# Vietnam Defence Forum



## Viet

I like this toast below that reflects many things, so I would like to begin with it:


_*"We are a school. We here are teachers, and students, and researchers. Many of us are in uniform with obligations to our defense and security establishments, but in the end we are a school with everything that entails&#8212;libraries, homework, computers, research, publications, and end-of-term grades. . . . We have this common understanding of the central importance of continuous learning, and that is what we should take as the central motivating force in our institutional relationship."*_

&#8212;Toast in honor of Vietnamese National Defense Academy Commandant General Vo Tien Trung offered by NDU President Vice Admiral Ann E. Rondeau, October 2011, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, DC.

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## Viet

*President Truong Tan Sang urges military academy to study modern warfare*
_By : Ban Bien Tap on September 18, 2012_

*President Truong Tan Sang asked the National Defence Academy to study deeply the global military science, especially modern and hi-tech warfare issues to advise the Party, State and the army and serve its training.*

He made the request when speaking at a ceremony to start the new academic year at the Academy in Hanoi on September 17.




_picture: VN President Truong Tan Sang_

While congratulating the academy&#8217;s staff and soldier and officer students on their new school year, President Sang also praised the academy for helping thousands of senior officials of the Party and State further improve their knowledge of defence and security matters.

The President underscored that successfully building and defending the Socialist Republic of Vietnam is the task and strategic goal of the country and the people.

Though peace, cooperation and development are the major trends in the world, there are still many complex changes, he noted, citing Southeast Asia as an example.

As a dynamically developing region, Southeast Asia is encountering factors that cause instability, especially sovereignty disputes in the East Sea between several regional countries, said the President.

He mentioned the hostile forces&#8217; acceleration of the &#8220;peaceful evolution&#8221; strategy, riots, &#8220;self-evolution&#8221;, &#8220;self-transformation&#8221; and their making use of the issues of democracy, human rights, nation and religion to sabotage national independence and socialism in Vietnam.

*Actions that violate the country&#8217;s sovereignty, islands, and territorial integrity are also developing complicatedly, he emphasised.
*
The State leader said that as the country&#8217;s and the army&#8217;s leading defence training and military science research centre, the Academy needs to further improve the quality of education and scientific research to produce regular, proficient and sharp-thinking officers for the country.

Sang also said he believes that the academy will continue to make more contributions to the national defence and construction in the future.

Source: VNA
President Truong Tan Sang urges military academy to study modern warfare | Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung

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## Viet

*Insignia of the General Staff*


Vietnam has 22 military academies training officers for all branches, agencies, units belongs to the Ministry of Defence.
*
High-ranking*

National Defense Academy of Vietnam

*Middle-ranking*

Dalat Army Academy
Military Political Academy
*
Other*

Air Defense - Air Force Academy
Border Defense Force Academy
College of National Military Industry
Le Quy Don Technical University or Military Technical Academy
Logistics Academy
Military Science Academy
Nguyen Hue University or 2nd Army Officer School
School of Artillery Officer
School of Chemistry Officer
School of Engineer Officer
School of Information Officer
School of Sappers Officer
School of Tank - Armored Officer
Tran Dai Nghia University or School of Military Engineering Officer Vinhempich
Tran Quoc Tuan University or 1st Army Officer School
University of Military Culture and Arts
University of Politics
Vietnam Air Force Officer Academy
Vietnam Military Medical Academy
Vietnam Naval Academy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_military_academies

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## Viet

Exchange visits between Vietnam&#8217;s National Defense Academy and US National Defense University






_NDU President Vice Admiral Ann Rondeau gives presentation to class at Vietnam&#8217;s National Defense Academy, April 2011. (Hanoi)_






_Vietnamese Army Lieutenant General Trung spoke to military and civilian leaders at NDU Washington, DC. on October 6, 2011._

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## Viet

_US Guided missile destroyer USS Lassen underway in the rough seas of the East China Sea
_


*U.S. Navy Cmdr. H.B. Le on USS Lassen (2009) - The first Viet-American Commander on a U.S. warship*













http://www.stripes.com/news/at-the-helm-of-a-u-s-warship-a-vietnam-refugee-comes-home-1.96180
...

Graduating from the US Naval Academy with merit in 1992, Le was designated as a surface warfare officer. Four ships and 17 years later, he finds himself leading one of the Navy&#8217;s premier warships back to a land of which he has few memories.

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## Viet

*Vietnam-made modern warship handed to Vung Tau*
_Tuoitrenews | Updated : Sat, October 6, 2012,12:33 PM (GMT+0700) _







_The HQ-273 ship | Photo: Tuoi Tre_

Brigade 171 of the Naval Zone II has received an advanced warship, HQ 273, one of the most modern warships to be made in Vietnam to date.

The reception was made at a ceremony held by the Brigade in Vung Tau City, Ba Ria-Vung Tau Province on Friday, October 5.

The HQ-273, the second artillery ship of the TT400TP class built by Ministry of Defense&#8217;s Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company, is equipped with modern weaponries including *AK 630 machine gun, surface-to-air missile system, and radar and enemy recognition systems*, said Colonel Mai Tien Tuyen, the political commissar of the High Command of Naval Zone II.






The ship, which is 54.16 meters long and 9.16 meters wide, has a maximum speed of 32 nautical miles per hour. It is able to continuously operate offshore for 30 days and nights at sustained winds of force 9 (76-87 kph). The ship has an operating range of 2,500 miles.

The vessel has maximum and average displacements of 446 and 413 tons respectively. It can operate in rough seas with winds of up to 75 kph, according to the ship builder.

HQ-273 had experienced eight quality tests at sea since June 2012 before it was handed over to the Vietnam People&#8217;s Navy on August 31. 










_The first artillery ship TT400TP, HQ-272, was unveiled on September 27 last year and delivered to the navy on January 16, 2012
_
The TT400TP was produced to undertake four missions: wipe out all enemy battleships, protect army bases of landing crafts, protect civilian vessels, and for patrolling purposes.

Speaking at the ceremony, Colonel Tuyen requested that naval soldiers use the warship effectively to fulfill their duties to defend Vietnam&#8217;s waters, islands and continental shelf.

As previously reported, Hong Ha handed over the HQ 272, Vietnam's first locally produced modern battleship, to the naval force on January 16, 2012. The company started building the ship in April 2009, using the state-of-the-art technology.

Vietnam-made modern warship handed to Vung Tau - Breaking news, sociey news from Vietnam on TuoiTreNews

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## Zero_wing

Good for Vietnam as long your not guning us anyway is your country planing to mass produce it large numbers replacing most of your old ships just like ours we are in process of replacing our old ship with more ship and i heard that we even send PN personnel to Vietnam since you made this ship any news on your end?

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## NiceGuy

Zero_wing said:


> Good for Vietnam as long your not guning us anyway is your country planing to mass produce it large numbers replacing most of your old ships just like ours we are in process of replacing our old ship with more ship and i heard that we even send PN personnel to Vietnam since you made this ship any news on your end?


Oh, you knew it ,too ?? Yes, your country wanna buy some VN high-speed patrol vessels to upgrade your navy, they're still considering

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## Viet

Since we can self produce this sort of gunboats at very low cost, mass production shouldn´t be a problem. If there is a demand.

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## veekysingh

good going guys

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## Hellraiser007

Add some carrier killer missiles to it

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## Viet

Hellraiser007 said:


> Add some carrier killer missiles to it



The gunboat is too small for carrying heavy antiship-missiles.

For destroying various types of amphibious warships including transport ships, destroyers and even *aircraft carrier* (range 300 km distance): our shore based SS-N-26 Yakhont missiles!

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## Asskicker

Viet said:


> The gunboat is too small for carrying heavy antiship-missiles.
> 
> For destroying various types of amphibious warships including transport ships, destroyers and even *aircraft carrier* (range 300 km distance): our shore based SS-N-26 Yakhont missiles!



You will be getting the Brahmos soon for those role.

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## Viet

Asskicker said:


> You will be getting the Brahmos soon for those role.



That would be nice. But I´m afraid that India won´t sell to Vietnam because your government fears Chinese counteraction.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Viet said:


> That would be nice. But I´m afraid that India won´t sell to Vietnam because your government fears Chinese counteraction.



I doubt that. The Brahmos sale is commercial, its not a strategic weapon.

Besides, If India sells 300 km Ballistic missiles or assists Vietnam in making Ballistic missiles of 1000km or above range , What is the worst China could do? China has already assisted Pakistan in nuclear and ballistic missile program.

Most likely Chinese response would be diplomatically presenting India as an irresponsible state creating tensions in South East Asia.

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## Hellraiser007

Viet said:


> That would be nice. But I´m afraid that India won´t sell to Vietnam because your government fears Chinese counteraction.



Vietnam and India share Trade and cultural relationship with each other. India and Vietnam strategic friendship is good for Asia. 

No mate, If China can arm Pakistan and provide arms why not India. India only returns the favor China did to Indian subcontinent.

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## Viet

Hellraiser007 said:


> Vietnam and India share Trade and cultural relationship with each other. India and Vietnam strategic friendship is good for Asia.
> 
> No mate, If China can arm Pakistan and provide arms why not India. India only returns the favor China did to Indian subcontinent.




Yeh! I wish India stands ground and does not back off because China says so and so and it is against this and that. We usually don´t care what others say.

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## Hellraiser007

Viet said:


> Yeh! I wish India stands ground and does not back off because China says so and so and it is against this and that. We usually don´t care what others say.




India is extensively engaging Vietnam and other south east asian nations with its look east policy. More and more cooperation in the field of trade and defence will be seen in the coming days.

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## Minjitta

With the cooperation of U S and Vietnam military, what experience does US will share with Vietnam?

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## Minjitta

Vietnam today are different than the past, of course not everything can change in short period. But for foreign relation, Vietnam building a trusted relationship with other countries throughout out the world. So in the near future Vietnam military will have more options.

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## Viet

Minjitta said:


> With the cooperation of U S and Vietnam military, what experience does US will share with Vietnam?



I see you are new in the forum. Before I respond, can you pls intruduce yourself?


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## Viet

*US National Defence University delegation visits Vietnam*
_Updated : Thu, October 11, 2012,11:21 AM (GMT+0700)_






_Sen. Lieut. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Minister of National Defence.Photo: PANO._

Deputy Defence Minister Senior Lieu. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh hosted a reception in Hanoi on October 10 for a visiting delegation from the US National Defence University.

Tthe two sides exchanged views on the issues of mutual concern and agreed that the two armies should further strengthen the defence cooperation in the time to come, especially in solving the consequences of the war, mine clearance, dioxin detoxication and humanitarian activities.

The two armies&#8217; education institutions should boost the cooperation in delegation exchange, personnel training, and teaching and studying experience sharing.

US National Defence University delegation visits Vietnam - Vietnam politics news - TuoiTreNews

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## Zero_wing

NiceGuy said:


> Oh, you knew it ,too ?? Yes, your country wanna buy some VN high-speed patrol vessels to upgrade your navy, they're still considering



Sir i thought it was skill program for the PN we want to build our own i think i think my country is trying to mass produce the Jacinto class (former Royal Navy peacock class) since have the blue prints for it. Because we want to copy the process on how your country ship was just done i believe it was done only $10 million (feel free to correct me if am wrong) in short we want to build our own ships with technical assistance from your country i don't know if they went there to buy your ships sir the article i read about it was only mentioning technical and skill assistance on ship repair and shipbuilding by one of your National shipbuilding company i think or is it still part of the Vietnamese Navy?


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## NiceGuy

Zero_wing said:


> Sir i thought it was skill program for the PN we want to build our own i think i think my country is trying to mass produce the Jacinto class (former Royal Navy peacock class) since have the blue prints for it. Because we want to copy the process on how your country ship was just done i believe it was done only $10 million (feel free to correct me if am wrong) in short we want to build our own ships with technical assistance from your country i don't know if they went there to buy your ships sir the article i read about it was only mentioning technical and skill assistance on ship repair and shipbuilding by one of your National shipbuilding company i think or is it still part of the Vietnamese Navy?


Base on VN news. 


> M&#7897;t s&#7889; ngu&#7891;n tin t&#7915; Manila cho bi&#7871;t Philippines c&#361;ng &#273;ang xem xét mua m&#7897;t h&#7841;m &#273;&#7897;i tàu tu&#7847;n tra trên bi&#7875;n có t&#7889;c &#273;&#7897; cao do Vi&#7879;t Nam phát tri&#7875;n v&#7899;i s&#7921; h&#7895; tr&#7907; công ngh&#7879; c&#7911;a Nga.
> BAODATVIET.VN | Philippines có ý



----------->


> sources from Manila said the Philippines also considers buying a fleet of Vietnam high-speed vessels developed with the support of Russia's technology.


btw: I can't find any clear news about that National shipbuilding company ,bro

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## ViXuyen

By 1404, we built 2-floor warships that would allow sailors from both floors of the ships to row the same paddle; hence increasing the speed of the ship during battle. By the late 1700's, we built ships that could pack 66 cannons. By 1830's, we were able to reverse engineer and build our first steam-powered ships. Let's revive our shipbuilding tradition

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## Zero_wing

NiceGuy said:


> Base on VN news.
> 
> 
> ----------->
> 
> btw: I can't find any clear news about that National shipbuilding company ,bro



Thank you i though it your country shipbuilding company anyway thanks for the info


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## Viet

Zero_wing said:


> Sir i thought it was skill program for the PN we want to build our own i think i think my country is trying to mass produce the Jacinto class (former Royal Navy peacock class) since have the blue prints for it. Because we want to copy the process on how your country ship was just done i believe it was done only *$10 million* (feel free to correct me if am wrong) in short we want to build our own ships with technical assistance from your country i don't know if they went there to buy your ships sir the article i read about it was only mentioning technical and skill assistance on ship repair and shipbuilding by one of your National shipbuilding company i think or is it still part of the Vietnamese Navy?




Gunboat costs ca. US$1 million Unarmed. I think it will take several years before we are capable to mass produce and export to other countries.

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## Viet

_Lieutenant General Trung of Vietnam&#8217;s National Defense Academy lectures to students and faculty at NDU (2011)- U.S. Army (Jose Velazquez)_







_Senior Lieutenant-General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Defence Minister, welcomed a delegation from the US National Defence University at the Defence Ministry Headquarters in Hanoi on October 10th 2012 _







Vietnam´s Ministry of Defence (Hanoi)

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## Viet

*RoK, Vietnam strengthen national defense cooperation*
_Thursday, May 17, 2012 (Voice of Vietnam)_





_Lieutenant General Tran Quang Khue receives Director of Korea National Defense University, Lieutenant General Shim Young Sik
_
(VOV)  Vietnam always attaches great importance to promoting the relations of solidarity and friendship with the Republic of Korea. This was confirmed by Lieutenant General Tran Quang Khue, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam Peoples Army, at a reception for the visiting delegation from the *Korea National Defense University* led by its Director, Lieutenant General Shim Young Sik, in Hanoi yesterday. General Khue spoke highly of effective cooperation in national defense through regular exchange visits and strategic dialogues at deputy minister level.

RoK, Vietnam strengthen national defense cooperation | News - VOV5

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## Viet

_Students at Center for National Defence Education, National University Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam) _

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## Minjitta

Israel's defense industry targets Vietnam

Israeli arms sales to Vietnam are small, but the potential is huge.
18 July 12 12:27, Yuval Azulai

Vietnam beckons Israel's defense industry. The Ministry of Defense's SIBAT Defense Export and Defense Cooperation is very interested in Vietnam, which has 6-8% annual GDP growth, but a large army with obsolete equipment. Top Israeli officials have been visiting Hanoi lately.
Six months ago, President Shimon Peres visited Vietnam with a large entourage. Ministry of Defense director general Udi Shani and SIBAT officials recently made a low-profile visit. Such visits, once rare, have been routine of late.
Since Israel and Vietnam established diplomatic relations in the mid-1990s, there have been few smiles and handshakes between officials of the two countries. The first signs of a change came in 2009, when Vietnam opened its embassy in Tel Aviv, giving practical effect to the diplomatic relations. Since then, Israelis have not stopped talking about Vietnam's potential. Although Vietnam will not be the country on which Israel's foreign trade will rise or fall, but in the defense field, there is business to be done. When Israel's main defense markets are experiencing an economic slowdown, America's former enemies can be a lucartive market for Israeli defense companies with goods sitting on the shelf.
Defense sources talk about agreements recently reached between top Ministry of Defense officials and their Vietnamese counterparts for the tightening of defense relations. On the business side, this is still far from the usual situation for the heads of Israeli defense companies, as the ministry still rejects proposals for the sale of advanced unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) to Israel's new friend. The sale of offensive weapons, such as advanced missiles and guided bombs, is still far off.
The conditions for trade in sensitive items are not yet ready. Personal relations of trust and intimacy are necessary for the sale of arms to a country and for the transfer of classified know-how that it will not anger other countries and allies.
Currently, Vietnam is also satisfied with much less, and is giving time for its romance with Israel time to develop, because the potential is in the future, while the courtship is in the present. Defense deals with Israel are for the supply defensive arms and the construction of a plant for advanced rifles, with the option for a general upgrade of obsolete Soviet-era tanks. Who knows, one day soon Israel may offer the Vietnam Army, which is seeking to upgrade its technological capabilities, advanced air defense systems.
Israel has several quite good air defense systems, and Vietnam knows this. Most of all, it knows about performance. "In the past couple of years, four or five Israeli defense companies have already made deals with Vietnam, reflecting the Ministry of Defense's policy to facilitate the entry into and consolidation in new markets," says a defense source who is familiar with Israel's developing relations with Vietnam, and is working on bringing them to the next level. "Until now, these transactions have totaled a few tens of millions of dollars, but the money isn't the issue at this stage; the potential is."
In September 2011, "Globes" revealed that Israel Weapons Industries Ltd. (IWI) (the Israel Military Industries Ltd. (IMI) light arms spinoff owned by Samy Katsav's SK Group) planned to build a light-arms plant in the Far East at an investment of more than $100 million. This plant would manufacture Israel's the AS advanced version of the Galil infantry rifle. It can now be revealed that the unnamed country is Vietnam, and a top defense official says that the complicated and difficult contract has been signed, and that construction will begin within a year. "This is a huge project, which will include construction of a new light-arms factory after the know-how is transferred from Israel. We're currently talking about a certain type of rifle, but the Vietnamese plant's operations may be expanded in future. Such a project anchors defense cooperation between the two countries," said the official.
Israel is not the only country seeking new markets for its defense industry. European companies have also discovered Vietnam and its potential. "Everyone in the global defense industry is spitting blood in the current situation. We see this on the ground. I believe that American defense companies will soon want to get a foothold in this market," the defense official said.
Published by Globes [online], Israel business news - Globes - Israel business news - on July 18, 2012
© Copyright of Globes Publisher Itonut (1983) Ltd. 2012
Also On Globes

Israel's defense industry targets Vietnam - Globes

SCS dispute going to cross the region a lot of $$$ on military hardware, not a good sign for the region, but I guess Vietnam got to what necessary to protect herself just like any other countries. Thanks China for pushing Vietnam, Philipines toward US.

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## Zero_wing

Viet said:


> Gunboat costs ca. US$1 million Unarmed. I think it will take several years before we are capable to mass produce and export to other countries.



Well i stand corrected thank you for the info


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## Viet

production rate at present: 2 ships per year

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## Tshering22

Good luck Vietnam! This is a slow development into what could make you the Korea of Southeast Asia. Keep working hard and never lose sight of your goal; self-reliance, national integrity and respect. 

I wish our government could assist you in military projects.

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## notte

Could the mod merge Vietnamese threads into just several ones? It is kind of annoying, if every post in China economic news is worth a thread then we would be flooded with waste. And it is hard to follow.

Suggest many threads could be merged into one with a name: Vietnam military news & update

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Israeli arm sales to Vietnam has been limited



> Transfers of major conventional weapons: sorted by recipient. Deals with deliveries or orders made for year range 1950 to 2011
> Note: The &#8216;No. delivered/produced&#8217; and the &#8216;Year(s) of deliveries&#8217; columns refer to all deliveries since the beginning of the contract. Deals in which the recipient was involved in the production of the weapon system are listed separately. The &#8216;Comments&#8217; column includes publicly reported information on the value of the deal. Information on the sources and methods used in the collection of the data, and explanations of the conventions, abbreviations and acronyms, can be found at URL <http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/at_data.html>. The SIPRI Arms Transfers Database is continuously updated as new information becomes available.
> Source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database
> Information generated: 14 October 2012
> 
> 
> Recipient/ Year	Year(s)	No.
> supplier (S)	No.	Weapon	Weapon	of order/	of	delivered/
> or licenser (L)	ordered	designation	description	licence	deliveries	produced	Comments
> 
> 
> Viet Nam
> S: Israel	(5)	RAM	APV	(2006)	2006-2007	(5)	For police; RAM-2000 version

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## Minjitta

notte said:


> Could the mod merge Vietnamese threads into just several ones? It is kind of annoying, if every post in China economic news is worth a thread then we would be flooded with waste. And it is hard to follow.
> 
> Suggest many threads could be merged into one with a name: Vietnam military news & update



*You can't stand the heats, then get the h..ll out of the kitchen*.


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## Minjitta

Tshering22 said:


> Good luck Vietnam! This is a slow development into what could make you the Korea of Southeast Asia. Keep working hard and never lose sight of your goal; self-reliance, national integrity and respect.
> 
> I wish our government could assist you in military projects.


Vietnam got no other choice but move up.


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## karan21

Isrealis are very pro active in this field, that is why they have become the top 5 defence exporter in world. But I think Even India should now concentrate on Vietnam. We can give them so many things. Some of them:





























More over a jv in shipbuilding for navy can happen.

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## karan21

Isrealis are very pro active in this field, that is why they have become the top 5 defence exporter in world. But I think Even India should now concentrate on Vietnam. We can give them so many things. 





More over a jv in shipbuilding for navy can happen.

Isrealis are very pro active in this field, that is why they have become the top 5 defence exporter in world. But I think Even India should now concentrate on Vietnam. We can give them so many things. Some of them:















More over a jv in shipbuilding for navy can happen.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

karan21 said:


> Isrealis are very pro active in this field, that is why they have become the top 5 defence exporter in world. But I think Even India should now concentrate on Vietnam. We can give them so many things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More over a jv in shipbuilding for navy can happen.
> 
> Isrealis are very pro active in this field, that is why they have become the top 5 defence exporter in world. But I think Even India should now concentrate on Vietnam. We can give them so many things. Some of them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More over a jv in shipbuilding for navy can happen.



Many of Indian weapons are customized for Indian needs, and there are often Cheaper alternatives are available from Russia.

In terms of space-cooperation India can help Vietnam alot as ISRO is very cost-effective and cheaper.

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## karan21

wanglaokan said:


> Delay of P15 make its a floating garbage in the water, help others after you could manage your own business. Vietnam dont need your Brahmos, cause they already posessed blah blah 55 bombs.





IF P15 is delayed doesnt mean that we can have a joint viet- India shipbuilding platform. India produces world class fast attack crafts for its coast guard. In last 3 yrs more than 30 have been inducted and more 100 are being built. Corvettes, frigates, combat vehicles, radars, combat helicopters etc etc. So many things are there. Just one destroyer program delay can't be used to generalize anything.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

xuxu1457 said:


> are you kidding, can you think Chinese can take video on VN ships to take photos of Vietnam shooting at war???????
> 
> an you have Su30, but who guard these Su30, soilders with broken and old 56 type gun, which sent by China at early time



Why do you like enjoying the picture above edited and assembled by photoshop?

Enjoy the real photos that are not edited by photoshop:

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

bhisma said:


> Post reported, lets see what our unpartial mods has to say..
> @topic : What happened to brahmos deal, is it still on paper or secretly transfered to vietnam..??
> .
> *And why vietnam is not upgrading their su-30 to mk2 or mki standard... those old fighter will be easy targets for chinese MKK..*



Yes, friend, all the Su-30 that Vietnam has bought which are Su-30MK2(V)



> The Sukhoi Su-30MKK (NATO reporting name: Flanker-G)[1] is a modification of the Su-27 SK manufactured since 1999 by KnAAPO and Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. It is considered an upgraded version of Sukhoi Su-30. It was jointly developed by Russia and China, similar to the Su-30MKI. It is a heavy class, all-weather, long-range strike fighter, comparable to the American F-15E. *Su-30MK2 is a further improvement to SU-30MKK with upgraded avionics and maritime strike capabilities*. The MKK and MK2 are currently operated by the People's Republic of China, the Indonesian Air Force, the Vietnam People's Air Force, the Uganda People's Defence Force,[2] and very recently, the Venezuelan Air Force.[3]


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## Minjitta

Zero_wing said:


> Strong words from the chinese imperialist but its all empty threats try and your country will burn



Containment will burn China from inside out.


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## Minjitta

wanglaokan said:


> I mean you cant indulge in JV and buying weapons. Vietnam tech is nothing but a peice of crap withou Russian help. India is a more powerful and independant country, think it twice before your movement. Personally, i am ok with Indian. As to Vietnam, not interested.


What a wimp, India and the rest of Asia just wanted China taste it own meditation. If China cant handle the punch then don't give one.


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## Hellraiser007

Minjitta said:


> What a wimp, India and the rest of Asia just wanted China taste it own meditation. If China cant handle the punch then don't give one.




India is also interested in exporting defense products of its own mate


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## Minjitta

Hellraiser007 said:


> India is also interested in exporting defense products of its own mate



Good for India, seen like none of China's weaponry battle tested. Remember some China tank export to one of South America country and got reject due to the tank can't handle in battle situation. I forgot that name country brought these Chinese tank, also they can't return to China due to the shipping cost, so beware with Chinese military weapon. Hate to go to war with unstable weapons from China, no wonder Chinese leaders playing tongue war.

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## AViet

Hellraiser007 said:


> India is also interested in exporting defense products of its own mate



You think Vietnam is so primitive to import defence equipment from India, who do not know how to make an decent assault rifle for their army. Dream on.

For first 8 months this year, Vietnam's equipment and machinery export to India double that of import from India. The biggest export items from Vietnam to India are telephone and accessories (243 millions), equipment and machinery (154 millions), while the biggest import items from India to Vietnam are corn (247 millions) and animal feed (199 millions). 

8 tháng, Vi

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Minjitta said:


> Good for India, seen like *none of China's weaponry battle tested. *Remember some China tank export to one of South America country and got reject due to the tank can't handle in battle situation. I forgot that name country brought these Chinese tank, also they can't return to China due to the shipping cost, so beware with Chinese military weapon. Hate to go to war with unstable weapons from China, no wonder Chinese leaders playing tongue war.



I think you"re wrong here. Many Chinese weapons are battle tested.

the most recent would Chinese cruise missile exported Iran, fired by Hezbollah on an Israeli Ship.

Chinese weapons were found to robust in the 1st and 2nd Gulf wars.

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## NiceGuy

AViet said:


> You think Vietnam is so primitive to import defence equipment from India, who do not know how to make an decent assault rifle for their army. Dream on.
> 
> For first 8 months this year, Vietnam's equipment and machinery export to India double that of import from India. The biggest export items from Vietnam to India are telephone and accessories (243 millions), equipment and machinery (154 millions), while the biggest import items from India to Vietnam are corn (247 millions) and animal feed (199 millions).
> 
> 8 tháng, Vi


Be polite, dude, how many more times do you wanna show your hostile attitude toward our friend ??

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## Viet

AViet said:


> You think Vietnam is so primitive to import defence equipment from India, who do not know how to make an decent assault rifle for their army. Dream on.
> 
> For first 8 months this year, Vietnam's equipment and machinery export to India double that of import from India. The biggest export items from Vietnam to India are telephone and accessories (243 millions), equipment and machinery (154 millions), while the biggest import items from India to Vietnam are corn (247 millions) and animal feed (199 millions).
> 
> 8 tháng, Vi




Bro, India plays a corner stone in our defence stragegy.

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## Minjitta

Syama Ayas said:


> I think you"re wrong here. Many Chinese weapons are battle tested.
> 
> the most recent would Chinese cruise missile exported Iran, fired by Hezbollah on an Israeli Ship.
> 
> Chinese weapons were found to robust in the 1st and 2nd Gulf wars.



We all know what happen in the 2 Gulf wars, that show very little if any success for China military weapons.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

> 19:37 17/10/2012ALL NEWS
> *Putin calls for taking military-technical cooperation with BRICS to new level*
> 
> NOVO OGAREVO, October 17 (Itar-Tass) &#8212;&#8212; President Vladimir Putin called for raising military-technical cooperation with partner countries from the BRICS Group &#8211; Brazil, India, China, and South Africa &#8211; and also with Vietnam to a new level.
> *Putin said Vietnam is &#8220;one of the trusted partners of Russia&#8221; with which &#8220;we are intensifying military-technical cooperation after some pause in the 1990s&#8221;*.



ITAR-TASS : Putin calls for taking military-technical cooperation with BRICS to new level

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## Viet

I believe this news is not posted yet.


*
Vietnam builds two new warships *
_Last Updated: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 01:50:00_

Vietnam&#8217;s Navy has ordered two new warships to help bolster national defense. The Navy Command on Monday signed order contracts with shipbuilding companies Hong Ha and Ba Son, both of which operate under the National Defense Industry Corporation.

One of them will be a TT400TP-class patrol boat, and the other a Project 1241.8 missile corvette, news website Dat Viet reported.





TT400TP-class patrol boat





Tarantul 1241.8 missile corvette

Admiral Nguyen Van Ninh, deputy head of the Navy Command, said the new equipment is part of plans to build Vietnam a more professional, modern and elite navy for new situations.

Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | Vietnam builds two new warships

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## Viet

Navy


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## Viet

Infantry





Border Defence





Airforce





Marine Police





Marine Corps

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## Viet

I accidentally found it. The news below is one year old, but that is still worth reading.
Interesting that Vietnamese Army delegates visited the heart of Chinese defence in Beijing.





*Vietnamese army delegation visits Chinese army unit*
Posted on SEPTEMBER 16, 2011 Written by QDND - Talk Vietnam

PANO  During the working visit to China, the Vietnamese high-ranking military political delegation, led by Lieutenant-General Ngo Xuan Lich, Head of the General Politics Department visited the Tank-Armoured Division 6, under the Beijing Military Zone of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army on September 16th.





_Vietnamese delagates visit the Tank-Armoured Division 6_

*Division 6, one of the important units of the Beijing Military Zone, is entrusted to defend the Chinese Capital of Beijing*, conduct combat readiness and take part in parades on the nations great festival days.

At the working session, Colonel Su Rong, Division Commander, gave Lieutenant-General Lich and other delegates a briefing on the Divisions history and current development. The Division was set up in September, 1968 and now has three Tank- Armoured, one self- propelled artillery and one air-defence regiments with over 8,000 troops. Besides, it is also has other subordinated units of reconnaissance, information, sapper and missile.

After receiving the brief and visiting the Divisions Training Imitation Centre, showroom and troops quarters, Lieutenant-General Lich praised the Chinese unit for its training and combat readiness spirit, especially its application of modern information and technologies to the training tasks. He also wished all troops and leaders of the Division would gain more achievements in the coming time and the friendly and comprehensive ties between two nations Parties, Governments, people and Armies would remain steadfast.

Translated by Van Hieu


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## Viet

*Australian warship visits Ho Chi Minh City*
Minh Phát | 
Updated : Mon, October 29, 2012,3:19 PM (GMT+0700) | tuoitrenews.vn





_The Australian frigate HMAS Sydney, which is now Gulf-bound. Photo: LSPH Damian Pawlenko/RAN._





_HMAS Sydney at New York City in 2009_

The Australian warship HMAS Sydney is now on a goodwill visit to Ho Chi Minh City from October 29 to November 3 to enhance ties between Australia and Vietnam, as well as to strengthen the relationship between the two naval forces.

The crew of 35 officers and 194 sailors on the guided missile frigate are expected to conduct a professional exchange on ship-borne helicopter operations, participate in a friendly sporting activity with cadets at the Naval Technical College tomorrow, and play football at the RMIT University in the city on Wednesday.

On Friday, the Australian seamen will greet physically-challenged children of Binh Minh special school, which is supported by LORETO Vietnam-Australia Program.

Captain Matthew Dudley, Australian Defence Attaché in Vietnam, said, &#8220;This is an excellent opportunity to build upon the Australian Vietnam Defence cooperation relationship that commenced in 1999 and has recently been reaffirmed at the meeting between our two Defence Ministers in Hanoi in August 2012.&#8221;
*
&#8220;Since 1999, the Australian Defence Force has trained over 1,200 Vietnamese People&#8217;s Army officers in Vietnam and Australia,&#8221; *he added.

The 4,200 ton ship is commanded by Captain Luke Charles-Jones, Royal Australian Navy. The ship can cover different roles including air defence, anti-submarine warfare, surveillance, and reconnaissance.

HMAS Sydney is armed with surface-to-air missiles, anti-ship missiles, anti-missile system and torpedo tubes.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

*Deepening Vietnam-Russia defence cooperation*
Q&#272;ND - Monday, October 29, 2012, 20:17 (GMT+7)

PANO &#8211; &#8220;Vietnam is one of Russia&#8217;s dear and faithful friends, so Russia always attaches importance to further strengthening its relations with Vietnam,&#8221; Russian Defence Minister Anatoly Serdvukove affirmed, when receiving a Vietnamese high-ranking military delegation led by Chief of the General Staff, Deputy Defence Minister, Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty.

The Vietnamese defence delegation paid an official friendly visit to Russia from October 20th-26th. 

At the reception, the Russian Defence Minister highly valued the results of the working session between the Chiefs of General Staff of the two Armies, and expressed his support for the agreements between the two sides.

Earlier, Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty leading the Vietnamese military delegation, worked with a Russian high-ranking military delegation headed by Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, Deputy Defence Minister, General Makarov Nicolai Egorovich.

During the session, the host affirmed that the visit of the Vietnamese delegation contributed to consolidating and boosting the traditional friendly ties and comprehensive cooperation between the two States, peoples and Armies.

Meanwhile, the guest confirmed that the Vietnamese Party, State and Army attached special importance to the long-stranding friendly relationship between Vietnam and Russia. He also highlighted the comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries, which has seen great developments in every aspect.
...

Deepening Vietnam-Russia defence cooperation - People

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## Viet

Vietnamese Navy
Pauk class corvette BPS-500 (Anti-submarine)

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## Viet

*Cam Ranh port will not become foreign military base *
Wednesday, 03 November 2010 08:25 | Info Vietnam






Minister of Defence Phung Quang Thanh


Confirming that Vietnam&#8217;s Cam Ranh port in the central province of Khanh Hoa will not become a foreign military base but *Minister of Defence*, General Phung Quang Thanh, said that a logistics center will be built to supply services for both domestic and foreign ships.

VietNamNet takes note the talk between *General Thanh* and correspondents on the sideline of the National Assembly session on November 1.

In the press conference after the 17th ASEAN Summit, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung disclosed the plan to build a logistical center at the Cam Ranh port, which will provide logistical services based on the market mechanism to naval vessels from all countries, including submarines. Could you give more details about this plan?

Vietnam&#8217;s navy has been modernizing to defend the country&#8217;s sea sovereignty so we need a logistical center to repair and maintain naval ships.

However, it will be a big waste if this logistics center only serves Vietnam&#8217;s naval ships because the investment in this project is very large. Therefore, the Cam Ranh port will be also opened for cargo or naval vessels from other countries, under Vietnam&#8217;s management regulations.

Vietnam is preparing for this project. We may have to hire foreign consultants. For example, if we buy Russian technology, we will have to hire some Russian experts.

*What is the attitude of countries in the region?*

Regional countries don&#8217;t have any reaction because this is part of our sovereignty. Countries in the region (including China) have opened deep-ports, which work as logistical centers for foreign ships. US ships also use these services.

*How about the scale and capacity of this logistic centre?*

We are designing this project and negotiating to hire Russian consultants. There will have many other procedures that must be realized before the project is submitted to relevant agencies for approves.

At this moment, I can&#8217;t say about the scale and the total investment in this project. However, this centre will mainly serve small repair, not overhaul because overhaul is often conducted at the shipyards where ships are built.

*How can Vietnam keep military secrets and ensure national defense and security when this logistical center is built?*

This center will be opened for technological logistical services only, not for Vietnamese naval ships so it will not affect Vietnam&#8217;s military secrets. This will also not a foreign military base and will not be leased as foreign logistical centre.

*Why does Vietnam select Russian consultants and equipment?*

It is easy to understand. Vietnam&#8217;s weapons and military equipment were mainly provided by Russia. We will also buy new weapons from Russia.

Russia is Vietnam&#8217;s strategic and reliable partner and Russian weapons are modern and have reasonable prices. Moreover, Vietnam is familiar with Russian weapons.

I believe that it will be cheaper for hiring Russian consultants and purchasing Russian technology than those from Western countries.
*
Will Vietnam supply submarine repairing services?*

This base will repair submarines, civil and military vessels. Aircraft carriers are special vessels that we are unable to repair now.

*When will the logistical center at Cam Ranh Port be built? How are the human resources for it?*

We need at least three years to build this center. This project is currently at the starting phase. We plan to train sailors, engineers and technicians overseas.

*Apart from economic interests, how Vietnam benefit from this logistic centre?*

Besides economic purpose, the establishment of this center will enable the exchange of the navy between Vietnam and other countries. We can learn from the experience in repairing and maintaining naval vessels, etc. from other countries because we still lack experience necessary to modernize the navy.

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## Viet

*Sweden helps Vietnam manufacture UAVs*
11/20/2012 6:11:00 PM | The Voice Of Vietnam








VOV) - Sweden will help Vietnam manufacture unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) in accordance with an agreement signed by the *Vietnam Aerospace Association* (VAA) and the *Swedish Unmanned Group *in Hanoi on November 20.

The two sides concurred on dividing the project into three phases.

In the *first phase*, Sweden will provide equipment and funds for the manufacture and assembly of two UAV *Magic Eye 1s *. The stage includes sharing intellectual property rights and design samples and dispatching experts to assist Vietnam.

In the *second phase*, the two sides will cooperate in developing aviation electronics such as automatic drive mechanisms and monitoring cameras.

In the *third phase*, Vietnam and Sweden will conclude manufacturing and begin exporting the completed UAVs.

VAA President Nguyen Duc Cuong said UAVs are widely used around the world in *national defence*, security, search and rescue, forest protection and management, geological surveying, agro-forestry and fisheries services, and high-tension wire inspections. UAVs are most commonly deployed for* long distance surveillance*.

With more than 1 million sq.km of sea, nearly 3,500 km of coastlines, over 4,500km of land borders, and mountainous regions spanning two-third of the land area, the potential utility of UAVs in Vietnam is great. The technology will support map drawing, transport development, and aerial image capturing. It will also be used to monitor high-tension wires and to augment border patrols and search and rescue activities.

More than 40 countries are currently capable of manufacturing UAVs.

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## Viet

*US naval ship docks at Cam Ranh Bay*
11/20/2012 6:26:37 PM | voice of vietnam








(VOV) - The *USNA Alan Shepard *(T-AKE4) docked at Cam Ranh Bay on November 20 and is scheduled to remain at the Cam Ranh Shipyard for maintenance until November 26.

The 41,000 tonne logistic ship, grouped under the US Fleet in the Asia-Pacific region, is 210m long and more than 30m wide.

Thanks to its naturally appropriate conditions and geographic position, six US logistic ships have been repaired at Cam Ranh Shipyard since 2010. Bui Huu Sy, the shipyard&#8217;s Director General, said the facility mainly provides basic maintenance and equipment repairs.

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## Viet

*Deputy Commander of US Pacific Command visits Vietnam*
11/20/2012 9:27:12 AM | voice of vietnam






_Lieutenant General Thomas Conant | picture: internet
_
(VOV) -The Vietnamese and American armies should accelerate cooperation in rescue, army medical service, addressing post-war consequences, maritime security and ship repairing in the near future, high-raking officials from both nations have said.

Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army, *Lieutenant General Vo Van Tuan*, and Deputy Commander of United States Pacific Command, *Lieutenant General Thomas Conant*, shared the view at a meeting in Hanoi on November 19. They suggested the two national armies increase delegation exchanges, experience sharing and cooperation in areas of mutual interest.

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> *US naval ship docks at Cam Ranh Bay*
> 11/20/2012 6:26:37 PM | voice of vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (VOV) - The *USNA Alan Shepard *(T-AKE4) docked at Cam Ranh Bay on November 20 and is scheduled to remain at the Cam Ranh Shipyard for maintenance until November 26.
> 
> The 41,000 tonne logistic ship, grouped under the US Fleet in the Asia-Pacific region, is 210m long and more than 30m wide.
> 
> Thanks to its naturally appropriate conditions and geographic position, six US logistic ships have been repaired at Cam Ranh Shipyard since 2010. Bui Huu Sy, the shipyard&#8217;s Director General, said the facility mainly provides basic maintenance and equipment repairs.



I like this. 
This cooperation will benefit both sides: Vietnamese workers receive jobs and money while US receive needed services for their navy in the region...

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## Viet

*First Vietnam-Japan strategic defence dialogue*
11/26/2012 5:01:22 PM | The Voice of Vietnam








(VOV) - Vietnam and Japan will increase cooperation on national defence through delegation exchange and training. They will also share experience in international peacekeeping deployments, bomb and mine clearance and naval medicine.

The agreement was reached at the first deputy ministerial-level strategic dialogue in Hanoi on November 26 between Vietnamese Deputy National Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and his Japanese counterpart Hironori Kanazawa.

They held that the two sides will continue supporting each other at multilateral forums, such as the ASEAN Defence Ministers' Meeting Plus (ADMM+) and the ASEAN Regional Forum Plus (ARF+), and *seek peaceful solutions to sea and island sovereignty disputes in line with international law.*

They will create a roadmap for dialogues, mechanisms, and methods implementing the initiatives the two defence ministers signed in October 2011, helping to reinforce the *Vietnam-Japan strategic partnership*.

Both host and guest concurred that the bilateral relations between their respective nations are entering a new period of development - a period in which national defence cooperation and the strategic partnership will play crucial roles.

Through exchange visits at all levels, the two countries have established mutual trust and understanding and given impetus to effective and practical cooperation on national defence.

Hironori Kanazawa and his diplomatic retinue met with National Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh on the same day. The delegation is also scheduled to visit Air Defence and Air Force Service B.61, the Vietnam Military History Museum, and the President Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum.

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## Zero_wing

NiceGuy said:


> Oh, you knew it ,too ?? Yes, your country wanna buy some VN high-speed patrol vessels to upgrade your navy, they're still considering



We send some naval technicians and engineers in one of your countries national shipyards but i think we would be taking the Croatia and Canadian naval technology but we are also taking from Italy and Japan so maybe not just naval but the military technologies of this countries i just dont know no info as been given yet.

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## Viet

First Image of the Kilo Submarine for Vietnam Navy

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## Viet

*History of Vietnam wars through 10 famous battles*
Thanks to HieuNguyen


*1. Battle of Bach Dang (938)*






*2. Battle of Nhu Nguyet (1077)*






*
3. Battle of Dong Bo Dau (1258)*






*4. Battle of Bach Dang II (1288)*





*
5. Battle of Chi Lang - Xuong Giang (1427)*

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## Viet

*6. Battle of R&#7841;ch Ngam Xoai Mut (1785)*






*7. Battle of Ngoc Hoi &#8211; Dong Da (1789)*






*8. Dien Bien Phu Campaign (1954)*





*
9. Battle of Dien Bien Phu in the air (1972)*






*10. Ho Chi Minh Campaign (1975)*

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Vietnamese Navy
> Pauk class corvette BPS-500 (Anti-submarine)


I think you got it from wiki!? It's wrong, that ship just build for anti-ship, patrol, fire support missions.

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## Viet

*Italian Defence Minister welcomed in Hanoi*
Updated : 1/10/2013 7:19:42 PM Voice of Vietnam








(VOV) - Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has voiced his support for Vietnam-Italy cooperation in national defence, considering this a concrete pillar in the future *strategic partnership* between the two countries.

Receiving Italian Defence Minister Giampaolo Di Paola in Hanoi on January 10, Dung proposed that both Ministries of Defence increase the exchange of delegations and cooperation in human resource training and shipbuilding.

Both sides need to strengthen cooperation in the areas of their strength, as well as at international forums, said the PM.

For his part, Giampaolo Di Paola stressed that Italy attaches importance to boosting cooperative relations with Vietnam, especially in *economics, trade, investment and national defence.*

Italy is willing to cooperate with Vietnam in personnel training and *shipbuilding for national defence purposes*, he said.

Both host and guest underlined the importance of maintaining peace, stability, security and maritime safety in the East Sea, and settling any sea disputes through peaceful means and according to international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (*UNCLOS*), and the Declaration of Conduct of the Parties (DOC) in the East Sea towards building a common Code of Conduct (*COC*) in the region.

During talks held earlier the same day, Minister of Defence Phung Quang Thanh and his Italian counterpart Giampaolo Di Paola agreed to increase the exchange of delegations and develop human resources for the Vietnam Peoples Army.

They agreed to sign a memorandum of understanding on *national defence cooperation* between the two countries in the near future.


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## Viet

*PM visits air defense missile battalion*
_1/14/2013 10:09:58 AM Voice of Vietnam
_





Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung visited air defense missile battalion 64 of the Airforce Service&#8217;s division 361 on January 13, calling on officers and soldiers to stay prepared for combat in any situation.

*Division 361 is responsible for protecting the airspace of Hanoi and the northern region.
*
It was a key force in the 12-day battle against the US B52 bombing of Hanoi, which resulted in a victory dubbed &#8220;Dien Bien Phu in the air&#8221; in December 1972. The division was involved in over 1,800 battles between 1965 and 1970 and shot down 591 enemy airplanes, including 35 B52s.






Today, the battalion has been equipped with an *S-300 PMU 1* system, which can detect targets at a distance of 300km and raze targets from a distance of 5km to 150km at a height of between 10m and 27,000m.

PM Dung lauded both the division and the battalion&#8217;s efforts to acquire modern weapons and be ready for action, saying this helped maintain the country&#8217;s peace, independence and sovereignty.

He also asked the officers and soldiers to improve their professional skills, utilize advanced technology and create skillful combat plans to be well prepared for any situation. The Party and State will strive to equip the army with modern equipment, the PM said.


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## Viet

*Vietnam, US hold national defence dialogue*
1/14/2013 2:23:59 PM Voice of Vietnam





_Vietnam and the US agreed to strengthen national defence cooperation (Photo: mod.gov.vn)_

(VOV) - The* third dialogue on national defence policy *between Vietnam and the US was held in Hanoi on January 11.

The Vietnamese delegation was led by Deputy Minister of Defence Nguyen Chi Vinh, and the US delegation was headed by Vikram Singh, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for South and Southeast Asia.

Both sides exchanged views on a number of issues related to bilateral cooperation in national defence, as well as security in the Asia-Pacific region and the rest of the world.

They reviewed progress made in five areas stated in the memorandum of understanding (MOU) on national defence cooperation signed in September 2011.

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## Viet

*Vietnam-France defence cooperation committee convenes*
_09:45 | 10/01/2013 dangcongsan.vn_







The* third meeting of the Vietnam-France Joint Committee* on National Defence Cooperation was held in Hanoi on January 9.

Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Vietnamese Deputy Minister of National Defence, and Senior Lieutenant General Gratien Maire, Deputy Chief of Staff of the French Army, co-chaired the meeting.

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## Viet

*UK Defence Under Secretary of State visits Vietnam
*_1/26/2013 8:33:20 AM Voice of Vietnam_








(VOV) - UK Defence Under Secretary of State *Lord Astor of Hever* began a five-day visit to Vietnam on January 26 at the invitation of Deputy Minister of Defence Nguyen Chi Vinh.

He will hold talks with Vinh and pay a courtesy visit to *Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh *on defence cooperation between the two countries.

Lord Astor and Vinh will witness the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding on *hydrographic cooperation *between the UK Hydrographic Office and the Vietnamese Navy.

The UK defence official will visit a number of Vietnamese military zones and training establishments.

&#8220;*Vietnam *is an increasingly important actor on the international stage and the UK welcomes the closer ties that we are developing with this region of the world,&#8221; Lord Astor told the press prior to his visit.

He revealed that he will open a defence industry forum to improve understanding about how UK companies might apply their experience and expertise to assist Vietnam in addressing its future defence requirements.

Earlier this month, *Rolls Royce* signed a contract to supply stabilisers to the Vietnamese Navy, which sends a strong signal about Vietnam&#8217;s potential.

&#8220;I hope that the trade mission accompanying my visit will help other UK companies to explore emerging opportunities in this exciting market,&#8221; he said.

Lord Astor will also visit the British Council in Hanoi where he will open the second phase of an intensive programme of English language training to support peacekeeping for the *Institute of Defence and International Relations*. The training, which is funded by the UK Ministry of Defence, is part of a wider package of defence related support agreed following the signing of the MoU on defence in November 2011.

Vietnam and the UK established the *strategic partnership* and signed the Memorandum of Understanding on defence cooperation.

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## Soryu

I think you shall create a Thread for info about defence and military event, affair of Vietnam. It's good better than create new theard per event.


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> I think you shall create a Thread for info about defence and military event, affair of Vietnam. It's good better than create new theard per event.



I believed this visit is important for a new thread as the visitor comes from UK.

You may be right, it may be better to put such news into the existing Vietnam military thread. BTW let me create one for Vietnam's Foreign Affairs since we expect more on this field.

@Hu Songshan
can you pls merge this thread into the existing Vietnam military thread? Thanks.

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## EastSea

*Vietnam values ties with UK*

Vietnam values the development of ties with the UK as it sees the European country as its leading partner and gives the country a priority in its foreign policy. 

Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made the affirmation while meeting with Crown Prince Charles in London on January 23 during his official visit to the country. 

He said the visit will help develop bilateral relations in a more practical and effective manner. 

Prince Charles said the visit, which is taking place in the year the two countries are celebrating their 40 th anniversary of diplomatic ties, will create a strong momentum for future relations between the two countries. 

The two sides expressed their pleasure with the developing relations, and suggested that the two countries increase the exchange of high-level delegations, promote cooperation in economics, trade and investment, and create favourable conditions for businesses from both sides. 

They also agreed that bilateral cooperation in education-training, culture and tourism needs to be further developed in the future. 

The Prince expressed his wish to strengthen cooperation with Vietnam in agricultural production, seafood exploitation, forestry development, and increase the protection of the environment and wild animals. 

Prince Charles accepted Trong&#8217;s invitation to visit Vietnam . 

On the same day, Trong joined an informal party with UK Foreign Secretary William Hague, during which they discussed practical issues to boost bilateral ties. 

During the visit, Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and other officials accompanying the Party leader had a discussion with the UK-Vietnam Friendship Parliamentarians&#8217; Group on Vietnam &#8217;s situation and the outcomes of the country&#8217;s renewal process. 

The delegation also attended the opening ceremony of a UK House of Commons session and heard Prime Minister David Cameron speak to the House. 

The same day, Deputy PM Phuc and the Vietnamese delegation met Roger Gifford, the Lord Mayor of the City of London , and UK business representatives. 

Phuc applauded the significant contributions the City of London has made to the UK economy, and said the city will play an important role in fostering economic, trade and investment ties between Vietnam and the UK . 

He said he hopes more enterprises from the UK will start to operate in Vietnam , especially in the fields of high technology and infrastructure development, and share banking experiences with their Vietnamese partners. 

Vietnam will create favourable conditions for UK investors to seek business opportunities in Vietnam , he affirmed. 

Following the Vietnamese delegation&#8217;s departure from the UK , Party General Secretary Trong sent a message to the UK &#8217;s Prime Minister conveying his thanks and impressions to him, the Royal Family, the Government and people of the UK , for the warm welcome the delegation received. 

He expressed his belief that the strategic partnership between the two countries will promote cooperation and benefit people from both countries./.VNA

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## Viet

*Vietnam, UK strengthen national defence ties*
Updated : 1/29/2013 12:29:58 PM Voice of Vietnam

(VOV) - Senior-Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, Chief-of-the-General-Staff cum Deputy Defence Minister, on January 28 received UK Defence Under Secretary of State Lord Astor of Hever during his working visit to Vietnam from Jan. 26-30.





_Vice Admiral Pham Ngoc Minh and Rear Admiral Tom Karsten Tom Karsten signed a cooperation agreement between the Vietnam People's Navy and the United Kingdom Hydrographic Office (UKHO)._

Ty spoke highly of the fruitful cooperation in national defence between Vietnam and the UK, regarding Lord Astor&#8217;s visit as the first by a senior official of the UK Ministry of Defence since the two countries established diplomatic ties four decades ago.

The UK defence official pledged to do his best to foster bilateral relations, especially defence ties. He asked the Vietnamese Defence Ministry to promote regular exchanges between the two naval forces.

Lord Astor briefed his host on his talks with Vietnam&#8217;s Deputy Minister of Defence Nguyen Chi Vinh before the opening of the *Vietnam-UK Defence Business Forum* in Hanoi.

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## Viet

*Vietnam´s Prime Minister inspects Su-30MK2 aircraft*
_Tuoitrenews| Updated : Sun, January 27, 2013,1:08 PM (GMT+0700)_






_Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung pictured in the cabin of a Su-30MK2 when he visited Yen The Air Force Division in Thanh Hoa province together with Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh on January 26 2013. Photo: TTXVN_


Vietnams Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh Saturday visited Yen The Air Force Division located in Tho Xuan District in Thanh Hoa central province. During the visit, the Prime Minister also inspected Su-30MK2 aircraft that belong to the 923rd Regiment.





[/IMG]


Dung emphasized that it is necessary to build national defense and security system though we are living in peace. Therefore, the Prime Minister called on officers and soldiers to stay prepared for combat in any situation.

Specifically, Dung asked the 923rd Regiment to continue its priorities such as heightening the sense of vigilance and being ready for action as well as improving combat skills for its soldiers.

Su-30MK2 is a further improvement to Su-30MKK  a heavy class, all-weather, long-range strike fighter equipped with track-while-scan and look-down/shoot-down capability.

The *Su-30MK2 multi-role fighter *is designed to gain air superiority through killing hostile manned and unmanned aircraft with guided missiles in medium-range engagements and dogfights, and surface (ground and sea) targets destroying with all types of weapon, first of all with high precision weapon in individual and group operations in all-weather conditions.





_Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh pictured with air force soldiers at Yen The Air Force Division._


















_The rockets installed on SU30MK2 aircraft_

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## Reashot Xigwin

* Vietnam Takes Delivery of Third C212-400*
28 Januari 2013





_The Vietnamese Coast Guard's third and final C212-400 aircraft (photo : Airbus Military)_

Airbus Military delivers last C212 400 assembled in Spain. The delivery of this aircraft mark moment of Spanish aviation history

Airbus Military has delivered the last C212-400 assembled in Spain. This delivery marks a moment of Spanish aviation history and the end of more than 40 years of continuous production of the C212 &#8211;one of the Spanish best-known aerospace products&#8211; at the Airbus Military final assembly line (FAL) in Seville, Spain. Since its maiden flight in 1971, 477 C212 have been built for 92 different operators. Nowadays, 290 C212 remain in service in 40 countries all over the world. The three countries in which there are today most C212s in operation are Indonesia (70 aircraft), USA (37), and Spain (26). This 477th C212 &#8211;the third and final C212-400 for the Vietnam Marine Police&#8211; was formally delivered on December 28th, ending 42 years of continuous production of the type.

*Designed in the late 1960s, the C212 was first delivered to the Portuguese Air Force and the Spanish Air Force in October 1974. After its entry in service, the airlifter became rapidly renowned at a global level for its robustness and reliability. In fact, the C212 has been successfully operated in every corner of the planet &#8211;including the Antarctic ice cap. Operators in some of the toughest operating conditions to be found developed enormous affection for its uniquely versatile characteristics and deployed it on an extraordinary variety of roles ranging from transport to rain-making, ultra-sophisticated surveillance to search and rescue. The Design Office of the company eventually developed four different series of the aircraft &#8211; culminating in the C212-400, which made its first flight in 1997, in addition to a variety of special mission versions.*

*Airbus Military CEO, Domingo Ureña-Raso, said: "Every Airbus Military employee involved with the C212 throughout these years can be rightly proud of producing an aircraft that has served its operators faithfully over many years and provided the basis for the development of CASA into the world-class company that it is today in the form of Airbus Military. Times move on, but it will be a great pleasure to see the C212 continuing to fly in near or far-flung corners of the globe for many years to come."*

*Both military and civil operators have benefited from the C212´s versatility and reliability throughout four decades. From now on operators from all over the world will have a new and upgraded version available, renamed as NC212, that will be produced jointly by PT Dirgantara Indonesia and Airbus Military and assembled in Bandung (Indonesia). The Airbus Military final assembly line in Seville will now focus on the production of the C295 and CN235 aircraft in both transport and mission configurations, as well as on the increasing activity on the A400M assembly line.*

Airbus Military delivers last C212-400 assembled in Spain. The delivery of this aircraft marks moment of Spanish aviation history - Airbus Military

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## Viet

*Viking Air* delivered first of six Twin Otters To Vietnamese Navy. 

The six DHC-6 Twin Otter Series 400 aircraft ($5 million each) will be equipped for amphibious operations and form the Vietnamese navy's first fixed-wing-aircraft unit. They will be used primarily for search and rescue and to patrol more than 3,400 kilometres of coastline.

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## Evgeny

First Type 06361 submarine Hà N&#7897;i spotted in Svetly, Kaliningrad region, Russia

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...etly-kaliningrad-region-ru.html#ixzz2JRNNpDAh
















Vietnam is to receive 6 Type 06361 (&#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1077;&#1082;&#1090; 06361) submarines by the end of 2016.
The first submarine of the series, Hà N&#7897;i, will be passed over to Vietnam Naval Forces in August 2013.

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## Viet

These diesel-electric submarines are reportely equipped with complex Club-S cruise missiles.

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## Soryu

*Vietnam's Naval infantry*

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## Viet

Two of four Gepard frigates have been delivered to Vietnam Navy, the third is expected in 2014.

source: H&#7843;i quân Vi&#7879;t Nam s&#7869; nh&#7853;n tàu chi&#7871;n Gepard th&#7913; ba vào n&#259;m 2014 
Link: H





_The first Gepard-3.9 of Vietnam Navy_





_The second Gepard-3.9 of Vietnam Navy_

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## Viet

*Admiralty factory in St. Petersburg* held the naming and launching ceremony for Vietnamese second kilo submarine on December 28, 2012

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## Viet

The babe of our navy 







...for airforce

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## Minjitta

Viet said:


> I see you are new in the forum. Before I respond, can you pls intruduce yourself?



What you wanted to know from me?
Btw i am not on this forum daily


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## Viet

Minjitta said:


> What you wanted to know from me?
> Btw i am not on this forum daily


The question was raised some long time ago. I wan unsure if you are Vietnamese.


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## Reashot Xigwin

*Vietnam Arranges Event for Media for the Su-30MK2 Missile*
02 Februari 2013






(Phunutoday) - Many modern air weapons are equipped for multi-purpose fighter Su-30MK2 Vietnamese Air Force public media. (all photos : PhunuToday, ttvnol)





The advanced air missile for the Su-30MK2 is on display for the Prime Minister and Minister of Defense test.





This is the first time the weapon equip Vietnamese Su-30MK2 is a public official.





The air missiles such as the R-27, R-73, Kh-29 is on display in the warehouse in the maintenance state, they have not been mounted off to fight. Kh-29 is an air-to-surface missile, range 10-30 km.





However, the transition to a state of combat readiness for the missiles will take place in just a few minutes.





There is a full range of categories, different variants carry fire fitted to the Su-30MK2 Vietnam.





Air-to-air missiles mounted on the rack of weapons Vietnam Su-30MK2 aircraft.
The R-27 missile was ready to fight.





Close-up of a probe-to-air missile R-27. R-27 is a medium range air-to-air missile with range up to 120 km

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## Reashot Xigwin

continue from post #93




Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung will not forget to remind the officers, soldiers, officers ... 923 regiment quickly master the equipment, weapons and equipment of modern ready defense.





However, probably the most special is the appearance of anti-ship missiles / high-speed anti-radar Kh-31A/P. KH-31A is a medium range air to surface missile against up to destroyer size, range 25-50 km. 





High-speed anti-ship missiles, anti-radar Kh-31A and Kh-31P appeared reasonable, next to the modern-to-air missiles. Kh-31P is an anti radiation missile, range 110 km.





The tail of a close-to-air missiles (R-73) in a state of combat readiness on the Su-30MK2. R-73 is a short range air-to-air missile, range 20-40 km.





The aircraft can perform multitasking, including fights, sea and land evaluation.

(PhunuToday)

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## Viet

*Vietnam conducts the largest military exercise since 1975*

09/01/2013 (GMT+7) | VietNamNet Bridge

Soldiers at the Mieu Mon Military Training Centre have participated in a live fire training course organized by the Defense Ministry in the past days.















Tanks of Brigade No. 201 deploying combat formation on the ground.


VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; The Corps No. 2 of the Ministry of Defense has successfully organized an exercise of the largest scale since 1975, in order to deal with the hypothetical situation: the enemy lands in Vietnam by air.






A team of soldiers firing a missile.





Infantry forces preparing to cross a river





They crossed the river.





_Senior Lieutenant-General Do Ba Ty, Deputy Defense Minister, saw army products being on display at the Mieu Mon Military Training Centre.
_

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## 帅的一匹

Asskicker said:


> You will be getting the Brahmos soon for those role.



It's not gonna happen until you become the Defence Minister of India. Now the GOI government don't have the gut to sell it. You need Russian's permission to sell it cause you are just responsible for assembling.


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## Viet

*President pays New Year visits to armed forces*
VNA
Updated : Tue, February 5, 2013,8:57 AM (GMT+0700)






_President Truong visits Special Force Mission 1 _





_President Truong visited Information Brigade 205 _

In the days leading up to the Lunar New Year, President Truong Tan Sang on February 4 visited *Information Brigade 205*, a unit awarded with the title *&#8216;Hero of the People&#8217;s Armed Forces&#8217;.*

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## Viet

*Head of US marines says training missions with Vietnam a possibility*
Friday, 08 February, 2013, 12:00am






_US General Jim Amos_


The head of the US marines has raised the prospect of future *training missions* in Vietnam - the latest sign of a deepening *strategic relationship* between Hanoi and Washington that is being closely watched in Beijing.

Marine Corps commandant General Jim Amos was quoted this week in the Marine Corps Times newspaper as saying that an upcoming bomb disposal effort in Vietnam could lead to the country being used for training.

"We are not training in Vietnam," *Amos said of the deployment in July that will see US marines teach locals how to dispose of thousands of bombs left over from the Vietnam war.*

"But I would hope that someday down the road, with relationships we build over the next year or two, that we'll be able to train in Vietnam, perhaps with air forces, and operate along with them."

Chinese officials have been eyeing warily the emerging relationship between the once bitter enemies, with *incoming president Xi Jinping having warned Vietnamese officials about the relationship.*

The military relationship has seen limited naval exercises, air force exchanges and visits by US naval vessels to the strategic Cam Ranh Bay for repairs. But weapons sales remain restricted, despite Vietnamese pressure, and diplomatic efforts to formalise a strategic partnership have stalled amid ongoing US concerns over human rights in the Communist Party-ruled state. Hanoi has jailed dozens of dissidents in recent weeks, despite releasing two others amid US protests.

*Professor Carl Thayer*, a scholar on the Vietnamese military at the Australian Defence Force Academy, said the July move would be significant but he did not believe a full marine training mission would be accepted in the current environment.

"That may be their aspiration in the long term, but frankly there is not yet a China threat big enough to justify it &#8230; it would simply be too provocative."

Such a deployment would carry historical baggage, as marines played a key role in the Vietnam war. Hanoi officials have not commented on the report.

*US marines are expanding their reach in Asia Pacific, with Okinawa-based troops set to train in Guam, Australia and possibly the Philippines this year.*






_BASE HAWAII &#8211; Gen. James F. Amos, commandant of the Marine Corps_


Naval officials, meanwhile, confirmed this week that the first of* four new littoral combat ships*, designed to work with marines and to be based in Singapore, would arrive next month.

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## EastSea

A Su-30MK2 aircraft were transported by air from Russia to Vietnam 2013.






Manufacturers representative exchange his experiences with officers, engineers in Vietnam.







Installation and inspection works for handover.

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## Viet

*More Russian S-300PMU1 and Su-30MK2 will be supplied to Vietnam*

7:47 PM Kim Thuy Tran 
Vnesea






_Vietnam air force Su-30MK2_


Dec 25, 2012- Parallel with the completion of the lot offering 12 multi-purpose fighter Su-30MK2, Russia continues to negotiate for supplying more Su-30MK2 and S-300PMU1 defense missile systems to Vietnam.

Interfax-AVN news agency on Dec 24, 2012, citing deputy leader of the Federal Service For Military - Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) Mr. Vyacheslav Dzirkaln reports that negotiations are ongoing with positive signs.

Mr. Dzirkaln also said that military and technical cooperation between the Russian Federation and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam is evolving, the plans are dynamic progressing and good prospects in the near future.

At the end of year 2012, Vietnam People's Air Force has equipped 24 Su-30MK2 and 2 brigades of S-300PMU1 with 72 missiles.





_The surface-to-air missile system S-300PMU1 _















_Vietnam Servicemen operating the illumination and guidance radar system 30N6E to detect and track hostile flying targets (Photo: Nguyen Quoc Van)_

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## Viet

*Indian marine patrol aircraft DO-228 will fly in South China Sea's Air*

10:12 AM Kim Thuy Tran | Vnesea












Jan 31, 2013- *India can supply Vietnam with the marine patrol aircraft DO-228 in the period of 2013-2014.*

According to DefenceNow, The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) aims to produce 30 maritime surveillance aircraft Dornier DO-228 in the period 2013-2014 supplying the Indian Navy.

HAL will also manufacture 10 aircraft DO-228 for 6 countries: *Vietnam*, the Philippines, South Africa, Ecuador, Afghanistan and Thailand.

Dornier DO-228 aircraft are multi-turbine engine blades manufactured by Dornier GmbH (Germany) production in the 1980s. In 1983, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) has bought production licenses and produced 228 units for the Asian market. *Price per a DO-228 unit is at about $ 7 millions.*

The aircraft equipped with two turbine engine Garrett TPE-331 propeller that allows maximum speed of 433km / h, range more than 1,000 km, service ceiling at 8.535m. Plane just needs a runway of 750m to take off.

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## NiceGuy

> . Ria Novosti &#273;&#432;a tin, phía Nga s&#7869; chuy&#7875;n giao 2 tàu ng&#7847;m t&#7845;n công Kilo cho H&#7843;i quân Nhân dân Vi&#7879;t Nam trong n&#259;m nay. Vi


translate to English


> . Russia news paper Ria Novosti reported that Russia will transfer 2 Kilo attack submarines for the Vietnam People's Navy this year.(2013)

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## Soryu

It's good.
We also upgrade S-300PMU1 to PMU2 on this year.

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## Viet

*Vietnam PM visits Bastion anti-ship missile unit*

Th&#7913; hai 18/02/2013 
Th


The system is designed for destruction of various surface ships from enemy's landing squadrons, convoys, carrier strike groups, as well as single vessels and land-based radiocontrast targets in conditions of intensive fire and electronic countermeasures. 
*
The system uses the P-800 Yakhont (SS-N-26) anti-ship cruise missiles and has a maximum range of 300 km. *

Th&#7911; t&#432;&#7899;ng th&#259;m cán b&#7897;, chi&#7871;n s&#297; &#272;oàn 681 H&#7843;i quân


































Launch of a Yakhont missile

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## Viet

Quang Nam Province&#8217;s Border Guard on patrol during Tet 2013 (Vietnam-Laos border)






Rechecking weapons and equipment before setting off

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> *Vietnam PM visits Bastion anti-ship missile unit*
> Launch of a Yakhont missile


Great pic, but Is this really Yakhont !? ( Bastion P fire it missile in the tube-stand way ) Missile and launcher shape also have different. ( It's likely SS-N-3 Shaddock to me )

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## Viet

Soryu said:


> Great pic, but Is this really Yakhont !? ( Bastion P fire it missile in the tube-stand way ) Missile and launcher shape also have different. ( It's likely SS-N-3 Shaddock to me )


I copied the pic from 
Weapon and Technology: SS-N-26 Yakhont to protect russian sites near Syria
It is for ilustration purpose. The missile can be launched vertically or in angle. Here is another close-up pic from Yakhont missile:

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## Soryu

Like a Kh-35 missile to me!?


Viet said:


> I copied the pic from
> Weapon and Technology: SS-N-26 Yakhont to protect russian sites near Syria
> It is for ilustration purpose. The missile can be launched vertically or in angle. Here is another close-up pic from Yakhont missile:


So this may be a "test" missile from BAL system more than like a Bastion-P:






This not like YaKhont ethier:





Aghhh, I confused...

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## Viet

*Germany further assists Vietnam in bomb and mine clearance*


2/20/2013 11:13:56 AM
Voice of Vietnam








(VOV) - *Germany will provide Vietnam with US$1.3 million to clean up mines and unexploded ordnance (UXO)* in the central provinces of Quang Tri, Thua Thien Hue and Quang Binh this year, according to the German embassy in Hanoi. 

The Solidarity Service International (SODI), a German non-governmental organization, has co-ordinated with the Vietnamese Military and local authorities to implement the charity projects on bomb and mine clearance in Vietnam.

Over the years, SODI groups have discovered 19,275 explosive devices in Quang Tri and Thua Thien Hue provinces. In 2012, the organization helped clean up landmines on nearly 275 hectares of land which will be used for agricultural production, resettlement and infrastructure construction.

*This is the 15th year the German Foreign Office has helped Vietnam resolve the consequences of war, contributing to improving living conditions in the central region.* Since 1998, the German Foreign Office has provided US$13.7 million for bomb and mine clearance projects in the region.

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## Viet

Third sub is being buit


Chuyên gia Nga: 'Tàu ng


According to a articles of naval expert Yu.V. Vedernikov on the front page of the* Russian Academy of Military Science *, VN´s fleet of 6 low-noise submarines, nicknamed 'Black Holes', will be equipped with Club-S missiles, depending on the configuration capable of destroying ground targets (missiles 3M-14E) and target surface (3M rocket -54E) at a distance of 220-300 km. 

"The improved Kilo-class submarines feature *stealth technology* with extended combat range to strike targets on land, sea surface and underwater."

Equipped with 18 torpedoes and 8 surface-to-air missiles, the submarines have a cruising speed of 20k, a range of 400 miles using electronic propulsion, can patrol for 45 days and are capable of accommodating a crew of 52.

Combined with coastal based missiles Yakhonts (range of 120 to 300 km), the subs enables VN to extend the *defensive line to 2,000 km*.

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## Soryu

BTR-152 is still in use with the VPA, and in very good condition through extensive and professional maintainance.











Digital camo made by Vietnam 9th military region factory ( well, I live in this region)







Mini Uzi and C-TAR:







Mini Uzi pack:

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Third sub is being buit
> 
> According to a articles of naval expert Yu.V. Vedernikov on the front page of the* Russian Academy of Military Science *, VN´s fleet of 6 low-noise submarines, nicknamed 'Black Holes', will be equipped with Club-S missiles, depending on the configuration capable of destroying ground targets (missiles 3M-14E) and target surface (3M rocket -54E) at a distance of 220-300 km.
> 
> "The improved Kilo-class submarines feature *stealth technology* with extended combat range to strike targets on land, sea surface and underwater."
> 
> Equipped with 18 torpedoes and 8 surface-to-air missiles, the submarines have a cruising speed of 20k, a range of 400 miles using electronic propulsion, can patrol for 45 days and are capable of accommodating a crew of 52.
> 
> Combined with coastal based missiles Yakhonts (range of 120 to 300 km), the subs enables VN to extend the *defensive line to 2,000 km*.


I think there is mistake. Club-S is surface-to-surface type missile, when go on to submarine, so it' will be sub-surface-to-surface type.

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## EastSea

Soryu said:


> I think there is mistake. Club-S is surface-to-surface type missile, when go on to submarine, so it' will be sub-surface-to-surface type.




*Tàu ng&#7847;m Vi&#7879;t Nam có kh&#7843; n&#259;ng t&#7845;n công &#273;&#7845;t li&#7873;n'*







&#272;i&#7875;m n&#7893;i b&#7853;t c&#7911;a l&#7899;p Projekt 636 là s&#7921; hi&#7879;n di&#7879;n c&#7911;a h&#7879; th&#7889;ng tên l&#7917;a Club-S mà tùy thu&#7897;c vào c&#7845;u hình có kh&#7843; n&#259;ng tiêu di&#7879;t m&#7909;c tiêu m&#7863;t &#273;&#7845;t (tên l&#7917;a 3M-14E) và m&#7909;c tiêu m&#7863;t n&#432;&#7899;c (tên l&#7917;a 3M-54E) &#7903; c&#7921; ly 220-300 km. 

....

S&#7921; hi&#7879;n di&#7879;n c&#7911;a các tàu ng&#7847;m có &#273;&#7897; &#7891;n th&#7845;p làm t&#259;ng m&#7841;nh ti&#7873;m l&#7921;c ch&#7889;ng ng&#7847;m c&#7911;a h&#7841;m &#273;&#7897;i Vi&#7879;t Nam. &#272;i&#7873;u không ph&#7843;i nghi ng&#7901; là kh&#7843; n&#259;ng c&#7911;a các l&#7921;c l&#432;&#7907;ng tàu n&#7893;i và tàu ng&#7847;m t&#432;&#417;ng lai c&#7911;a Vi&#7879;t Nam gây áp l&#7921;c lên các tuy&#7871;n &#273;&#432;&#7901;ng giao thông hàng h&#7843;i c&#7911;a &#273;&#7889;i ph&#432;&#417;ng ti&#7873;m tàng t&#7841;i các eo bi&#7875;n chi&#7871;n l&#432;&#7907;c c&#7911;a &#272;ông Nam Á. V&#7899;i &#273;&#432;&#7901;ng b&#7901; bi&#7875;n tr&#7843;i dài 3260 km c&#7911;a Vi&#7879;t Nam, vi&#7879;c t&#7853;p trung các h&#7879; th&#7889;ng tên l&#7917;a b&#7901; bi&#7875;n c&#417; &#273;&#7897;ng cho phép t&#7893; ch&#7913;c m&#7897;t ti&#7873;n duyên phòng ng&#7921; r&#7897;ng 2000 km. 

.... 

link &#039;Tàu ng

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## NiceGuy

Vietnam to join UN peace keeping force in early 2014

Experience sharing and support from the United Nations (UN) Department for Peacekeeping Operations over the past time will help the Vietnam People's Army complete its preparations to participate in the UN's peacekeeping force in early 2014, state media quoted a senior official as saying.

The Vietnamese Deputy Minister of National Defense and Senior Lieutenant General, Nguyen Chi Vinh, made the statement in Hanoi on Monday when he met with Assistant Secretary General for Peacekeeping Operations at the United Nations, Edmond Mullet during the latter's visit to Vietnam on Feb. 25-28, according to state-run Vietnam News Agency.

At the meeting, Vinh also informed the guest of the training of officers, who will work as observers at the UN.

Mulet said that the peacekeeping department will work closely with the Vietnam People's Army and create favorable conditions for the Vietnamese side to send officers to visit a UN peacekeeping mission.

Mulet also met with Assistant to Vietnamese Foreign Minister Ha Kim Ngoc, during which he spoke highly of Vietnam's role, international prestige and contributions over the past years, adding that he hoped Vietnam will continue to contribute to the UN 's activities, especially in maintaining peace and international security.

Vietnam will continue implementing foreign policies of independence, self-mastery, peace, cooperation and development, and take the initiative in international integration, Ngoc said, adding that the country is a trustworthy friend and partner and a responsible member of the international community, and attaches importance to the multifaceted relationship with the UN.

During his stay in Vietnam, Mullet is scheduled to work with relevant ministries and agencies to help them effectively prepare for participating in any future UN peacekeeping campaigns.
Vietnam to join UN peace keeping force in early 2014 - Globaltimes.cn

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## Viet

He must go...

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> He must go...



where you get it, bro!? ( I know on address that belong giaoduc.net)


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> *where you get it*, bro!? ( I know on address that belong giaoduc.net)


here is the link
Hoa khôi V

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## Soryu

Here is full suit Digital camo which said wear by VPA on PKO in 2014.






Lord Astor at the opening ceremony of the English for UN peace - keeping operations.






VPA soldier with unknown rifle (somebody say it's FN FAL or Galli )






The mobile theater ballistic missile system, currently operated by the VPA Artillery Arms

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## Soryu

I will correct my post that maybe digital camo wear by soldier who was end his conscripts's service in VPA and was hired by UAE like guard soldier. About 300 men like him in UAE. Sorry for wrong information...


Soryu said:


> Here is full suit Digital camo which said wear by VPA on PKO in 2014.

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## NiceGuy

VN troops in UAE ??? ......but those men are much taller than normal VietNamese

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## visom

Don't worry about that NiceGuy

I'm not allowed to post links yet cause I have less than 15 posts, but you can google "boosting the height of vietnamese a taller order", there's hope.

"The programme is geared to raise the average height of Vietnamese males from 163cm to 167cm and females from 153cm to 157cm by 2020."

I say its pretty possible since vietnam is much better off now than it was and people are more likely well fed. My dad is 160cm and mom is 162 but I am 172 since I'm well fed from birth.

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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> VN troops in UAE ??? ......but those men are much taller than normal VietNamese


That´s weird! What did Vietnamese army do in United Arab Emirates?



visom said:


> Don't worry about that NiceGuy...


Welcome to Vietnam! Pls continue sharing your thoughts, like to hear what you think and experience in VN. 

Are you on holiday?

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## visom

Thanks Viet!

Actually the last time I've been to Vietnam was when i was born there in 1990, I moved to the US in 1991 and haven't been back since then due to personal reasons, but I enjoy reading this thread its so interesting to read all these developments and it makes me proud that a country thats once known for starvation and being war ravaged has high hopes to become smart, wealthy and happy. I'm currently not on any holidays but I did celebrate Tet 2 weeks ago.

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## Viet

*Vietnamese and Bruneian armies enhance cooperation*


Updated : 2/27/2013 7:57:12 PM
VOV online






_Commander of Royal Brunei Armed Forces, Major General Dato Paduka Seri Haji Aminuddin Ihsan_


(VOV) - *Commander of Royal Brunei Armed Forces*, Major General Dato Paduka Seri Haji Aminuddin Ihsan began a three-day official visit to Vietnam on February 26 at the invitation of Sen. Lieut. Gen. Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army.

At talks between the two army leaders, the two sides briefed each other on the situation in their respective countries, reviewed the results of cooperation over the past years and agreed on the *2013 cooperation plan*.

On the same day, the delegation of the Royal Brunei Armed Forces paid a courtesy visit to National Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> That´s weird! What did Vietnamese army do in United Arab Emirates?
> 
> 
> Welcome to Vietnam! Pls continue sharing your thoughts, like to hear what you think and experience in VN.
> 
> Are you on holiday?


Read my post, bro!



Soryu said:


> I will correct my post that digital camo wear by soldier who was end his conscripts's service in VPA and was hired by UAE like guard soldier. About 300 men like him in UAE. Sorry for wrong information...


Here is the link
Tuy


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## Viet

*Japan Coast Guard visits southern cities*


Updated : 2/28/2013 4:35:12 PM | VOV





_A Japan coast guard boat
_

(VOV) - A delegation from the Japan Coast Guard led by *Director General of the Guard and Rescue Department Kiyoshi Saishoji* is visiting the southern cities of Vung Tau and Ho Chi Minh City, from February 27 to March 1.

The delegation is scheduled to pay a cordial visit to leaders of the *Vietnam Marine Police Department* and have a working session with officers from the Marine Police Zone 3 during the visit.

The tour gives both *Japanese and Vietnamese marine police forces *the chance to exchange experience to strengthen the cooperation amongst law enforcement forces both in the region and throughout the world.

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## EastSea

Director General of the Guard and Rescue Department Kiyoshi Saishoji is visiting the southern cities of Vung Tau and Ho Chi Minh City,

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## Soryu

Yugo or Sang-O???

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## Viet

Vietnam army: tactical ballistic missiles SSM Scud-B/Scud-C installations, variant:
Scud B, range 300 km, warhead 985 kg
Scud C, range 550km, warhead 770 kg

Tên l&#7917;a Scud &#273;áng g&#7901;m c&#7911;a Vi&#7879;t Nam
Th&#7913; b&#7843;y 02/03/2013 19:00

Tên l

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## Viet

*Russia's Defense Minister starts his visit to Myanmar, Vietnam*


Mar 2, 2013 13:45 Moscow Time
Voice of Russia, TASS





Photo: RIA Novosti


On Saturday, *Russian Defense Minister* Sergei Shoigu begins his visit to Myanmar and Vietnam, where he will hold talks on military and political cooperation.
In Myanmar, Shoigu is to meet the country&#8217;s army chief General Min Aung Hlaing to discuss bilateral military and technical collaboration as well as the situation in the Asia-Pacific region.


In *Vietnam*, Shoigu plans to visit the Kamran naval base that was previously used as a maintenance center for the *Russian Pacific Fleet&#8217;s warships. *

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## Viet

Russian defense minister visits Vietnam


Last Updated: Sunday, March 03, 2013 05:30:00
Thanh Nien News





General Sergei Shoigu


*Russias Minister of Defense*, General Sergei Shoigu will be in Vietnam on March 4-5 to discuss bilateral military ties, according to the website of Russias defense ministry. Shoigu's two-day trip to Vietnam follows his three-day visit to Myanmar.

General Shoigu is scheduled to meet with his Vietnamese counterpart, *General Phung Quang Thanh*, and Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang.

According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the two sides will hold talks on* bilateral military ties*, as well as *security issues within the Asia-Pacific region.*

Shoigu and his delegation will visit Khanh Hoa Provinces *Cam Ranh port*, which was Russias largest naval base outside its territory until 2002.

From March 2-4, he met with Myanmars Vice President Nyan Tun and the country's army chief Vice-Senior General Min Augung Hlaynom, and discussed similar issues.

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## Evgeny

... and Mianmar buys several SSJ100s and MiG29s from Russia.

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## Viet

@Evgeny

...and we need more modern subs and closer military cooperations, my friend! 
I don´t believe to a peaceful rise of China.


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## Viet

*Russia's return to Vietnam*


04.03.2013
English pravda.ru: Russian news and analysis





Hanoi


*Russia's Defence Minister*, General Sergei Shoigu, has set out to visit Vietnam for talks on military cooperation. He will visit the Cam Ranh naval base in Cam Ranh Bay, a previous maintenance centre for the warships of the Soviet Pacific Fleet. Already in November 2010, the Vietnamese Government had invited Russian experts to update this base, according to Vietnam's Defence Minister, Phung Quang Thanh.

*by Olivia Kroth*

Cam Ranh Bay is located in the Vietnamese province of Khanh Hoa, about 290 kilometres north of Ho-Chi-Minh City, formerly called Saigon. The bay has always been militarily important for Russia. *The Imperial Russian Fleet *already used it, in 1905, under Admiral Zinovy Petrovich Rozhestvensky (1848-1909) in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904/1905.

From 1979 on, the Soviet Pacific Fleet was present at the naval base of Cam Ranh. It was *the largest Soviet naval base outside of the Soviet Union*. By 1987, it had been expanded to four times its original size. In May 2002, Russia withdrew from Cam Ranh. In 2013, however, after a lapse of ten years, its use shall be revived. Sergei Shoigu will negotiate details with the government in Hanoi.






Russian President Vladimir Putin, shown in a file picture next to Sergei Shoigu (L)


*Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu*, born on the 21st of May 1955 in Chada, Tuva, has served as Russia's Defence Minister since November 2012. In 1977, he graduated from the Krasnoyarsk Polytechnic Institute in Siberia with a degree in Civil Engineering. Sergei Shoigu worked in the construction industry, before being appointed as Minister of Emergency Situations in 1991. He was also the United Russia Party's leader from 2001 to 2005 and Governor of the Moscow Region in 2012.

*Russia's relations with Vietnam date back to January 1950*, when a Soviet Embassy was established in North Vietnam. The USSR was a loyal and strong ally for Vietnam. After the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, relations remained friendly. Many Vietnamese students study in Russia today with Russian government scholarships.

In January 2001, *President Vladimir Putin* visited Hanoi to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Russo-Vietnamese ties. He was received by the Vietnamese President, Tran Duc Luong. During Vladimir Putin's presidency, Russian influence in Vietnam has been built up again. In 2009, Vietnam began to buy Russian military equipment, especially *Sukhoi Su-30 fighter jets and submarines*.

Mutual trade picked up and reached a peak in 2012, as the Vietnam Investment Review reported. According to the Vietnamese Trade Counsellor in Russia, Pham Quang Niem, Russia's exports to Vietnam increased by four percent to 1.400 billion USD in 2012, while Vietnam sold goods worth 2.300 billion USD to Russia, an increase of 32 percent.

*Russia exports chemicals, metals, oil and machinery to Vietnam*. It buys agrarian products, footwear and textiles from Vietnam. Two oil and gas joint ventures operate in Vietnam, RusVietPetro and GazpromViet. Altogether, Russia has 83 projects in Vietnam, with a total capital of 924 million USD, in the fields of oil and gas, heavy and light industries, fishing and transport.

Vietnam also needs atomic energy for civilian purposes from Russia. On the 7th of January 2013, Bo Ngoai Giao Vietnam, the *Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs*, published a report on Russo-Vietnamese energy cooperation, "The National Assembly (NA) of Vietnam pays attention to the energy cooperation between Vietnam and Russia, creating conditions for Russian enterprises to broaden their business in Vietnam."

The Russian State Duma Committee for Energy and the Vietnamese NA Committee for Science, Technology and Environment are expected to "foster their cooperation in specific activities that will enhance mutual understanding and the effectiveness of the two parliaments," according to this report.

Russia's second largest bank VTB will provide one billion USD to the Rosatom Nuclear Energy State Corporation for the construction of a *nuclear power plant in Vietnam*. The project will cost about 10 billion USD. The contract has been given to the Russian engineering company Atomstroyexport. The Moscow-based bank VTB was founded in 1990. It is registered in Saint Petersburg. The Russian Federation owns 75.5 percent of the VTB shares.

Andrei Kostin, the CEO of VTB, was born on the 21st of September 1956 in Moscow and graduated in 1979 from the Moscow State University with a degree in International Economics. In 2001, he received his PhD in Economics. In November 2011, Andrei Kostin was appointed Chairman of the APEC Summit, which was successfully held in Vladivostok, in September 2012.

The Rosatom Nuclear Energy State Corporation is also headquartered in Moscow. It was established in January 1992 as successor of the Ministry of Nuclear Engineering and Industry of the USSR, and re-organized in March 2000. Rosatom controls the Russian nuclear power holding Atomenergoprom, nuclear weapon companies, nuclear research institutes and nuclear safety agencies.

Head of Rosatom is Sergei Vladilenovich Kiriyenko, born on the 26th of July 1962 in Sukhum, Abkhazia. His grandfather, Yakov Israitel, was a Communist KGB leader and close friend of Vladimir Lenin. Sergei Kiriyenko grew up in Sochi. Later he studied at the shipbuilding faculty of the Water Transport Engineers Institute in Nizhni Novgorod. In November 2005, President Vladimir Putin appointed him Head of Rosatom.

Cultural, touristic and student exchange activities are an additional bonus of *Russia's return to Vietnam*. Interesting cultural events are organized through the Embassies and Consulates of both countries. Vietnam has an Embassy in Moscow and a Consulate-General in Vladivostok. The Russian Federation is represented in Vietnam by its Embassy in Hanoi and the Consulate-General in Danang.

The Vietnamese Communist leader, *Ho Chi Minh *(1890-1969), who visited the Soviet Union for the first time in 1923, then again 1927, and whose granite mausoleum in Hanoi is modelled after Lenin's Tomb in Moscow, once said, "Remember, the storm is a good opportunity for the pine and the cypress to show their strength and stability."

Both countries, Russia and Vietnam, have survived quite a few storms in their turbulent history. Thus, both nations had good opportunities to prove their stability and strength, similar to the cypress and the pine.

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## Evgeny

Viet said:


> @Evgeny
> 
> ...and we need more modern subs and closer military cooperations, my friend!
> I don´t believe to a peaceful rise of China.



I hope new contracts will be signed. Shoigu will visit Kam Rahn naval base during the visit.
I hope our friendship will become as strong as during CCCP times

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## EastSea

Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu, Russin defense minister in Hanoi







According to the Voice of Russia, during the two-day visit (4-5/3) in Vietnam, Mr. Shoigu will visit the Cam Ranh Bay.

The RIA Novosti news agency said the visit of Mr. Shoigu will focus on "discussing the regional security situation" and "cooperation in the field of military and technology".

Mr. Sergei Shoigu was appointed as the Minister of Defense in early November 2012. Previously, he served as the Minister for Urgent Affairs in 11 years.

Sergei Shoigu is one of the people who play a key role in Russian politics. He was assigned to take on the role of Deputy Prime Minister, in fact directly supporting President Putin, in the first five months of 2000, before President Vladimir Putin officially inaugurated the first term. He is also the seniorist member of the Russian Federation Security Council from 1994-2012.

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## Evgeny

EastSea said:


> Sergei Kuzhugetovich Shoigu, Russin defense minister in Hanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Voice of Russia, during the two-day visit (4-5/3) in Vietnam, Mr. Shoigu will visit the Cam Ranh Bay.
> 
> The RIA Novosti news agency said the visit of Mr. Shoigu will focus on "discussing the regional security situation" and "cooperation in the field of military and technology".
> 
> Mr. Sergei Shoigu was appointed as the Minister of Defense in early November 2012. Previously, he served as the Minister for Urgent Affairs in 11 years.
> 
> Sergei Shoigu is one of the people who play a key role in Russian politics. He was assigned to take on the role of Deputy Prime Minister, in fact directly supporting President Putin, in the first five months of 2000, before President Vladimir Putin officially inaugurated the first term. He is also the seniorist member of the Russian Federation Security Council from 1994-2012.



Shoigu or Rogozin will possibly be a President of Russian Federation one day.

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## NiceGuy

Evgeny said:


> I hope new contracts will be signed. Shoigu will visit Kam Rahn naval base during the visit.
> I hope our friendship will become as strong as during CCCP times



Pls bring back ur bomber to Cam Ranh

CCCP's Tu-142 in Cam Ranh before 1990

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## Evgeny

Well, it is better not to make China and US nervous by bringing strategic bombers to Vietnam

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## NiceGuy

Evgeny said:


> Well, it is better not to make China and US nervous by bringing strategic bombers to Vietnam


Yeah,those bad@$$ will jumping up and down and keep screaming like crazy.Thailand-Singapore will surrender and become communist states and pay tribute to VN-Russia within hour


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## Evgeny

NiceGuy said:


> Pls bring back ur bomber to Cam Ranh
> 
> CCCP's Tu-142 in Cam Ranh before 1990



NiceGuy, you possess rariest photographs

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## Viet

Evgeny said:


> Well, it is better not to make China and US nervous by bringing *strategic bombers* to Vietnam


The Chinese may get nervous, while the Amis are more relaxed, I believe. You can mask the jets as friendship visit. 

Let revive the So*viets* superpower!





We are with you, Vietnam!

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## Evgeny

We will better bring several warships, like this one, nuclear powered rocket cruiser "Peter the Great".

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## EastSea

Evgeny said:


> Well, it is better not to make China and US nervous by bringing strategic bombers to Vietnam



No, with S-3000 air deference missiles they can not do nothing. 1972 with SAM 2 B-52 of US air-force were shoot-down. Today Russian-Viet cooperation to keep peace for Vietnam, our friendship don't harm to any one here on region if he don't have intention to attack Viet..

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## Evgeny

Viet said:


> The Chinese may get nervous, while the Amis are more relaxed, I believe. You can mask the jets as friendship visit.
> 
> Let revive the So*viets* superpower!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are with you, Vietnam!




YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

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## Evgeny

Well we will know if any new contracts were signed very soon.

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## Viet

*Russia, Vietnam bolster defence ties*


Updated : 3/5/2013 6:19:54 PM
VOV













(VOV) -The two sides have agreed to continue sustainable *military cooperation *over the long term, promote delegation exchanges, and devise specific orientations capable of pushing Vietnamese-Russian defence relations to new heights.

*Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh *held talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoygu immediately after the March 5 ceremony welcoming the Russian Defence Ministry delegation.

They compared notes on international and regional issues of common concern, reviewed the results of the defence ministries&#8217; cooperation over 2012, and discussed opportunities for future cooperation.

Thanh described the Russian General&#8217;s visit as a boon to the friendship and cooperation between the two countries, adding fresh impetus to expanding their bilateral defence ties.

Shoygu said cooperation between the two armies has yet to meet its full potential. The two sides need to discuss possible improvements that would honour the traditional friendship and accord with the strategic partnership.

At a meeting with the Russian guest on the same day, *State President Truong Tan Sang *spoke highly of the outcomes of talks between the two defence ministers, expressing hope that Minister Sergei Shoygu&#8217;s visit will help boost the nations&#8217; multifaceted cooperation

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## darkhero

Viet said:


> @Evgeny
> 
> ...and we need more modern subs and closer military cooperations, my friend!
> I don´t believe to a peaceful rise of China.



seriously, 1000 subs are not enough. you'd better spend your money to build your economy, so you won't always run to China for help


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## Viet

darkhero said:


> seriously, 1000 subs are not enough.* you'd better spend your money to build your economy,* so you won't always run to China for help


If you promise not to attack Vietnam, than we promise spending the money on economy.



Evgeny said:


> Well we will know if any *new contracts *were signed very soon.


New purchaces are not expected to be seen this time. If any then we will have to wait until our PM visits Russia later this year.

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## NiceGuy

The Third Vietnasm's Kilo is under assembled
Tàu ng

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## Evgeny

New purchaces are not expected to be seen this time. If any then we will have to wait until our PM visits Russia later this year.[/QUOTE]

Possibly they just discuss possibilities and needs, and then Putin comes, sign the contracts
Defence minister is not in position to make such things.


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## Viet

Evgeny said:


> Possibly they just discuss possibilities and needs, and then Putin comes, sign the contracts
> *Defence minister is not in position to make such things*.


Yeah, the main goal of Shoygu´s visit is Camranh and military cooperation. 

I think Vietnam has rooms to spend more on arms purchaces, as the economy generates considerable trade and current account surpluses. We will see.







Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang (R) holds talks with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in Hanoi, capital of Vietnam, March 5, 2013. (Xinhua/VNA)

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## Viet

*Russia to assist Vietnam in naval development*


TUOITRENEWS A+ A-
Updated : Tue, March 5, 2013,4:55 PM (GMT+0700)






Vietnamese Defense Minister General Phung Quang Thanh (R) receives Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in Hanoi - Photo: VietNamNet


Speaking at a press conference after a talk with *Vietnamese Defense Minister *General Phung Quang Thanh, visiting Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu this morning said *Russia would help Vietnam in submarine building and crew training*.

&#8220;Within this year, the two countries&#8217; common effort is to open a new page in the history of development of Vietnam&#8217;s navy,&#8221; Shoigu, who started his visit to Vietnam on March 4, said.

*Russia will help Vietnam train crews and build new naval ships.* This is an important part in the cooperation between the naval forces of the two countries, Shoigu said.

He also expressed his thanks for Vietnam&#8217;s invitation of Russian naval veterans who once helped Vietnam in the past to visit Vietnam for relaxation and medical treatment. 

He said he hoped that* a tourist resort intended for Russian soldiers will be set up in Vietnam soon*.

Regarding the Vietnamese side&#8217;s suggestion to establish an *annual defense dialogue *mechanism between the two countries, Shoigu said he totally supported the suggestion and hoped that such a mechanism could be operational within this year.

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## EastSea

Vietnam, Russia to improve bilateral defence ties


By IANS - HANOI 05th March 2013 05:35 PM
Vietnam and Russia here Tuesday held ministerial-level talks to raise bilateral defence ties to a new height.

"At the meeting, the two sides discussed issues of implementing the consensus reached by the two countries' leaders, exchange of visits by high-ranking military officials, cooperation in military engineering, human resources training, and weapons purchase," said Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh during a press briefing after the meeting.

The two sides also agreed on establishment of a deputy ministerial level defence dialogue, Thanh added.

The two ministers also discussed about cooperation at the biennial regional multilateral defence forum ASEAN Defence Ministers' Meeting Plus (ADMM+).

Thanh said that Vietnam wanted to invite veterans of Russia and other former Soviet Union countries to visit Vietnam in order to strengthen relations.

The two sides have worked on issues which are vital to the relationship between the two countries, creating stronger impetus to the cooperation in specific areas, said Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu.

"We will join efforts to usher in a new development of the Vietnamese navy. Vietnam's submarine force is expected to be established this year," Shoigu said.

Shoigu is on a two-day visit to Vietnam at the invitation of his Vietnamese counterpart.

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## Viet

Link "Nga s

Russia will help Vietnam train crews and build new naval ships

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## Viet

VN´s army, female powers!

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## Viet



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## Soryu

You made the air so hot... Viet, but I feel refresh when I see our beautiful girl and women... Happy Women day!

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## EastSea

preparing for worst, we don't know when chinese is going to be mad man.
Russian weapons are good enough.

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## Viet

Vietnam, Thailand to boost military ties


VOV
Updated : 3/12/2013 10:56:56 AM







Vietnam and Thailand have agreed to strengthen *military cooperation *between the two countries within the framework of the National Defence Agreement of Vietnam and Thailands Ministries of National Defence signed in September 2012.

The agreement was reached during the working visit of a Vietnamese military delegation, led by Minister of National Defence, General Phung Quang Thanh to *Thailand *from March 1114, at the invitation of his Thai counterpart SukumpolSuwanatat.

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## Viet

source: Xí nghi
Xí nghi&#7879;p qu&#7889;c phòng St. Petersburg m&#7903; phòng &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n t&#7841;i Cam Ranh


Defense company in St. Petersburg opens representative office in Cam Ranh


Thursday, 14/03/2013 08:21 Voice of Russia





opening scene





_Beware what lies beneath... A fishing junk in the bay of Hanoi. Photo: Getty_


(GDVN) - *Avrora* is the world's leading manufacturer providing combat information and control systems for ships and submarines.

Voice of Russia reported a representative office was opened on Wednesday in the city of Nha Trang in South Vietnam, near the port of Cam Ranh.

Company representative Kazbek Kulayev said the representative office is an important step towards strengthening the long-term and friendly relationship between the two countries.

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## Viet

Defence minister visits Australia


Updated : 3/15/2013 10:38:17 AM







(VOV) - *Defence Minister General *Phung Quang Thanh is paying an official visit to *Australia *from March 15-20 at the invitation of his Australian counterpart Stephen Smith.

General Thanh is scheduled to hold talks with Smith and attend a joint press briefing in Canberra. He will also visit *a naval base in Australia*.

Both sides will review national defence ties over the years and discuss measures to foster the ties, aiming to strengthen the friendship, mutual understanding and trust between the two militaries.

Thanh&#8217;s visit take places at a time when Vietnam and Australia are celebrating 40 years of diplomatic ties, showing both countries&#8217; determination to* boost their national defence ties.*

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## Viet

China and Vietnam conclude first joint border patrol in 2013


By Chen Dianhong and Cai Yan (China Military Online)
08:27, March 15, 2013 





_Welcoming the guest delegation at Hung Quoc border gate_


Commanders of the China-Vietnam joint land border patrol detachment composed of the headquarters of the Baise Military Sub-Command under the Guangxi Military Command of the *Chinese People's Liberation Army* (PLA) and the headquarters of the Border Defense Unit of north Vietnam's Cao B&#7857;ng Province signed the minute on the just-concluded first joint border patrol in 2013 at 11:00 on March 7, 2013 at the No. 741 boundary marker on the border between China and Vietnam.

The joint border patrol was carried out according to the consensus reached by the Chinese and Vietnamese border defense representative bodies. The patrol route was the fifth section of China-Vietnam land border.

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## NiceGuy

> Ông Konstantin Shilov &#8211; T&#7893;ng Giám &#273;&#7889;c T&#7893; h&#7907;p Qu&#7889;c phòng Avrora (LB NGA):
> &#8220;H&#7907;p tác v&#7899;i Vi&#7879;t Nam không ph&#7843;i là kinh doanh &#273;&#417;n thu&#7847;n"
> (L&#272 - S&#7889; 58 - Th&#7913; hai 18/03/2013 11:07
> Trang ch&#7911; | Th&#7871; gi&#7899;i
> 
> Th&#7921;c hi&#7879;n ch&#7881; &#273;&#7841;o c&#7911;a Chính ph&#7911; Nga, T&#7893; h&#7907;p công ngh&#7879; tàu bi&#7875;n Avrora (R&#7841;ng &#272;ông) &#273;ang tri&#7875;n khai h&#7907;p tác v&#7899;i B&#7897; Qu&#7889;c phòng VN trong l&#297;nh v&#7921;c khoa h&#7885;c k&#7929; thu&#7853;t qu&#7889;c phòng và an ninh. Tu&#7847;n qua, t&#7841;i Nha Trang (Khánh Hòa), Avrora &#273;ã khai tr&#432;&#417;ng v&#259;n phòng &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n th&#7913; hai c&#7911;a mình &#7903; n&#432;&#7899;c ngoài.
> 
> Ngoài l&#297;nh v&#7921;c khoa h&#7885;c k&#7929; thu&#7853;t qu&#7889;c phòng và an ninh, Avrora c&#361;ng quan tâm h&#7907;p tác v&#7899;i các doanh nghi&#7879;p &#273;óng tàu dân s&#7921; c&#7911;a Vi&#7879;t Nam. Nhân d&#7883;p này, ông Konstantin Shilov - T&#7893;ng Giám &#273;&#7889;c Avrora - &#273;ã dành riêng cho Lao &#272;&#7897;ng cu&#7897;c ph&#7887;ng v&#7845;n v&#7873; ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng c&#7911;a Avrora t&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t Nam.
> 
> - Th&#432;a ông, T&#7893; h&#7907;p Avrora v&#7915;a m&#7903; v&#259;n phòng &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n t&#7841;i Nha Trang. &#272;ây là &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n th&#7913; hai c&#7911;a Avrora trên toàn th&#7871; gi&#7899;i sau Mumbai - &#7844;n &#272;&#7897;. Xin ông cho bi&#7871;t t&#7841;i sao Avrora l&#7841;i có quy&#7871;t &#273;&#7883;nh này?
> 
> - Chính sách c&#7911;a Avrora là chúng tôi luôn &#273;i theo s&#7843;n ph&#7849;m c&#7911;a mình và m&#7903; &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n, các trung tâm b&#7843;o d&#432;&#7905;ng, s&#7917;a ch&#7919;a t&#7841;i nh&#7919;ng n&#417;i mà s&#7843;n ph&#7849;m c&#7911;a chúng tôi &#273;&#432;&#7907;c &#273;&#432;a vào ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng. T&#7893; h&#7907;p c&#7911;a chúng tôi s&#7843;n xu&#7845;t h&#7879; th&#7889;ng &#273;i&#7873;u khi&#7875;n cho nhi&#7873;u lo&#7841;i tàu bi&#7875;n khác nhau. Do Vi&#7879;t Nam và Nga &#273;ang tri&#7875;n khai nh&#7919;ng ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng h&#7907;p tác r&#7845;t nghiêm túc trong l&#297;nh v&#7921;c k&#7929; thu&#7853;t hàng h&#7843;i và chúng tôi - v&#7899;i c&#432;&#417;ng v&#7883; là nhà cung c&#7845;p các thi&#7871;t b&#7883; tàu ng&#7847;m h&#7843;i quân - th&#7845;y c&#7847;n thi&#7871;t ph&#7843;i m&#7903; &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n t&#7841;i Nha Trang.
> 
> - V&#7853;y &#273;âu là nh&#7919;ng ph&#432;&#417;ng h&#432;&#7899;ng ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng chính c&#7911;a T&#7893; h&#7907;p Avrora t&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t Nam?
> 
> - Chúng tôi &#273;ã thi&#7871;t k&#7871; xong d&#7921; án trung tâm hu&#7845;n luy&#7879;n thu&#7927; th&#7911; tàu ng&#7847;m, thi&#7871;t k&#7871; và s&#7843;n xu&#7845;t các ph&#432;&#417;ng ti&#7879;n k&#7929; thu&#7853;t &#273;&#7875; hu&#7845;n luy&#7879;n các th&#7911;y th&#7911;, trong &#273;ó &#273;áng k&#7875; là các mô hình mô ph&#7887;ng ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng c&#7911;a tàu ng&#7847;m. Avrora có kinh nghi&#7879;m 50 n&#259;m s&#7843;n xu&#7845;t các mô hình mô ph&#7887;ng, mà nh&#7901; &#273;ó các th&#7911;y th&#7911; s&#7869; &#273;&#432;&#7907;c làm quen v&#7899;i nh&#7919;ng thi&#7871;t b&#7883; k&#7929; thu&#7853;t &#273;&#432;&#7907;c l&#7855;p &#273;&#7863;t trên tàu ng&#7847;m. H&#7885; s&#7869; h&#7885;c và n&#7855;m v&#7919;ng các k&#7929; n&#259;ng &#273;i&#7873;u khi&#7875;n tàu ng&#7847;m, k&#7929; n&#259;ng s&#7917; d&#7909;ng các khí tài và &#273;&#7843;m b&#7843;o v&#7853;n hành an toàn tàu ng&#7847;m.
> 
> T&#432;&#417;ng lai, chúng tôi s&#7869; thành l&#7853;p c&#417; s&#7903; b&#7843;o d&#432;&#7905;ng, s&#7917;a ch&#7919;a, thay th&#7871; các trang thi&#7871;t b&#7883; do chúng tôi cung c&#7845;p.
> 
> - Bên c&#7841;nh h&#7907;p tác trong l&#297;nh v&#7921;c qu&#7889;c phòng, ông có th&#7845;y ti&#7873;m n&#259;ng nào trong ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng kinh doanh c&#7911;a Avrora trong l&#297;nh v&#7921;c hàng h&#7843;i dân s&#7921; &#7903; Vi&#7879;t Nam không?
> 
> - T&#7893; h&#7907;p c&#7911;a chúng tôi bao g&#7891;m h&#417;n 10 công ty và chúng tôi quan tâm t&#7899;i vi&#7879;c cung c&#7845;p cho Vi&#7879;t Nam nh&#7919;ng s&#7843;n ph&#7849;m có th&#7875; &#273;&#432;&#7907;c trang b&#7883; cho b&#7845;t c&#7913; lo&#7841;i tàu bi&#7875;n nào. &#272;ó có th&#7875; là các tàu dùng trong th&#259;m dò, khai thác d&#7847;u khí; tàu v&#7853;n t&#7843;i các lo&#7841;i. Avrora cung c&#7845;p các h&#7879; th&#7889;ng &#273;i&#7873;u khi&#7875;n tích h&#7907;p tàu bi&#7875;n cho th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng hàng h&#7843;i Nga và nhi&#7873;u n&#432;&#7899;c, nên t&#7845;t nhiên chúng tôi mu&#7889;n tìm hi&#7875;u kh&#7843; n&#259;ng &#7913;ng d&#7909;ng các s&#7843;n ph&#7849;m &#273;ó cho c&#7843; hàng h&#7843;i dân s&#7921;. M&#7897;t trong nh&#7919;ng m&#7909;c tiêu c&#7911;a vi&#7879;c m&#7903; v&#259;n phòng &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n t&#7841;i &#273;ây chính là nghiên c&#7913;u th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng Vi&#7879;t Nam. Chúng tôi mu&#7889;n tìm hi&#7875;u ngành &#273;óng tàu c&#7911;a Vi&#7879;t Nam và thi&#7871;t l&#7853;p quan h&#7879; v&#7899;i lãnh &#273;&#7841;o các nhà máy &#273;óng tàu.
> 
> - Avrora có th&#7913; h&#7841;ng nh&#432; th&#7871; nào trong ngành công nghi&#7879;p tàu bi&#7875;n &#7903; Nga?
> 
> - Trong m&#7897;t s&#7889; l&#297;nh v&#7921;c, Avrora gi&#7919; v&#7883; th&#7871; &#273;&#7897;c tôn. Chúng tôi là doanh nghi&#7879;p duy nh&#7845;t &#7903; Nga chuyên v&#7873; t&#7921; &#273;&#7897;ng hóa các lò ph&#7843;n &#7913;ng h&#7841;t nhân, t&#7845;t c&#7843; các tàu ng&#7847;m h&#7841;t nhân mà Nga hi&#7879;n có &#273;&#7873;u &#273;&#432;&#7907;c t&#7921; &#273;&#7897;ng hóa b&#7903;i Avrora. Nga còn s&#7843;n xu&#7845;t các tàu phá b&#259;ng nguyên t&#7917; và h&#7879; th&#7889;ng hoa tiêu &#273;&#7883;nh v&#7883; c&#7911;a các tàu này c&#361;ng do Avrora t&#7921; &#273;&#7897;ng hóa. Bên c&#7841;nh &#273;ó thì c&#361;ng có nh&#7919;ng l&#297;nh v&#7921;c mà Avrora ph&#7843;i c&#7841;nh tranh trên th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng nh&#432; vi&#7879;c tham gia xây d&#7921;ng các nhà máy &#273;i&#7879;n h&#7841;t nhân. &#272;ây là m&#7897;t th&#7883; ph&#7847;n r&#7845;t nh&#7887;, nh&#432;ng chúng tôi c&#361;ng theo &#273;u&#7893;i, ch&#7859;ng h&#7841;n nh&#432; vi&#7879;c xây d&#7921;ng nhà máy &#273;i&#7879;n h&#7841;t nhân n&#7893;i &#273;&#7847;u tiên &#7903; Nga.
> 
> - Ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng kinh doanh c&#7911;a Avrora có lãi không - trong b&#7889;i c&#7843;nh kh&#7911;ng ho&#7843;ng kinh t&#7871; th&#7871; gi&#7899;i hi&#7879;n nay?
> 
> - Kh&#7911;ng ho&#7843;ng không tác &#273;&#7897;ng t&#7899;i l&#297;nh v&#7921;c mà chúng tôi ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng. Công nghi&#7879;p &#273;óng tàu và m&#7897;t nhánh c&#7911;a nó là &#273;óng tàu quân s&#7921; v&#7851;n phát tri&#7875;n m&#7841;nh. T&#7893; h&#7907;p c&#7911;a chúng tôi v&#7851;n m&#7903; r&#7897;ng s&#7843;n xu&#7845;t h&#7857;ng n&#259;m và &#273;&#7841;t m&#7913;c t&#259;ng tr&#432;&#7903;ng n&#259;m sau cao h&#417;n n&#259;m tr&#432;&#7899;c t&#7915; 20-25%. Và &#273;ây là m&#7913;c t&#259;ng tr&#432;&#7903;ng &#7893;n &#273;&#7883;nh trong 5 n&#259;m tr&#7903; l&#7841;i &#273;ây. Avrora ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng có lãi và v&#7919;ng ch&#7855;c v&#7873; tài chính. V&#7899;i nh&#7919;ng h&#7907;p &#273;&#7891;ng mà chúng tôi hi&#7879;n có thì doanh thu &#273;&#7841;t &#7903; m&#7913;c g&#7847;n 1 t&#7881; USD.
> 
> - Và ông tin r&#7857;ng ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng &#7903; Vi&#7879;t Nam c&#361;ng s&#7869; có lãi?
> 
> - T&#7845;t nhiên, chúng tôi là doanh nghi&#7879;p, nên m&#7897;t trong nh&#7919;ng nhi&#7879;m v&#7909; là ph&#7843;i t&#7841;o ra lãi vì l&#7907;i ích c&#7911;a các c&#7893; &#273;ông. C&#7893; &#273;ông l&#7899;n nh&#7845;t c&#7911;a chúng tôi là nhà n&#432;&#7899;c. M&#7897;t khi &#273;ã &#273;&#7871;n &#273;ây &#273;&#7875; kinh doanh thì không th&#7875; không tin là mình s&#7869; thu &#273;&#432;&#7907;c l&#7907;i nhu&#7853;n. Nh&#432;ng cá nhân tôi và t&#7853;p th&#7875; lãnh &#273;&#7841;o Avrora &#273;&#7873;u cho r&#7857;ng l&#297;nh v&#7921;c mà chúng tôi h&#7907;p tác v&#7899;i Vi&#7879;t Nam không ph&#7843;i là kinh doanh &#273;&#417;n thu&#7847;n. C&#7843; h&#7843;i quân Vi&#7879;t Nam - &#273;&#7889;i tác c&#7911;a chúng tôi - l&#7851;n chúng tôi &#273;&#7873;u có nhi&#7879;m v&#7909; chính tr&#7883; trong s&#7921; h&#7907;p tác này.
> 
> - Avrora m&#7903; &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n &#273;&#7847;u tiên t&#7841;i &#7844;n &#272;&#7897;, m&#7903; &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n th&#7913; hai t&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t Nam. Trong khi &#7844;n &#272;&#7897; là th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng c&#7921;c l&#7899;n, thì Vi&#7879;t Nam l&#7841;i là m&#7897;t th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng nh&#7887;. Ph&#7843;i ch&#259;ng Vi&#7879;t Nam &#273;&#432;&#7907;c coi là &#273;i&#7875;m &#273;&#7875; Avrora m&#7903; r&#7897;ng ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng ra th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng &#272;ông Nam Á?
> 
> - Không, chúng tôi không tính &#273;&#7871;n vi&#7879;c m&#7903; r&#7897;ng th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng ra khu v&#7921;c &#272;ông Nam Á. Chúng tôi m&#7903; &#273;&#7841;i di&#7879;n t&#7841;i &#7844;n &#272;&#7897; vì th&#7845;y ngành xây d&#7921;ng tàu bi&#7875;n &#7903; &#7844;n &#272;&#7897; phát tri&#7875;n v&#7899;i t&#7889;c &#273;&#7897; nh&#432; v&#361; bão. &#7844;n &#272;&#7897; có nh&#7919;ng nhà máy &#273;óng tàu bi&#7875;n c&#7921;c l&#7899;n và chúng tôi tham gia vào các cu&#7897;c &#273;&#7845;u th&#7847;u, c&#7841;nh tranh v&#7899;i nh&#7919;ng &#273;&#7889;i th&#7911; s&#7915;ng s&#7887; t&#7847;m c&#7905; th&#7871; gi&#7899;i &#273;&#7875; giành quy&#7873;n cung c&#7845;p s&#7843;n ph&#7849;m c&#7911;a chúng tôi. *Còn t&#7841;i Vi&#7879;t Nam, chúng tôi nh&#7853;n th&#7845;y nh&#7919;ng k&#7871; ho&#7841;ch r&#7845;t nghiêm túc nh&#7857;m xây d&#7921;ng m&#7897;t h&#7841;m &#273;&#7897;i h&#7843;i quân m&#7841;nh*. Bên c&#7841;nh &#273;ó, ngành công nghi&#7879;p &#273;óng tàu Vi&#7879;t Nam trong nh&#7919;ng n&#259;m qua &#273;ã giành &#273;&#432;&#7907;c nh&#7919;ng h&#7907;p &#273;&#7891;ng &#273;óng tàu quan tr&#7885;ng c&#7911;a các &#273;&#7889;i tác n&#432;&#7899;c ngoài. Chính vì nh&#7919;ng &#273;i&#7873;u &#273;ó mà chúng tôi nh&#7853;n th&#7845;y Vi&#7879;t Nam là m&#7897;t th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng có ti&#7873;m n&#259;ng l&#7899;n trong t&#432;&#417;ng lai và quy&#7871;t &#273;&#7883;nh thâm nh&#7853;p th&#7883; tr&#432;&#7901;ng này.
> 
> - Xin c&#7843;m &#417;n ông!
> http://laodong.com.vn/the-gioi/hop-tac-voi-viet-nam-khong-phai-la-kinh-doanh-don-thuan/106279.bld









interview Mr. Konstantin Shilov - General of the Defense Avrora (Russia): "Cooperation with Vietnam is not a mere business"

- Avrora open representative first in India, opened a second representative in Vietnam. While India is a huge market, Vietnam is a small market. Is Viet Nam considered as a key for Avrora to expand tothe South East Asian market?

- No, we do not take into account the expansion of the Southeast Asia market. We open representative in India so that the Indian ship building industry developed with rushing speed. India has large shipbuilding plant and we participate in the auction, competing with world-class opponents stunned to win the right to offer our products. *In Vietnam*, w*e found very serious plans to build a powerful naval fleet*. Besides, the Vietnamese shipbuilding industry over the years has won the important shipbuilding contracts of foreign partners. Because of that, we found that Vietnam is a market with great potential in the future and decided to enter this market.
..........................

Seem like Avrora even can help VN to build Nuke-Sub if possible

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## Viet

Australia, Vietnam boost defence cooperation


Updated : 3/20/2013 10:45:23 AM







(VOV) - Vietnam wants *Australia *to increase cooperation in dealing with the consequences of bombs and mines and unexploded ordnance (UXO).

Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh emphasized this during talks with his Australian counterpart Stephen Smith in *Canberra *on March 19. He praised the constant development of the Vietnam-Australia comprehensive cooperation as a firm foundation for both sides to move toward *strategic partnership *in the near future.

Both sides should promote the regular exchange of high-level delegations between the two armies, Thanh said.


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Seem like [B]Avrora [/B]even can help VN to build Nuke-Sub if possible :D[/QUOTE]
> Avrora is not a submarine builder, it only provides combat information and control systems.
> 
> Anyway nuclear sub is a nice thing, but costs three times more than a [B]Kilo [/B]diesel sub, so instead of $0.5bn, you need $1.5bn, such as for a [B]Akula-class[/B] submarine:
> 
> [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Submarine_Vepr_by_Ilya_Kurganov_crop.jpg

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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> Avrora is not a submarine builder, it only provides combat information and control systems.
> 
> Anyway nuclear sub is a nice thing, but costs three times more than a *Kilo *diesel sub, so instead of $0.5bn, you need $1.5bn, such as for a *Akula-class* submarine:


nuke-sub is a strong deterrence.as zAvrora said that they would help VN to build a strong naval fleet,then nuke-sub is the best toy for our navy now.

As u know,We bought those Kilos subs on Credit,so Pls dont think much abt its price coz if we cant buy it by hard cash even if its cheaper than Kilos.if Russia wanna sell nuke sub to VN,they will sell on credit,too


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## Malaya

Press release
20 March 2013

Ministry for Foreign Affairs

*EU establishes partnership and cooperation agreements with the Philippines and Vietnam
*

*The Government today presented two bills to the Riksdag dealing with the EU's relations with the Philippines and Vietnam.*

*The Philippines*

A partnership and cooperation agreement is to establish a framework for relations with the Philippines. The agreement concerns cooperation in a broad spectrum of areas, such as:

human rights
non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction
trade and investment
migration
development cooperation
environment and climate change
science

The agreement contains a legal commitment on both sides regarding the respect of human rights and obligations with regard to the non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. The partnership agreement with the Philippines may also constitute the framework for potential future negotiations on a free trade agreement with the country.

*Vietnam*

A partnership and cooperation agreement is to establish a framework for relations with Vietnam. The agreement concerns cooperation in a broad spectrum of areas, such as:

development cooperation
non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction
trade and investment
migration
education
environment and climate change
human rights

The agreement contains a legal commitment on both sides regarding the respect of human rights and obligations with regard to the non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. The agreement is also intended to constitute the framework for the ongoing negotiations on a free trade agreement with Vietnam.

EU establishes partnership and cooperation agreements with the Philippines and Vietnam

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## NiceGuy

> n&#432;&#7899;c t&#7841;o l&#7853;p l&#7921;c l&#432;&#7907;ng h&#7843;i quân ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng trên c&#417; s&#7903; th&#432;&#7901;ng tr&#7921;c &#7903; vùng bi&#7875;n Thái Bình D&#432;&#417;ng và &#7844;n &#272;&#7897; D&#432;&#417;ng.
> 
> &#7842;nh: RIA Novosti
> &#7842;nh: RIA Novosti
> 
> 
> "Trong l&#7883;ch s&#7917; H&#7843;i quân t&#7915;ng có kinh nghi&#7879;m, khi chúng ta có các h&#7843;i &#273;&#7897;i &#7903; &#7844;n &#272;&#7897; D&#432;&#417;ng và Thái Bình D&#432;&#417;ng. Hi&#7875;n nhiên, n&#7871;u c&#7847;n thi&#7871;t, chúng tôi s&#7869; &#273;&#7873; xu&#7845;t v&#7899;i B&#7897; Qu&#7889;c phòng, Chính ph&#7911; và T&#7893;ng th&#7889;ng &#273;&#7875; t&#7841;i &#273;ó hi&#7879;n di&#7879;n các &#273;&#417;n v&#7883; tác chi&#7871;n trên c&#417; s&#7903; th&#432;&#7901;ng tr&#7921;c&#8221;, - &#272;ô &#273;&#7889;c V.Chirkov cho bi&#7871;t trong cu&#7897;c ph&#7887;ng v&#7845;n c&#7911;a kênh truy&#7873;n hình "Zvezda".
> 
> Nh&#432; &#273;ã thông báo, ông Viktor Ozerov &#273;&#7913;ng &#273;&#7847;u &#7910;y ban Qu&#7889;c phòng và An ninh thu&#7897;c H&#7897;i &#273;&#7891;ng Liên bang tr&#432;&#7899;c &#273;ó &#273;ã tuyên b&#7889; &#7911;ng h&#7897; ý t&#432;&#7903;ng khôi ph&#7909;c l&#7921;c l&#432;&#7907;ng c&#7911;a H&#7843;i quân Nga làm nhi&#7879;m v&#7909; th&#432;&#7901;ng tr&#7921;c trong khu v&#7921;c chi&#7871;n l&#432;&#7907;c quan tr&#7885;ng c&#7911;a &#273;&#7841;i d&#432;&#417;ng th&#7871; gi&#7899;i.
> 
> "Chúng tôi &#7911;ng h&#7897; tuy&#7871;n chi&#7871;n l&#432;&#7907;c c&#7911;a ban lãnh &#273;&#7841;o &#273;&#7845;t n&#432;&#7899;c &#273;&#7875; khôi ph&#7909;c hi&#7879;n di&#7879;n c&#7911;a H&#7843;i quân Nga trong &#273;&#7841;i d&#432;&#417;ng th&#7871; gi&#7899;i. Chúng tôi mu&#7889;n ph&#7909;c h&#7891;i c&#417; s&#7903; h&#7843;i quân c&#361; &#7903; Vi&#7879;t Nam. Chúng tôi s&#7861;n sàng phát tri&#7875;n s&#7921; hi&#7879;n di&#7879;n c&#7911;a Nga c&#7843; trong nh&#7919;ng vùng bi&#7875;n và &#273;&#7841;i d&#432;&#417;ng khác...", - ông V.Ozerov nêu ý ki&#7871;n hôm 14 tháng Ba trong quá trình cu&#7897;c g&#7863;p v&#7899;i các Tùy viên quân s&#7921; các n&#432;&#7899;c &#7903; Nga.
> T


"*We want to restore the old naval base in Vietnam*.We are ready to develop Russia's presence in the sea and other ocean ... "- Commander of the Russian Navy, Admiral Viktor Chirkov said

Chirkov also said that in case of necessity the Russian Navy Command would suggest that the country's leadership to create naval forces operating on a permanent basis in the waters of the Pacific and Indian Oceans.





Photo: RIA Novosti


"In the history of the Navy ever experienced, when we have the fleet in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. Obviously, if necessary, we will propose to the Ministry of Defense, Government and the President to in which the presence of combat units on a permanent basis ", - Admiral V.Chirkov said in an interview of the TV channel" Zvezda ".

As previously announced, Mr. Viktor Ozerov, head of the Defense and Security Committee of the Federal Council had previously declared support the idea of &#8203;&#8203;restoring forces of the Russian Navy permanent duty in strategic areas importance of the world's oceans.

"We support the strategic lines of the national leadership to restore the Russian Navy's presence in the world's oceans. We want to restore the old naval base in Vietnam. We are ready to develop the Russia's presence in the sea and other ocean ... "- he V.Ozerov raise comments on 14 March during a meeting with the military attaché in Russia. 
.......




Tu-142 in Cam Ranh base before 1990
China-US will jump up and down like before 1990 soon


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## Viet

No doubt, nuclear sub is a mighty toy. However, diesel sub with air-independent propulsion (AIP) is a good choice, too, and cheaper, such as the Amur-class sub.






http://submarinersworld.blogspot.de/2012/06/vietnam-to-buy-amur-diesel-submarines.html

As for Camranh, according to Russian General Sergei Shoigu, the expansion of the bay will be completed in 5 years.


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## Viet

Conducting shooting down fighter aircraft drill


8:54 PM KIM THUY TRAN NO COMMENTS
Jan 20, 2013- Vnesea

Spratly Island Sand Cay (Vietnamese: &#272;&#7843;o S&#417;n Ca)

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## Viet

High-ranking military delegation visits Germany


Updated : 3/22/2013 9:33:52 AM












A high-level military delegation led by Deputy Minister of National Defence Nguyen Chi Vinh paid a three-day working visit to Germany from March 19. 

Vinh held talks with *Secretary of State of German Defence Ministry *Ruediger Wolf and paid a courtesy visit to Germany Defence Minister Thomas de Maiziere on March 21. 

The two sides expressed their wishes to enhance bilateral army cooperation suitable to the two countries&#8217; *strategic partnership*, focusing on maintaining annual deputy ministerial level dialogue mechanism, exchanging delegations, and training officers on languages. 

They will also cooperate with and support each other at defence &#8211; security multilateral forms and mechanisms and during Vietnam&#8217;s preparation to take part in *UN peace-keeping activities*. Bilateral cooperation in the defence industry will be boosted as well. 

They agreed to sign a Memorandum of Understanding on bilateral defence cooperation in the time to come.

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## Viet

North Korean experts train Vietnamese police


TUOITRENEWS A+ A-
Updated : Sat, March 23, 2013,10:27 AM (GMT+0700)








Experts from the Democratic People's Republic of Koreas Ministry of Peoples Security have completed a *four-month training course* for 98 trainees from mobile police and task force units across Vietnam.

The course, which ended in a closing ceremony held yesterday in the barracks of Task Force Battalion No. 2 in Ho Chi Minh Citys District 9, is part of a cooperation program between the DPRK Ministry of Peoples Security and the Vietnamese Ministry of Public Security.

During the course, which lasted from November 2012 to March 2013 under the coordination of the battalion, *North Korean experts taught trainees in military knowledge and martial arts*.

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## Viet

Vietnam, New Zealand agree to lift defence ties


VNA A+ A-
Updated : Sat, March 23, 2013,10:45 AM (GMT+0700)







Vietnamese and *New Zealand Defence Ministers* have agreed to work so as to elevate bilateral defence cooperation to a new level with the early signing of a defence cooperation agreement.

The agreement was reached at talks between visiting Vietnamese Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh and his New Zealand counterpart Jonathan Coleman following an official welcome ceremony on March 21 in Wellington city.

Both sides should exchange delegations at all levels, cooperation in English training, set up a deputy minister-level dialogue mechanism, and exchange experiences in military services with a focus on navy cooperation, said Thanh.

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## ViXuyen

Visit to Japan, don't know if it was posted or not.

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## Viet

5Star said:


> Visit to Japan, don't know if it was posted or not.


Nice. Do you have info when and where the pics were taken?


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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> Nice. Do you have info when and where the pics were taken?


I got it from here
LOVE VIETNAM | Tôi yêu Vi

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## Evgeny

Zelenodolsk shipyard, Russia will build 2 more Gepard 3.9 class stealth frigates for Vietnam Navy.
Work on the first ship will begin in June 2013.






Vietnam Navy will receive ships in 2016 and 2017.
Both ships will be built with antisubmarine features.

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## Capt.Popeye

Evgeny said:


> Zelenodolsk shipyard, Russia will build 2 more Gepard 3.9 class stealth frigates for Vietnam Navy.
> Work on the first ship will begin in June 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Navy will receive ships in 2016 and 2017.
> Both ships will be built with antisubmarine features.



Good News for Viet Nam. They will add more punch to the Vietnamese Navy and help to secure Vietnamese assets in the East Sea area.

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## ViXuyen

$300 millions for these two ships, I personally perfer 4 Su-35 insead


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## BDforever

5Star said:


> $300 millions for these two ships, I personally perfer 4 Su-35 insead



hey @5Star, i have a question for you, do Vietnamese hate China ?


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## Evgeny

5Star said:


> $300 millions for these two ships, I personally perfer 4 Su-35 insead



If you are patient, in 5-7 years you will be able to buy 4 Sukhoi PAK FA instead of 2 Gepards

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## BDforever

Evgeny said:


> If you are patient, in 5-7 years you will be able to buy 4 Sukhoi PAK FA instead of 2 Gepards



Sell to us too


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## Evgeny

BDforever said:


> Sell to us too



Why not? You are welcome! Please buy several You are buying Russian helicopters, surface to air rockets and BTR APCs at the moment.

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## BDforever

Evgeny said:


> Why not? You are welcome! Please buy several You are buying Russian helicopters, surface to air rockets and BTR APCs at the moment.



our tie with each other increasing more, right now both russia and china helping us to built our first light attack and training aircraft by 2021


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## Evgeny

BDforever said:


> our tie with each other increasing more, right now both russia and china helping us to built our first light attack and training aircraft by 2021




Let's cooperate!

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## hurt

Capt.Popeye said:


> Good News for Viet Nam. They will add more punch to the Vietnamese Navy and help to secure Vietnamese assets in the East Sea area.



Yes,They will sink in csc as Vietnamese assets


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## Evgeny

Evgeny said:


> Let's cooperate!



And Russia have training and light attack jet already Please try it







Yak 130

or perfect attack jet, Su 25


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## hurt

Evgeny said:


> And Russia have training and light attack jet already Please try it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yak 130
> 
> or perfect attack jet, Su 25



It maybe too Expensive for BD, same cost can buy a JF-17


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## Evgeny

hurt said:


> It maybe too Expensive for BD, same cost can buy a JF-17



JF17 is a fighter, Su25 is attack jet.


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## BDforever

hurt said:


> It maybe too Expensive for BD, same cost can buy a JF-17


 @Evgeny we already have ordered 16 yak 130 , will arrive by 2014

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## Evgeny

Perfect!!!

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## hurt

Evgeny said:


> JF17 is a fighter, Su25 is attack jet.



Multirole combat aircraft better than attack jet for Small Air Force.

Yak 130 is better than Su 25 for BD

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## Evgeny

hurt said:


> Multirole combat aircraft better than attack jet for Small Air Force.
> 
> Yak 130 is better than Su 25 for BD



I thought we speak about trainer/attack jet
Of course you are right.

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## Contrarian

5Star said:


> $300 millions for these two ships, I personally perfer 4 Su-35 insead



Makes more sense to buy warships now, wait for a while and buy PAK-FA directly IF you donot already operate Su's.


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## Viet

Evgeny said:


> If you are patient, in 5-7 years you will be able to buy 4 *Sukhoi PAK* FA instead of 2 Gepards


Nice news. I think when Vietnam PM visits Russia this year, we may see more deals. No, we need urgently more frigates, subs and destroyers, not fighter jets.



hurt said:


> Yes,They will *sink *in the East Sea area as Vietnamese assets


The frigates are destined to sink enemy submarines, you know.

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## BDforever

Viva_Viet said:


> No we don't. just bcz we have fertile land, crucial ship lane passing by, and we don't wanna share with a billion of poor Chinese living in barren and polluted land coz they will exploit everything , that's all


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## Viet

The Gepard frigates of Vietnam Navy

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## zxmint

Evgeny said:


> Why not? You are welcome! Please buy several You are buying Russian helicopters, surface to air rockets and BTR APCs at the moment.


I really suspect that China is promoting your weapon sales...



hurt said:


> Yes,They will sink in the East Sea area as Vietnamese assets


I am sorry but you said East Sea? How could Viet Navy reach that far? Or they also claim sovereignty to Diaoyu Islands?


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## zxmint

NiceGuy said:


> nuke-sub is a strong deterrence.as zAvrora said that they would help VN to build a strong naval fleet,then nuke-sub is the best toy for our navy now.
> 
> As u know,We bought those Kilos subs on Credit,so Pls dont think much abt its price coz if we cant buy it by hard cash even if its cheaper than Kilos.if Russia wanna sell nuke sub to VN,they will sell on credit,too



Have you ever heard any country in the world sell nuclear submarines? Why don't Russians sell nuke missiles to you directly? 

"Too young, too simple, sometimes naive.... "


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## zxmint

Evgeny said:


> Well, it is better not to make China and US nervous by bringing strategic bombers to Vietnam



It seems Russian military forces are still so warm welcomed to come to Viet~~~. We Chinese would not be quite against that actually.


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## ViXuyen

Evgeny said:


> If you are patient, in 5-7 years you will be able to buy 4 Sukhoi PAK FA instead of 2 Gepards


I would say in 7 years, we will have 2 billion USD for PAKFA. I see PAKFA in service of Vietnam's Airforce in the early 2020's. However, before PAKFA come into service, I'm near certain that Viet Nam will buy Su35 in the next couple of years (2015 maybe). 



BDforever said:


> hey @5Star, i have a question for you, do Vietnamese hate China ?


Some do hate but I would say most are neutral toward China because most of us do not know much about China to even hate it.

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## visom

5Star said:


> Some do hate but I would say most are neutral toward China because most of us do not know much about China to even hate it.



This forum is just a place where all the chinese that do hate vietnamese and all the Vietnamese that hates Chinese gather to meet... in the US most chinese and vietnamese get along perfectly fine, some of my best friends are chinese


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## EastSea

Russia Su 27 and IL 76 in Noi Bai Airport at transit to Air Show in Malaysia 26/3.
















??i tiêm kích Nga xu?t hi?n trên không ph?n Vi?t Nam - Doi tiem kich Nga xuat hien tren khong phan Viet Nam - DVO - Báo ??t Vi?t

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## Evgeny

zxmint said:


> I really suspect that China is promoting your weapon sales...



Yes, of course, thank you, China
For promoting and buying our weaponry!



5Star said:


> I would say in 7 years, we will have 2 billion USD for PAKFA. I see PAKFA in service of Vietnam's Airforce in the early 2020's. However, before PAKFA come into service, I'm near certain that Viet Nam will buy Su35 in the next couple of years (2015 maybe).



Possibly. Su35 is at the moment the second to the best in world, F22.


----------



## Evgeny

zxmint said:


> It seems Russian military forces are still so warm welcomed to come to Viet~~~. We Chinese would not be quite against that actually.



It seems Russian forces are welcome to China also to take part in military exercises


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## Viet

@Evgeny 

I just wonder why Russia will take until 2016 and 2017 before delivering of the third and fourth frigate respectively. In other source, it said Vietnam would receive in 2014 and 2015?


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## Evgeny

Viet said:


> @Evgeny
> 
> I just wonder why Russia will take until 2016 and 2017 before delivering of the third and fourth frigate respectively. In other source, it said Vietnam would receive in 2014 and 2015?



The very first contract for 2 Gepards was signed in 2006, Vietnam received ships in 2010 and 2011.
The actual contact was signed in 2011, ships will be received in 2016 and 2017.
And they can't build the first Gepard in 1 year, in 2014, since they begin work in July 2013.
Possibly details were unsolved till this year.
2011-2014
2013-2016?
Zelenodolsk shipyard has more ordres that it did in 2006-11, I think.
Russian Navy buy Gepards also.

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## Viet

visom said:


> This forum is just a place where all the chinese that do hate vietnamese and all the *Vietnamese that hates Chinese* gather to meet...


You are wrong. This forum is for discussion, collecting useful as well as unuseful information, trolling, exchanging opinions, ect...
This place reflects and shows some certain aspects of reality but it is not an exclusive place for haters.


visom said:


> in the US *most chinese and vietnamese get along perfectly fine*, some of my best friends are chinese


the picture is similar to other places in the world such as Germany, France, Australia or elsewhere.


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## Soryu

visom said:


> This forum is just a place where all the chinese that do hate vietnamese and all the Vietnamese that hates Chinese gather to meet... in the US most chinese and vietnamese get along perfectly fine, some of my best friends are chinese


Wrong, I hate some arrogant and stupid.....


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## Soryu

Vietnam's Su-30MK2

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## zxmint

Evgeny said:


> It seems Russian forces are welcome to China also to take part in military exercises


After China's new President Xi's visiting, China and Russia are actually in a quasi alliance now. The situation is serious now in Syria and East China Sea so we really need to form an alliance like this to strengthen our connections and cooperation to against our common enemies.


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## EastSea

zxmint said:


> After China's new President Xi's visiting, China and Russia are actually in a quasi alliance now. The situation is serious now in Syria and East China Sea so we really need to form an alliance like this to strengthen our connections and cooperation to against our common enemies.



Problem is mentality of Chinese is unstable, she change his friend and enemy very quickly, Russian known it very well. Russian are not easy to be cheat by Chinese.

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## ViXuyen

Su30 training

Su-30MK2 xu

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## zxmint

EastSea said:


> Problem is mentality of Chinese is unstable, she change his friend and enemy very quickly, Russian known it very well. Russian are not easy to be cheat by Chinese.



Am I talking to you? You do not need to show off that you know nothing but to be anti-China. But it's your freedom to make yourself and your countrymen look like fools.


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## Evgeny

EastSea said:


> Problem is mentality of Chinese is unstable, she change his friend and enemy very quickly, Russian known it very well. Russian are not easy to be cheat by Chinese.



China is not just a country. China is mini world itself and China doesn't need anyone to be her ally .
In some aspects China is ally for Russia, in some - for anybody else.

Vietnam is the only natural friend of Russia in the region



5Star said:


> Su30 training
> 
> Su-30MK2 xu



A little bit of PAK FA, if I can

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## Soryu

Evgeny said:


> China is not just a country. China is mini world itself and China doesn't need anyone to be her ally .
> In some aspects China is ally for Russia, in some - for anybody else.
> 
> Vietnam is the only natural friend of Russia in the region
> 
> A little bit of PAK FA, if I can


Nice plane, I alway like this... 

Well, Russia - China - Vietnam can be good friend and even ally like past, but let remember some lesson from old time ... 

I don't hate China just because some bullshjt guys so arrogant and idiot about Vietnam - China relationship. It's natural for them feel angry when they can't ran away from the true.


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## Evgeny

Soryu said:


> Nice plane, I alway like this...
> 
> Well, Russia - China - Vietnam can be good friend and even ally like past, but let remember some lesson from old time ...
> 
> I don't hate China just because some bullshjt guys so arrogant and idiot about Vietnam - China relationship. It's natural for them feel angry when they can't ran away from the true.



China is that big, so she has only interests. China doesn't need allies.






PAK FA and Su 35S.

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## ViXuyen

Evgeny,

What is the realistic time frame for S-400 to be exported?


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## peaceful

5Star said:


> Evgeny,
> 
> What is the realistic time frame for S-400 to be exported?



why bother buying something that you can't even maintain? 

another important fact to thing about is China is 150km away from your capital, do you think s-400 can stop our tanks?

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## ViXuyen

peaceful said:


> why bother buying something that you can't even maintain?
> 
> another important fact to thing about is China is 150km away from your capital, do you think s-400 can stop our tanks?



We're still flying the Mig21 after 50 years, now talk about maintaince.

S-400 can't stop your tanks but RPG-29 sure can; imagine 100,000 of those RPG-29 flying toward your tanks

Our capital is 150 km away from China is actually a good thing because it gives our troops no incentives to retreat and all the incentives to stand our ground; making the fight much worse for you guys. FACT is, throughout history, we have moved our capital closer to the border with China then moving it further away.


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## selvan33

*Russia to Deliver First Kilo Class Sub to Vietnam in 2013
*






The first of six Varshavyanka class (Project 636M) diesel-electric submarines will be delivered to Vietnam in 2013 as scheduled, the submarine designer said on Friday.

The Varshavyanka class is an improved version of the Kilo class submarines, featuring advanced stealth technology, extended combat range and ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets.

The first vessel is undergoing sea trials. It will be delivered to Vietnam this year, Rubin design bureau general director Igor Vilnit told reporters at the LIMA-2013 arms show in Malaysia.

Vietnam ordered a fleet of six Russian-made submarines in 2009 in a step seen as an effort to counterbalance Chinas expanding maritime influence in the region. The contract, which also stipulates the training of Vietnamese submarine crews in Russia, is reportedly worth $2 billion.

Vilnit says construction on the craft is going according to the schedule specified in the contract.

The submarines are being built at the Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard in St. Petersburg. All six boats are due for delivery by 2016.

The Project 636 class boats displace 3,100 tons, reach speeds of 20 knots, can dive to 300 meters and carry crews of 52 people.

The submarines, which feature 533-milimeter torpedo tubes and are armed with torpedos, mines, and Kalibr 3M54 (NATO SS-N-27 Sizzler) cruise missiles, are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

*SOURCE: RIA NOVOSTI*

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## IND151

he first of six Varshavyanka class (Project 636M) diesel-electric submarines will be delivered to Vietnam in 2013 as scheduled, the submarine designer said on Friday.

The Varshavyanka class is an improved version of the Kilo class submarines, featuring advanced stealth technology, extended combat range and ability to strike land, surface and underwater targets.

&#8220;The first vessel is undergoing sea trials. It will be delivered to Vietnam this year,&#8221; Rubin design bureau general director Igor Vilnit told reporters at the LIMA-2013 arms show in Malaysia.

Vietnam ordered a fleet of six Russian-made submarines in 2009 in a step seen as an effort to counterbalance China&#8217;s expanding maritime influence in the region. The contract, which also stipulates the training of Vietnamese submarine crews in Russia, is reportedly worth $2 billion.

Vilnit says construction on the craft is going according to the schedule specified in the contract.

The submarines are being built at the Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard in St. Petersburg. All six boats are due for delivery by 2016.

The Project 636 class boats displace 3,100 tons, reach speeds of 20 knots, can dive to 300 meters and carry crews of 52 people.

The submarines, which feature 533-milimeter torpedo tubes and are armed with torpedos, mines, and Kalibr 3M54 (NATO SS-N-27 Sizzler) cruise missiles, are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

Russia to Deliver First Kilo Class Sub to Vietnam in 2013 | idrw.org

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## Viet

Cambodia, Vietnam ink defence cooperation plan

Updated : 3/30/2013 9:24:56 AM






Vietnam and Cambodia will further boost defence ties under a cooperation plan for 2013.

The cooperation plan, between the two countries&#8217; defence ministries, was signed on March 29 in Ho Chi Minh City, in the presence of Minister of Defence General Phung Quang Thanh and his Cambodian counterpart Tea Banh.

Under the plan, the two ministries will intensify exchanges of delegations of all levels, experience sharing in military building, staff training, and naval joint patrol.

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## EastSea

peaceful said:


> why bother buying something that you can't even maintain?
> 
> another important fact to thing about is China is 150km away from your capital, do you think s-400 can stop *our tanks*?



you are idiot.
The S-400 Triumf (Russian: C-400 «&#1058;&#1088;&#1080;&#1091;&#1084;&#1092;») is a new generation *anti-aircraft weapon system* developed by Russia's Almaz Central Design Bureau as an upgrade of the S-300 family. It is currently in limited service with the Russian Armed Forces.

We have S 300 system soon.


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## walle

5Star said:


> We're still flying the Mig21 after 50 years, now talk about maintaince.
> 
> S-400 can't stop your tanks but RPG-29 sure can; imagine 100,000 of those RPG-29 flying toward your tanks
> 
> Our capital is 150 km away from China is actually a good thing because it gives our troops no incentives to retreat and all the incentives to stand our ground; making the fight much worse for you guys. FACT is, throughout history, we have moved our capital closer to the border with China then moving it further away.



actually within 150km china can just shell your capital with basic artillery, send up a few ballistic missiles onto your airfields and ports. China has the dough and industrial capacity to continue to shell vietnam for a few decades, ask yourself what will be the city be like after only a week. What will be your troops' incentives then?

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## Viet

thanks...but already posted in Vietnam Military News & Discussion


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## EastSea

Our submarine soldiers are traning in Russa for new 6 kilos, 2 will be transfer to end of this year,

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## Viet

peaceful said:


> another important fact to thing about is China is 150km away from your capital, do you think s-400 can stop* our tanks*?


LOL...You name is peaceful?
Your tanks? not aware that HK has tanks or do you mean Taiwanese ones?


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## ViXuyen

walle said:


> actually within 150km china can just shell your capital with basic artillery, send up a few ballistic missiles onto your airfields and ports. China has the dough and industrial capacity to continue to shell vietnam for a few decades, ask yourself what will be the city be like after only a week. What will be your troops' incentives then?


If you hit Ha Noi, we will retaliate by hitting Shenzhen, Guanzhou, Hong Kong, Kunming, Nanning, Hainan back with our ballistic missiles; in this scenario, China will have more to lose than Viet Nam since those cities are way more modern than Ha Noi or anything in Viet Nam that we have.

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## EastSea

5Star said:


> If you hit Ha Noi, we will retaliate by hitting Shenzhen, Guanzhou, Hong Kong, Kunming, Nanning, Hainan back with our ballistic missiles; in this scenario, China will have more to lose than Viet Nam since those cities are way more modern than Ha Noi or anything in Viet Nam that we have.



SCUD of Vietnam is available from atime.

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## walle

5Star said:


> If you hit Ha Noi, we will retaliate by hitting Shenzhen, Guanzhou, Hong Kong, Kunming, Nanning, Hainan back with our ballistic missiles; in this scenario, China will have more to lose than Viet Nam since those cities are way more modern than Ha Noi or anything in Viet Nam that we have.



How exactly do you plan to do that? China can hit Vietnam with shock and awe, are you only going to retaliate with your 1960s SCUD? 

Ask yourself how effective were the SCUDs Iraqi fired, Libyans fired?

A lot of Viet posters live in a delusional world where you seem to think the Vietnamnese versions are either super effective or unique, when in fact its neither. Ask yourself, how many SCUDs do Vietnam have, how many can be protected from bombardment (to hit chinese cities they gotta be pretty damn close to the chinese border, right?) and finally how destructive are your most powerful warheads and their survival from bombardment.

China has alot of WS series rockets, they can be launching that **** all day and night. And China rebuilds fast, much of what you see today is probably built in the last 10years. Vietnam on the other hand will be set back a few decades.

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## EastSea

walle said:


> How exactly do you plan to do that? China can hit Vietnam with shock and awe, are you only going to retaliate with your 1960s SCUD?
> 
> Ask yourself how effective were the SCUDs Iraqi fired, Libyans fired?
> 
> A lot of Viet posters live in a delusional world where you seem to think the Vietnamnese versions are either super effective or unique, when in fact its neither. Ask yourself, how many SCUDs do Vietnam have, how many can be protected from bombardment (to hit chinese cities they gotta be pretty damn close to the chinese border, right?) and finally how destructive are your most powerful warheads and their survival from bombardment.
> 
> China has alot of WS series rockets, they can be launching that **** all day and night. And China rebuilds fast, much of what you see today is probably built in the last 10years. Vietnam on the other hand will be set back a few decades.



China today is far more backward in technology than US air-force of 1979s, US was loser in Christmas 1972 when they attacked on Hanoi with B-52 Bombardiers and with carpet bombing in North Vietnam in Vietnam war. You have to read more before troll idiot thing here.

Chinese rocket system is copied technology from time of Soviet Union. Our Scud missiles are just upgraded recently by Russian.

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## ViXuyen

walle said:


> How exactly do you plan to do that? China can hit Vietnam with shock and awe, are you only going to retaliate with your 1960s SCUD?
> 
> Ask yourself how effective were the SCUDs Iraqi fired, Libyans fired?
> 
> A lot of Viet posters live in a delusional world where you seem to think the Vietnamnese versions are either super effective or unique, when in fact its neither. Ask yourself, how many SCUDs do Vietnam have, how many can be protected from bombardment (to hit chinese cities they gotta be pretty damn close to the chinese border, right?) and finally how destructive are your most powerful warheads and their survival from bombardment.
> 
> China has alot of WS series rockets, they can be launching that **** all day and night. And China rebuilds fast, much of what you see today is probably built in the last 10years. Vietnam on the other hand will be set back a few decades.



The U.S dropped 20,000 tons of explosives on Ha Noi and Hai Phong in about 10 days but that did not even come close to leveling us, how many of your WS- series rockets and ballistic missiles are you planning to launch "day and night"? 

If I were China, I would bet that Vietnam's Scuds have been upgraded by the latest technologies from Russia in term of precision guidance and survival. 

You want to ask how many Scud we have ? I don't know but I can tell you one thing: If you are going to blow up our cities with your rockets and missiles, even if our Scud missiles won't provide much retaliation, we can always send hordes of our personnels over to China to blow up your cities and this time even Beijing and Shanghai will be blown up not just any cities within 1000km of Viet Nam. Viet Nam and China are right next to each other so please take note.

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## NiceGuy

EastSea said:


> China today is far more backward in technology than US air-force of 1979s, US was loser in Christmas 1972 when they attacked on Hanoi with B-52 Bombardiers and with carpet bombing in North Vietnam in Vietnam war. You have to read more before troll idiot thing here.
> 
> Chinese rocket system is copied technology from time of Soviet Union. Our Scud missiles are just upgraded recently by Russian.


Right, China missile tech is just a poor and cheap copy from Russia , only low IQ Chinese feel happy with it .Unlike China, We can possess the origin ones from Russia, just bcz we think we don't need to use it to fight against weak China that cant even take back TW, so we don't possess more powerful Russia missile, that's all

Surely no need to use Big stick to spank weak China 

Back to the topic: VN make new Sniper gun for the army .








Guns use the box loader 5 12.7 x108mm size.Guns overall length of 1.35 meters, 1 meter long barrel, weight 12.5 kg.
http://infonet.vn/Quan-su/Kham-pha-sung-ban-tia-hang-nang-cua-Viet-Nam/71034.info

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## Reashot Xigwin

* The First Molniya Made by Vietnam will be Joined to the Navy*
01 April 2013





_Project 1241.8 Molniya, the missile boat has length 56.1m, displacement 550 ton (photo : giaoduc)_


(&#272;VO) - After a startup time and hard work, the first high-speed missile boats Molniya made by Vietnam is going to be joined in the arsenal.

Recently in LIMA 2013 defense exhibition held in Malaysia, Director General Vympel Shipyard , Mr. Oleg Belkov revealed that the first of six high-speed missile boats Molniya (Lightning) under the Project 1241.8 is being built in Vietnam under the Russian license, and will be delivered to customers by the end of 2013.

"Right now, the second one is in the workshop and the third is preparing to play."

Thus, the missile ship is strong as the uncle, "he read," first played by Vietnam may have been launched and run sea trials. In the end of the year, the ship will be delivered to the Navy in Vietnam, contributing to strengthening the fight for the whole fleet.

Vympel Shipbuilding Plant has helped Vietnam in close range missile ships Moniya under Project 1241.8. Vympel and Vietnam provide parts and synchronization details such as radar, weapons, electronic systems for assembly 6 Vietnamese high-speed missile boats Moniya in chain transfer agreement shipbuilding technology under license from Russia.

In the shipbuilding process in Vietnam, with the participation of technical supervision from the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau in Saint-Petersburg and Vympel Shipyard.

Vietnam plans to close all 10 cruise missiles of this type, of which 6 units are in a contract made under license in Vietnam, the first four ships Molniya be played in Russia and fully handed over to the Vietnam Navy.

Vympel plant started supplying parts and components for the six ships of the Vietnam since 2010 in the framework of the contract and this work will continue until 2016.

According to schedule, late December 2012, combination of science and manufacturing gas tubine Zoria-Ukrainian Mashproekt just completed unit provides gas turbine engine next to Vietnam for installation on Molniya missile ships are packed in the factory.

This is the result of cooperation between ZORYA-Mashproekt (Ukraine) and Vympel Shipbuilding Plant (Russia) on the provision of motor ships, in Khuong suffering agreement Intergovernmental Russia-Ukraine.

According to the plan, until the end of 2013, ZORYA-Mashproekt will ensure complete unit offers four gas turbine engines for Vietnam to ensure the progress of shipbuilding missiles Molniya.

(BaoDatViet)

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## Viet

*Molniya (Lightning) class missile boat*







The missile boat of Project 1241.8 has been developed on the same basic platform as the Project 1242.1 boat. It differs from the predecessor by the missile armament only: it carries *16 Kh-35 *[SSN-X-25 Switchblade] missiles of the Uran-E system instead of 4 missiles of the Moskit-E (SS-N-22 Sunburn) system. 

The Uran-E missile characteristics are similar to those of American Harpoons, but the missile boats of Project 1241.8 carry twice more missiles on board. 

Molniya Class - Project 1242.1 / 1241.8

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## Viet

*Police, military schools see expanding applications*


TUOI TRE
UPDATED : 04/02/2013 10:28 GMT + 7





_Two fathers (L, 1st and 2nd) are seen completing their children's applications to military schools at a district command in Ho Chi Minh City.
_

*Applicants* to police and military colleges have surged this year, with the number of *female *candidates more than doubling, as graduates are ensured a job upon graduation amid Vietnam's attempts to lure young talents into its armed forces.
&#8220;My son is busy with schoolwork so I am here to complete the formalities for him,&#8221; Le Hai Nam, 55, told Tuoi Tre last week at a district military command in Ho Chi Minh City.

Nam was there to make some modifications to the applications to a tank and armored vehicle school and a communication officer junior college for his child, a 12th-grader at a high school in the city&#8217;s District 12.

&#8220;I wanted him to apply for IT or environmental science but he preferred army schools,&#8221; the father revealed. Kieu Hung, another parent, is the opposite of Nam; it was him who had encouraged his son to join an army school. &#8220;He had intended to go to an oil college,&#8221; Hung said.

*Job security *is the reason for these people&#8217;s choices, according to Major Nguyen Manh Cuong, a vice chief of admissions at the Ministry of Public Security.

&#8220;*Unemployment *is a social issue right now but both parents and students feel assured when they look at police and military schools,&#8221; Cuong said. &#8220;Students will be given a job, depending on the demand of our units, when they finish their studies.&#8221;

Senior Lieutenant Colonel Tran Dinh Choi, of the military command in the central province of Binh Dinh, added that another reason for this trend may be the incentives enrollees will be given during their time at police and military schools.

It could also be the *Ministry of Defense&#8217;s* policy to attract young people to armed forces schools in an attempt to build a stronger and more advanced army, he said.

Candidates seem eager to grasp this opportunity, Major Cuong said, adding that many provinces and cities have witnessed an expansion in the number of applicants to police colleges. 

Binh Dinh police said that their schools have received nearly 1,000 applications so far this year, compared to a mere 300-400 applicants last year.

*Police *in the Central Highlands province of Dak Lak also reported an upsurge in applicant numbers, with 3,400 applications having been submitted by now compared to 2,000 in the entire year of 2012.

Submissions to police schools in the central city of Da Nang have risen 30 percent to 660 in the year to date, according to Dang Cong Toi, vice personnel chief at Da Nang City&#8217;s Police Department. More applications are being sent in, Toi said.

Over *1,000 female students* out of the total 3,000 have submitted applications to police schools in Hanoi this year while that number was merely 400 last year, according to Nguyen Quang Duc, with the personnel office of the Hanoi Police Department.
Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense said that they had issued an extra 10,000 application forms in response to an increase in the number of applicants to military schools.

Around 600 applications have been sent to the military command in the central province of Binh Dinh up to now, said Senior Lieutenant Colonel Tran Dinh Choi, a chief officer. 

This number is 1.5 times higher than that of 2012 and almost double the applicants in the previous two years, Choi added.

Candidates also show a strong interest in* army schools *in the Mekong Delta, where a year-on-year increase has also been recorded.

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## NiceGuy

walle said:


> O really? Which one have your acquired? Will Russia, a member of the SCO really sell strategic weapons to Vietnam to counter China, its securities partner? You are perhaps day dreaming again, last time i check Vietnam potentially operated the Hwasong-6, made by no other than china's ***** North Korea.
> 
> Ballistic missiles are complicated weapon systems, having the missile itself is almost useless without the support network. Perhaps Vietnam will fire blindly at China?


Aks ur Govt for more information,they know Russia allows VN to store our weapons inside Russia's arsenal after purchasing,and we will bring back all when full scale war happen. China is just a Russia's servant, so Russia dont care if those strategic weapons will be used to destroy you or not.

You think we will fight against u without any kind of powerful weapon ?poor u, learn and know more before barking loudly here.

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## Soryu

walle said:


> China has no interest to occupy vietnam it can devaste all your cities within the comforts of the chinese border, US in the 70s didn't have beidou guided cruise/ballistics missile that can strategically destroy every single arterial road, industrial base, airfields and ports with a click of a button.
> 
> I love how Vietnam like to bring the US into the equation when its irrelevant. The lack of progress in Vietnam today can be traced back to the destruction dealt 40 years ago, China can use 1/10 of the ordnance to halt Vietnam development for another few decades.


You chinese guys were same as alway, talk big and bullshjt, but those things not happened in real life.

This is topic: * Vietnam Military News & Discussion* , not your mighty bullshjt PRC military power, so stop.


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## visom

hurt said:


> Great pic, this is really C-602
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese IQ









Hey its the guy that answers questions with irrelevant boat pictures! Two can play at that game!

Here is a picture of a lego boat, the largest lego boat resembling a real combat ship ever made. This will prove every point you've made wrong.

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## Sasquatch

Get back on topic, all troll comments have been deleted and this is a warning.


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## ViXuyen

500-ton FAC armed with 16 Kh-35 anti-ship missiles; built locally at Ba Son shipyard in HCMC

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## Viet

*Russia, Vietnam foster security cooperation*

Updated : 4/2/2013 7:29:57 PM




_Emblem of the Federal Security Service_

(VOV) - A high-ranking delegation from the *Russian Federal Security Service* (RFSS) led by its Director General Bortnikov A.V is paying a working visit to Vietnam from April 2-4.

At talks with his Russian counterpart on April 2, Minister of Public Security General Tran Dai Quang spoke highly of the delegation&#8217;s visit which, he said, will help further strengthen friendship and cooperation between the two countries as well as between his ministry and the RFSS.

Both sides agreed on measures to improve effective and practical cooperation to defend each *country&#8217;s national security *as a contribution to maintaining peace and security in the region and the world.

The two top security leaders also signed a *cooperation plan *between the Vietnam Ministry of Public Security and the RFSS.

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## Soryu

little funny.........

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## Viet

make love not war

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## Viet

*Defence Minister greets Russian security leader*

Updated : 4/4/2013 9:37:08 AM





(VOV) - Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh on April 3 received Director of the Russian Federal Security Service (RFSS) *General Bortnikov A.V*, who is leading a high-raking delegation on a visit to Vietnam from April 2-4.

Thanh hailed the Russian officials working visit, expressing his belief that it will strengthen the friendship and cooperation between the two nations as well as between his ministry and the RFSS.

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## ViXuyen

Launched of the first two Molniya FAC built at Ba Son shipyard, HCMC.

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## peaceful

5Star said:


> Launched of the first two Molniya FAC built at Ba Son shipyard, HCMC.



a couple questions:

1. which country built the engine?
2. which country built the sonar?
3. which country built the radar?
4. what kind of ship gun is fitted on them? which country built it? 
5. what missiles are fitted on them? which country built it? 
6. how many choppers it can carry?



Viet said:


> *Molniya (Lightning) class missile boat*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The missile boat of Project 1241.8 has been developed on the same basic platform as the Project 1242.1 boat. It differs from the predecessor by the missile armament only: it carries *16 Kh-35 *[SSN-X-25 Switchblade] missiles of the Uran-E system instead of 4 missiles of the Moskit-E (SS-N-22 Sunburn) system.
> 
> The Uran-E missile characteristics are similar to those of American Harpoons, but the missile boats of Project 1241.8 carry twice more missiles on board.
> 
> Molniya Class - Project 1242.1 / 1241.8



wowwowo!! really impressive! 

550 tons!


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## Viet

peaceful said:


> a couple questions:
> 
> 1. which country built the engine?
> 2. which country built the sonar?
> 3. which country built the radar?
> 4. what kind of ship gun is fitted on them? which country built it?
> 5. what missiles are fitted on them? which country built it?
> 6. how many choppers it can carry?



LOL you can post your queries to VN Defence Ministry in Hanoi. As far as I know all components are produced and assembled in VN. Missile boat is too small to carry helicopter.





_VN Defence Ministry in Hanoi_

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## Viet

peaceful said:


> wowwowo!! really impressive!
> 550 tons!


You can laugh if you want. The ten new highspeed warships can carry 160 antiship missiles, that´s more than enough to sink all surface warships of your called South Sea Fleet. 

Russia to Help Vietnam Produce Anti-Ship Missiles, RIA Says - Bloomberg





_Kh-35 antiship missile_

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## Viet

*Ukraine, Vietnam strengthen security cooperation*

Updated : 4/6/2013 8:42:00 AM




_Minister of Public Security General Tran Dai Quang and Vice Director of the Security Service of Ukraine, Lieutenant-General S. Sergey Ivanovich (Image: anninhthudo.vn) _

(VOV) - *Vietnam *hopes to boost cooperation with Ukraine in enhancing public security officials&#8217; capacity of combating international criminals, especially those using high technology, said Minister of Public Security General Tran Dai Quang.

Quang made the statement when receiving a delegation from* Ukrainian external security service* led by their Vice Director Lieutenant-General S. Sergey Ivanovich, in Hanoi on April 5. 

He welcomed the delegation&#8217;s visit as as an important event, marking a new step of development in the two *security agencies*&#8217; sound cooperative relations.

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## ViXuyen

I think I understand now why we never wanted the air launched version of the Yakhont

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## Viet

*PM Dung inspects air force training*

Updated : 4/7/2013 5:34:07 PM

(VOV) - Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has asked the Air Defence-Air Force to heighten vigilance and preparedness as it continues to build a regular air force to fulfill all assigned tasks.

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## Viet

*Vietnamese Molniya-class Corvette*













Molniya - type of high-speed missile boats, are designed for combat duty in the shallow coastal waters, high speed, firepower are the advantages of this type of rocket ships.

550 tons, size 56.1 x 10,2 x 2,65 m
Gas turbine engines, speeds of 38 knots / h
16 subsonic antiship missile Kh-35 Uran-E (NATO reporting name SS-N-25 Switchblade range of 130 km)
One gunboat AK-176 76mm, two rapid fire guns Ak-630, air defense missile systems IGLA-1M
Garpun-Bal radar system, which allows a vessel to observe up to fifteen targets simultaneously, and target up to six for weapons delivery.

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## Viet

*Vietnam's Su-30MK2V fighters drill air raids exercise*

FRIDAY, MARCH 29, 2013 Asitimes

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## Viet

*Vietnamese air defense plans to equip Pantsir-S1*
_
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 3, 2013 Asitimes_







The famous Vietnamese defense information gate *Tien Phong *Newspaper report that some Russian military sources revealed on Vietnam sending trainees to Russia for training transferred and mastering some modern weapons of Russia including the combinations of Pantsir-S1, Tor, Buk ...

These are the new generation of Russian air defense weapons, useful for air defense of tactics and points. The mobility air defense combinations, which equip short-range missile, flaks, sophisticated electronic warfare devices, can destroy targets such as low-flying aircraft, unmanned aircraft, cruise missiles ...

*Pantsir-S1* (NATO reporting name SA-22 Greyhound) is a combined short to medium range surface-to-air missile and anti-aircraft artillery weapon system produced by KBP of Tula, Russia. The system is a further development of SA-19/SA-N-11 and represents the latest air defence technology by using phased-array radars for both target acquisition and tracking.






Pantsir-S1 is opening fire

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## visom

This is about vietnamese military, not Chinese. Get out.

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## ViXuyen

I'm sure we will buy the Buk missile system to replace the SA-2 but I'm not sure whether we will choose the Pantsir or Tor. My prediction is by 2018-2020, we will have modernized our air defence network that encompasses high-medium-low altitude/range missile systems such as:

S-300
S-400
Buk M2
Pechora 2TM
Pantsir (I like this)
Igla-S
SPAAG

Add the Su27, Su30, and the Su35 to this air defence network and it will be a no-fly zone for the dogs

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## Viet

*Vietnam Gepard stealth frigates*






















Main firepower is the combination of anti-ship cruise missiles Uran-E (8 units) placed in the middle of the hull. Uran-E missile can reach a maximum range of 130 km. Per Vnesea, Vietnam has locally produced a kind of missile similar with Uran-E called *X-35 with range of 300km*.

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## Viet

*Loading P-5 Shaddock antiship missiles, range 550 km, Mach 1.4*

Vietnam can self produce the missiles.
http://asitimes.blogspot.com/

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## Viet

*The 4K51 Rubezh land-based antiship missile system of Vietnam*


SUNDAY, MARCH 17, 2013 Asitimes





The 4K51 Rubezh anti-ship missile systems *(NATO reporting name SSC-3, range 80km, speed Mach 0.9)* have been use in the Vietnam People's Navy, supported in the 1980s from the Soviet Union to equip the Missile- Artillery Coastal Defense Regiment, a new unit of arms established after the Vietnam War, the 4K51 has served in the Vietnam People's Army for nearly 30 years and has become one of the "missile shield" under managing of the 679th Coastal missile Regiment to protect its territorial sovereignty over the East Vietnam Sea (the South China Sea). 

The combinations of 4K51 Rubezh, 4K44B REDUT-M and K-300P Bastion-P is the three most modern *coastal defense shield* of Vietnam.

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## Soryu

The Vietnam Navy soldier training with many new weapons and system.









































Source: _vnexpress.net_

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## Viet

*Australia to help Vietnam prepare UN mission*

From: AAP March 19, 2013 3:39PM The Australian





AUSTRALIA and Vietnam will strengthen defence links as Vietnamese troops prepare for their first *United Nations peacekeeping mission*.

Defence Minister Stephen Smith met Vietnam's Minister of National Defense General Phung Quang Thanh for the inaugural annual *Australia-Vietnam Defence Ministers' meeting i*n Canberra on Tuesday.

Mr Smith said 2013 marked the 40th anniversary of diplomatic relations between Australia and Vietnam and a close and prosperous relationship had developed.

"This includes a strong defence relationship, which has grown in recent years based on practical cooperation, people-to-people links and dialogue on strategic and defence issues," he said in a statement.

Australia will also provide training to Vietnam as it prepares to deploy troops on United Nations peacekeeping missions for the first time, Mr Smith said.

*Eighty places for military and English training* will be offered in Australia including a further post-graduate scholarship position for the Vietnam People's Army in 2014.

It takes the total post-graduate scholarship positions offered to Vietnam to 11 in 2013 and 12 in 2014.

"Minister Thanh and I also undertook to look for further opportunities to enhance military engagement, including in areas such as maritime security cooperation," Mr Smith said.

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## Viet

*Air Defence*

Minute break of Battalion 166, 276 Missile Regiment

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## Viet

on the TV






MIG-21






Do you know her?

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## Viet

*Hanoi&#8217;s young men join the army*

Last update 26/02/2013 (GMT+7)

VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; On the morning of February 25, hundreds of young men in Hanoi said goodbye to their friends and relatives to join the army.

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## ViXuyen

US mulls P-3 MPA sale to Vietnam

LAAD Defence and Security 2013: US mulls P-3 MPA sale to Vietnam

By Gareth Jennings

4/12/2013

The Socialist Republic of Vietnam is expected to request from the US government the sale of Lockheed Martin P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft (MPA), a senior company official told IHS Jane's on 10 April.

Speaking at the LAAD Defence and Security 2013 exhibition in Rio de Janeiro, Clay Fearnow, director maritime patrol programmes, said the Vietnamese Navy was keen to buy up to six surplus P-3s to help patrol the country's nearly 3,500 km coastline and 1,396,299 km2 Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

"The Vietnamese Navy has expressed a lot of interest [in the P-3], and there is [US government] support to move forward," said Fearnow.

According to Fearnow, any P-3s sold to Vietnam by the US would in the first instance be non-weaponised, being fitted exclusively with an MPA mission kit such as forward looking infrared (FLIR) sensors and other systems. However, he noted that as relations between the two countries continue to improve there could be scope for weapon systems to be provided at a later date.

Fearnow said Lockheed Martin would recommend they opt for the latter P-3C aircraft, as they are the most advanced and have the fewer airframe hours on them.

LAAD Defence and Security 2013: US mulls P-3 MPA sale to Vietnam

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## Viet

A good summary of Russia-Vietnam military relationship



*Moscow regains lost ground with Hanoi*


After Algeria and India, Vietnam is next in line to become a strategic partner of Moscow in the area of military-technical cooperation.

March 12, 2013 Dmitry Litovkin, specially for RIR Russia-India Report






Russia seriously intends to strengthen its positions in South East Asia. That is the conclusion of experts following a recent visit by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu to Vietnam. After Algeria and India, Vietnam is next in line to become a strategic partner of Moscow in the area of military-technical cooperation. In the very near future, *Hanoi *will be supplied with modern air and coastal defense systems, fighters, and non-nuclear submarines. Russian military academies are also set to begin training Vietnamese military personnel. 

Shoigu's visit to Hanoi can be considered historic. He has effectively reopened the country, which Russia was forced to leave in the early 1990s after the collapse of the Soviet Union. At that time, Vietnam was one of its main allies and partners in the region, and Moscow and Hanoi enjoyed close military-technical cooperation. Since Soviet times, the Vietnamese city of *Cam Ranh* had been a logistics point for the Russian Navy, and a 25-year lease agreement on a gratuitous basis was concluded between in 1979. But in 1989, Vietnam expressed a desire to receive payment for the base. As a result, in 2001 President Vladimir Putin decided not to renew the contract and to decommission the base ahead of schedule. One of the reasons was the lack of military funding; another was Russia's specific interests in the region.

A *turning point in the history* of bilateral cooperation was President Nguyen Minh Triet's visit to Moscow in October 2008. During the visit, an intergovernmental memorandum on cooperation in the sphere of military-technical cooperation was signed through 2020. As a result, in the last three years alone Russia and Vietnam have signed contractual obligations for the supply of military equipment worth more than $5.5 billion.

Vietnam is one of Russia's key partners in the area of military-technical cooperation. Russia supplies the country with submarines, missile boats, modern fighters, and aviation weapons. It is also a crucial partner in many other related fields. In particular, Russia is building a nuclear power plant in Vietnam and producing oil in the country's offshore coastal zone, says Ruslan Pukhov, head of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST).

The special place occupied by Vietnam in the field of military-technical cooperation is evidenced by Moscow's delivery of 20 *Su-30MK2 fighters* for $1.5 billion. The planes are among the most advanced in the world. Russia's latest combat training aircraft, the Yak-130, is now gaining ground in the Vietnamese market. This next-generation machine is of interest not only as a pilot trainer, but also as a light attack aircraft.

Also on the table is the MiG-29 SMT, and Vietnam has shown interest in purchasing a batch of Il-476 military transport aircraft with new PS-90A engines. Production of the latter began this year at the Aviastar plant in Ulyanovsk. Within the framework of cooperation in the field of military aviation, JSC Sukhoi is in talks to set up a regional center in Vietnam to service Su-series aircraft. 

In 2011, Vietnam became the largest recipient of Russian naval equipment. According to CAST, the country procured a *Gepard-3.9 frigate* (Project 11661E) for $175 million and four Svetlyak patrol boats (Project 10412) at a total cost of $120 million. The vessels are armed with the Klab strike complex and* Kh-35 Uran missiles*. As part of these supplies, Moscow and Hanoi plan to develop a joint missile analogous to Russia's Kh-35 Uran. It will be developed on the same principle as the BrahMos project, a Russian-Indian joint venture.

The *Uran *is one of the most advanced Russian anti-ship cruise missiles. It can be launched from a surface or underwater vehicle (the Klab complex), or as part of the Bal-E coastal anti-ship complex. The Kh-35 is unique in that it is immune to enemy radar interference. Besides active mode (when the target seeker is enabled in a split second), the missile can also fly in passive mode, i.e. in full radio silence, whereby instead of scanning the surrounding space, it detects pulses emitted by the target. The aircraft flies at a height of 2-3 meters above sea level &#8212; below the deck of a ship, making it *undetectable *to radar. Incidentally, this capability is highly rated by the United States. It is rumoured that the homing head of the Kh-35 will be fitted on the U.S. ASM Harpoon.

No less promising in the area of mutual cooperation with Hanoi is the supply of modern air defense systems. In the summer of 2003, it concluded a contract for the supply of two batteries of* S-300PMU-1* anti-aircraft missile systems worth approximately $230 million. The complexes partially replaced the Soviet-era S-75 air defense system, which had been in service in Vietnam since 1965. There is also the issue of modernizing the S-125 Pechora, currently in operation and of which there exist around 40. Moscow is offering to upgrade them with the* Pechora-2M*, a modernized variant.

Despite the advancing years of the S-125 system, the Pechora-2M is an entirely new development. 

For example, 90 percent of the electronics have been replaced. It all meets the latest requirements, ranging from the computer processors to the color LCD displays providing an overview of the aerial situation. The new complex allows the launch facilities to be sited 10 km from the control room and antenna station (instead of the previous 70 m), which significantly increases the survivability of the complex under enemy fire.

The *modernized SAMs* have twice as many launchers (eight instead of four), double the target detection range in conditions of radio interference, and five times the mean time between failures. Moreover, the nomenclature of spare parts has been reduced tenfold: from 3000 to 300. Crucially, the Pechora-2M also features thermal imaging for night-time operation in passive mode, which makes the complex practically invisible to enemy intelligence. But the main know-how lies in the radar defense system: a device the size of a shipping carton diverts self-guided enemy missiles away from the Pechora-2M antenna station.

During his visit to Hanoi, Sergei Shoigu said that Moscow was fulfilling a contract to supply *non-nuclear submarines* to Vietnam, as well as to train crews for them. 

The contract for the supply of six Varshavyanka submarines under Project 636 (two have already been delivered) was signed in late 2009. The deal is worth $1.8 billion, and all the submarines will be equipped with the *Klab missile* complex. In addition, Moscow will build a base for the vessels in Vietnam.

&#8220;Cooperation between Moscow and Hanoi is quite multifaceted,&#8221; says Professor Vadim Kozyulin of the Academy of Military Sciences. &#8220;Furthermore, most of the Vietnamese government and military studied in the Soviet Union and speak Russian, which facilitates good relations.&#8221;

It is this factor, according to Kozyulin, which assures Moscow's dominant position in the Vietnamese market. And this is despite the improving relations between Hanoi and Washington, which in recent years has been seeking entry into the Vietnamese market. In particular, the U.S. has been probing the idea of leasing the Soviet naval base at Cam Ranh.

&#8220;Of course, it won't be like in Soviet times,&#8221; Kozyulin says. &#8220;Nevertheless, let us hope that Moscow and Hanoi can build a constructive* strategic relationship*. 

An indication of that is Vietnam's promise to allow the Russian Navy to receive technical assistance at the Cam Ranh naval base.&#8221;


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## Viet

*Slovakia, Vietnam enhance military cooperation*

Updated : 4/12/2013 5:05:11 PM




capital city Bratislava

(VOV) - Both countries have agreed to expand the scope of military and defense cooperation in the near future.

The agreement was reached at talks between the *Slovak Republic&#8217;s Ministry of Foreign* and European Affairs State Secretary Peter Burian and Vietnam&#8217;s Deputy Defence Minister Sen. Lieut. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh.

The two officials reviewed cooperation between the two militaries, governments, and peoples in past years and expressed their wish to advance it further.

Burian said his country is prepared to provide Vietnam with weapon repair and bombs, landmines and unexploded ordnance clearance equipment whenever the latter requires it.

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## ViXuyen

SA-3 of Viet Nam is already been modernized by Belarus. The version of Belarus is called Pechora 2TM. You can see it here

S-125-2TM PECHORA-2TM Medium Range Air Defence System

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## Viet

*Vietnam Military Pictures*

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## Viet



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## Viet

http://giaoduc.net.vn/Uploaded/quyhoi/2011_12_29/giao_duc_quoc_phong_quan_su_viet_nam_18.jpg[/IMG


[IMG]http://giaoduc.net.vn/Uploaded/quyhoi/2012_01_01/canh_sat_viet_nam_quan_doi_viet_nam_giaoduc.net.vn_30.jpg











]

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## Viet



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## NiceGuy

> Japan, Vietnam to hold maritime security talks in May
> KYODO
> APR 15, 2013 ARTICLE HISTORY PRINT SHARE
> Japan and Vietnam have agreed to hold maritime security talks in May in Hanoi to accelerate maritime cooperation amid China&#8217;s increasing assertiveness in the East China Sea and South China Sea, government sources said Saturday.
> *
> The two nations are expected to exchange views on Japan&#8217;s possible provision of patrol vessels to Vietnam during the first-ever bilateral talks on maritime security, the sources said.
> 
> Vietnam has expressed hope that Japan will provide patrol boats as part of Hanoi&#8217;s efforts to improve its maritime security capabilities.*
> 
> The two sides are expected to confirm their stand against China&#8217;s maritime assertiveness and the need for abiding by international law to ensure maritime security, one of the sources said.
> 
> Senior officials from Japan&#8217;s foreign and defense ministries will take part in the talks, the sources said.
> 
> Japan sees Vietnam &#8220;as a strategic partner that shares common interests,&#8221; a senior Japanese Foreign Ministry official said.
> 
> In the talks, Japan is expected to provide a briefing on China&#8217;s increasing maritime activities around the Japan-controlled Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, including occasional entries of official Chinese ships into Japan&#8217;s territorial waters around the islands, which are claimed by China, the sources said.
> 
> Vietnam is expected to touch on the dispute with China over sovereignty of the Paracel and Spratly islands in the South China Sea.Japan, Vietnam to hold maritime security talks in May - The Japan Times







Good,first stage is providing patrol boat,next one could be Japan's warship

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## Viet

*Vietnam and Japan boost defence cooperation*

Q&#272;ND - Tuesday, April 16, 2013, 19:16 (GMT+7) Print





_welcome in Japan_






_Shigeru Iwasaki, Japan's Self Defense Forces' chief of Joint Staff, salutes as he poses behind a model of F-15 fighter aircraft at his desk after an interview with Reuters at the Defense Ministry in Tokyo March 27, 2013._


PANO - A high-ranking *Vietnamese military delegation*, led by Senior Lieutenant-General Do Ba Ty, member of the Party Central Committee and Chief of the General Staff and a delegation from the Japan Self-Defence Forces (JSDF), led by General Shigeru Iwasaki, conducted a talk at the Headquarters of the Japanese Ministry of Defence on April 15th. 

The talk was part of the official visit of the Vietnamese delegation to Japan at the invitation of *Japanese Chief of Joint Staff* of the JSDF, General Shigeru Iwasaki, from April 14th-19th.

The two sides exchanged information on issues of mutual concern in the world and in the region.

Regarding the bilateral ties, Sen. Lt. Gen. Do Ba Ty stressed that over the past time, the *Vietnam-Japan Strategic Partnership* had been developed fruitfully and efficiently. Vietnam treasured the relations and hoped it would continue to be enhanced, especially in defence cooperation.




_Japanese Minister of Defence Itsuroni Onodera with Senior Lieutenant-General Do_


The same day, in a reception given to the Vietnamese delegation,* Japanese Minister of Defence* Itsuroni Onodera expressed that Japanese people and army had a deep sentiment for Vietnamese people and army. That was demonstrated in the first official visit abroad of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe after he had taken office to Vietnam.

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## Viet

*Vietnam, Russia further boost military cooperation*

FRIDAY, APRIL 12, 2013 Xinhua






HANOI, April 11 (Xinhua) -- Military cooperation between Vietnam and Russia continues growing efficiently in accordance with the two countries' comprehensive strategic partnership.

The view was shared by Vietnamese Deputy Defense Minister Truong Quang Khanh and Deputy Director of the *Russia Federal Agency on Military Cooperation* V.K. Dzirkaln during talks at the Vietnam-Russia Intergovernmental Committee for Military Technique Cooperation held here on Thursday.

Khanh, chairman of the Vietnamese Sub-committee, and Dzirkaln, chairman of the Russian Sub-committee, agreed that friendship and cooperation between the two countries have been consolidated and developed.

They also exchanged views on regional and international security issues of common concern, and discussed prioritized fields of cooperation, including bilateral cooperation on military techniques.

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## Viet

*Vietnam marine police to step up East Sea protection for fishermen*

TUESDAY, APRIL 2, 2013 Asitimes





The Vietnam Marine Police Department has said it would beef up protection for Vietnamese fishermen fishing in the nation&#8217;s territorial waters with *frequent patrols of the East Sea* including areas off remote islands that it has clear sovereignty over.

It would even accompany Vietnamese fishing boats if needed, the department said, adding these measures were being taken in response to a Chinese ship illegally opening fire on a Vietnamese fishing boat recently. 

&#8220;*We will stay 24/24 in remote islands* and coordinate with other forces to support, or even accompany the fishermen to protect them,&#8221; a VnExpress report quoted department director, Major General Nguyen Dam, as saying.

Dam said the action of the Chinese ship firing flares at Vietnamese fishing boats on March 20 was a serious violation of international laws as well as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

Vietnamese marine police will ask *Chinese forces* to abide by international laws, he said.

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## Viet

source: M
M&#7929; - Vi&#7879;t t&#7893; ch&#7913;c các ho&#7841;t &#273;&#7897;ng trao &#273;&#7893;i h&#7843;i quân &#7903; &#272;à N&#7861;ng

translated by google


*U.S. - Vietnam organize naval exchange activities in Danang*
Tuesday, 04/16/2013 07:13 http://giaoduc.net.vn/





_US warship USS Chung-Hoon_

(GDVN) - *U.S. Marines* will start exchange activities with the Vietnam People's Navy at the official welcome ceremony took place at the port of Da Nang on April 21, 2013.

Rear Admiral, Commander Tom Carney Forces Logistics *Western Pacific region*, Colonel Paul Schilse Unit of Maritime Staff, Commander of the USS Chung-Hoon and USNS salvor, and U.S. Deputy Consul General Robert Ogburn States delegation will represent the United States at the official welcome ceremony.

Cooperation program lasts for five days between the two navies will focus on *non-combat* events and exchange of expertise in the areas of control and maintenance.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Military Pictures*

Military School

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## Viet

"Dry Food" - KP02 with traditional ingredients such as beef, pork, chicken, vegetables, flour ...; energy of 270-300kcal/bottle, 6 month life period

*Enjoy your meal! *

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## Viet

*More Pictures from the visit of the Defence minister in Australia *(20/03/2013)

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## Viet

*VPAF conducts night flight training*


SATURDAY, APRIL 20, 2013 Asitimes





_The plane (Su-27) taking off_






_Practicing a night flight for the first time in Phu Cat airport_


Vietnam People's Air Force (VPAF) Regiment 940, Division 372, the Air Defence and* Air Force *Service organized night flight training on April 17th in Phu Cat airport.

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## NiceGuy

POLITICS
Vietnam, US conduct naval exchanges in Da Nang
TUOITRENEWS
UPDATED : 04/22/2013 11:26 GMT + 7

PrevNext
The US Navy has begun non-combat naval exchange activities with the Vietnam Peoples Navy after two US naval vessels landed at Tien Sa Port in the central city of Da Nang on April 21.
Representing the US naval delegation at the welcoming ceremony at the port on Sunday were Commander of the Logistics Group Western Pacific Rear Admiral Tom Carney, the delegation head, Commander of the Maritime Staff Element Captain Paul Schlise, the Captains of USS Chung-Hoon and USNS Salvor, and U.S. Consulate General Deputy Principal Officer Robert Ogburn.






USS Chung-Hoon


U.S. units participating in the naval exchange activities include the guided missile destroyer USS Chung-Hoon and the rescue and salvage ship USNS Salvor, which are manned by sailors fromthe Logistics Group Western Pacific and the Maritime Staff Element, as well as Marines and medical trainers from the III Marine Expeditionary Force, a mobile diving and salvage detachment, and the 7th Fleet Band Orient Express.

The destroyer, which has a loading capacity of 9,496 tons and can travel at 30 nautical miles per hour, also carries two LAMPS MK III MH-60 B/R helicopters with Penguin/Hellfire missiles and MK 46/MK 50 torpedoes.

The five-day exchange will comprise of non-combatant events and skills exchanges in many areas, including navigation and maintenance.

Speaking at the reception, Commander Rear Admiral Tom Carney said he expected the collaboration with the Vietnam Peoples Navy will help implement many exchange activities between the two sides.

In addition, ship tours, band concerts, community relations events, and U.S.-Vietnamese Navy sporting events are also arranged.

During their stay, Rear Admiral Tom Carney, Maritime Staff Element Captain Paul Schlise, and the Captains of USS Chung-Hoon and USNS Salvor will pay a courtesy call to leaders of the municipal Peoples Committee and Naval Zone 3.

This is the third consecutive time that naval exchanges have been conducted between Vietnam and the US, Carney said, adding that the two US vessels will leave Da Nang on April 25

Vietnam, US conduct naval exchanges in Da Nang | Tu

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## USAHawk785

A question to all the Vietnamese posters here: what south east asian army poses the greatest threat to the Vietnamese Army? (excluding China, of course).

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## NiceGuy

USAHawk785 said:


> A question to all the Vietnamese posters here: what south east asian army poses the greatest threat to the Vietnamese Army? (excluding China, of course).


No one,not even China,bro.China's expansionism is just a good excuse to expand our power

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## visom

USAHawk785 said:


> A question to all the Vietnamese posters here: what south east asian army poses the greatest threat to the Vietnamese Army? (excluding China, of course).



Vietnam doesn't have any other real enemies as of now.

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## Soryu

USAHawk785 said:


> A question to all the Vietnamese posters here: what south east asian army poses the greatest threat to the Vietnamese Army? (excluding China, of course).



It's hard to answer this question! Until now, we just worry about invader like China, others country in SEA still not enough power like 1/2 China. 
If we talking about size or modern equipments, so Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia are good, they maybe become great threat if they joint with our enemy.


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## USAHawk785

Soryu, Visom, and Niceguy, 

Thanks for your individual input. Appreciate the collective response.

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## Viet

*More pics from Vietnam, US naval exchanges in Da Nang*

The guided missile destroyer USS Chung-Hoon landed at Tien Sa Port in Da Nang On April 21, 2013

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## Viet

*US pledges to help Vietnam overcome AO aftermath*

Updated : 4/20/2013 6:29:32 PM






(VOV) -*US agencies* are willing to cooperate and support Vietnam to deal with and overcome the serious consequences of Agent Orange (AO)/Dioxin.

They have admitted that it is a complicated, long-term issue that requires the joint efforts of both Vietnam and the US.

Head of the *US-Vietnam Dialogue Group* on AO/Dioxin, Ha Huy Thong, made this statement on April 19 during his ongoing visit to Washington, D.C.

He said the US senators are still committed to maintaining the budget for the AO/Dioxin detoxification programme in Vietnam, despite the fact that the country has suffered massive public spending cuts of more than US$80 billion in 2013.

Last year, the US provided Vietnam with *US$44 million* to clean up and detoxify some AO/Dioxin infected areas in the central city of Danang.

Vietnam has 3.5-4 million people suffering from the effects of the toxic chemical and the Aspen Institute, an international non-profit organisation headquartered in the US capital, estimates that the country needs about US$410 million to deal with AO/Dioxin issues in the 2012-2017 period.

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## Viet

*Pilot training*

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## Viet

*Military School*

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## Viet

*Submarine on sea trail*

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

USAHawk785 said:


> A question to all the Vietnamese posters here: what south east asian army poses the greatest threat to the Vietnamese Army? (excluding China, of course).



No one (excluding chinese expansionism, of course)!

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## Viet

USAHawk785 said:


> A question to all the Vietnamese posters here: what *south east asian army* poses the greatest threat to the Vietnamese Army? (excluding China, of course).


Singapore has the most formidable army.


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## Viet

*Video: live fire exercise against enemy landings in Ly Son Island*

THURSDAY, APRIL 25, 2013 Asitimes

On April 21-22, Ly Son Island's Armed Forces (in Quang Ngai province) conducted live fire exercises to improve combat power, protect the island in the situation of unexpected enemy attack.

Military Committee of Ly Son Island is the first unit of the armed forces in Quang Ngai drills using elastic warheads and explosives in the exercise against the enemy's waterway-landing in 2013.

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## Viet

*NZ naval ship visits HCM City*

Updated : 4/24/2013 4:53:00 PM










(VOV) -The* Royal New Zealand Navy* ship HMNZS Te Mana, carrying a crew of 25 officers and 145 sailors, docked at Ho Chi Minh City on April 24 to begin its six-day visit. 

During the visit, ship officers and crewmen will leave a floral tribute at Ho Chi Minh Monument and meet with the leaders of the municipal People&#8217;s Committee, Military Zone No. 7&#8217;s staff, and the Zone 2 Naval High Command.

They will exchange experiences with Vietnamese naval officers and participate in friendly games of sport with the *Naval Technical School*.

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## visom

Viet said:


> Singapore has the most formidable army.


Isn't there an agreement that ASEAN countries don't fight another? Vietnam is on good terms with all ASEAN countries, they're not our enemies lol.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Singapore has the most formidable army.



Singapore has most modern equipments in SEA and has good training but very less experience in true combat. 
They also have not enough tatical - operational space, so It's not show too much threat to us.


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> *Singapore *has most modern equipments in SEA and has good training but very less experience in true combat.
> They also have not enough tatical - operational space, so It's not show too much threat to us.


You are right. Singapore army is well financed and good trained, but poses no threat to VN. Actually we are luckly to have no enemy in SE Asia.

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## Viet

*Helicopter*

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## Viet

*Fighter Jets*

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## Viet

*Tanks*

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## Viet

*Exercise-firing missiles*

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## NiceGuy

Vietnam Navy buys Russian emergencies simulator
Posted on MAY 2, 2013 Written by VOVNEWS LEAVE A COMMENT

(VOV) &#8211; The Vietnamese Navy has bought Gefest/Hephaestus complex simulating emergency situations on board from St. Petersburg-based Aqua-Servis company.

Vietnam News Agency quoted the Voice of Russia saying the training complex will be handed over to the Vietnamese side before 2014.

Gefest/Hephaestus is able to simulate emergency situations on board: in simulated compartments sailors can practice dealing with water, fire and excessive smoke.

The radio also reported that the Russian Ministry of Defence plans to purchase this training complex.

In 2011, the simulator was supplied to Russia&#8217;s Coast Guard Border Service.
Vietnam Navy buys Russian emergencies simulator

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## NiceGuy

Vietnam successfully tests first unmanned aircraft
TUOITRENEWS
UPDATED : 05/04/2013 10:22 GMT + 7
Technicians preparing to launch an unmanned aircraft for testing in Hanoi on May 3, 2013









After five years of research and designing, Vietnamese scientists have created and successfully tested three prototypes of unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), the first of its kind in Vietnam.
The tests were conducted at the testing range of the Space Technology Institute in Hoa Lac, Hanoi on Thursday.
Three prototypes are among the five UAVs that have been created by scientists at the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology, said Dr Pham Ngoc Lang, who chairs the project entitled Studies and manufacture of unmanned aerial vehicles for scientific research purposes.
Scientists began their research in 2008 to create these prototypes and their study became one of the State-level research topics in 2011, Lang said.
These five UAVs include AV.UAV.MS1, AV.UAV.S1, AV.UAV.S2, AV.UAV.S3 and AV.UAV.S4. All of them are manufactured locally, with domestically produced materials.

With their weights ranging from 4 kg to 170 kg and their wingspans from 1.2 to 5 meters, these aircraft can take off on a runway, the top of a car, or a mobile launching platform, or by hand manipulation.

They are equipped with an automated flight system  Autopilot on Board, an advanced camera system, and devices and equipment for scientific research. 

Of these aircraft, the smallest (4kg) can fly at 70kph within a radius of 2 km and at a maximum altitude of 200 m.

Meanwhile, the biggest (170 kg) can fly at 180 kph, within a radius of 100 km and at an elevation of 3,000 meters. It can continuously fly for 6 hours in both daytime and nighttime.

The flight ranges of AV.UAV.S3 and AV.UAV.S4 can be extended using guiding satellites or ground control stations.

The two remaining prototypes will be tested in the near future. Currently we are ready to manufacture unmanned aircraft en masse, Dr Lang said.
Vietnam successfully tests first unmanned aircraft | Tu

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## Viet

Thursday, May 2, 2013

*Video: Su-30MK2 patrol the Spratlys
*

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## ViXuyen

Thermal vision goggle production line; now our troops can fight at night.

DÂY CHUY

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## NiceGuy

Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh met with his Chinese counterpart Chang Wanquan in Bruneis capital city of Bandar Seri Begawan on May 7, on the sidelines of the seventh ASEAN Defence Ministers Meeting (ADMM-7). 

*At the meeting, the Chinese minister affirmed that China always treasures ties with Vietnam and will continue working with Vietnam to lift the two countries relations, including defence cooperation, to a new level. 
*
He also highly valued Vietnam s successful organisation of the first expanded ADMM and the establishment of the ADMM-Plus mechanism. 

Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh said that Vietnam always attaches importance to developing the good neighbourliness and long-standing relations with China , adding that the strengthening of cooperation, solidarity and mutual trust and understanding between the two countries is an important factor to maintain peace and stability in the region. 

He stressed that Vietnam and China have existing issues at sea left over from history, and suggested the two sides strictly obey agreements and common perception made by their senior leaders. 

The two countries should work together to solve disputes at sea though peaceful negotiations and based on international law, the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC), as well as to boost the establishment of a Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC) between ASE AN and China, he added. 

In terms of defence cooperation, he noted that the two sides need to continue speeding up defence dialogue strategy, boost contacts, exchanges and consultations at all levels to intensify mutual trust and understanding, and early set up hot lines between the two sides at Defence Ministry, Military Zone and Border Guard Force levels.-VNA

Vietnamese Defence Minister meets Chinese counterpart -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)

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## Soryu

*Two VPN Gepard 3.9*

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## cnleio

Anyone know the story of T-72 tanks in Vietnam, few years ago rumor said T-72 imported from Poland ... in Vietnam internet did anyone saw Vietnam T-72 pics or is there something could prove Vietnam army own T-72 tank (i knew VPA owned T-54, T-62, T-3485, Su-100, BTR60, M113,BMP-1,BTP40 etc and updated T-54M3).












Just curious about the rumors of Vietnam T-72, is it true? Who really saw these tanks in Vietnam or still a rumor? Thanks


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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Anyone know the story of T-72 tanks in Vietnam, few years ago rumor said T-72 imported from Poland ... in Vietnam internet did anyone saw Vietnam T-72 pics or is there something could prove Vietnam army own T-72 tank .
> 
> Just curious about the rumors of Vietnam T-72, is it true? Who really saw these tanks in Vietnam or still a rumor? Thanks


tank is not useful in.modern combat ,and we only have problem in disputed water in SCS(east sea) now,so cancelled the plan to buy T-72 tank and use money to build more warship.

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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> tank is not useful in.modern combat ,and we only have problem in disputed water in SCS(east sea) now,so cancelled the plan to buy T-72 tank and use money to build more warship.


Ths a lot.
Tank is unuseful in the mountain areas, that's why China didn't deploy heavy tank groups (ZTZ99G & ZTZ99A2 MBT) in the south of China, ZTZ96 as the Southern main tanks, at the same time China were developing a new designed light tank for the mountain combat.
Anyway cancelled the T-72 and put limited investments into the Airforce and Navy is right for Vietnam defence.

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## Viet

_Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh met with his Chinese counterpart Chang Wanquan in Brunei&#8217;s capital city of Bandar Seri Begawan on May 7, on the sidelines of the seventh ASEAN Defence Ministers&#8217; Meeting (ADMM-7). _

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## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> tank is not useful in.modern combat ,and we only have problem in disputed water in SCS(east sea) now,so cancelled the plan to buy T-72 tank and use money to build more warship.



How about light tanks. They cost less than heavier tanks and they are perfect for recon duties. 
Anyway, since the dispute in the South China Sea (or East Sea or West Philippine Sea) continues, Vietnam spends money on new warships.



NiceGuy said:


> tank is not useful in.modern combat ,and we only have problem in disputed water in SCS(east sea) now,so cancelled the plan to buy T-72 tank and use money to build more warship.



How about light tanks. They cost less than heavier tanks and they are perfect for recon duties. 
Anyway, since the dispute in the South China Sea (or East Sea or West Philippine Sea) continues, Vietnam spends money on new warships.


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## visom

Fsjal said:


> How about light tanks. They cost less than heavier tanks and they are perfect for recon duties.
> Anyway, since the dispute in the South China Sea (or East Sea or West Philippine Sea) continues, Vietnam spends money on new warships.
> 
> How about light tanks. They cost less than heavier tanks and they are perfect for recon duties.
> Anyway, since the dispute in the South China Sea (or East Sea or West Philippine Sea) continues, Vietnam spends money on new warships.



I believe light and heavy tanks still have their use. Of course the era of tank dominance is slowly coming to an end but tanks are still a useful weapon in certain situations for the few years to come. I know the US military is slowly purchasing less tanks.

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## Soryu

Vietnam PM Nguyen Tan Dung visit first 636M Varshavyanka submarine class Hanoi and VPN officers were training in Russian.

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## NiceGuy

US helps improve law enforcement capacity at sea
(VOV) -The Vietnamese Marine Police and the US Department of State began a joint multilateral training course in Haiphong on May 13 to improve law enforcement capacity and increase maritime cooperation in the Gulf of Thailand.





Intl maritime exhibition to be held in Vietnam
Intl seminar discusses maritime and island issues
Trainees include officers from Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia and Cambodia, as well as representatives from the US Coast Guard, the US Department of Justice, and the Freeland Foundation.


During the two-week course, trainees will share experiences and expertise in detecting and combating crime at sea. They will also learn how to inspect suspicious vessels and quickly uncover illegal trading activities, especially illegal fishing and trafficking of drugs, animals and plants.

The US and Vietnam are cooperating to increase the capacity of Vietnams law enforcement and improve rescue work in order to maintain peace and stability at sea to promote sustainable economic development in the region.

The training course is one of the law enforcement initiatives adopted in 2010 for countries in the Gulf of Thailand area, aimed at building cooperation mechanisms for maritime law enforcement forces in the region.
US helps improve law enforcement capacity at sea | VOV Online Newspaper

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## Viet

Vietnam´s Public Security Minister visits Japan

Updated : 5/14/2013 2:05:05 PM










(VOV) - Japans Deputy Minister and Finance Minister Taro Aso on May 13 received a Vietnamese delegation from the Ministry of Public Security led by Minister Tran Dai Quang.

At the reception, *Japanese Deputy PM Aso *expressed his delight at the constant development of the strategic partnership between the two nations and hoped the bilateral relations will continue to grow and flourish in the time to come.

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## Viet

Vietnam, Japan boost air defence ties

Updated : 5/14/2013 9:46:05 AM




_Flag of Japan Air Self-Defense Force_

The air defence forces of Vietnam and Japan should broaden cooperation in the areas of flight safety, aviation medicine, and disaster relief in the time to come. 

The statement was made by visiting *Chief of Staff of Japan Air Self Defence Force* General Haruhiko Kataoka during talks with Deputy Defence Minister cum Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army, Sen. Lieut. Gen. Do Ba Ty in Hanoi on May 13.

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## NiceGuy

Vietnam will buy UAV of Belarus

Myasnikovich, The Prime Minister Nguy&#7877;n Tan Dung an official visit Belarus from day 15 17/5. After welcome ceremony official , Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Prime Minister M. Myasnikovich has conducted Assembly damThu Minister Nguyen Tan Dung congratulate achievements which Belarus achieve be in the economic development social, keep firmly political stability, deployment foreign policy multilateral chemical and emphasized Vietnam always attaches importance consolidate and development relations with these water traditional friends, in which have Belarus is a in the pros tienThu Minister M. Myasnikovich evaluate high those enormous achievements which Vietnam achieved in time through, contributing enhance the position of Vietnam in the world. 

Prime Minister M. Myasnikovich affirmed, development relations friendship and cooperation on the basis mutually beneficial with Vietnam is a in those important orientation in foreign policy of BelarusHai sides expressed satisfied before the development good beautiful of relations two water same time , agreed to continue to maintain contact, exchange of visits at all levels to enhance political trust, create conditions to promote bilateral relations with a focus on economic cooperation, trade and investment tuHai Prime Minister gathered to discuss measures to increase trade and investment between the two countries in the near future, highlighted significant breakthrough of the early conclusion of the negotiations and signing of Free Trade Agreement between Vietnam and the Customs Union Russia Belarus Kazakhstan. 

Enhanced cooperation in the field of industrial, is a joint venture manufacturer of industrial equipment, providing credit, support of khauHai sides agreed to enhance the performance of the Commission Intergovernmental Economic Cooperation trade and science and technology, determination to implement the tasks set out in the program of economic cooperation period 2013 2015Hai sides appreciated the results achieved over time in the areas of science and technology, education and training, military technology, culture, sports, du lichPhia Belarus confirmed ready to help Vietnam train technology professionals, increase scholarships for students from Vietnam to study in Belarus.

The two sides agreed to hold Days of Culture of Vietnam in Belarus and The Day of Culture Belarus in Vietnam five studies Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Prime M. Myasnikovich expressed satisfaction at the Vietnam and Belarus are closely, mutual support at the United Nations, Movement Links, fora and international organizations other than the interests of the two peoples, Peace, stable, cooperation and development trienHai party supporters to maintain peace, stable, safety and maritime security in the South China Sea, settle disputes by peaceful means on the basis of international law teSau talks, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Prime Minister, M. Myasnikovich signed a joint communique on the results of the official visit to Belarus by the Prime Minister of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam Nguyen Tan Dung, witnessed the signing of the Agreement on cooperation in the field of information and communication, Memorandum of Understanding on cooperation in the field of electrical energy, Planning and implementing a cooperation agreement in the field of standards, measurement and quality period 2013 2015 Vietnam will buy Belarusian equipment drone ( UAV ), this was Belarusian Prime Minister Mikhail Myasnikovich announced in Minsk on Friday 16/5 in talks with Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung. 

He Myasnikovich noted potential joint projects in the field of geographic information technology and medicine I am very excited about the implementation of a joint project registration computer design, electronic systems and micro- nano, Belarus Prime Minister said We are ready to progress towards transferring patents and training, means working for the goal of future, \u0026 ndash, As he said the Prime Minister Myasnikovich, Belarus and Vietnam have similar approaches in the field of military technical cooperation and technology use dual time Belarus has a number of UAV products are as concerned countries ( UAV ) Grif 1 selling midrange , Grif 1 can carry useful loads up to 30 kg ( higher than 30 % calculation ) and perform various tasks in -depth campaign strategy and close After installing the appropriate equipment, Grif 1 can be used to take pictures, video, as well as optical reconnaissance positioning, infrared, radio and radar electronics, or measurements of atmospheric parameters also, New generation UAV reconnaissance Sterkh BM, New UAV receive attention from Latin American countries have introduced Sterkh BM takeoff and landing capability is fully automated on the runway. Sterkh BM remote control system based on data from advanced satellite positioning and inertial navigation Sterkh BM UAV weighs 65 kg, wingspan of 3.8 m, equipped gasoline engine piston, maximum speed of 200 km / h, maximum ceiling of 3 km, operating range of up to 240 km initially, Sterkh BM was developed for use in the military and intelligence missions on the battlefield surveillance, electronic warfare, communication and Hubs. 

The Future*, it can be used to attack targets from the air, destroy the long-range radar systems and missiles of enemy air defense *( according to the Messenger / Ruvrru ) ( Summing Chinhphuvn, Q&#272;ND )Vietnam will buy UAV of Belarus | DBV | VietNam News

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## NiceGuy

Bulletproof nano coating made &#8203;&#8203;from rice husk
PGSTS chemical Nguyen Thi Hoe, Kova Paint Group Chairman, has published the results of her latest research on nano 4 paints are made from painted hull bulletproof, fire, antibacterial and anti-rust





Bulletproof nano coating made &#8203;&#8203;from rice husk
This unique study has attracted the attention of more than 250 delegates from scientists, university lecturers, business leaders and foreign, particular groups, companies from the U.S., Germany, Switzerland, Singapore, Malaysia , worth a hundred times larger than rice, be used for many fields such as painting, waterproof, cosmetics, pharmaceutical, computer, Nguyen Thi Hoe introduced PGSTS bulletproof vest made &#8203;&#8203;of cloth with nano coating made &#8203;&#8203;from rice husk Mai Vong Picture paints used for bulletproof vests to increase several times and the ability to help reduce weight for clothing. 

Vietnam bulletproof nano coating using rice husk has been tested in Cambodia with the support of the Cambodian military. results, pistol bullet did not penetrate the fabric when painting 6 bulletproof, at a distance of 2 m, while the normal armor from 20 to 40 weight fabric is very heavy. PGSTS Nguyen Thi Hoe takes this patent registered in the U.S. and hope to get the license of the U.S., to transfer technology for manufacturing companies in the world body armor. Also, in its research program, Nguyen Thi Hoe PGSTS also focus on materials with surface fire mainly concrete, wood, iron and steel. 

Nano fireproofing products from rice husk protects the concrete surface, steel, wood in buildings under the heat up to 1000 degrees C for 2 6 tiengSon fire antibacterial attention of the medical. Integrated coating nano silver technology and organic compounds created special ability to kill up to 99 % on the paint surface. Bactericidal ability of certified products in Singapore and the products have been sold in the country is nayCuoi antifouling paints, the introduction of PGSTS Nguyen Thi Hoe, Special features of this painting can be painted for marine works, 10 years and no rust
http://news.dbv.vn/bulletproof-nano-coating-made-​​from-rice-husk-40877.html
There r some mistake in translating of the paper



> *Austrian* bulletproof nano coating using rice husk has been tested in Cambodia with the support of the military *nayKet results*


,l'vs just corrected them,so it have a littler bit different with the link.

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## ViXuyen

The Prime Minister's visit of the first Kilo-class submarine.

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## ViXuyen



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## Minjitta

NiceGuy said:


> Bulletproof nano coating made &#8203;&#8203;from rice husk
> PGSTS chemical Nguyen Thi Hoe, Kova Paint Group Chairman, has published the results of her latest research on nano 4 paints are made from painted hull bulletproof, fire, antibacterial and anti-rust
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bulletproof nano coating made &#8203;&#8203;from rice husk
> This unique study has attracted the attention of more than 250 delegates from scientists, university lecturers, business leaders and foreign, particular groups, companies from the U.S., Germany, Switzerland, Singapore, Malaysia , worth a hundred times larger than rice, be used for many fields such as painting, waterproof, cosmetics, pharmaceutical, computer, Nguyen Thi Hoe introduced PGSTS bulletproof vest made &#8203;&#8203;of cloth with nano coating made &#8203;&#8203;from rice husk Mai Vong Picture paints used for bulletproof vests to increase several times and the ability to help reduce weight for clothing.
> 
> Vietnam bulletproof nano coating using rice husk has been tested in Cambodia with the support of the Cambodian military. results, pistol bullet did not penetrate the fabric when painting 6 bulletproof, at a distance of 2 m, while the normal armor from 20 to 40 weight fabric is very heavy. PGSTS Nguyen Thi Hoe takes this patent registered in the U.S. and hope to get the license of the U.S., to transfer technology for manufacturing companies in the world body armor. Also, in its research program, Nguyen Thi Hoe PGSTS also focus on materials with surface fire mainly concrete, wood, iron and steel.
> 
> Nano fireproofing products from rice husk protects the concrete surface, steel, wood in buildings under the heat up to 1000 degrees C for 2 6 tiengSon fire antibacterial attention of the medical. Integrated coating nano silver technology and organic compounds created special ability to kill up to 99 % on the paint surface. Bactericidal ability of certified products in Singapore and the products have been sold in the country is nayCuoi antifouling paints, the introduction of PGSTS Nguyen Thi Hoe, Special features of this painting can be painted for marine works, 10 years and no rust
> Bulletproof nano coating made ??from rice husk | DBV | VietNam News
> There r some mistake in translating of the paper
> 
> ,l'vs just corrected them,so it have a littler bit different with the link.


paint this nano rice husk on the new kilos and all navy ships, that would be fun
congrads Vietnam on her new invention



5Star said:


>



how many of this Matine police ship in service?

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## VietHome

Minjitta said:


> how many of this Matine police ship in service?


43 ships are currently fielded 

12x 120 tons
4x 148 tons
12x 200 tons
3x 300 tons 
4x 400 tons
2x 1200 tons
4x 1400 tons
2x 2500 tons that you see on the picture

Many more are being built under Netherlands' license. Japan has offered to provide more vessels.
The Maritime Police also has 3 airplanes for early warning and transportation.

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## Viet

Russia to train crew of 2nd submarine bought by Vietnam

Thursday, May 23, 2013 Asitimes





This July Russia will start training the future crew of the second Kilo-class submarine Vietnam has agreed to buy from the country, Russian news agency Interfax reported Monday.

The submarine named *Ho Chi Minh City* set off for sea trials April 28, four months after being launched.

Interfax reported that the submarine embarked Monday for a two-week sea trial.

It will arrive at the seaport town of Baltiysk early next month and return to Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard in St. Petersburg by mid-June.

In July, the training will get underway for Vietnamese crew, according to Interfax. It is expected that the submarine will be delivered to Vietnam in late October.

The submarine named *Hanoi* has undergone 23 successful dives. The Voice of Russia reported that the third submarine, named Hai Phong, will be launched this August.

The Voice of Russia reported that the third submarine, named *Hai Phong*, will be launched this August.

Kilo-class submarines, nicknamed "Black Holes" for their ability to avoid detection, are considered to be among the quietest diesel-electric submarines in the world.

They are designed for general reconnaissance and patrol missions, as well as anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare.

They have a displacement capacity of 2,300 tons, a maximum depth of 350 meters, and are equipped with six 533-mm torpedo tubes with a firing range of 9,600 km.

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## Viet

Vietnam researches to self-produce Laser weapons

Sunday, May 19, 2013 Asitimes











Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology (VAST) has coordinated with the (Vietnam) Academy of Military Technology (VAMT) to finish the project "Production and delivery an infrared laser equipment modernization system."

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## visom

Why does everything have to be named after Ho Chi Minh lol.

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## Rechoice

visom said:


> Why does everything have to be named after Ho Chi Minh lol.



I guess the names shall be made following the names of big cities in Vietnam, they should be like Hue, Danang, Cantho Haiphong, Nhatrang... and so on, not on the name of former president Hochi Minh for personal cult.

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## Soryu

*Belarus will Supply Vietnam Unmanned Aircraft Systems*







Grif-1 UAV from Belarus (photo : Vitaly Kuzmin)

TSAMTO. Belarus plans to deliver to Vietnam unmanned aircraft systems. The Prime Minister of Belarus Mikhail Myasnikovich at a meeting with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, BelTA informs.

According to Mikhail Myasnikovich, "We very much hope associate with scientific and technical cooperation. Here and unmanned aircraft systems, the contracts for which we sign as part of your visit, and future joint projects in the field of bio-and information technologies, as well as in medicine "- BELTA.
Type procured Vietnam UAVs are not reported.

Earlier, in January this year, the agency BelTA reported on the organization of the production of UAVs by the National Academy of Sciences. The company engaged in the production of Belarusian drone was created Physical-Technical Institute of the NAS of Belarus.

Unmanned aerial vehicles planned to create custom melokoseriynymi parties. As of January of this year, according to the learned, had produced about 10 ready copies. In the future, drones planned to supply the markets of other countries.Among the potential customers has been called Vietnam.

_It should be noted that Vietnam has already implemented in the work on the UAV in three areas: personal development, as well as programs with Russia and Sweden_.

(ArmsTrade)


*3rd Vietnam Kilo submarines Named HQ 184 Hai Phong*






3rd Submarine placed number HQ 184 Haiphong being completed at Admiralty Shipyards. (photo : Baomoi)

(DVO) - The newspaper reported that the Russian shipbuilding, _3rd 636MV Kilo submarines launched preparations for Vietnam will be placed, Hai Phong 184 named as the famous harbor city of Vietnam.There at home Admiralty Shipyards are rushing to complete the final stages of the submarine._

This page also predicted the 4th submarine will be named 185 Da Nang, 5th submarine named 186 Khanh Hoa and the 6th named 187 Vung Tau in the name of the city along the famous sea in Vietnam sea.

Expected Kilo 184 submarines Hai Phong will be launched in 8/2013. Besides, two submarines had launched the previous Hanoi 182, and Ho Chi Minh 183 is conducting operations at sea testing and static testing at the factory.

Hanoi submarine has made more than 100 dives in various test in different depths, the test will meet and surpass the requirements set forth. Expected Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh submarine will be handed over to Vietnam in late 2013.

Besides, it is also rushing to complete training center Kilo submarines for Vietnam, the center is expected to go into operation in late 2013. With the help of Russia, Vietnam is one step firmly in shaping electric submarine fleet - diesel is top rated area.

Training Centre of Vietnam Kilo submarines are evaluated leading modern area, the center will be an important tool to leapfrog Vietnam to all the high-tech equipment in the Kilo submarine.

(Dat Viet)

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## Viet

_Vietnamese Deputy Defense Minister Senior Lieutenant General Truong Quang Khanh (C) accompanies Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung (L, 2nd) to visit Hanoi Kilo-class submarine at the port of Kaliningrad, Russia May 13, 2013.
_


Vietnam Navy Submarine Division established (city of H&#7843;i Phòng)

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## Viet

According to a report: Israel & Slovenia will deliver 300 old tanks to Vietnam. At present, Vietnamese army has 1,200 tanks of T-54/55/59s.

Báo TQ: Israel, Slovenia giúp Vi

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> According to a report: Israel & Slovenia will deliver 300 old tanks to Vietnam. At present, Vietnamese army has 1,200 tanks of T-54/55/59s.
> 
> Báo TQ: Israel, Slovenia giúp Vi



Like I know, project was cancelled, because we have to push naval & air power, also intelligence, reconnaissance & communication capable to higher level.

The armour infantry & Tank still hold a important role in VPA, but I think our well train army's ATGM and helicopter are enough to prevent enemy army's heavy amour infantry

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## Viet

Soryu 

Below is a story of last year teeling Israel helped to upgrade VN´s tanks
Vietnamese armed forces modernize its fleet of main battle tanks T-55 to standard T 54/55M3 2503124*-*Army Recognition






Vietnamese main battle tanks T-54/T-55M3






T-54/T-55M3 will be equipped with a new Israeli explosive reactive






A 60mm mortar is mounted on the top of the turret.






new Israeli 105 mm M68/L7 main canon

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## Minjitta

VietHome said:


> 43 ships are currently fielded
> 
> 12x 120 tons
> 4x 148 tons
> 12x 200 tons
> 3x 300 tons
> 4x 400 tons
> 2x 1200 tons
> 4x 1400 tons
> 2x 2500 tons that you see on the picture
> 
> Many more are being built under Netherlands' license. Japan has offered to provide more vessels.
> The Maritime Police also has 3 airplanes for early warning and transportation.


VN needed 10x more Maritime Police force to cover all her 200km water territory.

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## VietHome

A very nice clip that shows Vietnam's current fire power.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Soryu
> 
> Below is a story of last year teeling Israel helped to upgrade VN´s tanks
> Vietnamese armed forces modernize its fleet of main battle tanks T-55 to standard T 54/55M3 2503124*-*Army Recognition


Until now, just one unit was upgrade for test and inspect. I think because economy situation, our budget is very limit, when Kilo beats go to services in navy, they will burn so much moneys, so project must pause for now, at least until 2016. 


Minjitta said:


> VN needed 10x more Maritime Police force to cover all her 200km water territory.


You mean our 200 nm EEZ !?


VietHome said:


> A very nice clip that shows Vietnam's current fire power.


Nice clip ...


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## Soryu

I use gg translate from Indonesian, so ... 

*Vietnam Interested in CN 295 aircraft*





CN-295 aircraft (photo: Burmarrad)

Jakarta, (Between Sumatra) - Vietnamese Defence Minister, General Phung Quang Thanh, said that Vietnam requires CN 295 similar aircraft according to their needs after studying the intricacies of aircraft types that are diprodduksi PT Indonesian Aerospace (DI).

Hanoi Embassy's press release received by Reuters on Monday, said Vietnamese defense minister also said it plans to send a delegation of Air Force Vietnam to Indonesia to study Indonesian aviation industry and ask anything more detailed about the CN 295 aircraft when Wamenhan RI Sjafrie visits honor to the Minister of Defense General Thanh.

Defense Minister Gen. Thanh on that occasion also said he appreciated the good relations between the two countries, especially between the two military.

RI Wamenhan accompanied by PT DI president director of Indonesia (DI) Budi Santoso and Defense Ministry officials and state-owned enterprises that undertake three-day visit to Vietnam in order Road Show to six ASEAN countries to introduce CN 295 aircraft.

Sjafrie and his entourage landed by plane type it in Ho Chi Minh City from Bandar Seri Begawan on May 25 and went on to Hanoi on May 26.

PT DI Air Show held CN 295 aircraft and "Joy Flight" for about 45 minutes on Monday (27/5). Participate in a program that is representative Joy Flight Vietnam Airforce Commander and his staff, the ambassador to Vietnam Mayerfas, Spanish Ambassador Fernando Curcio Ruigomez, Defence Attaché Colonel Susilo Adi Purwantoro and directors of PT DI.

At a separate meeting, the Deputy Commander of the Vietnamese Air Force Major General Nguyen Kim Khach said that Vietnam has been exploring to have a similar aircraft CN 295. He said he had tried the plane in Spain.

With CN 295 aircraft assembled in Indonesia, will be better for Vietnam given after sales service can be done by Indonesia, which is closer to Vietnam, he said.

Wamenhan RI delegation welcomed the planned visit Vietnam to Indonesia to see the aircraft up close produdksi PT DI and other Indonesian defense industry.

PT DI Will Work on Vietnam Aircraft Orders ???

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## Soryu

*Vietnam UAV Flying at Night, Facing the South China Sea*





Stemming night flight (photo : Institute of Space Technology Vietnam)

Night 25/5, two unmanned aircraft by the Institute of Space Technology (Academy of Science and Technology of Vietnam) manufacturing continued successful implementation of the program with a four-night flight flight towards the South China Sea 50km.

According to Dr. Pham Ngoc Lang - Chairman of topics made unmanned aircraft for scientific research, the aircraft was flying in fully automatic mode, in accordance with the original itinerary flight commander for approval.

During night flights, the aircraft is equipped with infrared cameras, camera mounted infrared lens for night service dedicated research programs.





AV.UAV.S2 night flying toward the East Sea (photo : Institute of Space Technology Vietnam)

This morning (26/5), six unmanned aircraft continue to perform 10 successful flight research collaboration between the Institute functions under Academy of Science and Technology of Vietnam.

Dr. Lang said the results of the test flight program serves "Highlands 3" in Da Lat and flight test results for marine scientific research (both day and night-flying) helped the group in Nha Trang Research Institute of Space Technology continues to improve the aircraft, preparing to take on mass production, marine air service operations in particular and economic development - society in general.





Aircraft not signify a person's driving Vietnam Fatherland flying in the sky (photo : Institute of Space Technology Vietnam)

Earlier, on 25/5, six unmanned aircraft took off at the beach Van Ninh district, Khanh Hoa, 100km from the city of Nha Trang north start flying program for scientific research on the marine waters Central.

This is a scientific research program coordinated between Nha Trang Institute of Oceanography, Institute of Research and Technology Applications Nha Trang Institute of Space Technology.

Dr. Pham Ngoc Lang - Chairman of topics made unmanned aircraft for scientific research - said the plane had been "assigned task" very specific.





Aerial view of the scene at the easternmost point coordinates 12038'52'' N,'' E 109027'44

Accordingly, AV.UAV.S1 aircraft take flight itinerary recording, imaging spectrometry ecosystems, coastal fisheries, vegetation, coral areas, distributed component substrate Van Phong Bay , sea surface temperature, measured sediment deposition in estuarine / marine, mangrove forests, coastal erosion areas, standardized photographs from satellites ... for research programs.

AV.UAV.S2 aircraft take flight at sea cruise on 100km with recording task, imaging spectrometry aquatic species on the continental shelf, the seabed coral, temperature, salinity seawater , ocean currents and detect potential areas for fish farmers and fishermen to provide data for the Nha Trang Oceanography Institute and the Institute of Research and Technology Applications Nha Trang.

AV.UAV.S2 aircraft conducting aerial photography of the easternmost point (land) of the country located at 12038'52'' N,'' E 109027'44, administrative boundaries Dam, Van Thanh Van Ninh, Khanh Hoa on itinerary at sea shelf. The aircraft also carried flight AV.UAV.S2 recording, photography, spectrometry Trau island status, Black Buffalo and some other islands in the itinerary.

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## scobydoo

Soryu said:


> I use gg translate from Indonesian, so ...
> 
> *Vietnam Interested in CN 295 aircraft*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CN-295 aircraft (photo: Burmarrad)
> 
> PT DI Will Work on Vietnam Aircraft Orders ???


Nice....

You can ask the Israeli to put latest ELTA radar on it.





edit:
I just got this pic so i post it here

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## VietHome

France is pitching to sell its newest vessel to Vietnam. The ship named L'adroit is equipped with only heavy guns, and no anti-ship missile nor anti-submarine capability. Thus, it is similar to Vietnam-built costal defense ships. However, these features can be added through negotiation. The main advantage of this ship is the advanced automated electronic, stealth technology, UAV and helicopter integration. Being the most technically advanced ship in the French fleet, Vietnam has a chance to learn from the best.

With the price equals to 2-3 Molniya missile ship being built in Vietnam, is this a good deal?

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=msYBq2MG_mg[/video]

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## EastSea

VietHome said:


> France is pitching to sell its newest vessel to Vietnam. The ship named L'adroit is equipped with only heavy guns, and no anti-ship missile nor anti-submarine capability. Thus, it is similar to Vietnam-built costal defense ships. However, these features can be added through negotiation. The main advantage of this ship is the advanced automated electronic, stealth technology, UAV and helicopter integration. Being the most technically advanced ship in the French fleet, Vietnam has a chance to learn from the best.
> 
> With the price equals to 2-3 Molniya missile ship being built in Vietnam, is this a good deal?
> 
> [video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=msYBq2MG_mg[/video]



we can upgrade with Russia weapons if it shall be necessary, I think so.

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## Soryu

VietHome said:


> France is pitching to sell its newest vessel to Vietnam. The ship named L'adroit is equipped with only heavy guns, and no anti-ship missile nor anti-submarine capability. Thus, it is similar to Vietnam-built costal defense ships. However, these features can be added through negotiation. The main advantage of this ship is the advanced automated electronic, stealth technology, UAV and helicopter integration. Being the most technically advanced ship in the French fleet, Vietnam has a chance to learn from the best.
> 
> With the price equals to 2-3 Molniya missile ship being built in Vietnam, is this a good deal?
> 
> [video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=msYBq2MG_mg[/video]





EastSea said:


> we can upgrade with Russia weapons if it shall be necessary, I think so.


Great news, I was miss it until now. The reporter was say: "present this ship to Vietnam Navy", so I consider this is a deal on negotiation stage.

This is very good if the ship has good price. We have three point in here:

+ *We have very good relationships with French and many Euro countries*. Our deputation from MoD was visit many Euro's defense exhibition. We also bought EADS CASA-212-400, will buy UAV from Belarus, interest on CASA-295.

+ *We were developing and procure UAV technology for our own*. With modern and advanced automated electronic, stealth technology, UAV and helicopter integration on L'adroit, it'll fit with our requirement (long range, 1450t vessel with 8000 nm, small crew, best tech).

+ They will do this: _*Transfer of technology*  DCNS OPVs also have the advantage of being buildable in record times anywhere in the world_. Malaysia also procure this class but with heavier armed, so we could hope price of ship will reduce with these conditions.


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## Soryu

*'Goose' of Vietnam Navy Took off on the Water*






Seaplane DHC-6 Twin Otter Series 400 C-GVTU of the Vietnamese Navy (photo : Phunu Today)

After a period of testing and factory installed storage systems support / landing on water surface and Twin Otter seaplanes second Navy Vietnam continues to undergo the test phase important.

Seaplane DHC-6 Twin Otter Series 400 HQVN second system was installed pontoon construction support / landing on water.

According to the Canadian media, after the flight test phase of the test at the factory and go through the process of system integration support life take / landing on water. At the beginning of last May, seaplane DCH-6 Twin Otter Series 400 Second Vietnam Navy began testing process capability "amphibian" takeoff and landing runway on water and on land .

Earlier, the company Viking Air of Canada has held the ceremony carefully seaplane DHC-6 Series 400 of the first Navy Vietnam at Victoria International Airport. Both Twin Otter seaplane were first painted and numbered as required performance of Vietnam Navy. The first Twin Otter brought a number MSN 867 and MSN 872 second. All of the Hovercraft DHC-6 Twin Otter Series 400 Navy Vietnam are painted red flag with yellow star (national flag) in the tail fin steering and anchor forces combined effect characteristic of naval forces in the nose of the aircraft.

Seaplane DCH-6 Twin Otter Series 400 second Vietnam Navy began conducting flight trials from the plant earlier this month 1/2013 the last stepping stone to prepare for the next test phase, before upon delivery to the customer.

According to the foreign media, Vietnam purchased Twin Otter seaplane to serve the naval patrols Vietnam. The aircraft is equipped with radar and will support fleet 6 Kilo class submarines built by Russia that Vietnam has ordered in 12/2009.

Besides monitoring capability, reconnaissance Marine, Twin Otter seaplanes also undertake rescue missions, rescue, transport involved senior officials of the Party and the military in the ability to visit the island by "toxic incomparable "its take off and landing on the water easily.

With the progress of the current test, the reception of the seaplane as "wild goose" Navy will help Vietnam not only enhance patrolling and monitoring the waters of the exclusive economic fact that the South China Sea also opens a new page - giving birth to the Air Force's first naval Navy Vietnam.


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## BoXilai

Soryu said:


> *Belarus will Supply Vietnam Unmanned Aircraft Systems*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grif-1 UAV from Belarus (photo : Vitaly Kuzmin)
> 
> TSAMTO. Belarus plans to deliver to Vietnam unmanned aircraft systems. The Prime Minister of Belarus Mikhail Myasnikovich at a meeting with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, BelTA informs.
> 
> According to Mikhail Myasnikovich, "We very much hope associate with scientific and technical cooperation. Here and unmanned aircraft systems, the contracts for which we sign as part of your visit, and future joint projects in the field of bio-and information technologies, as well as in medicine "- BELTA.
> Type procured Vietnam UAVs are not reported.
> 
> Earlier, in January this year, the agency BelTA reported on the organization of the production of UAVs by the National Academy of Sciences. The company engaged in the production of Belarusian drone was created Physical-Technical Institute of the NAS of Belarus.
> 
> Unmanned aerial vehicles planned to create custom melokoseriynymi parties. As of January of this year, according to the learned, had produced about 10 ready copies. In the future, drones planned to supply the markets of other countries.Among the potential customers has been called Vietnam.
> 
> _It should be noted that Vietnam has already implemented in the work on the UAV in three areas: personal development, as well as programs with Russia and Sweden_.
> 
> (ArmsTrade)
> 
> 
> *3rd Vietnam Kilo submarines Named HQ 184 Hai Phong*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3rd Submarine placed number HQ 184 Haiphong being completed at Admiralty Shipyards. (photo : Baomoi)
> 
> (DVO) - The newspaper reported that the Russian shipbuilding, _3rd 636MV Kilo submarines launched preparations for Vietnam will be placed, Hai Phong 184 named as the famous harbor city of Vietnam.There at home Admiralty Shipyards are rushing to complete the final stages of the submarine._
> 
> This page also predicted the 4th submarine will be named 185 Da Nang, 5th submarine named 186 Khanh Hoa and the 6th named 187 Vung Tau in the name of the city along the famous sea in Vietnam sea.
> 
> Expected Kilo 184 submarines Hai Phong will be launched in 8/2013. Besides, two submarines had launched the previous Hanoi 182, and Ho Chi Minh 183 is conducting operations at sea testing and static testing at the factory.
> 
> Hanoi submarine has made more than 100 dives in various test in different depths, the test will meet and surpass the requirements set forth. Expected Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh submarine will be handed over to Vietnam in late 2013.
> 
> Besides, it is also rushing to complete training center Kilo submarines for Vietnam, the center is expected to go into operation in late 2013. With the help of Russia, Vietnam is one step firmly in shaping electric submarine fleet - diesel is top rated area.
> 
> Training Centre of Vietnam Kilo submarines are evaluated leading modern area, the center will be an important tool to leapfrog Vietnam to all the high-tech equipment in the Kilo submarine.
> 
> (Dat Viet)



I guess their names will be: Ha Noi, Hai Phong, Da Nang, Can Tho, Ho Chi Minh City. The 6th submarine can be names Cam Ranh.


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## VietHome

BoXilai said:


> I guess their names will be: Ha Noi, Hai Phong, Da Nang, Can Tho, Ho Chi Minh City. The 6th submarine can be names Cam Ranh.



Actually, they are Ha Noi, Ho Chi Minh City, Hai Phong, Da Nang, Khanh Hoa, and Vung Tau, according to the article

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## BoXilai

VietHome said:


> Actually, they are Ha Noi, Ho Chi Minh City, Hai Phong, Da Nang, Khanh Hoa, and Vung Tau, according to the article



I have read the title only.


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## Minjitta

the 7th, and 8th submarines with are not kilo will be name Hue, and Saigon


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## Viet

Vietnam reinforces defense ties

Updated : 6/2/2013 11:03:04 AM















(VOV) - Deputy Defence Minister, Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh has met with defence leaders from *Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, Brunei, Russia, the US and China* at the 12th Shangri La Dialogue in Singapore.

At the meetings on June 1, all sides reviewed bilateral military relations and exchanged views on regional security.








They also discussed measures to further strengthen defence ties and cooperative relations based on mutual respect in order to develop a common voice on major regional and global defence issues such as peace, conflicts, maritime security and anti-terrorism activities.

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## Viet

That news is totally weird!


Chinese, Vietnamese young officers cement ties

Updated : 6/3/2013 3:33:09 PM Voice Of Vietnam




_Young Vietnamese officers visited China in 2011. Photo: Tienphong_


A week-long exchange between young officers of the *Vietnamese *People&#8217;s Army and the *Chinese* People&#8217;s Liberation Army is taking place in China to boost the two countries&#8217; military relations.

At the event, starting from June 2, they shared experiences in encouraging the youth&#8217;s participation in disaster prevention, poverty reduction and sci-tech development. 

The Vietnamese officers are scheduled to visit some units of the *Chinese army *and participate in several cultural and sport activities. 

The exchange also helps strengthen the traditional relations between the parties, states and armies of Vietnam and China.

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## soaringeagle

It is about disaster prevention, poverty reduction and sci-tech development, what is wrong about that?
Even during war time you are suppose to treat your wounded enemy whenever possible, right?
Oh, that is not in your culture?!..........



Viet said:


> That news is totally weird!
> 
> 
> Chinese, Vietnamese young officers cement ties
> 
> Updated : 6/3/2013 3:33:09 PM Voice Of Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Young Vietnamese officers visited China in 2011. Photo: Tienphong_
> 
> 
> A week-long exchange between young officers of the *Vietnamese *People&#8217;s Army and the *Chinese* People&#8217;s Liberation Army is taking place in China to boost the two countries&#8217; military relations.
> 
> At the event, starting from June 2, they shared experiences in encouraging the youth&#8217;s participation in disaster prevention, poverty reduction and sci-tech development.
> 
> The Vietnamese officers are scheduled to visit some units of the *Chinese army *and participate in several cultural and sport activities.
> 
> The exchange also helps strengthen the traditional relations between the parties, states and armies of Vietnam and China.


----------



## Viet

soaringeagle said:


> It is about disaster prevention, poverty reduction and sci-tech development, what is wrong about that?
> Even during war time you are suppose to treat your wounded enemy whenever possible, right?
> Oh, that is not in your culture?!..........


You got me wrong. I welcome a closer ties between the two countries´s armies. I just wonder how nice the PLA can be.

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## soaringeagle

My apology Mr. Viet.
Their are quite a lot of nice PLA officers with open mind, esp in the younger generation.
Time have changed, no body want to push their soldiers to die at the front line, unless national security is threatened.
The best is to easy the tension and co exist.

I wish time will heal the old scars.

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## EastSea

*Four Indian naval ships to visit Da Nang*

VietNamNet Bridge - Four Indian naval ships carrying 1,200 officers and sailors will dock at the Tien Sa Port in Da Nang city to have exchange operations with Vietnam&#8217;s navy from June 4 to 8.











According to the Da Nang Department of Information and Communications, the four Indian naval vessels include the guided missile destroyer INS Satpura (F48), the logistics ship INS Shakti (A57), the destroyer INS Ranvijay (D55) and the corvette INS Kirch (P62).
In five days, the two navies will have many activities such as organizing tours to the ships for the Indian community in Vietnam and Da Nang officials; exchange of expertise between the Command of Navy Region 3 and the crew of INS Satpura; friendly volleyball games between the Indian crews with officers and soldiers of the Command of Navy Region 3.
On this occasion, the ship captains will visit the Cham Museum, the Centre for Street Children in Da Nang, music exchange between bands of the Indian vessels with the art troupe of Military Zone 5. Specifically, 90 children of the Centre for Street Children will be visiting the Indian naval ships.
The guided missile destroyer INS Satpura has 50 officers and 350 sailors. It is 143 m long, 17 m wide, with a tonnage of 5,300 tons, speed of up to 32 nautical miles per hour.
The INS Shakti logistics ship carries 30 officers and 200 sailors. It is 175 m long, 25 m wide, with a tonnage of 27,500 tons, speed of up to 20 nautical miles per hour.
The INS Ranvijay destroyer has 50 officers and 400 sailors. It is 146m long, 15.8 m wide, weighing 4,974 tons and speed of 35 nautical miles per hour. The INS Kirch corvette has a tonnage of 1,460 tons, 91m in length, 10.5 m in width, and speed of up to 25 nautical miles per hour. This corvette carries 170 officers and sailors.
On January 1, the naval training ship Sudarshini carried 6 officers and 70 sailors to Da Nang. The visit lasted for three days to celebrate 40 years of diplomatic relations between Vietnam - India.
PV

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## NiceGuy

Group leading European weapons will support Vietnam
Thales considers Vietnam is one of the development objectives of the Group's strategy in the region, especially in the defense sector.





Thales Rapidfire air defense artillery system

On 3 June 2013, at the Vietnam's Ministry of Defense Headquarters, Admiral Nguyen Van Hien, Deputy Minister of Defense to receive Mrs. Pascale Sourisse, vice president in charge of development of the international Thales Group (France) to visit and work in Vietnam.

At the meeting, Admiral Nguyen Van Hien congratulated Mrs. Pascale Sourisse to be the newly appointed position of vice president in charge of development of the international Thales Group. 

Appreciate the cooperation results in recent years, Deputy Minister Nguyen Van Hien proposed Thales Group continues to send experts to support the Vietnam Ministry of Defense technology employed for the program, a joint project of the soon. 

For her part, Ms. Pascale Sourisse said that Thales affirmed Vietnam is one of the development objectives of the Group's strategy in the region, especially in the defense sector and pledged to support Vietnam in training. 

Thales is a multinational conglomerate operating worldwide, providing integrated solutions and equipment for the aerospace, transportation, defense and security. 
Asitimes: Group leading European weapons will support Vietnam

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## NiceGuy

Group leading European weapons will support Vietnam
Thales considers Vietnam is one of the development objectives of the Group's strategy in the region, especially in the defense sector.





Thales Rapidfire air defense artillery system

On 3 June 2013, at the Vietnam's Ministry of Defense Headquarters, Admiral Nguyen Van Hien, Deputy Minister of Defense to receive Mrs. Pascale Sourisse, vice president in charge of development of the international Thales Group (France) to visit and work in Vietnam.

At the meeting, Admiral Nguyen Van Hien congratulated Mrs. Pascale Sourisse to be the newly appointed position of vice president in charge of development of the international Thales Group. 

Appreciate the cooperation results in recent years, Deputy Minister Nguyen Van Hien proposed Thales Group continues to send experts to support the Vietnam Ministry of Defense technology employed for the program, a joint project of the soon. 

For her part, Ms. Pascale Sourisse said that Thales affirmed Vietnam is one of the development objectives of the Group's strategy in the region, especially in the defense sector and pledged to support Vietnam in training. 

Thales is a multinational conglomerate operating worldwide, providing integrated solutions and equipment for the aerospace, transportation, defense and security. 
Asitimes: Group leading European weapons will support Vietnam

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## Viet

soaringeagle said:


> My apology Mr. Viet.
> Their are quite a lot of nice PLA officers with open mind, esp in the younger generation.
> Time have changed, no body want to push their soldiers to die at the front line, unless national security is threatened.
> The best is to easy the tension and co exist.
> 
> I wish time will heal the old scars.


You sound very reasonable, are more sympathic than some of Internet Chinese trollers here in the forum. By the way how is the food at the PLA?


----------



## soaringeagle

When I was doing charity work in rural part of China the PLA did help our organisation in a few occasions. I was invited to tour the local PLA training camp a couple of times. Soldiers appears to be well fed from central kitchens, food quality is decent and training appears to be quite systematic, esp in sharp shooting and modern war fare for the junior officers.
There are some smart officials in the PLA, as I am sure there are in the VNA also.
Well, there are keyboard warriors on all sides I am sure. Actual political and military issues are not as simple as what they think.
Best regards.



Viet said:


> You sound very reasonable, are more sympathic than some of Internet Chinese trollers here in the forum. By the way how is the food at the PLA?

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## NiceGuy

*Indian Navy to hold rescue drill in Da Nang*
Last update: 13:09 | 05/06/2013
VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; During the four days friendship visit to Vietnam, besides the cultural, sports exchange, the Indian Navy will have a joint rescue rehearsal with the Vietnam Navy in East Sea


At noon on June 4, four naval ships of the Eastern Fleet of India, including INS Satpura guided missile frigate (F48), INS Shakti logistics ship (A57), INS Ranvijay destroyer (D55) and INS Kirch escort vessel (P62), carrying 1,200 officers and sailors, docked at Tien Sa Port (Da Nang) to begin the four-day visit to this city, from June 4 to 8.

At the welcome ceremony, the representative of the High Command of People's Navy of Vietnam appreciated the visit of the Indian Navy, to tighten the diplomatic relations between the two countries and to promote cooperation in the military and non-military sectors in the future.

Representing the Indian Navy, Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P, Commander of the Eastern Fleet, said he was very moved to receive a warm welcome from Vietnam. "The Indian Navy and the Vietnam Navy have deep ties, cooperation and development in areas such as training crew for submarines, providing additional, support equipment for the Vietnam navy...," he said.








The visit aims to promote cooperation relations between the two navies.





Recognizing the importance of the East Sea for countries in the region in economic development, security and defense ... Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P said: "India respects the island and marine sovereignty of the countries in the East Sea. I believe and expect that in the future, leaders of these countries will find a common voice for the East Sea issue in the spirit of peace, adhere to international law."

He said in a recent visit, the Indian Navy and the Malaysian Navy had a rehearsal on May 23. Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P also revealed that on June 8, when the four Indian ships leave Tien Sa port, there will *have a small exercise with the Vietnam Navy on rescue in the East Sea.*

"In the future, I hope that the Vietnam Navy and Indian Navy will have exercises at higher levels," Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P added.

It is expected that the Indian navy would have a courtesy meeting with the leaders of Da Nang City, the High Command of Military Region V and the High Command of Navy Region 3. The Indian ships will also open for the Indian community in Vietnam and 90 children from Center for Street Children Protection of Da Nang. There will have expertise exchange between the High Command of Navy Region 3 with the crew of INS Satpura and a lot of sport and cultural exchange activities between the two navies.

On 8/6, the four Indian Navy ships will leave Tien Sa port.

The guided missile destroyer INS Satpura has 50 officers and 350 sailors. It is 143 m long, 17 m wide, with a tonnage of 5,300 tons, speed of up to 32 nautical miles per hour.

The INS Shakti logistics ship carries 30 officers and 200 sailors. It is 175 m long, 25 m wide, with a tonnage of 27,500 tons, speed of up to 20 nautical miles per hour.

The INS Ranvijay destroyer has 50 officers and 400 sailors. It is 146m long, 15.8 m wide, weighing 4,974 tons and speed of 35 nautical miles per hour. The INS Kirch corvette has a tonnage of 1,460 tons, 91m in length, 10.5 m in width, and speed of up to 25 nautical miles per hour. This corvette carries 170 officers and sailors.

English - VietNamNet News

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## NiceGuy

http://img.cdn2.vietnamnet.vn/Images/english/2013/06/05/13/20130605130616-2.JPG
Indian Navy to hold rescue drill in Da Nang
Last update: 13:09 | 05/06/2013
VietNamNet Bridge &#8211; During the four days friendship visit to Vietnam, besides the cultural, sports exchange, the Indian Navy will have a joint rescue rehearsal with the Vietnam Navy in the East Sea.





The four naval vessels of India at the Tien Sa Port of Da Nang on June 4.



At noon on June 4, four naval ships of the Eastern Fleet of India, including INS Satpura guided missile frigate (F48), INS Shakti logistics ship (A57), INS Ranvijay destroyer (D55) and INS Kirch escort vessel (P62), carrying 1,200 officers and sailors, docked at Tien Sa Port (Da Nang) to begin the four-day visit to this city, from June 4 to 8.

At the welcome ceremony, the representative of the High Command of People's Navy of Vietnam appreciated the visit of the Indian Navy, to tighten the diplomatic relations between the two countries and to promote cooperation in the military and non-military sectors in the future.

Representing the Indian Navy, Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P, Commander of the Eastern Fleet, said he was very moved to receive a warm welcome from Vietnam. "The Indian Navy and the Vietnam Navy have deep ties, cooperation and development in areas such as training crew for submarines, providing additional, support equipment for the Vietnam navy...," he said.



The visit aims to promote cooperation relations between the two navies.





Recognizing the importance of the East Sea for countries in the region in economic development, security and defense ... Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P said: "India respects the island and marine sovereignty of the countries in the East Sea. I believe and expect that in the future, leaders of these countries will find a common voice for the East Sea issue in the spirit of peace, adhere to international law."

He said in a recent visit, the Indian Navy and the Malaysian Navy had a rehearsal on May 23. Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P also revealed that on June 8, when the four Indian ships leave Tien Sa port, there will have a *small exercise with the Vietnam Navy on rescue in the East Sea.
*
"In the future, I hope that the Vietnam Navy and Indian Navy will have exercises at higher levels," Rear Admiral Ajit Kumar P added.

It is expected that the Indian navy would have a courtesy meeting with the leaders of Da Nang City, the High Command of Military Region V and the High Command of Navy Region 3. The Indian ships will also open for the Indian community in Vietnam and 90 children from Center for Street Children Protection of Da Nang. There will have expertise exchange between the High Command of Navy Region 3 with the crew of INS Satpura and a lot of sport and cultural exchange activities between the two navies.

On 8/6, the four Indian Navy ships will leave Tien Sa port.

The guided missile destroyer INS Satpura has 50 officers and 350 sailors. It is 143 m long, 17 m wide, with a tonnage of 5,300 tons, speed of up to 32 nautical miles per hour.

The INS Shakti logistics ship carries 30 officers and 200 sailors. It is 175 m long, 25 m wide, with a tonnage of 27,500 tons, speed of up to 20 nautical miles per hour.

The INS Ranvijay destroyer has 50 officers and 400 sailors. It is 146m long, 15.8 m wide, weighing 4,974 tons and speed of 35 nautical miles per hour. The INS Kirch corvette has a tonnage of 1,460 tons, 91m in length, 10.5 m in width, and speed of up to 25 nautical miles per hour. This corvette carries 170 officers and sailors.English - VietNamNet News

Time for Idian bro to flex ur muslce to big mouth China

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> You got me wrong. I welcome a closer ties between the two countries´s armies. I just wonder how nice the PLA can be.



early PLA






1990s PLA






modern PLA






Here is the a Chinese drama about the modern PLA, it may not be 100% accurate, but it gives a brief impression about the life in the PLA camp.
[



Sorry for posting the off-topic stuffs, but just to answer the curiosity from 'Viet', and since China and Vietnam wanna deepen the military exchange.

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## NiceGuy

> Sorry for posting the off-topic stuffs, but just to answer the curiosity from 'Viet', and since China and Vietnam wanna deepen the military exchange.


22 senior military officers training in China 

16:42 | June/05/2013 | 

On 6/6/2013, delegation of senior officials of the People's Army of Vietnam to China to participate in 15-day courses

The elegation include 22 generals, senior officers as officer in charge of the Party and political work at the unit level strategic and military campaigns, basic training, with practice experience and is resource planning for the next term.


> 22 s&#297; quan c&#7845;p cao quân &#273;&#7897;i t&#7853;p hu&#7845;n t&#7841;i Trung Qu&#7889;c
> 16:42 | 05/06/2013
> |
> Ngày 6/6, &#272;oàn cán b&#7897; chính tr&#7883; cao c&#7845;p c&#7911;a Quân &#273;&#7897;i Nhân dân Vi&#7879;t Nam s&#7869; sang Trung Qu&#7889;c tham gia khóa h&#7885;c 15 ngày, trong khuôn kh&#7893; &#272;&#7873; án 165 c&#7911;a Ban T&#7893; ch&#7913;c Trung &#432;&#417;ng và th&#7887;a thu&#7853;n h&#7907;p tác qu&#7889;c phòng gi&#7919;a 2 n&#432;&#7899;c.
> &#272;oàn g&#7891;m 22 t&#432;&#7899;ng l&#297;nh, s&#297; quan c&#7845;p cao là cán b&#7897; ch&#7911; trì công tác &#272;&#7843;ng, công tác chính tr&#7883; t&#7841;i các &#273;&#417;n v&#7883; c&#7845;p chi&#7871;n l&#432;&#7907;c, chi&#7871;n d&#7883;ch toàn quân, &#273;&#432;&#7907;c &#273;ào t&#7841;o c&#417; b&#7843;n, có nhi&#7873;u kinh nghi&#7879;m th&#7921;c ti&#7877;n và là ngu&#7891;n quy ho&#7841;ch cho nhi&#7879;m k&#7923; t&#7899;i.
> 
> 22 s

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## Soryu

*HQ Hanoi Kilo Submarines Completed Testing*



> HQ 182 Hanoi diesel submarine (photo : BMPD)
> 
> 
> Itar-Tass (Russia) reported shipyard Admiratly Verfi end testing first non-nuclear submarines HQ-182 Hanoi Vietnam People's Navy.
> 
> Shipyard Admiratly Verfi will hand over to the Vietnam People's Navy 2 diesel electric powered submarine - Project 636 Kilo class diesel this year. Under the plan, the 3rd ship will be launched in August. And this year, the 4th will be booted.
> 
> Earlier, sources in the Russian military industrial complex revealed to Itar-Tass, in December last year Kilo submarines were first program successfully completed the first test phase, in which all systems and ship's machinery works well. Diving submarine has successfully 12 times, including a deep dive.
> 
> "The national test of the first ship will be completed in the summer. By September this year will conduct trials and handed the ship over to Vietnam," the source said.
> 
> According to sources, the 2nd of Kilo submarines named Ho Chi Minh contract was launched in late 2012. Earlier in January this year, Admiratly Verfi began work finishing some categories of ships. In 3-4 months, the ship was anchored in the harbor at the trial and then the trip to sea trials.
> 
> Factory Admiratly Vefi are urgently implement the remaining vessel fabrication. In February, the plant has closed steel cutting ceremony 6 Kilo submarines for Vietnam People's Navy.
> 
> "The work was carried out exactly according to the approved schedule," said the representative of the Russian defense industry said.
> 
> During his visit to Russia in May this year, Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has stated: "We are very grateful to you Russia, who will close and transfer to Vietnam before 2016 6 Kilo class submarines under the agreement has been signed. "
> 
> According to the prime minister, this order "not only commercial in nature, but it is an expression of friendship and trust between our two countries." In addition, the Prime Minister also said that the military-technical cooperation Vietnam - Russia "does not stop at six submarines, we wait for the weapons and military technical equipment other."
> 
> In 2009, Vietnam signed a deal worth nearly $ 2 billion to buy six submarines attack non-nuclear Russian Kilo Project 636. This contract, in addition to closing the submarine also includes training sailors Vietnam, as well as providing equipment and technical supplies needed.
> 
> Non-nuclear attacks submarine the Project 636 Kilo class submarines of the 3rd generation. Length 73.8 m, 9.9 m wide, stretch of water when submerged nearly 4,000 tons, a maximum depth of 300m.
> 
> Project 636 is designed to make submarines and anti-submarine ships, as well as creating the means to defend the naval base, the coastal road and sea reconnaissance patrol operating in the enemy lines.
> 
> The ship is equipped with 6 torpedo launchers 533mm sizes allow release of anti-submarine torpedoes and anti-ship missiles, supersonic 3M-54E Klub-S.
> 
> (TienPhong)

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> early PLA
> Here is the a Chinese drama about the modern PLA, it may not be 100% accurate, but it gives a brief impression about the life in the PLA camp.
> 
> Sorry for posting the off-topic stuffs, but just to answer the curiosity from 'Viet', and since China and Vietnam wanna deepen the military exchange.


Don´t worry, pls continue making your contributions, I appreciate it.
Here are some pictures from the fourth Vietnam-China strategic dialogue on defence in Beijing on June 5. 2013






_VN´s Deputy Minister of Defence Nguyen Chi Vinh and Chinese Defence Minister Chang Wanquan_






_Vietnam-China strategic dialogue on defence in Beijing on June 5. _

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## Viet

Vietnam, Thailand strengthen air force cooperation

Updated : 6/4/2013 5:02:50 PM





(VOV) - Vietnamese and *Thai Air Forces* will expand cooperation in the lead up to the establishment of a strategic partnership between the two countries. 

The agreement was reached during the two *Air Force Commanders*&#8217; talks in Bangkok on June 4 as part of a Vietnamese Air Defence and Air Force delegation&#8217;s four-day visit to Thailand.

Commanders Phuong Minh Hoa of Vietnam and Prajin Jantong of Thailand agreed to exchange high-level visits, strengthen *training cooperation*, share meteorological information, coordinate in flood and storm prevention, and consult on aviation medicine.

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## BoXilai

Some new photos from Navy.

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## visom

BoXilai said:


>



Is that gun an L85?


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## Fsjal

visom said:


> Is that gun an L85?



Tavor TAR-21 

Israeli gun

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## Viet

_Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and Deputy Chief of General Staff of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army Qi Jianguo before the dialogue (Source: VNA)_
Beijing 07/06/2013 | 22:36:00

Vietnam-China defence talks

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## Viet

*Vietnam, Australia enhance defence cooperation*

Updated : 6/8/2013 10:05:29 AM




_Logo of Australian Defence College_

Vietnam and *Australia *will continue strengthening bilateral relations in various fields such as the exchange of delegations, dialogue consultations, English training, medical military, and the search for those missing in action.

Lieutenant General Vo Van Tuan, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army was speaking while receiving Major General Craig Orme, Commander of* Australian Defence College* (COMADC), in Hanoi on June 7. 

He affirmed that the memorandum of understanding (MoU) signed by the Defence Ministries of Vietnam and Australia in 2010 has facilitated bilateral defence cooperation and both sides are well realizing this document.

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## Viet

*Vietnam, Japan willing to boost defence cooperation*

03/06/2013 | 21:41:27
Vietnam Plus





_Logo of National Institute for Defence Studies of Japan_

Both Vietnam and *Japan *are willing to promote their defence cooperation through strengthening the exchange of delegations and cooperation in personnel training as well as other fields of mutual concern. 

The willingness was stressed during a meeting between Lieutenant General Vo Van Tuan, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army and visiting Nobushige Takamizawa, President of the *National Institute for Defence Studies* under Japan &#8217;s Ministry of Defence, in Hanoi on June 3.

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## ViXuyen

Modular blocks of the 3rd Molniya FAC under assembly in Ba Son shipyard


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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> 22 senior military officers training in China
> 
> 16:42 | June/05/2013 |
> 
> On 6/6/2013, delegation of senior officials of the People's Army of Vietnam to China to participate in 15-day courses
> 
> The elegation include 22 generals, senior officers as officer in charge of the Party and political work at the unit level strategic and military campaigns, basic training, with practice experience and is resource planning for the next term.


PLA still training Vietnamese senior officers ?! 
Hope PLA high-tech weapons will deeply impress these officers and let them see how the PLA soldiers training today.


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## cnleio

BoXilai said:


> Some new photos from Navy.


They r VPA Special Force, some Vietnamese special teams equip Israeli 5.56x45mm CTar-21 carbine and 7.62x51mm galil sniper rifle


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## Soryu

cnleio said:


> PLA still training Vietnamese senior officers ?!
> Hope PLA high-tech weapons will deeply impress these officers and let them see how the PLA soldiers training today.


Of course we'll feel impression with your toys, but we also have Russian and Israel's stuff ... 


cnleio said:


> They r VPA Special Force, some Vietnamese special teams equip Israeli 5.56x45mm CTar-21 carbine and 7.62x51mm galil sniper rifle


SF and Naval Infantry got those new equipments ...

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## VietHome

cnleio said:


> They r VPA Special Force, some Vietnamese special teams equip Israeli 5.56x45mm CTar-21 carbine and 7.62x51mm galil sniper rifle


No, they are not special force, they are out Marines.


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## cnleio

VietHome said:


> No, they are not special force, they are out Marines.


Navy Marines ? I ever read news said they'r Army S.F units
old pics


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## BoXilai

cnleio said:


> They r VPA Special Force, some Vietnamese special teams equip Israeli 5.56x45mm CTar-21 carbine and 7.62x51mm galil sniper rifle[/IMG]



Special Force:

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## cnleio

Preparing for counter-terrorism exercise







VPA's RPG

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## cnleio

BoXilai said:


> Special Force:


Well they looks SPECIAL, which rifle is the standard equipment for these S.F memebers, AK47(type56) ? or Israel Tar-21 & Galil ? or AR15 carbion only showed once at last Vietnam military parade ?


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## BoXilai

cnleio said:


> Well they looks SPECIAL, which rifle is the standard equipment for these S.F memebers, AK47(type56) ? or Israel Tar-21 & Galil ? or AR15 carbion only showed once at last Vietnam military parade ?



Tar 21&Galil -> Navy Marines.
AK47/Type56 -> It's old and be replacing by other guns, however, it will be good for exercises of militias or teaching program in normal high schools/universities. 
AR-15 appears many times in military parades but I think Special Forces usually uses Uzi Co2 and MP5.

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## Fsjal

BoXilai said:


> Special Force:



In the last pic, when did Vietnam start having M4 carbines. Is it domestically made in Vietnam?


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## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> In the last pic, when did Vietnam start having M4 carbines. Is it domestically made in Vietnam?



It's CAR-15, made by Vietnam from some refurbished components ...

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## cnleio

Vietnam military factory pic

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## Rechoice

*French naval ships to visit Vietnam *
Last Updated: Sunday, June 09, 2013 06:20:00





Helicopter carrier Tonnerre. Photo: Masur

Two French Navy vessels on a mission to train cadets from several countries will visit Vietnam from June 18 to 21.

Helicopter carrier Tonnerre will berth in Vung Tau while the anti-submarine warfare frigate Georges Leygues will visit Ho Chi Minh City, said the French consulate in HCMC in a press release late last week.

The Tonnerre is captained by Colonel Jean-François Quérat, and the Georges Leygues by Lieutenant Colonel Romuald Bomont.

The training of 123 midshipmen from a number of countries including Brazil, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and Vietnam, began in March 2013 and will end in July 2014, according to the release.

The mission will take them to the Atlantic and Indian Oceans and the Mediterranean and Vietnam's East Seas &#8211; also known as the South China Sea.

RELATED CONTENT
French cruiser visits Vietnam's northern port city
A delegation from in and around France&#8217;s northwestern city of Brest will arrive in Vietnam to coincide with the visit of the naval vessels to promote economic and scientific cooperation.

Earlier, to mark the France-Vietnam Friendship Year and the 40th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two nations, French patrol vessel L&#8217;Adroit, designed for maritime protection, visited Hai Phong from May 27 to June 1.

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## Soryu

*Vietnam modern fighter patrol Spartly Islands*






*Anti-air missiles:*






*Su-30MK2 from the 923rd Fighter Regiment*

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## Viet

_On the way from Russia to Vietnam
_





_3M-14E missiles (range of 290 km, warhead weighed 400 kg) will be on-board of Kilo attack submarines_

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## NiceGuy

New marine police ship (no: 8003), bought from S.K, ready for ramming mission

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## Soryu

NiceGuy said:


> New marine police ship (no: 8003), bought from S.K, ready for ramming mission


So it's ready for commission!?
Last time heard about in late 2012, so long untill now.

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## NiceGuy

French ship docks at Ba Ria-Vung Tau
(VOV) - The French naval ship Tonnerre docked at Baria Serece-Phu My Port in Ba Ria-Vung Tau province&#8217;s Tan Thanh district on June 18

Thailand naval ship visits HCM City
NZ naval ship visits HCM City
US naval ship docks at Cam Ranh Bay
The vessel&#8217;s visit is part of activities marking the 40th anniversary of Vietnam-France bilateral ties.

On morning of its arrival, the Department of Foreign Relations and the Ministry of National Defence&#8217;s Institute for Defence Strategy representatives joined HCM City Foreign Affairs Office staff to brief the ship&#8217;s crew on Vietnamese national defence policies.

The French ship Georges Leygues is also currently visiting Vietnam, docking at HCM City Port. Both ships are carrying a total of 123 naval officer trainees from different countries, including one Vietnamese.

Tonnerre is the French Navy&#8217;s newest ship and the world&#8217;s leading amphibious assault helicopter carrier. It can accommodate up to 16 heavy transport helicopters or 35 light transport helicopters, four high-speed amphibious vessels, and 70 tanks. 
French ship docks at Ba Ria-Vung Tau | VOV Online Newspaper













its time to ask for aiding some modern ships from our old boss

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## VietHome

cnleio said:


> Navy Marines ? I ever read news said they'r Army S.F units
> old pics


No, they are not, they are Navy Marines whose specialty is to recapture islands that were taken by "foreign country." Chinese news sources misidentified them as spacial force but they are not. However, since they are highly equipped, you can call them Navy Seals if you prefer that term. 
Special Force has different uniform

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## Soryu

NiceGuy said:


> French ship docks at Ba Ria-Vung Tau
> (VOV) - The French naval ship Tonnerre docked at Baria Serece-Phu My Port in Ba Ria-Vung Tau province&#8217;s Tan Thanh district on June 18
> 
> Thailand naval ship visits HCM City
> NZ naval ship visits HCM City
> US naval ship docks at Cam Ranh Bay
> The vessel&#8217;s visit is part of activities marking the 40th anniversary of Vietnam-France bilateral ties.
> 
> On morning of its arrival, the Department of Foreign Relations and the Ministry of National Defence&#8217;s Institute for Defence Strategy representatives joined HCM City Foreign Affairs Office staff to brief the ship&#8217;s crew on Vietnamese national defence policies.
> 
> The French ship Georges Leygues is also currently visiting Vietnam, docking at HCM City Port. Both ships are carrying a total of 123 naval officer trainees from different countries, including one Vietnamese.
> 
> Tonnerre is the French Navy&#8217;s newest ship and the world&#8217;s leading amphibious assault helicopter carrier. It can accommodate up to 16 heavy transport helicopters or 35 light transport helicopters, four high-speed amphibious vessels, and 70 tanks.
> French ship docks at Ba Ria-Vung Tau | VOV Online Newspaper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its time to ask for aiding some modern ships from our old boss



SIGMA deal has many technologies from Thales own by Frence, so I think we will get their supply for defense.

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## EastSea

New photo for old weapons. SU 300 PMU1.

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## BoXilai

Ka-28 anti-submarines helicopters.

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## Soryu

EastSea said:


> New photo for old weapons. SU 300 PMU1.



I heard they were upgared to S-300PMU2 !???

P/S: S-300PMU, not SU 300PMU


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## EastSea

Soryu said:


> I heard they were upgared to S-300PMU2 !???
> 
> P/S: S-300PMU, not SU 300PMU



The original mark is SU300MPU1+++, but I dont understand what does the last "+++" mean.


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## EastSea

*Vietnamese Chief of the General Staff visits USA and France
*

PANO &#8211; Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army and Deputy Defence Minister, Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, leading a high-ranking Vietnamese military delegation left Hanoi on June 15th to begin a visit to the USA and France.






The Vietnamese delegation visits the USA from June 17th to 22nd at the invitation of Chairman of the US Joint Staff, General Martin E. Dempsey and then visits France from June 23rd to 26th at the invitation of Chief of the French Joint Staff, Admiral Edouard Guillaud.

The Vietnamese delegation includes Commander of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Air Defence and Air Force, Lieutenant General Truong Minh Hoa; Deputy Chief of General Department 2, Lieutenant General Pham Ngoc Hung; Deputy Commander of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Navy, Rear Admiral Nguyen Van Ninh; Chief of the Office of the General Staff, Major General Pham Huu Manh; and Chief of the Defence External Affairs Department, Major General Vu Chien Thang.

The visits aim to boost friendly relations and mutual understanding between the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army and the US Army and French Army, for the sake of peace, stability, cooperation and development in the region and world.

Translated by Thu Nguyen

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## Viet

*Vietnam, US bolster defence ties*


Updated : 6/21/2013 6:17:43 PM




_Sen. Lieut. Gen. Do Ba Ty - the Vietnam Peoples Army Chief of General Staff - and US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Army General Martin Dempsey
_

(VOV) - The two sides are intent on continuing visit exchanges, consultations, and dialogues.

Deputy Defence Minister Sen. Lieut. Gen. Do Ba Ty - the Vietnam Peoples Army Chief of General Staff - recently has led a delegation to the US at the invitation of US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Army General Martin Dempsey.

Ty has talked with the media about the visit.

Reporter: Can you tell us about the visits aim and its meaning?

Mr Ty: Vietnam-US relations have progressed in recent years, including in national defence.

The visit is a good chance to promote friendship and mutual understanding between the two countries armies, pushing defence cooperation to a height that matches the success of bilateral friendship and cooperation.

It affirms Party and State foreign policy of independence, self-reliance, multilateralisation, and diversification of external relations, aiming to raise the countrys and armys prestige on the world stage and help international friends better their understanding of Vietnamese land, people, and military.








Reporter: What results did the two sides achieve during the visit?

Mr Ty: General Martin Dempsey and I had a frank, open, and constructive discussion on issues of mutual concern. We reviewed the results of recent cooperation and talked about future defence cooperation in line with the principles of respect for independence, sovereignty, unification, territorial integrity, non-interference in each other's internal affairs, equality and mutual benefit.

The two defence ministries gave in principle agreement to the implementation of a signed memorandum of understanding.

The two sides will continue to exchange visits, consultations, and dialogues on dealing with the consequences of war, including landmine and unexploded ordnance clearance, the search for MIAs, and removing dioxin chemical residue.

They agreed to continue search and rescue, army medicine, and humanitarian collaboration with the aim of strengthening mutual trust for future cooperative endeavours.

The US side expressed a willingness to support Vietnam and share experiences in maritime policing and the UNs peace-keeping activities.

I also invited General Martin and his wife to visit Vietnam.

The two sides confirmed they will unite at regional and international forums wherever possible, especially at the ASEAN Defence Ministers' Meeting plus (ADMM+) to make positive contributions to maintaining regional peace, stability, and cooperation.

The Vietnamese delegation used the visit to meet with senators and US military leaders and were introduced to some army units. Both sides were generally pleased with the landmark visits results.

Reporter: Can you tell us about the prospects for defence cooperation in the future?

Mr Ty: Vietnam-US relations have developed stably under the framework of a constructive partnership. High-ranking military visit exchanges demonstrate the recent success of defence cooperation. I think that if the two sides pay great attention to reinforcing strategic trust and work on disentangling their stubborn differences, the future of their bilateral defence ties is bright.

Thank you very much.

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## Viet

I am not sure if the Chinese are amused?


Vietnam






_Vietnamese army chief visits Pentago_n






_Pentagon_






_US Army_

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## Viet

earlier this year in America...

_A delegation from Vietnamese Army poses with Oregon National Guard leadership in the Senate chamber at the Oregon State Capitol in Salem, Ore., April 15, 2013. The group, led by Lt. Gen. Tran Quang Khue, top left, the deputy chief of general staff of the Vietnam People's Army, met with Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber as part of a State Partnership Program visit. (U.S. Army photo by Master Sgt. Nick Choy/Released)_

















































_F-15 Eagle_

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## Fsjal

Viet said:


> I am not sure if the Chinese are amused?
> 
> 
> Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vietnamese army chief visits Pentago_n
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Pentagon_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _US Army_



Nope. Anyway, the Chinese have sent generals to US, for discussions.


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## walle990

Fsjal said:


> Nope. Anyway, the Chinese have sent generals to US, for discussions.



The chinese general that said if US tried to intervene in a Taiwan / Mainland conflict, continental US would be hit with nuclear weapons. He was then instantly promoted and later invited to the Pentagon.

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## Viet

walle990 said:


> The chinese general that said if US tried to intervene in a Taiwan / Mainland conflict, continental US would be hit with *nuclear weapons*. He was then instantly promoted and later invited to the Pentagon.


great to hear how Chinese diplomacy works, simple but effective. 



Fsjal said:


> Nope. Anyway, the Chinese have sent generals to US, for *discussions*.


I think China has talks with the US, so can Vietnam. Talks bring benefit to all of us

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## Viet

*Commandos practise parachuting*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Viet said:


> earlier this year in America...
> 
> _A delegation from Vietnamese Army poses with Oregon National Guard leadership in the Senate chamber at the Oregon State Capitol in Salem, Ore., April 15, 2013. The group, led by Lt. Gen. Tran Quang Khue, top left, the deputy chief of general staff of the Vietnam People's Army, met with Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber as part of a State Partnership Program visit. (U.S. Army photo by Master Sgt. Nick Choy/Released)_
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> _F-15 Eagle_



Vietnamese are pretty short..

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## Fsjal

Viet said:


> *Commandos practise parachuting*



Why do they not wear helmets, like the PLAAF 15th Airborne Corps and Russian Airborne Troops?
Anyway, are they like an elite unit? (As in just elite units, not special forces)



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Vietnamese are pretty short..



You mean, most Asians.



walle990 said:


> The chinese general that said if US tried to intervene in a Taiwan / Mainland conflict, continental US would be hit with nuclear weapons. He was then instantly promoted and later invited to the Pentagon.



What is his name?
Anyway, he could order a nuclear missile unit to destroy USA.


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## BoXilai

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Vietnamese are pretty short..



Average height of Vietnamese is about 165.7cm for men and 155.2 for women(20-25), 162.1cm for men and 152.2cm for women(25-29). The height of people is uneven, facial features are also quite different. I'm 175cm height and for my friends, I'm tall.

Vietnamese men (in Hanoi):
- Under Nguyen Dynasty:






- Unknown year (1975 - 1980):






- Today (Ready to join Army):

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## nufix

Fsjal said:


> Why do they not wear helmets, like the PLAAF 15th Airborne Corps and Russian Airborne Troops?
> Anyway, are they like an elite unit? (As in just elite units, not special forces)




Maybe it's only a static jump exercise which usually doesn't includes the training for after jump battle that requires battle helmets. The thing on their heads were to protect the head from bumps while jumping.













> Indonesian airborne troops with head-bump protector.



The differences occur if the jump was to be followed by series of battle when they touched the ground.

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## EastSea

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Vietnamese are pretty short..



Yes, you are right.

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## visom

Vietnamese are short? Vietnamese Americans in the US average at least 170cm, I'm 172.

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## dichvuluat2

President Truong Tan Sang asked the National Defence Academy to study deeply the global military science, especially modern and hi-tech warfare issues to advise the Party, State and the army and serve its training.


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## ViXuyen

Stop getting off topic with the chit chat like Vietnamese height or politics etc; please post only Vietnamese military related photos and videos in this thread. 

Another patrol boat underconstruction, 400 tons

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## ViXuyen

Marine Police
Ta

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## Kompromat

Vietnam is a great nation. Peace to you all.

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## BoXilai

visom said:


> Vietnamese are short? *Vietnamese Americans in the US* average at least 170cm, I'm 172.



Most of Vietnamese now are short, bro. Vietnamese Americans? They have good living conditions. You can see Vietnamese who was born in 1990s is much higher than people of previous generations. Diet is very important in height increasing. Ration of Vietnamese now was changed a lot. Under war time, most of people has not the breakfast. The last war of us has just passed for 24 years.

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## NiceGuy

Train guard Ly Thai, Dinh Tien Hoang Visit China
Two bodyguards ship missiles Dinh Tien Hoang ( HQ 011 ) and Ly Thai To ( HQ 012 ) have left for Da Nang, starts China visit.





Train guard Ly Thai, Dinh Tien Hoang Visit China
Colonel Nguyen Duc Nho Deputy Chief of Navy , two most advanced warship of Vietnam Navy will conduct joint patrols with Chinese ship crew boat Dinh Tien Hoang ( HQ 011 ) prepare to departure , Vietnam two ships docked in Zhanjiang, Guangdong Province, implementation of exchanges, exchange, visit. The purpose of the mission, by Navy leadership, is to build mutual trust, strengthening partnerships for stability, peace in the region . 

Ships can undertake patrol duties, escort, spreader pulled, and assist fire and hunting targets like ships, submarine, Tau Ly Thai plane ( HQ 012 ) made &#8203;&#8203;formal offers to leave the port and harbor , capable of destroying targets at a distance of up to 130 km, 1 76.2 mm cannon multifunction &#1040;&#1050; 176&#1052; with Laska control system has shown high efficiency shoot the target surface, the air and on the shore . Weapons .

In addition, thereby reducing the radar revealed that the ship difficult to detect. With the fast moving speed ( 28 knots / hour ), 39 Gepard like hunting leopards, gentle approach goals and blow down \u0026 ldquo , up to 28 knots / hour , Vietnam has signed a contract with Rosoboronexport to supply additional 2 rocket ships guardian of Project Gepard 39 , Gepard class shipyard 39 \u0026 ndash, Sergei Rudenko said, if 2 ships Gepard Vietnam 's first 39 is equipped with anti-ship missiles today's most popular modern Russian
Train guard Ly Thai, Dinh Tien Hoang Visit China | DBV | VietNam News

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## BoXilai

NiceGuy said:


> Train guard *Ly Thai*, Dinh Tien Hoang Visit China
> Two bodyguards ship missiles Dinh Tien Hoang ( HQ 011 ) and Ly Thai To ( HQ 012 ) have left for Da Nang, starts China visit...



Ly Thai To, not Ly Thai. 

Lý thái T&#7893;: &#26446;&#22826;&#31062; (First emperor of Lý Dynasty (&#26446;&#26397 who moved capital from Hoa L&#432; to Th&#259;ng Long(Hà N&#7897;i), made Buddhist became national religion,...).






&#272;inh Tiên Hoàng: &#19969;&#20808;&#30343;(First emperor of &#272;inh Dynasty (&#19969;&#26397 who defeated 12 rebel lords after the collapse of Early Lê Dynasty (&#21069;&#40654;&#26397, became emperor in 968 AC. He changed the country name of Vietnam to &#272;&#7841;i C&#7891; Vi&#7879;t(&#22823;&#30655;&#36234, took Hoa L&#432; as the capital.)

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## cnleio

Ka-28 ASW helicopter

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## Rechoice



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## Rechoice

Soryu said:


> I heard they were upgared to S-300PMU2 !???
> 
> P/S: S-300PMU, not SU 300PMU





EastSea said:


> The original mark is SU300MPU1+++, but I dont understand what does the last "+++" mean.



Testing after upgrading.


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## Soryu

Rechoice said:


> Testing after upgrading.



It's a Scud missile, not S-300PMU ...


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## Rechoice

Soryu said:


> It's a Scud missile, not S-300PMU ...



Sorry, sorry bro.

Bonus for your correction.






Bastion-P ?


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## Soryu

Rechoice said:


> Sorry, sorry bro.
> 
> Bonus for you correction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bastion-P ?



Bastion-P for sure. I think we will not see new upgraded system S-300PMU2 for right now in 2013.
May be it will come up with new Tor or Buk and Pantsir-S1 missile system ...

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## Viet

Well, many of the current army leadership are short as they suffered hunger during the wars. Unbelieveable, but the government just approved a plan to raise the height.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/so...on-for-raising-vietnamese-youths--height.html







_Chief of General Staff of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army, Sen. Lieut. Gen. Do Ba Ty, on June 24, 2013 began his four-day official visit to France to further boost defence ties between the two countries. Meeting Admiral Edouard Guillaud, Chief of Defence Staff of France in Paris._

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## Viet

The Tonnerre, an elite warship of the French Navy visits Vung Tau, The Tonnerre is one of three most modern amphibious ships in Europe. Each ship costs appro. $600 million. The vessel can carry four high speed landing crafts, 70 tanks or armored vehicles and 450 soldiers.

Welcome France!












Lieutenant Colonel Benoit De Guibert, vice-captain of the Tonnerre warship introduced about the vessel.

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## Viet

Welcome Korea!



*RoK coast guard ship visits Vietnam*


Q&#272;ND - Tuesday, June 25, 2013, 21:33 (GMT+7)


















PANO &#8211; A ship of the Republic of Korea (RoK) number 3012 with 68 officers and sailors on board docked at Ba Ria-Vung Tau province on June 24th, starting a 5-day visit to Vietnam.

The RoK guests were welcomed by representatives from the Vietnam Marine Police Department, the Ba Ria-Vung Tau provincial People&#8217;s Committee and Border Guard Command, the Military Zone 7 Command, and the RoK&#8217;s Consulate in Ho Chi Minh City.











_A female officer of the RoK Coast Guard _








The visit of the RoK delegation, led by Major-General Ko Myung Suk, Head of the Department of Equipment and Technology, under the RoK Coast Guard Command, aims to promote international cooperation and share experience between the two nations&#8217; marine police forces.

On June 25th, the RoK coast guards and Vietnam marine police joined an exercise on fire fighting and prevention, and search and rescue (SAR), and then left for Ho Chi Minh City Port.

The ship, 112m in length and 14m in width, is equipped with modern weapons and SAR equipment.

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## Viet

* Vietnam and RoK marine police hold joint exercise in
fire prevention and fighting, and search and rescue (SAR), on June 25th 2013*

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## Viet

Funny to Vietnamese Navy visits the South China Sea fleet of the Chinese Navy (the Nanhai Fleet).



*Vietnam&#8217;s naval ships visit China&#8217;s Nanhai Fleet*

Wenesday, 26/06/2013 - 01:40 PM (GMT+7) VNA











_At the welcome ceremony (qdnd.vn)_

Two of Vietnam&#8217;s naval ships arrived in the coastal city of Zhan Jiang in the China southern province of Guangdong on June 25 as part of a courtesy visit to the region&#8217;s municipal authorities and the *High Command of the Nanhai Fleet*.

The visit by HQ 011 and HQ 012 forms part of a wider tour of China which takes place during the 15th joint patrol of the naval forces.

Following a welcome ceremony hosted by Deputy Chief of Staff of the Nanhai Fleet, Zhang Chuan Shu, the Vietnam sailors and officers attended a meeting with their colleagues.

Colonel Nguyen Duc Nho, the leader of the Vietnam delegation, briefed his hosts on the itinerary of the joint patrol, which included several training exercises and drills on search and rescue operations at sea.

Since 2005, the Vietnam Navy and the Nanhai Fleet have conducted joint patrols in the Gulf of Tonkin, which have created conditions for the two sides to share experience in search and rescue missions at sea.

*Major General Zhang Zhao Yin*, Deputy Commander of the Nanhai Fleet, spoke of the successful joint patrol and expressed his wish for the two countries&#8217; naval forces to continue their co-operation in delegation exchanges, joint patrols, personnel training and sea security discussion.

Meanwhile, other Vietnam sailors and officers visited members of the Zhan Jiang municipal People&#8217;s Committee.

The joint patrols aim to strengthen friendly relations and mutual trust between the two armies and navies, thus contributing to the maintenance of order and security in the Gulf of Tonkin and the waters of Vietnam.
(Source: VNA)

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Funny to Vietnamese Navy visits the South China Sea fleet of the Chinese Navy (the Nanhai Fleet).
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnam&#8217;s naval ships visit China&#8217;s Nanhai Fleet*
> 
> Wenesday, 26/06/2013 - 01:40 PM (GMT+7) VNA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _At the welcome ceremony (qdnd.vn)_
> 
> Two of Vietnam&#8217;s naval ships arrived in the coastal city of Zhan Jiang in the China southern province of Guangdong on June 25 as part of a courtesy visit to the region&#8217;s municipal authorities and the *High Command of the Nanhai Fleet*.
> 
> The visit by HQ 011 and HQ 012 forms part of a wider tour of China which takes place during the 15th joint patrol of the naval forces.
> 
> (Source: VNA)


I think these actions are very good, may be.
VN President visited PRC, and many cooperations follow it on after that will help decrease tensions with China in SCS.
Of course, We should not let our guard down in any case.

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## Fsjal

Soryu said:


> I think these actions are very good, may be.
> VN President visited PRC, and many cooperations follow it on after that will help decrease tensions with China in SCS.
> Of course, *We should not let our guard down in any case*.



Agree. 
Even if its your ally, no countries should keep their guard down, even with a great ally. One day, an ally might become an enemy.

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## Viet

*(VOV) -President Truong Tan Sang and his delegation arrived in Jakarta on June 27 for their two-day official visit to Indonesia at the invitation of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.*

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## Viet

*Vietnam, Thailand move towards strategic partnership
(VOV) - The two countries have agreed to issue a joint statement on establishing a strategic partnership.
*

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## Soryu

Republic of Korea Coast Guard visit and exercise in Vietnam:

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## ViXuyen

Pictures taken from Viet Nam's UAV

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## Viet

*VN, Indonesia set up strategic partnership*


TUOITRENEWS
UPDATED : 06/28/2013 12:15 GMT + 7






_President Truong Tan Sang and his wife (2nd and 1st L) received by Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and his wife in Jakarta on June 27, 2013_

During their talks in Jakarta on Thursday, Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and visiting Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang agreed to boost the two countries&#8217; relations into a strategic partnership.

President Yudhoyono agreed to soon set up a Vietnam-Indonesia Friendship Association to enhance the mutual understanding of the two countries&#8217; people.

The two presidents shared the view that both countries will make stronger efforts to increase two-way trade from more roughly US$4.6 billion in both 2011 and 2012 to US$5 billion by 2015 and $10 billion by 2018. In the first six months of 2013, the two countries&#8217; two-way trade reached $2.1 billion.

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## Viet

_Vietnam's defense chief Do Ba Ty (right) with Army General Martin Dempsey at the Pentagon June 20 2013. Photo courtesy of Vietnam News Agency_






_historic handshake (Nov. 9, 1995) Robert McNamara, the former US defence chief with the retired General of the Vietnamese Army Võ Nguyên Giáp, two former enemies in the second Indochina war. _






_old pic of Robert McNamara, the architect of Vietnam war_






_old pic of Vietnamese Army General Võ Nguyên Giáp, the founder of Vietminh and the Vietnamese People´s Army_

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## Soryu

_ ITAR-TASS News inform that Admiralty Shipyard commitment will assigned two Submarine for Vietnam Navy in this year (9/2013). 
_ They also laid first keel for 6th Submarine for VPA Navy in June - 2013.






---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vietnamese Air force has completed upgrade two S-300 system to PMU2+++ standard

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## Soryu

VPA Navy Gepard 3.9 corvette - HQ-11 '&#272;inh Tiên Hoàng':


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## Soryu

_VPA Navy's Gepard 3.9 frigate - HQ-11_ *vs* _PLAN's Type 054A frigate - 570_  (repost with higher resolution)

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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> _VPA Navy's Gepard 3.9 frigate - HQ-11_ *vs* _PLAN's Type 054A frigate - 570_  (repost with higher resolution)


2,000ton FFG vs 4,000ton FFG 
After 20x 054A project(current 16x in PLAN,4x building) and China start to build 054B class next year ...

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## Rechoice

*Air Forces of Vietnam Navy*


On 3/7, Department of Defense organizations has been handover Brigade 954 from the Air Force and Air Deference Forces to the Vietnam Navy and the Navy announced its decision to set up a helicopter Regiment 930, Division 372 under command of Vietnam Navy.





Lieutenant General Vo Van Tuan, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Vietnam People's Army led Navy commander, Air Defense - Air Force, Army Command Region 5 and Da Nang City People's Committee to attend.

Brigade 954 Air Force was handed over to the Navy decision on 25/6 of the Defence Minister. Earlier, the Minister has signed a decision on the reorganization of the 954th Regiment of the Air Force Air Force Brigade 954. Naval Aviation Brigade 954 can perform the following tasks: The War submarine hunting, military transport, reconnaissance, aerial observation, on the ground, on the water, search and rescue at sea, on land and rescue, salvage and flood prevention.



Once established, 930 Regiment helicopter flying observation missions; directive target reconnaissance aerial, ground and surface water; duty military transport Central Region - Southern Highlands and Gulf Tonkin special flights for the Party, State and Army and participate in search and rescue, salvage, flood control, ready to perform combat tasks and assist synergistic firing line not for the armed forces has ordered the army and organize transfer of flight training for helicopter pilot trainee officers of the Air Force ...

According to the People's Army

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## NiceGuy

Vietnam pilots flying DHC-6 Twin Otter flying over the coast province of British Columbia, western Canada during training when buying those plane

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## NiceGuy

VN returns 11kg of highly-enriched uranium to Russia
TUOITRENEWS
UPDATED : 07/04/2013 12:31 GMT + 7






Vietnam has returned the last remaining 106 highly enriched uranium (HEU) fuel assemblies (FAs), weighing 11 kilograms, from the Da Lat Nuclear Research Institute to Russia, the Vietnam Atomic Energy Institute reported.

The return was completed on Wednesday, July 3, when the FAs was transported to Russia on a Russian AN-124-100 cargo plane, said Dr Nguyen Nhi Dien, deputy head of the institute and head of the Da Lat Nuclear Research Institute.

In order to load the HEU onto a plane safely for return, eight experts from Russia, the US and the Czech Republic, as well as 16 Vietnamese engineers from the Da Lat Nuclear Research Institute, worked together for nearly a month, Dien said.

This is the result of the cooperation between the Vietnamese Ministry of Science and Technology, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Russia's State Atomic Energy Corporation (ROSATOM), and the United States' National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA).

Le Vinh Vinh, deputy director of the Institute&#8217;s Reaction Center, said that in 2009 the institute returned 36 HEU fuel assemblies (36 percent of U-235) to Russia. 

Those HEU FAs had not been used before being returned so transfer was easy, Vinh said.

Meanwhile, the 106 FAs that were returned on July 3 were completely different, since they had been placed in the reactor since 1983, when the former Soviet Union manufactured and supplied them for the institute.

After 28 years of being used, they were handled to reduce their radioactivity, but the radioactivity remains high and can cause major problems if a leak occurs, Vinh said. 

In order to ensure safety for the return process, a 12-ton container with30 cm thick walls was sent to Da Lat from the Czech Republic to hold the FAs.

Security was tightened before and during the return to ensure safety until the Russian plane took off, Dr Dien said.

With this shipment, Vietnam became the eleventh country, after Romania and the Czech Republic, from which all HEU has been removed since US President Barack Obama&#8217;s 2009 announcement in Prague of an international effort to secure all vulnerable nuclear material around the world.

&#8220;After these HEU FAs are returned to Russia, their uranium enrichment levels will be lowered to make them suitable for use for civil purposes, Dien said.

*In response to speculation spread online that the returned 11 kg uranium is equal to the material needed for half of an atomic bomb, experts from the Da Lat Reactor Center rejected the rumors as groundless.*

*&#8220;It is unlikely for HEU fuel assemblies 36 percent of U-235 tio be sued to produce atomic bomb. According to current technologies, the enrichment level must be more than 80 percent,*&#8221; Dr Dien said.

VN returns 11kg of highly-enriched uranium to Russia | Tu

In VN news, its said 16 kg instead of 11 kg.

in fact : No one can check our enrichment level, thats why it has a rumor of making Nuke bomb in VN during Cold war

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## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> VN returns 11kg of highly-enriched uranium to Russia
> TUOITRENEWS
> UPDATED : 07/04/2013 12:31 GMT + 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam has returned the last remaining 106 highly enriched uranium (HEU) fuel assemblies (FAs), weighing 11 kilograms, from the Da Lat Nuclear Research Institute to Russia, the Vietnam Atomic Energy Institute reported.
> 
> The return was completed on Wednesday, July 3, when the FAs was transported to Russia on a Russian AN-124-100 cargo plane, said Dr Nguyen Nhi Dien, deputy head of the institute and head of the Da Lat Nuclear Research Institute.
> 
> In order to load the HEU onto a plane safely for return, eight experts from Russia, the US and the Czech Republic, as well as 16 Vietnamese engineers from the Da Lat Nuclear Research Institute, worked together for nearly a month, Dien said.
> 
> This is the result of the cooperation between the Vietnamese Ministry of Science and Technology, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Russia's State Atomic Energy Corporation (ROSATOM), and the United States' National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA).
> 
> Le Vinh Vinh, deputy director of the Institute&#8217;s Reaction Center, said that in 2009 the institute returned 36 HEU fuel assemblies (36 percent of U-235) to Russia.
> 
> Those HEU FAs had not been used before being returned so transfer was easy, Vinh said.
> 
> Meanwhile, the 106 FAs that were returned on July 3 were completely different, since they had been placed in the reactor since 1983, when the former Soviet Union manufactured and supplied them for the institute.
> 
> After 28 years of being used, they were handled to reduce their radioactivity, but the radioactivity remains high and can cause major problems if a leak occurs, Vinh said.
> 
> In order to ensure safety for the return process, a 12-ton container with30 cm thick walls was sent to Da Lat from the Czech Republic to hold the FAs.
> 
> Security was tightened before and during the return to ensure safety until the Russian plane took off, Dr Dien said.
> 
> With this shipment, Vietnam became the eleventh country, after Romania and the Czech Republic, from which all HEU has been removed since US President Barack Obama&#8217;s 2009 announcement in Prague of an international effort to secure all vulnerable nuclear material around the world.
> 
> &#8220;After these HEU FAs are returned to Russia, their uranium enrichment levels will be lowered to make them suitable for use for civil purposes, Dien said.
> 
> *In response to speculation spread online that the returned 11 kg uranium is equal to the material needed for half of an atomic bomb, experts from the Da Lat Reactor Center rejected the rumors as groundless.*
> 
> *&#8220;It is unlikely for HEU fuel assemblies 36 percent of U-235 tio be sued to produce atomic bomb. According to current technologies, the enrichment level must be more than 80 percent,*&#8221; Dr Dien said.
> 
> VN returns 11kg of highly-enriched uranium to Russia | Tu
> 
> In VN news, its said 16 kg instead of 11 kg.
> 
> in fact : No one can check our enrichment level, thats why it has a rumor of making Nuke bomb in VN during Cold war



Make a nuclear bomb, and China shall sanction you. If you launch nuclear missiles (Which I doubt Vietnam has expertise on nuclear warhead miniaturization) on China, China will retaliate.

Anyway, Vietnam is years behind China in nuclear technology.


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## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> Make a nuclear bomb, and China shall sanction you. If you launch nuclear missiles (Which I doubt Vietnam has expertise on nuclear warhead miniaturization) on China, China will retaliate.
> 
> Anyway, Vietnam is years behind China in nuclear technology.


China nuclear technology is just a cheap copy from Soviet or USA when we were taught secretly by Soviet big bro during cold war coz we were Soviet's ally

if we didnt make nuke bomb, then we wouldnt need nuke capable missile like Shaddock


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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> VN returns 11kg of highly-enriched uranium to Russia
> 
> In VN news, its said 16 kg instead of 11 kg.
> 
> in fact : No one can check our enrichment level, thats why it has a rumor of making Nuke bomb in VN during Cold war


Whatever 16kg or 11kg highly-enriched uranium, they'r only 36% purity far far away for 80% nuclear weapon-level.
I'm just curious what Vietnam did by using these HEU fuel assemblies in 1983 ?



> the 106 FAs that were returned on July 3 were completely different, since they had been placed in the reactor since 1983, when the former Soviet Union manufactured and supplied them for the institute.


1983 former S.U provided 106 36% FAs to Vietnam, now 2013 Vietnam still return 36% uranium to Russia. At least we know Vietnam didn't get the nuclear centrifugal machines(ofcourse no country could export it) and can't purify weapon-level uranium, or must less than original weight.

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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Whatever 16kg or 11kg highly-enriched uranium, they'r only 36% purity far far away for 80% nuclear weapon-level.
> I'm just curious what Vietnam did by using these HEU fuel assemblies in 1983 ?
> .


to made nuke warhead of course, 36% is just a news to please China and our ASEAN neighbours, China cant check it. We were not so crazy when sided with Soviet to fight against China without possessing nuke bomb 


cnleio said:


> 1983 former S.U provided 106 36% FAs to Vietnam, now 2013 Vietnam still return 36% uranium to Russia. At least we know Vietnam didn't get the nuclear centrifugal machines(ofcourse no country could export it) and can't purify weapon-level uranium, or must less than original weight.


Soviet sent many secret machines to VietNam during cold war, who knows they sent nuclear centrifugal machines and assembled them in secret place VN or not


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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> to made nuke warhead of course, 36% is just a news to please China and our ASEAN neighbours, China cant check it. We were not so crazy when sided with Soviet to fight against China without possessing nuke bomb
> 
> Soviet sent many secret machine to VietNam during cold war, who knows they sent nuclear centrifugal machines and assembled them in secret place VN or not


36% uranium at most for a dirty warhead, not a nuke. U always like dreaming, Did Vietnam ever explode one nuclear bomb before? Of course in ur smiple brain, Vietnam could skip nuclear ground test and directly throw it in next War. LOL

P.S nuclear centrifugal machines r top secret of highest confidential, Even U.S, Russia, China never export it to any third country. Coz that machine could easily lead to nuclear War of WWIII and ruin whole human race.

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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> 36% uranium at most for a dirty warhead, not a nuke. U always like dreaming, Did Vietnam ever explode one nuclear bomb before? Of course in ur smiple brain, Vietnam could skip nuclear ground test and directly throw it in next War. LOL


So, Did Israel ever explode one nuclear bomb before ? why every one know they possess nuke bomb ??

if Israel can test its nuke bomb in USA, then we VN could offer a nuke test in Soviet,too


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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> So, Did Israel ever explode one nuclear bomb before ? why every one know they possess nuke bomb ??
> 
> if Israel can test its nuke bomb in USA, then we VN could offer a nuke test in Soviet,too



Nuclear Weapons Testing - Israel


> There is no evidence that Israel has ever carried out a nuclear test, although many observers speculated that a suspected nuclear explosion in the southern Indian Ocean in 1979 was a joint South African-Israeli test.



Nuclear Test Sites


> Prince Edward Island, Indian Ocean
> Site of the South African/Israeli nuclear test.




Good Luck, dude~ Don't mess up nuke bomb in ur hands !

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*The HQ-011 frigate after a joint naval patrol with the Chinese Navy.*






*And with the Chinese frigate.*





*Truong Sa islands = Spratly islands*

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## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> China nuclear technology is just a cheap copy from Soviet or USA when we were taught secretly by Soviet big bro during cold war coz we were Soviet's ally
> 
> if we didnt make nuke bomb, then we wouldnt need nuke capable missile like Shaddock



Shaddock missiles fitted with nuclear warhead. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

Oh please, thse junks can don't have capability.

Oh, and the Chinese CJ-10 cruise missile could wipeout Hanoi in minutes.

And what do you mean "cheap copy?"
The Chinese only received little help. And they detonate a nuke during hardships.

Damn you must be cuckoo in believing that Russia helps make nukes for Vietnam. And if they did, it would fizzle like North Korean nukes.

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## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> Shaddock missiles fitted with nuclear warhead. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Oh please, thse junks can don't have capability.
> 
> Oh, and the Chinese CJ-10 cruise missile could wipeout Hanoi in minutes.
> 
> And what do you mean "cheap copy?"
> The Chinese only received little help. And they detonate a nuke during hardships.
> 
> Damn you must be cuckoo in believing that Russia helps make nukes for Vietnam. And if they did, it would fizzle like North Korean nukes.


Idiot at max,why dont u google before talking crap?


The P-5 "Pyatyorka" (Russian: &#1055;-5 «&#1055;&#1103;&#1090;&#1105;&#1088;&#1082;&#1072;»; "Pyatyorka", "fiver" in English), also known by the NATO codename SS-N-3C Shaddock, was a Cold War era turbojet-powered cruise missile of the Soviet Union, designed by the Chelomey design bureau. The missile entered service in 1959. Pyatyorka is a common name for the missile as the "digit 5", corresponding to the R-7 Semyorka, the digit 7.

The basic version of the missile was an inertially-guided submarine-launched cruise missile to threaten the US coast. *The missile could be armed with either a 1000 kg high explosive or a 200 or 350 kt nuclear warhead.* It had a speed of about 0.9 Mach, range of 500 km and CEP of about 3000 m. The later variant had a range of possibly up to 1000 km. The first missiles were installed in Project 644, Whiskey Twin Cylinder and Project 665, Whiskey Long Bin submarines.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-5_Pyatyorka

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## NiceGuy

Transfer 16kg uranium back to Russia

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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> China nuclear technology is just a cheap copy from Soviet or USA when we were taught secretly by Soviet big bro during cold war coz we were Soviet's ally
> 
> if we didnt make nuke bomb, then we wouldnt need nuke capable missile like Shaddock



1st 20 thousand TNT explosion of China atomic bomb,1964-10






1st 3.30 million TNT explosion of China hydrogen bomb, 1969-6






1st explosion of China neutron bomb,1989

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## EastSea

cnleio said:


> 1st 20 thousand TNT explosion of China atomic bomb,1964-10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1st 3.30 million TNT explosion of China hydrogen bomb, 1969-6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1st explosion of China neutron bomb,1989



You can show it of in China Military thread, kid.


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## Fsjal

NiceGuy said:


> Idiot at max,why dont u google before talking crap?
> 
> 
> The P-5 "Pyatyorka" (Russian: &#1055;-5 «&#1055;&#1103;&#1090;&#1105;&#1088;&#1082;&#1072;»; "Pyatyorka", "fiver" in English), also known by the NATO codename SS-N-3C Shaddock, was a Cold War era turbojet-powered cruise missile of the Soviet Union, designed by the Chelomey design bureau. The missile entered service in 1959. Pyatyorka is a common name for the missile as the "digit 5", corresponding to the R-7 Semyorka, the digit 7.
> 
> The basic version of the missile was an inertially-guided submarine-launched cruise missile to threaten the US coast. *The missile could be armed with either a 1000 kg high explosive or a 200 or 350 kt nuclear warhead.* It had a speed of about 0.9 Mach, range of 500 km and CEP of about 3000 m. The later variant had a range of possibly up to 1000 km. The first missiles were installed in Project 644, Whiskey Twin Cylinder and Project 665, Whiskey Long Bin submarines.
> P-5 Pyatyorka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



If it was to be used as nuclear missile for Vietnam, the missile would be a big target. The missile can be intercepted by short range SAMs. Also, the CEP is terrible. Compare to modern long range nuclear cruise missiles like CJ-10, KH-55, Babur and Nirbhay, the Shaddock is big.

So tell me, does Vietnam posses the skill to arm these junks with nuclear warhead?

And also, will this missile be as effective as other modern cruise missiles?



EastSea said:


> You can show it of in China Military thread, kid.



Show us images of your "secret" nuclear test.

Oh wait, its not real.

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## EastSea

Fsjal said:


> Show us images of your "secret" nuclear test.
> 
> Oh wait, its not real.



no need to test, testing should be done on heads of our enemy in real time.

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## Major Shaitan Singh




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## Reashot Xigwin

Don't Niceguy realize that Vietnam signed a no nuke treaty with the rest of ASEAN?







> *The Southeast Asian Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone Treaty* (SEANWFZ) or the Bangkok Treaty of 1995, is a nuclear weapons moratorium treaty between 10 Southeast Asian member-states under the auspices of the ASEAN: Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. It was opened for signature at the treaty conference in Bangkok, Thailand, on 15 December 1995 and it entered into force on March 28, 1997 and *obliges its members not to develop, manufacture or otherwise acquire, possess or have control over nuclear weapons.*



*VN moves to ensure nuclear weapon-free ASEAN*

*Vietnam is working together with other ASEAN countries to ensure the region is free from nuclear weapons and calls on nuclear weapon states worldwide to recognise the Southeast Asian Nuclear Weapon Free Zone Treaty.*

http://en.vietnamplus.vn/Home/VN-moves-to-ensure-nuclear-weaponfree-ASEAN/20114/17415.vnplus

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## NiceGuy

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Don't Niceguy realize that Vietnam signed a no nuke treaty with the rest of ASEAN?


It just toilet paper used to please China and ASEAN neighbours, so no one can complain us any more when US allow VN to enrich uranium in our own soil. In fact no ASEAN nations or China can check our enrichment proccess

We r very good at using toilet paper to cheat our enemy, poor China knew it coz they were cheated by our former prime minister Pham Van Dong's letter abt thos disputed islands

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## Fsjal

Well, I have learnt something new, and that is Vietnam being a backstabbing nation, developing illegal dirty bombs.

I doubt Vietnam would really make one, and there is no proof, just fanboy's wet dream.

Also, Vietnam lacks the technological skills. 

Anyway, Cold War is OVER.

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## NiceGuy

Fsjal said:


> Well, I have learnt something new, and that is Vietnam being a backstabbing nation, developing illegal dirty bombs.
> 
> I doubt Vietnam would really make one, and there is no proof, just fanboy's wet dream.
> 
> 
> Anyway, Cold War is OVER.


36% uranium enriched is enough for us to make dirty warhead during Cold War,that why when we attacked Thailand,no one even US,China dared to figh with our brave and loyal invincible army 

We only return 16kg uranium to Russia and of course we still store hundreds kg of HEU uranium, with nuke capable Shaddoc we will bring down all enemies to our knees if they dare to harm our core interest 


> Also, Vietnam lacks the technological skills.


We have the right to enrich uranium in our own soil,and Russia-US will teach us the newest uranium enrichment technology soon


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## Nike

NiceGuy said:


> *It just toilet paper used to please China and ASEAN neighbours*, so no one can complain us any more when US allow VN to enrich uranium in our own soil. In fact no ASEAN nations or China can check our enrichment proccess
> 
> We r very good at using toilet paper to cheat our enemy, poor China knew it coz they were cheated by our former prime minister Pham Van Dong's letter abt thos disputed islands



If it just a toilet paper you can recommend your leader to take an exit door from ASEAN community and just don't try to talk with us when China and other countries trying to bullying you. Even when Myanmar joint ASEAN, Western Countries doesn't have any right to meddle in their junta business. ASEAN is not an defence organization or just an ordinary regional forum, ASEAN is a family organization which share the same goal to make harmonies and bring prosperities to ASEAN peoples.

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## NiceGuy

madokafc said:


> If it just a toilet paper you can recommend your leader to take an exit door from ASEAN community and just don't try to talk with us when China and other countries trying to bullying you. Even when Myanmar joint ASEAN, Western Countries doesn't have any right to meddle in their junta business. ASEAN is not an defence organization or just an ordinary regional forum, ASEAN is a family organization which share the same goal to make harmonies and bring prosperities to ASEAN peoples.


ASEAN was founed to fight against VietNam, now u guys accepted us to join, so why must we take exit door ??

btw: only VN help Phil against China, Laos-Camb are our special friend, so at least three ASEAN nations dont want VN to stay out of ASEAN now 


> ASEAN Declaration or Bangkok Declaration is the founding document of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN). It was signed in Bangkok on 8 August 1967 by the five ASEAN founding members - Indonesia, Singapore, Philippines, Malaysia and Thailand as a display of *solidarity against Communist expansion in Vietnam* and communist insurgency within their own borders (nowadays the ASEAN is also home to communist Southeast Asian states after they joined the organisation). It states the basic principles of ASEAN such as cooperation, amity and non-interference.[1]
> ASEAN Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



To us, all kind of treaties are just toilet papers, only Real power will help us survive .


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## Viet

_pic shows sub hunter HQ-15 on Hai Minh Shipyard X51 repair dock, capable receiving ships with displacement of up to 5,000 tons, uncluding Gepards frigates.

source: tuoi tre_

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## Viet

_"Caretakers" of Sukhoi jet fighters in air base in the southern province of Dong Nai, engineers and technicians are checking a jet before a flight.

source: tuoi tre_

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## Viet

_On patrol on a EC-225 helicopter. 

11-ton-class EC-225 helicopter combines long-range performance with a very large cabin &#8211; accommodating up to 19 passengers in crashworthy seats.

With a service flight ceiling of 5.9km and a max weight of 24,251 lbs, an EC-225 can accommodate two pilots and 19 passengers and operate at a maximum speed of 275.5 kph. Its integrated display system, advanced avionics and digital 4-axis automatic pilot significantly reduces flight crew workload, improves mission effectiveness and increases operational safety.

source: tuoi tre
_

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## Nike

NiceGuy said:


> ASEAN was founed to fight against VietNam, now u guys accepted us to join, so why must we take exit door ??
> 
> btw: only VN help Phil against China, Laos-Camb are our special friend, so at least three ASEAN nations dont want VN to stay out of ASEAN now
> 
> 
> To us, all kind of treaties are just toilet papers, only Real power will help us survive .



Compare to Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia Navy, Vietnam Navy right now is a shame how can you expect to meet PLAN in Naval conflict (as LCS situation may lead it into naval conflict) without adeQuate support from your immediate neighbour countries who had some capabilities to hold Chinese Navy. If you want to depend yourself to country without Naval power like Laos and Cambodja and mini Navy like Phil. you just can expect all of the upper hand will be in Chinese side. Asean Countries must working together to hold major power like India, China, and even USA at bay while they are trying to meddle in our business as a sovereign country. And if you wanna get a Nuke and trying to get it, every bigpower in the world will had their reasons to meddle into Asean business especially China which had tremendous interest in Asean. 

Asean never forbid any of it members to get some conventional power not matter how advanced the technology it has, and not matter how much they stocpilled it (like Singapore did right now), but they had concern if some of its members trying to get Nuclear weapons.

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## Soryu

madokafc said:


> Compare to Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia Navy, Vietnam Navy right now is a shame how can you expect to meet PLAN in Naval conflict (as LCS situation may lead it into naval conflict) without adeQuate support from your immediate neighbour countries who had some capabilities to hold Chinese Navy.


Nothing to shame about Vietnam Navy.

That's most combat experience in ASEAN countries. If you talking about modern ships and equipments, so it's depend on economy condition and national budget.
But in National defense issue, there is still has many section to care, we still deal with it.

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## NiceGuy

madokafc said:


> Compare to Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia Navy, Vietnam Navy right now is a shame how can you expect to meet PLAN in Naval conflict (as LCS situation may lead it into naval conflict) without adeQuate support from your immediate neighbour countries who had some capabilities to hold Chinese Navy.


if you dont know, let me remind you that even mighty US senven fleet also got high casulties during VN war, so let alone ASEAN and China poor power and useless navy ,dude .


madokafc said:


> If you want to depend yourself to country without Naval power like Laos and Cambodja and mini Navy like Phil. you just can expect all of the upper hand will be in Chinese side. Asean Countries must working together to hold major power like India, China, and even USA at bay while they are trying to meddle in our business as a sovereign country. And if you wanna get a Nuke and trying to get it, every bigpower in the world will had their reasons to meddle into Asean business especially China which had tremendous interest in Asean.
> .


Same answer above, only US senven fleet can make us worry, other navy is just a easy meat to beat to us.


madokafc said:


> Asean never forbid any of it members to get some conventional power not matter how advanced the technology it has, and not matter how much they stocpilled it (like Singapore did right now), but they had concern if some of its members trying to get Nuclear weapons


if u feel worry abt our nuclear plan, then try to convince US to not allow VN to enrich uranium in our own soil now (even Japan can do like that coz its so close to make nuke bomb), or we can sigh more paper to make u happy. But we still go on our own way, we still store hundreds kg of 36% enriched HEU, enough to make few dirty warheads and fitted them to nuke capable Shaddock to scare our bad neighbours

Anyway, with the right to enrich uranium on our own soil, your concern have no use to us, you'd better to accept Vn as new nuclear power nation from now

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## ViXuyen

I've heard that the U.S wants to bid on the 5th and 6th nuclear reactors of Viet Nam. If the U.S is not willing to let Viet Nam enrich uranium, there is no point of doing business with the U.S as they do not offer Viet Nam anything different than the Russian or Japanese.

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## BoQ77

Niceguy : I thought you are not Vietnamese, even Vietnam's friend when saying bad things to ASEAN friends.


to ASEAN: 
Vietnam suffered many years in war, that cause us away from world trend in economics, now we need some time to learn again, and peace to develop,

the threat from the Northern "friend" is a big to everyone, but we used to be familiar with that threat during thousand year.

We never surrender, that our characteristic, ASEAN could count us as the first shield if any conflict arise and someone harm to ASEAN peace and prosperity. But peace is priority as above mentioned.

We are trustworthy as a partner, an alliance ... against the Northern threat ...

Someone is wrong to put Vietnam navy oppose to Indo, Malay, Sing navy... let's put Vietnam navy beside allies of ASEAN

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## NiceGuy

BoQ77 said:


> We never surrender, that our characteristic, ASEAN could count us as the* first shield* if any conflict arise and someone harm to ASEAN peace and prosperity. But peace is priority as above mentioned.
> 
> We are trustworthy as a partner, an alliance ... against the Northern threat ...
> 
> Someone is wrong to put Vietnam navy oppose to Indo, Malay, Sing navy... let's put Vietnam navy beside allies of ASEAN


U wanna be their shield ?? oki, ur choice, dont drag other Vnese in, and I think Phil also dont wanna be a shield for Indo, Malay, Sing, too.


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## Nike

BoQ77 said:


> Niceguy : I thought you are not Vietnamese, even Vietnam's friend when saying bad things to ASEAN friends.
> 
> 
> to ASEAN:
> Vietnam suffered many years in war, that cause us away from world trend in economics, now we need some time to learn again, and peace to develop,
> 
> the threat from the Northern "friend" is a big to everyone, but we used to be familiar with that threat during thousand year.
> 
> We never surrender, that our characteristic, ASEAN could count us as the first shield if any conflict arise and someone harm to ASEAN peace and prosperity. But peace is priority as above mentioned.
> 
> We are trustworthy as a partner, an alliance ... against the Northern threat ...
> 
> Someone is wrong to put Vietnam navy oppose to Indo, Malay, Sing navy... let's put Vietnam navy beside allies of ASEAN



Your country is not our shield, but your country is our dearly friend, indeed a friend must came in need when the other need their help. And Indonesia always will be the first to come to your aid if the Chinese came to invade ASEAN countries, whatever their reasons. But put that violent ways such as war, aggressions,etc. aside, we must using diplomacy which must be back it up with strong presence of our armed Forces behind every of our words.

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## BoQ77

madokafc said:


> Your country is not our shield, but your country is our dearly friend, indeed a friend must came in need when the other need their help. And Indonesia always will be the first to come to your aid if the Chinese came to invade ASEAN countries, whatever their reasons. But put that violent ways such as war, aggressions,etc. aside, we must using diplomacy which must be back it up with strong presence of our armed Forces behind every of our words.



We would not let big enemy threaten us and our friends. 
In South China sea, we get the supports of all countries except China and Taiwan. 
Please go beside us, never thinking about chance yours oppose to ours.

Let's see what China doing to Phillipines right now.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Your country is not our shield, but your country is our dearly friend, indeed a friend must came in need when the other need their help. And I*ndonesia always will be the first to come to your aid if the Chinese came to invade ASEAN countries, whatever their reasons. *But put that violent ways such as war, aggressions,etc. aside, we must using diplomacy which must be back it up with strong presence of our armed Forces behind every of our words.


Indonesia comes to rescue? I welcome your help if true, but I am afraid that will remain empty word.

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## Minjitta

madokafc said:


> If it just a toilet paper you can recommend your leader to take an exit door from ASEAN community and just don't try to talk with us when China and other countries trying to bullying you. Even when Myanmar joint ASEAN, Western Countries doesn't have any right to meddle in their junta business. ASEAN is not an defence organization or just an ordinary regional forum, ASEAN is a family organization which share the same goal to make harmonies and bring prosperities to ASEAN peoples.


Your tunnel vision with your false flagger can not recognize what going on around you? China wanted to take Vietnam and Japan first because the political geographic that china have to over come before taking the rest of Asian, Indonesia and other Asian nations are no that far away from china reach. Don't think what happen to Vietnam, Phillipines, and Japan doesn't effect you.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

Kamov Ka-32T 






M1 Special Task Forces





Molniya missile boat program













Vietnam's South Chinese sea Garrison










*We will die for our country is to live*





*Su-22M3 from the C21 Fighter Regiment.*

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*Special Task Forces Students*

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## Reashot Xigwin

*'Tank Buster' Over the Shoulder of Vietnam Navy*






_Matador is a 90 mm (3.5 in) man-portable, disposable anti-armor weapon system (all photos : Phunu Today) _

*(PhunuToday) - Matador is a light anti-tank missiles in accordance with the task of protecting and occupying the island for the Vietnam Navy rating.*

MATADOR was developed from the 2000s, to replace the outdated system ARMBRUST the Army payroll in the Republic of Singapore. After a series of memorandum and Development Cooperation light anti-tank weapons, the Republic of Singapore Army (SAF), Department of Science and Technology with 2 Singapore military defense industry corporations large Israeli Rafael and Dynamit have a project to develop a model rocket attacks shoulder to equip Guard Forces SAF and Israel.

MATADOR line of shoulder missiles kill light tank with bore sizes up to 90mm, using two types of warheads is HEAT standard attack and Hesh. This is a collaboration product from Singapore and Israel maintained military. The prototype of the missile system MATADOR shoulder of the Federal Republic of Germany ARMBRUST but is much improved and has made a remarkable mark in the anti-tank missile systems in the world shoulder.

MATADOR was developed from the 2000s, to replace the outdated system ARMBRUST the Army payroll in the Republic of Singapore. After a series of memorandum and Development Cooperation light anti-tank weapons, the Republic of Singapore Army (SAF), Department of Science and Technology with 2 Singapore military defense industry corporations large Israeli Rafael and Dynamit have a project to develop a model rocket attacks shoulder to equip Guard Forces SAF and Israel.






In some types of anti-tank missiles and shoulder armor now, MATADOR small size, light weight yet loaded with ammunition is loaded is 8.9kg and 14.2kg while. However, not so soft that it was underestimated. MATADOR is considered nearly as strong shoulder missiles smart FMG-148 "Javelin" of the United States.

With 2 main types of warheads, MATADOR can break bunker, destroy the kind of medium tanks and tank main battle (MBT) today. In addition, it can also destroy armor and troop transport vehicles for amphibious operations against the enemy, and capable of urban warfare - one of the common characteristics of weapons to Israel increased range and power on every battlefield.

Defense capability against armored vehicles, MBT, as well as the ability to completely destroy armored vehicles carrying regular troops as the M113 or the other shielded MATADOR is rated as the best among anti-tank weapons shoulder today.

Despite intense firepower but MATADOR was safe to humans because it does not generate the fallout from the jet engines of the rocket as shoulder-fired missiles and other not affect the use of the name Fire was launched.






With the ability to use high-pressure explosive warhead, dual shot mode passive target, MATADOR can use bullets to kill Hesh urban decay shoot any wall, whether it is permanent nowhere. After penetrating the wall, bullets explode inside creating a very strong destructive power. To break the bunker type, normally, people would use explosive anti-tank warhead HEAT. When the first bullet was lodged into the wall, the sensor system on the rocket will explode and destroy targets.

One other plus points of MATADOR is that it does not need a large space for the fuel to the rocket exhaust as many different types of shoulder-fired missiles that just a narrow space, may be shielded from the walls at a distance ly 5m was able to fire attacks.

Some improved version now allows to fire missiles from any location and any public space. This is one of the brightest features of urban warfare MATADOR, making it versatile attack but still achieve very high power.

To achieve this, the MATADOR tubes using special resin called SHP, is resistant to the excess fuel ejected from the rocket launchers behind. It will keep the dust and smoke from the engine and reduces low energy from the rear, to help ensure the safety of the troops and weapons, ammunition behind. In addition, SHP classes also ensure the safety of regional anti-tank rocket launchers and not discharged materials or toxic substances in the process of firing missiles.






*MATADOR is kind of viewfinder is very precise reflex viewfinder multidimensional combination with electronic devices to increase magnification. The version used in Vietnam using the viewfinder of NVD, equipped with Picatinny slot, typically used on heavy weapons. Viewfinder has the ability to change between the 3 modes and flexible in terms of daylight, at night with infrared aiming system and ultimately aiming system with thermal imaging. Heat aiming system proved very useful in night conditions and do not have a clear vision and can hit targets very accurately.*

Used in the fighting in Gaza with Hamas forces, MATADOR has made repeated Hamas military Shedding for the HEAT rocket and Hesh when it destroyed a series of armored vehicles and fortifications in Gaza.

MATADOR family, variations MATADOR-WB is designed for specialized tasks destroyed walls, fortifications in the metropolitan area. MATADOR-AS variant is equipped with advanced warheads double-dose, high-explosive effect to destroy the fortifications and inner vitality, slow explosion effects to destroy armored vehicles.

*The technical characteristics of light anti-tank missiles are very suitable for Vietnam troops that particular type of naval deployment to protect the island or coastal areas against attack landings enemy.*

?N?i khi?p s? c?a xe t?ng? trên vai H?i quân VN - ?Noi khiep so cua xe tang? tren vai Hai quan VN - Ph? n? today

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## Soryu

Gepard 3.9, Molnya and Tarantul ....

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## EastSea



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## EastSea



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## Major Shaitan Singh

*Some special skills of Daccong.*

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## Viet

*A good brief overview of the Sino-Vietnam relationship...and a look behind the fascade.*


Vietnam: Playing with fire


_Written by David Brown 
SUNDAY, 07 JULY 2013_





_The Trung sisters ran off the Chinese. Can Vietnam do it again?_


*Facing off against China*

Follow America and save the country; follow China and save the party. This saying, heard everywhere in Vietnam, distills the geopolitical dilemma facing its ruling Communist Party. 

Forty years after the last American troops left Vietnam, the party that won independence and unified the nation has lost much of its legitimacy. No amount of harking back to the virtues of Ho Chi Minh and his comrades can restore its élan nor, it seems, root out systemic corruption. The regime's biggest liability is its failure to right a faltering economy. But public opinion is also scornful of its inability to defend Vietnam's interests against China. 

From the perspective of the man in the street in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City, Beijing has thrown off the cloak of "peaceful rise" and reverted to its historic role of regional bully. Its farcical claim to the marine and mineral resources of the entire South China Sea is only the most prominent example. China's construction of a cascade of dams on the upper Mekong in Yunnan province and support for a plan to build a further 11 dams downstream in Laos threaten to wipe out the annual flood surge that sustains the fertility of Vietnam's Mekong Delta region. 

Chinese enterprises are also pursuing Laos' mineral and lumber resources, challenging Vietnamese hegemony in its backyard. In Vietnam itself, growing investment by Chinese engineering, construction and mining firms&#8212;notably Chinalco's multi-billion dollar bauxite project in the central highlands&#8212;has drawn heavy criticism. Cheap and often shoddy Chinese goods have flooded Vietnam's markets, crushing local manufacturers.

The man in the street wants to hit back. It doesn't occur to him that Vietnam's armed forces are no match for China's or that Vietnam is highly vulnerable to economic retaliation. Western analysts typically attribute Chinese "assertiveness" to surging popular nationalism and to over-zealous security agencies, but to ordinary Vietnamese it is obvious that Chinese aggression is coordinated in Beijing. 

That is nothing new: the grand theme of the nation's history, everyone learns in school, is dogged and ultimately successful resistance against invaders. And most of the armies sweeping across Vietnam's borders for the past 2000 years have been Chinese. There is no reason why it should be different this time.

*Prickly partnership*

Vietnam and China share a 1,350-km border and much more. Both countries are Leninist states with a political culture shaped by neo-Confucian ideas of merit-based hierarchy and well-tended relationships. Their ruling Communist Parties have survived by shedding Marxist economics while nurturing a pervasive state-security apparatus. Their "socialist market economies" allow vibrant free markets to exist alongside thousands of state-owned enterprises, which dominate heavy industry. 

Both Beijing and Hanoi are tormented by the lively criticism of internet-enabled dissidents. These shared cultural and political factors underpin a web of party-to-party and state-to-state consultations aimed at sustaining cooperation between the regimes.

Nonetheless, bilateral relations have normally been prickly. China's far greater geopolitical and economic weight means its relationship with Vietnam is fundamentally unequal. When Chinese people pay attention to Vietnam at all, they often regard it as a willful province that somehow slipped loose from its moorings. 

Conversely, Vietnam's 90 million residents are always uncomfortably aware of their northern neighbors, who are 15 times more numerous and whose economy is 50 times larger. Yet the Vietnamese will not kowtow to Beijing when territorial integrity is at stake. Ho Chi Minh excepted, their greatest heroes are generals who forced dynasty after dynasty of Chinese invaders to withdraw. As recently as 1979, some 20,000 Chinese soldiers died when Deng Xiaoping sought to "teach Vietnam a lesson" for toppling Beijing's Maoist protégés in Cambodia and forging an alliance with the Soviet Union.

By the mid-1990s, China and Vietnam had slipped back into a relatively comfortable relationship. Both nations were preoccupied by internal economic reform, the Soviet Union had disintegrated, and China was advertising its "peaceful rise" to the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean), which now included Vietnam. 

Bilateral trade was expanding, there was discussion of upgrading "trade corridors" from landlocked southwest China to Vietnamese ports, and negotiations to demarcate the land border were progressing well. Even the rival claims to ownership of the reefs, rocks and shoals of the South China Sea seemed under good management, if no closer to solution. 

All that changed, however, in 2009. Whether by design or diplomatic mishap, China was no longer content to leave the overlapping claims on the shelf. In May that year, China presented a crude map at the United Nations claiming "indisputable sovereignty" over 80 percent of the South China Sea. 

Tensions escalated sharply thereafter, drawing in non-regional nations&#8212;including the United States&#8212;and challenging Asean cohesion. Vietnam and the Philippines have borne the brunt of the Chinese drive to create "facts" that, although incompatible with international law, are difficult to rebut. Nationalist passions are boiling in all three nations, threatening armed skirmishes at sea. Hanoi's policy of deferring to China is in tatters. 

Many of Vietnam's non-party elite, as well as some within the party itself, believe the solution is to seek a de facto economic and military alliance with the US. Yet senior members of the party remain highly skeptical of US intentions, viewing themselves as locked in an existential conflict with Western liberalism, capitalism and imperialism. They have yielded only grudgingly to reforms aimed at establishing the nation's global economic competitiveness and engaging the US as a counterbalance to China. 

Party stalwarts gag on American demands that Vietnam allow greater democratic freedoms, fearing that Washington's true objective is to bring down the Communist regime. For all the recent frictions, they do not believe China's leaders will betray a ruling Communist Party so like their own. 

*Still waiting for a free lunch *

In truth, China these days cares a lot less about helping its fellow Communists cling to power than it does about exploiting regional resources and extending its economic tentacles. With a sackful of export credits and eligibility for concessional loans from state-owned banks, Chinese firms have become major players in infrastructure development in Vietnam, particularly construction of thermal power plants. 


By and large the Chinese firms are not squeezing out Vietnamese contractors, instead grabbing business from Japanese, South Korean, US or European competitors by entering bottom-dollar bids. But critics accuse Chinese enterprises of employing their own countrymen and producing work of low quality, with frequent missed deadlines and cost overruns. Vietnamese security hawks further assert that dependence on Chinese contractors in strategic sectors like energy undermines national security.

Another bone of contention is Vietnam's mounting trade deficit with China, its largest trading partner, which economist Tran Van Tho calls an "industrial tsunami." Vietnam's trade with the other nine Asean countries and with Japan is roughly balanced, and it has a huge surplus with the European Union and the US. But with China it ran a US$16.4 billion deficit in 2012, giving China a bilateral trade surplus of 40 percent. 

The bulk of Chinese exports are intermediate goods for assembly in Vietnam's export processing plants: fabric, zippers, buttons, wires, circuit boards, and assorted widgets. But China also provides more expensive capital goods&#8212;machinery to equip Vietnam's factories and build infrastructure. 

A third and very visible component is consumer goods, priced to undercut domestic competitors. Vietnamese newspapers regularly feature stories alleging that China dumps dangerous or shoddy goods, and provocative moves by Beijing in the South China Sea reflexively result in calls to boycott Chinese wares. 

It wasn't meant to be this way. According to economists' predictions, Vietnam should be eating Guangdong's lunch by now. With its much lower labor costs, Vietnam was the logical destination for factories from China's export-processing center migrating to cheaper climes. The labor-intensive garment and footwear industries have long accounted for about 20 percent of Vietnam's exports; they got their start in the 1990s when China's garment and footwear exports were capped under EU and US quota schemes. 

Yet labor productivity remains low, real wages rose at 10 percent a year in 2006-11, and Vietnam has largely failed to lure manufacturers from their bases in China. As labor costs continue to rise in both China and Vietnam, factories are migrating instead to Cambodia, Bangladesh and even Myanmar. 

It is not all bad news. As the global economy slowly recovers, Vietnam's foreign-invested sector is growing once again. Rather than shifting factories from China, some multinationals and their contractors have diversified their manufacturing bases by opening additional plants in Vietnam. Anecdotal evidence suggests a pronounced trend toward higher quality investments, which can benefit from substantial tax breaks. 

Firms establishing or expanding assembly plants include household names like Canon, Samsung, Intel and IBM, Hitachi, Panasonic and Nokia. Yet nearly all the inputs to Vietnam's manufactured exports are imported, some from China. All that is added in Vietnam, typically, is labor&#8212;something China can do more efficiently and on a much larger scale. 

*Comprehensive strategic blunder
*
In 2008, capping a warmer phase in relations, Chinese party chief Hu Jintao and his Vietnamese counterpart, Nong Duc Manh, declared a bilateral "comprehensive strategic cooperative relationship." And if China is truly interested in nurturing a special relationship with Vietnam - and thereby strengthening its diplomatic muscle in Southeast Asia - Beijing is in a position to help. 

Although Vietnam's rulers admit to no anxiety over the bilateral trade imbalance, it is nevertheless a chronic political liability. China imports plenty of rubber, coal, oil, lumber and agricultural products, but is uninterested in Vietnam's industrial goods. Friendly moves to pump up industrial imports would cost China little and be very good news for Hanoi. 

Above all, a sincere proposal for joint development of mineral resources and co-management of fish stocks in the disputed area of the South China Sea could be a game-changer&#8212;both for relations with Vietnam and with Asean.

Yet the reality is that the relationship between Beijing and Hanoi has become dangerously unstable since the agreement in 2008. Chinese pressure on political and strategic issues has boxed in Vietnam's leaders, arguably threatening their survival. Beijing has bolstered its standing among Chinese nationalists by flexing its muscle in the South China Sea, while Hanoi's ineffectual attempts to fend off Chinese provocations have steadily eroded its position among nationalists at home. 

Short of armed conflict, it is hard to imagine what more China could do to hasten the downfall of its would-be friends and ideological allies in the world's only other "market socialist" regime. In all probability, this would bring in new leaders looking to cozy up to the US - an entirely self-defeating result.

More worrying, an armed conflict between is not out of the question. China has vastly more firepower than Vietnam, but Hanoi is ramping up its air and sea deterrent capabilities. If pressed against a wall, history suggests that the Vietnamese will hit back. A miscalculation by either side could result in a clash. This would be sharp and bloody, with unpredictable consequences. China can continue playing the bully - but it is playing with fire. 

_(David Brown is a retired diplomat and regular contributor to Asia Sentinel. He wrote this for the Hong Kong-based Gavekal Dragonomics' China Economic Quarterly.)
_

Asia Sentinel - Vietnam: Playing with fire

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## Viet

_Press release of the recent India-Vietnam summit_
July 11, 2013






External Affairs Minister's statement to the Media during 15th Meeting of India-Vietnam Joint Commission

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## Viet

US-VN cooperations in mine searching and people rescue

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## Viet

as per Russian shipyard Zelenodolsk, the next two Gepards will come in 2016 - 2017...hmm why so late?


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## EastSea

Viet said:


> as per Russian shipyard Zelenodolsk, the next two Gepards will come in 2016 - 2017...hmm why so late?




It's problem of money, I think so. Two new will be equipped with special facilities for sub-marine hunting, good idea.


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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> as per Russian shipyard Zelenodolsk, the next two Gepards will come in 2016 - 2017...hmm why so late?
> [/IMG]


Why? Because Viet Nam is stupid enough to consider Russia as a "friend" while Russia treats Viet Nam like a beggar whenever Viet Nam buys weapons from them. The Russian are notorious for their dishonesty when it's come to delivering warship on time. They always drag the project out while demanding more money from their customers. Even the Indian taste that bitterness, what makes you think Viet Nam is immuned from it?

Buying the first 2 Gepard is already a mistake but continue buying 2 more from the Russian is beyond stupid. Viet Nam has no one to blame for except herself. Only stupid and naive Vietnamese would consider the Russian as a "friend". Viet Nam is not a beggar, we paid a total of $800 millions including armaments for these 4 Gepards; the corrupted leaders of Viet Nam need act like Viet Nam is a customer and not a beggar infront of the Russian. As a Vietnamese nationalist, I would rather see the military spend $800 millions for Viettel R&D Institute then buying these 4 Gepard craps.


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## Rechoice

ViXuyen said:


> Why? Because Viet Nam is stupid enough to consider Russia as a "friend" while Russia treats Viet Nam like a beggar whenever Viet Nam buys weapons from them. The Russian are notorious for their dishonesty when it's come to delivering warship on time. They always drag the project out while demanding more money from their customers. Even the Indian taste that bitterness, what makes you think Viet Nam is immuned from it?
> 
> Buying the first 2 Gepard is already a mistake but continue buying 2 more from the Russian is beyond stupid. Viet Nam has no one to blame for except herself. Only stupid and naive Vietnamese would consider the Russian as a "friend". Viet Nam is not a beggar, we paid a total of $800 millions including armaments for these 4 Gepards; the corrupted leaders of Viet Nam need act like Viet Nam is a customer and not a beggar infront of the Russian. As a Vietnamese nationalist, I would rather see the military spend $800 millions for Viettel R&D Institute then buying these 4 Gepard craps.



to be cool bro. I don't think problem is so serious, when USA don't lift arm embargo against us now.


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## Soryu

ViXuyen said:


> Why? Because Viet Nam is stupid enough to consider Russia as a "friend" while Russia treats Viet Nam like a beggar whenever Viet Nam buys weapons from them. The Russian are notorious for their dishonesty when it's come to delivering warship on time. They always drag the project out while demanding more money from their customers. Even the Indian taste that bitterness, what makes you think Viet Nam is immuned from it?
> 
> *Buying the first 2 Gepard is already a mistake but continue buying 2 more from the Russian is beyond stupid. Viet Nam has no one to blame for except herself*. Only stupid and naive Vietnamese would consider the Russian as a "friend". Viet Nam is not a beggar, we paid a total of $800 millions including armaments for these 4 Gepards; the corrupted leaders of Viet Nam need act like Viet Nam is a customer and not a beggar infront of the Russian. As a Vietnamese nationalist,_* I would rather see the military spend $800 millions for Viettel R&D Institute then buying these 4 Gepard craps*_.



I think you misunderstand in here.

First, look at Submarine, fighter, and Air-defense deals. *The keel of fisrt Sub laid down in 2010, and we will receive two Subs in end of 2013. And in 2013, they laid down the keel of 6th Submarine for Vietnam* . Is it slow or late!?

Second, look at Russian Navy and ship-building industry. They have delay Admiral Gorshkov-class (22350 project), a 4000 tons frigate for so long, they have to buy Mistral class from France, but they also produce new weapon like Borei class Submarine, S-400, S-500 AAW system, Sukoi T-50 Gen 5 fighter....

So, it's clear, their surface-combatant ship-bulding section has problem. Because after SU collapsed, there was no big deal or required about surface-combatant ship for Russian Navy. It's so clear, in their condition, they must protect their land before strong enough to expansive in open sea. So, they were lagged behind in this section. I think this is main reason.

Third, Viettel R&D Institute is a part of Viettel corporation, a Government's company, so their investments also came from Government.


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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Why? Because Viet Nam is stupid enough to consider Russia as a "friend" while Russia treats Viet Nam like a beggar whenever Viet Nam buys weapons from them...


keep a cool head bro, I think one reason is we lack of money (as usual), the other is lack of long term thinking.


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## Soryu

The last plane (8983) of total 3 CASA C212-400 for Vietnam Marine Police came Gia Lam Air-base in this morning, 16-07-2013.

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## Viet

I think Vietnam Navy needs more toys urgently in the next 5 years at sea: 6 more attack submarines, 4 more frigates, and last but not least 4 destroyers. Additional $5 bn should be mobilised for this.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> I think Vietnam Navy needs more toys urgently in the next 5 years at sea: 6 more attack submarines, 4 more frigates, and last but not least 4 destroyers. *Additional $5 bn should be mobilised for this.*



I think 5 billion US dollar only enough to bough 4 to five modern Fregate like De Zeven Provincien Class, including their hardware and logistic supports. If thats your wish list, at least you must prepare some 10 to 11 billion US dollar IMHO.

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## cnleio

madokafc said:


> I think 5 billion US dollar only enough to bough 4 to five modern Fregate like De Zeven Provincien Class, including their hardware and logistic supports. If thats your wish list, at least you must prepare some 10 to 11 billion US dollar IMHO.


Agree, 5 billion U.S dollar at most for 5x modern Frigates and logistic supports. 

Today any phased array radar air-defense DDG at least each cost 1-1.5billion U.S dollar (for example 1996 China bought 4x Sovremenny class DDG from Russia,of course today not advanced each cost 0.7 U.S dollar. China 052C DDG 0.9billion and 052D over 1 billion U.S dollar, West air-defense DDGs higher price). They need prepare another 5billion U.S dollar to at most purchase 4x modern destroyers. Last time Vietnam signed with Russia 2.1billion U.S dollar to purchase 6x Kilo submarines.

So i think today the reasonable price for 6 attack submarines + 4x more frigate + 4x destroyers = 12 to 13billion U.S dollar

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## hurt

Viet said:


> I think Vietnam Navy needs more toys urgently in the next 5 years at sea: 6 more attack submarines, 4 more frigates, and last but not least 4 destroyers. Additional $5 bn should be mobilised for this.


6 attack submarines -->$3 bn&#65288;only kilo&#65292;214 and Scorpène-class more expensive &#65289;
4 frigates -->$2 bn&#65288;3000t,4000t need $3 bn&#65289;
4 destroyers -->$4 bn&#65288;6000t)
$5 bn


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## Viet

hurt said:


> 6 attack submarines -->$3 bn&#65288;only kilo&#65292;214 and Scorpène-class more expensive &#65289;
> 4 frigates -->$2 bn&#65288;3000t,4000t need $3 bn&#65289;
> 4 destroyers -->$4 bn&#65288;6000t)
> $5 bn


what I am thinking of is Russia to transfer shipbuilding technology to Vietnam, and we build naval vessels by ourselves. I remember that they promised to do that at the last Russia-Vietnam summit. Otherwise $5bn is not enough.

Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | Russia seeks closer naval ties with Vietnam





_Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu (2nd, L) and his Vietnamese counterpart Phung Quang Thanh after talks at the Ministry of Defense in Hanoi on March 5 2013_

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## hurt

Viet said:


> what I am thinking of is Russia to transfer shipbuilding technology to Vietnam, and we build naval vessels by ourselves. I remember that they promised to do that at the last Russia-Vietnam summit. Otherwise $5bn is not enough.
> 
> Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | Russia seeks closer naval ties with Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu (2nd, L) and his Vietnamese counterpart Phung Quang Thanh after talks at the Ministry of Defense in Hanoi on March 5 2013_


next 5 years&#12288;Vietnamese build submarines ,frigates and destroyers 
They are not missile boat.


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## Viet

hurt said:


> next 5 years&#12288;Vietnamese build submarines ,frigates and destroyers
> They are not missile boat.


I know that is too ambitious. Can China help? We are friends 





_Vietnamese General Vinh visits PLA's Peacekeeping Centre in Beijing, June 5th 2013 _

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## Nike

Viet said:


> what I am thinking of is Russia to transfer shipbuilding technology to Vietnam, and we build naval vessels by ourselves. I remember that they promised to do that at the last Russia-Vietnam summit. Otherwise $5bn is not enough.
> 
> Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | Russia seeks closer naval ties with Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu (2nd, L) and his Vietnamese counterpart Phung Quang Thanh after talks at the Ministry of Defense in Hanoi on March 5 2013_



even your government must taking inflation rates seriously because Naval ship programs is multi years program which cannot be completed just in 4 to 7 years, to build a modern ship from scratch including building Naval Shipyard for local production will add enormous additional cost and times besides an already enormous technological and manpower you need to run those naval shipyard. And then your government must thinking to keeps the production line stay alive, if its not your Naval shipyard will became burden for your government and your skilled workers just will run away because they had no job to do. PT PAL from Indonesia had experienced that, and we had lost almost 4000 skilled workers because we cannot maintain the production line keep running during 98 Asian Monetary Crisis.

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> ...


I got it. It makes everything much easier if we can print Dollars


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## Nike

Viet said:


> I got it. It makes everything much easier if we can print Dollars



Only determination, commitment, good planning, good friend and allies and surely the availability a lot of money can overcame all obstacle while building a decent Naval Forces, and i think your gov. had the gut and all of what i mention above, albeit the issue about money (budgetary) is very crucial for your Country.

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## Tanja

It is very interesting and inspiring reading through and seeing photos here, I thought Vietnam is still using bad equipment and old tanks and military stuffs remaining after the US invasion time . Now I know that I was wrong

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## hurt

Viet said:


> I know that is too ambitious. Can China help? We are friends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vietnamese General Vinh visits PLA's Peacekeeping Centre in Beijing, June 5th 2013 _



If you said it before 1977,we must help you.but now


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## Nike

hurt said:


> If you said it before 1977,we must help you.but now



everything have a start and ends right? Maybe this will be a start for more warm and welcoming relationship between China and Vietnam


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## hurt

madokafc said:


> everything have a start and ends right? Maybe this will be a start for more warm and welcoming relationship between China and Vietnam



No way.Plz know why they want those warships


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## EastSea

hurt said:


> If you said it before 1977,we must help you.but now



From 1972 China had already her new master, who is our enemy.

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## hurt

EastSea said:


> From 1972 China had already her new master, who is our enemy.



PLz dont forget The Sino-Soviet border conflict in 1969. 
you choose the side and need pay for it


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## EastSea

hurt said:


> PLz dont forget The Sino-Soviet border conflict in 1969.
> you choose the side and need pay for it



After such backstabber on Soviet, Uncle Sam let China joined in UN. It's policy of China, betrayed whom who helped you won on KMT.

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## hurt

EastSea said:


> After such backstabber on Soviet, Uncle Sam let China joined in UN. It's policy of China, betrayed whom who helped you won on KMT.



Not by Soviet



EastSea said:


> After such backstabber on Soviet, Uncle Sam let China joined in UN. It's policy of China, betrayed whom who helped you won on KMT.



Soviet only help china to fight with japan,but US do same thing.


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## EastSea

hurt said:


> Not by Soviet



Without weapons of Red Army was handed to you after liberation of Manchuria 1945. Picture of Zheng Kaishek is on top of Tian Anmen now.

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## hurt

EastSea said:


> Without weapons of Red Army was handed to you after liberation of Manchuria 1945. Picture of Zheng Kaishek is on top of Tian Anmen now.



Do you forget your weapons and food from china? We send our weapons and foodto you ,Soviet only send japanese weapons to us.only as garbage


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## EastSea

hurt said:


> Do you forget your weapons and food from china? We send our weapons and foodto you ,Soviet only send japanese weapons to us.only as garbage



Soviets helped both China and Vietnam, China attacked Soviet Union to change your master to USA. China reduced help from 1968 after Tet Offensive and stopped after 1972 when us army attacked brutally on both North and South Vietnam . Traitor don' have right to calculation 



Only Soviet and socialist countries helped us to end of Vietnam war 1975.

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## hurt

EastSea said:


> Soviets helped both China and Vietnam, China attacked Soviet Union to change your master to USA. China reduced help from 1968 after Tet Offensive and stopped after 1972 when us army attacked brutally on both North and South Vietnam . Traitor don' have right to calculation
> 
> 
> 
> Only Soviet and socialist countries helped us to end of Vietnam war 1975.



ok,you know that we never help you again is enough


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## EastSea

hurt said:


> ok,you know that we never help you again is enough



Now China threat us and robbed our Islands. It's true face of China.


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## cnleio

In Asia why not Japan ? Did Vietnam consider to buy ships from Japan or import shipbuilding technology from Japanese, yep we knew Japan also own advanced shipbuilding technology and their domestic AIP submarine good in Asia.

I knew Japanese still saving many retired warships in their military ports, and Japan has a big second-hand warship storage.


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## EastSea

self deleted


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> In Asia why not *Japan *? Did Vietnam consider to buy ships from Japan or import shipbuilding technology from Japanese, yep we knew Japan also own advanced shipbuilding technology and their domestic AIP submarine good in Asia.
> 
> I knew Japanese still saving many retired warships in their military ports, and Japan has a big second-hand warship storage.


With some few exceptions, the current laws of Japan forbid exporting weapons to overseas. Even the scope of Japanese army is very limitted, strickly in terms of budgets and defence.

If Mr Abe wins the upcoming upper house election, taking place on next Sunday, he is expected to change the post war constitutions. That would allow him more freedoms on foreign policy, including selling warships to Vietnam. I know Japan builds some good subs and destroyers, so I wish Mr Abe good luck as he is a friend of Vietnam.



madokafc said:


> everything have a start and ends right? Maybe this will be a start for more warm and welcoming relationship between China and Vietnam


Many Chinese dream day and night of how to take back Vietnam, integrating into the Chinese Empire...I am afraid it is hopeless, we see no end of conflicts in sight.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> I think Vietnam Navy needs more toys urgently in the next 5 years at sea: 6 more attack submarines, 4 more frigates, and last but not least 4 destroyers. Additional $5 bn should be mobilised for this.


That's too much for Navy, bro. This plan will dry out money for both army and Airforce budget. In the end 2016, we just receive the last Sub, and get more air defense equipments, may be more 2 frigate and patrol boats, but not destroyers.

And we have most modern Submarine in SEA now, Singapore has 6 Sub, too. But 4 of them are old now. I think we can get new Sub, after 2018 or 2020. 


cnleio said:


> Agree, 5 billion U.S dollar at most for 5x modern Frigates and logistic supports.
> 
> Today any phased array radar air-defense DDG at least each cost 1-1.5billion U.S dollar (for example 1996 China bought 4x Sovremenny class DDG from Russia,of course today not advanced each cost 0.7 U.S dollar. China 052C DDG 0.9billion and 052D over 1 billion U.S dollar, West air-defense DDGs higher price). They need prepare another 5billion U.S dollar to at most purchase 4x modern destroyers. Last time Vietnam signed with Russia 2.1billion U.S dollar to purchase 6x Kilo submarines.
> 
> So i think today the reasonable price for 6 attack submarines + 4x more frigate + 4x destroyers = 12 to 13billion U.S dollar


Hmm, if we come to Russian, the price will be easier for our Budget.
And I saw in some source, FREMM, De Zeven Provinciën-class frigate or F-124 class has price from 600 to 800 millions $ (lower cost when compare to USA and China ships cost). So, there is still has good stuff for us. 


Viet said:


> what I am thinking of is Russia to transfer shipbuilding technology to Vietnam, and we build naval vessels by ourselves. I remember that they promised to do that at the last Russia-Vietnam summit. Otherwise $5bn is not enough.
> 
> Vietnam latest news - Thanh Nien Daily | Russia seeks closer naval ties with Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu (2nd, L) and his Vietnamese counterpart Phung Quang Thanh after talks at the Ministry of Defense in Hanoi on March 5 2013_


Well, it's not so fast. Until now, no news for manufacturer plant for Yakhont missile or X-35, same case with Israel support plant. 


Viet said:


> I know that is too ambitious. Can China help? We are friends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vietnamese General Vinh visits PLA's Peacekeeping Centre in Beijing, June 5th 2013 _


No need to care about him, he just come for troll .... 


Tanja said:


> It is very interesting and inspiring reading through and seeing photos here, I thought Vietnam is still using bad equipment and old tanks and military stuffs remaining after the US invasion time . Now I know that I was wrong


The world forward, so we must come with it. 


madokafc said:


> everything have a start and ends right? Maybe this will be a start for more warm and welcoming relationship between China and Vietnam


We were still doing that.


cnleio said:


> In Asia why not Japan ? Did Vietnam consider to buy ships from Japan or import shipbuilding technology from Japanese, yep we knew Japan also own advanced shipbuilding technology and their domestic AIP submarine good in Asia.
> 
> I knew Japanese still saving many retired warships in their military ports, and Japan has a big second-hand warship storage.


Their political and laws are issues.


Viet said:


> With some few exceptions, the current laws of Japan forbid exporting weapons to overseas. Even the scope of Japanese army is very limitted, strickly in terms of budgets and defence.
> 
> If Mr Abe wins the upcoming upper house election, taking place on next Sunday, he is expected to change the post war constitutions. That would allow him more freedoms on foreign policy, including selling warships to Vietnam. I know Japan builds some good subs and destroyers, so I wish Mr Abe good luck as he is a friend of Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Many Chinese dream day and night of how to take back Vietnam, integrating into the Chinese Empire...I am afraid it is hopeless, we see no end of conflicts in sight.


We can expect some Soryu come with VPN if The Aussie pick it and the price become more easy for us.

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## visom

hurt said:


> No way.Plz know why they want those warships



Always talking about boats aren't you, Boat Boy?


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> With some few exceptions, the current laws of Japan forbid exporting weapons to overseas. Even the scope of Japanese army is very limitted, strickly in terms of budgets and defence.
> 
> If Mr Abe wins the upcoming upper house election, taking place on next Sunday, he is expected to change the post war constitutions. That would allow him more freedoms on foreign policy, including selling warships to Vietnam. I know Japan builds some good subs and destroyers, so I wish Mr Abe good luck as he is a friend of Vietnam.



Also wish Mr Abe would change the post war constitutions, then Chinese, Korean, Russian will stay together as alliances to face region threat from Japan islands. At least in North-East Asia nobody has good feelings with Japan forces.


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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Hmm, if we come to Russian, the price will be easier for our Budget.


If Russian could cost down, why Vietnam bought 6x kilo(type636) still need 2.1billion U.S dollar(other news said 3.2billion)? In the past, 2005 China just spent 1.8billion bought 8x kilo(type636) submarines from Russia. (before 2005 China owned 2x type636 and 2x type877 kilo submarines).




Soryu said:


> And I saw in some source, FREMM, De Zeven Provinciën-class frigate or F-124 class has price from 600 to 800 millions $ (lower cost when compare to USA and China ships cost). So, there is still has good stuff for us.


Prepare another 100 million $ to purchase additional anti-aircraft missiles and advanced anti-ship missiles for warships, if u wanna using Russian missiles also need money to update electronic control system, fire control system and radar system.

China 054A class 4,000ton high-performance frigate just cost 200million $. 
Vietnam imported Russian Gepard-3.9(type11611E) light frigate cost 150million $, a 2,100ton warship without any anti-aircraft missiles. (Better to choose Tiger(type20380) frigate, Indonesia
Navy will import 8x type20380)


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> If *Russian *could cost down, why Vietnam bought 6x kilo(type636) still need 2.1billion U.S dollar(other news said *3.2billion*)? In the past, 2005 China just spent 1.8billion bought 8x kilo(type636) submarines from Russia. (before 2005 China owned 2x type636 and 2x type877 kilo submarines).


nobody knows exactly how much Vietnam pays, but the packet consists of 6 attack subs including crew training, weapons, and submarine base (Cam Ranh). So $3.2billion may be a more realistic figure.


cnleio said:


> Prepare another *100 million $* to purchase additional anti-aircraft missiles and advanced anti-ship missiles for warships, if u wanna using Russian missiles also need money to update electronic control system, fire control system and radar system.


there are rumors that Vietnam plans to increase annual defence budget to $10 bn. So that would not be a problem to finance.


cnleio said:


> *China *054A class 4,000ton high-performance frigate just cost 200million $.


You does not sell weapons to Vietnam.


cnleio said:


> Vietnam imported Russian Gepard-3.9(type11611E) light frigate cost 150million $, a 2,100ton warship without any anti-aircraft missiles. (Better to choose Tiger(type20380) frigate, *Indonesia*
> Navy will import 8x type20380)


I think if other sources, Vietnam would buy ships from Japan or Korea.

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## hurt

Viet said:


> With some few exceptions, the current laws of Japan forbid exporting weapons to overseas. Even the scope of Japanese army is very limitted, strickly in terms of budgets and defence.
> 
> If Mr Abe wins the upcoming upper house election, taking place on next Sunday, he is expected to change the post war constitutions. That would allow him more freedoms on foreign policy, including selling warships to Vietnam. I know Japan builds some good subs and destroyers, so I wish Mr Abe good luck as he is a friend of Vietnam.


a friend of VietnamHe just wanted to find a target to attract firepower
you can not afford Japanese warships,and they cant provide air defense missile and anti-ship missile.


Viet said:


> Many Chinese dream day and night of how to take back Vietnam, integrating into the Chinese Empire...I am afraid it is hopeless, we see no end of conflicts in sight.


we dont care about Vietnam,You're just a burden.we only need get back my south sea.


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## hurt

visom said:


> Always talking about boats aren't you, Boat Boy?


maybe your navy need boats


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## Soryu

cnleio said:


> If Russian could cost down, why Vietnam bought 6x kilo(type636) still need 2.1billion U.S dollar(other news said 3.2billion)? In the past, 2005 China just spent 1.8billion bought 8x kilo(type636) submarines from Russia. (before 2005 China owned 2x type636 and 2x type877 kilo submarines).
> 
> 
> 
> Prepare another 100 million $ to purchase additional anti-aircraft missiles and advanced anti-ship missiles for warships, if u wanna using Russian missiles also need money to update electronic control system, fire control system and radar system.
> 
> China 054A class 4,000ton high-performance frigate just cost 200million $.
> Vietnam imported Russian Gepard-3.9(type11611E) light frigate cost 150million $, a 2,100ton warship without any anti-aircraft missiles. (Better to choose Tiger(type20380) frigate, Indonesia
> Navy will import 8x type20380)


Official anwser from VPA General said 6 Kilo submarine cost ~ 1.8 billion dollars. Others supply and stuff can get more money up to 3.2 billion dollars include training equipment, weapon, Submarine base ....
And you said that, it's in past, not recent time. 

054A maybe good stuff, but we have example from Thailand Navy. Even if PRC want sell it to us, we also don't know what's "extra gift" give by PRC on the ship. And many PRC weapon systems came from Russian, so ... 

Gepard 3.9 has Palma system for CIWS defense. Tiger class (20380) was not mature enough in time, even Russian crew ship also complain about life support system in 20380 project. And now, they go for 20385 project for better design.
So we must wait for more if we want it. But we can't, and you know why.


----------



## Viet

Zhang Yang meets with Vietnamese deputy defense minister

(China Military Online)
09:03, July 18, 2013 







BEIJING, July 17 (ChinaMil) -- Zhang Yang, member of the Central Military Commission (CMC) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) and director of the General Political Department (GPD) of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), met with Nguyen Kim Ton, the visiting deputy defense minister of Vietnam, and his party on July 16, 2013 in Beijing.

Zhang Yang said that China and Vietnam are neighbors with common mountain ranges and waterways, cultural affinity, the same ideals and interrelated fate, and the bilateral friendship has been deeply rooted in the hearts of their people. 

In recent years, the Chinese and Vietnamese militaries have carried out good cooperation in such fields as high-level reciprocal visits, personnel training, border and coastal defense contacts, and experience sharing in army building and governing. Under the current situation, the two sides are supposed to further strengthen exchanges and cooperation and learn useful experience from each other, so as to strive to constantly promote the development of relations between the two militaries.

Nguyen Kim Ton said that the Vietnamese is willing to make joint efforts with the Chinese side to push forward sustainable and stable development of the bilateral friendly and cooperative relations.

Du Jincai, deputy director of the GPD of the PLA, was present at the meeting.


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## Viet

hurt said:


> a friend of VietnamHe just wanted to find a target to attract firepower
> you can not afford Japanese warships,and they cant provide air defense missile and anti-ship missile.


let wait and see what comes if Mr Abe wins the upcoming election, he has some nice news for you.


hurt said:


> we dont care about Vietnam,You're just a burden.we only need get back my south sea.


you troll too much, dude...you can begin to claim my toilet as yours since ancient times. 

Anyway I wonder when our politicians or military generals visit China, your people always talk of common mountains, cultures, ideals and fate, and friendship...such stuffs? if you don´t care about us.


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## hurt

Viet said:


> let wait and see what comes if Mr Abe wins the upcoming election, he has some nice news for you.


I am waiting ,but i think its not a good news for you.



Viet said:


> Anyway I wonder when our politicians or military generals visit China, your people always talk of common mountains, cultures, ideals and fate, and friendship...such stuffs? if you don´t care about us.


Kid,Do you know whats Diplomatic language?


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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> 054A maybe good stuff, but we have example from Thailand Navy. Even if PRC want sell it to us, we also don't know what's "extra gift" give by PRC on the ship. And many PRC weapon systems came from Russian, so ...



I don't know where u get information the China weapon system came from Russian ? If they from Russian, Why Russia Navy warships not install any VLS anti-aircraft missile like HHQ-16 and HHQ-9 in China 054A and 052C class&#65311; Why Russia Navy warships not install any close defense missile like HHQ-10 RAM in China 056 class and CV16 A.C ? Our CIWS also looks completely difference. Our domestic C-802,C-803, YJ-62 etc anti-ship missile all different. Okay even Navy J-15 fighter looks like Su-33 but Russian can't resume their own Su-33 production line and prepare for Mig-29k with Indian.

And China did not export 1 warship to Thailand, from 1990s to 2005 we exported 3 kinds of many warships to Thailand Royal Navy. Even if Thailand won't select China warships, it just means they have higher requirement and enough fund to purchase other advnaced warship from foreign country, the weapon market is the business and customer could choose other better weapons.


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## Soryu

cnleio said:


> I don't know where u get information the China weapon system came from Russian ? If they from Russian, Why Russia Navy warships not install any VLS anti-aircraft missile like HHQ-16 and HHQ-9 in China 054A and 052C class&#65311; Why Russia Navy warships not install any close defense missile like HHQ-10 RAM in China 056 class and CV16 A.C ? Our CIWS also looks completely difference. Our domestic C-802,C-803, YJ-62 etc anti-ship missile all different. Okay even Navy J-15 fighter looks like Su-33 but Russian can't resume their own Su-33 production line and prepare for Mig-29k with Indian.
> 
> And China did not export 1 warship to Thailand, from 1990s to 2005 we exported 3 kinds of many warships to Thailand Royal Navy. Even if Thailand won't select China warships, it just means they have higher requirement and enough fund to purchase other advnaced warship from foreign country, the weapon market is the business and customer could choose other better weapons.



I read in many source said "many" (not all) PRC system design by some Russian Institute like radar, VLS, missile HHQ-16 on 054A, and some more examples. Like everyone know, China got many good thing from Russsia, it's true.

Hm, I don't know detail of Thailand - China deal in 1990 to 2005, just got news about Thai's navy complaim and want upgrade 053H3 ship by Euro company, not PRC pack.


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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> I read in many source said "many" (not all) PRC system design by some Russian Institute like radar, VLS, missile HHQ-16 on 054A, and some more examples. Like everyone know, China got many good thing from Russsia, it's true.
> Hm, I don't know detail of Thailand - China deal in 1990 to 2005, just got news about Thai's navy complaim and want upgrade 053H3 ship by Euro company, not PRC pack.


Okay, 053H3 class is a old fashion shipbody even PLAN didn't consider 053 and 053H3 as main warship. It's obviously 053H3's weapons and radar system cheaper and lower than 054,052 class.
And Thailand bought these 053H3 nearly twenty years ago, what u can hope ? Hope it can as powerful as today 2010 latest warship ? Ironically, they need to be updated or to buy latest warship.

@Soryu, i need to correct here. China HHQ-16 VLS is the hot-launched VLS system,it's working principle like American MK-41 VLS. We knew currently cold-launched VLS still be installed on Russia warships like SA-N-6C. I didn't see new Russia warship using hot-launched VLS yet, can u remind me ? Yep, i believe Russian finally develop domestic hot-launched VLS on their warship, but Chinese developed HHQ-16 much earlier than them.

MK-41 hot launch:





HHQ-16 hot launch:






HHQ-9 like SA-N-6C, it's cold launch:






Russia SA-N-6C cold launch (PLAN 051C DDG using SA-N-6C):







&#8593; It's very very clear ~!


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## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Okay, 053H3 class is a old fashion shipbody even PLAN didn't consider 053 and 053H3 as main warship. It's obviously 053H3's weapons and radar system cheaper and lower than 054,052 class.
> And Thailand bought these 053H3 nearly twenty years ago, what u can hope ? Hope it can as powerful as today 2010 latest warship ? Ironically, they need to be updated or to buy latest warship.
> 
> @Soryu, i need to correct here. China HHQ-16 VLS is the hot-launched VLS system,it's working principle like American MK-41 VLS. We knew currently cold-launched VLS still be installed on Russia warships like SA-N-6C. I didn't see new Russia warship using hot-launched VLS yet, can u remind me ? Yep, i believe Russian finally install domestic hot-launched VLS on their warship, but Chinese developed HHQ-16 much earlier than them.


Well, I don't know detail Thai's navy deal with SAAB, you can right on 053H3 case. But Chile and Peru can become another example about immature system from China.

Right, but their new VLS like Redut and USUK are hot launch system (in 20380 and 20385 project). 
In case, maybe Russia Institute design VLS system for China HHQ-16, get money and experience for their own system. Same case was happened with South Korean MR-SAM and new system presented by Russian in recent days.

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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Well, I don't know detail Thai's navy deal with SAAB, you can right on 053H3 case. But Chile and Peru can become another example about immature system from China.
> 
> Right, but their new VLS like Redut and USUK are hot launch system (in 20380 and 20385 project).
> In case, maybe Russia Institute design VLS system for China HHQ-16, get money and experience for their own system. Same case was happened with South Korean MR-SAM and new system presented by Russian in recent days.


Well, it maybe RIGHT or WRONG coz no any official confirmed just a rumor ^_^. Anyway if we refer by equipment time the China hot-launch VLS system served in Navy really earlier than Russia. Russian still developing their own hot-launch VLS right now.

Chinese didn't stop, 2013 we saw the pix of new 052D class DDG, Chinese had developed a new universal hot-launch VLS system, that new VLS could launch anti-aircraft missile and anti-ship missile together, all China missiles in one VLS unite.


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## indian_foxhound

Before the J-20, China's first stealth fighter, enters service with the PLA Air Force, Vietnam will purchase the Vostok E 2-Dimensional Metric Band Surveillance Radar from Belarus with the ability to detect and attack stealth aircraft, reports the Military Analysis based in Moscow.

Developed by KB Radar based in Belarus, the Vostok E VHF band radar is a replacement to the P-18 radar system during the Soviet era. KB Radar claims the Vostok E radar is able to detect stealth fighters such as the US F-117A Nighthawk from 74 kilometers nautical miles away in a jammed environment. In an unjammed environment, the distance can be increased to 350 kilometers. 

With a unique wideband "Kharchenko" square ring element radiator arranged in a diamond lattice pattern, the Vostok E radar is designed to improve its frequency agility against earlier generation stealth fighters. Even when facing more advanced stealth aircraft like the F-22, the Vostok E can detect targets from 57 kilometers away and shoot them down with the S-300 surface-to-air missile. It is a new design to challenge the aerial domination of American stealth aircraft.

However, Vietnam will probably become the first nation to use the radar system in an asymmetric warfare strategy against stealth fighters from China including the J-20 and J-31 over the disputed South China Sea. Military Analysis said Belarus has agreed to sell about 20 Vostok E radar systems to Vietnam, as well as send advisers to train Vietnamese operators to use the hardware.

 http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20130717000133&cid=1101

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## NewCastle2012

Does this radar system come with missile? If not, how could it attack a stealth plane?


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## GR!FF!N

China's Stealth fighter's deployment is still few years away..but Vietnam is already being prepared to counter that???thats too FAST.... 

by the way,a good link on this radar...

Russian / PLA Low Band Surveillance Radar Systems (Counter Low Observable Technology Radars)

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## Skull and Bones

NewCastle2012 said:


> Does this radar system come with missile? If not, how could it attack a stealth plane?



Read the article again, it's mentioned that the radar can be coupled with S-300 long range SAM systems.

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## Okemos

Cool, lets trash Vietnam economy with arms race. 

More seriously, maybe I am a pacifist, but why do smaller countries spend so much money on military spending? I mean isn't better to use that amount of money in education etc than on weapons that are being updated constantly. In today's world, I doubt any full-fledged war will ever be fought.


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## walle990

57 km is too short, 5th gen fighters can engage those anti-air installation from much further away.


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## jhungary

indian_foxhound said:


> Before the J-20, China's first stealth fighter, enters service with the PLA Air Force, Vietnam will purchase the Vostok E 2-Dimensional Metric Band Surveillance Radar from Belarus with the ability to detect and attack stealth aircraft, reports the Military Analysis based in Moscow.
> 
> Developed by KB Radar based in Belarus, the Vostok E VHF band radar is a replacement to the P-18 radar system during the Soviet era. KB Radar claims the Vostok E radar is able to detect stealth fighters such as the US F-117A Nighthawk from *74 kilometers nautical miles *away in a jammed environment. In an unjammed environment, the distance can be increased to 350 kilometers.
> 
> With a unique wideband "Kharchenko" square ring element radiator arranged in a diamond lattice pattern, the Vostok E radar is designed to improve its frequency agility against earlier generation stealth fighters. Even when facing more advanced stealth aircraft like the F-22, the Vostok E can detect targets from 57 kilometers away and shoot them down with the S-300 surface-to-air missile. It is a new design to challenge the aerial domination of American stealth aircraft.
> 
> However, Vietnam will probably become the first nation to use the radar system in an asymmetric warfare strategy against stealth fighters from China including the J-20 and J-31 over the disputed South China Sea. Military Analysis said Belarus has agreed to sell about 20 Vostok E radar systems to Vietnam, as well as send advisers to train Vietnamese operators to use the hardware.
> 
> Vietnam prepares countermeasures against China's stealth fighters



quite badly written article, what is 74 kilometres nautical miles away. It could either be 74 Kilometers or 74 Nautical Miles......

Hence I really doubt the authenticity of this article.


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## cnleio

YJ-91 HARM (base KH-31P) fire range over 150km


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## Rechoice



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## Soryu

cnleio said:


> Well, it maybe RIGHT or WRONG coz no any official confirmed just a rumor ^_^. Anyway if we refer by equipment time the China hot-launch VLS system served in Navy really earlier than Russia. Russian still developing their own hot-launch VLS right now.
> 
> Chinese didn't stop, 2013 we saw the pix of new 052D class DDG, Chinese had developed a new universal hot-launch VLS system, that new VLS could launch anti-aircraft missile and anti-ship missile together, all China missiles in one VLS unite.


If that's true, it's good advance for PRC, when Russian got UKSK (I mistake in early post with USUK ).
Is it can operate with land attack missile as Mk. 41 !?

--------------------------

DHC-6's crew member.

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## Rechoice

Skull and Bones said:


> Read the article again, it's mentioned that the radar can be coupled with S-300 long range SAM systems.

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## Soryu

Okemos said:


> Cool, lets trash Vietnam economy with arms race.
> 
> More seriously, maybe I am a pacifist, but why do smaller countries spend so much money on military spending? I mean isn't better to use that amount of money in education etc than on weapons that are being updated constantly. In today's world, I doubt any full-fledged war will ever be fought.



Should I remind you about Lybia or Iraq !? And look at Syria to know why did NATO not come to gang-up.

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## visom

Okemos said:


> Cool, lets trash Vietnam economy with arms race.
> 
> More seriously, maybe I am a pacifist, but why do smaller countries spend so much money on military spending? I mean isn't better to use that amount of money in education etc than on weapons that are being updated constantly. In today's world, I doubt any full-fledged war will ever be fought.



I fully agree with you when it comes to investing money into education since its never obsolete and grows in value daily, but when a smaller country is being threatened, they have to spend some money on military equipments even if they know they can't win a full war. The point is to make war too expensive for larger countries to maintain or declare so they can hold their independence. I still think Vietnam can afford this since our economy is still growing quickly despite the spendings.

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## BDforever

Bangladesh and Belarus are now defence partners... hope BD will go for that  Bangladesh is going to buy HQ-9 which is based on S-300, so the radar can be used for HQ-9


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## BDforever

jhungary said:


> quite badly written article, what is 74 kilometres nautical miles away. It could either be 74 Kilometers or 74 Nautical Miles......
> 
> Hence I really doubt the authenticity of this article.


74 kilometers (40 nauticalmiles)


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## jhungary

BDforever said:


> 74 kilometers (40 nauticalmiles)



lol I know 74 Km is 40 nautical mile, the fact that the editor let the mistake rolled on the print without catching it (Missing "40") does not seems like a professional publishing to me. More like a blog or something like that without proof read or spell check......Not really sure if that article even have an editor to begin with too 

That's what wrinkle my brain.......

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## Rechoice

visom said:


> I fully agree with you when it comes to investing money into education since its never obsolete and grows in value daily, but when a smaller country is being threatened, they have to spend some money on military equipments even if they know they can't win a full war. The point is to make war too expensive for larger countries to maintain or declare so they can hold their independence. I still think Vietnam can afford this since our economy is still growing quickly despite the spendings.



You can take relax in US.
We have to do what we think its's necessary for defend sovereignty of country.


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## BDforever

FD-2000 - First revealed in the 8th Zhuhai Airshow, the export version of HQ-9 with max range of 125km, providing extra anti-stealth capability by incorporating YLC-20 passive sensor as an option. Oops BD is going for better one


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## ViXuyen

Okemos said:


> Cool, lets trash Vietnam economy with arms race.
> 
> More seriously, maybe I am a pacifist, but why do smaller countries spend so much money on military spending? I mean isn't better to use that amount of money in education etc than on weapons that are being updated constantly. In today's world, I doubt any full-fledged war will ever be fought.


Viet Nam only spends on average $1 billion of foriegn currency for weapon purchase per year

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## visom

ViXuyen said:


> Viet Nam only spends on average $1 billion of foriegn currency for weapon purchase per year



You can do quite alot with $1billion in vietnam


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## Nike

cnleio said:


> Okay, 053H3 class is a old fashion shipbody even PLAN didn't consider 053 and 053H3 as main warship. It's obviously 053H3's weapons and radar system cheaper and lower than 054,052 class.
> And Thailand bought these 053H3 nearly twenty years ago, what u can hope ? Hope it can as powerful as today 2010 latest warship ? Ironically, they need to be updated or to buy latest warship.
> 
> @Soryu, i need to correct here. China HHQ-16 VLS is the hot-launched VLS system,it's working principle like American MK-41 VLS. We knew currently cold-launched VLS still be installed on Russia warships like SA-N-6C. I didn't see new Russia warship using hot-launched VLS yet, can u remind me ? Yep, i believe Russian finally develop domestic hot-launched VLS on their warship, but Chinese developed HHQ-16 much earlier than them.
> 
> MK-41 hot launch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HHQ-16 hot launch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HHQ-9 like SA-N-6C, it's cold launch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia SA-N-6C cold launch (PLAN 051C DDG using SA-N-6C):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &#8593; It's very very clear ~!



as far as i know China developing her Naval abilities with potential helps from several western countries especially France. U can see why China had Crotale, Exocet like missile, radar and CMS, and even her Naval ASW helo and even their modern Fregate and destroyer design is very much had been influenced by western Technology not the Russian ones . CMIIW.

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## Okemos

ViXuyen said:


> Viet Nam only spends on average $1 billion of foriegn currency for weapon purchase per year



If I were leader of Vietnam, I would adopt a docile foreign policy and cuddle with all major powers by dancing with diplomacy, or stay neutral just like Thailand and Switzerland, then focus on economic and social development. Why even waste a penny? A billion a year is quite a bit and I doubt all those hypes in the S. China Sea can even reap that much economic benefits.


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## visom

Okemos said:


> If I were leader of Vietnam, I would adopt a docile foreign policy and cuddle with all major powers by dancing with diplomacy, or stay neutral just like Thailand and Switzerland, then focus on economic and social development. Why even waste a penny? A billion a year is quite a bit and I doubt all those hypes in the S. China Sea can even reap that much economic benefits.



Even so, not even 1% of Vietnam's GDP goes towards military. I believe the reason for all of Vietnam's military spending is to show that we won't idly sit by while our neighbors get involved near our territory in their arms race. $1 billion a year may be better to invest in other areas, but it's not an economy damaging amount and delivers a message to our neighbors that we have the ability to defend ourselves should anything happen.

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## Skull and Bones

BDforever said:


> FD-2000 - First revealed in the 8th Zhuhai Airshow, the export version of HQ-9 with max range of 125km, providing extra anti-stealth capability by incorporating YLC-20 passive sensor as an option. Oops BD is going for better one



This not a typical Bangladesh mental masturbation acquisition thread, kindly choose any other thread to spoil.


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## BDforever

Skull and Bones said:


> This not a typical Bangladesh mental masturbation acquisition thread, kindly choose any other thread to spoil.



i choose myself, do not worry i will do same thing in indian defence section too


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## Skull and Bones

On topic, has Vietnam looked into the possibility to acquire any other long range L-band radars, as there are many other options available from Russia and Ukraine. 

Some other details about Vostok 2D radar. 



> Developed recently by Agat/KB Radar in Byelorussia, the Vostok is an intended replacement for the P-18 Spoon Rest series. It is a digital solid state design, operating in the VHF band. While detailed specifications have been disclosed, design details have not, especially in relation to the internal architecture of the design.
> 
> The manufacturer claims a detection range of ~40 nautical miles against the F-117A Nighthawk, or other types with similar VHF band RCS, in a jammed environment, and 190 nautical miles in an unjammed environment, with an overall 30 to 40% improvement in range performance against the Spoon Rest D/E. Two demonstrators were built and displayed at the Milex 2007 industry expo in Minsk.
> 
> A technical white paper and concurrent discussion paper reveal some interesting details, although not as much as has been disclosed on competing Russian designs like the Nebo SVU.
> 
> The design uses a unique wideband "Kharchenko" square ring element radiator, arranged in a diamond lattice pattern, intended to improve frequency agility against earlier VHF designs. The boxes distributed through the framework of the active array antenna are transmit-receive modules for the radiating elements. The cited system MTBF is 1200 hours, exceptional for this class of radar. The hydraulically folded and elevated antenna is mechanically rated for 65 knot wind gusts, and both levelling of the platform and antenna deploy/stow operations are fully automated.
> 
> Specific design aims in the Vostok E included overcoming common limitations in legacy VHF radars, in particular the poor sensitivity and clutter rejection performance, the high peak power which exposes the radar to ESM equipment, the long time to deploy and stow the antenna, and the poor fractional bandwidth which limited frequency agility.
> 
> The radar has a centre frequency of 175 MHz, and is frequency agile across fifty discrete frequency channels in the radar passband, using either random frequency hopping, or an adaptive control law which avoids frequency channels occupied by jammers.
> 
> Three channels are used for adaptive suppression of jammer signals. Low peak power is used to minimise detection range against hostile ESM. Coherent integration techniques are used, and all signal processing is digital. An adaptive processing technique is used for clutter rejection (whether this qualifies as STAP will depend on future disclosures). The Digital MTI processing is claimed to provide a dynamic range of 50 to 60 dB.
> 
> The cited RMS ranging error is 25 metres, angle error 1.1°, and velocity error 1.8 m/s, bearing to a jammer can be measured with an error of ±1°. This performance is not as good as the AESA design in the Nebo SVU, and the Vostok E lacks a heightfinding capability.
> 
> The fully automated digital data processing subsystem provides a range of automatic tracking modes, and is designed to interface to cable or RF datalink channels to other IADS elements. No less than 120 aerial targets can be tracked. A satellite navigation terminal is integrated to facilitate rapid operation starts, in a "shoot and scoot" environment. A digital map system is provided to facilitate operations, the design can display target parameters, and programmable engagement zones or other airspace boundaries. The radar is also equipped with a signal emulator which generates synthetic target tracks, and possibly jamming waveforms. Signal and data processing is performed in the radar van equipment.
> 
> The time to deploy or stow the antenna is cited at less than 6 minutes, making this a genuine "shoot and scoot" design. The operator van is based on the same arrangement as the van for the truck mounted Ranzhir E variant or Polyana command posts, carried on a 6 x 6 MZKT 65273-020 series chassis.
> 
> A production Vostok E will be a formidable 2D acquisition radar, by virtue of its modern RF design and high mobility. As a replacement for the legacy Spoon Rest, the Vostok is much more capable and mobile than the 1L13 Nebo SV / Box Spring used by Russian forces. We should not be surprised if a future Vostok AESA derivative emerges, as a competitor to the larger Nebo SVU. KBR reported the first export sale, to an undisclosed customer, early in 2009.

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## GR!FF!N

cnleio said:


> YJ-91 HARM (base KH-31P) fire range over 150km



actually,this Radars work upto 350 NM(I guess,or is it km,please check the link below) in an Jammer free environment...coupled with S-300,it can be a deadly opponent..


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## Viet

The news is not confirmed officially yet. Confirmed is just both sides want to increase cooperations at the last Vietnam-Balarus summit, May 2013.





_Belarusian girls welcome Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung according to the traditional ceremony at the Minsk Airport. Photo: Duc Tam &#8211; VNA_






_Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung talks with Belarusian President A.Lukashenko. Photo: Duc Tam &#8211; VNA
_

Vietnam, Belarus to step up military and technical cooperation - Politics - Belarus News | Belarusian news | Belarus today | news in Belarus | Minsk news | BELTA

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## Viet

walle990 said:


> 57 km is too short, 5th gen fighters can engage those anti-air installation from much further away.


your warplanes will need to come closer first, I guess, and overcome Vietnamese air defence.

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## walle990

Viet said:


> your warplanes will need to come closer first, I guess, and overcome Vietnamese air defence.



Why are you showing pictures of 1950s/60s soviet anti air missiles?


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## EastSea

Close-up of a probe-to-air missile R-27. R-27 is a medium range air-to-air missile with range up to 120 km.

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## EastSea

New radar system 36D6 for air defense forces is just leaked.

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## EastSea

walle990 said:


> Why are you showing pictures of 1950s/60s soviet anti air missiles?



Pechora air defense missiles is still in use in Vietnam after upgrading (I saw it in Northern Hanoi..


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## Soryu

Okemos said:


> *If I were leader of Vietnam*, I would adopt a docile foreign policy and cuddle with all major powers by dancing with diplomacy, or stay neutral just like Thailand and Switzerland, then focus on economic and social development. Why even waste a penny? A billion a year is quite a bit and I doubt all those hypes in the S. China Sea can even reap that much economic benefits.


Like you *"can"* ........ 


walle990 said:


> Why are you showing pictures of 1950s/60s soviet anti air missiles?


It's good enough for defense. You don't bebelieve !? Come to try it ...

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## Tanja

Okemos said:


> If I were leader of Vietnam, I would adopt a docile foreign policy and cuddle with all major powers by dancing with diplomacy, or stay neutral just like Thailand and Switzerland, then focus on economic and social development. Why even waste a penny? A billion a year is quite a bit and I doubt all those hypes in the S. China Sea can even reap that much economic benefits.



Actually that is also a good thing to do like staying neutral, being democratic. But why China does not do that if they have many smart guys like you .
Just want to clear a little bit here, because Thailand ans Switzerland do not have aggressive neighbors like Vietnam has

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## EastSea

Tanja said:


> Actually that is also a good thing to do like staying neutral, being democratic. But why China does not do that if they have many smart guys like you .
> Just want to clear a little bit here, because Thailand ans Switzerland do not have aggressive neighbors like Vietnam has



Here is true face of China.

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## ChinaToday

Rechoice said:


> You can take relax in US.
> We have to do what we think its's necessary for defend sovereignty of country.



Vietnam needs to sell a lot of fish source or begging to others countries for a massive loan to be able to defend her sovereignty


----------



## NewCastle2012

One question: did these sailors and transport ships belong to Vietnam navy?


EastSea said:


> Here is true face of China.


----------



## Viet

ChinaToday said:


> Vietnam needs to sell a lot of fish source or begging to others countries for a massive loan to be able to defend her sovereignty


ha ha ha whatever it is necessary dumb boy...

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## Viet

walle990 said:


> Why are you showing pictures of 1950s/60s soviet anti air missiles?


because they are good enough to shoot down low iq pilots

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## ViXuyen

Viet Nam already puts into operation mobile radars like 36D6, Kasta, Nebo SVU, Vostock and ESM like Kolchuga.

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## cirr

An ant trying to shake a giant tree&#12290;


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## NiceGuy

cirr said:


> An ant trying to shake a giant tree&#12290;


we only need women militia to kick the so called Giant's @$$ back in 1979 in few weeks 

Stupid giant with weak army is just like an elephant used to hunt for fun

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## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> we only need women militia to kick the so called Giant's @$$ back in 1979 in few weeks
> 
> Stupid giant with weak army is just like an elephant used to hunt for fun



Seduction?


----------



## cnleio

Soryu said:


> If that's true, it's good advance for PRC, when Russian got UKSK (I mistake in early post with USUK ).
> Is it can operate with land attack missile as Mk. 41 !?


Yes, it plan to launch CJ-10 cruise missile but we must prove it when 052D DDG serving in Navy.


The military standard of PLAN's universial VLS system(GJB 5860-2006)

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## hurt

EastSea said:


> Close-up of a probe-to-air missile R-27. R-27 is a medium range air-to-air missile with range up to 120 km.



Dont forget PLAAF own lots of R-27 than you


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## visom

hurt said:


> Dont forget PLAAF own lots of R-27 than you



And more boats, don't forget about boats, Boy Boat.

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## Okemos

Tanja said:


> Actually that is also a good thing to do like staying neutral, being democratic. But why China does not do that if they have many smart guys like you .
> Just want to clear a little bit here, because Thailand ans Switzerland do not have aggressive neighbors like Vietnam has



A big country like China can never stay neutral. Learn some history. A small guy can kiss as s of big guys and enjoy life but 2 big guys will fight. Poland cannot stay neutral and will be bullied but Switzerland can. 

Nobody will care if Singapore stole all jobs from the U.S. but the U.S. will whine if China does it. etc, etc.

Vietnam has always been very aggressive in SE Asia if one even gets a glimpse of SE Asian history. Well, not want to derail and rave about SE Asian history. But playing victim card gets you nowhere and the people in SE Asia that have been bullied by Vietnam know better than me.


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## USAHawk785

Okemos said:


> Vietnam has always been very aggressive in SE Asia if one even gets a glimpse of SE Asian history. Well, not want to derail and rave about SE Asian history. But playing victim card gets you nowhere and the people in SE Asia that have been bullied by Vietnam know better than me.



Vietnam's military history in South East Asia is as aggressive as the Thais and the Burmese. Actually, there were three powers in South East Asian History: Ayuthaya Empire of present day Thailand, Pagan Empire of present day Myanmar and Dai Viet of present day Vietnam. 

Prior to the rise of these classical states, the preeminent power in the region was Champa and the Khmer Empire.

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## Soryu

Okemos said:


> A big country like China can never stay neutral. Learn some history. A small guy can kiss as s of big guys and enjoy life but 2 big guys will fight. Poland cannot stay neutral and will be bullied but Switzerland can.
> 
> Nobody will care if Singapore stole all jobs from the U.S. but the U.S. will whine if China does it. etc, etc.
> 
> Vietnam has always been very aggressive in SE Asia if one even gets a glimpse of SE Asian history. Well, not want to derail and rave about SE Asian history. But playing victim card gets you nowhere and the people in SE Asia that have been bullied by Vietnam know better than me.


You can kiss other *** and enjoy life, but we can't. So we have Vietnam War  .


USAHawk785 said:


> Vietnam's military history in South East Asia is as aggressive as the Thais and the Burmese. Actually, there were three powers in South East Asian History: Ayuthaya Empire of present day Thailand, Pagan Empire of present day Myanmar and *Dai Viet of present day Burma*.
> 
> Prior to the rise of these classical states, the preeminent power in the region was Champa and the Khmer Empire.



*Red* part !???


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## USAHawk785

Soryu said:


> You can kiss other *** and enjoy life, but we can't. So we have Vietnam War  .
> 
> 
> *Red* part !???



Ooops! hahaha, i meant to say present day Vietnam.

Thanks for the sexy red reminder, Soryu.


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## LiberalAtheist

Who knows if the F-117 technology was used on the J-20 Vietnam may able to track their fighters with this radar.


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## USAHawk785

The USN already tracks any Chinese flights around the region. 7th Fleet could easily coordinate with Vietnam in air supremacy operations in regards to containing air operations of a certain nation in the region.

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## hurt

visom said:


> And more boats, don't forget about boats, Boy Boat.



Loser


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## hurt

USAHawk785 said:


> The USN already tracks any Chinese flights around the region. 7th Fleet could easily coordinate with Vietnam in air supremacy operations in regards to containing air operations of a certain nation in the region.


how? Viet own data link?


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## visom

hurt said:


> Loser



I know you're very, very angry. Your emoticons can't cover that. 
Got anymore boat pictures to show?

Oh I've noticed you have no avatar, here's 1 suggestion you might like:


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## hurt

visom said:


> I know you're very, very angry. Your emoticons can't cover that.
> Got anymore boat pictures to show?
> 
> Oh I've noticed you have no avatar, here's 1 suggestion you might like:


I am not angry
send you a boat


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## EastSea

visom said:


> I know you're very, very angry. Your emoticons can't cover that.
> Got anymore boat pictures to show?
> 
> Oh I've noticed you have no avatar, here's 1 suggestion you might like:



He don't understand what you said.

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## EastSea

USAHawk785 said:


> The USN already tracks any Chinese flights around the region. 7th Fleet could easily coordinate with Vietnam in air supremacy operations in regards to containing air operations of a certain nation in the region.




You can send to us all data collected over Satellite link.

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## USAHawk785

EastSea said:


> You can send to us all data collected over Satellite link.



For sure, how about we establish a naval base in Cam Ranh Bay, first.


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## walle990

Chinese fishing boats are enough to deter any US surveillance ships. 

Remember how USS impeccable got drove out by chinese fishing vessels and US generals had to chuck a fit about it?


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## ViXuyen

USAHawk785 said:


> For sure, how about we establish a naval base in Cam Ranh Bay, first.


Can't do that. Cam Ranh is designated as the base for the 6 Kilo-class submarines, 4 Gepard corvettes and other vessels of the navy.

Why do you need a base in Cam Ranh when you can get one in the Philippines?


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## hurt

EastSea said:


> You can send to us all data collected over Satellite link.



useful&#65311;



ViXuyen said:


> Can't do that. Cam Ranh is designated as the base for the 6 Kilo-class submarines, 4 Gepard corvettes and other vessels of the navy.
> 
> Why do you need a base in Cam Ranh when you can get one in the Philippines?



No pain No gain


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## JUBA

I didn't know China and Vietnam had a dispute.

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## visom

EastSea said:


> He don't understand what you said.



I think you're right. I'm surprised he's even smart enough to use a computer.

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## Manindra

JUBA said:


> I didn't know China and Vietnam had a dispute.



Because you are awake from long sleep

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## Manindra

Stealth increalth survivebility probability but it is most effective in air to air engagement with air defence because fighter plane not posses as advance radar as ground but AWACS fulfill this vaccum.


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## Slavery

keep dreaming....


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## Beast

Tanja said:


> Actually that is also a good thing to do like staying neutral, being democratic. But why China does not do that if they have many smart guys like you .
> Just want to clear a little bit here, because Thailand ans Switzerland do not have aggressive neighbors like Vietnam has



I urge you Finnish who know nothing of Asian history to stay out of this business... Finish can only access to bias US ,western media who will feed you with nothing but anti-China info.

Check out who started kicking out Chinese fishermen from Huangyang island area before China take action?
Who started shooting unarmed fisherman in disputed area?

Who started oil exploration surveilance first when first agree not to explore those area before agreement is made.

The western media and US will tell you how those island thousand years ago belong to them when Vietnam and Philipppine has not even achieve civilisation yet.

The western and US will not tell you any of the truth when comes to this kind of event. Just like how US painted itself as cyber attack victim and use CNN and other media to bombard China, claiming China systematically steal and attack US data when US is an angel and is the king of democracy and freedom. Only to be slapped it own face by righteous countryman like Snowden who reveal US is the number villain when comes to cyber attack.

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## Tanja

oh you say that I know nothing and stay out of this business  
  Seems legit 

&#24590;&#20040; NO?  

Dont bring other subjects here like the US and this and that. I also think that the US is a hypocrite in Snowden issue but it is off topic. AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT FINLAND STAYS NEUTRAL IN EVERYTHING and so am I. 

Clearly what i think is that China is now violating the Vietnamese sea because you know why? Because I was in one fishing boat near Nha Trang Vietnam last summer and saw WITH MY OWN EYES Chinese armed police chased us even though the boat was clearly very near the Vietnamese shore and China as far as I know is damn far from that. I would like to **** off Perkele saatana  but I am too nice to do that therefore I just protect Vietnamese here. IS THAT CLEAR? Ni mingbai ma? 

I was in Suzhou, Hangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai...I love China and Chinese people too. Every of my opinion at least have been observed with my own eyes... not through media. I DONT TRUST MEDIA.

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## EastSea

Spratly and Paracel Island are under control of Vietnam from ancient time.







The Complete Map of the Unified Dai Nam indicated that "Hoang Sa" and "Van Ly Truong Sa" are Vietnamese territories. These islands were depicted to be further offshore compared to those near the Central coast.

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## Wholegrain

Tanja said:


> oh you say that I know nothing and stay out of this business
> Seems legit
> 
> &#24590;&#20040; NO?
> 
> Dont bring other subjects here like the US and this and that. I also think that the US is a hypocrite in Snowden issue but it is off topic. AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT FINLAND STAYS NEUTRAL IN EVERYTHING and so am I.
> 
> Clearly what i think is that China is now violating the Vietnamese sea because you know why? Because I was in one fishing boat near Nha Trang Vietnam last summer and saw WITH MY OWN EYES Chinese armed police chased us even though the boat was clearly very near the Vietnamese shore and China as far as I know is damn far from that. I would like to **** off Perkele saatana  but I am too nice to do that therefore I just protect Vietnamese here. IS THAT CLEAR? Ni mingbai ma?
> 
> I was in Suzhou, Hangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai...I love China and Chinese people too. Every of my opinion at least have been observed with my own eyes... not through media. I DONT TRUST MEDIA.



And this alleged incident has nothing to do with the dispute over the islands and Vietnam's illegitimate claims over them. If America violated Mexican waters, that doesn't mean Mexico can start claiming American territory. Any reports of this incident in the Vietnamese media, which is always eager to pounce on anything negative about China?

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## ViXuyen

I doubt Viet Nam will buy more of the Vostok radar

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## EastSea




----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Vietnam has a long coastline, sea waters greater than mainland 3x, so we need more radar like as Vostok that is understandable...

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## NiceGuy

Wholegrain said:


> And this alleged incident has nothing to do with the dispute over the islands and Vietnam's illegitimate claims over them. If America violated Mexican waters, that doesn't mean Mexico can start claiming American territory. Any reports of this incident in the Vietnamese media, which is always eager to pounce on anything negative about China?



let me remind u again, we only lay claims over the islands, not the whole waters in SCS(east sea) like u. if u believe that those water belong to u, then u must fight against the Whole world coz its the International waters

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## sEoulman556

Skull and Bones said:


> This not a typical Bangladesh mental masturbation acquisition thread, kindly choose any other thread to spoil.



And this isn't the thread to troll just because you have a problem with their race. Maybe you would like to choose another thread to spoil?


----------



## Oldman1

Wholegrain said:


> And this alleged incident has nothing to do with the dispute over the islands and Vietnam's illegitimate claims over them. If America violated Mexican waters, that doesn't mean Mexico can start claiming American territory. Any reports of this incident in the Vietnamese media, which is always eager to pounce on anything negative about China?



It be like claiming all of Gulf of Mexico. Now the Mexicans cannot fish or exploit those waters. Nor can they travel through the Gulf of Mexico without permission.

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## Beast

Oldman1 said:


> It be like claiming all of Gulf of Mexico. Now the Mexicans cannot fish or exploit those waters. Nor can they travel through the Gulf of Mexico without permission.



Your analogy failed... Somehow you are so quick and precise to jump on Vietnamese claim is legal while Chinese law is illegal. Oh, I forget you are flying an american flag.


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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> let me remind u again, we only lay claims over the islands, not the whole waters in SCS(east sea) like u. if u believe that those water belong to u, then u must fight against the Whole world coz its the International waters



Why we cannot claim the whole island when historically it belongs to China? If you use your analogy. Why are you claiming Spratly island? Kettle calling a pot black. But Vietnam troll opinion is useless becos your president and whole VCP has decided to go peace with China. They are going to turn an blind eye of China action... 

Your Vietnam Navy frigate just set off and going for a friendly visit to China recently. Vietnam and China are friends. Why argue for a few island when China can give Vietnam more economy benefit.  You can weep and cry but it will not change the fact. Vietnam has stop any oil surveilance action on disputed island with China. Vietnam has ban all Anti-China activities or demonstration. Vietnam regards PLA as comrade and allow friendly visit to Saigon this january. All this are facts that Vietnam wants a cosy relationship with China. 

Vietnam president even recently signed a few major business treaty with China. It is rumour Vietnam will turn a blind eye on all Chinese naval and fishing activities in spratly island in return. A great move by Vietnam President. He is doing great for all Vietnamese and Vietnam. 

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/8301832.html



> ZHANJIANG, June 26 (ChinaMil) -- The Vietnamese naval taskforce consisting of the "Ly Thai To" and "Dinh Tien Hoang" guided missile frigates along with 200 officers and men led by Senior Captain Nguyen Duc Nho, deputy chief of staff of the Vietnamese Navy, arrived at the military port of Zhanjiang in south China's Guangdong province at 09:30 on June 25, 2013 for a four-day-long goodwill visit. Zhang Chuanshu, deputy chief of staff of the South China Sea Fleet of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLAN), Nguyen Van Tho, Vietnamese ambassador to China, and others were at the port to welcome the arriving Vietnamese naval taskforce.
> 
> During the visit in Zhanjiang, the officers and men of the PLAN and the Vietnamese Navy will visit each other's ships and hold a friendly soccer match. The personnel of the Vietnamese Navy will also visit the city and tourist attractions of Zhanjiang.
> 
> It is reported that the Vietnamese naval taskforce had joined with the "Hengyang" guided missile frigate and the "Huangshan" guided missile frigate of the PLAN to complete the 15th China-Vietnam Beibu Gulf joint patrol mission prior to the visit.
> 
> Both the "Ly Thai To" guided missile frigate with the designated hull number of HQ012 and the "Dinh Tien Hoang" guided missile frigate with the designated hull number of HQ011 belong to the "Gepard"-class guided missile frigates of the Vietnamese Navy, with a full-load displacement of 2,090 tons, length of 102 meters, width of 13.6 meters and a draft of 4.7 meters respectively. Built by Russia and entered into service in 2011, the two frigates are currently the most advanced warships of the Vietnamese Navy.


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## Nexus

BDforever said:


> Bangladesh and Belarus are now defence partners... hope BD will go for that  Bangladesh is going to buy HQ-9 which is based on S-300, so the radar can be used for HQ-9


 @Skull and Bones and @BDforever really ?


----------



## BDforever

Nexus said:


> @Skull and Bones and @BDforever really ?



what ?


----------



## Nexus

BDforever said:


> what ?



your news btw &#2447;&#2454;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2496; &#2488;&#2470;&#2488;&#2509;&#2479;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2470;&#2503;&#2454;&#2468;&#2503; &#2477;&#2494;&#2482;.

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## BDforever

Nexus said:


> your news btw &#2447;&#2454;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2496; &#2488;&#2470;&#2488;&#2509;&#2479;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2470;&#2503;&#2454;&#2468;&#2503; &#2477;&#2494;&#2482;.



which news ? hq-9 or defence tie with belarus ? 

i do not know what you tried to say in bangla, i guess you wanted to say that a good number of bangladeshi are present in pdf

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## Soryu

Beast said:


> bla bla bla...yah-huuuu... bla bla bla ... yah-huuuuu ....


Where's this beast come from !? a dirty hole in junlge !?

I still waiting PRC missiles fly over Vietnam'sky, it's so long, guys.


----------



## Pulsar

Okemos said:


> Cool, lets trash Vietnam economy with arms race.
> 
> More seriously, maybe I am a pacifist, *but why do smaller countries spend so much money on military spending? I mean isn't better to use that amount of money in education etc than on weapons that are being updated constantly.*


With China breathing down one's neck, what is the alternative?

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## Soryu

@WebMaster: you should clean some unrelated post in this topic .......


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## Soryu

So this place became where's Chinese can chat chit by mandarin for some funny !???
@Hu Songshan: You should do something ...


----------



## Sasquatch

Soryu said:


> So this place became where's Chinese can chat chit by mandarin for some funny !???
> @Hu Songshan: You should do something ...



Sorry I haven't been on for a while, all off topic posts have been deleted.


Please keep the posts in English as well.

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## Viet

KirovAirship said:


> I don't get it.


Since ancient times, we call you Trung Qu&#7889;c Zh&#333;ngguó &#20013;&#22269; or ng&#432;&#7901;i Trung Qu&#7889;c &#20013;&#22269;&#20154;, there is no China nor Chinese.

Other names are ng&#432;&#7901;i Trung hoa or ng&#432;&#7901;i tàu (people who come to Vietnam by boats, telling the story of the Han´s refugees seeking shelter ín Vietnam).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoa_people


----------



## Snomannen

Viet said:


> Since ancient times, we call you Trung Qu&#7889;c Zh&#333;ngguó &#20013;&#22269; or ng&#432;&#7901;i Trung Qu&#7889;c &#20013;&#22269;&#20154;, there is no China nor Chinese.
> 
> Other names are ng&#432;&#7901;i Trung hoa or ng&#432;&#7901;i tàu (people who come to Vietnam by boats, telling the story of the Han´s refugees seeking shelter ín Vietnam).
> 
> Hoa people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



But &#20013;&#22269; is China.


----------



## Soryu

Hu Songshan said:


> Sorry I haven't been on for a while, all off topic posts have been deleted.
> 
> 
> Please keep the posts in English as well.


Oh, I know everyone has jobs and important thing to do, so I just report the case and see it done ...


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Why we cannot claim the whole island when historically it belongs to China? If you use your analogy. Why are you claiming Spratly island? Kettle calling a pot black. But Vietnam troll opinion is useless becos your president and whole VCP has decided to go peace with China. They are going to turn an blind eye of China action...


Okay, keep claimming and facing against the whole wolrd, dont blame people if they unite and kick ur stupid jerk's @$$ 


Beast said:


> Your Vietnam Navy frigate just set off and going for a friendly visit to China recently. Vietnam and China are friends. Why argue for a few island when China can give Vietnam more economy benefit. You can weep and cry but it will not change the fact. Vietnam has stop any oil surveilance action on disputed island with China. Vietnam has ban all Anti-China activities or demonstration. Vietnam regards PLA as comrade and allow friendly visit to Saigon this january. All this are facts that Vietnam wants a cosy relationship with China.
> 
> Vietnam president even recently signed a few major business treaty with China. It is rumour Vietnam will turn a blind eye on all Chinese naval and fishing activities in spratly island in return. A great move by Vietnam President. He is doing great for all Vietnamese and Vietnam.


Use Ah Q's priritual victory again ?? My president come to China and demand u to solve the issue properly, base on Internaltional law, and ur corrputed leader dared not say a single tough word 


> Regarding the East Sea issue, the two leaders spent much time exchanging views in a friendly, straightforward manner with mutual respect. The two sides reached consensus that the two Parties and States should maintain contacts and dialogues on this issue, settling disputes by peaceful measures based on international law, seeking basic and long-term solutions acceptable to both sides and solving arising issues satisfactorily. The two sides affirmed to strictly implement the agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of sea-related issues between Vietnam and China. It is an important document signed by the two countries in October 2011 that includes contents on basic principles to solve disputes in the seas, such as respecting fully limitative evidence and consider other related factors, based on international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and implementing comprehensively and effectively the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC).
> Important Landmark in Vietnam-China Comprehensive Strategic Cooperative Partnership - Vietnam Pictorial

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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Use Ah Q's priritual victory again ?? My president come to China and demand u to solve the issue properly, base on Internaltional law, and ur corrputed leader dared not say a single tough word



Ah Q? Why not ask your VCP why oil surveilance in disputed area is not resume? Too scare to get your cable snap by our ship again? Now see who is the Ah Q.. 

Treaty signed is nothing. Action speaks louder.


----------



## Soryu

It's useless to talking with beast, but I will give a good hand to help Mr.Ah-Q ... 



ViXuyen said:


> This is Moc Tinh-Hai Thach project aka Block 5.2. This block is 370 km from Viet Nam's shore. In 2007, British Petroleum pulled out because of Chinese pressure but Viet Nam continue on with it. So much for Vietnam giving "concession" to China
> 
> Construction of the project
> bien dong 1 nhat ky cong truong - YouTube
> 
> Launch of its jacket
> H

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## Viet

tanks exercise

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## ViXuyen

Beast said:


> Ah Q? Why not ask your VCP why oil surveilance in disputed area is not resume? Too scare to get your cable snap by our ship again? Now see who is the Ah Q..
> 
> Treaty signed is nothing. Action speaks louder.


Block 5.2 was the one that China jumped up and down forcing BP to pull out of Viet Nam in 2007Guess what? Viet Nam is now the sole party who exploits this block while BP spent so much effort trying to develope it. Viet Nam gives China another in-your-face and what you can do about it?

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## Beast

ViXuyen said:


> Block 5.2 was the one that China jumped up and down forcing BP to pull out of Viet Nam in 2007Guess what? Viet Nam is now the sole party who exploits this block while BP spent so much effort trying to develope it. Viet Nam gives China another in-your-face and what you can do about it?



BS. So much of your Ah Q, the area you try to surveillance is in fact has the biggest deposit of fossil fuel and is the reason why we snap off your cable. Until now, no Vietnam surveillance ship is back in that area. So much of your bravery. 

I tell you what China always accept compromise. We always love China 70% and Vietnam %30 sharing resources. I believe yr president already secretly accept a pact with China to co share spratly island profit. Don't believe, check out with Malaysia.


----------



## ViXuyen

Beast said:


> BS. So much of your Ah Q, the area you try to surveillance is in fact has the biggest deposit of fossil fuel and is the reason why we snap off your cable. Until now, no Vietnam surveillance ship is back in that area. So much of your bravery.
> 
> I tell you what China always accept compromise. We always love China 70% and Vietnam %30 sharing resources. I believe yr president already secretly accept a pact with China to co share spratly island profit. Don't believe, check out with Malaysia.


You need to be consistent with your story. On one end, you laugh at the Indian for exploring the same area that shows no sign of oil. On one end, you claim the same area that you cut the Vietnamese's cable is full of treasure? Pick your poison will ya? 

Believe me, Viet Nam has been exploring the Central coast since the 1980's (before you even cut our cables) and there has been no sign of oil yet; we don't lose a sweat over it. The real deal lays in the South that's why we meant business when BP pulled out of Block 5.2 (which lays 370 km away from Viet Nam), we continue on with the project. We put our rig on Block 5.2 (that you screamed at BP) and suk up the oil and gas; what can ya do about it?

Viet Nam has absolute historical sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands. Viet Nam will never negotiate over anything that is 100% rightfully belongs to us and that is why there is no treaty between Viet Nam and "anyone" over the Paracel and Spratly. You want "compromise"? You will need to invade the Spratly Island for a compromise and I have said many times, the time to use force for you guys is 2013. NOW. So far, I only see your side having no balls to start a war with us over this sea.

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## NiceGuy

Ukraine to repair engines of Vietnamese Su-27 aircraft
BULLETIN RELEASED: 22/07/13 4:59PM GMT
UKRAINE-VIETNAM-AIRCRAFT-ENGINES





Kyiv, July 22 (Interfax-Ukraine) &#8211; Ukroboronservice state-owned enterprise, a part of the state-run concern Ukroboronprom, and Vietnamese VAXUCO have signed a contract on repairs of AL-31F aircraft engines for the Vietnam People&#8217;s Air Force.

The press service of the state concern told an Interfax-Ukraine agency that, according to the contract, the Ukrainian side will repair AL-31F aircraft engines at the &#8220;Motor&#8221; Lutsk Repair Plant in Volyn region. According to a separate agreement, apart from the repairs, the Ukrainian side will also provide Vietnam with technical consulting on overhauls of AL-31F aircraft engines.

The state concern did not disclose other details of the contract.

The AL-31F aircraft engines were designed for the Sukhoi Su-27 fighter aircraft and its modifications.

During a meeting between Ukroboronprom Director General Serhiy Hromov and Commander of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Air Force, Colonel General Phuong Minh Hoa before the signing of the contract, the sides reaffirmed their mutual interest in further bilateral military and technical cooperation.

Hromov said that in the near future the Ukrainian side would send to its Vietnamese partners its proposals on the supply and modernization of air defense equipment, aircraft and armored vehicles, as well as on repairs and upgrading of naval equipment. He stressed that training of Vietnamese experts was also an important part of cooperation.

&#8220;This part will be taken into account during the signing of further contracts on supplies of military equipment to Vietnam,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;Vietnam is a promising country for our national defense industry products and we will continue to strengthen Ukraine&#8217;s position on the marked of this dynamically developing country,&#8221; he said.

In turn, Commander of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Air Force praised the signed agreements and cooperation development prospects with Ukraine.

&#8220;These agreements open prospects for new contracts on repair documentation, tooling, and facilities for the repairs of aircraft engines. Ukraine is one of Vietnam&#8217;s strategic partners in the defense sphere. We are ready to expand cooperation in the spheres of the procurement of new arms, as well as the modernization and prolongation of durability of military equipment of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Army,&#8221; he said.

Ukraine and Vietnam approved a plan and a program for military and technical cooperation for 2011-2015 in September 2010 on the results of the seventh meeting of their intergovernmental coordinating commission for military and technical cooperation.

The sides have successful cooperation experience, in particular in the sphere of the modernization of a wide range of military equipment for the Vietnamese Army, the creation of an aircraft maintenance facility, and the development of a shipbuilding program for Vietnam.
Ukraine to repair engines of Vietnamese Su-27 aircraft » Interfax News Wire :: Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Central Asia
Hope one day, Ukraine will transfer AL-31F aircraft engines technology to VN

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## Beast

ViXuyen said:


> You need to be consistent with your story. On one end, you laugh at the Indian for exploring the same area that shows no sign of oil. On one end, you claim the same area that you cut the Vietnamese's cable is full of treasure? Pick your poison will ya?
> 
> Believe me, Viet Nam has been exploring the Central coast since the 1980's (before you even cut our cables) and there has been no sign of oil yet; we don't lose a sweat over it. The real deal lays in the South that's why we meant business when BP pulled out of Block 5.2 (which lays 370 km away from Viet Nam), we continue on with the project. We put our rig on Block 5.2 (that you screamed at BP) and suk up the oil and gas; what can ya do about it?
> 
> Viet Nam has absolute historical sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands. Viet Nam will never negotiate over anything that is 100% rightfully belongs to us and that is why there is no treaty between Viet Nam and "anyone" over the Paracel and Spratly. You want "compromise"? You will need to invade the Spratly Island for a compromise and I have said many times, the time to use force for you guys is 2013. NOW. So far, I only see your side having no balls to start a war with us over this sea.



Wonderful delusion. You continue to avoid why VCP has no resume surveillance on the same spot we cut yr cable. Instead point out drilling at another spot which we give yr blessing. That spot is the 30% China allocated for you. If its Russian or American that you are talking with. They will not even give you 1%. You shall thank China for being so generous to you. 

If you got balls. Got with yr troll comrade for an anti- china protest march down to VCP hall. I know you can't do that. VCP outlaw all anti-China protest. They sue for peace with CCP. Your frigate even visit our naval base.  What War?


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## Soryu

No need to talking with beasts, you can't to train it become a human and understand our language ...


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## Beast

Soryu said:


> No need to talking with beasts, you can't to train it become a human and understand our language ...



I challenge you to organise anti China protest and you scared until you sh@t yr pants. Try to divert question? 
VCP sue peace with China is a fact you all just need to shut up and admit it. 

You are an egg, just admit it. Nobody will say you are cowards. People will only say you are stupid if you as an egg try to go against a rock. 

VCP make the best choice out for your people by going peace with China. And you idiots don't even appreciate the effort.


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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> I challenge you to organise anti China protest and you scared until you sh@t yr pants. Try to divert question?
> VCP sue peace with China is a fact you all just need to shut up and admit it.


Same to u, we challenge you to organise anti VN protest , Im sure the Beast will be locked up like a poor dog right after that.

Corrupted Chinese leaders beg for peace with VN is a fact you all just need to shut up and admit it

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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Same to u, we challenge you to organise anti VN protest , Im sure the Beast will be locked up like a poor dog right after that.
> 
> Corrupted Chinese leaders beg for peace with VN is a fact you all just need to shut up and admit it



Why would we need to anti-Vietnam protest when we don't even think Vietnam can't even touch a single hair of Chinese? 





(Vietnam anti-China protest being suppress)

None of us Chinese even think Vietnam is a threat. You see why Vietnam Frigate are invited to China for friendly visit after you all invite us in the january? 





(Vietnam navy frigate visit China)





(PLAN frigate visit Ho Chi Ming City in Jan 2013)


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## ViXuyen

Beast said:


> Wonderful delusion. You continue to avoid why VCP has no resume surveillance on the same spot we cut yr cable. Instead point out drilling at another spot which we give yr blessing. That spot is the 30% China allocated for you. If its Russian or American that you are talking with. They will not even give you 1%. You shall thank China for being so generous to you.
> 
> If you got balls. Got with yr troll comrade for an anti- china protest march down to VCP hall. I know you can't do that. VCP outlaw all anti-China protest. They sue for peace with CCP. Your frigate even visit our naval base.  What War?


We do our oil surveillance in the same spot or any spot since the 1980's.. Do we need to report to you to prove that we're doing our oil exploration activities? How naive. Do you even have proof that we have stop doing our oil surveillance in the spot that you cut our cables other than your cheap rant? Let me make it simple for you. The spot that you cut our cables is 150 km away from our coast and Block 5.2 that we are drilling oil right now is 370 km from our coast. You gave us a "blessing" by forcing BP out of Viet Nam so we can have 100% of the profit of Block 5.2 now; you guys are beyound stupid

The VCP outlaw any protest against the VCP either; does that mean the VCP is sueing for peace with the VCP itself?  

There is no protest against the VCP in Viet Nam but there are protests against China speaks volume about the policy of the VCP.  Nobody in Viet Nam is allowed to stage a protest unless they're given permission by the VCP itself. Now you fool really believe that we "put down" our protestors and jailed them for years; you guys are beyound naive.

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## ViXuyen

Beast said:


> I challenge you to organise anti China protest and you scared until you sh@t yr pants. Try to divert question?
> VCP sue peace with China is a fact you all just need to shut up and admit it.
> 
> You are an egg, just admit it. Nobody will say you are cowards. People will only say you are stupid if you as an egg try to go against a rock.
> 
> VCP make the best choice out for your people by going peace with China. And you idiots don't even appreciate the effort.


The VCP allows anti-China protests in Viet Nam that's why they are protests, dummy

People in Viet Nam are only scared shi et of protesting against the VCP on the streets of Ha Noi and Sai Gon but they don't give a sh iet when it comes to protesting China. This speak volume more than your cheap rant

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## Beast

ViXuyen said:


> We do our oil surveillance in the same spot or any spot since the 1980's.. Do we need to report to you to prove that we're doing our oil exploration activities? How naive. Do you even have proof that we have stop doing our oil surveillance in the spot that you cut our cables other than your cheap rant? Let me make it simple for you. The spot that you cut our cables is 150 km away from our coast and Block 5.2 that we are drilling oil right now is 370 km from our coast. You gave us a "blessing" by forcing BP out of Viet Nam so we can have 100% of the profit of Block 5.2 now; you guys are beyound stupid
> 
> The VCP outlaw any protest against the VCP either; does that mean the VCP is sueing for peace with the VCP itself?
> 
> There is no protest against the VCP in Viet Nam but there are protests against China speaks volume about the policy of the VCP.  Nobody in Viet Nam is allowed to stage a protest unless they're given permission by the VCP itself. Now you fool really believe that we "put down" our protestors and jailed them for years; you guys are beyound naive.



 Can you provide me you go back to the exact spot to continue the surveilance? Stop your self delusion. I already mention in previous post. China is generous to share profit of Spratly Island even we claim the whole area. China always go for (China 70%),( Vietnam 30%) strategy when dealing with smaller countries. You think you can start drilling without the blessing of China?

Obviously VCP has come to compromise with China. If not, not even a single boat of PLAN is ever anchor on your city for visit 

We are talking about at the height of the tension disputed then suddenly, PLAN frigate was invited to Ho Chi Ming City in january for a friendly visit. Check out the thread in pk forum. Even some of your troll were bewildered by this decision.. For me I got a big laugh at those troll who talk so much of fighting China..


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## Soryu

@ViXuyen: stop talking with Beast, bro. It's useless when you try to make animal understand about these things.


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## ViXuyen

Beast said:


> Can you provide me you go back to the exact spot to continue the surveilance? Stop your self delusion. I already mention in previous post. China is generous to share profit of Spratly Island even we claim the whole area. China always go for (China 70%),( Vietnam 30%) strategy when dealing with smaller countries. You think you can start drilling without the blessing of China?
> 
> Obviously VCP has come to compromise with China. If not, not even a single boat of PLAN is ever anchor on your city for visit
> 
> We are talking about at the height of the tension disputed then suddenly, PLAN frigate was invited to Ho Chi Ming City in january for a friendly visit. Check out the thread in pk forum. Even some of your troll were bewildered by this decision.. For me I got a big laugh at those troll who talk so much of fighting China..


Can you provide me with proof that we have not gone back to the same spot to survey oil????? We drill at a spot much further away from the spot that you cut our cables so stop being delusional that cutting our cable would stop us from drilling oil.

Your PLAN ship has visited HCMC in the past few months but the incident is so small that our media hardly talk about it. On the other hand, when we visited your city, you guys put us on headline news

We don't compromise that's why we drill at the spot that you scream at BP

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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Why would we need to anti-Vietnam protest when we don't even think Vietnam can't even touch a single hair of Chinese?
> 
> )


 So why would we need to have anti-China protest ,too ?? U r not deserve to be our threat too coz ur army suck, we only need our women militia to kick ur a$$ back in few weeks in 1979 

We dont need ur dirty,poor resouces and polluted land , so we never think abt attack China coz we gain Nothing but a billions of hungry peasants quacking for food every day,it'd better to let u guys kill each other for food in civil war , got it Beast ??

anyway: stop talking trash in this thread pls Beast Ah Q, we r so tired with ur "spiritual victory" already

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## Viet

@Reashot Xigwin
this news may be of interest for you? it is about the thread: The Submarine Race in the Malaccan Strait, where you say Vietnam is too far away. 


Singapore, Vietnam strengthen military cooperation

Updated : 7/23/2013 7:02:12 PM







(VOV) - Lieutenant General Vo Tan Tuan, Deputy Chief of the Vietnam People's Army&#8217;s (VPA) General Staff, has hosted a Hanoi reception for visiting *Singapore Armed Forces Chief* Guards Officer Chieng Siak Kianon July 23.

Chief Guards Officer Chieng Siak Kian updated the progress of the delegation&#8217;s work with Ministry of Defence agencies.

Both sides used the reception to summarise their cooperative defence achievements in recent years and highlight the impressive progress made in bilateral relations more generally.





_Major General Ravinder Singh, Chief of the Singaporean Army, and Vietnam´s Senior Lieutenant-General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff_


Both armies have pledged to expand high-level delegation exchanges and soldier training initiatives in the future.

The Singaporean side has offered to host Vietnamese military personnel studying in Singapore, work together on *submarine *rescue, and share its experiences in United Nations peacekeeping force deployments.

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## Soryu

_*K-300P Bastion, mobile coastal defense missile systems of Vietnam People's Navy*_







_*A newly acquired ST-68UM2V (36D6M1V) 3D surveillance radar of the Vietnam Air Defense Force*_

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## Soryu

&#8206;*Project 11661&#8236; - Gepard 3.9 - Vietnam People Navy*

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## Oldman1

Beast said:


> Your analogy failed... Somehow you are so quick and precise to jump on Vietnamese claim is legal while Chinese law is illegal. Oh, I forget you are flying an american flag.



Actions speak louder than words. What are you doing against Filipino fishermen? Deny them the right to fish in waters thats closer to them than China?

32 Chinese ships in shoal, bar Filipino fishermen | Manila-US Times

Chinese maritime ships are denying Filipino fishermen access to their traditional fishing grounds in the lagoon of Panatag Shoal, a chain of reefs and rocks off Zambales province whose ownership is being disputed by China and the Philippines even as Chinese vessels were seen continuing to mass in Panatag, also known as Bajo de Masinloc and its international name, Scarborough Shoalwhich China claims to own even if the shoal is 472 nautical miles from the nearest Chinese coast.
According to the local government of Masinloc, which is only 124 nautical miles from Panatag, the towns fishermen have reported that Chinese government vessels had blocked their entry to the lagoon.

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## Soryu

Vietnamese sailor (student) was learning at Russian _Academy Kuznetsov_, asking General Director, Mr. Viktor N. Kashkin about model of new version Gepard 3.9 with ASW capable.

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## Viet

Vietnam, US establish comprehensive partnership

_Updated : 7/26/2013 8:58:49 AM
Voice of Vietnam_








Both countries have decided to establish a *comprehensive partnership* on the principles of respect for the United Nations Charter and international law as well as for each other&#8217;s political institution, independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.

The Vietnamese and US Presidents reached the decision during their talks on July 25 at the White House during President Truong Tan Sang&#8217;s on-going official visit to the US.

*President Barack Obama *affirmed that the US attaches importance to the US-Vietnam relationship and Vietnam&#8217;s role in the region. He expressed wish that the relations between the two countries will continue to see strong development in the time to come.
































fulltext version
Vietnam, US establish comprehensive partnership | VOV Online Newspaper

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## Viet

Vietnam, US Joint Statement


_Friday, 26/07/2013 - 11:23 AM (GMT+7) nhandan.com_






Co-operations on fields of
- Political and Diplomatic
- Trade and Economic Ties
- Science and Technology
- Education 
- Environment and Health
- War Legacy Issues
- Defence and Security
- Promotion and Protection of Human Rights
- Culture, Tourism and Sports


Nhandan newspaper - English version - Vietnam, US issue Joint Statement

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## ViXuyen

Viettel's UAV, page 9
http://viettel.com.vn/cmsmedia/Upload/-1/2013/07/Noi san nguoi Viettel thang 06 2013.pdf

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## Viet

Am I wrong or Mr Obama did not mention a word on lifting weapons embargo?


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> Am I wrong or Mr Obama did not mention a word on lifting weapons embargo?


Well i never read any news before showed U.S allow West weapons export to any Communist countries, whatever Vietnamese,Russian, Chinese, Korean, Cuban they were or ever Communist. They do not trust & like Communist country. U can change urself or They can help u to change urself.


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Am I wrong or Mr Obama did not mention a word on lifting weapons embargo?


It'll need time before USA can do that. 
Vietnam leader was just met China Leader, and now, was greeting by USA leader, it'll not so fast. We signed to establish comprehensive partnership, and I believe, after we completed TPP, tightening our benefits, we can have a all-equally relationship.


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## visom

There's still some tension with Obama and Vietnam's government. Obama was planning on not fully opening trades with Vietnam due to its government's treatment of people rebelling against the communist party.


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## Rechoice

join to TPP is good for Vietnam.

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## ViXuyen

My thinking is that the U.S does not care about human rights and democrap problem in Viet Nam; the main reason is the U.S does not trust Viet Nam even after 18 years or normalization.

Now, even if the U.S ends the arms embargo; the U.S might not trust Viet Nam enough to offer Viet Nam technology licensing to produce U.S weapon like F-16. In a scenario like that, Viet Nam is back to square one because what the U.S offers in an arms deal is nothing better in value than the Russian offer Viet Nam. 

Don't count too much on the U.S putting an end to the arms ambargo. I have more hope on Viet Nam being able to produce radar, sonar, MALE UAV, anti-ship missile, SAM in the next 10 years than any fruitful military cooperation between U.S and Viet Nam in the next 20 years.

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## StarCraft_ZT

Soryu said:


> It'll need time before USA can do that.
> Vietnam leader was just met China Leader, and now, was greeting by USA leader, it'll not so fast. We signed to establish comprehensive partnership, and I believe, after we completed TPP, tightening our benefits, we can have a all-equally relationship.



How is your negotiation of TPP? Well, a complete equal relationship seems far away, though Vietnam participates TPP, unless Vietnam's competitiveness of domestic market is strong enough to fight against Japan, Australia in this TPP. I checked Vietnam's export structure, like China 10 years ago, mainly of which are primary product.

As far as I know, TPP was first established by Brunei, New Zealand, Chile and Singapore. As US's participation, it started to have extensive influences ever since. Why does not ASEAN as an entire unit to join in? Maybe you will get more negotiable strength and support.

Really, Japan's participation in TPP will affect China's international export market.



ViXuyen said:


> My thinking is that the U.S does not care about human rights and democrap problem in Viet Nam; the main reason is the U.S does not trust Viet Nam even after 18 years or normalization.
> 
> Now, even if the U.S ends the arms embargo; the U.S might not trust Viet Nam enough to offer Viet Nam technology licensing to produce U.S weapon like F-16. In a scenario like that, Viet Nam is back to square one because what the U.S offers in an arms deal is nothing better in value than the Russian offer Viet Nam.
> 
> Don't count too much on the U.S putting an end to the arms ambargo. I have more hope on Viet Nam being able to produce radar, sonar, MALE UAV, anti-ship missile, SAM in the next 10 years than any fruitful military cooperation between U.S and Viet Nam in the next 20 years.



Vietnam has arms embargo too??...

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## Viet

szft517 said:


> How is your negotiation of *TPP*? Well, a complete equal relationship seems far away, though Vietnam participates TPP, unless Vietnam's competitiveness of domestic market is strong enough to fight against Japan, Australia in this TPP. I checked Vietnam's export structure, like China 10 years ago, mainly of which are primary product.
> 
> As far as I know, TPP was first established by Brunei, New Zealand, Chile and Singapore. As US's participation, it started to have extensive influences ever since. Why does not ASEAN as an entire unit to join in? Maybe you will get more negotiable strength and support.
> 
> Really, Japan's participation in TPP will affect China's international export market.


The U.S. uses TPP as a tool for her plan of economic hegemony in Asia, competing with Chinese influence. Actually it is a power play between America and China. Vietnamese economy is too small to make any impact.


szft517 said:


> Vietnam has arms embargo too??...


yes, uncle Sam holds arms embargo since the end of the US-Vietnam war. In public, they demand Vietnam to improve human rights first before embargo can be lifted. In secret talks, many believe they urge Vietnam to side in an alliance against China. That is something Vietnam is not willing to do.

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## StarCraft_ZT

Viet said:


> The U.S. uses TPP as a tool for her plan of economic hegemony in Asia, competing with Chinese influence. Actually it is a power play between America and China. Vietnamese economy is too small to make any impact.



Correct. But China is still on the weaker side against US in economic fields. So far, I havn't seen detailed plan or procedures to be implemented in this TPP group. I seriously doubt that if TPP really has such wide influence, or it is just a fragile framework. It could be very hard to have coordination and discuss among countries in different regions and levels, let alone a &#8220;all win&#8221; consensus. So finally it would be a unconsolidated organization. Viet's model should be Taiwan, South Korea that insist an independent economic policy, do not rely on any other country except the huge international market. Cooperation is based on an equal position with competitive market strength. Only you are strong, there is equal opportunity for you.



Viet said:


> yes, uncle Sam holds arms embargo since the end of the US-Vietnam war. In public, they demand Vietnam to improve human rights first before embargo can be lifted. In secret talks, many believe they urge Vietnam to side in an alliance against China. That is something Vietnam is not willing to do.



Human rights, old excuse, no surprise.

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## Viet

szft517 said:


> Correct. But China is still on the weaker side against US in economic fields. So far, I havn't seen detailed plan or procedures to be implemented in this TPP group. I seriously doubt that if TPP really has such wide influence, or it is just a fragile framework. It could be very hard to have coordination and discuss among countries in different regions and levels, let alone a &#8220;all win&#8221; consensus. So finally it would be a unconsolidated organization.
> 
> Viet's model should be *Taiwan*, South Korea that insist an independent economic policy, do not rely on any other country except the huge international market. Cooperation is based on an equal position with competitive market strength. Only you are strong, there is equal opportunity for you.


we will see how TPP develops. Vietnam hopes on more investments from America. In talk with Mr Obama in Washington, Vietnamese leadership has agreed to accelerate current negotiations of the Trans-Pacific Agreement (TPP) due to be completed by the year&#8217;s end. 

You are right, Taiwan, South Korea (and Singapore) serve as a economic model for Vietnam.


szft517 said:


> Human rights, old excuse, no surprise.


You see that Vietnam foreign policy is very reasonable and well-balanced towards China. China should act reasonable and balanced towards Vietnam, too.

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## Minjitta

Viet said:


> we will see how TPP develops. Vietnam hopes on more investments from America. In talk with Mr Obama in Washington, Vietnamese leadership has agreed to accelerate current negotiations of the Trans-Pacific Agreement (TPP) due to be completed by the years end.
> 
> You are right, Taiwan, South Korea (and Singapore) serve as a economic model for Vietnam.
> 
> *You see that Vietnam foreign policy is very reasonable and well-balanced towards China. China should act reasonable and balanced towards Vietnam, too*.


Wishful thinking, Vietnam is in a different situation then China Vietnam have to have balance her policy toward China, but knowing China with her bully attitude, China will not act reasonable toward Vietnam. In another words China dont respect Vietnam. Vietnam needed to find multiple ways to balance herself, then find ways to move away from China influence without force from other interest.


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## EastSea

It's interessant that Mr. Sang handed the copy of Letter HoChi Minh adressed to US president 1946 after Vietnam regained his Independence from France Colonie.

I think we (all Vietnamese with different policy opinions) have to learn more lessons from our history from time of Nguyen Dynasty until now.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Minjitta said:


> Wishful thinking, Vietnam is in a different situation then China Vietnam have to have balance her policy toward China, but knowing China with her bully attitude, China will not act reasonable toward Vietnam. *In another words China dont respect Vietnam.* Vietnam needed to find multiple ways to balance herself, then find ways to move away from China influence without force from other interest.



We do respect your government sometimes, at least they know where is their true position, while you Viet trolls are just laughing stock that we can spend some time to toy with you guys.


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## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We do respect your government sometimes, at least they know where is their true position, while you Viet trolls are just laughing stock that we can spend some time to toy with you guys.




What kind of position you like to such regime ? puppet ?


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## Minjitta

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We do respect your government *sometimes*, at least they know where is their true position, while you Viet trolls are just laughing stock that we can spend some time to toy with you guys.


Sometimes what the hell is sometimes, ok then, sometimes Vietnam consider your respect LOL other time we dont.
Tell me when your government respected Vietnam? All the news paper in Vietnam point that your government still continue bully Vietnam. when China get our of SCS and return all those Island China take in 78' and 88' then we might consider China respect Vietnam, as for now there are no respect from China, and Vietnam will proceed her policy toward China in that position.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Minjitta said:


> Sometimes what the hell is sometimes, ok then, sometimes Vietnam consider your respect LOL other time we dont.
> Tell me when your government respected Vietnam? All the news paper in Vietnam point that your government still continue bully Vietnam. when China get our of SCS and return all those Island China take in 78' and 88' then we might consider China respect Vietnam, as for now there are no respect from China, and Vietnam will proceed her policy toward China in that position.



We don't need your respect, we are only doing the good thing for our national sovereignty. 

Like or not, it is your problem.


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## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We don't need your respect, we are only doing the good thing for our national sovereignty.
> 
> Like or not, it is your problem.




Don't lie. Island belong to us, China can't swalow our Islands, let it to be dispute forever if it not solved under rules of internal laws.

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## ChineseTiger1986

EastSea said:


> Don't lie. Island belong to us, China can't swalow our Islands, *let it to be dispute forever if it not solved under rules of internal laws.*



What is the difference?


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## Rechoice

EastSea said:


> It's interessant that Mr. Sang handed the copy of Letter HoChi Minh adressed to US president 1946 after Vietnam regained his Independence from France Colonie.
> 
> I think we (all Vietnamese with different policy opinions) have to learn more lessons from our history from time of Nguyen Dynasty until now.

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## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> What is the difference?




stupid chinese can't understand, but others can.

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## Soryu

VPA's BMP-1 with new camo:

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## Soryu

*Russia to Hand Over &#8216;Black Hole&#8217; Sub to Vietnam in November*

_20:20 29/07/2013 - © RIA Novosti. Igor Chuprin_






MOSCOW, July 29 (RIA Novosti) &#8211; The first of six Russian submarines, dubbed by the US Navy as &#8220;black holes in the ocean&#8221; because they are nearly undetectable when submerged, will be delivered to Vietnam in November, the shipbuilder said Monday.

The Varshavyanka class (Project 636M) of diesel-electric submarines have very low noise emission and can hit targets at long distances without being detected by an enemy&#8217;s anti-submarine warfare assets.

&#8220;We are expecting the signing of the acceptance act and the sub&#8217;s sailing to Vietnam in November,&#8221; the press service of Admiralty Shipyards said from St. Petersburg.

The submarine successfully completed 100-day sea trials in July while the Vietnamese crew has been in training since April this year, the shipbuilder said in a statement.

&#8220;The vessel showed excellent maneuverability and reliable work of all mechanisms during the trials,&#8221; the statement said.

Vietnam ordered a fleet of six Russian-made submarines in 2009, seen as an effort to counterbalance China&#8217;s expanding maritime influence in the region. The contract, which also stipulates the training of Vietnamese submarine crews in Russia, is reportedly worth $2 billion.

All six boats are being built at Admiralty Shipyards. They are due for delivery by 2016.

The Varshavyanka class is an improvement on the Kilo, with more advanced stealth technology and an extended combat range. The vessels displace 3,100 tons, reach speeds of 20 knots, can dive to 300 meters and carry crews of 52 people.

The submarines, which feature 533-milimeter torpedo tubes and are armed with torpedoes, mines and Kalibr 3M54 (NATO SS-N-27 Sizzler) cruise missiles, are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.

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## Soryu

*Vietnam People Navy's DHC-6 *

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## EastSea

Japan Surveillance ship JCGS Kojima PL 21visited Tien Sa, Danang.

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## Minjitta

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We don't need your respect, we are only doing the good thing for our national sovereignty.
> 
> Like or not, it is your problem.


We don't give sh!t about your national sovereignty as long as it doesn't interfere ours, so keep your problems to yourself.

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## Minjitta

Soryu said:


> *Russia to Hand Over &#8216;Black Hole&#8217; Sub to Vietnam in November*
> 
> _20:20 29/07/2013 - © RIA Novosti. Igor Chuprin_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOSCOW, July 29 (RIA Novosti) &#8211; The first of six Russian submarines, dubbed by the US Navy as &#8220;black holes in the ocean&#8221; because they are nearly undetectable when submerged, will be delivered to Vietnam in November, the shipbuilder said Monday.
> 
> The Varshavyanka class (Project 636M) of diesel-electric submarines have very low noise emission and can hit targets at long distances without being detected by an enemy&#8217;s anti-submarine warfare assets.
> 
> &#8220;We are expecting the signing of the acceptance act and the sub&#8217;s sailing to Vietnam in November,&#8221; the press service of Admiralty Shipyards said from St. Petersburg.
> 
> The submarine successfully completed 100-day sea trials in July while the Vietnamese crew has been in training since April this year, the shipbuilder said in a statement.
> 
> &#8220;The vessel showed excellent maneuverability and reliable work of all mechanisms during the trials,&#8221; the statement said.
> 
> Vietnam ordered a fleet of six Russian-made submarines in 2009, seen as an effort to counterbalance China&#8217;s expanding maritime influence in the region. The contract, which also stipulates the training of Vietnamese submarine crews in Russia, is reportedly worth $2 billion.
> 
> All six boats are being built at Admiralty Shipyards. They are due for delivery by 2016.
> 
> The Varshavyanka class is an improvement on the Kilo, with more advanced stealth technology and an extended combat range. The vessels displace 3,100 tons, reach speeds of 20 knots, can dive to 300 meters and carry crews of 52 people.
> 
> The submarines, which feature 533-milimeter torpedo tubes and are armed with torpedoes, mines and Kalibr 3M54 (NATO SS-N-27 Sizzler) cruise missiles, are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine missions in relatively shallow waters.



It's hunting sea dogs (submarine) time.

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## Viet

translated from 
L&#361;ng Cú - Der noerdlichste Punkt Vietnams - Zwischen Traditionen und Moderne

In ancient times, from the tower Vietnamese watchers had a good view deep inside Chinese territory. They issued alarms if Chinese army was observed.


L&#361;ng Cú, the northernmost point of Vietnam








839 steps lead up the hill to the famous flag tower at 1,700 meters altitude, surrounded on three sides by China's territory. This Flag tower has a long history. The first tower at this place, made by wood, was already built nearly 1,000 years ago on the initiative of General Ly Thuong Ki&#7879;t. 

In 2002, the tower was completely demolished and replaced with a new one, and was inaugurated on the National Day, September 2010. The octagonal tower is 33 meters high and ten meters higher than its predecessor. The eight bronze drums show scenes from the history of the country and from the culture of the minorities living here.

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## Minjitta

L&#361;ng C&#361; is good for tourism other than it doesn't serve much purpose.

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## Viet

_one of the most unhappy moment in the history 
_


Vietnam remembers martyrs of 1984 border war 


Last Updated: Monday, July 15, 2013 09:10:00 Thanh Nien




_Veterans of a 1984 campaign against the invading Chinese place incense sticks on the tombs of unidentified comrades who died in the war. Photo by Truong Son
_

A prayer ceremony was held Friday to commemorate soldiers and civilians who died fighting Chinese troops to protect the northern border 29 years ago.

More than 200 veterans of the battle, known as campaign MB84, came to Vi Xuyen cemetery in the border province of Ha Giang to pay their respects.

The campaign began on July 12, 1984, to retake many mountainous areas that had been occupied by Chinese forces for a couple of months. More than 600 Vietnamese soldiers were killed on the first night.

The Chinese invasion began in April the same year with massive shelling of what are now Tuyen Quang, Ha Giang, Lang Son, Quang Ninh, Cao Bang, Lao Cai, Yen Bai, and Lai Chau Provinces.

Vietnam reclaimed part of the occupied areas in campaign MB84, but had to continue defending them from late 1984 to early 1987.

China stopped its attacks in December 1988 and withdrew troops the next September.

Unofficial statistics estimate China fired nearly 1.9 million artillery shells into Vietnam, including up to 61,000 in a day.

Many Vietnamese civilians had also been killed during a 17-day war started by China in February 1979 when it sent more than 600,000 troops into Vietnam.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> _one of the most unhappy moment in the history
> _
> 
> 
> Vietnam remembers martyrs of 1984 border war


Everything turn out like that when we met our enemy at hard time in our history, it's also tragic and dramatic moment as well.

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## Viet

_There are increasing signs that Vietnam leadership is running out of patience and wants to adopt a more aggressive approach in the dispute with China, openly supporting the Philippines stance as well as seeking a closer tie with Japan and America._



Philippines, Vietnam take China hedges

_Southeast Asia Aug 2, '13 Asia Times Online
By Richard Javad Heydarian 
_





_VIETNAM'S SUPPORT. Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh meets with Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario on August 1. Photo by Arcel Cometa
_

MANILA - Soon after the US and China used a high-level strategic and economic dialogue in mid-July to underscore the importance both attach to their relationship, the Philippines and Vietnam made their own pitch to court great power support amid ongoing and, in certain maritime areas, intensifying territorial conflicts with China. 

While Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang made a symbolic visit to the White House on July 25, an occasion where both countries agreed to move closer towards a full-fledged strategic partnership, the Philippines welcomed Japan's increasingly emboldened leader, Shinzo Abe, who has vowed to strengthen Tokyo's strategic depth in Southeast Asia. 

Despite growing efforts by regional actors, namely China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), to rein in brewing maritime conflicts in the South China Sea, the evolving disputes represent an intractable challenge to regional security and threaten to escalate into full-blown conflict. 

China recently agreed to restart negotiations over a code of conduct (CoC) to peacefully resolve maritime disputes, but both the Philippines and Vietnam have pressured China to address the issue more expediently and within the framework of international law. At the same time, they have both welcomed a deeper US military commitment and expanded strategic ties with a resurgent Japan as their primary hedging tactic. 

*Sang to Washington*

Sang's visit came after President Barack Obama extended an invitation to his Vietnamese counterpart in early July, reflecting Washington's desire to place Hanoi at the center of its "pivot" strategy in East Asia. The visit - only the second to Washington by a Vietnamese head of state since the normalization of ties in 1995 - was exceptional in both its tone and timing. 

It also came on the heels of Sang's trip to China in late June, when the two sides signed symbolic agreements, including the establishment of a hotline to manage tensions in the South China Sea. 

More crucially, Sang's visit came in the upbeat wake of Obama's confab with Chinese leader Xi Jinping at the Sunnylands Ranch in California. Along with the strategic and economic dialogue held in July, the meetings stoked fears of strategic alienation among the US's East Asian allies and sent mixed messages about America's commitment to deterring Chinese maritime assertiveness. 

Against that background, Sang's visit carried a number of key strategic implications: 

*&#8226; Vietnam has emerged as an increasingly important component within the US's 21st century strategy for the Pacific;
&#8226; Washington is intent on elevating its bilateral ties with Hanoi into a full-fledged strategic partnership, including an eventual removal of its arms embargo;
&#8226; Vietnam is determined to utilize its diversified set of foreign relations, especially those with the world's sole superpower in Washington, to keep its giant northern neighbor at bay. 
*
Recognizing the "extraordinarily complex history" between the two countries, Obama and Sang focused on major strategic issues such as trade and security. On top of their agenda was the re-affirmation of both sides' commitment to finalize the US-sponsored Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) preferential trade pact, which faces stiff competition from the China-backed Comprehensive Economic Partnership for East Asia. 






_VN President Sang delivers speech at US centre of Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) on July 25 during his official visit to the US._


Although China remains Vietnam's top trade partner, economic relations with the US have flourished in recent years. Determined to reassert US centrality in East Asia, Obama has been at pains to strengthen the economic pillar of his administration's "pivot" strategy, thus his emphasis on expressing both Washington's and Hanoi's commitment to "the ambitious goal of completing [the TPP] before the end of the year". 

To placate his Republican Party critics who have accused the White House of acting soft on Vietnam's human rights record, Obama reportedly had some pointed discussions with his Vietnamese counterpart. It was clear to most onlookers, however, that strategic concerns topped both leaders' agenda. 

With the agreement to establish a "comprehensive partnership" with the US, a step above the mere normalization of bilateral ties, Sang's visit marked a new milestone towards developing an institutionalized strategic partnership, as trade and security issues pull the two one-time adversaries closer together than ever before. 

In a telling sign of Vietnam's determination to solicit Washington's support for its claims in the South China Sea, Sang reached out to multiple centers of influence in the US capital, ranging from the White House - where Obama called for calm and non-use of force in resolving disputes - to both houses of congress, the State Department and the influential Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) think tank. 

Secretary of State John Kerry, a Vietnam War veteran, eagerly welcomed the Vietnamese leader, praising how far the two countries had come since the dark years of confrontation and how the future bodes well for bilateral relations. "Forty-five years ago, hundreds of thousands of Americans were fighting in the fields and rivers of Vietnam," Kerry remarked during his meeting with Sang. "Today hundreds of thousands of us are visiting its market places and its historic sites. So we have come a long way." 

In response, Sang made a full-scale endorsement for deepening bilateral ties, emphasizing in particular how his country believes "major powers, including the United States, have an important role and responsibility in dealing with hotspots in the region such as the East Sea - East China Sea" and how Vietnam "always attaches importance to the relations with the United States, which [it] views as a leading partner". 

During Sang's speech at CSIS, he re-affirmed Vietnam's commitment to the peaceful resolution of disputes in the South China Sea along the Indonesia-sponsored "Six-Point Principles" and the United Nations' Convention on the Law of the Sea. Moreover, he made it clear that Vietnam continues to oppose China's sweeping maritime claims, including the "nine-dashline doctrine" - referring to how China demarcates its claims in the South China Sea - and how it will firmly stand by its own territorial claims. 

"We cannot find any legal foundation or scientific basis for such a claim and therefore it is the consistent policy of Vietnam to oppose the nine-dash-line plan by China," Sang said, underscoring the importance Vietnam places on multilateral mechanisms to resolve the disputes. 

*Abe in Manila*

At the same time, the Philippines, the other Southeast Asian state locked in territorial disputes with China, has re-enforced its bid to solicit more external support from Pacific powers, including an increasingly assertive Japan under the new administration of Shinzo Abe. 

Having successfully consolidated his party's control in both houses of the Japanese parliament (Diet) after a solid performance in the just concluded upper house elections, Abe headed for Manila, signaling the strategic importance Tokyo will place on Southeast Asia during his term. Given his parliamentary dominance, Abe is in a strong position to redefine Japan's regional role, especially in terms of assistance to weaker US partners such as the Philippines. 

Japan is the Philippines' largest trading partner and top source of Official Development Aid, with both sides forging a strategic partnership in September 2011. Japan has since provided among other things, communication systems and 10 multi-role response vessels for the Philippine Coast Guard (PGC). Enhancement of the PGC's capabilities has been a cornerstone of Manila's efforts to improve its minimum deterrence capability in disputed waters of the South China Sea. 

Although both sides fell short of openly naming China during Abe's visit, they vowed to deepen their maritime cooperation. That pledge followed a visit by Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera to Manila in June, which culminated in a strong joint statement calling for "further cooperation in terms of the defense of remote islands ... the defense of territorial seas as well as protection of maritime interests". 

"Both countries share a strategic interest of making the Asia-Pacific region a free and open region, not by coercion or intimidation, but by the rule of law," Abe said during a press conference in Manila, rhetorically drawing the Philippines into his envisioned "Asian security diamond" alliance of like-minded democratic countries in the Pacific. Critics have referred to the policy as a thinly veiled strategy of containment against China. 

Philippine President Benigno Aquino echoed similar positions during the meeting. "Advancing our common advocacy for responsible action from international players" is only possible through "upholding the rule of law in international affairs, and by finding just and peaceful solutions to our territorial disputes and maritime concerns", Aquino said. 

Beyond the vaulted rhetoric and engagement proposals, what is increasingly clear is that while the Philippines and Vietnam have cautiously welcomed China's agreement to negotiate a peaceful resolution to territorial disputes through a code of conduct, the two Southeast Asian states will also strive to deepen ties with external powers to fortify their positions in the South China Sea and press for a multilateral resolution to the simmering disputes. 

_Richard Javad Heydarian is a Manila-based foreign affairs analyst focusing on the South China Sea and international security issues. _

Asia Times Online :: Philippines, Vietnam take China hedges


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## Viet

a news from last year, but I think it is not posted yet in this thread. For those who died defending our country.



Vietnam inaugurates victory monument over China

Thanh Nien News





_Military officers and soldiers burn incenses at the victory stele in Lang Son Province_


_The stele is located on a 200 square meter plot in Pa Pach Village, Binh Trung Commune, Cao Loc District, Lang Son Province.

The construction of the memorial site costed nearly VND600 million ($29,000). Funds for the project were donated by current and former officials and soldiers from Division 337, the Lang Son Provincial Government and the First Military Zone&#8217;s High Command.

An inauguration ceremony for the monument was held during the 65th observance of the War Invalids' and Martyrs' Day.

According to Colonel Pham Van Trung, head of Unit 337, the monument will provide a pilgrimage site for generations of the Division's veterans, as well as a point of inspiration for Vietnam's traditional values.

In February 1979, Division 337 was mobilized to the northern border after Chinese troops invaded and ordered to block an attack on Highway 1B.

After 12 days of fierce fighting, the Vietnamese soldiers managed to block the enemy&#8217;s attempt to isolate Lang Son Province.

More than 700 soldiers from Division 337 died during the fight. Some were only 19 years old.
_

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## NiceGuy

*Vietnam to begin the construction of repairing engine project* 

Phase 1 of the project is expected to last for 3 years (2013-2015), divided into 5 steps: building infrastructure, engineering, procurement of machinery, technical equipment, materials, learning , sent staff training and acquire repairing technological lines , renovate and purchase equipment, engines, repair tests in some engine plant is equipped for combat aircraft , Armed helicopters.

This is one of the key projects of the Ministry of Defense and the military departments, contributing to enhance capacity of engine repair, ensure the engine needs training and ready to fight and to facilitate for the factory to access to modern repaoring technology.


> QUÂN S&#7920; » TIN T&#7912;C
> Ngày &#273;&#259;ng : 09:00 03/08/2013 (GMT+7)
> 
> *Vi&#7879;t Nam kh&#7903;i công d&#7921; án s&#7917;a ch&#7919;a &#273;&#7897;ng c&#417; tiêm kích*
> 
> Ngày 1/8, t&#7841;i Nhà máy A42, Quân ch&#7911;ng Phòng không - Không quân kh&#7903;i công giai &#273;o&#7841;n 1 c&#7911;a D&#7921; án s&#7917;a ch&#7919;a &#273;&#7897;ng c&#417; máy bay chi&#7871;n &#273;&#7845;u hi&#7879;n &#273;&#7841;i.
> Vi

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## Viet

some recent major events 

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi visits Hanoi from August 3-6, here in talks with Vietnamese FM Pham Binh Minh














New Zealand Governor-General on state visit to Vietnam from August 3-8
Both countries aim to increase visit exchanges and facilitate their trade and investment activities to raise two-way trade to US$1 billion by 2015.














Politburo member To Huy Rua visit to Japan on August 1-5, here in talk with PM Abe, and Foreign Minister Fumio Kashida













French Minister of Foreign Affairs Laurent Fabius in Hanoi on Aug 3-5, both sides have agreed to upgrade bilateral relations to a strategic partnership

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## ViXuyen

Just read on the news, the Ministry of Defence has begun his Europe tour from Aug 6-21 to Russia, Bulgaria, Poland, and Netherlands. Will there be anything good out of this?


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## Rechoice

ViXuyen said:


> Just read on the news, the Ministry of Defence has begun his Europe tour from Aug 6-21 to Russia, Bulgaria, Poland, and *Netherlands*. Will there be anything good out of this?



should be a new purchasing warship from Netherlands ?


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## NiceGuy

*Vietnamese officers and servicemen will train in Russia*

16:22 07/08/2013
MOSCOW, August 7 (Itar-Tass) - Vietnamese officers and servicemen will train in Russia, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Wednesday.
&#8220;We discussed plans to synchronize supplies of arms and military hardware, training of specialists and approved a 5-year plan to train Vietnamese officers,&#8221; Shoigu said.
The talks were rather substantial and focused on different issues. &#8220;Our cooperation with Vietnam has a long history,&#8221; the minister said.
&#8220;*Of course, cooperation between the navies is very important. *We riveted attention to it as well,&#8221; Shoigu said.

He stressed that the Russian and Vietnamese industries showed interest in developing military-technical cooperation. &#8220;Our supplies to Vietnam are aimed at organizing service centers in Vietnam. Our industry and our Vietnamese colleagues seek to develop such cooperation,&#8221; Shoigu said.
The Vietnamese minister said he &#8220;is sure that close cooperation with Russia will be strengthened to ensure global stability&#8221;. He confirmed that strategic partnership &#8220;will make cooperation between the two countries successful&#8221;.
He said Vietnam &#8220;invites veterans for the rest. This year we&#8217;ve received the first group of Russian veterans. The others will be invited in October to November&#8221;.
Fung Kwan Thani said he shared his Russian colleague&#8217;s view that the navies&#8217; training, the strategic dialogue, military researches and the exchange of delegations &#8220;are priorities of our cooperation&#8221;. &#8220;This will allow Vietnam and Russia to strengthen and expand contacts for the sake of peace and stability in the region,&#8221; he added.
Ð&#732;Ð¢ÐÐ*-Ð¢ÐÐ¡Ð¡ / PDA Ð&#8217;ÐµÑ&#8364;ÑÐ¸Ñ

Very very bad news for VN's enemies, seem like we will receive all kinds of best Russia weapons and get back to the Emperor of South position in next decade

Who owe VN an apology in history should say it now before too late 

VN-Russia soldiers stand side by side, just like the old time

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## Viet

_Vietnamese Minister of National Defence, General Phung Quang Thanh reviews the guard of honour during a welcoming ceremony at Moscow on August 7 (Vietnam News)._






_Russia-Vietnam defence summit_

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## Viet

earlier this year in Thailand...






_Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh met with Thai Vice Admiral Taratorn Kajitsuwan, Commander of the Third Area of the Royal Thai Navy, during his visit to Thailand on March 12-13._

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## BoXilai



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## Viet

_Singaporean Ministry of Defence&#8217;s Training and Doctrine Deputy Commander Colonel Wong Yu Han in Hanoi on August 13 2013._







_Deputy Defence Minister Vinh paid a cordial visit to Japanese Defence Minister Itsunori Onodera in Tokyo on August 9 2013(Photo:VNA)_


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## Viet

_The third of the six submarines that Russia is building for Vietnam named HQ-184 Hai Phong will be launched later this month, according to the Voice of Russia. 

_
Russia to soon complete third submarine for Vietnam -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)

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## Viet

_Senior lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, Chief of Vietnam People's Army on Monday received General Eiji Kimizuka, Chief of Staff of the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force who is paying a visit to Vietnam August 12, 2013. Photo: vietnambreakingnews.com
_





















National defense between Vietnam- Japan takes effect


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## Viet

_Exercise on defensive area in Quang Tri 2013_



















































Exercise on defensive area in Quang Tri 2013

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## ViXuyen




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## Fsjal

ViXuyen said:


>



Where's this? In a museum?


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## ViXuyen

Fsjal said:


> Where's this? In a museum?



In a workshop, it is a mini submarine

Displacement : 12 tons
Maximum depth : 50 m
Speed: 40 knots/hour
Range: 800 km
Max days in operation at sea : 15 days


Chào m

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## Minjitta

ViXuyen said:


> In a workshop, it is a mini submarine
> 
> Displacement : 12 tons
> Maximum depth : 50 m
> Speed: 40 knots/hour
> Range: 800 km
> Max days in operation at sea : 15 days
> 
> 
> Chào m



Look like she dressed up with primer paint, ready for stealth paint.

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## ViXuyen

Minjitta said:


> Look like she dressed up with primer paint, ready for stealth paint.


lol, the sub is just a child's toy for display, no need to get serious


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## Major Shaitan Singh

MOSCOW, August 21 (RIA Novosti)  Russia will deliver another batch of 12 Sukhoi Su-30MK2 fighter aircraft under a recent contract worth about $450 million, a defense industry source told RIA Novosti on Wednesday.
The contract was reportedly signed last week, and the Su-30s are expected to be delivered to Vietnam in 2014-2015.

A similar modification, priced at $35-37 million per plane, had been earlier sold to China, the source said. Russia has delivered a total of 20 Su-30 fighter jets under two previous contracts signed in 2009 and 2010.

Su-30MK2 is an advanced two-seat version of the Su-27 Flanker multirole fighter with upgraded electronics and capability to launch anti-ship missiles. Combat aircraft remain the core of the Russian arms exports. Sukhoi Su-27/30 Flanker and Mikoyan MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter jets, Mil Mi-24/35 helicopter gunships, Mi-17 combat transport helicopters and Kamov Ka-28/31 naval helicopters are among the best-selling items in the aviation segment of arms exports.

Russia to Deliver 12 Su-30 Fighter Jets to Vietnam

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## Viet

nice news. Russia media speculates Vietnam can buy additional 18 SU-30K from Belarus. But what about other projects such as subs and destroyers?

Vietnam bestellt russische Su-30-Kampfflugzeuge für 450 Mio. Dollar | Sicherheit und Militär | RIA Novosti

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## Fsjal

Isn't that an Su-30MKI, by the looks of the canards?


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## Srinivas

Fsjal said:


> Isn't that an Su-30MKI, by the looks of the canards?



Su 30 MKI varies in avionics and other subsystems. 



> The aircraft is tailor-made for Indian specifications and integrates Indian systems and avionics as well as French and Israeli subsystems.[11] It has abilities similar to the Sukhoi Su-35 with which it shares many features and components

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## kurup

Good news for the Vietnamese Air Force .

Su30 is a very capable aircraft .

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## Viet

Fsjal said:


> Isn't that an Su-30MKI, by the looks of the canards?


canards? With its improved avionics, the MK2 is designed as a maritime strike aircraft. You will see them more in the SC Sea.

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## kurup

Fsjal said:


> Isn't that an Su-30MKI, by the looks of the canards?



There are many flanker versions which employ canards . 

Su35 , Su37 and different variants based on MKI ( for Malayasia , Russia , Algeria ,etc ) have canards .

The one on the picture is not a MKI . IAF does not use such a camo .

The camo looks like a Russian one .

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## EastSea

Preparing for worst situations.


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## ViXuyen

I use Google translate

Nederlandse werf bouwt twee oorlogsschepen voor Vietnam - nrc.nl



> Damen Shipyards has reached an agreement with Vietnam for the supply of two corvettes to the Vietnamese Navy, as the Gorinchem yard confirmed today.
> The deal, which by the end of this year to be clinched, officially by both countries, the Dutch business community, especially the shipyard of Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (DSNS) in Flushing, pose thousand man-years of work.
> 
> On the value of the contract does not disclose Damen, but an insider says that that can reach half a billion euros. The Dutch government is involved in funding.
> 
> Damen 'hopeful' on more orders
> The contract involves the construction of two corvettes of the SIGMA-class, type 9814 - which is a length of 98 meters and a width of 14 meters. The ships have a potent equipment including a Oto Melara rapid fire gun, anti-ship missiles and launch vertically Mica missiles. Within the transaction, Thales Netherlands the intended supplier of electronic equipment, including radar, sensors, fire-control systems and equipment for command and control.
> 
> About the building program are no details made public, but it seems logical that one of the two SIGMA's on the Flushing site is being built and the second ship in a Vietnamese shipyard. Damen's been almost twenty years in the Southeast Asian country, where the company five shipbuilding and repair yards and operates a large yard at Haiphong under development. Damen says, to have more Vietnamese orders. Hopeful "
> 
> Earlier corvettes to Morocco and Indonesia
> The purchase of two modern corvettes fits into the ambitious program of modernization of the armed forces of Vietnam in the light of the assertive foreign policy and military rapid expansion of neighboring China. Vietnam and China dispute include the sovereignty of islands in the South China Sea, including large oil reserves are suspected. Vietnam was decades big buyer of Russian arms industry, which is why the supply of Western, Dutch, defense may be called remarkable.
> 
> The SIGMA is the export market as a sales success. Previously sold the yard three such corvettes and five to Morocco to Indonesia, in several varieties. More countries have shown interest in naval vessels.

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## EastSea

*Dutch Report: Vietnam buy two Sigma class corvettes*
08/23/2013 10:35

(TNO) Dutch Media today (22.8) announced information from shipbuilder Damen, says it has reached an agreement with Vietnam on the closing to build two Sigma class corvettes. The contract is expected to be concluded by the end of this year, according to the shipbuilding company in the Netherlands.









> Báo Hà Lan: Vi&#7879;t Nam mua hai tàu h&#7897; t&#7889;ng l&#7899;p Sigma
> 23/08/2013 10:35
> (TNO) Truy&#7873;n thông Hà Lan hôm 22.8 d&#7851;n thông báo t&#7915; hãng &#273;óng tàu Damen cho bi&#7871;t h&#7885; &#273;ã &#273;&#7841;t &#273;&#432;&#7907;c th&#7887;a thu&#7853;n v&#7899;i Vi&#7879;t Nam v&#7873; vi&#7879;c &#273;óng hai tàu h&#7897; t&#7889;ng l&#7899;p Sigma.
> 
> H&#7907;p &#273;&#7891;ng d&#7921; ki&#7871;n s&#7869; &#273;&#432;&#7907;c ký k&#7871;t chính th&#7913;c vào cu&#7889;i n&#259;m nay, theo công ty &#273;óng tàu &#7903; Hà Lan.

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## ViXuyen

2 SIGMA ships for $670 million USD is a much better deal than the 4 Gepards for $600 million USD. With the 2nd SIGMA built in Viet Nam, we will acquire modern warship building technologies. Being able to build the ship structure is very important because we can speed up the time to complete the project unlike the Gepard project which the Russian drag out for 5 years and we could not do anything about it.

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## Viet

nice warship from the Dutch indeed. Do we get any discount?






Sigma class corvette


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## Viet

_Dutch Defence Minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaer (left) welcomed Vietnamese Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh in Amsterdam August 19, 2013 (Photo:qdnd.vn)
_







_Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh paid a working visit to Poland from August 11-14, 2013 at the invitation of his Polish counterpart Tomasz Siemoniak._

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> _*Dutch Defence Minister Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaer (left) welcomed Vietnamese Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh in Amsterdam August 19, 2013* (Photo:qdnd.vn)
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh paid a working visit to Poland from August 11-14, 2013 at the invitation of his Polish counterpart Tomasz Siemoniak._



Good news and Big Deal ...



> *Nederlandse werf bouwt twee oorlogsschepen voor Vietnam*
> 
> 
> Damen Shipyards heeft een akkoord bereikt met Vietnam voor de levering van twee korvetten aan de Vietnamese marine, zo heeft de Gorinchemse werf vandaag bevestigd.
> 
> De deal, die voor het einde van dit jaar officieel door beide landen moet worden beklonken, zou het Nederlandse bedrijfsleven, vooral de werf van Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (DSNS) in Vlissingen, duizend manjaren werk opleveren.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Damen heeft 'goede hoop' op meer orders*
> 
> Het contract behelst de bouw van twee korvetten van de SIGMA-klasse, type 9814 &#8211; wat staat voor een lengte van 98 meter en een breedte van 14 meter. De schepen krijgen een potente uitrusting met onder andere een Oto Melara snelvuurkanon, antischipraketten en verticaal te lanceren Mica luchtdoelraketten. Binnen de transactie is Thales Nederland de beoogde leverancier van elektronische uitrusting, waaronder radar, sensoren, vuurleidingsystemen en apparatuur voor commandovoering.
> 
> Over het bouwprogramma zijn geen nadere gegevens openbaar gemaakt, maar het lijkt logisch dat één van de twee SIGMA&#8217;s op de Vlissingse werf wordt gebouwd en het tweede schip op een Vietnamese werf. Damen is al bijna twintig jaar actief in het Zuid-Oost Aziatische land, waar de onderneming vijf scheepsbouw- en reparatiewerven exploiteert en een grote werf bij Haiphong in ontwikkeling heeft. Damen zegt ,,goede hoop&#8221; te hebben op meer Vietnamese orders.
> Eerder al korvetten naar Marokko en Indonesië
> 
> De aanschaf van twee moderne korvetten past in het ambitieuze moderniseringsprogramma van de strijdkrachten van Vietnam in het licht van de assertieve buitenlandpolitiek en snelle militaire uitbreiding van buurland China. Vietnam en China betwisten onder meer de soevereiniteit van eilandjes in de Zuid-Chinese Zee, waaronder grote olievoorraden worden vermoed. Vietnam was decennia lang grootafnemer van de Russische wapenindustrie, reden waarom de leverantie van westers, Nederlands, defensiematerieel opmerkelijk mag heten.
> 
> De SIGMA geldt op de exportmarkt als een verkoopsucces. Eerder verkocht de werf drie van dergelijke korvetten aan Marokko en vijf aan Indonesië, in diverse varianten. Meer landen hebben interesse in de marineschepen getoond.
> 
> Nederlandse werf bouwt twee oorlogsschepen voor Vietnam - nrc.nl

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## ViXuyen

Jane's Defense also confirms the contract of these SIGMA corvettes. This is BIG because Viet Nam can buy from the Dutch then we will have no problem buying from the French either.

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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Jane's Defense also confirms the contract of these SIGMA corvettes. This is BIG because Viet Nam can buy from the Dutch then we will have no problem buying from the French either.


nice...Vietnam must put more pressure on Russia urging them to let the next Gepards to be built in Vietnam. I remember that the Russian defence minister gave a promise.

I post the link you reported.






Vietnam to order Dutch corvettes - IHS Jane's 360

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## Viet

_Australian guided missile frigate HMAS Ballarat pays a visit to Vietnam from August 22 to 26, 2013_


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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> nice...Vietnam must put more pressure on Russia urging them to let the next Gepards to be built in Vietnam. I remember that the Russian defence minister gave a promise.
> 
> I post the link you reported.
> 
> Vietnam to order Dutch corvettes - IHS Jane's 360


There is no need to put pressure on the Russian to have the next Gepard built in Viet Nam because SIGMA is much more advanced shipbuilding technique. This contract will signal to the Russian that Viet Nam can buy weapons from someone other than the Russian themselves.

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## ViXuyen

Cam Ranh base. I was here in 2007 but was not allow to go in and explore

Russia, Vietnam & Cam Ranh | Open Source IMINT


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## ViXuyen

Launch of the 3rd Kilo-class

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## Soryu

Nice, and now, we can stand in same rank with other navy like: Singapore, Indonesia, Malay and ThaiLand.

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## Minjitta

ViXuyen said:


> There is no need to put pressure on the Russian to have the next Gepard built in Viet Nam because SIGMA is much more advanced shipbuilding technique. This contract will signal to the Russian that Viet Nam can buy weapons from someone other than the Russian themselves.


Is it possible to have Russia weapons on Sigma



ViXuyen said:


> lol, the sub is just a child's toy for display, no need to get serious



Lol I know I was being sarcastic, this little sub built by individual.

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## Viet

Vietnam establishes seaplane squadron


English.news.cn 2013-09-06 12:10:44 












HANOI, Sept. 6 (Xinhua) -- Vietnamese Navy held a ceremony to announce the decision of forming a DHC-6 seaplane squadron, which is supposed to manage all relevant combat-ready and training activities, local Tien Phong (Pioneer) news website reported on Friday.

At the ceremony held on Thursday in northern Vietnamese city of Hai Phong, Vice Admiral Pham Ngoc Minh, the Navy's chief of staff, said the establishment of the DHC-6 seaplane squadron, along with the EC-225 helicopter squadron, the Navy's first squadron formed on Dec. 25, 2011, are steps to building up the modern regular Navy and fulfilling the task of safeguarding *Vietnam's sovereignty over territorial waters and islands*.

Viking Air aircraft manufacturer and its subsidiary Pacific Aviation held a graduation ceremony for 8 Vietnamese pilots mastering DHC-6 Twin Otter Series 400, also known as the Guardian 400, in Canada on July 10.

In May 2010, Vietnam's Navy signed with Viking Air a contract on buying six Guardian 400s. According to the Canadian manufacturer, the seaplanes is fully-equipped for transport, maritime patrol and surveillance, resupply, search and rescue purposes.

Of the total, three are specially equipped for maritime patrol and coastal surveillance.

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## Viet

Second Batch of Gepard Equipped with Sthil-1 Missile

Saturday, July 13, 2013




Project 11661K Gepard 3.9 (image : QDND)

According to a spokesman of the Russian shipyard Zelenodolsk, the plant will continue to launch missile corvette pair of Project 11661K Gepard 3.9 for Vietnam Navy in September.

Two ships next Gepard 3.9 (the third and fourth) for Vietnam Navy under the contract to provide additional was signed in 2012 between Russia and Vietnam, after the ship Gepard 3.9 that is capable of performing well for operation in coastal waters in the South China Sea.

Regarding anti-ship weapons systems, two new Gepard ships remain compared to the previous 2 Gepard 3.9 Vietnam Navy (including 8 subsonic anti-ship missile Kh-35 Uran-E, 130 km range) .

For additional capabilities for anti-submarine fleet, 2 Gepard warships equipped with sonar systems, and 2x4 anti-submarine torpedo tubes are emitted from the rear flank of the ship . At the stern there is a landing zone for a helicopter anti-submarine Ka-28 or Ka-31. However hangar containing helicopter has been removed.

As revealed by Zelenodolsk plant, two Gepard 3.9 new corvettes will be delivered to the Vietnam Navy in 2016 and and 2017.
























_Shtil-1 medium-range shipborned anti aircraft missile (photos)_

Asian Defense: Second Batch of Gepard Equipped with Sthil-1 Missile

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## Minjitta

Soryu said:


> Nice, and now, we can stand in same rank with other navy like: Singapore, Indonesia, Malay and ThaiLand.


heheh but this is not our ultimate goals. Our sea territories are much bigger, we needed much bigger naval then other ASEAN nations.

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## Soryu

Minjitta said:


> heheh but this is not our ultimate goals. Our sea territories are much bigger, we needed much bigger naval then other ASEAN nations.



Well, I think "stronger" will be correct term with us

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## Nike

Soryu said:


> Well, I think "stronger" will be correct term with us



Not really i think, Indonesia had more bigger aspirations and truthful reasons to have the most Sophisticated and largest Naval Forces in ASEAN  and Indonesia have more money to back it up


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## EastSea

double post.


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## EastSea

new navy Amphibious assault landing ship.

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## cnleio

Su-30mkv cockpit view









Vietnam Coast Gard

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## cnleio



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## cnleio

The Sukhoi collection of the VPAF:

Su-30MK2 (935th Fighter Regiment)






Su-27SK/UBK (currently operated by the 940th Fighter Regiment, formerly belonged to the 935th)

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## cnleio

Truong Sa Lon (Big Spratly) island from Su-30MK2 cockpit:

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## Fsjal

cnleio said:


>



Are those guys in the blue camo, marines?


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## cnleio

The T54M3 tank(deep-modernized prototype by Israel) fire test:











Fsjal said:


> Are those guys in the blue camo, marines?


Yes, Vietnamese members ever told me they'r all Marines.

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## Viet

interesting move from Singapore: they agreed to cooperate with Vietnamese submarine force.


http://nhandan.com.vn/en/politics/e...singapore-co-operate-in-submarine-rescue.html





_Commander of the Vietnamese People&#8217;s Navy Admiral Nguyen Van Hien (left) and Singaporean Chief of Navy Ng Chee Peng_

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## Soryu

madokafc said:


> Not really i think, Indonesia had more bigger aspirations and truthful reasons to have the most Sophisticated and largest Naval Forces in ASEAN  and Indonesia have more money to back it up



I agree with you, Indonesia will have largest Naval forces in ASEAN. But I mean "strong", not "big", we need strongest naval force for protect our sea ...

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## Viet

some recent events






_Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera visits his Vietnam counterpart, General Phung Quang Thanh, in Hanoi on September 16._







_Admiral Robert J. Papp, Commandant of the US Coast Guard at the Ministry of National Defences Headquarters on September 6th._







_PM Nguyen Tan Dung (R) and Singaporean PM Lee Hsien Loong agreed both countries to establish strategic partnership. Photo (VGP)_







_Vietnamese President Sang arrived in Budapest on a 3 day state visit to Hungary, September 16, 2013_

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## cnleio

Vietnam Su-30mk2v

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## NiceGuy

Russia,* VietNam* to participate in NAMEXPO-2013 in India
Posted on September 23, 2013 by Brittius





India's first naval and shipbuilding exhibition NAMEXPO-2013 opens in the city of Kochi in the southern state of Kerala on Monday. Participants in the show are as follows: Russia, Australia, Denmark, France, Germany, Japan, Sweden, the Republic of South Africa, Singapore, the United States, Britain, the United Arab Emirates, and *Vietnam*.

A Russian delegation is led by Alexander Titov, Representative of the Federal Service for Technical Military Cooperation to India.
Russia to participate in NAMEXPO-2013 in India | Brittius.com

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## EastSea

Russia began to build 2 new Gepard ships to Vietnam. 


RIA Novosti news agency said the Russian shipbuilding company has started to build 2 new Gepard class warships for Navy Vietnam on 24/9.





Pair most modern warship Dinh Tien Hoang (front) and Ly Thai To (after) is to patrol and protect maritime rights of Vietnam.

Nga


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## Soryu

Joint patrol by VPA and PLA on Vietnam - China border


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## Viet

pics from the 3 new patrol vessels of Vietnam Marine Police: CSB 8003, CSB 2015 and CSB 2016

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## Viet

recent events






_a delegation of the Press and Information Department under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Democratic People&#8217;s Republic of Korea (DPRK), led by its Director Jong Tong Hak, on their working visit to Vietnam, September 27, 2013_






_Chairman of the Indian Chiefs of Staff Committee, Air Chief Marshal Norman Anil Kumar Browne meets Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff of the Viet Nam People's Army, in New Delhi,September 23, 2013&#12290;_






_Vietnam and Laos armies agreed to increase press cooperation, Vientiane, Laos, on September 24th._






_Senior Lieutenant General Le Huu Duc, Deputy Defence Minister, received the visiting General William Fraser, Commander of the US Transportation Command at the Headquarters of the Ministry of National Defence on September 20th._

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## Viet

a vessel of Border Guard on patrol

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## BoQ77

Vietnam show their interest in Bal-E coastal defense system.
And will make themselve the subsonic antiship missile KH-35EV with range upto 260km, could sink surface warships upto 5,000 ton

The KH-35EV missiles have applications on many launching platforms of Vietnam's air, land, naval force :
- High-speed Molniya Tarantul class
- Gepard 3.9 frigate
- Coastal Defense system 
- Aircraft

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## NiceGuy

VietNammese 7/10/2013

*Vietnam to produce missile warships Gepard 39*

Gepard corvette 39 is a very reliable, easily standardized and application of new production technologies





Vietnam to produce missile warships Gepard 39
In an interview with Business Online starred in the groundbreaking ceremony for battleship 39 Gepard submarine hunting for HQVN on Wednesday 24/9, He stressed that Rudenko, the performance characteristics of 2 wonderful first ship Gepard 39 HQ 011 and HQ 012 Dinh Tien Hoang Ly Thai warranty combined with professional factory A. M Gorky for this ship was really a green light for new cooperation projects with Vietnam in the Navy like his laiTheo Rudenko, Gepard corvette 39 is a very reliable, easily standardized and application of new production technologies Gepard corvette 39 is very reliable, easily standardized and application of new production technologies ( Artwork) contrast,* Vietnam has launched the project to produce ammunition needed for ship*. 

This will allow the plant Zelenodolsk warship development standards of this project and noted that packing loatCan, Russia is helping Vietnam in development projects of local anti-ship missile Kh named 35EV ( V variant for Vietnam ) emphasized that Business Online, in the long run, Vietnam is an independent desire to build warships escorted 39 Gepard in the country, that the predicted Ba Son shipyard in the City will assume responsibility nayTrong ceremony paired corvettes 39 Gepard next on Tuesday 24/9 last, Deputy Director of Shipyard Zelenodolsk Sergei Rudenko indicate that, Vietnam is a promising partner infrastructure in Vietnam allow them ( Vietnam ) may play at least a few pairs of vessels (other than the last pair of boots Gepard anti-submarine ). 

All of their facilities have been prepared, Rudenko said , CEO Zelenodolsk, Vitaly Volkov said that we have good visibility, likely to provide more, and the proposal to meet the wants of the Vietnam Ministry of Defense. But he did not go into details . CEO Zelenodolsk plant, Renat Mistahov he then said with optimistic that, the two sides discussed how to continue to meet desired more other vessels from Vietnam NamTheo Voice of Russia, 35EV missile Kh will have a target range of up to 300km and carrying warheads weighing up to 300kg. can be designed to operate in any weather conditions, can resist high levels of interference and intensity of enemy firepower. So, compared with prototype, Vietnam-Russia cooperative missile has a range of production raised more than doiOng Igor Korotchenko, the head of the Center for Analysis of Global Arms Market Russian said This is a subsonic missile efficiency. It can overcome any air defense of naval forces. Course, missiles will be adapted to the needs of Vietnam, like the BrahMos missile India developing its Russian joint venture
Vietnam to produce missile warships Gepard 39 | DBV | VietNam News

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## Viet

Cam Ranh base will host a maintenance facility for Kilos and Gepards

source:
Vi

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## Viet

Vietnam, US hold 6th political, security, and defence dialogue in Washington DC on October 1, 2013







Vietnam, US hold 6th political, security, and defence dialogue | VOV Online Newspaper

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## Tanja

General Vo Nguyen Giap - the legend of Vietnam, great people, the hero has passed away, recently. So painful!

read more at
FNOTW: The pass away of a great communist war-leader, and the thoughts about China

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## visom

Hey Viet does Vietnam ever reverse engineer any of the military weapon we bought to make our own technology besides military ones?


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## Tanja

Rip Mr. Võ Nguyên Giáp

Opinion: The pass away of a great communist war-leader, and the thoughts about China

General Vo Nguyen Giap - the legend of Vietnam, the leader of the victories against French and U.S. passed away at the age of 102 in Hanoi. In the end of his life, he showed a sincere concern about bauxite mining projects taken over by Chinese, but there was no reply for him from the government.

FNOTW: The pass away of a great communist war-leader, and the thoughts about China

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## Soryu

visom said:


> Hey Viet does Vietnam ever reverse engineer any of the military weapon we bought to make our own technology besides military ones?



I think we do. example is Viettel or H&#7891;ng Hà, Sông Thu company. We need the time

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## Viet

*India&#8217;s Growing Military Diplomacy*

August 16, 2013
By Nitin A. Gokhale








> India has repaired and upgraded more than 100 MiG 21 planes of the Vietnam People&#8217;s Air Force and supplied them with enhanced avionics and radar systems. Indian Air Force pilots have also been training their Vietnamese counterparts.
> 
> The Indian Navy, by far larger than the Vietnamese navy, has been supplying critical spares to Hanoi for its Russian origin ships and missile boats.


India

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## Viet

*With Russia&#8217;s Help, Vietnam Adopts A2/AD Strategy*

By Carl Thayer
October 8, 2013 








> Vietnam&#8217;s Minister of National Defense, General Thanh, paid a return visit to Russia in August. The two defense ministers reached agreement on a five-year MOU covering exchanges of military delegations at all levels, annual dialogue on defense policy and strategy, military technology cooperation, professional training for Vietnamese officers and other ranks, and future arms sales (quality, price and service). Under the MOU, Russia will upgrade, digitize, and assist in maintaining weapons and weapon systems sold to Vietnam.



With Russia

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## Soryu

Picture from qdnd.vn

Su-30Mk2v fying over the Spratly Islands:






VPA's Soldiers and C125M anti-air missile system






C-125M system firing a anti-air missile






A89 anti-air system (9K35 Strela-10)






S-300 system in combat readiness condition






57mm anti-air gun system 






A87 anti-air missile system (9K338 Igla-S)

ZCY23mm anti-air gun system

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## EastSea

Japan' Coast guard ships visited Vietnam.

In Morning 18/10, two training ships Kashima, Shirayuki and warship Isoyuki of self-defense forces of Japan reached to Da Nang beach, start friendship visit this city.
The visit headed by Admiral Fumiyuki Kitagawa together 750 officers and sailors made friendship visit to Da Nang until 21/10.

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## BoQ77

As I know, that's Japanese navy visit not coast guard








































> Japan&#8217;s naval defence ships visit Da Nang
> 19/10/2013 | 16:15:33
> 
> Three Japanese c oastal defence ships with a total crew of 750 people aboard docked at Da Nang Port on October 19, beginning their friendship visit to the central city.
> 
> An official welcome ceremony for the naval delegation, led by Admiral Fuiyuki Kitagawa, was held in Tien Sa port in the presence of representatives from the Defence Ministry, the Vietnam People&#8217;s Naval Armed Service, the Naval High Command of Zone 3, and the municipal People&#8217;s Committee, among others.
> 
> Japanese attendees included Ambassador to Vietnam Hiroshi Fukada, Colonel Manabu Ozawa, Japanese military attaché, and representatives of the Japanese Business Association in Da Nang.
> 
> During the three-day stay in the city (October 19&#8211;21), the ship captains will pay courtesy visits to leaders of the municipal People&#8217;s Committee, the Military Zone 5&#8217;s High Command, and the Navy Zone 3&#8217;s High Command.
> 
> Officers and crewmembers will join in cultural and sports exchange activities and tour places of interest in Da Nang and its surrounding areas.-VNA





> Japan will propose that Vietnam set up a civil maritime security force to facilitate the export of patrol vessels to Vietnam at upcoming maritime security talks between the two countries, Japanese media reported.
> 
> The proposal, which came ahead of the two countries' first-ever maritime security talks this month, has been interpreted as an attempt to counter China's activities in safeguarding its maritime rights in the South China Sea.
> 
> Japan's Kyodo News quoted sources as saying that the two sides are expected to discuss Japan's possible provision of patrol vessels to Vietnam.
> 
> Media reports stated Japan is planning to export high-performance maritime patrol ships above 1,000 tons in an effort to help Vietnam strengthen its capacity to protect its rights.
> 
> However, given that Japan's assistance can only be channeled to non-military programs, Tokyo will reportedly suggest the Vietnamese government should separate its maritime police force from its army, so as to facilitate the export.
> 
> Japan hopes to strengthen cooperation with Vietnam on maritime security, and wants to help Vietnam establish a mechanism equivalent to the Japan Coast Guard. One report from Ribenxinwen said the Japan's self-defense force is helping Vietnam train submarine crews, citing an unnamed Japanese official.
> 
> Global Times - Agencies

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## Soryu

*4K44 Redut system:*











*RV-01 Radar*






*4K51 Rubezh*






*Mil Mi-17 in Spratly Islands*







Vietnam's Navy officers and Indian's Navy officers takes the picture at the memory time for 40 years setting relationship







T-54 tank in exercise:







BMP-2 with new camo:

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## Rechoice

BoQ77 said:


> As I know, that's Japanese navy visit not coast guard
> 
> .



Yes, the photo is wrong (?) 

Japan Coast Guard vessel visits Da Nang

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## EastSea

Rechoice said:


> Yes, the photo is wrong (?)
> 
> Japan Coast Guard vessel visits Da Nang



Thks for post, but BoQ77 is right, becourse PL 21 Japan Coast Guard is not visited in recent time.


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## BoQ77

No one wrong, the coast guard, coastal defense ships ... all come to Vietnam for join-training ...
The Marine Corp next year come for join-training ... 

That points out that Vietnam has more allies when needed, and others could count on Vietnam when something happen

I think one day, Vietnam will build the aircraft carrier instead of Japan ( as their limit ).
Japan has their own F35 vertical take off, and carrier in SCS already under Vietnam flag

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## Soryu

BoQ77 said:


> No one wrong, the coast guard, coastal defense ships ... all come to Vietnam for join-training ...
> *The Marine Corp next year come for join-training ... *
> 
> That points out that Vietnam has more allies when needed, and others could count on Vietnam when something happen
> 
> I think one day, Vietnam will build the aircraft carrier instead of Japan ( as their limit ).
> Japan has their own F35 vertical take off, and carrier in SCS already under Vietnam flag



Where's you get it!? (the bold text)

And aircraft carrier ... I think we don't need it in next 20 years, and that day will be very far for us.

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## BoQ77

Soryu said:


> Where's you get it!? (the bold text)
> 
> And aircraft carrier ... I think we don't need it in next 20 years, and that day will be very far for us.



Something they still not publicize ,

Coast guard joint training in Vietnam : US and Vietnam














> Cablegate: U.S. Coast Guards Begins Training the Vietnam Marine Police
> *Friday, 6 November 2009, 7:29 am
> Cable: Wikileaks
> Ref: 09HANOI1198*
> 
> VZCZCXRO0810
> OO RUEHDT RUEHPB
> DE RUEHHI #1198/01 3100729
> ZNR UUUUU ZZH
> O R 060729Z NOV 09
> FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
> TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 0408
> INFO ASEAN REGIONAL FORUM COLLECTIVE
> RHMCSUU/CDR USPACOM HONOLULU HI
> RHMFISS/COMDT COGARD WASHINGTON DC
> RHMFISS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC
> RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC
> 
> UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HANOI 001198
> 
> SENSITIVE
> SIPDIS
> STATE FOR EAP/MLS, EAP/RSP, ISN/ECC
> 
> E.O. 12958: N/A
> TAGS: PREL SNAR KNNP MASS VM
> SUBJECT: U.S. Coast Guards Begins Training the Vietnam Marine Police
> 
> HANOI 00001198 001.2 OF 002
> 
> 
> 1. (U) Summary. The United States Coast Guard (USCG) kicked off
> its partnership program with the Vietnam Marine Police (VMP) under
> the Export Control and Related Border Security (EXBS) program by
> conducting two sessions of the Maritime Law Enforcement Boarding
> Officer course in Haiphong and Phu Quoc, October 12-23. Vietnamese
> participants received practical instruction and hands-on training
> on a range of issues, including interdiction and boarding
> procedures, and a briefing by the Embassy's acting Drug Enforcement
> Agency Attache. The participants were active, posed questions, and
> offered favorable feedback reviews. Overall, the training was not
> only beneficial for the participants, but highlighted opportunities
> for more in-depth future training in specific subject areas. End
> summary.
> 
> 2. (U) A 4-person team from USCG visited Vietnam October 12-23 to
> conduct two training sessions as part of the partnering program
> established earlier this year between the USCG and VMP. The
> sessions, conducted in Haiphong and Phu Quoc, consisted of two days
> of classroom instruction, followed by three days of practical
> hands-on training. Classroom subjects covered international law,
> boarding preparation and procedures, use of force, stopping
> uncooperative vessels, tactical concepts and tactical procedures,
> smuggling trends and hidden compartment detection, occupational
> hazards, drug identification, introduction on explosives and
> improvised explosive devices, alien migration interdiction
> operations and the use of personal radiation detection devices
> ("pagers"). At the end of each class, radiation pagers were handed
> over to VMP Regions 1 and 5 and several more will be transferred to
> VMP Headquarters to help strengthen their non-proliferation
> capacity. Hands-on training, including easy weapon removal,
> frisking, handcuffing, and boarding exercises, allowed students an
> opportunity to apply the lessons in simulated boarding situations.
> The Acting DEA Attache joined the session in Phu Quoc, where he
> gave an overview of the DEA counternarcotics mission in Vietnam,
> discussed the overall narcotics smuggling situation in Southeast
> Asia, and explained new methods used by drug criminals in the
> region.
> 
> 3. (SBU) The VMP Headquarters and their regional offices organized
> the training at their facilities, providing classrooms as well as
> boats for the practical exercises for the 45 VMP students who
> attended the two classes. The Ministry of Defense (MOD) limited
> this initial training event to the VMP, and the VMP leadership
> easily filled all of the available slots with students with various
> experience and expertise. Customs and Navy officials have also
> expressed a desire to send their officers to such training, and the
> MOD and VMP have agreed to include these agencies in future events.
> (Comment: We suspect the MOD limited the initial offering to VMP
> officers only as this fit the scope of the agreed partnership
> proposal and this was their first opportunity to see what the
> training entailed. We are hopeful that MOD is now more comfortable
> with the training and will allow other agencies to participate in
> future. End comment.)
> 
> 4. (U) During the two courses, students posed questions concerning
> the USCG's organizational structure, U.S. laws and regulations,
> USCG investigation authority, cooperation and coordination between
> USCG and other relating agencies, and information collection and
> sharing, as well as how USCG handles different situations at sea,
> especially when a foreign vessel is involved. The students of the
> second class, comprised of younger officers with greater English
> capability than the first, were particularly enthusiastic and
> engaged in the training activities. The Acting DEA Attache also
> reported great interest in counternarcotics issues from the second
> class, particularly in how the U.S. undertakes such operations on
> the sea.
> 
> 5. (U) Despite differences in U.S. and Vietnamese laws and
> regulations and the relative level of experience of the two forces,
> the students' evaluated the training highly and said it was a
> valuable opportunity to improve their knowledge and skills. They
> were impressed with the combination of theory and practical
> exercises and were also complimentary of the instructors, who got
> high marks for being dedicated, enthusiastic, and friendly, yet
> disciplined and professional.
> 
> HANOI 00001198 002.2 OF 002
> 
> 
> 6. (U) The students shared their ideas for improving future
> training, including lengthening the course, adding more advanced
> courses and specialized courses in drug interdiction, search and
> rescue, and international law, and offering specialized English
> language training. As the VMP is still in the planning process to
> develop its own training facility, both the students and the VMP
> leadership asked for additional USCG training opportunities for
> more attendees. The senior VMP officials present also requested
> additional equipment, including contraband detection tools,
> narcotic field test kits, and fraudulent document detection
> machines.
> 
> 7. (SBU) Comment. This was the first USCG engagement with the VMP
> under their new partnership program. Its positive results bode
> well for future cooperation between the two forces. The training
> courses received a great deal of attention from the VMP leadership,
> as well as the Ministry of Defense, with senior representatives
> from MOD both attending the opening and closing ceremonies, and
> hosting farewell lunches and dinners. The VMP leadership's
> recommendations for future training will not only be very useful
> for planning purposes, but represent clear signals that they are
> eager for further cooperation. *Continuing the partnership plan,
> the USCG has invited one VMP officer to attend the 15-week
> International Maritime Officer Course starting in March 2010 at the
> USCG Training Center in Yorktown, Virginia.*
> Palmer

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## NiceGuy

*France Sells Exocet Block 3 For Two Vietnamese SIGMA 9814*
Senin, November 04, 2013

France Sells Exocet Block 3 For Two Vietnamese SIGMA 9814 - Indo Defense Blog



*HANOI-(IDB)* : The European Union defense company MBDA will provide VL MICA air defense missile systems on ships and Latest generation anti-ship missiles Excocet Block 3 for 2 Vietnam missile corvette's SIGMA 9814, French business weekly said on 3/10. 
The newspaper quoted the CEO of MBDA, Antoine Bouvier said in a hearing before members of the National Assembly Defense Committee said that France, now, waiting MBDA signed three major contracts for defense foreign customers, including Saudi Arabia, Malaysia and a new customer of the French defense industry is Vietnam . 
According to Bouvier, MBDA will be joining equipped air defense system on the vessels VL MICA and advanced anti-ship missiles, Exocet Block 3 for 2 stealth corvette SIGMA 9814 by Dutch Shipyard DSNS created for Vietnam. The agreement near future is highly MBDA, help them put a ticket on the market procurement of modern military equipment in Vietnam in the coming years. 
Thus, disclosure of CEO of MBDA has gradually revealed the weapon system equipped with the most modern in the configuration of two SIGMA 9814 ships escorted by the Navy in Vietnam in the future .




Specifically, according to information revealed recently, to generalize about the configuration of two SIGMA 9814 ships Vietnam as follows : length 98 m and 14 m wide, equipped with vertical launch system tubes (VLS) for MBDA MICA missile, one 76mm Oto Melara main gun and Exocet anti-ship missiles. 
SIGMA 9814 is equipped with combat management system TACTICOS , search radar SMART-S MK2 targets and fire control systems STING EO MK2 developed by Thales Netherlands. These are the electronic systems of the most advanced in Europe. 
The system equipped with Exocet Block 3 anti-ship missile with a range of 180 km of France, synonymous with the version of the missile Kh - 35EV by Vietnam and Russia will work together to develop are not present on the ship SIGMA 9814 in the future. All of the information revealed so far shows that the Netherlands will play for Vietnam 2 warships equipped with all the standard weapons of the West.

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## elis

JEW NATO hates China, why China help them by giving HJ-8 to the beheading freedom democrats in Syria?


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## cnleio

elis said:


> JEW NATO hates China, why China help them by giving HJ-8 to the beheading freedom democrats in Syria?



Not ours, obviousely BeiJing government never support Free Syria Army. China didn't sell HJ-8 and QW-2 missile to them, but some West and Arab country ever bought China weapons or sent their weapons stock to rebel fighters in Syria. 

Well the international weapons market is complex, u only know who buy the weapon but can not judge who will use them in hands. China never export weapons to any Rebel Army, but black market sell them in Syria.

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## vostok

The submarine "Hanoi" transferred to Vietnam





Today in St. Petersburg at the JSC "Admiralty Shipyards" was handed over to Vietnam diesel - electric submarine HQ- 182 " Hanoi ".
Head of diesel- electric submarine of the project 06361 with serial number 01339 was founded in St. Petersburg, August 24, 2010 and launched on 28 August 2012 .
In accordance with the December 2009 contract , Vietnam needs to get 6 diesel-electric submarine of the project 06361 . At the moment, HQ- 183 , " Ho Chi Minh City " is being tested , HQ- 184 " Hai Phong " being completed afloat , three boats are built by JSC "Admiralty Shipyards" .
Vietnam became the seventh country , whose fleet of diesel-electric submarines was like " Varshavyanka " previously submarines of this type of different modifications were Navy Algeria, India , Iran, China, Poland and Romania. " Hanoi " was 31st "Varshavyanka", set for export.

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## elis

cnleio said:


> Not ours, obviousely BeiJing government never support Free Syria Army. China didn't sell HJ-8 and QW-2 missile to them, but some West and Arab country ever bought China weapons or sent their weapons stock to rebel fighters in Syria.
> 
> Well the international weapons market is complex, u only know who buy the weapon but can not judge who will use them in hands. China never export weapons to any Rebel Army, but black market sell them in Syria.


In time of war the countries outside must stop their shipments of weapons. It was actually what the french did for the Falklands war when they stopped arming Argentina with Exocet missiles

Because it can be seen as an hostile act and the other countries can arm your enemies when you get in war as a revenge

The Exocet missile is a very efficient missile and it proves the zionist Fabius (french foreign minister) doesn't like China because they want to make the NWO ruled in Jerusalem

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## Soryu

Is this real !?
A Sukhoi Su-34 after a demonstration for a partner's pre-purchase evaluation - from facebook Comrade Commissar.


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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Is this real !?
> A Sukhoi Su-34 after a demonstration for a partner's pre-purchase evaluation - from facebook Comrade Commissar.


China didn't plan to import Su-34 coz SAC building J-16(Su-30mkk clone), Does VN will buy it from Russia?
Su-34 will be a good platform for anti-ship mission, carry more missiles than Su-30.

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## Fsjal

If Vietnam uses Su-34, then they will have good anti-ship capability in South China Sea/East Sea.

Anyway, 12 or 24 (a squadron) would be the amount Vietnam would buy.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> China didn't plan to import Su-34 coz SAC building J-16(Su-30mkk clone), *Does VN will buy it from Russia?*
> Su-34 will be a good platform for anti-ship mission, carry more missiles than Su-30.


No info. But my 2-cent opinion is Vietnam should consider inducting 5th gereration fighter aircrafts such as T-50 (in the future), as countermeasure against your Chinese stealth fighters. But I´m afraid that won´t happen soon as we don´t have any printing $-machine.





 


Fsjal said:


> If Vietnam uses Su-34, then they will have good anti-ship capability in South China Sea/East Sea.
> Anyway, 12 or 24 (a squadron) would be the amount Vietnam would buy.


Mr Putin will visit Vietnam tomorrow. Let see what he has to offer. My favorite is rather submarines and destroyers.


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> No info. But my 2-cent opinion is Vietnam should consider inducting 5th gereration fighter aircrafts such as T-50 (in the future), as countermeasure against your Chinese stealth fighters. But I´m afraid that won´t happen soon as we don´t have any printing $-machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Putin will visit Vietnam tomorrow. Let see what he has to offer. My favorite is rather submarines and destroyers.


It seem like Mr. Putin will allow VN to produce T-50 wt Russia 


> 11 November 2013, 04:00
> *Russia-Vietnam: Together to New Cooperation Goals*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo: RIA Novosti
> 
> *Russian President Vladimir Putin's article "Russia-Vietnam: together to New Cooperation Goals" will be published in the leading Vietnamese printed media ahead of the Russian leader’s official visit to the country. Read the full article below.*
> 
> Ahead of my third visit to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, I would like to take this opportunity to directly address Vietnamese public and share some thoughts on the future of our bilateral relations.
> 
> Russian-Vietnamese friendship has stood the test of time, having lived through the numerous tragic events of the 20th century, drastic changes in the world as well as in our countries. The main thing has always remained the same, however – respect towards each other, traditions of confidence and mutual assistance, ability to appreciate selfless support of the partners that will never betray.
> 
> In this context, let me quote famous words of President Ho Chi Minh: "When you drink water, think of its source." I consider that phrase to be a spiritual instruction to the present and future generations of citizens of our countries. One should always remember our common history and everything that unites us. This guarantees continuity and stability of future-oriented relations.
> 
> We are happy with major achievements reached by Vietnam on its path towards important economic and social reforms. Russia addresses complex national issues as well. We believe that active involvement in the integration processes, both at global and regional levels, is a powerful resource for development. We attach particular importance to cooperation with the Asia Pacific States among which Vietnam is one of the leading centers of growth.
> 
> The positions of our countries on issues relating to the global agenda are similar in many aspects. Together we seek answers to new challenges and threats. We uphold the rule of law in international relations and advocate that no alternative political or diplomatic tools should be used for resolving disputes and that every state has a right to choose it own path of development.
> 
> All these factors determine the intensity of Russian-Vietnamese strategic partnership which we can rightly call comprehensive. Last year, bilateral trade increased by 20 percent and amounted to $3.66 billion. We expect that it will reach $7 billion as early as 2015 and increase up to $10 billion in 2020.
> 
> The signing of a free trade area agreement (FTA) between the member states of the Customs Unions and Vietnam would contribute to achieving these objectives, which corresponds to the logic of political and economic integration in Eurasia and the Asia-Pacific region. The negotiations on a FTA are under way, and we hope to successfully complete them.
> 
> Energy, oil and gas sectors have traditionally played a key role in the development of Russian-Vietnamese industrial and investment cooperation. For instance, our leading joint venture Vietsovpetro has accumulated a unique technological expertise of working on the continental shelf. Over the years, the company has produced 206 million tons of oil and its total profits account for tens of billions of dollars.
> 
> The companies Rosneft and Gazprom increase their presence in Vietnam. Their projects relate to the production of hydrocarbons, modernization of refining capacities and supply to Vietnam of the liquefied natural gas from the Russian Far East.
> 
> Let me emphasize that our oil and gas cooperation is two-way and reciprocal.Rusvietpetrois an example of a successful joint venture in the Yamalo-Nenets autonomous district. We also expect a lot of another joint companyGazpromviet which has started the development of oil and gas fields in the Orenburg region and other Russian territories.
> 
> Our cooperation in energy goes far beyond hydrocarbon production. Russia helps Vietnam to develop a nuclear industry which is a totally new sector for the country. Rosatom will be responsible for the construction of the first Vietnamese nuclear power plant in the province of Ninh Thuan. The first and second nuclear units are scheduled to be launched in 2023 and 2024, respectively. Plans are being discussed to jointly construct a Nuclear Science & Technology Center.
> 
> Peaceful use of outer space and Russia's GLONASS satellite navigation system, air and rail transportation development, engineering, mining, banking and public health seem to be very promising areas of cooperation. The goal of the above projects and initiatives is to improve our investment, technology and industrial collaboration.
> 
> *Our military and technical cooperation has taken a totally new dimension. It is no longer limited to export supplies, steps are being taken to launch in Vietnam licensed production of advanced military equipment with the assistance of Russian companies*.
> 
> We have always been proud of the traditions of humanitarian cooperation in the field of education, science and culture. It is meaningful that this year Vietnam has been allocated the highest quota (except for the CIS countries) for training specialists in Russian educational institutions. Today about 5,000 citizens of Vietnam receive education in Russia, about 2000 of them study under interstate agreements.
> 
> I should underline the joint activities of our scientists, including many years of work of the Russian-Vietnamese Tropical research and technological center. Specialists all over the world highly appreciate the results of its applied and fundamental research.
> 
> My visit takes place during the Days of Russian culture in Vietnam. We are pleased to see that our Vietnamese friends are truly interested in our art. On their turn Russian citizens are waiting for the Vietnamese cultural workers to come to visit Russia. I am sure that the Days of Hanoi in Moscow in late November this year will have great success. Such exchanges have already proved their importance. We intend to continue this practice.
> 
> The number of Russians visiting Vietnam shows the willingness to learn better rich history and culture of the Vietnamese people. Last year this number doubled and for nine months of this year it has grown up by 66 per cent having risen beyond 200,000 people. I think that this tendency will continue taking into account the successful development of tourist infrastructure in Vietnam.
> 
> It is difficult to enumerate the areas in which Russia and Vietnam do not develop fruitful cooperation. I expect that the future high-level negotiations in Hanoi will be constructive as usual and will give new momentum to the strategic partnership between our states and peoples.
> Read more: Russia-Vietnam: Together to New Cooperation Goals - News - Politics - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video

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## Viet

*Putin vows to boost Russian military supplies to Vietnam amid South China Sea dispute*

The Russian president promises to expand arms supplies in a gesture certain to raise tensions with China amid maritime disputes

PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 12 November, 2013, 1:03pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 13 November, 2013, 8:54am

Kristine Kwok and Agencies
Kristine.kwok@scmp.com
Putin vows to boost Russian military supplies to Vietnam amid South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
























Russian President Vladimir Putin has pledged to expand military supplies to Vietnam, a move that looks set to raise concerns from Beijing as tensions over the South China Sea linger.

In the latest sign of deepening military ties between the former allies, Putin made the announcement yesterday during a one-day state visit to Vietnam.

While still in a headlock with Vietnam over maritime territorial disputes, China sees closer Russia and Vietnam military ties as a move to counterbalance its rising power in the region.

Beijing is likely to be closely watching any discussion on future military co-operation between Russia and Vietnam during Putin's visit, according to Zhang Mingliang , an expert on China's relations with Southeast Asian countries from Guangzhou's Jinan University.

"Russia has been the biggest supporter of Vietnam in the South China Sea," said Zhang, citing submarine deals and a Russian oil company's presence in Vietnam's claimed waters.

One key area of scrutiny, Zhang said, would be any possible co-operation between the two countries in the Cam Ranh Bay, a strategically important naval base in the south central coast of Vietnam. Russia will reportedly provide technicians to help Vietnam prepare the base.

Russia has been Vietnam's biggest weapons supplier. Last week, Russia handed over the first of six Kilo diesel-electric submarines to Vietnam. Military analysts say the vessels would significantly boost Vietnam's efforts to create a deterrent against China's naval power.

Relations between China and Southeast Asian neighbours, particularly Vietnam and the Philippines, have been strained by territorial disputes in the South China Sea over the past few years. Since taking power, Chinese President Xi Jinping has made improving neighbourly ties a priority.

After a "constructive and open" meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart Truong Tan Sang yesterday, Putin said the two had specific discussions on military co-operation.

"We plan to expand the supplies of Russian military products to Vietnam," he said.

Also high on the agenda were energy agreements that would explore resources in the Arctic and build 13 nuclear plants in Vietnam.

"Russia is working with Vietnam not only to build the country's first nuclear power plant, but also train staff and set up a science and technology centre," Putin said.

Russia's Rosneft yesterday signed an agreement to allow Vietnam's Petrovietnam to explore oil and gas in the Pechora Sea in the Arctic off northwest Russia. Russian state monopoly Gazprom also agreed to jointly invest with Petrovietnam in the US$3 billion Dung Quat refinery in central Vietnam

Other agreements reportedly include economics, trade, investment, science and technology.

Media reports in Vietnam and Russia hailed Putin's visit as a move to further enhance bilateral ties, which was upgraded to a "comprehensive strategic partnership" last year.

Putin will leave Vietnam for South Korea today.

_*Additional reporting Associated Press and Reuters*_

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## Minjitta

I doubted Vietnam can produce complex weaponry maybe just assembly line, and supply ready to defense at any moment. Not have to rely on shipment of weapons during war time.


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## NiceGuy

Minjitta said:


> I doubted Vietnam can produce complex weaponry maybe just assembly line, and supply ready to defense at any moment. Not have to rely on shipment of weapons during war time.


Russia wanna revive Great Soviet union, so she will help us to produce modern weapons to expand the communist influence to all over ASEAN regions


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## Viet

Minjitta said:


> I doubted Vietnam can produce complex weaponry maybe just assembly line, and supply ready to defense at any moment. Not have to rely on shipment of weapons during war time.


Putin clearly says he wants to see Vietnam more to produce (advanced) weapons systems under supervision and license of Russia.

_"Cooperation in the military-technical area is qualitatively taking a new shape. This is not only exports, as Vietnam with the participation of Russian companies is establishing *licensed production of advanced military equipment*," Putin said._

Putin conquers Vietnam - English pravda.ru

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## Nike

NiceGuy said:


> Russia wanna revive Great Soviet union, so she will help us to produce modern weapons to expand the communist influence to all over ASEAN regions



sorry we still don't wanna your red flavour


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## nufix

madokafc said:


> sorry we still don't wanna your red flavour


why bother commenting what he says? let's just focus on the topic.




> Putin clearly says he wants to see Vietnam more to produce (advanced) weapons systems under supervision and license of Russia.
> 
> _"Cooperation in the military-technical area is qualitatively taking a new shape. This is not only exports, as Vietnam with the participation of Russian companies is establishing *licensed production of advanced military equipment*," Putin said._



I second Minjitta, assembly line is much more possible for production of military equipment built under license. The main parts like engine and electronics will still be provided and sent by and from Russia, like India with its Migs. And those all will be assemblied in Vietnam, there are also possibilities that the fuselage will also be manufactured in Vietnam.

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## Minjitta

nufix said:


> why bother commenting what he says? let's just focus on the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I second Minjitta, assembly line is much more possible for production of military equipment built under license. The main parts like engine and electronics will still be provided and sent by and from Russia, like India with its Migs. And those all will be assemblied in Vietnam, there are also possibilities that the fuselage will also be manufactured in Vietnam.


Yeap that will be the first step, you can run when you don't know how to walk. It definitely a good step for Vietnam, military wise headed the right direction.

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## Viet

nufix said:


> why bother commenting what he says? let's just focus on the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I second Minjitta, assembly line is much more possible for production of military equipment built under license. The main parts like engine and electronics will still be provided and sent by and from Russia, like India with its Migs. And those all will be assemblied in Vietnam, there are also possibilities that the fuselage will also be manufactured in Vietnam.


yeah ...I have a wish list for the production, here is it:

supersonic antiship missiles (Yakhon)
frigates (Gepard)
submarines (Kilo)
jets (SU-30MK)

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## nufix

Viet said:


> yeah ...I have a wish list for the production, here is it:
> 
> supersonic antiship missiles (Yakhon)
> frigates (Gepard)
> submarines (Kilo)
> jets (SU-30MK)


good, Vietnam has maintained a good relationship with Russia. If Vietnamese local industries are eager to support to manufacturing of those weapons, Vietnam will be the second country after India that will be producing Russian-licensed weaponries outside its traditional slavic countries in eastern Europe.

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## Viet

nufix said:


> good, Vietnam has maintained a good relationship with Russia. If Vietnamese local industries are eager to support to manufacturing of those weapons, Vietnam will be the second country after India that will be producing Russian-licensed weaponries outside its traditional slavic countries in eastern Europe.


Actually very litle is known at this stage of what advanced weapons Vietnam will produce? I guess things will need to be worked out. We may hear more in some few months.

One thing is weird: Petrovietnam won the bizarre right to explore for resources in the Pechora Sea in the Russian Arctic, as Russia rarely allows foreign firms such access.

I believe Putin loves Vietnam. He sees Vietnam as a close friend. It is more than about money, weapons and business.

_Before he departed for Vietnam, Putin wrote, "Russian-Vietnamese friendship has stood the test of time, having lived through the numerous tragic events of the 20th century and drastic changes in the world as well as in our countries."_

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## Minjitta

Viet said:


> Actually very litle is known at this stage of what advanced weapons Vietnam will produce? I guess things will need to be worked out. We may hear more in some few months.
> 
> One thing is weird: Petrovietnam won the bizarre right to explore for resources in the Pechora Sea in the Russian Arctic, as Russia rarely allows foreign firms such access.
> 
> I believe Putin loves Vietnam. He sees Vietnam as a close friend. It is more than about money, weapons and business.
> 
> _Before he departed for Vietnam, Putin wrote, "Russian-Vietnamese friendship has stood the test of time, having lived through the numerous tragic events of the 20th century and drastic changes in the world as well as in our countries."_


I don't think it up to President Putin, but he does have to agree. I think the trustworthy that Vietnam and Russia had long time ago. Trust can't be build overnight, who else the Russia have long relationship and truthful in Asia? Some with long relationship but the trust are not there.
This really going to help Vietnam in military technology and economic wise. Russia will have her hand on Southeast Asia to keep balance in the region. This will be very handy to Asia as peace to the region when USA fade out of Asia due to US economy fall out.

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## NiceGuy

madokafc said:


> sorry we still don't wanna your red flavour





nufix said:


> why bother commenting what he says? let's just focus on the topic.


But there is Nothing wrong with communist ideal. the Communist Society – was a free association of completely free men, where no separation between ‘private and common interest’ existed: a society where ‘everyone could give himself a complete education in whatever domain he fancied’

U guys dont like tobe a free man living in freedom ?? u wanna be slave of China-US or ur corrupted leader ??


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## NiceGuy

Minjitta said:


> This really going to help Vietnam in military technology and economic wise.* Russia will have her hand on Southeast Asia to keep balance in the region*. This will be very handy to Asia as peace to the region when USA fade out of Asia due to US economy fall out.


Time to expand our power in Asia like in 1979, not time to keep balance, China is too weak and coward, she is not deserve as our worthy opponent


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> But there is Nothing wrong with communist ideal. the Communist Society – was a free association of completely free men, where no separation between ‘private and common interest’ existed: a society where ‘everyone could give himself a complete education in whatever domain he fancied’
> 
> U guys dont like tobe a free man living in freedom ?? u wanna be slave of China-US or ur corrupted leader ??


communism sucks, don´t talk trash.


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> communism sucks, don´t talk trash.


Communism is the idea of a society where people enjoy freedom , peace and fair treament. Thats the truth, u cant demonize it to serve ur own selfish thought

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## nufix

NiceGuy said:


> But there is Nothing wrong with communist ideal. the Communist Society – was a free association of completely free men, where no separation between ‘private and common interest’ existed: a society where ‘everyone could give himself a complete education in whatever domain he fancied’
> 
> U guys dont like tobe a free man living in freedom ?? u wanna be slave of China-US or ur corrupted leader ??



In theory, yes, in reality? no.

Seriously, we have been through communism and totalitarian dictator, we know more than you the difference between living under one-party system and multi-parties system. I am now residing in Germany, in former east Germany state to be precise, an authoritarian communist DDR government controlled almost everything from media to voting right, manipulating vote result, centralized economy, you name it, and you can see the difference between BDR and DDR. That also happened in Indonesia during its communism period 1950s-1966 and also ultra nationalist dictatorial government 1966-1998.

"There´s no separation between private and common interest"

In fact, that system is often misinterpreted to be a ground for a sistematical removal of personal freedom. Under the name of common interest, your basic personal freedom is systematically reduced. But don't worry, you will never realize it until you have a complete democracy.

"a society where ‘everyone could give himself a complete education in whatever domain he fancied’"

Oh, so in the non-Communist utopia lands the people couldn't get a complete education in whatever domain he fancied? Funny yet groundless statement.


U guys dont like tobe *a free man living in freedom *?? u wanna *be slave of China-US or ur corrupted leader ??*

Uhm... let's see, I can choose whatever party I want, I can protest and mock a leader openly, the media is not controlled by government, tell me one communist land that is allowing people to do that.

Well, we have never been in any block during the cold war, we founded the non block organization, we balanced the U.S and Soviet influence in the country, *we made our own ideology.

*It is true that our leaders are corrupt as ****, but the country is running well, better than Vietnam I can say, as you can see, the top economies in ASEAN (Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and Brunei) are all non -Communist country. How can you guarantee that communism will bring the region into a better condition while communists in ASEAN like those in Laos are among the poorest countries in the region?


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## NiceGuy

nufix said:


> In theory, yes, in reality? no.
> 
> Seriously, we have been through communism and totalitarian dictator, we know more than you the difference between living under one-party system and multi-parties system. I am now residing in Germany, in former east Germany state to be precise, an authoritarian communist DDR government controlled almost everything from media to voting right, manipulating vote result, centralized economy, you name it, and you can see the difference between BDR and DDR. That also happened in Indonesia during its communism period 1950s-1966 and also ultra nationalist dictatorial government 1966-1998.


communism could be built only in highly industrialized countries. East Germany after WW 2 was ruled by Soviet union-a country that its industry was not high enough to meet the requirement. So, its not a real communist nations.


nufix said:


> Well, we have never been in any block during the cold war, we founded the non block organization, we balanced the U.S and Soviet influence in the country, *we made our own ideology.*


Because ur country dont have an important location like us or huge oil field like Middle east, thats why No big bad boy wanna invade u. if US wanna did it, ur country would fall within 1 month like Iraq or Lybia coz ur country dont have any kind of powerful weapon to fight back
*



It is true that our leaders are corrupt as ****, but the country is running well, better than Vietnam I can say, as you can see, the top economies in ASEAN (Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and Brunei) are all non -Communist country. How can you guarantee that communism will bring the region into a better condition while communists in ASEAN like those in Laos are among the poorest countries in the region?

Click to expand...

*Better than VietNam ?? oki time will tell .that'sthe time u must by this plane from us


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## Minjitta

NiceGuy said:


> Time to expand our power in Asia like in 1979, not time to keep balance, China is too weak and coward, she is not deserve as our worthy opponent


you funny )


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## nufix

NiceGuy said:


> communism could be built only in highly industrialized countries. East Germany after WW 2 was ruled by Soviet union-a country that its industry was not high enough to meet the requirement. So, its not a real communist nations.



Then speak to me about Vietnam being a true communist nations when Vietnam is more industrialized than the former DDR.



NiceGuy said:


> Because ur country dont have an important location, thats why No big bad boy wanna invade u. if US wanna did it, ur country would fall within 1 month like Iraq or Lybia coz ur country dont have any kind of powerful weapon to fight back



I would never again fall into this idiotic debate with you.



NiceGuy said:


> Better than VietNam ?? oki time will tell . If we can produce Su-30 then, that'sthe time u must by this plane from us



Then why do you speak so loud far before it happens? Big mouth will not make you or your country look better. We have been producing aircraft far before any country in ASEAN do that, am I making that as an excuse to despise poorer countries in the region? No. Now see the difference between me and you.

As a person of a neighboring country, I hope Vietnam develope its country faster, and then ASEAN will have more voice than it ever had before, as more and more countries in the region become economically strong, not only weapon. I am sure your countrymen understand that the togetherness and fair cooperation between countries in the region will stabilize the region, not through a total domination like in your dream.


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## NiceGuy

nufix said:


> Then speak to me about Vietnam being a true communist nations when Vietnam is more industrialized than the former DDR.
> 
> .


We need more time dude, war just have been over in VN for more than 20years. With the help of Russia we will become industrialized nation soon 


nufix said:


> Then why do you speak so loud far before it happens? Big mouth will not make you or your country look better. We have been producing aircraft far before any country in ASEAN do that, am I making that as an excuse to despise poorer countries in the region? No. Now see the difference between me and you.
> .


Only Russia and US jet fighter are credible now, ur aircraft is just like China J-20 junk, pls dont talk as if a real good jet fighter.

Lets wait and see if we r allowed to produce Su-30 or not, dont just be so sure that ur country will always be better than mine


> As a person of a neighboring country, I hope Vietnam develope its country faster, and then ASEAN will have more voice than it ever had before, as more and more countries in the region become economically strong, not only weapon. I am sure your countrymen understand that the togetherness and fair cooperation between countries in the region will stabilize the region, not through a total domination like in your dream


No, I've never think abt dominating Indonesia


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## AViet

It is true that our leaders are corrupt as ****, but the country is running well, better than Vietnam I can say, as you can see, the top economies in ASEAN (Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, and Brunei) are all non -Communist country. How can you guarantee that communism will bring the region into a better condition while communists in ASEAN like those in Laos are among the poorest countries in the region?[/quote]

Communism in Soviet-style was dead, but are democracies in India, the Phillipines, Liberia, Mali, Bangladesh,... any better? They are all mature democracies (Liberia have had US-style government for over 200 years). At least in Soviet-style communism, people was nearly universally educated, well-fed and living in civilized manner.

Every type of governing have its pro- and cons. No type will be absolutely dominating, or inherently good or bad. That the Oriental philosophy. The success depends much on people who control and govern the system.


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## Minjitta

NiceGuy said:


> Communism is the idea of a society where people enjoy freedom , peace and fair treament. Thats the truth, u cant demonize it to serve ur own selfish thought


The number 1 enemy of communism are materials, and power. When all human on earth get ride of materialism and power hunger then we can talk about communism. so come back around 500 years from now. heee


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## Soryu

HQ - 182 Hanoi in deck of Rolldock Sea, prepare to sail to Vietnam.

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## AViet

I still remember the pictures of Kabul in 1980s in a Soviet magazine available in Vietnam. The city looked modern, women dressed in Western style with no veil. At that era of communist leader Najibullah in Afghanistan, women were educated, sectarian or tribal conflicts were suppressed. The same can be said for former Muslim Soviet republics in Central Asia and Caucasus.

Now after over 20 years of democracy, in all these countries, religious extremism are rising, barbaric traditions are being restored, women rights are oppressed. What a bleak future for those countries who do not have a huge natural resources like Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan to splurge, like Tadjikistan, Kirgizstan, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan as well.

Sometimes I feel that Soviet-style communism, with all its evils (whether true or exaggerated by Western media) should be the only way for some backward countries to escape from their perpetual religious, sectarian or tribal conflicts to move into modern words.

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## Soryu

New recruit soldiers and their smile:






And their "buffet" meal:

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## visom

NiceGuy said:


> Communism is the idea of a society where people enjoy freedom , peace and fair treament. Thats the truth, u cant demonize it to serve ur own selfish thought


In theory, communism sounds good.

Communism does give equality... as in everyone living in equally poor condition. No country has ever achieved the good side of communism.

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## vostok

visom said:


> In theory, communism sounds good.
> 
> Communism does give equality... as in everyone living in equally poor condition. No country has ever achieved the good side of communism.


No need to exaggerate . In the Soviet Union , people lived with dignity. Ordinary workers could have a motorboat, country houses . Public schools in the USSR given education at the level of elite private schools of the West. The medicine was all-available and free of charge. Pensioners pensions were not just enough to live , but also to help the children and for grandchildren's gifts .
There was no homeless and unemployed. Apartments were given for free.
Everybody subscribed many magazines - scientific, technical, humorous , it was worth some cents only. People were educated , proud , fun , singing songs at work. Crime was almost not there.
It is difficult to imagine that life. Everything was absolutely , totally different.

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## Minjitta

vostok said:


> No need to exaggerate . In the Soviet Union , people lived with dignity. Ordinary workers could have a motorboat, country houses . Public schools in the USSR given education at the level of elite private schools of the West. The medicine was all-available and free of charge. Pensioners pensions were not just enough to live , but also to help the children and for grandchildren's gifts .
> There was no homeless and unemployed. Apartments were given for free.
> Everybody subscribed many magazines - scientific, technical, humorous , it was worth some cents only. People were educated , proud , fun , singing songs at work. Crime was almost not there.
> It is difficult to imagine that life. Everything was absolutely , totally different.


Then why Soviet Union fall apart, is it of the West interfer? or people just not motivate to better them self?

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## vostok

Minjitta said:


> Then why Soviet Union fall apart, is it of the West interfer? or people just not motivate to better them self?


As a result of the extremely complex operation of Western secret services Gorbachev came to power - an agent of the West. He put on all the top positions the same traitors like him. In addition, he brought to power the traitors in almost all countries of the socialist bloc - except Cuba and Vietnam.

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## elis

visom said:


> In theory, communism sounds good.
> 
> Communism does give equality... as in everyone living in equally poor condition. No country has ever achieved the good side of communism.


Communism is created by the jews (Marx, Lenine, Trotsky...) to divide Korea and Vietnam


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## NiceGuy

elis said:


> Communism is created by the jews (Marx, Lenine, Trotsky...) to divide Korea and Vietnam


Communism is created by people's wish. Most of people want a society where they can live in peace, freedom and fair treatment. Marx, Lenine just show us the way to get there.

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## visom

vostok said:


> No need to exaggerate . In the Soviet Union , people lived with dignity. Ordinary workers could have a motorboat, country houses . Public schools in the USSR given education at the level of elite private schools of the West. The medicine was all-available and free of charge. Pensioners pensions were not just enough to live , but also to help the children and for grandchildren's gifts .
> There was no homeless and unemployed. Apartments were given for free.
> Everybody subscribed many magazines - scientific, technical, humorous , it was worth some cents only. People were educated , proud , fun , singing songs at work. Crime was almost not there.
> It is difficult to imagine that life. Everything was absolutely , totally different.


As I've said, communism does have its good sides but every communist country currently are not doing so well economy wise and have low GDP per capita. 


visom said:


> As I've said, communism does have its good sides but every communist country currently are not doing so well economy wise and have low GDP per capita.





elis said:


> Communism is created by the jews (Marx, Lenine, Trotsky...) to divide Korea and Vietnam


well... it did divide korea and vietnam but i don't think it was created for that sole reason

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## Minjitta

vostok said:


> As a result of the extremely complex operation of Western secret services Gorbachev came to power - an agent of the West. He put on all the top positions the same traitors like him. In addition, he brought to power the traitors in almost all countries of the socialist bloc - except Cuba and Vietnam.


So how are the people in Russia think about Communist VS the West now? do they regrets what Gorbachev did to Russia?
The West are moving toward Communist slowly, with hundred of years from now we as the human on earth all will naturally be communist. No wars no separation between us human. We will all have 1 thing in common Space Exploration and human evolution.

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## vostok

Minjitta said:


> So how are the people in Russia think about Communist VS the West now? do they regrets what Gorbachev did to Russia?
> The West are moving toward Communist slowly, with hundred of years from now we as the human on earth all will naturally be communist. No wars no separation between us human. We will all have 1 thing in common Space Exploration and human evolution.


Extremely regrets. Many curse him as the greatest Russian traitor of all time.

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## elis

visom said:


> well... it did divide korea and vietnam but i don't think it was created for that sole reason


They wanted to conquer the world with their internationalist & totalitarian communism, but they failed thanks to Staline.

The communist Beast that they have created continued to kill millions of people.

They are back with the internationalist & totalitarian NWO to enslave the goyims again, but this time it's serious as they have their land so they want to install the new world capital in Jerusalem


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## yue10

communism is a sick ideology promoting internationalism as the frog leg dude said, it is best for VN to be fascist

also true communism never failed since Marxist theory was never followed but instead it was Leninist vanguard revolution ok


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> New recruit soldiers and their smile:
> 
> 
> And their "buffet" meal:


that is nice, like a restautant



yue10 said:


> communism is a sick ideology promoting internationalism as the frog leg dude said, it is best for VN to be *fascist*
> 
> also true communism never failed since Marxist theory was never followed but instead it was Leninist vanguard revolution ok


fascism? do you have more wishes?



vostok said:


> Extremely regrets. Many curse him as the *greatest Russian traitor* of all time.


did the collapse of the Soviet Union not become unavoidable, after the arms race had ruined the economy? Mikhail Gorbachev was just a undertaker.


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Time to expand our power in Asia like in 1979, not time to keep balance, China is too weak and coward, she is not deserve as our worthy opponent


don´t provoke them too much mate with such comment


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## vostok

Viet said:


> did the collapse of the Soviet Union not become unavoidable, after the arms race had ruined the economy? Mikhail Gorbachev was just a undertaker.


This is one of the excuses that invented to justify the betrayal.
If someone goes out of the window and then you can certainly say that it was inevitable. But really - it was not. He could go to other 1000 places, instead of a window.


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## yue10

Viet said:


> that is nice, like a restautant
> 
> fascism? do you have more wishes?
> 
> did the collapse of the Soviet Union not become unavoidable, after the arms race had ruined the economy? Mikhail Gorbachev was just a undertaker.


what is your problem of fascism my Annam friend?

new flag of VN


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## Tanja

*On 12-11-2013, Russian President Vladimir Putin arrived in at Hanoi – Vietnam‘s capital, beginning a one-day State-level visit to Viet Nam at the invitation of State President Truong Tan Sang*
*This visiting is aimed at boosting the comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries*

FNOTW: Russia and Vietnam – A comprehensive cooperation

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## Viet

*India begins training 500 Vietnam sailors in submarine warfare*

English.news.cn 2013-11-23 15:47:15

 























NEW DELHi, Nov. 23 (Xinhua) -- India has begun training of some 500 Vietnamese sailors in the art of submarine warfare operations, reported local daily The Times of India Saturday.

During talks between Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and visiting Vietnamese Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong last Wednesday, it was decided that India will transfer four naval offshore patral vessels to Vietnam under a 100 million U.S. dollar credit line, said the newspaper.

The training of Vietnamese sailors in "comprehensive underwater combat operations" at Indian Navy's submarine school INS Satavahana in Visakhapatnam, south India, is a major initiative in an emerging strategic partnership between Delhi and Hanoi, said the paper.

"(Indian) Defense Minister A. K. Antony has promised all help to Vietnam for capacity building of its armed forces. There are already a couple of hundred Vietnamese officers and sailors, along with interpreters (in India). Over 500 Vietnamese sailors will be trained in batches by the Indian Navy," the newspaper quoted a defense ministry official as saying.

"Indian will continue to assist Vietnam in modernization and training of its defense and security forces, including through 100 million U.S. dollar line of credit for defense purchases," said the Indian prime minister earlier.

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## Soryu

Vietnamese coast guard ships in operation:






VPA's S-300PMU-2 deployed with full load in exercise:

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## Soryu

The second ship, DN-2000 (with hangar) of Vietnamese coast guard prepared to launch:

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## IndoCarib

*Vietnam formally requested India to supply the Indo-Russian BrahMos cruise missiles at a meeting in New Delhi, informed sources told RIR. The request was made when Vietnam Communist party general secretary Nguyen Phu Trong visited the Indian capital, the sources said, adding that the Southeast Asian country was looking at enhancing security cooperation with India. *

Informal negotiations had been going between the countries for the joint Indo-Russian missiles that are being manufactured in India. Vietnam’s interest was renewed as a plan between Russia and the country to jointly produce a modified anti-ship missile is moving a slow pace, the sources told RIR. While Moscow and Hanoi to develop a joint missile analogous to Russia's Kh-35 Uran, using BrahMos as a model, Vietnam is looking at India to supply the missiles to meet its immediate requirement. It remains unclear whether India will be able to supply the missiles in the near future.

BrahMos officials declined to comment on the negotiations between India and Vietnam.

*During Phu Trong’s visits, requests were also made to India for submarine training and for conversion training for Vietnamese pilots to fly Sukhoi-30 aircrafts. Sources told RIR that India would be ready to supply the missiles, as it was looking for international buyers and countries like Malaysia and Indonesia had already expressed interests. They added that New Delhi was also ready to provide training for Vietnamese pilots but were cautious about further military cooperation keeping the China factor in mind. Beijing has been viewing India’s growing presence in Vietnam with a degree of suspicion, the sources added. India and Vietnam have traditionally maintained friendly and cordial relations and leading analysts suggest that the countries could be at the forefront of *a new kind of non-aligned movement*.*

BrahMos cruise missiles have been adopted by India's Army and the Navy’s surface ships. The Indian Air Force has also ordered a batch of land-based missiles. Work is also underway to adapt the missile to Su-30MKI planes used by the Indian Air Force. BrahMos is an acronym of the two rivers: Brahmaputra in India and Moskva in Russia.

Vietnam looking to purchase BrahMos cruise missiles | Russia & India Report

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## ankit14mit

Good for Everyone India , Russia and vietnam

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## HunterKiller

IndoCarib said:


> * They added that New Delhi was also ready to provide training for Vietnamese pilots but were cautious about further military cooperation keeping the China factor in mind.*



why should we stop co-operating with Vietnam...? Is China stopping its cooperation with BDesh...? 

Such morons are running the country ..... .. ..

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## Viet

I heard this story 2 years ago, but nothing has materialized. I´m afraid, again, this time is not going to happen as Chinese surely try everything (including issuing threats) to discourage India to sell the rockets to Vietnam.

By the way, it is better if Vietnam could convince India and Russia to sell the technology, so that we can self produce.


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## IndoCarib

Viet said:


> I heard this story 2 years ago, but nothing has materialized. I´m afraid, again, this time is not going to happen as Chinese surely try everything (including issuing threats) to discourage India to sell the rockets to Vietnam.
> 
> *By the way, it is better if Vietnam could convince India and Russia to sell the technology, so that we can self produce*.


 
Russia and Vietnam to develop a joint missile analogous to Russia's Kh-35 Uran, using BrahMos as a model. The present request for Brahmos is only to meet its immediate requirement.


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## Soryu

BrahMos as Model for joint missile develop by Russia and Vietnam !? 
I really don't understand these words !???


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## Malik Alashter

cnleio said:


> Not ours, obviousely BeiJing government never support Free Syria Army. China didn't sell HJ-8 and QW-2 missile to them, but some West and Arab country ever bought China weapons or sent their weapons stock to rebel fighters in Syria.
> 
> Well the international weapons market is complex, u only know who buy the weapon but can not judge who will use them in hands. China never export weapons to any Rebel Army, but black market sell them in Syria.


No its Muslim country who did no doubt now the Q is who possess these weapons which Muslim country does? I know for sure Pakistan has them?!.


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## DaiViet

> BrahMos as Model for joint missile develop by Russia and Vietnam !?
> I really don't understand these words !???



It means, the joint similar to Russia and India cooperation when developing Brahmos. However, the joint is not to develop another Brahmos but different type of missile customize on Vietnam needs. If I am not wrong, Vietnam needs a smaller scale of missile capable of stealth and anti-warship.

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## DaiViet

AViet said:


> Communism in Soviet-style was dead, but are democracies in India, the Phillipines, Liberia, Mali, Bangladesh,... any better? They are all mature democracies (Liberia have had US-style government for over 200 years). At least in Soviet-style communism, people was nearly universally educated, well-fed and living in civilized manner.
> 
> Every type of governing have its pro- and cons. No type will be absolutely dominating, or inherently good or bad. That the Oriental philosophy. The success depends much on people who control and govern the system.


You dont need a Democracy or Communism to move country progress. All you need is Patriotism and Liberalism( reform minded ), any government system would work. Do you know why Germany under Hitler was ahead of other Europe and threaten the entire Europe existence? Patriotism made them so strong. Similar to Japan they was ahead of all Asia, also their Patriotism and Reform minded made it strong. You must also differentiate between Patriotism and Extremism. Patriotism = love the country and placed country interest above self interests. Extremist = terrorist Muslim believe in things non-sense.

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## Viet

DaiViet said:


> It means, the joint similar to Russia and India cooperation when developing Brahmos. However, the joint is not to develop another Brahmos but different type of missile customize on Vietnam needs. If I am not wrong, Vietnam needs a smaller scale of missile capable of stealth and anti-warship.


yes, what VN army needs is a high performance supersonic antiship missiles. We buy *Yakhonts *from Russia. But it is much better if we can self produce them, and fire the rockets from the shore, warships or jets (such as from _Su-30MK2)_.

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## Viet

Russia, Vietnam agreed to enhance cooperation in navy and science-technology (strategic defence dialogue in Russia on December 12, 2013)






HANOI, Vietnam (Dec. 10, 2013) - U.S. Pacific Commander, Admiral Samuel J. Locklear meets with Director General of the Institute for Defense Strategy, Lt Gen Nguyen Chien during his first visit to Vietnam. (Photo by Army SGT Sabrina Black, U.S. Pacific Command Public Affairs) ...

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## Soryu

*HMS Daring visit Tien Sa naval base in this morning*.

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## BoQ77

update on 17-Dec - the rolldock sea location , that carrying the 1st Kilo-class sub to Cam Ranh Vietnam

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## VietHome

This is the short list of Vietnam's Military capabilituies by the end of this year and the beginning of 2014.

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## BoQ77

Rolldock sea arrived Singapore few min ago.

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## Viet

_cargo vessel with submarine HQ 182 Hanoi heading to Cam Ranh port_








_Voice of Russia reported Zelenodolsk Shipyard has completed the first phase of building the third Gepard frigate: hull and superstructure _

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## ViXuyen

After more than one month of sea voyage from St. Petersburg, the first Kilo-class submarine has arrived at Cam Ranh Bay.

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## visom

ViXuyen said:


> After more than one month of sea voyage from St. Petersburg, the first Kilo-class submarine has arrived at Cam Ranh Bay.


I don't want to go off-topic but your avatar scares me.


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## ViXuyen

December 31, 2013 the first Kilo-class submarine has arrived at Cam Ranh Bay

Chùm ảnh tàu Rolldock Sea vận chuyển tàu ngầm Hà Nội đang neo đậu ở Cam Ranh | Chính trị - Xã hội | Thanh Niên Online

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## ViXuyen



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## Viet

_the crew of the first submarine HQ 182 Hanoi _

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## BoQ77

Vietnam Navy submarine under the SCS surface from now on ...
















and its claws

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## Viet

a major milestone for the navy


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## NiceGuy

ViXuyen said:


>


seem like Israel allows us to produce Galil ACE

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## NiceGuy

_



_
_LRAD 1000Xi













VN marrine police vessel equipped with LRAD 1000Xi



The superior voice intelligibility and clarity of the *LRAD 1000Xi* provides powerful broadcasts that achieve maximum sound projection and penetration beyond 3,000 meters. The extended frequency range of the LRAD-X ensures voice commands will be clearly understood. 

The LRAD 1000Xi uses directionality and focused acoustic output to clearly transmit critical information, instructions and warnings up to distances of 3,000 meters in many environments. Through the use of powerful voice commands and deterrent tones, large safety zones can be created while determining the intent and influencing the behavior of an intruder. 

LRAD 1000Xi can be manually operated to provide long distance hailing and warning.

*Features*



Longer stand-off distances for increased asset protection
Larger coverage with fewer personnel
Determination of intent of groups or individuals from extended distances
Maritime vessels to clearly and forcefully communicate with small vessels that pose a threat
Perimeter/Infrastructure protection for oil and gas platforms, mining operations, and chemical/power plants

Transmitting bird distress calls to repel targeted birds from crops, buildings, and airports

Enforcement of safety zones for maritime vessels



*LRAD System Specifications*
ACOUSTIC PERFORMANCE
Maximum Continuous Output153dB SPL @ 1 meter, A-weighted
Beam Width+/- 15° at 1 kHz
Communications RangeHighly intelligible speech transmissions over 3000 meters; *Max range of 1250 meters over 88 dB of background noise.

MECHANICAL
Emitter Array Dimension36” W x 40“ H x 13” D
Electronics Module Dimension11” W x 5.5“ H x 2” D
Weight87 lbs
ConstructionCarbon fiber; 6061 Aluminum
stainless steel, 316 Stainless hardwareLRAD Corporation - LRAD 1000Xi Long Range Acoustic Device

Click to expand...

_

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## visom

With all the military hardware that Vietnam is purchasing, do they reverse engineer them to try to develop their own?


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## BoQ77

If we want to develop weapon ourselve, we officially request for licence, pal !!!


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## Soryu

HQ-182 "Hà Hội" in Cam Ranh Bay:

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## Reashot Xigwin

Vietnam Consider Purchasing T-90 Tanks from Russia 





_ T-90 main battle tank (photo : Army Technology)_

Vietnam Ministry of Defense is considering the possibility to upgrade T-72 tanks out there and buy a new rise of the Russian T-90, according to Voice of Russia 10.1 days.

Storage tanks of Vietnam has long been in need of improvement and now consists mainly of type T-72 and T-55 Soviet production, electronic portal i-Mash.ru said.

Vietnam Ministry of Defense is considering the possibility of upgrading the T-72 tank and buy a new tank T-90. Military experts studied the T-90 tank during military exercises in India.

Russian tanks meet the requirements of the military in Vietnam. However, it would have a hard time to unify the entire tank storage. To reduce the cost of maintenance, the tank unit must be re-armed with new combat vehicles, accompanied by the complexity of organization and logistics.

The T-90 is the upgraded version of the T-72. The T-90 weighs 47.5 tons, range 550-700 km. Vehicles equipped with 1 125 mm guns, one 12.7 mm machine guns, one 7.62 mm machine guns, more bullets smoke launchers. Be explosion-proof armored vehicles, thermal imaging systems, laser sight, electronic jamming system against anti-tank missiles.
From 2011 the Russian army stops ordering the T-90, waiting for a more modern type of T-99 (from 2020).

(BaoMoi)

*Friday, January 10, 2013 10:14 AM*
*Vietnam would like to buy Russian-made T-90 main battle tanks to increase its military power. *
According to the website Voice of Russia, Vietnam would like to buy Russian-made main battle tank *T-90*. Vietnam wants to equip its armed forces with modern main battle tanks to response about the increase of military power from its neighboring countries.
*


The latest upgrade of **T-90** Russian-made main battle tank, the T-90S, was showed at Russian Arms Expo defense exhibition, September 2013, in Russia.*
Vietnamese armed forces are currently equipped with old tanks delivered by Russia and China, the Russian *T-55* and *T-62*, and the Chinese-made *Type 59*.

The *T-90* is the latest generation of Russian-made main battle tank. It is currently the most modern tank in service with the Russian Ground Forces and Naval Infantry.

At the Defense Exhibition Russian Arms Expo 2013, the Russian Defense Company Uralvagonzavod has presented the latest upgrade of *T-90* main battle tank, the *T-90S also called T-90MS*.

In 2001, India bought 310 T-90S tanks from Russia, of which 120 were delivered complete, 90 in semi-knocked down kits, and 100 in completely knocked down kits. The T-90 was selected because it is a direct development of the *T-72* that India already employs with 60% logistics commonality with T-90 simplifying training and maintenance.

Russia has long been Vietnam’s top supplier of weapon and military equipment. In August 2013, Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang was in Russia to boost military ties, in line with the two countries’ efforts to build on a strategic partnership they signed last year.

In 2012, Vietnam signed a deal to borrow $8 billion from Russia to build its first nuclear power plant. Russian state-run utility and nuclear energy company Rosatom is expected to start the project next year, with operations ready in 2020. 

In 2009 Vietnam ordered six Kilo-class, diesel-electric submarines, the first of which is scheduled to go into service this month, Mr. Hardy said. Since 2009 Vietnam has also acquired 20 Sukhoi *Su-30MK2* fighter aircraft, Svetlyak-class (Project 1041.2) fast attack craft, and Gepard frigates from Russia, he said.

Vietnam doesn’t publicize its defense budget for the recent years as it often considers military activities to be state secrets. The defense budget was last disclosed in the 2009 Defense White Paper, reaching $1.46 billion in 2008, equal to 1.8% of GDP that year.

Vietnam would like to buy Russian-made T-90 main battle tanks to increase its military power 1001141Â -Â Army Recognition

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## Viet

_female traffic police officers_






_anti aircraft missiles on a Spratly island_





_the second Kilo sub arrives Vietnam later this month, the third is said to come later this year._

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> _anti aircraft missiles on a Spratly island_


In Spartly Islands ? I don't think so, Vietnamese Government never allow heavy weapon for defense Islands show off to public until now . Where's you get this picture ?


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## Viet

Soryu said:


> In Spartly Islands ? I don't think so, Vietnamese Government never allow heavy weapon for defense Islands show off to public until now . Where's you get this picture ?


Việt Nam tăng năng lực nghiên cứu, phát triển quân sự bảo vệ Biển Đông - Giáo dục Quốc phòng - Giáo dục Việt Nam


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Việt Nam tăng năng lực nghiên cứu, phát triển quân sự bảo vệ Biển Đông - Giáo dục Quốc phòng - Giáo dục Việt Nam


The note of that picture did not has the source, so I believe that's just another fake and mess info created by tabloids like giaoduc.net.vn ( we call them "lều báo" in Vietnamese)


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## Viva_Viet

Soryu said:


> The note of that picture did not has the source, so I believe that's just another fake and mess info created by tabloids like giaoduc.net.vn ( we call them "lều báo" in Vietnamese)


As I know This pic from Chinese website


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## Viva_Viet

> *U.S. vets return North Vietnamese soldier's helmet to family*
> *Jan. 14, 2014 - 06:00AM |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam veterans John Abbey, front left, Fred Grimm, front right, Daniel Gregg, second row left, and Mike Breuker, second row right, carry a helmet belonging to slain North Vietnamese soldier Bui Duc Hung, who was killed in the war, in Huong Non village, on Jan. 14. The helmet, which had been kept as a war souvenir by an American veteran for 46 years, was returned to Hung's family. (Tran Van Minh/AP)
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZOOM
> *An image of a dove scratched onto the inner rim of a dented helmet belonging to Bui Duc Hung, a North Vietnamese soldier who died during the Vietnam War, is seen on Jan. 14. (Tran Van Minh/AP)*
> 
> *HUONG NON, VIETNAM* — In 1968, young American soldier John Wast was scouring a battlefield in central Vietnam for weapons and intelligence when an enemy helmet with an image of a dove scratched onto it caught his eye. He tied it to his rucksack, and five months later took it home as a war souvenir, where for 46 years it had sat on a shelf.
> 
> When a U.S. veterans’ charity approached him asking whether he would like to see the helmet returned to the family of its onetime owner, he said yes, so long as it didn’t cause them any more pain. The group, the Development of Vietnam Endeavors Fund, located the family of the soldier, Bui Duc Hung, who was killed in the war, his remains never recovered.
> 
> On Tuesday, four U.S. veterans returned the helmet in a ceremony in the Hung’s family’s village 45 miles northwest of Hanoi that stressed the need for peace and reconciliation.
> 
> “This is a very sacred moment for my extended family,” said Bui Duc Duc, the 52-year-old nephew of the slain solider.
> 
> Duc wept as the helmet was placed in front of a family altar in his house. The Americans, along with around 100 villagers and local officials gathered for the ceremony, looked on. A bust of Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam’s victorious war time leader, was also in the room.
> 
> “We consider this helmet as part of him and we will keep as a reminder for our family’s future generations,” he said.
> 
> Up to 3 million Vietnamese were killed in the war, which the United States undertook to stop the spread of Communism in Southeast Asia.
> 
> Wast, a 67-year-old from Toledo, Ohio, didn’t travel back to Vietnam. But in a statement that was read out at the ceremony, Wast said that Hung had “fought with skill and courage.”
> 
> “The time has now come for me to return this helmet to those who knew and cared for Bui Duc Hung,” he said. “I do this with thoughts of love and peace to you all.”
> U.S. vets return North Vietnamese soldier's helmet to family | Army Times | armytimes.com


its time for US to apologize to VN now, we r civilized people, we must say sorry when we do something wrong

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## Viet

handover ceremony of HQ 182-Hanoi at Cam Ranh Port, Jan. 15, 2014

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## Reashot Xigwin

* Self-Propelled Gun Made in Vietnam *





105mm truck mounted howitzer made in Vietnam (all photos : kienthuc, datviet)

(Kienthuc.net.vn) - self-propelled gun built by Vietnam itself is placed on the base chassis truck tires, equipped with 105mm caliber artillery.

Recently, the newspaper Quân đội Nhân dân published the article “Thượng tướng Đỗ Bá Tỵ chỉ đạo bắn kỹ thuật, chiến thuật các loại hỏa lực tại Quân khu 5”. It is worth noting that newspapers have published photographs of the self-propelled gun is annotated: "Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty and Department of Defense missions test 105 self-propelled artillery."




Observe the image, we can see here is most likely due to self-propelled guns Vietnam to design and manufacture. Artillery was placed on a truck chassis military tires (which may be the Zil car or Kamaz, Ural). Guns used 105mm caliber, high possibility that M101 105mm guns produced by the U.S., which seized our troops after 1975. Also, the Soviet artillery is most size-152mm 122-130.

Size 105mm M101 howitzer designed by American producers from the 2nd World War, weighs 2.26 tons, 5.94 m long, equipped with 105mm barrel size for a range of 11.2 km. Fireworks can shoot shooting modes directly or indirectly, high accuracy, suitable for supporting infantry.



Clearly not self-propelled guns can be equipped with automatic reload mechanism or fire control system provides precision artillery than not?

Anyway, we are self-made self-propelled artillery is good news, help strengthen the ground forces are needed to modernize.
Currently, the army equipped with artillery also had self-propelled artillery (cannons 2S1, 2S3 Soviet Union) but not so many.



105mm self-propelled gun is now on display at the military training center National 2. Where the shoot will take place the kinds of firepower in staffing levels infantry divisions to serve the conference and draw experience from the fire building, sports training and military schools will be held tomorrow 15/1.

Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, member of the Party Central Committee, Standing Member of the Central Military Commission, Chief of General Staff, Deputy Defense Minister to lead delegation Department of Defense direct the shoot new engineering curriculum weapons in staffing levels Infantry Division.
(Kien Thuc)

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## Viet

not sure if it is a repost?

Project 1241.8

Coming soon, currently under sea trail, 4 new self produced 550 tonnes Molniya guided missile corvettes, equipped with up to 16 Uran subsonic anti-ship missiles (range 130 kilometers, able to sink 5,000 tonnes enemy vessels), one AK-176M, two rapid fire guns AK-630M, low-to-air missiles Igla-1M.

power: combined diesel gas turbines
radar: fire-control radar for anti-ship missile Garpun-Bal-E, fire control radar MR-123 Vympel, and the on top target search radar MR 352 positiv-E
top speed 38 knots, sailing range up to 2,400 miles, 44 crew members

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## Reashot Xigwin

* Missile Defense Strategy of Vietnam Covers Spratly Islands *





Redut 4K44 mobile coastal defense missile (all photos : BaoMoi) 

With a range of over 400 km, covering the whole of the Spratly Islands Vietnam, combined REDUT-M missile defense strategy archipelago Vietnam.




Orders alarm rang ... In less than 5 minutes, the vehicle missile launchers rumbled out into combat positions. Missile launch tubes longer than 10m rapid rise into the air direction. Officers shoot driver in the lead car quickly deploy equipment directive nosing search target, the crew informed of rang loudly determine coordinates, the target location is key enemy ships are currently marine area infringe on the sovereignty of Vietnam. Startup fuel hissed sharply blown rock grouting rear platform, P-35 missile is ready to receive commands ... " Zoom ".




It's been reported Infonet images published March 17/1 for rehearsals of rocket 679 Union Navy in Hai Phong, the unit is equipped with missile REDUT-M, radio control Skala-E, using sea missiles on P-35, P-28, P-28M ... is a weapon in the weapons system powering strategy of the Vietnam People's Navy.




REDUT missile - M missiles used for marine - P-35, P-28, P-28M ... In particular, P-35 missile has a range of over 400 km technique, are considered in the strategic missiles tasked to protect the island Vietnam.




Anti-ship cruise missiles P-35 is the main component of the missile defense system the coast range REDUT developed by the Soviet Union in the 1960s.




Name of P-35 has a massive size. It has a length of 10.2 m, a body diameter of nearly 1m wingspan of 2.6 m (can be folded in tubes), weighing up to 4.5 tonnes reporters. In particular, P-35 warhead assembly weighs 1 ton of explosives often enough sinking large warships (including carrier).




To launch missiles, 4 foot hydraulic cylinder is activated to position the car fixed launcher. Larger pipe is a hydraulic lift at an angle other than 20 degrees to the surface of the vehicle launch.




Then, rocket launchers are pushed out by the starter motor speed solid fuel. In certain height, turbine KRD-26 jet activates target missiles, supersonic cruise speed (Mach 1.4), a range of over 400 km. With this range, the P-35 was considered anti-ship missiles have a range of Vietnam and Southeast Asia.




Guided missile combines inertial navigation systems, calibration parameters throughout the journey and active radar in the last phase.

The command is sent to the guided missile command from the ground station via the image of the missile radar provided via a video data link.




From missile radar images provided , the control officer will identify and target the preferred choice, and then lock the target by the missile's active radar. In the absence of guidance from the support of reconnaissance aircraft , missile control officer will launch 3-4 missiles simultaneously.

One of the missiles will be controlled soar higher than the other missiles. The missile will use its radar to guide the missile attack left a ship or a vessel is detected by the radar planes.
(BaoMoi)

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## ViXuyen

P-14 (Orobona-14)

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## BDforever

Viet said:


> not sure if it is a repost?
> 
> Project 1241.8
> 
> Coming soon, currently under sea trail, 4 new self produced 550 tonnes Molniya guided missile corvettes, equipped with up to 16 Uran subsonic anti-ship missiles (range 130 kilometers, able to sink 5,000 tonnes enemy vessels), one AK-176M, two rapid fire guns AK-630M, low-to-air missiles Igla-1M.
> 
> power: combined diesel gas turbines
> radar: fire-control radar for anti-ship missile Garpun-Bal-E, fire control radar MR-123 Vympel, and the on top target search radar MR 352 positiv-E
> top speed 38 knots, sailing range up to 2,400 miles, 44 crew members


is it made in vietnam ?

Vietnam and Bangladesh to promote military training cooperation — Vietmaz

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## Viet

BDforever said:


> is it made in vietnam ?
> 
> Vietnam and Bangladesh to promote military training cooperation — Vietmaz


yes, the Molniya guided missile corvettes are built in a Vietnamese shipyard: Ba Son Company






besides, we have 2 new Vietnam-made highspeed gun boats (TT-400 TP class). 1 more coming soon. built by Hong Ha company.




specs:

Displacement: 480 tons full load
Length: 54.16 metres
Beam: 9.16 metres
Speed: up to 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)
Range: 2,500 miles
Endurance: 30 days
Crew: 28 
radar: MR-123/176 Vympel/Bass Tilt, Bass Tilt AK-630 fire-control
Armament:

1 x 76.2mm AK-176 main gun
1 x 30mm AK-630 CIWS
16 x 9K38 Igla missile[1]

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## Viet

ready for sea trail, VN-made mini sub Truong Sa 1 (built by Quoc Hoa Mechanical Company)



















*specs:*
8.8 meters long, 3 meters wide, displacement of 12 tonnes
90 PS diesel engine, 15 days without refueling
air independent propulsion (AIP)
advanced navigation equipment (radar, GPS and periscope, etc.)
can stay submerged for 15 hours and travel at an average speed of 40 kilometers per hour
operating radius of 800km
can dive to a depth of 50 meters and stay on sea bed
cost: $15,000

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## Reashot Xigwin

Special on Viet Sub:
 
*

*
*http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2014/01/hq-185-da-nang-submarine-will-be.html*

* Vietnamese Homemade Mini-Submarine Operates Well on Trial  *




The mini submarine has 8.8 meters long and 3 meters wide and has a displacement of 12 tonnes when it is submerged and 9.2 tonnes when it is on the surface. (photos : DatViet, VoV)
HANOI (Xinhua) -- After one week on trial, a private mini-submarine made by a Vietnamese mechanic can now work perfectly with its full functions.
Nguyen Quoc Hoa, the one who performed the mini-submarine production, said on Local Lao Dong (Labor) online newspaper Thursday that machinery parts inside the mini-submarine operates well as originally designed.



"Successful tests have been carried out with internal engines of the mini-vessel, including generator system, oxygen supply system, air filter and radar system," said Hoa.



Specifically, the submarine managed to apply the advanced Air Independent Propulsion technology while diving, Hoa added.
Hoa, a director of an engineering company in Vietnam's northern Thai Binh province, some 110 km southeast from capital Hanoi, started to produce a mini-submarine in early 2013.



According to Hoa's design, the submarine has a 12-ton displacement, and is able to operate at a maximum depth of 50 meters and at a range of 800 km for 15 hours.
The testing mini-submarine is designed to work at estuaries or shallow water level for civilian purposes of marine natural resources research, and environmental protection, said Hoa.
(Xinhua)

*http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2014/01/hq-185-da-nang-submarine-will-be.html*
*HQ-185 Da Nang Submarine will be Launched in 28/3 *




Fourth Vietnamese Navy submarine HQ-185 Da Nang will be launched on 28 March 2014 (photo : TTXVN)
636.1 Kilo submarine of the Vietnamese Navy HQ-185 Da Nang will be launched at Verfi Admiralty Shipyards on 3/28 coming, Interfax-AVN news agency quoted sources Information in Russian shipbuilding industry said.
The source also revealed that, Kilo submarines HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh was taken to a dedicated jetty in Kaliningrad on Tuesday 1/18, where it will be put on a barge prepared to carry out the implementation of Vietnam's Cam Ranh Bay.

According to sources, the work ahead will be a period of 6 weeks to submarines. Ho Chi Minh City completed the voyage from Kaliningrad on the mother ship to Cam Ranh military port. The time for half expected to dock early May 3/2014.

Join submarine escort Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam this time 17 support staff, technical Verfi Admiralty Shipyards and transport units.

The source told Interfax, in 2014, the third Kilo-184 HQ Hai Phong will also be handed over to the Vietnam Navy. Meanwhile, plans to launch, and launch the handover of the Kilo fourth, fifth and sixth in a series of six submarines for Vietnam will still maintain the specified schedule.

Currently, the first 636.1 Kilo submarine is 182 HQ Hanoi. Vietnam Navy have been receiving the second of which HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh may have set off the Cam Ranh naval base. The HQ-184 Haiphong was launched in 28/08/2013 and is in the process of testing plant. Series 3 is finally Kilo HQ-185 Da Nang, HQ-186 Khanh Hoa is expected to be handed over to Vietnam in 2015 and the last one - HQ-187 Ba Ria Vung Tau handover in 2016.
(DatViet)

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## Reashot Xigwin

* Vietnam will Replace Russian Kalashnikovs with Israeli "Galil" *




Galil ACE machines were developed based on the Israeli Galil, which in turn was based on the Kalashnikov. Rate this weapon is 650 rounds per minute, and ─ sighting range of about 500 meters. Equips automatic box magazine 25 or 30 rounds.
Moscow. INTERFAX.RU - Israeli company Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Launches Vietnam factory to manufacture assault rifles (assault rifles) "Galil" (Galil) 31 ACE models (compact) and ACE 32, which in the future will replace Kalashnikovs.



About the beginning of the local assembly of two types of machines, Israeli television channel said the Ministry of Defence of Vietnam QPVN in a report on the visit of Deputy Defense Minister Lieutenant General Nguyen Thanh Chung Z111 on a weapons factory in Thanh Hoa.

The report noted that in the near future will be deployed Israeli mass production machines, which will gradually replace the Russian AK-47, were armed with the Vietnamese army.



Earlier, Israeli news portal "Globe Israel" also reported that the company won the tender IWI and awarded a contract worth $ 100 million to build a plant in Vietnam to produce their machines.
(Interfax)

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## CN.Black

Viet said:


> ready for sea trail, VN-made mini sub Truong Sa 1 (built by Quoc Hoa Mechanical Company)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *specs:*
> 8.8 meters long, 3 meters wide, displacement of 12 tonnes
> 90 PS diesel engine, 15 days without refueling
> air independent propulsion (AIP)
> advanced navigation equipment (radar, GPS and periscope, etc.)
> can stay submerged for 15 hours and travel at an average speed of 40 kilometers per hour
> operating radius of 800km
> can dive to a depth of 50 meters and stay on sea bed
> cost: $15,000


I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your "submarine",Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..............................


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## Reashot Xigwin

CN.Black said:


> I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your "submarine",Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..............................



I know right


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## elis

Funny when Galil are based on Kalash
JEWS are fake genius, they invent nothing. Everything is taken from their unconditionnal american slaves

I've told that JEW USA want to use Vietnam against China
They will end the war all clean, like the war in Syria

They will also get you all mad about muslims indonesians

Good luck Vietnam, JEW USA have always betrayed their allies (Al Qaeda)


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> * Vietnam will Replace Russian Kalashnikovs with Israeli "Galil" *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Galil ACE machines were developed based on the Israeli Galil, which in turn was based on the Kalashnikov. Rate this weapon is 650 rounds per minute, and ─ sighting range of about 500 meters. Equips automatic box magazine 25 or 30 rounds.
> Moscow. INTERFAX.RU - Israeli company Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Launches Vietnam factory to manufacture assault rifles (assault rifles) "Galil" (Galil) 31 ACE models (compact) and ACE 32, which in the future will replace Kalashnikovs.
> 
> About the beginning of the local assembly of two types of machines, Israeli television channel said the Ministry of Defence of Vietnam QPVN in a report on the visit of Deputy Defense Minister Lieutenant General Nguyen Thanh Chung Z111 on a weapons factory in Thanh Hoa.
> 
> The report noted that in the near future will be deployed Israeli mass production machines, which will gradually replace the Russian AK-47, were armed with the Vietnamese army.
> 
> Earlier, Israeli news portal "Globe Israel" also reported that the company won the tender IWI and awarded a contract worth $ 100 million to build a plant in Vietnam to produce their machines.
> (Interfax)


wow the Galil rifle looks cool. Kalashnikov belongs to museum.



CN.Black said:


> I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your "submarine",Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..............................


will look different if you imagine the minisub being painted with a cool color.






elis said:


> Funny when Galil are based on Kalash
> JEWS are fake genius, they invent nothing. Everything is taken from their unconditionnal american slaves
> 
> I've told that JEW USA want to use Vietnam against China
> They will end the war all clean, like the war in Syria
> 
> They will also get you all mad about muslims indonesians
> 
> Good luck Vietnam, JEW USA have always betrayed their allies (Al Qaeda)


don´t talk nonsense. you mention the Jews nearly in every post.


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## Reashot Xigwin

* The Second Export Submarine "Ho Chi Minh" Left "Admiralty Shipyards" and Sent to Vietnam *




Second Vietnamese submarine HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh (photo : Phunu Today)

PETERSBURG (ARMS-TASS). The second export submarine HQ-183 "Ho Chi Minh" project 636.1 left "Admiralty Shipyards" and sent to Vietnam aboard a chartered Dutch freighter. This ARMS-Tass said the representative of the Russian military-industrial complex (MIC).

According to him, to transport submarine naval base Cam Ranh will take 45 days and will end in March this year.
Freighter aboard the submarine was escorted responsible deliverer "Admiralty Shipyards" with a team of six men and six crew members. Their mission is to support its operational mechanisms, as well as recharging the batteries.
After delivery to the customer will make test the submarine out to sea. To ensure it arrives in Vietnam warranty enterprise group consisting of 14 persons.

Total under contract from 2009 worth $ 2.1 billion for the Vietnamese Navy will be built six Kilo submarines Project 636.1. Currently, the "Admiralty Shipyards" in various stages of readiness are three other similar boats - the third, fourth and fifth.
Transfer to third boat HQ-185 "Haiphong" the customer will be held in November 2014, fourth to be launched in March, and in December will be docked fifth compartments.Bookmark sixth boat is planned for July this year.
Project 636.1 belong to the third generation of submarines designed CDB specialists Marine Engineering "Rubin" (St. Petersburg).

After receiving the first of six ordered submarines of Project 636.1 in January 2014 Vietnam joined the countries of Southeast Asia, forming a group of submarine forces. These include Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia.
(Arms Tass)

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## Soryu

Reashot Xigwin said:


> * Vietnam will Replace Russian Kalashnikovs with Israeli "Galil" *


replace ? 
No, like I know, VPA will choose AK-103 like standard assault rifle.
Galil will go for export.

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## NiceGuy

Soryu said:


> replace ?
> No, like I know, VPA will choose AK-103 like standard assault rifle.
> Galil will go for export.


We've confirmed to replace AK by Gali in the news already.


> *Galil thay AK-47 trong quân đội Việt Nam*
> 10:49 PM, 31/01/2014, Views: 7267 | By Nam Xương
> VietnamDefence -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Công ty Israel Weapon Industries (IWI), trước đây là phân hãng Magen của công ty Israel Military Industries Ltd. (IMI) của Israel sắp khai trương ở Việt Nam nhà máy sản xuất súng trường tiến công Galil.
> *Trong tương lai, Galil sẽ thay thế súng AK-47 hiện có trong trang bị của quân đội Việt Nam.*
> Galil thay AK-47 trong quân đội Việt Nam | Tin Việt Nam | Vietnamdefence

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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> We've confirmed to replace AK by Gali in the news already.


great. if I understand the vietnamdefence news correctly, two types of rifles will be produced in a $100m factory in Vietnam (most probably in the factory Z111 in Thanh Hóa). Interesting, the army has picked the Israeli rifles in an open bid. the other options were Russian and Chinese variants.

Galil ACE 32






Galil ACE 31

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## Soryu

NiceGuy said:


> We've confirmed to replace AK by Gali in the news already.


confirmed ?
No, bro, this news is not new, and it's not confirm we replace our standard rifle by Galil.
It's just said we produced Galil 31 and 32 with investment from IWI, and like I know, most of them will go for export.

I don't believe 100% in news portal, even vnexpress.net can be bullshjt ...


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## NiceGuy

Soryu said:


> confirmed ?
> No, bro, this news is not new, and it's not confirm we replace our standard rifle by Galil.
> It's just said we produced Galil 31 and 32 with investment from IWI, and like I know, most of them will go for export.
> 
> I don't believe 100% in news portal, even vnexpress.net can be bullshjt ...


Only Galil 31 and 32 can use AK-47 bullet, if we just want to produce for export , I think we'd better produce Gali models designed for use with the 7.62x51mm NATO rifle round.


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## Nike

NiceGuy said:


> Only Galil 31 and 32 can use AK-47 bullet, if we just want to produce for export , I think we'd better produce Gali models designed for use with the 7.62x51mm NATO rifle round.



No, 5,56 had a better a chance at export market than the battle rifle caliber like 7,62, even the India and China has using the same 5,56 caliber for their main assault rifle for their regular armies


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## NiceGuy

madokafc said:


> No, 5,56 had a better a chance at export market than the battle rifle caliber like 7,62, even the India and China has using the same 5,56 caliber for their main assault rifle for their regular armies


China wont buy this riffle coz it has its own one, and I think Indian prefer 7,62 .


> *India plans to procure subsonic ammunitions*
> By Editorial
> Fri Oct 21 2011, 13:25 PM
> The aim of the contract is to enhance the capabilities of Indian defence forces by providing* 7.62X51mm subsonic ammunition for 7.62MM Galil sniper rifl*e for the parachute (Special Forces) battalions of Indian Army.
> 
> The ammunition should be subsonic in nature so as to be used with the silencer on 7.62mm Sniper Rifle (Galil).
> 
> Project Description:
> 
> Indian Ministry of Defence is undertaking the 7.62X51mm subsonic ammunition contract. The contract is to procure 7.62X51mm subsonic ammunition for 7.62MM Galil sniper rifle.
> 
> Indian has issued the request for information (RFI) for 7.62X51mm subsonic ammunition for 7.62MM Galil sniper rifle with the view to identify probable qualified contractors who can undertake the project, the contractors are requested to forward information on the product by 31 Oct 2011.
> 
> The Galil is a family of Israeli small arms, consists of a line chambered for the intermediate 5.56x45mm NATO calibre with either the M193 or SS109 ball cartridge and several models designed for use with the 7.62x51mm NATO rifle round.
> India plans to procure subsonic ammunitions :: Strategic Defence Intelligence


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## Nike

NiceGuy said:


> China wont buy this riffle coz it has its own one, and I think Indian prefer 7,62 .



I just mention the examples, i think those two countries (India and China) had an established and matured armory and arsenal for their own use. What i am wanna to say is, if you want to marketing your home made assault rifles, 5,56 cal had a better chance than any battle rifle caliber to go through a deal. Just believe, even a company with no name such as PT PINDAD of Indonesia can sell their SS-1 and SS-2 assault rifles series to several third world countries such as Timor Leste, Cambodja, Ghana, Uganda and so on. So many countries has standardized their own assault rifles with 5,56 caliber for several important reasons. 

And for the news about the India you had quoted, you must read it carefully before posting that here, in those news has been mentioned if they just wanna to equip their Elite forces with some battle rifle even not all of them will be equipped with those Galil, you must know if regular army of India using Insas and IMI Tavor has using 5,56 caliber.

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## BoQ77

CN.Black said:


> I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your "submarine",Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..............................



Just align the "submarine" with manned submersible ... like Jiaolong, ...
They are for ocean exploration ... the submarine is for more function and standalone operation purpose.
It also equipped with AIP system for longtime of operation without support.


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## NiceGuy

> *Nga tăng mức độ nguy hiểm cho tên lửa chống tàu Kh-35E*
> A- A A+ ‹Đọc›
> Thích tắt quảng cáo hãy nhấn nút
> Truyền thông Nga dẫn thông báo của Công ty Tên lửa chiến thuật Nga cho biết biến thể mới nhất của tên lửa hành trình chống tàu Kh-35E vừa được thử nghiệm thành công.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ảnh minh họa_
> 
> Qua thử nghiệm, biến thể mới của Kh-35E đã thể hiện nhiều tính chất kỹ chiến thuật mới. Biến thể mới đã tiêu diệt mục tiêu ở tầm bắn lên đến 260km, tăng gấp đôi so với biến thể trước đó.
> 
> *Ngoài ra, tên lửa cũng đã giảm đáng kể khả năng bị phát hiện bởi hệ thống phòng không tàu chiến của đối phương. Với bộ phận tự dẫn đường thông minh, biến thể mới của Kh-35E có khả năng 4 lần thay đổi tuyến chuyển động trong quá trình bay đến mục tiêu.*
> 
> 
> 
> Tin tức nguồn: Nga tăng mức độ nguy hiểm cho tên lửa chống tàu Kh-35E. Sự Kiện Chính Trị - XãLuận.com Tin Nóng
> doc tin tuc www.xaluan.com


Russia upgrade Kh-35E anti-ship missile (up to 260 km)
.........................
missile also has the ability to significantly reduce detection by air defense systems of enemy warships. With self-guided parts smart, new variants of Kh-35E is capable of 4-line motion changes during flight to the target.

Luckily, VN also can produce this missile

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## Minjitta

CN.Black said:


> I couldn't stop laughing when I saw your "submarine",Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..............................


I know right its the local farmer that make this submarine. LOL keep LOL the government wont let sail to East Sea. LOL


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## Viet

Infantry Weapons
*Israel Weapon Industries to begin assault rifle production in Vietnam*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
03 February 2014


Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) has established in Vietnam a production facility to support its supply of Galil 31/32 ACE assault rifles to the Vietnam People's Army (VPA), state-run news agencies in Hanoi have reported.

The production unit will supply an unspecified number of the ACE assault rifles to "gradually replace" the AK-47s currently used by the VPA, said reports published last month.

The rifles are being manufactured at Factory Z111, which is based in the northern Thanh Hoa province and owned by the Ministry of Defence, suggesting the production of the rifles is a collaboration between IWI and the VPA.


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## Viet

Voice of Russia revealed why Vietnam has chosen israeli rifes: the price!
Russia offered AK-100 rifle for a price of $250m, while Israel Galil only costs $170m.

Israel Weapon Industries will soon set up a fabric in Thanh Hóa that will produce 50.000 Galil ACE-31 and 32 a year.






Vietnam verzichtet auf Kalaschnikow-Maschinenpistolen - Nachrichten - Wirtschaft - Stimme Russlands
Kalaschnikow vor dem Aus in Vietnam: Israelische Sturmgewehre gewinnen Wettbewerb | Sicherheit und Militär | RIA Novosti

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## waikici

Have the JEWS paid their copyrights for the russian ak that they have copied?


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## Viet

waikici said:


> Have the JEWS paid their copyrights for the russian ak that they have copied?


wrong place...open a JEWS thread in dedicated section


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## waikici

Actually it must be cheaper because Israel produces it in Vietnam contrary to Russia


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## Viet

waikici said:


> Actually it must be cheaper because Israel produces it in Vietnam contrary to Russia


banned, too bad for you.

actually the news says the bid for the rifles demands production in a Vietnamese fabric, using technology from Israel or Russia. Israel won the bid because of lower price. I think Vietnam made the right choice. here you can compare the differences. the Israeli one looks mightier.

Ak-101






Galil ACE 32

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## NiceGuy

Russian bro should co-operate with VN to produce weapons with cheaper price


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## 500

Viet said:


> Israel won the bid because of lower price.


Not only price, ACE is more ergonomic and adaptable:

- left side charging handle
- ambidextrous controls
- integral Picatinny rails
- adjustable telescoping buttstocks
- comfortable pistol grips

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## Soryu

I still think VPA will chose AK-103 or better AK version at last, even CZ-805 was rejected ....


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## NiceGuy

Soryu said:


> I still think VPA will chose AK-103 or better AK version at last, even CZ-805 was rejected ....


why we have to pay a higher price when AK is not better than Galil ??


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## Soryu

NiceGuy said:


> why we have to pay a higher price when AK is not better than Galil ??


Why did you think AK-103 is not better than Galil !?


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## NiceGuy

Soryu said:


> Why did you think AK-103 is not better than Galil !?


I see nothing special from AK-103. Same function with Galil when the price is much higher.


> The *AK-103*assault rifle is a derivative of the AK-74M chambered for the7.62×39mm M43 round, similar to the older AKM. The AK-103 can be fitted with a variety of sights, including night vision and telescopic sights, plus a knife-bayonet or a grenade launcher. It uses plastic components whenever possible instead of wood or metal.AK-103 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Fukuoka

I wonder what is the curious interest of Israel to give you cheap rifle and give you jobs



500 said:


> Not only price, ACE is more ergonomic and adaptable:
> 
> - left side charging handle
> - ambidextrous controls
> - integral Picatinny rails
> - adjustable telescoping buttstocks
> - comfortable pistol grips


Aks don't have this? Is this more or less reliable than aks?


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## Viet

Fukuoka said:


> I wonder what is the curious interest of Israel to give you *cheap *rifle and give you jobs


cheap? $170m is only the cost for the license. The new weapons fabric is owned by the Vietnamese army. Israel delivers the technology.


Fukuoka said:


> Aks don't have this? Is this more or less reliable than aks?


well, I think Vietnam had carefully tested both rifle variants from Russia and Israel before opting for Galil. here is a pic showing a fire training with Galil sniper rifle and Negev machine gun. Israel has a very sophisticated defence industry. Hopefully more to come from them in the future. 

Vietnam is too much dependent on Russia.


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## Nike

Fukuoka said:


> I wonder what is the curious interest of Israel to give you cheap rifle and give you jobs
> 
> 
> *Aks don't have this? Is this more or less reliable than aks?*



@500

Must be compared with technical specs and the results of field tests between both of the rifles, can't just say mine is more ergonomic than yours and so on.


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## Viet

500 said:


> Not only price, ACE is more ergonomic and adaptable:
> 
> - left side charging handle
> - ambidextrous controls
> - integral Picatinny rails
> - adjustable telescoping buttstocks
> - comfortable pistol grips


yes, and it looks more modern than the AK.


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## NiceGuy

Fukuoka said:


> I wonder what is the curious interest of Israel to give you cheap rifle and give you jobs


I thinks bcz Washington obstruct Israeli high-tech exports to China, so Israel need a new market and VN is the good choice . VN also need high-tech weapons with cheap price, thats the win-win deal 


Fukuoka said:


> Aks don't have this? Is this more or less reliable than aks?


Bcz VN weather is wet with the high humidity level, so VNese still think AKs is the better choice coz Galil only be tested mostly in dry weather.

But Galil's price is good, and we still can buy next-gen Russia riffle if they offer a much better price


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## 500

Fukuoka said:


> I wonder what is the curious interest of Israel to give you cheap rifle and give you jobs


One of the reasons is about different production technology: AK uses metal stamping and Galil - milling. Milling is cheaper with modern programmed tools.



> Aks don't have this?


- left side charging handle
- ambidextrous controls
- adjustable telescoping buttstocks

These three AK does not have. Rest in some versions.



> Is this more or less reliable than aks?


Galil ACE uses AK mechanism, so reliability is exactly the same.



NiceGuy said:


> Bcz VN weather is wet with the high humidity level, so VNese still think AKs is the better choice coz Galil only be tested mostly in dry weather.


Israel has very high humidity level. 80% is typical here.



madokafc said:


> @500
> 
> Must be compared with technical specs and the results of field tests between both of the rifles, can't just say mine is more ergonomic than yours and so on.


I am not just "saying", I am bringing facts, like left side charging handle. If you dont understand what does that mean, its your problem.

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## Fukuoka

NiceGuy said:


> I thinks bcz Washington obstruct Israeli high-tech exports to China, so Israel need a new market and VN is the good choice . VN also need high-tech weapons with cheap price, thats the win-win deal
> 
> Bcz VN weather is wet with the high humidity level, so VNese still think AKs is the better choice coz Galil only be tested mostly in dry weather.
> 
> But Galil's price is good, and we still can buy next-gen Russia riffle if they offer a much better price


Great deal indeed, i hope the israelis will sell you also heavier weapons like missiles as the russians do

Great choice also the 7.62 caliber for a such light rifle, i wonder why China still use 5.56 caliber

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## Nike

don't know, Galil ACE is not that great when compared and pitted against other modern assault rifles, such as HK 416 and G-36. They've lost against HK 416 in our competition to supply the most reliable modern assault rifles to our Kopassus SF and Rider battalions.


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## 500

madokafc said:


> don't know, Galil ACE is not that great when compared and pitted against other modern assault rifles, such as HK 416 and G-36. They've lost against HK 416 in our competition to supply the most reliable modern assault rifles to our Kopassus SF and Rider battalions.


1) ACE is not a new rifle, its modified AK.
2) In terms of reliability ACE is better than HK 416 and G-36, simply because nothing can beat AK here.
3) In terms of ergonomics and modularity ACE is worse than new guns like HK416 and G-36 but much better than standard AK and better than AK-103.

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## Fukuoka

madokafc said:


> don't know, Galil ACE is not that great when compared and pitted against other modern assault rifles, such as HK 416 and G-36. They've lost against HK 416 in our competition to supply the most reliable modern assault rifles to our Kopassus SF and Rider battalions.


Actually i think Ace is a great gun in term of price and reliability
But i think it's more expensive than the price they have given for Vietnam

It's for political reasons that they have sold it so cheap

And it fires higher caliber than hk416, but the HK416 is also reliable and is more efficient and probably more accurate


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> don't know, Galil ACE is not that great when compared and pitted against other modern assault rifles, such as *HK 416* and G-36. They've lost against HK 416 in our competition to supply the most reliable modern assault rifles to our Kopassus SF and Rider battalions.


what is standard rifle of Indonesian army? and can you produce them domestically?



Fukuoka said:


> Great deal indeed, i hope the israelis will sell you also heavier weapons like missiles as the russians do


Vietnam has about 1,000 tanks, most of them are old, many of types T-54/55. Since more 1 year or so Israel is doing some upgrades on T-55 tanks. it would be nice, if Isreal does more in other fields, especially for the navy.

Vietnamese armed forces modernize its fleet of main battle tanks T-55 to standard T 54/55M3 2503124Â -Â Army Recognition


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## Fukuoka

I like the modular armor, i wonder why Russia use ERA that looks not very efficient


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## Nike

Viet said:


> what is standard rifle of Indonesian army? and can you produce them domestically?



SS-1 and SS-2 assault rifles

For SS-1 based on FN-FNC has been produced by PT PINDAD and adopted by Indonesian Armed Forces since 1986





For SS-2, developed indigenously by PT PINDAD and has been chosen as a replacement for SS-1 since 2006, right now almost all regular infantry and combat unit using SS-2 and her derivatives variants






Bulp-up variant of SS-2






Para variant of SS-2






SS-2 V5

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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> I thinks bcz *Washington obstruct Israeli high-tech exports to China*, so Israel need a new market and VN is the good choice . VN also need high-tech weapons with cheap price, thats the win-win deal
> 
> Bcz VN weather is wet with the high humidity level, so VNese still think AKs is the better choice coz Galil only be tested mostly in dry weather.
> 
> But Galil's price is good, and we still can buy next-gen Russia riffle if they offer a much better price


I think we need from Russia more modern submarines and frigates, not rifles.

your assumption about America obstructs Israel hitec export to China seems correct. here is a report of voice of Russia confirming it.

America demands Israel to stop delivering of modern weapons and military cooperation with China. So Israel has to look elsewhere to sell, and found the new customer Vietnam. Interesting, the US still holds arms embargo on Vietnam, but allows Israel to help modernizing the Vietnamese army.

The article says Israel not only helps to modernize the tanks (Russian-made T-55 and Chinese variant T-59), but also since year 2000 delivers Vietnam a number of weapon technologies, including missiles, artillery munitions and digital bombs. the deal of Gaglil assault rifles can be the breakthrough for Israel in Vietnam.

Nach US-Tabu für Chinas Waffenmarkt: Israel versucht sein Glück in Vietnam - Nachrichten - Politik - Stimme Russlands

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## EastSea

Option accessories for Galil ACE.

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## NiceGuy

madokafc said:


> SS-1 and SS-2 assault rifles
> 
> For SS-1 based on FN-FNC has been produced by PT PINDAD and adopted by Indonesian Armed Forces since 1986
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For SS-2, developed indigenously by PT PINDAD and has been chosen as a replacement for SS-1 since 2006, right now almost all regular infantry and combat unit using SS-2 and her derivatives variants
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bulp-up variant of SS-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Para variant of SS-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SS-2 V5


Ur riffle use 5.56x45 mm NATO ?? I think u should change all to 7.62 caliber coz 5.56 is ineffective. VN war prove that. AK with 7.62 caliber is superior in jungle warfare coz it can kill enemy even behind the big tree when 5.56 can not

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## Nike

NiceGuy said:


> Ur riffle use 5.56x45 mm NATO ?? I think u should change all to 7.62 caliber coz 5.56 is ineffective. VN war prove that. AK with 7.62 caliber is superior in jungle warfare coz it can kill enemy even behind the big tree when 5.56 can not



not really, SS-1 with their 5,56 caliber is quite battle proven here and our terrain is not all predominated by jungle alone. In Indonesia accuracy and stopping power is all matters

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## Fukuoka

Viet said:


> The article says Israel not only helps to modernize the tanks (Russian-made T-55 and Chinese variant T-59), but also since year 2000 delivers Vietnam a number of weapon technologies, including missiles, artillery munitions and digital bombs. the deal of Gaglil assault rifles can be the breakthrough for Israel in Vietnam.


Interesting, is it guided artillery shells?

It may come from the stocks that the USA provide for Israel. They give their ally so many that they can even sell it.

(Google) -U.S. Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis (2006 war against Hezbollah)
-Israel Asks U.S. to Ship Rockets With Wide Blast 
-US to renew Israel munitions stock to make up for Gaza war

*BTW, i've never heard of digital bombs*

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## Viet

Fukuoka said:


> Interesting, is it guided artillery shells?
> 
> It may come from the stocks that the USA provide for Israel. They give their ally so many that they can even sell it.
> 
> (Google) -U.S. Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis (2006 war against Hezbollah)
> -Israel Asks U.S. to Ship Rockets With Wide Blast
> -US to renew Israel munitions stock to make up for Gaza war
> 
> *BTW, i've never heard of digital bombs*


I just translated from the article which is in German. Digital bombs could mean laser guided bombs.


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## Viet

Air Platforms
*Singapore Airshow: Vietnam in talks over Camcopter S-100 purchase*
*James Hardy, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
10 February 2014







_Vietnam is in talks to buy the Camcopter S-100, seen here undertaking maritime trials off France's Ile du Levant in 2010. Source: Schiebel_

Schiebel is in talks with the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) to supply its Camcopter S-100 rotary-wing unmanned aerial vehicle, company officials confirmed at the Singapore Airshow.

Andrew Byrne, regional sales director for Asia-Pacific at the Austrian firm, told _IHS Jane's_ that the company had briefed Vietnam about the S-100 and was planning to hold a multinational demonstration of the system's capabilities in the region later in 2014.

"Every southeast Asian country is informed" of the S-100, Byrne said, adding that as well as Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam had shown interest in the platform. Australia and New Zealand were also examining the system, with the latter's navy taking part in a demonstration for New Zealand power company Transpower in September 2013.

If purchased by Vietnam, the S-100 would be deployed from the VPN's two new Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (DSNS)* Sigma-class (Type 9814) corvettes*, Byrne said. DSNS said in August 2013 that it had agreed to sell the ships to Vietnam: the second sale of the ship to the region following a previous contract with Indonesia. 

Byrne added that Schiebel was in discussions with the Dutch shipbuilder about integration of the Camcopter's systems aboard the two corvettes during the manufacturing process.

The S-100 on display at Singapore was fitted with the L-3 Wescam MX-10 EO sensor, an unidentified SIGINT sensor and the Selex ES PicoSAR AESA surveillance radar. Byrne described the S-100 as having a 200 km operational radius, within which the sensor range was 40 km at an altitude of 2,000 m. It is also fitted with a C-band datalink.

An S-200, which Byrne described as being about "three times the size of the S-100", has been designed but a demonstrator has yet to be built, he said.

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## Viet

Fukuoka said:


> Actually i think Ace is a great gun in term of price and reliability
> But i think it's more expensive than the price they have given for Vietnam
> 
> *It's for political reasons that they have sold it so cheap.*
> 
> And it fires higher caliber than hk416, but the HK416 is also reliable and is more efficient and probably more accurate


your assumption is correct. Israel wants to increase the foot print in Asia, especially in Vietnam. Selling the rifles at cheap price, and hoping to sell more expensive things in the future. an usual marketing strategy.

Singapore Airshow 2014: Israel seeks more Asian defence industry collaboration - IHS Jane's 360


> "Our first objective is to integrate Israel's military technologies into our national security plan, meaning that we use these technologies to *create partnerships with countries* that we think we need to be affiliated with or partnered with," said the official.


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## Fukuoka

Actually i don't think money is the first motivation, as they have all the weapons they need from USA and they have the unconditionnal support too, wich means a lot of things, starting with billions of help each year.


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## Soryu

JMSDF's P-3C visit Tân Sơn Nhất Airbase this morning:

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## NiceGuy

Fukuoka said:


> Actually i don't think money is the first motivation, as they have all the weapons they need from USA and they have the unconditionnal support too, wich means a lot of things, starting with billions of help each year.


I think US politicians wanna support VN weapons to counter China, but they can not bcz base on their laws, they r not allowed to sell lethal weapons to 'unfriendly' country like VN, so US indirectly sell to VN throught Israel

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## Viet

Soryu said:


> JMSDF's P-3C visit Tân Sơn Nhất Airbase this morning:


cool...where did you get this info?


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## Viet

marking 20 years of normalisation betwen US and Vietnam in Washington


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> cool...where did you get this info?


facebook page "Comrade Commissar"


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## Viet

Kilo sub HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh on the way to Vietnam
tug boats and an icebreaker break the ice. The submarine began leaving St Petersburg to Kaliningrad on January 17 on harsh weather conditions.

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## Viet

Senior Lieutenant General Ty, chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army, at defence meeting summit with Indonesian Military Commander General Moeldoko, Hanoi, February 12-15.

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## ViXuyen



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## ViXuyen

Military songs that I like....

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## ViXuyen



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## ViXuyen

Why are we buying so many more radars but not missiles?


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## Soryu

So you know we just buy radars but not missiles !?


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## Soryu

another new building DN-2000 for Coast Guard:

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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Why are we buying so many more radars but not missiles?


what is that? any idea what is used for?


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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> what is that? any idea what is used for?


ST-68UM Tin Shield radar, for air defence

Search and Acquisition Radars (S-Band, X-band)



Soryu said:


> another new building DN-2000 for Coast Guard:


Awesome, in the prior page the photo that I posted is the 2nd, this is the 3rd and the 4th is also being built at Song Thu shipyard.

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## Viet

a new toy for the army: short range UAV, made by Viettel, named *VT Patrol*

_26 kilograms
3.3-meter wingspan
speed of up to 150 kilometers
short distances up to 50 km
infrared camera can transmit high quality images and identify targets from up to 600 meters away_

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## Viet

more UAVs are coming soon

The biggest, AV.UAV.S4, can fly 100 kilometers and to an altitude of 3,000 meters at 180 kilometers per hour. It is 4.2 meters long and weighs 170 kg.

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## ViXuyen

Maybe MALE UAV in 3 years?

I'm waiting to see the first pic of EL/M-2228ER radar currently in service in Viet Nam.


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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Maybe MALE UAV in 3 years?
> 
> I'm waiting to see the first pic of EL/M-2228ER radar currently in service in Viet Nam.


yes, what we need is armed drones such as this toy: predator from the US army


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## Viet

1st army recruitment of 2014

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## eazzy

Even if Vietnam is poor, it is a much more advanced country than other poor countries like Philippines or India.

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## ViXuyen

Song Thu shipyard

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## visom

eazzy said:


> Even if Vietnam is poor, it is a much more advanced country than other poor countries like Philippines or India.


I don't know how to feel about that comment.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Viet said:


> more UAVs are coming soon
> 
> The biggest, AV.UAV.S4, can fly 100 kilometers and to an altitude of 3,000 meters at 180 kilometers per hour. It is 4.2 meters long and weighs 170 kg.



These are target drones...



>



RC toys fitted with camera... also available commercially..


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## Soryu

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These are target drones...
> 
> 
> 
> RC toys fitted with camera... also available commercially..


yup, but still can count like UAV


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## Genesis

eazzy said:


> Even if Vietnam is poor, it is a much more advanced country than other poor countries like Philippines or India.


come on man, I'm no fan of Vietnam, but to compare Vietnam that has a military to one that use fishing boats as navy and trainer air crafts as air force is a joke.


@Viet 

dude I saw those pictures, you guys got to get into the 21st century, those uniforms are soviet. Vietnam is trying to become a manufacturing powerhouse anyways, why not switch uniforms to a more modern one. 

The fact Vietnamese more or less looks East Asian means you represent all of us, if you look bad, we all look bad.


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## ViXuyen

U mean like this?

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## Nike

ViXuyen said:


> U mean like this?



Sorry, but still look like an old style for me





at least get the new camo and vest armor, like this

Indonesian Paratroopers Division

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Sorry, but still look like an old style for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least get the new camo and vest armor, like this
> 
> Indonesian Paratroopers Division


nice dress and military devices



Genesis said:


> come on man,* I'm no fan of Vietnam*, but to compare Vietnam that has a military to one that use fishing boats as navy and trainer air crafts as air force is a joke.
> 
> 
> @Viet
> 
> dude I saw those pictures, you guys got to get into the 21st century, those uniforms are soviet. Vietnam is trying to become a manufacturing powerhouse anyways, why not switch uniforms to a more modern one.
> 
> The fact Vietnamese more or less looks East Asian means you represent all of us, if you look bad, we all look bad.


ha ha ha...I know you are not a fan of Vietnam. Your dream is to conquer Vietnam and the entire SE Asia.
I don´t get it why China looks bad if Vietnam looks bad?

You should feel happy that our army is ill-equipped.


----------



## Viet

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These are target drones...
> 
> RC toys fitted with camera... also available commercially..


all correct. the point is Vietnam can now produce UAVs of different kinds.


----------



## Genesis

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...I know you are not a fan of Vietnam. Your dream is to conquer Vietnam and the entire SE Asia.
> I don´t get it why China looks bad if Vietnam looks bad?
> 
> You should feel happy that our army is ill-equipped.



How well Vietnam is equipped is not relevant, just like the US VS UK, the difference is there, regardless of how hard the UK tries. Same deal here, except more so.

Plus I don't want to conquer any nation, seems pointless, but I do want to kick the US out, head a few organizations made up of Asian nations, that's all. China has no plan of incorporating nations into China, that's a fools errand and everybody knows. 

I know communist, these are crazy fanatics that wouldn't give up under any circumstance, are you forgetting I'm Chinese? You can't fool me like you could the Americans. Yea, come to Vietnam it'll be a short and fun war, yea right, if we stay we'll be bogged down forever, until we leave. 

Vietnamese looks like east asian, the difference is not huge, if even one of us looks bad, we all get a bad image. One bad photo and it's bad press for all.


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## Viet

Genesis said:


> How well Vietnam is equipped is not relevant, just like the US VS UK, the difference is there, regardless of how hard the UK tries. Same deal here, except more so.
> 
> Plus I don't want to conquer any nation, seems pointless, but I do want to kick the US out, head a few organizations made up of Asian nations, that's all. China has no plan of incorporating nations into China, that's a fools errand and everybody knows.
> 
> I know communist, these are crazy fanatics that wouldn't give up under any circumstance, are you forgetting *I'm Chinese*? You can't fool me like you could the Americans. Yea, come to Vietnam it'll be a short and fun war, yea right, if we stay we'll be bogged down forever, until we leave.
> 
> *Vietnamese looks like east asian, the difference is not huge, if even one of us looks bad, we all get a bad image. One bad photo and it's bad press for all*.


he he he...you are Chinese, then you should know the old saying: a good man does not become a soldier.

Vietnam embraces this culture. Generally the Viets dislike militarism. You rarely see military parade on the street in Vietnam, despite we have many reasons for celebrations as the numerous victories over our enemies show. Apart of times of wars, the army plays only a minor role in public life. It is a mentality.

As for bad image, the world knows Vietnam has one of the best armies in the world. Rest assured, in times of wars, we know how to quickly get modern weapons. For instance, during the America-Vietnam war in the 1960s, the MIG pilots of North Vietnam scored more air victories than the US pilots in dog fights.

Sure, you are right. Vietnamese army looks poor equipped and needs to step up urgently the modernization. The region is very unstable today, with disputes perhaps going out of control soon.

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## Soryu

madokafc said:


> Sorry, but still look like an old style for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at least get the new camo and vest armor, like this
> 
> Indonesian Paratroopers Division


Nice gears, bro.
But "at least ..." LOL. What do you mean with that !?
We're still choosing our new standard assault rifle, test our new digital camo ... 
Our top priority is modernization Air force, anti-air and Navy.

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## Genesis

Viet said:


> he he he...you are Chinese, then you should know the old saying: a good man does not become a soldier.
> 
> Vietnam embraces this culture. Generally the Viets dislike militarism. You rarely see military parade on the street in Vietnam, despite we have many reasons for celebrations as the numerous victories over our enemies show. Apart of times of wars, the army plays only a minor role in public life. It is a mentality.
> 
> As for bad image, the world knows Vietnam has one of the best armies in the world. Rest assured, in times of wars, we know how to quickly get modern weapons. For instance, during the America-Vietnam war in the 1960s, the MIG pilots of North Vietnam scored more air victories than the US pilots in dog fights.
> 
> Sure, you are right. Vietnamese army looks poor equipped and needs to step up urgently the modernization. The region is very unstable today, with disputes perhaps going out of control soon.



Times have changed, a soldier is a career. A good one too. The saying back then is because of constant wars and going into the army pretty much death.

As to militarism, Chinese parade only happens on major events, which is once a couple years, and the big one is about once a decade. 

The army plays no role in Chinese government, it can no more topple the government than doctors. Especially today when all the officers and about a little less than half of soldiers are university graduates. 

As to pass glories, China can boost those too, in Korean war, we used a old WW1 plane that somehow shot down a jet. But that's just that past glory. Ethiopia defeated Italy in WW1, in WW2, Italy brushed them aside like bread crumbs. Don't confuse past glory with present situation, for as many heroes you have we have, we are both communist, Ho Chi Minh was once part of Chinese communist party, before he returned to Vietnam. 

As for unstable region, you army won't help what will help is diplomacy, but as I said I would rather invade Japan and America than Vietnam, invading a communist country is a bad idea. it'll never work. I believe we can easily brush your army aside, but the real war starts after the battles.


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## Soryu

US's carrot:

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## EastSea

Soryu said:


> US's carrot:



but they are our counterpart to keep peace of region.


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## ViXuyen

F-15 is way too expensive and the cost does not justify it. The Korean bought 60 of those at $120 million/piece is outright robbery. Viet Nam is better off with one battalion of S-300 with 6 launchers for $120 million or 1 su-35 and 1 su-30 for $120 million than 1 F-15 for $120 million


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## ViXuyen



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## Genesis

ViXuyen said:


> F-15 is way too expensive and the cost does not justify it. The Korean bought 60 of those at $120 million/piece is outright robbery. Viet Nam is better off with one battalion of S-300 with 6 launchers for $120 million or 1 su-35 and 1 su-30 for $120 million than 1 F-15 for $120 million



Dude F-35 is 120 million, without weapon systems. There's no way F-15 is that much, the Silent eagle maybe. 

Besides, S-300 is getting phased out, with the new stealth fighters, the strategy is to destroy all anti air batteries and then comes the 4th gen fighters and bombers. 

So anti air may not be the investment you think it is.


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## ViXuyen

Genesis said:


> Dude F-35 is 120 million, without weapon systems. There's no way F-15 is that much, the Silent eagle maybe.
> 
> Besides, S-300 is getting phased out, with the new stealth fighters, the strategy is to destroy all anti air batteries and then comes the 4th gen fighters and bombers.
> 
> So anti air may not be the investment you think it is.


 Not $120 but still $100 million a piece about 9 years ago
F-15K Slam Eagle

Anti-air missile is there to stay, they are more economical and effective than fighters. A huge network of highly mobile SAM sites, inflatable decoys, and electronic equipment that send out decoy signals is a deadly theatre for any airforce to try to penetrate. Of course, having some more fighters to go along with a network of air defence is a plus

F-35 is $275 million a piece; that's what israel paid

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## Viet

news of today: two additional Gepard frigates on order, to be delivered in 2017, bringing the total number of Gepards to 6.

Standard Armament:

8 × SS-N-25 Switchblade Anti-Ship missiles
1 × 76.2 mm 59-caliber AK–176 automatic dual-purpose gun (500-round magazine)
2 × 6-barreled 30 mm AK-630 point-defense guns (2,000-round magazine for each)
4 × 533 mm torpedo tubes (two twin launchers)
1 × RBU-6000 12-barreled Anti-Submarine rocket launcher
12–20 mines












Vietnam purchases two more Russian frigates | VOV Online Newspaper

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## Viet

Genesis said:


> Dude* F-35* is 120 million, without weapon systems. There's no way F-15 is that much, the Silent eagle maybe.
> 
> Besides, S-300 is getting phased out, with the new stealth fighters, the strategy is to destroy all anti air batteries and then comes the 4th gen fighters and bombers.
> 
> So anti air may not be the investment you think it is.


ViXueng says SU-35, not F-35. As long as America still holds embargo on Vietnam, it is useless to talk on buying of US weapons.

No, modern anti aircraft systems can track all targets, including stealth fighters. Have you ever heard of passive radar system?

A conventional radar station sends out a powerful search beam, which is reflected by ships or aircrafts. From the echo, the computer can calculate the position, course and speed of the target.

A passive radar does not require an own search beam. It analyses the wave salad coming from the atmosphere. Any object such as aircraft or ship moves through the wave soup like a fish through the water - and raises inevitable return of measurable echoes. A stealth jet cannot hide because it is hit by radio waves at all sides. High performance computers with complex math algorithmen analyse the wave soup and identify the objetcs.

Plus a passive radar works faster. Unlike a classical radar whose search beam takes about four seconds for a full 360-degree turn, the passive radar image is updated twice per second.

Here is a passive radar system from the company EADS Cassidian: It fits into a conventional small truck. It uses three frequency bands: analogue UKW, digital radio DAB and digital telvision DVB-T. The company promises the radar can locate small flying objects, stealth fighter aircrafts, up to 500 targets up to a distance of 200 km, with an accuracy of 10m.

Vietnam needs such a toy combined with a high performance anti aircraft system. Stealth jets do not mean invisible.











Passivradar: Das Ende der Unsichtbarkeit - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Wissenschaft

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## Viet

visom said:


> I don't know how to feel about that comment.


bro, you should pick country flags.


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## ViXuyen

Here is the model of the KN-series ship. They are underconstruction in Hai Phong

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## Viet

nice! a direct telephone hotline between Chinese and Vietnamese army will be established later this year.

Direct phone line for China, Vietnam defense ministries - CHINA - WORLD - Globaltimes.cn
Vietnam-China army hotline to be available this year | Tuổi Trẻ news


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## ViXuyen




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## CN.Black

Who can tell me why all the Vietnam-made weapons look like DIY toys made by middle school students??????


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## EastSea

CN.Black said:


> Who can tell me why all the Vietnam-made weapons look like DIY toys made by middle school students??????



Like this ?


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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


>


no pic description. is it a model for the dutch Sigmar corvette?


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## EastSea

he don't know what is this.


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## Viet

EastSea said:


> he don't know what is this.


I followed the link and found the info:








_Damen shipyard introduces 2 types of SIGMA 9814 frigate in Vietship 2014. These models match some of our speculations about this class, including:

- A modified version of basic 9813 class
- Armed with 8 #Exocet MM40 Block 3 anti-ship missiles
- Replacing the Denel Vektor G12 guns (manually controlled) with another automatic system, unfortunately it's not the Goalkeeper as we expected

Also, the radar cross section is greatly reduced with a new superstructure and upper deck._

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## Viet

CN.Black said:


> Who can tell me why all the *Vietnam-made weapons* look like DIY toys made by middle school students??????


VN capitility of building modern warships is limited, still. Most modern stuffs come from Russia to date.

Ka-28 ASW helicopter





Kilo diesel sub





Gepard frigate


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## Nike

since Vietnam has decided to using SIGMA class with Tacticos CMS, i think Indonesia and Vietnam can doing more naval drill exercise togheter......................

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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> no pic description. is it a model for the dutch Sigmar corvette?


 That's the version for Viet Nam. Here is the video about the Oto Melara gun on the Sigma; it is an awesome gun

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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> That's the version for Viet Nam. Here is the video about the Oto Melara gun on the Sigma; it is an awesome gun


nice!
but I am still missing info details where and when the vessels will be built and what costs. any idea?



CN.Black said:


> Who can tell me why all the Vietnam-made weapons look like DIY toys made by middle school students??????


here is another toy: a model of a stealth sub, made by a private company in Vietnam: 3.2 metres long and weighing a tonne, can operate at up to 70 metres depth, run on batteries, speed 15mph. stealth as it is made by composites, coated with a special type of paint.

The boss of the company is confident, they can build diesel subs as big as the Kilos.

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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> nice!
> but I am still missing info details where and when the vessels will be built and what costs. any idea?


The only official info that we have so far is the contract for $668 million dollars for 2 ships. Other than that, we don't have any official info when the ships will be built. The first one or two will be built in Netherlands with the possibility that any more Sigma ship will be built in Viet Nam.

By looking at the cooperation between Damen and Viet Nam with the DN-2000 and KN-series offshore patrol boats, I'm confident that Damen will transfer tech for Viet Nam to build the Sigma in Viet Nam. Remember that not a single DN-2000 and KN-series ships were built in the Netherlands, all have been built in Viet Nam

The Dutch is more fair and square of a business partner to do business with than the russian. The Russian never had any intention to transfer tech for Viet Nam to build the Gepard. They keep fooling us around and now even up to the 4th Gepard is not even get built in Viet Nam and delivery for the 4th Gepard won't be done until 2017 (what a joke). It's obvious that Viet Nam has had enough with the Russian that's why we look at the Dutch for our surface combatants. 

I'm really looking forward in the future for more military industrial tech transfer projects from countries like Israel or the European, No hope for doing business with the Russian, they just want us to buy off the shelves; they even charge us $80 million dollars more than Israel for the assault rifle production line, LOL

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## Viet

ViXueng, agreed. Besides, I think Vietnam needs a new class of warships...heavy vessels with 5,000t and above, e.i. heli carriers and destroyers, but the Damen shipyard has nothing to offer in this category.

I place my hope on Japan. Vietnam navy is still dangerously weak.


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## Viet

never ending story...


Design of future Damen SIGMA 9814 Corvettes for Vietnamese Navy revealed

During Vietship 2014 Nava Exhibition in Vietnam, Dutch shipyard Damen unveiled for the first time the design of the Sigma 9814 Corvette ordered by Vietnam. It was announced in October 2011 that Damen shipyard in Vlissingen, Netherlands will build four Sigma corvettes for the Vietnamese Navy.

The first two ships will be built in Vlissingen (Netherlands), and the last two (options) will be built in Vietnam, under Dutch supervision.





*The new Sigma 9814, future corvette design of the Vietnamese Navy
Picture source: *Quôc Phòng Viêt Nam

Based on previously published information and from what can be seen on the model shown at Vietship 2014 the new SIGMA 9814 class will be fitted with:


8x MBDA Exocet MM40 Block 3
12x MBDA MICA VL surface-to-air missiles (in VLS)
1x Oto Melara 76mm main gun
2x Oto Melara MARLIN-WS 30mm gun mounts
 
The corvette will acomodate one anti-submarine helicopters Ka-28. The corvettes are set to receive the latest generation of electronics and sensors from Thales including TACTICOS combat management system, SMART-S Mk 2 radar and STING EO Mk 2 electro-optical fire control system.

Design wise, the new Sigma 9814 differs quite a lot compared to existing Sigma designs (9813, 10513 or 10514) especially around the bridge area. Likewise, the bow appears to be more angled to possibly provide more stealth.

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## Viet

Quốc Phòng Việt Nam (Vietnam defence) reports Vietnam army inducting new long range radar for air defence P-18, replacing P-12

*specifications:*


developed by SKB Design Bureau NNIIRT Nizhniy Novgorod (Russia), produced in Vietnam 
operating in the VHF band, 150-170MHz frequency
range of up to 250km reconnaissance, maximum altitude of 35km, azimuth 360 degrees
equipped with digital processor capable of distinguishing targets in cluttered environments
better resistance to interference
built-in self-test able to detect abnormal error of the system
control room is equipped with multi-screen display function provides the ability to better target
capable to detect *stealth aircrafts*
 

Việt Nam nâng cấp radar cảnh giới P-18 | Quốc Phòng Việt Nam


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> never ending story...
> 
> 
> Design of future Damen SIGMA 9814 Corvettes for Vietnamese Navy revealed
> 
> During Vietship 2014 Nava Exhibition in Vietnam, Dutch shipyard Damen unveiled for the first time the design of the Sigma 9814 Corvette ordered by Vietnam. It was announced in October 2011 that Damen shipyard in Vlissingen, Netherlands will build four Sigma corvettes for the Vietnamese Navy.
> 
> The first two ships will be built in Vlissingen (Netherlands), and the last two (options) will be built in Vietnam, under Dutch supervision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The new Sigma 9814, future corvette design of the Vietnamese Navy
> Picture source: *Quôc Phòng Viêt Nam
> 
> Based on previously published information and from what can be seen on the model shown at Vietship 2014 the new SIGMA 9814 class will be fitted with:
> 
> 8x MBDA Exocet MM40 Block 3
> 12x MBDA MICA VL surface-to-air missiles (in VLS)
> 1x Oto Melara 76mm main gun
> 2x Oto Melara MARLIN-WS 30mm gun mounts
> 
> The corvette will acomodate one anti-submarine helicopters Ka-28. The corvettes are set to receive the latest generation of electronics and sensors from Thales including TACTICOS combat management system, SMART-S Mk 2 radar and STING EO Mk 2 electro-optical fire control system.
> 
> Design wise, the new Sigma 9814 differs quite a lot compared to existing Sigma designs (9813, 10513 or 10514) especially around the bridge area. Likewise, the bow appears to be more angled to possibly provide more stealth.



Same to Indonesia, the next 2 SIGMA would be 105x14 which has maximum replacement nearly 2,400 tons.
Once knowing well about this, bigger size ( 3000+, 4000+) would be not too hard for Vietnam to build

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## Viet

it looks as if the two new built *Molniya *corvettes HQ-377 and HQ-378 equipped with Kh-35 Uran antiship missiles are ready to enter service.

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## Viet

Vietnam defence reports we can now self manufacture PK-10. It is a shipborne decoy dispensing system. PK-10 are equipped on gunboats TT-400 and Molniya corvettes. Each tube has a diameter of 120mm, 1.220mm long, weighing 25kg.


*PK-10 SHIPBORNE DECOY DISPENSING SYSTEM
Việt Nam chế tạo hệ thống phòng thủ cho tàu chiến | Quốc Phòng Việt Nam*

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## Viet

air defence

new mobile three coordinate radar system enters service: 36D6M for detecting low-flying aerial targets, instrumental complex range up to 360 km, produced by Zaporozhye (Ukraine). The radar is a part of S-300 air missile defence.

Việt Nam bắt đầu hoạt động radar tối tân của Ukraina | Quốc Phòng Việt Nam


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## Viet

first of 6 Twin Otter patrol aircraft has arrived. 5 more expected this year.

*Specifications:*

19-passenger STOL (Short Takeoff and Landing)

produced by Viking Air (Canada)
DHC-6 Twin Otter 400 series
maximum speed of 314 kph
flight range of 1,832 kilometers
powered by two high performance engines
can land on short runways, soft grounds (grassy, soil or sand), as well as on water
 Hải quân Việt Nam chuẩn bị tiếp nhận 5 thủy phi cơ Twin Otter | Quốc Phòng Việt Nam


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## Viet

Vietnam should evaluate the nuclear option. The 10 nuclear power plants will produce enough plutonium for hundreds of nuclear warheads.

We are said to possess 2,000 Scud-B missiles with 96 launchers, range of 300km, speed mach 5. The short range balistic missile can carry a nuclear warhead of 70kt, accuracy of 450 m CEP. Most importantly we can self produce the missiles. If we can raise the range of the rocket to 1,000km, and increase the payload, then we will get medium range nuclear missiles as ultimate deterrence.

North Korea and Iran build long range missiles on the basis of Scud technology.

*R-17 (Scud-B) short range balistic missile*






























Tên lửa Scud đáng gờm của Việt Nam
Vietnam Moves Forward With Local Rocket Fuel Research | malaysiaflyingherald

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## Viet

Wendy Sherman, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs visits Hanoi.

Vietnam allows the US to increase the number of search teams responsible for seeking the remains of its servicemen missing in action (MIA) during the Vietnam War.

Wendy Sherman proposes the two countries’ navies to conduct more exchanges, pilot search and rescue work, and set up a *hotline *to keep abreast of maritime security.










_Deputy Minister of Defence Sen. Lieut. Gen Nguyen Chi Vinh meets Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Wendy Sherman. Hanoi 4 March. Photo: VNA

Vietnam allows US to increase MIA search teams -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)_

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## Nike

Viet said:


> ViXueng, agreed. Besides, I think Vietnam needs a new class of warships...heavy vessels with 5,000t and above, e.i. heli carriers and destroyers, but the Damen shipyard has nothing to offer in this category.
> 
> I place my hope on Japan. Vietnam navy is still dangerously weak.



you are dead wrong my friend


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> you are dead wrong my friend


2,200t frigate, so about the size of the Gepard, if I am right?


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## hurt

Viet said:


> Vietnam should evaluate the nuclear option. The 10 nuclear power plants will produce enough plutonium for hundreds of nuclear warheads.
> 
> We are said to possess 2,000 Scud-B missiles with 96 launchers, range of 300km, speed mach 5. The short range balistic missile can carry a nuclear warhead of 70kt, accuracy of 450 m CEP. Most importantly we can self produce the missiles. If we can raise the range of the rocket to 1,000km, and increase the payload, then we will get medium range nuclear missiles as ultimate deterrence.
> 
> North Korea and Iran build long range missiles on the basis of Scud technology.
> 
> *R-17 (Scud-B) short range balistic missile*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tên lửa Scud đáng gờm của Việt Nam
> Vietnam Moves Forward With Local Rocket Fuel Research | malaysiaflyingherald


In your dream


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## Nike

Viet said:


> 2,200t frigate, so about the size of the Gepard, if I am right?



wrong, that's the picture of De Zeven Provincien Class Frigate, they had offered us those sea beast for our MEF II and so far our higher ups has responded them very enthusiastically, please check in Wiki or Google about De Zeven Provincien Class you will get it....


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> wrong, that's the picture of *De Zeven Provincien Class Frigate,* they had offered us those sea beast for our MEF II and so far our higher ups has responded them very enthusiastically, please check in Wiki or Google about De Zeven Provincien Class you will get it....


you are right...6,000t of steel. Not bad.
are you going to buy the frigates? per wiki, it costs $816m a piece. with weapons most likely over $1bn a piece.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> you are right...6,000t of steel. Not bad.
> are you going to buy the frigates? per wiki, it costs $816m a piece. with weapons most likely over $1bn a piece.



still considering because at least we need three ships real AAW destro/frigate, in other hand we are trying to scouting Talwar Class or Kolkata class from India .....


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> still considering because at least we need three ships real AAW destro/frigate, in other hand we are trying to scouting Talwar Class or Kolkata class from India .....


destroyers from India? I m not sure how affective they are...or you can opt for Aegis, though they cost a bit more


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## Viet

some pics from the front

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## Viet

hurt said:


> In your dream


No, it can be reality in case a hostile country threatens Vietnam with nuclear attack.

Also, this Shaddock missile can carry a nuclear warhead of 350kt, speed of mach 1,4, range of 550km, equipped on Molniya corvette. And the beautiful thing is Vietnam can self produce the missiles.


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## eazzy

How much do these girls cost ? I would like to buy some.


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## visom

hurt said:


> In your dream


Hey look, it's the boat boy again.


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## ViXuyen




----------



## zon95

Su-30MKK2 vs Su-30MK2V ? who would will win ?


----------



## cnleio

vietminh said:


> Su-30MKK2 vs Su-30MK2V ? who would will win ?


More numbers owned, will win.



ViXuyen said:


>



Vietnam Su-22 produce factory or maintain center ?


----------



## Genesis

vietminh said:


> Su-30MKK2 vs Su-30MK2V ? who would will win ?



negligible, only when it's a really big difference can you say who wins. If I can lift 80 pounds, you lift 82 pounds, we go into a ring, who wins? Who knows anything can happen.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Vietnam Su-22 produce factory or maintain center ?


maintenance

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## hurt

vietminh said:


> Su-30MKK2 vs Su-30MK2V ? who would will win ?


Su-30MKK2 = Su-30MK2V
Chinese pilots 200~240 flying hours per year > vietnam pilots ? flying hours per year
EWA. > no EWA
AWACS > no AWACS

Air fight = fighter + pilot + EWA + AWACS
who would will win ?


----------



## Viet

hurt said:


> Su-30MKK2 = Su-30MK2V
> Chinese pilots 200~240 flying hours per year > vietnam pilots ? flying hours per year
> EWA. > no EWA
> AWACS > no AWACS
> 
> Air fight = fighter + pilot + EWA + AWACS
> *who would will win ?*


this toy will win: Russian-made *Pantsir-1* missile-gun air defense system

Russian-made Pantsir-1 missile-gun air defense system could be in service with Vietnamese army 25021Â -Â Army Recognition














[/quote]


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## hurt

Viet said:


> this toy will win: Russian-made *Pantsir-1* missile-gun air defense system
> 
> Russian-made Pantsir-1 missile-gun air defense system could be in service with Vietnamese army 25021Â -Â Army Recognition


[/quote]
57E6Range 12km

LT-2 laser-guided bomb Range > 10 km
FT-2 laser-guided bomb range > 20 km
LS-6 range > 60 km


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> this toy will win: Russian-made *Pantsir-1* missile-gun air defense system
> 
> Russian-made Pantsir-1 missile-gun air defense system could be in service with Vietnamese army 25021Â -Â Army Recognition


This system is point-defense, long range and mid range are S-300 and S-125TM ...


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## Viet

hurt said:


> 57E6Range 12km
> 
> LT-2 laser-guided bomb Range > 10 km
> FT-2 laser-guided bomb range > 20 km
> LS-6 range > 60 km


yeah, you can laugh.* Pantsir-1 *is a new type of short/medium range air defence...all in one truck. very cost effective. 



Soryu said:


> This system is point-defense, long range and mid range are S-300 and S-125TM ...


yes, multi-layer air defence: short/medium/long range with different kinds of systems


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## hurt

Viet said:


> yeah, you can laugh.* Pantsir-1 *is a new type of short/medium range air defence...all in one truck. very cost effective.


I don't think that 14 million/per is cost effective.


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## Viet

hurt said:


> I don't think that *14 million*/per is cost effective.


it is not only the price for a truck, but two x 30mm automatic anti-aircraft guns, twelve x surface-to-air missiles, radar and command center. But who knows perhaps as a friend of Russia, we will get it with a friendly price.


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## hurt

Viet said:


> it is not only the price for a truck, but two x 30mm automatic anti-aircraft guns, twelve x surface-to-air missiles, radar and command center. But who knows perhaps as a friend of Russia, we will get it with a friendly price.


Russia never have friendly price .
Unless you send them *Vịnh Cam Ranh 

Do you think Vietnam is importance than Syria for Russian?*


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## Viet

hurt said:


> Russia never have friendly price .
> Unless you send them *Vịnh Cam Ranh
> 
> Do you think Vietnam is importance than Syria for Russian?*


Yes, Vietnam is far more important than Syria. Every superpower or wannbe know it. Be the Chinese, Mongolians, French, Japanese, Americans or Russians. Do you know why?

Vietnam has what all great powers want: land, people and resources.


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## hurt

Viet said:


> Yes, Vietnam is far more important than Syria. Every superpower or wannbe know it. Be the Chinese, Mongolians, French, Japanese, Americans or Russians. Do you know why?
> 
> Vietnam has what all great powers want: land, people and resources.


Plz ask Chinese, Mongolians, French, Japanese, Americans or Russians first.

As a Chinese I had to tell you Chinese never think Vietnam land, people and resources are valuable.


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## Viet

hurt said:


> Plz ask Chinese, Mongolians, French, Japanese, Americans or Russians first.
> 
> As a Chinese I had to tell you Chinese never think Vietnam land, people and resources are valuable.


not you, but the son of heaven. You are a worthless Chinese troll.


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## southeastasiansea

so


Viet said:


> some pics from the front


 so beautiful...


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## hurt

Viet said:


> not you, but the son of heaven. You are a worthless Chinese troll.


the son of heaven
Vietnam just is a land of barbarians for Chinese the son of heaven.

You can goto the heaven to ask them.

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## Rechoice

only idiot think he is son of heaven.


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## visom

hurt said:


> the son of heaven
> Vietnam just is a land of barbarians for Chinese the son of heaven.
> 
> You can goto the heaven to ask them.


I'm very excited to see any new pictures of boats you have for us!


----------



## Fukuoka

hurt said:


> the son of heaven
> Vietnam just is a land of barbarians for Chinese the son of heaven.
> 
> You can goto the heaven to ask them.


It's true that Vietnam has a good weather and they have food in quantity


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## hurt

visom said:


> I'm very excited to see any new pictures of boats you have for us!


Chinese Navy (PLAN) News & Discussions
plz


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## Viet

China and Vietnam armies and border guards celebrate 2014 friendship border defence exchange programme 
So the PLA is withholding the tanks for a while 






_Deputy Defence Minister Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh receives Lieutenant General Qi Jianguo at Vietnam-China border (Source: VNA)._


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## ViXuyen

The 2nd Kilo-class submarine has arrived at Cam Ranh Bay today

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## Viet

HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh City

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## ViXuyen



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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


>


nice pic with 2 subs: #1 HQ-182 and #2 HQ-183
6 subs in a row will impress more 

sub #3: HQ-184 Hai Phong, expected to be delivered in November











sub #4: HQ-185 Da Nang will be launched at 28 March.

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## Viet

sub #5: HQ-186 Khánh Hòa is currently under construction.

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## Viet

_now confirmed: 4 x 2,500t DN2000 class patrol vessels_








Air Platforms

*Vietnamese Coast Guard to acquire naval helicopters for OPVs*

*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
18 March 2014






_The CSBV intends to equip all four DN 2000 OPVs with helicopters. Source: Damen_

The Vietnamese Coast Guard (Canh Sat Bien Vietnam - CSBV) is looking to acquire new naval helicopters for its DN 2000 (Damen 9014-class) offshore patrol vessels (OPVs). The acquisition plan was revealed by Major Nguyen Khac Vuot, the CSBV's deputy director for the International Relations Division, at the OPV Asia Pacific 2014 conference on 18 March.

"The acquisition of the helicopters will be part of Vietnam's effort to integrate aerial surveillance as a part of the coastguard's patrols," said Maj Nguyen. "This will significantly enhance our maritime operations."

The CSBV currently operates one Damen DN 2000 OPV with pennant number 8001. The 90 m vessel is powered by four Caterpillar C3516C engines and can attain a top speed of 21 kt. It has a range of 5,000 n miles and a flight deck that will support helicopters with an all-up weight of 14 tons.

The 8001 is the first of* four helicopter-capable OPVs* ordered from the state-owned Z189 shipyard built to Netherlands-based Damen Shipyard's design. The rest are currently in various stages of construction and all four vessels will be equipped with helicopters.

_IHS Jane's_ understands that the Vietnam Ministry of National Defence has considered the Kamov Ka-27 and the Eurocopter AS565 Panther as possible contenders, but the CSBV indicated that it is still considering other possibilities as long as the aircraft fulfils the tonnage limits of its OPVs' flight deck.

The CSBV has declined to reveal neither the budget allocated for the acquisition programme nor the number of units that it intends to purchase. *"Expect the acquisition process to start in the next two to three months,"* said Maj Nguyen.

Besides naval helicopters, the CSBV has also laid out plans to acquire an unknown number of CASA C-212 Aviocar aircraft and mobile ground command centres to manage the aircraft in maritime surveillance missions.

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## Janmejay

A Kilo-class submarine Russia built for Vietnam arrived at Cam Ranh Bay in the south central province of Khanh Hoa on Wednesday.
The HQ 183 Ho Chi Minh City, the second of six Kilo-class submarines Vietnam bought from Russia, was carried to the Cam Ranh Port by cargo ship Rolldock Star.
Russian and Vietnamese experts will work to launch the submarine soon.
The HQ 182 Hanoi, the first of the six subs, arrived at the Cam Ranh Bay on December 31 last year.
Russia is scheduled to hand over Vietnam the third vessel, the HQ 184 Hai Phong, in November.
The six diesel-electric submarines, which are considered improvements over the older Kilo-class, were bought under a US$2-billion deal signed during a visit by Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung to Russia in 2009.
Under the contract, Russia will deliver all by 2016, train Vietnamese crews, and supply necessary spare parts.
Vietnam this week will send another sailor crew to Russia for training to prepare for the fifth submarine under the contract.

2nd Russian-built submarine arrives at Vietnam port | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

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## Viet

Industry
*Vietnam and Israel sign defence industrial MoU*

*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
25 March 2014






Vietnam and Israel have signed security-related accords supporting further defence industrial co-operation between the two countries.

Hanoi said in a statement on 25 March that the memoranda of understanding (MoUs) cover collaboration on security technologies and the protection of classified information.

The accords were signed in Israel during Vietnam's vice minister of public security Senior Lieutenant-General Dang Van Hieu's recent visit to the country. The Vietnamese delegation also visited Israeli companies specialising in developing counter-terrorism and homeland security equipment, it said.

*COMMENT*
The MoUs signify the deepening level of trust that is emerging between Vietnam and Israel. The two countries established diplomatic ties in 1993, although relations have flourished over the past five years in line with Vietnam's economic expansion and Hanoi's concerns about regional threats.

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## Viet

*Japan, Vietnam pave way for further defence collaboration*

*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
18 March 2014





_Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang on March 18, 2014._

Japan and Vietnam agreed to enter an "extensive strategic partnership" on 18 March: a move that supports enhanced bilateral defence collaboration and is intended as a counterbalance to China's growing regional power.

The agreement - signed in Tokyo by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang - promotes expanded *co-operation between the armed forces* of the two countries in areas such as "human resource development, capacity building and visits of military ships".

It also supports a memorandum of understanding signed by Japan and Vietnam in October 2011 that facilitated the creation of a bilateral defence and security forum, mutual ministerial visits, and exchanges between Japan's Self-Defence Forces and the Vietnamese military.

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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> Industry
> *Vietnam and Israel sign defence industrial MoU*
> 
> *Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
> 25 March 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam and Israel have signed security-related accords supporting further defence industrial co-operation between the two countries.
> 
> Hanoi said in a statement on 25 March that the memoranda of understanding (MoUs) cover collaboration on security technologies and the protection of classified information.
> 
> The accords were signed in Israel during Vietnam's vice minister of public security Senior Lieutenant-General Dang Van Hieu's recent visit to the country. The Vietnamese delegation also visited Israeli companies specialising in developing counter-terrorism and homeland security equipment, it said.
> 
> *COMMENT*
> The MoUs signify the deepening level of trust that is emerging between Vietnam and Israel. The two countries established diplomatic ties in 1993, although relations have flourished over the past five years in line with Vietnam's economic expansion and Hanoi's concerns about regional threats.


Maybe because Israel found out the hard way by underestimating us? They ended up not even able to close a deal even though they eventually agreed to reduce the price by 80% including tech transfer
Công nghệ quân sự: Người Israel bất ngờ với các kỹ sư Việt Nam | Khoa học | Báo điện tử Tiền Phong


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## Viet

DHC-6 Twin Otter series 400 (Canada)
patrol plane #2 recently arrived, equipped with 360 degree radar. 4 more coming soon.











Gepards & Kilos

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## Viet

test firing a Vietnamese improved version of 4K44 Redut cruise missile:

range 650km, speed Mach 1.4, warhead 1,000 kg TNT, accuracy CEP 30m, mid-course guidance by helicopter Ka-27 or An-26RT C2 relay aircraft

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## Viet

Vietnam supersonic antiship missiles Yakhont:

fire and forget, active-passive radar seeker, range 300km, sea-skimming (10m), immune against enemy electronic countermeasures, speed Mach 2.6, armour-piercing warhead 250kg

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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Maybe because Israel found out the hard way by underestimating us? They ended up not even able to close a deal even though they eventually agreed to reduce the price by 80% including tech transfer
> Công nghệ quân sự: Người Israel bất ngờ với các kỹ sư Việt Nam | Khoa học | Báo điện tử Tiền Phong


that is a good sign. I think we get access to US weapons via Israel.


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## Viet

Hospital vessel HQ-561 of the Vietnam Navy participates in the Komodo exercise (Indonesia).

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## Viet

US President Barack Obama said told Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung he would visit Vietnam soon as the two met on the sidelines of the third Nuclear Security Summit in The Hague, the Netherlands, on Monday, Lao Dong (Labor) Newspaper reported.

US President to visit Vietnam | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> US President Barack Obama said told Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung he would visit Vietnam soon as the two met on the sidelines of the third Nuclear Security Summit in The Hague, the Netherlands, on Monday, Lao Dong (Labor) Newspaper reported.
> 
> US President to visit Vietnam | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily



Obambam doesn't like the face of Thang Dung


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## Rechoice

vtnsx said:


> Obambam doesn't like the face of Thang Dung



Its not so be serious, bro. Any case he will retire in 2016


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## vtnsx

Rechoice said:


> Its not so be serious, bro. Any case he will retire in 2016



Who retires? Obambam?


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## Rechoice

vtnsx said:


> Who retires? Obambam?


 may be both of them.


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## vtnsx

Rechoice said:


> may be both of them.



yeah thank god Obambam is gone in 2 years. Wish it was faster because all he does was increased US debt and didn't approve the XL Keystone project.


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## Rechoice

vtnsx said:


> yeah thank god Obambam is gone in 2 years. Wish it was faster because all he does was increased US debt and didn't approve the XL Keystone project.



same way we can say about our PM. he is responsible for economy crisis in Vietnam in last two years with 5 (or 8) billion US$ pumped in to market without control. It made the bubble of real state market and going to collapse.


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## ViXuyen

From now on, non-officer Vietnamese servicemen are required to cut their hair short and shave their beards.


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## NiceGuy

ViXuyen said:


> From now on, non-officer Vietnamese servicemen are required to cut their hair short and shave their beards.


Our soldiers should cut the hair like Great comrade Kim Jong Un, thats so manly 

funny pic: young VNese with Kim's hair style


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> Obambam doesn't like the face of Thang Dung


whatever...I hope when Obama comes he brings 4 aegis destroyers as gift 



ViXuyen said:


> From now on, non-officer Vietnamese servicemen are required to cut their hair short and shave their beards.


is it a snack? otherwise it is a bit too little for 4 as main dish.


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## Viet

fleet of 6 Osa II class fast attack craft, equipped with

2x AK-230 twin 30 mm CIWS (2000 rounds)
4x P-15 Termit anti-ship missiles (active radar, range 80km, speed Mach 0.9)

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## ViXuyen

500-ton missle boat each arms with 16 Kh-35 missiles. They are underconstruction at Ba Son shipyard. Looks like the navy is receiving preferrential status in developing domestic industry. They are building missile boat, 2500-ton OPV, and next is 2000-tonne corvette from Damen. What's next? Submarine in the 2020's?

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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> is it a snack? otherwise it is a bit too little for 4 as main dish.


Main dish like this




Các phần ăn đang được chuẩn bị phục vu cho bữa ăn của các chiến sĩ quân đội Việt Nam.




Chất lượng bữa ăn của bộ đội Việt Nam ngày càng được cải thiện với đủ rau, thịt, cá và hoa quả tráng miệng.
Điều này cho thấy, công tác hậu cần của quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam được Trung Quốc đặc biệt quan tâm. Thực tế sức mạnh của bất kỳ quân đội nào không chỉ đến từ vũ khí mà còn phần rất quan trọng đến từ sức khỏe người lính.





Công tác hậu cần chăm lo bữa ăn cho chiến sĩ có một vai trò rất quan trọng trong quân đội.




Một bữa ăn hàng ngày của đơn vị quân đội Việt Nam với đầy đủ các dưỡng chất thiết yếu.




"Nhà sạch thì mát, bát sạch thì ngon cơm". Ngoài việc đảm bảo chất lượng bữa ăn, công tác vệ sinh an toàn thực phẩm cũng được đặt lên hàng đầu.

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## Viet

mini sub Spratly on test run 
























NiceGuy said:


> Main dish like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Các phần ăn đang được chuẩn bị phục vu cho bữa ăn của các chiến sĩ quân đội Việt Nam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chất lượng bữa ăn của bộ đội Việt Nam ngày càng được cải thiện với đủ rau, thịt, cá và hoa quả tráng miệng.
> Điều này cho thấy, công tác hậu cần của quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam được Trung Quốc đặc biệt quan tâm. Thực tế sức mạnh của bất kỳ quân đội nào không chỉ đến từ vũ khí mà còn phần rất quan trọng đến từ sức khỏe người lính.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Công tác hậu cần chăm lo bữa ăn cho chiến sĩ có một vai trò rất quan trọng trong quân đội.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Một bữa ăn hàng ngày của đơn vị quân đội Việt Nam với đầy đủ các dưỡng chất thiết yếu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Nhà sạch thì mát, bát sạch thì ngon cơm". Ngoài việc đảm bảo chất lượng bữa ăn, công tác vệ sinh an toàn thực phẩm cũng được đặt lên hàng đầu.


not too bad, the foods for the army

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## Viet

images of a training course for police dogs of Border Guard












Trainers teaching police dogs to perform essential moves





Crossing hurdles





Arresting a suspect











Detecting hidden explosives in a vehicle and drugs in luggage





Following the scent of a set target to assist in criminal investigation





Training police dogs for search and rescue

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## Viet

*Defence Minister to visit RoK*
QĐND - Saturday, March 29, 2014, 18:26 (GMT+7)





PANO – A Vietnamese high-ranking military delegation, led by Minister of National Defence General Phung Quang Thanh, will pay an official visit to the Republic of Korea (RoK) from March 30th to April 1st, at the invitation of Korean Defence Minister Kim Kwan Jin.

Later, the delegation will join an informal meeting between* US Defense Secretary* Chuck Hagel and Defence Ministers of ASEAN member states in Hawaii from April 1st to 3rd.

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## Viet

DCH-6 Twin Otter series 400 (Canada), patrol plane #3 ready for handover to Vietnam Navy
(special feature: Skydive Door for paratroopers)

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## vtnsx

s


ViXuyen said:


> From now on, non-officer Vietnamese servicemen are required to cut their hair short and shave their beards.



About time. They should have done this a long time ago. Nice table top though.

Rejoice & Viet, you guys should learn how to build a jet engine. It's not hard to to design and build one.

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## Rechoice

vtnsx said:


> s
> 
> 
> About time. They should have done this a long time ago. Nice table top though.
> 
> Rejoice & Viet, you guys should learn how to build a jet engine. It's not hard to to design and build one.



Yes, big problem is our industry is lack in technology to produce the engine. here is the first airplan TL -1 made in Vietnam in 1978 by VPA, 34 years ago. But the engine was imported from France.

Sau 3 năm kiên trì thiết kế, chế tạo theo tiêu chuẩn Luật Hàng không Liên bang Far-25 Mỹ, chiếc máy bay loại trinh sát liên lạc TL-1 đầu tiên ra đời. Tháng 8/1980, chiếc máy bay được chế tạo xong và đưa bay thử nghiệm tại sân bay Hòa Lạc. Phi công thử nghiệm là Nguyễn Xuân Hiển (sau này là Tổng Giám đốc Tổng Công ty Hàng không VN).




















Những chiếc máy bay đầu tiên do Việt Nam chế tạo | Tinmoi.vn

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## MarveL

*Việt Nam sẽ mua máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295?**

Việt Nam trong tương lai có thể trở thành khách hàng tiềm năng mua loại máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295 của Airbus và Israel.*

Công ty công nghiệp quốc phòng Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) của Israel đang trong các giai đoạn đàm phán khác nhau với 4 khách hàng quan tâm tới loại máy bay vận tải tầm trung C295 do Airbus Defence & Space chế tạo, nhưng được lắp đặt thêm hệ thống giám sát và cảnh báo sớm trên không (AWACS) do công ty Elta Systems (thuộc IAI) phát triển.





Biến thể máy bay giám sát và cảnh báo sớm trên không C-295 của hãng Airbus và IAI (Israel).

Theo tạp chí Flight Global, máy bay vận tải C295 trước đây đã được Airbus phát triển thêm một cấu hình khí động học có thể lắp đặt được hệ thống radar xoay cho nhiệm vụ giám sát và cảnh báo sớm (AWACS) trên không.

Trong khi đó, Elta Systems (một công ty thành viên của IAI) cũng khá nổi tiếng trong khả năng phát triển và chế tạo các cảm biến tình báo điện tử, thiết bị truyền thông, giám sát, chỉ huy và radar.

Một nguồn tin Israel cho biết rằng, mục đích của phiên bản máy bay giám sát và cảnh báo sớm C-295 là để thu hút được sự quan tâm của lực lượng không quân các nước đang sử dụng thiết kế máy bay vận tải của châu Âu. IAI tiết lộ hiện nay đã có một số nước đang sử dụng loại máy bay vận tải 2 động cơ C-295 thể hiện sự quan tâm đến biến thể giám sát và cảnh báo sớm của máy bay vận tải này.

C-295 AEW được trang bị 2 động cơ cánh quạt PW127G, tốc độ tối đa 576km/h, tốc độ hành trình 480km/h. Máy bay có phạm vi hoạt động tối đa 5.400km, đủ sức kiểm soát không phận trên một khu vực rộng lớn, có khả năng thực hiện nhiệm vụ kéo dài liên tục đến 9 giờ, và có thể hoạt động ở độc cao lên đến 7.930m.

Không quân Việt Nam hiện nay vẫn hoạt động chủ yếu dựa trên các nền tảng các máy bay chiến đấu, tiêm kích bom chủ lực như Su-27/30, Su-22 do Nga/Liên Xô chế tạo và được sự hỗ trợ của một mạng lưới các hệ thống radar tiên tiến đặt trên mặt đất.

Tuy nhiên, trong tác chiến hiện đại, yêu cầu cần có một loại máy bay đóng vai trò như một radar có thể thực hiện các nhiệm vụ giám sát, cảnh báo từ xa là hết sức quan trọng. Vì vậy, rất có thể trong tương lai gần chúng ta sẽ cần trang bị thêm một loại máy bay có vai trò tương tự để nâng cao khả năng tác chiến.

Hồi cuối tháng 5/2013, Không quân Indonesia cũng đã điều một máy bay vận tải chiến thuật CN-295 (một biến thể của C-295) thực hiện chuyến xuất ngoại trình diễn vòng quanh 6 nước ASEAN (trong đó có Việt Nam) để quảng bá khả năng và hiệu suất của loại máy bay vận tải quân sự do hãng sản xuất máy bay PT Dirgantara của Indonesia (PTDI) và công ty Airbus Military hợp tác sản xuất.

Sau chuyến bay trình diễn tại Việt Nam, máy bay CN-295 đã được Bộ Quốc phòng đánh giá rất cao. Ngay sau đó, báo chí Indonesia đưa tin rằng Hà Nội đã thể hiện sự quan tâm đến việc mua được 3 chiếc máy bay loại này.

Trong khi đó, Báo Độc lập của Nga thì cho rằng, với yêu cầu hiện đại hóa không quân trong tương lai gần, Việt Nam sẽ mua ít nhất 2 máy bay cảnh báo sớm trên không, trong đó CASA C-295 là một trong những ứng viên hàng đầu.

Tất cả những cơ sở trên cho thấy, có khả năng cao Việt Nam sẽ là một trong bốn quốc gia đang tham gia đàm phán mua loại máy bay AWACS C-295 của Airbus và Israel để trong tương lai, tăng cường đáng kể năng lực tác chiến cho lực lượng không quân.

Việt Nam sẽ mua máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295? - VTC News

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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> s
> About time. They should have done this a long time ago. Nice table top though.
> 
> Rejoice & Viet, you guys should learn how to build a *jet engine*. It's not hard to to design and build one.


No, you are wrong. Building jet engine is one of the most difficult things. only few countries can.


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## Viet

MarveL said:


> *Việt Nam sẽ mua máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295?*
> *Việt Nam trong tương lai có thể trở thành khách hàng tiềm năng mua loại máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295 của Airbus và Israel.*
> 
> Công ty công nghiệp quốc phòng Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) của Israel đang trong các giai đoạn đàm phán khác nhau với 4 khách hàng quan tâm tới loại máy bay vận tải tầm trung C295 do Airbus Defence & Space chế tạo, nhưng được lắp đặt thêm hệ thống giám sát và cảnh báo sớm trên không (AWACS) do công ty Elta Systems (thuộc IAI) phát triển.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biến thể máy bay giám sát và cảnh báo sớm trên không C-295 của hãng Airbus và IAI (Israel).
> 
> Theo tạp chí Flight Global, máy bay vận tải C295 trước đây đã được Airbus phát triển thêm một cấu hình khí động học có thể lắp đặt được hệ thống radar xoay cho nhiệm vụ giám sát và cảnh báo sớm (AWACS) trên không.
> 
> Trong khi đó, Elta Systems (một công ty thành viên của IAI) cũng khá nổi tiếng trong khả năng phát triển và chế tạo các cảm biến tình báo điện tử, thiết bị truyền thông, giám sát, chỉ huy và radar.
> 
> Một nguồn tin Israel cho biết rằng, mục đích của phiên bản máy bay giám sát và cảnh báo sớm C-295 là để thu hút được sự quan tâm của lực lượng không quân các nước đang sử dụng thiết kế máy bay vận tải của châu Âu. IAI tiết lộ hiện nay đã có một số nước đang sử dụng loại máy bay vận tải 2 động cơ C-295 thể hiện sự quan tâm đến biến thể giám sát và cảnh báo sớm của máy bay vận tải này.
> 
> C-295 AEW được trang bị 2 động cơ cánh quạt PW127G, tốc độ tối đa 576km/h, tốc độ hành trình 480km/h. Máy bay có phạm vi hoạt động tối đa 5.400km, đủ sức kiểm soát không phận trên một khu vực rộng lớn, có khả năng thực hiện nhiệm vụ kéo dài liên tục đến 9 giờ, và có thể hoạt động ở độc cao lên đến 7.930m.
> 
> Không quân Việt Nam hiện nay vẫn hoạt động chủ yếu dựa trên các nền tảng các máy bay chiến đấu, tiêm kích bom chủ lực như Su-27/30, Su-22 do Nga/Liên Xô chế tạo và được sự hỗ trợ của một mạng lưới các hệ thống radar tiên tiến đặt trên mặt đất.
> 
> Tuy nhiên, trong tác chiến hiện đại, yêu cầu cần có một loại máy bay đóng vai trò như một radar có thể thực hiện các nhiệm vụ giám sát, cảnh báo từ xa là hết sức quan trọng. Vì vậy, rất có thể trong tương lai gần chúng ta sẽ cần trang bị thêm một loại máy bay có vai trò tương tự để nâng cao khả năng tác chiến.
> 
> Hồi cuối tháng 5/2013, Không quân Indonesia cũng đã điều một máy bay vận tải chiến thuật CN-295 (một biến thể của C-295) thực hiện chuyến xuất ngoại trình diễn vòng quanh 6 nước ASEAN (trong đó có Việt Nam) để quảng bá khả năng và hiệu suất của loại máy bay vận tải quân sự do hãng sản xuất máy bay PT Dirgantara của Indonesia (PTDI) và công ty Airbus Military hợp tác sản xuất.
> 
> Sau chuyến bay trình diễn tại Việt Nam, máy bay CN-295 đã được Bộ Quốc phòng đánh giá rất cao. Ngay sau đó, báo chí Indonesia đưa tin rằng Hà Nội đã thể hiện sự quan tâm đến việc mua được 3 chiếc máy bay loại này.
> 
> Trong khi đó, Báo Độc lập của Nga thì cho rằng, với yêu cầu hiện đại hóa không quân trong tương lai gần, Việt Nam sẽ mua ít nhất 2 máy bay cảnh báo sớm trên không, trong đó CASA C-295 là một trong những ứng viên hàng đầu.
> 
> Tất cả những cơ sở trên cho thấy, có khả năng cao Việt Nam sẽ là một trong bốn quốc gia đang tham gia đàm phán mua loại máy bay AWACS C-295 của Airbus và Israel để trong tương lai, tăng cường đáng kể năng lực tác chiến cho lực lượng không quân.
> 
> Việt Nam sẽ mua máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295? - VTC News


not confirmed yet. just speculation.


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> not confirmed yet. just speculation.


No its not. Its very simple, viet. U got compressor one end and fuel injection and an ignitor then turbine. Much more simpler than gasoline engine


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## Viet

meeting with the armed forces. I think the president informs the generals about his talks in Japan recently.


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## ViXuyen

Two KN-series OPV have already been launched. Damn, our media is so quiet about this.

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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Two KN-series OPV have already been launched. Damn, our media is so quiet about this.


...same type of vessel but different painting than of the coast guard

specs: based on the Damen 9014 OPV, 2,500 t, length of 90 metres, a beam of 14 metres, top speed 21 knots, equipped with two fixed machine guns and twin fire monitors, surveillance and navigation radars, a helicopter deck aft enables operation of a Ka-28 helicopter, crew of 70, built by Song Thu Ship Building Company.

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## Viet

just for someone who is interested...

new built and is in service since 2012: 6 Svetlyak-class vessels

displacement 375 tons, speeds 30 knots. range 2,2 thousand miles, armed with 30-mm artillery AK-306, 7.56-mm AK-176M gun mount, 16 rocket launchers Igla-1M and two machine guns 14.5 mm

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## Viet

guided missile destroyer USS John S. McCain will anchor in Da Nang on April 7 for a 6 day visit.
(Hope we would get 4 pieces of this toy in future).

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## Viet

flag raising ceremony for the first 2 Kilos (Cam Ranh)

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## Viet

Thursday, April 03, 2014 15:05 Da Nang International Airport

Going home: repatriate what are believed to be the remains of three American servicemen who went missing in action (MIA) during the Vietnam War.

The remains were set to be transported to Hawaii, where they will undergo DNA testing to try to confirm their identities.

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## Viet

Vietnamese and Indonesian at multinational Naval Exercise Komodo 2014





Major General Dniel R.Hokanson from US Oregon National Guard visits Hanoi 4/2/2014.

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## ViXuyen

Lunch, anyone?








Submarine training facility at Cam Ranh

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## ViXuyen

Signing ceremony of P-18M radar license production between Vietnam and Czech Republic

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## ViXuyen

Hopefully we can build submarine in the near future

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## Fukuoka

DIscrimination in Vietnam doesn't make a competent elite
The vietnamese people don't trust their elite and know they are very corrupted


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## Edison Chen

ViXuyen said:


> Hopefully we can build submarine in the near future



Good one.

I hope it will be on the top selling list in the toy's category of Amazon or Ebay.


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## EastSea

Edison Chen said:


> Good one.
> 
> I hope it will be on the top selling list in the toy's category of Amazon or Ebay.



We do not sell it. Its military secret weapon for suicide attacks on warships of enemy invaded in to our sea..


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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Submarine training facility at Cam Ranh


hm...I expected to see the simulator looking like inside a sub: dark and narrow


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## Viet

visit of USS McCain and USNS Safeguard in Da Nang

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## Hakan

*Vietnam to receive two more Gepard frigates in 2017*




The People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy is scheduled to take delivery of its third and fourth Russian-built Gepard 3.9 (Project 11661) light frigates in 2017, according to financial statements released by Russia's Zelenodolsk Shipyard on 1 April.

The PAVN Navy commissioned its first two modified Gepard-class frigates, _Dinh Tien Hoang_ and _Ly Thai Ho_ , in March and August 2011 respectively. The two additional vessels, reported to be anti-submarine warfare (ASW) variants, are being built under a contract signed in late 2011.

The class is based on a Russian Navy design, but modified according Vietnamese requirements by the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau. The vessels feature a low-observable superstructure, have an overall length of 102 m, and displace 2,100 tonnes at full load. The vessels can reach a top speed of 26 kt and have a range of 5,000 nautical miles at 10 kt.

According to _IHS Jane's Fighting Ships_ , the light frigates' armaments include one 76 mm AK-176, two 30 mm AK-630, and two AO-18KD guns. The ships can embark a Ka-28 or Ka-31 naval helicopter on deck.

The Gepard class is expected to replace the four Petya (Project 159)-class light frigates that have been in service for more than 30 years.

Vietnam to receive two more Gepard frigates in 2017 - IHS Jane's 360

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

ViXuyen said:


> Lunch, anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Submarine training facility at Cam Ranh



Wheres the rice?


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## ViXuyen

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Wheres the rice?


In the upper right hand corner of the second pic, that should be the rice, usually one big bowl for a couple of men to share at one table


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

ViXuyen said:


> In the upper right hand corner of the second pic, that should be the rice, usually one big bowl for a couple of men to share at one table



Yeah, your probably right. There is too much without rice to balance the meal. Looks good and hearty.

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## Rechoice

We produce too much rice and we can not export all surplus amount of rice to international market now. I think our soldier could take cooked rice as much as they could.


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## BoQ77

Rechoice said:


> We produce too much rice and we can not export all surplus amount of rice to international market now. I think our soldier could take cooked rice as much as they could.



Vietnam get the 3rd seaplane
for surveil and protect the SCS











This is the 2nd seaplane ( Vietnam rarely order without any modification )

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## Viet

Kaan said:


> *Vietnam to receive two more Gepard frigates in 2017*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy is scheduled to take delivery of its third and fourth Russian-built Gepard 3.9 (Project 11661) light frigates in 2017, according to financial statements released by Russia's Zelenodolsk Shipyard on 1 April.
> 
> The PAVN Navy commissioned its first two modified Gepard-class frigates, _Dinh Tien Hoang_ and _Ly Thai Ho_ , in March and August 2011 respectively. The two additional vessels, reported to be anti-submarine warfare (ASW) variants, are being built under a contract signed in late 2011.
> 
> The class is based on a Russian Navy design, but modified according Vietnamese requirements by the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau. The vessels feature a low-observable superstructure, have an overall length of 102 m, and displace 2,100 tonnes at full load. The vessels can reach a top speed of 26 kt and have a range of 5,000 nautical miles at 10 kt.
> 
> According to _IHS Jane's Fighting Ships_ , the light frigates' armaments include one 76 mm AK-176, two 30 mm AK-630, and two AO-18KD guns. The ships can embark a Ka-28 or Ka-31 naval helicopter on deck.
> 
> The Gepard class is expected to replace the four Petya (Project 159)-class light frigates that have been in service for more than 30 years.
> 
> Vietnam to receive two more Gepard frigates in 2017 - IHS Jane's 360


I don´t get it. why the Russians need 3 years to complete a Gepard, but only one year for a Kilo?


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## Viet

launch of HQ-185 Khánh Hòa

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## Viet

the commercial part of Cam Ranh port will be ready soon to serve (offering repair and maintenance services) foreign ships including submarines. The US navy is very interested.

U.S. to send ships for repair at Vietnam’s Cam Ranh port: commodore | Tuổi Trẻ news

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## Viet

DEFENSE STUDIES: Russia to Upgrade 'Unique' BPS-500 Missile Ship of Vietnam

Missile guided corvette HQ-381 (BPS-500 class) has received an overhaul to maintain combat capapilty.

equipped with Pozitiv ME multimode reconnaissance and aerial targets radar range 100km, ships fire control radar and communications systems, one AK-176 naval cannon, eight anti-ship cruise missiles Uran-E (130km range), 2 anti-aircraft artillery emplacements AK-630, combination of low altitude air defense missile Igla and 2 x 12.7 mm gun.

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## Viet

2 Su-30s fly over the new Kilo subs ***salute ***

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## Viet

the food for the army is not too bad...is much better than mine at home 
I should join the army.

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## Rechoice

Training is very hard, I think so.


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## Pangu

Viet said:


> launch of HQ-185 Khánh Hòa



Nice view of the propeller!


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## ViXuyen

BPS-500, Gepard, Molniya is a waste of our resources. What Vietnam needs is something like a Visby. The Visby is so stealthy that it can take out enemies' destroyers and frigates even within visual range if the Visby decides to break the horizon. The Visby is so stealthy that even if you can see it within visual range, your radar can't even detect it let alone guide your missiles to it. Since Vietnam does have long range anti-ship missiles, Vietnam wlll need something stealthy to close the distant between enemies' ships and the Visby will allow that; sneaking up near your enemies' ship and launch shells and missiles at them without getting detected.


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## Viet

I am for a new squadron of subs equipped with AIP and aegis like destroyers equipped with Yakhonts.


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## Viet

test firing
*S-125-2TM Medium Range Air Defence System*

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## Viet

photos of visit of USS John McCain and USNS Safeguard in Vietnam (Da Nang city)

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## Genesis

ViXuyen said:


> BPS-500, Gepard, Molniya is a waste of our resources. What Vietnam needs is something like a Visby. The Visby is so stealthy that it can take out enemies' destroyers and frigates even within visual range if the Visby decides to break the horizon. The Visby is so stealthy that even if you can see it within visual range, your radar can't even detect it let alone guide your missiles to it. Since Vietnam does have long range anti-ship missiles, Vietnam wlll need something stealthy to close the distant between enemies' ships and the Visby will allow that; sneaking up near your enemies' ship and launch shells and missiles at them without getting detected.



yea, no it can't. It's stealthy, not invisible. It can still be detected. The range depends, but with modern navies including China moving to AESA radars on ships, the range has expanded.

So, no, it's not that useful, besides, missiles these ships can carry are not the hardest to intercept.


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## Viet

Genesis said:


> yea, no it can't. It's stealthy, not invisible. It can still be detected. The range depends, but with modern navies including China moving to AESA radars on ships, the range has expanded.
> 
> So, no, it's not that useful, besides, missiles these ships can carry are not the hardest to intercept.


given the balance of power in the SE Sea I think the best thing to keep Chinese surface fleet in check is for Vietnam to continue increasing unterwater combat capacity.

Vietnam needs more subs. perhaps nuclear subs.


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

Viet said:


> given the balance of power in the SE Sea I think the best thing to keep Chinese surface fleet in check is for Vietnam to continue increasing unterwater combat capacity.
> 
> Vietnam needs more subs. perhaps nuclear subs.



I think VN need an new order for submarines in 2020 (maybe 6 subs next), But I do not know what type they should be?
(excluding nuclear subs.)

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## ViXuyen

According to Vietnamese defence forum, we're in possession of Israel's ACCULAR and EXTRA rockets; hope to see pics soon

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## Viet

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> I think VN need an new order for submarines in 2020 (maybe 6 subs next), But I do not know what type they should be?
> (excluding nuclear subs.)


have you checked how many subs, destroyers and frigates the Chinese possess? you will be shocked by the sheer number!
no, not 2020, but we need asap more warships: 6 diesel subs, 4 destroyers, 4 frigates and 2 nuclear subs.

why nuclear subs? if China sends warships into the SC Sea, we should be able to send ours to the East China Sea and Indian Ocean to threaten their lifeline. only nuclear subs can raise the stakes, while surface warships can´t, so they are forced to think twice before doing stupid things.


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## ViXuyen

Song Thu shipyard

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## nufix

> 4 Star General of Indonesian Armed Force Gen. Moeldoko meets the Vietnamese BMP-1 crews during his official visit to Vietnam.

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## ViXuyen

This company exports wind turbine tower to the U.S. They can roll steel plate with a diameter up to 6 meters. (largest in Vietnam as far as I know) Somebody must let the ministry of defense know so the company might participate in future defense projects like submarine building or rocket eh

Hệ thống máy móc và thiết bị


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## Viet

technical trials completed: 2 new Vietnamese-built Molniya corvettes - HQ-377 and HQ-378, equipped with uran missiles.

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## Viet

nufix said:


>


we need new tanks, for example T-90. the existing ones we possess T-55 are too old.













do we have new rifles?

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## ViXuyen

MANPAD under development

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## Viet

interesting news from Russia:

Vietnam plans to produce 10 more Molnija class corvettes (bringing the number to 16) and double the number of Gepard frigates (bringing the number to 12). Unclear whether we will buy the frigates or produce them in Vietnam using Russian license, like the Molnija class corvettes.

Molnija corvette





Gepard frigate





the article says further Russia will deliver all toys whatever Vietnam wants. Voice of Russia is the mouth piece of the government of Russia.

so can we order nuclear subs too?

Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands

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## nufix

Viet said:


> we need new tanks, for example T-90. the existing ones we possess T-55 are too old.



I think the T 55 is quite all right, you still could use it for a swarm attack. At least Vietnam has the most number of tanks in SE Asia which could perform such attack.


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## Nike

nufix said:


> I think the T 55 is quite all right, you still could use it for a swarm attack. At least Vietnam has the most number of tanks in SE Asia which could perform such attack.



My self don't think it will be a nice idea, any Armed forces equipped with light ATGM or RPG 7 will be enough to stop those relics tank in urban combat. Vietnam still need to upgrade their armor inventory, T-90 or Oplot will be a nice addition for the to spear heading any movement/maneuver.


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## nufix

madokafc said:


> My self don't think it will be a nice idea, any Armed forces equipped with light ATGM or RPG 7 will be enough to stop those relics tank in urban combat. Vietnam still need to upgrade their armor inventory, T-90 or Oplot will be a nice addition for the to spear heading any movement/maneuver.



Swarm attack does not work on urban combat, I mean swarm attack for border breaching. Enemy infantries with RPG or ATGM will pee in their pants for seeing 400 tanks coming at them at once.


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## Nike

nufix said:


> Swarm attack does not work on urban combat, I mean swarm attack for border breaching. Enemy infantries with RPG or ATGM will pee in their pants for seeing 400 tanks coming at them at once.



Yes it will be a repeat of Battle of Longewala (1971 India-Pakistani War), considering the terrain of all Vietnamese border. Without proper armor still they are vulnerable against a determined defender.


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## Fukuoka

Viet said:


>


NV people are really strange people, i thought they hated the bad americans?

South vietnamese are more logic people


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## EastSea

Fukuoka said:


> NV people are really strange people, i thought they hated the bad americans?
> 
> South vietnamese are more logic people



South Vietnamese came from North. Every Vietnamese hated bad american, like Nixon and his warmongers but not american people at all.
ya, we south Vietnamese reunified Vietnam under Nguyen Dynasty, and in Vietnam war south Vietnamese were top leaders in North. South Vietnam liberation front made a key item in policy for that we taken power in Siagon 1975.

Yes, we are logic people. and now President and PM of Govt Vietnam are south Vietnamese.

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## Rechoice

Fukuoka said:


> NV people are really strange people, i thought they hated the bad americans?
> 
> South vietnamese are more logic people



Ho Chi Minh is North Vietnamese, he tried to prevent conflict with USA from time 1944, in WW II.







_*Ho Chi Minh *with OSS men from USA._

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## Fukuoka

EastSea said:


> South Vietnamese came from North. Every Vietnamese hated bad american, like Nixon and his warmongers but not american people at all.
> ya, we south Vietnamese reunified Vietnam under Nguyen Dynasty, and in Vietnam war south Vietnamese were top leaders in North. South Vietnam liberation front made a key item in policy for that we taken power in Siagon 1975.
> 
> Yes, we are logic people. and now President and PM of Govt Vietnam are south Vietnamese.


Pro-gov South vietnamese loved the americans, only the sv hit by the nv propaganda fought for the vietcongs



Rechoice said:


> Ho Chi Minh is North Vietnamese, he tried to prevent conflict with USA from time 1944, in WW II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Ho Chi Minh *with OSS men from USA._


He never had fully the support from USA, and no material support

Only SV fought fully with the americans


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## Mr Second Back

Rechoice said:


> Ho Chi Minh is North Vietnamese, he tried to prevent conflict with USA from time 1944, in WW II.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Ho Chi Minh *with OSS men from USA._


Who is the person that got a tie? Le Duan?(just guess)


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## Rechoice

Mr Second Back said:


> Who is the person that got a tie? Le Duan?(just guess)



He is Vo Nguyen Giap.


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## Hakan

*Vietnam to arm new Gepard-class frigates with Palma CIWS*
(this was probably posted already)




​The People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy will equip its third and fourth Russian-built Gepard 3.9 (Project 11661) light frigates with the Palma close-in weapon system (CIWS), Nudelman Precision Engineering Design Bureau confirmed in a statement issued 22 April.

The PAVN is scheduled to take delivery of the vessels, reported to be anti-submarine warfare (ASW) variants, in 2017. The first two ships in class, _Dinh Tien Hoang_ and _Ly Thai Ho_ , were commissioned in March and August 2011 respectively and loaded with a similar CIWS.

The Palma CIWS consists of Sosna-R hypersonic surface-to-air missiles, two six-barrel AO-18KD 30 mm automatic cannons and the 3V-89 electro-optical multichannel electronic countermeasures resistant fire-control system. The principal control system is electro-optic with radar back-up.

According to company literature, the system can engage six targets at up to 8 km simultaneously depending on the number of firing modules installed. The manufacturer indicates a gun kill envelope of 0.2 to 4 km to an altitude of 3,000 m and a missile kill envelope of 1.6 to 10 km to an altitude of 5,000 m.

Vietnam to arm new Gepard-class frigates with Palma CIWS - IHS Jane's 360
​

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## BoQ77



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## Viet

pictures of visit of Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov during official visit to Vietnam on April 15-16, 2014.

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## Viet

Vietnam and Bulgaria have agreed to establish strategic partnership and to increased cooperation in economics, national defence and security, during Bulgarian Prime Minister Plamen Oresharki four-day visit to Vietnam on April 6.











Vietnam and Malaysia have agreed to closer tie in economics and national defence during Malaysian PM Najib Tun Razak to Vietnam, April 3-5.

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## ViXuyen

Test firing of a newly built missile boat

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## Viet

Russia begins to construct the 6th Kilo Sub for the navy, according to the media.

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## Viet

_Not sure if this news was posted yet?_


Vndata: Vietnam starts producing its 300km range anti-ship missile *X-35*
Friday, December 20, 2013




X-35 or Vietnamization version called Uran-V (Thiên Vương Tinh- V) missile.

Bao Dat Viet cited _Russia & CIS Defense Industry Weekly_ reporting that, in 2013, Vietnam plans to create production capacity of *Kh-35 Uran UV* anti-ship missile (The Voice of Russia calls it *X-35* and Vietnam newspapers call it *Uran-V*) - a product developed with the help of Russia, similar to the type of production of Indi-Russian BrahMos Joint Venture.

The magazine quoted Mikhail Dmitriev, the Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation ( FSMTC ), said that the field of technical cooperation between Russia and Vietnam has good prospects for further development in future close, despite the impact of intense competition in the field of defense exports in the world today.

"In the current conditions and the contracts are prepared to sign, Vietnam has sufficient short-term basis to become the No.1 of Russia's military cooperating technical partner in Southeast Asia", said Mr. Dmitriev.

He added that, in the meeting of the Intergovernmental Committee FSMTC recently, the two sides have not only discuss the provision of ready-made weapons, but also focus on joint developing projects , forming joint ventures and service center for supplying military equipment under the previous agreement.

Mr. Dmitriev emphasis on joint developing project of advanced anti-ship missile Kh-35 Uran-UV ( Уран-УВ ) between Russia and Vietnam. In addition, the two sides also discussed the possibility of that Vietnam will buy the third defense coast missile Bastion-P system, as well as Su-30MK2 multi-functional fighters and new air defense missile system.

"The fact that Russia and Vietnam had planned to create new missile based on the original Kh-35 Uran anti-ship missile in February this year (2/2013)", Dmitriev revealed.

"This year, Vietnam plans to create production capacity of Russia's Uran type based on super cruise anti-ship missile like the type of joint production of Russian- Indian Brahmos missile " , the FSMTC officials said .

According to the report of the _Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC (KTRV)_, KTRV conducted a technical meeting on orders of Vietnam dicussing on the development of the anti-ship missile system Uran-V on April 2012, three additional designs were assigned to Vietnam for the signed contract.

KTRV added that, in 2012, the two sides held discussions and agreed on the technical aspects, price and the conditions for producing Kh-35 Uran-UV in Vietnam . The contract price at about $1b.

The specifications of new anti-ship missiles for Vietnam has not been disclosed, but according to the _Voice of Russia_ , the new missile will have long-range strike targets up to 300 km and carries a warhead of 300 kg each. The missile, which can resist high intensity interference level of enemy firepower, is designed to operate in any weather conditions. Thus, comparing with the prototype, the new missile takes a doubled range.

Mr. Igor Korotchenko, leader of the Russian Center for Analysis of Global Arms Market, said: "This is an efficient subsonic missile. It can overcome firepower of any naval forces. of course, the missile will be adapted to the needs of Vietnam, like the missile that Russian - Indian Brahmos joint venture developing.





_Missile wings controlling to drive warhead to hit the targets._
Specifications:

Speed: 1,100km/h
Farthest shooting range: 300km
Nearest shooting range: 5km
Ceiling above sea level: 5-10m
Ceiling above sea level approaching the target (final stage): 3-5m
Body length: 3.75m
Diameter: 0.4 m
Wingspan: 0.9 m
Warhead weight: 145 - 300kg
Load capacity at launching: 630kg

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## ViXuyen

Unofficial source tells us that the project is finished. However, Russian just send over CKD kits for us to assemble the missile. They do not transfer tech to us for manufacturing the engine and radar seeker.


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## ViXuyen

Test firing of Kh-35 missile and Israel's EXTRA rocket

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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> Unofficial source tells us that the project is finished. However, Russian just send over CKD kits for us to assemble the missile. They do not transfer tech to us for manufacturing the engine and radar seeker.


I had seen a report of a Vietnamese warship test firing a X-35 antiship missile.
The next Molniyas and Gepards will probably carry this type of long range rockets. 300km is a good distance weapon.

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## Fsjal

ViXuyen said:


> Test firing of a newly built missile boat


Is it a Vietnamese version of Osa class?


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## ViXuyen

Fsjal said:


> Is it a Vietnamese version of Osa class?


 It's the Molniya


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## Viet

the Kilos will be equipped with 3M-54 Klub missiles and TEST-71 torpedos, Russia´s ones of most advanced weapons.

Research Institute Stockholm International Peace SIPRI's report showed that Vietnam has ordered a total of 50 antiship cruise missiles 3M-54 Klub (range 200km), 80 antiship torpedo 53-65 and 80 anti-ship/anti-submarine TEST-71 torpedo (range 20km).

by 2016, we will have the most modern fleet submarine in the region.

DEFENSE STUDIES: Arrival of 3 Killers Which Equips Kilo Submarine of Vietnamese Navy








3M-54 Klub






TEST-71 torpedo

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## ViXuyen



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## ViXuyen

DN-2000 #8002

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## Viet

I like the pics

Dien Bien Phu´s victory parade

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## Viet



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## Viet

credit to International- german.china.org.cn - Vietnam: großangelegte Parade abgenommen

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## Viet

a guided missile frigate "Gepard" seen in Da Nang city

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## Viet

as the tension with China has escalated, the WSJ reports Vietnam looks to purchase Eurofighter Typhoon or the Gripen, built by Sweden's Saab.

Typhoon





http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579551503192742852?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304431104579551503192742852.html


Interesting now to see how Russia responds to this escalation.
a media assumes the tension will damage China relationship to Russia.

Comment: The world's most dangerous water fight | SBS News

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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> as the tension with China has escalated, the WSJ reports Vietnam looks to purchase Eurofighter Typhoon or the Gripen, built by Sweden's Saab.
> 
> Typhoon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579551503192742852?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304431104579551503192742852.html
> 
> 
> Interesting now to see how Russia responds to this escalation.
> a media assumes the tension will damage China relationship to Russia.
> 
> Comment: The world's most dangerous water fight | SBS News


 Do you have the full paid subscription article? Can you paste the entire article here? The WSJ tend to have very accurate news as I remember it was the first to break the news about Vietnam and U.S were negotiating on nuclear cooperation


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## Viet

@ViXueng, here is the full article. I enlarge the font of the parts with fighter jets Typhoon and Gripen.


ASIA NEWS

*Vietnam Seeks to Be a Tough Adversary to China*
Ahead of Tensions Over Oil Rig, Hanoi Had Taken Steps to Beef Up Military

By
TREFOR MOSS
The Wallstreet Journal
May 9, 2014 8:11 a.m. ET





_A Chinese ship using a water cannon on a Vietnamese ship in disputed waters in the South China Sea. Agence France-Presse/Getty Images_

Long before China towed a huge oil platform into disputed waters east of Vietnam this week, the Vietnamese government started making preparations for just this situation.

Its response to the increased assertiveness of its powerful neighbor to the north, leaders decided, should be to invest heavily in advanced military capabilities—especially naval systems—that would make Beijing think twice before threatening Vietnamese interests.

Not all of Hanoi's new military hardware had had time to arrive when over the past week tensions escalated over China's plans to start drilling for oil in disputed waters off Vietnam. It isn't clear whether more military might would have given China pause. Nor is it clear what the implications of a Chinese neighbor more aggressively arming itself may be for an already fragile regional-security landscape.

Like several of its neighbors, Vietnam has overlapping claims with China to large swaths of the South China Sea, including areas believed to be rich in energy reserves.

Their rivalry has ended in bloodshed in the past, with scores of Vietnamese troops dying in two separate clashes over disputed islets in the 1970s and 1980s. China remains in control of the territory it seized during those battles —a fact which irks Vietnamese nationalists to this day. But clashes haven't always been one-sided victories for China. A 1979 border war, which was supposed to be a punitive incursion after Vietnam invaded Chinese ally Cambodia, ended inconclusively, with China bloodied.

Now, Vietnam is beefing up its firepower hoping to improve its odds in these exchanges.

"Vietnam has ordered these [new capabilities] as a deterrent to China and to show, if push comes to shove, that they'd be able to give China a bloody nose," said Ian Storey, a senior fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, a Singapore-based think tank.

A new submarine fleet, comprising six Russian Kilo-class submarines, will be the jewel in the crown of Vietnamese defense—once it is up and running. But only two of the six boats have been delivered so far, and they won't be fully operational for a while.

And even when all the orders have been delivered, Vietnam will still be far behind China in terms of military might. China is also rapidly modernizing its armed forces, and outguns Vietnam in every department—especially when it comes to naval forces. The Chinese navy possesses a fleet of 60 frigates and destroyers, according to the U.S. Department of Defense, as well as 35 attack submarines—although not all of these are tasked in the South China Sea.

Vietnam has various types of advanced military equipment in the pipeline besides its much-prized submarines. These include six new Gepard 3.9 frigates and 10 Molniya fast-attack craft from Russia, as well as two state-of-the-art Sigma corvettes from the Netherlands. These are all fast, and in some cases stealthy, types of ship armed with antiship missiles capable of denying Chinese vessels access to waters claimed by Hanoi.

The Russians are also helping Vietnam set up an antiship-missile production facility in the country, while providing the Vietnamese air force with a third squadron of modern Sukhoi Su-30MK2 fighter aircraft—an advanced jet which China itself operates.

Hanoi is meanwhile evaluating several European fighter jets, Mr. Huxley said, including the Eurofighter Typhoon, and the Gripen, built by Sweden's Saab,SAAB-B.SK +1.42% with a view to further augmenting its air power. The addition of advanced European fighters could give Hanoi an important edge over Beijing, which is prevented from buying Western materiel by long-standing arms embargoes. China is, however, developing its own next-generation fighter aircraft.






_Gripen_

Vietnam won't assemble an arsenal to rival China's, but its determined efforts to modernize its military could be sufficient to help shape future Chinese behavior, said Tim Huxley, the executive director of IISS-Asia, a security think tank.

He said, "The Vietnamese are serious customers," whose history of resistance against both the U.S. and China in the 1960s and 1970s still looms large in the national consciousness. "Vietnam can never defeat China," Mr. Huxley continued, "but they can offer bloody resistance to China."

As a fellow Communist regime which must be responsive to nationalist pressures, Beijing understands that Hanoi cannot allow itself to be humiliated when it comes to the protection of national sovereignty, he said, "and so China cannot be sure at what point Vietnam would respond militarily." That uncertainty would serve as a brake on Chinese actions that could potentially invite Vietnamese reprisals, he said.

In addition, the bond between the two neighbors, though strained at times, is also deep, both culturally and economically. Communications are frequent: A deputy Vietnamese prime minister attended last month's Boao forum, a Chinese-government sponsored talk shop on Hainan island. Their militaries, too, have periodic visits, and in 2013 the two sides agreed to set up a hotline between their two navies to help reduce the risk of conflict.

Meanwhile, Vietnam's military buildup to counter China stands in stark contrast to some of China's other neighbors also involved in territorial spats, such as the Philippines, which is taking China to court in The Hague, accusing it of breaching the United Nations Law of the Sea through its territorial claims.

Some in Vietnam ask whether a military buildup alone will be enough to temper Chinese behavior.

"Vietnam should take stronger diplomatic steps," argued Tran Cong Truc, a former head of Vietnam's National Border Committee. "Maybe it's time for Vietnam to quickly sue China" at the U.N.," he suggested, following the lead of the Philippines.

However, Mr. Storey said that China's outright rejection of the U.N. tribunal launched at the Philippines' request would be more likely to convince Hanoi that it needed to double down on its military approach, and order still more new weaponry.

"Events like [the deployment of the Chinese oil rig] will simply accelerate Vietnam's military modernization," he said.

—Vu Trong Khanh in Hanoi contributed to this article.

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## Viet

but neither Typhoon nor Gripen are designed to carry nuclear weapons.

if Vietnam wants nuclear deterrence, we will need a fleet of F-35s, and of course the permission and supports of Uncle Sam. What about the costs?

well, Israel signed a deal in 2013 to acquire 19 Stealth bombers for $2.7b. So similar about the amount of our fleet of 6 Kilo subs.

Report: New F-35 Fighter Plane that Israel Purchased from U.S. Can Carry a Nuclear Bomb | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com


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## BoQ77

It better to see ASEAN countries could joint operate in regional security group for defending ourselves. there would be a force with about 30 submarines, hundreds of surface combatants, 500+ modern aircrafts, dozen of military bases for common usage.


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## Soryu

Very nice clip about Vietnam People Navy:


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> It better to see ASEAN countries could joint operate in regional security group for defending ourselves. there would be a force with about 30 submarines, hundreds of surface combatants, 500+ modern aircrafts, dozen of military bases for common usage.


Unrealistic as the 10 countries have too different interests. I see little chance of realisation. Even the 10 armies combined will have massive problems in fighting against Chinese aggressions, unless they all come under our command. Most importantly is the bloc doesn´t possess nuclear weapons as ultimate deterrence.

We shall negotiate with America and Japan with the goal of a military alliance. I am not too sure about Russia.

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## AViet

Viet said:


> @ViXueng, here is the full article. I enlarge the font of the parts with fighter jets Typhoon and Gripen.
> 
> He said, "The Vietnamese are serious customers," whose history of resistance against both the U.S. and China in the 1960s and 1970s still looms large in the national consciousness. "Vietnam can *never defeat China*," Mr. Huxley continued, "but they can offer bloody resistance to China."
> 
> .


 
Another stupid so-called “Western expert” as usual. Vietnam defeated China many times. According to “Viet Nam Su Luoc” by Tran Trong Kim (a great historian and once Prime Minister of the puppet pro-Japan government in 1945), Vietnam was stronger than China militarily in the Song – Ly dynasties period. At that time, China army was even organized following Dai Viet model. When Nung Tri Cao (or Nong Zhigao) revolted, Chinese emperor (Tống Nhân Tông - Song Renzong) was going to call Dai Viet army in to China to help to quell him, if one of his advisor not advised him to stop. During this era, Dai Viet army under Ly Thuong Kiet attacked Ung Chau (modern Nanning city in Guangxi province) and other cities in Guangdong province and killed at least 48,000 people in Ung Chau

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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> but neither Typhoon nor Gripen are designed to carry nuclear weapons.
> 
> if Vietnam wants nuclear deterrence, we will need a fleet of F-35s, and of course the permission and supports of Uncle Sam. What about the costs?
> 
> well, Israel signed a deal in 2013 to acquire 19 Stealth bombers for $2.7b. So similar about the amount of our fleet of 6 Kilo subs.
> 
> Report: New F-35 Fighter Plane that Israel Purchased from U.S. Can Carry a Nuclear Bomb | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com


F-35A is $200 million per copy including spares and weapons. Affordability won't be a problem for us by 2020 if the U.S is willing to sell. If the U.S is willing to sell nuke reactors to us, F-35A shouldn't be a problem.


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## ViXuyen

According to the latest news, a total of 6 will be built in Vietnam. I guess we cap this project at 8 in total


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## BoQ77

Turkey just decided to get 100 f35 with budget 16 bill. Having some loan Vietnam could get 36 F35 with 4-5 bill. while a contract to exxon mobil valued 20 bill .


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## Viet

air patrol over Spratlys





warships on standby





on patrol at sea





Marines in a free fall training





Coast guard on patrol


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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> According to the latest news, a total of 6 will be built in Vietnam. I guess we cap this project at 8 in total


WSJ says it will be 10 Molyina´s in total.
besides, Russia media reveals Vietnam plans to build 10 more, so we will have 20 Molyina´s in total 

Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579551503192742852







the Chinese possess a fleet of 60 frigates and destroyers, as well as 35 attack submarines.
currently they outgun us. To catch up, we need a squadron of destroyers (6) and an additional squadron of submarines (6).


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## Beidou2020

We will always outgun you. Not just currently. If you think the situation is bad right now, just give us a few more years and see how much you are outgunned then.


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## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> We will always outgun you. Not just currently. If you think the situation is bad right now, just give us a few more years and see how much you are outgunned then.


that is the reason why Vietnam needs to join a military alliance soon.


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## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> that is the reason why Vietnam needs to join a military alliance soon.



Selling yourself already?


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## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Selling yourself already?


becoming a member of a military alliance is NOT selling oneself, you fool.

if peope follow your logic, then Germany sells itself to foreigners too as it is a member of NATO.

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## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> becoming a member of a military alliance is NOT selling oneself, you fool.
> 
> if peope follow your logic, then Germany sells itself to foreigners too as it is a member of NATO.



Germany is a defeated nation under Yankee occupation. Yankees pretty much run German foreign policy.


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## ViXuyen

Beidou2020 said:


> We will always outgun you. Not just currently. If you think the situation is bad right now, just give us a few more years and see how much you are outgunned then.


 Are you getting nervous about our rearmament?


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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> WSJ says it will be 10 Molyina´s in total.
> besides, Russia media reveals Vietnam plans to build 10 more, so we will have 20 Molyina´s in total
> 
> Warum Vietnam mehr russische Waffen braucht - Nachrichten - Gesellschaft - Stimme Russlands
> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304431104579551503192742852


Nope, not 10 or 20 my friend; it's a total of 8 missile boats. This is confirm by the Vietnamese Navy
Bắn các tên lửa của Hải quân Việt Nam: Khẳng định năng lực làm chủ vũ khí trang bị kỹ thuật mới, hiện đại | Quốc phòng | Thanh Niên Online

The Molniya missile boat is the last missile boat that we will buy/build. We're moving on to the next project...Sigma corvette


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## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> Germany is a defeated nation under Yankee occupation. Yankees pretty much run German foreign policy.


NATO consists of 28 member countries. so all are slaves of the yankees?

you have humor.


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## Beidou2020

Viet said:


> NATO consists of 28 member countries. so all are slaves of the yankees?
> 
> you have humor.



Any country that has foreign military bases does not have true independence.



ViXuyen said:


> Are you getting nervous about our rearmament?



Vietnam has nothing that even remotely bothers the PLA. Vietnam has lost every war in the last century without Soviet and Chinese help.


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## visom

Beidou2020 said:


> Any country that has foreign military bases does not have true independence.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam has nothing that even remotely bothers the PLA. Vietnam has lost every war in the last century without Soviet and Chinese help.


Ha, ha, haaaa.


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## ViXuyen

visom said:


> Ha, ha, haaaa.


What can we do? They like to live in their "Chinese dream" instead of harsh reality. Up till 2004, we only had 12 su-27 and they did not have the balls to attack us; let alone NOW.


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## ViXuyen

Brand new built in Ha Long; preparing to enter the "battle"

Special purpose: ramming







Testing

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> we need new tanks, for example T-90. the existing ones we possess T-55 are too old.
> 
> do we have new rifles?



FN FNC5.56mm rifle, from Belgium.


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## visom

ViXuyen said:


> What can we do? They like to live in their "Chinese dream" instead of harsh reality. Up till 2004, we only had 12 su-27 and they did not have the balls to attack us; let alone NOW.


I'm not laughin at Vietnam, I'm just laughing at how clueless and full of crap his statement is.

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## ViXuyen




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## ViXuyen

KN 781 & KN 782 .....7 more on the way baby

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## ViXuyen

The KN-series and DN-series OPV are equipped with long range acoustic device LRAD


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## Viet

ViXuyen said:


> KN 781 & KN 782 .....7 more on the way baby


9 vessels are not a too bad number.

I like the water cannons  we shall equip all patrol boats with water cannons.



ViXuyen said:


> Nope, not 10 or 20 my friend; it's a total of 8 missile boats. This is confirm by the Vietnamese Navy
> Bắn các tên lửa của Hải quân Việt Nam: Khẳng định năng lực làm chủ vũ khí trang bị kỹ thuật mới, hiện đại | Quốc phòng | Thanh Niên Online
> 
> The Molniya missile boat is the last missile boat that we will buy/build. We're moving on to the next project...Sigma corvette


until we have a large number of Sigma, the Navy should continue building the Molyina.
Build 10 more Molyina and equipp them with Uran or X-35 antiship missiles.


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## Beidou2020

We have dozens and dozens of these


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## Viet

Beidou2020 said:


> We have dozens and dozens of these


if you come back in 5 or 10 years, and you will see Vietnam will have more warships than sharks in the SC Sea

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## Viet

as the tension has escalated in the SC Sea, the US navy wants more cooperation. Will the VN government accept this?
If yes, perhaps this will be the first step on a long road toward a Vietnam-America military alliance.

_"We are interested in engaging with all our partners in the South China Sea and would welcome increased port visits with Vietnam," fleet spokesman Commander William Marks said in an emailed response to questions about U.S. naval relations with Vietnam.

"We're talking to U.S. but it is too early to say how the tensions now will change our approach," one Vietnamese military source said. "We have a lot to consider."

U.S. navy renews call for ship visits to Vietnam as tensions worsen| Reuters_


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> 9 vessels are not a too bad number.
> 
> I like the water cannons  we shall equip all patrol boats with water cannons.
> 
> 
> until we have a large number of Sigma, the Navy should continue building the Molyina.
> Build 10 more Molyina and equipp them with Uran or X-35 antiship missiles.


Save up money, bro.
We need more money for larger ships, and Su-35s

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## ViXuyen

Cum shot from KN-781 

In the forseeable future, 9 KN-series and 6-8 DN-Series of this OPV will be in the service of our fishery maritime surveliance and coast guard units. We can sell this vessel to the Phillipines at a friendly price of $40 million usd if they want to buy

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## BoQ77

Vietnam not rally. Vietnam just try to build enough for 4 naval regions.

Damen 2500 quite interesting, Sigma even better with upto 3000t. Building them helps strengthen warship design and building. in turn that help building bigger warships easier.

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## ViXuyen

Viet said:


> 9 vessels are not a too bad number.
> 
> I like the water cannons  we shall equip all patrol boats with water cannons.
> 
> 
> until we have a large number of Sigma, the Navy should continue building the Molyina.
> Build 10 more Molyina and equipp them with Uran or X-35 antiship missiles.


In the next couple of years it will be 8 Molniya + 4 Gepard + 2 Sigma+ 6 Kilo-class. The total anti-ship missiles (Kh-35/Club/Exocet) that they will carry are 212

Btw, each KN-series and DN-series OPV has 4 water cannons

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## Viet

the fun game in the SC Sea continues...with no end in sight.












1 vs. 3

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## fromdesert

Beidou2020 said:


> Any country that has foreign military bases does not have true independence.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam has nothing that even remotely bothers the PLA. Vietnam has lost every war in the last century without Soviet and Chinese help.


If it had not existed China and Soviets, we would have not had any war

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## Viet

_interesting picture of the day:

ASEAN-China Defense Ministers' Meeting, China´s Defense Minister Chang Wanquan (L) meets with Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar, May 19, 2014 (Xinhua/U Aung)._
_
_


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## eazzy

Is the Viet defence minister crying ? Why is he so sad ?

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## Soryu

eazzy said:


> Is the Viet defence minister crying ? Why is he so sad ?


Why are you so "sad" !?


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## eazzy

Seriously just look at his face, what was he thinking about ?  
Looks like he shat himself the moment the photo was taken.

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## Soryu

boring joke ...


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## eazzy

Just type "Blobfish" on Google and you'll see his face.


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## Soryu

eazzy said:


> Just type "Blobfish" on Google and you'll see his face.


Is your face like that ?


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## eazzy

Maybe he just said himself "Damn the 14bn$ casino I built with corrupt money is a shitty idea, it will be a huge failure if no Chinese tourist come !"  Now I understand why he is crying, just realised the huge mistake he made.

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## Soryu

eazzy said:


> Maybe he just said himself "Damn the 14bn$ casino I built with corrupt money is a shitty idea, it will be a huge failure if no Chinese tourist come !"  Now I understand why he is crying, just realised the huge mistake he made.


True, your ideal is shitty. And still so boring ...


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## MarveL

Kyodo News International May 20, 2014 7:42pm
*Vietnamese, Indonesian leaders to meet with Aquino in Manila*

Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono will meet separately with Philippine President Benigno Aquino during their visit to Manila this week for the World Economic Forum on East Asia, officials said Tuesday.

Foreign Affairs spokesman Charles Jose said Aquino will meet with Dung on Wednesday to "discuss matters of mutual concern, including cooperative activities in defense, tourism, and trade and investment."

Faced with tense disputes with China over territories in the South China Sea, Philippine Communications Secretary Herminio Coloma said it is "reasonable to expect" that Dung and Aquino will "continue to compare notes on the two countries' experience in dealing with issues on the South China Sea."

Tension between China and Vietnam sparked last week over China's stationing of an oil rig near the disputed Paracel Islands in the South China Sea, with Chinese vessels ramming and using water cannons on Vietnamese vessels.

Similar issues hound the Philippines and China, especially with Manila's recent discovery that Beijing has been fortifying a disputed area in the Johnson Reef, which the Philippines says is in violation of a 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of the Parties in the South China Sea by China and Southeast Asian nations, and the arrest by Philippine authorities of Chinese fishermen at Half Moon Shoal on May 6.

Aquino will meet with Yudhoyono on Friday "to discuss matters of mutual concern, including political, defense and border, maritime, economic and socio-cultural cooperation," Jose said.

The foreign affairs department announced Monday that Manila and Jakarta have "completed the negotiations for the delimitation of their overlapping exclusive economic zones in the Mindanao and Celebes seas with the finalization of the text of the agreement and the chart on the EEZ boundary."

The 200-nautical-mile EEZ is provided by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea for coastal states.

Jose said the agreement with Indonesia is a good example in dealing with territorial disputes.

The 20-year negotiation with Jakarta shows that "we could have patience and that we could negotiate that long," he said, but added the boundary issue with Indonesia was "not really comparable" with the conflict with China.

"In the case with China, there's no overlapping EEZ. So there's nothing to demarcate. It's very clear in the provisions of (the law of the sea) where our EEZ starts and ends, and where China's EEZ starts and ends," Jose said, adding that China just has to drop its sovereignty claim over almost the entire South China Sea.

During the World Economic Forum on East Asia, Aquino and Dung will share the stage with Myanmar Vice President U Nyan Tun at the opening plenary on Thursday.

On the same day, Yudhoyono will be conferred with the Global Statesmanship Award. Indonesia will host next year's World Economic Forum on East Asia.

Organizers of this year's forum said more than 600 government and business leaders as well as leaders from civil society and academia, representing more than 30 countries, will participate in the May 21-23 event and tackle issues under the theme "Leveraging Growth for Equitable Progress."

==Kyodo

Vietnamese, Indonesian leaders to meet with Aquino in Manila | GlobalPost

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## Viet

Kilo sub






Gepard frigate






Kh-35E antiship missiles aboard of Molyina corvette






Mig-21 squadron






Su-30






combat radius of the 3 modern fighter regiments

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## Soryu

The Su-22M4 fighter-bombers of the 937th Fighter Regiment (370th Division)

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## fromdesert

eazzy said:


> Maybe he just said himself "Damn the 14bn$ casino I built with corrupt money is a shitty idea, it will be a huge failure if no Chinese tourist come !"  Now I understand why he is crying, just realised the huge mistake he made.


Chinese come with dust, impolite, poison. no need and never welcome chinese. we want china get of my country, all

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## Viet

FM Pham Binh Minh and US Secretary of State John Kerry had a phone conservation over the escalation in the region recently.
Pham will visit the US soon.







there are signs that Vietnam and Philippines work toward an alliance.

Philippines, Vietnam agree to forge strategic partnership | Shanghai Daily
Vietnam and Philippines agree to oppose China - Yahoo News

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## Viet



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## Viet

The U.S. military commander in the Pacific, Adm. Samuel Locklear, says Vietnam is welcome to seek a security alliance with Washington.

I think we should consider this offer seriously. A military alliance with America increases our strength and ensures our national territory.







US commander warns of China-Vietnam standoff | Fox News

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## eazzy

PLEASE do it. I want to see that before I die.

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## Viet

Japan´s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe greets Vietnam's Deputy Prime Minister Vu Duc Dam, Tokyo on Thursday.
Both hold talks on the from China triggered escalations in the East and South China Sea.

Japan speeds up consultation on provision of patrol ships to Vietnam 
Foreign minister Kishida will visit Vietnam in late June, to increase ties in maritime security.







Japan, Vietnam blame China for maritime tensions | The Japan Times

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## Soryu

eazzy said:


> PLEASE do it. I want to see that before I die.


How many old are you !?

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## ViXuyen



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## Viet

in a military school





meeting of the general staff





new recruits





the army has 4 levels of combat readiness (1= lowest, 4= highest).

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## Viet

Vietnam-Japan relation is developing well.

















our Japanese friend is expected to provide a number of bulk patrol vessels similar like these.

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## dingyibvs

Viet: 5699233 said:


> The U.S. military commander in the Pacific, Adm. Samuel Locklear, says Vietnam is welcome to seek a security alliance with Washington.
> 
> I think we should consider this offer seriously. A military alliance with America increases our strength and ensures our national territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US commander warns of China-Vietnam standoff | Fox News



Really? You're realizing this just now? If all you numbnuts realized this 50 years ago you would at least be enjoying the living standards of the Thais if not the South Koreans. Instead you died by the millions in a meaningless war. It's OK, it's still not too late, there are plenty of Viets in America who'll be more than willing to help you guys topple your corrupt Communist government and install a Democratic one with freedom, liberty, as well as the wealth and international support to wrest those islands from the Chinese.



Viet: 5699233 said:


> The U.S. military commander in the Pacific, Adm. Samuel Locklear, says Vietnam is welcome to seek a security alliance with Washington.
> 
> I think we should consider this offer seriously. A military alliance with America increases our strength and ensures our national territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US commander warns of China-Vietnam standoff | Fox News



Really? You're realizing this just now? If all you numbnuts realized this 50 years ago you would at least be enjoying the living standards of the Thais if not the South Koreans. Instead you died by the millions in a meaningless war. It's OK, it's still not too late, there are plenty of Viets in America who'll be more than willing to help you guys topple your corrupt Communist government and install a Democratic one with freedom, liberty, as well as the wealth and international support to wrest those islands from the Chinese.


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## ViXuyen

dingyibvs said:


> Really? You're realizing this just now? If all you numbnuts realized this 50 years ago you would at least be enjoying the living standards of the Thais if not the South Koreans. Instead you died by the millions in a meaningless war. It's OK, it's still not too late, there are plenty of Viets in America who'll be more than willing to help you guys topple your corrupt Communist government and install a Democratic one with freedom, liberty, as well as the wealth and international support to wrest those islands from the Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? You're realizing this just now? If all you numbnuts realized this 50 years ago you would at least be enjoying the living standards of the Thais if not the South Koreans. Instead you died by the millions in a meaningless war. It's OK, it's still not too late, there are plenty of Viets in America who'll be more than willing to help you guys topple your corrupt Communist government and install a Democratic one with freedom, liberty, as well as the wealth and international support *to wrest those islands from the Chinese*.


Relax, chief. The last time South Vietnam allied with America, America blessed China by letting China robbed the Paracel Island from South Vietnam at gunpoint without doing a SINGLE thing. Most of us Viets do not like how corrupted our government is but most of us won't ever allow those oversea deserter Viets who never suffered a day under communism to come back and rule us; that's a pipe dream. Any democratic government in Vietnam will be ruled by the former communist party officials; not by a bunch of deserters who hopped onto the U.S carrier and ran away from Vietnam in 1975

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## vtnsx

ViXuyen said:


> Relax, chief. The last time South Vietnam allied with America, America blessed China by letting China robbed the Paracel Island from South Vietnam at gunpoint without doing a SINGLE thing. Most of us Viets do not like how corrupted our government is but most of us won't ever allow those oversea deserter Viets who never suffered a day under communism to come back and rule us; that's a pipe dream. Any democratic government in Vietnam will be ruled by the former communist party officials; not by a bunch of deserters who hopped onto the U.S carrier and ran away from Vietnam in 1975



If Ho Chi Minh was still alive today, Vietnam would be a totally different country and there won't be any corruption. Just saying.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ViXuyen said:


> Relax, chief. The last time South Vietnam allied with America, America blessed China by letting China robbed the Paracel Island from South Vietnam at gunpoint without doing a SINGLE thing. Most of us Viets do not like how corrupted our government is but most of us won't ever allow those oversea deserter Viets who never suffered a day under communism to come back and rule us; that's a pipe dream. *Any democratic government in Vietnam will be ruled by the former communist party officials*; not by a bunch of deserters who hopped onto the U.S carrier and ran away from Vietnam in 1975



Too bad the US won't trust them even they become democratic.

The US will try to control you again by installing their loyal puppets into your country via a color revolution.


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## Soryu

vtnsx said:


> If Ho Chi Minh was still alive today, Vietnam would be a totally different country and there won't be any corruption. Just saying.


We can't depend on himself forever, he's good leader, so we must study him, follow his righteousness about nationalist, patriotism ...

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## dingyibvs

Let me get this straight, so you blame the Americans for "letting" the Chinese take the Paracels while they shed their blood and spent their money to hold off the Communists for decades, yet you expect them to help you take back those very same islands now? 

You want democracy and you admit to have suffered under the Communists, yet you want to be ruled by the very same corrupt Commies if you become democratic?

I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from.


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## EastSea

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Too bad the US won't trust them even they become democratic.
> 
> The US will try to control you again by installing their loyal puppets into your country via a color revolution.



cheap propaganda.

US come soon in front of your door. greedy Chinese invite USA come here to region. US will set uo hegemony here in Asia and control China as well.


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## Soryu

Vietnam special force training on Spratly Islands







VPAN load weapon on Kilo Subs:

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## DragonEmpire

Soryu said:


> Vietnam special force training on Spratly Islands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VPAN load weapon on Kilo Subs:


I hope Vietnam makes a move. Then our tanks will roll into Hanoi!


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## Soryu

DragonEmpire said:


> I hope Vietnam makes a move. Then our tanks will roll into Hanoi!


What's move for your hope, kid !?


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## EastSea

DragonEmpire said:


> I hope Vietnam makes a move. Then our tanks will roll into Hanoi!



Like this.

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## DragonEmpire

LOL we slaughtered Viet civilians like pigs in 1979. This time we will spray you with orange and make you grow fish eyes.


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## EastSea

DragonEmpire said:


> LOL we slaughtered Viet civilians like pigs in 1979. This time we will spray you with orange and make you grow fish eyes.



You ran back very fast.

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## Soryu

DragonEmpire said:


> LOL we slaughtered Viet civilians like pigs in 1979. This time we will spray you with orange and make you grow fish eyes.


We know you can slaughter all this world with your mouth, keep it progress, you can become King of Universe for sure ...


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## ViXuyen

*Russia Lays Down 6th Kilo-Class Sub for Vietnam*

Russia Lays Down 6th Kilo-Class Sub for Vietnam | Defense | RIA Novosti

----------------------------------

My prediction: there will be no more submarine for Vietnam until the 2020's

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## Viet

For the first time ever, Vietnam joins peace keeping mission of the UN. 1st Station: South Sudan. Job: taking over the communications of the UN Operations.

UN Under-Secretary-General for Field Support Ameerah Haq taking photos with two officers of Vietnamese peacekeeping force.

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## vtnsx

DragonEmpire said:


> LOL we slaughtered Viet civilians like pigs in 1979. This time we will spray you with orange and make you grow fish eyes.



It's funny how you kept bragging about one event that is so insignificant to us when you compared that to Vietnam war against USA. Vietnam is the only country by far to win against the American. What have you done lately? hmmm, right nothing. You didn't even win any war. Only trash talk coming from your mouth because that's all you can do and good at it. Maybe you should train more Kung Fu and Wushu to help you fight us against our AK 47s. Hey, I think you can block bullets when you practice Kung Fu everyday! LOL @Kung fu what a joke art. Not even practical in a real fight. hahahaha

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## Reashot Xigwin

vtnsx said:


> It's funny how you kept bragging about one event that is so insignificant to us when you compared that to Vietnam war against USA. *Vietnam is the only country by far to win against the American*. What have you done lately? hmmm, right nothing. You didn't even win any war. Only trash talk coming from your mouth because that's all you can do and good at it. Maybe you should train more Kung Fu and Wushu to help you fight us against our AK 47s. Hey, I think you can block bullets when you practice Kung Fu everyday! LOL @Kung fu what a joke art. Not even practical in a real fight. hahahaha



"Winning" is such a strong word when in actuality the North won by default. A little history lesson from moi.


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## Viet

Su-27 squadron is being prepared for an extensive modernization.





combat training with anti tank rockets





a Gepard on patrol





a sharp shooter

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## MacanJawa

a sharp shooter




[/quote]

looks like pindad SS1 right?

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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> a sharp shooter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like pindad SS1 right?


I googled. yes, you are right.


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## ViXuyen

New MV of our national anthem

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## Viet

_Shangri-La Dialogue *Singapore: meeting between Vietnam Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh and US Minister of Defense Chuck Hagel. Chuck will visit Vietnam in November.

Photo: TN_






with French defence minister Jean-Yves Le Drian





and the pics of the day

_Wang Guanzhong (1st R), deputy chief of general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), meets with Vietnamese Deputy Minister of National Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh (2nd L) during the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, May 30, 2014. China and Vietnam held a bilateral talk on the first day of the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore. (Xinhua/Then Chih Wey)_

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## Viet

air defence

the modernization of the S-300PMU-2 Favorit systems is complete, which allows it to engage 36 targets flying as low as 10 meters off the ground at a range of 200km, and guide 72 missiles simultaneously.

the army has two batteries (12 launchers). the missiles can shoot down enemy aircraft, cruise missiles, as well as ballistic missiles and stealth fighter jets.








infantry

shooting training: every soldier is trained to kill the "target" with 1 or max. 3 bullets.

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## Viet

Navy

more TT400TP gunboats under construction?

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## Viet

Vietnam main battle tank

T-55, equipped with 100mm main gun D-10T2S, stable system with two center longitudinal axis flavor - STP-2 Tsyklon horizontal, effectively range of 1,000 meters.

tank can fire different ammo types: 

explosive blast fragmentation UOF-412
armor-piercing bullets UBR-412 
concave anti-tank ammunition (HEAT) 3UBK4
heat trail (APDS-T) 3UBM6
under sized bullet had clogs lined barrel stabilizing fins (APFSDS) 3UBM11
anti-tank guided ammunition (ATGM)

The T-55s can be equipped with anti-tank missile fired through the barrel, increasing range increased to 4-6km. 
*
DEFENSE STUDIES: T-54/55 MBT of the Vietnamese People's Army
*

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## Viet

$600m. Russia will deliver 4 Su-30MK2 this year: two in November, two in December. 8 more aircrafts will be delivered in 2015.






fresh money for the coast guard: $756m, just approved by the parliament






a new patrol vessel (DN-2000 class) enters service after finishing sea trial.






firing exercise on a Spratly island

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## ViXuyen

The Prime Minister has allocated $200 million usd to build 4 more of this ship in 2015





Video of the PM visiting the ship
Kiểm ngư Việt Nam chuẩn bị tiếp nhận 2 tàu tuần tra hiện đại | soha.vn

According to the latest news, 122 mm, 130 mm and 152 mm artillery shells are produced locally.

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## vtnsx

ViXuyen said:


> The Prime Minister has allocated $200 million usd to build 4 more of this ship in 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Video of the PM visiting the ship
> Kiểm ngư Việt Nam chuẩn bị tiếp nhận 2 tàu tuần tra hiện đại | soha.vn
> 
> According to the latest news, 122 mm, 130 mm and 152 mm artillery shells are produced locally.




That same $200 mil can be reinvested in advanced Education in Engineering and Manufacturing as well as heavy industries and advance machinery including precision machining, advance materials, computers, rocketry, communications, etc, etc.

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## tbquestion

vtnsx said:


> That same $200 mil can be reinvested in advanced Education in Engineering and Manufacturing as well as heavy industries and advance machinery including precision machining, advance materials, computers, rocketry, communications, etc, etc.


Just more punching bags for the Chinese that's all. Damen is making a fortune, wish I own their stocks.


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## tbquestion

tbquestion said:


> Just more punching bags for the Chinese that's all. Damen is making a fortune, wish I own their stocks.


Imagine if China buys Damen ,then they would have more reasons for ramming Vietnamese CG ships.


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## Viet

tbquestion said:


> Just more punching bags for the Chinese that's all. Damen is making a fortune, wish I own their stocks.


whatever you wish. The VN government just approves a new procurement for 2015, for $700m:

- 4 new 2,500 tons and 15 new 1,500 tons patrol vessels
- 3,000 steel hull fishing vessels

In medium term, we will build up to *30,000* steel vessels.


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## Viet

Japan's National Security Secretariat cabinet councillor Major-General Jun Nagashima in Hanoi on June 6.





US Secretary of Defence for Asian and Pacific Security Affairs Kelly Magsamen in Hanoi June 4.





Thailand´s acting Foreign Minister Sihasak Phuangketkeow in Hanoi on June 5.


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## Soryu

VPA's C-75 missile training exercise:

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## BoQ77

These Lego-like bricks shot down some dozen of Stratofortress B52 during 12 days and nights of Linebackers 2 operation.

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## Viet

Great news for the Navy:

Damen Shipyard in Vietnam won a contract to construct a 90 m, 2,400-ton aviation training ship for the Australian Navy. That means we are soon be capable to build Dutch corvettes, frigates and destroyers for your needs 

_Australia puts AWD programme on projects of concern list - IHS Jane's 360
_


> _IHS Jane's_ has learned that a contract is expected to be placed shortly for a 90 m, 2,400-ton aviation training ship for the RAN that will be built by Damen Shipyards in Vietnam. A senior Department of Defence source said the decision to have the ship constructed in Vietnam was based on schedule and cost.

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## Viet

Industry
*Canada, Vietnam to expand defence industrial ties*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
05 June 2014


Canada and Vietnam have pledged to expand defence industrial ties during meetings held in Hanoi between officials from the defence ministries of both countries.

A statement by the Vietnamese government on 5 June said it was seeking to establish a "future partnership" with Canada in the defence industry as part of an expanded bilateral relationship between the two countries. Both sides also highlighted potential for closer co-operation in search and rescue operations and military training exercises.

The meetings in Hanoi were led by Vietnam's Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and visiting Rear Admiral Gilles Couturier, director general of the Canadian Defence Ministry's international security policy.

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## Soryu

*Toward the East Sea*

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## Viet

Sea Platforms
*Vietnam navy receives third TT400TP patrol vessel*
*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
01 June 2014

The People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy took delivery of its third and final TT400TP-class patrol vessel on 28 May.





_A TT400TP-class vessel similar to the recently commissioned HQ 274. (Tuoi Tre News, Vietnam)_

The boat (pennant number HQ 274) was ordered from Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company in Hai Phong.

According to Vietnamese state media, each TT400TP is armed with two 14.5 mm air-defence guns, one AK-176 76 mm automatic cannon, and one radar-guided, six-barrelled 30 mm AK-630 close-in weapon system (CIWS) turret, which can fire 3,000 rds/min up to a maximum effective range of 2 km.

The 420-tonne boats can carry 35 crew and have a top speed of 32 kt and a range of 2500 n miles.

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## Viet

England´s most advanced destroyer HMS Daring (D32) visited Đà Nẵng last december.
Each unit costs 1.68 billion USD.

There are voices that we need a fleet of such sophisticated warships for air defence in the medium term.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> England´s most advanced destroyer HMS Daring (D32) visited Đà Nẵng last december.
> Each unit costs 1.68 billion USD.
> 
> There are voices that we need a fleet of such sophisticated warships for air defence in the medium term.



If this was made in Vietnam with the same technology in place, it could costs Vietnamese government $200 million each.

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## mike2000

Well done Vietnam, im impressed by your defence purchases/equipments. I think Vietnams military/navy is among the top in ASEAN. But as someone here said, its true it will also be good if vietnam can invest more on science, Engineering,Manufacturing Machinery, computers, rocketry, communications education. This is the only way it will enable Vietnam to indegenise its defence needs and produce almost all these weapons which is currently mostly import/produce under license from Russia/west. So hope vietnam can invest more in education in these areas i mentioned.
Overall i think Vietnam is well equiped militarily for its size. Compared to the Phillipines, Vietnam at least can produce some patrol ships, corvetes, and military vessels, and hopefully it will be able to produce Sophisticated Frigates in future(investment in science/engineering education will be critical for this to happen). th Philippines by contrast cant produce even a patrol vessel independently, and has to rely on 1940s and 50s U.S patrol vessels(which she still find difficult to afford, relying on gift instead.). I think the philippines can learn alot from Vietnam, Their navy/military is a real Joke. Sometimes it seems being almost a colony of the U,.S has make the philipines governement to neglect its own defence needs. Relying on freebies from other powers. Vietnam can help teach the Phillippines alot about self reliance.Looking at their military, I find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger economy than Vietnam.
Great Going Vietnam keep it up, im impressed.  Looking forward to visit Vietnam hopefully soon.

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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> If this was made in Vietnam with the same technology in place, it could costs Vietnamese government $200 million each.


well, $200m a ship is not realistic, even when we could produce everything under foreign licenses.
More realistic is if we would produce a part and import the other part (like we build the Molyina corvettes), then we could save 50 per cent of the cost.

Assuming we could do with $800m a ship (instead of $1.68b). a squadron of 4 ships would cost $3.2b.

Considering the massive aerial threats from chinese warships and fighter jets today and in the future, in few years we would need these destroyers for air defence.


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## Soryu

mike2000 said:


> Well done Vietnam, im impressed by your defence purchases/equipments. I think Vietnams military/navy is among the top in ASEAN. But as someone here said, its true it will also be good if vietnam can invest more on science, Engineering,Manufacturing Machinery, computers, rocketry, communications education. This is the only way it will enable Vietnam to indegenise its defence needs and produce almost all these weapons which is currently mostly import/produce under license from Russia/west. So hope vietnam can invest more in education in these areas i mentioned.
> Overall i think Vietnam is well equiped militarily for its size. Compared to the Phillipines, Vietnam at least can produce some patrol ships, corvetes, and military vessels, and hopefully it will be able to produce Sophisticated Frigates in future(investment in science/engineering education will be critical for this to happen). th Philippines by contrast cant produce even a patrol vessel independently, and has to rely on 1940s and 50s U.S patrol vessels(which she still find difficult to afford, relying on gift instead.). I think the philippines can learn alot from Vietnam, Their navy/military is a real Joke. Sometimes it seems being almost a colony of the U,.S has make the philipines governement to neglect its own defence needs. Relying on freebies from other powers. Vietnam can help teach the Phillippines alot about self reliance.Looking at their military, I find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger economy than Vietnam.
> Great Going Vietnam keep it up, im impressed.  Looking forward to visit Vietnam hopefully soon.


Philippines is not bad like that, I heard that they produced some small patrol boat, transport ship, military vehicle ...

Vietnamese step out from many great wars and stand right beside the Giant China for very long time ago, so we have more clever long term policy and made many effort on defense issues.
Philippine by contrast, depended so much on the Treaty with USA, and ...



Viet said:


> Considering the massive aerial threats from chinese warships and fighter jets today and in the future, in few years we would need these destroyers for air defence.


VPA 's still bet on Su-30MK2V and Kilo 636.1 until 2025 or at least 2020, I think.

We need large vessel for coast guard and FSR, and for fishermen, right now.

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## mike2000

Soryu said:


> Philippines is not bad like that, I heard that they produced some small patrol boat, transport ship, military vehicle ...
> 
> Vietnamese step out from many great wars and stand right beside the Giant China for very long time ago, so we have more clever long term policy and made many effort on defense issues.
> Philippine by contrast, depended so much on the Treaty with USA, and ...
> 
> 
> VPA 's still bet on Su-30MK2V and Kilo 636.1 until 2025 or at least 2020, I think.
> 
> We need large vessel for coast guard and FSR, and for fishermen, right now.






well you are right, i agree its mainly because Vietnam is next to a Giant like China, and had to fight long wars to gain their independence from China for a 100years under which China colonised Vietnam, coupled with the vietnam war and 1979 china invasion.
I do admire Vietnams courage,determination and effort to be self reliant. this is how countries should behave, not relying on freebies(since nothing comes free in politics). I still find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger GDP than Vietnam yet they are so lacking in defence spending/equipment. Even Myanmar and bengladesh(whi boith have a smaller GDP than philippines) have a better military/Navy than they do. I just dont understand how. Seems as you said its mainly because the Philippines relies(is almost a colony) on the U.S. This is a bad policy the philipine has adopted i think. They should welcome the U.S but at the same time they too should should strive and produce their own weapons/improve their defence themselves before totally relying on the U.S . Just like south Korea, who though relies on the U.S has a very robust/credible national defence industry. Since there will come a time when even the U.S wont be willing/able to afford to come to their rescue(despite being the master), in this case they will have to rely on themselves. recent example of China seizing Scarborough and second thomas shoal is a good example, the U.S didi nothing, same with north korea sinking of seouls ship, the U.S didi basiclly nothing.
So i think its good Vietnam is localizing its defence equipments. Since it will have to rely on itself first(No ASEAN country will come to their rescue since they have their own personal interests to protect with China).
However, it will be good for Vietnam to also increase it strategic relationship with the U.S and form some kind of alliance. This will make it carry more weight in its negotiation with China. It shouldnt rely on Russia for obvious reasons.
But overall, i do think it will be good for Vietnam to prioritize negotiations with China on this issue(SCS), this will be the best long term solution, since Vietnam will never be able to defeat China in a Naval confrontation and in decade or so from now, China will simply be too big economically/militarily that it will be hard even for the U.S to even offer verbal support. So think Vietnam should play it wise and avoid emotion in pursuing its interests, while also avoiding to overspend on it military and not ignore its other national economic issues(recent Asian games fiasco wasnt a good example/image). 
GOOD LUCK TO VIETNAM, i admire your country alot, small yet so tough.

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## Soryu

mike2000 said:


> well you are right, i agree its mainly because Vietnam is next to a Giant like China, and had to fight long wars to gain their independence from China for a 100years under which China colonised Vietnam, coupled with the vietnam war and 1979 china invasion.
> I do admire Vietnams courage,determination and effort to be self reliant. this is how countries should behave, not relying on freebies(since nothing comes free in politics). I still find it hard to believe Philippine has a larger GDP than Vietnam yet they are so lacking in defence spending/equipment. Even Myanmar and bengladesh(whi boith have a smaller GDP than philippines) have a better military/Navy than they do. I just dont understand how. Seems as you said its mainly because the Philippines relies(is almost a colony) on the U.S. This is a bad policy the philipine has adopted i think. They should welcome the U.S but at the same time they too should should strive and produce their own weapons/improve their defence themselves before totally relying on the U.S . Just like south Korea, who though relies on the U.S has a very robust/credible national defence industry. Since there will come a time when even the U.S wont be willing/able to afford to come to their rescue(despite being the master), in this case they will have to rely on themselves. recent example of China seizing Scarborough and second thomas shoal is a good example, the U.S didi nothing, same with north korea sinking of seouls ship, the U.S didi basiclly nothing.
> So i think its good Vietnam is localizing its defence equipments. Since it will have to rely on itself first(No ASEAN country will come to their rescue since they have their own personal interests to protect with China).
> However, it will be good for Vietnam to also increase it strategic relationship with the U.S and form some kind of alliance. This will make it carry more weight in its negotiation with China. It shouldnt rely on Russia for obvious reasons.
> But overall, i do think it will be good for Vietnam to prioritize negotiations with China on this issue(SCS), this will be the best long term solution, since Vietnam will never be able to defeat China in a Naval confrontation and in decade or so from now, China will simply be too big economically/militarily that it will be hard even for the U.S to even offer verbal support. So think Vietnam should play it wise and avoid emotion in pursuing its interests, while also avoiding to overspend on it military and not ignore its other national economic issues(recent Asian games fiasco wasnt a good example/image).
> GOOD LUCK TO VIETNAM, i admire your country alot, small yet so tough.


Thanks for your good words about Vietnam, buddy. Hope you have a great trip if you visit Vietnam 

We know it'll be wise and good thing for us solve SCS issues by peaceful solutions, that's said always by Vietnamese Government if you read the news.
But China and her desires 're went far beyond that way, they want take all SCS, push US forces back out west of Pacific, break the first chain island, they want more power and become hegemony like US.
No peace if China keep their way to bully small nation. So Vietnam need US as a counter-balance power in region and people who love peace on the world support for us. That will made China take their seat on negotiation table. 

P/S: for Philippines case, I think they come with their mind about defense issue a little too late.

Defense issues in modern world will take country like Philippines so many years from now, so they need speed up more.
They will need many resources, not only money, but infrastructure, rebuild their base, building new military doctrine, training people and new weapons ... all take many time to prepare those things.

South Korea is difference case, they have to face with their North brother after WW2, and they got the lesson from Vietnam War: US can abandon her ally if they're not value anymore ...

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## mike2000

Soryu said:


> Thanks for your good words about Vietnam, buddy. Hope you have a great trip if you visit Vietnam
> 
> We know it'll be wise and good thing for us solve SCS issues by peaceful solutions, that's said always by Vietnamese Government if you read the news.
> But China and her desires 're went far beyond that way, they want take all SCS, push US forces back out west of Pacific, break the first chain island, they want more power and become hegemony like US.
> No peace if China keep their way to bully small nation. So Vietnam need US as a counter-balance power in region and people who love peace on the world support for us. That will made China take their seat on negotiation table.
> 
> P/S: for Philippines case, I think they come with their mind about defense issue a little too late.
> 
> Defense issues in modern world will take country like Philippines so many years from now, so they need speed up more.
> They will need many resources, not only money, but infrastructure, rebuild their base, building new military doctrine, training people and new weapons ... all take many time to prepare those things.
> 
> South Korea is difference case, they have to face with their North brother after WW2, and they got the lesson from Vietnam War: US can abandon her ally if they're not value anymore ...




well, yes its true, China main rival/target is the U.S, since it wants to chase the U.S out of the west pacific. However in doing so without consulting its neighbours in its intentions, it creates more issues for itself and the region. The best solution will be to share the regions disputed islands among all the different parties and gove free access to all the parties involve in the spratly islands.However, Its a disputed region/islands, so its hard to say China is bullying or anything, since even Taiwan(ROC) has decided to upgrade/build miliatry facilities on the largest Island it controls on the SCS(China hasnt objected or say anything about this for obvious reasons: ROC), sam with philippines shouting/killing taiwanese fisherman in this disputed region a while ago(which caused Taiwan to even imposed sanctions on it). So the region is kind of sadled with disputes among many different countries, Malaysia, philippines, PRC, ROC, Indonesia, Brunei, Vietnam etc all have overlaping claims. SO i think it will be better if these ASEAN countries can solve the overlapping claims among themselves first before taking on China. That way it will be easier for them to takle the dispute with China.
Until they do this, each country will be trying to seek only their own interests in the disputes and there will never be a united front.

Yes i agree Philippines need a new military doctrine. however i dont think they will adopt that, instead they are used to relying on the patron/master U.S, so they dont really care about beffing up their own defence neeeds themselves, coupled with corruption in the army, makes it difficult for them to even start.

As for south Korea , yes its true they have the north to focus on and beef up their defence accordingly, howver you should also know that its not just the north seoul is watching carefuly, they also have island dispute/historical issues with Japan which they view as an ennemy/threat even more than the north. I have been to seoul, and was surprised to see how anti japanese they were, they seem to hate Japan even more than China hates Japan, which shocked me. On a side note, Japan does have an unfavorable view of both south Korea and China ahs well. Asia sure is a complex region to understand. i dont envy the U.S managing this region/maintaing stability there, it aint easy..

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> well, $200m a ship is not realistic, even when we could produce everything under foreign licenses.
> More realistic is if we would produce a part and import the other part (like we build the Molyina corvettes), then we could save 50 per cent of the cost.
> 
> Assuming we could do with $800m a ship (instead of $1.68b). a squadron of 4 ships would cost $3.2b.
> 
> Considering the massive aerial threats from chinese warships and fighter jets today and in the future, in few years we would need these destroyers for air defence.



With cheap labor it is possible. With $1.68 billion is calculated through European standard of living.


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## ViXuyen

Air defence destroyer is just a fancy name for "mobile SAM system on the ocean surface". Ground-based SAM can fire and hide but ship-borned SAM has no where to hide in the middle of the ocean. Air defence destroyer will be a magnet for standoff range Antiship missiles launched from jets or submarines. 

Viet Nam will not have one single ship that cost $1.7 billion usd; that's goes against our military doctrine of "*hoả khí phân tán, hoả lực tập trung*". We will not put most of our eggs in one basket like that. If we really want to build up our air defence in the middle of the ocean, we would buy 6 Gremyashchy Class Corvettes instead. 6 of those ships have a combined fire power of 48 antiship missiles and 96 long-ranged SAMs vs type 45 with only 8 antiship missiles and 48 long-ranged SAMs. Another option of building up our air defence in the middle of the ocean is with $1.7 billion, we might as well put 10 system of the S-300PMU2 on our largest Spratly islands (or our coast). 10 systems of S-300PMU2 have a fire power of 300 SAMs ready to be fired. 

With that being said, I don't think Viet Nam is going to build up our ship-borned air defence anytime soon. The reason is that the distance from our coast to the Paracels or Spratlys is 400 km and 600 km respectively. Our air defence will be our air force. $1.7 billion for a single ship can be spent on 34 Flankers. Jets are mucher faster than ship. Jets can launch standoff ranged antiship missiles like the Kh-35UE that we're working on or the Kh-59MK at enemies' ships and get the hell out of danger. 34 Flankers can launch a combine 136 antiship missiles. OTOH, ship is a sitting duck, it won't out run a jet or missile to get out of danger. 

No need to feel anxious and try to keep up with the Wangs the wrong way

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## BoQ77

Phillipines and Vietnam are two main owners of spratlys. The recent coop show some meanings. Phil bases are the most suitable to protect spratlys.


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## Carlosa

Absolutely correct. Expensive ships, no matter how important they seem to be, they will just be easy targets for the chinese. VN can't afford to waste resources like that.

According to the operational doctrine of the Vietnamese Navy, their priorities when it comes to ships are as follows:

1) Submarines: They are the most survivable ships, difficult to detect and can interdict Chinese warships as well as merchant shipping in the South China Sea.

2) Small, fast and very manoeuvrable ships for hit and run attacks. Molniya class ships fit this criteria.

3) ASW ships of a corvette / light frigate size. Gepard / Sigma class ships with ASW package fit this criteria.



ViXuyen said:


> Air defence destroyer is just a fancy name for "mobile SAM system on the ocean surface". Ground-based SAM can fire and hide but ship-borned SAM has no where to hide in the middle of the ocean. Air defence destroyer will be a magnet for standoff range Antiship missiles launched from jets or submarines.
> 
> Viet Nam will not have one single ship that cost $1.7 billion usd; that's goes against our military doctrine of "*hoả khí phân tán, hoả lực tập trung*". We will not put most of our eggs in one basket like that. If we really want to build up our air defence in the middle of the ocean, we would buy 6 Gremyashchy Class Corvettes instead. 6 of those ships have a combined fire power of 48 antiship missiles and 96 long-ranged SAMs vs type 45 with only 8 antiship missiles and 48 long-ranged SAMs. Another option of building up our air defence in the middle of the ocean is with $1.7 billion, we might as well put 10 system of the S-300PMU2 on our largest Spratly islands (or our coast). 10 systems of S-300PMU2 have a fire power of 300 SAMs ready to be fired.
> 
> With that being said, I don't think Viet Nam is going to build up our ship-borned air defence anytime soon. The reason is that the distance from our coast to the Paracels or Spratlys is 400 km and 600 km respectively. Our air defence will be our air force. $1.7 billion for a single ship can be spent on 34 Flankers. Jets are mucher faster than ship. Jets can launch standoff ranged antiship missiles like the Kh-35UE that we're working on or the Kh-59MK at enemies' ships and get the hell out of danger. 34 Flankers can launch a combine 136 antiship missiles. OTOH, ship is a sitting duck, it won't out run a jet or missile to get out of danger.
> 
> No need to feel anxious and try to keep up with the Wangs the wrong way

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Absolutely correct. Expensive ships, no matter how important they seem to be, they will just be easy targets for the chinese. VN can't afford to waste resources like that.
> 
> According to the operational doctrine of the Vietnamese Navy, their priorities when it comes to ships are as follows:
> 
> 1) Submarines: They are the most survivable ships, difficult to detect and can interdict Chinese warships as well as merchant shipping in the South China Sea.
> 
> 2) Small, fast and very manoeuvrable ships for hit and run attacks. Molniya class ships fit this criteria.
> 
> 3) ASW ships of a corvette / light frigate size. Gepard / Sigma class ships with ASW package fit this criteria.


you're buddy from MP forum, right !?
Are you Vietnamese or Spanish !?


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## Carlosa

Yes, its me. I'm Spanish living in Vietnam.

I've been following this thread for quite some time and I finally joined.



Soryu said:


> you're buddy from MP forum, right !?
> Are you Vietnamese or Spanish !?

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## ViXuyen

> A company spokesperson confirmed this to _IHS Jane's_ , saying that the Socialist Republic of Vietnam had indeed ordered three transport-variant C295 aircraft


 
Airbus DS discloses new variants, customers for C295 aircraft - IHS Jane's 360


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Absolutely correct. Expensive ships, no matter how important they seem to be, they will just be easy targets for the chinese. VN can't afford to waste resources like that.
> 
> According to the operational doctrine of the Vietnamese Navy, their priorities when it comes to ships are as follows:
> 
> 1) Submarines: They are the most survivable ships, difficult to detect and can interdict Chinese warships as well as merchant shipping in the South China Sea.
> 
> 2) Small, fast and very manoeuvrable ships for hit and run attacks. Molniya class ships fit this criteria.
> 
> 3) ASW ships of a corvette / light frigate size. Gepard / Sigma class ships with ASW package fit this criteria.


everything can change, so does the doctrine to deal with the enemies.

In my opinion, Vietnam navy needs bigger warships (destroyers) and more modern subs (AIP). Further the airforce needs more squadrons of advanced fighter jets. At but not least sending more spy sattelites in space as we need pictures from the region.



ViXuyen said:


> Airbus DS discloses new variants, customers for C295 aircraft - IHS Jane's 360


nice, that is the bird 









Carlosa said:


> Yes, its me. I'm Spanish living in Vietnam.
> 
> I've been following this thread for quite some time and I finally joined.


welcome to the forum 
are you working or studying in VN?


----------



## Carlosa

Thank you guys, its good to be here and participate in the discussions. Not working or studying in Vietnam at the moment. Just living here with the Vietnamese wife and kid in beautiful Danang. My work is business related and is not done in Vietnam at the moment but I'm planning to start to do it here in the near future.

--------------

It would certainly be nice for Vietnam to have bigger ships and an actual "blue water" navy, but the issues with that is that Vietnam does not have the resources for that at the moment and anyway, those ships would be very vulnerable to chinese stand off weapons (they have plenty of them).

In the duel between the missile and the ship, the missile is the winner (at least until ships can deploy high power lasers). Any ship, no matter how strong (Aegis air defense destroyers included) can be easily overwhelmed by saturation missile attacks, that's why american aircraft carries don't plan to operate near the chinese coastline anymore. A sophisticated fleet such the US Navy has, can operate their ships weapon systems together as a network (a large air defense Aegis network for the whole task force), that improves their chances, but we are talking the US Navy, Vietnam is not able to do anything like that anytime soon, the money is not there.

Vietnam follows the strategy of "Anti access / Area denial" (same as the chinese strategy against the US).
That means to deny a chinese fleet the ability to operate close to the Vietnamese coastline and islands or to make it very risky to do so because of the combined effect of anti ship coastal missile batteries (Yakhon and Bal-E), the Vietnamese air force, Vietnamese submarines and small, fast ships doing hit and run attacks that operate from Vietnamese bases in the mainland.

For antisubmarine warfare (ASW) in order to keep the Vietnamese littoral waters clear of chinese submarines as well as to protect the Vietnamese naval bases from enemy submarines, VN will operate corvette / frigate size ships that have a ASW package (none at the moment, this is a big issue until the second batch of the Gepard ships come) and also in the future it will rely on aircraft for maritime patrol and ASW warfare such as the P-3C Orion, etc and ASW helicopters operating directly from the mainland.

There are many gaps at the moment because of insufficient money that need to be covered before VN can think about destroyers.

That's all that Vietnam can do at the moment, any more than that is not realistic at the moment and the Vietnamese budget can't support it anyway. Have to go in steps.

AIP submarines are nice (and much more expensive), maybe it will be ok in the future, but lets not get distracted now, need to be realistic. AIP is only useful for extra range while submerged, that's important for Australia (they are far), but not for Vietnam, VN will operate the kilos not far from the Vietnamese coast for the most part, AIP is not important for Vietnam. Maybe in the future VN will be able to develop small littoral AIP subs based on that domestic design that is being tested now, but that will take time. Full size AIP subs are a very big project, VN is not able to do something like that any time soon, they have to be bought and they are not cheap (Soryu Japanese AIP subs are $600-700 million, double the price of a Kilo).

Actually, what Vietnam really needs are the French SMX-26 submarines, small 40 meter, 1000 ton sub designed to operate in shallow waters with a lot of unusual capabilities such as missile air defense, etc. They are the perfect complement to the Kilos and they are half the price of a Kilo. I don't know what VN is waiting to order those, its really a non brainer. Google "SMX-26 submarines" and you'll see what I mean.




Viet said:


> everything can change, so does the doctrine to deal with the enemies.
> 
> In my opinion, Vietnam navy needs bigger warships (destroyers) and more modern subs (AIP). Further the airforce needs more squadrons of advanced fighter jets. At but not least sending more spy sattelites in space as we need pictures from the region.
> 
> 
> nice, that is the bird
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> welcome to the forum
> are you working or studying in VN?

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## ViXuyen

To Spanish guy, you need to stop ruining this thread and turning it into another chit chat discussion thing like do you with the thread on MP. Stick to the present and post only current Viet military hardware photos or official military news. And please do not post rumour/news from some blog/facebook/forums or some guy masquerading as a Viet general on the internet.


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## Carlosa

ViXuyen said:


> To Spanish guy, you need to stop ruining this thread and turning it into another chit chat discussion thing like do you with the thread on MP. Stick to the present and post only current Viet military hardware photos or official military news. And please do not post rumour/news from some blog/facebook/forums or some guy masquerading as a Viet general on the internet.



Wow, thank you for the welcome, I didn't know that you are the boss here and the one that decides what is ok to post or not, who appointed you to that role?

I believe the name of this thread is Vietnam military news and *discussion*, isn't it? But it seems that you are not interested in *discussion. *I see everybody else doing discussion here, so what is your problem?

Its news to me that I ruined the MP thread with my chit chat as you call it, you are the first one that mentions something like that and somehow I get the feeling that you are the one that is off. A forum is not about one person and his ideas, you know? A forum is about diversity of opinions and points of views, I'm not sure you understand that.

You said to stick to the present, I failed to see where I'm not sticking to the present, care to explain in more detail?

I make my own mind, my own opinions and my own analysis about the Vietnamese military balance with China and I spend a lot of time researching things in order to come up with my conclusions and I use input from many sources and I'm not particularly linked or associated to any of them.

It seems that you have issues with someone in Facebook, etc, well, that's your problem, not mine and I'm not interested in getting involved in your issues with them. I have no idea who that internet general that you mentioned is.

Obviously, you don't like my opinions and that's fine, I respect your opinion and if you don't like or agree to something that I post, then feel free to post your opinion or comment, but don't try to set rules for me or censor what I have to say, ok? That being said, If a lot of other people here feel like you and they express that, then I'll be happy to go if I'm not welcome here.

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## Soryu

ViXuyen said:


> Airbus DS discloses new variants, customers for C295 aircraft - IHS Jane's 360


Who's girl in your avatar !?


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## athlon

Soryu said:


> Who's girl in your avatar !?


Mine


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## ViXuyen

Soryu said:


> Who's girl in your avatar !?


 
She's Trịnh Hồng Quế

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## Soryu

athlon said:


> Mine


come Vietnam first, sir ... 


ViXuyen said:


> She's Trịnh Hồng Quế


remember now ...


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Wow, thank you for the welcome, I didn't know that you are the boss here and the one that decides what is ok to post or not, who appointed you to that role?
> 
> I believe the name of this thread is Vietnam military news and *discussion*, isn't it? But it seems that you are not interested in *discussion. *I see everybody else doing discussion here, so what is your problem?
> 
> Its news to me that I ruined the MP thread with my chit chat as you call it, you are the first one that mentions something like that and somehow I get the feeling that you are the one that is off. A forum is not about one person and his ideas, you know? A forum is about diversity of opinions and points of views, I'm not sure you understand that.
> 
> You said to stick to the present, I failed to see where I'm not sticking to the present, care to explain in more detail?
> 
> I make my own mind, my own opinions and my own analysis about the Vietnamese military balance with China and I spend a lot of time researching things in order to come up with my conclusions and I use input from many sources and I'm not particularly linked or associated to any of them.
> 
> It seems that you have issues with someone in Facebook, etc, well, that's your problem, not mine and I'm not interested in getting involved in your issues with them. I have no idea who that internet general that you mentioned is.
> 
> Obviously, you don't like my opinions and that's fine, I respect your opinion and if you don't like or agree to something that I post, then feel free to post your opinion or comment, but don't try to set rules for me or censor what I have to say, ok? That being said, If a lot of other people here feel like you and they express that, then I'll be happy to go if I'm not welcome here.


Pls continue contributing with your assessments.

Personally I appreciate your posts, regardless of I agree or disagree with your points. Different opinions are welcome and allowed.


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## Carlosa

Thank you buddy, that's how a forum is supposed to work. Appreciated.


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## Viet

Vietnam is in advanced negotiation to purchase 10 Nerva mini unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs) from Nexter Robotics. The Nerva can be fitted with a wide variety of sensors, including day/EOIR cameras, and explosive ordnance disposal systems.

source: IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

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## Viet

onboard of the Japanese landing ship JDS Kunisaki

Japan has the strongest navy in the western Pacific. Copying them is not a bad idea. Vietnam has sent several groups of officers to Japan for tactical and weapon conversion training.


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## Genesis

Viet said:


> onboard of the Japanese landing ship JDS Kunisaki
> 
> Japan has the strongest navy in the western Pacific. Copying them is not a bad idea. Vietnam has sent several groups of officers to Japan for tactical and weapon conversion training.



Were you there on the thread where I said Japanese fleet are stripped of offensive capabilities? 
Not sure, if you weren't, you know now. It's more complicated, but basically Japan can't conduct naval battle alone, not effectively anyways.

So if you must disregard China, put South Korea, they have essentially the same navy, but better here and worse there. However they have full capabilities on their warships.


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## Viet

pic with a Kilo 








Genesis said:


> Were you there on the thread where I said Japanese fleet are stripped of *offensive capabilities*?
> Not sure, if you weren't, you know now. It's more complicated, but basically Japan can't conduct naval battle alone, not effectively anyways.
> 
> So if you must disregard China, put South Korea, they have essentially the same navy, but better here and worse there. However they have full capabilities on their warships.


yes, I read your previous post. From what I see is Japan has a very well equipped and financed navy. Perhaps can our japanese friend confirm of what you say. by the way, our Kilo are equipped with land attack missiles.

@Nihonjin1051, it it true that Japanese navy does not possess offensive capabilities (e.i. land attack missiles) and always needs US warships in battles?


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## Aepsilons

@Viet ,

Our forces are purely defensive in nature, but we have the capability to deliver destruction onto our potential enemies. 
We do not depend on US naval protection as we have the 2nd largest number of DDGs in the world , second only to the United States Navy.


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## Genesis

Viet said:


> pic with a Kilo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes, I read your previous post. From what I see is Japan has a very well equipped and financed navy. Perhaps can our japanese friend confirm of what you say. by the way, our Kilo are equipped with land attack missiles.
> 
> @Nihonjin1051, it it true that Japanese navy does not possess offensive capabilities (e.i. land attack missiles) and always needs US warships in battles?



Why would I lie? It's easily researched. Now this is Wikipedia, but considering, the simplicity of my claim this is good enough.


> However, in keeping with the defensive mission of the JMSDF and passive role of the Japan Self-Defense Forces in general, the _Kongō_-class lacks the Tomahawk missile.


Kongō-class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, not only did the Americans strip Japanese ships, they made the Japanese pay for it with cold hard cash. They are like the dude that rapes you and ask you for payment of service. 

Same deal happened to Japanese fighters. 

There's actually a few more features that lacks in Japanese equipments, IE, there battle system lacks a few more things for full effectiveness, I know this because I'm a follower of the Chinese military show that invites Chinese admirals and generals from defense colleges. Despite what you think of them, their actual technical knowledge are excellent, all have been to foreign institutes and seen first hand these ships. You know, one of the privilege of wearing a star.



You Kilos are pretty good.


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## Aepsilons

Genesis said:


> Why would I lie? It's easily researched. Now this is Wikipedia, but considering, the simplicity of my claim this is good enough.
> 
> Kongō-class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Now, not only did the Americans strip Japanese ships, they made the Japanese pay for it with cold hard cash. They are like the dude that rapes you and ask you for payment of service.
> 
> Same deal happened to Japanese fighters.
> 
> There's actually a few more features that lacks in Japanese equipments, IE, there battle system lacks a few more things for full effectiveness, I know this because I'm a follower of the Chinese military show that invites Chinese admirals and generals from defense colleges. Despite what you think of them, their actual technical knowledge are excellent, all have been to foreign institutes and seen first hand these ships. You know, one of the privilege of wearing a star.
> 
> 
> 
> You Kilos are pretty good.



I agree that we do not have Tomahawk cruise missiles. But Japan, as a peaceful nation, does not have a 'First Strike' policy. In actuality, Japan will not engage unless we are fired upon first.

As per the issue of offensive capability, that itself is under development now. Abe Shinzo and the LDP party believe tha it is best to not only reform the SDF, but to also enhance military responsibility and utilize an offensive capability.
It is not like we are unable to do it, it is more so because the Japanese people , particularly in the Diet are sensitive on regards to military offensive changes.

I would hardly blame the Americans. They have been pushing us to adopt more offensive capability , but it has been the Diet (Parliament) that has been slow to change.

You don't have to make vitrious verbiage against the Americans.


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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @Viet ,
> 
> Our forces are purely defensive in nature, but we have the capability to deliver destruction onto our potential enemies.
> We do not depend on US naval protection as we have the 2nd largest number of DDGs in the world , second only to the United States Navy.


That reflects my thought. Japan as island nation has traditionally a strong navy, while Vietnam has the strength in the land forces. Your country can develop desired attack weapons if you want.
Here is an article in the Japan Times (I check for interesting news from time to time) talking over the difference of approaches Vietnam and Japan deal with China.

for example, if a Chinese warship locked its weapons-guiding radar onto a Vietnamese ship, we would have reacted by launching antiship missile pre-emptively. A japanese warship would wait.



> Referring to the incident on Jan. 30, 2013, in which a Chinese naval frigate allegedly locked its weapons-guiding radar onto a Japanese destroyer — an accusation that China’s Defense Ministry brushed off as “groundless” — military affairs journalist Mitsuhiro Sera believes a Vietnamese ship would have reacted by attacking pre-emptively, since “Such an act is akin to a declaration of war,” as Sera puts it.



Vietnam seen as a potential role model for Japan | The Japan Times


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## Genesis

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I agree that we do not have Tomahawk cruise missiles. But Japan, as a peaceful nation, does not have a 'First Strike' policy. In actuality, Japan will not engage unless we are fired upon first.
> 
> As per the issue of offensive capability, that itself is under development now. Abe Shinzo and the LDP party believe tha it is best to not only reform the SDF, but to also enhance military responsibility and utilize an offensive capability.
> It is not like we are unable to do it, it is more so because the Japanese people , particularly in the Diet are sensitive on regards to military offensive changes.
> 
> I would hardly blame the Americans. They have been pushing us to adopt more offensive capability , but it has been the Diet (Parliament) that has been slow to change.
> 
> You don't have to make vitrious verbiage against the Americans.



I got nothing against the Americans, you do work you get paid, but certain things are well.....weird to say the least.

I never said Japan can't have it, I said you don't have it. Also, despite what you may think, knowing how to make a TV and a missile is not quite the same. While Japan is technologically advanced, you experience with missiles of a offensive nature is limited, eventually yes, but immediately, probably not. Abe can do what he wants, but with the countless missiles pointing at our Easter direction, I say he can put Jesus in the VLS and it still won't solve anything.

Fifth Gen fighter is a good if not an entirely accurate comparison. Japan can "field" one, but it's essentially a 4+, after decades of inactivity, you can't just expect to get back to your WW2 days like that. Even Ronaldo gets fat.

Actually you can see the Americans wants to keep Japan what it is, if Japan is self restraint, why did Americans make Filipinos pay for disarming the cutters they sent them? I'm positive, the Filipinos didn't ask for it.


----------



## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> That reflects my thought. Japan as island nation has traditionally a strong navy, while Vietnam has the strength in the land forces.
> Here is an article in the Japan Times (I check for interesting news from time to time) talking over the difference of approaches Vietnam and Japan deal with China.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam seen as a potential role model for Japan | The Japan Times




For us, we have the capability to field a large army (our population is 130 million), however, it would be contrary to our national mandate , which stresses peaceful development with our regional partners. For Vietnam, I can understand the necessity to maintain a large standing army , considering the last 1979 land - based ware you had with the People's Republic of China. And also to project Vietnamese interests in neighboring Cambodia, Laos and possibly Thailand if necessary. 

For us, we don't fear a military invasion of Japan. First of all, we would detect any buildup by either North Korea / other nations in North East Asia. Second, our naval power would sink any foolhardy military adventurism. Thirdly, our Air Force is qualitatively and quantitatively one of the strongest in Asia-Pacific. Fourth, Japanese GSDF would be able to annihilate any so called invasion. And we would , in response to an attack, be free to mount our own offensive. 

But, in a realistic scenario, i don't see any nation foolish enough to attack us. 



Genesis said:


> I got nothing against the Americans, you do work you get paid, but certain things are well.....weird to say the least.
> 
> I never said Japan can't have it, I said you don't have it. Also, despite what you may think, knowing how to make a TV and a missile is not quite the same. While Japan is technologically advanced, you experience with missiles of a offensive nature is limited, eventually yes, but immediately, probably not. Abe can do what he wants, but with the countless missiles pointing at our Easter direction, I say he can put Jesus in the VLS and it still won't solve anything.
> 
> Fifth Gen fighter is a good if not an entirely accurate comparison. Japan can "field" one, but it's essentially a 4+, after decades of inactivity, you can't just expect to get back to your WW2 days like that. Even Ronaldo gets fat.
> 
> Actually you can see the Americans wants to keep Japan what it is, if Japan is self restraint, why did Americans make Filipinos pay for disarming the cutters they sent them? I'm positive, the Filipinos didn't ask for it.




We have SM-3 Block IA ABM, which has the capability to shoot down ballistic missiles into our airspace / ground terrain. We also have RUM-139, and Harpoons on our ships. We have the capability of fitting our ships with cruise missiles (as we have the technology), but we adhere to our 'No-First Strike' Policy, so we do not need it. Besides, why does Japan need offensive capability right now? Its not like we are going to strike any of our neighbors? That would destabilize the region. And is the antithesis of my country's national objective and core beliefs.



Genesis said:


> Actually you can see the Americans wants to keep Japan what it is, if Japan is self restraint, why did Americans make Filipinos pay for disarming the cutters they sent them? I'm positive, the Filipinos didn't ask for it.



They (USA) have been pushing Japanese politicians for decades to increase military responsibility. It has only been recently that Japan has even engaged or conceived a more rotund military / foreign policy. Even now.

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## Viet

Dutch PM’s Mark Rutte visits Vietnam in June 16. Both countries have agreed to increase cooperations in all field including defence. a "Vietnam Day in the Netherlands" event has been scheduled to take place in the Netherlands in 2014.

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## Aepsilons

Very handsome pictures @Viet ! Good to see the military developments of your country and foreign partners.

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## Viet

Senior Lieutenant General Ty visits Commander-in-Chief of the Royal Cambodian Armed Force Pol Saroeun, in Cambodia June 15. More cooperations between military units stationed along the shared border and in training.













Nihonjin1051 said:


> Very handsome pictures @Viet ! Good to see the military developments of your country and foreign partners.


yeah I hope to see concrete results when your FM visits Vietnam.
Vietnam needs to accelerate the naval buildup. I am pretty sure Japan can help us 

Japan’s foreign minister to visit Vietnam on maritime security | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

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## Viet

Italy PM Matteo Renzi visits Hanoi on June 9.

Vietnam as the coordinator of the ASEAN-EU relations will help boosting relations with the EU.

PM Renzi said Italy shares the view with the European Union and leaders of the group of 7 (G7) expressing deep concern about the tensions and calling upon parties concerned to settle the dispute by peaceful measures in accordance with international law.

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## BuddhaPalm

Viet said:


> for example, if a Chinese warship locked its weapons-guiding radar onto a Vietnamese ship, we would have reacted by launching antiship missile pre-emptively. A japanese warship would wait.


   Viets furiously masturbating about third most powerful military in the world after Paracel humiliation


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## tbquestion

Question to Vietnam:

Now that N.Korea has made/copy of the Kh-35 anti-ship missile, do you think they will the missile 's engine technology to Vietnam. I know Russia transfer technology for the Kh-35 to Vietnam without the engine technology. Or maybe, Russia will sell this technology to Vietnam at cheap price.

Now that N.Korea has made/copy of the Kh-35 anti-ship missile, do you think they sell will the missile 's engine technology to Vietnam. I know Russia transfer technology for the Kh-35 to Vietnam without the engine technology. Or maybe, Russia will sell this technology to Vietnam at cheap price


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## Soryu

tbquestion said:


> Question to Vietnam:
> 
> Now that N.Korea has made/copy of the Kh-35 anti-ship missile, do you think they will the missile 's engine technology to Vietnam. I know Russia transfer technology for the Kh-35 to Vietnam without the engine technology. Or maybe, Russia will sell this technology to Vietnam at cheap price.
> 
> Now that N.Korea has made/copy of the Kh-35 anti-ship missile, do you think they sell will the missile 's engine technology to Vietnam. I know Russia transfer technology for the Kh-35 to Vietnam without the engine technology. Or maybe, Russia will sell this technology to Vietnam at cheap price


Maybe, our cooperate with North Korea always in secret lines for most of time ...


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## Viet

Soviet made Su-100 tank destroyer
unbelieveable that the stuff still works today.








tbquestion said:


> Question to Vietnam:
> 
> Now that N.Korea has made/copy of the Kh-35 anti-ship missile, do you think they sell will the missile 's engine technology to Vietnam. I know Russia transfer technology for the Kh-35 to Vietnam without the engine technology. Or maybe, Russia will sell this technology to Vietnam at cheap price


no clue. perhaps from Burma as the article from the diplomat suggests?
Who Sold North Korea a New Anti-Ship Missile? | The Diplomat

VN can produce two variants: Kh-35 with a range of 130km and the advanced version x-35 with 300km.




Vndata: Vietnam starts producing its 300km range anti-ship missile

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## BoXilai

Viet said:


> Soviet made Su-100 tank destroyer
> unbelieveable that the stuff still works today.



I think you can use them in military training only. In modern warfare, Su-100 an T54, T55,... are just mobile coffins. If you want to prepare for a war in future, you must replace them by better weapons as soon as possible.


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## Viet

BoXilai said:


> I think you can use them in military training only. In modern warfare, Su-100 an T54, T55,... are just mobile coffins. If you want to prepare for a war in future, you must replace them by better weapons as soon as possible.


that is true. we need modern main battle tanks. there are reports VN is looking to buy Russian made T-90.
But I think the army should avaluate more alternatives bofore deciding.

For example, recently Vietnam has chosen Israel Galil 31/32 ACE assault rifles over Russian AK-100 models. Tanks other countries such as Israel´s *Merkava *or German´s *Leopard *are very good choices, too.


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## Muslimdaughter

The TT400TP was produced to undertake four missions: wipe out all enemy battleships, protect army bases of landing crafts, protect civilian vessels, and for patrolling purposes.


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## Viet

DHC-6 patrol plane *Air Brigade 954 *established in Cam Ranh bay










bunkers somewhere in the SC Sea





deploying of heavy artillery

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> that is true. we need modern main battle tanks. there are reports VN is looking to buy Russian made T-90.
> But I think the army should avaluate more alternatives bofore deciding.
> 
> For example, recently Vietnam has chosen Israel Galil 31/32 ACE assault rifles over Russian AK-100 models. Tanks other countries such as Israel´s *Merkava *or German´s *Leopard *are very good choices, too.



One issue with the Merkava and Leopard is that they are a bit too heavy for many of the Vietnamese roads. The Merkava at 65 tons and the Leopard ll at 62 tons is significantly more than the T-90 at 47 tons. Also, much of the terrain in North Vietnam and southern China is mountain, hilly terrain which is difficult for heavy tanks. The T-90 is a good choice for Vietnam, but Vietnam also needs a light tank that is designed for that type of terrain. The Chinese recently developed a light tank adapted to mountain terrain because of the same reasons.

The Merkava and the Leopard ll are also significantly more expensive than the T-90.

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## Viet

the Cam Ranh port is now ready for the all foreign warships. the first: Russia 
Money can flow.



World
June 17, 15:33 UTC+4
itar-tass

_The visit to Cam Ranh is the last foreign stopover for the Pacific Fleet convoy on the way back home.





Big anti-submarine ship Marshal Shaposhnikov
© ITAR-TASS/Yury Smityuk

Gallery
14 photo



Russia's Pacific fleet in photos _

CAM RANH, June 17. /ITAR-TASS/. *Russia’s Pacific Fleet convoy*, which was on a combat mission in the Indian Ocean, arrived at the naval base Cam Ranh in the central Vietnamese province of Khanh Hoa on Tuesday.

The mission of the naval convoy, including big anti-submarine ship Marshal Shaposhnikov, middle-sized sea-going tanker Irkut and rescue vessel Alatau is to build up naval cooperation with Vietnam, replenish food, drinking water stocks and to provide for leisure of sailors.

The visit agenda of Russian naval sailors in Cam Ranh envisages meetings with the leadership of the province and the command of the 4th naval district of the *Vietnamese People’s Army*. Russian naval sailors will have a volleyball friendly match with a team from the 4th Vietnamese naval district.

The visit to Cam Ranh, where a logistic base of the Pacific Fleet, the largest Russian foreign naval base, had been located for 23 years before May 2002, became the last foreign stopover for the Pacific Fleet convoy on the way back home.

Since mid-March, the convoy under the flag of Assistant Commander of Primorsky multi-service force Rear Admiral Vladimir Dmitriyev participated in an international anti-piracy mission off Somalia’s coast in the Gulf of Aden. Earlier, Pacific naval forces represented Russia at large-scale Komodo multilateral exercises to eliminate aftermaths of natural disasters which were held off Indonesian coast.

The return of warships to a permanent base at the Russian Far Eastern port of Vladivostok is planned for early July.


ITAR-TASS: World - Russia Pacific Fleet convoy calls at Vietnam military port Cam Ranh


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> One issue with the Merkava and Leopard is that they are a bit too heavy for many of the Vietnamese roads. The Merkava at 65 tons and the Leopard ll at 62 tons is significantly more than the T-90 at 47 tons. Also, much of the terrain in North Vietnam and southern China is mountain, hilly terrain which is difficult for heavy tanks. The T-90 is a good choice for Vietnam, but Vietnam also needs a light tank that is designed for that type of terrain. The Chinese recently developed a light tank adapted to mountain terrain because of the same reasons.
> 
> The Merkava and the Leopard ll are also significantly more expensive than the T-90.


you are right. Merkava and Leopard are too much heavy for our infrastructure, more than our roads and bridges can absorb.

it will be a nice if Russia gives us the technology and let the tanks to be produced in VN. We need a lot of tanks, some 1,000 pieces to replace the current inventory. the new tanks should not be able to operate in Vietnam terrain, but other potential countries terrain as well: China, Laos, Cambodia and Thailand.

there is speculation that VN army has received some T-90s for testing.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you are right. Merkava and Leopard are too much heavy for our infrastructure, more than our roads and bridges can absorb.
> 
> it will be a nice if Russia gives us the technology and let the tanks to be produced in VN. We need a lot of tanks, some 1,000 pieces to replace the current inventory. the new tanks should not be able to operate in Vietnam terrain, but other potential countries terrain as well: China, Laos, Cambodia and Thailand.
> 
> there is speculation that VN army has received some T-90s for testing.



According to some people the T-90 is already deployed in Vietnam, but of course there is not going to be any official confirmation as usual. I don't know what version it is, T-90 A, AS or MS. I hope they have a good air conditioning system, India is having a lot of problems with that.

Getting technology transfers from Russia to produce the T-90 would be nice, but I suspect that it might have to involve a big number of tanks and that might be an issue for Vietnam to have to make a big financial commitment like that. I think Vietnam will just order small batches here and there and also continue upgrading the T-54 / 55 as it is already doing. Regrettably, there are so many areas where big money needs to be spent, but there is only so much dong.

Laos and Cambodia have very bad infrastructure, a light tank would do better there for the most part. On the other hand, Thailand have a very good road system, so no problem for the T-90 there, ha ha.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> One issue with the Merkava and Leopard is that they are a bit too heavy for many of the Vietnamese roads. The Merkava at 65 tons and the Leopard ll at 62 tons is significantly more than the T-90 at 47 tons. Also, much of the terrain in North Vietnam and southern China is mountain, hilly terrain which is difficult for heavy tanks. The T-90 is a good choice for Vietnam, but Vietnam also needs a light tank that is designed for that type of terrain. The Chinese recently developed a light tank adapted to mountain terrain because of the same reasons.
> 
> The Merkava and the Leopard ll are also significantly more expensive than the T-90.



Second hand Merkava MkIII and Leopard 2 is much-much-much more cheaper than T-90, and Merkava Mk IV is not that expensive my friend who worked for Indonesian army think-thank has been revealed their price is comparable to T-90, including ILS, training support and everything you need to make those Merkava working within 6 years after sales.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Second hand Merkava MkIII and Leopard 2 is much-much-much more cheaper than T-90, and Merkava Mk IV is not that expensive my friend who worked for Indonesian army think-thank has been revealed their price is comparable to T-90, including ILS, training support and everything you need to make those Merkava working within 6 years after sales.



You are right, second hand tanks would be a good alternative if they are available, but I think the weight would be a big issue for Vietnam.

What's the ongoing price for a second hand Leopard ll by the way? Is Germany still selling them?


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> you are right. Merkava and Leopard are too much heavy for our infrastructure, more than our roads and bridges can absorb.
> 
> it will be a nice if Russia gives us the technology and let the tanks to be produced in VN. We need a lot of tanks, some 1,000 pieces to replace the current inventory. * the new tanks should not be able to operate in Vietnam terrain, but other potential countries terrain as well: China, Laos, Cambodia and Thailand*.
> 
> there is speculation that VN army has received some T-90s for testing.



Do you plan of invading these countries? With only 1000 tanks?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> it will be a nice if Russia gives us the technology and let the tanks to be produced in VN..



I think Vietnam has the capability to design (and copy or adapt existing designs) and produce much more than what is currently doing and considering that it can produce very cheaply, it would be a nice bonus for the defense budget also. Many countries produce APC's and once the production effort starts, it gradually evolves into more complex equipment such as light tanks, etc and also once that the industrial capability and factories are in place, it becomes much easier to license produce the advance equipment such as main battle tanks, etc.

I think Indonesia is a good example of that, they are very aggressive when it comes to license production as well as developing local designs and I think that will pay off really well for them. I would say that Indonesia is the dark horse in the region, give them a few more years and if the economy continues to progress well, they'll develop some nice military capabilities and they need to anyway, China is claiming some of their territorial waters in the Natuna sea, so they have a challenge there.

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## Carlosa

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Do you plan of invading these countries? With only 1000 tanks?



No plan to invade anybody, they are all friendly countries, there is only one country in the region that is into invading and imperialistic expansion, but if we are going to consider what it would take:

1000 tanks is more than enough for that.
100 tanks would be enough to take care of Laos.
200 or 300 tanks would be enough to take care of Cambodia.
Thailand? No worries, as soon as they see the Viet flag, they'll run in the opposite direction as fast as they can, Thais don't have stomach for fighting.
China? RPG-29 is more than enough to take care of all their tanks including the type 99.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Carlosa said:


> No plan to invade anybody, they are all friendly countries, there is only one country in the region that is into invading and imperialistic expansion, but if we are going to consider what it would take:
> 
> 1000 tanks is more than enough for that.
> 100 tanks would be enough to take care of Laos.
> 200 or 300 tanks would be enough to take care of Cambodia.
> Thailand? No worries, as soon as they see the Viet flag, they'll run in the opposite direction as fast as they can, Thais don't have stomach for fighting.
> China? RPG-29 is more than enough to take care of all their tanks including the type 99.



So you will invade China with no tanks, just rpgs?


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## Viet

In training:

High-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds for the 2A46M 125mm gun...and as everybody knows T-90 has 125mm main gun

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## Carlosa

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> So you will invade China with no tanks, just rpgs?



Nobody plans to invade china, china will do the invading and in that case the RPG-29 is enough to take care of their tanks.

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## Viet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Do you plan of invading these countries? With only 1000 tanks?


No, unless we are forced to do so. We are brave but not dumb.

Tank is an offensive weapon. We can assume chinese tanks won´t stop at Sino-Viet border and vice versa, in case a war breaks out. I suggest you to read Vietnamese incursions into China to stop artillery fires from the PLA in the last war of 1979.

We need advanced tanks that can operate in potential theaters.

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## hurt

Viet said:


> In training:
> 
> High-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) rounds for the 2A46M 125mm gun...and as everybody knows T-90 has 125mm main gun


maybe T-55M6


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## Viet

unlikely
the upgraded version of T-55 is called T-55M3 and has a Israel-made 105mm gun.

Vietnamese armed forces modernize its fleet of main battle tanks T-55 to standard T 54/55M3 2503124Â -Â Army Recognition


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> unlikely
> the upgraded version of T-55 is called T-55M3 and has a Israel-made 105mm gun.



That munition can only be for a T-90 or T-72, but VN does not operate T-72 so............


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## Viet

Navy

a Molniya corvette with Kh-35E (Uran) antiship missiles, range of 130km.
next vessels will carry the advanced version with extended range of 260km.

1 or 2 of this Uran can sink an enemy vessel of up to 5,000 tons.

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## tbquestion

Carlosa said:


> No plan to invade anybody, they are all friendly countries, there is only one country in the region that is into invading and imperialistic expansion, but if we are going to consider what it would take:
> 
> 1000 tanks is more than enough for that.
> 100 tanks would be enough to take care of Laos.
> 200 or 300 tanks would be enough to take care of Cambodia.
> Thailand? No worries, as soon as they see the Viet flag, they'll run in the opposite direction as fast as they can, Thais don't have stomach for fighting.
> China? RPG-29 is more than enough to take care of all their tanks including the type 99.


T-72 could'nt damage a type 99 at point blank firing during test, but a RPG-29 could????


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## Carlosa

tbquestion said:


> T-72 could'nt damage a type 99 at point blank firing during test, but a RPG-29 could????



Correct, according to the testing done with the dual tandem warhead of the RPG-29, most shots destroyed all tanks tested including the T-90.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> You are right, second hand tanks would be a good alternative if they are available, but I think the weight would be a big issue for Vietnam.
> 
> What's the ongoing price for a second hand Leopard ll by the way? Is Germany still selling them?



still, recently they selling their inventory stock with upgrade package such as Revolution and Evolution. Spain and Switzerlands too, they are looking for potential customer for their old Leo 2A4 vanilla versions. Israel too, they are wanna to sell their advanced weapons for cash amid recent backlash in economic situation in Israel right now.

one thing must be noted, if Vietnam suddenly procure an advance MBT such as Leo2 or Merkava i think they will doing great in urban warfare or to halting the advance of enemy armored columns and supporting infantry units around them. And such operations doesn't need extensive supporting unit for their movement in rural areas of Vietnam. They will do great to holding positions or lines until reinforcement came. The ongoing price is vary according to upgrading specification do you want, but vanilla version is around 600.000 US dollar to 800.000 US dollar, Revo variant is around 2,4 millions bucks to 3,2 millions bucks. 

It must be great if Vietnam follow the India steps to procure at least two type of advanced MBT (Arjun and T-90 Bhisma) with different characteristics to cope any potential scenario in warfare.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Correct, according to the testing done with the dual tandem warhead of the RPG-29, most shots destroyed all tanks tested including the T-90.


2 warheads in a grenade?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> 2 warheads in a grenade?



Correct, the first warhead destroys the outer layer of the armor, the "ERA" explosive reactive armor, that opens the way to the second warhead which is the one that penetrates into the tank. Lethal combination, all tanks tested were destroyed. Some of the tanks tested are the T-90, T-72, T-80, M-1 Abrams, etc.

The RPG-29 was also tested against tanks together with the Kornet Russian antitank missile (which has a pretty good reputation) and sure enough, the RPG-29 was the winner. The Kornet could not penetrate some tanks, but the RPG-29 did its job with flying colors every time.

A British Challenger ll tank was penetrated in Iraq by a RPG-29 munition (see the picture below).

In May 2008 The New York Times disclosed that an American M-1A1 Abrams tank had been penetrated by an RPG-29 in Iraq. The US Army ranks the RPG-29 threat to armor so high that they refused to allow the newly formed Iraqi army to buy it, fearing it would fall into insurgent hands.

That's why I said, Chinese tanks type-99 / 89, etc, no problem, bring them on, Vietnamese infantrymen with RPG-29's will ambush them and send them to the recycling center for junk metal.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> still, recently they selling their inventory stock with upgrade package such as Revolution and Evolution. Spain and Switzerlands too, they are looking for potential customer for their old Leo 2A4 vanilla versions. Israel too, they are wanna to sell their advanced weapons for cash amid recent backlash in economic situation in Israel right now.
> 
> one thing must be noted, if Vietnam suddenly procure an advance MBT such as Leo2 or Merkava i think they will doing great in urban warfare or to halting the advance of enemy armored columns and supporting infantry units around them. And such operations doesn't need extensive supporting unit for their movement in rural areas of Vietnam. They will do great to holding positions or lines until reinforcement came. The ongoing price is vary according to upgrading specification do you want, but vanilla version is around 600.000 US dollar to 800.000 US dollar, Revo variant is around 2,4 millions bucks to 3,2 millions bucks.
> 
> It must be great if Vietnam follow the India steps to procure at least two type of advanced MBT (Arjun and T-90 Bhisma) with different characteristics to cope any potential scenario in warfare.



Nice information, thank you. Leopard ll tanks at $600.000 to $800.000 is a bargain, Vietnam spent $935.00 to upgrade each of the T-54 / 55 to the M3 standard. Some food for thought here.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Correct, the first warhead destroys the outer layer of the armor, the "ERA" explosive reactive armor, that opens the way to the second warhead which is the one that penetrates into the tank. Lethal combination, all tanks tested were destroyed. Some of the tanks tested are the T-90, T-72, T-80, M-1 Abrams, etc.
> 
> The RPG-29 was also tested against tanks together with the Kornet Russian antitank missile (which has a pretty good reputation) and sure enough, the RPG-29 was the winner. The Kornet could not penetrate some tanks, but the RPG-29 did its job with flying colors every time.
> 
> That's why I said, Chinese tanks type-99 / 89, etc, no problem, bring them on, Vietnamese infantrymen with RPG-29's will send them to the recycling center for junk metal.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 35759


just found a pic: a infantryman with (Vietnam-made) RPG-29








madokafc said:


> still, recently they selling their inventory stock with upgrade package such as Revolution and Evolution. Spain and Switzerlands too, they are looking for potential customer for their old Leo 2A4 vanilla versions. Israel too, they are wanna to sell their advanced weapons for cash amid recent backlash in economic situation in Israel right now.
> 
> one thing must be noted, if Vietnam suddenly procure an advance MBT such as Leo2 or Merkava i think they will doing great in urban warfare or to halting the advance of enemy armored columns and supporting infantry units around them. And such operations doesn't need extensive supporting unit for their movement in rural areas of Vietnam. They will do great to holding positions or lines until reinforcement came. The ongoing price is vary according to upgrading specification do you want, but vanilla version is around 600.000 US dollar to 800.000 US dollar, Revo variant is around 2,4 millions bucks to 3,2 millions bucks.
> 
> It must be great if Vietnam follow the India steps to procure at least two type of advanced MBT (Arjun and T-90 Bhisma) with different characteristics to cope any potential scenario in warfare.


the 1-billion dollar question is if Russia is willing to provide technology of producing T-90 tank to Vietnam?
I am pretty sure Chinese will do everything they can to sabotage the move.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the 1-billion dollar question is if Russia is willing to provide technology of producing T-90 tank to Vietnam?
> I am pretty sure Chinese will do everything they can to sabotage the move.



I really don't know. That type of deal depends on serious money / tank numbers I would imagine and now Russia does military sales pretty much as a commercial business. I don't know how much influence the Chinese have with Russia these days. The fact that Russia didn't do any official statement about the oil rig is already a bad sign and at the same time Russia knows that China is a rival, but I would suspect that Russia will not compromise its arm sales with Vietnam and after all, they want to use the Cam Ranh base.

Have to also consider, did Vietnam ask for the T-90 license production and tech transfer? I didn't hear any rumor about that, have you?

I added more pics and info to my post about the RPG-29 by the way.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I really don't know. That type of deal depends on serious money / tank numbers I would imagine and now Russia does military sales pretty much as a commercial business. I don't know how much influence the Chinese have with Russia these days. The fact that Russia didn't do any official statement about the oil rig is already a bad sign and at the same time Russia knows that China is a rival, but I would suspect that Russia will not compromise its arm sales with Vietnam and after all, they want to use the Cam Ranh base.
> 
> Have to also consider, did Vietnam ask for the T-90 license production and tech transfer? I didn't hear any rumor about that, have you?
> 
> I added more pics and info to my post about the RPG-29 by the way.


No, I have a little info just VN army looks to purchase T-90.
About the question whether we can afford the cost, let make some equations.

Assume Russia transfers the technology and VN produces the tanks for $2m a piece including weapons.
1,000 tanks would cost $2b including weapons.

According to latest data, VN economy generates $2b current account surplus per month.
So that should not be a problem to finance the deal.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> No, I have a little info just VN army looks to purchase T-90.
> About the question whether we can afford the cost, let make some equations.
> 
> Assume Russia transfers the technology and VN produces the tanks for $2m a piece including weapons.
> 1,000 tanks would cost $2b including weapons.
> 
> According to latest data, VN economy generates $2b current account surplus per month.
> So that should not be a problem to finance the deal.



That would be nice. $2 million a piece its quite cheap. The price new I hear that is about 4 to 4.5 million. There is also a license fee and all the key components, engine, etc have to be imported anyway, so I'm not sure about that price, but anyway, the advantages of license production are very significant for the future and gradually VN can produce more and more of the components.

If that $2 billion a month surplus is actually available to be spent for defense, then VN better get going with ordering more jets, ships, subs, ballistic missiles, S-400's, coastal missile batteries, ships for the coast guard, etc because the northern bully is knocking at the door......

Actually, the army also has quite a long shopping list too, many APC's and IFV's need to be replaced, PT-76 need to be upgraded or replaced, more helicopters, etc.

The marines need more LST's and support vehicles, etc. 
AWACS, Maritime / ASW patrol planes, etc.

Need to use some of that surplus for the next few years I think. Actually, if VN can afford to spend an extra 3 or 4 billion a year, that would already make a big difference and in just 4 or 5 years VN would be in a much better position to defend itself.

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## Viet

Vietnam and the Netherlands have signed several agreements during the visit of the Netherlands Prime Minister to Hanoi. Among them, Damen Vietnam shipyards will build not only the SIGMA class corvettes but bigger warships as frigates as option for the near future.

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## Viet

a Su-30MK2 dropping unguided bombs

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## tbquestion

Carlosa said:


> Correct, according to the testing done with the dual tandem warhead of the RPG-29, most shots destroyed all tanks tested including the T-90.


Where 's your source?!?
Here's mine.
Google rpg-29 and t-90. wikipedia shows that a t-90 withstand 7 rpg-


Viet said:


> just found a pic: a infantryman with (Vietnam-made) RPG-29
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the 1-billion dollar question is if Russia is willing to provide technology of producing T-90 tank to Vietnam?
> I am pretty sure Chinese will do everything they can to sabotage the move.


India has to buy at least 310 t-90 before technology transfer was offered. India is currently upgrading their t-90 as the thermal imaging of the russian tank is not suitable for hot weather.

source defensenewscom:
India contracted to acquire 310 T-90s from Russia in 2001, 190 of which were license-produced at the Avadi-based, state-owned ordnance factory. Another contract was signed in 2007 for the licensed production of 330 tanks. The lack of an air conditioning system in these tanks caused damage to their thermal imaging systems when operating in hot climates, an Army official said

Recently, Ukranian rebels suffered heavy casualty against govt 's tanks, even when they were able to destroy one tank out of twenty. In order to be effective, RPG has to be in certain distance/ position and there are countermeasure against them when they are detected, such as snipers,mortar, artillery etc. Thats why rpg can never replace tanks.


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## tbquestion

tbquestion said:


> Where 's your source?!?
> Here's mine.
> Google rpg-29 and t-90. wikipedia shows that a t-90 withstand 7 rpg-
> 
> India has to buy at least 310 t-90 before technology transfer was offered. India is currently upgrading their t-90 as the thermal imaging of the russian tank is not suitable for hot weather.
> 
> source defensenewscom:
> India contracted to acquire 310 T-90s from Russia in 2001, 190 of which were license-produced at the Avadi-based, state-owned ordnance factory. Another contract was signed in 2007 for the licensed production of 330 tanks. The lack of an air conditioning system in these tanks caused damage to their thermal imaging systems when operating in hot climates, an Army official said
> 
> Recently, Ukranian rebels suffered heavy casualty against govt 's tanks, even when they were able to destroy one tank out of twenty. In order to be effective, RPG has to be in certain distance/ position and there are countermeasure against them when they are detected, such as snipers,mortar, artillery etc. Thats why rpg can never replace tanks.



httpwwwdefensenewscom/article/20140310/DEFREG03/303100026/Indian-Army-Upgrade-T-90-Tanks-Domestic-Help

It seems from reading the article that the T-90 wasn't design with hot weather in mind (thermal imaging damage) and even with technlogy transfer agreement b/t India and Russia, Russia is still holding back key designs. Vietnam can attest to that with Kh-35 missile technology transfer deal. 

So in additional to buying the T-90, Vietnam will have to spend money installing AC for the tanks. Russia is truly a capitalist beast.


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## Carlosa

tbquestion said:


> Where 's your source?!?
> Here's mine.
> Google rpg-29 and t-90. wikipedia shows that a t-90 withstand 7 rpg-.



*Here is the info, the T-90 was tested against RPG-29, antitank missiles and APFSDS tank munition. 5 shots in each case. The RPG-29 was the only weapon able to penetrate the T-90, 3 times out of 5 shots. Quite remarkable.*

2*0.10.1999 T-80U and T-90 Protection Trials* 
On October 20, 1999 extensive trials of T-80U and T-90 protection from various types of threats were conducted at *TsNIIO 643a*Testing Grounds. The tests involved firing large amounts of ordnance (including several versions of RPG ATGL, light and heavy ATGMs, and APFSDS rounds) at frontal projections of T-80U and T-90 MBTs both protected with Kontakt-V ERA and stripped of it.

T-80U and T-90 MBTs were represented by 3 vehicles each, one with Kontakt-V ERA, one with removed explosive packages and one reserve vehicle. For the ERA part of trials, knocked-out ERA packages were replaced after each shot.

One more T-80U MBT was used for special trials that focused on testing of Shtora-1 EOCMDAS.

The following weapons were used:


Infantry ATGLs (fired at a distance of 40m)
RPG-7 (using advanced 105mm grenade PG-7VR with a tandem warhead, pen. 650mm RHA)
RPG-26 (disposable launcher, pen. >500mm RHA)
RPG-29 (advanced 105mm launcher, pen. 750mm RHA)

ATGMs (fired at a distance of 600m)
Malyutka-2 (pen. >600mm RHA)
Metis (pen. 460mm RHA)
Konkurs (pen. 650mm RHA)
Kornet (pen. >850mm RHA)

APFSDS (fired from T-80U MBT at a distance of 1,500m, the most likely round is 3BM42)
Each weapon was fired 5 times at each target, for a total of 20 shots per weapon. The total number of shots fired during the trials thus exceeded 150.
The trials yielded the following outcome:


ATGLs
T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations. 
No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.
T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA. 
Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.

ATGMs
T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.
T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target. 
No other ATGMs could penetrate.

APFSDS
T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence. 
Without ERA, one round penetrated.
T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.

The following pictures show the locations of impacts by ATGL RPG-29 (in red) and ATGM Kornet (in black) against ERA-equipped vehicles. Which of these hits penetrated was not disclosed.













Shtora-1 Trials
10 Kornet ATGMs with removed warheads were fired at a tank with a crew. 4 ATGMs hit the tank, the other 6 deviated to the left of the target in the middle of the flight.



Conclusions (*VF*)

RPG-29 proved to be by far the most potent weapon among those used. As powerful as heavy ATGM Kornet, it appeared to assure the frontal penetration of T-80U even for the squad-level firepower. Even though T-90 fared better, it is still not immune to it. Considering sufficient proliferation of this weapon and the fact that this is still a fairly light infantry weapon, it is the most dangerous adversary of modern Russian MBTs, and is a very disturbing development.
Original reports that ATGM Kornet performance is severely degraded by ERA due to its peculiar order of internal components proved true as the ATGM with at least 100mm higher penetrating potential was not superior to a much lighter RPG-29.
Report of Shtora-1 EOCMDAS trials is confusing. Being laser-guided, ATGM Kornet should not suffer any interference from Shtora as it only affects IR SACLOS ATGMs. Furthermore, ATGMs can only deviate to the left if the marker is set to the left of both emitters, which is hardly likely. It is possible, however unlikely, that it was caused by a sloppy work of removal the warhead which e.g. could cause a gyro cofusion.

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## William Hung

ViXuyen said:


> To Spanish guy, you need to stop ruining this thread and turning it into another chit chat discussion thing like do you with the thread on MP. Stick to the present and post only current Viet military hardware photos or official military news. And please do not post rumour/news from some blog/facebook/forums or some guy masquerading as a Viet general on the internet.



The Viet military photo thread on MP. net is hilarious lol. The contrast between the Viet and PLA photo thread is so big. In the PLA thread there are constant photos of new commissioned ship, planes, new prototype gears etc. In the Viet thread there are hardly anything new, just a bunch of old ships, small arms and the silly food that your soldiers eat. 

The funniest thing is that half of the thread are chats made by a bunch of viet kids pretending to be somebody else (one pretend to be Spanish, one pretend to be German, one has a fake Aussie flag and the other pretend that he is a special agent insider lol). All they do is chit chat dreaming what weapons their country should have lol. It's like a bunch of little kids asking each other what would you buy if you won 1million dollar?

This thread is becoming like that. I come here to check what new toys VN military have but I only see pages of chit chat dreaming lol. I'm disappointed.


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## Nike

Black Flag said:


> The Viet military photo thread on MP. net is hilarious lol. The contrast between the Viet and PLA photo thread is so big. In the PLA thread there are constant photos of new commissioned ship, planes, new prototype gears etc. In the Viet thread there are hardly anything new, just a bunch of old ships, small arms and the silly food that your soldiers eat.
> 
> The funniest thing is that half of the thread are chats made by a bunch of viet kids pretending to be somebody else (one pretend to be Spanish, one pretend to be German, one has a fake Aussie flag and the other pretend that he is a special agent insider lol). All they do is chit chat dreaming what weapons their country should have lol. It's like a bunch of little kids asking each other what would you buy if you won 1million dollar?
> 
> This thread is becoming like that. I come here to check what new toys VN military have but I only see pages of chit chat dreaming lol. I'm disappointed.



If you disappointed you can leave this thread and no need to leave that trash like comment

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## William Hung

madokafc said:


> If you disappointed you can leave this thread and no need to leave that trash like comment



Go read the Viet photo thread on MP. net for yourself. Other smaller military like the Thai army, Malaysia, Chile army or whatever they don't always have new hardware or photos to post but at least their people don't go in posting chit chat on a PHOTO thread and pretending to be some white people.

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## Nike

Can you see the title of this thread? Vietnam Military News and Discussion. Discussion itself means chit-chat, what is wrong with that? And it is not Mp.net, we are in def.pk.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Go read the Viet photo thread on MP. net for yourself. Other smaller military like the Thai army, Malaysia, Chile army or whatever they don't always have new hardware or photos to post but at least their people don't go in posting chit chat on a PHOTO thread and pretending to be some white people.



I wonder how did you get to the conclusion that I'm not Spanish, care to explain?


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I wonder how did you get to the conclusion that I'm not Spanish, care to explain?



I've been a member of MP for a long time now and it's obvious. Those fake German and Aussie guy, they never post in any thread related to their country, only about VN. And they're really passionate about it. 

You usually make an effort to address VN as an outsider (calling it "your" country or "your" army when chatting with them, or saying "Vietnam" instead of "us" or "we" etc) but once you made a slip up and said "our" soldiers when posting some pictures lol.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I've been a member of MP for a long time now and it's obvious. Those fake German and Aussie guy, they never post in any thread related to their country, only about VN. And they're really passionate about it.
> 
> You usually make an effort to address VN as an outsider (calling it "your" country or "your" army when chatting with them, or saying "Vietnam" instead of "us" or "we" etc) but once you made a slip up and said "our" soldiers when posting some pictures lol.



Sorry to disappoint you man, but I'm 100% Spanish. Yes, you are correct, I often identify with Vietnamese people enough, and I'm also living in Vietnam by the way, so that sometimes I can say "our", etc, but its just because of that.
What would be the point of pretending that I'm not Vietnamese and faking a nationality? I fail to see any good reason.

The other people that you mentioned, such as "Viet", what are they faking? He is a Vietnamese living in Germany according to his flags, what's unusual about that? There are many overseas chinese in the forum also, particularly in USA, is that fake too? What would be the advantage of faking it?

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Sorry to disappoint you man, but I'm 100% Spanish. Yes, you are correct, I often identify with Vietnamese people enough, and I'm also living in Vietnam by the way, so that sometimes I can say "our", etc, but its just because of that.
> What would be the point of pretending that I'm not Vietnamese and faking a nationality? I fail to see any good reason.
> 
> The other people that you mentioned, such as "Viet", what are they faking? He is a Vietnamese living in Germany according to his flags, what's unusual about that? There are many overseas chinese in the forum also, particularly in USA, is that fake too? What would be the advantage of faking it?



Nah you try really hard to identify yourself as a non-viet and only one or two time you said "we" or "our". It's obvious you forgot to put on the Spanish identity. 

I'm talking about the fake German and Aussie on MP, not here. As for why they would do it, you ask them. It's also obvious guys know each other outside MP. 

BTW, I'm actually Spanish. My father is from Atletico and my mother is from Real Madrid.


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## Danny2014

I am a Vietnamese living in California USA. So I guess I must be considered a Vietnamese pretending to be a "Fake White American Guy".

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## Danny2014

Black Flag said:


> Nah you try really hard to identify yourself as a non-viet and only one or two time you said "we" or "our". It's obvious you forgot to put on the Spanish identity.
> 
> I'm talking about the fake German and Aussie on MP, not here. As for why they would do it, you ask them. It's also obvious guys know each other outside MP.
> 
> BTW, I'm actually Spanish. My father is from Atletico and my mother is from Real Madrid.



Yes, you a Chinese guy (PLA) pretending to be a Spanish guy.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Nah you try really hard to identify yourself as a non-viet and only one or two time you said "we" or "our". It's obvious you forgot to put on the Spanish identity.
> 
> I'm talking about the fake German and Aussie on MP, not here. As for why they would do it, you ask them. It's also obvious guys know each other outside MP.
> 
> BTW, I'm actually Spanish. My father is from Atletico and my mother is from Real Madrid.



Ok, doesn't matter, whether you believe it or not, it doesn't change the reality of what it actually is. No, I don't know anybody at the MP thread outside of the forum and I actually don't know who the fake german and aussie people are (I can think of one that mentioned once that he did his military service in Germany, maybe that's the one that you are talking about, I'm not sure).

You take many things as obvious, but that's only in your mind, but again, your thinking does not actually change reality, so suit yourself as much as you want.



Danny2014 said:


> I am a Vietnamese living in California USA. So I guess I must be considered a Vietnamese pretending to be a "Fake White American Guy".



Not long ago I was also living in California, USA. Wow, now it gets complicated, am I american, spanish or vietnamese?

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Nah you try really hard to identify yourself as a non-viet and only one or two time you said "we" or "our". It's obvious you forgot to put on the Spanish identity.
> 
> I'm talking about the fake German and Aussie on MP, not here. As for why they would do it, you ask them. It's also obvious guys know each other outside MP.
> 
> BTW, I'm actually Spanish. My father is from Atletico and my mother is from Real Madrid.


yes, I am a non-Viet pretending to be fake German.
in reality I am Darth Vader and have the power to destroy the planet earth.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yes, I am a non-Viet pretending to be fake German.
> in reality I am Darth Vader and have the power to destroy the planet earth.



Please Master Vadar, don't destroy the planet, just settle for destroying China, the rest of the planet will appreciate you for getting rid of the plague.

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## Soryu

Black Flag said:


> Nah you try really hard to identify yourself as a non-viet and only one or two time you said "we" or "our". It's obvious you forgot to put on the Spanish identity.
> 
> I'm talking about the fake German and Aussie on MP, not here. As for why they would do it, you ask them. It's also obvious guys know each other outside MP.
> 
> BTW, I'm actually Spanish. My father is from Atletico and my mother is from Real Madrid.


you can get lost, chicom, nobody care about you if you leave ...

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## William Hung

Danny2014 said:


> Yes, you a Chinese guy (PLA) pretending to be a Spanish guy.



Sorry to disappoint you man, but I'm 100% Spanish. And I appreciate that you've joined PDF just to repond to one specific post. Are you from MP too "Danny"? 

Btw, it's funny that you called me a PLA guy. I've made one of the most negative assessment of the PLA's performance in 1979 here on PDF. I've used facts and arguments that you guys don't even know of. I am more Vietnamese than you guys, your government should hire me.



Carlosa said:


> Ok, doesn't matter, whether you believe it or not, it doesn't change the reality of what it actually is. No, I don't know anybody at the MP thread outside of the forum and I actually don't know who the fake german and aussie people are (I can think of one that mentioned once that he did his military service in Germany, maybe that's the one that you are talking about, I'm not sure).
> 
> You take many things as obvious, but that's only in your mind, but again, your thinking does not actually change reality, so suit yourself as much as you want.



Ok I apologise for thinking you are a Spanish imposter. I believe you. Now we Spanish brothers can celebrate our victory over the Aussie football team.


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## sweetgrape

Carlosa said:


> Please Master Vadar, don't destroy the planet, just settle for destroying China, the rest of the planet will appreciate you for getting rid of the plague.


  ，Kid, idiot, or clown?

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> yes, I am a non-Viet pretending to be fake German.
> in reality I am Darth Vader and have the power to destroy the planet earth.



I didn't even mentioned you in this thread, so learn to read first before you try to be funny. I don't mind you posting sarcastic comments but atleast back them up with facts so that I can respond. I may make outlandish or provocative posts but atleast I back them up with facts. Like when I argue long ago that Russia is not your ally and will not help you if it is not convienient for them. Now you know what I said is the truth.

I said that the riots in VN was instigated from outside (US). Here are the facts from your own news source:

Viet Tan reactionary party behind riots in Vietnam hub: police



> *Police in Ho Chi Minh City have concluded that the riots that broke out in Thu Duc District last month was incited and caused by what so called the Viet Tan (Vietnam Reform) Party, an outlawed reactionary organization based in the U.S. *




I said that your country hosted a banquet for the the Chinese councilar. Actually I made this as a joke but it turned out to be true LOL:

China scolds Vietnam for 'hyping up' South China Sea oil rig row| World| Reuters




> Yang later met Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and was due to have talks with the head of Vietnam's ruling communist party before attending a *dinner hosted by Minh*.




You see, my comments are backed by facts and I know more things about vietnam than you. I am more Vietnamese than you.



Soryu said:


> you can get lost, chicom, nobody care about you if you leave ...



Why are you so angry? I am not a Chinese nor a communist.

This thread has derailed, lets get back to the spirit of this thread:

Our great defence offical have unilaterally declared that Japan will provide patrol ship early in 2015. What ships do you think they will donate?

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## Soryu

Black Flag said:


> Why are you so angry? I am not a Chinese nor a communist.
> 
> This thread has derailed, lets get back to the spirit of this thread:
> 
> Our great defence offical have unilaterally declared that Japan will provide patrol ship early in 2015. What ships do you think they will donate?


angry !?
tsk tsk tsk ... ok, you helpless clown are pathetic as ever ... keep barking as you want ...

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## Reashot Xigwin

* Russia and Vietnam will Establish a Joint Venture for Ship Repair *




Vietnamese Navy Gepard 3.9 frigates (photo : Wiki)

Russia and Vietnam are negotiating a joint venture for maintenance and repair of civil and military ships of various types, said Thursday Vietnam ambassador to Russia Pham Xuan Son.

"Negotiations on the establishment of a joint venture for maintenance and repair of all ships of all countries," - he said at a press conference on the day of Vietnamese culture in Russia.

Possible new enterprise ambassador mentioned while talking about the fate of the former Russian military base in Cam Ranh Bay, which is currently used exclusively by the Vietnamese side, but the Russian military ships can go in there, using a priority compared to other foreign ships.

He also said that at the moment in Vietnam held the sixth round of talks between Vietnam and the countries of the Customs Union on the establishment of a free trade zone. They are expected to be completed by the end of this year, after which the agreement will be signed.

Vietnamese Ambassador also noted growing cooperation between the two countries in the sphere of tourism and education, adding that Russia is becoming one of the leading training centers for Vietnam. From June 24 to July 1 in Moscow, St. Petersburg and Yaroslavl will be Days of Vietnamese Culture in Russia. During the event, concerts, exhibitions, round table, film screenings and other events.

(VPK)

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## Carlosa

** Ba Son Shipyard launches another two missile boats for the Vietnam People's Navy **

This morning (June 24th), the Ba Son Shipyard has launched two Project 1241.8 (Molniya) missile boats, designated M3 and M4. Two months ago, the VPN also received and finished sea trial for the first two ships (M1 and M2). This is a great news for the surface fleet of Vietnam, as well as the military shipbuilding industry. The experience gains from building these missile boats will help the industry in building bigger frigates in near future.

Also, the 5th Molniya missile boat is under construction and will be fitted soon.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> ** Ba Son Shipyard launches another two missile boats for the Vietnam People's Navy **
> 
> This morning (June 24th), the Ba Son Shipyard has launched two Project 1241.8 (Molniya) missile boats, designated M3 and M4. Two months ago, the VPN also received and finished sea trial for the first two ships (M1 and M2). This is a great news for the surface fleet of Vietnam, as well as the military shipbuilding industry. The experience gains from building these missile boats will help the industry in building bigger frigates in near future.
> 
> Also, the 5th Molniya missile boat is under construction and will be fitted soon.


Nice ships indeed. 

10 will be built in total, so 5 more to come. There is a report from Russia , the navy wants 20 in total.


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## Carlosa

There are many reports of the T-90 tank being tested or deployed by the VPA, here are some pics of Russia and Indian T-90's:















View attachment 36479
View attachment 36480


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## nufix

Carlosa said:


> There are many reports of the T-90 tank being tested or deployed by the VPA, here are some pics:
> 
> View attachment 36477
> View attachment 36478
> View attachment 36479
> View attachment 36480
> View attachment 36481
> View attachment 36482
> View attachment 36483



are these really VPA tanks? if you may notice, one of these photos appear to be Chinese Type 99 tank


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## pigtaker

nufix said:


> are these really VPA tanks? if you may notice, one of these photos appear to be Chinese Type 99 tank


haha, they are busy at delusioning themself. they have neither intention nor knowledge to tell who is who.

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## Carlosa

nufix said:


> are these really VPA tanks? if you may notice, one of these photos appear to be Chinese Type 99 tank



Those are pics of Russian and Indian T-90's, there will not be any pics of VPA T-90's for years to come as it is standard practice for the VPA to do so.

Deleted 1 pic that was possibly incorrectly labeled as T-90 just in case.

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## somsak

I want to know how average Vietnamese feels about Thailand-Vietnam history. Vietnamese youth, and those who old enough to remember Indochina war until Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia.


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## EastSea

somsak said:


> I want to know how average Vietnamese feels about Thailand-Vietnam history. Vietnamese youth, and those who old enough to remember Indochina war until Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia.



Are you Thai in native or chinese living in Thailand ?



Carlosa said:


> There are many reports of the T-90 tank being tested or deployed by the VPA, here are some pics of Russia and Indian T-90's:
> 
> View attachment 36536
> View attachment 36537
> 
> View attachment 36477
> View attachment 36478
> View attachment 36479
> View attachment 36480
> View attachment 36481
> View attachment 36482
> View attachment 36483



we can import from Russia, it is good toy.


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## EastSea

T 54.

1962 in Vietnam.





1962-1965





1967.





1972





1972 in Battle of Quangtri





1974.





1975





and now.

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## Nike

How much your T-54 is still active in service?

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## EastSea

madokafc said:


> How much your T-54 is still active in service?



I don't know, but all training has been used such old toys.









































This is another toy.

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## BoXilai

EastSea said:


> I don't know, but all training has been used such old toys...



They're mobile coffins, not toys. Vietnam you should bury and replace them before it's too late.

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## EastSea

BoXilai said:


> They're mobile coffins, not toys. Vietnam you should bury and replace them before it's too late.



I think we have to upgrade this toys first.

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## Viet

somsak said:


> I want to know how average Vietnamese feels about Thailand-Vietnam history. Vietnamese youth, and those who old enough to remember Indochina war until Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia.


Let history be history. The only thing that matters is Thailand shall become our ally today in our struggle against the evil chinese empire.

My friend, we are midst of a heroic battle as the dark force wants to subjugate and enslave our country Vietnam. 

Join us, become our friend and ally!

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## somsak

EastSea said:


> Are you Thai in native or chinese living in Thailand ?
> .



Why do you ask? Are you going to give me different answer for my different roots?
Over my roots, 7/8 of my great grand fathers/mothers migrated from China, including paternal lineage, 1/8 was a Thai from city of Sukhotai. I am 4th generation of these migrants in Thailand.


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## somsak

Viet said:


> Let history be history. The only thing that matters is Thailand shall become our ally today in our struggle against the evil chinese empire.



Im no Thailand policy maker nor soldier. I am more like normal history guy. Please answer. I won't use the feeling to judge thing.


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## EastSea

somsak said:


> Why do you ask? Are you going to give me different answer for my different roots?
> Over my roots, 7/8 of my great grand fathers/mothers migrated from China, including paternal lineage, 1/8 was a Thai from city of Sukhotai. I am 4th generation of these migrants in Thailand.



Thks, I would like to know more about you other than your ID. Policy and economy of Thailand is in hands of Chinese-Thais. from your avatar I think you are Red T-shirt supporter.

Polpot was puppet of China, he attacked and invaded in to Vietnam's land first. we don't let Khmer Rouge and China attack us in the same time.

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## NiceGuy

somsak said:


> I want to know how average Vietnamese feels about Thailand-Vietnam history. Vietnamese youth, and those who old enough to remember Indochina war until Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia.


The old VN soldiers think Thai army is coward, always run for their lives when facing VN army from 1989 to 1988. Young VNese when thinking abt Thailand, they think abt a country of Gay, Les with a big mess in politics.

But VNese still understand Thailand is richer than VN and is our biggest competitor in rice exporting.

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## AViet

NiceGuy said:


> The old VN soldiers think Thai army is coward, always run for their lives when facing VN army from 1989 to 1988. Young VNese when thinking abt Thailand, they think abt a country of Gay, Les with a big mess in politics.
> 
> But VNese still understand Thailand is richer than VN and is our biggest competitor in rice exporting.


 
During 10 years after our victory in 1975, Vietnamese army were possibly one of the best army in the world. I think in any conventional war at that time, we can beat any army within our territory or in a neutral territory. Thailand were weaker militarily than Vietnam at that time, but that does not mean now they are still weaker.

I have worked with a lot of Thai people. Generally, they are hard-working and nice.

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## Nike

BoXilai said:


> They're mobile coffins, not toys. Vietnam you should bury and replace them before it's too late.




i am quite agree with you, those oldies of BTR's and T-54/55 of Vietnam need some partial replacement ASAP. Their infantry and artillery forces is quite good in armament and fire power distribution per-combat unit, but their Cavalry is in contrary

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## NiceGuy

AViet said:


> During 10 years after our victory in 1975, Vietnamese army were possibly one of the best army in the world. I think in any conventional war at that time, we can beat any army within our territory or in a neutral territory. Thailand were weaker militarily than Vietnam at that time, but that does not mean now they are still weaker.
> 
> I have worked with a lot of Thai people. Generally, they are hard-working and nice.


Thai soldiers still lack of the will to fight like in 1979 when VN army is always ready for any war happen. As u can see, Iraq army has better armed than the rebel but still lost and always run away bcz its soldiers dont have any will to fight.



madokafc said:


> i am quite agree with you, those oldies of BTR's and T-54/55 of Vietnam need some partial replacement ASAP. Their infantry and artillery forces is quite good in armament and fire power distribution per-combat unit, but their Cavalry is in contrary


We r focusing in Air force and Navy. Our land forces is still very strong, our soldiers r always in high morale, they still can protect our land well

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## tbquestion

Viet said:


> Nice ships indeed.
> 
> 10 will be built in total, so 5 more to come. There is a report from Russia , the navy wants 20 in total.





Viet said:


> Let history be history. The only thing that matters is Thailand shall become our ally today in our struggle against the evil chinese empire.
> 
> My friend, we are midst of a heroic batTtle as the dark force wants to subjugate and enslave our country Vietnam.
> 
> Join us, become our friend and ally!


A big commies wants to consume a small commies = one less commies in the world. Hurray!


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## EastSea

Home made new warships.

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## cnleio



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## Viet

A new patrol vessel for
Australian Customs & Border Protection Service (ACBPS), built by _Gardline Australia shipyard in Vung Tau._

_Thaiyak is powered by twin main Caterpillar 32 engines and can reach a top speed of 12 kt. It can accommodate a crew of 16. The vessel was built jointly by shipbuilders Strategic Marine and Gardline Australia at the latter's shipyard in Vung Tau, Vietnam and has a planned service life of 20 years.

Australian customs christens new vessel, highlights counter-smuggling success - IHS Jane's 360
_

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## Viet

the #1 locally built Molyina corvette

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## Viet

*One step closer to a Vietnam-Philippines military alliance!*

Philippine Armed Forces Chief of Staff General Emmanuel Bautista visits Vietnam, from June 23-26.

Both sides have agreed in strengthening the cooperation at all levels, e.i. personnel training, naval ship visits, search and rescue at sea; solve the problem of fishermen violating the law while fishing in bordering waters and exchange views on matters of mutual concern.














#

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## Viet

flag raising on Vietnam 's fisheries surveillance ship KN-635. It is one of vessels having deployed to monitor the chinese oil rig.





paratroopers

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## Viet

I think we all can be proud of him.

US President Barack Obama has just promoted Colonel Lương Xuân Việt to *Brigadier General*. He is the deputy commander of the *US Army **1st Cavalry Division*.

The 1st Cavalry Division is an elite devision and one of the most decorated combat units of the United States Army. It is based at Fort Hood, Texas.

Congratulation!


*














*

*




*

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## tbquestion

Viet said:


> I think we all can be proud of him.
> 
> US President Barack Obama has just promoted Colonel Lương Xuân Việt to *Brigadier General*. He is the deputy commander of the *US Army **1st Cavalry Division*.
> 
> The 1st Cavalry Division is an elite devision and one of the most decorated combat units of the United States Army. It is based at Fort Hood, Texas.
> 
> Congratulation!
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


His father probably fought for the South Vietnamese in the Vietnam war. Thank God, he is like his father and not a Viet Cong.

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## Jlaw

tbquestion said:


> His father probably fought for the South Vietnamese in the Vietnam war. Thank God, he is like his father and not a Viet Cong.




Many Chinese-Vietnamese left Vietnam after the war due to persecution by the Vietcong government.
This man has no love for Vietnam.


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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Many Chinese-Vietnamese left Vietnam after the war due to persecution by the Vietcong government.
> This man has no love for Vietnam.


He is not Chinese but Vietnamese and he loves Vietnam like the majority of Vietnamese. Any Viet is first and foremost a patriot and nationalist, regardless whether he is communist or capitalist.

You are a moron and think like other useless chicom. During the US-Vietnam war, most Vietnamese with chinese decents did not go to the army, but worked as merchants. After the war, similar picture in America or elsewhere.


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## Viet

tbquestion said:


> His father probably fought for the South Vietnamese in the Vietnam war. Thank God, he is like his father and not a Viet Cong.


Yes, he is the only son in a family of seven daughters. His father served in the Marine Corps of the Republic of Vietnam. Some more pics:

in Afghanistan






with the Vietnamese community in the United States


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## Danny2014

Jlaw said:


> Many Chinese-Vietnamese left Vietnam after the war due to persecution by the Vietcong government.
> This man has no love for Vietnam.



Quit making up shit William Hung.

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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> He is not Chinese but Vietnamese and he loves Vietnam like the majority of Vietnamese. Any Viet is first and foremost a patriot and nationalist, regardless whether he is communist or capitalist.
> 
> You are a moron and think like other useless chicom. During the US-Vietnam war, most Vietnamese with chinese decents did not go to the army, but worked as merchants. After the war, similar picture in America or elsewhere.


Yeah, he seems like Mr Gambit here, hate the communist ( infact, his family was cheated by US, enslaved by France colony ) but still a patriot VNese .


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## Rechoice

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, he seems like Mr Gambit here, hate the communist ( infact, his family was cheated by US, enslaved by France colony ) but still a patriot VNese .



cold war is dead, bro.

when US navy ships visited, Vietnamese American soldiers welcomed us like relatives.

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## Viet

I will continue to post some activities and achievements of overseas Vietnamese.

First in the history of Australia: a Vietnamese to be promoted to South Australia's next governor: Le Hieu Van.
He is the current deputy, and will replace Rear Admiral Kevin Scarce from September.

Congratulation!

Hieu Van Le to be next SA Governor: From war-torn Vietnam to vice-regal post - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## Jlaw

Viet said:


> He is not Chinese but Vietnamese and he loves Vietnam like the majority of Vietnamese. Any Viet is first and foremost a patriot and nationalist, regardless whether he is communist or capitalist.
> 
> You are a moron and think like other useless chicom. During the US-Vietnam war, most Vietnamese with chinese decents did not go to the army, but worked as merchants. After the war, similar picture in America or elsewhere.


He loves Vietnam so much his family fled Vietnam to the US.
You know he has Chinese first and surname.



Danny2014 said:


> Quit making up shit William Hung.


William Hung made more money in a shorter time span than all you Viets on pdf will ever make.



Viet said:


> I will continue to post some activities and achievements of overseas Vietnamese.
> 
> First in the history of Australia: a Vietnamese to be promoted to South Australia's next governor: Le Hieu Van.
> He is the current deputy, and will replace Rear Admiral Kevin Scarce from September.
> 
> Congratulation!
> 
> Hieu Van Le to be next SA Governor: From war-torn Vietnam to vice-regal post - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



Why are you posting Chinese born Vietnamese ? His last name is Le, and he was those people the Viets dispised when he fled after VC took power.


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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> He loves Vietnam so much his family fled Vietnam to the US.
> You know he has Chinese first and surname.
> 
> William Hung made more money in a shorter time span than all you Viets on pdf will ever make.
> 
> Why are you posting Chinese born Vietnamese ? His last name is Le, and he was those people the Viets dispised when he fled after VC took power.


Millions of Vietnamese have "Le" as surname. Are they all Chinese?
Perhaps I am Chinese, too as my surname comes from a Vietnamese war lord.

Estimated 80 per cent of Vietnamese words are derived from Chinese. Are 80 per cent Vietnamese in reality Chinese? Can I claim Shanghai as my hometown and Xi Jinping my imperial president? 

Chinese logic at best.


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## Danny2014

Jlaw said:


> He loves Vietnam so much his family fled Vietnam to the US.
> You know he has Chinese first and surname.
> 
> 
> William Hung made more money in a shorter time span than all you Viets on pdf will ever make.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you posting Chinese born Vietnamese ? His last name is Le, and he was those people the Viets dispised when he fled after VC took power.



Now you are just getting desperate boy. Majority of my friends have the last name of Le, and I know dam well they are not Chinese. If you want to claim Chinese born in Vietnam. You should claim *Jiverly Wong*. This guy was born in Vietnam but* 100 percent Chinese Ethnicity*.





*The perpetrator*

"The perpetrator in the American Civic Association shooting was 41-year-old Jiverly Antares Wong (December 8, 1967 – April 3, 2009), a resident of Johnson City, New York. Wong was born into an *ethnic Chinese (Hoa) family in South Vietnam*."


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## Jlaw

Danny2014 said:


> Now you are just getting desperate boy. Majority of my friends have the last name of Le, and I know dam well they are not Chinese. If you want to claim Chinese born in Vietnam. You should claim *Jiverly Wong*. This guy was born in Vietnam but* 100 percent Chinese Ethnicity*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The perpetrator*
> 
> "The perpetrator in the American Civic Association shooting was 41-year-old Jiverly Antares Wong (December 8, 1967 – April 3, 2009), a resident of Johnson City, New York. Wong was born into an *ethnic Chinese (Hoa) family in South Vietnam*."


Little girl, just answer my posts instead of posting unrelated news. Vietnamese form of debate?



Viet said:


> Millions of Vietnamese have "Le" as surname. Are they all Chinese?
> Perhaps I am Chinese, too as my surname comes from a Vietnamese war lord.
> 
> Estimated 80 per cent of Vietnamese words are derived from Chinese. Are 80 per cent Vietnamese in reality Chinese? Can I claim Shanghai as my hometown and Xi Jinping my imperial president?
> 
> Chinese logic at best.


English people don't have Chinese surnames. Since you guys language came from China, be humble
No you cannot claim shanghai as your hometown because you were not born there.


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## Danny2014

Jlaw said:


> Little girl, just answer my posts instead of posting unrelated news. Vietnamese form of debate?


I did answered your posts fool. Now get with the program. 10 percent population of Vietnam has the surname of Le. What you need to do is quit claiming what is not yours and stick to reality.


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## Zeenar

Viet said:


> He is not Chinese but Vietnamese and he loves Vietnam like the majority of Vietnamese. Any Viet is first and foremost a patriot and nationalist, regardless whether he is communist or capitalist.
> 
> You are a moron and think like other useless chicom. During the US-Vietnam war, most Vietnamese with chinese decents did not go to the army, but worked as merchants. After the war, similar picture in America or elsewhere.


How do you know? Are you him?

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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Little girl, just answer my posts instead of posting unrelated news. Vietnamese form of debate?
> 
> English people don't have Chinese surnames. Since you guys language came from China, be humble
> No you cannot claim shanghai as your hometown because you were not born there.


"Le" is a very common name in Vietnam, like "Lee" in Korea.
I guess "Li" is the Chinese counterpart.

Shanghai is my imaginary hometown like you claim every Vietnamese with "Le" is Chinese.



Zeenar said:


> How do you know? Are you him?


I know it. I see your flag is VN. Go and ask a Vietnamese.
If you have a chance, pls visit Vietnamese towns in Germany, France, America, Canada, Australia, Thailand or elsewhere, and ask the question.

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## Jlaw

Zeenar said:


> How do you know? Are you him?



There were other threads made with these same Vietnamese members calling Chinese-Vietnamese who fled Vietnam a derogatory name which I forget at this time . When one of these people who fled Vietcong controlled Vietnam become successful they claim as their Vietnamese brothers. 

Now you see why why Chinese members called Vietnamese two faced?

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## NiceGuy

Jlaw said:


> Why are you posting Chinese born Vietnamese ? His last name is Le, and he was those people the Viets dispised when he fled after VC took power.


Le is Li in Chinese, and Li ethnic is one of BaiYue group (Yue= Viet). China stole the last name Li from Baiyue.


> *The Li ethnic* minority lives mainly in the Li and Miao Autonomous Prefecture, in the centre and south ofHainan Province, with a small number of them mixed with the Han people. *They had been a branch of the ancient Baiyue *groups who had a close relationship with such present ethnic minorities as Buyi, Dong, Dai, Shui and Zhuang. According to historical records, they have been on Hainan Island for over three thousand years. Li is derived from their pronunciation of 'mountains'. Today they have a large population of 1,247,814.
> Hainan Li Ethnic Group: Customs, Culture, Language, Crafts

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## EastSea

"Le" surname of Vietnamese is "Lê" in Vietnamese.

Lê Dynasty of Vietnam founded by Lê Lợi, he came from area, where is native land of Muong people.

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> Le is Li in Chinese, and Li ethnic is one of BaiYue group (Yue= Viet). China stole the last name Li from Baiyue.


You PDF Vietnamese sure love to distort history.

The ancient Li of Southern China were 俚 not 黎.

According to 中國姓氏辭典 the earliest Li was from a Shang vassal located in modern day Shanxi.
1.After Zhou destroyed Shang,Zhou Wu Waang enfeoffed the purported descendants of Yao to the Li state.
2.Due to the Siniczation edict by Wei Xiaowen Di the Xianbei family of Suli(素黎) changed their surname to Li.






Look up 黎彌且 and 黎頊 they are from Qi and Wei respectively nothing to do with Baiyue.

If anything Vietnamese are copying Chinese surnames not the other way around.

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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> He loves Vietnam so much his family fled Vietnam to the US.
> You know he has Chinese first and surname.
> 
> 
> William Hung made more money in a shorter time span than all you Viets on pdf will ever make.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you posting Chinese born Vietnamese ? His last name is Le, and he was those people the Viets dispised when he fled after VC took power.


They are Vietnamese, you moron. Stop your stupidity.

There are about 5 millions Vietnamese living overseas spreading over 100 countries and territories. Why? Different reasons ranging from politics to economics, but that is not what you should bother about.

Since at least a decade Vietnam is sending over 100,000 to overseas a year to work. That is a trend to go overseas.

Following the Sino-Vietnam confrontation many Chinese Vietnamese went to China. Most of them returned to Vietnam when the war was over as far as I know.

Le and many others are Vietnamese surnames. The person I posted are Vietnamese. They fled Vietnam because of war, but that does not change the love to their homeland.

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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> You PDF Vietnamese sure love to distort history.
> 
> The ancient Li of Southern China were 俚 not 黎.
> 
> According to 中國姓氏辭典 the earliest Li was from a Shang vassal located in modern day Shanxi.
> 1.After Zhou destroyed Shang,Zhou Wu Waang enfeoffed the purported descendants of Yao to the Li state.
> 2.Due to the Siniczation edict by Wei Xiaowen Di the Xianbei family of Suli(素黎) changed their surname to Li.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look up 黎彌且 and 黎頊 they are from Qi and Wei respectively nothing to do with Baiyue.
> 
> If anything Vietnamese are copying Chinese surnames not the other way around.


The link I posted is Chinese link, not VNese link. (travelchinaguide.com).

anyway: If what u said is true, then Li group is still belong to Baiyue, and Chinese forced them to change their sur name in order to make Baiyue group sound like Chinese .

So, we didn't copy Le (Li) from China, base on ur history book, u forced us to change our sur name. But bcz China burned all VN history books, so people can not identify ur history book is true or not.

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## Zeenar

Viet said:


> "Le" is a very common name in Vietnam, like "Lee" in Korea.
> I guess "Li" is the Chinese counterpart.
> 
> Shanghai is my imaginary hometown like you claim every Vietnamese with "Le" is Chinese.
> 
> 
> I know it. I see your flag is VN. Go and ask a Vietnamese.
> If you have a chance, pls visit Vietnamese towns in Germany, France, America, Canada, Australia, Thailand or elsewhere, and ask the question.


We all love Vietnam, but not the government.

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> The link I posted is Chinese link, not VNese link. (travelchinaguide.com).
> 
> anyway: If what u said is true, then Li group is still belong to Baiyue, and Chinese forced them to change their sur name in order to make Baiyue group sound like Chinese .
> 
> So, we didn't copy Le (Li) from China, base on ur history book, u forced us to change our sur name. But bcz China burned all VN history books, so people can not identify ur history book is true or not.


Classical example of moving goal posts,you claimed that Li surname was somehow stolen from the modern day Li people while I pointed out that Li surname existed in China since the Shang and that ancient and modern day Li are different.

Nowhere in your link does it say that the Li surname originated from Baiyue people.

Even the popular surname Nguyen/Ruan was originated from a Shang vassal showing that Vietnamese surnames are not of indigenous Austro Asiatic origin.

Southern China was viewed as a cesspit and a land for exiles and criminals by ancient Huaxia people hardly a land of opportunity.Even by middle Qing Southern China still had large groups of minorities and rebellions.

Systems similar to the Tusi system of the Yuan times already existed earlier which had Siniczed native rulers or descended rulers descended from Han migrants. Southern minorities were generally left alone or driven away instead of being directly assimilated.

Vietnamese and Koreans always love to make the excuse that their history books got burned,Chiense history was destroyed and rewritten multiple times yet Chinese don't make excuses about historical events.

Vietnamese love to make ridiculous claims that they ruled Southern China etc but they don't have anything to back it up except for their myths.

While Chinese use archaeological to show that controversial claims ie Han commanderies in Korea are corroborated by archaeological finds while there is absolutely nothing that supports the existence of the Hung Kings.

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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> We all love Vietnam, but not the government.


Yes, like me, I dislike communism, but love my country Vietnam. That is something many Chinese don't understand.


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## Zeenar

I prefer the South Vietnamese government.


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## EastSea

Grand Historian said:


> Classical example of moving goal posts,you claimed that Li surname was somehow stolen from the modern day Li people while I pointed out that Li surname existed in China since the Shang and that ancient and modern day Li are different.
> 
> Nowhere in your link does it say that the Li surname originated from Baiyue people.
> 
> Even the popular surname Nguyen/Ruan was originated from a Shang vassal showing that Vietnamese surnames are not of indigenous Austro Asiatic origin.
> 
> Southern China was viewed as a cesspit and a land for exiles and criminals by ancient Huaxia people hardly a land of opportunity.Even by middle Qing Southern China still had large groups of minorities and rebellions.
> 
> Systems similar to the Tusi system of the Yuan times already existed earlier which had Siniczed native rulers or descended rulers descended from Han migrants. Southern minorities were generally left alone or driven away instead of being directly assimilated.
> 
> Vietnamese and Koreans always love to make the excuse that their history books got burned,Chiense history was destroyed and rewritten multiple times yet Chinese don't make excuses about historical events.
> 
> Vietnamese love to make ridiculous claims that they ruled Southern China etc but they don't have anything to back it up except for their myths.
> 
> While Chinese use archaeological to show that controversial claims ie Han commanderies in Korea are corroborated by archaeological finds while there is absolutely nothing that supports the existence of the Hung Kings.



Le (Lê), Lee (Lý) Lao ... is popular surname of Bai Yue people. It is not invented by Han Chinese.

Van Lang of Hung Kings is stated in our history book, written by Vietnamese Historian. We don't care what you say here.


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## DT1010

Zeenar said:


> I prefer the South Vietnamese government.


a corrupt, slave-minded government?


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## Soryu

Vietnamese PKO in South Sudan:

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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Classical example of moving goal posts,you claimed that Li surname was somehow stolen from the modern day Li people while I pointed out that Li surname existed in China since the Shang and that ancient and modern day Li are different.
> 
> Nowhere in your link does it say that the Li surname originated from Baiyue people.
> 
> Even the popular surname Nguyen/Ruan was originated from a Shang vassal showing that Vietnamese surnames are not of indigenous Austro Asiatic origin.
> 
> Southern China was viewed as a cesspit and a land for exiles and criminals by ancient Huaxia people hardly a land of opportunity.Even by middle Qing Southern China still had large groups of minorities and rebellions.
> 
> Systems similar to the Tusi system of the Yuan times already existed earlier which had Siniczed native rulers or descended rulers descended from Han migrants. Southern minorities were generally left alone or driven away instead of being directly assimilated.
> 
> Vietnamese and Koreans always love to make the excuse that their history books got burned,Chiense history was destroyed and rewritten multiple times yet Chinese don't make excuses about historical events.
> 
> 
> 
> While Chinese use archaeological to show that controversial claims ie Han commanderies in Korea are corroborated by archaeological finds while there is absolutely nothing that supports the existence of the Hung Kings.


Ur history books r full of distortion, and dont have any solid evidence to prove they r absolute correct.


> Vietnamese love to make ridiculous claims that they ruled Southern China etc but they don't have anything to back it up except for their myths.


Oh, really ?? Then why China is scared of debating with VN in international court ?? We have full of evidence to prove those islands belong to VN when all China evidence r fake.

Dont try to lie here, we dont wanna waste our time for ur cheap lie. Go to international court and prove it to the World.

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## NiceGuy

Today news:


> *Lời cảnh cáo đanh thép của Việt Nam: Tên lửa đối đất trên tàu ngầm Kilo*
> Giáo dục Thời đại - 30/06/2014 17:20
> *Thiết kế nguyên bản của tàu ngầm Kilo 636 không có các loại tên lửa dùng để tiêu diệt các mục tiêu trên đất liền.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Cải tiến của người Nga hay yêu cầu của Việt Nam?*
> 
> Với quan điểm trang bị vũ khí để bảo vệ chủ quyền đất nước mà không dùng để đe dọa hoặc xâm lược nước khác nên các loại vũ khí Việt Nam mua từ trước đến nay đều chỉ là vũ khí phòng thủ. Tên lửa đối đất dùng để tấn công tiêu diệt các loại mục tiêu trên đất liền không được xem là vũ khí mang tính phòng thủ.
> 
> Đối với loại vũ khí này, ngoại lệ duy nhất mà Việt Nam có là tên lửa đất đối đất Scud. Nó được đưa vào trang bị trong hoàn cảnh lịch sử khi Việt Nam và Trung Quốc có những mâu thuẫn sâu sắc, Scud được Việt Nam coi là vũ khí để răn đe tránh một cuộc chiến tương tự như năm 1979.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Tên lửa Scud của Việt Nam_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Tên lửa đối đất 3M-14E, tầm bắn 290 km, đầu chiến đấu nặng 400 kg_
> 
> Tàu ngầm Kilo 636 được Nga ký hợp đồng xuất khẩu cho 7 nước bao gồm Trung Quốc, Ấn Độ, Iran, Ba Lan, Romani, Algeria và Việt Nam. Tàu ngầm Kilo của Việt Nam sẽ được lắp đặt tên lửa hành trình tấn công đối đất 3M-14E loại mới nhất, có tầm bắn 290 km. Loại tên lửa này không được Bộ Quốc phòng Nga phê chuẩn xuất khẩu cho Trung Quốc. Ngoài Việt Nam, hai nước khác được Nga xuất khẩu tên lửa 3M-14E là Ấn Độ và Algeria.



Translate: strong warning to China air base : VN Kilos with 3M-14E missiles for ground attack

The original design of the Kilo 636 submarines without arming missiles to destroy targets on land (sea-to-surface/ sea-to-ground missile). But Vietnam's Russian- built Kilo 636MV submarines are equipped with 3M-14E missiles for ground attack.











The 3M-14E missile, a range of 290 km, warhead weighed 400 kg


The requirement of Vietnam

With a view to arming to defend the country's sovereignty without using or threatening to invade other countries, Weapons that Vietnam has bought are only defensive. The missile used for land attack, or destroy targets on land, is not considered as defensive weapons.

For this viewpoint, the only exception is that Vietnam armed Scud missiles (ground to groumd missile). They are fitted amid the historical context when Vietnam and China have deeply conflicted, Vietnam armed Scud to regard as deterrent weapons to avoid a war similar to 1979.


The Vietnam's Russian built Kilo class submarines are signed to export for 7 countries including China, India, Iran, Poland, Romania, Algeria and Vietnam. Vietnam's Kilo submarines will be installed cruise missiles for land attack with 3M-14E latest type, has a range of 290 km. The missiles are not approved to export to China by the Russian Ministry of Defence. Only 3 countries that Russia exported this missile to are India and Algeria.

It should be noted that the weapons on the Russian Kilo-636 is equipped with the review and requirement of customers. Because of the specific requirements so the price of Vietnam's Kilo Submarines is much higher than China's ones. Thus it can be stated that 3M-14E missiles equipped for Vietnam's Kilo Submarines are the requirement of Vietnam.

The steel punch

In the disputed islands issue in the South China Sea, China falls into a disadvantage in terms of geography, they try to switch weapons facilities near the disputed islands as possible. Instances of this is that China has built a giant military bases in Sanya (Hainan Island), priority is the most modern weapons and facilities. Besides strengthening forces on Woody Island in the Paracel Islands that Chinese invasions of Vietnam, China wants to turn Sanya and Paracel Islands into the place of rallying the Air Force and Navy when conflicts occur.







I*n this context, Vietnam called to equip itself with the weapons that can stop the Chinese forces in Hainan Island. And the 3M-14E missile, a range of 290 km, 400 kg warhead was chosen. The vessel for carrying this missile is the Kilo 636MV submarine which can reach and launch the steel punches to paralyze the enemy bases. With the lack of support from the Air Force as well as logistics resupply techniques, Chinese forces fighting in the South China Sea will fall into difficult situations*.

Then Vietnam will use Air Force aircrafts including the Su-30MK2, Su-30MK2V, Su-27,... and Navy surface ships with submarines sorties from Central Coast aided by anti-aircraft and ground-to-sea missiles (S-300, K-300P Bastion-P, 4K44B Redut, Uran E,...) Vietnam will fully control the South China Sea.

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## Grand Historian

How shameless can you Vietnamese trolls be?

Stealing Chinese history and culture must be a norm.


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## Rechoice

Grand Historian said:


> How shameless can you Vietnamese trolls be?
> 
> Stealing Chinese history and culture must be a norm.



Han Chinese stolen wet rice planting technique of Yue people, Han Chinese eaten only dumplings in the past when they were in Middle Terrain in the North China.

Your surname is Wu (吳), It is surname of clan names of Wu Yue people in Zhie Jiang, no Han. Your ancestor is stolen surname from Yue people.

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## Grand Historian

Rechoice said:


> Han Chinese stolen wet rice planting technique of Yue people, Han Chinese eaten only dumplings in the past when they were in Middle Terrain in the North China.
> 
> Your surname is Wu (吳), It is surname of clan names of Wu Yue people in Zhie Jiang, no Han. Your ancestor is stolen surname from Yue people.


Rice cultivation existed prior to any ethnic identities there are remnants of rice samples found in neolithic Northern Chinese sites.

Wu surname existed prior to the establishment of GouWu,吳起 was a native of Wey which has nothing to with the the GouWu and YuYue.

There are multiple origins for the Wu surname of today.
1.The Ji rulers of GouWu took this name as their own as well as the common people after the demise of the kingdom.
2.The descendants of the Kingdom of Yu(虞) decided to take Wu as their surname.

Rechoice,how many lies are you going to spew out of you forked tongue?


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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> How shameless can you Vietnamese trolls be?
> 
> Stealing Chinese history and culture must be a norm.


From when people invented Camera , we only see China copy and steal from other countries.



Grand Historian said:


> How shameless can you Vietnamese trolls be?
> 
> Stealing Chinese history and culture must be a norm.


From when people invented Camera , we only see China copy and steal from other countries.

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> From when people invented Camera , we only see China copy and steal from other countries.


Which is totally irrelevant from Vietnamese claiming that Chinese stole Baiyue surnames.

The issue isn't copying,humans do this to learn.

The issue is that nationalistic Vietnamese such as you seek to distort Chinese history and culture and make it seem like Vietnam was a major civilization.

If you want to live in your own delusions that Vietnam was the origin of Chinese civilization go ahead,I'm not going to stop you from becoming the laughingstock of the world.


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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Which is totally irrelevant from Vietnamese claiming that Chinese stole Baiyue surnames.
> 
> The issue isn't copying,humans do this to learn.
> 
> The issue is that nationalistic Vietnamese such as you seek to distort Chinese history and culture and make it seem like Vietnam was a major civilization.
> 
> If you want to live in your own delusions that Vietnam was the origin of Chinese civilization go ahead,I'm not going to stop you from becoming the laughingstock of the world.


U have No solid evidence to prove that VN copy culture from u. Base on ur history book, our Baiuye bro living in HaiNan isl was forced to change their surname to Le (Li), they didnt intend copy too.

All of ur history books were written base on ur hilarious imagination with no solid evidence back up, no one can trust ur book when u burned all our book to abolish our evidence. Thats the truth.

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> U have No solid evidence to prove that VN copy culture from u. Base on ur history book, our Baiuye bro living in HaiNan isl was forced to change their surname to Le (Li), they didnt intend copy too.
> 
> All of ur history books were written base on ur hilarious imagination with no solid evidence back up, no one can trust ur book when u burned all our book to abolish our evidence. Thats the truth.


Quite hilarious seeing you backpedal from your false claims,then attempting to distort Chinese history when it suits you

You want to deny historical events that don't suit your narrative of a mighty and anti Chinese Vietnam.

Chinese ruled Vietnam for about a millennium how is it inconceivable that Chinese did not migrate to Northern Vietnam or that the early Vietnamese Sinicized? 

Prove that the Li Hainan islanders were forced to use Chinese surnames,instead of adopting them for prestige.

Neither are they your brothers,talk with Southern Chinese minorities and see if they think they are Vietnamese

Truly pathetic,if you say Chinese history is all false when your own history heavily relies on Chinese accounts and mythology

Vietnamese claims get get more bolder and far fetching by the day,if all Chinese history is fake then why do Shang oracle bones,Terracotta warriors, etc all exist while there's absolutely nothing that proves that Van Lang ruled Southern China?


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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Prove that the Li Hainan islanders were forced to use Chinese surnames,instead of adopting them for prestige.


Why I need to prove when u can not have any solid evidence to prove that the Li Hainan islanders were adopted them for prestige ??? 


> Neither are they your brothers,talk with Southern Chinese minorities and see if they think they are Vietnamese


The Li belong to Baiuye group, Chinese book said that.

Other discussion r off topic, I dont need to answer.

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> Why I need to prove when u can not have any solid evidence to prove that the Li Hainan islanders were adopted them for prestige ???


Don't try to deflect this on me you made the claim now back it up.



NiceGuy said:


> The Li belong to Baiuye group, Chinese book said that.


That's not even a book,just some random internet article.

The Li ethnicty may have had Baiyue ancestors but how is that even make them brothers to Vietnamese?



NiceGuy said:


> Other discussion r off topic, I dont need to answer.


Every single time when I question PDF Vietnamese they always take the coward's way out and refuse to defend their claims you are no different.

Your claims.
1.Li surname was stolen from Baiyue
2.Vietnamese did not copy Chinese culture.
3.Chinese history is fake and has nothing to back it up.

Busting your claims.
1.Li was a Shang vassal and there are men who lived in Qi and Wei who had that surname.
2.Textual and archaeological evidence clearly shows ie architecture,usage of Hanzi,clothing etc.
3.Not even worth my time,clearly shows how deluded you are.


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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> Your claims.
> 1.Li surname was stolen from Baiyue
> 2.Vietnamese did not copy Chinese culture.
> 3.Chinese history is fake and has nothing to back it up.
> 
> Busting your claims.
> 1.Li was a Shang vassal and there are men who lived in Qi and Wei who had that surname.
> 2.Textual and archaeological evidence clearly shows ie architecture,usage of Hanzi,clothing etc.
> 3.Not even worth my time,clearly shows how deluded you are.


1. Give me a video clip or other solid evidences to prove that Li was a Shang vassal . Ur history books were writen base on ur hilarious imagination, can not be a trusted sources.

2. Right, u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that we copy culture from China too, all u said just base on ur fake history books.

3. That one is correct, u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that . Why couldnt China invent a camera to back up ur history claim when making a simple camera is not hard ??

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> 1. Give me a video clip or other solid evidences to prove that Li was a Shang vassal . Ur history books were writen base on ur hilarious imagination, can not be a trusted sources.
> 
> 2. Right, u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that we copy culture from China too, all u said just base on ur fake history books.
> 
> 3. That one is correct, u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that . Why couldnt China invent a camera to back up ur history claim when making a simple camera is not hard ??


1.I've already quoted it from a Chinese book if you can't read Hanzi that isn't my problem

2.Now you're just in denial a cursory google search would show you that medieval Vietnamese clothing resembled Chinese ones.











Are you also going to deny that your ancestors used Hanzi?

3.Why the hell would I have a video clip of something that occurred during the in ancient/medieval China?

Suppose we use your half witted logic and apply it to reality,all history prior to 1826 would be false

Why didn't the Vietnamese invent the camera,the camera is more complex than you give it to be.

What next,are you going to criticize the ancient Chinese for not being able to construct computers,electricity and other forms of modern day technology?

If you can't google search Chinese artifacts then you are clearly not able to think straight.


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## NiceGuy

Grand Historian said:


> 1.I've already quoted it from a Chinese book if you can't read Hanzi that isn't my problem
> 
> 2.Now you're just in denial a cursory google search would show you that medieval Vietnamese clothing resembled Chinese ones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


First: U can not prove that China invent that kind of clothes before VN, u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that

Second : China copy Western clothes now .


> Are you also going to deny that your ancestors used Hanzi?


 u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that Hanzi was invented by China too. It maybe Yuezi, and u copied, made it become Hanzi.


> 3.Why the hell would I have a video clip of something that occurred during the in ancient/medieval China?


Bcz ur hisroty books r full of distortion, can not be a trusted sources.

Since camera invented, people only see:

1. China copy clothes, building, machine, tech from the West
2. China was ruled by the West and later ruled and massacred by Japan.
3. China lost in 1979 war against VN .

Dont see China invent any good thing for mankind since camera was invented.

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## Carlosa

SIPRI Institute issued a report today about the weapons that Vietnam will receive in 2015. I got the report from SOHA.VN and here is the Google translation from Vietnamese:

*SIPRI Report: The new weapons that Vietnam will receive in 2015*
07/01/2014

*(Soha.vn) - Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) recently published a detailed report on the procurement of weapons in Vietnam.*

In the report, the institute for the first time shows the statistical category of new weapons that Vietnam will receive in 2015 in addition to receiving a full 8 Su-30MK2 remaining of the 3rd contract of 12 aircraft and 2 Kilo 636 next. Specifically as follows:

*1. The long-range air defense system S-300PMU2 Favorite*




In 2012, Vietnam has signed a contract with Russia for the purchase of four long-range S-300 PMU2 air defense system with S-150 missiles 48N6E2, contracts worth SIPRI estimated $ 480 million.

S-300PMU2 Favorite (NATO: SA-20B) was first introduced in 1997, this is the improved version of the S-300PMU1 with extended operating range up to 195 km thanks 48N6E2 equipped the new generation missile. S-300PMU2 capable against not just short range ballistic missiles, but also tactical ballistic missile medium range.

S-300PMU2 use system command and control vehicle commander 83M6E2 54K6E2 including radar and fire control radar 64N6E2 comes 30N6E2 targeted search can optionally use any altitude surveillance radar and radar 96L6E start the car 76N6 low self-propelled launcher or launcher pull 5P85TE2 5P85SE2 as S-300PMU1.

*2. Middle-range air defense systems Buk-M2E 9K37M2E*




Contract purchased 6 medium air defense systems Buk-M2E mobile with 200 9M317 missile was signed between Vietnam and Russia in 2012, an estimated contract value of $ 400 million. 

Buk-M2E version of Vietnam will be placed on wheeled chassis rather like the Russian onslaught.Buk is a series of missile systems are not self-propelled medium was developed by the Soviet Union and Russia. This system is designed to destroy cruise missiles, guided bombs and airplanes, Buk is the successor of the 2K12 Kub (SA-6 Gainful). The first version of Buk accepted in military equipment Soviet Union and Russia with code GRAU designation is 9K37 (U.S. and NATO SA-11 Gadfly). 

Since being put into equipment, Buk system has been improved constantly upgraded with the latest version 9K37M2 called Buk-M2 (SA-17).

A standard Buk battalion consists of one command vehicle; 1 reconnaissance station / start control stick and placed on vehicles; 6 launch vehicles, each vehicle carries 4 missiles ready 4 rocket launcher and associated reserves 3 resupply vehicles. A serving team includes Buk launcher attached 2 car radar and launch vehicles abide. Export team just 5 minutes to deploy combat and withdrew from the battlefield after release. The response time of export from the track team until the target missile launch is about 22 seconds. 9M317 missile weighs 720 kg, a maximum range of 50 km and Mach 4 carrying warheads weighing 70 kg.

*3. Missile system - flak 96K9 Pantsir-S1*





After news that Pantsir-S1 was in Vietnam, in the SIPRI report said Vietnam 2015 to be able to get the first system in a total of 12 systems ordered.Pantsir-S1 (NATO: SA-22 Greyhound) is a missile - flak is designed to destroy the target short-range and medium-range aircraft. Module's combat system can be mounted on crawler chassis, tires or put on the pedestal, fixed cylinder. This is a further development of the complex 9M311 Tunguska (SA-19).

The system consists of 2 Pantsir-S1 air defense artillery automatic 2 barrel sizes 30mm and 12 2A38M surface to air missiles with radar or optical devices to track targets and radio station commander. Currently these are considered complex flak missiles combined with the world's best selling and no rival in the weapons market.

One point to note is that the Vietnam Pantsir-S1 will not use that standard 57E6 missiles 9M311 Sosna-R uses as on Palma air defense systems of the two squire rocket ship Gepard 3.9. Sosna-R missile 9M311 characterized fighting quite a lot less than 57E6, especially a range of only 8 km compared with 20 km of 57E6. Value Pantsir-S1 complexes 12 and 300 9M311 missile was SIPRI estimated $ 300 million.

*4. Cruise missile Kh-59ME-to-ground*




Ovod Kh-59 (AS-13 Kingbolt) is a cruise missile homing system TV with two solid-propellant has a range of 115 km floors. Ovod-M Kh-59M (AS-18 Kazoo) is a variant with a large warhead and turbojet engines. The initial goal when designing the Kh-59 missiles to attack targets on land but later variant Kh-59MK anti-ship was also developed.

Kh-59ME missile has a length of 5.7 m; wingspan of 1.3 m; body diameter of 0.38 m; weight 930 kg; 320 kg warhead; speed of Mach 0.72 to 0.88; range of 200 km (115 km with the export). Vietnam has an order for 80 missiles Kh-59ME (AS-18 Kazoo) to equip the fighter Su-30MK2, transfer done in 2 years from 2015 to 2016, the contract value not disclosed.

*5. Trainer aircraft Yak-130*




Yakovlev Yak-130 training aircraft is being OKB Yakovlev of Russia and Aermacchi company (Italy) collaborative design and manufacture. After not agree with each other on the development side of the plane, two companies were based on the original design for the development of two different aircraft. Version of Aermacchi's M-346 is also the Yakovlev Yak-130.

Yak-130 is equipped with avionics systems advanced and good maneuverability, can simulate the tactics of different fighters. Yak-130 has 1 rack in the middle of the body and 8 other hangers on their ability to carry weapons, the total load of weapons that can bring the aircraft is 3,000 kg.

Currently there is no information on the Yak-130 purchase contract was signed, however SIPRI has said that Vietnam will receive the first of a total of 6 units in 2015, this is also the basis for this new Irkut said pre-fabricated chassis, just wait for the official contract signing can be mounted device to transfer immediately to Vietnam.

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## Water Car Engineer

Never mind all the historical non sense, go back on topic.

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## Grand Historian

NiceGuy said:


> First: U can not prove that China invent that kind of clothes before VN, u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that


Vietnamese copied Hanfu from China,look at these Han era images and cry















NiceGuy said:


> Second : China copy Western clothes now .
> u have no video clip or other solid evidences to prove that Hanzi was invented by China too. It maybe Yuezi, and u copied, made it become Hanzi.


Chinese don't say that Western clothing originated from China,seriously you nationalistic Vietnamese are so deluded that you claim everything that originated in China.

The ancestor of modern day Hanzi is the Shang era oracle bones,prove your assumption that Huaxia adopted Baiyue writing.












NiceGuy said:


> Bcz ur hisroty books r full of distortion, can not be a trusted sources.
> 
> Since camera invented, people only see:
> 
> 1. China copy clothes, building, machine, tech from the West
> 2. China was ruled by the West and later ruled and massacred by Japan.
> 3. China lost in 1979 war against VN .
> 
> Dont see China invent any good thing for mankind since camera was invented.


Then why do Western sources such as The Cambridge History of China bother quoting Chinese texts?

You are just jealous that the Chinese were able to record the events around them while Vietnamese were restricted to the Red River Delta.

Again if Chinese sources are nonsense what does that make Vietnamese sources then?

I have never met a forum member as dense as you.


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## Nike

Back to topics, please

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## DT1010

Grand Historian said:


> Vietnamese copied Hanfu from China,look at these Han era images and cry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese don't say that Western clothing originated from China,seriously you nationalistic Vietnamese are so deluded that you claim everything that originated in China.
> 
> The ancestor of modern day Hanzi is the Shang era oracle bones,prove your assumption that Huaxia adopted Baiyue writing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then why do Western sources such as The Cambridge History of China bother quoting Chinese texts?
> 
> You are just jealous that the Chinese were able to record the events around them while Vietnamese were restricted to the Red River Delta.
> 
> Again if Chinese sources are nonsense what does that make Vietnamese sources then?
> 
> I have never met a forum member as dense as you.


Are you educated? there is already enough pride, back to topic!

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## Battle of Bach Dang River

somsak said:


> I want to know how average Vietnamese feels about Thailand-Vietnam history. Vietnamese youth, and those who old enough to remember Indochina war until Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia.



Thailand has allowed hideout to the Khmer Rouge, one of regime most brutal genocide in human history. It's a unpleasant action. 

However, today we look Thailand as our friendly neighbour, a key member of the ASEAN community.

The number of VN people who wish to come travelling Thailand that is huge. That says all.


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## Viet

A new fisheries surveillance ship: KN-781, built by Ha Long Shipyard.

90.5 metre long, 14 metres wide, 7 metres high and has a loaded capacity of 500 tones putting out12,016 of horse power. The vessel can operate continuously in normal conditions on an area of 5,000 nautical miles and can endure the toughest of seas.

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## Viet

US warship USNS Cesar Chavez docks in Nha Trang Bay for maintenance.

The dry cargo ship and its 144-member crew is expected to stay for 15 days, while work is carried out by Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Shipyard Co., Ltd.

Launched in May 2012, the USNS Cesar Chavez is 689 feet long and 106 feet wide. It weighs 41,000 tons and can reach speeds of up to 20 knots.

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## Viet

910th Regiment: a trainee pilot along side of Aero L-39 Albatros subsonic jet trainer aircraft.

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## Viet

the state president visits the coast guard. I understand he promises to increase the funding for the navy.

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## Soryu

Gepard 3.9 on duty:

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## BoQ77

*US military official welcomed in Vietnam*
 Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnamese People’s Army , Lt. Gen. Vo Van Tuan received in  Hanoi on July 1 deputy commander of the US Army, Pacific, Gari Her.

 Major General Gari Her congratulated Vietnam on its establishment of a peace-keeping centre and dispatch of officials to join the UN peace-keeping mission.

He said he hopes the  Vietnamese Ministry of National Defence will approve the proposals made during the third Vietnam-US army consultation.

The officer also expressed his deep concern over China’s illegal and unilateral placement of its oil rig  Haiyang Shiyou -981 in Vietnam’s waters, and said that the  US State Secretary has officially asked China to withdraw its drilling rig from Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

 The US continues keeping a close watch and supporting Vietnam to struggle against China’s wrongful acts by peaceful means and in line with international law, he said.

For his part, the Vietnamese officer thanked the US for its support in protesting China’s illegal acts in the East Sea, especially its support at international forums, including the recent  Shangri La Dialogue in Singapore .

He suggested both sides map out long-term cooperation plans and said he hopes the US will share experience in building strong army units to cope with natural calamities and diseases.

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## somsak

I personally feel sorry of what Thailand did to North Vietnam in the past by hosting US air bases.
Thailand was an occupied country at that time. We lose WW2. After Vietnam wins the Vietnam war, we were able to drive US bases out of our soil. Thanx North Vietnamese friends.

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## NiceGuy

somsak said:


> I personally feel sorry of what Thailand did to North Vietnam in the past by hosting US air bases.
> Thailand was an occupied country at that time. We lose WW2. After Vietnam wins the Vietnam war, we were able to drive US bases out of our soil. Thanx North Vietnamese friends.


Its over , we defeated US and regain South VN. Now, our new war is with China, and thank for a Thai General showing his support to VietNam by saying: China claim in SCS(east sea) is baseless

VNese is always busy with war

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## Viet

*Ofshore fishing fleet*

A giant fleet of steel fishing vessels will be built by Cam Ranh Shipbuilding One-Member Co., Ltd: 
3,000 pieces!

2 vesels are built. 2,998 more to come.

Each vessel is 25.21m long, 7.8m wide, and can operate non-stop for 40 days at sea. It is equipped with a radar system, a fishing detector machine and a positioning system.

Cost of a vessel, including equipment on board: US$344,400.

We will have more fun with the Chinese.


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## Viet

Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh held talks with visiting Philippine Minister of Foreign Affairs Albert F. del Rosario in Hanoi on July 2. Both sides have agreed to increase cooperation toward strategic partnership.

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## tbquestion

Viet said:


> *Ofshore fishing fleet*
> 
> A giant fleet of steel fishing vessels will be built by Cam Ranh Shipbuilding One-Member Co., Ltd:
> 3,000 pieces!
> 
> 2 vesels are built. 2,998 more to come.
> 
> Each vessel is 25.21m long, 7.8m wide, and can operate non-stop for 40 days at sea. It is equipped with a radar system, a fishing detector machine and a positioning system.
> 
> Cost of a vessel, including equipment on board: US$344,400.
> 
> We will have more fun with the Chinese.


Yes, more pics of Chinese ships ramming Vietnamese ships. The Vietnamese enjoy getting ram from the front and behind. *wink*


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## tbquestion

NiceGuy said:


> Its over , we defeated US and regain South VN. Now, our new war is with China, and thank for a Thai General showing his support to VietNam by saying: China claim in SCS(east sea) is baseless
> 
> VNese is always busy with war


Now, Vietnam is fighting to protect the world from Communist aggression.


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## Viet

tbquestion said:


> Yes, more pics of Chinese ships ramming Vietnamese ships. The Vietnamese enjoy getting ram from the front and behind. *wink*


Piss off chicom

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Ofshore fishing fleet*
> 
> A giant fleet of steel fishing vessels will be built by Cam Ranh Shipbuilding One-Member Co., Ltd:
> 3,000 pieces!
> 
> 2 vesels are built. 2,998 more to come.
> 
> Each vessel is 25.21m long, 7.8m wide, and can operate non-stop for 40 days at sea. It is equipped with a radar system, a fishing detector machine and a positioning system.
> 
> Cost of a vessel, including equipment on board: US$344,400.
> 
> We will have more fun with the Chinese.



Nice, nice!!! Is this part of the government program of 30,000 new steel fishing vessels or is it unrelated to it?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Nice, nice!!! Is this part of the government program of 30,000 new steel fishing vessels or is it unrelated to it?


Yes, it is part of the program. 30,000 modern steel fishing boats will be built within 6 years, so the plan runs till 2020.

That is an unbelievable number, isn't it? It's a little bit ambitious. We will see.


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## visom

*Locked in dispute with China, Vietnam to build 32 coastal patrol ships*
Published July 03, 2014
Associated Press
Facebook29 Twitter15
HANOI, Vietnam – Vietnam says it plans to build 32 new coastal patrol vessels to help defend its maritime sovereignty.

Hanoi is locked in a territorial dispute with its much larger neighbor China in the South China Sea that has exposed its lack of maritime muscle and surveillance capabilities.

Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said the government would spend US$540 million on 32 new coast guard and fishery patrol vessels.

The decision was made Thursday, according to a government statement released later the same day.

Vietnam and China have sparred for years over who owns what in the South China Sea but tensions escalated sharply in early May when Beijing deployed a large oil rig near the disputed Paracel islands.

Hanoi has unsuccessfully sent ships to try and shoo the rig away.
____________________________________________________________________________

30,000 steel fishing boats doesn't sound like too many if its small, this this size

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## Viet

visom said:


> *Locked in dispute with China, Vietnam to build 32 coastal patrol ships*
> Published July 03, 2014
> Associated Press
> Facebook29 Twitter15
> HANOI, Vietnam – Vietnam says it plans to build 32 new coastal patrol vessels to help defend its maritime sovereignty.
> 
> Hanoi is locked in a territorial dispute with its much larger neighbor China in the South China Sea that has exposed its lack of maritime muscle and surveillance capabilities.
> 
> Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said the government would spend US$540 million on 32 new coast guard and fishery patrol vessels.
> 
> The decision was made Thursday, according to a government statement released later the same day.
> 
> Vietnam and China have sparred for years over who owns what in the South China Sea but tensions escalated sharply in early May when Beijing deployed a large oil rig near the disputed Paracel islands.
> 
> Hanoi has unsuccessfully sent ships to try and shoo the rig away.
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> 
> 30,000 steel fishing boats doesn't sound like too many if its small, this this size


well, 32 new coast guard vessels, plus 10 from Japan, 5 from America and 5 from India, so we will add 52 patrol vessels in 2015 into the patrol unit. That is not too bad, I believe.

the new 3,000 steel fishing vessels will help the coast guard and navy to protect our sea border.

we need more modern and bigger patrol vessels than the current ones. We have seen how chinese deploy big vessels to outgun us.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yes, it is part of the program. 30,000 modern steel fishing boats will be built within 6 years, so the plan runs till 2020.
> 
> That is an unbelievable number, isn't it? It's a little bit ambitious. We will see.



Yes, It is one hell of a number, but actually I don't think it changes much the actual number of vietnamese fishing ships, what its really remarkable is that they are trying to replace all the wooden boats with steel boats all at once. Those shipyards are surely going to be very happy. 

To put the numbers in context, I do remember that the chinese usually send 50,000 fishing boats to the east sea when the fishing season starts, but still, for Vietnam to have a number so close to the chinese number, that's very good. I wish it would be the same for the numbers of navy ships......

Its nice to see that as a consequence of the present situation with china, Vietnam is reacting and is building up the numbers of the coast guard / fisheries surveillance fleet nicely. Lets hope the same happens with the navy, because frankly, I think the chinese caught Vietnam napping. The build up of the navy was too little too late. After the events of 1988, the picture was already very clear and the Navy build up should it have been far more serious than what it was. Oh well, better late than never.

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## Viet

On June 30th, Vietnam coast guard reports three US reconnaissance aircrafts flew sorties over the chinese oil rig, one at low attitude, just 200m over the sea level.

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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> On June 30th, Vietnam coast guard reports three US reconnaissance aircrafts flew sorties over the chinese oil rig, one at low attitude, just 200m over the sea level.


See, what I said here is correct, US will help VN more when China plan to park more oil rig in SCS(east sea). 


> Yeah, US-JP-SK will get more pressure from China , their sea lane will be under China threat, so, they will have to help VN more.
> 
> US allow VN to enrich uranium in our soil now (even JP is not allow to do it), but we want a real Nuke warhead. If US agree, then , we will kick ur @$$ out after we got a real nuke bomb
> Vietnam should prepare for all scenarios in China oil spat: Party chief | Page 3

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, It is one hell of a number, but actually I don't think it changes much the actual number of vietnamese fishing ships, what its really remarkable is that they are trying to replace all the wooden boats with steel boats all at once. Those shipyards are surely going to be very happy.
> 
> To put the numbers in context, I do remember that the chinese usually send 50,000 fishing boats to the east sea when the fishing season starts, but still, for Vietnam to have a number so close to the chinese number, that's very good. I wish it would be the same for the numbers of navy ships......
> 
> Its nice to see that as a consequence of the present situation with china, Vietnam is reacting and is building up the numbers of the coast guard / fisheries surveillance fleet nicely. Lets hope the same happens with the navy, because frankly, I think the chinese caught Vietnam napping. The build up of the navy was too little too late. After the events of 1988, the picture was already very clear and the Navy build up should it have been far more serious than what it was. Oh well, better late than never.


we were long fooled by chinese propaganda of peaceful rise and co-existence.
in reality they just want to hide their intention of advancing their extreme nationalism and aggression.

now we will hit back.


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## djsjs

Viet said:


> we were long fooled by chinese propaganda of peaceful rise and co-existence.
> in reality they just want to hide their intention of advancing their extreme nationalism and aggression.
> 
> now we will hit back.


come on....bomb our 981, please..


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## Viet

djsjs said:


> come on....bomb our 981, please..


No, we are not foolish to start the war. you are free to fire the first shot. But we will make the waters of Paracels into the war zone. You have started the confrontation, you will get what you want.

here is a news perhaps of your interest:

a Vietnamese businessman (the Chairman of Duc Khai Corporation, a company specializing in the real estate business, import and export) has decided to invest some money to build 100 advanced fishing vessels and 2 helicopters. His intention: to fish in the waters of Paracels.

More fun coming soon.


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## djsjs

Viet said:


> No, we are not foolish to start the war. you are free to fire the first shot. But we will make the waters of Paracels into the war zone. You have started the confrontation, you will get what you want.
> 
> here is a news perhaps of your interest:
> 
> a Vietnamese businessman (the Chairman of Duc Khai Corporation, a company specializing in the real estate business, import and export) has decided to invest some money to build 100 advanced fishing vessels and 2 helicopters. His intention: to fish in the waters of Paracels.
> 
> More fun coming soon.


good news,no zuo no die. hope the war coming earlier.......even a small conflict would stop your economy growing for years...


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## Viet

SU-30s: air patrol in the south china sea






57mm anti-aircraft artillery battery in live firing exercise


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## A117CE

djsjs said:


> news,no zuo no die. hope the war coming e





djsjs said:


> good news,no zuo no die. hope the war coming earlier.......even a small conflict would stop your economy growing for years...


see! now everyone know about your truly face and so on your country, thanks for telling the truth behind the "peaceful growing" of your country, we appreciate it


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## djsjs

A117CE said:


> see! now everyone know about your truly face and so on your country, thanks for telling the truth behind the "peaceful growing" of your country, we appreciate it


see your IQ.if I represent 
my country, you wouldnt have the chance bulllllshiiiiita here


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## Viet

djsjs said:


> good news,no zuo no die. hope the war coming earlier.......even a small conflict would stop your economy growing for years...


Ha ha ha...do you love war?

A small conflict as you say can escalate into a full scale confrontation leaving hundred thousands of deaths and wounded behind, on both sides. Will mountain of dead Chinese bodies serve your interest to slow down Vietnam economy?

Is it worth for? I hope not all Chinese think like you.

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## A117CE

djsjs said:


> see your IQ.if I represent
> my country, you wouldnt have the chance bulllllshiiiiita here


so what? then i'll be killed by a chinese assassin?


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## A117CE

or maybe my hometown will be nuke D: , did you deploy an ICBM, please don't D:


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## Danny2014

djsjs said:


> good news,no zuo no die. hope the war coming earlier.......even a small conflict would stop your economy growing for years...



wtf you talking about? Go take some ESL courses zipperhead.

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## Carlosa

djsjs said:


> good news,no zuo no die. hope the war coming earlier.......even a small conflict would stop your economy growing for years...



And what do you think will happen to the chinese economy when scud missiles shut down the Yan Tian port (Shenzhen) Hong Kong port, other ports near the Pearl River delta, etc as well as steady missile attacks in the Shenzhen, Dongguan and Guangzhou area which is the export hub of the chinese economy?

And what do you think will happen when the south china sea becomes a shooting gallery which of course will cause ship insurance rates to skyrocket, meaning no more ships going and coming to china? Do you think the chinese economy will be affected?

I can also say, chinese factories usually run on small margins and with tight cash flow, it only takes a little disruption in the economy and tens of thousands of factories will shut down very fast.

Is that enough reasons for you zipperhead? Or are you a "semon kwai" (buffalo brain) like they say in Thailand?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> we were long fooled by chinese propaganda of peaceful rise and co-existence.
> in reality they just want to hide their intention of advancing their extreme nationalism and aggression. now we will hit back.



You got that right!!! In fact, chinese don't believe in a win win deal, they only believe in "they win, you lose" and the more you lose the better. When it comes to chinese people, there is the good, the bad and everything else in between like in all countries, but generally speaking, they are aggressive, untrustworthy and very very tricky. In china, chinese don't trust other chinese, they only trust family because they know themselves.

If you go to a hotel in Vietnam, you usually pay when you check out; in chinese hotels you always pay when you check in. Even when I go to a hotel steadily for years, they already know me, I stay in the hotel for weeks at a time, still pay up front, they would not even let a few hours pass by without paying. That would never happen in Vietnam. That little example says a lot about those 2 types of people.

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## Viet

Vietnamese surveillance posts in the South China Sea
some 35 such rigs are built, some have helipad, lighthouse and weather surveillance station.

the staffs monitor the sea lanes days and nights.

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## MarveL

*Vietnam military helicopter crash kills 16*

A Vietnamese military helicopter on a parachute training mission crashed close to the Vietnamese capital on Monday, killing 16 people on board and critically injuring five others, officials and state-controlled media said.

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## Viet

MarveL said:


> *Vietnam military helicopter crash kills 16*
> 
> A Vietnamese military helicopter on a parachute training mission crashed close to the Vietnamese capital on Monday, killing 16 people on board and critically injuring five others, officials and state-controlled media said.


terrible loss for the families
according to Lieutenant-general Vo Van Tuan, technical failure led to the fatal crash.





Technical error blamed for military chopper crash in Vietnam | Society | Thanh Nien Daily

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> terrible loss for the families
> according to Lieutenant-general Vo Van Tuan, technical failure led to the fatal crash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technical error blamed for military chopper crash in Vietnam | Society | Thanh Nien Daily




May the soldiers rest in peace!

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## Carlosa

MarveL said:


> *Vietnam military helicopter crash kills 16*
> 
> A Vietnamese military helicopter on a parachute training mission crashed close to the Vietnamese capital on Monday, killing 16 people on board and critically injuring five others, officials and state-controlled media said.



Rest in Peace !!!

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## MarveL

*18 soldiers died in Military Helicopter Crashes on Outskirts of Hanoi*

VietNamNet Bridge - A helicopter on a training mission crashed in Hanoi’s outlying district of Thach That this morning, killing 18 soldiers and seriously injuring three others.

The incident occurred at around 7:45am in Hamlet No.11 of Thach Hoa commune shortly after the helicopter took off from Hoa Lac airport.

The Russian-built Mi-171 was said to lose altitude and hit the ground before exploding near a local market. The blaze was put out at around 08.30.

On board the helicopter were 21 soldiers who were undertaking a parachute training mission.

Lieut. Gen. Vo Van Tuan, deputy chief of General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army, said relevant agencies launched an inquiry into the cause of the tragedy.

Initial investigations showed the crash was caused by technical failure.

Death toll has risen to 18. Authorities earlier put it at 16.

Sixteen soldiers were confirmed dead at the scene and five others were injured and admitted to military hospitals. However, two more soldiers died in hospitals, and the other three were in critical condition.
Nguyen Manh Hong, Vice Chairman of the Thach That District People's Committee, said emergency response fire fighting and medical teams are en route to the scene.

The site was cordoned off for investigation.

Some photos of the incident:


































Vietnamese airforce officials guard an area outside the crash site




the road scene is blocked





This file photo shows a Russian-made MI-171 helicopter in Vietnam's Ca Mau province on 10 March 2014



> _Most of the Vietnamese military's ageing fleet has been purchased from Russia.
> 
> A MIC-21 jet fighter crashed on the same day four years ago but the pilots managed to parachute to safety.
> 
> Another accident in 2008 saw five military pilots killed when their aircraft crashed on the outskirts of Hanoi._

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## BoQ77




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## Viet

Nice: Japan is offering ODA money to fund the build up of Vietnam coast guard.

Let hope Japan offers to finance new warships, too.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Nice: Japan is offering ODA money to fund the build up of Vietnam coast guard.
> 
> Let hope Japan offers to finance new warships, too.



Nice but I think they would it have to be Japanese made ships either made in Japan or made under Japanese license in order to be qualified for ODA financing.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> Let hope Japan offers to finance new warships, too.



I thought you said you make good money from your employment in Germany..... why do you still have this beggar's mentality?

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Nice but I think they would it have to be Japanese made ships either made in Japan or made under Japanese license in order to be qualified for ODA financing.


Yes you are right. That will be likely the case. Japan provides cheap money to Vietnam to buy its advanced but expensive coast guard vessels 

But anyway this is a remarkable move of the japanese government. Until recently Japan only provides ODA money to support economic development and social welfare. And now thanks to Xi Jinping and fcking oil rigs, Japan not only scraps the peaceful constitution but ODA policy.

Will be fantastic if they fund the build up of our navy. We urgently need more and bigger warships.

We are late so need to accelerate things.


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> I thought you said you make good money from your employment in Germany..... why do you still have this beggar's mentality?


My money is controlled by a superior instance: my wife 
I have money but parallelly I am a poor man.


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## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> My money is controlled by a superior instance: my wife



Hey, bro, can you post you and your wife's photo? I am curious and wish you best marriage, live to old age in conjugal bliss.


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## areal

Even japan has not too much money to build its own warships. This dream is so wet.
Forget what? Not long ago, Japan just suspended the ODA due to the non-acceptable corruption in Vietnam.
say at least, ODA is supposed to focus on economic development, not military sponsor.
say at least at least, even such ODA becomes OMA to let Vietnam build warships, Vietnam has any hope to return the debt in the future?


Viet said:


> Nice: Japan is offering ODA money to fund the build up of Vietnam coast guard.
> 
> Let hope Japan offers to finance new warships, too.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> My money is controlled by a superior instance: my wife
> I have money but parallelly I am a poor man.



Is your wife Viet or German? show pics. You need to adopt the western style of having separate bank accounts for husband and wife.


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## Viet

Edison Chen said:


> Hey, bro, can you post you and your wife's photo? I am curious and wish you best marriage, live to old age in conjugal bliss.


No, my ID will be exposed otherwise.
Thanks for your best wish.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yes you are right. That will be likely the case. Japan provides cheap money to Vietnam to buy its advanced but expensive coast guard vessels
> 
> But anyway this is a remarkable move of the japanese government. Until recently Japan only provides ODA money to support economic development and social welfare. And now thanks to Xi Jinping and fcking oil rigs, Japan not only scraps the peaceful constitution but ODA policy.
> 
> Will be fantastic if they fund the build up of our navy. We urgently need more and bigger warships.
> 
> We are late so need to accelerate things.



I agree, I'm not sure about the wisdom of getting financing that limits the choice of ships to something that is expensive and might not be the preferred design or ship size. I think VN would be better off building the ships themselves like its doing with the DN-2000 at $50 million a pop. We'll have to wait until there is more details about those ships.

I think VN needs to make quick decisions, select ships and get going with the building, can't spend 3 years to decide to order like they did with the Sigma ships. The country has the money available, they just need to divert it from projects that are not that necessary or are wasteful (plenty of those like spending $6 billion to make a new airport for HCMC rather than expanding the present airport which will be used for a golf course where some "people" will of course get some sizable black envelops, etc, etc).

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## visom

Viet said:


> She is vietnamese. Like many other vietnamese women, she is not only beautiful but smart. We have different banking accounts. *While she has full access to mine, I don't have to her*


Well that doesn't seem very fair... unless you are bad at spending money.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> She is vietnamese. Like many other vietnamese women, she is not only beautiful but smart. We have different banking accounts. While she has full access to mine, I don't have to her



What's the point of having two accounts if she has full access to both and you don't? you have too many girlfriends and concubines that your wife want to keep track of your spending?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I agree, I'm not sure about the wisdom of getting financing that limits the choice of ships to something that is expensive and might not be the preferred design or ship size. I think VN would be better off building the ships themselves like its doing with the DN-2000 at $50 million a pop. We'll have to wait until there is more details about those ships.
> 
> I think VN needs to make quick decisions, select ships and get going with the building, can't spend 3 years to decide to order like they did with the Sigma ships. The country has the money available, they just need to divert it from projects that are not that necessary or are wasteful (plenty of those like spending $6 billion to make a new airport for HCMC rather than expanding the present airport which will be used for a golf course where some "people" will of course get some sizable black envelops, etc, etc).


At present we have 40 patrol vessels. Now the government earmarks 540 millions USD for building 32 new Vietnam made ones.

Japan wants to provide an undisclosed number of Japan made vessels next year, too. So I guess those boats will be financed by ODA.

I haven't heard any details yet when we will build Sigma class warships. Nor the Gepard frigates.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> She has a job. The money she earns goes to her bank account
> 
> Exactly, concubine costs money. If your wife controls your spending, it's impossible to hide



Your wife don't let you have access to her account...... which might mean she is hiding her boyfriend gigolo??????


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> At present we have 40 patrol vessels. Now the government earmarks 540 millions USD for building 32 new Vietnam made ones.
> 
> Japan wants to provide an undisclosed number of Japan made vessels next year, too. So I guess those boats will be financed by ODA.
> 
> I haven't heard any details yet when we will build Sigma class warships. Nor the Gepard frigates.



I think the next step for the navy is to decide if they are going to exercise the licensing option that they have for another 4 Molniya class corvettes. People in the mp thread said that they are not going to because they want larger, around 1000 ton ships, but I think they should go for it, otherwise they are probably going to spend years getting something new going and in the meantime nothing happens.

Regarding Sigma / Gepard, they are probably going to wait to get delivery of the first Sigma to compare and decide, but I think they should go ahead now for a license for some Gepards and decide later if they want to license some Sigmas also. Their usual approach is very slow, everything takes for ever (typical bureaucratic approach), but I think now VN can't afford to waste time anymore.

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## Viet

memorial service for the soldiers, the victims of the helicopter fatal crash




















Deputy PM Hoang Trung Hai








General Phung Quang Thanh


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## areal

One comment: officers are too fat to protect Vietnam.


Viet said:


> memorial service for the soldiers, the victims of the helicopter fatal crash
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Deputy PM Hoang Trung Hai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General Phung Quang Thanh


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## Viet

news from the airforce

according to nationalinterest, an American bi-monthly international affairs magazine associated with the realist school of foreign policy thought, Vietnam airforce operates around 40 Flankers of various types, with another 20 on order from Russia. 







If Vietnam and China Went to War: Five Weapons Beijing Should Fear | The National Interest


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> news from the airforce
> 
> according to nationalinterest, an American bi-monthly international affairs magazine associated with the realist school of foreign policy thought, Vietnam airforce operates around 40 Flankers of various types, with another 20 on order from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Vietnam and China Went to War: Five Weapons Beijing Should Fear | The National Interest



Good article, but I wouldn't put much weight on their numbers for flankers, its not up to date.
Vietnam has 36 Flankers, not 40, 40 was the original number ordered, but 4 SU-27 were lost in accidents so the present number is 36:
12 SU-27
4 SU-30MKK
20 SU-30MK2

Vietnam has another 12 SU-30MK2 on order and there are rumors of an order for 12 SU-34 in which case it would be 24 on order but have to wait for confirmation. 

I'm looking forward for some SU-35's in the near future.......

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## Jlaw

Viet said:


> news from the airforce
> 
> according to nationalinterest, an American bi-monthly international affairs magazine associated with the realist school of foreign policy thought, Vietnam airforce operates around 40 Flankers of various types, with another 20 on order from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Vietnam and China Went to War: Five Weapons Beijing Should Fear | The National Interest



Not a very good article. All the things listed, China has those but much more in quantity and more advanced than Vietnam.

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## Edison Chen

Jlaw said:


> Not a very good article. All the things listed, China has those but much more in quantity and more advanced than Vietnam.



I suggest Vietnam give up building it's military, it's waste of money, whatever they build, it's gonna get destroyed. The more they spend on gun power, the less will be left for its civilians. They should spend money on education and infrastructure.

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## Jlaw

Edison Chen said:


> I suggest Vietnam give up building it's military, it's waste of money, whatever they build, it's gonna get destroyed. The more they spend on gun power, the less will be left for its civilians. They should spend money on education and infrastructure.



That would be the idea scenario. If I was leader of vietnam I would cut military budget by 50%, apologize to China and develop better relationship with China. Essentially I will be a good boy and reap rewards as China becomes stronger. When China becomes stronger, a good boy Vietnam will also become stronger.

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## Edison Chen

Jlaw said:


> That would be the idea scenario. If I was leader of vietnam I would cut military budget by 50%, apologize to China and develop better relationship with China. Essentially I will be a good boy and reap rewards as China becomes stronger. When China becomes stronger, a good boy Vietnam will also become stronger.



That's exactly what I was thinking. Just look at how the US helped EU and JP to reconstruct after WW2, I believe China would like to do the same, only if VN stop playing fire, they are too greedy.

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## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> That would be the idea scenario. If I was leader of vietnam I would cut military budget by 50%, apologize to China and develop better relationship with China. Essentially I will be a good boy and reap rewards as China becomes stronger. When China becomes stronger, a good boy Vietnam will also become stronger.



These baboons are known to be stubborn, our great advice will fall on deaf man's ears.

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## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> These baboons are known to be stubborn, our great advice will fall on deaf man's ears.



We know. That's why they will always be our number one prodigal son.


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## Viet

areal said:


> One comment: officers are too fat to protect Vietnam.


Well I see so despite you Chinese try hard to provoke Vietnam, we live in a peaceful time. Luckily. Hopefully it remains so. The soldiers and officers should not look hungry.


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## Viet

Edison Chen said:


> I suggest Vietnam give up building it's military, it's waste of money, whatever they build, it's gonna get destroyed. The more they spend on gun power, the less will be left for its civilians. They should spend money on education and infrastructure.


LOL Come on, you can admit just waiting for another opportunity to annex us, if we don't have a formidable army. Prove that you are peaceful people, then we can reduce military spending.


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## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> LOL Come on, you can admit just waiting for another opportunity to annex us, if we don't have a formidable army. Prove that you are peaceful people, then we can reduce military spending.



Look at my picture, my face, do I look like an aggressive person or war enthusiast even a little bit?


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## visom

Edison Chen said:


> I suggest Vietnam give up building it's military, it's waste of money, whatever they build, it's gonna get destroyed. The more they spend on gun power, the less will be left for its civilians. They should spend money on education and infrastructure.


In an ideal situation that would be a good idea, the problem is that Vietnam and China aren't on good terms and Vietnam does not have many true allies, it has to rely on its own strengths. 

I'm actually more upset that Vietnam seems to be investing lots of money in casinos, resorts, and other tourist attractions. I'm not an expert economist but I feel like that money is better invested elsewhere.

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## Edison Chen

visom said:


> In an ideal situation that would be a good idea, the problem is that Vietnam and China aren't on good terms and Vietnam does not have many true allies, it has to rely on its own strengths.
> 
> I'm actually more upset that Vietnam seems to be investing lots of money in casinos, resorts, and other tourist attractions. I'm not an expert economist but I feel like that money is better invested elsewhere.



I always believe a strong Asia is built on the common prosperity, so I will not refuse a rich VN. VN should learn from South Korea, just merge a few big companies to form a group corporation like Samsung, to participate in every field of industry. In this way you can concentrate limited money, and put it into good use by an efficient way. The resorts are not bad if you do not rely on it too much, money is too easy, people have no sense of competitiveness.

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## Carlosa

Edison Chen said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking. Just look at how the US helped EU and JP to reconstruct after WW2, I believe China would like to do the same, only if VN stop playing fire, they are too greedy.



The Vietnamese are too greedy? I think you've been listening to chinese government propaganda a bit too much.

Does it make sense to you that small, far weaker countries like vietnam and phillippines will risk a military conflict with china because they are "too greedy"? Do you ever think that maybe the big, powerful country is the greedy one? Isn't that the way it usually works? 

When you look at the map with the 9 dash lines and you see those lines right next to the malaysian and phillippino coastlines does that makes sense to you? Does it look like those countries are "greedy"? or maybe the dash lines represent the greed? Do you think its a coincidence that no country in the planet supports the 9 dash line? I would think that you are smart enough to figure that out.

Funny, when I go to china and talk to chinese people they always say that the chinese government is very bad and they don't believe anything they say, but if the government line is about nationalism and territory, oops..... now the government can be believed. I guess the sheep loves to follow the shepherd sometimes.



Edison Chen said:


> I always believe a strong Asia is built on the common prosperity, so I will not refuse a rich VN. VN should learn from South Korea, just merge a few big companies to form a group corporation like Samsung, to participate in every field of industry. In this way you can concentrate limited money, and put it into good use by an efficient way. The resorts are not bad if you do not rely on it too much, money is too easy, people have no sense of competitiveness.



Vietnam did exactly what you said, they followed the korean "chabol" model with their state owned enterprises, but the results were just the opposite. Vietnam and Korea are 2 different creatures, what works in one does not necessarily work on the other.

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## Carlosa

Jlaw said:


> That would be the idea scenario. If I was leader of vietnam I would cut military budget by 50%, apologize to China and develop better relationship with China. Essentially I will be a good boy and reap rewards as China becomes stronger. When China becomes stronger, a good boy Vietnam will also become stronger.



Actually, Vietnam has been a very good boy to china in the last few decades. The pro china faction in the vietnamese government made sure about that. They have placed relations with their brotherly comrades in the north above their national interest, but that didn't work out very well for Vietnam, did it?

Now there is probably going to be a change of direction and china will only have itself to blame if the vietnamese invite the americans in.



Edison Chen said:


> Look at my picture, my face, do I look like an aggressive person or war enthusiast even a little bit?



Actually, you are quite soft and moderate for chinese standards, quite nice.



visom said:


> In an ideal situation that would be a good idea, the problem is that Vietnam and China aren't on good terms and Vietnam does not have many true allies, it has to rely on its own strengths.
> 
> I'm actually more upset that Vietnam seems to be investing lots of money in casinos, resorts, and other tourist attractions. I'm not an expert economist but I feel like that money is better invested elsewhere.



All those investments in casinos, resorts, etc are private investments, mostly foreign. Actually, the government gets revenue from those operations, but no worries, the government has plenty of other unneeded projects such as ports and airports that don't ever get used, etc. If there are "black envelops" a project can surely be created.


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## Viet

Edison Chen said:


> Look at my picture, my face, do I look like an aggressive person or war enthusiast even a little bit?


No, you are a good guy. If I can have a wish: I wish the majority of Chinese are like you.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> No, you are a good guy. If I can have a wish: I wish the majority of Chinese are like you.



Ooops, I thought Edison was a cute girl, but turned out to be a boy........time to edit my post.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ooops, I thought Edison was a cute girl, but turned out to be a boy........time to edit my post.


Ahhh...are you sure?
Whatever whoever whichever he or she or bi...


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ahhh...are you sure?
> Whatever whoever whichever he or she or bi...



Why guys have to use girl pics for their avatars? Can't trust anything these days.....


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## NiceGuy

Edison Chen said:


> I suggest Vietnam give up building it's military, it's waste of money, whatever they build, it's gonna get destroyed. The more they spend on gun power, the less will be left for its civilians. They should spend money on education and infrastructure.





Jlaw said:


> That would be the idea scenario. If I was leader of vietnam I would cut military budget by 50%, apologize to China and develop better relationship with China. Essentially I will be a good boy and reap rewards as China becomes stronger. When China becomes stronger, a good boy Vietnam will also become stronger.


Dude, u should know that VNese just think u guys as cheap clowns always try to piss us off, we never think u r strong nation. Thats why we killed up to 21 Chinese illegal workers in the last riots and we know u dare not do any thing to us bcz China have no US daddy back up like in 1979.

In 1979, VN-China used same weapon, but China army still sustained high casualties and had to withdraw after few weeks , so, even VN-CHina still use same kind of Russia weapon now, but we still win bcz our people is good at fighting when even ur elite PLA is not, they willing to surrender to VN women militia to save their lives.

As long as US daddy refuse to support u like in 1979, then u have No chance to win VN. Keep pissing us off only bring more riots to China companies in VN and more Chinese get killed


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## Edison Chen

Carlosa said:


> Ooops, I thought Edison was a cute girl, but turned out to be a boy........time to edit my post.



 I thought my avatar is a guy, why do you think he is a girl? Look, this is me.









Carlosa said:


> The Vietnamese are too greedy? I think you've been listening to chinese government propaganda a bit too much.
> 
> Does it make sense to you that small, far weaker countries like vietnam and phillippines will risk a military conflict with china because they are "too greedy"? Do you ever think that maybe the big, powerful country is the greedy one? Isn't that the way it usually works?
> 
> When you look at the map with the 9 dash lines and you see those lines right next to the malaysian and phillippino coastlines does that makes sense to you? Does it look like those countries are "greedy"? or maybe the dash lines represent the greed? Do you think its a coincidence that no country in the planet supports the 9 dash line? I would think that you are smart enough to figure that out.
> 
> *Funny, when I go to china and talk to chinese people they always say that the chinese government is very bad and they don't believe anything they say, but if the government line is about nationalism and territory, oops..... now the government can be believed. I guess the sheep loves to follow the shepherd sometimes.*
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam did exactly what you said, they followed the korean "chabol" model with their state owned enterprises, but the results were just the opposite. Vietnam and Korea are 2 different creatures, what works in one does not necessarily work on the other.



When talking about the national interest especially on this forum, we are quite patriotic. When back in China forum, we criticize our government very hard.


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## Edison Chen

NiceGuy said:


> Dude, u should know that VNese just think u guys as cheap clowns always try to piss us off, we never think u r strong nation. Thats why we killed up to 21 Chinese illegal workers in the last riots and we know u dare not do any thing to us bcz China have no US daddy back up like in 1979.
> 
> In 1979, VN-China used same weapon, but China army still sustained high casualties and had to withdraw after few weeks , so, even VN-CHina still use same kind of Russia weapon now, but we still win bcz our people is good at fighting when even ur elite PLA is not, they willing to surrender to VN women militia to save their lives.
> 
> As long as US daddy refuse to support u like in 1979, then u have No chance to win VN. Keep pissing us off only bring more riots to China companies in VN and more Chinese get killed



You have low level of comprehension, niceguy. I was thinking who is worse, BoQ or you.


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## 55100864

Looks so familiar, r u the LOL game guy?


Edison Chen said:


> I thought my avatar is a guy, why do you think he is a girl? Look, this is me.
> 
> View attachment 38520
> 
> 
> 
> .


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## Edison Chen

55100864 said:


> Looks so familiar, r u the LOL game guy?



Hahaha, yes, the OMG guy, i'm a big fan


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## 55100864

Edison Chen said:


> Hahaha, yes, the OMG guy, i'm a big fan


So u r not him? Come on, tell me the truth, I will keep silent.


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## Edison Chen

55100864 said:


> So u r not him? Come on, tell me the truth, I will keep silent.



I'm not, but how I wish I was his level of playing!


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## Jlaw

Carlosa said:


> Actually, Vietnam has been a very good boy to china in the last few decades. The pro china faction in the vietnamese government made sure about that. They have placed relations with their brotherly comrades in the north above their national interest, but that didn't work out very well for Vietnam, did it?
> 
> Now there is probably going to be a change of direction and china will only have itself to blame if the vietnamese invite the americans in.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you are quite soft and moderate for chinese standards, quite nice.
> 
> 
> 
> All those investments in casinos, resorts, etc are private investments, mostly foreign. Actually, the government gets revenue from those operations, but no worries, the government has plenty of other unneeded projects such as ports and airports that don't ever get used, etc. If there are "black envelops" a project can surely be created.


Being a good boy and provoking and interfering in our affairs? Two face, You guys are not in the same league as the big boys. Leave the game playing to us. We know your two face tactics bdcause we taught you.
i hear too many viet guys like you wanting to get US on your side, Sure if you guys become democratic, allow US base in your country and always listen to your new daddy.
You have to understand whether you are China's boy or US' boy, you will always have a daddy who will spank you if you get out of hand. I hope you guys succeed in getting US on your side because I want to see you guys submitting to your new daddy who will love you long time--or until they realize trade with China is more important than fighting for your hopeless bunch.


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## Viet

Jlaw, you can´t intimidate us. Try harder! We only care of our business.

Ha Long Ship shipyard will build 12 more of such ships (2,000 tons) for the Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance.






4 of a total 30,000 steel fishing vessels are completed, built by SBIC shipyard.






3 of 53-meter Fast Supply and Intervention Vessel (FSIV) for SUISSE OUTREMER AG, built by PIRIOU shipyard (Vietnam).





2 service ships (76 m, 12,000 hp) will be built by Dung Quat shipyard for Vietsovpetro.

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## Carlosa

Edison Chen said:


> I thought my avatar is a guy, why do you think he is a girl? Look, this is me.
> 
> View attachment 38520
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When talking about the national interest especially on this forum, we are quite patriotic. When back in China forum, we criticize our government very hard.



Sorry man, in that little picture I got the feeling that you were a girl.


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## Carlosa

Jlaw said:


> Being a good boy and provoking and interfering in our affairs? Two face, You guys are not in the same league as the big boys. Leave the game playing to us. We know your two face tactics bdcause we taught you.
> i hear too many viet guys like you wanting to get US on your side, Sure if you guys become democratic, allow US base in your country and always listen to your new daddy.
> You have to understand whether you are China's boy or US' boy, you will always have a daddy who will spank you if you get out of hand. I hope you guys succeed in getting US on your side because I want to see you guys submitting to your new daddy who will love you long time--or until they realize trade with China is more important than fighting for your hopeless bunch.



Provocation and interference exactly defines how world opinion see the chinese actions in the south china sea, vietnamese are hardly alone on those views, myself, I'm Spanish and when I talk about this to my american and european friends, the opinion about chinese actions are quite unanimous. Only chinese fall for the government line out of a false sense of patriotism, they allow themselves to get used by their own government, a pity really.

By the way, the last time that daddy tried to spank VN in 1979 didn't workout too well for china, did it?

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Good article, but I wouldn't put much weight on their numbers for flankers, its not up to date.
> Vietnam has 36 Flankers, not 40, 40 was the original number ordered, but 4 SU-27 were lost in accidents so the present number is 36:
> 12 SU-27
> 4 SU-30MKK
> 20 SU-30MK2
> 
> Vietnam has another 12 SU-30MK2 on order and there are rumors of an order for 12 SU-34 in which case it would be 24 on order but have to wait for confirmation.
> 
> I'm looking forward for some SU-35's in the near future.......


4 went lost? what a fcking loss!
Yes, SU-35s will fit perfectly into Vietnam airforce doctrine. We need more modern jets urgently, but the Russians work at turtle speed, too slow


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## Carlosa

Edison Chen said:


> I thought my avatar is a guy, why do you think he is a girl? Look, this is me.
> 
> View attachment 38520
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When talking about the national interest especially on this forum, we are quite patriotic. When back in China forum, we criticize our government very hard.



Edison, you seem to be quite an smart man, why do you think that national interest should include empire building at the expense of other countries? The time of empires already passed, in the 21st century the new modality of empire is domination by financial and cultural means, USA is the best example of that and china was doing a good job at it until Mr. Xi came along and started empire building by means of aggression and force; that way of doing things will be the downfall of china, everybody will unite against china and china will lose in the end. Chinese people need to open their eyes before its too late, they are on a path to disaster.



Viet said:


> 4 went lost? what a fcking loss!
> Yes, SU-35s will fit perfectly into Vietnam airforce doctrine. We need more modern jets urgently, but the Russians work at turtle speed, too slow



Keep in mind that those SU-27's have been around for many years.

Actually, when it comes to aircraft, the Russians are delivering in quite ok timing, the ships is where they take forever. VN ordered 12 SU-30's last year and they are getting 4 this year and 8 next year, that's considered quite ok.

Its up to VN to make the decision to order the SU-35, its available for orders; hopefully soon.
What I've heard in the mp forum is that VN plans to order 12 SU-34's and 12 SU-35's, we'll see.

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## Carlosa

Amigo Viet, an idea for you or someone else reading this; Wikipedia has a nice page about the Vietnamese coast guard listing all the ships, etc, but the page for the Fisheries Department Surveillance Force is very basic and doesn't list anything. It would be nice if someone can make a table with the listing of ships like in the coast guard page. I can edit those listings but I can't make one from scratch. That would be a nice little project. I also see that you pick up good info about the new ships and I guess you get it from the vietnamese press, that's something I can't do since I can't read vietnamese, so I think you could be the right guy for that project if you are interested. Just a suggestion.

Here is the url: Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Edison Chen

Carlosa said:


> Edison, you seem to be quite an smart man, why do you think that national interest should include empire building at the expense of other countries? *The time of empires already passed, in the 21st century the new modality of empire is domination by financial and cultural means, USA is the best example of that and china was doing a good job at it until Mr. Xi came along and started empire building by means of aggression and force*; that way of doing things will be the downfall of china, everybody will unite against china and china will lose in the end. Chinese people need to open their eyes before its too late, they are on a path to disaster..



That's correct, in fact the US influence the world by the aggressive financial domination, they have the pricing power over natural resources like crude oil, agricultural product. The USD is world reserve currency with more than 80% trading volume, times larger than Euros and JP yen combined. They can also inject inflation by quantitative easing to developing market including China, ASEAN, etc, namely, the US is also maintaining its national interest at the expense of other country, but by a rather "civilized or obscure" way. If the QE pulled out, the ASEAN economy is badly affected, in fact, the capital has been flowing out from developing market since last year. The US economy is pretty good this year, Dow Jones stands on 17,000, they also added 288,000 jobs in June and the unemployment rate fell to 6.1% from 6.3% and the wages also grow by 6%. The better the US economy performs, the more probability the QE pulls out, the worse situation is for developing countries, but China is less affected due to our 4 trillion reserve. This is how strong the US is. But the US was not born with this, they developed to be rich by industrializing, they capitalize on world natural resources like any other country does. China is on a different phase of development, if the US is on the maturity stage, China is still on the mid developing stage, unlike the US, we still rely on resources too much, due to our economy structure, most of which are heavy manufacturing and natural resource consuming industry. China's economy is not yet high tech driven, our financial power is not yet dominating enough to give us more leverage in international affairs, China's currency is not even top mostly traded, we have real estate issue, shadow banking problem, and any other issue that every country could face. US also has a very superior location, with only 2 land border nations connected, and the Pacific and Atlantic as natural barrier. China is different, we have more than 15 adjacent neighbors with the border line, it's too hard to avoid conflicts, and as I can see, given that situation, China has been very modest. LOL, amigo! I don't think it's a way to disaster, even if so, I think ASEAN can't be totally immune from the bad consequence of domino effect after China's crash. Are you a Spanish origin while residents in VN now? I really hope more people like you can hold sidelines...or from a observer's point of view. Welcome to China anyway!

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## Carlosa

Edison Chen said:


> That's correct, in fact the US influence the world by the aggressive financial domination, they have the pricing power over natural resources like crude oil, agricultural product. The USD is world reserve currency with more than 80% trading volume, times larger than Euros and JP yen combined. They can also inject inflation by quantitative easing to developing market including China, ASEAN, etc, namely, the US is also maintaining its national interest at the expense of other country, but by a rather "civilized or obscure" way. If the QE pulled out, the ASEAN economy is badly affected, in fact, the capital has been flowing out from developing market since last year. The US economy is pretty good this year, Dow Jones stands on 17,000, they also added 288,000 jobs in June and the unemployment rate fell to 6.1% from 6.3% and the wages also grow by 6%. The better the US economy performs, the more probability the QE pulls out, the worse situation is for developing countries, but China is less affected due to our 4 trillion reserve. This is how strong the US is. But the US was not born with this, they developed to be rich by industrializing, they capitalize on world natural resources like any other country does. China is on a different phase of development, if the US is on the maturity stage, China is still on the mid developing stage, unlike the US, we still rely on resources too much, due to our economy structure, most of which are heavy manufacturing and natural resource consuming industry. China's economy is not yet high tech driven, our financial power is not yet dominating enough to give us more leverage in international affairs, China's currency is not even top mostly traded, we have real estate issue, shadow banking problem, and any other issue that every country could face. US also has a very superior location, with only 2 land border nations connected, and the Pacific and Atlantic as natural barrier. China is different, we have more than 15 adjacent neighbors with the border line, it's too hard to avoid conflicts, and as I can see, given that situation, China has been very modest. LOL, amigo! I don't think it's a way to disaster, even if so, I think ASEAN can't be totally immune from the bad consequence of domino effect after China's crash. Are you a Spanish origin while residents in VN now? I really hope more people like you can hold sidelines...or from a observer's point of view. Welcome to China anyway!



You said it very right, that's exactly the way it is. My point is, considering the complicated geographical situation that China has, being basically cut off by the first island chain, i can see why China wants to break from those shackles and achieve regional domination and control as a way of security insurance and after all, that's the historical model of how big powers behave, after all USA did some of that too, they took Hawaii just because they wanted, they created an incident with Spain in 1898 in order to create a war to eliminate the last european colonial post (Cuba) near them, took the Phillippines, made Puerto Rico a client state, established the Monroe doctrine and pretty much declared the Americas their domain where they do as they please and if some banana country opposes a US corporation, then there go the marines.

My point is, that's the old way of doing things, in the globalized economy of today and the globalized connectivity brought about by the internet, etc, everything gets exposed easily for what it is and all the players being very interdependent, can only go so far before they bring upon a counter reaction and in the end all parties lose. Actions of a limited scope can happen and are happening but more than that has a big risk.

The truth is, nobody really threatens China, nobody is going to invade China, there is no need to become paranoid about security, go on the offensive, threaten everybody in the region and then as a consequence of that, enemies and threats are really created and then all the bets are off about what the future can bring. What's the point of making an enemy out of Japan, push them to abandon their pacifist ways, play on the hands of the Japanese right wing (which are not nice people at all), how about if they become a nuclear power (something that they can do very easily)? How is that improving China's security?

China would be better off rising peacefully and let the other empire naturally decline itself and allow the region to achieve a stable balance. Win win always works better than I win, you lose.

I said disaster could come to China just because once you enter a certain dynamic, its not easy to control events or predict reactions, things can get out of hand easily, even if not intended and before you know it, bang, you have a big war in your hands and then everybody loses.

Yes, I'm Spanish living in Danang, Vietnam. I've been in southeast Asia for a number of years including China on and off, in fact I just came to Shenzhen a few days ago on a 3 week trip. Since I'm not vietnamese or chinese I try to stay objective about the situation and understand both sides, but I can get aggressive sometimes, ha ha, I have to watch it. Nice talking with you!

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Keep in mind that those SU-27's have been around for many years.
> 
> Actually, when it comes to aircraft, the Russians are delivering in quite ok timing, the ships is where they take forever. VN ordered 12 SU-30's last year and they are getting 4 this year and 8 next year, that's considered quite ok.
> 
> Its up to VN to make the decision to order the SU-35, its available for orders; hopefully soon.
> What I've heard in the mp forum is that VN plans to order 12 SU-34's and 12 SU-35's, we'll see.


some latest news from the russian cold front:

Vietnam is negotiating with Russia of buying more Yakhonts, SU-30s and a number of air defense systems, likely S-300 and so. Plus we will become #1 partner of Russia in the field of military technical cooperation in Southeast Asia.

Vietnam To Buy Additional Missiles Bastion-P From Russia

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## Carlosa

*China withdraws the oil rig from disputed waters*

HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — China on Wednesday moved an oil rig that it had deployed in a section of the South China Sea, triggering a dispute with Vietnam.

Beijing deployed the massive rig in early May close to the Paracel Islands, triggering a furious reaction in Hanoi and the most serious uptick in tensions in the waters in years.

Hanoi demanded Beijing withdraw the rig, and sent ships to the region to try and disrupt the operations. The Chinese move triggered protests in Vietnam and deadly anti-Chinese riots.

Beijing insisted it had done nothing wrong because the waters belonged to it.

The official Xinhua News Agency said Wednesday that the China National Petroleum Corp on Tuesday announced the end of the operation, citing the beginning of the typhoon season.

It said the rig would be relocated to operations close to China's Hainan Island.

Ha Le, deputy director of Vietnam's fisheries resources surveillance department, said China began removing the rig and escorting vessels Tuesday night, and by 8 am Wednesday it was 40 nautical miles northwest of its original location and continuing to move toward Hainan island.

"We don't know what will China do next following the removal of the Haiyang Shiyou oil rig 981," Le said "We will monitor the situation in the East Sea closely and be ready with other law enforcement agencies to defend our sovereignty," referring to the South China Sea.

Le said 30 vessels from Vietnam's coast guard and fisheries patrol forces that were sent to try to force the Chinese oil rig away will return to port to avoid the incoming Rammasun typhoon.

The Xinhua report said the company found oil and gas during the operation, but was assessing the data gathered before deciding its next move.

It has always been unclear whether the Beijing deployed the rig for genuine commercial reasons or as part of strategy of staking out its territorial claims in the region. When it announced the deployment, Beijing said it would withdraw it on Aug. 15.

The deployment of the rig was seen as a highly provocative move by China, which it claims nearly all of the South China Sea, bringing it into conflict with Vietnam, the Philippines and other nations.

Beijing's growing economic and military might is unnerving many countries in the region, as well as the United States, which is seeking closer ties with Southeast Asia to try to contain China.

The United States criticized the rig placement "as part of a broader pattern of Chinese behavior to advance its claims over disputed territory in a manner that undermines peace and stability in the region."

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *China withdraws the oil rig from disputed waters*
> 
> HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — China on Wednesday moved an oil rig that it had deployed in a section of the South China Sea, triggering a dispute with Vietnam.
> 
> Beijing deployed the massive rig in early May close to the Paracel Islands, triggering a furious reaction in Hanoi and the most serious uptick in tensions in the waters in years.
> 
> Hanoi demanded Beijing withdraw the rig, and sent ships to the region to try and disrupt the operations. The Chinese move triggered protests in Vietnam and deadly anti-Chinese riots.
> 
> Beijing insisted it had done nothing wrong because the waters belonged to it.
> 
> The official Xinhua News Agency said Wednesday that the China National Petroleum Corp on Tuesday announced the end of the operation, citing the beginning of the typhoon season.
> 
> It said the rig would be relocated to operations close to China's Hainan Island.
> 
> Ha Le, deputy director of Vietnam's fisheries resources surveillance department, said China began removing the rig and escorting vessels Tuesday night, and by 8 am Wednesday it was 40 nautical miles northwest of its original location and continuing to move toward Hainan island.
> 
> "We don't know what will China do next following the removal of the Haiyang Shiyou oil rig 981," Le said "We will monitor the situation in the East Sea closely and be ready with other law enforcement agencies to defend our sovereignty," referring to the South China Sea.
> 
> Le said 30 vessels from Vietnam's coast guard and fisheries patrol forces that were sent to try to force the Chinese oil rig away will return to port to avoid the incoming Rammasun typhoon.
> 
> The Xinhua report said the company found oil and gas during the operation, but was assessing the data gathered before deciding its next move.
> 
> It has always been unclear whether the Beijing deployed the rig for genuine commercial reasons or as part of strategy of staking out its territorial claims in the region. When it announced the deployment, Beijing said it would withdraw it on Aug. 15.
> 
> The deployment of the rig was seen as a highly provocative move by China, which it claims nearly all of the South China Sea, bringing it into conflict with Vietnam, the Philippines and other nations.
> 
> Beijing's growing economic and military might is unnerving many countries in the region, as well as the United States, which is seeking closer ties with Southeast Asia to try to contain China.
> 
> The United States criticized the rig placement "as part of a broader pattern of Chinese behavior to advance its claims over disputed territory in a manner that undermines peace and stability in the region."


That's a good news. Now we must accelerate to acquire military means to prevent them to come back.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Amigo Viet, an idea for you or someone else reading this; Wikipedia has a nice page about the Vietnamese coast guard listing all the ships, etc, but the page for the Fisheries Department Surveillance Force is very basic and doesn't list anything. It would be nice if someone can make a table with the listing of ships like in the coast guard page. I can edit those listings but I can't make one from scratch. That would be a nice little project. I also see that you pick up good info about the new ships and I guess you get it from the vietnamese press, that's something I can't do since I can't read vietnamese, so I think you could be the right guy for that project if you are interested. Just a suggestion.
> 
> Here is the url: Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Let me see. Though I am pretty sure our people will soon update the page.


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> That's a good news. Now we must accelerate to acquire military means to prevent them to come back.


Yeah, big storms r coming , they must run away before the storms crush their rig, their ships to pieces 

But they may come back after storm season end (October or November). SO, its time for VN to gain more support before the next round start.


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## Viet

two new missile Molniya corvettes, coded HQ-377 and HQ-378, built by Ba Son Shipyard for the navy

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## BoQ77

This baby cost 120,000 USD each

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## Viet

*Summary*: Microsoft is aligning Nokia's operations in markets where Windows Phone is successful. Lower costs in Vietnam relative to China are also a nice incentive to move manufacturing. Brazil and Mexico sites also get a bump.





By Larry Dignan for Between the Lines | July 17, 2014 -- 18:16 GMT (19:16 BST)

Follow @ldignan

Amid a large restructuring of its Nokia unit, Microsoft is also joining many technology companies moving manufacturing from China to Vietnam. Microsoft is also moving operations to Brazil and Mexico.

Microsoft on Thursday said it will lay off 18,000 employees, with many of them being factory workers in China. According to Stephen Elop, chief of Microsoft's devices unit, the software giant will move its device manufacturing and marketing operations to markets where Windows Phone has some traction.


*Read more: *Who else is Microsoft laying off? | Microsoft lays off 18,000 employees | Nokia's Android X2 experiment ends | Microsoft to discontinue Nokia Asha and S40 feature phones
Elop said in an email to employees that Microsoft will scale back engineering efforts in Beijing, but keep a team focused on affordable devices.

As for manufacturing, Microsoft's Nokia unit is swapping China for *Hanoi*, Vietnam, Brazil and Mexico.

Elop said:

_"We plan to right-size our manufacturing operations to align to the new strategy and take advantage of integration opportunities. We expect to focus phone production mainly in Hanoi, with some production to continue in Beijing and Dongguan. We plan to shift other Microsoft manufacturing and repair operations to Manaus and Reynosa respectively, and start a phased exit from Komaron, Hungary.

In short, we will focus on driving Lumia volume in the areas where we are already successful today in order to make the market for Windows Phone. With more speed, we will build on our success in the affordable smartphone space with new products offering more differentiation. We’ll focus on acquiring new customers in the markets where Microsoft’s services and products are most concentrated. And, we’ll continue building momentum around applications."_

Microsoft isn't the first tech giant to scale back its China manufacturing. To wit:

Samsung plans to shift production from China to Vietnam to preserve profit margins.
Intel has operations in Vietnam.
LG also has plants in Vietnam.
What's happened to China is simple. There's a middle class emerging and wages are going up. A factory worker in Hanoi makes $145 a month compared to $466 in Beijing, according to the Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO). Electricity and water costs are also lower in Hanoi. Meanwhile, Vietnam is aggressively courting technology companies and plans to have 30 percent of its industrial product deriving from high-tech.






Worker's monthly salary base
Topics: Hardware, Microsoft, Tech Industry


Microsoft moves Nokia manufacturing from China to Vietnam | ZDNet

My comment:

That is sad that we lag decades behind other peers in the region. The endless wars had taken toll on the economy and income.

Let´s hope that many other major international cooperations will follow Microsoft and also move production bases. I read, too, Samsung is going shutdown gradually all production facitities and relocate to Vietnam.

We need to catch up.

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## Edison Chen

Viet said:


> *Summary*: Microsoft is aligning Nokia's operations in markets where Windows Phone is successful. Lower costs in Vietnam relative to China are also a nice incentive to move manufacturing. Brazil and Mexico sites also get a bump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Larry Dignan for Between the Lines | July 17, 2014 -- 18:16 GMT (19:16 BST)
> 
> Follow @ldignan
> 
> Amid a large restructuring of its Nokia unit, Microsoft is also joining many technology companies moving manufacturing from China to Vietnam. Microsoft is also moving operations to Brazil and Mexico.
> 
> Microsoft on Thursday said it will lay off 18,000 employees, with many of them being factory workers in China. According to Stephen Elop, chief of Microsoft's devices unit, the software giant will move its device manufacturing and marketing operations to markets where Windows Phone has some traction.
> 
> 
> *Read more: *Who else is Microsoft laying off? | Microsoft lays off 18,000 employees | Nokia's Android X2 experiment ends | Microsoft to discontinue Nokia Asha and S40 feature phones
> Elop said in an email to employees that Microsoft will scale back engineering efforts in Beijing, but keep a team focused on affordable devices.
> 
> As for manufacturing, Microsoft's Nokia unit is swapping China for *Hanoi*, Vietnam, Brazil and Mexico.
> 
> Elop said:
> 
> _"We plan to right-size our manufacturing operations to align to the new strategy and take advantage of integration opportunities. We expect to focus phone production mainly in Hanoi, with some production to continue in Beijing and Dongguan. We plan to shift other Microsoft manufacturing and repair operations to Manaus and Reynosa respectively, and start a phased exit from Komaron, Hungary.
> 
> In short, we will focus on driving Lumia volume in the areas where we are already successful today in order to make the market for Windows Phone. With more speed, we will build on our success in the affordable smartphone space with new products offering more differentiation. We’ll focus on acquiring new customers in the markets where Microsoft’s services and products are most concentrated. And, we’ll continue building momentum around applications."_
> 
> Microsoft isn't the first tech giant to scale back its China manufacturing. To wit:
> 
> Samsung plans to shift production from China to Vietnam to preserve profit margins.
> Intel has operations in Vietnam.
> LG also has plants in Vietnam.
> What's happened to China is simple. There's a middle class emerging and wages are going up. A factory worker in Hanoi makes $145 a month compared to $466 in Beijing, according to the Japan External Trade Organization (JETRO). Electricity and water costs are also lower in Hanoi. Meanwhile, Vietnam is aggressively courting technology companies and plans to have 30 percent of its industrial product deriving from high-tech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Worker's monthly salary base
> Topics: Hardware, Microsoft, Tech Industry
> 
> 
> Microsoft moves Nokia manufacturing from China to Vietnam | ZDNet
> 
> My comment:
> 
> That is sad that we lag decades behind other peers in the region. The endless wars had taken toll on the economy and income.
> 
> Let´s hope that many other major international cooperations will follow Microsoft and also move production bases. I read, too, Samsung is going shutdown gradually all production facitities and relocate to Vietnam.
> 
> We need to catch up.



Glad to see Chinese worker's monthly salary rising.


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## xunzi

Get your facts straight. Samsung is expanding in China because we have a huge market and educated workforce. Microsoft Nokia is out because they can't compete with our firm and Samsung. So they try to go to your market. Nobody buys a Nokia anymore. It's chunk.

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## itaskol

glad to see，
good work china

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## cnleio

Nokia ... was ever a great cellphone company, now the little brother of Microsoft.
What about Win8 OS on Nokia Lumia phone, Can i running PC Apps on a Win8 phone?

I just check Nokia Win8 Lumia price 600~1000RMB cheaper than Samsung Android phone.


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## Aepsilons



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## xunzi

cnleio said:


> Nokia ... was ever a great cellphone company, now the little brother of Microsoft.
> What about Win8 OS on Nokia Lumia phone, Can i running PC Apps on a Win8 phone?
> 
> I just check Nokia Win8 Lumia price 600~1000RMB cheaper than Samsung Android phone.


It used to be a great phone before the Smartphone revolution. They fail to catch up, adopting the wrong OS. While Window 7 phone at the time is solid, it can't compete with IOS and Android feature. Window 8 Phone improved but its lack of application means nobody wants to waste $700 for a chunk when they can get rival OS phone for cheaper with far superior spec. Nokia is in trouble, that's why it is sold to Microsoft. Microsoft Window Lumia 1020, flagship, is about to become chunk now as rumors said it will end its life this year. 

Not a good choice to buy a Nokia now. I used to have a Nokia as my first phone. Lack of fashion, style, feature pretty much mean I say "goodbye" to this brand. I'm using Lenovo atm.

---

*Nokia Lumia 1020 will end life on September 14?*
Francis D'Sa | July 19, 2014, 19.07 pm IST








The Nokia Lumia
If the rumour mill is to be believed, the Nokia Lumia 1020, one of the well-known flagships of Nokia, will be seeing the end-of-life cycle by mid September.

@evleaks reported that Nokia Lumia 1020 will see an end-of-life by September 14. Microsoft is said to stop manufacturing the handset. However, retailers and distributors will continue selling them till their inventory is exhausted.

Nokia Lumia 1020 is said to be one of the best handsets sporting a near-DSLR camera. The handset has received the Windows Phone 8 firmware recently, but there is no confirmed information whether it will receive the Windows Phone 8.1 update.

The Nokia Lumia 1020 is presently available in India for Around Rs 48,000. The handset sports a 41MP PureView camera with HD recording, Carl Zeiss Tessar lens, Xenon flash, OIS, and backside-illuminated sensor. The display is a 4.5-inch ClearBlack AMOLED HD screen protected by a Corning Gorilla Glass 3. The processor is a 1.5GHz dual-core Snapdragon S4 with an Adreno 225 graphics processor, 2GB of RAM and 32GB of internal memory.

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## Aepsilons

Good to see that Microsoft and the subsidiary Nokia is diversifying their portfolios by investing also in Viet Nam. This makes sense at operational costs will be affordable. The underlying significance is this: "Are US-based firms beginning their migration of offshore sites from China to more favorable nations in South East / South Asia?" I think this is a significant pilot programme. If it succeeds, then there is no reason why other firms that are already based in China -- would not consider migrating their production sites in said market(s).

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## William Hung

cnleio said:


> Nokia ... was ever a great cellphone company, now the little brother of Microsoft.
> What about Win8 OS on Nokia Lumia phone, Can i running PC Apps on a Win8 phone?
> 
> I just check Nokia Win8 Lumia price 600~1000RMB cheaper than Samsung Android phone.



No you can't. Windows mobile OS is different to desktop version, which is also different to RT tablet version lol. 

I don't know why MS can't just make them all the same so PC apps can be installed on mobile. I am still waiting for that day. Many people will want to buy it for sure. 

Intel already makes Atom based processor for mobile phones. All Microsoft needs to do is ask them to make one based on x86 architecture. But that won't happen because MS is a dumb@ss.


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## cnleio

诺基亚（NOKIA） Lumia1320 3G手机 （白色）WCDMA/GSM only sell 1,200RMB








Black Flag said:


> No you can't. Windows mobile OS is different to desktop version, which is also different to RT tablet version lol.
> 
> I don't know why MS can't just make them all the same so PC apps can be installed on mobile. I am still waiting for that day. Many people will want to buy it for sure.
> 
> Intel already makes Atom based processor for mobile phones. All Microsoft needs to do is ask them to make one based on x86 architecture. But that won't happen because MS is a dumb@ss.


If Nokia Lumia phone's CPU not x86, of course can't running PC Apps.

Nobody wanna buy a smartphone lacking apps like Nokia Lumia, IOS & Android has many interesting apps and more funny.


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## William Hung

xunzi said:


> It used to be a great phone before the Smartphone revolution. They fail to catch up, adopting the wrong OS. While Window 7 phone at the time is solid, it can't compete with IOS and Android feature. Window 8 Phone improved but its lack of application means nobody wants to waste $700 for a chunk when they can get rival OS phone for cheaper with far superior spec. Nokia is in trouble, that's why it is sold to Microsoft. Microsoft Window Lumia 1020, flagship, is about to become chunk now as rumors said it will end its life this year.
> 
> Not a good choice to buy a Nokia now. I used to have a Nokia as my first phone. Lack of fashion, style, feature pretty much mean I say "goodbye" to this brand. I'm using Lenovo atm.
> 
> ---
> 
> *Nokia Lumia 1020 will end life on September 14?*
> Francis D'Sa | July 19, 2014, 19.07 pm IST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nokia Lumia
> If the rumour mill is to be believed, the Nokia Lumia 1020, one of the well-known flagships of Nokia, will be seeing the end-of-life cycle by mid September.
> 
> @evleaks reported that Nokia Lumia 1020 will see an end-of-life by September 14. Microsoft is said to stop manufacturing the handset. However, retailers and distributors will continue selling them till their inventory is exhausted.
> 
> Nokia Lumia 1020 is said to be one of the best handsets sporting a near-DSLR camera. The handset has received the Windows Phone 8 firmware recently, but there is no confirmed information whether it will receive the Windows Phone 8.1 update.
> 
> The Nokia Lumia 1020 is presently available in India for Around Rs 48,000. The handset sports a 41MP PureView camera with HD recording, Carl Zeiss Tessar lens, Xenon flash, OIS, and backside-illuminated sensor. The display is a 4.5-inch ClearBlack AMOLED HD screen protected by a Corning Gorilla Glass 3. The processor is a 1.5GHz dual-core Snapdragon S4 with an Adreno 225 graphics processor, 2GB of RAM and 32GB of internal memory.



If Microsoft ask Intel to make a x86 based mobile CPU and modify their mobile OS to be able run desktop software on their phones, it will be a BIG game changer. But they are dumb@ss.

Just like their 1020, it has the best phone camera in the industry. but they abandoned that camera and used inferior ones for their new flagship Lumia Icon.


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## Viet

xunzi said:


> Get your facts straight. Samsung is expanding in China because we have a huge market and educated workforce. Microsoft Nokia is out because they can't compete with our firm and Samsung. So they try to go to your market. Nobody buys a Nokia anymore. It's *chunk*.


you mean "junk", not chunk. it means totally different.
Microsoft is closing down the factory in Beijing and moving to Hanoi end of this year, along with 3,000 jobs.

Nokia baut 3000 Stellen in China ab - Umzug nach Hanoi

the new smartphones will be Microsoft ones, Nokia is history.
Samsung is expanding operations in Vietnam, too.

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## William Hung

cnleio said:


> 诺基亚（NOKIA） Lumia1320 3G手机 （白色）WCDMA/GSM only sell 1,200RMB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Nokia Lumia phone's CPU not x86, of course can't running PC Apps.
> 
> Nobody wanna buy a smartphone lacking apps like Nokia Lumia, IOS & Android has many interesting apps and more funny.



But MS can make it happen if they want to. 

Intel can now make very efficient and powerful Atom CPU for Windows 8 tablet. They also have now made mobile CPU for Android phones. So everything is there. All MS needs to do is ask them to make x86 based mobile CPU for their phone and many people will buy Nokia phones again.

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## cnleio

Even China HuaWei's 8-core Android phone can beat Nokia Lumia

*华为 荣耀 畅玩版（白色）真8核 移动版 TD-SCDMA/GSM 双卡双待 豪华套装版*
Also only 1,200RMB

MTK 8-core 1.4GHz CPU
2G RAM
8G ROM
5.5' IPS LCD
back 1300 and front 500 megapixel camera





















Black Flag said:


> But MS can make it happen if they want to.
> 
> Intel can now make very efficient and powerful Atom CPU for Windows 8 tablet. They also have now made mobile CPU for Android phones. So everything is there. All MS needs to do is ask them to make x86 based mobile CPU for their phone and many people will buy Nokia phones again.


I think Intel need to design new ultra-low power Atom CPU for smartphone's small Li-battery, not as big as laptop/ table PC's battery. It will be new x86 ultra-low power CPU.

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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Good to see that Microsoft and the subsidiary Nokia is diversifying their portfolios by investing also in Viet Nam. This makes sense at operational costs will be affordable. The underlying significance is this: "Are US-based firms beginning their migration of offshore sites from China to more favorable nations in South East / South Asia?" I think this is a significant pilot programme. If it succeeds, then there is no reason why other firms that are already based in China -- would not consider migrating their production sites in said market(s).


well said. that is it: Vietnam offers a lot of benefits for foreign companies to operate:

low production costs
low taxes
increasingly improved infrastructures
stable political environment, rare labor strike, no terrorism, no ethnic violence
strategic location in SEA
many FTAs: ASEAN, China, soon Korea, Japan (if not already), America (along with other members of TPP), Russia and EU

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## xunzi

Viet said:


> you mean "junk", not chunk. it means totally different.
> Microsoft is closing down the factory in Beijing and moving to Hanoi end of this year, along with 3,000 jobs.
> 
> Nokia baut 3000 Stellen in China ab - Umzug nach Hanoi
> 
> the new smartphones will be Microsoft ones, Nokia is history.
> Samsung is expanding operations in Vietnam, too.


Thank you, my friend. Nokia has no future in China, so it is a smart move for them to move to Vietnam where your people still enjoy Nokia. For us, it's about Android and IOS right now. Most of our developers-base China are Android pro. I am one, too. LOL




Black Flag said:


> If Microsoft ask Intel to make a x86 based mobile CPU and modify their mobile OS to be able run desktop software on their phones, it will be a BIG game changer. But they are dumb@ss.
> 
> Just like their 1020, it has the best phone camera in the industry. but they abandoned that camera and used inferior ones for their new flagship Lumia Icon.


When first start, x86 consumes too much power for mobile. It is not a choice at that moment because battery is still very limited in technology. Mobile-chipset is arm for power efficiency. Until Intel can makes mobile-x86 base chipset with same power consumption efficiency, it would not work. However, good news. Intel just finished work on '64bit for x86 smartphones. The key now is to lure developers make apps for Intel x86. Without mass adoption, impossible to make developers changing their profitable business on current ARM-base. I am one that hope Intel success because Intel chip is much more powerful than ARM-base.

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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Even China HuaWei's 8-core Android phone can beat Nokia Lumia
> .


China phone always have spyware inside. One day, ur sexy pics with some hot chicks suddenly upload on internet ,then ur wife will kill u


----------



## he-man

Due to satya nadella being indian??


----------



## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> well said. that is it: Vietnam offers a lot of benefits for foreign companies to operate:
> 
> low production costs
> low taxes
> increasingly improved infrastructures
> stable political environment, rare labor strike, no terrorism, no ethnic violence
> strategic location in SEA
> many FTAs: ASEAN, China, soon Korea, Japan (if not already), America (along with other members of TPP), Russia and EU




Yes. Japan, for example, has over 4,000 businesses in China. We have over 1,300 in the Philippines, over 1,100 in India, over 100 in Pakistan, hundreds in Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand. 

I the field of economics, businesses analyze the parameters of securities and risk. Is the current market at risk, what are the factors that can contribute to risk, is it statistically pliable to remain in a risky market? These are all issues that financial consultant(s) make in feasibility studies. 

Given the realities on the ground and the current dynamic with China and several of its investors, security concerns are factors that affect decision to relocate. As it stands, Japan has conducted dozens of feasibility studies on whether or not it is possible to relocate in proximate markets , what the costs are in relocation, the risks in new sites etc. 

And it is. Our success in Viet Nam and the Philippines alludes to the possibilities of re-orienting our production platforms from China to South East Asia were it would make financial / strategic sense. 

Either case, South East Asia would benefit from Japan's patronage. A mutual benefit, i would say.

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## William Hung

cnleio said:


> Even China HuaWei's 8-core Android phone can beat Nokia Lumia
> 
> *华为 荣耀 畅玩版（白色）真8核 移动版 TD-SCDMA/GSM 双卡双待 豪华套装版*
> Also only 1,200RMB
> 
> MTK 8-core 1.4GHz CPU
> 2G RAM
> 8G ROM
> 5.5' IPS LCD
> back 1300 and front 500 megapixel camera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Intel need to design new ultra-low power Atom CPU for smartphone's small Li-battery, not as big as laptop/ table PC's battery. It will be new x86 ultra-low power CPU.



Intel's newer x86 Atom CPU is as powerful and efficient as those ARM-base CPU used in Android phones and tablets. I think Intel now has the knowledge to make good x86 CPU for phones. But I think MS is too scare that these will be expensive because only a few manufacturer makes windows phone so small order for these cpu. They need to take the risk and see if x86 phone will be popular.


----------



## Aepsilons

@Viet , 

You will see that South Korea will follow suit. They too will begin relocating their production sites in South East Asia. 

I know for a fact that South Koreans have been conducting feasibility studies in South East Asia, following us in this.


----------



## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> China phone always have spyware inside. One day, ur sexy pics with some hot chicks suddenly upload on internet ,then ur wife will kill u


Just Google HuaWei first.



Black Flag said:


> Intel's newer x86 Atom CPU is as powerful and efficient as those ARM-base CPU used in Android phones and tablets. I think Intel now has the knowledge to make good x86 CPU for phones. But I think MS is too scare that these will be expensive because only a few manufacturer makes windows phone so small order for these cpu. They need to take the risk and see if x86 phone will be popular.


There's no any problem, bro !

If Intel really design new ultra-low power x86 CPU for smartphone, i think many China PC mainboard manufacturers will be happy to produce Windows smartphone, not only Microsoft.

The PC manufacturers in mainland of China can eat this CAKE.

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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Just Google HuaWei first.
> 
> .


After Google


*Huawei phones might contain Chinese government spyware - Howard Forums*
HowardForums: Your Mobile Phone Community & Resource - HowardForums Home › Forum › General › The Lounge
A month ago we mentioned India's suspicions that telecomm equipment from China might contain backdoors. There hasn't been any smoking ...
VN link.


> *Huawei đề xuất với Chính phủ Việt Nam các giải pháp xây dựng một ...*
> vozforums.com › Đại sảnh › Tin tức từ vozExpress
> 25-02-2014 - 3 bài đăng - ‎3 tác giả
> Ghét Huawei ở đầu tiên là cái Modem FTTH Tụi VNPT bắt phải dùng - mình ko có quyền cao nhất trên thiết bị đó và mình nghi 100% nó có cài Spyware. ... đang dùngthấy đề cái tên là iGate, hóa ra nó là hàng của Huawei à ..


mình nghi 100% nó có cài Spyware.: I doubt that 100% they (Huawei ) install spyware

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## William Hung

xunzi said:


> Thank you, my friend. Nokia has no future in China, so it is a smart move for them to move to Vietnam where your people still enjoy Nokia. For us, it's about Android and IOS right now. Most of our developers-base China are Android pro. I am one, too. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> When first start, x86 consumes too much power for mobile. It is not a choice at that moment because battery is still very limited in technology. Mobile-chipset is arm for power efficiency. Until Intel can makes mobile-x86 base chipset with same power consumption efficiency, it would not work. However, good news. Intel just finished work on '64bit for x86 smartphones. The key now is to lure developers make apps for Intel x86. Without mass adoption, impossible to make developers changing their profitable business on current ARM-base. I am one that hope Intel success because Intel chip is much more powerful than ARM-base.



It is also up to Microsoft, are they willing to modify and allow their mobile OS to run PC software? if they can make it happen, it will be a game changer. 

Now no manufacturers wants to take a risk and invest heavily into windows mobile because the demand is so low. MS/nokia needs to be the one to step up.



cnleio said:


> Just Google HuaWei first.
> 
> 
> There's no any problem, bro !
> 
> If Intel really design new ultra-low power x86 CPU for smartphone, i think many China PC mainboard manufacturers will be happy to produce Windows smartphone, not only Microsoft.
> 
> The PC manufacturers in mainland of China can eat this CAKE.



But it's up to Microsoft, they control how their mobile windows OS run. If they don't allow windows phone to run PC apps, then having x86 CPU is useless. But we can still hope hackers and dev find ways to run PC app.


----------



## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> After Google
> 
> 
> *Huawei phones might contain Chinese government spyware - Howard Forums*
> HowardForums: Your Mobile Phone Community & Resource - HowardForums Home › Forum › General › The Lounge
> A month ago we mentioned India's suspicions that telecomm equipment from China might contain backdoors. There hasn't been any smoking ...
> VN link.
> mình nghi 100% nó có cài Spyware.: I dounbt that 100% Huawei install spyware


Not only smartphone, HuaWei mainly produce HSDPA/WCDMA/EDGE/ GPRS/GSM, CDMA2000 1X EVDO/CDMA2000 1X, TD-SCDMA/ WiMAX/ 3G/ 4G communication base stations, Router, IMS/ Mobile Softswitch/ NGN NetWork etc.

When u catch up the phone in Vietnam, ur voice might through HuaWei's communication base station or server.

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## xunzi

Black Flag said:


> It is also up to Microsoft, are they willing to modify and allow their mobile OS to run PC software? if they can make it happen, it will be a game changer.
> 
> Now no manufacturers wants to take a risk and invest heavily into windows mobile because the demand is so low. MS/nokia needs to be the one to step up.


Their marketing suck. I don't see much hope for Window Phone, to be honest even though it is a lot better than when first release.


----------



## cnleio

Black Flag said:


> But it's up to Microsoft, they control how their mobile windows OS run. If they don't allow windows phone to run PC apps, then having x86 CPU is useless. But we can still hope hackers and dev find ways to run PC app.


What we lake for a Windows smartphone, just a ultra-low power x86 CPU from Intel.
If Intel can provide that ultra-low power x86 CPU by using Smartphone's Li-battery, We even can hake it to run Windows XP.

Didn't we install haked XP/Win7 OS on our PC in China ?


----------



## Aepsilons

You guys are all wrong. The best phone is the iPhone 5S, soon, the iPhone 6.



If you have the _'dolla dolla' then burn dem stash , yo_.


----------



## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @Viet ,
> 
> You will see that South Korea will follow suit. They too will begin relocating their production sites in South East Asia.
> 
> I know for a fact that South Koreans have been conducting feasibility studies in South East Asia, following us in this.



um Samsung and LG has already moved factories to vietnam. And the reason they are doin it is because Vietnam virtually is allowing them to be tax free. 

Basically, Vietnam has to obey the demands of these private company.

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## Aepsilons

Black Flag said:


> um Samsung and LG has already moved factories to vietnam. And the reason they are doin it is because Vietnam virtually is allowing them to be tax free.
> 
> Basically, Vietnam has to obey the demands of these private company.



That is just one example. They will eventually , or probably have begun, the movement of Hyundai / Kia Production to more favorable markets in South East Asia. Three countries are favorable : Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines.


----------



## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> You guys are all wrong. The best phone is the iPhone 5S, soon, the iPhone 6.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the _'dolla dolla' then burn dem stash , yo_.


NoNoNo... a WinXP/ Win7 OS smartphone is much more powerful than the IOS of Iphone5S or 6.

It will be a smart-laptop.


----------



## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> You guys are all wrong. The best phone is the iPhone 5S, soon, the iPhone 6.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the _'dolla dolla' then burn dem stash , yo_.



Iphone is only for dumb people. I heard the coming Iphone 6 might still only use a dual core CPU lol. 

But I like how they have lots of apps. And if you rich, u buy vertu phones.

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## Aepsilons

cnleio said:


> NoNoNo... a WinXP/ Win7 OS smartphone is much more powerful than the IOS of Iphone5S or 6.
> 
> It will be a smart-laptop.



I've never been a fan of those tho @cnleio . When i was in Japan i was a big supporter of everything Motorola. Now, I'm an Apple baby. Tho i will admit that the Samsung Galaxy S5 is nice, too. 



Black Flag said:


> Iphone is only for dumb people. I heard the coming Iphone 6 might still only use a dual core CPU lol.
> 
> But I like how they have lots of apps. And if you rich, u buy vertu phones.



I can understand some people who buy phones with pc capability, its cost effective, right. But for people who are ... more invested in having credible phone, they either stick with Iphone or Galaxy.

Plus, if i wanted a PC, i'll buy an Asus, Sony laptop. And a desk top on the side.

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## xunzi

Black Flag said:


> Iphone is only for dumb people. I heard the coming Iphone 6 might still only use a dual core CPU lol.
> 
> But I like how they have lots of apps. And if you rich, u buy vertu phones.


It is true Iphone design simplistic is for lack of tech savy people. LOL


----------



## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> It is true Iphone design simplistic is for lack of tech savy people. LOL



Simplicity is best, sometimes. Plus, proponents like the _chic _design. It fits well with the Coach i-phone covers, too.


----------



## cnleio

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I've never been a fan of those tho @cnleio . When i was in Japan i was a big supporter of everything Motorola. Now, I'm an Apply baby. Tho i will admit that the Samsung Galaxy S5 is nice, too.


The Apps on the PC, now is still larger than on Android & IOS. If there WinXP/ Win7 OS smartphone appear, i believe ppl will welcome it. 

The only problem is Intel's ultra-low power x86 CPU, we lack it. Curret x86 Atom CPU need more power consumption, only for laptop. If Intel can provide lower power consumption of x86 CPU, then WinXP / Win7 smartphone will come ture.

All PC mainboard manufacturers can produce Windows phone.

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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Simplicity is best, sometimes. Plus, proponents like the _chic _design. It fits well with the Coach i-phone covers, too.


Simplicity in the sense that it is design for women and teenagers who are less tech savvy. LOL

That case is FUGLY, man! DISGUSTING! LOL Why would you buy a BULKY ugly, old case if you got a "thin phone"? You destroy the slim and thin design beauty of the phone with that case. Usually I see old couple or middle-age men and women used that case over here. LOL


----------



## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> Simplicity in the sense that it is design for women and teenagers who are less tech savvy. LOL
> 
> That case is FUGLY, man! DISGUSTING! LOL Why would you buy a BULKY ugly, old case if you got a "thin phone"? You destroy the slim and thin design beauty of the phone with that case. Usually I see old couple or middle-age men and women used that case over here. LOL



Its stylish , my man. I like my designer styles, my man.


----------



## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That is just one example. They will eventually , or probably have begun, the movement of Hyundai / Kia Production to more favorable markets in South East Asia. Three countries are favorable : Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines.



Bro you are too optimistic about these S Korea companies move to SEA. The best I can describe it is human exploitation and it won't be sustainable in the long run. 

For example, do you know how much tax break and tax discount Vietnam is giving to Samsung? it is so low it is funny. 

The VN govt can't deal with unemployment rate so they have to depend on foreign companies to move in. But VN still is not an ideal country to invest in, due to poor infrastructure, lack of supporting industry etc. I pretty sure you can find similar reports from Japanese companies looking to invest in VN. 

The best way VN govt can lure them in is to give them ridiculous low tax rate and other incentives. Add in the fact that S Korea companies only interested in the extremely low wages in VN and you'll see that it won't be sustainable.


----------



## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Its stylish , my man. I like my designer styles, my man.


Come on man, that case cover totally kill the beautiful thin and slim design of modern smartphone! My man, don't boast that case in front of young girls over here. You will get a laugh at even though it offers better drop resistant quality than slim case. LOL LOL


----------



## Aepsilons

pshh, clearly you don't know the meaning of taste.


----------



## xunzi

I don't get why people buy this beautiful thin phone, name brand and they use this totally UGLY, BULKY case that cover the phone entirely. LOLOL WHY? LOL

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## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> I don't get why people buy this beautiful thin phone, name brand and they use this totally UGLY, BULKY case that cover the phone entirely. LOLOL WHY? LOL



That's just _your _opinion. 



xunzi said:


> I don't get why people buy this beautiful thin phone, name brand and they use this totally UGLY, BULKY case that cover the phone entirely. LOLOL WHY? LOL



By the way, the coach cover isn't that expensive. Its original price is like around $85.00, but on sale, you can get that baby for a steal at $25.00.


----------



## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That's just _your _opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, the coach cover isn't that expensive. Its original price is like around $85.00, but on sale, you can get that baby for a steal at $25.00.


I like glass case if your intention is to show off the brand and thinness of your smartphone.


----------



## A.P. Richelieu

cnleio said:


> The Apps on the PC, now is still larger than on Android & IOS. If there WinXP/ Win7 OS smartphone appear, i believe ppl will welcome it.
> 
> The only problem is Intel's ultra-low power x86 CPU, we lack it. Curret x86 Atom CPU need more power consumption, only for laptop. If Intel can provide lower power consumption of x86 CPU, then WinXP / Win7 smartphone will come ture.
> 
> All PC mainboard manufacturers can produce Windows phone.



They have been trying, and trying and been failing and failing...
The apps on PC are not suitable for a touchscreen oriented Smartphone,
and there is little reason for people to port, due to a very limited market.
Microsoft is an also-ran.

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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That's just _your _opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, the coach cover isn't that expensive. Its original price is like around $85.00, but on sale, you can get that baby for a steal at $25.00.


I buy my case for only $7 with FREE premium film strip to cover the front, not on sale. On sale, it would be only $2 buck. LOL


----------



## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> I like glass case if your intention is to show off the brand and thinness of your smartphone.



I had a top glass cover placed on my phone, too. Shock protection.


----------



## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> pshh, clearly you don't know the meaning of taste.



But his phone does not have a case on


----------



## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> I buy my case for only $7 with FREE premium film strip to cover the front, not on sale. On sale, it would be only $2 buck. LOL



Because _its not_ Coach. I don't buy non-designer brands, btw.


----------



## William Hung

xunzi said:


> I don't get why people buy this beautiful thin phone, name brand and they use this totally UGLY, BULKY case that cover the phone entirely. LOLOL WHY? LOL



I think Nihonjin1051 is the kinda of guy that walks around with that waist pouch thing, the type that middle aged tourist always carry. 

right Nihonjin1051?

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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Because _its not_ Coach. I don't buy non-designer brands, btw.


Who care about the cover brand. People want to know my phone model and brand. Not the cover brand. LOL I got a lot of people asking where I got my case. It is a secret! They always say WOW and how beautiful it is!


----------



## Aepsilons

Black Flag said:


> I think Nihonjin1051 is the kinda of guy that walks around with that waist pouch thing, the type that middle aged tourist always carry.
> 
> right Nihonjin1051?



LOL, what? Heck no. It fights right inside my pockets, my man.



xunzi said:


> Who care about the cover brand. People want to know my phone model and brand. Not the cover brand. LOL I got a lot of people asking where I got my case. It is a secret! They always say WOW and how beautiful it is!



LOL!!!


----------



## xunzi

Black Flag said:


> I think Nihonjin1051 is the kinda of guy that walks around with that waist pouch thing, the type that middle aged tourist always carry.
> 
> right Nihonjin1051?


LOL




LOL

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## Aepsilons

If that's me, then....


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## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> I don't get why people buy this beautiful thin phone, name brand and they use this totally UGLY, BULKY case that cover the phone entirely. LOLOL WHY? LOL



I agree with you. Some cases really bulky and ugly ..
btw, Window powered smartphone really smart, I remembered I ever used Window phone 2002, 2003se ... by HTC, Mitac, Qtek, ...

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## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> I agree with you. Some cases really bulky and ugly ..
> btw, Window powered smartphone really smart, I remembered I ever used Window phone 2002, 2003se ... by HTC, Mitac, Qtek, ...


Our friend @Nihonjin1051 is not aware of cover style. He's too focus on brand and totally miss the point of buying a thin and slim smartphone. We hope he understands now.


----------



## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> Our friend @Nihonjin1051 is not aware of cover style. He's too focus on brand and totally miss the point of buying a thin and slim smartphone. We hope he understands now.



The beauty of having the iphone is that you can remove the cover anytime you want. By a simple flick of the side. I mean, i do it all the time. When i'm out, people see my phone and cover and they always say, "Wow, that looks really good." Eventually when its time for me to upgrade to iphone 6, ill also buy another cover for it too.


----------



## William Hung

xunzi said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> LOL



Even he looks too stylist for nihonjin. I was thinking about this:

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## Aepsilons

Black Flag said:


> But his phone does not have a case on



The beauty of it all, Black Flag, is that you can easily remove the cover anytime you want. Like this guy. I mean, what i do sometimes is switch it around. A little variety is good..lol



Black Flag said:


> Even he looks too stylist for nihonjin. I was thinking about this:




Maybe that's you, Black


----------



## xunzi

Black Flag said:


> Even he looks too stylist for nihonjin. I was thinking about this:


That looks like his father. Like father, like son! LOL


Nihonjin1051 said:


> The beauty of having the iphone is that you can remove the cover anytime you want. By a simple flick of the side. I mean, i do it all the time. When i'm out, people see my phone and cover and they always say, "Wow, that looks really good." Eventually when its time for me to upgrade to iphone 6, ill also buy another cover for it too.


When you remove cover in public, people will notice that you are trying to show off and that is a turn off. The key to boasting your phone without showing your hand is through these thin transparent cover. 99 out of 100, girls walk by and will ask for you out! Believe me. LOL


----------



## qwerrty

nokia had another chace to resurrect, but they chose microsoft. lol. they just keep making stupid mistakes again and again


----------



## Aepsilons

Some Coach covers for Iphone:













for the bikers, this is the i-bike , coach brand cover













xunzi said:


> When you remove cover in public, people will notice that you are trying to show off and that is a turn off. The key to boasting your phone without showing your hand is through these thin transparent cover. 99 out of 100, girls walk by and will ask for you out! Believe me. LOL



LOL, I don't think i need advice from you in how to get a girl, my man. 

BTW, You'll be very very surprised how easily you can get the ladies' digits when you are a frequent buyer at Coach outlets. 

Start of at Coach , then meet up at cafe shops, then see where it goes. Who knows Xunzi you might get somethin somethin...


----------



## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The beauty of it all, Black Flag, is that you can easily remove the cover anytime you want. Like this guy. I mean, what i do sometimes is switch it around. A little variety is good..lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's you, Black



No thats not me, he is using an Iphone 5 with a caoch case. He also looks like a lecturer on a weekend stroll.

Btw, if the case is so stylist, you wouldn't need to remove it.


----------



## cirr

I see our neighbours to the south are beginning pick up some crumbs left behind by China。

By opening massive and most advanced chip manufacturing facilities in China, Samsung is fast moving up the value chain in its biggest market.

Smart move by the Koreans。


----------



## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Some Coach covers for Iphone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the bikers, this is the i-bike , coach brand cover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, I don't think i need advice from you in how to get a girl, my man.
> 
> BTW, You'll be very very surprised how easily you can get the ladies' digits when you are a frequent buyer at Coach outlets.
> 
> Start of at Coach , then meet up at cafe shops, then see where it goes. Who knows Xunzi you might get somethin somethin...


 
What kind of girls are you hanging around with??? are they those Japanese girls with very weird fetishes? because normal girls don't care about phone case lol.


----------



## Aepsilons

Black Flag said:


> No thats not me, he is using an Iphone 5 with a caoch case. He also looks like a lecturer on a weekend stroll.
> 
> Btw, if the case is so stylist, you wouldn't need to remove it.



That's like my style. Very similar to my style. Tho, i wouldn't wear a sports jacket. 



Black Flag said:


> What kind of girls are you hanging around with??? are they those Japanese girls with very weird fetishes? because normal girls don't care about phone case lol.



I live in South Jersey, my man. The type of girls are Italian-Americans. Guidas, as they call them selves. LOL



qwerrty said:


> nokia had another chace to resurrect, but they chose microsoft. lol. they just keep making stupid mistakes again and again



It was a merger acquisition.

The Real Reason Microsoft Bought Nokia. Transaction Costs - Forbes


----------



## cirr

It is high time for Sansumg and the like to move their low value added and highly polluting manufacturing plants to backward countries like Vietnam. China demands the best eco-friendly high-tech the world can offer.

*China’s Hisense accelerates its forays into the Japanese TV market, which Samsung gave up*

2014/07/21 By Seo Hyeong-seok










Hisense, a Chinese electronics maker, is constantly knocking on the door of the Japanese TV market. Its product lineup seems to be expanding from low-end products to large premium products. In the Japanese TV market, nicknamed the ‘graveyard of foreign products,’ which even Samsung Electronics gave up, public attention is paid to the challenge of this Chinese company. 

According to industry insiders on July 20, Hisense recently released a 50-inch full HD (1920×1080) LED TV and began to sell it in the Japanese market. It comes with the built-in tuner for BS (broadcasting satellite) and CS (communication satellite) as well as for terrestrial, and provides the recording function using the HDD and USB memory. All the chipsets and software of the TV are procured in Japan, and it is rated as accurately targeting consumer propensities. It is priced at ￥70,000 (about KRW700,000), cheaper than Japanese counterparts selling for ￥100,000 (about KRW1 million). 

Hisense introduced 14 TV models in a bid to expand its business in Japan. Soon after the company entered the Japanese market at the end of 2010, it released 20~30-inch low-end products, and expanded its product lineup to include 50-inch products and is now competing with the premium products of Japanese makers. As its distribution structure focuses on large electronic product stores like Yodobashi Camera and Internet shopping malls, Hisense reduced its margins. Its 50-inch products can be purchased at prices of 40-inch Japanese products. Its price competitiveness is its most powerful weapon. 

Consumers are favorably inclined towards Hisense products. As they have all the functions reflecting the Japanese environment, and their prices are affordable, they are good choices in the low-end segment. In Amazon Japan, a Japanese Internet shopping mall, both the 24-inch and 32-inch model received an average of over 4 points on a five-point scale, and the 24-inch model is also faring well in Rakuten thanks to its low ‘price.’ Some Japanese consumers are complaining about their accessories like packaging and support fixtures that are inferior to those of Japanese makers, but they are generally satisfied with the TV itself. 

Hisense’s TV business in Japan is indicative of the rising status of Chinese TVs. According to a market research firm Display Search, in the flat panel TV market, Hisense’s Q1 share was 6.4%, ranked No. 4 in the world following Sony with 6.8%. In 2012 and 2013, it reduced its gap from Sony to 3.1% and 2.3% respectively, and the market forecasts that Hisense may overtake Sony this year. 

Korean companies are watching how things are developing. “Chinese companies and Samsung Electronics are targeting different TV markets,” said Yoon Boo-geun, CEO of the Consumer Electronics (CE) Division of Samsung Electronics, on his return from his business trip to Africa last Sunday. “We are not very concerned about it.” He flatly dismissed the misgivings about the price dumping of Chinese makers. If Hisense yields good results in the Japanese market, it cannot but get on the nerves of Samsung Electronics, which withdrew from the Japanese market back in 2007 as it could not endure competition. It will be the same for LG Electronics, which is competing in the Japanese market in all products ranging from low-end to premium. 

The key is the UHD TV. Hisense has not released any UHD TV in Japan, but according to Display Search, Hisense is a global powerhouse ranked No. 2 in the world in UHD TVs in the first quarter of this year. “LG Electronics introduced a 4K UHD TV in Japan and Japanese companies are also concentrating on it,” said an industry insider. “The TV industry is highly interested in whether Hisense’s challenge in Japan will lead to ‘low-priced UHD TVs’ and what kind of results it will produce.” 

Seo Hyeong-seok | hsseo@etnews.com 

중국 하이센스, 삼성이 포기한 일본 TV 시장 공략 가속 

<중국 전자업체 하이센스의 일본 법인 홈페이지(hisense.co.jp). 14개의 LED TV를 20인치 대 보급형부터 50인치 대 프리미엄 제품까지 갖춰 판매하고 있다.> 

중국 전자업체 하이센스가 일본 TV 시장에 지속적으로 문을 두드리고 있다. 출시 제품도 보급형 중심에서 대형 프리미엄으로 확대하는 모양새다. ‘외산의 무덤’이라 불리며 삼성전자도 포기한 일본 TV 시장에서 중국 업체의 도전이 주목된다. 

20일 업계에 따르면 하이센스는 최근 일본 시장에 50인치 풀HD(1920×1080)급 LED TV를 출시해 판매에 들어갔다. 지상파는 물론 BS(방송위성)•CS(통신위성)용 튜너를 내장했으며, 하드디스크(HDD)와 USB 메모리를 이용한 녹화도 지원한다. TV에 내장된 칩세트와 소프트웨어(SW)도 모두 일본에서 조달하며 소비자 성향을 정확히 겨냥했다는 평가다. 가격은 7만엔(약 70만원) 후반으로 10만엔(약 100만원)대인 동급 일본 업체 제품보다 저렴하다. 

하이센스는 일본에서 14개 TV 모델을 선보이며 사업을 넓히고 있다. 2010년 말 일본 진출 초기 20~30인치 대 보급형 제품을 내놓다가 지난해부터 50인치 대 제품으로 확대하며 일본 업체의 프리미엄 제품과 경쟁하고 있다. 요도바시카메라 등 대형 전자제품 양판점과 인터넷 쇼핑몰 중심의 유통구조로 마진을 줄여 일본 제품의 40인치 대 가격으로 50인치 대 제품을 구입할 수 있는 가격 경쟁력이 무기다. 

소비자도 호의적이다. 일본 환경에 맞는 기능들을 모두 갖춘 데다 가격도 저렴해 보급형으로 손색없기 때문이다. 일본 인터넷쇼핑몰 아마존 재팬에서 24인치와 32인치 모델 모두 5점 만점에 4점 이상의 평균 점수를 얻고 있으며, 라쿠텐에서도 24인치 모델이 ‘가격’을 무기로 순항하고 있다. 포장, 지지대와 같은 액세서리 등 일본 업체보다 부족한 부분에 대한 불만도 있지만 대체적으로 TV에 대해서는 만족한다는 평가다. 

하이센스의 일본 내 TV 사업은 높아지는 중국 TV의 위상을 보여준다. 시장조사업체 디스플레이서치에 따르면 평판 TV 시장에서 하이센스의 올해 1분기 점유율은 6.4%로 6.8%인 소니에 이어 세계 4위를 기록됐다. 2012년과 지난해에는 소니와의 격차를 각각 3.1%, 2.3%로 줄이며 올해 역전도 바라볼 수 있다는 것이 시장의 전망이다. 

국내 업체들은 관망하고 있다. 윤부근 삼성전자 소비자가전(CE) 부문 사장은 지난주 일요일 아프리카 출장에서 귀국하며 “중국 업체들과 삼성전자의 TV 시장 타깃이 다르다”며 “크게 걱정하지 않는다”고 중국발 저가공세 우려를 일축한바 있다. 하지만 하이센스가 일본 시장에서 성과를 낸다면 2007년 일본 시장에서 업체와의 경쟁을 견디지 못해 철수한 삼성전자로서는 신경이 쓰일 수밖에 없다. 일본에서 보급형에서 프리미엄까지 전 제품을 갖추고 경쟁 중인 LG전자도 마찬가지다. 

관건은 초고화질(UHD) TV다. 하이센스가 일본에는 UHD TV를 내놓지 않고 있지만, 디스플레이서치 조사 기준 올해 1분기 UHD TV 세계 2위를 차지한 글로벌 강자이기 때문이다. 업계 관계자는 “외산 경쟁사인 LG전자가 4K UHD TV를 일본에 내놓고 일본 업체들도 이를 주력으로 하고 있다”며 “하이센스의 일본 도전이 ‘저가 UHD TV’로 이어져 어떤 결과를 낼지 TV 업계의 관심이 크다”고 말했다. 

서형석기자 | hsseo@etnews.com


----------



## Aepsilons

cirr said:


> It is high time for Sansumg and the like to move their low value added and highly polluting manufacturing plants to backward countries like Vietnam. China demands the best eco-friendly high-tech the world can offer.
> 
> *China’s Hisense accelerates its forays into the Japanese TV market, which Samsung gave up*
> 
> 2014/07/21 By Seo Hyeong-seok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hisense, a Chinese electronics maker, is constantly knocking on the door of the Japanese TV market. Its product lineup seems to be expanding from low-end products to large premium products. In the Japanese TV market, nicknamed the ‘graveyard of foreign products,’ which even Samsung Electronics gave up, public attention is paid to the challenge of this Chinese company.
> 
> According to industry insiders on July 20, Hisense recently released a 50-inch full HD (1920×1080) LED TV and began to sell it in the Japanese market. It comes with the built-in tuner for BS (broadcasting satellite) and CS (communication satellite) as well as for terrestrial, and provides the recording function using the HDD and USB memory. All the chipsets and software of the TV are procured in Japan, and it is rated as accurately targeting consumer propensities. It is priced at ￥70,000 (about KRW700,000), cheaper than Japanese counterparts selling for ￥100,000 (about KRW1 million).
> 
> Hisense introduced 14 TV models in a bid to expand its business in Japan. Soon after the company entered the Japanese market at the end of 2010, it released 20~30-inch low-end products, and expanded its product lineup to include 50-inch products and is now competing with the premium products of Japanese makers. As its distribution structure focuses on large electronic product stores like Yodobashi Camera and Internet shopping malls, Hisense reduced its margins. Its 50-inch products can be purchased at prices of 40-inch Japanese products. Its price competitiveness is its most powerful weapon.
> 
> Consumers are favorably inclined towards Hisense products. As they have all the functions reflecting the Japanese environment, and their prices are affordable, they are good choices in the low-end segment. In Amazon Japan, a Japanese Internet shopping mall, both the 24-inch and 32-inch model received an average of over 4 points on a five-point scale, and the 24-inch model is also faring well in Rakuten thanks to its low ‘price.’ Some Japanese consumers are complaining about their accessories like packaging and support fixtures that are inferior to those of Japanese makers, but they are generally satisfied with the TV itself.
> 
> Hisense’s TV business in Japan is indicative of the rising status of Chinese TVs. According to a market research firm Display Search, in the flat panel TV market, Hisense’s Q1 share was 6.4%, ranked No. 4 in the world following Sony with 6.8%. In 2012 and 2013, it reduced its gap from Sony to 3.1% and 2.3% respectively, and the market forecasts that Hisense may overtake Sony this year.
> 
> Korean companies are watching how things are developing. “Chinese companies and Samsung Electronics are targeting different TV markets,” said Yoon Boo-geun, CEO of the Consumer Electronics (CE) Division of Samsung Electronics, on his return from his business trip to Africa last Sunday. “We are not very concerned about it.” He flatly dismissed the misgivings about the price dumping of Chinese makers. If Hisense yields good results in the Japanese market, it cannot but get on the nerves of Samsung Electronics, which withdrew from the Japanese market back in 2007 as it could not endure competition. It will be the same for LG Electronics, which is competing in the Japanese market in all products ranging from low-end to premium.
> 
> The key is the UHD TV. Hisense has not released any UHD TV in Japan, but according to Display Search, Hisense is a global powerhouse ranked No. 2 in the world in UHD TVs in the first quarter of this year. “LG Electronics introduced a 4K UHD TV in Japan and Japanese companies are also concentrating on it,” said an industry insider. “The TV industry is highly interested in whether Hisense’s challenge in Japan will lead to ‘low-priced UHD TVs’ and what kind of results it will produce.”
> 
> Seo Hyeong-seok | hsseo@etnews.com
> 
> 중국 하이센스, 삼성이 포기한 일본 TV 시장 공략 가속
> 
> <중국 전자업체 하이센스의 일본 법인 홈페이지(hisense.co.jp). 14개의 LED TV를 20인치 대 보급형부터 50인치 대 프리미엄 제품까지 갖춰 판매하고 있다.>
> 
> 중국 전자업체 하이센스가 일본 TV 시장에 지속적으로 문을 두드리고 있다. 출시 제품도 보급형 중심에서 대형 프리미엄으로 확대하는 모양새다. ‘외산의 무덤’이라 불리며 삼성전자도 포기한 일본 TV 시장에서 중국 업체의 도전이 주목된다.
> 
> 20일 업계에 따르면 하이센스는 최근 일본 시장에 50인치 풀HD(1920×1080)급 LED TV를 출시해 판매에 들어갔다. 지상파는 물론 BS(방송위성)•CS(통신위성)용 튜너를 내장했으며, 하드디스크(HDD)와 USB 메모리를 이용한 녹화도 지원한다. TV에 내장된 칩세트와 소프트웨어(SW)도 모두 일본에서 조달하며 소비자 성향을 정확히 겨냥했다는 평가다. 가격은 7만엔(약 70만원) 후반으로 10만엔(약 100만원)대인 동급 일본 업체 제품보다 저렴하다.
> 
> 하이센스는 일본에서 14개 TV 모델을 선보이며 사업을 넓히고 있다. 2010년 말 일본 진출 초기 20~30인치 대 보급형 제품을 내놓다가 지난해부터 50인치 대 제품으로 확대하며 일본 업체의 프리미엄 제품과 경쟁하고 있다. 요도바시카메라 등 대형 전자제품 양판점과 인터넷 쇼핑몰 중심의 유통구조로 마진을 줄여 일본 제품의 40인치 대 가격으로 50인치 대 제품을 구입할 수 있는 가격 경쟁력이 무기다.
> 
> 소비자도 호의적이다. 일본 환경에 맞는 기능들을 모두 갖춘 데다 가격도 저렴해 보급형으로 손색없기 때문이다. 일본 인터넷쇼핑몰 아마존 재팬에서 24인치와 32인치 모델 모두 5점 만점에 4점 이상의 평균 점수를 얻고 있으며, 라쿠텐에서도 24인치 모델이 ‘가격’을 무기로 순항하고 있다. 포장, 지지대와 같은 액세서리 등 일본 업체보다 부족한 부분에 대한 불만도 있지만 대체적으로 TV에 대해서는 만족한다는 평가다.
> 
> 하이센스의 일본 내 TV 사업은 높아지는 중국 TV의 위상을 보여준다. 시장조사업체 디스플레이서치에 따르면 평판 TV 시장에서 하이센스의 올해 1분기 점유율은 6.4%로 6.8%인 소니에 이어 세계 4위를 기록됐다. 2012년과 지난해에는 소니와의 격차를 각각 3.1%, 2.3%로 줄이며 올해 역전도 바라볼 수 있다는 것이 시장의 전망이다.
> 
> 국내 업체들은 관망하고 있다. 윤부근 삼성전자 소비자가전(CE) 부문 사장은 지난주 일요일 아프리카 출장에서 귀국하며 “중국 업체들과 삼성전자의 TV 시장 타깃이 다르다”며 “크게 걱정하지 않는다”고 중국발 저가공세 우려를 일축한바 있다. 하지만 하이센스가 일본 시장에서 성과를 낸다면 2007년 일본 시장에서 업체와의 경쟁을 견디지 못해 철수한 삼성전자로서는 신경이 쓰일 수밖에 없다. 일본에서 보급형에서 프리미엄까지 전 제품을 갖추고 경쟁 중인 LG전자도 마찬가지다.
> 
> 관건은 초고화질(UHD) TV다. 하이센스가 일본에는 UHD TV를 내놓지 않고 있지만, 디스플레이서치 조사 기준 올해 1분기 UHD TV 세계 2위를 차지한 글로벌 강자이기 때문이다. 업계 관계자는 “외산 경쟁사인 LG전자가 4K UHD TV를 일본에 내놓고 일본 업체들도 이를 주력으로 하고 있다”며 “하이센스의 일본 도전이 ‘저가 UHD TV’로 이어져 어떤 결과를 낼지 TV 업계의 관심이 크다”고 말했다.
> 
> 서형석기자 | hsseo@etnews.com



Don't blame the Koreans, they're just doing what's best for them. Its all about economics.


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## Götterdämmerung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> pshh, clearly you don't know the meaning of taste.



His phone is not encased in a fugly case, though.


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## Aepsilons

Götterdämmerung said:


> His phone is not encased in a fugly case, though.



Aufhören, ein Spielverderber, Kumpel !


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## senheiser

xunzi said:


> Get your facts straight. Samsung is expanding in China because we have a huge market and educated workforce. Microsoft Nokia is out because they can't compete with our firm and Samsung. So they try to go to your market. Nobody buys a Nokia anymore. its american.


fixed


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## Götterdämmerung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Because _its not_ Coach. I don't buy non-designer brands, btw.



Are you a label queen?


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## Aepsilons

Götterdämmerung said:


> Are you a label queen?



A person can't like brands? Come on, don't be so insensitive, mein freund.

Let's get back to the subject matter.


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## Götterdämmerung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> A person can't like brands? Come on, don't be so insensitive, mein freund.
> 
> Let's get back to the subject matter.



Everyone has a brand preference, e.g. I like Miele white goods, in fashion I like the Belgian school (Bikkemberg, Demeulemeester) and the Japanese school (Yamamoto, Comme des Garçons) and of course good old Savile Row tailoring and everything bespoke without any brands on it. I like to mix very expensive stuffs with dirt cheap stuffs, sometimes even with second-hand stuffs from the flea market.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Don't blame the Koreans, they're just doing what's best for them. Its all about economics.



Like I said before, what companies like Samsung doing in SEA is exploitation and unsustainable. Often their factories break regulation like pollution or harsh working condition and the local government have to turn a blind eye to not offend these foreign companies.

But for poor countries in SEA, their presence is better than nothing...in the short term only, they'll probably come out worst in the long term.


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## Aepsilons

Götterdämmerung said:


> Everyone has a brand preference, e.g. I like Miele white goods, in fashion I like the Belgian school (Bikkemberg, Demeulemeester) and the Japanese school (Yamamoto, Comme des Garçons) and of course good old Savile Row tailoring and everything bespoke without any brands on it. I like to mix very expensive stuffs with dirt cheap stuffs, sometimes even with second-hand stuffs from the flea market.



Very eclectic taste, mein deutsche freund.


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## Götterdämmerung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Very eclectic taste, mein deutsche freund.



I like stuffs that last long, very, very long and I'm willing to pay a lot for quality. Fashion trends don't matter. I still wear stuffs that I bought 15 - 20 years ago and they still look as fashionable as then. That's the difference between style and fashion.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Aepsilons

Götterdämmerung said:


> I like stuffs that last long, very, very long and I'm willing to pay a lot for quality. Fashion trends don't matter. I still wear stuffs that I bought 15 - 20 years ago and they still look as fashionable as then. That's the difference between style and fashion.



Agreed. I still use the same winter boots, they are over 14 years old. L.L.Bean. With my sporting attire, its either Lululemon or Northface. They last a very long time. I own a Klein mountain bike , custom made, which i paid a very good deal of money for ($3000). I've fallen many times on that bike when i was on bike trails (dirt, unpaved); still lasts. You really do get what you pay for.


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> um Samsung and LG has already moved factories to vietnam. And the reason they are doin it is because Vietnam virtually is allowing them to be tax free.
> 
> Basically, Vietnam has to obey the demands of these private company.


well, for instance Samsung enjoys free of corporate tax for for the first six years, 5-percent tax rate for four years and 10 percent later on. Plus, the company receives money for employees training and other benefits.

basically foreign companies can negotiate everything with the government.

Samsung Electronics Rushes to Vietnam for More Production Sites | Be Korea-savvy



Nihonjin1051 said:


> @Viet ,
> 
> You will see that South Korea will follow suit. They too will begin relocating their production sites in South East Asia.
> 
> I know for a fact that South Koreans have been conducting feasibility studies in South East Asia, following us in this.


S Korea will soon surpass Japan investments in Vietnam. they are very ambitious and don´t lack of money. their companies even want to build airports and other large scale infrastructures. VN government is evaluating the offers.


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## Aepsilons

Then i endorse the Vietnamese Government to take advantage of what offers present themselves.

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## BoQ77

Betonamu-jin also get mad about Iphone ...

I have no way to intercept that addiction ...

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## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> Betonamu-jin also get mad about Iphone ...
> 
> I have no way to intercept that addiction ...




ha ha ha ! Nihonggo o hanashimasu ka ? 

I-phone ... Hijo ni chudoku-sei!


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## Götterdämmerung

Well, back to topic. Nokia has lost all sympathy in Germany, Europe's biggest and most important market, after they got all the benefits from our government on the promise that they will stay and secure jobs. Once all the benefits were in, they just closed the factory and moved on to Romania. That was in 2008 and ever since Nokia started to nosedive into oblivion.

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## Jlaw

Black Flag said:


> I think Nihonjin1051 is the kinda of guy that walks around with that waist pouch thing, the type that middle aged tourist always carry.
> 
> right Nihonjin1051?


Fag bag?


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## Johny D

Great news..!


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## BoQ77

Chinese should wonder why Iphone sold in China at higher price than in Malaysia, Vietnam.


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## Viet

Just released: first Vietnamese brand tablet, called Rosa, a joint venture of *Microsoft, Viet Son Company and Intel Corporation.*

Chip Intel Quad-Core Trail T – Z3735D, Windows 8.1, Wifi and 3G version. coming with 2 models: 8 inch WiFi and 10 inch model.
The 8 inch WiFi model costs VND 3,990,000 (US$188), the 10 inch VND 6,490,000 (US$305).

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## xunzi

Viet said:


> Just released: first Vietnamese brand tablet, called Rosa, a joint venture of *Microsoft, Viet Son Company and Intel Corporation.*
> 
> Chip Intel Quad-Core Trail T – Z3735D, Windows 8.1, Wifi and 3G version. coming with 2 models: 8 inch WiFi and 10 inch model.
> The 8 inch WiFi model costs VND 3,990,000 (US$188), the 10 inch VND 6,490,000 (US$305).


LOL overprice junk. Who buy that?


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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> Just released: first Vietnamese brand tablet, called Rosa, a joint venture of *Microsoft, Viet Son Company and Intel Corporation.*
> 
> Chip Intel Quad-Core Trail T – Z3735D, Windows 8.1, Wifi and 3G version. coming with 2 models: 8 inch WiFi and 10 inch model.
> The 8 inch WiFi model costs VND 3,990,000 (US$188), the 10 inch VND 6,490,000 (US$305).




Looks nice !

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## BoQ77

xunzi said:


> LOL overprice junk. Who buy that?



Your Chinese people still rush for Iphone, Ipad ... a unsecured and overpriced item as your govt called.


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## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> Your Chinese people still rush for Iphone, Ipad ... a unsecured and overpriced item as your govt called.


LOL rush is such an exaggerated word. Apple is not even the top phone people want to buy. They got beat by small player like Xiaomi for crying out loud.


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## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> LOL rush is such an exaggerated word. Apple is not even the top phone people want to buy. They got beat by small player like Xiaomi for crying out loud.



Stop drinking that HATERade, bro.


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## BoQ77

Are you Xiaomi marketing staff ?
Why you not say good for Lenovo phone? whose better-seller in China, and other countries?


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## Viet

xunzi said:


> LOL rush is such an exaggerated word. Apple is not even the top phone people want to buy. They got beat by small player like Xiaomi for crying out loud.


ha ha ha ha...how about this one:

Windows Phone 8.1, high end *Nokia Lumia 930 *available now in Vietnam per Microsoft press release
price tag of 12,999,000 VND ($610), contract-free

Nokia Lumia 930 Pre-Orders Officially Kick Off in Vietnam on July 1


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## BoXilai

Viet said:


> ha ha ha ha...how about this one:
> 
> Windows Phone 8.1, high end *Nokia Lumia 930 *available now in Vietnam per Microsoft press release
> price tag of 12,999,000 VND ($610), contract-free
> 
> Nokia Lumia 930 Pre-Orders Officially Kick Off in Vietnam on July 1



Lumia 930 is too sexy if compares with previous generations of Lumia series. The problem makes me have not ever used Lumia phones is their OS.


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## BoQ77

*Details emerge of Vietnam's C295 purchase*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
22 July 2014
The three C295 transport aircraft that Vietnam has ordered from Airbus Defence and Space (DS) are scheduled to enter service with the Vietnamese air force from 2015, _IHS Jane's_ understands.

The purchase contract - thought to be secured in 2013 at a cost of about USD100 million - also includes the supply of spares, maintenance, and training to the air force, which is expected to take delivery of the aircraft at intervals of about six months.

It is also understood that the aircraft are being sold to Vietnam in a basic transport configuration with no additional mission systems included. ( Israeli Elta systems would combine their equipment to later ) Airbus DS's production of Vietnam's first C295 aircraft, which is currently under way in Seville, Spain, was revealed by _IHS Jane's_ in June, although contract details have not previously been disclosed.






C-295 AEW with Elta system radar





*General characteristics*


*Crew:* Two
*Capacity:* 71 troops
*Payload:* 9,250 kg (20,400 lbs)
*Length:* 24.50 m (80 ft 3 in)
*Wingspan:* 25.81 m (84 ft 8 in)
*Height:* 8.60 m (28 ft 3 in)
*Wing area:* 59 m² (634.8 ft²)
*Max. takeoff weight:* 23,200 kg (51,146 lbs)
*Powerplant:* 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PW127G Hamilton Standard 586-F (six bladed), 1,972 kW (2,645 hp) each
*Performance*


*Maximum speed:* 576 km/h (311 knots, 358 mph)
*Cruise speed:* 480 km/h (260 knots, 300 mph)
*Range:* with 3,000 kg (6,600 lb) payload, 4,600 km (2,500 nmi / 2,875 mi); (with 6,000 kg (13,200 lb) payload, 3,700 km (2,000 nmi / 2,300 mi))
*Range with max 9,250 kg (20,400 lb) payload:* 1,300 km (700 nmi / 805 mi)
*Ferry range:* 5,400 km (2,900 nmi / 3,335 mi)
*Service ceiling:* 9,100 m (30,000 ft)
*Takeoff run:* 670 m (2,200 ft)
*Landing run:* 320 m (1,050 ft)






Vietnam could apply the AWACS radar by Elta system just like this DHC-6-400 ( received )

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> *Details emerge of Vietnam's C295 purchase*
> *Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
> 
> *General characteristics*


71 men. small units, perhaps for carrying paratroopers or special Ops.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> 71 men. small units, perhaps for carrying paratroopers or special Ops.



short take off, landing run
Truong Sa Lon , runway 800m

--------





Sĩ quan quân đội Việt Nam chụp ảnh lưu niệm cùng phái đoàn Indonesia và máy bay vận tải CN-295.

Trong cuộc gặp và thảo luận với Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Việt Nam vào hôm 27/5 tại Hà Nội, Đại tướng Phùng Quang Thanh cho biết rằng, Không quân Việt Nam cần một loại máy bay có thể triển khai lực lượng, vận tải, sức chở tối đa 10 tấn và có một cánh cửa phía sau để đáp ứng nhu cầu của đất nước.

---------------------

*April 1, 2014*
* Vietnam will buy early warning aircraft C-295? *





Translated from Vietnamese

Việt Nam sẽ mua máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295? | Vietnam Defense

Defense industry company Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Israel is in the negotiation stage 4 different types of customers interested in medium-range transport aircraft by Airbus Defence & Space C295 manufactured, but is installed additional monitoring systems and airborne early warning (AWACS) by Elta Systems company (under IAI) developed.

According to Flight Global magazine, C295 transport aircraft Airbus was previously developed an aerodynamic configuration can be installed rotating radar system for surveillance missions and early warning (AWACS) on no. In Meanwhile, Elta Systems (a member company of IAI) is also quite popular in the ability to develop and manufacture electronic intelligence sensors, communication devices, monitoring, command and radar. A source Israel said that the purpose of monitoring the aircraft version and Early Warning C-295 is to attract the attention of Air Force countries used transport aircraft designed in Europe.

IAI has today revealed a number of countries are using transport aircraft C-295 engine 2 shows the variations are interested in monitoring and early warning of this transport aircraft. C-295 AEW is equipped with two turboprop PW127G, maximum speed 576km / h, cruising speed 480km / h. The aircraft has a maximum operating range of 5.400km, enough to control the airspace over a large area, have the ability to perform tasks continuously extended to 9 hours, and can operate at high stand up to 7.930m.

Vietnam's air force is still largely based on the activities of the foundation fighter, flagship fighter as Su-27/30 bomb, Su-22 Russian / Soviet made and the support of a network of advanced radar system placed on the ground. However, in modern warfare, the need for an aircraft acts as a radar can perform the tasks of monitoring, warning distance is of paramount importance. So, most likely in the near future we will be more equipped aircraft have a similar role to enhance combat capability.

Islamic month end 5/2013, the Indonesian Air Force also has an air conditioning tactical transport S-295 (a variant of the C-295) make the journey overseas performances around the ASEAN 6 countries (including Vietnam) to promote the capabilities and performance of military transport aircraft the aircraft by manufacturer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI) and Airbus Military Company co-production. later flight demonstration in Vietnam, CN-295 aircraft by the Ministry of Defense appreciated. Shortly thereafter, the Indonesian press reported that Hanoi has expressed interest in buying the three planes of this type. Meanwhile, Russia's Independent newspaper said that, with no requirement to modernize military in the near future, Vietnam will buy at least two aircraft airborne early warning, in which CASA C-295 is one of the leading candidates. All facilities on show, there is high possibility that Vietnam will be one of the four countries participating in talks to buy AWACS aircraft C-295 Airbus and Israel to the future, significantly enhanced capacity warfare for the Air Force.


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## Viet

@BoQ77 

ok, that makes sense to me now.
3 early warning aircraft, the first of this kind for the airforce.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> @BoQ77
> 
> ok, that makes sense to me now.
> 3 early warning aircraft, the first of this kind for the airforce.



C-295 is really a multi-purpose aircraft with modular design ...
ASW, AEW, transport, ...
But at first, the transport function and add militant to Truong Sa Lon is great.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @BoQ77
> 
> ok, that makes sense to me now.
> 3 early warning aircraft, the first of this kind for the airforce.



Hmmmm I very much doubt it. IAI is developing that version together with Airbus and the plane will be sold as a AWACS plane from the factory itself. If the version bought by Vietnam were to be an AWACS, it would be sold as such from the start. It will not be sold as a transport plane and then to add the awacs equipment later. Also, all the equipment integration for the AWACS version including the radome antenna installation is done at the factory in Spain, it would not be in Vietnam or in Israel, so it can't be a case of the planes being bought as transports and then the AWACS equipment added later.

These 3 planes should be just the transport version as the news release indicates. The AWACS version is not finished yet, its under development, the demonstration plane that is shown in the picture only has the radome antenna installed, no other equipment related to the AWACS version is installed in it since the development is not finished yet, they just use that plane to show what the plane will look like with the radome antenna, that's all (the radome antenna is the round rotating antenna seen on top of the plane).

Also, since the planes will be delivered in 2015, they can only be transports, production units on the AWACS version can't be ready that fast.

The original press release does not mention anything about Israeli Elta systems adding equipment later, that sentence in red color between parenthesis is not part of the news release. This is the text of the news release:

*"The three C295 transport aircraft that Vietnam has ordered from Airbus Defence and Space (DS) are scheduled to enter service with the Vietnamese air force from 2015,IHS Jane's understands.

The purchase contract - thought to be secured in 2013 at a cost of about USD100 million - also includes the supply of spares, maintenance, and training to the air force, which is expected to take delivery of the aircraft at intervals of about six months.

It is also understood that the aircraft are being sold to Vietnam in a basic transport configuration with no additional mission systems included. Airbus DS's production of Vietnam's first C295 aircraft, which is currently under way in Seville, Spain, was revealed by IHS Jane's in June, although contract details have not previously been disclosed."*

Vietnam will most likely buy the AWACS version of the C-295 once its ready, but the development has to be finished first so that customers can inspect and test the plane, Vietnam will not buy it while development is still ongoing.

The C-295 as a transport for Vietnam will replace the older AN-26's.



BoQ77 said:


> short take off, landing run
> Truong Sa Lon , runway 800m



Truong Sa Lon runway is 600 meters, not 800.


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## Viet

@Carlosa


hmmm, you say the AWACS version of the C-295 is not ready yet.
should that mean we buy 3 airbus planes just to strengthen our troop transport capacity, to add the new birds to the exsiting fleet of An 26?

well, it is not bad at all.


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## BoQ77

C-295 could be used for newly parachute troops force

Danh sách sân bay ở Việt Nam – Wikipedia tiếng Việt

Look at : sân bay quân sự

Sân bay Trường Sa – Wikipedia tiếng Việt
Bách khoa toàn thư mở Wikipedia
Sân Bay Trường Sa nằm ở đảo Trường Sa Lớn, thuộc huyện Trường Sa, tỉnh Khánh Hòa.

Đây là sân bay quân sự duy nhất của Quân đội Nhân dân Việt Nam trên Quần đảo Trường Sa,có 1 đường băng dài khoảng 800 mét. Đường băng và sân đỗ máy bay có 3 lớp kết cấu trên nền cát, đá san hô tự nhiên gồm: Lớp nền móng tạo phẳng và lu, lèn chặt; lớp móng gia cố xi măng và lớp bê tông xi măng cường độ cao dày 25 cm.Sân bay trên đảo Trường Sa Lớn có thể tiếp nhận các loại trực thăng và máy bay tuần tiễu M-28. Có thể nói, sân bay Trường Sa là một công trình đặc biệt quan trọng trong việc khẳng định và bảo vệ chủ quyền biển đảo thiêng liêng của Tổ quốc Việt Nam.

*Uploaded on Apr 20, 2011*

Với khoảng cách hơn 200 hải lý so với đất liền, với một sân bay nhỏ (chiều dài đường băng 800m) ở đảo Trường Sa (còn gọi là đảo Trường Sa Lớn), phương tiện vận tải duy nhất hiện nay là sử dụng "những con ngựa già"


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> 
> hmmm, you say the AWACS version of the C-295 is not ready yet.
> should that mean we buy 3 airbus planes just to strengthen our troop transport capacity, to add the new birds to the exsiting fleet of An 26?
> 
> well, it is not bad at all.



Correct, just the transport planes for now which is already good enough, that plane is actually very good, VN will start with the transport version first, make sure that they are happy with the plane and then they can add the AWACS version later once its finished and they can check it out.


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## Viet

poliburo member Pham Quang Nghi is currently on a visit to America.

some western media speculate besides seeking a closer economic tie, he wants to find out under what conditions Washington will be ready to negotiate a mililary alliance with Vietnam.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Danh sách sân bay ở Việt Nam – Wikipedia tiếng Việt
> 
> Look at : sân bay quân sự
> 
> 
> *Uploaded on Apr 20, 2011*
> 
> Với khoảng cách hơn 200 hải lý so với đất liền, với một sân bay nhỏ (chiều dài đường băng 800m) ở đảo Trường Sa (còn gọi là đảo Trường Sa Lớn), phương tiện vận tải duy nhất hiện nay là sử dụng "những con ngựa già"



The article is wrong, the island itself is 630 meters long and the airstrip is just a few meters smaller than the island. Actually Wikipedia in English has the island size as 630 meters which is correct, the vietnamese version is not. I know from a variety of sources that the airstrip is 600 meters long, I used to research about this island.

The information from wikipedia is not reliable, it depends on who is posting, which can be anybody.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Correct, just the transport planes for now which is already good enough, that plane is actually very good, VN will start with the transport version first, make sure that they are happy with the plane and then they can add the AWACS version later once its finished and they can check it out.


...and the planes will be built in Seville/Spain, your home country


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ...and the planes will be built in Seville/Spain, your home country


But of course!!! Only good things come out from Spain (well, not in football this year).

Actually that family of planes were originally made by the spanish company CASA (later integrated into Airbus), the C in C-295 stands for the company name CASA, the C-295 and C-235 are just stretched and enlarged versions of the CASA-212 Aviocar which has been around for many years and is still very successful and very reliable. Vietnam currently has 3 of the C-212 marine patrol version in the coast guard.


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## Carlosa

*A treat for you guys, the Carlosa Special Report about the C-212 marine patrol bird of Vietnam, you are not going to find this article anywhere, I put it together myself from a variety of sources:*

*Vietnam Marine Police has launched a fleet of Casa-212-400 aircraft to monitor vessels in coastal areas, detect oil spills and coordinate rescue activities.*

These CASA C212-400 are being used to perform coastal patrol duties. Previously, Vietnam has sent pilots to Seville, Spain to receive pilot training.

The Casa 212-400 aircraft is the latest version of the C212 model manufactured by Airbus. The plane accommodates a crew of three and can be used for long patrol journeys. The aircraft can transport 24 soldiers or a cabin load of 2.7 tons, in addition, it is also equipped with two hard points, can carry guided missiles and unguided rockets, for a total weapons payload of 500 kg.

A Casa 212-400 is 16.1 meters long, 6.5 meters tall, and has a wingspan of 20.2 meters. The plane can fly at a maximum speed of 370 kph, with a range of 1,800 km.

The plane is also equipped with a MSS-6000 airborne maritime surveillance system which is made in Sweden.

The core of the MSS-6000 is a mission management system that links all available information together and presents a situation overview to the operator for interpretation and further action. The mission management system is based on GIS (Geographical Information System) technology, and the available information is presented against a backdrop of a digital nautical chart.

*These aircraft in the service to Vietnam will not only enhance the surveillance capabilities of the sea, it will have a certain airborne early warning capability.*

The Casa-212 can operate during the day and at night and in all weather conditions. It can take off and land at makeshift airports with short, narrow runways.

Equipped with two propeller turbine engines, the aircraft can fly at very low altitude, making it ideal for patrolling and identifying vessels at sea, spotting oil spills, and con- ducting rescue missions.

*MSS 6000 Maritime surveillance system to support oil spill, rescue operations in Vietnamese waters*

The Vietnamese contract comes from the Vietnam Marine Police, which has ordered systems for installation on three new CASA C212-400 aircraft – a project that takes three years to complete. The contract has an extensive scope, including installation and testing of the systems in the aircraft, establishment of a ground station and mission command center, and operational and technical training of personnel.

*SSC will supply a fully integrated MSS 6000 system, including SLAR (side-looking airborne radar), still and video cameras, airborne AIS (automatic identification system for ships), an IR/UV (infra-red/ultra-violet) line scanner, an FLIR (forward-looking infra-red) scanner, and communications via high-speed satellite data-link and HF (high frequency) radio.*

The customer will use the equipment for patrolling Vietnamese waters, detecting and responding to oil spills and illegal fishing activities, protecting the economic zone, and participating in search-and-rescue operations.

The MSS 6000 provides an effective means to monitor activities in national waters and to detect unwanted or illegal events, such as oil pollution, whether accidental or deliberate, and unauthorized fishing. The technology can also be applied to monitoring movement of ice, likely to become increasingly important as offshore oil and gas operations spread to arctic regions.

Data from the different sensors is processed, integrated, and presented in one integrated view to the operator. All recordings are annotated with GPS data and digitally stored in an on-board geographical database. Data and digital images are presented integrated with an electronic nautical chart data base and also correlated with the mission report, all at the operator’s finger-tips. All information from the mission is saved and can be compiled in mission reports and sent via the satellite data-link to a command center and/or cooperating units.

Since the technology was first launched in the 1970s, its capabilities have continually expanded. “With the MSS 5000, which we launched in the 1990s, we were able to do things we could only dream of in the 1970s,” says Colliander, from the manufacturing company. “The MSS 6000 does things we didn’t even dream of.

“*We can safely say that we give a better performance than military surveillance systems at a fraction of the cost*. We’re now exploring what the advent of broadband communications enables us to do. We’ve put a lot of effort into developing software for the man/machine interface. We have kept the system user-friendly and intuitive: one operator can handle it all.”

*One of the MSS 6000’s capabilities is to read a ship’s name at a distance of 10 nautical miles in the middle of the night.* This makes it an important weapon in combating illegal fishing – cheating occurs frequently with the transponders on fishing vessels, so being able covertly to read ships’ names provides an important means of checking their true identity.

*FEATURES*

*Search radar*

*A search radar can be added to the system for general surveillance. The MSS 6000 is designed to interface to a forward looking or 360 degrees search radar for importing target tracks into the tactical map database.*

*SLAR*

*The Side Looking Airborne Radar*

*The main sensor of the MSS is the Side-Looking Airborne Radar (SLAR): a mapping radar for surveillance of large sea surfaces.*







The forward motion of the aircraft is utilized by the radar to scan the sea surface perpendicular to the flight track

Whereas a traditional radar typically obtains less than twenty echoes per radar scan from each target, the SLAR obtains up to a thousand. This gives a very high capacity for detecting small targets as well as for showing sea surface properties. Oil floating on the sea surface has a dampening effect on the sea clutter (capillary waves) resulting in less radar return to the aircraft from an oil slick than from the surrounding, undisturbed water surface, and this contrast is clearly visible in the SLAR image.

Objects with higher reflectivity to radar pulses than the sea surface will instead give a more intense radar return, and the resulting image will therefore show not only oil spills but also ships, boats and other small objects against a background picture of the sea surface.

Thus the SLAR is the ideal sensor for large area surveillance for both oils pollution and very small vessels, target types that are difficult at best, and often impossible, to detect with traditional radar technology.

The SLAR is a day and night sensor. It can be operated under all weather conditions.

MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy in positioning the SLAR image and will present the image either superimposed on a backdrop digital chart or display it as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".











*IR/UV SCANNER*

*The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of ship wakes, accident sites etc. It is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .*



The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of accident sites etc. It is capable of observing minute temperature differences on the water surface and is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .

The IR/UV scanner, operating in the 8.5-12.5µm region (IR) and in the 0.32-0.38 µm region (UV), provides high resolution imagery of oil spills and other features on the surface. IR data can be obtained both day and night providing information on the spreading of oil and also indicating the relative oil thickness within the oil slick. Usually 80% of the oil is concentrated within less than 20% of the visual oil slick. By using the IR information, the efficiency of clean-up operations can be greatly improved.






UV data is obtained during daylight conditions, and is primarily used to map the entire extent of an oil slick, irrespective of thickness. The UV data adds confidence to the IR registration by distinguishing between natural thermal phenomena, such as cold upwelling water, from suspected oil pollution. It also assists an on-scene commander in determining the location of the thicker parts an oil spill, thus adding to the efficiency of the clean-up operation.

The MSS 6000 will infterface to any IR/UV line scanner on the market.

MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy and the capability to either superimpose the IR and UV images on a backdrop digital chart or to display the images as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".

The information from the aircraft can be used as input to oil drift modelling, thus further enhancing the aircraft as an asset in your oil spill contingency planning.

*SSC CAMERA AND VIDEO CAMERA*

*The MSS 6000 still and video cameras provide digital imagery and video documentation. Each frame is annotated with relevant mission information for future, tamper-free reference. The built-in DGPS system provides accurate and consistent annotation of all MSS 6000 observations.*

The MSS 6000 assists the operator in keeping track of all exposures made with the still camera and video sequence registered with the video camera by logging the time and position of each exposure and displaying this information in a selectable digital map overlay. Imagery and other information are linked to the geographical position and to the operator's comment, thus creating a comprehensive folder of data to document an observed activity on the sea surface.

Video recordings can be made from the FLIR(Forward Looking Infrared) as well as from the handheld video camera to allow close-up documentation of activities on the sea surface. The video is stored digitally and can be reviewed either in the aircraft or on the ground. Video sequences or selected frames can also be transmitted over the data link.

*AIS - AUTOMATIC IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM*

*A (normally silent) airborne AIS transponder is integrated with the MSS 6000 system.*

The AIS receives identity information from all transponder equipped ships with VHF distance in the patrol area. Live AIS information is displayed on the MSS 6000 map display and logged in the built-in target database. The possibility for the operator to immediatly compare AIS information with target information acquired from other sensors, will greatly facilitate the control of all sea surface activities within the patrol area.

AIS contacts plotted on a patrol of the St. Lawrence inlet (Courtesy Transport Canada)








*FLIR /EO-SENSOR*

*Forward Looking Infrared-/Electro-Optical Sensor*

*A FLIR is an indispensable supplementary sensor for most mission profiles. It will add day and night identification and documentation capability to complement the information gathered from other on-board or external sources.*

The FLIR is integrated into the surveillance system. Imagery from the FLIR is annotated and stored together with the all other mission data. The FLIR can also be slaved to any target position or geographical reference in the MSS 6000 database as selected by the operator, thus facilitating the sorting and identification of targets detected by other means.
Most FLIRs in the market can be integrated to the MSS 6000 system. The pictures show the Wescam MX-16 gyro estabilised sensor,the FLIR systems, the EuroFLIR 350 and the Star Q sensor.






_Image from the EO/IR sensor _








*MWR - THE MICROWAVE RADIOMETER*

*If oil pollution control is one of your main missions, the Microwave Radiometer may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*

The SLAR will map the area of the oil slick. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner.Examples of Infrared and Microwave Radiometer registrations
of an oil spill.








*LFS - LASER FLOUROSENSOR*

*If pollution control is one of your main missions, the Laser Fluorosensor System may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*

The SLAR will detect and map the extent of an oil spill on the sea surface. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner. The Microwave Radiometer will measure the thickness and thusgive a better estimate of the volume of the spill.The Laser Fluorosensor can be said to take a "finger print" of some of the properties of the surface beneath the aircraft

A deeper analysis of the oil pollution is achieved from the Laser Fluorosensor. Its sensitivity to very thin oil films on the water surface, makes this sensor an interesting addition to the sensor package. Apart from the pollution related applications this instrument can also be used for hydrographical measurements and for algae monitoring.

The LFS-light can assist the operator in distinguishing between oil and other substances and to analyze the optical signature of different oil types which has been assembled from a catalogue of the optical properties of different oils from laboratory investigations.

On request a laser fluorosensor can be integrated into the MSS 6000 system.

*ATCOM - SATELLITE COMMUNICATION*

*For real-time in-flight data communication a SATCOM system is integrated with the MSS. With a high-speed SATCOM link the mission report with images and tactical map snapshots captured during the mission can be delivered while in the air or by e-mail or mobile phone after landing. With a low-speed SATCOM link only short messages with information of position and properties of observed activities on the sea surface will be delivered while in the air and mission report and pictures will follow by e-mail or mobile phone data transferred after landing. The recorded mission can also be replayed after landing in the aircraft or on a ground station.*

High-speed satellite communications is integrated in the MSS 6000 system for real-time information to other units in the surveillance operation.

*VMS - VESSEL MONITORING SYSTEM*

*The integrated Vessel Monitoring System (VMS) functionality provides a possibility to upload information on fishing vessels from the national fisheries authority to be accessed together with other mission data.*






*DF - DIRECTION FINDER*

*The Direction Finder (DF) functionality provides direction information on radio transmitters, including the 406 MHz emergency frequency and decoding of COSPAS/SARSAT data.*

*MSS 6000 OPERATOR WORK STATION*

*The MSS 6000 operator workstation is innovatibly and ergonomically designed; from his or her seat, the operator has access to all system functionality.*

The MSS design allows for more than one operator workstation on board the aircraft, each with configurable functionality. Thus the work distribution between the operators may be configured to maximize mission effectiveness, according to the requirements of the customer organization.

*MISSION COMMAND CENTRE - MCC*

*With the Mission Command Centre SSC has developed a new addition to its maritime surveillance concept.*





_he MCC in command mode showing the tactical map_.

The first complete MCC will be delivered together with three MSS 6000 equipped aircraft to the Vietnam Marine Police.

The MCC provides an exquisite tool for the Mission Command to plan, follow, analyze and archive the missions of all flying units.

In the MCC the mission is prepared before flight and followed and managed from the ground in real time during the flight.

The MCC displays the flight track of all flying units on the tactical map. It receives data from the aircraft including position, updates, incident reports, AIS and target information, images and streaming video. The incoming data is shown on a digital map in the MCC to give an overview of the situation. From the MCC further instructions can be issued to the aircraft in real time on how to proceed with the mission.

All mission information is stored in a database from where it can be analyzed processed. Using the filter functions and background databases, important information about ship movements and the identity and activity of observed vessels can be easily visualized on the screen.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> But of course!!! Only good things come out from Spain (well, not in football this year).
> 
> Actually that family of planes were originally made by the spanish company CASA (later integrated into Airbus), the C in C-295 stands for the company name CASA, the C-295 and C-235 are just stretched and enlarged versions of the CASA-212 Aviocar which has been around for many years and is still very successful and very reliable. Vietnam currently has 3 of the C-212 marine patrol version in the coast guard.


yeah...your football team had not performed good at this time, while the Germans played great and deserved to have won the championship. but hey, you won the title last time, didn´t you?

I think the future looks great as we continue to do more and more defence business with Spain and European partners. I wonder when will you send the Armada Española for a port visit to Vietnam?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yeah...your football team had not performed good at this time, while the Germans played great and deserved to have won the championship. but hey, you won the title last time, didn´t you?
> 
> I think the future looks great as we continue to do more and more defence business with Spain and European partners. I wonder when will you send the Armada Española for a port visit to Vietnam?



Yes, Spain won 4 years ago, but I think they are going to need to put together a new team from scratch, the current team is too old. Germany deserved to win and I think they'll stay strong for a number of years.

Yes, VN needs to grow out of that Russian only weapons situation, Russia is very good for some things like air defense systems, etc, but they are so so in many other things. Its good that VN is buying the Sigma frigates, those are better than the Gepards.

Actually, VN is too shy, They really need to get more serious about developing weapon systems, they can do more and better than what they are doing at present. They need to take control of ship development, not just buy as is like now, VN should do what Myanmar is doing, they are putting together 3500 ton heavy frigates with a hell of a powerful weapon system mixing equipment from a variety of sources (sonars and guns from India, missiles and radars from russia and china, etc. I could not believe that poor Mianmar is doing that; there is no reason why VN can't do it.

It would be great if the Armada Espanola were to come to Vietnam, I'll pass the request, Spain has a pretty good navy, they made some nice destroyers with the Aegis system that are actually the cheapest Aegis ships anywhere by far, they would be nice for VN to have.

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## Carlosa

Actually, with the 3 C-212 planes and the 3 DH-6 planes of the marine patrol version, VN has a basic, but decent marine patrol capability. Its not like the big marine patrol / ASW planes but its quite decent, specially for coast guard needs. Those planes are small but they pack some serious hardware, particularly the C-212 with the MSS system which is very sophisticated and for many applications is as good as the big marine patrol planes, even better in some aspects and it also provides a basic AWACS capability.

Obviously the next step would be the C-295 MPA / ASW version (or the P-3C Orion), hopefully soon.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, Spain won 4 years ago, but I think they are going to need to put together a new team from scratch, the current team is too old. Germany deserved to win and I think they'll stay strong for a number of years.
> 
> Yes, VN needs to grow out of that Russian only weapons situation, Russia is very good for some things like air defense systems, etc, but they are so so in many other things. Its good that VN is buying the Sigma frigates, those are better than the Gepards.
> 
> Actually, VN is too shy, They really need to get more serious about developing weapon systems, they can do more and better than what they are doing at present. They need to take control of ship development, not just buy as is like now, VN should do what Myanmar is doing, they are putting together 3500 ton heavy frigates with a hell of a powerful weapon system mixing equipment from a variety of sources (sonars and guns from India, missiles and radars from russia and china, etc. I could not believe that poor Mianmar is doing that; there is no reason why VN can't do it.
> 
> It would be great if the Armada Espanola were to come to Vietnam, I'll pass the request, Spain has a pretty good navy, they made some nice destroyers with the Aegis system that are actually the cheapest Aegis ships anywhere by far, they would be nice for VN to have.


Yeah you are always welcome man.

actually the Russians are not too bad. They are slow but always keep their promises to VN.

For instance Vladimir Putin has just ratified a space cooperation, clearing the way for the implementation of GLONASS satellite navigation, plus building ground stations in Vietnam. But the Russians should do more to help us: transfering warships technology so we can self build Gepards and Kilos. the government should put more pressure on them.

It is a bit too early yet to acquire any Aegis warships as we still await the US to lift the arms embargo. but if it comes, I believe the navy will surely buy them. can´t wait to see them operating in the South China Sea.

Russian President ratifies outer space cooperation deal with Vietnam | Technology, Information, Gadgets, Mobile Phones News & Reviews

Russia will build GLONASS satellite navigation system ground stations in Vietnam - Military News

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yeah you are always welcome man.
> 
> actually the Russians are not too bad. They are slow but always keep their promises to VN.
> 
> For instance Vladimir Putin has just ratified a space cooperation, clearing the way for the implementation of GLONASS satellite navigation, plus building ground stations in Vietnam. But the Russians should do more to help us: transfering warships technology so we can self build Gepards and Kilos.
> 
> Russian President ratifies outer space cooperation deal with Vietnam | Technology, Information, Gadgets, Mobile Phones News & Reviews
> 
> Russia will build GLONASS satellite navigation system ground stations in Vietnam - Military News



Yes, the Russians are a good, reliable partner, but they are not fond of transferring technology.

Look at Indonesia, they bought 3 submarines from Korea, 2 built in Korea and one in Indonesia with tech transfer.
Vietnam can build under Russian license, but it will not get the transfer of sensitive technology which is the case in the KH-35. For the license building of the Molniya corvettes VN didn't get tech transfer for sensors or any equipment of importance, still, VN learns a lot from building the ships anyway.

Building the Gepard under license would be another step forward for VN, but a limited one. Building the Sigma under license would be much more rewarding for Vietnam when it comes to tech transfer. And if VN could get tech transfer of the Thales Smart S MK2 radar of the Sigma which is the top ship radar in Europe (and much better than the radar in the Gepard) or the Tacticos combat management system which is also top notch in Europe, then that would be something really nice. Hopefully it will happen.

I suspect that it will be much easier for VN to build european or Korean subs under license than to be able to build Kilos.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, the Russians are a good, reliable partner, but they are not fond of transferring technology.
> 
> Look at Indonesia, they bought 3 submarines from Korea, 2 built in Korea and one in Indonesia with tech transfer.
> Vietnam can build under Russian license, but it will not get the transfer of sensitive technology which is the case in the KH-35. For the license building of the Molniya corvettes VN didn't get tech transfer for sensors or any equipment of importance, still, VN learns a lot from building the ships anyway.
> 
> Building the Gepard under license would be another step forward for VN, but a limited one. Building the Sigma under license would be much more rewarding for Vietnam when it comes to tech transfer. And if VN could get tech transfer of the Thales Smart S MK2 radar of the Sigma which is the top ship radar in Europe (and much better than the radar in the Gepard) or the Tacticos combat management system which is also top notch in Europe, then that would be something really nice. Hopefully it will happen.
> 
> I suspect that it will be much easier for VN to build european or Korean subs under license than to be able to build Kilos.


You seem not to be a fan of the Russians, I guess 
actually our relationship to Russia is more than seller and buyer. It is of strategic importance. We have an immense strategic interest to keep Russia as our friend and partner, not losing the country to China.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> You seem not to be a fan of the Russians, I guess
> actually our relationship to Russia is more than seller and buyer. It is of strategic importance. We have an immense strategic interest to keep Russia as our friend and partner, not losing the country to China.



Oh no, I'm a fan of the Russians actually, and I do support them in Ukraine also, but when it comes to depending only on them for weapon purchases, that's very limiting for Vietnam, like I said before, they are very good in some areas and so so in others. In terms of strategic partners they are certainly number one, I understand that clearly. My point is that Vietnam needs to get weaponry and technology from a variety of sources and from whoever is best in the field.

For example, buy from Russia where they are stronger such as ballistic missiles (Iskander), air defense (S-300 / 400), Kilo subs, etc. For surface ships, that's not an area where the Russians are really strong, so buying from Europe is really good, in other cases buying from Israel which is very strong in many areas.

But with Russia, need to be realistic, they are not easy to get tech transfer from, which is actually bizarre because at the same time, they sell to the chinese knowing that they will copy it. Its much easier to get tech transfer from Europe or Israel than to get it from Russia.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *A treat for you guys, the Carlosa Special Report about the C-212 marine patrol bird of Vietnam, you are not going to find this article anywhere, I put it together myself from a variety of sources:*
> 
> *Vietnam Marine Police has launched a fleet of Casa-212-400 aircraft to monitor vessels in coastal areas, detect oil spills and coordinate rescue activities.*
> 
> It is reported that these CASA C212-400 will be used to perform coastal patrol duties. Previously, Vietnam has sent pilots to Seville, Spain to accept this type of patrol driving training.
> 
> The Casa 212-400 aircraft is the latest version of the C212 model manufactured by Airbus. The plane accommodates a crew of three and can be used for long patrol journeys. The aircraft can transport 24 soldiers a cabin load 2.7 tons, in addition, it is also equipped with two hardpoints, can carry guided missiles and unguided rockets, mounted capacity of 500 kg.
> 
> A Casa 212-400 is 16.1 meters long, 6.5 meters tall, and has a wingspan of 20.2 meters. The plane can fly at a maximum speed of 370 kph, with a range of 1,800 km.
> 
> The plane is also equipped with a MSS-6000 airborne maritime surveillance system which is made in Sweden.
> 
> The core of the MSS-6000 is a mission management system that links all available information together and presents a situation overview to the operator for interpretation and further action. The mission management system is based on GIS (Geographical Information System) technology, and the available information is presented against a backdrop of a digital nautical chart.
> 
> *These aircraft in the service to Vietnam will not only enhance the surveillance capabilities of the sea, it will have a certain airborne early warning capability.*
> 
> The Casa-212 can operate during the day and at night and in all weather conditions. It can take off and land at makeshift airports with short, narrow runways.
> 
> Equipped with two propeller turbine engines, the aircraft can fly at very low altitude, making it ideal for patrolling and identifying vessels at sea, spotting oil spills, and con- ducting rescue missions.
> 
> *MSS 6000 Maritime surveillance system to support oil spill, rescue operations in Vietnamese waters*
> 
> The Vietnamese contract comes from the Vietnam Marine Police, which has ordered systems for installation on three new CASA C212-400 aircraft – a project that will take three years to complete. The contract has an extensive scope, including installation and testing of the systems in the aircraft, establishment of a ground station and mission command center, and operational and technical training of personnel.
> 
> *SSC will supply a fully integrated MSS 6000 system, including SLAR (side-looking airborne radar), still and video cameras, airborne AIS (automatic identification system for ships), an IR/UV (infra-red/ultra-violet) line scanner, an FLIR (forward-looking infra-red) scanner, and communications via high-speed satellite data-link and HF (high frequency) radio.*
> 
> The customer will use the equipment for patrolling Vietnamese waters, detecting and responding to oil spills and illegal fishing activities, protecting the economic zone, and participating in search-and-rescue operations.
> 
> The MSS 6000 provides an effective means to monitor activities in national waters and to detect unwanted or illegal events, such as oil pollution, whether accidental or deliberate, and unauthorized fishing. The technology can also be applied to monitoring movement of ice, likely to become increasingly important as offshore oil and gas operations spread to arctic regions.
> 
> Data from the different sensors is processed, integrated, and presented in one integrated view to the operator. All recordings are annotated with GPS data and digitally stored in an on-board geographical database. Data and digital images are presented integrated with an electronic nautical chart data base and also correlated with the mission report, all at the operator’s finger-tips. All information from the mission is saved and can be compiled in mission reports and sent via the satellite data-link to a command center and/or cooperating units.
> 
> Since the technology was first launched in the 1970s, its capabilities have continually expanded. “With the MSS 5000, which we launched in the 1990s, we were able to do things we could only dream of in the 1970s,” says Colliander. “The MSS 6000 does things we didn’t even dream of.
> 
> “*We can safely say that we give a better performance than military surveillance systems at a fraction of the cost*. We’re now exploring what the advent of broadband communications enables us to do. We’ve put a lot of effort into developing software for the man/machine interface. We have kept the system user-friendly and intuitive: one operator can handle it all.”
> 
> *One of the MSS 6000’s capabilities is to read a ship’s name at a distance of 10 nautical miles in the middle of the night.* This makes it an important weapon in combating illegal fishing – cheating occurs frequently with the transponders on fishing vessels, so being able covertly to read ships’ names provides an important means of checking their true identity.
> 
> *FEATURES*
> 
> *Search radar*
> 
> *A search radar can be added to the system for general surveillance. The MSS 6000 is designed to interface to a forward looking or 360 degrees search radar for importing target tracks into the tactical map database.*
> 
> *SLAR*
> 
> *The Side Looking Airborne Radar*
> 
> *The main sensor of the MSS is the Side-Looking Airborne Radar (SLAR): a mapping radar for surveillance of large sea surfaces.*
> 
> View attachment 40317
> 
> 
> 
> The forward motion of the aircraft is utilized by the radar to scan the sea surface perpendicular to the flight track
> 
> Whereas a traditional radar typically obtains less than twenty echoes per radar scan from each target, the SLAR obtains up to a thousand. This gives a very high capacity for detecting small targets as well as for showing sea surface properties. Oil floating on the sea surface has a dampening effect on the sea clutter (capillary waves) resulting in less radar return to the aircraft from an oil slick than from the surrounding, undisturbed water surface, and this contrast is clearly visible in the SLAR image.
> 
> Objects with higher reflectivity to radar pulses than the sea surface will instead give a more intense radar return, and the resulting image will therefore show not only oil spills but also ships, boats and other small objects against a background picture of the sea surface.
> 
> Thus the SLAR is the ideal sensor for large area surveillance for both oils pollution and very small vessels, target types that are difficult at best, and often impossible, to detect with traditional radar technology.
> 
> The SLAR is a day and night sensor. It can be operated under all weather conditions.
> 
> MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy in positioning the SLAR image and will present the image either superimposed on a backdrop digital chart or display it as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".
> 
> View attachment 40318
> 
> 
> View attachment 40319
> 
> 
> *IR/UV SCANNER*
> 
> *The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of ship wakes, accident sites etc. It is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .*
> 
> 
> 
> The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of accident sites etc. It is capable of observing minute temperature differences on the water surface and is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .
> 
> The IR/UV scanner, operating in the 8.5-12.5µm region (IR) and in the 0.32-0.38 µm region (UV), provides high resolution imagery of oil spills and other features on the surface. IR data can be obtained both day and night providing information on the spreading of oil and also indicating the relative oil thickness within the oil slick. Usually 80% of the oil is concentrated within less than 20% of the visual oil slick. By using the IR information, the efficiency of clean-up operations can be greatly improved.
> 
> View attachment 40320
> 
> 
> UV data is obtained during daylight conditions, and is primarily used to map the entire extent of an oil slick, irrespective of thickness. The UV data adds confidence to the IR registration by distinguishing between natural thermal phenomena, such as cold upwelling water, from suspected oil pollution. It also assists an on-scene commander in determining the location of the thicker parts an oil spill, thus adding to the efficiency of the clean-up operation.
> 
> The MSS 6000 will infterface to any IR/UV line scanner on the market.
> 
> MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy and the capability to either superimpose the IR and UV images on a backdrop digital chart or to display the images as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".
> 
> The information from the aircraft can be used as input to oil drift modelling, thus further enhancing the aircraft as an asset in your oil spill contingency planning.
> 
> *SSC CAMERA AND VIDEO CAMERA*
> 
> *The MSS 6000 still and video cameras provide digital imagery and video documentation. Each frame is annotated with relevant mission information for future, tamper-free reference. The built-in DGPS system provides accurate and consistent annotation of all MSS 6000 observations.*
> 
> The MSS 6000 assists the operator in keeping track of all exposures made with the still camera and video sequence registered with the video camera by logging the time and position of each exposure and displaying this information in a selectable digital map overlay. Imagery and other information are linked to the geographical position and to the operator's comment, thus creating a comprehensive folder of data to document an observed activity on the sea surface.
> 
> Video recordings can be made from the FLIR(Forward Looking Infrared) as well as from the handheld video camera to allow close-up documentation of activities on the sea surface. The video is stored digitally and can be reviewed either in the aircraft or on the ground. Video sequences or selected frames can also be transmitted over the data link.
> 
> *AIS - AUTOMATIC IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM*
> 
> *A (normally silent) airborne AIS transponder is integrated with the MSS 6000 system.*
> 
> The AIS receives identity information from all transponder equipped ships with VHF distance in the patrol area. Live AIS information is displayed on the MSS 6000 map display and logged in the built-in target database. The possibility for the operator to immediatly compare AIS information with target information acquired from other sensors, will greatly facilitate the control of all sea surface activities within the patrol area.
> 
> AIS contacts plotted on a patrol of the St. Lawrence inlet (Courtesy Transport Canada)
> 
> 
> View attachment 40321
> 
> 
> 
> *FLIR /EO-SENSOR*
> 
> *Forward Looking Infrared-/Electro-Optical Sensor*
> 
> *A FLIR is an indispensable supplementary sensor for most mission profiles. It will add day and night identification and documentation capability to complement the information gathered from other on-board or external sources.*
> 
> The FLIR is integrated into the surveillance system. Imagery from the FLIR is annotated and stored together with the all other mission data. The FLIR can also be slaved to any target position or geographical reference in the MSS 6000 database as selected by the operator, thus facilitating the sorting and identification of targets detected by other means.
> Most FLIRs in the market can be integrated to the MSS 6000 system. The pictures show the Wescam MX-16 gyro estabilised sensor,the FLIR systems, the EuroFLIR 350 and the Star Q sensor.
> 
> View attachment 40323
> 
> 
> _Image from the EO/IR sensor _
> 
> View attachment 40324
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MWR - THE MICROWAVE RADIOMETER*
> 
> *If oil pollution control is one of your main missions, the Microwave Radiometer may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*
> 
> The SLAR will map the area of the oil slick. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner.Examples of Infrared and Microwave Radiometer registrations
> of an oil spill.
> 
> 
> View attachment 40325
> 
> 
> 
> *LFS - LASER FLOUROSENSOR*
> 
> *If pollution control is one of your main missions, the Laser Fluorosensor System may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*
> 
> The SLAR will detect and map the extent of an oil spill on the sea surface. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner. The Microwave Radiometer will measure the thickness and thusgive a better estimate of the volume of the spill.The Laser Fluorosensor can be said to take a "finger print" of some of the properties of the surface beneath the aircraft
> 
> A deeper analysis of the oil pollution is achieved from the Laser Fluorosensor. Its sensitivity to very thin oil films on the water surface, makes this sensor an interesting addition to the sensor package. Apart from the pollution related applications this instrument can also be used for hydrographical measurements and for algae monitoring.
> 
> The LFS-light can assist the operator in distinguishing between oil and other substances and to analyze the optical signature of different oil types which has been assembled from a catalogue of the optical properties of different oils from laboratory investigations.
> 
> On request a laser fluorosensor can be integrated into the MSS 6000 system.
> 
> *ATCOM - SATELLITE COMMUNICATION*
> 
> *For real-time in-flight data communication a SATCOM system is integrated with the MSS. With a high-speed SATCOM link the mission report with images and tactical map snapshots captured during the mission can be delivered while in the air or by e-mail or mobile phone after landing. With a low-speed SATCOM link only short messages with information of position and properties of observed activities on the sea surface will be delivered while in the air and mission report and pictures will follow by e-mail or mobile phone data transferred after landing. The recorded mission can also be replayed after landing in the aircraft or on a ground station.*
> 
> High-speed satellite communications is integrated in the MSS 6000 system for real-time information to other units in the surveillance operation.
> 
> *VMS - VESSEL MONITORING SYSTEM*
> 
> *The integrated Vessel Monitoring System (VMS) functionality provides a possibility to upload information on fishing vessels from the national fisheries authority to be accessed together with other mission data.*
> 
> View attachment 40327
> 
> 
> *DF - DIRECTION FINDER*
> 
> *The Direction Finder (DF) functionality provides direction information on radio transmitters, including the 406 MHz emergency frequency and decoding of COSPAS/SARSAT data.*
> 
> *MSS 6000 OPERATOR WORK STATION*
> 
> *The MSS 6000 operator workstation is innovatibly and ergonomically designed; from his or her seat, the operator has access to all system functionality.*
> 
> The MSS design allows for more than one operator workstation on board the aircraft, each with configurable functionality. Thus the work distribution between the operators may be configured to maximize mission effectiveness, according to the requirements of the customer organization.
> 
> *MISSION COMMAND CENTRE - MCC*
> 
> *With the Mission Command Centre SSC has developed a new addition to its maritime surveillance concept.*
> 
> View attachment 40328
> 
> _he MCC in command mode showing the tactical map_.
> 
> The first complete MCC will be delivered together with three MSS 6000 equipped aircraft to the Vietnam Marine Police.
> 
> The MCC provides an exquisite tool for the Mission Command to plan, follow, analyze and archive the missions of all flying units.
> 
> In the MCC the mission is prepared before flight and followed and managed from the ground in real time during the flight.
> 
> The MCC displays the flight track of all flying units on the tactical map. It receives data from the aircraft including position, updates, incident reports, AIS and target information, images and streaming video. The incoming data is shown on a digital map in the MCC to give an overview of the situation. From the MCC further instructions can be issued to the aircraft in real time on how to proceed with the mission.
> 
> All mission information is stored in a database from where it can be analyzed processed. Using the filter functions and background databases, important information about ship movements and the identity and activity of observed vessels can be easily visualized on the screen.


not bad! super analysis.
I did know yet that we will have some AWACS like aircraft with our *CASA-212-400






*


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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Stop drinking that HATERade, bro.


I only want to educate him. No hate, no love, brother! LOL



Viet said:


> ha ha ha ha...how about this one:
> 
> Windows Phone 8.1, high end *Nokia Lumia 930 *available now in Vietnam per Microsoft press release
> price tag of 12,999,000 VND ($610), contract-free
> 
> Nokia Lumia 930 Pre-Orders Officially Kick Off in Vietnam on July 1


Drop the price in half. Nobody buys junk at that price anymore.


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> not bad! super analysis.
> I did know yet that we will have some AWACS like aircraft with our *CASA-212-400*



Just a basic, limited AWACS capability because of the SLAR radar (according to one source) of the C-212. but I was not able to find the range of that radar. I guess it can scan sideways in the air and water at a pretty good range, so that gives a certain early warning capability.

I would estimate that the radar has a detection range of probably 200-250 km for a fighter jet size target.

And also, since it is scanning from the top while flying high, it can detect low flying targets such as cruise missiles, etc from a good distance, something that ground radars cannot do and that radar has also a very high resolution so it can pick up sea skimming missiles with very good detail.

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## xunzi

BoQ77 said:


> Are you Xiaomi marketing staff ?
> Why you not say good for Lenovo phone? whose better-seller in China, and other countries?


I'm more of a Lenovo fanboy. I have everything I used from Lenovo, screen, TV, laptop, and main phone. Xiaomi is more for gf use and personal test use. Lenovo represents professionalism. That's what I like about it. Having Lenovo in your hand means you are a serious tech player. I am aiming for this despite the high price. It worth it than Lumia 930 poor quality build, smaller battery, and slower.

*Lenovo Vibe Z2 Pro leaks with 6-inch 2560x1440 display, metal body*
Published: May 27 9:55 AM
More by this editor

Alex Wagner - Editorial Director of News and Content
@PhoneDog_Alex






Oppo Find 7 and LG G3 leading the charge. That’s why it should come as no surprise that, according to a new leak, Lenovo is planning a QHD smartphone of its own.

Weibo user Jiketao has posted several details images of a device referred to as the Lenovo Vibe Z2 Pro. The device looks to be a massive slab of a phone with a black front and a metallic, Vibe-branded backside.

According to the leaked spec sheet, the Vibe Z2 Pro is packing a 6-inch 2560x1440 display, 2.5GHz quad-core Snapdragon 801 processor, 16-megapixel rear camera with optical image stabilization and a 4000mAh battery. The device’s all-metal body is said to measure 7.7mm thick.






There’s no word yet on when the Vibe Z2 Pro might launch. _Engadget_ claims to have confirmed that these photos were taken during an internal Lenovo event, though, suggesting that an official debut could be near.

The Vibe Z2 Pro’s 6-inch screen is likely going to be a bit too large for some folks, but for anyone in the hunt for a big ol’ phablet, Lenovo’s new offering could be a good option. Not only does it look to have a quality construction, but it’s also got a super high-res display and minimal bezels that should help to make handling this giganto-phone a bit easier.

What do you think of the Lenovo Vibe Z2 Pro? Would you make it your daily driver?

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## Jlaw

Viet said:


> Just released: first Vietnamese brand tablet, called Rosa, a joint venture of *Microsoft, Viet Son Company and Intel Corporation.*
> 
> Chip Intel Quad-Core Trail T – Z3735D, Windows 8.1, Wifi and 3G version. coming with 2 models: 8 inch WiFi and 10 inch model.
> The 8 inch WiFi model costs VND 3,990,000 (US$188), the 10 inch VND 6,490,000 (US$305).



Viet Son, lol. sorry, but that name is classic.


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## Carlosa

*Weapons from Vietnam detained in Finland were en route to Ukraine*

July 24, 17:06 

ITAR-TASS: World - Weapons from Vietnam detained in Finland were en route to Ukraine

The incident occurred at Helsinki - Vantaa airport during a routine inspection late in June

HANOI, July 24./ITAR-TASS/. A large shipment of weapons from Vietnam which Finnish customs officers detained last week was en route to Ukraine for guarantee maintenance, Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh said on Thursday.


“The weapons were dispatched as part of Vietnam’s military technical cooperation program with Ukraine. That was in full compliance with international laws,” the Vietnamese officials explained refusing to elaborate on what types of weapons were discovered in the arrested container.

Le Hai Binh, however, said that representatives of Vietnam’s competent bodies were trying to settle all the customs formalities due under Finnish laws.

Finland’s Helsingin Sanomat newspaper reported last Friday that the Finnish customs had detained a large shipment of weapons, which was en route to Ukraine. The incident occurred at Helsinki - Vantaa airport during a routine inspection late in June.

The cargo contained, among other things, components to missile systems. The container was on its way from Vietnam to Ukraine via Finland. It was detained because it did not have the appropriate permission.

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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Viet Son, lol. sorry, but that name is classic.


Haaahaaa...not of what you have in mind.
Son is vietnamese and means mountain.


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## Jlaw

Carlosa said:


> *Weapons from Vietnam detained in Finland were en route to Ukraine*
> 
> July 24, 17:06
> 
> ITAR-TASS: World - Weapons from Vietnam detained in Finland were en route to Ukraine
> 
> The incident occurred at Helsinki - Vantaa airport during a routine inspection late in June
> 
> HANOI, July 24./ITAR-TASS/. A large shipment of weapons from Vietnam which Finnish customs officers detained last week was en route to Ukraine for guarantee maintenance, Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh said on Thursday.
> 
> 
> “The weapons were dispatched as part of Vietnam’s military technical cooperation program with Ukraine. That was in full compliance with international laws,” the Vietnamese officials explained refusing to elaborate on what types of weapons were discovered in the arrested container.
> 
> Le Hai Binh, however, said that representatives of Vietnam’s competent bodies were trying to settle all the customs formalities due under Finnish laws.
> 
> Finland’s Helsingin Sanomat newspaper reported last Friday that the Finnish customs had detained a large shipment of weapons, which was en route to Ukraine. The incident occurred at Helsinki - Vantaa airport during a routine inspection late in June.
> 
> The cargo contained, among other things, components to missile systems. The container was on its way from Vietnam to Ukraine via Finland. It was detained because it did not have the appropriate permission.



Vietnam supporting Russian separatists or Ukraine?


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## xesy

Jlaw said:


> Vietnam supporting Russian separatists or Ukraine?


We support no one. That's their internal bussiness. Vietnam does not have the power to interfere or voice supports to any sides.


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## Viet

some recent events


The Mine Advisory Group (MAG) – a non profit organisation will provide US$3.9 million for a landmine clearance project (5th phase) in the central province of Quang Binh.





a US Senate delegation led by Senate President pro tempore Patrick Leahy visited and presented gifts to disadvantaged people, including victims of dioxin, in the central city of Danang on April 19.





Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh receives RoK military delegation headed by counterpart Baek Seung in Hanoi.





...and a military delegation from Singapore, headed by Chan Yeng Kit.





PM Nguyen receives the former UK PM Tony Blair in Hanoi.






Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh meets Germany Foreign Minister Frank Walter Steinmeier in Brussel. Prime Minister Nguyen is expected to visit Berlin in October this year.


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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Vietnam supporting Russian separatists or Ukraine?


No, as the article suggests the misiles parts were dispatched as part of Vietnam’s military technical cooperation program with Ukraine. No clue, why those parts were not sent direct to Ukraine but via Finland.



Carlosa said:


> Just a basic, limited AWACS capability because of the SLAR radar (according to one source) of the C-212. but I was not able to find the range of that radar. I guess it can scan sideways in the air and water at a pretty good range, so that gives a certain early warning capability.
> 
> I would estimate that the radar has a detection range of probably 200-250 km for a fighter jet size target.
> 
> And also, since it is scanning from the top while flying high, it can detect low flying targets such as cruise missiles, etc from a good distance, something that ground radars cannot do and that radar has also a very high resolution so it can pick up sea skimming missiles with very good detail.


well, that sounds good to me. it is better then nothing.


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## Edison Chen

*China remains the largest importer of Vietnamese products as most of Vietnam’s export staples have been shipped to nowhere other than its northern neighbor in the first six months of this year, local customs statistics reveal.*

Vietnam posted US$71.11 billion exports in the year’s first half, a 15.3 percent increase from a year earlier, the Vietnam Customs said in a report released on July 18.

Imports stood at $69.60 billion, up 11 percent from the same period last year.

China is still the main market for most of Vietnam’s export staples, including rice, rubber, coal, computers, and electronic products and parts.

Vietnam exported nearly 3.3 million tons of rice in the first six months of the year, nearly 40 percent of which, or 1.3 million tons, were shipped to China.

Vietnamese rice exports to China were valued at $576 million, a 5.4 percent increase in volume and 8.9 percent increase in value, according to the Vietnam Customs figures.

The Southeast Asian country’s rubber shipments to China, meanwhile, stood at 139,000 tons, or $248 million. Even though these figures present a 23.6 percent decline in volume and 42.6 percent slump in value compared to the same period in 2013, China still accounted for 39.8 percent of the total rubber export turnovers of Vietnam in the Jan-Jun period.

Coal exports in the first six months nearly halved from a year earlier to only 4.6 million tons, but China still topped the list of importers, having imported 2.97 million tons, or 63.91 percent, from Vietnam.

China even surpassed the U.S. and Hong Kong to become the largest importer of electronic products and parts from Vietnam.

Exports of such commodities to China dropped 18.8 percent year on year to $926 million, accounting for 20.1 percent of the total turnovers.

The Jan-Jun shipments of Vietnamese-made footwear products to China, meanwhile, jumped 38.1 percent from a year earlier to $232 million, standing only behind the U.S., Japan and the EU.

China remains Vietnam’s largest importer in H1/2014


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## BoQ77

Edison, you posted to wrong place. Another thread, instead of this


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## Carlosa

*4 Reasons China Removed Oil Rig HYSY-981 Sooner Than Planned*
The reasons China withdrew oil rig HYSY-981 sooner than planned are complex but revealing about its intentions.

4 Reasons China Removed Oil Rig HYSY-981 Sooner Than Planned | The Diplomat






By Carl Thayer
July 22, 2014

On July 15 China announced that its mega oil-drilling platform Hai Yang Shi You 981 had completed its commercial exploration operations and would be towed back to Hainan Island. China’s withdrawal of its drilling platform came a full month before its original deadline of August 15.

The HYSY-981 conducted its operations in disputed waters lying within Vietnam’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). Vietnam responded by sending out Coast Guard and Fisheries Surveillance Force vessels to protest China’s breach of its sovereign jurisdiction. As a result of China’s decision to withdraw the HYSY-981, the physical confrontation at sea between Chinese and Vietnamese ships ended as quickly as it had started.

China’s July 15 announcement overshadowed news released on the same day that China had released thirteen Vietnamese fishermen that had been detained earlier.

These two developments point to a tactical shift in Chinese policy from confrontation at sea to diplomacy and political dialogue. The stage is now set for high-level talks between Beijing and Hanoi on how to repair their bilateral relations.

*Cessation of Normal Commercial Operations*

Chinese oil industry officials offered two explanations for the early cessation of commercial operations and the relocation of HYSY-981 to Hainan Island. According to the statement issued by the China National Petroleum Corporation, “the petroleum drilling and exploration operation of Zhongjiannan Project was smoothly completed on schedule on July 15th with the oil & gas shows found.” During the period the HYSY-981 was in operation, two exploratory wells were drilled.

Wu Shicun, president of China’s National Institute for South China Sea Studies (NISCSS), noted that the original schedule for the HYSY-981’s drilling operation was a conservative estimate that “reserved more time than actually needed.”

The China National Petroleum Corporation statement also noted that “a comprehensive assessment of hydrocarbon horizons is to be implemented based on the geological and analytical data collected through the drilling and exploration operation. Next phase arrangements are subject to the aforesaid comprehensive assessment.”

Prior to the drilling operations carried out by HYSY-981, the U.S. Energy Information Administration issued a report in 2013 that concluded that the area around the Paracel islands was unlikely to have significant potential for conventional hydrocarbons.

In May, Beijing-based diplomats reported that officials from the China National Offshore Oil Company privately confided that when initially requested to deploy the HYSY-981 drilling platform they declined, arguing that the exploration area in question was not a high priority as it was unlikely to contain significant hydrocarbon reserves.

Maritime security analysts with access to satellite imagery reported that in late May flaring from the HYSY-981 was observable, indicating that the drilling platform had discovered some hydrocarbons. These analysts also noted that about only ten percent of the hydrocarbon reserves would be recoverable for commercial use.

As a result of exploration activities Chinese analysts offered upbeat assessments of hydrocarbon reserves in the area west of the Paracels. Kang Lin, a researcher at China’s NISCSS, reported that a “good amount” of energy reserves with “huge commercial value” had been discovered.

*Typhoon Rammasun and Safety First*

A news report released by _Xinhua_ on July 16 offered a second explanation. China withdrew the oil-drilling platform to avoid damage due to an impending typhoon. The news report cited Qiu Zhongjian, a geologist from the Chinese Academy of Engineering, as stating the drilling program for HYSY-981 took into account “geological hazards, engineering issues and possible typhoons.” The _Xinhua_ report concluded, “for safety reasons, the test operation was not arranged immediately, because July is the beginning of the typhoon season.”

The initial announcement on the deployment of the drilling platform by Hainan Maritime Safety Administration stated, “South China Sea drilling work by M/V ‘Hai Yang Shi You 091’… [will be conducted from] from 02 May to 15 Aug…” It was widely assumed that the August 15 cut off date was related to the typhoon season. It also meant that China was avoiding an open-ended commitment.

In the second week of July meteorologists identified a brewing tropical storm heading for the Philippines. The storm quickly reached Category Three level and was named Typhoon Rammasun. The typhoon hit Luzon Island on July 15-16 before entering the South China Sea on a course headed for Hainan Island, southern China and northern Vietnam.

Analysts and commentators were divided over whether or not Typhoon Rammasun represented a threat to HYSY-981. Some analysts claimed that the drilling platform was constructed to withstand typhoons. But, as Sourabh Gupta of Samuels International has pointed out, “the rig had undergone repairs in 2013 and might not be able to withstand high-category typhoons during the typhoon season (July to September).”

What most commentators overlooked was that Typhoon Rammasun was a threat to the armada of over one hundred Chinese ships, vessels and boats providing protection to HYSY-981. Chinese officials obviously took the prudent decision to stand down operations. The HYSY-981 was towed back to the vicinity of Hainan Island and the opposing maritime forces dispersed to seek the safety of nearby anchorages and ports.

*U.S. Political and Diplomatic Pressure*

As soon as China announced its decision to withdraw its drilling platform, speculation arose as to whether or not other factors – such as geopolitics – might have influenced this decision. Bonnie Glasser, a China analyst at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), was quoted in _The New York Times_ as stating that she did not “rule out the possibility that the Chinese pulled out the rig as a face-saving way to defuse tensions with Vietnam.”

Other analysts pointed to pressure from the United States. They cited China-U.S. exchanges at the Strategic and Economic Dialogue held in Beijing from July 9-10, a Senate resolution (S. RES.412) adopted on July 10 calling on China to withdraw the oil drilling rig and accompanying ships, a call for a “freeze” in China’s provocative actions by Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Michael Fuchs at the fourth CSIS conference on the South China Sea on July 11, and a telephone conversation between President Barack Obama and Xi Jinping (July 14) in which Obama called for the constructive management of differences.

Hong Lei, the official spokesperson for China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, was quick to dismiss the influence of outside factors. Hong stated that the withdrawal of HYSY-981 was because it completed its drilling program early and “it has nothing to do with any external factor.” Wu Shicun, in speaking to the _Global Times_, argued, “the early conclusion of the oil rig operation has no connection with U.S. influence.”

*Prevent Vietnam’s Escape from China’s Orbit*

New information has emerged that a fourth factor may explain the early cessation of exploration activities by HYSY-981. Beijing withdrew its drilling platform early in order to prevent relations with Hanoi from worsening to such an extent that Vietnam not only took legal action against China but also aligned itself more closely with the United States.

Immediately after the oil rig crisis broke out, Vietnam’s leaders adopted a conciliatory diplomatic posture. Vietnam immediately requested the activation of the hot line between senior leaders. When this was declined, Vietnam offered to send a special envoy and then pressed for a visit by its party secretary general.

According to Minister of National Defense General Phung Quang Thanh, in answer to a question at the Shangri-La Dialogue, Vietnam made thirty or more efforts to initiate discussions with China but, as of May 31, Beijing had yet to reply to any of them.

The Vietnam Communist Party’s Central Committee convened its long scheduled ninth plenary session from May 8-14. A heated debate erupted about how Vietnam should respond to China’s challenge to Vietnamese sovereignty. The final communiqué issued after the plenum gave the impression that “it was business as usual” and gave no hint of internal party disagreements over South China Sea policy.

While the Central Committee was in session peaceful anti-China protests took place in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City and other urban areas on May 11. Anti-China protests by Vietnamese workers in Binh Duong, Dong Nai and Ha Tinh provinces turned violent on May 13-14. Relations with China plummeted after workers set fire to Chinese and other foreign-owned factories. China promptly organized ships to evacuate its nationals.

After the ninth plenum, and in the face of Chinese diplomatic stonewalling, pressure continued to build up within Vietnamese society and the party to take legal action against China. Prime Minister Dung became the most public advocate of this action but stated that timing was crucial. Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh went on record at the Shangri-La Dialogue that legal action was “a last resort.”

Nguyen Manh Hung, a Vietnam specialist, noted that a groundswell of opinion in Vietnam had begun to demand an escape from China’s orbit or “thoát Trung” in Vietnamese. In other words, public opinion was turning in favor of alignment with the United States.

On May 21, Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh took the unprecedented step of telephoning Secretary of State John Kerry to discuss tensions in the South China Sea. Minh also offered to coordinate with the U.S. in implementing concrete measures to further develop the comprehensive partnership between the two countries. Secretary Kerry invited Minh to Washington for full consultations.

Vietnam deferred Minh’s trip to Washington pending the outcome of the visit by China’s State Councillor Yang Jiechi. Vietnamese officials told this author that Minh’s immediate dispatch to the United States was “too sensitive” at this time.

On June 18 Councillor Yang arrived in Hanoi to attend the long-scheduled annual meeting of the Vietnam-China Joint Steering Committee for Bilateral Cooperation. This committee has oversight of the entire range of Sino-Vietnamese bilateral relations.

The discussions between Yang and his Vietnamese counterpart, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Pham Binh Minh, were not strictly convened to discuss South China Sea issues; but it is clear the oil rig crisis dominated talks. In private remarks Yang strongly advised Vietnam not to take legal action against China in the interest of repairing bilateral relations.

Yang also held meetings with Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and party Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong. The latter meeting was especially significant because it led to an informal understanding to find a mutually acceptable way out of the current impasse. In order to clear the way for bilateral discussions both sides agreed to conduct follow up discussions by party officials responsible for external affairs.

While Chinese and Vietnamese party foreign affairs specialists began sounding each other out, Vietnamese party leaders agreed to convene a meeting of the Central Committee specifically to focus on the South China Sea dispute and the proposal to initiate legal action against China. Given the ground swell of anti-China opinion in the party and society at large “to break out of China’s orbit,” it appeared likely that the Central Committee would not only approve legal action against China but also approve steps to align more closely with the United States. Foreign Minister Minh’s trip was approved and he is scheduled to visit Washington in September.

It was in this context that China decided to announce the early withdrawal of HYSY-981 from contested waters. According to retired General Nguyen Trong Vinh (xuandienhannom blog, July 16), China deliberately withdrew the oilrig to influence the outcome of the forthcoming Vietnamese party plenum. The coincidence of Typhoon Rammasun provided the pretext. If Chinese officials were concerned about the safety of HYSY-981 they should have left it in place rather than tow it towards Hainan Island where Typhoon Rammasun was headed.

China’s actions in withdrawing its oil drilling platform and protective armada should strengthen the hands of the “pro-China” or accommodationist faction with the Vietnam Communist Party. Vietnamese party conservatives generally have shown themselves to be risk adverse and cautious. China’s gambit is a gift to those who believe relations with Vietnam’s neighbour to the north can be managed best through party-to-party ties.

Other members of the party view national interests as more important than socialist ideology. They view Vietnam’s hierarchy of foreign relationships that puts China on the top as a “comprehensive strategic cooperative partner” as in tatters. They note that the United States, a mere “comprehensive partner” has done more to support Vietnam’s sovereignty than Russia, listed second in the hierarchy as a comprehensive strategic partner.

Vietnamese leaders now face some tough decisions. If they drop their legal case against China and hold back on stepping up defence and security cooperation with the United States, what assurance will they have that Chinese oil exploration ships and platforms will not return in the future? If Vietnam decides to go ahead with its legal case, what sanctions can they expect China to impose in return?

China’s actions in defusing tensions and turning from maritime confrontation to diplomacy should take the sting out of U.S. efforts to push strongly for adherence to the rule of international law at the forthcoming ministerial meeting of the ASEAN Regional Forum in August. It is also likely that China’s shift in tack will be welcomed among ASEAN members who are both anxious about China’s recent aggressive assertiveness and loathe to confront China directly.

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## Carlosa

*China's Big Course Correction in the South China Sea? *

Ted Galen Carpenter / The National Interest

July 25, 2014

East Asia, there are recent indications that Beijing may be adopting more conciliatory policies. China has unexpectedly removed a controversial oil-drilling rig that it had deployed in waters near Vietnam. In late June, Chinese president Xi Jinping conducted a high-profile summit meeting with South Korean president Park Geun-hye, seeking to improve relations with that country following last year’s tensions over Beijing’s proclamation of a new air-defense identification zone (ADIZ) in the East China Sea. Even the tone of China’s boilerplate warnings to the United States to stay out of the territorial disputes in the South China Sea has become somewhat more muted. Instead of shrill accusations of U.S. meddling, Chinese officials now urge Washington to be “fair” in its assessment of the issues at stake.

It is possible that the emergence of a more conciliatory stance may only be a temporary, purely tactical shift. But there is also a more encouraging alternative explanation. Beijing may finally have realized that it overreached in pressing its claims in the region, and that its behavior was provoking its neighbors to become more receptive to a U.S.-orchestrated containment policy directed against China. Given its own multitude of geostrategic headaches elsewhere in the world, Washington should at least explore whether a serious rapprochement with China can be pursued.

There is certainly enough evidence of rising anger among East Asian countries regarding China’s conduct over the past three or four years, and only the most obtuse Chinese officials could be unaware of the warning signs. The most obvious, and from Beijing’s standpoint, the most worrisome, development has been Japan’s growing assertiveness on security issues. Tokyo’s “reinterpretation” of Article 9 of the Japanese constitution to allow the country’s participation in collective-defense measures is a watershed event, but there have been other, more subtle changes. In June, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe stated that his government would support Vietnam and other nations that have territorial disputes with China. A few months earlier, Japan had joined with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to explore efforts to better secure navigation rights—a clear slap at China’s expansive territorial claims in the South China Sea.

Japan’s new approach clearly envisions a growing array of security partnerships. Tokyo and Canberra negotiated a deal to sell Japanese submarine technology to Australia. Likewise, Japan let it be known that it would consider providing naval patrol vessels to Vietnam, although because of Tokyo’s own tensions with China, the transfer might require some time. Security relations between Japan and India are at a point where respected scholars are now speaking of the possible emergence of a Japanese-Indian alliance.

But Beijing’s worries are not confined to Tokyo’s expanding initiatives in the security arena. China’s smaller neighbors are reacting to what they see as China’s increasingly aggressive behavior. Vietnam and the Philippines have noticeably increased their diplomatic and military cooperation. South Korea agreed to transfer a naval vessel to the Philippines navy in late June. Indonesia is shifting more of its military focus to deal with contingencies in Southeast Asia, implicitly because of growing concerns about China’s ambitions. Despite the extensive and mutually beneficial bilateral economic ties, Australia issued a pointed warning to China that its actions in the South China Sea were unhelpful and provocative. Shortly thereafter, Canberra agreed to a $11.6 billion purchase of 58 F-35 fighters from the United States—a major upgrade of the country’s air force.

It would not be surprising if more astute Chinese officials became alarmed at the surge of anti-China measures among its neighbors. Beijing’s abrasive behavior had reached the point of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy: widespread support for a policy led by the United States and Japan to contain China’s power in the region. Prudence would dictate a course correction and the adoption of a more conciliatory, circumspect approach on Beijing’s part.

That move also creates an opportunity for the United States to dampen the growing animosity in Sino-American relations and to help reduce overall tensions in East Asia. Such a prospect should be sufficient incentive by itself to prod U.S. officials to explore whether China’s recent, more accommodating behavior is genuine. But there are additional incentives. Washington’s geopolitical plate is overflowing with problems and crises, including the chaotic violence in Syria, Iraq, Libya and Ukraine, as well as the drug war-induced turmoil in Mexico and Central America. Especially alarming is that the relationship with Vladimir Putin’s Russia has deteriorated to the point that it is approaching Cold War-era levels.

Washington needs better relations with China so that U.S. officials have more latitude to address the multitude of other problems. It is especially important that the United States not end up in crisis mode with Moscow and Beijing simultaneously. Circumstances now dictate that a rapprochement with an apparently chastened China be explored in the most serious manner.

Ted Galen Carpenter, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a contributing editor at The National Interest, is the author of nine books and more than 550 articles and policy studies on international affairs.

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## Viet

Japan Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida will come from July 31 to Aug. 2. We will likely see more details on what of patrol vessels and how many pieces we will expect from Japan.

Japan FM to visit Vietnam to boost tie-ups in maritime security | GlobalPost

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## Carlosa

*Did China Blink in the South China Sea?*
Alexander Vuving, July 27, 2014 The National Interest

Very good article, please read, it reveals very interesting new information.

Did China Blink in the South China Sea? | The National Interest

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Did China Blink in the South China Sea?*
> Alexander Vuving, July 27, 2014 The National Interest
> Very good article, please read, it reveals very interesting new information.
> 
> Did China Blink in the South China Sea? | The National Interest


Yes, China blinks indeed due to our strong reaction, plus because of the supports we received from America and Japan. The latter scrapped the peaceful constitution during the confrontation around the deployment of the oil rig. Shinzo Abe cited Chinese action as one of the major reasons why his country needs to re-arm.

But Chinese will come again, I am sure, with more oil rigs, more warships and patrol boats. We should prepare today for the next confrontation. It is a long term strategic game. With no end in sight. Too much is at stake.

I am a bit angry because of our current weakness of our navy and airforce. the government should do more here.

What is your opinion?


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## BoQ77

Vietnam has been pro-China ... China know that and don't want to push more, a little more push would lead to the escape of Vietnam from China orbital ... to USA ...

Let's guess some effects after the escape ...

Vietnam allow access of US warships to Cam Ranh base, or Da Nang ...
So far, only non-combatant ships could call port ...
The joint-training, exercise in Vietnam between Vietnam and US Marine Corp ; Vietnam and Indian Army ...

Naval joint-exercised in Vietnam East Sea ( Phil West Sea )... Vietnam - Japan - Phillipines - US ...

Joint patrol of Vietnam - Phillipines navies ... more sport exchange ..

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yes, China blinks indeed due to our strong reaction, plus because of the supports we received from America and Japan. The latter scrapped the peaceful constitution during the confrontation around the deployment of the oil rig. Shinzo Abe cited Chinese action as one of the major reasons why his country needs to re-arm.
> 
> But Chinese will come again, I am sure, with more oil rigs, more warships and patrol boats. We should prepare today for the next confrontation. It is a long term strategic game. With no end in sight. Too much is at stake.
> 
> I am a bit angry because of our current weakness of our navy and airforce. the government should do more here.
> 
> What is your opinion?



I totally agree with you. I've been wondering actually if the reason why the slow rearming of the navy and air force could be political since as we all know, there is a pro china faction in the Vietnamese government that gives priority to good relations with the brotherly comrades in the north and they might see the rearming as "offensive" to their northern comrades. I don't know, but sometimes I wonder about that. China has shown their intentions very clearly since at least 1988, that was 26 years ago, a lot can be done in 26 years, but little was done.

Granted that Russia takes 5 years to build a ship, which is very long, but still........ everything get done in little pieces, little by little, very slowly, they took 3 years to negotiate to buy the Sigma ships. I know VN has limited resources, but the money is there, its a matter of priorities, the government waste billions of dollars every year in unneeded projects.

If things were not clear enough before, they are certainly clear now, I'm waiting to hear the announcements about arms purchases, we'll see..........



BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam has been pro-China ... China know that and don't want to push more, a little more push would lead to the escape of Vietnam from China orbital ... to USA ...
> 
> Let's guess some effects after the escape ...
> 
> Vietnam allow access of US warships to Cam Ranh base, or Da Nang ...
> So far, only non-combatant ships could call port ...
> The joint-training, exercise in Vietnam between Vietnam and US Marine Corp ; Vietnam and Indian Army ...
> 
> Naval joint-exercised in Vietnam East Sea ( Phil West Sea )... Vietnam - Japan - Phillipines - US ...
> 
> Joint patrol of Vietnam - Phillipines navies ... more sport exchange ..



I think what Vietnam is hoping for is to get a defense treaty with USA, like what the Philippines have, but it will be conditions for that, which they might not agree to, we'll see.......

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I totally agree with you. I've been wondering actually if the reason why the slow rearming of the navy and air force could be political since as we all know, there is a pro china faction in the Vietnamese government that gives priority to good relations with the brotherly comrades in the north and they might see the rearming as "offensive" to their northern comrades. I don't know, but sometimes I wonder about that. China has shown their intentions very clearly since at least 1988, that was 26 years ago, a lot can be done in 26 years, but little was done.
> 
> Granted that Russia takes 5 years to build a ship, which is very long, but still........ everything get done in little pieces, little by little, very slowly, they took 3 years to negotiate to buy the Sigma ships. I know VN has limited resources, but the money is there, its a matter of priorities, the government waste billions of dollars every year in unneeded projects.
> 
> If things were not clear enough before, they are certainly clear now, I'm waiting to hear the announcements about arms purchases, we'll see..........
> 
> 
> 
> I think what Vietnam is hoping for is to get a defense treaty with USA, like what the Philippines have, but it will be conditions for that, which they might not agree to, we'll see.......


If history is a guide, we can only achieve a good deal with the Chinese if we are in a position of strength.
Neglecting the army is a dead sin.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> If history is a guide, we can only achieve a good deal with the Chinese if we are in a position of strength.
> Neglecting the army is a dead sin.



You are 100% correct!!!


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam buckles under Chinese pressure*
By Zachary Abuza / Asis Times Online

Very good article revealing the decision making of the Vietnamese government behind the lines. This is not something that I like to read. If this is true, then it seems that the pro chinese faction is in control and that they have not learned anything from the latest events. Very disappointing !!!!!!! Opinions please!

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-290714.html


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam buckles under Chinese pressure*
> By Zachary Abuza / Asis Times Online
> 
> Very good article revealing the decision making of the Vietnamese government behind the lines. This is not something that I like to read. If this is true, then it seems that the pro chinese faction is in control and that they have not learned anything from the latest events. Very disappointing !!!!!!! Opinions please!
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-290714.html


That is a risky strategy indeed.


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## Viet

@Carlosa

that is really funny. Pls read the article from the state media and share your view. What do you think? I think both parties are shameless. they are better than any entertainer on stage.
Nguyen Thien Nhan, Bureau member receives the newly accredited Chinese Ambassador Hong Xiaoyong.

China ambassador pledges to cement ties with Vietnam | VOV Online Newspaper


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## eazzy

China is taking laos away from Vietnam. Laos and Cambodia are now with China. For Vietnam, China is in the north, the east and the west...no choice but to work with China for stability, security and development instead of being used by the US and then thrown away when they no longer need you.


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## Viet

eazzy said:


> China is taking laos away from Vietnam. Laos and Cambodia are now with China. For Vietnam, China is in the north, the east and the west...no choice but to work with China for stability, security and development instead of being used by the US and then thrown away when they no longer need you.


There is no evidence that you have drawn Laos and Cambodia into your orbit. No, we still exercise influence on the countries. More, we are trying to expand our sphere to Thailand and Philippines.

Yes, it looks that the pro-China faction has won the internal battle, but should the appeasement politics fail, the consequence will be not nice at all for anyone of us, including China.

Especially if you redeploy oil rigs into our EEZ. A new confrontation will be inevitable. The people of Vietnam never accept a government that sacrifices territory for a fake friendship. Your claim of the entire SC Sea is the source of tensions, nothing else. It's wise if you resume to negotiate with us.

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## Genesis

Viet said:


> There is no evidence that you have drawn Laos and Cambodia into your orbit. No, we still exercise influence on the countries. More, we are trying to expand our sphere to Thailand and Philippines.
> 
> Yes, it looks that the pro-China faction has won the internal battle, but should the appeasement politics fail, the consequence will be not nice at all for anyone of us, including China.
> 
> Especially when you redeploy oil rigs into our EEZ. A new confrontation will be inevitable. The people of Vietnam never accept a government that sacrifices territory for a fake friendship.



let me ask you a question, say you win, you decisively defeat China in a naval battle, then what? 

The Chinese power is not based on military, but by our infrastructure, like educated masses, manufacturing and service sectors, roads and rails, in terms of military, the research teams, experiences in design and manufacturing, funding and much much more.

Military is just a by product of the above. 


If Vietnam won decisively, would Vietnam be dominate? Would Vietnam be seen as a great power? Could Vietnam get the upper hand? Could Vietnam assert control if Vietnam won?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> that is really funny. Pls read the article from the state media and share your view. What do you think? I think both parties are shameless. they are better than any entertainer on stage.
> Nguyen Thien Nhan, Bureau member receives the newly accredited Chinese Ambassador Hong Xiaoyong.
> 
> China ambassador pledges to cement ties with Vietnam | VOV Online Newspaper



Shameless is right !!! This will only last until the next chinese grab and then back to the same place. Some people never learn....


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## Carlosa

eazzy said:


> China is taking laos away from Vietnam. Laos and Cambodia are now with China. For Vietnam, China is in the north, the east and the west...no choice but to work with China for stability, security and development instead of being used by the US and then thrown away when they no longer need you.



The problem with your assessment is that china is not actually working for "stability, security and development", that would be the right direction, but in reality the type of relationship that china creates is one where other countries become "client states", the modern term for the "feudal vassal states" or "tributary states" that china used to have in the past. That's where Myanmar was heading until they changed direction, not even north korea accepts to be in that condition, nobody wants that, so in the end, conflict is the end result and china ends up creating precisely what they are trying to avoid.

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## eazzy

Countries make themselfs client states of China. They alienate all other countries and end up relying only on China because China does not care what they do...they just want to make business. Actually China is remarkable for not wanting client states...most large countries want to exerts extensive influence on their smaller neighbours but China does not care...look at how many very small countries border china...yet China does not care...they do business where there is business to do, maybe cooperate on cross border criminality... that's about it...the only country that could be called a client state of China is NK, they made them self a client state of China after the fall of URSS...yet China does not care about what they do. Look at India Bhutan ties, Russia/transnistria/south Ossetia/many others...or Vietnam/Laos ties, that's what I call client states.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Shameless is right !!! This will only last until the next chinese grab and then back to the same place. Some people never learn....



plain surface ... hidden waves ... diplomat language ...
it's not any good if Vietnam officially declares they confront China like Julie Bishop did ...

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## Carlosa

eazzy said:


> Countries make themselfs client states of China. They alienate all other countries and end up relying only on China because China does not care what they do...they just want to make business. Actually China is remarkable for not wanting client states...most large countries want to exerts extensive influence on their smaller neighbours but China does not care...look at how many very small countries border china...yet China does not care...they do business where there is business to do, maybe cooperate on cross border criminality... that's about it...the only country that could be called a client state of China is NK, they made them self a client state of China after the fall of URSS...yet China does not care about what they do. Look at India Bhutan ties, Russia/transnistria/south Ossetia/many others...or Vietnam/Laos ties, that's what I call client states.



Where do you get that china does not want client states? All the evidence points to that.

Myanmar is the classic example, that's why they reversed direction, as corrupted and brutal that they are, they still have national pride and refused to become a client state. China used their investment and economic influence in order to exploit Myanmar resources in a way that is contrary to the interest of the country and its people, that gets followed by political intimidation, but not only that, at the same time, China supports and arms the rebels of the Shan province ( a drug trafficking region just about) in order to have even more leverage over Myanmar. No wonder Myanmar opened up to the west. China's embrace has fatal consequences.

Lets look at Cambodia, all that chinese economic influence was used the year that the Asean meeting was done in Cambodia in order to get Cambodia to follow the chinese line in such an obvious way that was even so embarrassing to the cambodian people that they had to change direction the following year. That's a client state, that's economic leverage used to pressure a country to follow the chinese line and that's what china wants to make out of all the countries in the region. And if the chinese line is not followed, then economic retaliation comes next.

The thing is, china is so greedy that even when countries are very friendly to china, like Malaysia, which was considered a country that was aligned with china for the most part, still, it makes no difference for them in the end because china still tries to grab territory from them, in this case James Shoal which is just 80 km from Malaysia's coat, so now the malaysians are like "what the hell are the chinese doing? We are very friendly and accommodating to them, we support them, and this is what we get?" So now they are starting to change direction.

Same thing is starting to happen with Indonesia; they were trying to stay neutral, but of course, china has to have claims over the area of the Natuna islands, so now Indonesia is rearming and getting ready to confront china

Same story with Vietnam, the chinese faction of the vietnamese government places relations with china above the country's interest, they kept trying to please china, but what did they get in return from their northern comrades? The oil rig!

China has become extremely successful in making enemies where there were none and pushing everybody into the arms of Uncle Sam.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> plain surface ... hidden waves ... diplomat language ...
> it's not any good if Vietnam officially declares they confront China like Julie Bishop did ...



I'm not sure about that, but lets hope that you are right.


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## eazzy

I don't think we have the same definition of a client state...of course countries try to influence each others, and the bigger a country is the easier it can influence other countries...should China be sorry for being big ? Or for defending its core interests ? 

China has closer ties with its neighbours every day.


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## EastSea

eazzy said:


> I don't think we have the same definition of a client state...of course countries try to influence each others, and the bigger a country is the easier it can influence other countries...should China be sorry for being big ? Or for defending its core interests ?
> 
> China has closer ties with its neighbours every day.



problem is that who is closed with China in your mind ?

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## Carlosa

eazzy said:


> I don't think we have the same definition of a client state...of course countries try to influence each others, and the bigger a country is the easier it can influence other countries...should China be sorry for being big ? Or for defending its core interests ?
> 
> China has closer ties with its neighbours every day.



Obviously we have different versions of reality.

When a country uses its power to influence and dominate others, its planting the seeds of its own downfall. All empires rise and fall, china is no exception to that rule. 

Instigating fear creates enemies.

Using power for the common benefit of all in the region creates friends and allies. 

I don't think china will understands that until it is too late.

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## Carlosa

EastSea said:


> problem is that who is closed with China in your mind ?



China has no real friends or allies, only temporary friends of convenience like Russia and Pakistan, both of them know that china is just a threat waiting to happen.

Until a few years ago, some countries in the region had the illusion that they could have friendly, mutually beneficial relations with china, but now all know that there is no such a thing. Like Bush said a few years ago after 9-11 "either you are with us or you are against us". I don't think USA made many friends after that........ China is going in the same direction.

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## eazzy

In ASEAN only Philippines and Vietnam are hostile to China. Vietnam is trying to make things better. So it leave us with just the Philippines. That's the reality.


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## BoQ77

eazzy said:


> In ASEAN only Philippines and Vietnam are hostile to China. Vietnam is trying to make things better. So it leave us with just the Philippines. That's the reality.



once Vietnam coupled with US, you would see more close friends.
anyway, Vietnam now quite lonely as independent, non-align country


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## Viet

Genesis said:


> let me ask you a question, say you win, you decisively defeat China in a naval battle, then what?
> 
> The Chinese power is not based on military, but by our infrastructure, like educated masses, manufacturing and service sectors, roads and rails, in terms of military, the research teams, experiences in design and manufacturing, funding and much much more.
> 
> Military is just a by product of the above.
> 
> 
> If Vietnam won decisively, would Vietnam be dominate? Would Vietnam be seen as a great power? Could Vietnam get the upper hand? Could Vietnam assert control if Vietnam won?


The last thing we want is conflict, friction and confrontation, least with China. All we want is peace and prosperity for our country. From China especially respect and equatility. But that seems impossible.

Your country China has hardened the stance much under Xi Jinping. He is determined to lead China back to the glorious past. That is very worrisome. As Carlosa puts it, you are creating a atmosphere of fear.


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## Viet

eazzy said:


> In ASEAN only Philippines and Vietnam are hostile to China. Vietnam is trying to make things better. So it leave us with just the Philippines. That's the reality.


Well, unlike Vietnam, the 3 claimants Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei don't have a formidable army to deter you from adventurism. Nor have they spine to stand up. The Philippines has the military backing of the United States.


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## eazzy

Formidable army. Lol.


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## Genesis

Viet said:


> The last thing we want is conflict, friction and confrontation, least with China. All we want is peace and prosperity for our country. From China especially respect and equatility. But that seems impossible.
> 
> Your country China has hardened the stance much under Xi Jinping. He is determined to lead China back to the glorious past. That is very worrisome. As Carlosa puts it, you are creating a atmosphere of fear.



Well no war means either status quo or one of us pushes the other back. Neither one of us will accept the former, and only one of us can do the latter, so..... At some point either negotiate or war.

So, I'm just talking, if war, what do you think, Vietnam wins decisively, then what? You become great power China becomes weak and back off forever? Can Vietnam even maintain that part of the ocean with its limited force even if PLAN is decimated? Assuming no casualties on Vietnam's part.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Well, unlike Vietnam, the 3 claimants Indonesia, Malaysia and Brunei don't have a formidable army to deter you from adventurism. Nor have they spine to stand up. The Philippines has the military backing of the United States.



Allow me a correction; Indonesia does have a decent military and is rearming fast as well as getting very serious about weapons manufacturing. They do have spine to fight (actually, they are very nasty in warfare). They were trying to stay neutral and until a year ago or so they were not clear if they have claims issues with china, but recent actions from China made it clear to them that they do, so now they are starting to react and they see china as a threat. China is making a big mistake making an enemy out of Indonesia, Indonesia is the dark horse in the region, they will become a significant regional power.

Totally agree with you regarding Malaysia and Brunei, those dance to the tune of chinese dollars (or Yuan / RMB). Malaysia response to chinese incursions is to pretend that it didn't happen: "chinese ships? what chinese ships? we didn't see anything" . Incredibly shameful !!!!


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## Carlosa

Genesis said:


> Well no war means either status quo or one of us pushes the other back. Neither one of us will accept the former, and only one of us can do the latter, so..... At some point either negotiate or war.
> 
> So, I'm just talking, if war, what do you think, Vietnam wins decisively, then what? You become great power China becomes weak and back off forever? Can Vietnam even maintain that part of the ocean with its limited force even if PLAN is decimated? Assuming no casualties on Vietnam's part.



Obviously Vietnam is not going to win a full war against china, but it can make china pay a heavy price and cause significant economic damage. It actually doesn't take too much to close the south china sea to navigation, Vietnam is very capable of doing that. The end result is massive economic damage for both and possibly a situation that brings other parties in. Is that in the benefit of china?

If we are talking ground war, I don't think china is foolish enough to want to get into that.

Is easy to start something or to overreach or to be overconfident and miscalculate the consequences, China is going in a very dangerous direction, its risking what they built in the last 30 years. 

Its a principle of physics, "an action creates a reaction", watch out for the reaction that you didn't expect or calculated.

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## Genesis

Carlosa said:


> Obviously Vietnam is not going to win a full war against china, but it can make china pay a heavy price and cause significant economic damage. It actually doesn't take too much to close the south china sea to navigation, Vietnam is very capable of doing that. The end result is massive economic damage for both and possibly a situation that brings other parties in. Is that in the benefit of china?
> 
> If we are talking ground war, I don't think china is foolish enough to want to get into that.
> 
> Is easy to start something or to overreach or to be overconfident and miscalculate the consequences, China is going in a very dangerous direction, its risking what they built in the last 30 years.
> 
> Its a principle of physics, "an action creates a reaction", watch out for the reaction that you didn't expect or calculated.



So pretty much Vietnam is intimidating enough to China to deter us. Cool. Well if that's truly the case problem solved.


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## Carlosa

Genesis said:


> So pretty much Vietnam is intimidating enough to China to deter us. Cool. Well if that's truly the case problem solved.



I think you don't understand that a country defending itself doesn't have to be as powerful as the attacking country in order to be successful. Vietnam already demonstrated that to USA and France in the past.

In ground warfare for example, it is a typical rule that the attacking forces need to be 3 to 5 times stronger than the defending forces in order to be successful. China has a much bigger army, but it is deployed in many fronts, it can't put all is resources in just one border.

Obviously china has the most advantage in a naval and air war, but there is still a price to pay.

Vietnam is not intimidating to china, but is not a pushover either. Its up to china to decide if Vietnam has enough power of deterrence or not, but I would suggest that they don't miscalculate as the americans did.

As Ho Chi Minh once said after the french defeat: "They lost because they don't understand our history". Does china understand Vietnam's history?

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## eazzy

I think Vietnam can't do anything alone.


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## terranMarine

Carlosa said:


> As Ho Chi Minh once said after the french defeat: "They lost because they don't understand our history". Does china understand Vietnam's history?



After ruling Vietnam for over a thousand years what do you think yourself?
Don't judge too fast about the French defeat, France did rule Vietnam as well including Japan during WW2. As for the Americans, it was also thanks to China's contribution to the Vietnam War. Vietnamese have taken credit for many things here on this forum, not surprising you guys feel superior of beating France, China and the Americans.


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## Viet

eazzy said:


> I think Vietnam can't do anything alone.


you are right.

the imbalance of power leaves us little room. in a hypthetical war with China, we will likely do what we had done successfully in the past: escalating and expanding the conflict, that means worsening the regional to the international war.

that means we will draw as many as possible other nations into the conflict: America, Japan, Australia, Russia, India, and others into the mess. the battlegrounds will be not limited to Vietnam and the South China Sea, but Southern China, Hainan island, the Gulf of Thailand, Laos and Cambodia, perhaps Thailand, too.

the last four major wars against France, America, China and Cambodia followed that pattern. That won´t be of much difference at next encounter. So it is not wise just to compare the actual (weak) armed forces of Vietnam to (strong) China and conclude the PLA will win. One should not forget the dynamic of a war. the outcome of a war is usually unpredictable.

plus, should the confrontation escalate into a war, Vietnam would seek a alliance with a major military power. the likelyhood that happens is 100 per cent.

did I mention that we could acquire nuclear weapons as last resort? in 10 years we could build it by ourselves.

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## Viet

eazzy said:


> Formidable army. Lol.


we have a long military tradition that goes back more than 1,000 years, no, 2,000 years with the Trung sisters.

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## eazzy

I guess Mongolia have the best army in the world then.


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## Viet

eazzy said:


> I guess Mongolia have the best army in the world then.


yes, back then, the Mongol hordes conquered China, but failed in Vietnam.
you see that is the difference. We defeated the Mongols, while you became slaves.

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## Carlosa

terranMarine said:


> After ruling Vietnam for over a thousand years what do you think yourself?
> Don't judge too fast about the French defeat, France did rule Vietnam as well including Japan during WW2. As for the Americans, it was also thanks to China's contribution to the Vietnam War. Vietnamese have taken credit for many things here on this forum, not surprising you guys feel superior of beating France, China and the Americans.



Remember, I'm not Vietnamese, I don't have the emotional, nationalistic stuff that vietnamese and chinese people have. I have a position, but I try to be objective, most of you guys have your perceptions colored by nationalistic emotions and you don't see things objectively.

I'm telling you, war with Vietnam will not be a walk in the park, if you were to know and understand vietnamese people, you would understand that. These people have a hell of a fighting spirit, they don't give up, they are like a spring, the more you push it down, the stronger that it comes back up.

Warfare is not just counting tanks and planes, etc. Look at the Afghans, nobody has been able to defeat them, just ask the russians and americans. How many tanks, planes and helicopters does the Taliban have? You can invade them, but they'll keep fighting until they push you out. The Vietnamese will accept the total ruin of their country and economy as the price of victory. How about china? I don't think so? Vietnam got invaded multiple times, but in the end, they always prevail.

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## ice bomb

Viet said:


> yes, back then, the Mongol hordes conquered China, but failed in Vietnam.
> you see that is the difference. We defeated the Mongols, while you became slaves.



Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yes, back then, the Mongol hordes conquered China, but failed in Vietnam.
> you see that is the difference. We defeated the Mongols, while you became slaves.



Right on brother !!!!

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## terranMarine

Carlosa said:


> Remember, I'm not Vietnamese, I don't have the emotional, nationalistic stuff that vietnamese and chinese people have. I have a position, but I try to be objective, most of you guys have your perceptions colored by nationalistic emotions and you don't see things objectively.
> 
> I'm telling you, war with Vietnam will not be a walk in the park, if you were to know and understand vietnamese people, you would understand that. These people have a hell of a fighting spirit, they don't give up, they are like a spring, the more you push it down, the stronger that it comes back up.
> 
> Warfare is not just counting tanks and planes, etc. Look at the Afghans, nobody has been able to defeat them, just ask the russians and americans. How many tanks, planes and helicopters does the Taliban have? You can invade them, but they'll keep fighting until they push you out. The Vietnamese will accept the total ruin of their country and economy as the price of victory. How about china? I don't think so? Vietnam got invaded multiple times, but in the end, they always prevail.



If we don't see things objectively then how come a Spanish person living in Vietnam repeating the rubbish the Vietnamese here have been spraying all the time? And the answer is no, they don't always prevail. Japan got defeated by America so Vietnam was liberated, after that the French wanted to control Vietnam again which failed. If they always prevail how come they were ruled by China for over a thousand years? Sorry my Spanish friend it is you who failed to understand that China knows its history with Vietnam. I'm not saying China won't get hurt in a war with Vietnam but if China was ever serious in the future Vietnam can say goodbye. Today there's only dispute in SCS with our Southern neighbor and not about border dispute so China does not need to go to war for that. The fact Vietnam does not dare shoot at our oil rig proofs they don't want to escalate to a war because they know it will be disastrous to them.

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## Carlosa

ice bomb said:


> Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.



brainwashed by commie books? If there is a place where that really applies, that's China, major wholesale revision of historical facts going on in order to suit the needs of current government policy such as:

the mongolians are chinese, so actually china was never defeated by mongolia, it was just an internal power struggle;

Gengis Khan was chinese,

etc, etc and not even talk about the bs of the historical rights to the south china sea and the "discovery" of those islands by chinese when actually the polynesian-malay cultures extensively navigated those waters all the way to Taiwan BEFORE the chinese !!!

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## Rechoice

ice bomb said:


> Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.



Yuan dynasty belong to Mongolian, they ruled Chinese bro.

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## Carlosa

terranMarine said:


> If we don't see things objectively then how come a Spanish person living in Vietnam repeating the rubbish the Vietnamese here have been spraying all the time? And the answer is no, they don't always prevail. Japan got defeated by America so Vietnam was liberated, after that the French wanted to control Vietnam again which failed. If they always prevail how come they were ruled by China for over a thousand years? Sorry my Spanish friend it is you who failed to understand that China knows its history with Vietnam. I'm not saying China won't get hurt in a war with Vietnam but if China was ever serious in the future Vietnam can say goodbye. Today there's only dispute in SCS with our Southern neighbor and not about border dispute so China does not need to go to war for that. The fact Vietnam does not dare shoot at our oil rig proofs they don't want to escalate to a war because they know it will be disastrous to them.



We are talking in general terms, not trying to be super accurate here, and I'm talking about the recent period, not trying to go back thousands of years, but anyway, if after 1000 years of chinese domination, they got out, rather than becoming assimilated like Manchuria, I would say that they prevailed. They were under Japanese occupation and they were also fighting the Japanese, how that would have ended up long term we don't know. The point is, they fight until they prevail whatever long it takes.

I don't think I'm talking rubbish here, I think at least most of my posts are quite factual, but of course we have different opinions.

You guys are overconfident and you are overreaching and you are doing precisely what the americans need. Vietnam did the right thing by not escalating over the oil rig, but don't misunderstand that as weakness or fear and keep pushing because in the end they will fight no matter what the consequences and most likely other parties will also step in. China is on a collision course with too many powers at the same time and that usually ends up pretty bad.


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## ice bomb

Carlosa said:


> brainwashed by commie books? If there is a place where that really applies, that's China, major wholesale revision of historical facts going on in order to suit the needs of current government policy such as:
> 
> the mongolians are chinese, so actually china was never defeated by mongolia, it was just an internal power struggle;
> 
> Gengis Khan was chinese,
> 
> etc, etc and not even talk about the bs of the historical rights to the south china sea and the "discovery" of those islands by chinese when actually the polynesian-malay cultures extensively navigated those waters, including Taiwan BEFORE the chinese !!!



..............and what exactly are we disagree again? You may learn to read my post carefully. 
I find it hard to digest your post when you are only making accuzations without proof.



Rechoice said:


> Yuan dynasty belong to Mongolian, they ruled Chinese bro.



What does that got to do with my post? You have trouble understanding basic english?


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## BoQ77

Mongol Yuan was defeated three times, and Tran dynasty killed a lot of Mongols and Chinese as Yuan stroops and generals.

No unrest in China by Han under Yuan rule ? If yes, share me then ?


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## Carlosa

ice bomb said:


> ..............and what exactly are we disagree again? You may learn to read my post carefully.
> I find it hard to digest your post when you are only making accuzations without proof.



My main point again is: china is going in the wrong direction, a policy of confrontation and attempt to control and dominate will only create enemies and will not bring the desired results. China would have much more to gain by using its power for the benefit of all in the region, but I guess old habits die hard. Well, we'll see how the game plays out.


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## Rechoice

ice bomb said:


> What does that got to do with my post? You have trouble understanding basic english?



Just reminder you that china was in worser situation when china was conquered by Mongolian,


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## Viet

ice bomb said:


> Vietnam was a vassal to Yuan. Learn your history, kid. You must be real brainwashed by commie books.


the Mongol hordes conquered Han China, took your women and made men to slaves.
that is the fact. Yes, we paid tribues to the Mongols. It is much better than being slaves, isn´t it? 

here is the figure of *Trần Hưng Đạo, *who led the Dai Viet army and crushed the Mongolians in the 13 century.









Ozair Akhtar said:


> Why not US transfer their 400 A-10s to Vietnam, Laos and other areas where they can easily launch an attack over China.


...says the best friend of China? nice idea. what we need now is to convince Uncle Sam.

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## Viet

a new order for Damen’s Song Cam shipyard in Haiphong City: a Australian aviation training ship (ATS) on the basis of OPV 2400 model, 90-metre, 2400-tonne, top speed of 23 knots, crew of 60 people, can carry a heli. The vessel will be delivered in 2017.

Aussies ship to be built in Vietnam in major contract blow | News.com.au

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## Viet

handover a new fishery surveillance vessel, coded KN-782

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## Viet

that news is not necessarily correct for this defence section, however I think this type of vessel may be suitable for defence purposes, too as the ships are made by composite materials. the result is ships are lighter than steel made ones.

about 200 composite tuna fishing ships will be built, funded by Japan-based company Yanmar Co.

In any cases It is another step forward to strengthen the ship building industry.

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## Genesis

Carlosa said:


> I think you don't understand that a country defending itself doesn't have to be as powerful as the attacking country in order to be successful. Vietnam already demonstrated that to USA and France in the past.
> 
> In ground warfare for example, it is a typical rule that the attacking forces need to be 3 to 5 times stronger than the defending forces in order to be successful. China has a much bigger army, but it is deployed in many fronts, it can't put all is resources in just one border.
> 
> Obviously china has the most advantage in a naval and air war, but there is still a price to pay.
> 
> Vietnam is not intimidating to china, but is not a pushover either. Its up to china to decide if Vietnam has enough power of deterrence or not, but I would suggest that they don't miscalculate as the americans did.
> 
> As Ho Chi Minh once said after the french defeat: "They lost because they don't understand our history". Does china understand Vietnam's history?



Air and Sea battle is about training and equipments, both of which we have better. You can't really hit us if we out range you by 50 km. Your missile will stop before it reaches us and the fact our radar is better is also for all to see. 


But that's not the point.

Let me ask you one thing, why was Vietnam colonized by the French? Because they became civilized and this a heavy price cannot be paid.

Just like now, they are no longer peasant farmers and other bums that will wait to be slaughtered. 

Someone said if I understand Vietnam, I understand Vietnam too much, because you are just like Chinese, but from a smaller and weaker state. 

We may have sacrificed 20 million during WW2 and then more millions in the civil war, even 300,000 thousand during Korea and thousands during 1979, but we cannot lose that many people again, anything above 500 will raise eyebrows, maybe even 500 or less. 


The past can be an indication, ONLY if all the variables remain the same. It didn't. 


Also Vietnam is a push over, Vietnam hasn't reform the army to fit modern warfare, I know because I follow its exercises, but China has, within 2020, China will complete major reforms, from joint chiefs, to reduced regions, better integration, to more responsibility to field officers and NCOs, and much more.

Until Vietnam is a modern army, it is easily defeated, just look at Chinese defense, I got a thread there about China's recent exercises and how newly modeled army easily defeated old, but the best equipped armies, and Vietnam isn't better equipped, not by a long shot.


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## Viet

Genesis said:


> Air and Sea battle is about training and equipments, both of which we have better. You can't really hit us if we out range you by 50 km. Your missile will stop before it reaches us and the fact our radar is better is also for all to see.
> 
> 
> But that's not the point.
> 
> Let me ask you one thing, why was Vietnam colonized by the French? Because they became civilized and this a heavy price cannot be paid.
> 
> Just like now, they are no longer peasant farmers and other bums that will wait to be slaughtered.
> 
> Someone said if I understand Vietnam, I understand Vietnam too much, because you are just like Chinese, but from a smaller and weaker state.
> 
> We may have sacrificed 20 million during WW2 and then more millions in the civil war, even 300,000 thousand during Korea and thousands during 1979, but we cannot lose that many people again, anything above 500 will raise eyebrows, maybe even 500 or less.
> 
> 
> The past can be an indication, ONLY if all the variables remain the same. It didn't.
> 
> 
> Also Vietnam is a push over, Vietnam hasn't reform the army to fit modern warfare, I know because I follow its exercises, but China has, within 2020, China will complete major reforms, from joint chiefs, to reduced regions, better integration, to more responsibility to field officers and NCOs, and much more.
> 
> Until Vietnam is a modern army, it is easily defeated, just look at Chinese defense, I got a thread there about China's recent exercises and how newly modeled army easily defeated old, but the best equipped armies, and Vietnam isn't better equipped, not by a long shot.


Aaaaahhhh...and what is your conclusion?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> brainwashed by commie books? If there is a place where that really applies, that's China, major wholesale revision of historical facts going on in order to suit the needs of current government policy such as:
> 
> the mongolians are chinese, so actually china was never defeated by mongolia, it was just an internal power struggle;
> 
> Gengis Khan was chinese,
> 
> etc, etc and not even talk about the bs of the historical rights to the south china sea and the "discovery" of those islands by chinese when actually the polynesian-malay cultures extensively navigated those waters all the way to Taiwan BEFORE the chinese !!!


If hypothetically in one day the Indians successfully conquered China, the Chinese would claim India was the land of their forefathers and Indian ocean belongs to China since ancient time.

Bro, talking to Chinese is like talking against the wall. Though they have a rich civilization, but many of them are arrogant and aggressive, hyper nationalistic and rude. moreover they lack of the basic understanding what right what wrong.

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## Carlosa

Genesis said:


> Air and Sea battle is about training and equipments, both of which we have better. You can't really hit us if we out range you by 50 km. Your missile will stop before it reaches us and the fact our radar is better is also for all to see.
> 
> 
> But that's not the point.
> 
> Let me ask you one thing, why was Vietnam colonized by the French? Because they became civilized and this a heavy price cannot be paid.
> 
> Just like now, they are no longer peasant farmers and other bums that will wait to be slaughtered.
> 
> Someone said if I understand Vietnam, I understand Vietnam too much, because you are just like Chinese, but from a smaller and weaker state.
> 
> We may have sacrificed 20 million during WW2 and then more millions in the civil war, even 300,000 thousand during Korea and thousands during 1979, but we cannot lose that many people again, anything above 500 will raise eyebrows, maybe even 500 or less.
> 
> 
> The past can be an indication, ONLY if all the variables remain the same. It didn't.
> 
> 
> Also Vietnam is a push over, Vietnam hasn't reform the army to fit modern warfare, I know because I follow its exercises, but China has, within 2020, China will complete major reforms, from joint chiefs, to reduced regions, better integration, to more responsibility to field officers and NCOs, and much more.
> 
> Until Vietnam is a modern army, it is easily defeated, just look at Chinese defense, I got a thread there about China's recent exercises and how newly modeled army easily defeated old, but the best equipped armies, and Vietnam isn't better equipped, not by a long shot.



I could simply say: Underestimate Vietnam at your own peril: but I'll add:

You got the facts wrong, china has superior assets in general and a lot more money to spend in defense, but Vietnam has been preparing quite a bit and preparing for future threats as well, just one example: Vietnam has been setting up a very sophisticated radar network, with both passive and active radars dedicated to detect stealth aircraft as preparation to when china deploys the J-20.

Vietnam has been reforming quite a lot contrary what you stated, the thing is, and this is a key point, the viet army is extremely secretive and they are extremely good at enforcing that, you are not going to see a leaked picture of anything that they don't want to be seen. Much of the new equipment that has been deployed in the last few years remains as "unconfirmed" and without official records until a supplier makes a leak by mistake such as recently a Russian company saying that Vietnam bought the Bal-E coastal missile defense system. Vietnam is already deploying Iskander ballistic missiles (that are better than anything that China has) and sophisticated air defense systems, etc, etc. If you really know about the vietnamese military, then you should know that you are not going to learn much about then by going to wikipedia, etc.

Air and sea, particularly sea is where Vietnam is weakest, they are working in that direction but it does take time, anyway, I tell you again, Vietnam is not a pushover and china will do well not to find that out the hard way.

Its true that chinese and vietnamese are very similar, but vietnamese are a lot nicer that chinese by a long shot. I know both very well.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> If hypothetically in one day the Indians successfully conquered China, the Chinese would claim India was the land of their forefathers and Indian ocean belongs to China since ancient time.
> 
> Bro, talking to Chinese is like talking against the wall. Though they have a rich civilization, but many of them are arrogant and aggressive, hyper nationalistic and rude. moreover they lack of the basic understanding what right what wrong.



You got that right !!!

Didn't you hear about the moon? The chinese were the first to do close up observation and cartography of the moon with telescopic instruments since ancient times, therefore, the moon has been an integral part of china since ancient times and china has undisputable rights to the moon since they were the first to "discover" and map the moon in ancient times.

Rich civilization in ancient times, now.............

Arrogant, agressive and rude? Tell me about it, I'm in the middle of them right now, I've been coming extensibly to china for the last 12 years, some years spending up to half the time there.

Another key feature is "untrustworthy"; In the 12 years that I've been doing business with them, I still have to find one whose word can be trusted. I always had good experiences dealing with Taiwanese people that do business in china, but mainland chinese, you just can't trust them, period! Taiwanese feel the same way about them.

People in the main coastal cities of china are becoming a lot more civilized than the rest of china, but still, it will take 2 more generations until mainland chinese people approach the level of Taiwanese people today.

To be fair, they have the good, the bad and everything in between like in all countries, but they have a definitely much higher share of the bad than many other countries. I've travelled to many countries and I lived in a few, but sorry to say, china is the less desirable of all of them (just my personal opinion). Every time I have to go there is like "oh God, have to go to china again"..........

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## ComradeNam

If you trust Chinese you are doom yourself like Tibetan self immolation in the hope to wake up their nationalism which is being slowing absorb. Vietnam survive bcause it learnt not to trust Chinese. For every generation of Vietnam goes to war with China though both countries share culture similarity. We survive because we know them well, we walk in their gut. they can't deceive us.

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## Carlosa

ComradeNam said:


> If you trust Chinese you are doom yourself like Tibetan self immolation in the hope to wake up their nationalism which is being slowing absorb. Vietnam survive bcause it learnt not to trust Chinese. For every generation of Vietnam goes to war with China though both countries share culture similarity. We survive because we know them well, we walk in their gut. they can't deceive us.



Words of wisdom !!!


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## ComradeNam

Carlosa said:


> I could simply say: Underestimate Vietnam at your own peril: but I'll add:
> 
> You got the facts wrong, china has superior assets in general and a lot more money to spend in defense, but Vietnam has been preparing quite a bit and preparing for future threats as well, just one example: Vietnam has been setting up a very sophisticated radar network, with both passive and active radars dedicated to detect stealth aircraft as preparation to when china deploys the J-20.
> 
> Air and sea, particularly sea is where Vietnam is weakest, they are working in that direction but it does take time, anyway, I tell you again, Vietnam is not a pushover and china will do well not to find that out the hard way.
> 
> Its true that chinese and vietnamese are very similar, but vietnamese are a lot nicer that chinese by a long shot. I know both very well.



The Chinese here or on other internet sites, they can only talk to make them feel better of themselves. The reality is they can do nothing to Vietnam. How many time Vietnam battle with them? More than 10 since ancient and we always came out on top. Not only we beat them, we beat their boss the Qing Manchus and the Mongol Yuan.

The Chinese have not won a single major battle in hundred years. while we brought the entire France empire to collapse with the battle of Dien Bien Phu which triggered France's colonies to fight for independent, we discouraged the American expand their influence in Asia. We faced two front war, South west battle to get rid of Chinese pawn Khmer Rouge, and Northern front against the Chinese massive invasion, and we still came out on top. 

The Chinese on here think by showing some copy cat weapons can really scare us? Only in their dream Vietnamese scare of Chinese. Just look at the Haiyan rig and how we response to that move, just make Vietnamese more angry and aggressive toward the Chinese.

*Le Duan and the Break with China
*
In the wake of WWII, everyone held the
international gendarme to be American imperialism. They could take over and bully all of the world. Everyone, including the big powers, were afraid of the US. It was only Vietnam that was not afraid of the US.

I understand this matter for my line of work has taught me it. The first person to fear [the Americans] was Mao Zedong. He told me, that is, the Vietnamese and Lao, that: “You must immediately turn over the two liberated provinces of Laos to the [Vientiane] [government]. If you do not do so, then the US will use it as a pretext to launch an attack. That is a great danger.” As for Vietnam, we said: “We have to fight the Americans in order to liberate southern Vietnam.” He [Mao] said: “You cannot do that. southern Vietnam must lie in wait for a long period, for one lifetime, 5-10 or even 20 lifetimes from now. You cannot fight the Americans. Fighting the US is dangerous”. Mao Zedong was scared of the US to that extent.

But Vietnam was not scared. Vietnam went ahead and fought. If Vietnam had not fought the US, then southern Vietnam would not have been liberated. A country which is not yet liberated will remain a dependent one. No one is independent if only one-half of the country is free. It was not until 1975 that our country finally achieved its full independence. With independence would come freedom. Freedom should be freedom for the whole of the Vietnamese nation.

*I have to repeat it like that, for before China had sent advisers to us [some of our Vietnamese] brothers did not understand. They thought the [Chinese] were very capable. But they are not so skilled,* and thus we did not follow [the Chinese advice]. In 1952, I left northern Vietnam for China, because I was sick and needed treatment. This was my first time abroad*. I put questions to them [the Chinese] and saw many very strange things. There were areas [which had been] occupied by Japanese troops, each with a population of 50 million people, but which had not [had] a single guerrilla fighter.*

When I returned from China, I met Uncle [Ho]. He asked me:
- —This was your first time to go abroad, isn’t that right?
- —Yes, I went abroad for the first time.
—- What did you see?
- —I saw two things: Vietnam is very brave and they [the Chinese] are not brave at all.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You got that right !!!
> 
> Didn't you hear about the moon? The chinese were the first to do close up observation and cartography of the moon with telescopic instruments since ancient times, therefore, the moon has been an integral part of china since ancient times and china has undisputable rights to the moon since they were the first to "discover" and map the moon in ancient times.
> 
> Rich civilization in ancient times, now.............
> 
> Arrogant, agressive and rude? Tell me about it, I'm in the middle of them right now, I've been coming extensibly to china for the last 12 years, some years spending up to half the time there.
> 
> Another key feature is "untrustworthy"; In the 12 years that I've been doing business with them, I still have to find one whose word can be trusted. I always had good experiences dealing with Taiwanese people that do business in china, but mainland chinese, you just can't trust them, period! Taiwanese feel the same way about them.
> 
> People in the main coastal cities of china are becoming a lot more civilized than the rest of china, but still, it will take 2 more generations until mainland chinese people approach the level of Taiwanese people today.
> 
> To be fair, they have the good, the bad and everything in between like in all countries, but they have a definitely much higher share of the bad than many other countries. I've travelled to many countries and I lived in a few, but sorry to say, china is the less desirable of all of them (just my personal opinion). Every time I have to go there is like "oh God, have to go to china again"..........


the people of Taiwan are quite different to mainland Chinese.
Taiwanese are nice, have a good behaviour and actually present the good side of China.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Correct, the same can be said of Singaporean chinese and some others.
> 
> Chinese are not the way they are just because they are chinese. People are a byproduct of their environment and as such, mainland chinese reflect the social environment that they were in for the last 100 years or more, which was not a very nice one, a lot of hardships, war and trying to survive. Over time that will change and hopefully they'll get to a level like the Taiwanese or *Singaporeans *of today, but it will take a while and in the meantime have to put up with them.....


Yes, look at Singapore Chinese. I find they are the best among Chinese descent.

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## Grand Historian

Carlosa said:


> Again, who is talking about ROC? Check mainland china recent history books.
> 
> Doesn't matter what the average chinese TODAY thinks about Gengis Khan, that doesn't change the current actions of the chinese state and the educational authorities. The revision of history starts now, give it enough years of that and enough brainwashing and the chinese kids of tomorrow will totally believe that Gengis Khan is chinese the same ways that chinese kids today believe that James Shoal is the southernmost part of china and has always been, because that's what they are taught in school.


Again provide the source,you claimed that mainland chinese history books claim Genghis Khan as their own yet you don't even show any texts.

Its not taught in Chinese schools I've even asked my relatives in mainland China,keep on spewing out your propaganda that PRC brainwashes their children.


----------



## ice bomb

Carlosa said:


> You know so little about china that is just laughable kid. When was the last time you talked to chinese businessmen about the quality of chinese workers? If you bother to ask them, they'll tell you that they suck, specially the young workers, they are useless, they are spoiled brats that are not good for anything. Go ahead, go to some business forum in china and ask, maybe you'll learn something.



Last time I checked China was still the largest trade nation. If the "quality" of chinese workers sucks then one wonder the quality of the workers in your country.....
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.



Carlosa said:


> I just told you I have nothing against chinese just because they are chinese, I almost marry a chinese once, like I said, I treat individuals as individuals, doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion they have. You are letting your pride get the best of you kid. I'm starting to think that you are a chinese fundamentalist.



That is not what you said: 
Quote:
When I talk about china and chinese people in general, at that point I talk in *general terms since all nationalities have typical features*. You don't like what I think about them when I talk in general terms, well, sorry, I understand that reality often hurts.

If you still dont realize how stupid you are, then you really need some help.....

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## Grand Historian

Carlosa said:


> Sorry, but you are getting incoherent, you need to relax and maybe tomorrow with a calm mind, read everything again, because you are not getting it and we are wasting valuable forum space, I think people want to read about military issues in these pages, not about this thing between you and me. Take a break kid.


Nothing will justify your racism and your blatant trolling.

@Hu Songshan I ask that you punish us both for off topic and ad hominems.


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## Carlosa

I think you need to read the definition of discrimination.

Its almost 1 am in china. Time to sleep. Good bye kid.


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## Aepsilons

Gentlemen, let's get back to Viet Nam military review and discourse. Thanks.

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Gentlemen, let's get back to Viet Nam military review and discourse. Thanks.



Thank you for your graceful advise and calm words of wisdom, an attitude worthy of a Samurai!

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Thank you for your graceful advise and calm words of wisdom, an attitude worthy of a Samurai!


Good morning from Germany. How are you today?
Very interesting and hot discussion between you and historian.


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## Viet

let me post some news relating to this thread topic 

60 overseas young Vietnamese visited Naval Brigade 171






the Japanese Government has decided to provide Vietnam with six used patrol boats (600-800t), some lifeboats and other equipments including naval training as part of a non-refundable aid, worth JPY500 million.





a private man Bui Hien develops a mini helicopter


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> let me post some news relating to this thread topic
> 
> 60 overseas young Vietnamese visited Naval Brigade 171
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Japanese Government has decided to provide Vietnam with six used patrol boats (600-800t), some lifeboats and other equipments as part of a non-refundable aid, worth JPY500 million.



As I know, 2 ships of Fishery Surveillance and 4 ships 600-800 ton ...


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> As I know, 2 ships of Fishery Surveillance and 4 ships 600-800 ton ...



Japanese only giving you 2 coast guard patrol boat and 4 fishing boat. 

The 2 patrol boats are the old Teshio class vessel. 630 ton and 17knot max speed. You can't play cat and mouse game with this boat. 

The other 4 boats are steel commercial fishing boats up to 800ton.

@Viet, you did not beg hard enough. You only get weak boats.


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## BoQ77

Black Flag said:


> Japanese only giving you 2 coast guard patrol boat and 4 fishing boat.
> 
> The 2 patrol boats are the old Teshio class vessel. 630 ton and 17knot max speed. You can't play cat and mouse game with this boat.
> 
> The other 4 boats are steel commercial fishing boats up to 800ton.
> 
> @Viet, you did not beg hard enough. You only get weak boats.



do you have the link for source?


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> do you have the link for source?



I am the source, you can trust me. Only 2 Teshio class patrol boats this time. In far future, maybe Japan give more Teshio class when they decommissioned. But only 2 now, the other 4 are steel fishing boats which is even slower.

Slow and old boats, I recommend not to play the ramming game with them.


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## vtnsx

Black Flag said:


> I am the source, you can trust me. Only 2 Teshio class patrol boats this time. In far future, maybe Japan give more Teshio class when they decommissioned. But only 2 now, the other 4 are steel fishing boats which is even slower.
> 
> Slow and old boats, I recommend not to play the ramming game with them.


lol, for all i know, Japanese people either provide something worth high quality or don't provide at all.


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## William Hung

vtnsx said:


> lol, for all i know, Japanese people either provide something worth high quality or don't provide at all.



What about JAV? are they all high quality? you don't think there are mediocre ones? I rest my case.

They only giving 2 secondhand Teshio class boats.


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## vtnsx

Black Flag said:


> What about JAV? are they all high quality? you don't think there are mediocre ones? I rest my case.
> 
> They only giving 2 secondhand Teshio class boats.



Well that speaks about them.


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## eazzy

^ GrandHistorian I admire your patience.


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## BoQ77

Grand Historian said:


> You can use that excuse for anything,just because we are not sure doesn't invalidate my claims.
> 
> You just dug your own grave you claim the Baiyue as Viet yet we see Austroasiatics,Austronesians,Tai Kadai and Hmong Mien speakers.
> 
> Read my above posts not all of Guangdong and Guangxi rebelled,even the Yue label is from China there is no proof that the Baiyue of the Han dynasty even used this ethonym.
> 
> Proximity doesn't automatically make people relatives,and you have provided absolutely nothing in regards to whether Baiyue viewed each other as kin.
> 
> SCS has nothing to do with what we're discussing,why are PDF Vietnamese so academically incompetent?



@Grand Historian : you keep trolling 1 subject on every thread you joined, at least you should mention that this is military news thread

@Hu Songshan : you banned me several times because just 1 offtopic post ... why you leave this guy troll around with off-topic post ? it's unfair to others

@Kaan


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> You are trolling in Vietnam thread





Viet said:


> let me post some news relating to this thread topic
> 
> 60 overseas young Vietnamese visited Naval Brigade 171
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Japanese Government has decided to provide Vietnam with six used patrol boats (600-800t), some lifeboats and other equipments including naval training as part of a non-refundable aid, worth JPY500 million.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a private man Bui Hien develops a mini helicopter



You posted wrong photo. This page has photo of all the 14 teshio class boats active in Japan CG. 2 of that will be donated. Some were active since 1980 lol. 

日本海上保安厅 PM型中型巡视船_环球军事网

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## BoQ77

Grand Historian said:


> Then why do you Vietnamese always try to claim Southern China?
> 
> I simply refute Vietnamese claims yet this somehow get's twisted to trollin?



You are free to express your opinion, but you spam your opinion thousand times .. post off-topic
that's spammer
Get it ?


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I suggest you read the whole thread and look again at the many, many instances of trash talk, which most often come from chinese members and started before i even came to this forum. If there is one thing that I haven't seen much of in the vietnamese threads is just discussion of military issues, threads quickly slide into name calling and insults between chinese and vietnamese members. Saying that I was the first is not accurate at all.
> 
> The moon thing is clearly a joke and I can hardly be considered offensive to an ethnic group since it is related to the issue of unsubstantiated claims.
> 
> When I talk about features of chinese people which I clearly stated that are general statements and I clearly stated that I see individuals as individuals, no matter what the nationality, race or religion, I never say ALL and I also explained clearly (to Viet, earlier that same day) why mainland chinese developed those features as opposite to Taiwanese or Singaporean ethnic chinese, did you bother to look at that? If you look at the WHOLE of what I wrote, rather than taking some statements out of context, you'll see that there is no racism there, but anyway, I don't think you are looking at things with impartiality. Did you analyze your own statements in the past by the way?
> 
> And to be fair, the apology from grand historian came while I was writing my post, so I didn't see it, its good that he does a bit of self reflection, but anyway, I'm not the only one having issues with him, many people have lately and most people got a bit tired of him.



Hey you are writing off-topic.  Please kindly practice what you preach and hit the report button on you own post for off topic. 

On topic: Teshio class, in service since 1980.


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## EastSea

Black Flag said:


> Hey you are writing off-topic.  Please kindly practice what you preach and hit the report button on you own post for off topic.
> 
> On topic: Teshio class, in service since 1980.



Related to ODA òf Japan, until now detail information does not disclosed officially. If it should be Teshio class is good enough because after upgrading with new facilities, it is OK. it belong to ships class 500t.

But it reported there is a Bizan class, it is only 180t.

This Bizan ship class is small patrol boat, 40 meters long, power volume is 180 tons, a crew of 25 people, one 20 mm cannon armed JM-61 Vulcan six-barreled Gatling. The maximum speed of these vessels is 35 knots (65 km / h).






Nhật cung cấp tàu tuần duyên loại nào cho Philippines, Việt Nam ? | Võ Văn Thưởng

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> On topic: Teshio class, in service since 1980.


I am really disappointed by our japanese friends. I don't know what they are thinking. I did hope more but I see is junks. We must spend huge sums to modernise the boats.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Japanese only giving you 2 coast guard patrol boat and 4 fishing boat.
> 
> The 2 patrol boats are the old Teshio class vessel. 630 ton and 17knot max speed. You can't play cat and mouse game with this boat.
> 
> The other 4 boats are steel commercial fishing boats up to 800ton.
> 
> @Viet, you did not beg hard enough. You only get weak boats.


I am afraid you are right.

The japanese government said they will provide what we need to keep the status quo in the SCS. How can we do it with some small outdated vessels? Is there anything I am missing?


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## eazzy

^ Ungrateful...usually when Japanese give aid the receiver just say thx and bye, but Viets don't even say thanks, they just complain...

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I am really disappointed by our japanese friends. I don't know what they are thinking. I did hope more but I see is junks. We must spend huge sums to modernise the boats.



Well, they are free...... They said the 4 fishing boats can be upgraded to patrol boats, but I'm not sure its worth it. This is pretty much symbolical, but still.... disappointing.

Regarding the actual upcoming ODA related ships (the ships now are not ODA, these are free), I've been having doubts for some time about whether those are worth it. What's the point of getting ships that are likely not the right type needed (too small) and expensive since a ship made in Japan will be more expensive than one made in Vietnam when actually Vietnam can make the whole range of ships needed? What's the point of doing that just to get low interest financing (ODA)?

Anything bought with ODA financing has to be made in Japan and right there, that makes it not worth it when it comes to patrol ships in my opinion. Save some money because of low interest financing, but pay much more for the price of the ship, I don't see the logic there.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> I am afraid you are right.
> 
> The japanese government said they will provide what we need to keep the status quo in the SCS. How can we do it with some small outdated vessels? Is there anything I am missing?



I don't know, ask your Japanese friend. Maybe they angry that you people cheated on their ODA money, which came from their taxpayers. Maybe they want to give Philippines bigger boats first. They will also decommission old patrol boats 700ton-1000tons. Maybe they can change their mind and give bigger boats if you write letter to Abe and shame him lol.



Viet said:


> I am really disappointed by our japanese friends. I don't know what they are thinking. I did hope more but I see is junks. We must spend huge sums to modernise the boats.



Junks? 

I wonder how your friend will think of this word.



Carlosa said:


> Well, they are free...... They said the 4 fishing boats can be upgraded to patrol boats, but I'm not sure its worth it. This is pretty much symbolical, but still.... disappointing.
> 
> Regarding the actual upcoming ODA related ships (the ships now are not ODA, these are free), I've been having doubts for some time about whether those are worth it. What's the point of getting ships that are likely not the right type needed (too small) and expensive since a ship made in Japan will be more expensive than one made in Vietnam when actually Vietnam can make the whole range of ships needed? What's the point of doing that just to get low interest financing (ODA)?
> 
> Anything bought with ODA financing has to be made in Japan and right there, that makes it not worth it when it comes to patrol ships in my opinion. Save some money because of low interest financing, but pay much more for the price of the ship, I don't see the logic there.



Maybe having boats built in Japan mean that they dont have to worry about some ODA money goin into someone's pocket haha.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> But of course!!! Only good things come out from Spain (well, not in football this year).
> 
> Actually that family of planes were originally made by the spanish company CASA (later integrated into Airbus), the C in C-295 stands for the company name CASA, the C-295 and C-235 are just stretched and enlarged versions of the CASA-212 Aviocar which has been around for many years and is still very successful and very reliable. Vietnam currently has 3 of the C-212 marine patrol version in the coast guard.




Airbus sẵn sàng bán máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295-AEW cho VN

(Quốc phòng Việt Nam) - Công ty Airbus (châu Âu) và IAI (Israel) đã sẵn sàng bán loại máy bay cảnh báo sớm C-295 AEW cho Việt Nam.

Just a Vietnamese article : Airbus ready to sell C-295 AEW to Vietnam

Airbus and IAI ( Israel ) are ready to sell C-295 with IAI ( Elta system ) radar as C-295 AEW to Vietnam.


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## Rechoice

It is non refund aid, better than nothing.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, they are free...... They said the 4 fishing boats can be upgraded to patrol boats, but I'm not sure its worth it. This is pretty much symbolical, but still.... disappointing.
> 
> Regarding the actual upcoming ODA related ships (the ships now are not ODA, these are free), I've been having doubts for some time about whether those are worth it. What's the point of getting ships that are likely not the right type needed (too small) and expensive since a ship made in Japan will be more expensive than one made in Vietnam when actually Vietnam can make the whole range of ships needed? What's the point of doing that just to get low interest financing (ODA)?
> 
> Anything bought with ODA financing has to be made in Japan and right there, that makes it not worth it when it comes to patrol ships in my opinion. Save some money because of low interest financing, but pay much more for the price of the ship, I don't see the logic there.


I see you and me share the similar thought.
there are probably more in the internal discussion between JP and VN government that are not disclosed to the public yet.

I am missing some details in the defence cooperations. any joint development of warships and subs?


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## BoQ77




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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I see you and me share the similar thought.
> there are probably more in the internal discussion between JP and VN government that are not disclosed to the public yet.
> 
> I am missing some details in the defence cooperations. any joint development of warships and subs?



Yes, we agree here; I don't know what's going, not enough details in the news release yet, they didn't even mentioned the ship types, so everything is just speculation.

I'm not aware of any joint development project and it would be to soon to expect anything since Japan just now opened up to the export market for military hardware. They are going to sell submarines to Australia, but I'm not aware of anything else.

I would not expect Vietnam to buy Japanese submarines, those are $700 million a pop (the Kilos are $300 million). Actually, I'm not even aware that Vietnam has any ship in development, so I don't know what they are planning to do. I know they need a ASW corvette, around 1000 tons, but no further information yet.

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## BoQ77

*US considers lifting ban on lethal weapon sales*
Posted on August 4, 2014

(VOV) -Vietnam and the US are seeking wider cooperation in various fields after the US ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam is removed.
Gen. Truong Quang Khanh on August 4 received visiting US Senator Bob Corker, Ranking Member of the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.





Khanh affirmed that the Vietnam government and people always attach great importance to maintaining peaceful relations with other nations, in the best interest of national development.

During periods of peace, the Vietnam State and People’s Army have continually developed defence ties with other countries, including the US, Khanh told his guest.

Regarding East Sea issue, he reiterated Vietnam’s consistent policy of settling disputes through peaceful measures in accordance with international law.

*Senator Corker said the US Senate is considering lifting its ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam.*

He also highlighted the Vietnam-US fruitful relations, adding that the two sides are nearing agreement on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement.

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## Viet

I feel the US is close to lift the arms embargo.

The US Think Tank - Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) - calls the US government to end the arms embargo and assists Vietnam in becoming “a credible deterrent" against China.

My fovorite toys are Aegis destroyers and Tomahawk cruise missiles.

Threatening China: Influential Washington Think Tank Pushes US War Drive in the South China Sea | Global Research

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I feel the US is close to lift the arms embargo.
> 
> The US Think Tank - Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) - calls the US government to end the arms embargo and assists Vietnam in becoming “a credible deterrent" against China.
> 
> My fovorite toys are Aegis destroyers and Tomahawk cruise missiles.
> 
> Threatening China: Influential Washington Think Tank Pushes US War Drive in the South China Sea | Global Research



I was going to say exactly the same thing.

Do you know how much is an Aegis cruiser? $2 billion

The Tomahawk is good in terms of range (and right there US will not sell it to VN because it violates the 300 km range limit as per arms treaty limitations). But other than range, there is nothing special there, its actually old technology. Russia, China and India already went further than the tomahawk.

What you really want is the Brahmos (match 2.8 speed), and a little bit later, the Brahmos M (match 3.5 speed). The M in Brahmos M stands for mini, the Brahmos is actually a big missile (about 9 meters long) and is heavy, so SU-30 can't carry it unless there is structural modifications of the airframe (India is getting that in the new SU-30SM's so that they can carry the missile), so they decided to make an smaller version, 6.5 meters long and lighter so it can be carried in many platforms. They are testing the missile now. SU-30MK2 can carry 3 Brahmos M missiles. Range is 300 km.

With an speed of match 3.5, its very, very difficult to stop that missile, speed is the key factor in anti ship missiles. Subsonic missiles are easy to intercept, but supersonic is not easy at all, ships detect the missiles when they are already too close, before the ship's missile defenses have time to react.

That's why VN should not get into sophisticated, expensive surface ships, those ships would not be able to survive, they'll get destroyed by chinese cruise missiles (including supersonic cruise missiles) fired from stand off range from multiple launch platforms including HK-6 bombers. VN needs to concentrate in submarines and small, cheap surface ships at this point.

Any ship, including Aegis cruisers, can be overwhelmed by saturation missile attacks.


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## pher

Viet said:


> I am afraid you are right.
> 
> The japanese government said they will provide what we need to keep the status quo in the SCS. How can we do it with some small outdated vessels? Is there anything I am missing?


Haha, they were even unable to keep their Diaoyu island status quo, how do you expect them to help you keep status quo in SCS? you delusion yourself too much.



Viet said:


> I see you and me share the similar thought.
> there are probably more in the internal discussion between JP and VN government that are not disclosed to the public yet.
> 
> I am missing some details in the defence cooperations. any joint development of warships and subs?


you can keep dreaming which is sweet, but reality is harsh.


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## Carlosa

Very good article guys, It explains a lot of what is going on behind the Vietnamese government current policies with China and USA:

*A US-Vietnam Alliance? Not So Fast. The Diplomat*

A US-Vietnam Alliance? Not So Fast. | The Diplomat


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## eazzy

I don't know where Vietnam is going...are the young people anti communist there ? Also it seems like nationalism and fear of Chinese dominance is prevailing. Really Color Revolution is all I can think of when I see this country.

I don't know where Vietnam is going...are the young people anti communist there ? Also it seems like nationalism and fear of Chinese dominance is prevailing. Really Color Revolution is all I can think of when I see this country.


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## Sasquatch

BoQ77 said:


> @Grand Historian : you keep trolling 1 subject on every thread you joined, at least you should mention that this is military news thread
> 
> @Hu Songshan : you banned me several times because just 1 offtopic post ... why you leave this guy troll around with off-topic post ? it's unfair to others
> 
> @Kaan



That's incorrect you were banned for multiple reports of trolling that was added to already in place infractions for off topic post. That's also incorrect you were banned only 2 times for similar behavior however I have given grand historian and infraction for off topic posts.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I was going to say exactly the same thing.
> 
> Do you know how much is an Aegis cruiser? $2 billion
> 
> The Tomahawk is good in terms of range (and right there US will not sell it to VN because it violates the 300 km range limit as per arms treaty limitations). But other than range, there is nothing special there, its actually old technology. Russia, China and India already went further than the tomahawk.
> 
> What you really want is the Brahmos (match 2.8 speed), and a little bit later, the Brahmos M (match 3.5 speed). The M in Brahmos M stands for mini, the Brahmos is actually a big missile (about 9 meters long) and is heavy, so SU-30 can't carry it unless there is structural modifications of the airframe (India is getting that in the new SU-30SM's so that they can carry the missile), so they decided to make an smaller version, 6.5 meters long and lighter so it can be carried in many platforms. They are testing the missile now. SU-30MK2 can carry 3 Brahmos M missiles. Range is 300 km.
> 
> With an speed of match 3.5, its very, very difficult to stop that missile, speed is the key factor in anti ship missiles. Subsonic missiles are easy to intercept, but supersonic is not easy at all, ships detect the missiles when they are already too close, before the ship's missile defenses have time to react.
> 
> That's why VN should not get into sophisticated, expensive surface ships, those ships would not be able to survive, they'll get destroyed by chinese cruise missiles (including supersonic cruise missiles) fired from stand off range from multiple launch platforms including HK-6 bombers. VN needs to concentrate in submarines and small, cheap surface ships at this point.
> 
> Any ship, including Aegis cruisers, can be overwhelmed by saturation missile attacks.
> 
> View attachment 42027


LOL you are right. I was just thinking BIG.

Aegis destroyers will be affordable if America and Japan fund our naval build-up. Like America helped South VN. Tomahawk is good at targeting long distant targets when our navy operates in the Pacific. the US is superpower. she writes the rules and dictates the world order. who dares to sanction her if she violates the rule?

Why shouldn´t we dream bigger? Similar to China and Japan, with some 6 sophisticate destroyers, we could build own 3 fleets: North, Central and South fleet. Vietnam government says she wants to have a blue water navy in 2030. the dream may come faster than planned. We have a large maritime domain to protect.

As for Brahmos, I am sceptical of toys from India. I think It is better to have russian made Yakhonts on warships, such as the Gepards.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very good article guys, It explains a lot of what is going on behind the Vietnamese government current policies with China and USA:
> 
> *A US-Vietnam Alliance? Not So Fast. The Diplomat*
> 
> A US-Vietnam Alliance? Not So Fast. | The Diplomat


well, in my opinion the internal fight within VPC is still ongoing as the public letter of 60 senior members revealed.
It is hard to predict the outcome. it depends on how much pressure the pro-china faction feels coming from the public, the armed forces and internal colleagues.


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## xesy

I want to share this article to all Viet brothers and sisters on PDF, if anyone could find a translated version of it to share with other mems that would be great.

Trung Quốc Muốn Gì ? | HoangSa.ORG V3- Diễn đàn tuyên truyền về vấn đề biển đảo-chủ quyền dân tộc

Any mems who is curious can use google translate. It's a good article. The title means "What does China want?"


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> well, in my opinion the internal fight within VPC is still ongoing as the public letter of 60 senior members revealed.
> It is hard to predict the outcome. it depends on how much pressure the pro-china faction feels coming from the public, the armed forces and internal colleagues.



I think you are right, that was the whole idea of the letter. I hope there is enough pressure on them to make some changes.


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## xesy

Carlosa said:


> I think you are right, that was the whole idea of the letter. I hope there is enough pressure on them to make some changes.


Yo my man Carlosa. Can you read VNese? It would be great if you could take a look at the article in my above post. Don't worry the author has a pretty neutral tone and the content is no ultra nationalist smearing on China either. I am looking forward to your comment, cause you are a good poster, your post always worths reading.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> LOL you are right. I was just thinking BIG.
> 
> Aegis destroyers will be affordable if America and Japan fund our naval build-up. Like America helped South VN. Tomahawk is good at targeting long distant targets when our navy operates in the Pacific. the US is superpower. she writes the rules and dictates the world order. who dares to sanction her if she violates the rule?
> 
> Why shouldn´t we dream bigger? Similar to China and Japan, with some 6 sophisticate destroyers, we could build own 3 fleets: North, Central and South fleet. Vietnam government says she wants to have a blue water navy in 2030. the dream may come faster than planned. We have a large maritime domain to protect.
> 
> As for Brahmos, I am sceptical of toys from India. I think It is better to have russian made Yakhonts on warships, such as the Gepards.



You are thinking and dreaming big lol. What you are asking takes a lot of money, big money.
In order to fight china as an equal, you need to have a whole ecosystem that goes with the Aegis destroyers, etc. You need satellites to do ocean surveillance and to provide target tracking for stand off missiles, a whole force of MPA / ASW aircrafts, AWACS, etc, etc. Have to keep in mind that china is already building 2 aircraft carriers also. Have to have plenty of ASW ships also in order to take care of those chinese subs. A lot of things bro, it does take a pile of money, but the idea is nice.

Frankly, I would put the money with the air force, missiles, including ballistic missiles and air defense and a big number of good submarines.

The Brahmos is India / Russian project, the marketing for export is done by both of them, no worries, really.

I seriously doubt that either USA or Japan will give significant money to VN, but it would be nice.



xesy said:


> Yo my man Carlosa. Can you read VNese? It would be great if you could take a look at the article in my above post. Don't worry the author has a pretty neutral tone and the content is no ultra nationalist smearing on China either. I am looking forward to your comment, cause you are a good poster, your post always worths reading.



Thank you man, I will tonight. I'm just ending a quick break and I have to continue working, crazy busy these days. No worries, I can read radical views also, I can be quite radical myself, but I try to hide it, ha ha. Take care.


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## William Hung

xesy said:


> I want to share this article to all Viet brothers and sisters on PDF, if anyone could find a translated version of it to share with other mems that would be great.
> 
> Trung Quốc Muốn Gì ? | HoangSa.ORG V3- Diễn đàn tuyên truyền về vấn đề biển đảo-chủ quyền dân tộc
> 
> Any mems who is curious can use google translate. It's a good article. The title means "What does China want?"



Can you summarise the article? and there are Viet female members on PDF? who?


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## xesy

Black Flag said:


> Can you summarise the article? and there are Viet female members on PDF? who?


Well, the article goes deep into Chinese nationalism and its relationship with communism, and how CCP uses Chinese nationalism to firmly take hold of power. The article mostly talks about China and the Beijing Olympics, and how Chinese atheletes were obsess with the gold medal due to their nationalism. You might find this offensive but I think the author made some good points


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## William Hung

xesy said:


> Well, the article goes deep into Chinese nationalism and its relationship with communism, and how CCP uses Chinese nationalism to firmly take hold of power. The article mostly talks about China and the Beijing Olympics, and how Chinese atheletes were obsess with the gold medal due to their nationalism. You might find this offensive but I think the author made some good points



Is that all the main points? no big deal... 
Athletes playing hard because of their national pride? who doesn't know that?


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## xesy

Black Flag said:


> Is that all the main points? no big deal...
> Athletes playing hard because of their national pride? who doesn't know that?


No, it's about Chinese athletes cried when they only got silver and bronze medals, like it was the end of the world. And then when they got the gold medal, Chinese cheered for the CCP more than the athletes themselves.


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## William Hung

xesy said:


> No, it's about Chinese athletes cried when they only got silver and bronze medals, like it was the end of the world. And then when they got the gold medal, Chinese cheered for the CCP more than the athletes themselves.



Hmm what's so strange about that?


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## Viet

xesy said:


> I want to share this article to all Viet brothers and sisters on PDF, if anyone could find a translated version of it to share with other mems that would be great.
> 
> Trung Quốc Muốn Gì ? | HoangSa.ORG V3- Diễn đàn tuyên truyền về vấn đề biển đảo-chủ quyền dân tộc
> 
> Any mems who is curious can use google translate. It's a good article. The title means "What does China want?"


the article is too long, can be a bit shorter. I haven´t read throughout the texts, but Chinese intention is clear: it wants to return to the glorious days of the former Middle Kingdom. China is as the central state of the universe, and vassal states pay tributes to the Emperor, now president of the glorious people´s country. the last 100-150 years, where chinese suffered, were just a snapshot of time.

...and that is not good at all for Vietnam. Because unlike Korea, the another sinized country in Asia besides Vietnam, ancient China considered our country as part of the Middle Kingdom.


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## Viet

eazzy said:


> I don't know where Vietnam is going...are the young people anti communist there ? Also it seems like nationalism and fear of Chinese dominance is prevailing. Really Color Revolution is all I can think of when I see this country.


well, if history is a guide, yes, VN has a history of radical revolutions when the actual rulers failed to protect the territory and national interests. And yes, VN has a history: if anyone regardless of man or women, expelled the invaders and united the country, became the ruler of the country and people.


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## xesy

Black Flag said:


> Hmm what's so strange about that?


Maybe @Viet has better summary than mine. The whole point is that CCP and Chinese govt no longer aim for a better society, where there is equality and justice (i.e ideal socialism), but to restore the former glory of the Middle Kingdom Empire, and they are ready to do anything, to sacrifice anything to do that.


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## Viet

more exciting news from the United States. Both Congress and Senate support lifting weapons embargo and call for a new chapter in the relationship with VN.

Senator Bob Corker said the US Senate supports lifting the ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam at meeting with State President Truong in Hanoi on August 5. Plus America has interest to expand civilian nuclear cooperation.






Rep. J. Randy Forbes, Chairman of the Seapower and Projection Forces Subcommittee, and Rep. Colleen Hanabusa, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, introduced a bipartisan resolution on July 31, which among other things, affirms a US policy to establish and implement a policy framework with the Vietnamese government.

The interests include the sale or transfer of United States defense articles appropriate for the development and maintenance of Vietnam’s external defense capabilities.

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## eazzy

Nice.


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## Viet

eazzy said:


> Nice.


yes, we are witnessing a historic moment my friend.



xesy said:


> Maybe @Viet has better summary than mine. The whole point is that CCP and Chinese govt no longer aim for a better society, where there is equality and justice (i.e ideal socialism), but to restore the former glory of the Middle Kingdom Empire, and they are ready to do anything, to sacrifice anything to do that.


actually, communism is alien to China. Chinese are more capitalists. the ruling elites just use communism as empty cover.


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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> Yo my man Carlosa. Can you read VNese? It would be great if you could take a look at the article in my above post. Don't worry the author has a pretty neutral tone and the content is no ultra nationalist smearing on China either. I am looking forward to your comment, cause you are a good poster, your post always worths reading.



Xin chao Bro, I had to translate it using Bing translator (google translator is blocked in China). The translation is pretty bad, but I get the idea.

Yes, the article is correct. Even chinese that have very bad opinions of the government and by the way, most of the people that I talk to in china, tell me that the government is bad and they don't believe anything the government says, but as soon as there is a foreign policy issue, the chinese will rally behind the flag and they follow the government line, never mind that they used to say that they don't believe anything the government says. Chinese are very nationalistic, period. Obviously the government manipulates the nationalistic feelings of the people.

The way they go for the gold medals is an expression of their nationalism; Americans are also that way by the way.

In these type of foreign policy issues, I would classify the chinese into 2 groups, the brain washed ones, those are the one that believe the government propaganda and all the bs about the historical claims, etc. Those are pretty fanatical most of the time and is usually a waste of time to talk to them.

The other group are smart, they know that all that is incorrect, but they believe that is ok to do because that's what big powers do.

By the way, I like what you wrote with Gambit, you defended yourself very well man.



Viet said:


> yes, we are witnessing a historic moment my friend.
> 
> 
> actually, communism is alien to China. Chinese are more capitalists. the ruling elites just use communism as empty cover.



Indeed !!!!!! I see some second hand, refurbished F-16's coming up (like what Indonesia is getting).

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## ComradeNam

Vietnamese don't really need U.S weapons. They request U.S lift ban is as gesture of friendship. Vietnam can easily modernize their army with many arm supplers from Eastern and Western Europe; France, Isreal, Germany, Netherland, Russia. Czech...etc.


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## Carlosa

To the Viet bros and sis, anybody from Danang here by the way?


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## xesy

@Carlosa There is one thing you did not mention is that the feeling behind nationlism of Chinese people is not the love for the country, but more of a revenge desire for what the country suffered in the last 200 years. It's dangerous because the last time, it was Nazi Germans who felt the same after its defeat in WW1 and they made a miraculous come back. Well, we all know what happened after that. Chinese govt is playing with fire, and their people nationalism is a big big gun power keg. Once it exploses, there will be wars, maybe even a world war.


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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> @Carlosa There is one thing you did not mention is that the feeling behind nationlism of Chinese people is not the love for the country, but more of a revenge desire for what the country suffered in the last 200 years. It's dangerous because the last time, it was Nazi Germans who felt the same after its defeat in WW1 and they made a miraculous come back. Well, we all know what happened after that. Chinese govt is playing with fire, and their people nationalism is a big big gun power keg. Once it exploses, there will be wars, maybe even a world war.



Yes, I would say that their nationalism has 2 parts, the standard nationalistic feeling which is already intense enough, plus, like you said, the kind of revenge nationalistic feelings after 2 centuries of being put downed by western colonial powers.

In my experience with them, I would say that standard nationalism is the one that actually most chinese people have. The other type is prevalent in more selected circles such as the military, many people in government, many intellectuals, etc.

Love for the country and their ethnic cultural background is a feeling that they definitely have, I can tell you that for sure.

I would say that China now is behaving in a way very similar to Japan before WW2.



ComradeNam said:


> Vietnamese don't really need U.S weapons. They request U.S lift ban is as gesture of friendship. Vietnam can easily modernize their army with many arm supplers from Eastern and Western Europe; France, Isreal, Germany, Netherland, Russia. Czech...etc.



You are very right, but I think Vietnamese weapon purchases from USA would be a symbol of a deepening friendship and possible alliance, so from that perspective, why not? And if they happened to be cheap, even better.


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## eazzy

So China is WW2 Japan and Nazi Germany at the same time...wow scary...


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## NarThoD

any news for possible aquisition of T-90s for VPA ? VPA will need more advanced MBTs to keep up with PLA since their MBT arsenal are mostly just leftovers from Vietnam War

VPA are even still operating this grandpa  although i like the design actually 





Good Luck for Vietnam!


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## Carlosa

NarThoD said:


> any news for possible aquisition of T-90s for VPA ? VPA will need more advanced MBTs to keep up with PLA since their MBT arsenal are mostly just leftovers from Vietnam War
> 
> VPA are even still operating this grandpa  although i like the design actually Good Luck for Vietnam!



No worries, grandpa guns in Vietnamese hands kill chinese very effectively.

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## Rechoice

NarThoD said:


> any news for possible aquisition of T-90s for VPA ? VPA will need more advanced MBTs to keep up with PLA since their MBT arsenal are mostly just leftovers from Vietnam War
> 
> VPA are even still operating this grandpa  although i like the design actually
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck for Vietnam!



This is new toy.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> To the Viet bros and sis, anybody from Danang here by the way?


I lived in Nha Trang when I was a young boy.
Da Nang was one of the cities at my last visit. I am very impressed of it. it is much more modern and developed than Nha Trang.



ComradeNam said:


> Vietnamese don't really need U.S weapons. They request U.S lift ban is as gesture of friendship. Vietnam can easily modernize their army with many arm supplers from Eastern and Western Europe; France, Isreal, Germany, Netherland, Russia. Czech...etc.


almost western weapon systems, be fighter jets or warships or drones contain US made parts. Even if they don´t contain US made parts at all, the US as the sole superpower on this planet can force its allies to abandon arms sales to unfriendly or hostile countries.

So if we want to buy German warships and submarines, we need OK from Uncle Sam.

Germany stops Russian arms deal | Germany | DW.DE | 04.08.2014


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## Viet

Rechoice said:


> This is new toy.


what is it?
it is not Pantsir-s1 because the system looks much different.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> what is it?
> it is not Pantsir-s1 because the system looks much different.



That old model of AA armor ZSU-234

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## Viet

NarThoD said:


> any news for possible aquisition of T-90s for VPA ? VPA will need more advanced MBTs to keep up with PLA since their MBT arsenal are mostly just leftovers from Vietnam War
> 
> VPA are even still operating this grandpa  although i like the design actually
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck for Vietnam!


we have about 2,300 tanks of such old models. T-90s would be nice. some sources say the army looks to purchase them.
though we have upgraded T-54/T-55 tanks, that carry israeli made 105mm cannon, reportedly able to penetrate any modern tanks at close distance (1,000m).






Vietnamese armed forces modernize its fleet of main battle tanks T-55 to standard T 54/55M3 2503124Â -Â Army Recognition


----------



## Viet

a rare guest from North Korea: FM Ri Su Yong


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## Viet

now it is official. with approval of the US Senat, Col. Viet Xuan Luong becomes Brigadier General. Barrack Obama promoted him before. Luong is the first Vietnamese-born general/flag officer in the U.S. military. He is Deputy Commander of the 1st Cavalry Division, fort Hood (Texas).

Fort Hood’s Luong to become first Vietnamese-American general | www.statesman.com


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## eazzy

Glorifying traitors...


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## William Hung

eazzy said:


> Glorifying traitors...



Don't say that. After the upcoming VN revolution, he is going to be an advisor of the Vietnam Salvation Army.

@Viet your post about US senate agreeing to get rid of the arms embargo is wrong, all news source say they're only "considering" it. Where is your source?


----------



## Viet

eazzy said:


> Glorifying traitors...


come on, you can congratulate him.



Black Flag said:


> Don't say that. After the upcoming VN revolution, he is going to be an advisor of the Vietnam Salvation Army.
> 
> @Viet your post about US senate agreeing to get rid of the arms embargo is wrong, all news source say they're only "considering" it. Where is your source?


you are a funny guy. aren´t you happy?

Brigadier General Luong is deputy commander of the 1st Cavalry Division of the US Army. If any, he will lead his elite unit and fight side by side with the glorious Vietnamese army against our enemies.

Sounds promising to me.

as for the second question, here is the source:
Vietnam, US bolster armaments cooperation | VOV Online Newspaper

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I lived in Nha Trang when I was a young boy.
> Da Nang was one of the cities at my last visit. I am very impressed of it. it is much more modern and developed than Nha Trang.



When was your last visit to Danag? Did they have the dragon bridge when you were there? Danang Its changing fast, it just keep getting better and better. Its considered the most livable city in Vietnam and also the most progressive and efficient one. People go there, they fall in love with it and move in (myself included).

i was in Nha Trang once, its nice, but different, its very tourist oriented now. A lot of Russians go there.



Viet said:


> what is it?
> it is not Pantsir-s1 because the system looks much different.



Its basically a 4 barrel 23 mm anti aircraft gun with radar guidance.
Its old but its actually very effective. Its going to get upgraded, mainly the electronic systems and I think they are going to add some Igla infrared missiles to it .


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> When was your last visit to Danag? Did they have the dragon bridge when you were there? Danang Its changing fast, it just keep getting better and better. Its considered the most livable city in Vietnam and also the most progressive and efficient one. People go there, they fall in love with it and move in (myself included).
> 
> i was in Nha Trang once, its nice, but different, its very tourist oriented now. A lot of Russians go there.


I went to Da Nang two years ago. The bridge was near of completion.
Yes, I like the city too, but my heart belongs to Nha Trang.
Do you have any plans?

I travelled further to central region, Hue, Quang Tri and Quang Ngai. For me these 3 cities were a big disappointment, economically lagging far behind of Nha Trang and Da Nang. Hue is very melancholic, so the people of Hue.


Carlosa said:


> Its basically a 4 barrel 23 mm anti aircraft gun with radar guidance.
> Its old but its actually very effective. Its going to get upgraded, mainly the electronic systems and I think they are going to add some Igla infrared missiles to it .


sounds good to me


----------



## Nike

Rechoice said:


> This is new toy.



come on, Shilka is not produced anymore how can you call it a new toy. You have S-300P and Pantsyr, that's your new toy


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I went to Da Nang two years ago. The bridge was near of completion.
> Yes, I like the city too, but my heart belongs to Nha Trang.
> Do you have any plans?
> 
> I travelled further to central region, Hue, Quang Tri and Quang Ngai. For me these 3 cities were a big disappointment, economically lagging far behind of Nha Trang and Da Nang. Hue is very melancholic, so the people of Hue.



Of the 3 cities you mentioned, I've only been to Hue, I like it. I like all those historical monuments. Da Lat and Nha Trang are the other 2 cities that i like the most together with Danang.

My plan is to continue living in Danang and i like to visit other locations.

Let me know next time you come to VN and we can probably connect there.


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## dichoi

eazzy said:


> Glorifying traitors...



Nguyen Son was first General of Chinese PLA, is he the first traitor. 
(1908–21 October 1956) Sơn spent much of his early years in China, and was one of the few Vietnamese who had participated in the Long March with the Chinese Communist Party and who managed to survive


----------



## dichoi

madokafc said:


> come on, Shilka is not produced anymore how can you call it a new toy. You have S-300P and Pantsyr, that's your new toy



This is alternative mounting of antiaircraft complex Pantsir-S1 on a tracked GM 352 new toy for short to medium range ground based air defence system, S 300 P is new toy for long range defence systems.


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## dichoi

India warship visit Hai Phong.


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## ComradeNam

Carlosa said:


> Of the 3 cities you mentioned, I've only been to Hue, I like it. I like all those historical monuments. Da Lat and Nha Trang are the other 2 cities that i like the most together with Danang.
> 
> My plan is to continue living in Danang and i like to visit other locations.
> 
> Let me know next time you come to VN and we can probably connect there.


I was in Da Nang for two months. I plan to visit Da Nang next year. What are you doing in Da Nang, you work there or you just live there.


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## Carlosa

ComradeNam said:


> I was in Da Nang for two months. I plan to visit Da Nang next year. What are you doing in Da Nang, you work there or you just live there.



Oh very interesting. I mainly live in Danang, for my work I just have to travel occasionally, like now that I'm staying in china for 1 month. I look forward to meet you some time next year.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Of the 3 cities you mentioned, I've only been to Hue, I like it. I like all those historical monuments. Da Lat and Nha Trang are the other 2 cities that i like the most together with Danang.
> 
> My plan is to continue living in Danang and i like to visit other locations.
> 
> Let me know next time you come to VN and we can probably connect there.


Hue can become a wonderful city if it has an efficient management as Danang has. I don´t get it why the local authority doesn´t learn from Danang. It is a national shame how Hue lets the former imperial palace and emperor´s graves, e.i. our history unrenovated in ruine. I once attended a classical music show played in the ancient emperial court, I realised the girls of Hue are very gentle and melancholic 

yes, Dalat is a beauty as it reserves its colonial heritage. Most Vietnamese including me love the city. when visiting the Dalat you feel to be in a different world, feeling like you are in France.

I actually plan to visit Vietnam again, next year, visiting Saigon, Phu Quoc island and further to Hanoi. Not sure if with stop in Danang. I may see you there


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Hue can become a wonderful city if it has an efficient management as Danang has. I don´t get it why the local authority doesn´t learn from Danang. It is a national shame how Hue lets the former imperial palace and emperor´s graves, e.i. our history unrenovated in ruine. I once attended a classical music show played in the ancient emperial court, I realised the girls of Hue are very gentle and melancholic
> 
> yes, Dalat is a beauty as it reserves its colonial heritage. Most Vietnamese including me love the city. when visiting the Dalat you feel to be in a different world, feeling like you are in France.
> 
> I actually plan to visit Vietnam again, next year, visiting Saigon, Phu Quoc island and further to Hanoi. Not sure if with stop in Danang. I may see you there



Yes, you are right about Hue. I've also heard about Hue girls, very gentle and soft........ They have a very established reputation.

I love the pine forest in Da Lat, need to go there again, nice weather also.

Hope to see you in vn some time bro.

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## Viet

*Headquarter, 1st Cavalry Division*

Fort Hood commander, Lt. Gen. Mark Milley and the new Brigadier General Viet Luong during his promotion ceremony, Wednesday, Aug. 6, 2014. Luong receives one General star.

@gambit I think we all can be proud of him, can´t we?




































his family


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## ComradeNam

Carlosa said:


> Oh very interesting. I mainly live in Danang, for my work I just have to travel occasionally, like now that I'm staying in china for 1 month. I look forward to meet you some time next year.


What do you do for work? I want a job like you so I can get to travel here and there.


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## NarThoD

Viet said:


> *Headquarter, 1st Cavalry Division*
> 
> Fort Hood commander, Lt. Gen. Mark Milley and the new Brigadier General Viet Luong during his promotion ceremony, Wednesday, Aug. 6, 2014. Luong receives one General star.
> 
> @gambit I think we all can be proud of him, can´t we?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> his family


so he's member of US armed forces? what rank is he now? and what with that cowboy hat lol?

Nice job Vietnam


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## Viet

NarThoD said:


> so he's member of US armed forces? what rank is he now? and what with that cowboy hat lol?
> 
> Nice job Vietnam


he is one star brigadier general, deputy commander of the US 1st cavalry devision. why the cowboy hat? because he is a cowboy 











rank in the US armed forces:

brigadier general: 1 star
major general: 1 star
lt. general: 3 star
general: 4 star


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## ComradeNam

dichoi said:


> Nguyen Son was first General of Chinese PLA, is he the first traitor.
> (1908–21 October 1956) Sơn spent much of his early years in China, and was one of the few Vietnamese who had participated in the Long March with the Chinese Communist Party and who managed to survive


The Chinese boasting how much they helped us but they forget many Vietnamese fought along Communist China against KMT. The different we did not mention it neither asked them for gratitude. Contrary they kept boasting without their help could not be possible for us Viet achieve independent even though they did supply Vietnam weapon with conditions and their nation interests.


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## Viet

ComradeNam said:


> The Chinese boasting how much they helped us but they forget many Vietnamese fought along Communist China against KMT. The different we did not mention it neither asked them for gratitude. Contrary they kept boasting without their help could not be possible for us Viet achieve independent even though they did supply Vietnam weapon with conditions and their nation interests.


just curious, are you from the police?


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## Viet

Vietnam will arm all Fisheries Surveillance vessels with 14.5mm machine guns starting September 15. so they will carry similar cannon like from the Coast guard.











Vietnam to Arm Fishery Surveillance Ships After Standoff With China


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## Viet

2 US Senators visiting Hanoi: the hardliner John McCain and Sheldon Whitehouse.
according to the official statement, they will ask the US Congress to remove the ban as soon as possible when returning home.

John McCain supports stronger Vietnam-US ties | VOV Online Newspaper

@Carlosa
my friend, you are witnessing a historic moment. F-16 jets can come


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## Viet

*Mobile surface-to-air missile*

According to MIA Russia Today, Igor Novoselov (Assistant to the Chairman of the Defense Committee of the State Duma) revealed that Vietnam will have S-400 soon. Previous reports say Vietnam will buy 4-6 S-400 complexes.







Nga muốn bán S-400 cho Việt Nam trong tương lai gần

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## Carlosa

ComradeNam said:


> What do you do for work? I want a job like you so I can get to travel here and there.



I have a product line of sculptures, like Buddhist art (a lot of Buddha and Quan Am statues) and reproductions of ancient art such as Greek, Egyptian sculpture, etc. I get the product made for me for export to USA and Europe. I'm thinking about opening a workshop in Danang next year and make it there if everything goes well.



Viet said:


> 2 US Senators visiting Hanoi: the hardliner John McCain and Sheldon Whitehouse.
> according to the official statement, they will ask the US Congress to remove the ban as soon as possible when returning home.
> 
> John McCain supports stronger Vietnam-US ties | VOV Online Newspaper
> 
> @Carlosa
> my friend, you are witnessing a historic moment. F-16 jets can come



I can already smell the fuel from the F-16 engines.........

This is very important news because it will weaken the pro china faction in the vietnamese government. The ones that oppose the pro china faction can say "see, the US wants to help us?

Nga muốn bán S-400 cho Việt Nam trong tương lai gần[/quote]

Don't you feel like a kid in the candy store?

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## ComradeNam

Viet said:


> 2 US Senators visiting Hanoi: the hardliner John McCain and Sheldon Whitehouse.
> according to the official statement, they will ask the US Congress to remove the ban as soon as possible when returning home.
> 
> John McCain supports stronger Vietnam-US ties | VOV Online Newspaper
> 
> @Carlosa
> my friend, you are witnessing a historic moment. F-16 jets can come


Before John McCain, there were Bob Corker. 

These news will make Chinese sleepless, Chinese wil not be happy to see such many visits from U.S.


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## visom

*McCain confident of support for easing arms embargo on Vietnam*



By By Martin Petty 7 hours ago



.
View photo

U.S. Senator for Arizona John McCain leaves the American Center after a press briefing in Hanoi August …
By Martin Petty


HANOI (Reuters) - U.S. Senator John McCain said on Friday he was confident of bipartisan support in Washington for easing restrictions on arms sales to Vietnam as early as next month.

Together with Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, McCain met Vietnam's prime minister and the ruling Communist Party's chief on Friday. Both senators said Vietnam needed better maritime capabilities and its human rights record had improved enough to justify more military support from Washington.

The push to roll back the three-decade old arms embargo comes as Vietnam, like U.S. allies the Philippines and Japan, is locked in a dispute with an increasingly assertive China over sovereignty in the energy-rich South China Sea.

"The time has come for the United States to begin easing our lethal arms embargo on Vietnam," McCain told reporters in Hanoi. "We hope to begin the easing of that as early as September ... We're not guaranteeing it but we do believe we have very strong bipartisan support."

Washington wants to court Vietnam as a new ally in Southeast Asia to counter the growing influence of its communist neighbor, China. But Vietnam's record of arresting and jailing its critics and suppressing free speech has made it difficult to build a case for expanding military ties.

McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, is the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee. He and Whitehouse were among four senators to visit the country since early May, when China moved an oil rig into waters Hanoi claims are its exclusive economic zone. Senator Bob Corker met the Vietnamese leadership in Hanoi on Tuesday.

ROW OVER RIG

Beijing's move sparked a row that left much of the region on edge. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry plans to urge a freeze on acts that aggravate territorial rows during a regional meeting in Myanmar this weekend.

Moves to enhance military ties between Vietnam and the United States are likely to rile China, which is annoyed at what it sees as Washington's emboldening of other territorial claimants as part of its "pivot" back to Asia.

McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, said the stream of visits by senators to the country were not related to China's maritime actions.

"Members of Congress see this as progress made on human rights ... the reason why (easing the embargo) is step by step is because we still believe the human rights issue is step by step," he said. "If it were based simply on the situation with China then I think you would see an argument for total lifting."

McCain said he anticipated joint exercises, a strengthening of Vietnam's coast guard and naval capabilities, including search and rescue missions, plus Vietnamese officers being invited to attend U.S. military academies.

Whitehouse said any easing of the embargo would likely come in phases, but indicated it could progress fast.

"It's not necessarily also going to be an absolute lifting but probably in stages, which allows early stages to happen more rapidly."

(Editing by Larry King)

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I have a product line of sculptures, like Buddhist art (a lot of Buddha and Quan Am statues) and reproductions of ancient art such as Greek, Egyptian sculpture, etc. I get the product made for me for export to USA and Europe. I'm thinking about opening a workshop in Danang next year and make it there if everything goes well.
> 
> 
> 
> I can already smell the fuel from the F-16 engines.........
> 
> This is very important news because it will weaken the pro china faction in the vietnamese government. The ones that oppose the pro china faction can say "see, the US wants to help us?
> 
> Nga muốn bán S-400 cho Việt Nam trong tương lai gần



Don't you feel like a kid in the candy store?[/quote]
Yes, especially McCain met the head of VCP, a man of pro china faction. This encounter is probably the most important one in the series of US high profile visits to VN. Lifting arms embargo is not about selling or buying weapons but demonstrating how serious and honest America behaves toward it's former enemy.

As for s-400, it is interesting to note that the announcement comes shortly after Russia agrees to sell the toy to China. That shows the Russian don't want China to have an overwhelming advantage in aerial domain should it come to a confrontation with its comrade Vietnam. Conclusion, we can continue to rely on Russia that they will keep China in check despite the repeated shows of friendship. One should know Russia has its own version of pivot to Asia and fears Chinese rise as well.

For the leadership of VN, it is a huge challenge how to balance the relationship between the great powers America, China, Russia and Japan. Thing is not easier since Russia and the West are at war over Ukraine. It is difficult to assess the impact on the relationship with vladimir putin if we close a military alliance with America.

I think the next months will decide. Exciting times ahead.

All good luck for your business.

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## AViet

ComradeNam said:


> The Chinese boasting how much they helped us but they forget many Vietnamese fought along Communist China against KMT. The different we did not mention it neither asked them for gratitude. Contrary they kept boasting without their help could not be possible for us Viet achieve independent even though they did supply Vietnam weapon with conditions and their nation interests.


 
Not many, I think. Aside from General Nguyen Son, who was brought to China by Ho Chi Minh and fought along side with Red Army as a trainee, we may have some other Vietnamese who participated in Long March. But the case is different with China sending their advisors to help us in the war against French and the US.

Some North Korean pilots also died in Vietnam when they were trainee sent by Kim Jong Il to learn from Vietnam experience. But that does not mean North Korea "helped" us.

We should be clear.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Yes, especially McCain met the head of VCP, a man of pro china faction. This encounter is probably the most important one in the series of US high profile visits to VN. Lifting arms embargo is not about selling or buying weapons but demonstrating how serious and honest America behaves toward it's former enemy.
> 
> *As for s-400, it is interesting to note that the announcement comes shortly after Russia agrees to sell the toy to China. That shows the Russian don't want China to have an overwhelming advantage in aerial domain should it come to a confrontation with its comrade Vietnam.* Conclusion, we can continue to rely on Russia that they will keep China in check despite the repeated shows of friendship. One should know Russia has its own version of pivot to Asia and fears Chinese rise as well.
> 
> For the leadership of VN, it is a huge challenge how to balance the relationship between the great powers America, China, Russia and Japan. Thing is not easier since Russia and the West are at war over Ukraine. It is difficult to assess the impact on the relationship with vladimir putin if we close a military alliance with America.
> 
> I think the next months will decide. Exciting times ahead.
> 
> All good luck for your business.



Do you truly believe that we don't have anything superior to the S-400 in our inventory?

Whether Russia decides to sell you the S-400 or not will make no difference for us to squeeze you into submission in the modern battlefield.

Right now, we are in an intimidating mode, but we are not really desired to launch a war campaign against you, but don't ever try to test our patience.


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## ComradeNam

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that we don't have anything superior to the S-400 in our inventory?
> 
> *Whether Russia decides to sell you the S-400 or not will make no difference for us to squeeze you into submission in the modern battlefield.*
> 
> Right now, we are in an intimidating mode, but we are not really desired to launch a war campaign against you, but don't ever try to test our patience.



I want to see actions. I am sick of hearing Chinese 50cents' empty threat.


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## ChineseTiger1986

ComradeNam said:


> I want to see actions. I am sick of hearing Chinese 50cents' empty threat.



China's midcourse interception is technologically far ahead to that of the S-400.

This was even confirmed by the US, and only the gullible people believe we are still technologically depending on Russia.


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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's midcourse interception is technologically far ahead to that of the S-400.
> 
> This was even confirmed by the US, and only the gullible people believe we are still technologically depending on Russia.


Ranting again ?? The whole world just laugh a lot to China poorly trained forces when their huge got humilitated lost against VN small forces in the conflict near Paracel isl where China take control of it


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## Azeri440

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that we don't have anything superior to the S-400 in our inventory?




yes , you don't have anything superior to S-400 
neither does US


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## ChineseTiger1986

Azeri440 said:


> yes , you don't have anything superior to S-400
> neither does US



Google "China Midcourse Interception".


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## Jlaw

NiceGuy said:


> Ranting again ?? The whole world just laugh a lot to China poorly trained forces when their huge got humilitated lost against VN small forces in the conflict near Paracel isl where China take control of it


1988 Johnson Reef? I just saw Viet bodies with many bullet holes. 

RIP.


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## Azeri440

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Google "China Midcourse Interception".




those are 2 different things 
its like comparing Iron Dome to S-300 

but you can google "S-500"


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## ChineseTiger1986

Azeri440 said:


> those are 2 different things
> its like comparing Iron Dome to S-300
> 
> but you can google "S-500"



China's midcourse interception right now is unmatched, and it is much harder to intercept a Mach 25 ICBM than to intercept a Mach 2 aircraft.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Google "China Midcourse Interception".


Is your system ready or just in experimental phase?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Is your system ready or just in experimental phase?



Of course ready, but we will continue to upgrade/improve it, since the missile technology is also continuing to improve over the previous ones.


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## NiceGuy

Jlaw said:


> 1988 Johnson Reef? I just saw Viet bodies with many bullet holes.
> 
> RIP.


Just bcz we didnt surrender like ur coward PLA in 1988.

And people also saw Chinese bodies with many bullet holes in 1990 in Gaven reef killed by' mysterious' force too. In this incident ur troops didnt have a chance to surrender 

*who-killed-11-chinese-troops-in-gaven-reefs-in-1990*



> N*ovember 7, 1990, I found the Southern Command Nansha reefs lost radio contact.After the situation was reported to the South China Sea Fleet deployed immediately went to see the ship. Under the notification, the reef is a unit of Marines stationed in the preparation of 12 people, then should be 11 people (one reason temporarily off the reef). Inspectors found that the bodies of six soldiers on the reef, and another five people missing.* Missing persons including reef Chang allegiance, vice reef long and correspondents. In addition to the personnel on the reef, the reef warrior Xu Huiping Yong Department reef due to the treatment of burns and survived. Inspectors found multiple bullet holes in the room, indicating where the fighting occurred. Then they picked up and from the underwater reef a few rifles, these guns are all our military garrison personnel standard rifle.
> 
> This event was caused no small vibration in the army, immediately set up by the South China Sea Fleet of the senior leadership responsible for the investigation team, in-depth and comprehensive investigation, and make rehabilitation work. Findings are confidential at the time, unable to understand the outside.
> 
> This strange incident, even if insiders are also controversial. Is encountered enemy special forces raid, fighting or other emergency occurs, the truth has not yet been fully understood.This incident, I analyzed are the following possibilities:
> 
> *1, most likely by the army special forces is. Vietnamese troops in 1988, "3.14" Red Reef of Nansha sea battle at a disadvantage, must look for an opportunity to retaliate. But then I Nansha garrison high vigilance and patrolling troops, combat readiness, they are hard to find opportunities. I combined the naval prisoners of war captured in Zhanjiang Nansha trial, our government has not yet handed over to Vietnam. Since 1990, our military posture in Nansha is clear, I observe activity patterns reef and the ship's officers that they have already mastered their "revenge about" conditions ripe. According to common sense traces of science, this action does not leave any suspicious items, indicating that other means quite clever. Does not exclude the other is the master shooting, fighting, diving techniques, and even combat may wear body armor. If this action as a planned and premeditated military action, should be considered very successful.* But not arbitrary conclusion is that after the successful implementation of this action the enemy, meritorious officers must reward, JiaGuanJinJue, will follow along with the media reports, trumpeted the so-called "heroic deeds", but did not. Things over the past 20 years, information and networks so advanced, Vietnam had not been seen in any public media reported. They do a job well done is confidential?
> 
> In addition to the newspaper, the Philippines, Malaysia, accounting for part of my Nansha Islands and, in theory, its military personnel have started to attack me in the reef may be. But the two countries have maintained friendly relations with China over the they dare decorum skin, desperate to take such a big political and military risks? Media in both countries are more open, we were not given any clues, so many years, it is no reflection.
> 
> 
> Source: Who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven Reefs in 1990 ?
> Who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven Reefs in 1990 ?

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## pher

Viet said:


> Is your system ready or just in experimental phase?


are you scared? This kind of weapons is not for you. our rockets and blanket bombs are customer-made for vietnam.


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## United westand

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that we don't have anything superior to the S-400 in our inventory?
> 
> Whether Russia decides to sell you the S-400 or not will make no difference for us to squeeze you into submission in the modern battlefield.
> 
> Right now, we are in an intimidating mode, but we are not really desired to launch a war campaign against you, but don't ever try to test our patience.


 
So China buy S-400 just for pretending that China is still backward , while they have something better than S-400, means
better than current system Russia has ?


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## Viet

Sea Platforms

*Indian stealth frigate visits Vietnam in bid to improve interoperability*

*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
06 August 2014







_Main gun of a Shivalik-class frigate INS Sahyadri. Sister ship INS Shivalik is in Vietnam to enhance interoperability between the navies of India and Vietnam. Source: IHS/Ridzwan Rahmat_


The Indian Navy's Shivalik (Project 17)-class guided missile frigate INS _Shivalik_ has arrived in Hai Phong, Vietnam, in a bid to improve working relationship and operational procedures between navies of the two countries.

An official statement released by the Indian Navy on 5 August described the port call as a visit that not only strengthens bilateral ties, but one that enhances interoperability between the two nations' navies as well. The release also gave details on the various activities that have been planned for the ship and its personnel during the three-day stay.

"On departure, the ship will exercise with Vietnamese naval ships for improving interoperability in communication, search-and-rescue procedures, and other areas," said the Indian Navy. No details on which naval ships _Shivalik_ will be interacting with were given.

The vessel was earlier with two other Indian Navy vessels, the Rajput-class guided-missile destroyer INS _Ranvijay_ and Deepak-class replenishment tanker INS _Shakti_ , in the Indo-Russian bilateral naval exercise 'Indra 2014'. The vessels also participated in the trilateral naval exercise 'Malabar 2014', which involved the US Navy and Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force.

_Shivalik_ is a 4,600-tonne vessel belonging to a class of three warships that were commissioned between 2010 and 2012. The Shivalik-class incorporates reduced radar cross-section and IR features into its superstructure and touted as the Indian Navy's "multi-purpose command-and-control platform capable of operating in a network-centric multi-threat environment".

At 'RIMPAC 2014', Shivalik's sister ship INS _Sahyadri_ 's executive officer Lieutenant Commander Prasanna K Madhyastha told _IHS Jane's_ that the Indian Navy is keen on exposing its officers to NATO-compliant procedures and international codes on operating naval vessels. _Shivalik_ 's planned exercises with the People's Army of Vietnam Navy could be one of the Indian Navy's efforts to pursue this objective.

*COMMENT*
The Indian Navy's latest bid to enhance working relations with the Vietnamese could be a manifestation of India's 'necklace of diamonds' approach - a strategy in which it forges security and defence alliances with various Asian countries, especially ones with uneasy relationships with Beijing, to counter China's increasingly assertive stance in projecting its naval capabilities.

The latest port call follows several other signs of an improving relationship between the two countries. In December 2013, India announced that it will train 500 Vietnamese submariners to improve the PAVN's underwater warfare capabilities as part of the expanded strategic and defence ties between the two countries.

*Related article: *RIMPAC 2014: Indian Navy puts stealth frigate through paces at RIMPAC debut

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## Viet

pher said:


> are you scared? This kind of weapons is not for you. our rockets and blanket bombs are customer-made for vietnam.


50cent idiot


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Do you truly believe that we don't have anything superior to the S-400 in our inventory?
> 
> Whether Russia decides to sell you the S-400 or not will make no difference for us to squeeze you into submission in the modern battlefield.
> 
> Right now, we are in an intimidating mode, but we are not really desired to launch a war campaign against you, but don't ever try to test our patience.


wow ...squeezing us into submission?
we will see. when are you sending your missiles and jets to test the s-400 missile shield?


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## United westand

Some Russian weapons only delivered to Syria, Vietnam but not China ...
I'm sure the money is not the reason.


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## Viet

PM Nguyen meeting with John McCain. Nguyen is a man of pro US faction.
interesting: the hardliner McCain blames explicitly China´s claim in the SC Sea as the root cause of the current tension.

the arms embargo could end at next month: September.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> wow ...squeezing us into submission?
> we will see. when are you sending your missiles and jets to test the s-400 missile shield?



Why we would send our aircrafts in the first place?

An electronic warfare will blackout all your gadgets before the missile/aerial onslaught.


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## NiceGuy

pher said:


> Do you really delusion US is god who can sanction anyone at will? Have you ever heard that US dare to put China and sanction together in recent years? without China lending, US government will close within a month, then who will implement sanction, ignorant viets.
> 
> We don't care Mccain's opinions about us. but be careful stupid viets, Mccain hated vietcong gooks the most according to himself.


At least, US can sanction and divide China into 2 parts (Main land - TW) and China is too weak to resist


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## Sasquatch

Stick to topic, if you also want to catch up on daily life as I've seen in previous posts this is the wrong thread I suggest going to Members forum.

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## Oriental vs West

Vietnam should stop spending on your petty military and focus on economics and infrastructure. Aren't you have enough of war after the last century.


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## Viet

Oriental vs West said:


> Vietnam should stop spending on your petty military and focus on economics and infrastructure. Aren't you have enough of war after the last century.


are you vietnamese? I guess not according to your postings.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Why we would send our aircrafts in the first place?
> 
> An electronic warfare will blackout all your gadgets before the missile/aerial onslaught.


you seem to have a magic box.


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## Oriental vs West

Yes I am Vietnamese lived in America who despise the current Communist government ( toi la nguoi Viet nam va toi cam thu Cong San)


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## Viet

Oriental vs West said:


> Yes I am Vietnamese lived in America who despise the current Communist government ( toi la nguoi Viet nam va toi cam thu Cong San)


so you despise Vietnamese communist and love Chinese communist? how old are you?
I don´t like communism, either. but that does not mean I support our country´s enemy.


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## Oriental vs West

I never said that I love Chinese communism. However, I disgust how some Viet members in PDF keep trolling in other Chinese related threads and even antagonise Indonesian members.


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## dichoi

most of Viet members are not communist, are new generation nationalists.


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## Viet

Oriental vs West said:


> I never said that I love Chinese communism. However, I disgust how some Viet members in PDF keep trolling in other Chinese related threads and even antagonise Indonesian members.


so if chinese and indo members troll and insult us then it is okay to you? you don´t mind if they threaten with bomb vietnam?
how old are you again?


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## Oriental vs West

You know this a public forum where everyone can express their opinion. Chinese government will decide to bomb VN, not Chinese members on this forum. If they start to troll first, don't bother to reply but report them to moderator.
I'm tired of boring thread with tons of trolling without any actual debate

Why do you want to know my age?


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## Viet

Oriental vs West said:


> You know this a public forum where everyone can express their opinion. Chinese government will decide to bomb VN, not Chinese members on this forum. If they start to troll first, don't bother to reply but report them to moderator.
> I'm tired of boring thread with tons of trolling without any actual debate
> 
> Why do you want to know my age?


because I guess you are a little boy. you thank chinese and indo posts and insult our people. 
if you are tired, then comment with clever posts. but I ask you why do you feel the need to scold our country, assuming you are a real vietnamese.

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## Oriental vs West

dichoi said:


> most of Viet members are not communist, are new generation nationalists.



Then it's your responsibility to oust the corrupted VCP and install a new government that favour Viet people interest
Where do you live in Vietnam? You must be the rarest form of Vietnamese who happy with the way Vietnam is right now
Vietnam education system is total sh**t where students with college degree earn less than blue collar worker in America (waste of talents)
Have you ever walk down a street in Vietnam without fear getting rammed by motorbike or being robbed?
You will not get arrested for ramming other people as long as you have money to bribe the police??? 

Young generation Vietnamese do not even care about history as much as Viet members in PDF like how many times I've seen students ripped apart history books after finishing their exam. No one care about your cheap national "ego", they just want to make $$$$

Oversea Vietnamese always try to bail their relatives out of Vietnam for better opportunities and living conditions

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## Oriental vs West

Viet said:


> because I guess you are a little boy. you thank chinese and indo posts and insult our people.
> if you are tired, then comment with clever posts. but I ask you why do you feel the need to scold our country, assuming you are a real vietnamese.



You are lucky to be able to live in affluent Germany. Don't look back to Vietnam until it get rid of the Communist

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## MarveL

Would you guys mind....... just do post good news about viet's military other than barkin up each other for the whole pages?

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## Viet

Oriental vs West said:


> You are lucky to be able to live in affluent Germany. Don't look back to Vietnam until it get rid of the Communist


regardless of you like them or not, as the ruling vietnamese communists expelled the foreign invaders and united the country, they deserve to rule the country. that reflects our deep tradition: from the Trung sisters to the dynasties of Le, Trinh and Nguyen.

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## pher

Viet said:


> regardless of you like them or not, as the ruling vietnamese communists expelled the foreign invaders and united the country, they deserve to rule the country. that reflects our deep tradition: from the Trung sisters to the dynasties of Le, Trinh and Nguyen.


did you still miss your Trung sisters? hooligan tax evaders eventually get caught and executed?


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## dichoi

Oriental vs West said:


> Then it's your responsibility to oust the corrupted VCP and install a new government that favour Viet people interest
> Where do you live in Vietnam? You must be the rarest form of Vietnamese who happy with the way Vietnam is right now
> Vietnam education system is total sh**t where students with college degree earn less than blue collar worker in America (waste of talents)
> Have you ever walk down a street in Vietnam without fear getting rammed by motorbike or being robbed?
> You will not get arrested for ramming other people as long as you have money to bribe the police???
> 
> Young generation Vietnamese do not even care about history as much as Viet members in PDF like how many times I've seen students ripped apart history books after finishing their exam. No one care about your cheap national "ego", they just want to make $$$$
> 
> Oversea Vietnamese always try to bail their relatives out of Vietnam for better opportunities and living conditions




I m living in Vietnam now, but I have been to in US some time. I visited Orange County too. My younger brother of my opa and his descents are living there. I known well what do they think about Vietnam now.

I dont deny that Vietnam is not developed country and govt officials are corrupted. Problem is to be discuss, but not here. When you have nothing to respond on troll of Chinese, let to be silence. ( gà nhà chớ đá nhau).


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## Viet

pher said:


> did you still miss your Trung sisters? hooligan tax evaders eventually get caught and executed?


the trung sisters are national heroine. they were not what you call them. as far as I learn the local Han court excecuted trung elder sister´s husband because of nothing, or simply put: civil disobedience.


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## pher

Viet said:


> the trung sisters are national heroine. they were not what you call them. as far as I learn the local Han court excecuted trung elder sister´s husband because of nothing, or simply put: civil disobedience.


No, they rebelled because they refused to pay taxes, then ended up being chopped off head. You can this kind of people heroine, which showed your moral level.


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## dichoi

pher said:


> No, they rebelled because they refused to pay taxes, then ended up being chopped off head. You can this kind of people heroine, which showed your moral level.



you said what invaders had said, like Japanese did in China when executed Chinese who were not obeyed rules of Japan Imperial. 

low educated boy.

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## NiceGuy

pher said:


> did you still miss your Trung sisters? hooligan tax evaders eventually get caught and executed?


Respect our heroes and we will respect urs. Dont forget that many times Han-Chinese lost in war against Mongol-Manchul and had to fled to VN and begged for protection from our emperors



MarveL said:


>


What does the news say , bro ??


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## NiceGuy

Translate: Russia have some problem when exporting KH-35E to VN due to Ukraine stop the engine supply.

The CEO of the corporation Boris Obnosov reported it in an interview with ARMS-TASS on the “Innovation Day of the Defense Ministry”. “According to the program of import substitution we basically decided everything. All our products have Russian engines *except for one anti-ship missile Kh-35E in export version for third countries.* There we use the engine produced by Ukrainian company “Motor Sich”, Obnosov told, adding that Kh-35E is available, for example, in Vietnam, Algeria and India, and export obligations are “basically satisfied”.

I think VN need to keep a good relationship with Ukraine.



> Quốc phòng / Quốc phòng Việt Nam
> *Nga 'gặp khó' trong việc sản xuất tên lửa Kh-35E cho VN?*
> *(Quốc phòng Việt Nam) - Nga đang gặp khó trong việc sản xuất tên lửa Kh-35E cho xuất khẩu, sau khi bị Ukraina chấm dứt hợp tác kỹ thuật quân sự.*
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Việt Nam trang bị pháo/tên lửa Palma cho 2 tàu Gepard-3.9 mới
> 
> Báo Nga: Việt Nam có tên lửa phòng thủ bờ biển Bal-E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Tên lửa chống hạm cận âm Kh-35E._​


​


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Translate: Russia have some problem when exporting KH-35E to VN due to Ukraine stop the engine supply.
> 
> The CEO of the corporation Boris Obnosov reported it in an interview with ARMS-TASS on the “Innovation Day of the Defense Ministry”. “According to the program of import substitution we basically decided everything. All our products have Russian engines *except for one anti-ship missile Kh-35E in export version for third countries.* There we use the engine produced by Ukrainian company “Motor Sich”, Obnosov told, adding that Kh-35E is available, for example, in Vietnam, Algeria and India, and export obligations are “basically satisfied”.
> 
> I think VN need to keep a good relationship with Ukraine.
> 
> 
> ​


Yes, we need to maintain and improve the relationship to both russia and ukraine. Russia is surely the more important partner, but I believe it is wrong if we support Vladimir Putin action in eastern ukraine.


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## AViet

Oriental vs West said:


> Then it's your responsibility to oust the corrupted VCP and install a new government that favour Viet people interest
> Where do you live in Vietnam? You must be the rarest form of Vietnamese who happy with the way Vietnam is right now
> *Vietnam education system is total sh**t where students with college degree earn less than blue collar worker in America (waste of talents)*
> Have you ever walk down a street in Vietnam without fear getting rammed by motorbike or being robbed?
> You will not get arrested for ramming other people as long as you have money to bribe the police???


This shitty education system (Vietnam) produce better quality student than US, UK, France education, so please shut your mouth up. In every competition, whether for the gifted students (like IMO, IPhO) or for the mass (PISA test), Vietnamese students are equal or beat US student by far margin. (if not for the ethnic Chinese members in US team, US team will fall even lower)
A professional in US may earn less than a blue collar worker (ethnic Gulf Arabian) in Kuwait, so what is your point.?

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## dichoi

Jlaw said:


> *Vietnam in Debt Again*
> 
> Vietnam may change rules to accelerate bad-debt sales that have been stalled by a reluctance to accept losses, hampering the economy’s recovery.
> “Right now, everyone seems to be afraid of taking responsibility for creating losses to the state, so no one dares to make decisions to sell any debt at very low prices,” Nguyen Duc Kien, deputy head of the National Assembly’s Economic Committee, said in an interview in Danang yesterday. “That’s why the government is discussing changes in existing regulations related to the issue to have bad debt sold faster.”
> Vietnam has struggled to clean up the bad debt that hobbled lending and hurt businesses, with the asset-management company resolving less than 2 percent of about 51 trillion dong ($2.4 billion) of soured loans bought from banks since its formation in 2013. Economic growth will miss a 2014 target of 5.8 percent if officials don’t put their efforts into implementing planned measures, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said yesterday.
> Changes in regulation would allow the asset company, known as VAMC, to sell the debt it bought at a low price to lure buyers, according to Kien. The VAMC has resolved 996 billion dong of soured debt since it started, according to data from the company, which hasn’t said how much of that was sold.
> Bad loans amounted to 4.84 percent of total lending as of the end of June, Thoi Bao Kinh Te Vietnam newspaper reported July 21.
> 
> View attachment 43083
> 
> 
> Vietnam seeks rule changes to accelerate stalled bad debt sales | Business | Thanh Nien Daily



problem is we don't let Hua Qui control a economy finance sector like in the past in Vietnam war.


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## Viet

some events

meeting between Chinese FM and Vietnamese FM in Myanmar
from the official annoucement the atmosphere is as cold as the winter in siberia.






Polish Minister of National Defence Tomasz Siemoniak is on a three-day visit to Vietnam.
not much is known about the talk.





Meeting on the sidelines of the 47th ASEAN Ministerial Meeting (AMM) in Myanmar on August 9, Minh and Kerry.
all signs point to a close relationship with America for the times to come.

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## Carlosa

Another good article to read:

*The Great South China Sea Clash: China vs. Vietnam. The National Interest*

The Great South China Sea Clash: China vs. Vietnam | The National Interest

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another good article to read:
> 
> *The Great South China Sea Clash: China vs. Vietnam. The National Interest*
> 
> The Great South China Sea Clash: China vs. Vietnam | The National Interest


nothing new, just a short summary of some certain things we already know.

the most important aspect is VN leadership wrongly assumed CN would seek a peaceful solution with the old comrade in the south.
the deployment of the oil rig was a wakeup call.


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## Viet

Thing becomes more and more interesting as the dynamic begins to roll.

the U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey visits Hanoi today. The first to communist Vietnam by a American army chairman since 1971 when the Vietnam War was on. Let see what comes out from the talk.

US military chief visits Vietnam to boost ties

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## Viet

Before going into the closed-door meeting Dempsey told reporters that his visit was the “highlight” of his military career. - 
See more at: Top US general visits wartime foe Vietnam | World | The Malay Mail Online





meeting with defence minister Thanh


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Before going into the closed-door meeting Dempsey told reporters that his visit was the “highlight” of his military career. -
> See more at: Top US general visits wartime foe Vietnam | World | The Malay Mail Online



I'm telling you bro, I can smell the fuel coming out the engines of those new F-16's for Vietnam !

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## Viet

ironic history: General Dempsey is also expected to travel to Danang, the place where the first US Marines landed on the beach in 1965. The citiy was home of a key US military base during the war.

@Carlosa
pls send him many greetings when you see him.

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## pher

Viet said:


> some events
> 
> meeting between Chinese FM and Vietnamese FM in Myanmar
> from the official annoucement the atmosphere is as cold as the winter


cold? this is a good sign. actually there is no meaing for meeting at all.

what we should do is to let vietnam become cuba of asia.



Viet said:


> Thing becomes more and more interesting as the dynamic begins to roll.
> 
> the U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey visits Hanoi today. The first to communist Vietnam by a American army chairman since 1971 when the Vietnam War was on. Let see what comes out from the talk.
> 
> US military chief visits Vietnam to boost ties


this pic is hilarious!!!


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## Viet

pher said:


> what we should do is to let vietnam become cuba of asia.!


No, we will become Israel of Asia, all our enemies can begin to wet the pants.



Carlosa said:


> I'm telling you bro, I can smell the fuel coming out the engines of those new F-16's for Vietnam !


bro, I hope too. Dempsey reveals both President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel told him: “*The place for you right now is Vietnam.”*


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ironic history: General Dempsey is also expected to travel to Danang, the place where the first US Marines landed on the beach in 1965. The citiy was home of a key US military base during the war.
> 
> @Carlosa
> pls send him many greetings when you see him.



I'm afraid I'll miss him, I'm at the mekong delta right now and going to Phu Quoc next, but if I see him I'll tell him that I want no less than 72 F-16's C/D version, block 52 and a dozen P-3 C Orions as well. I'll mention to him about your request for some Aegis destroyers also.

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## NiceGuy

Carlosa said:


> I'm afraid I'll miss him, I'm at the mekong delta right now and going to Phu Quoc next, but if I see him I'll tell him that I want no less than 72 F-16's C/D version, block 52 and a dozen P-3 C Orions as well. I'll mention to him about your request for some Aegis destroyers also.


And pls tell him to recruit more VietNam soldiers and have more VN general in US army when he wants to contain China. VNese, wherever we r ,will always fight with China till the end


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I'm afraid I'll miss him, I'm at the mekong delta right now and going to Phu Quoc next, but if I see him I'll tell him that I want no less than 72 F-16's C/D version, block 52 and a dozen P-3 C Orions as well. I'll mention to him about your request for some Aegis destroyers also.


Are you on vacation?

Yeah...I like your way of thinking. Yes, pls tell him we need 6 aegis destroyers, for building the 3 fleets. Thank you.


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## NiceGuy

Khmer Krom Protesters Burn Vietnamese Flag
BY MECH DARA AND MATT BLOMBERG | AUGUST 13, 2014
Monks and nationalist protesters burned a Vietnamese flag in front of the Vietnamese Embassy on Tuesday as the embassy continued to ignore calls to apologize for comments made by a diplomat in July.

About 600 protesters gathered at the embassy once again to press for a retraction of spokesman *Tran Van Thong’s comments that the Kampuchea Krom provinces in present-day Southern Vietnam were under Vietnamese control long before colonial France officially ceded them in 1949.*





Monks and protesters burn a Vietnamese flag Tuesday in front of the Vietnamese Embassy in Phnom Penh during a protest against controversial claims by a Vietnamese diplomat over the history of Kampuchea Krom in this photo circulated on Facebook.

The demonstration proceeded peacefully until about 2:30 p.m., when the flag was brought forward and Seung Hai, a monk who has been a prominent figure at the two-day protest, took the lead.

As the flag was lit for a brief moment, two protesters—a monk and a layman—stepped forward and urged the protesters to remain true to their pledge of nonviolence. But Seung Hai continued to agitate.

“How long can we remain nonviolent?” he replied to calls to remain calm. “This is Vietnam’s problem.”

After a few minutes of debate, the flag was finally torched, then stomped and spat on by monks and laymen alike.

Thach Setha, executive director of the Khmer Kampuchea Krom Community and the protest’s figurehead, could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

But City Hall spokesman Long Dimanche said that Mr. Setha, during a meeting with the municipality Tuesday, disavowed any association with the flag-burners.

“He said the people in front of the embassy do not belong to his group,” Mr. Dimanche said of Mr. Setha, a member of the opposition CNRP’s standing committee.

*Mr. Dimanche said those who burned the flag would be punished.*

“It is a group of anarchists…we have not decided how to punish them yet but we will wait and see.”
Khmer Krom Protesters Burn Vietnamese Flag | The Cambodia Daily

VN has just given an order to punish those guys .


> *Vietnam condemns burning national flag in Cambodia ...*
> english.*vietnam*net.*vn*/.../*vietnam*-condemns-*burning*-nati...
> Dịch trang này
> 
> 13 giờ trước - Vietnam vehemently opposes Khmer Kampuchea Krom extremists for organizing illegal demonstrations and burning Vietnamese flag in Phnom ...

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Are you on vacation?
> 
> Yeah...I like your way of thinking. Yes, pls tell him we need 6 aegis destroyers, for building the 3 fleets. Thank you.



I'll also remind him that you want all that hardware as non refundable aid, Israeli style.
Yes, having a vacation, I definitely need a vacation after 1 month in China.



NiceGuy said:


> Khmer Krom Protesters Burn Vietnamese Flag
> BY MECH DARA AND MATT BLOMBERG | AUGUST 13, 2014
> Monks and nationalist protesters burned a Vietnamese flag in front of the Vietnamese Embassy on Tuesday as the embassy continued to ignore calls to apologize for comments made by a diplomat in July.
> 
> About 600 protesters gathered at the embassy once again to press for a retraction of spokesman *Tran Van Thong’s comments that the Kampuchea Krom provinces in present-day Southern Vietnam were under Vietnamese control long before colonial France officially ceded them in 1949.*
> 
> Monks and protesters burn a Vietnamese flag Tuesday in front of the Vietnamese Embassy in Phnom Penh during a protest against controversial claims by a Vietnamese diplomat over the history of Kampuchea Krom in this photo circulated on Facebook.
> 
> The demonstration proceeded peacefully until about 2:30 p.m., when the flag was brought forward and Seung Hai, a monk who has been a prominent figure at the two-day protest, took the lead.
> 
> As the flag was lit for a brief moment, two protesters—a monk and a layman—stepped forward and urged the protesters to remain true to their pledge of nonviolence. But Seung Hai continued to agitate.
> 
> “How long can we remain nonviolent?” he replied to calls to remain calm. “This is Vietnam’s problem.”
> 
> After a few minutes of debate, the flag was finally torched, then stomped and spat on by monks and laymen alike.
> 
> Thach Setha, executive director of the Khmer Kampuchea Krom Community and the protest’s figurehead, could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
> 
> But City Hall spokesman Long Dimanche said that Mr. Setha, during a meeting with the municipality Tuesday, disavowed any association with the flag-burners.
> 
> “He said the people in front of the embassy do not belong to his group,” Mr. Dimanche said of Mr. Setha, a member of the opposition CNRP’s standing committee.
> 
> *Mr. Dimanche said those who burned the flag would be punished.*
> 
> “It is a group of anarchists…we have not decided how to punish them yet but we will wait and see.”
> Khmer Krom Protesters Burn Vietnamese Flag | The Cambodia Daily
> 
> VN has just given an order to punish those guys .



Some people live and dream in the past !

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## Nike

those monks have I-phone

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## ANMDT

Carlosa said:


> 72 F-16's C/D version, block 52 and a dozen P-3 C Orions as well. I'll mention to him about your request for some Aegis destroyers also





NiceGuy said:


> Khmer Krom Protesters Burn Vietnamese Flag
> BY MECH DARA AND MATT BLOMBERG | AUGUST 13, 2014
> Monks and nationalist protesters burned a Vietnamese flag in front of the Vietnamese Embassy on Tuesday as the embassy continued to ignore calls to apologize for comments made by a diplomat in July.
> 
> About 600 protesters gathered at the embassy once again to press for a retraction of spokesman *Tran Van Thong’s comments that the Kampuchea Krom provinces in present-day Southern Vietnam were under Vietnamese control long before colonial France officially ceded them in 1949.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monks and protesters burn a Vietnamese flag Tuesday in front of the Vietnamese Embassy in Phnom Penh during a protest against controversial claims by a Vietnamese diplomat over the history of Kampuchea Krom in this photo circulated on Facebook.
> 
> The demonstration proceeded peacefully until about 2:30 p.m., when the flag was brought forward and Seung Hai, a monk who has been a prominent figure at the two-day protest, took the lead.
> 
> As the flag was lit for a brief moment, two protesters—a monk and a layman—stepped forward and urged the protesters to remain true to their pledge of nonviolence. But Seung Hai continued to agitate.
> 
> “How long can we remain nonviolent?” he replied to calls to remain calm. “This is Vietnam’s problem.”
> 
> After a few minutes of debate, the flag was finally torched, then stomped and spat on by monks and laymen alike.
> 
> Thach Setha, executive director of the Khmer Kampuchea Krom Community and the protest’s figurehead, could not be reached for comment Tuesday.
> 
> But City Hall spokesman Long Dimanche said that Mr. Setha, during a meeting with the municipality Tuesday, disavowed any association with the flag-burners.
> 
> “He said the people in front of the embassy do not belong to his group,” Mr. Dimanche said of Mr. Setha, a member of the opposition CNRP’s standing committee.
> 
> *Mr. Dimanche said those who burned the flag would be punished.*
> 
> “It is a group of anarchists…we have not decided how to punish them yet but we will wait and see.”
> Khmer Krom Protesters Burn Vietnamese Flag | The Cambodia Daily
> 
> VN has just given an order to punish those guys .



You should be already knew the story even better than me about khmer rouge , and recently they are convicted .
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/w...r-leaders-are-convicted-in-cambodia.html?_r=0

Also Vietnam's role in what happened in Cambodia is also clear as the fact .

Maybe those people outrage should be understood as these people;

2014 Vietnam anti-China protests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

one more thing i realized in the link i gave, HCM city mentioned as saigon , is the "saigon" still in use or its a misunderstood in wikipedia  , guys you should correct it


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## Viet

isoo said:


> one more thing i realized in the link i gave, HCM city mentioned as saigon , is the "*saigon*" still in use or its a misunderstood in wikipedia  , guys you should correct it


well, Saigon was renamed to HCM city after 1975 when Vietnam re-united.
nevertheless the name Saigon still remains and is the first quarter (downtown) of the large HCM city.


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## ANMDT

Viet said:


> well, Saigon was renamed to HCM city after 1975 when Vietnam re-united.
> nevertheless the name Saigon still remains and is the first quarter (downtown) of the large HCM city.


dont you guys feel irritated to see Saigon ,is being used insted of HCM ? Isnt there somethng ruled by government on this?
Usually vietnamese from south who fled to world in times of tet offensive keeps calling that city to be saigon .
thats why i asked you guys can correct the saigon to be HCM in the wikipedia page i have given .


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## Viet

meeting between General Dempsey and Prime Minister Nguyen
Dempsey says the US wants to be a good partner of Vietnam and will helps it meet challenges in defending marine sovereignty.

sounds very good to me.

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## Viet

isoo said:


> dont you guys feel irritated to see *Saigon *,is being used insted of HCM ? Isnt there somethng ruled by government on this?
> Usually vietnamese from south who fled to world in times of tet offensive keeps calling that city to be saigon .
> thats why i asked you guys can correct the saigon to be HCM in the wikipedia page i have given .


I always use the name Saigon. why should I get being irritated?
other call HCM, myself and many other use Saigon.


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## Viet

Gen. Petr Pavel, Chief of the Staff of Armed Forces of the Czech Republic visiting Hanoi
besides usual rhetoric, not much is known about the talk.


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## ANMDT

Viet said:


> I always use the name Saigon. why should I get being irritated?
> other call HCM, myself and many other use Saigon.


Its named to honour Ho chi ming, isnt it right ? Among the vietnamese i met , i often saw they call it HCM rather than saigon ,and seems they couldnt tolerate to hear Saigon .
Maybe it was my misinterpretation


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## Viet

isoo said:


> Its named to honour Ho chi ming, isnt it right ? Among the vietnamese i met , i often saw they call it HCM rather than saigon ,and seems they couldnt tolerate to hear Saigon .
> Maybe it was my misinterpretation


where are you in Vietnam? most Southern Vietnamese call Saigon.
Beware! if you say HCM to overseas Vietnamese especially in the United States, you may get a slap in the face.

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## ANMDT

Viet said:


> where are you in Vietnam? most Southern Vietnamese call Saigon.
> Beware! if you say HCM to overseas Vietnamese especially in the United States, you may get a slap in the face.


Currently not in Vietnam 
Anyway i already said about those VNmese on overseas fled during tet offensive, they dont like to hear HCM , or Even " Ho "  , And i didnt know there still called saigon , good to know this .


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## Viet

isoo said:


> Currently not in Vietnam
> Anyway i already said about those VNmese on overseas fled during tet offensive, they dont like to hear HCM , or Even " Ho "  , And i didnt know there still called saigon , good to know this .


No, actually there were many migration waves

- during French colonisation period many Vietnamese migrated to France (19 century).
- when South Vietnam collapsed (1975).
- when the economy collapsed following cambodia war (1978), chinese invasion (1979) and american sanction.
- when the government sent hundred of thousands to socialist brother states to work. many chosed to stay in those countries when the communist bloc collapsed (in the 1990s).

officially Saigon is the downtown (first quarter) of HCM city. Saigon is still commonly used in daily language. there is Saigon tourist, a state owned tourism company. the German airliner Lufthansa uses Saigon when referring to HCM city. just to name a few examples.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> No, actually there were many migration waves
> 
> - during French colonisation period many Vietnamese migrated to France (19 century).
> - when South Vietnam collapsed (1975).
> - when the economy collapsed following cambodia war (1978), chinese invasion (1979) and american sanction.
> - when the government sent hundred of thousands to socialist brother states to work. many chosed to stay in those countries when the communist bloc collapsed (in the 1990s).
> 
> officially Saigon is the downtown (first quarter) of HCM city. Saigon is still commonly used in daily language. there is Saigon tourist, a state owned tourism company. the German airliner Lufthansa uses Saigon when referring to HCM city. just to name a few examples.



I still call it saigon because it's easier to say it than Ho Chi Minh.

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## NiceGuy

Russia plant to set up air defense system service centers in Algeria, Vietnam, India and China.



> “We should help our friends and allies ensure their defense capability. We will set more serious tasks for our enterprises in order to fulfil the future export obligations to the partners, including deliveries abroad,” he said.
> 
> The S-400 Triumph long-and medium-range system is capable of guiding up to 72 missiles and engaging up to 36 targets simultaneously within the range of 400 kilometres.
> 
> Russian air defense systems manufacturer* Almaz-Antei is in talks over setting up service centers in Algeria, Vietnam, India and China*, a company official said at the Oboronexpo 2014 arms exhibition on Friday
> ITAR-TASS: Russia - Russia's latest air defense system S-400 licensed for export


Seems like Russia is going to sell S-400 soon.

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## NiceGuy

*America wants joint exercises with Vietnam*
*by blavender, &myca*

August 15, 2014





Pentagon occasion of General Do Ba Ty upper mid-June, an American army general *showed a map Ty minister mounted 7 star marking the place of large joint military exercises with the participation America's military, and said: "it would be great if you add a star here in Vietnam". *

During a visit to Army base Lewis-McChord joint, Washington, on 18.6, General Chief of Staff of the Vietnam People's Army, Deputy Defense Minister Do Ba Ty was Lt. Gen. Robert Brown, commander of I Corps , welcome, site of the American army said.

There, the minister heard Ty Brown presented the rebalancing strategy in the Pacific corps I.
"We want to move to South East Asia. This is where we're not able to because we are interfering in other parts of the world. Deploy more forces to Southeast Asia to coordinate work with great partners like you will be part of a strategy to rebalance the American military, "Mr. Brown told the Minister Ty.

Brown also introduced to the upper Minister Ty a map attached 7 star marking the place large joint exercises with the participation of American troops in 2014.
*That includes exercises at the Yakima Sports in the state of Washington, in Australia, Thailand, Japan, Korea, the Philippines and in the State of Hawaii. 
"It would be great if you add a star right here, in Vietnam," Mr. Brown said*.

American Lieutenant General added that the key point in the near future the two countries can be trained with each other, or that American troops from Vietnam to train or vice versa, or 2 troops in both countries to focus Vietnam and the United States.
"There is nothing that the state can not solve when combined together," Lt. Gen. Brown declared, referring to the threats like piracy, terrorism and natural disasters.

America may loosen ban on arms damage to Vietnam in early September, according to the AP.
America wants joint exercises with Vietnam - Bubblews

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## EastSea

US General Dempsey visited VPA.

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## Viet

an article from the Diplomat over the possibility of Vietnam to acquire nuclear weapons.

the main point is although Vietnam is a member of the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty, the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, and Treaty of Bangkok, all of those commitments are just pieces of paper and do not hinder Vietnam to acquire nuclear weapons. It is the United States that decides and has the final say.

That means the way for us to become a nuclear weapons state to get close with uncle Sam.

The Need to Tread Cautiously on a US-Vietnam Nuclear Deal | The Diplomat

handshake between the US and Vietnam defence chiefs.

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## dichoi

Viet said:


> an article from the Diplomat over the possibility of Vietnam to acquire nuclear weapons.
> 
> the main point is although Vietnam is a member of the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty, the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, and Treaty of Bangkok, all of those commitments are just pieces of paper and do not hinder Vietnam to acquire nuclear weapons. It is the United States that decides and has the final say.
> 
> That means the way for us to become a nuclear weapons state to get close with uncle Sam.
> 
> The Need to Tread Cautiously on a US-Vietnam Nuclear Deal | The Diplomat
> 
> handshake between the US and Vietnam defence chiefs.



good news.

we have to do it and don't let the enemy threaten us daily like recently.


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## Viet

dichoi said:


> good news.
> 
> we have to do it and don't let the enemy threaten us daily like recently.


Yes, the key to increase our national security is a close economic and military alliance with the United States.

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## Viet

Vietnam, Israel seeking to boost the defence ties.

It appears that Vietnamese army looks to form a network of defence alliance with the United States a the core and other NATO members including Israel. the recent high ranking visits from Poland and Czech defence and army chiefs (both NATO members) are a hint of this.

Israel - Vietnam Seeking Major Boost in Defense Ties | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com

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## Carlosa

Another good article to read:

*China's Crafty South China Sea Gambit. The National Interest*

China's Crafty South China Sea Gambit | The National Interest

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another good article to read:
> 
> *China's Crafty South China Sea Gambit. The National Interest*
> 
> China's Crafty South China Sea Gambit | The National Interest


well, that move of China is expected. Nobody should hold illusion.


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## Viet

*http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...andoff-with-china/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 *

*Vietnam Gives Brief Show of Openness in Standoff With China*
By AUSTIN RAMZY 
AUGUST 11, 2014 6:44 AMAugust 11, 2014 8:54 am 

Photo




_Vietnamese Coast Guard crew members guided their vessel outside Da Nang harbor on their way to a Chinese oil rig located in disputed waters near the Paracel Islands.Credit Gilles Sabrie for The New York Times_

The trip to the rig made clear the vastness of the 1,400,000-square-mile sea. From Da Nang, it took at least 10 hours to reach the cobalt blue waters south of the Paracels. The rings of Chinese protective ships meant that Vietnamese vessels could approach no closer than eight to 10 miles from the rig.

On our voyage out, the first Chinese vessels, a small fishing fleet, were spotted about 45 miles west of the rig. An hour later, the first Chinese Coast Guard vessel appeared.

About 20 miles from the rig, two vessels the Vietnamese Coast Guard said were Chinese Navy missile corvettes, one with the hull number 751, came into view to the north. Vietnam says there were about four to six Chinese military vessels among the more than 100 Chinese ships patrolling around the rig, along with Chinese Coast Guard and fishing boats.

Some briefly pursued the Vietnamese ship, then pulled off. Vietnamese sailors say the pursuits become more heated the closer one gets to the rig. On our trip, CSB-8003 could only get about 13 miles from the rig before a ship from the China Maritime Safety Administration blocked its path and forced a retreat.

Photo




_Hung Nguyen Van, captain of the CSB-8003, answering questions from Vietnamese and foreign journalists.Credit Gilles Sabrie for The New York Times
_
Late that evening, the reporters on board CSB-8003 heard the first rumors that China had begun to move its rig. It wasn’t until the following afternoon that a Vietnamese Coast Guard officer confirmed that the rig had been towed out of waters claimed by the Vietnamese. At that point, our colleagues in Beijing and elsewhere had already begun reporting on the announcement from the China National Petroleum Corporation that the rig was being relocated. The journalists on the ship were physically closest to the rig, yet distant from any timely information about it.

That wasn’t the only sign that the Vietnamese Coast Guard was still wary of the foreign reporters it had invited aboard.

When Gilles and I discovered that our satellite terminal wasn’t working, we asked coast guard personnel whether they could send some text and photos to our editors. That meant, however, that the officers on the ship could see our work before transmission.

On the third day, as we began our return to Da Nang, a minder from the Da Nang Department of Foreign Affairs told us there was a problem with a photo. The image showed a coast guard crew member scanning the sea through binoculars. But he was wearing sandals, which aren’t regulation footwear.

We argued that the objection was silly. The sandals were barely visible at the base of the photo.

Photo




_The photo to which the Da Nang Department of Foreign Affairs objected: A crew member scanning the horizon with less-than-regulation footwear.Credit Gilles Sabrie for The New York Times
_
The coast guard at first wouldn’t relent, and offered to present a crew member in regulation footwear. Gilles refused, saying he wouldn’t photograph a staged scene. If they wouldn’t send the original photo, then we would send no photo with the dispatch, he said. Eventually the coast guard relented and agreed to send the image.

Upon arrival in Da Nang, we learned that the photo and the story had only been sent shortly before we reached land. The debate over the photo, then, was pointless. Had we waited a short while longer, we could have sent it ourselves.

Photo




_At the regional headquarters of the coast guard in Da Nang, a poster shows the Chinese oil rig near the Paracel Islands.Credit Gilles Sabrie for The New York Times_

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## Viet

some images...copied from vn defence website










































Vietnamese officers in the Kremlin with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

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## Viet



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## Viet

Industry

*Vietnam, Czech Republic sign deal to support defence trade*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
18 August 2014


Vietnam and the Czech Republic have signed in Hanoi an agreement that cements the European country's position as one of the biggest suppliers of military equipment to the Vietnamese armed forces.

The agreement - signed on 15 August - coincided with further meetings in Hanoi between Vietnamese and US defence officials about an expansion of the two countries' strategic partnership: efforts that add momentum to any US decision to ease its long-standing ban on lethal defence items to the Southeast Asian country.

The Vietnam government said its preliminary agreement with the Czech Republic features a pledge to collaborate in military technologies, training, maintenance and repair, and wider defence industrial activity in unspecified fields.

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## Viet

Kilo #3 currently on sea trail and will be transferred soon this year.

Third Kilo submarine to arrive in Vietnam in November - News VietNamNet

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## Viet

Last update 09:02 | 18/08/2014
*Peace cannot be compromised or imposed: Deputy Defence Minister*

_Having weathered every war, Vietnam will never accept any compromise over peace, and a country that uses its military power to coercively pressure another will eventually pay a precipitous price, says Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh._

Senior Lieutenant General Vinh made the statement in an interview granted to VNExpress on the sidelines of an international conference on multilateral diplomacy held recently in Hanoi. Following are excerpts from the interview.






*Gen. Vinh, How does multilateral diplomacy impact on national defence and security?*

This is the first time we have organised such a conference reviewing Vietnam’s engagement in regional and global cooperation structure. The participation of globally renowned politicians and scholars is testimony to the openness in Vietnam’s foreign policy. In other words, our policymaking is transparent.

On national defence, this multilateral forum is preventing conflicts and wars.

We have attended numerous international forums, let alone this forum in Hanoi. The fact is that our voice has been recognised internationally because Vietnam not only pays attention to its interest, but links them to the interests of other countries in the region and the rest of the world.

The recent tension in the East Sea is a case in point. Vietnam’s stance [of settling of territorial disputes through peaceful means and in accordance with international law] has received great support from the international community.

*You have said ‘The world is totally in chaos if a self-localized nation self-imposes its will on common problems of the world’. In fact, chaos is erupting here and there. What is your opinion of this?*

In a flat world, the interests of each country depend on the common development of the whole community. If a country imposes itself on other countries for its own best interests, it will eventually have to pay the price and sooner or later suffer defeat.

It is said that a big state wins over a smaller state, yet I think this development rule will not serve the big state well if the goal is to achieve sustainable peace. A country can use its power to coercively seize interests of another country, but it will forever face irresolvable serious consequences. Peace, stability and development cannot be achieved through coercion or imposition.

Looking back on Vietnam’s history, we won all the past wars waged by foreign aggression. We won not because we were more powerful than our enemies, but the world and our foes realised that they were unjust wars.

*In multilateral relations, countries’ interests are different and even contradictory. What challenges is Vietnam confronted with in defending its sovereignty, especially at various multilateral forums where Vietnam has smaller voice?*

In international relations, it is a normal occurrence that a contradiction may arise from countries in defending their interests. However, countries have many things in common that can be used to settle differences. Multilateral relations are to find out the common interests for cooperation and settle differences, playing by the rules.

At the Hanoi conference on multilateral diplomacy, the Prime Minister emphasized that Vietnam is shifting its position from ‘positive’ to ‘active’, contributing to building the rules. This is a common trend globally. General institutions will help countries avoid conflict and escalation.

In the face of challenges, we make public our proper behaviour, by raising the issue of not only our national sovereignty, but also the interests of other countries, notably security in the region and the world.

For example, if the East Sea is unilaterally controlled by a country, regional peace, stability, security, safety and freedom of navigation and aviation is threatened, and this is the matter of not only Vietnam but the international community.

The biggest national defence lesson we have learnt is that a war ends in success only when it is a just or righteous war. The world should be fully aware of this lesson, so as to prevent a country taking any unilateral actions or using force against Vietnam.

Vietnam’s defence policy heightens peace and self-defence, but Vietnam will never accept peace through compromise and imposition.

*Is a military cooperation agreement between countries of similar concern valuable to Vietnam given the current context?*

In foreign relations in general and multilateral relations in particular, Vietnam does not target any country in defending its sovereignty. We need a consensus of all nations sharing common interests and affected if Vietnam's sovereignty is threatened.

Engaging in an alliance with a group of countries means we will restrict our interests in a local framework. The greatest strength of Vietnamese nation lies in the great national unity bloc, independence, self-reliance, and expanded relations under the motto of multilateralization and diversification of international relations.

*Development must be based on trust, so how will Vietnam-China relations be improved following the recent setback?*

Although there are a number of differences that need to be resolved in bilateral relations, Vietnam and China have huge interests to reconcile these differences. It is time to re-evaluate areas of bilateral relations.

China proposed putting aside disputes and developing together. We can accept this proposal only when both sides figure out where the dispute comes from, in accordance with international law, not carrying out unilateral actions, especially not using force or disguised force.

Strategic trust is developed from strategic interests. The more strategic interests, the more strategic trust grows. It is no easy task, but I believe both Vietnam and China are able to harmonise their interests for common development.

_VNE/VOV/VNN_


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## Viet

the Marines with new assault rifle: Tar-21





somewhere in the South China Sea





Special commando


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## Viet

grandfather old tanks T-55s reportedly receiving new fire control system

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## poopnose456

Will Vietnam upgrade all of the t-55/54 and 62's?

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## BoQ77

Hi ! @poopnose456

Vietnam planned to upgrade T54/T55 long time ago.
Yes all would be upgraded by most suitable solution as they struggled to find which is the best.

Btw, it seems that T90 would be assembled in Vietnam for Southeast Asia market including Vietnam.
---------
P.S: do you belong to Vietnam community in South Cali ? I mentioned you used their representative flag.


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## xesy

Viet said:


> grandfather old tanks T-55s reportedly receiving new fire control system


The upgraded version with new turret and ERA looks cool. Wonder where our generals hide them. Some people even mistakes them for T90. Still we are using T34 for training and drill. That IS the great grandfather.


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## poopnose456

No , i'm not from California, Texas, or New York. I'm from Michigan. Just a normal Vietnamese American citizen. My Parent's moved to US back in 1990 because of... the Communist Government. But besides that I want to support my former homeland in the Vietnam-China tensions over Territorial Sovereignty. Btw Do you guys think that it's a disadvantage for Vietnam to mainly get it's Military Technologies and weapons from Russia? I mean China also has them too, but in massively greater numbers. Like for example Su30.


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## xesy

poopnose456 said:


> No , i'm not from California, Texas, or New York. I'm from Michigan. Just a normal Vietnamese American citizen. My Parent's moved to US back in 1990 because of... the Communist Government. But besides that I want to support my former homeland in the Vietnam-China tensions over Territorial Sovereignty. Btw Do you guys think that it's a disadvantage for Vietnam to mainly get it's Military Technologies and weapons from Russia? I mean China also has them too, but in massively greater numbers. Like for example Su30.


Russia played a bad card with ASEAN regarding the China-ASEAN tension. Now even the most hardcore pro-Russian weapons VN has to sought out other sources of weapons. Recently, VN rejected an AK 102 production line from Russia to purchase Israeli Gali production line. Before, VN marines are equipped with the most advance AK we had around, AK 74-102-103-104 when regular infantry was still using AKM. Now they use Tarvo-21 and more and more regular battalions are equipped with M15, a modified version of M16 VN salvaged from US and South VN army after 1975. VN also plans to replace the MIGs squadron with EU fighter like the Typhoon or Euro Fighter. Of course about the submarine there are only 3 major players, Russia, China and US. China and US won't sell submarine to VN, for different reasons, so Russia is the only answer.

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## BoQ77

poopnose : China has no choice but buy greater numbers as their area so large. without refuelling ability on air, 1000 of Chinese Su 30 still cannot dominate Spratly islands while Vietnam can do that with limited quantity.

And yes, you are true to say Vietnam depend much on Russia weapon, while China could get the same.
That's why Vietnam need US support to lift arm ban next month.


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## L&#7841;c Vi&#7879;t

I would like to see Vietnam inventing its own new-technology weapons in the future^^.


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## poopnose456

Do You Guys Think Vietnam did the right choice to go with Galil Ace 32 and 31? Maybe New Russian Ak was a better choice?



In the neat future Will the Ace Galil become the main service rifle in the VPA?


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## L&#7841;c Vi&#7879;t

Vietnam should produce Ak 47s skinned dragon


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## William Hung

xesy said:


> Of course about the submarine there are only 3 major players, Russia, China and US. China and US won't sell submarine to VN, for different reasons, so Russia is the only answer.



China is barely a player in the sub export market. It's main priority is domestic demand. 

US don't make diesel sub, only nuke sub that you'll never be able to afford. 

The main players are France and Germany with their Scorpene and 214 which is far more superior and modern than your Russian Kilo.


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## Viet

poopnose456 said:


> No , i'm not from California, Texas, or New York. I'm from Michigan. Just a normal Vietnamese American citizen. My Parent's moved to US back in 1990 because of... the Communist Government. But besides that I want to support my former homeland in the Vietnam-China tensions over Territorial Sovereignty. Btw Do you guys think that it's a disadvantage for Vietnam to mainly get it's Military Technologies and weapons from Russia? I mean China also has them too, but in massively greater numbers. Like for example Su30.


he he he welcome to the forum. I am southern vietnamese, too 

Vietnam buys mainly russian products because of two main reasons:

- the army get used with their weapons systems since decades. sourcing products from too different countries would made things complicated in terms of inter-operationalities, replacement parts and training costs. Also, russian arms are price competitive.
- american arms embargo. nearly all western countries and US allies aren´t allowed to sell arms to countries under US sanction. thing will become exciting if the US ends the ban. the step is expected in September.


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## xesy

poopnose456 said:


> Do You Guys Think Vietnam did the right choice to go with Galil Ace 32 and 31? Maybe New Russian Ak was a better choice?
> View attachment 44200
> In the neat future Will the Ace Galil become the main service rifle in the VPA?


The Russian asked too much for their AK production line (around $450k), compare to $380 Gali. Quality is around the same, some experts even prefer Gali over AK. Also the best AK around is made by Easten Europe countries, not Russia. 


Black Flag said:


> China is barely a player in the sub export market. It's main priority is domestic demand.
> 
> US don't make diesel sub, only nuke sub that you'll never be able to afford.
> 
> The main players are France and Germany with their Scorpene and 214 which is far more superior and modern than your Russian Kilo.


I mean that only those 3 countries have capable submarine fleets. Aren't nuke sub are strategic weapons that no one in their right mind will sell? Ukraine sold China an aircraft carrier because it was too costly for them to maintain, and they didn't have any potential conflict with China.

EU weapons are good, maybe even superior than US. But they are costly. Look at Leopard 2 or Challanger tanks. They are indestructable, but cost as much as 2-3 times a US tank, 4-5 times a Russian tank. VN prefer Russian weapon for lower price, lower maintainance cost and higher durability.


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## NiceGuy

poopnose456 said:


> Do You Guys Think Vietnam did the right choice to go with Galil Ace 32 and 31? Maybe New Russian Ak was a better choice?
> View attachment 44200
> In the neat future Will the Ace Galil become the main service rifle in the VPA?


Not so many information abt Galil using in VN army, seem like our soldiers still prefer AK series.

Galil may be equipped for our peace keeping team doing mission for UN only.


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## xesy

NiceGuy said:


> Not so many information abt Galil using in VN army, seem like our soldiers still prefer AK series.
> 
> Galil may be equipped for our peace keeping team doing mission for UN only.


Troops are asking when will they switch to using AK74. Seriously the AKM is heavy as hell, and pack a punch of kick-back too. Gali might be used by special force, like "Dac Cong" or by the most elite troops in PVA.


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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> Russia played a bad card with ASEAN regarding the China-ASEAN tension. Now even the most hardcore pro-Russian weapons VN has to sought out other sources of weapons. Recently, VN rejected an AK 102 production line from Russia to purchase Israeli Gali production line. Before, VN marines are equipped with the most advance AK we had around, AK 74-102-103-104 when regular infantry was still using AKM. Now they use Tarvo-21 and more and more regular battalions are equipped with M15, a modified version of M16 VN salvaged from US and South VN army after 1975. VN also plans to replace the MIGs squadron with EU fighter like the Typhoon or Euro Fighter. Of course about the submarine there are only 3 major players, Russia, China and US. China and US won't sell submarine to VN, for different reasons, so Russia is the only answer.



What's your source regarding VN planning to replace the migs with the typhoon jet? I never heard anything in that direction and frankly, I very much doubt it, the typhoon is very expensive and still not as good as the SU-35 which is what I understand that VN is planning to get.

Regarding diesel subs, you forget South Korea. Indonesia is buying subs from them and also producing them under license. Those subs are a modified, enlarge version of the German type 209. The south koreans are also working on other, bigger designs.


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## William Hung

xesy said:


> I mean that only those 3 countries have capable submarine fleets. Aren't nuke sub are strategic weapons that no one in their right mind will sell? Ukraine sold China an aircraft carrier because it was too costly for them to maintain, and they didn't have any potential conflict with China.
> 
> EU weapons are good, maybe even superior than US. But they are costly. Look at Leopard 2 or Challanger tanks. They are indestructable, but cost as much as 2-3 times a US tank, 4-5 times a Russian tank. VN prefer Russian weapon for lower price, lower maintainance cost and higher durability.



Well Russia leased a nuke sub to India, but not many country has the money and resource to operate them anyway. 

Nah for diesel sub, the French and German ones are better than the Kilo. The scorpene and type214 are only a little more expensive but has better specs with AIP. It has longer submerged range, longer endurance, yet more compact, more automation requiring less crew. And I suspect more quiet. 

The Kilo is outdated. Only the Russian Lada/Amur can be compared to the Scorpene and type 214.


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## Carlosa

poopnose456 said:


> No , i'm not from California, Texas, or New York. I'm from Michigan. Just a normal Vietnamese American citizen. My Parent's moved to US back in 1990 because of... the Communist Government. But besides that I want to support my former homeland in the Vietnam-China tensions over Territorial Sovereignty. Btw Do you guys think that it's a disadvantage for Vietnam to mainly get it's Military Technologies and weapons from Russia? I mean China also has them too, but in massively greater numbers. Like for example Su30.



Hola amigo, welcome to the forum.

Russia is a good choice for many weapon systems since they have the right stuff at the right price, but not for everything. VN is diversifying its sources and that's the right way to go. Israel is becoming an important supplier and also western Europe. Need to buy from whoever has the right stuff. USA will lift the embargo soon and they will become a new supplier for VN also. VN is going in the right direction. Its never good to depend too much from one source. Some of the equipment that VN buys from Russia might have some issues now because of parts made in Ukraine that now are difficult for Russia to get.


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## Viet

Professor Carl Thayer (Australia), a very good informed person on Vietnam affairs reveals in one of his blog responses (I forgot the site) that John McCain was given a "arms wish list" during his recent visit to Vietnam.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Well Russia leased a nuke sub to India, but not many country has the money and resource to operate them anyway.
> 
> Nah for diesel sub, the French and German ones are better than the Kilo. The scorpene and type214 are only a little more expensive but has better specs with AIP. It has longer submerged range, longer endurance, yet more compact, more automation requiring less crew. And I suspect more quiet.
> 
> The Kilo is outdated. Only the Russian Lada/Amur can be compared to the Scorpene and type 214.



I suggest you research about all the problems that Russia have / had developing the Lada / Amur. Why do you think they canceled the class after building just one?

Care to explain in detail what makes the French and German subs better than the Kilo? I'm not aware that they are more silent than the Kilo and that is the primary feature in a submarine and by the way, they are not a little bit more expensive than the kilo, they are a lot more expensive than a Kilo and that makes a big difference.

By the way, the Kilo that VN is getting is not the original design, its an upgraded Kilo, that's why is called the i*mproved* Kilo.

Are you aware of all the problems that Greece and Turkey had with the German type 214?

Are you aware that when a sub runs on AIP it can only navigate at a speed of 2-4 knots which would be an issue during combat? AIP is not the big thing that is often made up to be.



Viet said:


> Professor Carl Thayer (Australia), a very good informed person on Vietnam affairs reveals in one of his blog responses (I forgot the site) that John McCain was given a "arms wish list" during his recent visit to Vietnam.



Ha ha, I also read that, I wish I could get my hands on that list.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Well Russia leased a nuke sub to India, but not many country has the money and resource to operate them anyway.
> 
> Nah for diesel sub, the French and German ones are better than the Kilo. The scorpene and type214 are only a little more expensive but has better specs with AIP. It has longer submerged range, longer endurance, yet more compact, more automation requiring less crew. And I suspect more quiet.
> 
> The Kilo is outdated. Only the Russian Lada/Amur can be compared to the Scorpene and type 214.


German made subs are very expensive. for example, the Dolphin class (diesel-electric) costs $1 billion a piece. Israel Navy operates Dolphin 2 version that can fire long range nuclear missiles, believed to have a range of 1,500 km.

conventional French subs are cheaper than german ones, but they still cost more than Kilos. by the way I believe the Kilos are better than the Scorpene.

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## xesy

Carlosa said:


> What's your source regarding VN planning to replace the migs with the typhoon jet? I never heard anything in that direction and frankly, I very much doubt it, the typhoon is very expensive and still not as good as the SU-35 which is what I understand that VN is planning to get.
> 
> Regarding diesel subs, you forget South Korea. Indonesia is buying subs from them and also producing them under license. Those subs are a modified, enlarge version of the German type 209. The south koreans are also working on other, bigger designs.


Just things I grab from VN news and forum. The MIGs which will be replaced are the old MIG 17 and 21, which are ways out of date. VN searches for a new short range interceptor, and the EU fighters looks promising compare to MIG 27. Of course for fighter/bomber, VN sticks to Russian Su-series.


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## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> Well Russia leased a nuke sub to India, but not many country has the money and resource to operate them anyway.
> 
> Nah for diesel sub, the French and German ones are better than the Kilo. The scorpene and type214 are only a little more expensive but has better specs with AIP. It has longer submerged range, longer endurance, yet more compact, more automation requiring less crew. And I suspect more quiet.
> 
> The Kilo is outdated. Only the Russian Lada/Amur can be compared to the Scorpene and type 214.


VN Kilos have ground-attack missile (Russia design this version for VN only) , thats the reason why we buy it. Do French and German ones have ground-attack missile for exporting version ??


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Care to explain in detail what makes the French and German subs better than the Kilo? I'm not aware that they are more silent than the Kilo and that is the primary feature in a submarine and by the way, they are not a little bit more expensive than the kilo, they are a lot more expensive than a Kilo and that makes a big difference.
> 
> By the way, the Kilo that VN is getting is not the original design, its an upgraded Kilo, that's why is called the i*mproved* Kilo.
> 
> Are you aware of all the problems that Greece and Turkey had with the German type 214?
> 
> Are you aware that when a sub runs on AIP it can only navigate at a speed of 2-4 knots which would be an issue during combat? AIP is not the big thing that is often made up to be.



I already gave the list in which the Scorp/214 has better specs than the kilo. Longer submerged range, diving depth, endurance, etc. All in a more compact Hull requiring less crew. These specs list are all readily available on the net. You cannot deny them. 

I said I "suspect" they are more silent than the kilo. Yes both you and I will not know for sure since neither of us know their acoustic signature. I based my speculation on report articles that I've read such as one on the hull structure analysis between type214 and kilo. I can send it to you when I dig it up. Some of these are third party analysis, but probably not entirely rubbish. Lastly, the fact that they can run on AIP would likely mean that they are more silent (in AIP mode) than the Kilo. 

Which brings me to the last point. Submarine warfare is not a aerial dogfight between two propeller plane where speed and manoeuvrability is king. It is a much much more complex warfare with different strategies in which one strategy might be just sitting in ambush (I based this on fiction like Tom Clancy and non-fiction article and accounts like Larry Bond ) so saying AIP is not a big thing just because it only propel between 2-4knot is naive. The fact that running on AIP is silent and allows the sub to stay submerged longer cannot be denied. If it gives not advantage in sub warfare then ask all the navies why they bother buying it.


----------



## Nike

xesy said:


> Just things I grab from VN news and forum. The MIGs which will be replaced are the old MIG 17 and 21, which are ways out of date. VN searches for a new short range interceptor, and the EU fighters looks promising compare to MIG 27. Of course for fighter/bomber, VN sticks to Russian Su-series.



err why you not stick with Russian made fighter?


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## William Hung

NiceGuy said:


> VN Kilos have ground-attack missile (Russia design this version for VN only) , thats the reason why we buy it. Do French and German ones have ground-attack missile for exporting version ??



Yes, the French scorpene has option to install VLS for land attack missile.


----------



## Carlosa

xesy said:


> Just things I grab from VN news and forum. The MIGs which will be replaced are the old MIG 17 and 21, which are ways out of date. VN searches for a new short range interceptor, and the EU fighters looks promising compare to MIG 27. Of course for fighter/bomber, VN sticks to Russian Su-series.



The possibility of the typhoon replacing Mig 21's is almost next to impossible, not only because of cost which is already enough of a reason, but also because they are totally different types of planes. VN needs to replace the Mig 21 with a single engine, light plane, the typhoon is a dual engine, heavier plane and at a price of way more than $100 million a piece, plus the extra logistical expenses of having to use western missiles and equipment for it, it just makes no sense. 

If there is a European plane that can replace the Mig 21 that would be the Grippen which is also a single engine, light jet even that it cost about the same as a SU-30, but at least is cheap to operate and maintain.

Other choices would be the F-16 or the Tejas MK2 from India. If those options can't be made to workout, then it has to be replaced with heavier, dual engines jets (which are a lot more expensive to operate) like the SU-30 / 35 or the Mig 35 which I think it would be a good alternative.

There is no Mig 17 in operation in VN by the way, and VN never operated the Mig 27.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> German made subs are very expensive. for example, the Dolphin class (diesel-electric) costs $1 billion a piece. Israel Navy operates Dolphin 2 version that can fire long range nuclear missiles, believed to have a range of 1,500 km.
> 
> conventional French subs are cheaper than german ones, but they still cost more than Kilos. by the way I believe the Kilos are better than the Scorpene.



Totally correct, the cheapest European subs would cost at least $500 million compared to the $300 million of a Kilo and the Kilo is actually more silent than both of those. 

VN took the best choice available for diesel subs. And by the way, any of those designs, including the Kilo can have the option of a VLS if the customer wants, they would just stretch the sub to mount some VLS tubes, no big deal. The Kilos can fire the Club missiles from the torpedo tubes which is already good enough.

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## William Hung

@Carlosa


You can search for academic journal articles on engineering, military tech, warfare history.

The articles I've mentioned were searched from my university online database. When I find the ones I talk about, you probably can find it here too, but not always. You can start searching for submarine articles now.

Copy the link now, cause I will have to delete b


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> @Carlosa
> Copy this link..
> 
> 
> You can search for academic journal articles on engineering, military tech, warfare history.
> 
> The articles I've mentioned were searched from my university online database. When I find the ones I talk about, you probably can find it here too, but not always. You can start searching for submarine articles now.
> 
> Copy the link now, cause I will have to delete because it has p!rated books and article.



Ok, thank you for the link. I'll research into it.

By the way, what makes the Kilos very silent are those rubber modules that they are covered with.
They are very good at absorbing noise and sonar waves.

If we are going to talk about high tech for subs, lithion ion batteries and actually a fuel cell would be the thing to go for, particularly the fuel cell, that is better than AIP. Japan, South Korea and Germany are working on fuel cells for subs.

I would not doubt that German and French subs have better specs in many areas and other benefits such as an smaller crews due to better automation, etc, but have to consider how much of a difference that actually makes; from my perspective, the big thing for a sub is to be as silent and undetectable as possible, and the Kilos have been proven to be very good at that, and they are the cheapest at the same time, so that's a mighty combination.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Ok, thank you for the link. I'll research into it.
> 
> By the way, what makes the Kilos very silent are those rubber modules that they are covered with.
> They are very good at absorbing noise and sonar waves.
> 
> If we are going to talk about high tech for subs, lithion ion batteries and actually a fuel cell would be the thing to go for, particularly the fuel cell, that is better than AIP.
> 
> I would not doubt that German and French subs have better specs in many areas and other benefits such as an smaller crews due to better automation, etc, but have to consider how much of a difference that actually makes; from my perspective, the big thing for a sub is to be as silent and undetectable as possible, and the Kilos have been proven to be very good at that, and they are the cheapest at the same time, so that's a mighty combination.



B@stard don't quote my link!! I can get in trouble for linking p! rate materials. Just edit it out. Btw, the articles and books from there are academic stuff and not amateur internet analysts. You might even find articles on the batteries too. 

I don't agree that kilo is more silent. we both can't know for sure but most analysis and articles I've read say it's the 214. There are other factors too such as propulsion system. It's not far fetched to think 214 is better since the they are newer generation and the Germans are not new to this sub game. 

I don't have time to debate now gotta get back to working on my real stuff. I'll get back when I have time to find the exact articles and books.


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## Europa

everyone knows that link, i already downloaded almost a tb of pdf books from it


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> B@stard don't quote my link!! I can get in trouble for linking p! rate materials. Just edit it out. Btw, the articles and books from there are academic stuff and not amateur internet analysts. You might even find articles on the batteries too.
> 
> I don't agree that kilo is more silent. we both can't know for sure but most analysis and articles I've read say it's the 214. There are other factors too such as propulsion system. It's not far fetched to think 214 is better since the they are newer generation and the Germans are not new to this sub game.
> 
> I don't have time to debate now gotta get back to working on my real stuff. I'll get back when I have time to find the exact articles and books.


no panic, the link you provided is not working: DNS lookup error! there is no IP address record for the server name.


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## Europa

Viet said:


> no panic, the link you provided is not working: DNS lookup error! there is no IP address record for the server name.



mine is working, a slight difference from this one though, but i won't tell the secret method


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## William Hung

Europa said:


> everyone knows that link, i already downloaded almost a tb of pdf books from it



1TB of books? you must be an Indian student lol. (that's who I got it from) 

@Viet copy the whole URL, don't click.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> B@stard don't quote my link!! I can get in trouble for linking p! rate materials. Just edit it out. Btw, the articles and books from there are academic stuff and not amateur internet analysts. You might even find articles on the batteries too.
> 
> I don't agree that kilo is more silent. we both can't know for sure but most analysis and articles I've read say it's the 214. There are other factors too such as propulsion system. It's not far fetched to think 214 is better since the they are newer generation and the Germans are not new to this sub game.
> 
> I don't have time to debate now gotta get back to working on my real stuff. I'll get back when I have time to find the exact articles and books.



I understand you, but again, take a look at all the problems that the German 214 had, they were not minor issues and one of them was that it was very noisy. Yes, they are a newer class, but new not always means better, the Lada is also a newer class but had a lot of problems. As I read, some of the problem with the 214 required a redesign of the sub which is not a great consolation for those countries that already bought it. I would be extremely weary of buying a new design that had so many design problems.

Specs are a relative thing, nobody gives you the REAL SPECS, you can only speculate what the diving depth and speed of an American sub is because they always say deeper than.... at least 30 knots, etc. That's classified information and everybody does the same thing.

Also, specs have to be validated, the promised specs of the 214 weren't real when Greece tested the sub. China is known for publishing big specs and claims that only exist in their imagination.

Anyway, I'll take the improved Kilo at $300 million over the Scorpene at $550 million any day, but that's just my take.

Time to go out to eat some good fish in beautiful Phu Quoc. We continue later.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> 1TB of books? you must be an Indian student lol. (that's who I got it from)
> 
> @Viet copy the whole URL, don't click.


no dns record found!
do I miss something? can you give me the IP address?



Europa said:


> mine is working, a slight difference from this one though, but i won't tell the secret method


ha ha ha...I tried to figure out the IP address of the server with different domains, but failed


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> no dns record found!
> do I miss something? can you give me the IP address?
> 
> 
> ha ha ha...I tried to figure out the IP address of the server with different domains, but failed



Its working for me, but only when I copied the url. Maybe Germany is blocking it?


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## Europa

Black Flag said:


> 1TB of books? you must be an Indian student lol. (that's who I got it from)
> 
> @Viet copy the whole URL, don't click.



i guess, i am much senior to you, i was done with a university's highest degree long time ago. no more i can reveal here. what's your discipline ? will you need to submit dissertation for the fulfillment of your masters?



Viet said:


> no dns record found!
> do I miss something? can you give me the IP address?
> 
> ha ha ha...I tried to figure out the IP address of the server with different domains, but failed



keep trying, it will work


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## C130

Black Flag said:


> Well Russia leased a nuke sub to India, but not many country has the money and resource to operate them anyway.
> 
> Nah for diesel sub, the French and German ones are better than the Kilo. The scorpene and type214 are only a little more expensive but has better specs with AIP. It has longer submerged range, longer endurance, yet more compact, more automation requiring less crew. And I suspect more quiet.
> 
> *The Kilo is outdated*. Only the Russian Lada/Amur can be compared to the Scorpene and type 214.



not sure if serious


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## Viet

this news is very expected:



> An online poll conducted by the BBC’s Vietnamese language service in July asked readers which country they preferred Vietnam to ally with. The US was chosen by *87%* of respondents, while China was selected by a mere *1%*.
> 
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-200814.html


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## Aepsilons

*Vietnam struts its military stuff for Dempsey*







*Vietnamese honor guards wait Thursday for the arrival of U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey for talks with Gen. Do Ba Ty, chief of the general staff of the Vietnamese Army, in Hanoi, Vietnam. (Tran Van Minh / AP)*


*DANANG, VIETNAM* — The Vietnamese military showed an unprecedented amount of leg here Thursday.

It sought to catch the eye of Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the first of his kind to visit the Communist country since its founding — and the withdrawal of U.S. forces.

From past-their-prime fighter jets and missile boats to spit-and-polish pilots and sailors from the People's Air Force and Navy, the Vietnamese put on a show. Dempsey seemed charmed.

"Forty-five years ago, I couldn't imagine we'd be sitting in this room, having this conversation," Dempsey told the Vietnamese Navy brass from Naval Zone 3.


No, in 1969, at the height of the war, the notion of U.S., Viet Cong and North Vietnamese military leaders posing for photos and exchanging gifts would have been considered absurd.

Though calling it a conversation might be overstating the stilted, translated, ceremonial chat, the talk and the talker intended to send a message. America, its top military officer said, is serious about shifting its focus and resources to the Pacific. His presence here alone, despite the latest fires in the Middle East, speaks louder than any prepared remarks he could deliver.

Dempsey, in meetings with academics, politicians and military officials here this week, stressed that Vietnam's strategic location between China to the north and bustling nations to the south, along with its long coastline with the South China Sea, makes it a central player in the region.

For their part, the Vietnamese were eager to show that they're up to the challenge.

First up was Vietnam Air Division 372. The grounds of its headquarters hold the inevitable spoils for the victors: 1960s U.S. warplanes, most likely captured when South Vietnam fell in 1975.

But on the flight line and in meeting rooms, it was all (or mostly all) smiles for the chairman. The Vietnamese showcased its hardware despite its age.

Young pilots stood by their 1960s-era MiG 21s, Russian-made fighter jets that bedeviled American fliers. The F-4's they flew had radar and missiles that allowed them to destroy the MiGs from distance.

But the Vietnamese pilots regularly popped up after the F-4's had flown past their bases, taking a heavy toll.

At Naval Zone 3's pier, Dempsey walked the gangway onto a patrol boat of the same vintage as the MiGs. It was unusual access to a Vietnamese naval ship for a high-ranking officer.

Vietnamese army minders popped up to point out what could (not much) and could not (most everything) be photographed. It's possible they, like militaries everywhere, are not eager to display capabilities or, more often, advertise vulnerabilities.

The ship in the adjacent slip appeared to have been painted recently, although not below the water line, suggesting that it may not have been thoroughly overhauled in some time. In any event, Vietnam would be hard-pressed to challenge the Chinese, who are increasingly asserting claims in the waters off Danang.

For now, Dempsey assured the Vietnamese sailors that the old enemies should nurture their new friendship carefully. He called for slow and steady progress.

"We won't rush each other," he said.


Vietnam struts its military stuff for Dempsey | Marine Corps Times | marinecorpstimes.com

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## Viet

greeting US General Martin Dempsey in Danang, a former US key military base during the Vietnam war


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## Viet

The most modern tank of the Vietnam people's Army: T-62 with 115mm smooth-bore cannon, a bit more modern and firepower than the 100mm from T-54/55s.


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## poopnose456

@Viet I thought the most Modern tank in the VPA was the T-55/54m3 :/ Here's an example photo below:


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## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> Yes, the French scorpene has option to install VLS for land attack missile.


We r talking abt export version. Sub with land attack missile is not defense weapon any more. Its deadly attack machine when being used to invade ur neighbors countries. Can French export that version ?? and pls give me the link which countries buy Scorpene with land attack missile.


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## xesy

Carlosa said:


> The possibility of the typhoon replacing Mig 21's is almost next to impossible, not only because of cost which is already enough of a reason, but also because they are totally different types of planes. VN needs to replace the Mig 21 with a single engine, light plane, the typhoon is a dual engine, heavier plane and at a price of way more than $100 million a piece, plus the extra logistical expenses of having to use western missiles and equipment for it, it just makes no sense.
> 
> If there is a European plane that can replace the Mig 21 that would be the Grippen which is also a single engine, light jet even that it cost about the same as a SU-30, but at least is cheap to operate and maintain.
> 
> Other choices would be the F-16 or the Tejas MK2 from India. If those options can't be made to workout, then it has to be replaced with heavier, dual engines jets (which are a lot more expensive to operate) like the SU-30 / 35 or the Mig 35 which I think it would be a good alternative.
> 
> There is no Mig 17 in operation in VN by the way, and VN never operated the Mig 27.


Yeah, that was a few years ago. With things going around now, VN will be likely to look to Japan or South Korea for the new type of fighter, starting with training airplane.



poopnose456 said:


> @Viet I thought the most Modern tank in the VPA was the T-55/54m3 :/ Here's an example photo below:
> View attachment 44441


There are rumors of a dozen of T-72s lying somewhere around Hanoi, but these are just rumors.


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## Viet

poopnose456 said:


> @Viet I thought the most Modern tank in the VPA was the T-55/54m3 :/ Here's an example photo below:
> View attachment 44441


Yes, you are right. T-55M3 with new 105mm *rifled *gun and fire control system outperforms the T-62.

What I mean back during the cold war the T-62 with 115 mm *smoothbore *gun was the first tank in the world which has this revolutionary design. Most modern tanks today for example T-90, Leopard 2 or Abrahams have smoothbore gun. If Vietnam army upgrades T-62 with modern fire control system and add more other things similar to T-55M3 (project T-54M3 is reportedly cancelled), the T-62M3 would outperform T-55M3.

Vietnam - People's Army


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## Viet

VN state media reports Kilo #4 begins factory-level sea trials on the Baltic Sea.


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## poopnose456

Is it possible that maybe some day the US open a Military Base in Vietnam again? I mean it happened in South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines.


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## NiceGuy

poopnose456 said:


> Is it possible that maybe some day the US open a Military Base in Vietnam again? I mean it happened in South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines.


No, its impossible except US can give VN a great help (unify Sub-Mekong region) like Soviet union.


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## xesy

poopnose456 said:


> Is it possible that maybe some day the US open a Military Base in Vietnam again? I mean it happened in South Korea, Japan, and the Philippines.


The problem here is beside SK starting as an ally of US, Japan was defeated and occupied against their will(though Japanese made the best out of it), Philippine used to be US colony in a short time (40 years, compare to VN was slaves to France for over 100 years) and did achieve independence by revolting against Japan, WITH the help of US in WW2. Many VNese believe VN was the victor in the VN war, and to the world, a super power like US withdrawing from a war was a big lost. Those prideful VNese will be the one who actively against US setting up a base in VN. They believe that if VN could win the strongest nation before, they can do it again. 

Personally, I think time changes, people must change as well. I am proud that VN could achieve such victory, military or political, against US during their high time. But the situation has changed. Winning a super power 40 years ago is different from winning a super power now. And other nations must have learnt something from VN war. Winning a war is important, but at what cost? Before we sacrificed 5 millions VNese in the VN war, and the ratio of VN-US kill rate is 10-1. That number is unacceptable in today standard. If a war happens in VN, whether VN wins or loses, whether the current govt survives or falls, there will be a lot a lot of VNese dies. So let's hope there won't be a war soon.


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## NiceGuy

xesy said:


> The problem here is beside SK starting as an ally of US, Japan was defeated and occupied against their will(though Japanese made the best out of it), Philippine used to be US colony in a short time (40 years, compare to VN was slaves to France for over 100 years) and did achieve independence by revolting against Japan, WITH the help of US in WW2. Many VNese believe VN was the victor in the VN war, and to the world, a super power like US withdrawing from a war was a big lost. Those prideful VNese will be the one who actively against US setting up a base in VN. They believe that if VN could win the strongest nation before, they can do it again.
> 
> Personally, I think time changes, people must change as well. I am proud that VN could achieve such victory, military or political, against US during their high time. But the situation has changed. Winning a super power 40 years ago is different from winning a super power now. And other nations must have learnt something from VN war. Winning a war is important, but at what cost? Before we sacrificed 5 millions VNese in the VN war, and the ratio of VN-US kill rate is 10-1. That number is unacceptable in today standard. If a war happens in VN, whether VN wins or loses, whether the current govt survives or falls, there will be a lot a lot of VNese dies. So let's hope there won't be a war soon.


U know why our pplation raise up to 90 million ?? Bcz we can accept 10 million people die in the next war. If u r worry abt it, then pls leave VN now before too late.

New policy just has been applied: all normal men under 30 years old must join the army when war happen


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## xesy

NiceGuy said:


> U know why our pplation raise up to 90 million ?? Bcz we can accept 10 million people die in the next war. If u r worry abt it, then pls leave VN now before too late.
> 
> New policy just has been applied: all normal men under 30 years old must join the army when war happen


Dude, I am no coward. In the height of the Haiyang 981 tension, I thought of leaving my job to join the army. What I meant is in the war with US, we have nothing to lose. They said they would bomb us back to the stone age, well we were already in the stone age. But now, everyone has something to lose. And we won't be ready to sacrifice that much anymore.

I know you are an extremist, but inside you are a patriot, like many other VNese. Our methods might be different but our love for VN is the same. Don't worry I am not one of those democracist "Rận Chủ". I just prefer peace over war, and avoid war if possible, even by sacrificing some minor value. Of course Paracels and Spartly are not one of those "minor value".

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## World Citizen

NiceGuy said:


> No, its impossible except US can give VN a great help (unify Sub-Mekong region) like Soviet union.


Nothing is Impossible, not 10 yrs from now but can be 20 yrs or 30 yrs .


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## xesy

World Citizen said:


> Nothing is Impossible, not 10 yrs from now but can be 20 yrs or 30 yrs .


Dude, @NiceGuy is talking about creating a Indochina Fed with VN on top. Are you sure the US will support VN doing that?


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## World Citizen

xesy said:


> Dude, @NiceGuy is talking about creating a Indochina Fed with VN on top. Are you sure the US will support VN doing that?


Maybe, like I said nothing is impossible , Cambodia, Laos vs Viet Nam united in one direction, we shall see .


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## xesy

World Citizen said:


> Maybe, like I said nothing is impossible , Cambodia, Laos vs Viet Nam united in one direction, we shall see .


VN, Laos and Cambodia combine will create a power imbalance in the region. Thailand, Myanmar will feel insecure. China won't want to see a new force rising next door. At least right now Cambodia is close to China. With VN on top, Indochina Fed will surely be anti-China.


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## poopnose456

Guys found a photo from Vietnam that shows weapons of future VPA firearms (WarComissar)



Correct me if I'm wrong but are those Ace Galil and Ak 103?


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## BoQ77

Actually, Vietnam self produced all of firearms as demand.
And some type of missiles with short and medium range.
Don't worry.


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## xesy

BoQ77 said:


> Actually, Vietnam self produced all of firearms as demand.
> And some type of missiles with short and medium range.
> Don't worry.


VN hasn't been able to self-produce artillery and anti-tank system. Our artillery is surely out of date, and anti-tank weapons are imported from Russia. 
@poopnose456 
Beside regular service rifle, VN just successfully produced a 12,7mm sniper rifle prototype, original design, and has plan for a production line. A sweet beast.


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## BoQ77

xesy said:


> VN hasn't been able to self-produce artillery and anti-tank system. Our artillery is surely out of date, and anti-tank weapons are imported from Russia.
> @poopnose456
> Beside regular service rifle, VN just successfully produced a 12,7mm sniper rifle prototype, original design, and has plan for a production line. A sweet beast.


you are wrong.
I paid many visits to military factories, I know.

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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> VN hasn't been able to self-produce artillery and anti-tank system. Our artillery is surely out of date, and anti-tank weapons are imported from Russia.
> @poopnose456
> Beside regular service rifle, VN just successfully produced a 12,7mm sniper rifle prototype, original design, and has plan for a production line. A sweet beast.



Vietnam self produces the whole range of artillery pieces all the way up to 152 mm howitzers and self propelled rocket launchers up to 122 mm. Vietnam's artillery is vey much up to date.

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## xesy

@BoQ77 @Carlosa Sorry, my bad. 
By up to date do you mean VN has some awesome stuffs like artillery rada, anti-rada, auto-reload system? In the 1979 war, VN artillery force was rendered ineffective by Chinese force because they had 2 artillery radar systems from the US (VN captured one but destroyed it). Can't let that happens again, you know.


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## Nike

xesy said:


> @BoQ77 @Carlosa Sorry, my bad.
> By up to date do you mean VN has some awesome stuffs like artillery rada, anti-rada, auto-reload system? In the 1979 war, VN artillery force was rendered ineffective by Chinese force because they had 2 artillery radar systems from the US (VN captured one but destroyed it). Can't let that happens again, you know.



you bought several of it from Russia, and i had suspicion Vietnam bought some artillery locating radar system from Israel too

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## NiceGuy

World Citizen said:


> Nothing is Impossible, not 10 yrs from now but can be 20 yrs or 30 yrs .


Many soldiers will feel angry if the Govt. allow US stationing in VN, and why do we need US troop when we can fight better than them ??


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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> @BoQ77 @Carlosa Sorry, my bad.
> By up to date do you mean VN has some awesome stuffs like artillery rada, anti-rada, auto-reload system? In the 1979 war, VN artillery force was rendered ineffective by Chinese force because they had 2 artillery radar systems from the US (VN captured one but destroyed it). Can't let that happens again, you know.



VN's artillery is up to date like I said, the guns are effective and modern enough, VN makes the whole range. What you are talking about is related to artillery, but not quite the same, its supportive equipment, radars that provide the firing coordinates of enemy artillery for counter battery fire and yes, VN has those too.

What VN doesn't have that I would like to see is heavier caliber rocket launchers like the 300 mm Smerch, tornado, etc, but its buying Israeli systems such as Extra and Ocular which fire precision guided munitions all the way to 300 mm shells.

So in conclusion, VN is doing fine in artillery, things have changed a bit in the Vietnamese army since 1979.

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## ice bomb

Carlosa said:


> VN's artillery is up to date like I said, the guns are effective and modern enough, VN makes the whole range. What you are talking about is related to artillery, but not quite the same, its supportive equipment, radars that provide the firing coordinates of enemy artillery for counter battery fire and yes, VN has those too.
> 
> What VN doesn't have that I would like to see is heavier caliber rocket launchers like the 300 mm Smerch, tornado, etc, but its buying Israeli systems such as Extra and Ocular which fire precision guided munitions all the way to 300 mm shells.
> 
> So in conclusion, VN is doing fine in artillery, things have changed a bit in the Vietnamese army since 1979.



BS as always. Vietnam is currently relying on Ukraine for artillery modernazation.

Unlike a troll like you, I always provide links:

http://www.american.edu/sis/aseanst...eoples-army-modernization-and-development.pdf

Talk less, and do more homework, kiddo.


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## World Citizen

NiceGuy said:


> Many soldiers will feel angry if the Govt. allow US stationing in VN, and why do we need US troop when we can fight better than them ??


It's not always Fight and Fight, and nothing is impossible for the Indochina Federation, this idea is can be done when the Vietnamese become powerful and rich .


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Many soldiers will feel angry if the Govt. allow US stationing in VN, and why do we need US troop when we can fight better than them ??


I don´t think so. why should we get angry if the US troops have bases in Vietnam? the Soviets had some in the past.

second, today the US armed forces are much better than our army, in any comparisons. After the war with Vietnam, America abandoned compulsory military service and began the age of volunteer military.



BoQ77 said:


> you are wrong.
> I paid many visits to military factories, I know.


can you reveal some details of your visits if allowed?


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## poopnose456

Maybe US troops stationed in Vietnam could also be a warning for China to back off. That way China would stop or think twice of doing any provocative activity against Vietnamese Sovereignty .

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## dichoi

poopnose456 said:


> Maybe US troops stationed in Vietnam could also be a warning for China to back off. That way China would stop or think twice of doing any provocative activity against Vietnamese Sovereignty .



we can look at Japanese, let ÚS army stationed in Okinawa too.

But we can have provision condition for that US soldier could not go to surroundings area to make troubles with the people are living there. They can fly to Thailand to take a relax.
We will limit them US personals, like what we did with Russian soldiers in Nha Trang military base in the past.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

poopnose456 said:


> Maybe US troops stationed in Vietnam could also be a warning for China to back off. That way China would stop or think twice of doing any provocative activity against Vietnamese Sovereignty .


 
Yessss, you Viets need protector big time , remember this 请神容易, 送神难


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## Carlosa

ice bomb said:


> BS as always. Vietnam is currently relying on Ukraine for artillery modernazation.
> 
> Unlike a troll like you, I always provide links:
> 
> http://www.american.edu/sis/aseanst...eoples-army-modernization-and-development.pdf
> 
> Talk less, and do more homework, kiddo.



You are the one talking bs kid, those old, incomplete sources is all you have to show? You only show that you don't know sh...t kid, go troll somewhere else and start to do your homework for a change.


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## Rechoice

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Yessss, you Viets need protector big time , remember this 请神容易, 送神难



God is by us we regained our independence from Han. God will be by you if Cantonese should dared to fight with Han to regain your Independence of Nan Yue.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Rechoice said:


> God is by us we regained our independence from Han. God will by you if Cantonese should dared to fight with Han to regain your Independence of Nan Yue.


 
Lol I think you should come back to us as uppon a time call Nan yue...it's still not too late.


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## NiceGuy

dichoi said:


> we can look at Japanese, let ÚS army stationed in Okinawa too.
> 
> But we can have provision condition for that US soldier could not go to surroundings area to make troubles with the people are living there. They can fly to Thailand to take a relax.
> We will limit them US personals, like what we did with Russian soldiers in Nha Trang military base in the past.


JP lost in WW2, so US troops can station any where in JP without JP's approval. So, if someone want US troop in VN, then, they should help US to defeat VN like defeating JP.

Except US can provide a great help like USSR, otherwhile, its never happen.

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## ice bomb

Carlosa said:


> You are the one talking bs kid, those old, incomplete sources is all you have to show? You only show that you don't know sh...t kid, go troll somewhere else and start to do your homework for a change.



Hmm like me see: 

Carlyle A. Thayer
Carlyle A. Thayer is Emeritus Professor, The University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra. He was educated at Brown and holds an M.A. in Southeast Asian Studies from Yale and a PhD in International Relations from The Australian National University. Professor Thayer is a Vietnam country expert and a Southeast Asia regional specialist. He has over 400 publications to his name including: Vietnam People's Army: Development and Modernization.
Bandar Seri Begawan: Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, 2009 and War By Other Means:
National Liberation and Revolution in Vietnam, 1954-1960. Boston and London: Unwin Hyman Ltd., 1989.


Carlosa something(his/her internet name).
Education: zero
credentials: zero

You will excuse me if I prefer Dr. Thayers paper before your trollings.

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## Viet

*14.07.2014*
Tammy Pham (Vietnam Film Club) interviewed Carlyle Thayer about the recent escalation with China, due to deployment of an oil rig into Vietnam EEZ. The move has pushed the relationship of both nations into a crisis not seen since the normalization 24 years ago.


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> JP lost in WW2, so US troops can station any where in JP without JP's approval. So, if someone want US troop in VN, then, they should help US to defeat VN like defeating JP.
> 
> Except US can provide a great help like USSR, otherwhile,* its never happen*.


Never say No.

our policy should be driven by pragmatism not dogmatism. enemy turns to friend and vice versa. past is past, today is today. common startegic interests and trust bound nations together.

the US armed forces do not need 650,000 men like they had deployed to Vietnam during the war. we don´t need a huge number, just so some 2,500 marines, similar to the size what the US deploys to Australia.

Important is the message: if you mess with Vietnam, so you will have to take on America as well! communist China seeks to change the status quo by force and we have to calculate with the worst. making ally with superpower America will increase our defence and offensive capability. With America, we can acquire modern weapons systems. Yeah why not, we can even theoretically acquire nuclear weapons and realize the indochinese confederation.

I can imagine, the US marines, air and naval forces could station in Danang. the city has air and sea ports, strategically located next to the SC Sea. America is very familar to Danang as it hosted a former US key military installation.

US General Martin Dempsey was there.


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## Carlosa

ice bomb said:


> Hmm like me see:
> 
> Carlyle A. Thayer
> Carlyle A. Thayer is Emeritus Professor, The University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra. He was educated at Brown and holds an M.A. in Southeast Asian Studies from Yale and a PhD in International Relations from The Australian National University. Professor Thayer is a Vietnam country expert and a Southeast Asia regional specialist. He has over 400 publications to his name including: Vietnam People's Army: Development and Modernization.
> Bandar Seri Begawan: Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, 2009 and War By Other Means:
> National Liberation and Revolution in Vietnam, 1954-1960. Boston and London: Unwin Hyman Ltd., 1989.
> 
> 
> Carlosa something(his/her internet name).
> Education: zero
> credentials: zero
> 
> You will excuse me if I prefer Dr. Thayers paper before your trollings.



You will excuse me if I prefer up to date information rather than a 5 year old article.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Never say No.
> 
> our policy should be driven by pragmatism not dogmatism. enemy turns to friend and vice versa. past is past, today is today. common startegic interests and trust bound nations together.
> 
> the US armed forces do not need 650,000 men like they had deployed to Vietnam during the war. we don´t need a huge number, just so some 2,500 marines, similar to the size what the US deploys to Australia.
> 
> Important is the message: if you mess with Vietnam, so you will have to take on America as well! communist China seeks to change the status quo by force and we have to calculate with the worst. making ally with superpower America will increase our defence and offensive capability. With America, we can acquire modern weapons systems. Yeah why not, we can even theoretically acquire nuclear weapons and realize the indochinese confederation.
> 
> I can imagine, the US marines, air and naval forces could station in Danang. the city has air and sea ports, strategically located next to the SC Sea. America is very familar to Danang as it hosted a former US key military installation.
> 
> US General Martin Dempsey was there.



I like the idea of a US military presence in Danang and Cam Ranh bay if they sign a defense treaty with full guarantees like the one with Japan. The airfield and naval base in Danang are rather small, they would need to be expanded.


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## ice bomb

Carlosa said:


> You will excuse me if I prefer up to date information rather than a 5 year old article.



Well, I am still here when you are ready to provide us with your up to date "information".


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## Rechoice

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Lol I think you should come back to us as uppon a time call Nan yue...it's still not too late.



when you are Han Chinese, you can challenge us like this or threat or bully if you want to say

but you are Cantonese, so better for you, to shoot up, do business and pay tax for Han Chinese.

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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> Never say No.
> 
> our policy should be driven by pragmatism not dogmatism. enemy turns to friend and vice versa. past is past, today is today. common startegic interests and trust bound nations together.
> 
> the US armed forces do not need 650,000 men like they had deployed to Vietnam during the war. we don´t need a huge number, just so some 2,500 marines, similar to the size what the US deploys to Australia.
> 
> Important is the message: if you mess with Vietnam, so you will have to take on America as well! communist China seeks to change the status quo by force and we have to calculate with the worst. making ally with superpower America will increase our defence and offensive capability. With America, we can acquire modern weapons systems. Yeah why not, we can even theoretically acquire nuclear weapons and realize the indochinese confederation.
> 
> I can imagine, the US marines, air and naval forces could station in Danang. the city has air and sea ports, strategically located next to the SC Sea. America is very familar to Danang as it hosted a former US key military installation.
> 
> US General Martin Dempsey was there.


U should know that US is far more dangerous than PLA army . US can turn VN into civil war again with their 'color revolt. ' when China can not.

Just look at Lybia,Syria , yesterday, they were very good US-EU friend . In the next day, they suddenly become US-EU's enemies and Colonel Gaddafi got head shot after that.

SO, if they dont treat VN like trustworthy friend, then, we can not rely on a so called 'alliance' with them.


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## poopnose456

@NiceGuy It's nice for you to point that out, but that's very unlikely to happen though, due to Vietnam's Strategic Position in Southeast Asia, Growing Economy, and a growing threat (China). Syria and Libya yes used to be US friends, which probably deteriorated due to our true friendship with Israel.


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## NiceGuy

poopnose456 said:


> @NiceGuy It's nice for you to point that out, but that's very unlikely to happen though, due to Vietnam's Strategic Position in Southeast Asia, Growing Economy, and a growing threat (China). Syria and Libya yes used to be US friends, which probably deteriorated due to our true friendship with Israel.


We should think abt how to stand firmly on our own foot than thinking abt the 'help' of the foreigners . We have 90 millions plus 3 or 4 millions over sea VNese. SO, we can accept the casualties up to 30 millions in the next war.

War is a good reason to kill some coward VNese if they think abt surrender to the enemies.


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## poopnose456

@NiceGuy Vietnam need's the help of foreigners for Military equipment, supplies, and Military support. Without it, Vietnam has less and weaker capabilities than China, and unlike you, I Value Human Life.


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## xesy

poopnose456 said:


> @NiceGuy Vietnam need's the help of foreigners for Military equipment, supplies, and Military support. Without it, Vietnam has less and weaker capabilities than China, and unlike you, I Value Human Life.


Don't talk with @NiceGuy about human life. He is ready to sacrifice 10 millions VNese if we fight China. Anyone who don't ready to do that, he will call them cowards.

Personally, I don't think US and VN could reach an agreement of US troops stationing in VN anytime soon. Here are some reasons: 
1. The VN war outcome was pretty clear: VN declared themselves victors, US called it strategic retreat and US citizens thought of it as a shameful defeat. Many VNese, including the leaders have been overconfident about VNese war capability and believe they won't need help from the country they beated in the past.
2. US and Japan were enemies, and JP was deafeted. That's why US stations their troops in JP as they see fit. US and VN were enemies, and US was force to withdraw troops before the end of the war, that was a political defeat. So the victor now seeks the loser for help. I believe both side won't throw away their face for that agreement.
3. Security problem: won't the US troops of this generation hold any grudge towards VNese for the casuality during the war? And what about the opposite? US had dominant power over JP so they could supperess any incident happened during their occupation. JP army was almost downgrade to police force after WW2. With VN, things get complicated. VN won't trust US to the degree of leaving their back open to US. With each US troop in VN, there must be 2,3 VNese troops watching over their every action. And when a clash between a US and a VNese, are you sure it will be contained? Won't things escalate to a skirmish, or even a war?

And of course China will jump up and down if US troop comes too close. So that won't happen soon.

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## NiceGuy

poopnose456 said:


> @NiceGuy Vietnam need's the help of foreigners for Military equipment, supplies, and Military support. Without it, Vietnam has less and weaker capabilities than China, and unlike you, I Value Human Life.


My friend, a normal soldier, work for a military petroleum company just has got the order to transfer to Spratly at any time. We r at the state of war now, all troops r ready to fight . Many VN guys will have to join the army and die in the next war soon, 10 Millions casualties is acceptable .


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## xesy

NiceGuy said:


> My friend, a normal soldier, work for a military petroleum company just has got the order to transfer to Spratly at any time. We r at the state of war now, all troops r ready to fight . Many VN guys will have to join the army and die in the next war soon, 10 Millions casualties is acceptable .


Unless it turns out to be an all-out war and Chinese infantry and tank cross the border, you won't have the chance to fight. A naval clash will be lighting fast, and an island battlefield make both side limit the force size and only send their best troops there. Why wait till the war to throw away your life to do something for the country? Work now, pay the tax, donate money for the army. That's much better than throwing away your life.

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## World Citizen

NiceGuy said:


> My friend, a normal soldier, work for a military petroleum company just has got the order to transfer to Spratly at any time. We r at the state of war now, all troops r ready to fight . Many VN guys will have to join the army and die in the next war soon, 10 Millions casualties is acceptable .


Vietnamese ready to fight and die for their sea and land for a good cause and good government, but not for this full corrupt communist regime, you tell me what good has communist regime do since the Vietnamese people win the war again the USA (almost 40yrs already).


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## Genesis

xesy said:


> Dude, I am no coward. In the height of the Haiyang 981 tension, I thought of leaving my job to join the army. What I meant is in the war with US, we have nothing to lose. They said they would bomb us back to the stone age, well we were already in the stone age. But now, everyone has something to lose. And we won't be ready to sacrifice that much anymore.
> 
> I know you are an extremist, but inside you are a patriot, like many other VNese. Our methods might be different but our love for VN is the same. Don't worry I am not one of those democracist "Rận Chủ". I just prefer peace over war, and avoid war if possible, even by sacrificing some minor value. Of course Paracels and Spartly are not one of those "minor value".



That's actually sane and rational, what the hell.


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## NiceGuy

World Citizen said:


> Vietnamese ready to fight and die for their sea and land for a good cause and good government, but not for this full corrupt communist regime, you tell me what good has communist regime do since the Vietnamese people win the war again the USA (almost 40yrs already).


Of course the Govt. need to work harder with less corruption, and they r cleaning the corruption now, the US-JP Govt. recognize VN effort in cleaning the corruption, thats why they come and help us.

since the Vietnamese people win the war again the USA, we also had to fight against China-Pol Pot from 1979 to 1989. VN just have more than 20 years in peace with so many problems after so many wars. We need more time to recover before we can keep going foward, bro.


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## xesy

World Citizen said:


> Vietnamese ready to fight and die for their sea and land for a good cause and good government, but not for this full corrupt communist regime, you tell me what good has communist regime do since the Vietnamese people win the war again the USA (almost 40yrs already).


Please don't come back to this matter. It's not about what good communists have done for VN, but what they will do for VN in case of a foreign invasion. By far their records on that matter is pretty. Communists fought Japanese, French, ending an over 100 years period of VN being a colony. Communists fought US and their pupet SV govt to unify VN. What they have achieved is admirable, but, of course there are corruption going on. When fighting against invader, we fight not for a flag, nor a govt, but for the motherland. And it's worth dieing for.


Genesis said:


> That's actually sane and rational, what the hell.


That's also go the same to China. I believe no Chinese mom and dad would want their sons joining a war. Even if China overuns VN in matter of days, there will be Chinese casuality. The majority might accept that, thinking it's just a small number, but to the family, no excuse, no apology letter, no compensate money is enough. What's good for them if the country moves forward, but some have to stay behind forever? @NiceGuy is not wrong about how much we are ready to sacrifice, but those are not number, those are people, man, husband, father, son, brothers. Each of them has a story, each of them has someone waiting for them and now they are ready to throw away their lives for a nameless rock, for an invisible red line.

I think that both sides should avoid war, show some restraints and work around on the peace talk. War is innevitable, that is human nature, that is what I believe. But let it be a battle of words, not a battle of arms.


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## poopnose456

@xesy 1. American people and government has moved on and want friendship with Vietnam. Hope Vietnamese people today has moved on since the war and from what I heard is that Vietnam is the most Pro-American country in Asia.

2. True can't argue with that.

3. Like I said, the American Generation today has already moved on. US has no hate for Vietnam today besides the fact that Vietnam is communist but that's it. Forgiveness and friendship. American's has learned a lot from Vietnam War History and I know since I live here that there is no Hate against Vietnam because of the Vietnam War. Times has changed, US has interest in Vietnam too, Politically and Economically.

I favor a US Naval Base in Vietnam would be great. 
Question: How will the Vietnamese Communist Regime react if Communist China invade Vietnam?

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## xesy

poopnose456 said:


> @xesy 1. American people and government has moved on and want friendship with Vietnam. Hope Vietnamese people today has moved on since the war and from what I heard is that Vietnam is the most Pro-American country in Asia.
> 
> 2. True can't argue with that.
> 
> 3. Like I said, the American Generation today has already moved on. US has no hate for Vietnam today besides the fact that Vietnam is communist but that's it. Forgiveness and friendship. American's has learned a lot from Vietnam War History and I know since I live here that there is no Hate against Vietnam because of the Vietnam War. Times has changed, US has interest in Vietnam too, Politically and Economically.
> 
> I favor a US Naval Base in Vietnam would be great.
> Question: How will the Vietnamese Communist Regime react if Communist China invade Vietnam?


Communists are known for their stubborness (from my experience, as my dad and my uncle are both communists). You'll be surperised how many VNese still hold grudge agaisnt US. Also VN is not pro-America. Many VNese still favor Russia over US.

Till now, VN still maintains there 3 NO policies, and if it'still in effect, there won't be any chance for a foreign military base.

The answer to your question is simple: we fight. If the communist govt surrenders, we overthrow them, set up a new govt, then we fight. Many VNese are not communists, but most of them are nationalists. That I can assure you.

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## NiceGuy

xesy said:


> Communists are known for their stubborness (from my experience, as my dad and my uncle are both communists). You'll be surperised how many VNese still hold grudge agaisnt US. Also VN is not a pro-American. Many VNese still favor Russia over US.


Right, in Mind-training course for our soldiers, US with its 'color revolt.' is still the most dangerous thing for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of VN.

China army is poorly trained, low morale in fighting and corrupted with fighter engines still have to buy from Russia,so, they r not so dangerous like what they r trying to show off now.


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## xesy

NiceGuy said:


> Right, in Mind-training course for our soldiers, US with its 'color revolt.' is still the most dangerous thing for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of VN.
> 
> China army is poorly trained, low morale in fighting and corrupted with fighter engines still have to buy from Russia,so, they r not so dangerous like what they r trying to show off now.


Time has changed, so does the enemy. VN can't be enemies to the whole world. We have to make friend, even to former foe. I don't trust US enough to let them have troops in VN, but I don't hate having them around the area either.

Don't underestimate the enemy and overestimate ourself. Doing that won't change the balance of power, but help us better prepare against them when the time come.


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## dichoi

Party chef of commie party said recently on VTV that "we can not choice our neighbor...." and he stop. I guess that he could say in further sentence that "...but, we can choice our friend."

I think, cold war is died. Japan, USA ... is Vietnam's friend now. The game is just going on.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I like the idea of a US military presence in Danang and Cam Ranh bay if they sign a defense treaty with full guarantees like the one with Japan. The airfield and naval base in Danang are rather small, they would need to be expanded.


Yes, Danang is ideally located, next to South China Sea. Airfield and naval base can be upgraded in no time.


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## Viet

xesy said:


> Time has changed, so does the enemy. VN can't be enemies to the whole world. We have to make friend, even to former foe. *I don't trust US enough to let them have troops in VN*, but I don't hate having them around the area either.
> 
> Don't underestimate the enemy and overestimate ourself. Doing that won't change the balance of power, but help us better prepare against them when the time come.


surely, trust can´t be built overnight. are you northerner? as southerner I have a more favorite view on America.
perhaps this article is of your interest, from the US department of defence. Yes, it is all about trust. It is the basis for everything. an alliance never works if trust does not exist among partners.

Defense.gov News Article: Dempsey Building Trust in Vietnam Visit

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## xesy

Viet said:


> surely, trust can´t be built overnight. are you northerner? as southerner I have a more favorite view on America.
> perhaps this article is of your interest, from the US department of defence. Yes, it is all about trust. It is the basis for everything. an alliance never works if trust does not exist among partners.
> 
> Defense.gov News Article: Dempsey Building Trust in Vietnam Visit


I am a northerner, grew up in a province right next to China. Luckily I had a chance to study in Saigon for a few years. During that time, I developed a more neutral way of thinking, and started judging about things people taught me in highschool about history, about politics. I don't favor any particular foreign countries, well except Japan maybe, I always love Japan. But it has nothing to do with politic or history. Their culture just attracts me naturally.

Back to the topic, you are right about trust must be built up gradually. But trust between VN and US is far from what I would call a start. There are still people die from US bombs and mines every years. There are still victims of Agent Orange suffering. There are still US soldiers remain missing from the war. Until VN and US work those things out, then we can start talking about improving further relationship. Of course China and Russia will get in the way somehow. So a VN-US alliance will not happen anytime soon.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Totally correct, the cheapest European subs would cost at least $500 million compared to the $300 million of a Kilo and the Kilo is actually more silent than both of those.



Ok, is there any reason/data to show how the Kilo is more silent than the Scorpene/Type-214? don't say its becuase of those rubber anechoic tiles, cause the Scorpene/Type-214 has them too (the german uses them first in WW2 u-boats while the soviet only adopted them much later).

First of all, AIP is not overated. Whether its worth spending money on it is another issue/debate. But you can't deny that running in AIP mode is more silent. This link shows that when the Type-214 is in Battery+AIP mode, there is already a significant increase in submerged endurance even at the speed of 8 knots:

http://media.bmt.org/bmt_media/resources/33/SubmarinePowerandPropulsion-Trends&Opportunities.pdf

Also, a restriction of 4-5knots in AIP does not make it overated like you said:



> The top speed of many of the modern SSK designs is around 20 knots. This speed is partly selected due to the self-
> noise created above this speed which makes it difficult to detect other vessels. Due to the era of modern high-speed
> torpedoes and other munitions, the top speed of an SSK is not set to outrun a torpedo as the power penalty would be
> immense.
> 
> *The key requirement is range, not top speed*: a good range will permit operations far from base-port, as well as
> extended duration in theatre once the submarine has arrived.
> The transit to the theatre may allow snorting and be
> on batteries to avoid depleting the AIP fuels and oxidant. Self-noise on such occasions is still critical but to arrive in
> a realistic timescale, the speed in transits needs to be greater than the submerged speed of economic advance where
> the propulsive power equals the ships base cruise electrical power demand. Transit speeds of 8 to 10 knots are
> therefore to be expected with snorting between once and twice a day. A reasonable future transit requirement would
> be 12,000nm in 50 days at 10 knots.
> When on patrol in theatre, the AIP would be used and the duration at speeds between 4 and 5 knots can now be over
> 3 weeks.
> 
> Figure 2 also shows that the future AIP-based Type 214 will be able to stay immersed for over 1 month. This
> compares with the Type 212A record of 2 weeks submerged without snorting with fuel-cells between Germany and
> Spain in April 2006 [Ref. 3].
> 
> The ability to stay on the sea bed for extended periods of time for deployment of UUV and their recovery and
> simply for the reconnoitring of passing shipping with a possible view to trailing them is also a key part of the
> requirements set for an SSK.
> 
> *Littoral Operation*
> The usual role of an SSK in peacetime is the need to monitor events near shore. This leads to a real need for stealth
> and so low indiscretion and noise reduction and elimination are key objectives.
> With the improved passive sonar performance of many MOTS products and a greater number of potential
> adversarial SSK’s at sea, it is evermore necessary to sustain stealth. These operating conditions have changed the
> need for power and the storage of energy.
> *Therefore the use of diesel engines to recharge batteries is increasingly seen as a limiting feature to achieving the
> necessary stealth. The AIP would provide the direct power to the ships services in this mode.* The excess power
> from the AIP would also be used to replenish batteries so that top speeds could continue to be reached if so
> demanded.
> 
> In the past, power delivery and energy storage has been predicated around sprint conditions for evasion after a
> strike. Whilst this continues to be a key design requirement, noise from hull turbulence is difficult to avoid at
> speeds above 20 knots and so although such speeds may be required for sprint, they are not necessary for transits.
> *Consequently the challenge is less power-driven but centred more around energy storage and submerged air-
> independent methods to recharge the energy storage*
> 
> *A suitable requirement would be to consider how best to recharge the batteries without the noise of diesel engine
> operations.* This might comprise an alternative passive surface-breathing power-source (SBPS) such as a fuel cell
> which is much quieter. Its reduced noise would allow for longer snorting without the risk of indiscretion. Therefore
> the SBPS could be rated at a lower power than the current diesel engines.



The Kilo class can only charge the batteries through its diesel engines and requires to surface more frequently than the AIP equipped Type-214.



> The use of diesel engines for snorting at Periscope Depth (PD) to recharge the batteries presents a noisy solution to
> a necessary function. Although such engines could be acoustically enclosed the confines of a submarine make this
> difficult to achieve and the future pressing stealth targets mean that a diesel has to be seen as a prime target for
> replacement.


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## poopnose456

What if there was a Vietnam-Philippine-Japan Military Alliance? Wonder how that would work out.


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## William Hung

@Carlosa Here is another interesting paper called "Submarine Hull Form Optimization Case Study" by C. Warren and M. Thomas (you can search in the link I gave you).

Note that the Kilo class has a highly tapered stern (the rate at which the hull profile transitions from a maxi-
mum radius to the propeller hub radius. A highly tapered stern is one in which this transition occurs slowly, result-
ing in a relatively slender profile)










The newer subs like the type-214 or even the Lada/Amur has a less tapered stern (the article would call this full-stern).






Basically, the paper argue that:



> A full stern design allows considerable flexibility in the submarine internal and external arrangements and provides more evenly distributed buoyancy along the longitudinal axis of the submarine. This buoyancy *allows the propulsion equipment to be shifted aft* and thus provides more forward space for command and control functions.
> 
> Recent order-of-magnitude studies have shown that a full stern may reduce the submarine length by 5 to 18 percent (Jackson 1995; Trost 1996). The shorter submarine will also have a length-to-diameter ratio closer to the hydrodynamic optimum of approximately six to one (Burcher and Rydill1994)



And this full stern hull with hydorodynamic optimum ratio allows it to achieve:



> a full stern submarine may actually achieve a higher maximum speed with the same installed horsepower due to the shorter hull form and more optimal length-to diameter ratio....
> 
> The ultimate goal is to answer the question of whether a full stern is a better hull envelope in general than a
> tapered stern....
> 
> Analysis indicates that the full stern has a greater maximum speed than a comparable tapered stern submarine.
> The full stern speed is 25.1 knots compared to the tapered stern speed of 22.2 knots. Thus, these results
> support the idea that the full stem submarine has potential benefits in powering characteristics.



Baiscally, the full stern hull is a more efficient design (hydrodynamic-wise) in terms of speed. With the same propulsion power, a highly tapered stern hull would go slower than a full stern one. You can see why most modern subs are now less tapered than the Kilo.

However, this paper doesn't say anything about stealth. Another paper I've read, which I can't find it yet, basically says that the Type-214 would be more stealthy than the Kilo (more tapered) because:

- The propulsion motor was able to be shifted closer to the propeller (since its less tapered) so the propeller shaft is shorter (worry less about vibration and less mounts).
- Since the hull is a more efficient design and more compact, the propulsion system requires less power and most likely slower propulsion shaft speed (so this mean its more quiet). The "improved" kilo has a lower propeller speed than the earlier Kilo but it only achieved this by using a more powerful motor. The Type-214 can achieve a low propeller speed because of its better hydrodynamic design.

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## NiceGuy

xesy said:


> Time has changed, so does the enemy. VN can't be enemies to the whole world. We have to make friend, even to former foe. I don't trust US enough to let them have troops in VN, but I don't hate having them around the area either.
> 
> Don't underestimate the enemy and overestimate ourself. Doing that won't change the balance of power, but help us better prepare against them when the time come.


Dont allow US base in VN doesnt mean we r US's enemy, bro. We can fight alone without any foreigner troops, if u dont wanna fight, then just leave VN. Our pplation is 90 millions and still keep raising, 1 million leave VN is not a big problem.

And what make u guys keep begging for US troops when we can fight well ?? US is not a saint , they wont come and offer free help, Okay ?? Why u guys dont think that US troop may collude with China again like in 1979 to harm VN again ??

This is my last comment abt the idea of US troop in VN. it simply never happen unless US can give a great help like USSR, or they have to defeat our army.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> @Carlosa Here is another interesting paper called "Submarine Hull Form Optimization Case Study" by C. Warren and M. Thomas (you can search in the link I gave you).
> 
> Note that the Kilo class has a highly tapered stern (the rate at which the hull profile transitions from a maxi-
> mum radius to the propeller hub radius. A highly tapered stern is one in which this transition occurs slowly, result-
> ing in a relatively slender profile)
> 
> 
> The newer subs like the type-214 or even the Lada/Amur has a less tapered stern (the article would call this full-stern).
> 
> 
> Basically, the paper argue that:
> 
> 
> 
> And this full stern hull with hydorodynamic optimum ratio allows it to achieve:
> 
> 
> 
> Baiscally, the full stern hull is a more efficient design (hydrodynamic-wise) in terms of speed. With the same propulsion power, a highly tapered stern hull would go slower than a full stern one. You can see why most modern subs are now less tapered than the Kilo.
> 
> However, this paper doesn't say anything about stealth. Another paper I've read, which I can't find it yet, basically says that the Type-214 would be more stealthy than the Kilo (more tapered) because:
> 
> - The propulsion motor was able to be shifted closer to the propeller (since its less tapered) so the propeller shaft is shorter (worry less about vibration and less mounts).
> - Since the hull is a more efficient design and more compact, the propulsion system requires less power and most likely slower propulsion shaft speed (so this mean its more quiet). The "improved" kilo has a lower propeller speed than the earlier Kilo but it only achieved this by using a more powerful motor. The Type-214 can achieve a low propeller speed because of its better hydrodynamic design.



All your points are good. My big issues with your perspective is that you promote the type 214 and its specs and from my perspective I wouldn't touch such sub with a 12 foot pole because it has a history of so many design problems that it was actually a horror story, so for me, those specs don't mean anything because they are specs in paper. I just don't trust that design and the same goes for the Amur / Lada class because of the same reasons.

The Scorpene on the other hand is fine, I'm not aware of any serious issues, I think its a good sub and is certainly a more modern design than the Kilos. One spec where the Kilo is better than the Scorpene is the submerged speed, up to 25 knots for the Kilo, up to 20 knots for the Scorpene.

Why I think the Kilos are more silent than western subs? Because it has a very well established reputation of being a very silent sub!

Quoting Naval-technology.com: "The Type 636 submarine is considered to be one of the quietest diesel submarines in the world. It is said to be capable of detecting an enemy submarine at a range three to four times greater than it can be detected itself."

_“The Project 636 Kilo-class submarine has been dubbed the “black hole” by the U.S. Navy for its level of quietness. The Project 636MV-class sub of Vietnam has improved stealth features through the removal of flooding ports and treating the hull with multilayer anechoic rubber tiles. The tiles are fitted on casings and fins to absorb active sonar waves that reduce and distort the return signal. The anechoic tiles also shield sounds from within the submarine thus reducing the range of detection by passive sonar.”_

Why the US Navy calls the Kilos the "black holes"? Because they have a habit of approaching US vessels undetected, something that they have done many times and we all know that the US Navy has the most sophisticated ASW equipment, so for me, those are first class credentials, I'm not aware of any western subs with such a reputation. By the way, the _anechoic rubber tiles in the Kilos as I understand are more comprehensive and complex than in other subs, they are actually a multilayer design that is extremely effective.

I understand that my reasons to consider the Kilos more silent than other subs are subjective and its impossible to prove, but they are solid arguments never the less.

This whole debate started because you said that the Kilos are obsolete, my point is that a sub that is so difficult to detect as to be called a "black hole" and with a good missile capability with the Club missiles can't be considered obsolete by any means, the project 636M of Vietnam is a very significant upgrade of the original Kilo and even that is not as modern as newer designs, it does its job with excellent results, its reliable, its a proven design, it has no issues and its very cheap. 

Furthermore, the manufacturer, Rubin, its developing an AIP kit to retrofit into existing Kilos, so there you go, you'll be able to have a Kilo with AIP, not bad at all! _


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yes, Danang is ideally located, next to South China Sea. Airfield and naval base can be upgraded in no time.



I'm not so sure that the Danang airfield and naval base can be easily expanded; the airfield is in the middle of the city and it shares the land with the airport, the airport itself is about to be expanded, I don't think there is extra land for the air base. I think a new base would have to be built outside the city, near the mountains (near the mountains would have the option of building tunnels into the mountains for underground parking of planes, that's what the chinese do in most of their air bases for added protection).

The naval base has limited space, here are some pics of the naval base:

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## xesy

poopnose456 said:


> What if there was a Vietnam-Philippine-Japan Military Alliance? Wonder how that would work out.


As I said, the 3 NOs policy is still in effect. In case you don't know what it is, it basically means: VN will never join any military alliance, will never be a military ally of any nation, will never let any nation set up base in VN and use this nation against that nation. People are debating whether we should keep this defense policy. But until then, the V-P-J alliance is only a P-J alliance.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Totally correct, the cheapest European subs would cost at least $500 million compared to the $300 million of a Kilo and *the Kilo is actually more silent than both of those.*



Hmmm it looks like you're not here for a honest debate, you're only here to defend the VCP/VPA at all cost. While I only said I "suspect" the Scorp/U214 are more silent than the Kilo, you said outright that the Kilo is *actually* more silent. And I haven't seen any good argument/data to even suggest this.



Carlosa said:


> All your points are good. My big issues with your perspective is that you promote the type 214 and its specs and from my perspective I wouldn't touch such sub with a 12 foot pole because it has a history of so many design problems that it was actually a horror story, so for me, those specs don't mean anything because they are specs in paper. I just don't trust that design and the same goes for the Amur / Lada class because of the same reasons.



There are many views about the Greek's 214 Submarine debacle. Some say it is all an excuse from the Greeks to avoid paying due to their financial crisis (I have an interview article from HDW reps who said their subs met all standards). Some say they are all minor defects and kinks that were overblown by the Greeks, but were easily later rectified (seems to be this case for S Korea). If it were so bad, why did the Turks recently ordered them? why did the Portuguese ordered them? they seem happy with theirs. The most important and telling sign is that the S Koreans have ordered a second batch of the 214, and they ordered more units than the first batch. This is far from your suggested "horror story" where the specs is "only on paper and don't mean anything."



> The Scorpene on the other hand is fine, I'm not aware of any serious issues, I think its a good sub and is certainly a more modern design than the Kilos. One spec where the Kilo is better than the Scorpene is the submerged speed, up to 25 knots for the Kilo, up to 20 knots for the Scorpene.



Did you read the article I linked for you? the top speed limit of subs are self-imposed, they deliberately make the limit. Going over 20 knots is noisy and will interfere and compromise its own sonar. There is no point going an extra 4-5knot over the typical 20knot, no sub can ever outrun a torpedo, ASW aircraft or even a ASW ship. Like what the article said, stealth and range/endurance is more important.



> Why I think the Kilos are more silent than western subs? Because it has a very well established reputation of being a very silent sub!



What? how does that proves or even suggest the Kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214?



> Quoting Naval-technology.com: "The Type 636 submarine is considered to be one of the quietest diesel submarines in the world. It is said to be capable of detecting an enemy submarine at a range three to four times greater than it can be detected itself."
> 
> _“The Project 636 Kilo-class submarine has been dubbed the “black hole” by the U.S. Navy for its level of quietness._



Firstly, naval-tech.com is just a web portal for military news and promo/marketing style writing. They are not research engineers doing technical analysis and experiment. One of their journalist is just a military tech ethusiast who even go on another forum, he mostly go to expo and copy-paste the news and promo/marketing materials from company reps. You can easily see this writing style in their website. One of the paper I refer you to is a article from a peer-reviewed scientific journal written by research engineers.

They give technical arguments why one hull is better than another, they don't just repeat promo/marketing materials from company reps.

Secondly, nothing from what you quoted shows or even suggest that the Kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214.



> _The Project 636MV-class sub of Vietnam has improved stealth features through the removal of flooding ports and treating the hull with multilayer anechoic rubber tiles. _



This only says that the improved kilo is more steathy than the earlier Kilo. Doesn't mean that its more steathy than the Scorp/214.



> _The tiles are fitted on casings and fins to absorb active sonar waves that reduce and distort the return signal. The anechoic tiles also shield sounds from within the submarine thus reducing the range of detection by passive sonar.”_
> 
> ...By the way, the _anechoic rubber tiles in the Kilos as I understand are more comprehensive and complex than in other subs, they are actually a multilayer design that is extremely effective._



Like I said, anechoic rubber is not exclusive to russian subs. In fact, the germans used it decades before the soviet did. Can you provide source that the russian design is more effective/superior to the German ones? what design does the German tiles have?



> Why the US Navy calls the Kilos the "black holes"? Because they have a habit of approaching US vessels undetected, something that they have done many times and we all know that the US Navy has the most sophisticated ASW equipment, so for me, those are first class credentials, I'm not aware of any western subs with such a reputation



This is just bad logic. The Kilo has a nick name "black hole", therefore it is more silent than the Scorp/214?

The Phantom F-4 has the nick name "Mig killer" and has a reputation of killing Migs. They have a habit of shooting down Migs. These are first class credential. The F-22 does not have this nick name or reputation, therefore the F-4 is superior to the F-22????

Like the F-22, the Scorp/214 are newer generation subs and has different operators working in different region. You can't make comparision purely based on their history and nick name.

Btw, when was the last time a Kilo succesfully trailed US ships undetected? exactly who and when was the Kilo given the nick name "black hole"? Is there precise info out there? or are these just recycled writings from journalist? If they are words from decades ago, how is this relevant to the current debate about the steath character of the Kilo vs Scorp/214?



> _I understand that my reasons to consider the Kilos more silent than other subs are subjective and its impossible to prove, but they are solid arguments never the less._



No, I haven't seen solid arguments yet other than promo/marketing type quotes from naval-tech and journalists. And your claim is not just subjective, you said the Kilo is *actually* more silent than the Scorp/214. I have atleast given some technical analysis for my views. I can find more from peer-reviewed journals, but it seems like you have no interest in a real debate. You only want to defend the VCP/VPA here.



> _This whole debate started because you said that the Kilos are obsolete, my point is that a sub that is so difficult to detect as to be called a "black hole" and with a good missile capability with the Club missiles can't be considered obsolete by any means,_



No, I never said the Kilo are obsolete, read my posts again. I said it is outdated. Meaning the technology used on the Kilo is old compared to the newer generation like the Scorp/214/Lada (even if the Lada wasn't entirely successfully, it still tried to utilise newer tech). The AIP system is readily available for the Scorp/214, while the Kilo *currently* does not have that option.

The highly tapered stern design of the Kilo hull is an example of an outdated design, just like how the article argues. Even the Chinese S20 sub, which some western media say is based on the Kilo, does not have such highly tapered stern. This design alone has implication for hydrodynamic, power efficiency and acoustic signature. No one, other than an ardent apologist for the VCP/VPA, would deny the superior technology of AIP systems of the western subs and its significance. There are also potentially many other examples of newer western technology like newer diesel engines, etc. Calling the Kilo technologically outdated compared to the newer generation is justified. However, it does not mean the Kilo is useless and I've never said they are obsolete.



> _the project 636M of Vietnam is a very significant upgrade of the original Kilo and even that is not as modern as newer designs, it does its job with excellent results, its reliable, its a proven design, it has no issues and its very cheap._



How does this prove that the Kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214 like you've said earlier? It only say that VN's Kilo is an improvement over the older Kilo design.



> _Furthermore, the manufacturer, Rubin, its developing an AIP kit to retrofit into existing Kilos, so there you go, you'll be able to have a Kilo with AIP, not bad at all! _



You totally disregard the Lada for its "problems". You do know its AIP development is one part of those "problems" don't you?


----------



## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Hmmm it looks like you're not here for a honest debate, you're only here to defend the VCP/VPA at all cost. While I only said I "suspect" the Scorp/U214 are more silent than the Kilo, you said outright that the Kilo is *actually* more silent. And I haven't seen any good argument/data to even suggest this.
> 
> 
> 
> There are many views about the Greek's 214 Submarine debacle. Some say it is all an excuse from the Greeks to avoid paying due to their financial crisis (I have an interview article from HDW reps who said their subs met all standards). Some say they are all minor defects and kinks that were overblown by the Greeks, but were easily later rectified (seems to be this case for S Korea). If it were so bad, why did the Turks recently ordered them? why did the Portuguese ordered them? they seem happy with theirs. The most important and telling sign is that the S Koreans have ordered a second batch of the 214, and they ordered more units than the first batch. This is far from your suggested "horror story" where the specs is "only on paper and don't mean anything."
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read the article I linked for you? the top speed limit of subs are self-imposed, they deliberately make the limit. Going over 20 knots is noisy and will interfere and compromise its own sonar. There is no point going an extra 4-5knot over the typical 20knot, no sub can ever outrun a torpedo, ASW aircraft or even a ASW ship. Like what the article said, stealth and range/endurance is more important.
> 
> 
> 
> What? how does that proves or even suggest the Kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214?
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, naval-tech.com is just a web portal for military news and promo/marketing style writing. They are not research engineers doing technical analysis and experiment. One of their journalist is just a military tech ethusiast who even go on another forum, he mostly go to expo and copy-paste the news and promo/marketing materials from company reps. You can easily see this writing style in their website. One of the paper I refer you to is a article from a peer-reviewed scientific journal written by research engineers.
> 
> They give technical arguments why one hull is better than another, they don't just repeat promo/marketing materials from company reps.
> 
> Secondly, nothing from what you quoted shows or even suggest that the Kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214.
> 
> 
> 
> This only says that the improved kilo is more steathy than the earlier Kilo. Doesn't mean that its more steathy than the Scorp/214.
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, anechoic rubber is not exclusive to russian subs. In fact, the germans used it decades before the soviet did. Can you provide source that the russian design is more effective/superior to the German ones? what design does the German tiles have?
> 
> 
> 
> This is just bad logic. The Kilo has a nick name "black hole", therefore it is more silent than the Scorp/214?
> 
> The Phantom F-4 has the nick name "Mig killer" and has a reputation of killing Migs. They have a habit of shooting down Migs. These are first class credential. The F-22 does not have this nick name or reputation, therefore the F-4 is superior to the F-22????
> 
> Like the F-22, the Scorp/214 are newer generation subs and has different operators working in different region. You can't make comparision purely based on their history and nick name.
> 
> Btw, when was the last time a Kilo succesfully trailed US ships undetected? exactly who and when was the Kilo given the nick name "black hole"? Is there precise info out there? or are these just recycled writings from journalist? If they are words from decades ago, how is this relevant to the current debate about the steath character of the Kilo vs Scorp/214?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I haven't seen solid arguments yet other than promo/marketing type quotes from naval-tech and journalists. And your claim is not just subjective, you said the Kilo is *actually* more silent than the Scorp/214. I have atleast given some technical analysis for my views. I can find more from peer-reviewed journals, but it seems like you have no interest in a real debate. You only want to defend the VCP/VPA here.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I never said the Kilo are obsolete, read my posts again. I said it is outdated. Meaning the technology used on the Kilo is old compared to the newer generation like the Scorp/214/Lada (even if the Lada wasn't entirely successfully, it still tried to utilise newer tech). The AIP system is readily available for the Scorp/214, while the Kilo *currently* does not have that option.
> 
> The highly tapered stern design of the Kilo hull is an example of an outdated design, just like how the article argues. Even the Chinese S20 sub, which some western media say is based on the Kilo, does not have such highly tapered stern. This design alone has implication for hydrodynamic, power efficiency and acoustic signature. No one, other than an ardent apologist for the VCP/VPA, would deny the superior technology of AIP systems of the western subs and its significance. There are also potentially many other examples of newer western technology like newer diesel engines, etc. Calling the Kilo technologically outdated compared to the newer generation is justified. However, it does not mean the Kilo is useless and I've never said they are obsolete.
> 
> 
> 
> How does this prove that the Kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214 like you've said earlier? It only say that VN's Kilo is an improvement over the older Kilo design.
> 
> 
> 
> You totally disregard the Lada for its "problems". You do know its AIP development is one part of those "problems" don't you?



I think we are going around in circles a bit too much. I already told you that I agree that the 214 and Scorpene are newer, more modern designs, but i don't agree that the Kilo is outdated in any meaningful way. You can't prove that the 214 is more silent and neither can I about the Kilo, nobody can prove it either way. We only have circumstantial evidence, but the unresolved noise issues with the 214 are enough for me (see below).

You said that I just want to favor the Kilo no matter what, well, I feel you are doing the same thing, you are clearly biased in favor of the 214 and against the Kilo, so we are not going to agree. I have a lot of respect for what the US Navy says about the Kilo, you disregard that and ask for the type of proof that is impossible to obtain, so we are going nowhere. Be happy with your preference, I'm happy with mine.

By the way, Indonesia is negotiating with Russia right now for a sizable purchase of "outdated" Kilos 636M.

The South Koreans also had and have significant issues with the 214 by the way.

The problems with the 214 design, from Wikipedia:

"The Type 214 procurement programs of international customers have had a history of technical problems. The first Type 214 submarine sold to Korea, Son Won-il, was reported to suffer noise problems allegedly due to faults in HDW's Type 214 design. South Korean and Greek Type 214 submarines had a host of other nearly identical problems, including instability while surfaced, periscope vibrations and seawater leaking in the hydraulics. While these problems in the South Korean Type 214s have been reportedly resolved, the noise level has yet to be reduced as promised by HDW. The company was fined $4.1 million by DAPA in February 2008 for ongoing technical problems. In November, a South Korean National Assembly demanded price reductions for the remaining six submarines, arguing that HDW was using the South Korean market to correct faults in the Type 214 to increase the submarine's overall international export potential. It is uncertain if DAPA received a price reduction for the fourth unit when it was contracted to DSME."

If the issues with the Greek 214's are related to payment issues, how come the South Korean 214's have the same problems as the Greek ones?

The 214 has a noise problem that has not being fixed yet and you are trying to argue that is more silent than the Kilo? Please !!!!! The 214 is clearly a faulty design, period!

I think I made my point and your bias for the 214 has been clearly shown! I'll take the reliable "black hole" Kilo any day over the noisy 214,


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I think we are going around in circles a bit too much. I already told you that I agree that the 214 and Scorpene are newer, more modern designs, but i don't agree that the Kilo is outdated in any meaningful way. You can't prove that the 214 is more silent and neither can I about the Kilo, nobody can prove it either way. We only have circumstantial evidence, but the unresolved noise issues with the 214 are enough for me (see below).



No I'm not goin around in circle. I only said I "suspect" that the Scorp/U214 is more silent than the Kilo. Then I begin to give arguments for it, such as the Hull analysis by research engineer or the AIP system which are currently not available for the Kilo. Even if it is only my suspicion, I still gave stronger arguments than yours.

You said "the kilo is *actually* more silent than them", so give me the acoustic signature data (even with the "defective" U214 acoustic signature data) for both so I can make a comparison and agree that your claim is correct. You were not just giving an opinion or a speculation, you said it "is actually more silent." So give me *concrete* evidence to show your statement is true or admit you were bluffing.



> You said that I just want to favor the Kilo no matter what, well, I feel you are doing the same thing, you are clearly biased in favor of the 214 and against the Kilo, so we are not going to agree. I have a lot of respect for what the US Navy says about the Kilo, you disregard that and ask for the type of proof that is impossible to obtain, so we are going nowhere. Be happy with your preference, I'm happy with mine.



I don't care about your or mine favoritism or bias. I want to see proofs or good arguments. If you have no proofs, then why did you assert that *"the kilo is actually more silent"*??? if you say "I prefer kilo, I think its better" then I will have no problem, but you claim that it is actually more silent.

I did not disregard the US's view, what I ask was, how can the nick name "black hole" be a good proof that the kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214???



> By the way, Indonesia is negotiating with Russia right now for a sizable purchase of "outdated" Kilos 636M.



I don't know much about the Indonesian plan. Last I heard they signed contract to buy type 209 from SK. Its better to ask Indonesian members.

And how is this relevant to the debate between Kilo vs Scorp/214?



> The South Koreans also had and have *significant* issues with the 214 by the way.



Significant? you know this how? can you give a reliable source other than wikipedia with a broken link to a 2008 webpage?



> The problems with the 214 design, from Wikipedia:
> 
> "The Type 214 procurement programs of international customers have had a history of technical problems. The first Type 214 submarine sold to Korea, Son Won-il, was reported to suffer noise problems allegedly due to faults in HDW's Type 214 design. South Korean and Greek Type 214 submarines had a host of other nearly identical problems, including instability while surfaced, periscope vibrations and seawater leaking in the hydraulics. While these problems in the South Korean Type 214s have been reportedly resolved, the noise level has yet to be reduced as promised by HDW. The company was fined $4.1 million by DAPA in February 2008 for ongoing technical problems. In November, a South Korean National Assembly demanded price reductions for the remaining six submarines, arguing that HDW was using the South Korean market to correct faults in the Type 214 to increase the submarine's overall international export potential. It is uncertain if DAPA received a price reduction for the fourth unit when it was contracted to DSME."
> 
> If the issues with the Greek 214's are related to payment issues, how come the South Korean 214's have the same problems as the Greek ones?



I gave you a reference to a peer-reviewed article and you gave me a wikipedia page with a reference to a broken link.

Identical problems? really? give me a reliable source to the specifics without a broken link. You know the Greek gave a huge lists of "problems," it would be surprise if they had "identical" problems. What really went on is still disputed. The Greek claims they are big issues, HDW claim they are minor that were easily rectified.

You and I neither know what the real reason was. But here are some evidence to discredit the Greeks claim:

-Greece's economy almost went bankrupt shortly after this dispute.
-While the Portuguese went a head and made a order, and until now did not complained about any major issues.
-Turkey also made an order for 6
-South Korea made a order for a bigger second batch. Their lawsuit only asked for compensation for "using the South Korean market to *correct* faults in the Type 214 to increase the submarine's overall international export potential." Firstly, they didn't file a lawsuit for not meeting specs or standards. It clearly say the German used them to *correct faults*. This suggest that the faults has been succesfuly rectified like I said, otherwise they would also add that to the lawsuit and they wouldn't make a second order.



> ]The 214 has a noise problem that has *not being fixed yet* and you are trying to argue that is more silent than the Kilo? Please !!!!! The 214 is *clearly* a faulty design, period!



Firstly, where is your evidence that the "problem" has not being fixed yet? it is *clearly* a faulty design? even now in 2014? I gave you a list that suggest why it is problem solved right now....So pls give me some arguments why it is "clearly" a faulty design that has not being fixed yet in 2014.

I don't want to think the Portuguese, Turks and S Koreans are that stupid...so give me some evidence pls.

Secondly, even if we assume that there are "noise" issue that haven't been resolved...do you still have evidence or proof to show that *the kilo is actually more quiet"*??? do you have data back up this assertion?? do you have the acoustic signature of both?



> I think I made my point and your bias for the 214 has been clearly shown! I'll take the reliable "black hole" Kilo any day over the noisy 214,



I don't care about mine or your bias...I'm still waiting for your arguments or evidence why the kilo is actually more silent than the Scorp/214.

Notice I haven't even touch upon the Scorpene yet, so your "faulty design" claim is even more weak there.


----------



## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Dont allow US base in VN doesnt mean we r US's enemy, bro. We can fight alone without any foreigner troops, if u dont wanna fight, then just leave VN. Our pplation is 90 millions and still keep raising, 1 million leave VN is not a big problem.
> 
> And what make u guys keep begging for US troops when we can fight well ?? US is not a saint , they wont come and offer free help, Okay ?? Why u guys dont think that US troop may collude with China again like in 1979 to harm VN again ??
> 
> This is my last comment abt the idea of US troop in VN. it simply never happen unless US can give a great help like USSR, or they have to defeat our army.


bro, what is your plan if the chinese return with more oil rigs and warships and intrude into our EEZ and do whatever they please?

what is your plan if they introduce ADIZ and start banning our fishermen from working within their 9-dash line?

you are one of the voices who opposes allying with America. and you are in the minority. I posted a poll recently conducted in Vietnam. the majority sees China is a threat (not surprisingly) and wants an alliance with America.

You wrongly assume allying with America equalling to surrending of sovereignty. No, it is not. It is a step to strengthen our defence and offensive capacity. Sure, you are right, everything has a cost, nothing is free in this world. but that does not mean we should sit idle and do nothing. risk comes with reward.

Further, you make the mistake by believing America would abandon Vietnam if China offers a better deal in one day. Because if America does so, her allies beginning from Germany to Japan to Philippines would lose their trust to the superpower. Will the US risk to lose her credibility for a local strategic gain? well, nobody can predict the future, but betrayal of an ally is a very serious issue. No matter what, we should implement steps to prevent a such fallout. Just in case.

today thing is not comparable to what happened in 1979 when America supported China cause. back then the US had been hostile to Vietnam and sought ways to compensate the humiliated defeat.


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## Nike

meh we scrapped the plan after see it firsthand and the technical crew who visiting it just taking one word to comment, it's Junk. The Russian offered us junks in which all of them not worth to be taken seriously, only rusty boats with full of holes, much better for us to keeping our old U-209 than taking and refurbished their old Kilos. On other hands Navy taking seriously their offer of Amur class with VLS system and AIP technologies. If only our wallet can afford it, we surely will taking Amur class submarines for special mission subs while building a lot of U-209 chang bo go class for quantity.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> No I'm not goin around in circle. I only said I "suspect" that the Scorp/U214 is more silent than the Kilo. Then I begin to give arguments for it, such as the Hull analysis by research engineer or the AIP system which are currently not available for the Kilo. Even if it is only my suspicion, I still gave stronger arguments than yours.
> 
> You said "the kilo is *actually* more silent than them", so give me the acoustic signature data (even with the "defective" U214 acoustic signature data) for both so I can make a comparison and agree that your claim is correct. You were not just giving an opinion or a speculation, you said it "is actually more silent." So give me *concrete* evidence to show your statement is true or admit you were bluffing.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about your or mine favoritism or bias. I want to see proofs or good arguments. If you have no proofs, then why did you assert that *"the kilo is actually more silent"*??? if you say "I prefer kilo, I think its better" then I will have no problem, but you claim that it is actually more silent.
> 
> I did not disregard the US's view, what I ask was, how can the nick name "black hole" be a good proof that the kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214???
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much about the Indonesian plan. Last I heard they signed contract to buy type 209 from SK. Its better to ask Indonesian members.
> 
> And how is this relevant to the debate between Kilo vs Scorp/214?
> 
> 
> 
> Significant? you know this how? can you give a reliable source other than wikipedia with a broken link to a 2008 webpage?
> 
> 
> 
> I gave you a reference to a peer-reviewed article and you gave me a wikipedia page with a reference to a broken link.
> 
> Identical problems? really? give me a reliable source to the specifics without a broken link. You know the Greek gave a huge lists of "problems," it would be surprise if they had "identical" problems. What really went on is still disputed. The Greek claims they are big issues, HDW claim they are minor that were easily rectified.
> 
> You and I neither know what the real reason was. But here are some evidence to discredit the Greeks claim:
> 
> -Greece's economy almost went bankrupt shortly after this dispute.
> -While the Portuguese went a head and made a order, and until now did not complained about any major issues.
> -Turkey also made an order for 6
> -South Korea made a order for a bigger second batch. Their lawsuit only asked for compensation for "using the South Korean market to *correct* faults in the Type 214 to increase the submarine's overall international export potential." Firstly, they didn't file a lawsuit for not meeting specs or standards. It clearly say the German used them to *correct faults*. This suggest that the faults has been succesfuly rectified like I said, otherwise they would also add that to the lawsuit and they wouldn't make a second order.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, where is your evidence that the "problem" has not being fixed yet? it is *clearly* a faulty design? even now in 2014? I gave you a list that suggest why it is problem solved right now....So pls give me some arguments why it is "clearly" a faulty design that has not being fixed yet in 2014.
> 
> I don't want to think the Portuguese, Turks and S Koreans are that stupid...so give me some evidence pls.
> 
> Secondly, even if we assume that there are "noise" issue that haven't been resolved...do you still have evidence or proof to show that *the kilo is actually more quiet"*??? do you have data back up this assertion?? do you have the acoustic signature of both?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about mine or your bias...I'm still waiting for your arguments or evidence why the kilo is actually more silent than the Scorp/214.
> 
> Notice I haven't even touch upon the Scorpene yet, so your "faulty design" claim is even more weak there.



The Kilo is more silent than the 214 because the 214 has an unfixed noise problem that is unfixed because it requires a redesign of the sub, period!

You debate the same way as "grand" historian, when you don't like the arguments, you demand proof that you know is impossible or difficult for lay people to obtain.

You show me the acoustical data that shows your claim about the 214 and about the fact that the noise problem has been fixed and show me statements from South Korean officials where they say that there are no issues with the 214.

Why I bring up Indonesia? Because you bring up South Korea, etc, I can make the same argument as you, do you think the Indonesians are stupid? And stop using the South Koreans as a reference of a happy customer of the 214 when they are clearly not happy with it.

I'm done wasting time with you in this useless debate, you only accept what fits your preferences. Its like talking to a chinese wall.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> meh we scrapped the plan after see it firsthand and the technical crew who visiting it just taking one word to comment, it's Junk. The Russian offered us junks in which all of them not worth to be taken seriously, only rusty boats with full of holes, much better for us to keeping our old U-209 than taking and refurbished their old Kilos. On other hands Navy taking seriously their offer of Amur class with VLS system and AIP technologies. If only our wallet can afford it, we surely will taking Amur class submarines for special mission subs while building a lot of U-209 chang bo go class for quantity.



Thank you for the update on the Indonesian second hand Kilo deal, I was not aware that it was about second hand subs.

That makes a lot of sense, second hand Russian ships are useless after spending many years rusting away in port without maintenance after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, but anyway, our debate here is about new subs and their technology.

I also think that the Korean chang bo go class is a good option for quantity, the Koreans have significantly improved the 209 design, enlarged it and is about the same price as the Kilos, $305 million. The South Koreans are the upcoming dark horse in submarines.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I'm not so sure that the Danang airfield and naval base can be easily expanded; the airfield is in the middle of the city and it shares the land with the airport, the airport itself is about to be expanded, I don't think there is extra land for the air base. I think a new base would have to be built outside the city, near the mountains (near the mountains would have the option of building tunnels into the mountains for underground parking of planes, that's what the chinese do in most of their air bases for added protection).
> 
> The naval base has limited space, here are some pics of the naval base:
> 
> View attachment 44928
> View attachment 44929
> View attachment 44930


you are right. I overlooked the issue. the army needs to build something new. the place to be is probably here, Son Tra Peninsula, yes, near the mountain, not too far from Danang. With money and expertise from America, we can build a second Hawaii naval base 

How was your Phu Quoc vacation?


----------



## Viet

madokafc said:


> meh we scrapped the plan after see it firsthand and the technical crew who visiting it just taking one word to comment, it's Junk. The Russian offered us junks in which all of them not worth to be taken seriously, only rusty boats with full of holes, much better for us to keeping our old U-209 than taking and refurbished their old Kilos. On other hands Navy taking seriously their offer of *Amur class *with VLS system and AIP technologies. If only our wallet can afford it, we surely will taking Amur class submarines for special mission subs while building a lot of U-209 chang bo go class for quantity.


is your country seriously considering buying Amur subs?
isn´t China your friend? are chinese subs an option for you?


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## Nike

Viet said:


> is your country seriously considering buying Amur subs?
> isn´t China your friend? are chinese subs an option for you?



meh doesn't take any interest at that, Indonesian Navy much prefer European model Subs and Ships than China or even Russian models (they've offered us but we reject it)


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## William Hung

Hehehehe brother don't get mad. You are acting like NiceGuy, you like to start argument with others but when you can no longer argue, you get mad. Are you guys brother? 

It is simple, if you want to claim some facts, then back it up! If you're only giving opinions or speculation, then I don't mind. 

Read again at the beginning, you're the one who started the debate. I was only talking with xesy and said that the Scorp/214 is better than kilo cause of better specs and I suspect they are more silent. 

Then you jump in and * challenged* me to give details why it's better or more silent. I list the superior specs but you said ahhh specs are classified and not accurate blah blah (so why SK don't file lawsuit?). 

I then told you its my speculation and give some arguments why it's more silent. I also said we both can't know for sure. BUT you still went ahead and claim the kilo is actually more silent. 

I gave you some links and article to support my speculation and ask you to provide your evidence or argument for your factual claims. You then quote some journalist cliché and non academic website that doesn't even say anything about kilo being more silent. I pointed this out and you started to get mad and make even more unsupported factual claims. LOL

You challenged me to give arguments to support my speculation which I did. I then challenge you to give arguments for your factual claims. You get mad and say it's impossible... well then, don't go around making factual claims and challenging people. 



Carlosa said:


> The Kilo is more silent than the 214 because the 214 has an unfixed noise problem that is unfixed because it requires a redesign of the sub, period!



See, making more factual claims without evidence. Is the noise problem in fact still * unfixed* even in 2014?? evidence where? 



> You debate the same way as "grand" historian, when you don't like the arguments, you demand proof that you know is impossible or difficult for lay people to obtain.
> 
> You show me the acoustical data that shows your claim about the 214 and about the fact that the noise problem has been fixed and show me statements from South Korean officials where they say that there are no issues with the 214.



I only demand proofs for the factual claims that you've made. You say kilo * is actually* more silent, so show me your proofs. 

I said I only * suspected* that Scorp/214 is more silent but still give you some solid arguments anyway. So I don't need these acoustic data. You made a * factual claim* that kilo is more silent so you're the one who needs the acoustic data. 

SK didn't add anything about unfixed issues in their lawsuit. Contrarily, they said they were being used to "correct faults" which is a good indication it has been fixed. It is you who now need to provide evidences that it has not been fixed in 2014.



> Why I bring up Indonesia? Because you bring up South Korea, etc, I can make the same argument as you, do you think the Indonesians are stupid? And stop using the South Koreans as a reference of a happy customer of the 214 when they are clearly not happy with it.



Unlike you I don't claim to know everything and make unsupported false claims. I know that Indonesia is under contract with SK for U209 but I don't make the same fake bluff like you that they are * Right Now* under negotiation for Kilos. 

SK was bought up when you said U214 has many unresolved issues. Why SK don't put that in their lawsuit but went ahead to order more? their lawsuit only said they were being used to correct faults. This suggest it's indeed solved to a satisfactory standard. The onus is on you to show that it's currently not solved yet. Putting these symbols >> !!!!!! will not make your assertion proven. You should have just used "QED" it's a little better than "!!!" 



> I'm done wasting time with you in this useless debate, you only accept what fits your preferences. Its like talking to a NiceWall.



You the one who started the debate and challenged me. When I challenge you back, you started to use "!!!!!!" 

Don't get mad, it's only the Internet. With more time, you will get better at defending the VCP/VPA. Keep your hopes up. 

Love, 
Black Flag


----------



## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> No I'm not goin around in circle. I only said I "suspect" that the Scorp/U214 is more silent than the Kilo. Then I begin to give arguments for it, such as the Hull analysis by research engineer or the AIP system which are currently not available for the Kilo. Even if it is only my suspicion, I still gave stronger arguments than yours.
> 
> You said "the kilo is *actually* more silent than them", so give me the acoustic signature data (even with the "defective" U214 acoustic signature data) for both so I can make a comparison and agree that your claim is correct. You were not just giving an opinion or a speculation, you said it "is actually more silent." So give me *concrete* evidence to show your statement is true or admit you were bluffing.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about your or mine favoritism or bias. I want to see proofs or good arguments. If you have no proofs, then why did you assert that *"the kilo is actually more silent"*??? if you say "I prefer kilo, I think its better" then I will have no problem, but you claim that it is actually more silent.
> 
> I did not disregard the US's view, what I ask was, how can the nick name "black hole" be a good proof that the kilo is more silent than the Scorp/214???
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much about the Indonesian plan. Last I heard they signed contract to buy type 209 from SK. Its better to ask Indonesian members.
> 
> And how is this relevant to the debate between Kilo vs Scorp/214?
> 
> 
> 
> Significant? you know this how? can you give a reliable source other than wikipedia with a broken link to a 2008 webpage?
> 
> 
> 
> I gave you a reference to a peer-reviewed article and you gave me a wikipedia page with a reference to a broken link.
> 
> Identical problems? really? give me a reliable source to the specifics without a broken link. You know the Greek gave a huge lists of "problems," it would be surprise if they had "identical" problems. What really went on is still disputed. The Greek claims they are big issues, HDW claim they are minor that were easily rectified.
> 
> You and I neither know what the real reason was. But here are some evidence to discredit the Greeks claim:
> 
> -Greece's economy almost went bankrupt shortly after this dispute.
> -While the Portuguese went a head and made a order, and until now did not complained about any major issues.
> -Turkey also made an order for 6
> -South Korea made a order for a bigger second batch. Their lawsuit only asked for compensation for "using the South Korean market to *correct* faults in the Type 214 to increase the submarine's overall international export potential." Firstly, they didn't file a lawsuit for not meeting specs or standards. It clearly say the German used them to *correct faults*. This suggest that the faults has been succesfuly rectified like I said, otherwise they would also add that to the lawsuit and they wouldn't make a second order.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, where is your evidence that the "problem" has not being fixed yet? it is *clearly* a faulty design? even now in 2014? I gave you a list that suggest why it is problem solved right now....So pls give me some arguments why it is "clearly" a faulty design that has not being fixed yet in 2014.
> 
> I don't want to think the Portuguese, Turks and S Koreans are that stupid...so give me some evidence pls.
> 
> Secondly, even if we assume that there are "noise" issue that haven't been resolved...do you still have evidence or proof to show that *the kilo is actually more quiet"*??? do you have data back up this assertion?? do you have the acoustic signature of both?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about mine or your bias...I'm still waiting for your arguments or evidence why the kilo is actually more silent than the Scorp/214.
> 
> Notice I haven't even touch upon the Scorpene yet, so your "faulty design" claim is even more weak there.



The Kilo is more silent than the 214 because the 214 has an unfixed noise problem that is unfixed because it requires a redesign of the sub, period!

You debate the same way as "grand" historian, when you don't like the arguments, you demand proof that you know is impossible or difficult for lay people to obtain.

You show me the acoustical data that shows your claim about the 214 and about the fact that the noise problem has been fixed and show me statements from South Korean officials where they say that there are no issues with the 214.

Why I bring up Indonesia? Because you bring up South Korea, etc, I can make the same argument as you, do you think the Indonesians are stupid? You are not informed enough about Indonesia's plans to buy the Kilo? Then inform yourself, my time is valuable, I already wasted enough of it with you. And stop using the South Koreans as a reference of a happy customer of the 214 when they are clearly not happy with it.

I'm done wasting time with you in this useless debate, you only accept what fits your preferences. Its like talking to a


Black Flag said:


> Hehehehe brother don't get mad. You are acting like NiceGuy, you like to start argument with others but when you can no longer argue, you get mad. Are you guys brother?
> 
> It is simple, if you want to claim some facts, then back it up! If you're only giving opinions or speculation, then I don't mind.
> 
> Read again at the beginning, you're the one who started the debate. I was only talking with xesy and said that the Scorp/214 is better than kilo cause of better specs and I suspect they are more silent.
> 
> Then you jump in and * challenged* me to give details why it's better or more silent. I list the superior specs but you said ahhh specs are classified and not accurate blah blah (so why SK don't file lawsuit?).
> 
> I then told you its my speculation and give some arguments why it's more silent. I also said we both can't know for sure. BUT you still went ahead and claim the kilo is actually more silent.
> 
> I gave you some links and article to support my speculation and ask you to provide your evidence or argument for your factual claims. You then quote some journalist cliché and non academic website that doesn't even say anything about kilo being more silent. I pointed this out and you started to get mad and make even more unsupported factual claims. LOL
> 
> You challenged me to give arguments to support my speculation which I did. I then challenge you to give arguments for your factual claims. You get mad and say it's impossible... well then, don't go around making factual claims and challenging people.
> 
> 
> 
> See, making more factual claims without evidence. Is the noise problem in fact still * unfixed* even in 2014?? evidence where?
> 
> 
> 
> I only demand proofs for the factual claims that you've made. You say kilo * is actually* more silent, so show me your proofs.
> 
> I said I only * suspected* that Scorp/214 is more silent but still give you some solid arguments anyway. So I don't need these acoustic data. You made a * factual claim* that kilo is more silent so you're the one who needs the acoustic data.
> 
> SK didn't add anything about unfixed issues in their lawsuit. Contrarily, they said they were being used to "correct faults" which is a good indication it has been fixed. It is you who now need to provide evidences that it has not been fixed in 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike you I don't claim to know everything and make unsupported false claims. I know that Indonesia is under contract with SK for U209 but I don't make the same fake bluff like you that they are * Right Now* under negotiation for Kilos.
> 
> SK was bought up when you said U214 has many unresolved issues. Why SK don't put that in their lawsuit but went ahead to order more? their lawsuit only said they were being used to correct faults. This suggest it's indeed solved to a satisfactory standard. The onus is on you to show that it's currently not solved yet. Putting these symbols >> !!!!!! will not make your assertion proven. You should have just used "QED" it's a little better than "!!!"
> 
> 
> 
> You the one who started the debate and challenged me. When I challenge you back, you started to use "!!!!!!"
> 
> Don't get mad, it's only the Internet. With more time, you will get better at defending the VCP/VPA. Keep your hopes up.
> 
> Love,
> Black Flag



Relax man, When did I get mad? I just don't want to keep wasting time.

I stated my opinions, I stated why and I said they are based on circumstantial evidence. You say I'm wrong? Then prove it! Show me the data!

You can't show the data for the same reason that I can't, we are not the manufactures of those subs, right? So we don't have the data to prove it either way.

As I said before, be happy with your opinions, I'm happy with mine, no need to keep wasting time for nothing. 

Lots of love to you too


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you are right. I overlooked the issue. the army needs to build something new. the place to be is probably here, Son Tra Peninsula, yes, near the mountain, not too far from Danang. With money and expertise from America, we can build a second Hawaii naval base
> 
> How was your Phu Quoc vacation?



Can't build an air base in Son Tra peninsula, the whole thing is a mountain, no flat land there. The areas next to Son Tra are the actual city and the ocean, there is no space there.

Son Tra actually is a beautiful green area with a protected park area where there is an actual dense jungle like in Africa or the Amazon, quite amazing to have it right next to the city. The port, naval base and the Song Thu shipyard are in Son Tra. The Song Thu shipyard is where the Gepard ships go for maintenance.

The only available area that I can think of would be west of Danang next to the mountains if there is enough space, but I'm not sure, otherwise it would it have to be further away.

Yes, Danang has a super strategic location for the south china sea, it deserves to have major naval and air bases, not small bases like it is now. Cam Ranh will continue to be the main naval base, but Danang should be a strong number two. It also needs to be a big base for the coast guard and the fisheries surveillance force.

Phu Quoc was ok, that island has a good future, it needs 3 or 4 years to finish all the roads and infrastructure, new resorts, etc and then it will be like Phuket. I ate fish up to my ears there.

Here are some pics of how chinese air bases use the tunnels in the mountains, I think VN should do the same.

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## Viet

@Carlosa

here is another view on Vietnam-China current relationship from a German perspective. Also, it covers the latest escalation, actual reconciliation attempt and the visit of the special envoy Nguyen Phu Trong to Beijing. the conclusion: the row has changed the way Vietnamese perceive China. Unfortunately more to the negative territory.

I am surprised of so many Vietnam experts.

_



Dr. Martin Grossheim is Adjunct Professor at the Department of Southeast Studies at Passau University/Germany. His research and teaching interests focus on *modern Vietnamese history*.

Click to expand...

_
Vietnam seeking to balance relations with China | Asia | DW.DE | 25.08.2014

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## Carlosa

Another good article to read:

*Indian FM wants Vietnam to be India’s security-defense partner. Thanhnien news*

Indian FM wants Vietnam to be India’s security-defense partner | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily



Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> here is another view on Vietnam-China current relationship from a German perspective. Also, it covers the latest escalation, actual reconciliation attempt and the visit of the special envoy Nguyen Phu Trong to Beijing. the conclusion: the row has changed the way Vietnamese perceive China. Unfortunately more to the negative territory.
> 
> I am surprised of so many Vietnam experts.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam seeking to balance relations with China | Asia | DW.DE | 25.08.2014



Good article, I think the only useful purpose of sending the envoy to china is to gain time because its useless to expect that the chinese will honor any agreement, they will break it at the moment that is convenient for them to do so.


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## Carlosa

Another good article to read, this one is very important for Vietnam, It seems like the US is ready to flex muscle with the chinese and help Vietnam:

*US flags China as a maritime outlaw. Asia Times Online*

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/CHIN-01-250814.html


----------



## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> bro, what is your plan if the chinese return with more oil rigs and warships and intrude into our EEZ and do whatever they please?
> 
> what is your plan if they introduce ADIZ and start banning our fishermen from working within their 9-dash line?
> 
> you are one of the voices who opposes allying with America. and you are in the minority. I posted a poll recently conducted in Vietnam. the majority sees China is a threat (not surprisingly) and wants an alliance with America.
> 
> You wrongly assume allying with America equalling to surrending of sovereignty. No, it is not. It is a step to strengthen our defence and offensive capacity. Sure, you are right, everything has a cost, nothing is free in this world. but that does not mean we should sit idle and do nothing. risk comes with reward.
> 
> Further, you make the mistake by believing America would abandon Vietnam if China offers a better deal in one day. Because if America does so, her allies beginning from Germany to Japan to Philippines would lose their trust to the superpower. Will the US risk to lose her credibility for a local strategic gain? well, nobody can predict the future, but betrayal of an ally is a very serious issue. No matter what, we should implement steps to prevent a such fallout. Just in case.
> 
> today thing is not comparable to what happened in 1979 when America supported China cause. back then the US had been hostile to Vietnam and sought ways to compensate the humiliated defeat.


Why dont u read my post before asking me ?? Why my friends, the normal soldiers, working for military petroleum company has just got an order to transfer to Spratly isl at any time ?? Will he come there just to sit and watch China oil rig ??

And u forget that VN control the most important part of SCS(east sea), if we cover it with sea mine, then China economy plus many countries which can not trade with China will collapse ,too. If China start a war, their economy will collapse before they can harm VN.

None of my friend including many guys working for the Govt. plus guys serving in Vn army think VN need US troops. So u have to wait until me and my friend-their families-my family all die in the next war first , then think abt US troops in Vn later

On PDF, Im in minority, but in real life, Im in majority, u can come back to VN and ask people in the North who have son serving in the army or working for the Govt.(dont ask the Catholic or Christian) if they want US troop in VN or not . Currently, Im living in the North, near Ha Noi.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another good article to read:
> 
> Indian FM wants Vietnam to be India’s security-defense partner | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily


that is indeed very promising. India media speculates India and Vietnam are likely to sign key agreements during the visit of the President to Vietnam next month.
Key pacts to be signed during President's visit to Vietnam | Brahmand News


Carlosa said:


> Good article, I think the only useful purpose of sending the envoy to china is to gain time because its useless to expect that the chinese will honor any agreement, they will break it at the moment that is convenient for them to do so.


I am afraid you are right. Chinese want to dictate, not negotiate.


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## BoQ77

NiceGuy said:


> Why dont u read my post before asking me ?? Why my friends, the normal soldiers, working for military petroleum company has just got an order to transfer to Spratly isl at any time ?? Will he come there just to sit and watch China oil rig ??
> 
> And u forget that VN control the most important part of SCS(east sea), if we cover it with sea mine, then China economy plus many countries which can not trade with China will collapse ,too. If China start a war, their economy will collapse before they can harm VN.
> 
> None of my friend including many guys working for the Govt. plus guys serving in Vn army think VN need US troops. So u have to wait until me and my friend-their families-my family all die in the next war first , then think abt US troops in Vn later
> 
> On PDF, Im in minority, but in real life, Im in majority, u can come back to VN and ask people in the North who have son serving in the army or working for the Govt.(dont ask the Catholic or Christian) if they want US troop in VN or not . Currently, Im living in the North, near Ha Noi.



We don't want to be called a threat to freedom of navigating.


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## NiceGuy

BoQ77 said:


> We don't want to be called a threat to freedom of navigating.


If China or other nations start the war against VN first, then they r the threat, not VN, and must be eliminated by all means.

Update news:

*India to train Vietnamese pilots to fly Sukhoi fighters*
August 27, 2014 Alexander Korablinov, RIR
New Delhi is also considering the sale of BrahMos missiles to the Southeast Asian country, although no deal is imminent.




By 2015, Vietnam will have a fleet of 36 Russian-manufactured Su-30MK2 fighter jets. Source: AP
India and Vietnam are likely to sign a defence agreement, under which Vietnamese pilots will be trained to operate Russian-built Sukhoi fighters, sources in the Indian Defence Ministry told RIR. The agreement is likely to be signed when Indian President Pranab Mukherjee visits the Southeast Asian country in September.




Vietnam looking to purchase BrahMos cruise missiles

The details are being finalised during the on-going visit of Indian External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj to Vietnam, the sources said. Vietnam had earlier asked India to train its defence personnel in using Russia-built Kilo class submarines along with the Su-30 fighters that the country uses.

By 2015, Vietnam will have a fleet of 36 Russian-manufactured Su-30MK2 fighter jets. The Indian Air Force (IAF) operates a fleet of Su-30MKIs, air superiority fighters jointly developed by Sukhoi and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. Malaysian pilots have also been trained by the IAF. Last year, India agreed to train 500 Vietnamese submariners to operate Kilo submarines that Vietnam will receive in 2016 from Russia. 

India will also consider the sale of the Indo-Russian BrahMos missiles to Vietnam, although a deal is not imminent, the sources added. They said Vietnam is keen to procure these missiles to combat a potential military threat from China. Relations between Hanoi and Beijing have cooled during the last few years because of disputed islands on the South China Sea, which are believed be rich in energy deposits. China claims territorial ownership of the entire sea and its islets and has similar disputes with many of its neighbours.




Read section:
Defence and Security
I*ndian Defence Ministry sources added that while Vietnam is viewed as one of India’s strongest allies in Southeast Asia*, *the China factor would be a key in deciding whether to sell BrahMos missiles*. “We understand their concerns, but then China is not ready to appreciate our concerns about the threat from Pakistan,” a Defence Ministry official told RIR on the condition of anonymity since he was not authorised to talk to the media. The official denied that Vietnam would be used as a bargaining chip with China, while adding that a few South American countries also approached India for the possible sale of BrahMos missiles. 

India to train Vietnamese pilots to fly Sukhoi fighters | Russia & India Report

Update news:

*India to train Vietnamese pilots to fly Sukhoi fighters*
August 27, 2014 Alexander Korablinov, RIR
New Delhi is also considering the sale of BrahMos missiles to the Southeast Asian country, although no deal is imminent.




By 2015, Vietnam will have a fleet of 36 Russian-manufactured Su-30MK2 fighter jets. Source: AP
India and Vietnam are likely to sign a defence agreement, under which Vietnamese pilots will be trained to operate Russian-built Sukhoi fighters, sources in the Indian Defence Ministry told RIR. The agreement is likely to be signed when Indian President Pranab Mukherjee visits the Southeast Asian country in September.




Vietnam looking to purchase BrahMos cruise missiles

The details are being finalised during the on-going visit of Indian External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj to Vietnam, the sources said. Vietnam had earlier asked India to train its defence personnel in using Russia-built Kilo class submarines along with the Su-30 fighters that the country uses.

By 2015, Vietnam will have a fleet of 36 Russian-manufactured Su-30MK2 fighter jets. The Indian Air Force (IAF) operates a fleet of Su-30MKIs, air superiority fighters jointly developed by Sukhoi and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. Malaysian pilots have also been trained by the IAF. Last year, India agreed to train 500 Vietnamese submariners to operate Kilo submarines that Vietnam will receive in 2016 from Russia. 

India will also consider the sale of the Indo-Russian BrahMos missiles to Vietnam, although a deal is not imminent, the sources added. They said Vietnam is keen to procure these missiles to combat a potential military threat from China. Relations between Hanoi and Beijing have cooled during the last few years because of disputed islands on the South China Sea, which are believed be rich in energy deposits. China claims territorial ownership of the entire sea and its islets and has similar disputes with many of its neighbours.




Read section:
Defence and Security
I*ndian Defence Ministry sources added that while Vietnam is viewed as one of India’s strongest allies in Southeast Asia*, *the China factor would be a key in deciding whether to sell BrahMos missiles*. “We understand their concerns, but then China is not ready to appreciate our concerns about the threat from Pakistan,” a Defence Ministry official told RIR on the condition of anonymity since he was not authorised to talk to the media. The official denied that Vietnam would be used as a bargaining chip with China, while adding that a few South American countries also approached India for the possible sale of BrahMos missiles. 

India to train Vietnamese pilots to fly Sukhoi fighters | Russia & India Report

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## Viet

@NiceGuy

I see double in your last post.
latest signs point to de-escalation and returning to negotiation table.

China, Vietnam commit to negotiating sea disputes after Chinese oil rig sparked tensions | Fox News
Xi eyes mended China-Vietnam ties - Xinhua | English.news.cn

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @NiceGuy
> 
> I see double in your last post.
> latest signs point to de-escalation and returning to negotiation table.
> 
> China, Vietnam commit to negotiating sea disputes after Chinese oil rig sparked tensions | Fox News
> Xi eyes mended China-Vietnam ties - Xinhua | English.news.cn



Need to negotiate to buy time to keep rearming and to prepare for the next oil rig; I hope a certain faction in the Vietnamese government understand that that's the only reason to negotiate.


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> @NiceGuy
> 
> I see double in your last post.
> latest signs point to de-escalation and returning to negotiation table.
> 
> China, Vietnam commit to negotiating sea disputes after Chinese oil rig sparked tensions | Fox News
> Xi eyes mended China-Vietnam ties - Xinhua | English.news.cn


Dont know why can not not see the Edit button on that post , so I will fix it next time.

VN is ready for the worst case if it happen, this time, we wont just use marine police force but real armed forces with serious weapons and well trained soldiers if China rig dare to come back.

Currently, VN economy - VN stock market r quite good now (VN index is abt 633 today ) with a huge investment from foreigner investors who believe VN will be a stable & safe market .


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## World Citizen

NiceGuy said:


> Dont know why can not not see the Edit button on that post , so I will fix it next time.
> 
> VN is ready for the worst case if it happen, this time, we wont just use marine police force but real armed forces with serious weapons and well trained soldiers if China rig dare to come back.
> 
> Currently, VN economy - VN stock market r quite good now (VN index is abt 633 today ) with a huge investment from foreigner investors who believe VN will be a stable & safe market .


Never happens, but i hope the Chinese coming back with the oil rig again, few more time would be good .


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## xesy

World Citizen said:


> Never happens, but i hope the Chinese coming back with the oil rig again, few more time would be good .


Doubt it. It might happen sooner or later, but VN is the most suitable first "stepping stone" for China to prove its power and authority as a super power. But the rig trick won't work so well this time around, when VN is prepared, especially for the "worst case".


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## AViet

[quote=" None of my friend including many guys working for the Govt. plus guys serving in Vn army think VN need US troops. So u have to wait until me and my friend-their families-my family all die in the next war first , then think abt US troops in Vn later

On PDF, Im in minority, but in real life, Im in majority, u can come back to VN and ask people in the North who have son serving in the army or working for the Govt.(dont ask the Catholic or Christian) if they want US troop in VN or not . Currently, Im living in the North, near Ha Noi.[/quote].

I think you are right. US troops in Vietnam will never happen, at least in our life.

A 1000 - 2000 US troops can do nothing against China, in case of war. US will not declare a total war against China just because their 1000 soldiers are killed. But 1000 - 2000 US troops in Vietnam will be a green light for "color revolution", like in Ukraine or Syria or Lybia or Iraq, or any country where the US set their foots in.

I do not blame the US. They are currently the No.1 power and they have to do anything to retain their crown, including anything to compete against China. But they will only use Vietnam as a card.

After the "color revolution", if it ever happens and succeed, although I believe it will have very little chance, the new government can sell big part of Vietnam to China in exchange for money and support, because no new government can exist without the support of China. And not only Hoang Sa, Trương Sa islands, possibly big parts of Cao Bang, Lang Son and Quang Ninh provinces will be ceded to China as well.

At the moment, only the current government have the will and people's support to fight against China's aggression. But some US direct interference, or any third country's, may turn to disaster.

We have lived for thousand years with China, and we have to live for at least next several thousand years, until human find some other planets to live. Our rich history can teach us.

Be careful.

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## NiceGuy

AViet said:


> [
> I think you are right. US troops in Vietnam will never happen, at least in our life.
> 
> A 1000 - 2000 US troops can do nothing against China, in case of war. US will not declare a total war against China just because their 1000 soldiers are killed. But 1000 - 2000 US troops in Vietnam will be a green light for "color revolution", like in Ukraine or Syria or Lybia or Iraq, or any country where the US set their foots in.
> 
> I do not blame the US. They are currently the No.1 power and they have to do anything to retain their crown, including anything to compete against China. But they will only use Vietnam as a card.
> 
> After the "color revolution", if it ever happens and succeed, although I believe it will have very little chance, the new government can sell big part of Vietnam to China in exchange for money and support, because no new government can exist without the support of China. And not only Hoang Sa, Trương Sa islands, possibly big parts of Cao Bang, Lang Son and Quang Ninh provinces will be ceded to China as well.
> 
> At the moment, only the current government have the will and people's support to fight against China's aggression. But some US direct interference, or any third country's, may turn to disaster.
> 
> We have lived for thousand years with China, and we have to live for at least next several thousand years, until human find some other planets to live. Our rich history can teach us.
> 
> Be careful.


I hope I can see VN successfully unify the whole Sub-Mekong region in my life, thats the only way for VN to get bigger and strong enough to counter all threat.

I hope our great comrade Putin can successfully revive the Soviet union, so he can continue support VN to expand our power like in 1979. Many VNese still miss Soviet naval base in Cam Ranh

Soviet bomber in Cam ranh


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## Viet

Anyone has idea what drives vladimir putin in eastern ukraine? He risks a collapse of the economy of russia.

I am afraid he is not much helpful for us if he drives the country closer to china.


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> Anyone has idea what drives vladimir putin in eastern ukraine? He risks a collapse of the economy of russia.
> 
> I am afraid he is not much helpful for us if he drives the country closer to china.


Russia economy wont collapse , they can sell oil to China , they can import food from China-VN. Comrade Putin just simply wait until winter, then EU have to give up and beg for oil-gas.

Putin not only drives the country closer to china but also closer to VN ,too/


> *Russia ' green light ' for investment in Vietnam to Russia *.
> 06/08/2014 10: 46
> 
> (TBTCO)-radio station voice of Russia (5 nights/8) does Russia ranked third in the world in terms of the volume of foreign investment. Only in 2013, Russia has attracted more than 94 billion dollars of foreign direct investment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> General Director of the Vietnam national oil and gas group do van Hau exchanging text has just signed with the President of Gazprom OAO a. b. Miller of Russia. Photo: PVN
> 
> The experts said that in Russia the investment performance may be over 1.5-2 times in comparison with the similar projects in many other countries. Thus, the majority of foreign investors who have negative attitudes toward the economic sanctions of the United States of America and the European Union (EU) against Russia.
> 
> At the same time, the application of the sanctions provided more opportunities for investment from countries not to follow the directive of the United States of America. Including Vietnam.
> 
> Although the volume of Vietnam's investment into the Russian economy is not yet on the high level, but right now, Russia ranked third in a list of 68 largest country attracting investment from Vietnam, the only two neighbors Laos and Cambodia ahead of Russia in this list.
> 
> Counselling Service in Asia and Africa of the economic development Ministry of Russia Pavel Kochkin said: "Vietnam investors are very interested in the Russian market. In mid-2013, the Netherlands has implemented 16 projects with the participation of Vietnam, would have 40 companies with investment capital of Vietnam. All of the businesses that are members the Association of Vietnam business in Russia ".
> 
> The largest investment project with the participation of Vietnam's two joint venture companies in the oil sector.
> 
> First of all have to say about the company "Rusvietpetro" action in the North of the European part of Russia, to date, the company's experts have declared thá́c few million tons of oil were first frozen grounds on the eternal. In the near future, oil extraction volume in this enterprise will compare with that produced by Vietsovpetro, a joint venture company to go top in Vietnam's oil extraction industry.
> 
> One other major investment projects worth 200 million US dollars is the center of culture, Commerce and hotel "Hanoi-Moscow". The construction work was completed, the hotel began to welcome the first customers, the complete job shopping centres are at the final stage.
> 
> Says Kochkin said: "these projects clearly shows that Russia has created the most favorable conditions for the operation of the investor to Vietnam. The success of this project has attracted the attention of businesses to Vietnam to the Russian market. They are particularly interested in such sectors as trade, restaurant, producing clothing, footwear, agricultural products, and even electronic applications ".
> 
> Vietnam investors also want to develop partnerships with the mining and shipping of coal from Russia, to form the cluster of timber and fishing in the Primorsky region of the Russian Federation. According to Vietnam's initiative, the two sides are discussing the development of production technology of rubberized fabric, which uses the Silk of Vietnam.
> 
> In the opinion of the experts in Russia and Vietnam, Vietnam investment volume in Russia and Russian investment into Vietnam will continue increasing./.
> Russia ‘ green light ‘ for investment in Vietnam to Russia « Vietnamese Dong News





> *Exports to Russia increase by 93% - Viet Nam News*
> *vietnam*news.*vn*/.../exports-to-*russia*-increase-by-93.html
> 
> Dịch trang này
> 
> 04-08-2014 - Export turnover to Russia in the first half of this year totaled US$ 797.2 ... Coffee products brought in $63.3 million, an increase of 140.32 per cent. ... airport getsgreen light from PM (Aug, 02); Seminar discusses cocoa sector ...


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Anyone has idea what drives vladimir putin in eastern ukraine? He risks a collapse of the economy of russia.
> 
> I am afraid he is not much helpful for us if he drives the country closer to china.



The situation in Ukraine is a power play between USA and Russia.
USA engineered regime change in Ukraine (first with the color revolution, which was financed by USA and as Victoria Nuland said: "we spent $5 billion to promote change in Ukraine" and recently by actual, factual regime change when the Maidan movement brought the Yanukovich regime down (with the help of the Ukrainian right wing neo nazis and the CIA).

This is all done to serve the geopolitical american strategy of slowly cornering Russia by bringing the ex Soviet states into the EU and NATO even that they had promised Russia in the past that those states would not be brought into NATO, but that promise was broken and Ukraine was the big prize in that scheme; if Ukraine gets taken from the Russian sphere of influence and brought into EU and NATO, then NATO achieves its goal of getting to the Russian border.

Of course Russia will not stay idle while all this happens.

The Maidan revolution was a coup financed and promoted by USA and carried out by the right wing Ukrainians; those right wing Ukrainians see the Russians and pro Russians in the east as sub humans that are in their way and need to be get rid off. The first thing they did after the coup was to denied the use of the Russian language, etc (they had to back track right away once they got negative publicity on that), but their agenda was very clear from the start, a neo nazi agenda financed by USA. The maidan revolution was hijacked by the neo nazis and even after the election, their agenda and the US agenda continue to be carried out by the Poroshenko regime, they alienated the eastern Ukrainians.

Eastern Ukraine does not accept the regime in Kiev, they think different that western Ukrainians and will not accept to be ruled by the right wing neo nazis in Kiev and with the help of Russia, they fight for their rights.

Russia is doing the minimum that they need to do in order to deny the US goal of encircling Russia with Nato states. Putin will not back down, sanctions will not work, Russia is fighting for its essential interests there and will not back down.

If you want to know the truth about Ukraine, go to alternative news sites, the western media only shows the US / EU side of the story. They totally ignored the actions of the right wingers in Ukraine and all their brutality and atrocities in eastern Ukraine, they just repeat the Ukrainian government statements at face value even that its mostly lies.

Here is a blog from a Russian American that says the truth about what's going on in Ukraine, he has his own views and agendas like everybody, but he reports the truth and he has being accurate from the beginning:

The Vineyard of the Saker

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Anyone has idea what drives vladimir putin in eastern ukraine? He risks a collapse of the economy of russia.
> 
> I am afraid he is not much helpful for us if he drives the country closer to china.



Even Putin has tried to annex the entire Ukraine, we will still support him. 

Putin can be both pro-India and pro-Vietnam in the issues between China/India and China/Vietnam, we don't really care.

But as long as he shares a common goal with China when it comes to the US issues, that's all really matter to us.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even Putin has tried to annex the entire Ukraine, we will still support him.
> 
> Putin can be both pro-India and pro-Vietnam in the issues between China/India and China/Vietnam, we don't really care.
> But as long as he shares a common goal with China when it comes to the US issues, that's all really matter to us.


No, Putin is not pro anyone but himself. you see he takes a neutral stance in the disputes between you and others in the region, be Vietnam or Japan or India. he is a realist. he sells weapons and resources to anyone that can pay. and now he wants to destroy Ukraine.



Carlosa said:


> The situation in Ukraine is a power play between USA and Russia.
> USA engineered regime change in Ukraine (first with the color revolution, which was financed by USA and as Victoria Nuland said: "we spent $5 billion to promote change in Ukraine" and recently by actual, factual regime change when the Maidan movement brought the Yanukovich regime down (with the help of the Ukrainian right wing neo nazis and the CIA).
> 
> This is all done to serve the geopolitical american strategy of slowly cornering Russia by bringing the ex Soviet states into the EU and NATO even that they had promised Russia in the past that those states would not be brought into NATO, but that promise was broken and Ukraine was the big prize in that scheme; if Ukraine gets taken from the Russian sphere of influence and brought into EU and NATO, then NATO achieves its goal of getting to the Russian border.
> 
> Of course Russia will not stay idle while all this happens.
> 
> The Maidan revolution was a coup financed and promoted by USA and carried out by the right wing Ukrainians; those right wing Ukrainians see the Russians and pro Russians in the east as sub humans that are in their way and need to be get rid off. The first thing they did after the coup was to denied the use of the Russian language, etc (they had to back track right away once they got negative publicity on that), but their agenda was very clear from the start, a neo nazi agenda financed by USA. The maidan revolution was hijacked by the neo nazis and even after the election, their agenda and the US agenda continue to be carried out by the Poroshenko regime, they alienated the eastern Ukrainians.
> 
> Eastern Ukraine does not accept the regime in Kiev, they think different that western Ukrainians and will not accept to be ruled by the right wing neo nazis in Kiev and with the help of Russia, they fight for their rights.
> 
> Russia is doing the minimum that they need to do in order to deny the US goal of encircling Russia with Nato states. Putin will not back down, sanctions will not work, Russia is fighting for its essential interests there and will not back down.
> 
> If you want to know the truth about Ukraine, go to alternative news sites, the western media only shows the US / EU side of the story. They totally ignored the actions of the right wingers in Ukraine and all their brutality and atrocities in eastern Ukraine, they just repeat the Ukrainian government statements at face value even that its mostly lies.
> 
> Here is a blog from a Russian American that says the truth about what's going on in Ukraine, he has his own views and agendas like everybody, but he reports the truth and he has being accurate from the beginning:
> 
> The Vineyard of the Saker


I am a bit surprised of your response. as Spaniard you are supposed to be on the side of America and NATO?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> No, Putin is not pro anyone but himself. you see he takes a neutral stance in the disputes between you and others in the region, be Vietnam or Japan or India. he is a realist. he sells weapons and resources to anyone that can pay. and now he wants to destroy Ukraine.
> 
> 
> I am a bit surprised of your response. as Spaniard you are supposed to be on the side of America and NATO?



My position is based on what side I considered right, nationality does not matter on that, if Spain is wrong, I'll say is wrong.

I've been following the situation in Ukraine very closely from the beginning and I'm very clear about what's going on there.
The Russians have their own agenda, but between their agenda and the Ukrainian government / western agenda, I support the Russians.

I support USA in the western pacific, other than that, it depends on the particular circumstances of the situation, I definitely don't support what they did in Iraq.

No, the Russians don't want to destroy Ukraine, The Ukrainian government started the military action (at that time it was an unelected government heavily controlled by the right wing). Once Poroshenko was elected, he continued and intensified the military campaign, at one point there was a truce for a few days, the Russians asked to keep it going, he refused, he wanted a military solution, now he is getting one, but not what he expected.

The Russians just want Ukraine to be on their side or neutral, but not to be a NATO member.

Ukraine is being used as a pawn of the geopolitical objectives of the Americans against Russia. The Russians decided to put the foot down with Ukraine, Ukraine in NATO is a red line for Russia.

If you want to understand the Ukrainian conflict (both, the internal conflict and the international conflict), you really need to do a lot of reading from neutral sources and need to read about the Ukrainian right wing and the movement of Stepan Bandera (the historical leader of the right wing) and you'll begin to understand why there is a divide between western and eastern Ukraine. Read about what the right wing Ukrainians did in WW2 against the pro Russians (and polish and Rumanians, etc) and you'll understand more about what's going on there today.

Read about "Right sector" and "Svoboda", those are the main right wing groups in Ukraine (neo nazis in the full sense of the word). They committed a lot of atrocities in East Ukraine, the Ukraine national guard units are stuffed by volunteers, usually the right wing, They killed and terrorize lots of civilians. Just 3 days ago they had to withdraw from a city, but before leaving, they demolished every building in the city and then cried "the Russians destroyed the city". The western media had totally ignored what they've done to the civilian population. Ukraine has done a lot of intentional shelling of residential areas from the beginning, but they always say "Ukraine does not shell or bomb civilian areas" and that's it, it gets taken at face value. There is a big double standard going on in Ukraine.

What most people don't understand is that in addition to everything else, there is an ethnic conflict there, its not just about being pro western or pro Russian, there is an ethnic divide and this conflict brought it into the open.

Ukraine is an artificial state, the western Ukrainians and the east Ukrainians are very different, they want different things and they are not going to be kept united by force.
The western Ukrainians were part of the Austrian / Hungarian empire and the eastern Ukrainians were part of the Russian empire, again, they want different things, the allegiance of the western Ukrainians is with the west and in the east is with Russia, that's their identity and is not going to get reconciled by force, which is what the present Ukrainian government wants to do. Ukraine would be better off splitting into 2 countries.


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## Viet

Carlosa, I got your point.


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## Viet

_SU-30 fighter, Kilo and Yakhont are our best friends._
*
Vietnam could take lessons from Falklands in South China Sea*


Staff Reporter

2014-09-03

12:43 (GMT+8)





A Vietnamese Su-30MK2 fighter. (Internet photo)

With the support of Western allies, Vietnam is capable of inflicting serious damage to the People's Liberation Army in a potential war over the disputed South China Sea, according to Kanwa Defense Review, operated by Canadian military anaylyst Andrei Chang, also known as Pinkov.

Chang cited the example of the Falklands War of 1982 between Britain and Argentina to illustrate his point, stating that the Argentine Air Force successfully sank or damaged six British Royal Navy ships with only five French-built Super Etendard fighter aircraft and 48 obsolete US-built A-4 Skyhawk attackers, though Argentina was ultimately defeated. The magazine stated that five French-built Exocet anti-ship missiles with a range of only 50 kilometers with which the Super Etendards were equipped, played the most important role in sinking and damaging the British ships during the conflict over the British islands in the South Atlantic, claimed by Argentina as the Malvinas.

The second Exocet missile launched from one of the Super Etendard aircraft sank the HMS Sheffield, a British destroyer while the third and fifth missiles fired hit the SS Atlantic Conveyor, a British merchant navy ship requisitioned for the war, and County-class destroyer the HMS Glamorgan. The Argentine Air Force used its greater numbers, at one point deploying 30 A-4 attackers to launch a single attack against the British forces. With a weaker naval combat fleet, the Kanwa Defense Review said that Argentina had conducted a successful guerrilla warfare campaign against the Royal Navy with its limited air power.

The same kinds of tactics could also be used by the People's Air Force of Vietnam in any future conflict against the PLA Navy, according to Chang. Vietnam has a total of 32 Su-30MK2 fighters, introduced from Russia, which are are able to carry Kh31 anti-ship missiles while the Chinese Su-30MKK cannot. If China wants to upgrade its Su-30MKK, it must pay an additional fee to purchase the missile system from Russia.

The article stated that the Vietnamese Su-30MK2s are capable of launching precision attacks against PLA naval bases in Yalong Bay in Hainan, where Type 052D destroyers and Type 094 Jin-class ballistic missile submarines are stationed, without even leaving Vietnamese airspace. The article went on to say that, in addition to the Su-30MK2 and Kh31 missiles, Vietnam only needs between two and three missiles fired from the Bastion coast defense system to sink a Chinese aircraft carrier.

The British experience of deploying five nuclear-powered submarines to the Falklands can provide the Vietnam People's Navy with an important lesson in confronting a Chinese carrier battle group in the South China Sea, the piece said. The Royal Navy was able to prevent the Argentine Navy from leaving its base following the sinking of the General Belgrano by the Royal navy submarine Conqueror. The article said that the People's Navy of Vietnam, with better submarines than China, may be able to do the same thing to China.

The article also stated that China would not enjoy diplomatic support from Western powers, as Britain did in the Falklands campaign.

Vietnam could take lessons from Falklands in South China Sea｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> _SU-30 fighter, Kilo and Yakhont are our best friends._
> *Vietnam could take lessons from Falklands in South China Sea*
> 
> 
> Staff Reporter
> 
> 2014-09-03
> 
> 12:43 (GMT+8)
> With the support of Western allies, Vietnam is capable of inflicting serious damage to the People's Liberation Army in a potential war over the disputed South China Sea, according to Kanwa Defense Review, operated by Canadian military anaylyst Andrei Chang, also known as Pinkov.
> 
> Chang cited the example of the Falklands War of 1982 between Britain and Argentina to illustrate his point, stating that the Argentine Air Force successfully sank or damaged six British Royal Navy ships with only five French-built Super Etendard fighter aircraft and 48 obsolete US-built A-4 Skyhawk attackers, though Argentina was ultimately defeated. The magazine stated that five French-built Exocet anti-ship missiles with a range of only 50 kilometers with which the Super Etendards were equipped, played the most important role in sinking and damaging the British ships during the conflict over the British islands in the South Atlantic, claimed by Argentina as the Malvinas.
> 
> The second Exocet missile launched from one of the Super Etendard aircraft sank the HMS Sheffield, a British destroyer while the third and fifth missiles fired hit the SS Atlantic Conveyor, a British merchant navy ship requisitioned for the war, and County-class destroyer the HMS Glamorgan. The Argentine Air Force used its greater numbers, at one point deploying 30 A-4 attackers to launch a single attack against the British forces. With a weaker naval combat fleet, the Kanwa Defense Review said that Argentina had conducted a successful guerrilla warfare campaign against the Royal Navy with its limited air power.
> 
> The same kinds of tactics could also be used by the People's Air Force of Vietnam in any future conflict against the PLA Navy, according to Chang. Vietnam has a total of 32 Su-30MK2 fighters, introduced from Russia, which are are able to carry Kh31 anti-ship missiles while the Chinese Su-30MKK cannot. If China wants to upgrade its Su-30MKK, it must pay an additional fee to purchase the missile system from Russia.
> 
> The article stated that the Vietnamese Su-30MK2s are capable of launching precision attacks against PLA naval bases in Yalong Bay in Hainan, where Type 052D destroyers and Type 094 Jin-class ballistic missile submarines are stationed, without even leaving Vietnamese airspace. The article went on to say that, in addition to the Su-30MK2 and Kh31 missiles, Vietnam only needs between two and three missiles fired from the Bastion coast defense system to sink a Chinese aircraft carrier.
> 
> The British experience of deploying five nuclear-powered submarines to the Falklands can provide the Vietnam People's Navy with an important lesson in confronting a Chinese carrier battle group in the South China Sea, the piece said. The Royal Navy was able to prevent the Argentine Navy from leaving its base following the sinking of the General Belgrano by the Royal navy submarine Conqueror. The article said that the People's Navy of Vietnam, with better submarines than China, may be able to do the same thing to China.
> 
> The article also stated that China would not enjoy diplomatic support from Western powers, as Britain did in the Falklands campaign.
> 
> Vietnam could take lessons from Falklands in South China Sea｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com



Very correct !!!

_"SU-30 fighter, Kilo and Yakhont are our best friends." Add to that the KH-29, KH-31 and KH-35 and hopefully the Brahmos and Brahmos M later on.

I was in Argentina during the Falklands war, I almost got sent to the islands (I was working for a tv station, technical stuff, they almost sent me there to cover the conflict, luckily I refused). I know that conflict in full detail. The british got lucky, they almost didn't make it. Naval air defenses are much better these days, but anti ship missiles are also much better now and they have the upper hand, that's why I always say that VN should not invest in big ships, but in fighter jets with good missiles and more submarines. The example of the Falklands is still very relevant._

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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> Very correct !!!
> 
> _"SU-30 fighter, Kilo and Yakhont are our best friends." Add to that the KH-29, KH-31 and KH-35 and hopefully the Brahmos and Brahmos M later on.
> 
> I was in Argentina during the Falklands war, I almost got sent to the islands (I was working for a tv station, technical stuff, they almost sent me there to cover the conflict, luckily I refused). I know that conflict in full detail. The british got lucky, they almost didn't make it. Naval air defenses are much better these days, but anti ship missiles are also much better now and they have the upper hand, that's why I always say that VN should not invest in big ships, but in fighter jets with good missiles. The example of the Falklands is still very relevant._


Interesting story , *Vietnam = Argentina, China = Britain, Russia = France ...*

After "Argentia" fighters shot all 5x "Harpoon" anti-ship missiles, the War nearly closed and "French" refused to provide more "Harpoon" coz deals with "British allies" under the table. The history just repeat once again.

To deal with "Argentina" China even not need Navy, they shared North border and DF can reach any corner of VN, China is also one world's biggest missile maker of Top5.


----------



## Lux de Veritas

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even Putin has tried to annex the entire Ukraine, we will still support him.
> 
> Putin can be both pro-India and pro-Vietnam in the issues between China/India and China/Vietnam, we don't really care.
> 
> But as long as he shares a common goal with China when it comes to the US issues, that's all really matter to us.



He can annex inner mongolia like 1945.


----------



## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> Interesting story, Vietnam = Argentina, China = Britain, Russia = France ...
> 
> After "Argentia" fighters shot all 5x "Harpoon" anti-ship missiles, the War nearly closed and "French" refused to provide more "Harpoon" coz deals with "British allies" under the table. The history just repeat once again.
> 
> To deal with "Argentina" China even not need Navy, they shared North border and DF can reach any corner of VN, China is also one world's biggest missile maker of Top5.



No, the war didn't close after the argentinians used the 5 exocet missiles, they kept bombing the british ships with regular bombs and hit a few more ships.

Now VN has a lot more than 5 anti ship missiles (they have a few hundreds), certainly more than enough and I don't think the Russians will cut off the supply anyway, but if they do, then India and Israel can help.


----------



## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Interesting story , *Vietnam = Argentina, China = Britain, Russia = France ...*
> 
> After "Argentia" fighters shot all 5x "Harpoon" anti-ship missiles, the War nearly closed and "French" refused to provide more "Harpoon" coz deals with "British allies" under the table. The history just repeat once again.
> 
> To deal with "Argentina" China even not need Navy, they shared North border and DF can reach any corner of VN, China is also one world's biggest missile maker of Top5.


Good, then its high time for PLA to fire all corrupted military officers who take $ 16,000 from new recruit coz China army can win every one with their mighty missile, no need wasting Tax for soldiers and corrupted military officers any more 

As I remember Chinese here told me that since 1979, China's had many knid of missile that can shoot to Moscow already, but we didnt see a single missile fire from China to VN soil coz VN would use Scud to fire back


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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> No, the war didn't close after the argentinians used the 5 exocet missiles, they kept bombing the british ships with regular bombs and hit a few more ships.
> 
> Now VN has a lot more than 5 anti ship missiles, certainly more than enough and I don't think the Russians will cut off the supply anyway, but if they do, then India and Israel can help.


First i admit the Argentinian Airforce and pilots fight brave in the _Falklands war, _but "Exocet" missiles sank Britain FFG, "bombing the british ships with regular bombs and hit a few more ships" = hit Britain cargo ships & transport ships, and they lost 2/3 "Skyhawk" A-4 fighters.

During this time, Russian need China's supports much more than others. India and Israel also has big trades with China, bigger than with Vietnam.



NiceGuy said:


> Good, then its high time for PLA to fire all corrupted military officers who take $ 16,000 from new recruit coz China army can win every one with their mighty missile, no need wasting Tax for soldiers and corrupted military officers any more
> 
> As I remember Chinese here told me that since 1979, China's had many knid of missile that can shoot to Moscow already, but we didnt see a single missile fire from China to VN soil coz VN would use Scud to fire back


Did u see the Nuke explode ? Whether it means Nuke is only a joke or a lie ?


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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Did u see the Nuke explode ? Whether it means Nuke is only a joke or a lie ?


We can enrich uranium to make nuke ,too, and ur leader Xi is not idiot like u to throw himself and die in nuke war with VN


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## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> First i admit the Argentinian Airforce and pilots fight brave in the _Falklands war, _but "Exocet" missiles sank Britain FFG, "bombing the british ships with regular bombs and hit a few more ships" = hit Britain cargo ships & transport ships, and they lost 2/3 "Skyhawk" A-4 fighters.
> 
> During this time, Russian need China's supports much more than others. India and Israel also has big trades with China, bigger than with Vietnam.



Argentina lost most of their Mirage lll and skyhawk's in air combat against the british Harrier jets for the most part, the rest from naval air defense.

You assume too much, Israel does good military business with Vietnam already, china will not be able to affect that (and not even think about how Israel feels after china hacked into the Iron dome system, Israel is not happy at all with china right now.

India does not care or need about the trade with China, Japan can do all the investment that India needs and they already offered it.



cnleio said:


> First i admit the Argentinian Airforce and pilots fight brave in the _Falklands war, _but "Exocet" missiles sank Britain FFG, "bombing the british ships with regular bombs and hit a few more ships" = hit Britain cargo ships & transport ships, and they lost 2/3 "Skyhawk" A-4 fighters.
> 
> During this time, Russian need China's supports much more than others. India and Israel also has big trades with China, bigger than with Vietnam.
> 
> 
> Did u see the Nuke explode ? Whether it means Nuke is only a joke or a lie ?



China also needs support from Russia in dealing with USA, Its not a one way direction, they need and support each other, I don't think China can coerce Russia into cutting VN off.

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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> We can enrich uranium to make nuke ,too, and ur leader Xi is not idiot like u to throw himself and die in nuke war with VN


I didn't mean to throw nuke, i mean now China is playing the soft way to deal with the problem between China and Vietnam.
The war is bad for Vietnam , but good for China.



Carlosa said:


> Argentina lost most of their Mirage lll and skyhawk's in air combat against the british Harrier jets for the most part, the rest from naval air defense.
> 
> You assume too much, Israel does good military business with Vietnam already, china will not be able to affect that (and not even think about how Israel feels after china hacked into the Iron dome system, Israel is not happy at all with china right now.
> 
> India does not care or need about the trade with China, Japan can do all the investment that India needs and they already offered it.
> 
> China also needs support from Russia in dealing with USA, Its not a one lane direction, they need and support each other, I don't think China can coerce Russia into cutting VN off.


LOL, im sure the Argentinean also believe the French must stand with them and will sell more "Exotet" missiles during _Falklands war... _but buying some billion $ weapons can't solve any problem, much less than hundred billion $ trades between nations and less important than foreign-policy interests.


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## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> The war is bad for Vietnam , but good for China.



Can you explain why the war is good for China?


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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> Can you explain why the war is good for China?


When one side's strength is ten times more than rival side, a hot-war is the fast & efficient way to solve any conflict.
U.S like this way (China maybe), except War China is good at a Battle of Attrition.


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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> When one side's strength is ten times more than rival side, a hot-war is the fast & efficient way to solve any conflict.
> U.S like this way (China maybe), except War China is good at a Battle of Attrition.


No, u r not good at a Battle of Attrition. China collapse many times in history while waiting for the collapse of its enemies


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## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> When one side's strength is ten times more than rival side, a hot-war is the fast & efficient way to solve any conflict.
> U.S like this way (China maybe), except War China is good at a Battle of Attrition.



Its not so simple, china already did tremendous damage to its international standing with the oil rig; do you think that china can just attack another country just like that and everything is ok? There are a lot of indications that USA reached the limit of their patience with china's salami slicing tactics and that from now on they will respond to any new chinese attempts to coerce others, the free ride is most likely over, china is doing a very good job at shooting itself in the foot and uniting everybody against china, which is precisely what USA wants.

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## Viet

_how to end the arms embargo on Vietnam? 

the article reveals the process. basically a majority is necessary in both chambers of Congress: the House of Representatives and Senate, plus the final approval of the US president.

_
*US arms deal with Vietnam a simple process*

TERRY F. BUSS
UPDATED : 08/30/2014 16:59 GMT + 7






_Visiting US senator John McCain talks with local reporters at the American Center in Hanoi on August 8, 2014. _

*Editor's Note: *_Dr. Terry F. Buss is a fellow of the U.S. National Academy of Public Administration. He wrote this article exclusively for Tuoi Tre News._

The United States imposed an embargo on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam in 1984, but now appears to be willing to provide the Vietnamese military with the arms it needs to modernize. The Vietnamese government has for years requested a lifting of the embargo. Visits in August by highly influential US leaders, including Senator John McCain and General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, send a positive signal the US is very likely to provide weapons.

The softening of the US position on arms sales likely resulted from the so-called Pivot to Asia launched by the Obama Administration some years ago. US and Vietnamese are concerned about Chinese incursions in the region. China is laying claim to islands - the Parasels and Spratlys - just off the coast of Vietnam, as well as contesting maritime claims made by Japan and the Philippines. But the US is also interested in expanding trade in the region - the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) - not just in improving security.

Senator McCain while in Vietnam strongly suggested that an arms agreement was possible as early as September 2014. In McCain’s view, the agreement would be phased in based on resolving some human rights issues of concern to the US. These issues seem to be manageable.

*Congress must enact a law*

Given the importance of the arms deal to the US and Vietnam, what is the process that must be followed to approve the deal?

The Congress must enact a new law amending a 1976 law, the “Arms Export Control Act (AECA),” that forbade arms sales to Vietnam and many other countries. President Obama has no authority to authorize an arms deal on his own.

To amend AECA, both houses of Congress, the House of Representatives and Senate, must separately prepare bills that indicate how the 1976 law will be amended to accommodate Vietnam.

Members from the House and Senate then meet in a conference committee to agree on the terms of the amendment. This amendment must receive a majority of the votes before it is sent to President Obama who can then either sign it into law or veto it. The Department of State implements the law and monitors any non-compliance with the terms of the law by the Vietnamese government. Congress can stop arms sales with a joint resolution of both houses if it suspects non-compliance issues.

The process of amending existing laws can take a few days or months depending on politics, competing legislation, and congressional elections (held this November). So, McCain’s prediction of a September deal is entirely possible.

*Potential sticking points*

So where are the possible sticking points? We can assume that since he has sent the highest ranking military officer in the US defense forces, Obama wants to support Vietnam’s request. The sustained efforts of Secretary of State, John Kerry, and Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel in support of the Asian Pivot and Vietnam in particular also suggests that the US government will not be a problem.

The only possible hitch is that Obama is consumed not only with foreign policy crises in the Middle East, Africa and Ukraine, but also with racial tensions and immigration issues in domestic policy, not to mention an upcoming congressional election. Obama has in the past been greatly distracted from Asia, missing meetings of regional leaders and not adequately building coalitions in Congress to pass his legislation, including TPP. Obama needs to put his full backing on the arms deal and make sure Congress goes along.

The House of Representatives likely poses no problem for the arms deal. The House is firmly in control of the Republican Party, meaning that the amendment will easily pass. On the Senate side, the Democrat Party is in control. Senator McCain’s support for the arms deal will carry all Republican votes in the Senate, and because he is so widely respected on foreign affairs and security issues, Democratic Senators are likely to cooperate to pass the bill. With this being an election year, there is some possibility that the Leader of the Senate, Harry Reid, might delay or kill the bill if he believes he can gain political points against Republicans or help Democrats up for election. He stated in the past that he would not allow Obama’s TPP legislation to pass in the Senate.

Opponents of the arms deal will likely raise one of two issues, one human rights and the other confronting China. Human rights issues will be greatly dampened because the law will likely phase in the components of the arms deal. And, the prospect of increased Chinese expansion and dominance in Asia is likely to lessen any of these concerns.

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## Rechoice

cnleio said:


> I didn't mean to throw nuke, i mean now China is playing the soft way to deal with the problem between China and Vietnam.
> The war is bad for Vietnam , but good for China.



let Japanese, USA punish you again like animal in WW II, then don't cry, kid.


----------



## Viet

_nice: John Kerry not only sends warm wishes, but reveals a US university (Fulbright) will be established in the near future in Saigon. a further step towards normalization._
*

U.S. Secretary of State Kerry congratulates Vietnam on National Day*

TUOITRENEWS
UPDATED : 09/01/2014 19:14 GMT + 7







In a press statement released on August 29, the U.S. top diplomat said, “I am delighted to congratulate the people of Vietnam as you celebrate your National Day on September 2.”

He stressed that the relationship between the U.S. and Vietnam has grown in ways many would never have predicted.

“We have moved past war and division. In the years since the embargo was lifted and we achieved normalization and trade, Vietnam has become a modern nation and an important partner for the United States,” Kerry said in the message.

He added that “Vietnam is a country on the move and Vietnam’s moving.”

Kerry said his own journey with Vietnam came full circle when he visited Vietnam last December for his first time as Secretary of State. 

During that trip, he had a meeting with Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Pham Binh Minh, discussing the work ahead as the two countries deepen their comprehensive partnership in all fields, from trade and investment ties to people-to-people exchanges.

“To know a country as a diplomat which I first knew as a combatant in a war is an experience that says so much about the progress we have made,” the U.S. top diplomat said.

Kerry also expressed his pride to have led the efforts as a Senator to create a Fulbright Economics Teaching Program in Ho Chi Minh City.

“I am equally proud that we are now working with the Vietnamese Government to establish a Fulbright University in the near future,” he said in the message.

Vietnam has taken a long journey over these last 19 years, and as Vietnam has grown, so has the partnership between the U.S. and Vietnam, Secretary of State Kerry said.

“It has been moving and rewarding to be a partner to the Vietnamese people in that effort, and I look forward to celebrating the 20th anniversary of diplomatic ties next year,” he added.

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## cnleio

Rechoice said:


> let Japanese, USA punish you again like animal in WW II, then don't cry, kid.


Obviously the Vietnam school didn't teach u some useful knowledge, especially bad History lesson.

Didn't Japanese starve 4million ppl in Vietnam like animals in WWII ? Kid. Without Allied Forces end Japan Empire in WWII, there's no Vietnam nation only Indochina colony of Japan Empire.

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Obviously the Vietnam school didn't teach u some useful knowledge, especially bad History lesson.
> 
> Didn't Japanese starve 4million ppl in Vietnam like animals in WWII ? Kid. Without Allied Forces end Japan Empire in WWII, there's no Vietnam nation only Indochina colony of Japan Empire.


Just being curious. From where do you get the info you stated above? Can you provide the sources?

I am very keen to learn something new.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> When one side's strength is ten times more than rival side, a hot-war is the fast & efficient way to solve any conflict.
> U.S like this way (China maybe), except War China is good at a Battle of Attrition.


Do you love war?

Do you like to have someone pointing a gun on your head and asking what are your last words before the trigger is pulled?

Do you think winning a war is just counting the number of men and weapons?

How would your parent feel if they are informed their son is fallen?

If all answers are yes, and you are excited pls don't hesitate to join the glorious PLA and start the war against Vietnam.

I will meet you at the battlefield.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Do you love war?
> 
> Do you like to have someone pointing a gun on your head and asking what are your last words before the trigger is pulled?
> 
> Do you think winning a war is just counting the number of men and weapons?
> 
> How would your parent feel if they are informed their son is fallen?
> 
> If all answers are yes, and you are excited pls don't hesitate to join the glorious PLA and start the war against Vietnam.
> 
> I will meet you at the battlefield.



I very much doubt that you'll find him at the battlefield, these "warriors" talk about war, but only as long as somebody else does the fighting.

Chinese and dogs have 2 things in common, they both bark a lot and both of them love to attack when they have overwhelming superiority. A pack of dogs attacks a lone animal that can't defend itself, like a sheep, etc, chinese love to pick on the Philippines since they know that they don't have anything to defend themselves with, but when they have to really fight, they turn tail, declare victory and retreat. like they did in 1979. I don't expect China to fight Japan or USA anytime soon, they know they will lose and I don't expect them to attack Vietnam either, that 10 to 1 superiority that they claim wont save them from a real fight and a real fight is the one thing they are not willing to do.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Carlosa said:


> I very much doubt that you'll find him at the battlefield, these "warriors" talk about war, but only as long as somebody else does the fighting.
> 
> Chinese and dogs have 2 things in common, they both bark a lot and both of them love to attack when they have overwhelming superiority.



That's right. We are cowards and weak. Take your islands back that we "stole" in 1974. Currently the world recognizes them as our property - that's right, not even disputed. So take "your" stuff back. Send some boats, send some protesters, anything!


----------



## NiceGuy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That's right. We are cowards and weak. Take your islands back that we "stole" in 1974. Currently *the world recognizes them as our property *- that's right, not even disputed. So take "your" stuff back. Send some boats, send some protesters, anything!


liar. Who recognizes them as China property ?? .pls give the link.


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## FairAndUnbiased

NiceGuy said:


> liar. Who recognizes them as China property ?? .pls give the link.



Other than you, who says they are *not*? The burden of proof is on the accuser who accuses others of theft.


----------



## NiceGuy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Other than you, who says they are *not*? The burden of proof is on the accuser who accuses others of theft.


There so many low IQ China liars here and u r one of them. No one say they r yours, okay ?"


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## FairAndUnbiased

NiceGuy said:


> There so many low IQ China liars here and u r one of them. No one say they r yours, okay ?"



OK then take it back. No one says they aren't, and burden of proof, or action, is on you.


----------



## NiceGuy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> OK then take it back. No one says they aren't, and burden of proof, or action, is on you.


China collapse many times in history, we just simply wait for ur collapse to take all back.

btw: TW is yours and every agree that its urs (while no one say Paracel belong to VN.), come and take it back if u have the guts.


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## FairAndUnbiased

NiceGuy said:


> China collapse many times in history, we just simply wait for ur collapse to take all back.
> 
> btw: TW is yours and every agree that its urs (while no one say Paracel belong to VN.), come and take it back if u have the guts.



But it is already ours.

OK, the average lifespan of a dynasty is 300 years. 230 more years to go!

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## NiceGuy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> But it is already ours.
> 
> OK, the average lifespan of a dynasty is 300 years. 230 more years to go!


Only u think urs when No one think the same.

Okay, we need 1,000 year to gain the independence from u, so, no problem to wait for 230 more years


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> That's right. We are cowards and weak. Take your islands back that we "stole" in 1974. Currently the world recognizes them as our property - that's right, not even disputed. So take "your" stuff back. Send some boats, send some protesters, anything!



Care to mention who in the world recognize them as your property and not even disputed? I think its the other way around.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Other than you, who says they are *not*? The burden of proof is on the accuser who accuses others of theft.



You made the claim, you show the data to back up your claim.

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## Rechoice

cnleio said:


> Obviously the Vietnam school didn't teach u some useful knowledge, especially bad History lesson.
> 
> Didn't Japanese starve 4million ppl in Vietnam like animals in WWII ? Kid. Without Allied Forces end Japan Empire in WWII, there's no Vietnam nation only Indochina colony of Japan Empire.



what you said is applied to education in China now, chinese didn't learnt nothing from your history when chinese people was enslaving by aggressors who were stronger than China.

without intervention of Russia and US in WW II. China is part of Japan Imperial now. China forgot it and invaded in our Islands and occupied it illegally.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Carlosa said:


> Care to mention who in the world recognize them as your property and not even disputed? I think its the other way around.
> 
> 
> 
> You made the claim, you show the data to back up your claim.



Don't need to. The claim is self evident - there are Chinese ships and people on those islands and no one other than Vietnam is telling them to get out. If you were confident in your claim, send some protestors, coast guard, etc. to the islands.


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Don't need to. The claim is self evident - there are Chinese ships and people on those islands and no one other than Vietnam is telling them to get out. If you were confident in your claim, send some protestors, coast guard, etc. to the islands.



I was referring to your claim that everybody in the world recognize them as your property and not as disputed islands, so again, what countries?

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## NiceGuy

*Vietnam builds new headquarters for Cambodia military*
(VOV) - A facility to house the headquarters of the Cambodian Air Defense Command, which was funded by the Vietnamese Ministry of Defense, was put into operation in Phnom Penh on September 5.


Cambodia celebrates Vietnam Culture Week 2014
The two-storey facility has 10 rooms, spanning an area of 300 square metres and built at a cost of more than US$130,000.








Addressing the launch ceremony, General Mop Sarun, Deputy Commander of the Royal Cambodia Army, emphasized the building is testimony to the growing ties between the two countries’ armies.







He also expressed his sincere thanks to Vietnam’s Party, Government and people for helping Cambodia escape the Khmer Rouge genocidal regime and rebuild the country.







Under a bilateral cooperation agreement between the two Defence Ministries, in 2014 the Vietnamese side has committed US$21.6 million in aid to the Royal Cambodia Army to purchase equipment, run training courses, and provide healthcare services. 






Vietnam builds new headquarters for Cambodia military | VOV Online Newspaper

Nice


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## Carlosa

Another good article to read, Its about the Kilo submarines of Vietnam and how Vietnam can use them against China.
Its from Reuters news.

*Vietnam building deterrent against China in disputed seas with submarines*

Vietnam building deterrent against China in disputed seas with submarines - Yahoo News


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another good article to read, Its about the Kilo submarines of Vietnam and how Vietnam can use them against China.
> Its from Reuters news.
> 
> *Vietnam building deterrent against China in disputed seas with submarines*
> 
> Vietnam building deterrent against China in disputed seas with submarines - Yahoo News


hm...Carlosa, is it true as the article suggests there was no sign of any purchases of the Klub land-attack variant?
I find this link below is very useful. some recent news included.

Vietnam’s Russian Restocking: Subs, Ships, Sukhois, and More



NiceGuy said:


> *Vietnam builds new headquarters for Cambodia military*
> (VOV) - A facility to house the headquarters of the Cambodian Air Defense Command, which was funded by the Vietnamese Ministry of Defense, was put into operation in Phnom Penh on September 5.
> 
> 
> Cambodia celebrates Vietnam Culture Week 2014
> The two-storey facility has 10 rooms, spanning an area of 300 square metres and built at a cost of more than US$130,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Addressing the launch ceremony, General Mop Sarun, Deputy Commander of the Royal Cambodia Army, emphasized the building is testimony to the growing ties between the two countries’ armies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He also expressed his sincere thanks to Vietnam’s Party, Government and people for helping Cambodia escape the Khmer Rouge genocidal regime and rebuild the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Under a bilateral cooperation agreement between the two Defence Ministries, in 2014 the Vietnamese side has committed US$21.6 million in aid to the Royal Cambodia Army to purchase equipment, run training courses, and provide healthcare services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam builds new headquarters for Cambodia military | VOV Online Newspaper
> 
> Nice


since when VN army becomes a donator?


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> since when VN army becomes a donator?


Since 1979, bro.


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Since 1979, bro.


I think it is all worth the money to have Cambodia on our side.


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## NiceGuy

VN successfullu produce anti-tank gun SPG-9T2. (upgrade version of SPG-9) .effective range :800, max range: 1,300m.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> hm...Carlosa, is it true as the article suggests there was no sign of any purchases of the Klub land-attack variant?
> I find this link below is very useful. some recent news included.
> Vietnam’s Russian Restocking: Subs, Ships, Sukhois, and More
> ?



Well, I can't say for sure about the land attack Club missiles, SIPRI would be another source to check for that, but anyway, VN can order those missiles later, land attack is more of a secondary mission and maybe they are already bought, but it has not been announced.

Yes, that restocking link is good, I've been following that link for about 3 years now, but sometimes they mention things that are not confirmed, like it says there that there are a total of 6 Gepards deployed and in order, but everywhere else is 4, so I don't quite believe that. It says that Molniys ships carry 6 KH-35 missiles when its actually 16........... so can't trust everything they say.

The thing is, VN is so damn secretive about all this, that you never know anything for sure until you see it.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, I can't say for sure about the land attack Club missiles, SIPRI would be another source to check for that, but anyway, VN can order those missiles later, land attack is more of a secondary mission and maybe they are already bought, but it has not been announced.
> 
> Yes, that restocking link is good, I've been following that link for about 3 years now, but sometimes they mention things that are not confirmed, like it says there that there are a total of 6 Gepards deployed and in order, but everywhere else is 4, so I don't quite believe that. It says that Molniys ships carry 6 KH-35 missiles when its actually 16........... so can't trust everything they say.
> 
> The thing is, VN is so damn secretive about all this, that you never know anything for sure until you see it.


I read from a source (forgotten it) that we have ordered land attack version.
an interesting side aspect is, this sort of cruise missile fired through torpedo tubes can be fitted theoretically with nuclear warheads. staying undetected before a shore, the kilo with klub-s 300km range missiles can pose a serious threat to potential enemy.


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## Viet

thanks to Russia: the naval version of the Pantsir anti-aircraft missile and gun system incidentally installed on the Gepards sent to Vietnam. The range of the Pantsir-M’s SAMs is 20 km. Interesting, our warships have this gun before the russian navy.

Russian Navy to buy marine version of the Pantsir AAMG system | Russia & India Report


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I read from a source (forgotten it) that we have ordered land attack version.
> an interesting side aspect is, this sort of cruise missile fired through torpedo tubes can be fitted theoretically with nuclear warheads. staying undetected before a shore, the kilo with klub-s 300km range missiles can pose a serious threat to potential enemy.



Yes, that's what the Israelis are doing with their subs, they use long range cruse missiles armed with a nuclear warhead that are launched from the torpedo tubes (those subs have 10 torpedo tubes). That's their ultimate nuclear deterrence.

Its not an easy thing to make a nuclear warhead small enough to fit it into a cruise missile, I don't think VN is going to be able to do that anytime soon, but in theory, I guess it could work. Actually, it would be much easier for VN to make a nuclear warhead for Scud missiles.



Viet said:


> thanks to Russia: the naval version of the Pantsir anti-aircraft missile and gun system incidentally installed on the Gepards being sent to Vietnam. The range of the Pantsir-M’s SAMs is 20 km.
> 
> Russian Navy to buy marine version of the Pantsir AAMG system | Russia & India Report



Yes, that's a very nice system, but the next batch of Gepards are coming with the Palma system.

The problem with the Palma is that it uses laser guided missiles (Sosna-R) and in bad weather, fog, etc, the laser doesn't work well. That's a big issue in a marine environment.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> thanks to Russia: the naval version of the Pantsir anti-aircraft missile and gun system incidentally installed on the Gepards sent to Vietnam. The range of the Pantsir-M’s SAMs is 20 km. Interesting, our warships have this gun before the russian navy.
> 
> Russian Navy to buy marine version of the Pantsir AAMG system | Russia & India Report



The article said the ones installed on the Gepard are Palma. Naval Pansir-M won't be in service til 2016.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> The article said the ones installed on the Gepard are Palma. Naval Pansir-M won't be in service til 2016.



When the naval pantsir gets approved for export (eventually, probably in a few years), it would be nice to retrofit it into the Gepards and the Palmas removed from the Gepards could go into lesser quality ships like the Molniya class where one Palma would be superior to the 2 systems AK-630 that they have now. That would be a nice trade. Some of the Molniya class ships in the Russian Navy use the Palma in that same way already.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> The article said the ones installed on the Gepard are *Palma*. Naval Pansir-M won't be in service til 2016.


oh you are right


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> oh you are right





Carlosa said:


> When the naval pantsir gets approved for export (eventually, probably in a few years), it would be nice to retrofit it into the Gepards and the Palmas removed from the Gepards could go into lesser quality ships like the Molniya class where one Palma would be superior to the 2 systems AK-630 that they have now. That would be a nice trade. Some of the Molniya class ships in the Russian Navy use the Palma in that same way already.



Maybe, who knows. 

Btw, is there any reason why the Gepard is missing a helicopter hangar? Pretty sure that model with 2 AK630 was designed to accommodate a hangar. And I doubt a hangar would cost over 1million to install. So why spend over 100mil on a ship and don't spend a little more for a hangar that would give it more ASW capability?

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## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> Btw, is there any reason why the Gepard is missing a helicopter hangar? Pretty sure that model with 2 AK630 was designed to accommodate a hangar. And I doubt a hangar would cost over 1million to install. So why spend over 100mil on a ship and don't spend a little more for a hangar that would give it more ASW capability?


Coz we dont use Gepard for hunting sub, so no need hangar


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Maybe, who knows.
> 
> Btw, is there any reason why the Gepard is missing a helicopter hangar? Pretty sure that model with 2 AK630 was designed to accommodate a hangar. And I doubt a hangar would cost over 1million to install. So why spend over 100mil on a ship and don't spend a little more for a hangar that would give it more ASW capability?



The Gepard does have a hangar. Its the tall triangular section that is at the rear of the 2 AK-630'S, but I wonder if its big enough for the full body of the helicopter.

The helicopter in the Gepard is specifically to hunt submarines.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> The Gepard does have a hangar. Its the tall triangular section that is at the rear of the 2 AK-630'S, but I wonder if its big enough for the full body of the helicopter.
> 
> The helicopter in the Gepard is specifically to hunt submarines.
> 
> View attachment 47914
> 
> 
> View attachment 47915



I had these in mind:










There was another one with the Uran configured like your current Gepard. 

To carry a ASW heli, a hangar would be needed as it provides a proper workspace for the engineers to perform maintenence on the heli and re-arm/resupply. e. g. the lighting, shelter, storage for tools, equipment, etc.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I had these in mind:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was another one with the Uran configured like your current Gepard.
> 
> To carry a ASW heli, a hangar would be needed as it provides a proper workspace for the engineers to perform maintenence on the heli and re-arm/resupply. e. g. the lighting, shelter, storage for tools, equipment, etc.



There are 5 main versions of the Gepard (1 to 5), plus sub versions such as 3.9 (Vietnam), 5.1, 5.3, etc. Some versions have hangars, some not. Version 3 has hangar, the thing is, when I see the Gepard pic with the hello, I just don't see how the full length of the hello can fit there.

The two upcoming Gepards for Vietnam seem to be the version 5.3, also with hangar.

I just don't see why they don't continue the triangular space all the way for extra protected space, I don't see the point of having it open like that. This is intriguing. 

Yes, it makes sense that need to have a full hangar for an ASW hello.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I just don't see why they don't continue the triangular space all the way for extra protected space, I don't see the point of having it open like that. This is intriguing.
> 
> Yes, it makes sense that need to have a full hangar for an ASW hello.



That's what I mean. They can extend it all the way further back, then they can add a roller door, or not. Then, it would be more or less a hangar. It is weird with the semi triangle open design. Never seen those before.

Its like they want to cut corners.

P. s. look at your last picture, it looks like the length from the Uran to the back of the AK630 platform is long enough to accommodate that KA.


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## NiceGuy

Carlosa said:


> There are 5 main versions of the Gepard (1 to 5), plus sub versions such as 3.9 (Vietnam), 5.1, 5.3, etc. Some versions have hangars, some not. Version 3 has hangar, the thing is, when I see the Gepard pic with the hello, I just don't see how the full length of the hello can fit there.
> 
> The two upcoming Gepards for Vietnam seem to be the version 5.3, also with hangar.
> 
> I just don't see why they don't continue the triangular space all the way for extra protected space, I don't see the point of having it open like that. This is intriguing.
> 
> Yes, it makes sense that need to have a full hangar for an ASW hello.


No, we dont intend to use Gepard for hunting sub, so no need hangar on the ship, bro.


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## Carlosa

NiceGuy said:


> No, we dont intend to use Gepard for hunting sub, so no need hangar on the ship, bro.



The Vietnamese Gepards (first batch) are not for ASW (They don't have the torpedo package, etc), but the helicopter that they carry: KA-27 / 28 is a ASW helicopter without any doubt, so I guess they keep a ASW capability just because of the helicopter. How often they plan to use that hello, I don't know.


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## NiceGuy

Carlosa said:


> The Vietnamese Gepards (first batch) are not for ASW (They don't have the torpedo package, etc), but the helicopter that they carry: KA-27 / 28 is a ASW helicopter without any doubt, so I guess they keep a ASW capability just because of the helicopter. How often they plan to use that hello, I don't know.


Maybe VN buy Gepard just for learning how to detect stealth ship, so we can use what we learn to detect China stealth ship, thats all.

Many VNese still dont know what kind of mission is suitable with our Gepard


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## World Citizen

NiceGuy said:


> Maybe VN buy Gepard just for learning how to detect stealth ship, so we can use what we learn to detect China stealth ship, thats all.
> 
> Many VNese still dont know what kind of mission is suitable with our Gepard



Maybe VN just buy ships just to look good, you know the possibility maybe ? maybe they have to buy at least 4 GP to get Tech-Transfer or Maybe VN have to buy all those weapon just to please Russia, from now till 2020 if VN can have at least 10 GP and 20 Moy, 100 Sukhoi 30 mk2 , off course with 6 Subs and few thousands long range missiles then we talking otherwise just stay low and wait .


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## xesy

World Citizen said:


> Maybe VN just buy ships just to look good, you know the possibility maybe ? maybe they have to buy at least 4 GP to get Tech-Transfer or Maybe VN have to buy all those weapon just to please Russia, from now till 2020 if VN can have at least 10 GP and 20 Moy, 100 Sukhoi 30 mk2 , off course with 6 Subs and few thousands long range missiles then we talking otherwise just stay low and wait .


It's like stuff a gun in your pocket to intimidate the robber. If someone points a shotgun to your head and you hold a small pistol to their stomach, there is higher chance that they won't shoot you right away. VN buys weapons to prove they are capable of fighting back, not that VN can win against China. No one can foresee the end of a war.


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## Viet

Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army, was bestowed the rank of *Most Noble Order *of the King of Thailand on September 8.

He is awarded with the order because of his great contribution to the Kingdom of Thailand. Interesting, but I am not too sure what has he done exactly

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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> No, we dont intend to use Gepard for hunting sub, so no need hangar on the ship, bro.


sure, the next 2 Gepards are destined for sub hunting.



> Vietnam to receive two more Gepard frigates in 2017 - IHS Jane's 360
> The two additional vessels, reported to be *anti-submarine warfare *(ASW) variants, are being built under a contract signed in late 2011.
> 
> According to _IHS Jane's Fighting Ships_ , the light frigates' armaments include one 76 mm AK-176, two 30 mm AK-630, and two AO-18KD guns. The ships can embark a Ka-28 or Ka-31 *naval helicopter* on deck.










the superstructures of the Gepards are complete. Zelenodolsk Shipyard has equipped with anti-submarine weapons.
Russia completes first-phase Gepard 3.9 frigate contract - News VietNamNet


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## Viet

Senior Colonel Greg Utz, Health Attaché of the US Embassy in Vietnam, paid a visit to the Military Hospital 175 on September 5th. The US looks for ways to cooperate with VN. the hospital treats patients from Truong Sa (Spratly) island as well


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army, was bestowed the rank of *Most Noble Order *of the King of Thailand on September 8.
> 
> He is awarded with the order because of his great contribution to the Kingdom of Thailand. Interesting, but I am not too sure what has he done exactly


Seem like there r many pro-VN general in Thai army, hope I see the unification of sub-Mekong region become true in my life


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## Nike

4th TT400-TP, number HQ-275. Source: Hongha shipyard

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> 4th TT400-TP, number HQ-275. Source: Hongha shipyard


nice, I was not aware that we continue building such vessels.
do you have info how many pieces more are planned? I search a bit but found no info.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> nice, I was not aware that we continue building such vessels.
> do you have info how many pieces more are planned? I search a bit but found no info.



Vietnam navy intend to build at least 8 to 12 such vessels, i recall

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> 4th TT400-TP, number HQ-275. Source: Hongha shipyard



Nice pics, thank you, I think these are the best pics so far of the TT400-TP ships.


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## Nike

old news, maybe i was reposted

Vietnam signed contract to buy 4 Stan Lander 5612 multi-purpose landing ships on 2/2014. They will be built by Ha Long Shipyard (Source: GiaoDucQP)





Spec:
Quote
Water Displacement: 600 tons
Length o.a. 57.27 m
Beam o.a. 12 m
Depth at sides 3.9 m
Draught 2.7 m
Bollard pull none
Power range 1074 kW
Speed 10.4 kn
Classification Bureau Veritas
Hull material Steel
Superstructure material Steel

On 28/4, Navy had succesfully test-fired anti-ship missile on two new Molniya (HQ 377 and HQ378) and other land-based ASM at Cam Ranh bay.

As scheduled, the second patch (3rd and 4th ships) will be launched in middle of 2014, third batch will be at 12/2014. Base on test result of first two Molnya, navy will consider to build another 4 ships with other configuration options.

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## Carlosa

NiceGuy said:


> Seem like there r many pro-VN general in Thai army, hope I see the unification of sub-Mekong region become true in my life



I've been hearing about this Indochina "unification" thing a few times by now, can you explain what that means in more detail and what countries are involved?



madokafc said:


> Vietnam navy intend to build at least 8 to 12 such vessels, i recall



There are 2 versions of those ships, one for the navy and one for the coast guard, the coast guard already has 6 ships. I think the quantity of 10 to 12 is for both versions, but I'm not sure.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> I've been hearing about this Indochina "unification" thing a few times by now, can you explain what that means in more detail and what countries are involved?
> 
> 
> 
> There are 2 versions of those ships, one for the navy and one for the coast guard, the coast guard already has 6 ships. I think the quantity of 10 to 12 is for both versions, but I'm not sure.



that's DN 2000 design, 6 for Coast guard, 15 for fisheries law enforcement department






as long as i know TT-400 TP series gunboat patrol ships is only for Navy






fisheries law enforcement version of DN-2000 noted they have been equipped with hangar


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> that's DN 2000 design, 6 for Coast guard, 15 for fisheries law enforcement department
> 
> as long as i know TT-400 TP series gunboat patrol ships is only for Navy
> 
> fisheries law enforcement version of DN-2000 noted they have been equipped with hangar



No, there is a simpler version of the TT-400TP for the coast guard with the designation TT-400, they have 6 of those in the coast guard.

Here is a pic:


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## Carlosa

Another good article to read, mostly related to how Vietnam plan to use the Kilo submarines against China:

Vietnam’s China Challenge: Making Asymmetric Deterrence Work | The Diplomat


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> No, there is a simpler version of the TT-400TP for the coast guard with the designation TT-400, they have 6 of those in the coast guard.
> 
> Here is a pic:
> 
> View attachment 48044



no i never heard TT 400TP for civilian department version, the picture you've got was TT200 (and it stand for 200 tonnage unlike TT400 in which reach more than 400 tonnage) used by Vietnam Marine police department, and TT200 itself was in much different design and have no parts of Vietnam Navy effort to build their own warship design, the TT400TP. The gunboat it self was drawing in concept based on "Lan" gunboat from Ukraine and the Z-143 shipyard (Hongha shipyard company) with Navy designers completed the design based on Navy and Vietnam characteristic needs. Only hong ha shipyard got privileged to build TT400TP.


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## World Citizen

madokafc said:


> no i never heard TT 400TP for civilian department version, the picture you've got was TT200 (and it stand for 200 tonnage unlike TT400 in which reach more than 400 tonnage) used by Vietnam Marine police department, and TT200 itself was in much different design and have no parts of Vietnam Navy effort to build their own warship design, the TT400TP. The gunboat it self was drawing in concept based on "Lan" gunboat from Ukraine and the Z-143 shipyard (Hongha shipyard company) with Navy designers completed the design based on Navy and Vietnam characteristic needs. Only hong ha shipyard got privileged to build TT400TP.


We just never knows when Vietnam pop up with some other patrol ships, government secret u know  .


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> no i never heard TT 400TP for civilian department version, the picture you've got was TT200 (and it stand for 200 tonnage unlike TT400 in which reach more than 400 tonnage) used by Vietnam Marine police department, and TT200 itself was in much different design and have no parts of Vietnam Navy effort to build their own warship design, the TT400TP. The gunboat it self was drawing in concept based on "Lan" gunboat from Ukraine and the Z-143 shipyard (Hongha shipyard company) with Navy designers completed the design based on Navy and Vietnam characteristic needs. Only hong ha shipyard got privileged to build TT400TP.



Sorry, but not correct, the pic I showed is indeed TT400, this is what TT200 looks like:





Here is a chart of the vessels of the coast guard, you can see TT400 there:






In the Vietnamese coast guard, the ships with the numbers in the 4000 series are the TT-400 class and the ships with the numbers in the 2000 series are the TT-200 class.

The differences between TT-400TP and TT-400 are mainly in the weapon systems and onboard equipment since a coast guard vessel doesn't require as much as a military vessel.

Here is the link to the Vietnamese coast guard page in Wiki:

Vietnam Coast Guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Carlosa

Here is the link to a very good and long article (with many pics and videos) from the BBC about Chinese building activities in the Johnson Reef area. China's island factory. BBC News

China's Island Factory

Why is Vietnam so quiet about what China is doing there? Those reefs were taken from Vietnam in 1988 after all. Philippines is the one that keeps reporting and complaining about those chinese activities.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Vietnam navy intend to build at least *8 to 12 such vessels*, i recall


hm...how comes that the navy has not made any announcement for a such buildup?
12 gunships are a great number.


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## Viet

_our "Vietnam" expert Carlyle Thayer gives a summary on the current status of Vietnamese Navy. With the Kilo submarines as the major leap in the development._

*Vietnam’s Maritime forces*
by Carlyle Thayer
http://www.iacspsea.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vietnams-Maritime-Forces-July-10-2014.pdf





Besides, the article mentions the acquisition of 2 Yugo class midget submarines from North Korea in 1997, as the first step in developing undersea-warfare capability.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> hm...how comes that the navy has not made any announcement for a such buildup?
> 12 gunships are a great number.



Yes, but have to also consider that those ships are not really important, just patrol boats to patrol littoral areas near the naval bases, etc. They can't do much more than that, they only have 2 guns and Igla anti aircraft infrared missiles, they don't have anti ship missiles. Why they don't have KH-35 anti ship missiles? well, that's another story, I'd like to know the answer to that, that would totally change the role and importance of the ship. If armed with missiles, they could be based on the island and patrol those areas, etc, etc. Those ships are only slightly smaller than the Molniya class, I see no reason why they should not be armed with missiles.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> _our "Vietnam" expert Carlyle Thayer gives a summary on the current status of Vietnamese Navy. With the Kilo submarines as the major leap in the development._
> 
> *Vietnam’s Maritime forces*
> by Carlyle Thayer
> http://www.iacspsea.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Vietnams-Maritime-Forces-July-10-2014.pdf
> Besides, the article mentions the acquisition of 2 Yugo class midget submarines from North Korea in 1997, as the first step in developing undersea-warefrare capability.



Good article! One new piece of information there is that VN plans to order more CASA C-212 marine patrol aircraft, I think that's a very good idea.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Here is the link to a very good and long article (with many pics and videos) from the BBC about Chinese building activities in the Johnson Reef area. China's island factory. BBC News
> 
> China's Island Factory
> 
> Why is Vietnam so quiet about what China is doing there? Those reefs were taken from Vietnam in 1988 after all. Philippines is the one that keeps reporting and complaining about those chinese activities.


those chinese construction activities are protected by a massive presence of warships. there is not much what we can do to stop them. Complaining and protesting are waste of time and money. Surely, Vietnam state media issues complain and warning here and there as we see now against the tourism plan of China for Paracels. but it is just all for show.

no, the more realistic approach is: they build theirs, and we response by building ours.
here is our weather station on Truong Sa island:









































or installing solar cells and wind generators. the plan is to replace the old diesel generators. we generate green energy for the islands.





or increasingly incooperate Spratly islands into the mainland. we discover some trees on the islands are 600 years old.
Cây ở quần đảo Trường Sa lọt vào danh sách Cây Di sản Việt Nam | Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> those chinese construction activities are protected by a massive presence of warships. there is not much what we can do to stop them. Complaining and protesting are waste of time and money. Surely, Vietnam state media issues complain and warning here and there as we see now against the tourism plan of China for Paracels. but it is just all for show.
> 
> no, the more realistic approach is: they build theirs, and we response by building ours.
> here is our weather station on Truong Sa island:



Well, I guess that's the sad reality, short of filing a case at the UNCLOS court, there is not much else that can be done. VN should ramp up the land reclamation in the islands also, it would be good to make them larger, get some more civilian population there, fishing ports, etc, that will improve VN's legal claim to them and establish facts on the ground. 

There is already land reclamation ongoing at West London reef and a port is being built in Sin Cowe island, at least that's something.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, but have to also consider that those ships are not really important, just patrol boats to patrol littoral areas near the naval bases, etc. They can't do much more than that, they only have 2 guns and Igla anti aircraft infrared missiles, they don't have anti ship missiles. Why they don't have KH-35 anti ship missiles? well, that's another story, I'd like to know the answer to that, that would totally change the role and importance of the ship. If armed with missiles, they could be based on the island and patrol those areas, etc, etc. Those ships are only slightly smaller than the Molniya class, I see no reason why they should not be armed with missiles.


well, I think there is not enough room/place on TT400 gunship for antiship missile such as Uran.

this is the gunship (credit to @madokafc):





how will you put the missiles (kh-35 or x-35) and missile guidance radars as seen below on Molynia? the only solution is we enlarge the ship and superstructure. if we do that, the new gunship could carry antiship missiles and store weapons. that will be indeed a big thing for the navy: 12 more missile boats or more, since we can self produce them.


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## Viet

_I now find the article. hm...we haven´t ordered the klub-s land-attack version yet. Perhaps later if necessary._


Asian Defence News: Arrival of 3 Killers Which Equips Kilo Submarine of Vietnamese Navy
*MARCH 30, 2014*



_First and second submarines of Vietnamese Navy : HQ-182 Hanoi and HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh (photo : tuoitre)_

Vietnamese Navy's six Kilo submarines will not be equipped with VA-111 Shkval super torpedo as people have previously speculated . Instead, in 2009, Vietnam has decided to buy two types of Russian anti-submarine torpedoes, anti-ship 53-65 and anti-submarine torpedoes TEST 71.

The information above has been Research Institute Stockholm International Peace (SIPRI) revealed on 17/3.According to SIPRI, the two torpedo 53-65 and TEST 71 will be combined with the type of anti-ship cruise missiles 3M-54 Klub to form a trio of powerful offensive weapon for the diesel-electric submarines of the Vietnamese Navy's Kilo submarines.All three main weapons on this Kilo Vietnam have been ordered since 2009 as part of a deal to buy six Kilo-class submarines, and are expected to be completed in 2016.

Type 53-65 is considered quite modern torpedoes, are able to detect and attack targets at 19 km distances (photo : weaponsystems)

SIPRI's report showed that Vietnam has ordered a total of 50 in anti-ship cruise missiles launched from submarines 3M-54 Klub, 80 anti-ship torpedo 53-65 and 80 anti-ship/anti-submarine TEST-71 torpedo.




_Torpedo TEST-71M-NK with range 20 km will equip for Vietnamese Navy's Kilo (photo : alrosa)_

In addition to the initial prototype, was developed TEST-71 4 variant is more TEST 71M, TEST 71MK, TEST 71ME-NK and TEST 3. Among them, only variations TEST 71ME-NK is capable of versatile attack (both surface ships and submarines), therefore, there is high possibility this is also the variant torpedo TEST 71 Vietnamese Navy subscribe to Kilo.TEST-71ME-NK has 533 mm diameter, 7.93 m long, weight 1.820 kg; warhead weighs 205 kg and has a great advantage is equipped with 2 fuses different: it needs to target (acoustics and magnetic field) and hit explosion. Torpedo operations are controlled by wireless remote, semi-active probes and transducers for sonar target detection range up to 1.5 km.

TEST-71ME-NK propulsion system is equipped with 2 dual propeller, 48km/h cruise speed and increased to 74 km/h in the final stages, 20 km long range attack at a depth of up to 400m.Also 2 torpedo attack on the key, Vietnamese Kilo also will be equipped with cruise missiles, most powerful and now most modern in Russia the 3M-54 Klub. According to the SIPRI Vietnam received 50/80 missiles.




_Two torpedo TEST 71 and 53-65 combined with 3M-54 Klub missiles with range 200 km, constitute the 3 perfect weapon for Vietnamese Kilo (photo : ausairpower)_

3M-54E missiles has 8.22 m long, 0.53 m diameter, weight 2.300 kg, fitted armor piercing warhead weighs 200 kg explosive fragmentation. Rocket can reach cruising speed of Mach 2.9 (nearly 3 times faster the speed of sound), a range of 200 km.3M-54E probe integrated navigation ARGS-54 active radar target detection is of nearly 60 km. That is the way target range of 60 km, the rocket ammo will automatically detect, catch and target key grip without interference from the launch vehicle.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> well, I think there is not enough room/place on TT400 gunship for antiship missile such as Uran.
> 
> this is the gunship (credit to @madokafc):
> 
> how will you put the missiles (kh-35 or x-35) and missile guidance radars as seen below on Molynia? the only solution is we enlarge the ship and superstructure. if we do that, the new gunship could carry antiship missiles and store weapons. that will be indeed a big thing for the navy: 12 more missile boats or more, since we can self produce them.



Its really no problem to add the missiles and the fire control radar, it has already being done.

The TT-400TP is a derivative of the LAN design from Ukraine, which is also very similar to the Svetlyak design (Vietnam also bought that one, they are almost identical).

Both of those designs have a version with missiles, no need to enlarge the ship, it just has to be planned with the missiles. Like I said before, the TT-400TP is almost the same size as the Molniya class (The Molniya is 56 meters, the TT-400TP is 54 meters). The Molniya class has 4 quadruple launchers with 4 KH-35 missiles each, in the TT-400TP you can set up 2 of those launchers with a total of 8 missiles.

Here are the samples of those 2 designs with missiles:






This is the 10411 Svetlyak class missile ship, the missiles go in the place where the TT-400TP has the raft boat. I think this is the best design for the missiles.






This is the LAN design (missile version of the LAN), this is the design that VN bought and used to make the TT-400TP. The pic shows a good view of the radars. Only one radar is needed for fire control of the KH-35 and it can be located where the front Igla launcher is now placed in the TT-400TP. The radar can also be placed on the mast; the radars on the current mast of the TT-400TP. are actually kind of low, they can be moved up, so there is no space issue whatsoever.






As you can see, its no problem to make a version of the TT-400TP with missiles, its just a matter of deciding to do it. Why Vietnam doesn't do it, I have no idea. The TT-400TP is a corvette size ship (light corvette), what's the point these days of making a corvette without missiles?

I think VN can do a lot more than what it does in terms of defense equipment. Sometimes I wonder if the vietnamese military has the complex of "made in Vietnam is not good or is bad quality, better buy imported". As you know, most vietnamese people think like that about made in Vietnam products.

The TT-400TP is cheap and VN can make it very fast. Weapon systems and sensors have to be bought, everything else is self made in Vietnam (I think VN can also start to do the search radar and fire control radars, if nothing else with the help of doing some reverse engineering like the chinese do.) VN could make a large number of those ships, cheaply, fast and that would make a nice difference in the balance of power in the region. From there, the next step is to make enlarged versions as larger corvettes and frigates, why not?

*Note:* If the TT-400TP design gets modified to carry missiles, the ship needs just a little bit of redesign for that, but actually, it would be better to fully redesign the superstructure of the ship in order to have much better stealth features. At present, only the front of the superstructure is designed for stealth, the rest of it has no stealth features at all.

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## Viet

carlosa, you are right. I don´t know, either, why the navy does not equip the gunboats with antiship missiles.

here is an interesting question, is Vietnam navy strong enough?

Naval Admiral Nguyen Van Hien (R, 2nd) answers this crucial question: he states the Vietnamese Navy arranged in close and firm formations at sea, on islands and ashore, is strong enough to address any aggression.


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## Viet

patrol vessels of fishery department





fighter pilots





a better image of US General Dempsey taking a look at a MiG-21 during his recent visit to VN.
now he knows we are poorly equipped and need urgently modern aircraft 





radar station listening the south china sea







Black Flag said:


> I had these in mind:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was another one with the Uran configured like your current Gepard.
> 
> To carry a ASW heli, a hangar would be needed as it provides a proper workspace for the engineers to perform maintenence on the heli and re-arm/resupply. e. g. the lighting, shelter, storage for tools, equipment, etc.


here we are: a heli on a Gepard frigate

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## Carlosa

Interesting article to read. A group of 20 retired military officers has written an open letter calling on the leaders of Vietnam’s ruling Communist Party to ensure that the armed forces safeguard the country’s citizens, citing military and police involvement in cracking down on anti-China protests and evicting villagers in land disputes.

Former Military Officers Say Vietnam Armed Forces Must Protect The People


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> carlosa, you are right. I don´t know, either, why the navy does not equip the gunboats with antiship missiles.
> 
> here is an interesting question, is Vietnam navy strong enough?
> 
> Naval Admiral Nguyen Van Hien (R, 2nd) answers this crucial question: he states the Vietnamese Navy arranged in close and firm formations at sea, on islands and ashore, is strong enough to address any aggression.



I don't see a link to the article, but I had read it before.

Of course not !!!!!!!! The Vietnamese navy is extremely weak at the moment and it will continue to be too weak in the near future considering the present threats. That article is just a political statement to make people feel good.

Right now the surface fleet only has 7 modern ships with modern missiles (4 Molniya class, 2 Gepards and 1 BPS-500), how can that be considered enough? Everything else is outdated.
Even when all the ships on ordered get received, that's still far from enough.

The Kilo purchase is the only real highlight of the procurement program, but the surface fleet is way too weak. Actually, they should start to work on the next batch of 6 subs, a different design this time to complement the Kilos, the subs are the only thing that makes a difference. If there is a conflict with China, the surface fleet has to stay in port, otherwise........... you know.

Don't mean to be pessimistic, but reality is reality. Have to have the assets to back up the tough words.


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## Carlosa

Another good article to read: *Vietnam's Pivot. Foreign Affairs.com*

David Brown | Vietnam's Pivot to the United States | Foreign Affairs | Foreign Affairs


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> I don't see a link to the article, but I had read it before.
> 
> Of course not !!!!!!!! The Vietnamese navy is extremely weak at the moment and it will continue to be too weak in the near future considering the present threats. That article is just a political statement to make people feel good.
> 
> Right now the surface fleet only has 7 modern ships with modern missiles (4 Molniya class, 2 Gepards and 1 BPS-500), how can that be considered enough? Everything else is outdated.
> Even when all the ships on ordered get received, that's still far from enough.
> 
> The Kilo purchase is the only real highlight of the procurement program, but the surface fleet is way too weak. Actually, they should start to work on the next batch of 6 subs, a different design this time to complement the Kilos, the subs are the only thing that makes a difference. If there is a conflict with China, the surface fleet has to stay in port, otherwise........... you know.
> 
> Don't mean to be pessimistic, but reality is reality. Have to have the assets to back up the tough words.



need more OTHT platform to acquire and support more precision attacks toward their intended target


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I don't see a link to the article, but I had read it before.
> 
> Of course not !!!!!!!! The Vietnamese navy is extremely weak at the moment and it will continue to be too weak in the near future considering the present threats. That article is just a political statement to make people feel good.
> 
> Right now the surface fleet only has 7 modern ships with modern missiles (4 Molniya class, 2 Gepards and 1 BPS-500), how can that be considered enough? Everything else is outdated.
> Even when all the ships on ordered get received, that's still far from enough.
> 
> The Kilo purchase is the only real highlight of the procurement program, but the surface fleet is way too weak. Actually, they should start to work on the next batch of 6 subs, a different design this time to complement the Kilos, the subs are the only thing that makes a difference. If there is a conflict with China, the surface fleet has to stay in port, otherwise........... you know.
> 
> Don't mean to be pessimistic, but reality is reality. Have to have the assets to back up the tough words.


here is the link to the aricle:
Vietnam navy able to defeat all marine attacks: Admiral

ha ha ha...you are pessimistic, but perhaps you are right. the Admiral means the combined forces will be able to address the aggression. the navy alone is too weak. he emphases the formations at sea, on islands and ashore.

Sure, I wish we have money for more subs, frigates, destroyers and aircraft. I believe we will get some more toys soon as the economy is growing at a healthy rate, generating money. I read the state budget receives more money than expected, and many foreign companies begin to pay tax as they make good profits and the grace period is over.



madokafc said:


> need more OTHT platform to acquire and support more precision attacks toward their intended target


do you have anything in mind?


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## Viet

Department of Information Technology’s headquarters inaugurated on September 9th. the new building costs VND 115.5 billion ($5.5m). Task: managing and developing information technology and ensuring military and defence information security.

the army appears pouring more money in encryption technology.





Radar Regiment 293 prepares tactical exercise to protect airspace over the capital Hanoi.


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## Viet

here is a better image. Commander of the Royal Thai Armed Forces Patimapragorn presented the order to Senior Lieutenant General Ty: the Knight Grand Cross (first class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand. ceremony is held in Bangkok on September 8.


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## Nike

hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition


yes, some media speculate Vietnam army has showed interest on Orion. but the US must end the arms embargo first.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> need more OTHT platform to acquire and support more precision attacks toward their intended target



Correct, need to have AWACS planes, maritime patrol aircraft, drones, surveillance satellites, etc as well as the right stand off weapons. China has all that and plenty of it, they can easily detect and hit any vietnamese surface vessels with stand off weapons from stand off range, that's why the Vietnamese surface fleet have to stay in port. Only the submarines will be effective.



madokafc said:


> hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition



Most likely Vietnam will get the C-295 AWACS, it will not be easy to get the hawkeye from usa right away.

The modern battlefield requires a whole ecosystem of sensors and weapon systems, Vietnam is making progress, but is not there yet, it takes time and plenty of money.

Indonesia is also in the right track, slowly but steadily.
I feel Indonesia and Vietnam will be the 2 main powers in the region, both are very serious about rearming.



Viet said:


> yes, some media speculate Vietnam army has showed interest on Orion. but the US must end the arms embargo first.



Yes, and I would say that if the embargo doesn't get lifted soon, then better get the C-295 maritime patrol / ASW version. Can't keep waiting for ever for USA.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Correct, need to have AWACS planes, maritime patrol aircraft, drones, surveillance satellites, etc as well as the right stand off weapons. China has all that and plenty of it, *they can easily detect and hit any vietnamese surface vessels with stand off weapons *from stand off range, that's why the Vietnamese surface fleet have to stay in port. Only the submarines will be effective..


if we get the Tomahawk, that will be a new game. John McCain appears to be our friend for new toys. I like the idea of having a fleet of Aegis destroyers with Tomahawk. He wants to save jobs at Raytheon. We can help him a bit.

http://tucson.com/news/local/mccain-promises-continued-support-for-tomahawk-and-a/article_3ee28148-fb38-5bd7-b54e-7fa136e154cb.html


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> here is the link to the aricle:
> Vietnam navy able to defeat all marine attacks: Admiral
> 
> ha ha ha...you are pessimistic, but perhaps you are right. the Admiral means the combined forces will be able to address the aggression. the navy alone is too weak. he emphases the formations at sea, on islands and ashore.
> 
> Sure, I wish we have money for more subs, frigates, destroyers and aircraft. I believe we will get some more toys soon as the economy is growing at a healthy rate, generating money. I read the state budget receives more money than expected, and many foreign companies begin to pay tax as they make good profits and the grace period is over.



Well, it seems to me that he is just talking about the navy including the forces already in the islands and ashore (I guess meaning the coastal defense batteries which are part of the navy, but anyway, the overall force is too weak and it can do best if the conflict is near the vietnamese coastlines, particularly defending against intruding forces or disrupting shipping, but if the vietnamese navy has to go out into the open, they would be easy prey for the chinese. Its easy for them to locate ships. 

Do you remember when the Malaysian airliner disappeared and the chinese satellites were scanning the ocean trying to find debris of the plane? Well, those were surveillance satellites scanning by optical means, there are also satellites scanning the ocean with radar, plus drones (They have a lot of drones), marine patrol aircraft, AWACS and their own surface ships, that's a big ecosystem for surveillance.

In a conflict or in a situation leading to a conflict, you can bet that they will be monitoring the vietnamese naval bases and will track any ship that leaves port. These days is not easy for surface ships to hide, that's why I say that they have to stay in port; only the submarines can navigate undetected. In order to leave port and have a chance to survive, it has to be a powerful fleet with the type of ships that Vietnam doesn't have at the moment.



Viet said:


> if we get the Tomahawk, that will be a new game. John McCain appears to be our friend for new toys.
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ch.jpg/800px-USN_Tactical_Tomahawk_launch.jpg



Yes, need to have long range stand off weapons, long range cruise missiles is one good way to go, particularly the Brahmos since it is supersonic and very difficult to intercept, that's why Vietnam is very interested in it. The Tomahawk is subsonic, its actually an old design in many ways and its easy to intercept.



Viet said:


> if we get the Tomahawk, that will be a new game. John McCain appears to be our friend for new toys. I like the idea of having a fleet of Aegis destroyers with Tomahawk. He wants to save jobs at Raytheon. We can help him a bit.
> 
> http://tucson.com/news/local/mccain-promises-continued-support-for-tomahawk-and-a/article_3ee28148-fb38-5bd7-b54e-7fa136e154cb.html



Sounds good, but VN will need some friends to donate a few billions.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, need to have long range stand off weapons, long range cruise missiles is one good way to go, particularly the Brahmos since it is supersonic and very difficult to intercept, that's why Vietnam is very interested in it. The Tomahawk is subsonic, its actually an old design in many ways and *its easy to intercept.*


Tomahawk has a range of 2,500km. It flies subsonic but it is NOT easy to be detected because of the missile's small radar cross-section and low altitude flight.

Brahmos has shorter range (500km) and flies supersonic. Yes, I think we need both.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Tomahawk has a range of 2,500km. It flies subsonic but it is NOT easy to be detected because of the missile's small radar cross-section and low altitude flight.
> 
> Brahmos has shorter range (500km) and flies supersonic. Yes, I think we need both.



Yes, both would be good because of the range of the Tomahawk, but....... these days, modern ships with good radars will detect a low flying cruise missile like the Tomahawk at a distance that gives enough time to intercept and since it is subsonic, its actually easy to intercept.

To give you some examples, a Sigma ship with the Thales radar Smart-S MK2 will detect a Tomahawk like missile at a distance of 50 km. The ship air defenses (Mica missiles) can intercept it rather easily and if a missile gets through then a good point defense systems like the Goalkeeper or the Palma will finish the job.

If the Tomahawk approaches a Gepard frigate, the Gepard radar will detect the Tomahawk at about 15 km distance, that's much tighter than with the Sigma ship, but still ok because the missile is subsonic. The Palma system will take care of it, first with the Sosma-R missiles and if needed, with the guns.

If a lone ship has to confront a saturation missile attack, well, the ship is toasted no matter what missile. Only an Aegis type of destroyer can deal with saturation attacks and only up to a point.

I've been talking about a Tomahawk attack, now, if the missile is a Brahmos, everything changes, at a speed of mach 2.8, the Gepard will most likely get toasted because it barely has enough time to react. The Sigma has a better chance, but still not easy to intercept, the Brahmos has terminal maneuvravility to evade the ship defenses, etc, its just a very good missile. 

The americans are starting to work on a replacement for the Tomahawk. These days speed is the key.

Also, if we are talking missiles to attack a chinese fleet, then have to remember that they have air defense destroyers Aegis style with the naval equivalent of the S-300 (type 52C / D destroyers), they are able to intercept subsonic missiles rather easily, but the job gets much tougher against supersonic missiles.

To give you another example, the latest british air defense destroyer's radar can detect a golf ball at a distance of 25 km. A golf ball is a lot smaller than a cruise missile and yes, cruise missiles flying low are more difficult to detect than a fighter jet for example, but anyway, present radar technology has made a big difference in the last 10-15 years when it comes to detecting cruise missiles and it keeps getting better.



Viet said:


> Tomahawk has a range of 2,500km. It flies subsonic but it is NOT easy to be detected because of the missile's small radar cross-section and low altitude flight.
> 
> Brahmos has shorter range (500km) and flies supersonic. Yes, I think we need both.



By the way, Russia also has good long range cruise missiles also, the KH-55 and its derivative, the KH-101 (3000 + km range) and India is working on the Nirbhay (1000 km range).

I would say that for Vietnam, for naval and air operations, the Brahmos is the missile that they need and a long range cruise missile like the Tomahawk would be best as a land system to attack targets deep into China where you need almost a 3000 km range if you want to hit Beijing from the Vietnamese border. I don't think it would be easy for Vietnamese ships to get close to China, so its easier and safer to launch those long range cruise missiles from Vietnamese territory.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> if we get the Tomahawk, that will be a new game. John McCain appears to be our friend for new toys. I like the idea of having a fleet of Aegis destroyers with Tomahawk. He wants to save jobs at Raytheon. We can help him a bit.
> 
> http://tucson.com/news/local/mccain-promises-continued-support-for-tomahawk-and-a/article_3ee28148-fb38-5bd7-b54e-7fa136e154cb.html



Each Aegis ship costs more than a billion, you can't afford these expensive toys.


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## Nike

hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Each Aegis ship costs more than a billion, you can't afford these expensive toys.



his like to day dreaming, even though the reality dictates otherwise

Vietnam is urgently need more platform for presence at sea than a single hull with costly prices. One arleigh burke will cost more than two billion US dollar, including all the missile and OTHT platform to accompany or complement them, is almost the same prices Vietnam paid for their Kilos class or with the same money they can bought at least six Sigma Class frigate.

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## tonyget

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Each Aegis ship costs more than a billion, you can't afford these expensive toys.



A billion ? Last time I checked, Burke II cost 1.8 billion


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## Carlosa

tonyget said:


> A billion ? Last time I checked, Burke II cost 1.8 billion



Correct! That's the current price.



madokafc said:


> hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition
> 
> 
> his like to day dreaming, even though the reality dictates otherwise
> 
> Vietnam is urgently need more platform for presence at sea than a single hull with costly prices. One arleigh burke will cost more than two billion US dollar, including all the missile and OTHT platform to accompany or complement them, is almost the same prices Vietnam paid for their Kilos class or with the same money they can bought at least six Sigma Class frigate.



Even an Aegis destroyer will not change things much.
The US Navy already knows that they can't operate close to China's coastline by at least 1000 km and we are talking the US Navy here, with carrier battle groups and all the other support elements, etc, etc.

I'll quote what a Vietnamese naval officer said in the MP thread about how the Vietnamese navy is supposed to operate:

"The Vietnam People's Navy doctrines dictate that the *surface ships should try to avoid direct ship-to-ship engagements*, or at least attack the vulnerable and soft targets (logistic ships or LDP). The *VPN ships would be protected by the Air Defense Force* so *we need highly agile and high speed ships/missile boats for quick hit-and-run attacks of targets of opportunity*. Any investment in fleet air defense ships before 2020-2025 would be a total waste of money."

That's why Vietnam is giving priority to submarines and that's why Vietnam wants the Brahmos really bad. Subs, air power and coastal missile batteries is what Vietnam depends on to defeat Chinese naval forces in the south china sea.

Another strategy that Vietnam also has is to disrupt the shipping traffic to China since that can cause significant economic damage and can probably force others to intervene.

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## Viet

@Carlosa @madokafc
is there any chance to get the tomahawk stealthy, such as with radar-absorbing coatings used on stealth aircraft f-22/f-35?

if the conflict runs out of control and slips into a full scale confrontation, we need long distant weapons to strike possible military targets in china, and the tomahawk is a good means. our scud ballistic missile scud can only strike targets at 300km distance, or 700km (unconfirmed).


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa @madokafc
> is there any chance to get the tomahawk stealthy, such as with radar-absorbing coatings used on stealth aircraft f-22/f-35?
> 
> if the conflict runs out of control and slips into a full scale confrontation, we need long distant weapons to strike possible military targets in china, and the tomahawk is a good means. our scud ballistic missile scud can only strike targets at 300km distance, or 700km (unconfirmed).



The stealth coating can be applied to the body of the missile, but I don't know if it can be applied to the head of the missile since there is a radar seeker in there and the coating might interfere with the emissions of the radar.

And definitely yes, VN needs long range stand off weapons and that pretty much means long range cruise missiles (if they are long range meaning 1000 km or more, they are always subsonic at the moment) and ballistic missiles.

VN is getting the Iskander ballistic missile and the Russians have an extended version of it that goes to 2000 km range, VN needs to get its hands on that one.

I believe all the Scuds B in VN (that's the one that has 300 km range) have been upgraded to the C version that has 500-550 km range.

VN had announce that it has tested ballistic missiles of up to 1500 km range, but further details are not known, but North Korea is known to be providing technical assistance on that program.

By the way, VN already self produces the stealth coating and they get applied to the new ships.


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## ChineseTiger1986

madokafc said:


> hawkeye and orion will be a nice addition
> 
> 
> his like to day dreaming, even though the reality dictates otherwise
> 
> Vietnam is urgently need more platform for presence at sea than a single hull with costly prices. One arleigh burke will cost more than two billion US dollar, including all the missile and OTHT platform to accompany or complement them, is almost the same prices Vietnam paid for their Kilos class or with the same money they can bought at least six Sigma Class frigate.



Even the US donates the ship to Vietnam for free, they still can't maintain or even operate it.

This is the harsh reality, but most Viet members simply can't see it.



tonyget said:


> A billion ? Last time I checked, Burke II cost 1.8 billion



I meant the watered down Aegis from Japan and South Korea, since the US Aegis will definitely cost close to 2 billion.



Viet said:


> @Carlosa @madokafc
> is there any chance to get the tomahawk stealthy, such as with radar-absorbing coatings used on stealth aircraft f-22/f-35?
> 
> if the conflict runs out of control and slips into a full scale confrontation, we need long distant weapons to strike possible military targets in china, and the tomahawk is a good means. our scud ballistic missile scud can only strike targets at 300km distance, or 700km (unconfirmed).



Stop dreaming, the war between China and Vietnam will be Vietnam playing the defensive role, it is absolutely impossible for you to launch a hit on China's soil.

Buying a single weapon is useless, since you don't have the whole ecosystem to confront against China.


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## tonyget

Carlosa said:


> And definitely yes, VN needs long range stand off weapons and that pretty much means long range cruise missiles (if they are long range meaning 1000 km or more, they are always subsonic at the moment) and ballistic missiles.
> 
> VN is getting the Iskander ballistic missile and the Russians have an extended version of it that goes to 2000 km range, VN needs to get its hands on that one.
> 
> I believe all the Scuds B in VN (that's the one that has 300 km range) have been upgraded to the C version that has 500-550 km range.




Iraq lunched Scuds against Israel and Saudi during Gulf war, didn't cause much damage.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even the US donates the ship to Vietnam for free, they still can't maintain or even operate it.
> 
> This is the harsh reality, but most Viet members simply can't see it.
> 
> 
> 
> I meant the watered down Aegis from Japan and South Korea, since the US Aegis will definitely cost close to 2 billion.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop dreaming, the war between China and Vietnam will be Vietnam playing the defensive role, it is absolutely impossible for you to launch a hit on China's soil.
> 
> Buying a single weapon is useless, since you don't have the whole ecosystem to confront against China.



You are mostly right, and I do agree that VN will play defensive for the most part, but actually ballistic missiles is one card that VN can play, particularly if we are talking Iskanders, I don't think China is able to intercept Iskanders.

Yes, most people don't get the big picture that modern warfare depends on a whole, complex, very expensive ecosystem and just a few countries are able to play that game.

To give credit where it belongs, even with limited resources, VN is working towards a limited, but reasonably effective A2 / AD strategy (anti access / area denial) against China, again, limited, but never the less with ok possibilities of exacting a heavy price that China might NOT be willing to pay. Over time VN is creating a decent defensive ecosystem, but anyway, it does take time and money.



tonyget said:


> Iraq lunched Scuds against Israel and Saudi during Gulf war, didn't cause much damage.



Those were old, very inaccurate Scuds, VN Scuds have been upgraded to a 50 meter CEP (with help from North Korea). Iskanders have a 3 to 5 meter CEP.

Ballistic missiles are not easy to intercept, most tests of interceptions are done under not realistic conditions that favor the interception and makes the intercepting system look good, but in real life conditions its estimated that the Aegis / Patriot system can only have a 20% success rate. The Russians are adamant that the Iskander can't be intercepted. Time will reveal more.


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## Viet

a new pic of Turya class vessel, equipped with 4× 533mm torpedo tubes. reportedly we have 5 of this class.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> You are mostly right, and I do agree that VN will play defensive for the most part, but actually ballistic missiles is one card that VN can play, particularly if we are talking Iskanders, *I don't think China is able to intercept Iskanders.*
> 
> Yes, most people don't get the big picture that modern warfare depends on a whole, complex, very expensive ecosystem and just a few countries are able to play that game.
> 
> To give credit where it belongs, even with limited resources, VN is working towards a limited, but reasonably effective A2 / AD strategy (anti access / area denial) against China, again, limited, but never the less with ok possibilities of exacting a heavy price that China might NOT be willing to pay. Over time VN is creating a decent defensive ecosystem, but anyway, it does take time and money.
> 
> 
> 
> Those were old, very inaccurate Scuds, VN Scuds have been upgraded to a 50 meter CEP. Iskanders have a 3 to 5 meter CEP.



Of course we can.

China can even intercept the ICBM, and what make you think that we cannot intercept a much slower SRBM?

Remember, Vietnam has to face China's entire ecosystem, and this is the modern warfare where it heavily depends on the ecosystem. Because of this, the military gap between the major nations and the lesser nations is only getting bigger than before.


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## Viet

the new gunship TT400 class on sea trail. the #4 of this class.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Of course we can.
> 
> China can even intercept the ICBM, and what make you think that we cannot intercept a much slower SRBM?
> 
> Remember, Vietnam has to face China's entire ecosystem, and this is the modern warfare where it heavily depends on the ecosystem. Because of this, the military gap between the major nations and the lesser nations is only getting bigger than before.



Only a real life war environment will show what China can really intercept, tests are not the same.
Ballistic missiles are not easy to intercept, most tests of interceptions are done under not realistic conditions that favor the interception and makes the intercepting system look good, but in real life conditions its estimated that the Aegis / Patriot system can only have a 20% success rate. The Russians are adamant that the Iskander can't be intercepted. Time will reveal more.

China did 2 test of intercepting an ICBM, the first one was successful, but the second one (just a week ago or so) was not.



Carlosa said:


> Only a real life war environment will show what China can really intercept, tests are not the same.
> Ballistic missiles are not easy to intercept, most tests of interceptions are done under not realistic conditions that favor the interception and makes the intercepting system look good, but in real life conditions its estimated that the Aegis / Patriot system can only have a 20% success rate. The Russians are adamant that the Iskander can't be intercepted. Time will reveal more.



I'm very clear about the ecosystem, that's what I keep talking about here.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Only a real life war environment will show what China can really intercept, tests are not the same.
> Ballistic missiles are not easy to intercept, most tests of interceptions are done under not realistic conditions that favor the interception and makes the intercepting system look good, but in real life conditions its estimated that the Aegis / Patriot system can only have a 20% success rate. The Russians are adamant that the Iskander can't be intercepted. Time will reveal more.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm very clear about the ecosystem, that's what I keep talking about here.



Without the ecosystem, you will find a hard time to survive the first round of electromagnetic/systematic confrontation.

China will not let you having the chance to shoot first.


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## Viet

I like it. once the arms ban is lifted, some Chinese "experts" assume Vietnam intends to acquire AH-64, Wasp class warship and A-10 to increase offensive capability. Yeah baby!

DEFENSE STUDIES: Chinese Experts: Vietnam Can Buy Amphibious Assault Ship, A-10 and Apache from US

AH-64 attack helicopter






Wasp class amphibious assault ship






A-10 attack aircraft


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Without the ecosystem, you will find a hard time to survive the first round of electromagnetic/systematic confrontation.
> 
> China will not let you having the chance to shoot first.



I think you forget the political implications of China shooting first, Its not in the interest of China to get others involved, China is already pushing the limits, there are many indications that USA will not be passive next time around.



Viet said:


> I like it. some Chinese "experts" assume Vietnam intends to acquire AH-64, Wasp class warship and A-10 to increase offensive capability.
> 
> DEFENSE STUDIES: Chinese Experts: Vietnam Can Buy Amphibious Assault Ship, A-10 and Apache from US
> 
> AH-64 attack helicopter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wasp class amphibious assault ship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A-10 attack aircraft



I had read that article before, totally nonsense, those are not the weapons that VN needs.
How is that WASP going to survive once it leaves port? Do you realize how expensive it is to operate that ship and how much it would cost to fit the ship with all the planes and helicopters? Not feasible.
The A-10 is for ground support, nothing to do with naval attack.
The last thing that VN needs are Apaches, for what anyway? The Russian MI-28 is a better fit anyway.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> China did 2 test of intercepting an ICBM, the first one was successful, but the second one (just a week ago or so) was not.



Again, you are completely wrong here.

The two tests you mentioned here were the HGV (the second test did not fail, that HK media simply pulled thing out of their a$$), not the midcourse interception.

China had three midcourse interception tests being disclosed, and they were all successful.



Carlosa said:


> I think you forget the political implications of China shooting first, Its not in the interest of China to get others involved, China is already pushing the limits, there are many indications that USA will not be passive next time around.



The US will not fight China just for the behalf of Vietnam. How many times I have to explain that to you guys?

Did USSR fight for Vietnam in 1979? That China was far weaker than today's China, even then no one was willing come to rescue Vietnam.

Vietnam is still a communist country, there is no treaty between her and the US, then stop pretending that the US is already your ally.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Again, you are completely wrong here.
> 
> The two tests you mentioned here were the HGV (the second test did not fail, that HK media simply pulled thing out of their a$$), not the midcourse interception.
> 
> China had three midcourse interception tests being disclosed, and they were all successful.



Well, maybe you are right, but my point anyway is that testing is not the same as real life war conditions and I give a lot of credibility to what Russia claims about the Iskanders. I guess it will take a real war to find out how those things really perform.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Well, maybe you are right, but my point anyway is that testing is not the same as real life war conditions and I give a lot of credibility to what Russia claims about the Iskanders. I guess it will take a real war to find out how those things really perform.



Iskander is not Topol M, so don't think that Russia will sell the invulnerable artifact to you.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Again, you are completely wrong here.
> 
> The two tests you mentioned here were the HGV (the second test did not fail, that HK media simply pulled thing out of their a$$), not the midcourse interception.
> 
> China had three midcourse interception tests being disclosed, and they were all successful.
> 
> 
> 
> The US will not fight China just for the behalf of Vietnam. How many times I have to explain that to you guys?
> 
> Did USSR fight for Vietnam in 1979? That China was far weaker than today's China, even then no one was willing come to rescue Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam is still a communist country, there is no treaty between her and the US, then stop pretending that the US is already your ally.



USA will fight for their interest, not for Vietnam and is not in the interest of USA to continue to stay passive and let China takeover the south china sea, but time will reveal more.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Iskander is not Topol M, so don't think that Russia will sell the invulnerable artifact to you.



Those things we don't know, claims are just cheap talk, you assume too many things and you can probably say the same to me. There is a point beyond which, we just can't say for sure.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> USA will fight for their interest, not for Vietnam and is not in the interest of USA to continue to stay passive and let China takeover the south china sea, but time will reveal more.



But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.

Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?

The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I had read that article before, totally nonsense, those are not the weapons that VN needs.
> How is that WASP going to survive once it leaves port?
> The A-10 is for ground support, nothing to do with naval attack.
> The last thing that VN needs are Apaches, for what anyway? The Russian MI-28 is a better fit anyway.


okay...I see you are a very difficult customer. not much easy to sell toys to you 
how about this one: indigenous development: UAV 02? I don´t know if this is a re-posting.

specs:

- developed by Institute of Technical Engineers Military PK-KQ
- 38kg, two jet engines, wingspan 2.8 m, length 2.5 m, cruise speed of 250- 350 kmh, operating radius 100 km, maximum altitude 8,000 m, flytime 45 minutes, auto-fly-land control system
- UAV can be guided by the control system of Su-30MK2 aircraft

Imagine, in a combat situation, a SU-30 is accompanied by 5 UAV.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.
> 
> Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?
> 
> The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.



You didn't get what I said, USA WILL NOT FIGHT FOR VIETNAM. USA will fight for its own reasons and purely because it fits the needs of USA, not Vietnam. I have a long standing position here that USA will not help Vietnam for the sake of Vietnam. The thing is, if China keeps pushing the limits, USA will have to intervene, again, because of its own interests.



Viet said:


> okay...I see you are a very difficult customer. not much easy to sell toys to you
> how about this one: indigenous development: UAV 02? I don´t know if this is a re-posting.
> 
> specs:
> 
> - developed by Institute of Technical Engineers Military PK-KQ
> - 38kg, two jet engines, wingspan 2.8 m, length 2.5 m, cruise speed of 250- 350 kmh, operating radius 100 km, maximum altitude 8,000 m, flytime 45 minutes, auto-fly control system
> - UAV can be guided by the control system of Su-30MK2 aircraft



No problem with that one, it cost $200.000 a piece and it gets used for target practice by air defense crews.

Ha ha, show me the cash and then I'll buy.



Viet said:


> okay...I see you are a very difficult customer. not much easy to sell toys to you
> how about this one: indigenous development: UAV 02? I don´t know if this is a re-posting.



Viet bro, the money needs to go into more subs, planes, missiles, air defense and all the elements of the defensive ecosystem (satellites, drones, AWACS, marine patrol planes, etc). Anything else is a waste of resources (of course need to give some money to slowly update the ground army equipment, but that's still secondary). Need to also keep building up the surface ships, etc, but not getting big ticket items, again, those areas are needed, but they are of secondary importance, have to keep the eye on the ball and keep the priorities straight, the money is very limited.

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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.
> 
> Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?
> 
> The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.


Open a full investigation for the death of 11 Chinese in Gaven reef in 1990 first, talk abt war with VN later

Who killed 11 Chinese troops in Gaven Reefs in 1990 ?


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But the reward of fighting China just for Vietnam is simply too insignificant.
> 
> Did the US fight Russia for Ukraine?
> 
> The US indeed treats China as the number one enemy, but fighting China just for Vietnam is not their interest.


VN is too insignificant?

dude, the last thing the US wants is China controls the South China Sea. $5 trillion of trade is at stake, not to mention the national security of Japan, Korea, Philippines and Taiwan is at risk and at mercy of China.

but you are free to think what you like. the last thing we care of is your opinion.


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## Nike

to confront China claims in LCS, what Vietnam needed the most is to rehearsal their tactics and scenario about their previous engagement, in which i conclude a better presence capability at sea is a must. Regarding their scarcely funds and resources, Vietnam must be better to allocate, manage and given priorities about what they need. That's why, Vietnam government giving an extra cash budget for their Navy and Maritime enforcement agencies to build more coastal patrol vessel, offshore patrol vessels, and more Corvette and small frigate to accompany them in case they meet the worst scenario. All of this game in LCS is about tit-for tat and catching the mouse, you just need to enforce your presence in and around your claim, intensifies your patrol, and doing some ramming games when they challenge your claims and all of that can't be done with an overtly costly single or two warship but you need more (a lot of in this case) cheaper but sturdy vessels to do that. And if Vietnam has more budget to be allocated, it will be more wiser to enhance their detection, surveillance and electronic warfare capability, it will be more useful when you meet the enemy as powerful as China.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> to confront China claims in LCS, what Vietnam needed the most is to rehearsal their tactics and scenario about their previous engagement, in which i conclude a better presence capability at sea is a must. Regarding their scarcely funds and resources, Vietnam must be better to allocate, manage and given priorities about what they need. That's why, Vietnam government giving an extra cash budget for their Navy and Maritime enforcement agencies to build more coastal patrol vessel, offshore patrol vessels, and more Corvette and small frigate to accompany them in case they meet the worst scenario. All of this game in LCS is about tit-for tat and catching the mouse, you just need to enforce your presence in and around your claim, intensifies your patrol, and doing some ramming games when they challenge your claims and all of that can't be done with an overtly costly single or two warship but you need more (a lot of in this case) cheaper but sturdy vessels to do that. And if Vietnam has more budget to be allocated, it will be more wiser to enhance their detection, surveillance and electronic warfare capability, it will be more useful when you meet the enemy as powerful as China.



Very correct and I would add: to file a claim with the UNCLOS court, but I have a feeling the VN government wont do that.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Viet bro, the money needs to go into more subs, planes, missiles, air defense and all the elements of the defensive ecosystem (satellites, drones, AWACS, marine patrol planes, etc). Anything else is a waste of resources (of course need to give some money to slowly update the ground army equipment, but that's still secondary). Need to also keep building up the surface ships, etc, but not getting big ticket items, again, those areas are needed, but they are of secondary importance, have to keep the eye on the ball and keep the priorities straight, the money is very limited.


I agree we must prioritize. first and foremost, more subs are necessary so we can better play cat and mouse with the chinese.

here is a interesting article quoting the accessment of Vasily Kashin of Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a think tank: Vietnam 6 Kilo are superior than 12 Kilo of China. Besides, our purchase of Kilo-class submarines could have serious political consequences for its relationship with China and other Southeast Asian states, whatever it means.

Vietnam's new Kilo-class submarines to affect China ties｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com



madokafc said:


> to confront China claims in LCS, what Vietnam needed the most is to rehearsal their tactics and scenario about their previous engagement, in which i conclude a better presence capability at sea is a must. Regarding their scarcely funds and resources, Vietnam must be better to allocate, manage and given priorities about what they need. That's why, Vietnam government giving an extra cash budget for their Navy and Maritime enforcement agencies to build more coastal patrol vessel, offshore patrol vessels, and more Corvette and small frigate to accompany them in case they meet the worst scenario.
> 
> All of this game in LCS is about tit-for tat and catching the mouse, you just need to enforce your presence in and around your claim, intensifies your patrol, and doing some ramming games when they challenge your claims and all of that can't be done with an overtly costly single or two warship but you need more (a lot of in this case) cheaper but sturdy vessels to do that. And if Vietnam has more budget to be allocated, it will be more wiser to enhance their detection, surveillance and electronic warfare capability, it will be more useful when you meet the enemy as powerful as China.


yes, you are right. and the most important thing is, due to imbalance of power at sea, we have no choice but return to the classical tactics: ambush, hit and run so basically transfering the guerilla warfare from the jungle to the south china sea.

we were not too bad in the past: we had been very successful in defeating the naval forces of the Han, Mongol, Champa and Siam, some success against the French and America superior naval forces. We are master of guerilla warfare, so there is no reason why we don´t return to the old classical ways.

as for the Coast Guard (good for ramming), we have doubled the fleet to 68 vessels over the past five years, and will add another 32 in the next few years. Plus Japan agreed to donate six and maybe more in the future. America and India have pledged to provide us with vessels, too. So you will see the gap more and more closing to China in terms of the strength of Coast Guard.

Amid China spat, Vietnam to build 32 patrol ships - Yahoo News

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I agree we must prioritize. first and foremost, more subs are necessary so we can better play cat and mouse with the chinese.
> 
> here is a interesting article quoting the accessment of Vasily Kashin of Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a think tank: Vietnam 6 Kilo are superior than 12 Kilo of China. Besides, our purchase of Kilo-class submarines could have serious political consequences for its relationship with China and other Southeast Asian states, whatever it means.
> 
> Vietnam's new Kilo-class submarines to affect China ties｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
> 
> 
> yes, you are right. and the most important thing is, due to imbalance of power at sea, we have no choice but return to the classical tactics: ambush, hit and run so basically transfering the guerilla warfare from the jungle to the south china sea.
> 
> in doing so, we had been very successful in defeating the naval forces of the Han, Mongol, Champa and Siam, some success against the French and America superior naval forces. We are master of guerilla warfare, so there is no reason why we don´t return to the old classical ways.



Vietnam is doing the right steps and in the right direction, slowly but surely. The game will be long (most likely) and is an international dispute with many actors and the way things will go is unpredictable. China can easily push too far and that can result in a new dynamic and a new balance of power in the region. The cautious and risk averse Obama will probably be replaced by Hillary Clinton which is considered a hawk and no friend of China; if that happens, the chinese better stop encroaching or they'll end up in war with USA. The chinese are overconfident and are very likely to overplay their hand and put themselves into a corner.

Also, most countries in the region are steadily rearming and slowly moving towards some sort of military alliance or cooperation against China. The chinese are being very successful in uniting everybody against them and in moving everybody towards Uncle Sam. The party that has the upper hand now might not be the one that has it in the future.

Have to see how things play out, have to stay cool, play the cat and mouse game with a cool head like VN did with the oil rig. The oil rig was a disaster for China in many ways. They showed their true colors and now everybody is very clear about them. VN got a lot of sympathy and support, we only need to see the big change in how USA approached VN as a consequence of the oil rig and all the visits from high US officials right after that. I think the tide is turning against China, but more will be revealed as time goes on. Right now VN needs to play for time.


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## tonyget

Carlosa said:


> You didn't get what I said, USA WILL NOT FIGHT FOR VIETNAM. USA will fight for its own reasons and purely because it fits the needs of USA, not Vietnam. I have a long standing position here that USA will not help Vietnam for the sake of Vietnam. The thing is, if China keeps pushing the limits, USA will have to intervene, again, because of its own interests.




America's interest in SCS is freedom of navigation. As long as China or Vietnam don't gone mad, such as start to attack merchant ships like Iran and Iraq did, the US is unlikely to intervent.




Carlosa said:


> Also, most countries in the region are steadily rearming and slowly moving towards some sort of military alliance or cooperation against China. The chinese are being very successful in uniting everybody against them and in moving everybody towards Uncle Sam.




Not true, China-SE Asia relation in cold war era was much worse than now, bilateral relations have been improved in recent years


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very correct and I would add: to file a claim with the UNCLOS court, but I have a feeling the VN government wont do that.


No longer needed because the oil rig was withdrawn.
the government says the preparation is completed, so we can sue the chinese if they return.

if we sue them now, the chinese could overreact and the consequences could be very ugly.


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## Carlosa

tonyget said:


> America's interest in SCS is freedom of navigation. As long as China or Vietnam don't gone mad, such as start to attack merchant ships like Iran and Iraq did, the US is unlikely to intervent.
> 
> Not true, China-SE Asia relation in cold war era was much worse than now, bilateral relations have been improved in recent years



Not really, freedom of navigation is what they talk about, but their main aim is to stay in control of the area or at least to deny China control of the area.

Ask Malaysia how they feel about china after china's exercise at James Shoal. Ask Indonesia how they feel about China after a few incidents in the last couple of years between Indonesian coast guard vessels and chinese vessels in the Natuna islands area. Singapore is also concerned about the 9 dash claims and China's actions in the area lately and its furthering its military ties with USA. Are Japan and Philippines friendlier with China now that they were a few years ago?

Those are the countries that matter, those are the ones that have issues with China or are concerned about China and they are all going into the arms of Uncle Sam, its very clear, why do you think they are all rearming?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> No longer needed because the oil rig was withdrawn.
> the government says the preparation is completed, so we can sue the chinese if they return.
> 
> if we sue them now, the chinese could overreact and the consequences could be very ugly.



Well, the oil rig is just one episode, the legal claim to the paracels and the islands lost in 1988 and that whole 9 dash line will require Vietnam to have to do something legal sooner or later otherwise as time goes by, it keeps losing the claim and the facts on the ground established by china become the final status quo. Of course we know that the Unclos tribunal will not change the reality on the ground, but at least it makes clear who has the valid claim and will make china lose face. I like what Philippines is doing with UNCLOS and I think USA is waiting for the UNCLOS judgement to become more involved since it would have the legal backing of UNCLOS for their actions. I think that can also apply to Vietnam in some degree.

That being said, I also agree with you that filing the claim after the chinese withdrawal of the oil rig will make things worse for now. I guess will have to wait for the next confrontation and be better prepared for the consequences.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I agree we must prioritize. first and foremost, more subs are necessary so we can better play cat and mouse with the chinese.
> 
> here is a interesting article quoting the accessment of Vasily Kashin of Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a think tank: *Vietnam 6 Kilo are superior than 12 Kilo of China.* Besides, our purchase of Kilo-class submarines could have serious political consequences for its relationship with China and other Southeast Asian states, whatever it mean



It doesn't matter if the Viet Kilo is better than the Chinese Kilo or whatever, since Kilo is not even China's best sub.

China now is starting to equipping many SSNs comparable to Seawolf/Virginia, also many advanced AIP subs.

PS, the modern warfare is all about the systematic confrontation, when you don't have the whole ecosystem, then forget about it.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It doesn't matter if the Viet Kilo is better than the Chinese Kilo or whatever, since Kilo is not even China's best sub.
> 
> China now is starting to equipping many SSNs comparable to Seawolf/Virginia, also many advanced AIP subs.
> 
> PS, the modern warfare is all about the systematic confrontation, when you don't have the whole ecosystem, then forget about it.



I don't think china can match USA on the sub technology of the seawolf / virginia. What are the bases for that claim? What has China developed that can show that level of proficiency? China is depending quite a bit on Russia for sub technology and what the Russians are giving them is limited.

The AIP subs are the Lada class from Russia, they had a lot of problems, remains to be seen if they will workout. The first one of those subs is not even finished, its a bit premature to make those claims.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> I don't think china can match USA on the sub technology of the seawolf / virginia. What are the bases for that claim? What has China developed that can show that level of proficiency? China is depending quite a bit on Russia for sub technology and what the Russians are giving them is limited.



Seawolf/Virginia are not the most recent sub technology for the US, but right now the US doesn't have the fund to build the next gen nuclear sub.

China's Type 093B has already many features close to that of the Seawolf/Virginia, but due its platform limitation, it is still slightly inferior, while the Type 095 will be a whole generation ahead which being on the same level with Seawolf/Virginia.

Again, China doesn't depend Russia on the nuclear sub techonology, China only purchased Romeo and Kilo from Russia in the past, but its nuclear subs are 100% indigenous, Russia will not sell everything to China.


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## tonyget

Carlosa said:


> Not really, freedom of navigation is what they talk about, but their main aim is to stay in control of the area or at least to deny China control of the area.



And what exactly is the underlying meaning of "control of the area" aside from freedom of navigation ?




Carlosa said:


> Ask Malaysia how they feel about china after china's exercise at James Shoal. Ask Indonesia how they feel about China after a few incidents in the last couple of years between Indonesian coast guard vessels and chinese vessels in the Natuna islands area. Singapore is also concerned about the 9 dash claims and China's actions in the area lately and its furthering its military ties with USA. Are Japan and Philippines friendlier with China now that they were a few years ago?
> 
> Those are the countries that matter, those are the ones that have issues with China or are concerned about China and they are all going into the arms of Uncle Sam, its very clear, why do you think they are all rearming?




China has no motive to invade those countries, and they are aware of that


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## Carlosa

tonyget said:


> And what exactly is the underlying meaning of "control of the area" aside from freedom of navigation ?
> 
> China has no motive to invade those countries, and they are aware of that



Geostrategic / military control of the area or the denial of what china claims. China says that they owns the islands and waters within the 9 dash area.

Nobody is talking about invading their mainland, but taking over the waters and islands that are within their EEZ areas. Are you saying that those countries are not concerned about that?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Seawolf/Virginia are not the most recent sub technology for the US, but right now the US doesn't have the fund to build the next gen nuclear sub.
> 
> China's Type 093B has already many features close to that of the Seawolf/Virginia, but due its platform limitation, it is still slightly inferior, while the Type 095 will be a whole generation ahead which being on the same level with Seawolf/Virginia.
> 
> Again, China doesn't depend Russia on the nuclear sub techonology, China only purchased Romeo and Kilo from Russia in the past, but its nuclear subs are 100% indigenous, Russia will not sell everything to China.



Well, those are big claims, that's not easy to validate. China has not shown any sub model, nuclear or diesel that lives up to expectations, at least until recently, actually the opposite would be true about operational subs, so to go from that type of experience to mastering sub technology in the newer or upcoming models, that would be a very big step. I find it difficult to believe. Anything is possible, but I think its unlikely. If I start to see reports from the americans, etc that such chinese sub is very good or that they are worry about such and such sub, then I can start to believe it, but I haven't seen anything like that yet, actually, what I read is that the americans are not worry at all when it comes to chinese subs and they consider them inferior.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Geostrategic / military control of the area or the denial of what china claims. China says that they owns the islands and waters within the 9 dash area.
> 
> Nobody is talking about invading their mainland, but taking over the waters and islands that are within their EEZ areas. Are you saying that those countries are not concerned about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, those are big claims, that's not easy to validate. China has not shown any sub model, nuclear or diesel that lives up to expectations, at least until recently, actually the opposite would be true about operational subs, so to go from that type of experience to mastering sub technology in the newer or upcoming models, that would be a very big step. I find it difficult to believe. Anything is possible, but I think its unlikely. If I start to see reports from the americans, etc that such chinese sub is very good or that they are worry about such and such sub, then I can start to believe it, but I haven't seen anything like that yet, actually, what I read is that the americans are not worry at all when it comes to chinese subs and they consider them inferior.



Of course, the US will consider anything from China as "inferior", including our economic model.

Yet we are the one who still grows strongly in both manufacturing and technology, while the US is stagnated, they have to bloat up their GDP data with those irrelevant figures in order to keep the distance with China's GDP.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Of course, the US will consider anything from China as "inferior", including our economic model.
> 
> Yet we are the one who still grows strongly in both manufacturing and technology, while the US is stagnated, they have to bloat up their GDP data with those irrelevant figures in order to keep the distance with China's GDP.



No doubt that china has accomplished a lot, but......... I lived in USA for 25 years and I've been going to china very often for the last 12 years. I see plenty of things wrong with that economic model and how things are done in china and many chinese people that I speak with also tell me that. If I have to choose where to live, I prefer the stagnated USA and many rich chinese rush to move to USA as soon as they can, I would say they vote with their feet. As far as I'm concerned and considering that I have plenty of experience with both, I don't like either one much (even that I have a preference if I have to choose one), but that's just my take. Canada, on the other hand, I like it a lot better than USA.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> No doubt that china has accomplished a lot, but......... I lived in USA for 25 years and I've been going to china very often for the last 12 years. I see plenty of things wrong with that economic model and how things are done in china and many chinese people that I speak with also tell me that. If I have to choose where to live, I prefer the stagnated USA and many rich chinese rush to move to USA as soon as they can, I would say they vote with their feet. As far as I'm concerned and considering that I have plenty of experience with both, I don't like either one much (even that I have a preference if I have to choose one), but that's just my take. Canada, on the other hand, I like it a lot better than USA.



China's economy is still mainly based on state owned economy, those rich tycoons can go anywhere they want, because if they don't, soon many of these crooks will get arrested.

But many of them are also not naive, because they know if they move to an uncharted territory like the US without a second thought, their wealth will also get stripped away by the US regime.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's economy is still mainly based on state owned economy, those rich tycoons can go anywhere they want, because if they don't, soon many of these crooks will get arrested.
> 
> But many of them are also not naive, because they know if they move to an uncharted territory like the US without a second thought, their wealth will also get stripped away by the US regime.



I know what type of people you are referring to and that's true, but actually most wealthy chinese that moved to USA are unrelated to corrupted government officials or their families, they are usually business people that had the chance to travel to USA for business or study and then decided to move there or to move their families there. I met quite a few of them myself.


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## sincity

*
Have to see how things play out, have to stay cool, play the cat and mouse game with a cool head like VN did with the oil rig. The oil rig was a disaster for China in many ways. They showed their true colors and now everybody is very clear about them. VN got a lot of sympathy and support, we only need to see the big change in how USA approached VN as a consequence of the oil rig and all the visits from high US officials right after that. I think the tide is turning against China, but more will be revealed as time goes on. Right now VN needs to play for time.[/quote]
*
The placement of China oil platform in SCS in no way damage China image in the world, the whole world know China intention of claiming the whole SCS, any nation without territorial dispute with China wouldn't concern themselves with SCS issue and condemn China action. US pivot to Asia couple yrs before China moved the oil rig, US intention to preserve US power in Asia and to assert US military influence in the region disregard China action in SCS. US will always used SCS issue to bolster Japan, Philippine alliance with completely reliance on US military backing. No nation willfully waste lives, money to defend other nation interest without converging US interest in the situation. US want to used the territorial dispute in SCS then turned strong anti China sentiment of the Vietnamese population into a forceful demand for democratic change and overthrow the Vietnam communist government, Vietnam government wary of protest can lead to collapse of the communist government, Ukraine peaceful protest and revolution turn into never ending crisis. US will never fight a territorial war for communist Vietnam.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sincity said:


> The placement of China oil platform in SCS in no way damage China image in the world, the whole world know China intention of claiming the whole SCS, any nation without territorial dispute with China wouldn't concern themselves with SCS issue and condemn China action. US pivot to Asia couple yrs before China moved the oil rig, US intention to preserve US power in Asia and to assert US military influence in the region disregard China action in SCS. US will always used SCS issue to bolster Japan, Philippine alliance with completely reliance on US military backing. No nation willfully waste lives, money to defend other nation interest without converging US interest in the situation. US want to used the territorial dispute in SCS then turned strong anti China sentiment of the Vietnamese population into a forceful demand for democratic change and overthrow the Vietnam communist government, Vietnam government wary of protest can lead to collapse of the communist government, Ukraine peaceful protest and revolution turn into never ending crisis. US will never fight a territorial war for communist Vietnam.



In order to get the full support from the US, there is a price for Vietnam to pay, which is the color revolution.

The US still remembers the Vietnam war vividly. And Vietnam not only has to overthrow VCP, but also to install a US puppet regime as its government.

Many Viet nationalists hate China, but they don't want to become the US puppets either, so there will be the eternal unrest for Vietnam.

Vietnam now wants to reconcile the relationship with China, not because they like China, but simply they don't wanna get haunted by the US sponsored color revolution.


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## sincity

*


ChineseTiger1986 said:



In order to get the full support from the US, there is a price for Vietnam to pay, which is the color revolution.

The US still remembers the Vietnam war vividly. Vietnam not only has to overthrow VCP, but also to install a US puppet regime as the government.

Many Viet nationalists hate China, but they don't want to become the US puppets either, so there will be the eternal unrest for Vietnam.

Vietnam now wants to reconcile the relationship with China, not because they like China, but simply they don't wanna get haunted by the US sponsored color revolution.[/quote

Click to expand...

*


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> ]
> 
> Communist Vietnam fought a bitter war against US led S.V military which caused dead to millions Vietnamese in the civil war. Hard for Vietnam government give up their power and install a democratic elect government. In a way of communist Vietnam will be defeated without US fire a single shot or 1
> American live. Pragmatic for Vietnam government to used US power to balance China action.


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## Viet

sincity said:


> The placement of China oil platform in SCS in no way damage China image in the world, the whole world know China intention of claiming the whole SCS, any nation without territorial dispute with China wouldn't concern themselves with SCS issue and condemn China action. US pivot to Asia couple yrs before China moved the oil rig, US intention to preserve US power in Asia and to assert US military influence in the region disregard China action in SCS. US will always used SCS issue to bolster Japan, Philippine alliance with completely reliance on US military backing. No nation willfully waste lives, money to defend other nation interest without converging US interest in the situation. US want to used the territorial dispute in SCS then turned strong anti China sentiment of the Vietnamese population into a forceful demand for democratic change and overthrow the Vietnam communist government, Vietnam government wary of protest can lead to collapse of the communist government, Ukraine peaceful protest and revolution turn into never ending crisis. US will never fight a territorial war for communist Vietnam.


just keep your belief. Everything you say sounds logical, china is doing a fantastic job. Well done.


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## Viet

what is it?






some self produced ammunitions displayed in a fabric





probably granates for tanks





s-75 missile (surface-to-air)





field guns (looks soviet style)





a armored vehicle from the army





armed police


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> what is it?



Its a catamaran civilian boat, its unrelated to military use. The officers there are related to other military construction going on there and they are just taking a look at the boat, but nothing else.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its a catamaran civilian boat, its unrelated to military use. The officers there are related to other military construction going on there and they are just taking a look at the boat, but nothing else.


Oh thanks. You have sharp eyes


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## Viet

Land Platforms
*Vietnam extends credit for Cambodian modernisation*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
09 September 2014


Vietnam has provided neighbouring Cambodia with USD22 million in credit to support the military modernisation efforts of the Royal Cambodian Armed Forces (RCAF).

Vietnam's Ministry of Information and Communication said on its Bao Dat Viet news service on 6 September that funding had been made available to the RCAF to buy unspecified defence equipment, and enhance military training and healthcare.

Some of the funding was also allocated to the construction of an air defence command headquarters for the RCAF in Phnom Penh and the development of RCAF topography capabilities.

Details about the equipment to be transferred to the RCAF were not disclosed, although it is possible, given the development of air defence capabilities, that the arrangement includes Cambodia's purchase of Vietnamese anti-aircraft weaponry, related spare parts, or ammunition.


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## Viet

*





Sunday 14 September 2014
India plans to supply Vietnam BrahMos missiles






Ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s maiden visit to India, New Delhi on Friday sent out a strong message about its desire to play a greater role in regional security in South-East Asia, making public its plan to supply BrahMos cruise missiles to Vietnam.*

With President Pranab Mukherjee set to leave for a four-day visit to Vietnam on Sunday, New Delhi confirmed that it was in talks with Hanoi for supply of BrahMos missiles to the South East Asian country, which was locked in a territorial dispute with China.

Briefing mediapersons about Mukherjee’s forthcoming visit to Vietnam, Anil Wadhwa, the secretary (east) of the Ministry of External Affairs, said that defence officials of New Delhi and Hanoi were discussing a proposal for supply of BrahMos missiles to Vietnam.

Wadhwa declined to provide details about the progress in India’s talks with Vietnam. Sources, however, told Deccan Herald that the talks were in an advanced stage and Moscow had already informally given its nod to New Delhi for supply of the missiles to the South-East Asian country.

New Delhi had to obtain Moscow’s nod as the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles are produced by a joint venture of Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia’s NPO Mashinostroeyenia.

Several countries like Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia and Malaysia evinced interest in importing the BrahMos. Sources, however, said that Vietnam could be the first country to have a deal with BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited for import of the missiles.

Moscow and Hanoi have also been discussing about a proposal for a joint programme for developing a missile system in Vietnam based on the Kh-35 Uran of Russia.

The negotiations, however, could not make much headway, although Hanoi has of late been keen to strengthen its arsenal to address its immediate security concerns, arising out of its escalating tension with Beijing over conflicting territorial claims in the waters of South China Sea. During the visit of general secretary of Vietnam Communist Party, Nguyen Phu Trong, to India in November 2013, Hanoi proposed negotiations with New Delhi for supply of the BrahMos missiles.

New Delhi also offered Hanoi a credit line worth about $100 million to procure military hardware from India. The discussion on the modalities for implementation of the credit line is expected to get a fillip during Mukherjee’s visit to Hanoi.

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## The Headache

Incomplete info. Prithvi and LCA Tejas are also on the line.

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## Viet

I wonder if our india friend exports brahmos air launched version?

We want to equip the su-30 with the missiles. The time will come in one day for hunting big fishes in the south china sea

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## The Headache

Viet said:


> I wonder if our india friend exports brahmos air launched version?
> 
> We want to equip the su-30 with the missiles. The time will come in one day for hunting big fishes in the south china sea


Good luck. Even astra can help you out in hunting some vultures in the sky. Save brahmos for the rest.


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## SrNair

Viet said:


> I wonder if our india friend exports brahmos air launched version?
> 
> We want to equip the su-30 with the missiles. The time will come in one day for hunting big fishes in the south china sea



There is Good Chance for that.Because when we complete its development trials it will be one and only unique system in this world.No other nations cant offer such a formidable weapon.

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## Viet

JonAsad said:


> whats with the usage of term"*supply*" in the title?- are you supplying it to them for free?- that be so anti baniya philosophy-
> 
> Just like the dance- the BrahMos is also a rip off-
> and judging by the outcome- much much worse- -


we want a new long range supersonic missiles for our su-30. currently our air-to-surface missile Kh-31A has a range of 50km.
supply is not necessarily free, but we only need some dozens, enough to sink the south sea fleet.

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## Friei Indien

great, highly maneuverable and world's fastest cruise missile, if fired in anger will tear enemy vessels apart.

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## Ragnar

JonAsad said:


> whats with the usage of term"supply" in the title?- are you supplying it to them for free?- that be so anti baniya philosophy-
> 
> 
> 
> Just like the dance- the BrahMos is also a rip off-
> and judging by the outcome- much much worse- -



Supply vs. Demand i.e. High School economics.. As long there are no cars fuelled by water, we will do fine..


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## JonAsad

Ragnar said:


> Supply vs. Demand i.e. High School economics.. As long there are no cars fuelled by water, we will do fine..



in case you missed your high school or still waiting to qualify- Supply and Demand terms applies when there is already a formal agreement- a contract- Signed Document- Legal Value- 



Viet said:


> we want a new long range supersonic missiles for our su-30. currently our air-to-surface missile Kh-31A has a range of 50km.
> supply is not necessarily free, but we only need some dozens, enough to *sink the south sea fleet.*



that must be Chinese fleet you are talking about-
Well make no mistake even the country selling you this missile cannot do that- 
you dream high- aim up- cant blame you- you fought against the amrikans with the same resolve- its a pity you became what your brethren fought against- amrikans and its ally's proxy against china-

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## Ragnar

JonAsad said:


> in case you missed your high school or still waiting to qualify- Supply and Demand terms applies when there is already a formal agreement- a contract- Signed Document- Legal Value-
> 
> 
> 
> that must be Chinese fleet you are talking about-
> Well make no mistake even the country selling you this missile cannot do that-
> you dream high- aim up- cant blame you- you fought against the amrikans with the same resolve- its a pity you became what your brethren fought against- amrikans and its ally's proxy against china-



No you high school dropout.. there is an tender floated and invitation of expression of interest, negotiation, and then execution of the contract i.e. signed document. There is a demand from Vietnam, and we are willing to supply thats all..


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## Viet

JonAsad said:


> that must be *Chinese fleet* you are talking about-
> Well make no mistake even the country selling you this missile cannot do that-
> you dream high- aim up- cant blame you- you fought against the amrikans with the same resolve- its a pity you became what your brethren fought against- amrikans and its ally's proxy against china-


yes, it is all about having deterrence, my friend.
chinese surface fleet should think twice before they start something stupid in the south china sea.


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## Friei Indien

JonAsad said:


> that must be Chinese fleet you are talking about-
> Well make no mistake even the country selling you this missile cannot do that-
> you dream high- aim up- cant blame you- you fought against the amrikans with the same resolve- its a pity you became what your brethren fought against- amrikans and its ally's proxy against china-



before talking this much crap u should remember how 3 of your countrys naval ships were sunk in the opening day of assault by IN, and the submarine which u people regarded as the pride of PN. u had American built vessels at that time but think about the chinese, all that they have is 'made in china' maal


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## dray

@Viet We have been a long term friend of Vietnam, check these to links. 

Ho Chi Minh….Amar nam, Tomar nam, Vietnam,Vietnam – This & That..

SGGP English Edition- Indian friend recalls immemorial historic moments

Can you please tag other Vietnamese for this post? @Viet @NiceGuy

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## Zarvan

Viet said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunday 14 September 2014
> India plans to supply Vietnam BrahMos missiles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s maiden visit to India, New Delhi on Friday sent out a strong message about its desire to play a greater role in regional security in South-East Asia, making public its plan to supply BrahMos cruise missiles to Vietnam.*
> 
> With President Pranab Mukherjee set to leave for a four-day visit to Vietnam on Sunday, New Delhi confirmed that it was in talks with Hanoi for supply of BrahMos missiles to the South East Asian country, which was locked in a territorial dispute with China.
> 
> Briefing mediapersons about Mukherjee’s forthcoming visit to Vietnam, Anil Wadhwa, the secretary (east) of the Ministry of External Affairs, said that defence officials of New Delhi and Hanoi were discussing a proposal for supply of BrahMos missiles to Vietnam.
> 
> Wadhwa declined to provide details about the progress in India’s talks with Vietnam. Sources, however, told Deccan Herald that the talks were in an advanced stage and Moscow had already informally given its nod to New Delhi for supply of the missiles to the South-East Asian country.
> 
> New Delhi had to obtain Moscow’s nod as the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles are produced by a joint venture of Defence Research and Development Organisation and Russia’s NPO Mashinostroeyenia.
> 
> Several countries like Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia and Malaysia evinced interest in importing the BrahMos. Sources, however, said that Vietnam could be the first country to have a deal with BrahMos Aerospace Private Limited for import of the missiles.
> 
> Moscow and Hanoi have also been discussing about a proposal for a joint programme for developing a missile system in Vietnam based on the Kh-35 Uran of Russia.
> 
> The negotiations, however, could not make much headway, although Hanoi has of late been keen to strengthen its arsenal to address its immediate security concerns, arising out of its escalating tension with Beijing over conflicting territorial claims in the waters of South China Sea. During the visit of general secretary of Vietnam Communist Party, Nguyen Phu Trong, to India in November 2013, Hanoi proposed negotiations with New Delhi for supply of the BrahMos missiles.
> 
> New Delhi also offered Hanoi a credit line worth about $100 million to procure military hardware from India. The discussion on the modalities for implementation of the credit line is expected to get a fillip during Mukherjee’s visit to Hanoi.


Well China would love to provide us with long range cruise missiles and also many other countries India is messing with wrong country

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## Zarvan

Friei Indien said:


> before talking this much crap u should remember how 3 of your countrys naval ships were sunk in the opening day of assault by IN, and the submarine which u people regarded as the pride of PN. u had American built vessels at that time but think about the chinese, all that they have is 'made in china' maal


That made in China is far more advanced than what you have and its you who lost the Frigate by our hands

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> yes, it is all about having deterrence, my friend.
> chinese surface fleet should think twice before they start something stupid in the south china sea.



It is not going to work as you don't have your own systematic ecosystem, just look what happened to Saddam Hussein's army in 1990. They were more mechanized than yours.

If the US army still fought like the 1970s, then it would take a considerable amount of casualty even they won the first Gulf War.

However, the modern warfare has evolved by the end of the Cold War, the US army was the first who started the ground breaking systematic integration warfare.

China has also heavily focused on the systematic modern warfare since the 1990s, while you guys still live in the past warfare by believing to deliver a lethal blow to China with only one or two individual weapons.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I wonder if our india friend exports brahmos air launched version?
> 
> We want to equip the su-30 with the missiles. The time will come in one day for hunting big fishes in the south china sea



The Brahmos is too heavy for the SU-30, its necessary to do structural modifications in the aircraft in order to fit one, (the type of modifications that get done when the aircraft is being made).

Brahmos M will be ok, can fit 3 in one SU-30.



Viet said:


> we want a new long range supersonic missiles for our su-30. currently our air-to-surface missile Kh-31A has a range of 50km.
> supply is not necessarily free, but we only need some dozens, enough to sink the south sea fleet.



That's the original version, there are other variants that VN already have that have far greater range. KH-31PD has a range of up to 250 km.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is not going to work as you don't have your own systematic ecosystem, just look what happened to Saddam Hussein's army in 1990. They were more mechanized than yours.
> 
> If the US army still fought like the 1970s, then it would take a considerable amount of casualty even they won the first Gulf War.
> 
> However, the modern warfare has evolved by the end of the Cold War, the US army was the first who started the ground breaking systematic integration warfare.
> 
> China has also heavily focused on the systematic modern warfare since the 1990s, while you guys still live in the past warfare by believing to deliver a lethal blow to China with only one or two individual weapons.


How are you so certain that we don't possess this so-called ecosystem? You seem to underestimate our capability: our intelligence in warfare!


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## Nike

@Zarvan nothing is wrong about Vietnam bought Brahmos from India

we are (Indonesia) interesting in Brahmos too and even we had consider to bought some frigate from India if they can competing with some European firms for the next phase of modernization project in Indonesia, nothing problems with that you can bought weapons from everyone if it deemed necessary, is all about National interest.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The Brahmos is too heavy for the SU-30, its necessary to do structural modifications in the aircraft in order to fit one, (the type of modifications that get done when the aircraft is being made).
> 
> Brahmos M will be ok, can fit 3 in one SU-30.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the original version, there are other variants that VN already have that have far greater range. KH-31PD has a range of up to 250 km.


He he he...yes, bro...I read from a report the airforce wants to replace the short range air launched antiship missile by the brahmos.

What is your accessment, do you think the brahmos m version fits our need? I read each unit costs a million of usd, so I think we will just order some dozens, if any.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> How are you so certain that we don't possess this so-called ecosystem? You seem to underestimate our capability: our intelligence in warfare!



What means ecosystem?

It is your own navigation system, your own data link satellite, your own production line, and everything.

It is a huge value chain ecosystem, and Vietnam for sure doesn't possess that.

Any fundamental difference between the modern Vietnamese military and Saddam's Iraqi army? Practically none.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> He he he...yes, bro...I read from a report the airforce wants to replace the short range air launched antiship missile by the brahmos.
> 
> What is your accessment, do you think the brahmos m version fits our need? I read each unit costs a million of usd, so I think we will just order some dozens, if any.



The Brahmos M is even faster than the standard Brahmos, mach 3.5 for Brahmos M and mach 2.8 for standard Brahmos. Brahmos M is the very best that VN can get.

As far as I know Brahmos is about $3 million, I don't know about Brahmos M.
That price is not expensive, Exocet is $5 million. KH-35 is $1.8 million.

Somehow chinesetiger1986 obtained a crystal ball and he happens to know everything that's going in the VPA, he is actually quite wrong but I don't feel like wasting time, time to sleep.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Somehow chinesetiger1986 obtained a crystal ball and he happens to know everything that's going in the VPA, he is actually quite wrong but I don't feel like wasting time, time to sleep.



The systematic ecosystem was built up by a huge value chain with trillion of assets, and this is something impossible to be acquired by a country like Vietnam.

Take China's nuclear arsenal as an ecosystem for example. Our nuclear ecosystem is not only made by the nukes and missiles, but also with a huge asset worth over trillion.

- In order to cover the vulnerability of our ground ICBM troops against the US pre-emptive strike, we have spent 30 years to dig a 5000km tunnel under the mountains. It includes practically everything inside: the highway, the railway, the underground nuclear facilities. *It costs us over trillion dollars to build a such architectural marvel.*

- In order for us to have the early warning time against the US nuclear missiles, we have built up our own infrared satellite group. This will allow us to notice immediately the ballistic missile from any country around the world; its direction/trajectory, the type of warhead carrying by the missiles. *This is again trillion of assets on the space.
*
These are only few examples, and do you think this systematic military race is something that Vietnam could afford?


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> What means ecosystem?
> 
> It is your own navigation system, your own data link satellite, your own production line, and everything.
> 
> It is a huge value chain ecosystem, and Vietnam for sure doesn't possess that.
> 
> Any fundamental difference between the modern Vietnamese military and Saddam's Iraqi army? Practically none.


Too bad we are not china, having just some few billions, unlike you with some 150 billions usd defense budget.

I don't need to convince you, but the history proves we are not a pushover. Just keep your ecosystem intact and let nobody destroy our hightech chain if a conflict breaks out.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Too bad we are not china, having just some few billions, *unlike you with some 150 billions usd defense budget.*
> 
> I don't need to convince you, but the history proves we are not a pushover. Just keep your ecosystem intact and let nobody destroy our hightech chain if a conflict breaks out.



Our "150 billion" defense budget is only on the paper, meanwhile there are a lot of stuffs are not included.

For example, we have never included the multi-trillions underground great wall that we have been working for 30 years.

The systematic military race between the superpowers usually cost multi-trillions.

Take another example, the amount of money that the US needs to renew their aging nuclear warheads alone is already no less than trillion.

U.S. to invest $1 trillion in nuclear arsenal > Security & Defence Agenda > Security & Defence Agenda | Library overview


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Our "150 billion" defense budget is only on the paper, meanwhile there are a lot of stuffs are not included.
> 
> For example, we have never included the multi-trillions underground great wall that we have been working for 30 years.
> 
> The systematic military race between the superpowers usually cost multi-trillions.
> 
> Take another example, the amount of money that the US needs to renew their aging nuclear warheads alone is already no less than trillion.
> 
> U.S. to invest $1 trillion in nuclear arsenal > Security & Defence Agenda > Security & Defence Agenda | Library overview


This underground is of not much useful for the survivors if China becomes a nuclear desert. Preventing a nuclear holocaust is more useful.

Just two questions.

Imagine, china is as small as vietnam. Will you ever dare to bully us? What do you think how high is your chance winning a war against vietnam?

Or, if we successfully destroy your hightech ecosystem at the weakest points, will you be able to keep fighting or surrendering immediately?

You keep talking tough, but your military history is full of ugliness. Come back if you won a war against a military power.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> This underground is of not much useful for the survivors if China becomes a nuclear desert. Preventing a nuclear holocaust is more useful.
> 
> Just two questions.
> 
> Imagine, china is as small as vietnam. Will you ever dare to bully us? What do you think how high is your chance winning a war against vietnam?
> 
> Or, if we successfully destroy your hightech ecosystem at the weakest points, will you be able to keep fighting or surrendering immediately?
> 
> You keep talking tough, but your military history is full of ugliness. Come back if you won a war against a military power.



The underground great wall is not used to provide the haven for people against the nuclear winter, it is used to cover China's land based nuclear stockpile.

*- The survival rate of the silo based ICBM is only 10% against the pre-emptive nuclear strike.
- The survival rate of the mobile ICBM is still only 30% against the pre-emptive nuclear strike.
- The survival rate of the SSBN based SLBM is at 90% against the pre-emptive nuclear strike.*

You should know that the US is by far more ahead than other P5 nations in term the SSBN based SLBM, and their SSBN capability is more than the rest P5 nations combined.

So in order to balance the US overwhelming naval nuclear deterrence capability, we are creating an idea to shelter our land based nuclear missiles underground.

Even the US is impressed by this idea, so they are also thinking to make a similar nuclear underground tunnel located in Colorado.

Doomsday nuclear subway trains will roll beneath the country carrying ballistic missiles under new Air Force plan | Mail Online

This could diversify their nuclear portfolio, so with less money spending on the SSBN, they can spend more money on the SSN which will be used more often in the commonly happened conventional warfare.

BTW, if you want to destroy China's infrastructural ecosystem, then you have to develop the nuclear capability of the US.

However, if anyone dares to launch a such attack against China, then the nuclear winter will inevitably come to this world.


----------



## Viet

_some Vietnam War photos showcased in Perpignan City, France: Visa Pour L’Image_

moving tanks through the Ho Chi Minh trail (1972)






a radio team of the North Vietnamese Army at the battle of Quang Tri (1970)





a Viet Cong unit


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## Viet

most foreign visitors go to the Headquarter of National Defence Ministry (Hanoi)






General Thanh, on September 12th received the new appointed Chief of RoK Airforce, General Choi Cha Kyu.






Vice Admiral Minh greeted visiting Inspector General KR Nautiyal of Indian Coast Guard Forces in Hanoi on September 8.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> @Zarvan nothing is wrong about Vietnam bought Brahmos from India
> 
> we are (Indonesia) interesting in Brahmos too and even we had consider to bought some frigate from India if they can competing with some European firms for the next phase of modernization project in Indonesia, nothing problems with that you can bought weapons from everyone if it deemed necessary, is all about National interest.


madokafc, can you tell me the stance of the government of Indonesia. it appears a bit unclear to me and seems you dance between all tables. on one day you are pro China, the next day you are against it.


----------



## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Our "150 billion" defense budget is only on the paper, meanwhile there are a lot of stuffs are not included.
> 
> For example, we have never included the multi-trillions underground great wall that we have been working for 30 years.
> 
> The systematic military race between the superpowers usually cost multi-trillions.
> 
> Take another example, the amount of money that the US needs to renew their aging nuclear warheads alone is already no less than trillion.
> 
> U.S. to invest $1 trillion in nuclear arsenal > Security & Defence Agenda > Security & Defence Agenda | Library overview



Your position is fundamentally flawed. You stated that VN needs to spends trillions of dollars same as china in order to have a proper military ecosystem and if it can't, then can't have an effective ecosystem to defend itself from china.

The ecosystem that china needs is far bigger and far more expensive than what Vietnam needs because of the large chinese territory and the many threats it faces (India, Russia, Japan, USA, Korea, Vietnam, South china sea.

VN on the other hand, only has one enemy and a small territory that is far easier to defend.
Vietnam needs a far smaller and far cheaper ecosystem than china. Vietnam needs a ecosystem tailored to its needs, not a copy of china's ecosystem. Vietnam can concentrate ALL its military resources to face the one threat, china can only deploy an small part of its military against Vietnam since it needs to have most of its forces in the border areas of all those many other threats.

VN does not need a nuclear ecosystem, china does, that's just one of many differences.

Vietnam is steadily building the ecosystem that it needs.

The Vietnam People's Army has utilized satellite communication for the military since 1998, with 4 VSAT stations for the Navy and another five for the air force and army. That was the first step in building the unified command and control system of the 'C3ISR' (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance). The integrated C3ISR network will be finished in a few years. Vietnam has already produced small satellites and is steadily building bigger and bigger satellites to satisfy its needs. Military data link by satellite is already operational since 2008.

Are you aware that VN is building a sophisticated network of radars specifically dedicated to the detection of stealth aircraft as preparation for when china deploys the J-20?

Instead of boasting about the chinese ecosystem (which is way inferior to the one from USA by the way), I suggest you work on fixing all its holes because it has plenty, just to make a point, the chinese radar network in china's coastline (which happens to be the most important area of it) has big gaps between radars that allow US aircraft to penetrate undetected into chinese airspace.
So much for the multi trillion dollar chinese ecosystem, even VN's radar network is better than that.

The fact that you said that there is no difference between Sadam's military and Vietnam's military shows how little you know about the VPA and unlike China's PLA that has a well built reputation for grossly exaggerating its military capabilities, Vietnam on the other hand, keeps utmost secrecy.

I already made the points that I needed to make, I'm not getting into endless debates, I'm in the middle of traveling, I'm done with the subject, ok? Bye Bye.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> madokafc, can you tell me the stance of the government of Indonesia. it appears a bit unclear to me and seems you dance between all tables. on one day you are pro China, the next day you are against it.



Their official position is about neutrality and they try to be a mediator in the south china sea conflict, but at the same time, because of recent aggressive actions by chinese ships in the Natuna islands area, they realize that the chinese threat is real and they are starting to focus their military on it. 

Lets see what madokafc says, but in my view, it doesn't work to try to be neutral once china has ambitions in your territory. Malaysia is a good case in point, they were very pro chinese and what did they get? They got stabbed in the back with chinese claims and exercises at James Shoal.

I don't think its a good idea for then to buy chinese military equipment from china such as those anti ship missiles, it does create a dependency with a country that will be your opponent (but at least they are getting technology transfer on that, which is actually very funny, the chinese have been delaying that tech transfer because of copyright issues, even that is tech that the chinese pirated from Russia).


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Their official position is about neutrality and they try to be a mediator in the south china sea conflict, but at the same time, because of recent aggressive actions by chinese ships in the Natuna islands area, they realize that the chinese threat is real and they are starting to focus their military on it.
> 
> Lets see what madokafc says, but in my view, it doesn't work to try to be neutral once china has ambitions in your territory. *Malaysia *is a good case in point, they were very pro chinese and what did they get? They got stabbed in the back with chinese claims and exercises at James Shoal.
> 
> I don't think its a good idea for then to buy chinese military equipment from china such as those anti ship missiles, it does create a dependency with a country that will be your opponent (but at least they are getting technology transfer on that, which is actually very funny, the chinese have been delaying that tech transfer because of copyright issues, even that is tech that the chinese pirated from Russia).


no question the chinese are smart and play dirty tricks. they say one thing and do other thing. for them, the southeast asians are dumb. well, now at least Malaysia realises it and offers to host US spy aircraft. a 180 degree return.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/mala...vy-aircraft-military-official-says-1410524618

Indonesia has access to weapon technologies of US, Korean and other western companies. I guess the chinese are very interested to obtain this from Indonesia through backdoors, hence the proposed defence cooperations with Indonesia. Nothing is free in this world, least from the chinese.

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## Viet

Army Corps #1









































Regiment 228 (air defence)...somewhere on the Sino-Vietnam border


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## pher

Viet said:


> Army Corps #1
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> 
> Regiment 228 (air defence)...somewhere on the Sino-Vietnam border
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you think you are fighting ww2 by posting these primitive-equipped pics? stupid viets.


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## Viet

Regiment 937 (SU22-M4)


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## Viet

pher said:


> you think you are fighting ww2 by posting these primitive-equipped pics? stupid viets.


Yes, but we have a long history of victories against Asian and Western military powers including China, Mongol, France, America, Thailand, Cambodia and Champa, while China army is famous as loser.

What have you achieved in wars? You were good at civil wars, but against foreigners? You have a long history of terrible performances on battlefields. Yes, you lost even against a third rate army as Burma. Do you think having modern weapons will help you winning the next war? No, you will lose the next war again. As usual.


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## pher

Viet said:


> Yes, but we have a long history of victories against Asian and Western military powers including China, Mongol, France, America, Thailand, Cambodia and Champa, while China army is famous as loser.
> 
> What have you achieved in wars? You were good at civil wars, but against foreigners? You have a long history of terrible performances on battlefields. Yes, you lost even against a third rate army as Burma. Do you think having modern weapons will help you winning the next war? No, you will lose the next war again. As usual.


look at the ugly shape of your country, then everybody knows how capable you viets are in the history. Look at the territory China occupied, then you will konw what Chines could do


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## Zarvan

madokafc said:


> @Zarvan nothing is wrong about Vietnam bought Brahmos from India
> 
> we are (Indonesia) interesting in Brahmos too and even we had consider to bought some frigate from India if they can competing with some European firms for the next phase of modernization project in Indonesia, nothing problems with that you can bought weapons from everyone if it deemed necessary, is all about National interest.


Buying frigates from India you gotta be kidding and buying Brahmos from China will realy impact your relations with China


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## Nike

Zarvan said:


> Buying frigates from India you gotta be kidding and buying Brahmos from China will realy impact your relations with China



well some of our Naval officer has visited their shipyard and checking some ships especially Talwar class, about China? we don't mind them at all when we are buying weapons. Just like our Vietnamese friend here.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Your position is fundamentally flawed. You stated that VN needs to spends trillions of dollars same as china in order to have a proper military ecosystem and if it can't, then can't have an effective ecosystem to defend itself from china.
> 
> The ecosystem that china needs is far bigger and far more expensive than what Vietnam needs because of the large chinese territory and the many threats it faces (India, Russia, Japan, USA, Korea, Vietnam, South china sea.
> 
> VN on the other hand, only has one enemy and a small territory that is far easier to defend.
> Vietnam needs a far smaller and far cheaper ecosystem than china. Vietnam needs a ecosystem tailored to its needs, not a copy of china's ecosystem. Vietnam can concentrate ALL its military resources to face the one threat, china can only deploy an small part of its military against Vietnam since it needs to have most of its forces in the border areas of all those many other threats.
> 
> VN does not need a nuclear ecosystem, china does, that's just one of many differences.
> 
> Vietnam is steadily building the ecosystem that it needs.
> 
> The Vietnam People's Army has utilized satellite communication for the military since 1998, with 4 VSAT stations for the Navy and another five for the air force and army. That was the first step in building the unified command and control system of the 'C3ISR' (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance). The integrated C3ISR network will be finished in a few years. Vietnam has already produced small satellites and is steadily building bigger and bigger satellites to satisfy its needs. Military data link by satellite is already operational since 2008.
> 
> Are you aware that VN is building a sophisticated network of radars specifically dedicated to the detection of stealth aircraft as preparation for when china deploys the J-20?
> 
> Instead of boasting about the chinese ecosystem (which is way inferior to the one from USA by the way), I suggest you work on fixing all its holes because it has plenty, just to make a point, the chinese radar network in china's coastline (which happens to be the most important area of it) has big gaps between radars that allow US aircraft to penetrate undetected into chinese airspace.
> So much for the multi trillion dollar chinese ecosystem, even VN's radar network is better than that.
> 
> The fact that you said that there is no difference between Sadam's military and Vietnam's military shows how little you know about the VPA and unlike China's PLA that has a well built reputation for grossly exaggerating its military capabilities, Vietnam on the other hand, keeps utmost secrecy.
> 
> I already made the points that I needed to make, I'm not getting into endless debates, I'm in the middle of traveling, I'm done with the subject, ok? Bye Bye.



The gap between Vietnam and China will only grow bigger, not smaller, just like the GDP gap.

The military power is fundamentally backed by the economic power. The best example is USSR, since they didn't have the economic power of the US, that's why they eventually lost the military race against the US.

China's nominal GDP right now is 10 trillion, and it will annually add 1 trillion, which is equivalent to 6 countries like Vietnam.

And tell me how the gap is going to grow smaller?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> no question the chinese are smart and play dirty tricks. they say one thing and do other thing. for them, the southeast asians are dumb. well, now at least Malaysia realises it and offers to host US spy aircraft. a 180 degree return.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/articles/mala...vy-aircraft-military-official-says-1410524618
> 
> *Indonesia has access to weapon technologies of US, Korean and other western companies. I guess the chinese are very interested to obtain this from Indonesia through backdoors, hence the proposed defence cooperations with Indonesia. Nothing is free in this world, least from the chinese.*



We are not interested about those watered down export of the US weapons.

As for the Korean weapons, are you kidding me? Those South Koreans don't even know how to build a modern rocket of their own.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because they have never been in the West, that's why they believe it should be a heaven.
> 
> BTW, we should stick to the topic.
> 
> Vietnam is a weak country, it is not wise for them to involve into a military race with a major great power like China.



Yes, we should stick to topic, this is not an economic forum anyway and to finish, I'll say that I didn't say that china is not a big economic power, of course it is, what I said is that the numbers are cooked and that's a well known open secret in china. The trillion dollar economy is more like 8 to 9 in practice. And still, economic power doesn't often translate into prosperity to most people. In USA the stock market keeps going up, but that doesn't do anything for the average working person.

There is no doubt that Vietnam is much weaker than china, who denies that? My point was that china has many holes to fix before boasting so much about all that power. And anyway, numbers, appearances and theories end when actual conflict starts. There are plenty of cases of big powers and mighty military ecosystems that got defeated by smaller powers, so lets not be so overconfident. Like they say in USA, talk is cheap.


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## Sasquatch

Stick to the topic about Vietnam's military not Vietnam or China's living conditions.

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## Carlosa

Hu Songshan said:


> Stick to the topic about Vietnam's military not Vietnam or China's living conditions.



Yes sir !!! Apologies.


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## Sasquatch

Carlosa said:


> Yes sir !!! Apologies.



Thanks.


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## Water Car Engineer

Russia can refit Kilos to launch Brahmos I think.

Or get Amur class











Good stand off weapon



Zarvan said:


> Buying frigates from India you gotta be kidding and buying Brahmos from China will realy impact your relations with China



China doesnt have Brahmos to sell.

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## Carlosa

Water Car Engineer said:


> View attachment 51097
> 
> View attachment 51098
> 
> 
> Russia can refit Kilos to launch Brahmos I think.
> 
> Or get Amur class
> 
> View attachment 51099
> 
> 
> View attachment 51100
> 
> 
> Good stand off weapon



Oh very interesting info, thank you. I knew that the sub designer, Rubin is working on a AIP that can be retrofited it in a Kilo by adding a section to the hull, but to add a section for Brahmos really takes the sub to the next level, I thought the Kilo was too small for that. Can I ask you about your source for that?

What's the status with Amur? The Russians were having a lot of problems with it and with the AIP, are they solving those issues?


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## Water Car Engineer

Carlosa said:


> Oh very interesting info, thank you. I knew that the sub designer, Rubin is working on a AIP that can be retrofited it in a Kilo by adding a section to the hull, but to add a section for Brahmos really takes the sub to the next level, I thought the Kilo was too small for that. Can I ask you about your source for that?



Never mind, the first two pics are also Amur class, not Kilo.


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## Carlosa

Water Car Engineer said:


> Never mind, the first two pics are also Amur class, not Kilo.



What's the status with Amur? The Russians were having a lot of problems with it and with the AIP, are they solving those issues?


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## Water Car Engineer

Carlosa said:


> What's the status with Amur? The Russians were having a lot of problems with it and with the AIP, are they solving those issues?



Haven't been following it. Though, they are still offering it to the Indian navy.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> Stick to the topic about Vietnam's military not Vietnam or China's living conditions.



Since Vietnam now views China as the biggest potential threat, so it is normal to have China's subject involved in the topic.

But it is the Viet members here who started to derail the topic, and making fun about China's living standards.

So next time I will not reply to their off-topic comments.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Since Vietnam now views China as the biggest potential threat, so it is normal to have China's subject involved in the topic.
> 
> But it is the Viet members here who started to derail the topic, and making fun about China's living standards.
> 
> So next time I will not reply to their off-topic comments.



As I recalled you are the one that started to talk about GDP.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Haven't been following it. Though, they are still offering it to the Indian navy.



India seems to be going for more Scorpenes, but that one is too small for the Brahmos I think.

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## World Citizen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Since Vietnam now views China as the biggest potential threat, so it is normal to have China's subject involved in the topic.
> 
> But it is the Viet members here who started to derail the topic, and making fun about China's living standards.
> 
> So next time I will not reply to their off-topic comments.



Vietnam views China as back stabs, greedy friend , NOT biggest potential threat .


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> As I recalled you are the one that started to talk about GDP.



I stated that the military power is backed by the economic power, while you and NiceGuy started to derail the topic by making fun at China's living standards.

So next time stop derailing when you are running out of arguments.

Vietnam's economy is so puny, she cannot afford to make her own R&D, while stop foreign weapons are expensive.

With a such little budget, you will easily run out of money.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I stated that the military power is backed by the economic power, while you and NiceGuy started to derail the topic by making fun at China's living standards.
> 
> So next time stop derailing when you are running out of arguments.
> 
> Vietnam's economy is so puny, she cannot afford to make her own R&D, while stop foreign weapons are expensive.
> 
> With a such little budget, you will easily run out of money.



I didn't run out of arguments, I gave you plenty of arguments that you could not say much about. Too bad those posts got deleted by the moderator so everybody could see. You can try to fool people that don't know china, but not me, I know china very well.

Vietnam doubled the defense budget in the last 3 years and the economy is growing at a very healthy rate, so I don't think it will be a problem to fund the military.

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## Viet

Water Car Engineer said:


> View attachment 51097
> 
> View attachment 51098
> 
> 
> Russia can refit Kilos to launch Brahmos I think.
> 
> Or get Amur class
> 
> View attachment 51099
> 
> 
> View attachment 51100
> 
> 
> Good stand off weapon
> 
> 
> 
> China doesnt have Brahmos to sell.


that is nice. I am pretty sure we will purchase more submarines. the imbalance of power at sea leaves us little choice but resorting to asymmetric warfare. Amur class seems to be suitable for our need.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I stated that the military power is backed by the economic power, while you and NiceGuy started to derail the topic by making fun at China's living standards.
> 
> So next time stop derailing when you are running out of arguments.
> 
> Vietnam's economy is so puny, she cannot afford to make her own R&D, while stop foreign weapons are expensive.
> 
> With a such little budget, you will easily run out of money.


that is not new what you say: we are small and short of money. so what is your suggestion? shall we surrender?


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## Viet

pher said:


> look at the ugly shape of your country, then everybody knows how capable you viets are in the history. Look at the territory China occupied, then you will konw what Chines could do


this thread is about the status of VN army as it is. if you look for modern gear you better go to other threads.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> that is not new what you say: we are small and short of money. so what is your suggestion? shall we surrender?



Better to take care of your own economy than buying those expensive toys.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Better to take care of your own economy than buying those expensive toys.


a wise advice of a wise man?
STOP intruding into our land, water, airspace and islands and RETURN to the negotiating table.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> a wise advice of a wise man?
> STOP intruding into our land, water, airspace and islands and RETURN to the negotiating table.



It is too expensive for Vietnam, having few Kilo subs and Gepard light frigates still make your navy looks like peanut.

BTW, Xisha is our territorial sovereignty right now, and we are keen to maintain the status quo.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Better to take care of your own economy than buying those expensive toys.



Give that same message to china so that they can try to fix the big holes that threaten to reck the chinese economy such as the shadow banking (a multi trillion dollar hole), real state bubble, etc. Let see how long china can keep financing the military if one of those bubbles burst.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Give that same message to china so that they can try to fix the big holes that threaten to reck the chinese economy such as the shadow banking (a multi trillion dollar hole), real state bubble, etc. Let see how long china can keep financing the military if one of those bubbles burst.



I am not going to reply on this post. Otherwise, it is going to be off-topic again.

BTW, next time if you wanna discuss your newly purchased weapons, just stop comparing it with China's, it is utterly useless.

Vietnam is nowhere on the league to make the comparison with the mighty China.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is too expensive for Vietnam, having few Kilo subs and Gepard light frigates still make your navy looks like peanut.
> 
> BTW, Xisha is our territorial sovereignty right now, and we are keen to maintain the status quo.


for a long period of time we concentrated on economic recovery. actually since about 5 years, when the tension in the SC Sea began to escalate, we are starting with the naval build-up, and on track to become the most powerful navy in SE Asia in 3 years.

well, you are right, we are still peanut if compared to navies of China, Japan, not to mention America.
we are keen on maintaining the status quo as well.


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## sicsheep

Viet said:


> that is nice. I am pretty sure we will purchase more submarines. the imbalance of power at sea leaves us little choice but resorting to asymmetric warfare. Amur class seems to be suitable for our need.
> 
> 
> that is not new what you say: we are small and short of money. so what is your suggestion? shall we surrender?



imbalance of power at sea? when was the last time you checked the balance of power on land? we don't even need our Navy for Vietnam.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> for a long period of time we concentrated on economic recovery. actually since about 5 years, when the tension in the SC Sea began to escalate, we are starting with the naval build-up, and on track to become the most powerful navy in SE Asia in 3 years.
> 
> well, you are right, we are still peanut if compared to navies of China, Japan, not to mention America.
> we are keen on maintaining the status quo as well.



It is hard for Vietnam to become the strongest naval power in SEA, since many other nations are larger than you.

If we sell the Type 052 series destroyers and the AIP subs to Indonesia, then you can never become the strongest navy in SEA.


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am not going to reply on this post. Otherwise, it is going to be off-topic again.
> 
> BTW, next time if you wanna discuss your newly purchased weapons, *just stop comparing it with China's,* it is utterly useless.
> 
> Vietnam is nowhere on the league to make the comparison with the mighty China.


the problem is it is difficult to avoid china as topic when coming to weapons purchases, because the defence of vietnam is about defending our country against china. that is basically our motive since vietnam regained independence. we don´t want to compare with you, but want to get rid of you.

to tell you the truth. the vietnamese people don´t need anything from you, just peace. you can keep your money or whatever to yourself. today everyone of us even wants to avoid the word "china" in daily discussions.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is hard for Vietnam to become the strongest naval power in SEA, since many other nations are larger than you.
> 
> If we sell the Type 052 series destroyers and the AIP subs to Indonesia, then you can never become the strongest navy in SEA.



china doesn't even have a AIP sub yet, but you want to sell them to Indonesia, time for you to get a grip on reality.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> china doesn't even have a AIP sub yet, but you want to sell them to Indonesia, time for you to get a grip on reality.



We have many.

Type 039A submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am not going to reply on this post. Otherwise, it is going to be off-topic again.
> 
> BTW, next time if you wanna discuss your newly purchased weapons, just stop comparing it with China's, it is utterly useless.
> 
> Vietnam is nowhere on the league to make the comparison with the mighty China.



Lets get the facts clear, you are the one that keeps intruding in the vietnamese thread and start making comparisons, not us.

Why you don't stay with your chinese buddies in the chinese threads and stop interfering in our business?


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is hard for Vietnam to become the strongest naval power in SEA, since many other nations are larger than you.
> 
> If we sell the Type 052 series destroyers and the AIP subs to Indonesia, then you can never become the strongest navy in SEA.


well, if you want to sell destroyers and subs to Indo then do it. I am not aware that Indonesia is our enemy? let ask @madokafc



sicsheep said:


> imbalance of power at sea? when was the last time you checked the balance of power *on land*? we don't even need our Navy for Vietnam.


it is very unlikely that China starts a ground invasion into Vietnam.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> well, if you want to sell destroyers and subs to Indo then do it. I am not aware that Indonesia is our enemy? let ask @madokafc



You can ask the US to donate their nearly retired Arleigh Burke Flight I by 2020.

But I doubt that they will give you for free. Meanwhile, you will heavily depend on the US in order to operate these ships.


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## sicsheep

Viet said:


> it is very unlikely that China starts a ground invasion into Vietnam.



Why not? you thought that in 1979


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> My mistake, I had miss that one. A copy of the Kilo of course and a AIP pirated from Sweden as usual, mighty china doesn't seem to be able to come up with its own technology. Always the mighty copycat.



BTW, stop the off-topic trolling, we have even much newer AIP model such as the Type 039C which are under the deployment phase, many Type 039B are already deployed.

Our AIP subs are usually large, some are even close to the size of the LA class SSN. So we don't copy at all.

Think about how your Kilo could survive against the onslaught of our much more superior sub fleet.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> BTW, stop the off-topic trolling, we have even much newer AIP model such as the Type 039C which are under the deployment phase, many Type 039B are already deployed.
> 
> Our AIP subs are usually large, some are even close to the size of the LA class SSN. So we don't copy at all.
> 
> Think about how your Kilo could survive against the onslaught of our much more superior sub fleet.



The onslaught of noisy chinese subs since they can't even copy the russian work very well. You keep wearing the pink glasses.


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## Viet

sicsheep said:


> Why not? you thought that in 1979


sure, everything is possible including ground and arial assaults. but considering we "only" have sea dispute, so the likelyhood of a confrontation at sea is higher than other scenarios.

we are pouring most of the funds to navy and airforce. look at our tanks, they are from the soviet times


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> The onslaught of noisy chinese subs since they can't even copy the russian work very well. You keep wearing the pink glasses.



Our subs are not noisy at all. The Indian navy didn't even notice the presence of our SSN in the Indian Ocean until we told them.

Do you think that your capability to detect the subs is better than the Indian navy?

Exclusive: Indian Navy headless as Chinese nuclear sub prowls Indian Ocean : North, News - India Today


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You can ask the US to donate their nearly retired Arleigh Burke Flight I by 2020.
> 
> But I doubt that they will give you for free. Meanwhile, you will heavily depend on the US in order to operate these ships.


you can calculate that we carry out secret talks in America. our aim is how to convince uncle sam to fund our military build-up. vietnam should be seen as Israel of Asia. $2-3 billions a year, and we can afford new toys 
today we depend too much on Russia as weapons provider. that is not healthy.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> you can calculate that we carry out secret talks in America. our aim is how to convince uncle sam to fund our military build-up. vietnam should be seen as Israel of Asia. $2-3 billions a year, and we can afford new toys
> today we depend too much on Russia as weapons provider. that is not healthy.



I truly hope you can get the AB Flight I from the USN, since these old white elephants will eat up all your puny budget quickly.

BTW, you can't even assemble the AB class like Japan and South Korea, since your shipbuilding capability is nowhere near to their level.

Even Japan and South Korea cannot build their own AB class destroyer without the help from the USN.


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you can calculate that we carry out secret talks in America. our aim is how to convince uncle sam to fund our military build-up. vietnam should be seen as Israel of Asia. $2-3 billions a year, and we can afford new toys
> today we depend too much on Russia as weapons provider. that is not healthy.



No need, that's not big money, VN can come up with its own and shop for the best that is available.

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## sicsheep

Viet said:


> sure, everything is possible including ground and arial assaults. but considering we "only" have sea dispute, so the likelyhood of a confrontation at sea is higher than other scenarios.
> 
> we are pouring most of the funds to navy and airforce. look at our tanks, they are from the soviet times



like i said in other treads, Vietnam is the only country in SCS dispute with China that also shares a boarder on land, if anything, it will be so easily for us to launch retaliation on land, 

Trust me, we are very well equipped for a 2 million (active service) strong army, 
Around one million can be mobilized to our southern boarder within a day or two 

we also account for a third of your economy, (i don't have the statistics vice versa, but you get the picture) 

maybe it is time for Vietnam to calm down..


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## Carlosa

There are rumors that VN is going to send pilots to India to train in the new SU-30SM with Brahmos. The SU-30SM is one of the 3 choices that VN is considering for the next order, the others being the SU-34 and the SU-35.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> No need, that's not big money, VN can come up with its own and shop for the best that is available.



You will have 6 Kilo subs in standoff against China's 20 SSNs and 50 AIP subs by 2020.

That's your best option.


----------



## Carlosa

sicsheep said:


> like i said in other treads, Vietnam is the only country in SCS dispute with China that also shares a boarder on land, if anything, it will be so easily for us to launch retaliation on land,
> 
> Trust me, we are very well equipped for a 2 million (active service) strong army,
> Around one million can be mobilized to our southern boarder within a day or two
> 
> we also account for a third of your economy, (i don't have the statistics vice versa, but you get the picture)
> 
> maybe it is time for Vietnam to calm down..



Another chinese wearing the pink glasses and day dreaming.

"Around one million can be mobilized to our southern boarder within a day or two".
That's the most rediculous thing I've heard in a very long time, only in your dreams.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You will have 6 Kilo subs in standoff against China's 20 SSNs and 50 AIP subs by 2020.
> 
> That's your best option.



I'll believe those numbers when I see them.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> I'll believe those numbers when I see them.



lol, we build our nuclear/AIP subs much faster than your acquisition of the Kilo subs.

We have 13 Type 039A AIP subs, but now we have already deployed the much more advanced Type 039C AIP subs.

We have multiple production lines, so you cannot match our building speed.

China's new Yuan-class sub seen preparing for sea trials - IHS Jane's 360

6 Kilo versus 13 of our first gen AIP Type 039A, not mentioning the same number of the Type 039B, and the commissioning Type 039C. What a pity for Vietnam's peanut navy.


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## sicsheep

Carlosa said:


> Another chinese wearing the pink glasses and day dreaming..



you are welcome to give some facts to proof i am wrong.


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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, we build our nuclear/AIP subs much faster than your acquisition of the Kilo subs.
> 
> We have 13 Type 039A AIP subs, but now we have already deployed the much more advanced Type 039C AIP subs.
> 
> We have multiple production lines, so you cannot match our building speed.
> 
> China's new Yuan-class sub seen preparing for sea trials - IHS Jane's 360
> 
> 6 Kilo versus 13 of our first gen AIP Type 039A, not mentioning the same number of the Type 039B, and the commissioning Type 039C. What a pity for Vietnam's peanut navy.


Vietnam's peanut navy control the largest and the most important parts of SCS(east sea) when 'mighty' China is very hard to find on Spratly map , maybe they use their 'mighty' subs to control the Spratly, thats why it hard to see them there

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## Carlosa

sicsheep said:


> you are welcome to give some facts to proof i am wrong.



During the oil rig situation China started to move forces to the border with Vietnam and it happened very, very slowly, they took weeks to move 2 brigades, so your claim is total nonsense. Show me some proof that china has that ability, you made the claim after all.

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## Viet

_hmmm...I don´t read any agreement of delivering brahmos missiles. perhaps at later stage.
_
*India tightens Vietnam defence, oil ties ahead of China's Xi Jinping's visit*
Reuters | Sep 16, 2014, 10.32 AM IST





_President Pranab Mukherjee being welcomed on his arrival at Hanoi International Airport on Sunday | PTI_

NEW DELHI: India extended a $100 million export credit to Vietnam for defence deals and tightened energy ties on Monday, signaling a more confident foreign policy ahead of a visit this week by China's President Xi Jinping.

India's new accords with one of China's rivals for influence in the South China Sea came as Xi visited the nearby islands of Sri Lanka and the Maldives, a reminder of the geostrategic jostling that is becoming an increasing feature in Asia.

During a visit to Vietnam by President Pranab Mukherjee, the two countries said in a joint statement that the credit line would open new opportunities for defence cooperation and that details of what Vietnam would buy were being finalised.

"The leaders agreed that defence and security cooperation was an important pillar of the strategic partnership between the two countries," the statement said.

They also agreed to "consolidate" energy cooperation following a 2013 agreement under which PetroVietnam offered India's ONGC oil and gas blocks for exploration and production.

India and Vietnam have deepened military cooperation over the past decade and under Prime Minister Narendra Modi, India is pushing ahead with a new strategy to establish itself as an arms exporter using export credits to leverage foreign sales.

The money may help slow-moving talks to sell Brahmos cruise missiles to Hanoi.

Vietnam is building a naval deterrent to China with Kilo class submarines from Russia and it would like to add India's missile technology to its defences.

India and Vietnam have both traditionally depended heavily on their mutual Cold War partner Russia for military knowhow. The Brahmos itself was developed with Russian help.

*READ ALSO: India, Vietnam ink seven agreements*






_(President Pranab Mukherjee reviews a guard of honour with Vietnamese counterpart Truong Tan Sang during a welcoming ceremony at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi. Photo: Reuters) _

*Regional competition*

Carl Thayer, an expert on Vietnam's military at the Australian Defence Force Academy in Canberra, said he believed Vietnam was seeking India's ship attack variants of the missile.

Indian tests showed the supersonic cruise missile could be successfully fired from ships, which matched Hanoi's goal of creating a meaningful deterrent against China.

"This is leading-edge technology that would further complicate the ability of the Chinese navy to operate off the Vietnamese coast with impunity, particularly in the south of the South China Sea," Thayer said.

"The Vietnamese do not want to be in a situation where they wake up one morning and discover the Chinese navy has surrounded one of its bases in the Spratlys," he said, referring to a disputed island chain.






_(President Pranab Mukherjee adjusts a wreath during a wreath-laying ceremony at the War Martyrs Monument in Hanoi. Photo: Reuters)_

Business is growing fast between India and China, but the rising powers' ties are also defined by competition for energy and regional clout, as well as a border dispute that led to war 50 years ago.

Long insecure about China's strength, India elected Modi in May partly because of his promises to build an economically strong nation that could hold its own on the world stage.

The timing of Mukherjee's visit to Vietnam may not have been planned to coincide with Xi's South Asia tour, but it underlined India's new twin track diplomacy, foreign policy analyst C Raja Mohan wrote in a newspaper on Monday.

"Much like China, which does not limit its strategic relationship with Pakistan because of Indian concerns, the Modi government apparently believes it can build a partnership with Vietnam on its own merits without worrying too much about what Beijing might think," Mohan said.

Also on Mukherjee's trip, India's Jet Airways and Vietnam Airlines agreed to start flying between Delhi and Ho Chi Minh City from November 5, via Bangkok.

Xi will be in India from September 17-19.


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## FairAndUnbiased

The difference between a motorized army (VPA) and an informationized army (PLA) is like the difference between a motorized army and horse cavalry. VPA simply does not have the complete network to compete.


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## Carlosa

Brahmos is coming soon, lets see if type 52 can handle that.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> The difference between a motorized army (VPA) and an informationized army (PLA) is like the difference between a motorized army and horse cavalry. VPA simply does not have the complete network to compete.



The Taliban also doesn't have much of a network, but they are still there and the americans are the ones that are leaving.


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## tonyget

Carlosa said:


> During the oil rig situation China started to move forces to the border with Vietnam and it happened very, very slowly, they took weeks to move 2 brigades, so your claim is total nonsense. Show me some proof that china has that ability, you made the claim after all.




That makes sense, China didn't want to escalate the situation. Moving large troops to border region in short time is a sign of war, and China wasn't preparing for war against Vietnam.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, we build our nuclear/AIP subs much faster than your acquisition of the Kilo subs.
> 
> We have 13 Type 039A AIP subs, but now we have already deployed the much more advanced Type 039C AIP subs.
> 
> We have multiple production lines, so you cannot match our building speed.
> 
> China's new Yuan-class sub seen preparing for sea trials - IHS Jane's 360
> 
> 6 Kilo versus 13 of our first gen AIP Type 039A, not mentioning the same number of the Type 039B, and the commissioning Type 039C. What a pity for Vietnam's peanut navy.


can you give me any proof that chinese subs operate in the SC Sea?


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## Carlosa

tonyget said:


> That makes sense, China didn't want to escalate the situation. Moving large troops to border region in short time is a sign of war, and China wasn't preparing for war against Vietnam.


That's a fair possibility, but to claim that china can move 1 million men to the border in 1 or 2 days is total nonsense. The logistical effort involved is impossible to do in a short time period.


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## sincity

Vietnamese military still used vintage US weapons in the 60's?



Carlosa said:


> That's a fair possibility, but to claim that china can move 1 million men to the border in 1 or 2 days is total nonsense. The logistical effort involved is impossible to do in a short time period.





China move their troop within China, how it's possible for them to move millions troops in 2 days? Cargo plane, bus, civilian plane, buses, transport trucks? Aren't these transport system couldn't move millions troop in 1 days?


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## Viet

as long as we are talking...there is no immediate war in sign 

_VN foreign minister Minh on September 16 attended the 11th China-ASEAN Exposition (CAEXPO) and China-ASEAN Business and Investment Summit (CABIS) opening ceremony in Nanning._






_Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli (3rd R) meets with Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh in Nanning, capital of south China's Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, Sept. 15, 2014. (Xinhua/Wang Ye)_


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## sicsheep

Ok since so many of you asked, it is called mass mobilization, which is almost drilled to perfection by PLA, 

Have any of you heard of Chunyun? we move 5 millions of civilians per day during Chunyun, by rail only. and disciplined infantry can be transported much more sufficiently than civilians, plus a combined mode of transport including vast fleet of ro-ro and bulk vessel by state owned Shipping company and airlines, dont forget troops already stationed in the area, 1 million in 2 days is easy 

"“With the daily improvement in China’s high-speed rail network, transferring a 100,000 person army 1,000 li [310 miles] might be possible within half a day in the future,” the report said, adding that the military will use high-speed rail to project “mobile combat forces in various strategic directions.”

Inside the Ring: China military on the rails - Washington Times

Chunyun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Carlosa

sincity said:


> China move their troop within China, how it's possible for them to move millions troops in 2 days? Cargo plane, bus, civilian plane, buses, transport trucks? Aren't these transport system couldn't move millions troop in 1 days?



Its not so simple, first they have to prepare to move and prepare all their equipment to move, that already takes a few days. Moving the men is meaningless without moving their equipment and that part is not so simple as you think. Its very clear that you have no idea of the logistical effort involved.



sicsheep said:


> Ok since so many of you asked, it is called mass mobilization, which is almost drilled to perfection by PLA,
> 
> Have any of you heard of Chunyun? we move 5 millions of civilians per day during Chunyun, by rail only. and disciplined infantry can be transported much more sufficiently than civilians, plus a combined mode of transport including vast fleet of ro-ro and bulk vessel by state owned Shipping company and airlines, dont forget troops already stationed in the area, 1 million in 2 days is easy
> 
> "“With the daily improvement in China’s high-speed rail network, transferring a 100,000 person army 1,000 li [310 miles] might be possible within half a day in the future,” the report said, adding that the military will use high-speed rail to project “mobile combat forces in various strategic directions.”
> 
> Inside the Ring: China military on the rails - Washington Times
> 
> Chunyun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> View attachment 52910
> 
> 
> View attachment 52911
> 
> View attachment 52912
> View attachment 52913
> View attachment 52914
> 
> View attachment 52915
> 
> View attachment 52916
> View attachment 52917



We are not talking civilians here, we are talking combat troops with all their heavy equipment and supplies, can't do in 2 days, period!


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## sincity

Carlosa said:


> Its not so simple, first they have to prepare to move and prepare all their equipment to move, that already takes a few days. Moving the men is meaningless without moving their equipment and that part is not so simple as you think. Its very clear that you have no idea of the logistical effort involved.
> 
> 
> 
> We are not talking civilians here, we are talking combat troops with all their heavy equipment and supplies, can't do in 2 days, period![/quote
> 
> 
> 
> China army already station close to border with Vietnam, most of equipment can be move in the same way they move their troop, they move their millions army within China not away from China.


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## C130

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I stated that the military power is backed by the economic power, while you and NiceGuy started to derail the topic by making fun at China's living standards.
> 
> So next time stop derailing when you are running out of arguments.
> 
> Vietnam's economy is so puny, she cannot afford to make her own R&D, while stop foreign weapons are expensive.
> 
> With a such little budget, you will easily run out of money.



you know by your standards you could apply the Vietnam/China thing to Pakistan/India, but do you think fellow Pakistan members care about how much bigger India economy is?? are they going to except defeat and become a dog??? just cause Indian economy is bigger and has a larger military??

come on now.

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## sincity

C130 said:


> you know by your standards you could apply the Vietnam/China thing to Pakistan/India, but do you think fellow Pakistan members care about how much bigger India economy is?? and are going to except defeat and become a dog???




India economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan, your comparison is moot.


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## C130

sincity said:


> India economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan, your comparison is moot.


Indian economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan 

India-2 trillion
Pakistan-240 billion

and the gap will widen exponentially in the next 20 years

obviously you didn't get my point.


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## Nike

sincity said:


> India economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan, your comparison is moot.


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## sicsheep

C130 said:


> Indian economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan
> 
> India-2 trillion
> Pakistan-240 billion
> 
> and the gap will widen exponentially in the next 20 years
> 
> obviously you didn't get my point.


 

Pakistan is nuclear power, any conflict could escalate into nuclear war, is Vietnam ?


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## sincity

madokafc said:


>



In compare to the India population, India as poor as Pakistan



C130 said:


> Indian economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan
> 
> India-2 trillion
> Pakistan-240 billion
> 
> and the gap will widen exponentially in the next 20 years
> 
> obviously you didn't get my point.





India over 1 billions in population, their GDP is bigger than Pakistan because the size of their population and not because India is richer.


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## C130

sicsheep said:


> Pakistan is nuclear power, any conflict could escalate into nuclear war, is Vietnam ?



has that ever stopped the two from warring against one another 
does it matter Vietnam doesn't have nukes??? is China going to nuke Vietnam or any country that doesn't bow down to them??

point is when has being economically/militarily surperior ever stopped the inferior from fighting back??? who doesn't love underdogs.


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## sincity

C130 said:


> has that ever stopped the two from warring against one another
> does it matter Vietnam doesn't have nukes??? is China going to nuke Vietnam or any country that doesn't bow down to them??
> 
> point is when has being economically/militarily surperior ever stopped the inferior from fighting back??? who doesn't love underdogs.




You mean American should love Taliban because they are underdog fight against the US superpower?


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## Carlosa

sincity said:


> China move their troop within China, how it's possible for them to move millions troops in 2 days? Cargo plane, bus, civilian plane, buses, transport trucks? Aren't these transport system couldn't move millions troop in 1 days?



Its not so simple, first they have to prepare to move and prepare all their equipment to move, that already takes longer than a day. Moving the men is meaningless without moving their equipment and that part is not so simple as you think. Its very clear that you are talking just from your own thinking, you have no


C130 said:


> has that ever stopped the two from warring against one another
> does it matter Vietnam doesn't have nukes??? is China going to nuke Vietnam or any country that doesn't bow down to them??
> 
> point is when has being economically/militarily surperior ever stopped the inferior from fighting back??? who doesn't love underdogs.



Talking to these people is like talking to a wall. Basic reasoning and common sense are not part of their attributes.

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## sicsheep

C130 said:


> has that ever stopped the two from warring against one another
> does it matter Vietnam doesn't have nukes??? is China going to nuke Vietnam or any country that doesn't bow down to them??
> 
> point is when has being economically/militarily surperior ever stopped the inferior from fighting back??? who doesn't love underdogs.



Nukes are a force multiplier and a deterrent to protect oneself against invasion , escalation of conflict or overwhelming retaliation, which Vietnam does not have. 

If we are USA, you cant even call your self Mexico.  you will live in our shadows forever, just like in the past 2000 years. 
so yeah, it'd be like saying half of Mexico City wants a war with USA. you get the picture? 

USA GDP 2013: 
16.8 Trillion 

China GDP 2013 
9.24 Trillion 

Mexico GDP, 
1.28 Trillion 

Vietnam GDP 2013
171.4 Billion


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## Nike

sincity said:


> In compare to the India population, India as poor as Pakistan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India over 1 billions in population, their GDP is bigger than Pakistan because the size of their population and not because India is richer.


 
clearly you said this thing



sincity said:


> India economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan, your comparison is moot.



clearly you said India economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan, not their income per-capita


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## C130

sicsheep said:


> Nukes are a force multiplier and a deterrent to protect oneself against invasion , escalation of conflict or overwhelming retaliation, which Vietnam does not have.
> 
> If we are USA, you cant even call your self Mexico.  you will live in our shadows forever, just like in the past 2000 years.
> so yeah, it'd be like saying half of Mexico City wants a war with USA. you get the picture?
> 
> USA GDP 2013:
> 16.8 Trillion
> 
> China GDP 2013
> 9.24 Trillion
> 
> Mexico GDP,
> 1.28 Trillion
> 
> Vietnam GDP 2013
> 171.4 Billion



doesn't matter.
we have good relations with our neigbhors Mexico/Canada. can't say the same for China.

guerrilla and asymmetrical warfare mate, it kinda takes the fight out of any force multipliers. 

China is still untested.

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## sincity

Carlosa said:


> Its not so simple, first they have to prepare to move and prepare *all their equipment to move, that already takes longer than a day. Moving the men is meaningless without moving their equipment and that part is not so simple as you think. Its very clear that you are talking just from your own thinking, you have no *
> 
> 
> Talking to these people is like talking to a wall. Basic reasoning and common sense are not part of their attributes.







When China intend to invade Vietnam, you think they don't plan ahead and slowly moving their heavy equipment close to the border within China territory in month ahead to prepare for the assault?



madokafc said:


> clearly you said this thing
> 
> 
> 
> clearly you said India economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan, not their income per-capita





Income per capita define how large or small 1 nation economy, with India population over 1 billions India economy isn't much bigger than Pakistan to compare the size of Pakistan population, both nations still very poor.


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## sicsheep

C130 said:


> doesn't matter.
> we have good relations with our neigbhors Mexico/Canada. can't say the same for China.
> 
> guerrilla and asymmetrical warfare mate, it kinda takes the fight out of any force multipliers.
> 
> China is still untested.


Lol haha haha good relations? US Mexico boarding is 100 times more intense than China Vietnam boarders counting SC, 

Have you been watching the news lately?

guerrilla and asymmetrical only works if we want to occupy the land, we can destroy every major military installation of VN without even crossing the boarder. We will see how guerrilla fight off drones and IRBM and cruise missiles.


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## C130

sicsheep said:


> Lol haha haha good relations? US Mexico boarding is 100 times more intense than China Vietnam boarders counting SC,
> 
> Have you been watching the news lately?
> 
> guerrilla and asymmetrical only works if we want to occupy the land, we can destroy every major military installation of VN without even crossing the boarder. We will see how guerrilla fight off drones and IRBM and cruise missiles.



good relations with the country not just what's happening at the border.

good luck trying to killing Vietcong hiding under the thick foliage. you better have a million tonnes of napalm and herbicide, because drones,IRBM, cruise missiles isn't going to cut it.

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## sicsheep

C130 said:


> good relations with the country not just what's happening at the border.
> 
> good luck trying to killing Vietcong hiding under the thick foliage. you better have a million tonnes of napalm and herbicide, because drones,IRBM, cruise missiles isn't going to cut it.



OK so Vietcong going to swim to spartly right? I hope they can hide runways and ports and power plants as well as they hide people lol


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## sincity

C130 said:


> good relations with the country not just what's happening at the border.
> 
> good luck trying to killing Vietcong hiding under the thick foliage. you better have a million tonnes of napalm and herbicide, because drones,IRBM, cruise missiles isn't going to cut it.





China can inflict heavy damage to northern Vietnam without a prolong drag out war. A complete destruction of northern Vietnam with heavy bombardment and firing off missiles from China.


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## Viet

sincity said:


> China can inflict heavy damage to northern Vietnam without a prolong drag out war. A complete destruction of northern Vietnam with heavy bombardment and firing off missiles from China.


and you assume we sit idle and enjoy the fireworks, not to inflict damage to chinese cities?



sicsheep said:


> Lol haha haha good relations? US Mexico boarding is 100 times more intense than China Vietnam boarders counting SC,
> 
> Have you been watching the news lately?
> 
> guerrilla and *asymmetrical *only works if we want to occupy the land, we can destroy every major military installation of VN without even crossing the boarder. We will see how guerrilla fight off drones and IRBM and cruise missiles.


appears to me you and many of your comrades are the new zombies of asia seeking blood. too bad, the japanese had not spanked you harder. perhaps next time?

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## sincity

Viet said:


> and you assume we sit idle and enjoy the fireworks, not to inflict damage to chinese cities?
> 
> 
> appears to me you and many of your comrades are the new zombies of asia seeking blood. too bad, the japanese had not spanked you harder. perhaps next time?




I'm not assuming because Vietnam vintage military don't stand a chance against China. Vietnam military better than the Taliban but not much better than most of other nations.


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## Viet

sincity said:


> I'm not assuming because Vietnam vintage military don't stand a chance against China. Vietnam military better than the Taliban but not much better than most of other nations.


in theory, we never have a chance against china, but the victories over the Han, Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing and Deng prove the opposition. everytime you had more men, more weapons, more everything, but you lost. And you know what? our "vintage" military can add Xi as loser into the list at the next encounter.

the Mongol hordes conquered China and made you to slaves, while their army got being annihilated in Vietnam. forgotten? Winning a war is more than just counting numbers, number of men and weapons. Wake up!

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its not so simple, first they have to prepare to move and prepare all their equipment to move, that already takes longer than a day. Moving the men is meaningless without moving their equipment and that part is not so simple as you think. Its very clear that you are talking just from your own thinking, you have no
> 
> 
> Talking to these people is like talking to a wall. Basic reasoning and common sense are not part of their attributes.


yes, talking to chinese is like talking to a wall. they tend to masturbate by bragging how powerful and rich they are and how weak and poor we are. they conclude: it is meaningless to stand up and fight. we should surrender and give everything what we possess to them. china is a superpower, chinese are supermen, chinese weapons are top, chinese are    

they are better than clowns in circus.

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## ChineseTiger1986

C130 said:


> you know by your standards you could apply the Vietnam/China thing to Pakistan/India, but do you think fellow Pakistan members care about how much bigger India economy is?? are they going to except defeat and become a dog??? just cause Indian economy is bigger and has a larger military??
> 
> come on now.



India's economy is only 6 times bigger than that of Pakistan, while China's economy is over 50 times bigger than that of Vietnam.

India and Pakistan can mutually destroy each other with its nuclear weapons, but can Vietnam conduct a MAD with China?

Vietnam is always a peanut compared to us, and we are simply preferring to toy with them.


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> India's economy is only 6 times bigger than that of Pakistan, while China's economy is over 50 times bigger than that of Vietnam.
> 
> India and Pakistan can mutually destroy each other with its nuclear weapons, but can Vietnam conduct a MAD with China?
> 
> Vietnam is always a peanut compared to us, and we are simply preferring to toy with them.



So, instead of fighting a war, nations just need compare their economies to know who is the winner? 
Why you did not do the same in 1979 instead of you failed miserably?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> So, instead of fighting a war, nations just need compare their economies to know who is the winner?
> Why you did not do the same in 1979 instead of you failed miserably?
> View attachment 53812



Even John McCain was your POW, but does this mean that the US lost the war against you? LMAO


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even John McCain was your POW, but does this mean that the US lost the war against you? LMAO


If you cannot get your goals but big damages, you lose.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> If you cannot get your goals but big damages, you lose.



Our goal was achieved, since we prevented you to annex the entire Indochina.

You guys hate China gut because we have shattered your big power dream.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Our goal was achieved, since we prevented you to annex the entire Indochina.
> 
> You guys hate China gut because we have shattered your big power dream.



No, at that time our main army still stayed in Cambodia to chase Khmer Rouge, a Chinese ally.
We had no other goals beside only goal that is overthrowing the Khmer Rouge, a chinese ally, set up a new government who pro-Vietnam.


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## sicsheep

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> So, instead of fighting a war, nations just need compare their economies to know who is the winner?
> Why you did not do the same in 1979 instead of you failed miserably?
> View attachment 53812


lol we burn down your north country side  sure look like a victory for me


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## poopnose456

"Sure looks like Victory to me"


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## sicsheep




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## sicsheep

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> So, instead of fighting a war, nations just need compare their economies to know who is the winner?
> Why you did not do the same in 1979 instead of you failed miserably?
> View attachment 53812



yes we got spanked so hard, they surrendered to China AHHAAHA , running to Japanese daddy wont save you.


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## World Citizen

sincity said:


> Vietnamese military still used vintage US weapons in the 60's?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China move their troop within China, how it's possible for them to move millions troops in 2 days? Cargo plane, bus, civilian plane, buses, transport trucks? Aren't these transport system couldn't move millions troop in 1 days?



sure, the Chinese can move millions of troops with ...... their mouth , 1 million here, 2 million there ... etc .. )

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## sincity

World Citizen said:


> sure, the Chinese can move millions of troops with ...... their mouth , 1 million here, 2 million there ... etc .. )





How did US move 100k troop to Middle East? By their mouth too? The fack you babbling on?


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## Nike

US need more than week or several weeks to moving their hundred thousands troops into Iraqi and Kuwaiti border areas in Gulf War, not a day or two days. Moving logistics is not as simple as doing cheats on a game. That's why US has so many military bases around the world to made them more easier to moving and piling up their logistics. It is bullshit if someone said China can mobilized their 2 million armies in day or two days after the second when conflict with Vietnam erupted. 

My reasons is,
First, China army is just accounting for around two million ground troops, and they had been distributed according to the level of threat inside or around Chinese border. To moving two millions of their ground troops around Vietnam border area surely is a stupid moves, surely they will left another area unguarded

Second, Chinese until know not going to start their mobilization of reserve pools, and mobilizing reservist is not an easy feats can be done in matter of days. 

Third, Xichuan earthquakes can giving you a view and fine example about Chinese capabilities to mobilizing their troops and i doubt if Chinese can moving their so called two millions army into Vietnam border just in matter of a day or two days. 

And Fourth, any Chinese units (especially peoples who came from Northern and western military area) need to acclimated and suit themselves into Vietnam terrain and climates, thus way they need more logistics and training to do that than the "Southern units". The US do that in the Gulf war, and spent more than months for training and acclimatization before the actual combats started.

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## sincity

1st no nation start a war without planning ahead of time, notice have to send to soldier weeks or months to prepare for deployment, soldier have to report to the military base to pack up and move out to their destination. When the troop already report to their base, million Chinese troops transport to the borders in 2 days isn't impossible. you think China doesn't many base within the distance from the borders with Vietnam?


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> US need more than week or several weeks to moving their hundred thousands troops into Iraqi and Kuwaiti border areas in Gulf War, not a day or two days. Moving logistics is not as simple as doing cheats on a game. That's why US has so many military bases around the world to made them more easier to moving and piling up their logistics. It is bullshit if someone said China can mobilized their 2 million armies in day or two days after the second when conflict with Vietnam erupted.
> 
> My reasons is,
> First, China army is just accounting for around two million ground troops, and they had been distributed according to the level of threat inside or around Chinese border. To moving two millions of their ground troops around Vietnam border area surely is a stupid moves, surely they will left another area unguarded
> 
> Second, Chinese until know not going to start their mobilization of reserve pools, and mobilizing reservist is not an easy feats can be done in matter of days.
> 
> Third, Xichuan earthquakes can giving you a view and fine example about Chinese capabilities to mobilizing their troops and i doubt if Chinese can moving their so called two millions army into Vietnam border just in matter of a day or two days.
> 
> And Fourth, any Chinese units (especially peoples who came from Northern and western military area) need to acclimated and suit themselves into Vietnam terrain and climates, thus way they need more logistics and training to do that than the "Southern units". The US do that in the Gulf war, and spent more than months for training and acclimatization before the actual combats started.



Very good explanations, you gave all the right answers, but as usual, it falls on deaf ears. The chinese trolls don't accept anything that doesn't fit into their distorted picture of reality. That's why I always say that talking to these chinese trolls is like talking to a wall. Big waste of time!!!!


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## NiceGuy

sincity said:


> 1st no nation start a war without planning ahead of time, notice have to send to soldier weeks or months to prepare for deployment, soldier have to report to the military base to pack up and move out to their destination. When the troop already report to their base, million Chinese troops transport to the borders in 2 days isn't impossible. you think China doesn't many base within the distance from the borders with Vietnam?


Then , pls tell me why your new soldiers who must pay up to $ 16,000 to join the army ( in order to get the good salary not to fight ) want to die in war with VN ??


----------



## FairAndUnbiased

Carlosa said:


> Very good explanations, you gave all the right answers, but as usual, it falls on deaf ears. The chinese trolls don't accept anything that doesn't fit into their distorted picture of reality. That's why I always say that talking to these chinese trolls is like talking to a wall. Big waste of time!!!!



I'm here to educate you. The reason you think it is trolling is because you do not understand the sophisticated answers. It is like me talking about electron-phonon interaction effects on semiconductors, and a 5 year old laughs and says, "hahaha, he said phony interactions!"


----------



## Viet

That news may be of interest for our chinese friends?

VN President Sang on September 16 received the new appointed Lao Defence Minister and Senior Lieutenant General Sengnuon Saynhalat. the former army chief Phichit died in a "mysterious" plan crash in May.





_Douangchay Phichit in 2004. Photo: AP_





_Rescue workers search the air force plane crash site in Xiangkhouang province, Laos. Photograph: Reuters_

besides the rtheroric, I understand the new man vows to be absolutely loyal to Vietnam. should the dispute escalate to a armed confrontation with China, we have Lao armed forces on our side.





_State President Truong Tan Sang (R) greets Lao Defence Minister in Hanoi. Photograph. VOV_


----------



## sicsheep

madokafc said:


> US need more than week or several weeks to moving their hundred thousands troops into Iraqi and Kuwaiti border areas in Gulf War, not a day or two days. Moving logistics is not as simple as doing cheats on a game. That's why US has so many military bases around the world to made them more easier to moving and piling up their logistics. It is bullshit if someone said China can mobilized their 2 million armies in day or two days after the second when conflict with Vietnam erupted.
> 
> My reasons is,
> First, China army is just accounting for around two million ground troops, and they had been distributed according to the level of threat inside or around Chinese border. To moving two millions of their ground troops around Vietnam border area surely is a stupid moves, surely they will left another area unguarded
> 
> Second, Chinese until know not going to start their mobilization of reserve pools, and mobilizing reservist is not an easy feats can be done in matter of days.
> 
> Third, Xichuan earthquakes can giving you a view and fine example about Chinese capabilities to mobilizing their troops and i doubt if Chinese can moving their so called two millions army into Vietnam border just in matter of a day or two days.
> 
> And Fourth, any Chinese units (especially peoples who came from Northern and western military area) need to acclimated and suit themselves into Vietnam terrain and climates, thus way they need more logistics and training to do that than the "Southern units". The US do that in the Gulf war, and spent more than months for training and acclimatization before the actual combats started.



1, First i said one million not two million
2, your comparison with the US in first gulf war is flawed, US moved troops across the Atlantic during desert shield, it took weeks, but at the start of Desert storm it took somewhat 4 days to mobilize from Saudi boarder, and that is in a foreign country, the only way is to go by highway/desert or air transport. The comparison you should have made is maybe if US mobilized thier Amry and National Guard in Texas. 
3. During the sichuan earthquakes, all roads around the area were collapsed, there were no way in or out, even supplies had to be air dropped in, so again I dont know what you are talking about. 




4, check this map, we got 4 army group stationed within southern boarder already. 





again let me know why cant we move one million within 1 -2 days



Viet said:


> President Sang on September 16 received the new appointed Lao Defence Minister and Senior Lieutenant General Sengnuon Saynhalat. the former army chief Phichit died in a "mysterious" plan crash in May.
> 
> besides the rtheroric, I understand the new man vows to be absolutely loyal to Vietnam. should the dispute escalate to a armed confrontation with China, we have Lao armed forces on our side.
> 
> View attachment 55312



shit, they got 30 main battle tanks, we better start running....


----------



## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> I'm here to educate you. The reason you think it is trolling is because you do not understand the sophisticated answers. It is like me talking about electron-phonon interaction effects on semiconductors, and a 5 year old laughs and says, "hahaha, he said phony interactions!"



The ones that need education are your han brothers.


----------



## Viet

sicsheep said:


> shit, they got 30 main battle tanks, we better start running....


you don´t understand the strategic importance of Laos. It is not about the number of tanks and troops Laos can contribute, but the most important asset is they can provide us with strategic depth and resources.

the French and Americans lost the wars because they failed to cut off supply lines and troop movements between Laos to Vietnam. the French army created the fortress Dien Bien Phu midst in the jungle in Northern Vietnam in an attempt to cut off the supply line to Laos. That led to the decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu (1954). the Vietnamese victory ended the french colonisation in Indochina. so enough a lesson for you today


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## sincity

Viet said:


> you don´t understand the strategic importance of Laos. they can provide us with strategic depth and resources.
> the French and Americans lost the wars because they failed to cut off supply lines and troop movements between Laos to Vietnam.






Lao also landlocked neighbor with China, you think Lao will risk a war with China to support Vietnam against China? At best Lao will stay neutral or worse allow China to use their country to attack Vietnam with China pay billions of dollars to Lao as the compensation.


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## billyong

Viet said:


> you don´t understand the strategic importance of Laos. It is not about the number of tanks and troops Laos can contribute, but the most important asset is they can provide us with strategic depth and resources.
> 
> the French and Americans lost the wars because they failed to cut off supply lines and troop movements between Laos to Vietnam. the French army created the fortress Dien Bien Phu midst in the jungle in Northern Vietnam in an attempt to cut off the supply line to Laos. That led to the decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu (1954). the Vietnamese victory ended the french colonisation in Indochina.



Source: Vietnam Military News & Discussion | Page 155
You sound like your cities and factories have legs that can run into LAO's territory or LAO's *17.66 billion GDP *can support your country?? So educated me~ once your cities and factories are bombed to ground.. then what you gona do?? fight in jungle like 1960? ?


----------



## sincity

billyong said:


> Source: Vietnam Military News & Discussion | Page 155
> You sound like your cities and factories have legs that can run into LAO's territory or LAO's *17.66 billion GDP *can support your country?? So educated me~ once your cities and factories are bombed to ground.. then what you gona do?? fight in jungle like 1960? ?






No one hate money, China show billions US dollars to Lao government, Lao loyalty will follow where the money at.


----------



## Viet

sincity said:


> Lao also landlocked neighbor with China, you think Lao will risk a war with China to support Vietnam against China? At best Lao will stay neutral or worse allow China to use their country to attack Vietnam with China pay billions of dollars to Lao as the compensation.


we control the armies of Laos and Cambodia. your billions of yuan or dollar are worthless.



billyong said:


> Source: Vietnam Military News & Discussion | Page 155
> You sound like your cities and factories have legs that can run into LAO's territory or LAO's *17.66 billion GDP *can support your country?? So educated me~ once your cities and factories are bombed to ground.. then what you gona do?? fight in jungle like 1960? ?


targeting civilians and bombing our cities and factories? are you nuts?
I wonder since when you have a dream to behave like a facist nation.


----------



## sicsheep

Viet said:


> you don´t understand the strategic importance of Laos. they can provide us with strategic depth and resources.
> the French and Americans lost the wars because they failed to cut off supply lines and troop movements between Laos to Vietnam.



OK, seriously man, in the event of another sino-Vietnamese war, do you think Laos would support Vietnam and be at de facto state of war with China? Do you think Vietnam has what it takes to defend Laos against China?


Viet said:


> you don´t understand the strategic importance of Laos. It is not about the number of tanks and troops Laos can contribute, but the most important asset is they can provide us with strategic depth and resources.
> 
> the French and Americans lost the wars because they failed to cut off supply lines and troop movements between Laos to Vietnam. the French army created the fortress Dien Bien Phu midst in the jungle in Northern Vietnam in an attempt to cut off the supply line to Laos. That led to the decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu (1954). the Vietnamese victory ended the french colonisation in Indochina.
> 
> View attachment 55448
> 
> 
> View attachment 55450
> 
> 
> View attachment 55451
> 
> 
> View attachment 55454
> 
> 
> View attachment 55458
> 
> 
> View attachment 55462
> 
> 
> View attachment 55461
> 
> 
> View attachment 55459
> 
> 
> View attachment 55460



You keep thinking like 40 years ago, we do not want to occupy Vietnam, when we can disarm you with push of a few buttons, there is no need to march into vietnam, we can flatten Hanoi with just our artillery. sure I mean you can run to Laos, but then what? you gonna swim back to fight us at Xisha islands? 

French had supply line in Laos, but does that has any thing to do with what we are talking about? You mean if war happen between China and Vietnam, we will also run supply from LAOS? please explain.


----------



## sincity

Viet said:


> we control the armies of Laos and Cambodia. your billions of yuan or dollar are worthless.




In 2012 Cambodia government criticized Vietnam for stirred up trouble in the region after Cambodia got billions dollars soft loan from China. They side with China to self serve Cambodia interest. Money talk and bullshit walk, even Japan prime minister had to change his hard line rhetoric again because Japan need China market, Abe want to mend tides with China.


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## sicsheep

Viet said:


> we control the armies of Laos and Cambodia. your billions of yuan or dollar are worthless.
> 
> 
> targeting civilians and bombing our cities and factories? are you nuts?
> I wonder since when you have a dream to behave like a facist nation.



facist nation? you should check out how US bombed Iraq during both gulf wars, we will try to give you the whole package.

Gulf War air campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Viet

sicsheep said:


> OK, seriously man, in the event of another sino-Vietnamese war, do you think Laos would support Vietnam and be at de facto state of war with China? Do you think Vietnam has what it takes to defend Laos against China?


Laos was our ally in the last Sino-VN war. and I bet they will be again. If you start an invasion of Laos, we will send troops there to defend.


sicsheep said:


> You keep thinking like 40 years ago, we do not want to occupy Vietnam, when we can disarm you with push of a few buttons, there is no need to march into vietnam, we can flatten Hanoi with just our artillery. sure I mean you can run to Laos, but then what? you gonna swim back to fight us at Xisha islands?
> 
> French had supply line in Laos, but does that has any thing to do with what we are talking about? You mean if war happen between China and Vietnam, we will also run supply from LAOS? please explain.


you are delusional. it takes more than just firing missiles into Vietnam to win the next war. we are currently building up a missile shield, including with s-300 and soon s-400. not all missiles will reach your targets. war is not a video game you play on your smart phone. and don´t think we will sit idle doing nothing. as soon as you fire the first missile, we will sign military defence treaties with America and Japan and hit back.

Laos is basically a rich country because it has a lot of natural resources. we have invested a lot of money there.


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## billyong

Viet said:


> targeting civilians and bombing our cities and factories? are you nuts?


Are you joking?? How old you?? You think a war against P5 is some kind kids game for you? You seriously think that you can still enjoy your toys in city?? 
NO! Accounting to uncle SAM air strike 101! The first thing that goes down along with your military targets are your Bridges, Power Plant/Grid, Airport, Water Supply, Highway Choke point, Train station, ......(The list goes on and on) 
And your factories will work without power???


----------



## sicsheep

Viet said:


> Laos was our ally in the last Sino-VN war. and I bet they will be again. If you start an invasion of Laos, we will send troops there to defend.
> 
> you are delusional. it takes more than just firing missiles into Vietnam to win the next war. we are currently building up a missile shield, including with s-300 and soon s-400. war is not a video game you play on your smart phone. and don´t think we will sit idle doing nothing. as soon as you fire the first missile, we will sign military defence treaties with America and Japan and hit back.
> 
> Laos is basically a rich country because it has a lot of natural resources. we have invested a lot of money there.



you have 2 set of s-300, nice missile shield you got there bro. 
you think if US and Japan will declare war on China to protect Vietnam, you are the one that's delusional


----------



## Viet

billyong said:


> Are you joking?? How old you?? You think a war against P5 is some kind kids game for you? You seriously think that you can still enjoy your toys in city??
> NO! Accounting to uncle SAM air strike 101! The first thing that goes down along with your military targets are your Bridges, Power Plant/Grid, Airport, Water Supply, Highway Choke point, Train station, ......(The list goes on and on)
> And your factories will work without power???


you talk as if China has become a fascist nation. Yes, targeting civil targets is a war crime.
do you want China to become a war criminal?


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## sicsheep

Viet said:


> you talk as if China has become a fascist nation. Yes, targeting civil targets is a war crime.
> do you want China to become a war criminal?


I don't see US pilots /generals standing trial for the any war crimes, Saddam got hanged tho.


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## billyong

Viet said:


> you are delusional. it takes more than just firing missiles into Vietnam to win the next war. we are currently building up a missile shield, including with s-300 and soon s-400.
> as soon as you fire the first missile, we will sign military defence treaties with America and Japan and hit back.


Your 72 s-300 missiles will magically stop the strike???China have thousands missiles that can strike your capital!

Viet will "sign military defence treaties with America and Japan and hit back."???!!!
WTF! Am I even reading this? Do you have delusional disorder??What will make you think that America will protect a communist state like Vietnam?? What will US get out of to fight for you?? What can you offer??
No! Nothing! The reality is that Vietnam don't even worse for US President to make a official visit....
*Search AND Read this! 
US President Obama won’t visit Vietnam unless he gets something out of it.*


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## Viet

sicsheep said:


> you have 2 set of s-300, nice missile shield you got there bro.


4 more on order, and a number of s-400 launchers coming as soon as Russia exports them in 1-2 years.


sicsheep said:


> you think if US and Japan will declare war on China to protect Vietnam, you are the one that's delusional


93% of japanese people hate you, they wish someone spanking you hard.






100% of americans hate you, because they hate china in general.



billyong said:


> Your 72 s-300 missiles will magically stop the strike???China have thousands missiles that can strike your capital!
> 
> Viet will "sign military defence treaties with America and Japan and hit back."???!!!
> WTF! Am I even reading this? Do you have delusional disorder??What will make you think that America will protect a communist state like Vietnam?? What will US get out of to fight for you?? What can you offer??
> No! Nothing! The reality is that Vietnam don't even worse for US President to make a official visit....
> *Search AND Read this!
> US President Obama won’t visit Vietnam unless he gets something out of it.*


we need nuclear weapons to stop your hostile attitude


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## sicsheep

[quote="Viet, post: 6185966, member: 140273"
we need nuclear weapons to stop your hostile attitude [/quote]

you need a lot of things, keep dreaming , even North Korean have Nukes now, nuff said. 

government does not start war based on public opinions, they don't want to start a war to claim the island, you think they will go to war over Vietnam? you country is probably worth less than an island anyways.


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## Viet

sincity said:


> No one hate money, China show billions US dollars to Lao government, Lao loyalty will follow where the money at.


just give your money to Laos as yesterday another chinese poster proposes to give warships to Indonesia to buy loyalty.
you appear to believe you can buy everything with money.



sicsheep said:


> you need a lot of things, keep dreaming , even North Korean have Nukes now, nuff said.
> 
> government does not start war based on public opinions, they don't want to start a war to claim the island, you think they will go to war over Vietnam? *you country is probably worth less than an island anyways*.


I can´t force you to think reasonable. but the fact is we are a country blessed with rich natural resources. giving you an example: Titanium. we have titanium reserves of over 650 million tons, with about 1.2 million tons produced annually. So this treasury alone is worth of $4 trillions.

Vietnam's titanium reserves hit over 650 mln tons---ASEAN---China Center


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## Nike

sicsheep said:


> 1, First i said one million not two million
> 2, your comparison with the US in first gulf war is flawed, US moved troops across the Atlantic during desert shield, it took weeks, but at the start of Desert storm it took somewhat 4 days to mobilize from Saudi boarder, and that is in a foreign country, the only way is to go by highway/desert or air transport. The comparison you should have made is maybe if US mobilized thier Amry and National Guard in Texas.
> 3. During the sichuan earthquakes, all roads around the area were collapsed, there were no way in or out, even supplies had to be air dropped in, so again I dont know what you are talking about.
> View attachment 55318
> 
> 4, check this map, we got 4 army group stationed within southern boarder already.
> View attachment 55319
> 
> 
> again let me know why cant we move one million within 1 -2 days
> 
> 
> 
> shit, they got 30 main battle tanks, we better start running....



yeah China army is the best, i am better surrender before one million of them appearing in front of my house tomorrow morning but hey can you spare me from your jokes first

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## Viet

This news may be of interest for some readers 

Russia is ready to export tactical balistic missile Iskander-E to friendly countries, including Vietnam, excluding China.
Iskander is Russia’s most powerful missile strike systems: conventional warhead, stealth, range 280km, accuracy 2m, speed mach 7, able to hit a wide range of targets, from enemy military units to underground command centers.

the final decision of export the missile is made by the president and the government of Russia.

Russia’s Iskander-E Missile System Ready for Deliveries to Other Countries | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti
Việt Nam có thể mua được 'kẻ hủy diệt' Iskander - Quân sự - Tin Ngắn














_



_


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## William Hung

madokafc said:


> i am better surrender before one million of them appearing in front of my house tomorrow morning



Madokafc, If I appear in front of your house tomorrow morning, will you surrender your heart to me?? 








Viet said:


> This news may be of interest for some readers
> 
> Russia is ready to export tactical balistic missile Iskander-E to friendly countries, including Vietnam, excluding China.
> Iskander is Russia’s most powerful missile strike systems: conventional warhead, stealth, range 280km, accuracy 2m, speed mach 7, able to hit a wide range of targets, from enemy military units to underground command centers.
> 
> the final decision of export the missile is made by the president and the government of Russia.
> 
> Russia’s Iskander-E Missile System Ready for Deliveries to Other Countries | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti
> Việt Nam có thể mua được 'kẻ hủy diệt' Iskander - Quân sự - Tin Ngắn
> 
> View attachment 56278
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 56279
> 
> 
> 
> _
> View attachment 56280
> _
> 
> 
> View attachment 56281



Iskander-E is nice but 280km is too short to be a real threat to China. You need lots of +1000km range ballistic missiles in order to have an arsenal that will deter China.


----------



## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Madokafc, If I appear in front of your house tomorrow morning, will you surrender your heart to me??
> 
> View attachment 56312
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iskander-E is nice but 280km is too short to be a real threat to China. You need lots of +1000km range ballistic missiles in order to have an arsenal that will deter China.



There are a few versions of Iskander for export, 280 km range for countries that signed the missile limitation treaty (VN did not) and the 500 km range as well as the extended range Iskander with a 2000 km range that Russia already said it will export to qualifying countries. I have reliable information that the sale to VN was already approved (but not announced yet at the request of Vietnam) and that vietnamese personal is presently training in Russia with those missiles.

Is 2000 km enough for you?

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Iskander-E is nice but 280km is too short to be a real threat to China. You need lots of +1000km range ballistic missiles in order to have an arsenal that will deter China.


iskander-e is much more powerful than our scud-b in the inventory. we need a bit of time for developing such missiles including long range toys to hit distant targets in china. give us some time.



Carlosa said:


> There are a few versions of Iskander for export, 280 km range for countries that signed the missile limitation treaty (VN did not) and the 500 km range as well as the extended range Iskander with a 2000 km range that Russia already said it will export to qualifying countries. I have reliable information that the sale to VN was already approved (but not announced yet at the request of Vietnam) and that vietnamese personal is presently training in Russia with those missiles.
> 
> Is 2000 km enough for you?


well, 2,000km is about the distance Hanoi-Shanghai. I think that is nice.


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> There are a few versions of Iskander for export, 280 km range for countries that signed the missile limitation treaty (VN did not) and the 500 km range as well as the extended range Iskander with a 2000 km range that Russia already said it will export to qualifying countries. I have reliable information that the sale to VN was already approved (but not announced yet at the request of Vietnam) and that vietnamese personal is presently training in Russia with those missiles.
> 
> Is 2000 km enough for you?



Doesn't matter If VN is not a member of MTCR. Russia is a member of MTCR and as I understand, it means that Russia has agreed not to export missiles exceeding 300km.

The export version of Iskander has a range of 280km only. Can you give the source that say that they will export the 2000km version?


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> iskander-e is much more powerful than our scud-b in the inventory. we need a bit of time for developing such missiles including long range toys to hit distant targets in china. give us some time.
> 
> 
> well, 2,000km is about the distance Hanoi-Shanghai. I think that is nice.



VN no longer have Scud B, it has been upgraded to an upgraded "C" version with a range of 500-550 km with improved accuracy (CEP of 50 meters) because of help from North Korea and there is also another indigenous missile with a range of up to 1500 km (it was shown on VN television) . I believe its a 2 stage missile and it uses solid fuel. VN produces the solid fuel by the way.

The Iskander is the king anyway and if VN can pick up some of that technology it will be a big plus.



Black Flag said:


> Doesn't matter If VN is not a member of MTCR. Russia is a member of MTCR and as I understand, it means that Russia has agreed not to export missiles exceeding 300km.
> 
> The export version of Iskander has a range of 280km only. Can you give the source that say that they will export the 2000km version?



I got the info from a Russian article, I don't know if I saved it, I'll look tomorrow.

My source told me that Russia is delivering the Iskanders with the full range, Russia is not concerned with the treaty limitations for Vietnam (but of course it will never be announced like that).

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## sicsheep

Viet said:


> This news may be of interest for some readers
> 
> Russia is ready to export tactical balistic missile Iskander-E to friendly countries, including Vietnam, excluding China.
> Iskander is Russia’s most powerful missile strike systems: conventional warhead, stealth, range 280km, accuracy 2m, speed mach 7, able to hit a wide range of targets, from enemy military units to underground command centers.
> 
> the final decision of export the missile is made by the president and the government of Russia.
> 
> Russia’s Iskander-E Missile System Ready for Deliveries to Other Countries | Military & Intelligence | RIA Novosti
> Việt Nam có thể mua được 'kẻ hủy diệt' Iskander - Quân sự - Tin Ngắn
> 
> View attachment 56278
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 56279
> 
> 
> 
> _
> View attachment 56280
> _
> 
> 
> View attachment 56281




1, Don't see Vietnam mentioned in the article even, you have really good imagination. '
2, The export is still not approved


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## Carlosa

sicsheep said:


> 1, Don't see Vietnam mentioned in the article even, you have really good imagination. '
> 2, The export is still not approved



Didn't I say that it was not announced at the request of Vietnam?
If you know anything about the VPA, you would know that this is typical of them, many contracts are never announced.


----------



## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> Doesn't matter If VN is not a member of MTCR. Russia is a member of MTCR and as I understand, it means that Russia has agreed not to export missiles exceeding 300km.
> 
> The export version of Iskander has a range of 280km only. Can you give the source that say that they will export the 2000km version?


 Russia can sell nuke capable ballistic missile Shaddock with range of 550km to VN, then why not some more good missile with the range over 300km ??


----------



## sicsheep

Carlosa said:


> Didn't I said that it was not announced at the request of Vietnam?
> If you know anything about the VPA, you would know that this is typical of them, many contracts are never announced.



Ok please go on discussing your imaginary missile, btw our guided MLRS has a range of 400km



Carlosa said:


> VN no longer have Scud B, it has been upgraded to an upgraded "C" version with a range of 500-550 km with improved accuracy (CEP of 50 meters)



WHERE do you get your facts? 

"SCUD C, Its range was brought up to 500–600 km, but at the cost of a greatly reduced accuracy and warhead size"


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## Carlosa

sicsheep said:


> Ok please go on discussing your imaginary missile, btw our guided MLRS has a range of 400km
> 
> 
> 
> WHERE do you get your facts?
> 
> "SCUD C, Its range was brought up to 500–600 km, but at the cost of a greatly reduced accuracy and warhead size"



Regarding the imaginary missile, it was shown by the military in a news TV program several years ago.

I already said the upgraded vietnamese scud C was upgraded with help from north korea with accuracy of a CEP of 50 meters, it has nothing to do with the Soviet Scud C at this point, so bringing up wikipedia info is not relevant here.

I already said, from "sources", which is the only way to get that type of information from Vietnam since Vietnam doesn't usually reveal anything officially.. That's how it works in Vietnam and the vietnamese here know it. 
I posted the information for the sake of the vietnamese here. I couldn't care less about your need for sources or proof and I don't recall asking you about your MLRS.



sicsheep said:


> 1, Don't see Vietnam mentioned in the article even, you have really good imagination. '
> 2, The export is still not approved



My information has nothing to do with that article.

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## sicsheep

Carlosa said:


> Regarding the imaginary missile, it was shown by the military in a news TV program several years ago.
> 
> I already said the upgraded vietnamese scud C was upgraded with help from north korea with accuracy of a CEP of 50 meters, it has nothing to do with the Soviet Scud C at this point, so bringing up wikipedia info is not relevant here.
> 
> I already said, from "sources", which is the only way to get that type of information from Vietnam since Vietnam doesn't usually reveal anything officially.. That's how it works in Vietnam and the vietnamese here know it.
> I posted the information for the sake of the vietnamese here. I couldn't care less about your need for sources or proof and I don't recall asking you about your MLRS.
> 
> My information has nothing to do with that article.



OK please keep discussing imaginary missiles of Vietnam. Chinese don't release official numbers on weapons either, but there are tons of foreign articles about the weapons' capabilities. 
You just dream up weapon deals and numbers. that is all. 
I have "sources" say Trương Tấn Sang is Chinese spy.

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## Carlosa

sicsheep said:


> OK please keep discussing imaginary missiles of Vietnam. Chinese don't release official numbers on weapons either, but there are tons of foreign articles about the weapons' capabilities.
> You just dream up weapon deals and numbers. that is all.
> I have "sources" say Trương Tấn Sang is Chinese spy.



There is freedom of speech here, so you are entitled to think whatever you want, it does not change reality anyway and again, I couldn't care less about your opinions and needs.

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## NiceGuy

sicsheep said:


> Ok please go on discussing your imaginary missile, btw our guided MLRS has a range of 400km
> 
> 
> 
> WHERE do you get your facts?
> 
> "SCUD C, Its range was brought up to 500–600 km, but at the cost of a greatly reduced accuracy and warhead size"


Some old news for u abt our Scud.

*Vietnam Stocking Up 'SCUDS'*

14 April 1999

Vietnam has obtained a quantity of surface-to-surface missiles (SSMs) from North Korea to supplement its inventory of Russian-made SS-1 'Scud B' SSMs, Asian-based intelligence sources have revealed to Jane's Defence Weekly.

The new SSMs are described as "modified Scuds", but neither the specific designation nor the quantity is known. The phrasing suggests they may be of the 'Scud C' variant, which North Korea began to develop in 1984.



North Korea's Scud C / Hwasong 6 (photo : Geocities)


Vietnamese Scud B (photo : Hoangsa)

Pyongyang produced 'Scud B' and 'Scud C' SSMs from the late 1980s to early 1990s but production probably ceased when its focus shifted to the more sophisticated Nodong and Taepo Dong ballistic missile programmes.

The 'Scud B' has a range of 300km and a payload of 985kg. The 'Scud C' extends this range to 550km and has a reduced payload of 770kg, along with improved guidance. *The SSM purchase may have been finalised by Vietnamese vice defence minister Nguyen Thoi Bung*, since retired, during his December 1996 visit to Pyongyang. It formed part of a package deal worth an estimated $100 million, probably paid in whole or in part through barter arrangements for commodities such as rice.
DEFENSE STUDIES: Vietnam Stocking Up 'SCUDS'

In the newest test, people see the missile can fly from 700 to 900km.

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## Viet

sicsheep said:


> 1, Don't see Vietnam mentioned in the article even, you have really good imagination. '
> 2, The export is still not approved


1. have you read the vietnamese article I posted. obviously not because you can´t read it 
it says Russia is ready to export the missile to friendly countries, and China does not belong to this category. As Vietnam is considered as a close friend of Russia, we can have it.

2. sure, it is approved as the russian article clearly states it.


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## Viet

_General Thanh received the new appointed Lao defence minister, Senior Lieutenant General Sengnuon Saynhalat in Hanoi on September 16._


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## Viet

_patrol at the Sino-Vietnamese border_





















_Border Guard Academy in Hanoi_


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## Viet

Airbus Defence will deliver C-295 aircraft at the beginning of 2015, and complete in 6 months. the $100m contract includes 3 aircraft, spare parts, warranty and pilot training. the birds are assembled in Sevila (Spain).

the aircraft is ideally for use of transporting troops and equipments to the islands in Spratlys.

Không quân Việt Nam nhận C-295 vào năm 2015 | Tin Việt Nam | Vietnamdefence


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> 1. have you read the vietnamese article I posted. obviously not because you can´t read it
> it says Russia is ready to export the missile to friendly countries, *and China does not belong to this category*. As Vietnam is considered as a close friend of Russia, we can have it.
> 
> 2. sure, it is approved as the russian article clearly states it.



Because we don't need that missile.


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## William Hung

NiceGuy said:


> Russia can sell nuke capable ballistic missile Shaddock with range of 550km to VN, then why not some more good missile with the range over 300km ??



The Soviet transferred you Shaddock missiles since the 80s. Russia only agreed to MTCR from 1995 onwards. Meaning, from 1995, they agreed not to export missiles with range over 300km.



Carlosa said:


> I got the info from a Russian article, I don't know if I saved it, I'll look tomorrow.
> 
> My source told me that Russia is delivering the Iskanders with the full range, Russia is not concerned with the treaty limitations for Vietnam (but of course it will never be announced like that).



People have a right to dismiss your claim if the only evidence you have is "I have reliable source but can't tell you who". 

If you come up with that article, then I'll believe you more. For now, it is senseless. If Russia don't care about the MTCR agreement, then why did they join in the first place? why would they then make a public (in russian) announcement to break that agreement? are they on a mission to discredit themselves in front of the international community?

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## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> The Soviet transferred you Shaddock missiles since the 80s. Russia only agreed to MTCR from 1995 onwards. Meaning, from 1995, they agreed not to export missiles with range over 300km.


Soviet gave Crime to to Ukraine, now Russia take back. Promise can be changed at anytime ,dude.


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## William Hung

NiceGuy said:


> Soviet gave Crime to to Ukraine, now Russia take back. Promise can be changed at anytime ,dude.



I was just pointing out that you don't know what that MTCR limit of 300km mean and when Russia joined MTCR.

You are welcomed to dream and live in your fantasy world where Russia will break the MTCR agreement for your country.

In the oil rig dispute, Russia was completely silent, didn't even announce their "concern" like most country did.

In 1988, Soviets at Cam Ranh Bay sit and watched while your soldiers became target practice.

But you can go ahead and dream that Russia will still come to your rescue while the reality is PRC is more important and stronger partner for Russia.


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## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> I was just pointing out that you don't know what that MTCR limit of 300km mean and when Russia joined MTCR.
> 
> You are welcomed to dream and live in your fantasy world where Russia will break the MTCR agreement for your country.
> 
> In the oil rig dispute, Russia was completely silent, didn't even announce their "concern" like most country did.
> 
> In 1988, Soviets at Cam Ranh Bay sit and watched while your soldiers became target practice.
> 
> But you can go ahead and dream that Russia will still come to your rescue while the reality is PRC is more important and stronger partner for Russia.


Yeah, bcz we have good dream, thats why we got nuke capable ballistic missile Shaddock and Russia expert even help us to upgrade it 

Any way: we dont even know where do u come from ?? do ur country have better missile than VN shaddock ??


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## William Hung

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, bcz we have good dream, thats why we got nuke capable ballistic missile Shaddock.
> 
> Any way: we dont even know where do u come from ?? do ur country have better missile than VN shaddock ??



So you admit you're dreaming now? that's good.

In the future, around the time your daughter grows older, I will also become VN citizen. So yes, you can say my "country" have shaddock.


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## NiceGuy

Black Flag said:


> So you admit you're dreaming now? that's good.
> 
> In the future, around the time your daughter grows older, I will also become VN citizen. So yes, you can say my "country" have shaddock.


Poor troll, keep masturbating on internet, I dont waste time wt a low IQ like u any more, bye bye .


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## William Hung

NiceGuy said:


> Poor troll, keep masturbating on internet, I dont waste time wt a low IQ like u any more, bye bye .



Then why do you always quote and tag me? 

I just realized something, I think you are actually a Chinese spy living in VN to make Viet people look bad? You always say nonsense things to make people laugh at you, like bragging about the 60s era shaddock missiles. 

You always troll into VN thread to derail and off topic. Like in this VN military thread here, me and Viet and Carlosa were having friendly discussion about Iskander missiles and its range, then you joined in to troll and derail the topic. 

Hmmm, my conclusion is you are a Chinese spy here to make Viet people look bad. I think all Chinese members here should give you a proper comrade greetings!


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## LeveragedBuyout




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## Genesis

LeveragedBuyout said:


>


stop red china, while the dude beside her raises a red flag of communist vietnam. lol

Also @LeveragedBuyout 

look at that yellow line, that's almost to our line. Them and their fishing boat navy wants to pretty much box us in. 

I'm not saying if that's right or wrong, but if successful, our carrier can't even leave to go into Indian ocean. I mean no way they can stop our ships from moving, but either way their claim is pretty ridicules. 

I'm not saying this to mean something, just thought no English article to date I read have talked about the Philippines' claim and Vietnam's claim, what they mean to the region, to each other, and to China.

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## LeveragedBuyout

Genesis said:


> stop red china, while the dude beside her raises a red flag of communist vietnam. lol
> 
> Also @LeveragedBuyout
> 
> look at that yellow line, that's almost to our line. Them and their fishing boat navy wants to pretty much box us in.
> 
> I'm not saying if that's right or wrong, but if successful, our carrier can't even leave to go into Indian ocean. I mean no way they can stop our ships from moving, but either way their claim is pretty ridicules.
> 
> I'm not saying this to mean something, just thought no English article to date I read have talked about the Philippines' claim and Vietnam's claim, what they mean to the region, to each other, and to China.



I am in no position to make judgments about the merits of the various borders, I just thought the video was interesting. From an outsider's point of view, though, the maximalist claims of all of the parties seem to be a recipe for war, whether it's Vietnam's reach east, or China's attempt to claim the SCS all the way down to Malaysia. How much more convenient for everyone if the area were as peaceful as the Gulf of Mexico.


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## FairAndUnbiased

LeveragedBuyout said:


> How much more convenient for everyone if the area were as peaceful as the Gulf of Mexico.



Just keep this in mind: The US:Mexico GDP balance is 14:1. The Chinese:Vietnamese GDP balance is 54:1.

Vietnam produces the same amount of original science research than Kenya despite a much larger GDP and population.

China, meanwhile, has been either the top or the second top (next to only the US) publisher of original scientific research in key indicators of national progress such as materials science, physical chemistry, condensed matter physics, nanoscience, electronic materials, electrical engineering, etc. for the past 5 years. The country that is strongest in these fields will rule the future, since advanced materials are one of the few remaining bottlenecks for rapid advances in all fields ranging from photonics to quantum information to space exploration.

SJR - International Science Ranking

Do you see now why their wild claims are laughable and futile?


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## Nike

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Just keep this in mind: The US:Mexico GDP balance is 14:1. The Chinese:Vietnamese GDP balance is 54:1.
> 
> Vietnam produces the same amount of original science research than Kenya despite a much larger GDP and population.
> 
> China, meanwhile, has been either the top or the second top (next to only the US) publisher of original scientific research in key indicators of national progress such as materials science, physical chemistry, condensed matter physics, nanoscience, electronic materials, electrical engineering, etc. for the past 5 years. The country that is strongest in these fields will rule the future, since advanced materials are one of the few remaining bottlenecks for rapid advances in all fields ranging from photonics to quantum information to space exploration.
> 
> SJR - International Science Ranking
> 
> Do you see now why their wild claims are laughable and futile?



i don't see any correlative argument between legal claims in South China Sea dispute border with any country wealth or research output, do you smoke a pipe while typing that?

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## FairAndUnbiased

madokafc said:


> i don't see any correlative argument between legal claims in South China Sea dispute border with any country wealth or research output, do you smoke a pipe while typing that?



There is no legal claim, but there is the enforcement claim. The legal claim is something else altogether, and this is the "military" thread, where we talk about the enforcement side. All that money and research makes for alot of very nice toys.


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## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Just keep this in mind: The US:Mexico GDP balance is 14:1. The Chinese:Vietnamese GDP balance is 54:1.
> 
> Vietnam produces the same amount of original science research than *Kenya *despite a much larger GDP and population.
> 
> China, meanwhile, has been either the top or the second top (next to only the US) publisher of original scientific research in key indicators of national progress such as materials science, physical chemistry, condensed matter physics, nanoscience, electronic materials, electrical engineering, etc. for the past 5 years. The country that is strongest in these fields will rule the future, since advanced materials are one of the few remaining bottlenecks for rapid advances in all fields ranging from photonics to quantum information to space exploration.
> 
> SJR - International Science Ranking
> 
> Do you see now why their wild claims are laughable and futile?


ha ha ha ...come on, try to take our islands and control the south china sea. we are supposed as weak as Kenya. that should not be a problem for you. stop barking.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...come on, try to take our islands and control the south china sea. we are supposed as weak as Kenya. that should not be a problem for you.



So you are asking for a fight?

You guys seem really loving to test China's patience because of its nice attitude.


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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> So you are asking for a fight?
> 
> You guys seem really loving to test China's patience because of its nice attitude.


SCS(east sea) is just like your throat. Unluckily, we VN keep ur throat in our hands , so why dare not u kick a poor -weak country like VN out and take back your own throat ?? R u a coward ??

We ask for war since the last oil rig conflict conflict, what can u do to us ??


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## Viet

Lieutenant General Tuan (R) received Lieutenant General Beng Sotharith from the Cambodian armed forces, on September 16th. Pretty good, that we have their army under control.








ChineseTiger1986 said:


> So you are asking for a fight?
> 
> You guys seem really loving to test China's patience because of its nice attitude.


we don´t care of if you run out of patience or not.

We will continue to make friends and allies and prepare for the worst. here is a news for you: recently we have proposed the idea of "ASEAN navy" at the Navy Chiefs’ Meeting in Bangkok. And surpringly all members have agreed. More, the ASEAN naval forces are scheduled to take part in a joint parade in 2017. @madokafc

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> we don´t care of if you run out of patience or not.
> 
> We will continue to make friends and allies and prepare for the worst. here is a news for you: recently we have proposed the idea of "ASEAN navy" at the Navy Chiefs’ Meeting in Bangkok. And surpringly all members have agreed. More, the ASEAN naval forces are scheduled to take part in a joint parade in 2017. @madokafc
> View attachment 62264



Your compatriot @NiceGuy wants to destroy China's economy by blocking the Strait of Malacca, so we hope that Vietnam could follow NiceGuy's advice, and see what would happen.


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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Your compatriot @NiceGuy wants to destroy China's economy by blocking the Strait of Malacca, so we hope that Vietnam could follow NiceGuy's advice, and see what would happen.


IF we block Malacca, ur ships can use Kra canal in Thai. But if we block in SCS(east sea), ur ships have no where to go , and bad thing for China is that not China but VN control the most important part of SCS(east sea) now


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## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> IF we block Malacca, ur ships can use Kra canal in Thai. But if we block in SCS(east sea), ur ships have no where to go , and bad thing for China is that not China but VN control the most important part of SCS(east sea) now



Not just blocking the Malacca on the keyboard, we should see some concrete actions as well.


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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not just blocking the Malacca on the keyboard, we should see some concrete actions as well.


Yeah, so park the oil rig inside the disputed zone again, u will see what will happen. Dont just stay inside ur water and brag, dude


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## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, so park the oil rig inside the disputed zone again, u will see what will happen. Dont just stay inside ur water and brag, dude



We will move our rig again, and just don't forget to block the Malacca from your keyboard again.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Your compatriot @NiceGuy wants to destroy China's economy by blocking the Strait of Malacca, so we hope that Vietnam could follow NiceGuy's advice, and see what would happen.


that is about what we are planning: asymmetric warfare. the Kilo and soon the SU-30 equipped with BrahMos supersonic antiship missiles, we can threaten your warships and subs operating in the region.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> that is about what we are planning: asymmetric warfare. the Kilo and soon the SU-30 equipped with BrahMos supersonic antiship missiles, we can threaten your warships and subs operating in the region.



Hopefully you won't regret during that moment.


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## danger007

NiceGuy said:


> IF we block Malacca, ur ships can use Kra canal in Thai. But if we block in SCS(east sea), ur ships have no where to go , and bad thing for China is that not China but VN control the most important part of SCS(east sea) now


you can't block malacca straight without IN involvement. . Indian navy right there... we have A &N islands. ..


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Hopefully you won't regret during that moment.


we will not start the war.



danger007 said:


> you can't block malacca straight without IN involvement. . Indian navy right there... we have A &N islands. ..


correct, we need your help.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> we will not start the war.



Then leave our rig alone, since your behavior is close to the brink of the war.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Then leave our rig alone, since your behavior is close to the brink of the war.


don´t deploy any rigs into our eez waters.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because we don't need that missile.


ha ha ha ...do you have anything with performance close to iskander missile?


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> The Soviet transferred you Shaddock missiles since the 80s. Russia only agreed to MTCR from 1995 onwards. Meaning, from 1995, they agreed not to export missiles with range over 300km.
> 
> 
> 
> People have a right to dismiss your claim if the only evidence you have is "I have reliable source but can't tell you who".
> 
> If you come up with that article, then I'll believe you more. For now, it is senseless. If Russia don't care about the MTCR agreement, then why did they join in the first place? why would they then make a public (in russian) announcement to break that agreement? are they on a mission to discredit themselves in front of the international community?



I could not find the article, I don't think I saved it. The article was about the export of the extended range Iskander with 2000 km range.

The statements about Russia supplying the Iskanders to Vietnam without range limitations come from a vietnamese military officer that is part of the team that travels to Russia to evaluate weapon systems. He has been right many times in the past and I consider him reliable. Is that a proof, no its not. Regrettably that's how it is with Vietnam, always everything in secret, no announcements about anything. You can only confirm the big items that can't be hidden like ships and planes, other than that, you can rarely get any information. There is nothing that I can do about that.

To recap and expand on Scuds:

1) Vietnam bought Scuds B from Russia and later self produced the missiles.

2) Around 1997-1999 Vietnam bought 55 missiles from North Korea of an improved variant of the Scud C (Swahong-6) and received full technology transfer. Range is 550 km.
After that Vietnam self produced that Scud C variant and also started to upgrade the B version to C version.

3) Vietnam self produces a variant of Scud D with a range of 800 to 900 km and accuracy with a CEP of 50 meters. Technical assistance from North Korea was received.

4) Vietnam tested an unknown ballistic missile in 2008. The test was shown on Vietnamese TV on channel VTV3. It was announced that the range reaches up to 1500 km, has a new engine with improved thrust and solid fuel. The body was elongated for more fuel capacity. Warhead size was not given. Its probably an advance variant of the Scud D using solid fuel and based on North Korean technology. Vietnam self produces the solid fuel.

5) There are also rumors of a medium range missile, 1500 - 2000 km range, 2 stage, solid fuel under development. It could also be used to place small satellites in orbit. That's all i've heard.

6) Carl Thayer had reported that Vietnam and North Korea had made deals on missile technology assistance in 1996, 1999 and 2009 so this assistance has been ongoing for many years and it seems to continue.

We can only guess what Vietnam has produced as a result of this cooperation and production effort, but I would imagine that such an effort for so many years has to have some results.

If the chinese members of the forum don't want to believe any of this and prefer to dismiss the self produced vietnamese ballistic force, that's their right. What they choose to believe or not does not in any way changes reality.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...do you have anything with performance close to iskander missile?



They don't have anything with the performance of the Iskander but you can bet that they will say that they have.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I could not find the article, I don't think I saved it. The article was about the export of the extended range Iskander with 2000 km range.
> 
> The statements about Russia supplying the Iskanders to Vietnam without range limitations come from a vietnamese military officer that is part of the team that travels to Russia to evaluate weapon systems. He has been right many times in the past and I consider him reliable. Is that a proof, no its not. Regrettably that's how it is with Vietnam, always everything in secret, no announcements about anything. You can only confirm the big items that can't be hidden like ships and planes, other than that, you can rarely get any information. There is nothing that I can do about that.
> 
> To recap and expand on Scuds:
> 
> 1) Vietnam bought Scuds B from Russia and later self produced the missiles.
> 
> 2) Around 1997-1999 Vietnam bought 55 missiles from North Korea of an improved variant of the Scud C and received full technology transfer. Range is 550 km.
> After that Vietnam self produced that Scud C variant and also started to upgrade the B version to C version.
> 
> 3) Vietnam self produces a variant of Scud D with a range of 800 to 900 km and accuracy with a CEP of 50 meters. Technical assistance from North Korea was received.
> 
> 4) Vietnam tested an unknown ballistic missile. The test was shown on Vietnamese TV on channel VTV3 a few years ago. It was announced that the range reaches up to 1500 km, has a new engine with improved thrust and solid fuel. The body was elongated for more fuel capacity. Warhead size was not given. Its probably an advance variant of the Scud D using solid fuel and based on North Korean technology. Vietnam self produces the solid fuel.
> 
> 5) Carl Thayer had reported that Vietnam and North Korea had made deals on missile technology assistance in 1996, 1999 and 2009 so this assistance has been ongoing for many years and it seems to continue.
> 
> We can only guess what Vietnam has produced as a result of this cooperation and production effort, but I would imagine that such an effort for so many years has to have some results.
> 
> If the chinese members of the forum don't want to believe any of this and prefer to dismiss the self produced vietnamese ballistic force, that's their right. What they choose to believe or not does not in any way changes reality.


bro, it is a nice summarization. Yes, if we master the Scud-B technology (and there are reports we can), then we can develop medium and long range version of it. North Korea missile program is based upon Scud technology. Iran missiles are not much of difference.

BBC News - North Korea's missile programme

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bro, it is a nice summarization. Yes, if we master the Scud-B technonoly (and there are reports we can), then we can develop medium and long range version of it. North Korea missile program is based upon Scud technology. Iran missiles are not much of difference.
> 
> View attachment 62528



Yes, to go further in range all is needed is to add another stage (another fuel body and engine) to the missile and to separate and eject the unused stages if required so that in the end you only have the warhead capsule in the terminal phase of approaching the target. That capsule could also have small thrusters for trajectory correction and guidance systems including GPS / GLONASS, etc in order to have good accuracy. There is nothing so difficult about that. Syria had developed Scuds D with a separating warhead section. range of 700 km and CEP of 50 meters.They has assistance from North Korea, same as Vietnam There is no reason why Vietnam can't do it, particularly with North Korean assistance.

The Iranian ballistic missile program is based on North Korean technology and we can see the results. That shows what VN could do. Granted that Iran has a better military industrial base and more money, but it is a point of reference.

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## LeveragedBuyout

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Just keep this in mind: The US:Mexico GDP balance is 14:1. The Chinese:Vietnamese GDP balance is 54:1.
> 
> Vietnam produces the same amount of original science research than Kenya despite a much larger GDP and population.
> 
> China, meanwhile, has been either the top or the second top (next to only the US) publisher of original scientific research in key indicators of national progress such as materials science, physical chemistry, condensed matter physics, nanoscience, electronic materials, electrical engineering, etc. for the past 5 years. The country that is strongest in these fields will rule the future, since advanced materials are one of the few remaining bottlenecks for rapid advances in all fields ranging from photonics to quantum information to space exploration.
> 
> SJR - International Science Ranking
> 
> Do you see now why their wild claims are laughable and futile?



In this respect, the US has had a far better strategic vision than China. Back in 1990, we had a GDP that was 22x that of Mexico. We decided to join with them in NAFTA, thus both benefiting from their cheap labor market to create a mini-China to which to outsource our manufacturing, and simultaneously building up a nearby market for our export products. It's worked out fairly well, and as an added bonus, Mexico has gradually become more stable, thus reducing the potential for military involvement (it seems ludicrous now, but remember the US attitude towards Latin America in the 1980s). We need not waste money to fill the Gulf of Mexico with naval assets to secure our oil interests, because the Gulf is peaceful.

It's difficult to understand China's thought process in this. If China wanted, I am sure some agreement could be made over the oil, as long as China is willing to forego the possibility of taking 100% of the oil or oil revenues, and settle for something a bit more equitable. China seems uninterested in such a solution, which I suspect is in order to pander to the population's nationalistic tendencies. China may get all of the oil, but it may lose Vietnam to America in the process, which seems like a terrible trade-off, considering it could have had both.

Note that I didn't mention anything about Mexico's relative lack of scientific achievement.

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## Viet

LeveragedBuyout said:


> In this respect, the US has had a far better strategic vision than China. Back in 1990, we had a GDP that was 22x that of Mexico. We decided to join with them in NAFTA, thus both benefiting from their cheap labor market to create a mini-China to which to outsource our manufacturing, and simultaneously building up a nearby market for our export products. It's worked out fairly well, and as an added bonus, Mexico has gradually become more stable, thus reducing the potential for military involvement (it seems ludicrous now, but remember the US attitude towards Latin America in the 1980s). We need not waste money to fill the Gulf of Mexico with naval assets to secure our oil interests, because the Gulf is peaceful.
> 
> It's difficult to understand China's thought process in this. If China wanted, I am sure some agreement could be made over the oil, as long as China is willing to forego the possibility of taking 100% of the oil or oil revenues, and settle for something a bit more equitable. China seems uninterested in such a solution, which I suspect is in order to pander to the population's nationalistic tendencies. China may get all of the oil, but it may lose Vietnam to America in the process, which seems like a terrible trade-off, considering it could have had both.
> 
> Note that I didn't mention anything about Mexico's relative lack of scientific achievement.


I wish, basically everyone wishes in the region, China would copy the ways of what America peacefully contributes to the region. Or Germany does to the region after the defeat in the WW II. to understand China what it does, why it does, one must understand Chinese psyche.

What is Chinese psyche?

actually today the Chinese are stuck between "middle kingdom"´s mindset, extreme nationalism, racism, egoism, arrogance and aggression. In this combination, they are worse than the Japanese in their dark times period.

Do you think they want a peaceful region, a stable neighborhood, a properous Vietnam? Nope. As the foreign minister of Australia Julia Bishop recently put it: China doesn't respect weakness. The only thing Chinese respect is power, or you can put it: violence. Chinese admire US military power. they despise the rest of the world as inferior. the most important thing they want is money and how to accumulate the money. Because they believe money can buy everything including friends or stooge like Cambodia.

Chinese calculus is so: China is big and rich, so it can have all. Vietnam is small and poor. Conclusion: we should give in their demand and surrender our money to them to make them richer. Otherwise they will come with warships and fighter jets.

I bet, if we have a squadron of nuclear submarines with nukes, Chinese will become peaceful and return to negotiating table. So if you want a peaceful region in Southeast Asia, pls provide us with necessary means.

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## Carlosa

LeveragedBuyout said:


> In this respect, the US has had a far better strategic vision than China. Back in 1990, we had a GDP that was 22x that of Mexico. We decided to join with them in NAFTA, thus both benefiting from their cheap labor market to create a mini-China to which to outsource our manufacturing, and simultaneously building up a nearby market for our export products. It's worked out fairly well, and as an added bonus, Mexico has gradually become more stable, thus reducing the potential for military involvement (it seems ludicrous now, but remember the US attitude towards Latin America in the 1980s). We need not waste money to fill the Gulf of Mexico with naval assets to secure our oil interests, because the Gulf is peaceful.
> 
> It's difficult to understand China's thought process in this. If China wanted, I am sure some agreement could be made over the oil, as long as China is willing to forego the possibility of taking 100% of the oil or oil revenues, and settle for something a bit more equitable. China seems uninterested in such a solution, which I suspect is in order to pander to the population's nationalistic tendencies. China may get all of the oil, but it may lose Vietnam to America in the process, which seems like a terrible trade-off, considering it could have had both.
> 
> Note that I didn't mention anything about Mexico's relative lack of scientific achievement.



To understand their policies need to understand how chinese naturally do things. If you spend some time in China, you get it right away. Most chinese are aggressive, calculating, greedy and tricky, so their policies reflect that.

There is an smart way to win and even dominate (the US model), but the chinese are used to the old fashion rough way that in the end is not sustainable and will make them lose, but I guess that's the only way for them to learn.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, to go further in range all is needed is to add another stage (another fuel body and engine) to the missile and to separate and eject the unused stages if required so that in the end you only have the warhead capsule in the terminal phase of approaching the target. That capsule could also have small thrusters for trajectory correction and guidance systems including GPS / GLONASS, etc in order to have good accuracy. There is nothing so difficult about that. Syria had developed Scuds D with a separating warhead section. range of 700 km and CEP of 50 meters.They has assistance from North Korea, same as Vietnam There is no reason why Vietnam can't do it, particularly with North Korean assistance.
> 
> The Iranian ballistic missile program is based on North Korean technology and we can see the results. That shows what VN could do. Granted that Iran has a better military industrial base and more money, but it is a point of reference.


yes, the medium and long range balistic missiles of North Korea *Taepodong-1 and 2* are basically Scud-B plus 2-3 stage of fuel body and engine, carrying a warhead of 500 kg. the range of their missiles covers not only Japan, but a large part of China.

who is friend, who is enemy?







Vietnam Scud-B

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## LeveragedBuyout

Viet said:


> I wish, basically everyone wishes in the region, China would copy the ways of what America peacefully contributes to the region. Or Germany does to the region after the defeat in the WW II. to understand China what it does, why it does, one must understand Chinese psyche.
> 
> What is Chinese psyche?
> 
> actually today the Chinese are stuck between "middle kingdom"´s mindset, extreme nationalism, racism, egoism, arrogance and aggression. In this combination, they are worse than the Japanese in their dark times period.
> 
> Do you think they want a peaceful region, a stable neighborhood, a properous Vietnam? Nope. As the foreign minister of Australia Julia Bishop recently put it: China doesn't respect weakness. The only thing Chinese respect is power, or you can put it: violence. Chinese admire US military power. they despise the rest of the world as inferior. the most important thing they want is money and how to accumulate the money. Because they believe money can buy everything including friends or stooge like Cambodia.
> 
> Chinese calculus is so: China is big and rich, so it can have all. Vietnam is small and poor. Conclusion: we should give in their demand and surrender our money to them to make them richer. Otherwise they will come with warships and fighter jets.
> 
> I bet, if we have a squadron of nuclear submarines with nukes, Chinese will become peaceful and return to negotiating table. So if you want a peaceful region in Southeast Asia, pls provide us with necessary means.





Carlosa said:


> To understand their policies need to understand how chinese naturally do things. If you spend some time in China, you get it right away. Most chinese are aggressive, calculating, greedy and tricky, so their policies reflect that.
> 
> There is an smart way to win and even dominate (the US model), but the chinese are used to the old fashion rough way that in the end is not sustainable and will make them lose, but I guess that's the only way for them to learn.



Let's not be hasty. Everyone has pride, and many cultures have the "we only respect power" component to it, but I think in China's case, it's probably a bit more nuanced. I have hesitated to write this, because it can come across as incendiary if misunderstood, but I mean no disrespect to China or our Chinese friends here. I'm simply trying to apply a conceptual model to rationalize China's behavior and understand what China wants. To wit:

China suffered two large traumas, one in the 19th century, and one in the 20th, that constitute its "Century of Humiliation." A common model for looking at the consequences of traumas in people is the Kübler-Ross model, better known as the five stages of grief. These stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Roughly speaking, the non-reaction in the 19th century might be considered denial, then the upheavals in the early 20th as anger, coming to terms with itself as a new country after WWII as bargaining, the cultural revolution as depression, and then the reforms under Deng Xiaoping as acceptance. I am going to steal Wikipedia's example of the acceptance stage:

*Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."*
In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with their mortality or inevitable future, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event. This stage varies according to the person's situation. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief. This typically comes with a calm, retrospective view for the individual, and a stable mindset.​
This is China's drive to improve its economic conditions in order to strengthen itself, and fulfill its vow of "never again." This can sometimes manifest itself as overreaction to perceived slights, and a wary defensiveness. I have referred to this in other threads as "aggressive victimhood," but call it whatever you like: China was a victim in the past, and now it's powerful enough to prevent it and do something about it.

Now on to another conceptual model that I think has some utility in understanding the thinking of some Chinese users here. We have seen suggestions that if China breaks the USD as a reserve currency, it can break US hegemony. We have seen suggestions that since China "does more science," it will be more advanced. We have seen suggestions that if China uses the same gunboat diplomacy that the West used over a century ago, it can accrue the same level of prestige as the West.

I think it's instructive to examine the cargo cult. I'm going to excerpt from Wikipedia, but read the article if you have time, it's fascinating.

_The most widely known period of cargo cult activity occurred among the Melanesian islanders in the years during and after World War II. A small population of indigenous peoples observed, often right in front of their dwellings, the largest war ever fought by technologically advanced nations. First, the Japanese arrived with a great deal of supplies and later theAllied forces did likewise.

The vast amounts of military equipment and supplies that both sides airdropped (or airlifted to airstrips) to troops on these islands meant drastic changes to the lifestyle of the islanders, many of whom had never seen outsiders before. Manufactured clothing, medicine, canned food, tents, weapons and other goods arrived in vast quantities for the soldiers, who often shared some of it with the islanders who were their guides and hosts.

...

With the end of the war, the military abandoned the airbases and stopped dropping cargo. In response, charismatic individuals developed cults among remote Melanesian populations that promised to bestow on their followers deliveries of food, arms, Jeeps, etc. The cult leaders explained that the cargo would be gifts from their own ancestors, or other sources, as had occurred with the outsider armies. In attempts to get cargo to fall by parachute or land in planes or ships again, islanders imitated the same practices they had seen the soldiers, sailors, and airmen use. Cult behaviors usually involved mimicking the day-to-day activities and dress styles of US soldiers, such as performing parade ground drills with wooden or salvaged rifles. The islanders carved headphones from wood and wore them while sitting in fabricated control towers. They waved the landing signals while standing on the runways. They lit signal fires and torches to light up runways and lighthouses.

In a form of sympathetic magic, many built life-size replicas of aeroplanes out of straw and cut new military-style landing strips out of the jungle, hoping to attract more aeroplanes. The cult members thought that the foreigners had some special connection to the deities and ancestors of the natives, who were the only beings powerful enough to produce such riches._​
To put it simplistically, I think China saw the trappings of wealth and prestige of the West, and decided that in order to attain such wealth and prestige for itself as well, it needed to do what the Westerners did, without fully appreciating the more profound causes of that power. The West had superior technology, so China needed to "do science." The West had used gunboat diplomacy, so China needed to assert itself in the SCS and ECS. The UK and US had the reserve currencies, so China needed to deprive them of that in order to take their place. And so forth. China didn't preoccupy itself with questions of why the Western culture was able to produce these things; it only knew that to have those things was to have power.

I really think it's not much more profound than that. Every rising power wants its place under the sun, whether it's Britain rising up through the Spanish, Portuguese, and Dutch empires, or Germany trying to surpass the British Empire, or the US dismantling the British Empire to become leader of the free world.

Now China is attempting to do the same, but in a somewhat more shallow way, along the model of the USSR. Whereas the US combined economic and military strength with an attractive soft power, China relies entirely on its economic strength and military hard power. I don't think this comes down to pure greed, or malevolence, I think China simply doesn't know how to accrue allies, so it creates enemies, instead.

In time, I think China will complete the "acceptance" stage of its grief cycle, and become a normal country that doesn't need to traumatize others in order to feel secure in itself. We saw the first glimpse of that with Tiananmen Square. But it will take a few more decades before China realizes that it's so strong that it's not possible to be encircled again, or to have a repetition of the Century of Humiliation.

What is the solution? Much like China, I think Vietnam should bide its time, and build its resources. Nothing lasts forever, and this stage of tensions will also pass, so Vietnam needs to be ready to exploit the opportunities that come its way when the situation presents itself.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yes, the medium and long range balistic missiles of North Korea *Taepodong-1 and 2* are basically Scud-B plus 2-3 stage of fuel body and engine, carrying a warhead of 500 kg. the range of their missiles covers not only Japan, but a large part of China.
> 
> who is friend, who is enemy?
> 
> View attachment 63233
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Scud-B
> View attachment 63234



Yes and even the americans already admitted that North Korea already developed ICBM's that can reach USA with a nuclear warhead.

VN already got some of that technology at the very least and can have all of it if it pays enough, the north koreans love to sell it, both the missile technology and the nuclear technology.

I don't know how many ballistic missiles VN has, but I suspect that its not an insignificant number. If there is a ballistic missile exchange between VN and china, it will not be just in one direction.

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## Carlosa

LeveragedBuyout said:


> Let's not be hasty. Everyone has pride, and many cultures have the "we only respect power" component to it, but I think in China's case, it's probably a bit more nuanced. I have hesitated to write this, because it can come across as incendiary if misunderstood, but I mean no disrespect to China or our Chinese friends here. I'm simply trying to apply a conceptual model to rationalize China's behavior and understand what China wants. To wit:
> 
> China suffered two large traumas, one in the 19th century, and one in the 20th, that constitute its "Century of Humiliation." A common model for looking at the consequences of traumas in people is the Kübler-Ross model, better known as the five stages of grief. These stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Roughly speaking, the non-reaction in the 19th century might be considered denial, then the upheavals in the early 20th as anger, coming to terms with itself as a new country after WWII as bargaining, the cultural revolution as depression, and then the reforms under Deng Xiaoping as acceptance. I am going to steal Wikipedia's example of the acceptance stage:
> 
> *Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."*
> In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with their mortality or inevitable future, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event. This stage varies according to the person's situation. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief. This typically comes with a calm, retrospective view for the individual, and a stable mindset.​
> This is China's drive to improve its economic conditions in order to strengthen itself, and fulfill its vow of "never again." This can sometimes manifest itself as overreaction to perceived slights, and a wary defensiveness. I have referred to this in other threads as "aggressive victimhood," but call it whatever you like: China was a victim in the past, and now it's powerful enough to prevent it and do something about it.
> 
> Now on to another conceptual model that I think has some utility in understanding the thinking of some Chinese users here. We have seen suggestions that if China breaks the USD as a reserve currency, it can break US hegemony. We have seen suggestions that since China "does more science," it will be more advanced. We have seen suggestions that if China uses the same gunboat diplomacy that the West used over a century ago, it can accrue the same level of prestige as the West.
> 
> I think it's instructive to examine the cargo cult. I'm going to excerpt from Wikipedia, but read the article if you have time, it's fascinating.
> 
> _The most widely known period of cargo cult activity occurred among the Melanesian islanders in the years during and after World War II. A small population of indigenous peoples observed, often right in front of their dwellings, the largest war ever fought by technologically advanced nations. First, the Japanese arrived with a great deal of supplies and later theAllied forces did likewise.
> 
> The vast amounts of military equipment and supplies that both sides airdropped (or airlifted to airstrips) to troops on these islands meant drastic changes to the lifestyle of the islanders, many of whom had never seen outsiders before. Manufactured clothing, medicine, canned food, tents, weapons and other goods arrived in vast quantities for the soldiers, who often shared some of it with the islanders who were their guides and hosts.
> 
> ...
> 
> With the end of the war, the military abandoned the airbases and stopped dropping cargo. In response, charismatic individuals developed cults among remote Melanesian populations that promised to bestow on their followers deliveries of food, arms, Jeeps, etc. The cult leaders explained that the cargo would be gifts from their own ancestors, or other sources, as had occurred with the outsider armies. In attempts to get cargo to fall by parachute or land in planes or ships again, islanders imitated the same practices they had seen the soldiers, sailors, and airmen use. Cult behaviors usually involved mimicking the day-to-day activities and dress styles of US soldiers, such as performing parade ground drills with wooden or salvaged rifles. The islanders carved headphones from wood and wore them while sitting in fabricated control towers. They waved the landing signals while standing on the runways. They lit signal fires and torches to light up runways and lighthouses.
> 
> In a form of sympathetic magic, many built life-size replicas of aeroplanes out of straw and cut new military-style landing strips out of the jungle, hoping to attract more aeroplanes. The cult members thought that the foreigners had some special connection to the deities and ancestors of the natives, who were the only beings powerful enough to produce such riches._​
> To put it simplistically, I think China saw the trappings of wealth and prestige of the West, and decided that in order to attain such wealth and prestige for itself as well, it needed to do what the Westerners did, without fully appreciating the more profound causes of that power. The West had superior technology, so China needed to "do science." The West had used gunboat diplomacy, so China needed to assert itself in the SCS and ECS. The UK and US had the reserve currencies, so China needed to deprive them of that in order to take their place. And so forth. China didn't preoccupy itself with questions of why the Western culture was able to produce these things; it only knew that to have those things was to have power.
> 
> I really think it's not much more profound than that. Every rising power wants its place under the sun, whether it's Britain rising up through the Spanish, Portuguese, and Dutch empires, or Germany trying to surpass the British Empire, or the US dismantling the British Empire to become leader of the free world.
> 
> Now China is attempting to do the same, but in a somewhat more shallow way, along the model of the USSR. Whereas the US combined economic and military strength with an attractive soft power, China relies entirely on its economic strength and military hard power. I don't think this comes down to pure greed, or malevolence, I think China simply doesn't know how to accrue allies, so it creates enemies, instead.
> 
> In time, I think China will complete the "acceptance" stage of its grief cycle, and become a normal country that doesn't need to traumatize others in order to feel secure in itself. We saw the first glimpse of that with Tiananmen Square. But it will take a few more decades before China realizes that it's so strong that it's not possible to be encircled again, or to have a repetition of the Century of Humiliation.
> 
> What is the solution? Much like China, I think Vietnam should bide its time, and build its resources. Nothing lasts forever, and this stage of tensions will also pass, so Vietnam needs to be ready to exploit the opportunities that come its way when the situation presents itself.



You made a very good point, thank you. It is correct up to a point, but not fully, believe me, if you spend enough time in china, you will understand chinese people better. Chinese people living in USA, particularly if they grew up there are already very different than mainland chinese. 

Western people have a tendency to see others with western eyes and expect from them the same as from western people and when that's not the case, then they try to rationalize a logical explanation as to why is not that way.

The answer is in the cultural differences, Tibetan culture for example, is quite peaceful and religious oriented, they believe in "live and let live". Chinese culture is the opposite of that and it goes back for a very long time. They have a different way of doing things and of thinking, they follow different rules of behavior, they do that in all aspects of their interaction with the outside world, that's why they flood the markets with fake goods, they hack everybody to steal technology, everything is fair game for them, their words and promises don't have much value, they break it at the moment that is no longer needed, they act in a predatory way. The people of the countries around here in southeast asia, they understand chinese and see them for what they are, that's why everybody dislike them (that's a mild way to put it), wether it is Vietnam, thailand, indonesia, malaysia, etc, everybody (generally speaking) feels the same way about them.

Don't worry too much about being politically correct here, can talk rough, you can see how most chinese in the forum don't usually respect anybody anyway. Many of them are living in USA, some are naturalized or born US citizens, but they often speak pretty bad about USA, that's quite typical of them.

Again, thank you for your analysis, its good, I just think that is a partial explanation, at least that's my take.

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## FairAndUnbiased

LeveragedBuyout said:


> Now on to another conceptual model that I think has some utility in understanding the thinking of some Chinese users here. We have seen suggestions that if China breaks the USD as a reserve currency, it can break US hegemony. We have seen suggestions that since China "does more science," it will be more advanced. We have seen suggestions that if China uses the same gunboat diplomacy that the West used over a century ago, it can accrue the same level of prestige as the West.
> 
> To put it simplistically, I think China saw the trappings of wealth and prestige of the West, and decided that in order to attain such wealth and prestige for itself as well, it needed to do what the Westerners did, without fully appreciating the more profound causes of that power. The West had superior technology, so China needed to "do science." The West had used gunboat diplomacy, so China needed to assert itself in the SCS and ECS. The UK and US had the reserve currencies, so China needed to deprive them of that in order to take their place. And so forth. China didn't preoccupy itself with questions of why the Western culture was able to produce these things; it only knew that to have those things was to have power.
> 
> Now China is attempting to do the same, but in a somewhat more shallow way, along the model of the USSR. Whereas the US combined economic and military strength with an attractive soft power, China relies entirely on its economic strength and military hard power. I don't think this comes down to pure greed, or malevolence, I think China simply doesn't know how to accrue allies, so it creates enemies, instead.



This is easy for you to say, with two relatively weak and compliant nations next to you and then two oceans. Do note that the US has fought border wars with both Canada and Mexico during the first 70 years of the US's founding. It is only extremely overwhelming US relative strength that allows it a peaceful neighborhood.

There's no secret to why Chinese do science. China has been the premier technological and scientific power from 500 BC to 1700 AD. There is no need to think about psychology - countries that can do science, will do science. Those that can't, don't. Science is a key indicator of national progress, especially in the materials and physical sciences.

There is also no gunboat diplomacy. Note that no naval forces have been deployed and no guns actually used. Why was the West's gunboat diplomacy called that? Because it literally involved gunboats sailing into harbors of Asian countries and even opening fire along rivers. There has been *nothing close* with Vietnam.

The real problem here is that unlike Mexico, Vietnam does not recognize its overwhelming weakness, because it believes it can leverage the US into helping it. It is the identical situation to if Mexico thought that the Soviet Union or Great Britain would help it get its land back by giving it (as Vietnamese here think the US will give it) IRBMs, a nuclear program, AEGIS destroyers, submarines, tanks, fighters, etc.

As you can see here, Vietnamese are showing their racism. They are saying "Chinese are..." while no Chinese has ever said "Vietnamese are..." Instead, Chinese have only pointed out the objective weakness of Vietnam and its inability to enforce its claims should gunboat diplomacy actually be used. There is no argument about right or wrong, because this thread is not about right or wrong - it is about the objective comparison of Vietnamese military forces to its competitors. By not condemning racism, you are condoning it. Do you see now why Chinese feel apprehensive about Vietnamese? Do you not realize that agreeing with them by saying that Chinese actions are due to preceived slights and historical trauma, rather than legitimate concerns about territorial integrity, is actually a form of racism that says the opinions of Chinese people are worth less than the opinions of Vietnamese and others, simply because of their race?



Carlosa said:


> Yes and even the americans already admitted that North Korea already developed ICBM's that can reach USA with a nuclear warhead.
> 
> VN already got some of that technology at the very least and can have all of it if it pays enough, the north koreans love to sell it, both the missile technology and the nuclear technology.
> 
> I don't know how many ballistic missiles VN has, but I suspect that its not an insignificant number. If there is a ballistic missile exchange between VN and china, it will not be just in one direction.



Oh my god. You get some Saddam era Iraqi style SCUDs and now think you can launch ballistic missiles like they're fireworks. What do you think is going to happen if Chinese detect a ballistic missile launch heading towards a Chinese city from Vietnam?


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## bolo

Viet said:


> I wish, basically everyone wishes in the region, China would copy the ways of what America peacefully contributes to the region. Or Germany does to the region after the defeat in the WW II. to understand China what it does, why it does, one must understand Chinese psyche.
> 
> What is Chinese psyche?
> 
> actually today the Chinese are stuck between "middle kingdom"´s mindset, extreme nationalism, racism, egoism, arrogance and aggression. In this combination, they are worse than the Japanese in their dark times period.
> 
> Do you think they want a peaceful region, a stable neighborhood, a properous Vietnam? Nope. As the foreign minister of Australia Julia Bishop recently put it: China doesn't respect weakness. The only thing Chinese respect is power, or you can put it: violence. Chinese admire US military power. they despise the rest of the world as inferior. the most important thing they want is money and how to accumulate the money. Because they believe money can buy everything including friends or stooge like Cambodia.
> 
> Chinese calculus is so: China is big and rich, so it can have all. Vietnam is small and poor. Conclusion: we should give in their demand and surrender our money to them to make them richer. Otherwise they will come with warships and fighter jets.
> 
> I bet, if we have a squadron of nuclear submarines with nukes, Chinese will become peaceful and return to negotiating table. So if you want a peaceful region in Southeast Asia, pls provide us with necessary means.



Right. A Viet dog pretending to know Chinese mindset.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> This is easy for you to say, with two relatively weak and compliant nations next to you and then two oceans. Do note that the US has fought border wars with both Canada and Mexico during the first 70 years of the US's founding. It is only extremely overwhelming US relative strength that allows it a peaceful neighborhood.
> 
> There's no secret to why Chinese do science. China has been the premier technological and scientific power from 500 BC to 1700 AD. There is no need to think about psychology - countries that can do science, will do science. Those that can't, don't. Science is a key indicator of national progress, especially in the materials and physical sciences.
> 
> There is also no gunboat diplomacy. Note that no naval forces have been deployed and no guns actually used. Why was the West's gunboat diplomacy called that? Because it literally involved gunboats sailing into harbors of Asian countries and even opening fire along rivers. There has been *nothing close* with Vietnam.
> 
> The real problem here is that unlike Mexico, Vietnam does not recognize its overwhelming weakness, because it believes it can leverage the US into helping it. It is the identical situation to if Mexico thought that the Soviet Union or Great Britain would help it get its land back by giving it (as Vietnamese here think the US will give it) IRBMs, a nuclear program, AEGIS destroyers, submarines, tanks, fighters, etc.
> 
> As you can see here, Vietnamese are showing their racism. They are saying "Chinese are..." while no Chinese has ever said "Vietnamese are..." Instead, Chinese have only pointed out the objective weakness of Vietnam and its inability to enforce its claims should gunboat diplomacy actually be used. There is no argument about right or wrong, because this thread is not about right or wrong - it is about the objective comparison of Vietnamese military forces to its competitors. By not condemning racism, you are condoning it. Do you see now why Chinese feel apprehensive about Vietnamese? Do you not realize that agreeing with them by saying that Chinese actions are due to preceived slights and historical trauma, rather than legitimate concerns about territorial integrity, is actually a form of racism that says the opinions of Chinese people are worth less than the opinions of Vietnamese and others, simply because of their race?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my god. You get some Saddam era Iraqi style SCUDs and now think you can launch ballistic missiles like they're fireworks. What do you think is going to happen if Chinese detect a ballistic missile launch heading towards a Chinese city from Vietnam?



Free trade is not free trade signed by US unless it benefits them. They will and have impose sanctions on their free trade partners. Canada was a victim of that.

CBC Digital Archives - At Loggerheads: The Canada-U.S. Softwood Lumber Dispute - Softwood Dispute: Canada claims victory at WTO

Even WTO agree but it doesn't help. Canadian got a taste of Daddy US.


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## Carlosa

bolo said:


> Right. A Viet dog pretending to know Chinese mindset.



If anything, an Spanish dog and yes, I understand the chinese mindset because I spent plenty of time in china. The truth hurts huh?



FairAndUnbiased said:


> Oh my god. You get some Saddam era Iraqi style SCUDs and now think you can launch ballistic missiles like they're fireworks. What do you think is going to happen if Chinese detect a ballistic missile launch heading towards a Chinese city from Vietnam?



Saddam's era scuds only in your dreams. They are just for deterrence, if china behaves, there is no need to use them.

I guess you don't read what your fellow chinese friends often say here about vietnamese in this forum? Not only you seem to be brainwashed by chinese government propaganda, but you seem to have selective vision when you read this thread.

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## LeveragedBuyout

FairAndUnbiased said:


> This is easy for you to say, with two relatively weak and compliant nations next to you and then two oceans. Do note that the US has fought border wars with both Canada and Mexico during the first 70 years of the US's founding. It is only extremely overwhelming US relative strength that allows it a peaceful neighborhood.



That, and the fact that the US decided not to unilaterally seize disputed territories, but rather negotiated with these parties for a final settlement. It would be easier to agree with you if the US claimed the Gulf of Mexico all the way down to Cancun, but unlike China's claims all the way down to Malaysia, we don't go that far.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> There's no secret to why Chinese do science. China has been the premier technological and scientific power from 500 BC to 1700 AD. There is no need to think about psychology - countries that can do science, will do science. Those that can't, don't. Science is a key indicator of national progress, especially in the materials and physical sciences.



Certainly, but this is a function of economic development and financial resources. Mocking Vietnam for doing less science than China is just reaffirming that China has a far larger economy, which isn't saying much.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> There is also no gunboat diplomacy. Note that no naval forces have been deployed and no guns actually used. Why was the West's gunboat diplomacy called that? Because it literally involved gunboats sailing into harbors of Asian countries and even opening fire along rivers. There has been *nothing close* with Vietnam.



Except for ramming and sinking Vietnamese ships in disputed territories, and then dispatching armed Chinese naval vessels to guard Chinese drilling activities in disputed territories, I agree with you.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> The real problem here is that unlike Mexico, Vietnam does not recognize its overwhelming weakness, because it believes it can leverage the US into helping it. It is the identical situation to if Mexico thought that the Soviet Union or Great Britain would help it get its land back by giving it (as Vietnamese here think the US will give it) IRBMs, a nuclear program, AEGIS destroyers, submarines, tanks, fighters, etc.



You're not really saying that with a straight face, are you? Is there any country that should just roll over simply because it is comparatively weak at a point in time? If so, why did China ever bother fighting back against Japan in WWII? Shouldn't it have simply "recognized its overwhelming weakness," and given in to the inevitable? I suppose in your eyes, it was ridiculous for the US to send arms and supplies to its allies in WWII (including China) to regain their territories. It's a strange view of history.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> As you can see here, Vietnamese are showing their racism. They are saying "Chinese are..." while no Chinese has ever said "Vietnamese are..." Instead, Chinese have only pointed out the objective weakness of Vietnam and its inability to enforce its claims should gunboat diplomacy actually be used. There is no argument about right or wrong, because this thread is not about right or wrong - it is about the objective comparison of Vietnamese military forces to its competitors. By not condemning racism, you are condoning it. Do you see now why Chinese feel apprehensive about Vietnamese? Do you not realize that agreeing with them by saying that Chinese actions are due to preceived slights and historical trauma, rather than legitimate concerns about territorial integrity, is actually a form of racism that says the opinions of Chinese people are worth less than the opinions of Vietnamese and others, simply because of their race?



I have to say, it takes some nerve to twist my previous post into proof of racism against China.

There has been racism, and I haven't commented on it because it happens appallingly often on PDF, and I would have time for nothing else. Since you claim not to have seen it, go to the search field in the upper right hand corner and search for "vietnam monkey" and "vietnam banana" and the like--you will be shocked at what is thrown in the other direction on PDF. I don't see any pure victims, here. But for the record: I reject any and all racist stereotypes, insults, mischaracterizations, or condescention, whether it is by Vietnamese users directed at Chinese users, Chinese users directed at Vietnamese users, or any other combination of parties.

That said, is China really apprehensive about the Vietnamese, given the immense difference in size, strength, and historical direction of invasion? Isn't that like the teenager who murders his parents, and then pleads for mercy from the judge because he's an orphan? I can pity the victim of trauma, but I don't automatically sympathize with his actions simply because he's been traumatized.

There are strong pro-China factions in Vietnam, and in fact, I believe they currently govern Vietnam. Instead of encouraging them to bring Vietnam into China's orbit, China has been spitting in their faces by taking advantage of this one-sided friendliness to unilaterally conclude the territorial disputes, knowing the pro-China faction has neither the military power nor credibility with the people to respond. Are you then shocked that Vietnamese feel humiliated, and turn to others for friendship?



bolo said:


> Right. A Viet dog pretending to know Chinese mindset.



@FairAndUnbiased Case in point.

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## FairAndUnbiased

LeveragedBuyout said:


> That, and the fact that the US decided not to unilaterally seize disputed territories, but rather negotiated with these parties for a final settlement. It would be easier to agree with you if the US claimed the Gulf of Mexico all the way down to Cancun, but unlike China's claims all the way down to Malaysia, we don't go that far.
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly, but this is a function of economic development and financial resources. Mocking Vietnam for doing less science than China is just reaffirming that China has a far larger economy, which isn't saying much.
> 
> 
> 
> Except for ramming and sinking Vietnamese ships in disputed territories, and then dispatching armed Chinese naval vessels to guard Chinese drilling activities in disputed territories, I agree with you.
> 
> 
> 
> You're not really saying that with a straight face, are you? Is there any country that should just roll over simply because it is comparatively weak at a point in time? If so, why did China ever bother fighting back against Japan in WWII? Shouldn't it have simply "recognized its overwhelming weakness," and given in to the inevitable? I suppose in your eyes, it was ridiculous for the US to send arms and supplies to its allies in WWII (including China) to regain their territories. It's a strange view of history.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say, it takes some nerve to twist my previous post into proof of racism against China.
> 
> There has been racism, and I haven't commented on it because it happens appallingly often on PDF, and I would have time for nothing else. Since you claim not to have seen it, go to the search field in the upper right hand corner and search for "vietnam monkey" and "vietnam banana" and the like--you will be shocked at what is thrown in the other direction on PDF. I don't see any pure victims, here. But for the record: I reject any and all racist stereotypes, insults, mischaracterizations, or condescention, whether it is by Vietnamese users directed at Chinese users, Chinese users directed at Vietnamese users, or any other combination of parties.
> 
> That said, is China really apprehensive about the Vietnamese, given the immense difference in size, strength, and historical direction of invasion? Isn't that like the teenager who murders his parents, and then pleads for mercy from the judge because he's an orphan? I can pity the victim of trauma, but I don't automatically sympathize with his actions simply because he's been traumatized.
> 
> There are strong pro-China factions in Vietnam, and in fact, I believe they currently govern Vietnam. Instead of encouraging them to bring Vietnam into China's orbit, China has been spitting in their faces by taking advantage of this one-sided friendliness to unilaterally conclude the territorial disputes, knowing the pro-China faction has neither the military power nor credibility with the people to respond. Are you then shocked that Vietnamese feel humiliated, and turn to others for friendship?
> 
> 
> 
> @FairAndUnbiased Case in point.



1. There is precedent for ramming and sinking fishing boats in disputed territory - your Japanese allies used that against both Chinese and Taiwanese boats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Senkaku_boat_collision_incident

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2008/06/11/160421/Taiwan-fishing.htm

By failing to condemn the Japanese actions, your silence legitimizes them.

2. I'm not mocking them. I am pointing it out so that they recognize their objective weakness. Also, it is to point out that science does not have to do with wealth or size - Kenya is both smaller than and far poorer than Vietnam, yet has comparable scientific output.

3. Mexico gave up because it recognized that Britain and the Soviet Union were not going to help take the 1/3 of its territories that got annexed back. China, on the other hand, has annexed precisely zero km of Vietnamese land, settled the land borders dispute completely diplomatically, and only has maritime disputes remaining. Because of these few remaining maritime disputes, Vietnamese are dreaming of building up an IRBM stockpile. And you are amazed when Chinese laugh at this sort of wild dream?

The provocations actually began with Vietnam. Just look at what Vietnamese are saying: "cutting off the SCS" "blocking straits of Malacca" "sinking merchant ships with Kilos". Who sounds like the provocative party here?



Carlosa said:


> If anything, an Spanish dog and yes, I understand the chinese mindset because I spent plenty of time in china. The truth hurts huh?
> 
> Saddam's era scuds only in your dreams. They are just for deterrence, if china behaves, there is no need to use them.
> 
> I guess you don't read what your fellow chinese friends often say here about vietnamese in this forum? Not only you seem to be brainwashed by chinese government propaganda, but you seem to have selective vision when you read this thread.



LOL ok, you have the most powerful ballistic missile arsenal on the planet.


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> 1. There is precedent for ramming and sinking fishing boats in disputed territory - your Japanese allies used that against both Chinese and Taiwanese boats.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Senkaku_boat_collision_incident
> 
> http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2008/06/11/160421/Taiwan-fishing.htm
> 
> By failing to condemn the Japanese actions, your silence legitimizes them.
> 
> 2. I'm not mocking them. I am pointing it out so that they recognize their objective weakness. Also, it is to point out that science does not have to do with wealth or size - Kenya is both smaller than and far poorer than Vietnam, yet has comparable scientific output.
> 
> 3. Mexico gave up because it recognized that Britain and the Soviet Union were not going to help take the 1/3 of its territories that got annexed back. China, on the other hand, has annexed precisely zero km of Vietnamese land, settled the land borders dispute completely diplomatically, and only has maritime disputes remaining. Because of these few remaining maritime disputes, Vietnamese are dreaming of building up an IRBM stockpile. And you are amazed when Chinese laugh at this sort of wild dream?
> 
> The provocations actually began with Vietnam. Just look at what Vietnamese are saying: "cutting off the SCS" "blocking straits of Malacca" "sinking merchant ships with Kilos". Who sounds like the provocative party here?
> 
> 
> 
> LOL ok, you have the most powerful ballistic missile arsenal on the planet.



Again, incredible selective vision, you don't seem to read when the chinese in this forum talk about what china is going to do to vietnam, etc, etc, are you for real man or are you just joking? Go back into the thread and read for a change. For someone going by the name of "fair an unbiased" you seem to have one hell of a bias.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> If anything, an Spanish dog and yes, I understand the chinese mindset because I spent plenty of time in china. The truth hurts huh?
> 
> 
> 
> Saddam's era scuds only in your dreams. They are just for deterrence, if china behaves, there is no need to use them.
> 
> I guess you don't read what your fellow chinese friends often say here about vietnamese in this forum? Not only you seem to be brainwashed by chinese government propaganda, but you seem to have selective vision when you read this thread.



So you are a Spaniard, but your wife is Vietnamese. Am I right?

We have @Beidou2020 who is German-American, but he supports China because his wife is Chinese.



Viet said:


> don´t deploy any rigs into our eez waters.



It is near our controlled EEZ near the Paracel Islands, while it is your guys who cannot take the status quo.



Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...do you have anything with performance close to iskander missile?



It is still grossly underrated in the US report.

In fact, the DF-26 and DF-27 are our advanced mini ICBMs.

Dong Feng-26C (DF-26C) Archives | Missile ThreatMissile Threat


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## World Citizen

LeveragedBuyout said:


> China may get all of the oil, but it may lose Vietnam to America in the process, which seems like a terrible trade-off, considering it could have had both.
> 
> Note that I didn't mention anything about Mexico's relative lack of scientific achievement.



With or without the USA , Vietnam would never give up the East Sea to China, Why is that ? 2/3 of Vietnam is Mountains and Hills, jungle, rivers, ponds ... So the East Sea is very much essential to Vietnam, if no compromise in the future of East Sea there will be war and and we going to see another David against Goliath.

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## tonyget

LeveragedBuyout said:


> China suffered two large traumas, one in the 19th century, and one in the 20th, that constitute its "Century of Humiliation." A common model for looking at the consequences of traumas in people is the Kübler-Ross model, better known as the five stages of grief. These stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.



The so called "Century of Humiliation" is overly exaggerated, if you look at the actual consequence of foreign invasion in China, you will see it's actually not that much especially compare to other countries which also suffered alot during last 2 centuries. Some got completely dismembered by the West (Ottoman Empire etc), some got ruled by colonist for so long(Indian subcontinent etc), some lost their own language system and still use what colonist left for them(Vietnam, Central Asia etc.), some still has to deal with leftover ethnic issues from colonial era(most of ex-British colony).China didn't lose much territory, nor did China suffer from foreign culture invasion. So I don't see how China's fate could possibly be more miserable than others in terms of being victim of foreign power. The whole victim rhetoric is being promoted by the authority to serve it's political agenda.





LeveragedBuyout said:


> Roughly speaking, the non-reaction in the 19th century might be considered denial, then the upheavals in the early 20th as anger, coming to terms with itself as a new country after WWII as bargaining, the cultural revolution as depression, and then the reforms under Deng Xiaoping as acceptance. I am going to steal Wikipedia's example of the acceptance stage:
> 
> 
> *Acceptance — "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."*
> In this last stage, individuals begin to come to terms with their mortality or inevitable future, or that of a loved one, or other tragic event. This stage varies according to the person's situation. People dying can enter this stage a long time before the people they leave behind, who must pass through their own individual stages of dealing with the grief. This typically comes with a calm, retrospective view for the individual, and a stable mindset.​
> This is China's drive to improve its economic conditions in order to strengthen itself, and fulfill its vow of "never again." This can sometimes manifest itself as overreaction to perceived slights, and a wary defensiveness. I have referred to this in other threads as "aggressive victimhood," but call it whatever you like: China was a victim in the past, and now it's powerful enough to prevent it and do something about it.
> 
> Now on to another conceptual model that I think has some utility in understanding the thinking of some Chinese users here. We have seen suggestions that if China breaks the USD as a reserve currency, it can break US hegemony. We have seen suggestions that since China "does more science," it will be more advanced. We have seen suggestions that if China uses the same gunboat diplomacy that the West used over a century ago, it can accrue the same level of prestige as the West.
> 
> I think it's instructive to examine the cargo cult. I'm going to excerpt from Wikipedia, but read the article if you have time, it's fascinating.
> 
> _The most widely known period of cargo cult activity occurred among the Melanesian islanders in the years during and after World War II. A small population of indigenous peoples observed, often right in front of their dwellings, the largest war ever fought by technologically advanced nations. First, the Japanese arrived with a great deal of supplies and later theAllied forces did likewise.
> 
> The vast amounts of military equipment and supplies that both sides airdropped (or airlifted to airstrips) to troops on these islands meant drastic changes to the lifestyle of the islanders, many of whom had never seen outsiders before. Manufactured clothing, medicine, canned food, tents, weapons and other goods arrived in vast quantities for the soldiers, who often shared some of it with the islanders who were their guides and hosts.
> 
> ...
> 
> With the end of the war, the military abandoned the airbases and stopped dropping cargo. In response, charismatic individuals developed cults among remote Melanesian populations that promised to bestow on their followers deliveries of food, arms, Jeeps, etc. The cult leaders explained that the cargo would be gifts from their own ancestors, or other sources, as had occurred with the outsider armies. In attempts to get cargo to fall by parachute or land in planes or ships again, islanders imitated the same practices they had seen the soldiers, sailors, and airmen use. Cult behaviors usually involved mimicking the day-to-day activities and dress styles of US soldiers, such as performing parade ground drills with wooden or salvaged rifles. The islanders carved headphones from wood and wore them while sitting in fabricated control towers. They waved the landing signals while standing on the runways. They lit signal fires and torches to light up runways and lighthouses.
> 
> In a form of sympathetic magic, many built life-size replicas of aeroplanes out of straw and cut new military-style landing strips out of the jungle, hoping to attract more aeroplanes. The cult members thought that the foreigners had some special connection to the deities and ancestors of the natives, who were the only beings powerful enough to produce such riches._​
> To put it simplistically, I think China saw the trappings of wealth and prestige of the West, and decided that in order to attain such wealth and prestige for itself as well, it needed to do what the Westerners did, without fully appreciating the more profound causes of that power. The West had superior technology, so China needed to "do science." The West had used gunboat diplomacy, so China needed to assert itself in the SCS and ECS. The UK and US had the reserve currencies, so China needed to deprive them of that in order to take their place. And so forth. China didn't preoccupy itself with questions of why the Western culture was able to produce these things; it only knew that to have those things was to have power.
> 
> I really think it's not much more profound than that. Every rising power wants its place under the sun, whether it's Britain rising up through the Spanish, Portuguese, and Dutch empires, or Germany trying to surpass the British Empire, or the US dismantling the British Empire to become leader of the free world.




To put it simple, during the cold war it was all about ideology, not much about nationalism. In fact, communism is fundamentally a form of internationalism, it is ideological oppose to nationalism, there was no ethnic struggles in communism, there was only class struggles. After the cold war ended, communism ideology bankrupted, ex-communism countries fall into a faithless/directionless/confused state. In order to prevent that from happening in China, CCP decided to promoted nationalism, that's why all those traditional value once prohibited in Mao era such as Confucianism now re-emerge again. Nationalism is now the de facto legitimizing ideology of CCP.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I wish, basically everyone wishes in the region, China would copy the ways of what America peacefully contributes to the region. Or Germany does to the region after the defeat in the WW II. to understand China what it does, why it does, one must understand Chinese psyche.
> 
> What is Chinese psyche?
> 
> actually today the Chinese are stuck between "middle kingdom"´s mindset, extreme nationalism, racism, egoism, arrogance and aggression. In this combination, they are worse than the Japanese in their dark times period.
> 
> Do you think they want a peaceful region, a stable neighborhood, a properous Vietnam? Nope. As the foreign minister of Australia Julia Bishop recently put it: China doesn't respect weakness. The only thing Chinese respect is power, or you can put it: violence. Chinese admire US military power. they despise the rest of the world as inferior. the most important thing they want is money and how to accumulate the money. Because they believe money can buy everything including friends or stooge like Cambodia.
> 
> Chinese calculus is so: China is big and rich, so it can have all. Vietnam is small and poor. Conclusion: we should give in their demand and surrender our money to them to make them richer. Otherwise they will come with warships and fighter jets.
> 
> *I bet, if we have a squadron of nuclear submarines with nukes*, Chinese will become peaceful and return to negotiating table. So if you want a peaceful region in Southeast Asia, pls provide us with necessary means.



You won't get that in the next 50 years.


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## FairAndUnbiased

tonyget said:


> that's why all those traditional value once prohibited in Mao era such as Confucianism now re-emerge again. Nationalism is now the de facto legitimizing ideology of CCP.



I disagree. Mao was a nationalist first. He was all about building socialism in one country and using socialism as a tool to build up the country, just like Stalin was. Otherwise, there was no reason for him demand independence, with zero leverage whatsoever, from the USSR in all aspects.


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## Carlosa

tonyget said:


> The so called "Century of Humiliation" is overly exaggerated, if you look at the actual consequence of foreign invasion in China, you will see it's actually not that much especially compare to other countries which also suffered alot during last 2 centuries. Some got completely dismembered by the West (Ottoman Empire etc), some got ruled by colonist for so long(Indian subcontinent etc), some lost their own language system and still use what colonist left for them(Vietnam, Central Asia etc.), some still has to deal with leftover ethnic issues from colonial era(most of ex-British colony).China didn't lose much territory, nor did China suffer from foreign culture invasion. So I don't see how China's fate could possibly be more miserable than others in terms of being victim of foreign power. The whole victim rhetoric is being promoted by the authority to serve it's political agenda.
> 
> 
> To put it simple, during the cold war it was all about ideology, not much about nationalism. In fact, communism is fundamentally a form of internationalism, it is ideological oppose to nationalism, there was no ethnic struggles in communism, there was only class struggles. After the cold war ended, communism ideology bankrupted, ex-communism countries fall into a faithless/directionless/confused state. In order to prevent that from happening in China, CCP decided to promoted nationalism, that's why all those traditional value once prohibited in Mao era such as Confucianism now re-emerge again. Nationalism is now the de facto legitimizing ideology of CCP.



That's very correct; that's why I was telling him that its mainly a cultural issue and that cultural issue also receives a boost from the living conditions in china during the last century, where chinese people went through wars, famines, long periods of poverty and low education or very ideological type of education, etc, etc. When people say that typical mainland chinese are rude, impolite, aggressive, etc, that's in great part a reflection of those living conditions during last century.
People are a byproduct of their environment.

On the other hand, chinese from Singapore, Taiwan, etc didn't have that type of hardships (and the cultural influence has been diluted also) and its easy to see the difference. I would say that Singaporean chinese are at the top of the ladder. Many American chinese, particularly from families that are more culturally open are also like that, they are very nice people. Met many of them when I was living in USA.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> So you are a Spaniard, but your wife is Vietnamese. Am I right?
> 
> We have @Beidou2020 who is German-American, but he supports China because his wife is Chinese.
> /quote]
> 
> Correct, but I support Vietnam because I see Vietnam as the correct party, not because my wife is vietnamese, if my wife were to be chinese I still would have the same position.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Carlosa said:


> That's very correct; that's why I was telling him that its mainly a cultural issue and that cultural issue also receives a boost from the living conditions in china during the last century, where chinese people went through wars, famines, long periods of poverty and low education or very ideological type of education, etc, etc. When people say that typical mainland chinese are rude, impolite, aggressive, etc, that's in great part a reflection of those living conditions during last century.



In general, people are aggressive to those who are aggressive to them. You make aggressive racial comments about Chinese, don't expect no protest, especially when you are the weaker party. You apparently have "defending yourself" and "correcting misunderstandings" confused with "aggression".

When I first came here, literally none of the Chinese members had ill feelings towards Vietnamese. Guess who started the chain of insults?


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> In general, people are aggressive to those who are aggressive to them. You make aggressive racial comments about Chinese, don't expect no protest, especially when you are the weaker party. You apparently have "defending yourself" and "correcting misunderstandings" confused with "aggression".
> 
> When I first came here, literally none of the Chinese members had ill feelings towards Vietnamese. Guess who started the chain of insults?



You got the facts very wrong, the aggressiveness of the chinese members is very well documented here, just go back on the thread. I used to see that same behavior from the chinese members all the time since way before I became a member here, when I just used to come to read.

When you don't like criticism of real facts you call them racist, never mind when I explained why, like I just did and never mind when I speak very well of chinese from Singapore, Taiwan, etc. I fail to see how that qualifies as racist. I guess the truth hurts huh?


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## FairAndUnbiased

Carlosa said:


> You got the facts very wrong, the aggressiveness of the chinese members is very well documented here, just go back on the thread. I used to see that same behavior from the chinese members all the time since way before I became a member here, when I just used to come to read.



It is very easy to refute this: what reason do Chinese have to be aggressive to Vietnamese unless provoked? There's nothing you have that Chinese are jealous of, no crimes that you have committed against Chinese, and are no threat to Chinese in any way.

Meanwhile, many Vietnamese have a chip on their shoulder due to their "victimization" by long gone Chinese empires, conveniently forgetting much more recent crimes by other countries.

I don't know what facts you have, but your previous posts were essentially fact-free. I don't like to generalize an entire people, so I do not want to get into a mud slinging contest based on insults and to lower the quality of this thread. However, if you truly want that sort of time wasting activity, I'm happy to oblige.


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It is very easy to refute this: what reason do Chinese have to be aggressive to Vietnamese unless provoked? There's nothing you have that Chinese are jealous of, no crimes that you have committed against Chinese, and are no threat to Chinese in any way.
> 
> Meanwhile, many Vietnamese have a chip on their shoulder due to their "victimization" by long gone Chinese empires, conveniently forgetting much more recent crimes by other countries.
> 
> I don't know what facts you have, but your previous posts were essentially fact-free. I don't like to generalize an entire people, so I do not want to get into a mud slinging contest based on insults and to lower the quality of this thread. However, if you truly want that sort of time wasting activity, I'm happy to oblige.



Maybe you didn't read this, I think its self explanatory.

"That's very correct; that's why I was telling him that its mainly a cultural issue and that cultural issue also receives a boost from the living conditions in china during the last century, where chinese people went through wars, famines, long periods of poverty and low education or very ideological type of education, etc, etc. When people say that typical mainland chinese are rude, impolite, aggressive, etc, that's in great part a reflection of those living conditions during last century.
People are a byproduct of their environment.

On the other hand, chinese from Singapore, Taiwan, etc didn't have that type of hardships (and the cultural influence has been diluted also) and its easy to see the difference. I would say that Singaporean chinese are at the top of the ladder. Many American chinese, particularly from families that are more culturally open are also like that, they are very nice people. Met many of them when I was living in USA."

I like to talk about countries's peoples in general terms because every country has typical charactheristics, but at the individual level, I never do, each individual is a unique case, there are bad, good individuals and everything in between in all countries, that's how I see this issue and I explained this before. Time to go back to topic.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Carlosa said:


> Maybe you didn't read this, I think its self explanatory.
> 
> I like to talk about countries's peoples in general terms because every country has typical charactheristics, but at the individual level, I never do, each individual is a unique case, there are bad, good individuals and everything in between in all countries, that's how I see this issue and I explained this before.



OK. The Vietnamese high school graduation rate in Japan is 40%. The Japanese rate is 99%.

Vietnamese people in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kenya produces equal scientific research despite having 60% of Vietnam's GDP per capita and half the population.

SJR - International Science Ranking

There are some conclusions (in general, of course, the way you think is appropriate) that you can draw from these facts - do you want to start thinking about those?


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## kolinsky

FairAndUnbiased said:


> It is very easy to refute this: what reason do Chinese have to be aggressive to Vietnamese unless provoked? There's nothing you have that Chinese are jealous of, no crimes that you have committed against Chinese, and are no threat to Chinese in any way.
> 
> Meanwhile, many Vietnamese have a chip on their shoulder due to their "victimization" by long gone Chinese empires, conveniently forgetting much more recent crimes by other countries.
> 
> I don't know what facts you have, but your previous posts were essentially fact-free. I don't like to generalize an entire people, so I do not want to get into a mud slinging contest based on insults and to lower the quality of this thread. However, if you truly want that sort of time wasting activity, I'm happy to oblige.


I am tired about the hating story. Withiout our enforcement, there is no country named Viet Nam. That was a big mistake.


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> OK. The Vietnamese high school graduation rate in Japan is 40%. The Japanese rate is 99%.
> 
> Vietnamese people in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Kenya produces equal scientific research despite having 60% of Vietnam's GDP per capita and half the population.
> 
> SJR - International Science Ranking
> 
> There are some conclusions (in general, of course, the way you think is appropriate) that you can draw from these facts - do you want to start thinking about those?



I'm not worry about any conclusions based on actual facts. There is only one reality, reality just *IS* and doesn't care how people view things, its blind to that.

I'd like to add that I'm not wearing the pink glasses. I'm very well aware of plenty of things in Vietnam that are wrong or not good.

Time to go back to topic.


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## Viet

kolinsky said:


> I am tired about the hating story. Withiout our *enforcement*, there is no country named Viet Nam. That was a big mistake.


what enforcement?

the long served Prime Minister of Vietnam Phạm Văn Đồng revealed how the Chinese delegation to Geneve peace conference betrayed Vietnam by siding with the Western power with the aim to keep Vietnam devided. Yes, your dirty betrayal was one of the reasons for the war with America.








FairAndUnbiased said:


> 1. There is precedent for ramming and sinking fishing boats in disputed territory - your Japanese allies used that against both Chinese and Taiwanese boats.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Senkaku_boat_collision_incident
> 
> http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2008/06/11/160421/Taiwan-fishing.htm
> 
> By failing to condemn the Japanese actions, your silence legitimizes them.
> 
> 2. I'm not mocking them. I am pointing it out so that they recognize their objective weakness. Also, it is to point out that science does not have to do with wealth or size - Kenya is both smaller than and far poorer than Vietnam, yet has comparable scientific output.
> 
> 3. Mexico gave up because it recognized that Britain and the Soviet Union were not going to help take the 1/3 of its territories that got annexed back. China, on the other hand, has annexed precisely zero km of Vietnamese land, settled the land borders dispute completely diplomatically, and only has maritime disputes remaining. Because of these few remaining maritime disputes, Vietnamese are dreaming of building up an IRBM stockpile. And you are amazed when Chinese laugh at this sort of wild dream?
> 
> The provocations actually began with Vietnam. Just look at what Vietnamese are saying: "cutting off the SCS" "blocking straits of Malacca" "sinking merchant ships with Kilos". Who sounds like the provocative party here?
> 
> 
> 
> LOL ok, you have the most powerful ballistic missile arsenal on the planet.


you are just a clown.

some time ago, a chinese poster claims Vietnam is poorer than Sudan. Now you claim Vietnam has done less science than Kenya. What next? Vietnam has less toilets than Burundi? Even if it is true, who cares? Like many other chinese posters, let me guess you are keen to compare Vietnam with some poor african nations to prove how weak we are? Should I give you some euros to buy a Pho?

we will never give up our territories. if you want ours, then you must start a war. do it, stop barking. sure, we will bring death and sorrow to China if you dare to attack us. Don´t make the mistake and assume we will sit idle and do nothing.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You won't get that in the next 50 years.


do you want to bet?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> do you want to bet?



I can bet for 2020 that you won't remotely have the sign of the nuke.

After that timeline, there is no possible for you to acquire the nuke.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I can bet for 2020 that you won't remotely have the sign of the nuke.
> 
> After that timeline, there is no possible for you to acquire the nuke.


why after 2020 no chance? is there anything I should know?


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## kolinsky

Viet said:


> what enforcement?
> 
> the long served Prime Minister of Vietnam Phạm Văn Đồng revealed how the Chinese delegation to Geneve peace conference betrayed Vietnam by siding with the Western power with the aim to keep Vietnam devided. Yes, your dirty betrayal was one of the reasons for the war with America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are just a clown.
> 
> some time ago, a chinese poster claims Vietnam is poorer than Sudan. Now you claim Vietnam has done less science than Kenya. What next? Vietnam has less toilets than Burundi? Even if it is true, who cares? Like many other chinese posters, let me guess you are keen to compare Vietnam with some poor african nations to prove how weak we are? Should I give you some euros to buy a Pho?
> 
> we will never give up our territories. if you want ours, then you must start a war. do it, stop barking. sure, we will bring death and sorrow to China if you dare to attack us. Don´t make the mistake and assume we will sit idle and do nothing.



Who want your territories? China? Half of Viet Nam is under control of China in 1945, did we want your territories? Do you have any envidence to support your dream? WE DO NOT NEED YOUR TERRITORIES. If we want to there is no country named Viet Nam. 

The war between Viet Nam and USA is our fault? Whatever Viet Nam attacked USA or USA attacked VN, there was none of our business.


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## Viet

Vietnam Coast Guard

new highspeed vessel, coded CSB 421 build by Viet Czech Technology Joint-Stock Company at the Vung Tau.
13.5m-long, 3.5m-wide, two engines with 600-horsepower, capable of carrying 3 tons of goods and 12 people, costs $570,000.


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## World Citizen

LeveragedBuyout said:


> There are strong pro-China factions in Vietnam, and in fact, I believe they currently govern Vietnam. Instead of encouraging them to bring Vietnam into China's orbit, China has been spitting in their faces by taking advantage of this one-sided friendliness to unilaterally conclude the territorial disputes, knowing the pro-China faction has neither the military power nor credibility with the people to respond. Are you then shocked that Vietnamese feel humiliated, and turn to others for friendship?



you are right, before the Rig came, there are very strong pro-China Factions control the government , Nguyen Tan Dung (PM) Nguyen Phu Trong (Secretary ) Truong Tan Sang ( party leader) even Phung Quang Thanh (minister of defense) , they are all pro-China , Because before the rig , many incidents happens to Vietnamese fishermen, they got rams , shoot, rob them of their equipments and boat , but the government always keep quieted , and when the Rig came , I was happy to see this Rig, I know this rig will be gone soon or late, but this Rig will give Vietnamese realize what happened and like you said "China spitting in those Vietnamese leaders faces by taking advantage of their pro-China ", and then we saws riots and protests gone violent again China everywhere and this is the 1st time since Communist party took over the country in 1945 .

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## ChineseTiger1986

World Citizen said:


> you are right, before the Rig came, there are very strong pro-China Factions control the government , *Nguyen Tan Dung* (PM) Nguyen Phu Trong (Secretary ) Truong Tan Sang ( party leader) even Phung Quang Thanh (minister of defense) , they are all pro-China , Because before the rig , many incidents happens to Vietnamese fishermen, they got rams , shoot, rob them of their equipments and boat , but the government always keep quieted , and when the Rig came , I was happy to see this Rig, I know this rig will be gone soon or late, but this Rig will give Vietnamese realize what happened and like you said "China spitting in those Vietnamese leaders faces by taking advantage of their pro-China ", and then we saws riots and protests gone violent again China everywhere and this is the 1st time since Communist party took over the country in 1945 .



Nguyen Tan Dung was never pro-China, this guys always proposed to join the Asia-Pacific pivot of the US in order to contain China.

Our rig was working within the EEZ of the Paracel Islands, not the Spratly Islands.

It is your government who was looking to divert attention from its poor economic performance.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nguyen Tan Dung was never pro-China, this guys always proposed to join the Asia-Pacific pivot of the US in order to contain China.
> 
> Our rig was working within the EEZ of the Paracel Islands, not the Spratly Islands.
> 
> It is your government who was looking to divert attention from its poor economic performance.


Eez is defined by international law, Unclos. As everybody knows, China illegally seized the Paracels by force. As such the world community does not recognise your occupation, nor Eez around Paracels.

Your deployment of the oil rig was an attempt to challenge the status quo, creating eez. That is the red line for Vietnam. Our government must defend the national interest, no matter the cost, no matter pro or anti China.

Diverting attention from poor economic performance? do you think we will sit idle and accept your aggression if there is a economic boom? what a delusion.

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## Ayan81

Viet said:


> Vietnam Coast Guard
> 
> new highspeed vessel, coded CSB 421 build by Viet Czech Technology Joint-Stock Company at the Vung Tau.
> 13.5m-long, 3.5m-wide, two engines with 600-horsepower, capable of carrying 3 tons of goods and 12 people, costs $570,000.
> 
> 
> View attachment 67827



$570k for that? isn't it overpriced


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## Viet

Ayan81 said:


> $570k for that? isn't it overpriced


the vessel is expensive because many parts were imported from overseas. it is the first of this kind. perhaps if we produce more, the cost of a vessel will be cheaper.



kolinsky said:


> Who want your territories? China? Half of Viet Nam is under control of China in 1945, did we want your territories? Do you have any envidence to support your dream? WE DO NOT NEED YOUR TERRITORIES*. If we want to there is no country named Viet Nam. *
> 
> The war between Viet Nam and USA is our fault? Whatever Viet Nam attacked USA or USA attacked VN, there was none of our business.


provide sources showing that China controlled half of Viet Nam in 1945!
sure, you do want our territories as seen in your invasions of Paracels and Spratlys.

what do you mean with the bold part? genocide of our people? is it your dream?

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## kolinsky

Viet said:


> the vessel is expensive because many parts were imported from overseas. it is the first of this kind. perhaps if we produce more, the cost of a vessel will be cheaper.
> 
> 
> provide sources showing that China controlled half of Viet Nam in 1945!
> sure, you do want our territories as seen in your invasions of Paracels and Spratlys.
> 
> what do you mean with the bold part? genocide of our people? is it your dream?


The north Viet Nam was occupied by Chinese troops after ww2. Is there any question?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Eez is defined by international law, Unclos. As everybody knows, China illegally seized the Paracels by force. As such the world community does not recognise your occupation, nor Eez around Paracels.
> 
> Your deployment of the oil rig was an attempt to challenge the status quo, creating eez. That is the red line for Vietnam. Our government must defend the national interest, no matter the cost, no matter pro or anti China.
> 
> Diverting attention from poor economic performance? do you think we will sit idle and accept your aggression if there is a economic boom? what a delusion.



Paracel right now is ours, so we can do whatever we want, and you should feel lucky if we are not asking you to give back the Spratly Islands which you have illegally occupied.

We re-claimed it from the ROV back in 1974, and your government did acknowledge our sovereignty on Paracel, but you have immediately changed your color after you became united.

Who is the double-faced backstabber here?



Carlosa said:


> Really? I think its the other way around, read this article:
> 
> *It's Not 2008 For Chinese Companies — It's Worse*
> 
> It's Not 2008 For Chinese Companies — It's Worse - Yahoo Finance



Sure, according to the West, China is collapsing every year.

It was collapsing since 1949, until now it is poised to take the crown from the US as the largest economy in the world, and it is still collapsing.

BTW, stop derailing the topic, you will be reported.


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## World Citizen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Paracel right now is ours, so we can do whatever we want, and you should feel lucky if we are not asking you to give back the Spratly Islands which you have illegally occupied.
> 
> We re-claimed it from the ROV back in 1974, and your government did acknowledge our sovereignty on Paracel, but you have immediately changed your color after you become united.
> 
> Who is the double-faced backstabber here?



Take it back, what's stopping you from it ? are you guys scare ? Vietnam control around 27 or 28 of those rocks and islands and China only 6 or 7 , Paracel is not your and never will be, any Vietnamese leaders or governments agree or acknowledge its belong to China will be brought down immediately, Vietnamese people never allows that to happen, look at the rig as an example.

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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Paracel right now is ours, so we can do whatever we want, and you should feel lucky if we are not asking you to give back the Spratly Islands which you have illegally occupied.
> 
> We re-claimed it from the ROV back in 1974, and your government did acknowledge our sovereignty on Paracel, but you have immediately changed your color after you become united.
> 
> Who is the double-faced backstabber here?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, according to the West, China is collapsing every year.
> 
> It was collapsing since 1949, until now it is poised to take the crown from the US as the largest economy in the world, and it is still collapsing.
> 
> BTW, stop derailing the topic, you will be reported.



Typical chinese delusional version of reality.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> what enforcement?
> some time ago, a chinese poster claims Vietnam is poorer than Sudan. Now you claim Vietnam has done less science than Kenya. What next? Vietnam has less toilets than Burundi? Even if it is true, who cares? Like many other chinese posters, let me guess you are keen to compare Vietnam with some poor african nations to prove how weak we are? Should I give you some euros to buy a Pho?
> 
> we will never give up our territories. if you want ours, then you must start a war. do it, stop barking. sure, we will bring death and sorrow to China if you dare to attack us. Don´t make the mistake and assume we will sit idle and do nothing.



Your territories? Good, I see you no longer claim the Paracels are yours. You are learning.

So you're gonna launch an expeditionary war into China?



World Citizen said:


> Take it back, what's stopping you from it ? are you guys scare ? Vietnam control around 27 or 28 of those rocks and islands and China only 6 or 7 , Paracel is not your and never will be, any Vietnamese leaders or governments agree or acknowledge its belong to China will be brought down immediately, Vietnamese people never allows that to happen, look at the rig as an example.



Try landing a ship on the Paracels. The Spartlys are in a temporary state of illegal occupation by Vietnamese forces and the problem will be solved at the time and method of our choosing. No one is scared because Chinese are already winning: Chinese have over half the total disputed islands already and overwhelmingly greater expeditionary warfare capabilities.


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## World Citizen

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Try landing a ship on the Paracels. The Spartlys are in a temporary state of illegal occupation by Vietnamese forces and the problem will be solved at the time and method of our choosing. No one is scared because Chinese are already winning: Chinese have over half the total disputed islands already and overwhelmingly greater expeditionary warfare capabilities.



Where do u got information that Chinese own over half total disputed islands and the Chinese winning? Vietnamese own lots of oil rigs in the area of Paracel Islands and Spartly islands, all in the Vietnamese EEZ zone. I thinks the Chinese scare, they are bunch of gutless thugs just go by the number . They thinks with overwhelming number is certain win, like the 1979 border war with Vietnamese eh ..  .

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## FairAndUnbiased

World Citizen said:


> Where do u got information that Chinese own over half total disputed islands and the Chinese winning? Vietnamese own lots of oil rigs in the area of Paracel Islands and Spartly islands, all in the Vietnamese EEZ zone. I thinks the Chinese scare, they are bunch of gutless thugs just go by the number .  They thinks with overwhelming number is certain win, like the 1979 border war with Vietnamese eh ..  .



Paracels are not half the disputed islands?

Numbers? No, it is a choice - of not going to total war. Vietnam was only able to kill a tiny fraction of the soldiers in the war: it was unable to launch expeditionary warfare into China and take anything in return, it was unable to surround and destroy all the invading soldiers.


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## Viet

Airforce

new radar for MIG-21: RP-21 Sapfir
the Mikoyan new radar enables MIG-21 to carry out missions day and night, in all weather conditions. the new radar replaces SRD-5M radar, and is able to scan 20 degrees vertically and 60 degrees horizontally. It is cost saving and better than nothing, but purchase of modern fighters such as SU-35 would be necessary to catch up with the chinese.

Khám phá radar trang bị trên MiG-21 Việt Nam

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## Viet

Navy

September 18, Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh visited Ba Son shipyard. 6 more fast-attack missile boats Molniya are under construction and will be completed by 2017.

Việt Nam sắp đóng hoàn thành sáu tàu tên lửa Molniya

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## Carlosa

Another good article to read: 

Exclusive: Courting Vietnam, U.S. prepares to ease arms embargo | Reuters

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## hans

You need at least Su27 or Su30
Mig 21 is a very old fighter. 
Hardly any effect against modern fighter that China have...



Viet said:


> Airforce
> 
> new radar for MIG-21: RP-21 Sapfir
> the Mikoyan new radar enables MIG-21 to carry out missions day and night, in all weather conditions. the new radar replaces SRD-5M radar, and is able to scan 20 degrees vertically and 60 degrees horizontally. It is cost saving and better than nothing, but purchase of modern fighters such as SU-35 would be necessary to catch up with the chinese.


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## Viet

hans said:


> You need at least Su27 or Su30
> Mig 21 is a very old fighter.
> Hardly any effect against modern fighter that China have...


we have 12 Su27, 36 of Su30, and a lot of old fighters Su22 and Mig21. Sure, as the latter are no match to modern combat aircraft, we don´t use them to engage in air combat but to fight ground and sea targets. the Mig21/Su22 aircraft can carry air to surface missile Kh-25/25M (range 10km).











DEFENSE STUDIES: Vietnam Fighter Get More New Missiles


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another good article to read:
> 
> Exclusive: Courting Vietnam, U.S. prepares to ease arms embargo | Reuters


the article says Lockheed P-3 Orion could be the first item the US exports to Vietnam. Do you think the aircraft is sophisticated enough for sub hunting in the south china sea or do we need the new modern Boeing P-8 Poseidon?

besides, the US wants to sell the aircaft with no weapons onboard, unarmed. So the capacity is pretty much limited.


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## hans

Enough for Philippine... 



Viet said:


> we have 12 Su27, 36 of Su30, and a lot of old fighters Su22 and Mig21. Sure, as the latter are no match to modern combat aircraft, we don´t use them to engage in air combat but to fight ground and sea targets. the Mig21/Su22 aircraft can carry air to surface missile Kh-25/25M (range 10km).


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## hans

Why Vietnam need these anti-submarine aircraft?
If any conflict with China, these planes can hardly survive.
And other southeast Asia countries don`t have submarine in south China sea..



Viet said:


> the article says Lockheed P-3 Orion could be the first item the US exports to Vietnam. Do you think the aircraft is sophisticated enough for sub hunting in the south china sea or do we need the new modern Boeing P-8 Poseidon?
> 
> besides, the US wants to sell the aircaft with no weapons onboard, unarmed. So the capacity is pretty much limited.


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## Viet

hans said:


> Enough for Philippine...


the pinoys are our friend  we both have agreed to seek a peaceful solution for the sea dispute. unlike you.



hans said:


> *Why *Vietnam need these anti-submarine aircraft?
> If any conflict with China, these planes can hardly survive.
> And other *southeast Asia countries don`t have submarine* in south China sea..


silly question, we will use them for hunting chinese subs. what else? you have too many subs in the inventory. in a conflict, these anti-submarine aircraft will be escorted by fighter jets. that is a common sense.

you missed some info, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia have subs. who tells you, they don´t deploy subs into the south china sea?

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## hans

Is Philippine your friends? Haha....
These fighters will also be shot down at the first time...
So it make no sense to send anti-submarine aircraft that are more easier to shoot down...



Viet said:


> the pinoys are our friend  we both have agreed to seek a peaceful solution for the sea dispute. unlike you.
> 
> 
> silly question, we will use them for hunting chinese subs. what else? you have too many subs in the inventory. in a conflict, these anti-submarine aircraft will be escorted by fighter jets. that is a common sense.
> 
> you missed some info, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia have subs. who tells you, they don´t deploy subs into the south china sea?


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## Viet

hans said:


> Is Philippine your friends? Haha....


yes, we played volleyball and drunk beer at the last encounter in the south china sea.
Philippine, Vietnamese troops drink beer, play volleyball on disputed isle | KhmerTimes | News Portal Cambodia |







hans said:


> These fighters will also be shot down at the first time...
> So it make no sense to send anti-submarine aircraft that are more easier to shoot down...


if people folllow your logic, we should do nothing because everything we send out can be shot down by the mighty dragon


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the article says Lockheed P-3 Orion could be the first item the US exports to Vietnam. Do you think the aircraft is sophisticated enough for sub hunting in the south china sea or do we need the new modern Boeing P-8 Poseidon?
> 
> besides, the US wants to sell the aircaft with no weapons onboard, unarmed. So the capacity is pretty much limited.



Actually, I don't know why Vietnam is so fixated on the P-3C Orion. Its a second hand aircraft, the technology is old now, so it needs to be upgraded. It makes more sense in my opinion to buy the C-295 MPA / ASW from Airbus. Airbus also does the upgrades for the P-3C Orion and its the same equipment that they install on the C-295 MPA / ASW, better buy a new aircraft that already comes ready to go and with weapons (6 pylons for anti ship missiles and or torpedoes. 

Forget about the P-8 Poseidon, not only is very expensive, but many things in it don't work, they are working on trying to fix it. Its one of those situations with new american equipment that is very advanced and it has a lot issues ala F-35 style. A white elephant at this point.



hans said:


> Why Vietnam need these anti-submarine aircraft?
> If any conflict with China, these planes can hardly survive.
> And other southeast Asia countries don`t have submarine in south China sea..



Why china keeps building warships? US submarines will sink the whole chinese fleet in a couple of days (at most) if war stars (which is probably just a matter of time?)



hans said:


> And other southeast Asia countries don`t have submarine in south China sea..



You don't seem to be aware that Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia have submarines.

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## BoQ77

anti sub aircrafts are for tracking illegal activities of Chinese subs in our sea.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Actually, I don't know why Vietnam is so fixated on the P-3C Orion. Its a second hand aircraft, the technology is old now, so it needs to be upgraded. It makes more sense in my opinion to buy the *C-295 MPA / ASW* from Airbus. Airbus also does the upgrades for the P-3C Orion and its the same equipment that they install on the C-295 MPA / ASW, better buy a new aircraft that already comes ready to go and with weapons (6 pylons for anti ship missiles and or torpedoes.
> 
> Forget about the P-8 Poseidon, not only is very expensive, but many things in it don't work, they are working on trying to fix it. Its one of those situations with new american equipment that is very advanced and it has a lot issues ala F-35 style. A white elephant at this point..


I am not sure, but perhaps VN considers P-3 aircraft is a proven ASW tool, while C-295 not. Or we will buy the Airbus aircraft later with ASW and Airborne early warning. That would give us a boost in our defence. the 3 of C-295 airlifter version will come early next year 2015.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I am not sure, but perhaps VN considers P-3 aircraft is a proven ASW tool, while C-295 not. Or we will buy the Airbus aircraft later with ASW and Airborne early warning. That would give us a boost in our defence. the 3 of C-295 airlifter version will come early next year 2015.



Yes, the P-3C Orion its definitely a very proven platform and there is a political aspect to it probably as it is one way to deepen the relationship with USA. Weapons can be added later, after the upgrade anyway.

Also, a few days ago while researching about the C-235 MPA that Indonesia is getting, I bumped into an article that said that Vietnam is negotiating to buy it. The C-235 MPA has a very similar suite as the C-295 MPA and can also have the ASW system. The plane can carry missiles and torpedoes, so maybe VN is playing 2 horses at the same time.

If VN were to go with those 2 planes, then VN would have an interesting 3 layer system for marine patrol:
Small MPA aircraft: C-212 and DHC-6
Medium MPA aircraft: C-235 MPA
Large MPA aircraft: P-3C Orion

Not a bad set up at all.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, the P-3C Orion its definitely a very proven platform and there is a political aspect to it probably as it is one way to deepen the relationship with USA. Weapons can be added later, after the upgrade anyway.
> 
> Also, a few days ago while researching about the *C-235 MPA* that Indonesia is getting, I bumped into an article that said that Vietnam is negotiating to buy it. The C-235 MPA has a very similar suite as the C-295 MPA and can also have the ASW system. The plane can carry missiles and torpedoes, so maybe VN is playing 2 horses at the same time.
> 
> If VN were to go with those 2 planes, then VN would have an interesting 3 layer system for marine patrol:
> Small MPA aircraft: C-212 and DHC-6
> Medium MPA aircraft: C-235 MPA
> Large MPA aircraft: P-3C Orion
> 
> Not a bad set up at all.


interesting news with buying patrol aircraft from Indonesia, will be the first time ever then if happens


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> interesting news with buying patrol aircraft from Indonesia, will be the first time ever then if happens



The C-235 MPA is a coproduction between Indonesia and Airbus. Indonesia makes the ones for Asia and Airbus makes the ones for Europe, etc.


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## hans

Vietnam need air defense missile to protect themselves..
These anti-submarine and ASW can hardly survive too long if any war...

Are you kidding with US submarine? 
China will avoid operation outside first island chain.
And within first island chain where China can seize the air control, these submarine is not hard to hunt...
Just like the Vietnam submarine, once shoot, the submarine will be found and sink.. 



Carlosa said:


> Actually, I don't know why Vietnam is so fixated on the P-3C Orion. Its a second hand aircraft, the technology is old now, so it needs to be upgraded. It makes more sense in my opinion to buy the C-295 MPA / ASW from Airbus. Airbus also does the upgrades for the P-3C Orion and its the same equipment that they install on the C-295 MPA / ASW, better buy a new aircraft that already comes ready to go and with weapons (6 pylons for anti ship missiles and or torpedoes.
> 
> Forget about the P-8 Poseidon, not only is very expensive, but many things in it don't work, they are working on trying to fix it. Its one of those situations with new american equipment that is very advanced and it has a lot issues ala F-35 style. A white elephant at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Why china keeps building warships? US submarines will sink the whole chinese fleet in a couple of days (at most) if war stars (which is probably just a matter of time?)
> 
> 
> 
> You don't seem to be aware that Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia have submarines.



You take the nearby island from these Philippine guys in the 1970s...
And you both claim the island under others`s control... 

Frankly the Vietnam is too weak comparing with China..
The only trouble Vietnam can make to China, should be buy more air defense missile and deploy on the south Vietnam..
Avoid conflict in north part of south China sea and take the advantage of physical distance in south part of south China sea.
Could be some trouble to China



Viet said:


> yes, we played volleyball and drunk beer at the last encounter in the south china sea.
> 
> if people folllow your logic, we should do nothing because everything we send out can be shot down by the mighty dragon


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The C-235 MPA is a coproduction between Indonesia and Airbus. Indonesia makes the ones for Asia and Airbus makes the ones for Europe, etc.


appears Indo makes a good job 



hans said:


> Vietnam need air defense missile to protect themselves..
> These anti-submarine and ASW can hardly survive too long if any war...
> 
> Are you kidding with US submarine?
> China will avoid operation outside first island chain.
> And within first island chain where China can seize the air control, these submarine is not hard to hunt...
> Just like the Vietnam submarine, once shoot, the submarine will be found and sink..
> 
> 
> 
> You take the nearby island from these Philippine guys in the 1970s...
> And you both claim the island under others`s control...
> 
> Frankly the Vietnam is too weak comparing with China..
> The only trouble Vietnam can make to China, should be buy more air defense missile and deploy on the south Vietnam..
> Avoid conflict in north part of south China sea and take the advantage of physical distance in south part of south China sea.
> Could be some trouble to China


you speak as if you are a military superpower now. in reality the PLA is untested. still.


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## Viet

port visit to Saigon: 
HMAS Larrakia - Armidale class patrol boat of the Royal Australian Navy


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## Viet

old but still good

P-35 Shaddock at Brigade 679: weight 7t, speed 0.9 mach, range 550km, armed with either a 1,000 kg high explosive or a 350 kt nuclear warhead. 

Khám phá: Tên lửa "khủng" như tên lửa hạt nhân của Việt Nam

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## Viet

*Cam Ranh bay*


*



*

*



*


*



*


*



*

*



*

*



*


*



*

*



*

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## Viet

female police and army officers

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> appears Indo makes a good job
> 
> 
> you speak as if you are a military superpower now. in reality the PLA is untested. still.



China will have 10 Aegis DDGs and 10 fast-attack nuclear subs deployed in the SCS, and not forget the additional 20 AIP subs.

Vietnam's navy is too weak and small in comparison, while your training quality/efficiency is also nowhere as good as China's.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China will have 10 Aegis DDGs and 10 fast-attack nuclear subs deployed in the SCS, and not forget the additional 20 AIP subs.


we are interested in buying of 6 P3 aircraft. the hunting season can begin next year when we receive them 







ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Vietnam's navy is too weak and small in comparison, while your training quality/efficiency is also nowhere as good as China's.


we started late with the modernizing the navy. give us some more time.


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## Carlosa

Two very good articles that clearly expose the lack of validity of the fictitious chinese claims to the south china sea:

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/historical-fiction-china’s-south-china-sea-claims

South China Sea: Still no evidence of historical Chinese claims - The Nation

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> we are interested in buying of 6 P3 aircraft. the hunting season can begin next year when we receive them



Try about P8, because recently the USN has just deployed one of these aircrafts to track down our Type 095 SSN, and it just failed.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Viet said:


> we are interested in buying of 6 P3 aircraft. the hunting season can begin next year when we receive them
> 
> we started late with the modernizing the navy. give us some more time.



At the rate you are progressing vs. the PLA, more time only means the difference gets bigger.

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## Viet

The sole prototype of T-54M3. there are rumors the project will resume.












loading weapons






another missile corvette (Molniya) near completion

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Two very good articles that clearly expose the lack of validity of the fictitious chinese claims to the south china sea:
> 
> http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/historical-fiction-china’s-south-china-sea-claims
> 
> South China Sea: Still no evidence of historical Chinese claims - The Nation


just saying we (chinese) were the first who discovered the sea and waters is too little to back up the claim.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> At the rate you are progressing vs. the PLA, more time only means the difference gets bigger.


china is always bigger in landmass and more populous than vietnam. that is not a secret. nobody has a problem at all with this reality. our country just has a problem if you begin to abuse this power to intiminate us.


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## Viet

MIG-21 with short-range air-to-air missile R-60: infrared homing, speed mach 2.7, range 8km.





Su-30 with Kh-29 antiship missile, warhead 320kg, speed 1,250kmh, range 30km, able to sink a 10,000t enemy warship. as per SIPRI, Vietnam airforce has more than 100 Kh-29 missiles.
Kh-29 - Tên lửa đối đất có đầu đạn "khủng" nhất Việt Nam | soha.vn


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## henry he

Viet said:


> That would be nice. But I´m afraid that India won´t sell to Vietnam because your government fears Chinese counteraction.


blamos is only a joke ...


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## Carlosa

henry he said:


> blamos is only a joke ...



The actual joke is you, you can't even spell the name: Brahmos, not blamos.........

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## AMDR

Vietnam's new Kilo-class submarines from Russia

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## henry he

Carlosa said:


> The actual joke is you, you can't even spell the name: Brahmos, not blamos.........


it is not so famous ,so what as if i don't spell right ?


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## Jlaw

Viet said:


> The sole prototype of T-54M3. there are rumors the project will resume.
> View attachment 93099
> 
> 
> View attachment 93105
> 
> 
> 
> loading weapons
> View attachment 93100
> 
> 
> 
> another missile corvette (Molniya) near completion
> View attachment 93108


Need paint job. Go to Alibaba, buy 100 cans and get bulk discount.


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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Need paint job. Go to Alibaba, buy 100 cans and get bulk discount.


go trolling elsewhere idiot!
by the way, I bought shares of alibaba, now a piece of the company belongs to me.



henry he said:


> it is not so famous ,so what as if i don't spell right ?


really? I am curious why Xi Jinping feels the necessity to invest $20b to India for the first time ever. Is he trying to pay India the price for not selling brahmos to vietnam?

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## Viet

Navy

25/9: another gunship TT400TP class, coded HQ-275 enters service. manufactured by the Hong Ha shipyard, 480t, speed of 32 nautical miles per hour, range 2,500 nautical miles, can operate nonstop for 30 days, equipped with AK-610 artillery, air-defense missile and IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) radar system.

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## henry he

Viet said:


> go trolling elsewhere idiot!
> by the way, I bought shares of alibaba, now a piece of the company belongs to me.
> 
> 
> really? I am curious why Xi Jinping feels the necessity to invest $20b to India for the first time ever. Is he trying to pay India the price for not selling brahmos to vietnam?


it is only business,


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## Viet

7/9: Test firing an improved version of medium range anti aircraft missile Pechora S-125-2TM. the from Vietnam made improvement increases the accuracy.

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## Viet

Images of factory Irkut (Russia) where SU-30 aircraft for Vietnam are assembled.
_





























_

_















_

_
_

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## Viet

_@Carlosa Vietnam Foreign Minister Minh is scheduled to visit Washington by tomorrow. he will meet John Kerry. I think we can expect some positive outcomes. Minh is a pro-US man. What is your opinion?_

*What to Expect If the US Lifts Its Vietnam Arms Embargo | The Diplomat*
What are the expected short-term effects of the U.S. lifting its arms embargo on Vietnam?





By Ankit Panda
September 29, 2014

Last week, I had the pleasure of participating in a panel discussion at the Asia Society with Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, who was in New York City to attend the United Nations General Assembly. During the Q&A portion of the event, Min called for the United States to lift its embargo on lethal arms sales to Vietnam, describing the embargo as “abnormal.” He went on to imply that relations between Vietnam and the United States will be normal once the ban is lifted:






_“Nearly 20 years ago, we normalized relations with the United States and in 2013 we set up a comprehensive partnership with the United States. So the relation[ship] is normal and the ban on the lethal weapons to Vietnam is abnormal. So we lift the ban, meaning that the relation is normal, even though we have normalized the relation[ship] 20 years ago.” _

Minh is heading to Washington D.C. in early October for discussions with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry while U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is scheduled for a trip to Vietnam later this year.

Minh’s remarks came less than 24 hours after a _Reuters_ exclusive report cited comments by senior U.S. officials suggesting that the embargo would be on the agenda during Minh’s visit to the United States. According to that report, the Lockheed P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft may be one of the first items on Vietnam’s wish-list. The P-3 would be a major capability boost for the Vietnamese navy as it seeks to increase its maritime patrol and reconnaissance capabilities. The P-3 is also adept in anti-surface ship and anti-submarine warfare.

The P-3 has an estimated unit cost of $36 million. Within the United States, there is broad support in both the executive and the legislative for bringing the U.S. and Vietnam closer amid increasing Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea. Lifting the embargo represents one of the surest ways for the United States to reap important diplomatic dividends from Vietnam in the region as it seeks to bolster its pivot to Asia. One other such critical area for increasing cooperation is Vietnam’s potential accession to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which remains a work-in-progress.

When asked if the lifting of the U.S. lethal arms embargo would upset China, Minh seemed at ease, remarking, ”If we do not buy weapons from the United States, we still buy [weapons] from other countries. So, why should China be bothered by that?” At no point did he deny Vietnam’s ongoing multi-billion dollar military modernization effort, which is aimed primarily at countering Chinese advances in the South China Sea. Earlier this year, in May, China placed an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam as part of its exclusive economic zone under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). That incident exposed the growing differences between Vietnam and China, two countries that once enjoyed close relations owing to inter-communist party solidarity (indeed, following the oil rig incident, Vietnam’s defense minister described it as a petty disagreement between “brothers”).

While Minh addressed the issue of the U.S. arms embargo in the context of Vietnam’s relationship with China, he was careful to emphasize that his country sees international law and multilateralism as the way forward in the South China Sea. ”Never before have we seen a greater risk for miscalculation and incidents that might escalate into military conflicts, as in the past few months,” he said. However, during his opening remarks, he noted that “Vietnam seeks to resolve the disputes in the South China Sea by available peaceful means, based on the rule of international law.”

For Vietnam, while the United States can be an appealing partner for defense procurement, there are other compelling partners, including Russia and India. During a visit to Hanoi earlier in September, Indian President Pranab Mukherjee signed a memorandum of understanding that included the extension of a $100 million credit line to facilitate Vietnamese defense procurement. More critically, Vietnam sourced six improved _Kilo_-class submarines from Russia to add to its fleet of Soviet-era naval hardware. Vietnam is also interested in purchasing the jointly developed Russo-Indian BrahMos supersonic cruise missile in a deal that is likely only awaiting a nod of approval from Moscow. Additionally, earlier this year, Japan indicated its eagerness to expand defense cooperation with Vietnam.

While cooperation between these two countries is still growing, it could easily lead to Vietnam sourcing Japanese defense equipment amid the latter relaxing its ban on weapons exports. To echo Deputy Prime Minister Minh’s remarks in New York last week, Vietnam indeed has other partners to source its defense hardware. With the exception of Japan, the United States remains considerably better positioned to actually help Vietnam, which relies primarily on Soviet-era equipment, modernize its military.

Critically, Minh clarified that his comments on the embargo and on Vietnam-U.S. relations should be taken at face value and do not indicate a burgeoning alliance of any sort. To this end, Minh reiterated Vietnam’s “three nos” defense policy: say no to military alliances, say no to foreign bases on Vietnamese soil, and say no to relying on any external country for assistance in combat. Nothing in Minh’s remarks indicated that Vietnam’s military modernization program or desire to see the U.S. arms embargo lifted would lead to it fundamentally altering the underlying principles that guide its foreign policy. Despite its “three nos” policy, should the embargo be lifted, Vietnam will come closer to aligning itself with a concert of Asia-Pacific democracies including the United States, India and Japan that remain concerned about Chinese irredentism and assertiveness in the South China Sea. Nevertheless, it seems Hanoi remains adamant about maintaining its strategic autonomy — it just wants to do so with the most modern configuration of military hardware it can afford.

If and when the U.S. decides to lift the arms embargo, the consequences will likely not be far-reaching in the region. It will usher a new era of deeper bilateral relations between Washington and an old foe, but will not critically alter the maritime security dilemma or balance of power that are shaping current security dynamics in the South China Sea. Hanoi won’t immediately be emboldened vis-a-vis Beijing, nor will it change its behavior to suit U.S. expectations (on human rights, for example).

*For the United States, boosting Vietnam’s ability to patrol and monitor its own waters will help maintain the regional status quo in line with the objectives of its pivot to Asia. *

The U.S. decision to lift the embargo on lethal arms sales to Vietnam is likely impending and first and foremost speaks to a growing confluence of interests between the two countries. Deputy Prime Minister Minh’s emphasis on normalization was thus well-placed — there’s only so far the U.S. and Vietnam can go with the arms embargo still in place.

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## Viet

*Vietnam acquires unmanned Orbiter 2*
By: ARIE EGOZI
TEL AVIV
Source: Flightglobal.com
a day ago






Vietnam has acquired the Orbiter 2 unmanned air system (UAS) for use as an aerial forward observation asset for its *artillery corps*.

The Orbiter 2 is manufactured by Israel's Aeronautics Defense Systems, which says using a UAS instead of a ground-based forward observation officer will provide an improved "first round on target" capability for its customer. An Orbiter 2 flying at 2,000ft can supply artillery units with the co-ordinates of "a number" of targets, it adds.

Aeronautics sources say the Orbiter 2 is also now being offered by Rafael as part of deals that include the latter's Spike air-to-surface missiles, and by Israel Military Industries along with its surface-to-surface rockets.

An upgraded version of the Aeronautics aircraft is also available, with the Orbiter 2B capable of navigating independently to complete a mission, even if GPS is jammed or communication links lost. This variant also can carry payloads to assist with intelligence gathering.

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## Viet

*



*


*NATO Council of Canada » Fleet Expansion: A Big Boost for Vietnam*

interesting news: the NATO reveals the Damen Schelde Naval Shipyard is working to complete 4 Sigma-class corvettes for Vietnam. By 2018, the Vietnam People’s Navy will consist of 6 submarines, 9 frigates, 17 corvettes, 22 off-shore patrol vessels, 8 minesweepers, series of coastal anti-ship missile systems, and not to mention a considerable array of auxiliary vessels. the surface warships will be covered/protected by a missile shield.

I hope we will add another squadron of submarines and acquire a fleet of destroyers for the time after 2018.





_Sigma-class corvette_

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Vietnam acquires unmanned Orbiter 2*
> By: ARIE EGOZI
> TEL AVIV
> Source: Flightglobal.com
> a day ago
> 
> View attachment 99334
> 
> 
> Vietnam has acquired the Orbiter 2 unmanned air system (UAS) for use as an aerial forward observation asset for its *artillery corps*.
> 
> The Orbiter 2 is manufactured by Israel's Aeronautics Defense Systems, which says using a UAS instead of a ground-based forward observation officer will provide an improved "first round on target" capability for its customer. An Orbiter 2 flying at 2,000ft can supply artillery units with the co-ordinates of "a number" of targets, it adds.
> 
> Aeronautics sources say the Orbiter 2 is also now being offered by Rafael as part of deals that include the latter's Spike air-to-surface missiles, and by Israel Military Industries along with its surface-to-surface rockets.
> 
> An upgraded version of the Aeronautics aircraft is also available, with the Orbiter 2B capable of navigating independently to complete a mission, even if GPS is jammed or communication links lost. This variant also can carry payloads to assist with intelligence gathering.



Some more info and pics:

*Orbiter UAV*

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WovMsQXJj8s*

The Orbiter Mini UAV System Is a compact and lightweight system designed for use in Military and Homeland Security missions. The system presents the ultimate solution for Over The Hill reconnaissance missions, Low Intensity Conflicts and Urban warfare operations as well as any close range ISR mission.

*Orbiter Mini UAV System*

Brushless electric engine
Single operator design
Payload - Line Of Sight and Targets Guided flight modes
Autonomous launch and recovery
Rapid assembly and disassembly
Minimal training required
*Orbiter Mini UAV – Payloads and Capabilities*

Advanced avionics package
State of the art payloads
Advanced data link system
Accurate navigation capability (GPS + INS)
Low acoustic signature (Silent operation)
*Orbiter Mini UAV Specifications*

Operational Ceiling (AGL): 500 - 2000 Feet

LOS Data Link Range

* Mini ground directional antenna (Optional)

* GDT (Ground Data Terminal) (Optional)

15 Km

30 Km

80 Km

Operational Speed: 30 - 70 Knots

Max Speed: 70 Knots

Max Operational Altitude (ASL): 18,000 Feet

Max Payload Weight: 1.5 Kg (3.3 Lb)

Endurance: 3 - 4 Hours

















Viet said:


> _@Carlosa Vietnam Foreign Minister Minh is scheduled to visit Washington by tomorrow. he will meet John Kerry. I think we can expect some positive outcomes. Minh is a pro-US man. What is your opinion?_
> 
> *What to Expect If the US Lifts Its Vietnam Arms Embargo | The Diplomat*
> What are the expected short-term effects of the U.S. lifting its arms embargo on Vietnam?
> 
> View attachment 99019
> 
> By Ankit Panda
> September 29, 2014
> 
> Last week, I had the pleasure of participating in a panel discussion at the Asia Society with Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, who was in New York City to attend the United Nations General Assembly. During the Q&A portion of the event, Min called for the United States to lift its embargo on lethal arms sales to Vietnam, describing the embargo as “abnormal.” He went on to imply that relations between Vietnam and the United States will be normal once the ban is lifted:
> 
> View attachment 99020
> 
> 
> _“Nearly 20 years ago, we normalized relations with the United States and in 2013 we set up a comprehensive partnership with the United States. So the relation[ship] is normal and the ban on the lethal weapons to Vietnam is abnormal. So we lift the ban, meaning that the relation is normal, even though we have normalized the relation[ship] 20 years ago.” _
> 
> Minh is heading to Washington D.C. in early October for discussions with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry while U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is scheduled for a trip to Vietnam later this year.
> 
> Minh’s remarks came less than 24 hours after a _Reuters_ exclusive report cited comments by senior U.S. officials suggesting that the embargo would be on the agenda during Minh’s visit to the United States. According to that report, the Lockheed P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft may be one of the first items on Vietnam’s wish-list. The P-3 would be a major capability boost for the Vietnamese navy as it seeks to increase its maritime patrol and reconnaissance capabilities. The P-3 is also adept in anti-surface ship and anti-submarine warfare.
> 
> The P-3 has an estimated unit cost of $36 million. Within the United States, there is broad support in both the executive and the legislative for bringing the U.S. and Vietnam closer amid increasing Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea. Lifting the embargo represents one of the surest ways for the United States to reap important diplomatic dividends from Vietnam in the region as it seeks to bolster its pivot to Asia. One other such critical area for increasing cooperation is Vietnam’s potential accession to the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which remains a work-in-progress.
> 
> When asked if the lifting of the U.S. lethal arms embargo would upset China, Minh seemed at ease, remarking, ”If we do not buy weapons from the United States, we still buy [weapons] from other countries. So, why should China be bothered by that?” At no point did he deny Vietnam’s ongoing multi-billion dollar military modernization effort, which is aimed primarily at countering Chinese advances in the South China Sea. Earlier this year, in May, China placed an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam as part of its exclusive economic zone under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). That incident exposed the growing differences between Vietnam and China, two countries that once enjoyed close relations owing to inter-communist party solidarity (indeed, following the oil rig incident, Vietnam’s defense minister described it as a petty disagreement between “brothers”).
> 
> While Minh addressed the issue of the U.S. arms embargo in the context of Vietnam’s relationship with China, he was careful to emphasize that his country sees international law and multilateralism as the way forward in the South China Sea. ”Never before have we seen a greater risk for miscalculation and incidents that might escalate into military conflicts, as in the past few months,” he said. However, during his opening remarks, he noted that “Vietnam seeks to resolve the disputes in the South China Sea by available peaceful means, based on the rule of international law.”
> 
> For Vietnam, while the United States can be an appealing partner for defense procurement, there are other compelling partners, including Russia and India. During a visit to Hanoi earlier in September, Indian President Pranab Mukherjee signed a memorandum of understanding that included the extension of a $100 million credit line to facilitate Vietnamese defense procurement. More critically, Vietnam sourced six improved _Kilo_-class submarines from Russia to add to its fleet of Soviet-era naval hardware. Vietnam is also interested in purchasing the jointly developed Russo-Indian BrahMos supersonic cruise missile in a deal that is likely only awaiting a nod of approval from Moscow. Additionally, earlier this year, Japan indicated its eagerness to expand defense cooperation with Vietnam.
> 
> While cooperation between these two countries is still growing, it could easily lead to Vietnam sourcing Japanese defense equipment amid the latter relaxing its ban on weapons exports. To echo Deputy Prime Minister Minh’s remarks in New York last week, Vietnam indeed has other partners to source its defense hardware. With the exception of Japan, the United States remains considerably better positioned to actually help Vietnam, which relies primarily on Soviet-era equipment, modernize its military.
> 
> Critically, Minh clarified that his comments on the embargo and on Vietnam-U.S. relations should be taken at face value and do not indicate a burgeoning alliance of any sort. To this end, Minh reiterated Vietnam’s “three nos” defense policy: say no to military alliances, say no to foreign bases on Vietnamese soil, and say no to relying on any external country for assistance in combat. Nothing in Minh’s remarks indicated that Vietnam’s military modernization program or desire to see the U.S. arms embargo lifted would lead to it fundamentally altering the underlying principles that guide its foreign policy. Despite its “three nos” policy, should the embargo be lifted, Vietnam will come closer to aligning itself with a concert of Asia-Pacific democracies including the United States, India and Japan that remain concerned about Chinese irredentism and assertiveness in the South China Sea. Nevertheless, it seems Hanoi remains adamant about maintaining its strategic autonomy — it just wants to do so with the most modern configuration of military hardware it can afford.
> 
> If and when the U.S. decides to lift the arms embargo, the consequences will likely not be far-reaching in the region. It will usher a new era of deeper bilateral relations between Washington and an old foe, but will not critically alter the maritime security dilemma or balance of power that are shaping current security dynamics in the South China Sea. Hanoi won’t immediately be emboldened vis-a-vis Beijing, nor will it change its behavior to suit U.S. expectations (on human rights, for example).
> 
> *For the United States, boosting Vietnam’s ability to patrol and monitor its own waters will help maintain the regional status quo in line with the objectives of its pivot to Asia. *
> 
> The U.S. decision to lift the embargo on lethal arms sales to Vietnam is likely impending and first and foremost speaks to a growing confluence of interests between the two countries. Deputy Prime Minister Minh’s emphasis on normalization was thus well-placed — there’s only so far the U.S. and Vietnam can go with the arms embargo still in place.



I think he will do the final negotiation and soon after the visit, the embargo will get lifted. P-3C Orions and spare parts for a variety of systems will be the first priority.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Images of factory Irkut (Russia) where SU-30 aircraft for Vietnam are assembled.
> _
> 
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> _
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> 
> _



To clarify, these pictures are from an article that describes the Sukhoi 30 factory *(*Irkut factory) that is expected to produce the next order of jets that Vietnam plans to order, which seems to be either the Su-30MS or Su-30M2 as the next air superiority fighter.

Vietnam might also buy the SU-34 as the next main strike jet and to replace the SU-22's. The SU-34 is produced at the Novosibirsk Aviation Production Association (NAPO) factory.

The SU-30MK2 that Vietnam currently has as well as on order is produced at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur factory. It seems like Vietnam is no longer planning to order any more SU-30MK2.

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## Carlosa

A few really good articles to read:

Can Vietnam’s Maritime Strategy Counter China? | The Diplomat

The Five Weapons Vietnam Needs Most to Take on a Rising China | RealClearDefense

Vietnam Mulling New Strategies to Deter China | The Diplomat

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## Carlosa

New Reconnaissance Vessel 500CV for the Coast Guard

People's Army - Wednesday, 1/10/2014 | Google translated

After nearly 10 months of construction, on October first, in Ho Chi Minh City, Factory X51, General Defense Industry successfully launched scout ships class 500CV, number 1 (denoted TS500- 01) of the shipbuilding project Command Vietnam Marine Police on schedule.





_500CV reconnaissance ship image (denoted TS500-01) was launched._

500CV scout ship is a steel hull warship designed by the Institute of Design (General Department of Defence Industry) designed according to the national technical standards and regulations on decentralization and shipbuilding steel shell QCVN 21: 2010 / BGTVT years 2010 structural features unrestricted.

38,2m vessel length, width 7,8m, cruise speed of 10 knots. Vessels used in performing the task of scouting, maritime law enforcement and other duties assigned.

Reportedly, this is the first 500CV scout ship of the vessel newbuilding project 500CV reconnaissance of the Coast Guard Command.

Currently, the plant is continuing construction TS500-02 boat.

*News, photos: NGUYEN VAN SUPPORT
according to the People's Army newspaper*

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> A few really good articles to read:
> 
> Can Vietnam’s Maritime Strategy Counter China? | The Diplomat
> 
> The Five Weapons Vietnam Needs Most to Take on a Rising China | RealClearDefense
> 
> Vietnam Mulling New Strategies to Deter China | The Diplomat


bro, it is very surprising to see how the 6 kilo subs have the potential to change the balance of power in the south china sea.
it is too bad that Russia has not approved the sell of the land-attack missiles yet.



Carlosa said:


> New Reconnaissance Vessel 500CV for the Coast Guard
> 
> People's Army - Wednesday, 1/10/2014 | Google translated
> 
> After nearly 10 months of construction, on October first, in Ho Chi Minh City, Factory X51, General Defense Industry successfully launched scout ships class 500CV, number 1 (denoted TS500- 01) of the shipbuilding project Command Vietnam Marine Police on schedule.
> 
> View attachment 101644
> 
> _500CV reconnaissance ship image (denoted TS500-01) was launched._
> 
> 500CV scout ship is a steel hull warship designed by the Institute of Design (General Department of Defence Industry) designed according to the national technical standards and regulations on decentralization and shipbuilding steel shell QCVN 21: 2010 / BGTVT years 2010 structural features unrestricted.
> 
> 38,2m vessel length, width 7,8m, cruise speed of 10 knots. Vessels used in performing the task of scouting, maritime law enforcement and other duties assigned.
> 
> Reportedly, this is the first 500CV scout ship of the vessel newbuilding project 500CV reconnaissance of the Coast Guard Command.
> 
> Currently, the plant is continuing construction TS500-02 boat.
> 
> *News, photos: NGUYEN VAN SUPPORT
> according to the People's Army newspaper*


nice, that is a complete new kind of surveillance vessel.


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## Viet

Navy

High-speed amphibious ship "Ivan Kartzov" class. Russia has built 4 ships: 3 for Russian and 1 for Vietnam Navy.
project codenamed Sea Cow, weight 280 tons, 45 meters long, maximum speed is 35 knots, range 930km, can carry 4 armored vehicles and 40 soldiers. Sea trails were completed in Pacific Ocean.


Xem tàu đổ bộ cao tốc Nga sắp bàn giao cho VN

















I guess the navy will build a new fleet of amphibious vessels to replace the current aging fleet. the Marines need such transporters to re-take islands occupied by enemies.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bro, it is very surprising to see how the 6 kilo subs have the potential to change the balance of power in the south china sea.
> it is too bad that Russia has not approved the sell of the land-attack missiles yet..



Bro, If you are happy about that, I can tell you one more thing that will make you happier, the following comes from Vietnamese naval officers:

"Several tests were performed on the Vietnamese Kilos prove that they are very capable combatants, with much lower noise compared to Chinese counterparts (including the Project 877EKM and 636M Improved Kilo). The exact numbers won't be disclosed, but it assures that the Vietnamese Kilos will be a silent killer under the sea."

Obviously, this means that the Vietnamese Kilos are a more up to date version than the improved Kilos that china got and that makes a lot of sense.

Let black flag and the chinese crowd say whatever they want about the Kilos, they are not in a position to actually know. The chinese navy does know better than them and that's why, as that analyst said, they are concerned about the vietnamese Kilos and they have a lot of respect for the vietnamese military.

Time to order a second batch with AIP and a 8 cell VLS Brahmos launcher!!!!!

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Navy
> 
> High-speed amphibious ship "Ivan Kartzov" class. Russia has built 4 ships: 3 for Russian and 1 for Vietnam Navy.
> project codenamed Sea Cow, weight 280 tons, 45 meters long, maximum speed is 35 knots, range 930km, can carry 4 armored vehicles and 40 soldiers. Sea trails were completed in Pacific Ocean.
> 
> 
> Xem tàu đổ bộ cao tốc Nga sắp bàn giao cho VN
> View attachment 101741
> 
> 
> View attachment 101742
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 101743
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the navy will build a new fleet of amphibious vessels to replace the current aging fleet. the Marines need such transporters to re-take islands occupied by enemies.
> View attachment 101768



I had read that article a couple of weeks ago and in my opinion, that's the best type of ship for the Amphibious forces (other than a large hovercraft type vessel like the Zubr class), not too big, not too small and good speed. Some people, like one of those articles said, recommend a large LPD like the Makassar of Indonesia, but I feel that would be too big a target, easy to destroy and when you lose one, you lose a lot. I think many smaller, faster ships like this one is the way to go for Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

The newest DN 2000 (OPV-9014)” class for the coast guard in new colors (white instead of blue).

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## Viet

Navy

another patrol aircraft for Vietnam Navy: DHC-6 Twin Otter 19-passenger STOL (Short Takeoff and Landing) utility aircraft. the number #6 of this kind produced by Viking Air (Canada) for Vietnam. maximum speed of 314 kph and a flight range of 1,832 kilometers, and powered by two high performance engines.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The newest DN 2000 (OPV-9014)” class for the coast guard in new colors (white instead of blue).
> 
> View attachment 101826


have we officially changed to the new white color?



Carlosa said:


> Bro, If you are happy about that, I can tell you one more thing that will make you happier, the following comes from Vietnamese naval officers:
> 
> "Several tests were performed on the Vietnamese Kilos prove that they are very capable combatants, with much lower noise compared to Chinese counterparts (including the Project 877EKM and 636M Improved Kilo). The exact numbers won't be disclosed, but it assures that the Vietnamese Kilos will be a silent killer under the sea."
> 
> Obviously, this means that the Vietnamese Kilos are a more up to date version than the improved Kilos that china got and that makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Let black flag and the chinese crowd say whatever they want about the Kilos, they are not in a position to actually know. The chinese navy does know better than them and that's why, as that analyst said, they are concerned about the vietnamese Kilos and they have a lot of respect for the vietnamese military.
> 
> Time to order a second batch with AIP and a 8 cell VLS Brahmos launcher!!!!!
> View attachment 101798
> View attachment 101799
> View attachment 101800


if we have a spuadron of this sub, we will become the undispute naval power in southeast asia.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> if we have a spuadron of this sub, we will become the undispute naval power in southeast asia.



*I think so.*



Viet said:


> have we officially changed to the new white color?.



*I don't know, I like the blue color myself, china also uses white.*


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Bro, If you are happy about that, I can tell you one more thing that will make you happier, the following comes from Vietnamese naval officers:
> 
> "Several tests were performed on the Vietnamese Kilos prove that they are very capable combatants, with much lower noise compared to Chinese counterparts (including the Project 877EKM and 636M Improved Kilo). The exact numbers won't be disclosed, but it assures that the Vietnamese Kilos will be a silent killer under the sea."
> 
> Obviously, this means that the Vietnamese Kilos are a more up to date version than the improved Kilos that china got and that makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Let black flag and the chinese crowd say whatever they want about the Kilos, they are not in a position to actually know. The chinese navy does know better than them and that's why, as that analyst said, they are concerned about the vietnamese Kilos and they have a lot of respect for the vietnamese military.
> 
> Time to order a second batch with AIP and a 8 cell VLS Brahmos launcher!!!!!
> View attachment 101798
> View attachment 101799
> View attachment 101800



You sound like Kilo is China's only sub.

How about our much more advanced AIP subs with a much larger quantity?

Type 039A
Type 039A submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Type 039B
Type 039B, Improved Yuan Class Diesel Electric Submarine??

Type 039C
New Chinese 039C Submarine Doesn’t Need to Come up for Air… in Several Weeks | Popular Science


And don't forget our nuclear subs which is one of our most powerful and lethal weapons.


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## World Citizen

Carlosa said:


> *I think so.*
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't know, I like the blue color myself, china also uses white.*



Blue looks better isn't it  .


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You sound like Kilo is China's only sub.
> 
> How about our much more advanced AIP subs with a much larger quantity?.



Much more advanced, says who? Since when can trust what china says?

How about the incredibly bad performance of the propulsion system of the type 52C destroyers? If we just listen to you and what china says, those are great destroyers, at least as good as the american AEGIS, but they are actually crap, how can we believe those advanced chinese submarines are any better?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Much more advanced, says who? Since when can trust what china says?
> 
> How about the incredibly bad performance of the propulsion system of the type 52C destroyers? If we just listen to you and what china says, those are great destroyers, at least as good as the american AEGIS, but they are actually crap, how can we believe those advanced chinese submarines are any better?



Who said that the Type 052C has the bad performance? Kanwa? That military magazine has basically zero credibility, and it has been debunked so many times.

How can the Type 052C with bad performance successfully accomplish to escort the ships in the Gulf of Aden so many times?

Mind you that the Type 052C has the AESA radar, while even the newest Arleigh Burke ships will use the PESA radar.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Who said that the Type 052C has the bad performance? Kanwa? That military magazine has basically zero credibility, and it has been debunked so many times.
> 
> How can the Type 052C with bad performance successfully accomplish to escort the ships in the Gulf of Aden so many times?
> 
> Mind you that the Type 052C has the AESA radar, while even the newest Arleigh Burke ships will use the PESA radar.



Sorry, but I rather trust Kanwa than you.

If the chinese military is concerned about the vietnamese Kilos, that tells me enough.

If one day we get to see fireworks between US and china, then we'll see for real how chinese systems really work, until that time, china is not tested in combat and is all just talk, and not just talk, but talk from a totalitarian government and a system that is not know for a trustworthy reputation, but rather all the opposite, they usually hide their mistakes or performance problems and lie non stop as every chinese living in China knows very well.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> Sorry, but I rather trust Kanwa than you.
> 
> If the chinese military is concerned about the vietnamese Kilos, that tells me enough.
> 
> If one day we get to see fireworks between US and china, then we'll see for real how chinese systems really work, until that time, china is not tested in combat and is all just talk, and not just talk, but talk from a totalitarian government and a system that is not know for a trustworthy reputation, but rather all the opposite, they usually hide their mistakes or performance problems and lie non stop as every chinese living in China knows very well.



Kanwa: J-20 is a fake mockup
Reality: J-20 is flying for more than hundred of times

Kanwa: The CV Liaoning has no landing gear
Reality: Liaoning has landing the J-15 more than hundred of times

Andrei Chang promised that he would shut down his business if J-20 can fly back in 2011, now this shameless liar has not even fulfilled his promise yet.


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## FairAndUnbiased

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Kanwa: J-20 is a fake mockup
> Reality: J-20 is flying for more than hundred of times
> 
> Kanwa: The CV Liaoning has no landing gear
> Reality: Liaoning has landing the J-15 more than hundred of times
> 
> Andrei Chang promised that he would shut down his business if J-20 can fly back in 2011, now this shameless liar has not even fulfilled his promise yet.



Never argue with a bigot because prejudice is not based in logic, thus you cannot outreason it.

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## Viet

*10/01/2014 defence ministry*

receiving the new Brazilian Defence and Air Force Attaché to Vietnam, Senior Colonel Flavio Eduardo Mendonca Tarraf.











greeting a delegation from India’s National Cadet Corp, led by Colonel Biju Thomas





welcoming Australian Chief of Navy, Vice Admiral Timothy William Barrett





Senior Lieutenant General Ngo Xuan Lich visits Cambodian PM Hun Sen.


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Never argue with a bigot because prejudice is not based in logic, thus you cannot outreason it.



Ohhh some people don't like to hear facts huh? China doesn't lie right?

What did China say about the Hong Kong protestors? They are foreign motivated and "coerced" into demonstrating!!!

Right, what else can be expected from the chinese government, but according to the chinese clowns in this forum, we should believe the claims that china makes, well, I suggest you go back to the hole that you crawled from in the chinese threads and stay there, we don't need your input here.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Much more advanced, says who? Since when can trust what china says?
> 
> How about the incredibly bad performance of the propulsion system of the type 52C destroyers? If we just listen to you and what china says, those are great destroyers, at least as good as the american AEGIS, but they are actually crap, how can we believe those advanced chinese submarines are any better?


yes, actually chinese army is a blackbox. nobody knows what is inside. we see mass of soldiers with many weapon systems. some appear very modern to me. things will get clear if they are engaged in a real combat.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Carlosa said:


> Ohhh some people don't like to hear facts huh? China doesn't lie right?



Asserting things are facts does not make them facts. Proof does. You are a bigot because you are saying things are false for the person saying them, not for actual proof they are false. Name one single TECHNICAL claim by China that was proven false.


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## Carlosa

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Asserting things are facts does not make them facts. Proof does. You are a bigot because you are saying things are false for the person saying them, not for actual proof they are false. Name one single TECHNICAL claim by China that was proven false.



You said don't argue with a bigot? Then what are you doing here? We were fine until you clowns intruded here, did anybody ask for your opinion? Does anybody here care to talk to you people? I think not, so stop wasting our time, go back to the chinese threads!!!!


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Let* black flag* and the chinese crowd say whatever they want about the Kilos, they are not in a position to actually know. The chinese navy does know better than them and that's why, as that analyst said, they are concerned about the vietnamese Kilos and they have a lot of respect for the vietnamese military.
> 
> Time to order a second batch with AIP and a 8 cell VLS Brahmos launcher!!!!!
> View attachment 101798
> View attachment 101799
> View attachment 101800



Huh, why did you mentioned me? were you inviting me here for a conversation?


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Huh, why did you mentioned me? were you inviting me here for a conversation?



Because you used to talk a lot about the Kilos, remember?

No problems with you, you are quite ok.


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## Viet

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Never argue with a bigot because *prejudice *is not based in logic, thus you cannot outreason it.


are you a military expert or just a simple poster? don´t tell me you are not with prejudice.


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## Viet

pictures of ongoing visit in Korea: Communist Party chief Nguyen meets S Korea President Park Geun Hye. Talks are concentrated on business, bilateral ties and the situation in the south china sea.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> yes, actually chinese army is a blackbox. nobody knows what is inside. we see mass of soldiers with many weapon systems. some appear very modern to me. things will get clear if they are engaged in a real combat.



The Taliban fighters are 100 times more courageous than the US army, but they still got slaughtered when the technological difference is getting too big.

So my suggestion is that Vietnam shouldn't spend so much on the military, because you have zero chance to even close the gap with China.

The military gap will only get bigger just like the economic gap.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Taliban fighters are 100 times more courageous than the US army, but they still got slaughtered when the technological difference too big.
> 
> So my suggestion is that Vietnam shouldn't spend so much on the military, because you have zero chance to even close the gap with China.
> 
> The military gap will only get bigger just like the economic gap.



I"ll pass your important advice to the Vietnamese ministry of defense, I'm sure they will carefully consider your advice since they always listen to well know experts as yourself.




Viet said:


> are you a military expert or just a simple poster? don´t tell me you are not with prejudice.



USA lifted the arms embargo to Vietnam yesterday!!!!!! (for maritime equipment for now).
I see 6 P-3C Orions coming soon..........


US lifts 40-year arms ban to boost Vietnam sea defense - Yahoo News

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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Taliban fighters are 100 times more courageous than the US army, but they still got slaughtered when the technological difference too big..



Last time I checked, the Taliban is still there and in a very strong position, but the American forces are leaving.
You seem to have a very strange sense of logic.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Last time I checked, the Taliban is still there and in a very strong position, but the American forces are leaving.
> You seem to have a very strange sense of logic.



i am not agree, US has achieving much of their objectives there in Afghanistan

1. Taliban Government in Afghanistan collapse, chek
2. US to put their allies as in helm position in Afghanistan new government, Check
3. Confine and chasing Talibunnies in their holes and safe heaven in Pakistan Tribal Area, Check
4. Disrupt and severing their abilities to carries Global terrorism, Check
5. Killing or capturing much if not almost all of their prominent leader, Check
6. The creation of New Afghanistan National Army, Check
7. Gather much if not all of Afghanistan Northern Area community to resist against Taliban and their Al-Qaida off shot, check 

See, I don't see Talibunnies is still in strong position like your suggest, and the facts has proven otherwise. The American did a much better job in Afghanistan than the Russian (Soviet) who can't win the hearts of local peoples.

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## World Citizen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Taliban fighters are 100 times more courageous than the US army, but they still got slaughtered when the technological difference too big.
> 
> So my suggestion is that Vietnam shouldn't spend so much on the military, because you have zero chance to even close the gap with China.
> 
> The military gap will only get bigger just like the economic gap.



That's what the Hans think the Mongolia with only 3 mils ppl can't wins again 600 mils ppl of Hans eh .


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## ChineseTiger1986

World Citizen said:


> That's what the Hans think the Mongolia with only 3 mils ppl can't wins again 600 mils ppl of Hans eh .



China didn't have 600 million people during the era of the Mongol Empire.

PS, today is entirely different from the era with the sword and the bow.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I"ll pass your important advice to the Vietnamese ministry of defense, I'm sure they will carefully consider your advice since they always listen to well know experts as yourself.


yeah I am not sure if our generals laugh or just shake the heads?


Carlosa said:


> USA lifted the arms embargo to Vietnam yesterday!!!!!! (for maritime equipment for now).
> I see 6 P-3C Orions coming soon..........
> 
> US lifts 40-year arms ban to boost Vietnam sea defense - Yahoo News


wonderful news...the ban is lifted for maritime defence systems including aircraft, warships and lethal weapons. once our P-3 are equipped with torpedos, we can go hunting in the south china sea.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> i am not agree, US has achieving much of their objectives there in Afghanistan
> 
> 1. Taliban Government in Afghanistan collapse, chek
> 2. US to put their allies as in helm position in Afghanistan new government, Check
> 3. Confine and chasing Talibunnies in their holes and safe heaven in Pakistan Tribal Area, Check
> 4. Disrupt and severing their abilities to carries Global terrorism, Check
> 5. Killing or capturing much if not almost all of their prominent leader, Check
> 6. The creation of New Afghanistan National Army, Check
> 7. Gather much if not all of Afghanistan Northern Area community to resist against Taliban and their Al-Qaida off shot, check
> 
> See, I don't see Talibunnies is still in strong position like your suggest, and the facts has proven otherwise. The American did a much better job in Afghanistan than the Russian (Soviet) who can't win the hearts of local peoples.



You are right on much of that but the taliban is still not really defeated and as usual the western powers end up getting tired of the stalemate and leave, it remains to be seen if the Afghan army can cope with them. After the initial victories (many years ago) , the situation ended up in a war of attrition where NATO soldiers get killed all the time, usually by Taliban that infiltrated into the army and police. The government controls the main cities and the Taliban controls the countryside. That war of attrition and the lack of a clear cut victory is what made the current stalemate which has been around for years now. I can hardly see that as a victory although I do wish that the taliban get creamed, but I don't see it as something easy to do.

Some of the things that you mentioned actually apply to Al-qaeda, not to the Taliban and anyway, the northern areas are usually not controlled by the Taliban, the Taliban controls the south of the country which is the Pashtun area and they are in control there, that's why I say its an stalemate, not a victory, neither side is able to actually win.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Taliban fighters are 100 times more courageous than the US army, but they still got slaughtered when the technological difference is getting too big.
> 
> So my suggestion is that Vietnam shouldn't spend so much on the military, because you have zero chance to even close the gap with China.
> 
> The military gap will only get bigger just like the economic gap.


eahhh...just keep your delusion. I don´t mind.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> eahhh...just keep your delusion. I don´t mind.



Brilliant advice, don't you think? China is more powerful and they keep getting more powerful, so better give up and let them take everything they want, never mind, be happy to become a vassal state.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Brilliant advice, don't you think? China is more powerful and they keep getting more powerful, so better give up and let them take everything they want, never mind, be happy to become a vassal state.


I can sense fear in chinese posters here and elsewhere.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I can sense fear in chinese posters here and elsewhere.



If the situation in Hong Kong spreads to the mainland.................. that would be something to fear, their empire can all of a sudden collapse.

Just a few weeks ago, the chinese posters here were talking about a color revolution in Vietnam, interesting to see how fast things change.


----------



## Viet

FM Minh meeting with US National Security Advisor Susan Rice.
nice idea: the US State Department suggests transferring military equippment "surplus" to Vietnam. Yeah why not? we have a long wish list.







Carlosa said:


> If the situation in Hong Kong spreads to the mainland.................. that would be something to fear, their empire can all of a sudden collapse.
> 
> Just a few weeks ago, the chinese posters here were talking about a color revolution in Vietnam, interesting to see how fast things change.


ha ha ha they dream of a collapse of Vietnam, then they can take over the south china sea. wet dream.



madokafc said:


> i am not agree, US has achieving much of their objectives there in Afghanistan
> 
> 1. Taliban Government in Afghanistan collapse, chek
> 2. US to put their allies as in helm position in Afghanistan new government, Check
> 3. Confine and chasing Talibunnies in their holes and safe heaven in Pakistan Tribal Area, Check
> 4. Disrupt and severing their abilities to carries Global terrorism, Check
> 5. Killing or capturing much if not almost all of their prominent leader, Check
> 6. The creation of New Afghanistan National Army, Check
> 7. Gather much if not all of Afghanistan Northern Area community to resist against Taliban and their Al-Qaida off shot, check
> 
> See, I don't see Talibunnies is still in strong position like your suggest, and the facts has proven otherwise. The American did a much better job in Afghanistan than the Russian (Soviet) who can't win the hearts of local peoples.


chinesetiger (a cool name, isn´t it) with his post wants to see China as America, and Vietnam as Taliban.
do you see it? China as superman who can go over the water. Vietnam? hopeless.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> You are right on much of that but the taliban is still not really defeated and as usual the western powers end up getting tired of the stalemate and leave, it remains to be seen if the Afghan army can cope with them. After the initial victories (many years ago) , the situation ended up in a war of attrition where NATO soldiers get killed all the time, usually by Taliban that infiltrated into the army and police. The government controls the main cities and the Taliban controls the countryside. That war of attrition and the lack of a clear cut victory is what made the current stalemate which has been around for years now. I can hardly see that as a victory although I do wish that the taliban get creamed, but I don't see it as something easy to do.
> 
> Some of the things that you mentioned actually apply to Al-qaeda, not to the Taliban and anyway, the northern areas are usually not controlled by the Taliban, the Taliban controls the south of the country which is the Pashtun area and they are in control there, that's why I say its an stalemate, not a victory, neither side is able to actually win.




I am just asking you and answer this honestly

Are the USA and ISAF achieving their objective as i listed before? Are Osama and much of his close aides dead or been captured? are Taliban government in Kabul crumble and their supporter hiding in cave like a rats, and only came out from their holes in cover of darkness? are USA can setting up the pro-USA government in Kabul? 

and according to your argument, i just keep wondering about what kind of objective USA setting before their starting up their invasion against Taliban and Al-Qaida in Afghanistan? killing all of Talibunnies? or this is a kind of war of annihilation?

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> I am just asking you and answer this honestly
> 
> Are the USA and ISAF achieving their objective as i listed before? Are Osama and much of his close aides dead or been captured? are Taliban government in Kabul crumble and their supporter hiding in cave like a rats, and only came out from their holes in cover of darkness? are USA can setting up the pro-USA government in Kabul?
> 
> and according to your argument, i just keep wondering about what kind of objective USA setting before their starting up their invasion against Taliban and Al-Qaida in Afghanistan? killing all of Talibunnies? or this is a kind of war of annihilation?



The problem with Afghanistan, and this has been the same throughout recent history, is that no foreign power is able to control it. Its not difficult to go with overwhelming power and kick arse in a conventional type of warfare, the US is good at that, it did it easily in Iraq and Afghanistan, it only took a few weeks. It was the same for the russians, they took over very fast.

The problem is after that, to stay in control and that's where everybody fails. Everybody gets bog down in a war of attrition that can't win. If you look at how the US and European press talk about Afghanistan, they see it as an endless war that they need to get out off and that's what they are doing. And frankly, as long as Pakistan keeps supporting the Taliban, its impossible to win. And furthermore, its an ethnic conflict also; the north is one particular ethnic group that is pro western and that's the area that the government controls easily, those are the traditional enemies of the Pashtuns, the south as well as the northwest of Pakistan is Pashtun and that area is not controlled by the government, On top of that, the Taliban are religious fanatics and for each one that gets killed, at least another one takes its place, so its a never ending conflict, that's why the western powers want out. It reminds me of Vietnam, once the americans realized that they could not win, they left everything in the hands of south vietnam and left. 2 or 3 years later south vietnam collapsed. It could be the same in Afghanistan.

If the objective of the US is just to get the Taliban out of power, get Al-Qaeda on the run and to kill bin laden, well, most of that was done in just a few weeks and Bin Laden a few years later, that was the easy part, but the US stayed there to prevent the Taliban from retaking power and what's the situation now? They are trying to engage the Taliban into peace talks and bring them into a coalition government, otherwise the conflict continues, the Taliban are far from hiding in caves, they control a lot of territory. What the outcome will be, I really don't know, but as long as Pakistan is in bed with the Taliban, they can't really be defeated. This is not a conflict that is easy to define or to make conclusive endings and can easily keep going for many years.

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## Viet

4/10 handover a modern 2,200t vessel to the coast guard. more are under construction.

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## Viet

Historic photos:
*Liberation Day of Hanoi 60 years ago*

the victory over the French army not only ends French colonialism, but erases the century long humiliation of Vietnam.

*



*
*Battalion 307, Brigade 308 taking over Long Bien Bridge*
*



*
*Officers marching in front of Hong Van-Long Van ice-cream shop, now Dong Kinh Nghia Thuc Square.*
*



*
*Nurses following soldiers returning from a base *
*



*
*Art troupes on Hang Dao, Hang Ngang Streets*
*



*
*The Liberation Army enters Hang Dao Cross-road*
*



*
*Welcoming the Liberation Army to the capital city*
*



*
*Hanoians waving in welcome of the Liberation Army*
*



*
*Doctor Tran Duy Hung, Vice Chairman of the City Troops Committee *
*



*
*Soldiers enter Dinh Tien Hoang St*
*



*
*Welcome arches made by citizens on Hang Dao St*











French soldiers withdraw via Hang Dau St to Long Bien Bridge




















A flag lowering ceremony ends French colonialism in Vietnam

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## Viet

FM Minh with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry at the State Department in Washington October 2, 2014. the US decision to ease arms embargo came with a sudden.

a tip from US Senator John McCain: if Vietnam continues to "improve" human rights, the US will totally scrap the arms embargo.






...and the 1-2-3 nuclear pact with America becomes effective.

US-Vietnam Nuclear Cooperation Agreement Becomes Effective

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## Viet

Vietnam made radar test equipment 31E/01 for Su-30MK2

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## Viet

*http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141004/DEFREG/310040020/New-Vietnam-Ruling-Could-Open-Door-Further-Exports*

Oct. 4, 2014 - 03:45AM |
By AARON MEHTA | Comments

*



*
_New Life for old Planes: US-built P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft are among the equipment Vietnam may want to purchase, after the US loosened its regulations governing sales to Vietnam. (MC2 Jillian Lotti/ / US Navy)_

WASHINGTON — The decision by the US to legalize the sale of lethal equipment for maritime security to Vietnam could have major impacts on both the regional balance of power and US industry.

The decision to allow arms sales to Vietnam for the first time since the Vietnam War comes at a time of increased Chinese aggression in the South China Sea. Sales of equipment will be restricted to maritime defense, a nebulous term that allows the US to decide on a case-by-case basis what equipment can be sold to the Vietnamese military.

The goal, State Department officials told reporters during an Oct. 2 briefing, is to bolster Vietnam’s maritime security without giving them equipment that could be used in violation of human rights. “Just because we’ve shifted the nonlethal policy is not an indication we’re going to provide all lethal assistance,” one official said. “I don’t want you to get the sense the floodgates are opening.”

The State Department is casting this as a decision based on improved relations with Vietnam, rather than a move to blunt Chinese aggression in the region. “This is not an anti-China move,” another official said. “This is not something where we would feel we had to alert China to. This is really a move on the continuum of things we’ve been talking about to help countries build maritime capacity.”

Indeed, relations between the US and Vietnam have been warming for years, particularly since a 2010 trip to Hanoi by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The State Department officials were quick to point to internal improvements inside Vietnam as well, particularly on the human rights front.

But it is impossible to deny the growing aggression of China in the region, something that came to a head over the summer when Chinese forces set up an oil rig inside water claimed by Vietnam, leading to confrontations between the two navies. Beijing eventually removed the oil rig, but Murray Hiebert, deputy director of the Sumitro Chair for Southeast Asia Studies at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the incident reminded Vietnam of the need to “look over their shoulders” at their northern neighbor.

He added that the US has been interested in increasing military-to-military relationships in recent years, but the oil rig incident may have given the impetus for both sides to make things happen. “Vietnam is trying, like a lot of regional countries, to balance its relations with China and the US,” Hiebert said. “China is Vietnam’s biggest trading partner. It provides electricity in the north, it provides component parts for export products, so Vietnam can only go so far. It’s a very calibrated, cautious approach.”

Zhuang Jianzhong of Shanghai Jiao Tong University warns that China will not be happy with what it could view as the arming of its southern neighbor. “It’s a prepositioning of equipment against China and we are not happy with this decision,” he said. “We will not overreact, for there is no immediate conflict or war between China and Vietnam. But we will talk about that when Obama comes to Beijing” for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meeting in November.

Hiebert agrees Beijing won’t be happy with the move, but is unlikely to raise a public stink over it. Other nations in the region are unlikely to make much fuss about the decision, he added. “I think most countries, particularly the other claimants [to the South China Sea], are going to just see this as increasing the capability of Vietnam’s very weak Navy,” he said.

*Boon for Industry?*

The State Department officials acknowledged that the definition of maritime security will likely include aircraft. And for a US industrial base that is hoping for foreign sales to boost profits amid domestic budget cuts, Vietnam could represent a goldmine, said Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group.

“There is a very high degree of inevitably that one day Vietnam will be a major US defense equipment market, and for quite a few years they’ve been heading in that direction,” Aboulafia said. “Once again, the No. 1 promoter of the US cause, in terms of diplomacy, military cooperation and defense sales, is Beijing.”

He expects Vietnam to move quickly to procure some form of maritime surveillance aircraft, likely excess P-3 aircraft the US Navy is looking to retire as it brings its more advanced P-8 fleet online. He added that used C-130 cargo planes could make “an awful lot of sense” for maritime search-and-rescue operations. That could come in the form of excess C-130H models, as the US National Guard wants to divest those in favor of the more modern C-130J.





_C-130 Hercules_

Carl Thayer, a professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy, said “both sides would benefit” from a P-3 agreement. He adds that Vietnam may look to add a coastal radar of some sort, and helicopters that could be launched from its Molinya-class frigates.

Of note is an agreement, announced by Secretary of State John Kerry in late 2013 to provide Vietnam with five fast, unarmed patrol vessels. Thayer said Vietnam might be interested in another order of cutters, this time armed. The first State Department official said it has not received any signs from Vietnam that it wants the original tranche of five boats to have weapons added back, but did not rule out the possibility of arming those cutters down the line.

While the short term market may be filled quickly, the true prize is the potential for a long-term, reliable military customer, particularly with Vietnamese naval forces willing to spend on modernization.

Andrew Shapiro, a former senior State Department official who headed Political-Military Affairs, called the decision “a very positive first step that could lead to further expansion in the years ahead.” US companies are “bullish” on Vietnam as a market, Shapiro said, and so is the US government.

“The US military is greatly interested in deepening cooperation with Vietnam and working more closely together,” he said “This is a significant indicator that the Vietnamese are becoming more comfortable with us as a potential partner, and I think DoD and state are interested in building on the progress.”

Shapiro added that lifting the ban on lethal equipment could also lead to growth in non-defense industries. The state officials said there are no plans to lift the remaining restrictions on military trade, but left the possibility open.

“As the relationship progresses, and if there is continued progress on human rights, that makes it easier and more likely we take other steps to build the relationship,” the first official said. “So we’re not ruling it out down the road, assuming there is continued progress.” ■

Wendell Minnick in Taipei contributed to this report.

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## Viet

landing of a DHC-6 *Twin Otter*, the number #6 of this kind and final patrol aircraft for the navy. now the squadron is complete and can start patrolling the south china sea.

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## Viet

New coastal maritime surveillance radar for the navy: *Coast Watcher 100 (France)
*
specs: wavelength 10m, over the horizon radar, capable to detect targets such as 

stealth vessel at a distance of 45 km with radar reflector size (RCS) of 1m2
aircraft at a distance of 90 km at low altitude of 170m with RCS of 25m2
fishing vessel with RCS of 50m2 with 3m height above sea level at 145 km distance
warship with RCS of 10,000m2, 10m height above sea level at a distance of 170 km
can be installed on the next generation of warships such as Sigma class


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## Viet

I got issue to post pictures here...hmm

here is the next try: a Kilo (artistic) fires a antiship missile _3M-54E (2_00 kg warhead, range of 220 km, extremly powerful rocket engine drives the rocket to three times the speed of sound, making it difficult for enemy ships to flee). Being hit, no warship, be destroyer or cruiser or aircraft carrier can survive.

as silent killer, the sub equipped with powerful torpedo and cruise missiles poses a serious threat to any enemy aircraft carrier battle group.

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## Viet

Vietnam made version of low-altitude anti-aircraft missile 9K32 Strela-2.

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## Viet

if there are problems with missile guided warships, things come to the military factory X56.

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## Viet

7/8: a coast guard is established to protect marine waters of Spratlys










the patrol vessel CSB 8001 is among the fleet.

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## Viet

microdrone md4-1000 (Germany)

specs:

VTOL aircraft (Vertical Take Off and Landing), controlled by remote control or GPS waypoint navigation software
88 minutes flying time, 1,200g payload, operate in all weather conditions, operational altitude 1,000 meters






accessories:
*RPA ground station*




*Laser Scanner: * to scan the terrain below the drone very quickly with a very high precision
*



*

*Multiple Camera Array*

*



*

or just a *Sony NEX-7 Foto-/Video-Set: *pictures are transmitted live to the control station


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## AViet

The equipment should be shown here only if they are made in Vietnam, or they are some big cost and special item, like submarine. If they are not, what is the purpose. Even the poorest country in the world can buy such equipment.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> The equipment should be shown here only if they are made in Vietnam, or they are some big cost and special item, like submarine. If they are not, what is the purpose. Even the poorest country in the world can buy such equipment.


this thread is about VN military news and discussions. the main purpose is to show the status of the Vietnamese Army as it is. It is not "made in VN" weapons. if we followed your foolish suggestion, this thread would be ended after 5 pages. Closed.

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## BoQ77

military training. I saw some evidence that Vietnam already get the Iskander-M from Russia.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I saw some evidence that Vietnam already get the Iskander-M from Russia.
> View attachment 131384



Please tell us more about that.


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## Viet

Pistoles

#TT-33 (K54)











#Makarov PM (K59)









#CZ 83

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## Viet

Handover of two new fishery patrol vessels: 39,8m length, width 7,8m, three diesel main engines with a total capacity of 4650 HP, speed of 18 knots / hour, range 5,000 nautical miles and continuous operation time of 50 days.

*KN-806 and KN-807*

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## Viet

FN FNC rifle, produced in Belgium





FN MAG machine gun







Galil ACE 23 rifle, with NATO bullets unlike those produced in Vietnam





Rifles (CZ Scorpion Evo 3, CZ-805 Bren A2, CZ-805 Bren A1), produced in Czech republic

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## Viet

New generation of GPS/DGPS navigation systems for the warships: _NAVI SAILOR 4000/4100_

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## Carlosa

Another good article to read:

America's Real Pivot: Time For a Treaty Alliance With Vietnam? | The National Interest Blog

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another good article to read:
> 
> America's Real Pivot: Time For a Treaty Alliance With Vietnam? | The National Interest Blog


unless commie chinese start a war, the chance is slim that a defence treaty comes into reality. both America and Vietnam are not ready yet. The problem is, if we ally with America now, China can see the move as a provocation, encirclement, war readiness/preparation, thing could become very ugly. we had seen such a thing in the past when we aligned with the Soviet Union.

So what is the possible solution? I think we should conduct secret talks with the US and Japan with the goal of a mutual defence treaty, and put our signature first if the hell breaks out.

the Premier Minister visits Germany currently and restates VN non-alignment policy. he also informs the german government about the current situation in the south china sea. the Merkel´s government maintains a neutral stance in the dispute.

Bundesregierung | Aktuelles | Partnerschaft mit Leben füllen

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## Viet

thứ Năm, 16/10/2014 13:48

it appears the Navy builds more of this gunships (TP400 class) as the company Sredne-Nevsky (Russia) announces to deliver weapon systems until 2015.





















Coast guard on patrol

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> unless commie chinese start a war, the chance is slim that a defence treaty comes into reality. both America and Vietnam are not ready yet. The problem is, if we ally with America now, China can see the move as a provocation, encirclement, war readiness/preparation, thing could become very ugly. we had seen such a thing in the past when we aligned with the Soviet Union.
> 
> So what is the possible solution? I think we should conduct secret talks with the US and Japan with the goal of a mutual defence treaty, and put our signature first if the hell breaks out.
> 
> the Premier Minister visits Germany currently and restates VN non-alignment policy. he also informs the german government about the current situation in the south china sea. the Merkel´s government maintains a neutral stance in the dispute.
> 
> Bundesregierung | Aktuelles | Partnerschaft mit Leben füllen



Yes, that makes sense and still, its good to see articles like that in the US press asking for a closer relationship with Vietnam.

Vietnam needs to play for time, there is a lot of secret military development under way. Unlike what the chinese clowns in this forum like to say, time benefits Vietnam and regardless of how much the chinese military grow, the military balance in the area will allow Vietnam to defend itself better and deter china more effectively as time goes on.



Viet said:


> thứ Năm, 16/10/2014 13:48
> 
> it appears the Navy builds more of this gunships (TP400 class) as the company Sredne-Nevsky (Russia) announces to deliver weapon systems until 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coast guard on patrol



There are 4 of those ships now and as I understand, they are going to do another batch of 2.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that makes sense and still, its good to see articles like that in the US press asking for a closer relationship with Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam needs to play for time, there is a lot of secret military development under way. Unlike what the chinese clowns in this forum like to say, time benefits Vietnam and regardless of how much the chinese military grow, the military balance in the area will allow Vietnam to defend itself better and deter china more effectively as time goes on.
> 
> There are 4 of those ships now and as I understand, they are going to do another batch of 2.


that is our nature, we usually don´t brag like the chinese do.

I can´t wait to see the Sigmars in the south china sea, equipped with Exocet antiship missiles. according to the news, MBDA (France) accerelates producing MM40 Exocet Block 3 for our Sigma 9814 warships. too sad, I don´t see much of them yet.


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## Chinese Muslim

Viet said:


> that is our nature, we usually don´t brag like the chinese do.
> 
> I can´t wait to see the Sigmars in the south china sea, equipped with Exocet antiship missiles. according to the news, MBDA (France) accerelates producing MM40 Exocet Block 3 for our Sigma 9814 warships. too sad, I don´t see much of them yet.


From the political point of view,Chinese and Vietnam is comrades.From look on the personal feelings,Chinese AttentionDiaoyu Islands.


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## Viet

Chinese Muslim said:


> From the political point of view,Chinese and Vietnam is comrades.From look on the personal feelings,Chinese AttentionDiaoyu Islands.


being a comrade, neighbor, brother/sister does not hinder you to bully vietnam. come on, we both know: china and vietnam are historic, regional rivals because of political differences. vietnam has a plan for south east asia, and that is not in your interests.

more or less the same applies to your neighbor japan, your historic nemesis. the big difference to japan is, we want a peaceful coexistence with china, while japan wants to subjugate china, and become the leader of asia.


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## Chinese Muslim

What do you think about 1978 12 25 Kampuchea?


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## Chinese Muslim




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## Viet

the airforce patrols the south china sea.














Chinese Muslim said:


> What do you think about 1978 12 25 Kampuchea?


the vietnamese invasion was necessary because

- cambodia started the war against vietnam, destroying our border cities and killing our people.
- cambodia committed genocide on own population with the aim of establishing a peasant utopia.
- the red khmer not only killed their own ethnics but vietnamese migrants.

China supported the killing. without backing of Beijing, Cambodia never dared to attack Vietnam. they know we can beat, annihilate, extinguish them if we want. we could wipe Cambodia off the map and enslave their people as we did to Champa.

BUT if one reviews, you can clearly see Vietnam did some major strategic mistakes: the occupation of cambodia was unnecessarily too long (1-2 years were enough instead of 10), and we failed to win support from the international community. the biggest mistake we ever made was we trusted China, that you would never attack Vietnam.

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## Viet

VN army chief General Thanh visits his counterpart Chinese Defense Minister Chang Wanquan this weekend. it is not about peace or war, but a very major important meeting between the two sides.

Why the Upcoming China-Vietnam Defense Ministers Meeting is Immensely Important | The Diplomat

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## Viet

Improved 57mm S-60 automatic anti-aircraft gun: faster readiness, range 4,000 meters with optical viewfinder or 6,000m with radar guide, can fire special ammo against enemy tanks.

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## visom

This is just a trivial thing, but why do Vietnamese officers wear green uniforms? I personally think it looks ugly and prefer black ones.


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## Carlosa

visom said:


> This is just a trivial thing, but why do Vietnamese officers wear green uniforms? I personally think it looks ugly and prefer black ones.



Its about camouflage, green is the typical color of the environment, black is not. Soldiers in black uniform would be easy to spot.

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## Viet

visom said:


> This is just a trivial thing, but why do Vietnamese officers wear green uniforms? I personally think it looks ugly and prefer black ones.


trivial? bro, I am afraid until we become rich and get fancy toys such as long range balistic missile, destroyer, nuclear sub and aircraft carrier, this thread will continue with all trivial things 

green camo is common under all armies in the world, black is more for police and special ops.
well, the crew of our Kilo submarine force wear dark blue.

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## Viet

two recent news give me a buzz (first source is german, second from swede):

between 1990 and 2013, Vietnam´s GDP per capita has increased from $600 to $3,900.
Pro & Contra: Börse Vietnam: Wachstum pur oder Sammelbecken schlecht geführter Staatsfirmen? - DAS INVESTMENT

defence budget has risen from $796m in 1994 to $7.8b in 2013, a nearly tenfold increase.
The Five Weapons Vietnam Needs Most to Take on a Rising China | RealClearDefense

hmmmmm...that means, our GDP as well as defence budget are more double than the current figures

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## Soryu

*C-295M* of Vietnam Air Force in Sevilla San Pablo - Spain:






The deal with Airbus worth $100m for 3 plane, and will hand over to Vietnam in 2015.

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## visom

Carlosa said:


> Its about camouflage, green is the typical color of the environment, black is not. Soldiers in black uniform would be easy to spot.


Wait, so this guy is not a police, just a soldier?





I know green is to camouflage but as for police officers, why not black haha. Green won't help you camouflage on concrete

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## Carlosa

visom said:


> Wait, so this guy is not a police, just a soldier?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know green is to camouflage but as for police officers, why not black haha. Green won't help you camouflage on concrete



Well, we were talking about the military. I don't know why the police uses green, maybe they are a paramilitary force as a secondary role, but I don't know. The traffic police use a very light beige, which is very unusual, looks like desert camo.

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## dichoi

Carlosa said:


> Well, we were talking about the military. I don't know why the police uses green, maybe they are a paramilitary force as a secondary role, but I don't know. The traffic police use a very light beige, which is very unusual, looks like desert camo.



yes, they are.

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## Carlosa

Another very good article to read:

India and Vietnam to sign a defence pact amid China’s growing aggression in region - The Economic Times

While everybody has been talking about the implications of USA lifting the arms embargo to Vietnam, it now seems that India is the real deal, not just for military purposes but also economically to help Vietnam end its dependence in China.

NEW DELHI: With a little over a month after President Pranab Mukherjee's Vietnam visit when a defence MoU was signed the two countries are expected to conclude another defence pact when Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung is in India on October 27-28 amid China's growing aggression in the region. .............................

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## vtnsx

Carlosa said:


> Another very good article to read:
> 
> India and Vietnam to sign a defence pact amid China’s growing aggression in region - The Economic Times
> 
> While everybody has been talking about the implications of USA lifting the arms embargo to Vietnam, it now seems that India is the real deal, not just for military purposes but also economically to help Vietnam end its dependence in China.
> 
> NEW DELHI: With a little over a month after President Pranab Mukherjee's Vietnam visit when a defence MoU was signed the two countries are expected to conclude another defence pact when Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung is in India on October 27-28 amid China's growing aggression in the region. .............................



Vietnam should never be dependent of China. That was a mistake.There's a reason why there's Vietnam as a country. Vietnamese people should stand up and become self sufficient and advance in technology.

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## Carlosa

vtnsx said:


> Vietnam should never be dependent of China. That was a mistake.There's a reason why there's Vietnam as a country. Vietnamese people should stand up and become self sufficient and advance in technology.



I totally agree with you. Its the country leadership that is at fault on those issues.

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## William Hung

Gessler said:


> 2 of these ships (will be designated as corvettes for Vietnam People's Navy) will be sold, with a cruise missile of
> their choice, mostly likely to be the Kh-35 Switchblade ASCM.



I just checked the Indian forums and this thread and realised that I've reposted an article. Then I realised that you guys haven't realised that some Indian members are discussing about a potential sale of their new 1.4ton missile corvettes to the Viet navy.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> I just checked the Indian forums and this thread and realised that I've reposted an article. Then I realised that you guys haven't realised that some Indian members are discussing about a potential sale of their new 1.4ton missile corvettes to the Viet navy.


it is better if India sells us the license/technololgy and we build the vessels by ourselves.



Carlosa said:


> Another very good article to read:
> 
> India and Vietnam to sign a defence pact amid China’s growing aggression in region - The Economic Times
> 
> While everybody has been talking about the implications of USA lifting the arms embargo to Vietnam, it now seems that India is the real deal, not just for military purposes but also economically to help Vietnam end its dependence in China.
> 
> NEW DELHI: With a little over a month after President Pranab Mukherjee's Vietnam visit when a defence MoU was signed the two countries are expected to conclude another defence pact when Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung is in India on October 27-28 amid China's growing aggression in the region. .............................


the chinese oil rig has changed everything. even the pro-china faction realises how the chinese pissed them off.


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## Viet

some news

Hanoi, Oktober 21: US-Vietnam defence dialogue with Amy Searight, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for South and Southeast Asia. the relationship to the superpower becomes more and more promising.







Beijing, Oct. 18: Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh meets Chinese Defense Minister Chang Wanquan, and Fan Changlong, Vice Chairman of China's Central Military Commission. It would be interesting if we know what they talked behind the closed doors. one thing is made public: both armies agree to avoid the use or threat of force. I don´t think that will work out as China increasingly becomes aggressive in the south china sea.

we must face the possibility of an armed confrontation.

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## Viet

Will Vietnam buy Kfir Mach 2+ block 60? Interesting: here is a report saying that the airforce intends to replace MIG-21 with the low-cost Israeli fighter jet. It is said a modernized Kfir costs $20m a piece. the price includes avionics and weaponry. operating cost is just about 25% of an equivalent fighter jet.

the jet equipped with electronically scanned array (AESA) radar can strike maritime targets. a perfect platform for the south china sea.

@Carlosa and friends, what do you think of the jet?

Cận cảnh "sư tử con" Kfir của Israel Việt Nam đang định mua

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## Viet

Missile vessel Osa II class, equipped with antiship P-15 missile Termit (range 80km) and heavy guns


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## Viet

From 12 to 14 October, the delegation Institute of Science and Technology of Vietnam visited Russia. The two sides resume discussions on the project "sky launch". Russian aircraft An-124-100VS will be used to carry a 100 tons put-and-drop rocket with up to 4 tons of payload into orbit. A ground infrastructure for maintenance and refuelling will be built at Cam Ranh airport.

Dự án "Khởi động trên không" có khả năng trở lại Việt Nam

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## Viet

historic photo: German famous anti-aircraft gun Flak 88 in the WW II. the Soviet Union delivered the captured weapons to the North Vietnamese Army in the 1960s.

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## Viet

Vietnamese and Chinese armies have agreed to set up a direct hotline, as the annoucement saying to "control possible incidents at sea that might lead to conflicts". 

Vietnam, China to Set Up Defense Hotline


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Will Vietnam buy Kfir Mach 2+ block 60? Interesting: here is a report saying that the airforce intends to replace MIG-21 with the low-cost Israeli fighter jet. It is said a modernized Kfir costs $20m a piece. the price includes avionics and weaponry. operating cost is just about 25% of an equivalent fighter jet.
> 
> the jet equipped with electronically scanned array (AESA) radar can strike maritime targets. a perfect platform for the south china sea.
> 
> @Carlosa and friends, what do you think of the jet?
> 
> Cận cảnh "sư tử con" Kfir của Israel Việt Nam đang định mua



I was thinking about this same thing last year and I did a bit of research on that. The number of airframes available is quite limited (I think just 24 planes), I don't think its worth all the logistical hassle and the planes are not going to be able to match the chinese J-10 A / B anyway. Colombia has been buying quite a few of those and that makes sense, they are not facing a high tech enemy.

After checking on that, I fantasized about getting upgraded mirage 2000's and I do feel good about that, much more capable plane. The Kfir is a copy and upgrade of the Mirage 5, quite outdated at this point, but still, if the quantity were to be good, and with a good AESA radar, etc and assuming the plane would be mostly for ground / naval attack and is fitted with good anti ship missiles, well, it could be ok, but in the air defense role I think not.

One other issue could also be that the Israelis have not interfaced the Kfir avionics with the type of anti ship missiles that Vietnam has, so that would need to be implemented, I'm not sure how easy that would be.

I think the Tejas MK2 would be a better deal and is also very cheap (whenever it becomes available).

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> it is better if India sells us the license/technololgy and we build the vessels by ourselves.



Don't be too greedy. Let the Indian shipyard get some orders. You are already given a $100 million credit line.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ithe chinese oil rig has changed everything. even the pro-china faction realises how the chinese pissed them off.



I hope you are right, but I'm not so sure, it seems like many in the pro china faction still give priority to be cozy cozy with their chinese comrades.



Black Flag said:


> I just checked the Indian forums and this thread and realised that I've reposted an article. Then I realised that you guys haven't realised that some Indian members are discussing about a potential sale of their new 1.4ton missile corvettes to the Viet navy.



Interesting info, thanks. What's the name of the thread where you've found this info?



Black Flag said:


> Don't be too greedy. Let the Indian shipyard get some orders. You are already given a $100 million credit line.



To make Viet happy, you need to give him an Aegis destroyer, anything less than that is just peanuts for him.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I hope you are right, but I'm not so sure, it seems like many in the pro china faction still give priority to be cozy cozy with their chinese comrades.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting info, thanks. What's the name of the thread where you've found this info?
> 
> 
> 
> To make Viet happy, you need to give him an Aegis destroyer, anything less than that is just peanuts for him.



It's in the Indian defence section, in the thread about the VN-Indian defence pact. This corvette was discussed on the first few pages. Oh yeah, Viet has already demanded the Indian to give better toys in that thread.


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I hope you are right, but I'm not so sure, it seems like many in the pro china faction still give priority to be cozy cozy with their chinese comrades.


during the oil rig crisis, some senior VCP members called their chinese "comrades" in Beijijng, but their commie brothers refused to talk, nor negotiate. this was a wakening moment, resulting to the public outcry of half of senior VCP members, calling for end of the relationship to China.


Carlosa said:


> To make Viet happy, you need to give him an Aegis destroyer, anything less than that is just peanuts for him.


exactly, bro, our navy needs 6 Aegis destroyers as early warning system, air defence in the south china sea 



Black Flag said:


> Don't be too greedy. Let the Indian shipyard get some orders. You are already given a $100 million credit line.


the $100 million credit is for buying 4-5 India made patrol vessels. as I said it is better if we build the India designed warships as we need orders and jobs for our 120 domestic shipyards.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I was thinking about this same thing last year and I did a bit of research on that. The number of airframes available is quite limited (I think just *24 planes*), I don't think its worth all the logistical hassle and the planes are not going to be able to match the chinese J-10 A / B anyway. Colombia has been buying quite a few of those and that makes sense, they are not facing a high tech enemy.
> 
> After checking on that, I fantasized about getting upgraded mirage 2000's and I do feel good about that, much more capable plane. The Kfir is a copy and upgrade of the Mirage 5, quite outdated at this point, but still, if the quantity were to be good, and with a good AESA radar, etc and assuming the plane would be mostly for ground / naval attack and is fitted with good anti ship missiles, well, it could be ok, but in the air defense role I think not.
> 
> One other issue could also be that the Israelis have not interfaced the Kfir avionics with the type of anti ship missiles that Vietnam has, so that would need to be implemented, I'm not sure how easy that would be.
> 
> I think the Tejas MK2 would be a better deal and is also very cheap (whenever it becomes available).


IAI of Israel can deliver up to 50 Kfirs. with each improved Kfir costing $20m, including weapons. I think the price is ok. some analysts even claim the Kfir jet outperforms S Korean F/A-50 trainer, which costs $38 million per unit (the Philippines buy it). I think the best way forward is convincing Israel to provide us with technology how to build the plane. It is really a shame that we don´t have much of aerospace industry.

Don´t get any info if the airforce is interested in upgraded Mirage-2000. the plane is not cheap. India orders the upgraded version, and they get headache about the cost. what about the performance of chinese J-10? allegedly comparable to SU-27. I think the improved Kfir is good enough to meet the J-10 eye by eye.

IAI Looks East To Sell Updated Kfirs | AWIN content from Aviation Week


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> the $100 million credit is for buying 4-5 India made patrol vessels. as I said it is better if we build the India designed warships as we need orders and jobs for our 120 domestic shipyards.



My Viet brother, I support our your workers and shipyards 100%. But we you must let the Indian shipyard get some orders too, it will be a mutual support thing. Perhaps a 50% split between foreign order and domestic built.


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## Viet

there is speculation 2 out of 6 the Kilo will be specialized on anti-sub warfare. Each Kilo can carry 24 guided torpedos. And that is not a secret if I say: the main operating terrain will be the waters around of Spratlys, tactic: hit and run (ambush).

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## C130

will any of the Kilo's use Klub?


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> My Viet brother, I support our your workers and shipyards 100%. But we you must let the Indian shipyard get some orders too, it will be a mutual support thing. Perhaps a 50% split between foreign order and domestic built.


he he he...don´t worry. If we build Indian designed warships then that will create jobs and revenues for Indian companies as well. Vietnam can´t produce everything alone. we import a lot of things, from radar to missile to computer.

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## Viet

C130 said:


> will any of the Kilo's use Klub?


yes, the Kilo carry 3M-54 Klub cruise missiles (Klub-S) against enemy surface warships and submarines.
Vietnam | Country Profiles | NTI


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> IAI of Israel can deliver up to 50 Kfirs. with each improved Kfir costing $20m, including weapons. I think the price is ok. some analysts even claim the Kfir jet outperforms S Korean F/A-50 trainer, which costs $38 million per unit (the Philippines buy it). I think the best way forward is convincing Israel to provide us with technology how to build the plane. It is really a shame that we don´t have much of aerospace industry.
> 
> Don´t get any info if the airforce is interested in upgraded Mirage-2000. the plane is not cheap. India orders the upgraded version, and they get headache about the cost. what about the performance of chinese J-10? allegedly comparable to SU-27. I think the improved Kfir is good enough to meet the J-10 eye by eye.
> 
> IAI Looks East To Sell Updated Kfirs | AWIN content from Aviation Week



Where did you get the info that they can supply 50 Kfirs? The quantity was one of my main issues.

The Kfir is actually way superior to the FA-50, I don't know why they are ordering that plane, they could it have ordered F-16's. The FA-50 is a poor man's fighter jet, its just a small trainer on steroids. It has zero chance against chinese planes. Indonesia got the upgraded F-16's at 31 million each.

J-10 and SU-27 are planes of different generations. The J-10B is actually quite good, has AESA radar, etc. The SU-27 is quite old if not upgraded. The J-10 A is actually the Israeli Lavi plane; after USA pushed Israel to not produce the plane, the Israelis sold the design to China, that's the plane that Israel was going to use to replace the Kfir's and now the J-10B version is further upgraded.

The Israelis provide the Kfir with the Maverick missile as the main ground attack weapon and besides the fact that VN needs to get USA permission to get that missile, the Maverick is not the right type of missile for the anti ship role and the range is very low; that's why I was saying that the plane would need to be integrated with the antiship missiles that VN has.

I also don't like much that the Kfir only has 2 pylons in each wing, total capacity to carry missiles and fuel tanks is a bit low (total umber of pylons in the plane is 6).

The Kfir for the maritime strike role with the right missiles and in a decent quantity would be ok. In the air defense role (which is the role of the Mig-21 after all) I think is not good enough.

The devil is in the details here, have to see first if VN is really interested and then Israel would it have to fine tune the plane further in order to meet the particular needs of VN.


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## Viet

Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the Vietnam People's Army in an official visit to India. Photo: Talk Vietnam
the airforce may be interested to the new long range cruise missile from India: Nirbhay. range: 1,500km. the SU-30 can carry and fire it from a safe distance

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Where did you get the info that they can supply 50 Kfirs? The quantity was one of my main issues.
> 
> The Kfir is actually way superior to the FA-50, I don't know why they are ordering that plane, they could it have ordered F-16's. The FA-50 is a poor man's fighter jet, its just a small trainer on steroids. It has zero chance against chinese planes. Indonesia got the upgraded F-16's at 31 million each.
> 
> J-10 and SU-27 are completely different planes and for different roles. The J-10B is actually quite good, has AESA radar, etc. The SU-27 is quite old and is just a ground attack plane. The J-10 A is actually the Israeli Lavi plane; after USA pushed Israel to not produce the plane, the Israelis sold the design to China, that's the plane that Israel was going to use to replace the Kfir's and now the J-10B version is further upgraded.
> 
> The Israelis provide the Kfir with the Maverick missile as the main ground attack weapon and besides the fact that VN needs to get USA permission to get that missile, the Maverick is not the right type of missile for the anti ship role and the range is very low; that's why I was saying that the plane would need to be integrated with the antiship missiles that VN has.
> 
> I also don't like much that the Kfir only has 2 pylons in each wing, total capacity to carry missiles and fuel tanks is a bit low (total umber of pylons in the plane is 6).
> 
> The Kfir for the maritime strike role with the right missiles and in a decent quantity would be ok. In the air defense role (which is the role of the Mig-21 after all) I think is not good enough.
> 
> The devil is in the details here, have to see first if VN is really interested and then Israel would it have to fine tune the plane further in order to meet the particular needs of VN.


the number (50) is taken from the article I posted IAI Looks East To Sell Updated Kfirs | AWIN content from Aviation Week good to fill 3 squadrons.
well, unlike chinese J-10, the Kfir has historic records of combats: air strikes as well as bombing missions. surely, the Kfir is not as modern as F-35 . even if Uncle Sam sells it, we can´t afford it 

I would say, Kfir is good enough to replace the aging MIG-21.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the number (50) is taken from the article I posted IAI Looks East To Sell Updated Kfirs | AWIN content from Aviation Week good to fill 3 squadrons.
> well, unlike chinese J-10, the Kfir has historic records of combats: air strikes as well as bombing missions. surely, the Kfir is not as modern as F-35 . even if Uncle Sam sells it, we can´t afford it
> 
> I would say, Kfir is good enough to replace the aging MIG-21.



Kfir is good enough to replace the obsolete MIG-21 since it is much better, but have to keep in mind what the threat is and that can make the whole difference, but if VN wants quantity and cheap, then why not?

If you give me the choice between the Kfir and the F-35, I'll go for the Kfir hands down. I totally dislike the F-35, just a super expensive white elephant that can't even perform its basic mission requirements.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Kfir is good enough to replace the obsolete MIG-21 since it is much better, but have to keep in mind what the threat is and that can make the whole difference, but if VN wants quantity and cheap, then why not?
> 
> If you give me the choice between the Kfir and the F-35, I'll go for the Kfir hands down. I totally dislike the F-35, just a super expensive white elephant that can't even perform its basic mission requirements.


LOL as I said once you are a very critical customer. not easy to sell toys to you  from Korea to Japan to Israel, all like F-35, but not you. 
yes, unbelieveable that our MIG-21 still continue to fly despite their age. but soon the MIG-21 will find their final place as museum pieces.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> LOL as I said once you are a very critical customer. not easy to sell toys to you  from Korea to Japan to Israel, all like F-35, but not you.
> yes, unbelieveable that our MIG-21 still continue to fly despite their age. but soon the MIG-21 will find their final place as museum pieces.



Absolutely, I'm a very picky customer, I will only take good stuff.

Actually, USA western allies are tied up to what US has in terms of stealth aircraft, they don't have other choices so they buy the F-35 and hope for the best. USA does not export the F-22, so no other choices. As the creator of the F-16 said the other day: "the F-35 can't climb, can't turn, can't run, the engine runs too hot and the stealth is very poor. In simulations, the SU-30 beats the hell out of the F-35, so............. why to bother to spend big money on the F-35?

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## Carlosa

*China's top diplomat to visit Vietnam again amid sea dispute*
BEIJING Thu Oct 23, 2014

(Reuters) - China's top diplomat will visit Vietnam next week, China said on Friday, five months after he last visited during a period of tension over a Chinese oil drilling rig working in part of the South China Sea both countries claim.

State Councilor Yang Jiechi, who outranks the foreign minister, will arrive in Vietnam on Monday for meetings with Vietnam Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, China's foreign ministry said in a statement.

The two would discuss "Sino-Vietnam bilateral cooperation", the ministry said. It did not elaborate.

Yang last went to Vietnam in June when he accused it of "hyping up" the row over the Chinese drilling rig in waters close to Vietnam but claimed by China.

The dispute lead to confrontation at sea between Chinese and Vietnamese government vessels and violent anti-Chinese protests in Vietnam, in one of the worst breakdowns in their relations since they fought a brief war in 1979.

Last week, Chinese and Vietnamese leaders met on the sidelines of an Asia-Europe summit in Italy and agreed to "address and control" maritime disputes.

Communist parties rule both countries and their trade has swelled to $50 billion annually, but Vietnam has long been suspicious of its giant neighbor, especially over China's claims to almost the entire South China Sea.

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## Viet

Yang Jiechi is said as a hardcore chinese nationalist. after his last visit to Vietnam, he bragged at home how he taught his small brother in the south


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## Viet

sideline meetings of the Prime Minister (he is a man of the pro-West faction) to 10th Asian-Europe Meeting (ASEM) Summit in Milan, October 16. his next visit will be India. I believe since the oil rig crisis he hates the chinese. Interesting he paid a visit to the Pope at Vatican as well. it appears his government is williing to give more freedoms to the churches at home.

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang





Japanese PM Shinzo Abe





France President Francois Hollande





Italian PM Matteo Renzi





Finish officials





EU commission President Manuel Barroso





Pope Francis at Vatican





Eminence Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Secretary of State of the Holy See

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yang Jiechi is said as a hardcore chinese nationalist. after his last visit to Vietnam, he bragged at home how he taught his small brother in the south



I guess his lesson didn't workout as expected so he has to come back again.



Viet said:


> sideline meetings of the Prime Minister (he is a man of the pro-West faction) to 10th Asian-Europe Meeting (ASEM) Summit in Milan, October 16. his next visit will be India. I believe since the oil rig crisis he hates the chinese. Interesting he paid a visit to the Pope at Vatican as well. it appears his government is williing to give more freedoms to the churches at home.
> 
> Chinese Premier Li Keqiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese PM Shinzo Abe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> France President Francois Hollande
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Italian PM Matteo Renzi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finish officials
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EU commission President Manuel Barroso
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pope Francis at Vatican
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eminence Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Secretary of State of the Holy See



He is doing good PR in Europe. Vietnam should have a free trade agreement with the EU in the next few months.


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## Viet

Ba Son shipyard: Missile boat HQ-381(BPS-500 class) is undergoing a complete overhaul with the support of the Russian company Rosoboronexport. the vessel will integrate new weapons and other modern equipments similar to Molniya class.


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## Viet

Vietnam made rifles: the first batch of 50 israeli Galil assault rifles were successfully testfired. Now the mass production can begin. The rifles are manufactured at the new $100m Factory Z111 and will gradually replace AK-47s.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I guess his lesson didn't workout as expected so he has to come back again.
> He is doing good PR in Europe. Vietnam should have a free trade agreement with the EU in the next few months.


the chinese are only willing to listen and negotiate if we are in a position of strength. but too bad: we started late with the modernization of the army and economy. we are miles behind them, but we still hold some secret jokers.

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## Zeenar

JF-17 is a great canditate to replace the old Mig-21 fleet.


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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> JF-17 is a great canditate to replace the old Mig-21 fleet.


Not a chance, China will not allow it.
And we don't want to use Chinese military products in nowaday....

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## AMDR

Soryu said:


> Not a chance, China will not allow it.
> And we don't want to use Chinese military products in nowaday....


The United States will start replacing its F-16C/Ds with F-35s soon. Maybe they will sell some F-16s to Vietnam for cheap price?


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## Soryu

AMDR said:


> The United States will start replacing its F-16C/Ds with F-35s soon. Maybe they will sell some F-16s to Vietnam for cheap price?


Maybe, with upgrade and refurbish ...

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## Carlosa

AMDR said:


> The United States will start replacing its F-16C/Ds with F-35s soon. Maybe they will sell some F-16s to Vietnam for cheap price?



That would be very possible, Indonesia is getting 24 F-16's C/D block 52, with life extension and upgrade for $31 million each (including spare parts and maintenance contract).


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## Zeenar

Soryu said:


> Not a chance, China will not allow it.
> And we don't want to use Chinese military products in nowaday....


Oh really? you don't want Chinese military products? Do you know that 80% of your weapons are Chinese? Do you know that the tank that rammed the gate of the Independence Palace is the Chinese Type 59? Do you know that most of your firearms are Chinese Type 56s?


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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> Oh really? you don't want Chinese military products? Do you know that 80% of your weapons are Chinese? Do you know that the tank that rammed the gate of the Independence Palace is the Chinese Type 59? Do you know that most of your firearms are Chinese Type 56s?


"Nowaday", ok !?
Which modern weapons we buy from Chinese !?
No.
Did you see the new Galil above !? Is it from Chinese !?


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## Zeenar

Soryu said:


> "Nowaday", ok !?
> Which modern weapons we buy from Chinese !?
> No.
> Did you see the new Galil above !? Is it from Chinese !?


Chinese weapons Nowadays are far better than the old junks that Russia is giving to you.


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## Nike

Zeenar said:


> Chinese weapons Nowadays are far better than the old junks that Russia is giving to you.



doesn't know if i can calling other countries product is a junk or not, but it was very irresponsible comment made by some Pakistani member. China indeed has a lot progress in their research and industrial capability and they can offer a lot of good stuff to all armed forces around the world. But please look at context here, Vietnam just had been locked in a very serious dispute with China and they just one bullet away from the breaks of war. It would be very illogical if Vietnam bought armaments from China or China willing to selling some of their military products to Vietnam. The situation here is almost like you suggesting Pakistan to bought some Tejas or Pinaka missile launcher from India.

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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> Chinese weapons Nowadays are far better than the old junks that Russia is giving to you.


LOL, you're so funny ...


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## Viet

AMDR said:


> The United States will start replacing its F-16C/Ds with F-35s soon. Maybe they will sell some F-16s to Vietnam for cheap price?


U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel will visit Vietnam soon this year. I bet he will present some gifts to the host: P-3 and possibly F-16 aircraft, too.



Zeenar said:


> JF-17 is a great canditate to replace the old Mig-21 fleet.


unless Vietnam, China resolve sea dispute and become allies, that is unlikely to happen.

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## Viet

a never ending story: Brahmos cruise missile. let see if the PM can convince India during his next visit. Russia has given a goahead of selling the rocket.
India, Vietnam to identify newer areas of cooperation - Livemint

and the new face of Vietnam:
Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Pham Thu Hang

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## Viet

some pics

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## Carlosa

Zeenar said:


> JF-17 is a great canditate to replace the old Mig-21 fleet.



JF-17 is a piece of junk; and chinese junk on top of that!

This is how the "special" relationship between Pakistan and China works:

PLAAF rejected JF-17 >> dumped in Pakistan
PLA rejected MBT-2000 >> dumped in Pakistan
PLANAF rejected CM-400AKG >> dumped in Pakistan

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> JF-17 is a piece of junk; and chinese junk on top of that!
> 
> This is how the "special" relationship between Pakistan and China works:
> 
> PLAAF rejected JF-17 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLA rejected MBT-2000 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLANAF rejected CM-400AKG >> dumped in Pakistan


really? LOL...best friend on earth. chinese are smart, rude business people as everybody knows it.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> JF-17 is a piece of junk; and chinese junk on top of that!
> 
> This is how the "special" relationship between Pakistan and China works:
> 
> PLAAF rejected JF-17 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLA rejected MBT-2000 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLANAF rejected CM-400AKG >> dumped in Pakistan



All are for the lucrative Export market. The Burmese are considering buying JF-17 & Bangladesh already have MBT-2000 on their stock.

Beside Russian weapons are complete piece of @#$^ just ask the Indian about how the Russian even treat its most loyal customer.


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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> JF-17 is a piece of junk; and chinese junk on top of that!
> 
> This is how the "special" relationship between Pakistan and China works:
> 
> PLAAF rejected JF-17 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLA rejected MBT-2000 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLANAF rejected CM-400AKG >> dumped in Pakistan


LOL, can't stop laugh ...  JF-17 is the best choice & affordable price to replace Mig-21 for Vietnam.


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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> JF-17 is a piece of junk; and chinese junk on top of that!
> 
> This is how the "special" relationship between Pakistan and China works:
> 
> PLAAF rejected JF-17 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLA rejected MBT-2000 >> dumped in Pakistan
> PLANAF rejected CM-400AKG >> dumped in Pakistan


Just because PLA doesn't want them doesn't mean that they are junks, and a single JF-17 could take down 10 of your Mig-21s, an Al-Khalid could probably have a kill ratio of _*1:10*_ with your old and shitty T-54s and YJ-12 is way cheaper than Yakhonts and it is as effective as Yakhont, Get your facts right before you say something stupid, kid, and remember to apply cold water on your burn.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> All are for the lucrative Export market. The Burmese are considering buying JF-17 & Bangladesh already have MBT-2000 on their stock.
> 
> Beside Russian weapons are complete piece of @#$^ just ask the Indian about how the Russian even treat its most loyal customer.


The export version of the T-90 is an example :d


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## Carlosa

Zeenar said:


> Just because PLA doesn't want them doesn't mean that they are junks, and a single JF-17 could take down 10 of your Mig-21s, an Al-Khalid could probably have a kill ratio of _*1:10*_ with your old and shitty T-54s and YJ-12 is way cheaper than Yakhonts and it is as effective as Yakhont, Get your facts right before you say something stupid, kid, and remember to apply cold water on your burn.
> 
> 
> The export version of the T-90 is an example :d



Only in your dreams kid.
If Pakistan will go to war against India with that stuff, you might as well start working on your burial preparations.

In case you don't know, chinese tanks participating in the Russian tank tournament a few months ago, did terribly, some broke down and were put out of commission, the others did pretty bad in terms of hitting their targets. Another fine example of high quality chinese weapons.

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> All are for the lucrative Export market. The Burmese are considering buying JF-17 & Bangladesh already have MBT-2000 on their stock.
> 
> Beside Russian weapons are complete piece of @#$^ just ask the Indian about how the Russian even treat its most loyal customer.



Wow, I'm very impressed now. Burma and Bangladesh decided to order those weapon systems (because of cheap chinese loans), therefore, they should be of high quality, got it now.

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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> Only in your dreams kid.
> If Pakistan will go to war against India with that stuff, you might as well start working on your burial preparations.
> 
> In case you don't know, chinese tanks participating in the Russian tank tournament a few months ago, did terribly, some broke down and were put out of commission, others did pretty bad in terms of hitting their targets. Another fine example of high quality chinese weapons.







Burial preparations? You think we're weak? Indians have already tried to prove what you've said 5 times bro and they failed.
Oh, and here is an example of your "high quality" modernized T-72 which was destroyed by a "shit quality" Chinese Type 96 in South Sudan, and BTW the term "Junk" is often used by the West to describe Russian military equipment.
And yeah Chineses tank were so bad they won 3rd place unlike those who don't even have tanks to compete and only can sit at home to criticize other's military equipment.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> Wow, I'm very impressed now. Burma and Bangladesh decided to order those weapon systems (because of cheap chinese loans), therefore, they should be of high quality, got it now.



Much higher quality than the Rusky can provide I'm sure. BTW the Rusky also notorious for backdoor dealing you will eventually have to pay more for its weapon system than what it is on the paper.


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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> View attachment 138175
> 
> Burial preparations? You think we're weak? Indians have already tried to prove what you've said 5 times bro and they failed.
> Oh, and here is an example of your "high quality" modernized T-72 which was destroyed by a "shit quality" Chinese Type 96 in South Sudan, and BTW the term "Junk" is often used by the West to describe Russian military equipment.
> And yeah Chineses tank were so bad they won 3rd place unlike those who don't even have tanks to compete and only can sit at home to criticize other's military equipment.



Really !? Can you give some more infos !? you bla bla bla ... so much about how good Chinese quality like you used it before ...


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## Zeenar

Soryu said:


> Really !? Can you give some more infos !? you bla bla bla ... so much about how good Chinese quality like you used it before ...


Mystery of the Type 96 Chinese cases slaughtered T series 72 | DBV | VietNam News
Info as you wanted, and I am using an Oppo phone which is Chinese to reply to your comments.


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## Carlosa

You guys keep giving examples of a chinese state of the art tank against a very old T-72, care to compare with T-90 anybody?



Zeenar said:


> Mystery of the Type 96 Chinese cases slaughtered T series 72 | DBV | VietNam News
> Info as you wanted, and I am using an Oppo phone which is Chinese to reply to your comments.



Type 96 is the one that got slaughtered in the Russian tank competition, that tells me enough.

In the Sudanese war you are comparing professional tank crews of the Sudanese army against the rag tag militias of South Sudan, not a proper comparison.


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## pher

Carlosa said:


> You guys keep giving examples of a chinese state of the art tank against a very old T-72, care to compare with T-90 anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> Type 96 is the one that got slaughtered in the Russian tank competition, that tells me enough.
> 
> In the Sudanese war you are comparing professional tank crews of the Sudanese army against the rag tag militias of South Sudan, not a proper comparison.


China has its T-99 to match russia's T-90, and far better.

As for tank competition, China's T-96 secured 3rd place among 11 participants in a match which russia set the evaluation criteria and strongly favored T-72, you call this slaughter? you ignorant troll. In fact, China T-96 is the only team who hit all the targets and have the most accurate firing power, far outperfoming T-72 of all other teams, which may explain what happened in Sudan.


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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> Only in your dreams kid.
> If Pakistan will go to war against India with that stuff, you might as well start working on your burial preparations.
> 
> In case you don't know, chinese tanks participating in the Russian tank tournament a few months ago, did terribly, some broke down and were put out of commission, the others did pretty bad in terms of hitting their targets. Another fine example of high quality chinese weapons.


LOL !  One thing u never admit, China type96A tank still won N.o3 in “2014 Russia Tank Race” and there'r 12 nation teams joint.
















What a Pity man ! 2015 take Vitnam to attend it let's see how long u can run... if u strong, to win a medal here.


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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> You guys keep giving examples of a chinese state of the art tank against a very old T-72, care to compare with T-90 anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> Type 96 is the one that got slaughtered in the Russian tank competition, that tells me enough.
> 
> In the Sudanese war you are comparing professional tank crews of the Sudanese army against the rag tag militias of South Sudan, not a proper comparison.


Old T-72? i don't think so, those T-72Es were hijacked from a cargo ship of Ukraine by Somali pirates then sold to South Sudaneses.
Here's the specifications of the thing you called "old".
Upgraded version of the T-72B ("E" stands for "Export") showed at IDEX 2011 and developed together with the T-64E. The hull front and sides are protected by Kontakt-1 ERA boxes, while the turret front, sides (sides' frontal part) and top is homogeneously protected by "Nozh" armor. The engine is upgraded, it is an 5TDFMA-1 multi-fuel diesel engine, developing 1050 hp. The tank features also air conditioning, day-and-night sighting system with integrated laser rangefinder and ATGM capability.
Source: Wikipedia


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## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> LOL !  One thing u never admit, China type96A tank still won N.o3 in “2014 Russia Tank Race” and there'r 12 nation teams joint.
> 
> View attachment 138217
> 
> View attachment 138219
> 
> View attachment 138218
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a Pity man ! 2015 take Vitnam to attend it let's see how long u can run... if u strong, to win a medal here.



The facts are that Russian tanks won the competition. China sent 2 Type 96 tanks, one broke down and had to quit the competition (considering that everybody will make sure that they are sending tanks in top shape, that speaks a lot about the reliability of the type 96). The other tank did very poorly in hitting targets with accuracy in comparison to the russian tanks. The fact that other countries did worse than china (with old tanks usually) doesn't change the fact that Russian tanks beat up the type 96. Case closed!


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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> The facts are that Russian tanks won the competition. China sent 2 Type 96 tanks, one broke down and had to quit the competition (considering that everybody will make sure that they are sending tanks in top shape, that speaks a lot about the reliability of the type 96). The other tank did very poorly in hitting targets with accuracy in comparison to the russian tanks. The fact that other countries did worse than china (with old tanks usually) doesn't change the fact that Russian tanks beat up the type 96. Case closed!


Russian driving T-72BV, other all 12 nations driving T-72BIII tanks, Chinese driving Type96A.

Who beat who ? T-72BV is the special tank with T-90's 1,200hp engine only for Russia Tank Race, Russian never export it but T-72BIII yes.


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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> The facts are that Russian tanks won the competition. China sent 2 Type 96 tanks, one broke down and had to quit the competition (considering that everybody will make sure that they are sending tanks in top shape, that speaks a lot about the reliability of the type 96). The other tank did very poorly in hitting targets with accuracy in comparison to the russian tanks. The fact that other countries did worse than china (with old tanks usually) doesn't change the fact that Russian tanks beat up the type 96. Case closed!


Russia used a heavily Modernized version of T-72 which is called T-72B3M
Changes from T-72:
Upgrade of T-72B3M is equipped with a paronamic commander sight and automatic tranmission and drive control system, it is upgraded with new fire control system including a gunner's thermal sight, "Nakidka" camouflage kit, new 125 mm 2A46M-5 main gun with muzzle reference system, V-92S2 1,000 hp diesel engine and new "Relikt" 3rd generation explosive reactive armour which is claimed to be twice as effective as Kontakt-5

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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> Mystery of the Type 96 Chinese cases slaughtered T series 72 | DBV | VietNam News
> Info as you wanted, and I am using an Oppo phone which is Chinese to reply to your comments.


you're so funny, use Oppo phone to prove how good Chinese military products are ... 



cnleio said:


> Russian driving T-72BV, other all 12 nations driving T-72BIII tanks, Chinese driving Type96A.
> 
> Who beat who ? T-72BV is the special tank with T-90's 1,200hp engine only for Russia Tank Race, Russian never export it but T-72BIII yes.


OK, your type 96 > T-72, good, good ... let happy, buddy. 
But we're still not use your military equipments


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## Zeenar

Soryu said:


> Really !? Can you give some more infos !? you bla bla bla ... so much about how *good Chinese quality* like you used it before ...


I did not find any word related to military equipments in your *statement.*


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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> I did not find any word related to military equipments in your *statement.*


Errr ... you didn't know what 're we discusses !? 
Ok, my mistake in words ...


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## Carlosa

By the way, Vietnam already deployed T-90 and T-72M1M (a heavily ungraded version of T-72 that is equivalent to the T-90A.

If you guys want a real test of the Type 96, send them against Vietnam and for each one that you send, VN will give you back a truckload of chinese junk metal (free of charge).


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## Steakhouse

Vietnam measly less than 2 billions dollar military budget call other nation military hardware junk, Vietnam doesn't have money to pay for the junk imported from Russia let alone downgrade China military equipment as junk status. Even junk equipment Vietnam can't afford to buy and need India 100 millions dollars soft loan just to pay to modernize Vietnam outdated military.



Carlosa said:


> By the way, Vietnam already deployed T-90 and T-72M1M (a heavily ungraded version of T-72 that is equivalent to the T-90A.
> 
> If you guys want a real test of the Type 96, send them against Vietnam and for each one that you send, VN will give you back a truckload of chinese junk metal (free of charge).





Vietnam don't have the money to pay for the top of the line equipment

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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> By the way, Vietnam already deployed T-90 and T-72M1M (a heavily ungraded version of T-72 that is equivalent to the T-90A.
> 
> If you guys want a real test of the Type 96, send them against Vietnam and for each one that you send, VN will give you back a truckload of chinese junk metal (free of charge).


Vietnam have T-90 and T-72??? What a joke 
Poland offered you people upgraded T-72s many years ago and you didn't even have *money* to buy them

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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> OK, your type 96 > T-72, good, good ... let happy, buddy.
> But we're still not use your military equipments


The type96 tanks r as same position as T-72B in Russia Army, cheaper & low-level MBT in China Army : 
Type96 << Type99 << Type99A MBT, China has best MBT is Type99A, 96 tank worse than it.


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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> By the way, Vietnam already deployed T-90 and T-72M1M (a heavily ungraded version of T-72 that is equivalent to the T-90A.
> 
> If you guys want a real test of the Type 96, send them against Vietnam and for each one that you send, VN will give you back a truckload of chinese junk metal (free of charge).


And T-72M1M is an Soviet export version of the T-72M1 protected by Kontakt-1, with thicker armour and similar to T-72A obr.1979g. It also is fitted with 7+5 smoke grenade dischargers on turret front.
Just T-72 with a little improved armour added and you call it equal to T-90A?

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## Carlosa

You guys are badly up to date on what Vietnam has or about the military budget. If you know anything about the Vietnamese military you would know that they don't announce new weapon systems until they already bought newer ones.

VN's military budget in 2013 was 7.8 billion dollars and climbing fast.



Zeenar said:


> And T-72M1M is an Soviet export version of the T-72M1 protected by Kontakt-1, with thicker armour and similar to T-72A obr.1979g. It also is fitted with 7+5 smoke grenade dischargers on turret front.
> Just T-72 with a little improved armour added and you call it equal to T-90A?



Let me clarify things for you, T-72M1M as from Belarus, not a soviet version, totally different.



Zeenar said:


> Vietnam have T-90 and T-72??? What a joke
> Poland offered you people upgraded T-72s many years ago and you didn't even have *money* to buy them



Funny, I guess the failed state of Pakistan has a lot of money, right?


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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> You guys are badly up to date on what Vietnam has or about the military budget. If you know anything about the Vietnamese military you would know that they don't announce new weapon systems until they already bought newer ones.
> 
> VN's military budget in 2013 was 7.8 billion dollars and climbing fast.
> 
> 
> 
> Let me clarify things for you, T-72M1M as from Belarus, not a soviet version, totally different.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, I guess the failed state of Pakistan has a lot of money, right?


Don't call other countries failed when you are in the same group with them and Belarus does not modify T-72s they only bought T-72Bs from Russia, nothing else.
P.S: Nổ vừa thôi cha nội.


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## Carlosa

Zeenar said:


> Don't call other countries failed when you are in the same group with them and Belarus does not modify T-72s they only bought T-72Bs from Russia, nothing else.
> P.S: Nổ vừa thôi cha nội.



I suggest you check your information about T-72M1M again. 
Vietnam a failed state? First time I hear that, care to show me some news articles or something that show that? You wish Pakistan were to resemble a country like Vietnam. In what madrasa did you get your education?


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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> Don't call other countries failed when you are in the same group with them and Belarus does not modify T-72s they only bought T-72Bs from Russia, nothing else.
> P.S: *Nổ vừa thôi cha nội*.


LOL, he know Vietnamese .... what a joke ... 

@Viet @Rechoice @EastSea @dichoi @ViXuyen @Battle of Bach Dang River


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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> I suggest you check your information about T-72M1M again.
> Vietnam a failed state? First time I hear that, care to show me some news articles or something that show that? You wish Pakistan were to resemble a country like Vietnam. In what madrasa did you get your education?


Lolololol, i live in Ho Chi Minh city and go to a public school not a Madrassa, and, If Vietnam doesn't announce about their new military equipment then how do you know?


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## Alvin Edward

It's true. Vietnam have not announce about their new equipment... yet.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> LOL, he know Vietnamese .... what a joke ...
> 
> @Viet @Rechoice @EastSea @dichoi @ViXuyen @Battle of Bach Dang River



He definitely is a joke!!!!!


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## Soryu

Steakhouse said:


> Vietnam don't have the money to pay for the top of the line equipment


LOL, we have Su-30, Kilo submarines and many other good equipments ...

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## Carlosa

Zeenar said:


> Lolololol, i live in Ho Chi Minh city and go to a public school not a Madrassa, and, If Vietnam doesn't announce about their new military equipment then how do you know?



I'm sorry man, but seriously, your last statement really show that you don't really know much about the Vietnamese military.

Don't ask me why, its not my policy, but the way it is in Vietnam, they are super secretive about everything in the military. They can't hide ships and planes, but other than that, good luck if you want to depend on announcements.

And I hope you don't expect to get an accurate picture of the Vietnamese military from the Wikipedia either.

They will announce the T-90 when they get the new Armata tank from Russia. That's how it works in Vietnam.

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## Steakhouse

Soryu said:


> LOL, we have Su-30, Kilo submarines and many other good equipments ...





How many kilo submarine and how many su30 Vietnam bought from Russia? Yea being able to pay for couple of kilo submarine is not something to brag about. 7 billions dollars military budget not much compare to China over 130 billions dollar military budget.


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## Alvin Edward

Steakhouse said:


> How many kilo submarine and how many su30 Vietnam bought from Russia? Yea being able to pay for couple of kilo submarine is not something to brag about. 7 billions dollars military budget not much compare to China over 130 billions dollar military budget.



6 for the Kilos and approximately 4 batch of them... has been announced on the news, of course. Vietnamese military budget ain't a problem, the important is how is the relations between Vietnam and the rest of the world. The important is not how many equipment does Vietnamese Military have, the key here is if the new equipment suits the environment in Vietnam. 

And bragging is to hold off China's aggression as long as possible. That's why only a few of the new weaponry and equipment are "announced" on the news.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> All are for the lucrative Export market. The Burmese are considering buying JF-17 & Bangladesh already have MBT-2000 on their stock.
> 
> Beside* Russian weapons *are complete piece of @#$^ just ask the Indian about how the Russian even treat its most loyal customer.


but how comes your country indonesia buys russian weapons if they are junk?
I will always favor Russian any time over Chinese made toys.

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## Soryu

Steakhouse said:


> How many kilo submarine and how many su30 Vietnam bought from Russia? Yea being able to pay for couple of kilo submarine is not something to brag about. 7 billions dollars military budget not much compare to China over 130 billions dollar military budget.



LOL, you're so funny, their GDP is $9.469 trillion and us is $170.020 billion ... 
But what did you say !? you drunk too much !?



> Vietnam don't have the money to pay for the top of the line equipment


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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> Oh really? you don't want Chinese military products? Do you know that *80% of your weapons are Chinese*? Do you know that the tank that rammed the gate of the Independence Palace is the Chinese Type 59? Do you know that most of your firearms are Chinese Type 56s?


where do you get this bullshit?

No, currently estimated 90 per cent of VN military hardware come from Russia. but this figure is expected to decrease in the times to come as we will source more and more from western countries.


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## Zeenar

Viet said:


> where do you get this bullshit?
> 
> No, currently estimated 90 per cent of VN military hardware come from Russia. but this figure is expected to decrease in the times to come as we will source more and more from western countries.


I got this bullshit from conscription in the VPA last year, anything else to say?


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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> Just because PLA doesn't want them doesn't mean that they are junks, and a single JF-17 could take down 10 of your Mig-21s, an Al-Khalid could probably have a kill ratio of _*1:10*_ with your old and shitty T-54s and YJ-12 is way cheaper than Yakhonts and it is as effective as Yakhont, Get your facts right before you say something stupid, kid, and remember to apply cold water on your burn.
> 
> 
> The export version of the T-90 is an example :d


yes, you assume our improved MIG-21, modenrized T-54/55 don´t shoot back? what a delusional poster.



Zeenar said:


> I got this bullshit from conscription in the VPA last year, anything else to say?


does this newbee tell you Vietnam has nuclear submarines? surely it is true.


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## Alvin Edward

Zeenar said:


> I got this bullshit from conscription in the VPA last year, anything else to say?



I recommended that you need to learn about my country's history why we have Chinese Type 56 and then check again your comment

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## Zeenar

Viet said:


> yes, you assume our improved MIG-21, modenrized T-54/55 don´t shoot back? what a delusional poster.
> 
> 
> does this newbee tell you Vietnam has nuclear submarines?


Yea you can't shoot because when you found them on the radar you're already hit.



Alvin Edward said:


> I recommended that you need to learn about my country's history why we have Chinese Type 56 and then check again your comment


You claim to know everything about your army but have you served in the VPA yet?


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## Alvin Edward

Zeenar said:


> You claim to know everything about your army but have you served in the VPA yet?



I didn't claim that I know everything. That is basic military history, my friend.


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## Steakhouse

Zeenar said:


> Yea you can't shoot because when you found them on the radar you're already hit.
> 
> 
> You claim to know everything about your army but have you served in the VPA yet?






How can he serve his country if he live abroad?


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## Viet

Steakhouse said:


> How many kilo submarine and how many su30 Vietnam bought from Russia? Yea being able to pay for couple of kilo submarine is not something to brag about. 7 billions dollars military budget not much compare to China over 130 billions dollar military budget.


if I recall, China is multiple bigger than Vietnam.


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## Steakhouse

Viet said:


> but how comes your country indonesia buys russian weapons if they are junk?
> I will always favor Russian any time over Chinese made toys.






Even you want to buy China armament, you don't have the money to pay for it, stop b.s what you prefer.



Viet said:


> if I recall, China is multiple bigger than Vietnam.





I compare China military expenditure to Vietnam just to prove Vietnam can't afford the quantity and the quality China military armament in China possession.


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## Alvin Edward

Steakhouse said:


> How can he serve his country if he live abroad?



I do serve my country's military, but my job is a military advisor, stationed inside Vietnam - Japan Consulate

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## Steakhouse

Alvin Edward said:


> I do serve my country's military, but my job is a military advisor, stationed inside Vietnam - Japan Consulate





You are a Japanese?

You are an adviser to Japanese military?


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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> Yea you can't shoot because when you found them on the radar you're already hit.


ha ha ha...we will see. our MIG-21s have an improved radar: RP-22 look-down/shoot-down


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## Alvin Edward

Steakhouse said:


> You are a Japanese?
> You are an adviser to Japanese military?



No, I am Vietnamese. I am an advisor for VPA but stationed in JP.



Steakhouse said:


> I compare China military expenditure to Vietnam just to prove Vietnam can't afford the quantity and the quality China military armament in China possession.



Not everything.

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## Carlosa

Steakhouse said:


> Even you want to buy China armament, you don't have the money to pay for it, stop b.s what you prefer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I compare China military expenditure to Vietnam just to prove Vietnam can't afford the quantity and the quality China military armament in China possession.



And why would Vietnam need to buy the same quantity of weaponry that China buys? 

Does Vietnam have multiple threats from many directions, such as USA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Russia, India, Vietnam, South China Sea as in the case of China?

Does Vietnamese territory, about 30 times smaller than China require the same military effort to defend as the much larger chinese territory?

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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> I got this bullshit from conscription in the VPA last year, anything else to say?


You are Pakistani and you served in VPA ... LMAO ...


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## Viet

Steakhouse said:


> Vietnam measly less than 2 billions dollar military budget call other nation military hardware junk, Vietnam doesn't have money to pay for the junk imported from Russia let alone downgrade China military equipment as junk status. Even junk equipment Vietnam can't afford to buy and need India 100 millions dollars soft loan just to pay to modernize Vietnam outdated military.
> 
> Vietnam don't have the money to pay for the top of the line equipment


Vietnam defence budget is $7.8b (2013), GDP per capita $3,900 (or nominal GDP $358.8b). these figures are higher than from the government and other foreign instances announce. If you bother to look at our navy, we will have the most modern, powerful fleet in SEA in 3-4 years.

The Five Weapons Vietnam Needs Most to Take on a Rising China | RealClearDefense
Pro & Contra: Börse Vietnam: Wachstum pur oder Sammelbecken schlecht geführter Staatsfirmen? - DAS INVESTMENT


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## Steakhouse

Carlosa said:


> And why would Vietnam need to buy the same quantity of weaponry that China buys?
> 
> Does Vietnam have multiple threats from many directions, such as USA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Russia, India, Vietnam, South China Sea as in the case of China?
> 
> Does Vietnamese territory, about 30 times smaller than China require the same military effort to defend as the much larger chinese territory?





Vietnam face China threat more than enough to give Vietnamese government sleepless night.



Viet said:


> Vietnam defence budget is $7.8b (2013), GDP per capita $3,900 (or nominal GDP $358.8b). these figures are higher than from the government and other foreign instances announce. If you bother to look at our navy, we will have the most modern, powerful fleet in SEA in 3-4 years.
> 
> The Five Weapons Vietnam Needs Most to Take on a Rising China | RealClearDefense
> Pro & Contra: Börse Vietnam: Wachstum pur oder Sammelbecken schlecht geführter Staatsfirmen? - DAS INVESTMENT






Who care about military budget per capita, 7 billions dollars budget cover soldiers salary, maintaining equipment, everyday military expenditure, how much left for the military to buy new weapons?


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## Carlosa

Steakhouse said:


> Vietnam face China threat more than enough to give Vietnamese government sleepless night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who care about military budget per capita, 7 billions dollars budget cover soldiers salary, maintaining equipment, everyday military expenditure, how much left for the military to buy new weapons?



Vietnamese sleepless about the Chinese threat? Have you ever met Vietnamese or ever been in Vietnam?

Vietnamese will just drank a few beers to the Chinese threat and say: Bring it on baby!!!!

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## Viet

Steakhouse said:


> Vietnam face China threat more than enough to give Vietnamese government sleepless night.


LOL I wonder why you speak for the chinese?


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## Alvin Edward

Carlosa said:


> Does Vietnam have multiple threats from many directions, such as USA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Russia, India, Vietnam, South China Sea as in the case of China?



I don't think JP is a threat to Vietnam. JP - VN relations are getting better and better everyday, both in economy and military. I don't quite clear about economy, but in military, both country has held a lot of military exercises.

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## Viet

Alvin Edward said:


> No, I am Vietnamese. I am an advisor for VPA but stationed in JP.


cool! can you tell me some of your duties in JP?


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## Carlosa

Alvin Edward said:


> I don't think JP is a threat to Vietnam. JP - VN relations are getting better and better everyday, both in economy and military. I don't quite clear about economy, but in military, both country has held a lot of military exercises.



You misunderstand me bro, I was referring to the threats that China faces.

I was trying to show that China needs a far bigger military budget than Vietnam since they have a lot of threats while Vietnam only has one (China).

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## Alvin Edward

Viet said:


> cool! can you tell me some of your duties in JP?



I mostly advising when there is a joint exercise are held, training JP troops and protect the Consulate.



Carlosa said:


> And why would Vietnam need to buy the same quantity of weaponry that China buys?
> 
> Does Vietnam have multiple threats from many directions, such as USA, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Russia, India, Vietnam, South China Sea as in the case of China?
> 
> Does Vietnamese territory, about 30 times smaller than China require the same military effort to defend as the much larger chinese territory?



Sorry for the misunderstood, friend.

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## Steakhouse

Carlosa said:


> Vietnamese sleepless about the Chinese threat? Have you ever met Vietnamese or ever been in Vietnam?
> 
> Vietnamese will just drank a few beers to the Chinese threat and say: Bring it on baby!!!!





Lol for sure, why didn't Vietnam navy attack Chinese oil rig but instead rely on Vietnam fishermen it harass China oil rig and got sunk by ramming Chinese ship?


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## Carlosa

Steakhouse said:


> Lol for sure, why didn't Vietnam navy attack Chinese oil rig but instead rely on Vietnam fishermen it harass China oil rig and got sunk by ramming Chinese ship?



What vietnamese fishermen? They were all Vietnamese coast guard and also fisheries protection vessels. The chinese are the ones that used fishing boats, that's not me saying it, read the international press. You seem to be quite brainwashed by chinese propaganda man.

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## Alvin Edward

Steakhouse said:


> Lol for sure, why didn't Vietnam navy attack Chinese oil rig but instead rely on Vietnam fishermen it harass China oil rig and got sunk by ramming Chinese ship?



If you want WW3 then go and attack. China will have a reason to use military to attack VN, and we already have enough problems buying equipments for the entire army, not to mention Hanoi will soon be overrun if the Chinese pouring in like water crushing down on a waterfall.


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## Viet

Alvin Edward said:


> I mostly advising when there is a joint exercise are held, training JP troops and protect the Consulate.


I would love to see our navy plays some war games with the Japanese in the South China Sea.
should we get some destroyers in the future, we could make some games in the Sea of Japan, too.

do you know any of our future plans for our navy?


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## Steakhouse

Carlosa said:


> What vietnamese fishermen? They were all Vietnamese coast guard and also fisheries protection vessels. The chinese are the ones that used fishing boats, that's not me saying it, read the international press. You seem to be quite brainwashed by chinese propaganda man.






Vietnam wooden boat sunk by the collision with China ship head on. This not China propaganda but report by Vietnam new broadcast post on YouTube.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I was trying to show that China needs a far bigger military budget than Vietnam since they have a lot of threats while Vietnam only has one (China).


the VN government now considers China as a serious threat for our national security. the new state budget reflects this sentiment. defence spending enjoys highest priority, even higher than wage increase for civil servants.

the perception of threat has changed.

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## Alvin Edward

Viet said:


> would love to see our navy plays some war games with the Japanese in the South China Sea.
> should we get some destroyers in the future, we could make some games in the Sea of Japan, too.



You will soon, especially when the Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution has changed.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I would love to see our navy plays some war games with the Japanese in the South China Sea.
> should we get some destroyers in the future, we could make some games in the Sea of Japan, too.
> 
> do you know any of our future plans for our navy?



As an example (for Alvin), I would also add, do you know if VN will exercise the option to build another 4 Molniya class ships under license?


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## Steakhouse

Viet said:


> the VN government now considers China as a serious threat for our national security. the new state budget reflects this sentiment. defence spending enjoys highest priority, even higher than wage increase for civil servants.





Vietnam better increase 50 percent of Vietnam GDP to modernize Vietnam military 7 billions not much be in the arm race with China.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> but how comes your country indonesia buys russian weapons if they are junk?
> I will always favor Russian any time over Chinese made toys.



We're slowly switching to Euro-Korean. The Sukhoi or Kilo is the only thing that pique the interest of buying. Other than that... Pfft.


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## Alvin Edward

Carlosa said:


> As an example, I would also add, do you know if VN will exercise the option to build another 4 Molniya class ships under license?



The date are unknown, but it will when the new Russian Shipyard capable of building Submarines and even Aircraft Carriers are completed in Vietnam.



Steakhouse said:


> Vietnam better increase 50 percent of Vietnam GDP to modernize Vietnam military 7 billions not much be in the arm race with China.



Strong equipment and having a lot of weapons but crappy tactics equals losing the battle.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the VN government now considers China as a serious threat for our national security. the new state budget reflects this sentiment. defence spending enjoys highest priority, even higher than wage increase for civil servants.
> 
> the perception of threat has changed.



Surely, in my non expert view of things, I would estimate that if VN can have a military budget of about 10% of China, that would be sufficient to fend them off. That would be around 14-15 billion dollars. VN is at almost 8 and increasing fast, I think it is a realistic goal. What do you think?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> We're slowly switching to Euro-Korean. The Sukhoi or Kilo is the only thing that pique the interest of buying. Other than that... Pfft.



I think president Jokowe has a different idea.


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## Alvin Edward

Carlosa said:


> Surely, in my non expert view of things, I would estimate that if VN can have a military budget of about 10% of China, that would be sufficient to fend them off. That would be around 14-15 billion dollars. VN is at almost 8 and increasing fast, I think it is a realistic goal. What do you think?



It is increasing fast, and it's true. VPA are self-defense only, not to invade other countries like the US.


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## Carlosa

Alvin Edward said:


> Strong equipment and having a lot of weapons but crappy tactics equals losing the battle.



And not even talk about crappy training and a lot of corruption in the military where officers buy their promotions. Most Chinese recruits are of a very bad quality. If they go to war with that........... good luck.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> I think president Jokowe has a different idea.



He's with the PDI they and Rosoboronoexport are in bed together. That's why I don't like Russia. They know they sell crap and can only win by bribing.


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## Carlosa

Steakhouse said:


> Vietnam wooden boat sunk by the collision with China ship head on. This not China propaganda but report by Vietnam new broadcast post on YouTube.



You have your facts wrong, that fishing vessel was not in the area of the oil rig, it was unrelated to that whole thing, but it was rammed by the chinese vessels anyway.

Again, you read too much chinese propaganda.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> He's with the PDI they and Rosoboronoexport are in bed together. That's why I don't like Russia. They know they sell crap and can only win by bribing.



Sure, Russia only sells crap, that's why China wants to get the S-400 and the SU-35 so badly. 
Not even talk about the chinese air force depending on Russia for jet engines because they still can't make good engines. The new chinese attack helicopter was designed by Russia at China's request. Russia is also supplying Amur submarines to Russia, but yes, Russian equipment is crap, right?

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## Carlosa

Steakhouse said:


> Vietnam better increase 50 percent of Vietnam GDP to modernize Vietnam military 7 billions not much be in the arm race with China.



7 billion is not a lot, but its double what it was 3 years ago and increasing fast.

Vietnam makes the money go a long way, unlike China where 20% of the military budget is wasted because of corruption.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> Sure, Russia only sells crap, that's why China wants to get the S-400 and the SU-35 so badly.
> Not even talk about the chinese air force depending on Russia for jet engines because they still can't make good engines. The new chinese attack helicopter was designed by Russia at China's request. Russia is also supplying Amur submarines to Russia, but yes, Russian equipment is crap, right?



You talking about specific products not entire overall product in comparison with their competitor. What makes you think we start diversifying weapon systems by buying from different store. Just look at India the country been burned by the Russian too many time by supplying it faulty, shoddy weapons & unfair trade deal it even started buying from the US & Israel. Ask the Indian they know more about being burned by the Russian.

Between Russian or Chinese hardware I'll take China. More relaxed trade deal, ToT negotiable & cheaper. Not to mention that Chinese weapons are a lot more innovative & high tech than the Russian do.

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## William Hung

VietNamese brothers, do not say anything about Pakistan because of this Zeenar guy. He is just a Chinese pretending to be a Pakistani.

No real Pakistani would normally talk trash about Russia. This Zeenar guy join PDF just to talk trash about VN and Russian weapons. A 50 center no doubt.

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## NarThoD

what reashot means, why Indo is switching to Europe/west as her main arms supplier...because their economy is slowing down and they selling their arsenals along with their tech at cheap price. look at South Korea. we just buy 3 subs from them, and they willingly to give us their sub tech. and we buy 103 Leopards for only 280 million.

unlike Russia, they selling us rusted Kilo subs ...which is quite expensive to retrofitted. I suggest Viet to look west after the embargo lifted.


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## Alvin Edward

Black Flag said:


> VietNamese brothers, do not say anything about Pakistan because of this Zaneer guy. He is just a Chinese pretending to be a Pakistani.
> No real Pakistani would normally talk trash about Russia. This guy join PDF just to talk trash about VN and Russian weapons. A 50 cent no doubt.



That's explain why this guy has so much hatred on Russia and Vietnam.



NarThoD said:


> what reashot means, why Indo is switching to Europe/west as her main arms supplier...because their economy is slowing down and they selling their arsenals along with their tech at cheap price. look at South Korea. we just buy 3 subs from them, and they willingly to give us their sub tech. and we buy 103 Leopards for only 280 million.
> 
> unlike Russia, they selling us rusted Kilo subs ...which is quite expensive to retrofitted. I suggest Viet to look west after the embargo lifted.



You may wanna re-check how are your country's relations with Russia, it's the reason why Russia sell you "rusted Kilo subs".


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## z3ta311

Carlosa said:


> By the way, Vietnam already deployed T-90 and T-72M1M (a heavily ungraded version of T-72 that is equivalent to the T-90A.
> 
> If you guys want a real test of the Type 96, send them against Vietnam and for each one that you send, VN will give you back a truckload of chinese junk metal (free of charge).


only a few words for you: stop m*sturbate please. we have T90 and T72M1M?
what a joke. and you said that they will publish the T90 when the armatas come? where did ya get that from?? comrade commisar???????? i'm dead laughing


----------



## Alvin Edward

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You talking about specific products not entire overall product in comparison with their competitor. What makes you think we start diversifying weapon systems by buying from different store. Just look at India the country been burned by the Russian too many time by supplying it faulty, shoddy weapons & unfair trade deal it even started buying from the US & Israel. Ask the Indian they know more about being burned by the Russian.
> Between Russian or Chinese hardware I'll take China. More relaxed trade deal, ToT negotiable & cheaper.



Ok then, go shoot couple of shots on your brand new Chinese rifle or drive your new tank or aircraft, then prepare to purchase a second time.



z3ta311 said:


> only a few words for you: stop m*sturbate please. we have T90 and T72M1M?
> what a joke. and you said that they will publish the T90 when the armatas come? where did ya get that from?? comrade commisar???????? i'm dead laughing



And how did you know that we don't have T-90 MBT or T-72M1M ?


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## William Hung

Alvin Edward said:


> That's explain why this guy has so much hatred on Russia and Vietnam.



Yes, this is a Pakistani defence forum with many interesting threads about the Pakistani military. But the only thing this Zeenar guy posts since he joined PDF is to trash talk about VN and Russia. His real identity is quite clear. A 50 cent'er no doubt.

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## NarThoD

Alvin Edward said:


> You may wanna re-check how are your country's relations with Russia, it's the reason why Russia sell you "rusted Kilo subs".


lol our relations are good and they're poking us after new president inauguriaton. offering their products and stuffs. i understand Russia is the only Viet's friend after Vietnam war.


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## Carlosa

NarThoD said:


> what reashot means, why Indo is switching to Europe/west as her main arms supplier...because their economy is slowing down and they selling their arsenals along with their tech at cheap price. look at South Korea. we just buy 3 subs from them, and they willingly to give us their sub tech. and we buy 103 Leopards for only 280 million.
> 
> unlike Russia, they selling us rusted Kilo subs ...which is quite expensive to retrofitted. I suggest Viet to look west after the embargo lifted.



You are correct, but everything has to be taken on a case by case basis.

The Kilos offered to Indonesia were second hand and in bad shape, but the ones for Vietnam are brand new and are very good. There are areas where is worth it to buy Russian and other areas where is not. Its best to diversify as India does and VN is also doing some of that. Israel is a big supplier of Vietnam now and the newest ships are European.

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## z3ta311

Black Flag said:


> VietNamese brothers, do not say anything about Pakistan because of this Zeenar guy. He is just a Chinese pretending to be a Pakistani.
> 
> No real Pakistani would normally talk trash about Russia. This Zeenar guy join PDF just to talk trash about VN and Russian weapons. A 50 center no doubt.


he's a half-breed. half pakistani and half vietnamese. 
what's wrong talking trash about russia? are you a russia fanboy or something like that?


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## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> e's a half-breed. half pakistani and half vietnamese.
> what's wrong talking trash about russia? are you a russia fanboy or something like that?



I don't think that you understand the sentence "No real Pakistani would normally talk trash about Russia"


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## William Hung

z3ta311 said:


> he's a half-breed. half pakistani and half vietnamese.
> what's wrong talking trash about russia? are you a russia fanboy or something like that?



I am also a mixed breed. I'm 1/3 VietNamese, 1/3 Indian and 1/3 American. I have nothing against mixed race people. But as a mixed race guy, I can tell this Zeenar guy is not a fellow mixed breed. 

Yes I love Russia. Eventhough Russia dont love me.


----------



## Zeenar

Black Flag said:


> VietNamese brothers, do not say anything about Pakistan because of this Zeenar guy. He is just a Chinese pretending to be a Pakistani.
> 
> No real Pakistani would normally talk trash about Russia. This Zeenar guy join PDF just to talk trash about VN and Russian weapons. A 50 center no doubt.


I did not say anything about Vietnamese weapons, i just went here to suggest that they should replace Mig-21s with JF-17 then those dudes starts saying "It's junk."


----------



## z3ta311

Alvin Edward said:


> Ok then, go shoot couple of shots on your brand new Chinese rifle or drive your new tank or aircraft, then prepare to purchase a second time.
> 
> 
> 
> And how did you know that we don't have T-90 MBT or T-72M1M ?


we dont even have enough money for T54M3, but T90 and T72M1M? 
also, T72M1M = crap


----------



## Zeenar

Black Flag said:


> I am also a mixed breed. I'm 1/3 VietNamese, 1/3 Indian and 1/3 American. I have nothing against mixed race people. But as a mixed race guy, I can tell this Zeenar guy is not a fellow mixed breed.
> 
> Yes I love Russia. Eventhough Russia dont love me.


You're Indian and you know how a Pakistani thinks, GGWP.

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## z3ta311

Alvin Edward said:


> I don't think that you understand the sentence "No real Pakistani would normally talk trash about Russia"


oops, my bad


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

NarThoD said:


> lol our relations are good and they're poking us after new president inauguriaton. offering their products and stuffs. i understand Russia is the only Viet's friend after Vietnam war.



They only start selling us because of the sanction. Just like India we're going to have the sore end of the bargain if we follow through.


----------



## NarThoD

Carlosa said:


> You are correct, but everything has to be taken on a case by case basis.
> 
> The Kilos offered to Indonesia were second hand and in bad shape, but the ones for Vietnam are brand new and are very good. There are areas where is worth it to buy Russian and other areas where is not. Its best to diversify as India does and VN is also doing some of that. Israel is a big supplier of Vietnam now and the newest ships are European.



Indonesia is trying to not too reliant to other nation in terms of defense. every new toys we bought should include technology transfer so we not just "buy and play" 

If Viet wants to survive an arms race, against a giant then you should self-reliant. just an opinion


----------



## Alvin Edward

Zeenar said:


> I did not say anything about Vietnamese weapons, i just went here to suggest that they should replace Mig-21s with JF-17 then those dudes starts saying "It's junk."



Why replace Mig-21 with JF-17 which we can replace with Su-30MK2 or developing PAK-FA or even ATD-X ?



NarThoD said:


> Indonesia is trying to not too reliant to other nation in terms of defense. every new toys we bought should include technology transfer so we not just "buy and play"
> 
> If Viet wants to survive an arms race, against a giant then you should self-reliant. just an opinion



We already started, begin with small firearms and recently self-producing S-300


----------



## Carlosa

NarThoD said:


> Alvin Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> The date are unknown, but it will when the new Russian Shipyard capable of building Submarines and even Aircraft Carriers are completed in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alvin, the Russian Shipyard capable of building Submarines and even Aircraft Carriers that you mentioned, is that the so called "Russian maintenance shipyard" to be build in Cam Ranh bay?
Click to expand...


----------



## Zeenar

Alvin Edward said:


> Why replace Mig-21 with JF-17 which we can replace with Su-30MK2 or developing PAK-FA or even ATD-X ?


Wtf? You want to replace Light fighters with heavy ones?

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## William Hung

Zeenar said:


> You're Indian and you know how a Pakistani thinks, GGWP.



You is only 1/3 correct there, you forgot my other 2/3. Have we met before in a dota match? 

I'm afraid this z3ta311 guy is also a 50 cent'er.

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## Alvin Edward

Carlosa said:


> Alvin, the Russian Shipyard capable of building Submarines and even Aircraft Carriers that you mentioned, is that the so called "Russian maintenance shipyard" to be build in Cam Ranh bay?



In the briefing, yes.



Zeenar said:


> Wtf? You want to replace Light fighters with heavy ones?



Mig-21 are considered Medium Fighters, not Light. And with China strength growing everyday, Light won't be enough against China's overwhelming Air Force.


----------



## z3ta311

Alvin Edward said:


> Why replace Mig-21 with JF-17 which we can replace with Su-30MK2 or developing PAK-FA or even ATD-X ?


do you even "light fighters", bro?
JF-17s are nuts. 
also, to the "black flag" guy: 1/3 breed? something smell fishy here


----------



## Zeenar

Black Flag said:


> You is only 1/3 correct there, you forgot my other 2/3. Have we met before in a dota match?
> 
> I'm afraid this z3ta311 guy is also a 50 cent'er.


Can you prove that you're 1/3 Vietnamese?


----------



## z3ta311

Black Flag said:


> You is only 1/3 correct there, you forgot my other 2/3. Have we met before in a dota match?
> 
> I'm afraid this z3ta311 guy is also a 50 cent'er.


i'm a full vietnamese. 
dont judge someone at a glance, please.


----------



## Zeenar

Black Flag said:


> You is only 1/3 correct there, you forgot my other 2/3. Have we met before in a dota match?
> 
> I'm afraid this z3ta311 guy is also a 50 cent'er.


Hating Russia doesn't make you fully Vietnamese? That's the first time i heard about this shit


----------



## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> do you even "light fighters", bro?
> JF-17s are nuts.
> also, to the "black flag" guy: 1/3 breed? something smell fishy here



No I don't "light fighters", bro.
Be realistic, Light Fighters only suitable for harsh terrain such as mountain, not for frontal battle.


----------



## Carlosa

NarThoD said:


> Alvin Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> The date are unknown, but it will when the new Russian Shipyard capable of building Submarines and even Aircraft Carriers are completed in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alvin, the Russian Shipyard capable of building Submarines and even Aircraft Carriers that you mentioned, is that the so called "Russian maintenance shipyard" to be build in Cam Ranh bay?
Click to expand...




NarThoD said:


> Indonesia is trying to not too reliant to other nation in terms of defense. every new toys we bought should include technology transfer so we not just "buy and play"
> 
> If Viet wants to survive an arms race, against a giant then you should self-reliant. just an opinion



I totally agree with you and I feel VN should it have done a lot more when it comes to self production.
That being said, Russia is very stingy when it comes to tech transfer, but VN is slowly opening up to others and getting better in that area.


----------



## Nike

come on, any updated news or some educated chit-chat? i have seen more than five pages in this thread has been spent for bullshit craps and members bashing each other

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## z3ta311

Alvin Edward said:


> No I don't "light fighters", bro.
> Be realistic, Light Fighters only suitable for harsh terrain such as mountain, not for frontal battle.


----------



## William Hung

Zeenar said:


> Can you prove that you're 1/3 Vietnamese?



Yes, everytime I look in the mirror, I am clearly 1/3 VietNamese (p. s. the upper 1/3). I can also write Việt Nam. Notice those vietnamese marks on the word Việt. 



z3ta311 said:


> do you even "light fighters", bro?
> JF-17s are nuts.
> also, to the "black flag" guy: 1/3 breed? something smell fishy here



Yes 1/3 breed. 

What do you mean JF-17s are nuts? there's more to it than just nuts and bolts. JF-17s are just as good Mig-21 but more modern.


----------



## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I am also a mixed breed. I'm 1/3 VietNamese, 1/3 Indian and 1/3 American. I have nothing against mixed race people. But as a mixed race guy, I can tell this Zeenar guy is not a fellow mixed breed.
> 
> Yes I love Russia. Eventhough Russia dont love me.



Aleluya!! Black flag has finally revealed his identity! What a day! Bravo, Bravo! 



madokafc said:


> come on, any updated news or some educated chit-chat? i have seen more than five pages in this thread has been spent for bullshit craps and members bashing each other



Sounds like a normal day in PDF, doesn't it?
At least we are having fun today, it was getting too boring. And all started when I said that the JF-17 was a piece of junk, I should do that more often. Actually, have nothing against the JF-17, remains to be seen how good it is, but love to bash chinese things anyway.

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## z3ta311

Black Flag said:


> Yes, everytime I look in the mirror, I am clearly 1/3 VietNamese (p. s. the upper 1/3). I can also write Việt Nam. Notice those vietnamese marks on the word Việt.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes 1/3 breed.
> 
> What do you mean JF-17s are nuts? there's more to it than just nuts and bolts. JF-17s are just as good Mig-21 but more modern.


JF 17 block 1 = F-16 Block 15/20/32/40/50
JF 17 block 2 = F-16 block 52/60
your move


----------



## Zeenar

Y


Carlosa said:


> Aleluya!! Black flag has finally revealed his identity! What a day! Bravo, Bravo!
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a normal day in PDF, doesn't it?
> At least we are having fun today, it was getting too boring. And all started when I said that the JF-17 was a piece of junk, I should do that more often. Actually, have nothing against the JF-17, remains to be seen how good it is, but love to bash chinese things anyway.


You didn't bash anyone, you only gave us false information


----------



## William Hung

madokafc said:


> come on, any updated news or some educated chit-chat? i have seen more than five pages in this thread has been spent for bullshit craps and members bashing each other



Wait just a little more when PM Nguyễn Tấn Dũng signs the new defence pact with India. Indian brothers said sales of new Indian missile corvettes and missiles are included in that pact.

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## Carlosa

z3ta311 said:


> JF 17 block 1 = F-16 Block 15/20/32/40/50
> JF 17 block 2 = F-16 block 52/60
> your move



Only in your dreams amigo, the JF-17 is way inferior to the F-16 in many areas. Its ok as a low cost plane, but no matter how many AESA radars, etc, you put into it, there are many specs of the airframe that are not up to the F-16.



Black Flag said:


> Wait just a little more when PM Nguyễn Tấn Dũng signs the new defence pact with India. Indian brothers said sales of new Indian missile corvettes and missiles are included in that pact.



Baby Brahmos is coming home to Vietnam soon !!!!!

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## William Hung

z3ta311 said:


> JF 17 block 1 = F-16 Block 15/20/32/40/50
> JF 17 block 2 = F-16 block 52/60
> your move



I move to the left, reveal my Magic Swan Swanoth monster with 9000 attack points against your Flying Warkard. 

Your move.


----------



## z3ta311

Carlosa said:


> Only in your dreams amigo, the JF-17 is way inferior to the F-16 in many areas. Its ok as a low cost plane, but no matter how many AESA radars, etc, you put into it, there many specs of the airframe that are not up to the F-16.


>mfw





and yeah, "suck" airframe

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## Carlosa

z3ta311 said:


> >mfw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and yeah, "suck" airframe



Why don't you talk about payload for a change?

All chinese things look good on paper, but on the battlefield, that's another story.


----------



## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> JF 17 block 1 = F-16 Block 15/20/32/40/50
> JF 17 block 2 = F-16 block 52/60
> your move



You may wanna try JF-21 with Mig-30


----------



## z3ta311

Carlosa said:


> Why don't you talk about payload for a change?
> 
> All chinese things look good on paper, but on the battlefield, that's another story.


neither russian stuff. 
apply cold water to the burned area


Alvin Edward said:


> You may wanna try JF-21 with Mig-30


>still in developement
>mfw


----------



## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> Why don't you talk about payload for a change?
> 
> All chinese things look good on paper, but on the battlefield, that's another story.


That's more like Russian things, bro.








Modern T-72s in Chechen war.


----------



## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> >still in developement
> >mfw



Re-check Wiki, bro. Mig-30, not Mig-35.



Zeenar said:


> That's more like Russian things, bro.



Accidents happens from time to time, the important thing is how it will perform when in battle.

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## Carlosa

Zeenar said:


> That's more like Russian things, bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modern T-72s in Chechen war.



What is that supposed to mean? Were those tanks destroyed by chinese weapons?
Do chinese tanks look better when they are destroyed?

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## z3ta311

Carlosa said:


> What is that supposed to mean? Were those tanks destroyed by chinese weapons?
> Do chinese tanks look better when they are destroyed?
> 
> 
> Carlosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you talk about payload for a change?
> 
> All chinese things look good on paper, but on the battlefield, that's another story.
Click to expand...




Alvin Edward said:


> Re-check Wiki, bro. Mig-30, not Mig-35.
> 
> 
> 
> Accidents happens from time to time, the important thing is how it will perform when in battle.


wtf is JF-21? 
J21 you mean?

also, 
>accidents
>lost 2/3 of the tanks
>mfw


----------



## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> wtf is JF-21?
> J21 you mean?



Joint Fighter 21, I think. The only JF aircraft I know is JF-17 developed by the Pakistani and Chinese.


----------



## z3ta311

Alvin Edward said:


> Joint Fighter 21, I think. The only JF aircraft I know is JF-17 developed by the Pakistani and Chinese.


AFAIK, there's only JF-17. no cookie for you


----------



## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> >accidents
> >lost 2/3 of the tanks
> >mfw



The crew have poor performance, not the tank itself. Imagine a state-of-the-art tank (at that time), with superior firepower facing AT weapons at the same time. No tanks can survive that, not even M1A2 or the Leopard 2.



z3ta311 said:


> AFAIK, there's only JF-17. no cookie for you



You failed to understand the meaning of "I think" in my sentence.


----------



## William Hung

z3ta311 said:


> wtf is JF-21?
> J21 you mean?
> 
> also,
> >accidents
> >lost 2/3 of the tanks
> >mfw



For a VietNamese, how come you talk alot about chinese weapons? usually, real VietNamese people dont care about Chinese weapons.

And why did you just abandon our card game?


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Surely, in my non expert view of things, I would estimate that if VN can have a military budget of about 10% of China, that would be sufficient to fend them off. That would be around 14-15 billion dollars. VN is at almost 8 and increasing fast, I think it is a realistic goal. What do you think?.


I think we can expect this figure in 2020. If tomorrow Vietnam successfully stops weak management and red tape, GDP per capita could reach $7,500, according to USAID.
Vietnam’s per capita income should have crossed $7,000: USAID economist | Business | Thanh Nien Daily

that shows how these two factors alone hinder our development. I believe the government knows the problems. It has moved forward some reforms in state as well as private sectors. Two years ago, the current government itself has approved a plan how to bring the capital Hanoi GDP per capita to $7,500 in year 2020, and $17,500 in 2030. Though I believe we can more. We have discovered a series of oil and gas wells recently in the south china sea. That alone brings our GDP in a higher level in the years to come.
Hanoi aims for 17,000 USD per capita GDP -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)

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## Zeenar

Black Flag said:


> For a VietNamese, how come you talk alot about chinese weapons? usually, real VietNamese people dont care about Chinese weapons.
> 
> And why did you just abandon our card game?


Stop the stereotyping.


----------



## z3ta311

Alvin Edward said:


> The crew have poor performance, not the tank itself. Imagine a state-of-the-art tank (at that time), with superior firepower facing AT weapons at the same time. No tanks can survive that, not even M1A2 or the Leopard 2.
> 
> 
> 
> You failed to understand the meaning of "I think" in my sentence.


a challenger 2 can survive ~70 RPG-7s 


Black Flag said:


> For a VietNamese, how come you talk alot about chinese weapons? usually, real VietNamese people dont care about Chinese weapons.
> 
> And why did you just abandon our card game?


cause i'd like to bash any weapons from any country
also, "MOST" vnmese dont care about it, because they think that chinese stuff are pile of crap


----------



## Alvin Edward

Black Flag said:


> For a VietNamese, how come you talk alot about chinese weapons? usually, real VietNamese people dont care about Chinese weapons.
> And why did you just abandon our card game?



Because he isn't Vietnamese, that's why. Every Vietnamese knew that Chinese stuff are in very bad quality, and he keep talking about replacing MiG-21 with JF-21 which doesn't exist (according to z3ta311 here).



z3ta311 said:


> a challenger 2 can survive ~70 RPG-7s



Is the RPG-7 the only AT weapon on this Earth ?


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> As an example (for Alvin), I would also add, do you know if VN will exercise the option to build another 4 Molniya class ships under license?


as far as I know we have 4 Molniya active in service, and 6 under construction.


----------



## Carlosa

z3ta311 said:


> a challenger 2 can survive ~70 RPG-7s



Really? How about the Challenger tank in Iraq that got knocked out by a RPG-29?


----------



## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> Really? How about the Challenger tank in Iraq that got knocked out by a RPG-29?


He didn't say that it can survive 70 RPG-29s

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## Carlosa

Alvin Edward said:


> Because he isn't Vietnamese, that's why. Every Vietnamese knew that Chinese stuff are in very bad quality, and he keep talking about replacing MiG-21 with JF-21 which doesn't exist (according to z3ta311 here).



I've been feeling that this guy is a chinese mascarading as a vietnamese.



Zeenar said:


> He didn't say that it can survive 70 RPG-29s



No, it only took 1 RPG-29.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> For a VietNamese, how come you talk alot about chinese weapons? usually, real VietNamese people dont care about Chinese weapons.
> 
> And why did you just abandon our *card game*?


no, long gone is the time when Vietnam acquired weapons from China. what card game?


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> as far as I know we have 4 Molniya active in service, and 6 under construction.



No, 4 Molniyas in service and 4 more under construction for a final total of 8 plus another option to build 4 more if VN agrees.

VN is in a program of 8 Molniya class ships. 2 built in Russia and 6 building in VN under license. Some people confused the numbers and think that is 8 building under license plus the 2 from Russia, but its just 8. If VN exercises the option, the the final number will be 12.


----------



## z3ta311

p/s: đứa nào bảo tao người tàu thì lết lên lữ 234, quân đoàn 3 tìm nhé =))
tiếp đón nồng nhiệt luôn =))
@Zeenar: kệ nó


----------



## William Hung

Zeenar said:


> Stop the stereotyping.



I only type on my computer keyboard, not on a stereo silly.



z3ta311 said:


> a challenger 2 can survive ~70 RPG-7s
> 
> cause i'd like to bash any weapons from any country
> also, "MOST" vnmese dont care about it, because they think that chinese stuff are pile of crap



That's what I mean. 120% real VietNamese dont care about Chinese weapons, but why do you persist in defending those Chinese weapons here? 

And why did you abandon our Yu-Gi-Oh card game? that was rude.

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## z3ta311

^
bullshit stereotype. i have my respect for every weapon all over the world. and i also love to bash them.
and what yu gi oh game?


----------



## Zeenar

Black Flag said:


> I only type on my computer keyboard, not on a stereo silly.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I mean. 120% real VietNamese dont care about Chinese weapons, but why do you persist in defending those Chinese weapons here?
> 
> And why did you abandon our Yu-Gi-Oh card game? that was rude.


You are totally irrevelant bro , it's best that you should join our debate.


----------



## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> p/s: đứa nào bảo tao người tàu thì lết lên lữ 234, quân đoàn 3 tìm nhé =))
> tiếp đón nồng nhiệt luôn =))
> @Zeenar: kệ nó



Ok then meet you at Osaka, Japan.




Zeenar said:


> You are totally irrevelant bro , it's best that you should join our debate.



Let's get back to the point where WE discuss about Vietnamese armory, not racism.


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No, 4 Molniyas in service and 4 more under construction for a final total of 8 plus another option to build 4 more if VN agrees.


I just recall, a vietnamese defence site mentions the number of 6 under construction.


----------



## William Hung

z3ta311 said:


> ^
> bullshit stereotype. i have my respect for every weapon all over the world. and i also love to bash them.
> and what yu gi oh game?



Respect and bashing are mutually exclusive.

I thought we were playing Yu-Gi-Oh earlier, when you asked me to make my move.



Zeenar said:


> You are totally irrevelant bro , it's best that you should join our debate.



"it's best that you should join our debate"???

I'm already am in the debate.

The debate became irrelevant when you first mentioned the JF-17. I'm just trying to make this debate relevant again. Two wrongs will make it right again.


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I just recall, a vietnamese defence site mentions the number of 6 under construction.



Correct, read my post, I added more info. 2 from Russia and 6 building (in total, including the 2 already done), total is 8 ships.


----------



## Alvin Edward

Carlosa said:


> Correct, read my post, I added more info. 2 from Russia and 6 building (in total, including the 2 already done), total is 8 ships.



And that is only available to the public, who knows that how many will be more...


----------



## z3ta311

Carlosa said:


> Correct, read my post, I added more info. 2 from Russia and 6 building, total is 8 ships.


2 of them a finished, but no armament.
back to the T72M1M, what are you trying to say?
worse than the T72 (#justexportedstuff) how come that it could be even with the T90?


Alvin Edward said:


> Ok then meet you at Osaka, Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's get back to the point where WE discuss about Vietnamese armory, not racism.


i'm talking to "someone" called me a chinese. and your reply is totally unrelated


----------



## Alvin Edward

z3ta311 said:


> i'm talking to "someone" called me a chinese. and your reply is totally unrelated



You should have to be more specific, and yes I did call you a Chinese. Why did I have to come all the way to your base just to verify you as a Vietnamese ? You should have said so or set your home location. You failed badly, friend.


----------



## William Hung

z3ta311 said:


> p/s: đứa nào bảo tao người tàu thì lết lên lữ 234, quân đoàn 3 tìm nhé =))
> tiếp đón nồng nhiệt luôn =))
> @Zeenar: kệ nó



OK người tàu. 



Carlosa said:


> Correct, read my post, I added more info. 2 from Russia and 6 building (in total, including the 2 already done), total is 8 ships.



Molniya are boring, they dont have any space to expand for a weapons suite upgrade. The upcoming Indians missile corvettes are more interesting and potent. They can range from 75m to 100m in length, and can be armed with Barak SAMs and torpedoes on the expanded version.

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## z3ta311

i DID set vietnam as my home location, and the "black flag" guy told that i'm a chinese, then it's not my fault to stir shit up. k?


----------



## Carlosa

Of the program of 6 Molniyas building under license:
2 already finished and are operational
2 are finished and are about to start sea trials
2 are closing and will start sea trials in about 6 months.

This is all I know. Actually, I would hope for more, but actually, better than that, I would like VN to do a follow on domestic design that has full stealth, air defense missiles of the type Lock-on after launch and the Packet-E anti torpedo system. That would be much better than the Molniyas.


----------



## Phuc Dinh

Now, I don't really care about the content of this argument
But really? I don't think a real Military Advisor would say anything arrogant and ignorant as: All Chinese stuff are bad, and such
Most of the military guys that I know of who are or used to be in the VPA said that they would never underestimate Chinese weapon. 

And really, could you people stop using things like: Chinese can't talk about Vietnam stuff in here? That does not consolidate your argument any better than throwing swear words around like 13 year-old high on sugar and CoD

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## Alvin Edward

Carlosa said:


> Of the program of 6 Molniyas building under license:
> 2 already finished and are operational
> 2 are finished and are about to start sea trials
> 2 are closing and will start sea trials in about 6 months.
> This is all I know. Actually, I would hope for more, but actually, better than that, I would like VN to do a follow on domestic design that has full stealth, air defense missiles of the type Lock-on after launch and the Packet-E anti torpedo system. That would be much better than the Molniyas.



Vietnam DOD already have plan for this, still in developing phase.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> OK người tàu.
> 
> 
> 
> Molniya are boring, they dont have any space to expand for a weapons suite upgrade. The upcoming Indians missile corvettes are more interesting and potent. They can range from 75m to 1000 in length, and can be armed with Barak SAMs and torpedoes on the expanded version.



I agree with you, but don't forget that the Molniyas pack a very good antiship punch with those 16 KH-35's and are fast. But they are too vulnerable.



Alvin Edward said:


> Vietnam DOD already have plan for this, still in developing phase.



You made my day bro !!!!!!


----------



## Alvin Edward

Phuc Dinh said:


> Now, I don't really care about the content of this argument
> But really? I don't think a real Military Advisor would say anything arrogant and ignorant as: All Chinese stuff are bad, and such
> Most of the military guys that I know of who are or used to be in the VPA said that they would never underestimate Chinese weapon.
> 
> And really, could you people stop using things like: Chinese can't talk about Vietnam stuff in here? That does not consolidate your argument any better than throwing swear words around like 13 year-old high on sugar and CoD



Facts that I only "talking" bad about Chinese equipment because this is the Internet, my friend. Sometimes you gotta let off some steam after work. When working, even the weakest Chinese weapon could change the entire war, so I'm only like this when arguing on the internet.

I didn't said anything about can't talk about Chinese weapons here, I only said that let's get back talking about Vietnamese weapons.


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## Nike

@Carlosa mind you proof your words, about the RPG-29 knocking the Challenger? it is amusing me so much


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I agree with you, but don't forget that the Molniyas pack a very good antiship punch with those 16 KH-35's and are fast. But they are too vulnerable.
> 
> 
> 
> You made my day bro !!!!!!



But that means it's only a missile carrier. The Indian corvettes are cheap, and if armed with Barak SAMs (with air search radars) and Sonar, can perform a real patrol on its own. The molniya is blind under the water or over the air.


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## z3ta311

Phuc Dinh said:


> Now, I don't really care about the content of this argument
> But really? I don't think a real Military Advisor would say anything arrogant and ignorant as: All Chinese stuff are bad, and such
> Most of the military guys that I know of who are or used to be in the VPA said that they would never underestimate Chinese weapon.
> 
> And really, could you people stop using things like: Chinese can't talk about Vietnam stuff in here? That does not consolidate your argument any better than throwing swear words around like 13 year-old high on sugar and CoD


made my day


madokafc said:


> @Carlosa mind you proof your words, about the RPG-29 knocking the Challenger? it is amusing me so much


RPG 29 disable the chally 2. yes. only disable the vehicle, the crew are safe, no further damage


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## Nike

z3ta311 said:


> made my day
> 
> RPG 29 disable the chally 2. yes. only disable the vehicle, the crew are safe, no further damage



that's why his word of knocking off is amusing me so much, because after some repairs the vehicles back to his daily routine

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> OK người tàu.
> 
> 
> 
> Molniya are boring, they dont have any space to expand for a weapons suite upgrade. The upcoming Indians missile corvettes are more interesting and potent. They can range from 75m to 100m in length, and can be armed with Barak SAMs and torpedoes on the expanded version.



Actually, Barack sam is not that good an option, only 10-12 km range and requires a fire control radar which is not good for an small ship. Much better than that would be missiles that do lock-on after launch, they use the search radar of the ship to give the target info to the missile as well as mid course updates if needed. After that, they go on their own and when they are near the target they lock on with their built in seeker. Its a fire and forget type of system. A system like that can fire at multiple targets at the same time.

Systems of that type are Mica, Spyder, Umkhonto, etc. A missile system like that is also cheaper than a system that requires fire control radar and can hit more targets.

Now, if you tell me Barack 8, that's another story, that's my favorite, a true lock-on after launch system and 70 km range.



z3ta311 said:


> made my day
> 
> RPG 29 disable the chally 2. yes. only disable the vehicle, the crew are safe, no further damage



Yes, I know, but the fact that it disabled the tank is already good enough.


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## z3ta311

Carlosa said:


> Yes, I know, but the fact that it disabled the tank is already good enough.





madokafc said:


> that's why his word of knocking off is amusing me so much, because after some repairs the vehicles back to his daily routine


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> that's why his word of knocking off is amusing me so much, because after some repairs the vehicles back to his daily routine



Its no easy to repair a tank in the middle of a battle, don't you think? I would say that the tank is a seating duck. 

Disabled is not compatible with knocked off in your English definition?


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Its no easy to repair a tank in the middle of a battle, don't you think? I would say that the tank is a seating duck.
> 
> *Disabled is not compatible with knocked off in your English definition?*



No easy is not same with can't be done right?

for the bold part
yes it is, every person with proficient in english in this world will backing me


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> No easy is not same with can't be done right?
> 
> for the bold part
> yes it is, every person with proficient in english in this world will backing me



Well, lets see then, when a boxer is knocked out, because he felled, he didn't die, went down and was able to get up again, how do you define that?

What is knocked off in your definition, can you explain? I believe it means it was hit and its down (the tank could not move, it was disabled).
Knock means hit, touch, right? Knocked off, was hit and is down, its out of service.
What does it mean in your definition, can you explain?


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Molniya are boring, they dont have any space to expand for a weapons suite upgrade. The upcoming Indians missile corvettes are more interesting and potent. They can range from 75m to 100m in length, and can be armed with Barak SAMs and torpedoes on the expanded version.


you are right. India has many potent warships including frigate and destroyer programs. I hope Vietnam/India will close some deals at upcoming visit.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you are right. India has many potent warships including frigate and destroyer programs. I hope Vietnam/India will close some deals at upcoming visit.



Indian Talwar and Kamorta frigates would be good for Vietnam.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Actually, Barack sam is not that good an option, only 10-12 km range and requires a fire control radar which is not good for an small ship. Much better than that would be missiles that do lock-on after launch, they use the search radar of the ship to give the target info to the missile as well as mid course updates if needed. After that, they go on their own and when they are near the target they lock on with their built in seeker. Its a fire and forget type of system. A system like that can fire at multiple targets at the same time.
> 
> Systems of that type are Mica, Spyder, Umkhonto, etc. A missile system like that is also cheaper than a system that requires fire control radar and can hit more targets.
> 
> Now, if you tell me Barack 8, that's another story, that's my favorite, a true lock-on after launch system and 70 km range.



Actually, for a small corvette, Barak-1 would be the best option since they are super compact. Barak-8 and other longer range SAMs are more potent but you can't fit many of them on a small ship. How many Barak-8 or even MICA can you fit on a corvette under 1.5t? with a Barak-1 system, you can easily fit at least 16 SAMs, or more. I'd rather have +16 less potent SAMs than only 8 more potent SAMs.

Barak-1 is a short range system. For a short range system, you dont need a homing radar on the missiles, it will only make the missiles heavier and bigger. For ~10km range, on-ship FC radar is good enough. In fact, using air-search radar and FC radar on board the ship is better since they will be bigger and more powerful than the tiny ones on those missiles with homing radar. Homing radars are only needed for long range SAMs.

Barak-1 FC radar can engage multi-targets.

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## Viet

z3ta311 said:


> i DID set vietnam as my home location, and the "black flag" guy told that i'm a chinese, then it's not my fault to stir shit up. k?


come on bro, I believe you are vietnamese. let us all go back to the topic.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> you are right. India has many potent warships including frigate and destroyer programs. I hope Vietnam/India will close some deals at upcoming visit.



Stop dreaming about frigates and destroyers, you can't afford them. Indian Talwar frigates cost over $500 million each. A 1.5t corvette armed with barak SAMs and sonar is good enough for you.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Of the program of 6 Molniyas building under license:
> 2 already finished and are operational
> 2 are finished and are about to start sea trials
> 2 are closing and will start sea trials in about 6 months.
> 
> This is all I know. Actually, I would hope for more, but actually, better than that, I would like VN to do a follow on domestic design that has full stealth, air defense missiles of the type Lock-on after launch and the Packet-E anti torpedo system. That would be much better than the Molniyas.


.
this source says 6 warships are under construction, and will be complete at 2017. that means by then (2017), we will have 10 (4 already in service). that fits to one other site claim we will make at least a dozen of this kind of warship.

Việt Nam sắp đóng hoàn thành sáu tàu tên lửa Molniya

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Actually, for a small corvette, Barak-1 would be the best option since they are super compact. Barak-8 and other longer range SAMs are more potent but you can't fit many of them on a small ship. How many Barak-8 or even MICA can you fit on a corvette under 1.5t? with a Barak-1 system, you can easily fit at least 16 SAMs, or more. I'd rather have +16 less potent SAMs than only 8 more potent SAMs.
> 
> Barak-1 is a short range system. For a short range system, you dont need a homing radar on the missiles, it will only make the missiles heavier and bigger. For ~10km range, on-ship FC radar is good enough. In fact, using air-search radar and FC radar on board the ship is better since they will be bigger and more powerful than the tiny ones on those missiles with homing radar. Homing radars are only needed for long range SAMs.
> 
> Barak-1 FC radar can engage multi-targets.



I believe Barack 1 requires fire control radar, I was reading about that yesterday.
But if we are talking size, Mica, etc are designed to be installed in ships as small as 500 tons.
They don't have much equipment to install in the ship other than the VLS system itself. They are very space efficient systems and very light. Barack 1 has much more equipment to install in the ship and its not as easy to fit in a small ship (not as easy as Mica, etc at least). They can also handle saturation attacks better since its a fire and forget system. I was just comparing Barack 1 to those systems yesterday, these are my conclusions, at least that's my take.

Barck 8 would be a great system to retrofit in the Gepard frigates. By the way, when I was comparing those systems to fit into the Molniya class, I did not mean to include Barak 8 there, that one is definitely for bigger ships, I would say 1000 tons and up. That missile is 4.5 meters long. By the way, Barack 1 has much more equipment to install under deck than Barack 8, its not as compact as you think. The missile itself it is, but not the other equipment under deck.



Viet said:


> .
> this source says 6 warships are under construction, and will be complete at 2017. that means by then (2017), we will have 10 (4 already in service). that fits to one other site claim we will make at least a dozen of this kind of warship.
> 
> Việt Nam sắp đóng hoàn thành sáu tàu tên lửa Molniya



The dozen comes from the current program of 8 plus the option for an extra 4.
When they say 6 under construction, I think they mean the total program of building 6 under license.
I used to have these doubts also and a Navy officer clarified things for me.

Actually, I wish you would be right because that means more ships, but according to the navy people is just 8 total now.

It could also be possible that the navy already decided to do the option for the other 4 and now they are already working on a program of 12; in that case we would be talking about the same thing.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I believe Barack 1 requires fire control radar, I was reading about that yesterday.



Yes they do, but their FC radar can engage multiple targets. And if you are not happy with their current radar, I'm pretty sure the Israeli can upgrade the radar, for a price.



> But if we are talking size, Mica, etc are designed to be installed in ships as small as 500 tons.
> They don't have much equipment to install in the ship other than the VLS system itself. They are very space efficient systems and very light. Barack 1 has much more equipment to install in the ship and its not as easy to fit in a small ship (not as easy as Mica, etc at least).



The Barak-1 system is more compact. How many MICA SAMs can fitted on a 1.5t corvette? while 24 barak-1 SAMs can be easily fitted on a ship less than 1ton. The only thing a barak-1 system has extra is the FC radar on top the ship, but that radar is not much bigger than the ones for the AK630.



> They can also handle saturation attacks better since its a fire and forget system. I was just comparing Barack 1 to those systems yesterday, these are my conclusions, at least that's my take.
> 
> Barck 8 would be a great system to retrofit in the Gepard frigates.



Barak-1 can also handles multiple targets. Which one performs better I dont know. Perhaps the MICA is better but I'd rather have 24 SAMs than just 12, especially when you'll likely to be against more than 1 enemy ships with 8 AshM each.[/quote][/quote]


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## Soryu

Hơ hơ, tự nhiên có 2 cái nick mới: 1 cái treo cờ Pak, 1 anh nữa thì khoe là đang tại ngũ ở cái lữ abc nào đó ... ai chui vào đây diễn trò thế !? 

P/S: sorry, I want to speak Vietnamese with my fellow ...


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## Soryu

NarThoD said:


> lol our relations are good and they're poking us after new president inauguriaton. offering their products and stuffs. i understand Russia is the only Viet's friend after Vietnam war.


your "understand" is very low ...


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yes they do, but their FC radar can engage multiple targets. And if you are not happy with their current radar, I'm pretty sure the Israeli can upgrade the radar, for a price.
> 
> 
> 
> The Barak-1 system is more compact. How many MICA SAMs can fitted on a 1.5t corvette? while 24 barak-1 SAMs can be easily fitted on a ship less than 1ton. The only thing a barak-1 system has extra is the FC radar on top the ship, but that radar is not much bigger than the ones for the AK630.
> 
> 
> 
> Barak-1 can also handles multiple targets. Which one performs better I dont know. Perhaps the MICA is better but I'd rather have 24 SAMs than just 12, especially when you'll likely to be against more than 1 enemy ships with 8 AshM each.


[/quote][/quote]

Well, I like the Mica type of system better myself and you like the Barack 1 better, that's ok. The key point is that most of the Vietnamese naval ships don't have a proper air defense and any of these systems would be an improvement. I'll explain why I say this:

There are 3 modern ships in the Vietnamese Navy, Gepard, Sigma and Molniya.

The Sigma has the Mica, that's a good system, it can handle supersonic antiship missiles quite well. That will workout fine. The only think that I don't like is the cost of the missile at $3 million, way too expensive, but the system is good.

The Gepard relies on the Palma system and most people think that's good enough, but they are wrong. Why I say this?
A) The Palma Sosna-R missiles are laser guided and that means that in the presence of bad weather, fog, rain, etc, the laser beam can be interrupted. That's why the Russian Navy doesn't like it.
B) Here is the thing that most people don't know, it took me some digging up to find it. The Sosna-R can only intercept targets flying up to Mach 1.5 and that leaves a lot of chinese missiles out of the equation, that's bad news, very bad news.
C) This is more minor, but the Palma only has a range of 8 km.

The Molniya as already discussed is in bad shape for air defense having only the Igla system, which is just a MANPACK system.

The Molniya has an space issue in order to retrofit a better system, but the Gepard can do it. One of the options in the Gepard is to order it with the Shitil system, in which case it gets installed where the Palma system is now located. That would be the location to install a new system and the Palma can be moved to the back to replace one of the AK-630's. I hope VN will eventually do this.


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## Carlosa

On October 24, The Coast Guard Command signed a contract with Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company under the General Department of Defence Industry for building 4 more high-speed patrol boats TT-400 (the number 6,7,8,9 ).

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Well, I like the Mica type of system better myself and you like the Barack 1 better, that's ok.



Barak-1 is most likely less potent than more modern SAM systems, including the MICA VL. But Barak-1 system is really compact and cheaper which, to me, makes a better option for smaller <1.4ton ships. If you dont believe me, check out the old Israeli Sa'ar corvettes. Some of them are under 600ton but are armed with 64 Barak-1 SAMs. If the system is equipped with a more modern radar like the EL/M-2258, they are still very powerful.

I doubt a 2000t Sigma has enough space for 24 MICA SAMs. VN, Indonesia and Malaysia's new >2000ton to frigates will only be fitted with 12 MICA SAMs. They wont survive against 2 enemy ships armed with 8x AshM each.




> The key point is that most of the Vietnamese naval ships don't have a proper air defense and any of these systems would be an improvement. I'll explain why I say this:
> 
> There are 3 modern ships in the Vietnamese Navy, Gepard, Sigma and Molniya.
> 
> The Sigma has the Mica, that's a good system, it can handle supersonic antiship missiles quite well. That will workout fine. The only think that I don't like is the cost of the missile at $3 million, way too expensive, but the system is good.
> 
> The Gepard relies on the Palma system and most people think that's good enough, but they are wrong. Why I say this?
> A) The Palma Sosna-R missiles are laser guided and that means that in the presence of bad weather, fog, rain, etc, the laser beam can be interrupted. That's why the Russian Navy doesn't like it.
> B) Here is the thing that most people don't know, it took me some digging up to find it. The Sosna-R can only intercept targets flying up to Mach 1.5 and that leaves a lot of chinese missiles out of the equation, that's bad news, very bad news.
> C) This is more minor, but the Palma only has a range of 8 km.



For a ship the size of the Gepard, it's better to go longer range like Barak-8. Shtil has shorter range. Also, the Shtil system is not so compact and probably only one VL module with 12 SAMs can be fitted into the Gepard. I dont know which system is cheaper though.

I would say the Barak-8 is also a better system for the Sigma.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Barak-1 is most likely less potent than more modern SAM systems, including the MICA VL. But Barak-1 system is really compact and cheaper which, to me, makes a better option for smaller <1.4ton ships. If you dont believe me, check out the old Israeli Sa'ar corvettes. Some of them are under 600ton but are armed with 64 Barak-1 SAMs. If the system is equipped with a more modern radar like the EL/M-2258, they are still very powerful.
> 
> I doubt a 2000t Sigma has enough space for 24 MICA SAMs. VN, Indonesia and Malaysia's new >2000ton to frigates will only be fitted with 12 MICA SAMs. They wont survive against 2 enemy ships armed with 8x AshM each.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For a ship the size of the Gepard, it's better to go longer range like Barak-8. Shtil has shorter range. Also, the Shtil system is not so compact and probably only one VL module with 12 SAMs can be fitted into the Gepard. I dont know which system is cheaper though.
> 
> I would say the Barak-8 is also a better system for the Sigma.



Regarding the Gepard (or Sigma), I also feel the Barak 8 its the best system overall. As I said before, Barak 8 its my favorite SAM. I mentioned the Shitl only because that's the location where to make the upgrade with a new SAM in the existing Gepards (and maybe in the 2 new ones also). Personally, I don't like the Shitl much, too bulky and the minimum intercept range is several times that of the Barak 8 which is only 500 meters, that's outstanding, 500 m to 70 km. It fulfills both the mission of point defense system and a medium range system. I would like to see Barak 8 in all VN ships from 1500 tons and up. And by the way, price wise is a non brainer, Barak 8 missiles are $1.2 million and MICA are $3 million.

Its intriguing to me how they fit 24 Barak 1 missiles into a small ship, I'll have to research into it.
The Barak 1 missile is 17 cm in diameter while the both the MICA and SPYDER are 16 cm in diameter, so the VLS systems of all those should be of similar space. A typical Mica system is 12 missiles, but the system can handle 16 and they can be subdivided into small 6 cells VLS systems that can be located in different locations in the ship, its quite space efficient.

A basic Barak 1 system with an 8 cell VLS is $24 million, not very cheap. But anyway, the newest SAM tech from Israel is the SPYDER for short and medium range SAM systems and since VN is going to buy the land based version of SPYDER, it would be better to used those in the ships also. Those are Mach 4 missiles, better suited to intercept fast supersonic anti ship missiles, they will use the ships radar and can handle a good number of targets at the same time. There are 2 versions of the missile operating together, one with an IR seeker and one with an active radar seeker, so 2 options, that's always better than one. SPYDER-SR (short range) has a range of 15 km and SPYDER-MR (medium range) has a range of 35 km. I think this would be a good system for small ships.

I definitely agree with you that is nice to have 24 SAM missiles as opposite to 12, etc. I think that VN ships will have to operate in a very dense missile environment where saturation attacks would be typical.

More on that 24 cell Barak later, but anyway, any of these systems would be a great improvement with respect to the present situation.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> On October 24, The Coast Guard Command signed a contract with Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company under the General Department of Defence Industry for building 4 more high-speed patrol boats TT-400 (the number 6,7,8,9 ).
> 
> View attachment 138301
> View attachment 138302
> View attachment 138303


nice, that brings the total number of gunships to 8.



Carlosa said:


> The dozen comes from the current program of 8 plus the option for an extra 4.
> When they say 6 under construction, I think they mean the total program of building 6 under license.
> I used to have these doubts also and a Navy officer clarified things for me.
> 
> Actually, I wish you would be right because that means more ships, but according to the navy people is just 8 total now.
> 
> It could also be possible that the navy already decided to do the option for the other 4 and now they are already working on a program of 12; in that case we would be talking about the same thing.


I just check the news again. you are right. in 2006 Vietnam signed $1b contract with Russia for 8 Molniya warships: 2 built by Russia, 6 by Vietnam shipyard Ba Son. some months ago, I read from a source Vietnam Navy is very satisfied with the performance of the warship and intends to have 10 more. unclear if the contract is signed yet.


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Stop dreaming about frigates and destroyers, you can't afford them. Indian Talwar frigates cost over $500 million each. A 1.5t corvette armed with barak SAMs and sonar is good enough for you.


he he he...it is not only me who dreams of destroyers. Vietnam dreams of having a blue water navy in 2030. How can we realize such dream without heavy frigates and destroyers? impossible.

we have 2 Gepard frigates now, and 4 in 2017. I believe our economy generates cash surplus enough that we can afford more frigates and begin to build up a destroyer fleet. we have to catch up with the chinese. if we lost the war against them, everything would be too late and worthless. you begin to sound like many other chinese posters here.

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## Viet

some pics of Air defence unit


























_ZSU-23-4 radar guided anti-aircraft guns_









_37mm air defense artillery_





57mm air defense artillery

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Its intriguing to me how they fit 24 Barak 1 missiles into a small ship, I'll have to research into it.
> The Barak 1 missile is 17 cm in diameter while the both the MICA and SPYDER are 16 cm in diameter, so the VLS systems of all those should be of similar space. A typical Mica system is 12 missiles, but the system can handle 16 and they can be subdivided into small 6 cells VLS systems that can be located in different locations in the ship, its quite space efficient.
> 
> A basic Barak 1 system with an 8 cell VLS is $24 million, not very cheap.
> 
> I definitely agree with you that is nice to have 24 SAM missiles as opposite to 12, etc. I think that VN ships will have to operate in a very dense missile environment where saturation attacks would be typical.



I think it's the length of the missiles that restrict how many VLS cells you can install on a ship. On a small ship, the longer missiles can only be installed along the center area of the hull where the hull depth is deepest. With shorter missiles, you're more free to install the VLS on any area of the hull.

What's the cost for a 12 cells MICA VL system?



Viet said:


> he he he...it is not only me who dreams of destroyers. Vietnam dreams of having a blue water navy in 2030. How can we realize such dream without heavy frigates and destroyers? impossible.
> 
> * you begin to sound like many other chinese posters here.*



Ask @TaiShang, he can confirm I am not a Chinese.

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## Viet

Air defence unit with S-300PMU-1

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Ask @TaiShang, he can confirm I am not a Chinese.


the stop talking like a chinese. if we followed their advice it is worthless for vietnam to have an army at all, because we have no chance against them.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I think it's the length of the missiles that restrict how many VLS cells you can install on a ship. On a small ship, the longer missiles can only be installed along the center area of the hull where the hull depth is deepest. With shorter missiles, you're more free to install the VLS on any area of the hull.
> 
> What's the cost for a 12 cells MICA VL system?.



I was thinking the same thing, there is a 1 meter difference between the Barak 1 and Mica (or Spyder).
Other than that, I don't see any other difference.

I don't know the whole cost of the Mica VL, but its probably not much other than the cost of the VLS because the VLS and the missiles is all there is, no equipment racks, consoles or anything. The VLS interfaces directly to the CMS of the ship and that's it. But the thing is, the cost is in the missiles, just the standard load of 12 missiles is $36 million already. Pretty stiff.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> nice, that brings the total number of gunships to 8.
> 
> 
> I just check the news again. you are right. in 2006 Vietnam signed $1b contract with Russia for 8 Molniya warships: 2 built by Russia, 6 by Vietnam shipyard Ba Son. some months ago, I read from a source Vietnam Navy is very satisfied with the performance of the warship and intends to have 10 more. unclear if the contract is signed yet.



All there is is the first batch of 8 and the second batch of 4 for a total of 12.

I don't believe the rumors for another 10, all that comes from a Russian official that said that VN was going to order another 10 Molniyas and had 4 Gepards on order (instead of 2). All the VN articles get the story from that. My gut feeling when I read that was that I didn't make sense, too many Molniyas and I knew the navy wants to switch to a larger corvette that is better equipped. The Molniyas have no stealth at all and they are very vulnerable.

I checked with my source in the navy and I was told that indeed it didn't make any sense. The Russial official got all the numbers confused, the 10 Molniyas are the 10 building under license in the 2 batches and the 4 Gepards are the 2 on order and the 2 on commission.

Going back to the 12 Molniyas, since your article says that there are 6 under construction and that the program ends in 2017, that makes me think that VN already approved the second batch of 4 (without announcement as usual) and they already started to work on them, otherwise 2017 makes no sense because I know that the program of 8 ends around the middle of next year, so this means that it will be 12 for sure.

Yesterday Alvin confirmed that the navy is developing the follow on to the Molniya, so that confirms everything and it makes total sense.



Viet said:


> nice, that brings the total number of gunships to 8.



No, the total number is 9, as the article says, hulls numbers 6,7,8 and 9.



Viet said:


> Air defence unit with S-300PMU-1



They are already upgraded to PMU-2 now.

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## Viet

Hanoi, October 27: meeting with Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi
besides of usual bla bla (Vietnam/China brotherhood), only one thing is remarkable: both parties have agreed to accelerate negotiations on the demarcation of waters off the Gulf of Tonkin. No word about when China will lift the travel warning against Vietnam.








India, Bodhgaya city October 27: Prime Minister Nguyen, his spouse and delegation arrived India. Let see how India leadership means serious with the committments of helping Vietnam in the dispute. the visit of immense strategic importance for both countries.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> All there is is the first batch of 8 and the second batch of 4 for a total of 12.
> 
> I don't believe the rumors for another 10, all that comes from a Russian official that said that VN was going to order another 10 Molniyas and had 4 Gepards on order (instead of 2). All the VN articles get the story from that. My gut feeling when I read that was that I didn't make sense, too many Molniyas and I knew the navy wants to switch to a larger corvette that is better equipped. The Molniyas have no stealth at all and they are very vulnerable.
> 
> I checked with my source in the navy and I was told that indeed it didn't make any sense. The Russial official got all the numbers confused, the 10 Molniyas are the 10 building under license in the 2 batches and the 4 Gepards are the 2 on order and the 2 on commission.
> 
> Going back to the 12 Molniyas, since your article says that there are 6 under construction and that the program ends in 2017, that makes me think that VN already approved the second batch of 4 (without announcement as usual) and they already started to work on them, otherwise 2017 makes no sense because I know that the program of 8 ends around the middle of next year, so this means that it will be 12 for sure.
> 
> Yesterday Alvin confirmed that the navy is developing the follow on to the Molniya, so that confirms everything and it makes total sense.


yes, it seems the navy places a big bet on small and medium vessels. when will they think of big warships? 


Carlosa said:


> No, the total number is 9, as the article says, hulls numbers 6,7,8 and 9.


do we have 4 or 5 in service? I assume 4.
UPDATE: Vietnam reveals fourth TT400TP patrol vessel - IHS Jane's 360


Carlosa said:


> They are already upgraded to PMU-2 now.


you are right.


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## Viet

Ship guns (AK series), installed on Gepard, Molyina, BPS-500, Turya, Svetlyak, TT400TP class

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> he he he...it is not only me who dreams of destroyers. Vietnam dreams of having a blue water navy in 2030. How can we realize such dream without heavy frigates and destroyers? impossible.
> 
> we have 2 Gepard frigates now, and 4 in 2017. I believe our economy generates cash surplus enough that we can afford more frigates and begin to build up a destroyer fleet. we have to catch up with the chinese. if we lost the war against them, everything would be too late and worthless. you begin to sound like many other chinese posters here.



Everything in steps bro, need to build the littoral navy before going into the blue water navy and also need to set up the surveillance and stand off targeting system as well as the C3ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) in order to properly use the blue water navy. Need to also beef up the air force further in order to provide better cover for the navy.

When all the pieces are in place and the country's GDP grow enough, then that will be the time for destroyers, etc. Patience is a virtue bro. 



Viet said:


> do we have 4 or 5 in service? I assume 4.
> UPDATE: Vietnam reveals fourth TT400TP patrol vessel - IHS Jane's 360
> .



4 in service, 1 under construction and now 4 in the new order, total is 9, that's why they gave those hull numbers.

We are talking TT-400 for the coast guard, don't confuse them with the TT-400TP for the navy.

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## Zeenar

Soryu said:


> Hơ hơ, tự nhiên có 2 cái nick mới: 1 cái treo cờ Pak, 1 anh nữa thì khoe là đang tại ngũ ở cái lữ abc nào đó ... ai chui vào đây diễn trò thế !?
> 
> P/S: sorry, I want to speak Vietnamese with my fellow ...


Người ta là nick mới nhưng có hiểu biết chứ không như ai đó chá dám mở miệng lúc đang tranh cãi rồi đợi nguội mới dám đâm chọt sau lựng 

Since we still have large numbers of M48 in reserve after the Vietnam War, we should ask Israelis to sign a contract to upgrade our M48s to Magach 5 standard if we have the money and we might as well continue to find a better modernization program for the T-54/55s too.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I was thinking the same thing, there is a 1 meter difference between the Barak 1 and Mica (or Spyder).
> Other than that, I don't see any other difference.



Look at this Saar 4.5 boat. It's only 500tons but carries 32 barak-1 SAMs (4x 8cells VLS module at the back):










Each VLS modules are tiny. Notice how they can be installed right at the edge of the stern (longer missiles cannot be this close to the edge of a small boat) :








Carlosa said:


> I don't know the whole cost of the Mica VL, but its probably not much other than the cost of the VLS because the VLS and the missiles is all there is, no equipment racks, consoles or anything. The VLS interfaces directly to the CMS of the ship and that's it. But the thing is, the cost is in the missiles, just the standard load of 12 missiles is $36 million already. Pretty stiff.



$3 million for 1 MICA missile really? the Aster 15 sold to the UK and Italian was around $1.2 million each. I saw a documentary on the ESSM and it said they cost around $1mil as well. You might as well wait for the newer MBDA Sea Ceptor (CAMM). They supposedly have similar performances to the Aster 15 but designed to be smaller and cheaper.

India just sealed a contract to buy +200 barak-1 missiles at $550,000 each. 

Remember for any SAM system, you have to buy plenty of missiles to stock up. So if the VPA buys 30 MICAs, that would cost about $90million already.  30 barak-1 would only cost around $17million. That's why I said for a small corvette under 1.5ton which probably cost less than $150million, I would prefer a cheaper system like the Barak-1.

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## Carlosa

Zeenar said:


> Người ta là nick mới nhưng có hiểu biết chứ không như ai đó chá dám mở miệng lúc đang tranh cãi rồi đợi nguội mới dám đâm chọt sau lựng
> 
> Since we still have large numbers of M48 in reserve after the Vietnam War, we should ask Israelis to sign a contract to upgrade our M48s to Magach 6/7 standard if we have the money and we might as well continue to find a better modernization program for the T-54/55s too.



Magach 6/7 standard is only for the M-60 tank. Magach 5 would be the one for the M-48.

The T-54/55 can still be put to good use, but in my opinion, the Achilles heel of the Israeli T-55M3 upgrade program for those tanks is that it uses the old british L-7 gun of 105 mm. I feel it needs to be a 125 mm gun; there are other upgrades that use the 125 mm in the T-54/55.



Black Flag said:


> Look at this Saar 4.5 boat. It's only 500tons but carries 32 barak-1 SAMs (4x 8cells VLS module at the back):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Each VLS modules are tiny. Notice how they can be installed right at the edge of the stern (longer missiles cannot be this close to the edge of a small boat) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $3 million for 1 MICA missile really? the Aster 15 sold to the UK and Italian was around $1.2 million each. I saw a documentary on the ESSM and it said they cost around $1mil as well. You might as well wait for the newer MBDA Sea Ceptor (CAMM). They supposedly have similar performances to the Aster 15 but designed to be smaller and cheaper.
> 
> India just sealed a contract to buy +200 barak-1 missiles at $550,000 each.
> 
> Remember for any SAM system, you have to buy plenty of missiles to stock up. So if the VPA buys 30 MICAs, that would cost about $90million already.  30 barak-1 would only cost around $17million. That's why I said for a small corvette under 1.5ton which probably cost less than $150million, I would prefer a cheaper system like the Barak-1.



Holy pepperoni, looking at the location of those Barak 1 launchers, its definitely the short length of the missile that makes it possible to have so many VLS units.

Yes, Mica is 3 million and exocet is 5 million, crazy, but french stuff is very expensive.

In my opinion VN should it have ordered the Sigmas with KH-35 and Barak 8, that will save a lot of money.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Look at this Saar 4.5 boat. It's only 500tons but carries 32 barak-1 SAMs (4x 8cells VLS module at the back):
> $3 million for 1 MICA missile really? the Aster 15 sold to the UK and Italian was around $1.2 million each. I saw a documentary on the ESSM and it said they cost around $1mil as well. You might as well wait for the newer MBDA Sea Ceptor (CAMM). They supposedly have similar performances to the Aster 15 but designed to be smaller and cheaper.
> 
> India just sealed a contract to buy +200 barak-1 missiles at $550,000 each.
> 
> Remember for any SAM system, you have to buy plenty of missiles to stock up. So if the VPA buys 30 MICAs, that would cost about $90million already.  30 barak-1 would only cost around $17million. That's why I said for a small corvette under 1.5ton which probably cost less than $150million, I would prefer a cheaper system like the Barak-1.



Definitely very cost effective; the Israeli Spider is about the same cost for missiles also, but with an extra meter for the Python missile and an extra 1.5 meters for the derby missile, can't fit as many in a small ship.

Thank you, good pics.

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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> Người ta là nick mới nhưng có hiểu biết chứ không như ai đó chá dám mở miệng lúc đang tranh cãi rồi đợi nguội mới dám đâm chọt sau lựng
> 
> Since we still have large numbers of M48 in reserve after the Vietnam War, we should ask Israelis to sign a contract to upgrade our M48s to Magach 6/7 standard if we have the money and we might as well continue to find a better modernization program for the T-54/55s too.


I am impressed


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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> Người ta là nick mới nhưng có hiểu biết chứ không như ai đó chá dám mở miệng lúc đang tranh cãi rồi đợi nguội mới dám đâm chọt sau lựng
> 
> Since we still have large numbers of M48 in reserve after the Vietnam War, we should ask Israelis to sign a contract to upgrade our M48s to Magach 6/7 standard if we have the money and we might as well continue to find a better modernization program for the T-54/55s too.



Hiểu biết quá chài, 1 nói VN không tiền mua vũ khí, 2 ngoặt sang nói mua thế sao bì được với TQ, lại tào lào này nọ về việc VN mua vũ khí TQ.
Thôi, bái phục anh, diễn tiếp đi.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Holy pepperoni, looking at the location of those Barak 1 launchers, its definitely the short length of the missile that makes it possible to have so many VLS units.
> 
> Yes, Mica is 3 million and exocet is 5 million, crazy, but french stuff is very expensive.
> 
> In my opinion VN should it have ordered the Sigmas with KH-35 and Barak 8, that will save a lot of money.



Yes, and the barak-1 system can still be improved if they are integrated with a more modern radar such as the EL/M-2248 AESA (installed on the Indian Kolkata class and the 1000ton Israeli Saar 5) or there's the cheaper EL/M-2258 for smaller boat. With these newer radar, the capabilities of the Barak-1 will be higher (e.g. more multi target).

The French system for your Sigma seems to be a rip-off. I'd rather go for a complete Israeli system including the EL/M-2248 AESA radar and Barak-8. I'm pretty sure they can also integrate the KH-35 Uran with it.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yes, and the barak-1 system can still be improved if they are integrated with a more modern radar such as the EL/M-2248 AESA (installed on the Indian Kolkata class and the 1000ton Israeli Saar 5) or there's the cheaper EL/M-2258 for smaller boat. With these newer radar, the capabilities of the Barak-1 will be higher (e.g. more multi target).
> 
> The French system for your Sigma seems to be a rip-off. I'd rather go for a complete Israeli system including the EL/M-2248 AESA radar and Barak-8. I'm pretty sure they can also integrate the KH-35 Uran with it.



I totally agree, I understand that VN wants the experience of western tech, but everything has limits and the money available is limited.

The Sigma ships at $350 million each are already very expensive, but when adding the cost of missiles, it gets crazy. Mica is good, but Barak 8 is way superior and lets not forget that Barak 8 was designed to intercept the Yakhon missiles that Syria has, so its perfect to intercept chinese supersonic missiles and at a range of 500 m to 70 km, I don't know of anything that comes close to it. Add the Israeli radar EL/M-2248 AESA and you have an AEGIS system, actually, the Israelis say that the Barak 8 is better than the AEGIS missiles.

Barak 8 missiles are $1.2 million by the way.

I'm not aware of anything that makes Exocet better than KH-35 which is 1.8 million, so from 5 million to 1.8, what do you get for that? Not worth it in my opinion.

The only thing that I consider very worth it in the Sigma is the Smart-S MK2 radar, but then again, the Israelis have a very good one too. I think Vietnam went too much for the standard Sigma package instead of mixing and customizing as India usually does.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> I am impressed



Why are you impressed so easily. He can use Google translate. Write something in Vietnamese slang without those marks and ask him to translate it into English.



Carlosa said:


> I totally agree, I understand that VN wants the experience of western tech, but everything has limits and the money available is limited.
> 
> The Sigma ships at $350 million each are already very expensive, but when adding the cost of missiles, it gets crazy. Mica is good, but Barak 8 is way superior and lets not forget that Barak 8 was designed to intercept the Yakhon missiles that Syria has, so its perfect to intercept chinese supersonic missiles and at a range of 500 m to 70 km, I don't know of anything that comes close to it. Add the Israeli radar EL/M-2248 AESA and you have an AEGIS system, actually, the Israelis say that the Barak 8 is better than the AEGIS missiles.
> 
> Barak 8 missiles are $1.2 million by the way.
> 
> I'm not aware of anything that makes Exocet better than KH-35 which is 1.8 million, so from 5 million to 1.8, what do you get for that? Not worth it in my opinion.
> 
> The only thing that I consider very worth it in the Sigma is the Smart-S MK2 radar, but then again, the Israelis have a very good one too. I think Vietnam went too much for the standard Sigma package instead of mixing and customizing as India usually does.



Also the Indian are already using the Israeli system including the AESA radar and Barak (plus the KH-35) so they could help integrate the system (not to mention assisting with spare parts in the future). 

I also think the Israeli EL/M-2248 AESA is better than the SMART-S, although I haven't compare their specs.

Yea, the Israeli AESA + Barak-8 would be way superior to the SMART-S + MICA. 







A mini-Aegis indeed. Viet wouldn't have to demand the US for one if the VPA choose the Israeli system.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yes, and the barak-1 system can still be improved if they are integrated with a more modern radar such as the EL/M-2248 AESA (installed on the Indian Kolkata class and the 1000ton Israeli Saar 5) or there's the cheaper EL/M-2258 for smaller boat. With these newer radar, the capabilities of the Barak-1 will be higher (e.g. more multi target).
> 
> The French system for your Sigma seems to be a rip-off. I'd rather go for a complete Israeli system including the EL/M-2248 AESA radar and Barak-8. I'm pretty sure they can also integrate the KH-35 Uran with it.



I just read something interesting about the Saar 5 corvettes. Before the upgrade, they had 64 Barak 1 missiles. After the upgrade they have 16 Barak 8 missiles. Interesting, Israel goes all out for the Barak 8. Those ships are about 1300 tons.


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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> Magach 6/7 standard is only for the M-60 tank. Magach 5 would be the one for the M-48.
> The T-54/55 can still be put to good use, but in my opinion, the Achilles heel of the Israeli T-55M3 upgrade program for those tanks is that it uses the old british L-7 gun of 105 mm. I feel it needs to be a 125 mm gun; there are other upgrades that use the 125 mm in the T-54/55.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy pepperoni, looking at the location of those Barak 1 launchers, its definitely the short length of the missile that makes it possible to have so many VLS units.
> 
> Yes, Mica is 3 million and exocet is 5 million, crazy, but french stuff is very expensive.
> 
> In my opinion VN should it have ordered the Sigmas with KH-35 and Barak 8, that will save a lot of money.


For T-54 upgrade i would suggest Al-Zarrar if it's possible, and Al-Zarrar was neither designed or made by Chineses.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Why are you impressed so easily. He can use Google translate. Write something in Vietnamese slang without those marks and ask him to translate it into English.
> 
> 
> 
> Also the Indian are already using the Israeli system including the AESA radar and Barak (plus the KH-35) so they could help integrate the system (not to mention assisting with spare parts in the future).
> 
> I also think the Israeli EL/M-2248 AESA is better than the SMART-S, although I haven't compare their specs.
> 
> Yea, the Israeli AESA + Barak-8 would be way superior to the SMART-S + MICA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A mini-Aegis indeed. Viet wouldn't have to demand the US for one if the VPA choose the Israeli system.



Bingo, we found the solution for Viet, now he has to lobby the VN MOD for the Israeli systems.

Do you know how much is the radar EL/M-2248 per chance?

I think VN needs to get in bed with India for naval systems (that includes Israel); much more cost effective that the Europeans, everything European is very expensive.



Zeenar said:


> For T-54 upgrade i would suggest Al-Zarrar if it's possible, and Al-Zarrar was neither designed or made by Chineses.



I agree, that's the upgrade I had in mind when I mentioned that there are other upgrades using the 125 mm gun. I don't know much about the quality of the electronic systems, but the gun, the turret and the overall feel of the tank is very good.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Why are you impressed so easily. He can use Google translate. Write something in Vietnamese slang without those marks and ask him to translate it into English.
> 
> 
> 
> Also the Indian are already using the Israeli system including the AESA radar and Barak (plus the KH-35) so they could help integrate the system (not to mention assisting with spare parts in the future).
> 
> I also think the Israeli EL/M-2248 AESA is better than the SMART-S, although I haven't compare their specs.
> 
> Yea, the Israeli AESA + Barak-8 would be way superior to the SMART-S + MICA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A mini-Aegis indeed. Viet wouldn't have to demand the US for one if the VPA choose the Israeli system.



India has been suffering from never ending delays in their domestic procurement system, etc, but now the ships are starting to come out, system integration is getting finalized and with the new Modi guy that likes to do things in a business type of manner, I think they are going to have momentum, its time for VN to stick close to India and benefit from what they have.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I just read something interesting about the Saar 5 corvettes. Before the upgrade, they had 64 Barak 1 missiles. After the upgrade they have 16 Barak 8 missiles. Interesting, Israel goes all out for the Barak 8. Those ships are about 1300 tons.



I think that's because Israel need those Saar to protect the newly diacovered gas field. So they need to replace the point defence system (barak-1) with the longer range area defence system (barak-8) to protect the gas field.



Carlosa said:


> Bingo, we found the solution for Viet, now he has to lobby the VN MOD for the Israeli systems.
> 
> Do you know how much is the radar EL/M-2248 per chance?
> 
> I think VN needs to get in bed with India for naval systems (that includes Israel); much more cost effective that the Europeans, everything European is very expensive.



I think you can ask the Indian members here to know the cost for the EL/M-2248 AESA. They just recently bought theirs. @Gessler, any idea? 

VN is already in bed with India and Israel. They just need to make the orders. India can provide the system training as well. And if the Israeli are ever forced to place an embargo on spare parts for any reason, VN still has India as a back up for spare parts. You dont have this backup with the French system.

Ah have to log off now, too much things to do early tomorrow morning.

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## Zeenar

Soryu said:


> Hiểu biết quá chài, 1 nói VN không tiền mua vũ khí, 2 ngoặt sang nói mua thế sao bì được với TQ, lại tào lào này nọ về việc VN mua vũ khí TQ.
> Thôi, bái phục anh, diễn tiếp đi.


Thế thanh niên biết thì góp ý kiến cho mấy bác kia đi, sao cứ phải ở trong góc mà nói trổng thế, mà sự thật là VN có nhiều tiền không? nếu không thì làm ơn im đi.
And for the effective Anti-tank role against Chinese tanks, i suggest we should mount AT-4s on M113 APCs.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I think that's because Israel need those Saar to protect the newly diacovered gas field. So they need to replace the point defence system (barak-1) with the longer range area defence system (barak-8) to protect the gas field.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you can ask the Indian members here to know the cost for the EL/M-2248 AESA. They just recently bought theirs.
> 
> VN is already in bed with India and Israel. They just need to make the orders. India can provide the system training as well. And if the Israeli are ever forced to place an embargo on spare parts for any reason, VN still has India as a back up for spare parts. You dont have this backup with the French system.
> 
> Ah have to log off now, too much things to do early tomorrow morning.



Yes, that's what I mean, they need to make the orders and get things moving.

Frankly, I think VN has a lack of confidence in its own capabilities when it comes to military industries, they are too conservative, they don't want to take risks and they move very slowly. They used to do much better before 1975. 
I see no reason why VN can't make its own armored vehicles, tanks, ships, etc. I don't know, I just feel that.

O.k., thank you, take care man.


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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> For T-54 upgrade i would suggest Al-Zarrar if it's possible, and Al-Zarrar was neither designed or made by Chineses.


too late. I read the army has chosen Israel. the upgraded version is called T-54M3. the modernization would be carried out similar to of T-55M3: with new 105-mm main gun, fire control system, machine gun, gearbox and transmission, mortar/grenade launcher, German 1,000 HP diesel engine, reactive armour, etc...

with modern ammo, the upgraded tank can destroy any modern tanks at an effective range of 1,000m.


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## Zeenar

Viet said:


> too late. I read the army has chosen Israel. the upgraded version is called T-54M3. the modernization would be carried out similar to of T-55M3: with new main gun, fire control system. machine gun, gearbox and transmission, etc...


Lol no man VPA has already abandoned the project because it didn't help much, Israelis only improved armour and electronics while VPA is looking for an upgrade version of T-54 which improves both Firepower and Protection and I believe Al-Zarrar is suitable for that.


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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> Lol no man VPA has already abandoned the project because it didn't help much, Israelis only improved armour and electronics while VPA is looking for an upgrade version of T-54 which improves both Firepower and Protection and I believe Al-Zarrar is suitable for that.


old news. allegedly the army has restarted the project. well, no confirmation yet.
unlikely that we will choose Pakistan. you are in bed with the Chinese

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> too late. I read the army has chosen Israel. the upgraded version is called T-54M3. the modernization would be carried out similar to of T-55M3: with new 105-mm main gun, fire control system, machine gun, gearbox and transmission, mortar/grenade launcher, German 1,000 HP diesel engine, reactive armour, etc...
> 
> with modern ammo, the upgraded tank can destroy any modern tanks at an effective range of 1,000m.



This program keeps going on and off, never know how the story ends.

Sorry bro, but that 105 mm gun can't perforate the best armor of today's tanks. Even the 125 mm can't perforate the armor of a T-90 tank. The 105 mm gun is the weak point of the upgrade, but still a much better tank than before the upgrade, but not cheap at $930.000 a piece.

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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> Thế thanh niên biết thì góp ý kiến cho mấy bác kia đi, sao cứ phải ở trong góc mà nói trổng thế, mà sự thật là VN có nhiều tiền không? nếu không thì làm ơn im đi.
> And for the effective Anti-tank role against Chinese tanks, i suggest we should mount AT-4s on M113 APCs.




LOL, I'm just normal people, so when I has some lazy, boring free time, I come here, sometime I serious, sometime for fun chit chat or troll with Chinese member.
When I serious, I want to know and gain some knowledge, experience, thoughts from other member.

I'm not here to prove myself as military or political expert, if I know or I want, so I post my thoughts, if I don't, so not.
You don't have right to command me anything, if you want to prove yourself, do it with good manner, don't be arrogant.

Your suggest is confuse with your thought, when you said VPA don't have money, and PLA has good quality and massive budget, and VN should buy equipments from PRC, and with purpose to against PLA, very expert ...


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## Zeenar

Soryu said:


> LOL, I'm just normal people, so when I has some lazy, boring free time, I come here, sometime I serious, sometime for fun chit chat or troll with Chinese member.
> When I serious, I want to know and gain some knowledge, experience, thoughts from other member.
> 
> I'm not here to prove myself as military or political expert, if I know or I want, so I post my thoughts, if I don't, so not.
> You don't have right to command me anything, if you want to prove yourself, do it with good manner, don't be arrogant.
> 
> Your suggest is confuse with your thought, when you said VPA don't have money, and PLA has good quality and massive budget, and VN should buy equipments from PRC, and with purpose to against PLA, very expert ...


I only suggested you to buy Chinese weapons, i didnt tell you to use it against PLA, smartass.


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## Soryu

Zeenar said:


> I only suggested you to buy Chinese weapons, i didnt tell you to use it against PLA, smartass.


So what should we do with those weapons then !?


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## fadine

In some Vietnamese forums, have some chineses personate Vietnamese for bad mission. Now, on this forum, this incident happens again.

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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> I only suggested you to buy Chinese weapons, i didnt tell you to use it against PLA, smartass.


you haven´t realized that your idea is absurd?


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## Zeenar

Viet said:


> you haven´t realized that your idea is absurd?


No?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Everything in steps bro, need to build the littoral navy before going into the blue water navy and also need to set up the surveillance and stand off targeting system as well as the C3ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) in order to properly use the blue water navy. Need to also beef up the air force further in order to provide better cover for the navy.
> 
> When all the pieces are in place and the country's GDP grow enough, then that will be the time for destroyers, etc. Patience is a virtue bro.


I know having and maintaining a destroyer fleet is a very costly. however we should consider it from another perspective: a destroyer fleet is an investment, not just only an expensive toy. until yet, we haven´t done any oil/gas explorations outside our 200 miles EEZ along our mainland coast line. if we increase our fire power in the south china sea, we can begin to drill in the Spratlys. Finding one or two oil wells are enough to finance the future destroyer fleet.

warfare is all about of perception and deception. mighty destroyers can impress opponent navies and keep them away from our waters. I doubt they are impressed by our small and medium surface warships.

the most important thing: we should continue to construct and expand our holdings in the Spratlys (the Philippines notice our activities).
Vietnam also has garrisons in PH zone of Spratlys

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## Carlosa

India to supply Vietnam with naval vessels amid China disputes - Yahoo News

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India will soon be supplying naval vessels to Vietnam, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Tuesday.................

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## Viet

Zeenar said:


> No?


would Pakistan buy weapons from India?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I know having and maintaining a destroyer fleet is a very costly. however we should consider it from another perspective: a destroyer fleet is an investment, not just only an expensive toy. until yet, we haven´t done any oil/gas explorations outside our 200 miles EEZ along our mainland coast line. if we increase our fire power in the south china sea, we can begin to drill in the Spratlys. Finding one or two oil wells are enough to finance the future destroyer fleet.
> 
> warfare is all about of perception and deception. mighty destroyers can impress opponent navies and keep them away from our waters. I doubt they are impressed by our small and medium surface warships.
> 
> the most important thing: we should continue to construct and expand our holdings in the Spratlys (the Philippines notice our activities).
> Vietnam also has garrisons in PH zone of Spratlys



Yes, of course, but have to also consider that the drilling itself can bring a fight with china (depending on the location).

Nothing wrong with getting destroyers, but have to do the basic steps first, otherwise it will be easy to lose those destroyers.
Vietnam needs to build up much more before getting destroyers and the air force is actually more important than destroyers right now.

But anyway, the cheap road to destroyers would be to get smaller ships, more like heavy frigates (4000-4500 tons), but loaded with heavy weapons like a destroyer. The Russian ship Admiral Gorshkov class is a good example, but with Israeli radar and Barak 8 missiles and Brahmos. That would be an small Aegis destroyer. Add to that some ASW frigates such as the Kamorta class of India (Vietnam is interested on those) and you'll have some heavy firepower, but still, you need the other elements of the network also, particularly surveillance satellites.

By the way, Vietnam should follow china on doing land reclamation in the islands and build bases. The next step would be to deploy ships on those islands (and they need to be small ships in order to operate there, so have to build up the numbers of small ships first). The Molniya class would be a good ship to deploy in the Spratlys.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> India to supply Vietnam with naval vessels amid China disputes - Yahoo News
> 
> NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India will soon be supplying naval vessels to Vietnam, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Tuesday.................


nice, a good start. especially the announcement of naval and not patrol vessels.
Modi is said as a nationalist and China hater. He was not amused by repeated PLA incursions recently.

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## pher

Viet said:


> nice, a good start. especially the announcement of naval and not patrol vessels.
> Modi is said as a nationalist and China hater. He was not amused by repeated PLA incursions recently.


congrats you viets to degrade yourself to hang around with india, the laughstock in the world. I wish you forget all what China taught you in the past 2000 years and wholeheartedly embrace india.


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## Carlosa

pher said:


> congrats you viets to degrade yourself to hang around with india, the laughstock in the world. I wish you forget all what China taught you in the past 2000 years and wholeheartedly embrace india.



Thank you, that is precisely the idea, to forget everything related to china and to just deal with decent countries like India. The more the better.



Viet said:


> nice, a good start. especially the announcement of naval and not patrol vessels.
> Modi is said as a nationalist and China hater. He was not amused by repeated PLA incursions recently.



Most likely 4 OPV vessels.

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## Viet

a news for our indonesian neighbor:
A ceremorny was held in Hanoi, on October 22nd to commemorate the 69th anniversary of the Indonesian National Defence Forces, with Colonel Susilo Adi Purwantoro, Defence Attaché of the Republic of Indonesia to Vietnam











Hanoi on October 21: Vietnam-US defence dialogue
the lady in blue is Amy Searight, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for South and Southeast Asia. she successfully negotiated with Vietnam to release Nguyen Van Hai, a jailed blogger.










interesting: the new UK Ambassador to Vietnam, Giles Lever visits the defence ministry. Vietnam informs him of the plan opening Defense Attache’ Office in the UK in the near future.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Most likely 4 OPV vessels.


I hope our PM can convince India to provide us with more potent hardware: brahmos, frigate/destroyer.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I hope our PM can convince India to provide us with more potent hardware: brahmos, frigate/destroyer.



I hope so too. We'll find out soon.


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## Viet

pher said:


> congrats you viets to degrade yourself to hang around with india, the laughstock in the world. I wish you forget all what China taught you in the past 2000 years and wholeheartedly embrace india.


luckily we refused to learn how to massarce the own populace. nor exporting genocide to other country such as cambodia.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I hope so too. We'll find out soon.


thing becomes dirty. the visiting Chinese State Councilor, Yang Jiechi pays a visit to VN communism chief Nguyen Phu Trong.
I guess Yang will try his best talent to lull him of importance of communism brotherhood

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## Water Car Engineer

Is it OPV or patrol boats?





























Some of the large OPVs being made in India.

Also more compact corvettes with cruise missile, better radar, etc.

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## Carlosa

Water Car Engineer said:


> Is it OPV or patrol boats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the large OPVs being made in India.
> 
> Also more compact corvettes with cruise missile, better radar, etc.



There are rumors about the 75 m OPV from the Goa shipyard (your last 2 pics).


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> This program keeps going on and off, never know how the story ends.
> 
> Sorry bro, but that 105 mm gun can't perforate the best armor of today's tanks. Even the 125 mm can't perforate the armor of a T-90 tank. The 105 mm gun is the weak point of the upgrade, but still a much better tank than before the upgrade, but not cheap at $930.000 a piece.


true, the proposed upgrade is not cheap. do you know if our modernized T-55M3 is capable to destroy chinese tanks?

if not, the army is maybe under pressure to start to negotiate with the Russians that we can self produce T-90 tanks. I think 1,000 tanks are at least the goal to counter chinese tank army. nobody knows when they will run amok again. at last war 1979, the PLA sent 400 tanks into the battle. I guess they will send at least 1,000 tanks at next encounter.


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## Viet

Water Car Engineer said:


> Is it OPV or patrol boats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the large OPVs being made in India.
> 
> Also more compact corvettes with cruise missile, better radar, etc.


most likely 4 saryu class 2,300t naval offshore patrol vessels
Ấn Độ sẽ chuyển giao cho Việt Nam 4 tàu tuần tra


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## pher

Viet said:


> true, the proposed upgrade is not cheap. do you know if our modernized T-55M3 is capable to destroy chinese tanks?
> 
> if not, the army is maybe under pressure to start to negotiate with the Russians that we can self produce T-90 tanks. I think 1,000 tanks are at least the goal to counter chinese tank army. nobody knows when they will run amok again. at last war 1979, the PLA sent 400 tanks into the battle. I guess they will send at least 1,000 tanks at next encounter.


you dream. why should we send tanks next time. we will just bomb you back into stoneage, it is more cost-effective.


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## Viet

pher said:


> you dream. why should we send tanks next time. we will just bomb you back into stoneage, it is more cost-effective.


bomb with your mouth 
do you assume we don´t return the fire? we have enough stuffs to bomb southern china into ruins.

India has apparently approved the sales of brahmos cruise missiles. India will wait to enter the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime) before making a sale. Do you want to offer your ships as practice targets for our navy?

India ignores China's frown, offers defence boost to Vietnam - The Times of India

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> true, the proposed upgrade is not cheap. do you know if our modernized T-55M3 is capable to destroy chinese tanks?
> 
> if not, the army is maybe under pressure to start to negotiate with the Russians that we can self produce T-90 tanks. I think 1,000 tanks are at least the goal to counter chinese tank army. nobody knows when they will run amok again. at last war 1979, the PLA sent 400 tanks into the battle. I guess they will send at least 1,000 tanks at next encounter.



Its impossible to answer for sure without having data from actual combat or firing trials and can't depend on chinese date either since they love to make everything better than what it really is.
I would say that probably can't penetrate the armor of the type 99, but don't really know.

There are rumors about the russians going to set up a T-90 tank factory in VN for exports.

Don't forget also that north vietnam is not a good terrain for tanks.

VN already have several battalions of T-90's.



Viet said:


> bomb with your mouth
> do you assume we don´t return the fire? we have enough stuffs to bomb southern china into ruins.
> 
> India has apparently approved the sales of brahmos cruise missiles. India will wait to enter the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime) before making a sale. Do you want to offer your ships as practice targets for our navy?
> 
> India ignores China's frown, offers defence boost to Vietnam - The Times of India



Don't like that thing about having to wait to enter the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime) before making a sale, that would bring the range down to 300 km and don't know how long the wait will be.



Viet said:


> most likely 4 saryu class 2,300t naval offshore patrol vessels
> Ấn Độ sẽ chuyển giao cho Việt Nam 4 tàu tuần tra



I'm not sure about that, I think the picture in the article with that ship was just a sample of what is available. I've read that VN has not decided what shipyard to order from.

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## Viet

nice: after we accepted the credit offer of $100m, India offers another $300m for trade diversification. whatever it means.
buying warships is a means of boosting the economy, isn´t it? 

India, Vietnam dare the Chinese dragon

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> nice: after we accepted the credit offer of $100m, India offers another $300m for trade diversification. whatever it means.
> buying warships is a means of boosting the economy, isn´t it?
> 
> India, Vietnam dare the Chinese dragon



"Trade diversification" means to substitute chinese imports.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its impossible to answer for sure without having data from actual combat or firing trials and can't depend on chinese date either since they love to make everything better than what it really is.
> I would say that probably can't penetrate the armor of the type 99, but don't really know.
> 
> There are rumors about the russians going to set up a T-90 tank factory in VN for exports.
> Don't forget also that north vietnam is not a good terrain for tanks.
> 
> *VN already have several battalions of T-90's*.


is the info credible that we already operate T-90?


Carlosa said:


> Don't like that thing about having to wait to enter the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime) before making a sale, that would bring the range down to 300 km and don't know how long the wait will be.


India hesitates because it fears chinese retaliations. understandable.


Carlosa said:


> I'm not sure about that, I think the picture in the article with that ship was just a sample of what is available. I've read that VN has not decided what shipyard to order from.


it is typical for vietnam. everything is a guess. we virtually know little until thing is officially disclosed.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> is the info credible that we already operate T-90?



90% accurate.

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## Viet

shooting training


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## pher

Viet said:


> bomb with your mouth
> do you assume we don´t return the fire? we have enough stuffs to bomb southern china into ruins.
> 
> India has apparently approved the sales of brahmos cruise missiles. India will wait to enter the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime) before making a sale. Do you want to offer your ships as practice targets for our navy?
> 
> India ignores China's frown, offers defence boost to Vietnam - The Times of India


this is exactly the after-effect of hanging around with indians, Look at the tone of your bragging, just like indians even not worth to argue. 

You viets deserve to belong to south asia. I will launch a movement to drive vietnam affair out of this section to where you belong.


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## Soryu

pher said:


> this is exactly the after-effect of hanging around with indians, Look at the tone of your bragging, just like indians even not worth to argue.
> 
> You viets deserve to belong to south asia. I will launch a movement to drive vietnam affair out of this section to where you belong.


Yes, you can command PDF staffs ...


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> 90% accurate.



Mimpi basah, mabuk kecubung


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## Carlosa

Very interesting articles, quite a surprise. I've tried to find those pictures online, but could not. If somebody find them, please post them.

Satellite photo shows Vietnam's land reclamation in South China Sea｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

Pixel by pixel, Taiwan maps out claims to contested South China Sea (+video) - CSMonitor.com

Satellite images captured by Taiwan indicate that Vietnam is pushing for land reclamation much harder than China in the disputed South China Sea, the Christian Science Monitor reported on Sept. 23.

Wang Cheng-gi from the Satellite Surveying Center of the Department of Land Administration under Taiwan's Ministry of the Interior, who is in charge of a US$3 million project to produce high-resolution satellite images of the disputed South China Sea, said he was surprised to find out that Vietnam is developing reefs and artificial islands in the disputed Spratlys. He also said that *one Vietnamese landfill project spans 11 football fields*.

"Everyone is talking about mainland China, but Vietnam is going all out," Wang said.

The Spratly islands are variously claimed in whole or in part by China, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia. Taiping, also referred to as Itu Aba, was the largest island in the group before the large scale land reclamation projects got underway and is the only island currently under Taiwan's control. An armed conflict between Taipei and Hanoi could potentially take place in the future if Vietnam continues to expand its influence in the region.

Alexander Huang, professor of strategic studies at Tamkang University in New Taipei, said the high-resolution satellite images will give Taiwan could be a valuable intelligence asset to scholars in Washington in assessing the basis of China's claim to the islands.

References:

Wang Cheng-gi 王成機



madokafc said:


> Mimpi basah, mabuk kecubung



Hermanita, vuelve a la cocina, ese lugar es mas apropiado para ti.

That reminds me of when you used to say that there was no coast guard version of the TT-400TP and you were all adamant about that, same level of accuracy as now. I suggest you stick to the Indonesian military.

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## Viet

pher said:


> this is exactly the after-effect of hanging around with indians, Look at the tone of your bragging, just like indians even not worth to argue.
> 
> You viets deserve to belong to south asia. I will launch a movement to drive vietnam affair out of this section to where you belong.


I wonder why you complain that we made some business with India. Haven´t China commander in chief Xi Jinping and his beautiful wife visited India recently? I once said: you have no humour. that is true with you.

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## Viet

subhunting Ka-28 pilots of the 954th Brigade: take off-landing practice on a Gepard frigate

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## Viet

the domestic made warship TT400-TP class receives ISO9001 certification. well done Hong Ha Shipyard.

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## Viet

the crew of the Kilo sub "Ho Chi Minh", graduated in Russia. already on hunting trip in the south china sea.

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## pher

Viet said:


> I wonder why you complain that we made some business with India. Haven´t China commander in chief Xi Jinping and his beautiful wife visited India recently? I once said: you have no humour. that is true with you.


where did you see my complaint, don't think too high of yourself like indians.? In fact, I am happy to see you 2 countries meet together finally, congrats you two. why feel so negatively by putting you beside india, you two are made in heaven. besides, stop call your those bullshit as humor.


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## Viet

pher said:


> where did you see my complaint, don't think too high of yourself like indians.? In fact, I am happy to see you 2 countries meet together finally, congrats you two. why feel so negatively by putting you beside india, you two are made in heaven. besides, stop call your those bullshit as humor.


what is the difference when you visit India? you celebrate China-India friendship in high tone, but when we visit India, you are hostile.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> what is the difference when you visit India? you celebrate China-India friendship in high tone, but when we visit India, you are hostile.



Hostile? How could that be possible? Mr. Xi said that chinese don't have the genes for aggression!

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> the crew of the Kilo sub "Ho Chi Minh", graduated in Russia. already on hunting trip in the south china sea.


Make it a hunting season to hunt down the Chinese thugs in the SCE


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Do you know how much is the radar EL/M-2248 per chance?



I asked some Indian members, but no answer.

According to a 2007 SIPRI report, India paid $200 million for 3 units. So around $67 million for one unit back in 2006.

How much does one SMART-S Mk2 unit cost?


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I asked some Indian members, but no answer.
> 
> According to a 2007 SIPRI report, India paid $200 million for 3 units. So around $67 million for one unit back in 2006.
> 
> How much does one SMART-S Mk2 unit cost?



Oh thank you, probably at least $80-90 million today.

I have not being able to find the price of the Smart-S MK2 yet.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Hostile? How could that be possible? Mr. Xi said that chinese don't have the genes for aggression!


well, at least Xi has sense for humour while this dude pher not


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## Viet

@Carlosa
I believed you asked the question. according to this news, VN has NOT signed the contract for additional 4 Molnyia yet. that says the Director General of Vympel shipyard at Interpolitex 2014 exhibition. I guess the navy wants to spend the money on bigger, more advanced warships instead.

Nga thử nghiệm cặp tàu tên lửa Molnyia để chuẩn bị giao cho Việt Nam | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng


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## Viet

_the analyze lacks of one important piece of information: Vietnam coastal artillery such as Yakhonts and the likes. the artillery threatens all enemy warships within 300km. 

Vietnamese surface warships and surveillance aircraft are protected by this missile shield when on patrol or combat situation. However, it is too bad (but not shocking) to hear that, in terms of jet fighters, warships and submarines, our forces have even less than half of those in the Guangzhou Military Region. the imbalance of power is huge, but that is not a breaking news for us. but more than military hardware, we have one important asset in the inventory: our warfare._

*Is Vietnam in denial on military strategy? | East Asia Forum*
30 October 2014
Author: Shang-su Wu, RSIS

Vietnam’s recent, and significant, investment in military hardware is aimed at coping with a changing strategic environment. But will it make any significant difference in balancing against China’s military might in the South China Sea?







Over the last ten years, Vietnam has been especially focusing defence investment in its air and naval capability. This has included the purchase of Su-30MK2 fighter bombers, Project 636 submarines, as well as several types of surface vessels and missiles. These purchases may reveal Vietnam’s inclination towards an anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) strategy aimed at preventing foreign access or activities in its territorial waters. But in the face of the superior Chinese military power, Vietnam’s military procurements appear inadequate for pursuing an A2/AD strategy and may not achieve their intended goal.

First, as surveillance is the key for a ‘denial’ strategy, Vietnam’s existing platforms for maritime surveillance are potentially vulnerable. Hanoi has introduced three types of maritime surveillance aircraft (DHC-6-400, M-28P and C-212) for its air force and coast guard. But these slow propeller-powered aircraft are easy prey for Chinese fighters’ beyond-vision-range missiles, and even surface vessels’ long-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs).

Although Hanoi has launched a remote sensing satellite using French technology and management, its function for denial operation could be limited. The remote sensing satellite is to scrutinise geographic and geologic information rather than real time intelligence on the location of Chinese vessels. Additionally, the French management of the satellite may not cooperate with Hanoi’s military demands due to pressure from Beijing’s. If those aerial surveillance platforms are unable to search maritime targets during warfare, most Vietnamese strike units would need to find their own targets, and an optimal distribution of fire power would be less likely.

Second, Vietnam has a smaller number of sophisticated weapon systems than China. In terms of the third and fourth generation fighters, surface vessels and submarines, Vietnamese forces have even less than half of those in the Guangzhou Military Region. This leaves the Vietnamese military with a smaller margin for loss, presenting a disadvantage in attrition war. Vietnamese submarines may overcome certain asymmetrical disadvantages in the short term but would struggle in the long term. The People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) South Sea Fleet could also deploy submarines outside major Vietnamese naval bases, such as Cam Ranh Bay, to monitor their operation.

Third, both Hanoi and Beijing procured several similar Russian weapon systems, such as the Su-30MK2, Project 636 submarines and S-300 PMU-1 SAMs. Due to the earlier purchase and China’s famous reverse engineering, the Chinese forces can already grasp the complete performance and characteristics of these weapon systems — Vietnam can’t. As a result, Hanoi may lose some tactical surprises which are supposed to compensate for their quantitative inferiority. In sum, Vietnam’s military modernisation may not achieve an A2AD strategic goal.

Finally, domestic budget constraints also suggest that another wave of massive military hardware procurement is unlikely. As such, it is unlikely that Vietnam will possess substantial capabilities in the foreseeable future.

Nevertheless, although Hanoi’s effort on defence may not effectively check Beijing’s massive military power, it does provide some strategic value. First, Vietnam is able to deter China much better than before. Compared to the end of the last century, the disincentives for Beijing using force against Vietnam are much greater. In order to ensure a successful outcome, the PLA would have to deploy more units to counter its Vietnamese counterparts. But more units would decrease strategic surprises and leave a more aggressive impression of China among the international community. As the Philippines — another ‘frontline’ state facing China’s strategic pressure — strengthens its defence through the Enhance Defence Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) with the United States, Vietnam’s considerable investment in defence could make it harder prey for China’s expansion or assertiveness.

Second, Hanoi’s military modernisation may serve as a bargain chip in negotiation with other powers for security cooperation. Vietnam’s investment in defence could lower the cost of intervention and ensure its commitment to defence rather than overall dependence. This would increase the possibility of extended deterrence or external intervention from a third party. And it would improve the military balance between Vietnam and China. But in view of Beijing’s increasing economic and military capability, a third party power may hesitate to support Hanoi in fear of the high costs of confrontation.

Overall, Hanoi’s military modernisation has not dramatically changed its attitude toward Beijing. Despite tension over conflicting territorial claims, Vietnamese decision makers still contact their Chinese counterparts through party-to-party and other channels. Considering the bilateral economic ties and inferior military capability, Hanoi may continue with a cautious tone in its relations with Beijing.

_Dr Wu Shang-Su is Research Fellow at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Nanyang Technological University, Singapore._


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> I believed you asked the question. according to this news, VN has NOT signed the contract for additional 4 Molnyia yet. that says the Director General of Vympel shipyard at Interpolitex 2014 exhibition. I guess the navy wants to spend the money on bigger, more advanced warships instead.
> 
> Nga thử nghiệm cặp tàu tên lửa Molnyia để chuẩn bị giao cho Việt Nam | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng



Thank you for the info, that makes a lot of sense and is consistent with what my Navy source told me before.
Actually, as of early this year, he had told me that the Navy does not want the extra ships since they prefer larger ships with more up to date technology, but I thought that after the oil rig thing, they were maybe going to get them in order to build up the vessel quantity faster, but I guess not.

Another interesting thing, I contacted Alexander Huang by email, the Taiwanese man that took the satellite pictures of Vietnam's reclamation work as quoted in that article. He told me that the Satellite Survey Center in Taiwan has the pictures, he doesn't have access to them, he referred me to their website, but they only show a phone number, I think it will not be easy to get those pics. I just replied to him asking him some questions, lets see if he gives me more info.



Viet said:


> _the analyze lacks of one important piece of information: Vietnam coastal artillery such as Yakhonts and the likes. the artillery threatens all enemy warships within 300km.
> 
> Vietnamese surface warships and surveillance aircraft are protected by this missile shield when on patrol or combat situation. However, it is too bad (but not shocking) to hear that, in terms of jet fighters, warships and submarines, our forces have even less than half of those in the Guangzhou Military Region. the imbalance of power is huge, but that is not a breaking news for us._
> 
> *Is Vietnam in denial on military strategy? | East Asia Forum*
> 30 October 2014
> Author: Shang-su Wu, RSIS
> 
> Vietnam’s recent, and significant, investment in military hardware is aimed at coping with a changing strategic environment. But will it make any significant difference in balancing against China’s military might in the South China Sea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Over the last ten years, Vietnam has been especially focusing defence investment in its air and naval capability. This has included the purchase of Su-30MK2 fighter bombers, Project 636 submarines, as well as several types of surface vessels and missiles. These purchases may reveal Vietnam’s inclination towards an anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) strategy aimed at preventing foreign access or activities in its territorial waters. But in the face of the superior Chinese military power, Vietnam’s military procurements appear inadequate for pursuing an A2/AD strategy and may not achieve their intended goal.
> 
> First, as surveillance is the key for a ‘denial’ strategy, Vietnam’s existing platforms for maritime surveillance are potentially vulnerable. Hanoi has introduced three types of maritime surveillance aircraft (DHC-6-400, M-28P and C-212) for its air force and coast guard. But these slow propeller-powered aircraft are easy prey for Chinese fighters’ beyond-vision-range missiles, and even surface vessels’ long-range surface-to-air missiles (SAMs).
> 
> Although Hanoi has launched a remote sensing satellite using French technology and management, its function for denial operation could be limited. The remote sensing satellite is to scrutinise geographic and geologic information rather than real time intelligence on the location of Chinese vessels. Additionally, the French management of the satellite may not cooperate with Hanoi’s military demands due to pressure from Beijing’s. If those aerial surveillance platforms are unable to search maritime targets during warfare, most Vietnamese strike units would need to find their own targets, and an optimal distribution of fire power would be less likely.
> 
> Second, Vietnam has a smaller number of sophisticated weapon systems than China. In terms of the third and fourth generation fighters, surface vessels and submarines, Vietnamese forces have even less than half of those in the Guangzhou Military Region. This leaves the Vietnamese military with a smaller margin for loss, presenting a disadvantage in attrition war. Vietnamese submarines may overcome certain asymmetrical disadvantages in the short term but would struggle in the long term. The People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) South Sea Fleet could also deploy submarines outside major Vietnamese naval bases, such as Cam Ranh Bay, to monitor their operation.
> 
> Third, both Hanoi and Beijing procured several similar Russian weapon systems, such as the Su-30MK2, Project 636 submarines and S-300 PMU-1 SAMs. Due to the earlier purchase and China’s famous reverse engineering, the Chinese forces can already grasp the complete performance and characteristics of these weapon systems — Vietnam can’t. As a result, Hanoi may lose some tactical surprises which are supposed to compensate for their quantitative inferiority. In sum, Vietnam’s military modernisation may not achieve an A2AD strategic goal.
> 
> Finally, domestic budget constraints also suggest that another wave of massive military hardware procurement is unlikely. As such, it is unlikely that Vietnam will possess substantial capabilities in the foreseeable future.
> 
> Nevertheless, although Hanoi’s effort on defence may not effectively check Beijing’s massive military power, it does provide some strategic value. First, Vietnam is able to deter China much better than before. Compared to the end of the last century, the disincentives for Beijing using force against Vietnam are much greater. In order to ensure a successful outcome, the PLA would have to deploy more units to counter its Vietnamese counterparts. But more units would decrease strategic surprises and leave a more aggressive impression of China among the international community. As the Philippines — another ‘frontline’ state facing China’s strategic pressure — strengthens its defence through the Enhance Defence Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) with the United States, Vietnam’s considerable investment in defence could make it harder prey for China’s expansion or assertiveness.
> 
> Second, Hanoi’s military modernisation may serve as a bargain chip in negotiation with other powers for security cooperation. Vietnam’s investment in defence could lower the cost of intervention and ensure its commitment to defence rather than overall dependence. This would increase the possibility of extended deterrence or external intervention from a third party. And it would improve the military balance between Vietnam and China. But in view of Beijing’s increasing economic and military capability, a third party power may hesitate to support Hanoi in fear of the high costs of confrontation.
> 
> Overall, Hanoi’s military modernisation has not dramatically changed its attitude toward Beijing. Despite tension over conflicting territorial claims, Vietnamese decision makers still contact their Chinese counterparts through party-to-party and other channels. Considering the bilateral economic ties and inferior military capability, Hanoi may continue with a cautious tone in its relations with Beijing.
> 
> _Dr Wu Shang-Su is Research Fellow at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Nanyang Technological University, Singapore._



I had read that article yesterday, its pretty much correct and is also consistent with what the chinese military says about Vietnam, they have a lot of respect for the vietnamese military, but they say that Vietnam's weaknesses are surveillance, targeting and battle management. That's why I always say that before getting destroyers, etc, need to finish building up the ecosystem that needs to go along with that and surveillance satellites are the main thing missing right now (particularly radar satellites).

One thing that is not quite correct in the article is that they don't seem to be aware that Vietnam is also doing fully domestic satellites now and they will be locally controlled, so the situation is actually getting better.


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Thank you for the info, that makes a lot of sense and is consistent with what my Navy source told me before.
> Actually, as of early this year, he had told me that the Navy does not want the extra ships since they prefer larger ships with more up to date technology, but I thought that after the oil rig thing, they were maybe going to get them in order to build up the vessel quantity faster, but I guess not.
> 
> Another interesting thing, I contacted Alexander Huang by email, the Taiwanese man that took the satellite pictures of Vietnam's reclamation work as quoted in that article. He told me that the Satellite Survey Center in Taiwan has the pictures, he doesn't have access to them, he referred me to their website, but they only show a phone number, I think it will not be easy to get those pics. I just replied to him asking him some questions, lets see if he gives me more info.


Oh that is pretty nice, pls post here the pics when available. I read we are doing land reclamations since years, but only on small scale. but the news of large scale construction surprises me as well, if true, that our works exceed those of chinese.


Carlosa said:


> I had read that article yesterday, its pretty much correct and is also consistent with what the chinese military says about Vietnam, they have a lot of respect for the vietnamese military, but they say that Vietnam's weaknesses are surveillance, targeting and battle management. That's why I always say that before getting destroyers, etc, need to finish building up the ecosystem that needs to go along with that and surveillance satellites are the main thing missing right now (particularly radar satellites).
> 
> One thing that is not quite correct in the article is that they don't seem to be aware that Vietnam is also doing fully domestic satellites now and they will be locally controlled, so the situation is actually getting better.


the army should hurry a bit. we are quite late to the party.


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## Europa

India to transfer four patrol ships to Vietnam｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com






Indian prime minister Narendra Modi announced a major military transfer to Vietnam on Tuesday to help modernize the country's military forces, reports the nationalistic Beijing Times.

Modi announced that India will sell four offshore patrol vessels to Vietnam and approve a US$100 million line of credit to the country as soon as possible to help Vietnam obtain the vessels. This comes after a meeting with Vietnamese prime minister Nguyen Tan Dung, who visited India from Oct 27-28.

The Indian leader said defense cooperation with Vietnam is extremely important to India and pledged to continue helping with efforts to modernize Vietnamese national defense and security forces, which will include expansion of training programs, joint military drills and collaboration in defense equipment.

The transfer was first reported by Reuters but Chinese reporting on the agreement omitted saying that India and Vietnam made the deal out of mutual interest, to increase their own military strengths against China's increasingly assertive claims in the South China Sea and the Himalayas, where India and Vietnam have clashed with their large neighbor over territorial claims.

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## abhi21

China must be pissed off!!

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## Kolaps

Not only just China piss off.

But also Taiwan, Philippine and Malaysia too!


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## SrNair

Kolaps said:


> Not only just China piss off.
> 
> But also Taiwan, Philippine and Malaysia too!



For what?


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## GR!FF!N

Europa said:


> India will sell four offshore patrol vessels to Vietnam and approve a US$100 million line of credit



so,these two are different...I thought they're going to but patrol ships using this credit.good for Vietnam.



Kolaps said:


> Not only just China piss off.
> 
> But also Taiwan, Philippine and Malaysia too!



Not Philippines.GRSE is in the race to build new frigates for them.

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## Tangent

...Taiwan , withthe help od US , must have good Navy..- I suppose.
...Vietnam lacked any support..either from US or Russia..


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## StarCraft_ZT

Good, Viet Nam is wasting their money to buy garbage.

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## Razia Sultana

pher said:


> should we be pissed off by indianized viets? No, we will celebrate.
> 
> remember, imcompetence can be contagious. I only wish all our enemies will be as competent as indians.


Gritty Viets have survived US and China without any help from outside. But modern day wars are not in the battlefield but in the minds. India-Vietnam military co-operation is already psyching China.

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## Trawllu

the key word here is as soon as possible


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## Hareeshu IA MBT

Vietnam will get major more tot by India counterpart .No doubt this get deeper and deeper when modi plan to sell weapon to other nations to create jobs inside the country . So we can expect more orders on surface vessels are concerned. On the other front India can share a bite of Russian / western technology on or under the table. So its going to be a huge diplomacy played by Chinese in the future . As china can't allow Vietnam to arms supplied by to them in timely manner like china doing with Pakistan and other Indian subcontinent countries .


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## Hareeshu IA MBT

Rajaraja Chola said:


> Indian naval platforms are matured enough to be sold and they are good enough.
> We do not need chinese trolls to tell us what to sell and what not, particularly seeing chinese cuddling in our neighbourhood..
> China must live with it instead of whining like a loser.


Rightly said . Why india not exporting weapons to other countries not their demand ? It's not that we don't want to but we don't have many to sell . If we produce something defo we will sell and make money out of it . Every day every times there are some good news from Indian defence ... So ill am sure India Vietnam relationship will of soviet had with India.


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## GR!FF!N

@Hu Songshan 

as usual,your countrymen are trolling in this thread.and as usual,you're nowhere to be seen..

@WebMaster 

kindly control these pathetic trolls...

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## Hareeshu IA MBT

Cold war between India and China already started . But India kept ignoring it for way too long . China already doing Soviet USA cold war stuff with India and other south china sea nations .


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## notsuperstitious

pher said:


> should we be pissed off by indianized viets? No, we will celebrate.
> 
> remember, imcompetence can be contagious. I only wish all our enemies will be as competent as indians.



@Hu Songshan thats more racist attack. I can say all posters are as arrogant and foul mouthed as chinese... thats generalizing an entire people - also called racism. There are so many chinese posters who engage in open racism against other nationalities that it is a disgrace to your moderation.



Beidou2020 said:


> Yup, fair game but don't cry when China starts building military bases in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka and gives them strategic weapons



China has already given strategic weapons to pakistan and also is building infra on disputed land. Stop being a hypocrite.

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## GR!FF!N

@Hu Songshan 

notice the posts of Pher and Beidou2020

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## arp2041

Kolaps said:


> Not only just China piss off.
> 
> But also Taiwan, Philippine and Malaysia too!



We are ready to give 4 to all 4

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## Viet

GR!FF!N said:


> @Hu Songshan
> 
> as usual,your countrymen are trolling in this thread.and as usual,you're nowhere to be seen..
> 
> @WebMaster
> 
> kindly control these pathetic trolls...


chinese posters run amok

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## William Hung

VietNam will one day be armed with nuke. 

This is the cheapest and fastest way to contain China. The US know this. 

The US has just signed a nuclear agreement with VietNam but did not ban VN from pursuing domestic nuclear enrichment. This causes criticism from US allies like SK and the UAE (as the US has previously forced them to agree to not pursue enrichment) but the US simply ignored their criticism. 

I believe the US will not directly arm VietNam but will nudge India to assist VietNam in their "civilian" nuclear program and civilian "rocket" development. 

VN, India and US all share the same interest of having China contained. A nuke armed VietNam is the fastest and surest way.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Another interesting thing, I contacted Alexander Huang by email, the Taiwanese man that took the satellite pictures of Vietnam's reclamation work as quoted in that article. He told me that the Satellite Survey Center in Taiwan has the pictures, he doesn't have access to them, he referred me to their website, but they only show a phone number, I think it will not be easy to get those pics. I just replied to him asking him some questions, lets see if he gives me more info.



How come you're so curious about this? and don't you know how to use Google Earth to verify it for yourself? 



Viet said:


> the army should hurry a bit. we are quite late to the party.



What do you mean by "we"? do you even live in VN and pay tax in order to help finance those military procurement?


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## Imran Khan

patrol is cheap these day that is why?


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> How come you're so curious about this? and don't you know how to use Google Earth to verify it for yourself?



Google earth pics are usually years old, not real time and anyway, I have an incompatibility with google earth in my macbook air that I have not been able to fix and google earth quits when I open it. Also, those Taiwanese satellite pics are high resolution.

I'm very curious about this subject because I used to do drawings of how I would expand some of the islands, etc, just a hobby anyway and I was hoping that VN would do something like that, so when I read that VN its actually doing it, it really got me going.


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## Hareeshu IA MBT

All rocket missiles are derived from V2 rocket bombers of German . World first rocket missile cruise missile etc . So be logic even when you troll with ill information. Come let's debate ... let's see who is the troll. No need to trace my IP am from India and using mobile Internet 2G ... its really hard to browse with 2 g network and you thing I want to troll with headache. ??????


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Google earth pics are usually years old, not real time and anyway, I have an incompatibility with google earth in my macbook air that I have not been able to fix and google earth quits when I open it. Also, those Taiwanese satellite pics are high resolution.
> 
> I'm very curious about this subject because I used to do drawings of how I would expand some of the islands, etc, just a hobby anyway and I was hoping that VN would do something like that, so when I read that VN its actually doing it, it really got me going.



Then buy a yacht and check it out with your own eyes. Dont forget to invite me.


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## Carlosa

UAV-02 flying targets for the SU-30MK2 designed and produced in Vietnam.

UAV-02 uses two jet engines; wingspan of 2.8 m; body length of 2.5 m; cruising speed of 250-350 km / h; operational radius of 100 km; maximum altitude of 8,000 meters; weight 38 kg when fully loaded with fuel; maximum operating time of 45 minutes.

Video available in this page:
[VIDEO] Mục tiêu bay cho Su-30MK2 của Không quân Việt Nam | soha.vn














Black Flag said:


> Then buy a yacht and check it out with your own eyes. Dont forget to invite me.



Of course I'll invite you, you are the investor.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> UAV-02 flying targets for the SU-30MK2 designed and produced in Vietnam.
> 
> UAV-02 uses two jet engines; wingspan of 2.8 m; body length of 2.5 m; cruising speed of 250-350 km / h; operational radius of 100 km; maximum altitude of 8,000 meters; weight 38 kg when fully loaded with fuel; maximum operating time of 45 minutes.
> 
> Video available in this page:
> [VIDEO] Mục tiêu bay cho Su-30MK2 của Không quân Việt Nam | soha.vn
> 
> View attachment 139032
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I'll invite you, you are the investor.



No, I don't have any money to invest. I will only be on the yacht to accompany the bikini girls. 

Here are the latest naval point defence SAM system from Rafael, the C-Dome. The missile has a homing radar like you wanted:

Rafael extends Iron Dome C-RAM to the naval domain | Defense Update:


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> No, I don't have any money to invest. I will only be on the yacht to accompany the bikini girls.
> 
> Here are the latest naval point defence SAM system from Rafael, the C-Dome. The missile has a homing radar like you wanted:
> 
> Rafael extends Iron Dome C-RAM to the naval domain | Defense Update:



I was reading about Iron Dome C today and I was thinking, that's a better solution than Barak 1, very small footprint also and 70 km range, not bad. It uses the ship's radar.



Black Flag said:


> No, I don't have any money to invest. I will only be on the yacht to accompany the bikini girls.:



OK enough then, but you need to bring those bikini girls. I like blondes with large pectoral muscles.



Black Flag said:


> No, I don't have any money to invest. I will only be on the yacht to accompany the bikini girls.
> 
> Here are the latest naval point defence SAM system from Rafael, the C-Dome. The missile has a homing radar like you wanted:
> 
> Rafael extends Iron Dome C-RAM to the naval domain | Defense Update:



By the way, Its already a given that VN already ordered the Spyder-MR air defense system from Israel. It will not be announced as usual, something that Israel has no problems with.

35 km range, the system uses a combination of 2 missiles, one is the Python 5 with an infrared seeker and the other is the Derby with an active radar seeker. Both missiles use the Lock on after launch system.

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## Keel

> Modi announced that India will sell four offshore patrol vessels to Vietnam and approve a US$100 million line of credit to the country as soon as possible to help Vietnam obtain the vessels.



So $25 million each
Anyone has the pix?
Vietnamese can pay back India with tons of rice.
Sounds pricey.


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## SrNair

Keel said:


> So $25 million each
> Anyone has the pix?
> Vietnamese can pay back India with tons of rice.
> Sounds pricey.



This is just a start.In future you can see a number of stealth frigate and destroyers in Vietnams Navy .



drug1ove said:


> there's no difference between their ships and paper boats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which one do u prefer？




Whatever it is .In reality they arer buying 4 offshore patrol vessels from India.They are also keen for stealth vessels.But our shipyards is in full order from our Navy.

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## Keel

sreekumar said:


> This is just a start.In future you can see a number of stealth frigate and destroyers in Vietnams Navy .



Vietnames should buy more, a lot more from Indian shipyards

Indan shipyards are wonderful in application of some magic glues to bind the parts and components together 

Indian shipyards import 80% of components | Business Line


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## Sasquatch

GR!FF!N said:


> @Hu Songshan
> 
> as usual,your countrymen are trolling in this thread.and as usual,you're nowhere to be seen..
> 
> @WebMaster
> 
> kindly control these pathetic trolls...



You do know that I can't be on PDF 24/7 I have a life outside of here .

They been banned.



notsuperstitious said:


> @Hu Songshan thats more racist attack. I can say all posters are as arrogant and foul mouthed as chinese... thats generalizing an entire people - also called racism. There are so many chinese posters who engage in open racism against other nationalities that it is a disgrace to your moderation.



Couldn't he same be said for Indians on here ? I have seen many use racial terms like chinks, chinkies, yellow man, banana however I don't generalize. Yes many Chinese who are racist against other nationalities, however hardly an disgrace to my moderation as they are responsible for their own actions.

Racist doesn't matter nationality will get banned, I banned them. Anyone i'm not on PDF 24/7 haven't been on for the last 2 days so I cannot respond to all reports. 

Threads cleaned and they been banned.

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## Carlosa

Another good article to read, good analysis of the close relationship between India and Vietnam:

Modi's overseas ambitions: Vietnam and the reverse “string-of-pearls” to contain China - Firstpost

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## notsuperstitious

Hu Songshan said:


> You do know that I can't be on PDF 24/7 I have a life outside of here .
> 
> They been banned.
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't he same be said for Indians on here ? I have seen many use racial terms like chinks, chinkies, yellow man, banana however I don't generalize. Yes many Chinese who are racist against other nationalities, however hardly an disgrace to my moderation as they are responsible for their own actions.
> 
> Racist doesn't matter nationality will get banned, I banned them. Anyone i'm not on PDF 24/7 haven't been on for the last 2 days so I cannot respond to all reports.
> 
> Threads cleaned and they been banned.



Bro, any indian using any racial abuse must be banned right away too. My only issue with chinese members is that too many of them do it and many of them have survived to be around to make thousands of posts.

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## Sasquatch

notsuperstitious said:


> Bro, any indian using any racial abuse must be banned right away too. My only issue with chinese members is that too many of them do it and many of them have survived to be around to make thousands of posts.



Thanks bro, same I agree, right we are working on perm bans for long time troll/racists/spammers long overdo they will be gone.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> What do you mean by "we"? do you even live in VN and pay tax in order to help finance those military procurement?


we=vietnam or vietnamese, in this context, also, vietnam´s friends such as carlosa and black flag 

the overseas vietnamese send on average $10b home every year, with the rising trend. in the past decade $100b.
a large part of economic recovery of vietnam thanks to this money. you can safety assume some of the money goes to military procurement. so a vietnamese does not need to reside in vietnam to help our army.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another good article to read, good analysis of the close relationship between India and Vietnam:
> 
> Modi's overseas ambitions: Vietnam and the reverse “string-of-pearls” to contain China - Firstpost


bro, in order to get the chinese sleepless, we must have more offensive weapons at sea: subs, stealth frigate and destroyer. our navy is too weak and too defensive at this stage. let hope India can help to close the gap.

as for sub, I read Russia hands over the third Kilo sub to the navy at this year end.


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## pigtaker

Viet said:


> bro, in order to get the chinese sleepless, we must have more offensive weapons at sea: subs, stealth frigate and destroyer. our navy is too weak and too defensive at this stage. let hope India can help to close the gap.
> 
> as for sub, I read Russia hands over the third Kilo sub to the navy at this year end.


sleepless? ha, you sound more and more like your new brother indians, congrats. south asia is where you deserve to belong to,


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## Razia Sultana

pigtaker said:


> sleepless? ha, you sound more and more like your new brother indians, congrats. south asia is where you deserve to belong to,


I agree with what Viet says. If China is not sleepless why Xi Jinping told PLA to be ready for a regional war? Vietnamese are fighters on land and have defeated both US and China in ground battles with very limited resources. They realize their weakness in the waters and working to strengthen it. I am guessing that as soon as the Arihant submarines are commissioned by Indian Navy, it will find a place in South China Sea under Vietnamese flag.

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## Viet

pigtaker said:


> sleepless? ha, you sound more and more like your new brother indians, congrats. south asia is where you deserve to belong to,


what´s wrong of what I said?

we will have 6 subs, while you 60+. you have destroyers, while we none. etc.
It is just an assessment. to get you sleepless, we need to catch up. at the moment, you sleep too well 
No problem for me this thread goes to s asia section if you convince the mods. for rooms for you to troll here.


----------



## Viet

Razia Sultana said:


> I agree with what Viet says. If China is not sleepless why Xi Jinping told PLA to be ready for a regional war? Vietnamese are fighters on land and have defeated both US and China in ground battles with very limited resources. They realize their weakness in the waters and working to strengthen it. I am guessing that as soon as the Arihant submarines are commissioned by Indian Navy, it will find a place in South China Sea under Vietnamese flag.


that will be coooooool. Arihant is a nuclear powered submarine, a mighty beast.
I like this pic:
_



_

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## Razia Sultana

Viet said:


> that will be coooooool. Arihant is a nuclear powered submarine, a mighty beast.
> I like this pic:
> _
> View attachment 142522
> _


I was on vacation and missed the media coverage of his trip.
Arihant has unlimited range. The only limit is the food and water stock for the crew. I think thats the advantage of a nuclear sub.


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## Viet

Razia Sultana said:


> I was on vacation and missed the media coverage of his trip.
> Arihant has unlimited range. The only limit is the food and water stock for the crew. I think thats the advantage of a nuclear sub.


yeah I say again that will be fcking cool if our navy has nuclear powered subs. my dream will come true.
oh...during your vacation, Vietnam, India have signed several agreements in economics and defence. Making deals with us is always a good choice 

Bonding with Vietnam is mutually beneficial


----------



## Viet

that assessment on vietnam submarine force is interesting as it comes from the PRC defence ministry 
I comment (in blue) on their statements (in black).

Commentary: Vietnam’s submarine no way to scare China


We cannot assess the strength of an army just on the basis of one or two weapons. What’s most important in the modern warfare is systematic strength, and what decides the overall combat capability isn’t usually the strongest aspect.
_well, that is true. the overall capacity of an army includes not only military hardware but the fighting skills of its soldiers. we vietnam must return to our root, sharpen our intelligence, exploit enemy weakness, learn how to fight against a numericial superior army. strategy, tactic that matter too and can decide who wins the battle or the outcome of a war. Asymmetric warfare against perceived systematic strength._

　　Although distance will impair the overall advantage possessed by the Chinese PLAN over Vietnam, China’s strength in long-range precise strike and underwater fleet is unparalleled by Vietnam. Once a conflict takes place, the Chinese troops won’t wait for the Vietnamese submarines to block their way.
_that is expected: the PLA will launch missile and arial strikes on our military targets, including Cam Ranh bay, the host of vietnam submarine fleet. our answer must be a missile defence shield and offensive military means to target chinese military targets in retaliation, such as the PLA submarine base near Sanya, Hainan island._

　　Besides, to engage in a submarine battle, Vietnam also needs external support in terms of intelligence, commanding, communication and marine hydrology, which are no less important than the submarine itself. Even the simplest issue of underwater sea-route information may have to take Vietnam quite some time.
_that is undisputed. we are quite late to the party._

　　Vietnam needs to have an objective understanding of its own strength. It used to learn some hard lessons in this regard, so it had better keep a clear mind now.
_ha ha ha...a hint to the battle of Paracels? okay, that is indeed a bitter memory. But I can remember of sea battles when we annihilated the chinese naval fleets. It is better and of china interrest, too, to settle the dispute peacefully and not escalate it. We hold some jokers in the hand that are unknow to PLA generals in Beijing. for example: the recent visit of vietnam PM to India implies some of regional implications, adding an additional layer to the high-stakes poker game._

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## Fattyacids

Viet said:


> that assessment on vietnam submarine force is interesting as it comes from the PRC defence ministry. I comment (in blue) on some of their statements.
> Commentary: Vietnam’s submarine no way to scare China
> 
> 
> We cannot assess the strength of an army just on the basis of one or two weapons. What’s most important in the modern warfare is systematic strength, and what decides the overall combat capability isn’t usually the strongest aspect.
> _well, that is true. the overall capacity of an army includes not only military hardware but the fighting skills of its soldiers. we must return to our root, sharpen our intelligence, exploit enemy weakness, learn how to fight against a numericial superior army. strategy, tactic that matter too and can decide who wins the battle or the outcome of a war. Asymmetric warfare against perceived systematic strength._
> 
> Although distance will impair the overall advantage possessed by the Chinese PLAN over Vietnam, China’s strength in long-range precise strike and underwater fleet is unparalleled by Vietnam. Once a conflict takes place, the Chinese troops won’t wait for the Vietnamese submarines to block their way.
> _that is expected: the PLA will launch missile and arial strikes on our military targets, including Cam Ranh bay, the host of vietnam submarine fleet. our answer must be a missile defenced shield._
> 
> Besides, to engage in a submarine battle, Vietnam also needs external support in terms of intelligence, commanding, communication and marine hydrology, which are no less important than the submarine itself. Even the simplest issue of underwater sea-route information may have to take Vietnam quite some time.
> _that is undisputed._
> 
> Vietnam needs to have an objective understanding of its own strength. It used to learn some hard lessons in this regard, so it had better keep a clear mind now.
> _ha ha ha...a hint to the battle of Paracels? okay, that is indeed a bitter memory. But I can remember of sea battles when we annihilated the chinese naval fleets. It is better for China, too, to settle the dispute peacefully and not escalate it. We hold some jokers in the hand._



Hey Viet, you took offense with the year of monkey post?


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## Viet

Fattyacids said:


> Hey Viet, you took offense with the year of monkey post?


fatty, I´ve learned to differ between a good and a bad guy. no worry, you belong to the first group


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## Fattyacids

Viet said:


> fatty, I´ve learned to differ between a good and a bad guy. no worry, you belong to the first group



Thanks, I reckon that too, we always pull each other legs. mod thought I was trolling you, so I asked.


----------



## Viet

Fattyacids said:


> Thanks, I reckon that too, we always pull each other legs. mod thought I was trolling you, so I asked.


if you review the thread, my response was to a member who constantly uses abused language (you know the usual words when they like to refer vietnam/vietnamese). nobody is perfect, I am not perfect, either. sometimes, in a heated debate, one loses the control and starts shouting. that is not really a problem. But I got a problem with members, who insult and shout on others at the very first post. as chinese, one certainly understands that calling someone as animal of some sorts is a serious offence.

sometimes, too, I wonder, why mods don´t intervene and let the discussion escalating to a troll/insult war.


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## Fattyacids

Viet said:


> if you review the thread, my response was to a member who constantly uses abused language (you know the usual words when they like to refer vietnam/vietnamese). nobody is perfect, I am not perfect, either. sometimes, in a heated debate, one loses the control and starts shouting. that is not really a problem. But I got a problem with members, who insult and shout on others at the very first post. as chinese, one certainly understands that calling someone as animal of some sorts is a serious offence.
> 
> sometimes, too, I wonder, why mods don´t intervene and let the discussion escalating to a troll/insult war.



I didn't follow the entire thread, only saw the funny monkey pic you posted. What puzzled me is mod got the impression I'm embroiled into all this when I was joking with you.

Mod is not 24/7. If you report, he'll take action eventually.


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## Viet

Fattyacids said:


> I didn't follow the entire thread, only saw the funny monkey pic you posted. *What puzzled me is mod got the impression* I'm embroiled into all this when I was joking with you.
> 
> Mod is not 24/7. If you report, he'll take action eventually.


LOL...shit happens what? I will appeal to the mod to relieve you from the stroke 
was it @Hu Songshan that gave you a warning?

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## cnleio

My Vietnamese friends:

I invite u to visit "2014.11.11 China ZhuHai Air Show" live thread, there'r export stuffs Vietnam might has interests.

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> My Vietnamese friends:
> 
> I invite u to visit "2014.11.11 China ZhuHai Air Show" live thread, there'r export stuffs Vietnam might has interests.


vietnam airforce may show interest for su-35 or other russian advanced fighter jets. I don´t think the army is interested to chinese made jets (territorial dispute) or western birds (too expensive).


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> vietnam airforce may show interest for su-35 or other russian advanced fighter jets. I don´t think the army is interested to chinese made jets (territorial dispute) or western birds (too expensive).


Su-35 will attend 2014 ZhuHai air show. ZhuHai Show not only displaying aircrafts also including Tank / Armored vehicle / MRAP / IFV / MLRS / SPH / Artillery / Radar / Missiles / Bombs exported to foreign customers =).

It's a Multiple Defence Exhibition held by China, mainly for weapons export business.

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## MacanJawa

hello can i ask about does vietnam have T-72? i searched in google vietnam only have upgraded t-55 from israeli.. sorry bad english


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> hello can i ask about does vietnam have T-72? i searched in google vietnam only have upgraded t-55 from israeli.. sorry bad english


as far as I know, NO. 
back in 2005, Poland had wanted to supply us with 150 T-72 However, this deal did not go through because we did not have money at that time.



cnleio said:


> Su-35 will attend 2014 ZhuHai air show. ZhuHai Show not only displaying aircrafts also including Tank / Armored vehicle / MRAP / IFV / MLRS / SPH / Artillery / Radar / Missiles / Bombs exported to foreign customers =).
> 
> It's a Multiple Defence Exhibition held by China, mainly for weapons export business.


LOL you talk as if we go on shopping in china.
let assume, we want to buy 100 chinese tanks. would you sell it?


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## Viet

Air defence: S-125 Pechora

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## Viet

some background info why India is hesitant to provide BrahMos cruise missile. the baby can carry a nuclear warhead.
I wonder why India offers the missile at first place if they can´t deliver?

Scroll.in - News. Politics. Culture.

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## Fattyacids

Viet said:


> LOL...shit happens what? I will appeal to the mod to relieve you from the stroke
> was it @Hu Songshan that gave you a warning?



All cleared up. Thanks, but still, I will make you a VAR


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## Viet

Border Guard (dog school)


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## William Hung

Good news for John McCain's fanclub (@Viet):

John McCain Poised to Control Senate's Defense Policy - NationalJournal.com



> *The move will give the hawk an influential avenue to merge his two favorite roles: administration critic and legislative deal maker.*
> 
> *As committee chairman, McCain would have an influential role in spearheading defense policy from Capitol Hill. That includes the Senate's version of the National Defense Authorization Act, an annual bill that outlines defense policy and tells the Pentagon what it can and can't spend money on. He'll also gain a megaphone to voice his frequent opposition to the Obama administration on military and national security issues.*


 

*@Viet, your fantasy about owning F-16s will become a tiny bit more realistic. *


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Good news for John McCain's fanclub (@Viet):
> 
> John McCain Poised to Control Senate's Defense Policy - NationalJournal.com
> 
> 
> 
> *@Viet, your fantasy about owning F-16s will become a tiny bit more realistic. *



Hey, I want no less than 72 F-16's and after the refurbishing in USA, I want them sent to Israel for installation of Israeli AESA radars, ECM equipment and interfacing the aircraft with Python and Derby Israeli air to air missiles, etc.

Got it? Did you hear that McCain, that's my Christmas wish list, don't disappoint me now.

@Black Flag @Viet make sure he gets the message

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Hey, I want no less than 72 F-16's and after the refurbishing in USA, I want them sent to Israel for installation of Israeli AESA radars, ECM equipment and interfacing the aircraft with Python and Derby Israeli air to air missiles, etc.
> 
> Got it? Did you hear that McCain, that's my Christmas wish list, don't disappoint me now.
> 
> @Black Flag @Viet make sure he gets the message



The article said he'll likely get the position next year. So your Christmas wishlist will not be fulfilled. Instead you can spend your Christmas holiday rowing out to the Spratly Islands.

On a more serious note, this could mean that there will be less obstacles for VN to purchase more lethal US weapons than just some unarmed Orions.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> The article said he'll likely get the position next year. So your Christmas wishlist will not be fulfilled. Instead you can spend your Christmas holiday rowing out to the Spratly Islands.
> 
> On a more serious note, this could mean that there will be less obstacles for VN to purchase more lethal US weapons than just some unarmed Orions.



I accept late Christmas gifts, no problem.

Yes, this is a positive change for Vietnam and even better than that, when Obama goes in 2 years, it will either be Hillary (which hates china and is known to be very aggressive) or a republican president, possibly Jeb Bush. China has 2 years left to play, the free ride is over after that.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I accept late Christmas gifts, no problem.
> 
> Yes, this is a positive change for Vietnam and even better than that, when Obama goes in 2 years, it will either be Hillary (which hates china and is known to be very aggressive) or a republican president, possibly Jeb Bush. China has 2 years left to play, the free ride is over after that.



If Hillary wins, it will be interesting. 20 years of marital humiliation and perimenopausal rage will finally be unleased. VN better be on her good side or else Hanoi will be taken back to the stone age.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> If Hillary wins, it will be interesting. 20 years of marital humiliation and perimenopausal rage will finally be unleased. VN better be on her good side or else Hanoi will be taken back to the stone age.



China is the one that needs to worry about Hillary, she wanted a tough position against china in SCS, but Obama overruled her.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> China is the one that needs to worry about Hillary, she wanted a tough position against china in SCS, but Obama overruled her.



Yes that is true. But just remember not to double cross or cheat on her. That will remind her of some shameful past. Now that she has menopause, she will not take it lightly again!!!


----------



## Viet

Fattyacids said:


> All cleared up. Thanks, but still, I will make you a VAR


too litle
offer something that vietnam can accept


----------



## Fattyacids

Viet said:


> too litle
> offer something that vietnam can accept



We'll make the dream of every Vietnamese man come true. Authentic Chinese food, French style villa, and Japanese AV, blue-ray (If relationship with Japan improves, you'll bring the real deal)


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## Viet

Fattyacids said:


> We'll make the dream of every Vietnamese man come true. Authentic Chinese food, French style villa, and Japanese AV, blue-ray (If relationship with Japan improves, you'll bring the real deal)


ha ha ha...try harder my chinese friend. think of an offer that comes close to vietnam goal since ancient times: not money not material things on earth, but respect & equality. a model after european union is thinkable 



Carlosa said:


> Hey, I want no less than 72 F-16's and after the refurbishing in USA, I want them sent to Israel for installation of Israeli AESA radars, ECM equipment and interfacing the aircraft with Python and Derby Israeli air to air missiles, etc.
> 
> Got it? Did you hear that McCain, that's my Christmas wish list, don't disappoint me now.
> 
> @Black Flag @Viet make sure he gets the message


the Republicans just won both chambers of Congress. the chance for Hillary Clinton rises for the bid of presidency. I think both are a good message for vietnam as Hillary and hardcore Republicans such as John McCain are friends of Vietnam.



Black Flag said:


> If Hillary wins, it will be interesting. 20 years of marital humiliation and perimenopausal rage will finally be unleased. VN better be on her good side or else Hanoi will be taken back to the stone age.


you forget it was vietnam that convinced her of the US policy "pivot to Asia".
sure, nobody wants to become enemy of a superpower.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> you forget it was vietnam that convinced her of the US policy "pivot to Asia".
> sure, nobody wants to become enemy of a superpower.



Yes I remembered it and thats why I remind you not to turn back on your words and cheat on her. You know, she has already been cheated once by her husband and she won't take it lightly again if someone else cheats on her. 

She has already warned Australia not to double cross America with China. Thats the attitude of an old angry women with menopause. Be careful bro!


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Yes I remembered it and thats why I remind you not to turn back on your words and cheat on her. You know, she has already been cheated once by her husband and she won't take it lightly again if someone else cheats on her.
> 
> She has already warned Australia not to double cross America with China. Thats the attitude of an old angry women with menopause. Be careful bro!


LOL yes, that is a wise advice, I will keep in mind. in general I would say never underestimate a women. for instance, look at german politics. it is very interesting to observe Angela Merkel crushed all male opponents to become Chancellor, the first women in the german history. Hillary Clinton could learn one or two lessons from Merkel.


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## Viet

two Gepard light frigates HQ-011 & HQ-012 are scheduled to pay friendly visit to Indonesia, Brunei and Phillippines, for the first time ever. On board of the warships are 228 officers and sailors, led by Rear Admiral Nguyen Van Kiem, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Navy.















Chief of Staff of Myanmar Air Force, General Khin Aung Myint visits Vietnam.






two Vietnamese films _Nhung nguoi viet huyen thoai_ (the Legend Makers) and _Banh Mo_ (Dreaming Cake) will screen at the Republic of Korea (RoK)-ASEAN Cinema Weekend set for Jakarta, Indonesia.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> LOL yes, that is a wise advice, I will keep in mind. in general I would say never underestimate a women. for instance, look at german politics. it is very interesting to observe Angela Merkel crushed all male opponents to become Chancellor, the first women in the german history. Hillary Clinton could learn one or two lessons from Merkel.



You havent seen nothing yet my friend. Angela Merkel is nothing compared to Hillary Clinton. If Clinton wins, then what you will see is 20 years of bottled up anger and humiliation finally be unleashed. This unleased beast will be personified as the woman we would call "the first female president of the USA."

My hands are trembling as I type this.


----------



## Viet

Black Flag said:


> You havent seen nothing yet my friend. Angela Merkel is nothing compared to Hillary Clinton. If Clinton wins, then what you will see is 20 years of bottled up anger and humiliation finally be unleashed. This unleased beast will be personified as the woman we would call "the first female president of the USA."
> 
> My hands are trembling as I type this.


I pity you, but it is still 2 years to go.
by the way, do you know what patrol boats will India deliver to vietnam?


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> You havent seen nothing yet my friend. Angela Merkel is nothing compared to Hillary Clinton. If Clinton wins, then what you will see is 20 years of bottled up anger and humiliation finally be unleashed. This unleased beast will be personified as the woman we would call "the first female president of the USA."
> 
> My hands are trembling as I type this.



Hillary is the type of person that can easily start a war with Russia or China.


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## cnleio

@Viet Hey bro, do u need some BrahMos hypersonic missiles from China ? 
(more pics in "2014-China ZhuHai Air Show" thread)

China CX-1





India Brahmos





Russia Kh-61 Ruby


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## BoQ77

Sorry, CX-1 is useless to us because of its bulky design.
Cannot fit to any platform of ours.

In contrast, 3x Brahmos M could mount to Su-30MK2

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Sorry, CX-1 is useless to us because of its bulky design.
> Cannot fit to any platform of ours.
> 
> In contrast, 3x *Brahmos M* could mount to Su-30MK2


yes, but india is hesitant to provide us with the rocket.


----------



## Soryu

cnleio said:


> @Viet Hey bro, do u need some BrahMos hypersonic missiles from China ?
> (more pics in "2014-China ZhuHai Air Show" thread)
> 
> China CX-1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India Brahmos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia Kh-61 Ruby


Was it come to PLA's use !?


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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> Was it come to PLA's use !?


This is Made In China, bro !


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## Soryu

cnleio said:


> This is Made In China, bro !


So it's official in PLA service !?


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## cnleio

Soryu said:


> So it's official in PLA service !?


See more details in 2014-ZhuHai Air Show thread, CX-1 for export to foreign customers.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Sorry, CX-1 is useless to us because of its bulky design.
> Cannot fit to any platform of ours.
> 
> In contrast, 3x Brahmos M could mount to Su-30MK2



By the way, SU-34 (hot on the VN purchase list) can carry 3 Brahmos / Yakhon missiles in one plane.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> By the way, SU-34 (hot on the VN purchase list) can carry 3 Brahmos / Yakhon missiles in one plane.


that is exactly what the airforce needs: a jet carrying supersonic antiship missile.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> that is exactly what the airforce needs: a jet carrying supersonic antiship missile.



I know VN is very interested in that jet and Russia even sent one to VN for demonstration purposes.
I'm waiting for the damn order man. That's the best ground attack plane in the planet other than the big bombers.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I know VN is very interested in that jet and Russia even sent one to VN for demonstration purposes.
> I'm waiting for the damn order man. That's the best ground attack plane in the planet other than the big bombers.


we record a current account surplus of $10b for this year. the government should be able to allocate the money for the jet.
by the way, I got problem to see/post pics. what is wrong?


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> we record a current account surplus of $10b for this year. the government should be able to allocate the money for the jet.
> by the way, I got problem to see/post pics. what is wrong?



Yes, I also have problems with the pics, something wrong in PDF.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> that is exactly what the airforce needs: a jet carrying supersonic antiship missile.



Well, you have to first save your pics, then use upload the file.

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## Viet

I don´t understand why thing takes too long. now at least the russians promise to deliver the next pair of Gepard end of 2016, at the lastest. Can´t wait until our shipyards can build them domestically, if ever. the navy shall seriously considers alteratives elsewhere.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I don´t understand why thing takes too long. now at least the russians promise to deliver the next pair of Gepard end of 2016, at the lastest. Can´t wait until our shipyards can build them domestically, if ever. the navy shall seriously considers alteratives elsewhere.
> 
> View attachment 148763



Its a Russian problem and there are reasons for it. The Russian shipyards were mostly in Ukraine or depending on equipment from Ukraine. When the Soviet Union collapsed, those shipyards also collapsed, so Russia had to restart their own from scratch. The submarine shipyards on the other hand were in Russia and they are doing much better so the sub delivery time is actually ok. They are slowly getting better, but they are going to take a while. Add to that that Russia is doing a big naval build up.

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## Viet

something is in the air: meeting between the VCP and CCP in Da Lat City, Vietnam Nov. 4, 2014
the topic: how to advance the rule of law under the communist leadership?


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## Viet

Conference on defence industry cooperation between Vietnam and Italy, Hanoi November 10. no info about the outcome.

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## Viet

APEC meeting in Beijing: handshake between Xi Jinping and Truong Tan Sang

Xi is as always with his cool face and smile. though he looks friendlier than the other encounter with Shinzo Abe, I bet he was not amused by the news that VN is going ahead with a $10b gas project with America's ExxonMobil. a further step to undermine Chinese 9 now 11 dash line claim. piece by piece.

Vietnam's new Paracels gas project a 'sneak attack,' says academic｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

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## William Hung

Do any of you guys have full subscription access to Jane's Defence? Now that I have a bit more free time, I'm going to try post some more interesting info that you may not have read in the normal Jane's website.

I will only post relevant parts and not the full article due to copy write issue. If some of you already have full subscription to Jane's defence then let me know so that I won't waste my time.

From the article "US eases military sales ban on Vietnam" (Nov 1 2014)



> ... According to US State Department figures, Vietnam's FMF (Foreign military financing) allocation has increased from USD500,000 in 2009 to USD10 million in 2014.
> 
> ...US platforms that Vietnam is known to have expressed interest in include the Lockheed Martin P-3 Orion.... And coastal radar systems produced by Raytheon. * There is also potential for Vietnam to pursue purchases of ex-US Navy* or Coast Guard vessels.



hmmm, what ex-US Navy vessels can there be?

From the full article "AgustaWestland continues success in Asia" (Aug 1 2014)



> ... [AgustaWestland] company officials have also previously hightlighted to IHS Jane's the scope for sales in Indonesia and Vietnam.



Does Vietnam currently operate any AgustaWestland helicopter? are they looking at Agusta as an option for the future Sigma?

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## Viet

a closer look at a Scud at Missile brigade #490.
if one looks at the components: the rocket appears to be brandnew. I bet the army possess the capability to build this type of missile, as some foreign media suggest.

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## pigtaker

Viet said:


> APEC meeting in Beijing: handshake between Xi Jinping and Truong Tan Sang
> 
> Xi is as always with his cool face and smile. though he looks friendlier than the other encounter with Shinzo Abe, I bet he was not amused by the news that VN is going ahead with a $10b gas project with America's ExxonMobil. a further step to undermine Chinese 9 now 11 dash line claim. piece by piece.
> 
> Vietnam's new Paracels gas project a 'sneak attack,' says academic｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
> 
> View attachment 149513


Don't celebrate so early, you will protest us soon for our counter measures.


----------



## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Do any of you guys have full subscription access to Jane's Defence? Now that I have a bit more free time, I'm going to try post some more interesting info that you may not have read in the normal Jane's website.
> 
> I will only post relevant parts and not the full article due to copy write issue. If some of you already have full subscription to Jane's defence then let me know so that I won't waste my time.
> 
> From the article "US eases military sales ban on Vietnam" (Nov 1 2014)


that is nice if you have full access to Janes´s, pls post here. I don´t have it.


Black Flag said:


> hmmm, what ex-US Navy vessels can there be?


maybe this one: Oliver Hazard class
Dàn vũ khí "siêu khủng" ở tàu chiến Oliver Hazard VN sắp mua
















Black Flag said:


> From the full article "AgustaWestland continues success in Asia" (Aug 1 2014)
> Does Vietnam currently operate any AgustaWestland helicopter?
> 
> are they looking at Agusta as an option for the future Sigma?


as far as I know: No
we operate Dauphin and Puma.

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## William Hung

From the article "Myanmar acquires Nexter Nerva LG UGV" (Mar 1, 2014)

Myanmar has purchased 2 Nerva LG wheeled unmanned ground vehicles.

Nexter said they are in negotiations with the Philippines and Vietnam for the potential sale of 12 Nerva LG systems to each.

p. s. I'm too lazy to post pics because the

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## Viet

pigtaker said:


> you viets copy everything from China? I mistook these uniforms as China's 20 years ago.


sure, we do. don´t you know we are your clone

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> From the article "Myanmar acquires Nexter Nerva LG UGV" (Mar 1, 2014)
> 
> Myanmar has purchased 2 Nerva LG wheeled unmanned ground vehicles.
> 
> Nexter said they are in negotiations with the Philippines and Vietnam for the potential sale of 12 Nerva LG systems to each.
> 
> p. s. I'm too lazy to post pics because the


there is a trick to paste a pic:
- upload a file
- choose the file
- paste url, open it
- full image

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> there is a trick to paste a pic:
> - upload a file
> - choose the file
> - paste url, open it
> - full image



I'm on my android tablet and the mobile version of the forum dont have that option. I'm too lazy to dl then upload then delete it from my tablet. You can just google for the images yourself and upload it here.

btw, ignore that guy. Dont feed him, hes just trying to ruin my thread. Just hit the report button.

On topic: According to a 2013 article "LAAD Defence and security 2013"

Lockheed Martin had already anticipated that VN will be getting P-3 Orions. One of their official said they are expecting to manufacture new wings to refurbish VN's secondhand Orions.

It's a newly designed wing that has a new limit of 2.5g instead of the older 1.5g limit of the original wing.

It will increase the operation service life to another 20 years of normal use or 15,000 flight hours.

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## Viet

FNC rifle from Belgium: using NATO 5,56mm bullets, fire rate: 675 a minute, effective range: 250-400m

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Do any of you guys have full subscription access to Jane's Defence? Now that I have a bit more free time, I'm going to try post some more interesting info that you may not have read in the normal Jane's website.
> 
> I will only post relevant parts and not the full article due to copy write issue. If some of you already have full subscription to Jane's defence then let me know so that I won't waste my time.
> 
> From the article "US eases military sales ban on Vietnam" (Nov 1 2014)
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm, what ex-US Navy vessels can there be?
> 
> From the full article "AgustaWestland continues success in Asia" (Aug 1 2014)
> 
> 
> 
> Does Vietnam currently operate any AgustaWestland helicopter? are they looking at Agusta as an option for the future Sigma?



Very interesting to hear this. I had done a post on the MP forum a few weeks ago about the possibility of VN getting the FFG Perry frigates and the Hamilton cutters for the coast guard (there are still 5 or 6 available).

No, VN does not operate the AgustaWestland helicopter.


----------



## Viet

Black Flag said:


> On topic: According to a 2013 article "LAAD Defence and security 2013"
> 
> Lockheed Martin had already anticipated that VN will be getting P-3 Orions. One of their official said they are expecting to manufacture new wings to refurbish VN's secondhand Orions.
> 
> It's a newly designed wing that has a new limit of 2.5g instead of the older 1.5g limit of the original wing.
> 
> It will increase the operation service life to another 20 years of normal use or 15,000 flight hours.


that is nice, but when will the birds arrive in vietnam? and at all, do the articles mention if the P-3 is equipped with weapons?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> a closer look at a Scud at Missile brigade #490.
> if one looks at the components: the rocket appears to be brandnew. I bet the army possess the capability to build this type of missile, as some foreign media suggest.
> View attachment 149569
> 
> View attachment 149570



VN has been building Scuds for many years and they also received tech transfer from North Korea for more advance Scuds.


----------



## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I'm on my android tablet and the mobile version of the forum dont have that option. I'm too lazy to dl then upload then delete it from my tablet. You can just google for the images yourself and upload it here.
> 
> btw, ignore that guy. Dont feed him, hes just trying to ruin my thread. Just hit the report button.
> 
> On topic: According to a 2013 article "LAAD Defence and security 2013"
> 
> Lockheed Martin had already anticipated that VN will be getting P-3 Orions. One of their official said they are expecting to manufacture new wings to refurbish VN's secondhand Orions.
> 
> It's a newly designed wing that has a new limit of 2.5g instead of the older 1.5g limit of the original wing.
> 
> It will increase the operation service life to another 20 years of normal use or 15,000 flight hours.



Great info man !!!!!! Thank you !!!!

Keep sending, I don't have subscription to Jane's.


----------



## William Hung

Viet said:


> that is nice, but when will the birds arrive in vietnam? and at all, do the articles mention if the P-3 is equipped with weapons?



It doesn't say when. Another article said the Orions is expected to be deweaponised. But it's an older article before the US lifted the sanction.



Carlosa said:


> Very interesting to hear this. I had done a post on the MP thread a few weeks ago about the possibility of VN getting the FFG Perry frigates and the Hamilton cutters for the coast guard (there are still 5 or 6 available).
> 
> No, VN does not operate the AgustaWestland helicopter.



The article only said there is a potential sale. It didnt say that there are any offer yet.

That potential AgustaWestland sale might be for a land attack version.

Time for me to get something to eat. Let me know what weapon system or country you want me to look up. I'm planning to also post articles about the Philippines and India.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> It doesn't say when. Another article said the Orions is expected to be deweaponised. But it's an older article before the US lifted the sanction.
> 
> 
> 
> The article only said there is a potential sale. It didnt say that there are any offer yet.
> 
> That potential AgustaWestland sale might be for a land attack version.
> 
> Time for me to get something to eat. Let me know what weapon system or country you want me to look up. I'm planning to also post articles about the Philippines and India.



Actually the AgustaWestland helos are often used for ASW on ships. That's what India uses. This could be tied up to new ships for VN, it could even be for those OPV vessels from India.

Info about Philippines and India sounds great. Japan would be good too. Thanks bro.


----------



## Viet

the airforce recently tested a UAV Swinglet from the company Sensefly (Switzerland) for possible military use. 0.5m length, wide 80cm, powered by lightweight Lithium Polymer, 30 minutes flying time, speed 36km/h, withstand winds of 25km/h, capture 3-D images. nice toy, but nicer would be armed drones.
_













_

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## William Hung

US willing to sell ballistic missile defense system to VN?

From the article

*"The Promise and Limits of Foreign Markets" in National Defense.*
(Oct 2013)



> U.S. manufacturers are the ones to beat in the international arms market. Sales over the past two years have exceeded $60 billion, and there are still no signs that distant runners-up in Russia and Western Europe will catch up any time soon.
> 
> Pentagon contractors, despite their dominance, need their international arms business to grow substantially if they hope to compensate for declining sales to the U.S. military...
> 
> ... The most coveted arms deals are likely to be in Asia. "The only defense budgets in the world that are climbing are in Asia," says Air Force Gen. Herbert Carlisle, commander of air forces at U.S. Pacific Command. "We want to expand that engagement." Military leaders overseas are champions of American manufacturers because they believe they can build closer ties with allies if everyone owns the same equipment.
> 
> ... Missile-defense systems are among the most sought-after U.S. technologies. The United States has sold to allies every major system that the Pentagon developed to protect troops from enemy ballistic missiles. More sales are expected, predicts the Congressional Research Service. "There is a potential for significant further sales if South Korea and Australia decide to emphasize ballistic missile defense in future budgets, or if Southeast Asian countries such as Vietnam, the Philippines or Singapore begin to view ballistic missiles as a threat to their security," states a CRS report.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Very interesting to hear this. I had done a post on the MP forum a few weeks ago about the possibility of VN getting the FFG Perry frigates and the Hamilton cutters for the coast guard (there are still 5 or 6 available).



Yeah some OHP class frigate are up for sales from ex-US navy stocks. Taiwan bought 2 for $175 million plus another $60 million for refurbishment and retrofit of newer weapon system. Overall, still cheaper than the Gepards. 

Both Malaysia and the Philippines has already rejected them, citing the cost. Malaysia also said they aren't familiar with their engines. 



Carlosa said:


> Actually the AgustaWestland helos are often used for ASW on ships. That's what India uses. This could be tied up to new ships for VN, it could even be for those OPV vessels from India.
> 
> Info about Philippines and India sounds great. Japan would be good too. Thanks bro.



I was guessing the official was talking about land attack versions because he was discussing the Bangladeshi and Filipino land version orders before he made that comment. 

But yes, a naval version would make sense. AW159 or maybe NH90 looks good.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yeah some OHP class frigate are up for sales from ex-US navy stocks. Taiwan bought 2 for $175 million plus another $60 million for refurbishment and retrofit of newer weapon system. Overall, still cheaper than the Gepards.
> 
> Both Malaysia and the Philippines has already rejected them, citing the cost. Malaysia also said they aren't familiar with their engines..



I mentioned this to my navy source and he told me that VN would not be interested in the Perry frigates, but they are interested in the Hamilton cutters. We'll see.


----------



## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Regarding the American ABM systems.



Hmmmm I very much doubted. They are just expressing a wish. American ABM systems are extremely expensive. The S-300 / 400 are doing an ok job.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Hmmmm I very much doubted. They are just expressing a wish. American ABM systems are extremely expensive. The S-300 / 400 are doing an ok job.



The important thing to note is the fact that the CRS report has mentioned VN. That report mainly talked about US allies such Australia, SK, the Philippines but it is interesting that they have also included Vietnam in that group. They didn't even mention friendlier countries like Thailand and Indonesia.

Keep in mind that CRS is an advisory group working exclusively for the US govt. They are not a private think tank, they are govt affiliated so everything they say has alot of weight to it.



> The Congressional Research Service (CRS) works exclusively for the United States Congress, providing policy and legal analysis to committees and Members of both the House and Senate, regardless of party affiliation. As a legislative branch agency within the Library of Congress, CRS has been a valued and respected resource on Capitol Hill for more than a century.



Note that US ABM system are not only there for the host country alone, but for the nearby US allies as well. If you look at the map, you'll see why the US would have an interest in installing an ABM system at a strategic location in VN.

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## Carlosa

The Kilo subs are just the first step of Vietnam's submarine arm.

Currently, the Vietnamese navy is very seriously considering to order either the Amur 1650 or the Amur 950 subs from Russia. They are inspecting the submarine details right now.

The Amur 950 (smaller than the Kilo, 58.5 meters) carries AIP and a 10 cell Brahmos / Club launcher and can do a salvo missile launching of 10 missiles in less than 2 minutes. $450 million.

@Viet Feeling happier now?

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> The important thing to note is the fact that the CRS report has mentioned VN. That report mainly talked about US allies such Australia, SK, the Philippines but it is interesting that they have also included Vietnam in that group. They didn't even mention friendlier countries like Thailand and Indonesia.
> 
> Keep in mind that CRS is an advisory group working exclusively for the US govt. They are not a private think tank, they are govt affiliated so everything they say has alot of weight to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that US ABM system are not only there for the host country alone, but for the nearby US allies as well. If you look at the map, you'll see why the US would have an interest in installing an ABM system at a strategic location in VN.



Yes, all that is very revealing. It seems like there is a de facto virtual alliance forming with VN. Very interesting.


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## William Hung

From the article, "Seoul signs defence accord with Warsaw..." 



> Other defence industrial accords have been signed in recent months with Vietnam and Thailand. The former regards Seoul as a potential supplier of artillery systems, helicopters and naval vessels, while the latter signed a USD468 million contract in August to procure a multi-purpose frigate from South Korea's Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME).



SK is also a potential supplier of artillery, helicopters and naval vessels.


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## deltaforce81

Carlosa said:


> VN has been building Scuds for many years and they also received tech transfer from North Korea for more advance Scuds.



Getting tech from the DPRK is nothing to be proud about :/


----------



## Carlosa

deltaforce81 said:


> Getting tech from the DPRK is nothing to be proud about :/



It is if your tech is below them, but keep in mind that they are doing quite well when it comes to ballistic missiles. All those iranian Shahab missiles and the Pakistani ones are actually North Korean missiles built under North Korean license and assistance. They are finishing an ICBM that can reach the US west coast, so you might want to reconsider your thinking about them .

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## William Hung

From the article 

*Intruder alert: Russia's long-range air-defence missiles (Nov 2014)*

you may have already know about this:



> One major change introduced by some late-production examples of the S-300PMU1 was the replacement of the 36D6 and 76N6 target-acquisition radars with a single design, the 96L6E 'Cheese Board'. This was based on the 96L6 surveillance radar developed for the S-400 system, and was used for at least two of the S-300PMU1 systems sold to Vietnam. Like the radars it replaced, the 96L6E can be raised on a mast to improve low-level coverage.
> 
> Existing S-300PMU1 systems can be upgraded to the S-300PMU2 Favorit standard by an in-country modification programme. The hardware does not have to be returned to the manufacturer for this work to be done.



The article has some good write up on the S-400 as well.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> From the article
> 
> *Intruder alert: Russia's long-range air-defence missiles (Nov 2014)*
> 
> you may have already know about this:
> 
> 
> 
> The article has some good write up on the S-400 as well.



VN already upgraded to PMU2 version.

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## Carlosa

In an interview Wednesday, Sen. John McCain, the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he has already discussed a new national-security agenda with fellow Republicans Bob Corker and Richard Burr, the likely incoming chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

“Burr and Corker and I will be working closely together on everything,” McCain said. “For example, arms for Ukraine’s [government], examination of our strategy in the Middle East, our assets with regard to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin in the region, *China’s continued encroachment in the South China Sea.*”
------------------------------------------------------------
China's free ride will be over soon, the final step of this change in the US attitude to china will be in 2 years when the new hard line US president comes into office, either a republican or Mrs. hard core Hillary Clinton.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The Kilo subs are just the first step of Vietnam's submarine arm.
> 
> Currently, the Vietnamese navy is very seriously considering to order either the Amur 1650 or the Amur 950 subs from Russia. They are inspecting the submarine details right now.
> 
> The Amur 950 (smaller than the Kilo, 58.5 meters) carries AIP and a 10 cell Brahmos / Club launcher and can do a salvo missile launching of 10 missiles in less than 2 minutes. $450 million.
> 
> @Viet Feeling happier now?
> 
> View attachment 150015
> View attachment 150016
> 
> View attachment 150067


that is a good news. the navy must urgently increase the number of subs. one squadron at least. I wonder if we decide for the amur class, will the russians deliver us with land-attack cruise missiles?

I bet China puts pressure on Russia and India not to provide Vietnam with long range lethal weapons.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> In an interview Wednesday, Sen. John McCain, the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he has already discussed a new national-security agenda with fellow Republicans Bob Corker and Richard Burr, the likely incoming chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
> 
> “Burr and Corker and I will be working closely together on everything,” McCain said. “For example, arms for Ukraine’s [government], examination of our strategy in the Middle East, our assets with regard to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin in the region, *China’s continued encroachment in the South China Sea.*”
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> China's free ride will be over soon, the final step of this change in the US attitude to china will be in 2 years when the new hard line US president comes into office, either a republican or Mrs. hard core Hillary Clinton.


I read from the news today, the lifting of partial arms embargo is now in place as the proposal has passed the Congress.
I like John McCain

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> US willing to sell ballistic missile defense system to VN?
> 
> From the article
> 
> *"The Promise and Limits of Foreign Markets" in National Defense.*
> (Oct 2013)


unlikely it is going to happen soon unless the conflict in the south china sea gets out of control and slips into an armed confrontation.

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## Viet

_some from the analysis are new, some not._


*MILITARY, SOUTH CHINA SEA, VIETNAM*
*Vietnam’s Naval Upgrades Likely Will Limit but not Deter China in the South China Sea*

*by cogitASIA Staff • September 12, 2014 • 0 Comments
By Zachary Abuza

*
*




*

There has been significant media attention about Vietnam’s acquisition of six Russian-made _Kilo_-class submarines. Two have been delivered and are going through training runs. One is undergoing sea trials in Russia while the last three will be delivered by 2016. The submarines are equipped with SS-N-27 Sizzler anti-ship cruise missiles that have a range of about 190 miles. The $2 billion deal will give Vietnam the largest and most modern submarine fleet in Southeast Asia by 2016.

In addition to the submarines, Vietnam has made significant upgrades to its Soviet-era surface warfare capabilities. These upgrades include four Gepard-class light frigates from Russia with two more on order, four _Molniya_-class corvettes with four more being produced under license in Vietnam, and two _Sigma_-class corvettes on order from the Netherlands.

Vietnam’s missile capabilities are perhaps its greatest deterrent: Hanoi has 40 SS-N-26 Yakhont shore-to-ship cruise missiles, known as “carrier killers,”and is expected to order more. It has negotiated licenses for domestic production of three classes of advanced anti-ship missiles, including the P-5 SS-N-3 Shaddock, P-15 Termit, and Kh-35E/UE Uran SS-N-25 Switchblade. Other anti-ship missiles include French-built Exocets and Russian built SS-N-27 Sizzlers deployed on the _Kilo_-class submarines.

Vietnam’s small but modern air force is configured for anti-ship/maritime operations. Hanoi is pressing the U.S. government to lift its ban on lethal weapons sales so that Vietnam can purchase an unspecified number of Lockheed P-3 Orion anti-submarine warfare planes.

In sum, Vietnam has acquired a significant arsenal to give it a deterrent capability against the Chinese navy in the South China Sea. As one analyst told Reuters: “From the point of view of Chinese assumptions, the Vietnamese deterrent is already at a point where it must be very real.” Quantitatively, the Vietnamese military lags the Chinese military, but it has closed the qualitative gap.

Yet is Vietnam’s arsenal really a deterrent? For a deterrent (conventional or nuclear) to work, it must be credible, proportional, clearly communicated, and target what the other side values.

Vietnam has clearly not hidden anything about its military acquisitions. Even the Reuters report was carried in state-owned media. Hanoi wants Chinese military planners to take notice. And Vietnam’s hardware is focused on anti-naval operations: it knows that the navy is the pride of China, which will propel it to super power status and project its hegemony in the region. The Vietnamese are acutely aware of how vulnerable prestige items such as the Chinese aircraft carrier _Liaoning_ actually are. Yet China places a far greater value on becoming the undisputed hegemon of the western Pacific, and the loss of several vessels may very well be an acceptable cost to it.

Is the threat proportional? Again the answer is yes. If armed conflict erupts, Vietnam will target China’s army and naval forces in the South China Sea. They will presumably not target population centers or threaten to escalate the conflict. Vietnamese military strategy is based on being able to inflict unacceptable damage in a limited period of time. But the quantitative difference between the Chinese and Vietnamese militaries gives Beijing an overwhelming advantage.

Is Vietnam’s deterrent capability credible? Here the answer is mixed. On the one hand, the Vietnamese have a long track record of resisting foreign domination and invasion. Vietnam’s nationalist populace demands a firm stance. Yet while the new hardware is being brought online quickly, few really know how, for example, Vietnam’s submarines have changed their military doctrine. Is their existence alone enough to deter China?

The irony is that people assume that Vietnam’s submarine force is a continuation of the country’s rich tradition of asymmetric warfare. And in a way it is. Chinese military planners really should take notice. No country in Southeast Asia has brought a more formidable arsenal on line so quickly. No other country in the region poses a military challenge to China’s ambitions in the South China Sea, or has demonstrated any willingness to use force to defend its claims.

Yet Vietnam’s asymmetric deterrent capability cannot credibly deter China’s own asymmetric, quasi-militarized operations. Deterrence will not work on measures short of war, including dredging and land reclamation, oil exploration rigs on Vietnam’s continental shelf, unilateral bans on fishing, harassment of Vietnamese oil exploration, or the declaration of an air defense identification zone over the South China Sea. China is too smart, too diplomatically adroit to push too hard. Beijing will push aggressively and then back down when ASEAN begins to coalesce and demand that China signs a binding code of conduct.

Should armed conflict erupt, Vietnam has the capability to inflict damage on China. But could Hanoi inflict enough damage to actually deter it? The answer is simply no, because Vietnam cannot fight a sustained conflict against its large neighbor, either economically or militarily. And that puts a big hole in its deterrent capability. Vietnam could hurt its northern neighbor, but the Chinese military could respond by escalating in ways that could threaten the Vietnamese regime’s hold on power. The dirty secret about deterrence is you have to be willing to follow through and lose what you might value most in the process.

_Dr. Zachary Abuza is principal of Southeast Asia Analytics, and writes on Southeast Asian politics and security issues. Follow him on twitter @ZachAbuza._

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> In an interview Wednesday, Sen. John McCain, the incoming chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he has already discussed a new national-security agenda with fellow Republicans Bob Corker and Richard Burr, the likely incoming chairmen of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
> 
> “Burr and Corker and I will be working closely together on everything,” McCain said. “For example, arms for Ukraine’s [government], examination of our strategy in the Middle East, our assets with regard to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin in the region, *China’s continued encroachment in the South China Sea.*”
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> China's free ride will be over soon, the final step of this change in the US attitude to china will be in 2 years when the new hard line US president comes into office, either a republican or Mrs. hard core Hillary Clinton.



From the article
*"Republican Congress can set defence debate, but budget challenges remain" (Nov 5, 2014)*

"Notably, John McCain is expected to be the SASC chairman and use the position to rail against costly acquisition programmes such as the navy's Littoral Combat Ship and the Pentagon's F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, as well as promote his foreign policy beliefs that often strongly favour military action."





Viet said:


> unlikely it is going to happen soon unless the conflict in the south china sea gets out of control and slips into an armed confrontation.



By the time the SCS slips out of control and into armed confrontation, setting up an ABM system would be too late.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> _some from the analysis are new, some not._
> 
> 
> *MILITARY, SOUTH CHINA SEA, VIETNAM*
> *Vietnam’s Naval Upgrades Likely Will Limit but not Deter China in the South China Sea*
> 
> *by cogitASIA Staff • September 12, 2014 • 0 Comments
> By Zachary Abuza
> 
> *
> *
> View attachment 150181
> *
> 
> There has been significant media attention about Vietnam’s acquisition of six Russian-made _Kilo_-class submarines. Two have been delivered and are going through training runs. One is undergoing sea trials in Russia while the last three will be delivered by 2016. The submarines are equipped with SS-N-27 Sizzler anti-ship cruise missiles that have a range of about 190 miles. The $2 billion deal will give Vietnam the largest and most modern submarine fleet in Southeast Asia by 2016.
> 
> In addition to the submarines, Vietnam has made significant upgrades to its Soviet-era surface warfare capabilities. These upgrades include four Gepard-class light frigates from Russia with two more on order, four _Molniya_-class corvettes with four more being produced under license in Vietnam, and two _Sigma_-class corvettes on order from the Netherlands.
> 
> Vietnam’s missile capabilities are perhaps its greatest deterrent: Hanoi has 40 SS-N-26 Yakhont shore-to-ship cruise missiles, known as “carrier killers,”and is expected to order more. It has negotiated licenses for domestic production of three classes of advanced anti-ship missiles, including the P-5 SS-N-3 Shaddock, P-15 Termit, and Kh-35E/UE Uran SS-N-25 Switchblade. Other anti-ship missiles include French-built Exocets and Russian built SS-N-27 Sizzlers deployed on the _Kilo_-class submarines.
> 
> Vietnam’s small but modern air force is configured for anti-ship/maritime operations. Hanoi is pressing the U.S. government to lift its ban on lethal weapons sales so that Vietnam can purchase an unspecified number of Lockheed P-3 Orion anti-submarine warfare planes.
> 
> In sum, Vietnam has acquired a significant arsenal to give it a deterrent capability against the Chinese navy in the South China Sea. As one analyst told Reuters: “From the point of view of Chinese assumptions, the Vietnamese deterrent is already at a point where it must be very real.” Quantitatively, the Vietnamese military lags the Chinese military, but it has closed the qualitative gap.
> 
> Yet is Vietnam’s arsenal really a deterrent? For a deterrent (conventional or nuclear) to work, it must be credible, proportional, clearly communicated, and target what the other side values.
> 
> Vietnam has clearly not hidden anything about its military acquisitions. Even the Reuters report was carried in state-owned media. Hanoi wants Chinese military planners to take notice. And Vietnam’s hardware is focused on anti-naval operations: it knows that the navy is the pride of China, which will propel it to super power status and project its hegemony in the region. The Vietnamese are acutely aware of how vulnerable prestige items such as the Chinese aircraft carrier _Liaoning_ actually are. Yet China places a far greater value on becoming the undisputed hegemon of the western Pacific, and the loss of several vessels may very well be an acceptable cost to it.
> 
> Is the threat proportional? Again the answer is yes. If armed conflict erupts, Vietnam will target China’s army and naval forces in the South China Sea. They will presumably not target population centers or threaten to escalate the conflict. Vietnamese military strategy is based on being able to inflict unacceptable damage in a limited period of time. But the quantitative difference between the Chinese and Vietnamese militaries gives Beijing an overwhelming advantage.
> 
> Is Vietnam’s deterrent capability credible? Here the answer is mixed. On the one hand, the Vietnamese have a long track record of resisting foreign domination and invasion. Vietnam’s nationalist populace demands a firm stance. Yet while the new hardware is being brought online quickly, few really know how, for example, Vietnam’s submarines have changed their military doctrine. Is their existence alone enough to deter China?
> 
> The irony is that people assume that Vietnam’s submarine force is a continuation of the country’s rich tradition of asymmetric warfare. And in a way it is. Chinese military planners really should take notice. No country in Southeast Asia has brought a more formidable arsenal on line so quickly. No other country in the region poses a military challenge to China’s ambitions in the South China Sea, or has demonstrated any willingness to use force to defend its claims.
> 
> Yet Vietnam’s asymmetric deterrent capability cannot credibly deter China’s own asymmetric, quasi-militarized operations. Deterrence will not work on measures short of war, including dredging and land reclamation, oil exploration rigs on Vietnam’s continental shelf, unilateral bans on fishing, harassment of Vietnamese oil exploration, or the declaration of an air defense identification zone over the South China Sea. China is too smart, too diplomatically adroit to push too hard. Beijing will push aggressively and then back down when ASEAN begins to coalesce and demand that China signs a binding code of conduct.
> 
> Should armed conflict erupt, Vietnam has the capability to inflict damage on China. But could Hanoi inflict enough damage to actually deter it? The answer is simply no, because Vietnam cannot fight a sustained conflict against its large neighbor, either economically or militarily. And that puts a big hole in its deterrent capability. Vietnam could hurt its northern neighbor, but the Chinese military could respond by escalating in ways that could threaten the Vietnamese regime’s hold on power. The dirty secret about deterrence is you have to be willing to follow through and lose what you might value most in the process.
> 
> _Dr. Zachary Abuza is principal of Southeast Asia Analytics, and writes on Southeast Asian politics and security issues. Follow him on twitter @ZachAbuza._



Btw, the Molniya Corvettes are really nice ships. Do you know how many Vietnam intends to field?


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## Soryu

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Btw, the Molniya Corvettes are really nice ships. Do you know how many Vietnam intends to field?


eight only ....


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> By the time the SCS slips out of control and into armed confrontation, setting up an ABM system would be too late.


not being part of a US missile defence shield, because we will need to enter an military alliance with America otherwise. we don´t want to be the first who provokes China. what we need is an independent missile shield, best with a fleet of aegis destroyers, such as equipped by standard Missile 3 aboard of the USS destroyer Benfold. The US navy deploys such two ships to protect Japan.

the question: is America willing to provide us with such means?


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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Btw, the Molniya Corvettes are really nice ships. Do you know how many Vietnam intends to field?


8 in total. the navy considers to buy 4 more.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> 8 in total. the navy considers to buy 4 more.



An impressive amount ! That will effectively make Vietnam the strongest naval power in continental south east asia. Over Thailand.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> not being part of a US missile defence shield, because we will need to enter an military alliance with America otherwise. we don´t want to be the first who provokes China. what we need is an independent missile shield, best with a fleet of aegis destroyers, such as equipped by standard Missile 3 aboard of the USS destroyer Benfold. The US navy deploys such two ships to protect Japan.
> 
> the question: is America willing to provide us with such means?
> View attachment 150330



S-300 / 400 is good enough to intercept short and medium range ballistic missiles which is what china most likely will use.


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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> An impressive amount ! That will effectively make Vietnam the strongest naval power in continental south east asia. Over Thailand.



Not really, Singapore is number one in both naval and air force (for now).

VN is developing a domestic follow on to the Molniya class, that's why they are leaving it at 8 units.


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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Not really, Singapore is number one in both naval and air force.



Singapore? They would not last in any battle, to be honest. Due to it being a small island, in a war, it would collapse quickly. In WWII, Singapore was considered the 'Bastion of British Power in the Orient', it fielded impressive harbor guns. Yet it collapsed within 7 days to the Imperial Japanese 8th Army led by Gen. Yamashita Tomoyuki, supported by the Imperial Elite Guard 18th and 5th Division.

Singapore was defended by the British Army's Malaya Command, supported by the British 3rd Corp; overall they fielded a force of some 85,000; and supported by the British Navy's Oriental Squadron (232).

In 7 days they were completely annihilated.

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Singapore? They would not last in any battle, to be honest. Due to it being a small island, in a war, it would collapse quickly. In WWII, Singapore was considered the 'Bastion of British Power in the Orient', it fielded impressive harbor guns. Yet it collapsed within 7 days to the Imperial Japanese 8th Army led by Gen. Yamashita Tomoyuki, supported by the Imperial Elite Guard 18th and 5th Division.
> 
> Singapore was defended by the British Army's Malaya Command, supported by the British 3rd Corp; overall they fielded a force of some 85,000; and supported by the British Navy's Oriental Squadron (232).
> 
> In 7 days they were completely annihilated.



You might be right, but checkout what they have now; in terms of naval and air assets they are number one today. How well they would fight or the outcome, particularly in a ground war, that's another story.

Top navy and air force. Ground army is small, that's another story.

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> You might be right, but checkout what they have now; in terms of naval and air assets they are number one today. How well they would fight or the outcome, particularly in a ground war, that's another story.
> 
> Top navy and air force. Ground army is small, that's another story.


yes, all agree, their budget for defense is very high. (highest in ASEAN)

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## NiceGuy

*US amends regulations on weapons exports to Vietnam*
Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 16:28:02






Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh (R) and US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.
(VOVworld) – The US State Department has amended the US International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) on Monday to reflect a change in US policy on exports to Vietnam, implementing a decision to partially lift a decades-old arms embargo. *The US may now export lethal and non-lethal weapons and defense services to Vietnam* on a case-by-case basis in support of maritime security and domain awareness. 
US amends regulations on weapons exports to Vietnam | News - VOV5

Hope to see US fighters like F-16, F-35 in VN soon. F-16 have cheaper maintenance cost than Su-30, it will become a deadly weapon in our hand

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> S-300 / 400 is good enough to intercept short and medium range ballistic missiles which is what china most likely will use.


our s-300/400 and other missiles are land based defence shield and can destroy arial threats when they approach vietnamese mainland and come within range. our shield would never be capable to take down all incoming enemy missiles. 

what we are missing is a sea based missile shield, that acts a prewarning system and destroys a part of targets midair. frigates and destroyers with sophisticated airdefence systems are the best means.


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> *US amends regulations on weapons exports to Vietnam*
> Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 16:28:02
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh (R) and US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.
> (VOVworld) – The US State Department has amended the US International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) on Monday to reflect a change in US policy on exports to Vietnam, implementing a decision to partially lift a decades-old arms embargo. *The US may now export lethal and non-lethal weapons and defense services to Vietnam* on a case-by-case basis in support of maritime security and domain awareness.
> US amends regulations on weapons exports to Vietnam | News - VOV5
> 
> Hope to see US fighters like F-16, F-35 in VN soon. F-16 have cheaper maintenance cost than Su-30, it will become a deadly weapon in our hand


hey...nice guy, welcome back. where have you been?


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> hey...nice guy, welcome back. where have you been?


I got 1-month ban


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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Singapore? They would not last in any battle, to be honest. Due to it being a small island, in a war, it would collapse quickly. In WWII, Singapore was considered the 'Bastion of British Power in the Orient', it fielded impressive harbor guns. Yet it collapsed within 7 days to the Imperial Japanese 8th Army led by Gen. Yamashita Tomoyuki, supported by the Imperial Elite Guard 18th and 5th Division.
> 
> Singapore was defended by the British Army's Malaya Command, supported by the British 3rd Corp; overall they fielded a force of some 85,000; and supported by the British Navy's Oriental Squadron (232).
> 
> In 7 days they were completely annihilated.


now you are provoking our english friend @mike2000


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> I got 1-month ban


oh why? too much trolling on our chinese friends here on the forum


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> oh why? too much trolling on our chinese friends here on the forum


I just try to tell the truth like PLA is corrupted, useless army, VN will become stronger wt F-16 fighter ...etc and they dont wanna heard


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## Viet

the Gepards arrival at 
*Tanjung Priok, Jakarta*

*



*

*



*

*



*

*



*

*



*


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## Viet

not sure if this is already posted
VN self produced 105mm gun (US origin), range 11.5 km, firing rate 10 a minute.

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## Viet

...and a wide range of artillery guns


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> that is nice if you have full access to Janes´s, pls post here. I don´t have it.
> 
> maybe this one: Oliver Hazard class
> Dàn vũ khí "siêu khủng" ở tàu chiến Oliver Hazard VN sắp mua
> 
> View attachment 149594
> 
> View attachment 149597
> 
> View attachment 149595



Your dream may come true. Well you can't get free Aegis, but if you lobby John McCain enough, he may consider transferring this OHP class frigate for free.

They have already offered to transfer, by grant, 2 each to Thailand and Mexico. They only need to pay for the refurbishment and transfer cost (~$30-40 million).

Would that satisfy your fantasy?

Even if the US charges the full price, it would still only be $120 million each including refurbishment.

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## William Hung

*Indodefence 2014: Russia's Vympel sees Southeast Asian interest for Scorpion, Katran missile boats*

By Ridzwan Rahmat, Jane's Navy International (Dec 1, 2014)



> Vympel is seeing demand for smaller platforms with UAV capabilities in the Southeast Asia
> 
> The Russian company is embarking on a programme to market its Scorpion and Katran platforms in the region...
> 
> ... "Another demand that we are seeing is for the usage of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) from onboard naval and coastguard vessels. What we are introducing are variants of the Scorpion and Katran boats that can embark UAV's similar in size to the Camcopter S-100 that is going to be used by a navy in this region", Chikayev added that the UAVs can be deployed for maritime surveillance, reconnaissance, and search and rescue (SAR) missions.
> 
> According to Chikayev, the company has been approached by "at least two" Southeast Asian navies and coast guard services but declined to reveal what these countries are.
> 
> *COMMENT*
> 
> At the Singapore Airshow in February 2014, Austrian firm Schiebel confirmed that it was in talks with the VietnamPeople's Navy (VPN) to supply the Camcopter S-100 rotary-wing unmanned aerial vehicle. Vympel's hints of its platform being configured to operate the UAV could be an indication that the VPN is looking to acquire the Scorpion and Katran boats. Vietnam is under pressure to improve its maritime surveillance capabilities especially after the May 2014 skirmish with China in the South China Sea.
> 
> Credit: Ridzwan Rahmat Jakarta
> 
> Copyright © IHS Global Limited, 2014



Jane's analyst thinks those Camcopter S-100 orders are for these smaller size boats and not for the bigger Sigma.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> our s-300/400 and other missiles are land based defence shield and can destroy arial threats when they approach vietnamese mainland and come within range. our shield would never be capable to take down all incoming enemy missiles.
> 
> what we are missing is a sea based missile shield, that acts a prewarning system and destroys a part of targets midair. frigates and destroyers with sophisticated airdefence systems are the best means.



Not really, ballistic missiles come from the top and a land based system is what Vietnam needs. For a country like Japan is the other way around, the navy makes a shield against missiles coming from the direction of China (still coming from the top, but from china's direction), but for Vietnam, where the missiles will come from the chinese mainland (from the second artillery corps), a naval shield would be totally unnecessary and most inefficient at the same time. The ships would also be more vulnerable. @Nihonjin1051 What do you think?

S-300 / 400 can intercept a lot of missiles actually, but their capability to intercept is determined by how many fire control radars the battery has and by how many TEL's with interceptor missiles. Its up to Vietnam to buy enough of those 2 to intercept as many as VN wants.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> not sure if this is already posted
> VN self produced 105mm gun (US origin), range 11.5 km, firing rate 10 a minute.
> 
> View attachment 150782



That gun is located in a truck, VN is trying to place artillery on trucks in order to make them mobile (fire and change position right away in order to avoid the counter battery fire).










View attachment 150833

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## Carlosa

@Nihonjin1051

I've been trying to reply on the thread about the corpses, but the reply button doesn't show and I see at the end of the page a label that says that I don't have sufficient privileges to reply there. Its the first time I have this problem. Do you know what's going on? Can you reply on that thread?
Never mind, I just noticed that the thread has a label that says:
Thread Status: Not open for further replies.

I guess we got into heavy stuff. Sorry about your grandpa by the way.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Your dream may come true. Well you can't get free Aegis, but if you lobby John McCain enough, he may consider transferring this OHP class frigate for free.
> 
> They have already offered to transfer, by grant, 2 each to Thailand and Mexico. They only need to pay for the refurbishment and transfer cost (~$30-40 million).
> 
> Would that satisfy your fantasy?
> 
> Even if the US charges the full price, it would still only be $120 million each including refurbishment.


$40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> $40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
> I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.



At that price can buy by the dozen.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> $40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
> I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.



Agree, and US has been asking for more port visits.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Your dream may come true. Well you can't get free Aegis, but if you lobby John McCain enough, he may consider transferring this OHP class frigate for free.
> 
> They have already offered to transfer, by grant, 2 each to Thailand and Mexico. They only need to pay for the refurbishment and transfer cost (~$30-40 million).
> 
> Would that satisfy your fantasy?
> .



No, only an AEGIS can satisfy Viet's fantasy, that's why he wants a naval shield against ballistic missiles, because those are AEGIS ships.

See @Viet we already know you.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Not really, ballistic missiles come from the top and a land based system is what Vietnam needs. For a country like Japan is the other way around, the navy makes a shield against missiles coming from the direction of China (still coming from the top, but from china's direction), but for Vietnam, where the missiles will come from the chinese mainland (from the second artillery corps), a naval shield would be totally unnecessary and most inefficient at the same time. The ships would also be more vulnerable. @Nihonjin1051 What do you think?
> 
> S-300 / 400 can intercept a lot of missiles actually, but their capability to intercept is determined by how many fire control radars the battery has and by how many TEL's with interceptor missiles. Its up to Vietnam to buy enough of those 2 to intercept as many as VN wants.


bro, I think of assaults in the form of balistic and cruise missiles coming from the south china sea, from chinese subs and destroyers.
and how to capture them mid course at an early stage.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Agree, and US has been asking for more port visits.


yes, that is what the US navy wants: regular access to Cam Ranh bay or other ports. they want to observe chinese activities in the south china sea, especially to keep an eye on chinese nuclear subs. the nuclear powered subs pose a serious threat to America security.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> $40m for a 4,100 t frigate sounds ok and reasonable to me. how to convince John McCain?
> I suggest Vietnam offers more port visits to the US navy. at present, we limit the visit one per year. that is rediculous.



How to convince McCain? send some money to me and I'll come up with a plan to convince him. 

Keep in mind those OHP class frigates only runs on gas turbine engines. But oil price has gone down anyway. 



Carlosa said:


> No, only an AEGIS can satisfy Viet's fantasy, that's why he wants a naval shield against ballistic missiles, because those are AEGIS ships.
> 
> See @Viet we already know you.



What do you think of those Russian Scorpion and Katran missile boats? do you think the analyst is right in predicting that VN is likely one of the customer? 

I'm not a fan of those tiny boats. And they probably cost more than $40 million. 

Better to buy that OHP class frigate with 64 Barak-1 or Barak-8.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bro, I think of assaults in the form of balistic and cruise missiles coming from the south china sea, from chinese subs and destroyers.
> and how to capture them mid course at an early stage.



Well, that would be different, but that would not be ballistic missiles, China only have ballistic missiles at sea in subs, but those are nuclear missiles. Attacks with conventional ballistic missiles could only come from the mainland.

From the sea, it could only be cruise missiles, but frankly, that's unlikely to work, those AEGIS ships in the middle of the ocean would be great easy targets for chinese stand off missiles and submarines. The chinese would first take out the ships, and then attack the mainland.

Also, it would not make sense cost wise. One AEGIS destroyer is 2 billion, one S-300 battery is $200 million, S-400 I think is 300 or 400 million, so you can have many batteries for the price of one ship and those land batteries are much more easier to defend than the ships.

Another reason that can also makes that approach unlikely is that Chinese ships only have cruise missiles with a range of no more than 300-400 km. I don't think they will use that approach very often because those ships would be vulnerable to the Viet air force (It would be ok from subs, but if that way, they can do it very near the coast, so the defense has to be in land).

The long range cruise missile attacks would come from H-6K bombers and from land. Those H-6K bombers could operate in the South china sea, that would be a reasonable option for them, but still, its better to have the defenses on land, because of the reasons earlier.

He he, sorry, no AEGIS ships just yet.  But you can have some nice Amur 950 subs.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> How to convince McCain? send some money to me and I'll come up with a plan to convince him.
> 
> Keep in mind those OHP class frigates only runs on gas turbine engines. But oil price has gone down anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think of those Russian Scorpion and Katran missile boats? do you think the analyst is right in predicting that VN is likely one of the customer?
> 
> I'm not a fan of those tiny boats. And they probably cost more than $40 million.
> 
> Better to buy that OHP class frigate with 64 Barak-1 or Barak-8.



As I understand, VN is developing a domestic ship, larger and better than the Molniya, that's why they are keeping the Molniya numbers at just 8.

Yes, those boats are a bit too small.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> As I understand, VN is developing a domestic ship, larger and better than the Molniya, that's why they are keeping the Molniya numbers at just 8.
> 
> Yes, those boats are a bit too small.



hmm you're right. I read that S-100 article again and the company rep clearly said they would be integrated with the Sigma. 

I don't know why that analyst think it could be for those Scorpion and Katran. 

So who could these 2 navies be? 

btw, S-300 and S-400 has very very limited capabilities against BM. BMD is what Russia is developing the S-500 for.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> hmm you're right. I read that S-100 article again and the company rep clearly said they would be integrated with the Sigma.
> 
> I don't know why that analyst think it could be for those Scorpion and Katran.
> 
> So who could these 2 navies be?
> 
> btw, S-300 and S-400 has very very limited capabilities against BM. BMD is what Russia is developing the S-500 for.



S-300 and S-400 are capable against ballistic missiles of a range up to 3500 km which is what china will most likely use; they are not going to use their limited numbers of ICBM's which are dedicated to nuclear warheads anyway. The S-500 is for the whole defense against any type of missiles including ICBM's, even satellites, etc. That one is tops, but is not for export, only for Russia. I think not many options to get better than S-300 and S-400 for VN, maybe the Israeli Arrow. BMD defense is a very small club and USA is not going to provide such systems to VN at this point, so I think there is no other options.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> S-300 and S-400 are capable against ballistic missiles of a range up to 3500 km which is what china will most likely use;



I've read that S-400 can only intercept BM in their terminal phase and that the interception range is really short (well under 80km). That means the defense shield is really limited depending on how many missile batteries you can spread out.

The American ABM like the SM-3 can do mid-course interception. 



Carlosa said:


> I think not many options to get better than S-300 and S-400 for VN, maybe the Israeli Arrow. BMD defense is a very small club and USA is not going to provide such systems to VN at this point, so I think there is no other options.



CRS has already talked about selling American BMD system to VietNam. But no doubt there will be strings attached, like joining the alliance or becoming more closer, etc.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I've read that S-400 can only intercept BM in their terminal phase and that the interception range is really short (well under 80km). That means the defense shield is really limited depending on how many missile batteries you can spread out.
> 
> The American ABM like the SM-3 can do mid-course interception.
> 
> 
> 
> CRS has already talked about selling American BMD system to VietNam. But no doubt there will be strings attached, like joining the alliance or becoming more closer, etc.



Yes, correct, terminal phase only. AEGIS is way expensive for VN with those ships and they are vulnerable anyway. The land based AEGIS Ashore is the same as the naval version, that would be better for VN, Japan is thinking about buying it. This is all crazy expensive stuff for VN in my opinion. Barak 8 is also supposed to have some BMD capability. I don't trust Patriot as much as AEGIS and Japan seems to think so also, that's why they want to get AEGIS Ashore.

I'm really surprised about US willing to sell BMD systems to VN, I think not likely the government will approve that so soon, but would be nice. Actually, I think Arrow 3 maybe the most cost effective solution for mid course interception.


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> How to convince McCain? send some money to me and I'll come up with a plan to convince him.


LOL no, you get no money from me, earn your money by yourself, dude.
what I mean is we offer more port visits to the US navy and get military hardware in return.


Black Flag said:


> Keep in mind those OHP class frigates only runs on gas turbine engines. But oil price has gone down anyway.


if you haven´t noticed, in Asia we are just behind China and India in terms of oil reserves: 4.4 billions barrels as of January, 2014. And we have discovered a new gas field recently. so that should not be a problem to operate gas powered vessels.

Vietnam - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> I've read that S-400 can only intercept BM in their terminal phase and that the interception range is really short (well under 80km). That means the defense shield is really limited depending on how many missile batteries you can spread out.
> 
> The American ABM like the SM-3 can do mid-course interception.


okay, thank for the clarification. exactly what I suspect: we have a gap in air defence.


Black Flag said:


> CRS has already talked about selling American BMD system to VietNam. But no doubt there will be strings attached, like joining the alliance or becoming more closer, etc.


here is the opinion that reflects the concern in vietnam what happens if we join a US military alliance?

The Absurd Idea of an Alliance with Vietnam | The American Conservative

_From our perspective, an alliance with Vietnam would be worse than worthless. It would be actively harmful. In exchange for promising to defend Vietnam, the U.S. would get the opportunity to support Vietnamese territorial claims in disputed waters, and it would have the added benefit of being tied to yet another abusive dictatorship whose repression it would be supporting one way or another. 

On top of all that, it wouldn’t even make the region more secure. Beijing would react very badly to the creation of such an alliance, which would undeniably be directed against China, and it would probably expose Vietnam to more Chinese provocations and threats rather than fewer. Allying with Vietnam is the sort of short-sighted and irresponsible thing that people who hate realists think that realists would want to do._

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> if you haven´t noticed, in Asia we are just behind China and India in terms of oil reserves: 4.4 billions barrels as of January, 2014. And we have discovered a new gas field recently. so that should not be a problem to operate gas powered vessels.
> 
> Vietnam - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)



Wow! I didn't know VN had so much oil; some bro that I know might ended up getting his wish for destroyers sooner than expected.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, correct, terminal phase only. AEGIS is way expensive for VN with those ships and they are vulnerable anyway. The land based AEGIS Ashore is the same as the naval version, that would be better for VN, Japan is thinking about buying it. This is all crazy expensive stuff for VN in my opinion. Barak 8 is also supposed to have some BMD capability. I don't trust Patriot as much as AEGIS and Japan seems to think so also, that's why they want to get AEGIS Ashore.
> 
> I'm really surprised about US willing to sell BMD systems to VN, I think not likely the government will approve that so soon, but would be nice. Actually, I think Arrow 3 maybe the most cost effective solution for mid course interception.


ha ha ha...you are no fan of aegis, but maybe you are right: arrow system seems to be suitable for our needs: a range of 100km sounds good to me.
but I guess not too easy to convince Israel to deliver us with the system.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...you are no fan of aegis, but maybe you are right: arrow system seems to be suitable for our needs: a range of 100km sounds good to me.
> but I guess not too easy to convince Israel to deliver us with the system.



Actually, I think no problem to get it from Israel, 12 million per missile plus the radars, etc. Israel will sell anything for money, no worries there (they are still helping the chinese against US wishes).

Keep in mind also that you don't have to cover the whole country against ballistic missiles, just the important targets, which means that most of the country does not need cover. Ballistic missiles would only be used against the main cities, important military and economic targets, so actually, having enough S-300 / 400 batteries to cover the Hanoi / Haiphong, Danang and HCMC areas and a few other spots such as Cam Ranh bay is already enough and enough batteries of S-300 / 400 batteries should do the job.

Have nothing against AEGIS, its just that its way expensive (Patriot too), Any of those systems is billions.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> here is the opinion that reflects the concern in vietnam what happens if we join a US military alliance?
> 
> The Absurd Idea of an Alliance with Vietnam | The American Conservative
> 
> _From our perspective, an alliance with Vietnam would be worse than worthless. It would be actively harmful. In exchange for promising to defend Vietnam, the U.S. would get the opportunity to support Vietnamese territorial claims in disputed waters, and it would have the added benefit of being tied to yet another abusive dictatorship whose repression it would be supporting one way or another.
> 
> On top of all that, it wouldn’t even make the region more secure. Beijing would react very badly to the creation of such an alliance, which would undeniably be directed against China, and it would probably expose Vietnam to more Chinese provocations and threats rather than fewer. Allying with Vietnam is the sort of short-sighted and irresponsible thing that people who hate realists think that realists would want to do._



Who the heck is "The American Conservative"? I dont know who they are. 

The group that talked about selling BMD to VietNam is the CRS. Do you know who CRS is? 

Check out this bill here. Look carefully to see who helped to author the bill (hint: CRS):

S.12 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Naval Vessel Transfer Act of 2013 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress



Viet said:


> LOL no, you get no money from me, earn your money by yourself, dude.
> what I mean is we offer more port visits to the US navy and get military hardware in return.



You are rich and even have spare money to play around with stocks. I'm only a poor student, and I need money to pay Jane's subscription. 

Here is a fact about the OHP class: They have a higher survivability standard of 2 while the newer LCS has a lower survivability standard of 1+.

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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> okay, thank for the clarification. exactly what I suspect: we have a gap in air defence.
> 
> here is the opinion that reflects the concern in vietnam what happens if we join a US military alliance?
> 
> The Absurd Idea of an Alliance with Vietnam | The American Conservative
> 
> _From our perspective, an alliance with Vietnam would be worse than worthless. It would be actively harmful. In exchange for promising to defend Vietnam, the U.S. would get the opportunity to support Vietnamese territorial claims in disputed waters, and it would have the added benefit of being tied to yet another abusive dictatorship whose repression it would be supporting one way or another.
> 
> On top of all that, it wouldn’t even make the region more secure. Beijing would react very badly to the creation of such an alliance, which would undeniably be directed against China, and it would probably expose Vietnam to more Chinese provocations and threats rather than fewer. Allying with Vietnam is the sort of short-sighted and irresponsible thing that people who hate realists think that realists would want to do._


We wont ally wt US ,too. We just need their weapons and support. Our men r goot at fighting, we dont need any foreigners to fight for us.

Good news is that US will sell lethal weapon to Vn soon.


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## NiceGuy

*Can increase the enlistment age to 27*

Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh said the draft law amending Military Service proposed to increase the maximum enlistment age 2 years. / Officers and employees must also enlist children as farmers


Presentation of the Report on the bill on military service (as amended) and the National Assembly pm 3/11, Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh said the duration of military service in peacetime of commissioned officers and soldiers accordance with the provisions of the current Act has revealed many shortcomings, failing to meet the requirements of building the people's army and national defense missions in the new situation.






*Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh. Photo: VNA.*

So, the bill stipulated deadline agreed to serve in the army in time of peace of commissioned officers and soldiers of 24 months in order to ensure enough time training, combat readiness to meet the requirements of building military and national defense in the new situation; reduce the level of damage to people and weapons to combat occurs.

According to General Phung Quang Thanh, Vietnam People's Army is building Navy, Non - Air Force Army Navy and some straight up with more modern weapons and technical equipment and high technology.

Therefore, the team should have enough time to raise the level of training. In addition to performing the tasks of training, combat readiness, the military must also perform many other important tasks assigned by the Party and State as: Salvage and rescue, disaster prevention, remedial strategy War, mass mobilization work ... has occupied a significant portion of the training period the team.

"The current law stipulated deadline of two different active service (18 months and 24 months), is not really fair, ideological influence of non-commissioned officers and soldiers, especially for those serving Active 24 months. Every year, the Ministry of Defence must also organize recruitment, demobilization two tranches, costly material and local time ", General Thanh said.

_*A new project for military service law amendment changes the time this is called citizen age for enlistment. *_Military Service Law applicable regulations known age citizens in peacetime enlistment from full 18 to 25 years should the annual percentage of citizens with college degrees or higher military enlistment on low.

On the other hand, some citizens are preferred to postpone enlistment to college, after graduating the majority has expired enlistment age. So, the bill provides for additional enlistment age in time of peace to all citizens 27 years of age for study programs of higher education has been postponed enlistment.

"Military Service Law does not specify operating time of enlistment of citizens should not take the initiative to arrange learning time and labor. Bill on specified times to call citizens to enlist be done in February or March each year, "Defence Minister said.

Military Service Law provisions applicable object postpone enlistment during peacetime so broad citizen graduation rate colleges and universities to serve in the army is not much. Some citizens are taking advantage of the postponement of enlistment to evade military service performed ...

So, the bill has provisions only for those suspended are high school students, college students formal training and deregulation of the postponement of citizens "Go build economic zone The new first three years. "

To ensure policy with Agent Orange, the bill stipulated additional deferred enlistment during peacetime for a child of Agent Orange impaired working capacity by 81% or more.





*Enlistment age could rise to 27 (Artwork)*



Theo: Nông học - tin: Can increase the enlistment age to 27

Seem like we want a well preparation for the next war (if happen) .

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Who the heck is "The American Conservative"? I dont know who they are.
> 
> The group that talked about selling BMD to VietNam is the CRS. Do you know who CRS is?
> 
> Check out this bill here. Look carefully to see who helped to author the bill (hint: CRS):
> 
> S.12 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Naval Vessel Transfer Act of 2013 | Congress.gov | Library of Congress
> 
> 
> 
> You are rich and even have spare money to play around with stocks. I'm only a poor student, and I need money to pay Jane's subscription.
> 
> Here is a fact about the OHP class: They have a higher survivability standard of 2 while the newer LCS has a lower survivability standard of 1+.



CRS = congressional research service

I could not find the one that talks about selling BMD systems to vn, do you have the link?


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> You are rich and even have spare money to play around with stocks. I'm only a poor student, and I need money to pay Jane's subscription.
> .



Oh really? Then Viet should contribute some money towards those AEGIS destroyers, otherwise is just cheap talk, ha ha.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Here is a fact about the OHP class: They have a higher survivability standard of 2 while the newer LCS has a lower survivability standard of 1+.



Oh my God, an small missile boat has more firepower than an LCS, so that's not much of a reference.

In my opinion the Perry class ships are quite ok once an upgrade is done. The main issue for VN is having to absorb all the logistical impact of having to deal with a lot of American systems and that's not a little thing, but the price is right.

Navy to Decommission 7 Frigates, MCM and SSN. - USNI News

7 available by the end of 2014.


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## Carlosa

Another interesting article to read:

US links arms with Vietnam in maritime security fight | StratRisks


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> CRS = congressional research service
> 
> I could not find the one that talks about selling BMD systems to vn, do you have the link?



It's in the document "Ballistic Missile Defence in the Asia-pacific Region: Cooperation and Opposition" in page 21.

Congressional Research Service Reports on Nuclear Weapons



> Foreign Military Sales The United States has sold to allies several types of BMD capabilities: Aegis tracking software, PAC-2 and PAC-3 batteries, and SM-3 Block IA interceptors (the last to Japan only). There is a potential for significant further sales if South Korea and Australia decide to emphasize BMD in future budgets, or if Southeast Asian countries such as Vietnam, the Philippines or Singapore begin to view ballistic missiles as a threat to their security. Even if these countries do not participate in a regional BMD system, some analysts have suggested that “reliance of non-U.S. assets on American hardware and software in systems like Aegis goes a long way toward syncing allied capabilities and interoperability [at the technical level].”82 A potential issue for Congress is what role, other than those already defined in statute; Congress would play a key role in overseeing Foreign Military Sales (FMS) of these BMD systems. Outlook for Near Term As the executive branch further develops U.S. BMD policy in the Asia-Pacific region, Congress has the opportunity to shape this development. The budget allocated to these BMD efforts will affect U.S. defense posture and capabilities in the region, and potential FMS financing of U.S. arms exports could help determine allied approaches to BMD. Through the power of the purse, oversight, legislation, or other tools, Congress may choose to encourage the evolution of an Executive Branch-led APPAA or other formal, collective BMD architectures, or it may choose to slow or thwart this current development. The degree of multilateral integration of BMD assets, accommodation of Russian and Chinese concerns, strategic focus, and technical foundation of BMD capabilities are just several of the critical issues that may merit congressional attention going forward.



OK Im signing out for today. I'll talk about OHP next time. I like that ship.

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Not really, ballistic missiles come from the top and a land based system is what Vietnam needs. For a country like Japan is the other way around, the navy makes a shield against missiles coming from the direction of China (still coming from the top, but from china's direction), but for Vietnam, where the missiles will come from the chinese mainland (from the second artillery corps), a naval shield would be totally unnecessary and most inefficient at the same time. The ships would also be more vulnerable. @Nihonjin1051 What do you think?
> 
> S-300 / 400 can intercept a lot of missiles actually, but their capability to intercept is determined by how many fire control radars the battery has and by how many TEL's with interceptor missiles. Its up to Vietnam to buy enough of those 2 to intercept as many as VN wants.



I think you're referring to the Anti Ballistic Missile System that are on the Kongo and Atago-Class BM Destroyers. These are equipped with SM-3 Block IA ABMs. To augment our AEGIS Detroyer Fleet, we're building 2 more Atago-Class, thus putting our total AEGIS Destroyer fleet to 8 (tho there are predictions to increase this to 10). 

Japan is also building land based ABMs of the Patriot Advanced Capability 3 (PAC-3) that are distributed throughout the military regions of Japan, thus creating a Core ABM Shield Defense. The AEGIS Destroyers provide a Peripheral Defense Shield. Thus Japan has a bi-layered Ballistic Missile Shield. 

We plan on upgrading our missile capabilities on our Navy ships, as in the installment of Cruise Missiles on all our Destroyers, Light Carriers, enemy states will be pulverized with strategic surgical strikes in key military and civilian locations.

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I think you're referring to the Anti Ballistic Missile System that are on the Kongo and Atago-Class BM Destroyers. These are equipped with SM-3 Block IA ABMs. To augment our AEGIS Detroyer Fleet, we're building 2 more Atago-Class, thus putting our total AEGIS Destroyer fleet to 8 (tho there are predictions to increase this to 10).
> 
> Japan is also building land based ABMs of the Patriot Advanced Capability 3 (PAC-3) that are distributed throughout the military regions of Japan, thus creating a Core ABM Shield Defense. The AEGIS Destroyers provide a Peripheral Defense Shield. Thus Japan has a bi-layered Ballistic Missile Shield.
> 
> We plan on upgrading our missile capabilities on our Navy ships, as in the installment of Cruise Missiles on all our Destroyers, Light Carriers, enemy states will be pulverized with strategic surgical strikes in key military and civilian locations.



That's a good set up and is badly needed since the chinese strategy would be to start an attack with massive Ballistic and cruise missile attacks to overwhelm the defense of the main basses and destroy valuable assets.

The latest that I read is that Japan is planning to buy AEGIS Ashore (Land based AEGIS) to complement the Patriot 3. AEGIS is more capable in practice.

Yes, Japan needs to build up offensive capabilities and build up long range cruise missiles Tomahawk style.

We were talking about how to build up the BMD capabilities of Vietnam that so far rely on the S-300 / 400. Japan's system is great, but out of reach of Vietnam's budget.


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## Carlosa

Another good article to read:

India’s Strategic Vietnam Defense Relations | The Diplomat

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another interesting article to read:
> 
> US links arms with Vietnam in maritime security fight | StratRisks


it is an open secret: 

the US navy wants to monitor chinese naval activities in the south china sea, especially the movements of nuclear powered subs. well, I think we can close a deal with America here. if the US provides us with appropriate means such as advanced patrol boats and surveillance planes, for free or on discounted price.

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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I think you're referring to the Anti Ballistic Missile System that are on the Kongo and Atago-Class BM Destroyers. These are equipped with SM-3 Block IA ABMs. To augment our AEGIS Detroyer Fleet, we're building 2 more Atago-Class, thus putting our total AEGIS Destroyer fleet to 8 (tho there are predictions to increase this to 10).
> 
> Japan is also building land based ABMs of the Patriot Advanced Capability 3 (PAC-3) that are distributed throughout the military regions of Japan, thus creating a Core ABM Shield Defense. The AEGIS Destroyers provide a Peripheral Defense Shield. Thus Japan has a bi-layered Ballistic Missile Shield.
> 
> We plan on upgrading our missile capabilities on our Navy ships, as in the installment of Cruise Missiles on all our Destroyers, Light Carriers, enemy states will be pulverized with strategic surgical strikes in key military and civilian locations.


considering the location of Japan, that is a appropriate approach to address potential ballistic missiles attacks from China, Russia and N Korea. good: you have the means to do so. I assume most of your naval assets are assigned to the Sea of Japan and East China Sea?


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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> I assume most of your naval assets are assigned to the Sea of Japan and East China Sea?
> 
> View attachment 151294



There are 4 Fleets of the JMSDF: 1st Escort Fleet, 2nd Escort Fleet, 3rd Escort Fleet and 4th Escort Fleet. These are distributed throughout the naval commands throughout the country. The Fleets are always in patrol throughout the vast maritime territories of Japan.

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> There are 4 Fleets of the JMSDF: 1st Escort Fleet, 2nd Escort Fleet, 3rd Escort Fleet and 4th Escort Fleet. These are distributed throughout the naval commands throughout the country. The Fleets are always in patrol throughout the vast maritime territories of Japan.
> 
> View attachment 151298
> 
> 
> View attachment 151299



And a new fleet will be created in the next few years with the new destroyers recently ordered and will be deployed closer to the chinese threat.

How about a new fleet for operating in the south china sea and Indian ocean? I think china would be very unhappy about that.


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## Viet

meeting between PM and Barack Obama on the sidelines of the 25th ASEAN Summit in Myanmar. the state media says most of major topics involving the countries were covered including the partial lift of arms embargo on Vietnam.


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## Viet

we will start discussions on the roadmap toward a strategic partnership with the Philippines next month.
hm....I wonder if the Philippines will return the two illegal occupied islands to us at the end of the process?

Philippines, Vietnam to jumpstart talks on strategic partnership
http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...ppines-illegally-occupying-2-islands-spratlys


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...you are no fan of aegis, but maybe you are right: arrow system seems to be suitable for our needs: a range of 100km sounds good to me.
> but I guess not too easy to convince Israel to deliver us with the system.





Carlosa said:


> We were talking about how to build up the BMD capabilities of Vietnam that so far rely on the S-300 / 400. Japan's system is great, but out of reach of Vietnam's budget.



Heh you already know I'm a fan of Israeli defence systems. I think the Arrow TMD system is the only option VN has.

Did you read the CRS report? The emphasis was that the US should encourage its allies to integrate all of their BMD system together. But it then went on to say that even if not everyone wants to join in this regional BMD system, the US should still make their hardware and software open for allies to rely on to increase their capabilities. Funny that the report has included Vietnam into this group.

So if VietNam wants to take advantage of this regional BMD system, it must possess a system that has proven interoperability with the US system. And no way does the S-300/S-400 has this interoperability. The Israeli Arrow TMD system does.

The S-300/S-400 is also not a true theatre defence system since it can only intercept at the terminal phase with short interception range. And the S-500 won't be for sale for a long time.

The only option is the Arrow system since the THAAD/AEGIS/Patriot combination is just way beyond the price range of Vietnam. The Arrow is cheaper and provides a true theatre defence system with its mid-course interception and big defence coverage range (100km).

So instead of having the THAAD/AEGIS/Patriot combination, VietNam can just settle for the Arrow/S-400/Buk-M2 combination and still have interoperability with the US regional system through the Arrow system.

This is probably what the Philippines should also go for since they also have a very limited budget.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> You are rich and even have spare money to play around with stocks. I'm only a poor student, and I need money to pay Jane's subscription.


ha ha ha ...poor you. how much is the subscription?

I see you have a long way to go. to tell you the story: I myself completed my university some times ago, and have a company since about 10 years. yes, just out of jokes, I bought Alibaba at 73.14 euro, now the share has risen to 92.22 euro: a 26% rise. not too bad. I consider to buy more shares of other promising chinese companies. Wow it´s good to draw profit from a emerging superpower


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...poor you. how much is the subscription?
> 
> I see you have a long way to go. to tell you the story: I myself completed my university some times ago, and have a company since about 10 years. yes, just out of jokes, I bought Alibaba at 73.14 euro, now the share has risen to 92.22 euro: a 26% rise. not too bad. I consider to buy more shares of other promising chinese companies. Wow it´s good to draw profit from a emerging superpower



That's why I said you are rich. Anyone who has extra money to play with stocks are rich. What kind of company do you own? can I work for you after I graduate? 

I actually got the subscription free at school. But you are still welcome to donate money to me.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Heh you already know I'm a fan of Israeli defence systems. I think the Arrow TMD system is the only option VN has.
> 
> Did you read the CRS report? The emphasis was that the US should encourage its allies to integrate all of their BMD system together. But it then went on to say that even if not everyone wants to join in this regional BMD system, the US should still make their hardware and software open for allies to rely on to increase their capabilities. Funny that the report has included Vietnam into this group.
> 
> So if VietNam wants to take advantage of this regional BMD system, it must possess a system that has proven interoperability with the US system. And no way does the S-300/S-400 has this interoperability. The Israeli Arrow TMD system does.
> 
> The S-300/S-400 is also not a true theatre defence system since it can only intercept at the terminal phase with short interception range. And the S-500 won't be for sale for a long time.
> 
> The only option is the Arrow system since the THAAD/AEGIS/Patriot combination is just way beyond the price range of Vietnam. The Arrow is cheaper and provides a true theatre defence system with its mid-course interception and big defence coverage range (100km).
> 
> So instead of having the THAAD/AEGIS/Patriot combination, VietNam can just settle for the Arrow/S-400/Buk-M2 combination and still have interoperability with the US regional system through the Arrow system.
> 
> This is probably what the Philippines should also go for since they also have a very limited budget.



I totally agree with you. We are on the same page here. I'm also a fan of Israeli systems. The Israelis are always at war and have limited money, they can't afford to make expensive white elephants that don't work. Everything they make just works. The more VN can get from them the better. 

THAAD/AEGIS/Patriot are crazy expensive, THAAD doesn't even work and you remember the Patriot record of 90% interception with Sadam's scuds that turned out to be 0%. Arrow 3 can workout very well for VN and David's Sling is another one that VN should look into (we already talked about Barak 8 before).

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I totally agree with you. We are on the same page here. I'm also a fan of Israeli systems. The Israelis are always at war and have limited money, they can't afford to make expensive white elephants that don't work. Everything they make just works. The more VN can get from them the better.
> 
> THAAD/AEGIS/Patriot are crazy expensive, THAAD doesn't even work and you remember the Patriot record of 90% interception with Sadam's scuds that turned out to be 0%. Arrow 3 can workout very well for VN and David's Sling is another one that VN should look into (we already talked about Barak 8 before).



Yeah after the Arrow 3 missiles get inducted, the BMD system will truly be multi-layered. It can even shoot down LEO satellites, which might come in handy for VN.

Although having Barak-8 will make the whole system integrated, I still think the S-400 is more preferable. In my opinion, the S-400 is still the king against cruise missiles and aircraft, plus it has a longer range than Barak.

So I prefer the Arrow as the top layer BMD system. It can be integrated with the SPYDER for area protection against aircraft and cruise missiles. This system can then be networked to the US regional BMD system.

For the lower layer defence against BM that might escape the top layer defence, the S-300/S-400 and Buk-M2 can take care of them. Plus it also does the best job against aircraft and cruise missiles. The Pantsirs can then be integrated as point defence for these system. VN already has Buk-M2 and Pantsirs right?

This would truly be a multilayered missile defence system. Although interestingly, the US rejected India's request to buy the Arrow system a few years ago.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yeah after the Arrow 3 missiles get inducted, the BMD system will truly be multi-layered. It can even shoot down LEO satellites, which might come in handy for VN.
> 
> Although having Barak-8 will make the whole system integrated, I still think the S-400 is more preferable. In my opinion, the S-400 is still the king against cruise missiles and aircraft, plus it has a longer range than Barak.
> 
> So I prefer the Arrow as the top layer BMD system. It can be integrated with the SPYDER for area protection against aircraft and cruise missiles. This system can then be networked to the US regional BMD system.
> 
> For the lower layer defence against BM that might escape the top layer defence, the S-300/S-400 and Buk-M2 can take care of them. Plus it also does the best job against aircraft and cruise missiles. The Pantsirs can then be integrated as point defence for these system. VN already has Buk-M2 and Pantsirs right?
> 
> This would truly be a multilayered missile defence system. Although interestingly, the US rejected India's request to buy the Arrow system a few years ago.



We think exactly the same way man.

Yes, S-300PMU2 / S-400 are the kings (250 km range for S-300PMU2 and 400 km for S-400), S-300PMU2 can be upgraded to S-400 standard and I'm sure it will be.

VN has 6 batteries of Buk-M2M, same role as Barak 8 which is much better, but oh well.

For expanded point defense (point defense - semi mid range) Spyder-MR (35 km range) and upgraded SAM-3 (S-125 Pechora-2TM, big upgrade, its actually a very good missile) and Pantsir (12 units I believe).

With Arrow 3 it would be quite a complete system and affordable. I forgot USA finances the Arrow, they have veto power, that's too bad.

Yes, VN already has the Buk and Pantsir, but no announcements as usual.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> We think exactly the same way man.
> 
> Yes, S-300PMU2 / S-400 are the kings (250 km range for S-300PMU2 and 400 km for S-400), S-300PMU2 can be upgraded to S-400 standard and I'm sure it will be.
> 
> VN has 6 batteries of Buk-M2M, same role as Barak 8 which is much better, but oh well.
> 
> For expanded point defense (point defense - semi mid range) Spyder-MR (35 km range) and upgraded SAM-3 (S-125 Pechora-2TM, big upgrade, its actually a very good missile) and Pantsir (12 units I believe).
> 
> With Arrow 3 it would be quite a complete system and affordable. I forgot USA finances the Arrow, they have veto power, that's too bad.
> 
> Yes, VN already has the Buk and Pantsir, but no announcements as usual.



i have seen the report of Buk and Pantsir acquisition and request at IHS janes, RIA Novosti, Lenta.ru and some local news in 2010 and 2012 respectively.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> VN has 6 batteries of Buk-M2M, same role as Barak 8 which is much better, but oh well.
> 
> With Arrow 3 it would be quite a complete system and affordable. I forgot USA finances the Arrow, they have veto power, that's too bad.



Buk-M2 is still OK. The Barak-8 will probably cost more than the Buk. The Buk can still intercept tactical BM and can be integrated with the S-300.

The SPYDER is probably good enough to provide area/point defence for the Arrow system. So there is probably no need for the Barak-8 if VN can't afford them.

I'm not sure why the US veto'd Israel's decision to sell the Arrow system to India. But considering the CRS has already encouraged the US to sell VietNam their BMD system, I don't see why they would ban Israel from selling the Arrow system to VietNam.



madokafc said:


> i have seen the report of Buk and Pantsir acquisition and request at IHS janes, RIA Novosti, Lenta.ru and some local news in 2010 and 2012 respectively.



I also remember a SIPRI report confirming the Buk and Pantsir orders.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Buk-M2 is still OK. The Barak-8 will probably cost more than the Buk. The Buk can still intercept tactical BM and can be integrated with the S-300.
> 
> The SPYDER is probably good enough to provide area/point defence for the Arrow system. So there is probably no need for the Barak-8 if VN can't afford them.
> 
> I'm not sure why the US veto'd Israel's decision to sell the Arrow system to India. But considering the CRS has already encouraged the US to sell VietNam their BMD system, I don't see why they would ban Israel from selling the Arrow system to VietNam.
> 
> 
> 
> I also remember a SIPRI report confirming the Buk and Pantsir orders.



Another element to consider in order to have a decent ABM system is the radars. Currently VN doesn't have the type of radars that can give early enough detection and warning. Actually, The Israeli Green Pine radars that they use for the Arrow system are also not good enough (they only give a 2 minute warning time), US gave a better radar to Israel that actually gives a 5 or 6 minute warning time.

For Vn the best solution would be Russian radars, Russia has top radars for ABM defense and also, VN should consider the Russian OTH radars that give a 5000 km range. If Vn can get into that, then it would be quite a nice BMD system.

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## Viet

Carlosa and Black, that news is maybe of your interest. French navy frigate Le Vendemiaire, under the command of Captain Hervé Sire makes port visit to Da Nang. the ship is equipped with onboard Exocet missile. a variant of this rocket is said installed on our new Sigmar warships.
The navy wants probably to see it.


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## Viet

division #312 on live fire training

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa and Black, that news is maybe of your interest. French navy frigate Le Vendemiaire, under the command of Captain Hervé Sire makes port visit to Da Nang. the ship is equipped with onboard Exocet missile. a variant of this rocket is said installed on our new Sigmar warships.
> The navy wants probably to see it.
> 
> View attachment 152298
> 
> 
> View attachment 152303
> 
> View attachment 152304
> 
> 
> View attachment 152305
> 
> 
> View attachment 152300
> 
> 
> View attachment 152302



Yes, it arrived today to Danang. Hopefully I'll be able to take a look at the ship (from a distance of course)


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## Viet

Infantry, anti tank unit with recoilless guns B-10, SPG-9 and M-20

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Another element to consider in order to have a decent ABM system is the radars. Currently VN doesn't have the type of radars that can give early enough detection and warning. Actually, The Israeli Green Pine radars that they use for the Arrow system are also not good enough (they only give a 2 minute warning time), US gave a better radar to Israel that actually gives a 5 or 6 minute warning time.
> 
> For Vn the best solution would be Russian radars, Russia has top radars for ABM defense and also, VN should consider the Russian OTH radars that give a 5000 km range. If Vn can get into that, then it would be quite a nice BMD system.


ha ha ha...I see you know vietnamese army very well. actually we have a variant of french OTH radar with range of some hundreds kilometres. But 5,000 km? that will give us a huge jump ahead if we can get it.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...I see you know vietnamese army very well. actually we have a variant of french OTH radar with range of some hundreds kilometres. But 5,000 km? that will give us a huge jump ahead if we can get it.



Please tell me some details about that French OTH radar that you mentioned because the radars included in the OTH category are always in the thousands of kilometers.

Yes, VN should have 2 OTH radars, one pointing to China and the other one to the South china sea, that will cover everything including *ALL* the chinese territory and the *WHOLE* south china sea. Not bad huh?

Also, OTH radars are very good at detecting cruise missiles, they would detect the missile right from the launch time, that's a very nice warning time.

They are also very good at detecting stealth aircraft since the radar waves hit the planes from the top.

OTH radars are huge. Russia has the best ones. Here are some pics of them:
















The radar in these pics is the Russian Voronezh-DM with a range of 6500 km.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> For Vn the best solution would be Russian radars, Russia has top radars for ABM defense and also, VN should consider the Russian OTH radars that give a 5000 km range. If Vn can get into that, then it would be quite a nice BMD system.



Hmmmm a few problem though:

1. Can VietNam afford to buy and operate these OTH radars?
2. Will Russia dare to sell them to VN? China will be very sensitive about this.
3. I doubt Russia and Israel will cooperate to make this radar be integrated with the Arrow.

I actually think the best option is to host a US forward base X-band radar. The same type that Israel is using. Not only can VN rely on this radar, it can also rely on US satellites for early detection and warning (during the missile boost phase). Frankly, I just don't think VN has enough money and resources to purchase and operate this kind of complete BMD system all by themselves. They must rely on the US or Russia, but I doubt that Russia will cooperate with VN due to their relationship with China.

But this is why I think VN needs two system just in case the US pulls out. The Arrow/SPYDER system to integrate with the US regional BMD system. The S-300/Buk/Pantsir as a non-western backup system.

I'm actually doing some readings on Asian BMD system right now. I've read that the US had planned to setup a forward base X-band radar in South East Asia. The analyst was saying it's likely to be the Philippines.
But after reading that CRS report, I've come to conclude that the US have 3 locations in mind: the Philippines, Singapore and VN.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Please tell me some details about that French OTH radar that you mentioned because the radars included in the OTH category are always in the thousands of kilometers.
> 
> Yes, VN should have 2 OTH radars, one pointing to China and the other one to the South china sea, that will cover everything including *ALL* the chinese territory and the *WHOLE* south china sea. Not bad huh?
> 
> Also, OTH radars are very good at detecting cruise missiles, they would detect the missile right from the launch time, that's a very nice warning time.
> 
> They are also very good at detecting stealth aircraft since the radar waves hit the planes from the top.
> 
> OTH radars are huge. Russia has the best ones. Here are some pics of them:
> 
> View attachment 152363
> View attachment 152364
> View attachment 152365
> 
> View attachment 152366
> 
> 
> The radar in these pics is the Russian Voronezh-DM with a range of 6500 km.


I posted the news some time ago. it is a sort of small OTH radars that can be installed on warships:

Coast Watcher 100 | Thales Group
specs: wavelength 10m, over the horizon radar, capable to detect targets such as

stealth vessel at a distance of 45 km with radar reflector size (RCS) of 1m2
aircraft at a distance of 90 km at low altitude of 170m with RCS of 25m2
fishing vessel with RCS of 50m2 with 3m height above sea level at 145 km distance
warship with RCS of 10,000m2, 10m height above sea level at a distance of 170 km
can be installed on next generation of warships as Sigma class


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> Carlosa and Black, that news is maybe of your interest. French navy frigate Le Vendemiaire, under the command of Captain Hervé Sire makes port visit to Da Nang. the ship is equipped with onboard Exocet missile. a variant of this rocket is said installed on our new Sigmar warships.
> The navy wants probably to see it.



That frigate looks a bit old. Maybe you can lobby them to give it to VN for free? VN is buying some very expensive French missiles, they should give something free as a package. 



Viet said:


> ha ha ha...I see you know vietnamese army very well. actually we have a variant of french OTH radar with range of some hundreds kilometres. But 5,000 km? that will give us a huge jump ahead if we can get it.



I think you are talking about the Thales coastal radar?


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## Viet

here is the link:
Những vũ khí "khủng" của Pháp trong biên chế QĐND Việt Nam | Quân sự | Báo Dân Việt

France will deliver CoastWatcher 100, Exocet MM40 Block 3 and VL MICA.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I posted the news some time ago. it is a sort of small OTH radars that can be installed on warships:
> 
> Coast Watcher 100 | Thales Group
> specs: wavelength 10m, over the horizon radar, capable to detect targets such as
> 
> stealth vessel at a distance of 45 km with radar reflector size (RCS) of 1m2
> aircraft at a distance of 90 km at low altitude of 170m with RCS of 25m2
> fishing vessel with RCS of 50m2 with 3m height above sea level at 145 km distance
> warship with RCS of 10,000m2, 10m height above sea level at a distance of 170 km
> can be installed on next generation of warships as Sigma class
> 
> View attachment 152568
> View attachment 152569



I had a feeling that you were thinking about these radars since those are the only French radars in VN, but those don't belong to the category of OTH radars.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Hmmmm a few problem though:
> 
> 1. Can VietNam afford to buy and operate these OTH radars?
> 2. Will Russia dare to sell them to VN? China will be very sensitive about this.
> 3. I doubt Russia and Israel will cooperate to make this radar be integrated with the Arrow.
> 
> I actually think the best option is to host a US forward base X-band radar. The same type that Israel is using. Not only can VN rely on this radar, it can also rely on US satellites for early detection and warning (during the missile boost phase). Frankly, I just don't think VN has enough money and resources to purchase and operate this kind of complete BMD system all by themselves. They must rely on the US or Russia, but I doubt that Russia will cooperate with VN due to their relationship with China.
> 
> But this is why I think VN needs two system just in case the US pulls out. The Arrow/SPYDER system to integrate with the US regional BMD system. The S-300/Buk/Pantsir as a non-western backup system.
> 
> I'm actually doing some readings on Asian BMD system right now. I've read that the US had planned to setup a forward base X-band radar in South East Asia. The analyst was saying it's likely to be the Philippines.
> But after reading that CRS report, I've come to conclude that the US have 3 locations in mind: the Philippines, Singapore and VN.



Actually, they are not as expensive as you think, that Voronezh-DM is consider quite cheap to build and operate when compared to the old OTH radars (It also requires a lot less electric power). The American ones on the other hand are very expensive. I think VN can afford it. Russia is installing lots of OTH radars of different types including the Container and the Pillbox.

I don't know if Russia or US would supply those systems, difficult to say. If USA gives or sells those systems to VN that would also provoke a chinese reaction, so I don't know which alternative is better. I very much doubt that VN will allow US to install that radar in VN territory as a US radar.

Having 2 complementary systems is definitely a good idea, I'm all for that. I'd like to see VN getting more air defense systems from Israel. Don't forget David's Sling, that's a nice one, interceptor missile with a dual seeker. Difficult to escape from that.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Actually, they are not as expensive as you think, that Voronezh-DM is consider quite cheap to build and operate when compared to the old OTH radars (It also requires a lot less electric power). The American ones on the other hand are very expensive. I think VN can afford it. Russia is installing lots of OTH radars of different types including the Container and the Pillbox.



That's great if they are cheap. But I still doubt if Russia would be willing to sell them, BMD system can help make nuclear deterence obsolete. Thats why all the big powers like Russia and China is making a lot of complain against US BMD system across Europe and Asia. Plus I dont know if Russian radar can be integrated with Arrow? 



> I don't know if Russia or US would supply those systems, difficult to say. If USA gives or sells those systems to VN that would also provoke a chinese reaction, so I don't know which alternative is better. I very much doubt that VN will allow US to install that radar in VN territory as a US radar.



US definitely dont care about China's complaints, thats why they continue to setup BMD system in SKorea, Taiwan, etc. Thats their purposes, to neutralise China's second strike capability. 

I've read another analysis that one of the US goal in setting up BMD around Russia and China is to reduce its dependacy on its own domestic nuke arsenal as its second strike capabilities.

The regional BMD system is also setup to maintain US legitimacy as a reliable treaty ally. Singapore and Australia would be happy to have US BMD system set up in VN and the Philippines as those would be their first line of defence against Chinese BM. 



> Having 2 complementary systems is definitely a good idea, I'm all for that. I'd like to see VN getting more air defense systems from Israel. Don't forget David's Sling, that's a nice one, interceptor missile with a dual seeker. Difficult to escape from that.



How much does a David Sling system cost?

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> How much does a David Sling system cost?



I don't know, still in development, I think it will deploy in 1 or 2 years. Arrow 3 same situation, 3 years to finish development.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> That's great if they are cheap.



Another OTH radar that is even cheaper and is even mobile is the Container OTH system, this one has a 3000 km range:

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Another OTH radar that is even cheaper and is even mobile is the Container OTH system, this one has a 3000 km range:
> 
> View attachment 152700
> View attachment 152701
> View attachment 152702
> View attachment 152703



Those looks nice, but I still have my doubts whether they can be integrated with the Arrow system. These OTH radar needs to be integrated so that the Arrow can track and calculate the interception coordinate as quickly as possible.

I dont think its a good idea to have the two system isolated and I seriously doubt the Russian would cooperate with Israel to integrate the two systems together.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Those looks nice, but I still have my doubts whether they can be integrated with the Arrow system. These OTH radar needs to be integrated so that the Arrow can track and calculate the interception coordinate as quickly as possible.
> 
> I dont think its a good idea to have the two system isolated and I seriously doubt the Russian would cooperate with Israel to integrate the two systems together.



I agree with you, these are all just possibilities and open questions. It would be nice to have all those systems and to have them integrated, but VN depends on the will of others for that. We'll have to see.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I had a feeling that you were thinking about these radars since those are the only French radars in VN, but those don't belong to the category of OTH radars.


that´s right. we don´t have such OTH radars with range of above 1,000 km right now.


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## Viet

Israeli Galil rifle Z111 factory in VN


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## Viet

the navy needs more than 4 from such warship, or we should place more advanced missiles on them.


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## Viet

Repair facility A32 for fighter jets


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## Viet

*Interfax: *
Vietnam purchases russian made NKVD-27 communications system for the SU-30 fleet, operating on VHF/UHF frequency band with range 350-400 km, HF with range 1,000-1,500 km.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the navy needs more than 4 from such warship, or we should place more advanced missiles on them.
> View attachment 153066



I think we need both.


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## Viet

Carlosa, SIPRI says VN will receive the first of 6 Yak-130 in 2015. that is the first time I hear. Have you heard anything about it?
Những vũ khí mới Việt Nam sẽ nhận trong năm 2015 - Sohanews


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## Viet

57mm AZP S-60 artillery in live firing exercise


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, SIPRI says VN will receive the first of 6 Yak-130 in 2015. that is the first time I hear. Have you heard anything about it?
> Những vũ khí mới Việt Nam sẽ nhận trong năm 2015 - Sohanews
> View attachment 153129



That one had been on order or rumored on order for a few years, nothing new. Its just a trainer with ground attack capability.

Careful with this report, this same report came out a few months ago, I posted the announcement on the MP forum and other people in the forum that have access to SIPRI (including one that works for SIPRI) blasted me because it was false, SIPRI didn't put out this report.

Some of these people that write articles for the newspapers are just either dreaming or faking stuff to make some money with the article.

Some of those things such as the BUK and Pantsir are already deployed.

If what they say about the Pantsir is true that uses the Sosna-R missile, not the standard missiles, then that's really bad by the way.

Edit: I just noticed the date, 01/07/2014, this is the report that I posted in the MP forum a few months earlier, Its false. This does not mean that VN didn't get or that is not going to get that stuff, but the report is false.

@Black Flag Bro, do you have access to SIPRI per chance?

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## Nike

actually yes, Vietnam will receive Yak-130 soon in near future, but i don't know the exact dates for the delivery. I know this news since attended Singapore Air Show 2014, in which Rosoboronexport has announced the orders. 

But, hey who am i, i am just a bystander here


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## Nike

Singapore Airshow: Russia's Yak-130 advanced trainer looks for further AsPac orders - IHS Jane's 360

just the old news


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> That one had been on order or rumored on order for a few years, nothing new. Its just a trainer with ground attack capability.
> 
> Careful with this report, this same report came out a few months ago, I posted the announcement on the MP forum and other people in the forum that have access to SIPRI (including one that works for SIPRI) blasted me because it was false, SIPRI didn't put out this report.
> 
> Some of these people that write articles for the newspapers are just either dreaming or faking stuff to make some money with the article.
> 
> Some of those things such as the BUK and Pantsir are already deployed.
> 
> If what they say about the Pantsir is true that uses the Sosna-R missile, not the standard missiles, then that's really bad by the way.
> 
> Edit: I just noticed the date, 01/07/2014, this is the report that I posted in the MP forum a few months earlier, Its false. This does not mean that VN didn't get or that is not going to get that stuff, but the report is false.
> 
> @Black Flag Bro, do you have access to SIPRI per chance?



You can generate your own export-import lists here:

SIPRI Arms Transfers Database — www.sipri.org

The annual yearbook is in the school library system and I'm off campus right now.

Edit: you can also check out

World Military Expenditures and Arms Transfers

COW Home Page

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> actually yes, Vietnam will receive Yak-130 soon in near future, but i don't know the exact dates for the delivery. I know this news since attended Singapore Air Show 2014, in which Rosoboronexport has announced the orders.
> 
> But, hey who am i, i am just a bystander here


I wish it comes true as all news say the order is unconfirmed. Same goes to this news: India plans to set up a new ground station in Vietnam and upgrade an existing facility in Indonesia to monitor satellites.

India plans to set up satellite tracking station in Vietnam

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> actually yes, Vietnam will receive Yak-130 soon in near future, but i don't know the exact dates for the delivery. I know this news since attended Singapore Air Show 2014, in which Rosoboronexport has announced the orders.
> 
> But, hey who am i, i am just a bystander here



Modest as usual.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> You can generate your own export-import lists here:
> 
> SIPRI Arms Transfers Database — www.sipri.org
> 
> The annual yearbook is in the school library system and I'm off campus right now.
> 
> Edit: you can also check out
> 
> World Military Expenditures and Arms Transfers
> 
> COW Home Page



Thank you bro.


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## Viet

some more pics from the Gepard visit to Indonesia

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## Viet

November 17 Lao Cai city, Vietnam
Signing cooperation agreement between the border guards of VN and CN. I suggest both parties should come together at regular basis, eating some nice viet/chinese foods and trinking beer as a way to reduce tension

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## Viet

the Obama administration allocates $113 million dollar USTDA for the fiscal year 2015 to Vietnam. Little bit unclear to me what the money goes for and why. The program appears to lure and inform vietnamese audience on “Welcome to America”. Maybe it is about to spread US capitalist propaganda in communist Vietnam 

U.S. taxpayers expected to upgrade communist Vietnam

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## Viet

_here is the second news from the promised land America. Reading between the lines will reveal many things._

*Obama says US, Vietnam experiencing 'deeper engagement'*

By John Boudreau and Phil Mattingly
Bloomberg News
Published: November 13, 2014






NAYPYIDAW, Myanmar — President Barack Obama's one-on-one meeting with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung at a regional summit in Myanmar highlights how the former enemies are edging closer, against the wishes of China.

The bilateral huddle of the leaders follows last month's decision to lift the ban on sales of American nonlethal weapons to Vietnam after tensions escalated between the Southeast Asian country and its communist neighbor. The United States and Vietnam are experiencing "deeper and deeper engagement and opportunities to cooperate," Obama said ahead of Thursday's meeting on the sidelines of the East Asia Summit of Southeast Asian nations and several world leaders.

Vietnam wants a U.S. presence in the region as its leaders use an array of diplomatic moves to counter China's influence in the region. The government in Hanoi is pursuing negotiations to diffuse territorial disputes in the South China Sea while publicly protesting Chinese actions and seeking closer economic and military ties to the United States and other powers, including India and Japan.

"Vietnam is hedging," Alexander Vuving, a security analyst at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Hawaii, said by phone. "There are elements of competition and cooperation in the strategy. The approach is to deter China and reassure China of its peaceful intentions."

Obama's meeting with Dung comes after diplomatic relations between Vietnam and China ruptured when a Chinese oil rig was placed off Vietnam's coast in May, triggering clashes between boats and also anti-Chinese riots in Vietnam. Officials in Hanoi on Oct. 9 protested China's completion of an upgraded airstrip in the disputed Paracel Islands.

"Obviously, the United States and Vietnam have a very complex and difficult history, but for the last several years what we've seen is deeper and deeper engagement and opportunities to cooperate," Obama said.

The meeting, he added, gives the two countries "additional opportunities to cooperate."

In October, Secretary of State John Kerry told Vietnam's Deputy Prime Minister Pham Binh Minh that Vietnam will be able to buy nonlethal weapons from the U.S.

"We very much share the belief that it is important for all countries, big and small, in the region to abide by rules- based norms in resolving disputes," Obama said.

The U.S. and Vietnam continue to have "productive dialogues on issues like security," Dung said. Relations between the two countries "have achieved significant progress," he said.

Vietnam is seeking "assurance that the U.S. stays the course in its re-balance" to Asia, Carlyle Thayer, an emeritus professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy in Canberra, said by phone.

It is easier for China to "manipulate" Vietnam's leadership if no other powers or international bodies get involved with South China Sea disputes, Tuong Vu, an associate professor of political science at the University of Oregon, said by phone.

"China wants to slow down the relationship between the U.S. and Vietnam," he said.

China's State Councilor Yang Jiechi met with Vietnamese officials in Hanoi Oct. 27 to patch up relations. Yang's visit to Hanoi coincided with Dung's trip to India, when the prime minister called on the country to play an active role in territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Maritime disagreements "should be resolved through dialogue and consultation by countries directly involved on the basis of respect and historical facts and international laws," Hong Lei, China's Foreign Ministry spokesman, said at a briefing in Beijing Oct. 28. "This is in line with international laws and common practices, and is also a consensus reached by China and Asean countries."

Navigating its relations with China while protecting its economic and sovereign interests is risky diplomacy for Vietnam, Vuving said.

Trade between Vietnam and China surged 84 percent to $50.2 billion last year from $27.3 billion in 2010, according to Vietnam government data. The two countries aim to boost that flow to $60 billion in 2015, according to an April 14 statement from Vietnam's government.

The "reset" between Vietnam and China, which includes hotlines and increased high-level meetings, could be brief, Thayer said.

"All it takes is a misstep or perceived misstep by any of the parties" to inflame territorial tensions, he said. "The fundamental sovereignty disputes have not been solved."

_John Boudreau reported from Hanoi, Vietnam._


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## Viet

Vietnam Army Chief, Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty, visits Australia Air Chief Marshal Mark Binskin.

Talks focused on peacekeeping mission, maritime security and officer training. Also, Ty visits HMAS Stirling in Perth, a major military port for warships and subs, especially the Collins Class submarines. I guess he wants to see how the Aussie operate something as the Cam Ranh bay.

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## Viet

Good bye Indonesia






in the morning of Nov 19, the Gepards arrive port Muara (Brunei).

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## Viet

Russian news agency Interfax:
The Kilo #3 for the navy: HQ-184 Hai Phong (left in the picture) is ready to make the voyage to Cam Ranh bay.

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## Viet

the Gepards visit to the Philippines


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## Viet

A new tug boat DN 2000 class for the coast guard. One more under construction.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> A new tug boat DN 2000 class for the coast guard. One more under construction.
> View attachment 156489
> 
> 
> View attachment 156490
> 
> 
> View attachment 156488



This is not a DN 2000, its a DST-4612 class (Damen Salvage Tug).
Vietnamese designation is CSB-9004.

I can see that the banner in your first picture says DN 2000, but its not related to this ship, its probably because they also make that ship there and that's the main coast guard vessel made in Vietnam (much bigger than the tug boat) so its the main and best ship of that shipyard.


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## Carlosa

@Viet Bro, how do you interpret this statement, I don't quite get the meaning very clearly, are they implying that Vietnam already have the S-400? They refer to "Lao" as Vietnam in order to not publicly reveal that Vietnam received this or that.

"Giờ mà nhận đủ 2 lữ đoàn S-400 Triumf thì nước "Lào" bố trí ở đâu là hợp lý nhất các đồng chí nhỉ?

Xét trong điều kiện mua được đủ bộ tên lửa 40N6 (tầm bắn 400km), 48N6E3 (250km) và 9M96E2 (120km) nhé."

This is the Google translation:
Now that the brigade received enough 2 S-400 Triumf the country "Lao" layout where the most reasonable comrades, right?
At the conditional purchase enough 40N6 missiles (range 400 km), 48N6E3 (250km) and 9M96E2 (120) offline.


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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> @Viet Bro, how do you interpret this statement, I don't quite get the meaning very clearly, are they implying that Vietnam already have the S-400? They refer to "Lao" as Vietnam in order to not publicly reveal that Vietnam received this or that.
> 
> "Giờ mà nhận đủ 2 lữ đoàn S-400 Triumf thì nước "Lào" bố trí ở đâu là hợp lý nhất các đồng chí nhỉ?
> 
> Xét trong điều kiện mua được đủ bộ tên lửa 40N6 (tầm bắn 400km), 48N6E3 (250km) và 9M96E2 (120km) nhé."
> 
> This is the Google translation:
> Now that the brigade received enough 2 S-400 Triumf the country "Lao" layout where the most reasonable comrades, right?
> At the conditional purchase enough 40N6 missiles (range 400 km), 48N6E3 (250km) and 9M96E2 (120) offline.


We didn't have it yet, these words were just theory ...

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> We didn't have it yet, these words were just theory ...



O.k., but what is the message that is trying to give?


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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> O.k., but what is the message that is trying to give?



Opps, I think it clear as day.
He want to discusses about most effective location to place those system which will cover air space above our important facilities, in condition we have full set "range" of system.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Opps, I think it clear as day.
> He want to discusses about most effective location to place those system which will cover air space above our important facilities, in condition we have full set "range" of system.



Oh, thank you. Clear as day if you speak vietnamese, the google translation is not so clear.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet Bro, how do you interpret this statement, I don't quite get the meaning very clearly, are they implying that Vietnam already have the S-400? They refer to "Lao" as Vietnam in order to not publicly reveal that Vietnam received this or that.
> 
> "Giờ mà nhận đủ 2 lữ đoàn S-400 Triumf thì nước "Lào" bố trí ở đâu là hợp lý nhất các đồng chí nhỉ?
> 
> Xét trong điều kiện mua được đủ bộ tên lửa 40N6 (tầm bắn 400km), 48N6E3 (250km) và 9M96E2 (120km) nhé."
> 
> This is the Google translation:
> Now that the brigade received enough 2 S-400 Triumf the country "Lao" layout where the most reasonable comrades, right?
> At the conditional purchase enough 40N6 missiles (range 400 km), 48N6E3 (250km) and 9M96E2 (120) offline.


it reads (literally translated):

comrades, our air defence will be complete as soon as (or if) two brigades receive the S-400 Triumf. Pay attention to the conditions attached to the deal: 40N6 (range 400 km), 48N6E3 (250km) and 9M96E2 (120km)!

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> This is not a DN 2000, its a DST-4612 class (Damen Salvage Tug).
> Vietnamese designation is CSB-9004.
> 
> I can see that the banner in your first picture says DN 2000, but its not related to this ship, its probably because they also make that ship there and that's the main coast guard vessel made in Vietnam (much bigger than the tug boat) so its the main and best ship of that shipyard.


hm...little bit confusing. you are right: dn-2000 class is patrol, tshd2000 class is dredger, and dst-4612 is tugboat.
Modern rescue vessel for VN Coast Guard launched - News VietNamNet

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> it reads (litterally translated):
> 
> comrades, our air defence will be complete as soon as (or if) two brigades receive the S-400 Triumf. Pay attention to the conditions attached to the deal: 40N6 (range 400 km), 48N6E3 (250km) and 9M96E2 (120km)!


Bro, your translate change the meaning of these words and will made mistake we have been getting those system right now.


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> hm...little bit confusing. you are right: dn-2000 class is patrol, tshd2000 class is dredger, and dst-4612 is tugboat.
> Modern rescue vessel for VN Coast Guard launched - News VietNamNet


ceremony for laid keel for next DN-2000 and launching new tug boat

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## Viet

Soryu said:


> Bro, your translate change the meaning of these words and will made mistake we have been getting those system right now.


no, I translate "as soon as (or if)", that means we don´t have the system yet.

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## Viet

Nice, that is new to me: I´m not aware our shipyard can build amphibious landing ships.

Việt Nam đóng 4 tàu đổ bộ xuất khẩu sang Venezuela
Hạ Long shipyard closes a contract to build 4 amphibious landing ships (Roro 5612 class) for Venezuela.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> no, I translate "as soon as (or if)", that means we don´t have the system yet.



@Viet @Soryu Troi oi, My God, you guys have differences about the meaning and I'm suppose to have it clear as day when I don't speak Vietnamese?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Nice, that is new to me: I´m not aware our shipyard can build amphibious landing ships.
> 
> Việt Nam đóng 4 tàu đổ bộ xuất khẩu sang Venezuela
> Hạ Long shipyard closes a contract to build 4 amphibious landing ships (Roro 5612 class) for Venezuela.
> 
> View attachment 157200
> 
> View attachment 157201
> 
> View attachment 157202



Its made by the new Damen shipyard in Vietnam. When they got the order for Venezuela, VN used the opportunity and also ordered 4 for Vietnam. Its the first time they make this ship.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet @Soryu Troi oi, My God, you guys have differences about the meaning and I'm suppose to have it clear as water when I don't speak Vietnamese?


no way, in my opinion, vietnamese is complicated. english/german is much more clearer

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its made by the new Damen shipyard in Vietnam. When they got the order for Venezuela, VN used the opportunity and also ordered 3 for Vietnam. Its the first time they make this ship.


Great! the Dutch helps and supports us much in shipbuilding.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> no way, in my opinion, vietnamese is complicated. english/german is much more clearer



Vietnamese is complicated? No kidding, and lets not even talk about the pronunciation and all those tones


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Vietnamese is complicated? No kidding, and lets not even talk about the pronunciation and all those tones


seriously, sometimes I believe it was a major mistake of emperor Khai Dinh. He was the one that issued the royal edict to introducing vietnamese latin version as official script. mandarin has a wonderful sound and script.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> no, I translate "as soon as (or if)", that means we don´t have the system yet.


my mistake ...


Viet said:


> Nice, that is new to me: I´m not aware our shipyard can build amphibious landing ships.
> 
> Việt Nam đóng 4 tàu đổ bộ xuất khẩu sang Venezuela
> Hạ Long shipyard closes a contract to build 4 amphibious landing ships (Roro 5612 class) for Venezuela.
> 
> View attachment 157200
> 
> View attachment 157201
> 
> View attachment 157202


we build but don't design, that's sad. We need more R&D for defense industry when economy get better

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> seriously, sometimes I believe it was a major mistake of emperor Khai Dinh. He was the one that issued the royal edict to introducing vietnamese latin version as official script. mandarin has a wonderful sound and script.


Madarin is complicated too (with me), hard to recognize so many and complex characters

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## fadine

extra ?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> seriously, sometimes I believe it was a major mistake of emperor Khai Dinh. He was the one that issued the royal edict to introducing vietnamese latin version as official script. mandarin has a wonderful sound and script.



You want to make my life even more difficult? At least I can read Vietnamese, forget about chinese, plus chinese often sound like if they are angrily shouting.


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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> we build but don't design, that's sad. We need more R&D for defense industry when economy get better



Very true !!!!!!!

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## Carlosa

fadine said:


> extra ?



Don't know, but the typical launcher for Extra looks very different than your pic.

Maybe this is a customized launcher. The missile tubes do look like Extra.


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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Don't know, but the typical launcher for Extra looks very different than your pic.
> 
> Maybe this is a customized launcher. The missile tubes do look like Extra.



Don't know, but I think he repost from other post of SKVN (Silent knight) on TTVNOL 4rum.
To me, it's like more a torpedo test or Extra test equipment. The soldier wear navy camo ...


This is EXTRA for sure, we will know more at tomorrow after GDQP Facebook page upload video from QPVN channel to youtube.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Don't know, but I think he repost from other post of SKVN (Silent knight) on TTVNOL 4rum.
> To me, it's like more a torpedo test or Extra test equipment. The soldier wear navy camo ...
> 
> 
> This is EXTRA for sure, we will know more at tomorrow after GDQP Facebook page upload video from QPVN channel on youtube.



I think the diameter of the tube is too small for torpedo, VN uses 533 mm torpedoes. That being said, torpedo launchers have 2 tubes so I'm not sure. This is intriguing.

Edit: Yes, this is Extra.

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## Soryu

Orbiter 2 - UAV system which use along with Extra system or other artillery system for reconnaissance and intelligence task.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Don't know, but I think he repost from other post of SKVN (Silent knight) on TTVNOL 4rum.
> To me, it's like more a torpedo test or Extra test equipment. The soldier wear navy camo ...
> 
> 
> This is EXTRA for sure, we will know more at tomorrow after GDQP Facebook page upload video from QPVN channel to youtube.
> 
> View attachment 157294



In your opinion, which are the best facebook pages to get news and info about the vietnamese military?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I think the diameter of the tube is too small for torpedo, VN uses 533 mm torpedoes. That being said, torpedo launchers have 2 tubes so I'm not sure. This is intriguing.
> 
> Edit: Yes, this is Extra.


...not much info disclosed by the army. how many systems or so, at all and what is used for? the range of this tactical missile seems to be 150 km as the video reveals.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ...not much info disclosed by the army. how many systems or so, at all and what is used for? the range of this tactical missile seems to be 150 km as the video reveals.
> View attachment 157599



No disclosure as usual. I used to read that the Marines will use them in the islands to hit enemy amphibious vessels and could also be used to hit enemy garrisons, particularly now that China is enlarging islands and setting up bases there.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No disclosure as usual. I used to read that the Marines will use them in the islands to hit enemy amphibious vessels and could also be used to hit enemy garrisons, particularly now that China is enlarging islands and setting up bases there.


that makes sense. the video shows a tube installation, that can be mounted on vessels.


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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> In your opinion, which are the best facebook pages to get news and info about the vietnamese military?


Some staff of GDQP fb page (Giáo Dục Quốc Phòng) are also staff of QPVN Channel (kênh Quốc phòng Việt Nam - official defense news channel of Vietnam), so they give more correct infos about military news. But with that FB, you will never find "hot" news or funny, trolling news like Comcom facebook.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> that makes sense. the video shows a tube installation, that can be mounted on vessels.



Yes, but I believe it will be mounted on a vehicle on land to defend the islands. The islands don't usually have ships assigned to them.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> The evil Jews has been keeping this sales a secret all along and has never announced the Viet transfer! I better keep an eye on that Facebook page more often.



This is not new, we knew about this since last year, its just that now they released pics for the first time, which in itself, its unusually fast. Most things they never announce or show pics.

Another example, it was only 2 or 3 months ago that it was announced that Vietnam was interested in the UAV Orbiter 2 and now today they released the pics that its already being used with the EXTRA. 

Its almost a given that most of the times where it gets mentioned that Vietnam is looking into something, that the deal is already done.

Russia did announce that a certain unnamed country will receive 2 S-400 batteries next year (they said before 2016), I know that's for Vietnam, but forget about anything official.

The evil jews have no problems keeping things secret, that's ideal for Vietnam.

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## Soryu

The video about new UAV and Extra system:

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Some staff of GDQP fb page (Giáo Dục Quốc Phòng) are also staff of QPVN Channel (kênh Quốc phòng Việt Nam - official defense news channel of Vietnam), so they give more correct infos about military news. But with that FB, you will never find "hot" news or funny, trolling news like Comcom facebook.



Ok, so comcom is the best one (as I expected), there are many others, but they just show a few things only or don't post too often. The one that I used as the best second one is facebook.com/GiaoducQP.

Is there any website where I can watch the QPVN Channel live online, meaning the whole thing, all day long?


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> This is not new, we knew about this since last year, its just that now they released pics for the first time, which in itself, its unusually fast.



But Israel has never confirmed the sales. Even SIPRI or Jane's have never found out.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, but I believe it will mounted on a vehicle on land to defend the islands. The islands don't usually have ships assigned to them.



It will be a network of fixed launchers. Check my article, it's a brand new coastal system (CIDS) that happens to use the Extra rocket. It is a typical Israeli high tech fully integrated system. wow.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> The video about new UAV and Extra system:



Good video, thank you.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> But Israel has never confirmed the sales. Even SIPRI or Jane's have never found out.
> 
> 
> 
> It will be a network of fixed launchers. Check my article, it's a brand new coastal system (CIDS) that happens to use the Extra rocket. It is a typical Israeli high tech fully integrated system. wow.



Fixed launcher is not a great idea, easy to spot and easy to take it out, it should be mobile on a small vehicle, keep it hidden and take it out just before needing to use it. At least that's my take. I'll read your article.

When it comes to Vietnam, SIPRI and Jane's are of partial use, this is normal.

That's why I used to argue with the Indonesian sister, she never believes until there is announcement, but that doesn't work with Vietnam.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, but I believe it will mounted on a vehicle on land to defend the islands. The islands don't usually have ships assigned to them.


no, our controlled part of spratlys has own coast guard vessels. the likelyhood is 100 per cent that permanent warships are stationed to the defence of islands as well.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Fixed launcher is not a great idea, easy to spot and easy to take it out, it should be mobile on a small vehicle, keep it hidden and take it out just before needing to use it. At least that's my take. I'll read your article.
> 
> When it comes to Vietnam, SIPRI and Jane's are of partial use, this is normal.
> 
> That's why I used to argue with the Indonesian sister, she never believes until there is announcement, but that doesn't work with Vietnam.



True, but judging by that video, they will use the fix launchers. It is the same launcher as the ones in that picture. 

Also fixed launchers are cheaper than trucks.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> More about the CIDS system. This one is about another rocket, not the Extra, but uses the same CIDS system.
> 
> 
> 
> A pretty nice and high tech coastal system.



Wow, this is nice. When I researched about EXTRA last year, they didn't have this info or this application as island defense, I'm sure this is because of the sale to Vietnam.

Well, the article says fixed or truck mounted. I think the 2 tube set up from the video can be mounted in an small vehicle, but i'm not sure.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> no, our controlled part of spratlys has own coast guard vessels. the likelyhood is 100 per cent that permanent warships are stationed to the defence of islands as well.



That's only during peacetime, coast guard vessels are not for warfare; you can be sure that if this system goes on a ship, it has to be a warship, but anyway, its already clear that it will be installed on land, read the article from black flag.


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> True, but judging by that video, they will use the fix launchers. It is the same launcher as the ones in that picture.
> 
> Also fixed launchers are cheaper than trucks.



Well, in that case, I hope that launcher can be moved easily.

That's a great system mate.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the likelyhood is 100 per cent that permanent warships are stationed to the defence of islands as well.



I don't think so because the Gepards and Molniyas are usually in their home bases and there is only one island that actually has a port, South Cay, so actually, the islands themselves are not set up to receive warships and to keep them based there and anyway, Vietnam doesn't have enough warships at the moment to cover so many islands.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Well, in that case, I hope that launcher can be moved easily.
> 
> That's a great system mate.



Yea it might be a mixture of fixed launchers and mobile trucks.

It seems like there is a possibility for other ship based weapons to be integrated into this CIDS. The whole system is totally networked. If they can integrate the KH-35 (ship base) in the future, then this island defense system is pretty solid.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I don't think so because the Gepards and Molniyas are usually in their home bases and there is only one island that actually has a port, South Cay, so actually, the islands themselves are not set up to receive warships and anyway, Vietnam doesn't have enough warships at the moment to cover so many islands.



If they can integrate the Molniyas and Gepards and future MPA together with this system, then these ships don't need to get close to the CIDS or Islands. The CIDS can give guidance for the ships over 100km away. 

But I doubt the Russian system on the Molniyas and Gepard can be integrated. The future Indian OPV hybrid with Israeli CMS maybe.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yea it might be a mixture of fixed launchers and mobile trucks.
> 
> It seems like there is a possibility for other ship based weapons to be integrated into this CIDS. The whole system is totally networked. If they can integrate the KH-35 (ship base) in the future, then this island defense system is pretty solid.



There is one other thing that Vietnam also have that can be used with this system, the Accular missile. Together with the EXTRA they make a great combo.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> If they can integrate the Molniyas and Gepards and future MPA together with this system, then these ships don't need to get close to the CIDS or Islands. The CIDS can give guidance for the ships over 100km away.
> 
> But I doubt the Russian system on the Molniyas and Gepard can be integrated. The future Indian OPV hybrid with Israeli CMS maybe.



Frankly, I don't think those ships have space where you can integrate this system, but I don't think its a good idea to have it on a ship because if an attacker is going to try to take over islands, the first thing they'll do is to eliminate any ships in the area.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yea it might be a mixture of fixed launchers and mobile trucks.
> 
> It seems like there is a possibility for other ship based weapons to be integrated into this CIDS. The whole system is totally networked. If they can integrate the KH-35 (ship base) in the future, then this island defense system is pretty solid.



The Accular missile is more accurate than Extra, it can be used to hit the landing boats.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I don't think so because the Gepards and Molniyas are usually in their home bases and there is only one island that actually has a port, South Cay, so actually, the islands themselves are not set up to receive warships and to keep them based there and anyway, Vietnam doesn't have enough warships at the moment to cover so many islands.


you may be right. I am not sure if we have built naval bases yet in the spratlys. but the need is there when in 2 years, when 4 more subs, 2 frigates, 4 corvettes, gun boats and not to forget new 32 medium/big patrol vessels, and a number of patrol vessels of Japan, America and India arrive.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you may be right. I am not sure if we have built naval bases yet in the spratlys. but the need is there when in 2 years, when 4 more subs, 2 frigates, 4 corvettes, gun boats and not to forget new 32 medium/big patrol vessels, and a number of patrol vessels of Japan, America and India arrive.



Of course, that's the whole idea. Right now there is only one port / base and that's South Cay, the next one will be Sin Cowe island where they are building a port. Next will probably be West London reef where they are doing land reclamation. I imagine they need to also do it in Big Spratly island eventually since that's the biggest island.

VN needs small ships to base in the islands. The Molniyas would be ideal there, missile boats would also be good.

VN needs to do like China, land reclamation and build and build........

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Frankly, I don't think those ships have space where you can integrate this system, but I don't think its a good idea to have it on a ship because if an attacker is going to try to take over islands, the first thing they'll do is to eliminate any ships in the area.



They can be integrated on the rumored GSL OPV hybrid perhaps? or on smaller stealth FAC. The 150km range is pretty good. These ships dont need to be close to the islands. 

Actually, this CIDS is quite weird. It uses a rocket with a CEP of 10m, so it doesn't sound that great against a surface vessel. But I wonder what's the speed of these EXTRA and Accular rockets? Rockets doesnt do sea skim, but I their speed can make up for it.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> The Accular missile is more accurate than Extra, it can be used to hit the landing boats.



True, and more Accular rockets can be packed on the same size launcher. 

Oh, I gotta log off.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yea it might be a mixture of fixed launchers and mobile trucks.
> 
> It seems like there is a possibility for other ship based weapons to be integrated into this CIDS. The whole system is totally networked. If they can integrate the KH-35 (ship base) in the future, then this island defense system is pretty solid.



Most likely they can integrate it with KH-35, but the thing is, these islands are very small, the KH-35 launcher truck is not that small and easy to hide, but it would be good. Another advantage of the Extra is that its much cheaper than a missile.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> They can be integrated on the rumored GSL OPV hybrid perhaps? or on smaller stealth FAC. The 150km range is pretty good. These ships dont need to be close to the islands.
> 
> Actually, this CIDS is quite weird. It uses a rocket with a CEP of 10m, so it doesn't sound that great against a surface vessel. But I wonder what's the speed of these EXTRA and Accular rockets? Rockets doesnt do sea skim, but I their speed can make up for it.



If they integrate the Extra in a ship, in my opinion its better in an small ship and maybe a ship already set up for that system.

I think the 10 m CEP of Extra is good to hit the larger ships, the mother ships and it has the range for that anyway. The Accular (40 km range) is to hit the small landing boats.

Frankly, I think the system is designed quite well, you have 2 rockets / missiles, one for large targets and one for small targets. The system is very cost effective, cheaper than actual missiles, quite good for an small island.

The final defensive layer is anti tank rockets / missiles, recoilless anti tank guns, VN has plenty of those, so you end up with a 3 layer defensive system and is all based on the islands themselves.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Most likely they can integrate it with KH-35, but the thing is, these islands are very small, the KH-35 launcher truck is not that small and easy to hide, but it would be good. Another advantage of the Extra is that its much cheaper than a missile.



What I meant was to integrate it with the KH-35s on the Molniyas and Gepards and link them together using MPAs or satellite. The Mol/Gepards can be over 100km away or even over 200km if the KH-35 gets upgraded. But I still doubt it given the different Russian and Israeli system. 

OK, I gotta go.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> What I meant was to integrate it with the KH-35s on the Molniyas and Gepards and link them together using MPAs or satellite. The Mol/Gepards can be over 100km away or even over 200km if the KH-35 gets upgraded. But I still doubt it given the different Russian and Israeli system.
> 
> OK, I gotta go.



Ahhh good idea. Good night mate.


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## SrNair

Carlosa said:


> Of course, that's the whole idea. Right now there is only one port / base and that's South Cay, the next one will be Sin Cowe island where they are building a port. Next will probably be West London reef where they are doing land reclamation. I imagine they need to also do it in Big Spratly island eventually since that's the biggest island.
> 
> VN needs small ships to base in the islands. The Molniyas would be ideal there, missile boats would also be good.
> 
> VN needs to do like China, land reclamation and build and build........



Bro ,China is suddenly start to claiming others land because they know others cant challenge them .With 4 trillion$ reserve and huge manufacturing capability they will try to reclaim others land and build .Vietnam or India cant behave like that because we dont have resources for that.

A new type of GSL OPV is commissioned .I think that would be your VN choice.

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## Carlosa

sreekumar said:


> Bro ,China is suddenly start to claiming others land because they know others cant challenge them .With 4 trillion$ reserve and huge manufacturing capability they will try to reclaim others land and build .Vietnam or India cant behave like that because we dont have resources for that.
> 
> A new type of GSL OPV is commissioned .I think that would be your VN choice.



You are right, I just saw your post and sent you a message. Thank you mate.

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Ok, so comcom is the best one (as I expected), there are many others, but they just show a few things only or don't post too often. The one that I used as the best second one is facebook.com/GiaoducQP.
> 
> Is there any website where I can watch the QPVN Channel live online, meaning the whole thing, all day long?


well, don't know, I don't like com com much, because their troll post in past or some infos are incorrect ...

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> If they integrate the Extra in a ship, in my opinion its better in an small ship and maybe a ship already set up for that system.
> 
> I think the 10 m CEP of Extra is good to hit the larger ships, the mother ships and it has the range for that anyway. The Accular (40 km range) is to hit the small landing boats.
> 
> Frankly, I think the system is designed quite well, you have 2 rockets / missiles, one for large targets and one for small targets. The system is very cost effective, cheaper than actual missiles, quite good for an small island.
> 
> The final defensive layer is anti tank rockets / missiles, recoilless anti tank guns, VN has plenty of those, so you end up with a 3 layer defensive system and is all based on the islands themselves.



OK just found out the EXTRA rockets are supersonic and can take mid-course guidance. 

Yea this system is like a cheaper version of the Bal-E or Bastion-P. Since the rockets are cheaper, the system can spam these launchers all around the island. The video shows a launcher with 4 missile tube.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> OK just found out the EXTRA rockets are supersonic and can take mid-course guidance.
> 
> Yea this system is like a cheaper version of the Bal-E or Bastion-P. Since the rockets are cheaper, the system can spam these launchers all around the island. The video shows a launcher with 4 missile tube.



Yes, its a system that is actually well optimized and cost effective to defend an small island. Can't afford (and its not practical anyway) to place a Bal-E or Bastion-P in each island. This system is very well though out.  for the Israelis.

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## Viet

the russian bear returns. during the visit of communist chief to russia, both vietnam and russia signed 9 important agreements, among them vietnam simplifies the access procedure for russian warships to the cam ranh bay.

russian warships can receive logistic services, repair, maintenance and/or refuelling. navy commanding officers can leave ships and go ashore to rest.

Đơn giản hóa thủ tục cho tàu chiến Nga vào Cam Ranh - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

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## Viet

pic of Orbiter 2

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## Viet

History

*China Military Technology & Dai Viet (1390-1497)*
from Sun Laichen (University of Singapore)

http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_011.pdf

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> History
> 
> *China Military Technology & Dai Viet (1390-1497)*
> from Sun Laichen (University of Singapore)
> 
> http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps03_011.pdf



What is the purpose of posting this?

Are you going to convince people that the invention of the gunpowder should be given the credit to Vietnam?

I am telling you that China's gunpowder invention in fact predated the Ming Dynasty by 300 years, and there is no such thing that China learned the gunpowder from Vietnam during the Ming Dynasty.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> What is the *purpose *of posting this?
> 
> Are you going to convince people that the invention of the gunpowder should be given the credit to Vietnam?
> 
> I am telling you that China's gunpowder invention in fact predated the Ming Dynasty by 300 years, and there is no such thing that China learned the gunpowder from Vietnam during the Ming Dynasty.


the purpose?

have you read the article? it tells Dai Viet military technology in the 14-15 centuries. the wars of Vietnam against imperial China (Ming Dynasty), Champa Kingdom, south and westward military campaigns against local rivals including Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma and Malacca. as for gunpower, it was China, that invented the gunpowder and firearms. Dai Viet imported the technology. That is clear, your credit.

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## Viet

the Gepard warships visit Song Tử Tây island.

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## AViet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> What is the purpose of posting this?
> 
> Are you going to convince people that the invention of the gunpowder should be given the credit to Vietnam?
> 
> I am telling you that China's gunpowder invention in fact predated the Ming Dynasty by 300 years, and there is no such thing that China learned the gunpowder from Vietnam during the Ming Dynasty.


 
Can you clarify why was Ho Nguyen Trung (eldest son of Emperor Ho Quy Ly) promoted to Minister of Industry in Ming Court after Ho dynasty in Vietnam was collapsed by invasion of Ming troops and he was brought to China. Was that not a proof that Vietnamese gun technology was somewhat superior than Chinese one at that time, because Ho Nguyen Trung is given credit in Vietnam as great inventor/engineer on building and cannon manufacturing?

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## Soryu

Not new pics, but I want to repost it a bit, hope she will come in same time with new Gepard :

This is 105.14 for Indonesia navy, 98.14 has almost same shape and specificity like this, but less in size and weight.
















*Vietnamese version (2 version)* and has Marlin WS gun instead Oerlikon 35mm naval gun :













*New Gepard* with SSM in VLS:

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Not new pics, but I want to repost it a bit, hope she will come in same time with new Gepard :
> 
> This is 105.14 for Indonesia navy, 98.14 has almost same shape and specificity like this, but less in size and weight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnamese version (2 version)* and has Marlin WS gun instead Oerlikon 35mm naval gun :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *New Gepard* with SSM in VLS:
> 
> View attachment 160415
> 
> View attachment 160416



The Russian version of the Gepard with the VLS and a full hangar would it had been nice for Vietnam, I wonder how much it is, higher cost is probably the reason why VN didn't go for that, too bad.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The Russian version of the Gepard with the VLS and a full hangar would it had been nice for Vietnam, I wonder how much it is, higher cost is probably the reason why VN didn't go for that, too bad.


Probably the Gepard with VLS and a full hangar is new developed version and did not exist when the navy placed the order.


_here a report of our well-known vietnam observer Carl Thayer. I add some pics of the Gepards to the article._


*Vietnam’s Navy Crosses the Line*
Vietnam is stepping up its defense cooperation, particularly on maritime issues, with friends near and far.





By Carl Thayer
December 02, 2014

In mid-November Vietnam dispatched two of its most modern warships on an unprecedented three-nation goodwill visit to Indonesia, Brunei and the Philippines.

On November 5, two _Gepard_-class guided missile frigates, the _Dinh Tien Hoang _(HQ 011) and the _Ly Thai To_(HQ 012) weighed anchor at Cam Ranh Bay and set sail for Jakarta’s Tanjung Priok port crossing the equator (the line) while enroute. The ships embarked a complement of two hundred and twenty-eight officers and sailors under the command of Rear Admiral Nguyen Van Kiem, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army Navy. The frigates also embarked a naval Ka-28 anti-submarine helicopter, a first for the Vietnamese Navy on a goodwill visit.






















The dispatch of the _Gepard_-class frigates is a clear indication that Vietnam has decided to step up its defense diplomacy. The goodwill visit to Southeast Asia is in reciprocation of port visits by warships from Brunei, Indonesia and the Philippines to Vietnam. According to the _People’s Army_ newspaper, the purpose of the visit was to “build trust and enhance friendship, cooperation and mutual understanding and confidence between the People’s Army Navy and the navies of Indonesia, Brunei and the Philippines.”

Earlier in March, Vietnam dispatched a hospital ship (HQ 561) to participate in Exercise Komodo a multilateral naval exercise held under the auspices of the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) defense ministers and their eight dialogue partners (ADMM Plus) and hosted by Indonesia.

The Vietnamese flotilla arrived at Tanjung Priok on November 12 and paid a three-day friendly visit. Their program included formal welcoming ceremonies and reciprocal dinners, official meetings with their Indonesian Navy hosts, a courtesy call on local authorities, a visit to an Indonesian naval ship, and volleyball and soccer matches between crews. On the morning of their departure the Vietnamese ships participated in a search and rescue exercise with their Indonesian counterparts.

The frigates’ next port of call was Muara, Brunei Darussalam where they arrived on November 19. This marked the first occasion that Vietnamese navy ships visited Brunei. Earlier, in April, the Royal Brunei Navy’s Offshore Patrol Vessel, KDN _Daruleshan,_ made Brunei’s first good will visit to the port of Hai Phong.

In December 2013 Vietnam and Brunei signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on bilateral naval cooperation and later agreed to a naval “hot line.” According to the _People’s Army_ newspaper, the armed forces of Vietnam and Brunei “boosted their cooperation in exchanging visits of delegations at all levels, sharing intelligence and information, training cadets, joint search and rescue and anti-piracy.”

The three-day port call included reciprocal ship visits and sporting events. On November 20, Rear Admiral Kiem paid a courtesy calls on the Chief of the Royal Brunei Navy and the Commander of the Royal Brunei Armed Forces. The Vietnamese frigates departed on November 21.

On November 24, the Vietnamese frigates docked at South Harbor, Manila for their third and final port visit. This marked the first time that Vietnamese warships visited the Philippines since Vietnam was reunified in 1975. The Vietnamese commander invited the diplomatic community to inspect the frigates.

Rear Admiral Kiem paid courtesy calls on the Vice Commander of the Philippine Navy Rear Admiral Caesar Taccad. He later called on the Chief of the Manila Police. As in Indonesia, the Vietnamese warships joined their Philippines counterparts in a search and rescue operation. The frigates departed on November 26.

In October 2010, the armed forces of Vietnam and the Republic of the Philippines signed a MOU on defense cooperation. A year later the two navies signed an MOU on enhancing bilateral relations and sharing information. Relations took another step forward in March 2012 when the parties adopted Standard Operating Procedures on Personnel Interaction in the vicinity of the Northeast Cay Island the Southeast Cay Island.

In March, the two navies established a working group and adopted a defense cooperation program for 2014-15. Three months later Vietnamese military personnel stationed on Southwest Cay hosted a social interaction with their Filipino counterparts on Northeast Cay. The two sides are now working on inaugurating a bilateral defense dialogue at deputy minister level.

Bilateral naval cooperation between the Philippines and Vietnam commenced in 1999 when both parties signed a MOU on defense cooperation. Since then the two navies have carried out coordinated patrols, exchanged information, set up naval “hot lines” and cooperated in dealing with illegal fishing.

During 2014 Vietnam also promoted defense cooperation with other regional states. In August, the _People’s Army_ newspaper revealed that Singapore hosted a Vietnamese navy team in counter-terrorism exercises in the Gulf of Aden. On November 24, Vietnam’s Deputy Defense Minister and Chief of the Navy, Admiral Nguyen Van Hien, hosted a visit by the Chief of the Royal Thai Navy, Admiral Chansuvanich. Admiral Hien suggested Vietnam and Thailand strengthen naval cooperation in such areas as human resource training, logistics and technology.

In addition to the good will visit by Vietnamese frigates to Southeast Asia, Vietnam hosted the French Navy frigate _Vendémiaire_ at Tien Sa port, Da Nang from November 15-19. The visit came under the framework of their bilateral defense cooperation plan for 2014. The French frigate joined Vietnamese naval forces for a search and rescue exercise.

On November 18, Vietnam’s Navy Command held a conference to review domestic construction of Project 1241 Tarantul-class or _Molniya_ corvettes at Ba Son Shipyards under a 2009 contract with the Russian Almaz Central Design Bureau. Two corvettes, HQ 377 and HQ 378, were handed over in June after successfully completing live-fire exercises. The conference decided to continue with the construction of the remaining four corvettes.

On November 20, _Thanh Nien_ newspaper reported that Vietnam would take delivery of its third enhanced Kilo-class submarine, HQ 194 _Hai Phong,_ in early December.

Finally, on November 27, the Russian news agency TASS reported that Vietnam and Russia signed an intergovernmental agreement easing restrictions on the entry of Russian warships into Cam Ranh Bay. This agreement follows a similar understanding negotiated by Russia and Syria for entry into Tartus port. The agreement was signed during the visit of Nguyen Phu Trong, Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party (VCP), to Russia. According to a Russian Defense Ministry source, in future Russian warships will only have to notify port authorities immediately prior to their arrival.

The Russia-Vietnam agreement will privilege the Russian navy vis-à-vis all other navies that visit Vietnam. Although Vietnam has invited all navies to utilize the commercial facilities at Cam Ranh Bay, the Russian navy is being given special access due to Russia’s status as a comprehensive strategic partner and assistance in standing up Vietnam’s submarine fleet.

Russia and Vietnam are now discussing an agreement on a logistics center in Cam Ranh Bay for the Russian Navy on terms similar to another agreement between Russia and Syria related to Tartus.

Vietnam’s step up in defense cooperation in 2014 is a result of guidelines issued by the Ministry of National Defense and Politburo resolution no. 22 (April 10, 2013) on international integration (_Nghị quyết của Bộ Chính trị về hội nhập quốc tế_). Resolution no. 22, part III, lists the following as the third of five courses of action to be undertaken: “Enhance bilateral cooperation activities in defense and security with neighboring countries, ASEAN countries, major powers, traditional friends; gradually deepen and raise the effectiveness of cooperation.”

The Vietnam Navy’s uptick in defense cooperation comes at a propitious time. In December the VCP will convene the tenth plenum of the Central Committee. This meeting will give guidance on major policy documents to be submitted to the twelfth national party congress scheduled for early 2016. It is highly likely the national party congress will endorse an increase in defense spending and give priority to the continued modernization of the navy and air force and international defense cooperation.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Probably the Gepard with VLS and a full hangar is new developed version and did not exist when the navy placed the order..



Oh no, they had that version, in fact, that was the first version for the Russian navy. Here is what it looks like:
The VLS at the front is the Shtil air defense system.

There is no doubt in my mind that VN decided to go cheap with the Gepards, the fact that they didn't get the anti sub package is almost criminal. They were probably worried about another mistake like with the BPS-500 / KBO 2000 program, so they bought a minimum package.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Oh no, they had that version, in fact, that was the first version for the Russian navy. Here is what it looks like:
> The VLS at the front is the Shtil air defense system.
> 
> There is no doubt in my mind that VN decided to go cheap with the Gepards, the fact that they didn't get the anti sub package is almost criminal. They were probably worried about another mistake like with the BPS-500 / KBO 2000 program, so they bought a minimum package.
> 
> View attachment 160661


ok, luckily the next two gepards will have more firepower than the current ones, full package against enemy surface warships, submarines and fighter jets.

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Oh no, they had that version, in fact, that was the first version for the Russian navy. Here is what it looks like:
> The VLS at the front is the Shtil air defense system.
> 
> There is no doubt in my mind that VN decided to go cheap with the Gepards, the fact that they didn't get the anti sub package is almost criminal. They were probably worried about another mistake like with the BPS-500 / KBO 2000 program, so they bought a minimum package.





Carlosa said:


> The Russian version of the Gepard with the VLS and a full hangar would it had been nice for Vietnam, I wonder how much it is, higher cost is probably the reason why VN didn't go for that, too bad.





Viet said:


> Probably the Gepard with VLS and a full hangar is new developed version and did not exist when the navy placed the order.



Carlosa got the point with "BPS-500 case", surely, Vietnam MoD was worry about cost overrun and delay on delivery time. 

First two Gepard is sample, we placed order in 2007, and it's take Russian shipyard more than 3 year to completed 2 ships.
That is reasons which we don't chose VLS version or project 20382 "Tigr" ( _Steregushchy_ class had problems with supply system). Plus, UKSK VLS is new system, still not mature at that time. 

Now, those system were install on many ships of Russian navy, we can expect the same on our modified ships.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Carlosa got the point with "BPS-500 case", surely, Vietnam MoD was worry about cost overrun and delay on delivery time.
> 
> First two Gepard is sample, we placed order in 2007, and it's take Russian shipyard more than 3 year to completed 2 ships.
> That is reasons which we don't chose VLS version or project 20382 "Tigr" ( _Steregushchy_ class had problems with supply system). Plus, UKSK VLS is new system, still not mature at that time.
> 
> Now, those system were install on many ships of Russian navy, we can expect the same on our modified ships.



If I understand you correctly, are you saying that VN plans to upgrade the 2 current Gepards with some of those systems?


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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> If I understand you correctly, are you saying that VN plans to upgrade the 2 current Gepards with some of those systems?



I think so, base on this pic, we can expect it for real:







The ship has UKSK VLS for Klub-S missiles which we bought from Russia along with project 636 _Varshavyanka class _submarine.


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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> I think so, base on this pic, we can expect it for real:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ship has UKSK VLS for Klub-S missiles which we bought from Russia along with project 636 _Varshavyanka class _submarine.



Oh that's nice, it should be not much problem to adapt the UKSK VLS system and move out the Palma to the back. Do you know if they plan to add the torpedo package also? I think they can find space for that.

We are always talking about upgrading the 2 current Gepards, not about new ships, right?



Carlosa said:


> If I understand you correctly, are you saying that VN plans to upgrade the 2 current Gepards with some of those systems?



What happened to the old rumor of VN buying the license to make the Gepards in VN? Is that ever going to happen or should we forget about it?


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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Oh that's nice, it should be not much problem to adapt the UKSK VLS system and move out the Palma to the back. Do you know if they plan to add the torpedo package also? I think they can find space for that.
> 
> We are always talking about upgrading the 2 current Gepards, not about new ships, right?
> 
> What happened to the old rumor of VN buying the license to make the Gepards in VN? Is that ever going to happen or should we forget about it?



Oh, sorry, my bad, mistake again, I saying about new ships, old two Gepard will need many modified to fit upgrade kit, so better option is buy new one.

The upgrade that we can expect for Gepard (HQ-11, HQ-12) is replace AK-630 in rear ship with Barak-1 or Palma CIWS.

Don't know about Gepard build by Vietnam, but I think SIGMA is very possible, we will still import radar, electronic, engine, and sub system from Western, but can replace SSM with domestic Uran if we can modify FCS system with help from Thales.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Oh, sorry, my bad, mistake again, I saying about new ships, old two Gepard will need many modified to fit upgrade kit, so better option is buy new one.
> 
> The upgrade that we can expect for Gepard (HQ-11, HQ-12) is replace AK-630 in rear ship with Barak-1 or Palma CIWS.
> 
> Don't know about Gepard build by Vietnam, but I think SIGMA is very possible, we will still import radar, electronic, engine, and sub system from Western, but can replace SSM with domestic Uran if we can modify FCS system with help from Thales.



Oh ok, so..... are you saying that the 2 Gepards in the second batch that is on order are going to look like in your picture?

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Oh ok, so..... are you saying that the 2 Gepards in the second batch that is on order are going to look like in your picture?


I think so, I remember some staff from GDQP fb page implied that in few comment on TTVOL forum.
Official news from Vietnam and Russian shipyard that we have ASW capable on new Gepard, best thing I can expect in that pic .

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> I think so, I remember some staff from GDQP fb page implied that in few comment on TTVOL forum.
> Official news from Vietnam and Russian shipyard that we have ASW capable on new Gepard, best thing I can expect in that pic .



That's not bad man, the ASW capability was already well known, but VLS for Club, that's a surprise to me because at the time of the order people were saying that it would be no VLS system.

I hope you are right about the VLS. 

Another thing that was not clear, some people said that it might have the Packet-E anti torpedo system, but I don't know.

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## BoQ77

Vietnam Su30MK2

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## Barmaley

Admiralty Shipyards provide Vietnamese Navy with third Project 636.1 submarine
15:34 December 5, 2014 Interfax

Admiralty Shipyards (which is part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation) in St. Petersburg have provided the Vietnamese Navy with the third of the six Project 636.1 diesel-electric submarines ordered by Vietnam, the Russian shipbuilding industry told Interfax-AVN.

*"An act of technical acceptance of the submarine was signed on Thursday,"* the source said.

Admiralty Shipyards is now expecting a barge to take the submarine to Cam Ranh, where it will be based. "The submarine, which is called the Hai Phong, will be sent to Vietnam tentatively by December 10," the source said.

The contract for the supply of six Project 636.1diesel-electric submarines to Vietnam was signed in 2009 during a visit to Moscow by Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung. Besides the construction of submarines, the contract envisages the training of Vietnamese crews and the supply of the necessary equipment and technical property. 

The first and the second, the Vietnamese Hanoi and the Ho Chi Minh submarines are now in Cam Ranh.

The fourth submarine of the series began builders' sea trials in mid June. The keel of the sixth submarine was laid in late May.

Project 636.1 diesel-electric submarines are third-generation submarines. They are equipped with a Club anti-boat missile system, which considerably expands the splash zone. Due to their super-low noise level, submarines of this class have been called "black hole submarines" in the West.

The Hai Phong port was used by Soviet vessels carrying aid to the people of Vietnam to unload their cargo during the war between Vietnam and the U.S.

Admiralty Shipyards provide Vietnamese Navy with third Project 636.1 submarine | Russia Beyond The Headlines

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## Carlosa

The 4th sub will come at the beginning of 2015.
The 5th sub will come at the end of 2015.
The 6th sub will come at the beginning of 2016.

The 2nd batch of 2 Molniya ships will be delivered in the 2nd quarter of 2015
The 3rd batch of 2 Molniya ships will be delivered in the 2nd quarter of 2016

The 2 Gepards will be delivered by the end of 2016

That's the latest schedule.

I believe the 2 Sigmas will be delivered in 2016 and 2017, but I haven't seen any official schedule.

2016 is the key year for the completion of 3 naval programs.

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## cnleio

Su30mkv

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Su30mkv
> 
> View attachment 161594


I wonder why the airforce does not build hardened aircraft shelter? such open hangar full of aircraft is very vulnerable.


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> I wonder why the airforce does not build hardened aircraft shelter? such open hangar full of aircraft is very vulnerable.


Yes, the tropical humid air has more salinity than high latitude areas. I can't answer this question, coz i saw ur Su-22 also stay in open hangar for many years.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The 4th sub will come at the beginning of 2015.
> The 5th sub will come at the end of 2015.
> The 6th sub will come at the beginning of 2016.
> 
> The 2nd batch of 2 Molniya ships will be delivered in the 2nd quarter of 2015
> The 3rd batch of 2 Molniya ships will be delivered in the 2nd quarter of 2016
> 
> The 2 Gepards will be delivered by the end of 2016
> 
> That's the latest schedule.
> 
> I believe the 2 Sigmas will be delivered in 2016 and 2017, but I haven't seen any official schedule.
> 
> 2016 is the key year for the completion of 3 naval programs.


nice summary, bro. thoughconsidering the strength of chinese naval fleet, I think this figure is still too low. we need more assets at sea, especially more subs. seems the russians can build subs very quickly.



cnleio said:


> Yes, the tropical humid air has more salinity than high latitude areas. I can't answer this question, coz i saw ur Su-22 also stay in open hangar for many years.


well, not only our SU-22 but other aircraft types are stored in open hangars. terrible. everybody knows hardened aircraft shelter provide some degrees of protection against enemy attacks. In 1967, Israeli launched a preemptive strike on Egypt and destroyed nearly all egyptian aircraft on the ground.

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> well, not only our SU-22 but other aircraft types are stored in open hangars. terrible. everybody knows hardened aircraft shelter provide some degrees of protection against enemy attacks. In 1967, Israeli launched a preemptive strike on Egypt and destroyed nearly all egyptian aircraft on the ground.
> View attachment 161748


They just without "Smart" Bomb

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> They just without "Smart" Bomb
> View attachment 161801


well, hardened aircraft shelter just provides some degrees of protection against aerial attacks, surely, not against a direct hit of such armored piercing bomb.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

cnleio said:


> Su30mkv
> 
> View attachment 161594



These their G suites? wtf...


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## Viet

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> These their G suites? wtf...


bad or what? think twice before you answer or else... 





some pics from facebook

Su-100 tank destroyers. unbelieveable, but the tanks are active.










visit of a korean warship

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## Fsjal

Viet said:


> bad or what? think twice before you answer or else...
> View attachment 161811


She's pretty. 

But is she an officer cadet or something?


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## jamahir

Fsjal said:


> She's pretty.
> 
> But is she an officer cadet or something?



she is indeed lovely... she should become more voluptuous, she will seem more lovely... a vietnamese belly dancer...

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> nice summary, bro. thoughconsidering the strength of chinese naval fleet, I think this figure is still too low. we need more assets at sea, especially more subs. seems the russians can build subs very quickly.
> 
> 
> well, not only our SU-22 but other aircraft types are stored in open hangars. terrible. everybody knows hardened aircraft shelter provide some degrees of protection against enemy attacks. In 1967, Israeli launched a preemptive strike on Egypt and destroyed nearly all egyptian aircraft on the ground.
> View attachment 161748



Yes, of course. They are already looking into more subs, Amur 950 and 1650.

Those programs are just a first step, have to start somewhere bro.

I agree about the lack of hardened shelters, every little bit helps.


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## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> She's pretty.
> 
> But is she an officer cadet or something?


Yes, but that's two year ago, I think she become police officer now.

C-295 already come to Vietnam

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## Fsjal

Soryu said:


> Yes, but that's two year ago, I think she go to police officer now.


Oh, she's police.

Military police, am I right?


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## Soryu

Fsjal said:


> Oh, she's police.
> 
> Military police, am I right?


No, just normal police ...

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## BoQ77

Soryu said:


> Yes, but that's two year ago, I think she become police officer now.
> 
> C-295 already come to Vietnam



early than expected

this one






and next

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## NarThoD

Viet said:


> bad or what? think twice before you answer or else...
> 
> 
> 
> Su-100 tank destroyers. unbelieveable, but the tanks are active.
> View attachment 161821


ww2 remains? how you guys maintaning it? do the russians still produced its part after 60 years? and how many which still running?

man vietnam should really consider these beasts






actually i prefer T-90's rather than Leopards  but in the end it doesn't even matter

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## Carlosa

NarThoD said:


> ww2 remains? how you guys maintaning it? do the russians still produced its part after 60 years? and how many which still running?
> 
> man vietnam should really consider these beasts
> 
> View attachment 162204
> 
> 
> actually i prefer T-90's rather than Leopards  but in the end it doesn't even matter



The T-90 is already in the bag, but no official announcement yet.



BoQ77 said:


> early than expected
> 
> this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and next



From my homeland to my new home. Not bad, more to come.


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## Viet

NarThoD said:


> ww2 remains? how you guys maintaning it? do the russians still produced its part after 60 years? and how many which still running?


that is not secret. vietnamese people are famous for using things until they fell apart after 100 years. we maintain the tanks very well, and keep them operational despite their ages. our army factories can produce spare parts and technicians can repair the tanks. how many tanks we have today in operation? some foreign sources guess we have more than 3,000 tanks. that is a realistic number.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, of course. They are already looking into more subs, Amur 950 and 1650.
> 
> Those programs are just a first step, have to start somewhere bro.
> 
> I agree about the lack of hardened shelters, every little bit helps.


man I can´t wait to hear the navy places the order for the amur.

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## BoQ77

Just arrival !!! C-295M

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Just arrival !!! CN-295



Ole !!!

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## William Hung

Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range. 

BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:



> Vietnam has very limited defence industrial capabilities in the air domain, largely restricted to the reverse-engineering of aircraft spares. Beyond this, Vietnam has been linked to technology transfer/offset deals with Russia over indigenous involvement in the production of 9M39 Igla (SA-18 'Grouse') surface-to-air missiles and SS-N-26 Yakhont anti-ship missiles.



Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range.
> 
> BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?



The version that has the winglets is the C-295W, that version started production sometime in 2014 (but I don't know exactly when), the one just received started production before that.
It also has uprated engines.

There were rumors that Vietnam asked for a joint project for the Yakhont, but I had not seen concrete evidence so far; the thing is, VN is using very few of those so far to justify local production I think, but I don't know what plans they might have.



BoQ77 said:


> Just arrival !!! CN-295QUOTE]



Does anybody know what happened to the first batch of 4 SU-30MK2 that were supposed to be delivered before the end of the year? Delayed?

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> There were rumors that Vietnam asked for a joint project for the Yakhont, but I had not seen concrete evidence so far; the thing is, VN is using very few of those so far to justify local production I think, but I don't know what plans they might have.



The rumours has reached Jane's, or maybe they've got the Uran and Yakhont mixed up.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range.
> 
> BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?



I suspect that since there was no movement with the Brahmos, VN was pushing for an arrangement for the Yakhont similar to what Russia is doing with India where in addition to self producing the missile in Vietnam, the missile will also be improved and customized in a fashion somewhat similar to Brahmos. As I remember, the Russians were either moving very slowly on that project or stalling. That's all the info I've seen.

Anybody else have some more info? @Soryu @BoQ77 @Viet



Black Flag said:


> The rumours has reached Jane's, or maybe they've got the Uran and Yakhont mixed up.



I think Jane's will not make a mistake like that, but could be.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I suspect that since there was no movement with the Brahmos, VN was pushing for an arrangement for the Yakhont similar to what Russia is doing with India where in addition to self producing the missile in Vietnam, the missile will also be improved and customized in a fashion somewhat similar to Brahmos. As I remember, the Russians were either moving very slowly on that project or stalling. That's all the info I've seen.
> 
> Anybody else have some more info? @Soryu @BoQ77 @Viet



If it is true, then it will be for extending the range. The domestic Onyx version of the Yakhont is already well over 300KM. But since the Uran program has already moved ahead, it will be strange to run another missile program. 



> I think Jane's will not make a mistake like that, but could be.



Yea, Jane's is usually more accurate than say SIPRI. Jane's sometime use insiders info too. SIPRI policy is to only use open access info that are readily available to the public, and you know how reliable those open access info are sometime. 

So I'm quite puzzle about this info from Jane's.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Congrats on the C295. But why aren't there any winglet installed? they are cheap and simple but increases fuel efficiency and range.


don´t know, maybe the parts come later. or the winglets come from our factories.

Airbus Chooses Vietnam to Produce Its Airplane’s Spare-parts
_The production will be started from August, 2014. Nikkiso Vietnam will produce composite spars for wings and composite shields for wingtips of the Sharklet device. These devices help save 4% of fuel consumption and are particular characteristics used in A320 aircrafts- the best seller in the world._


Black Flag said:


> BTW, I've found this little paragraph in a new Jane's article:
> Is this true? or is the article mistaken the Uran program for the Yakhont?


it is known that the army negotiates for technology transfer of yakhont since years, with unknown outcome. well, that is nice, if the russians finally agree.



Carlosa said:


> Does anybody know what happened to the first batch of 4 SU-30MK2 that were supposed to be delivered before the end of the year? Delayed?


Kommersant newspaper says either november or december this year. seem we have to wait a bit longer.
Nga bán 4 chiến đấu cơ Su-30MK2 cho Việt Nam - VTC News

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> If it is true, then it will be for extending the range. The domestic Onyx version of the Yakhont is already well over 300KM. But since the Uran program has already moved ahead, it will be strange to run another missile program.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, Jane's is usually more accurate than say SIPRI. Jane's sometime use insiders info too. SIPRI policy is to only use open access info that are readily available to the public, and you know how reliable those open access info are sometime.
> 
> So I'm quite puzzle about this info from Jane's.



The actual range of Yakhon is more like up to 500 km, but its software limited to 300 km for export.
Viet is correct, VN has been negotiating for it for some time, but we don't know the results.

It makes a lot of sense to have the 2 programs because one is subsonic and the other one is supersonic, that would be a double combo tech transfer.

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## Viet

a hypothetical question: when will we be capable to operate aircraft carrier?
Bao giờ Việt Nam có tàu sân bay? | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> a hypothetical question: when will we be capable to operate aircraft carrier?
> Bao giờ Việt Nam có tàu sân bay? | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng



You only mean to operate, not to afford, and you are assuming that there is a budget to operate and maintain the carrier right?

What type of carrier? Small? This is an Spanish carrier and amphibious assault ship, it operates 24 helos and Harriers (F-35 later), Spain has 1 and they sold 2 to Australia and 1 to Turkey. This is not too expensive, less than 1 billion, plus aircraft, very reasonable, about $100 million a year to operate and maintain (in Spain), 27,000 tons, 230 meters long.

The KA-28 ASW helicopter is 12-14 million. The carrier can be used as a ASW platform plus amphibious assault (it has a well deck inside for landing boats) as well as helicopter assault (good to storm islands in SCS). For amphibious assault it carries 913 soldiers and 46 tanks (Leopard 2), not bad at all.

VN is already buying from Spain, so no problem to buy it, its 100% made in Spain, so there is no issues.

This carrier at 1 billion (maybe less) and 24 KA-28's would be about $1.3 billion. Its affordable for Vietnam if they want it, but it would need AEGIS type destroyers to protect it.

By the way, did you know that Spain makes the cheapest AEGIS destroyer anywhere? 1.1 billion, half the price of a Burke.

Carriers bigger than this, it gets seriously expensive, the Gerald Ford is 12 billion plus billions for the aircraft and super expensive to operate and maintain.

Did I answer your questions?












Here you see it with 4 Spanish made AEGIS destroyers. Australia also bought 3 of those AEGIS destroyers, they call them the Hobart class, in Spain is the F-100 class. Spain has 5.

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> I suspect that since there was no movement with the Brahmos, VN was pushing for an arrangement for the Yakhont similar to what Russia is doing with India where in addition to self producing the missile in Vietnam, the missile will also be improved and customized in a fashion somewhat similar to Brahmos. As I remember, the Russians were either moving very slowly on that project or stalling. That's all the info I've seen.
> 
> Anybody else have some more info? @Soryu @BoQ77 @Viet
> 
> I think Jane's will not make a mistake like that, but could be.



Not sure, there was info about tech transfer deal from 2012, but no more info.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You only mean to operate, not to afford, and you are assuming that there is a budget to operate and maintain the carrier right?
> 
> What type of carrier? Small? This is an Spanish carrier and amphibious assault, it operates 24 helos and Harriers (F-35 later), Spain has 1 and they sold 2 to Australia and 1 to Turkey. This is not too expensive, less than 1 billion, plus aircraft, very reasonable, about $100 million a year to operate and maintain (in Spain), 27,000 tons, 230 meters long.
> 
> The KA-28 ASW helicopter is 12-14 million. The carrier can be used as a ASW platform plus amphibious assault (it has a well deck inside for landing boats) as well as helicopter assault (good to storm islands in SCS). For amphibious assault it carries 913 soldiers and 46 tanks (Leopard 2), not bad at all.
> 
> VN is already buying from Spain, so no problem to buy it, its 100% made in Spain, so there is no issues.
> 
> This carrier at 1 billion (maybe less) and 24 KA-28's would be about $1.3 billion. Its affordable for Vietnam if they want it, but it would need AEGIS type destroyers to protect it.
> 
> By the way, did you know that Spain makes the cheapest AEGIS destroyer anywhere? 1.1 billion, half the price of a Burke.
> 
> Carriers bigger than this it gets seriously expensive, the Gerald Ford is 12 billion plus billions for the aircraft and super expensive to operate and maintain.
> 
> Did I answer your questions?
> 
> View attachment 162902
> View attachment 162903
> View attachment 162904
> 
> 
> Here you see it with 4 Spanish made AEGIS destroyers. Australia also bought 3 of those AEGIS destroyers, they call them the Hobart class, in Spain is the F-100 class.
> 
> View attachment 162920


YES, you answered my question. we should think of the long term. for a blue water navy, we will need 1-2 small to medium size aircraft carrier and a fleet of destroyers (6) for the south china sea and western pacific. wow, I like the toys from Spain. Looks fantastic. EXACTLY what we need. Seems your people can build great ships.

¡Viva España!

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> YES, you answered my question. we should think of the long term. for a blue water navy, we will need 1-2 small to medium size aircraft carrier and a fleet of destroyers (6) for the south china sea and western pacific. wow, I like the toys from Spain. Looks fantastic. EXACTLY what we need. Seems your people can build great ships.
> 
> ¡Viva España!



Ha ha, thank you. 
Well, thinking long term, it does make sense. I would say 2 of them, like Australia, 1 can be in port doing maintenance, etc and 1 always available for operations. They can be smaller or larger, that's easy. The cost gets serious when you get into much larger carriers with fighter jets and actually, the main cost even for the set up that Spain and Australia have is not the carriers, they are not that much money, but the escorts, the AEGIS destroyers, that's where the money really is.

The combination carrier / amphibious assault is very cost effective and having a lot of islands to protect (or to retake) it does make sense. Spain operates the carrier with 12 helicopters (ASW or transport for airborne assault) and 12 Sea Harriers that will be replaced with F-35B's later on).

The AEGIS ships from Spain are smaller than the Burke class, not everybody need a big 2 billion destroyer. Spain built what it needed and integrated the AEGIS system in it with a 48 cell VLS that can carry up to 96 missiles (2 air defense missiles per cell) plus 8 Harpoons. That's enough for most countries.
They are 6400 ton ships. 

Yes, when it comes to ships, Spain does quite well and cheaper than most.

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## BoQ77

* Sources claimed that a few days ago, the An-124 has landed and unloaded the first batch of Vietnamese third Su-30MK2 regiments. These aircrafts will stay in familiar air base to wait for their air base to complete its new infrastructure. After the Lunar New Year, these aircrafts will fly to their new home base. By that time, all Air Defense Regions will have at least one regiment of 4th and 4++ gen aircrafts.

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## Viet

a pic of the Kilo #3:
*HQ 184- Hải Phòng*

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## black-hawk_101

Why not Vietnam teams up with Malaysia, Indonesia and Korea?


----------



## BoQ77

black-hawk_101 said:


> Why not Vietnam teams up with Malaysia, Indonesia and Korea?



Why not?

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## black-hawk_101

BoQ77 said:


> Why not?


And also buy stuff from Pakistan.


----------



## BoQ77

black-hawk_101 said:


> And also buy stuff from Pakistan.



do you have something to show ?


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## Viet

black-hawk_101 said:


> Why not Vietnam teams up with Malaysia, Indonesia and Korea?


we welcome military cooperation will all friendly states, but if it comes to a military alliance, it makes only sense if we team up with a military/economics nuclear weapons state superpower. none of those above fulfill these criteria. Malaysia, Indonesia and Korea cannot provide us with the security we need should it come to armed confrontation with China.

the Chinese have no sense of humour if we close a military alliance with America or other great powers NOW.


----------



## Carlosa

black-hawk_101 said:


> Why not Vietnam teams up with Malaysia, Indonesia and Korea?



Team up for what exactly? Arm purchases?



Viet said:


> we welcome military cooperation will all friendly states, but if it comes to a military alliance, it makes only sense if we team up with a military/economics nuclear weapons state superpower. none of those above fulfill these criteria. Malaysia, Indonesia and Korea cannot provide us with the security we need should it come to armed confrontation with China.
> 
> the Chinese have no sense of humour if we close a military alliance with America or other great powers NOW.



Definitely, Korea is not involved at all in the SCS and is certainly not going to get involved. Malaysia? My God, their response to chinese intrusions is to pretend that it didn't happen "Chinese ships in James Shoal? No, we didn't see anything, it didn't happen" Amazing and shameful. Indonesia is neutral at this point.



BoQ77 said:


> * Sources claimed that a few days ago, the An-124 has landed and unloaded the first batch of Vietnamese third Su-30MK2 regiments. These aircrafts will stay in familiar air base to wait for their air base to complete its new infrastructure. After the Lunar New Year, these aircrafts will fly to their new home base. By that time, all Air Defense Regions will have at least one regiment of 4th and 4++ gen aircrafts.



Great news, I've been waiting to hear this.

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## Viet

part of our air defence reminds me of the second world war.









I copy the pics from other VN military thread: (Vietnam) Indochinese troops in France during WW1.
the French were very satisfied with the performance of the Vietnamese as they fought very well on battlefields. seom 50,000 vietnamese soldiers were recruited and deployed to France and other war theaters. After the war, many remained in France married with French women, while the rest returned to Indochina. all of them received benefits such as house, money payments from the French government.

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## World Citizen

Arvola-35 said:


> I ranks Vietnam worse then China in Asia. N.Korea third place.


 why? and ranks on what ?


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## Viet

russia state media "voice of russia" confirms: vietnam possesses air defense systems Tor and Buk.

Nga: Việt Nam sở hữu hệ thống phòng không Tor và Buk - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> russia state media "voice of russia" confirms: vietnam possesses air defense systems Tor and Buk.
> 
> Nga: Việt Nam sở hữu hệ thống phòng không Tor và Buk - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
> View attachment 163958
> 
> 
> View attachment 163959



You got ahead of me, I was about to post the article, very interesting about the Tor, I knew about the Buk, but for the Tor I only knew rumors that were not very solid, so I thought it was a low chance, but no.

@Black Flag So much for SIPRI

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## BoQ77

air defense: range 45km and altitude 25km...
Buk-M2E

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> russia state media "voice of russia" confirms: vietnam possesses air defense systems Tor and Buk.
> 
> Nga: Việt Nam sở hữu hệ thống phòng không Tor và Buk - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
> View attachment 163958
> 
> 
> View attachment 163959



Tor-M2 is a very nice system, everything in 1 vehicle, search radar, tracking radar and 16 missiles. Same idea as the Pantsir but no cannon. I believe the Tor-M2 of Vietnam is on wheels. 12 km range. It can fire at 4 targets at the same time with 2 missiles at each target.

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## Viet

Remarkable, emotional words from Ted Osius, the new US Ambassador to Vietnam and John Kerry, Secretary of State. I´m impressed.

Ted Osius:

"Today marks a dream come true for my family and me. We are deeply grateful for all the support we have received, especially from those of you who are here today….*A strong, prosperous, and independent Vietnam that respects the rule of law and human rights will be a critical partner for the United States on many regional and global challenges *that we face together. That will be my leitmotif as well.”

“The Vietnamese people are the children of two winged creatures: the dragon from the sea and the fairy from the mountains. Through our partnership, we are ready to support the people of Vietnam as they soar higher and farther.”,












John Kerry:

"We’re deepening our people-to-people relationship by sending literally tens of thousands of our students to study in each other’s countries. And we are collaborating on climate change, renewable energy.” He said.

“*Ted is leaving for a Vietnam that is so extraordinarily different from the one that a lot of us got to know when we were younger*, and it’s one of Asia’s great economic success stories and a transformation that is quite remarkable and still underway. Ted Osius was one of the brave Americans who observed this transformation firsthand and helped to make it happen. That’s why you couldn’t have a better ambassador.”

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Remarkable, emotional words from Ted Osius, the new US Ambassador to Vietnam and John Kerry, Secretary of State. I´m impressed.
> 
> Ted Osius:
> 
> "Today marks a dream come true for my family and me. We are deeply grateful for all the support we have received, especially from those of you who are here today….*A strong, prosperous, and independent Vietnam that respects the rule of law and human rights will be a critical partner for the United States on many regional and global challenges *that we face together. That will be my leitmotif as well.”
> 
> “The Vietnamese people are the children of two winged creatures: the dragon from the sea and the fairy from the mountains. Through our partnership, we are ready to support the people of Vietnam as they soar higher and farther.”,
> 
> 
> View attachment 163984
> 
> 
> View attachment 163986
> 
> 
> John Kerry:
> 
> "We’re deepening our people-to-people relationship by sending literally tens of thousands of our students to study in each other’s countries. And we are collaborating on climate change, renewable energy.” He said.
> 
> “*Ted is leaving for a Vietnam that is so extraordinarily different from the one that a lot of us got to know when we were younger*, and it’s one of Asia’s great economic success stories and a transformation that is quite remarkable and still underway. Ted Osius was one of the brave Americans who observed this transformation firsthand and helped to make it happen. That’s why you couldn’t have a better ambassador.”



Nice !!!!!!

By the way, Does anybody know where is nice guy? He got banned again?


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## BoQ77

The US weapon quality always at the state of art.
The Soviet Union learn a lot from what Vietnam take from US and send to them.
From Cobra helo to F4, F5...

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## dichoi

Carlosa said:


> Nice !!!!!!
> 
> By the way, Does anybody know where is nice guy? He got banned again?



He is arrested bcz he belive on Karl Marx too much.

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## BoQ77

dichoi said:


> He is arrested bcz he belive on Karl Marx too much.


he's not nice as the nickname.
extremist I think

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## dichoi

BoQ77 said:


> he's not nice as the nickname.
> extremist I think



I dont think so, he spam with chinese to make fun only.

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## Viet

South Korean destroyer Choe Yeong visits Vietnam, Saigon on December 3, 2014.

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## BoQ77

Vietnam is keen to have first 4000 ton warship.
oliver hazard perry class is not so bad. 250 million for 2, like Taiwan. sound cheap ?
Korean is marketing their self-built warships,

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam is keen to have first 4000 ton warship.
> oliver hazard perry class is not so bad. 250 million for 2, like Taiwan. sound cheap ?,



Already upgraded for that price?


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## Soryu

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam is keen to have first 4000 ton warship.
> oliver hazard perry class is not so bad. 250 million for 2, like Taiwan. sound cheap ?
> Korean is marketing their self-built warships,


It'll not come to real with those old platform.

Korean or Damen 's design will be good for us.



BoQ77 said:


> The US weapon quality always at the state of art.
> The Soviet Union learn a lot from what Vietnam take from US and send to them.
> From Cobra helo to F4, F5...


Any reliable source about that !?


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> russia state media "voice of russia" confirms: vietnam possesses air defense systems Tor and Buk.
> 
> Nga: Việt Nam sở hữu hệ thống phòng không Tor và Buk - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
> View attachment 163958
> 
> 
> View attachment 163959



Viet, can you find the original Russian article that was sourced? I couldn't find the link in your article.



Carlosa said:


> You got ahead of me, I was about to post the article, very interesting about the Tor, I knew about the Buk, but for the Tor I only knew rumors that were not very solid, so I thought it was a low chance, but no.
> 
> @Black Flag So much for SIPRI



Yea, I've only heard about the Tor rumour once. Other than that, it doesn't make sense since the Pantsir is a much more modern system with longer range missiles.

I won't believe this rumour 100% cos I don't fully trust news journalists. Remember when another Russian news article claims that VN had bought 500 T-72 back in 1990? another one said VN is buying 6 Gepards. These news sites sometime makes mistake too.

I think Interfax is the most reliable Russian news source. I'll check their site when I have time. The last article I've read from them, an official from Almaz-Antei was complaining how the US defense industry is now trying to infiltrate the market in VietNam lol. Good news for VN. 

Anyway, I won't be making any serious posts here anymore. I'll just stick to posting fun and non-serious stuff. For serious posts, I'll go over to DF India, I expect less biased mods over there. Hopefully some Indian and Korean members there can give more insights too as their defense export is getting much more serious (with VN and other ASEAN being potentially big clients).



BoQ77 said:


> he's not nice as the nickname.
> extremist I think



NiceGuy is awesome, I like him. I think he is busy making money on the stock market now. 



BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam is keen to have first 4000 ton warship.
> oliver hazard perry class is not so bad. 250 million for 2, like Taiwan. sound cheap ?
> Korean is marketing their self-built warships,



It's even cheaper for Thailand and Mexico. The US is giving the OHP away to them for free. 



Carlosa said:


> Already upgraded for that price?



Yea, refurb and weapons ( mainly Taiwan domestic system) all included. It was $175 million without the refurb and upgrade. 



Soryu said:


> It'll not come to real with those old platform.
> 
> Korean or Damen 's design will be good for us.



Those new ships are expensive. For the price of two OHP class, you can't even buy one Sigma or Ichaeon Class corvette. 

Plus, these OHP class are already in stock, ready for refurb and transfer.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Viet, can you find the original Russian article that was sourced? I couldn't find the link in your article.


sorry, no original link. the article I posted is from a viet controlled state media quoting from a russian state media.


Black Flag said:


> NiceGuy is awesome, I like him. I think he is busy making money on the stock market now.


I think so. the stock market is very hot now, chaos everywhere. I´ve increased the holdings of US stocks. a little bit too early investing more in Chinese mainland stocks.


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## Carlosa

Important news, Vietnam is getting involved in the arbitration tribunal of UNCLOS to defend its position regarding the Philippine's case:

China, Vietnam clash again over South China Sea claims - Yahoo News

BEIJING (Reuters) - China and Vietnam have clashed again over competing claims in the South China Sea, after Vietnam submitted its position to an arbitration tribunal initiated by the Philippines over the festering dispute that involves several countries.

China has said repeatedly it will not participate in the case at the Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague, branding it an underhand attempt to exert political pressure over territory which is inherently Chinese.

China's foreign ministry, in a statement released late on Thursday, called on Vietnam to respect China's sovereignty, which it said had historical basis.

China will not change its position of not taking part in the arbitration, the ministry said.

Vietnam's foreign ministry said it had submitted its point of view to the court to ensure it pays attention to "our legal rights and interests".

Vietnam has historical proof and the legal basis to support its claims, and rejects China's "unilateral" claims, it added.

China has warned Vietnam before against getting involved in the arbitration case, the first time China has been subjected to international legal scrutiny over the waters.

Anti-Chinese violence flared in Vietnam in May after a $1 billion (£635.8 million) deepwater rig owned by China's state-run CNOOC oil company was parked 240 km (150 miles) off the coast of Vietnam.

Since then, though, China has sought to make amends with Vietnam.

China claims about 90 percent of the South China Sea, displaying its reach on official maps with a so-called nine-dash line that stretches deep into the maritime heart of Southeast Asia.

Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have claims to parts of the potentially energy-rich waters that are crossed by key global shipping lanes.

(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Additional reporting by Mai Nguyen in HANOI; Editing by Robert Birsel)



Black Flag said:


> Viet, can you find the original Russian article that was sourced? I couldn't find the link in your article.
> 
> Yea, I've only heard about the Tor rumour once. Other than that, it doesn't make sense since the Pantsir is a much more modern system with longer range missiles.
> 
> I won't believe this rumour 100% cos I don't fully trust news journalists. Remember when another Russian news article claims that VN had bought 500 T-72 back in 1990? another one said VN is buying 6 Gepards. These news sites sometime makes mistake too.
> 
> I think Interfax is the most reliable Russian news source. I'll check their site when I have time. The last article I've read from them, an official from Almaz-Antei was complaining how the US defense industry is now trying to infiltrate the market in VietNam lol. Good news for VN.
> 
> Anyway, I won't be making any serious posts here anymore. I'll just stick to posting fun and non-serious stuff. For serious posts, I'll go over to DF India, I expect less biased mods over there. Hopefully some Indian and Korean members there can give more insights too as their defense export is getting much more serious (with VN and other ASEAN being potentially big clients).



I'm not too sure either, but I did hear the rumor a few times and it could very well be true.

My explanation regarding the Pantsir is that they probably bought the Tor a few years earlier, but who knows what the truth is.

Can you start a Viet military thread at DF India? I will join also. I'm sick and tired of the chinese trolls here, they ruin everything and the mods don't care.

The MP forum is actually very good, but the Viet thread doesn't have enough activity, sometimes it goes for days without postings but it does have high caliber people there. I've been there for a few years, but I don't like their system of posting pics, need to have external storage.

Let me know what your name is at the DF India forum.


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## Viet

Carlosa...that is very surprising, and not a good sign in the bilateral relationship. I think VN government does no longer trust CN commitment to solve the dispute fair and peaceful. Though the most important point is, VN itself does not join the arbitration like the Philippines, but only sends notes to the court. the notes state Vietnam stance. And, the side effect is Vietnam supports the stance of the Philippines of sueing China.

Considering how Chinese leadership behaves recently, the move is overdue, I assume.

_China rejects Vietnam claims in arbitration submission over South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post

The South China Morning Post understands that Vietnam sent a statement to the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) at the Hague last Friday, making three main claims in clear opposition to China’s stand.

First, it stated that it recognised that the court had jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines, in direct contradiction to China’s own recently reiterated position that it had no such authority.

Second, it asked the court to give “due regard” to Vietnam’s legal rights and interests in the Spratleys, Paracels, and in its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf when deciding on the merits of the Philippine case.

Finally, it also rejected the Chinese nine-dash line demarcation – the basis of Chinese claims to ownership of the vast spread of the South China Sea – saying that it was “without legal basis”._

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> Carlosa...that is very surprising, and not a good sign in the bilateral relationship. I think VN government does no longer trust CN commitment to solve the dispute fair and peaceful. Though the most important point is, VN itself does not join the arbitration like the Philippines, but only sends notes to the court. the notes state Vietnam stance. And, Vietnam supports the stance of the Philippines by sueing China.
> 
> _China rejects Vietnam claims in arbitration submission over South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
> The South China Morning Post understands that Vietnam sent a statement to the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) at the Hague last Friday, making three main claims in clear opposition to China’s stand.
> 
> First, it stated that it recognised that the court had jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines, in direct contradiction to China’s own recently reiterated position that it had no such authority.
> 
> Second, it asked the court to give “due regard” to Vietnam’s legal rights and interests in the Spratleys, Paracels, and in its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf when deciding on the merits of the Philippine case.
> 
> Finally, it also rejected the Chinese nine-dash line demarcation – the basis of Chinese claims to ownership of the vast spread of the South China Sea – saying that it was “without legal basis”._



Any court of arbitration is more gentle than the international police, I mean USA.


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## Viet

SWAT AGRA said:


> sir,isn't India offered Vietnam brahmos.


no, india is hesitant to provide us with the missiles. latest news says, india wants to join the international missile control regime, then decides the request of vietnam. when it is going to happen, nobody in vietnam knows.



BoQ77 said:


> Any court of arbitration is more gentle than the international police, I mean USA.


well, we can expect chinese aggression like we have seen how they do with the philippines. be prepared.

some other news:
Arrival of the new Su-30MK2s: 2 already delivered at end of november, the next 2 end of december.

Báo Nga: Việt Nam nhận thêm 2 'Hổ mang chúa' Su-30MK2 - DVO - Báo Đất Việt


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa...that is very surprising, and not a good sign in the bilateral relationship. I think VN government does no longer trust CN commitment to solve the dispute fair and peaceful. Though the most important point is, VN itself does not join the arbitration like the Philippines, but only sends notes to the court. the notes state Vietnam stance. And, the side effect is Vietnam supports the stance of the Philippines of sueing China.
> 
> Considering how Chinese leadership behaves recently, the move is overdue, I assume.
> 
> _China rejects Vietnam claims in arbitration submission over South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
> 
> The South China Morning Post understands that Vietnam sent a statement to the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) at the Hague last Friday, making three main claims in clear opposition to China’s stand.
> 
> First, it stated that it recognised that the court had jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines, in direct contradiction to China’s own recently reiterated position that it had no such authority.
> 
> Second, it asked the court to give “due regard” to Vietnam’s legal rights and interests in the Spratleys, Paracels, and in its exclusive economic zone and continental shelf when deciding on the merits of the Philippine case.
> 
> Finally, it also rejected the Chinese nine-dash line demarcation – the basis of Chinese claims to ownership of the vast spread of the South China Sea – saying that it was “without legal basis”._



I was surprised too, but I think its directed mainly against Philippines because don't forget that they also claim and have control of Viet islands so VN needs to defend its own claims with Philippines.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I'm not too sure either, but I did hear the rumor a few times and it could very well be true.
> 
> My explanation regarding the Pantsir is that they probably bought the Tor a few years earlier, but who knows what the truth is.
> 
> Can you start a Viet military thread at DF India? I will join also. I'm sick and tired of the chinese trolls here, they ruin everything and the mods don't care.
> 
> The MP forum is actually very good, but the Viet thread doesn't have enough activity, sometimes it goes for days without postings but it does have high caliber people there. I've been there for a few years, but I don't like their system of posting pics, need to have external storage.
> 
> Let me know what your name is at the DF India forum.



I've just created a new thread over there called "The Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion threads." in the Indo-Pacific and East Asia section. 

My username at DF India is "Extragalactic Janitor."

@Viet @BoQ77 @Soryu @Ayan81, etc. come join me.

I will still stay here but just to play around with the trolls lol.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I was surprised too, but I think its directed mainly against Philippines because don't forget that they also claim and have control of Viet islands so VN needs to defend its own claims with Philippines.


China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?

It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means.



Black Flag said:


> I've just created a new thread over there called "The Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion threads." in the Indo-Pacific and East Asia section.
> 
> My username at DF India is "Extragalactic Janitor."
> 
> @Viet @BoQ77 @Soryu @Ayan81, etc. come join me.
> 
> I will still stay here but just to play around with the trolls lol.


black, you have humour.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?
> 
> It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means..



You are right, well, time to accelerate the arm purchases.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I was surprised too, but I think its directed mainly against Philippines because don't forget that they also claim and have control of Viet islands so VN needs to defend its own claims with Philippines.





Viet said:


> China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?
> 
> It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means.



VN positions announcement is directly against China only. The US recent analysis report released a few days ago was also directly against China. Now I really believe that something is gona happen in the next few years when the tribunal issue it's ruling.

I will talk more about it later in that Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion thread I've created.



Carlosa said:


> The MP forum is actually very good, but the Viet thread doesn't have enough activity, sometimes it goes for days without postings but it does have high caliber people there. I've been there for a few years, but I don't like their system of posting pics, need to have external storage.



MP is too strict for me, cos sometime I like to troll and they will delete and issue warnings too easily. Plus I want to post parts of articles that are copyrighted (from subscription journals) and MP is too big to do that. As you know, there are some employees like from SIPRI, etc, who browse that forum.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> VN positions announcement is directly against China only. The US recent analysis report released a few days ago was also directly against China. Now I really believe that something is gona happen in the next few years when the tribunal issue it's ruling.
> 
> I will talk more about it later in that Paracel-Spratlys News and Discussion thread I've created.
> -------
> MP is too strict for me, cos sometime I like to troll and they will delete and issue warnings too easily. Plus I want to post parts of articles that are copyrighted (from subscription journals) and MP is too big to do that. As you know, there are some employees like from SIPRI, etc, who browse that forum.



Damn, the situation will get hot indeed. I didn't know the details of VN's papers to the tribunal; china will surely get nasty.

I agree about MP, they are the opposite of pdf in that sense.
Hell, the people from SIPRI at the MP forum took no time at all to shut me down when I posted an article based on SIPRI that was actually a fake.

But again, there are high caliber people there that really know a lot about the Viet military and are often part of it, they are not going to talk too much, but they do give hints.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Damn, the situation will get hot indeed. I didn't know the details of VN's papers to the tribunal; china will surely get nasty.


basically VN sends this note to the Court at the Hague:

_- First, Vietnam recognises the court has jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines.

- Second, Vietnam asks the court to give “due regard” to Vietnam’s legal rights and interests in the Spratleys, Paracels, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

- Third, Vietnam rejects the Chinese nine-dash line demarcation._

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> China claims 80% of the south china sea, and says this claim bases on "historical facts". well, we all know that is nothing more than lie. and weird: the chinese demand from vietnam to accept this "historical facts" aka lie as basis for the negotiation. brazen, isn´t it?
> 
> It is just overdue, that the VN government has decided to slap their face by sending a note to the court. well, the result is the hope sinks that we can settle the dispute by peaceful means..



@Black Flag I had a theory for a while that US is actually no taking a position on the chinese claims and not doing anything other than talking because they are waiting for a favorable ruling from the tribunal and then having the legal backing of it, they will get very serious with china and officially reject the chinese claims and actually take action against them. I don't know, specially with wimp Obama, but I think its very possible. What do you guys think?



Viet said:


> basically VN sends this note to the Court at the Hague:
> 
> _- First, Vietnam recognises the court has jurisdiction over the case submitted by the Philippines.
> 
> - Second, Vietnam asks the court to give “due regard” to Vietnam’s legal rights and interests in the Spratleys, Paracels, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.
> 
> - Third, Vietnam rejects the Chinese nine-dash line demarcation._



Well, that's a full spread, I hope VN had been busy ordering stuff.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> VN positions announcement is directly against China only. The US recent analysis report released a few days ago was also directly against China. Now I really believe that something is gona happen in the next few years when the tribunal issue it's ruling.


exactly, the resolution H.Res.714 of the US Congress clearly says: only the international law (UNCLOS, etc..) prevails. Nothing else. Not invented "historical facts". Least lie from Chinese mouth.



Carlosa said:


> Well, that's a full spread, I hope VN had been busy ordering stuff.


I don´t think the chinese will start a war, but if it happens we are ready.



SWAT AGRA said:


> i just asked bcz there are media reports that new government in India could offer brahmos to friendly countries including Vietnam.


we have showed interest of the missile since a year, but your governnent is hesitant. I guess india fears chinese retaliation.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> exactly, the resolution H.Res.714 of the US Congress clearly says: only the international law (UNCLOS, etc..) prevails. Nothing else. Not invented "historical facts". Least lie from Chinese mouth.
> I don´t think the chinese will start a war, but if it happens we are ready.
> .



Probably not a war, but more oil rigs and maybe island blockades, fishing boats issues, etc.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Probably not a war, but more oil rigs and maybe island blockades, fishing boats issues, etc.


well, I am optimistic as we are better prepared this time.

the government has placed an urgent funding for 32 new coast guard vessels and 30,000 modern steel fishing vessels. they will join the fleet soon. in addition, we buy coast guard ships from india, japan and america. this flotilla will sabotage any attempts to place oil rigs in our waters, or to blockade our islands.

have I told you we can build oil rigs, too?

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> @Black Flag I had a theory for a while that US is actually no taking a position on the chinese claims and not doing anything other than talking because they are waiting for a favorable ruling from the tribunal and then having the legal backing of it, they will get very serious with china and officially reject the chinese claims and actually take action against them. I don't know, specially with wimp Obama, but I think its very possible. What do you guys think?
> 
> Well, that's a full spread, I hope VN had been busy ordering stuff.





Viet said:


> exactly, the resolution H.Res.714 of the US Congress clearly says: only the international law (UNCLOS, etc..) prevails. Nothing else. Not invented "historical facts". Least lie from Chinese mouth.
> 
> I don´t think the chinese will start a war, but if it happens we are ready.



Yes, VN's positional note basically supports the Philippines' case against China. It was expected actually, as VN had previously announced that it might raise a similar case of its own against China. And the Philippines said that they were willing to send their legal experts to VN to share their analysis. 

What I find most surprising was how the US made their analysis public. 

Before, we were discussing how if the Philippines were to win its arbitration case, it might trigger the US-Phil MDT if China ignore the ruling. We were saying how the US must either intervene and fulfil its MDT obligation or it can ignore its obligation because an intervention might escalate into something too big. 

Well, the fact that the US have just released its analysis that fundamentally reject all of China's SCS claims show that, to me, they will intervene and not just to turn the blind eye. Because if the US were to leave some space so that they could later turn the blind eye, they wouldn't have released this analysis which condemns the Chinese claims in such a direct manner. It would just be too embarrassing to issue such a strong objection now, only to later on ignore the Philippines ruling. 

So either the US is issuing a warning for China that they will intervene later on, or they are pressuring China to tone down its tough stance and start negotiating properly now. However, I don't think China will tone down their voice and compromise. 

But China is feeling the pressure. I've already suggested earlier that their land reclamation was a sign of desperation. Now, the fact that they have just made a big effort to issue their very detailed positional note to defend their stance enforces my belief that they are desperate and under pressure. 

Before they were just totally ignoring the Philippines case and made some small informal statements here and there. They were feeling confident that the tribunal cannot touch them. Now they have just release their own +90 points analysis to defend themselves. They ain't feeling confident anymore. 

Anyway, you guys coming over to DF?

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Yes, VN's positional note basically supports the Philippines' case against China. It was expected actually, as VN had previously announced that it might raise a similar case of its own against China. And the Philippines said that they were willing to send their legal experts to VN to share their analysis.
> 
> What I find most surprising was how the US made their analysis public.
> 
> Before, we were discussing how if the Philippines were to win its arbitration case, it might trigger the US-Phil MDT if China ignore the ruling. We were saying how the US must either intervene and fulfil its MDT obligation or it can ignore its obligation because an intervention might escalate into something too big.
> 
> Well, the fact that the US have just released its analysis that fundamentally reject all of China's SCS claims show that, to me, they will intervene and not just to turn the blind eye. Because if the US were to leave some space so that they could later turn the blind eye, they wouldn't have released this analysis which condemns the Chinese claims in such a direct manner. It would just be too embarrassing to issue such a strong objection now, only to later on ignore the Philippines ruling.
> 
> So either the US is issuing a warning for China that they will intervene later on, or they are pressuring China to tone down its tough stance and start negotiating properly now. However, I don't think China will tone down their voice and compromise.
> 
> But China is feeling the pressure. I've already suggested earlier that their land reclamation was a sign of desperation. Now, the fact that they have just made a big effort to issue their very detailed positional note to defend their stance enforces my belief that they are desperate and under pressure.
> 
> Before they were just totally ignoring the Philippines case and made some small informal statements here and there. They were feeling confident that the tribunal cannot touch them. Now they have just release their own +90 points analysis to defend themselves. They ain't feeling confident anymore.
> 
> Anyway, you guys coming over to DF?



I think you are right on both counts, on the US position and the fact that China will not tone down their voice and compromise and that they are getting desperate.

I had been feeling that about the US and the picture is becoming clear. I was reading yesterday that they expect now that the tribunal final rulings will come before the end of 2015, so just 1 more year to wait.

I'll get to the indian forum later tonight.



Viet said:


> well, I am optimistic as we are better prepared this time.
> 
> the government has placed an urgent funding for 32 new coast guard vessels and 30,000 modern steel fishing vessels. they will join the fleet soon. in addition, we buy coast guard ships from india, japan and america. this flotilla will sabotage any attempts to place oil rigs in our waters, or to blockade our islands.
> 
> have I told you we can build oil rigs, too?



I had a feeling that VN will need all those ships.

Yes, I know about the VN made oil rigs, have files on them.

Actually, the chinese made oil rigs are made under US license, but the chinese usually omit to mention that part.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I had a feeling that VN will need all those ships.
> 
> Yes, I know about the VN made oil rigs, have files on them.
> 
> Actually, the chinese made oil rigs are made under US license, but the chinese usually omit to mention that part.


yes, we need more advanced warships, too. urgent. bro, you should tell your contact at the navy, that they should begin to look what Spain offers.

LOL but yes, actually we build oil rigs, with technologies based on Friede & Goldman, that also provided the design for the Chinese HD 981 oil rig. so some 18,000 tonnage, capable of operating at a depth of 120 meters, drill at a depth of 9,000 meters.
Vietnam to build big oil rigs - News VietNamNet

this one is from PetroVietnam is cool:








Black Flag said:


> Yes, VN's positional note basically supports the Philippines' case against China. It was expected actually, as VN had previously announced that it might raise a similar case of its own against China. And the Philippines said that they were willing to send their legal experts to VN to share their analysis.
> 
> What I find most surprising was how the US made their analysis public.
> 
> Before, we were discussing how if the Philippines were to win its arbitration case, it might trigger the US-Phil MDT if China ignore the ruling. We were saying how the US must either intervene and fulfil its MDT obligation or it can ignore its obligation because an intervention might escalate into something too big.
> 
> Well, the fact that the US have just released its analysis that fundamentally reject all of China's SCS claims show that, to me, they will intervene and not just to turn the blind eye. Because if the US were to leave some space so that they could later turn the blind eye, they wouldn't have released this analysis which condemns the Chinese claims in such a direct manner. It would just be too embarrassing to issue such a strong objection now, only to later on ignore the Philippines ruling.
> 
> So either the US is issuing a warning for China that they will intervene later on, or they are pressuring China to tone down its tough stance and start negotiating properly now. However, I don't think China will tone down their voice and compromise.
> 
> But China is feeling the pressure. I've already suggested earlier that their land reclamation was a sign of desperation. Now, the fact that they have just made a big effort to issue their very detailed positional note to defend their stance enforces my belief that they are desperate and under pressure.
> 
> Before they were just totally ignoring the Philippines case and made some small informal statements here and there. They were feeling confident that the tribunal cannot touch them. Now they have just release their own +90 points analysis to defend themselves. They ain't feeling confident anymore.
> 
> Anyway, you guys coming over to DF?


good analyse!

I want to add that the likelyhood is VERY high, before sending the note to the court at the Huage, the VN government has talked to the great powers in the region and the world as America, Russia, Japan and India, to secure their support. Not to mention to involve other nations as S Korea and Philippines. the step is carefully considered and planned.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> Arrival of the new Su-30MK2s: 2 already delivered at end of november, the next 2 end of december.
> 
> Báo Nga: Việt Nam nhận thêm 2 'Hổ mang chúa' Su-30MK2 - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
> View attachment 164429

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## Viet

Military Capabilities
*Vietnam to publish new White Paper, focus on military modernisation*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
03 December 2014


Vietnam will publish a new Defence White Paper before the end of 2014, Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh announced on 4 December. The White Paper will be the first that the country has published since 2009.

In comments to state-run news service VietNamNet, Thanh said the White Paper will be focused on shaping Vietnam's continuing military modernisation in order to protect and secure national sovereignty.

"We are preparing to release the White Paper on defence this year, in the way of peace, independence, autonomy, and transparency in military building," said Thanh. "We build the army to only defend the country.

Industry
*Vietnam to invest in developing local industry*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
08 December 2014


Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung has pledged to invest in developing the country's defence industrial base in a bid to strengthen the Vietnamese military and "especially the navy and air force".

In comments published by the official Vietnam News Agency on 6 December, Dung highlighted the government's plans to develop naval shipbuilder Ba Son Shipyard - constructor of the Vietnam People's Navy's (VPN's) Tarantul V (Project 1241.8)-class guided-missile corvettes - as an indicator of the government's commitment to invest.

State-owned Ba Son Shipyard is currently based in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam's largest city, but is being relocated to Ba Ria-Vung province, about 90 km southeast, in order to expand its naval shipbuilding facilities and be closer to naval facilities in that region.



_Interesting: Ba Son Shipyard capacity will be enlarged and expanded. I bet the next generations of capital warships such as sigma class and others will be built here._

_locations of vietnam shipyards:_

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Military Capabilities
> _Interesting: Ba Son Shipyard capacity will be enlarged and expanded. I bet the next generations of capital warships such as sigma class and others will be built here.
> locations of vietnam shipyards:_
> View attachment 164558



I think you are right, that makes a lot of sense.

I know there is one ship under development and I imagine they will start construction right after they finished with the Molniyas.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I think you are right, that makes a lot of sense.
> 
> I know there is one ship under development and I imagine they will start construction right after they finished with the Molniyas.


do you know of what type of ship is under development?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> do you know of what type of ship is under development?



Not really, I only know that is bigger than Molniya class, probably a larger corvette, maybe with a helo deck, but smaller than a light frigate like Gepard / Sigma. I very much would like to know the details bro.

By the way, we never heard again of @Alvin Edward He does know.

Are you there Alvin? Please trow some info to us mate, we'd love to hear from you.


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## Soryu

Black Flag said:


> Yea, refurb and weapons ( mainly Taiwan domestic system) all included. It was $175 million without the refurb and upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> Those new ships are expensive. For the price of two OHP class, you can't even buy one Sigma or Ichaeon Class corvette.
> 
> Plus, these OHP class are already in stock, ready for refurb and transfer.



Hmm, in my mind, it's like this:

If we need long range and great endurance patrol ship: DN-2000 series or even en-large version DN-4000
If we need good speed and medium-short range: TT400 series.
If we need powerful arsenal, so FAC like Molnya or new series with more "stealth" elements.

And we need light-medium class frigate with stealth shape, good radar, good CMS, good data-link for command and control role, detect enemy ship and manage, control team - formation, and guide missiles to enemy's ship.

So we have SIGMA 9814, and I hope we eye for *Project 11356M *or *Project 22356* , they're good armed and good radar, but maybe more long time to wait since those two project are still not commission and not mature enough.

So best hope we (I) can go: Korean or (and) Dutch.
Both have cooperate with Vietnamese shipyards and great ship-building industry, and likely easy to transfer tech to their partner.
They have good method and processes to manage system has more efficient (project KDX-III cost only ~ $900m), plus our cheap-labor cost, that will save much money for us, but still has more technologies and modern vessels.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Hmm, in my mind, it's like this:
> 
> If we need long range and great endurance patrol ship: DN-2000 series or even en-large version DN-4000
> If we need good speed and medium-short range: TT400 series.
> If we need powerful arsenal, so FAC like Molnya or new series with more "stealth" elements.
> 
> And we need light-medium class frigate with stealth shape, good radar, good CMS, good data-link for command and control role, detect enemy ship and manage, control team - formation, and guide missiles to enemy's ship.
> 
> So we have SIGMA 9814, and I hope we eye for *Project 11356M *or *Project 22356* , they're good armed and good radar, but maybe more long time to wait since those two project are still not commission and not mature enough.
> 
> So best hope we (I) can go: Korean or (and) Dutch.
> Both have cooperate with Vietnamese shipyards and great ship-building industry, and likely easy to transfer tech to their partner.
> They have good method and processes to manage system has more efficient (project KDX-III cost only ~ $900m), plus our cheap-labor cost, that will save much money for us, but still has more technologies and modern vessels.



As heavy frigates go, I also like the Project 11356, that thing is a beast, but I would get it with Israeli or French radar and Barak 8 missiles which are much better than Shtil. The Russians are now offering their frigates with Thales radars and CMS for export which I think its a great option. The other alternative would be an Indian design.

I think VN also needs 2 corvettes, 1 light 600 tons like the Molniya but with full stealth features and also fast and low profile, basically an up to date Molniya type of design.

Another bigger one for littoral ASW with helo deck and about 70-80 meters long. This might be the one under development in VN I think.

And of course the 2200 ton light frigates like Sigma.

If VN can get into that, that would be a good spread of ships.

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## Carlosa

USA released a paper a few days ago stating their position on the 9 dash line and refuting the chinese arguments for it. Here is the link for it:

[url]http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/234936.pdf[/URL]

Its interesting to see how all the relevant powers in the area are releasing papers ahead of the December 15th deadline. Even those that are not part of the litigation (USA) and those that already said that will not participate in the arbitration process and will not accept the results of the tribunal (China), still want to take the moral high ground and try to influence the tribunal by making their position clear with those papers.

Here is a link that explains the chinese and American positions in those papers just released:

[url="http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-americas-dueling-south-china-sea-papers-11830"]China and America's Dueling South China Sea Papers | The National Interest Blog[/URL]

Here is a link that explains the document released by Vietnam:

Vietnam Launches Legal Challenge Against China’s South China Sea Claims | The Diplomat

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## Viet

_one of the best articles about our fight in 1979. I want to save it before it gets deleted by some reasons._
_a reminder for a certain country that constantly looks for war._

*Vietnam still proud of Chinese skulls in the jungle*

pravda.ru 05.03.2009
*Sergei Balmasov*

Vietnam heroically repulsed China’s attack 30 years ago. The enmity between the two states continued for over 2,000 years. Vietnam’s territory was spreading to the Yangtze River 2,500 years ago. The Vietnamese proved 30 years ago that they could still wage war.

The war broke out in 1979 because of the tense relations between the USSR and China. The two communist regimes were fighting for the influence on the countries of the socialist camp. Beijing could not boast of any success: the sphere of its influence included only Albania and Kampuchea.

Paul Pot attacked Vietnam’s border territories in 1978. Hanoi responded with deploying its troops in Kampuchea in December 1978. China obtained a reason to interfere on Pol Pot’s side and occupy Vietnam in order to weaken the Soviet influence in the world.

The United States stood behind the conflict: the country was struggling against communism. The USA was setting China against the USSR’s allies promising its support to Beijing.

The 600,000-strong Chinese army attacked Vietnam along its entire 1,460-kilometer border. Vietnam had only two divisions to oppose China’s 44. About 85 percent of Vietnam’s troops were stationed in Cambodia, thousands of kilometers away. However, China failed to have a blitzkrieg: Vietnam did very well without the basic part of its regular forces.

Border guards and local militia men showed fierce resistance to the aggressor. The Chinese troops moved only 15 kilometers inside Vietnam during the first three days of the war. Only several thousands of Vietnamese border guards deterred a whole army.

The Vietnamese militia joined the war on the third day only. The Chinese troops were moving along narrow paths in the jungle - the surroundings were very convenient for entrapments. The Vietnamese soldiers eventually dismembered the enemy’s army into several parts.

A group of Soviet counselors arrived in Vietnam on February 19. Moscow set its Eastern troops on high alert and threatened to invade China. The USSR’s Pacific Fleet was approaching China’s coast. Soviet warplanes transported a group of the Vietnamese army from Kampuchea, which made it possible to organize a 100,000-strong group of Vietnamese military men.


China began to pull back its troops on March 5. The country declared its victory but never explained why it had failed to defend Pol Pot, its bloody ally. Vietnam pulled back from Kampuchea only ten years afterwards, having defeated the Khmer Rouge.

The Vietnamese troops were following China’s retreat for two weeks and killed 62,500 Chinese soldiers. They also destroyed over 50 percent of China’s military hardware that was involved in the aggression.

The vestiges of that war still echo today. Not so long ago, each Vietnamese student studying at local medical schools was supposed to fetch a couple of Chinese skulls from the jungle for practical classes.

*The incursion of 1979 proved that Vietnam has one of the best soldiers in the world, who definitely know how to defend their native land.*


Vietnam still proud of Chinese skulls in the jungle - English pravda.ru

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## Viet

there are news speculating the US begins to provide spare parts for their leftover military hardware after the Vietnam war. If so, we can save some money by reactivating some of the huge stock pile.

M113 tanks






UH-1 Heli





M107 175mm Howbitzer

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## Viet

Vietnamese EW officers trainees in Russia





soldier´s life





encounter with a chinese warship





loading weapons onto a warship





anti submarine heli on patrol






in cockpit













Fishery coast guard






Live fire exercise (military region 3): airborne landing of an enemy force















































Coastal defence: launching a shore based antiship missile P-15 Termit

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## Thao Nguyen

New toy : Vera-NG, thanks to triumf for pictures

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## Viet

December 16th: Lieutenant General Vo Van Tuan received the visiting Harry Harris, Commander of the US Pacific Fleet. Harris says the US navy wants more port access to Vietnam.

Well, it is not a secret that America increases monitoring the activities of chinese southsea fleet, especially the nuclear powered subs. Let see how VN military leadership considers this suggestion. I guess we can close a deal that benefits both sides.






Also, Harry Harris visits the city of danang and promotes a close tie between two navies.
the city once hosted one of the major US naval installations during the Vietnam war. I bet they want to return to there. we have given the russians privileged access to cam ranh bay, why not the americans to danang naval base?

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## frequency

Vietnam's army is way stronger than the **** by far.


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## Viet

frequency said:


> Vietnam's army is way stronger than the **** by far.


No, not really. Pakistan is nuclear weapon state.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> No, not really. Pakistan is nuclear weapon state.



When are you guys going to make anti-matter and anti-substance warheads?


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## Carlosa

frequency said:


> When are you guys going to make anti-matter and anti-substance warheads?



That's later, photon torpedos first.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's later, photon torpedos first.


photon torpedos? you are crazy 



frequency said:


> When are you guys going to make anti-matter and anti-substance warheads?


well, have you seen this one before?

this shows a real-time OPR 1000 Core Simulator (CoSi), a south korea nuclear reactor computer, being installed in the university of da lat (central vietnam). it costs US$2 million, can simulate a nuclear power plant with a capacity of 1,000 MW. the system can even create a BLACK HOLE, that swallows everything from humans to animals.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> photon torpedos? you are crazy
> 
> 
> well, have you seen this one before?
> 
> this shows a real-time OPR 1000 Core Simulator (CoSi), a south korea nuclear reactor computer, being installed in the university of da lat (central vietnam). it costs US$2 million, can simulate a nuclear power plant with a capacity of 1,000 MW. the system can even create a BLACK HOLE, that swallows everything from people to animals.
> 
> View attachment 177485
> 
> 
> View attachment 177487



You know what I meant right? He is talking about anti matter weapons, so I'm talking about the photon torpedos from the Star Trek television series. I'm just replying with my own joke, ha ha.

Yes, I've read about that simulator, neat. 
Come to think of it, I'm changing my mind, I think it would be good for VN to develop some nuclear weapons if they can get away with it in secrecy. This fa...king world is too dangerous bro.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You know what I meant right? He is talking about anti matter weapons, so I'm talking about the photon torpedos from the Star Trek television series. I'm just replying with my own joke, ha ha.


I know...bro.


Carlosa said:


> Yes, I've read about that simulator, neat.
> Come to think of it, I'm changing my mind, I think it would be good for VN to develop some nuclear weapons if they can get away with it in secrecy. This fa...king world is too dangerous bro.


well, VN only needs to gets closer to the US and the dream will come true. though, the 1-2-3 US-VN nuclear deal allows us to enrich uranium, that would take us too long to develop nuclear warhead, small enough to fit onto our current balistic missile. BUT if we get help from uncle sam, thing would come faster. OR, America allows us to acquire the necessary technology in India.

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## Viet

Vietnam-India military cooperation

December 17th, Vietnam army headquarter. VN Army Chief receives Indian Chief of Army, General Dalbir Singh. For the fist time ever.






Vietnamese officers on a visit to India.
Military Intelligence Training School and Depot (MITSD) and Brigade 330 of the Indian Army





Pune city-based College of Military Engineering





Indian Mechanized Infantry Training Center





Vietnam-China border guard cooperation
Lieutenant General Shi Xiang Yuan, Deputy Commander of Chengdu Military Region on a visit to Vietnam

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## Viet

the Gepard is seen docked at a bay in Manila, the Philippines in November. there are preparations underway for high level talks between two countries leaderships how to end or reduce tension in the bilateral dispute, to join both forces to better deal with the Chinese in the south china sea.

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## conkhi

we will die if we start a war with china, bad choice


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## GeHAC

Viet said:


> the Gepard is seen docked at a bay in Manila, the Philippines in November. there are preparations underway for high level talks between two countries leaderships how to end or reduce tension in the bilateral dispute, to join both forces to better deal with the Chinese in the south china sea.
> View attachment 177703


Nice looking ship.I'm wondering what the captain's rank is in vietnam navy?
Usually,the captain of 056 is lieutenant commander and 054A's is commander.

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## Viet

GeHAC said:


> Nice looking ship.I'm wondering what the captain's rank is in vietnam navy?
> Usually,the captain of 056 is lieutenant commander and 054A's is commander.


Not sure, I guess we have similar to yours, the PLA. by the way, if you are interested of, here is the uniform dress of the VPA.
from left: ground force, airforce, navy and coast guard








conkhi said:


> we will die if we start a war with china, bad choice


nobody wants to start a war against china. are you from france really?

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## NiceGuy

GeHAC said:


> Nice looking ship.I'm wondering what the captain's rank is in vietnam navy?
> Usually,the captain of 056 is lieutenant commander and 054A's is commander.


The rank of Captain of Gepard corvette is lieutenant-colonel.

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## conkhi

I fled Vietnam and living in our former papa's country: France

We start arms race we will lose anyway against China in a war.


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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> the Gepard is seen docked at a bay in Manila, the Philippines in November. there are preparations underway for high level talks between two countries leaderships how to end or reduce tension in the bilateral dispute, to join both forces to better deal with the Chinese in the south china sea.
> View attachment 177703




Looking beautiful, Vietnam. Please post more pictures of the Gepards.

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## fadine

*Congratulations for 70 years of Vietnam People’s Army.*

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> You know what I meant right? He is talking about anti matter weapons, so I'm talking about the photon torpedos from the Star Trek television series. I'm just replying with my own joke, ha ha.
> 
> Yes, I've read about that simulator, neat.
> Come to think of it, I'm changing my mind, I think it would be good for VN to develop some nuclear weapons if they can get away with it in secrecy. This fa...king world is too dangerous bro.



Do you read Dan Brown?, something like "Angels and Demons".


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Do you read Dan Brown?, something like "Angels and Demons".



No, I never read anything from him, I just checked and it looks very interesting, I like that kind of stuff.


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> Do you read Dan Brown?, something like "Angels and Demons".





Carlosa said:


> No, I never read anything from him, I just checked and it looks very interesting, I like that kind of stuff.



No! Dan Brown is rubbish, he just copy ideas from here and there and paste them together. 

Check out Umberto Eco. He is much better.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> No! Dan Brown is rubbish, he just copy ideas from here and there and paste them together.
> 
> Check out Umberto Eco. He is much better.



Oh ok, thank you, I'll check him out and I'll use your link.


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## Viet

merry christmas to all. I watched recently a DVD film: "Nachrichten aus der Ferne" of Danielle Steel. A very emotional drama about love and death. a good film about the Vietnam war.







Die Heldin des Films ist die lebhafte Paxton Andrews, die aus Savannah stammt und die Rolle einer typischen Schönheit aus dem Süden verkörpert. Für ihr Journalismus-Studium geht sie nach Berkeley und ist bald noch viel weiter weg von ihrer Heimat. Während des Studiums verliebt sich Paxton unsterblich in den Jusstudenten Peter Wilson, Sohn eines Zeitungsmoguls.

Doch tragischerweise fällt Peter im Vietnamkrieg, woraufhin sie als Journalistin nach Vietnam geht, um die wahren Begebenheiten des Krieges zu schildern. Dort lernt sie auch einen US-Soldaten kennen, in den sie sich verliebt. Aber dieses Glück ist nicht von Dauer, denn auch er stirbt in Vietnam. Nach dem Tod des US-Soldaten kehrt sie zurück in die USA, aber bekommt Vietnam nicht aus ihrem Kopf. Deshalb kehrt sie nach Vietnam zurück und arbeitet weiter als Journalistin. Nach einiger Zeit verleibt sie sich in einen US-Offizier mit dem sie in letzter Minute das Land verlassen kann.

freetext google translated:

_The heroine of the film is the lively Paxton Andrews, which comes from Savannah and plays the role of a typical beauty from the south. For her journalism degree, she went to Berkeley and was soon much further away from her homeland. During her studies, Paxton fallen in love with the law student Peter Wilson, the son of a newspaper mogul.

But tragically, Peter falls in the Vietnam War, after which she goes as a journalist to Vietnam to portray the true events of the war. There she learns to know a US soldier with whom she falls in love. But this happiness is not permanent , because he also died in Vietnam. After the death she returns to the US, but can not get Vietnam out of her head . Therefore, she returns to Vietnam and continues to work as a journalist . After some time she finds herself in love with a US officer with whom she can leave the country in the last minute.










_




_
_

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## BoQ77



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## Carlosa

From comcom:

** T-54 tanks before a regular track maintenance. Some aging T-54/55 units are due to be replaced with upgraded *T-72B3V and T-90SV main battle tanks*. Also the new MBT based on Armata combat platform is being considered.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14.5 mm remote controlled gun turret produced by Vietnam by the Weapons Institute.
It can be installed in vehicles or ships. It has infrared sensors that detect and track targets. It can be used in manual or auto mode where the gun is guided by the infrared sensors.






See video: 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14.5 mm anti-aircraft machine gun mounted on a truck with optoelectronic sighting system

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## Zeenar

Carlosa said:


> I was surprised too, but I think its directed mainly against Philippines because don't forget that they also claim and have control of Viet islands so VN needs to defend its own claims with Philippines.


Phillipines is not a really big threat you know.. Their flagship doesn't even have missile launchers...


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## Carlosa

Zeenar said:


> Phillipines is not a really big threat you know.. Their flagship doesn't even have missile launchers...



All that talk is about claims, its very clear that Philippines does not pose a military threat to Vietnam.


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## Barmaley

The fifth submarine of project 636.1 "Đà Nẵng" for Vietnam People's Navy launched today. No photo yet. 



Carlosa said:


> to be replaced with upgraded *T-72B3V and T-90SV main battle tanks*



Vietnam planning to acquire T-72\90? Any news for that?

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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> The fifth submarine of project 636.1 "Đà Nẵng" for Vietnam People's Navy launched today. No photo yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam planning to acquire T-72\90? Any news for that?



No official news, but as I understand, Vietnam already deployed a limited number of T-90S. T-72 is already in Vietnam, but VN has never given official confirmation, something that is quite typical for Vietnam. VN is very secretive about these things tovarish.

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> The fifth submarine of project 636.1 "Đà Nẵng" for Vietnam People's Navy launched today. No photo yet.


here is the pic. and here again the complete list of the subs:

HQ-182 Hanoi 

HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh City 

HQ-184 Hai Phong
HQ-185 Khanh Hoa
HQ-186 Da Nang 

HQ-187 Ba Ria-Vung Tau

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## Viet

Perhaps not the right thread, but I will post some images of Vietnamese serving in the US Armed Forces. the soldiers of Viet ethnics are organised in Vietnamese American Armed Forces Association.

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## Viet



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## William Hung

I have just skimmed through the latest Vietnam Defence & Security Report for Q1 2015 released by BMI.

I will read it more thoroughly after my holiday or when I have some free time. 

Some sneak peak:

- T-72, T-90s from India, Gepard Shtil-1, France partnership, Sigma frigates. Some strange stuff, don't know if they are all true.

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## Echo_419

Black Flag said:


> I have just skimmed through the latest Vietnam Defence & Security Report for Q1 2015 released by BMI.
> 
> I will read it more thoroughly after my holiday or when I have some free time.
> 
> Some sneak peak:
> 
> - T-72, T-90s from India, Gepard Shtil-1, France partnership, Sigma frigates. Some strange stuff, don't know if they are all true.



How sure are you about the T-72 & T-90 part from India or maybe we are going to provide training for T-90s & spare parts

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> I have just skimmed through the latest Vietnam Defence & Security Report for Q1 2015 released by BMI.
> 
> I will read it more thoroughly after my holiday or when I have some free time.
> 
> Some sneak peak:
> 
> - T-72, T-90s from India, Gepard Shtil-1, France partnership, Sigma frigates. Some strange stuff, don't know if they are all true.


why are you banned?
okie, pls post the report when you come back.

...continued
Vietnamese American Armed Forces Association- Vaafa




Thiếu Tá Chris Phan, Chủ Tịch VAAFA



Đại Úy Elizabeth Phạm, nữ phi công của Marine lái chiến đấu cơ F/A 18



Đại Tá Việt Lương, chỉ huy trưởng Lữ Đòan 3 Nhảy Dù





Trung Tá Hùng Lê, chỉ huy trưởng chiến hạm USS Lassen




Trung Tá Sơn Hồ, huấn luyện lái trực thăng tác chiến Không Lực Hoa Kỳ





Đại Úy Tín Trần, Sĩ Quan Liên Lạc Hạm Đội, thành viên VAAFA





Thượng Sĩ Hiển Trần, thương binh từ chiến trường Iraq






Aviation Boatswain’s Mate 2nd Class Tu Chau


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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I have just skimmed through the latest Vietnam Defence & Security Report for Q1 2015 released by BMI.
> 
> I will read it more thoroughly after my holiday or when I have some free time.
> 
> Some sneak peak:
> 
> - T-72, T-90s from India, Gepard Shtil-1, France partnership, Sigma frigates. Some strange stuff, don't know if they are all true.



Good job mate!! Happy new year!

That would explain why the T-72 / 90 had no official announcements.

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## Viet

Vietnam made military toys: night vision gear, laser pointer, sighting device.
















Sử dụng kính ngắm bắn đêm cho pháo Zu23-2 bắn mục tiêu mặt đất.






Bắn kiểm tra súng PKM có trang bị kính ngắm ban đêm NVS-1BT.





Kính ngắm bắn đêm cho súng đại liên PKMSN.







Thiết bị ngắm bắn nhanh ngày đêm bằng laser bán dẫn.







Kính ngắm bắn đêm cho pháo Zu23-2, bắn mục tiêu mặt đất.




Kính quan sát đêm đeo đầu NĐ-01-ĐN.

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## Viet

_a good step_

Industry
*Vietnam vows to root out corruption in procurement*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
29 December 2014


Vietnam's political leadership has vowed to root out corruption in procurement and related activities, according to a Ministry of Defence (MoD) statement on 30 December.

The MoD said that the government's steering committee on anti-corruption - chaired by Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the ruling Communist Party of Vietnam - was seeking to tackle the problem by updating anti-graft regulations and increasing collaboration across government agencies.

Despite progress in tackling corruption over the past year, the MoD said obstacles that continued to hinder anti-corruption efforts included a lack of an effective legal framework, poor implementation of measures, and inadequate deterrents.



Carlosa said:


> No official news, but as I understand, Vietnam already deployed a limited number of T-90S. T-72 is already in Vietnam, but VN has never given official confirmation, something that is quite typical for Vietnam. VN is very secretive about these things tovarish.


bro, I sometimes wonder about this secrecy policy.

it makes sense in ancient times, but no sense at all nowadays. modern spy satellites with high resolution camera in space can even read the newspaper you hold in the hand on earth. it is impossible to hide military assets such as missile, tank and warship of any size. so why the army still keeps this policy is not understandable.

however, I am not sure if china already possesses a modern network of spy satellites with high resolution camera in space.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> _a good step_
> 
> Industry
> *Vietnam vows to root out corruption in procurement*
> *Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
> 29 December 2014
> 
> 
> Vietnam's political leadership has vowed to root out corruption in procurement and related activities, according to a Ministry of Defence (MoD) statement on 30 December.
> 
> The MoD said that the government's steering committee on anti-corruption - chaired by Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the ruling Communist Party of Vietnam - was seeking to tackle the problem by updating anti-graft regulations and increasing collaboration across government agencies.
> 
> Despite progress in tackling corruption over the past year, the MoD said obstacles that continued to hinder anti-corruption efforts included a lack of an effective legal framework, poor implementation of measures, and inadequate deterrents.
> 
> 
> bro, I sometimes wonder about this secrecy policy.
> 
> it makes sense in ancient times, but no sense at all nowadays. modern spy satellites with high resolution camera in space can even read the newspaper you hold in the hand. it is impossible to hide military assets such as missile, tank and warship of any size. so why the army still keeps this policy is not understandable.
> 
> I am not sure if china already possesses a modern network of spy satellites with high resolution camera in space.



because in a war, knowledge is power, i dont know if you can make sense of it, but you would try to let your enemy guess whether or not you have such asset, then to show them you have them or tell them you dont

Doing so will force the enemy to have to consider that when they plan moves against ur country.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> because in a war, knowledge is power, i dont know if you can make sense of it, but you would try to let your enemy guess whether or not you have such asset, then to show them you have them or tell them you dont
> 
> Doing so will force the enemy to have to consider that when they plan moves against ur country.


there are rumours, vietnam army possesses t-90 tank and long range baslistic missile (1,000km). let assume, china possesses spy satellites with high resolution camera, like other major military powers as america and russia. I am prretty sure, chinese military monitors any movements of vietnam days and nights, especially the SC Sea.

so why hiding if the other side knows it?


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> there are rumours, vietnam army possesses t-90 tank and long range baslistic missile (1,000km). let assume, china possesses spy satellites with high resolution camera, like other major military powers as america and russia. I am prretty sure, chinese military monitors any movements of vietnam days and nights, especially the SC Sea.
> 
> so why hiding if the other side knows it?



the factor of unknown, can they spy is one thing, would vietnam acknowledge or decline is another, in this case, what china know is not with the consideration here, kind of like a pandora box situation, of China knows they knows, but most importantly Vietnam dont know if China or anyone knows, hence you dont go spill the bean yourselves, leave the question on "Whether or not they know " Question to the Chinese or American. 

dont know if you know what i meant...

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> the factor of unknown, can they spy is one thing, would vietnam acknowledge or decline is another, in this case, what china know is not with the consideration here, kind of like a pandora box situation, of China knows they knows, but most importantly Vietnam dont know if China or anyone knows, hence you dont go spill the bean yourselves, leave the question on "Whether or not they know " Question to the Chinese or American.
> 
> dont know if you know what i meant...


ok, makes some sense...but I m still not convinced. the other way is if the enemy knows what we have they could be discouraged in making adventurism.


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## Viet

old but still useful:* M113 light armored personal carrier*





wiki: A combined arms operation in Vietnam. M113s clear the way through heavy bush while infantry follows.


Vietnam army operates several hundreds of US made M113s. about 1,500 M113s were left behind after the Vietnam war. the tanks are now equipped with russian style machine guns. the light tanks played a major role in the blitz military offensive against Cambodia in 1978.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> _a good step_
> 
> Industry
> *Vietnam vows to root out corruption in procurement*
> *Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
> 29 December 2014
> 
> 
> Vietnam's political leadership has vowed to root out corruption in procurement and related activities, according to a Ministry of Defence (MoD) statement on 30 December.
> 
> The MoD said that the government's steering committee on anti-corruption - chaired by Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the ruling Communist Party of Vietnam - was seeking to tackle the problem by updating anti-graft regulations and increasing collaboration across government agencies.
> 
> Despite progress in tackling corruption over the past year, the MoD said obstacles that continued to hinder anti-corruption efforts included a lack of an effective legal framework, poor implementation of measures, and inadequate deterrents.
> 
> 
> bro, I sometimes wonder about this secrecy policy.
> 
> it makes sense in ancient times, but no sense at all nowadays. modern spy satellites with high resolution camera in space can even read the newspaper you hold in the hand on earth. it is impossible to hide military assets such as missile, tank and warship of any size. so why the army still keeps this policy is not understandable.
> 
> however, I am not sure if china already possesses a modern network of spy satellites with high resolution camera in space.



I agree, VN is overdoing the secrecy thing. Of course some things need to remain secret, but they are taking it too far and actually, is better to show the toys, it has an effect of deterrence.
I don't think they can really hide much from china anyway.



Viet said:


> old but still useful:* M113 light armored personal carrier*
> 
> View attachment 181244
> 
> wiki: A combined arms operation in Vietnam. M113s clear the way through heavy bush while infantry follows.
> 
> 
> Vietnam army operates several hundreds of US made M113s. about 1,500 M113s were left behind after the Vietnam war. the tanks are now equipped with russian style machine guns. the light tanks played a major role in the blitz military offensive against Cambodia in 1978.



The M-113 is actually quite a good APC, Its worth it to upgrade it and keep it.

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## Viet

_a litle bit lengthly article by our vietnam expert Carl Thayer about the current atmosphere of sino-vietnam relationship, especially the result of the recent visit of special envoy of Xi Jinping to Vietnam: Yu Zhengsheng. in short, between cooperation and confrontation. business as usual._


China and Vietnam Eschew Megaphone Diplomacy | The Diplomat

The two rivals agree to “properly settle” their maritime disputes.





By Carl Thayer
January 02, 2015

It is now clear that the August 26-27, 2014 visit to Beijing by Le Hong Anh, special envoy of the Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party (VCP), marked an important inflection point in Sino-Vietnamese relations following the HD 981 oil rig crisis of the preceding three months.

Anh, who is also a senior member of the VCP Politburo, travelled to Beijing at the invitation of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). On the eve of his departure Vietnam released a statementthat said the purpose of his visit was to “promote the healthy, stable and long-term development of relations between the two parties and states.” The statement also expressed regret at the violent anti-China riots that led to the burning of Chinese factories as well as offering assurances that Vietnam would guarantee the safety of Chinese workers and companies operating in the country.

Anh met with Xi Jinping, Secretary General of the CCP and state president; Liu Yunshan, secretary of the CCP Central Committee and member of the Politburo Standing Committee; and Wang Jiarui, vice chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference.

Xi set the tone for Anh’s visit by telling his guest, “a neighbor cannot be moved away and it is in the common interests of both sides to be friendly to each other.”

During talks between Special Envoy Anh and Secretary General Xi they reached agreement on three points. First, they pledged to “tighten their direct instructions [to subordinate agencies] regarding bilateral ties between parties and state.” Second, the leaders concurred that “the two sides will promote exchange visits between the two parties and states, and will restore and enhance bilateral relations in all fields.”

Third, the two leaders agreed “to seriously implement the agreement on the basic principles guiding the settlement of sea related issues,” signed on October 11, 2011. They also agreed to resume government-level negotiations on borders and territory, control maritime disputes, and “not act to complicate or expand disputes.”

Anh conveyed invitations to Xi from Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong and state president Truong Tan Sang to visit Vietnam. Xi replied that he would come to Vietnam “at an appropriate time.”

The Anh-Xi discussions quickly led to the resumption of bilateral contacts, high-level visits and a meeting of government leaders. For example, on October 14, Vietnam hosted the fourth China-Vietnam bilateral conference on drug prevention and control in Hanoi. China was represented by Liu Yuejin, deputy secretary-general of the National Narcotics Control Commission.

Three high-level visits took place before the end of the year. The first visit comprised a senior military delegation, led by Vietnam’s Minister of National Defense General Phung Quang Thanh that visited Beijing from October 16-18. The second high-level visit involved State Councilor Yang Jiechi who journeyed to Hanoi to co-host the 7th Joint Steering Committee meeting on October 27. On November 10, China’s President Xi Jinping met with his Vietnamese counterpart on the sidelines of the APEC Summit in Beijing.

By early December there were further straws in the wind that Sino-Vietnamese relations were gradually picking up. On December 4-5, for example, Vietnam hosted a delegation of People’s Liberation Army (PLA) junior officers. The Chinese officers visited the military-run Tran Quoc Tuan University and were later received by Lt. Gen. Nguyen Trong Nghia, deputy director of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) General Political Department.

On December 9, a delegation from China’s Committee of Border Gate Management Cooperation visited Hanoi for discussion with its counterpart. The delegation was received by Lt. Gen. Vo Van Tuan, deputy chief of the VPA General Staff.

During the third week of December the Vietnamese media carried reports that Vietnam’s Coast Guard had rescued two Chinese fishing boats in waters off its central coast.

The third and most recent high-level official visit took place from December 25-27 when Yu Zhengsheng, member of the CCP Politburo Standing Committee and chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Council, visited Hanoi. Yu was invited by the VCP Central Committee and Vietnam Fatherland Front. On arrival in Hanoi Yu stated that his trip was commissioned by Secretary General Xi and the CCP Central Committee with the objective of enhancing mutual trust, building consensus and boosting progress in bilateral relations “in a correct path.”





_Yu Zhengsheng (2nd L front), a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee and chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, attends the opening ceremony of the Confucius Institute in Hanoi University in Hanoi, capital of Vietnam, Dec. 27, 2014._

On December 25, Yu met with Le Hong Anh in his capacity as Secretary of the VCP Secretariat. Yu noted that Anh’s recent visit to Beijing “contributed significantly to the improvement of China-Vietnam ties.” The following day Yu held discussions with Nguyen Thien Nhan, chairman of the Vietnam Fatherland Front and a member of the VCP Politburo. Yu was also accorded courtesy meetings with Secretary General Trong, President Sang, and Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung.

According to Chinese media accounts, the aim of Yu’s visit was “to enhance high-level exchanges with Vietnam and promote bilateral ties along a correct path. China is willing to enhance communication with Vietnam, and deal with bilateral ties from a strategic view and long-term perspective.” None of the media reports clarified what “a correct path” meant. However, off-the-record discussions between Vietnamese officials and journalists and _The Diplomat_ prior to Yu’s visit provide some insights.

Vietnamese officials confided that China was exerting pressure on Vietnam to adhere to three points: to halt anti-China propaganda, not to internationalize maritime disputes, and to conduct discussions on matters in dispute on a strictly bilateral basis.

Vietnamese journalists privately revealed to _The Diplomat_ that China conveyed its objections to Vietnam’s submission of a statement of interest to the Permanent Court of Arbitration. China demanded that Vietnam keep this statement confidential and not release it publicly.

China also conveyed its displeasure over at least two points reportedly included in Vietnam’s submission. First, China rejected Vietnam’s assertion that the Permanent Court of Arbitration had legal jurisdiction over matters raised by the Philippines in its claim. Second, China disagreed with Vietnam’s reported argument that some of the disputed features in the South China Sea were not entitled to a maritime zone, including either a territorial sea or an exclusive economic zone.

None of these confidential matters were reported in press coverage of Yu’s visit, but it is clear that South China Sea issues were raised. Both sides agreed to settle their differences through dialogue.

After meeting Prime Minister Dung, Yu was quoted as stating, “The maritime issue is highly complicated and sensitive, which requires negotiations to manage and control differences. Megaphone diplomacy can only trigger volatility of public opinion, which should be avoided by both sides.” Yu proposed that both sides should “enhance political trust and build consensus, strengthen guidance in public opinion, and promote substantial cooperation in various areas.”

Yu concluded, “We are ready to beef up coordination with Vietnam, enhance personnel training and media swaps, to lay solid public opinion foundation for the development of China-Vietnam ties.”

After Yu’s meeting with Nhan, he stated “the CCPCC (Chinese Communist Party Central Committee) is willing to work closely with the VFF (Vietnam Fatherland Front) to earnestly fulfill the MoU (Memorandum of Understanding) regarding our cooperation from 2014-2019.” Both the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Council and the Vietnam Fatherland Front are tools of their respective communist parties for mobilizing public opinion in favor of regime policy.

On his final day in Vietnam Yu laid a wreath at Ho Chi Minh’s mausoleum and attended the official opening of the Confucius Institute at the University of Hanoi.

Three days later, in a further sign that bilateral relations were moving in a positive direction, Vietnam hosted a meeting between the directors of China’s Peacekeeping Office and Vietnam’s Peacekeeping Center, both located in their respective ministries of national defense. The Chinese delegation was received by Lt. Gen. Vo Van Tuan, deputy chief of the VPA General Staff.

General Tuan supported future cooperation between Vietnam’s Peacekeeping Center and China’s Peacekeeping Office such as “sharing information, and bettering mechanisms for peacekeeping activities and policies.” Tuan further noted that international cooperation in peacekeeping was one of Vietnam’s important goals in defense diplomacy for 2015 and requested Chinese assistance.

The recent uptick in China-Vietnam relations has been given low-key attention by the Vietnamese media in order not to inflame further Vietnamese domestic anti-China sentiment. Domestic critics charge that government and national leaders have been ineffectual in standing up to China. They further charge that ideology is a flimsy basis for a firm bilateral relationship and Vietnam should “exit China’s orbit.”

According to VCP statutes the Central Committee should meet twice a year. It is not unusual for the Central Committee to convene three times in a calendar year. But in 2014 only one meeting of the Central Committee was held. The ninth plenum took place in May during the HD 981 oilrig crisis. The tenth plenum was reportedly brought forward to August only to be postponed to October, after China withdrew the oil platform in mid-July. The tenth plenum was later rescheduled for December.

Hanoi-based diplomats report that the long-delayed tenth Central Committee plenum is tentatively scheduled to be held from January 5-15. This meeting will focus on two important inter-related issues: an inaugural vote of confidence in high-level party leaders and their handling of relations with China in light of the HD 981 crisis. No doubt Central Committee member will carefully scrutinize understandings and agreements reached during Yu’s visit.

Recent exchanges between China and Vietnam indicate that both sides are committed to lowering tensions caused by the HD 981 crisis. China is particularly concerned to reset relations in order to take the wind out of the sails of those in Vietnam advocating “exiting China’s orbit” and to reassure regional states that China is committed to the peaceful resolution of South China Sea disputes. Beijing is offering to step up relations in a wide variety of areas to demonstrate that there is more to gain by cooperating with China than opposing it.

Both Chinese and Vietnamese leaders realize that their respective communist parties are the key constituencies for promoting stable bilateral relations. Both sides stress the importance of obtaining consensus at the highest leadership level on what steps to take to restore the status quo ante. Both sets of leaders want to ensure that subordinate party and government agencies, including the armed forces, fall into line behind this policy.

Both sides recognize that domestic public opinion could act as a wild card and disrupt attempts to restore and develop bilateral relations. Yu Zhengsheng’s visit was important in this regard because it opened up channels for both sides to engage in propaganda and education mass line (or mass mobilization) activities among their domestic audiences. The scene is being set for a visit by General Secretary and President Xi Jinping to Vietnam this year. No doubt Hanoi would be pleased also to host a visit by President Barack Obama before he steps down from office.

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## Viet

In the above article there is a interesting question: when will the US President, Barack Obama visit Vietnam?
well, I remember he mentioned twice he wanted to do it, though I´m not much optimistic that will happen.

but anyway, here is something that may warm our people´s heart at home, even if he does not come: Barack Obama met with Nina Pham, a vietnamese-american nurse in the Oval Office of the White House. She was caught ill, infected with ebola, when treating a patient in a hospital in Dallas. Thanks to a blood transfusion of a donor (he was ill with ebola as well), she became free of ebola.

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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> From comcom:
> 
> ** T-54 tanks before a regular track maintenance. Some aging T-54/55 units are due to be replaced with upgraded *T-72B3V and T-90SV main battle tanks*. Also the new MBT based on Armata combat platform is being considered.
> 
> View attachment 179356



well good for vietnam get modern MBT cant wait to see it,greeting from indonesia

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## Viet

cam ranh bay. the major naval base, and home of the submarine fleet.

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## Carlosa

MacanJawa said:


> well good for vietnam get modern MBT cant wait to see it,greeting from indonesia


terima kasih, salam kepada Anda.

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## Viet

visit to the Thai royal army: holding the first ever tactical-level officer exchange. the first step to end distrust between the two armies.





Colonel Zalinhuk Aleksandr Nikolaevic from the General Staff of the Russia Armed Forces on a visit to Vietnam army headquarter. I wonder why he wants? joined military exercises on land and sea?






and rare visit of a special guest: the Cuban army chief, Senior Lieutenant General Leopoldo Cintra Frias on a visit to Vietnam. Not a coincidence: America just ends the decade long embargo on the country.


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## Barmaley

Two new frigates of project 11661E "Gepard-3.9" for Vietnam People's Navy. According to contract the first frigate will be delivered in November 2016 and the second in February 2017.
Anti-submarine capabilities were increased compare to the first two frigates of the same project which is were delivered to VPN in 2011.

(photo 06.01.2015)

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## Viet

here is a better picture of the new 2 gepards under construction, with visiting russian guests (or they are family members of the contruction workers?). an interesting fact is the new pair costs $700 million, while the first pair only half: $350 million. I assume the firepower doubles as well.

I await the day, when our russian friends transfer the technology so we can build the next vessels by ourselves.

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> with visiting russian guests (or they are family members of the contruction workers?)



I guess, this is photo from keel-laying ceremony of two cable layer ships of project 15310.


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## MacanJawa

vietnam like russian toys


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> here is a better picture of the new 2 gepards under construction, with visiting russian guests (or they are family members of the contruction workers?). an interesting fact is the new pair costs $700 million, while the first pair only half: $350 million. I assume the firepower doubles as well.
> 
> I await the day, when our russian friends transfer the technology so we can build the next vessels by ourselves.
> View attachment 181994



Very interesting, where did you find the price? If that's the price, then those ships have the Shtil air defense system almost for sure.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> here is a better picture of the new 2 gepards under construction, with visiting russian guests (or they are family members of the contruction workers?). an interesting fact is the new pair costs $700 million, while the first pair only half: $350 million. I assume the firepower doubles as well.
> 
> I await the day, when our russian friends transfer the technology so we can build the next vessels by ourselves.
> View attachment 181994



$350 mil each is very expensive and all it takes is one torpedo to destroy it. Not a good investment in my mind.


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## Thao Nguyen

frequency said:


> $350 mil each is very expensive and all it takes is one torpedo to destroy it. Not a good investment in my mind.


how about 1 bil $ ship, is that more stupid

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## BoQ77

frequency said:


> $350 mil each is very expensive and all it takes is one torpedo to destroy it. Not a good investment in my mind.



Those Gepards for sub hunting.
Btw, we heard that USA is completing the final procedures to totally lift ban of arm sales to Vietnam.
This would be done within this year, marked 20 years of relation VietnAmerican

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very interesting, where did you find the price? If that's the price, then those ships have the Shtil air defense system almost for sure.


I get the info from comrade commissar facebook 
"Theo hợp đồng, tàu 956 sẽ được chuyển tới Việt Nam vào tháng 11/2016, trong khi tàu 957 sẽ về đến Việt Nam vào tháng 3/2017, sớm hơn so với dự kiến. Sau các thử nghiệm, lễ bàn giao chính thức sẽ diễn ra vào tháng 2 và tháng 6/2017.

Trước đây, hợp đồng mua hai tàu Gepard (HQ-011 và HQ-012) trị giá khoảng 350 triệu USD. Với hợp đồng thứ hai này, trị giá hai tàu được ước tính vào khoảng *700 triệu USD*, nhờ đó các tàu Gepard cải tiến này sẽ có năng lực tác chiến vượt trội, cùng với đó là sự bổ sung rất mạnh về khả năng chống ngầm."

I believe, too that the price includes shtil-1 anti aircraft missile and ASW package.
DEFENSE STUDIES: Second Batch of Gepard Equipped with Sthil-1 Missile

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I get the info from comrade commissar facebook
> "Theo hợp đồng, tàu 956 sẽ được chuyển tới Việt Nam vào tháng 11/2016, trong khi tàu 957 sẽ về đến Việt Nam vào tháng 3/2017, sớm hơn so với dự kiến. Sau các thử nghiệm, lễ bàn giao chính thức sẽ diễn ra vào tháng 2 và tháng 6/2017.
> 
> Trước đây, hợp đồng mua hai tàu Gepard (HQ-011 và HQ-012) trị giá khoảng 350 triệu USD. Với hợp đồng thứ hai này, trị giá hai tàu được ước tính vào khoảng *700 triệu USD*, nhờ đó các tàu Gepard cải tiến này sẽ có năng lực tác chiến vượt trội, cùng với đó là sự bổ sung rất mạnh về khả năng chống ngầm."
> 
> I believe, too that the price includes shtil-1 anti aircraft missile and ASW package.
> DEFENSE STUDIES: Second Batch of Gepard Equipped with Sthil-1 Missile



Oh, somehow I missed it from comcom. 

Well, I still think its a bit expensive. For $450 million can get the Admiral Gorshkov class which is a heavy frigate (4500 tons) with the weapon systems of a destroyer, way superior to the Gepard, but oh well, it is what it is.

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## BoQ77

BoQ77 said:


> Those Gepards for sub hunting.
> Btw, we heard that USA is completing the final procedures to totally lift ban of arm sales to Vietnam.
> This would be done within this year, marked 20 years of relation VietnAmerican



I joined the first trade fair with the title "VietnAmerican Trade fair" in Hanoi, 1993 , two years before 1995, two years after collapse of Soviet Union 1991.

I remembered at the time after pick 2 cans of Pepsi soft drink ( first time in my life ), we enjoyed the show of American companies like industrial and consuming air conditioning, materials for beverage, drink, oil exploration ...

I and an older brother joined that fair, at the time he's start his first year in university, me 2 years later in 1995 the year start the relation. Laterly he use the phone number with xxxx1993 until now.

It could be said "we are the generation of normalized relation to American"

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Good job mate!! Happy new year!
> 
> That would explain why the T-72 / 90 had no official announcements.





Echo_419 said:


> How sure are you about the T-72 & T-90 part from India or maybe we are going to provide training for T-90s & spare parts



I'm not sure about anything bro, I'm just quoting from the report.

It didn't say that the T-72 are from India. It said that VietNam is looking to upgrade its T-72 (480 of them) that are already in its possession.

All the T-55/54 will be "replaced by T-90s *obtained* from India."

So they are complete tanks from India and not just spare parts. To me, this sounds like VietNam already possess these T-90s from India, or at least some of them are already in possession.


BTW, does anyone know whether the T-55M3 upgrade project was done by IMI or Elbit?

P. S. the report said VietNam might get some weapons that is very powerful, more powerful than AEGIS destroyers, F-16 or Abram tanks. @Viet will love it for sure!



Carlosa said:


> Very interesting, where did you find the price? If that's the price, then those ships have the Shtil air defense system almost for sure.





Viet said:


> I get the info from comrade commissar facebook
> "Theo hợp đồng, tàu 956 sẽ được chuyển tới Việt Nam vào tháng 11/2016, trong khi tàu 957 sẽ về đến Việt Nam vào tháng 3/2017, sớm hơn so với dự kiến. Sau các thử nghiệm, lễ bàn giao chính thức sẽ diễn ra vào tháng 2 và tháng 6/2017.
> 
> Trước đây, hợp đồng mua hai tàu Gepard (HQ-011 và HQ-012) trị giá khoảng 350 triệu USD. Với hợp đồng thứ hai này, trị giá hai tàu được ước tính vào khoảng *700 triệu USD*, nhờ đó các tàu Gepard cải tiến này sẽ có năng lực tác chiến vượt trội, cùng với đó là sự bổ sung rất mạnh về khả năng chống ngầm."
> 
> I believe, too that the price includes shtil-1 anti aircraft missile and ASW package.
> DEFENSE STUDIES: Second Batch of Gepard Equipped with Sthil-1 Missile



Your website link did not say that this next two Gepards will have Shtil-1. It only said that a "VietNam website speculated."

My report said 6 Gepards are ordered (2 already commissioned, 2 under construction and the next 2 ordered). The latest "order" will have Shtil-1. I dont know what that exactly means.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> I'm not sure about anything bro, I'm just quoting from the report.
> 
> It didn't say that the T-72 are from India. It said that VietNam is looking to upgrade its T-72 (480 of them) that are already in its possession.
> 
> All the T-55/54 will be "replaced by T-90s *obtained* from India."
> 
> So they are complete tanks from India and not just spare parts. To me, this sounds like VietNam already possess these T-90s from India, or at least some of them are already in possession.
> 
> 
> BTW, does anyone know whether the T-55M3 upgrade project was done by IMI or Elbit?
> 
> P. S. the report said VietNam might get some weapons that is very powerful, more powerful than AEGIS destroyers, F-16 or Abram tanks. @Viet will love it for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your website link did not say that this next two Gepards will have Shtil-1. It only said that a "VietNam website speculated."
> 
> My report said 6 Gepards are ordered (2 already commissioned, 2 under construction and the next 2 ordered). The latest "order" will have Shtil-1. I dont know what that exactly means.


nice news, I love it. welcome back. by the way, why were you banned?


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> nice news, I love it. welcome back. by the way, why were you banned?



I haven't posted the part about this new weapon that you're gona love. It will be more powerful than Ticonderoga destroyers, F-16s, Poisedon. This weapon will really make you happy.


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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> I haven't posted the part about this new weapon that you're gona love. It will be more powerful than Ticonderoga destroyers, F-16s, Poisedon. This weapon will really make you happy.


so what are you waiting for? come on, post the article and your comments here. Ticonderoga is a cruiser class, with 10,000 tons displacement. I doubt our navy has money for such toy. we don´t even have any destroyers yet.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> so what are you waiting for? come on, post the article and your comments here. Ticonderoga is a cruiser class, with 10,000 tons displacement. I doubt our navy has money for such toy. we don´t even have any destroyers yet.



It's a 60 page report and I can't post it here because of copyright. I will translate some of the interesting parts. Be patient. 

I did not say VietNam will get the Ticonderoga class, I was talking about something much much more powerful. If VietNam get this weapon, it will definitely be the strongest in ASEAN.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> It's a 60 page report and I can't post it here because of copyright. I will translate some of the interesting parts. Be patient.
> 
> I did not say VietNam will get the Ticonderoga class, I was talking about something much much more powerful. If VietNam get this weapon, it will definitely be the strongest in ASEAN.


fine, okie pls summarize and post the key points here. you are my hero.


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## William Hung

Here I have translated, without needing any help from Google translate, some parts of the report. 



> [[[Note: Bàiviếtnày là do tớ dịchtừ mộtsố thôngtintừ "BáocáoQuốcphòng & Anninh2015" đượcviết từ nhà phân tích phươngTâycủaBMI.]]]
> 
> Hiện nay, Việt Nam phảiđối mặtvới một sốvấnđề bảo mật. Campuchia đãcáobuộc Việt Nam thựchiện hànhvi vi phạmbiên giới, vớicác tranhchấp trên biển giữa hainước còn tồn tại. Và tương tự như thế, Việt Nam cũngcòn căngthẳng tồntại với Trung Quốc chiếmquần đảoHoàng Sa, trongđó Việt Nam tuyên bố là chủ quyền của đảo này. Ngoài ra, cả Trung Quốc và Việt Nam vẫn tiếp tục xây dựng cơ sở ở quần đảo Trường Sa đang tranh chấp.
> 
> Chúngtôi dựđoán Việt Nam sẽchi tới USD7.7 tỷcho quốcphòng trong năm 2015. Đây là một sự gia tăng đáng chú ý vì nămngoái nướcnàychỉ chi USD6.7 tỷ choquốcphòng. Tính trung bình, chi tiêu quốc phòng của Việt Nam đã tăng lên từ khi bắt đầu thập kỷ này. Từ đây đến năm 2019, chúng tôi dự đoán Việt Nam sẽ chi tiêu trung bình USD9.3 tỷ cho quốc phòng mỗi năm, và sẽ chi tiêu cho quốc phòng đến USD11.1 tỷ vào năm 2019.
> 
> Trong tháng 10 năm 2014, Mỹđã quyếtđịnh chophép bán các vũ khí sát thương choViệt Nam. Mỹđã thực hiện sựthayđổi chính sáchnày để tăng cường an ninh hàng hải cho Việt Nam để đối mặt với các mối đe dọa an ninh từ Trung Quốc. Trong tương lai, Việt Nam có thể mua máy bay tuần tra Lockheed Martin P-3 Orion và vận tải C-130 turboprop.
> 
> Quan hệ với Mỹ đã chứng kiến một sự cải thiện đáng kể, và Washington coi Hà Nội như một đồng minh tiềm năng địa chính trị trong khu vực Đông Nam Á. Cải thiện quan hệ với sự huấn luyện với Mỹ sẽ cho Việt Nam khai thác vào ngành công nghiệp quốc phòng chuyên môn của Mỹ trong dài hạn, có khả năng hưởng lợi từ việc cung cấp các vũ khí sát thương.
> 
> Mặcdù một số nước phươngTây, như là Mỹ, đangtỏ ra quan tầm càng ngày càng tăng trong việc bán vũ khí cho Việt Nam, nhưngNga đã tiếnhành các bước đểbảovệ thị phần lớn của thị trường quốc phòng Việt Nam. Nga công bố rằng trong năm 2012, Việt Nam là mộttrong nhữngkháchhàng quantrọngnhất của họ. Tuy nhiên, Nga sẽ khôngcó ý định từbỏ vị trí thốnglĩnh thị trườngnày.
> 
> Ngacó thểcung cấpmột kếhoạch chi tiếtcho Việt Nam phát triển ngành công nghiệp. Thỏa thuậnNga giúp Việt Nam sản xuất tên lửa chống hạm và các UAV sẽcho Việt Nam ngành côngnghiệp mới với tínhnăng quantrọng.
> 
> Hải quân Việt Nam cũngđã đặthàng sáutàu khu trục Gepard 3.9. Haitàu đầutiên đã phục vụ hoạt động, được thiếtkế để chiếnđấu chống hạm. Haitàu sau với khả năng chống tàu ngầm sẽđược đưavào hoạt động vàonăm 2017, và hai tàutiếptheo với khả năng chưaxácđịnh cũng đượcđặt hàng. Các đơn đặthàng tàumới này sẽ cóhệ thống tênlửa phòngkhông hải quân 3S90E Shtil-1.
> 
> Trước đây, Việt Nam chỉ đơngiản là mua trang thiếtbị quânsự hiệnđại, thường là từNga, và thường dựavào tíndụng. Trong khi loại hợp đồng này sẽvẫn tiếptục - và trongkhi Việt Nam vẫn nguồnphần lớn cácthiết bị quân sự từNga - Hà Nội đang bắtđầu ápdụng một cách tiếpcận thôngminh hơn và định hướng tươnglai nhiều hơn, tìm kiếm đốitác côngnghiệp quốc tế và đòihỏi các hợpđồng muasắm vũ khí baogồm chuyển giao công nghệ.
> 
> Indonesia, Ý, Thụy Điển, Anh, Hàn Quốc và Ấn Độ là quốcgia đã nổilên để trở thành đốitác công nghiệp quốc phòng tiềm năng. Được mua sắm bốn tàu khutrục modular từHàLan, trong đó có hai chiếc tàu này sẽđược xâydựng tại Việt Nam, sẽ cungcấp cho ngành công nghiệp kinh nghiệm cắt-cạnh công nghệ đóngtàu.
> 
> Ngoài ra, Việt Nam đã nỗ lực tăng cường hợptác quốcphòng với vài nước châu Âu, như Pháp. Những mối quan hệ được coi như là mộtcơhội để vượt qua các vũkhí chất lượng thấp của Nga/Liên Xô để muasắm vũkhí của châu Âu thườngcoi là hiện đại và đáng tin cậy hơn. Trong tháng 11 năm 2013, Việt Nam vàPháp đã ký một thỏa thuận nhằm tăngcường hợptác quốc phòng, đặc biệt là trongviệc trao đổi đoàn, sự huấn luyện, sự xây dựng côngnghiệp quốc phòng và an ninh hànghải.
> 
> Trong Q1 năm 2014, được báocáo rằng Hà Nội đang thươnglượng với Airbus trực thăng, công ty hải quân Pháp DCNS và hãng sản xuất tên lửa MBDA. Các côngty này xemViệtNam là một thịtrường mới đầy thú vị, với nhiều tiềm năng pháttriển trong tình hình an ninh khuvực, cũng như tăng trưởng kinh tế của Việt Nam.
> 
> Trong tháng 11 năm 2013, Ấn Độ đã dànhcho Việt Nam mộtgói tín dụng USD100 triệu để mua bốntàutuần tra. Ngoài ra, thỏa thuậnsơbộ đã được thực hiện cho việc bán tên lửa BrahMos cho Việt Nam, đào tạo 500 thủy thủ Việt và việc duy trì nền tảng quân sự thời Liên Xô. Trong Q1 năm 2014, được báocáo rằng Việt Nam đang tìmcách để nângcấp 480 T-72 MBT thuộc về bộphận xe tăng của họ, và thaythế cả 1000 T-55s bằng T-90s nhận được từ Ấn Độ.
> 
> Ấn Độ sẽhỗ trợ Bộ Quốc phòng của Việt Nam để thúcđẩy khả năng quân sự. Ngoài hỗtrợ lẫn nhau trong các ngành công nghiệp quốc phòng, Ấn Độ và Việt Nam sẽ cùngnhau sản xuất vũ khí chođấtnước họ và khu vực ĐôngNamÁ.



What do you think of my Vietnamese writing skills? I haven't translated the part about the stronger-than-ticonderoga weapon yet. I'll leave it for next time. Now I'm off to sleep.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Here I have translated, without needing any help from Google translate, some parts of the report.
> 
> What do you think of my Vietnamese writing skills? I haven't translated the part about the stronger-than-ticonderoga weapon yet. I'll leave it for next time. Now I'm off to sleep.


wow I am impressed. are you vietnamese? no foreigner could have translated in a good manner. how is the paper credibility? here are some key points from the paper:

VN defence budget:
_2014: $6.7b
2015: $7.7b
2019: $11.1b_

Cambodia:
border violation.

China:
South China Sea dispute.

America:
VN is interested in P-3 Orion and C-130 turboprop.

Russsia:
VN gets help in manufacturing UAV.
4 more Gepards instead of 2, all to be delivered in 2017.

France:
VN in negotiation for helicopters, missiles.

India:
VN in negotiation for T-72 and T-90 tanks.

Indonesia, Italy, Sweden, England, S Korea and India:
VN increasingly defence cooperations

Netherland:
2 (Sigmar?) modular warships built by Vietnam.




Black Flag said:


> Your website link did not say that this next two Gepards will have Shtil-1. It only said that a "VietNam website speculated."
> 
> My report said *6 Gepards are ordered *(2 already commissioned, 2 under construction and the next 2 ordered). The latest "order" will have Shtil-1. I dont know what that exactly means.


according to the state media "voice of vietnam", we have ordered 4 more gepards. bringen the total number to 6. so the report seems to acknowledge this rumour.

Vietnam purchases two more Russian frigates | VOV Online Newspaper

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> I'm not sure about anything bro, I'm just quoting from the report.
> 
> It didn't say that the T-72 are from India. It said that VietNam is looking to upgrade its T-72 (480 of them) that are already in its possession.
> 
> All the T-55/54 will be "replaced by T-90s *obtained* from India."
> 
> So they are complete tanks from India and not just spare parts. To me, this sounds like VietNam already possess these T-90s from India, or at least some of them are already in possession.
> 
> 
> BTW, does anyone know whether the T-55M3 upgrade project was done by IMI or Elbit?
> 
> P. S. the report said VietNam might get some weapons that is very powerful, more powerful than AEGIS destroyers, F-16 or Abram tanks. @Viet will love it for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your website link did not say that this next two Gepards will have Shtil-1. It only said that a "VietNam website speculated."
> 
> My report said 6 Gepards are ordered (2 already commissioned, 2 under construction and the next 2 ordered). The latest "order" will have Shtil-1. I dont know what that exactly means.



Yes, the article from Viet is from 2013 and at that point it was just speculation. I did hear a few rumors about the Shtil but didn't want to believe it until something more clear shows up (plus I'm not a big fan of Shtil). But your info mentions a third set of Gepards, now that is really new. 

A new ship even more powerful than an AEGIS destroyer? Hmmmm maybe a light helicopter carrier? Its not easy to imagine a ship more powerful than a AEGIS, I assume that you mean a surface ship. I know the Russians are working on some new concepts of destroyers (very powerful ones), but still in the development phase. Is it Russian or Indian?

You realize that we are all suffering while waiting to hear the details, don't you?
Please spill the beans amigo............

Regarding the T-90, sources say that is already deployed in limited numbers, so I'm pretty sure about that, but the surprise here is that they are from India.

So VN has 480 T-72's, interesting, I knew they had some, but that's a nice number. Do you know which one, T-72M1M per chance?

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## Thao Nguyen

Already posessed 480 T72 
It's just new year now, don't detonate a bomb here man


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> wow I am impressed. are you vietnamese? no foreigner could have translated in a good manner. how is the paper credibility?



Damn my Vietnamese writing skill is that good? 

The report is this one:

Vietnam Defence & Security Report

It will cost you over US$1000 to purchase that report. It was produced by BMI, who specialises in market research for major companies and investors. What is their credibility? well BMI just got purchased by Fitch Group. 

Anyway, I actually don't know it's credential. They could be right or they could be wrong, I'm just reporting some of the interesting bits. 




> here are some key points from the paper:
> 
> VN defence budget:
> _2014: $6.7b
> 2015: $7.7b
> 2019: $11.1b_
> 
> America:
> VN is interested in P-3 Orion and C-130 turboprop.
> 
> Russsia:
> VN gets help in manufacturing UAV.
> 4 more Gepards instead of 2, all to be delivered in 2017.
> 
> France:
> VN in negotiation for helicopters, missiles.
> 
> India:
> VN in negotiation for T-72 and T-90 tanks.



Your Vietnamese reading skills really sucks!! Are you are a real VietNamese? Your translation are nearly all wrong!! Maybe my translation was bad?

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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> Already posessed 480 T72
> It's just new year now, don't detonate a bomb here man


no, the report says Vietnam looks to acquire 480 T-72s. I think India can sell us some T-72 and T-90 tanks, while we produce the rest under license. the T-90s would gradually replace the existing 1,000 T-55 tanks.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> wow I am impressed. are you vietnamese? no foreigner could have translated in a good manner. how is the paper credibility? here are some key points from the paper:
> 
> VN defence budget:
> _2014: $6.7b
> 2015: $7.7b
> 2019: $11.1b_
> 
> Cambodia:
> border violation.
> 
> China:
> South China Sea dispute.
> 
> America:
> VN is interested in P-3 Orion and C-130 turboprop.
> 
> Russsia:
> VN gets help in manufacturing UAV.
> 4 more Gepards instead of 2, all to be delivered in 2017.
> 
> France:
> VN in negotiation for helicopters, missiles.
> 
> India:
> VN in negotiation for T-72 and T-90 tanks.
> 
> Indonesia, Italy, Sweden, England, S Korea and India:
> VN increasingly defence cooperations
> 
> Netherland:
> 2 (Sigmar?) modular warships built by Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> according to the state media "voice of vietnam", we have ordered 4 more gepards. bringen the total number to 6. so the report seems to acknowledge this rumour.
> 
> Vietnam purchases two more Russian frigates | VOV Online Newspaper



He used to say that he is 1/3 Viet, 1/3 Indian and 1/3 American, well, that's a good combination, those are the new friends of VN now. If he were to have a bit of Russian in him, that would complete the circle, ha ha.

That rumor about a third set of Gepards was dismissed as a mistake, now I think that dismissal was a plot to keep it hidden. Hmmmm very interesting.

Well, VN added $3 billion to the defense budget, that can buy a lot of good stuff.

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## Viet

Black Flag said:


> Damn my Vietnamese writing skill is that good?
> 
> The report is this one:
> 
> Vietnam Defence & Security Report
> 
> It will cost you over US$1000 to purchase that report. It was produced by BMI, who specialises in market research for major companies and investors. What is their credibility? well BMI just got purchased by Fitch Group.
> 
> Anyway, I actually don't know it's credential. They could be right or they could be wrong, I'm just reporting some of the interesting bits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your Vietnamese reading skills really sucks!! Are you are a real VietNamese? Your translation are nearly all wrong!! Maybe my translation was bad?


my vietnamese skill suffers a lot as I am living too long overseas. I speak/write more in german than vietnamese.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> no, the report says Vietnam looks to acquire 480 T-72s. I think India can sell us some T-72 and T-90 tanks, while we produce the rest under license. the T-90s would gradually replace the existing 1,000 T-55 tanks.



REPORT IN ENGLISH, PLEASE........................


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> He used to say that he is 1/3 Viet, 1/3 Indian and 1/3 American, well, that's a good combination, those are the new friends of VN now. If he were to have a bit of Russian in him, that would complete the circle, ha ha.
> 
> That rumor about a third set of Gepards was dismissed as a mistake, now I think that dismissal was a plot to keep it hidden. Hmmmm very interesting.
> 
> Well, VN added $3 billion to the defense budget, that can buy a lot of good stuff.


black is a guy, you should not trust. no, just a joke of mine. yes, bro, that is nice: $11b defence money is a good starting point.

*Vietnam Defence & Security Report*
Published 22 December 2014


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Summary
Table of Contents
Product Description
Our Service
We forecast that Vietnam will spend up to USD7.7bn on defence in 2015. This is a notable increase from the USD6.7bn which the country spent on defence last year. On average, Vietnamese defence expenditure has risen since the commencement of the decade. Up to and including 2019, we expect Vietnam to spend an average of USD9.3bn on defence annually, with defence spending reaching USD11.1bn in 2019.

We have given Vietnam an overall security risk index of 75 for Q115. On average, the country has scored an overall security risk index of 76 for the period February 2009 up to and including Q115. As the discussion below will illustrate, we believe that Vietnam faces a moderate risk of becoming involved in a major interstate conflict. That said, we believe that the country has a low risk of experiencing a major terrorist attack, although it does face a moderate risk of experiencing major criminal activity.

_Key Risks To Outlook_

Vietnam faces a number of security issues. Cambodia has accused Vietnam of performing border violations, with maritime disputes between the two countries also existing. Similarly, tensions exist with China which occupies the Paracel Islands, which are claimed by Vietnam. In addition, Vietnam continues the construction of facilities in the disputed Spratly Islands, while occasional tensions have existed in the past with Indonesia regarding illegal fishing.

_Recent Developments_

In October 2014, the United States took the decision to authorise the sale of lethal military equipment to Vietnam. The US has performed this change of policy to strengthen Vietnamese maritime security in the face of security threats from China. Equipment mooted for possible future sale to Vietnam include _Lockheed Martin_ P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft and C-130 turboprop freighters from the same company.

- See more at: Vietnam Defence & Security Report

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## William Hung

Thao Nguyen said:


> Already posessed 480 T72
> It's just new year now, don't detonate a bomb here man



That's what the report say. They are written by Western analysts. Myself, I dont know if they are correct or not, I'm just reporting what they say.

You will even be more shocked about another weapon that they discussed about.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, the article from Viet is from 2013 and at that point it was just speculation. I did hear a few rumors about the Shtil but didn't want to believe it until something more clear shows up (plus I'm not a big fan of Shtil). But your info mentions a third set of Gepards, now that is really new.



It said the 5th and 6th Gepards "are also on order." and that "the latest orders will reportedly feature.... shtil-1." So I dont know if they mean all 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th will have shtil-1 or just the 5th and 6th will have them.



> A new ship even more powerful than an AEGIS destroyer? Hmmmm maybe a light helicopter carrier? Its not easy to imagine a ship more powerful than a AEGIS, I assume that you mean a surface ship. I know the Russians are working on some new concepts of destroyers (very powerful ones), but still in the development phase. Is it Russian or Indian?



I said a weapon that is more powerful than Ticonderoga, F-16s and Poseidon. So it doesn't have to be a ship. The report didn't say VietNam has it yet, but the analysts are "expecting" it.

As for its origin, the report said VietNam could choose either Russia or India for assistance.



> You realize that we are all suffering while waiting to hear the details, don't you?
> Please spill the beans amigo............



There's only that mystery weapon that is really interesting. The other comments is on kilo submarines, molniya, etc. you all already know about it. I'll just ignore those comments.



> Regarding the T-90, sources say that is already deployed in limited numbers, so I'm pretty sure about that, but the surprise here is that they are from India.



The report specifically said "obtained". It could be a typo or they really mean it. They specifically said it is the T-90s variant.



> So VN has 480 T-72's, interesting, I knew they had some, but that's a nice number. Do you know which one, T-72M1M per chance?



They didn't say which type They just say T-72.

Btw, what are the chances that the Elbit contract mentioned last year was actually for these T-72 and not the T-55?



Viet said:


> no, the report says Vietnam looks to acquire 480 T-72s. I think India can sell us some T-72 and T-90 tanks, while we produce the rest under license. the T-90s would gradually replace the existing 1,000 T-55 tanks.



No, the report said Vietnam already have those 480 T-72. Last January, they received report that VietNam was looking to upgrade them. 

Yes it say the T-55 will be replaced with T-90s.



Carlosa said:


> Well, VN added $3 billion to the defense budget, that can buy a lot of good stuff.



All those numbers are their own estimation.
The report doesn't accept the official numbers from the govt, they calculate their own numbers based on the security threat of the country, the economic performance of VN and information from the defense industry.


----------



## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> That's what the report say. They are written by Western analysts. Myself, I dont know if they are correct or not, I'm just reporting what they say.
> 
> You will even be more shocked about another weapon that they discussed about.
> 
> 
> 
> It said the 5th and 6th Gepards "are also on order." and that "the latest orders will reportedly feature.... shtil-1." So I dont know if they mean all 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th will have shtil-1 or just the 5th and 6th will have them.
> 
> 
> 
> I said a weapon that is more powerful than Ticonderoga, F-16s and Poseidon. So it doesn't have to be a ship. The report didn't say VietNam has it yet, but the analysts are "expecting" it.
> 
> As for its origin, the report said VietNam could choose either Russia or India for assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> There's only that mystery weapon that is really interesting. The other comments is on kilo submarines, molniya, etc. you all already know about it. I'll just ignore those comments.
> 
> 
> 
> The report specifically said "obtained". It could be a typo or they really mean it. They specifically said it is the T-90s variant.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't say which type They just say T-72.
> 
> Btw, what are the chances that the Elbit contract mentioned last year was actually for these T-72 and not the T-55?
> 
> 
> 
> No, the report said Vietnam already have those 480 T-72. Last January, they received report that VietNam was looking to upgrade them.
> 
> Yes it say the T-55 will be replaced with T-90s.
> 
> 
> 
> All those numbers are their own estimation.
> The report doesn't accept the official numbers from the govt, they calculate their own numbers based on the security threat of the country, the economic performance of VN and information from the defense industry.



I think "obtained" in relation to the T-90 is correct, not a typo, that would be consistent with other sources, same thing for the T-72 where just the quantity was not known.

The Elbit contract could indeed had been changed from the T-55 to the T-72, that makes a lot of sense.

Everybody knows that the official VN defense numbers are just a partial number, I was working with the number of 7.8 billion for 2013 according to other sources, so the number in this report might actually be lower than the real number.

If the mystery weapon is not a ship, it could be a Viet version of the DF-41 anti aircraft carrier missile that China has, that would be very powerful.

Waiting for the info amigo........

I can't imagine the second batch of Gepards being $350 million and not having the Shtil.

So the report talks about VN making the T-90 under license also?

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> The Elbit contract could indeed had been changed from the T-55 to the T-72, that makes a lot of sense.



That's only if the Elbit contract is for VietNam.
What if that contract was for Cambodia? 

BTW, who was involved in the T-55M3 project? if it was IMI, then it means that the Elbit contract is not for the Viet T-55/54.




> Everybody knows that the official VN defense numbers are just a partial number, I was working with the number of 7.8 billion for 2013 according to other sources, so the number in this report might actually be lower than the real number.



The report said VN will start to use public tender for weapons procurement so there will be less guessing game for you and Viet.



> If the mystery weapon is not a ship, it could be a Viet version of the DF-41 anti aircraft carrier missile that China has, that would be very powerful.
> 
> Waiting for the info amigo........



Stronger than that.



> I can't imagine the second batch of Gepards being $350 million and not having the Shtil.



It said the latest order will have Shtil. But I don't know whether the "latest order" include the current 2 Gepards under construction or just the future 5th and 6th Gepards.



> So the report talks about VN making the T-90 under license also?



No, it didn't say that. But it did say that VietNam and India will collaborate to produce weapons for themselves *and* for the export market. I don't know which weapons they are planning.

BTW, the original T-90s from Russia wasn't suitable for the hot Indian climate so India had to develop it's own air conditioning system for the T-90s. Plus India had experimented their own sensors/FCS on the T-90s and said their one was more superior than the original Russian sensors, so it would make alot of sense for VietNam to prefer the Indian T-90s.

@Echo_419, @kaku1, @sreekumar, @Water Car Engineer, etc, can you confirm this?

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> That's only if the Elbit contract is for VietNam.
> What if that contract was for Cambodia?
> 
> BTW, who was involved in the T-55M3 project? if it was IMI, then it means that the Elbit contract is not for the Viet T-55/54.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The report said VN will start to use public tender for weapons procurement so there will be less guessing game for you and Viet.
> 
> 
> 
> Stronger than that.
> 
> 
> 
> It said the latest order will have Shtil. But I don't know whether the "latest order" include the current 2 Gepards under construction or just the future 5th and 6th Gepards.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it didn't say that. But it did say that VietNam and India will collaborate to produce weapons for themselves *and* for the export market. I don't know which weapons they are planning.
> 
> BTW, the original T-90s from Russia wasn't suitable for the hot Indian climate so India had to develop it's own air conditioning system for the T-90s. Plus India had experimented their own sensors/FCS on the T-90s and said their one was more superior than the original Russian sensors, so it would make alot of sense for VietNam to prefer the Indian T-90s.
> 
> @Echo_419, @kaku1, @sreekumar, @Water Car Engineer, etc, can you confirm this?



The plot thickens, I just asked the source at comcom and they replied that they don't think that the second batch of Gepards have the Shtil, maybe have a beefed up version of the Palma. I told them how then can justify the price of the ship at $350 million. I'll see what they'll reply and post it here.

Yes, very true about the Indian T-90, they use western sensors / fire control system (actually, the Russians had started to buy that for their own tanks also).



Black Flag said:


> Stronger than that.



Darn, this is intriguing man. 

How about a heavy bomber? Hypersonic missiles like the Brahmos 2 at mach 5 minimum?



Black Flag said:


> BTW, who was involved in the T-55M3 project? if it was IMI, then it means that the Elbit contract is not for the Viet T-55/54.
> ?



Elbit was the one that got the contract to upgrade the Viet T-55's.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> The plot thickens, I just asked the source at comcom and they replied that they don't think that the second batch of Gepards have the Shtil, maybe have a beefed up version of the Palma. I told them how then can justify the price of the ship at $350 million. I'll see what they'll reply and post it here.



Is it really $350mil? thats too much for a Gepard. $350million is the price of a modern European light frigate/corvette. Someone received a special envelop? lol



> Yes, very true about the Indian T-90, they use western sensors / fire control system (actually, the Russians had started to buy that for their own tanks also).



@Indos, can you send me a PM bro? I think you can help @madokafc confirm that the T-72 and T-90s rumours are true.





> Darn, this is intriguing man.
> 
> How about a heavy bomber? Hypersonic missiles like the Brahmos 2 at mach 5 minimum?



Let's just say, if you read the report, you will not believe it yourself. And I don't think it is possible to have it within the next 5 years, if possible at all.

OK I'm logging out now bro.

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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> wow I am impressed. are you vietnamese? no foreigner could have translated in a good manner. how is the paper credibility? here are some key points from the paper:
> 
> VN defence budget:
> _2014: $6.7b
> 2015: $7.7b
> 2019: $11.1b_
> 
> Cambodia:
> border violation.
> 
> China:
> South China Sea dispute.
> 
> America:
> VN is interested in P-3 Orion and C-130 turboprop.
> 
> Russsia:
> VN gets help in manufacturing UAV.
> 4 more Gepards instead of 2, all to be delivered in 2017.
> 
> France:
> VN in negotiation for helicopters, missiles.
> 
> India:
> VN in negotiation for T-72 and T-90 tanks.
> 
> Indonesia, Italy, Sweden, England, S Korea and India:
> VN increasingly defence cooperations
> 
> Netherland:
> 2 (Sigmar?) modular warships built by Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> according to the state media "voice of vietnam", we have ordered 4 more gepards. bringen the total number to 6. so the report seems to acknowledge this rumour.
> 
> Vietnam purchases two more Russian frigates | VOV Online Newspaper



Russia & India are working on a Plane similar to C-130 will be a lot cheaper & will have no strings attached & when are you looking to buy C-130 type of planes



Black Flag said:


> That's only if the Elbit contract is for VietNam.
> What if that contract was for Cambodia?
> 
> BTW, who was involved in the T-55M3 project? if it was IMI, then it means that the Elbit contract is not for the Viet T-55/54.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The report said VN will start to use public tender for weapons procurement so there will be less guessing game for you and Viet.
> 
> 
> 
> Stronger than that.
> 
> 
> 
> It said the latest order will have Shtil. But I don't know whether the "latest order" include the current 2 Gepards under construction or just the future 5th and 6th Gepards.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it didn't say that. But it did say that VietNam and India will collaborate to produce weapons for themselves *and* for the export market. I don't know which weapons they are planning.
> 
> BTW, the original T-90s from Russia wasn't suitable for the hot Indian climate so India had to develop it's own air conditioning system for the T-90s. Plus India had experimented their own sensors/FCS on the T-90s and said their one was more superior than the original Russian sensors, so it would make alot of sense for VietNam to prefer the Indian T-90s.
> 
> @Echo_419, @kaku1, @sreekumar, @Water Car Engineer, etc, can you confirm this?



If Russia & Vietnam can reach a understanding that Vietnam wants some Indian systems on their T-90 their will be no problems from our side

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## kaku1

Black Flag said:


> That's only if the Elbit contract is for VietNam.
> What if that contract was for Cambodia?
> 
> BTW, who was involved in the T-55M3 project? if it was IMI, then it means that the Elbit contract is not for the Viet T-55/54.


There may be possibility if India lobby for Vietnam. It can provide sensors and radars, I dont know why the Vietnam didnt chooses MF-STAR with Barak-8 for SIGMA.

See, the new corvettes Israel is planning.

One, thing more, that VN require to standardize its weapon system like in SIGMA OTO Malera 76mm gun, and in Gepard it using Ak-176.

That can cause maintenance problem.




> No, it didn't say that. But it did say that VietNam and India will collaborate to produce weapons for themselves *and* for the export market. I don't know which weapons they are planning.



Possibly Vietnam can join LCH, Rustom-H HALE UAV, Rustom UCAV and HELINA .LCH Rustom-H and HELINA is in final stage of completion, Vietnam can choose its sensor, and with help of India modify it. And get ToT for that. And can import some HAL Rudra directly. 

Light Attack Helicopter and UAV going to need for checking the whole EEZ and Chinese activities in SCS. Intelligence is now biggest warfare.



















One more thing, Vietnam can join IRNSS project and request to launch one more sat by which Vietnam able to use navigation on military grade.



> BTW, the original T-90s from Russia wasn't suitable for the hot Indian climate so India had to develop it's own air conditioning system for the T-90s. Plus India had experimented their own sensors/FCS on the T-90s and said their one was more superior than the original Russian sensors, so it would make alot of sense for VietNam to prefer the Indian T-90s.
> 
> @Echo_419, @kaku1, @sreekumar, @Water Car Engineer, etc, can you confirm this?



Yes thats correct, the T-90* Bhisma* is Indian version. BEL and Israeli electronics, new fire control system etc.

Thats problem with every russian military component, in First batch of Talwar, the Kashtan CIWS was used, but IN was so much unsatisfied that they switch back to Ak-630.

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## Nike

I think it is very correct about Indian T-72 and T-90 using some western and indigenous components. But i will doubt if India can sell their Bhisma to another foreign countries as the license is just for domestic use, not including export license. Except, if India sell their second hand units like their Ajeeyas (T-72)

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Is it really $350mil? thats too much for a Gepard. $350million is the price of a modern European light frigate/corvette. Someone received a special envelop? lol.



The $350 million thing came from comcom, they are usually right, but I just don't see what is there to justify the price, I'm waiting for more info from them.

Yes, its definitely a high price for a Gepard, I was thinking the same thing about "black envelops" as they are called in Vietnam.



madokafc said:


> I think it is very correct about Indian T-72 and T-90 using some western and indigenous components. But i will doubt if India can sell their Bhisma to another foreign countries as the license is just for domestic use, not including export license. Except, if India sell their second hand units like their Ajeeyas (T-72)



But how do you know that the license has not being negotiated with Russia to allow the export to VN?



Black Flag said:


> I
> 
> Let's just say, if you read the report, you will not believe it yourself. And I don't think it is possible to have it within the next 5 years, if possible at all.
> OK I'm logging out now bro.



You still insist in making me wait and suffer huh?
Darn, what is it? Tactical nuclear weapons, high power lasers, particle bean weapons, photon torpedoes, second hand aircraft carriers, the starship Enterprise? 



kaku1 said:


> There may be possibility if India lobby for Vietnam. It can provide sensors and radars, I dont know why the Vietnam didnt chooses MF-STAR with Barak-8 for SIGMA..



I don't know man, Black flag and I, we are fans of the Barak 8 with either Israeli or French radars (Smart S or Smart L) which are way better than the radars in the Gepard.

VN should buy the Oto Melara 76mm made in India under Italian license and make it the new standard gun.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> I don't know man, Black flag and I, we are fans of the Barak 8 with either Israeli or French radars (Smart S or Smart L) which are way better than the radars in the Gepard.



Yes, I dont know how the hell the cost skyrocketed to $350 mn a ship, without any good air search radar and aster.
VN can ask Netherlands about Aster, like how the french accommodated in Formidable class, or instead go for Formidable, the best estimate is that Singapore spent 1.4 bn for 4 Formidable . Aster will be game changer in SCS.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> Is it really $350mil? thats too much for a Gepard. $350million is the price of a modern European light frigate/corvette. Someone received a special envelop? lol.



@Viet The source at comcom replied to me that the reason for the $350 million for the Gepard is that it has a Reduct VLS system. The Reduct VLS can be used with the KH-35 and other missiles; its a 16 cell system. I'm trying to find out what missile gets used there.

There is a possibility that the Gepards carry the Kinzhai missiles for air defense (naval version of the Tor).


----------



## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> @Viet The source at comcom replied to me that the reason for the $350 million for the Gepard is that it has a Reduct VLS system. The Reduct VLS can be used with the KH-35 and other missiles; its a 16 cell system. I'm trying to find out what missile gets used there.


Bloody hell, so much cost for just VLS system, and even not of weapon system?

A whole shivalik was constructed with weapon system in $350 mn.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Bloody hell, so much cost for just VLS system, and even not of weapon system?
> 
> A whole shivalik was constructed with weapon system in $350 mn.



I agree, I'm trying to get more details that can explain the cost.
There is a possibility that the Gepards carry the Kinzhai missiles for air defense (naval version of the Tor).


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## William Hung

madokafc said:


> I think it is very correct about Indian T-72 and T-90 using some western and indigenous components. But i will doubt if India can sell their Bhisma to another foreign countries as the license is just for domestic use, not including export license. Except, if India sell their second hand units like their Ajeeyas (T-72)



OK I will try to get someone you trust to confirm this report about T-72 and Indian T-90s:

@Nihonjin1051 bro, do you have access to BMI (business monitor international) reports? (they should be available from your University's online database). If you do, can you please check out the "Vietnam defence & Security Report Q1 2015" and confirm to our dear @madokafc that the report does mention the 480 T-72 and Indian T-90s obtained by VietNam?

Thanks mate.



Carlosa said:


> @Viet The source at comcom replied to me that the reason for the $350 million for the Gepard is that it has a Reduct VLS system. The Reduct VLS can be used with the KH-35 and other missiles; its a 16 cell system. I'm trying to find out what missile gets used there.
> 
> There is a possibility that the Gepards carry the Kinzhai missiles for air defense (naval version of the Tor).



That's hard to believe. I don't think the Gepards even has enough space for a 16 cell VLS.



Echo_419 said:


> Russia & India are working on a Plane similar to C-130 will be a lot cheaper & will have no strings attached & when are you looking to buy C-130 type of planes
> 
> If Russia & Vietnam can reach a understanding that Vietnam wants some Indian systems on their T-90 their will be no problems from our side.



If they are interested in C-130, then they might go for the second hand ones for lower cost.



kaku1 said:


> Possibly Vietnam can join LCH, Rustom-H HALE UAV, Rustom UCAV and HELINA .LCH Rustom-H and HELINA is in final stage of completion, Vietnam can choose its sensor, and with help of India modify it. And get ToT for that. And can import some HAL Rudra directly.
> 
> Light Attack Helicopter and UAV going to need for checking the whole EEZ and Chinese activities in SCS. Intelligence is now biggest warfare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing, Vietnam can join IRNSS project and request to launch one more sat by which Vietnam able to use navigation on military grade.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes thats correct, the T-90* Bhisma* is Indian version. BEL and Israeli electronics, new fire control system etc.
> 
> Thats problem with every russian military component, in First batch of Talwar, the Kashtan CIWS was used, but IN was so much unsatisfied that they switch back to Ak-630.



VietNam does not have the industrial base for a co-joint helicopter production program with India. But UAV production is very possible. I think you might be correct on that one. I think the report also "hinted" about missiles, if I read it correctly.

The report also mentioned that VN and India has reached a "preliminary" agreement for BrahMos sales.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, its definitely a high price for a Gepard, I was thinking the same thing about "black envelops" as they are called in Vietnam.



If that price is correct, then it must be a really thick envelope!!! 



> You still insist in making me wait and suffer huh?
> Darn, what is it? Tactical nuclear weapons, high power lasers, particle bean weapons, photon torpedoes, second hand aircraft carriers, the starship Enterprise?



I think I'll leave it as a mystery for now.

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## kangaroo

Carlosa said:


> You still insist in making me wait and suffer huh?
> Darn, what is it? Tactical nuclear weapons, high power lasers, particle bean weapons, photon torpedoes, second hand aircraft carriers, the starship Enterprise?
> 
> 
> 
> hi guys, im new here. have been lurking for a while and reading very interesting things from this forum. now that i got my hands on the report, regarding the weapon Blackflag mentioned, it will be a long run before we see any progress. probably at least 10 years as the fundamental project required for this weapon wont be started until 2017.
> so you can google all the upcoming projects in vietnam!!!!!

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## William Hung

kangaroo said:


> hi guys, im new here. have been lurking for a while and reading very interesting things from this forum. now that i got my hands on the report, regarding the weapon Blackflag mentioned, it will be a long run before we see any progress. probably at least 10 years as the fundamental project required for this weapon wont be started until 2017.
> so you can google all the upcoming projects in vietnam!!!!!



Hey welcome bro!

Are you referring to the weapon mentioned in page 33 in the report? Let's just keep that weapon a mystery here for now.

Let's just say, Vietnam will not, in my opinion, be able to have it up and running within the next 10 years, so members here should not be too anxious about it. I don't even know why the analysts were "expecting" it (unless theyre expecting uncle Sam to assist?).

OK, I gotta log out.


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## Carlosa

kangaroo friend, saved me from my misery and tell me about that weapon, can you?



Black Flag said:


> OK I will try to get someone you trust to confirm this report about T-72 and Indian T-90s:
> 
> @Nihonjin1051 bro, do you have access to BMI (business monitor international) reports? (they should be available from your University's online database). If you do, can you please check out the "Vietnam defence & Security Report Q1 2015" and confirm to our dear @madokafc that the report does mention the 480 T-72 and Indian T-90s obtained by VietNam?.



Its a waste of time to ask madokafc, she doesn't understand how these things work in Vietnam. When I said recently that VN has T-72 and T-90 she said that i was having a wet dream and anyway, she doesn't have sources to confirm what Vietnam has or not.


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> kangaroo friend, saved me from my misery and tell me about that weapon, can you?
> 
> 
> 
> Its a waste of time to ask madokafc, she doesn't understand how these things work in Vietnam. When I said recently that VN has T-72 and T-90 she said that i was having a wet dream and anyway, she doesn't have sources to confirm what Vietnam has or not.



To be honest, that claim about T-90s from India is quite weird. I've previously read online a few rumors or Russian news site about the 500 or 480 T-72, even about the possibility of T-90s purchases. But this is the first time I've read that the T-90s are obtained from India. This info cannot be found on the internet, so I guess they got it from someone offline, like company officials or something.

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## Carlosa

Black Flag said:


> That's hard to believe. I don't think the Gepards even has enough space for a 16 cell VLS.



The comcom source said that the redut vls is used for the 9M96E missile; that missile is part of the S-300 / 400 system, but I'm not aware of a naval system using just that missile, it might be a new development. The 9M96E is a medium range missile (40 km), flying altitude is 20 km.

The location for the reduct vls in the Gepard is where the Palma is in the first batch of Gepards.



Black Flag said:


> To be honest, that claim about T-90s from India is quite weird. I've previously read online a few rumors or Russian news site about the 500 or 480 T-72, even about the possibility of T-90s purchases. But this is the first time I've read that the T-90s are obtained from India. This info cannot be found on the internet, so I guess they got it from someone offline, like company officials or something.



Makes sense, I see pretty solid hints about VN having the T-90; in comcom is already considered as a given.

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## kangaroo

it is indeed on page 33. 
@Carlosa: ofcourse i can reveal the pandora box. have you looked for info from my hint?
btw, any thing you want me to look into? i got access to most databases from uni library

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> The comcom source said that the redut vls is used for the 9M96E missile; that missile is part of the S-300 / 400 system, but I'm not aware of a naval system using just that missile, it might be a new development. The 9M96E is a medium range missile (40 km), flying altitude is 20 km.
> 
> The location for the reduct vls in the Gepard is where the Palma is in the first batch of Gepards.



Hmmm I still have my doubts about that. The Gepard model with VLS has a different bridge design that leaves alot of space between the bridge and the AK-176. The current 4 Viet Gepards leaves little space in that area for a VLS, especially a 16 cell VLS. It won't be long until we find out. 



kangaroo said:


> it is indeed on page 33.
> @Carlosa: ofcourse i can reveal the pandora box. have you looked for info from my hint?
> btw, any thing you want me to look into? i got access to most databases from uni library



No, don't spill the beans. It will be yearsss to get it running so better have some fun and leave it a mystery. 

BTW, do you have access to "Infiniti Research Group"?


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## kangaroo

Black Flag said:


> Hmmm I still have my doubts about that. The Gepard model with VLS has a different bridge design that leaves alot of space between the bridge and the AK-176. The current 4 Viet Gepards leaves little space in that area for a VLS, especially a 16 cell VLS. It won't be long until we find out.
> 
> 
> 
> No, don't spill the beans. It will be yearsss to get it running so better have some fun and leave it a mystery.
> 
> BTW, do you have access to "Infiniti Research Group"?



any particular articles? can you hive me title?

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## William Hung

kangaroo said:


> any particular articles? can you hive me title?



Awesome!!!!!!!!! I don't have access to their reports (which database are they on?) 

I may ask you for some info from their reports in the future. I'm still on summer break right now. 

BTW, infiniti Research also publish reports on the military industry. Maybe, when you have time, you can cross check on the tanks and ships we've discussed in this thread.


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## Viet

is the mystery weapon a new long range balistic missile, 1,000km?
I saw a picture recently on a viet military thread, comcom, I believe.


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## Viet

kangaroo said:


> it is indeed on page 33.
> @Carlosa: ofcourse i can reveal the pandora box. have you looked for info from my hint?
> btw, any thing you want me to look into? i got access to most databases from uni library


come on my friend, pls reveal the info. we can discuss about it. what is it, the mystery toy?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet The source at comcom replied to me that the reason for the $350 million for the Gepard is that it has a Reduct VLS system. The Reduct VLS can be used with the KH-35 and other missiles; its a 16 cell system. I'm trying to find out what missile gets used there.
> 
> There is a possibility that the Gepards carry the Kinzhai missiles for air defense (naval version of the Tor).


okie, I will try to find out what is going behind the public announcements. a lot of things make no sense. for instance, considering our vietnam relatively small GDP output, we can't afford such a defence spending.


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## kaku1

Black Flag said:


> OK I will try to get someone you trust to confirm this report about T-72 and Indian T-90s:
> 
> @Nihonjin1051 bro, do you have access to BMI (business monitor international) reports? (they should be available from your University's online database). If you do, can you please check out the "Vietnam defence & Security Report Q1 2015" and confirm to our dear @madokafc that the report does mention the 480 T-72 and Indian T-90s obtained by VietNam?
> 
> Thanks mate.


Possibly its not T-72, but an Advanced Tank-Ex. The T-72 chassis and Arjun turret with BEL and israeli electronics, that is the DRDO providing medium term solution for light tank to IA before FMBT.

Or a new Tank Ex is in development which take the base of T-90, but total Indian solution. No, license production from Russia.

But one thing, India is development going on for Rifled gun and not Smoothbore, and by 2025 IA standardize that. If you want to going to standardize Rifled gun instead of smoothbore. Then I think only India and UK making the R&D in this arena, you become total dependent on India for that like for CLGM.

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## kangaroo

Black Flag said:


> Awesome!!!!!!!!! I don't have access to their reports (which database are they on?)
> 
> I may ask you for some info from their reports in the future. I'm still on summer break right now.
> 
> BTW, infiniti Research also publish reports on the military industry. Maybe, when you have time, you can cross check on the tanks and ships we've discussed in this thread.


i did a brief search and it seems my database has access to those infiniti research reports. but you have to give me a specific title you want to look for as its a very broad database. i will look into the tanks and ships when i have some free time. 



Viet said:


> is the mystery weapon a new long range balistic missile, 1,000km?
> I saw a picture recently on a viet military thread, comcom, I believe.


it is not. this thing has been rumoured for a very long time to be in vietnam's possession, probably started in the early 90s. i give you a hint: Long Binh


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## Viet

kangaroo, I have no clue. come on, tell me what is it. blackflag is banned. instead of revealing the info about, he trolled the chinese.

I don´t understand you, either. this thread is about news & discussion about VN military. if you know something, you are encouraged to share with others. Why is the point of hiding it? you give a hint? you are not a quiz master, and we are not here on a quiz show. the bmi report is public.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> kangaroo, I have no clue. come on, tell me what is it. blackflag is banned. instead of revealing the info about, he trolled the chinese.
> 
> I don´t understand you, either. this thread is about news & discussion about VN military. if you know something, you are encouraged to share with others. Why is the point of hiding it? you give a hint? you are not a quiz master, and we are not here on a quiz show. the bmi report is public.



Now a Russian source is also talking about VN having 480 T-72 tanks.

Vietnam’s Russian Restocking: Subs, Ships, Sukhois, and More

*Jan 10/14: Tanks.* Vietnam is reportedly investigating the possibility of upgrading at least some of their existing fleet of about 480 T-72 main battle tanks, and buying T-90s to begin replacing their force of almost 1,000 elderly T-55s. Due diligence has reportedly been done with India’s T-90s, which also face the ravages of hot climates.

The problem is cost. T-72 upgrades can be sourced from a number of countries besides Russia, but top of the line new tanks are costly. If new armored personnel carriers also have to be bought for Vietnam’s armored formations, the entire project gets very expensive very quickly. On the other hand, defeats on land are very, very expensive when you have a large and aggressive neighbor on your border, and a long history of animosity. Tanks may not be the whole answer, but Vietnam will have to spend money to upgrade its land forces in some way.



kangaroo said:


> it is indeed on page 33.
> @Carlosa: ofcourse i can reveal the pandora box. have you looked for info from my hint?
> btw, any thing you want me to look into? i got access to most databases from uni library



Please reveal Pandora's box. Was not able to find anything that makes sense from your hint. Lets see what page 33 reveals.

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## Thao Nguyen

kangaroo said:


> i did a brief search and it seems my database has access to those infiniti research reports. but you have to give me a specific title you want to look for as its a very broad database. i will look into the tanks and ships when i have some free time.
> 
> 
> it is not. this thing has been rumoured for a very long time to be in vietnam's possession, probably started in the early 90s. i give you a hint: Long Binh


there are many rumor about Long Binh, mostly about nuke bombs (may be 3) (name " broken arrow- mũi tên gãy"), but nobody know they are exist, mostly news is we open all of them and get a lot of normal weapon
I don't think it exist

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## Water Car Engineer

@Carlosa @Black Flag


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/553763960088838145

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/553765909848784897


Hey guys, this is a reliable source. He's a journalist who cover a lot of Indian related stuff, and gave many exclusive info, images. He says it's OPVs, not aware of any OPVs made by them.

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## Carlosa

Water Car Engineer said:


> @Carlosa @Black Flag
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/553763960088838145
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/553765909848784897
> 
> 
> Hey guys, this is a reliable source. He's a journalist who cover a lot of Indian related stuff, and gave many exclusive info, images. He says it's OPVs, not aware of any OPVs made by them.



Thank you, we've been hearing that the ship is a 35-37 meter patrol boat. Quite small actually, not sure what the purpose of it would be.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
@Viet @Black Flag This chart was posted at the MP forum, it shows weapon purchases, the interesting new stuff here is the Aster 30 air defense missile (120 km range), but for what ship? And also 2 Holland class OPV's. The Holland OPV is supposed to be a low end ship with no missiles systems, but it has a nice integrated radar mast. The BMI reports mentions that VN is negotiating helo purchases with France, it should be the NH-90 for the Holland OPV's. That's a nice OPV at 3750 tons, 108 meters x 16m. The price is not bad at $250 million for 2 ships.

According to the chart, the Sigma ships price at 660 million for 2 ships includes 32 Exocet missiles and 48 MICA missiles, that would explain the high price of the ship. The exocet is 5 million and the Mica is 3 million each.

The Guarani wheeled 6x6 APC is nice. Made by Brasil under license from Iveco (Italy).





Holland class OPV

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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Thank you, we've been hearing that the ship is a 35-37 meter patrol boat. Quite small actually, not sure what the purpose of it would be.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
> @Viet @Black Flag This chart was posted at the MP forum, it shows weapon purchases, the interesting new stuff here is the Aster 30 air defense missile (120 km range), but for what ship? And also 2 Holland class OPV's. The Holland OPV is supposed to be a low end ship with no missiles systems, but it has a nice integrated radar mast. The BMI reports mentions that VN is negotiating helo purchases with France, it should be the NH-90 for the Holland OPV's. That's a nice OPV at 3750 tons, 108 meters x 16m. The price is not bad at $250 million for 2 ships.
> 
> According to the chart, the Sigma ships price at 660 million for 2 ships includes 32 Exocet missiles and 48 MICA missiles, that would explain the high price of the ship. The exocet is 5 million and the Mica is 3 million each.
> 
> The Guarani wheeled 6x6 APC is nice. Made by Brasil under license from Iveco (Italy).
> 
> View attachment 183072
> 
> Holland class OPV
> View attachment 183073
> 
> View attachment 183078
> 
> View attachment 183079


How do you think about the list below? May be the same to your list, but plus Type 26 Global Combat Ship from UK!
*Brazil
Recipient:* Viet Nam
360 VBTP Guarani APC (2014) VBTP-MR 6x6 version, delivery probably 2017-2020
*
Canada
Recipient: :* Viet Nam 6 DHC-6 Twin Otter Transport aircraft 2010 2012-2014 6 DHC-6-400 version; incl for MP
*
Czech Republic*
5 Su-22/Fitter-H/J/K FGA aircraft (2004) 2005 (5) Second-hand but modernized in Ukraine (for anti-ship operations) before delivery

4 Vera-E Air search system (2012) 2013-2014 (4) Vera-NG version
*
France*
2 EC-225/EC-725 Helicopter (2009) 2011 2 EC-225LP version; for SAR

3 CASA C-295 Transport aircraft (2013) 2014 1 C-295M transport version, delivery 2014-2015

3 CASA C-212 Transport aircraft (2010) 2011-2012 3 C-212 series 400 version

2 SAM-P/T SAM system (2014) Part of $700m deal, delivery probably 2018-2019, status uncertian

96 Aster-30 SAM (2014) Part of $700m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably Aster-30 Block 1

32 Exocet MM-40 Anti-ship missile (2014) Part of $660m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably Exocet Block III version for Sigma-9814. Option on 32 more

48 VL Mica SAM (2014) Part of $660m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably VL Mica-M SAM version for Sigma-9814. Option on 48 more

*Germany (FRG)*

*R:* Viet Nam
4 MTU-8000 Diesel engine (1996) 2001-2005 4 For 2 BPS-500 FAC from Russia; designation uncertain

6 AJAS-500 ECM system (2009) 2011-2012 6 Active VHF/UHF Jamming systems 100 - 500 MHz with 500 W

6 AJAS-1000 ECM system (2012) 2014 6 Active VHF/UHF Jamming system 100 - 1,000 MHz with 1,000 W

*Israel*

*R:* Viet Nam
(150) RAM APV (2006) 2006-2009 (149) For police; RAM-2000 version

1 EL/M-2088 AD-STAR Air search radar 2012 2013 (1) Probably $33 m deal, EL/M-2088ER version

5 EL/M-2088 AD-STAR Air search radar 2013 2014 (2) Probably $150 m deal, EL/M-2088ER version, delivery 2014-2015

2 Extra MLRS system 2010 2011-2012 (2)

2 Accular MLRS system 2011 2012-2013 (2)

2 Orbiter-2 UAV 2011 2012 (2)

*License:* Viet Nam
100,000 Galil ACE-31/32 Assault Riffle (2012) 2014 (2,000) $170m deal

24 Spyder SAM system (2014) Spyder-SR/Spyder-MR versions; Vietnamese designation TL-2, delivery 2016-2021, probably incl 21 produced in Viet Nam; selected but contract not yet signed

*Netherlands*

*License:* Viet Nam
2 SIGMA-9814 Frigate (2014) Part of $660m, SIGMA-9814 version; delivery 2017-2018, probably incl 1 produced in Viet Nam;

*Poland*

*R:* Viet Nam 2 M-28B Bryza-1R MP aircraft 2003 2005 2 For coast guard; delivered without MP system (still to be ordered); option on 8 more

*Romania*

*R:* Viet Nam
Iak-52 Trainer aircraft 2008 2009-2011 (10)

*License:* Viet Nam
24 Iak-52 Trainer aircraft 2014 Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; delivery 2016-2018. Option on 24 more

*Russia*

*License:* Viet Nam
(2) BPS-500/Type-1241A FAC 1996 2001-2005 (2) Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; Vietnamese designation Ho-A; status of second uncertain

(10) Project-1241/Tarantul FAC (2004) 2008-2014 4 Project-1241.8 (Tarantul-5) version; incl 8 produced in Viet Nam; delivery 2008-2016

800 Igla-S/SA-16 Gimlet Portable SAM 2005 2012-2014 (150) Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; Vietnamese designation TL-1; status of second uncertain

*R:* Viet Nam
400 Igla-1/SA-16 Gimlet Portable SAM (1996) 1999-2014 (400) SA-N-10 version for BPS-500 (Ho-A) and Project-10412 (Svetlyak) patrol craft and probably Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC

(30) Kh-35 Uran/SS-N-25 Anti-ship missile (1996) 2001-2005 (30) For BPS-500 (Ho-A) FAC

(75) 48N6/SA-10D Grumble SAM 2003 2005-2006 (75) Part of $200-380 m deal

2 S-300PMU-1/SA-20A SAM system 2003 2005 2 Part of $200-380 m deal

(400) Kh-35 Uran/SS-N-25 Anti-ship missile 2004 2008-2013 (133) For Project-11661 (Gepard) frigates and Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC

(200) 9M311/SA-19 Grison SAM (2006) 2011 (200) For Kashtan CIWS on 2 Gepard frigates

2 Gepard-3 Frigate 2006 2011 2 Part of $300 m deal; Vietnamese designation Dinh Tien Hoang

(2) K-300P Bastion-P Coast defence system 2007 2009-2011 (2) Part of $300 m deal

4 Project-10412/Svetlyak Patrol craft 2007 2011-2012 4

2 Project-10412/Svetlyak Patrol craft (2007) 2012 2

(40) Yakhont/SS-N-26 Anti-ship missile 2007 2009-2011 (40) Part of $300 m deal; for Bastion coastal defence system

(78) 3M-54 Klub/SS-N-27 Anti-ship MI/SSM (2009) 2013-2014 (26) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines

(80) 53-65 AS torpedo (2009) 2013 (15) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines

200 KAB-500/1500 Guided Bomb (2009) 2011-2012 (200)

80 Kh-31A1/AS-17 Anti-ship missile/ARM (2009) 2011-2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft; incl Kh-31P anti-radar version

6 Project-636E/Kilo Submarine 2009 2014 2 $1.8-2.1 b deal; Project-636.1M version; Vietnamese designation Ha Noi; delivery 2013-2016

(250) R-73/AA-11 Archer SRAAM (2009) 2010-2012 (250) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft

8 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2009 2010-2011 8 $400-500 m deal; Su-30MK2V version

80 RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder BVRAAM (2010) 2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft

80 TEST-71 AS/ASW torpedo (2009) 2013 (15) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines

12 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2010 2011-2012 12 $1 b deal; Su-30MK2V version

150 R-73/AA-11 Archer SRAAM (2013) 2014 (50) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, delivery 2014-2015

50 Kh-59ME/AS-18 Kazoo ASM (2012) 2014 (10) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, delivery 2014-2015

2 Gepard-3 Frigate 2012

2 Gepard-3 Frigate (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2018-2019

12 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2013 Part of $600 m deal; Su-30MK2 version; delivery 2014-2015

6 Yak-130 Tranning aircraft 2013 $100 m deal; Yak-130UBS version; delivery 2016-2017

80 RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder BVRAAM (2013) 2014 (20) Part of $600 m deal; Su-30MK2 version; delivery 2014-2015, for Su-30MK2 combat aircraft,

40 Kh-31A2/AS-17 Anti-ship missile/ARM (2013) 2011-2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft; incl Kh-31PD anti-radar version

40 Kh-58/AS-11 Kilter ASM (2013) 2014 (10) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, Kh-58UShKE version, delivery 2014-2015

100 KAB-500/1500 Guided Bomb (2013) 2014 (20) Part of $600 m deal, For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft

200 9M317/SA-17 SAM (2012) Part of $400m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016

6 9K40 Buk/SA-17 SAM system (2012) Part of $400m deal, Buk-M2E track version, delivery probably 2015-2016

75 48N6E2/SA-10E SAM (2012) Part of $250m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016, status uncertain

2 S-300PMU2/SA-20B SAM system (2012) Part of $250m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016, status uncertain

75 9M82M/SA-23 SAM (2014) Part of $450m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain

75 9M83M/SA-23 SAM (2014) Part of $450m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain

2 S-300VM/SA-23 SAM system (2014) Part of $450m deal, S-300V4 version, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain

300 57E6E/SA-22 SAM (2013) 2014 (72) Part of $300m deal, delivery probably 2014-2016, status uncertain

12 96K9 Pantsir-S1/SA-22 Mobile AD system (2012) 2014 (3) Part of $300m deal, delivery probably 2014-2016, status uncertain

2 Nebo-M Air search system (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2018

6 BM-30 Smerch MLRS system 2013 2014 (2) Part of $1000m deal, Delivery 2014-2015

186 T-72 MBT 2013 2014 (31) Part of $1000m deal, T-72B3 version, delivery probably 2014-2017

93 T-90 MBT 2013 2014 (31) Part of $1000m deal, T-90MS version, delivery probably 2014-2016

200 BTR-82A APC 2014 Part of $300m deal, Delivery probably 2016-2019

60 BMP-3 IFV 2014 Part of $300m deal, Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017

350 9M133/AT-14 Anti-tank missile 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2019

3 9K720 Iskander-E /SS-26 SSM 2012 $500m deal, delivery probably 2015-2019

1 K-300P Bastion-P Coast defence system 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017

40 Yakhont/SS-N-26 Anti-ship missile 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017

4 1L269 Krasuha-2 ECM system 2014 Jamming system, delivery probably 2015-2016

4 1RL257 Krasuha-4 ECM system 2014 Jamming system, delivery probably 2016-2017

*UK*
4 Global Combat Ship Type 26 Frigate (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2019-2022
*Ukraine*

*R:* Viet Nam
(20) DR-76 Gas turbine (2004) 2008-2014 12 For 10 Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC from Russia

(20) DR-77 Gas turbine (2004) 2008-2014 12 For 10 Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC from Russia

(8) Su-22/Fitter-H/J/K FGA aircraft (2004) 2005-2006 (8) Second-handrainian

4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2006) 2011 4 For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia

4 Kolchuga-M Air search system (2009) 2012-2013 (4) $54 m deal

10 36D6M1-2 Air search system (2010) 2012-2013 (10) May be 12 systems delivered

4 80K6M Air search system (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2018

4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2012) For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia, delivery probably 2015

4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2014) For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia, delivery probably 2017-2018

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> How do you think about the list below? May be the same to your list, but plus Type 26 Global Combat Ship from UK!
> *Brazil
> Recipient:* Viet Nam
> 360 VBTP Guarani APC (2014) VBTP-MR 6x6 version, delivery probably 2017-2020
> *
> Canada
> Recipient: :* Viet Nam 6 DHC-6 Twin Otter Transport aircraft 2010 2012-2014 6 DHC-6-400 version; incl for MP
> *
> Czech Republic*
> 5 Su-22/Fitter-H/J/K FGA aircraft (2004) 2005 (5) Second-hand but modernized in Ukraine (for anti-ship operations) before delivery
> 
> 4 Vera-E Air search system (2012) 2013-2014 (4) Vera-NG version
> *
> France*
> 2 EC-225/EC-725 Helicopter (2009) 2011 2 EC-225LP version; for SAR
> 
> 3 CASA C-295 Transport aircraft (2013) 2014 1 C-295M transport version, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 3 CASA C-212 Transport aircraft (2010) 2011-2012 3 C-212 series 400 version
> 
> 2 SAM-P/T SAM system (2014) Part of $700m deal, delivery probably 2018-2019, status uncertian
> 
> 96 Aster-30 SAM (2014) Part of $700m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably Aster-30 Block 1
> 
> 32 Exocet MM-40 Anti-ship missile (2014) Part of $660m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably Exocet Block III version for Sigma-9814. Option on 32 more
> 
> 48 VL Mica SAM (2014) Part of $660m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably VL Mica-M SAM version for Sigma-9814. Option on 48 more
> 
> *Germany (FRG)*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> 4 MTU-8000 Diesel engine (1996) 2001-2005 4 For 2 BPS-500 FAC from Russia; designation uncertain
> 
> 6 AJAS-500 ECM system (2009) 2011-2012 6 Active VHF/UHF Jamming systems 100 - 500 MHz with 500 W
> 
> 6 AJAS-1000 ECM system (2012) 2014 6 Active VHF/UHF Jamming system 100 - 1,000 MHz with 1,000 W
> 
> *Israel*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> (150) RAM APV (2006) 2006-2009 (149) For police; RAM-2000 version
> 
> 1 EL/M-2088 AD-STAR Air search radar 2012 2013 (1) Probably $33 m deal, EL/M-2088ER version
> 
> 5 EL/M-2088 AD-STAR Air search radar 2013 2014 (2) Probably $150 m deal, EL/M-2088ER version, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 2 Extra MLRS system 2010 2011-2012 (2)
> 
> 2 Accular MLRS system 2011 2012-2013 (2)
> 
> 2 Orbiter-2 UAV 2011 2012 (2)
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> 100,000 Galil ACE-31/32 Assault Riffle (2012) 2014 (2,000) $170m deal
> 
> 24 Spyder SAM system (2014) Spyder-SR/Spyder-MR versions; Vietnamese designation TL-2, delivery 2016-2021, probably incl 21 produced in Viet Nam; selected but contract not yet signed
> 
> *Netherlands*
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> 2 SIGMA-9814 Frigate (2014) Part of $660m, SIGMA-9814 version; delivery 2017-2018, probably incl 1 produced in Viet Nam;
> 
> *Poland*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam 2 M-28B Bryza-1R MP aircraft 2003 2005 2 For coast guard; delivered without MP system (still to be ordered); option on 8 more
> 
> *Romania*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> Iak-52 Trainer aircraft 2008 2009-2011 (10)
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> 24 Iak-52 Trainer aircraft 2014 Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; delivery 2016-2018. Option on 24 more
> 
> *Russia*
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> (2) BPS-500/Type-1241A FAC 1996 2001-2005 (2) Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; Vietnamese designation Ho-A; status of second uncertain
> 
> (10) Project-1241/Tarantul FAC (2004) 2008-2014 4 Project-1241.8 (Tarantul-5) version; incl 8 produced in Viet Nam; delivery 2008-2016
> 
> 800 Igla-S/SA-16 Gimlet Portable SAM 2005 2012-2014 (150) Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; Vietnamese designation TL-1; status of second uncertain
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> 400 Igla-1/SA-16 Gimlet Portable SAM (1996) 1999-2014 (400) SA-N-10 version for BPS-500 (Ho-A) and Project-10412 (Svetlyak) patrol craft and probably Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC
> 
> (30) Kh-35 Uran/SS-N-25 Anti-ship missile (1996) 2001-2005 (30) For BPS-500 (Ho-A) FAC
> 
> (75) 48N6/SA-10D Grumble SAM 2003 2005-2006 (75) Part of $200-380 m deal
> 
> 2 S-300PMU-1/SA-20A SAM system 2003 2005 2 Part of $200-380 m deal
> 
> (400) Kh-35 Uran/SS-N-25 Anti-ship missile 2004 2008-2013 (133) For Project-11661 (Gepard) frigates and Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC
> 
> (200) 9M311/SA-19 Grison SAM (2006) 2011 (200) For Kashtan CIWS on 2 Gepard frigates
> 
> 2 Gepard-3 Frigate 2006 2011 2 Part of $300 m deal; Vietnamese designation Dinh Tien Hoang
> 
> (2) K-300P Bastion-P Coast defence system 2007 2009-2011 (2) Part of $300 m deal
> 
> 4 Project-10412/Svetlyak Patrol craft 2007 2011-2012 4
> 
> 2 Project-10412/Svetlyak Patrol craft (2007) 2012 2
> 
> (40) Yakhont/SS-N-26 Anti-ship missile 2007 2009-2011 (40) Part of $300 m deal; for Bastion coastal defence system
> 
> (78) 3M-54 Klub/SS-N-27 Anti-ship MI/SSM (2009) 2013-2014 (26) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines
> 
> (80) 53-65 AS torpedo (2009) 2013 (15) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines
> 
> 200 KAB-500/1500 Guided Bomb (2009) 2011-2012 (200)
> 
> 80 Kh-31A1/AS-17 Anti-ship missile/ARM (2009) 2011-2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft; incl Kh-31P anti-radar version
> 
> 6 Project-636E/Kilo Submarine 2009 2014 2 $1.8-2.1 b deal; Project-636.1M version; Vietnamese designation Ha Noi; delivery 2013-2016
> 
> (250) R-73/AA-11 Archer SRAAM (2009) 2010-2012 (250) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft
> 
> 8 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2009 2010-2011 8 $400-500 m deal; Su-30MK2V version
> 
> 80 RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder BVRAAM (2010) 2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft
> 
> 80 TEST-71 AS/ASW torpedo (2009) 2013 (15) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines
> 
> 12 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2010 2011-2012 12 $1 b deal; Su-30MK2V version
> 
> 150 R-73/AA-11 Archer SRAAM (2013) 2014 (50) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 50 Kh-59ME/AS-18 Kazoo ASM (2012) 2014 (10) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 2 Gepard-3 Frigate 2012
> 
> 2 Gepard-3 Frigate (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2018-2019
> 
> 12 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2013 Part of $600 m deal; Su-30MK2 version; delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 6 Yak-130 Tranning aircraft 2013 $100 m deal; Yak-130UBS version; delivery 2016-2017
> 
> 80 RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder BVRAAM (2013) 2014 (20) Part of $600 m deal; Su-30MK2 version; delivery 2014-2015, for Su-30MK2 combat aircraft,
> 
> 40 Kh-31A2/AS-17 Anti-ship missile/ARM (2013) 2011-2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft; incl Kh-31PD anti-radar version
> 
> 40 Kh-58/AS-11 Kilter ASM (2013) 2014 (10) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, Kh-58UShKE version, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 100 KAB-500/1500 Guided Bomb (2013) 2014 (20) Part of $600 m deal, For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft
> 
> 200 9M317/SA-17 SAM (2012) Part of $400m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016
> 
> 6 9K40 Buk/SA-17 SAM system (2012) Part of $400m deal, Buk-M2E track version, delivery probably 2015-2016
> 
> 75 48N6E2/SA-10E SAM (2012) Part of $250m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 2 S-300PMU2/SA-20B SAM system (2012) Part of $250m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 75 9M82M/SA-23 SAM (2014) Part of $450m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain
> 
> 75 9M83M/SA-23 SAM (2014) Part of $450m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain
> 
> 2 S-300VM/SA-23 SAM system (2014) Part of $450m deal, S-300V4 version, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain
> 
> 300 57E6E/SA-22 SAM (2013) 2014 (72) Part of $300m deal, delivery probably 2014-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 12 96K9 Pantsir-S1/SA-22 Mobile AD system (2012) 2014 (3) Part of $300m deal, delivery probably 2014-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 2 Nebo-M Air search system (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2018
> 
> 6 BM-30 Smerch MLRS system 2013 2014 (2) Part of $1000m deal, Delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 186 T-72 MBT 2013 2014 (31) Part of $1000m deal, T-72B3 version, delivery probably 2014-2017
> 
> 93 T-90 MBT 2013 2014 (31) Part of $1000m deal, T-90MS version, delivery probably 2014-2016
> 
> 200 BTR-82A APC 2014 Part of $300m deal, Delivery probably 2016-2019
> 
> 60 BMP-3 IFV 2014 Part of $300m deal, Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> 350 9M133/AT-14 Anti-tank missile 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2019
> 
> 3 9K720 Iskander-E /SS-26 SSM 2012 $500m deal, delivery probably 2015-2019
> 
> 1 K-300P Bastion-P Coast defence system 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> 40 Yakhont/SS-N-26 Anti-ship missile 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> 4 1L269 Krasuha-2 ECM system 2014 Jamming system, delivery probably 2015-2016
> 
> 4 1RL257 Krasuha-4 ECM system 2014 Jamming system, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> *UK*
> 4 Global Combat Ship Type 26 Frigate (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2019-2022
> *Ukraine*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> (20) DR-76 Gas turbine (2004) 2008-2014 12 For 10 Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC from Russia
> 
> (20) DR-77 Gas turbine (2004) 2008-2014 12 For 10 Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC from Russia
> 
> (8) Su-22/Fitter-H/J/K FGA aircraft (2004) 2005-2006 (8) Second-handrainian
> 
> 4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2006) 2011 4 For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia
> 
> 4 Kolchuga-M Air search system (2009) 2012-2013 (4) $54 m deal
> 
> 10 36D6M1-2 Air search system (2010) 2012-2013 (10) May be 12 systems delivered
> 
> 4 80K6M Air search system (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2018
> 
> 4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2012) For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia, delivery probably 2015
> 
> 4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2014) For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia, delivery probably 2017-2018



Oh very good. That list is about the same, but it has the missing ship for the Aster 30 missiles (and a few other things), I was wondering what ship those missiles were for.

By the way, where does this list / info comes from?


----------



## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Oh very good. That list is about the same, but it has the missing ship for the Aster 30 missiles (and a few other things), I was wondering what ship those missiles were for.
> 
> By the way, where does this list / info comes from?


Aster-30 missiles for SAM-P/T SAM systems (land base) not for any ship.

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> Aster-30 missiles for SAM-P/T SAM systems (land base) not for any ship.



Oh that's very interesting, VN is really diversifying suppliers, Spyder MR from Israel also. Very nice. In my opinion the Aster is better than the BukM2. I've been hoping that VN would buy the Barak 8 from Israel, but the Aster 30 will be great.

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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Oh that's very interesting, VN is really diversifying suppliers, Spyder MR from Israel also. Very nice. In my opinion the Aster is better than the BukM2. I've been hoping that VN would buy the Barak 8 from Israel, but the Aster 30 will be great.


Barak-8 would be in range of production in Vietnam (from IAI, Vietnamese designation TL-3 or TL-4), but I think it's for 2020-2024 procurement plan.

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> Barak-8 would be in range of production in Vietnam (from IAI, Vietnamese designation TL-3 or TL-4), but I think it's for 2020-2024 procurement plan.



Wow, Barak 8 to be license produced in VN!!!
Do you know if it will be the naval or land version?

I also see that the Spyder SAM will be license produced in VN.

Quite a bit of missile production in VN coming up. Yakhon will also start production in VN in 2017 for what I hear.

Do you have any news of when fighter jets will be ordered? I've been hearing that VN wants the SU-34 and some better version of SU-30 or SU-35.


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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Wow, Barak 8 to be license produced in VN!!!
> Do you know if it will be the naval or land version?
> 
> I also see that the Spyder SAM will be license produced in VN.
> 
> Quite a bit of missile production in VN coming up. Yakhon will also start production in VN in 2017 for what I hear.
> 
> Do you have any news of when fighter jets will be ordered? I've been hearing that VN wants the SU-34 and some better version of SU-30 or SU-35.


This period (2013-2016) Vietnam focuses on navy and SAM, next order for fighter jets may sign by 2016 or 2017, it would be Su-30M2 for KNAAPO (Su-30MK2V manufacturer also), then Su-35SM.

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> This period (2013-2016) Vietnam focuses on navy and SAM, next order for fighter jets may sign by 2016 or 2017, it would be Su-30M2 for KNAAPO (Su-30MK2V manufacturer also), then Su-35SM.



Oh thank you, that sounds really good.

So I guess no plans for the SU-34.

I understand that VN is considering the Amur 950 / 1650 subs, do you know during what period they may order those?


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Wow,* Barak 8 to be license produced in VN*!!!
> Do you know if it will be the naval or land version?
> 
> I also see that the Spyder SAM will be license produced in VN.
> 
> Quite a bit of missile production in VN coming up. Yakhon will also start production in VN in 2017 for what I hear.
> 
> Do you have any news of when fighter jets will be ordered? I've been hearing that VN wants the SU-34 and some better version of SU-30 or SU-35.



What?? BTW, BDL production line in already filled because of domestic orders, now IA and IAF also gonna buy MR-SAM in large number. Because the dual pulse motor inside the Barak 8 is BDL made, thats was the reason in delay of testing. The Israeli contribution is in seekers.

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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Oh thank you, that sounds really good.
> 
> So I guess no plans for the SU-34.
> 
> I understand that VN is considering the Amur 950 / 1650 subs, do you know during what period they may order those?


I think 6 Kilo-636.1s enough for Vietnam until 2025. Next order will be western sub as Type-214 or Scorpene

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> I think 6 Kilo-636.1s enough for Vietnam until 2025. Next order will be western sub as Type-214 or Scorpene



Oh thank you.

I was noticing that your list does not include the 2 Holland class OPV's from Damien. Did you hear anything about those?


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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Oh thank you.
> 
> I was noticing that your list does not include the 2 Holland class OPV's from Damien. Did you hear anything about those?


Holland OPVs are for Marine Police not for Vietnam people's Navy

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> What?? BTW, BDL production line in already filled because of domestic orders, now IA and IAF also gonna buy MR-SAM in large number. Because the dual pulse motor inside the Barak 8 is BDL made, thats was the reason in delay of testing. The Israeli contribution is in seekers.



Well, it seems like if Vietnam does get into Barak 8 production, it will be in a number of years anyway, so the production line should be mature by that time and the components will probably be available.

There is a lot to digest from the news today. This is very interesting.

And also considering the possible cooperation with the T-90, VN and India seem to be doing a lot behind the lines.



Triumfvn said:


> Holland OPVs are for Marine Police not for Vietnam people's Navy



Thank you for sharing all this info mate. This is really good.

That Holland OPV looks really nice by the way.

I understand that Vietnam has an indigenous ship under development, but we don't have any info about it other than the fact that is larger than the Molniya ships. Do you have any info on that ship and when it might go into production?


----------



## Viet

Triumfvn said:


> How do you think about the list below? May be the same to your list, but plus Type 26 Global Combat Ship from UK!
> *Brazil
> Recipient:* Viet Nam
> 360 VBTP Guarani APC (2014) VBTP-MR 6x6 version, delivery probably 2017-2020
> *
> Canada
> Recipient: :* Viet Nam 6 DHC-6 Twin Otter Transport aircraft 2010 2012-2014 6 DHC-6-400 version; incl for MP
> *
> Czech Republic*
> 5 Su-22/Fitter-H/J/K FGA aircraft (2004) 2005 (5) Second-hand but modernized in Ukraine (for anti-ship operations) before delivery
> 
> 4 Vera-E Air search system (2012) 2013-2014 (4) Vera-NG version
> *
> France*
> 2 EC-225/EC-725 Helicopter (2009) 2011 2 EC-225LP version; for SAR
> 
> 3 CASA C-295 Transport aircraft (2013) 2014 1 C-295M transport version, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 3 CASA C-212 Transport aircraft (2010) 2011-2012 3 C-212 series 400 version
> 
> 2 SAM-P/T SAM system (2014) Part of $700m deal, delivery probably 2018-2019, status uncertian
> 
> 96 Aster-30 SAM (2014) Part of $700m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably Aster-30 Block 1
> 
> 32 Exocet MM-40 Anti-ship missile (2014) Part of $660m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably Exocet Block III version for Sigma-9814. Option on 32 more
> 
> 48 VL Mica SAM (2014) Part of $660m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertian, probably VL Mica-M SAM version for Sigma-9814. Option on 48 more
> 
> *Germany (FRG)*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> 4 MTU-8000 Diesel engine (1996) 2001-2005 4 For 2 BPS-500 FAC from Russia; designation uncertain
> 
> 6 AJAS-500 ECM system (2009) 2011-2012 6 Active VHF/UHF Jamming systems 100 - 500 MHz with 500 W
> 
> 6 AJAS-1000 ECM system (2012) 2014 6 Active VHF/UHF Jamming system 100 - 1,000 MHz with 1,000 W
> 
> *Israel*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> (150) RAM APV (2006) 2006-2009 (149) For police; RAM-2000 version
> 
> 1 EL/M-2088 AD-STAR Air search radar 2012 2013 (1) Probably $33 m deal, EL/M-2088ER version
> 
> 5 EL/M-2088 AD-STAR Air search radar 2013 2014 (2) Probably $150 m deal, EL/M-2088ER version, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 2 Extra MLRS system 2010 2011-2012 (2)
> 
> 2 Accular MLRS system 2011 2012-2013 (2)
> 
> 2 Orbiter-2 UAV 2011 2012 (2)
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> 100,000 Galil ACE-31/32 Assault Riffle (2012) 2014 (2,000) $170m deal
> 
> 24 Spyder SAM system (2014) Spyder-SR/Spyder-MR versions; Vietnamese designation TL-2, delivery 2016-2021, probably incl 21 produced in Viet Nam; selected but contract not yet signed
> 
> *Netherlands*
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> 2 SIGMA-9814 Frigate (2014) Part of $660m, SIGMA-9814 version; delivery 2017-2018, probably incl 1 produced in Viet Nam;
> 
> *Poland*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam 2 M-28B Bryza-1R MP aircraft 2003 2005 2 For coast guard; delivered without MP system (still to be ordered); option on 8 more
> 
> *Romania*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> Iak-52 Trainer aircraft 2008 2009-2011 (10)
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> 24 Iak-52 Trainer aircraft 2014 Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; delivery 2016-2018. Option on 24 more
> 
> *Russia*
> 
> *License:* Viet Nam
> (2) BPS-500/Type-1241A FAC 1996 2001-2005 (2) Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; Vietnamese designation Ho-A; status of second uncertain
> 
> (10) Project-1241/Tarantul FAC (2004) 2008-2014 4 Project-1241.8 (Tarantul-5) version; incl 8 produced in Viet Nam; delivery 2008-2016
> 
> 800 Igla-S/SA-16 Gimlet Portable SAM 2005 2012-2014 (150) Assembled from kits in Viet Nam; Vietnamese designation TL-1; status of second uncertain
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> 400 Igla-1/SA-16 Gimlet Portable SAM (1996) 1999-2014 (400) SA-N-10 version for BPS-500 (Ho-A) and Project-10412 (Svetlyak) patrol craft and probably Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC
> 
> (30) Kh-35 Uran/SS-N-25 Anti-ship missile (1996) 2001-2005 (30) For BPS-500 (Ho-A) FAC
> 
> (75) 48N6/SA-10D Grumble SAM 2003 2005-2006 (75) Part of $200-380 m deal
> 
> 2 S-300PMU-1/SA-20A SAM system 2003 2005 2 Part of $200-380 m deal
> 
> (400) Kh-35 Uran/SS-N-25 Anti-ship missile 2004 2008-2013 (133) For Project-11661 (Gepard) frigates and Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC
> 
> (200) 9M311/SA-19 Grison SAM (2006) 2011 (200) For Kashtan CIWS on 2 Gepard frigates
> 
> 2 Gepard-3 Frigate 2006 2011 2 Part of $300 m deal; Vietnamese designation Dinh Tien Hoang
> 
> (2) K-300P Bastion-P Coast defence system 2007 2009-2011 (2) Part of $300 m deal
> 
> 4 Project-10412/Svetlyak Patrol craft 2007 2011-2012 4
> 
> 2 Project-10412/Svetlyak Patrol craft (2007) 2012 2
> 
> (40) Yakhont/SS-N-26 Anti-ship missile 2007 2009-2011 (40) Part of $300 m deal; for Bastion coastal defence system
> 
> (78) 3M-54 Klub/SS-N-27 Anti-ship MI/SSM (2009) 2013-2014 (26) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines
> 
> (80) 53-65 AS torpedo (2009) 2013 (15) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines
> 
> 200 KAB-500/1500 Guided Bomb (2009) 2011-2012 (200)
> 
> 80 Kh-31A1/AS-17 Anti-ship missile/ARM (2009) 2011-2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft; incl Kh-31P anti-radar version
> 
> 6 Project-636E/Kilo Submarine 2009 2014 2 $1.8-2.1 b deal; Project-636.1M version; Vietnamese designation Ha Noi; delivery 2013-2016
> 
> (250) R-73/AA-11 Archer SRAAM (2009) 2010-2012 (250) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft
> 
> 8 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2009 2010-2011 8 $400-500 m deal; Su-30MK2V version
> 
> 80 RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder BVRAAM (2010) 2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft
> 
> 80 TEST-71 AS/ASW torpedo (2009) 2013 (15) For Project-636 (Kilo) submarines
> 
> 12 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2010 2011-2012 12 $1 b deal; Su-30MK2V version
> 
> 150 R-73/AA-11 Archer SRAAM (2013) 2014 (50) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 50 Kh-59ME/AS-18 Kazoo ASM (2012) 2014 (10) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 2 Gepard-3 Frigate 2012
> 
> 2 Gepard-3 Frigate (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2018-2019
> 
> 12 Su-30MK/Flanker FGA aircraft 2013 Part of $600 m deal; Su-30MK2 version; delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 6 Yak-130 Tranning aircraft 2013 $100 m deal; Yak-130UBS version; delivery 2016-2017
> 
> 80 RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder BVRAAM (2013) 2014 (20) Part of $600 m deal; Su-30MK2 version; delivery 2014-2015, for Su-30MK2 combat aircraft,
> 
> 40 Kh-31A2/AS-17 Anti-ship missile/ARM (2013) 2011-2012 (80) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft; incl Kh-31PD anti-radar version
> 
> 40 Kh-58/AS-11 Kilter ASM (2013) 2014 (10) For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft, Kh-58UShKE version, delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 100 KAB-500/1500 Guided Bomb (2013) 2014 (20) Part of $600 m deal, For Su-30MK2 combat aircraft
> 
> 200 9M317/SA-17 SAM (2012) Part of $400m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016
> 
> 6 9K40 Buk/SA-17 SAM system (2012) Part of $400m deal, Buk-M2E track version, delivery probably 2015-2016
> 
> 75 48N6E2/SA-10E SAM (2012) Part of $250m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 2 S-300PMU2/SA-20B SAM system (2012) Part of $250m deal, delivery probably 2015-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 75 9M82M/SA-23 SAM (2014) Part of $450m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain
> 
> 75 9M83M/SA-23 SAM (2014) Part of $450m deal, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain
> 
> 2 S-300VM/SA-23 SAM system (2014) Part of $450m deal, S-300V4 version, delivery probably 2017-2018, status uncertain
> 
> 300 57E6E/SA-22 SAM (2013) 2014 (72) Part of $300m deal, delivery probably 2014-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 12 96K9 Pantsir-S1/SA-22 Mobile AD system (2012) 2014 (3) Part of $300m deal, delivery probably 2014-2016, status uncertain
> 
> 2 Nebo-M Air search system (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2018
> 
> 6 BM-30 Smerch MLRS system 2013 2014 (2) Part of $1000m deal, Delivery 2014-2015
> 
> 186 T-72 MBT 2013 2014 (31) Part of $1000m deal, T-72B3 version, delivery probably 2014-2017
> 
> 93 T-90 MBT 2013 2014 (31) Part of $1000m deal, T-90MS version, delivery probably 2014-2016
> 
> 200 BTR-82A APC 2014 Part of $300m deal, Delivery probably 2016-2019
> 
> 60 BMP-3 IFV 2014 Part of $300m deal, Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> 350 9M133/AT-14 Anti-tank missile 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2019
> 
> 3 9K720 Iskander-E /SS-26 SSM 2012 $500m deal, delivery probably 2015-2019
> 
> 1 K-300P Bastion-P Coast defence system 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> 40 Yakhont/SS-N-26 Anti-ship missile 2014 Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> 4 1L269 Krasuha-2 ECM system 2014 Jamming system, delivery probably 2015-2016
> 
> 4 1RL257 Krasuha-4 ECM system 2014 Jamming system, delivery probably 2016-2017
> 
> *UK*
> 4 Global Combat Ship Type 26 Frigate (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2019-2022
> *Ukraine*
> 
> *R:* Viet Nam
> (20) DR-76 Gas turbine (2004) 2008-2014 12 For 10 Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC from Russia
> 
> (20) DR-77 Gas turbine (2004) 2008-2014 12 For 10 Project-1241 (Tarantul) FAC from Russia
> 
> (8) Su-22/Fitter-H/J/K FGA aircraft (2004) 2005-2006 (8) Second-handrainian
> 
> 4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2006) 2011 4 For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia
> 
> 4 Kolchuga-M Air search system (2009) 2012-2013 (4) $54 m deal
> 
> 10 36D6M1-2 Air search system (2010) 2012-2013 (10) May be 12 systems delivered
> 
> 4 80K6M Air search system (2014) Selected but contract not yet signed by the end 2014, delivery probably 2017-2018
> 
> 4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2012) For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia, delivery probably 2015
> 
> 4 DT-59 Gas turbine (2014) For 2 Gepard frigates from Russia, delivery probably 2017-2018


186 T-72 (B3 series) and 93 T-90 (MS series) for $1 billion each? that is very expensive, especially the latter. Hopefully the price includes maintenance facility and spare parts. I post the specs from the two tank versions here for possible discussions.

re-edit: I just realise the T-72/T-90 tanks for VN cost all together $1b.

*T-90MS Main Battle Tank, Russia*






T-90MS is a modernised version of the T-90 main battle tank (MBT) built by Uralvagonzavod. The modernised tank is being proposed for the Russian Army and potential export customers.

The tank was first demonstrated during the Russian Expo Arms in Nizhny Tagil in September 2011. The capabilities of the T-90MS were also exhibited at DEFEXPO 2012 in New Delhi, India, as well as IDEX 2013 in Abu-Dhabi, UAE.

*Features of the T-90MS main battle tank*
The extensively upgraded T-90MS tank will deliver enhanced combat capabilities in present warfare scenarios. The tank offers superior fire power and protection than that of its predecessor.

The T-90MS features improved automotive components, suspension, protection, firepower and mobility. It can accommodate three crew members including a driver, commander and a gunner. The combat weight of the tank is 48,000kg.

The tank can incorporate an optional air conditioner cooling unit and an auxiliary diesel generator producing a minimum electric power of 7kW.

*Armament of the T-90MS MBT*
The main armament of the T-90MS tank is a 125mm 2A46M-5 high accuracy gun. The cannon can fire different types of ammunition. The tank has the capacity to carry up to 40 rounds of 125mm ammunition.

*T-90S Main Battle Tank, Russia *
The T-90S is the latest development in the T-series of Russian tanks and represents an increase in firepower, mobility and protection.

The MBT is also armed with a 7.62mm 6P7K anti-aircraft machine gun on a remotely controlled weapon station mounted on top of the turret to destroy stationary and moving targets. It can carry 2,000 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition and 800 cartridges. Six smoke-grenade dischargers are also fitted on each side of the turret.

*Self-protection*
The tank features modular explosive reactive armour (ERA) panels installed on rear and side projections. The ERA panels protect the tank from small weapons and shell splinters. The forward hull and turret can be equipped with RELIKT ERA for protection against anti-tank missiles.

The T-90MS includes a collective PKUZ-1A NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) protection system, and is also fitted with opto-electronic screening system, electromagnetic protection system and quick-action fighting equipment.

The rear hull and turret are fitted with slat armour to protect the engine section and ammunition compartment from grenade and rocket attacks. The anti-fragmentation panels made of aramid fabric protect the crew from the secondary flux of tank fragments.

*Observation and fire control of the Russian main battle tank*
The combined panoramic commander's sight is equipped with television and thermal channels and a laser range finder. The sighting channel can identify the target at a maximum range of 5,000m. The minimum range for target identification through the thermal channel is 3,500m. The laser range finder can identify the target at a maximum range of 7,500m.

The Kalina fire control system of the T-90MS incorporates the multichannel main gunner's sight consisting of sighting and thermal channels, laser range finder and in-built laser control channel. The fire control system also incorporates parallel sight with dependent sighting channel. The tank can identify targets at a minimum range of 2,000m during day and 1,000m at dusk.

The T-90MS also consists of a digital ballistic computer featuring weather and topographical transmitting units and a barrel straightness monitor. The automatic target tracking is autonomously secured from the gunner's and commander's stations by implementing gunner-hunter mode.

"The tank features modular explosive reactive armour (ERA) panels installed on rear and side projections."
The tank also features an enhanced dual-axis weapon stabiliser with electro-mechanical power traverse and electro-hydraulic power elevation.

*Engine and mobility of the modernised MBT*
The T-90MS MBT is powered by a 12-cylinder V-92S2F diesel engine producing a maximum power output of 1,130hp. The engine is coupled to an automatic transmission with seven forward gears and one reverse gear.

The tank features torsion bar suspension integrating six hydraulic vane-type shock absorbers, as well as six road wheel and three track support rollers per side. It can accomplish a speed of 60km/h and a range of 550km. It can ford at a depth of 1.8m, while its maximum fording depth with USCE is 5m.



*T-72B3 Russia*
* Main battle tank*




The T-72B3 is a refurbished and upgraded version of the ageing T-72B


The T-72B3 is a recent Russian upgrade of the ageing T-72B tanks. It can be seen as a low-cost alternative to the T-72B2 Rogatka upgrade to keep older T-72B tanks operational. Refurbished and upgraded T-72B3 tanks are fitted with new engine, new gunners sight, new fire control system and have some other improvements. Now this MBT has a hunter-killer capability. First upgraded T-72B3 tanks were delivered in 2013. Russia Army upgraded at least 150, or possibly more, older tanks to this standard.

In 2014 the T-72B3 tanks saw combat during a military conflict in Ukraine. At least a couple of these tanks were captured by Ukrainian armed forces and pressed into service against the Russians.

Protection of the upgraded tank was slightly improved. The T-72B3 is fitted with built-in Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armor. The same armor is used by the  T-80U,  T-90 and some other main battle tanks. This armor can effectively defeat most older APFSDS rounds.

The tank is armed with the same 125-mm smoothbore-gun as its predecessor. However autoloader of the T-72B3 has some modifications and can use newly-developed munitions. This tank can launch 9M119 Svir or 9M119M Refleks anti-tank guided missiles in the same manner as ordinary projectiles. NATO reporting name for both missiles is AT-11 Sniper. A total of 45 rounds are carried. 22 rounds are ready to use, while remaining are stored inside the hull.

There is a coaxial 7.62-mm machine gun and roof-mounted 12.7-mm machine gun. The 12.7-mm MG is controlled manually by the vehicle commander.

The tank has new fire control system and new ballistic computer. Gunner uses new Sosna-U sight with thermal imager. This sight has day/night and all weather combat capability. The T-72B3 has a hunter-killer capability even though it lacks commander's panoramic sight. Vehicle commander can select a target and lay the gun and let the gunner complete all the aiming and firing process. During that time commander looks for the next target. The tank is also fitted with new digital radio system.

Some T-72B3 demonstrator tanks were fitted with commander's panoramic sight. This sight might appear on later models.

This tank has a crew of three, including commander, gunner and driver.

Initially refurbished and upgraded T-72B3 tanks were powered by original V-84-1 diesel engine, developing 840 hp. However later production tanks were fitted with the new V-92S2F engine, developing 1 130 hp. This tank is also fitted with new tracks.



Triumfvn said:


> I think 6 Kilo-636.1s enough for Vietnam until 2025. Next order will be western sub as Type-214 or Scorpene


the navy wants light attack submarine. do you know the strategic calculus for the decision?



Carlosa said:


> Thank you, we've been hearing that the ship is a 35-37 meter patrol boat. Quite small actually, not sure what the purpose of it would be.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
> @Viet @Black Flag This chart was posted at the MP forum, it shows weapon purchases, the interesting new stuff here is the Aster 30 air defense missile (120 km range), but for what ship? And also 2 Holland class OPV's. The Holland OPV is supposed to be a low end ship with no missiles systems, but it has a nice integrated radar mast. The BMI reports mentions that VN is negotiating helo purchases with France, it should be the NH-90 for the Holland OPV's. That's a nice OPV at 3750 tons, 108 meters x 16m. The price is not bad at $250 million for 2 ships.
> 
> According to the chart, the Sigma ships price at 660 million for 2 ships includes 32 Exocet missiles and 48 MICA missiles, that would explain the high price of the ship. The exocet is 5 million and the Mica is 3 million each.
> 
> The Guarani wheeled 6x6 APC is nice. Made by Brasil under license from Iveco (Italy).
> 
> View attachment 183072
> 
> Holland class OPV
> View attachment 183073
> 
> View attachment 183078
> 
> View attachment 183079


I like the OPV ship. maybe we can reverse engineer it to a frigate.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> 186 T-72 (B3 series) and 93 T-90 (MS series) for $1 billion each? that is very expensive, especially the latter. Hopefully the price includes maintenance facility and spare parts. I post the specs from the two tank versions here for possible discussions.
> 
> re-edit: I just realise the T-72/T-90 tanks for VN cost all together $1b.
> 
> *T-90MS Main Battle Tank, Russia*
> View attachment 183316
> 
> 
> T-90MS is a modernised version of the T-90 main battle tank (MBT) built by Uralvagonzavod. The modernised tank is being proposed for the Russian Army and potential export customers.
> 
> The tank was first demonstrated during the Russian Expo Arms in Nizhny Tagil in September 2011. The capabilities of the T-90MS were also exhibited at DEFEXPO 2012 in New Delhi, India, as well as IDEX 2013 in Abu-Dhabi, UAE.
> 
> *Features of the T-90MS main battle tank*
> The extensively upgraded T-90MS tank will deliver enhanced combat capabilities in present warfare scenarios. The tank offers superior fire power and protection than that of its predecessor.
> 
> The T-90MS features improved automotive components, suspension, protection, firepower and mobility. It can accommodate three crew members including a driver, commander and a gunner. The combat weight of the tank is 48,000kg.
> 
> The tank can incorporate an optional air conditioner cooling unit and an auxiliary diesel generator producing a minimum electric power of 7kW.
> 
> *Armament of the T-90MS MBT*
> The main armament of the T-90MS tank is a 125mm 2A46M-5 high accuracy gun. The cannon can fire different types of ammunition. The tank has the capacity to carry up to 40 rounds of 125mm ammunition.
> 
> *T-90S Main Battle Tank, Russia *
> The T-90S is the latest development in the T-series of Russian tanks and represents an increase in firepower, mobility and protection.
> 
> The MBT is also armed with a 7.62mm 6P7K anti-aircraft machine gun on a remotely controlled weapon station mounted on top of the turret to destroy stationary and moving targets. It can carry 2,000 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition and 800 cartridges. Six smoke-grenade dischargers are also fitted on each side of the turret.
> 
> *Self-protection*
> The tank features modular explosive reactive armour (ERA) panels installed on rear and side projections. The ERA panels protect the tank from small weapons and shell splinters. The forward hull and turret can be equipped with RELIKT ERA for protection against anti-tank missiles.
> 
> The T-90MS includes a collective PKUZ-1A NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) protection system, and is also fitted with opto-electronic screening system, electromagnetic protection system and quick-action fighting equipment.
> 
> The rear hull and turret are fitted with slat armour to protect the engine section and ammunition compartment from grenade and rocket attacks. The anti-fragmentation panels made of aramid fabric protect the crew from the secondary flux of tank fragments.
> 
> *Observation and fire control of the Russian main battle tank*
> The combined panoramic commander's sight is equipped with television and thermal channels and a laser range finder. The sighting channel can identify the target at a maximum range of 5,000m. The minimum range for target identification through the thermal channel is 3,500m. The laser range finder can identify the target at a maximum range of 7,500m.
> 
> The Kalina fire control system of the T-90MS incorporates the multichannel main gunner's sight consisting of sighting and thermal channels, laser range finder and in-built laser control channel. The fire control system also incorporates parallel sight with dependent sighting channel. The tank can identify targets at a minimum range of 2,000m during day and 1,000m at dusk.
> 
> The T-90MS also consists of a digital ballistic computer featuring weather and topographical transmitting units and a barrel straightness monitor. The automatic target tracking is autonomously secured from the gunner's and commander's stations by implementing gunner-hunter mode.
> 
> "The tank features modular explosive reactive armour (ERA) panels installed on rear and side projections."
> The tank also features an enhanced dual-axis weapon stabiliser with electro-mechanical power traverse and electro-hydraulic power elevation.
> 
> *Engine and mobility of the modernised MBT*
> The T-90MS MBT is powered by a 12-cylinder V-92S2F diesel engine producing a maximum power output of 1,130hp. The engine is coupled to an automatic transmission with seven forward gears and one reverse gear.
> 
> The tank features torsion bar suspension integrating six hydraulic vane-type shock absorbers, as well as six road wheel and three track support rollers per side. It can accomplish a speed of 60km/h and a range of 550km. It can ford at a depth of 1.8m, while its maximum fording depth with USCE is 5m.
> 
> 
> 
> *T-72B3 Russia*
> * Main battle tank*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The T-72B3 is a refurbished and upgraded version of the ageing T-72B
> 
> 
> The T-72B3 is a recent Russian upgrade of the ageing T-72B tanks. It can be seen as a low-cost alternative to the T-72B2 Rogatka upgrade to keep older T-72B tanks operational. Refurbished and upgraded T-72B3 tanks are fitted with new engine, new gunners sight, new fire control system and have some other improvements. Now this MBT has a hunter-killer capability. First upgraded T-72B3 tanks were delivered in 2013. Russia Army upgraded at least 150, or possibly more, older tanks to this standard.
> 
> In 2014 the T-72B3 tanks saw combat during a military conflict in Ukraine. At least a couple of these tanks were captured by Ukrainian armed forces and pressed into service against the Russians.
> 
> Protection of the upgraded tank was slightly improved. The T-72B3 is fitted with built-in Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armor. The same armor is used by the  T-80U,  T-90 and some other main battle tanks. This armor can effectively defeat most older APFSDS rounds.
> 
> The tank is armed with the same 125-mm smoothbore-gun as its predecessor. However autoloader of the T-72B3 has some modifications and can use newly-developed munitions. This tank can launch 9M119 Svir or 9M119M Refleks anti-tank guided missiles in the same manner as ordinary projectiles. NATO reporting name for both missiles is AT-11 Sniper. A total of 45 rounds are carried. 22 rounds are ready to use, while remaining are stored inside the hull.
> 
> There is a coaxial 7.62-mm machine gun and roof-mounted 12.7-mm machine gun. The 12.7-mm MG is controlled manually by the vehicle commander.
> 
> The tank has new fire control system and new ballistic computer. Gunner uses new Sosna-U sight with thermal imager. This sight has day/night and all weather combat capability. The T-72B3 has a hunter-killer capability even though it lacks commander's panoramic sight. Vehicle commander can select a target and lay the gun and let the gunner complete all the aiming and firing process. During that time commander looks for the next target. The tank is also fitted with new digital radio system.
> 
> Some T-72B3 demonstrator tanks were fitted with commander's panoramic sight. This sight might appear on later models.
> 
> This tank has a crew of three, including commander, gunner and driver.
> 
> Initially refurbished and upgraded T-72B3 tanks were powered by original V-84-1 diesel engine, developing 840 hp. However later production tanks were fitted with the new V-92S2F engine, developing 1 130 hp. This tank is also fitted with new tracks.
> 
> 
> the navy wants light attack submarine?
> 
> 
> I like the OPV ship. maybe we can reverse engineer it to a frigate.



The 1 billion deal for the tanks also include the 6 *BM-30 Smerch MLRS* systems. Actually, I wonder if it is the Smerch which is the old version and not very accurate, I think it might be the Tornado, that's the replacement for it.
The order of T-72B3 is in addition to the 480 already in stock, so the number of T-72 is building up nicely.

I also like the Holland OPV, very nice.

This is the Tornado:





This is the Smerch:

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Well, it seems like if Vietnam does get into Barak 8 production, it will be in a number of years anyway, so the production line should be mature by that time and the components will probably be available.
> 
> There is a lot to digest from the news today. This is very interesting.
> 
> And also considering the possible cooperation with the T-90, VN and India seem to be doing a lot behind the lines.



I dont think there is anything going on behind the scene, there are several reasons for that. One, T-72 going to be upgraded on Tank EX standard, which ultimately include induction of CLGM, so the Indian T-72 is not same as Russian. 

Other thing is that, T-90 Bhisma manufactured by Avadhi is not fulfilling the requirement of IA. And after order of 500 Arjun Mk.2, and Arjun Chassis based arty gun, the production line going to stretch further. 

So, I think these tanks will be imported directly from Russia, with Russian electronics, fire control system and Russian armor, I dont think there is going to an Indian involvement in it, even in electronics and armor.

@Carlosa Maybe You interested in this news 

India's Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) Plans





The Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) joint venture [JV] involved Israel Aerospace Industries and Rafael teaming up with India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Indian Air Force to build medium range surface-to-air missiles (MRSAMs). The deal, worth Rs10,400 crore, would be India's biggest defence JV with a foreign country. The DRDO is a partner in the project, but will get only a third (Rs 3,000 crore) of the Rs 10,000 crore. IAI gets the bulk of it, over Rs 7,000 crore.

DRDO had already developed indigenous air defence systems, such as the Trishul and the Akash. The latter did not fit the bill for the MR-SAM project as its range was only 30 km, while the services had posited the requirement for a missile system with a range of 70 km. MR-SAM systems would be deployed for the security of the National Capital Region as well as for securing nuclear installations across the country.

The Israeli firm IAI was already blacklisted by Government of India, after finding it indulged in commission pay off in Barak Missile Deal in 2000. CBI had lodged FIR against then Indian defence minister, George Fernandes, Former Chief of the Indian Navy, Admiral Sushil Kumar, Suresh Nanda along with his son, Sanjeev Nanda and others regarding defence deal to procure seven Barak systems at a total cost $199.50 million and 200 missiles at a cost of $69.13 million On October 23, 2000. It is alleged that 3.5 percent commission was given to those accused in that earlier deal.

In July 2007 the Cabinet Committee on Security gave the formal clearance for the largest-ever joint venture India has undertaken in the defence sector with any foreign partner. The proposed missile, a new generation Barak missile, was to have around 70-km range. In May 2008 the government formally put on hold India's largest-ever military joint venture with a foreign country - the Rs 10,000 crore effort with Israel to build a medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) for the Air Force.

India and Israel agreed to expand their already considerable missile development cooperation with an even longer-range version of their extended-range Barak ship defense system, this time for the Indian Air Force. The countries were expected to sign an add-on development contract by 2008, following the conclusion of the memorandum of agreement between Indian defense research authorities and prime contractor Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). By one account the new land-based air defense system would feature a range of 150 kilometers [other reports state half this, which is more than double that of the supersonic, vertically launched Barak-8, or Barak NG (New Generation) being developed for the Indian Navy].

Israel and India agreed to a cooperative program to extend the range of the Barak-8/Barak-NG (Barak-8 is the Israeli Naval Terminology, Barak-NG is the Indian Naval name) naval missile. This new system is to be a land-based variant with a range at least twice that of the Barak-8/Barak-NG's 70 to 80 km, therefore the new missile is expected to fly at least 150 km. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) representing Israel and the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) representing India were expected to sign a memorandum of agreement early in 2008 as the two primary contractors.

In an unusual development, in August 2008 the Central Vigilance Commission gave the go-ahead for a massive joint venture with two Israeli defence firms that were under investigation for kickbacks in the Barak missile scandal. The CVC clearance for the project - it had been on hold since June 2007 despite approval from the cabinet committee on security - caused some surprise in official circles.

But the Indian Government signed an agreement with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) on 27 February 2009 to jointly develop a Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) with DRDO. The UPA government signed Rs10,000 crore defence deal with Israel to purchase medium-range surface-to-air missiles, ignoring the 'Akash' developed by the Defence Research and Development Organization and Bharat Electronics Ltd Akash has a range of 27km, while MRSAM has a range of about 70km.

On 31 March 2009 IAI released an official press statement rejecting the claims that it purposely withheld notification of the deal to the Israel Securities Authority. "Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. (IAI) does not release general information regarding transactions with its customers, except for such information as is required to be reported by law. Lately, various articles have appeared in the media regarding a large transaction for the sale of weapon systems to the country of a foreign customer, which have included information that is incorrect and biased, and which have originated, apparently, from entities that are trying to harm IAI's business ties with this customer.

"It was published, among other things, that notification regarding a large transaction for the sale of weapon systems to a foreign customer was delayed until receipt of the advance payment for such transaction, and this on the claim that representatives of that country's government requested that the notification be delayed. IAI's management wishes to make it clear that these claims and articles have no basis in reality and, in any event, have not emanated from IAI."

Nova Integrated Systems, a Tata-IAI joint venture, is integrating the MRSAM. Several officials in the defence ministry were said to be "baffled" as to how a private-sector firm had been nominated as the integrator for the missile system. In India, all missile systems are integrated in public-sector units, usually Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL). DRDO had suggested BDL as the integrator for the MRSAM, with the Israelis supplying the seeker and some radar components, and DRDO making the airframe, servos, and propulsion.

The MRSAM JV would initially build two regiments of 36 launchers for the IAF. The missile launcher and the command post would be made in India, with the rest of the complex system - including the missile itself - to be made in Israel. IAI will reportedly supply India with 2,000 missiles capable of intercepting enemy aircraft and missiles within a 70-kilometer range. The proposed MRSAM, to replace the old Pechora missiles of the IAF. DRDO would station at least 25 of its scientists in Israel for the project. The first prototype was planned in about two and a half years [around 2011] and the development would be completed in five years from its start.

The IAF funded 90 percent of the project, while 10 per cent is funded by the DRDO for the development phase of the MR-SAM. Signed in March 2009, the contract is for 18 fire units (each equipped with 24 missiles) that must be delivered by October 2016. Each fire unit comes with a radar, three missile launchers, and a sophisticated Combat Management System. Since a missile has a limited shelf life, additional orders for missiles will continue to be placed as they are consumed. The MR-SAM uses the same missile as the LR-SAM to protect its air bases. The ground infrastructure, however, is far more complex.

Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) said the 10 November 2014 full system intercept test validated all elements of the locally developed air and missile defense system and transitions the program into operational testing as it ramps up to serial production. “The system is now operational,” said Boaz Levy, executive vice president and general manager of IAI’s Systems, Missiles and Space Group.

“All components of sea- and land-based systems were validated under realistic threat conditions,” Levy said of the vertically launched intercepting system designed for persistent defense against saturation attacks by long-range missiles and a spectrum of air-breathing threats. Briefing reporters, Levy said he expected Barak-8 partners in Israel and India to declare initial operational capability (IOC) in “a number of months.”

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## Echo_419

Carlosa said:


> Wow, Barak 8 to be license produced in VN!!!
> Do you know if it will be the naval or land version?
> 
> I also see that the Spyder SAM will be license produced in VN.
> 
> Quite a bit of missile production in VN coming up. Yakhon will also start production in VN in 2017 for what I hear.
> 
> Do you have any news of when fighter jets will be ordered? I've been hearing that VN wants the SU-34 and some better version of SU-30 or SU-35.


Barak 8 is truly a world class SAM Vietnam has made the right choice

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## Carlosa

Echo_419 said:


> Barak 8 is truly a world class SAM Vietnam has made the right choice



Definitely, I consider it as the very best SAM right now. And the Spyder SR/MR for the shorter range. The Israelis are really on top and they are cost effective.



kaku1 said:


> I@Carlosa Maybe You interested in this news
> 
> India's Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) Plans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) joint venture [JV] involved Israel Aerospace Industries and Rafael teaming up with India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Indian Air Force to build medium range surface-to-air missiles (MRSAMs). The deal, worth Rs10,400 crore, would be India's biggest defence JV with a foreign country. The DRDO is a partner in the project, but will get only a third (Rs 3,000 crore) of the Rs 10,000 crore. IAI gets the bulk of it, over Rs 7,000 crore.
> 
> DRDO had already developed indigenous air defence systems, such as the Trishul and the Akash. The latter did not fit the bill for the MR-SAM project as its range was only 30 km, while the services had posited the requirement for a missile system with a range of 70 km. MR-SAM systems would be deployed for the security of the National Capital Region as well as for securing nuclear installations across the country.
> 
> The Israeli firm IAI was already blacklisted by Government of India, after finding it indulged in commission pay off in Barak Missile Deal in 2000. CBI had lodged FIR against then Indian defence minister, George Fernandes, Former Chief of the Indian Navy, Admiral Sushil Kumar, Suresh Nanda along with his son, Sanjeev Nanda and others regarding defence deal to procure seven Barak systems at a total cost $199.50 million and 200 missiles at a cost of $69.13 million On October 23, 2000. It is alleged that 3.5 percent commission was given to those accused in that earlier deal.
> 
> In July 2007 the Cabinet Committee on Security gave the formal clearance for the largest-ever joint venture India has undertaken in the defence sector with any foreign partner. The proposed missile, a new generation Barak missile, was to have around 70-km range. In May 2008 the government formally put on hold India's largest-ever military joint venture with a foreign country - the Rs 10,000 crore effort with Israel to build a medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) for the Air Force.
> 
> India and Israel agreed to expand their already considerable missile development cooperation with an even longer-range version of their extended-range Barak ship defense system, this time for the Indian Air Force. The countries were expected to sign an add-on development contract by 2008, following the conclusion of the memorandum of agreement between Indian defense research authorities and prime contractor Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). By one account the new land-based air defense system would feature a range of 150 kilometers [other reports state half this, which is more than double that of the supersonic, vertically launched Barak-8, or Barak NG (New Generation) being developed for the Indian Navy].
> 
> Israel and India agreed to a cooperative program to extend the range of the Barak-8/Barak-NG (Barak-8 is the Israeli Naval Terminology, Barak-NG is the Indian Naval name) naval missile. This new system is to be a land-based variant with a range at least twice that of the Barak-8/Barak-NG's 70 to 80 km, therefore the new missile is expected to fly at least 150 km. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) representing Israel and the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) representing India were expected to sign a memorandum of agreement early in 2008 as the two primary contractors.
> 
> In an unusual development, in August 2008 the Central Vigilance Commission gave the go-ahead for a massive joint venture with two Israeli defence firms that were under investigation for kickbacks in the Barak missile scandal. The CVC clearance for the project - it had been on hold since June 2007 despite approval from the cabinet committee on security - caused some surprise in official circles.
> 
> But the Indian Government signed an agreement with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) on 27 February 2009 to jointly develop a Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) with DRDO. The UPA government signed Rs10,000 crore defence deal with Israel to purchase medium-range surface-to-air missiles, ignoring the 'Akash' developed by the Defence Research and Development Organization and Bharat Electronics Ltd Akash has a range of 27km, while MRSAM has a range of about 70km.
> 
> On 31 March 2009 IAI released an official press statement rejecting the claims that it purposely withheld notification of the deal to the Israel Securities Authority. "Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. (IAI) does not release general information regarding transactions with its customers, except for such information as is required to be reported by law. Lately, various articles have appeared in the media regarding a large transaction for the sale of weapon systems to the country of a foreign customer, which have included information that is incorrect and biased, and which have originated, apparently, from entities that are trying to harm IAI's business ties with this customer.
> 
> "It was published, among other things, that notification regarding a large transaction for the sale of weapon systems to a foreign customer was delayed until receipt of the advance payment for such transaction, and this on the claim that representatives of that country's government requested that the notification be delayed. IAI's management wishes to make it clear that these claims and articles have no basis in reality and, in any event, have not emanated from IAI."
> 
> Nova Integrated Systems, a Tata-IAI joint venture, is integrating the MRSAM. Several officials in the defence ministry were said to be "baffled" as to how a private-sector firm had been nominated as the integrator for the missile system. In India, all missile systems are integrated in public-sector units, usually Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL). DRDO had suggested BDL as the integrator for the MRSAM, with the Israelis supplying the seeker and some radar components, and DRDO making the airframe, servos, and propulsion.
> 
> The MRSAM JV would initially build two regiments of 36 launchers for the IAF. The missile launcher and the command post would be made in India, with the rest of the complex system - including the missile itself - to be made in Israel. IAI will reportedly supply India with 2,000 missiles capable of intercepting enemy aircraft and missiles within a 70-kilometer range. The proposed MRSAM, to replace the old Pechora missiles of the IAF. DRDO would station at least 25 of its scientists in Israel for the project. The first prototype was planned in about two and a half years [around 2011] and the development would be completed in five years from its start.
> 
> The IAF funded 90 percent of the project, while 10 per cent is funded by the DRDO for the development phase of the MR-SAM. Signed in March 2009, the contract is for 18 fire units (each equipped with 24 missiles) that must be delivered by October 2016. Each fire unit comes with a radar, three missile launchers, and a sophisticated Combat Management System. Since a missile has a limited shelf life, additional orders for missiles will continue to be placed as they are consumed. The MR-SAM uses the same missile as the LR-SAM to protect its air bases. The ground infrastructure, however, is far more complex.
> 
> Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) said the 10 November 2014 full system intercept test validated all elements of the locally developed air and missile defense system and transitions the program into operational testing as it ramps up to serial production. “The system is now operational,” said Boaz Levy, executive vice president and general manager of IAI’s Systems, Missiles and Space Group.
> 
> “All components of sea- and land-based systems were validated under realistic threat conditions,” Levy said of the vertically launched intercepting system designed for persistent defense against saturation attacks by long-range missiles and a spectrum of air-breathing threats. Briefing reporters, Levy said he expected Barak-8 partners in Israel and India to declare initial operational capability (IOC) in “a number of months.”



Yes, a nice development, I've been following that one too, I follow every Israeli SAM system, they are the best man. India and Vietnam are doing the right choices, its very good that India develops with Israel, that's the best partner for India in terms of tech coop without hustles and delays.


----------



## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> The order of T-72B3 is in addition to the 480 already in stock, so the number of T-72 is building up nicely.


May be something wrong, the plan is purchase 480 T72 and upgrade, currently we don't have any source state that we've already possed 480 T72,


----------



## Viet

kaku1 said:


> I dont think there is anything going on behind the scene, there are several reasons for that. One, T-72 going to be upgraded on Tank EX standard, which ultimately include induction of CLGM, so the Indian T-72 is not same as Russian.
> 
> Other thing is that, T-90 Bhisma manufactured by Avadhi is not fulfilling the requirement of IA. And after order of 500 Arjun Mk.2, and Arjun Chassis based arty gun, the production line going to stretch further.
> 
> So, I think these tanks will be imported directly from Russia, with Russian electronics, fire control system and Russian armor, I dont think there is going to an Indian involvement in it, even in electronics and armor.
> 
> @Carlosa Maybe You interested in this news
> 
> India's Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) Plans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) joint venture [JV] involved Israel Aerospace Industries and Rafael teaming up with India's Defence Research and Development Organisation and the Indian Air Force to build medium range surface-to-air missiles (MRSAMs). The deal, worth Rs10,400 crore, would be India's biggest defence JV with a foreign country. The DRDO is a partner in the project, but will get only a third (Rs 3,000 crore) of the Rs 10,000 crore. IAI gets the bulk of it, over Rs 7,000 crore.
> 
> DRDO had already developed indigenous air defence systems, such as the Trishul and the Akash. The latter did not fit the bill for the MR-SAM project as its range was only 30 km, while the services had posited the requirement for a missile system with a range of 70 km. MR-SAM systems would be deployed for the security of the National Capital Region as well as for securing nuclear installations across the country.
> 
> The Israeli firm IAI was already blacklisted by Government of India, after finding it indulged in commission pay off in Barak Missile Deal in 2000. CBI had lodged FIR against then Indian defence minister, George Fernandes, Former Chief of the Indian Navy, Admiral Sushil Kumar, Suresh Nanda along with his son, Sanjeev Nanda and others regarding defence deal to procure seven Barak systems at a total cost $199.50 million and 200 missiles at a cost of $69.13 million On October 23, 2000. It is alleged that 3.5 percent commission was given to those accused in that earlier deal.
> 
> In July 2007 the Cabinet Committee on Security gave the formal clearance for the largest-ever joint venture India has undertaken in the defence sector with any foreign partner. The proposed missile, a new generation Barak missile, was to have around 70-km range. In May 2008 the government formally put on hold India's largest-ever military joint venture with a foreign country - the Rs 10,000 crore effort with Israel to build a medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) for the Air Force.
> 
> India and Israel agreed to expand their already considerable missile development cooperation with an even longer-range version of their extended-range Barak ship defense system, this time for the Indian Air Force. The countries were expected to sign an add-on development contract by 2008, following the conclusion of the memorandum of agreement between Indian defense research authorities and prime contractor Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). By one account the new land-based air defense system would feature a range of 150 kilometers [other reports state half this, which is more than double that of the supersonic, vertically launched Barak-8, or Barak NG (New Generation) being developed for the Indian Navy].
> 
> Israel and India agreed to a cooperative program to extend the range of the Barak-8/Barak-NG (Barak-8 is the Israeli Naval Terminology, Barak-NG is the Indian Naval name) naval missile. This new system is to be a land-based variant with a range at least twice that of the Barak-8/Barak-NG's 70 to 80 km, therefore the new missile is expected to fly at least 150 km. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) representing Israel and the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) representing India were expected to sign a memorandum of agreement early in 2008 as the two primary contractors.
> 
> In an unusual development, in August 2008 the Central Vigilance Commission gave the go-ahead for a massive joint venture with two Israeli defence firms that were under investigation for kickbacks in the Barak missile scandal. The CVC clearance for the project - it had been on hold since June 2007 despite approval from the cabinet committee on security - caused some surprise in official circles.
> 
> But the Indian Government signed an agreement with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) on 27 February 2009 to jointly develop a Medium Range Surface to Air Missile (MRSAM) with DRDO. The UPA government signed Rs10,000 crore defence deal with Israel to purchase medium-range surface-to-air missiles, ignoring the 'Akash' developed by the Defence Research and Development Organization and Bharat Electronics Ltd Akash has a range of 27km, while MRSAM has a range of about 70km.
> 
> On 31 March 2009 IAI released an official press statement rejecting the claims that it purposely withheld notification of the deal to the Israel Securities Authority. "Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. (IAI) does not release general information regarding transactions with its customers, except for such information as is required to be reported by law. Lately, various articles have appeared in the media regarding a large transaction for the sale of weapon systems to the country of a foreign customer, which have included information that is incorrect and biased, and which have originated, apparently, from entities that are trying to harm IAI's business ties with this customer.
> 
> "It was published, among other things, that notification regarding a large transaction for the sale of weapon systems to a foreign customer was delayed until receipt of the advance payment for such transaction, and this on the claim that representatives of that country's government requested that the notification be delayed. IAI's management wishes to make it clear that these claims and articles have no basis in reality and, in any event, have not emanated from IAI."
> 
> Nova Integrated Systems, a Tata-IAI joint venture, is integrating the MRSAM. Several officials in the defence ministry were said to be "baffled" as to how a private-sector firm had been nominated as the integrator for the missile system. In India, all missile systems are integrated in public-sector units, usually Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL). DRDO had suggested BDL as the integrator for the MRSAM, with the Israelis supplying the seeker and some radar components, and DRDO making the airframe, servos, and propulsion.
> 
> The MRSAM JV would initially build two regiments of 36 launchers for the IAF. The missile launcher and the command post would be made in India, with the rest of the complex system - including the missile itself - to be made in Israel. IAI will reportedly supply India with 2,000 missiles capable of intercepting enemy aircraft and missiles within a 70-kilometer range. The proposed MRSAM, to replace the old Pechora missiles of the IAF. DRDO would station at least 25 of its scientists in Israel for the project. The first prototype was planned in about two and a half years [around 2011] and the development would be completed in five years from its start.
> 
> The IAF funded 90 percent of the project, while 10 per cent is funded by the DRDO for the development phase of the MR-SAM. Signed in March 2009, the contract is for 18 fire units (each equipped with 24 missiles) that must be delivered by October 2016. Each fire unit comes with a radar, three missile launchers, and a sophisticated Combat Management System. Since a missile has a limited shelf life, additional orders for missiles will continue to be placed as they are consumed. The MR-SAM uses the same missile as the LR-SAM to protect its air bases. The ground infrastructure, however, is far more complex.
> 
> Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) said the 10 November 2014 full system intercept test validated all elements of the locally developed air and missile defense system and transitions the program into operational testing as it ramps up to serial production. “The system is now operational,” said Boaz Levy, executive vice president and general manager of IAI’s Systems, Missiles and Space Group.
> 
> “All components of sea- and land-based systems were validated under realistic threat conditions,” Levy said of the vertically launched intercepting system designed for persistent defense against saturation attacks by long-range missiles and a spectrum of air-breathing threats. Briefing reporters, Levy said he expected Barak-8 partners in Israel and India to declare initial operational capability (IOC) in “a number of months.”


Irrespective India provides tanks to Vietnam army or not, but I think one thing we can take as granted is we will turn on India for training for the new T72/T90 tanks. It makes very much sense we already send staffs to India for trainings on SU-30 and Kilo.

Should VN navy decide for Scorpène, what is very likely, we will cooperatate with you as well.



Thao Nguyen said:


> there are many rumor about Long Binh, mostly about nuke bombs (may be 3) (name " broken arrow- mũi tên gãy"), but nobody know they are exist, mostly news is we open all of them and get a lot of normal weapon
> I don't think it exist


well, I don´t think we have a nuclear weapon program yet, either. we may have some secret basic researches, but for building nuclear warheads, we still lack of nuclear fuel, technology and experience. besides, we are not allowed to acquire nuclear weapons as the treaties we signed.



Carlosa said:


> The 1 billion deal for the tanks also include the 6 *BM-30 Smerch MLRS* systems. Actually, I wonder if it is the Smerch which is the old version and not very accurate, I think it might be the Tornado, that's the replacement for it.
> The order of T-72B3 is in addition to the 480 already in stock, so the number of T-72 is building up nicely.
> 
> I also like the Holland OPV, very nice.
> 
> This is the Tornado:
> View attachment 183326
> 
> 
> This is the Smerch:
> View attachment 183327


nice. where do you get the source?

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> May be something wrong, the plan is purchase 480 T72 and upgrade, currently we don't have any source state that we've already possed 480 T72,



No official sources for that, but plenty of indirect sources including Russian statements that VN needed to upgrade its stock of 480 T-72 tanks. VN already has 480 and the latest order is for another 186.



Viet said:


> Irrespective India provides tanks to Vietnam army or not, but I think one thing we can take as granted is we will turn on India for training for the new T72/T90 tanks. It makes very much sense we already send staffs to India for trainings on SU-30 and Kilo.
> 
> Should VN navy decide for Scorpène, what is very likely, we will cooperatate with you as well.
> 
> 
> well, I don´t think we have a nuclear weapon program yet, either. we may have some secret basic researches, but for building nuclear warheads, we still lack of nuclear fuel, technology and experience. besides, we are not allowed to acquire nuclear weapons as the treaties we signed.
> 
> 
> nice. where do you get the source?



All the info is in the info posted by Triumfvn, look at when it says "part of 1 billion deal" there are 3 items that says that, those are the items of that deal.

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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> well, I don´t think we have a nuclear weapon program yet, either. we may have some secret basic researches, but for building nuclear warheads, we still lack of nuclear fuel, technology and experience. besides, we are not allowed to acquire nuclear weapons as the treaties we signed.
> 
> 
> nice. where do you get the source?


No, I mean Nuclear weapon which American left in Vietnam when they retreat, not develop by Vietnamese
Source : ttvnol


Carlosa said:


> No official sources for that, but plenty of indirect sources including Russian statements that VN needed to upgrade its stock of 480 T-72 tanks. VN already has 480 and the latest order is for another 186.


yes, i heard from triumph

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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> No, I mean Nuclear weapon which American left in Vietnam when they retreat, not develop by Vietnamese
> Source : ttvnol


nukes left over after the VN war? are you serious?
I don´t think the US armed forces deployed nuclear weapons to South Vietnam. that is very unlikely. North Vietnam did not possess nuclear weapons.

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> No, I mean Nuclear weapon which American left in Vietnam when they retreat, not develop by Vietnamese
> Source : ttvnol



Can you elaborate some more on that? We don't know anything about that.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> nukes left over after the VN war? are you serious?
> I don´t think the US armed forces deployed nuclear weapons to South Vietnam. that is very unlikely. North Vietnam did not possess nuclear weapons.


That is the rumor i heard, but i did not believe, these nukes named " broken arrow" (may be 2) left in Long Binh stock ,
Also a rumor that Vietnamese can not open all the chamber in Long Binh, so they can not find the nuke yet, US have already make 1 secret operation in 2001 to retrive the "broken arrow", but they did not success, now Long Binh and Kim Boi are 2 areas which is highly protect by VPA.
It's not used against North Vietnam,but against USSR in the cold war ,but you know, It's hard to believe, so i did not believe to, but still alot of people believe about it
I just thinks about it because some one talk about Long Binh as a hint, and remind about some very special weapon,


kangaroo said:


> i did a brief search and it seems my database has access to those infiniti research reports. but you have to give me a specific title you want to look for as its a very broad database. i will look into the tanks and ships when i have some free time.
> 
> 
> it is not. this thing has been rumoured for a very long time to be in vietnam's possession, probably started in the early 90s. i give you a hint: Long Binh


he mean that in early 90s, Vietnamese can open the secret chamber in Long Binh Stock and found the nuke

I don't have enough permission to post any links here yet, but if you can use Vietnamese, you can search about Long Bình stock and the " broken arrow"- mũi tên gãy


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> That is the rumor i heard, but i did not believe, these nukes named " broken arrow" (may be 2) left in Long Binh stock ,
> Also a rumor that Vietnamese can not open all the chamber in Long Binh, so they can not find the nuke yet, US have already make 1 secret operation in 2001 to retrive the "broken arrow", but they did not success, now Long Binh and Kim Boi are 2 areas which is highly protect by VPA.
> It's not used against North Vietnam,but against USSR in the cold war ,but you know, It's hard to believe, so i did not believe to, but still alot of people believe about it
> I just thinks about it because some one talk about Long Binh as a hint, and remind about some very special weapon,
> 
> he mean that in early 90s, Vietnamese can open the secret chamber in Long Binh Stock and found the nuke
> 
> I don't have enough permission to post any links here yet, but if you can use Vietnamese, you can search about Long Bình stock and the " broken arrow"- mũi tên gãy


I search a bit in vietnamese news...indeed some mention it. well, it can be true.

If there were nuclear bombs left over in VN, then most probably this one: B-61 fall bomb.

Germany as a non-nuclear weapon state has US nuclear bombs in the depots. the german airforce, Tornado fighter jet, is trained to carry a US made nuclear bomb: B61, against USSR and now Russia. the Tornado can fly at extremly low attitude (30m) and bring the bomb to the target undetected. so theoretically the southern vietnamese airforce could have been trained on bomb raids. It is awesome.

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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> I search a bit in vietnamese news...indeed some mention it. well, it can be true.
> 
> Germany as a non-nuclear weapon state has US nuclear bombs in the depots. the german airforce, Tornado fighter jet, is trained to carry a US made nuclear bomb: B61, against USSR and now Russia. the Tornado can fly at extremly low attitude (30m) and bring the bomb to the target undetected. so theoretically the southern vietnamese airforce could have been trained on bomb raids. It is awesome.


you drink to much Fristy man, you think to much, infact, I don't think US can make friend with VN when Vietnam still hold these nuke


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I search a bit in vietnamese news...indeed some mention it. well, it can be true.
> 
> Germany as a non-nuclear weapon state has US nuclear bombs in the depots. the german airforce, Tornado fighter jet, is trained to carry a US made nuclear bomb: B61, against USSR and now Russia. the Tornado can fly at extremly low attitude (30m) and bring the bomb to the target undetected. so theoretically the southern vietnamese airforce could have been trained on bomb raids. It is awesome.
> 
> View attachment 183435
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 183436



I can't find anything searching in English, can you post some of what you found?


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## kangaroo

Thao Nguyen said:


> That is the rumor i heard, but i did not believe, these nukes named " broken arrow" (may be 2) left in Long Binh stock ,
> Also a rumor that Vietnamese can not open all the chamber in Long Binh, so they can not find the nuke yet, US have already make 1 secret operation in 2001 to retrive the "broken arrow", but they did not success, now Long Binh and Kim Boi are 2 areas which is highly protect by VPA.
> It's not used against North Vietnam,but against USSR in the cold war ,but you know, It's hard to believe, so i did not believe to, but still alot of people believe about it
> I just thinks about it because some one talk about Long Binh as a hint, and remind about some very special weapon,
> 
> he mean that in early 90s, Vietnamese can open the secret chamber in Long Binh Stock and found the nuke
> 
> I don't have enough permission to post any links here yet, but if you can use Vietnamese, you can search about Long Bình stock and the " broken arrow"- mũi tên gãy



i gave Long Binh as a hint because its partly related to the weapon that Vietnam will receive/develop in the future. the IBM report said they "expect" vietnam to pursuit nuclear warhead with assisstance to expand on the missile stock from India or Russia. 
it also mentioned the possibility of biological/chemical weapon given the political will and regional circumstances


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> you drink to much Fristy man, you think to much, infact, I don't think US can make friend with VN when Vietnam still hold these nuke


LOL, bro, if any US nuclear bombs existed, we would have given back to unclea sam after finding it long time ago.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> LOL, bro, if any US nuclear bombs existed, we would have given back to unclea sam after finding it long time ago.


off course, I think that too


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## Viet

kangaroo said:


> i gave Long Binh as a hint because its partly related to the weapon that Vietnam will receive/develop in the future. the IBM report said they "expect" *vietnam to pursuit nuclear warhead *with assisstance to expand on the missile stock from India or Russia.
> it also mentioned the possibility of biological/chemical weapon given the political will and regional circumstances


I had predicted such thing would come. possessing nuclear weapons makes sense, as you say it: "given regional circumstances", but I don´t see any sense of developing biological/chemical weapons. what is the use of such things for? that is a terrible idea. we no longer live in a world before WWI.



Carlosa said:


> I can't find anything searching in English, can you post some of what you found?


he he he, bro, no english, but some rumours in two vietnamese sites.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I had predicted such thing would come. possessing nuclear weapons makes sense, as you say it: "given regional circumstances", but I don´t see any sense of developing biological/chemical weapons. what is the use of such things for? that is a terrible idea. we no longer live in a world before WWI.
> 
> 
> he he he, bro, no english, but some rumours in two vietnamese sites.
> View attachment 183547



Ok,ok, I get the idea, thank you bro. I also like the idea of developing nuclear warheads for the ballistic missiles.

On another note, the admin from comcom posted in the MP forum that VN is developing a 4500 ton frigate with Damen.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ok,ok, I get the idea, thank you bro. I also like the idea of developing nuclear warheads for the ballistic missiles.
> 
> On another note, the admin from comcom posted in the MP forum that VN is developing a 4500 ton frigate with Damen.


wow, that is a pretty fkcing cool news: 4,500 tons frigate. so something like this: Sigmar frigate 9813.


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Ok,ok, I get the idea, thank you bro. I also like the idea of developing nuclear warheads for the ballistic missiles.
> 
> On another note, the admin from comcom posted in the MP forum that VN is developing a 4500 ton frigate with Damen.


Yeah, I think it may carry Aster-30 air defense missile, how about 1500 tons war ship you mention before


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> wow, that is a pretty fkcing cool news: 4,500 tons frigate. so something like this: Sigmar frigate 9813.
> View attachment 183572



No, not like that, the Sigma 9813 is about the same size as the one that VN is getting now. It should be much bigger, no info yet.



Thao Nguyen said:


> Yeah, I think it may carry Aster-30 air defense missile, how about 1500 tons war ship you mention before



Can't find any info on that one, nobody is talking, which means that is happening.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No, not like that, the Sigma 9813 is about the same size as the one that VN is getting now. It should be much *bigger*, no info yet.


bigger? how about 
*ZEVEN PROVINCIEN CLASS FRIGATES*


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bigger? how about
> *ZEVEN PROVINCIEN CLASS FRIGATES*
> View attachment 183575



Yeah, something like that.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, something like that.



Stupid question, but how to reply in MP? It saying my account doest have privilege to reply? :/


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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Ok,ok, I get the idea, thank you bro. I also like the idea of developing nuclear warheads for the ballistic missiles.
> 
> On another note, the admin from comcom posted in the MP forum that VN is developing a 4500 ton frigate with Damen.


If Vietnam order such big frigate, it's too fast and too furious. They are for 2021-2025 plan, may be.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, something like that.


with yakhont and barak missiles onboard.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Stupid question, but how to reply in MP? It saying my account doest have privilege to reply? :/



Are you talking about the MP forum? That's very strange once you have membership, I really don't know.



Viet said:


> with yakhont and barak missiles onboard.



That's the right combination bro !!!



Triumfvn said:


> If Vietnam order such big frigate, it's too fast and too furious. They are for 2021-2025 plan, may be.



Whenever it is, they are welcome,  VN needs something heavier.

By the way, do you know anything about the domestic project that VN is developing? I only know that is bigger than Molniya and about 1000 tons or so, something like a follow on of the Molniya class.

Now I know who you are, good job mate, I often look at your facebook page.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ok,ok, I get the idea, thank you bro. I also like the idea of *developing nuclear warheads* for the ballistic missiles.


I was against the possession of nuclear weapon, but changed my mind after the chinese deployed the oil rig into our EEZ. It was not JUST about the act of deploying the oil rig, but their attitudes during the confrontation. they not only sent a huge number of civil, fishing and patrol vessels including warships and aircraft into our waters, but refused to talk with their viet counterparts. one of their media threatened with war. Such ARROGANCE of power.

the way for Vietnam to nuclear weapons possession goes over a strategic relationship with America. the americans hold all the cards in the hands. in this regard, I´m optismistic about the growing relation with America. the new US embassor to Vietnam, Theodore Osius, promised during a meeting to make America to the #1 investor within 2-3 years. That is a very good news for us. That means they want to top S Korea, that invested $4b last year in VN. a strong army requires a strong economy.








Triumfvn said:


> If Vietnam order such big frigate, it's too fast and too furious. They are for 2021-2025 plan, may be.


no, we need BIG and BIGGER warships. we are not dealing with the siamese navy. have you seen what kind of warships the chinese have right now, and they plan? what our navy has, is nothing.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I was against the possession of nuclear weapon, but changed my mind after the chinese deployed the oil rig into our EEZ. It was not JUST about the act of deploying the oil rig, but their attitudes during the confrontation. they not only sent a huge number of civil, fishing and patrol vessels including warships and aircraft into our waters, but refused to talk with their viet counterparts. one of their media threatened with war. Such ARROGANCE of power.
> 
> the way for Vietnam to nuclear weapons possession goes over a strategic relationship with America. the americans hold all the cards in the hands. in this regard, I´m optismistic about the growing relation with America. the new US embassor to Vietnam, Theodore Osius, promised during a meeting to make America to the #1 investor within 2-3 years. That is a very good news for us. That means they want to top S Korea, that invested $4b last year in VN.



Same with me, I was also opposed and changed my mind because of the oil rig. The chinese shown their true colors and made clear that talking with them is just a waste of time. Any treaty or agreement with them is not worth the paper that is written on. They will break it at the moment that it suits them.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Same with me, I was also opposed and changed my mind because of the oil rig. The chinese shown their true colors and made clear that talking with them is just a waste of time. Any treaty or agreement with them is not worth the paper that is written on. They will break it at the moment that it suits them.


Best way is that, directly import some designs from India, and make them. Best is Israeli way, never accept to the world, but keep these big sticks for any eventuality.



Carlosa said:


> Are you talking about the MP forum? That's very strange once you have membership, I really don't know.


Yes:/

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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, something like that.


No, Vietnamese' style: Re-design from Project 11541 Korsar like Gepard-3.9 (re-design also).




or

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## Viet

Triumfvn said:


> No, Vietnamese' style: Re-design from Project 11541 Korsar like Gepard-3.9 (re-design also).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or


nice, but the new designed warship would be a netherlands damen one, isn´t it? not russian.
by the way, do you know how many more gepards we will receive, 2 or 4? do you know the displacement?

$350m for a new gepard is a lot of money, $700m for the new pair. I expect it to be bigger than the first pair.


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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> No, Vietnamese' style: Re-design from Project 11541 Korsar like Gepard-3.9 (re-design also).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or



Nice ship, I see 2 large VLS systems.

So for what I can see, there are 2 options, a Russian ship as you believe or a western ship from Damen as the admin from comcom believes. Its good to know all the options, they are both very nice.

Do you know anything about the domestic corvette project of 1000 tons?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Same with me, I was also opposed and changed my mind because of the oil rig. The chinese shown their true colors and made clear that talking with them is just a waste of time. Any treaty or agreement with them is not worth the paper that is written on. They will break it at the moment that it suits them.


the Germans have learned a proverb during the cold war: to maintain status quo you need "*Gleichgewicht des Schreckens*" (balance of terror). if we want to deter enemy from aggression we must acquire creditable means to inflict unsustainable costs to enemy in case of confrontation.



kaku1 said:


> Best way is that, directly import some designs from India, and make them. Best is Israeli way, never accept to the world, but keep these big sticks for any eventuality.
> 
> Yes:/


yes, only power speaks.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> nice, but the new designed warship would be a netherlands damen one, isn´t it? not russian.
> by the way, do you know how many more gepards we will receive, 2 or 4? do you know the displacement?
> 
> $350m for a new gepard is a lot of money, $700m for the new pair. I expect it to be bigger than the first pair.



At this point its starting to be quite clear that it will be a total of 6 Gepards.
Same size, the difference would be in the weapon systems.
I don't know what they will have for 350 million each, but better be very good because that's too much money for a Gepard.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> At this point its starting to be quite clear that it will be a total of 6 Gepards.
> Same size, the difference would be in the weapon systems.
> I don't know what they will have for 350 million each, but better be very good because that's too much money for a Gepard.


I suspect the next gepards are bigger in size (or longer?). some vietnamese officials went to russia, on a visit to the shipyard, that manufactures the Gepards. seem the navy is very interested of their progress.

















a pic of a helo landing on the current Gepard.

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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> At this point its starting to be quite clear that it will be a total of 6 Gepards.
> Same size, the difference would be in the weapon systems.
> I don't know what they will have for 350 million each, but better be very good because that's too much money for a Gepard.


And may be 4 Sigma-9814 and 2 Sigma-10514 by 2022-2023.

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> And may be 4 Sigma-9814 and 2 Sigma-10514 by 2022-2023.



My friend, can I ask you what's your opinion regarding what new weapon systems the second and third batch of Gepards will have? We've been wondering what do they have for the price to go to $350 million each.

We know that there is a anti-sub package and probably 2 Palmas in the back, but not much else is clear. There is a lot of speculation about maybe having air defense missiles, maybe Shtil-1, etc, but nothing is clear. Also maybe a reduct VLS. Can you make the picture a bit more clear for us?


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## Viet

_Many wonder what is Russian stance in the south china sea, in the dispute between VN and CN? Russia policy in the war in the Ukraine, the confrontation with the West, the coop with ASEAN.
The article reveals some info. Pravda is the mouthpeace of the communist party of Russia._


*Can Russia retrieve Soviet-era influence in Vietnam?*
08.01.2015
pravda.ru






Russia's turn to the East is not a plan of action under the sanctions of the West. *Russia's most loyal allies are situated in the East - they are Vietnam and India.* Pravda.Ru asked candidate of historical sciences and the independent expert Ilya Usov to share his views on how Russia may develop its ties with these countries.

"The foundation for Russia's eastern vector was laid long ago. Russia's current activities in the east are not related to the events in Ukraine. Russia has been moving in this direction since the middle of the first decade of the 21st century. It was written in documents of state importance, in energy policy and in Russia's national strategy in genera. Today, Russia should diversify its foreign policy from the Euro-Atlantic area to the East.

The events in Ukraine have given an incentive to the movement in this direction. Such significant events as the APEC summit and many others have taken place in the East not that long ago.

Southeast Asia has always taken an important place in Russia's foreign policy, along with the relations with China and India. We have traditional partners there, including Vietnam. We have tried and are trying to develop friendly diplomatic and economic relations with those countries. Russia considered numerous economic projects with Indonesia. Thailand and, in fact, all ten ASEAN countries, including sub-regions of Southeast Asia, have always been a priority of Russia's foreign policy."

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"Is ASEAN independent on the present-day geopolitical arena?"

"ASEAN actually exists as an economic and geopolitical power. ASEAN was created for integration in economic, political and cultural spheres as a counterbalance to the influence of external forces, such as China and the United States. Now the situation has changed due to the increasing role of China in the region that scares the countries of Southeast Asia. Historically, they have always had complex relationships, and the emergence of a very strong player, of course, raises concerns.

*China is a partner of ASEAN, but China may behave very aggressively at times.* The US tries to carry out the geopolitics of containment towards China, to attract the countries of Southeast Asia. The role of the United States has grown in the region recently. Russia, too, has always eyed the region of Southeast Asia. Against such a background, South-East Asia, torn between the US and China, was trying to find a third force for counterbalance, and they saw Russia as such force.

In 2010, Russia joined the mechanism of East Asian Summit, with the summit of ASEAN countries being the most important one of them. They wanted to use Russia as a third player to their independent policy. For the time being, Russia's role in the region has been weakening, and the role of the United States has been growing stronger. In addition, some countries of Southeast Asia believe that Russia is running a pro-Chinese policy, which is not true to fact."

"Which countries are our most promising partners?"

"*The most promising partner is the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. *We have two strategic partners in the region - China and Vietnam. They are economically and historically close to us. We have very good political relations. And today, we see that Russia's ties with Vietnam have been growing stronger. The elite of Vietnam came from the Soviet school. They remember the Vietnam War, in which the Soviet Union was helping Vietnam very actively. They are favorably disposed towards Russia. In Vietnam, there is a triumvirate of power. This is the president, the prime minister and general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam.

"*Vietnam can not be politically allied with Russia as far as the situation in Ukraine is concerned, because the country is very much dependent on the United States. *The US and EU are the two major markets for Vietnamese products in the export-oriented economy.

Vietnam can not support Russia politically because of the political support for the Americans in the dispute with China. Yet, a recent visit of Vietnamese officials to Russia indicates that, in principle, Vietnam is ready and willing to continue cooperation with Russia. Vietnam is ready to continue to partner with Russia, but *Vietnam will not join sanctions against Russia.*"

"Do you think that Russia has to be very cautious in its relations with Russia and China because these two countries remain in very tough opposition to each other?"

"Russia has to be smart about it. We have had great experiences with China - gas contracts, many economic contracts. Russia has significantly improved political relations with China lately and reached a new level. *In China, many hoped that Russia would take a pro-Chinese stance towards the South China Sea, *where the fundamental conflict of interests between Vietnam and China occurs. Yet, Russia retained its previous policy of neutrality regarding the matter.

*We have not sided with China, but we have never taken the side of Vietnam either. *Perhaps, it would be appropriate for the Russian side to take an initiative to resolve the conflict, for example, to suggest the three-sided development of offshore fields in the South China Sea. At least, it would show the political will of the Russian leadership to somehow help resolve the conflict. This would be a great initiative and a serious step. The Vietnamese always support Russian investments, especially in the energy sector, because Russia is a recognized energy giant. *Russian companies already have contracts to supply oil to Vietnam's first oil refinery.* Russia already has projects that work well in Vietnam.

"Most interestingly, few people remember that the countries of Southeast Asia, including Vietnam, are exporters of capital, particularly in Russia. There are joint projects to develop oil and gas fields in Russia, as well as Russian-Vietnamese joint oil and gas projects. Vietnamese companies and companies of other ASEAN countries want to work on the Russian food market.

"Most Russians often take Southeast Asia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand as a tourist destination. However, they actively export capital and have high-tech productions."

"What about the agreement on the *Cam Ranh base*? Does it show the development of military cooperation with Vietnam?"

"In Vietnam, it is firmly believed that there will be no foreign military bases on the territory of Vietnam. Yet, foreign vessels can enter Vietnamese territorial waters. Russia should not take Vietnam as a military foothold. The time of cooperation with the Soviet Union is long gone. *We should take Vietnam as a friendly power, for which we have to fight.* And not just for Vietnam - Russia should fight for Indonesia, Laos, Cambodia, taking into consideration the fact that our military-technical cooperation has been very successful.

Not that long ago, Russia built a third submarine for Vietnam. About 80-90 percent of Vietnamese arms are of Soviet and Russian production."

*Prepared by Yury Kondratyev*

*Pravda.Ru 
http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politics/08-01-2015/129478-russia_vietnam-0/*

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## Triumfvn

Carlosa said:


> My friend, can I ask you what's your opinion regarding what new weapon systems the second and third batch of Gepards will have? We've been wondering what do they have for the price to go to $350 million each.
> 
> We know that there is a anti-sub package and probably 2 Palmas in the back, but not much else is clear. There is a lot of speculation about maybe having air defense missiles, maybe Shtil-1, etc, but nothing is clear. Also maybe a reduct VLS. Can you make the picture a bit more clear for us?


I don't know exactly, but I think, beside the anti-sub ability, next pair of Gepard 3.9 will be armed with the same weapons (Palma airdefense system, Uran-E SSM system but cut the Sigma control system) to the first pair. $700 m contract may includes license to build the third pair in Vietnam or for all 4 ships (to be delivered 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019)! How do you think?

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> I don't know exactly, but I think, beside the anti-sub ability, next pair of Gepard 3.9 will be armed with the same weapons (Palma airdefense system, Uran-E SSM system but cut the Sigma control system) to the first pair. $700 m contract may includes license to build the third pair in Vietnam or for all 4 ships (to be delivered 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019)! How do you think?



Hmmmmm interesting possibilities there.

Well, I think 700 million is too cheap for all 4 ships since they have more weapon systems (the anti sub package at least) and inflation will always make a new price at least a bit higher, so I think that's not the reason, but a license fee for the third batch, that could be very possible.

I didn't understand when you wrote "but *cut* the Sigma control system", what did you mean by "cut"? Are you talking not using the Sigma-E CMS? What will they use?


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## Viet

_the most read article on the tabloid "wantchinatimes". I believe the author has wrong information about Vietnam Kilo. our subs don´t have 3M-14E land-attack missiles onboard (not yet approved by Russia), but 3M-54E antiship variant.
_







*Vietnam's Kilo-submarines to potentially blockade Spratly islands*


Staff Reporter

2014-12-27

09:18 (GMT+8)





_A Type 093 nuclear-powered attack submarine of PLA Navy. (Internet photo)_

Vietnam's six Kilo-class submarines purchased from Russia are very likely to be used to cut off the supply line of the People's Liberation Army's garrison at the disputed Spratly islands according to the Duowei News on Dec. 24.

China's nationalist tabloid the Global Times said that the People's Navy of Vietnam had already received three Kilo-class submarines from Russia. Vietnam's Kilo-class submarines are all equipped with 3M-14E Klub-S ballistic missiles. With an attacking range of 280 kilometers, the missile can reach Guangdong province's Zhanjiang, where China's South Sea Fleet headquarters is located. China's major naval facilities on Hainan island are also within reach. In addition, the Kilo-submarines can attack PLA supply ships with its GE2-01 radar-guided torpedoes.

The Global Times did say however that the PLA Navy has something up its sleeve to counter the new Vietnamese subs. Three Type 094 Jin-class ballistic missile submarines have already been sent to Hainan island just in case of a potential conflict over the Spratlys. China would also deploy its Type 093 Shang-class nuclear-powered attack submarines to the region if needed.

Despite the advantage the Vietnamese Kilos have in land attack and anti-ship capabilities, Taipei-based Asia Pacific Defense magazine said that they are not designed to fight enemy submarines.

Also, as China has already been using Russian subs for quite some time and has a strong knowledge concerning the Kilos weaknesses, the PLA Navy has a better chance of inflicting serious damage on the Vietnamese purchases should a battle take place, according to the Global Times.

Vietnam's Kilo-submarines to potentially blockade Spratly islands｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com


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## Viet

I just posted in another thread.

*ASNARO — Advanced Satellite with New System Architecture for Observation*

onboard: all-weather radar instrument to take images of the ground through clouds and darkness. Once in orbit, the satellites will operate autonomously.

weight 500kg each, designed by NEC Corp., one is optical and one is hyperspectral, X-band radar, highresolution camera (can resolve objects as small as a half-meter (20 inches) across), optical sensor, $0.6b each, financed by JP government´s ODA.

the first sattelite (assembled in JP) will be launched in 2017, the second (assembled in VN) for 2020. launch vehicle is a modified R-36M (Satan) missile, which was used as Soviet Unions´ ICBM carrying nuclear warheads. the launch will be conducted by Russian Strategic Rocket Forces. We can use the sattelites for civil purposes, OR to observe Chinese military installations and activities 






Japan, Vietnam Sign Deal for Two Radar Imaging Satellites - SpaceNews.com


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## Viet

What is Vietnam´s greatest achievement in manufacturing of defence equippments in 2014?
Answer:
*
Medium-Range Radar RV-02 against stealth fighters
*
The radar is derived from Belarus Vostok E and RV-01, operating on VHF band, developed by Vietnam´s Military Technical Institute and with assistance of Belarus. the Vostok E radar is able to detect stealth fighters such as the US F-117A Nighthawk from 74 kilometers nautical miles away in a jammed environment. In an unjammed environment, the distance can be increased to 350 kilometers. Even a more advanced stealth aircraft like the F-22, the Vostok E can detect the jet from 57 kilometers away and shoot them down with the S-300 surface-to-air missile. Vietnam made RV-02 has similar specs as Vostok E, reportely can detect stealth fighters from China including the J-20 and J-31.

Vietnam *RV-02 *radar installation


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## Triumfvn

2014 delivered 3 RV-02 systems, 2015-2020: 18 RV-02 will be delivered (3 systems per year)

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> 2014 delivered 3 RV-02 systems, 2015-2020: 18 RV-02 will be delivered (3 systems per year)



Triumfvn bro, are you in the MP forum? In that case, what's your name there?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Triumfvn bro, are you in the MP forum? In that case, what's your name there?


bro, I discovered you on the MP forum. Nice discussions here, some more info available than here in this thread. I will copy some info from the MP into this thread for discussions. Triumfvn and Silent Knight may possibly have insider information. Though, I´m not sure of anything.



Carlosa said:


> My friend, can I ask you what's your opinion regarding what new weapon systems the second and third batch of Gepards will have? We've been wondering what do they have for the price to go to $350 million each.
> 
> We know that there is a anti-sub package and probably 2 Palmas in the back, but not much else is clear. There is a lot of speculation about maybe having air defense missiles, maybe Shtil-1, etc, but nothing is clear. Also maybe a reduct VLS. Can you make the picture a bit more clear for us?


I think, in order to accomodate a new VLS, we need more space on the gepard. the ship needs to be longer in size. the new Gepard must be bigger and have double firepower, otherwise I don´t see why we pay $350 million each. but what system is it, this redut VLS for the Gepard? is it against ships or aircraft?

Currently we have 4k44B Redut-M, a mobile coastal defence system with P-35 missiles (Shaddock) against enemy maritime targets as vessels and military installations. here pics from the Vietnam #679 missile unit.

Specs:

Shoot the farthest distance: 300km
Last shot distance: 12km
Cruise altitude: 400-7,000m
final approaching to target: 24-100m
4 missiles can be fired in one go

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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> bro, I discovered you on the MP forum. Nice discussions here, some more info available than here in this thread. I will copy some info from the MP into this thread for discussions. Triumfvn and Silent Knight may possibly have insider information. Though, I´m not sure of anything.
> 
> 
> I think, in order to accomodate a new VLS, we need more space on the gepard. the ship needs to be longer in size. the new Gepard must be bigger and have double firepower, otherwise I don´t see why we pay $350 million each. but what system is it, this redut VLS for the Gepard? is it against ships or aircraft?
> 
> Currently we have 4k44B Redut-M, a mobile coastal defence system with P-35 missiles (Shaddock) against enemy maritime targets. here pics from the Vietnam #679 missile unit.
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Shoot the farthest distance: 300km
> Last shot distance: 12km
> Cruise altitude: 400-7,000m
> final approaching to target: 24-100m
> 4 missiles can be fired in one go



No, This is a new naval air defense system range up to 150km, check it out on internet.
But i can not post any link


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> No, This is a new naval air defense system range up to 150km, check it out on internet.
> But i can not post any link


okie, so it is something similar installed on Russia steregushchiy-class frigate? Redut SAM VLS is visible placed behind the 100 mm gun. this steregushchiy frigate has similar displacement and weapons onboard as our current gepard.

interesting: the article quotes there is a project 20385. the steregushchiy ship class will be larger, and has an eight-cell UKSK VLS launcher for SS-N-27 missiles (same on our Kilo subs). The Redut VLS will be expanded to 16 tubes.

Steregushchiy frigate programme makes progress, but faces obstacles - IHS Jane's 360


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## Thao Nguyen

yes. Redut is an sam system suit for light frigate or FAC, that why I always want to use it on Vietnamese ships

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## Viet

Many greetings from the wonderful Crimea!

Russia TV Rossiya 24 reports Vietnam subhunter helo Ka-28 being sent to Crimea/Sevastopol for maintenance, especially with Sonar system VGS-3 for detecting enemy subs.

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## 13 kumaon

Any Vietnam friend has any info regarding the upcoming visit of defence min. of Vietnam?


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> yes. Redut is an sam system suit for light frigate or FAC, that why I always want to use it on Vietnamese ships


well, to get redut onboard, the gepard needs to be re-designed or enlarged. either we relocate the naval cannon further to the bow (like the steregushchiy-class frigate), or we stretch the ship, make it longer. the latter is a better option. our actual gepard has no space for redut. see picture.

But all is a guessing game. I´m afraid we must wait until the new gepards arrive in vietnam 








13 kumaon said:


> Any Vietnam friend has any info regarding the upcoming visit of defence min. of Vietnam?


no report in vietnam media yet. I note indian media posts the news that VN defence minister will meet Manohar Parrikar later this week. I think we can expect more details in the next days.

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## 13 kumaon

Viet said:


> well, to get redut onboard, the gepard needs to be designed or enlarged. either we relocate the naval cannon further to the bow (like the steregushchiy-class frigate), or we stretch the ship, make it longer. the latter is a better option. our actual gepard has no space for redut. see picture.
> 
> View attachment 184044
> 
> 
> 
> no report in vietnam media yet. I note indian media posts the news that VN defence minister will meet Manohar Parrikar later this week. I think we can expect more details in the next days.


It was reported in indian media that it would be the 1st time defence min of both countries discuss defence relations bcz earlier defence talks was limited to defence secretary level,also your def. min is 2nd in communist party.


I hope relation between our country grow strong in future.

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## Carlosa

Viet bro, come over to MP man, no chinese trolls there.

SK is the admin for comcom, he works for the navy and he often travel overseas to the factories that make stuff for VN or that VN is considering. He knows what's going on, but he can only say so much as you know. There are good quality people in that forum, but sometimes they get lazy to post, I think we are changing that now.

I'm waiting for Triumfvn to tell me his name in that forum; I know that Soryu is also there and I think Boq77 is also there. Its nice to see kaku1 there.



Viet said:


> bro, I discovered you on the MP forum. Nice discussions here, some more info available than here in this thread. I will copy some info from the MP into this thread for discussions. Triumfvn and Silent Knight may possibly have insider information. Though, I´m not sure of anything.
> 
> 
> I think, in order to accomodate a new VLS, we need more space on the gepard. the ship needs to be longer in size. the new Gepard must be bigger and have double firepower, otherwise I don´t see why we pay $350 million each. but what system is it, this redut VLS for the Gepard? is it against ships or aircraft?
> 
> Currently we have 4k44B Redut-M, a mobile coastal defence system with P-35 missiles (Shaddock) against enemy maritime targets as vessels and military installations. here pics from the Vietnam #679 missile unit.
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Shoot the farthest distance: 300km
> Last shot distance: 12km
> Cruise altitude: 400-7,000m
> final approaching to target: 24-100m
> 4 missiles can be fired in one go





Thao Nguyen said:


> No, This is a new naval air defense system range up to 150km, check it out on internet.
> But i can not post any link



What's the name of that system?


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## Carlosa

Redut vls is for small size missiles such as KH-35, etc, while USSK vls gets used for large missiles like brahmos, club, etc.



Viet said:


> bro, I discovered you on the MP forum. Nice discussions here, some more info available than here in this thread. I will copy some info from the MP into this thread for discussions. Triumfvn and Silent Knight may possibly have insider information. Though, I´m not sure of anything.
> 
> 
> I think, in order to accomodate a new VLS, we need more space on the gepard. the ship needs to be longer in size. the new Gepard must be bigger and have double firepower, otherwise I don´t see why we pay $350 million each. but what system is it, this redut VLS for the Gepard? is it against ships or aircraft?
> 
> Currently we have 4k44B Redut-M, a mobile coastal defence system with P-35 missiles (Shaddock) against enemy maritime targets as vessels and military installations. here pics from the Vietnam #679 missile unit.
> 
> Specs:
> 
> Shoot the farthest distance: 300km
> Last shot distance: 12km
> Cruise altitude: 400-7,000m
> final approaching to target: 24-100m
> 4 missiles can be fired in one go

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## Carlosa

Kaku bro, don't think too much about the guy in MP that you argued with yesterday. He gets like that easily, just a bit aggressive, sometimes with me too. He is ok in general and he has good knowledge.



kaku1 said:


> Stupid question, but how to reply in MP? It saying my account doest have privilege to reply? :/


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Kaku bro, don't think too much about the guy in MP that you argued with yesterday. He gets like that easily, just a bit aggressive, sometimes with me too. He is ok in general and he has good knowledge.


Naa,,its fine, i just lost my temper there. He raised the issues which i never meant to.


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> What's the name of that system?


Redut SAM VLS, check Viet's previous post


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Viet bro, come over to MP man, no chinese trolls there.
> 
> SK is the admin for comcom, he works for the navy and he often travel overseas to the factories that make stuff for VN or that VN is considering. He knows what's going on, but he can only say so much as you know. There are good quality people in that forum, but sometimes they get lazy to post, I think we are changing that now.
> 
> I'm waiting for Triumfvn to tell me his name in that forum; I know that Soryu is also there and I think Boq77 is also there. Its nice to see kaku1 there.


YEAH I´m coming...Want to see new viet members there.

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> Redut SAM VLS, check Viet's previous post



No, I meant the new air defense system that has a 150 km range.


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## Viet

13 kumaon said:


> It was reported in indian media that it would be the 1st time defence min of both countries discuss defence relations bcz earlier defence talks was limited to defence secretary level,also your def. min is 2nd in communist party.
> 
> I hope relation between our country grow strong in future.


this one news may be of your special interest?

India´s GRSE has completed the design of a *140-ton fast patrol boats* for our Navy. Thanh may want to make a visit to the shipyard. From the previous news, Vietnam wants 10 highspeed vessels, that operate a quick reaction force near coast. India will deliver the first batch of 5 vessels. If we are satisfied with the boats performance, the second batch can come.


*Vietnam, India seek to cement defense ties*
Thanh Nien News
Thursday, January 15, 2015 14:00








Vietnam's Minister of Defense Phung Quang Thanh will visit India later this week for strategic talks to cement bilateral military ties, the Times of India reported.

The newspaper quotes government sources as saying Minister Thanh will chair a defense dialogue along with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar.

It will be Vietnam's first strategic defense dialogue with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government, which is seeking to expand military cooperation with the Southeast Asian country, according to the Times of India. Until now, similar dialogues have been chaired by defense secretaries from India and deputy defense ministers from Vietnam. The upcoming dialogue will be the first ministerial-level one.

Last year, India offered a US$100 million concessional line of credit (LoC) for Vietnam to acquire new naval vessels from India.

During PM Nguyen Tan Dung’s visit to India in October last year, his Indian counterpart Modi said that the two countries would move quickly to implement the LoC.

The two PMs said in a joint statement after their meeing that "freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea should not be impeded and called the parties concerned to exercise restraint, avoid threats or use of force".
Despite warnings from China, Indian oil and gas group ONGC Videsh and PetroVietnam signed an agreement last year for exploration of new oil and gas projects in Vietnam.

India’s Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd (GRSE) is finalizing the design of a series of *140-ton fast patrol boats* for the Vietnam Navy. This is the first time an Indian shipyard has been commissioned to design and build a warship to specifications formulated by a buyer country.

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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> No, I meant the new air defense system that has a 150 km range.


that is Redut, it can contain 3 type of SAM :
- 48N6E2 SAM range up to 200 km 
- 9M96D/9M96M/9M96E2 SAM range up to 120-150 km
- 9M96E SAM range up to 40-50 km

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## 13 kumaon

Viet said:


> this one news may be of your special interest?
> 
> India´s GRSE has completed the design of a *140-ton fast patrol boats* for our Navy. Thanh may want to make a visit to the shipyard. From the previous news, Vietnam wants 10 highspeed vessels, that operate a quick reaction force near coast. India will deliver the first batch of 5 vessels. If we are satisfied with the boats performance, the second batch can come.
> 
> 
> *Vietnam, India seek to cement defense ties*
> Thanh Nien News
> Thursday, January 15, 2015 14:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam's Minister of Defense Phung Quang Thanh will visit India later this week for strategic talks to cement bilateral military ties, the Times of India reported.
> 
> The newspaper quotes government sources as saying Minister Thanh will chair a defense dialogue along with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar.
> 
> It will be Vietnam's first strategic defense dialogue with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government, which is seeking to expand military cooperation with the Southeast Asian country, according to the Times of India. Until now, similar dialogues have been chaired by defense secretaries from India and deputy defense ministers from Vietnam. The upcoming dialogue will be the first ministerial-level one.
> 
> Last year, India offered a US$100 million concessional line of credit (LoC) for Vietnam to acquire new naval vessels from India.
> 
> During PM Nguyen Tan Dung’s visit to India in October last year, his Indian counterpart Modi said that the two countries would move quickly to implement the LoC.
> 
> The two PMs said in a joint statement after their meeing that "freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea should not be impeded and called the parties concerned to exercise restraint, avoid threats or use of force".
> Despite warnings from China, Indian oil and gas group ONGC Videsh and PetroVietnam signed an agreement last year for exploration of new oil and gas projects in Vietnam.
> 
> India’s Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd (GRSE) is finalizing the design of a series of *140-ton fast patrol boats* for the Vietnam Navy. This is the first time an Indian shipyard has been commissioned to design and build a warship to specifications formulated by a buyer country.


thanks, your def min looks like a war vet more than a minister.


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## Viet

An interesting article from the Bangkok Post. our Thai friend condemns Indonesia act of sinking neighbors´ fishing vessels, accusing the new elected Indo president of lying (overstating the cost of illegal fishing) and splitting ASEAN by his ego nationalistic policy. The author suggests Vietnam and Thai authorities should retaliate.

_*Indonesia is wrong* 
Published: 5 Jan 2015 at 06.00 | Viewed: 14,142 | Comments: 11Newspaper section: News The South China Sea, already one of the most tense areas of the world, became more dangerous last... 

Please credit and share this article with others using this link:Indonesia is wrong | Bangkok Post: opinion View our policies at Bangkok Post: Terms and conditions of use and Bangkok Post: Republishing policy © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved._

And what a coincidence: the Thai defence minister, General Prawit Wongsuwon just paid a visit to Vietnam. I assume he wants to discuss how both countries should response to indonesian provocation. Nice.

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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> this one news may be of your special interest?
> 
> India´s GRSE has completed the design of a *140-ton fast patrol boats* for our Navy. Thanh may want to make a visit to the shipyard. From the previous news, Vietnam wants 10 highspeed vessels, that operate a quick reaction force near coast. India will deliver the first batch of 5 vessels. If we are satisfied with the boats performance, the second batch can come.
> 
> 
> *Vietnam, India seek to cement defense ties*
> Thanh Nien News
> Thursday, January 15, 2015 14:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam's Minister of Defense Phung Quang Thanh will visit India later this week for strategic talks to cement bilateral military ties, the Times of India reported.
> 
> The newspaper quotes government sources as saying Minister Thanh will chair a defense dialogue along with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar.
> 
> It will be Vietnam's first strategic defense dialogue with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government, which is seeking to expand military cooperation with the Southeast Asian country, according to the Times of India. Until now, similar dialogues have been chaired by defense secretaries from India and deputy defense ministers from Vietnam. The upcoming dialogue will be the first ministerial-level one.
> 
> Last year, India offered a US$100 million concessional line of credit (LoC) for Vietnam to acquire new naval vessels from India.
> 
> During PM Nguyen Tan Dung’s visit to India in October last year, his Indian counterpart Modi said that the two countries would move quickly to implement the LoC.
> 
> The two PMs said in a joint statement after their meeing that "freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea should not be impeded and called the parties concerned to exercise restraint, avoid threats or use of force".
> Despite warnings from China, Indian oil and gas group ONGC Videsh and PetroVietnam signed an agreement last year for exploration of new oil and gas projects in Vietnam.
> 
> India’s Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd (GRSE) is finalizing the design of a series of *140-ton fast patrol boats* for the Vietnam Navy. This is the first time an Indian shipyard has been commissioned to design and build a warship to specifications formulated by a buyer country.



Let's hope you guys like our Ships

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## Viet

13 kumaon said:


> thanks, your def min looks like a war vet more than a minister.


yes, Thanh is a war vet, indeed. Many Generals in the army had fought during the war.







Echo_419 said:


> Let's hope you guys like our Ships


yes, it is just the beginning. I believe if we are happy, we will go for more capital ships as corvette, frigate or destroyer


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Kaku bro, don't think too much about the guy in MP that you argued with yesterday. He gets like that easily, just a bit aggressive, sometimes with me too. He is ok in general and he has good knowledge.


bro, I´m about the sign up to MP. How are your experiences with the site untill yet? I want to stay anonymous.


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bro, I´m about the sign up to MP. How are your experiences with the site untill yet? I want to stay anonymous.



I've been there much longer than in PDF. Higher quality people there in terms of their knowledge.
Very strict rules, no trolling. The thread is mainly about pics and discussing the pics, sometimes people complain if there is too much discussion. I think you'll like it, go for it.



Viet said:


> An interesting article from the Bangkok Post. our Thai friend condemns Indonesia act of sinking neighbors´ fishing vessels, accusing the new elected Indo president of lying (overstating the cost of illegal fishing) and splitting ASEAN by his ego nationalistic policy. The author suggests Vietnam and Thai authorities should retaliate.
> 
> _*Indonesia is wrong*
> Published: 5 Jan 2015 at 06.00 | Viewed: 14,142 | Comments: 11Newspaper section: News The South China Sea, already one of the most tense areas of the world, became more dangerous last...
> 
> Please credit and share this article with others using this link:Indonesia is wrong | Bangkok Post: opinion View our policies at Bangkok Post: Terms and conditions of use and Bangkok Post: Republishing policy © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved._
> 
> And what a coincidence: the Thai defence minister, General Prawit Wongsuwon just paid a visit to Vietnam. I assume he wants to discuss how both countries should response to indonesian provocation. Nice.



What the Indonesians don't say is that their fishing boats also fish in the other countries waters.



Thao Nguyen said:


> that is Redut, it can contain 3 type of SAM :
> - 48N6E2 SAM range up to 200 km
> - 9M96D/9M96M/9M96E2 SAM range up to 120-150 km
> - 9M96E SAM range up to 40-50 km



Reduct is only the name of the VLS system, is unrelated to the missiles used, it can also use anti-ship missiles like the KH-35. 

The missiles that you are mentioning belong to the naval version of S-300 / 400.

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## Viet

carlosa and friends, I registered at MP. pending on activation. my avatar is the user if you want to know my name there 

I like this Infantry weapon: cheap but effective.
Vietnam first ever made toy in 2014: *SPG-9T2 *produced by Z125 factory, firing rate 6 artillery shells*/*min, range max 1,300m, operated by 2 soldiers.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


>




Holy Moly ! He looks like one of my favorite singers, the great Toba Ichiro


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> carlosa and friends, I registered at MP. pending on activation. my avatar is the user if you want to know my name there
> 
> I like this Infantry weapon: cheap but effective.
> Vietnam first ever made toy in 2014: *SPG-9T2 *produced by Z125 factory, firing rate 6 artillery shells*/*min, range max 1,300m, operated by 2 soldiers.
> View attachment 184537
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 184538
> 
> 
> View attachment 184539
> 
> 
> View attachment 184540



That's great bro, I'll look for you there!

Yes, those anti tank rockets are pretty good and cheap as you said.


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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Holy Moly ! He looks like one of my favorite singers, the great Toba Ichiro


LOL...bro, I don´t see much of similarities.



Echo_419 said:


> Let's hope you guys like our Ships


in contrast to the previous news, not the defence minister, but his deputy Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh visits India. As I predicted, despite he is tight-lipped, he says VN Navy wants more than 4 vessels. The other remarkble note is General Vinh says Vietnam has "very high trust" with India. VN works on a MOD with India on defence industry and information technology. Nice.


Need closer strategic partnership with India: Vietnam - The Economic Times
By PTI | 18 Jan, 2015, 03.08PM IST





_Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh (right) and his Indian counterpart Shri R K Mathur, at the Headquarters of the Indian Ministry of National Defence in New Delhi._





_Vietnam has a long wish list from India which includes buying of at least four patrol boats, training of Vietnamese Air Force pilots to fly Sukhoi fighter jets. _

NEW DELHI: Drastic changes in regional security has created a need for closer bilateral strategic partnership with India, a top Vietnamese official said as the country beefs up its defence capabilities amid territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.

"Because of very drastic change in regional security, it has set the need for a closer cooperation between our two countries. Mostly in terms of strategic partnership," Vietnam's Vice Minister of Defence Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh said.

He did not explain what the drastic changes were but Vietnam is engaged in a confrontation with China in South China Sea over territorial sovereignty. Vietnam has a long wish list from India which includes buying of at least four patrol boats, training of Vietnamese Air Force pilots to fly Sukhoi fighter jets and even BrahMos missiles, among others.

The country wants to soon operationalise the $ 100 million Line of Credit (LoC) for defence procurement extended by India recently and is in the process of identifying a shipyard in the country to buy the patrol vessels.

The minister, who was here for strategic defence dialogue, underlined that Vietnam has* "very high trust"* with India on issues of national defence.

Talking about the Line of Credit, he said Vietnam is yet to decide on the number of vessels to be bought but said* it was not just four*. He said the vessels would be used to patrol its water and Exclusive Economic Zone.

Vietnam wants the vessel for surveillance off its coast and around its military bases in the Spratly island chain in the South China Sea where it is building a credible naval deterrent to China with Kilo-class submarines from Russia.

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## Viet

*Martime patrol aircraft: M28B Bryza (Poland)*

Specs: 2 aircraft in service since 2003, range 1,365km, speed 350km/h, sweeping radar (range 160 km), monitoring 30 targets at any given time, detecting enemy subs by sensing changes in the electronic magnetic field or infrared detectors (FLIR) or acoustic signals (bouy).

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> LOL...bro, I don´t see much of similarities.



I was thinking the same thing.



Viet said:


> *Martime patrol aircraft: M28B Bryza (Poland)*
> 
> Specs: 2 aircraft in service since 2003, range 1,365km, speed 350km/h, sweeping radar (range 160 km), monitoring 30 targets at any given time, detecting enemy subs by sensing changes in the electronic magnetic field or infrared detectors (FLIR) or acoustic signals (bouy).



No longer in service since one of those 2 aircraft crashed killing all the people on board. The VPA no longer trust that aircraft since the crash so its not used anymore.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No longer in service since one of those 2 aircraft crashed killing all the people on board. The VPA no longer trust that aircraft since the crash so its not used anymore.


oh...I did not know it. too bad. that means we will have to await the replacement. by the way, my account on MP is not activated yet by mod there. Don´t know when it is going to happen.


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## Viet

News of the day: the construction of the $262 million *Phan Thiet airport* starts. When completed, the airport not only hosts civil aircraft, but jet fighters as Su-27, Su-30 and transport aircraft as An-26. Expected completion: 2018. Phan Thiet will close the gap of available airports between Nha Trang and Saigon.

Previously the airport was planned for the period of between 2020 and 2030, now, with the tension increasing in the region, thing comes a bit sooner. Also, I assume, the airforce expects more muscles a bit sooner, more Su-30 and probably Su-35.







model of Phan Thiet airport

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## Viet

wants to know how is the current Vietnam relationship to the great powers as China and America?

This year marks 65th of establishing anniversary of Sino-Vietnamese ties. Here a visit of a grande dame, Li Xiaolin, president of the Chinese People's Association for Friendship with Foreign Countries. Never know that such a China club exists. Both sides try to smile. But one can sense at the picture, the atmosphere is close to the freezing point. 





And America?

Vietnam right now experiences critical shortage of blood. the new US ambassador to Vietnam, Ossius wants to set a sign. Asked why he donates blood, he says, he and the diplomatic staff consider themselves as a part of the Vietnamese community. Respect.

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## NiceGuy

> *Deputy Defence Minister welcomes Lockheed Marti leader*
> (VOV) - On January 20, Deputy Defence Minister Senior Lieutenant General Truong Quang Khanh received Lockheed Martin International Vice Executive President Patrick M. Dewar on a working visit to Vietnam.
> 
> The Vietnamese military official appreciated the role of Lockheed Martin in increased cooperation with Vietnamese companies, especially in the field of information technology and other projects in the country.
> 
> Mr. Patrick M. Dewar expressed Lockheed Martin’s desire to cooperate with the Vietnam Defence Ministry in areas of the group’s strength.
> 
> As a global security, aerospace, and information technology company, the majority of Lockheed Martin's business is with the US Department of Defense and the US federal government agencies.
> 
> In fact, Lockheed Martin is the largest provider of IT services, systems integration, and training to the US Government.
> 
> The remaining portion of Lockheed Martin's business is comprised of international government and some commercial sales of products, services and platforms.
> Deputy Defence Minister welcomes Lockheed Marti leader | VOV Online Newspaper


Yeah, VN may have a chance to buy some good jet fighters from Lockheed Martin


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> Yeah, VN may have a chance to buy some good jet fighters from Lockheed Martin


well, LM has a wide range of nice toys, from cruise missiles to radars to jet fighters to ICBM, but all are very expensive, especially F-35. So most of them are out of reach for us. Now. But hey, as everybody knows I am a fan of Aegis destroyers, and Lockheed Martin provides Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) system, the primary sea-based component of the U.S. missile defense system 

by the way, anybody knows where we will receive the 5 US made patrol boats, that are promised by John Kerry during his last visit to Vietnam last year?

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## Viet

The Commanding General of the US Army Pacific, General Vincent Brooks met with Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army, Senior Lieutenant General Do Ba Ty in Hanoi on January 19. 

The US Army Pacific´s headquarter is based in Hawaii. the US Army Pacific, the Marines Corps, Airforce and Navy are under the command of the joined U.S. Pacific Army. From Japan to Korea to China to Australia, all belong to operation areas of the US Pacific Army. I tried to figure out what they talked about, but failed. Besides usual rhetorics being announced, nothing is revealed.


Thượng tướng Đỗ Bá Tỵ tiếp Đại tướng Vincent Brooks, Tư lệnh Lục quân Thái Bình Dương Hoa Kỳ.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> well, LM has a wide range of nice toys, from cruise missiles to radars to jet fighters to ICBM, but all are very expensive, especially F-35. So most of them are out of reach for us. Now. But hey, as everybody knows I am a fan of Aegis destroyers, and Lockheed Martin provides Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) system, the primary sea-based component of the U.S. missile defense system
> 
> by the way, anybody knows where we will receive the 5 US made patrol boats, that are promised by John Kerry during his last visit to Vietnam last year?
> 
> 
> View attachment 185381



Sugoi!

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## Viet

from the comcom:

_* Vietnamese Gepard 3.9 scale model in Zelenodolsk Shipyard, the only visible difference is the hull-mounted sonar. However, the actual ships might have different weapon suites with better capabilities._

I am a bit disappointed of the "new" Gepard as it has the same size as the "old" one. I did hope the new Gepards will be bigger and longer (even every girl knows it ).


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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> from the comcom:
> 
> _* Vietnamese Gepard 3.9 scale model in Zelenodolsk Shipyard, the only visible difference is the hull-mounted sonar. However, the actual ships might have different weapon suites with better capabilities._
> 
> I am a bit disappointed of the "new" Gepard. it has the same size as the "old" one.
> 
> View attachment 185390



Why only Russian ? You guys need to diversify your surface fleet platforms , Vietnamese bro. Have you guys ever thought about the French LaFayette Class ?



Viet said:


> from the comcom:
> 
> _* Vietnamese Gepard 3.9 scale model in Zelenodolsk Shipyard, the only visible difference is the hull-mounted sonar. However, the actual ships might have different weapon suites with better capabilities._
> 
> I am a bit disappointed of the "new" Gepard as it has the same size as the "old" one. I did hope the new Gepards will be bigger and longer (even every girl knows it ).
> 
> View attachment 185390



Not good to eat Pho Tai gan sach, sometimes you gotta try Hu Tieu Bo Kho


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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Why only Russian ? You guys need to diversify your surface fleet platforms , Vietnamese bro. Have you guys ever thought about the French LaFayette Class ?
> 
> Not good to eat Pho Tai gan sach, sometimes you gotta try Hu Tieu Bo Kho


well, bro, there is a plan for a new 4,500 tons Frigate class for Vietnam Navy. Not French, but Dutch. Not much is revealed now but most likely some sort of *De-Zeven-Provinciën *class frigates. So for appetite see picture below. We are now at design stage. Such 6,500 tons frigates are built by Royal Schelde (Damen Shipyard). We have a great cooperation with the Dutch in building coast guard vessels.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> well, bro, there is a plan for a new 4,500 tons Frigate class for Vietnam Navy. Not French, but Dutch. Not much is revealed now but most likely some sort of *De-Zeven-Provinciën *class frigates. So for appetite see picture below. We are now at design stage. Such 6,500 tons frigates are built by Royal Schelde (Damen Shipyard). We have a great cooperation with the Dutch in building coast guard vessels.
> 
> View attachment 185392



Handsome ship ! Looking good, buddy...!

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## Viet

I wonder why we are so generous? Vietnam Army has promised a US$21.6 million package for the Royal Cambodia Army to build army buildings, purchase equipment, run training courses, and provide healthcare services. Here the new headquarter of the Cambodian Air Defense Command.

What will we get in return?

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> I wonder why we are so generous? Vietnam Army has promised a US$21.6 million package for the Royal Cambodia Army to build army buildings, purchase equipment, run training courses, and provide healthcare services. Here the new headquarter of the Cambodian Air Defense Command.
> 
> What will we get in return?



OT: How do you guys communicate ?Vietnamese and Cambodian are totally foreign languages to each other. Through English? or through translators ?


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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> OT: How do you guys communicate ?Vietnamese and Cambodian are totally foreign languages to each other. Through English? or through translators ?


translator. many cambodians speak viet language and viet settlers speak khmer.
actually cambodia eduction system is said being modelled after vietnam. it comes from vietnam hegomony in the country for a long period of times. From the beginning of the secondary, Vietnamese language study is compulsory.


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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> translator. many cambodians speak viet language and viet settlers speak khmer.
> actually cambodia eduction system is said being modelled after vietnam. it comes from vietnam hegomony in the country. From the beginning of the secondary, Vietnamese language study is compulsory.



interesting! i never knew that!


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## Viet

This baby is for unwanted guests:

Vietnam reportely expects to receive 3 battalions Iskander-E tactical balistic missiles (max range 280km) in a $500m deal, delivery probably 2015-2019. No suprise, some vietnamese officers are said to be sent to observe the upcoming Russia´s exercise with Iskander-M at Kapustin Yar.

Iskander is Russia response to NATO eastward expansion, and intended to use conventional warheads, but the missile is capable to carry a nuclear warhead (200kt), too.

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## Viet

I like it if our shipyards produce vessels like french bread. small speed boats produced by Z189 shipyard.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> I like it if our shipyards produce vessels like french bread. small speed boats produced by Z189 shipyard.




Very similar to the Swedish*Stridsbåt 90 H(alv*

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## Viet

the firepower of 3,200 active tanks can impress every enemy 
Vietnam Military Strength





A Scud balistic missile unit on an exercise. I can´t wait the day to see this toy to reach a range of 1,000km and more.

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## Carlosa

Lockheed Martin International Vice Executive President Patrick M. Dewar to visit Vietnam and bring some offers to the Vietnam People's Armed Forces. The exact detail is unknown at this time.

F-16's ?


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Lockheed Martin International Vice Executive President Patrick M. Dewar to visit Vietnam and bring some offers to the Vietnam People's Armed Forces. The exact detail is unknown at this time.
> 
> F-16's ?
> 
> View attachment 185654


The rumor about P3c started about 1 year ago, still waiting for them first, after that may be some second hand Oliver Harzard Perry, but F-16 ( very need) still a long way

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Lockheed Martin International Vice Executive President Patrick M. Dewar to visit Vietnam and bring some offers to the Vietnam People's Armed Forces. The exact detail is unknown at this time.
> 
> F-16's ?
> 
> View attachment 185654


most likely P-3 and C-130 for immediate need. F-16 and more probably later.


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## Viet

An article from a student of the University of Oxford. The author valuates Chinese military spending and posturing in the Asia Pacific as a danger for the region, Chinese "peaceful rise" is nothing more than a farce. America current policy fails. I read in a newspaper today, even, John McCain calls Barrack Obama is a weakling.

So actually nothing is new that he says, but the most important point I notice is when he calls on America to support Vietnam as a means to stop Chinese aggression. Well, we will see.




Samuel Ramani MPhil student, University of Oxford





*How the US Should Respond to Chinese Military Assertiveness in 2015*
Posted: 01/06/2015 12:15 pm EST Updated: 01/06/2015 12:59 pm EST






In his speech at the November 10, 2014 Asia-Pacific leaders summit, President Obama stated his intention to take relations with China to a "new level" and highlighted the importance of forging a durable strategic partnership with China to ensure its rising power does not destabilize the international system. Obama's speech was swiftly followed by what he described as a "milestone" carbon emissions deal between the U.S. and China. Despite this success, North Korea's alleged cyber-hacking and China's energy deal with Russia exacerbated tensions between the U.S. and China heading into 2015.

While economic interdependence has typically dominated the discourse around the future of relations between both great powers, recent developments indicate that the security dimension could define the U.S.-China bilateral relationship in 2015. The burgeoning security dilemma in the South Pacific triggered by rapid escalations in Chinese military spending, poses a significant challenge to American hegemony. The tendency of U.S. policymakers to vacillate between triumphalism and paranoia, in their handling of a newly assertive China, has inadvertently increased the risk of open conflict in the Asia-Pacific region.

*Evaluating the Threat Posed by Chinese Military Spending*

China's meteoric increases in defense spending continued in 2014, prompting a Pentagon report in June that claimed that the actual Chinese military budget exceeded $145 billion, a total far higher than official government statistics. The breakneck pace of China's development of unmanned drones caused particular alarm in the Pentagon's assessment. These concerns were given more credence by China's unveiling of an extremely precise laser weapon system that can shoot down light drones in low-altitude urban areas within five seconds of detection.

China's military buildup has alarmed the United States and caused China's main competitors in the Pacific (Japan, Vietnam and South Korea) to reciprocally bolster their military budgets. Much attention has also been drawn to the continued unwillingness of the Chinese government to acquiesce to U.S. demands for increased military budget transparency and the fact that Chinese defense spending has outstripped GDP growth. China's claims that inconsistencies in estimates of the size of its military budget can be explained by different categorization criteria for civilian and military spending have done little to assuage fears that China's "peaceful rise" could give way to belligerence in the South Pacific.

The U.S. has responded to increases in Chinese military spending by bolstering its own outlay of resources in the Pacific and the Pivot to Asia policy targets the transfer of 60 percent of U.S. naval assets to the Asia-Pacific by 2020. On the surface, diluting Chinese leverage in the Pacific through arms buildups appears effective. However, the Obama administration's military deterrence approach and contradictory rhetoric regarding whether China is a strategic partner or imminent threat, could jeopardize prospects for military cooperation with China. Obama's critical view of Chinese nationalist assertions in the Pacific, also contrasts markedly with his August 2014 depiction of China as an international security free rider that is dependent on benefits accrued from US hegemony.

The perception that Chinese military spending poses an imminent danger to security in the Pacific region also must be called into question in light of serious doubts surrounding the true extent of China's military power and preparedness for aggression. Levels of inflation in the Chinese defense sector are higher than in the overall economy and as the Chinese military enhances its technological sophistication, it has to divert its military budget increasingly to higher wage professional officers. The effectiveness of the Chinese military has also been undermined by pervasive corruption. While Xi Jinping's recent decision to centralize anti-corruption efforts under the umbrella of the Central Military Commission (CMC) is a positive step , abuse of power allegations levied against the former Deputy Head of Logistics and CMC Vice-Chairman indicate that the CCP's anti-corruption campaign is still in the embryonic stages.

*How to Prevent Conflict in the Pacific*

Ambiguities surrounding China's actual military strength and intentions should cause the US to devise a long-term grand strategy for the Pacific rather than continuing the current military deterrence strategy which is more effective in combatting an imminent threat.

In order to reduce the risk of open conflict in the Pacific, I propose a two-pronged strategy for U.S. policymakers to employ alongside the current approach of reciprocal military buildups.

The first prong is co-optive deterrence, the use of diplomatic overtures and the enhancement of recent military cooperation efforts, to discourage Chinese aggression in the Pacific region. The recent climate change deal demonstrates the potential for China and the U.S. to unite around solving a common problem, and this spirit of cooperation must extend to the security sphere. Revitalizing the cyber-security working group, which agreed in July 2013 to the cessation of the use of malicious proxies, would represent an initial step towards durable cooperation. The success of the Gulf of Aden counter-piracy joint naval drill also provides a foundation for intelligence sharing between the US and China that could extend to counter-terrorism and peacekeeping missions.

The alleged North Korean Sony hacking incident has been generally described as a setback for policymakers attempting to improve U.S.-China relations, but Jane Perlez of the _New York Times_, recently argued that the idiosyncratic nature of the North Korea's hacking and nuclear tests, which most likely occurred without China's consent, could cause China to cut economic support to the North Korean regime. While the complete implosion of North Korea would be against China's strategic interests, due to the potential for a massive influx of refugees, North Korea's belligerent behavior could trigger a tacit consensus between the U.S. and China that North Korea is a threat to regional stability. Such an agreement would reduce potential for polarization between Cold War-style U.S. and Chinese alliance blocs within the Pacific and advance the interests of peace.

The second prong of my proposed strategy to ameliorate tensions in the Pacific is sharpening the "Pivot to Asia" to Southeast Asian countries directly threatened by an aggressive China like Vietnam and the Philippines. The suspension of US military assistance to Thailand following the 2014 coup has caused Thailand to pivot strongly towards China with the announcement of a $12 billion rail project and a major agricultural purchase deal, which is a blow to US leverage in the region. The United States should counter China's overtures towards Thailand by consolidating a strategic partnership with Vietnam. Vietnam's recent support for the Philippines' challenge to Chinese territorial claims in the South China Sea represents a positive step towards achieving that goal. The US should also build on and coordinate with Japan's recent initiatives to build up the maritime military capacity of ASEAN states embroiled in territorial disputes with China.

Recent events and lingering ambiguities surrounding the extent of China's military power, intentions and preparedness for conflict should implore the United States to devise a long-term strategy in the Pacific that synthesizes arms buildups with expanded economic investment and alliance consolidation. However, the continued division in U.S. policymaking circles between China hawks and China cooperators renders the development of a coherent long-term grand strategy in the Pacific unlikely in the near future.

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## Viet

Did I mention John McCain in my yesterday post?

what a coincidence: Vietnam ambassador to the US, Phạm Quang Vinh met with the hardcore neocon US Senator John McCain in his office. Does anyone want to guess what they were talking about? No, not about vietnamese foods, I assume.





Hot news: KZKT-7428 tractors with T-72B3/90MS MBTs seen somewhere in Vietnam.
info thanks to MP viet members.
If one adds the mass of T-72 and 90, we ordered and planned, to the existing tank army, we will probably have 4,000 tanks, more than the rest of SE Asian armies, combined. Nice 















inside a TT400 coast guard vessel, equipped with a nice highspeed fire AK-630 cannon. a contract for building of 4 boats with Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> An article from a student of the University of Oxford. The author valuates Chinese military spending and posturing in the Asia Pacific as a danger for the region, Chinese "peaceful rise" is nothing more than a farce. America current policy fails. I read in a newspaper today, even, John McCain calls Barrack Obama is a weakling.
> 
> So actually nothing is new that he says, but the most important point I notice is when he calls on America to support Vietnam as a means to stop Chinese aggression. Well, we will see.



As a student, I bet that he couldn't see the depth of the world's geopolitics.

Until now, the US has barely recovered from the 2008 financial crash, so she has no real power to contain a rising China.

Everything is easier to be said than to be done, and McCain is not the person in charge, and of course he couldn't feel the same pressure as Obama is facing.

Obama also hopes that he can pump up the military expenditure up to 1 trillion in order to overshadow both China and Russia. However, if he is doing that, then the US economy will go back to red again.

Frankly, I hope those neocons could take in charge again after 2016, since this will only consolidate the China-Russia alliance.


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## Triumf

Vietnam's new passive sensor for acquiring stealth aircraft

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## biendong

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As a student, I bet that he couldn't see the depth of the world's geopolitics.
> 
> Until now, the US has barely recovered from the 2008 financial crash, so she has no real power to contain a rising China.
> 
> Everything is easier to be said than to be done, and McCain is not the person in charge, and of course he couldn't feel the same pressure as Obama is facing.
> 
> Obama also hopes that he can pump up the military expenditure up to 1 trillion in order to overshadow both China and Russia. However, if he is doing that, then the US economy will go back to red again.
> 
> Frankly, I hope those neocons could take in charge again after 2016, since this will only consolidate the China-Russia alliance.



He could be a adviser for US president in future.


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## Viet

Triumf said:


> Vietnam's new passive sensor for acquiring stealth aircraft


Vera-E?

re-edited. I just noticed that is a VN made passiv radar RTh, based on the principle of TDOA (Time difference of Arrival): detecting hidden objects (such as aircraft) by sensing differences of radar waves arrivals. a RTh installation consists of 4 radar wave receivers.

Việt Nam chế tạo thành công radar định vị mục tiêu thụ động | soha.vn

the control unit:

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As a student, I bet that he couldn't see the depth of the world's geopolitics.
> 
> Until now, the US has barely recovered from the 2008 financial crash, so she has no real power to contain a rising China.
> 
> Everything is easier to be said than to be done, and McCain is not the person in charge, and of course he couldn't feel the same pressure as Obama is facing.
> 
> Obama also hopes that he can pump up the military expenditure up to 1 trillion in order to overshadow both China and Russia. However, if he is doing that, then the US economy will go back to red again.
> 
> Frankly, I hope those neocons could take in charge again after 2016, since this will only consolidate the China-Russia alliance.


the deployment of the oil rig into our waters was one of your greatest blunders ever. you will regret soon. Obama is a lame duck, as he can´t do anything without the Congress. yeah, should the iron lady Hillary Clinton seize the power at the White House at next election, thing will become more interesting. I believe she likes Vietnam.


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## Triumfvn

Yes it is, RTh passive sensor.

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## ChineseTiger1986

biendong said:


> He could be a adviser for US president in future.



The green bug like him will only drive the US over the cliff.



Viet said:


> the deployment of the oil rig into our waters was one of your greatest blunders ever. you will regret soon. Obama is a lame duck, as he can´t do anything without the Congress. yeah, should the iron lady Hillary Clinton seize the power at the White House at next election, thing will become more interesting. I believe she likes Vietnam.



Well, the US has been greatly weakened since 2008, and do you expect Obama to act tougher?

The US now depends on Obamacare for their growth rate, and their employment purely depends on the service sector.

Hillary cannot do much either if this trend doesn't change.


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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The green bug like him will only drive the US over the cliff.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the US has been greatly weakened since 2008, and do you expect Obama to act tougher?
> 
> The US now depends on Obamacare for their growth rate, and their employment purely depends on the service sector.
> 
> Hillary cannot do much either if this trend doesn't change.


US is still strong enough to win the Oil war between US-Putin ( if Putin is not smart enough to realize that supporting VN to unify sub-Mekong region and to control Malacca strait is the only way to beat US sanction).


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## Viet

NiceGuy said:


> US is still strong enough to win the Oil war between US-Putin ( if Putin is not smart enough to realize that supporting VN to unify sub-Mekong region and to control Malacca strait is the only way to beat US sanction).


do you believe to "there are human lives on Mars"?
the likelyhood the US supports your dream comes true is close to Zero, similar to that lives exist on Mars.

Or is there something I don´t know?


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## kaku1

NiceGuy said:


> US is still strong enough to win the Oil war between US-Putin ( if Putin is not smart enough to realize that supporting VN to unify sub-Mekong region and to control Malacca strait is the only way to beat US sanction).


Control of Malacca Strait seriously? And how it do that? Explain.


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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Control of Malacca Strait seriously? And how it do that? Explain.


in niceguy dream

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## Viet

an interesting review from the PLA, the world in 2014 summarized with the 26 English letters. I cut short and leave only of 2: C and V. the self praise "China’s military casts a brilliant figure on the global stage." sounds weird and wrong in some neighbor countries ears, I guess. Anyone remembers of the oil rig?

Defense spokesman summarizes military hot spots in 2014 with 26 letters






File photo of Senior Colonel Yang Yujun, deputy director of the Information Office of the Ministry of National Defense (MND) of the People’s Republic of China (PRC) and spokesman of the MND of the PRC.

*C - China:* China’s military has made remarkable progress on all fronts in 2014, not only drawing close attention in the international community, but also receiving unanimous praises from the Chinese public. Focusing on building a powerful military, eliminating corruption and deepening reform, China’s military casts a brilliant figure on the global stage.
*V - Vietnam:* Vietnam intensified its military construction and its potential is not to be underestimated.

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## BoQ77

Rolldock Star heavy lift vessel, carrying the HQ-184 Hải Phòng submarine, has departed Singapore and is heading to Cam Ranh Naval Base. If everything goes according to plan, the Rolldock Star will arrive in Cam Ranh on January 27th and ready to unload the HQ-184 on January 28th.


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## Viet

X201 automobile factory begins to deliver heavy transporter Maz-537 with max capacity of 50 tonnes to military regions #7 and #9. the Maz-537 can carry the new tanks, T-72 (41.5t) and T-90 (46.5t). 

I am not a military expert, but I guess the T72/T90 will build the new backbone of VPA tank armies.

Bàn giao xe chở tăng cho các đơn vị - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

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## Viet

new toy for Vietnam Navy: a training sailing ship built by Polish shipyard Marine Projects Ltd. for future marine cadets. info thanks to viet members on MP forum. Scheduled delivery: Q3 2015.

Specs:
Length: 67m
Beam: 10m
Draught: 4m
Sail plan: 1,400 m2
Complement: 30 crew and 80 cadets







the ship will look much like the bigger version of the sistership ORP Iskra. Currently 30 Vietnamese sailors are being trained onboard.

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## Viet

Vietnam made infantry weapons








































and the mighty toy: Scud balistic missile.

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## Viet

the third Kilo may arrive tomorrow.

*Ngày mai, tàu ngầm Kilo Hải Phòng có thể về đến Cam Ranh*
Ly Vy | 27/01/2015 07:05

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## BoQ77

A Vietnam Air Force helicopter crashed in Ho Chi Minh City just minutes after take-off this morning, killing all four crew members, a military general has confirmed.
Lieutenant General Vo Van Tuan, Deputy Chief of Staff of the People's Army, said the Vietnam War era UH-1 Iroquois helicopter crashed in the city's Binh Chanh District during a training flight.
All four crew members on board were killed in the crash, he said.
News website VnExpress cited a district official as saying that the helicopter, well known as the Huey, crashed in a local farm.







LA US-made UH-1 Iroquois helicopter of Vietnam Air Force in a file photo taken in 2014.

It fell off the radar just 8 minutes after taking off at Tan Son Nhat Airport after 7 a.m.
“Around eight minutes after they took off, the air control station could no longer contact with the crew,” Tuoi Tre quoted general Tuan as saying.
Vietnam seized about 50 UH-1 "Hueys" from the US-backed South Vietnam army after the country's reunification in 1975. Local media reported last year that 14 of them were still operational.
Last July, a Russian-made Mi-171 chopper crashed on the outskirts of Hanoi during a training exercise, leaving 20 soldiers on board dead and another injured.


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## Viet

UH-1 is too old, too outdated, too risky when flying, similar to Mi-171. we should look for new choppers. urgently.


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## Viet

an event of Vietnamese-American Armed Forces Association (VAAFA)


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> an event of Vietnamese-American Armed Forces Association (VAAFA)
> 
> View attachment 187376
> View attachment 187377
> View attachment 187378
> View attachment 187379
> View attachment 187380
> View attachment 187381
> View attachment 187382
> View attachment 187383
> View attachment 187384
> 
> 
> View attachment 187385



how long ago is the picture taken? Cuz Green Alpha were not used anymore and moving on Dress blue a few years back...


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> how long ago is the picture taken? Cuz Green Alpha were not used anymore and moving on Dress blue a few years back...


the pictures were taken August 2010.
hey, can you introduce the dress code of US armed forces shortly?


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## kaku1

Viet said:


> Vietnam made infantry weapons
> 
> View attachment 187081
> 
> 
> View attachment 187078
> 
> 
> View attachment 187079
> 
> 
> View attachment 187083
> 
> View attachment 187086
> 
> 
> View attachment 187089
> 
> 
> View attachment 187091
> 
> 
> View attachment 187093
> 
> 
> and the mighty toy: Scud balistic missile.
> View attachment 187100


Vietnam still using Scud?


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## Viet

VAAFA



































kaku1 said:


> Vietnam still using Scud?


right now, it is our sole balistic missile system. yes, we continue to use it.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> the pictures were taken August 2010.
> hey, can you introduce the dress code of US armed forces shortly?



no problem


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## BoQ77

The third Kilo class sub delivered to Cam Ranh base today.

HQ-184 during sea trial


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## frequency

Viet said:


> VAAFA
> View attachment 187410
> View attachment 187411
> View attachment 187412
> View attachment 187413
> View attachment 187414
> View attachment 187415
> View attachment 187416
> View attachment 187417
> View attachment 187418
> View attachment 187419
> 
> 
> 
> right now, it is our sole balistic missile system. yes, we continue to use it.



Vietnam States of America - VSA baby!

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> the pictures were taken August 2010.
> hey, can you introduce the dress code of US armed forces shortly?


 
Hi there

Don't have access to a desktop yesterday (And I am in between laptop so I got stuck with a uber stupid laptop...) so I can post photo with it... Anyway, here is the Uniform Post with picture

Basically US Army runs a lot of different uniform, I think it's the most count. Currently there are 5 authorized Uniform not counting the PT Gear






*ASU - Army Service Uniform Class A.*

Class A means full uniform, usually worn in Winter but if an event is serious enough so you can't wear class B, then you wear Class A too.

ASU take over Army Dress Blue, Army Dress Green, Army Dress White and replace all 3 service uniform. Hence it now range from everyday wear to minor dinner function.

ASU consist of a Army Blue Jacket (Coat), white dress shirt, Blue Dress pants for Male and Blue Dress pants and Skirt for Female. Male wear with Boots, Oxford with pants, ties and bow ties and Female wear High Heels and nude Stockings with Skirt and Oxford with pants and neck tab with both. Both Brim Head and Beret are authorized Head Gear.

ASU comes into effect in 2014 but started issue in 2008





ASU - Army Service Uniform Class B

Class B is the summer variation of ASU, basically without the coat and neckties and neck tabs, uses for summer and informal functions

USMA-West Point Cadet Uniform






A grey Scale Uniform worn by the USMA cadet, it's uniform is lineage from 18 century's Army Battle Uniform and only authorised to wear by West Point Cadet.

Unisex, consist of a Grey Jacket, White pants and white sam browne belt. Worn with Oxford and authorised Headgear, authorized since 1800s

Army Mess Dress









Authorized since 1917 Mess Dress is for Formal official function only, only a few occasion are warranted to wear Mess Dress, but if you are an Officer, then this US$1000 uniform is not going anywhere, and the cost cannot be reimburse...

Mess Dress are for dinner function, it's authorization is on par with US Army Ball type event. Where a formal gown or tuxedo is normally worn (So, wedding, funeral and Private Function such as charity ball are allowed)

I don't ever see an Enlisted Version of Mess dress, but the paper say they do exist, however, for enlist, you can wear Green Dress Alpha or ASU Alpha as a substitution (then who will dumb enough o spend money on mess dress that you only wore once or twice a year??)

Mess Dress consist of a Formal Jacket, white Dress shirt, pants for male and ankle length Long Dress or Knee length Skirt for Female (No pants). Male wore oxford shoes with socks, female wore High Heels with Black Stockings. Miniature medal worn in place with service ribbon. No head Gear are authorized.

UCP ACU - Universal Camouflage Patten, Army Combat Uniform






Very common sight for US soldier, worn anywhere but Afghanistan, The ACU is a field uniform, which mean it only allow to wear out in the field or in barrack. unisex (With some alternation for Female) comes with trousers and shirt, worn with flat head or beret, also comes with EW (Extreme Weather ) Gear for temperamental protection

Authorized since 2005

OCP - OEF Camouflage Pattern 






Better known as Multicam, it is the same cutting and making of UCP/ACU with Multicam pattern instead, Authorized to use in Afghanistan only. Authorized since 2010

Dress Green Uniform - Class A, B and C






Dress Green was on the way out in 2008 and completely replaced by ASU in 2014, basically the same style with ASU, just that it's Green, been around since 1960s.

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## BoQ77

*Officials hail Vietnam, Japan defence ties*
January 28, 2015 by vietnamplus 






Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh(R) received Japanese Vice Defence Minister Tokuchi Hideshi during the latter’s working visit in Hanoi on January 28. (Photo:VNA)

Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh received Japanese Vice Defence Minister Tokuchi Hideshi during the latter’s working visit in Hanoi on January 28.

At the reception, Minister Thanh affirmed that defence cooperation between the two countries has reached a new level, matching the bilateral strategic partnership between Vietnam and Japan.

He added the two countries should continue exchanging visits, working together in dealing with mines left by the war, and sharing information and experience in coping with climate change and natural disasters.

In return, Tokuchi Hideshi asserted Japan has always valued its comprehensive ties with Vietnam, especially in national defence.

He said Japan hopes for stronger bilateral defence cooperation for mutual interests and for peace, stability and prosperity in the region and the world as a whole.-VNA

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Hi there
> 
> Don't have access to a desktop yesterday (And I am in between laptop so I got stuck with a uber stupid laptop...) so I can post photo with it... Anyway, here is the Uniform Post with picture
> 
> Basically US Army runs a lot of different uniform, I think it's the most count. Currently there are 5 authorized Uniform not counting the PT Gear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ASU - Army Service Uniform Class A.*
> 
> Class A means full uniform, usually worn in Winter but if an event is serious enough so you can't wear class B, then you wear Class A too.
> 
> ASU take over Army Dress Blue, Army Dress Green, Army Dress White and replace all 3 service uniform. Hence it now range from everyday wear to minor dinner function.
> 
> ASU consist of a Army Blue Jacket (Coat), white dress shirt, Blue Dress pants for Male and Blue Dress pants and Skirt for Female. Male wear with Boots, Oxford with pants, ties and bow ties and Female wear High Heels and nude Stockings with Skirt and Oxford with pants and neck tab with both. Both Brim Head and Beret are authorized Head Gear.
> 
> ASU comes into effect in 2014 but started issue in 2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASU - Army Service Uniform Class B
> 
> Class B is the summer variation of ASU, basically without the coat and neckties and neck tabs, uses for summer and informal functions
> 
> USMA-West Point Cadet Uniform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A grey Scale Uniform worn by the USMA cadet, it's uniform is lineage from 18 century's Army Battle Uniform and only authorised to wear by West Point Cadet.
> 
> Unisex, consist of a Grey Jacket, White pants and white sam browne belt. Worn with Oxford and authorised Headgear, authorized since 1800s
> 
> Army Mess Dress
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Authorized since 1917 Mess Dress is for Formal official function only, only a few occasion are warranted to wear Mess Dress, but if you are an Officer, then this US$1000 uniform is not going anywhere, and the cost cannot be reimburse...
> 
> Mess Dress are for dinner function, it's authorization is on par with US Army Ball type event. Where a formal gown or tuxedo is normally worn (So, wedding, funeral and Private Function such as charity ball are allowed)
> 
> I don't ever see an Enlisted Version of Mess dress, but the paper say they do exist, however, for enlist, you can wear Green Dress Alpha or ASU Alpha as a substitution (then who will dumb enough o spend money on mess dress that you only wore once or twice a year??)
> 
> Mess Dress consist of a Formal Jacket, white Dress shirt, pants for male and ankle length Long Dress or Knee length Skirt for Female (No pants). Male wore oxford shoes with socks, female wore High Heels with Black Stockings. Miniature medal worn in place with service ribbon. No head Gear are authorized.
> 
> UCP ACU - Universal Camouflage Patten, Army Combat Uniform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very common sight for US soldier, worn anywhere but Afghanistan, The ACU is a field uniform, which mean it only allow to wear out in the field or in barrack. unisex (With some alternation for Female) comes with trousers and shirt, worn with flat head or beret, also comes with EW (Extreme Weather ) Gear for temperamental protection
> 
> Authorized since 2005
> 
> OCP - OEF Camouflage Pattern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better known as Multicam, it is the same cutting and making of UCP/ACU with Multicam pattern instead, Authorized to use in Afghanistan only. Authorized since 2010
> 
> Dress Green Uniform - Class A, B and C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dress Green was on the way out in 2008 and completely replaced by ASU in 2014, basically the same style with ASU, just that it's Green, been around since 1960s.


oh great info. the dress code is nice, especially the West Point Cadet Uniform, though I find blue trouser over dark shirt somehow inept. there are some nice gadgets available as well for the soldiers and commanders. how about dress code of army commanders? when Luong becomes Brigade General, he gets a commander belt.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> oh great info. the dress code is nice, especially the West Point Cadet Uniform, though I find blue trouser over dark shirt somehow inept. there are some nice gadgets available as well for the soldiers and commanders. how about dress code of army commanders? when Luong becomes Brigade General, he gets a commander belt.
> View attachment 187670
> View attachment 187671
> View attachment 187672



not aware of any belt wearing American General, probably becuz of his division lineage (The Old Cavalry) well, I was trained as a cavalrymen but I wasn't in ANY cavalry division lol

Like the 3rd Infantry can wear the French Fourragere or the Ranger with Sand Beret and paracord

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## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> *Officials hail Vietnam, Japan defence ties*
> January 28, 2015 by vietnamplus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh(R) received Japanese Vice Defence Minister Tokuchi Hideshi during the latter’s working visit in Hanoi on January 28. (Photo:VNA)
> 
> Vietnamese Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh received Japanese Vice Defence Minister Tokuchi Hideshi during the latter’s working visit in Hanoi on January 28.
> 
> At the reception, Minister Thanh affirmed that defence cooperation between the two countries has reached a new level, matching the bilateral strategic partnership between Vietnam and Japan.
> 
> He added the two countries should continue exchanging visits, working together in dealing with mines left by the war, and sharing information and experience in coping with climate change and natural disasters.
> 
> In return, Tokuchi Hideshi asserted Japan has always valued its comprehensive ties with Vietnam, especially in national defence.
> 
> He said Japan hopes for stronger bilateral defence cooperation for mutual interests and for peace, stability and prosperity in the region and the world as a whole.-VNA




Good !


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> not aware of any belt wearing American General, probably becuz of his division lineage (The Old Cavalry) well, I was trained as a cavalrymen but I wasn't in ANY cavalry division lol
> 
> Like the 3rd Infantry can wear the French Fourragere or the Ranger with Sand Beret and paracord


yes, old school. Luong is deputy commander of the 1st calvary division. look at the insignia on his arm. he is a ranger. you were a platoon leader, if I recall? what dress code do you have?







Nihonjin1051 said:


> Good !


there is rumour/report vietnam sends a delegation to Mitsubishi company to talk on the F-2 jet.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> yes, old school. Luong is deputy commander of the 1st calvary division. look at the insignia on his arm. he is a ranger. you were a platoon leader, if I recall? what dress code do you have?
> View attachment 187757
> 
> 
> 
> there is rumour/report vietnam sends a delegation to Mitsubishi company to talk on the F-2 jet.



lol dress code is quite lax in the field unless you have some big shot visiting you, mostly in the field you will see your Captain the most and he or she dictate how you dress, and my Captain was not as straigh either lol

Back stateside, thats anlther story, depending on the job or posting you get, you can wear ACU alots or you wear dress uniform alot. What basically the different is dress uniform usually in place in an office, more of an indoor posting and you wear a lot of UCP when you are out and about

I am airborne and ranger qualified so in my uniform I will have both tab on my left shoulder, And i served with the 82nd and 3rd infantry division so they would be my insignia on either side, i also wear a red beret instead of a black one as i was in the airborne...

lol

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## Viet

a great picture of the "Haiphong".

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## Viet

For the first time ever, Vietnam made landing ship *ST-2300*, transport capacity of 80 tonnes, built by Hải Sơn shipyard:

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> For the first time ever, Vietnam made landing ship *ST-2300*, transport capacity of 80 tonnes, built by Hải Sơn shipyard:



The last picture is a project 21820 "Dyugon" landing craft.

Does it means the ST-2300 use air-cavity while moving? Like Dyugon?


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## frequency

Viet said:


> For the first time ever, Vietnam made landing ship *ST-2300*, transport capacity of 80 tonnes, built by Hải Sơn shipyard:
> 
> 
> View attachment 188077
> View attachment 188078
> View attachment 188079
> View attachment 188081
> View attachment 188082
> View attachment 188084



The steel plate on the ship is warped due to material not being normalized. It's a process in which it heats up the steel to release the strain of the material after weld has been put in place.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> For the first time ever, Vietnam made landing ship *ST-2300*, transport capacity of 80 tonnes, built by Hải Sơn shipyard:
> 
> 
> View attachment 188077
> View attachment 188078
> View attachment 188079
> View attachment 188081
> View attachment 188082
> View attachment 188084



Viet, look at the last picture, the superstructure of the ship is totally different to the other pics, that can't be the same ship.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Viet, look at the last picture, the superstructure of the ship is totally different to the other pics, that can't be the same ship.


sharp eyes. you are right. the last pic is a "Dyugon" landing craft.
Tàu đổ bộ ST-2300: Thành tựu quốc phòng Việt Nam



Barmaley said:


> The last picture is a project 21820 "Dyugon" landing craft.


thanks for the info.


Barmaley said:


> Does it means the ST-2300 use air-cavity while moving? Like Dyugon?


not sure. I believe it has conventional engine.
ST-2300 specs: 135 tonnes, 12 knots, 60 operations hours


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## Viet

46 days since depart from St. Petersburg (Russia), the Kilo HQ-184 Hải Phòng finally arrives Cam Ranh bay. two more Kilos HQ-185 Da Nang and HQ-186 Khanh Hoa are expected to be delivered this year.


























29/1 Hà Nội, Sen. Lt. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh received a japanese delegation, led by Tokuchi Hideshi, deputy defence minister. talks on bilateral and regional topics. during his stay, Hideshi visited some units of the vietnamese army.






in the future, the U.S. and Vietnam will focus on cooperation between the two's coast guards, says the US Ambassador to Vietnam, Ted Osius.








Pham Thu Hang, deputy spokesperson of the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, says during a a press conference in Hanoi, Vietnam and the US wants to strengthen security and defense cooperation.

I would like to say it is overdue. high noon.
*



*

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## Viet

2S3 Akatsiya light howitzer with 152mm cannon of the VPA.

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## Viet

_Interesting: the new openness of the Army. the largest asset is Viettel, the largest mobile operator in Vietnam, with 80,000 employees, $10b revenue and $2b profit._

Industry
*Vietnam reveals the significant financial scope of military-run businesses*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
26 January 2015


The Vietnam Ministry of National Defence (MND) revealed details about the significant financial scope of the businesses owned and managed by the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) in a statement published by the MND on 26 January.

It is thought to be the first time such details have been disclosed by the MND and is reflective of Vietnam's increasing efforts to enhance transparency.

The MND said the VPA businesses - involved in a range of activities from defence production to engineering and banking - posted double-digit financial growth in 2014 while continuing to undergo extensive restructuring.

The MND said its military businesses posted combined annual revenues of VND292 trillion (USD13.7 billion), a year-on-year increase of 18%.


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## Viet

Vietnam Air Defence: S-300 surface to air missile with 96L6E acquisition radar, that usually comes with S-400.

96L6E, operating in C-band, outstanding advantage is the ability of detection of tactical ballistic missiles. It can monitor 100 targets simultaneously, maximum range 300 km.

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## Triumfvn

Vietnamese People's Air & Air Defense forces go straight to heaven
soha.vn/quan-su/tuong-lai-nao-cho-mig-21-trong-khong-quan-viet-nam-20150205231532722.htm



Viet said:


> Vietnam Air Defence: S-300 surface to air missile with 96L6E acquisition radar, that usually comes with S-400.
> 
> 96L6E, operating in C-band, outstanding advantage is the ability of detection of tactical ballistic missiles. It can monitor 100 targets simultaneously, maximum range 300 km.
> View attachment 189278
> View attachment 189279
> View attachment 189280
> 
> View attachment 189282


What do you think about SAM-P/T (Aster-30) for Vietnam. Some officers just finished training course from France

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## Viet

Triumfvn said:


> Vietnamese People's Air & Air Defense forces go straight to heaven
> soha.vn/quan-su/tuong-lai-nao-cho-mig-21-trong-khong-quan-viet-nam-20150205231532722.htm


ahem...I believe your translation is a bit unsharp, it should be "what will be the replacement for our aging MIG-21s?"
well, I suggest we buy more Su-30s.


Triumfvn said:


> What do you think about SAM-P/T (Aster-30) for Vietnam. Some officers just finished training course from France


I think it is always a good idea to have a second weapons provider than just Russia. Besides, Aster-30 can shoot down enemy tactical balistic missiles.

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> What do you think about SAM-P/T (Aster-30) for Vietnam. Some officers just finished training course from France



Looks like things are progressing well towards the 4500 ton frigates, but I think the Barak 8 / Barak ER is also a nice alternative to the Aster 30. 

Furthermore, the Barak 8, if a land version is used, can integrate really nicely with the coming Spyder air defense system and the new Israeli radars that VN already bought. So it would also make sense to have it for the new frigates.

Have Vietnam already made the final decision about the Aster 30?

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Looks like things are progressing well towards the 4500 ton frigates, but I think the Barak 8 / Barak ER is also a nice alternative to the Aster 30.
> 
> Furthermore, the Barak 8, if a land version is used, can integrate really nicely with the coming Spyder air defense system and the new Israeli radars that VN already bought. So it would also make sense to have it for the new frigates.
> 
> *Have Vietnam already made the final decision about the Aster 30*?


bro, I think the decision is made, otherwise why should we have sent our people to training?

do you have more info on the progress of 4,500 frigate project?

Not sure what the navy has in mind, I guess Barak system is reserved for later generation of warships, e.i. destroyers. Aster-30 is probably for our coming fleet of 4,500 tonnes frigates, and so you see my dream of aegis like destroyers comes earlier than expected. here as appetizer an image of a French horizon class frigate with aster-30.


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## Viet

Vietnam Coast Guard

old, decommissioned by the japanese coast guard but after refubished and equipped with modern navigation, the 6 patrol boats will serve for another decades. all are parts of $5m donation of the government of japan.

this boat is 56.7m long, 725 tonnes, speed 12.5 kn; assembled in 1991 Japan.






earlier picture of the boat class

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bro, I think the decision is made, otherwise why should we have sent our people to training?
> 
> do you have more info on the progress of 4,500 frigate project?
> 
> Not sure what the navy has in mind, I guess Barak system is reserved for later generation of warships, e.i. destroyers. Aster-30 is probably for our coming fleet of 4,500 tonnes frigates, and so you see my dream of aegis like destroyers comes earlier than expected. here as appetizer an image of a French horizon class frigate with aster-30.



Well, a training course could also be just a way to learn more about the weapon system before making a decision.

No, no new info about the 4500 ton frigates, but I doubt that there will be destroyers after those, I think those heavy frigates fulfill the destroyer role.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> UH-1 is too old, too outdated, too risky when flying, similar to Mi-171. we should look for new choppers. urgently.



The later news reveal that the UH1 was under maintenance in USA in 2012 which is unknown to me before. And UH1 fleet was abandoned until 1995 when they started to fly again, coincidentally to the beginning of new relation between Vietnam and USA, 20 years ago. 
Something still flowing fluently under the surface which sometime we can't estimate.

Recently, it sprung to mind that delivery of 5 patrol speedboat done confirmed by US official, while we still have no any photo on them. It's totally different to the delivery of Haiphong submarine.

I am waiting for other pleasant surprises from the relation between Vietnam and USA, and US allies, especially after arm ban lift, everything changes rapidly after that.

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## Thao Nguyen

BoQ77 said:


> The later news reveal that the UH1 was under maintenance in USA in 2012 which is unknown to me before. And UH1 fleet was abandoned until 1995 when they started to fly again, coincidentally to the beginning of new relation between Vietnam and USA, 20 years ago.
> Something still flowing fluently under the surface which sometime we can't estimate.
> 
> Recently, it sprung to mind that delivery of 5 patrol speedboat done confirmed by US official, while we still have no any photo on them. It's totally different to the delivery of Haiphong submarine.
> 
> I am waiting for other pleasant surprises from the relation between Vietnam and USA, and US allies, especially after arm ban lift, everything changes rapidly after that.


This aid just 18 Mil $, so can not be big ship, 99% can be this type : Fast Respond Boat. 1 boat cost 3,6 Mil, 5 will be 18Mil, same as the fund report before

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> The later news reveal that the UH1 was under maintenance in USA in 2012 which is unknown to me before. And UH1 fleet was abandoned until 1995 when they started to fly again, coincidentally to the beginning of new relation between Vietnam and USA, 20 years ago.
> Something still flowing fluently under the surface which sometime we can't estimate.
> 
> Recently, it sprung to mind that delivery of 5 patrol speedboat done confirmed by US official, while we still have no any photo on them. It's totally different to the delivery of Haiphong submarine.
> 
> I am waiting for other pleasant surprises from the relation between Vietnam and USA, and US allies, especially after arm ban lift, everything changes rapidly after that.



I'm also waiting for other pleasant surprises, cough..... F......16.......cough, cough.......

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, a training course could also be just a way to learn more about the weapon system before making a decision.


if we want to learn about new weapon systems, then we go to exhibitions. but if we send our people to train on Aster-30, then the likelyhood is high, we (will) have it.
I once work a engineer for a internet company, operating routers and switches of Cisco systems. the firm sent me a for week to San Francisco for training. the company would not have sent me at all to America, if we did not possess Cisco equippments.


Carlosa said:


> No, no new info about the 4500 ton frigates, but I doubt that there will be destroyers after those, I think those heavy frigates fulfill the destroyer role.


since ancient times, vietnamese military doctrine is to get on par with chinese. I don´t know how our navy could handle the chinese navy without destroyers? heavy frigates are good, but they can only be the beginning. the PLA begins to build up with fleets of destroyers and carriers, how can we stop them? with the current assets we have no chance.


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## Viet

I hope we will not wait too long until the navy gets the first destroyers. but meanwhile hey we have here a vietnamese on a destroyer: Hung Ba Le, once the commander of USS Lassen, a guided missile 9,200 tons destroyer.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> since ancient times, vietnamese military doctrine is to get on par with chinese. I don´t know how our navy could handle the chinese navy without destroyers? heavy frigates are good, but they can only be the beginning. the PLA begins to build up with fleets of destroyers and carriers, how can we stop them? with the current assets we have no chance.



Missile technology. to Vietnam bigger warships only for durable all weather operation at sea. They are not there to be targets and manage hardly to protect themselves.

Sea missile launching platforms or ASW are the name. Destroyers stand for providing more effective air defense ability to aircraft carrier groups.

DF-21A was there as China anti access weapon. But that's not perfect.
Antiship coastal cruise missiles with 500-600 kilometer of range or 300 kilometers of range launched from air are key.

No country has enough destroyers for oversaturated attack by cruise missiles. It's cheaper too.

N. Korea own long range ballistic missiles but this is the latest development of them ( which Vietnam following for long time )
_
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un was on-site to observe the successful testing of the “ultra-precision” rocket conducted by the country’s East Sea fleet, the North’s official Korean Central News Agency said. The official Rodong Sinmunnewspaper published front-page photos of Kim watching a missile being fired off a naval vessel, although the state media outlets did not mention the time or location of the exercise.

Yang Uk, a Seoul-based security expert and an adviser to South Korea’s Navy, said the North Korean missile looked similar to Russia’s KH-35 anti-ship missile, which has a range of about 130-140 kilometres (81-87 miles) and is capable of travelling at high speeds while staying close to the sea’s surface.

North Korea began importing KH-35 missiles in the mid-2000s and the test-firing suggests that the country has succeeded in producing missiles of similar design domestically, Mr. Yang said._


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## Viet

destroyer "Panteleyev" along with 2 supplement ships of Russia Pacific Fleet is scheduled to visit Cam Ranh bay on 14/2.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Missile technology. to Vietnam bigger warships only for durable all weather operation at sea. They are not there to be targets and manage hardly to protect themselves.
> 
> Sea missile launching platforms or ASW are the name. Destroyers stand for providing more effective air defense ability to aircraft carrier groups.
> 
> DF-21A was there as China anti access weapon. But that's not perfect.
> Antiship coastal cruise missiles with 500-600 kilometer of range or 300 kilometers of range launched from air are key.
> 
> No country has enough destroyers for oversaturated attack by cruise missiles. It's cheaper too.
> 
> N. Korea own long range ballistic missiles but this is the latest development of them ( which Vietnam following for long time )
> _
> North Korean leader Kim Jong Un was on-site to observe the successful testing of the “ultra-precision” rocket conducted by the country’s East Sea fleet, the North’s official Korean Central News Agency said. The official Rodong Sinmunnewspaper published front-page photos of Kim watching a missile being fired off a naval vessel, although the state media outlets did not mention the time or location of the exercise.
> 
> Yang Uk, a Seoul-based security expert and an adviser to South Korea’s Navy, said the North Korean missile looked similar to Russia’s KH-35 anti-ship missile, which has a range of about 130-140 kilometres (81-87 miles) and is capable of travelling at high speeds while staying close to the sea’s surface.
> 
> North Korea began importing KH-35 missiles in the mid-2000s and the test-firing suggests that the country has succeeded in producing missiles of similar design domestically, Mr. Yang said._


I don´t believe to N. Korea propaganda. they usually tell too much bullshit. KH-35 missiles fly subsonic, can hardly defeat korean destroyers.

you are naive. you assume we can fire on chinese warships, while they will sit still and enjoy the fireworks.
I´m talking on how to protect our surface warships against chinese antiship missiles? the current air defence installed on the Molynia and Gepards are ways too weak, so in case of a confrontation, we cannot afford to send them out.

what we need is multirole destroyers and frigates, that provide protection to our surface warships.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> what we need is multirole destroyers and frigates, that provide protection to our surface warships.



Pound per pound, i recommend the Sachsen class frigate of the German Navy.

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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Pound per pound, i recommend the Sachsen class frigate of the German Navy.
> 
> View attachment 191547


700 million euro a piece.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> since ancient times, vietnamese military doctrine is to get on par with chinese. I don´t know how our navy could handle the chinese navy without destroyers? heavy frigates are good, but they can only be the beginning. the PLA begins to build up with fleets of destroyers and carriers, how can we stop them? with the current assets we have no chance.



Ancient times are a bit different than present times. The Vietnamese navy *CAN'T* go par on par with the chinese navy. The Vietnamese navy can only play a defensive role. If Vietnam's economy were to be 20 times the size of the present economy, then Vietnam can try to go on a par with china.

Destroyers will not make much difference at all, they will just be big targets that the chinese will love to sink.

Vietnam needs a balanced navy and a heavy frigate (4500 tons) tailored for the air defense role with Aster 15 / 30, but still multi role with full ASW capability fits very well in that balanced navy. It will provide fleet air defense. It will probably cost $500-600 million.

Destroyers are mainly for air defense these days and they are usually multirole. I fail to see what new capability a destroyer will bring with respect to the heavy frigate other than some extra VLS cells. A destroyer is a duplication once you have the heavy frigates. An expensive duplication that will cost at least 1 billion, so what's the point?

Air defense destroyers are for fleet air defense in distant waters (power projection) or for base / land air defense as the Japanese AEGIS destroyers are often used to protect Japanese territory from ballistic missiles. Vietnam has S-300/400 for that role which is better and cheaper. Fleet air defense will be done by the heavy frigates. Power projection far from home is something that VN does not need. So what's the point for those destroyers? What are they going to do?

Vietnam deploys 1 destroyer, the chinese deploy 10.
What about the chinese cruisers and aircraft carriers? Is Vietnam also going to build those types?

China is building the Type 55 cruiser, that thing is a monster, even bigger than American cruisers.
How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against them?
How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against chinese aircraft carrier battle groups?
How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against the many chinese subs running around (around 60)?
How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against a heavy air attack with missile saturation?

Vietnamese destroyer = Nice big, juicy target for the chinese.

Vietnam has limited resources so it needs to spend the money wisely on weapon systems that have the most bang for the dollar. That means aircraft, missiles and subs. Period.

In the battle between anti ship missiles and a ship's air defenses, the missile wins. Supersonic missiles are the way to go, they are difficult to intercept. A saturation missile attack will *ALWAYS DESTROY ANY SHI*P. An air defense destroyer can only intercept so many missiles at the same time and furthermore, what about when it runs out of missiles?

A SU-34 with 3 Brahmos missiles (later with Brahmos-2 hypersonic) is the way to go.
SU-34=$35 million plus 3 Brahmos at 5 million each for the latest version = $50 million.
That $50 million package can sink your billion dollar destroyer.

Aircraft with the right missiles can challenge the chinese navy. Vietnamese surface ships can only be useful in a defensive role or against a light threat. If the chinese navy sends a whole fleet to the Spratlys, the Viet navy has to stay in port, otherwise it will not survive.

Surface ships can't hide. In a conflict, chinese satellites will monitor the Viet naval bases and will track any ship that leaves port. China has good stand off targeting and launching platforms such as the H-6 bombers armed with long range cruise missiles (2000 km+).

Submarines on the other hand, can challenge the chinese navy. The $300 million Kilo can sink anything including aircraft carriers. Old chinese subs have surfaced next to american aircraft carriers totally undetected in the past.

Unlike surface ships, subs can hide, they are very difficult to detect.

That's why I say that the money needs to go into aircraft, missiles and subs, not destroyers.



BoQ77 said:


> Missile technology. to Vietnam bigger warships only for durable all weather operation at sea. They are not there to be targets and manage hardly to protect themselves.
> 
> Sea missile launching platforms or ASW are the name. Destroyers stand for providing more effective air defense ability to aircraft carrier groups.
> 
> DF-21A was there as China anti access weapon. But that's not perfect.
> Antiship coastal cruise missiles with 500-600 kilometer of range or 300 kilometers of range launched from air are key.
> 
> No country has enough destroyers for oversaturated attack by cruise missiles. It's cheaper too._._



Very correct, good to see that someone understands.

Once Vietnam develops standoff surveillance and targeting capabilities (satellites, etc), then can use land based long range missiles (up to 1000 km) and it can target anything in the Spratlys.
Armed drones also.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> ....
> you assume we can fire on chinese warships, while they will sit still and enjoy the fireworks.
> I´m talking on how to protect our surface warships against chinese antiship missiles? the current air defence installed on the Molynia and Gepards are ways too weak, so in case of a confrontation, we cannot afford to send them out.
> 
> what we need is multirole destroyers and frigates, that provide protection to our surface warships.



Vietnam war doctrine, never tell you stay there to be their targets.
It tells you, mobilize, hide, secretly, hit hard and fast. Then move again.
The enemy can't find targets for their missile launchers, they must fight with phantoms.

An exercise show us that one or some Molnya missile boats would deploy offshore and calculate how many missiles must launch to sink targeted destroyer as minimum, ie. 10-12 missiles, after launch at once they retreat.

It's difficult for the state budget to purchase enough destroyers.
2 or 4 ? equal 3 - 6 billion
And they are hardly survived offshore.
Which missiles for their air defence, you name ?
What facilities they should protect? or protect themselves only?

Based on your logic, why don't just deploy the AA, ASh missiles to Spratlys islands.
Let think how many other weapons you could arm for the same amount ( 3 - 6 billion ).

1. Yakhont/Brahmos : 5 million each, you got 200 missiles for 1 billion.
2. For AIP Soryu subs: you could get 6 more with 3 billions.
3. You get 24 more Su30MK2 for 2 billions or as Carlosa 36x Su-34 for 1.5 billions / or Su-35
Total 3 items for about price of 4 destroyers.

I want some more frigates with strong air defense and ASW abilities, 300-330 million each.
And more Bal-E systems, S300, short range AA missiles.
------------

For only 3 billions : I voted for most of them to cruise missiles and AA missiles and of course missile launchers: surface, land ( coastal, island ), air ...

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Pound per pound, i recommend the Sachsen class frigate of the German Navy.
> 
> View attachment 191547



Yes, that's a nice ship. For all practical considerations, it can be considered a destroyer or almost a destroyer.
The Sachsen class has 1 Mark 41 VLS system, a big destroyer can have 2, not much difference other than that.

The future Viet heavy frigate will most likely have a very similar capability to the Sachsen class, using also the Smart-L radar, but using Aster missiles instead of the AEGIS missiles.



BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam war doctrine, never tell you stay there to be their targets.
> It tells you, mobilize, hide, secretly, hit hard and fast. Then move again.
> The enemy can't find targets for their missile launchers, they must fight with phantoms.
> 
> An exercise show us that one or some Molnya missile boats would deploy offshore and calculate how many missiles must launch to sink targeted destroyer as minimum, ie. 10-12 missiles, after launch at once they retreat.
> 
> It's difficult for the state budget to purchase enough destroyers.
> 2 or 4 ? equal 3 - 6 billion
> And they are hardly survived offshore.
> Which missiles for their air defence, you name ?
> What facilities they should protect? or protect themselves only?
> 
> Based on your logic, why don't just deploy the AA, ASh missiles to Spratlys islands.
> Let think how many other weapons you could arm for the same amount ( 3 - 6 billion ).
> 
> 1. Yakhont/Brahmos : 5 million each, you got 200 missiles for 1 billion.
> 2. For AIP Soryu subs: you could get 6 more with 3 billions.
> 3. You get 24 more Su30MK2 for 2 billions or as Carlosa 36x Su-34 for 1.5 billions / or Su-35
> Total 3 items for about price of 4 destroyers.
> 
> I want some more frigates with strong air defense and ASW abilities, 300-330 million each.
> And more Bal-E systems, S300, short range AA missiles.
> ------------
> 
> For only 3 billions : I voted for most of them to cruise missiles and AA missiles and of course missile launchers: surface, land ( coastal, island ), air ...



If you asked me, I would build a Molniya type but with full stealth capabilities (but retaining the 18 KH-35) and also a version with 8 Brahmos in 2 quad launchers. I would build lots of them (30 or 40), deploy them using wolf pack tactics and using the benefits of a stand off surveillance and targeting network which would be their long eyes.
That would be very effective.

Coastal batteries with Brahmos and other much longer range missiles.

Plenty of drones with supersonic missiles so that can send drone swarms to do missile saturation attacks.

And more subs, 6 is just a starting point.

By the way, I said SU-34 because its the only one in the SU-30 family than can carry a Brahmos, 3 of them.
The SU-30 can't, it needs to have structural modifications at the factory (when the aircraft is made) in order to carry just 1. The Brahmos is very large and heavy. Brahmos M later on will be ok (Brahmos mini).

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> If you asked me, I would build a Molniya type but with full stealth capabilities (but retaining the 18 KH-35) and also a version with 8 Brahmos in 2 quad launchers. I would build lots of them (30 or 40), deploy them using wolf pack tactics and using the benefits of a stand off surveillance and targeting network which would be their long eyes.
> That would be very effective.
> 
> Coastal batteries with Brahmos and other much longer range missiles.
> 
> Plenty of drones with supersonic missiles so that can send drone swarms to do missile saturation attacks.
> 
> And more subs, 6 is just a starting point.
> 
> By the way, I said SU-34 because its the only one in the SU-30 family than can carry a Brahmos, 3 of them.
> The SU-30 can't, it needs to have structural modifications at the factory (when the aircraft is made) in order to carry just 1. The Brahmos is very large and heavy. Brahmos M later on will be ok (Brahmos mini).



That's what Taiwan done with their Tuo Jiang class. It's nice.
Su30MKI adapted successfully to bring 1 Brahmos-A, as this month ITAR-TASS report
( 3 Brahmos-M as planned )

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> That's what Taiwan done with their Tuo Jiang class. It's nice.
> Su30MKI adapted successfully to bring 3 Brahmos-A, as this month ITAR-TASS report



Man, let me tell you, I love that ship, I've been following the developments about that ship for the last couple of years. I love catamaran ships, very fast, very difficult to sink, they are wider than conventional ships, so can carry more stuff. Also 16 anti ship missiles, same as the Molniya class, which is unusual. Great package !!!!!!! The Taiwanese hit the jack pot with that one.



BoQ77 said:


> Su30MKI adapted successfully to bring 3 Brahmos-A, as this month ITAR-TASS report



Are you sure is 3 Brahmos? I used to read about the MK-1 being modified to carry just one under the mainframe, the missiles are too heavy for the wings. The SU-34 was designed from scratch for 3.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> The SU-34 was designed from scratch for 3.



You persuaded me about Su-34. Su-34 are for Yakhont/Brahmos missile air launchers. And both of them is available to Vietnam.

Model Su-30 MKI with 3 Brahmos-M

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Su30MKI adapted successfully to bring 3 Brahmos-A, as this month ITAR-TASS report



Found the report, it doesn't say how many missiles, I'm pretty sure its just 1.

TASS: World - Integration of air-based cruise missile with Su-30MKI fighter completed in India



BoQ77 said:


> You persuaded me about Su-34. Su-34 are for Yakhont/Brahmos missile air launchers. And both of them is available to Vietnam.



The SU-34 is a beast man, best tactical bomber in the world today (not including heavy bombers).

I know one SU-34 was even brought to Vietnam for testing, but didn't hear any more.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ancient times are a bit different than present times. The Vietnamese navy *CAN'T* go par on par with the chinese navy. The Vietnamese navy can only play a defensive role. If Vietnam's economy were to be 20 times the size of the present economy, then Vietnam can try to go on a par with china.
> 
> Destroyers will not make much difference at all, they will just be big targets that the chinese will love to sink.
> 
> Vietnam needs a balanced navy and a heavy frigate (4500 tons) tailored for the air defense role with Aster 15 / 30, but still multi role with full ASW capability fits very well in that balanced navy. It will provide fleet air defense. It will probably cost $500-600 million.
> 
> Destroyers are mainly for air defense these days and they are usually multirole. I fail to see what new capability a destroyer will bring with respect to the heavy frigate other than some extra VLS cells. A destroyer is a duplication once you have the heavy frigates. An expensive duplication that will cost at least 1 billion, so what's the point?
> 
> Air defense destroyers are for fleet air defense in distant waters (power projection) or for base / land air defense as the Japanese AEGIS destroyers are often used to protect Japanese territory from ballistic missiles. Vietnam has S-300/400 for that role which is better and cheaper. Fleet air defense will be done by the heavy frigates. Power projection far from home is something that VN does not need. So what's the point for those destroyers? What are they going to do?
> 
> Vietnam deploys 1 destroyer, the chinese deploy 10.
> What about the chinese cruisers and aircraft carriers? Is Vietnam also going to build those types?
> 
> China is building the Type 55 cruiser, that thing is a monster, even bigger than American cruisers.
> How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against them?
> How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against chinese aircraft carrier battle groups?
> How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against the many chinese subs running around (around 60)?
> How is the Vietnamese destroyer going to survive against a heavy air attack with missile saturation?
> 
> Vietnamese destroyer = Nice big, juicy target for the chinese.
> 
> Vietnam has limited resources so it needs to spend the money wisely on weapon systems that have the most bang for the dollar. That means aircraft, missiles and subs. Period.
> 
> In the battle between anti ship missiles and a ship's air defenses, the missile wins. Supersonic missiles are the way to go, they are difficult to intercept. A saturation missile attack will *ALWAYS DESTROY ANY SHI*P. An air defense destroyer can only intercept so many missiles at the same time and furthermore, what about when it runs out of missiles?
> 
> A SU-34 with 3 Brahmos missiles (later with Brahmos-2 hypersonic) is the way to go.
> SU-34=$35 million plus 3 Brahmos at 5 million each for the latest version = $50 million.
> That $50 million package can sink your billion dollar destroyer.
> 
> Aircraft with the right missiles can challenge the chinese navy. Vietnamese surface ships can only be useful in a defensive role or against a light threat. If the chinese navy sends a whole fleet to the Spratlys, the Viet navy has to stay in port, otherwise it will not survive.
> 
> Surface ships can't hide. In a conflict, chinese satellites will monitor the Viet naval bases and will track any ship that leaves port. China has good stand off targeting and launching platforms such as the H-6 bombers armed with long range cruise missiles (2000 km+).
> 
> Submarines on the other hand, can challenge the chinese navy. The $300 million Kilo can sink anything including aircraft carriers. Old chinese subs have surfaced next to american aircraft carriers totally undetected in the past.
> 
> Unlike surface ships, subs can hide, they are very difficult to detect.
> 
> That's why I say that the money needs to go into aircraft, missiles and subs, not destroyers.
> 
> 
> 
> Very correct, good to see that someone understands.
> 
> Once Vietnam develops standoff surveillance and targeting capabilities (satellites, etc), then can use land based long range missiles (up to 1000 km) and it can target anything in the Spratlys.
> Armed drones also.


you always destroy my dream of having destroyers for our navy 



Carlosa said:


> The SU-34 is a beast man, best tactical bomber in the world today (not including heavy bombers).
> 
> I know one SU-34 was even brought to Vietnam for testing, but didn't hear any more.


bro, christmas comes again 
anyone heard of Yak-130 that are destined for VN?

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Are you sure is 3 Brahmos? I used to read about the MK-1 being modified to carry just one under the mainframe, the missiles are too heavy for the wings. The SU-34 was designed from scratch for 3.
> 
> View attachment 191588



Nope, a single BrahMos-A would be carried by SU-30MKI, which can be configured in different profiles and longer range upto 500 km.

But, the lighter version, BrahMos-M with 290 km only can be carried in set of 3 with SU-30MKI,Rafael and MiG-29. Also a single BrahMos M would be carried by tejas.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> You persuaded me about Su-34. Su-34 are for Yakhont/Brahmos missile air launchers. And both of them is available to Vietnam.
> 
> Model Su-30 MKI with 3 Brahmos-M]



Yes, Brahmos-M is much smaller than regular Brahmos, you can see both in this pic:


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Carlosa said:


> Yes, Brahmos-M is much smaller than regular Brahmos, you can see both in this pic:
> 
> View attachment 191643



didnt vietnam buy russian yakhont itself>?



kaku1 said:


> Nope, a single BrahMos-A would be carried by SU-30MKI, which can be configured in different profiles and* longer range upto 500 km.*
> 
> But, the lighter version, BrahMos-M with 290 km only can be carried in set of 3 with SU-30MKI,Rafael and MiG-29. Also a single BrahMos M would be carried by tejas.



MTRC ... russia cant sell missiles over 300km km to india.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you always destroy my dream of having destroyers for our navy
> 
> 
> bro, christmas comes again
> anyone heard of Yak-130 that are destined for VN?
> View attachment 191610



Sorry bro, but have to be realistic, going against china is not an easy thing, need to have the right stuff, the heavy frigate will do, just think of it like a small destroyer. Actually, Vietnam will probably call them destroyers.

Frankly, I think VN is ordering too many ships but not enough aircraft.

Some Yak-130s are on order but I don't know the schedule.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> didnt vietnam buy russian yakhont itself>.



Yes, for coastal defense, but Brahmos is much better than Yakhont.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> MTRC ... russia cant sell missiles over 300km km to india.


Jus wait for Dec 2015, btw if we say, India is already an unofficial member of MTCR.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

kaku1 said:


> Jus wait for Dec 2015, btw if we say, India is already an unofficial member of MTCR.


Nor is Pak a member of MTCR .. but no country can export missiles with a range of over 300km.


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## kaku1

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nor is Pak a member of MTCR .. but no country can export missiles with a range of over 300km.


I already said the 500km range is of Block 3, not of previous versions. And its not official at all, it become official only after India sign the MTCR.

BTW, if you call MTCR as hard and fast rule for export regime, then how USA exporting Trident to UK?

And one more thing MTCR is regime, not a treaty.


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## Carlosa

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Nor is Pak a member of MTCR .. but no country can export missiles with a range of over 300km.



Russia is not exporting the missiles to India, India is making them, not the same thing. MTCR limitations don't apply to self production of missiles.


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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Sorry bro, but have to be realistic, going against china is not an easy thing, need to have the right stuff, the heavy frigate will do, just think of it like a small destroyer.
> 
> Frankly, I think VN is ordering too many ships but not enough aircraft.
> 
> Some Yak-130s are on order but I don't know the schedule.



What about S400 batteries? How many does Vietnam have fielded?


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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What about S400 batteries? How many does Vietnam have fielded?



The first 2 coming this year, what is fielded is 2 S-300PMU-2.

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's a nice ship. For all practical considerations, it can be considered a destroyer or almost a destroyer.
> The Sachsen class has 1 Mark 41 VLS system, a big destroyer can have 2, not much difference other than that.
> 
> The future Viet heavy frigate will most likely have a very similar capability to the Sachsen class, using also the Smart-L radar, but using Aster missiles instead of the AEGIS missiles.



Precisely, it can be considered a light destroyer, i mean, it already has the firepower of one. 

Another beautiful (yet Powerful) ship is the Bazan Class of the Spanish Navy. Its bristling in air defense capabilities.

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## kaku1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> What about S400 batteries? How many does Vietnam have fielded?



I dont know, but India never accepted S300, S400 system, it never met Indian Forces requirement. Dont know about the problems, but thats true. India never likes the S-series. Instead want to go with Israel.


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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> The first 2 coming this year, what is fielded is 2 S-300PMU-2.



Ah, good development. You guys should expand that and hopefully purchase an additional 4-5. Ideal would be to have 4 batteries in the North, and perhaps 2 throughout the south.


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## kaku1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Precisely, it can be considered a light destroyer, i mean, it already has the firepower of one.
> 
> Another beautiful (yet Powerful) ship is the Bazan Class of the Spanish Navy. Its bristling in air defense capabilities.
> 
> View attachment 191648


what about this.





I tell you, advanced version of this is most suitable for VN as light frigate.

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## Aepsilons

kaku1 said:


> I dont know, but India never accepted S300, S400 system, it never met Indian Forces requirement. Dont know about the problems, but thats true. India never likes the S-series. Instead want to go with Israel.



The S series is arguably pragmatic choice, its efficient. However, the decision to go with the israeli platforms is also a great decision. Their arrow series and the joint Barak program is world class, imho.


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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> what about this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you, advanced version of this is most suitable for VN as light frigate.



What's the name of that babe? Gorgeous !!!!!!


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## Aepsilons

kaku1 said:


> what about this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tell you, advanced version of this is most suitable for VN as light frigate.




Vietnam needs at least 6 light destroyers / heavy frigates to secure her vast coastline. The beauty of the Bazan Class is that it not only has formidable anti ship capability, but its air defense role is an envy in the NATO Flotilla.



Carlosa said:


> What's the name of that babe? Gorgeous !!!!!!



Saar 5 Class , she's a Heavy Corvette of the Israeli Navy.

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## kaku1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The S series is arguably pragmatic choice, its efficient. However, the decision to go with the israeli platforms is also a great decision. Their arrow series and the joint Barak program is world class, imho.


The S series is best to counter ballistic targets and high altitude fighters, but this is not suitable for engaging fighters at cruise altitude and cruise missiles. Even compare that how much g force S-system can sustain in comparison to other. Its pathetic.

But for ballistic engagement India developing BMD system, again with the help of Israeli radar. Green Pine.

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Precisely, it can be considered a light destroyer, i mean, it already has the firepower of one.
> 
> Another beautiful (yet Powerful) ship is the Bazan Class of the Spanish Navy. Its bristling in air defense capabilities.
> 
> View attachment 191648



Yes, very similar to the German frigate, actually, same weapon system, just different radars (the American AEGIS system in this case).

Heavy frigate, light destroyer, same thing. The capability of the weapon system is what counts and its the same in both cases.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Vietnam needs at least 6 light destroyers / heavy frigates to secure her vast coastline. The beauty of the Bazan Class is that it not only has formidable anti ship capability, but its air defense role is an envy in the NATO Flotilla..



Well, the Bazan destroyer is the only full AEGIS system in Europe and it was integrated in a smaller ship and at half the price of an American AEGIS destroyer, not bad Spain

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## kaku1

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Vietnam needs at least 6 light destroyers / heavy frigates to secure her vast coastline. The beauty of the Bazan Class is that it not only has formidable anti ship capability, but its air defense role is an envy in the NATO Flotilla.



Yes, but a 6000+ tonne frigate would be an overkill in VN. And its also lot of expensive.


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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Saar 5 Class , she's a Heavy Corvette of the Israeli Navy.



The Saar 5 Class is definitely a very nice ship, small but deadly.

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Yes, very similar to the German frigate, actually, same weapon system, just different radars (the American AEGIS system in this case).
> 
> Heavy frigate, light destroyer, same thing. The capability of the weapon system is what counts and its the same in both cases.



That's the closest thing to an AEGIS system that Vietnam can get while in reasonable price range. Bazan Class, she's f@cking impressive, dude. When i was in JMSDF, during escort fleet duties, our ship coordinated with the Alvaro de Bazan near the Horn of Africa. 

One doesn't hear much about Spanish Navy, not so much publicity, but their presence is known in around the Horn of Africa / Persian Gulf.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Yes, but a 6000+ tonne frigate would be an overkill in VN. And its also lot of expensive.



The heavy frigate that VN is planning will be around 4500 tons, that's enough. 
Yes, 6000 tons is overkill (sorry Viet).

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Well, the Bazan destroyer is the only full AEGIS system in Europe and it was integrated in a smaller ship and at half the price of an American AEGIS destroyer, not bad Spain



Definitely. And Spain has 6 of these ship of the line in active service. By far one of the largest active 'heavy frigates' / 'light destroyers' of AEGIS platform in the entire European naval forces. Not even Germany, France or Britain fields that many AEGIS system. 

Like i said, Spanish Navy is silent, but f@cking deadly.


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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> That's the closest thing to an AEGIS system that Vietnam can get while in reasonable price range. Bazan Class, she's f@cking impressive, dude. When i was in JMSDF, during escort fleet duties, our ship coordinated with the Alvaro de Bazan near the Horn of Africa.
> 
> One doesn't hear much about Spanish Navy, not so much publicity, but their presence is known in around the Horn of Africa / Persian Gulf.



Totally agree, but it will be a while before USA will agree to give that tech to Vietnam.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Definitely. And Spain has 6 of these ship of the line in active service. By far one of the largest active 'heavy frigates' / 'light destroyers' of AEGIS platform in the entire European naval forces. Not even Germany, France or Britain fields that many AEGIS system.
> 
> Like i said, Spanish Navy is silent, but f@cking deadly.



Ha ha, very true, we need to watch out for those Moroccans man.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Totally agree, but it will be a while before USA will agree to give that tech to Vietnam.
> Ha ha, very true, we need to watch out for those Moroccans man.



If it's available, I suggest Vietnam should buy 3 nuclear submarines from USA.
Virginia-class Block V for example.


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## Aepsilons

On the Alvaro de Bazan Class of the Royal Spanish Navy,

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> If it's available, I suggest Vietnam should buy few nuclear submarines from USA.



1.8 billion a piece man. I don't think that will ever be available to Vietnam. Frankly, I don't think they are cost effective for Vietnam and they are more noisy than a good conventional sub.


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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Totally agree, but it will be a while before USA will agree to give that tech to Vietnam.



I agree. Vietnamese - US - NATO relations would have to warm to strategic partner level before anything happens. But hey, we can still admire , LOL!

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> On the Alvaro de Bazan Class of the Royal Spanish Navy,
> 
> 
> View attachment 191654
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 191655



I always find it very interesting how they integrated the smokestack with the radar tower, very unique design.


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## kaku1

BoQ77 said:


> If it's available, I suggest Vietnam should buy 3 nuclear submarines from USA.
> Virginia-class Block V for example.



Its much better to go russian, and ask Yasen or Akula.


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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Definitely. And Spain has 6 of these ship of the line in active service. By far one of the largest active 'heavy frigates' / 'light destroyers' of AEGIS platform in the entire European naval forces. Not even Germany, France or Britain fields that many AEGIS system.
> 
> Like i said, Spanish Navy is silent, but f@cking deadly.



You know? The American navy have a lot of issues lately because the number of ships is going down, the LCS ships turned out to be a disaster, etc, etc. Part of the problem is that they keep building ships that are too big and too expensive and of course not enough money to keep the quantities. The Bazan light destroyer type of ship is something that they should look into, combine heavy and light ships, not everything super heavy and super expensive.



kaku1 said:


> Its much better to go russian, and ask Yasen or Akula.



That's all beyond Vietnam's means, I think BoQ77 had too much Vietnamese vodka.

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> You know? The American navy have a lot of issues lately because the number of ships is going down, the LCS ships turned out to be a disaster, etc, etc. Part of the problem is that they keep building ships that are too big and too expensive and of course not enough money to keep the quantities. The Bazan light destroyer type of ship is something that they should look into, combine heavy and light ships, not everything super heavy and super expensive.



In my opinion, the decision for the United States to phase out their frigate program was a bad mistake. I agree with you about the cost effectiveness aspect. Without a doubt the US Navy fields the greatest number of AEGIS Destroyers , but its not practical (fiscally and strategically) to be sending these destroyers for littoral observation or for patrol when that objective can be completed easily by a Frigate (ergo, the Perry Class Frigate) or a frigate squadron. That's just my view. The USN isn't even creating a successor to their Ticonderoga Class Cruisers, as they're focusing more so on destroyers. This is a bad idea, imho.



Carlosa said:


> That's all beyond Vietnam's means, I think BoQ77 had too much Vietnamese vodka.



LOL! I think @NiceGuy is the one that drank too much of that 'fire water' ....


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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> In my opinion, the decision for the United States to phase out their frigate program was a bad mistake. I agree with you about the cost effectiveness aspect. Without a doubt the US Navy fields the greatest number of AEGIS Destroyers , but its not practical (fiscally and strategically) to be sending these destroyers for littoral observation or for patrol when that objective can be completed easily by a Frigate (ergo, the Perry Class Frigate) or a frigate squadron. That's just my view. The USN isn't even creating a successor to their Ticonderoga Class Cruisers, as they're focusing more so on destroyers. This is a bad idea, imho..



Totally right, the Perry frigates were fulfilling a mission and to replace them with the LCS that can't even survive in a combat situation and at 700 million a piece on top of everything is crazy. All they can do is patrol against pirates.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> In my opinion, the decision for the United States to phase out their frigate program was a bad mistake. I agree with you about the cost effectiveness aspect. Without a doubt the US Navy fields the greatest number of AEGIS Destroyers , but its not practical (fiscally and strategically) to be sending these destroyers for littoral observation or for patrol when that objective can be completed easily by a Frigate (ergo, the Perry Class Frigate) or a frigate squadron. That's just my view. The USN isn't even creating a successor to their Ticonderoga Class Cruisers, as they're focusing more so on destroyers. This is a bad idea, imho.



Meanwhile, the chinese are building the type 55 cruiser which is a total beast. The way the chinese are developing the navy its a lot smarter than the Americans. More balanced, more cost effective, they are covering all the corners.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Carlosa said:


> Russia is not exporting the missiles to India, India is making them, not the same thing. MTCR limitations don't apply to self production of missiles.



It is a russian missile or based on a russian missile... and hence india cant get it.. MTCR doesnt imply ony when some country builds an indigenous missile.. exporting,production from other countries = Prohibited.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> On the Alvaro de Bazan Class of the Royal Spanish Navy,
> 
> 
> View attachment 191654
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 191655



meh.. i wish we had our navy had these...


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Totally right, the Perry frigates were fulfilling a mission and to replace them with the LCS that can't even survive in a combat situation and at 700 million a piece on top of everything is crazy. All they can do is patrol against pirates.
> 
> Meanwhile, the chinese are building the type 55 cruiser which is a total beast. The way the chinese are developing the navy its a lot smarter than the Americans. More balanced, more cost effective, they are covering all the corners.



1. What American try to do the best is limiting the quantity while keeping the hi tech advantage to other. And get the minimum operation cost. American get big profit to export their weapons even apply the strict policy. For example F-35.

2. China try to close the gap to American, and because their testing phase on going, still can't control both the quantity and operation cost. China still get small money for their weapon export, to recover the cost of development.
Anyway, both of them has been spending hundreds billion dollars. 
----------
My suggestion: USA should leave regional missions ( LCS ... ) to their allies while keeping the steel punch ( nuclear submarines, strategic airforce ) ready to assist.

What they could immediately do to make the difference : launch the space aircrafts and shoot down all of enemy satellites, and within 1 day replace all of their satellites by similar project as ALASA.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> My suggestion: USA should leave regional missions ( LCS ... ) to their allies while keeping the steel punch ( nuclear submarines, strategic airforce ) ready to assist..



I think that's a very good idea, but of course that requires to have allies wiling to do the job, Japan seems to be willing to do that, but I don't see anybody else yet. Most other countries don't want to anger china or are not powerful enough to do the job at the moment.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> I think that's a very good idea, but of course that requires to have allies wiling to do the job, Japan seems to be willing to do that, but I don't see anybody else yet. Most other countries don't want to anger china or are not powerful enough to do the job at the moment.



There would be Asean Coast Guard.
At this moment, Taiwan Coast Guard did the job of pushing out their invaders to Taiwan EEZ.
Last year, Vietnam did that, give them more big ships and they would do that harder.
Still cheaper than US themselves intervene


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> There would be Asean Coast Guard.
> At this moment, Taiwan Coast Guard did the job of pushing out their invaders to Taiwan EEZ.
> Last year, Vietnam did that, give them more big ships and they would do that harder.
> Still cheaper than US themselves intervene



Yes, equipment and a firm commitment from US that they will intervene if things get too hot, that's the tricky part. I think it could be possible in the future.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Vietnam has recently unveiled its new own design 105mm wheeled self-propelled howitzer.*

Vietnam has designed and manufactured its own wheeled self-propelled gun based on a military truck chassis fitted with a 105 mm M101 towed gun. Recently, a Vietnamese army newspaper published some pictures take during first firing test with the new self-propelled howitzer.

The Ground Forces of Vietnam are currently equipped with lot of towed howitzer produced by United States as the M101 but also with Russian-made howitzers as D-20 152mm and *D-30 122mm*.

The M101 is 105mm towed howitzer designed and manufactured in United States. The M101 fires its own type of ammunitions and it has a maximum range of 11.5 km. The maximum rate of fire is 10 rounds which can be reduced to 3 during sustained fire.

Today, many armies in the world make the choice to use wheeled self-propelled howitzer to replace towed and tracked artillery weapon systems.

The greatest tactical advantage in the case of wheeled self-propelled artillery guns is clearly the greater degree of mobility they have compared to towed artillery. Not only is it important in offering military forces greater flexibility, but it is critical in avoiding attack from the enemy (counter-battery fire) by allowing the guns to change position immediately after firing one or more salvos and before their position can be located.

The new Vietnamese self-propelled howitzer uses old type of towed howitzer and truck to reduce costs and produce locally a weapon which response to the request of Vietnamese armed forces.

The system was displayed and tested for the first time at the Military training center of the Vietnamese Army January 15, 2014.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> If it's available, I suggest Vietnam should buy 3 nuclear submarines from USA.
> Virginia-class Block V for example.


no, virgina-class is nuclear powered attack submarine. what we need is nuclear powered submarine with ICMB: ohio-class. we need nuclear deterrence, the capability to turn our enemies to nuclear ashes if necessary.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> no, virgina-class is nuclear powered attack submarine. what we need is nuclear powered submarine with ICMB: ohio-class. we need nuclear deterrence, the capability to turn our enemies to nuclear ashes if necessary.



Lol and I used to think that your dreams about AEGIS destroyers were unrealistic............. troi oi 

Actually, India is working on that type of subs and going well, that's the way to go for nuclear deterrence. Once you have those babies, nobody will touch you.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Lol and I used to think that your dreams about AEGIS destroyers were unrealistic............. troi oi
> 
> Actually, India is working on that type of subs and going well, that's the way to go for nuclear deterrence. Once you have those babies, nobody will touch you.


if history is a guide, it is extremely unlikely that chinese will ever ease aggression against vietnam. we should aim for nuclear weapons. we can never win a arms race against china. a conventional deterrence is never going to work.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> if history is a guide, it is extremely unlikely that chinese will ever ease aggression against vietnam. we should aim for nuclear weapons. we can never win a arms race against china. a conventional deterrence is never going to work.



I agree, at best Vietnam can fend off Chinese aggression if it is limited, assuming that they don't come will full strength and assuming that Vietnam had enough time to rearm (still need a number of years for that). In the best of circumstances VN can make them pay a heavy price and maybe trigger outside intervention, but if it is VN all alone against a china determined to win, the result will not be good for Vietnam. Yes, nuclear weapons are the big equalizer.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> I agree, at best Vietnam can fend off Chinese aggression if it is limited, assuming that they don't come will full strength and assuming that Vietnam had enough time to rearm (still need a number of years for that). In the best of circumstances VN can make them pay a heavy price and maybe trigger outside intervention, but if it is VN all alone against a china determined to win, the result will not be good for Vietnam. Yes, nuclear weapons are the big equalizer.



Keep status quo for at least 1 decade and boost the cooperation, push the economic development paces.
A full lift of arm ban from USA would be the most wanted signal I expect early this year 2015.

That also the signal help Vietnam get more cooperation ( incl. investment and trade ) from US allies and US themselves.
2 years afterward would be more valuable than over 20 year of normalization relation with China.

@Viet : nuclear powered subs are the max I could dream of,
the purpose: 1 nuclear powered sub gives practical unlimited time of operation underwater.
an easier option: AIP sub is acceptable too.
a Virginia-class sub ( 7,900 long tons ) even provide much more than some Kilo class subs provide.

Of course, getting Virginia class, getting the proper weapons

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Keep status quo for at least 1 decade and boost the cooperation, push the economic development paces.
> A full lift of arm ban from USA would be the most wanted signal I expect early this year 2015.
> 
> That also the signal help Vietnam get more cooperation ( incl. investment and trade ) from US allies and US themselves.
> 2 years afterward would be more valuable than over 20 year of normalization relation with China.



Yes, I also expect a full lifting of the embargo this year.

VN needs to play for time and keep growing the economy so that it can afford a bigger military budget and in the meantime to keep working on the key military programs which are always very long term projects like build subs under license, learn the tech, keep improving the ballistic missiles, long range cruise missiles, undercover nuclear program, hire some key Russian scientist and you are covering all the basis to eventually have a nuclear deterrent.

That's the way to go @Viet bro, then you can have your strategic underwater toys.



BoQ77 said:


> Keep status quo for at least 1 decade and boost the cooperation, push the economic development paces.
> A full lift of arm ban from USA would be the most wanted signal I expect early this year 2015.
> 
> That also the signal help Vietnam get more cooperation ( incl. investment and trade ) from US allies and US themselves.
> 2 years afterward would be more valuable than over 20 year of normalization relation with China.
> 
> @Viet : nuclear powered subs are the max I could dream of,
> the purpose: 1 nuclear powered sub gives practical unlimited time of operation underwater.
> an easier option: AIP sub is acceptable too.
> a Virginia-class sub ( 7,900 long tons ) even provide much more than some Kilo class subs provide.
> 
> Of course, getting Virginia class, getting the proper weapons


AIP technology will keep getting better, the 2nd generation Russian AIP has twice the power of the best western AIP. If you are talking a Viet made sub, nuclear power is not feasible, but AIP could be ok. VN started to make cruise missiles under license, step by step it can get there, in 2017 VN will start to make Yakhont under license, much to learn from those programs.

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## Viet

Carlosa, we used to have a great navy. back then, for example we fielded 500 to 1,000 warships against the Ming army in a single battle. in the great battle of Ham-tu pass of 1407, chinese historians told, the vietnamese warships extended up to more than ten li (1 li= 500m, 10 li= 5km) in the battle order.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, we used to have a great navy. back then, for example we fielded 500 to 1,000 warships against the Ming army in a single battle. in the great battle of Ham-tu pass of 1407, chinese historians told, the vietnamese warships extended up to more than ten li (1 li= 500m, 10 li= 5km) in the battle order.



Different times bro, ships are a bit more complicated to make these days, have to accept the reality of how things are now, but still, Vietnam is rearming and it will get much better, but still, Vietnam is an small country with an small economy, it can't match China but it can build up enough to give them a bloody nose if needed. That's all that can be done.

Look at Spain, used to be the most powerful empire around 1500 ad, later was the british, now we are a shadow of what we used to be. Countries rise and decline, its the wheel of history.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Different times bro, ships are a bit more complicated to make these days, have to accept the reality of how things are now, but still, Vietnam is rearming and it will get much better, but still, Vietnam is an small country with an small economy, it can't match China but it can build up enough to give them a bloody nose if needed. That's all that can be done.
> 
> Look at Spain, used to be the most powerful empire around 1500 ad, later was the british, now we are a shadow of what we used to be. Countries rise and decline, its the wheel of history.



There's another way to enlarge a country without invasion. Asean community is going to be unique.
It's not surprise to appear " *Asean defence ministry*" one day.


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## kaku1

BoQ77 said:


> Keep status quo for at least 1 decade and boost the cooperation, push the economic development paces.
> A full lift of arm ban from USA would be the most wanted signal I expect early this year 2015.
> 
> That also the signal help Vietnam get more cooperation ( incl. investment and trade ) from US allies and US themselves.
> 2 years afterward would be more valuable than over 20 year of normalization relation with China.
> 
> @Viet : nuclear powered subs are the max I could dream of,
> the purpose: 1 nuclear powered sub gives practical unlimited time of operation underwater.
> an easier option: AIP sub is acceptable too.
> a Virginia-class sub ( 7,900 long tons ) even provide much more than some Kilo class subs provide.
> 
> Of course, getting Virginia class, getting the proper weapons



I dont think bro, your dream of Virginia class and Tomahawk is realistic. 

I am again saying, why not Akula?

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> I dont think bro, your dream of Virginia class and Tomahawk is realistic.
> 
> I am again saying, why not Akula?



Nuclear subs for Vietnam are not realistic at all, way too expensive for Vietnam, plus Vietnam doesn't have the expertise to deal with the nuclear power plants of the subs. The Vietnamese civilian nuclear program has beed delayed because of that same reason.

I think Vietnam should go for Amur 1650 with Brahmos VLS.



BoQ77 said:


> There's another way to enlarge a country without invasion. Asean community is going to be unique.
> It's not surprise to appear " *Asean defence ministry*" one day.



I'm not sure about that, ASEAN can't even agree on a SCS policy against china. Each country pulls in their own direction and some of them are heavily influenced by China.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> I think Vietnam should go for Amur 1650 with Brahmos VLS.
> .



I dont think, that is suitable too.

Because, for an SSK, it will be nightmare to handle that much buoyancy force generated by VLS launch.

Even that is same reason, Russian Navy never gone to Amur 1650, even Indian Navy rejected the Amur way back in 2011.

The best solution for submarine for VN would always be european, the Russians are a generation behind in SSK against Europeans. And if Japs ready to export, then Soryu is world best currently.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Nuclear subs for Vietnam are not realistic at all, way too expensive for Vietnam, plus Vietnam doesn't have the expertise to deal with the nuclear power plants of the subs. The Vietnamese civilian nuclear program has beed delayed because of that same reason.
> 
> I think Vietnam should go for Amur 1650 with Brahmos VLS.
> 
> I'm not sure about that, ASEAN can't even agree on a SCS policy against china. Each country pulls in their own direction and some of them are heavily influenced by China.



At the time of signing Kilo contract, no one expect that'd happen. 2 - 3 billion. wow !!!

That's why the need for a solid ASEAN community would help them to avoid facing themselves to China.
A lion prefer to chase a single buffalo over facing a ready group of buffalos.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> I dont think, that is suitable too.
> 
> Because, for an SSK, it will be nightmare to handle that much buoyancy force generated by VLS launch.
> 
> Even that is same reason, Russian Navy never gone to Amur 1650, even Indian Navy rejected the Amur way back in 2011.
> 
> The best solution for submarine for VN would always be european, the Russians are a generation behind in SSK against Europeans. And if Japs ready to export, then Soryu is world best currently.



I think the best European solution is the Scorpene, but its weak in terms of the missiles, just the Exocet. The Club in the Kilos is so much better. Also, the AIP of the Scorpene is not doing that great.

I don't think the Japanese would sell the Soryu to Vietnam, they would worry about VN letting the Russians take a look at it.



BoQ77 said:


> At the time of signing Kilo contract, no one expect that'd happen. 2 - 3 billion. wow !!!
> 
> That's why the need for a solid ASEAN community would help them to avoid facing themselves to China.
> A lion prefer to chase a single buffalo over facing a ready group of buffalos.



Ha ha, nice man!!! Those bulls have some mighty horns.



kaku1 said:


> I dont think, that is suitable too.
> 
> Because, for an SSK, it will be nightmare to handle that much buoyancy force generated by VLS launch.
> 
> Even that is same reason, Russian Navy never gone to Amur 1650, even Indian Navy rejected the Amur way back in 2011.
> 
> The best solution for submarine for VN would always be european, the Russians are a generation behind in SSK against Europeans. And if Japs ready to export, then Soryu is world best currently.



How about the Indian Scorpenes? Are they also going to use Exocet? It would be nice to integrate Club / Brahmos (using the torpedo tubes).


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> How about the Indian Scorpenes? Are they also going to use Exocet? It would be nice to integrate Club / Brahmos (using the torpedo tubes).



Nope, Indian Scorpene would be armed with Exocets and even P-75I would use exocets, if Scorpene again is chooses.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> There's another way to enlarge a country without invasion. Asean community is going to be unique.
> It's not surprise to appear " *Asean defence ministry*" one day.


do you believe to snowfall in Saigon?
will you give your home key to a burglar?
do you believe to China peaceful rise?

a cambodian rep for VN? the likelyhood that such thing happens to close to zero. Even in the highly integrated European Union, there is no such post called european defence minister. No country in the world should rely on others if it comes on national defence interest.



Carlosa said:


> Different times bro, ships are a bit more complicated to make these days, have to accept the reality of how things are now, but still, Vietnam is rearming and it will get much better, but still, Vietnam is an small country with an small economy, it can't match China but it can build up enough to give them a bloody nose if needed. That's all that can be done.
> 
> Look at Spain, used to be the most powerful empire around 1500 ad, later was the british, now we are a shadow of what we used to be. Countries rise and decline, its the wheel of history.


just saying we need to rely on our strength. normally we know our strength and weakness, so we know very well about china´s strength and weakness. the chinese know their strength, but not their weakness. More, they are not interested of knowing vietnam strength and weakness. arrogance at best. That is our chance to give them a bloody nose.



kaku1 said:


> I dont think, that is suitable too.
> 
> Because, for an SSK, it will be nightmare to handle that much buoyancy force generated by VLS launch.
> 
> Even that is same reason, Russian Navy never gone to Amur 1650, even Indian Navy rejected the Amur way back in 2011.
> 
> The best solution for submarine for VN would always be european, the Russians are a generation behind in SSK against Europeans. And if Japs ready to export, then Soryu is world best currently.


whatever be, our navy needs more submarines. india operates soon Scorpène, why shouldn´t we follow?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> do you believe to snowfall in Saigon?
> will you give your home key to a burglar?
> do you believe to China peaceful rise?
> 
> a cambodian rep for VN? the likelyhood that such thing happens to close to zero. Even in the highly integrated European Union, there is no such post called european defence minister. No country in the world should rely on others if it comes on national defence interest.
> 
> 
> just saying we need to rely on our strength. normally we know our strength and weakness, so we know very well about china´s strength and weakness. the chinese know their strength, but not their weakness. More, they are not interested of knowing vietnam strength and weakness. arrogance at best. That is our chance to give them a bloody nose.
> 
> 
> whatever be, our navy needs more submarines. india operates soon Scorpène, why shouldn´t we follow?



I very much agree with you, can't depend on ASEAN or anybody else, if someone else wants to help, that's a bonus, but can't expect or depend on them.

Definitely need a second batch of subs, in my opinion that's more important than heavy frigates, etc. Also need some SU-34 / SU-35.

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## Viet

Vietnam VHF band acquisition radar Nebo-UE









S-75 anti aircraft missile




Cẩu đạn lên xe đẩy.











Kiểm tra hiệu chỉnh các thông số của đạn tên lửa.





Nối tầng xuất phát cho tên lửa.







Lắp cánh nâng và cánh ổn định cho tên lửa











Cẩu và cố định đạn lên xe chuyên dụng.

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## BoQ77

The second C-295M of Vietnam Airforce , would be 8902
@Carlosa

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## Viet

invention that helps the infantryman: electric brush for cleaning of tank barrel. Usually a barrel cleaning process goes through several stages of washing with soapy water, oiling diesel, then at the end using a scarf/fabric to clean the barrel. all manual labor, sometimes lasting 3 hours. now the machine helps.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> The second C-295M of Vietnam Airforce , would be 8902
> @Carlosa



Bravo, one more to come !!!!

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## BoQ77

*Deputy PM, US Secretary of State talk bilateral ties over phone*
February 13, 2015 by vietnamplus Leave a Comment

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh and US Secretary of State John Kerry discussed bilateral ties over the phone on February 13.

Both sides reflected the progression of bilateral relationship since the establishment of the comprehensive partnership, saying that 2015 is a significant year with *a series of activities in honour of the 20 th founding anniversary of Vietnam – US diplomatic ties.*

They also underscored the need to facilitate high-level visits as a means to push their ties forward.

Kerry extended New Year greetings to the government and people of Vietnam and r*eiterated the US administration’s invitation to Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong to visit the US in 2015.*

Minh and Kerry talked next steps to conclude the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations as scheduled and other areas of coordination.-VNA

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## Carlosa

@Viet @BoQ77 Viet guys

Happy New Year !!!!!

CHUC MUNG NAM MOI !!!

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Viet guys
> 
> Happy New Year !!!!!
> 
> CHUC MUNG NAM MOI !!!



Chuc Mung Nam moi, ban Carlosa.

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## BoQ77




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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet @BoQ77 Viet guys
> 
> Happy New Year !!!!!
> 
> CHUC MUNG NAM MOI !!!


carlosa, also, chúc mừng năm mới and all the best for you and family.
I wish you always to be in good health and become prosperous in the new year.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> carlosa, also, chúc mừng năm mới and all the best for you and family.
> I wish you always to be in good health and become prosperous in the new year.
> View attachment 193262



Thank you bro, same to you and your family.

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## BoQ77



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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> *Deputy PM, US Secretary of State talk bilateral ties over phone*
> February 13, 2015 by vietnamplus Leave a Comment
> 
> Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh and US Secretary of State John Kerry discussed bilateral ties over the phone on February 13.
> 
> Both sides reflected the progression of bilateral relationship since the establishment of the comprehensive partnership, saying that 2015 is a significant year with *a series of activities in honour of the 20 th founding anniversary of Vietnam – US diplomatic ties.*
> 
> They also underscored the need to facilitate high-level visits as a means to push their ties forward.
> 
> Kerry extended New Year greetings to the government and people of Vietnam and r*eiterated the US administration’s invitation to Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong to visit the US in 2015.*
> 
> Minh and Kerry talked next steps to conclude the Trans-Pacific Partnership negotiations as scheduled and other areas of coordination.-VNA


I hope we stop as soon as possible the appeasement policy toward China. Neville Chamberlain, the former british prime minister, who advanced the appeasement policy, just to please Adolf Hitler. we all know what came after.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> I hope we stop as soon as possible the appeasement policy toward China. Neville Chamberlain, the former british prime minister, who advanced the appeasement policy, just to please Adolf Hitler. we all know what came after.



As long as we could have anything as detergent for Northern threat.
Beijing get losses once Vietnam followed other superpower. They also know that.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> As long as we could have anything as detergent for Northern threat.
> Beijing get losses once Vietnam followed other superpower. They also know that.


I´m afraid what we have now and plan for the future for our army is too litle to discourage chinese from their aggression against vietnam. don´t make wrong assumption. the imbalance of powers between them and us is huge. we should close as soon as possible a military agreement with america and japan. chinese hostile attitude has never changed. they will come again, destroy our cities, killing our people. Japan and S Korea economies prosper under the US military umbrella. Why should´t we follow?

the open question is how we will re-arrange our relationship to Russia. that is difficult to answer now.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> I´m afraid what we have now and plan for the future for our army is too litle to discourage chinese from their aggression against vietnam. don´t make wrong assumption. the imbalance of powers between them and us is huge. we should close as soon as possible a military agreement with america and japan. chinese hostile attitude has never changed. they will come again, destroy our cities, killing our people. Japan and S Korea economies prosper under the US military umbrella. Why should´t we follow?
> 
> the open question is how we will re-arrange our relationship to Russia. that is difficult to answer now.



You must grab firmly both two big tree branches before deciding to release one or another, while teasing the underwaiting tiger .

Indonesia and India both make good move among the fire line.

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## Echo_419

BoQ77 said:


> *You must grab firmly both two big tree branches before deciding to release one or another, while teasing the underwaiting tiger .*
> 
> Indonesia and India both make good move among the fire line.



Agreed,Vietnam must increase it's cooperation with the West & Powers in Asia which are feeling threatened by the rise of China (Japan,SK,India)


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> You must grab firmly both two big tree branches before deciding to release one or another, while teasing the underwaiting tiger .
> 
> Indonesia and India both make good move among the fire line.


China will never dare to attack India because it is a military power, having nuclear weapons. Indonesia has no stakes in the SC Sea. No reason for China to attack them.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I´m afraid what we have now and plan for the future for our army is too litle to discourage chinese from their aggression against vietnam. don´t make wrong assumption. the imbalance of powers between them and us is huge. we should close as soon as possible a military agreement with america and japan. chinese hostile attitude has never changed. they will come again, destroy our cities, killing our people. Japan and S Korea economies prosper under the US military umbrella. Why should´t we follow?
> 
> the open question is how we will re-arrange our relationship to Russia. that is difficult to answer now.



Very right. I'm concerned that the air force is not getting enough planes. Everything is too little, too late. Need to have alliances and try to have a balanced relationship with Russia. I think it can be done, the Americans keep making suggestions about having closer ties. Need to act on it.



Viet said:


> Indonesia has no stakes in the SC Sea. No reason for China to attack them.



Not really, the 11 dash line cuts into the Natuna islands EEZ, Its a low key situation for now, but the Indonesians are nervous about that.


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## Nike

Vietnam air forces, though they are seemed fine today, but the bulk of it is comprises of Su-22 and Mig-21 which is an old aircraft made in 70 to 80's era and has been overhauled several times, air frame fatigue can't be avoided someday in near future. And your helicopter fleet too....


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Vietnam air forces, though they are seemed fine today, but the bulk of it is comprises of Su-22 and Mig-21 which is an old aircraft made in 70 to 80's era and has been overhauled several times, air frame fatigue can't be avoided someday in near future. And your helicopter fleet too....



The Mig-21 is already almost out of service; there is only one regiment of Mig-21 left (12 jets) and probably will not last long. The SU-22 is in better shape and can last until sometime in the next decade.

The plan is to order SU-30 SM and SU-35 S and possibly SU-34. 

VN is negotiating for European helicopters right now.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> The Mig-21 is already almost out of service; there is only one regiment of Mig-21 left (12 jets) and probably will not last long. The SU-22 is in better shape and can last until sometime in the next decade.
> 
> The plan is to order SU-30 SM and SU-35 S and possibly SU-34.
> 
> VN is negotiating for European helicopters right now.



How about your Tet holiday, @Carlosa ?


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> How about your Tet holiday, @Carlosa ?



Not bad at all bro, enjoying and relaxing here, nice weather in Danang, but no fireworks because of the death of the Tanh guy. Our only concern is if there is enough supplies of Bia Larue.  How about you?


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> How about the Indian Scorpenes? Are they also going to use Exocet? It would be nice to integrate Club / Brahmos (using the torpedo tubes).



Good news. BrahMos Aerospace developing BrahMos-NG, which would have 6m long and 530mm diameter for torpedo launch.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Good news. BrahMos Aerospace developing BrahMos-NG, which would have 6m long and 530mm diameter for torpedo launch.



That is very good indeed, is that an spin off of Brahmos M? Seems like a very similar size.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> That is very good indeed, is that an spin off of Brahmos M? Seems like a very similar size.


Yes the same structure would be used, but actually it would be spinoff of VLS based submarine launch BrahMos.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Yes the same structure would be used, but actually it would be spinoff of VLS based submarine launch BrahMos.



Nice, the ever growing Brahmos family. I imagine it should be not too much problem to use the Brahmos NG in the Viet Kilo subs.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Nice, the ever growing Brahmos family. I imagine it should be not too much problem to use the Brahmos NG in the Viet Kilo subs.


It is designing for Indian Kilo and Scorpene.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> I´m afraid what we have now and plan for the future for our army is too litle to discourage chinese from their aggression against vietnam. don´t make wrong assumption. the imbalance of powers between them and us is huge. we should close as soon as possible a military agreement with america and japan. chinese hostile attitude has never changed. they will come again, destroy our cities, killing our people. Japan and S Korea economies prosper under the US military umbrella. Why should´t we follow?
> 
> the open question is how we will re-arrange our relationship to Russia. that is difficult to answer now.



We're not in SK and Japan's position to do that so easy, and now, China was becoming great power and will be superpower, and surpass the US in near future (in general term), so, careful on thin line will be the best way, at least with me.

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## Water Car Engineer

C-Dome is shown, any use maybe for Vietnam?

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Not bad at all bro, enjoying and relaxing here, nice weather in Danang, but no fireworks because of the death of the Tanh guy. Our only concern is if there is enough supplies of Bia Larue.  How about you?



La Rue beer !!! Good choice.
Da Nang is another good choice, indeed.

Brahmos - NG marketed as each Su-30MKI could bring 5 NG. Too dangerous.


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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Good news. BrahMos Aerospace developing BrahMos-NG, which would have 6m long and 530mm diameter for torpedo launch.



Kaku bro, do you know the price that India pays for the Israeli radar for the Kolkata destroyers and for Barak 8 missiles?

I used to hear from Black Flag that India paid $68 million for the radars, but I'm not sure if that's for the whole contract or for each radar.

I used to read that Barak 8 was going to sell for $1 - 1.2 million, but that was an old estimate.

I'm trying to compare their cost to Aster 30 ($3 million a pop), looks like VN is buying the land version of it.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Kaku bro, do you know the price that India pays for the Israeli radar for the Kolkata destroyers and for Barak 8 missiles?
> 
> I used to hear from Black Flag that India paid $68 million for the radars, but I'm not sure if that's for the whole contract or for each radar.


Nope bro, the real capability and cost of MF-STAR ( Indian Version ) is still top secret. And yes the Indian version is much different than Israeli version.



> I used to read that Barak 8 was going to sell for $1 - 1.2 million, but that was an old estimate.
> 
> I'm trying to compare their cost to Aster 30 ($3 million a pop), looks like VN is buying the land version of it.



If you talking about land version, then they are not going to be integrated with MF-STAR, but with S-band Arudhra radar. And yes it going to be canisterized, and yes the overall cost of a system and even of a single missile is going to be much low than Aster.






And actually after mass production in BDL, the cost going to be much lower. But decision would be political.

Actually the single system of Barak ( including maintenance) going to be even lower than Akash.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Nope bro, the real capability and cost of MF-STAR ( Indian Version ) is still top secret. And yes the Indian version is much different than Israeli version.
> 
> 
> 
> If you talking about land version, then they are not going to be integrated with MF-STAR, but with S-band Arudhra radar. And yes it going to be canisterized, and yes the overall cost of a system and even of a single missile is going to be much low than Aster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And actually after mass production in BDL, the cost going to be much lower. But decision would be political.
> 
> Actually the single system of Barak ( including maintenance) going to be even lower than Akash.



Thank you bro, yes, I was talking about Barak 8 land version.
I know it will be much cheaper than Aster 30, I'm just trying to get to specifics prices.
Barak 8 land version in standard configuration works with the same radar as Spyder MR (land version of the MF-STAR radar) and considering that VN is buying Spyder MR, it makes sense to buy Barak 8, not Aster 30. 

VN could have mixed batteries with a combo of Spyder and Barak 8.

The 2 batteries of Aster 30 for VN with 93 Aster 30 missiles go for $700 million, way expensive, so I don't see the logic behind the deal.


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## BoQ77

This happened while USA decided not to deploy USS George Washington to China as invited.






*YOKOSUKA*, Japan (Feb. 5, 2015) Capt. Timothy Kuehhas, left, commanding officer of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), gives a tour of the ship's flag bridge to Adm. Nguyen Van Hien, center, commander of the Vietnam People's Navy, and senior members of his staff. George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interests of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Ricardo R. Guzman/Released)

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## Carlosa

Nice video of West London Reef (Đảo Da tay A), Spratly Islands.

It shows some of the land reclamation work going on there.

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## BoQ77

CVN-73 5 Feb 2015 - Yokosuka, Japan

American and Vietnamese : Navy and Army

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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> This happened while USA decided not to deploy USS George Washington to China as invited.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *YOKOSUKA*, Japan (Feb. 5, 2015) Capt. Timothy Kuehhas, left, commanding officer of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS George Washington (CVN 73), gives a tour of the ship's flag bridge to Adm. Nguyen Van Hien, center, commander of the Vietnam People's Navy, and senior members of his staff. George Washington and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interests of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Ricardo R. Guzman/Released)



Don't need to bring China into a Vietnamese military specific thread, don't you?

China and USA are rivals right now, so of course you won't offer a friendly gesture to your main rival.

Does it make sense to you?

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Don't need to bring China into a Vietnamese military specific thread, don't you?
> 
> China and USA are rivals right now, so of course you won't offer a friendly gesture to your main rival.
> 
> Does it make sense to you?



We think about what US thought, US acts, not China by this.
China could invite anyone if they want, we don't care. We care about what US act as response. Translate to the meaning.

US know everyone follow their response, so they decided not to come as invited.
That's a clear answer of American to our doubt. ( our not always means Vietnam only )


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> We think about what US thought, US acts, not China by this.
> China could invite anyone if they want, we don't care. We care about what US act as response. Translate to the meaning.
> 
> US know everyone follow their response, so they decided not to come as invited.
> That's a clear answer of American to our doubt. ( our not always means Vietnam only )



The US is always hostile towards China, is this anything new?

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US is always hostile towards China, is this anything new?



Not that new, but new things are Vietnam has been inviting to more events which US host, far away from our coast.
That never happen before. 
Like this






We would find out more of these in 2015


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Not that new, but new things are Vietnam has been inviting to more events which US host, far away from our coast.
> That never happen before.
> Like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We would find out more of these in 2015



Because the US is trying to cozy you up, while treating China as a main rival.

Hence the different treatment, do you understand?

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Because the US is trying to cozy you up, while treating China as a main rival.
> 
> Hence the different treatment, do you understand?



Yes !!! Thanks for your explanation. A small question, do you agree with Chinese members always create thread with something like "China created Aegis killer , carrier killer, SLBM ICBM could reach to all cities of USA" ? Sound like North Korea media ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Yes !!! Thanks for your explanation. A small question, do you agree with Chinese members always create thread with something like "China created Aegis killer , carrier killer, SLBM ICBM could reach to all cities of USA" ? Sound like North Korea media ?



The US also has at least 50% of their nukes aiming at China, while the other half aiming at Russia.

This is no secret, but the great powers just don't mention that in a diplomatic way on the table, but under the table, it is full of proxy war.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US also has at least 50% of their nukes aiming at China, while the other half aiming at Russia.
> 
> This is no secret, but the great powers just don't mention that in a diplomatic way on the table, but under the table, it is full of proxy war.



Ok. Get it. But did you see US members here created similar threads as above ? they seem to be neutral ? So who give the source for threatening weapons to Chinese members?


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Ok. Get it. But did you see US members here created similar threads as above ? they seem to be neutral ?



Did we explicitly mention about the US in these threads?

We just opened our ICBM/SLBM threads, we didn't explicitly mention the US.

The US members also can open the threads about their ICBM/SLBM, but they don't have to explicitly mention about China or Russia, since it is quite obvious.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Did we explicitly say that we have to hit all the US cities in these threads?
> 
> We just opened our ICBM/SLBM threads, we didn't explicitly mention the US.
> 
> The US members also can open the threads about their ICBM/SLBM, but they don't have to explicitly mention about China or Russia, since it is quite obvious.



Vietnam is a small country, we always love to hear there's one less big power oppose us.
So let's congrat to the better relationship between Vietnam and USA.
We change from opposing to cooperate. Is it a good thing ?

Why must keep opposing each other ?

Some other we love : North Korea and USA get better, Russia and USA get better , Japan and North Korea ; China and Taiwan ; India and Pakistan
Some others improving : Cuba and USA ; Myanmar and USA


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam is a small country, we always love to hear there's one less big power oppose us.
> So let's congrat to the better relationship between Vietnam and USA.
> We change from opposing to cooperate. Is it a good thing ?
> 
> Why must keep opposing each other ?
> 
> Some other we love : North Korea and USA get better, Russia and USA get better , Japan and North Korea ; China and Taiwan ; India and Pakistan
> Some others improving : Cuba and USA ; Myanmar and USA



There is no true love in the geopolitics, only the permanent national interests.

The US didn't come with you for the true love, but to think about her national interests.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is no true love in the geopolitics, only the permanent national interests.
> 
> The US didn't come with you for the true love, but to think about her national interests.



mutual benefit, I think. If not why VN govt accepted ?


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## Viet

_WSJ confirms Vietnam purchase of 6 gepard frigates._

Asia News
*China’s Neighbors Bulk Up Militaries *
*Despite Beijing’s efforts to cool tensions, many nations prepare for potential conflict *





ENLARGE
Russian-made submarine arrives at Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Bay in 2014. Photo: Xinhua/Zuma Press

By Trefor Moss
Feb. 26, 2015 7:17 p.m. ET
 47 COMMENTS 

MANILA—China’s neighbors are moving forward with the modernization of their militaries with new fighter jets, submarines and other hardware, even as Beijing has tried to tamp down territorial tensions in the region.

The military buildup is an indication that many Asian countries see little reason to adjust their long-term preparations for potential friction with China, despite Beijing’s diplomatic and economic charm offensive.

China made a dramatic shift in its diplomatic approach at a summit in Beijing in November, adopting a more conciliatory tone. This included the first face-to-face meeting between Chinese President  Xi Jinping  and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe since both took power in 2012.

That came after China pledged to invest billions in regional ports and infrastructure, with great potential benefits for its neighbors.

Many Asian nations are participating in those programs or receiving other Chinese aid. But underlying sources of tension haven’t gone away.

It has only been half a year since Vietnamese and Chinese vessels were jostling off islands claimed by both countries after China parked a giant oil rig there. A few months after that, Indian and Chinese troops tussled for weeks in the Himalayas along the countries’ disputed border.

Vietnam recently received the third of six new Russian submarines, valued at about $2 billion in total—a landmark for a country that has never had submarines. It also ordered six Russian frigates and is increasing the size of its Sukhoi fighter-jet fleet to 36 planes.

Smaller nations like Vietnam don’t expect to seriously challenge China’s military, but want to make China think twice before pressing claims.

“At the minimum we have to decrease China’s ability to act with impunity,” a Philippine defense official said, recalling China’s 2012 capture of the disputed Scarborough Shoal.

A Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesman said Vietnam’s military programs weren’t aimed specifically at China. “The purchase of defense equipment is a normal practice of all countries in the world,” said Nguyen Thi Thai Thong.

Better-equipped countries, such as India and Japan, want China to respect them as military equals.

India is establishing a new mountain corps for deployment along its Himalayan boundaries. It is also testing ballistic missiles with a range of over 3,000 miles, which could strike inside China. In January, India test-fired one of the missiles from a mobile launcher for the first time at an island off its northeastern coast.

*Bulking Up*
Asian nations are making big investments in new military hardware. Some of the latest purchases (with seller in parentheses):



*INDIA*


126 Rafale fighter jets (France)
22 AH-64E Apache gunships (U.S.)
8 P-8I Poseidon maritime surveillance aircraft (U.S.)


*INDONESIA*


3 Chang Bogo-class submarines (South Korea)
24 F-16 fighter jets (U.S.)
16 Sukhoi Su-27/Su-30 jets (Russia)
8 AH-64E Apache gunships (U.S.)


*JAPAN*


4 helicopter carriers (Japan)
42 F-35 Lightning II stealth fighters (U.S)
17 V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft (U.S.)


*MALAYSIA*


2 Scorpene submarines (France)
6 Gowind-class frigates (France)


*PHILIPPINES*


12 FA-50 fighter/trainer jets (South Korea)
2 Hamilton-class cutters (U.S.)


*VIETNAM*


6 Kilo-class submarines (Russia)
6 Gepard-class frigates (Russia)
36 Sukhoi Su-30 jets (Russia)
Tokyo is setting up Japan’s first amphibious operations unit to defend East China Sea islands contested by China and is adding 42 F-35 Lightning II stealth fighters. Japan is increasing its defense budget by 2% in the fiscal year starting April 1.

China continues to outpace its neighbors in military spending—its military budget has grown around 10% annually for the past two decades.

The U.S. has encouraged its allies in Asia, particularly Japan, to build up military capability, which takes some pressure off Washington itself and also creates markets for U.S. weaponry.

India’s military hardware paraded before President  Barack Obama  in New Delhi in January included a Boeing Co. P-8I antisubmarine-warfare plane and Lockheed Martin C-130J transport aircraft, which could help rush troops and equipment to India’s Himalayan boundary with China.

Vietnam is poised to receive American surveillance aircraft and other systems as Washington and Hanoi improve diplomatic ties.

The U.S. partially lifted a long-standing arms embargo on Vietnam last October.

Still, a stronger Vietnamese military isn’t likely to deter any future moves by Beijing.

China has been “disconcerted” by Vietnam’s modernization plans, said Tim Huxley, executive director of IISS-Asia, a Singapore-based security think tank. But Zhang Baohui, a politics professor at Lingnan University in Hong Kong, said China is confident of its military superiority over the Vietnamese.

“The buildup of the weaker party won’t much motivate the stronger party,” he said.

Despite complaints from South China Sea neighbors, China continues to reclaim land to build new bases in disputed waters. Last month, Philippine officials said a new island capable of supporting a large Chinese airstrip at Fiery Cross Reef in the contested Spratly Islands was “50% complete.”

Vietnam showed that it, too, remains wary of Chinese activities in contested seas, joining Manila in denouncing Beijing’s land-reclamation projects. Pham Binh Minh, Vietnam’s deputy prime minister, visited Manila in late January for talks about upgrading the two countries’ security ties, partly to help block China’s regional expansion.

China says it has “indisputable sovereignty” over the Spratlys and the waters around them. “The relevant construction and maintenance that the Chinese government does on them are China’s legitimate rights,” the Defense Ministry said.

China has long argued that military modernization is normal. But Beijing has criticized Japan for easing restrictions on its Self-Defense Forces, saying Tokyo is “deliberately fabricating the China threat.” In 2013, after Tokyo launched its second helicopter carrier, China said it was “concerned over Japan’s constant expansion of its military equipment.”

Beijing spent five times more on defense than the ten Southeast Asian countries combined in 2013, according to Sipri, a Swedish security institute, with investments in stealth planes, aircraft carriers and other cutting-edge capabilities.

Meanwhile, its neighbors are also bulking up. The Philippines ordered a dozen Korean fighter jets valued at $410 million, and has earmarked $1.8 billion for new hardware over the next two years, including naval frigates.

Malaysia is in the market for new fighter jets and has recently received its first pair of submarines, bought from France for roughly $2.2 billion. Indonesia has plans to station newly purchased Korean submarines and U.S. Apache gunships near islands it deems vulnerable to Chinese encroachment.

China isn’t the only reason Asian countries are spending more on defense, of course. In Southeast Asia especially, countries have long had weak militaries in need of new equipment just to keep operating. Many of them have their own rivalries as well.

But taken together, the latest spending could just wind up raising the risks of a deadly confrontation if tensions worsen.

Some experts say stronger militaries elsewhere could change the strategic calculus for Beijing eventually, possibly making it more willing to negotiate settlements. “The last thing China wants is to surround itself with modern, capable militaries,” said Richard Javad Heydarian, a political science professor at De La Salle University in Manila. As its neighbors upgrade militarily, “China is bound to face greater risks of unwanted escalation and resistance.”

—Yuka Hayashi contributed to this article.

*Write to *Trefor Moss at Trefor.Moss@wsj.com

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## Viet

the airforce increases patrols over the south china sea. the Su-30MK2 with extra fuel can reach distances as far as 8,000 km.

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## Viet

new generation of guided missiles as israeli made Xtra gradually replacing existing old systems.















after the incident with chinese oil rig, with chinese attacking our patrol vessels, now all vietnam fishery patrol boats are armed with machine guns.

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## BoQ77



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## BoQ77

*Orbiter 3 STUAS*

Brushless electric engine
Payload – camera guided flight
Autonomous launch and recovery
Rapid assembly and disassembly
Minimal training required
*Orbiter 3 STUAS – Payloads and Capabilities*

Tri-sensor fully stabilized payload (day/night/laser designator)
Advanced accurate avionics package (GPS + INS)
Long range digital data link system
Low acoustic signature (covert operation)
 *Orbiter 3 STUAS Specifications*
Operational Altitude (AGL) : 1000 - 3000 Feet
LOS Data Link Range : 100+ Km
Operational Speed : 30 - 70 Knots
Max Speed : 70 Knots
Max Operational Altitude (ASL) : 18,000 Feet
Max Payload Weight : 5.5 Kg (12 Lb)
Endurance : 7 Hours


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## BoQ77



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## BoQ77



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## areal

useless for vietnam, vietnam never has a chance or a ball to use these planes. these planes are only to show that even a country like vietnam can have an air force, nothing else.
do you need advice, you know China is building islands in Nansha, destroy them right at this time. otherwise, Saigon will shortly is under its airbase's threat.


Viet said:


> the airforce increases patrols over the south china sea. the Su-30MK2 with extra fuel can reach distances as far as 8,000 km.
> 
> View attachment 198038
> 
> 
> View attachment 198039
> 
> View attachment 198040
> 
> View attachment 198041
> 
> View attachment 198042
> 
> View attachment 198044
> 
> View attachment 198045


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## Viet

good news: the US government provides 6 more patrol vessels (bringing the total number to 11) and $5 millions more for humanitarian relief operations.

Mỹ viện trợ Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam 11 tàu tuần tiễu - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

is this the new boat?






Cyclone class







US media speculates Vietnam interest on A-29 Super Tucano






and MH-60R Seahawk

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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> good news: the US government provides 6 more patrol vessels (bringing the total number to 11) and $5 millions more for humanitarian relief operations.
> 
> 
> is this the new boat?


may be it is Fast Respond Boat, because Vietnam already receive 5 of them, just 18 mil $ for 5 boat , can not expect for 300 ton ship

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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> may be it is Fast Respond Boat, because Vietnam already receive 5 of them, just 18 mil $ for 5 boat , can not expect for 300 ton ship


from what Major Ly V. Thang says on a conference, the US agrees to provide six modern patrol ships next year, as a gift of 20 years of bilateral relations US-Vietnam. I bet we get bigger ships than the 5 previous ones.

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## Carlosa

Here comes the conflict of interests, it was just a matter of time I guess.

Exclusive: U.S. asks Vietnam to stop helping Russian bomber flights - Yahoo News

@Viet @BoQ77

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## apiSubmarine

Carlosa said:


> Here comes the conflict of interests, it was just a matter of time I guess.
> 
> Exclusive: U.S. asks Vietnam to stop helping Russian bomber flights - Yahoo News



Vietnam will not harm between Russia or USA in SCS. vietnam is fight against china in SCS.


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## apiSubmarine

Russia is Not a enemy for USA in SCS. Vietnam will not harm Russia also in SCS if they ally with the US.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Here comes the conflict of interests, it was just a matter of time I guess.
> 
> Exclusive: U.S. asks Vietnam to stop helping Russian bomber flights - Yahoo News
> 
> @Viet @BoQ77


he he he very hot topic
U.S. asks Vietnam to stop helping Russian bomber flights


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## Carlosa

** Rare picture of the Operation Center inside Vietnam Coast Guard Command. The center can communicate in realtime with at least 6 ships out in the sea, sending operation commands and receiving intelligence/visual reports with no delay. This proves that the Vietnam Coast Guard has built a C3 (Command, Control, Communication) structure, or even higher and more modern. And that's just the Coast Guard, not to mention the Navy or Air Force.







Courtesy of the friendly people at comcom.

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## Viet

*M-46 130mm artillery




*


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## Nike

Vietnam SIPRI list for major acquisition in 2014, credit to original uploader

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## BoQ77

So there are 50 KlubS for Kilo.
EXOCET mm 40 - 3, not 2.

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## William Hung

madokafc said:


> Vietnam SIPRI list for major acquisition in 2014, credit to original uploader
> 
> View attachment 203180
> 
> View attachment 203181



You are quick. SIPRI just updated their database today.


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## NiceGuy

The deal is done, base on SIPRI report, VN agree to buy 2 Sigma from Holland, one is built in Holland, one may be built in VN.



> *Việt Nam mua chiến hạm Sigma: Chấm dứt mọi đồn đoán*
> *(Quốc phòng Việt Nam) - Viện Nghiên cứu Hòa bình Quốc tế Stockholm (SIPRI) vừa công bố, Hải quân Việt Nam đã chính thức ký hợp đồng mua 2 chiến hạm lớp Sigma của Hà Lan.*
> *Việt Nam mua chiến hạm Sigma: Chấm dứt mọi đồn đoán - DVO - Báo Đất Việt*


Google trans

Vietnam to buy warships Sigma : Ending all speculation
( Defense Vietnam ) - Research Institute of the Stockholm International Peace ( SIPRI ) announced , Navy Vietnam has officially signed a contract to buy two ships of the Dutch Sigma class .


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Vietnam SIPRI list for major acquisition in 2014, credit to original uploader
> 
> View attachment 203180
> 
> View attachment 203181


from the list, this is the new improved bps-500 class.





so this lonely ship will be no longer lonely.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> from the list, this is the new improved bps-500 class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so this lonely ship will be no longer lonely.



Noooooo, the BPS-500 will continue to be lonely.

Look at the date on that entry, it refers to the original BPS-500 project, it was originally 2 ships, the second was under construction when the problems in the first one came up and then they dismantled the second ship.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Noooooo, the BPS-500 will continue to be lonely.
> 
> Look at the date on that entry, it refers to the original BPS-500 project, it was originally 2 ships, the second was under construction when the problems in the first one came up and then they dismantled the second ship.


oh too sad...lonely heart.

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## BoQ77



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## Viet

Interfax-AVN: Việt Nam đóng thêm 4 tàu tên lửa Molniya nâng cấp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
4 more Moniya vessels?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Interfax-AVN: Việt Nam đóng thêm 4 tàu tên lửa Molniya nâng cấp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
> 4 more Moniya vessels?



Not bad, I did not expect that, I hope the upgrade will be significant.

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## Viet

Public Security Minister General Tran Dai Quan makes a rare visit to Washington, meeting with US Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson, Assistant Attorney General Leslie Caldwell and our special friend: the commie hater and hardcore neocon John McCain.

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## Thao Nguyen

New assumption about type of ship that Us gonna aid Vietnam: Defiant class

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## William Hung

Thao Nguyen said:


> New assumption about type of ship that Us gonna aid Vietnam: Defiant class



My friend, this is *NOT* an assumption or rumour. The US donating an extra 6 Defiant Class Offshore Patrol Vessels to VietNam has already been confirmed by Janes. And the US also provides full training to the VietNamese crew, for free.

A question to my VietNamese brothers and @Carlosa : What assets has Russia donated to Viet Nam to help deal with the SCS dispute?

So far, I've seen the US issuing a report to reject the 9 dash-lines. And they are donating patrol vessels and providing training to VietNamese officers for free. What about Russia?

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## apiSubmarine

Yorozuya said:


> My friend, this is *NOT* an assumption or rumour. The US donating an extra 6 Defiant Class Offshore Patrol Vessels to VietNam has already been confirmed by Janes. And the US also provides full training to the VietNamese crew, for free.
> 
> A question to my VietNamese brothers and @Carlosa : What assets has Russia donated to Viet Nam to help deal with the SCS dispute?
> 
> So far, I've seen the US issuing a report to reject the 9 dash-lines. And they are donating patrol vessels and providing training to VietNamese officers for free. What about Russia?



Russia provide vietnam some bomber new Tu95 , some long range air to air missile . and groud to ground missile with a map for strike target.


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## luoyue

Yorozuya said:


> A question to my VietNamese brothers and @Carlosa : What assets has Russia donated to Viet Nam to help deal with the SCS dispute?



Russia is ready to provide weapons for Vietnam is OK.


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## William Hung

luoyue said:


> Russia is ready to provide weapons for Vietnam is OK.



I'm talking about free training and donated vessels. Those vessels and training are provided free to Viet Nam from the US (foreign military aid).

Those weapons from Russia were all paid by VietNam. Those are just business deal. Russia selling their weapons to VietNam, just like how Russia have sold weapons and components to China.

So, have Russia donated anything for free to VietNam during these past few years?



apiSubmarine said:


> Russia provide vietnam some bomber new Tu95 , some long range air to air missile . and groud to ground missile with a map for strike target.



Hey friend, I think you are a Chinese. I once read you describing an Island as "Thai Binh *tao*", which means it is written in Chinese grammar. And what you've said about that Tu95 bomber, etc. is not true.

Anyway, nice to meet you.

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## BoQ77

We need more, not less sources of weapon. Donation is owe. 
The positive aspect? Russian has no longer reason to sell at high price, delay delivery.


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## Aqsuperman

Just because they give us 6 boat and some training for free plus some "words" about the sea and we have to cut our ties with Russia (by not letting them use our base for refuel ) ? we have 2 words for that in Vietnamese : NHẢM CỨT :3 1 guy give you a gun for free but wont let you buy anything more from him or his friends ( and have a history of back-stabbing you , placing embargo on you and raising a bunch of jack-*** just wait to kill you ) and then we have this guy that just simply sell you weapon NO CONDITION ATTACHED ..............if you have a working brain you must know the difference between them , VN need weapons , donation is cool too , but plz dont even compare what US and Russian give us then just jump right to the conclusion that US is the better ones , that sound pretty dumb , we need things that go boom , not patrol boats and "words" . Surely China fear our Kh-35 , Yakhont and Kilo more than US boats and "words" , those boats and words cant get philipine back his Scarbarough , so as our islands

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## BoQ77

Vietnam would postpone any request to land IL-78 to Cam Ranh for a while.


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## Viet

luoyue said:


> Russia is ready to provide weapons for Vietnam is OK.


the russians should do more than just selling weapons. that is too litle.



Aqsuperman said:


> Just because they give us 6 boat and some training for free plus some "words" about the sea and we have to cut our ties with Russia (by not letting them use our base for refuel ) ? we have 2 words for that in Vietnamese : NHẢM CỨT :3 1 guy give you a gun for free but wont let you buy anything more from him or his friends ( and have a history of back-stabbing you , placing embargo on you and raising a bunch of jack-*** just wait to kill you ) and then we have this guy that just simply sell you weapon NO CONDITION ATTACHED ..............if you have a working brain you must know the difference between them , VN need weapons , donation is cool too , but plz dont even compare what US and Russian give us then just jump right to the conclusion that US is the better ones , that sound pretty dumb , we need things that go boom , not patrol boats and "words" . Surely China fear our Kh-35 , Yakhont and Kilo more than US boats and "words" , those boats and words cant get philipine back his Scarbarough , so as our islands


relax bro. we all know nothing is free in this world. the US has its intentions when she supports Vietnam. nobody should be naive in thinking, the americans are engels. no, the US just wants to advance their own agenda and hegemony. I don´t think it is a wise move to cut off the tie to Russia. nobody with the right mind will do. at present there is no reason to do so.

the question now is how we can balance our relationship between the interests of america and russia?



BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam would postpone any request to land IL-78 to Cam Ranh for a while.


no, that is not possible in the short term. we have a contract requesting us to fullfill our obligations towards russia.

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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> We need more, not less sources of weapon. Donation is owe.
> The positive aspect? Russian has no longer reason to sell at high price, delay delivery.



Hi friend, I didn't say that VietNam should not buy Russian weapons anymore. I didn't mean it that way. The US never said VietNam cannot buy Russian weapons either. In fact, US allies like South Korea has also acquired Russian equipments. 



Viet said:


> relax bro. we all know nothing is free in this world. the US has its intentions when she supports Vietnam. nobody should be naive in thinking, the americans are engels. no, the US just wants to advance their own agenda and hegemony. I don´t think it is a wise move to cut off the tie to Russia. nobody with the right mind will do. at present there is no reason to do so.



Don't worry brother @Viet, I'm not offended. But be careful though, I'm suspicious whether he is a real Vietnamese or not (some Chinese from VN can write in Vietnamese too) . As you know, members often make a false flag account to troll. He talks like he's already been here for a while, not like a real new member. I've noticed that most new Viet members will directly go and fight with the Chinese members, like in that Chicken corruption thread. But this guy goes directly here in this Viet thread to pick a fight. Also notice how his arguments are almost exactly like what those Chinese members say in the Cam Ranh thread?.... Like how the US is forcing VietNam to cut ties with Russia, cannot have two husbands, US should not be trusted, etc... I think you still remember that exact argument in the Cam Ranh thread.



Viet said:


> I don´t think it is a wise move to cut off the tie to Russia. nobody with the right mind will do. at present there is no reason to do so.



Don't be misled. The US didn't say VietNam must cut their ties with Russia. This is a claim often made by those Chinese members in the Cam Ranh thread.

Besides, Russia is unfortumately declining anyway. VietNam doesn't really have much option.


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## Carlosa

Delays again and then they still talk about ordering a third batch of Gepards from Russia, I hope not.

This is Google translated news.
*Russia delayed handing the Gepard-3.9 for Vietnam*
*(Vietnam defense) Russia said it would back the plan to hand over the new Gepard 3.9 train couples for Vietnam to 2017 and 2018.*


The pair Board Gepard 3.9 next will return home later than expected from 1 to 2 years.
The construction of Gepard 3.9 rocket ship pair Monday for Vietnam's Navy will slowed down from one to two years compared to previous plans, General Manager of Zelenodolsky shipyard, Mr. Renat Mistahov said at the maritime and international aviation LIMA 2015 in Langkawi, Malaysia.

"The transfer of 2 Board Gepard 3.9 next for Vietnam is expected in 2017 and 2018," said Renat Mistahov said.

"At present, both vessels had ended the second phase of construction. We have planned to finish the stage complete stage 3 at the end of April, to to start the download and installation of the equipment on board, "said Mistahov added.

"At present, the number of the 956 was transferred to the Assembly of electrical equipment, also the number of the 957 is performing other tasks.Everything was proceeding as planned, according to the current roadmap, "said Mistahov said and expressed hope that Gepard class will get the attention of many other countries.

Earlier, Chief Engineer working in Zelenodolsk plant, said Yevgeny Matveyev confirmed that the ship was still going smoothly and according to schedule as it should be.

"So far, we haven't seen any problems in the two vessels it all. Everything is on schedule ". Stage 2 test Board Gepard 3.9 Tuesday and Wednesday is expected to take place in the Baltic Sea in mid-2016, will then take place a formal handover ceremony.

However, according to the latest information from the Director General, the 2 handed Zelenodolsky Board Gepard 3.9 Tuesday and Wednesday for Vietnam will move to 2017 and 2018-i.e. slower than previous plans from 1 to 2 years.

Pair the new Gepard 3.9 ships shipyard in Gorky Zelenodolsky run close to the Navy Vietnam on 24/9/2013.

That means closing schedule for t i when testing and handing over 2,200-ton ship pair which Vietnam will take up to 4 years.


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## BoQ77

Surprisingly, Vietnam has built few dozen of this type ( Damen design too )




*Specification::*
Length over all:: 53,25 m
Length moulded: 52,00 m
Beam over all: 10,10 m
Beam moulded: 9,00 m
Depth at side: 4,70 m
Draught aft: 3,20 m
Power: 6000 hp (4472 kW)
Speed: 20-30 knot
Normal speed: 22 knot
The range at max. speed 3100 nautical miles
Capacity of crew 80 - 100 people
Engine 4 x Caterpillar 3512C
Hull structure: Steel
Superstructure Aluminium


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## luoyue

Yorozuya said:


> Don't worry brother @Viet, I'm not offended. But be careful though, I'm suspicious whether he is a real Vietnamese or not (some Chinese from VN can write in Vietnamese too) . As you know, members often make a false flag account to troll. He talks like he's already been here for a while, not like a real new member. I've noticed that most new Viet members will directly go and fight with the Chinese members, like in that Chicken corruption thread. But this guy goes directly here in this Viet thread to pick a fight. Also notice how his arguments are almost exactly like what those Chinese members say in the Cam Ranh thread?.... Like how the US is forcing VietNam to cut ties with Russia, cannot have two husbands, US should not be trusted, etc... I think you still remember that exact argument in the Cam Ranh thread.



you are right.

Could you disclose ur ID, where do you come from ?


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> Just because they give us 6 boat and some training for free plus some "words" about the sea and we have to cut our ties with Russia (by not letting them use our base for refuel ) ?



Hi welcome to PDF. No one here said VN must cut its tie with Russia. The US didn't demand that either.



Aqsuperman said:


> 1 guy give you a gun for free but wont let you buy anything more from him or his friends ( and have a history of back-stabbing you , placing embargo on you and raising a bunch of jack-*** just wait to kill you )



Sorry I'm afraid I'll have to label this as the typical anti-West rhetorics from Chinese state media.



Aqsuperman said:


> and then we have this guy that just simply sell you weapon NO CONDITION ATTACHED



This guy (Russia) have also sold weapons to China, with no condition attached. I've checked the latest SIPRI update, this guy was still transferring military weapons and components to China in 2014.

The US didn't supply anything to China in 2014. You're right, I must know the difference between them.




Aqsuperman said:


> ..............if you have a working brain you must know the difference between them , VN need weapons , donation is cool too , but plz dont even compare what US and Russian give us then just jump right to the conclusion that US is the better ones , that sound pretty dumb ,



I didn't see anyone in this thread jumping right to the conclusion that "the US is the better one". Where did you get that from? I've only asked two questions, which you ignored. So I'll ask again:

1. During the past few years, have Russia donated any assets to VN? Even just things like old spare parts, have they donated anything?

2. Have Russia officially spoken up against the 9 dash lines?

These are just simple questions, with a yes or no answer. Don't know why you can't answer them.




Aqsuperman said:


> we need things that go boom , not patrol boats and "words" . Surely China fear our Kh-35 , Yakhont and Kilo more than US boats and "words" , those boats and words cant get philipine back his Scarbarough , so as our islands



If you think that things that go "boom" will deter China, then why didn't China had any fear in 1988? Surely the Soviets in Cam Ranh at that time had bombers, fighters, frigates and lots of things that go "boom". But what was the result in 1988? can you tell me?

And a big nope to your last claim. China definitely fear the US more than the tiny amount of missiles, Kilos with a vulnerable port base, and the half-toothless Gerpard corvettes in Vietnam's inventory. I'm really sorry to say, but that's the truth.



luoyue said:


> you are right.
> 
> Could you disclose ur ID, where do you come from ?



I've already disclosed where I'm from with the long-term members here.

I don't judge people with the flags they put on. I only judge them with the contents of their posts. So even if you're flying a Viet flag or US flag or PRC flag, they are meaningless to me. And I find it meaningless to fly a flag here.

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## BoQ77

I must tell you : our domestic built Damen Stan Patrol 5009 is stronger than Stan patrol 4207 or Defiant 35 ... which American donates to Vietnam.

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## fadine

Vietnam still make Camranh base for hire, for multi customers, included USA and Russia. Claim of American is only very old kind of issue.

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## BoQ77

189 shipbuilding Haiphong, Vietnam @Carlosa

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> 189 shipbuilding Haiphong, Vietnam @Carlosa



Nice, thank you.


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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> My friend, this is *NOT* an assumption or rumour. The US donating an extra 6 Defiant Class Offshore Patrol Vessels to VietNam has already been confirmed by Janes. And the US also provides full training to the VietNamese crew, for free.
> 
> A question to my VietNamese brothers and @Carlosa : What assets has Russia donated to Viet Nam to help deal with the SCS dispute?
> 
> So far, I've seen the US issuing a report to reject the 9 dash-lines. And they are donating patrol vessels and providing training to VietNamese officers for free. What about Russia?


yes, that is the article:

Sea Platforms
US to transfer fast patrol vessels to Vietnam - IHS Jane's 360

*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
17 March 2015

The Vietnamese Coast Guard (VCG) is to receive six Metal Shark-built Defiant-class fast patrol vessels from the US government to support its efforts to boost maritime security, an official from the US Department of State revealed to _IHS Jane's_ on 18 March.

The deal - the value of which has not been disclosed - is significant in light of the US decision in late 2014 to ease its long-standing military embargo on Vietnam to allow the transfer of "maritime security-related defence articles".

The US State Department official said: "We are working together with Vietnam to deepen our security co-operation, which underpins the economic growth throughout Asia-Pacific.



Thao Nguyen said:


> New assumption about type of ship that Us gonna aid Vietnam: Defiant class


or this metal shark defiant class:

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## Aqsuperman

ok now im going to reply to all of that 
1/ US asked us not to let Russian tanker to depart from Cam Ranh airbase to re-fuel their bomber , which is quite a clear intention to mess with our way to conduct our policies , lets just say you at home and some guy just jump in and give you 6 bucks then ask you to be his toy , Russian and Vietnam have a strategic relationship , told us to severely harm that for 6 lousy ships is stupid and ignorance 
2/ oh no this is no facking anti-western propaganda , THIS IS FACT , US did raise a bunch of crappy groups to overthrown VN goverment (sound just like Lybia and Syria eh ? ) not to mention almost 20 years embargo and even supplied China with clear sateline imagine or our defense lay out in the Northern Border during the 79 war , even give them counter-battery radars .......so you see you can use google for these , all over the internet and not from only our side , US generals and defense officials knew this as well 
3/ So what ? Russian sold weapons with nothing included and that how it work , what about US ? surely he didnt sell China weapons because he is pissed off with China but what to compared here ? a guy sell weapon with no conditions and a guy who dont sell at all (but if he do he will make you his dog ) ? so i must be thankful and love the US for that ? 
4/ And now this shit is interesting , in VN we have a saying that like this "Things that you got free is a worry , things that you got given for none is a debt" we are not beggar , we purchased weapons by our own pocket , Someone give us free that is fine but dont expect us to be your loyal dog , and yeah Russian havent donate anythings for us in years but our navy our airforce our air-defense are born from equipments that Russia give us free of charge , If you want to compare the number of equipments we got from US and Russia for free let started since the birth of our nation , not in recent years , and even when we do that type of math , Japan is surely the guy we place our gratitude in (more than 30 ships in both patrol and fishing type ) 
5/ Hey 1988 skirmish is between our navy and China and its far from Cam Ranh , we got practically nothing back then , our ships are old and with the US shake their hand with China , should the Soviet respond in force that mean WW3 , and 1 more things CHINA DONT GIVE A CRAPPY A BOUT US TODAY , did you read my comment ? Philipine which is a ally of US got mug by China , google Scarborough confrontation between china and philipine you will see how miserable Philipine Navy against China , and where is the al-mighty US navy ? should they attack and reclaim that for their ally ? if you understand US action then the Soviet action back then is normal , and now with those pathetic Hamilton given to them by the US , Philipine Navy look "strong" indeed :v much stronger than out anti-ship missles and submarine :v WAKE UP US navy cant even dare to even come close to defend Philipine by force ( only "words" which is useless as shit , that why Russia never use his mouth , he sell his allies weapons that can do the job , not "donating" crappy boat and sell stripped Coast Guard ships , ..........."words" and "donation".........surely that would come in handy in the action to re-take the islands :v


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## BoQ77

*Damen teams with Metal Shark to target US sales*
*Jon Rosamond, London* - IHS Jane's Navy International
05 February 2015
*Significance*

Metal Shark is the sixth US company licensed to build Damen-designed vessels
Damen says the licensing agreements will help it compete for US FMS programmes
Netherlands-based shipbuilder Damen Shipyards Group has strengthened its position in the United States' naval, coastguard, and Foreign Military Sales (FMS) markets by licensing its vessel designs to Louisiana boat-builder Metal Shark Aluminum Boats.

The agreement allows Metal Shark to offer a wide variety of steel and aluminium-hull Damen designs, from inshore and offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) to commercial products such as fast crew suppliers, wind farm support vessels, and tugboats.

The US company has already applied its Defiant brand name to three patrol vessels from Damen's proven Stan Patrol (SP) range; the *50 m-long SP 5009*, the* 43 m SP 4207*, and the *31 m SP 3307* are being marketed as the *165 Defiant*, *140 Defiant*, and *100 Defiant, *respectively.

Defiant 100 / SP 3307




Damen FCS 3307 Security 





Damen FCS 3307 Security built in 189 shipyard, Vietnam




















Viet said:


> yes, that is the article:
> 
> Sea Platforms
> US to transfer fast patrol vessels to Vietnam - IHS Jane's 360
> 
> *Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
> 17 March 2015
> 
> The Vietnamese Coast Guard (VCG) is to receive six Metal Shark-built Defiant-class fast patrol vessels from the US government to support its efforts to boost maritime security, an official from the US Department of State revealed to _IHS Jane's_ on 18 March.
> 
> The deal - the value of which has not been disclosed - is significant in light of the US decision in late 2014 to ease its long-standing military embargo on Vietnam to allow the transfer of "maritime security-related defence articles".
> 
> The US State Department official said: "We are working together with Vietnam to deepen our security co-operation, which underpins the economic growth throughout Asia-Pacific.
> 
> 
> or this metal shark defiant class:
> 
> View attachment 204412

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> A question to my VietNamese brothers and @Carlosa : What assets has Russia donated to Viet Nam to help deal with the SCS dispute?



ZERO !!!!

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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> ok now im going to reply to all of that
> 1/ US asked us not to let Russian tanker to depart from Cam Ranh airbase to re-fuel their bomber , which is quite a clear intention to mess with our way to conduct our policies , lets just say you at home and some guy just jump in and give you 6 bucks then ask you to be his toy , Russian and Vietnam have a strategic relationship , told us to severely harm that for 6 lousy ships is stupid and ignorance



Hi again my friend, thanks for replying. I don't see how your analogy relates to what is going on. The US didn't ask VietNam to become its toy. The US never asked VietNam to break its tie with Russia either. The 6 ships is not for in exchange of breaking the VN-Russia partnership. They are still free no matter what VietNam decides to do. You sound a lot like those PRC haters talking in that Cam Ranh thread.



> 2/ oh no this is no facking anti-western propaganda , THIS IS FACT , US did raise a bunch of crappy groups to overthrown VN goverment (sound just like Lybia and Syria eh ? ) not to mention almost 20 years embargo and even supplied China with clear sateline imagine or our defense lay out in the Northern Border during the 79 war , even give them counter-battery radars .......so you see you can use google for these , all over the internet and not from only our side , US generals and defense officials knew this as well



My friend, this is selective reasoning. You are cherry picking a small period of time to suits your argument. You mentioned an embargo that first started over 30 years ago and is no longer in place. Supplying military equipments to China in 1979? That's also over 30 years ago.

Why don't you mention the 90s, when Russia supplied a significant amount of weapons to China? And surely those Su-27 kit, Kilos, Frigates are more threatening to VN than those US radars?

And if you mention the period from 1930-40 where VN-CN was friendly, you can conclude that VN should change their mind and ally with China today.



> 3/ So what ? Russian sold weapons with nothing included and that how it work ,



Previously, you've mentioned how bad the US is because they supplied China back in 1979. Now you admit Russia also supplied China but only say "so what?"




> what about US ? surely he didnt sell China weapons because he is pissed off with China but what to compared here ? a guy sell weapon with no conditions and a guy who dont sell at all (but if he do he will make you his dog ) ? so i must be thankful and love the US for that ?



No one here has ever asked you to be thankful to the US. Also, please don't use the derogatory name "dog". Are you implying Japan and South Korea are "dogs"? last time I've read, Viet Nam was begging these two "dogs" for foreign investments and old secondhand patrol boats. So I suggest you not to use the word "dog" you label these US allies.



> 4/ And now this shit is interesting , in VN we have a saying that like this "Things that you got free is a worry , things that you got given for none is a debt" we are not beggar , we purchased weapons by our own pocket , Someone give us free that is fine but dont expect us to be your loyal dog , and yeah Russian havent donate anythings for us in years but our navy our airforce our air-defense are born from equipments that Russia give us free of charge , If you want to compare the number of equipments we got from US and Russia for free let started since the birth of our nation , not in recent years , and even when we do that type of math , Japan is surely the guy we place our gratitude in (more than 30 ships in both patrol and fishing type )



Your reasoning here is very inconsistent here. You first gave me this Viet saying,

"Things that you got free is a worry , things that you got given for none is a debt"

But then you claim VN got lots of free weapons from the Soviet. So were they a debt/worry or not?



> 5/ Hey 1988 skirmish is between our navy and China and its far from Cam Ranh , we got practically nothing back then , our ships are old and with the US shake their hand with China , should the Soviet respond in force that mean WW3 ,



So according to this logic, the US is correct to not attack China for the Philippines because it will start WW3? Remember, what ever excuse you give to the Soviet, the same excuse can also be used for the US.



> and 1 more things CHINA DONT GIVE A CRAPPY A BOUT US TODAY , did you read my comment ? Philipine which is a ally of US got mug by China , google Scarborough confrontation between china and philipine you will see how miserable Philipine Navy against China , and where is the al-mighty US navy ? should they attack and reclaim that for their ally ? if you understand US action then the Soviet action back then is normal , and now with those pathetic Hamilton given to them by the US , Philipine Navy look "strong" indeed :v much stronger than out anti-ship missles and submarine :v WAKE UP US navy cant even dare to even come close to defend Philipine by force



The US stayed out of the SS skirmish because the Philippines and China are member of UNCLOS which have a special procedure to resolve the dispute (Arbitration Tribunal) that exclude the use of a military interventions. The US had to respect that and they have indeed helped the Philippines with the ongoing Arbitration case by reporting their own SCS analysis.



> ( only "words" which is useless as shit , that why Russia never use his mouth , he sell his allies weapons that can do the job ,



Russia also sells weapons to China... Does this mean Russia is an ally of China? selling weapons to help China "do the job"?



> not "donating" crappy boat and sell stripped Coast Guard ships , ..........."words" and "donation".........surely that would come in handy in the action to re-take the islands :v



Come on, you don't have to be dishonest with me. We know in every diplomatic meeting that Viet officials have with foreign diplomats, VN always ask the foreign officials to publically denounce China's action in the SCS. The difference is that US diplomats are usually always willing to denounce it while the Russia never.

You think donations and "words" are cheap but the Viet officials think different.

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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> My friend, this is *NOT* an assumption or rumour. The US donating an extra 6 Defiant Class Offshore Patrol Vessels to VietNam has already been confirmed by Janes. And the US also provides full training to the VietNamese crew, for free.
> 
> A question to my VietNamese brothers and @Carlosa : What assets has Russia donated to Viet Nam to help deal with the SCS dispute?
> 
> So far, I've seen the US issuing a report to reject the 9 dash-lines. And they are donating patrol vessels and providing training to VietNamese officers for free. What about Russia?


I'm very curious about this guy, why every time talking about relationship between VN and US, he must be mention about russia, is that some kind of jealous


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> ZERO !!!!



Don't worry, there are still many more opportunities to hand out freebies. Maybe the Russian just want to tease @Viet and keep him guessing what goodies are heading his way. 



Thao Nguyen said:


> I'm very curious about this guy, why every time talking about relationship between VN and US, he must be mention about russia, is that some kind of jealous



What do you mean everytime? I've only asked one question to find out whether Russia has provided any free supplies during the past few years (because VN always keep things secret) but someone jumped in to sue me.

I've been on PDF for over a year now so you should not be curious about me anymore. Actually you've been a member since last year but have only posted a few posts in this Viet military thread so I'm curious about you. Are you a spy for some country?

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## BoQ77

My 2 cents, it's better to know that US no longer consider Vietnam as enemy. That's why they offer the weapons, nuclear technology.

And it's not overnight, Vietnam become Russian enemy.

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## Bornubus

plZ post a pic of Vietnamese Special Forces


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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> Don't worry, there are still many more opportunities to hand out freebies. Maybe the Russian just want to tease @Viet and keep him guessing what goodies are heading his way.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean everytime? I've only asked one question to find out whether Russia has provided any free supplies during the past few years (because VN always keep things secret) but someone jumped in to sue me.


So, you mean that Russia is bad, abandon Vietnam, US is helping Vietnam?
So when Vietnam need to by P3c, where are they?
Vietnam buy weapon to defend and pay money, it's not for free. why they did not reply, we need weapon to defend, not some kind of for-show ships, Russia helping Vietnam more than that, they speed up the production process so we can get kilo earlier than contract, and not only sell to us not weapon, they also give us technology to make it by ourselves. Can US do that or they still keeping lethal weapon embago to us
One more thing you need to know that Vietnam buy weapon from Russia some time by credit, it not free, but it's more useful to us than some free stuff from US.



BoQ77 said:


> My 2 cents, it's better to know that US no longer consider Vietnam as enemy. That's why they offer the weapons, nuclear technology.
> 
> And it's not overnight, Vietnam become Russian enemy.


only in your dream


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## Viet

Air Platforms

*Vietnam, Israel sign defence co-operation accord*
*Jon Grevatt* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
03 March 2015

Vietnam and Israel have signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) on defence co-operation, the Vietnam Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced on 3 March.

The agreement was signed in Hanoi by Vietnam's deputy minister of defence, Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, and Dan Harel, the director general of Israel's MoD.

The Vietnam MoD did not provide details about the accord but said it furthers recent bilateral efforts, which have focused on deepening collaboration across several sectors including military-to-military activities, technology transfers, and industrial partnerships.

In 2014 Israel and Vietnam also announced a plan to establish a joint committee to pinpoint areas of potential defence trade and related collaboration.

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## Thao Nguyen

Bornubus said:


> plZ post a pic of Vietnamese Special Forces


BTW
Special force in army( Đặc Công)



















Special force in Police

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## Bornubus

Thao Nguyen said:


> BTW
> Special force in army( Đặc Công)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special force in Police


Deadly

They looks same as our Gurkha Soldiers ---- I thought they were equipped with Israeli Tavors


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## William Hung

Thao Nguyen said:


> So, you mean that Russia is bad, abandon Vietnam, US is helping Vietnam?



My friend, I've only posted a confirmation from Janes about the 6 defiant class. Then I've only asked one question whether Russia has donated anything these years. It was a simple yes/no answer question.

Read it over again, when did I say Russia is bad and have abandoned VietNam? That claim was not from me, maybe it was already in your mind?



> So when Vietnam need to by P3c, where are they?



I have not heard about VN making an official order for the P3c yet. Can you provide a link? Otherwise, what's the point of asking where they are if they haven't been ordered yet?



> Vietnam buy weapon to defend and pay money, it's not for free. why they did not reply, we need weapon to defend, not some kind of for-show ships,



You mean VN made an official order for P3c but the US haven't replied? Can you provide a link for this?



> Russia helping Vietnam more than that, they speed up the production process so we can get kilo earlier than contract, and not only sell to us not weapon, they also give us technology to make it by ourselves.



I've heard the Gepard has just been delayed. It's good that the Kilo delivery was very quick, but China received their Kilos 10 years earlier. They've also received tech to assemble Su-27 decades ago.



> Can US do that or they still keeping lethal weapon embago to us



You want to license built US weapons now? Brother (or are you a sister?), it must take times. Just like if the US were to ask to use Cam Ranh, it must take times right? You can't just expect to ask today and be given by tommorow.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> My 2 cents, it's better to know that US no longer consider Vietnam as enemy. That's why they offer the weapons, nuclear technology.
> 
> And it's not overnight, *Vietnam become Russian enemy*.


that will be the most stupid thing if we do so. no way.



Thao Nguyen said:


> BTW
> Special force in army( Đặc Công)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Special force in Police


honestly, I always laugh at these pictures. our people should learn some modern techniques from america and europe police and armed forces.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> that will be the most stupid thing if we do so. no way.
> 
> 
> honestly, I always laugh at these pictures. our people should learn some modern techniques from america and europe police and armed forces.


what kind of techniques


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> what kind of techniques


first, give the boys modern gadgets instead of mud. second, send them to america and europe.

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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> My friend, I've only posted a confirmation from Janes about the 6 defiant class. Then I've only asked one question whether Russia has donated anything these years. It was a simple yes/no answer question.
> 
> Read it over again, when did I say Russia is bad and have abandoned VietNam? That claim was not from me, maybe it was already in your mind?
> 
> 
> 
> I have not heard about VN making an official order for the P3c yet. Can you provide a link? Otherwise, what's the point of asking where they are if they haven't been ordered yet?
> 
> 
> 
> You mean VN made an official order for P3c but the US haven't replied? Can you provide a link for this?
> 
> 
> I've heard the Gepard has just been delayed. It's good that the Kilo delivery was very quick, but China received their Kilos 10 years earlier. They've also received tech to assemble Su-27 decades ago.
> 
> 
> You want to license built US weapons now? Brother (or are you a sister?), it must take times. Just like if the US were to ask to use Cam Ranh, it must take times right? You can't just expect to ask today and be given by tommorow.


I don't see how is your point when you always linking more than the content, talk about VN and US, you link to Russia, and now China.You said you did not mean Russia abandon Vietnam, but why you take the example about Russial sell weapon to China as some kind of back-stabbing to VN.
Did you see any US weapon help VN protect our country ( not the weapon we got from Vietnam war).


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> honestly, I always laugh at these pictures. our people should learn some modern techniques from america and europe police and armed forces.


 Good weapon-good soldier wt much cheaper cost usually win in the battle. Just like T-34 Soviet defeat Nazi Panzer by number coz T-34 is much cheaper and can produce much faster .

VN can train 20 sappers with the same amount of Money to train one Navy Seal of US while one VN sapper can fight as well as one US Navy seal in VN war

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## William Hung

Thao Nguyen said:


> I don't see how is your point when you always linking more than the content, talk about VN and US, you link to Russia, and now China.You said you did not mean Russia abandon Vietnam, but why you take the example about Russial sell weapon to China as some kind of back-stabbing to VN.
> Did you see any US weapon help VN protect our country ( not the weapon we got from Vietnam war).



My friend, I really don't see why this needs to drag on like this. I've only asked one simple question with a yes or no answer. Then it should have ended there. I'm not here to argue against anyone.

No where did I said Russia has abandoned VN, etc. I did not make any claims about the US, Russia or China here. All of my responds were only direct replies to you and that other new member. For example, he argued that Russia was the true ally because they have sold weapons to VN so I just asked him whether that means that Russia is also a true ally of China because they have sold them weapons too. So I'm not making any claims, I'm just replying to your claims.

Actually I don't want to argue in this thread at all. If I was given an answer in the first place, I would have stop. I don't know why you would drag this out like this.

Also, I'm not sure if you and aqsuperman are real new Vietnamese members or just multi-account flamers here to start a fight. I'm still suspicious of you since you only stay here in this thread to start a fight but I have never seen you arguing anywhere else in the forums like the other Vietnamese members usually do (I'm not encouraging you to do it).

So I must respectfully end this debate here since this was not what I had intended.

Hope you understand.

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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> My friend, I really don't see why this needs to drag on like this. I've only asked one simple question with a yes or no answer. Then it should have ended there. I'm not here to argue against anyone.
> 
> No where did I said Russia has abandoned VN, etc. I did not make any claims about the US, Russia or China here. All of my responds were only direct replies to you and that other new member. For example, he argued that Russia was the true ally because they have sold weapons to VN so I just asked him whether that means that Russia is also a true ally of China because they have sold them weapons too. So I'm not making any claims, I'm just replying to your claims.
> 
> Actually I don't want to argue in this thread at all. If I was given an answer in the first place, I would have stop. I don't know why you would drag this out like this.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure if you and aqsuperman are real new Vietnamese members or just multi-account flamers here to start a fight. I'm still suspicious of you since you only stay here in this thread to start a fight but I have never seen you arguing anywhere else in the forums like the other Vietnamese members usually do (I'm not encouraging you to do it).
> 
> So I must respectfully end this debate here since this was not what I had intended.
> 
> Hope you understand.


First, I don't want to waste my time for argue about something, my point is Vietnam can be friend with all other countries in the world, as long as they don't harm Vietnam, and I don't want to compare one friend with other friend like that


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> First, I don't want to waste my time for argue about something, my point is Vietnam can be friend with all other countries in the world, as long as they don't harm Vietnam, and* I don't want to compare one friend with other friend like that*


you should begin to learn some basic 1*1 in foreign policy:

- there is no free lunch.
- there is no engel in this world.
- there are no permanent friends, just permanent interests.
- nations act on their own national egoistic interests, not on friendship to other.
- nations bound to cooperate when their interests overlap.
- friend today, foe tomorrow. thing can change quickly. see russia and ukraine.
- russia cannot give vietnam massive economic and military aid that the US promises.
- we are not going to abandon russia. we keep the status quo, but in some fields we may need some calibrations.

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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> you should begin to learn some basic 1*1 in foreign policy:
> 
> - there is no free lunch.
> - there is no engel in this world.
> - there are no permanent friends, just permanent interests.
> - nations act on their own national egoistic interests, not on friendship to other.
> - nations bound to cooperate when their interests overlap.
> - friend today, foe tomorrow. thing can change quickly. see russia and ukraine.
> - russia cannot give vietnam massive economic and military aid that the US promises.
> - we are not going to abandon russia. we keep the status quo, but in some fields we may need some calibrations.


Totally agrre with that, I just hate some person who want Vietnam ignore Russia and become US ally just because US provide VN some free ships

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## BoQ77

Thao Nguyen said:


> I don't see how is your point when you always linking more than the content, talk about VN and US, you link to Russia, and now China.You said you did not mean Russia abandon Vietnam, but why you take the example about Russial sell weapon to China as some kind of back-stabbing to VN.
> Did you see any US weapon help VN protect our country ( not the weapon we got from Vietnam war).




There're some support in secret. I can't list all for you, because I know little.
Do you know:
- By accident, we know recently the crashed UH-1A was serviced in USA in 2012. It's logical, because they can't fly now without American support.
- By wikileak we know American give support to create training facilities of Vietnam Coast Guards ( formerly Vietnam Marine Police ), send their instructors to Vietnam, and bring our guys to American for training since 2007-2008.
I could share you many photos for that activity.
Not suddenly, they provided us LRAD devices mount into our Coast Guard ships, or fast patrol boat. That's a long procedure.
- Without American ease of ban for weapon sale, Vietnam can't get the Sigma-class corvette/frigate or similar ones. And Airbus C295M too.

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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> Totally agrre with that, I just hate some person who want Vietnam ignore Russia and become US ally just because US provide VN some free ships


there are no signs we weaken our strategic relationship to the russians. though we need some calibrations. the US donates the 6 vessels as a gift for the coast guard, a gift of 20 years of normalisation. there is no US demand in this gift. I think the US just wants to test our reaction, and of the russians.



NiceGuy said:


> Good weapon-good soldier wt much cheaper cost usually win in the battle. Just like T-34 Soviet defeat Nazi Panzer by number coz T-34 is much cheaper and can produce much faster .
> 
> VN can train 20 sappers with the same amount of Money to train one Navy Seal of US while one VN sapper can fight as well as one US Navy seal in VN war


we should go with the time. the US navy seal is great. or how about the GSG9 and KSK, the german special forces.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> we should go with the time. the US navy seal is great. or how about the GSG9 and KSK, the german special forces.
> View attachment 204793
> View attachment 204791



Could anyone post picture of Vietnam naval sappers with full arm?


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> we should go with the time. the US navy seal is great. or how about the GSG9 and KSK, the german special forces.
> View attachment 204793
> View attachment 204791


VN has hot, wet, rainy weather wt lots of mud every where, you will be exhausted quickly if wearing this suit and u will be sunk in the mud,too.






So, wearing like VN sapper is the best choice to fight in the place like VN-Laos-Camb-Thailand etc.

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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> we should go with the time. the US navy seal is great. or how about the GSG9 and KSK, the german special forces.
> View attachment 204793
> View attachment 204791


YES, but with Vietnam Eviroment, i think they cannot wear this uniform for 1 day if they fight in the jungle


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## Aqsuperman

except IED troops none of our force wear anything remotely heavy (the Naval Infantry and Border Troops do wear some protection but that it) , in VN war US troops weared vest , backpack , guns , nades , kits ,...........we weared a pant and a AK :3


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> YES, but with Vietnam Eviroment, i think they cannot wear this uniform for 1 day if they fight in the jungle


you are right. we need stuffs with aircon included


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## Soryu

BoQ77 said:


> My 2 cents, it's better to know that US no longer consider Vietnam as enemy. That's why they offer the weapons, nuclear technology.
> 
> And it's not overnight, Vietnam become Russian enemy.



They consider us as a partner to counter sombody, as they always treat their allies.



Carlosa said:


> ZERO !!!!



@Yorozuya

They donated enough to us in past, now we should stand on our own.

Russian sell to our some of their best stuff in time, that's great enough. Depend on that, we can build our forces, strong enough for USA consider our as great potential partner in defense cooperation.

P/S: well, I know all you guys knew that, just my 2 cent ...

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## Triumfvn

NiceGuy said:


> The deal is done, base on SIPRI report, VN agree to buy 2 Sigma from Holland, one is built in Holland, one may be built in VN.
> 
> 
> Google trans
> 
> Vietnam to buy warships Sigma : Ending all speculation
> ( Defense Vietnam ) - Research Institute of the Stockholm International Peace ( SIPRI ) announced , Navy Vietnam has officially signed a contract to buy two ships of the Dutch Sigma class .


Vietnam considers for next 2 Gepard-3.9, total could be order around 6. 
soha.vn/quan-su/viet-nam-dat-mua-toi-6-tau-ho-ve-ten-lua-gepard-39-20150305113306714.htm

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## Carlosa

Triumfvn said:


> Vietnam considers for next 2 Gepard-3.9, total could be order around 6.
> soha.vn/quan-su/viet-nam-dat-mua-toi-6-tau-ho-ve-ten-lua-gepard-39-20150305113306714.htm



VN is going to order another 4 Molniya class ships to be made under license and they are supposed to have upgraded weapon systems, do you have any details about that upgrade?


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## Viet

Kraz-6322






Renault 4x4


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## Viet

Nguyễn Thị Thùy Anh
the beautiful face of vietnam coast guard

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## Viet

Major Lý.V.Thắng reveals at a meeting future Vietnam and US coast guard cooperation.






maybe we´ll see this baby soon.

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## Viet

young VPA officers on a visit to the 6th PLA armored devision





the prime minister on a visit to new zealand





a special ops man (equipped with a micro-Uzi and locally produced Type-IIIA bulletproof armor).





hangar

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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> Major Lý.V.Thắng reveals at a meeting future Vietnam and US coast guard cooperation.
> 
> View attachment 205302
> 
> 
> maybe we´ll see this baby soon.
> View attachment 205303


check the previous post, you are dreaming, like this one only




or this


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> check the previous post, you are dreaming, like this one only
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this


he he he...I mean if we have agreed to do joint patrols with the boys of the US coast guard. maybe they dispatch some nice boats such as this one I posted.


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> VN is going to order another 4 Molniya class ships to be made under license and they are supposed to have upgraded weapon systems, do you have any details about that upgrade?


not yet, but may be just control system, may be expect that new ship can operate KH-35UV version



Viet said:


> he he he...I mean if we have agreed to do joint patrols with the boys of the US coast guard. maybe they dispatch some nice boats such as this one I posted.


sure, joint- patrol can become more frequently between VN and US, may be other countries in SCS too


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## Gabriel92

@Viet @Thao Nguyen @Carlosa @NiceGuy @Aqsuperman

According to this news,Vietnam ordered (despite russian pressures) a first batch of 18 CAESAR artillery systems. (108 planned).



> Et les perspectives semblent bonnes, notamment au Vietnam, qui, malgré les pressions russes, aurait finalement choisi le Caesar. Il s’agirait d’une première commande de 18 systèmes avec une cible totale de 108.



L'industrie terrestre face aux nouvelles concurrences-TTU

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## liubang

According to globalfire (which is kinda weird website), I believe we move up a few spots since last year (can't remember how many spots exactly). I am asking as an ignorant person, in term of navy among the ASEAN, where do we rank currently seeing that everyone is buying up on submarines and such.

That website seemed incredibly shitty because they have North Korea as first in term of navy. What....


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## dichoi

our water territory is bigger than our soil territory. Upgrading navy we have do it step by step...


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## liubang

dichoi said:


> our water territory is bigger than our soil territory. Upgrading navy we have do it step by step...



Well, we improved greatly in the past years. When the first kilo subs arrive in Vietnam, all the articles are saying we having the best modern fleet in Southeast Asia. But since then, everyone are buying subs. I wonder how that will affect things. Also, do we have capitals to keep on expanding?? Because just expanding at the current rate is pretty awesome. But I doubt it will last.

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## Aqsuperman

In term of subs in Southeast Asia , VN currently hold the numerous and most modern subs , the rest either have no subs at all or in the process of buying ones . While some countries do possessed subs before , they are old and have limited capability ( like the Archer )


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## William Hung

^^^ 

In terms of numbers, Singapore currently has the largest submarine fleet in South East Asia: 4 Challenger class and 2 upgraded Archer class. Plus 2 modern Type 218SG currently on order. 

VietNam has only been operating the Kilos since last year while Singapore has been operating submarines over a decade ago. Viet Nam currently does not even possess a sub support/rescue ship, it had to sign an agreement with Singapore to come and assist if a Viet Kilo get into an accident. Also, the Singaporean Archer has been upgraded with modern sensors and AIP.

 at the "have limited capability like the Archer" comment.

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## Aqsuperman

Wrong  Singapore retired 2 of them on 11 March (Challenger and Centurion) , and im talking about the current number , if you do that type of math (including retired and on order) then VN have 6 Kilo and 2 Yugo , and even after the updated , Archer still have to rely on torpedo while Kilo can use both torpedo and anti-ship missle (Club-S) , and finally Archer hulls are more than 20 years sold (Ex Swedish since 87 )...........there is a limit to how much a upgrade can help , sure its may be still useful but unless you chop it out and replace everything , the weapon and navigation system cant compete on pair with later subs , especially Improved Kilo for VN (636MV) that contains GE2-01 radar and MGK 400E sonar that made it even stronger than original Kilo .........and im talking about the fleet strengh not about search and rescue abilities


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> Wrong  Singapore retired 2 of them on 11 March (Challenger and Centurion) , and im talking about the current number ,



Oh you're right, 2 Challengers has just been retired, my mistake. But still, that's a total of 4 submarines (2 Challenger + 2 Archer) which is more than the current 3 Kilos in VN.



> and even after the updated , Archer still have to rely on torpedo while Kilo can use both torpedo and anti-ship missle (Club-S) , and finally Archer hulls are more than 20 years sold (Ex Swedish since 87 )...........there is a limit to how much a upgrade can help , sure its may be still useful but unless you chop it out and replace everything , the weapon and navigation system cant compete on pair with later subs , especially Improved Kilo for VN (636MV) that contains GE2-01 radar and MGK 400E sonar that made it even stronger than original Kilo .........and im talking about the fleet strengh not about search and rescue abilities



As for the Archer VS. Kilo, both has advantages and disadvantages. Kilo can launch Clubs, Archers has AIP, etc. Archer has been modernised with new sonars, etc. Which one is better? Neither of us really know until both of them duke it out.

But in terms of submarine fleet capability as a whole (equipments+crew), I'd put my money on the Singaporean since they have been operating theirs for over 15 years while VN has only been operating the Kilo since last year.

I mentioned the sub rescue support agreement to highlight how noob the Vietnamese fleet are. Meaning, VN still need to rely on Singapore for basic things like sub rescue operation.

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## Aqsuperman

1/ One thing i forgot to mention that 2 of our Yugo still in active duty- so that 5 in total 
2/ Before the actual purchase in 2009 , Our crew have been in Russia for 4-6 years (maybe longer for specialist tasks) to learn how to operate the subs (both in class room and in actual subs) plus the new tech and skills , in my view they are pretty familiar with the subs before their delivery , and my point is : experience in a old car ( a 20 years old ones :3 ) cant help you beat a new car 
3/ We are also buiding many specialize ships to rescue our subs in time of need (I do have a picture of 1 type but If I post it i might got an ***-kicking by C2 so sorrry ) In the end of day , as long as our safety protocols are met , there will be no need of a rescue operation

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## liubang

So how would you rank the submarine types that in existence among the ASEAN and those that are being purchase now. Will the Indonesian subs are better since if going by dollar amounts, it seemed like their is more expensive (if I recalled correctly).

Also, with all these strategic/comprehensive relationship, what is Dung going for?? Some richer countries is more obvious like India's credit, Japan's donation, to Australia's training. What is the ultimate objective for all these diplomatic missions?


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## NarThoD

liubang said:


> So how would you rank the submarine types that in existence among the ASEAN and those that are being purchase now. Will the Indonesian subs are better since if going by dollar amounts, it seemed like their is more expensive (if I recalled correctly).


Nah i admit we're still lacking Subs to guard our vast ocean, but buying three and a license to build it locally can be a huge step for our navy. Ideally we're need minimal 12 subs.


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## Aqsuperman

I always prefer firepower :3 a subs now must have ability to mount missiles attack , having that ability will help them engage long range enemy from safe home water , "guerrilla on the sea"  of course strong sonar and steath are also required


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## Viet

Gabriel92 said:


> @Viet @Thao Nguyen @Carlosa @NiceGuy @Aqsuperman
> 
> According to this news,Vietnam ordered (despite russian pressures) a first batch of 18 CAESAR artillery systems. (108 planned).
> 
> L'industrie terrestre face aux nouvelles concurrences-TTU


why french and not german howitzer?
the german gun (panzerhaubitzer 2000) would be a much better choice for our army, in terms of fire rate, accuracy, distance and protection for the crew.





Nurses


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## Gabriel92

Viet said:


> why french and not german howitzer?
> the german gun (panzerhaubitzer 2000) would be a much better choice for our army, in terms of fire rate, accuracy, distance and protection for the crew.
> View attachment 205775



The CAESAR has a range of 4.5 km to 50km,can fire 6-8 rounds/minute,it can be transported by aircrafts such as the C130,and if i'm not wrong less expensive than the PZH2000.
The CAESAR would be a better choice for Vietnam.
(A unit of eight Caesar self-propelled artillery vehicles can dispense more than 1t of projectiles in one minute..)

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## Viet

Gabriel92 said:


> The CAESAR has a range of 4.5 km to 50km,can fire 6-8 rounds/minute,it can be transported by aircrafts such as the C130,and if i'm not wrong less expensive than the PZH2000.
> The CAESAR would be a better choice for Vietnam.
> (A unit of eight Caesar self-propelled artillery vehicles can dispense more than 1t of projectiles in one minute..)


ok. in any case, the caesar will be the most powerful howitzer than anything we currently have in inventory.

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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> 1/ One thing i forgot to mention that 2 of our Yugo still in active duty- so that 5 in total
> 2/ Before the actual purchase in 2009 , Our crew have been in Russia for 4-6 years (maybe longer for specialist tasks) to learn how to operate the subs (both in class room and in actual subs) plus the new tech and skills , in my view they are pretty familiar with the subs before their delivery , and my point is : experience in a old car ( a 20 years old ones :3 ) cant help you beat a new car
> 3/ We are also buiding many specialize ships to rescue our subs in time of need (I do have a picture of 1 type but If I post it i might got an ***-kicking by C2 so sorrry ) In the end of day , as long as our safety protocols are met , there will be no need of a rescue operation



Yugo class sub..... Haizz.

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## Carlosa

Gabriel92 said:


> The CAESAR has a range of 4.5 km to 50km,can fire 6-8 rounds/minute,it can be transported by aircrafts such as the C130,and if i'm not wrong less expensive than the PZH2000.
> The CAESAR would be a better choice for Vietnam.
> (A unit of eight Caesar self-propelled artillery vehicles can dispense more than 1t of projectiles in one minute..)



Do you know how much is the typical cost of Caesar per unit?

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## Gabriel92

Carlosa said:


> Do you know how much is the typical cost of Caesar per unit?



Accoring to this,the unit cost of the CAESAR is € 2.5M

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## Carlosa

Gabriel92 said:


> Accoring to this,the unit cost of the CAESAR is € 2.5M



Thank you, not cheap, almost $3 million at current rate.
How recent is that list?


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## Gabriel92

Carlosa said:


> Thank you, not cheap, almost $3 million at current rate.
> How recent is that list?



If i'm not wrong,the PZH2000 costs $4-5M.
So,for the price of 1 PZH2000,you can almost get 2 CAESAR. 
(We should wait confirmation of the deal though.)

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## Carlosa

Gabriel92 said:


> If i'm not wrong,the PZH2000 costs $4-5M.
> So,for the price of 1 PZH2000,you can almost get 2 CAESAR.



No, no, that's apples and oranges, the PZH2000 is supposed to be much more expensive, its a different type, totally self contained and much more mobile. Truck mounted can't compared to tracked vehicle.

I'm not sure about some of the prices in that list, they seemed way low, examples:
Mica at 600,000 euros, but I understand its about $3 million.
Exocet at 850,000 euros, but I understand its about $4-5 million (block 3).
Rafale at 65 million euros, but I understand its over $100 million.
Aster 30 at 1.4 million euros, but I understand its about 3 million.



Viet said:


> ok. in any case, the caesar will be the most powerful howitzer than anything we currently have in inventory.
> View attachment 205821



The Caesar at $3 million a piece makes me wonder why VN didn't developed a truck mounted version of the 152 mm gun that it currently produces (kind of like they did with the 105 mm gun). The specs probably would not be quite as good, but it would be a lot cheaper and another issue is that Caesar is 155 mm caliber which is not currently used in VN, but if they do the self production, it would be 152 mm.

@Yorozuya makes sense?

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## luoyue

Who knows, the euro could be below $1 in a few months' time. There is good chance for import weapon from NATO.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No, no, that's apples and oranges, the PZH2000 is supposed to be much more expensive, its a different type, totally self contained and much more mobile. Truck mounted can't compared to tracked vehicle.
> 
> I'm not sure about some of the prices in that list, they seemed way low, examples:
> Mica at 600,000 euros, but I understand its about $3 million.
> Exocet at 850,000 euros, but I understand its about $4-5 million (block 3).
> Rafale at 65 million euros, but I understand its over $100 million.
> Aster 30 at 1.4 million euros, but I understand its about 3 million.
> 
> 
> 
> The Caesar at $3 million a piece makes me wonder *why VN didn't developed a truck mounted version of the 152 mm gun* that it currently produces (kind of like they did with the 105 mm gun). The specs probably would not be quite as good, but it would be a lot cheaper and another issue is that Caesar is 155 mm caliber which is not currently used in VN, but if they do the self production, it would be 152 mm.
> 
> @Yorozuya makes sense?


theoretically we can self produce howitzers. but what we lack of is the famous ecosystem: accurate guidance system for the cannons, supported by GPS and drones.

vietnam media reports the news. seems the purchase is confirmed: 18 ceasar guns.
Việt Nam đặt mua siêu pháo Caesar 155mm của Pháp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> No, no, that's apples and oranges, the PZH2000 is supposed to be much more expensive, its a different type, totally self contained and much more mobile. Truck mounted can't compared to tracked vehicle.
> 
> I'm not sure about some of the prices in that list, they seemed way low, examples:
> Mica at 600,000 euros, but I understand its about $3 million.
> Exocet at 850,000 euros, but I understand its about $4-5 million (block 3).
> Rafale at 65 million euros, but I understand its over $100 million.
> Aster 30 at 1.4 million euros, but I understand its about 3 million.



Maybe that expensive price for Viet Nam includes some special "package" for the MoD. Maybe we can ask the Indonesian bro and sis if they know how much they paid for their Exocet+MICA+Smart-S. @Indos @madokafc, etc?




Carlosa said:


> The Caesar at $3 million a piece makes me wonder why VN didn't developed a truck mounted version of the 152 mm gun that it currently produces (kind of like they did with the 105 mm gun). The specs probably would not be quite as good, but it would be a lot cheaper and another issue is that Caesar is 155 mm caliber which is not currently used in VN, but if they do the self production, it would be 152 mm.
> 
> @Yorozuya makes sense?



It doesn't make sense to me to buy artillery systems that cost $3 million per unit. If Viet Nam is rich, then by all means. But Viet Nam is dirt poor and needs to spend money on other important things like setting up a proper C4ISR system. I mean, Viet Nam is already developing their own artillery system like you mentioned so why spend its limited budget on other costly artillery? Plus it looks like the PLA has no intention to send their ground force across the border anyway.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> theoretically we can self produce howitzers. but what we lack of is the famous ecosystem: accurate guidance system for the cannons, supported by GPS and drones.



I don't think so since Vietnam manufactures drones and GPS equipment is easy to produce.
Maybe someone is getting a red envelope from the Caesar.



Yorozuya said:


> Maybe that expensive price for Viet Nam includes some special "package" for the MoD. Maybe we can ask the Indonesian bro and sis if they know how much they paid for their Exocet+MICA+Smart-S. @Indos @madokafc, etc?
> .



I already asked Madokafc and she said about $3.8 million including tech transfer.



Yorozuya said:


> It doesn't make sense to me to buy artillery systems that cost $3 million per unit. If Viet Nam is rich, then by all means. But Viet Nam is dirt poor and needs to spend money on other important things like setting up a proper C4ISR system. I mean, Viet Nam is already developing their own artillery system like you mentioned so why spend its limited budget on other costly artillery? Plus it looks like the PLA has no intention to send their ground force across the border anyway.



Exactly, that's my whole point, a land war is unlikely, I would use that money to buy 6 SU-30MKV.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I don't think so since Vietnam manufactures drones and GPS equipment is easy to produce.
> Maybe someone is getting a red envelope from the Caesar.
> 
> 
> I already asked Madokafc and she said about $3 million including tech transfer.


the ceasar gun that vietnam purchases not only can target troop concentrations, but heavy armored enemy tanks. as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.

Việt Nam mua lượng lớn pháo tự hành diệt cả xe tăng

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the ceasar gun that vietnam purchases not only can target troop concentrations, but heavy armored enemy tanks. as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.
> 
> Việt Nam mua lượng lớn pháo tự hành diệt cả xe tăng
> View attachment 206223



Any 152 - 155 mm shell that falls on top of a tank will kill it, there was plenty of that in Ukraine. If the shells use terminal guidance, that's a different story, but I have not seen that about Caesar and still, just the munitions even if they are smart munitions are not enough reason to buy a system, that can be independently developed or purchased.

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Maybe that expensive price for Viet Nam includes some special "package" for the MoD. Maybe we can ask the Indonesian bro and sis if they know how much they paid for their Exocet+MICA+Smart-S. @Indos @madokafc, etc?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't make sense to me to buy artillery systems that cost $3 million per unit. If Viet Nam is rich, then by all means. But Viet Nam is dirt poor and needs to spend money on other important things like setting up a proper C4ISR system. I mean, Viet Nam is already developing their own artillery system like you mentioned so why spend its limited budget on other costly artillery? Plus it looks like the PLA has no intention to send their ground force across the border anyway.


difficult to say why we buy such modern french howitzer. maybe the people of the ground force say it is time now that we get something. the guys and boys of the navy and airforce usually get everything they want.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I don't think so since Vietnam manufactures drones and GPS equipment is easy to produce.
> Maybe someone is getting a red envelope from the Caesar.



But I think Viet Nam needs to spend more money to develop more sophisticated drones and more importantly, integrate them into a C4ISR system, which Viet Nam currently doesn't have.



Carlosa said:


> Exactly, that's my whole point, a land war is unlikely, I would use that money to buy 6 SU-30MKV.



Yea, their artillery force is already decent enough given the relatively low risk of a land war compared to a naval skirmish, etc.



Viet said:


> vietnam media reports the news. seems the purchase is confirmed: 18 ceasar guns.
> Việt Nam đặt mua siêu pháo Caesar 155mm của Pháp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt



That's nothing new, they are just quoting the same source that was first posted by Gabriel. There are Viet journalists that lurks around here.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.]



I feel very reassured now to learn that red envelops are no longer possible since they are supervised by the communist party chief office since they have such a great reputation fighting corruption.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> the ceasar gun that vietnam purchases not only can target troop concentrations, but heavy armored enemy tanks. as for red evelope, the ministry for arms acquisition is now under supervision of the communist party chief office. so it is no longer easy as it used to be.
> 
> Việt Nam mua lượng lớn pháo tự hành diệt cả xe tăng
> View attachment 206223





Viet said:


> difficult to say why we buy such modern french howitzer. maybe the people of the ground force say it is time now that we get something. the guys and boys of the navy and airforce usually get everything they want.



Remember I once told you that it is very unlikely that the PLA would send their ground force across the border and I think the news about the road construction cancellation has just confirmed that the PLA has no intention to do so in the near future. So it's better to spend VN's limited budget on something else more important. 



Carlosa said:


> I feel very reassured now to learn that red envelops are no longer possible since they are supervised by the communist party chief office since they have such a great reputation fighting corruption.



That's not good enough. You need more assurance by inviting comrade Bo Xilai to oversee this supervision and advice on the anti-corruption fight.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> But I think Viet Nam needs to spend more money to develop more sophisticated drones and more importantly, integrate them into a C4ISR system, which Viet Nam currently doesn't have.



Viettel seems to have a pretty decent drone and frankly, it would be no problem for Viettel to integrate it into a C4ISR system, after all, Viettel did the Air force air defense - monitoring network with excellent results and they are working on the C4ISR system. I think the problem is more like for the higher ups at the MOD to make a decision about making things in VN, I feel they don't have enough confidence about VN even that the Viettel success with the air defense network proves otherwise.

Lets not forget that typical way of thinking in Vietnam is that things made in Vietnam are of bad quality and is always better to import, so until that thinking changes, I think we are not going to see many things made in Vietnam.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I feel very reassured now to learn that red envelops are no longer possible since they are supervised by the communist party chief office since they have such a great reputation fighting corruption.


I sense you don´t place much trust on the system

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I sense you don´t place much trust on the system



I live in Vietnam, I see the results of the system everyday and when it comes to fighting corruption, the results are very well known to everybody here.

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## Gabriel92

It takes only 60 seconds to deploy the system,,40 seconds after having stopped, Caesar is ready to move on, thus avoiding counter-battery fire.

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## Carlosa

Gabriel92 said:


> It takes only 60 seconds to deploy the system,,40 seconds after having stopped, Caesar is ready to move on, thus avoiding counter-battery fire.



Definitely a nice system, nice video, thank you.

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## Viet

Gabriel92 said:


> It takes only 60 seconds to deploy the system,,40 seconds after having stopped, Caesar is ready to move on, thus avoiding counter-battery fire.


nice, though I miss automatic loading.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> nice, though I miss automatic loading.



That will cost you an extra 2 million.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That will cost you an extra 2 million.


if so, then we continue to load the guns by hand

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## Viet

he he he ...pretty much expected:
the Russian Ambassador to Vietnam Vnukov Konstantin Vasilievich visits Vietnam communist chief. I bet he will talk on the US demand of stopping refuelling russian strategic bombers.


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## Viet

Hanoi police force, supported by the army is responsible for the security of the upcoming 132nd Inter-Parliamentary Union Assembly (IPU-132).

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## Aqsuperman

Korean , Russian and Israel vehicles in 1 event


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## MacanJawa

guys did vietnam planning buy modern MBT? ex .T 90 or western equivalent


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> guys did vietnam planning buy modern MBT? ex .T 90 or western equivalent


it is already posted here and there:

we increase our tank armies by t-72 and t-90 modern tanks, from the current some 3,200 to 4,000 tanks in total. the first batch of $1b contract for 186 t-72 (b3 series) and 93 t-90 (ms series) is expected to be delivered this year.


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## Viet

more pics of the hanoi police for the IPU-132

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## Viet



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## Viet

General Thanh visits the stand of Irkut on LIMA 2015 fair, where a model of a Gepard is displayed.





Receiving a delegation of the indian navy





SIPRI: Sigma 9814 Việt Nam





*the 2 Sigmar will be equipped by*

25 x MM40 Exocet Block 3
*Tên lửa đối hạm MM40 Exocet Block 3: 100 triệu USD*






2 x VL MICA systems
*Tên lửa phòng không VL MICA-M: 48 triệu USD*






6 x torpedo MU90
*Ngư lôi chống ngầm hạng nhẹ MU90 Impact*

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## liubang

I wrote a lengthy piece on South China Sea based upon my understanding thus far. I wrote from the perspective of China, Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, USA, Taiwan, Malaysia, India, and Indonesia. 

Can someone double checked to see my Vietnam section is not factually incorrect. 

Urghh can't post link.... So I can't show other section. But copy a segment and google it. It probably show up. 


Why did Vietnam have its own section? Because that one Chinese press single out Vietnam as the only country that China need to teach a lesson to warn others among ASEAN. In the past 100 years, Vietnam involved in 5 major wars and somehow ended up on the not losing side. Starting with WW1 where there are some 100,000 vietnamese fought in Europe. To WW2 fighting against the Japanese and helping American down planes. Ho Chi Minh’s force Vietminh (who later became branch out to be Vietcong) were supplied by the Americans. They fought against the French in 1st Indochina war, the Americans in 2nd Indochina war, and the Chinese/Cambodia in the 3rd Indochina war. These wars and colonialization had leaved Vietnam a shamble mess with millions upon millions of death, devastation to biodiversity, and reduced infrastructure to rubbles. Combined with sanction from China and America after the war, it is only recently that the country resurrect itself into a regional player. A possible war with China will set back much progress.

Funny enough, Americans were involved with Vietnam in 4 of those 5 wars (all 5 wars but there is no contact in WW1). With the last war was partly result in the diplomatic relationship with China. There are history that isn’t widely discuss in the west such as American funding of Pol Pot (one of the worst modern mass murder) even in exile in Thailand (another country who had historic tie with the USA). America pay for the French war because of China, they went into Vietnam because of China, they leaved Vietnam because of China. And now they pivot back to Asia because of China. The USA had recently lift arm ban to Vietnam. And there are further talk of lifting all bans plus possible military relationship with Vietnam. But for that to happen, America will make demands. One of which just about a week ago, America tell Vietnam to stop letting Russia refueling their airplane in Cam Ranh Bay. I won’t get into Vietnam war, because the amount of hypocrisy and misinformation in that war made my blood boil. Vietnam would then had to choose between its historical allies with a new one. Russia, of course, had a hand on building Vietnam’s modern navy fleet and renew Cam Ranh Bay.

Ho Chi Minh famously said, "The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life." And that is the attitude of Vietnam toward French, American, and Chinese. Indeed, there is little enmity toward either the France or the USA. But Vietnam and China has one of the longest rivalry in history (one writer actually go as far as dubbed as the longest war in history but I don’t really think it is a continuous war). China and Vietnam did build a relationship during the first 2 indochina wars. Despite some promises from the top officials, the naval Chinese invasion against South Vietnam and wrestle those islands from South Vietnam, enraged the North Vietnam and turn their relationship sour since. It doesn’t matter it is North or South Vietnamese. Against what they perceived as a foreign enemies, they had the same view. Four years after the American left, in 1979, Vietnam fought a brief war with China. In less than 4 weeks, the Chinese lost almost as many troops as the Americans lost in 20 years in Vietnam. Both sides claimed victory. Since then there are plenty of skirmishes at sea including in 1988.

The relationship between both countries had been much warmer in the 90s. Vietnam was gather stay neutral in South China Sea. At the same time, it bought 6 kilo submarines from Russia forming what would be the strongest submarines fleet in South East Asia (until the other countries caught up with their military spending/which is pretty soon), and many other advance battle ships from Europe also. This trend is also seen in Malaysia and Indonesia. On one hand, they don’t want to offend their business partner, China. On the other hand, they increase military spending at an alarming rate. Of the 4 claimants that aren’t Taiwan or China, Brunei is too small to do anything. Philippines and Vietnam are the closest to China. While Malaysia enjoyed its much much longer distance away from China. Vietnam would soon feel the risk of being too geography close to China by full in 2014 when the Chinese put a gigantic oil rig in the dispute area. Like many time before it, a massive ramming of ships. On one hand, we have the Chinese military. On the other hand, we have Vietnamese fishermen. We know how the story will ended up. China had enforced some laws that restricted all foreign fishermen to fish in the 90% area claimed by China. Like with the Air defense zone, this seriously infringe on the freedom to navigate.

With the oil rig incident, it triggered a giant transformation in Vietnam. Anti Chinese protest across Vietnam and Vietnamese community across the world. The government of Vietnam tend to crack down in public protest, allow it happened (show a sign of supporting the sentiments). Some set themselves on fire in protest. The protests turned violent in my hometown, Binh Duong, resulted in deaths, injuries, and burn down of business (that including the Taiwanese). I strongly condemn these attacks. But I could understand the reason why they targeted the Taiwanese. Since Taiwan had the exact same 90% claimed like China and has its fair share of boat ramming and arrested fishermen with Vietnam. Foreign factories also treat native workers like shit and the work condition tend to be awful. But still, the protests would have been much more effective peacefully.

Since the oil rig, Prime Minister Dung had stepped up diplomacy. Among which are the Philippines, Japan, and India. Vietnam is the major focus on India’s look east policy. In fact, Vietnam invited India to explore for oil in Vietnam shore to balance out China. While India looking for an opportunity to poke China in the eyes for its own border dispute. In many way, India is the only Asian friend that Vietnam have. India from the start had opposed the French, the American, and the Chinese for all 3 Indochina wars. This time around, India offered 100 million dollars of credit for the Vietnamese to buy arms from India. The biggest prize that Vietnam want is the BrahMos missiles that developed by India and Russia. Vietnam would need approval from both countries and it seemed like it will likely get it in the near future. This is what I meant by Russia undermining China by selling Vietnam weapons.

Prime Minster Dung like Abe and Modi (who build up ties with all South Asian neighbors and now branching out South East Asian neighbors) are stepping up on diplomacy big time. Not just with the Philippines, India, Japan, and USA but the rest of ASEAN developing strategic partnerships (Thailand, Singapore, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Cambodia). The latest news came from Australia and New Zealand, it seemed like Australia will trained some of the Vietnamese navy.

Vietnam knew its own position. That if a war to break out, no one will come to its aid. Building up diplomacy and military is the only deterrence to war while maintain its own interest.

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## Indos

liubang said:


> I wrote a lengthy piece on South China Sea based upon my understanding thus far. I wrote from the perspective of China, Japan, Vietnam, Philippines, USA, Taiwan, Malaysia, India, and Indonesia.
> 
> Can someone double checked to see my Vietnam section is not factually incorrect.
> 
> Urghh can't post link.... So I can't show other section. But copy a segment and google it. It probably show up.
> 
> 
> Why did Vietnam have its own section? Because that one Chinese press single out Vietnam as the only country that China need to teach a lesson to warn others among ASEAN. In the past 100 years, Vietnam involved in 5 major wars and somehow ended up on the not losing side. Starting with WW1 where there are some 100,000 vietnamese fought in Europe. To WW2 fighting against the Japanese and helping American down planes. Ho Chi Minh’s force Vietminh (who later became branch out to be Vietcong) were supplied by the Americans. They fought against the French in 1st Indochina war, the Americans in 2nd Indochina war, and the Chinese/Cambodia in the 3rd Indochina war. These wars and colonialization had leaved Vietnam a shamble mess with millions upon millions of death, devastation to biodiversity, and reduced infrastructure to rubbles. Combined with sanction from China and America after the war, it is only recently that the country resurrect itself into a regional player. A possible war with China will set back much progress.
> 
> Funny enough, Americans were involved with Vietnam in 4 of those 5 wars (all 5 wars but there is no contact in WW1). With the last war was partly result in the diplomatic relationship with China. There are history that isn’t widely discuss in the west such as American funding of Pol Pot (one of the worst modern mass murder) even in exile in Thailand (another country who had historic tie with the USA). America pay for the French war because of China, they went into Vietnam because of China, they leaved Vietnam because of China. And now they pivot back to Asia because of China. The USA had recently lift arm ban to Vietnam. And there are further talk of lifting all bans plus possible military relationship with Vietnam. But for that to happen, America will make demands. One of which just about a week ago, America tell Vietnam to stop letting Russia refueling their airplane in Cam Ranh Bay. I won’t get into Vietnam war, because the amount of hypocrisy and misinformation in that war made my blood boil. Vietnam would then had to choose between its historical allies with a new one. Russia, of course, had a hand on building Vietnam’s modern navy fleet and renew Cam Ranh Bay.
> 
> Ho Chi Minh famously said, "The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life." And that is the attitude of Vietnam toward French, American, and Chinese. Indeed, there is little enmity toward either the France or the USA. But Vietnam and China has one of the longest rivalry in history (one writer actually go as far as dubbed as the longest war in history but I don’t really think it is a continuous war). China and Vietnam did build a relationship during the first 2 indochina wars. Despite some promises from the top officials, the naval Chinese invasion against South Vietnam and wrestle those islands from South Vietnam, enraged the North Vietnam and turn their relationship sour since. It doesn’t matter it is North or South Vietnamese. Against what they perceived as a foreign enemies, they had the same view. Four years after the American left, in 1979, Vietnam fought a brief war with China. In less than 4 weeks, the Chinese lost almost as many troops as the Americans lost in 20 years in Vietnam. Both sides claimed victory. Since then there are plenty of skirmishes at sea including in 1988.
> 
> The relationship between both countries had been much warmer in the 90s. Vietnam was gather stay neutral in South China Sea. At the same time, it bought 6 kilo submarines from Russia forming what would be the strongest submarines fleet in South East Asia (until the other countries caught up with their military spending/which is pretty soon), and many other advance battle ships from Europe also. This trend is also seen in Malaysia and Indonesia. On one hand, they don’t want to offend their business partner, China. On the other hand, they increase military spending at an alarming rate. Of the 4 claimants that aren’t Taiwan or China, Brunei is too small to do anything. Philippines and Vietnam are the closest to China. While Malaysia enjoyed its much much longer distance away from China. Vietnam would soon feel the risk of being too geography close to China by full in 2014 when the Chinese put a gigantic oil rig in the dispute area. Like many time before it, a massive ramming of ships. On one hand, we have the Chinese military. On the other hand, we have Vietnamese fishermen. We know how the story will ended up. China had enforced some laws that restricted all foreign fishermen to fish in the 90% area claimed by China. Like with the Air defense zone, this seriously infringe on the freedom to navigate.
> 
> With the oil rig incident, it triggered a giant transformation in Vietnam. Anti Chinese protest across Vietnam and Vietnamese community across the world. The government of Vietnam tend to crack down in public protest, allow it happened (show a sign of supporting the sentiments). Some set themselves on fire in protest. The protests turned violent in my hometown, Binh Duong, resulted in deaths, injuries, and burn down of business (that including the Taiwanese). I strongly condemn these attacks. But I could understand the reason why they targeted the Taiwanese. Since Taiwan had the exact same 90% claimed like China and has its fair share of boat ramming and arrested fishermen with Vietnam. Foreign factories also treat native workers like shit and the work condition tend to be awful. But still, the protests would have been much more effective peacefully.
> 
> Since the oil rig, Prime Minister Dung had stepped up diplomacy. Among which are the Philippines, Japan, and India. Vietnam is the major focus on India’s look east policy. In fact, Vietnam invited India to explore for oil in Vietnam shore to balance out China. While India looking for an opportunity to poke China in the eyes for its own border dispute. In many way, India is the only Asian friend that Vietnam have. India from the start had opposed the French, the American, and the Chinese for all 3 Indochina wars. This time around, India offered 100 million dollars of credit for the Vietnamese to buy arms from India. The biggest prize that Vietnam want is the BrahMos missiles that developed by India and Russia. Vietnam would need approval from both countries and it seemed like it will likely get it in the near future. This is what I meant by Russia undermining China by selling Vietnam weapons.
> 
> Prime Minster Dung like Abe and Modi (who build up ties with all South Asian neighbors and now branching out South East Asian neighbors) are stepping up on diplomacy big time. Not just with the Philippines, India, Japan, and USA but the rest of ASEAN developing strategic partnerships (Thailand, Singapore, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Cambodia). The latest news came from Australia and New Zealand, it seemed like Australia will trained some of the Vietnamese navy.
> 
> Vietnam knew its own position. That if a war to break out, no one will come to its aid. Building up diplomacy and military is the only deterrence to war while maintain its own interest.



Very good article here, did you make all of that, what is the title mate....? Where did you post this writing before....?


----------



## Viet

Việt Nam SU-30






Với trang thiết bị khí tài mới, việc đào tào đội ngũ phi công có thể làm chủ được với khí tài, thiết bị mới là nhiệm vụ hàng đầu của Không quân Việt Nam hiện tại




Phi công Việt Nam đang học lý thuyết sau giờ thực hành vất vả





Theo lời của của Phó giám đốc công ty xuất khẩu vũ khí quốc gia Nga ông Alexander Mikheyev thì những chiếc Su-30MK2 mà Nga bán cho Việt Nam có nhiều sự đổi mới.




Su-30MK2V hiện đại của Không quân Việt Nam trong một buổi tập luyện thường kỳ




Hình ảnh các loại vũ khí được trang bị trên những chiếc Su-30MK2V mới




Máy bay Su-30MK2V Việt Nam có khả năng tác chiến mạnh, tấn công phá hủy cả các mục tiêu trên mặt đất và trên biển bằng các loại vũ khí chính xác cao, gồm tên lửa có điều khiển và bom dẫn đường trên không.




Su-30MK2V được trang bị với hệ thống thiết bị điện tử hàng không Avionic hiện đại, hệ thống truyền thông và hệ thống định vị mới, các thiết bị điều khiển để hỗ trợ cho phi hành đoàn. Thiết bị ECM mới cung cấp cho máy bay khả năng tự động nhắm mục tiêu và sử dụng tên lửa chống radar Kh-31P để tấn công.


----------



## Viet

Visiting to the PLA airforce and training centre





Trong khuôn khổ chuyến thăm và giao lưu với sĩ quan trẻ Quân giải phóng nhân dân Trung Quốc diễn ra từ ngày 17 đến 24/3, Đoàn sĩ quan trẻ Quân đội Nhân dân Việt Nam đã có chuyến thăm tới Sư đoàn Không quân 28 bảo vệ thủ đô Bắc Kinh. Trong ảnh, đoàn sĩ quan trẻ Việt Nam thăm quan các máy bay chiến đấu chủ lực của Sư đoàn 28. Ảnh: báo Quân đội Nhân dân




Đại tá Phương Vận Bình, Phó Sư đoàn trưởng Sư đoàn Không quân 28 thay mặt Sư đoàn tặng quà lưu niệm cho Đoàn sĩ quan trẻ Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam. Ảnh: báo Quân đội Nhân dân




Sư đoàn Không quân 28 được thành lập từ năm 1952 tại huyện Tây Bình, tỉnh Hà Nam. Năm 1969 chính thức đóng quân tại Hàng Châu, nhiệm vụ chính là bảo vệ Thủ đô Bắc Kinh và thi hành tác chiến cơ động. Trong ảnh, sĩ quan Việt Nam thăm quan, tìm hiểu buồng lái máy bay cường kích JH-7.



Kết thúc buổi làm việc, lãnh đạo Sư đoàn 6 Tăng thiết giáp hướng dẫn đoàn sĩ quan trẻ Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam tham quan một loạt các mô hình huấn luyện, thực hành của cán bộ, chiến sĩ, thăm nơi sinh hoạt của sĩ quan.




Trong bầu không khí thân tình và ấm áp của buổi tọa đàm, trưởng đoàn hai bên lần lượt giới thiệu những nét chính trong xây dựng và phát triển đơn vị; hoạt động của cán bộ, chiến sĩ nói chung và sĩ quan trẻ nói riêng; chia sẻ kinh nghiệm trong công tác quản lý; ôn lại kỷ niệm khó quên trong những lần giao lưu trước…




Hai bên bày tỏ mong muốn tăng cường hơn nữa các hoạt động giao lưu, chia sẻ kinh nghiệm, tạo đà cho sự phát triển quan hệ giữa Việt Nam và Trung Quốc trong tương lai. Trong ảnh: Thực hành trên hệ thống mô phỏng lái xe tăng.




Tại buổi hội đàm, Thiếu tướng Hồ Xương Minh nhấn mạnh, sĩ quan trẻ Việt Nam – Trung Quốc có nhiều điểm tương đồng, được thể hiện ở sự sôi nổi, nhiệt tình, có hoài bão, lý tưởng; có tố chất tốt; là tương lai của quốc gia, quân đội.




Quân đội hai nước có sứ mệnh giáo dục sĩ quan trẻ thêm yêu nước, yêu Đảng; kế thừa và phát huy mối quan hệ đoàn kết, hữu nghị mà Chủ tịch Hồ Chí Minh và Chủ tịch Mao Trạch Đông cùng các vị tiền bối đã dày công vun đắp.






Trung tá Bế Hải Triều thay mặt đoàn sĩ quan trẻ Việt Nam tặng quà lưu niệm cho Văn phòng ngoại sự, Bộ Quốc phòng Trung Quốc.


----------



## Viet

*Aust, Vietnam defence training planned*
*By*Australian Associated Press
Published: 00:52 GMT, 18 March 2015 | Updated: 00:52 GMT, 18 March 2015






Vietnamese military forces will train alongside Australian defence personnel.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott met with Vietnam's leader, Nguyen Tan Dung, in Canberra on Wednesday.

Mr Abbott said Australia and Vietnam had a strong shared interest in peace and stability in the region.

*"It is good to see that 120 Vietnamese military personnel will be receiving some training here in Australia and ... Vietnamese military personnel will be involved in joint exercises here in Australia,"* he said during a joint press conference.

Prime Minister Dung said he and Mr Abbott had discussed greater cooperation between the two nations' special forces.

They had also agreed on the need for maritime security and freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

"(We must) exercise self restraint and refrain from actions that may escalate the tension in the region, including the use of force to unilaterally change the status quo," Mr Dung said.


Read more: Aust, Vietnam defence training planned | Daily Mail Online



*NZ and Vietnam to strengthen defence ties*
Brent Edwards, Political Editor - brent.edwards@radionz.co.nz
Updated at 5:24 am on 20 March 2015

*Forty years after being enemies New Zealand and Vietnam have agreed to develop even closer defence ties.*




Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and his wife, being greeted by Prime Minister John Key.
Photo: RNZ / Diego Opatowski

At a meeting of the two countries' Prime Ministers in Auckland they have decided to do more together, with the Vietnamese particularly wanting New Zealand's help training its officers for United Nations peacekeeping operations.

This year the two countries celebrate 40 years of diplomatic ties, forged once the Vietnam War ended.

Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung flew into Auckland yesterday after a three-day visit to Australia.

Though Mr Dung and the Prime Minister, John Key, talked trade, defence was also raised during their official meeting.

Mr Key said there would be closer defence ties between the two countries.

*"It's most likely going to be in the area of training where we can undertake training together.*

*"There are occasions where it makes sense to do so, and of course having our military on occasions undertaking those trainings... are very beneficial when we ultimately maybe go into the support or help of a country that has some sort of natural disaster, for instance, because our militaries understand one another."*

Speaking though a translator, Mr Dung said Vietnam agreed last year to start taking part in United Nations peacekeeping missions.

"That is why we like experience and expertise in this area of co-operation. That is why in the spirit of comprehensive partnership with New Zealand I respectfully asked New Zealand to help Vietnam to train the military officers of the Vietnam army in order to help them to engage in the peacekeeping missions of the United Nations," Mr Dung said.
The two leaders also spoke about Vietnam's territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.

Mr Dung said he and Mr Key agreed on the need for peace and stability in the region and that international law should be observed.

Mr Key said he repeated New Zealand's view of the matter.

"New Zealand's long-standing position has been that it encourages the partners to find a negotiated and peaceful way forward to resolving the disputes and issues in the South China Sea. And certainly the Prime Minister gave a strong view that that is the preferred option of Vietnam."

Mr Dung was due to fly out of Auckland on Friday afternoon.


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## Viet

*UK trains English for Vietnam’s defence officers*
21:55 | 23/03/2015

_

(CPV) -_
* Thirty-five officers of the Vietnam People’s Army on March 23rd enjoyed the 2015 English language training program funded by the UK Ministry of Defence and provided by the British Council.*


As part of a program in its fourth year, the Vietnamese officers will undertake between 6 and 9 months of training according to their entry standard of English. At the end of their training, they will have the language skills they need to undertake specialist professional military training courses provided by the UK Ministry of Defence, with those whose fluency is most developed being eligible for some of the UK’s most advanced military Command training courses for future General Officers, run at the UK’s Defence Academy in Shrivenham, UK.

Other officers are expected to be employed in future Vietnamese contingents deployed on Peacekeeping Operations, or to be prepared for future senior appointments in the Vietnamese People’s Army.

Since 2012, as many as 105 Vietnamese officers have completed the same language training.

Confirmed at the annual bilateral defence working group in Hanoi in January, and highlighting the importance of training in defence cooperation between the two sides, this year’s program seeks to significantly expand this initiative, with up to 72 officers to be trained in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh city through. It is one of several strands of defence engagement which the two nations agreed to advance during 2015, which include increased training cooperation, defence industrial cooperation, and maritime cooperation.

Defence cooperation also formed a part of the fourth Vietnam-UK strategic dialogue co-chaired by Deputy Foreign Minister Bui Thanh Son and UK Minister of State for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office Hugo Swire this February.

This program is also a mark of the commitment of the UK to supporting Vietnam’s military modernisation./.


----------



## liubang

Indos said:


> Very good article here, did you make all of that, what is the title mate....? Where did you post this writing before....?



I posted on a manga forum. Of course, no one really reply because it is a manga forum.

Most of my info are from yahoo headlines and from the diplomats and or any google search for that matter. There are also some the economic youtube video and documentaries on youtube. China/Japan/Vietnam, I know some of the history. Funny enough, I don't know the detail of the Vietnam war, itself. I just like to study up on the politics of pre Vietnam war, during vietnam war, and after Vietnam war. Likewise, I don't know jack about this airplane or that airplane this tank or that tank. Or what submarines are better. I only follow the foreign policies.

I guess I can paste my piece here. 

TOO LONG DON"T READ

In term of geopolitics, East/South China Sea is probably the second most interesting thing right now after the Middle East (but in my book, it is the first). I don't want to approach this topic as a nationalist. Because then I will be too bias and contained within what I want best for the Vietnamese people. But the ongoing political conflict involved East/South China Sea had been about the rise of China. The place of interest is the area of East China Sea with involvement of Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. In South China Sea involved Vietnam, Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, and Taiwan. 

India has a bone to pick with China over its own border dispute, Tibet, backing of Pakistan, and China's involvement in South Asia and Indian Ocean. Indonesia as kinda a leader of the ASEAN is becoming more assertive especially since China claimed also cross over part of Indonesia's territory (Natuna islands). The United States is involved via Japan, Taiwan, Korea, and Philippines (to some extend Thailand). Russia is pushing closer and closer to China after the falling out with the west over Ukraine but it does undermine china here and there (beside it also has strong tie with India and Vietnam). Australia too is wary of the rise in China. What at stake is one of the most important trade route in Asia and huge amount of oil reserved. 

The below video is show in graphic about territorial dispute of China with other neighbors. In reaction to the rise of China, (india) Modi's strengthen look East policy, Obama has a pivot to Asia, both Russia Putin and Japan Abe have pivot of their own. While all countries involved are having an arm race similar to Europe prior to WW1. ASEAN are also resolving their internal border disputes to focus on China. I will examine this matter from China, Japan, Vietnam, USA and allies (Taiwan/Japan/Korea/Philippines), other ASEAN countries that has too close of an economical ties with China (Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, etc). I won't go into the historical-ness of these particular islands because I am not an expert. I will take a neutral tone because I actually like all parties involved. And hopefully you will find real life is more interesting than Kingdom, or Game of Thrones, or whatever. Didn’t realize it was this long as I writing about it. But people seriously need to be informed. Because, Americans, especially, like a deer on the headlight with Iraq, Libya, and Syria. I don’t want wars, especially as an Americans. But with conservatives control both houses and possibly the presidency in 2016, things may changed quickly.











*Part 1: China*


Spoiler



Let go back in history a bit. During the colonialism age, the west are pretty arrogant. Within Asia, there was no one to contest. Which come to a huge surprise when Japan defeated Russia in 1905. During this time, China suffered to what it called as the century of humiliation (1839-1949). The Qing dynasty of China was not always weak. Under the leadership of Kangxi, he was westernize China for quite a bit and even wrestle a chunk of land from Russia. But since then, his successors are more conservative and thought that China's culture is the best. Even at the rest of Asia fell into the European power. China was just too big to take control. The Europeans does try to carve China out among itself. Like in the Boxer Rebellion, 8 nations (Italy, UK, USA, France, Germany, Russia, Austria-Hungary, and Japan) defeated the Chinese forces. There are places within China that have signs like "no dogs and Chinese allowed."

In WW2, Japan launched an invasion into Korea and China. And China suffered another humiliation at the rape of Nanking. Japan had planned an invasion of China before but it never progress even past Korea. If you want to know about that one then read this Badass of the Week: Yi Soon Shin (Yi Sun-Sin). So since then, Korea and Japan, China and Japan are not necessary buddy-buddy. After normalize its relationship with USA during the Vietnam War, China had an economical transformation launching itself past Japan in 2011 as the world's second largest economy. China's military is also the third strongest around the world and continue to develop. China also extend it diplomatic power into Africa and even South America (the backyard of the USA). So with its new found military, economical, and diplomatic power. China is pushing its weight for its own interest in South and East China Sea.

Currently it claimed 90% of South China Sea in the shaped of a cow's tongue. Like in the border war with India (1962 and 1967), China pushing out its real border slowly in what people said is a salami slicing tactics. The territories that it took is real but not enough for its neighbor to delve into a full blown war. An example of this are China fought Vietnam 3 times in modern history. 2 times are on the ocean, China took full control of the Paracel Islands in 1974, and Johnson South Reef in 1988. Same thing happened to former Philippines' territories. China prefer bilateral diplomat instead of collective bargaining. With any of the weaker countries, China has much more upper hand in term of diplomatic power one on one. With American weaken by the last economic crisis and botched down by 2 wars in the middle east plus conflicts like Yemen, Syria, and Libya, the Chinese look very positively at China's rise and think that other smaller countries are ganging up on China like what Europe did before in the Boxer rebellions. One chinese news outlet are so optimistic that it think there will be 6 wars the Chinese will fought in the next 50 years.

Six Wars China Is Sure to Fight In the Next 50 Years » Indian Defence Review

Although, it is mostly wishful thinking but there are some basis to the claims. The first will be unification of Taiwan. Some chinese and Taiwanese do think that China has the capacity of taking over by 2020. Then South China Sea, which it will teach Vietnam a lesson for the rest of ASEAN to see. The third, it will face off against India to retaken "southern Tibet." Fourth, is to face off against Japan in East China Sea. 5th, retaken Mongolia. And 6th, take back former territories from Russia.



*Part 2: Japan*


Spoiler



Unlike Vietnam, Philippines, or even India, Japan had been a gigantic economical and military powerhouse. Even though after WW2 the Japanese constitution doesn't allow for a standing army, Japan housed many of the American naval bases. Japan, on its own, is still have one of the strongest army/airforce/and naval force on earth. Hence, China haven't really pushing Japan around. But that change in recent years, since 2010 the conflict in East Asia Sea began to took shape starting with a boat collision in dispute area. It then escalated to Japan buying off the Senkaku islands from its citizens and nationalized the islands. These islands are known as Diaoyu Islands in China, who also claimed ownership. In 2012, there were anti Japan protests to chinese higher up talking about a possible military combat to sending drones to these islands. Japan, of course, threaten to shoot them down. IN which China replied that it will be an act of war if that happened. If anyone remembered around this time, even in the anime community and usa news there are talk about a war between Japan and China. China also set up Air Defense Zone in 2013 further the tensions. Unlike India and Vietnam which are both non aligned countries, and Philippines which the USA had already leaved. Any Chinese conflicts with Japan, Korea, and or Taiwan will involved the USA due to prior defense agreement.

Since then, Prime minster Abe of Japan trying to update the constitution for a standing Japanese army. Combined with that Abe also exert a great diplomatic powers. He reached a hand out for Malaysia, Vietnam, and Philippines or anyone have a claim against China. Of which the Philippines are happy to accept. Vietnam, who trying to stay neutral changed its mind after the oil rig incident in 2014. Japan Abe also shaking hand with India Modi, and further the talk of Quadrilateral Security Dialogue which involved India, Japan, USA, and Australia (the Asian NATO if you will). Abe also visited ALL ASEAN countries to route them into his corner. If not outright providing naval aid like Vietnam and Philippines then building up an economical relationship. China had improved life quality, which meant higher wage or higher business cost. Japan could use ASEAN as a manufacture source instead of China. Japan had built up quite a resume of strategic and comprehensive allies within regional power (like Thailand) to even weaker nations like Laos. I think Japan like improve all diplomatic relationship with all countries in South East Asia since the conflict with China

The latest major country that Japan is buying relationship with is Indonesia. Indonesia had been rather neutral with China. But the new prime minister Joko of Indonesia is as hawkish as Modi or Abe or China Xi. Indonesia is to build a new submarines fleet, some of the military stuffs will be purchase from Japan. Indonesia also stepped up its law to protect its border by shooting down any illegal vessels. Indonesia also denounce China's claim and Chinese passport (which changed the border extend to South China Sea) and reaffirm that Natuna islands are its own territory.

The USA had been a major ally to Japan. And with Abe coming visit to speak to congress, who know what it will turn out. Would it be another Israel Netanyahu?



*Part3: USA, Philippines, and Taiwan*


Spoiler



In modern history, the USA involvement in this part of Asia had always been in its relationship with China. After the Americans defeated the Spanish, the US became a major world power. Right away, they turned against their former allies, the Philippines. Some bullshit reasons was use such as Christianize the heathens (in which the Filipinos were Christians to begin with due to Spain). But Philippines was the American’s major route to the Chinese market and its near 1 billion citizen back in the day (I think). The Americans pushed forward the open door policy so that Europe cannot monopolize China, and also participate in things like the Boxer Rebellions.

The USA went to war in Korea and Vietnam is also because of China. We often hear of the domino theory, but the first piece that fell was China. It took the USA by surprise, and this is the start of our ties with Taiwan (the noncommunist). When China developed nuclear weapons, the Americans panic. Going to war in Korea, American troops directly confront the Chinese troops. A much more bloody war was fought in Vietnam (in which going against all American’s principles) was also due to a fear of China. Vietnam had drained the American resource, and the anti war movement became more popular. America want to withdraw but by then North Vietnam is kinda done talking after much backstabbed by both sides. Nixon, the sly dog, finally get the withdraw with honor that he and former president Johnson was looking for. The opportunity was the Sino-Soviet split, and Nixon shook hand with the Chinese erasing their true threat in Asia.

While America busying itself in the Middle East, China had risen strong enough to threaten American interest in Asia which including the freedom of navigation in the sea and air. Under Obama’s presidency, there is a pivot to Asia. You often hear complain that Obama is going on through too many vacations. But it was to established diplomacies to contain China. It is of no news really. America and China friendly on the outside but had been waging diplomatic, economical, and cyber warfare ages ago. For example, China and Russia opposed the USA all the way in anything related to the Middle East.

Taiwan is pretty unique in a way that both mainland China government and Taiwan government claimed to be the one and only official government of China. China still think Taiwan as a province. This meant, China and Taiwan’s claim in South China Sea mirror each other. Each claimed the same 90%. But in term of war in South China Sea. It may start in Taiwan. So many Chinese and Taiwanese are waiting for the coming 2020. If it escalate to war, then the USA will have to step in.

Of all the ASEAN claimants, Philippines barked the loudest. Despite, the USA withdraw all/most of its military presence in 1992, Philippines still has a very good friend in the USA and had a defense treaty. The status of these treaty across time (I am not really sure of). There are military exercises among the 2 countries in 2012. By 2014, it seemed like American military are returning to the Philippine based on agreement of the higher ups in both countries. Defense treaty are also update. 

Philippines are military weaker than both Vietnam and Malaysia and yet openly confront China every step of the way due to the backing of the Americans. On one hand, Philippines resolved its border dispute with Indonesia and talking to Malaysia to end their dispute. On another hand, Philippines are challenging China in international court (which China didn’t bother to attend). This is not rare because Vietnam also resolving its dispute with Malaysia in a joint statement in 2009. Likewise Indonesia and Australia is putting away their differences despite being major regional competitors. Philippines and Vietnam are putting their differences away after the oil rig incident of last year. They even played volleyball on the beach of an island used to be dispute by both side. The volleyball match didn’t make the Chinese officials too happy. Philippines who used to be the lone voice within ASEAN is now has the backing of Vietnam in their legal challenge against China, and building strong tie with South Korea (Filipinos troops fought in Korea). With Japan and America sending and selling naval upgrade. Their outlook is slightly better.



*Part 4: Vietnam*


Spoiler



Why did Vietnam have its own section? Because that one Chinese press single out Vietnam as the only country that China need to teach a lesson to warn others among ASEAN. In the past 100 years, Vietnam involved in 5 major wars and somehow ended up on the not losing side. Starting with WW1 where there are some 100,000 vietnamese fought in Europe. To WW2 fighting against the Japanese and helping American down planes. Ho Chi Minh’s force Vietminh (who later became branch out to be Vietcong) were supplied by the Americans. They fought against the French in 1st Indochina war, the Americans in 2nd Indochina war, and the Chinese/Cambodia in the 3rd Indochina war. These wars and colonialization had leaved Vietnam a shamble mess with millions upon millions of death, devastation to biodiversity, and reduced infrastructure to rubbles. Combined with sanction from China and America after the war, it is only recently that the country resurrect itself into a regional player. A possible war with China will set back much progress.

Funny enough, Americans were involved with Vietnam in 4 of those 5 wars (all 5 wars but there is no contact in WW1). With the last war was partly result in the diplomatic relationship with China. There are history that isn’t widely discuss in the west such as American funding of Pol Pot (one of the worst modern mass murder) even in exile in Thailand (another country who had historic tie with the USA). America pay for the French war because of China, they went into Vietnam because of China, they leaved Vietnam because of China. And now they pivot back to Asia because of China. The USA had recently lift arm ban to Vietnam. And there are further talk of lifting all bans plus possible military relationship with Vietnam. But for that to happen, America will make demands. One of which just about a week ago, America tell Vietnam to stop letting Russia refueling their airplane in Cam Ranh Bay. I won’t get into Vietnam war, because the amount of hypocrisy and misinformation in that war made my blood boil. Vietnam would then had to choose between its historical allies with a new one. Russia, of course, had a hand on building Vietnam’s modern navy fleet and renew Cam Ranh Bay.

Ho Chi Minh famously said, "The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life." And that is the attitude of Vietnam toward French, American, and Chinese. Indeed, there is little enmity toward either the France or the USA. But Vietnam and China has one of the longest rivalry in history (one writer actually go as far as dubbed as the longest war in history but I don’t really think it is a continuous war). China and Vietnam did build a relationship during the first 2 indochina wars. Despite some promises from the top officials, the naval Chinese invasion against South Vietnam and wrestle those islands from South Vietnam, enraged the North Vietnam and turn their relationship sour since. It doesn’t matter it is North or South Vietnamese. Against what they perceived as a foreign enemies, they had the same view. Four years after the American left, in 1979, Vietnam fought a brief war with China. In less than 4 weeks, the Chinese lost almost as many troops as the Americans lost in 20 years in Vietnam. Both sides claimed victory. Since then there are plenty of skirmishes at sea including in 1988.

The relationship between both countries had been much warmer in the 90s. Vietnam was gather stay neutral in South China Sea. At the same time, it bought 6 kilo submarines from Russia forming what would be the strongest submarines fleet in South East Asia (until the other countries caught up with their military spending/which is pretty soon), and many other advance battle ships from Europe also. This trend is also seen in Malaysia and Indonesia. On one hand, they don’t want to offend their business partner, China. On the other hand, they increase military spending at an alarming rate. Of the 4 claimants that aren’t Taiwan or China, Brunei is too small to do anything. Philippines and Vietnam are the closest to China. While Malaysia enjoyed its much much longer distance away from China. Vietnam would soon feel the risk of being too geography close to China by full in 2014 when the Chinese put a gigantic oil rig in the dispute area. Like many time before it, a massive ramming of ships. On one hand, we have the Chinese military. On the other hand, we have Vietnamese fishermen. We know how the story will ended up. China had enforced some laws that restricted all foreign fishermen to fish in the 90% area claimed by China. Like with the Air defense zone, this seriously infringe on the freedom to navigate.

With the oil rig incident, it triggered a giant transformation in Vietnam. Anti Chinese protest across Vietnam and Vietnamese community across the world. The government of Vietnam tend to crack down in public protest, allow it happened (show a sign of supporting the sentiments). Some set themselves on fire in protest. The protests turned violent in my hometown, Binh Duong, resulted in deaths, injuries, and burn down of business (that including the Taiwanese). I strongly condemn these attacks. But I could understand the reason why they targeted the Taiwanese. Since Taiwan had the exact same 90% claimed like China and has its fair share of boat ramming and arrested fishermen with Vietnam. Foreign factories also treat native workers like shit and the work condition tend to be awful. But still, the protests would have been much more effective peacefully.

Since the oil rig, Prime Minister Dung had stepped up diplomacy. Among which are the Philippines, Japan, and India. Vietnam is the major focus on India’s look east policy. In fact, Vietnam invited India to explore for oil in Vietnam shore to balance out China. While India looking for an opportunity to poke China in the eyes for its own border dispute. In many way, India is the only Asian friend that Vietnam have. India from the start had opposed the French, the American, and the Chinese for all 3 Indochina wars. This time around, India offered 100 million dollars of credit for the Vietnamese to buy arms from India. The biggest prize that Vietnam want is the BrahMos missiles that developed by India and Russia. Vietnam would need approval from both countries and it seemed like it will likely get it in the near future. This is what I meant by Russia undermining China by selling Vietnam weapons. 

Prime Minster Dung like Abe and Modi (who build up ties with all South Asian neighbors and now branching out South East Asian neighbors) are stepping up on diplomacy big time. Not just with the Philippines, India, Japan, and USA but the rest of ASEAN developing strategic partnerships (Thailand, Singapore, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, and Cambodia). The latest news came from Australia and New Zealand, it seemed like Australia will trained some of the Vietnamese navy.

Vietnam knew its own position. That if a war to break out, no one will come to its aid. Building up diplomacy and military is the only deterrence to war while maintain its own interest.



*Part 5: the rest of ASEAN and the Chinese diplomacy prowess*


Spoiler



Much like India’s Modi, Japan’s Abe, Russia’s Putin, and Obama, Xi Jinping of China also exert quite an amount of power across the globe extending to the Middle East, Africa, and America. Within South East Asia, Xi developed deep economic ties with many nations in ASEAN. Because each ASEAN countries head of the summit each year, friendly tie to China had been use to obstruct any real progress in the problem of South China Sea. For a long time, Philippines was the most vocal but other nations do want a resolution to this problem. Cambodia lead in 2012 and blocked out Philippines. Likewise Myanmar in 2014 blocked out Vietnam and Philippines. ASEAN don’t always share the same interest. Many don’t have territorial conflict with China but they had grants, aids, and loans from China. This is why Japan building relationship with these countries are crucial because Japan would wrestle the Chinese grip in their economy.

Thailand had a military coup in 2014. And at its stand, America is losing its grip with the Thais as the new Thai government had grown closer to China. So Thailand moving closer and closer to neutral ground. Laos and Cambodia are heavily reliance to China. Cambodia’s Pol Pot regime was an ally to China (and support secretly by the USA). Both China and USA condemn the war between Cambodia and Vietnam in 1979. I will used the wiki as a neutral source, and the wiki stated that Cambodia started the conflict. Even though, Vietnam removed the genocide dictator of Pol Pot. It has bad rep for stay too long to keep the country in order. Hence Cambodia still feel a tie to China (and with the new economical reliance). Though Cambodia still also heavily relied in Vietnam also, and they stepping up defense. This could be the effect of the Japanese’s diplomacy. Laos, too, had become a strategic partner to Japan recently.

I really don’t know what the hell going with Burma/Myanmar. They have some sort of civil war or something. There are articles that said rising anti China sentiment in Burma. But I have no clue of the background, beside in third world countries, populace opinions don’t matter. It is whoever the dictator/government in charge that dictate the policies. And I don’t know what is going on.

I already mentioned Indonesia throughout. Brunei is too small of a country to do anything. Singapore is very wealthy to not being influenced by China, though most of its population is ethnically Chinese. Singapore also has no stake in South China Sea. But it has been assertive and say international laws should be follow. Malaysia would be the last country I will touched on. Malaysia also has sizable Chinese population but also has a very violent/deadly anti-China protest in the past. Malaysia is a claimant in South China Sea but like Vietnam before, it has been staying neutral. China has very great influences in Malaysia; hence, Malaysia had been really careful on what it saying on international forum. And like Indonesia and others, Malaysia is building up its navy. In 2009, it resolved dispute with Vietnam. Malaysia enjoyed its distance away from China as China coming to conflict with her most immediate neighbors (Japan, Vietnam, Philippines). But recently, the Chinese navy are making its presence in Malaysia’s James Shoal. Malaysia’s route probably is diversify its strong with regional powers like India, Japan, Indonesia, and Australia. Unlike Vietnam (who had no countries to back it up if there is a war broke out), Malaysia and Singapore are in Five Power Defence Arrangements with Australia, New Zealand, and United Kingdom. Malaysia has time and options.



For the most part, each countries are trying to deter war while protecting their own interests (including China). If a war broke out, it should set back all progress had been made since colonial time. An Asian century may not happen. If China made the wrong move, it could drag the USA to war. But with all the analysis, I doubt it will come to war. But nationalism is on the rise. Tangle alliances are being made. And there is an arm race. The same sort of factors that led to WW1. All left is an assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.

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## Indos

@liubang

Thanks mate, I will read it later before giving you another positive ratings or just a simple thanks 

Mate, what is the title ....?

It seems to me you are interested to be a writer some day, is that true mate.....?

@Nihonjin1051

Bro, maybe you are interested reading this one.

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## Aepsilons

Thanks for tagging me bro @Indos ! Welcome to the forum @liubang , i'll read your essay later today, perhaps you can join us in other threads here. Good to see a new member into the forum that has an open mind.

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## SQ8

*Please refrain from off topic posts or you will be banned from the section. Also, all Vietnamese members are requested to stick to English descriptions as it helps other nationalities understand what is going on. *

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## William Hung

Moscow acknowledges Hanoi's right to diversify its military-technological cooperation - diplomat | Russia Beyond The Headlines

So a Russian official has spoken up about the VN-Russia-US relation and basically said it is normal, no big deal.



> Russia is a priority partner for Vietnam to develop military-technological cooperation with, but Hanoi is also entitled to develop such cooperation with other countries, says Russian Ambassador to Hanoi Konstantin Vnukov.
> 
> "The Russian Federation is legitimately viewed as a priority partner for Vietnam in the military-technological cooperation sector. The leadership of the Vietnamese National Defense Ministry, which usually highly praises cooperation with our country in this sector, has repeatedly declared this," Vnukov said in an interview with Interfax.
> 
> "At the same time, we acknowledge Vietnam's right to diversify its military-technological ties," Vnukov said when asked about Moscow's attitude toward Washington's decision at the end of 2014 to lift an arms embargo from Vietnam and whether Russia expected tougher competition with the U.S. on the Vietnamese weapons market.
> 
> "Our Vietnamese friends perfectly know about and highly value Russia's willingness to further strengthen and expand military-technological interaction with Vietnam, which is not conditioned by any political stipulations, is aimed exclusively at improving Vietnam's defense capability and is not targeted at third countries," Vnukov said.



To the mods (@Oscar) or admins, there were a few posts made just earlier by @liubang and myself that has been deleted or auto-moderated.

Let me say this, everyone has a right to put on their flags, but if a user put on a flag and then write things that blatantly contradict his self-proclaimed identity, then people has the right to question him. This is especially true if that user posts things and claims that he is writing from the perspective of that country.

The person I had in mind in @liubang. I've mentioned his other posts already, but this post (that was just deleted from here) indicates that he is highly unlikely to be a Vietnamese:



liubang said:


> No, BUI (one of the 10 most common last name). It is actually my paternal grandma last name. My paternal grandpa last name is actually Nguyen. But I guess he was cheating on her or something. Liu Bang is the first emperor of Han who started the tradition of Confucianism. Luu Bang- hang vu- han tin. I meant come on every vietnamese had watch bao thanh thien, or tam quoc chi, or xa dieu anh hung truyen, or thien long bat bo.



He said he has watched "xa dieu anh hung truyen." But this is written blatantly in Chinese grammatical form (_射雕英雄传), not in Vietnamese grammar which is different. _

Just the other day, he said he could read and write in Viet. Then later back-tracked and said his Vietnamese language is bad because he migrated to the US when he was 11 so his Vietnamese skills is only at 5th grade level.

So now I want to ask the Vietnamese members here to confirm, would a 11 year old Vietnamese have such a bad sentence structure such as
"xa dieu anh hung truyen"??

@Soryu, @luoyue, @fadine, @Viet, @dichoi, @Carlosa, @NiceGuy,

Mods or admins, I respectfully request you to leave this post open and let the Vietnamese members deal with this. How would you like if someone put on a Pakistani or PRC flag and post questionable things claiming they are from the perspective of Pakistan/China?


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## SQ8

Yorozuya said:


> Mods or admins, I respectfully request you to leave this post open and let the Vietnamese members deal with this. How would you like if someone put on a Pakistani or PRC flag and post questionable things claiming they are from the perspective of Pakistan/China?



People can have different perspectives and it would behove you and other viets to let that opinion be and not try to suppress it. In either case, unless there is offensive material being posted that amounts to trolling or flaming; the user has the right to post and in that I am not flexible. 
I suggest all return to the topic at hand and avoid further derailment.


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## William Hung

Oscar said:


> People can have different perspectives and it would behove you and other viets to let that opinion be and not try to suppress it. In either case, unless there is offensive material being posted that amounts to trolling or flaming; the user has the right to post and in that I am not flexible.
> I suggest all return to the topic at hand and avoid further derailment.



OK please let me write one last comment before I return to topic.

The issue is not about perspectives. A lot of Vietnamese here has different perspectives and have debated with each other a lot of time before. No problem with that.

I was talking about things that expose that user as a false flagger. He claimed he is a Vietnamese and that he can write in Vietnamese, but then one of his sentence structure in Vietnamese is entirely wrong (it was actually written in Chinese grammar which is entirely different), not even an 11 year old Vietnamese kid would make that mistake. If you don't believe me, then just wait for the other Viet members to confirm it for you.


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## SQ8

Yorozuya said:


> OK please let me write one last comment before I return to topic.
> 
> The issue is not about perspectives. A lot of Vietnamese here has different perspectives and have debated with each other a lot of time before. No problem with that.
> 
> I was talking about things that expose that user as a false flagger. He claimed he is a Vietnamese and that he can write in Vietnamese, but then one of his sentence structure in Vietnamese is entirely wrong, not even an 11 year old kid would make that mistake. If you don't believe me, then just wait for the other Viet members to confirm it for you.



Perhaps he writes bad Vietnamese. Take me for instance, I am born and bred in Pakistan for most of my life. Yet I can barely write urdu and my grammar and sentences are horrible. 
Its better not to take too much on what who is, debate what he is saying.


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## William Hung

Oscar said:


> Perhaps he writes bad Vietnamese. Take me for instance, I am born and bred in Pakistan for most of my life. Yet I can barely write urdu and my grammar and sentences are horrible.
> Its better not to take too much on what who is, debate what he is saying.



Well you're right, and I've always said judge people by their post contents and not their flags.(But when someone claims to be writing from the perspective of Vietnam, his self-proclaimed identity is now then part of the content.) 

Anyway, I'll just ignore this issue and return to topics. But the other members here should have the right to know about the issue I've raised and come to their own conclusions. So I respectfully request the mods to leave my previous 2 posts open. 

I'll now return back to topic. 

Thank you.


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## NiceGuy

Yorozuya said:


> He said he has watched "xa dieu anh hung truyen." But this is written blatantly in Chinese grammatical form (_射雕英雄传), not in Vietnamese grammar which is different. _
> 
> Just the other day, he said he could read and write in Viet. Then later back-tracked and said his Vietnamese language is bad because he migrated to the US when he was 11 so his Vietnamese skills is only at 5th grade level.
> 
> So now I want to ask the Vietnamese members here to confirm, would a 11 year old Vietnamese have such a bad sentence structure such as
> "xa dieu anh hung truyen"??
> 
> @Soryu, @luoyue, @fadine, @Viet, @dichoi, @Carlosa, @NiceGuy,
> 
> Mods or admins, I respectfully request you to leave this post open and let the Vietnamese members deal with this. How would you like if someone put on a Pakistani or PRC flag and post questionable things claiming they are from the perspective of Pakistan/China?


Yep, we say" Anh Hung Xa Dieu ", but some old man before 1975 still using grammar like him. Maybe Liubang is one of old men before 1975 


> *Xạ Điêu Anh Hùng Truyện update chap 80 - BlogTruyen.Com*
> blog*truyen*.com/*truyen*/*xa*-*dieu*-*anh*-*hung*-*truyen*
> 
> 20-03-2015 - Truyện Xạ Điêu Anh Hùng Truyện, truyện tranh Xạ Điêu Anh Hùng Truyện tiếng việt update mới nhất, Tất cả những ai đam mê kiếm hiệp chắc ...
> 
> *Xạ Điêu Anh Hùng Truyện - Truyện Tranh*
> truyentranh8.net › List Truyện A-Z › Truyện Mới
> 
> Click ngay để đọc truyện tranh Anh Hùng Xạ Điêu (Xạ Điêu Anh Hùng Truyện) chap mới nhất, trên web xem truyện online nhanh nhất VN. Bạn sẽ là người xem ...
> 
> *Xa Dieu Anh Hung Truyen - YouTube*
> ▶ 2:43
> Xa Dieu Anh Hung Truyen - YouTube
> 06-12-2006 - Tải lên bởi ASCKS
> Xa Dieu Anh Hung Truyen. ASCKS. SubscribeSubscribed ... Bo nay hinh nhu la "Anh hung xa dieu ...
> 
> *Đọc truyện online : Anh Hùng Xạ Điêu - Kiếm hiệp - Kim Dung*
> *truyen*.hixx.info/*truyen*/*truyen*-kiem-hiep/384/*Anh*-*Hung*-*Xa*-*Dieu*.html
> 
> Quách Tỉnh tuy được bảy quái nhân nuôi dưỡng truyền thụ võ công, nhưng khi trưởng thành lại hành hiệp trượng nghĩa. Trái lại Dương Khang tuy được Toàn ...


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## William Hung

NiceGuy said:


> Yep, we say" Anh Hung Xa Dieu ", but some old man before 1975 still using grammar like him. Maybe Liubang is one of old men before 1975



He said he is not those old anti-communist Vietnamese-American. He was thinking about joining the military for free education, an old man wouldn't do that lol. I've read lots of loopholes and contradictory things from him. But I can't discuss it here cos I'm already warned not to go offtopic.

I already had a clue who he is after I first read how he talks to martian2 like half of those CDF members (saying how good Martian's post is and asking where he can read more of his threads lol). Up to you what you think of him, I can't discuss this anymore otherwise I might get banned.


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## Viet

According to Colonel Do Tuan Cuong, Head of Technical Missile Institute, we now can self produce and assemble the electronic guidance system 9P516, used in Igla, short range anti aircraft missile.

Việt Nam chế tạo thành công "trái tim" tên lửa Igla - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

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## Viet

Retia (Czech Republic) delivers an upgraded version of election jamming system R-934U, in combination with early warning P-18M VHF radar.

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## BoQ77

Not only Caesar, as what I read, it seems that Vietnam started to modernize their army.
1 - Artillery. One of the reason for Caesar is their built in positioning data system SAGEM SIGMA 30.
2 - New tanks - I guess T-90
3 - UAV for artillery : Orbiter 2, 3

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## Aqsuperman

look like Israel weapons are on the rise :3 EXTRA + Orbiter will be a nice combination

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## Viet

P-18 early warning radar, VHF, maximum range of 250 km, can track 120 targets simultaneously.

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## Viet

test flight: the third transporter Airbus C-295M for the airforce. bearing number #8903.







sea trail: bearing number #CSB 8002 for the coast guard.





UAV Orbiter-3 (Israel): the version can be operated on surface warships.
Vietnam ups interest in unmanned Orbiter 3 - 3/3/2015 - Flight Global

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## Viet

for the 1st time ever, Su-30MK2 conducting night bombing excercise.

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## Viet

*PSR-90*
*
















KP-5 







MP-5















CornerShot (Israel)




*

*
*

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## Viet

*MP5
Corner Shot (Israel) with camera*


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## Aqsuperman

i dont think that is a PSR-90 . That is a Czech CZ-750 . PSR-90 is a semi-automatic rifle while the rifle above is clearly a bolt-action rifle


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## Viet

the pioneer












a sniper




_Vietnam Medical Corps sends personnel to south sudan, to assist the United Nations' peacekeeping missions._


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## Viet

According to Fincanteri (Italy), Vietnam is showing interest on the purchase of mini-submarines s-1000.

Sức mạnh tàu ngầm mini Việt Nam muốn mua

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Cool looking T-72 in the second pic. Are you saying Africans are the pioneers of the VPA?


ups...let me delete the pics.

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## Viet

_powerplay between the superpowers. and vietnam is inbetween. an article seen through "russian" eyes and perspective._


*How Vietnam Became the Pressure Point of Obama's'Pivot to Asia'*

Spunik
Asia & Pacific
*19:22 29.03.2015 *(updated 20:24 29.03.2015)









*In recent weeks, Vietnam has been thrust into the middle of the United States' growing confrontation with China in the South China Sea. We look at the timeline of events and how a fabricated "Vietnam Threat" has been conceived to counter what the US sees as the "China Threat."*

In recent weeks, Vietnam's role in the South China Sea has grown in prominence, as the US-China standoff in the South China Sea intensifies. As of Sunday, multiple publications, including the National Interest, have published articles about Vietnam's growing "killer" submarine capabilities, which are amped up as a "threat" and a "nightmare" to China. However, the rising tide of media attention to the prospects of a China-Vietnam confrontation is only part of a narrative that sees Vietnam courted into the US sphere of influence as part of a strategy to isolate and encircle China that began earlier in March.

*March 11. US Army Commander Pressures Vietnam Into Blocking Russian Access to Cam Ranh Bay*

*



*

Confrontation between the US and China rapidly escalated after March 11, when US Army Pacific Commander, General Vincent Brooks demanded that Vietnam stops allowing Russian refueling jets to land in its Cam Ranh Bay military base. Accusing Russia of "provocative flights" in the area, the commander said that it was "acting as a spoiler to our interests and the interests of others."

However, Russia and Vietnam have a close relationship around the base, which was leased by Russia between 1979 and 2002, showing that Vietnam sees it as a crucial part of it security.

*March 12. Vietnam Rebukes US Demands on Cam Ranh Bay, Crucial to Vietnam's Security*






Vietnam's military furiously rejected the demand, calling it "interference in the internal affairs of Vietnam, a sovereign state which determines its own policies for cooperating with its friends and partners." Much more important than stopping Russian strategic bomber flights, however, the decision to boot out Russian presence at the base would mean creating a significant impediment to Russian-Vietnamese cooperation in the area.

The strategic deep-sea Cam Ranh Bay base is crucial for Vietnam, as it is the center of the Vietnamese Navy's 3rd Regional Command, which is responsible for Vietnam's claims in the disputed Spratly Islands. In addition, Russia has been supplying Varshavyanka-class (Improved Kilo) submarines to Vietnam, which are stationed at Cam Ranh Bay. So far, three have been supplied, with the latest one arriving on January 28, and another three are are on order.

*March 14. Vietnam Affirms Commitment to Strategic Partnership With China*







Vietnam's recent military buildup, particularly its purchases of Russian submarines, is often credited to a growing confrontation with China, which had several military conflicts with the country since 1979. However, China seeks a constructive approach toward Vietnam, and has conducted joint patrols for the past 10 years in the Beibu Gulf, an oil-rich area that is disputed between China and Vietnam.

In addition to the joint patrols, a February 13 phone conversation between Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi and Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Pham Binh Minh established an outline for strategic cooperative partnership. The plan was unanimously affirmed on March 14, during the fourth consultation of the Working Group for Consultation on China-Vietnam Joint Maritime Development.

*March 20. US Navy Commander Intervenes in South China Sea Affairs, "Kibitzing" Joint Patrols*

The US meddling in the South China Sea did not end with an attempt to derail Russia-Vietnam relations. On March 20, Commander of the US Navy 7th Fleet, Vice Admiral Robert Thomas spoke at the ASEAN naval leaders meeting, and said that the US would support multinational patrols in the South China Sea.

"Uncle Sam has long been in the grip of many addictions, such as muscle-flexing, preaching and borrowing, but there has turned out to be one more: kibitzing," China's state news agency Xinhua responded in an editorial.
Accusing the US of double-dealing and machinations, China was understandably furious at the proposal, which would essentially nullify its agreements with Vietnam. According to Chinese military analysts, bringing in other countries which have claims to the islands, such as the Philippines, which China has escalated tensions with in recent days, as well as old-time rival Japan.

*Today. Vietnam in the Middle*

The final goal of the US pressure on Vietnam and intervention in the South China Sea dispute has been part of what Chinese military analysts see as a three-ring strategy that intends to encircle China in the Pacific. The goal emerged with the publication of the revised US maritime strategy on March 13, which seeks "all domain access" amid increasing political pressure to "counter China" in the Pacific.

The revised strategy has been rebuked by the Chinese military as an attempt to restrict China in the Pacific Ocean and the South China Sea based on the exaggeration of the "China threat." However, an accompaniment to the strategy seems to have been attempts to isolate Vietnam from Russia and its arms supplies, which allow Vietnam to retain independent influence, as well as to put a wedge into China and Vietnam's decades-long efforts to repair relations.

Read more: How Vietnam Became the Pressure Point of Obama's 'Pivot to Asia' / Sputnik International

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## Carlosa

Interesting footage of the new domestic electro-optical targeting system for AAA batteries: skip to 7:50 for that part. Courtesy of Kfztechniker, MP forum.

The video shows in great detail how a truck mounted electro-optical targeting system drives a number of AAA batteries. The truck also houses the command and control system.

The AAA batteries seem to be driven manually by their crews based on firing coordinates provided by the command and control unit. This would not be as accurate as if the AAA batteries have servos automatically driving the guns, but its an effective way to use the many AAA batteries that Vietnam has.

At one point the video shows an electronic board inserted in the guns and a display with led lights, I guess that's how the guidance is given to the gun crews and the led lights show when the gun is aiming at the right point.

@Viet @BoQ77 @Yorozuya It would be nice if the Viet members can provide a better English explanation of how the system works, in particular how the control unit guides the guns since the video is in Vietnamese, thanks.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Interesting footage of the new domestic electro-optical targeting system for AAA batteries: skip to 7:50 for that part. Courtesy of Kfztechniker, MP forum.
> 
> The video shows in great detail how a truck mounted electro-optical targeting system drives a number of AAA batteries. The truck also houses the command and control system.
> 
> The AAA batteries seem to be driven manually by their crews based on firing coordinates provided by the command and control unit. This would not be as accurate as if the AAA batteries have servos automatically driving the guns, but its an effective way to use the many AAA batteries that Vietnam has.
> 
> At one point the video shows an electronic board inserted in the guns and a display with led lights, I guess that's how the guidance is given to the gun crews and the led lights show when the gun is aiming at the right point.
> 
> @Viet @BoQ77 @Yorozuya It would be nice if the Viet members can provide a better English explanation of how the system works, in particular how the control unit guides the guns since the video is in Vietnamese, thanks.



Thanks for the video bro. I will watch it later on. For the mean time I can tag @liubang for you, he should be able to translate it.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Interesting footage of the new domestic electro-optical targeting system for AAA batteries: skip to 7:50 for that part. Courtesy of Kfztechniker, MP forum.
> 
> The video shows in great detail how a truck mounted electro-optical targeting system drives a number of AAA batteries. The truck also houses the command and control system.
> 
> The AAA batteries seem to be driven manually by their crews based on firing coordinates provided by the command and control unit. This would not be as accurate as if the AAA batteries have servos automatically driving the guns, but its an effective way to use the many AAA batteries that Vietnam has.
> 
> At one point the video shows an electronic board inserted in the guns and a display with led lights, I guess that's how the guidance is given to the gun crews and the led lights show when the gun is aiming at the right point.
> 
> @Viet @BoQ77 @Yorozuya It would be nice if the Viet members can provide a better English explanation of how the system works, in particular how the control unit guides the guns since the video is in Vietnamese, thanks.



in summary, they represent the new level of Vietnam AA upgradation for 37mm / 57mm batteries.
They're capable fighting in all weather, night or day without much difference.
By putting automation elements into batteries.

In details, each battery adopt electronic trigger and the electronic module for datalink.

The commander explained that in modern AAA model, the collective, processing systems could be customized in each gun, but Vietnam use a collective, processing, command center at company level ( about 6 AA guns), using optical electronics, imaging-thermal camera, night vision radars ... and so on, to collect, process and provide the coordinates to each gun.

The center could monitor how each gun, each operator follows, and they also use the corrective mechanics to correct the relative tolerance of each battery angle to the center in synchronization.

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## William Hung

@Carlosa, in the video, you can see 3 optical lens in the sensors unit. One of them is most likely for a laser range finder. 

Can someone here confirm?

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> @Carlosa, in the video, you can see 3 optical lens in the sensors unit. One of them is most likely for a laser range finder.
> 
> Can someone here confirm?



I think so, it only makes sense, all those electro optical sensors have one.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Interesting footage of the new domestic electro-optical targeting system for AAA batteries: skip to 7:50 for that part. Courtesy of Kfztechniker, MP forum.
> 
> The video shows in great detail how a truck mounted electro-optical targeting system drives a number of AAA batteries. The truck also houses the command and control system.
> 
> The AAA batteries seem to be driven manually by their crews based on firing coordinates provided by the command and control unit. This would not be as accurate as if the AAA batteries have servos automatically driving the guns, but its an effective way to use the many AAA batteries that Vietnam has.
> 
> At one point the video shows an electronic board inserted in the guns and a display with led lights, I guess that's how the guidance is given to the gun crews and the led lights show when the gun is aiming at the right point.
> 
> @Viet @BoQ77 @Yorozuya It would be nice if the Viet members can provide a better English explanation of how the system works, in particular how the control unit guides the guns since the video is in Vietnamese, thanks.


okie not yet, I will look into this video later.

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## Viet

Viet said:


> okie not yet, I will look into this video later.


dear comrades,

well, the first part of about introduction of a Nato rifle. I just wonder if the army is interested of it?

the second part is about the new developed firing guidance and controll system for AAA 37mm gun. the system is hosted on a truck. it consists of a laser range finder, that identifies not only the target, but it´s coordinate, direction and speed. infrared camera for night vision, radar for target acquisition. if a target such as a aircraft or low flying cruise missile is identified, the guidance system transfers the data and commandos via wireless link to a control unit, that is integrated in each AAA gun. the guns will be coordinated to concentrate the fire on the target. Usually 6 guns form a AAA unit. the system can operate days and nights, in all weather conditions. 

the most disadvantage of the system is it´s half-automatic target acquisition and fire control system. once the laser/radar/infrared finds a target, the commander steps in and makes decision.

the video mentions that is the first time, we have built such a sophisticated system.

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## frequency

Viet said:


> dear comrades,
> 
> well, the first part of about introduction of a Nato rifle. I just wonder if the army is interested of it?
> 
> the second part is about the new developed firing guidance and controll system for AAA 37mm gun. the system is hosted on a truck. it consists of a laser range finder, that identifies not only the target, but it´s coordinate, direction and speed. infrared camera for night vision, radar for target acquisition. if a target such as a aircraft or low flying cruise missile is identified, the guidance system transfers the data and commandos via wireless link to a control unit, that is integrated in each AAA gun. the guns will be coordinated to concentrate the fire on the target. Usually 6 guns form a AAA unit. the system can operate days and nights, in all weather conditions.
> 
> the most disadvantage of the system is it´s half-automatic target acquisition and fire control system. once the laser/radar/infrared finds a target, the commander steps in and makes decision.
> 
> the video mentions that is the first time, we have built such a sophisticated system.



Do you have any connections on military weapons? I need some.


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> According to Fincanteri (Italy), Vietnam is showing interest on the purchase of mini-submarines s-1000.
> 
> Sức mạnh tàu ngầm mini Việt Nam muốn mua



This photo is from project Amur 950
ЦКБ МТ Рубин: Amur 950

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> dear comrades,
> 
> well, the first part of about introduction of a Nato rifle. I just wonder if the army is interested of it?
> 
> the second part is about the new developed firing guidance and controll system for AAA 37mm gun. the system is hosted on a truck. it consists of a laser range finder, that identifies not only the target, but it´s coordinate, direction and speed. infrared camera for night vision, radar for target acquisition. if a target such as a aircraft or low flying cruise missile is identified, the guidance system transfers the data and commandos via wireless link to a control unit, that is integrated in each AAA gun. the guns will be coordinated to concentrate the fire on the target. Usually 6 guns form a AAA unit. the system can operate days and nights, in all weather conditions.
> 
> the most disadvantage of the system is it´s half-automatic target acquisition and fire control system. once the laser/radar/infrared finds a target, the commander steps in and makes decision.
> 
> the video mentions that is the first time, we have built such a sophisticated system.



Thank you bro, are you sure it has radar? I didn't see any radar antenna.



Barmaley said:


> This photo is from project Amur 950
> ЦКБ МТ Рубин: Amur 950



Project Amur 950 and Fincanteri S-1000 are versions of the same submarine, the 2 companies are working together to develop an attractive export option, but I'm not sure if they are still working together after the sanctions on Russia.


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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> Project Amur 950 and Fincanteri S-1000 are versions of the same submarine, the 2 companies are working together to develop an attractive export option, but I'm not sure if they are still working together after the sanctions on Russia.



This is project going is way too long. Work at project started in 2004 and still not a single prototype wasn't constructed. Project was aimed at South-Africa and Egypt, btw.

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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> This is project going is way too long. Work at project started in 2004 and still not a single prototype wasn't constructed. Project was aimed at South-Africa and Egypt, btw.



Amur 950 looks mighty powerful with that 10 cell VLS, but I really wonder if Russia fixed all the problems in the Lada including the AIP system, Amur is the export version of Lada after all.

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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> Amur 950 looks mighty powerful with that 10 cell VLS, but I really wonder if Russia fixed all the problems in the Lada including the AIP system, Amur is the export version of Lada after all.


Literally yesterday, our AIP successfully completed trials at the land and preparing for the sea trials. So, i guess till the end of this year AIP will be ready to serial production.
In the news also was said that the AIP is very different from the exist products on the market and gives an ability to submarine swim underwater without surfacing for 2-3 weeks and can be installed not only on new submarine, but also on submarines during their modernisation. 

News in Russian
В России начинаются испытания уникальной энергоустановки для подлодок | РИА Новости

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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> Literally yesterday, our AIP successfully completed trials at the land and preparing for the sea trials. So, i guess till the end of this year AIP will be ready to serial production.
> In the news also was said that the AIP is very different from the exist products on the market and gives an ability to submarine swim underwater without surfacing for 2-3 weeks and can be installed not only on new submarine, but also on submarines during their modernisation.
> 
> News in Russian
> В России начинаются испытания уникальной энергоустановки для подлодок | РИА Новости



Wow, that's really good news, Vietnam should seriously consider the Amur.

Indeed, the Lada AIP its supposed to put out twice the power compared to what is already in the market and without using dangerous chemicals as is the case with the German AIP.

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## Nike

Barmaley said:


> Literally yesterday, our AIP successfully completed trials at the land and preparing for the sea trials. So, i guess till the end of this year AIP will be ready to serial production.
> In the news also was said that the AIP is very different from the exist products on the market and gives an ability to submarine swim underwater without surfacing for 2-3 weeks and can be installed not only on new submarine, but also on submarines during their modernisation.
> 
> News in Russian
> В России начинаются испытания уникальной энергоустановки для подлодок | РИА Новости



how can they be so sure about the safety of the system, if they are not intended to test the system on real Submarine boat?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Thank you bro, are you sure it has radar? I didn't see any radar antenna..


ahem...not sure, you may be right. in the video they speak a technical language, hardly to pick the real english translation.


Carlosa said:


> Project Amur 950 and Fincanteri S-1000 are versions of the same submarine, the 2 companies are working together to develop an attractive export option, but I'm not sure if they are still working together after the sanctions on Russia.


russia has the industrial capacity, and can make such subs alone without foreign help.
another topic I am really curious what the russian PM has to say when he comes.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> how can they be so sure about the safety of the system, if they are not intended to test the system on real Submarine boat?



Its just about power generation, its a self contained system, I don't think they need to test it in a boat at all.



Viet said:


> russia has the industrial capacity, and can make such subs alone without foreign help.
> another topic I am really curious what the russian PM has to say when he comes.



I also wonder about that, more toys coming.


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Thank you bro, are you sure it has radar? I didn't see any radar antenna.


This project don't have radar, there is another project with 37mm AAA battery automatic control by radar, but they did not combine them yet, may be they want explore the technology before use them

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> This project don't have radar, there is another project with 37mm AAA battery automatic control by radar, but they did not combine them yet, may be they want explore the technology before use them



Thank you, that makes sense.

The other project that uses radar, is that the one where the gun is mounted on a truck?


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Thank you, that makes sense.
> 
> The other project that uses radar, is that the one where the gun is mounted on a truck?



I'm not sure on 37mm but 57mm has its radar during 1960s.


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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> This project don't have radar, there is another project with 37mm AAA battery automatic control by radar, but they did not combine them yet, may be they want explore the technology before use them



These ones (14.5 mm) already have the motor servos and can be guided by optoelectronic sensors or by radar (external radar):











Thao Nguyen said:


> This project don't have radar, there is another project with 37mm AAA battery automatic control by radar, but they did not combine them yet, may be they want explore the technology before use them



Do you have any pictures of the 37 / 57 mm automatic guns controlled by radar?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ahem...not sure, you may be right. in the video they speak a technical language, hardly to pick the real english translation.
> 
> russia has the industrial capacity, and can make such subs alone without foreign help.
> another topic I am really curious what the russian PM has to say when he comes.



Fresh out of the rumor mill of comcom:

** The Il-96, carrying the preparation crew of Russian Prime Minister, has arrived in Vietnam. In the two days visit, Russian PM and Vietnamese colleague will sign a major arm deal for the Vietnamese Air Force and Ground Forces.

Notably is the procurement of an initial batch of 12 Su-30SMV 4++ gen fighters (worth more than 1 billion US dollars). The two countries will also negotiate about the transferring of technology and production line for modern defense systems, possibly along with 125mm tank rounds for T-72B3 and T-90SV main battle tanks.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Fresh out of the rumor mill of comcom:
> 
> ** The Il-96, carrying the preparation crew of Russian Prime Minister, has arrived in Vietnam. In the two days visit, Russian PM and Vietnamese colleague will sign a major arm deal for the Vietnamese Air Force and Ground Forces.
> 
> Notably is the procurement of an initial batch of 12 Su-30SMV 4++ gen fighters (worth more than 1 billion US dollars). The two countries will also negotiate about the transferring of technology and production line for modern defense systems, possibly along with 125mm tank rounds for T-72B3 and T-90SV main battle tanks.
> 
> View attachment 210623



Vietnam really start the modernization of their land unit?
And Su-30SM deal is real ?


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam really start the modernization of their land unit?
> And Su-30SM deal is real ?



Too soon to say for sure, but it does look like it.


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## Aqsuperman

well comcom also said ( of course rumour too) that a small numbers of BM-30 and SA-22 are already in active service, Isk batteries also in route........with luck i may squezze out some picture soon enough :v

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> well comcom also said ( of course rumour too) that a small numbers of BM-30 and SA-22 are already in active service, Isk batteries also in route........with luck i may squezze out some picture soon enough :v



Oh yes, all that is well know already, the Smerch is more of a recent rumor, but probably right too and considering what the Ukrainian war has shown (again), artillery is the mother of all battles and VN didn't have anything in the 300 mm range, so it makes sense.

Good luck trying to get pics of those, I would say that you'll have to wait a while.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Fresh out of the rumor mill of comcom:
> 
> ** The Il-96, carrying the preparation crew of Russian Prime Minister, has arrived in Vietnam. In the two days visit, Russian PM and Vietnamese colleague will sign a major arm deal for the Vietnamese Air Force and Ground Forces.
> 
> Notably is the procurement of an initial batch of 12 Su-30SMV 4++ gen fighters (worth more than 1 billion US dollars). The two countries will also negotiate about the transferring of technology and production line for modern defense systems, possibly along with 125mm tank rounds for T-72B3 and T-90SV main battle tanks.
> 
> View attachment 210623


why Su-30SMV so expensive? I recall we paid $600m for the MKV version. okie, hier is my wish list:
- 6 more kilo subs (or armur), and 6 more gepard frigates to be produced under license.



frequency said:


> Do you have any connections on military weapons? I need some.


no bro, I am just a amateur poster.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> why Su-30SMV so expensive? I recall we paid $600m for the MKV version. okie, hier is my wish list:
> - 6 more kilo subs (or armur), and 6 more gepard frigates to be produced under license.



Because that's Su-30SMV, SM is the key point there, that's the upgraded version of SU-30, also known as super SU-30. It has many of the things from SU-35.



Viet said:


> - 6 more kilo subs (or armur), and 6 more gepard frigates to be produced under license.
> .



The Gepards are not worth it unless they are an advance version. There are many models of the Gepards, but the version that Vietnam ordered is actually the worse one.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> why Su-30SMV so expensive? I recall we paid $600m for the MKV version. okie, hier is my wish list:
> - 6 more kilo subs (or armur), and 6 more gepard frigates to be produced under license..



This is a good Gepard, this is what Vietnam should it have ordered:

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## Viet

carlosa, the russian ambassador to vietnam, vasilievich was asked if moscow will help increase our defensive military capacity, he said, *“Russia and Vietnam will continue our bilateral military cooperation to make sure that Vietnam’s sky, earth, and territorial sea waters are strongly protected.”*

I hope he will put a serious offer on the table.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> carlosa, the russian ambassador to vietnam, vasilievich was asked if moscow will help increase our defensive military capacity, he said, *“Russia and Vietnam will continue our bilateral military cooperation to make sure that Vietnam’s sky, earth, and territorial sea waters are strongly protected.”*
> 
> I hope he will put a serious offer on the table.



I hope so bro, I'm looking forward to find out the details of the offer.


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> The Gepards are not worth it unless they are an advance version. There are many models of the Gepards, but the version that Vietnam ordered is actually the worse one.


when Vietnam first order Gerpads, this model have just a few ship in Russian Navies, after selling to Vietnam, they start to modenize these model, after that this model get better, you can see that 3rd and 4th gerpad become better with torpedo, may be 5th and 6th can more advanced

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## frequency

Thao Nguyen said:


> when Vietnam first order Gerpads, this model have just a few ship in Russian Navies, after selling to Vietnam, they start to modenize these model, after that this model get better, you can see that 3rd and 4th gerpad become better with torpedo, may be 5th and 6th can more advanced



It's just money grabber. That's why Vietnam should develop its own.


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## Thao Nguyen

Việt Nam nhận 'ngựa thồ quân sự' C-295M thứ hai
Second C-295 start delivery to Vietnam, well come home


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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> when Vietnam first order Gerpads, this model have just a few ship in Russian Navies, after selling to Vietnam, they start to modenize these model, after that this model get better, you can see that 3rd and 4th gerpad become better with torpedo, may be 5th and 6th can more advanced



Actually, the first Gepard for Russia had a Shtil 12 cell VLS and they already had a number of variants. I think Vietnam went for a simple one because they were afraid of making a mistake as with the BPS-500 so they bought the cheapest one to reduce the risk. It would it have been better to start earlier with the Sigmas and not to spend years negotiating the contract. The Gepard is quite inferior to the Sigma in many aspects and the information that I have is that the navy is not happy with it because of the same reasons. If the only difference in the second batch is just the ASW package, then that will be another disappointment.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I hope so bro, I'm looking forward to find out the details of the offer.


do you know why we have chosen a modernized version su-30 (sm) instead of su-35?


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> do you know why we have chosen a modernized version su-30 (sm) instead of su-35?


 Personally i think that while the Su-35 is quite advanced its only have 1 crew , so he must pilot the plane and control the weapon systems at the same time which will put enormous stress on lengthy misson , the Su-30SM otherwhile have 2 crew , 1 pilot and 1 WSO , will have a better efficentcy plus its have plenty of new toys on it compare to older variant , so when it come to a fight it will perform rather well even with the Su-35  ..............but of course maybe we cant purchase Su-35 right now because of the limited budget and some funds are already relocate to some other Western aircraft ? :v

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Personally i think that while the Su-35 is quite advanced its only have 1 crew , so he must pilot the plane and control the weapon systems at the same time which will put enormous stress on lengthy misson , the Su-30SM otherwhile have 2 crew , 1 pilot and 1 WSO , will have a better efficentcy plus its have plenty of new toys on it compare to older variant , so when it come to a fight it will perform rather well even with the Su-35  ..............but of course maybe we cant purchase Su-35 right now because of the limited budget and some funds are already relocate to some other Western aircraft ? :v


that makes sense considering the operating and maintenance cost would be higher if we opted for su-35 instead.
however I see as a critical point about the relative high cost of the su-30sm version. unless we get the new planes with weapons, trainings, service packets included.

su-30sm








Carlosa said:


> Actually, the first Gepard for Russia had a Shtil 12 cell VLS and they already had a number of variants. I think Vietnam went for a simple one because they were afraid of making a mistake as with the BPS-500 so they bought the cheapest one to reduce the risk. It would it have been better to start earlier with the Sigmas and not to spend years negotiating the contract. The Gepard is quite inferior to the Sigma in many aspects and the information that I have is that the navy is not happy with it because of the same reasons. If the only difference in the second batch is just the ASW package, then that will be another disappointment.


my point is that to convince russia to give us the license and technology to manufacture the next frigates and subs by ourselves. the gepard may be not the most advanced ship, but if we can build it that will advance our navy defence industry.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> do you know why we have chosen a modernized version su-30 (sm) instead of su-35?



As Aqsuperman said, the 2 pilots is a very important issue for Vietnam. India likes that too.

the SU-35 is actually more expensive than the SU-30SM.



Viet said:


> that makes sense considering the operating and maintenance cost would be higher if we opted for su-35 instead.
> however I see as a critical point about the relative high cost of the su-30sm version. unless we get the new planes with weapons, trainings, service packets included.
> 
> su-30sm
> View attachment 211092
> 
> 
> 
> my point is that to convince russia to give us the license and technology to manufacture the next frigates and subs by ourselves. the gepard may be not the most advanced ship, but if we can build it that will advance our navy defence industry.



Well, Vietnam will build the Sigmas and they have a better modular concept for building them, so that will be a better learning experience.



Viet said:


> that makes sense considering the operating and maintenance cost would be higher if we opted for su-35 instead.
> however I see as a critical point about the relative high cost of the su-30sm version. unless we get the new planes with weapons, trainings, service packets included..



Its too early to talk about the money, we don't know what is included, what type of weapon systems, etc.



Aqsuperman said:


> Personally i think that while the Su-35 is quite advanced its only have 1 crew , so he must pilot the plane and control the weapon systems at the same time which will put enormous stress on lengthy misson , the Su-30SM otherwhile have 2 crew , 1 pilot and 1 WSO , will have a better efficentcy plus its have plenty of new toys on it compare to older variant , so when it come to a fight it will perform rather well even with the Su-35  ..............but of course maybe we cant purchase Su-35 right now because of the limited budget and some funds are already relocate to some other Western aircraft ? :v



I would also like to see the SU-34 in the VPAF.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> As Aqsuperman said, the 2 pilots is a very important issue for Vietnam. India likes that too.
> 
> the SU-35 is actually more expensive than the SU-30SM
> 
> Well, Vietnam will build the Sigmas and they have a better modular concept for building them, so that will be a better learning experience.
> 
> Its too early to talk about the money, we don't know what is included, what type of weapon systems, etc.
> I would also like to see the SU-34 in the VPAF.


hm...I think we shall be able to manufacture both at home, sigma and gepard. considering we pay the same price for gepard and sigma: $600M for 2 pieces, then indeed sigma is a better deal.

by the way, what is your opinion of the visit of the communist party chief to china? I wonder why he does it now, and well before he makes the trip to america. since the oil rig provocation, for nearly a year, vietnam and chinese commie comrades don´t talk to each other. why now?


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## BoQ77

1. Su-30SM, developed from Su-MKI ... so development cost is Low, stability... the manufacture cost is cheap.
So Vietnam should push Russia to provide at low price. 

2. Sigma is not the first ship built based on modular design, but the first ship would be integrated with Western weapons, radars...
Integration is the harder job to learn. All expensive, including training cost. 

3. Gepard is the known design, with known weapons, weapons could be considered to be easy to integrate and cheap.
Agree that when Vietnam has first experience with Sigma, then the decision at that time would show which is preferable.

As my remind, schedule of building Sigma doesn't depend on Vietnam or Damen but USA.

Just few points in my opinion.

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## Viet

interesting event: a C-130 hercules transport aircraft of the US airforce in Danang


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## Viet

cool pic man










guided missile destroyer USS Fitzherald is enroute to the city, too. for a 5 day visit.





and this nice ship as well: littoral combat ship USS Forth Worth

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## cnleio

2015.04.02 Vietnam military officers visited PLAAF JH-7A bomber/fighter

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> As my remind, schedule of building Sigma doesn't depend on Vietnam or Damen but USA..



Do you know what elements in the Sigma ships require American permission?



BoQ77 said:


> 1. Su-30SM, developed from Su-MKI ... so development cost is Low, stability... the manufacture cost is cheap.
> So Vietnam should push Russia to provide at low price.
> 
> 2. Sigma is not the first ship built based on modular design, but the first ship would be integrated with Western weapons, radars...
> Integration is the harder job to learn. All expensive, including training cost.
> 
> 3. Gepard is the known design, with known weapons, weapons could be considered to be easy to integrate and cheap.
> Agree that when Vietnam has first experience with Sigma, then the decision at that time would show which is preferable.
> 
> As my remind, schedule of building Sigma doesn't depend on Vietnam or Damen but USA.
> 
> Just few points in my opinion.



Another way to go is to build a customized version of the Gepard with western weapon systems and radars. Russia already offers that in the Tornado class ships.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Do you know what elements in the Sigma ships require American permission?



Let's see the cases.

Six DHC-6-400 will be the* first aircraft to patrol the West produced for the Army in Vietnam* and was put on the payroll Brigade Naval Aviation 954

 

*May 4/2010:* Contract signed for 6 planes, 3 of which will be the Guardian maritime patrol variant.

Deliveries will take place from 2012 – 2014. All technical and flight training, from initial pilot qualification through to DHC-6 amphibious float operating experience, will be provided by Viking’s Pacific Sky Aviation, based at Victoria International Airport. In addition to Viking Air as a spares supplier, Team JAS in Jacksonville, FL and Universal Avionique Inc. in Miami, FL have become the first factory-endorsed component centers for Viking’s aircraft

*Nov 23/2011: Training.* Viking Air says that flight training has now begun in Victoria, B.C. for the first contingent of Vietnam Navy pilot delegates. It’s part of a 17-month course that includes English as a Second Language training at Camosun College, followed by flight and technical training at Viking’s sister organization, Pacific Sky Aviation.

If they run into any problems, Canada has a large Vietnamese community, especially on the west coast, so help is close at hand. Sources: Viking Air, Nov 23/11 release

*July 10/2013: Training.* The 1st contingent of Vietnam Navy pilot delegates graduate flight and maintenance training for the Viking Guardian 400. *They represent 8 of 37 total Vietnam People’s Navy students enrolled in the program*.

The program clocked about 500 flight hours and 350 cycles on runway, soft field, and water-based operations, with 6 weeks of mechanical training for the technicians. Viking Air Field Support Representatives will be based in Vietnam as a supplement. Sources: Viking Air, June 18/13 and July 10/13 releases.

*Sept 5/2013:* Vietnamese Navy chief of staff Vice Admiral Pham Ngoc Minh leads a ceremony in the northern city of Haiphong, forming the VPN’s DHC-6 seaplane squadron.

*July 14/2014: 1st Guardian MPA.* Ikhana Aircraft Services in Murrieta, CA congratulates Viking Air Ltd. and Israel’s IAI and ELTA Systems Ltd. on the delivery of Vietnam’s 1st DHC-6-400 “Guardian 400″ Twin Otter maritime patrol aircraft. Ikhana handled the conversion from DHC-6-400, using expertise from their RWMI DHC-6-300RG/-400RG™ Supplemental Type Certificate to increase maximum take-off weight, and adding internal systems along with IAI ELTA’s ELM-2022A maritime radar and day/night sensors.

When asked, Ikhana said that the other 2 Guardian 400s would be delivered by the end of the summer. Sources: Ikhana, “IKHANA Aircraft Services Congratulates Viking Air Ltd, ELTA, and the Vietnam People’s Navy for DHC-6-400 Twin Otter Guardian Delivery”.
4:28 PM - 22 Sep 2014




*David C. Curtis* ‏@*DHC6Otter*  Sep 24
@*vikingtwinotter* Fantastic news regarding *the second group of Vietnam Navy Twin Otter pilots*! Congratulations!



*IKHANA Aircraft* ‏@*IKHANAaircraft*  Sep 25 2014
Congrats to the team at @*vikingtwinotter* and the Vietnam Navy


The CN-295 case:

Venezuela


> Spain went ahead with the sale of patrol ships and corvettes, but was blocked by Washington from selling Caracas C-295 transport planes and patrol aircraft because they used sophisticated US electronics, eliciting a complaint by Spain's foreign minister cited in a cable from the US ambassador in January 2006, the Post said.







> [*]in 2006, the U.S. Government refused to authorize the sale of C-295 transport and maritime patrol aircraft manufactured by the Spanish aircraft manufacturer, EADS-CASA, to Venezuela because the aircraft included US-origin avionics and engine components controlled under the USML. As a consequence, EADS-CASA was forced to cancel a €500M contract with Venezuela; and
> [*]in 2006, Embraer of Brazil was also prevented from selling Super Tucano aircraft to Venezuela by the U.S.



Vietnam


> In 2006, Washington approved non-lethal military sales to Vietnam





> *The commodities included in license application number 050204437 * -- yoke balls and pins used to assemble electric motor pumps that are subsequently installed on C-295 aircraft -- are part of a an as-yet unsigned contract with the Vietnamese Marine Police, related to which the Department is already in possession of the end-use certificate for the pumps.





> Nonetheless, he confirmed the bona fides of the potential sale of five C295s which do contain ITAR-controlled equipment to end-user Vietnamese Air Force for the stated end use of transport and passenger carriers.



This is the subject of General Correspondence 2821-09 from November 2009


> According to de Teran, EADS decided to send the General Correspondence based on the fact that the planes incorporate U.S.-origin ITAR-listed items and knowing that USG policy toward Vietnam is to *approve such export licenses on a case-by-case basis*.


================================
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
22 July 2014
The three C295 transport aircraft that Vietnam has ordered from Airbus Defence and Space (DS) are scheduled to enter service with the Vietnamese air force from 2015, _IHS Jane's_ understands.

The purchase contract - thought to be secured in 2013 at a cost of about USD100 million - also includes the supply of spares, maintenance, and training to the air force, which is expected to take delivery of the aircraft at intervals of about six months.

It is also understood that the aircraft are being sold to Vietnam *in a basic transport configuration with no additional mission systems included*. Airbus DS's production of Vietnam's first C295 aircraft, which is currently under way in Seville, Spain, was revealed by _IHS Jane's_ in June, although contract details have not previously been disclosed.

==================================

The 20 categories of articles on the USML are:

Firearms, Close Assault Weapons and Combat Shotguns
Guns and Armament
Ammunition/Ordnance
Launch Vehicles, Guided Missiles, Ballistic Missiles, Rockets, Torpedoes, Bombs, and Mines
Explosives and Energetic Materials, Propellants, Incendiary Agents, and their Constituents
Vessels of War and Special Naval Equipment
Tanks and Military Vehicles
Aircraft and Associated Equipment
Military Training Equipment
Personal protective equipment
Military Electronics
Fire Control, Range Finder, Optical and Guidance and Control Equipment
Auxiliary Military Equipment
Toxicological Agents, Including Chemical Agents, Biological Agents, and Associated Equipment
Spacecraft Systems and Associated Equipment
Nuclear Weapons, Design and Testing Related Items
Classified Articles, Technical Data and Defense Services Not Otherwise Enumerated
Directed Energy Weapons
[Reserved]
Submersible Vessels, Oceanographic and Associated Equipment
Miscellaneous Articles
============================
So this one could be in the list, even after the lifting of arm sale ban last year:
*MBDA Exocet MM40 Block 3*

*MBDA* is a missile developer and manufacturer with operations in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States

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## Viet

China's Nightmare: Vietnam's New Killer Submarines | The National Interest

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Let's see the cases.
> 
> Six DHC-6-400 will be the* first aircraft to patrol the West produced for the Army in Vietnam* and was put on the payroll Brigade Naval Aviation 954
> 
> 
> 
> *May 4/2010:* Contract signed for 6 planes, 3 of which will be the Guardian maritime patrol variant.
> 
> Deliveries will take place from 2012 – 2014. All technical and flight training, from initial pilot qualification through to DHC-6 amphibious float operating experience, will be provided by Viking’s Pacific Sky Aviation, based at Victoria International Airport. In addition to Viking Air as a spares supplier, Team JAS in Jacksonville, FL and Universal Avionique Inc. in Miami, FL have become the first factory-endorsed component centers for Viking’s aircraft
> 
> *Nov 23/2011: Training.* Viking Air says that flight training has now begun in Victoria, B.C. for the first contingent of Vietnam Navy pilot delegates. It’s part of a 17-month course that includes English as a Second Language training at Camosun College, followed by flight and technical training at Viking’s sister organization, Pacific Sky Aviation.
> 
> If they run into any problems, Canada has a large Vietnamese community, especially on the west coast, so help is close at hand. Sources: Viking Air, Nov 23/11 release
> 
> *July 10/2013: Training.* The 1st contingent of Vietnam Navy pilot delegates graduate flight and maintenance training for the Viking Guardian 400. *They represent 8 of 37 total Vietnam People’s Navy students enrolled in the program*.
> 
> The program clocked about 500 flight hours and 350 cycles on runway, soft field, and water-based operations, with 6 weeks of mechanical training for the technicians. Viking Air Field Support Representatives will be based in Vietnam as a supplement. Sources: Viking Air, June 18/13 and July 10/13 releases.
> 
> *Sept 5/2013:* Vietnamese Navy chief of staff Vice Admiral Pham Ngoc Minh leads a ceremony in the northern city of Haiphong, forming the VPN’s DHC-6 seaplane squadron.
> 
> *July 14/2014: 1st Guardian MPA.* Ikhana Aircraft Services in Murrieta, CA congratulates Viking Air Ltd. and Israel’s IAI and ELTA Systems Ltd. on the delivery of Vietnam’s 1st DHC-6-400 “Guardian 400″ Twin Otter maritime patrol aircraft. Ikhana handled the conversion from DHC-6-400, using expertise from their RWMI DHC-6-300RG/-400RG™ Supplemental Type Certificate to increase maximum take-off weight, and adding internal systems along with IAI ELTA’s ELM-2022A maritime radar and day/night sensors.
> 
> When asked, Ikhana said that the other 2 Guardian 400s would be delivered by the end of the summer. Sources: Ikhana, “IKHANA Aircraft Services Congratulates Viking Air Ltd, ELTA, and the Vietnam People’s Navy for DHC-6-400 Twin Otter Guardian Delivery”.
> 4:28 PM - 22 Sep 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *David C. Curtis* ‏@*DHC6Otter*  Sep 24
> @*vikingtwinotter* Fantastic news regarding *the second group of Vietnam Navy Twin Otter pilots*! Congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> *IKHANA Aircraft* ‏@*IKHANAaircraft*  Sep 25 2014
> Congrats to the team at @*vikingtwinotter* and the Vietnam Navy
> 
> 
> The CN-295 case:
> 
> Venezuela
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the subject of General Correspondence 2821-09 from November 2009
> 
> 
> The 20 categories of articles on the USML are:
> 
> Firearms, Close Assault Weapons and Combat Shotguns
> Guns and Armament
> Ammunition/Ordnance
> Launch Vehicles, Guided Missiles, Ballistic Missiles, Rockets, Torpedoes, Bombs, and Mines
> Explosives and Energetic Materials, Propellants, Incendiary Agents, and their Constituents
> Vessels of War and Special Naval Equipment
> Tanks and Military Vehicles
> Aircraft and Associated Equipment
> Military Training Equipment
> Personal protective equipment
> Military Electronics
> Fire Control, Range Finder, Optical and Guidance and Control Equipment
> Auxiliary Military Equipment
> Toxicological Agents, Including Chemical Agents, Biological Agents, and Associated Equipment
> Spacecraft Systems and Associated Equipment
> Nuclear Weapons, Design and Testing Related Items
> Classified Articles, Technical Data and Defense Services Not Otherwise Enumerated
> Directed Energy Weapons
> [Reserved]
> Submersible Vessels, Oceanographic and Associated Equipment
> Miscellaneous Articles
> ============================
> So this one could be in the list, even after the lifting of arm sale ban last year:
> *MBDA Exocet MM40 Block 3*
> 
> *MBDA* is a missile developer and manufacturer with operations in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States



It would be much better to integrate the KH35 in the Sigma and also other air defense missiles such as Barak 8, problem solved and its much cheaper too.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> It would be much better to integrate the KH35 in the Sigma and also other air defense missiles such as Barak 8, problem solved and its much cheaper too.



Israeli missiles like EXTRA already purchased by Vietnam without problem.

So we understand why basic C-295 sold, not a C-295 AEW... LOL

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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> China's Nightmare: Vietnam's New Killer Submarines | The National Interest
> 
> View attachment 211548



Vietnam should concentrate on more Subs

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> It would be much better to integrate the KH35 in the Sigma and also other air defense missiles such as Barak 8, problem solved and its much cheaper too.


kh35 yes, but not sure for barak8 if the US continues keeping arms embargo.

american companies produce, hold patents of many critical components in warships and aircraft such as chips in fire control and guidance systems, not to mention the encryption technology for secure communications between warships, aircraft and central command. the US government can encourage or demand its allies to stop arms export to undesired countries.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> kh35 yes, but not sure for barak8 if the US continues keeping arms embargo.
> 
> american companies produce, hold patents of many critical components in warships and aircraft such as chips in fire control and guidance systems, not to mention the encryption technology for secure communications between warships, aircraft and central command. the US government can encourage or demand its allies to stop arms export to undesired countries.



As far as I know, Barak 8 is no problem.



Viet said:


> kh35 yes, but not sure for barak8 if the US continues keeping arms embargo.
> 
> american companies produce, hold patents of many critical components in warships and aircraft such as chips in fire control and guidance systems, not to mention the encryption technology for secure communications between warships, aircraft and central command. the US government can encourage or demand its allies to stop arms export to undesired countries.



When you have any sort of dependency from US, you always have to watch over your shoulders. They are always ready to use any leverage they have in order to influence or control you.


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## Aqsuperman

i dream of the day when our navy will be capable of mouting this guy on a ship


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> i dream of the day when our navy will be capable of mouting this guy on a ship



I think you'll dream for eternity, too big for a ship, plus all the exhaust gas / fire is too much for ship I think.


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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> I think you'll dream for eternity, too big for a ship, plus all the exhaust gas / fire is too much for ship I think.


Actually Its not that big , the MAZ-543 which is used to carrying it only about 11 meters long and 2.4 meters wide , we can put 2 of them on a open top ship (like a barge or a flat transport ship) BOOM we have a moving Scud batteries on the sea , the smoke and fire will be minimum by some blast shield and ventilation systems......but well put that in to praticce will be surely more difficult

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Actually Its not that big , the MAZ-543 which is used to carrying it only about 11 meters long and 2.4 meters wide , we can put 2 of them on a open top ship (like a barge or a flat transport ship) BOOM we have a moving Scud batteries on the sea , the smoke and fire will be minimum by some blast shield and ventilation systems......but well put that in to praticce will be surely more difficult



Hypersonic Brahmos coming up soon (Brahmos 2), mach speed 5 to 7.
That will do the job.


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## Viet

I read somewhere on a forum, our islands in the SC Sea are defended by the stationed marines corps, equipped with a total of 120 heavy guns (AAA, artillery _and _howitzer) and 60 medium tanks (T-54/55). the bunkers are built to withstand enemy artillery bombardment.





a new fast patrol vessel, FCS-5009, ready to launch. specs similar to Defiant 165 class. info thanks to comcom.





russia PM Medvedev is coming. a transport aircraft IL-76 just landed, with his crew and some "special" equippments. I hope he has a gift for me 





silent and deadly: a crossbow for special ops. not changed much since centuries.





the 4th Kilo is coming.





the coast guard observing foreign warships: friend or foe?





soldiers´ food. I think a hungry man eats everything.


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## Viet

Interesting week for diplomacy: nearly all major powers from China to America to Russia and now India: India’s national security adviser Ajit Kumar Doval visits Vietnam. he offers to assist Vietnam in defense and security and military technology.





he makes an interesting remark: _India will be always a companion with Vietnam in any circumstances, and a stable, developed and prosperous Vietnam is of India’s interest._


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## Viet

russian PM Medvedev in interview with vietnamese media.


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## Viet

guided missile destroyers USS _Fitzgerald_ (DDG-62) and USS _Fort Worth_ (LCS-3)
and interesting: the commander of both warships is colonel Le Ba Hung, a vietnamese-american.


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## Viet

Hmmm..._I was unware that such a bank as *Vietnam-Russia Joint Venture Bank (VRB)* exists. the talks with russia´s PM were concentrated on economy, less defence._

_



_


Vietnam-Russia bank seeks role in nuclear, defence deals
Reuters
Updated : 04/08/2015 08:53 GMT + 7






*The Vietnam-Russia Joint Venture Bank (VRB) is to seek approval from the Vietnamese and Russian governments to play a role in government projects in the fields of nuclear power and defence among others, Vietnamese lender BIDV said on Tuesday.*

The VRB is a 50/50 joint venture established in 2006 between BIDV, or the Bank for Investment and Development of Vietnam, and Russia's second-biggest bank, VTB.

Hanoi-based VRB will provide banking services for the projects, said BIDV, the country's second-biggest partly private lender in terms of assets, in a statement after it signed a memorandum with VTB.

The statement gave no details on the projects.

Russia has been helping Vietnam train staff for the country's first nuclear power plant, with construction slated to start in 2020. National defence deals include Vietnam's purchase of Russian-built jet fighters and submarines.


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## Viet

Vietnam-US joint military exercise 2015

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## Viet

*U.S. Navy secretary visits Vietnam to boost ties: Vietnamese official*

English.news.cn 2015-04-08 23:18:14 

 










HANOI, April 8 (Xinhua) -- United States Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus is paying a visit to Vietnam to boost ties between the two countries' armed forces and navies, said a Vietnamese official here on Wednesday.

Mabus is the highest-ranking official in the U.S. Navy ever to tour the country.

Do Ba Ty, chief of the General Staff of the People's Army of Vietnam met with Mabus in Vietnam's capital Hanoi on Wednesday. The U.S. secretary of the Navy's visit will contribute to strengthening ties between the U.S. and Vietnam's armed forces and navies, Ty said.

Ty added that Vietnam and the United States have enjoyed new developments in defense relations, including those in naval cooperation over the past years. The visiting U.S. official said the two countries have great potential in deepening naval cooperation, according to Vietnam's state-run news agency VNA.

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## Viet

also this week, Vietnam communist party chief Nguyen Phu Trong in Beijing. 4 other members of the poliburo accompany him. this visit may be the turning point for Vietnam political landscape. After his visit and talks in China, he will head to America. success or failure will determine the times to come. besides typical diplomatic rhetorics bla bla bla, I haven´t heard any substance.

Pretty much expected. Why should China compromise? they have the upper hand in every aspect, from economy, army and number of people. the strong dictates the rule of the game.

but anyway, I think one thing we can now learn from China: female guard of honor. the girls look beautiful in army uniform  


 
young vietnamese in the great hall

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> also this week, Vietnam communist party chief Nguyen Phu Trong in Beijing. 4 other members of the poliburo accompany him. this visit may be the turning point for Vietnam political landscape. After his visit and talks in China, he will head to America. success or failure will determine the times to come. besides typical diplomatic rhetorics bla bla bla, I haven´t heard any substance.
> 
> Pretty much expected. Why should China compromise? they have the upper hand in every aspect, from economy, army and number of people. the strong dictates the rule of the game.
> 
> but anyway, I think one thing we can now learn from China: female guard of honor. the girls look beautiful in army uniform
> 
> 
> 
> young vietnamese in the great hall



VietNam never expected any substance from this meeting anyway. Once the VCP received an invitation from the CCP for a visit, the VCP immediately issued out this statement a few weeks ago:

Vietnam Protests China Construction on Disputed South China Sea Island - Frontier Markets News - Emerging & Growth Markets - WSJ



> “Vietnam strongly protests and demands that China respect Vietnam’s sovereignty and immediately stop its illegal activities in the area of Truong Sa archipelago and that China strictly adhere to the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea,” Vietnam foreign ministry’s vice spokeswoman, Pham Thu Hang, said in a statement.



As expected, the CCP spoke some warm reconciliatory words and promises to the VCP about solving all dispute peacefully. 

The VCP then ask, "so are you going to stop the land reclamation work in the spratly?" The CCP reply will obviously be "No!" 

So all the warm words and promises made by the CCP will be made meaningless and fake. The VCP already knew this meeting will have no substance from the beginning.

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> VietNam never expected any substance from this meeting anyway. Once the VCP received an invitation from the CCP for a visit, the VCP immediately issued out this statement a few weeks ago:
> 
> Vietnam Protests China Construction on Disputed South China Sea Island - Frontier Markets News - Emerging & Growth Markets - WSJ
> 
> 
> 
> As expected, the CCP spoke some warm reconciliatory words and promises to the VCP about solving all dispute peacefully.
> 
> The VCP then ask, "so are you going to stop the land reclamation work in the spratly?" The CCP reply will obviously be "No!"
> 
> So all the warm words and promises made by the CCP will be made meaningless and fake. The VCP already knew this meeting will have no substance from the beginning.


yes, the chinese government even does not bother taking back the travel warning to vietnam. I hope at least the party chief Trong enjoys some good chinese foods. he retires next year anyway. what we need after him is a strong man, like the current prime minister Dung.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> yes, the chinese government even does not bother taking back the travel warning to vietnam. I hope at least the party chief Trong enjoys some good chinese foods. he retires next year anyway. what we need after him is a strong man, like the current prime minister Dung.



It was a very good timing for Xi to invite the VCP to visit and speak some warm reconciliatory words. So when GS Trong later visit the US to negotiate, he can tell the US that the VCP is still welcomed to join the CCP camp again if the US negotiate too hard. It is a bargaining chip. This is more valuable than some good Chinese food.

Hey @Carlosa, did you check out the LCS when it docked in Da Nang?

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> Vietnam-US joint military exercise 2015





Nice!


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Hey @Carlosa, did you check out the LCS when it docked in Da Nang?



Not possible, its in the naval base, can't get in there.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Not possible, its in the naval base, can't get in there.



It's time for you to find a way to get a press pass. Or bribe your way into getting one lol.

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> It's time for you to find a way to get a press pass. Or bribe your way into getting one lol.


I don´t think it is possible. I tried to take a look at the stationed warships at the bay at my last visit to cam ranh. the guard was not amused. they showed me virtually the middle finger

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> It's time for you to find a way to get a press pass. Or bribe your way into getting one lol.



I wish I could.



Viet said:


> I don´t think it is possible. I tried to take a look at the stationed warships at the bay at my last visit to cam ranh. the guard was not amused. they showed me virtually the middle finger



Yeah, I tried that last year at the time of the visit of the US ships with the same results that you had.

I did get to see and chat with some of the sailors later as they were strolling and shopping in the city.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> I don´t think it is possible. I tried to take a look at the stationed warships at the bay at my last visit to cam ranh. the guard was not amused. they showed me virtually the middle finger



You should have told them that you are an Elite member of PDF, with one positive rating and one trophy point. 



Carlosa said:


> I wish I could.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I tried that last year at the time of the visit of the US ships with the same results that you had.
> 
> I did get to see and chat with some of the sailors later as they were strolling and shopping in the city.



Maybe you can put on a fake US Navy uniform and charge right through the security gate.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Maybe you can put on a fake US Navy uniform and charge right through the security gate.



Will you come to visit me in jail?  Vietnamese jails don't have a great reputation for comfort.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Will you come to visit me in jail?  Vietnamese jails don't have a great reputation for comfort.



I'll send a Chinese guy to tell the prison guards that you are an intelligence officer from China and that they should release you because VN and CN are traditional friends that should not imprison each other's citizen. 

OK now I'm off to sleep.

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Will you come to visit me in jail?  Vietnamese jails don't have a great reputation for comfort.



lol


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> I'll send a Chinese guy to tell the prison guards that you are an intelligence officer from China and that they should release you because VN and CN are traditional friends that should not imprison each other's citizen.
> 
> OK now I'm off to sleep.



Oh, I feel much better now.  Good night.

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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> also this week, Vietnam communist party chief Nguyen Phu Trong in Beijing. 4 other members of the poliburo accompany him. this visit may be the turning point for Vietnam political landscape. After his visit and talks in China, he will head to America. success or failure will determine the times to come. besides typical diplomatic rhetorics bla bla bla, I haven´t heard any substance.
> 
> Pretty much expected. Why should China compromise? they have the upper hand in every aspect, from economy, army and number of people. the strong dictates the rule of the game.
> 
> but anyway, I think one thing we can now learn from China: female guard of honor. the girls look beautiful in army uniform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> young vietnamese in the great hall



Damn Girls are super hot


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## Viet

totally 10 more SU-30s to come this year
Báo Nga: Việt Nam nhận 10 tiêm kích Su-30MK2 trong năm 2015 | soha.vn


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## Aqsuperman

Returning from a not-so-good university exam..........caught this guy by accident :v


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Returning from a not-so-good university exam..........caught this guy by accident :v


hardly recognised anything. can you enlarge and post it again?


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> hardly recognised anything. can you enlarge and post it again?


 other views

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## Viet

will Russia put a serious offer on the table to lure Vietnam? How about arming us with destroyers and nuclear submarines with strategic missiles?

a voice from Russia:


*Vietnam's balancing act: Can Russia adapt to change?*
April 10, 2015 Anton Tsvetov, special to RBTH

*It’s time to consider if there is anything that Russia can offer Vietnam that others can’t.*







_Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev reviews the guard of honor with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Tan Dung during a welcoming ceremony at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi Apr. 6._


On April 6-7, 2015, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev visited to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (SRV). Russian public opinion is accustomed to perceiving Vietnam as a traditional friend and partner, preferring to ignore potential disagreements that arise between the two countries. Meanwhile, *Vietnam’s current foreign policy is complex and full of contradictions*, and Moscow will have to adapt to this.

To survive politically the ruling Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) has to demonstrate its ability to protect the country against external and internal threats and to improve the living standards of the country’s 90 million population. Economy is the top priority now, as Vietnam has only recently entered the group of middle-income countries and still faces various growth pains and challenges. In 2015-2016, GDP is expected to grow by just over 6 per cent, which is quite good by the standards of developed countries, but falls short of an economic miracle. Therefore, today’s priority for the export-oriented Vietnamese economy is to gain access to technology, investment and markets.

In terms of foreign policy, this implies the most pragmatic development of a wide network of partnerships. The Vietnamese leadership lost any trust in bloc solidarity since the Border War with China in 1979, and prefers to put its eggs in different baskets, trying to maintain good relations with China, the US and Russia, as well as India, Europe and other countries in East and Southeast Asia.

The close relationship that Vietnam enjoys with China is second to none. The reasons for this are quite obvious, namely civilizational commonality, the similarity of political systems and the tyranny of geography. The largest trading partner of Vietnam now accounts for about a quarter of the latter’s total imports. At the same time, huge trade deficit with China is sparking profound concern among Vietnamese experts, and this is not even the darkest spot on the surface of China-Vietnam ties.

The greatest difficulties are being caused by the territorial disputes over the Spratly and Paracel Islands in the South China Sea. And if conflicts between just Beijing and Hanoi are resolved with certain ease, the involvement of other Southeast Asian countries in the disputes and close attention of the international community fuels the debate, making a settlement nowhere to be seen. *As it is often the case, external actors are siding with the weaker Vietnam. *This only frustrates China, which feels like a besieged fortress and back-pedals with great reluctance.

Developing the relationship between Vietnam and China has never been easy. Of the dozen liberation wars that Vietnam has fought in its long history, only two were not against China. This nourishes nationalist sentiments in Vietnamese society and a fair part of the internal opposition favors a more hard-line attitude towards its northern neighbor. In May 2014, when China brought an oil rig within the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of Vietnam, rioters across the country burned and looted scores Chinese-run factories, many of which in fact turned out to be Taiwanese or South Korean.

Yet, a split between China and Vietnam would be too far-fetched. Common political culture and spiritual affinity between the elites drive close interparty relations. It is even assumed that no major foreign policy decision is taken by Hanoi without consultations with Beijing. Anyway, it is the contacts between the CPC and the CPV that ensure the most expeditious settlement of conflicts. Closed-door talks on oil rig issue were held between party officials, although this incurred the displeasure of many members of the Vietnamese Communist Party, who insist on taking a tougher stance towards China.

This love/hate approach naturally prompts the Vietnamese leadership to diversify its foreign contacts, playing on the US’ desire to strengthen alliances in Asia.* Vietnam is a key element of the rebalance and Washington’s major “new friend.” *After normalizing relations in 1995, the two countries have developed their relationship by leaps and bounds, especially in the economic sphere. Today the US market is the main direction of the Vietnamese exports (about 18 per cent of the total). What is equally important, Vietnam is ready to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the main economic tool for strengthening US influence in the region.

In 2014, the rapprochement between Washington and Hanoi was given two strong impetuses. Firstly, the ban on the supply of lethal weapons to Vietnam has been partially lifted. So far, supplies have been limited to arms and military equipment designed to “strengthen maritime security,” but the Vietnamese insist on the full lifting of the embargo, saying that without it the normalization of relations cannot be considered complete. Secondly, the so-called 123 Agreement on nuclear cooperation with Vietnam has been signed and approved by the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, which allows American companies to supply equipment for nuclear power plants to the latter. This is especially important due to the growing demand for electricity in Vietnam.

Relations between the two countries can hardly be called frictionless. The observance of human rights remains the main stumbling block. The United States criticizes the Vietnamese government for infringing upon the rights of the political opposition, religious minorities, as well as of workers and press. Indeed, working with the communist government is not an easy job for the Americans, but the CPV has its own serious concerns that Washington’s rapprochement has a long-term goal of eroding the party’s monopoly on power.

However, as of today, the US is ready to turn a blind eye to the fact that Vietnam does not meet the high standards of democracy and human rights. A stable political regime coupled with strong state control over the army is a valuable feature for an continental partner of the US in Southeast Asia. Recognizing its value for Washington, Hanoi expects to strengthen its own security, safeguard access of Vietnamese goods to the US market, and attract new technologies and investments.

Though betting on close ties with China and the United States, the Vietnamese leadership still does not want to fall victim to another bipolar confrontation. And this is why Vietnam still needs Russia. Relations between Moscow and Hanoi today have three very promising directions.

The first is *arms trade *base on extensive Soviet military aid to Vietnam, still considered a priority. The contract for the supply of six Kilo class diesel-electric submarines to Vietnam can probably be regarded as the most important achievement in this sphere. Submarines have been regarded the coolest bling in military fashion in Southeast Asia, as many countries see them as an effective way to counter Chinese assertiveness at sea.

Second,* the energy sector *is important in several respects. When it comes to this area, Vietsovpetro is the omnipresent success story. This is a joint venture for offshore oil exploration in Southern Vietnam that has successfully operated since the 1980s. However, there are a number of more recent projects, including those in Russia (which may come as a surprise to many Russians), namely in the Nenets Autonomous Region and in the Orenburg Region. The Ninh Thuận 1 Nuclear Power Plant project, launched in Vietnam by Atomstroyexport, is considered the gem of Russian-Vietnamese cooperation in the energy sector.

The third facet is the *Eurasian Economic Union-Vietnam* free trade area (FTA), the agreement on which is expected to be signed in 2015. This is one of the biggest multilateral projects for both countries. It is planned to zero out import duties on most goods and thereby contribute to the growth of bilateral trade.

But there are difficulties too. The movement of goods, which is a recognized indicator of the level of the development of bilateral relations, has indeed intensified. The parties note ‘with satisfaction’ that the commodities trade has reached $4 billion. The thing is that this figure makes up only 1 per cent of total Vietnamese turnover and about 0.5 per cent of the Russian stat. By comparison, the Vietnamese volume of trade with the United States amounts to $36 billion, and with China – to $58 billion. The creation of the EEU – Vietnam free trade area will certainly generate some growth, but it is doubtful that the effect will be significant enough.

Russia faces competition even in the above-mentioned areas of traditional cooperation between Moscow and Hanoi. South Korea, Japan, and soon the United States are Russia’s competitors in the nuclear power industry. In oil production, India is close on the heels. What will happen with the Russian export of military equipment if and when the US completely lifts completely the ban on the supply of combat arms to Vietnam? The sensational winning of the bid last year for the construction of an assault rifle assembly shop by the Israeli “Galil” in Vietnam, which managed to leave behind the darling of the developing countries Kalashnikov, is a bite of the reality sandwich.

The time has come to consider if there is anything that Russia can offer Vietnam that other countries cannot. 

What goods can help increase trade turnover? Will the Russian military-industrial complex maintain the price-quality balance at an attractive level for Hanoi? Does Russia have enough resources at the moment to participate in major investment projects in Vietnam? Can Moscow benefit from the growing economy of its Asian partner? These questions aren’t going anywhere.

Russia is important for Vietnam as a major outside power with which its leadership enjoys a strong partnership. However, the strength of these relations has almost never been tested in recent history. In March, the media reported that State Department had asked Hanoi to prevent the use of Cam Ranh airbaase by Russian aircraft refueling nuclear bombers. The Vietnamese side confined its reaction to a rather short and maild comment to the Russian Sputnik News website. Surely, such a leak to the media is a rather insensitive gesture on the part of the State Department, but the question has been asked: Is Vietnam ready to suffer political costs for close cooperation with Russia amidst the latter’s worsening relations with the West?

Similar collisions may arise within the Russia – Vietnam – China triangle. Both countries are strategic partners of Russia, but what do we do done if there is a conflict between them? And if we have to choose, let's be honest: we know what Moscow’s choice will be. The rich history of relations and the development of political and military dialogue are part of a solid foundation of bilateral relations. But if we can’t build a solid house on this foundation, we will still have nowhere to live.

_Anton Tsvetov is Media and Government Relations Manager at the Russian International Affairs Council (RIAC). He tweets on Asian affairs and Russian foreign policy at @antsvetov. The views expressed here are the author’s own and do not reflect those of RIAC._

_First published in Russian at Lenta.ru_

- Vietnam's balancing act: Can Russia adapt to change? | Russia Beyond The Headlines)

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> will Russia put a serious offer on the table to lure Vietnam? How about arming us with destroyers and nuclear submarines with strategic missiles?



Regrettably for the Viet bro, Russia does not make destroyers at this point (they do have one on the drawing board for next decade though), the biggest combat surface ship they make is the 4500 ton frigate Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov. The first one of the class is doing the sea trials right now. I would not mind a few of those for Vietnam, very powerful weapon systems:
16 Yakhont and 32 Shtil / Redut Poliment for air defense. The super structure of the ship is all composite and the gun is a mighty 130 mm.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Regrettably for the Viet bro, Russia does not make destroyers at this point (they do have one on the drawing board for next decade though), the biggest combat surface ship they make is the 4500 ton frigate Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov. The first one of the class is doing the sea trials right now. I would not mind a few of those for Vietnam, very powerful weapon systems:
> 16 Yakhont and 32 Shtil / Redut Poliment for air defense. The super structure of the ship is all composite and the gun is a mighty 130 mm.
> 
> View attachment 213716
> View attachment 213717
> View attachment 213718
> View attachment 213719
> View attachment 213720
> View attachment 213721
> View attachment 213722
> View attachment 213723


yeah, what we need is mighty warships equipped with mighty weapons. the russian PM has offered supplying both technologies and training enable us to locally produce of* Russian platforms*.

Platforms can be here everything 

Medvedev seeks stronger defence trade in visit to Vietnam - IHS Jane's 360

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## Viet

a very interesting speech was delivered by the US defence minister Ash Carter recently:

*"Only the relationship with Vietnam has delivered significant strategic benefits to the United States in the past six years."*

Asia Unbound » Little Mention of Southeast Asia in Secretary of Defense’s Rebalance Speech

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> a very interesting speech was delivered by the US defence minister Ash Carter recently:
> 
> *"Only the relationship with Vietnam has delivered significant strategic benefits to the United States in the past six years."*
> 
> Asia Unbound » Little Mention of Southeast Asia in Secretary of Defense’s Rebalance Speech
> 
> 
> View attachment 213775



What I understand from reading the article is that that phrase is from the author of the article, not from Mr. Carter. Its his interpretation of the situation.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> What I understand from reading the article is that that phrase is from the author of the article, not from Mr. Carter. Its his interpretation of the situation.


damn, you got me. yes, you are right.

dat viet news: Military Factory A31 recently produces for the first time ever calibration component TPKU-2 for artilleries, such as ZSU-23-4 and 37mm AAA guns.

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## Viet

soha.vn: introduction of french anti aircraft missile system *SAMP/T (Aster-30)*
specs: range 5 -120km, max. flight altitude 30km, max. speed 1.400 m/s, acceleration 60G, inertial guidance with up-link, active RF seeker, warhead with directed fragmentation.
*



















*

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## Aqsuperman

fully automatic S-60 57mm  still run on rice though :v

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## Viet

Next step in Vietnam-India military cooperation: information sharing between both countries domestic Secret Services.


Bolstering Act East Policy: India to train Vietnamese intelligence forces : Nagaland Post

NEW DELHI, APR 6 (AGENCIES)
Published on 6 Apr. 2015 11:12 PM IST






_PM Nguyen Tan Dung and Indian National Security Adviser Ajit Kumar Doval, Ha Noi, April 3, 2015 - Photo: VGP_

Adding teeth to its Act East Policy, India could train intelligence officials from Vietnam besides providing more training slots to the Navy and Air Force personnel from the Southeast Asian country.

India may also provide military and defence technology, besides providing support for effectively countering cybercrimes as requested by Vietnam, according to officials privy to National Security Adviser Ajit Doval’s discussions with the country’s top leadership on Friday last week. Doval met Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, and Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, in Hanoi as part of his trip to Bangkok and Hanoi to firm up strategic partnerships.

*The request for training of Vietnamese intelligence officials and increasing training slots for its Naval and Air Force personnel came from PM Dung*, officials said. The NSA is understood to have expressed India’s willingness to assist Vietnam’s military and security apparatus.

In an indirect reference to China, Doval stated that India was against any unilateral action to change status quo in the seas of the region and called for freedom of navigation, officials said.

The NSA reviewed the situation in the South China Sea region where China is building artificial islands. India has oil blocks in the region offered by Vietnam and the region is key to its Asia-Pacific outreach. Vietnam has been welcoming Indian naval ships in its region. Countries in the region are seeking bigger Indian presence amid China’s growing assertiveness and territorial claims.

India is also worried China’s phenomenal rise and its growing presence in the Indian Ocean Region. India has been asking for freedom of navigation in seas and recently the NSA expressed worries over Chinese military bases in the region.

India has robust defence ties with Vietnam. Bilateral military cooperation includes sale of military equipment, sharing of intelligence, joint naval exercises and training in counterinsurgency and jungle warfare. When Dung visited India last October, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had said in a press statement, *“Our defence cooperation with Vietnam is among our most important ones. India remains committed to the modernisation of Vietnam’s defence and security forces."*

This will include expansion of our training programme, which is already very substantial, joint-exercises and cooperation in defence equipment.” The PM had added that India would quickly operationalise the $100 million Line of Credit that will enable Vietnam to acquire naval vessels from India.


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## Viet

*SECNAV Visits Sailors During NEA Vietnam*
Navy.mil - View Image

Story Number: NNS150409-04
Release Date: 4/9/2015 9:22:00 AM

By Lt. Lauryn Dempsey, Destroyer Squadron 7 Public Affairs












_DA NANG, Vietnam (April 9, 2015) Senior Chief Boatswain's Mate Brandi Spencer, from San Diego, pipes Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) Ray Mabus aboard the littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) during Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) Vietnam 2015. In its sixth year, NEA Vietnam is designed to foster mutual understanding, build confidence in the maritime domain and strengthen relationships between the U.S. Navy, Vietnam People's Navy and the local community. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Conor Minto/Release)_


DA NANG, Vietnam (NNS) -- Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) *Ray Mabus* visited Sailors participating in the sixth annual Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) Vietnam 2015, April 9.

Mabus addressed the crews of the littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) and Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62), as well as staff from Destroyer Squadron 7 (DESRON 7).

Mabus highlighted the importance of exchanges like NEA Vietnam in fostering relationships and strengthening maritime partnerships.

"As part of the Navy's forward deployed naval force, the Sailors of Fort Worth and Fitzgerald should be proud of the difference they are making during exchanges like NEA Vietnam," said Mabus.

"*It's through these face-to-face engagements that we are able to deepen our relationship with Vietnam." *

U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius also accompanied SECNAV in Da Nang.

*"I am immensely proud of how far our two navies have come since 2003, when we conducted our very first U.S. Navy Goodwill and Friendship port call in Vietnam," said Osius. "It took vision, hard work, and most of all, trust, to get us to this point. If we have learned anything over the past 20 years, it's that nothing is impossible." *

During his remarks, SECNAV underscored the first-ever LCS visit to Vietnam, as well as the opportunity both navies will have to practice Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES) later this week.

"LCS is now a fixture in 7th Fleet," said Mabus. "The opportunity for Fort Worth and Fitzgerald to get underway together with the Vietnam People's Navy will build confidence and ensure safe communication when our ships meet again on the seas."

NEA Vietnam began in 2010 and focuses on non-combatant events and skills exchanges in military medicine, search and rescue, and maritime security. Subject-matter expert exchanges place an emphasis on maritime domain awareness, shipboard damage control, submarine rescue, band concerts, community service events and team sports. A brief at-sea phase to practice CUES and ship handling with the Vietnam People's Navy is the highlight of the annual exchange.

In addition to Fitzgerald and Fort Worth, U.S. units participating in NEA Vietnam include personnel from CTF 73, DESRON 7, Undersea Rescue Activity San Diego, Explosive Ordnance Disposal Mobile Unit (EODMU) 5, and the U.S. 7th Fleet Band "Orient Express."

Occurring during the 20th anniversary of the normalization of diplomatic relations between the United States and Vietnam, these activities were designed to foster mutual understanding, build confidence in the maritime domain and develop relationships between the people and navies of both nations.


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## Viet

_Captain Le Ba Hung, deputy commander of Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 7. when the republic of south vietnam collapsed, his family left Saigon. he was 5 years old back then.
I hope, next time we will see the full squadron of 12 destroyers for beach parties and "other" activities._

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## Carlosa

Interesting hint from Comcom:

** Rumor has it that a certain country in South East Asia would have 10 Gepard class frigate with different configuration, including at least 4 locally-built vessels. These frigates, along with the SIGMA class frigates, will form the backbone of their modern fleet, making it a green-water navy.

@Viet @Yorozuya What do you make of this? Still more Gepards despite of their weaknesses, I hope they will at least be the better models, but I don't think this is the best way to go anyway.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Interesting hint from Comcom:
> 
> ** Rumor has it that a certain country in South East Asia would have 10 Gepard class frigate with different configuration, including at least 4 locally-built vessels. These frigates, along with the SIGMA class frigates, will form the backbone of their modern fleet, making it a green-water navy.
> 
> @Viet @Yorozuya What do you make of this? Still more Gepards despite of their weaknesses, I hope they will at least be the better models, but I don't think this is the best way to go anyway.


that is very nice news if true. I hoped for a while that we can build the gepards at home.

well, bro, despite all of its weaknesses, the gepard will be the next one we build after Molnyia. the first gepard pair is just the beginning for uns buiding the next generation of frigates. the two we received are dangerously too weak. if facing chinese frigates and destroyers, they have little chance to survive a battle. from the news, I understand the next four gepards will get at least twice in terms of fire power. yes, you are right. the current configuration does not fit our needs. if we build 4 at home, we need an improved gepard, bigger in size, more modern and having advanced weaponry. such as yakhonts and aster-30.

from this news, the next gepards will be powered by german MAN diesel engines. and everyone in the industry knows the company MAN is famous for building of modern and advanced ship engines. why our gepard needs a more powerful engine, if is not increased in size?

Cặp Gepard mới dùng động cơ Đức, tăng khả năng chống ngầm - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

here one of the largest MAN ship diesel engines in the world: 7,36 million Nm at 97 cylces a minute. if our gepard is powered by a such monster, well not necessary this one, it will have a monster speed, too.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> that is very nice news if true. I hoped for a while that we can build the gepards at home.
> 
> well, bro, despite all of its weaknesses, the gepard will be the next one we build after Molnyia. the first gepard pair is just the beginning for uns buiding the next generation of frigates. the two we received are dangerously too weak. if facing chinese frigates and destroyers, they have little chance to survive a battle. from the news, I understand the next four gepards will get at least twice in terms of fire power. yes, you are right. the current configuration does not fit our needs. if we build 4 at home, we need an improved gepard, bigger in size, more modern and having advanced weaponry. such as yakhonts and aster-30.
> 
> from this news, the next gepards will be powered by german MAN diesel engines. and everyone in the industry knows the company MAN is famous for building of modern and advanced ship engines. why our gepard needs a more powerful engine, if is not increased in size?
> 
> Cặp Gepard mới dùng động cơ Đức, tăng khả năng chống ngầm - DVO - Báo Đất Việt
> 
> here one of the largest MAN ship diesel engines in the world: 7,36 million Nm at 97 cylces a minute. if our gepard is powered by a such monster, well not necessary this one, it will have a monster speed, too.



As I understand, the reason for the new German propulsion system is in order to get Ukraine out of the way and the German unit should be better anyway; I don't think the size will be bigger.

How do you get to the conclusion that the next batch is at least twice in terms of fire power? As far as I know, the only difference is the ASW package. There was earlier speculation about better weapon systems but they recently showed models of the ship and everything looks the same as in the first batch.

It surely is nice to get more ships, but I rather prefer less ships, but more powerful, like the Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov that at $500 million is a much better deal than the Gepard at $300 million. I think VN its getting too many ships that are too weak and they will not make enough of a difference. I rather spend the money into more subs, those do make a difference.

Anyway, it is what it is.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> As I understand, the reason for the new German propulsion system is in order to get Ukraine out of the way and the German unit should be better anyway; I don't think the size will be bigger.
> 
> How do you get to the conclusion that the next batch is at least twice in terms of fire power? As far as I know, the only difference is the ASW package. There was earlier speculation about better weapon systems but they recently showed models of the ship and everything looks the same as in the first batch.
> 
> It surely is nice to get more ships, but I rather prefer less ships, but more powerful, like the Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov that at $500 million is a much better deal than the Gepard at $300 million. I think VN its getting too many ships that are too weak and they will not make enough of a difference. I rather spend the money into more subs, those do make a difference.
> 
> Anyway, it is what it is.


we paid $300m for the first pair, and $600m for the second pair. I expect the latter is twice more powerful than the first. industrial and buyer logic  there are many the unknowns what we will get. the navy does not disclose much of info yet.

I think we need both for our navy: more bigger surface ships with more firepower onboard. 4,000 tonnes and more. aka improved gepard and sigma destroyer class. you are sceptical, but I am a fan of heavy warships. I expect we will order new subs when the last kilo arrives.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> we paid $300m for the first pair, and $600m for the second pair. I expect the latter is twice more powerful than the first. industrial and buyer logic  there are many the unknowns what we will get. the navy does not disclose much of info yet.
> 
> I think we need both for our navy: more bigger surface ships with more firepower onboard. 4,000 tonnes and more. aka improved gepard and sigma destroyer class. you are sceptical, but I am a fan of heavy warships. I expect we will order new subs when the last kilo arrives.



The first batch was $350 million for 2, so its 175 million a piece, add the ASW package and a few other secondary things like the German engines and the increase for inflation since we are talking about a 6 year difference (plus bigger red envelopes ) and you have a price of $300 million a piece. I really wish that it would have a better weapon systems, but I don't see it.

Between Gepards (and even standard Sigmas) and heavy frigates, I can definitely tell you that I would prefer half the quantity in heavy frigates and there is still leftover money ($500 million vs $300 million). 5 frigates of the Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov at $500 million (I posted many pics of those the other day) will have much more firepower than 10 Gepards.

I'm skeptical of large destroyers. Heavy frigates and small, fast ships with heavy anti ship power is what I like (like the Molniya).

The Palma system is the main weakness in the Gepards and considering that in case of actual war, the SCS will most likely became a very dense missile environment, I think that's a fatal weakness.

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## Carlosa

Bad news:

TASS: Russia - China becomes first foreign buyer of Russian S-400 air defense system — media

Russia
April 13 






MOSCOW, April 13. /TASS/. China has purchased S-400 missile defense systems from Russia, director general of Russia's major arms exporting company Rosoborobexport Anatoly Isaykin has told the Kommersant daily in an interview.

*Isaykin refused to disclose terms of contract but confirmed that China had become the first buyer of the cutting-edge air defense system. He noted that it emphasizes the strategic nature of Russian-Chinese relations.*

The systems, which are capable of launching up to *72 missiles and engaging up to 36 targets simultaneously, entered service in 2007 to replace the S-300 systems.*S-400 Triumf is designed to shield* from air strikes, strategic, cruise, tactical and operating tactical ballistic missiles and medium-range ballistic missiles.*

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The first batch was $350 million for 2, so its 175 million a piece, add the ASW package and a few other secondary things like the German engines and the increase for inflation since we are talking about a 6 year difference (plus bigger red envelopes ) and you have a price of $300 million a piece. I really wish that it would have a better weapon systems, but I don't see it.
> 
> Between Gepards (and even standard Sigmas) and heavy frigates, I can definitely tell you that I would prefer half the quantity in heavy frigates and there is still leftover money ($500 million vs $300 million). 5 frigates of the Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov at $500 million (I posted many pics of those the other day) will have much more firepower than 10 Gepards.
> 
> I'm skeptical of large destroyers. Heavy frigates and small, fast ships with heavy anti ship power is what I like (like the Molniya).
> 
> The Palma system is the main weakness in the Gepards and considering that in case of actual war, the SCS will most likely became a very dense missile environment, I think that's a fatal weakness.


I have no clue why the navy does not opt for Admiral Gorshkov frigate. my best guess is Russian shipyards are not the most productive ones in the world. they need ages to complete surface warships. our next gepards come with 1 year delay, not 2016-2017 but 2017-2018. If we build the ships at home, we could do faster.



Carlosa said:


> Bad news:
> 
> TASS: Russia - China becomes first foreign buyer of Russian S-400 air defense system — media
> 
> Russia
> April 13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOSCOW, April 13. /TASS/. China has purchased S-400 missile defense systems from Russia, director general of Russia's major arms exporting company Rosoborobexport Anatoly Isaykin has told the Kommersant daily in an interview.
> 
> *Isaykin refused to disclose terms of contract but confirmed that China had become the first buyer of the cutting-edge air defense system. He noted that it emphasizes the strategic nature of Russian-Chinese relations.*
> 
> The systems, which are capable of launching up to *72 missiles and engaging up to 36 targets simultaneously, entered service in 2007 to replace the S-300 systems.*S-400 Triumf is designed to shield* from air strikes, strategic, cruise, tactical and operating tactical ballistic missiles and medium-range ballistic missiles.*


the russians are a bit desperate right now. they need money, investment and friendship from china.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Interesting hint from Comcom:
> 
> ** Rumor has it that a certain country in South East Asia would have 10 Gepard class frigate with different configuration, including at least 4 locally-built vessels. These frigates, along with the SIGMA class frigates, will form the backbone of their modern fleet, making it a green-water navy.
> 
> @Viet @Yorozuya What do you make of this? Still more Gepards despite of their weaknesses, I hope they will at least be the better models, but I don't think this is the best way to go anyway.



Make sense, 2 under construction, 2 on order and they probably want TOT for another 4 (and hopefully it's not just assembling kits). But I never liked the Gepard. The first 2 is okay as training boats and something for port visit. But for the price and size, they are really underwhelming. I like the project 20385 much better. And it is a true multipurpose corvette with AShM, ASW and a decent SAM all on one hull. Plus a Gepard hull is not that much cheaper than a Tigr anyway. Too late now.



Carlosa said:


> Bad news:
> 
> TASS: Russia - China becomes first foreign buyer of Russian S-400 air defense system — media
> 
> Russia
> April 13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOSCOW, April 13. /TASS/. China has purchased S-400 missile defense systems from Russia, director general of Russia's major arms exporting company Rosoborobexport Anatoly Isaykin has told the Kommersant daily in an interview.
> 
> *Isaykin refused to disclose terms of contract but confirmed that China had become the first buyer of the cutting-edge air defense system. He noted that it emphasizes the strategic nature of Russian-Chinese relations.*
> 
> The systems, which are capable of launching up to *72 missiles and engaging up to 36 targets simultaneously, entered service in 2007 to replace the S-300 systems.*S-400 Triumf is designed to shield* from air strikes, strategic, cruise, tactical and operating tactical ballistic missiles and medium-range ballistic missiles.*





Viet said:


> the russians are a bit desperate right now. they need money, investment and friendship from china.



I'm not surprised by this sale agreement. You are right @Viet, Russia needs to look after its own interest first. That's why I've told the other guys that Russia is no longer a true ally or friend of VN, like what those members think. A true friend or ally would never make deals with your enemy where those deals would put you at a great disadvantage. Russia is just a business partner. And their interest is in their business. If China has money, they will sell good weapons to China, if VN can pay for it, VN can buy them too, simple as that. 

Where is @Aqsuperman? What happen to your dream about putting scuds on ships? I hope those old scuds can deal with S-400.

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## Aqsuperman

oh right...................you want a under-1000km tactical ballistic missles to strike S-400 which most likely locate in Beijing from the VN home water ............sometime i wonder is your brain work correctly ? my dream and the S-400 are 2 entirely different things , or in Vietnamese : 2 CHUYỆN LIÊN QUAN VÃI


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> oh right...................you want a under-1000km tactical ballistic missles to strike S-400 which most likely locate in Beijing from the VN home water ............sometime i wonder is your brain work correctly ? my dream and the S-400 are 2 entirely different things , or in Vietnamese : 2 CHUYỆN LIÊN QUAN VÃI



Brother be cool !!!! let's stay calm and not use personal insults. We are all brothers here.

Who said the PLA cannot have the choice of deploying a S-400 battery at the VietNam boarder region? Or on Hainan? Or on the Paracels? Or even on the artificial islands in the SCS?

You are just making up your own excuses to think to yourself that Russia's military relationship with China will not affect VietNam's own security. Are you an Ah Q that won't dare face reality and just live with your Ah Q imagination? If Russia sells to China 10,000 stealth fighters, maybe you will also say it is only for fighting Japan and will not affect VN. I really hope that you don't have the Ah Q disease, brother.

The main thing I was saying is that Russia is willing to sell advanced military equipments to the PLA that will put VN at a disadvantage (and Russia has the rights to do so, they're not breaking any law). China can not only use these advanced assets like the S-400, but they can also learn from it to help further develop their own military industries.

So please don't be like an Ah Q and dream about old weapons like the scuds that can be intercepted by S-400 or China's own SAM system that can be upgraded with knowledge from the S-400. At the same time stop living in your Ah Q imagination that Russia is still a reliable friend to VN when Russia played a role in assisting China's military industry. Let's just learn to face reality my friend.


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## Viet

courtesy to cnleio. comparison between the coast guards in east asia. interesting: the number of ships of the wannabe leader of asean and maritime power Indonesia is very low.

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## Aqsuperman

wow wow wow what the heck is that ? Making up excuse ?
First , my Scud idea is simply my dream to have a moving launcher on the sea that can be used as a mobile long-range deterrent against inland threat and 1 more time ITS COMPLETLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE S400 , you sure that all Scud will be intercepted by Chinese SAM ? let me remind you that even the Patriot once failed , and even the mighty Iron dome cant stop all the rocket from Gaza Strip , and they are some of the finest system around , not some rip-off crap or monkey model export ( that is if Russia stupid enough to give China something good knowing that they will copy it and later will sell it on the market , competing with Russia product ) .
Second , in the history of mankind , if you have a brand new and good defensive system , you will install it in or around the capital first , from the time of MIM-23 Hawk , S-25 to this very day of S-400 , Patriot etc . If you dont defense you capitol well then what is the puurpose of guarding another place with it while the center of you country may fall under attack ?.
Third hah i say the millitary ties to VN and China are both important to Rusia and why ? China is a big partner to Russia but they also have a long history of frictions , 1962 Border Skirmish , training and supplying Russia and Russia allies enemy back from the Afganistan to this very day , copying russia tech illegally and use it to compete against Russia product , etc and you still think Russia consider them the better allies ? Russis is not as dump as you think , dont presume that everything you know are correct because that will be last thing to happen  and Vietnam is important to Rusia because of ? Around this part of the world who Russia can trust to use as a refueling base for their tanker which is use to support long-range bomber ? ASEAN is full of China and American allies , of course Rusia can sell them weapon if they want but for this level of task who can be more trustworthy than VN ?
Fourth ho ho ho really ? Russia sell weapon to China and that automaticly make them less than a good friend to VN ? wow i guess America is nothing but a crappy partner as well in the eyes of Japan and Korea , surely both would say "WHY THE HELL THAT AMERICA SELLING SOME GOOD STUFF TO THAT GUY AND NOT US ? F***K AMERICA " VN have alot of "keyboard heroes" just like you , and of course i wonder is their brain work correctly as well ?  
Fifth i live in most reallistic life that you can think of and that how my brain work too , just because you dont have the same opinion as mine doesnt mean im in a dream and you in the real world , in fact that may have been the otherway around
Sixth i never even want to talk to you after our last conversation , you tag me in with a mocking entence about 2 entirely different things ( My dream for the Scud on the sea and the S400) so i just reply in the way that you deserve it , dont like my way of talking ? then stop talking to me the way you just did above . And about personal insult wow i just wonder is your brain work correctly , not call you a dog cat mice dumpshit coward hypocrite etc , and then you just presume me to be a Ah Q ? what the hell is Ah Q ? you mean AQ chính truyện ? the main character in that story is more like you than like me because he always blabbering about what he know and picking up on people that dont want to see nonetheless talk to him


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## Viet

hey apsuperman and yorozuya, it is best if you both and of course we here all don´t resort to any insulting in the first place. as far as I know, any idea and opinion is allowed on the forum, even how absurd they are.

....other news...
Admiral Pham Hoai Nam, Chief of Staff of the Navy and other members of the General Staff made a visit to Song Tử Tây (Spratlys).


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> courtesy to cnleio. comparison between the coast guards in east asia. interesting: the number of ships of the wannabe leader of asean and maritime power Indonesia is very low.


Wow, seem like corruption in Indo-Malays r even far worse than in VN, that's why their armed forces dont have enogh ships to protect their nations


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## Aqsuperman

Viva_Viet said:


> Wow, seem like corruption in Indo-Malays r even far worse than in VN, that's why their armed forces dont have enogh ships to protect their nations


Technically speaking , except Philipine (which has a weak navy and lack of maritime asssets) , Malay and Indo both got a good navy and airforce , probably they intend to invest more in the military than its civillian counterpart on the sea

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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> wow wow wow what the heck is that ? Making up excuse ?
> First , my Scud idea is simply my dream to have a moving launcher on the sea that can be used as a mobile long-range deterrent against inland threat and 1 more time ITS COMPLETLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE S400 , you sure that all Scud will be intercepted by Chinese SAM ? let me remind you that even the Patriot once failed , and even the mighty Iron dome cant stop all the rocket from Gaza Strip , and they are some of the finest system around , not some rip-off crap or monkey model export ( that is if Russia stupid enough to give China something good knowing that they will copy it and later will sell it on the market , competing with Russia product ) .
> Second , in the history of mankind , if you have a brand new and good defensive system , you will install it in or around the capital first , from the time of MIM-23 Hawk , S-25 to this very day of S-400 , Patriot etc . If you dont defense you capitol well then what is the puurpose of guarding another place with it while the center of you country may fall under attack ?.
> Third hah i say the millitary ties to VN and China are both important to Rusia and why ? China is a big partner to Russia but they also have a long history of frictions , 1962 Border Skirmish , training and supplying Russia and Russia allies enemy back from the Afganistan to this very day , copying russia tech illegally and use it to compete against Russia product , etc and you still think Russia consider them the better allies ? Russis is not as dump as you think , dont presume that everything you know are correct because that will be last thing to happen  and Vietnam is important to Rusia because of ? Around this part of the world who Russia can trust to use as a refueling base for their tanker which is use to support long-range bomber ? ASEAN is full of China and American allies , of course Rusia can sell them weapon if they want but for this level of task who can be more trustworthy than VN ?
> Fourth ho ho ho really ? Russia sell weapon to China and that automaticly make them less than a good friend to VN ? wow i guess America is nothing but a crappy partner as well in the eyes of Japan and Korea , surely both would say "WHY THE HELL THAT AMERICA SELLING SOME GOOD STUFF TO THAT GUY AND NOT US ? F***K AMERICA " VN have alot of "keyboard heroes" just like you , and of course i wonder is their brain work correctly as well ?
> Fifth i live in most reallistic life that you can think of and that how my brain work too , just because you dont have the same opinion as mine doesnt mean im in a dream and you in the real world , in fact that may have been the otherway around
> Sixth i never even want to talk to you after our last conversation , you tag me in with a mocking entence about 2 entirely different things ( My dream for the Scud on the sea and the S400) so i just reply in the way that you deserve it , dont like my way of talking ? then stop talking to me the way you just did above . And about personal insult wow i just wonder is your brain work correctly , not call you a dog cat mice dumpshit coward hypocrite etc , and then you just presume me to be a Ah Q ? what the hell is Ah Q ? you mean AQ chính truyện ? the main character in that story is more like you than like me because he always blabbering about what he know and picking up on people that dont want to see nonetheless talk to him



My friend, let me say again, lets calm down. We are brothers okay? Also please don't type a wall of text it's hard to read.

Okay now let me explain:






I just asked a simple question. Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage? Yes or No?

99% people will say "No, a true friend would not do that", 1% will be silly and say "Yes, he is still a true friend".

So I ask you, has Russia ever made deals that puts VietNam at a great disadvantage? Russia did in the past and continue to do so today (S-400). I used your scud dream as an example, even though your dream is not gonna come true anyway. But here's the example, you want to use scuds to attack China, but Russia has provided China with a large number of air defence systems that puts you at a disadvantage. I'm talking about Tor, S-300, BUK and the latest S-400. Not only can China directly use them, China can reverse engineer them and use the knowledge to develop their own system. So there, Russia has made deals that puts VietNam at a great disadvantage. And I haven't mentioned the other platforms like Su-27/30 which helped China develop the J-11, and then there frigates, subs, helicopters, etc.

The only replies you've given is non-related to my question, like:

- Soviets had frictions with China back in 1960s, etc.
- Russia needs VN to bomber refuel.
-America don't always sell their best weapons to its allies.
-etc.

But what does this all have to do with my question, "would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage?" and the second question is, "have Russia made such deals?"

The answer to this second question is "Yes". And that's a fact, not just my opinion.

On the other hand, you keep talking about random things that does not relate to my questions, and keep denying and ignoring my question and it's factual answer. That is what Ah Q often do in his story and why I've put that label on you.

So I'll ask, for the last time, the very 2 simple questions:

1. Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage?

2. Has Russia ever made deals with VietNam's enemy (China) that would put VietNam at a great disadvantage?

These 2 questions are very simple and it should be a yes or no answers.

(P.S. I'm not bashing Russia. I think Russia has every right to make business deals with whoever she want and is justified in putting her interest first.)


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## Nike

Viva_Viet said:


> Wow, seem like corruption in Indo-Malays r even far worse than in VN, that's why their armed forces dont have enogh ships to protect their nations



first those pics doesn't represent the strength of the Navy from Malaysia-Indo-Vietnam and China. That's the total component surveillance vessels from their respective Coast Guard units

Malaysian Navy right now invest heavily in Surface warfare vessels with their commitment for 6 Frigate Gowind Class and 6 missile corvette from Daewoo Shipyard. Aside from their current assets in which strong enough to me
2 Lekiu Class
6 Kedah Class OPV
4 Laksamana Class Corvette
2 Kasturi Class
6 Gowind Class Frigate (on progress)


Indonesia Navy battle strength is quite modest with
16 Parchim Class ASW corvette
6 Van Speijk Class Frigate 
4 Sigma Class Corvette
3 Bung Tomo Class Light Frigate (ex Nahkoda Ragam class)
3 Fatahillah Class ASW corvette
2 Sigma Class Frigate (on progress in PT PAL shipyard)



Aqsuperman said:


> Technically speaking , except Philipine (which has a weak navy and lack of maritime asssets) , Malay and Indo both got a good navy and airforce , probably they intend to invest more in the military than its civillian counterpart on the sea



Indonesia in this current terms will invest heavily for Air Force, the Navy will be neglected for a while. After all Air Superiority is a must to maintain and support the balance of strength for your Navy. Malaysia for a while will focusing themselves for Navy especially for surface combatant ships.

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## Aqsuperman

Meh im really really really fed up with you and your unbelievable ignorance and lacks of knowledge . So lets mark this the last time I reply to you , next time dont even tag me in any of your post because i cant handle that magnitude of blabbering 

Now first lets see about "Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage ?" now lets see the great disadvantage here : Russia sell China plenty of weapons , nobody including me say otherwise but hey as youself speaking this is business , the same kind of business that USA have with Japan and South Korea , USA sell a lot of military equipments (very very high lvl stuff from Aegis system to LCS for attacking island , and lately F-35 , surely these types pose "great disadvantage" enough ? ) to both of these countries and i can assure you that they hate each other to the grave , both in history and islands conflict, yet a survey conduct by PewResearch Center in 2014 that see 66% of Japanese and 82% of South Korean consider USA a "good friend" ,guess i dont have to tell you about they goverment view about USA right , Other example including Egypt and Israel that buying tons of good stuff from America ? so why then ? why Japan and South Korea ,Israel and Egypt clearly know that USA selling high tech weapons and equipments to the other ones yet they still hold USA in high regard ? Because they are "silly" ? the answer to this question is "Depend" , no such thing as simply yes or no in international relationships , take Russia and China into view and you will see why that no way in hell those S-400 and all other equipments sold by Russia to China before can have a a more or less ability like the Russian ones , I provide Russia-China friction for you to see that why Russia do that , Russia is not dump to see his equipments reserved and later compete againts his equipments on the market , since the J-11 rip-off (Google it clearly and you will see how Russia always remember about this deal in later contract with China , from a license assemble to illegally copy ) And info about VN base is to show you about how important VN are to Russia in this region 

About "Has Russia ever made deals with VietNam's enemy (China) that would put VietNam at a great disadvantage " well without Russian weapons , China has been a bigger country , possess bigger manpower bigger natural resources practically everything about China put us in a disadvantage , Of course they have more money than us so they can purchase more weapons , If it not Russia there will be other to sell China things he want . So what ? Business and Friendship can always co-exist , if you say otherwise please check back the war history of the world , you will see this type of relation is everywhere from the Nicaragua Civil war to the Iran-Iraq war , if you denie them then you are the person in the dream world 

1 more things , all those "random things that does not relate to my questions, and keep denying and ignoring my question and it's factual answer" , those are for your previous post about me , re-read it clearly because really my patient for typing has reach it end , start with the capital part . 

Hope we will never talk again


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> Meh im really really really fed up with you and your unbelievable ignorance and lacks of knowledge . So lets mark this the last time I reply to you , next time dont even tag me in any of your post because i cant handle that magnitude of blabbering
> 
> Now first lets see about "Would a true friend or ally make deals with your enemy that would put you at a great disadvantage ?" now lets see the great disadvantage here : Russia sell China plenty of weapons , nobody including me say otherwise but hey as youself speaking this is business , the same kind of business that USA have with Japan and South Korea , USA sell a lot of military equipments (very very high lvl stuff from Aegis system to LCS for attacking island , and lately F-35 , surely these types pose "great disadvantage" enough ? ) to both of these countries and i can assure you that they hate each other to the grave , both in history and islands conflict, yet a survey conduct by PewResearch Center in 2014 that see 66% of Japanese and 82% of South Korean consider USA a "good friend" ,guess i dont have to tell you about they goverment view about USA right , Other example including Egypt and Israel that buying tons of good stuff from America ? so why then ? why Japan and South Korea ,Israel and Egypt clearly know that USA selling high tech weapons and equipments to the other ones yet they still hold USA in high regard ? Because they are "silly" ? the answer to this question is "Depend" , no such thing as simply yes or no in international relationships , take Russia and China into view and you will see why that no way in hell those S-400 and all other equipments sold by Russia to China before can have a a more or less ability like the Russian ones , I provide Russia-China friction for you to see that why Russia do that , Russia is not dump to see his equipments reserved and later compete againts his equipments on the market , since the J-11 rip-off (Google it clearly and you will see how Russia always remember about this deal in later contract with China , from a license assemble to illegally copy ) And info about VN base is to show you about how important VN are to Russia in this region



So your answer is "it depends", but you did not explain what it depends on. You mentioned that the weapons supplied to China is not as good as the ones in Russia's possession, but this is irrelevant. Whatever was given to China, is a threat to VN. You think all those Su-27/30/J-11/subs, etc. are not a big issue for VN?



> About "Has Russia ever made deals with VietNam's enemy (China) that would put VietNam at a great disadvantage " well without Russian weapons , China has been a bigger country , possess bigger manpower bigger natural resources practically everything about China put us in a disadvantage , Of course they have more money than us so they can purchase more weapons , If it not Russia there will be other to sell China things he want . So what ? Business and Friendship can always co-exist , if you say otherwise please check back the war history of the world , you will see this type of relation is everywhere from the Nicaragua Civil war to the Iran-Iraq war , if you denie them then you are the person in the dream world
> 
> 1 more things , all those "random things that does not relate to my questions, and keep denying and ignoring my question and it's factual answer" , those are for your previous post about me , re-read it clearly because really my patient for typing has reach it end , start with the capital part .



You are wrong, most western arms supplier, until this day, has a lethal arms embargo on China.

And even if China can somehow manage to get arms from another source, does that make it OK for Russia to arm China who can use those weapons against VN?

If I wanted to shoot you, is it OK for your friend to sell a gun to me? Are you going to say it is OK because I can just buy from someone else if your friend doesn't sell it to me? You are living in denial if you still think he is still your good friend!



> Hope we will never talk again



No, talk to me bro.


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## Viet

@aq and @yoro, I have to laugh. you both behave like like boys 

Navy High Command of Military Zone 3

On April 16, destroyers KIRISAME and ASAYUKI with 500 crew members onboard stop at Danang port for a 4 day visit. led by Colonel Sugimoto Masaharu, Commander of the JMSDF’s frigate fleet #12.












another nice pic: destroyer Kirisame (rear) at a joint US-JP exercise in the West Pacific

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> @aq and @yoro, I have to laugh. you both behave like like boys
> 
> Navy High Command of Military Zone 3
> 
> nice ships from Japan: On April 16, destroyers KIRISAME and ASAYUKI with 500 crew members onboard stop at Danang port for a 4 day visit. led by Colonel Sugimoto Masaharu, Commander of the JMSDF’s frigate fleet #12.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> another nice pic: destroyer Kirisame (rear) at a joint US-JP exercise in the West Pacific





Cool

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## Viet

relationship to the *Philippines* has improved a lot recently.

April 13: Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Defense Minister and his Philippines counterpart Honorio S. Azcueta co-hosted the first Vietnam- Philippines defense policy dialogue in Hanoi. First result is launching a hotline for fishing activities.









Military Capabilities
*USN conducts first CUES activity with Vietnamese navy ships*
*
Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
13 April 2015






The US Navy's USS Fort Worth (LCS 3) is seen here operating in Indonesian waters during the search for crashed AirAsia Flight QZ8501. Source: US Navy

The US Navy (USN) has conducted its first Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES) activity with vessels from the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy, a USN spokesperson told _IHS Jane's_ on 13 April.

The exercise was held with the USN's Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer, *USS Fitzgerald* (DDG 62), the Freedom-class Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) *USS Fort Worth* (LCS 3), and a number of PAVN ships.

CUES is a naval code of conduct that was ratified unanimously by 25 Asia-Pacific countries at the 14th Western Pacific Naval Symposium (WPNS) in 2014.

The protocol consists of standardised phrases for naval vessels and aircraft to use in unexpected encounters at sea and aims to prevent tensions from escalating into conflict, especially in contested maritime territories.

"As CUES was only adopted last spring, this was the first time our ships had the opportunity to practise CUES together," said Lieutenant Lauryn Dempsey, a public affairs officer with the USN's Destroyer Squadron 7.

"During the shore-based exchanges last week, sailors from both navies conducted classroom training and discussion about CUES, and then practised it while underway together on [10 April]", she added, in reference to the sixth annual naval engagement (NEA) activity between the USN and PAVN personnel.

The NEA ran from 6-10 April and focused on non-combatant events and skills exchanges in military medicine, search and rescue, and maritime security.

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## liubang

Will Vietnam get even more submarines in the near future? Is 6 enough? What would be an adequate amount for vietnam? How far in the future do you guys think we would be capable of having an aircraft carrier like Thailand.


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## luoyue

liubang said:


> Will Vietnam get even more submarines in the near future? Is 6 enough? What would be an adequate amount for vietnam? How far in the future do you guys think we would be capable of having an aircraft carrier like Thailand.



In short term, I don't think we need purchase the carrier like Thailand. we have focus on submarines and frigates first.


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## Carlosa

liubang said:


> Will Vietnam get even more submarines in the near future? Is 6 enough? What would be an adequate amount for vietnam? How far in the future do you guys think we would be capable of having an aircraft carrier like Thailand.



I'm pretty sure there will be more subs coming because Vietnam is negotiating with the Italian company that makes the S1000 sub. Vietnam has also expressed an interest on the Amur subs of Russia.

I would say that Vietnam needs not less than 18 subs.

Why would Vietnam need an small carrier like the one from Thailand which can only operate the F-35 which I don't think the US will ever sell to Vietnam? And anyway, what's the purpose for such a carrier and how is it going to manage to survive in case of war? As an ASW carrier with helicopters, it is actually overkill, no need for that. A carrier like that is very expensive to operate, as Thailand found out the hard way.

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## Aqsuperman

a couple more Akula attack subs wont hurt

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## Nike

VPAF just lost two of their Su-22M4 because of crash in South China Sea

the cause is bad weather. The pilots can bail out, but still missing due to bad weather impending the search and rescue effort

Wish the best for the Pilots

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> VPAF just lost two of their Su-22M4 because of crash in South China Sea
> 
> the cause is bad weather. The pilots can bail out, but still missing due to bad weather impending the search and rescue effort
> 
> Wish the best for the Pilots



*Vietnam's military aircraft crash into the sea after head-on collision, 2 pilots missing*
By *Thanh Nien Staff*, Thanh Nien News





A file photo of a Su-22M4. Photo: Tan Tu

Two military aircraft allegedly collided with each other during an aerobatic training session off the coast of the central province of Binh Thuan on Thursday, with the fate of the two pilots still unknown.
The Russian-made fighter aircraft Su-22M4 were believed to crash into the East Sea about six nautical miles from Phu Quy Island.
Air controllers lost contact with the pilots at around 10:40 a.m.
So far rescuers have found three oil barrels and pieces of a parachute. Traces of oil were also spotted near the accident site.

The two pilots reportedly parachuted into the sea, according to media reports.
Initial information is that the 1976-produced aircraft were part of a team tasked with protecting the Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands.
The search and rescue mission is going on.

On March 26, a military helicopter, also produced during Soviet ear, crashed when it was about to land on Phu Quy Island, but all men all board survived.
Two previous crashes involved a Russian Mi-171 and a US-built UH-1, and killed 24 military personnel in total.



Aqsuperman said:


> a couple more Akula attack subs wont hurt



They would certainly not hurt at all. India is leasing one and they are now going to lease a second one.

An upgraded Akula is one of the best subs around, without any doubt.

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## Aqsuperman

and about the Su-22 , i got info from a source say that those Su-22 pilot are having a sea-attack training include a sharp dive and quickly exit after dropping their loads , one of the Su-22 may have (still not know is this a human error or the weather ) crash into his wingman , parachutes have been recoverd so lets hope that we find them before East Sea claim them first............best hope for our pilot...........

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> and about the Su-22 , i got info from a source say that those Su-22 pilot are having a sea-attack training include a sharp dive and quickly exit after dropping their loads , one of the Su-22 may have (still not know is this a human error or the weather ) crash into his wingman , parachutes have been recoverd so lets hope that we find them before East Sea claim them first............best hope for our pilot...........



Yes, I hope so.


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## Viet

Vietnamplus: pilots not found yet. search and rescue mission suspended because of darkness and bad weather.


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## kaku1

Yorozuya said:


> So I ask you, has Russia ever made deals that puts VietNam at a great disadvantage? Russia did in the past and continue to do so today (S-400)





Carlosa said:


> Bad news:
> 
> TASS: Russia - China becomes first foreign buyer of Russian S-400 air defense system — media
> 
> Russia
> April 13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOSCOW, April 13. /TASS/. China has purchased S-400 missile defense systems from Russia, director general of Russia's major arms exporting company Rosoborobexport Anatoly Isaykin has told the Kommersant daily in an interview.
> 
> *Isaykin refused to disclose terms of contract but confirmed that China had become the first buyer of the cutting-edge air defense system. He noted that it emphasizes the strategic nature of Russian-Chinese relations.*
> 
> The systems, which are capable of launching up to *72 missiles and engaging up to 36 targets simultaneously, entered service in 2007 to replace the S-300 systems.*S-400 Triumf is designed to shield* from air strikes, strategic, cruise, tactical and operating tactical ballistic missiles and medium-range ballistic missiles.*


I wonder, why overhyped S-300 and S-400 is never considered by India? Thats interesting.

In 90s India bought some S-300, but never again shown interest in this system again. Or that system was never offered to India again, but thats highly unlikely? @Carlosa @Viet Anything you know about it. Instead India chose a very different path for SAM.

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## Aqsuperman

meh i i just purely hate this crap , 3 helicopters and 2 jets in just 2 years , 25 dead 2 wounded and 2 currently missing ..............................whats wrong with our airforce ? .......................


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> meh i i just purely hate this crap , 3 helicopters and 2 jets in just 2 years , 25 dead 2 wounded and 2 currently missing ..............................whats wrong with our airforce ? .......................


the airforce still has too much scrap in the inventory. poor training may be blamed, but even with new jets, accidents can happen.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the airforce still has too much scrap in the inventory. poor training may be blamed, but even with new jets, accidents can happen.



Too much money is going into ships that have little chance of success in case of conflict and not enough money is going into aircraft, even that those are the ones that have good chances of success. With the money going into 2 Gepards, you can get 12 SU-30s.

The air force has being getting too little investment. Too much money is also going into the army now even that it should be a lower priority than the air force.



kaku1 said:


> I wonder, why overhyped S-300 and S-400 is never considered by India? Thats interesting.
> 
> In 90s India bought some S-300, but never again shown interest in this system again. Or that system was never offered to India again, but thats highly unlikely? @Carlosa @Viet Anything you know about it. Instead India chose a very different path for SAM.



I don't know why India is not interested in S-300 / 400. The S-400 does have good features and its great in terms of range at 400 km. That being said, India's choice of Barak 8 / Spyder is very good, but I'm not sure what India uses for longer range air defense, Akash maybe?
Was India just trying to develop its own system in that category?

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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Too much money is going into ships that have little chance of success in case of conflict and not enough money is going into aircraft, even that those are the ones that have good chances of success. With the money going into 2 Gepards, you can get 12 SU-30s.
> 
> The air force has being getting too little investment.


Actually I think 6 sub is quite enough for 10 year from now, that why the next step Vietnam will focus on frigate and aircraft, and more and more Su will come



Carlosa said:


> I don't know why India is not interested in S-300 / 400. The S-400 does have good features and its great in terms of range at 400 km. That being said, India's choice of Barak 8 / Spyder is very good, but I'm not sure what India uses for longer range air defense, Akash maybe?
> Was India just trying to develop its own system in that category?


Akash seem to be medium range air defence system, not long range
They now co-operation with Israel to develop them, not just buy only, you can search about some project such as Barak-8 and MRSAM


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> I don't know why India is not interested in S-300 / 400. The S-400 does have good features and its great in terms of range at 400 km. That being said, India's choice of Barak 8 / Spyder is very good, but I'm not sure what India uses for longer range air defense, Akash maybe?
> Was India just trying to develop its own system in that category?



Actually S-300, S-400 and S-500 are all meant for high altitude bogies. Like bombers and SRBM.

For that India developing BMD, good example is AAD with range of 200 KM.
Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But they are not meant for low skimming cruise missile, or fighter coming with terrain hugging for SEAD ops.
The S-300, S-400 and S-500 always fail in this environment. These systems are meant for protecting large cities not military installations. The best solution still is actve seeker missile capable of sustaining high g,



Thao Nguyen said:


> Akash seem to be medium range air defence system, not long range
> They now co-operation with Israel to develop them, not just buy only, you can search about some project such as Barak-8 and MRSAM


No system in India available to compare S-300, S-400 or S-500. And even India not interested to deploy them.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Actually S-300, S-400 and S-500 are all meant for high altitude bogies. Like bombers and SRBM.
> 
> For that India developing BMD, good example is AAD with range of 200 KM.
> Indian Ballistic Missile Defence Programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> But they are not meant for low skimming cruise missile, or fighter coming with terrain hugging for SEAD ops.
> The S-300, S-400 and S-500 always fail in this environment. These systems are meant for protecting large cities not military installations. The best solution still is actve seeker missile capable of sustaining high g,



The S-300 / 400 family has a 40 km range missile (9M96E missile) designed for intercepting low flying missiles and that same missile is now starting to get used in Russian ships as part of the Redut / Polyment system as an anti missile system to target sea skimming anti ship missiles. How good that missile is I don't know, but its being given priority over the Shtil system, so It should be ok. 

That being said, Barak 8 its definitely a better system. I would say that it is the very best system.



kaku1 said:


> The S-300, S-400 and S-500 always fail in this environment. These systems are meant for protecting large cities not military installations. The best solution still is actve seeker missile capable of sustaining high g.



I could not agree more, and what active seeker missile has the highest G numbers?
Barak 8 at 80 G's and 500 meters minimum range, nothing else comes close to that.
Aster 30 can go up to 60 G's and 4 km minimum range.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> The S-300 / 400 family has a 40 km range missile (9M96E missile) designed for intercepting low flying missiles and that same missile is now starting to get used in Russian ships as part of the Redut / Polyment system as an anti missile system to target sea skimming anti ship missiles. How good that missile is I don't know, but its being given priority over the Shtil system, so It should be ok.
> 
> That being said, Barak 8 its definitely a better system. I would say that it is the very best system.



Yes I know about 9M96E, actually even that is not capable to sustain g like Barak-8 and Aster. 

When a modern fighter coming with terrain hugging with a capability to jam, even active radar homing are very vulnerable of jamming.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Yes I know about 9M96E, actually even that is not capable to sustain g like Barak-8 and Aster.
> 
> When a modern fighter coming with terrain hugging with a capability to jam, even active radar homing are very vulnerable of jamming.



Yes, Barak 8 and Aster are the best in that category.

MICA missiles can handle just 50 Gs.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Yes, Barak 8 and Aster are the best in that category.
> 
> Do you know how many G's can MICA missiles handle?



Thats a simple concept of calculating g,always worked for me.  
the SAM which developed from BVR has capability to sustain 30-50g. 

And the SAM which developed from short range AAM, they capable to sustain 40-80g.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Thats a simple concept of calculating g,always worked for me.
> the SAM which developed from BVR has capability to sustain 30-50g.
> 
> And the SAM which developed from short range AAM, they capable to sustain 40-80g.



That's a good system. I just remembered now that MICA can handle the full G's (50) only during the first 7 km of trajectory when it has a lot of fuel inside. After that it loses G capability and it goes all the way down to 30 Gs. Not good.



kaku1 said:


> Yes I know about 9M96E, actually even that is not capable to sustain g like Barak-8 and Aster.
> 
> When a modern fighter coming with terrain hugging with a capability to jam, even active radar homing are very vulnerable of jamming.



I just checked the G factor for the 9M96E missile and its actually not bad, 20 to 60 Gs depending on altitude.
60 Gs at sea level
20 Gs at 30,000 meter altitude

That missile its actually quite good. It has an active seeker and mid course data link update.

From Air power Australia website:

*Fakel 9M96E and 9M96E2 Surface to Air Missiles*

The third and fourth missiles are in effect equivalents to the ERINT/PAC-3 interceptor missile recently introduced to supplement the MIM-104 in Patriot batteries, but designed to also engage low and medium altitude aerial targets. These are the 9M96E and 9M96E2, largely identical with the latter version fitted with a larger powerplant. Fakel claim the 96M6E has a range of 21.6 nautical miles, and the 9M96E2 64.8 nautical miles, with altitude capabilities from 15 ft AGL up to 66 kft and 100 kft respectively.

The 9M96 missiles are “hittiles” designed for direct impact, and *use canards and thrusters to achieve extremely high G and angular rate capability throughout the engagement envelope*. An inertial package is used with a datalink from the 30N6E2/92N6E radar for midcourse guidance, with a radar homing seeker of an undisclosed type. The small 53 lb (24 kg) blast fragmentation warhead is designed to produce an controlled fragment pattern, using multiple initiators to shape the detonation wave through the explosive. A smart radio fuse is used to control the warhead timing and pattern. It is in effect a steerable shaped charge.

Both missiles use nose mounted canard control surfaces to effect a high turn rate at altitudes where air density permits the generation of high control forces. Fakel designers Bolotov and Mizrokhi cite 60G capability at sea level, and 20G at 30,000 metres, the latter using thruster control. This is required to effect a “hit-to-kill” endgame against ballistic and high speed aerial targets.

While the larger 9M96E2 is an almost direct equivalent in size and performance to the ERINT/PAC-3 round, its control arrangement is fundamentally different, both aerodynamically and in thruster arrangement. The 9M96E/E2 radial thruster package is located at the fuselage CoG, to generate a direct force to turn the missile, rather than producing a pitch/yaw moment to use body lift to turn, as is the case in the ERINT/PAC-3 design. The sleeve mounted tail surfaces are mechanically decoupled from the fuselage in roll, to minimise thruster induced rolling moments.

The smaller size of these weapons permits four to be loaded into the volume of a single 48N6E/5V55K/R launch tube container - a form fit four tube launcher container is used. A single 5P85S/T TEL can thus deploy up to 16 of these missiles, or mixes of 3 x 48N6 / 4 x 9M96E/E2, 2 x 48N6 / 8 x 9M96E/E2 or 1 x 48N6 / 12 x 9M96E/E2. The stated aim of this approach was to permit repeated launches against saturation attacks with precision guided munitions - in effect trading 9M96 rounds for incoming guided weapons. Fakel claim a single shot kill probability of 70% against a Harpoon class missile, and 90% against a manned aircraft.

The addition of the 9M96E/E2 missiles, which amount to a combined ABM and point defence weapon designs, is part of a broader Russian strategy of deploying air defence weapons capable of defeating PGM attacks, including the AGM-88 HARM family, and follow-on defence suppression weapons, the latter types intended to disable the S-400 battery acquisition and engagement radars. The advantage in using the 9M96E/E2 for this purpose is that it avoids the additional technical and operational complexity of directing other “counter-PGM” point defence weapons such as the Tor M1/M2, Tunguska M and Pantsir S/S1 series.
Some sources have credited the 9M96E/9M96E2 missiles to the S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2 Favorit, which appears to have been the demonstration platform for prototypes of these missiles. Integration of these missiles on either of these systems will not present any challenges, due to backward compatibility in TELs and the use of a datalink supported active radar terminal seeker. To date there have been no disclosures on domestic production or export sales of the 9M96 series. Russia media reports in 2010 indicated that production may soon commence for use on S-400 systems, using a new four chamber launcher/container design with an identical form factor to the standard 48N6 design.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> That's a good system. I just remembered now that MICA can handle the full G's (50) only during the first 7 km of trajectory when it has a lot of fuel inside. After that it loses G capability and it goes all the way down to 30 Gs. Not good.
> 
> 
> 
> I just checked the G factor for the 9M96E missile and its actually not bad, 20 to 60 Gs depending on altitude.
> 60 Gs at sea level
> 20 Gs at 30,000 meter altitude
> 
> That missile its actually quite good. It has an active seeker and mid course data link update.
> 
> From Air power Australia website:
> 
> *Fakel 9M96E and 9M96E2 Surface to Air Missiles*
> 
> The third and fourth missiles are in effect equivalents to the ERINT/PAC-3 interceptor missile recently introduced to supplement the MIM-104 in Patriot batteries, but designed to also engage low and medium altitude aerial targets. These are the 9M96E and 9M96E2, largely identical with the latter version fitted with a larger powerplant. Fakel claim the 96M6E has a range of 21.6 nautical miles, and the 9M96E2 64.8 nautical miles, with altitude capabilities from 15 ft AGL up to 66 kft and 100 kft respectively.
> 
> The 9M96 missiles are “hittiles” designed for direct impact, and use canards and thrusters to achieve extremely high G and angular rate capability throughout the engagement envelope. An inertial package is used with a datalink from the 30N6E2/92N6E radar for midcourse guidance, with a radar homing seeker of an undisclosed type. The small 53 lb (24 kg) blast fragmentation warhead is designed to produce an controlled fragment pattern, using multiple initiators to shape the detonation wave through the explosive. A smart radio fuse is used to control the warhead timing and pattern. It is in effect a steerable shaped charge.
> 
> Both missiles use nose mounted canard control surfaces to effect a high turn rate at altitudes where air density permits the generation of high control forces. Fakel designers Bolotov and Mizrokhi cite 60G capability at sea level, and 20G at 30,000 metres, the latter using thruster control. This is required to effect a “hit-to-kill” endgame against ballistic and high speed aerial targets.
> 
> While the larger 9M96E2 is an almost direct equivalent in size and performance to the ERINT/PAC-3 round, its control arrangement is fundamentally different, both aerodynamically and in thruster arrangement. The 9M96E/E2 radial thruster package is located at the fuselage CoG, to generate a direct force to turn the missile, rather than producing a pitch/yaw moment to use body lift to turn, as is the case in the ERINT/PAC-3 design. The sleeve mounted tail surfaces are mechanically decoupled from the fuselage in roll, to minimise thruster induced rolling moments.
> 
> The smaller size of these weapons permits four to be loaded into the volume of a single 48N6E/5V55K/R launch tube container - a form fit four tube launcher container is used. A single 5P85S/T TEL can thus deploy up to 16 of these missiles, or mixes of 3 x 48N6 / 4 x 9M96E/E2, 2 x 48N6 / 8 x 9M96E/E2 or 1 x 48N6 / 12 x 9M96E/E2. The stated aim of this approach was to permit repeated launches against saturation attacks with precision guided munitions - in effect trading 9M96 rounds for incoming guided weapons. Fakel claim a single shot kill probability of 70% against a Harpoon class missile, and 90% against a manned aircraft.
> 
> The addition of the 9M96E/E2 missiles, which amount to a combined ABM and point defence weapon designs, is part of a broader Russian strategy of deploying air defence weapons capable of defeating PGM attacks, including the AGM-88 HARM family, and follow-on defence suppression weapons, the latter types intended to disable the S-400 battery acquisition and engagement radars. The advantage in using the 9M96E/E2 for this purpose is that it avoids the additional technical and operational complexity of directing other “counter-PGM” point defence weapons such as the Tor M1/M2, Tunguska M and Pantsir S/S1 series.
> Some sources have credited the 9M96E/9M96E2 missiles to the S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2 Favorit, which appears to have been the demonstration platform for prototypes of these missiles. Integration of these missiles on either of these systems will not present any challenges, due to backward compatibility in TELs and the use of a datalink supported active radar terminal seeker. To date there have been no disclosures on domestic production or export sales of the 9M96 series. Russia media reports in 2010 indicated that production may soon commence for use on S-400 systems, using a new four chamber launcher/container design with an identical form factor to the standard 48N6 design.


The service ceiling is 16 Km of Barak-8, this missile never meant to target bombers or do a job of BMD.

But actually the second pulse motor and ARH activate at terminal phase, this missile is even capable to take high g even at high altitude.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> The service ceiling is 16 Km of Barak-8, this missile never meant to target bombers or do a job of BMD.
> 
> But actually the second pulse motor and ARS activate at terminal phase, this missile is even capable to take high g even at high altitude.



Yes, Barak needs to be combined with a missile designed for long range and high altitude.
That's where the other missiles of the S-400 really excel.

Imagine a battery that combines the long range missiles of the S-400 and Barak 8 for shorter range. That would be a winner.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Yes, Barak needs to be combined with a missile designed for long range and high altitude.
> That's where the other missiles of the S-400 really excel.
> 
> Imagine a battery that combines the long range missiles of the S-400 and Barak 8 for shorter range. That would be a winner.


Yes AAD backed with green pine. And Barak-8. Deadly?

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Yes AAD backed with green pine. And Barak-8. Deadly?



Yes, that would do it. The Israelis now also have an upgraded version of the Green Pine with much greater range.

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## Carlosa

@Nihonjin1051 One of the Japanese destroyers visiting Danang.

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## Aqsuperman

Say hello to VN new Chemical uniform , brand new gas mask as well

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## Viet

more of japanese *destroyers *JS Kirisame and JS Asayuki















Colonel Likhachev Andrey Petrovich, the new* russian defence attache *to vietnam.





*Vietnam, China ink border guard cooperation pact* at a meeting between Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh and Chinese Public Security Minister Guo Shengkun.

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## Viet

rescuers found one of the crashed su-22 planes. it lies 50m under the water.

Rơi 2 máy bay Su-22: Sáng nay tiếp tục tìm kiếm phi công | soha.vn



























liubang said:


> Will Vietnam get even more submarines in the near future? Is 6 enough? What would be an adequate amount for vietnam? How far in the future do you guys think we would be capable of having an aircraft carrier like Thailand.


6 is a good start, but 12 or more is better. Let hope we will build the next 6 kilo in our shipyards.
aircraft carrier? Lol I think it is unrealistic right now.

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## Viet

China Public Security Minister Guo Shengkun in Hanoi, Vietnam, April 16.

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## Aqsuperman

Thailand aircraft carrier is really just like a helipad nowaday , we dont need it and the price for operating ones is really high , even that aircraft carrier only operate a day per month and serve as a tourist attraction

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## liubang

Was very surprise to learn that Thailand had an aircraft carrier. Should have done some google because then I would find out how small/old/and obsolete it is. 

Within half a year, I probably will be in a submarine or aircraft carrier.


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## Bornubus

Vietnam Army visits India





Vietnam Marines


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## BoQ77

DA NANG, Vietnam (April 7, 2015) Lt. Cmdr. Greg Adams, assigned to Commander, Task Force 73, speaks to members of the Vietnamese media about the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES) joint training with members of the Vietnam People's Navy that took place aboard the guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) as part of Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) Vietnam 2015. NEA Vietnam is designed to foster mutual understanding, build confidence in the maritime domain and strengthen relationships between the U.S. Navy, Vietnam People's Navy and the local community. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Conor Minto/Released)






HANOI, Vietnam (April 9, 2015) Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) Ray Mabus meets with Da Nang Peoples Committee Chairman Van Huu Chien to discuss cooperation and increasing partnership opportunities with Vietnam. Mabus is visiting the region as part of a multi-nation trip to the U.S. Pacific and European command areas of responsibility to meet with military and civilian leaders and Sailors and Marines. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Armando Gonzales/Released)






HANOI, Vietnam (April 9, 2015) Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) Ray Mabus meets with Vice Adm. Nguyen Van Hien, commander of the Vietnam People's Navy, to discuss cooperation and increasing partnership opportunities. Mabus is visiting the region as part of a multi-nation trip to the U.S. Pacific and European command areas of responsibility to meet with military and civilian leaders and Sailors and Marines. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Armando Gonzales/Released)





HANOI, Vietnam (April 8, 2015) Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) Ray Mabus meets with Vietnamese Chief of the General Staff Col. Gen. Do Ba Ty to discuss cooperation and increasing partnership opportunities. Mabus is visiting the region as part of a multinational trip to the U.S. Pacific and European command areas of responsibility to meet with military and civilian leaders and Sailors and Marines. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Armando Gonzales/Released)




HANOI, Vietnam (April 8, 2015) Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV) Ray Mabus meets with Marines assigned to the Marine Security Detachment at the U.S. Embassy in Vietnam. Mabus is visiting the region as part of a multinational trip to the U.S. Pacific and European command areas of responsibility to meet with military and civilian leaders and Sailors and Marines. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Armando Gonzales/Released)





DA NANG, Vietnam (April 9, 2015) Cmdr. Christopher England, commanding officer of the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62), gives a tour of the ship's combat information center to the U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius during Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) Vietnam 2015. In its sixth year, NEA Vietnam is designed to foster mutual understanding, build confidence in the maritime domain and strengthen relationships between the U.S. Navy, Vietnam People's Navy and the local community. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Patrick Dionne/Released)






DA NANG, Vietnam (April 9, 2015) Cmdr. Christopher England, commanding officer of the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62), gives a ship tour to the U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius during Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) Vietnam 2015. NEA Vietnam is designed to foster mutual understanding, build confidence in the maritime domain and strengthen relationships between the U.S. Navy, Vietnam People's Navy and the local community. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Patrick Dionne/Released)

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## Viet

searching the two missing pilots and crashed su-22s


























1 heli, 1 patrol aircraft, 1 warship, 5 patrol vessels are searching the sea.


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## Viet

one su-22 is found under water


























one of the missing pilot: Nguyễn Anh Tú (his 2 year old son)


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## Viet

Molynia missile guided corvettes M3 and M4 successfully completed sea trail.

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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> I wonder, why overhyped S-300 and S-400 is never considered by India? Thats interesting.
> 
> In 90s India bought some S-300, but never again shown interest in this system again. Or that system was never offered to India again, but thats highly unlikely? @Carlosa @Viet Anything you know about it. Instead India chose a very different path for SAM.


do you know of any systems that are better than s300/s400? Patriot perhaps? no, the US only exports to her allies, and vietnam is not in the list. do we want to become US ally? maybe yes, if the confrontation becomes unavoidable.

our s300 (and future s400) is part of our defence shield against chinese balistic missiles. but we should not make any illusions. if the chinese begin to fire 100 or 1,000 missiles on our cities, we have no chance.

conclusion, we must acquire the capabilty to strike chinese missiles sites by our balistic missiles AND our tank armies must be able to capture the sites by land invasion. well, the PLA seems to know it. we now have more than 3,200 tanks. with new established divisions of modern tanks of t-72 and t-90 tanks, we could break through chinese border defence.

PLA fears of 'Vietnamese invasion' halt Chinese city government's road construction project | South China Morning Post

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## kaku1

Viet said:


> do you know of any systems that are better than s300/s400? Patriot perhaps?
> 
> our s300 (and future s400) is part of our defence shield against chinese balistic missiles. but we should not make any illusions. if the chinese begin to fire 100 or 1,000 missiles on our cities, we have no chance.
> 
> no, we must acquire the capabilty to strike chinese missiles sites by our balistic missiles AND our tank armies must be able to capture the sites by land invasion. well, the PLA seems to know it.
> 
> PLA fears of 'Vietnamese invasion' halt Chinese city government's road construction project | South China Morning Post


Umm, yes. What about David's Sling, still in development stage. But this is even better than S-500.


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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Umm, yes. What about *David's Sling*, still in development stage. But this is even better than S-500.


what is it?


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## kaku1

Viet said:


> what is it?


David's Sling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> do you know of any systems that are better than s300/s400? Patriot perhaps? no, the US only exports to her allies, and vietnam is not in the list. do we want to become US ally? maybe yes, if the confrontation becomes unavoidable.
> 
> our s300 (and future s400) is part of our defence shield against chinese balistic missiles. but we should not make any illusions. if the chinese begin to fire 100 or 1,000 missiles on our cities, we have no chance.
> 
> conclusion, we must acquire the capabilty to strike chinese missiles sites by our balistic missiles AND our tank armies must be able to capture the sites by land invasion. well, the PLA seems to know it. we now have more than 3,200 tanks. with new established divisions of modern tanks of t-72 and t-90 tanks, we could break through chinese border defence.
> 
> PLA fears of 'Vietnamese invasion' halt Chinese city government's road construction project | South China Morning Post



I love SM-3 and THAAD.


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## Nike

most of Vietnam tank fleets is obsolete, and been left unmodernized for decades, if i recall most tank in your inventory is T-54/T-55/T-62 in which during Yom Kippur and Six Day War found them helpless against the combination of AMX-13 and Shot cal of Israel. And in comparison, Chinese army has modernized their fleet with newer MBT and technology.

And for reminder you should look at Syria, their inventory is more modern and larger than Vietnam but in the face of modern anti-tank weapons like MILAN, Kornet, Metis-M and BGM-72 TOW and the likes of RPG-29 in the hands of infantry rebels, most of their tanks is helpless.

Unless Vietnam can deploy something better like Merkava Mk IV, Abrams M1A1 or Challenger II and i recommend in large number too, i don't think your army with the so called large number of tanks will make much different situations against China battle front.


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## Aqsuperman

madokafc said:


> most of Vietnam tank fleets is obsolete, and been left unmodernized for decades, if i recall most tank in your inventory is T-54/T-55/T-62 in which during Yom Kippur and Six Day War found them helpless against the combination of AMX-13 and Shot cal of Israel. And in comparison, Chinese army has modernized their fleet with newer MBT and technology.
> 
> And for reminder you should look at Syria, their inventory is more modern and larger than Vietnam but in the face of modern anti-tank weapons like MILAN, Kornet, Metis-M and BGM-72 TOW and the likes of RPG-29 in the hands of infantry rebels, most of their tanks is helpless.
> 
> Unless Vietnam can deploy something better like Merkava Mk IV, Abrams M1A1 or Challenger II and i recommend in large number too, i don't think your army with the so called large number of tanks will make much different situations against China battle front.



Now about our tank fleet well yeah most of them is old but there is already a major upgrading program for both armor and FCS , also our tanks can use Bastion missle (which is extremely expensive so only the best crew in each companny got them, about 2-4 i think and with the recent rise in budget i hope its will soon be the standard load-out ) 

About those Syria tanks I think you are mistaking something , all tanks can be destroyed if it got a solid hit by a new genoration ATGM and in this case even easier in urban warfare , M1 Abrams tanks are burning everywhere in Iraq so is that a sigh of a "weak" tank ? this is more about crew training and moral than the level of equipments , with proper tactics we can make use even the vintage Su-100 :v 

Future conflict with China will be more likely short skirmish and VN will be on the defensive , if you have check our northen border geography , you will see that unless they practically use nuclear bombs on them there is no way they can effectively move in without facing interlocking fire from surrounding vantage points , we have plenty of well camouflage and hardened bunkers with professional troops armed with the latest toys from both Western and Russian including RPG-29 , RPO-A , Thermal Scanner , etc...........PS: Here is 1 of many tank that undergoing upgrade , plz do remember that this is top secret , i may get my *** kicked by C2 so be glad 






BTW that red T-shirt guy look very handsome , dont you all agree ? :3

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> most of Vietnam tank fleets is obsolete, and been left unmodernized for decades, if i recall most tank in your inventory is T-54/T-55/T-62 in which during Yom Kippur and Six Day War found them helpless against the combination of AMX-13 and Shot cal of Israel. And in comparison, Chinese army has modernized their fleet with newer MBT and technology.
> 
> And for reminder you should look at Syria, their inventory is more modern and larger than Vietnam but in the face of modern anti-tank weapons like MILAN, Kornet, Metis-M and BGM-72 TOW and the likes of RPG-29 in the hands of infantry rebels, most of their tanks is helpless.
> 
> Unless Vietnam can deploy something better like Merkava Mk IV, Abrams M1A1 or Challenger II and i recommend in large number too, i don't think your army with the so called large number of tanks will make much different situations against China battle front.



You forgot the 480 T-72s as per leaks from Russia and others, but anyway, the way Vietnam uses those old tanks is for infantry support and they are ok for that. Vietnam has other means to deal with enemy MBTs. Its also very clear from many unofficial sources that Vietnam started to get T-90s but I know you will ask for proof and that will not be possible anytime soon. 



kaku1 said:


> David's Sling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



David's sling its great with dual seekers, 400 km range and 50 km altitude range, but in no way can compete with S-500 which is a full BMD system (Israel has Arrow 2 / 3 for that) or with S-400 when it comes to BMD, S-400 uses the 40N6 missile with 185 km altitude range.



Aqsuperman said:


> Now about our tank fleet well yeah most of them is old but there is already a major upgrading program for both armor and FCS , also our tanks can use Bastion missle (which is extremely expensive so only the best crew in each companny got them, about 2-4 i think and with the recent rise in budget i hope its will soon be the standard load-out )
> 
> About those Syria tanks I think you are mistaking something , all tanks can be destroyed if it got a solid hit by a new genoration ATGM and in this case even easier in urban warfare , M1 Abrams tanks are burning everywhere in Iraq so is that a sigh of a "weak" tank ? this is more about crew training and moral than the level of equipments , with proper tactics we can make use even the vintage Su-100 :v
> 
> Future conflict with China will be more likely short skirmish and VN will be on the defensive , if you have check our northen border geography , you will see that unless they practically use nuclear bombs on them there is no way they can effectively move in without facing interlocking fire from surrounding vantage points , we have plenty of well camouflage and hardened bunkers with professional troops armed with the latest toys from both Western and Russian including RPG-29 , RPO-A , Thermal Scanner , etc...........PS: Here is 1 of many tank that undergoing upgrade , plz do remember that this is top secret , i may get my *** kicked by C2 so be glad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW that red T-shirt guy look very handsome , dont you all agree ? :3



What upgrade is that? You already revealed enough to get your arse kicked by C2, so you may as well reveal a bit more.


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> ...with proper tactics we can make use even the vintage Su-100.



Su-100? Thánh Ah Q, please don't talk with your Ah Q mentality here. You're still gonna die in a Su-100 against a Type99 no matter what spiritual power you have. 


Also I like your top secret info...from ttvn? Please don't blow arsse here. (If you gonna blow, blow it big.)



Carlosa said:


> You forgot the 480 T-72s as per leaks from Russia and others, but anyway, the way Vietnam uses those old tanks is for infantry support and they are ok for that. Vietnam has other means to deal with enemy MBTs. Its also very clear from many unofficial sources that Vietnam started to get T-90s but I know you will ask for proof and that will not be possible anytime soon.



Yea she keeps ignoring that reputable western source that says VN already has 500 T-72 and 200 T-90.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> David's sling its great with dual seekers, 400 km range and 50 km altitude range, but in no way can compete with S-500 which is a full BMD system (Israel has Arrow 2 / 3 for that) or with S-400 when it comes to BMD, S-400 uses the 40N6 missile with 185 km altitude range.


Forget the Arrow, Israel even refused its export to India, so I dont believe they export to Vietnam. 

On other note, BMD work as a network, its all about architect and data flow, how efficient radar system are working. 
And I dont think Russians have better radar than L-Band Super Green Pine or X-band AN/TPY-2. 

On other note, India using derivative of Green Pine called Swordfish LRTR and imported BMD architectures during starting of 2000 from Israel, and if India is serious about BMD network then ultimately India need to deploy X-band LRTR. 

Swordfish is good as static radar and protecting big cities, but cant be used as tactical or inside battlefield. 
The IIR seeker and ARH seeker in Indian BMD network is still russian, the Indian seeker was tested a month ago, but it failed. 

So, my verdict is, nope in seeker and radar or BMD architecture, Russians are decade behind than American or Israeli, and they cant match Arrow or David's Sling.

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## Nike

which is reputable western source? Wikipedia?


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Now about our tank fleet well yeah most of them is old but there is already a major upgrading program for both armor and FCS , also our tanks can use Bastion missle (which is extremely expensive so only the best crew in each companny got them, about 2-4 i think and with the recent rise in budget i hope its will soon be the standard load-out )
> 
> About those Syria tanks I think you are mistaking something , all tanks can be destroyed if it got a solid hit by a new genoration ATGM and in this case even easier in urban warfare , M1 Abrams tanks are burning everywhere in Iraq so is that a sigh of a "weak" tank ? this is more about crew training and moral than the level of equipments , with proper tactics we can make use even the vintage Su-100 :v
> 
> Future conflict with China will be more likely short skirmish and VN will be on the defensive , if you have check our northen border geography , you will see that unless they practically use nuclear bombs on them there is no way they can effectively move in without facing interlocking fire from surrounding vantage points , we have plenty of well camouflage and hardened bunkers with professional troops armed with the latest toys from both Western and Russian including RPG-29 , RPO-A , Thermal Scanner , etc...........PS: Here is 1 of many tank that undergoing upgrade , plz do remember that this is top secret , i may get my *** kicked by C2 so be glad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW that red T-shirt guy look very handsome , dont you all agree ? :3



That looks like the T-55M3 upgrade, but didn't they make only 1 prototype?


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## Aqsuperman

meh look like someone with little grey matter in his brain is speaking , i will just pretend that another crappy blabbering from a guy that have mental problem  and for that guy i said "we can make use of the Su-100" i never said VN will send them head on with the Type-99 , the SU-100 can be use to target China APC , IFV or light armored ones


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> which is reputable western source? Wikipedia?



Jane's as well as Russian suppliers that said that Vietnam asked them to upgrade 480 T-72 tanks, etc.


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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> That looks like the T-55M3 upgrade, but didn't they make only 1 prototype?


 Nah , you can see that the turret ring is different and the number of ERA on the front  I think that those ERA maybe come from the M3 project but this desigh look more like a T-55AM 

for the comparsion

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Nah , you can see that the turret ring is different and the number of ERA on the front  I think that those ERA maybe come from the M3 project but this desigh look more like a T-55AM
> 
> for the comparsion



You are right, it does look like a T-55AM. Here is one:

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## Aqsuperman

oh really ? is that so ? in Vietnamese we have this : éo thích đi ra thì làm gì nhau ? gần 300 trang toàn nói bừa và troll à ? đang bàn luận mà nói người khác thích chém gió ư ? việc chú chú làm việc tôi tôi làm éo thích khỏi đọc và nói bao nhiêu lần rồi đừng có tag , quote tôi vào , tôi ko thích nói chuyện với chú ok ? nói Tiếng Việt ko hiểu thì chắc chửi Tiếng Việt sẽ hiểu à ?


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Now about our tank fleet well yeah most of them is old but there is already a major upgrading program for both armor and FCS , also our tanks can use Bastion missle (which is extremely expensive so only the best crew in each companny got them, about 2-4 i think and with the recent rise in budget i hope its will soon be the standard load-out )
> 
> About those Syria tanks I think you are mistaking something , all tanks can be destroyed if it got a solid hit by a new genoration ATGM and in this case even easier in urban warfare , M1 Abrams tanks are burning everywhere in Iraq so is that a sigh of a "weak" tank ? this is more about crew training and moral than the level of equipments , with proper tactics we can make use even the vintage Su-100 :v
> 
> Future conflict with China will be more likely short skirmish and VN will be on the defensive , if you have check our northen border geography , you will see that unless they practically use nuclear bombs on them there is no way they can effectively move in without facing interlocking fire from surrounding vantage points , we have plenty of well camouflage and hardened bunkers with professional troops armed with the latest toys from both Western and Russian including RPG-29 , RPO-A , Thermal Scanner , etc...........PS: Here is 1 of many tank that undergoing upgrade , plz do remember that this is top secret , i may get my *** kicked by C2 so be glad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW that red T-shirt guy look very handsome , dont you all agree ? :3



Do you know if the engine or transmission is being replaced?


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## Aqsuperman

Rumour said that the engine will use a German 1000 HP ones , the same as the T55M3 but there is little info about the tranmisson , there is some new about the track being partially ceramic though which mean we can use them on our road without destroying them in the process

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Rumour said that the engine will use a German 1000 HP ones , the same as the T55M3 but there is little info about the tranmisson , there is some new about the track being partially ceramic though which mean we can use them on our road without destroying them in the process



That sounds pretty good; the T-55AMV is actually the way to go for those tanks, not too expensive, keep the same gun, add a lot of protection, new sensors and digital fire control system, new engine, ceramic tracks, thermal sleeve for the gun, not bad. Did I miss anything?

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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> oh really ? is that so ? in Vietnamese we have this : éo thích đi ra thì làm gì nhau ? gần 300 trang toàn nói bừa và troll à ? đang bàn luận mà nói người khác thích chém gió ư ? việc chú chú làm việc tôi tôi làm éo thích khỏi đọc và nói bao nhiêu lần rồi đừng có tag , quote tôi vào , tôi ko thích nói chuyện với chú ok ? nói Tiếng Việt ko hiểu thì chắc chửi Tiếng Việt sẽ hiểu à ?



Dung la nguVL. Thang ad va mod nó khinh re nguoi viet ma con muon o day để "bàn luận" cho forum cua bon no. O box ngoai kia bon no thuong xuyen khinh thuong nguoi dan viet, thế sao ông khong ra do ma bàn luận? mà ông nấp ở góc này toàn chém gió cái kiểu "bà con tôi quen ông Phung Quang Thanh và biết top secret đó." botay.

Topsecret lấy từ ttvn ra thì đúng hơn. 



Carlosa said:


> That sounds pretty good; the T-55AMV is actually the way to go for those tanks, not too expensive, keep the same gun, add a lot of protection, new sensors and digital fire control system, new engine, ceramic tracks, thermal sleeve for the gun, not bad. Did I miss anything?



Yeah the IMI T-55M3 upgrade package was too expensive, not worth it. This is the right decision.

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## Aqsuperman

nè ở đây ai cũng là người ko phải trâu bò lợn gà mà người nói người phải hiểu ok ? TÔI KHÔNG THÍCH NÓI CHUYỆN VỚI CHÚ , CHÚ THÍCH SỐNG THẾ NÀO KỆ CM CHÚ tôi bàn trong forum nào quyền của tôi chú chả có cái thá gì đáng để tôi nghe theo cả , tôi chả nói tôi quen tướng PQT tôi có nguồn có ảnh thì tung lên rồi bàn với mọi người , chú éo thích thì éo coi , đừng như cuc shit dính butt người ta đã éo muốn để ý nhưng cứ bám vào ok ? đừng tag quote tôi chả muốn nhìn cái mặt chú nữa , câm bớt đi cho thiên hạ nó nhờ


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Yeah the IMI T-55M3 upgrade package was too expensive, not worth it. This is the right decision.



Yes, $930.000 per tank for the T-55M3 upgrade its too much money for those tanks.
I guess some people didn't get the red envelopes from Israel though.


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## BoQ77

North Vietnam wasnt recognized as UN member at the time US president want to bring NV back to stone age. Vietnam become UN member with US recognization in 1977. Now no country could feel free to claim bringing Vietnam back to stone age any more. 
Btw, American failed to do so during 1960s to 1972.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Yes, $930.000 per tank for the T-55M3 upgrade its too much money for those tanks.
> I guess some people didn't get the red envelopes from Israel though.



I agree, the T-54 platform has its limit no matter how much money you put into it, so just settle for something modest.



madokafc said:


> which is reputable western source? Wikipedia?



Business Monitor International report called "Vietnam defense and security report 2015 Q1". Get someone to find you a copy and I can give you the specific page number. That source is western and will cost you $1300 for a copy. If you can't even get a copy, then you shouldn't be too hasty in making an insult. Whether you believe that source or not, I don't really care. I'm just giving you a reference to that source so you can read it for yourself. 



Aqsuperman said:


> nè ở đây ai cũng là người ko phải trâu bò lợn gà mà người nói người phải hiểu ok ? TÔI KHÔNG THÍCH NÓI CHUYỆN VỚI CHÚ , CHÚ THÍCH SỐNG THẾ NÀO KỆ CM CHÚ tôi bàn trong forum nào quyền của tôi chú chả có cái thá gì đáng để tôi nghe theo cả , tôi chả nói tôi quen tướng PQT tôi có nguồn có ảnh thì tung lên rồi bàn với mọi người , chú éo thích thì éo coi , đừng như cuc shit dính butt người ta đã éo muốn để ý nhưng cứ bám vào ok ? đừng tag quote tôi chả muốn nhìn cái mặt chú nữa , câm bớt đi cho thiên hạ nó nhờ



Ơ sao chú lại cay cú thế? Tôi chỉ nói sự thật thôi ma. Chú thích "bàn luận" thì tôi đã mời chú ra kia để "bàn luận" với bọn trau của anh béo, nhưng mà chú lại sợ chết ko dám ra trước mặt bọn trau kia. Rồi bây giờ chú chỉ nấp lúp ở một góc box này to mồm chửi người đồng hương thôi. Mà đã sợ chết rồi còn giả vờ chém gió là "tôi biết top secret để chia sẻ cho mọi người này bà con ơi!!"

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## Nike

hmmpppffh 


with the same logic i can said Indonesia already had the most number of Submarine


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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> David's Sling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


first, the system is not active yet. besides, the missile is a joint US-Israeli development, and everybody knows with few exceptions, america still keeps arms embargo.

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## William Hung

madokafc said:


> hmmpppffh
> 
> 
> with the same logic i can said Indonesia already had the most number of Submarine



I don't know what you're trying to say here. What logic? I just give you the name of the source:

"Vietnam Defence & Security Report 2015 Q1" by Business Monitor International. 

I'll even give you the specific page number where that report mentions the T-72 and T-90 currently in VN' s possession: It's on *page 30*.

You can get someone to find you a copy. If you can't even get your own copy then don't be too quick to mock. There are plenty of academics here on PDF, most of them should have access to BMI and help verify it for you. 

Whether you believe that report or not, I do not care. I'm just giving you the western reference.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> I agree, the T-54 platform has its limit no matter how much money you put into it, so just settle for something modest.



The big limitation to upgrade the T-55 to its full potential is the space inside. Its a bit too small to properly set up a 125 mm gun and autoloader as well as to dedicate enough space for better frontal armor. 

The best upgrade to take care of that is the T-55M6 upgrade where the chassis of the tank gets stretched and gets 6 road wheels on each side instead of 5. That takes care of the space issue and at that point it can get the turret of the T-72. That upgrade is very expensive by the way. So yes, Vietnam is doing the right upgrade for those tanks.



Aqsuperman said:


> Rumour said that the engine will use a German 1000 HP ones , the same as the T55M3 but there is little info about the tranmisson , there is some new about the track being partially ceramic though which mean we can use them on our road without destroying them in the process



Any idea about what fire control system will those tanks use?


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## Aqsuperman

Should have know that wasting time with a mental patient is meaningless  He just cant simply process that someone just dont want to talk with him , ...........must have a trouble childhood :v 

About the FCS not too much info right now , but personally i would really want the 1A40-1 ones (used on T-72s) , or the EFCS-3 of the Slovenian , these prove to be some of the most effective FCS for the enhancement of our eldery T-54/55 , ...............but with our large tank fleet this may turn out not too good........maybe only the Volna for now


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## Viet

*Singapore and Vietnam armed forces conduct joint medical mission*
AsiaOne Wednesday, Apr 15, 2015






_Medical team, comprising personnel from the SAF and the VPA, performing dental screening on a young Vietnamese boy in Vinh Phuc province, Hanoi, Vietnam._

http://news.asiaone.com/print/news/...am-armed-forces-conduct-joint-medical-mission
SINGAPORE - The Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) is on a joint medical mission with the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) in Vinh Phuc province, Hanoi, Vietnam.

Chief of Medical Corps Rear-Admiral (RADM) (Dr) Kang Wee Lee co-officiated at the opening ceremony of the mission with the Director General of the Vietnamese Ministry of National Defence's Military Medicine Department, Major-General Vu Quoc Binh on Wednesday.

The SAF-VPA Joint Medical Mission will be held from today till April 18.

Singapore's delegation includes 24 servicemen and women from the SAF Medical Corps. They will help provide primary healthcare, dental and ophthalmology services to the residents in Vinh Phuc province.

As part of the programme, the SAF and the VPA are also conducting medical professional knowledge exchanges on peace-keeping operations and humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations.

Speaking at the opening ceremony, RADM (Dr) Kang said: "The SAF strongly values the opportunities for mutual learning and professional interactions in the domain of military medicine, and is pleased to work with the VPA for this Joint Medical Mission."

Both armed forces interact regularly through high-level visits, professional exchanges, cross-attendance of courses and port calls.

ljessica@sph.com.sg


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> You forgot the 480 T-72s as per leaks from Russia and others, but anyway, the way Vietnam uses those old tanks is for infantry support and they are ok for that. Vietnam has other means to deal with enemy MBTs. Its also very clear from many unofficial sources that Vietnam started to get T-90s but I know you will ask for proof and that will not be possible anytime soon.



I'm recently approaching an order from Japan for undercarriage. Their requirements are very high, China can't meet, Vietnam's same.

To make those, we suggested ToT. We hope it's successful because there're many ToT from Japan to Vietnamese producers ( with Japanese supervisors ) around us: VEAM, SBIC ... Japanese showed their interest to make less NG and more OK parts.

@Carlosa: recently, a guy revealed that new Gepard corvettes would come with German engines. It's not new to most of people but to me it's just like EADS get approval to sell C-295 AEW to Vietnam.
It marks a change.

Z-125, Z-153 are the military factory of tanks and artilery. A friend of my father works there as director. Both studied in Guilin during 1953-1957 when they're kids.

This picture taken in Z153





My sister working in an A-xx factory for Air defense ... LOL

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I'm recently approaching an order from Japan for undercarriage. Their requirements are very high, China can't meet, Vietnam's same.
> 
> To make those, we suggested ToT. We hope it's successful because there're many ToT from Japan to Vietnamese producers ( with Japanese supervisors ) around us: VEAM, SBIC ... Japanese showed their interest to make less NG and more OK parts.
> 
> @Carlosa: recently, a guy revealed that new Gepard corvettes would come with German engines. It's not new to most of people but to me it's just like EADS get approval to sell C-295 AEW to Vietnam.
> It marks a change.
> 
> Z-125, Z-153 are the military factory of tanks and artilery. A friend of my father works there as director. Both studied in Guilin during 1953-1957 when they're kids.
> 
> This picture taken in Z153
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My sister working in an A-xx factory for Air defense ... LOL



Good luck with the undercarriage order man.

So you have good connections to what's going on those factories, good, share something if you are able.

I had that pic of the 2 tanks, its a bit old, but we'll be happy to see new pics. 

Yes, there is more and more western stuff coming.


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## Carlosa

*Life at Kilo-class submarine brigade in Vietnam*

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 04/21/2015






*A Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper contributor has expressed her marvel at the wholehearted dedication, rigorous training, and diligent study of the Russian language among the sailors stationed at a submarine base in central Vietnam after a recent visit.*

The _Tuoi Tre_ contributor narrated her memorable experiences during her trip to Submarine Brigade 189 under the Vietnam People's Navy.

The brigade is based in the Cam Ranh Military Port, which is situated in Khanh Hoa Province.

Before the brigade was founded in June 2011, selected soldiers joined a training course in Russia in October 2010 prior to passing on what they had learned to their colleagues and juniors at home.

However, rigorous training began well before that.

Over 30 years ago, Submarine Regiment 196 came into being and boasted well-qualified human resources.

Many members of the regiment's force were later transferred to the current Submarine Brigade 189.

Younger recruits to the brigade all excel in technical training, have good physique and stamina, and cope well under pressure.

One of the initial challenges involved newcomers spinning over 100 times and they were requested to regain balance shortly after the spinning came to a stop.

They also took on an immense challenge which required them to stay in a compressed air chamber with its pressure equivalent to that at a depth of 50 to 70 meters.

Such strenuous challenges now become their everyday routines.
















_Submarine sailors are pictured during their everyday routines. Photo:_ Tuoi Tre

However, the sailors' arduous physical training did not surprise the_Tuoi Tre_ contributor as much as their single-minded devotion to honing their professional skills and command of Russian.

During her trip to the Russian-supported Submarine Training Center, which is located inside the Cam Ranh Military Port, she was amazed at the perplexingly intricate simulations, diagrams, and annotations written in Russian.

The center is one of Southeast Asia's most state-of-the-art facilities.

An officer affirmed that the sailors and staff there all have an adequate grasp of Russian.

The sailors’ eagerness to learn the Russian language was confirmed after the Tuoi Tre contributor met Team 7, which was once trained in India.

On Friday evening, the members did not watch films or sing together.

The 40-year-old team leader and his juniors as young as 24 years old were totally engrossed in their Russian studies.

Trained in Russia, the _Tuoi Tre_ contributor sought permission to join their learning session.

Her keen observations showed that even those who just took up the language a few months back and mostly learn by teaching themselves are surprisingly proficient in the language.

The Russian experts who the _Tuoi Tre_ contributor briefly talked to earlier during the trip gave them profuse compliments on their diligence, brightness, and willingness to learn.

The brigade received two Kilo-class submarines 182-Hanoi and 183-Ho Chi Minh City over one year ago but the officers and sailors have been in full control of the vessels.

They do not need accompanying Russian experts during their trips that last several days under the sea.

Vietnam signed a contract to buy six Kilo-class subs from Russia during Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung’s visit to Moscow in 2009.

Officers and hands on the 184-Hai Phong Submarine also manoeuvered the ship with relative ease thanks to their adequate grasp of the Russian language.

Apart from taking classes in professional skills, the sailors spend 3.5 hours from 7:30 pm to 11:00 pm every day but they still can get up at 6:00 the next morning for a three-kilometer run.

The officers insist only Russian be used in many of their internal meetings.






_Submarine sailors and an officer are pictured during a drill. Photo:_Tuoi Tre

*No room for errors*

Safety and teamwork are the utmost priority among submarine sailors.

“There’s no room whatsoever for errors, as they may cost lives,” the head of Submarine Brigade 189 stressed.

One of the stories which the _Tuoi Tre_ contributor found most compelling was the sonar radar operators’ keen sense of hearing to detect all passing ships of various sizes.

During highly authentic emergency exit drills, whenever some problem arose in a chamber, instead of getting out, the sailors inside that chamber were required to lock themselves tight in and work on the problem in order not to affect other chambers.

The sailors and their special work thrive on their mutual understanding, trust, and willingness to sacrifice for their comrades.

*More surprises in store*

The _Tuoi Tre _contributor went from one surprise to another during her stay with Submarine Brigade 189.

One of them was how the male officers and sailors managed to keep their all-white uniforms speckless and crease-free, which is quite a challenge for many housewives.

The _Tuoi Tre_ contributor also kept pondering over why all the naval soldiers boast such flawlessly white teeth.

According to Dau Van Hoang, captain of the 184-Hai Phong Submarine, the first priority for submarine sailors is having decay-free teeth.

“Inside the submarines, where oxygen is such a scarcity for several days on end, the entire crew members stay alive on a mixture of air, of which oxygen makes up a mere 29 percent or even a lower percentage,” he explained.

“The exhaled air is always recycled to be inhaled again. If one has decaying teeth, the air would be rendered unusable,” Hoang said with a beaming smile, showing off his immaculately white teeth.

In one of the intriguing stories the _Tuoi Tre_ contributor was told during her trip, Lieutenant Vu Van Dung, of Team 7, was prepared to get married, with his marriage date fixed.

However, he was sent to India for a task right before the wedding.

The two families decided to proceed with the wedding anyway, and Dung’s bride and her family agreed to carry out the bridal ceremony through Skype, a chatting program.

On the wedding day, the bride, the two families, their relatives, and friends celebrated the big day in Vietnam, while the groom attended the ceremony and party through Skype.






_A submarine docks proudly at the Cam Ranh Military Port in Khanh Hoa Province. Photo:_ Tuoi Tre

Russian-made Kilo-class submarines, dubbed “black holes in the ocean” for its astonishing ability to vanish into the depth of the ocean, were built on a pilot basis during the mid-1990s.

Four electric-diesel Kilo-class subs have been handed over to Vietnam.

The fifth one, Khanh Hoa, left the Admiralty shipping yard in Russia on a trial run on April 1, 2015.

The sixth, Vung Tau, whose building began in May last year, is expected to be transferred to Vietnam next year.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam to add 2 locally-built warships to naval fleet this quarter*

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 04/20/2015 





A system of missiles against warships is seen on the side of HQ377, one of the first two fast-attack missile ships of the Molniya class handed over to the Vietnam People’s Navy in July, 2014.

The Vietnam People’s Navy will add two warships to its fleet in the next two months following the recent successful test run of two fast-attack missile ships of the Molniya class, the first of its kind to have been built locally, according to government websitechinhphu.vn.

The two warships, HQ379 and HQ380, have been accepted by a joint council made up of Ministry of Defense and Vietnam People’s Navy officials after the test run.

This is the second patch of a series of six such missile warships designed on the basis of a Russian version in accordance with an agreement over technology transfer signed by Vietnam and Russia in 2009, chinhphu.vn reported.

They will be officially added to the country’s naval fleet within this quarter, chinhphu.vn said.

Like the first two Molniya-class missile warships, which are equipped with advanced weapons and state-of-the-art functions, the latest duo were built at the Ba Son shipyard under the General Department of Military Industry.

They can operate at sea for 10 straight days despite winds as strong as 74kph and are able to attack targets both in the air and in the sea, chinhphu.vn said.

Compared to an older Russian version of its kind, the new vessels have a more modern engine system.

The ships are designed to destroy teams or groups of warships, amphibious ships, corvettes, and other enemy fleets independently.

They can also help protect submarines and amphibious ships, and perform reconnaissance missions at sea.

In addition to a modern radar system that can track targets accurately, each of the warships is equipped with 16 sea-to-sea Uran-E missiles arranged into four modules for launch on its sides with a range of 130 kilometers.

Each of them has two AK-630 ship-borne artillery systems with 4,000 shells each, which can fire 4,000-5,000 shots per minute at a range of 4-5 kilometers, and an AK-176M automatic gun having a range of 15 kilometers for sea and land targets and 11 kilometers for air targets, according to chinhphu.vn.

The first two Molniya-class warships, HQ377 and HQ378, were handed over to the Vietnam People’s Navy in July last year.

The last two will be given to the navy in the second quarter of 2016.

Besides the Molniya-class shipbuilding program, the Ba Son shipyard is also building patrol boats, reconnaissance ships, search and rescue vessels, and tugboats for the Vietnam People’s Navy and the Vietnam Coast Guard.

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## Viet

since the thai army took over the power in the country, our relationship to their army becomes better. even our defence minister General Thanh talked of an alliance with thailand. that is new. 

April 20th: visiting Chief of Defence of the Royal Thai Armed Forces Worapong Sanganetra in Hanoi.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> since the thai army took over the power in the country, our relationship to their army becomes better. even our defence minister General Thanh talked of an alliance with thailand. that is new.
> 
> April 20th: visiting Chief of Defence of the Royal Thai Armed Forces Worapong Sanganetra in Hanoi.



Don't think too much about that. They always talk like that to everybody.
Thai people 101: Don't take anything they say at face value, they usually tell you what you want to hear or they just simply want to make you feel good. 
Its a Thai cultural thing.


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Don't think too much about that. They always talk like that to everybody.
> Thai people 101: Don't take anything they say at face value, they usually tell you what you want to hear or they just simply want to make you feel good.
> Its a Thai cultural thing.


he he he...I see you don´t like the thai people. actually they are ok.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> he he he...I see you don´t like the thai people. actually they are ok.



No, Its not about not liking them, its how they are. Ask any foreigner that lives or had lived in Thailand and they will tell you the same thing.

Its a cultural thing and its very ingrained in their head. Walk down the street in Thailand, ask a Thai for directions to find a place that you want to go to and if they don't know how to get there, they'll still give you some directions even that they know they are wrong because they feel that they will lose face if they say that they don't know. Trust me, its like that. Thai people don't believe anything that other Thai people say, they know each other. Hey, I used to be married to a Thai in USA for 7 years. I know them very well man.

I don't dislike them actually, every country has some issues, they have theirs just like everybody else. They are certainly very nice people in general.

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## Viet

April, 1975 the final battles and following collapse of south vietnam government on April 30.













6,200 soldiers, militia, and civilians will march on *April 30* Saigon street remembering the victory and country unification 40 years ago. preparation excercise Nguồn ảnh: VietNamNet.


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## Aqsuperman

Somehow i think that we should use the ACE 32 instead of the ACE 31 for the parade , the ACE 31 is kind of short dont you all think ?


----------



## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Somehow i think that we should use the ACE 32 instead of the ACE 31 for the parade , the ACE 31 is kind of short dont you all think ?


I think the military unit should use the ace variant in the parade that is in daily use, be either ace31 or ace32.


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## BoQ77

Recently, some more units wear berets.
Including this





2 APR 2015















they called this as another division of special force ( airborne division )





Look like this ( former South Vietnam airborne


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## Aqsuperman

I thought those are VN troops working for the UN contingent in Sudan ?


----------



## Viet

_very curious news:
- 50 (vietnamese?) asylum seekers were deported on a transport ship, that can carry 700 personnel, including 2 large helis and 2 landing crafts._


* Australia reportedly uses navy ship to return asylum seekers to Vietnam *

Helen Davidson in Darwin
Friday 17 April 2015 08.44 BST Last modified on Friday 17 April 2015 09.06 BST

Media reports indicate up to 50 asylum seekers were on board the HMAS Choules on Friday and due to arrive in the port of Vung Tau




_HMAS Choules, which was reportedly carrying up to 50 asylum seekers back to Vietnam on Friday afternoon. Photograph: Royal Australian Navy/AAP
_

The Australian government has reportedly used a costly navy vessel to return a number of asylum seekers to Vietnam. Up to 50 people were on board the Navy supply ship HMAS Choules, the West Australian reported on Friday.

The asylum seekers’ vessel was reportedly intercepted in early April. HMAS Choules left Darwin on 5 April but no publicly available data shows its record beyond there.

It’s not clear if the asylum seekers were intercepted and then brought to the mainland, or held on the vessel, but local sources say no large group of Vietnamese asylum seekers has been moved in or out of Darwin in recent weeks.

A previous interception involved a controversial fast-track process to screen 38 Sri Lankan asylum seekers while still at sea, before returning 37 of them to Sri Lanka.

In January the high court found found the detention of 157 Tamil asylum seekers on board the Ocean Protector at sea for more than a month last year was lawful.

HMAS Choules was due to arrive in Vung Tau, south of Ho Chi Minh city, within the next day, Fairfax Media reported.

The ship is large enough to carry up to 700 personnel, and has a flight deck “which can accommodate two large helicopters and a docking well in the stern capable of operating a LCM-8 or two LCVP landing craft,” according to the navy. The West Australian reports it has a daily running cost of more than $201,000.

Defence, customs and the immigration department have been contacted for comment, but the Abbott government generally does not comment about “on-water matters”.

Guardian Australia has previously revealed the Australian government engaged a Vietnamese shipbuilding company in the construction of several Vietnamese fishing boat style vessels, to be used in towback operations instead of $46,000, single-use orange lifeboats.

The wooden vessels have been stored in dry dock in Darwin. Another similar-looking vessel built of alloy is kept in a nearby bay and has been taken out frequently in recent years, according to a local dock worker familiar with it.

Australia reportedly uses navy ship to return asylum seekers to Vietnam | Australia news | The Guardian


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## Viet

a gift for our friend John McCain by National Assembly (NA) Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan during her visit to the US Congress. April 22.

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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam to add 2 locally-built warships to naval fleet this quarter*
> 
> TUOI TRE NEWS
> 
> UPDATED : 04/20/2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A system of missiles against warships is seen on the side of HQ377, one of the first two fast-attack missile ships of the Molniya class handed over to the Vietnam People’s Navy in July, 2014.
> 
> The Vietnam People’s Navy will add two warships to its fleet in the next two months following the recent successful test run of two fast-attack missile ships of the Molniya class, the first of its kind to have been built locally, according to government websitechinhphu.vn.
> 
> The two warships, HQ379 and HQ380, have been accepted by a joint council made up of Ministry of Defense and Vietnam People’s Navy officials after the test run.
> 
> This is the second patch of a series of six such missile warships designed on the basis of a Russian version in accordance with an agreement over technology transfer signed by Vietnam and Russia in 2009, chinhphu.vn reported.
> 
> They will be officially added to the country’s naval fleet within this quarter, chinhphu.vn said.
> 
> Like the first two Molniya-class missile warships, which are equipped with advanced weapons and state-of-the-art functions, the latest duo were built at the Ba Son shipyard under the General Department of Military Industry.
> 
> They can operate at sea for 10 straight days despite winds as strong as 74kph and are able to attack targets both in the air and in the sea, chinhphu.vn said.
> 
> Compared to an older Russian version of its kind, the new vessels have a more modern engine system.
> 
> The ships are designed to destroy teams or groups of warships, amphibious ships, corvettes, and other enemy fleets independently.
> 
> They can also help protect submarines and amphibious ships, and perform reconnaissance missions at sea.
> 
> In addition to a modern radar system that can track targets accurately, each of the warships is equipped with 16 sea-to-sea Uran-E missiles arranged into four modules for launch on its sides with a range of 130 kilometers.
> 
> Each of them has two AK-630 ship-borne artillery systems with 4,000 shells each, which can fire 4,000-5,000 shots per minute at a range of 4-5 kilometers, and an AK-176M automatic gun having a range of 15 kilometers for sea and land targets and 11 kilometers for air targets, according to chinhphu.vn.
> 
> The first two Molniya-class warships, HQ377 and HQ378, were handed over to the Vietnam People’s Navy in July last year.
> 
> The last two will be given to the navy in the second quarter of 2016.
> 
> Besides the Molniya-class shipbuilding program, the Ba Son shipyard is also building patrol boats, reconnaissance ships, search and rescue vessels, and tugboats for the Vietnam People’s Navy and the Vietnam Coast Guard.



Its seem that our only BPS-500 (HQ-381) will be given a new number and its current number will be given to one of the new Mol , poor guy 
BTW , not really relevant but do you know Silent Knight ? the guy that from "rice rice" ?

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Its seem that our only BPS-500 (HQ-381) will be given a new number and its current number will be given to one of the new Mol , poor guy
> BTW , not really relevant but do you know Silent Knight ? the guy that from "rice rice" ?



Ha ha, I sure know the guy from "rice rice", why? I also read the BPS-500 info at the "rice rice" website.  Do you like the "rice rice" website?


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## Viet

_I post here the article. curious about the exact wordings of the philipine president revealing to the press._


News›Asia›Diplomacy
PUBLISHED : Monday, 20 April, 2015, 8:03am
Vietnam asked Philippines to form pact to counter China, Aquino reveals | South China Morning Post
South China Morning Post
21 Apr 2015





_Philippine President Benigno Aquino during the interview at the presidential palace. The yellow ribbon is a symbol of his famous parents. Photo: SCMP Pictures_


A new “strategic partnership” being negotiated between two states fending off China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea was suggested by Vietnam, Philippine President Benigno Aquino has revealed.

It had been widely assumed that the proposed pact between Vietnam and the Philippines was initiated by Manila, which has taken a high-profile stand against China.

In an exclusive interview with the _South China Morning Post_, the Philippine president said China’s moves in the South China Sea were even more alarming than a year ago, when he likened global inaction to China’s push to appeasing Hitler – comments that angered China.

In the interview last Thursday, Aquino stood by his remarks. Pulling out a map of the South China Sea, he said: “Perhaps it’s even worse today.”

I do not start a day [thinking] ‘how do I tweak the noses of these people?’

*President Aquino on his relationship with China*

But he added that it was never his intention to rile China by speaking up about the issue. “I can assure them that that is not a priority with me. I do not start a day [thinking] ‘how do I tweak the noses of these people?’… Put yourself in my position. I do have to protect my country’s interest and my countrymen’s rights. I’d like to view their actions as also doing the same thing.”

He also said it made sense for the Philippines to pursue closer ties with countries with which it had common interests and goals, adding: “Vietnam is asking us for a strategic partnership.”

According to media reports, when officials from the Philippines and Vietnam met earlier this year, they agreed on a joint statement that focused on the South China Sea, expressing concern about China’s “massive reclamation activities” in the area. No date for signing the pact has been set.




Philippine President Benigno Aquino gave his longest ever interview to the Post's Raissa Robles. Aquino revealed that Vietnam had suggested a new “strategic partnership” to fend off China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea. Photo: SCMP Pictures“We’re actually just defining what it is … We’re working out the details,” Aquino told the _Post_.

Vietnam and the Philippines have overlapping claims in the South China Sea, as do China, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

During the interview that lasted well over two hours at Malacanang Palace, a relaxed Aquino fielded a wide range of questions but the focus returned several times to the South China Sea.

On the proposed pact with Vietnam, Aquino said: “Anyway, when your strategic partner starts with the overlapping claims, there’s more room to have a reasonable dialogue rather than reacting with the national interest, separate national interest.”

The Philippines has two strategic partners - the United States and Japan, and both have criticised China for its expansionist moves in the South China Sea.

Asked if it was wise for Manila to push strategic partnerships with countries that China viewed warily and adding a third that China had exchanged fire with, Aquino said this was not intentional.





“We had them [the US and Japan] as strategic partners before China looked at them suspiciously,” he said.

“We’re not forming these partnerships with the end point of forming a coalition against somebody.” He said such partnerships were formed “if somebody feels we have a lot of common interest with, who can help us achieve our goals, our national goals.”

When asked how useful the country’s alliance with the US was, given the strict limits on an armed US response under the Philippine-US Mutual Defence Treaty, Aquino replied: “I cannot answer that question in the sense of telling them how the Americans, for instance, have been helping us.”

We’re not forming these partnerships with the end point of forming a coalition against somebody
“For instance, [in] maritime domain awareness,” he said.

Asked to elaborate, Aquino said: “At the end of the day you know what is happening in your waters.”

On whether this meant “real time” awareness, Aquino said “that’s the part I’m not confident in answering you”, and then chuckled.

“When we advertise this, I think we also announce weakness … I think it’s against our national interest to say what we are capable of.”




US assistance for maritime domain awareness was first included in the Enhanced Defence Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) which Manila signed with Washington a year ago. The EDCA made no mention of Manila’s conflict with China in the South China Sea.

However, Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said then that the EDCA was in response to the “rapidly evolving regional architecture” that necessitated “strengthening maritime security and maritime domain awareness”, among others.

Del Rosario, who was present during the Post’s interview, also said Manila was expecting to present its case in oral arguments before an ad hoc arbitral tribunal under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in July. A decision could be delivered within six months or by early next year.

China has refused to take part in the proceedings. Asked what the point was in obtaining a decision that China would possibly not follow, Aquino said: “We were cognizant of that … in deciding whether or not to go into arbitration. We were told that this body really does not have that enforcement capability.”





But Aquino warned that if China ignored a tribunal ruling in Manila’s favour, it would have a negative impact on China’s dealings with other nations.

“If suddenly, sometimes you will follow and sometimes you will not, that I think will give pause to the trading partners whose doors have to be open for the growth in their economy,” he said.

Was there any condition under which the Philippines would consider pulling out of the arbitration as China has urged it to do?

“Given the fact that we’re expecting a decision either this year or early next year, and then we go back to a status quo of uncertainty, I think that denigrates the original decision to go into the mode of finally settling this ambiguity,” Aquino said.

*INFOGRAPHIC: Territorial disputes between China and the Philippines*




Pressed on whether there was any hesitation on his part to pursue the arbitration to its final conclusion, Aquino replied that even if his government and China came to a bilateral agreement on the issue, any deal would be next to useless because there are - besides the Philippines and China - four other claimants. “How can we have an agreement binding on the other four?” he said.

“So perhaps there’s an agreement amongst the six. And it’s signed. Then perhaps there’s no need for arbitration.”

However, he indicated that was far-fetched: “That is not a – let us table everything and discuss this continuously for the next 10 generations. Who’ll agree with something like that?”

Aquino also indicated the high-stakes engagement that the Philippines was in. New light has been shed on China’s rapid reclamation efforts to build an air strip on Mischief Reef. And Aquino said he was taking seriously reports of a possible surprise occupation by China of Manila-occupied Pagasa Island, though these have been officially denied by Beijing. Contingency plans were in place, he stressed.





_A crewman from the Vietnamese coastguard ship 8003 looks out at sea as Chinese coastguard vessels give chase to Vietnamese ships that came close to the Haiyang Shiyou 981, known in Vietnam as HD-981, oil rig in the South China Sea in this July 15, 2014 file photo. Photo: Reuters_

Asked to assess China’s possible reclamation of more reefs and shoals in the disputed waters, Aquino said: “I will tend to sound like a rabble rouser. Can I just say, I hope not.”

“I don’t see the logic of their move. Therefore I hope that logic and rationality prevail. Since there is no gain, why embark on something like that?”

He said the world was watching China.

“There’s a certain downside anytime they decide that ‘we want this, we want that’, they just go ahead and do it. And everybody will say, please do so. You’re welcome to it. I don’t think that will be the world reaction.”

He added that it was in China’s interest to promote stability in the region, especially in the South China Sea, a conduit for more than 40 per cent of world trade, because not doing so would not help China improve its own economy.

Asked if Aquino had a message for Xi, he said: “In his downtime, when he’s taking a break, perhaps, I really would ask him: ’Put yourself in our position, perhaps, even that of Vietnam, and how would you respond to the challenges that are happening in the South China Sea?’ ’Put yourself in our shoes, please’. And, then, hopefully, we will be able to achieve a better relationship especially with these contentious issues.”

“Perhaps, we should also focus on the fact that, to a large degree, this is the only contentious issue between our relations. And removing that is really, I think, a worthwhile goal.”

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> What if i tell you that im working for "rice rice" ?



Very interesting man, I like "rice rice" a lot and also SK.
What do you do there?
I often have a hard time understanding the stuff at rice rice because google translate is quite bad at translating. I would love to understand the gossip. I have the same problem at ttvnol.



Viet said:


> _I post here the article. curious about the exact wordings of the philipine president revealing to the press._
> 
> 
> News›Asia›Diplomacy
> PUBLISHED : Monday, 20 April, 2015, 8:03am
> Vietnam asked Philippines to form pact to counter China, Aquino reveals | South China Morning Post
> South China Morning Post
> 21 Apr 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Philippine President Benigno Aquino during the interview at the presidential palace. The yellow ribbon is a symbol of his famous parents. Photo: SCMP Pictures_
> 
> 
> A new “strategic partnership” being negotiated between two states fending off China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea was suggested by Vietnam, Philippine President Benigno Aquino has revealed.
> 
> It had been widely assumed that the proposed pact between Vietnam and the Philippines was initiated by Manila, which has taken a high-profile stand against China.
> 
> In an exclusive interview with the _South China Morning Post_, the Philippine president said China’s moves in the South China Sea were even more alarming than a year ago, when he likened global inaction to China’s push to appeasing Hitler – comments that angered China.
> 
> In the interview last Thursday, Aquino stood by his remarks. Pulling out a map of the South China Sea, he said: “Perhaps it’s even worse today.”
> 
> I do not start a day [thinking] ‘how do I tweak the noses of these people?’
> 
> *President Aquino on his relationship with China*
> 
> But he added that it was never his intention to rile China by speaking up about the issue. “I can assure them that that is not a priority with me. I do not start a day [thinking] ‘how do I tweak the noses of these people?’… Put yourself in my position. I do have to protect my country’s interest and my countrymen’s rights. I’d like to view their actions as also doing the same thing.”
> 
> He also said it made sense for the Philippines to pursue closer ties with countries with which it had common interests and goals, adding: “Vietnam is asking us for a strategic partnership.”
> 
> According to media reports, when officials from the Philippines and Vietnam met earlier this year, they agreed on a joint statement that focused on the South China Sea, expressing concern about China’s “massive reclamation activities” in the area. No date for signing the pact has been set.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philippine President Benigno Aquino gave his longest ever interview to the Post's Raissa Robles. Aquino revealed that Vietnam had suggested a new “strategic partnership” to fend off China’s maritime claims in the South China Sea. Photo: SCMP Pictures“We’re actually just defining what it is … We’re working out the details,” Aquino told the _Post_.
> 
> Vietnam and the Philippines have overlapping claims in the South China Sea, as do China, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.
> 
> During the interview that lasted well over two hours at Malacanang Palace, a relaxed Aquino fielded a wide range of questions but the focus returned several times to the South China Sea.
> 
> On the proposed pact with Vietnam, Aquino said: “Anyway, when your strategic partner starts with the overlapping claims, there’s more room to have a reasonable dialogue rather than reacting with the national interest, separate national interest.”
> 
> The Philippines has two strategic partners - the United States and Japan, and both have criticised China for its expansionist moves in the South China Sea.
> 
> Asked if it was wise for Manila to push strategic partnerships with countries that China viewed warily and adding a third that China had exchanged fire with, Aquino said this was not intentional.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We had them [the US and Japan] as strategic partners before China looked at them suspiciously,” he said.
> 
> “We’re not forming these partnerships with the end point of forming a coalition against somebody.” He said such partnerships were formed “if somebody feels we have a lot of common interest with, who can help us achieve our goals, our national goals.”
> 
> When asked how useful the country’s alliance with the US was, given the strict limits on an armed US response under the Philippine-US Mutual Defence Treaty, Aquino replied: “I cannot answer that question in the sense of telling them how the Americans, for instance, have been helping us.”
> 
> We’re not forming these partnerships with the end point of forming a coalition against somebody
> “For instance, [in] maritime domain awareness,” he said.
> 
> Asked to elaborate, Aquino said: “At the end of the day you know what is happening in your waters.”
> 
> On whether this meant “real time” awareness, Aquino said “that’s the part I’m not confident in answering you”, and then chuckled.
> 
> “When we advertise this, I think we also announce weakness … I think it’s against our national interest to say what we are capable of.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US assistance for maritime domain awareness was first included in the Enhanced Defence Cooperation Agreement (EDCA) which Manila signed with Washington a year ago. The EDCA made no mention of Manila’s conflict with China in the South China Sea.
> 
> However, Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said then that the EDCA was in response to the “rapidly evolving regional architecture” that necessitated “strengthening maritime security and maritime domain awareness”, among others.
> 
> Del Rosario, who was present during the Post’s interview, also said Manila was expecting to present its case in oral arguments before an ad hoc arbitral tribunal under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in July. A decision could be delivered within six months or by early next year.
> 
> China has refused to take part in the proceedings. Asked what the point was in obtaining a decision that China would possibly not follow, Aquino said: “We were cognizant of that … in deciding whether or not to go into arbitration. We were told that this body really does not have that enforcement capability.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But Aquino warned that if China ignored a tribunal ruling in Manila’s favour, it would have a negative impact on China’s dealings with other nations.
> 
> “If suddenly, sometimes you will follow and sometimes you will not, that I think will give pause to the trading partners whose doors have to be open for the growth in their economy,” he said.
> 
> Was there any condition under which the Philippines would consider pulling out of the arbitration as China has urged it to do?
> 
> “Given the fact that we’re expecting a decision either this year or early next year, and then we go back to a status quo of uncertainty, I think that denigrates the original decision to go into the mode of finally settling this ambiguity,” Aquino said.
> 
> *INFOGRAPHIC: Territorial disputes between China and the Philippines*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pressed on whether there was any hesitation on his part to pursue the arbitration to its final conclusion, Aquino replied that even if his government and China came to a bilateral agreement on the issue, any deal would be next to useless because there are - besides the Philippines and China - four other claimants. “How can we have an agreement binding on the other four?” he said.
> 
> “So perhaps there’s an agreement amongst the six. And it’s signed. Then perhaps there’s no need for arbitration.”
> 
> However, he indicated that was far-fetched: “That is not a – let us table everything and discuss this continuously for the next 10 generations. Who’ll agree with something like that?”
> 
> Aquino also indicated the high-stakes engagement that the Philippines was in. New light has been shed on China’s rapid reclamation efforts to build an air strip on Mischief Reef. And Aquino said he was taking seriously reports of a possible surprise occupation by China of Manila-occupied Pagasa Island, though these have been officially denied by Beijing. Contingency plans were in place, he stressed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A crewman from the Vietnamese coastguard ship 8003 looks out at sea as Chinese coastguard vessels give chase to Vietnamese ships that came close to the Haiyang Shiyou 981, known in Vietnam as HD-981, oil rig in the South China Sea in this July 15, 2014 file photo. Photo: ReutersAsked to assess China’s possible reclamation of more reefs and shoals in the disputed waters, Aquino said: “I will tend to sound like a rabble rouser. Can I just say, I hope not.”
> 
> “I don’t see the logic of their move. Therefore I hope that logic and rationality prevail. Since there is no gain, why embark on something like that?”
> 
> He said the world was watching China.
> 
> “There’s a certain downside anytime they decide that ‘we want this, we want that’, they just go ahead and do it. And everybody will say, please do so. You’re welcome to it. I don’t think that will be the world reaction.”
> 
> He added that it was in China’s interest to promote stability in the region, especially in the South China Sea, a conduit for more than 40 per cent of world trade, because not doing so would not help China improve its own economy.
> 
> Asked if Aquino had a message for Xi, he said: “In his downtime, when he’s taking a break, perhaps, I really would ask him: ’Put yourself in our position, perhaps, even that of Vietnam, and how would you respond to the challenges that are happening in the South China Sea?’ ’Put yourself in our shoes, please’. And, then, hopefully, we will be able to achieve a better relationship especially with these contentious issues.”
> 
> “Perhaps, we should also focus on the fact that, to a large degree, this is the only contentious issue between our relations. And removing that is really, I think, a worthwhile goal.”



He is shooting in several directions man, and in one of those directions he is warming up to china. He is basically saying to them, hey, I'd like to make a deal with you. Lets also make a grand deal with all the claimants.


----------



## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> What if i tell you that im working for "rice rice" ?


are you one of the webmasters?



Carlosa said:


> He is shooting in several directions man, and in one of those directions he is warming up to china. He is basically saying to them, hey, I'd like to make a deal with you. Lets also make a grand deal with all the claimants.


we have a small overlapping claim with the philippines. I think we can work out a deal. that is what the vietnam government has in mind. yellow: vietnam, blue: philippines. our sea border to malaysia, indonesia and brunei is settled.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> are you one of the webmasters?
> 
> 
> we have a small overlapping claim with the philippines. I think we can work out a deal. that is what the vietnam government has in mind. yellow: vietnam, blue: philippines. our sea border to malaysia, indonesia and brunei is settled.



Yes, but its not an small overlap man, its one hell of an overlap, most of the Viet islands are in the PH EEZ.

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## Viet

Vietnam Damen shipyard in Hai Phong. nice video of the shipyard with new ships and many under construction.

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## Viet

this one is nice: fast crew boat Damen FCS 5009 class

specs: steel, length 53.25m, speed 30kn, 80 men crew, radars,differential GPS,beacons information systems GMDSS A3, weapons systems of Reutech Group (South Africa) with a 20mm gun, high pressured water cannons.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Hey don't forget to invite me



Come over to Danang man, lets party! 

The international fireworks festival starts in 5 days.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> I need an invitation from the cool kids first before I join the party!
> 
> Vietnamese kite and firework festival is something I want to stay away!!!



No man, this is an *International* festival, the public does not participate in the fireworks, the fireworks are done by international professional crews, the Italians usually win.

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> What?? You rate @Viet higher than me??? I've been banned waaaaay more times than Viet or Carlosa, that's evidence of my ability and as BoQ77 say, dangerousness.
> 
> Only BoQ77, NiceGuy, EastSea is above me.
> 
> Why not me?
> I don't get what you say about the first part about the trees... are you saying I'm one of the funny guy?


Lol... first, you post a detailed summary of vietnam security report here then we will talk 



Carlosa said:


> Come over to Danang man, lets party!
> 
> The international fireworks festival starts in 5 days.


danang seems to get all attentions, my hometown nha trang is slowly diving into a no-name town 



Aqsuperman said:


> and for you Yoro , Luckily..........i mean unfortunately followning recent activities ( No-U gathering , trees cut down , etc ) we ask opinions about a person within the "secret order" before recruting them (to make sure that no funny guys get in and release our info )  about *Viet *and Carlosa i think Silent Knight will talk to them soon ,.........not sure about you though :v
> and i go with 6 , "dont know , dont care"


no matter if I join the club or not, I warn you in advance: I will forever say Saigon, never "HCMC"

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## Viet

April 20, Rear Admiral Shihid Sohail Rao on a visit to the army head quarter. the Pakistan army suggests signing a bilateral defense cooperation.



Trung tướng Bế Xuân Trường chào mừng Chuẩn Đô đốc Shihid Sohail Rao sang thăm và làm việc tại Việt Nam
Chiều 20/4, tại Trụ sở Bộ Quốc phòng, Trung tướng Bế Xuân Trường, Phó Tổng Tham mưu trưởng QĐND Việt Nam đã tiếp Chuẩn Đô đốc Shihid Sohail Rao, Phó Giám đốc Học viện Quốc phòng Pakistan, nhân dịp sang thăm và làm việc tại nước ta.









Toàn cảnh buổi tiếp




Trung tướng Bế Xuân Trường chụp ảnh lưu niệm cùng Chuẩn Đô đốc Shihid Sohail Rao và các thành viên trong đoàn


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## Viet

that is quick:


*PHL, Vietnam to hold naval drills*

More from: VERA Files: PHL, Vietnam to hold naval drills, scientific research in South China Sea | News | GMA News Online


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## Aqsuperman

meh i wish Philipine actually have a navy for the drill............we should have bring our Coast Guard instead of our Navy to match the Philipine equipments

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## Aqsuperman

Im in Hanoi since my birth  we always need more help


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Im in Hanoi since my birth  we always need more help



Looks like we lost some pages, server rollback. We lost 5 days of postings.


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## Viet

so sad, many good postings were gone. rest in peace.


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## William Hung

Oh dear, looks like some of those old posts that mentioned the secret order info leaked by aqsuperman has returned again and can no longer be deleted.


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## Aqsuperman

.........And look like the shark do eat something beside the cable  
On the other side , Israel really do on the rise in VN military , both army and navy . First the Orbiter , EXTRA , MATADOR , Tavor now even ACE ,SPYDER , ACCULAR ..........Damn if some Python or Nimrod got purchase for the airforce , I wonder what our future Armed Force will look like ?


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> .........And look like the shark do eat something beside the cable
> On the other side , Israel really do on the rise in VN military , both army and navy . First the Orbiter , EXTRA , MATADOR , Tavor now even ACE ,SPYDER , ACCULAR ..........Damn if some Python or Nimrod got purchase for the airforce , I wonder what our future Armed Force will look like ?



All of that is good but I'm not going to be happy until I see Barak 8 in Vietnamese ships.


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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> All of that is good but I'm not going to be happy until I see Barak 8 in Vietnamese ships.


How much does a western mechanical engineer with 7 years experience make in vietnam making military weapons?


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## Carlosa

frequency said:


> How much does a western mechanical engineer with 7 years experience make in vietnam making military weapons?



I have no idea man, I don't work or do business in Vietnam, I just relax full time . Why?


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## NiceGuy

April 1975 victory celebrated around the world
29/04/2015 | 17:32:34






Representatives from the Argentine Lower House as well as ambassadors representing India, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines and NicaraguaA ceremony attended the ceremony in Buenos Aires, Argentina. (Photo: VNA)

Vietnamese communities around the world have organised a number of celebrations to mark the 40th anniversary of the Liberation of South Vietnam and National Reunification, which falls on April 30.

A ceremony was held on April 28 in Buenos Aires, Argentina to mark the event, with the participation of representatives from the Argentine Lower House as well as ambassadors representing India, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines and Nicaragua.

Speaking at the event, Chairman of the Argentine Lower House’s Foreign Affairs Committee, Guillermo Carmona, lauded the achievements that the 92 million-strong country of Vietnam has gained in the 40 since the war.

Meanwhile, Maria Carolina Perez Colman, Foreign Policy Undersecretary at the Argentine Foreign Ministry, expressed delight at the solidarity, friendship and cooperation between the two countries, evidenced by two-way trade exceeding 1.95 billion USD last year, a surge from the 830 million USD recorded in 2010.

At the same time, Vietnamese Ambassador to Argentina Nguyen Dinh Thao noted that after four decades, unexploded bombs and mines left over from the war continue to threaten the lives of locals. He did however highlight the nation’s development achievements.

The Vietnamese Embassy in Egypt organised a similar ceremony on the same day.

The anniversary was marked in India at a meeting held by the All-India Peace and Solidarity Organisation (AIPSO) on April 28.

In France , the Vietnamese community gathered at the Vietnamese Embassy on April 27 to celebrate the great spring 1975 victory. Addressing the event, Ambassador Nguyen Ngoc Son highlighted the significance of the General Offensive and Uprising that led to the complete liberation of South Vietnam, putting an end to the American War and reunifying the nation.

He stated that the desire for peace was the key motivator inspiring Vietnamese people to achieve the victory. He also thanked foreign partners for supporting Vietnam in the struggle.

A day earlier, a similar gathering was held by the Association of Vietnamese Veterans in the German state of Sachsen Anhalt, as they too officially celebrated the victory.

Yet another ceremony was also jointly held by the Vietnamese Embassy in Hungary and the Hungary-Vietnam Friendship Association, drawing locals and representatives from Budapest city government as well as overseas Vietnamese in the country.

Ambassador Nguyen Thanh Tuan said after four decades, Vietnam has risen from a poor and underdeveloped country to become a nation of peace and stability with a speedily growing economy and improved living conditions. He said it has integrated deeply with the rest of the world and is playing an increasingly important role on the global stage.

He also spoke highly of the assistance that has come from the international community, including Hungarian friends, to support national defence and construction.-VNA
April 1975 victory celebrated around the world -- Vietnam+ (VietnamPlus)

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## NiceGuy

April 30th in SaiGon.

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## frequency

NiceGuy said:


> April 30th in SaiGon.



Those guys can use some steak and chicken breast.

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## William Hung

Happy Victory day everyone. 





Saigon 1975: A north Vietnamese soldier kneeling in front of the Notre Dame Catholic Cathedral. War is over, pray for peace.

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## Reashot Xigwin

*Vietnam Buys Deadly New Missiles Capable of Hitting China*
Hanoi is the first Southeast Asian nation arming its submarines with land attack cruise missiles.





Maquette of 3M-54E missile SS-N-27 "Sizzler"
Image Credit: Wikimedia Commons





By Franz-Stefan Gady
April 30, 2015
Vietnam is in the process of acquiring 50 anti-ship and land attack 3M-14E _Klub_ supersonic cruise missiles for its burgeoning fleet of SSK _Kilo_-class diesel-electric submarines, _Der Spiegel Online_ reports.

According to the article, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) recently updated data on its website, based on information obtained from the United Nations’ register of conventional arms, indicating that Russia has already delivered 28 missiles over the last two years to Hanoi, although the precise number remains unknown.

The _Klub_ is a Russian-made conventional supersonic cruise missile, “designed to destroy targets protected by sophisticated active air defenses and countermeasures,” _deagel.com _explains. It is an export variant of Russia’s “carrier killer” 3M-54 (NATO designation: SS-N-27A “Sizzler”) and capable of long-range precision strikes.

While it is unknown whether the anti-ship variant of the weapon sold to Vietnam is the 3M-54E Klub-S (range 220km) or 3M-54E1 (range 300km) – both of which can be launched from submarines – the land-attack variant is almost certainly the 3M-14E (range 300km), capable of carrying a 450kg warhead.

The purchase of land attack cruise missiles mark a “massive shift” beyond advancing the Vietnamese’s Navy’s anti-ship capabilities, according to naval analyst Carl Thayer quoted by _Reuters_. “They’ve given themselves a much more powerful deterrent that complicates China’s strategic calculations,” he added.

Principal targets for the new missile could be the Chinese naval base at Sanya on China’s Hainan Island and military facilities (e.g., ports and airfields) that China is building in the potentially oil-rich South China Sea (see: “South China Sea: China’s Unprecedented Spratlys Building Program”).

The launch platforms for Vietnam’s new weapons will be six 4,000-ton Type 636 _Kilo_-class diesel-electric submarines – labelled “black holes” by the U.S. Navy due to their quietness, according to _UNSI News_.

The website _naval-technology.com _notes about the Type 636 _Kilo_-class:

_Type 636 is designed for anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface-ship warfare (ASuW) and also for general reconnaissance and patrol missions. The Type 636 submarine is considered to be to be one of the quietest diesel submarines in the world. It is said to be capable of detecting an enemy submarine at a range three to four times greater than it can be detected itself._

The Vietnamese Navy has already commissioned two _Kilo_-class vessels – the HQ-182 Hanoi and HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh City – in 2014, while it received the third sub, the HQ-184 _Haiphong, _in February of this year.

_Reuters_ states that the fourth Kilo-class vessel is already in transit to Vietnam, with a fifth undergoing seal-trials in St. Petersburg and the sixth and last to be completed and delivered in 2016. Hanoi and Moscow signed a $ 2.6 billion contract for the modernization of Vietnam’s submarine fleet back in 2009.

Once the last vessel is commissioned, Vietnam will have the most modern submarine force in all of Southeast Asia. Its principal purpose will be to act as a credible deterrent force to Chinese “adventurism” in Vietnam’s maritime domain.

However, as Carl Thayer noted in _The Diplomat_ (see: “Can Vietnam’s Maritime Strategy Counter China?”) it remains to be seen whether Vietnam can develop new doctrines and tactics to use its new weapon platforms, and how quickly the Vietnamese Navy can integrate its new fleet of submarines into the country’s overall counter-intervention strategy _vis-à-vis _Beijing.

“The views of defense analysts range from skeptical to cautiously optimistic about Vietnam’s ability to develop an effective counter-intervention strategy to deter China in Vietnam’s maritime domain,” Thayer summarizes.

He concludes:

_The purpose of Vietnam’s counter-intervention strategy is intended to deter China from deploying PLAN warships at the lower end of the conflict spectrum, such as assisting civilian law enforcement agency vessels operating in Vietnamese waters or blockading Vietnamese-held islands and features in the South China Sea.

Vietnam Buys Deadly New Missiles Capable of Hitting China | The Diplomat_

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## Viet

april 30, victory parade

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## Viet



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## fadine




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## fadine



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## Carlosa

April 30th, Reunification day military parade in Hanoi video:

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## Viet

Oh nice: I like it when the chinese cry. that means we do something right.

China tells Philippines, Vietnam to cease intrusive action at sea
- Xinhua | English.news.cn

_Vietnam has undertaken large-scale reclamation work on more than twenty islands and reefs belonging to Nansha Islands, building ports, runways, missile positions, office buildings, camps, hotels and lighthouses, the spokesperson said.

Vietnam has also built a number of houses and helicopter platforms on Wan'an Tan, Xiwei Tan, Lizhun Tan and Aonan Ansha, Hong added. _

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Oh nice: I like it when the chinese cry. that means we do something right.
> 
> China tells Philippines, Vietnam to cease intrusive action at sea
> - Xinhua | English.news.cn
> 
> _Vietnam has undertaken large-scale reclamation work on more than twenty islands and reefs belonging to Nansha Islands, building ports, runways, missile positions, office buildings, camps, hotels and lighthouses, the spokesperson said.
> 
> Vietnam has also built a number of houses and helicopter platforms on Wan'an Tan, Xiwei Tan, Lizhun Tan and Aonan Ansha, Hong added. _


Cool, Russia-US should give more support to VN, imagine when VN build 40 mega artificial isls with full of air base, naval port in Spratly while CN only can build 6 or 7 small isls.....


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## fadine



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## Carlosa



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## Viet

fadine said:


>


what is that? a sort of anti aircraft missile?


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> what is that?


 Klub-S for Kilo in its container or we commonly know as 3M54

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## Viet

women power

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## Carlosa

*The Frightened Vietnamese Kid Who Became A U.S. Army General*
*http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2015/04/30/403082804/the-frightened-vietnamese-kid-who-became-a-u-s-army-general*





Brig. Gen. Viet Luong of the 1st Cavalry Division came to the United States in the 1970s after his family fled Vietnam in the waning days of the war there. He's now leading the effort to train Afghan soldiers to fight the Taliban.

David Gilkey/NPR
Brig. Gen. Viet Luong sits on a case of MREs, the soldiers' daily meals. He's inside a cavernous hanger at an Afghan army base outside the southern city of Kandahar.

A couple dozen American and Australian soldiers lounge on green cots lining the sides. Banners of U.S. military units hang on the walls. Between the troops is a 6-foot-tall shipment of Girl Scout cookies.

Luong's job is to train the Afghan military to fight a guerrilla force, the Taliban. But he's willing to talk about another guerrilla war, long ago.

Forty years ago this week Luong's father, a South Vietnamese Marine major, called an urgent family meeting at their home in Saigon, now known as Ho Chi Minh City. The city, his father told them, soon would fall to the North Vietnamese — the communist forces he was helping the Americans fight.

They sat around the table — father, mother, seven sisters and Luong, then age 9.

"My sisters actually had a very strong opinion — like 'we need to stay until we find a way out as a family,' " he recalls.

His father worried they wouldn't be able to escape together. He suggested Luong, the only boy, and one of his sisters should flee the country in the hopes the family could be preserved.

"I was depressed! I didn't want to get sent to — you know, to the U.S. I didn't want to ... my dad, to go to the jungles," he says, his voice catching in his throat. "It was pretty tough, as a kid."
*
A Way Out*

They were helped by an American reporter who was a friend. Luong still remembers the night he came to give the entire family official government papers that would get them into Tan Son Nhut Air Base, just north of Saigon. From there, they'd be taken out of Vietnam.

"It's like, 'OK, pack your stuff — do not talk to any of your friends, just pack some clothes,' and his driver snuck us out at night," Luong says.

Soon after the family arrived at the air base, rockets and mortars started landing.

"Yeah, it was close enough where I can hear people groaning from getting hit," he says.

The general stops for a moment, and looks down. His eyes begin to fill with tears.

"I was lying then on my stomach," he says. "We're Catholics, so I was saying my Hail Marys, you know. And uh ... and so we were scared, so my dad looked up and said 'look — don't be afraid.' He said 'you're missing out on a monumental moment in history,' right? 'You need to be able to see what's going on.' So that calmed us down for a little bit, but it was really hopeless until the Marines came in."

On April 29, 1975, the family boarded a Marine helicopter and headed out to the South China Sea. When they landed on a U.S. carrier, Luong was disoriented.

"I still remember that moment to this day, because as soon as we landed I looked at my dad and I said, uh, I said 'Dad, where are we at?' And he looked at me and he says, 'hey, we're aboard the American carrier USS Hancock.' And I say, 'well, what does that mean?' And he looked at me and he said, 'that means nothing in the world can harm you now.' "

*A Promise Kept*

Luong made a decision on that carrier deck.

"People might not believe that, but, I knew right back then that I want to serve our country," he says.

Other members of the family were not as lucky. Left behind were two uncles who would serve nearly a dozen years each in a communist re-education camp, before they would make it to the U.S.

Luong and his family spent weeks in refugee camps in the Philippines and Guam before arriving in Fort Chaffee, Ark. Eventually, they moved to California.

Luong attended the University of Southern California and joined ROTC, keeping good on the promise he made on that carrier flight deck. He would join the Army.

"My dad told me — I think half-jokingly maybe — that he was disappointed that I wasn't going to be a Marine," Luong says. "But he says, 'as long as you're gonna be an airborne guy, that's OK, too.' "

Luong rose up the ranks, and is now deputy commander of the First Cavalry Division, based out of Fort Hood, Texas.

In January, he made his second deployment to Afghanistan, where he leads the training effort at the Kandahar Air Base.

*Drawing Parallels*

Luong knows there is irony in his presence here: A boy who fled America's longest war, only to grow up and advise foreign forces in what became America's new longest war. Like many back home, he talks about the parallels between the fights in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

"I wouldn't call it a quagmire," he says. "I think there's a lot of similarities. You know, the sanctuaries are there, the insurgency is there .... you know, the corruption's there. But I think there's hope, right? With [Afghan President Ashraf] Ghani, I think, and with the new government, I see hope."

He cautions the Americans here not to focus on body counts, the grim numbers that became synonymous with the Vietnam experience. He recalls a famous quote by the North Vietnamese commander, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap.

"He was talking to one of his American counterparts after the war, and the American general told him that, 'hey, we won every tactical engagement against you,' " he says. "And Giap looked at him and said, 'it's also irrelevant.' "

Luong expects a different outcome in Afghanistan. He says the Afghan army is growing better all the time.

Neither Luong nor his family ever returned to Vietnam. His father said he never would visit the country until it respected human rights. The elder Luong died in 1997, living long enough to see his son promoted to captain.

The general thinks it now might be time for him to visit Vietnam.

"I think I need to, for some closure," he says. "I think eventually I probably need to go back and seek out my roots."

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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> *The Frightened Vietnamese Kid Who Became A U.S. Army General*
> *http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2015/04/30/403082804/the-frightened-vietnamese-kid-who-became-a-u-s-army-general*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brig. Gen. Viet Luong of the 1st Cavalry Division came to the United States in the 1970s after his family fled Vietnam in the waning days of the war there. He's now leading the effort to train Afghan soldiers to fight the Taliban.
> 
> David Gilkey/NPR
> Brig. Gen. Viet Luong sits on a case of MREs, the soldiers' daily meals. He's inside a cavernous hanger at an Afghan army base outside the southern city of Kandahar.
> 
> A couple dozen American and Australian soldiers lounge on green cots lining the sides. Banners of U.S. military units hang on the walls. Between the troops is a 6-foot-tall shipment of Girl Scout cookies.
> 
> Luong's job is to train the Afghan military to fight a guerrilla force, the Taliban. But he's willing to talk about another guerrilla war, long ago.
> 
> Forty years ago this week Luong's father, a South Vietnamese Marine major, called an urgent family meeting at their home in Saigon, now known as Ho Chi Minh City. The city, his father told them, soon would fall to the North Vietnamese — the communist forces he was helping the Americans fight.
> 
> They sat around the table — father, mother, seven sisters and Luong, then age 9.
> 
> "My sisters actually had a very strong opinion — like 'we need to stay until we find a way out as a family,' " he recalls.
> 
> His father worried they wouldn't be able to escape together. He suggested Luong, the only boy, and one of his sisters should flee the country in the hopes the family could be preserved.
> 
> "I was depressed! I didn't want to get sent to — you know, to the U.S. I didn't want to ... my dad, to go to the jungles," he says, his voice catching in his throat. "It was pretty tough, as a kid."
> *
> A Way Out*
> 
> They were helped by an American reporter who was a friend. Luong still remembers the night he came to give the entire family official government papers that would get them into Tan Son Nhut Air Base, just north of Saigon. From there, they'd be taken out of Vietnam.
> 
> "It's like, 'OK, pack your stuff — do not talk to any of your friends, just pack some clothes,' and his driver snuck us out at night," Luong says.
> 
> Soon after the family arrived at the air base, rockets and mortars started landing.
> 
> "Yeah, it was close enough where I can hear people groaning from getting hit," he says.
> 
> The general stops for a moment, and looks down. His eyes begin to fill with tears.
> 
> "I was lying then on my stomach," he says. "We're Catholics, so I was saying my Hail Marys, you know. And uh ... and so we were scared, so my dad looked up and said 'look — don't be afraid.' He said 'you're missing out on a monumental moment in history,' right? 'You need to be able to see what's going on.' So that calmed us down for a little bit, but it was really hopeless until the Marines came in."
> 
> On April 29, 1975, the family boarded a Marine helicopter and headed out to the South China Sea. When they landed on a U.S. carrier, Luong was disoriented.
> 
> "I still remember that moment to this day, because as soon as we landed I looked at my dad and I said, uh, I said 'Dad, where are we at?' And he looked at me and he says, 'hey, we're aboard the American carrier USS Hancock.' And I say, 'well, what does that mean?' And he looked at me and he said, 'that means nothing in the world can harm you now.' "
> 
> *A Promise Kept*
> 
> Luong made a decision on that carrier deck.
> 
> "People might not believe that, but, I knew right back then that I want to serve our country," he says.
> 
> Other members of the family were not as lucky. Left behind were two uncles who would serve nearly a dozen years each in a communist re-education camp, before they would make it to the U.S.
> 
> Luong and his family spent weeks in refugee camps in the Philippines and Guam before arriving in Fort Chaffee, Ark. Eventually, they moved to California.
> 
> Luong attended the University of Southern California and joined ROTC, keeping good on the promise he made on that carrier flight deck. He would join the Army.
> 
> "My dad told me — I think half-jokingly maybe — that he was disappointed that I wasn't going to be a Marine," Luong says. "But he says, 'as long as you're gonna be an airborne guy, that's OK, too.' "
> 
> Luong rose up the ranks, and is now deputy commander of the First Cavalry Division, based out of Fort Hood, Texas.
> 
> In January, he made his second deployment to Afghanistan, where he leads the training effort at the Kandahar Air Base.
> 
> *Drawing Parallels*
> 
> Luong knows there is irony in his presence here: A boy who fled America's longest war, only to grow up and advise foreign forces in what became America's new longest war. Like many back home, he talks about the parallels between the fights in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
> 
> "I wouldn't call it a quagmire," he says. "I think there's a lot of similarities. You know, the sanctuaries are there, the insurgency is there .... you know, the corruption's there. But I think there's hope, right? With [Afghan President Ashraf] Ghani, I think, and with the new government, I see hope."
> 
> He cautions the Americans here not to focus on body counts, the grim numbers that became synonymous with the Vietnam experience. He recalls a famous quote by the North Vietnamese commander, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap.
> 
> "He was talking to one of his American counterparts after the war, and the American general told him that, 'hey, we won every tactical engagement against you,' " he says. "And Giap looked at him and said, 'it's also irrelevant.' "
> 
> Luong expects a different outcome in Afghanistan. He says the Afghan army is growing better all the time.
> 
> Neither Luong nor his family ever returned to Vietnam. His father said he never would visit the country until it respected human rights. The elder Luong died in 1997, living long enough to see his son promoted to captain.
> 
> The general thinks it now might be time for him to visit Vietnam.
> 
> "I think I need to, for some closure," he says. "I think eventually I probably need to go back and seek out my roots."



Many Vietnamese are good fighters. They just don't show up to the public. The public doesn't need to know.

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## Viet

fadine said:


>


cam ranh bay? the army shows openness. that is new.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> cam ranh bay? the army shows openness. that is new.



Yes, that's what my contacts say, they are going to show stuff more and more. They realized that showing a lot of stuff helps to create deterrence.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's what my contacts say, they are going to show stuff more and more. They realized that showing a lot of stuff helps to create deterrence.


good. that brings more light into our army, and less speculation.

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## frequency

Viet said:


> good. that brings more light into our army, and less speculation.



Vietnam needs to learn how to make EMP bombs and High Energy Long Range Laser Beam.

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## Viet

5 year old news, but very hot topic for today conflict in bien dong: Vietnam maritime militia. China has similar maritime militia. actually only Vietnam and China have organised maritime militia.

Meet the Chinese Maritime Militia Waging a ‘People’s War at Sea’ - China Real Time Report - WSJ

good that the government gives money to build some 30,000 steel fishing vessels. specs:750 HP, speed 11 nautical miles per hour, range 2,000 nautical miles, radar system, a GSP machine, a magnetic compass, a portable 2-way transceiver, and other advanced navigation equipment. The boat can store food, drinking water, and other necessary items for use for 30 days.








*Vietnam to set up militia to protect sea borders*
Agence France-Presse
Posted at 11/23/2009 7:46 PM

HANOI - Vietnamese lawmakers on Monday approved a law to establish a marine militia to protect the communist country's maritime sovereignty, state media said.

The militia will "cooperate with border guards, navy, sea police and other forces to protect national border security and the sovereignty of Vietnam's sea areas," according to the draft text of the law obtained by AFP.

Vietnam has a 3,200-kilometre (2,000-mile) coastline and wants to fully develop the potential of its marine territory despite long-standing disputes with neighbouring countries, especially China, over sovereignty in the South China Sea.

China and Hanoi have a dispute over ownership of the Paracel islands, which Beijing has administered since 1974 when it overran a South Vietnamese outpost shortly before the end of the Vietnam War.

Separately, the potentially oil-rich Spratly island chain is claimed entirely or in part by Brunei, China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam.

The marine militia will be set up "to protect our fishermen... in interest and sovereignty, not to oppose anyone" Le Quang Binh, chairman of the National Assembly's Defence and Security Committee, said in an earlier interview with the VietnamNet online news site.

State media over the past few months have reported incidents where Vietnamese fishermen were robbed or attacked by "foreign vessels" while fishing in Vietnam's territory.

"In peace time, the marine militia may join sea rescue and relief works or other activities at the request of the state. Only when war occurs will they be armed and become fighting forces," the deputy head of the defence ministry, Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Khac Nghien, said on VietnamNet.



frequency said:


> Vietnam needs to learn how to make EMP bombs and High Energy Long Range Laser Beam.


star war? no, I believe we need more subs. carrying long range balistic missile.


----------



## frequency

Viet said:


> 5 year old news, but very hot topic for today conflict in bien dong: Vietnam maritime militia. China has similar maritime militia. actually only Vietnam and China have organiesed maritime militia.
> 
> Meet the Chinese Maritime Militia Waging a ‘People’s War at Sea’ - China Real Time Report - WSJ
> 
> good that the government gives money to build some 30,000 steel fishing vessels. specs:750 HP, speed 11 nautical miles per hour, range 2,000 nautical miles, radar system, a GSP machine, a magnetic compass, a portable 2-way transceiver, and other advanced navigation equipment. The boat can store food, drinking water, and other necessary items for use for 30 days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnam to set up militia to protect sea borders*
> Agence France-Presse
> Posted at 11/23/2009 7:46 PM
> 
> HANOI - Vietnamese lawmakers on Monday approved a law to establish a marine militia to protect the communist country's maritime sovereignty, state media said.
> 
> The militia will "cooperate with border guards, navy, sea police and other forces to protect national border security and the sovereignty of Vietnam's sea areas," according to the draft text of the law obtained by AFP.
> 
> Vietnam has a 3,200-kilometre (2,000-mile) coastline and wants to fully develop the potential of its marine territory despite long-standing disputes with neighbouring countries, especially China, over sovereignty in the South China Sea.
> 
> China and Hanoi have a dispute over ownership of the Paracel islands, which Beijing has administered since 1974 when it overran a South Vietnamese outpost shortly before the end of the Vietnam War.
> 
> Separately, the potentially oil-rich Spratly island chain is claimed entirely or in part by Brunei, China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam.
> 
> The marine militia will be set up "to protect our fishermen... in interest and sovereignty, not to oppose anyone" Le Quang Binh, chairman of the National Assembly's Defence and Security Committee, said in an earlier interview with the VietnamNet online news site.
> 
> State media over the past few months have reported incidents where Vietnamese fishermen were robbed or attacked by "foreign vessels" while fishing in Vietnam's territory.
> 
> "In peace time, the marine militia may join sea rescue and relief works or other activities at the request of the state. Only when war occurs will they be armed and become fighting forces," the deputy head of the defence ministry, Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Khac Nghien, said on VietnamNet.
> 
> 
> star war? no, I believe we need more subs. carrying long range balistic missile.



nah, those are more practical against electronics and smart missiles.


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## Viet

frequency said:


> nah, those are more practical against electronics and smart missiles.


we need some toys now, not in 10 years or longer.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> we need some toys now, not in 10 years or longer.



You can multi-task and it doesn't take 10 years, dude.


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## NiceGuy

2 more surveillance ships r coming to join the 'FUN' in SCS(east sea)

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## Carlosa

EXTRA and Accular at the parade of the 60th year Anniversary of the Vietnam's People Navy.





Video of the parade: Image and video from comcom

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## Soryu

More pic of celebration of VPAN day:

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## Soryu

Part 2:

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## Carlosa

A video of the naval parade, just the vessels and aircraft:

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## Viet

that is nice. Vietnam maritime power in the making.

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## Viet

sad news for the relatives: frogmen found the dead bodies of the su-22 pilots, that were killed in the crash during a night bombing raid exercise.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> sad news for the relatives: frogmen found the dead bodies of the su-22 pilots, that were killed in the crash during a night bombing raid exercise.


Frogmen? U mean divers.


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## Soryu

Some more pic of Navy's parade:



































P/S: All of these were from vnexpress.net news agency, credited to An Nhơn and Hong Phuc.

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## Soryu

Navy troop's parade:





Military and Government leaders came up.





President, Mr. Truong Tan Sang give the Honor title to Navy.

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## Soryu

Naval troop.





Naval officers





Naval Special Force





Marine corp (Naval infantry)





Naval intelligence troop





Submarine's crew member





Navy Guards

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## Soryu

More pics about Navy parade from Mr. Nguyen Dinh Quan:


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## Soryu



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## Carlosa

Does anybody know what the designation of the 85 mm gun is? It looks a little bit different than the D-44 (the metal shield of the gun has a different shape). Could this be the D-48?
*Edit*, I just saw the new video of the parade, It is indeed the D-44, an upgraded design I guess.





What ship is this? *Edit:* Minesweeper

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## Carlosa

Here are the new full length videos of the parade with Viet subtitles from comcom:

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Does anybody know what the designation of the 85 mm gun is? It looks a little bit different than the D-44 (the metal shield of the gun has a different shape). Could this be the D-48?
> *Edit*, I just saw the new video of the parade, It is indeed the D-44, an upgraded design I guess.
> View attachment 218240


Yes, we place them on Spratly along with some Extra, BMP-2, PT-76 ... to defend the Islands.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> Yes, we place them on Spratly along with some Extra, BMP-2, PT-76 ... to defend the Islands.



Yes, now I understand a bit better how these guns are used for island defense, the 85 mm is a direct line of sight gun, designed as an anti tank gun with a 1.3 km range, so it gets used against the incoming landing craft. I don't think its as effective as anti tank missiles, but everything helps.

I also saw a 76 mm gun in the full video of the parade, does anybody know what the designation of the 76 mm gun is?

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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> Does anybody know what the designation of the 85 mm gun is? It looks a little bit different than the D-44 (the metal shield of the gun has a different shape). Could this be the D-48?
> *Edit*, I just saw the new video of the parade, It is indeed the D-44, an upgraded design I guess.
> View attachment 218240
> 
> 
> What ship is this? *Edit:* Minesweeper
> View attachment 218241




you can always check the muzzel break for more detail  in this case its the D-48 due to the beehive muzzel break while the D-44 have a gill muzzel break 
And yeah that a minesweeper , a Soviet Sonya-class ship 


Carlosa said:


> Yes, now I understand a bit better how these guns are used for island defense, the 85 mm is a direct line of sight gun, designed as an anti tank gun with a 1.3 km range, so it gets used against the incoming landing craft. I don't think its as effective as anti tank missiles, but everything helps.
> 
> I also saw a 76 mm gun in the full video of the parade, does anybody know what the designation of the 76 mm gun is?



Zis-3  Facking relic from WW2 but still pack quite a punch in direct fire

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> you can always check the muzzel break for more detail  in this case its the D-48 due to the beehive muzzel break while the D-44 have a gill muzzel break
> And yeah that a minesweeper , a Soviet Sonya-class ship
> 
> 
> Zis-3  Facking relic from WW2 but still pack quite a punch in direct fire



Wait a moment, the full length video of the parade from comcom has that gun labeled as D-44, is that a mistake?



Aqsuperman said:


> Zis-3  Facking relic from WW2 but still pack quite a punch in direct fire



Yes, that gun can do 25 shots a minute, not bad at all. Old or not, doesn't matter, if still works well and its effective, then can use them.

Are those guns only bought from Russia or is it manufactured in VN now (the Zis-3, D-44 and D-48)?


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## Aqsuperman

uh........look like some problem pop up , gotta go now :v 
And no , i quite sure that we may producing ammunition for them and performing maintance but we havent manfacture any type of heavy arty system , last time i check we only produce barrel for the AGS 17 and the 61-K anti aircraft


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## Viet

@Carlosa and bros, _here is a Chinese report on our defence in the south china sea. interesting insight._

South China Sea rivals compared by Global Times｜WantChinaTimes.com

*Vietnam: Military build-up on nine islands*

From the early 1970s to the early 1990s, Vietnam occupied 29 islands and reefs in the Spratlys and strengthened their defensive infrastructure in the region.

Vietnam has used two defensive strategies. The first is to set up defensive positions comprising habitable and permanent defensive structures which can also serve in battle, forming a strategic defensive infrastructure. The second is establishing military outposts and guard houses on stilts, to widen the area of defense. The former are concentrated on nine islands and reefs including Spratly Island and Southwest Cay. The living conditions in these bases are reasonably comfortable, so more soldiers are stationed there.

*The islands of Spratly and Namyit are the core defensive strongholds of the Vietnamese army in the South China Sea*.

Vietnam has 2,200 soldiers stationed in the Spratlys mainly armed with guns, tanks, anti-tank missiles and dynamic armed helicopters, but they do not have any ground-to-ship missiles, due to the complicated support system and permanent firing structure that they require which none of the islands can facilitate.

A photo set featured in the Hanoi-based Vietnam Pictorial shows nine of the main nine islands and reefs administered by Vietnam have 23mm anti-aircraft guns; six of them have 37mm anti-aircraft guns, five have 85mm cannons and two of them have 122mm howitzers and 130mm cannons; six of the islands have Russian made T-54/55 medium tanks, four have the Russian-made PT-76 amphibious light tank, totaling around 120 guns and 60 medium tanks. On Spratly Island and Namyit Island the Vietnamese army have a 122mm howitzer battalion, an 85mm cannon company, an 130mm cannon company, two to three 23mm or 37mm anti-aircraft gun companies and a tank company. Military helicopters can take off from and land on at least five of the islands and reefs.

From this configuration it is likely that *when attacked Vietnam will make use of its large-caliber artillery to engage enemy warships in a long-range gunfight.* The 130mm cannon has a range of 27 kilometers, a similar range to the gun on China's destroyers. The range of guns deployed by the Vietnamese troops is in preparation for long-distance, medium range and close-range defense against landing troops. To take Spratly as an example, the island has four guns with a range of over 16km, 21 guns with a range over 14km, 31 guns with a range of over 10km and 48 guns with a range of over 2km. The army can also make use of its helicopters to launch air attacks.

In addition to the nine larger islands, the Vietnamese army also has guard posts stationed at islands and reefs that are more vulnerable to attack, but these usually consist of a makeshift concrete or shacks on stilts with soldiers only armed with individual weapons.

Several special units of the Vietnamese army are said to have trained in amphibious warfare in the Spratlys and the 126th rapid response battalion, set up in 2005, is said to be Vietnam's answer to the US Navy Seals.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> uh........look like some problem pop up , gotta go now :v
> And no , i quite sure that we may producing ammunition for them and performing maintance but we havent manfacture any type of heavy arty system , last time i check we only produce barrel for the AGS 17 and the 61-K anti aircraft



Are you sure about that? Vietnam produces the 105, 122, 130 and 152 mm guns as I understand.



Viet said:


> @Carlosa and bros, _here is a Chinese report on our defence in the south china sea. interesting insight._
> 
> South China Sea rivals compared by Global Times｜WantChinaTimes.com
> 
> *Vietnam: Military build-up on nine islands*
> 
> From the early 1970s to the early 1990s, Vietnam occupied 29 islands and reefs in the Spratlys and strengthened their defensive infrastructure in the region.
> 
> Vietnam has used two defensive strategies. The first is to set up defensive positions comprising habitable and permanent defensive structures which can also serve in battle, forming a strategic defensive infrastructure. The second is establishing military outposts and guard houses on stilts, to widen the area of defense. The former are concentrated on nine islands and reefs including Spratly Island and Southwest Cay. The living conditions in these bases are reasonably comfortable, so more soldiers are stationed there.
> 
> *The islands of Spratly and Namyit are the core defensive strongholds of the Vietnamese army in the South China Sea*.
> 
> Vietnam has 2,200 soldiers stationed in the Spratlys mainly armed with guns, tanks, anti-tank missiles and dynamic armed helicopters, but they do not have any ground-to-ship missiles, due to the complicated support system and permanent firing structure that they require which none of the islands can facilitate.
> 
> A photo set featured in the Hanoi-based Vietnam Pictorial shows nine of the main nine islands and reefs administered by Vietnam have 23mm anti-aircraft guns; six of them have 37mm anti-aircraft guns, five have 85mm cannons and two of them have 122mm howitzers and 130mm cannons; six of the islands have Russian made T-54/55 medium tanks, four have the Russian-made PT-76 amphibious light tank, totaling around 120 guns and 60 medium tanks. On Spratly Island and Namyit Island the Vietnamese army have a 122mm howitzer battalion, an 85mm cannon company, an 130mm cannon company, two to three 23mm or 37mm anti-aircraft gun companies and a tank company. Military helicopters can take off from and land on at least five of the islands and reefs.
> 
> From this configuration it is likely that *when attacked Vietnam will make use of its large-caliber artillery to engage enemy warships in a long-range gunfight.* The 130mm cannon has a range of 27 kilometers, a similar range to the gun on China's destroyers. The range of guns deployed by the Vietnamese troops is in preparation for long-distance, medium range and close-range defense against landing troops. To take Spratly as an example, the island has four guns with a range of over 16km, 21 guns with a range over 14km, 31 guns with a range of over 10km and 48 guns with a range of over 2km. The army can also make use of its helicopters to launch air attacks.
> 
> In addition to the nine larger islands, the Vietnamese army also has guard posts stationed at islands and reefs that are more vulnerable to attack, but these usually consist of a makeshift concrete or shacks on stilts with soldiers only armed with individual weapons.
> 
> Several special units of the Vietnamese army are said to have trained in amphibious warfare in the Spratlys and the 126th rapid response battalion, set up in 2005, is said to be Vietnam's answer to the US Navy Seals.



Very good report man. 

The way things are going now, the EXTRA and ACCURA are going to replace / complement the long range guns since those are not accurate enough.

I'm not clear what they mean by dynamic armed helicopters, sounds interesting.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Are you sure about that? Vietnam produces the 105, 122, 130 and 152 mm guns as I understand.
> 
> 
> 
> Very good report man.
> 
> The way things are going now, the EXTRA and ACCURA are going to replace / complement the long range guns since those are not accurate enough.
> 
> I'm not clear what they mean by dynamic armed helicopters, sounds interesting.


I just post the report. not sure if 100% is accurate. our navy should deploy 155mm ceasar howitzer to the islands as soon as possible. 42 km range, 6 rounds a minute, a vehicle carries 18 rounds, all of these can make the difference. such howitzer can target chinese warships at a larger distance than the current 122mm we have.

no enemy warship can survive if we concentrate artillery fire on it.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I just post the report. not sure if 100% is accurate. our navy should deploy 155mm ceasar howitzer to the islands as soon as possible. 42 km range, 6 rounds a minute, a vehicle carries 18 rounds, all of these can make the difference. such howitzer can target chinese warships at a larger distance than the current 122mm we have.
> 
> no enemy warship can´t survive if we concentrate artillery fire on it.



Caesar is too complex for the island in my opinion, EXTRA and ACCULAR are more accurate and range up to 150 km (EXTRA).


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Caesar is too *complex* for the island in my opinion, EXTRA and ACCULAR are more accurate and range up to 150 km (EXTRA).


why too complex? the army intends to acquire 108 pieces. 18 for the 1st batch delivery. if we don´t use the howitzer for island defence, what are they used for?

Việt Nam đặt mua siêu pháo Caesar 155mm của Pháp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> why too complex? the army intends to acquire 108 pieces. 18 for the 1st batch delivery. if we don´t use the howitzer for island defence, what are they used for?
> 
> Việt Nam đặt mua siêu pháo Caesar 155mm của Pháp - DVO - Báo Đất Việt



No, man, those are for the army, for the north, for the army corps. Nothing to do with the islands. The extra and accular are for the islands.

Remember that your article also said that the islands don't have anti ship missiles because of complex maintenance, etc. Its the same thing with Caesar, that thing its quite complicated to maintain, its not for an small island.

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## Viet

_ha ha ha ...it is not what is used to be._


World View: Russia and Vietnam Agree to Mutual Defense Cooperation Pact to Counter China - Breitbart







This morning’s key headlines from GenerationalDynamics.com

Vietnam buys cruise missiles from Russia to threaten China
China accuses Vietnam of ‘double-dealing’ with Russia, US
Russia and Vietnam agree to mutual defense cooperation pact to counter China
US requests access to Philippines military bases
*Vietnam buys cruise missiles from Russia to threaten China*
_




Russian media cartoon depicting friendly Russia-Vietnam relations during 1965-75, when Vietnam beat the US in the Vietnam war (RBTH)_


Vietnam has purchased 50 (3M-14E Klub) supersonic cruise missiles from Russia, to be used in its fleet of (SSK Kilo-class diesel-electric) submarines.

There are two things about this deal. First, popular wisdom says that China and Russia are allies, but Russia is supplying China’s enemy with advanced weapons. And second, the missiles can be used by Vietnam against Chinese ships and Chinese land targets. Vietnam is the first Southeast Asian nation to arm its submarine fleet with a land attack missile.

According to one analyst, the land-attack cruise missiles mark a “massive shift” advancing Vietnam’s Navy capabilities. “They’ve given themselves a much more powerful deterrent that complicates China’s strategic calculations.”

As we’ve been reporting, China has been  speeding up its military takeover of the South China Sea, using land reclamation projects to build military bases within territories that have historically belonged to other countries, particularly Vietnam and the Philippines. Vietnam and the Philippines have agreed to establish a strategic military partnership to counter China’s belligerence. Vietnam last year announced that it will be  purchasing several warships from India, and now Vietnam is taking another step, purchasing advanced cruise missiles from Russia.

The land-attack weapons are capable of precision strikes at a range of 300 km (190 miles). Beyond China’s coastal cities, potential targets are the naval base at Sanya on China’s Hainan Island, as well as any of the military bases that China is building on reclaimed land in the South China Sea. Reuters and Diplomat

*China accuses Vietnam of ‘double-dealing’ with Russia, US*

According to Chinese state media:

China doesn’t want territorial and maritime antagonism with Vietnam standing in the way of implementing [China’s regional initiatives]. Vietnam should be roped into this grand vision.

From the angle of Hanoi, the ruling communist party is unwilling and unable to go to extremes and launch head-on challenge against China over territorial claims. Exercising restraints and giving a timely handshake will ease down the tensions in the South China Sea so that it won’t risk a spillover effect affecting economic and political interests. Vietnam desires reconciliation more than China does.

Although led by communist parties, China and Vietnam lack political mutual trust. Both nations have historical animosities, but the major crux of the current distrust rests on the quandary caused by sovereignty-related issues. …
[With regard to Vietnam’s relations with Russia and the US], Hanoi is playing “double-dealer” without anyone who has its back, which might eventually put itself in danger.

*China’s concept that Vietnam might accept China’s wonderful “grand vision” and ignore China’s annexation of territories historically belonging to Vietnam is a fantasy of the highest order.* People who write to me and give me logical reasons why China’s vast military buildup does not mean that China is preparing a preemptive missile attack on the US should understand that China’s massive state of denial is as bad as that of Washington and Brussels, and leads them to believe that they can easily win a war against anyone, including the US. This is not a rational belief, but an emotional fantasy belief, which is supported by many Chinese media reports that I’ve quoted over the years.

China clearly dislikes Russia’s improved relationships with Vietnam, and accuses Russia of wanting to establish a base in Vietnam, which is probably true. In 2012, China called the relationship “unrighteous,” and rebuked Russia for preferring to cooperate with “ill-doers” over nurturing a partnership with China. However, nothing in the Vietnam-Russia relationship is likely to deter China’s accelerating military buildup in the South China Sea. Global Times (Beijing) and Jamestown

*Russia and Vietnam agree to mutual defense cooperation pact to counter China*

During the visit in early April of Russia’s prime minister Dmitry Medvedev to Hanoi, the two countries approved a draft military cooperation pact formalizing bilateral defense cooperation. Although China was not mentioned directly in the pact, it’s clear that China is the target.

From the point of view of Generational Dynamics, this is a logical turn of events. Russia and Vietnam have had a close relationship for decades, and it was Russian weapons that helped Vietnam win its war with the United States. On the other hand, Russia and China have centuries of hatreds and crisis wars between them, as do Vietnam and China. In fact, Russia and China were almost at war in the 1960s, while Vietnam and China actually were at war in the late 1970s.

The common wisdom is that Russia and China are natural allies, but nothing could be farther from the truth. It’s true that Russia and China are the two countries today that are annexing other country’s territories, as Hitler did in the late 1930s, and Russia and China support each other in the United Nations Security Council. But that relationship can be described as: “There’s honor among thieves.”

Russia recently signed a big energy deal with China to help bolster its economy, which is wracked by low oil prices and Western sanctions. However, many analysts have pointed out that this energy deal was a move of desperation by Russia, which was forced to agree to sell oil and gas to China at the lowest possible prices. So instead of being natural allies, Russia is desperately dependent on China.

Russia points outs that it is not a direct party to the territorial disputes in the South China Sea, but favors having the disputes adjudicated by the appropriate United Nations maritime courts, something that China rejects because it knows it would lose in court.

Russia’s mutual defense agreement with Vietnam appears to be an attempt to counter-balance China’s influence in the region, as well as Russia’s own extreme economic dependence on China. Jamestown and Vietnam Net and Russia Beyond the Headlines

*US requests access to Philippines military bases*

The United States has asked for access to eight military bases in the Philippines to rotate troops, aircraft, and ships, to counter China’s rapid military buildup in the South China Sea. These include bases in Subic and Clark, from which the Philippines ejected the US in 1992. Reuters

*KEYS: *Generational Dynamics, Russia, Vietnam, China, Dmitry Medvedev, Philippines


----------



## Viet

a training jet





landing on deck





infantry





repair





cleaning





1975 April 30. comparing the pictures above, the tanks are not much difference. highnoon for new battle tanks.






su-22


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## Viet

all pics from comcom

2 russian SU fighter jet trainers in a Vietnamese airport facility





2 Vietnamese Ka-28 in a maintenance facility in Crimea.





warships in ha long bay





Captain Lê Bá Hùng from the US navy to a visit in da nang.





USS Fort Worth during a visit in da nang city


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## Carlosa

@Yorozuya Hey, the mods shut down your thread in no time man.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> @Yorozuya Hey, the mods shut down your thread in no time man.



Hey you're right. It has totally disappeared. Weird!

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## KAL-EL

Viet said:


> cam ranh bay? the army shows openness. that is new.



Cam Ranh Bay should host the mighty USS Gerald R. Ford super carrier when she enters service

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## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> Cam Ranh Bay should host the mighty USS Gerald R. Ford super carrier when she enters service


yeah that will be a amazing picture. our warships will accompany you to a beach party 
should we invite the russians, too? their pacific fleet comes regulary to visit the bay.

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## KAL-EL

Viet said:


> yeah that will be a amazing picture. our warships will accompany you to a beach party
> should we invite the russians, too? their pacific fleet comes regulary to visit the bay.



Sure, why not? Invite them and we can all have one big beach party

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## Viet

welcome to vietnam!

a new transport aircraft C-295M for the airforce. specs wiki: Military transport version. Capacity for 71 troops, 48 paratroops, 27 stretchers, five 2.24 × 2.74 m (88 × 108 inches) pallets or three light vehicles.


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Hey you're right. It has totally disappeared. Weird!



You seem to have an special relationship with the mods man. 



KAL-EL said:


> Cam Ranh Bay should host the mighty USS Gerald R. Ford super carrier when she enters service



That sounds like a great idea man.

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## Viet

@Carlosa and friends: what do you think, is it time to establish naval fleets?
battle formation of a fleet: 2 kilo, 2 gepard, 4 molniya, 1 destroyer, several accompanied ships. what lacks of is the aircover by jet fighters. a cheap aircraft carrier will be the perfect choice.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa and friends: what do you think, is it time to establish naval fleets?
> battle formation of a fleet: 2 kilo, 2 gepard, 4 molniya, 1 destroyer, several accompanied ships. what lacks of is the aircover by jet fighters. a cheap aircraft carrier will be the perfect choice.



Need more frigates first. And if you want to have an small carrier, you need to have air defense frigates / destroyers.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Need more frigates first. And if you want to have an small carrier, you need to have air defense frigates / destroyers.


I wish we can print $ notes 
more pics from the Vietnam People’s Navy 60th anniversary

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I wish we can print $ notes



I would like to do that too.


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## Viet

female soldiers in wartime clothing during a victory parade, fall of Saigon 1975 April 30th.


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## Aqsuperman

We may print more money but that will cause our inflation rate go sky rocket :v 
About the air-defence for our fleet , we may have to depend on inland fighter for a while , atleast until the third pair of Gepard equip with new level air-defence systems (this will take a while :v ) and about the aircraft carrier..........even Thailand with a considerable strong economic found it hard to maintaince 1 aircraft carrier which is only able to send out helicopters ,............think about the jets-capable carrier and the cost to operate 1 ,..........make me want to cry :v 
For now this is all we get

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> We may print more money but that will cause our inflation rate go sky rocket :v
> About the air-defence for our fleet , we may have to depend on inland fighter for a while , atleast until the third pair of Gepard equip with new level air-defence systems (this will take a while :v ) and about the aircraft carrier..........even Thailand with a considerable strong economic found it hard to maintaince 1 aircraft carrier which is only able to send out helicopters ,............think about the jets-capable carrier and the cost to operate 1 ,..........make me want to cry :v
> For now this is all we get



Hey, do you know if there is something "interesting" going on at Eldad reef?


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> You seem to have an special relationship with the mods man.



As the most kind most compassionate and most friendly Viet member of this forum, the mod just want to look after me.

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## Viet

Việt Nam sản xuất súng Galil ACE và hơn thế nữa | soha.vn

translate

z111 factory with production capacity of 50,000 assault rifles a year. Vietnam buys the technology and complete assembly line for $170m from Israel last year (cheaper than Russia that demands $250m for AK-100). the factory currently speeds up the process producing additional 3,000 rifles for the September revolution parade.

besides, the Politburo approves many key projects, including short-range air defense system, missile gunship, naval cannon etc. with future outlook of the army in 10-15 years.

Galil rifle ACE 31





Galil rifle ACE 32

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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> Việt Nam sản xuất súng Galil ACE và hơn thế nữa | soha.vn
> 
> translate
> 
> z111 factory with production capacity of 50,000 assault rifles a year. Vietnam buys the technology and complete assembly line for $170m from Israel last year (cheaper than Russia that demands $250m for AK-100). the factory currently speeds up the process producing additional 3,000 rifles for the September revolution parade.
> 
> besides, the Politburo approves many key projects, including short-range air defense system, missile gunship, naval cannon etc. with future outlook of the army in 10-15 years.
> 
> Galil rifle ACE 31
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Galil rifle ACE 32



Great Choice by vietnam

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> We may print more money but that will cause our inflation rate go sky rocket :v
> About the air-defence for our fleet , we may have to depend on inland fighter for a while , atleast until the third pair of Gepard equip with new level air-defence systems (this will take a while :v ) and about the aircraft carrier..........even Thailand with a considerable strong economic found it hard to maintaince 1 aircraft carrier which is only able to send out helicopters ,............think about the jets-capable carrier and the cost to operate 1 ,..........make me want to cry :v
> For now this is all we get



The carrier its just Viet's dream (together with AEGIS destroyers).


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## Viet

_actually it is not necessarily bad when the army has sources of income outside of the state budget. BUT..._


AP
*Asia Pacific*
*On the green, Vietnam army’s capitalist streak*
*Golf course reflects rare conflict between powerful military and public's interest*
*
May 3, 2015 by Mike Ives*
AP






Visitors have their photos taken near a tank used by the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War at the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City on Wednesday, ahead of 40th anniversary celebrations Thursday of the end of the conflict. | AP

HO, CHI MINH CITY – Vietnam’s busiest airport, once a major gateway for thousands of U.S. troops headed for battle, is now the scene of a slow-burning controversy linked to the commercial clout of the country’s powerful military.

To alleviate congestion at Ho Chi Minh City’s Tan Son Nhat International Airport, top officials in the ruling Communist Party have proposed building an airport costing a whopping $15.8 billion about 40 km (25 miles) away. But some city residents and aviation experts say it makes more sense for the airport to simply expand onto some adjacent land managed by the army. They wonder why the property is being used for a new golf course.

Using the adjacent land for golf is “irrational,” said Le Trong Sanh, former head of the airport’s flight management department. “We should take back the course.”

The debate sheds light on a rarity in Vietnam: The appearance of conflict between the army’s considerable financial interests and the public’s interests.

The Vietnam People’s Army — which on Thursday celebrated its 40th anniversary of defeating the Americans — was for decades a ragtag but tenacious military that also fended off France and China in the last century. Since the Vietnam War, it has added to its portfolio a dizzying array of enterprises and subsidiaries that span construction, airport services, shipbuilding, garment manufacturing and other sectors. Two of the best-known are cellphone operator Viettel and Military Bank.

According to government estimates, military enterprises had a before-tax profit of 46 trillion dong ($2.14 billion) in 2014. But analysts say the enterprises operate to some degree outside the Communist Party’s control, and that the exact scope of their commercial dealings is unknown.

The army declined a request for an interview and did not respond to emailed questions about its commercial activities sent by reporters.

Many armies around the world have corporate portfolios, and Southeast Asia’s are no exception. Andrew Wood, the head of Asia country risk analysis for BMI Research, an international consultancy, said army enterprises play a smaller role in Vietnam’s domestic economy than they do in military-dominated Myanmar, but a larger one than such enterprises play in China and Indonesia.

Viettel earned nearly $2 billion in pre-tax profits last year, or 85 percent of all profits reported by military enterprises, the state-run Zing News quoted the company’s general director, Nguyen Manh Hung, as saying in January. Viettel has also expanded to nine markets across Asia, Africa and Latin America.

Many Vietnamese see military-linked companies as having more integrity than other government institutions, particularly state-owned enterprises. Financial scandals are common in Vietnam, but they rarely involve military personnel.

“This bank belongs to the military, so people trust it more” than other Vietnamese banks, said Vo Van Tam, a Ho Chi Minh City real estate developer, one recent afternoon at a branch of the bank. Tam said he had a Viettel mobile phone subscription for the same reason.

Vietnam’s banking sector has some of Asia’s highest levels of bad debt. But Military Bank is among the sector’s best performers and appears to be a relatively conservative manager of nonperforming loans, said Peter Sorensen, managing director at ABB Merchant Banking, a Hanoi-based consulting firm.

Vietnam is one of 12 countries in the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a U.S.-led free trade group that is currently being negotiated. American officials have said the TPP would likely include provisions designed to force government-owned enterprises to be more transparent.

Sorensen said military enterprises may feel pressure in the long term from that and other trade deals Vietnam is negotiating this year. But he doubted whether any specific effects would be clear in the short term.

In 2007, the Communist Party’s powerful Central Committee ordered the military’s 140 declared companies to divest from sectors that were not directly related to national security. That number declined to 98 within two years, according to an analysis of public records by BMI Research. But otherwise there have been few tangible results, said Carl Thayer, a Vietnam expert in Australia who has studied the army since the 1980s.

“Over time the government tried to push the military out of purely commercial activities,” he said. “It looks like the impetus has died off.”

Le Thi Thanh Hoa, who sells birds on a road beside the new golf course adjacent to the airport, said the army is the landlord for her business and dozens of others in the area.

“Doing business with the army is good because its prices are stable,” she said, adding that she has paid the same rent — 30 million dong ($1,389) per month — for about five years. “The army’s very powerful, and it controls this whole area.”

The Tan Son Nhat Golf Course is about half a kilometer away, on the other side of a security checkpoint. Its focal point is its clubhouse, the Him Lam Palace, a palatial building with marbled floors and an eight-tiered, gold-plated chandelier in its lobby.

On a recent weekday afternoon, workers were installing lighting and hoisting palm trees on the course as a smattering of golfers tried their luck at the tees and putting greens. A plane thundered by every few minutes on the nearby runway.

Him Lam, the private company whose logo is on the course’s clubhouse, has “significant” Ministry of Defense contacts and participates in several large-scale projects on military-owned properties, an American diplomat wrote in 2006, according to a U.S. Embassy cable released by WikiLeaks. The cable said Duong Cong Minh, who is now Him Lam’s board chairman, told the diplomat that land and property rents are among the ministry’s primary sources of “off-budget” revenue.

The airport currently handles 20 million passengers a year and is projected to max out at its design capacity of 25 million by 2017. Vietnam’s transport minister, Dinh La Thang, has said building a new airport is the country’s only feasible option because expanding the airport would increase traffic, pollution and the potential for air accidents while requiring the relocation of 140,000 families that occupy 541 hectares (1,336 acres) of adjacent land.

But Sanh, the airport’s former flight manager, said building another runway and terminal and some parking lots next door could boost the capacity to 45 million passengers a year. He added that the price tag of a new airport — nearly a tenth of Vietnam’s $184 billion gross domestic product — would be too big a financial strain.

Last year he and a retired military pilot, Mai Trong Tuan, sent a letter to Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung outlining that position. They are still waiting to hear back.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Việt Nam sản xuất súng Galil ACE và hơn thế nữa | soha.vn
> besides, the Politburo approves many key projects, including short-range air defense system, missile gunship, naval cannon etc. with future outlook of the army in 10-15 years.



What missile gunship and naval cannon?



Viet said:


> _actually it is not necessarily bad when the army has sources of income outside of the state budget. BUT..._
> 
> 
> AP
> *Asia Pacific*
> *On the green, Vietnam army’s capitalist streak*
> *Golf course reflects rare conflict between powerful military and public's interest*
> *
> May 3, 2015 by Mike Ives*
> AP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Visitors have their photos taken near a tank used by the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War at the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City on Wednesday, ahead of 40th anniversary celebrations Thursday of the end of the conflict. | AP
> 
> HO, CHI MINH CITY – Vietnam’s busiest airport, once a major gateway for thousands of U.S. troops headed for battle, is now the scene of a slow-burning controversy linked to the commercial clout of the country’s powerful military.
> 
> To alleviate congestion at Ho Chi Minh City’s Tan Son Nhat International Airport, top officials in the ruling Communist Party have proposed building an airport costing a whopping $15.8 billion about 40 km (25 miles) away. But some city residents and aviation experts say it makes more sense for the airport to simply expand onto some adjacent land managed by the army. They wonder why the property is being used for a new golf course.
> 
> Using the adjacent land for golf is “irrational,” said Le Trong Sanh, former head of the airport’s flight management department. “We should take back the course.”
> 
> The debate sheds light on a rarity in Vietnam: The appearance of conflict between the army’s considerable financial interests and the public’s interests.
> 
> The Vietnam People’s Army — which on Thursday celebrated its 40th anniversary of defeating the Americans — was for decades a ragtag but tenacious military that also fended off France and China in the last century. Since the Vietnam War, it has added to its portfolio a dizzying array of enterprises and subsidiaries that span construction, airport services, shipbuilding, garment manufacturing and other sectors. Two of the best-known are cellphone operator Viettel and Military Bank.
> 
> According to government estimates, military enterprises had a before-tax profit of 46 trillion dong ($2.14 billion) in 2014. But analysts say the enterprises operate to some degree outside the Communist Party’s control, and that the exact scope of their commercial dealings is unknown.
> 
> The army declined a request for an interview and did not respond to emailed questions about its commercial activities sent by reporters.
> 
> Many armies around the world have corporate portfolios, and Southeast Asia’s are no exception. Andrew Wood, the head of Asia country risk analysis for BMI Research, an international consultancy, said army enterprises play a smaller role in Vietnam’s domestic economy than they do in military-dominated Myanmar, but a larger one than such enterprises play in China and Indonesia.
> 
> Viettel earned nearly $2 billion in pre-tax profits last year, or 85 percent of all profits reported by military enterprises, the state-run Zing News quoted the company’s general director, Nguyen Manh Hung, as saying in January. Viettel has also expanded to nine markets across Asia, Africa and Latin America.
> 
> Many Vietnamese see military-linked companies as having more integrity than other government institutions, particularly state-owned enterprises. Financial scandals are common in Vietnam, but they rarely involve military personnel.
> 
> “This bank belongs to the military, so people trust it more” than other Vietnamese banks, said Vo Van Tam, a Ho Chi Minh City real estate developer, one recent afternoon at a branch of the bank. Tam said he had a Viettel mobile phone subscription for the same reason.
> 
> Vietnam’s banking sector has some of Asia’s highest levels of bad debt. But Military Bank is among the sector’s best performers and appears to be a relatively conservative manager of nonperforming loans, said Peter Sorensen, managing director at ABB Merchant Banking, a Hanoi-based consulting firm.
> 
> Vietnam is one of 12 countries in the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a U.S.-led free trade group that is currently being negotiated. American officials have said the TPP would likely include provisions designed to force government-owned enterprises to be more transparent.
> 
> Sorensen said military enterprises may feel pressure in the long term from that and other trade deals Vietnam is negotiating this year. But he doubted whether any specific effects would be clear in the short term.
> 
> In 2007, the Communist Party’s powerful Central Committee ordered the military’s 140 declared companies to divest from sectors that were not directly related to national security. That number declined to 98 within two years, according to an analysis of public records by BMI Research. But otherwise there have been few tangible results, said Carl Thayer, a Vietnam expert in Australia who has studied the army since the 1980s.
> 
> “Over time the government tried to push the military out of purely commercial activities,” he said. “It looks like the impetus has died off.”
> 
> Le Thi Thanh Hoa, who sells birds on a road beside the new golf course adjacent to the airport, said the army is the landlord for her business and dozens of others in the area.
> 
> “Doing business with the army is good because its prices are stable,” she said, adding that she has paid the same rent — 30 million dong ($1,389) per month — for about five years. “The army’s very powerful, and it controls this whole area.”
> 
> The Tan Son Nhat Golf Course is about half a kilometer away, on the other side of a security checkpoint. Its focal point is its clubhouse, the Him Lam Palace, a palatial building with marbled floors and an eight-tiered, gold-plated chandelier in its lobby.
> 
> On a recent weekday afternoon, workers were installing lighting and hoisting palm trees on the course as a smattering of golfers tried their luck at the tees and putting greens. A plane thundered by every few minutes on the nearby runway.
> 
> Him Lam, the private company whose logo is on the course’s clubhouse, has “significant” Ministry of Defense contacts and participates in several large-scale projects on military-owned properties, an American diplomat wrote in 2006, according to a U.S. Embassy cable released by WikiLeaks. The cable said Duong Cong Minh, who is now Him Lam’s board chairman, told the diplomat that land and property rents are among the ministry’s primary sources of “off-budget” revenue.
> 
> The airport currently handles 20 million passengers a year and is projected to max out at its design capacity of 25 million by 2017. Vietnam’s transport minister, Dinh La Thang, has said building a new airport is the country’s only feasible option because expanding the airport would increase traffic, pollution and the potential for air accidents while requiring the relocation of 140,000 families that occupy 541 hectares (1,336 acres) of adjacent land.
> 
> But Sanh, the airport’s former flight manager, said building another runway and terminal and some parking lots next door could boost the capacity to 45 million passengers a year. He added that the price tag of a new airport — nearly a tenth of Vietnam’s $184 billion gross domestic product — would be too big a financial strain.
> 
> Last year he and a retired military pilot, Mai Trong Tuan, sent a letter to Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung outlining that position. They are still waiting to hear back.



I had read that article, looks like the army wants to keep the golf course and make the country spend billions in a new airport. It seems like they are calling the shots.


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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> What missile gunship and naval cannon?


I quite sure the ship will be the Monilya class with 16 Kh-35UV but the Naval cannon maybe the AK-176 and Ak-630 ? :v


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> I quite sure the ship will be the Monilya class with 16 Kh-35UV but the Naval cannon maybe the AK-176 and Ak-630 ? :v



But the AK-176 and Ak-630 are not produced in Vietnam or are they planning to do that?


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> But the AK-176 and Ak-630 are not produced in Vietnam or are they planning to do that?




That article did not mention any naval gun. It only talks about weapons that VN have previously produced or is currently producing. So the short range SAM = manpads, infantry rifle = Galil, missile boat = Molniya, gunboat = TT400TP.

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## Soryu

Viet said:


> Việt Nam sản xuất súng Galil ACE và hơn thế nữa | soha.vn
> 
> translate
> 
> z111 factory with production capacity of 50,000 assault rifles a year. Vietnam buys the technology and complete assembly line for $170m from Israel last year (cheaper than Russia that demands $250m for AK-100). the factory currently speeds up the process producing additional 3,000 rifles for the September revolution parade.
> 
> besides, the Politburo approves many key projects, including short-range air defense system, missile gunship, naval cannon etc. with future outlook of the army in 10-15 years.
> 
> Galil rifle ACE 31



I'm not expert in this, but I still think Galil will be for export and serve in some unit, but not for full army's standard rifle.
Best things that we got from the deal with Israel are technology and assembly line to produce modern rifle with cheaper price compare to Russian offer.
AK series are still best choice, old version has lacked of ergonomic and flexibility, but new and modified version can fix that flaw.

Since Russian armed forces made their modernized progressing faster, so we can get more old stuff from them with more cheaper prices than now. T-72, T-90, BMP, BTR, Ak-103, 105, even AK-12 ... can come in near future.



Carlosa said:


> I had read that article, looks like the army wants to keep the golf course and make the country spend billions in a new airport. It seems like they are calling the shots.



There's reason for Government and Top Brass go with that decision, those golf course also serves as *vertical height clearance *of Tan Son Nhat airport, so if we use those space to expland airport size, we will need more space, need spend more much money for compensation
.
And also, TSN airport has some sections for military use, so best choice may that we should build big new modern and great access routes airport.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> There's reason for Government and Top Brass go with that decision, those golf course also serves as *vertical height clearance *of Tan Son Nhat airport, so if we use those space to expland airport size, we will need more space, need spend more much money for compensation
> .
> And also, TSN airport has some sections for military use, so best choice may that we should build big new modern and great access routes airport.



Ohh ok, I didn't know about that. Makes sense.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> What missile gunship and naval cannon?


the article does not reveal details, it can be the stuffs as yoru and others say: molniya corvette and AK ship guns.
I guess once the drafted "military cooperation pact" with russia is signed, we get technology transfer for AK and other toys. the russians are a bit hesitant because they don´t want to anger the chinese too much.

on the other side, russia is keen to keep the balance of powers in the region. she has no interest if china dominates the region, least the south china sea. helping vietnam to counter china is part of the game. if china controls the important sea lanes, the sky, what would happen to the russia pacific fleet? the strategic bombers? their fate would be sealed.

Russia’s Game in Southeast Asia | The Jamestown Foundation



Soryu said:


> I'm not expert in this, but I still think* Galil will be for export* and serve in some unit, but not for full army's standard rifle.
> Best things that we got from the deal with Israel are technology and assembly line to produce modern rifle with cheaper price compare to Russian offer.
> AK series are still best choice, old version has lacked of ergonomic and flexibility, but new and modified version can fix that flaw.
> 
> Since Russian armed forces made their modernized progressing faster, so we can get more old stuff from them with more cheaper prices than now. T-72, T-90, BMP, BTR, Ak-103, 105, even AK-12 ... can come in near future.
> 
> 
> 
> There's reason for Government and Top Brass go with that decision, those golf course also serves as *vertical height clearance *of Tan Son Nhat airport, so if we use those space to expland airport size, we will need more space, need spend more much money for compensation
> .
> And also, TSN airport has some sections for military use, so best choice may that we should build big new modern and great access routes airport.


yes, once our demand is satisfied, it is planned to export Galil assualt rifles to other friendly countries.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the article does not reveal details, it can be the stuffs as yoru and others say: molniya corvette and AK ship guns.
> I guess once the drafted "military cooperation pact" with russia is signed, we get technology transfer for AK and other toys. the russians are a bit hesitant because they don´t want to anger the chinese too much.
> 
> on the other side, russia is keen to keep the balance of powers in the region. she has no interest if china dominates the region, least the south china sea. helping vietnam to counter china is part of the game. if china controls the important sea lanes, the sky, what would happen to the russia pacific fleet? the strategic bombers? their fate would be sealed.
> 
> Russia’s Game in Southeast Asia | The Jamestown Foundation
> 
> 
> yes, once our demand is satisfied, it is planned to export Galil assualt rifles to other friendly countries.



I did hear once from a source that Vietnam would like to build under license those 2 naval guns AK-176 and Ak-630, so it could be that.

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## Viet

soldiers in wartime clothing during the victory parade, 40 years ending the vietnam war.

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## BoQ77

During my duration of ban ( 2 weeks after other 3 weeks ), I read the news from other forum,
They estimated that there'll come Coast Guard ships with displacement from 3,500-4,000 ton for VCG this year.
It could be based on ASW platform.

My time here was promoted to be precious because of several bans for nothing. I am enjoying my precious.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> During my duration of ban ( 2 weeks after other 3 weeks ), I read the news from other forum,
> They estimated that there'll come Coast Guard ships with displacement from *3,500-4,000 ton* for VCG this year.
> It could be based on ASW platform.
> 
> My time here was promoted to be precious because of several bans for nothing. I am enjoying my precious.


why were you banned? anyway welcome back.
do you have more info about this new class, 3,500-4,000 tons vessels for VCG?

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> why were you banned? anyway welcome back.
> do you have more info about this new class, 3,500-4,000 tons vessels for VCG?



Something like Krivak-III class. Or similar to Talwar-class

Ban? Hu Songshan consider my comment "Vietnam is the true friend of China" in the thread "Who is the true friend of China" as trolling. 2 weeks for that ( worse, this 2 weeks ban is 1 day after another 2 weeks ban - because posting graphic image of living people - not die, not naked, not blood ). Am I really so dangerous to them that they want me to be away for a while from this forum?

@Yorozuya

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Something like Krivak-III class. Or similar to *Talwar-class*
> 
> Ban? Hu Songshan consider my comment "Vietnam is the true friend of China" in the thread "Who is the true friend of China" as trolling. 2 weeks for that ( worse, this 2 weeks ban is 1 day after another 2 weeks ban - because posting graphic image of living people - not die, not naked, not blood ). Am I really so dangerous to them that they want me to be away for a while from this forum?
> 
> @Yorozuya


Talwar-class? nice.
no wonder you got banned for "Vietnam is the true friend of China". because nobody in the world believes it.

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## NiceGuy

Some 'funny pics', death pilot from Su-22 accident go home in louis vuitton bag


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## BoQ77



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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> Something like Krivak-III class. Or similar to Talwar-class
> 
> Ban? Hu Songshan consider my comment "Vietnam is the true friend of China" in the thread "Who is the true friend of China" as trolling. 2 weeks for that ( worse, this 2 weeks ban is 1 day after another 2 weeks ban - because posting graphic image of living people - not die, not naked, not blood ). Am I really so dangerous to them that they want me to be away for a while from this forum?
> 
> @Yorozuya



I can't help you explain why you got banned because I can't even understand my past bannings. My last ban was for 1 month, and the reason given by a mod was for one post that has funny pictures of fake products. I thought we get 3 warnings first before a 1 week ban but I just get instant 1 month ban for a single post. So I can't help you explain what the policy is. We cannot complain about Mods action here because we can also get banned for that. You can only talk to webmaster in the GHQ section.

I think Hu Songshan looks after me because I'm here to spread the message of peace and friendship. It must be the Japanese mod that is banning me in this section.

Now I have to make a post on topic article otherwise I get banned for offtopic:

Vietnam Military Strength

According to the global firepower site, Viet Nam is ranked #21 for this year. Hopefully, the Viet military will modernize more quickly to climb further up the rank so that we can have more internet bragging rights.



NiceGuy said:


> Some 'funny pics', death pilot from Su-22 accident go home in louis vuitton bag



What were they thinking?

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## Aqsuperman

Ok before any make some comment about that bag , that is his family will , not the Armed Force decison , comcom have an article about how stupid "lều báo" these days . Read it and you will see that the above picture is nothing more than a trick to increase view . The pilot corpse were receive with full military honor and then cremated (after that the family , not the Armed Force , will decide on how to bring his remain back to his home , all expense paid by the Armed Force ) Two officers above are his comrade want to accompany their fallen comrade to his final rest , even on transport , out nation flag still cover that bag , any intend to compare them to other nations fallen troops service need to check the economic culture and familiy decison before make an rash comment

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## NiceGuy

Aqsuperman said:


> Ok before any make some comment about that bag , that is his family will , not the Armed Force decison , comcom have an article about how stupid "lều báo" these days . Read it and you will see that the above picture is nothing more than a trick to increase view . The pilot corpse were receive with full military honor and then cremated (after that the family , not the Armed Force , will decide on how to bring his remain back to his home , all expense paid by the Armed Force ) Two officers above are his comrade want to accompany their fallen comrade to his final rest , even on transport , out nation flag still cover that bag , any intend to compare them to other nations fallen troops service need to check the economic culture and familiy decison before make an rash comment


Dude, thats a nice, expensive Loui vuitton bag, I only expect an old mat for me when I die for our country


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Talwar-class? nice.
> no wonder you got banned for "Vietnam is the true friend of China". because nobody in the world believes it.



Is there a Korean ship visiting Danang?

Today I went to a shopping center here and there were 20 or 30 Korean naval officers busily shopping around.


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## Aqsuperman

good  hope that you got a heart attack and VN will have a better future , If even Vietnamese wont use the brain on its own country affair what good is that to correct other ? you want to run around lecturing the neighbor about safety when your kids burn down the house ? is that what you expect ? Oh dear lord annd i keep wonder why back then there was simply too many terrible crap happpen in Binh Duong in such a short time , now I see such a live example


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Hey you're right. It has totally disappeared. Weird!



I think your Viet / chinese friendship thread was closed (and deleted on top of everything) because of the posting from @gambit which made the chinese members look really bad.
That says a lot about how this forum is run.

By the way, how come I had never ever seen a post from @gambit in the Viet thread?
I understand that gambit comes from one particular political direction, but the thread has people from all directions. I think @gambit could make a very nice contribution here.

Any input on that from the people that have been here longer than me and probably know better what's going on?

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Is there a Korean ship visiting Danang?
> 
> Today I went to a shopping center here and there were 20 or 30 Korean naval officers busily shopping around.



Maybe not. But tourism.
Tell me, how to start a plan to move house to Da Nang?













Carlosa said:


> I think your Viet / chinese friendship thread was closed (and deleted on top of everything) because of the posting from @gambit which made the chinese members look really bad.
> That says a lot about how this forum is run.
> 
> By the way, how come I had never ever seen a post from @gambit in the Viet thread?
> I understand that gambit comes from one particular political direction, but the thread has people from all directions. I think @gambit could make a very nice contribution here.
> 
> Any input on that from the people that have been here longer than me and probably know better what's going on?



I was banned because saying "Vietnam is the true friend of China" . Reason : trolling. LOL

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I think your Viet / chinese friendship thread was closed (and deleted on top of everything) because of the posting from @gambit which made the chinese members look really bad.
> That says a lot about how this forum is run.
> 
> By the way, how come I had never ever seen a post from @gambit in the Viet thread?
> I understand that gambit comes from one particular political direction, but the thread has people from all directions. I think @gambit could make a very nice contribution here.
> 
> Any input on that from the people that have been here longer than me and probably know better what's going on?



But gambit didn't say anything wrong or offensive in that thread. There were even 1 or 2 Chinese members that were contributing sincerely. About 6-7 other Chinese members started trolling and behaving bad but I thought that was normal just like any other threads in this section. I didn't even report them so I don't know why the whole thread was deleted. Strange.

Also I don't think @gambit has Vietnamese citizenship and couldn't cared less about Russian weapons, maybe that's why he doesn't post here. I don't know. But he is expert in western weapons so it would be nice if he gives his inputs here since VN is buying more western.

P.S. After I graduate, I hope I can find a job in Danang... easy access to clean beach everyday.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> But gambit didn't say anything wrong or offensive in that thread. There were even 1 or 2 Chinese members that were contributing sincerely. About 6-7 other Chinese members started trolling and behaving bad but I thought that was normal just like any other threads in this section. I didn't even report them so I don't know why the whole thread was deleted. Strange.
> 
> Also I don't think @gambit has Vietnamese citizenship and couldn't cared less about Russian weapons, maybe that's why he doesn't post here. I don't know. But he is expert in western weapons so it would be nice if he gives his inputs here since VN is buying more western.



What gambit said was totally correct, definitely not his fault.

Gambit has US citizenship, but anyway, he is also a Vietnamese. This thread is about the defense of Vietnam regardless of the political color of the country. These are also his people.

I think it would be very nice if he comes here sometimes.



BoQ77 said:


> Maybe not. But tourism.
> Tell me, how to start a plan to move house to Da Nang?



These are not tourists man. I'm talking at least 20 Korean naval officers in their uniform, all in just one place. It has to be something going on.

First you need to come to Danang to explore man, you need to check things here, in what area you would to live, etc, etc. That's the first step. I'll help you.

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## Aqsuperman

oh right surely they are just like me  , if you mean they cant worry about their own problem first but still run outside burning all foreign flag , warehouse , company in sight under the pretext of "protecting the Country"  that what you get for not make sure your own blood brother and sister not get all the info first ? and is that sound pretty familiar to somebody idea "Talk to the Chinese first , leave the burning looting here for us , if you intend to lecture us , you a coward " ? trust me when i said you just like them from head to toes  And while i know that your brain cant even work properly but "only talk tough to Vietnamese people and only dare lecturing to Vietnamese people and only dare lecturing to Vietnamese people but you're too scared to talk with the Chinese people." ? oh my god that just simply epic :v Surely im not part of VPA (so are you) but atleast i do try to make sure our younger generation know all the info first , not misleading piecemeal info that can turn the entire leaders and owners of future VN into "keyboard heroes" ...........and tell you the truth im failing on that  

Let just even look about the fallen pilot cremated corpse above , all I said is the full info about it and then "certain guy" jump in and require me to go other place and lecture other if i dont then im a coward............meh i even 3 millions dongs paycheck per month (that is if i even have one) wont be enough for any guy to handle this lvl crap


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Is there a *Korean *ship visiting Danang?
> 
> Today I went to a shopping center here and there were 20 or 30 Korean naval officers busily shopping around.


not in the news. but the japanese coast guard vessel Yashima with 130 crew members will visit da nang from May 10 to 14th. all as part of increased cooperation between the coast guards.

and as for koreans, HEY hey hey why don´t you stage a kimchi beach party with them? 
don´t forget to post photos here.

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## BoQ77

Deputy Defence Minister welcomes US guests
PANO - Wednesday, May 06, 2015, 21:0 (GMT+7)
PANO – Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Minister of National Defence, received a delegation of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the US House of Representatives, led by Chairman of its Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific Matt Salmon, in Hanoi on May 5th.





_Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh and Mr. Matt Salmon
_
At the reception, the Vietnamese host highly valued results of the Vietnam-US defence cooperation over the past time, especially in surmounting consequences left by the war, adding that Vietnam hopes to get more assistance in this field from the US in particular and the international community in general.

General Vinh also suggested that the US House Foreign Affairs Committee further contribute to strengthening the bilateral relationship, including defence cooperation.


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> oh right surely they are just like me  , if you mean they cant worry about their own problem first but still run outside burning all foreign flag , warehouse , company in sight under the pretext of "protecting the Country"  that what you get for not make sure your own blood brother and sister not get all the info first ? and is that sound pretty familiar to somebody idea "Talk to the Chinese first , leave the burning looting here for us , if you intend to lecture us , you a coward " ? trust me when i said you just like them from head to toes  And while i know that your brain cant even work properly but "only talk tough to Vietnamese people and only dare lecturing to Vietnamese people and only dare lecturing to Vietnamese people but you're too scared to talk with the Chinese people." ? oh my god that just simply epic :v Surely im not part of VPA (so are you) but atleast i do try to make sure our younger generation know all the info first , not misleading piecemeal info that can turn the entire leaders and owners of future VN into "keyboard heroes" ...........and tell you the truth im failing on that
> 
> Let just even look about the fallen pilot cremated corpse above , all I said is the full info about it and then "certain guy" jump in and require me to go other place and lecture other if i dont then im a coward............meh i even 3 millions dongs paycheck per month (that is if i even have one) wont be enough for any guy to handle this lvl crap



So you are saying that you've come here to PDF to "inform us all the info" and teach us the truth? Not just that, but you're here to teach the younger generation?

First of all, you don't know any of us old PDF members here and you've just joined recently. Yet you start to brag that your are here to educate us? Most of us might even be older than you yet you still open your big mouth about teaching us?

You once said you're still a university student so a lot of the members here are probably older than you. Dont you think it's silly to have that arrogant attitude that you're here to teach the other Vietnamese members?

Secondly, I'm most likely older than you as well. I'm currently studying for a post-graduate degree. The way you talk sounds like you are just a first year University student fresh from high school. And I wonder what you are studying since you are so confident in insulting me as not being able to use my brain? I guess you are studying in Business Marketing that's why you like to brag about yourself, am I right?

So lastly, don't assume that we members here don't know anything and that we are like those Binh Duong rioters. Some members here might have some fun on this forum but it doesnt mean that we don't know anything. All of us could be older than you with more knowledge about Vietnamese politics and the outside world so stop acting like you are our teacher when you are probably only a first year University student studying for some degree like business marketing.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> What gambit said was totally correct, definitely not his fault.
> 
> Gambit has US citizenship, but anyway, he is also a Vietnamese. This thread is about the defense of Vietnam regardless of the political color of the country. These are also his people.
> 
> I think it would be very nice if he comes here sometimes.


Gambit once answered me "Đẻ ở Sài Gòn" means he was born in Sai Gon.
He's brainy middle age man, maybe around 50.

Southerner who fled aboard always hate communism, and hate China communism much more than Vietnam communism.

Love his knowledgeable posts.


> These are not tourists man. I'm talking at least 20 Korean naval officers in their uniform, all in just one place. It has to be something going on.
> 
> First you need to come to Danang to explore man, you need to check things here, in what area you would to live, etc, etc. That's the first step. I'll help you.



RoK always support Vietnam in secret. No one know exactly when they provided Vietnam 03 ships for Coast Guard but they were there to confront China oil rig escort last year.

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## Soryu

Aqsuperman said:


> good  hope that you got a heart attack and VN will have a better future , If even Vietnamese wont use the brain on its own country affair what good is that to correct other ? you want to run around lecturing the neighbor about safety when your kids burn down the house ? is that what you expect ? Oh dear lord annd i keep wonder why back then there was simply too many terrible crap happpen in Binh Duong in such a short time , now I see such a live example



Mate, Niceguy is funny-all-times guy, I don't agree with his comment, but he was not kind of stupid.
I don't understand why you bring up Binh Duong riot !?



> Those Binh Duong rioters and protesters only talk tough inside the country but they are scared of foreigners and will never dare to go out fight in the SCS. It's just like you, only talk tough to Vietnamese people and only dare lecturing to Vietnamese people but you're too scared to talk with the Chinese people.
> 
> Lucky the VPA only accept brave soldiers while they let the big mouth coward do the low level tasks.



Serious, Did you think BinhDuong and HCM city riots were because anti-China actions !?

Maybe at begin with small group for some promotion purposes, but after that, it's uncontrol crowd of worker, gangster, unemployed young buffalo, poor worker ... they want to be lazy when they had chance, and get free stuff or rob it, if they had chance, so that's what happened, nothing relate to patriotism or anti-China.


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## Aqsuperman

As i said.........simply faling  i never said im here to educate anyone , im just here to supply (spell is s-u-p-p-l-y if your brain have trouble reading , tough to grow i presume  ) not teach not lecture not even have any word about above-under relationship here stop putting words into my mourth , people can read my comment , man up and stop acting like a loser ) All i do is make sure other have full infomation not piecemeal misleading info like that cremated pilot corpse above ( is that that hard for you to accept ? make sure = lecture , teach ? ) , but you always seem the problem kid yoru no matter how old are you , you cant simply take in infomation , all you can do is keep blah blah blah about old about membership about i cant post info right here because "that is bragging" about how bragging i am so what the hell i am bragging ? simply speak out the truth and im called "bragging" ? arrogant ? i post the info and that it , you jump right in and ask me to go lecture other non-Vietnam then what the hell is that call ? polite ? or simply a distinctive trait of buffalo kid or keyboard heroes ? judge ? i never judge anyone before any "keyboard heroes" judge me first , look around you ? im new here i know it and i join this forum just to discuss military but remember how many time you talking crap to me when i dont even want to talk to you , you have a problem about attention point ? you will need treatmeant fast because you cant even become a security guard with that crappy attitude . And finally oh plz now you bring up my professional and age ? what the hell does it relate to this subject ? you are that desperate to prove that you are better than me at something ? No Mr.Sore Loser im a Junior Accountant in training for the final exam , pass it and i got a job right away , happy ? so how old are you ? 30 ? 60 ? 90 ? 

And Soryu that heart attack comment is for the Yoru comment that he already deleted , im not talking about Niceguy so sorry in advance Niceguy if you feel offended :3 the truth im surely not the best human in the word but i do know what the different between a normal guy and a loser always looking for a fight , i contribute to people here what i know ( and again : not lecture not teach not bragging ) and I NEVER INSULT ANYONE FIRST , ask any around here , Mr Sore Loser already delete his comment but surely there are people here do know what type of tongue he say to me first , I respect everyone here but about yoru I cant simply see nothing at him that even worth noticing than a loser that cant see anything but himself , any say anything that didnt fit him and you will see "GO TALK TO THE CHINESE , YOU A COWARD , ALWAYS LECTURING VIETNAMESE" meh surely 



Yorozuya said:


> Yes I know that their anti-China protest is mostly a pretense to rob things.
> 
> So it is stupid and arrogant for @Aqsuperman to compare me (or the other old members) to the Binh Duong rioters and that he has come here to teach us. When in real life, I'm probably old enough and qualified enough to be teaching him lol.



And here everyone will see what type of loser yoru is , first i ONLY COMPARE HIM TO DINH DUONG PROTESTER , not anybody else , stop adding words to my sentence , if you put a dress on then you can  . Reason ? as like those looter and protester he always require other to worry about China first but about the domestic new and situaition ? "No dont lecture or teach me , you a coward if you cant solve the chinese first , for now let me run around burning Korean , Taiwan store " the point is all he care about is the "outside" , if any dare to say about the "inside" he will go around screaming  

And stop ATSM  you cant even put a foot into my university nonetheless teach me , you sound dumber and dumber after each time you know that ?

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Gambit once answered me "Đẻ ở Sài Gòn" means he was born in Sai Gon.
> He's brainy middle age man, maybe around 50.
> 
> Southerner who fled aboard always hate communism, and hate China communism much more than Vietnam communism.
> 
> Love his knowledgeable posts.
> 
> 
> RoK always support Vietnam in secret. No one know exactly when they provided Vietnam 03 ships for Coast Guard but they were there to confront China oil rig escort last year.



His age is no problem man, it simply means more life experience and knowledge.
Yes, I know he hates communism and I did read once his story about how he had to leave Vietnam and what happened to his family, so I understand his views.

That being said, have to let go of the past, can't live on the past for ever. There are many people like him, Viets and Americans, that have those issues. Actually, many American veterans are living in Danang now (and there are many that come often) and they always say the same thing, they are surprised of how friendly and forgiving Vietnamese people are to them (including those that fought against them) and the fact that most Viets got over the war and let go of it. These people are here working out issues including some pretty dark ones sometimes.

Letting go does not mean to forget (but it does include forgiving), but its something that needs to be done eventually. Its not healthy to live in the past and to carry those types of emotions.
Somehow, it seems to be more difficult for those in the US (both Viets and Americans) to let go of the past. I hope it eventually works out for @gambit .

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## Soryu

Aqsuperman said:


> As i said.........simply faling  i never said im here to educate anyone , im just here to supply (spell is s-u-p-p-l-y if your brain have trouble reading , tough to grow i presume  ) not teach not lecture not even have any word about above-under relationship here stop putting words into my mourth , people can read my comment , man up and stop acting like a loser ) All i do is make sure other have full infomation not piecemeal misleading info like that cremated pilot corpse above ( is that that hard for you to accept ? make sure = lecture , teach ? ) , but you always seem the problem kid yoru no matter how old are you , you cant simply take in infomation , all you can do is keep blah blah blah about old about membership about i cant post info right here because "that is bragging" about how bragging i am so what the hell i am bragging ? simply speak out the truth and im called "bragging" ? arrogant ? i post the info and that it , you jump right in and ask me to go lecture other non-Vietnam then what the hell is that call ? polite ? or simply a distinctive trait of buffalo kid or keyboard heroes ? judge ? i never judge anyone before any "keyboard heroes" judge me first , look around you ? im new here i know it and i join this forum just to discuss military but remember how many time you talking crap to me when i dont even want to talk to you , you have a problem about attention point ? you will need treatmeant fast because you cant even become a security guard with that crappy attitude . And finally oh plz now you bring up my professional and age ? what the hell does it relate to this subject ? you are that desperate to prove that you are better than me at something ? No Mr.Sore Loser im a Junior Accountant in training for the final exam , pass it and i got a job right away , happy ? so how old are you ? 30 ? 60 ? 90 ?
> 
> And Soryu that heart attack comment is for the Yoru comment that he already deleted , im not talking about Niceguy so sorry in advance Niceguy if you feel offended :3 the truth im surely not the best human in the word but i do know what the different between a normal guy and a loser always looking for a fight , i contribute to people here what i know ( and again : not lecture not teach not bragging ) and I NEVER INSULT ANYONE FIRST , ask any around here , Mr Sore Loser already delete his comment but surely there are people here do know what type of tongue he say to me first , I respect everyone here but about yoru I cant simply see nothing at him that even worth noticing than a loser that cant see anything but himself , any say anything that didnt fit him and you will see "GO TALK TO THE CHINESE , YOU A COWARD , ALWAYS LECTURING VIETNAMESE" meh surely
> 
> 
> 
> And here everyone will see what type of loser yoru is , first i ONLY COMPARE HIM TO DINH DUONG PROTESTER , not anybody else , stop adding words to my sentence , if you put a dress on then you can  . Reason ? as like those looter and protester he always require other to worry about China first but about the domestic new and situaition ? "No dont lecture or teach me , you a coward if you cant solve the chinese first , for now let me run around burning Korean , Taiwan store " the point is all he care about is the "outside" , if any dare to say about the "inside" he will go around screaming
> 
> And stop ATSM  you cant even put a foot into my university nonetheless teach me , you sound dumber and dumber after each time you know that ?


Ok, I understand now.

Though I don't know what did Yoro said to made you must respond with strong and harsh words like this, but I rather agreed with you about this post (but I don't think Tuoitre news or some other news do it in purpose to create strong voice from readers, mostly because some radical and foreign-lover hot head).

Đưa di cốt thiếu tá Nguyễn Anh Tú về quê nhà - Chính trị - Xã hội - Tuổi Trẻ Online
REDS.VN - Sự thật sau chuyện 'tro cốt liệt sĩ trong túi xách'



> Trần Hoài Thanh 09:55 07/05/2015
> Ngày 3-5 đã tổ chức truy điệu cho Thiếu tá Nguyễn Anh Tú tại Tp.HCM. Đây chỉ là di cốt được gia đình đưa về quê nhà, hoàn toàn là dân sự.
> Liên quan đến quy định của Hàng không: nếu tro cốt đưa vào tiểu đi đường hàng không thì phải đóng thùng kẽm, có GCN kiểm dịch đi dưới dạng hàng gửi cargo, không được đi theo dạng hành lý xách tay hoặc hành lý ký gửi thông thường. Gia đình lựa chọn cho vào túi để xách tay là hợp lý, có điên mới gửi cargo.
> BCH Quân sự quận Ngô Quyền tổ chức đón di cốt liệt sĩ Tú từ chân thang tàu bay (không được tự tiện chui vào trong tàu đón ra đâu nhá!) chỉ khi đón được gia đình ở tàu bay xuống chân cầu thang mới biết di cốt để trong túi thì bất ngờ trở tay không kịp. Gia đình cũng đâu có kinh nghiệm để thông báo cho bên đón rằng chúng tôi nhét trong túi xách hay mang sẵn cờ để phủ lên đâu.
> Xe đỗ cách đấy 10 bước chân, cờ đã chuẩn bị sẵn trong xe rồi nên đưa túi vào xe rồi mới phủ cờ là phù hợp. Việc đón này không nằm trong nghi thức lễ tang của quân đội mà đây là nghĩa cử của đồng chí, đồng đội. Tất nhiên, nếu phối hợp tốt với gia đình thì việc tổ chức đón sẽ trang trọng hơn.
> Các bác thực tế chút đi, chỉ có Đại tướng Võ Nguyên Giáp mất được đi hẳn một chuyên cơ thôi.



I think both of you should clam down and stop this fight.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> His age is no problem man, it simply means more life experience and knowledge.
> Yes, I know he hates communism and I did read once his story about how he had to leave Vietnam and what happened to his family, so I understand his views.
> 
> That being said, have to let go of the past, can't live on the past for ever. There are many people like him, Viets and Americans, that have those issues. Actually, many American veterans are living in Danang now (and there are many that come often) and they always say the same thing, they are surprised of how friendly and forgiving Vietnamese people are to them (including those that fought against them) and the fact that most Viets got over the war and let go of it. These people are here working out issues including some pretty dark ones sometimes.
> 
> Letting go does not mean to forget (but it does include forgiving), but its something that needs to be done eventually. Its not healthy to live in the past and to carry those types of emotions.
> Somehow, it seems to be more difficult for those in the US (both Viets and Americans) to let go of the past. I hope it eventually works out for @gambit .


actually it is a thing of the older generations that fought on the american side against the northerner and vietcongs.

gambit or my father for instance.

the majority if young overseas vietnamese today have no hard feeling at all, all are much realistic and accept the thing as it is. sure, you can see republic south vietnam flag here and there on demo and events. many hate or dislike communism. but most of them send money back home to the family and relatives, make holidays and invest in business in vietnam.

some of us have gained important posts in the new home countries. this young couple, formerly refugee on a fishing boat: _Hieu Le and his wife Lan Le_, now the new governor of south australia. we do good things.

Meet the former Vietnamese refugee to be South Australia’s next governor | ABC Radio Australia


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## Viet

I like the pics. navy parade in cam ranh bay, to commemorate the 60th anniversary of founding of vietnam people´s navy. some pic many be already posted.



























The Marines






Naval Special Forces






Submarine Formation


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## Viet

Specialised vehicle for naval weapons











Missile corvette

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## Viet

Kilo-class submarine- the HQ-184 Haiphong






Kilo-class submarines -HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh City and 182 Hanoi






Naval Helicopters

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## Viet

Transport company* Rolldock* confirms receiving order to ship the Kilo sub #4 185 Khanh Hoa: Q2/ 2015. that means the sub arrives soon.






hm...more rumours on acquisition interest of *Scorpene *for the navy. military and technically speaking, I think it makes sense as our friend India operates the scorpene class, though the sub lacks the capability to launch balistic missiles.

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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> And finally oh plz now you bring up my professional and age ? what the hell does it relate to this subject ? you are that desperate to prove that you are better than me at something ? No Mr.Sore Loser im a Junior Accountant in training for the final exam , pass it and i got a job right away , happy ? so how old are you ? 30 ? 60 ? 90 ?



Yes I'm happy, very happy! Thanks for that  I love you buddy!!

And no, I'm not going to reveal my personal details like my age, or the area I'm studying, etc. I don't even tell those to the good members here. Do you really think I wanted a d**k measuring contest?  I have no intention to give out any of my info, I just want your info. I wasn't going to write this, but I just have to do it seeing how silly you have been acting, again and again.

Let's see, you've described yourself as:

-You are a young junior accountant.
-But you've also volunteered yourself to work for a so-called "secret order" who have connections with the military/govt.
-Your volunteer job is to monitor internet comments for "reactionaries."
-Your purpose is also to "supply" info to Vietnamese netizens/internet commenters.

Anyone reading your self-descriptions can easily realize that you are a Vietnamese 50cent. But since you are just a volunteer 50cent, you act pretty silly and untrained, revealing things about yourself (and about other people) that you shouldn't have.

Why I called you a loud mouth? Because only a loud mouth can't help themselves but to reveal all these things publically. Why I accused you of bragging? because you've revealed the "secret order" and revealed details about the people you're are working for just so you can brag about your connections.

Haven't you already admitted once that you have revealed too much about yourself and the people that you are working for? you even deleted those comments and apologized. If it wasn't for other members here reminding you and stopping you, you'd probably reveal alot more (you already forgotten how I've previously baited you in giving details on how your "secret order" recruit their members?). But now you are still acting the same, letting me easily manipulate you with your uncontrolled emotions.



Aqsuperman said:


> you cant even put a foot into my university nonetheless teach me , you sound dumber and dumber after each time you know that ?



It is the other way around my friend. Go and read all your comments again and see how I have manipulated you with your uncontrolled emotions, then learn from it. And consider this a free lesson from me to you.

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## BoQ77

@Yorozuya : could I invite you a glass of bia hoi in a military canteen? 
For further discussion of this topic? 
Vietnam is going to have some bigger ships for vcg and navy.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> @Yorozuya : could I invite you a glass of bia hoi in a military canteen?
> For further discussion of this topic?
> Vietnam is going to have some bigger ships for vcg and navy.


come on man, tell me as well that you know, why only talking to yoro?

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## BoQ77

3500+ ton is a must have for vls, you know. .

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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> @Yorozuya : could I invite you a glass of bia hoi in a military canteen?
> For further discussion of this topic?
> Vietnam is going to have some bigger ships for vcg and navy.





Viet said:


> come on man, tell me as well that you know, why only talking to yoro?



Military canteen? I'm stuck in a 141 station for being a buffalo kid , can you come and help bail me out?

I want to talk about the women football game. The VN team is playing bad. I think Thailand will come back and win.

Edit: 1-2 Thailand
R.I.P.

goodnight.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> @Yorozuya : could I invite you a glass of bia hoi in a military canteen?
> For further discussion of this topic?
> Vietnam is going to have some bigger ships for vcg and navy.



Hey, when are you coming to Danang man? Lets have a bia Larue and talk about these things. I'm also interested in this topic. 



BoQ77 said:


> 3500+ ton is a must have for vls, you know. .



Depends on what VLS, the Israelis place Barak 8 VLS systems on 1100 ton corvettes.

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## BoQ77

I mean antiship vls


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## Aqsuperman

Right........(the biggest loads of crap I ever see coming out from a person , or atleast something that can type a keyboard , try to change how much a sore loser he looked...... ) Oh well guess you have fun with "manipulate" me :v but still do remember to make an appointment with a doctor , i heard that brain problem ( especially attention point) is rather dangerous , cause you to have illusion , trouble-reading and understandig words . Best hope to you


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## Aqsuperman

On a side note , look like both the AK-12 and Armarta variants wont go into service anytime soon , the upgraded AK-74MR and T-90A , T-72M3 , T-80 and BTRs will still form the backbone of Russsia Ground Force , meh and I was hoping VN can start purchasing them at a large scale since Russia wil have a large surplus after the switch


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> On a side note , look like both the AK-12 and Armarta variants wont go into service anytime soon , the upgraded AK-74MR and T-90A , T-72M3 , T-80 and BTRs will still form the backbone of Russsia Ground Force , meh and I was hoping VN can start purchasing them at a large scale since Russia wil have a large surplus after the switch


pretty much expected...I would say. all the news toys need times to mature. nobody can´t expect for instance the F-35 would fly tomorrow after presenting to the public. So Armata. I do HOPE Russia would transfer us with the technology and assembly line to produce the kilo.

anyway, I posted this article already, want to mock the chinese a bit. as it is not only a one sided game. we can reclaim land, too. too sad. at much smaller scale. what we lack of, as per report, a airport, that can host fighter jets such as SU-30s.


Vietnam reclaiming land in South China Sea: Report

*AFP, Hanoi*
Updated: May 08, 2015 16:05 IST






*New satellite images show Vietnam has carried out significant land reclamation at two sites in the disputed South China Sea, but the scale and pace of the work is dwarfed by that of China, a US research institute said. (Reuters)*

Vietnam has carried out significant land reclamation at two sites in disputed South China Sea waters, recent satellite pictures show, but analysts say the scale of the work is dwarfed by that of China.

The images, taken late last month by DigitalGlobe and shown on the website of the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), show land expansions at Sand Cay and West London Reef, both part of the Spratly Islands.

"Between August 2011 and February 2015 significant upgrades were made to (*Sand Cay*)," CSIS said, noting the island's land mass had expanded from 41,690 to 62,970 square meters.

Vietnam also appears to have added "defensive structures," including trenches and gun emplacements, it said.

At* West Reef* -- which is part of the London Reefs group of western Spratly Islands -- some 65,000 meters of land have been reclaimed with new structures, including a harbour, being added, it said.

The work appears to have begun in August 2012, CSIS said, long before Beijing launched a flurry of reclamation projects last year.





_West London Reef is pictured in the South China Sea in 2015, in this handout photo provided by CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative/DigitalGlobe.
_
The Spratlys are considered a potential Asian flashpoint, and the United States and claimant nations have expressed alarm as China has embarked on massive and speedy reclamation activity.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, locking it into disputes with several Southeast Asian neighbours.
Its claims overlap those of Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan. China has undertaken major reclamation work on seven Spratly features in the last year.

"Chinese activity is clearly on an entirely different scale," said Vietnam expert Jonathan London of Hong Kong's City University.

*"Vietnam appears to be now trying to strengthen its position with added urgency,"* London said.

"Not only is there a sort of regional arms race but a rush to claim maritime areas, rock features and things of this nature," in disputed waters in the region which is a key global trading route, he added.

Some $5 trillion of sea-borne trade passes through the area each year. China's island-building in the Spratlys has been seen as part of an attempt to assert its territorial claims by establishing physical facts in the water.

Fiery Cross in the Spratly Islands was little more than a reef until last year when China began reclamation work.
It now has a partially-finished airstrip with a 3.1 kilometres (1.9 miles) runway. It also appears to be undertaking work at a feature known as Mischief Reef, just 100 kilometres (60 miles) from the southwestern Philippine island of Palawan.

Vietnam has an airstrip on the largest Spratly Island it controls, which was renovated in 2000 and can accommodate helicopters or small planes. Vietnam's Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the new satellite images.

Vietnam reclaiming land in South China Sea: Report

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I mean antiship vls



One of the Gepard versions have a 8 cell UKSK VLS system for 8 Yakhont missiles and its still around 2200 tons.


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## BoQ77

In another meeting with President Sang, leaders of a Russian sub-marine manufacturer said the company attaches great importance to its cooperation with Vietnam, noting that it had delivered 3 submarines to Vietnam and is expected to hand over the remaining 3 submarines in 2016 as scheduled.

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## Viet

It appears that the US makes more efforts to lure Vietnam into the camp. But I think it is still too little she puts on the table.

Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh on May 8 receives the US ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius in the army headquarters. Ving suggests both sides continue building mutual trust as a premise for further bilateral cooperation. Ted Osius announces the US government increases the budget to help Vietnam clean up dioxin and unexploded bombs and mines left by the war.






a delegation of US Congressman led by Matt Salmon, chairman of the Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific visits Hanoi, May 7. irony of history: both sides explore cooperations between a capitalistic US Congress and a communistic National Assembly of Vietnam.

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## Viet

one thing I just discover: Vietnam Helicopter Corp, VNH. the company operates a fleet of 28 heli and wants to increase to 36 by 2020. one of company major businesses is serving foreign oil & gas companies. AND supporting the US army for US Missed In Action (MIA) program. Searching for missing (probably long dead) US soldiers during the Vietnam war. most of the heli come from Eurocopter.




























searching missing US soldiers (MIA)

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## BoQ77

It run by MOD. If you want a sale off price, tell me. Cost a phone call only.

In Gia Lam, Hanoi
everyone know that


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> It run by MOD. If you want a sale off price, tell me. Cost a phone call only.


oh really, I didn´t know it. no wonder the company has the contract of searching the remains of US servicemen.
what you mean with the latter? don´t get what you mean.

hot topic on many threads lately: the newfound sino-russo friendship. I think we need to be cautious, seeing how things develop between the two´s and develop a proper response. sure, it is impossible to compete with china due to its size and power. we need a strategy to offer russia something that china can´t.

Domodedovo Airport, on May 8. the President Sang and his spouse arrives Moscow for a 4 day visit. attending the Military Parade on the Red Square.






Meeting with President Vladimir Putin in Moscow on May 9.
some agreements:

Vietnam joins Russia led Eurasian Economic Union later this month.
reviewing cooperations of both countries’ oil and gas companies, in vietnam and russia and looking for increased investments and activities. cooperation in finance, investment, banking, industry, agriculture, and mining.
deepen cooperation in national defence and security with a focus on training servicemen and technicians.
studying possibility of establishing a joint venture for seafood and wood processing in Russia’s Primori region and a light industry zone in Moscow.
Russia, Vietnam studying 17 potential joint projects worth $20 bln - Ushakov | Russia Beyond The Headlines


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## BoQ77

MOD control airspace, any air search, surveillance service.. Come to them, at last


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## Viet

the White House: remarkable pictures and a hint for the upcoming VCP boss to Washington.

Barak Obama invited on Friday, May 1st, three international journalists, who have been persecuted as a result of their work, according to the White House: Fatima Tlisova of Russia, Dieu Cay of Vietnam and Simegnish “Lily” Mengesha of Ethiopia. Dieu Cay (pen name), real name is Nguyen Van Hai, a blogger who served a 12-year prison term for anti-government propaganda (he mostly critized the appeasement policy toward China). He was released and moved to the U.S. last year. Obama appears saying without words in the direction of Vietnam: the way for establishing strategic partnership to the US is improvement of human rights and press freedom.

“I want to thank the three journalists who are here for sharing with me in very clear and stark terms some of the challenges that folks are facing. I want everybody to understand that this will continue to be a priority for the United States in our foreign policy, not only because it’s the right thing to do, but also because ultimately I believe it’s in *the national interest of the United States*.” says Obama.


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## BoQ77

He was discharged as agreed. Between two.
With only American hands, Dieu Cay can't be freed.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> These are not tourists man. I'm talking at least 20 Korean naval officers in their uniform, all in just one place. It has to be something going on.
> .



I have no clue on this. A Photo claimed to be Korean military transporters landing in Vietnam.

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## BoQ77

Last Friday US ambassador meet Deputy chief of MOD for new things. Earlier , Mr Vinh goes back and forth usa for better relationship between two. Big things happening under surface

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## Viet

welcome to da nang: japanese coast guard vessel *JCGS Yashima*

*



*

*



*

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## Aqsuperman

Meh that a damn big Coast Guard ship , nearly 5300 tons full load.........dear lord that more than twice the weight of a Gepard :v


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## Viet

*frogmen*´s training










































the 3 new tranport aircraft *C-295M *can soon land on the Trường Sa Lớn airfield (big spratly island). the plane has a maximum range of 3,800 km when carrying loads up to 5.5 tonnes. it needs only 670m runway for takeoff, 320m at landing. So we need to enlarge the airfield a bit because currently it is 600 meters long, and 30 meters wide.














according to Brigadier General Tran Van Than, once the last Su-30MK2´s are delivered this year, the next
versatile fighter jet for the airforce is *Su-30SM*, beating the potential candidates Saab Jas-39 and Rafael.

Việt Nam sẽ mua tiêm kích hiện đại hơn Su-30MK2 | soha.vn

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## Viet

developed by Science and Technology Institute of Military.
field testing of artillery firing guidance systems





just entering the Baltic sea and heading to St. Petersburg, the kilo Đà Nẵng is expected to reach Cam ranh bay in 1.5 month.





a Su-30MK2 firing a Kh-31A missile that can destroy enemy ship and radar installation. range 50km, 90kg warhead.





new generation of airborne Kh-35 missile, range 150km will give the Su a more deadly punch.


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## Viet

Have I posted a rumor of Scorpène sub for the navy some days ago?

May 12th in the army headquarters, Vankerk-Hoven, Deputy Head of the Directorate of Security and Defense Cooperation (France). well, I suggest the army may ask him directly for possibility to deliver conventional and nuclear subs. the french guy looks a bit depressed. I wonder why? is it about of the 2 unsold french warships mistral to russia? why not sell with cheap price to vietnam?


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## Viet

courtesy to xinhua

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## BoQ77

Today : loading day of the 4th kilo-class submarine for Vietnam Navy
ETA: June 2015


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## BoQ77

Latest exchange between US and Vietnam
154th Wing, Hickam, Honolulu, Hawaii - Air National Guard
in Da Nang


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## Carlosa

Latest pics of Vietnamese land reclamation in West London reefs (Đảo Đá Tây); the land went from 12,595 s/m to 77,596 s/m now.

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## Carlosa

Latest pic of Vietnamese land reclamation in Pearson Reef (Đảo Phan Vinh), the darker area is the original island. The original island has been expanded about 4 times:

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## Carlosa

Latest pics of Vietnamese land reclamation in Sand Cay Island (đảo Sơn Ca), the land went from 41,690 s/m in 2011 to 62,790 s/m now.:

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## Carlosa

Latest pics of Vietnamese land reclamation in Sin Cowe Island (Đảo Sinh Ton):

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## Carlosa

Latest pics of Vietnamese land reclamation in Central London Reef (Trường Sa Đông):






---------------------------------------------------------------------

Latest pics of Vietnamese land reclamation in Corwallis south reef (Đáo Núi Le):









---------------------------------------------------------------------

Latest pics of Vietnamese land reclamation in Barque Canada Reef (Đảo Thuyền Chài):

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## Viet

carlosa, wonder pictures. though we must acquire heavy dredging machines as seen at our friends in china to speed up the process a bit.

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## Echo_419

Carlosa said:


> Latest pics of Vietnamese land reclamation in Central London Reef (Trường Sa Đông):
> 
> View attachment 222254



Great news such reclamation projects will strengthen Vietnams claim



Viet said:


> *frogmen*´s training
> View attachment 220798
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> View attachment 220805
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> 
> the 3 new tranport aircraft *C-295M *can soon land on the Trường Sa Lớn airfield (big spratly island). the plane has a maximum range of 3,800 km when carrying loads up to 5.5 tonnes. it needs only 670m runway for takeoff, 320m at landing. So we need to enlarge the airfield a bit because currently it is 600 meters long, and 30 meters wide.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> according to Brigadier General Tran Van Than, once the last Su-30MK2´s are delivered this year, the next
> versatile fighter jet for the airforce is *Su-30SM*, beating the potential candidates Saab Jas-39 and Rafael.
> 
> Việt Nam sẽ mua tiêm kích hiện đại hơn Su-30MK2 | soha.vn



SU-30SM is the best flanker variant out there & is inspired from Indian SU-30MKI 
Vietnam has made a good choice

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## Viet

May 15
Vietnam, China annual border defence friendship exchange, Lao Cai and Yunnan. Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh welcomed a Chinese delegation led by Defence Minister Chang Wanquan.

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## Viet

Vietnam made vibration damper:
I assume it works similar to antivibration systems widely implemented in cars and trucks.



























May 16th. Sino-Vietnam border: joint patrol


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## Viet

the Marines with IMI Negev machine gun.





magazine with 30 bullets

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> magazine with 30 bullets



I thought that IMI Negev in 5.56 only accept the 35 round-magazine from the Gali ? Our Naval Infantry use adapter on it ?


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## Viet

if women rule the world, we would see a more peaceful place.

Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff on May 15 held a welcoming reception for Vice State President Nguyen Thi Doan, who is on a visit to the South American country to attend the Global Women’s Summit in Sao Paolo. Brazil is Vietnam’s largest export market in South America.






14 May. Azerbaijan's First Lady Mehriban Aliyeva welcomes First Lady Vietnam Mau Thi Han with landmarks of Baku. the country is rich of oil and gas reserves.
Azerbaijan, Vietnam Have Great Potential for Oil, Gas Co-op, Ilham Aliyev Says | Oil&Gas Eurasia

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> I thought that IMI Negev in 5.56 only accept the 35 round-magazine from the Gali ? Our Naval Infantry use adapter on it ?


I´m not sure. you can check the article here.
Súng phóng lựu không cò đặc biệt trang bị cho HQĐB Việt Nam | soha.vn

also, IMI Negev can fire using a 150 round magazine.





the Marines also have TAR-21 assault rifle with grenade launcher.


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## Viet

Vietnam Airforce
source: flight global 2015

fixed wing aircraft:
144 MIG-21
38 Su-22
26 L-39
12 Su-27
36 Su-30
30 An-26, 3 C-295M, 5 DHC-6, 3 CASA C-212, 1 An-28 MPA

Heli:
2 EC-225, 2 Ka-32, 88 Mi-8/17, 15 UH-1H, 25 Mi-24, 8 Ka-28

jet trainer L-39 Albatros

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## Viet

I believe that is the first time ever. 2 Orion patrol aircraft of 18th Air Corp of JMSDF in Vietnam, taking fuel and having rest for the crew before countinuing the long journey to Djibouti. strengthening strategic partnership to Japan.

courtesy to @Nihonjin1051

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## Soryu

New military hardwards produce by M1 company, part of Viettel Group:















A study by 1st Army Officer Academy consider BMP-3F is best amphibious vehicle for VPA.

Việt Nam chọn BMP-3F mới, bỏ qua xe thanh lý của Hàn Quốc? | soha.vn
Cổng TTĐT ĐHTQT

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> I believe that is the first time ever. 2 Orion patrol aircraft of 18th Air Corp of JMSDF in Vietnam, taking fuel and having rest for the crew before countinuing the long journey to Djibouti. strengthening strategic partnership to Japan.
> 
> courtesy to @Nihonjin1051






Here is to more cooperation between the Vietnamese Navy and Air Force with the JMSDF, JASDF !

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## Aepsilons

Soryu said:


> New military hardwards produce by M1 company, part of Viettel Group:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A study by 1st Army Officer Academy consider BMP-3F is best amphibious vehicle for VPA.
> 
> Việt Nam chọn BMP-3F mới, bỏ qua xe thanh lý của Hàn Quốc? | soha.vn
> Cổng TTĐT ĐHTQT





Excellent !

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I believe that is the first time ever. 2 Orion patrol aircraft of 18th Air Corp of JMSDF in Vietnam, taking fuel and having rest for the crew before countinuing the long journey to Djibouti. strengthening strategic partnership to Japan.
> 
> courtesy to @Nihonjin1051



Very interesting, do you know what base is that?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very interesting, do you know what base is that?


no info. from the pics scenery, I guess da nang 



Soryu said:


> New military hardwards produce by M1 company, part of Viettel Group:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A study by 1st Army Officer Academy consider BMP-3F is best amphibious vehicle for VPA.
> 
> Việt Nam chọn BMP-3F mới, bỏ qua xe thanh lý của Hàn Quốc? | soha.vn
> Cổng TTĐT ĐHTQT


from the pic, armed drone is one of the items on the acquisition list 2015-2020.

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## Viet

_two news on our cooperation with Singaporean Arms Forces. the city state´s army has probably the most modern military toys in the region. a big respect to Singapore._


*Singapore and Vietnam nurture growing defence relations*
AsiaOneThursday, Nov 13, 2014






The Vietnam People’s Army Chief of General Staff and Vice Minister of Defence, Senior Lieutenant-General (SNR-LG) Do Ba Ty, calling on Second Minister for Defence Mr Chan Chun Sing.



The Vietnam People's Army Chief of General Staff and Vice Minister of National Defence, Senior Lieutenant-General (SNR-LG) Do Ba Ty, called on Second Minister for Defence Mr Chan Chun Sing this afternoon.

SNR-LG Ty, who is in Singapore on an introductory visit from Nov 12 to 15 also called on Chief of Defence Force Lieutenant-General Ng Chee Meng and inspected a Guard of Honour at the Ministry of Defence earlier today.





_SNR-LG Ty inspecting the Guard of Honour at the Ministry of Defence
_
As part of his visit, SNR-LG Ty toured the Singapore Armed Forces Headquarters
Medical Corps at Nee Soon Camp, and the Changi Command and Control Centre where he visited both the Information Fusion Centre, and the Changi Regional Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR) Coordination Centre.





_SNR-LG Ty receiving a brief at the Changi Regional Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR) Coordination Centre
_
SNR-LG Ty's visit highlights the warm and growing defence relations between Singapore and Vietnam, underscored by the signing of the Defence Cooperation Agreement at the defence minister level in September 2009.
Both armed forces interact regularly through high-level visits, professional exchanges, cross-attendance of courses and port calls.


*Vietnamese Air Force commander visits Singapore*
AsiaOneThursday, May 14, 2015






LG Hoa inspecting a Guard of Honour.


SINGAPORE - The Commander of the Vietnam People's Air Defence - Air Force, Lieutenant General (LG) Phuong Minh Hoa is in Singapore for an introductory visit from May 13 to 15.

During the visit, LG Hoa met with Defence Minister Dr Ng Eng Hen and Chief of Air Force, Major-General Hoo Cher Mou.

LG Hoa will then be visiting the Republic of Singapore Air Force Aeromedical Centre and the Air Force Training Command, the Ministry Of Defence said in a statement today.

LG Hoa's introductory visit underscores the warm and friendly defence relations between both countries. Both air forces interact regularly through high-level visits, professional exchanges, and cross-attendance of courses.

grongloh@sph.com.sg


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## Aqsuperman

ya the base is indeed in Da Nang , a lot of people do see those P-3 when their land , too big compared to our Antonov  
About the UAV , I think that our drone will mostly acting as scout and artillery spotter (like that VT-Patrol ) , armed UAV is hard to come by unless some countries provide us with atleast the lay out and a engine strong enough to take off with the armanent load


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## Viet

a long range patrol aircraft DHC-6 landing on truong sa lon island. from the pictures taken, I don´t see any large scale land reclamation of the island. a transport vessel is seen, but no patrol vessels, nor warships.
_
















_






_





















_


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## Barmaley

Soryu said:


> A study by 1st Army Officer Academy consider BMP-3F is best amphibious vehicle for VPA.
> 
> Việt Nam chọn BMP-3F mới, bỏ qua xe thanh lý của Hàn Quốc? | soha.vn
> Cổng TTĐT ĐHTQT



Interesting news about BMP-3F. 

Da Nang submarine loaded. Photo from 16.05.15

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## cnleio

2015.05.17 Vietnam and China Defense Ministers meet on Sino-Vietnam border,and visit PLA military camp (in GuangXi)


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## cnleio

2015.05.17 Vietnam and China Defense Ministers lead the border patrol on Sino-Vietnam border

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## Echo_419

Soryu said:


> New military hardwards produce by M1 company, part of Viettel Group:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A study by 1st Army Officer Academy consider BMP-3F is best amphibious vehicle for VPA.
> 
> Việt Nam chọn BMP-3F mới, bỏ qua xe thanh lý của Hàn Quốc? | soha.vn
> Cổng TTĐT ĐHTQT



Great efoort by Vietnam

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> 2015.05.17 Vietnam and China Defense Ministers meet on Sino-Vietnam border,and visit PLA military camp (in GuangXi)
> 
> View attachment 222725
> 
> View attachment 222726
> 
> View attachment 222727
> 
> View attachment 222728
> 
> View attachment 222729
> 
> View attachment 222730
> 
> View attachment 222731
> 
> View attachment 222732


ha ha ha...into the mouth of a dragon.


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## Aqsuperman

wow those troops face look tense indeed :v


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## Viet

nah...it appears we get a new class of patrol vessel: 4,000 tons plus, 120 m long, 16 m wide.

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## Soryu

Aqsuperman said:


> About the UAV , I think that our drone will mostly acting as scout and artillery spotter (like that VT-Patrol ) , armed UAV is hard to come by unless some countries provide us with atleast the lay out and a engine strong enough to take off with the armanent load



Vietnam has defense cooperation with Russia, Israel, and Sweden ..., they have technology that we need, and it's not so sensitive to transfer to us.


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## Viet

_the first step is done. thank for the $10m US aid for unexploded ordnance (UXO) clearance. I think the US must do more than just giving this small sum considering the huge casualty and damage the US caused. a package supporting the OA victims should be put on the table._



*Vietnam signs UXO clearance aid pack with U.S. mine advisory group*
English.news.cn 2015-05-18 23:12:35 

 










Xinhua




HANOI, May 18 (Xinhua) -- Vietnam's central Quang Tri Province and the Mine Advisory Group (MAG) of the United States on Monday signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to carry out an unexploded ordnance (UXO) clearance project in the province between 2015 and 2017.

According to the MoU, the U.S. State Department has pledged to sponsor 10 million U.S. dollars in aid for the province to disarm UXO left over from the war in Vietnam.

The project aims to reduce the risks of injuries caused by UXO while clearing contaminated areas and improving local livelihoods, reported Vietnam's state-run news agency VNA.

Quang Tri Province and the MAG will decide on the operational scale of UXO disarming teams and will adjust as necessary through each period of the project.

The two sides are expected to further their cooperation to ensure safe cultivative land for farmers and contribute to local socio-economic development, said Vice Chairman of the provincial people's committee Mai Thuc.

Local authorities pledged to facilitate the implementation of the project, he added.

Statistically, some 391,500 hectares of land in Quang Tri are contaminated due to UXOs, making up more than 83 percent of the provincial area. In 1996, Quang Tri was the first locality in Vietnam to receive global support in defusing bombs and mines.

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## Viet

anyone knows if the 2 Yugo class submarines are still operational?


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## Viet

_40 years after ending of Vietnam war, still, 1,627 US servicemen are reported missing in action. unaccounted. this young guy, James W. Holt, 26 years old, killed in the battle of quang tri of 1968, now found a final resting place._

*Vietnam War MIA Soldier buried at Arlington*




 

 






Story by Lisa Ferdinando












Sgt. Maj. Jeffrey Lewis presents a flag to the family of Master Sgt. James W. Holt, who went missing and was presumed killed in action during the Vietnam War. Holt, 26, of Hope, Ark., was buried with full military honors at Arlington National Cemetery, Va., May 14, 2015. (Army News Service photo by Lisa Ferdinando)

ARLINGTON, Va. - With full military honors, Master Sgt. James W. Holt, who was missing and presumed killed in action during the Vietnam War, was laid to rest at Arlington National Cemetery, Virginia, May 14.

The flag-draped casket was carried on a caisson and escorted by Soldiers, from the 3rd U.S. Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard). The solemn procession moved past the neat rows of white headstones before stopping at the burial site on a grassy hill overlooking the nation's capital.

Holt, 26, was assigned to Company C, 5th Special Forces Group. He was last seen, Feb. 7, 1968, when his unit was attacked by enemy forces near Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam.

Survivors of the attack reported that Holt was manning a 106 mm recoilless rifle in a mortar pit near the camp of Lang Vei, when he depleted his ammunition destroying an enemy tank. The survivors also reported he was last seen running toward the ammunition bunker.

After the battle, Holt was reported as missing in action. A military review board later amended his status to presumed killed in action.

His remains were recently identified and returned to his family for burial.

*SOLEMN REMEMBRANCE*

The tribute to Holt included a colors team, the U.S. Army Band "Pershing's Own," and a firing party, which shot off three rifle volleys.

Sgt. Maj. Jeffrey Lewis presented flags to Holt's widow, Linda Winslow, and daughters, Rebecca Holt and Jessica Holt. Capt. John Scott, chaplain, presided over the funeral.

Holt, who was from Hope, Arkansas, was laid to rest in Section 57.

*REMAINS IDENTIFIED*

Vietnam turned over remains believed to be those of a U.S. service member June 21, 1989. Due to the technology at that time, the remains could not be identified.

Scientists, from the Department of Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency and the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory, used circumstantial evidence and forensic identification tools, including two forms of DNA analysis, in the identification of Holt's remains.

According to the Department of Defense, 1,627 U.S. service members remain unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.

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## Aqsuperman

still rolling  but mostly for training now , in emergencies will be used to deliver small Đặc Công units

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## Viet

May 19th. much faster than expected, the building and assembly of the 2 gepard class light frigates are complete. weapons are now installed. I assume the ships will set to sea trail this year. the firepower of our navy at sea will increase a lot once the warships patrol the south china sea.

edit: Vietnam negotiates with the shipyard of delivery of more gepards with more advanced missiles.

Russland beendet Bau von Fregatten für Vietnam und will mit Bangladesch kooperieren / Sputnik Deutschland - Nachrichten, Meinung, Radio

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## Viet

_strong tie to Russia: both friend and partner._


*Vietnam-Russia ties at an all-time high. Russian envoy*
11:10 May 18, 2015 RBTH





_Russian Ambassador to Vietnam Konstantin Vasilievich Vnukov (L) at a media conference in Hanoi on May 13 _


Bilateral ties between Russia and Vietnam have reached an all-time high, Konstantin Vnukov, the Russian Ambassador in Hanoi said, according to the Viet News agency. He added that *Vietnam is Russia’s only comprehensive strategic partner in the Asia-Pacific.*

The ambassador said, Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang’s attendance at the recent Victory Day celebrations in Moscow “is the most vivid manifestation of the two peoples’ friendship, mutual trust and understanding.”

He added that during Sang’s visit, Moscow and Ho Chi Minh City signed an agreement on strengthening cooperation in a wide range of fields, including technology, machine manufacturing, food technology, trade, and banking.

According to the report, Vnokov noted that the Vietnamese leader launched, via a TV link, a new complex of the Rusvietpetro, a joint venture between the Russian oil group of Zarubezhneft and the Vietnam National Oil and Gas Group. The complex is in the Nenets Autonomous region.

Speaking about defense cooperation, Vnukov said a contract was signed for the transfer of Russian submarines to Vietnam. He added that Russia is helping Vietnam train sailors to run the submarines.

- http://rbth.co.uk/news/2015/05/18/vietnam-russia_ties_at_an_all-time_high-_russian_envoy_46111.html)

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## Viet

there is report India faces ammunition shortage, the stockpile only lasts for 20 days of fighting. how about the situation in Vietnam? will the army face similar issue?

No. in normal scenario.

following the resolution 06 of the Politburo (Vietnam´s highest decision making body), the domestic fabrics can almost produce all kinds of ammunitions: 7,62, 9,0, 12,7, 14,5, 23, 30, 37, 57, 122, 130, 152 mm; caliber 60, 82, 100 mm; and anti tank missiles. the goal, for the next 5-10 years, is set to produce (cruise/balistic) missiles.

Z15 factory






Z131 factory





Z113 factory

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## Viet

I understand Vietnam has agreed in principle joining Glonass: Russia global positioning system, designed for both civil and military purposes. positioning accuracy is 3.5 metres and by 2020 it is to be improved to 60 centimetres.

negotiation on the price and radio stations to be built in Vietnam. one disadvantage of Glonass is user devices are bigger than of GPS. less handy.

TASS: Non-political - Russia negotiating placing GLONASS stations in China, Cuba, Nicaragua, Vietnam

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## Viet

fast patrol boat: Trường Sa CQ-01, built by X46 shipyard.
a donation from the Vietnamese community in Germany for the VCG.





VCG officials visit a stand of Singapore Technologies on IMDEX Asia 2015.

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## Aqsuperman

That's what we call a comparsion and info about domestic situaition , not a single word mocking, but you know about the saying that go like : "They understand what they want to understand" ? I see that there is bright example here  keep up with the "beging"


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## Transhumanist

*China’s Sea Aggression to Bring Vietnam, U.S. Closer, Says Osius*






China’s territorial maneuvers in the contested South China Sea are bringing its Communist neighbor Vietnam and the U.S. closer together, according to the new ambassador to Vietnam, Ted Osius.

In his first interview with a Western news organization since arriving in December, Osius said human rights concerns remain an obstacle to even deeper ties that may lead to the lifting of a ban on the sale of lethal weapons to Vietnam. Even so, the former war foes are holding more high-level talks, particularly over how to manage tensions with China, he said in an interview on Thursday in Hanoi.

In recent weeks China’s Navy has followed a U.S. coastal combat ship in the South China Sea and warned a U.S. surveillance plane by radio, causing unease among other claimant states such as Vietnam and the Philippines. The U.S. and Vietnam both view China’s assertions in what is a major global shipping lane as a threat to their strategic interests.

“That has caused us to cooperate more closely than in the past,” Osius said at the ambassador’s residence. “It’s beneficial to both countries to have a strong partnership. We see the importance of powerful partnerships where our partners are more and more capable.”

China, which claims more than 80 percent of the South China Sea and has been building new islands on reefs in the waters, said last week it reserves the right to establish an Air Defense Identification Zone over the area. It placed an oil rig last May near the Paracel islands that are also claimed by Vietnam, triggering a diplomatic row and setting off violent anti-China protests in its neighbor.

*‘Leave Immediately’*

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said on Thursday the country should be allowed to maintain security over islands it’s building in the waters. China is “entitled to the surveillance over related airspace and sea areas,” Hong said.

The Chinese navy issued eight warnings Wednesday to a U.S. P8-A Poseidon conducting surveillance flights over the islands, according to CNN, which was aboard the plane. A radio message received by the U.S. plane said: “This is Chinese navy. You are approaching our military alert zone. Leave immediately.” The P8 crew responded that the aircraft was flying through international airspace, CNN said.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter is scheduled to visit Vietnam at the end of May, during which military cooperation will be discussed, Osius said. Carter also will travel to the annual Shangri-La defense forum in Singapore, which is typically attended by senior Chinese military officers.

*Vietnamese Visitors*

The partnership between the U.S. and Vietnam “is deepening -- weekly, if not daily,” Osius said. “We have a huge amount of back and forth at the very highest levels. This year there will be five or maybe six politburo members going to the United States. We will have several cabinet officials and maybe an even bigger visit than that from the United States to Vietnam.”

Bilateral trade between the U.S. and Vietnam soared to $36 billion last year from $451 million in 1995, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. The U.S. is providing Vietnam with six patrol boats, part of an $18 million military aid package, and last year lifted a decades-long ban on the sale of nonlethal weapons to the country.

“I expect there will be more assistance,” Osius said. “We are talking to the Vietnamese about what they need. It will be the Vietnamese who let us know what their greatest needs are, and we’ll see if we are able to respond.”

More than a dozen global defense contractors -- most of them based in the U.S. -- met last month with military officers in Vietnam to discuss the potential sale of equipment.

From China’s Sea Aggression to Bring Vietnam, U.S. Closer, Says Osius - Bloomberg Business

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## Viet

Su-30 pilots on patrol


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## Viet

May 21th: RIA Novosti (a russian news agency) reveals Vietnam negotiates of building of two new Gepard Frigates, equipped with the Kalibr-NK missile system: high precision missiles against surface, underwater and coastal targets, max. range 300 kilometers (190 miles). similar to the Dagestan warship of the Russian Navy.

*Project 11661K Gepard class frigate "Dagestan" *











Kalibr-NK missile system


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## Viet

Air Platforms
*IMDEX 2015: AgustaWestland in talks with Vietnam over naval helicopter needs*

IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
20 May 2015





_submarine hunter AW159 Wildcat_

AgustaWestland's Asia-Pacific head has revealed that the company is in preliminary discussions with the Vietnamese Navy over its helicopter requirements.

Andrew Symonds, vice-president of Asia Pacific at AgustaWestland, told reporters at IMDEX 2015 that the company was in talks with Vietnam over which helicopters would best meet the Vietnamese Navy's needs.

"We're offering them a variety of aircraft to see which platforms meet their requirements, so we talking to them about the AW109, AW139, and we're talking to them about the* AW159 *for anti-submarine warfare requirements," he said.

He added that a Vietnamese naval delegation is expected to visit the United Kingdom later this year to continue the dialogue on its requirements.


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## Viet

_the vessel looks stealthy._


Sea Platforms
*IMDEX 2015: CMN introduces new missile corvette positioned for littoral warfare operations*

*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
20 May 2015





A scale model of the C Sword 90 was shown for the first time at IMDEX 2015 in Singapore. Source: IHS/Ridzwan Rahmat
*Key Points*

CMN has unveiled the model for a new corvette targeted for Southeast Asia, Middle East markets
Vessel is being touted as a compact platform with a wide range of naval capabilities
French shipyard Constructions Mécaniques de Normandie (CMN) has introduced a new 95 m missile corvette design to the Asia-Pacific market.

A model of the corvette, known as the C Sword 90, was unveiled at the IMDEX 2015 exhibition in Singapore. The company is marketing it to navies that operate in littoral waters, especially in the Southeast Asian region.

According to CMN, the corvette has a maximum speed of 28 kt and can attain a standard range of 7,000 n miles at 12 kt. It can carry a crew of 65 with additional berths for 20. The vessel is powered by two propulsion diesel engines and two controlled pitch propellers.

The vessel features a hull design with reduced radar cross-section and has a flight deck that can accommodate a helicopter weighing up to 10 tonnes. The ship can also carry up to two rigid hull inflatable boats (RHIBs) with dedicated davits and can be equipped to deploy unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) or unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs).

The C Sword 90 can be equipped with either a 57 mm or 76 mm gun as a primary weapon and up to two 20 mm or 30 mm cannons as secondary armaments. The vessel has space for a 16-cell vertical launch system for surface-to-air missiles and can also accommodate up to eight surface-to-surface missiles.

The corvette can also be armed with one hull mounted sonar, a towed array module, and up to two triple-tube torpedo launchers for submarine prosecution.

"The main selling point of the C Sword 90 is that an operator can fit such a vast array of equipment on a compact platform that measures just 95 m," Cherif Rdissi, CMN's naval and civil commercial director, told _IHS Jane's_ on 21 May. "The corvette has also been designed with a round bilge hull shape to reduce fuel consumption and operational costs," he said.

According to Rdissi, CMN is targeting countries including Malaysia and *Vietnam*, both of which have articulated a requirement for corvettes in the near- to medium-term. "Other than that we are looking to market to it to the Middle East to countries such as Oman," he said.


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## Viet

_it is a hercules task as it will take decades to clean up all unexploded bombs and mines. Even in Germany, 70 years after the end of second world war, unexploded bombs and mines are still found. in german "Blindgänger"._


By Barry Petersen 
CBS News April 24, 2015, 7:07 PM

*The dangerous search for Vietnam's undetonated bombs*
*
QUANG TRI PROVINCE, Vietnam* - Though the war in Vietnam ended nearly 40 years ago, dangerous relics of the conflict still remain. CBS News recently followed demolition experts from Project Renew as they searched -- and found -- leftover bombs.

America dropped three times as many bombs in Vietnam as it did in World War II. Some estimates suggest as many as 10 percent didn't explode -- and are still waiting to kill.

 


20 Photos
*Look back: U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam*
One of our guides, Duong Tam, showed us how dangerous it can be. During the search we came across a bomb that Tam said was armed.

"If anyone picks it up, it can set it off," Tam cautioned.





Chuck Searcy, founder of Project Renew. Left, Searcy in 2015. Right, Searcy during Vietnam.
CBS News

Chuck Searcy founded Project Renew in 2001 shortly after he came back to Vietnam to still the anger of an idealistic young soldier in Saigon who had volunteered for the Army, specialized in military intelligence, and then turned against the war.

"I feel a responsibility to try to deal with the consequences of war that we left here, that the Vietnamese are still facing today," said Searcy.

The million dollars Searcy raises in grants and gifts helps Project Renew destroy 7,000 objects a year. No one knows how many more years, or decades, it will take to clean up Vietnam.

"I think Vietnam will never be ordinance free," said Searcy. "But what is realistic, what is an achievable goal, is making Vietnam safe."





Examples of bombs unearthed in Vietnam by Project Renew

Before demolition, nearby residents are warned away. Even the cows are evacuated. And then -- as it may for years to come -- Vietnam's countryside echoes with the sound of a long-ago war.

© 2015 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.


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## Viet

source: digital globe
new pictures from the south china sea

vietnamese island dao son ca (engl. sand cay). the island has expanded twice in size. new bunkers and artillery positions are added on the northwestern part of the island.















vietnamese island da tay (engl. west reef), a part of london reef.
military installations are scattered through the reefs.
















more of west reef


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## Viet

the temperature is rising in the south china sea. U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter is scheduled to visit Vietnam end of this month. a leftist media even speculates the US/JP alliance seeks a causus belli for a war against China. an unexpected (or initiated) incident could spark the powder keg.

Der amerikanische “Pivot to Asia” und die Kriegsvorbereitungen gegen China - World Socialist Web Site

Ash Carter says U.S. is opening new phase of Asia pivot

U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter is a hardliner. he promotes a tough policy toward china, including sending stealth bombers to the region as deterrence. I will post the outcome of his meeting in Hanoi with the Vietnamese government and army.


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## Viet

am I the lonely poster on this thread? where are all viet posters and friends, carlosa and others?

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## Viet

the government plans to tap FX reserves. Though it is not announced in details what is the purpose for the additional funds. but it is easy to guess: the arms race is a costly business. Vietnam needs to finance the accelerated military build-up and land reclamation in the south china sea.

One thing the government can always calculate with: the support of exile Vietnamese. the money and investments reached 20 billion USD last year. and will continue to increase further in the future.

Overseas Vietnamese Send $20 Billion Home Every Year

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> am I the lonely poster on this thread? where are all viet posters and friends, carlosa and others?



Long time no see! 

There is no point in posting and contributing to this thread if the forum admins and mods are biased against us Vietnamese. 

They are banning Vietnamese members and deleting our posts/threads at will but they allow Chinese trolls to freely insult and attack our people. No point in contributing posts if the admins and mods disrespect us. 

I won't be active anymore. I'll jump in from time to time to say hi.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> am I the lonely poster on this thread? where are all viet posters and friends, carlosa and others?



Carlosa is at the heartland of the evil empire at the moment (for 2 or 3 weeks) in China and I'm suffering from a terrible internet connection. So much for the new chinese superpower, even a $10 a day crappy hotel in Vietnam has better Wi FI connection than $50 a day chinese hotels and even at the companies that I work with here, the connection is also very slow and this is in the area right next to Shenzhen. Sorry, but I'm not going to be showing up here very often while in China, so you have to hold the flag bro. 

By the way, on top of the slow speed, can't get Gmail, Google search, Google news, anything Googgle in China, its all blocked and so is any url with the word "blog" in it and countless other websites such as Facebook. Life in china.............

@Viet @Yorozuya if there any interesting news at comcom, please post, can't get in there since its blocked in china. Life in china, what a liberating experience.......




Yorozuya said:


> Long time no see!
> 
> There is no point in posting and contributing to this thread if the forum admins and mods are biased against us Vietnamese.
> 
> They are banning Vietnamese members and deleting our posts/threads at will but they allow Chinese trolls to freely insult and attack our people. No point in contributing posts if the admins and mods disrespect us.
> 
> I won't be active anymore. I'll jump in from time to time to say hi.



Very well said, we need an alternative to this forum, hummm not a bad idea.

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Long time no see!
> 
> There is no point in posting and contributing to this thread if the forum admins and mods are biased against us Vietnamese.
> 
> They are banning Vietnamese members and deleting our posts/threads at will but they allow Chinese trolls to freely insult and attack our people. No point in contributing posts if the admins and mods disrespect us.
> 
> I won't be active anymore. I'll jump in from time to time to say hi.


hey stop. backing down is not our national character. I was thinking more than one time of the same, stopping posting on this forum. I know the Chinese mod here is quite biased. he almost gives free drive to his comrade posters. check how many times the word monkey is used. no matter if you complain or not.



Carlosa said:


> Carlosa is at the heartland of the evil empire at the moment (for 2 or 3 weeks) in China and I'm suffering from a terrible internet connection. So much for the new chinese superpower, even a $10 a day crappy hotel in Vietnam has better Wi FI connection than $50 a day chinese hotels and even at the companies that I work with here, the connection is also very slow and this is in the area right next to Shenzhen. Sorry, but I'm not going to be showing up here very often while in China, so you have to hold the flag bro.
> 
> By the way, on top of the slow speed, can't get Gmail, Google search, Google news, anything Googgle in China, its all blocked and so is any url with the word "blog" in it and countless other websites such as Facebook. Life in china.............
> 
> @Viet @Yorozuya if there any interesting news at comcom, please post, can't get in there since its blocked in china. Life in china, what a liberating experience.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very well said, we need an alternative to this forum, hummm not a bad idea.


Lol you are in the mouth of the evil empire?
pls share with us more of your experiences when you return.

some pic from comcom




































carlosa, as you are interested of rumours: comcom says the next Gepard may have a weight of 4,500 tons, with fleet defense capabilities. so if true, a class of destroyers is coming.

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## Viet

good against floods and... enemy landing attempts





the US embassador to Vietnam Mr Osius says, during the US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter visit to Vietnam at next week, military cooperation will be discussed. Vietnam has the option on the table by allowing US fighter jets and warships landing and accessing to Da Nang air and seaport as part of a close military partnership.





live firing exercise with t-55 tanks. the stock pile of 100mm munitions is enough for a war.

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## Viet

22 May 2015 – UN General Secretary Ban Ki-moon arrives for a two-day visit to Viet Nam. he shows extreme concern for the escalated tension in the south china sea. "It is important to avoid actions that would provoke or exacerbate tensions,” says he.










his wife















meeting with the government


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## Viet

a US warship during a visit to Da Nang.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> hey stop. backing down is not our national character. I was thinking more than one time of the same, stopping posting on this forum. I know the Chinese mod here is quite biased. he almost gives free drive to his comrade posters. check how many times the word monkey is used. no matter if you complain or not.



You can do whatever you want lol. I'm not backing down, I'm just not being stupid. I'm not here to fight anyway, just here to spread the message of peace and compassion. There have always been insults used in this section and biased moderation against Vietnamese members, nothing new. What I don't like is that they are now deleting my posts and threads at will, even though I didn't break any rule (and banning other viet members at will). At the same time the Chinese trolls are free to post flame baits, racist insults, as you have noticed.

You are free to continue posting, it's up to you. I won't, it's like the mods are spitting in your face and you still want to contribute good posts and generate traffic for their forum? You'll become a joke. I'm not that stupid.


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> You can do whatever you want lol. I'm not backing down, I'm just not being stupid. I'm not here to fight anyway, just here to spread the message of peace and compassion. There have always been insults used in this section and biased moderation against Vietnamese members, nothing new. What I don't like is that they are now deleting my posts and threads at will, even though I didn't break any rule (and banning other viet members at will). At the same time the Chinese trolls are free to post flame baits, racist insults, as you have noticed.
> 
> You are free to continue posting, it's up to you. I won't, it's like the mods are spitting in your face and you still want to contribute good posts and generate traffic for their forum? You'll become a joke. I'm not that stupid.



What you described is correct and frankly, its unacceptable. 

I think its time to think about creating an alternative site where we can discuss without discrimination and where we can concentrate on discussion, not fighting.

Some food for thought I think.



Viet said:


> the US embassador to Vietnam Mr Osius says, during the US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter visit to Vietnam at next week, military cooperation will be discussed. Vietnam has the option on the table by allowing US fighter jets and warships landing and accessing to Da Nang air and seaport as part of a close military partnership.



Very interesting news, where did you find those comments about basing US forces in Danang?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> hey stop. backing down is not our national character. I was thinking more than one time of the same, stopping posting on this forum. I know the Chinese mod here is quite biased. he almost gives free drive to his comrade posters. check how many times the word monkey is used. no matter if you complain or not.
> 
> 
> Lol you are in the mouth of the evil empire?
> pls share with us more of your experiences when you return.
> 
> some pic from comcom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> carlosa, as you are interested of rumours: comcom says the next Gepard may have a weight of 4,500 tons, with fleet defense capabilities. so if true, a class of destroyers is coming.



A Gepard of 4500 tons would no longer be a Gepard, it has to be something else and I think it would be more like the Admiral Gorshkov frigate which is 4500 tons. Very interesting. That Admiral Gorshkov frigate does have weapon systems that are more like a small destroyer including the fleet air defense system Redut - Poliment, so everything fits with what you said man.

When you say the Next Gepard, you don't mean the 2 that are under construction now right? You probably mean the third batch. That would be good.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> A Gepard of 4500 tons would no longer be a Gepard, it has to be something else and I think it would be more like the Admiral Gorshkov frigate which is 4500 tons. Very interesting. That Admiral Gorshkov frigate does have weapon systems that are more like a small destroyer including the fleet air defense system Redut - Poliment, so everything fits with what you said man.
> 
> When you say the Next Gepard, you don't mean the 2 that are under construction now right? You probably mean the *third batch*. That would be good.


exactly bro. I´m talking of the third batch of frigates. with fleet defense and land strike capabilities, that will become more a destroyer than a frigate. the new battleships (probably 6) would be able to take on chinese frigates and destroyers at open sea. head on. not sure about what airdefence system will be (redut or s-300 is a good bet), but RIA Novosti says Vietnam negotiates with Russia of building of warships, equipped with the Kalibr-NK, a high precision cruise missile, that can destroy enemy surface warships and land targets at ranges of up to 300 kilometers (190 miles).

Kalibr-NK is similar to Klub-S, that our subs currently possess.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very interesting news, where did you find those comments about basing US forces in Danang?


ha ha ha. actually it is my personal view and prediction. I read the news from difference sources, analyze, look behind official annoucements and put all the puzzles into a picture. that is the most likely scenario if the security situation worsens. what is expected to be. Da nang is the ideal candidate at present. Cam ranh bay can offer hosting US aircraft carrier and nuclear submarines. if required.

another piece of puzzles is for instance, not only the VCP boss is making a trip to America, but half of members of Polibuero. they are the guys, that hold the highest political power in Vietnam. I think the goal is clear for this year: lifting the rest of arms embargo, establishing a economic/military partnership with the US, short before a de facto alliance. the frequency how often both sides meet is amazing.

Vietnam, U.S. jointly hold Pacific security experts' meeting | Shanghai Daily



Yorozuya said:


> You can do whatever you want lol. I'm not backing down, I'm just not being stupid. I'm not here to fight anyway, just here to spread the message of peace and compassion. There have always been insults used in this section and biased moderation against Vietnamese members, nothing new. What I don't like is that they are now deleting my posts and threads at will, even though I didn't break any rule (and banning other viet members at will). At the same time the Chinese trolls are free to post flame baits, racist insults, as you have noticed.
> 
> You are free to continue posting, it's up to you. I won't, it's like the mods are spitting in your face and you still want to contribute good posts and generate traffic for their forum? You'll become a joke. I'm not that stupid.


bro, I will response later to you.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> exactly bro. I´m talking of the third batch of frigates. with fleet defense and land strike capabilities, that will become more a destroyer than a frigate. the new battleships (probably 6) would be able to take on chinese frigates and destroyers at open sea. head on. not sure about what airdefence system will be (redut or s-300 is a good bet), but RIA Novosti says Vietnam negotiates with Russia of building of warships, equipped with the Kalibr-NK, a high precision cruise missile, that can destroy enemy surface warships and land targets at ranges of up to 300 kilometers (190 miles).
> 
> Kalibr-NK is similar to Klub-S, that our subs currently possess.



Interesting, then it has to be the Admiral Gorshkov frigate or something equivalent.
No, the air defense system will not be the naval version of the S-300, that one would not fit, that one requires a big destroyer, so its probably the Redut - Poliment which actually uses the 2 shorter range missiles used in the S-400, one with a 40 km range and the other one with a 120-150 km range. That's already very good for a 4500 ton ship. That ship also uses a USSK 8 cell VLS system that can carry the Yakhon or Klub missiles so the Klub can be your land attack missiles right there.

Not bad at all.



Viet said:


> ha ha ha. actually it is my personal view and prediction. I read the news from difference sources, analyze, look behind official annoucements and put all the puzzles into a picture. that is the most likely scenario if the security situation worsens. what is expected to be. Da nang is the ideal candidate at present. Cam ranh bay can offer hosting US aircraft carrier and nuclear submarines. if required.
> 
> another piece of puzzles is for instance, not only the VCP boss is making a trip to America, but half of members of Polibuero. they are the guys, that hold the highest political power in Vietnam. I think the goal is clear for this year: lifting the rest of arms embargo, establishing a economic/military partnership with the US, short before a de facto alliance. the frequency how often both sides meet is amazing.
> 
> Vietnam, U.S. jointly hold Pacific security experts' meeting | Shanghai Daily
> 
> 
> bro, I will response later to you.



That's all very possible; we'll soon find out.

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## Viet

May 25. Surprised visit of General and defence minister Thanh to India, to PM Narendra Modi.
I make a bet: Thanh wants to know is there anything Vietnam needs to know about what Modi talked with China leader Xi Jinping recently.

@kaku1 do you know more info?

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## Viet

May 25, Hanoi. Japanese Airforce Chief General Harukazu Saito visits the Army Headquarter. Japan appears to want more co-operations and contacts with Vietnam People´s Army. the recent visit of two Japan P3 Patrol aircraft to Da nang airport for refueling is just the beginning.

@Nihonjin1051

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> May 25, Hanoi. Japanese Airforce Chief General Harukazu Saito visits the Army Headquarter. Japan appears to want more co-operations and contacts with Vietnam People´s Army. the recent visit of tow Japan P3 Patrol aircraft to Da nang airport for refueling is just the beginning.
> 
> @Nihonjin1051



@Nihonjin1051 Is it my imagination or are we witnessing the initial stages of a de facto military alliance between USA, Japan, Australia, Vietnam and the Philippines? There is a lot going on under the covers, we only know little bits and pieces of what is actually taking place or is being negotiated.

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## Viet

Su-30SM





Although Vietnam Airforce has not placed any order yet, but it appears the Su-30SM is the most likely next advanced fighter jet. Why Su-30SM, and not Su-35 (China airforce chooses Su-35S variant)?

Unlike Su-35, that only can carry Kh-31 and Kh-59 cruise missiles, *Su-30SM* can be equipped with India made supersonic cruise missile brahmos-A (specs: two stages, supersonic Mach 3, weight 2.5 tons, 300 kg warhead conventional, armor piercing or nuclear, 300-500km range, sea skimming, final terminal phase at 15 meters over sea level, active radar, GPS/Glonass guidance systems). the visit of General Thanh to India Prime Minister yesterday is a omen.

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## Viet

May 26
India and Vietnam Push Ahead with Strategic Security Cooperation | The Diplomat

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## Carlosa

*India, Vietnam ink 5-year defence pact amid Chinese naval expansion*
The document, for the period 2015-2020, was signed by the defence ministers of both countries after talks in New Delhi







A file photo of defence minister Manohar Parrikar. Photo: PTI
*New Delhi:*India and Vietnam late on Monday signed a five-year joint vision statement on defence cooperation to build closer strategic ties in the backdrop of an increasingly assertive China flexing its muscles in the South China Sea.
The document, for the period 2015-2020, was signed by India’s defence minister Manohar Parrikar and the Vietnamese minister for national defence General Phùng Quang Thanh after talks in New Delhi, according to a statement posted by India’s ministry of defence on social networking wesbite Facebook.
“An MoU (memorandum of understanding) on cooperation between the coast guards of the two countries was also signed in the presence of the two defence ministers,” the statement said without giving any details.
At the delegation level talks, the two sides discussed issues concerning defence cooperation, including cooperation in the area of maritime security.
“Both sides reiterated their commitment to further enhancing the ongoing defence engagements between the two sides for mutual benefit,” the statement added.
The signing of the document came on a day when Prime Minister Narendra Modi assured Thanh of India’s full commitment to the strategic partnership between the two countries during a meeting in New Delhi between the two.
Thanh, who arrived in New Delhi on Sunday, is on a three-day visit to India that comes amid growing concerns over China’s land reclamation project in the South China Sea, aimed at bolstering its territorial claims in the disputed area. The Chinese were looking at turning reefs into islands that can host airstrips and other military facilities, according to a_Reuters_news report.
According to news reports, the Vietnamese are keen on India training their submarirne personnel. India was also looking at selling the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile to Vietnam. But according to Indian government officials, the deal has not been finalised so far.
India and Vietnam, traditionally friendly countries, have forged an ever closer economic strategic relationship in the last decade after increasing Chinese territorial claims in the South China Sea as well as India’s own ‘Act East’ policy.
Last year, there were at least three high-level interactions between India and Vietnam in three months—foreign minister Sushma Swaraj visited Hanoi in August ahead of a visit by President Pranab Mukherjee in September. During Mukherjee’s visit, India extended Vietnam a $100 million line of credit for defence procurement. In October, Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung visited India.

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## Viet

_the dynamic increases, the train rolls. our old friend, POW, hardliner and China hater John McCain is coming. the second prominent guest, Jack Reed is a democratic Senator, a friend and supporter of Barack Obama. Unclear what policy he follows. the Pentagon Chief Ashton Carter is expected to be in Hanoi as well. Will we witness the negotiation of Vietnam joining the US/JP alliance? How will China react?_

_John McCain is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. a body that supervises the US Armed Forces. And for Vietnam, he has in the hand, the decision, if the arms embargo will be lifted completely._


*US senators, led by John McCain, to visit Vietnam*
Thanh Nien News

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 15:12






US Sen. John McCain in a file photo. Photo: Reuters

US senators John McCain and Jack Reed will lead a delegation of senators to Vietnam this week, AP reported.
The report quoted Reed’s office as saying the senators will meet with government officials and other Vietnamese leaders in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City to discuss *security and economic issues in the Asia-Pacific region*.

McCain, an Arizona Republican and former Vietnam prisoner of war, chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee while Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat, is the panel’s ranking member.

The visit is made in the context that Vietnam is celebrating 40 years since the end of the Vietnam War.

After Vietnam, the US delegation is scheduled to visit Singapore to take part in the 2015 Asia Security Summit, also known as the Shangri-La Dialogue, according to the report.

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## Viet

from a vietnamese defence website

vpk-news.ru reveals Vietnam pilots are expected to go to India for flight trainings on Su-30, before end of this year 2015. second, the general Manager of AVIAPROM (a body that coordinates between aircraft manufactures in the Russian Federation) states Irkut Corp., the Su-30 jet manufacture will deliver the latest advanced aircraft to Vietnam.

the stage is set for Su-30SM with brahmos-A cruise missile.

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> @Nihonjin1051 Is it my imagination or are we witnessing the initial stages of a de facto military alliance between USA, Japan, Australia, Vietnam and the Philippines? There is a lot going on under the covers, we only know little bits and pieces of what is actually taking place or is being negotiated.




Hahahaha, it seems that the analysis of Sir @gambit is coming true. It is top priority now for Japan to establish close military strategic relationship with Vietnam and the Philippines. Oh man, I'm so excited !!

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hahahaha, it seems that the analysis of Sir @gambit is coming true. It is top priority now for Japan to establish close military strategic relationship with Vietnam and the Philippines. Oh man, I'm so excited !!



These are the beginning steps of setting up the foundation of the Asia Pacific NATO.

Have to admit it man, China is really doing a superb job............. alienating everybody and bringing the whole region into an alliance against them and into the welcoming arms of the US. Even if they were to do it on purpose, they couldn't do a better job. Its so easy to see how their actions are actually so counterproductive to their own interest, but they just can't help it, its in their DNA to be aggressive and a bully. Cheers to that .



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Hahahaha, it seems that the analysis of Sir @gambit is coming true. It is top priority now for Japan to establish close military strategic relationship with Vietnam and the Philippines. Oh man, I'm so excited !!



Well, Japanese military planes are already flying into Vietnam and there are naval visits also, so you can bet that they are planning for a lot more than that.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Interesting, then it has to be the Admiral Gorshkov frigate or something equivalent.
> No, the air defense system will not be the naval version of *the S-300*, that one would not fit, that one requires a big destroyer, so its probably the Redut - Poliment which actually uses the 2 shorter range missiles used in the S-400, one with a 40 km range and the other one with a 120-150 km range. That's already very good for a 4500 ton ship. That ship also uses a USSK 8 cell VLS system that can carry the Yakhon or Klub missiles so the Klub can be your land attack missiles right there.
> 
> Not bad at all.
> 
> 
> 
> That's all very possible; we'll soon find out.


you got the point. s-300 is too big for a 4,500 tons ship. more for a 8,000 tons plus.

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## Viet

a rare visit from our neighbor Thailand. off-shore patrol vessel HTMS Narathiwat from the Thai Royal Navy arrived in Saigon on May 26, starting its visit to Vietnam till May 31.

this ship is more a warship than patrol ship.

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## Viet

*PMP *

once invented and produced in the Soviet Union, vietnam made PMP floating bridge.
a typical bridge spans 390 m with 32 river pontoons.


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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> Su-30SM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although Vietnam Airforce has not placed any order yet, but it appears the Su-30SM is the most likely next advanced fighter jet. Why Su-30SM, and not Su-35 (China airforce chooses Su-35S variant)?
> 
> Unlike Su-35, that only can carry Kh-31 and Kh-59 cruise missiles, *Su-30SM* can be equipped with India made supersonic cruise missile brahmos-A (specs: two stages, supersonic Mach 3, weight 2.5 tons, 300 kg warhead conventional, armor piercing or nuclear, 300-500km range, sea skimming, final terminal phase at 15 meters over sea level, active radar, GPS/Glonass guidance systems). the visit of General Thanh to India Prime Minister yesterday is a omen.



India is also planning a satellite station in Vietnam so that we can provide our eqvivlant of GPS/Glonass to you



Viet said:


> from a vietnamese defence website
> 
> vpk-news.ru reveals Vietnam pilots are expected to go to India for flight trainings on Su-30, before end of this year 2015. second, the general Manager of AVIAPROM (a body that coordinates between aircraft manufactures in the Russian Federation) states Irkut Corp., the Su-30 jet manufacture will deliver the latest advanced aircraft to Vietnam.
> 
> the stage is set for Su-30SM with brahmos-A cruise missile.
> 
> View attachment 224943



Great news long live indo-vietnamese ties

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## Viet

*Su-30MK2*

Night attack exercise








Landing on highways and short runways.


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## Carlosa

Echo_419 said:


> Great news long live indo-vietnamese ties



HARI OM TAT SAT


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## Viet

_another high level visit to Vietnam, this time a guest from south korea._

*Seoul's defense chief leaves for Vietnam for bilateral talks *
2015/05/27 Yonhap






SEOUL, May 27 (Yonhap) -- South Korean Defense Minister Han Min-koo headed to Vietnam on Wednesday for talks with his counterpart there to explore ways to boost military cooperation, his office said.

During his three-day visit, Han is scheduled to meet with Phung Quang Thanh to discuss ways to boost cooperation in the defense field based upon the nations' "strategic cooperation partnership" clinched in 2009, according to Seoul's defense ministry.

"The two sides will also sign a memorandum of understanding on the bilateral *Acquisition and Cross-Servicing Agreement *(ACSA) to lay the institutional groundwork for bilateral defense cooperation," the ministry said.

Seoul and Hanoi have discussed the signing of the agreement, which is the framework for logistics cooperation between armed forces, since 2011, with Seoul clinching the deal with major global powers including the United States and Australia.

Han is also to visit the* Vietnamese military's elite unit of the mechanized division*, and pay a courtesy call to the president, according to the Seoul ministry.

Following the trip to Vietnam, the defense chief will fly to Singapore on Friday to attend the Asia Security Summit, also known as the Shangri-La Dialogue.

On the sidelines of the three-day dialogue to run until Sunday, Han plans to hold bilateral talks with his counterparts from the U.S. and Japan, as well as other regional partners, and hold a trilateral meeting with Washington and Tokyo, according to his office.

"How to better deal with ever-growing threats from* North Korea* will be the primary topic for a series of discussions in Singapore," a defense ministry official said, without further elaboration.

After wrapping up his military diplomacy, Han is to return home on Monday.



######


_May 28 Hanoi
Defence Minister Phung Quang Thanh and his Korean counterpart Han Min-koo._


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## Viet

_lastest news from the Kilo #4, Đà Nẵng._

the Dutch heavy transporter vessel Rolldock Storm has reached the West coast of Africa, heading to Indian ocean. expected to reach Singapore port at June 26 and Cam ranh bay at June 29 or 30.

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## Viet

Air Platforms
*Vietnam deepens industrial ties with France and India*
*
Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
27 May 2015

Vietnam has deepened defence industrial ties with France and India as part of Hanoi's efforts to secure technology transfers and develop indigenous capabilities.

State media in Hanoi reported on 27 May that senior officials from Vietnam's Ministry of National Defence (MND) and the international development arm of the French Ministry of Defence's Directorate General of Armaments (DGA) have agreed in meetings in Hanoi to explore further areas of defence industrial collaboration and related technology transfers and training.

Two days earlier Vietnam's defence minister Phung Quang Thanh signed a similar agreement in New Delhi with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar.

According to Vietnam's state media, representatives of France's DGA outlined a commitment to co-operate with Vietnam in modernising the country's armed forces through a programme of industrial collaboration.


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## Viet

_Yeah why not. Our army can take the offer, do fight trainings on the vast Russian territory. In this world, there is no place for the weak. Either you die or your enemy._


Russia To Build Hundreds of Drones For Its Military By 2025

Despite economic woe, Russia continues to invest huge money into the modernization of the Armed Forces. In February 2015, Russia is reported entering into negotiation with *Vietnam* to conduct joint naval and air force drills as well as ground troops and air assault troops.

besides, Vietnam is reportedly interested to buying Russian strategic Iskander missile system (ground to ground), if necessary, to strike and neutralize enemy ballistic missile systems in the region. Iskander can carry either a conventional or nuclear warhead.

I read this news some time ago, but there is not much seen yet. there is report on comcom, Vietnam sent a group of soliers to the last strategic missile excercice in Russia involving Iskander.

The Iskander-M ballistic missile can carry a warhead of 800 kg to a distance of 400–500 kilometers with accuracy of 5 meters. Export version E has a shorter range and smaller warhead.


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> a rare visit from our neighbor Thailand. off-shore patrol vessel HTMS Narathiwat from the Thai Royal Navy arrived in Saigon on May 26, starting its visit to Vietnam till May 31.
> 
> this ship is more a warship than patrol ship.



this ship is actually a chinese-built ones , an offshore patrol vessel that a bit like the Saryu , recently there is rumor that soon VN will also export our patrol boat (TP-400TP) to a certain country in ASEAN


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Carlosa is at the heartland of the evil empire at the moment (for 2 or 3 weeks) in China and I'm suffering from a terrible internet connection. So much for the new chinese superpower, even a $10 a day crappy hotel in Vietnam has better Wi FI connection than $50 a day chinese hotels and even at the companies that I work with here, the connection is also very slow and this is in the area right next to Shenzhen. Sorry, but I'm not going to be showing up here very often while in China, so you have to hold the flag bro.
> 
> By the way, on top of the slow speed, can't get Gmail, Google search, Google news, anything Googgle in China, its all blocked and so is any url with the word "blog" in it and countless other websites such as Facebook. Life in china.............
> 
> @Viet @Yorozuya if there any interesting news at comcom, please post, can't get in there since its blocked in china. Life in china, what a liberating experience.......


Thank god they allowed .pk. 



Viet said:


> May 25. Surprised visit of General and defence minister Thanh to India, to PM Narendra Modi.
> I make a bet: Thanh wants to know is there anything Vietnam needs to know about what Modi talked with China leader Xi Jinping recently.
> 
> @kaku1 do you know more info?




All are secrets bro,, and its very unusual that South Block ( Indian Foreign Ministry ) broke the protocol and he met directly with Prime Minister.



Viet said:


> May 26
> India and Vietnam Push Ahead with Strategic Security Cooperation | The Diplomat



For general public, ISRO setting up ground stations in Vietnam. 

And maybe multi-object tracking radar is in list by ISRO, that can be used as detecting ballistic missiles during event of war.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Thank god they allowed .pk.



But imagine it china were to block PDF, all those chinese trolls would not be able to be in PDF. Now that would be a healthy step for PDF.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> *India, Vietnam ink 5-year defence pact amid Chinese naval expansion*
> The document, for the period 2015-2020, was signed by the defence ministers of both countries after talks in New Delhi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A file photo of defence minister Manohar Parrikar. Photo: PTI
> *New Delhi:*India and Vietnam late on Monday signed a five-year joint vision statement on defence cooperation to build closer strategic ties in the backdrop of an increasingly assertive China flexing its muscles in the South China Sea.
> The document, for the period 2015-2020, was signed by India’s defence minister Manohar Parrikar and the Vietnamese minister for national defence General Phùng Quang Thanh after talks in New Delhi, according to a statement posted by India’s ministry of defence on social networking wesbite Facebook.
> “An MoU (memorandum of understanding) on cooperation between the coast guards of the two countries was also signed in the presence of the two defence ministers,” the statement said without giving any details.
> At the delegation level talks, the two sides discussed issues concerning defence cooperation, including cooperation in the area of maritime security.
> “Both sides reiterated their commitment to further enhancing the ongoing defence engagements between the two sides for mutual benefit,” the statement added.
> The signing of the document came on a day when Prime Minister Narendra Modi assured Thanh of India’s full commitment to the strategic partnership between the two countries during a meeting in New Delhi between the two.
> Thanh, who arrived in New Delhi on Sunday, is on a three-day visit to India that comes amid growing concerns over China’s land reclamation project in the South China Sea, aimed at bolstering its territorial claims in the disputed area. The Chinese were looking at turning reefs into islands that can host airstrips and other military facilities, according to a_Reuters_news report.
> According to news reports, the Vietnamese are keen on India training their submarirne personnel. India was also looking at selling the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile to Vietnam. But according to Indian government officials, the deal has not been finalised so far.
> India and Vietnam, traditionally friendly countries, have forged an ever closer economic strategic relationship in the last decade after increasing Chinese territorial claims in the South China Sea as well as India’s own ‘Act East’ policy.
> Last year, there were at least three high-level interactions between India and Vietnam in three months—foreign minister Sushma Swaraj visited Hanoi in August ahead of a visit by President Pranab Mukherjee in September. During Mukherjee’s visit, India extended Vietnam a $100 million line of credit for defence procurement. In October, Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung visited India.



One question, you need to ask from where Vietnam can ask nuclear guarantees? What are the options for Vietnam in long term, strategically speaking.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Thank god they allowed .pk.



I just found out about the movie PK, is that what you were talking about? I thought you meant PDF when you said PK.



kaku1 said:


> One question, you need to ask from where Vietnam can ask nuclear guarantees? What are the options for Vietnam in long term, strategically speaking.



Nuclear guarantees is not an easy thing to get.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Nuclear guarantees is not an easy thing to get.


Yes not easy, but Vietnam have two options for future:- 

First is USA and second is India.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Yes not easy, but Vietnam have two options for future:-
> 
> First is USA and second is India.



I think Vietnam needs some guidance from Ganeshji at this crucial times, the remover of obstacles.


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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Yes not easy, but Vietnam have two options for future:-
> 
> First is USA and second is *India*.


will India be ready to provide nuclear umbrella?


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## kaku1

Viet said:


> will India be ready to provide nuclear umbrella?



Question is, India and US why not provide nuclear guarantees to Vietnam in future?


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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Question is, India and *US* why not provide nuclear guarantees to Vietnam in future?


Right now, among the many powerful US Senators visiting to Vietnam is the hardliner John McCain. many say he is a warmonger. Also the Pentagon Chief Ashton Carter. All of them are in Vietnam for secret talks. A alliance with US/JP is a very possibility as the Chinese show no sign of compromise. if we join, a nuclear umbrella is a must. Plus we will demand a massive military aid for a possible negative response from China.

a decision can be made during the upcoming visit of the VCP boss and his Politburo members to Washington.

Alaska Sen. Sullivan to join Sen. McCain on trip to Vietnam - Fairbanks Daily News-Miner: Alaska News

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## kaku1

Viet said:


> Right now, among the many powerful US Senators visiting to Vietnam is the hardliner John McCain. many say he is a warmonger. Also the Pentagon Chief Ashton Carter. All of them are in Vietnam for secret talks. A alliance with US/JP is a very possibility as the Chinese show no sign of compromise. if we join, a nuclear umbrella is a must. Plus we will demand a massive military aid for a possible negative response from China.
> 
> a decision can be made during the upcoming visit of the VCP boss and his Politburo members to Washington.
> 
> Alaska Sen. Sullivan to join Sen. McCain on trip to Vietnam - Fairbanks Daily News-Miner: Alaska News



Actually you not able to see big picture,

In the end Vietnam would be part of QSD for which US and Japan trying harder.



Viet said:


> Right now, among the many powerful US Senators visiting to Vietnam is the hardliner John McCain. many say he is a warmonger. Also the Pentagon Chief Ashton Carter. All of them are in Vietnam for secret talks. A alliance with US/JP is a very possibility as the Chinese show no sign of compromise. if we join, a nuclear umbrella is a must. Plus we will demand a massive military aid for a possible negative response from China.
> 
> a decision can be made during the upcoming visit of the VCP boss and his Politburo members to Washington.
> 
> Alaska Sen. Sullivan to join Sen. McCain on trip to Vietnam - Fairbanks Daily News-Miner: Alaska News



One thing nuclear sharing/guarantees only happen if Vietnam ,India and USA create a permanent militaristic alliance.

The Vietnam get the same nuclear guarantees that what the Japan receiving now.


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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Actually you not able to see big picture,
> 
> In the end Vietnam would be part of *QSD* for which US and Japan trying harder.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing nuclear sharing/guarantees only happen if Vietnam ,India and USA create a permanent militaristic alliance.
> 
> The Vietnam get the same nuclear guarantees that what the Japan receiving now.


what is QSD?
will India abandon the actual non-alignment policy?

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## kaku1

Viet said:


> what is QSD?


Quadrilateral Security Dialogue. Ultimately it took shape of military treaty. And definitely Vietnam, Philippines and Singapore would be founding members of this treaty.

But I doubt about other ASEAN members, one thing it would change the whole balance of power in Asia,

and for Vietnam, it become much more powerful in South East Asia. The Indonesia or Malaysia not gonna like this. They definitely kick the Vietnam out from ASEAN, ultimately ASEAN become irrelevant. 



> will India abandon the actual non-alignment policy?



NAM policies is already abandoned, currently India just playing game to delay the choosing of a side, but ultimately it choose.

Its crystal clear now, why PM Shinzo Abe is in so much love with PM Modi.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Navy*

so slowly we understand why the Gepard frigates #3 and #4 are more expensive ($350 million each) than the first pair. the frigate will be designed as truly multirole warship, equipped with ASW, torpedo tubes, SAM and ship generators with improved features. the most important improvement is increased SAM firepower. so the first pair Gepard frigate´s capability to defeat incoming enemy antiship missiles is weak.

As for SAM, besides 2 x 30mm 6K30GSh cannons, it is Sosna-R Palma x 8 missile system

laser-guided supersonic surface-to-air missile
designed to engage aircraft, guided aerial bombs and cruise missiles at ranges between 1,300 and 8,000 meters at altitudes of up to 3,500 meters
highly maneuverable, can withstand 52g
engage airborne targets flying at altitudes above two meters
top speed Mach 4

Sosnar-R Palma artillery missile system

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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Quadrilateral Security Dialogue. Ultimately it took shape of military treaty. And definitely Vietnam, Philippines and Singapore would be founding members of this treaty.
> 
> But I doubt about other ASEAN members, one thing it would change the whole balance of power in Asia,
> 
> and for Vietnam, it become much more powerful in South East Asia. The Indonesia or Malaysia not gonna like this. They definitely kick the Vietnam out from ASEAN, ultimately ASEAN become irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> NAM policies is already abandoned, currently India just playing game to delay the choosing of a side, but ultimately it choose.
> 
> Its crystal clear now, why PM Shinzo Abe is in so much love with PM Modi.


also, I think sooner or later a regional military alliance is necessary. it will come. inevitably.

why?

China will not compromise. why should China ease arrogance and aggression? there is no reason to do so. she considers Vietnam and other small nations are weak, betting nobody will stand up. as for Asean, Cambodia gets chinese payments for sabotage and denial. other weaklings and cowards as Malaysia and Indonesia will never have the guts to confront the bully and help Vietnam or Philippines. Thailand and Burma have their own domestic problems, no interest no stakes in the SC Sea. I wish our nations India and Vietnam can do more together, for instance more cooperations of building warships, aircraft, cruise missiles, space technology, nuclear energy, etc. aka defence industry.

bro, we live in a world, where there is no place for the weak.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the most important improvement is increased SAM firepower. so the first pair Gepard frigate´s capability to defeat incoming enemy antiship missiles is weak.
> 
> As for SAM, besides 2 x 30mm 6K30GSh cannons, it is Sosna-R Palma x 8 missile system
> 
> laser-guided supersonic surface-to-air missile
> designed to engage aircraft, guided aerial bombs and cruise missiles at ranges between 1,300 and 8,000 meters at altitudes of up to 3,500 meters
> highly maneuverable, can withstand 52g
> engage airborne targets flying at altitudes above two meters
> top speed Mach 4
> 
> Sosnar-R Palma artillery missile system



What increased SAM firepower? Its exactly the same as in the first 2 Gepards. I don't see the reasons for the big price difference.



Viet said:


> also, I think sooner or later a regional military alliance is necessary. it will come. inevitably.
> 
> why?
> 
> China will not compromise. why should China ease arrogance and aggression? there is no reason to do so. she considers Vietnam and other small nations are weak, betting nobody will stand up. as for Asean, Cambodia gets chinese payments for sabotage and denial. other weaklings and cowards as Malaysia and Indonesia will never have the guts to confront the bully and help Vietnam or Philippines. Thailand and Burma have their own domestic problems, no interest no stakes in the SC Sea. I wish our nations India and Vietnam can do more together, for instance more cooperations of building warships, aircraft, cruise missiles, space technology, nuclear energy, etc. aka defence industry.
> 
> bro, we live in a world, where there is no place for the weak.



As I said a few days ago, these are the first steps towards the foundation of the Asia Pacific Nato.



Viet said:


> As for SAM, besides 2 x 30mm 6K30GSh cannons, it is Sosna-R Palma x 8 missile system
> 
> laser-guided supersonic surface-to-air missile
> designed to engage aircraft, guided aerial bombs and cruise missiles at ranges between 1,300 and 8,000 meters at altitudes of up to 3,500 meters
> highly maneuverable, can withstand 52g
> engage airborne targets flying at altitudes above two meters
> top speed Mach 4
> 
> Sosnar-R Palma artillery missile system



Palma is a crappy air defense system, That's why the Russian navy does not use it, its only for export.

It can only hit targets traveling up to a speed of mach 1.5, that's too little.
The laser guidance system will not work in heavy rain / fog. Useless.


----------



## kaku1

Viet said:


> also, I think sooner or later a regional military alliance is necessary. it will come. inevitably.


This is inevitable, and Shinzo Abe is on front foot to create such a alliance.



> as for Asean, Cambodia gets chinese payments for sabotage and denial. other weaklings and cowards as Malaysia and Indonesia will never have the guts to confront the bully and help Vietnam or Philippines. Thailand and Burma have their own domestic problems, no interest no stakes in the SC Sea.


During late 70s, Singapore asked the security guarantees from India, and the agreement was signed that in case Indonesia invade Singapore, then India send a fleet of its navy including carrier and a division of Indian Army to protect Singapore. Singapore was very threatened by East Timor crisis.

But this time we see a formal treaty that would be signed by India, USA, Japan, Australia, Vietnam, Philippines and Singapore.

I dont expect Indonesia join this, he already think he is big brother of South East Asia, but as the Japan and India jumped inside the politics of South East Asia, and rolled there dice and play a new great game. The Indonesia definitely feel threatened and ask security guarantees from PRC.




> I wish our nations India and Vietnam can do more together, for instance more cooperations of building warships, aircraft, cruise missiles, space technology, nuclear energy, etc. aka defence industry.


Definitely bro, ISRO already setting up Ground Stations in Vietnam.

Behind the scene whats going om, you can conclude this that what Ground Station actually means.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Quadrilateral Security Dialogue. Ultimately it took shape of military treaty. And definitely Vietnam, Philippines and Singapore would be founding members of this treaty.
> 
> But I doubt about other ASEAN members, one thing it would change the whole balance of power in Asia,
> 
> and for Vietnam, it become much more powerful in South East Asia. The Indonesia or Malaysia not gonna like this. They definitely kick the Vietnam out from ASEAN, ultimately ASEAN become irrelevant.
> 
> 
> 
> NAM policies is already abandoned, currently India just playing game to delay the choosing of a side, but ultimately it choose.
> 
> Its crystal clear now, why PM Shinzo Abe is in so much love with PM Modi.



QSD is the starting step for what I call the Asia Pacific Nato. I think its going to speed up big time. Thanks China, you couldn't even be any more stupid (to your own interest) even if you were to do it on purpose.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> What increased SAM firepower? Its exactly the same as in the first 2 Gepards. I don't see the reasons for the big price difference.
> 
> As I said a few days ago, these are the first steps towards the foundation of the Asia Pacific Nato.
> 
> Palma is a crappy air defense system, That's why the Russian navy does not use it, its only for export.
> 
> It can only hit targets traveling up to a speed of mach 1.5, that's too little.
> The laser guidance system will not work in heavy rain / fog. Useless.


Aaaaaa...what is the better choice for our warships to defeat chinese antiship missiles?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Aaaaaa...what is the better choice for our warships to defeat chinese antiship missiles?



If you are talking about western systems that can fit there, MICA, Barak 8, (ideal system), Umkhonto, CAMM, etc.
If you are talking Russian: Shtil, Redut - Poliment, Naval Pantsir.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> If you are talking about western systems that can fit there, MICA, Barak 8, (ideal system), Umkhonto, CAMM, etc.
> If you are talking Russian: Shtil, Redut - Poliment, Naval Pantzir.


is Vladimir Putin selling rubbish to his Viet comrades?
Shtil-1 was mentioned as SAM for our Gepards, but I don´t know what happened.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> is Vladimir Putin selling rubbish to his Viet comrades?



No, the problem is that Vietnam made a choice for the cheapest, simplest of all the Gepard variants. There were much better choices, but Vietnam is getting what it has chosen.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> No, the problem is that Vietnam made a choice for the cheapest, simplest of all the Gepard variants. There were much better choices, but Vietnam is getting what it has chosen.



Firstly, Vietnam made a huge mistake in choosing a Russian platform.

And if they gone Russian, I dont know why the hell Vietnam not asked advanced version of Talwar class, the russians offering this platform to India since 2011.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> Firstly, Vietnam made a huge mistake in choosing a Russian platform.
> 
> And if they gone Russian, I dont know why the hell Vietnam not asked advanced version of Talwar class, the russians offering this platform to India since 2011.



I definitely agree, but Vietnam's opening to western weapon systems has been very recent, so they went with what they knew and that's Russia. Oh well.

It seems like the intention with the first batch of the Gepards was to order cheap and simple in order to reduce risk since they had problems earlier with the failed project of the BPS-500, etc.


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## Carlosa

*Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China*






By Kris Osborn | Thursday, May 28th, 2015 5:55 pm
Posted in Land
Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China | DoD Buzz

Lawmakers are hoping to arm and train U.S. allies in the Pacific as a way to counter China’s increasingly assertive behavior in the region.

As part of a markup of the 2016 defense bill, lawmakers from the Senate Armed Services Committee, or SASC, have added a “China Sea Initiative” designed to challenge China’s activities by supporting U.S. allies in the region.

The legislation is designed, in part, to address China’s ongoing effort to build artificial islands in the South China Sea to bolster territorial claims in the region.

The new language, inserted by SASC Chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., seeks to provide funds to train and equip allied countries in the region such as Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam.

The new directive is designed “to provide assistance to national military or other security forces of such countries that have among their functional responsibilities maritime security missions,” the proposed language states.

If adopted in the final conferenced version of the Bill later this summer, this provision will provide up to $425 million for this mission over the next five years, including $50 million in 2016.

Over just the past year, China has added more than 1,500 acres of new artificial territory to its island areas in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said.

While U.S. defense officials decline to speculate as to why this is occurring and say they’d like to see more “transparency” from China regarding these actions, the moves appear to be a clear effort to bolster territorial claims in the Spratly Island region and South China Sea.

The Spratly Islands includes an area of more than 750 reefs, small islands and atolls in the South China Sea off the coasts of the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam. Highly disputed for centuries, the area is rich in oil and natural gas. Countries claiming rights to territory in the Spratly Islands include China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, and Brunei.

The South China Sea includes strategically vital waterways, important to international trade. In a recent speech in Hawaii, as part of a trip through the Asia Pacific region, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter criticized China’s artificial island-building and said the U.S. would not be deterred by China’s moves.

“The United States will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows, as we do all around the world. With its actions in the South China Sea, China is out of step with both international norms that underscore the Asia-Pacific’s security architecture and the regional consensus in favor of a non-coercive approach to this and other long-standing disputes,” he said.

“We will remain the principal security power in the Asia-Pacific for decades to come,” he said.

Alongside the new provision, McCain and SASC ranking democrat Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., sent a letter to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter outlining their concerns regarding China’s behavior in the region and asking Carter to strengthen the U.S. military response to the issue.

Among other things, the letter argues that China should not be invited to participate in the upcoming 2016 Rim of the Pacific multi-national military exercise slated to take place in Hawaii.

“Given China’s behavior in the past year alone, including its disregard for the interests of our allies, international law and established norms, we do not believe Beijing should have been invited to this prestigious U.S.-led military exercise in 2016,” the letter states.

China participated in the most recent Rim of the Pacific exercise in 2014 and drew criticism for bringing an intelligence gathering ship to the event, an occurrence the letter makes reference to.

While the lawmakers do cite the importance of sustaining a military-to-military relationship with China, they caution that more should be done to challenge China’s coercive and “bullying” behavior throughout the region.

Carter added that China’s actions are inspiring countries in the area to come together and said the situation calls for greater U.S. involvement.

“The reason that the United States and everyone else in the region has a stake in this, is because it gets to the question of freedom of navigation, freedom of the seas, freedom from coercion, abiding by peaceful and lawful processes, and that is, again, a longstanding U.S. position, as it freedom of flying, freedom to sail,” Carter told reporters while traveling through the area.

These comments from Carter after China formally protested the flight of a U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon surveillance plane over areas where China was reclaiming land to build an island.

China’s assertive behavior in the region appears, at least to some extent, to be based upon its territorial claims in the South China Sea referred to as the nine-dash-line.

China appears to claim most, if not all of the South China Sea through its so-called nine-dash line, which vaguely asserts control, access and sovereignty over 1.4 million square miles of islands, Pentagon officials said.

Although U.S. officials say China has not clearly articulated what it means, the nine-dash line can be traced back to China’s ruling party from 1928 to 1949 – the Koumintang. The Koumintang retreated to Taiwan in 1949 when the Communist Party of China took over following civil war in the country, however the concept of the nine-dash line has endured.

The U.S. has officially gone on record saying that the People’s Republic of China’s nine-dash line is not in accordance with existing international law. In fact, McCain and Reed’s letter specifically says the U.S. government should do more to challenge the legality of China’s nine-dash-line claim.

– Kris Osborn can be reached at Kris.Osborn@military.com

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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Firstly, Vietnam made a huge mistake in choosing a Russian platform.
> 
> And if they gone Russian, I dont know why the hell Vietnam not asked advanced version of Talwar class, the russians offering this platform to India since 2011.


I don´t think it is a mistake. just we lack of money, hence the cheap gepard warship. how much is Talwar?


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## kaku1

Viet said:


> I don´t think it is a mistake. just we lack of money, hence the cheap gepard warship. how much is Talwar?


$300-350 mil with weapon package.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Kris Osborn | Thursday, May 28th, 2015 5:55 pm
> Posted in Land
> Congress Seeks to Arm U.S. Allies in the Pacific to Counter China | DoD Buzz
> 
> Lawmakers are hoping to arm and train U.S. allies in the Pacific as a way to counter China’s increasingly assertive behavior in the region.
> 
> As part of a markup of the 2016 defense bill, lawmakers from the Senate Armed Services Committee, or SASC, have added a “China Sea Initiative” designed to challenge China’s activities by supporting U.S. allies in the region.
> 
> The legislation is designed, in part, to address China’s ongoing effort to build artificial islands in the South China Sea to bolster territorial claims in the region.
> 
> The new language, inserted by SASC Chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., seeks to provide funds to train and equip allied countries in the region such as Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam.
> 
> The new directive is designed “to provide assistance to national military or other security forces of such countries that have among their functional responsibilities maritime security missions,” the proposed language states.
> 
> If adopted in the final conferenced version of the Bill later this summer, this provision will provide up to $425 million for this mission over the next five years, including $50 million in 2016.
> 
> Over just the past year, China has added more than 1,500 acres of new artificial territory to its island areas in the South China Sea, Pentagon officials said.
> 
> While U.S. defense officials decline to speculate as to why this is occurring and say they’d like to see more “transparency” from China regarding these actions, the moves appear to be a clear effort to bolster territorial claims in the Spratly Island region and South China Sea.
> 
> The Spratly Islands includes an area of more than 750 reefs, small islands and atolls in the South China Sea off the coasts of the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam. Highly disputed for centuries, the area is rich in oil and natural gas. Countries claiming rights to territory in the Spratly Islands include China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, and Brunei.
> 
> The South China Sea includes strategically vital waterways, important to international trade. In a recent speech in Hawaii, as part of a trip through the Asia Pacific region, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter criticized China’s artificial island-building and said the U.S. would not be deterred by China’s moves.
> 
> “The United States will fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows, as we do all around the world. With its actions in the South China Sea, China is out of step with both international norms that underscore the Asia-Pacific’s security architecture and the regional consensus in favor of a non-coercive approach to this and other long-standing disputes,” he said.
> 
> “We will remain the principal security power in the Asia-Pacific for decades to come,” he said.
> 
> Alongside the new provision, McCain and SASC ranking democrat Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., sent a letter to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter outlining their concerns regarding China’s behavior in the region and asking Carter to strengthen the U.S. military response to the issue.
> 
> Among other things, the letter argues that China should not be invited to participate in the upcoming 2016 Rim of the Pacific multi-national military exercise slated to take place in Hawaii.
> 
> “Given China’s behavior in the past year alone, including its disregard for the interests of our allies, international law and established norms, we do not believe Beijing should have been invited to this prestigious U.S.-led military exercise in 2016,” the letter states.
> 
> China participated in the most recent Rim of the Pacific exercise in 2014 and drew criticism for bringing an intelligence gathering ship to the event, an occurrence the letter makes reference to.
> 
> While the lawmakers do cite the importance of sustaining a military-to-military relationship with China, they caution that more should be done to challenge China’s coercive and “bullying” behavior throughout the region.
> 
> Carter added that China’s actions are inspiring countries in the area to come together and said the situation calls for greater U.S. involvement.
> 
> “The reason that the United States and everyone else in the region has a stake in this, is because it gets to the question of freedom of navigation, freedom of the seas, freedom from coercion, abiding by peaceful and lawful processes, and that is, again, a longstanding U.S. position, as it freedom of flying, freedom to sail,” Carter told reporters while traveling through the area.
> 
> These comments from Carter after China formally protested the flight of a U.S. Navy P-8A Poseidon surveillance plane over areas where China was reclaiming land to build an island.
> 
> China’s assertive behavior in the region appears, at least to some extent, to be based upon its territorial claims in the South China Sea referred to as the nine-dash-line.
> 
> China appears to claim most, if not all of the South China Sea through its so-called nine-dash line, which vaguely asserts control, access and sovereignty over 1.4 million square miles of islands, Pentagon officials said.
> 
> Although U.S. officials say China has not clearly articulated what it means, the nine-dash line can be traced back to China’s ruling party from 1928 to 1949 – the Koumintang. The Koumintang retreated to Taiwan in 1949 when the Communist Party of China took over following civil war in the country, however the concept of the nine-dash line has endured.
> 
> The U.S. has officially gone on record saying that the People’s Republic of China’s nine-dash line is not in accordance with existing international law. In fact, McCain and Reed’s letter specifically says the U.S. government should do more to challenge the legality of China’s nine-dash-line claim.
> 
> – Kris Osborn can be reached at Kris.Osborn@military.com


$50m budget a year to arm US allies in the Pacific? I´m afraid it is too litle. Anyway it is a good start.



kaku1 said:


> $300-350 mil with weapon package.


sounds good to me. I wonder why our navy does not pick it.



Carlosa said:


> I definitely agree, but Vietnam's opening to western weapon systems has been very recent, so they went with what they knew and that's Russia. Oh well.
> 
> It seems like the intention with the first batch of the Gepards was to order cheap and simple in order to reduce risk since they had problems earlier with the failed project of the BPS-500, etc.


what says your contact at the navy? is our gepard too weak to confront chinese frigate and destroyer?

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> It seems like the intention with the first batch of the Gepards was to order cheap and simple in order to reduce risk since they had problems earlier with the failed project of the BPS-500, etc.


But right now Indian Navy almost using them over a decade.

Even Vietnam can ask training for its sailors from India for its talwar class. And can order spare parts from India for its frigate.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> sounds good to me. I wonder why our navy does not pick it.



Because the right people didn't get the red envelope. 



kaku1 said:


> But right now Indian Navy almost using them over a decade.
> 
> Even Vietnam can ask training for its sailors from India for its talwar class. And can order spare parts from India for its frigate.



I don't know, but it seems to me that some of the people that make purchasing decisions for the navy are either incompetent or corrupted.



Viet said:


> what says your contact at the navy? is our gepard too weak to confront chinese frigate and destroyer?



My navy contact said that the navy *DOES NOT LIKE* the Gepards, they didn't want them, but the higher ups made the decision anyway. Yes, the Gepards are not strong enough to confront the chinese.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Because the right people didn't get the red envelope.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know, but it seems to me that some of the people that make purchasing decisions for the navy are either incompetent or corrupted.
> 
> 
> 
> My navy contact said that the navy *DOES NOT LIKE* the Gepards, they didn't want them, but the higher ups made the decision anyway.


very disappointed. corruption is a cancer that needs to be wiped out, otherwise our country never moves forward.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> very disappointed. corruption is a cancer that needs to be wiped out, otherwise our country never moves forward.



Yes, very true, that's a big problem in Vietnam.


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## Viet

today news. the tension seems to escalate further. a good sign is that the US steps in and confronts the chinese. a war between US and China can no longer be ruled out.

US patrol plane has detected Chinese mobile artillery weapons systems on a reclaimed island.
U.S. says China has placed mobile artillery on reclaimed island| Reuters

John McCain pushes for end of arms embargo for Vietnam. Next week. We need weapons that can alter the balance of powers in the SC Sea.
McCain to Push Change on Vietnam Arms Embargo



Carlosa said:


> Yes, very true, that's a big problem in Vietnam.


no, not good at all. 
from your contact, have you heard anything about the 6 planned supersized 4,500 tons Gepards?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> from your contact, have you heard anything about the 6 planned supersized 4,500 tons Gepards?



No, they know there are bigger ships coming in the future, but don't know the details.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No, they know there are bigger ships coming in the future, but don't know the details.


what about the Sigma frigate? I believe our military build-up runs at snail speed.

###

_bro, great news!_

_That is the first step toward a military US/JP alliance. Our friend John McCain wants the US to deliver weapons to assist Vietnam if it comes to war with China. Japan as US ally is obliged to assist Vietnam, too if the US steps in._


*US Senator McCain wants to arm Vietnam in case of 'crisis' with China *

* "We'd like to see them have great capability, particularly with weapons that are defensive in nature, that could be used in the case of a crisis situation between Vietnam and China," the Senator says. *

By Jack Board
*POSTED:* 30 May 2015 13:27






SINGAPORE: US Republican Senator John McCain has called for the gradual removal of the country's lethal arms embargo on Vietnam "as soon as possible".

Senator McCain made the remarks on Saturday (May 30) on the sidelines of the Shangri-La Dialogue, arguing that Vietnam needs to be given the means to further deter "assertive behaviour" by Beijing in the South China Sea.
"We'd like to see them have great capability, particularly with weapons that are defensive in nature, that could be used in the case of a crisis situation between Vietnam and China," he said.

However, Senator McCain said there would be firm restrictions on the types of weaponry the US would sell if the decades-old embargo was fully lifted.

"The systems that I would like to sell is any system that is not related to the ability to abuse human rights; in other words, the kind of weaponry that would be for crowd control or used to harm individuals," he said.

The United States has been actively attempting to build the maritime capabilities of ASEAN nations embroiled in the South China Sea conflict including Vietnam and the Philippines, as well as boosting its military cooperation with Japan, South Korea and Australia, to blunt China's sphere of influence.

"We know the Philippines are heavily involved. They have very little maritime capability. Let's assess them in helping develop that capability," he said.

*RECENT CHINA BEHAVIOUR NOT AN ACCIDENT
*
He also reiterated earlier comments from US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter about China's "blatant violation of international law" in the disputed territory. In a speech to delegates at the forum, Carter said "simply turning a rock into an airfield does not give territorial rights", in reference to China's reported installation of weaponry on reclaimed land.

"There is a scenario where you could see a crisis situation, but I am guardedly optimistic that that can be avoided, with a united ASEAN in partnership with the United States showing China that this is not a productive exercise that they're engaged with," said Senator McCain.

"We believe Secretary Carter's statement that we will fly anywhere and sail anywhere in international water, is a commitment. There is no 12-mile barrier around these reclaimed lands. To respect that would be a de facto recognition of what the Chinese are trying to achieve."

Senator McCain confirmed he and Senator Jack Reed had written a letter to the Defense Secretary requesting China not be invited to Exercise RIMPAC, the world's largest international maritime warfare exercise, held biannually. He said he had not received a response to that request.

"We do not believe China's recent assertive behaviour is an accident; rather it appears to be concerted effort to change the status quo of the region, unilaterally, coercively and in blatant disregard of the view of its neighbours.
"China will likely continue its destabilising activities unless and until it perceives that the costs of doing so outweighs the benefits. Clearly it has not yet included that," he said.

US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter will travel to Vietnam next week, as part of his ongoing tour of the region.

US Senator McCain wants to arm Vietnam in case of 'crisis' with China - Channel NewsAsia

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> what about the Sigma frigate? I believe our military build-up runs at snail speed.



I don't know why there is no delivery schedule about the Sigmas, no announcements, nothing at all.

Snail speed is right, that's how government bureaucrats work.

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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> I don't know, but it seems to me that some of the people that make purchasing decisions for the navy are either incompetent or corrupted.


Maybe one reason was that it not fitted with large heli hanger.





I dont know Talwar is even fitted with heli hanger or not. But it seems there is for small heli.


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## Viet

kaku1 said:


> Maybe one reason was that it not fitted with large heli hanger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know Talwar is even fitted with heli hanger or not. But it seems there is for small heli.


this ship is much more powerful than the gepard. for the same price. I see little reason why we don´t opt it.


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## kaku1

Viet said:


> this ship is much more powerful than the gepard. for the same price. I see little reason why we don´t opt it.


There must be some reasons why Gepard is that much costly.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I don't know why there is no delivery schedule about the Sigmas, no announcements, nothing at all.
> 
> Snail speed is right, that's how government bureaucrats work.


let ask @Aqsuperman. do you know anything latest of the 2 sigma that we have ordered?


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> I don't know why there is no delivery schedule about the Sigmas, no announcements, nothing at all.
> 
> Snail speed is right, that's how government bureaucrats work.


Sigma schedule last time i hear is 2017 and nothing change yet

And about why VN choose Gepard with minimum options, the cause start from BPS-500 scandal, after that there are one rule in VN for purchase waepon, that is we just chose the type which is prove the power in other country, not the new concept with unclear capability, that why VN choose Gepard instead of Tiger class, and one more thing you must understand that at the time VN purchase gerpad, there are only 3 gepards in Russian Navy, but their desgin also defferent with VN, after that gerpad type is started to improve, and some other class appear, that is normal. And we cannot compare 2 first gerpad with recent model is quite understandable because they did a lot of upgrade recently
for example:
Russian Navy gerpad: even don't have heli deck ( check on _Dagestan ship)_








and Vietnam




and 3rd and 4th even equip with toperdo system ( Parket- NK)
and gepard with new design( introduce in 2014 ??)




you can see there are a lot of upgrade, with 2 Palma and may be Shtil-SAM VLS



Viet said:


> this ship is much more powerful than the gepard. for the same price. I see little reason why we don´t opt it.


Talwar is a new design, but i think the price cannot be about 250 mil $, it must be about 400-500 mil 4 for a 4000tons ship, when Vietnam start to purchase 4000 ton ship, it can be an option, but now is not yet
last time i check, Indian navt pay 3 bil $ for 3 talwars (may be with technology transfer)

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> Sigma schedule last time i hear is 2017 and nothing change yet
> 
> And about why VN choose Gepard with minimum options, the cause start from BPS-500 scandal, after that there are one rule in VN for purchase waepon, that is we just chose the type which is prove the power in other country, not the new concept with unclear capability, that why VN choose Gepard instead of Tiger class, and one more thing you must understand that at the time VN purchase gerpad, there are only 3 gepards in Russian Navy, but their desgin also defferent with VN, after that gerpad type is started to improve, and some other class appear, that is normal. And we cannot compare 2 first gerpad with recent model is quite understandable because they did a lot of upgrade recently
> for example:
> Russian Navy gerpad: even don't have heli deck ( check on _Dagestan ship)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and 3rd and 4th even equip with toperdo system ( Parket- NK)
> and gepard with new design( introduce in 2014 ??)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can see there are a lot of upgrade, with 2 Palma and may be Shtil-SAM VLS
> 
> 
> Talwar is a new design, but i think the price cannot be about 250 mil $, it must be about 400-500 mil 4 for a 4000tons ship, when Vietnam start to purchase 4000 ton ship, it can be an option, but now is not yet
> last time i check, Indian navt pay 3 bil $ for 3 talwars (may be with technology transfer)



Yes, I know all that, but the point that we are making here is that Vietnam has chosen a very weak ship and the second batch of the Gepards is still a very weak ship, although better than the first batch because of the ASW package.

Here is a picture of a Russian Gepard with a 12 cell Shtil VLS, this is not a recent version or an upgrade, I had this picture for 5 years. This would it have been a much better option and also the option of using Yakhont which was also available at that time.

The truth is, as I said earlier, Vietnam made a choice for a very simple ship on purpose because it wanted to reduce risk of another failure. That choice for a simple ship is what we are having an issue with. The Gepards are not up to the task of facing chinese ships. That's why the navy is not happy with them, but they will not say so in public of course.








Thao Nguyen said:


> Sigma schedule last time i hear is 2017 and nothing change yet



But that's not an official schedule by Damen right? That's a rumor.

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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Yes, I know all that, but the point that we are making here is that Vietnam has chosen a very weak ship and the second batch of the Gepards is still a very weak ship, although better than the first batch because of the ASW package.
> 
> Here is a picture of a Russian Gepard with a 12 cell Shtil VLS, this is not a recent version or an upgrade, I had this *picture for 5 years*. This would it have been a much better option and also the option of using Yakhont which was also available at that time.
> 
> The truth is, as I said earlier, Vietnam made a choice for a very simple ship on purpose because it wanted to reduce risk of another failure. That choice for a simple ship is what we are having an issue with. The Gepards are not up to the task of facing chinese ships. That's why the navy is not happy with them, but they will not say so in public of course.
> 
> View attachment 226106
> 
> 
> But that's not an official schedule by Damen right? That's a rumor.



commercial introduce to customer or concept?
and one more things is at that time VN even did not receive the first batch, so how did they now that the new capability of the new version, because this version even not used by any country, Vietnam order the second batch may be in 2013, so even if the new design appear, they must have time to prove the capability to customer, right?
just wait and see the 5th ship and I think you can see the improvement,
the same story about why VN choose Su-30 SM instead of Su-35, because India Airforce already appreciate them
Damen is quite quieted about this, even about the purchase order of VN, they just said 2 ship deliver in 2017, so we can not have official information


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## kaku1

Thao Nguyen said:


> Talwar is a new design, but i think the price cannot be about 250 mil $, it must be about 400-500 mil 4 for a 4000tons ship, when Vietnam start to purchase 4000 ton ship, it can be an option, but now is not yet
> last time i check, Indian navt pay 3 bil $ for 3 talwars (may be with technology transfer)



India signed the contract of 3 Frigates for $1bn in 1997, and again for $1 bn in 2005 for 3 more.

Dont fall in Russian Newspaper shit, like this
India to spend $3 billion for 3 more Talwar-class frigates | Russia & India Report

India never ordered more Talwar, they lobbying hard for Advance Talwar that cost $1 bn per ship. But India is not idiot that much, to order a shit ship for $1 bn, when you have capability to create in house.

Instead, India going for P-17A instead, that cost around $700-$900 mil each.

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> commercial introduce to customer or concept?
> and one more things is at that time VN even did not receive the first batch, so how did they now that the new capability of the new version, because this version even not used by any country, Vietnam order the second batch may be in 2013, so even if the new design appear, they must have time to prove the capability to customer, right?
> just wait and see the 5th ship and I think you can see the improvement,
> the same story about why VN choose Su-30 SM instead of Su-35, because India Airforce already appreciate them
> Damen is quite quieted about this, even about the purchase order of VN, they just said 2 ship deliver in 2017, so we can not have official information



Probably a concept, but the Shtil is not a new weapon system anyway. I understand man, but if Vietnam wants to have a decent chance to go against China, it really needs better hardware, otherwise the ships will just have to stay on port. In my view, after making the decision for simple ships with the first batch, I think the second batch needed something much better, at least the Yakhont which is already a proven system.

I do hope that the third batch will really be much better, but also all these Russian made ships are coming too slowly. Things are heating up in SCS and if Vietnam has to fight tomorrow, things are not looking good. 

There is a lot that can be said for the sake of only buying proven weapon systems, but on the other hand, that will leave you with inferior tech, I think sometimes, in some areas, need to take some calculated risks in order to better match the opponent, but anyway, it is what it is, we'll see how things go.



kaku1 said:


> India signed the contract of 3 Frigates for $1bn in 1997, and again for $1 bn in 2005 for 3 more.
> 
> Dont fall in Russian Newspaper shit, like this
> India to spend $3 billion for 3 more Talwar-class frigates | Russia & India Report
> 
> India never ordered more Talwar, they lobbying hard for Advance Talwar that cost $1 bn per ship. But India is not idiot that much, to order a shit ship for $1 bn, when you have capability to create in house.
> 
> Instead, India going for P-17A instead, that cost around $700-$900 mil each.



Well said. Vietnam should it have followed the Indian approach rather than just taking the scraps that Russia offered.
The Talwar was already a proven concept and a much better weapon system, so why not? That's why I said that there is either incompetence or corruption in the decision making process of Vietnam. At least the Kilo subs was a good decision.


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## kaku1

Carlosa said:


> Well said. Vietnam should it have followed the Indian approach rather than just taking the scraps that Russia offered.
> The Talwar was already a proven concept and a much better weapon system, so why not? That's why I said that there is either incompetence or corruption in the decision making process of Vietnam. At least the Kilo subs was a good decision.



Yes Vietnam actually need a true frigate, and actually I mean a true frigate.

Something like, Formidable Class, by which atleast enemy feel threatened.

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## Carlosa

kaku1 said:


> India signed the contract of 3 Frigates for $1bn in 1997, and again for $1 bn in 2005 for 3 more.
> 
> Dont fall in Russian Newspaper shit, like this
> India to spend $3 billion for 3 more Talwar-class frigates | Russia & India Report
> 
> India never ordered more Talwar, they lobbying hard for Advance Talwar that cost $1 bn per ship. But India is not idiot that much, to order a shit ship for $1 bn, when you have capability to create in house.
> 
> Instead, India going for P-17A instead, that cost around $700-$900 mil each.



Well said. Vietnam should it have followed Indian approach rather than just taking the scraps that Russia offered.
The Talwar was already a proven concept and a much better weapon system, so why not? That's why I said that there is either incompetence or corruption in the decision making process of Vietnam. At least the Kilo subs was a good decision.


kaku1 said:


> Yes Vietnam actually need a true frigate, and actually I mean a true frigate.
> 
> Something like, Formidable Class, by which atleast enemy feel threatened.



I totally agree, going half way with these ships that in the end they have to stay in port because they can't survive an encounter with the chinese, its a waste of money and is too little too late. What's the point to spend $350 million on a ship that only has 8 KH-35s and a Palma? That will not do anything.

Better to get an smaller number of ships that will be more expensive, but at least they have a better fighting chance.

For simple, cheaper ships, the Molniya class is fine, its good for its role as a fast ship to sneak in, hit hard and run away. After that, it has to be real frigates as you said.

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## Thao Nguyen

kaku1 said:


> India signed the contract of 3 Frigates for $1bn in 1997, and again for $1 bn in 2005 for 3 more.
> 
> Dont fall in Russian Newspaper shit, like this
> India to spend $3 billion for 3 more Talwar-class frigates | Russia & India Report
> 
> India never ordered more Talwar, they lobbying hard for Advance Talwar that cost $1 bn per ship. But India is not idiot that much, to order a shit ship for $1 bn, when you have capability to create in house.
> 
> Instead, India going for *P-17A instead, that cost around $700-$900 mil each*.


yes, but it price cannot be cheap like 200 or 300 mil $ for a total ship right



Carlosa said:


> Probably a concept, but the Shtil is not a new weapon system anyway. I understand man, but if Vietnam wants to have a decent chance to go against China, it really needs better hardware, otherwise the ships will just have to stay on port. In my view, after making the decision for simple ships with the first batch, I think the second batch needed something much better, at least the Yakhont which is already a proven system.
> 
> I do hope that the third batch will really be much better, but also all these Russian made ships are coming too slowly. Things are heating up in SCS and if Vietnam has to fight tomorrow, things are not looking good.
> 
> There is a lot that can be said for the sake of only buying proven weapon systems, but on the other hand, that will leave you with inferior tech, I think sometimes, in some areas, need to take some calculated risks in order to better match the opponent, but anyway, it is what it is, we'll see how things go.


yes, but the experiences of making decision of purchasing weapon usually come when they use the weapon, Vietnam never making these weapons yet, so it must take time for us to understand every thing, beside, there is another idea about chose the not - most - update weapon is Russia can transfer the tech so that we can make them domestically, for example, Russia can not give Vietnam tech to make yakhont with a cheap price, because they are now selling them with price about 2- 5 mil$/ each, so if we want tech transfer, that will cost a lot of money and we can not adapt like India
We knew that Russia is slow, that why we are not only rely on them
Damen Song Cam is one example, use Holland technology to speed up Vietnam technology, may be later we can make Gerpad or Sigma in Vietnam, and we can upgrade them to most advanced technology, or build our own ship class

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> yes, but it price cannot be cheap like 200 or 300 mil $ for a total ship right
> 
> 
> yes, but the experiences of making decision of purchasing weapon usually come when they use the weapon, Vietnam never making these weapons yet, so it must take time for us to understand every thing, beside, there is another idea about chose the not - most - update weapon is Russia can transfer the tech so that we can make them domestically, for example, Russia can not give Vietnam tech to make yakhont with a cheap price, because they are now selling them with price about 2- 5 mil$/ each, so if we want tech transfer, that will cost a lot of money and we can not adapt like India
> We knew that Russia is slow, that why we are not only rely on them
> Damen Song Cam is one example, use Holland technology to speed up Vietnam technology, may be later we can make Gerpad or Sigma in Vietnam, and we can upgrade them to most advanced technology, or build our own ship class



Yes, that's a good point. Vietnam needs to get away from depending so much on Russia for ships. Even Putin criticized the slow naval build up, that's one area where Russia is really having problems. For submarines its quite ok, but surface ships its super slow.

The Sigma is better than the Gepard. but still falls short of what is really needed in my opinion. 

Vietnam is taking a very slow, long approach, I understand that, that's ok during peacetime, but the problem is that Vietnam might not have much time, things are heating up.



Thao Nguyen said:


> yes, but it price cannot be cheap like 200 or 300 mil $ for a total ship right



Well, he said 1 billion for 3 ships, that's 330 million each, that could be possible, India can build ships quite cheap actually and they make the sonars, guns and much of the equipment themselves.

Have to see more details, but that could be a good option for Vietnam.

As Russian ships go, the frigate Admiral Gorshkov for 450 million, now that's a really good ship, 4500 tons, very good weapon systems. To pay 350 million for a Gepard or a Sigma is a waste of money compared to the Admiral Gorshkov frigate.

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## Echo_419

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's a good point. Vietnam needs to get away from depending so much on Russia for ships. Even Putin criticized the slow naval build up, that's one area where Russia is really having problems. For submarines its quite ok, but surface ships its super slow.
> 
> The Sigma is better than the Gepard. but still falls short of what is really needed in my opinion.
> 
> Vietnam is taking a very slow, long approach, I understand that, that's ok during peacetime, but the problem is that Vietnam might not have much time, things are heating up.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he said 1 billion for 3 ships, that's 330 million each, that could be possible, India can build ships quite cheap actually and they make the sonars, guns and much of the equipment themselves.
> 
> Have to see more details, but that could be a good option for Vietnam.
> 
> As Russian ships go, the frigate Admiral Gorshkov for 450 million, now that's a really good ship, 4500 tons, very good weapon systems. To pay 350 million for a Gepard or a Sigma is a waste of money compared to the Admiral Gorshkov frigate.



I agree with you Russian ship building industry in not in the best shape right now

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## Viet

Echo_419 said:


> I agree with you Russian ship building industry in not in the best shape right now


the russians are good at building subs, but need ages to build surface ships, and whose ships they build are not on par with western and japan counterparts. I wonder why?

@senheiser



Thao Nguyen said:


> Damen Song Cam is one example, use Holland technology to speed up Vietnam technology, may be later we can make Gerpad or Sigma in Vietnam, and we can upgrade them to most advanced technology, or build our own ship class


yes, that is a very right approach. one side note, in the video the General Manager says the Vietnam Damen shipyard can construct 40 vessels a year.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the russians are good at building subs, but need ages to build surface ships, and whose ships they build are not on par with western and japan counterparts. I wonder why?.



Because of the fall of the soviet union. Many shipyards are now in other countries, many parts such as propulsion systems are now in Ukraine. In many ways Russia is rebuilding the industry almost from scratch. The submarine shipyards on the other hand stayed in Russia and survived so they can do ok work now.

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## Viet

*Singapore*
14th Shangri-La Dialogue 2015.

Lieutenant General Vinh holds bilateral meetings with delegations of *China*, Israel, the Philippines, and Singapore.

“This security summit is not a place where concrete security issues will be resolved, but it serves as a forum for many countries to present their points of view related to the peace, security and stability in the Asia-Pacific region,” says he.

so that means we say to others what we think, while others do the same. after that, we go home. anyway the weather and foods in Singapore are worth coming.


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## Viet

Encounter with the chinese army delegation in Singapore, here Admiral Sun Jiangou.

a senior PLA official says China will make a decision on establishing* air defence identification zone* around disputed waters in the South China Sea based on its assessment of the security situation. One thing is certain. If China declares ADIZ, that violates Vietnam rights and sovereignty, we will ignore it, and declare own air defence identification zone. 100 per cent.

Welcome to the party.

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## Aqsuperman

To sum it up : 2 of our Sigma ( code 9814 ) will have a full hangar and deck (no need to to fold back the the propeller any more and the maintaince will be mush easier ) . About the radars and sensors , Thales will be much likely the choice due to the Damen close relation with them . The most interesting things are about the armarnents , while all other Sigmas go with Western weapons (Mostly from France : 76mm Oto Melara , Mistral , F2 20mm and Exocet missiles ) There are some speculations that we may change some of them to Russian weapons ( no doubt this happen right after France failed to deliver Mistral class ship to Russia , and also the Falkland Exocet scandal ) We do have the capability to self-produce Russian missles and weapons on ships , so in case China put pressure on Russia we can still manage the supply , but beside that the anti-aircraft on Sigma is not really impressive even when compare to our current Gepard , so we may need to put some extra firepower on them (AK-630 will be on the top choice ) . Sigma is nice but we do need something much better , probably this whole purchasing is for accessing shipbuilding technology and also get a few non-Russian ships

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> To sum it up : 2 of our Sigma ( code 9814 ) will have a full hangar and deck (no need to to fold back the the propeller any more and the maintaince will be mush easier ) . About the radars and sensors , Thales will be much likely the choice due to the Damen close relation with them . The most interesting things are about the armarnents , while all other Sigmas go with Western weapons (Mostly from France : 76mm Oto Melara , Mistral , F2 20mm and Exocet missiles ) There are some speculations that we may change some of them to Russian weapons ( no doubt this happen right after France failed to deliver Mistral class ship to Russia , and also the Falkland Exocet scandal ) We do have the capability to self-produce Russian missles and weapons on ships , so in case China put pressure on Russia we can still manage the supply , but beside that the anti-aircraft on Sigma is not really impressive even when compare to our current Gepard , so we may need to put some extra firepower on them (AK-630 will be on the top choice ) . Sigma is nice but we do need something much better , probably this whole purchasing is for accessing shipbuilding technology and also get a few non-Russian ships



Sigma is a bit better than the Gepard because it has a better air defense system (Mica) and the sensors are better, particularly the Smart S MK2 radar. Its also nice to have a full hangar for the helicopter. But in my view, a better way to arm the Sigma would be to install and integrate the KH-35 and to use Barak 8 instead of Mica.

But in the end, both Gepard and Sigma are not good enough, Vietnam needs real heavy frigates with better anti ship missiles such as Yakhont / Brahmos / Klub and a medium range air defense system.



Aqsuperman said:


> There are some speculations that we may change some of them to Russian weapons



What you are saying applies to future Sigmas right? Because as I understand, Vietnam already agree to buy Exocet and Mica for the 2 Sigmas that are under construction.


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## Aqsuperman

Well about that , the first pair of Sigmas may come out look like their sister ships but due to the recent situation change (namely France delivery failure) The Navy already have a reserve option to make sure we wont end up like Argentina , either secure a blue-print production or a complete change on weapons load out , the better choice is still being consider but for now the first 2 Sigmas will come back with Exocet but who know in time of conflict Exocet can still be the primary anti-ship weapon of Sigmas ? The answer for that wont come out for a while  

The purchasing of Sigmas is ( as i think ) mostly for accessing shipbuilding tech and get a few non-Russian ships for a change of pace  the fleet anti-aircraft umbrella solution is not in sight yet , that fit both our pocket and requirements

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## Carlosa

*Submarines: China Objects To Getting Klubbed

Submarines: China Objects To Getting Klubbed*

May 31, 2015: China is making angry noises to the UN, Vietnam and Russia about the little publicized Russian sale of Klub submarine launched cruise missiles to Vietnam. China wasn’t happy about Russia selling Vietnam six Kilo class diesel electric submarines in 2009. Russia and Vietnam were quiet about the sale of 50 Klub missiles but the news eventually got out, in part because 28 of the Klub missiles have already been delivered, along with three of the Kilos. Another two Kilos are being delivered in 2015 and the last one will be completed in 2016 about the same time the rest of the Klub missiles arrive. Vietnam is one the many nations in the region threatened by Chinese claims to most of the South China Sea and given the long (over a thousand years) hostility between China and Vietnam, there is understandable fear that, even in defeat, Vietnam would use Klub missiles for one last attack on China.

The Russian 3M54 (also known as the SS-N-27, Sizzler or Klub) anti-ship missiles can also be aimed at targets on land and that’s what really bothers the Chinese. Klub is now used on Indian, Algerian and Vietnamese subs and is considered very effective. But it was not always that way. India (a major customer for the Klub) has feuded with the Russians in the past because of repeated failures of the Klub during six test firings in 2007. These missile tests were carried out off the Russian coast, using an Indian Kilo class submarine, INS Sindhuvijay. That boat had gone to Russia in 2006 for upgrades. India refused to pay for the upgrades, or take back the sub, until Russia fixed the problems with the missiles (which it eventually did).

Weighing two tons, and fired from a 533mm (21 inch) torpedo tube on a Kilo class sub, the 3M54 has a 200 kg (440 pound) warhead. The anti-ship version has a range of 300 kilometers, but speeds up to 3,000 kilometers an hour during its last minute or so of flight. There are also air launched and ship launched versions. The land attack version does away with the high speed final approach feature and that makes possible a larger 400 kg (880 pound) warhead.

What makes the 3M54 particularly dangerous when attacking ships is that during its final approach, which begins when the missile is about 15 kilometers from its target, the missile speeds up. Up to that point, the missile travels at an altitude of about 30 meters (a hundred feet). This makes the missile more difficult to detect. That plus the high speed final approach means that it covers that last fifteen kilometers in less than twenty seconds. This makes it more difficult for current anti-missile weapons to take it down.

The 3M54 Klub is similar to earlier, Cold War era Russian anti-ship missiles, like the 3M80 ("Sunburn") and P700 ("Shipwreck") which entered service at the end of the Cold War. These missiles are considered "carrier killers," but it's not known how many of them would have to hit a carrier to knock it out of action, much less sink it. Moreover, Russian missiles have little combat experience, and a reputation for erratic performance. Quality control was never a Soviet strength, but the Russians are getting better, at least in the civilian sector. The military manufacturers appear to have been slower to adapt. *It is believed that Chinese warships have no effective defense against missile like Klub*, which is why they are so outspoken about Russia selling them to Vietnam.

The Kilos weigh 2,300 tons (surface displacement), have six torpedo tubes and a crew of 52. They can travel about 700 kilometers under water at a quiet speed of about five kilometers an hour. Top speed underwater is 32 kilometers an hour. Kilos carry 18 torpedoes or Klub anti-ship or cruise missiles (launched underwater from the torpedo tubes.) Kilos can stay at sea 45 days at a time. It can travel at periscope depth (using a snorkel device to bring in air) for 12,000 kilometers at 12 kilometers an hour. The combination of quietness and cruise missiles makes Kilo very dangerous to American carriers. North Korea, China, India, Indonesia, Romania, Algeria, Vietnam and Iran have also bought Kilos. The main reason for purchasing Kilos is that they cost about half what equivalent Western subs go for. Kilos are very similar to the world-standard diesel submarine, the 1800-ton German Type 209.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> To sum it up : 2 of our Sigma ( code 9814 ) will have a full hangar and deck (no need to to fold back the the propeller any more and the maintaince will be mush easier ) . About the radars and sensors , Thales will be much likely the choice due to the Damen close relation with them . The most interesting things are about the armarnents , while all other Sigmas go with Western weapons (Mostly from France : 76mm Oto Melara , Mistral , F2 20mm and Exocet missiles ) There are some speculations that we may change some of them to Russian weapons ( no doubt this happen right after France failed to deliver Mistral class ship to Russia , and also the Falkland Exocet scandal ) We do have the capability to self-produce Russian missles and weapons on ships , so in case China put pressure on Russia we can still manage the supply , but beside that the anti-aircraft on Sigma is not really impressive even when compare to our current Gepard , so we may need to put some extra firepower on them (AK-630 will be on the top choice ) . Sigma is nice but we do need something much better , probably this whole purchasing is for accessing shipbuilding technology and also get a few non-Russian ships


have you heard anything about the sigma to built in Vietnam?



Carlosa said:


> *Submarines: China Objects To Getting Klubbed*
> 
> May 31, 2015: China is making angry noises to the UN, Vietnam and Russia about the little publicized Russian sale of Klub submarine launched cruise missiles to Vietnam. China wasn’t happy about Russia selling Vietnam six Kilo class diesel electric submarines in 2009. Russia and Vietnam were quiet about the sale of 50 Klub missiles but the news eventually got out, in part because 28 of the Klub missiles have already been delivered, along with three of the Kilos. Another two Kilos are being delivered in 2015 and the last one will be completed in 2016 about the same time the rest of the Klub missiles arrive. Vietnam is one the many nations in the region threatened by Chinese claims to most of the South China Sea and given the long (over a thousand years) hostility between China and Vietnam, there is understandable fear that, even in defeat, Vietnam would use Klub missiles for one last attack on China.
> 
> The Russian 3M54 (also known as the SS-N-27, Sizzler or Klub) anti-ship missiles can also be aimed at targets on land and that’s what really bothers the Chinese. Klub is now used on Indian, Algerian and Vietnamese subs and is considered very effective. But it was not always that way. India (a major customer for the Klub) has feuded with the Russians in the past because of repeated failures of the Klub during six test firings in 2007. These missile tests were carried out off the Russian coast, using an Indian Kilo class submarine, INS Sindhuvijay. That boat had gone to Russia in 2006 for upgrades. India refused to pay for the upgrades, or take back the sub, until Russia fixed the problems with the missiles (which it eventually did).
> 
> Weighing two tons, and fired from a 533mm (21 inch) torpedo tube on a Kilo class sub, the 3M54 has a 200 kg (440 pound) warhead. The anti-ship version has a range of 300 kilometers, but speeds up to 3,000 kilometers an hour during its last minute or so of flight. There are also air launched and ship launched versions. The land attack version does away with the high speed final approach feature and that makes possible a larger 400 kg (880 pound) warhead.
> 
> What makes the 3M54 particularly dangerous when attacking ships is that during its final approach, which begins when the missile is about 15 kilometers from its target, the missile speeds up. Up to that point, the missile travels at an altitude of about 30 meters (a hundred feet). This makes the missile more difficult to detect. That plus the high speed final approach means that it covers that last fifteen kilometers in less than twenty seconds. This makes it more difficult for current anti-missile weapons to take it down.
> 
> The 3M54 Klub is similar to earlier, Cold War era Russian anti-ship missiles, like the 3M80 ("Sunburn") and P700 ("Shipwreck") which entered service at the end of the Cold War. These missiles are considered "carrier killers," but it's not known how many of them would have to hit a carrier to knock it out of action, much less sink it. Moreover, Russian missiles have little combat experience, and a reputation for erratic performance. Quality control was never a Soviet strength, but the Russians are getting better, at least in the civilian sector. The military manufacturers appear to have been slower to adapt. It is believed that Chinese warships have no effective defense against missile like Klub, which why they are so outspoken about Russia selling them to Vietnam.
> 
> The Kilos weigh 2,300 tons (surface displacement), have six torpedo tubes and a crew of 52. They can travel about 700 kilometers under water at a quiet speed of about five kilometers an hour. Top speed underwater is 32 kilometers an hour. Kilos carry 18 torpedoes or Klub anti-ship or cruise missiles (launched underwater from the torpedo tubes.) Kilos can stay at sea 45 days at a time. It can travel at periscope depth (using a snorkel device to bring in air) for 12,000 kilometers at 12 kilometers an hour. The combination of quietness and cruise missiles makes Kilo very dangerous to American carriers. North Korea, China, India, Indonesia, Romania, Algeria, Vietnam and Iran have also bought Kilos. The main reason for purchasing Kilos is that they cost about half what equivalent Western subs go for. Kilos are very similar to the world-standard diesel submarine, the 1800-ton German Type 209.


carlosa, I like to add the link
Submarines: China Objects To Getting Klubbed

you know chinese have no humor. they have how many subs? 60 or more? who knows with what weapons onboard. if they complain meaning we do the right thing. our navy needs more subs.



Carlosa said:


> Sigma is a bit better than the Gepard because it has a better air defense system (Mica) and the sensors are better, particularly the Smart S MK2 radar. Its also nice to have a full hangar for the helicopter. But in my view, a better way to arm the Sigma would be to install and integrate the KH-35 and to use Barak 8 instead of Mica.
> 
> But in the end, *both Gepard and Sigma are not good enough*, Vietnam needs real heavy frigates with better anti ship missiles such as Yakhont / Brahmos / Klub and a medium range air defense system.
> 
> 
> 
> What you are saying applies to future Sigmas right? Because as I understand, Vietnam already agree to buy Exocet and Mica for the 2 Sigmas that are under construction.


ha ha ha...that is what I said. we need powerful battleships that can take on chinese frigate and destroyer. as powerful as aegis destroyer. not necessary a billion USD a piece. Now our current surface fleet is good for hit and run.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you know chinese have no humor. they have how many subs? 60 or more? who knows with what weapons onboard. if they complain meaning we do the right thing. our navy needs more subs.
> .



No worries about the 60 chinese subs, most of them are quite noisy.

Yes, that's what I always say, more subs, subs is what makes the difference, not surface ships.



Viet said:


> ha ha ha...that is what I said. we need powerful battleships that can take on chinese frigate and destroyer. as powerful as aegis destroyer. not necessary a billion USD a piece. Now our current surface fleet is good for hit and run.



Heavy frigates with the right weapon systems is what is needed, not these Mickey Mouse Gepards and Sigmas at $350 million a piece. Better to buy 6 SU-30s for 350 million.

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## Carlosa

*US defense secretary to ask Vietnam to end land reclamation*
By LOLITA C. BALDOR

US defense secretary to ask Vietnam to end land reclamation - Yahoo News

HAIPHONG, Vietnam (AP) — U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter said Sunday he will urge Vietnamese officials to give up their reclamation projects in the South China Sea, making a direct plea after earlier calling for all countries in the Asia-Pacific region to halt the construction of artificial islands.

China's rapidly expanding building projects has raised tensions and caused concerns among the United States and its regional partners.

Speaking to reporters during a stop at a Vietnamese Navy base, Carter said that all the claimants in the South China Sea must halt their reclamation and any further militarization of the sites. Those would include Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan, but their projects are dwarfed by China's building program on reefs and atolls, which now totals more than 2,000 acres.

China is vigorously defending the projects in the face of persistent criticism from U.S. leaders, who say that the building programs will not provide Beijing any additional sovereign land. The U.S. and others are concerned that China will use the artificial islands as military bases and to assert control over navigation in the South China Sea.

Carter also toured a Coast Guard ship a day before his scheduled meetings with Vietnamese leaders. Other topics expected to come up are maritime weapons sales

Carters' comments come in the wake of disclosures that China had placed two motorized artillery vehicles on one of its reclamation sites. Officials have said the artillery has been moved.

This is Carter's first trip to Vietnam as defense secretary, and the first time a U.S. defense secretary has visited a Vietnamese Navy base or toured a military ship.

Two years ago, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta visited the former U.S. air and naval base at Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam and went on board the USNS Richard E. Byrd, a cargo ship operated by the U.S. Navy's Military Sealift Command.

Carter said he planned to talk with Vietnamese officials about ongoing efforts by the U.S. to provide maritime defensive weapons to the country.

Last October the U.S. partially lifted its ban on weapons sales to Vietnam to boost the country's ability to defend itself in the South China Sea. Only the sale of lethal maritime security and surveillance capabilities are allowed on a case-by-case basis, including boats and air assets based on an evaluation of Vietnam's needs. But to date no weapons have flowed to Vietnam.

U.S. Sen. John McCain said Saturday that the U.S. should gradually lift the weapons ban on Vietnam, amid heightened tensions with China over the reclamation projects.

China, Vietnam and other nations have conflicting claims over portions of the South China Sea. Both McCain and Carter attended an international security conference over the weekend in Singapore, where Carter urged the halt to reclamation projects by all in the region.

McCain, chairman of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee, said the U.S. should provide additional defensive weapons that could be used in case of a conflict with China. He added that the U.S. should continue its ban on weapons used for crowd control or to commit human rights abuses.

Carter said the U.S. will continue to discuss changes to the arms ban. He said the U.S. has some latitude to provide maritime weapons, including ships, now, but, "we'd obviously benefit from more latitude but we'd need legislative approval to do that" as well as endorsements from the administration.


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## Viet

*Vietnam to build ships for maritime research, survey locally*
tuoi tre news
Updated : 05/31/2015 17:01 GMT + 7





_A file photo of chinhphu.vn shows a locally-built ship for maritime research and survey purposes operating in Vietnamese waters._

*Vietnamese shipyards will be picked via limited tender procedures to be eligible to build specialized ships for maritime research and survey purposes following a decision recently approved by Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, according to government website chinhphu.vn.
*
Accordingly, only member companies of the Hanoi-based Vietnam Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (SBIC), previously known as Vinashin, are allowed to join those tenders to secure the rights to build such ships, the website said on Friday.

Prime Minister Dung has assigned the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment to actively work with the Ministry of Planning and Investment and the Ministry of Finance to allocate necessary capital for the project.

The premier has also agreed to extend the repayment of advance funding worth VND200 billion (*US$9.2 million*) to the end of 2015 to implement the project to build ships for maritime research and survey purposes as proposed by the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment.

The three ministries are requested to choose shipbuilders to accelerate the implementation of the project and to meet the requirements of maritime research and survey tasks so as to ensure investment efficiency.

The project to build ships for maritime research and survey purposes was approved by the prime minister in late 2014.

The premier then agreed to advance VND200 billion for any firms getting involved in the project before June 30, 2015.

As reported by the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment, the project will be carried out from now to the end of next year, while the installation of technical equipment for the maritime research and survey work will be done in the 2017-18 period.


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> have you heard anything about the sigma to built in Vietnam?



Its a Damen product so i guess their will be built by Sông Cấm , as usual "supervised" by Dutch specialists . The timetable is not really clear right now but its may follown shortly right after the first Sigma got delivered so lets say about 2018 . Radars and sensors are clearly unchange but cant say the same about the weaponry

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## Carlosa

Pentagon chief pledges $18 million for Hanoi to buy patrol boats
Reuters

*HAI PHONG* - Monday, June 01, 2015

Pentagon chief pledges $18 million for Hanoi to buy patrol boats | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily




_Us Defense Secretary Ashton Carter visits, talks and receives gifts from officers and soldiers on Board the CSB 8003. Photo: Coast Guard_

US Defense Secretary Ash Carter pledged $18 million on Sunday to help Vietnam buy US patrol boats, shortly after touring a Vietnamese coast guard vessel that was hit by a Chinese ship during a skirmish in the South China Sea.

Carter, who has been focusing on maritime security during an 11-day trip to the Asia-Pacific, visited the Vietnamese navy headquarters and coast guard headquarters before boarding the ship.
Carter is on his second visit to Asia since becoming defense secretary earlier this year. He said he planned to sign a "vision statement" on Monday with his Vietnamese counterpart to guide the expansion of bilateral military ties.

"We need to modernize our partnership," Carter told reporters during a visit to the northern city of Hai Phong. "After 20 years, there is more we could do together."
As part of that effort, he said Washington would provide $18 million to help Vietnam buy US-made Metal Shark patrol boats to help Hanoi improve its maritime defense capabilities.

US and Vietnamese navies had been "building habits of cooperation" by working together, he said. In April they conducted exercises under rules laid out in the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea, a set of regulations approved by multiple maritime nations last year at a meeting in China.

Carter opened his trip to the Asia-Pacific by calling for all countries to stop island-building efforts in disputed, resource-rich regions of the South China Sea. He reiterated that call at the Shangri-La Dialogue security conference on Saturday.

Carter recognized that several countries, including Vietnam, had conducted land reclamation projects in the region but said Chinese activity, covering some 2,000 acres, had outstripped the others and raised questions about Beijing's long-term intentions.

"I will be discussing further with Vietnam the proposal that I was talking about in Singapore, namely for all of the claimants to these disputed areas of the South China Sea ... permanently to halt reclamations," he said.

The Vietnamese coast guard vessel toured by Carter was targeted with Chinese water cannons and rammed by a Chinese ship during a confrontation last year.

The incident occurred after China moved an oil drilling rig into waters claimed by Vietnam. The rig remained for about two months protected by Chinese navy vessels, which were repeatedly challenged by Vietnamese ships.





Mr Ashton Carter visits Vietnam Coast Guard ships in The Coast Guard 1 squadron.

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## Viet

Not too bad the $18m gift for the coast guard. after google a bit so this kind of vessel:

*US-made Metal Shark patrol boat
*
36-foot center-console boat, operating in shallow-water, armored hulls, powered by Mercury 300 outboards, made by Sarasota, a Florida-based Yellowfin Yacht, reportedly cost $600,000 each. so if calculated we´ll get some 30 boats. the US coast guard version has three mounted 7.62-caliber machine guns.

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## Viet

other possibility:
Metal Shark 75 Defiant Patrol boat, capable of achieving 40+ knots






King Shark II: more range, more speed and heavier fire power.

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## Viet

*Vietnam, U.S. discuss land reclamation in South China Sea*
HANOI | By David Alexander 
World | Mon Jun 1, 2015 4:38am EDT






_U.S. Secretary of Defense Ash Carter (L) raises a toast with Vietnamese army generals after they signed the Joint Vision Statement during a ceremony at the Ministry of Defence in Hanoi June 1, 2015. 
Reuters/Hoang Dinh Nam/Pool_

HANOI U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter discussed his call for an end to island-building in the South China Sea in talks on Monday with his Vietnamese counterpart, who said Vietnam had not expanded its islands but had done work to prevent wave erosion.

The response appeared to fall short of the immediate halt to land reclamation activity and further militarization of the islands that Carter sought in an initial appeal last week in Hawaii, and again at a security conference in Singapore.
Carter told a joint news conference with Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh that he and the general had discussed his proposal for a permanent halt to reclamation and militarization of the islands and that Vietnam was considering the idea.

The U.S. defense secretary, who is on an 11-day trip to the Asia-Pacific, has focused on maritime security in his public remarks amid concerns about the implications of China's massive island-building effort, which has added 2,000 acres (809 hectares) of land in about 18 months, most of it this year.

Carter has acknowledged that other countries have conducted reclamation projects in the region, including partners like Vietnam, and urged them all to stop. But he said China's activity had outstripped the others and was undermining security, a charge that Beijing has rejected.

At the news conference, Thanh and Carter were questioned whether the U.S. defense chief had asked Vietnam to stop land reclamation activity. Thanh said the two sides had discussed the issue.

"Vietnam has recently conducted consolidation on the islands under Vietnam's sovereignty," Thanh told reporters, noting that *Vietnamese troops were stationed on nine "floating islands" and 12 "submerged islands" *in the region.

"On the floating islands, we conducted embankment (consolidation) to prevent them from waves and erosion, to ensure safety for the people and the soldiers stationed on the islands," he said.

"On the submerged islands, we only built small houses, which can accommodate a few people and we are not expanding. The scope and characteristic of our work is purely civilian."

Submerged islands feature underwater reefs, while floating islands are those with surfaces above the water or which can be built from submerged islands, by adding steel structure, soil, rocks and concrete.

A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said later that Vietnam distinguishes its activity from that of China's, saying that it conducts work to maintain buildings erected some time ago and work to prevent wave erosion.

The official indicated that Carter would like to have clearer distinctions between what is new construction that would be barred and what is maintenance that might be permitted.

Carter and Thanh also signed a *Joint Vision Statement* to guide future military cooperation between the former foes, who fought a 1955-1975 war and only normalized ties 20 years ago.

As part of the expanding cooperation, Carter announced the United States would help Vietnam set up a site to train troops for U.N. peacekeeping operations and would send a U.S. expert on peacekeeping to Hanoi.

On Sunday, Carter visited the Vietnamese navy and coast guard headquarters and pledged $18 million to help Vietnam buy U.S. patrol boats.

(Additional reporting by Ho Binh Minh; Editing by Paul Tait)


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## Viet

June 1, 2015
*VN and US have signed a "Joint Vision Statement"*

what does it mean? it states

Enhancing friendship, understanding and confidence building between the two countries, deepen the comprehensive partnership for the interests of the two peoples, and contribute to the maintenance of peace and stability in the Southeast Asia and Asia-Pacific region.

so more or less just declaration of good wills, details will be worked out later.

one of the first steps is, besides $18m grant to VCG, the US will support the establishing of a U.N. peacekeeping center in Hanoi, with U.S. expert assisting Vietnam peacekeeping force.

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## Viet

from the SC Sea

Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative | Home

The US says Vietnam has reclaimed about 200,000 m2, while China 2,000,000 m2. We are tenfold behind. From the map below, we have a potential to catch up, because our holdings have vast underwater formations, and of course if money and technology are available.

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## Carlosa

*U.S. does not recognize Chinese artificial islands in East Vietnam Sea: McCain*

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 05/30/2015 
U.S. does not recognize Chinese artificial islands in East Vietnam Sea: McCain





*The U.S. will never recognize China’s “sovereignty” over the artificial islands it has illegally built in the East Vietnam Sea, U.S. Senator John McCain, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, said Friday.*

_*>> China plots to legalize illicit sovereignty claims with East Vietnam Sea lighthouses: experts*_

The U.S. official was speaking to a press briefing in Ho Chi Minh City during his Vietnam visit, where he is accompanied by other U.S. senators including Jack Reed, Joni Earst and Dan Sullivan.

China has deployed artillery to the man-made island that its forces have illegally built atop some submerged reefs that belong to Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago in the East Vietnam Sea, Senator McCain told reporters. 

Such an action was very worrying and this unilateral action by China will escalate the tension in the sea area, he pressed.

China should be made aware that its acts have seriously violated international law and the principles of conducts at sea agreed between China and ASEAN, the U.S. senator added.

The whole world will condemn China for such acts, which not only defy Vietnam’s sovereignty but also affect the U.S.’s national interests, he underlined.

He emphasized that the U.S. will not yield to this challenge from China.

McCain said protests against China’s acts should be raised at international organizations and forums, such as the United Nations.

Regional countries should coordinate their diplomatic and economic resources to put pressure on Beijing to stop its wrongdoings, he said, adding that he believes the U.S. can help regional countries such as Vietnam and the Philippines improve their maritime capabilities.

Many American people support the U.S. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter’s announcement that the U.S. will deploy planes and ships to any areas in the world in accordance to the international law, McCain said.

He added that the Chinese Government should clearly understand this message.

Senator Jack Reed also commented that China has violated the basic rules of international law.

At the 14th Shangri-La Dialogue, which is taking place in Singapore, the U.S. will affirm that China has escalated tension in the East Vietnam Sea by deploying artilleries to their illegal man-made islands in the sea area, McCain said.

The U.S. will condemn such an act as it violated international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, he said.

The U.S. will strengthen relations with regional countries including Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia to ensure that China needs to respect international law, the official added.

Meanwhile, Senator Dan Sullivan commented that China’s aggressive acts have made China isolated from the international community.

No countries support China's illegal building of artificial islands in the East Vietnam Sea, he said, adding that this is not a bilateral issue between the U.S. and China, but a common issue of the region and the world.

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## Viet

20 year anniversary: refurbishment factory A-29






37mm cannon






anti aircraft missile





A72





57mm cannon





ZSU-23-4





P-35 radar





IIB antenna


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## Viet

SAM II





SAM s-125





37mm anti aircraft cannon


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## Viet

*GSh-301*, single-barreled, recoil aircraft cannon on Su-27 and Su-30, max. firing rate of 1,800 rounds per minute, effective range against aerial targets 200-800m, against surface or ground targets 1,200 -1,800m.

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## Viet

@Carlosa

I think this news may be of your special interest. the third batch of our Gepard, #5 and #6 (in case if the order is confirmed) will most likely carry VLS Klub-N cruise missiles. the General director of Zelenodolsk shipyard, told RIA Novosti, a Russian news agency, that Uran-E will be phased out on the Gepard class, and replaced by Klub-N.

Although he does not reveal which foreign country, but as Vietnam is the only country besides Russia operating Gepard. well, it must be Vietnam, isn´t it?

Klub-N is very powerful cruise missile, can destroy enemy ship (of any size, even aircraft carrier) and land target.

Cặp tàu Gepard thứ 3 của Việt Nam sẽ được trang bị tên lửa Klub? | soha.vn

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> I think this news may be of your special interest. the third batch of our Gepard, #5 and #6 (in case if the order is confirmed) will most likely carry VLS Klub-N cruise missiles. the General director of Zelenodolsk shipyard, told RIA Novosti, a Russian news agency, that Uran-E will be phased out on the Gepard class, and replaced by Klub-N.
> 
> Although he does not reveal which foreign country, but as Vietnam is the only country besides Russia operating Gepard. well, it must be Vietnam, isn´t it?
> 
> Klub-N is very powerful cruise missile, can destroy enemy ship (of any size, even aircraft carrier) and land target.
> 
> Cặp tàu Gepard thứ 3 của Việt Nam sẽ được trang bị tên lửa Klub? | soha.vn



I had read this before, but the thing is, there are also a lot of rumors that the third batch of Gepards will have the Shtil (or maybe redut - poliment) air defense system and the thing is, the Gepard only has space for 1 VLS system, so it can't be both systems, its either the Klub or the Shtil, etc. Unless they make space for a second VLS, but I think that's a bit unlikely, but I can't say for sure.

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## Viet

June 2, built by Ba Son shipyard, two new domestic made Molniya Corvettes M3 and M4 handing over to the Vietnam People’s Navy. the next pair M5 and M6 in mid 2016.

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## Viet

to the high sea. each Molniya warship is equipped with 16 Uran-E guided antiship missiles and automatic artillery.

Vietnam receives Russian-design missile boats amid maritime tension| Reuters






as for Gepard warships. June 3. According to SIPRI, Vietnam has ordered 200 missiles of 9M311 Sosna-R.

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## Viet

March 1969, US battleship USS New Jersey bombarding North Vietnamese army positions.





North Vietnamese Army 105mm artillery returning fire.






it was a long way until the one-time foe Vietnam and America have normalized relationship and become friend.
during his recent visit, US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter handed his Vietnamese counterpart Thanh a diary and a belt that belonged to Vietnamese communist soldiers from the War.

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## Viet

Admiral Sun Jianguo (1st R), vice chief of staff of China's PLA meets with Vietnamese Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh (1st L) on the sidelines of the 14th Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, May 29, 2015. (Xinhua)

the atmosphere is reportedly close to the freezing point.


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## Carlosa

*3 Ways To Boost the US-Vietnam Security Relationship*
*3 Ways To Boost the US-Vietnam Security Relationship - Defense One
*




*
After this week’s Shangri-La dialogue in*Singapore, which featured the U.S.-China war of words that has come to characterize the security meeting, Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter traveled on to Vietnam to meet with Hanoi’s defense minister. Carter visited Vietnam’s Naval Command and the city of Haiphong, becoming the first U.S. Defense Secretary to do so. Haiphong harbor famously—or infamously—was mined by the U.S., in 1972, during the Vietnam War.

Full Bio

Given China’s threats this past week to establish an air defense zone in the South China Sea, as well as Vietnam’s broader concerns about Beijing’s regional strategy, it is almost certain that the U.S.-Vietnam relationship will grow closer by the end of Obama’s presidency. Concerns in Congress about Hanoi’s poor human rights record—Hanoi’s record has actually worsened in the past five years, according to Freedom House—have not stopped Congress from being generally supportive of closer U.S.-Vietnam ties. (I have served as a consultant for Freedom House’s Freedom in the World chapters on Southeast Asia.) According to a recent _Associated Press_ report, “Rep. Christopher Smith (R-New Jersey), has authored a bill, the Vietnam Human Rights Act of 2015, that would, if enacted, cap financial assistance to Vietnam at fiscal-year 2014 levels, require that easing the prohibition on selling military equipment to Vietnam happen only if steps are taken to improve human rights, and mandate that the U.S. try to overcome the jamming of Radio Free Asia.” But the bill is unlikely to pass. And Senator John McCain is reportedly planning to introduce legislation in the Senate that would further remove restrictions on arms sales to Hanoi.

Building on the Secretary of Defense’s visit to Vietnam, the two countries should take several steps to further entrench the bilateral relationship. These should include:

*Integrating Vietnamese Forces into Annual U.S.-Philippines Joint Exercises*

The U.S.-Philippines Balikatan joint exercises have grown in size in recent years, as Manila and Washington have become more concerned about China’s assertive behavior in the South China Sea. In addition, Manila and Hanoi, which had little history of close strategic ties, have in the past five years begun building a military and strategic relationship. The two countries formally signed a statement of strategic partnership earlier this year.


The Obama administration already has promised to start conducting military exercises with Vietnam, and it should broaden those exercises to make them U.S.-Vietnam-Philippines maneuvers. Such a step would help improve the three forces’ interoperability, and also would help solidify Manila’s ties to Hanoi.

*Boosting Arms Sales*

The Obama administration should push for the full removal of restrictions on arms sales to Vietnam. As I wrote in a working paper on the pivot in Southeast Asia, the administration could set up an interagency working group to approve the first year or two years of arms sales to Vietnam, monitoring the sales to make sure that the weapons are not being used against Vietnamese civilians. If they were used against Vietnamese civilians, the arms sales could be stopped.

Although Vietnam is a highly repressive, one-party state, its military is actually far more professional, and less abusive, than those of many other nations in Southeast Asia. The armed forces are under civilian control, unlike those of neighboring nations like Thailand and Myanmar. In addition, Vietnam offers such significant strategic advantages for the United States (unlike, say, Myanmar) that, on balance, arms sales to Vietnam are worth the possibility that the sales will, in some way, be helping to support an authoritarian government.

*Building Upon the U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership*

The United States should build upon its comprehensive partnership with Vietnam. In building closer ties, theU.S. government should not only expand the sale of lethal arms to Vietnam but also expand access for American naval vessels at Cam Ranh Bay and increase the number of training programs for senior Vietnamese officers.

_This post appears courtesy of CFR.org._

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> June 2, built by Ba Son shipyard, two new domestic made Molniya Corvettes M3 and M4 handing over to the Vietnam People’s Navy. the next pair M5 and M6 in mid 2016.



Why does some ships have tail numbers like "HQ-XXX" and others ships just tail number "XXX" without letters?

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## Viet

barmaley, HQ is "Hải quân" in short. Navy.
our boats were coded HQ followed by the number. but following international practice, the navy drops the "HQ" letter recently.

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## Viet

June 6. Test firing improved version of S-125-2TM medium range surface to air missile SAM.

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## Carlosa

*Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China*
By Siva Govindasamy

Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China - Yahoo News

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Vietnam is in talks with European and U.S. contractors to buy fighter jets, maritime patrol planes and unarmed drones, sources said, as it looks to beef up its aerial defenses in the face of China's growing assertiveness in disputed waters.

The battle-hardened country has already taken possession of three Russian-built Kilo-attack submarines and has three more on order as part of a $2.6 billion deal agreed in 2009. Upgrading its air force would give Vietnam one of the most potent militaries in Southeast Asia.

The previously unreported aircraft discussions have involved Swedish defense contractor Saab , European consortium Eurofighter, the defense wing of Airbus Group and U.S. firms Lockheed Martin Corp and Boeing , said industry sources with direct knowledge of the talks.

Defense contractors had made multiple visits to Vietnam in recent months although no deals were imminent, said the sources, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter. Some of the sources characterized the talks as ongoing.

One Western defense contractor said Hanoi wanted to modernize its air force by replacing more than 100 ageing Russian MiG-21 fighters while reducing its reliance on Moscow for weapons for its roughly 480,000-strong military.

Vietnam has ordered about a dozen more Russian Sukhoi Su-30 front-line fighters to supplement a fleet of older Su-27s and Su-30s.

"We had indications they want to reduce their dependence on Russia. Their growing friendship with America and Europe will help them to do that," said the defense contractor.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter, during a visit to Vietnam on Sunday, pledged $18 million to help Hanoi buy U.S. patrol boats. But any deal with Lockheed or Boeing would likely be the most significant involving a U.S. firm since Washington started easing a long-time embargo on the sale of lethal weapons to Vietnam in October.

The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said it had forwarded questions from Reuters about the aircraft discussions to the appropriate authorities.

Boeing said in an email it believed it had capabilities in "intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance platforms that may meet Vietnam's modernization needs". It gave no specifics.

Lockheed and Saab declined to comment. Eurofighter and Airbus did not respond to a request for comment.

CHINESE OIL RIG

While communist parties rule both Vietnam and China and annual trade has risen to nearly $60 billion, Vietnam has long been wary of China, especially over Beijing's claims to most of the South China Sea.

China's placement of an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam for more than two months last year infuriated Vietnam and underscored the coastal country's need to upgrade its maritime patrol capabilities in particular.

Vietnam's military budget is a state secret, although data collated by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) put defense spending at $3.4 billion in 2013, more than double the amount a decade ago.

Experts say actual spending could be much higher given the hardware acquired over recent years.

Among the aircraft under discussion with Vietnam were *Saab's Gripen E* fourth-generation fighter jet as well as the *Saab 340 or 2000 twin-engine turboprops fitted with maritime patrol and airborne early warning systems*, said a source with direct knowledge of those talks.

Vietnam had held talks over the Typhoon warplane made by *Eurofighter* as well as the *F/A-50 light fighter* jointly developed by Korea Aerospace Industries <047810.KS> and Lockheed, separate sources said.

Lockheed had discussed its Sea Hercules, the maritime patrol version of its C-130 transport plane.

Meanwhile, an additional source said Boeing wanted to sell its maritime surveillance aircraft program, which involves putting state-of-the-art P-8 Poseidon plane surveillance technology, although not anti-submarine capabilities, on a business jet.

Vietnam had also looked at unarmed surveillance drones made by Western and Asian contractors.

VIETNAM WAR LEGACY

Vietnam has already started moving slowly away from Russia in recent years, buying Canadian Twin Otter amphibious planes and Airbus Defence CASA C-212 maritime patrol aircraft for its coastguard and Airbus C-295 transport planes.

Airbus Defence had been in talks to offer maritime patrol and airborne early warning systems on the C-295, a source said.

In addition, Airbus Helicopters had been in preliminary talks with the Vietnamese military.

Despite increasingly warm ties with Washington, some experts said the legacy of the Vietnam War might make Hanoi wary about buying too much U.S. weaponry, possibly giving Sweden an edge.

"There is no ideological bias (in Vietnam) with Sweden," said Tim Huxley, executive director of the International Institute of Strategic Studies in Asia.

"The Gripen E will be a cost-effective option. Saab can offer a package that includes maritime patrol and airborne early warning aircraft."

*However, one U.S. source familiar with Vietnam's goals said Hanoi saw Washington as a more reliable partner should tension with China escalate.*

"*Vietnam is interested in building a much closer relationship with the United States*, but they also don't want to anger China," said the source, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

"They're looking for a balanced, phased, or step-by-step approach.'

(Additional reporting by Ho Binh Minh and Martin Petty in HANOI, Greg Torode in HONG KONG and Andrea Shalal in WASHINGTON; Editing by Dean Yates)

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## Viet

*Air Defence*

June 6. With the help and assistance of Tetraedr (Belarus) engineers and technicians, military factory A-31 completes the upgrade of S-125-2TM Pechora medium range surface to air missile system (SAM-3). It is aimed at destroying advanced, small-size aerial attack platforms flying at low altitudes. can also be deployed against ground and water-surface targets that are visible to radar.












During the Vietnam war, the predecessor of Pechora missile (or SAM-2) was a nightmare for US B-52 Bombers.

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## Viet

pics from comcom

old wartime dark dress (dressed for parade)





these guys are from SpecialOps, I believe





Border Guard





Infantry with AK-47 rifle and gas mask





beautiful pictures of the new Molniya warships

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## Viet

posted in the facebook website of Ashton Carter, U.S. Department of Defense. Joint Vision Statement between Vietnam and US armies.

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## Viet

_It is a possibility and can´t be ruled out. Thing has changed. There was time when such thing is unthinkable.
_

The Buzz
*Get Ready, China: Is a U.S.-Vietnam Alliance Possible? *
Helen Clark
June 6, 2015






The U.S. and Vietnam have just signed a Joint Vision Statement, but don't expect them to join forces against China. An alliance is ultimately straw-man talk, but provides a useful way to look at the U.S.-Vietnam-China triangle.

Last weekend's Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore had one main focus: the South China Sea and China's movements in it. As the U.S. has become more concerned and China has acted in ways that worry not just its neighbors and co-claimants of the Spratly and Paracel Islands, the issue has moved to the front pages of world's newspapers, and added urgency to the growing friendship between Washington and Hanoi.

The question of what sort of relationship may develop between the U.S. and Vietnam is also of growing interest because it's a compelling story about 'former foes' (the phrase is practically mandatory when talking about Vietnam and the U.S.) drawing closer.

I'm a little bemused, because I've been watching this story play out in one way or another since 2006 when I arrived in Hanoi, just before APEC and a few months before Vietnam joined the WTO as member 150. Growing ties with the U.S. and, later, territorial disputes with China, were the bread and butter of any journalist there. Whether internet cables were cut or fishermen threatened, it often meant that a small and committed group of protesters would march around the Hoan Kiem Lake on a Sunday morning in the city center, watched by police. It also meant that I, as a freelance correspondent, would be able to pay my rent.

Newspapers ran the stories on their foreign pages but they centered more on the protests and contretemps between Beijing and Hanoi than on any wider understanding of what the South China Sea meant or how it was going to change the region. Now, as China builds islands and airstrips, everyone is interested.

Another central feature of reporting from Vietnam in that period was the question of ties with the U.S. Even John McCain's presidential bid got coverage from the Vietnamese angle, with one of his former jailers saying he'd vote for the man. I ran with a story on nightclubbing kids who drank B-52 cocktails, and how it was all a sign of Vietnam's 'booming' economy (we loved that superlative), helped in large part by its 2001 trade agreement with the U.S., which McCain helped to push.

At the same time, the U.S. was always concerned with human rights, framed most often in terms of freedom of speech. This has remained a roadblock to growing ties (though if the will were there, Vietnam could release a few more dissidents as bargaining chips, and both nations could pretend to be happy, with China left unhappy) and the reason for the arms embargo on Vietnam, which John McCain would like to see lifted. Some 'non-lethals' are already for sale.

Since last year, when China moved an oil rig into Vietnam's EEZ and set off riots outside (Taiwanese) factories that killed people, speculation has grown: might an alliance between the two 'former foes' be useful, or even possible?
Defense Secretary Ashton Carter was in Hanoi days ago to sign the Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations, which the U.S. and Vietnam hope will support expansion of military ties, particularly navigation of complex U.S. procurement rules. The statement is non-binding and outside of it being with a former enemy and nation at loggerheads with China, not particularly exciting.

But it is symbolic. Secretary Carter told a press conference that he and his counterpart Phung Quang Thanh, the Defense Minister, had discussed halting reclamation and militarization in the disputed South China Sea. Carter pledged US$18 million to help Vietnam buy some U.S. patrol boats and is also going to set up a site to train Vietnamese troops for UN peacekeeping mission. Senator John McCain wants a more robust strategy and said during his visit to Ho Chi Minh City, “We are not going to have a conflict with China but we can take certain measures which will be a disincentive to China to continue these kinds of activities”.

Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong is to visit the White House later this year (at Washington's invitation, though it was lobbied for by Hanoi). He visited his counterpart in Beijing in April.

Vietnam has been busy pursuing friendship with plenty of other nations too, including India, Russia, and even Australia. There is also a new Strategic Partnership with the Philippines. Hanoi continues to work within ASEAN too, despite the organization still being a bit toothless when it comes to South China Sea problems.

While China's actions are driving the two countries closer, the possibility of a U.S. alliance troubles hardline members of the Party and Politburo, thanks to worries about it being a quiet way for the U.S. to push harder for greater transparency and democracy. But to really understand the limits to U.S.-Vietnam cooperation, consider this: many in Australia agree that Australia cannot hope to stay militarily close to the US _and_ trade well with China. Given that China is also Vietnam's largest trading partner, and that the nations share a border, hold security dialogues, and are tied through communist party links, an alliance would be a hard thing for Vietnam to manage (even ignoring its formal policy of non-alignment).

Every nation is engaged in its own hedging game between the two great powers. There are limits to how close Hanoi can move to Washington, but such moves do rattle Beijing, and may provide greater breathing room in the South China Sea, which is what this is about in the first place.

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## Viet

*Assault Rifle

Israel made TAR-21* appears to be the standard assault rifle of Navy Corps (Hải quân)









*CTAR-21* light version for Marine Corps (Hải quân đánh bộ)

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## Viet

*Submarine warfare
*
June 8. Today appears an interesting article on a Vietnam defence forum, that I want to translate here. I think it isn´t a state secret, since the article is posted on a public forum. I freely copy some text parts of wiki and google, since the stuffs are a bit of technique and adding my comments.

How will Vietnam submarine force plan to escape the enemy sonar network and target their surface warships and subs in the SC Sea with missiles and torpedoes?












To detect objects on or under the surface of the water a sonar system is used. there are basically two modes: passive and active mode. *passive* sonar is essentially listening for the sound made by vessels, while *active* sonar is emitting pulses of sounds and listening for echoes. it is similar to daily situation when you speak to a wall and listen to the echo coming back (reflection). there is a certain delay in the time when you speak and when the echo arrives at your ears.

The acoustic frequencies used in sonar systems vary from very low (infrasonic) to extremely high (ultrasonic). once the sonar signals are captured, location (position) and kind of the object (due to its unique characteristics) can be determined.

According to information made to public, sonar systems on ships operating in the South China Sea are mostly of DUBV-23, DUBV-43 and combined sonar Platina MS-E. with range of 20 km.

"*blind zone*": if we operate our Kilo submarines in the blind zone (e.i. out of enemy sonar detection range), we are safe. However, to put our subs into the zone, this requires external scouts, that closely monitor enemy ships, especially submarine hunters. in the safe zone, our Kilo can fire anti-ship missiles 3M-54E (range 200 km supersonic) or 3M-54E1 (range 300 km subsonic), and torpedo VA-111 (range 15 km) to destroy them.

In short, one Kilo is enough, if positioned in the right place, can bring death and destruction to an entire enemy escort fleet.

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## Viet

_...coming much faster than expected. the new patrol boats for the Coast Guard: Metal Shark._
*

U.S. Department of Defense contracts Jeanerette company to build patrol boats for Vietnam’s Coast Guard*

Billy Gunn | bgunn@theadvocate.com
June 08, 2015







*Louisiana ‘playing an outsized role’
*
Though they may not be fully aware of it, the 248 employees of south Louisiana boat builder Metal Shark will play a role in a geopolitical chess match between the U.S. and China in the South China Sea.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter in late May pledged funding to purchase Metal Shark Defiant 75 Class patrol boats for the Vietnam Coast Guard. Last year, Vietnamese sailors had one of their patrol boats rammed by a Chinese ship, and they routinely play cat-and-mouse games with the communist country.

Metal Shark Vice President Greg Lambrecht said last week the company hopes to begin building the boats in July. Lambrecht would not say what the dollar amount of the contract was or how many of the 40-knot cruising Defiant 75 boats the company would build.

A story by Reuters said the contract was for $18 million.

Once America’s enemy, Vietnam is now a U.S. ally and one of the countries with interests in claiming the many islands that dot the South China Sea.




























The U.S., like Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines, has an interest in keeping an increasingly aggressive China in check, U.S. Rep. Charles Boustany said last week.

“As this region becomes more contentious, Louisiana is playing an outsized role in representing American interests and helping our friends with their security needs,” said Boustany, a Republican from Lafayette.

According to Bloomberg, the vast South China Sea is the transportation route for $5.3 trillion in cargo each year and has estimated reserves of 11 billion barrels of oil and 190 trillion cubic feet of gas.

On Wednesday, Metal Shark employees at the Jeanerette facility tended to the day’s business: bending aluminum at precise angles with a 150-ton press; cutting lines and curves in aluminum sheets with computer guidance; wiring up consoles that will be easily installed; and mixing paint to meet specifications. Every square foot of the facility was in production, and every hand at the site was busy.

Nineteen miles from the Jeanerette yard, 65 Metal Shark craftsmen built bigger boats at the company’s Franklin facility, which is next to a dock on the Charenton Drainage and Navigational Canal. The canal has access to the Gulf of Mexico.

Lambrecht said the Franklin facility will handle the Vietnam order, which is still in the contracting stage.
“We’re the first defense equipment provider to enter that market,” Lambrecht said. “It’s exciting for us. That market is one of our growth markets.”











The Gravois family started Gravois Aluminum Boats in 1986 at the Jeanerette facility, selling boats to Gulf fishermen. In 2006 the company signed its first military contract to build and deliver 90 boats, and the company took on the name Metal Shark.

Metal Shark now produces 150 to 200 boats a year, and is the preferred small patrol boat builder for the U.S. Coast Guard. It also builds for the Navy, Army, Air Force, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries and for the state’s sheriff’s offices.

And it builds patrol boats for foreign governments and sends training teams internationally, including to Vietnam.

*“It’s exciting to see a South Louisiana company like Metal Shark playing such an important role helping navies and coast guards in the South China Sea stand their ground against Chinese expansion,”* said Boustany, who has visited the region.

The Metal Shark Defiant 75 Class, the vessels that will be sold to Vietnam, will be constructed at the Franklin facility, a more expansive locale that Metal Shark opened about a year ago, Lambrecht said.


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## Viet

June 8. Visit of General Pehin Tawih, Commander of Royal Brunei Armed Forces (RBAF) to the Army Headquarters.






June 9. Slovakia Defence Minister Martin Glavac on a visit to Vietnam. Signing memorandum of understanding MoD on defence cooperation.


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## Viet

rare picture: Vietnam Coast Guard personnel being trained in the US.


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## pher

Viet said:


> rare picture: Vietnam Coast Guard personnel being trained in the US.
> View attachment 228500



US' trained toops were piece of shit just like them, before it was south korea and south vietnam, recently afghnistan and iraq, now you little viets. awaiting for get slaughtered by PLA.

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## Viet

Coming soon: new antiship missile for surface warships: Vietnam made *Kh-35UE*
(source: Báo Đất Việt)

Improvements against the Vietnam made *Kh-35E*, currently installed on Molniya and Gepard warships:

- extended range: 260 km (up from 130 km)
- active radar seeker: range 50 km (up from 20 km)
- warhead: 300 kg (up from 145 kg)

Besides, as usual, the missile flies sea-skimming (10 m en route and 4 m at terminal phase), stealthy (low signatures), can be employed in fair and adverse weather conditions, storms up to 5-6, by day and night, under enemy fire and electronic countermeasures, very difficult to be intercepted. Flight mission data is inserted into the missile control system. At a certain target range, the homing head is switched on to search for, lock on and track the target. It is designed to attack vessels up to 5,000 tons.

The new to build 4 Molniya will likely carry the new missiles.

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## Aqsuperman

lol really ? since when your Chinese slaughter Japanese in real life ? google (oh wait , can you guys use it ? :v ) Battle of Shanghai or Second Sino-Japanese war , your Chinese got pratically wiped out , before the massive aids from Soviet and US , for every Japanese your Chinese killed there will be 30 dead Chinese , wake up from your wet dream , you cant kill Japanese planes and tanks with arrows or whatever crappy weapons you see on your damn fiction movies . Without help from other countries (mainly the Pacific front ) There will be 1000 Nanking across China and surely you guys cant do crap about it , we all have access to many sources of infomation so stop thinking that with blocked internet of your , you are the better among us , back in 1940s we were fighting French , shall we failed ( because we were "uncivilized and live on the jungle trees" then you think that France wouldnt use left over japan runway to bomb the crap outta you ?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Submarine warfare
> *
> June 8. Today appears an interesting article on a Vietnam defence forum, that I want to translate here. I think it isn´t a state secret, since the article is posted on a public forum. I freely copy some text parts of wiki and google, since the stuffs are a bit of technique and adding my comments.
> 
> How will Vietnam submarine force plan to escape the enemy sonar network and target their surface warships and subs in the SC Sea with missiles and torpedoes?
> 
> View attachment 228207
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 228206
> 
> 
> To detect objects on or under the surface of the water a sonar system is used. there are basically two modes: passive and active mode. *passive* sonar is essentially listening for the sound made by vessels, while *active* sonar is emitting pulses of sounds and listening for echoes. it is similar to daily situation when you speak to a wall and listen to the echo coming back (reflection). there is a certain delay in the time when you speak and when the echo arrives at your ears.
> 
> The acoustic frequencies used in sonar systems vary from very low (infrasonic) to extremely high (ultrasonic). once the sonar signals are captured, location (position) and kind of the object (due to its unique characteristics) can be determined.
> 
> According to information made to public, sonar systems on ships operating in the South China Sea are mostly of DUBV-23, DUBV-43 and combined sonar Platina MS-E. with range of 20 km.
> 
> "*blind zone*": if we operate our Kilo submarines in the blind zone (e.i. out of enemy sonar detection range), we are safe. However, to put our subs into the zone, this requires external scouts, that closely monitor enemy ships, especially submarine hunters. in the safe zone, our Kilo can fire anti-ship missiles 3M-54E (range 200 km supersonic) or 3M-54E1 (range 300 km subsonic), and torpedo VA-111 (range 15 km) to destroy them.
> 
> In short, one Kilo is enough, if positioned in the right place, can bring death and destruction to an entire enemy escort fleet.
> 
> View attachment 228239
> 
> 
> View attachment 228240



Well, ASW is a bit more complex than that. A sub can actually be navigating under a ASW ship and still be undetected because sonar waves usually only reach specific layers of the water and if the sub is navigating in a layer that the sonar can't reach (which is what subs usually try to do), then it wont be detected. That's why we've seen subs surfacing undetected right next to carrier battle groups.

*SUBS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO DETECT.*


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, ASW is a bit more complex than that. A sub can actually be navigating under a ASW ship and still be undetected because* sonar waves usually only reach specific layers of the water* and if the sub is navigating in a layer that the sonar can't reach (which is what subs usually try to do), then it wont be detected. That's why we've seen subs surfacing undetected right next to carrier battle groups.
> 
> *SUBS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO DETECT.*


yeah you got me. I was not aware of the fact. can you explain a bit more?


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## Aqsuperman

Technically speaking , depend on what types of sonar (passive or active) , there is a practice called "thermal layers hiding" . Since active sonar usually also reveal your own position , only surface ships (noisy) commonly use it assuming that enemy threats already track you through sateline data or very fast planes , and in some case a disposable sonobuoys , in the other hand submarines mostly use passive sonar (they can still use active sonar should the need to locate enemy is higher than concealing themselve ) to ensure both steath (passive sonar doesnt require a sound transmitter ) and range , and of course passive sonar require extensive maintance and much more expensive than active sonar , so only high-level ships and submarines use it , some ASW class ships use it as well , In the ASW case passive radar allown you to see through the water in a wide angle but the ship own noise interference , moving stream in the ocean and even fish can be quite an obstacle , and submarines can use "thermal layers hiding" (means hiding between sonar signals from either the surrounding or detection angle )

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yeah you got me. I was not aware of the fact. can you explain a bit more?



The way a sonar wave propagates through the depth of the water is not uniform. Water temperature and salinity levels creates different conditions for sound propagation and as a results the water depth gets divided into layers. Depending of the circumstances of all those conditions, a sonar usually reaches 1 particular layer of the water. If the sub navigates on another layer, as they usually do, then, you can't detect the submarine. This all applies mostly to active sonars.

Passive sonars don't emite a signal, they just listen for water noise, but again, if the noise of the sub is trapped in a layer, then the sonar can't detect it and anyway, the surface ship is usually noisier than the sub so the ship's noise also helps to cover up the sub's noise.

End of the story: Neither active or passive sonars are very good to detect a good sub. They can only detect it if all the right conditions are just right for that or if the sub is noisy (as most chinese subs are).

Again: *Subs are very difficult to detect, that's why I always say that VN needs more subs.*



Aqsuperman said:


> lol really ? since when your Chinese slaughter Japanese in real life ? google (oh wait , can you guys use it ? :v ) Battle of Shanghai or Second Sino-Japanese war , your Chinese got pratically wiped out , before the massive aids from Soviet and US , for every Japanese your Chinese killed there will be 30 dead Chinese , wake up from your wet dream , you cant kill Japanese planes and tanks with arrows or whatever crappy weapons you see on your damn fiction movies . Without help from other countries (mainly the Pacific front ) There will be 1000 Nanking across China and surely you guys cant do crap about it , we all have access to many sources of infomation so stop thinking that with blocked internet of your , you are the better among us , back in 1940s we were fighting French , shall we failed ( because we were "uncivilized and live on the jungle trees" then you think that France wouldnt use left over japan runway to bomb the crap outta you ?



I'm in china right now, you can always find movies on television showing the chinese beating up on the Japanese in the war, its just part of the propaganda and brainwashing.

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## Viet

_a brief summary of viet-russo relationship. one thing I notice in the article: the Gepard fleet is set to increase to six by 2017. from the economics front, a__ free-trade agreement (FTA) between the Eurasian Economic Union and Vietnam was signed in May. Vietnam investments in Russia are expected to reach $4b this year end._

_cheer!_

*Return of the Russians: Why the bear is back in Vietnam*
June 9, 2015 Rakesh Krishnan Simha, special to RBTH

*Vietnam’s growing strategic relationship with Russia is closely connected to its oil-fuelled bonanza in a highly contested area. At the same time, it brings Russia a myriad of benefits in the world’s most economically vibrant region.*








Russia-Vietnam ties that seemed to be cooling after the end of the Cold War are warming up all over again. More than 20 years after Moscow abandoned its largest foreign base, Russian military aircraft are once again welcome visitors at Cam Ranh Bay.

The renewed Russian presence in Vietnam has predictably set the alarm bells are ringing in the Pentagon, with the Commander of the U.S. Army in the Pacific confirming that Russian strategic bombers circling the massive American military base in Guam are being refueled at Cam Ranh Bay. On March 11 Washington wrote to Hanoi requesting that the Vietnamese authorities not assist Russian bomber flights in the Asia-Pacific.

The Vietnamese reaction was to remain publicly silent. According to Phuong Nguyen of the Washington-based Center for Strategic & International Studies, “From the perspective of many Vietnamese officials who fought against the United States during the war, Moscow helped train generations of Vietnamese leaders and supported Hanoi during its decades of international isolation.”

Nguyen adds: “Few things are more vital to Vietnam than an independent foreign policy. Given Vietnam’s complex history, its leaders do not want their country to be caught between major powers again. Anything that resembles U.S. interference in Vietnam’s dealings with Russia could unnecessarily aggravate this fear.”

Although the Vietnamese consider the U.S. an increasingly important partner in Southeast Asia, it’s Russia that tops the pecking order. A per an agreement inked in November 2014, Russian warships visiting the deep water port of Cam Ranh only have to give prior notice to the Vietnamese authorities before steaming in whereas all other foreign navies are limited to just one annual ship visit to Vietnamese ports.

*Vietnam: Why it matters*

Located at the gateway to the Indian and Pacific Oceans, Vietnam is of critical importance to Russia. Permanent basing of air and naval assets in Vietnam helps the Russian Pacific Fleet solve its problem of having to pass through the narrow straits of the Sea of Japan to gain access to the Pacific.

To be sure, the current Russian presence is minimal compared with the firepower of the 1980s, when Moscow’s Pacific fleet consisted of an incredible 826 ships, including 133 submarines, 190 naval bomber jets and 150 anti-submarine aircraft. In fact, back then Alvin H. Bernstein of the U.S. Naval War College had written the Russian buildup is “unlikely to have a specific, aggressive, regional intent since that would be quite out of character for a power” that has revealed itself as “cautious and non-confrontational”.

Three decades on, Moscow under President Vladimir Putin is once again seeking to enhance its role as both an Asian and global power, and as Bernstein noted, the country wants to be “prepared for all contingencies and opportunities”.

It’s also part of Vietnam’s Look East policy. In fact, much before U.S. President Barack Obama announced its pivot to Asia, Russia was already pivoting East, making inroads into once pro-American countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia.

However, it is in Vietnam where Russian diplomacy is in overdrive. But first a quick flashback.

Vietnam is a small country with a military that punches way above its weight. For those with short memories, the Southeast Asia country handed out resounding defeats to France and the U.S. in back to back wars. Stupendous bravery, clever battle tactics and a never-say-die spirit were decisive in winning those wars, but a key factor was that the Vietnamese had powerful friends.

During the Vietnam War, Russia played a critical role in Vietnam’s defence, supplying a massive quantity of weapons. Over the course of the 21-year war Russian assistance was worth $2 million a day. In return, Vietnam offered Russia free use of the Cam Ranh Bay base. As part of this agreement, the Russians stationed MiG-23 fighters, Tu-16 tankers, Tu-95 long range bombers and Tu-142 maritime reconnaissance aircraft at the base.

Cam Ranh became Moscow’s largest naval base for forward deployment outside Europe. Some 20 ships were berthed daily at the base, along with six nuclear attack submarines. The base played a pivotal role in helping Russia in its Cold War faceoff against American-led forces in Asia and the Pacific. For instance, when the U.S. Seventh Fleet sailed up the Bay of Bengal to put pressure on India during the 1971 India Pakistan War, the Russian Pacific Fleet was quickly able to dispatch nuclear-armed submarines and warships to defend India.

Despite Cam Ranh Bay’s importance to Moscow geopolitically and its value as an intelligence gathering post, the Russian presence practically evaporated after the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Military bases of the scale of Cam Ranh Bay cost an insane amount of money to operate and Russia no longer had cash to burn. In 2001, even the listening station was abandoned.

*Splurging on Russian weapons*

Although the Russian military presence declined, strong ties continued to bind Russia and Vietnam. In the backdrop of Vietnam’s high-decibel spat with China for control of the oil-rich Spratly Islands, Hanoi went on a high-octane hardware hunt. Vietnam’s legendary air force acquired 24 Su-30 combat jets from Russia, and by the end of 2015, it will operate 36 Sukhois, becoming the third largest operator of this advanced super-maneuverable aircraft.

However, it is the Vietnam People’s Army Navy (VPAN) that is really beefing up. In 2009, Vietnam signed a $3.2 billion deal with Russia that includes six Kilo class submarines and construction of a submarine facility at Cam Ranh Bay.

Another big-ticket acquisition is that of 50 Klub supersonic cruise missiles for its fleet of Kilo class submarines, making Vietnam the first Southeast Asian nation to arm its submarine fleet with a land attack missile.

Russian built submarines armed with the potent Klubs are expected to play a critical role in any conflict in the South China Sea. According to one analyst, the land-attack cruise missiles mark a “massive shift” advancing Vietnam’s naval capabilities. *“They’ve given themselves a much more powerful deterrent that complicates China’s strategic calculations.”*

While the subs are being built, Russia and India are currently in charge of training Vietnamese officers who will work in the submarines.

Plus in 2011 the VPAN acquired two Gepard-class guided missile stealth frigates from Russia at a cost of $300 million, with the Gepard fleet set to increase to six by 2017. These versatile ships are equipped for surface attacks, anti-submarine warfare and air defense.

The VPAN’s other acquisitions include four Svetlyak-class fast patrol boats with anti-ship missiles; 12 frigates and corvettes of Russian origin; and two Molniya-class missile fast attack ships built with Russian assistance, with four more expected by 2016.

Vietnam has also acquired advanced radars; 40 Yakhont and 400 Kh-35 Uran anti-ship missiles; Kh-59MK anti-ship cruise missiles; R-73 (AA-11 Archer) short-range air-to-air missiles; 200 SA-19 Grison surface-to-air missiles; two batteries of the legendary S-300 surface-to-air systems; VERA passive radio locators; and two batteries of the K-300P Bastion coastal defense missiles.

*Economic angle*

According to a research paper by Portugal-based academics Phuc Thi Tran, Alena Vysotskaya G. Vieira and Laura C. Ferreira-Pereira, “The acquisition of military capabilities is critical, not only purely for the sake of defense and strategic calculations, but also for the important function it plays in the safeguarding of both economic interests and the security of oil field explorations in the South China Sea. This latter aspect is particularly critical given the role that Russia has been playing herein. Indeed, the lion’s share of these exploitation projects has being undertaken by Vietnam jointly with Russia.”

While defense gets more traction in the media, it is energy that’s the single biggest area of cooperation between Moscow and Hanoi. The Russia-Vietnam joint venture Vietsovpetro has generated big dividends for both countries. The company has produced more than 185 million tons of crude oil and more than 21 billion cubic meters of gas from oilfields in the South China Sea. Nearly 80 per cent of Vietnamese oil and gas comes from Vietsovpetro, and the income corresponds to around 25 per cent of GDP.

Russia has also made considerable investments in Vietnam’s heavy and light industries, transportation, post, aquatic culture and fishing. These projects have led to other spinoffs – impressed by the profits generated by Russian corporations, a slew of other companies such as Mobil, BP and TOTAL have ramped up investments in Vietnam.

Vietnam’s strategic hedging towards Russia is closely connected to its economic cooperation in oil exploration, which brings significant economic benefits to both sides. Strong defense ties between the two countries has enabled Vietnam to acquire modern military equipment, providing the country with the ability to advance joint explorations of oil and gas despite growing Chinese opposition towards these projects.

At the same time, Russia is returning to reclaim its great power legacy. It offers Moscow a myriad of opportunities to secure political and economic influence with the various emerging powers in the heart of the most dynamic region on the planet.

http://asia.rbth.com/blogs/2015/06/09/return_of_the_russians_why_the_bear_is_back_in_vietnam_46727.html)

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## Viet

source: comcom

a 105mm *artillery *






a machine gun postition







march!












On a maneuver







the Coast Guard





US defence Secretary Ashton Carter visiting the VCG at his recent visit to Vietnam.







General Vinh in a interview with a foreign media (Singapore)

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## Viet

2 Vietnamese Su-30 bombers at low-altitude flight over the island Truong Sa in the SC Sea.

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## Viet

the Coast Guard






Coming soon: thank to the US, at least a dozen of military-grade Metal Shark 75 Defiant class. one interesting thing is, Greg Lambrecht, the Vice President of his company reveals Metal Shark Aluminium Boats has been working with the Vietnamese Coast Guard though the U.S. State Department and U.S. Coast Guard for more than two years on the project. so under the surface there is a secret cooperation between VN and US running since years.






Metal Shark gets orders - The Daily Iberian: News

Specs:
Length, 75’ / 22.86 m
Beam: 21’ / 6.4 m
Operational Draft, Outboards: 39” / .99 m
Fuel Capacity (Std): 3,000 gallons / 11,356 L


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## Aqsuperman

well hope all of those water cannon will be replace by high caliber stuffs


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## Viet

not a problem. the Metal Shark high-speed boat is military grade, widely used by the US Navy and Coast Guard. do you like this gun? say Yes, and you get forward and aft machine gun mounted.


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## Viet

*Land-based Balistic Missile*

This news may bore other members from countries, that possess advanced balistic missiles. If so, they may skip this.

in a report of Ministry of Defence, Vietnam´s Military Institute of Science and Technology has mastered this baby: Scud-B short range balistic missile. it is an old tech, but one has to start somewhere.

Scud-B, mounted on a wheeled military vehicle 9P117 Uragan, MAZ-543 truck, 11.25 m long, 0.88 m in diameter, launch weight of 5,900 kg, 985kg conventional high-explosive warhead, range of 300 km with accuracy of 450 m CEP. approximately one hour to finish a single launch sequence. It uses an inertial guidance system and a single-stage liquid propellant engine. Vietnam has undisclosed number of missiles and launchers, reportely received 12 launchers from the Soviet Union in 1979.



























...and some may be aware that North Korea balistic missile program bases upon Scud technology. it is just a short leg to go from B to C variant.

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## Viet

carlosa, I hope you come back soon from the ban.
aqsuperman, it will nice if you continue posting in this thread. dito to other viet members.

I have little interest to be the lonely contributor. thinking to stop here. Otherwise.

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnamese Type 63 on the move , old China war-supplied since 70s , recently updated with a new ventilation system and increasing engine power , interestingly in 1979 war , China commited many armored , infantry and arty units with the same equipments as some of our , so both side of the war firing Type 56 AK , attacking emplacement with Type 59 and Type 63 , bombard each other with Type 59-1...............talking about hard to differ friend from foe when everyone shooting the same things

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## NiceGuy

My God, old Scud missile , but still work well, US Patriot cant intercept . VN also possess thousand scud missile.





----------------------------------------------

The Saudi Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Muhammad bin Ahmed Al-Shaalan was killed in a Scud missile cross-border attack by Yemeni Houthi rebels on the big King Khalid Air Base at Khamis Mushayt in the southwestern Asir region of Saudi Arabia,DEBKAfile reports. The attack took place on June 6, but his death was concealed under a blanket of secrecy until Wednesday, June 10.

The largest Saudi air base, it is from there that the kingdom has for last two and a half months waged its air campaign to end the Yemeni insurgency. Saudi and coalition air strikes, directed against the Iranian-backed Houthi rebels, their allies from the Yemeni army and from local tribes, have killed an estimated 2,000 people, some of them civilians, including women and children.
DEBKAfile’s military sources in the Gulf remarked that even the tardy official disclosure of Gen. Al-Shaalan’s death Wednesday left more questions than answers. The terse three-line announcement said: “The Commander of Saudi Royal Air Forces Lieutenant General Mohammed bin Ahmed Al-Shaalan died Wednesday during a working trip outside the kingdom from a heart attack.”
No information was provided about the nature of his putative “working trip,” its destination and purpose - or even the date of his funeral.
*Our military sources report that the Houthis’ Scud attack caught the Saudis unawares. The only reaction from the air base came from the American teams operating Patriot counter-missile batteries. They tried to shoot down the incoming missiles and managed to intercept only two or three out of a barrage of 15.
The US has deployed Patriots at Khamis Mushayt to shield the special operations units and drones fighting Al Qaeda in Arabia (AQIP*). But since the start of the Yemen civil war, American drones have been feeding the Saudi Air Force with intelligence about Houthi targets and movements.
Saudi air chief killed in Yemeni rebel Scud attack on Khamis Mushayt air base

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## Aqsuperman

UH-1 is one of few weapons still in active despite their root since ARVN time (the others are M113 APC , M101 howitzer and so on) , meaning parts and ammunitions are very very hard to come by after being expended in 1979 war in both front and more than 10 years of small scale skirmish , still recently , the fleet is coming back to regular servive with overhaul from Australia and parts from many third party dealer (US at this time wont sell VN any of these things) .Some picture of them .
Unarmed and armed


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> UH-1 is one of few weapons still in active despite their root since ARVN time (the others are M113 APC , M101 howitzer and so on) , meaning parts and ammunitions are very very hard to come by after being expended in 1979 war in both front and more than 10 years of small scale skirmish , still recently , the fleet is coming back to regular servive with overhaul from Australia and parts from many third party dealer (US at this time wont sell VN any of these things) .Some picture of them .
> Unarmed and armed
> View attachment 229710
> View attachment 229711



Vietnam going to buy western fighters (EF2000, Jas-39, F-16) like western media say or no?


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## Viet

EF2000 or Typhoon is scrap. even the german airforce (die luftwaffe) hates the Jet.

- real purchasing price a piece: 180 million euro
- operation cost per hour: 80,000 euro
- no stealth
- a lot of problems from software to mechanics, with many still unsolved
- approved and configured as interceptor, but not as bomber or maritime fighter
- delivery problems with spare parts and ammunitions. taking ages to get the orders through.

more, the article below mentions in year 2013 die Luftwaffe grounded the entire fleet as they discovered issue with the parachute system. at any given time just half of the fleet is combat ready, the other half has diverse issues. crazy.

Eurofighter: Verteidigungsministerin Ursula von der Leyen räumt auf in ihrem Haus


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## Aqsuperman

Buying Western jet from any sources right now is highly unlikely , there is indeed plan to buy them in the past , notably the Mirage 2000 in 2000s (end up dead because of US embargo) , but consider the "hot and urgent situaition" right now , the time and money require to put a new jet in active service (pilot training , maintaince facility and so on ) are simply unacceptable , only more modern Su-30 coming atleast for now , of course there can be sudden dramatic development but that is very low . Still , Western aircraft do show much promishing in other role , mainly for transporting and long range ASW , which our old as Earth Antonov fleet and short range ASW Kamov helicopter need to be replace or strenghthen

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## Echo_419

Aqsuperman said:


> Buying Western jet from any sources right now is highly unlikely , there is indeed plan to buy them in the past , notably the Mirage 2000 in 2000s (end up dead because of US embargo) , but consider the "hot and urgent situaition" right now , the time and money require to put a new jet in active service (pilot training , maintaince facility and so on ) are simply unacceptable , only more modern Su-30 coming atleast for now , of course there can be sudden dramatic development but that is very low . Still , Western aircraft do show much promishing in other role , mainly for transporting and long range ASW , which our old as Earth Antonov fleet and short range ASW Kamov helicopter need to be replace or strenghthen




Vietnam should go for more SUs


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## Viet

_I was not aware until recently. Yakhont cruise missile not only can hit enemy ships but land targets as well. Thanks to the delivery of Gorizont geographic information system. providing detailed maps of targets. It works together with Bastion coastal missile complex and Monolit-B surface and air reconnaissance System._


Russia Supplies Vietnam with Advanced Geoinformation System

19.02.2015
Vietnam Received Geographic Information System for the Missile Complex "Bastion"








Russia has supplied Vietnam with the newest Gorizont geographic information system for the Bastion coastal missile complex. This was reported by a source in the sphere of military-technical cooperation.

“We have supplied our Vietnamese partners with the Gorizont geographic information system.This system is designed for the Bastion coastal missile complex and Monolit-B surface and air reconnaissance complex,” the source informed.







It’s worth mentioning that the Gorizont system was designed by Russia’s Automatic Equipment Research Institute. This development was presented at the MILEX-2014 exhibition. The Gorizont system has unique capabilities in terms of performance, information quality and processed data volumes.

The Bastion complex equipped with the Yakhont missiles is intended to destroy surface ships of different classes and types as part of landing units, escorts, ship groups and aircraft carriers, as well as single ships and ground targets.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Yakhont cruise missile*

specs: coastal installations, truck mounted, part of vietnam coastal artillery and missile defence shield against naval and aerial attacks from the SC Sea, length 8.9m, diameter 0,7m, wingspan 1.7m, weight 3 tons, warhead conventional 250kg, active/passive radar seeker, midcourse inertial guidance, speed Mach 2.5, 10m sea skimming at terminal phase.

_




_


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## Aqsuperman

Rear view of a L-39 , a jet trainer of Czech origin , about 26 in active service . Yak 130 will replace them in the future...........hopefully :v


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## JaiMin

Just read news from english.cntv.cn
Our navy just have a joint drill with CHina in Beibu gulf, how come don't see any report news?


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## Aqsuperman

JaiMin said:


> Just read news from english.cntv.cn
> Our navy just have a joint drill with CHina in Beibu gulf, how come don't see any report news?


After i google it (and assuming that it authentic) , i see this happen very frequently (as the source said its the 18th time) , all about joint patrol , sending human dummy overboard then call for rescue and so on . Perfectly normal (even with the 
heated situaition on the sea ) and probably just not "hot" enough to get into either VN papers or online news


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## Viet

Echo_419 said:


> Vietnam should go for more SUs


yea more Su-30 and Su-27 bombers. they are effective, more affordable, combat proven. I think the government wants a better deal with russia when negotiating with western countries for toys.

pics: Su-27 bomb raid excercise


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## Viet

JaiMin said:


> Just read news from english.cntv.cn
> Our navy just have a joint drill with CHina in Beibu gulf, how come don't see any report news?


no news of any naval excercises, but I think it is a drill with the both countires coast guards. the annual joint Vietnam-China patrol for fisheries inspections in the Gulf of Tonkin.

VN Coast Guard’s largest vessel joins joint patrol with China - News VietNamNet

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## Aqsuperman

RBU-6000 , so far the most effective anti-submarine weapon for our surface fleets , future Gepards may also possess this , only 3 Petya remain ASW but all 5 retain this weapon because of its destructive power for any target

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## Viet

June 16.

Launch of new patrol and rescue vessel FC624-01. made in Vietnam, designed by Hai Minh Company under the Ministry of Defence. 63 metres long, 12 metres wide, 700 tons, 15 days at sea, range 4,200 miles. It is equipped with special facilities and information system in line with GMDSS-A3 international standard. the vessel can host 120 people onboard.

the coding FC624-01 suggests more of this class will be produced. -02, -03, etc.


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## Aqsuperman

The old glory  Mi Mi 24A used to be the heaviest gunship of the VPAF (beside the small number of rocket-armed UH-1) Khmer Rouge bases near Thailand-Cambodia border are the main target for them . Now due to the age of the hull which is far beyond overhaul or modernize , their role now being replace by Mi MI 17 and some remain UH-1


----------



## Aqsuperman

HQ 501 , another relic from ARVN time (passed down from US navy ) , been in active service since 1944 , a tank-landing ship . Now in VPN serive , HQ 501 will be used for launching the intinal tank wave (consist of PT-76 and Type 63 ) in a amphibious assaunt . The ship is also armed with 40mm and 20mm capable of providing covering fire for the the landing force (assuming that we still have ammmo for them :v )


----------



## JaiMin

Interesting article about Cham:

*The ancestors of Vietnam's Cham people built one of the great empires of Southeast Asia.*

*Tensions in the South China Sea reignited last month, when China deployed a government-owned oil drilling rig in an area also claimed by Vietnam just south of the Paracel Islands.*

*Anti-China protesters broke into and torched Chinese, Taiwanese, and South Korean factories in southern Vietnam. According to media reports, as many as 21 people died in the chaos, and more than a hundred were injured. Thousands of Chinese workers fled the country.*

*Under dispute are the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos, which are mostly uninhabited, and a central region of the South China Sea, which is home to overlapping claims by China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines.*

*2*

*But the dispute between Vietnam and China is grabbing the most attention. Both have referred to historical ties with the islands, in China's case dating to the Han Dynasty (206 B.C. to A.D. 220), to support their claims in the region.*

*Meanwhile, in Vietnam the roughly 160,000 members of the Cham ethnic minority, whose forebears dominated the South China Sea for more than a millennium, are quietly on the sidelines of the escalating conflict.*

*Two centuries after their then-diminished dominion ended violently at the hands of Vietnamese Emperor Minh Mang, the Cham remain wary of engaging in such disputes, the current version of which is a reminder of the symbolic and economic importance of the South China Sea and of the Cham culture that once was enriched by trade across it.*

*Kingdoms of Champa*

*For centuries the South China Sea was known by navigators throughout Asia as the Champa Sea, named for a great empire that controlled all of central Vietnam, from the northern border of today's Quang Binh Province to roughly the southern border of Binh Thuan Province.*

*At the peak of the Champa empire, from around the 6th to the 15th centuries, its various kingdoms, presided over by regional royal families, also included sizable portions of eastern Cambodia and Laos.*





*The oldest artifacts of a distinctly Cham civilization—brick flooring, sandstone pillars, and pottery found at Tra Kieu in Quang Nam Province—date to the second century A.D.*

*A notable Champa legacy is the red-brick temples, or Cham towers, the oldest found dating to the seventh and eighth centuries. The temple city of My Son, near Hoi An, preserved as a UNESCO World Heritage site, has nearly 70 individual structures.*

*Archaeologists have identified several Cham citadels and some 25 temple sites (each with varying numbers of towers) still standing along Vietnam's coast. Recent explorations suggest that hundreds of ruined sites may line rivers leading into the Central Highlands and beyond to eastern Cambodia and Laos.*

*Deep Roots*

*Malayo-Polynesian-speaking ancestors of the Cham are thought to have arrived in Vietnam by sea from Borneo. Most scholars believe the Cham are descendants of the Sa Huynh, who occupied the same area from roughly 1000 B.C. to the second century A.D., when the Cham culture began flowering.*

*Sa Huynh relics have been found as far away as Taiwan, the Philippines, and Malaysia, indicating that the people sailed, traded, and settled around what was then the Champa Sea.*

*The Sa Huynh adorned their dead with agate, carnelian, and glass beads from India and Iran, as well as rare gold and glass beads from the Mediterranean—all likely traded by sea—and entombed the bodies in large clay jars.*

*Ornate burial earrings included a style consisting of a hanging bar with a horned animal head on either end. The earrings were often made of glass, gemstones, or jade from Taiwan.*

*Recent excavations uncovered evidence of Sa Huynh burial sites (and Cham relics) not only on the Vietnamese mainland and offshore islands such as Phu Quy, but also on the islands of Namyit and Spratly—ground zero of today's contested area.*

*Champa's Reach*

*The Cham had a vast trade network, with routes extending northeast to China, Taiwan, and Japan and south to Malaysia and Indonesia.*

*Their wealth—gold and silver, gems, spices, aromatic agarwood, exotic animals, and slaves—was renowned all the way to India, the Middle East, and even the farthest reaches of North Africa.*

*During Champa's golden age, a Muslim geographer wrote that the islands "produced ivory, camphor, nutmeg, mace, cloves, agarwood, cardamom, cubeb, and other substances."*

*Several shipwrecks are evidence of trade between Champa and the Philippines via the Spratly Islands. One vessel—the Pandanan wreck, found off the Philippine island of Palawan—is believed to have left the Champa coast sometime between 1450 and 1470, carrying green-glazed ceramics made in the Cham kingdom of Vijaya.*

*In 1997 Philippine authorities salvaged a centuries-old vessel off Thitu Island in the Spratlys containing about a thousand granite carvings that appear to have been taken from unknown Champa sites.*

*Many of the habitable islands in the western part of the ancient Champa Sea held Cham communities. Cham temple ruins, pottery, jewelry, and bricks have been found on Phu Quy, for instance. People in the area today, although considered ethnic Vietnamese, speak a dialect unlike that of mainlanders, and their crafts and culture are more similar to those of the Cham than the Vietnamese.*

*Farther north, the islands of Ly Son and Cham were also major Cham satellites.*

*4*



*A Mix of Faiths*

*The Cham took up Hinduism early, likely converted by Indian merchants, and blended it with their traditional beliefs. Hindu Cham are called Balamon.*

*Before the end of the first millennium, Muslim traders introduced Islam, and Muslim Cham became known as Bani.*

*As early as 986, Chinese records refer to communities on the island of Hainan that were made up of Cham Muslims, whose descendants today are Utsuls.*

*In addition to their respective Muslim and Hindu practices, Balamon and Bani both worship ancestors, kings, and Cham deities. Bani, and some Balamon, observe a variation of Ramadan called Ramawan.*

*Ravages of War*

*The Champa empire was the chief rival of the Khmer Empire, in Cambodia, and Dai Viet, an early Vietnamese kingdom to the north. Champa's conflicts with Dai Viet seem to have started at the end of the tenth century, as the Vietnamese pushed south to the Cham kingdom of Vijaya (today's Quy Nhon).*

*Bas reliefs in a temple at Angkor depict an epic naval battle between the Khmer and Champa in the 12th century. The Cham navy was unrivaled, but on land the Cham suffered many costly defeats.*

*Territorial wrangling continued until 1471, when Vijaya was finally captured, and by the mid-1600s the Champa empire had been reduced to its southern kingdom of Panduranga (now Ninh Thuan and Binh Thuan Provinces, where most of Vietnam's Cham descendants live today). By then, a Cham diaspora had spread to Cambodia, Hainan, the Philippines and Malaysia.*

*In 1832, Emperor Minh Mang set out to crush the last vestiges of Cham autonomy and stamp out the culture, burning Cham villages and farmland and destroying ancient temples. Many Cham fled to Cambodia, where their descendants number in the hundreds of thousands today.*

*A Rich but Beleaguered Culture*

*Physical evidence of Cham culture in Vietnam is disappearing. In Binh Thuan Province and elsewhere, Cham temple sites and ancient tombs have been overrun by paddies, dragonfruit plantations, and shrimp farms. In Quang Ngai Province, temple sites have been damaged or destroyed by gravel quarrying.*

*The Vietnamese continue to build Buddhist temples atop the ruins of Cham religious sites and to use bricks from Cham citadels to build their houses.*

*Hill tribes relocated from the far north of Vietnam now live in Champa's last capital, Song Luy, brought down during Minh Mang's purge. There's no mention of Song Luy in Vietnamese history books, and it's ignored in official tourism materials, despite its proximity to the country's largest resort, in Mui Ne.*

*Hoi An is Vietnam's best known ancient port town. Popular histories and today's tourist brochures, however, neglect to mention its centuries-old Cham roots.*

*The Cham are renowned for their textiles, handwoven on looms. Their fabrics are exported (and often imitated), then passed off as local goods and sold in tourist markets by local tribes in cities like Louangphabang (Laos), Siem Reap (Cambodia), Chiang Mai (Thailand), and, closer to home in Vietnam, Sa Pa.*

*After the Vietnamese conquered Cham kingdoms, they routinely co-opted their musicians, whose style had a significant influence on early Vietnamese court music. Today every major resort or restaurant seems to have Cham musicians on staff (although only two families remain who make the traditional Cham instruments—a wooden drum and a small, clarinet-like woodwind instrument).*

*The Cham are one of the few ethnic minorities in Indochina to have developed their own writing system, based on Sanskrit. Very few Cham can still read and write their native language, and the spoken language is at risk of eradication too, because government policy requires the use of Vietnamese in schools, commerce, and public activities.*

*Cham living conditions are generally inferior to those in ethnic Vietnamese (Kinh) villages. Mud houses with crumbling walls are common, and most Cham don't have running water, let alone refrigeration. Electricity is intermittent.*

*The Vietnamese government no longer allows Cham dead to lie in state in family homes for several weeks before burial. Some Cham practice "second burial," which involves exhuming the remains on the anniversary of a person's death and holding a feast for friends, family, and neighbors with prayers, loud music, and religious rites.*

*5*

*Political Sensitivities*

*Given how clear and long-standing the evidence of Cham influence over the South China Sea is, why doesn't Vietnam now use the authority of Champa history to bolster its territorial claims in the region?*

*Relations between the Hanoi government and ethnic minorities are sensitive. In 2001 and 2004 massive human rights protests by hill tribes resulted in deaths and mass imprisonments. For some time after that, the Central Highlands were sealed off to foreigners.*

*Sporadic protests and riots on a smaller scale still occur, and accusations of human rights violations by the government are common in minority areas.*

*Although they're full Vietnamese citizens, the Cham are nonetheless a conquered people. If they themselves raise the issue of Champa's historical sovereignty over the South China Sea, which in turn would raise questions about their lost autonomy in their ancestral land, this could upset the Vietnamese government.*

*Neither the Cham nor the Vietnamese government want to unsettle the current balance.*

*Adam Bray has contributed to nearly 40 books on travel in Southeast Asia. He is a former resident of Phan Thiet, Vietnam, where he studied Cham culture and history and learned to read and write modern Cham. He has located and explored many undocumented Cham ruins.*

Interesting article about Cham:

*The ancestors of Vietnam's Cham people built one of the great empires of Southeast Asia.*

*Tensions in the South China Sea reignited last month, when China deployed a government-owned oil drilling rig in an area also claimed by Vietnam just south of the Paracel Islands.*

*Anti-China protesters broke into and torched Chinese, Taiwanese, and South Korean factories in southern Vietnam. According to media reports, as many as 21 people died in the chaos, and more than a hundred were injured. Thousands of Chinese workers fled the country.*

*Under dispute are the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos, which are mostly uninhabited, and a central region of the South China Sea, which is home to overlapping claims by China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines.*

*2*

*But the dispute between Vietnam and China is grabbing the most attention. Both have referred to historical ties with the islands, in China's case dating to the Han Dynasty (206 B.C. to A.D. 220), to support their claims in the region.*

*Meanwhile, in Vietnam the roughly 160,000 members of the Cham ethnic minority, whose forebears dominated the South China Sea for more than a millennium, are quietly on the sidelines of the escalating conflict.*

*Two centuries after their then-diminished dominion ended violently at the hands of Vietnamese Emperor Minh Mang, the Cham remain wary of engaging in such disputes, the current version of which is a reminder of the symbolic and economic importance of the South China Sea and of the Cham culture that once was enriched by trade across it.*

*Kingdoms of Champa*

*For centuries the South China Sea was known by navigators throughout Asia as the Champa Sea, named for a great empire that controlled all of central Vietnam, from the northern border of today's Quang Binh Province to roughly the southern border of Binh Thuan Province.*

*At the peak of the Champa empire, from around the 6th to the 15th centuries, its various kingdoms, presided over by regional royal families, also included sizable portions of eastern Cambodia and Laos.*





*The oldest artifacts of a distinctly Cham civilization—brick flooring, sandstone pillars, and pottery found at Tra Kieu in Quang Nam Province—date to the second century A.D.*

*A notable Champa legacy is the red-brick temples, or Cham towers, the oldest found dating to the seventh and eighth centuries. The temple city of My Son, near Hoi An, preserved as a UNESCO World Heritage site, has nearly 70 individual structures.*

*Archaeologists have identified several Cham citadels and some 25 temple sites (each with varying numbers of towers) still standing along Vietnam's coast. Recent explorations suggest that hundreds of ruined sites may line rivers leading into the Central Highlands and beyond to eastern Cambodia and Laos.*

*Deep Roots*

*Malayo-Polynesian-speaking ancestors of the Cham are thought to have arrived in Vietnam by sea from Borneo. Most scholars believe the Cham are descendants of the Sa Huynh, who occupied the same area from roughly 1000 B.C. to the second century A.D., when the Cham culture began flowering.*

*Sa Huynh relics have been found as far away as Taiwan, the Philippines, and Malaysia, indicating that the people sailed, traded, and settled around what was then the Champa Sea.*

*The Sa Huynh adorned their dead with agate, carnelian, and glass beads from India and Iran, as well as rare gold and glass beads from the Mediterranean—all likely traded by sea—and entombed the bodies in large clay jars.*

*Ornate burial earrings included a style consisting of a hanging bar with a horned animal head on either end. The earrings were often made of glass, gemstones, or jade from Taiwan.*

*Recent excavations uncovered evidence of Sa Huynh burial sites (and Cham relics) not only on the Vietnamese mainland and offshore islands such as Phu Quy, but also on the islands of Namyit and Spratly—ground zero of today's contested area.*

*Champa's Reach*

*The Cham had a vast trade network, with routes extending northeast to China, Taiwan, and Japan and south to Malaysia and Indonesia.*

*Their wealth—gold and silver, gems, spices, aromatic agarwood, exotic animals, and slaves—was renowned all the way to India, the Middle East, and even the farthest reaches of North Africa.*

*During Champa's golden age, a Muslim geographer wrote that the islands "produced ivory, camphor, nutmeg, mace, cloves, agarwood, cardamom, cubeb, and other substances."*

*Several shipwrecks are evidence of trade between Champa and the Philippines via the Spratly Islands. One vessel—the Pandanan wreck, found off the Philippine island of Palawan—is believed to have left the Champa coast sometime between 1450 and 1470, carrying green-glazed ceramics made in the Cham kingdom of Vijaya.*

*In 1997 Philippine authorities salvaged a centuries-old vessel off Thitu Island in the Spratlys containing about a thousand granite carvings that appear to have been taken from unknown Champa sites.*

*Many of the habitable islands in the western part of the ancient Champa Sea held Cham communities. Cham temple ruins, pottery, jewelry, and bricks have been found on Phu Quy, for instance. People in the area today, although considered ethnic Vietnamese, speak a dialect unlike that of mainlanders, and their crafts and culture are more similar to those of the Cham than the Vietnamese.*

*Farther north, the islands of Ly Son and Cham were also major Cham satellites.*

*4*



*A Mix of Faiths*

*The Cham took up Hinduism early, likely converted by Indian merchants, and blended it with their traditional beliefs. Hindu Cham are called Balamon.*

*Before the end of the first millennium, Muslim traders introduced Islam, and Muslim Cham became known as Bani.*

*As early as 986, Chinese records refer to communities on the island of Hainan that were made up of Cham Muslims, whose descendants today are Utsuls.*

*In addition to their respective Muslim and Hindu practices, Balamon and Bani both worship ancestors, kings, and Cham deities. Bani, and some Balamon, observe a variation of Ramadan called Ramawan.*

*Ravages of War*

*The Champa empire was the chief rival of the Khmer Empire, in Cambodia, and Dai Viet, an early Vietnamese kingdom to the north. Champa's conflicts with Dai Viet seem to have started at the end of the tenth century, as the Vietnamese pushed south to the Cham kingdom of Vijaya (today's Quy Nhon).*

*Bas reliefs in a temple at Angkor depict an epic naval battle between the Khmer and Champa in the 12th century. The Cham navy was unrivaled, but on land the Cham suffered many costly defeats.*

*Territorial wrangling continued until 1471, when Vijaya was finally captured, and by the mid-1600s the Champa empire had been reduced to its southern kingdom of Panduranga (now Ninh Thuan and Binh Thuan Provinces, where most of Vietnam's Cham descendants live today). By then, a Cham diaspora had spread to Cambodia, Hainan, the Philippines and Malaysia.*

*In 1832, Emperor Minh Mang set out to crush the last vestiges of Cham autonomy and stamp out the culture, burning Cham villages and farmland and destroying ancient temples. Many Cham fled to Cambodia, where their descendants number in the hundreds of thousands today.*

*A Rich but Beleaguered Culture*

*Physical evidence of Cham culture in Vietnam is disappearing. In Binh Thuan Province and elsewhere, Cham temple sites and ancient tombs have been overrun by paddies, dragonfruit plantations, and shrimp farms. In Quang Ngai Province, temple sites have been damaged or destroyed by gravel quarrying.*

*The Vietnamese continue to build Buddhist temples atop the ruins of Cham religious sites and to use bricks from Cham citadels to build their houses.*

*Hill tribes relocated from the far north of Vietnam now live in Champa's last capital, Song Luy, brought down during Minh Mang's purge. There's no mention of Song Luy in Vietnamese history books, and it's ignored in official tourism materials, despite its proximity to the country's largest resort, in Mui Ne.*

*Hoi An is Vietnam's best known ancient port town. Popular histories and today's tourist brochures, however, neglect to mention its centuries-old Cham roots.*

*The Cham are renowned for their textiles, handwoven on looms. Their fabrics are exported (and often imitated), then passed off as local goods and sold in tourist markets by local tribes in cities like Louangphabang (Laos), Siem Reap (Cambodia), Chiang Mai (Thailand), and, closer to home in Vietnam, Sa Pa.*

*After the Vietnamese conquered Cham kingdoms, they routinely co-opted their musicians, whose style had a significant influence on early Vietnamese court music. Today every major resort or restaurant seems to have Cham musicians on staff (although only two families remain who make the traditional Cham instruments—a wooden drum and a small, clarinet-like woodwind instrument).*

*The Cham are one of the few ethnic minorities in Indochina to have developed their own writing system, based on Sanskrit. Very few Cham can still read and write their native language, and the spoken language is at risk of eradication too, because government policy requires the use of Vietnamese in schools, commerce, and public activities.*

*Cham living conditions are generally inferior to those in ethnic Vietnamese (Kinh) villages. Mud houses with crumbling walls are common, and most Cham don't have running water, let alone refrigeration. Electricity is intermittent.*

*The Vietnamese government no longer allows Cham dead to lie in state in family homes for several weeks before burial. Some Cham practice "second burial," which involves exhuming the remains on the anniversary of a person's death and holding a feast for friends, family, and neighbors with prayers, loud music, and religious rites.*

*5*

*Political Sensitivities*

*Given how clear and long-standing the evidence of Cham influence over the South China Sea is, why doesn't Vietnam now use the authority of Champa history to bolster its territorial claims in the region?*

*Relations between the Hanoi government and ethnic minorities are sensitive. In 2001 and 2004 massive human rights protests by hill tribes resulted in deaths and mass imprisonments. For some time after that, the Central Highlands were sealed off to foreigners.*

*Sporadic protests and riots on a smaller scale still occur, and accusations of human rights violations by the government are common in minority areas.*

*Although they're full Vietnamese citizens, the Cham are nonetheless a conquered people. If they themselves raise the issue of Champa's historical sovereignty over the South China Sea, which in turn would raise questions about their lost autonomy in their ancestral land, this could upset the Vietnamese government.*

*Neither the Cham nor the Vietnamese government want to unsettle the current balance.*

*Adam Bray has contributed to nearly 40 books on travel in Southeast Asia. He is a former resident of Phan Thiet, Vietnam, where he studied Cham culture and history and learned to read and write modern Cham. He has located and explored many undocumented Cham ruins.*

Interesting article about Cham:

*The ancestors of Vietnam's Cham people built one of the great empires of Southeast Asia.*

*Tensions in the South China Sea reignited last month, when China deployed a government-owned oil drilling rig in an area also claimed by Vietnam just south of the Paracel Islands.*

*Anti-China protesters broke into and torched Chinese, Taiwanese, and South Korean factories in southern Vietnam. According to media reports, as many as 21 people died in the chaos, and more than a hundred were injured. Thousands of Chinese workers fled the country.*

*Under dispute are the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos, which are mostly uninhabited, and a central region of the South China Sea, which is home to overlapping claims by China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines.*

*2*

*But the dispute between Vietnam and China is grabbing the most attention. Both have referred to historical ties with the islands, in China's case dating to the Han Dynasty (206 B.C. to A.D. 220), to support their claims in the region.*

*Meanwhile, in Vietnam the roughly 160,000 members of the Cham ethnic minority, whose forebears dominated the South China Sea for more than a millennium, are quietly on the sidelines of the escalating conflict.*

*Two centuries after their then-diminished dominion ended violently at the hands of Vietnamese Emperor Minh Mang, the Cham remain wary of engaging in such disputes, the current version of which is a reminder of the symbolic and economic importance of the South China Sea and of the Cham culture that once was enriched by trade across it.*

*Kingdoms of Champa*

*For centuries the South China Sea was known by navigators throughout Asia as the Champa Sea, named for a great empire that controlled all of central Vietnam, from the northern border of today's Quang Binh Province to roughly the southern border of Binh Thuan Province.*

*At the peak of the Champa empire, from around the 6th to the 15th centuries, its various kingdoms, presided over by regional royal families, also included sizable portions of eastern Cambodia and Laos.*





*The oldest artifacts of a distinctly Cham civilization—brick flooring, sandstone pillars, and pottery found at Tra Kieu in Quang Nam Province—date to the second century A.D.*

*A notable Champa legacy is the red-brick temples, or Cham towers, the oldest found dating to the seventh and eighth centuries. The temple city of My Son, near Hoi An, preserved as a UNESCO World Heritage site, has nearly 70 individual structures.*

*Archaeologists have identified several Cham citadels and some 25 temple sites (each with varying numbers of towers) still standing along Vietnam's coast. Recent explorations suggest that hundreds of ruined sites may line rivers leading into the Central Highlands and beyond to eastern Cambodia and Laos.*

*Deep Roots*

*Malayo-Polynesian-speaking ancestors of the Cham are thought to have arrived in Vietnam by sea from Borneo. Most scholars believe the Cham are descendants of the Sa Huynh, who occupied the same area from roughly 1000 B.C. to the second century A.D., when the Cham culture began flowering.*

*Sa Huynh relics have been found as far away as Taiwan, the Philippines, and Malaysia, indicating that the people sailed, traded, and settled around what was then the Champa Sea.*

*The Sa Huynh adorned their dead with agate, carnelian, and glass beads from India and Iran, as well as rare gold and glass beads from the Mediterranean—all likely traded by sea—and entombed the bodies in large clay jars.*

*Ornate burial earrings included a style consisting of a hanging bar with a horned animal head on either end. The earrings were often made of glass, gemstones, or jade from Taiwan.*

*Recent excavations uncovered evidence of Sa Huynh burial sites (and Cham relics) not only on the Vietnamese mainland and offshore islands such as Phu Quy, but also on the islands of Namyit and Spratly—ground zero of today's contested area.*

*Champa's Reach*

*The Cham had a vast trade network, with routes extending northeast to China, Taiwan, and Japan and south to Malaysia and Indonesia.*

*Their wealth—gold and silver, gems, spices, aromatic agarwood, exotic animals, and slaves—was renowned all the way to India, the Middle East, and even the farthest reaches of North Africa.*

*During Champa's golden age, a Muslim geographer wrote that the islands "produced ivory, camphor, nutmeg, mace, cloves, agarwood, cardamom, cubeb, and other substances."*

*Several shipwrecks are evidence of trade between Champa and the Philippines via the Spratly Islands. One vessel—the Pandanan wreck, found off the Philippine island of Palawan—is believed to have left the Champa coast sometime between 1450 and 1470, carrying green-glazed ceramics made in the Cham kingdom of Vijaya.*

*In 1997 Philippine authorities salvaged a centuries-old vessel off Thitu Island in the Spratlys containing about a thousand granite carvings that appear to have been taken from unknown Champa sites.*

*Many of the habitable islands in the western part of the ancient Champa Sea held Cham communities. Cham temple ruins, pottery, jewelry, and bricks have been found on Phu Quy, for instance. People in the area today, although considered ethnic Vietnamese, speak a dialect unlike that of mainlanders, and their crafts and culture are more similar to those of the Cham than the Vietnamese.*

*Farther north, the islands of Ly Son and Cham were also major Cham satellites.*

*4*



*A Mix of Faiths*

*The Cham took up Hinduism early, likely converted by Indian merchants, and blended it with their traditional beliefs. Hindu Cham are called Balamon.*

*Before the end of the first millennium, Muslim traders introduced Islam, and Muslim Cham became known as Bani.*

*As early as 986, Chinese records refer to communities on the island of Hainan that were made up of Cham Muslims, whose descendants today are Utsuls.*

*In addition to their respective Muslim and Hindu practices, Balamon and Bani both worship ancestors, kings, and Cham deities. Bani, and some Balamon, observe a variation of Ramadan called Ramawan.*

*Ravages of War*

*The Champa empire was the chief rival of the Khmer Empire, in Cambodia, and Dai Viet, an early Vietnamese kingdom to the north. Champa's conflicts with Dai Viet seem to have started at the end of the tenth century, as the Vietnamese pushed south to the Cham kingdom of Vijaya (today's Quy Nhon).*

*Bas reliefs in a temple at Angkor depict an epic naval battle between the Khmer and Champa in the 12th century. The Cham navy was unrivaled, but on land the Cham suffered many costly defeats.*

*Territorial wrangling continued until 1471, when Vijaya was finally captured, and by the mid-1600s the Champa empire had been reduced to its southern kingdom of Panduranga (now Ninh Thuan and Binh Thuan Provinces, where most of Vietnam's Cham descendants live today). By then, a Cham diaspora had spread to Cambodia, Hainan, the Philippines and Malaysia.*

*In 1832, Emperor Minh Mang set out to crush the last vestiges of Cham autonomy and stamp out the culture, burning Cham villages and farmland and destroying ancient temples. Many Cham fled to Cambodia, where their descendants number in the hundreds of thousands today.*

*A Rich but Beleaguered Culture*

*Physical evidence of Cham culture in Vietnam is disappearing. In Binh Thuan Province and elsewhere, Cham temple sites and ancient tombs have been overrun by paddies, dragonfruit plantations, and shrimp farms. In Quang Ngai Province, temple sites have been damaged or destroyed by gravel quarrying.*

*The Vietnamese continue to build Buddhist temples atop the ruins of Cham religious sites and to use bricks from Cham citadels to build their houses.*

*Hill tribes relocated from the far north of Vietnam now live in Champa's last capital, Song Luy, brought down during Minh Mang's purge. There's no mention of Song Luy in Vietnamese history books, and it's ignored in official tourism materials, despite its proximity to the country's largest resort, in Mui Ne.*

*Hoi An is Vietnam's best known ancient port town. Popular histories and today's tourist brochures, however, neglect to mention its centuries-old Cham roots.*

*The Cham are renowned for their textiles, handwoven on looms. Their fabrics are exported (and often imitated), then passed off as local goods and sold in tourist markets by local tribes in cities like Louangphabang (Laos), Siem Reap (Cambodia), Chiang Mai (Thailand), and, closer to home in Vietnam, Sa Pa.*

*After the Vietnamese conquered Cham kingdoms, they routinely co-opted their musicians, whose style had a significant influence on early Vietnamese court music. Today every major resort or restaurant seems to have Cham musicians on staff (although only two families remain who make the traditional Cham instruments—a wooden drum and a small, clarinet-like woodwind instrument).*

*The Cham are one of the few ethnic minorities in Indochina to have developed their own writing system, based on Sanskrit. Very few Cham can still read and write their native language, and the spoken language is at risk of eradication too, because government policy requires the use of Vietnamese in schools, commerce, and public activities.*

*Cham living conditions are generally inferior to those in ethnic Vietnamese (Kinh) villages. Mud houses with crumbling walls are common, and most Cham don't have running water, let alone refrigeration. Electricity is intermittent.*

*The Vietnamese government no longer allows Cham dead to lie in state in family homes for several weeks before burial. Some Cham practice "second burial," which involves exhuming the remains on the anniversary of a person's death and holding a feast for friends, family, and neighbors with prayers, loud music, and religious rites.*

*5*

*Political Sensitivities*

*Given how clear and long-standing the evidence of Cham influence over the South China Sea is, why doesn't Vietnam now use the authority of Champa history to bolster its territorial claims in the region?*

*Relations between the Hanoi government and ethnic minorities are sensitive. In 2001 and 2004 massive human rights protests by hill tribes resulted in deaths and mass imprisonments. For some time after that, the Central Highlands were sealed off to foreigners.*

*Sporadic protests and riots on a smaller scale still occur, and accusations of human rights violations by the government are common in minority areas.*

*Although they're full Vietnamese citizens, the Cham are nonetheless a conquered people. If they themselves raise the issue of Champa's historical sovereignty over the South China Sea, which in turn would raise questions about their lost autonomy in their ancestral land, this could upset the Vietnamese government.*

*Neither the Cham nor the Vietnamese government want to unsettle the current balance.*

*Adam Bray has contributed to nearly 40 books on travel in Southeast Asia. He is a former resident of Phan Thiet, Vietnam, where he studied Cham culture and history and learned to read and write modern Cham. He has located and explored many undocumented Cham ruins.*


----------



## Aqsuperman

R-27 (or AA-10 Alamo) air-to-air missile , primary short range weapon of the Sukhoi fleet , long or medium range engagement will be taken care by R-77 or R-73


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## Viet

Zelenodolsk shipyard: two Gepard light frigates (#3 and #4) under construction, 62% and 48% completed respectively. here already seen equipped by AK-176M ship gun. as next, Palma combined gun/missile aerial defence system. Propulsion planned to be installed by September. both ships expected handing over to the Navy in 2017 and 2018.

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## Aqsuperman

Talking about those Gepard , i kind of worry that the Ukranian-made engine will delay the delivering


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Talking about those Gepard , i kind of worry that the Ukranian-made engine will delay the delivering


well, actually the delay is there. delivery was scheduled for 2016 and 2017. now one year delay because of the war in the ukraine. some media say the russian shipyard now buys the propulsion from Germany instead.


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## Viet

Talking about the possibility of buying Jet fighters from western countries, as Reuters reports recently, which is the best candidate for the Airforce?

I think we can´t rule out EF2000 or Typhoon. too expensive, delivery issues, many technical flaws, last but not least limited combat roles. Also, french Rafael is an unsuitable candidate: combat proved but the price is out of reach. Egypt orders 2 squadrons (24 jets) for unbelievable $5.9 billion. weapons, training and other necessary stuffs add another $3 billion. crazy.

Egypt Is Buying 24 Rafale Fighter Jets From France

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## Viet

a broken-down with failed engine Su-27SK coding number 6500 under repair by factory A32.


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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> Talking about the possibility of buying Jet fighters from western countries, as Reuters reports recently, which is the best candidate for the Airforce?
> 
> I think we can´t rule out EF2000 or Typhoon. too expensive, delivery issues, many technical flaws, last but not least limited combat roles. French Rafael is an unsuitable candidate: combat proved but the price is out of reach. Egypt orders 2 squadrons (24 jets) for unbelievable $5.9 billion. weapons, training and other necessary stuffs add another $3 billion. crazy.
> 
> Egypt Is Buying 24 Rafale Fighter Jets From France


I think VN would want to buy F-16 fighter.


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## Aqsuperman

F-16 is nice but still only the latest Block 50+ would prove combat effective , the older model wont do any good to the current strengh of VPAF . Indonesia airforce have about 10 F-16 Block 15 and 8 Block 32 , all need urgent upgrades to stay competitive , so unless we can afford to buy the Block 50+ (which i highly doubt that US will sell us at this stage) , we shouldnt buy any F-16

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## IR-TR

You guys are nuts. F-16? Rafale? Eurofighter? All you need is for sale in Russia. Su-27-30-35. Much more effective for air superiority and much more price-effective. I understand the wish to diversify suppliers, but right now Vietnam can't afford 100 million dollar jets. Get a batch of nice Sukhois and call it a day.

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## Viet

I think F-16, Rafael and Eurofighter are not the way to go for our airforce. either too expensive or unsuitable. more Su-30 or possibly later Su-35 are ok. since the airforce is looking for alternatives, how about his plane, a lowcost almost stealth multirole fighter?

*Gripen JAS 39E Next Generation (NG)
*

single seat, empty weight, less than 14,000 lb.
Internal fuel, greater than 7,400 lb.
Max takeoff weight, 36,400 lb.
Engine GE F414-GE-39E, Radar AESA
flyaway price of $43 Million
max speed Mach 2, supercruise Mach 1.25 without using afterburner
improvement against JAS 39Cs with new engine, avionics and primary structure
not a classically stealthy aircraft, but significantly lower radar cross-section (RCS)
operating cost of $7,500 per hour, including fuel


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## Viet

June 20. General Phung Quang Thanh on a visit to Paris, meeting French Minister of Defence Jean-Yves Le Drian. no info about the topics being discussed. maybe announced later.


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## Aqsuperman

105mm M101 on a Ural 375 truck , used to be a test sample but recently a mass conversion is in progress , equipped with hydralic lift make the plafform very steady during fire , still look like its can only fire foward or backward , cant fire to either side because it may tip over due to the low weight  a clip about them

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## NiceGuy

IR-TR said:


> You guys are nuts. F-16? Rafale? Eurofighter? All you need is for sale in Russia. Su-27-30-35. Much more effective for air superiority and much more price-effective. I understand the wish to diversify suppliers, but right now Vietnam can't afford 100 million dollar jets. Get a batch of nice Sukhois and call it a day.


We will get rich soon when the TPP come to reality coz we can sell lots of our agricultures-fishing-wooden made products

Thats why many Western arm companies r offering VN to buy their fighters now


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## IR-TR

NiceGuy said:


> We will get rich soon when the TPP come to reality coz we can sell lots of our agricultures-fishing-wooden made products
> 
> Thats why many Western arm companies r offering VN to buy their fighters now



Yeah, sellig pho to the US won't make you rich. You need Chinese investments. Anyway, aside from that. If a su-30 is better AND cheaper, why purchase a f-16 or a eurofighter?


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## NiceGuy

IR-TR said:


> Yeah, sellig pho to the US won't make you rich. You need Chinese investments. Anyway, aside from that. If a su-30 is better AND cheaper, why purchase a f-16 or a eurofighter?


Dude, US has just allowed VN to export our fruit like Litchi and it make our farmers receive lots of money. So, its not hard for Vn to own some Western fighers now.

Bcz China also buy lots of Russia fighters, so its hard to beat them by the same Russia fighters, thats why we need some fighters from the West to take the Air superiority to PLAF .


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> 105mm M101 on a Ural 375 truck , used to be a test sample but recently a* mass conversion is in progress* , equipped with hydralic lift make the plafform very steady during fire , still look like its can only fire foward or backward , cant fire to either side because it may tip over due to the low weight  a clip about them


mass conversion will be a good news as the army has some 1,000 such 105mm artillery guns, right? most of them are towed by trucks. modern warfare is all about speed.


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## IR-TR

NiceGuy said:


> Dude, US has just allowed VN to export our fruit like Litchi and it make our farmers receive lots of money. So, its not hard for Vn to own some Western fighers now.
> 
> Bcz China also buy lots of Russia fighters, so its hard to beat them by the same Russia fighters, thats why we need some fighters from the West to take the Air superiority to PLAF .



Listen, who is the bigger market potentially? The US millions of miles away with a population of 300 million, or your neighbour China with 1.3 bilion people? Let's say they all eat one lichi, just to make the calculation easy. At the end, even with the PAK-FA, you can't beat China. It's sheer numbers. Same with the reast of East and South East Asia. So why start an unwinnable arms race? Just cooperate and trade..


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## NiceGuy

IR-TR said:


> Listen, who is the bigger market potentially? The US millions of miles away with a population of 300 million, or your neighbour China with 1.3 bilion people? Let's say they all eat one lichi, just to make the calculation easy. At the end, even with the PAK-FA, you can't beat China. It's sheer numbers. Same with the reast of East and South East Asia. So why start an unwinnable arms race? Just cooperate and trade..


R u a CNese in Holland ??? U should know that VN dont like CN, CN has been the bad trader-partner to VN since thousand year ago.In 1979 CN colluded wt US to attack VN, now CN should taste its own medicine when we shake hand wt US to bring them down .

We know what is the best solution for VN.


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## IR-TR

NiceGuy said:


> R u a CNese in Holland ??? U should know that VN dont like CN, CN has been the bad trader-partner to VN since thousand year ago.In 1979 CN colluded wt US to attack VN, now CN should taste its own medicine when we shake hand wt US to bring them down .
> 
> We know what is the best solution for VN.



I'm not Chinese and I'm objective. Bring China down? Okay, there goes your credibility. Anyway, all the best to Vietnam's economy!


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## NiceGuy

IR-TR said:


> I'm not Chinese and I'm objective. Bring China down? Okay, there goes your credibility. Anyway, all the best to Vietnam's economy!


Oki, thanks. Btw: pls read the history between VN-CN, u will see we attacked each other many times. Dont just think the bigger will be the stronger.


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## IR-TR

NiceGuy said:


> Oki, thanks. Btw: pls read the history between VN-CN, u will see we attacked each other many times. Dont just think the bigger will be the stronger.



I was/am on Vietnam's side when it comes to the 1979 war. I always respected how Vietnam stepped in to oust that crack pot Pol Pot. I also believe any lands that were ceded to China should be given back (except the reefs), as a token of friendship. Aside from that though, any objective person realizes that Vietnam's future lays with strong ties with China. Sure, no need to become a vassal state, but it's just sheer numbers and geography to have good ties with China. Same goes for Korea and Japan.


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## NiceGuy

IR-TR said:


> I was/am on Vietnam's side when it comes to the 1979 war. I always respected how Vietnam stepped in to oust that crack pot Pol Pot. I also believe any lands that were ceded to China should be given back (except the reefs), as a token of friendship. Aside from that though, any objective person realizes that Vietnam's future lays with strong ties with China. Sure, no need to become a vassal state, but it's just sheer numbers and geography to have good ties with China. Same goes for Korea and Japan.


If we can unify the sub-Mekong region to become stronger & bigger, then maybe we will need a strong ties wt CN , but we still have a chance to unify this region (Laos-Camb's military & riot police forces r under our control since 1979), so we dont need a strong ties wt CN now.


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## Aqsuperman

2S1 122mm SPA , with the 2S3 152mm and soon a good number of 105mm SPA Ural truck will form a mobile fire suppport for large scale operation , base on some source VN currently have about 100-150 of 2S1 and 30 2S3


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## tangthietgiap

Viet said:


> I like this toast below that reflects many things, so I would like to begin with it:
> 
> 
> _*"We are a school. We here are teachers, and students, and researchers. Many of us are in uniform with obligations to our defense and security establishments, but in the end we are a school with everything that entails&[HASHTAG]#8212[/HASHTAG];libraries, homework, computers, research, publications, and end-of-term grades. . . . We have this common understanding of the central importance of continuous learning, and that is what we should take as the central motivating force in our institutional relationship."*_
> 
> &[HASHTAG]#8212[/HASHTAG];Toast in honor of Vietnamese National Defense Academy Commandant General Vo Tien Trung offered by NDU President Vice Admiral Ann E. Rondeau, October 2011, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, DC.





Viet said:


> I like this toast below that reflects many things, so I would like to begin with it:
> 
> 
> _*"We are a school. We here are teachers, and students, and researchers. Many of us are in uniform with obligations to our defense and security establishments, but in the end we are a school with everything that entails&[HASHTAG]#8212[/HASHTAG];libraries, homework, computers, research, publications, and end-of-term grades. . . . We have this common understanding of the central importance of continuous learning, and that is what we should take as the central motivating force in our institutional relationship."*_
> 
> &[HASHTAG]#8212[/HASHTAG];Toast in honor of Vietnamese National Defense Academy Commandant General Vo Tien Trung offered by NDU President Vice Admiral Ann E. Rondeau, October 2011, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, DC.





Aqsuperman said:


> 2S1 122mm SPA , with the 2S3 152mm and soon a good number of 105mm SPA Ural truck will form a mobile fire suppport for large scale operation , base on some source VN currently have about 100-150 of 2S1 and 30 2S3





Viet said:


> *President Truong Tan Sang urges military academy to study modern warfare*
> _By : Ban Bien Tap on September 18, 2012_
> 
> *President Truong Tan Sang asked the National Defence Academy to study deeply the global military science, especially modern and hi-tech warfare issues to advise the Party, State and the army and serve its training.*
> 
> He made the request when speaking at a ceremony to start the new academic year at the Academy in Hanoi on September 17.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _picture: VN President Truong Tan Sang_
> 
> While congratulating the academy&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s staff and soldier and officer students on their new school year, President Sang also praised the academy for helping thousands of senior officials of the Party and State further improve their knowledge of defence and security matters.
> 
> The President underscored that successfully building and defending the Socialist Republic of Vietnam is the task and strategic goal of the country and the people.
> 
> Though peace, cooperation and development are the major trends in the world, there are still many complex changes, he noted, citing Southeast Asia as an example.
> 
> As a dynamically developing region, Southeast Asia is encountering factors that cause instability, especially sovereignty disputes in the East Sea between several regional countries, said the President.
> 
> He mentioned the hostile forces&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG]; acceleration of the &[HASHTAG]#8220[/HASHTAG];peaceful evolution&[HASHTAG]#8221[/HASHTAG]; strategy, riots, &[HASHTAG]#8220[/HASHTAG];self-evolution&[HASHTAG]#8221[/HASHTAG];, &[HASHTAG]#8220[/HASHTAG];self-transformation&[HASHTAG]#8221[/HASHTAG]; and their making use of the issues of democracy, human rights, nation and religion to sabotage national independence and socialism in Vietnam.
> 
> *Actions that violate the country&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s sovereignty, islands, and territorial integrity are also developing complicatedly, he emphasised.
> *
> The State leader said that as the country&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s and the army&[HASHTAG]#8217[/HASHTAG];s leading defence training and military science research centre, the Academy needs to further improve the quality of education and scientific research to produce regular, proficient and sharp-thinking officers for the country.
> 
> Sang also said he believes that the academy will continue to make more contributions to the national defence and construction in the future.
> 
> Source: VNA
> President Truong Tan Sang urges military academy to study modern warfare | Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung





IR-TR said:


> Listen, who is the bigger market potentially? The US millions of miles away with a population of 300 million, or your neighbour China with 1.3 bilion people? Let's say they all eat one lichi, just to make the calculation easy. At the end, even with the PAK-FA, you can't beat China. It's sheer numbers. Same with the reast of East and South East Asia. So why start an unwinnable arms race? Just cooperate and trade..






NiceGuy said:


> Oki, thanks. Btw: pls read the history between VN-CN, u will see we attacked each other many times. Dont just think the bigger will be the stronger.


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## Aqsuperman

uh.......Hi there , what is your point ? 
Anyway , I found this interesting picture while surfing , well its a picture of a picture :v a freaking Kh-31 anti-ship missile on a Sukhoi , hopefully a P or D variant , this combine with Kh-35 from Mol will create a nice missle vollley


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## Aqsuperman

Some weapons of Vietnamese Police


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## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Dude, US has just allowed VN to export our fruit like Litchi and it make our farmers receive lots of money. So, its not hard for Vn to own some Western fighers now.
> 
> Bcz China also buy lots of Russia fighters, so its hard to beat them by the same Russia fighters, thats why we need some fighters from the West to take the Air superiority to PLAF .



We don't buy the Russian fighters anymore.

Even you manage to acquire the F-22 from the US, you still cannot beat China.

This is about the modern systematic warfare which Vietnam practically got null on its own footing.

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## Aqsuperman

well surely you guys dont need the Su-35 anymore ? no more copying ? wow that a shocking new , what about those WS-10 jet engines of your ? is it in active service yet or still need the AL-31F to power the Shenyang fleet ? :v "VN cant beat China" ? ..................time to learn some history lesson again


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## Thao Nguyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We don't buy the Russian fighters anymore.
> 
> Even you manage to acquire the F-22 from the US, you still cannot beat China.
> 
> This is about the modern systematic warfare which Vietnam practically got null on its own footing.


Really or China still try to buy Su-35, and also steal technology from F-22 and F-35

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## Aqsuperman

A pair of Svetlyak Project 10412 gunboat , armed with a AK -176 , 2 KPV 14.5mm and 16 Igla for air-defence , the role of the TT-400TP is quite similar but much better armed in air-defence with a AK-630 so in the future these Svetlyak and all Osa misssile boat (relic that are above 40 years old) maybe transfer to the Coastguard to strenghthen the fleets , the patrol role with be taken care of by the first and second generation (rumour to be equipped with anti-ship missiles) of TT-400TP

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## tangthietgiap

In January 06, 2015, Vietnam Ministry of Defence host Senior Funneral of Major Genneral Hoàng Đăng Huệ
Mr Hoàng Đăng Huệ was born in 1932, in Hiệp Hòa District, Bắc Giang Province
Hoàng Đăng Huệ (1932 - 2015) is a high-ranking Soldier of Vietnam's People Tank and Armored. He held position of Major Genneral. He was one of young soldier serving Presidient Hồ Chí Minh
His real name is Hoàng Nguyên, born in 1932 in Hiệp Hòa District, Bắc Giang Province. Major Genneral Hoàng Đăng Huệ participated in the War of Resistance against French colonialism and American imperialism when he was 15 years old. In the Battle of Điện Biên Phủ, He was the superior of Phan Đình Giót ( a Hero of People's Armed Forces)
His last position was Commisar, Secrectary of Party Committee and Chairman of Housing and Land Board of Vietnam Tank and Armoured Army
Attendants consist of High-ranking Gennerals in Ministry of National Defence and Units under Ministry of National Defence including Lieutenant Đỗ Bá Tỵ, The Deputy Minister of National Defence, Chief of Vietnam Genneral Staff and other Gennerals such as Lieutenant Đoàn Sinh Hưởng - Commander of Military Region No4; Major Genneral Nguyễn Đức Cường - former Commisador of Vietnam Tank and Armored Army


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## Aqsuperman

The accepting ceremony for HQ-275 ( soon only the 275 remain , follown the recent change in name ) a TT-400TP class , in this angle we will see the AK-630 with six 30mm barrel for air-defence , an considerable improvement compare to the 10412 Project


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## ChineseTiger1986

Aqsuperman said:


> well surely you guys dont need the Su-35 anymore ? no more copying ? wow that a shocking new , what about those WS-10 jet engines of your ? is it in active service yet or still need the AL-31F to power the Shenyang fleet ? :v "VN cant beat China" ? ..................time to learn some history lesson again


 
WS-10 was active since 2005.

So what if some older aircrafts still power with AL-31F?



Thao Nguyen said:


> Really or China still try to buy Su-35, and also steal technology from F-22 and F-35


 
Who said that we need Su-35?

The Russian media doesn't count since they have the one side wish if we can buy their Su-35.

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## Viet

Aerial Defence over the SC Sea, southern front theater
improved* S125-2TM* Pechora medium range anti aircraft missile, with earling warning VHF radar P-18 range 250km.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Talking about the possibility of buying Jet fighters from western countries, as Reuters reports recently, which is the best candidate for the Airforce?
> 
> I think we can´t rule out EF2000 or Typhoon. too expensive, delivery issues, many technical flaws, last but not least limited combat roles. Also, french Rafael is an unsuitable candidate: combat proved but the price is out of reach. Egypt orders 2 squadrons (24 jets) for unbelievable $5.9 billion. weapons, training and other necessary stuffs add another $3 billion. crazy.
> 
> Egypt Is Buying 24 Rafale Fighter Jets From France



The Gripen is the best European option by far other than possibly second hand Typhoons (but not advisable since the Typhoons have way too many problems in my opinion).

The F-16 Block 52 (second hand) is the most cost effective option overall.



Aqsuperman said:


> F-16 is nice but still only the latest Block 50+ would prove combat effective , the older model wont do any good to the current strengh of VPAF . Indonesia airforce have about 10 F-16 Block 15 and 8 Block 32 , all need urgent upgrades to stay competitive , so unless we can afford to buy the Block 50+ (which i highly doubt that US will sell us at this stage) , we shouldnt buy any F-16



The Indonesian F-16s are being upgraded to block 52 and the newly bought second hand ones are already upgraded to block 52 also.



IR-TR said:


> You guys are nuts. F-16? Rafale? Eurofighter? All you need is for sale in Russia. Su-27-30-35. Much more effective for air superiority and much more price-effective. I understand the wish to diversify suppliers, but right now Vietnam can't afford 100 million dollar jets. Get a batch of nice Sukhois and call it a day.



That is true about the Sukhois, but the fact is that they are quite expensive to operate and maintain. The whole idea about buying a western aircraft is because Russia no longer produces single engine, light aircraft, so the second hand F-16 as Indonesia bought makes a lot of sense and after that, the Gripen.



Viet said:


> carlosa, I hope you come back soon from the ban.
> aqsuperman, it will nice if you continue posting in this thread. dito to other viet members.
> 
> I have little interest to be the lonely contributor. thinking to stop here. Otherwise.



Thank you bro, I'm back and ready for another fight. 



Aqsuperman said:


> UH-1 is one of few weapons still in active despite their root since ARVN time (the others are M113 APC , M101 howitzer and so on) , meaning parts and ammunitions are very very hard to come by after being expended in 1979 war in both front and more than 10 years of small scale skirmish , still recently , the fleet is coming back to regular servive with overhaul from Australia and parts from many third party dealer (US at this time wont sell VN any of these things) .Some picture of them .
> Unarmed and armed
> View attachment 229710
> View attachment 229711



Are you sure the US is not selling spare parts to VN? The UH-1 that crashed recently was upgraded in the US.



NiceGuy said:


> My God, old Scud missile , but still work well, US Patriot cant intercept . VN also possess thousand scud missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------
> 
> The Saudi Air Force Commander Lt. Gen. Muhammad bin Ahmed Al-Shaalan was killed in a Scud missile cross-border attack by Yemeni Houthi rebels on the big King Khalid Air Base at Khamis Mushayt in the southwestern Asir region of Saudi Arabia,DEBKAfile reports. The attack took place on June 6, but his death was concealed under a blanket of secrecy until Wednesday, June 10.
> 
> The largest Saudi air base, it is from there that the kingdom has for last two and a half months waged its air campaign to end the Yemeni insurgency. Saudi and coalition air strikes, directed against the Iranian-backed Houthi rebels, their allies from the Yemeni army and from local tribes, have killed an estimated 2,000 people, some of them civilians, including women and children.
> DEBKAfile’s military sources in the Gulf remarked that even the tardy official disclosure of Gen. Al-Shaalan’s death Wednesday left more questions than answers. The terse three-line announcement said: “The Commander of Saudi Royal Air Forces Lieutenant General Mohammed bin Ahmed Al-Shaalan died Wednesday during a working trip outside the kingdom from a heart attack.”
> No information was provided about the nature of his putative “working trip,” its destination and purpose - or even the date of his funeral.
> *Our military sources report that the Houthis’ Scud attack caught the Saudis unawares. The only reaction from the air base came from the American teams operating Patriot counter-missile batteries. They tried to shoot down the incoming missiles and managed to intercept only two or three out of a barrage of 15.
> The US has deployed Patriots at Khamis Mushayt to shield the special operations units and drones fighting Al Qaeda in Arabia (AQIP*). But since the start of the Yemen civil war, American drones have been feeding the Saudi Air Force with intelligence about Houthi targets and movements.
> Saudi air chief killed in Yemeni rebel Scud attack on Khamis Mushayt air base



This event clearly shows that the Patriot, which was a useless piece of crap during the Iraq war, continues to be quite bad even after repeated upgrades. That's why Japan wants AEGIS Ashore.

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## Aqsuperman

Kh-29 anti-ship missiles , togerther with Kh-31 and Kh-59 are the primary weapons to destroy enemy warship of the VPAF About 100 currently in service which most remain wingless until get ready for combat , the attaching process usually not take more than 10 mintutes

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## Thao Nguyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> WS-10 was active since 2005.
> 
> So what if some older aircrafts still power with AL-31F?
> 
> 
> 
> *Who said that we need Su-35?*
> 
> The Russian media doesn't count since they have the one side wish if we can buy their Su-35.


then we will see, may be china will purchase Su-35 just in 1 or 2 year, because China need AL-41 engine, WS-10 is a shit, because they need to maintenance just after 200 hours operation, some time may be 25 hours, meanwhile AL-31 is 2000 hours RD-93 is 500 hours
Sr Mod for offtopic, but i cannot withstand some Chinese trolling here

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## ChineseTiger1986

Thao Nguyen said:


> then we will see, may be china will purchase Su-35 just in 1 or 2 year, because China need AL-41 engine, WS-10 is a shit, because they need to maintenance just after 200 hours operation, some time may be 25 hours, meanwhile AL-31 is 2000 hours RD-93 is 500 hours
> Sr Mod for offtopic, but i cannot withstand some Chinese trolling here


 
Again no substantial proof, the first rumor went back to 2006-2008, and now it is about a decade later, nothing happened.

Strategic Simulation - Kommersant Moscow

And don't be jealous that your country is not smart enough to build the diamond of the industrialization like China did.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The Gripen is the best European option by far other than possibly second hand Typhoons (but not advisable since the Typhoons have way too many problems in my opinion).
> 
> The F-16 Block 52 (second hand) is the most cost effective option overall.
> 
> 
> 
> The Indonesian F-16s are being upgraded to block 52 and the newly bought second hand ones are already upgraded to block 52 also.
> 
> 
> 
> That is true about the Sukhois, but the fact is that they are quite expensive to operate and maintain. The whole idea about buying a western aircraft is because Russia no longer produces single engine, light aircraft, so the second hand F-16 as Indonesia bought makes a lot of sense and after that, the Gripen.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you bro, I'm back and ready for another fight.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure the US is not selling spare parts to VN? The UH-1 that crashed recently was upgraded in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> This event clearly shows that the Patriot, which was a useless piece of crap during the Iraq war, continues to be quite bad even after repeated upgrades. That's why Japan wants AEGIS Ashore.


welcome back.

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## Viet

Latest from the Sub 185 Đà Nẵng. it has arrived the Sea of Java, heading to the SC Sea.





Just few days left before arriving the Cam Ranh bay. here seen during a sea trail in the Baltic Sea.

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## Aqsuperman

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Again no substantial proof, the first rumor went back to 2006-2008, and now it is about a decade later, nothing happened.
> 
> Strategic Simulation - Kommersant Moscow
> 
> And don't be jealous that your country is not smart enough to build the diamond of the industrialization like China did.



well there are also no substantial proof that your WS-10 is in active service , all we see is that "266 engines were produced" , that it . The reliability was claimed to be low on a lot of sources (if it high and no longer require very frequent maintaince , do give a link that show it clearly ) The Y-20 transport aircraft prototypes so far still use the D-30KP-2 , no sight of WS-20 ( which is suppose to be from the development of WS-10) 

And yeah , sure your country industrialization went much faster than us and already achieve massive success ,..........but i prefer my country to follown a road of industrialization that the grandchildrens of my childrens can see the sun in broad daylight and breath a normal air , not some thick fog that give them lung cancer and eyes problems 

A M113 armed with M2 .50 cal and Browning .30 cal , which is weird because we should have switch them to DSHK and PKM long ago , must be a training unit to help troops to familiarize with it or maybe to use the remainh stock of ammunition ? :v


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## ChineseTiger1986

Aqsuperman said:


> well there are also no substantial proof that your WS-10 is in active service , all we see is that "266 engines were produced" , that it . The reliability was claimed to be low on a lot of sources (if it high and no longer require very frequent maintaince , do give a link that show it clearly ) The Y-20 transport aircraft prototypes so far still use the D-30KP-2 , no sight of WS-20 ( which is suppose to be from the development of WS-10)
> 
> And yeah , sure your country industrialization went much faster than us and already achieve massive success ,..........but i prefer my country to follown a road of industrialization that the grandchildrens of my childrens can see the sun in broad daylight and breath a normal air , not some thick fog that give them lung cancer and eyes problems



The Y-20 uses WS-18, a Chinese reverse engineering of D-30.

Even the WS-20 is derived from the WS-10, it cannot be that fast, since it is still under the testing stage.

This is a turbofan engine, not a motorcycle engine, all testing period is long and tedious.

Just look at the F-35, it was developed since 2006, but it hasn't been deployed yet.

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## Aqsuperman

2 ships of the K-122 class specialize in transport/support . the 561 is a hospital ship equipped with the best facilities to help both fisherman and troops alike in urgent situaition that cant reach the mainlaind in time


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## Viet

in the morning June 26th, in the city of Tuy Hoa , Phu Yen province , the Navy held a groundbreaking ceremony to build barracks for Missile Brigade 682. Not much info is revealed, but since Tuy Hoa is somewhat 100km to the Cam Ranh naval base, one can guess, the main task of the brigade is to protect the base against aerial attacks.







June 16th. according to the director of Almaz, Alexander Shlyakhtenko, the new Molniya warships can be equipped by Klub missiles. a much more dangerous version than the current Uran-E. one of the disadvantages if we do so is our Navy has to buy the missiles from Russia, while we can produce the Uran.

Klub-S is a nice toy, a very much deterrence against chinese adventurism. their warships, even the most advanced destroyers have reportely no effective means against Klub-S missiles, if fired by our Kilo subs.

a Molniya with 16 Uran missiles





a Kilo readying for patrol







Sputnik reports Vietnam purchases two of the most modern russian aerial defence systems: Buk and Tor. No info about how many units and delivery date.

*Buk-M2*
length 5,55 m, weight 715 kg, propulsion solid fuel rocket, range 50km, speed Mach 3.7, max service ceiling 25 km, guidance INS (datalink), target acquisition SARH or HOJ, warhead 50 kg splitter.











*Tor-M2*
fully automated anti aircraft system, very quick reaction time (7s), rocket speed Mach 2.8, ability to engage 4 targets simultaneously*, *target range 1-15 km, anti-jamming commands via radio guidance system, cruise speed range 500km. 15kg warhead. can head to targets flying at Mach 2.

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## Viet

New ergo shooter in store: *Rising Storm 2: Vietnam*

Ground combats in the jungle between the most powerful army in the world, the US Armed Forces against the most combat hardened _Guerilla_ Army: the Vietcong.

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## frequency

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We don't buy the Russian fighters anymore.
> 
> Even you manage to acquire the F-22 from the US, you still cannot beat China.
> 
> This is about the modern systematic warfare which Vietnam practically got null on its own footing.



It's silly to say your technology is the best. Your technology hasn't been proven in battlefields how can you say such a naive thing.


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## Aqsuperman

USAF C-17 on a VN airport runway , purpose ? Collecting US serviceman remain


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## Viet

Unlikely. The C-17 is too big for one or two bodies or what left over. I bet Uncle Sam has some toys for the army onboard.


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## Aqsuperman

nah they just do that because they can :v


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> nah they just do that because they can :v


If so then really a waste of resources.


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## Aqsuperman

http://static.thanhnien.com.vn/uploaded/2014/pictures201405/ngoc_thanh/1/mia-1.jpg?width=500
Good to be rich :v

On the side note , VN Fourth Kilo-class has reached Cam Ranh Naval base , Hello HQ-185 Da Nang
http://dantri4.vcmedia.vn/neZCvGHKLhKBlSt1J6nHI31TZa0YI/Image/2015/06/DSCF9471-0d58d.JPG


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## Aqsuperman

A KAB-500 bomb


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## Viet

The Military Institute of Explosives (under the General Department of Defense) recently announces it has successfully made fuel for cruise missiles: 9X195 rocket fuel. the fuel is suitable for anti aircraft missiles as well. since the article suggests Vietnam can one day produce Klub missile, the fuel must be a sort for solid fuel engine.


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## Aqsuperman

2 kings  .........The next 2 will come with better ASW weapons , lets hope that the delivery wont hit any more setback


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## ANMDT

Viet said:


> The Military Institute of Explosives (under the General Department of Defense) recently announces it has successfully made fuel for cruise missiles: 9X195 rocket fuel. the fuel is suitable for anti aircraft missiles as well. since the article suggests Vietnam can one day produce Klub missile, the fuel must be a sort for solid fuel engine.


So far i know , this rocket engine fuels already produced in Vietnam by supply of Russia in laboratories of University which holds military education on engineering . So now it becomes in mass production ?


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## Aqsuperman

cute , right ? Armed with 12.7mm and very fast


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## Viet

isoo said:


> So far i know , this rocket engine fuels already produced in Vietnam by supply of Russia in laboratories of University which holds military education on engineering . So now it becomes in mass production ?


well, it can be the case. the article says the Military Institute of Explosives makes the fuel with a quality comparable to foreign countries that we receive most of the fuel until yet. you maybe are right. a mass production can begin. the full article is here.
Thỏi nhiên liệu Việt Nam sản xuất dùng cho tên lửa nào? - DVO - Báo Đất Việt

it will be a step forward for our defence industry, provided we get the license, especially if we start to produce the Klub misisles for the Kilo. the #4 sub 185 Khanh Hoa has just arrived the home port: Cam ranh bay. waiting for unloading.







Aqsuperman said:


> cute , right ? Armed with 12.7mm and very fast


is it one of the US made boats? by the way, can you always post with full pictures? I find it more nicer. no need to click on it to enlarge.


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## Viva_Viet

Vietnam defense minister undergoes surgery on lung tumor in France

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 07/02/2015 09:30 GMT + 7








Vietnam's Minister of Defense General Phung Quang Thanh is seen talking to reporters in this file photo.
Tuoi Tre
PrevNext




*Vietnam’s Minister of Defense, General Phung Quang Thanh, has had surgery on a lung tumor in France, the Board for Protection and Care of Health of Central-Level Officials said on Wednesday.*

Minister Thanh, 66, arrived in France a week ago for treatment before undergoing the operation on Tuesday, the board said.

_Nguoi Lao Dong_ (Laborer) newspaper cited board chief Nguyen Quoc Trieu as confirming that the tumor was benign.
Vietnam defense minister undergoes surgery on lung tumor in France


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## Aqsuperman

no idea , quite possibly a VN product since we can produce boat like this  BTW about the posting , i cant put the picture in because everytime i did that , my Firefox crash most of the time :v
I also found a very nice picture about our Gepard defensive through google imagine , some sort of flare , PK-16 i think


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## Viva_Viet

Gen. Thanh think that VN-China should treat each other as 'brothers'....and he makes other generals feel so disapointed....
______________________


This may explain why Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh recently described *China's violation of Vietnam's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) as just a small disagreement among "brothers"*. Speaking at the Shangri-La defense dialogue on May 31, General Thanh was reluctant to openly criticize Beijing, even as its naval forces were harassing Vietnamese coast guard and fishing vessels in the vicinity of an oil rig operated by state-owned China National Petroleum Corporation.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-200814.html


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## Viet

Brotherhood bullshit. Last year both were short of an armed confrontation.

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## Aqsuperman

hey maybe that just some diplomatic speaking , what is the true motive lie deep down in each country policies


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## dichoi

Viva_Viet said:


> Gen. Thanh think that VN-China should treat each other as 'brothers'....and he makes other generals feel so disapointed....
> ______________________
> 
> 
> This may explain why Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh recently described *China's violation of Vietnam's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) as just a small disagreement among "brothers"*. Speaking at the Shangri-La defense dialogue on May 31, General Thanh was reluctant to openly criticize Beijing, even as its naval forces were harassing Vietnamese coast guard and fishing vessels in the vicinity of an oil rig operated by state-owned China National Petroleum Corporation.
> http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-200814.html



I think politburo members play the game "Kẻ đấm, người xoa".


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## Viet

_the news is primarily business related, but the visit of the Airbus CEO to the government makes the thing more interesting: the discussion on military aircraft, building of maintenance facilities, and cooperation on aerospace._



*Airbus Group pledges to support Vietnamese airlines: CEO *
Thanh Nien News

*HANOI* - Thursday, July 02, 2015 11:26 Email Print








_The all-new A350 XWB handed over to Vietnam Airlines _

Airbus Group pledged to support Vietnamese air carriers in developing fleet and personnel, its CEO Thomas Enders said in a meeting with Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung on Wednesday.

Enders was in Vietnam to attend a ceremony for the hand-over of the all-new A350 XWB aircraft to the national flag carrier Vietnam Airlines at Hanoi’s Noi Bai International Airport the same day, Vietnam News Agency reported.

He said Vietnam is the first customer in Asia and the second in the world to order and operate these long-range, twin-engine wide-body airliners.

*Airbus is willing to work with Vietnam in the areas of military airplanes and aerospace as well as building and operating aircraft maintenance, and repairing facilities, he added.*

For his part, PM Dung spoke highly of cooperation between Airbus Group and Vietnamese airlines in recent years and urged Airbus to implement the contract of handing 10 A350 XWBs to Vietnam Airlines by 2019.






He suggested that both sides design long-term cooperation strategies where Airbus would further assist Vietnam in training personnel and developing technical infrastructure, including maintenance facilities and aircraft component factories.

*Vietnam is willing to discuss and cooperate with Airbus in aerospace and military technology, especially transport aircrafts and defense equipments, he added.*

On Tuesday, the A350-900 aircraft was delivered to global lessor AerCap on lease to Vietnam Airlines for operation on long haul routes in a special ceremony in Toulouse. The aircraft was delivered to the carrier the following day. Altogether, Vietnam Airlines is set to acquire 14 A350 XWBs, including 10 ordered from Airbus and four from lessors.

Vietnam Airlines will inaugurate commercial service with the A350 XWB on Friday, initially on the Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh domestic sector and on non-stop flights from Hanoi to Paris in late September and from HCMC to Paris in October.
The aircraft is configured with a premium three class layout, with 29 seats that convert to full flat beds in Business Class, 45 seats in Premium Economy and 231 in Economy. In addition to more personal space in all classes, the aircraft features the latest in-flight entertainment and connectivity systems throughout. Vietnam Airlines’ new A350 XWB will join an existing Airbus fleet of 59 aircraft flying with the carrier, comprising 49 A321s and 10 A330s.

The A350 XWB is Airbus’ all-new family of widebody aircraft that is shaping the future of medium- to long-haul airline operations. The "XWB" in the name means "extra wide body."

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## Aqsuperman

A Japan-supplied ship to our Coastguard , about 20-year-old but still pretty robust


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## Viet

_why not negotiate to self produce the Gepards in our shipyards? not only we can build them faster and cheaper, but fit them with weapons we produce at home._






*Vietnam, Russia closing in on deal for 2 Gepard-class frigates*
12:39 July 3, 2015 RBTH

Vietnam and Russia are in the final stages of negotiation for the sale of two Gepard-class (Project 11661) light frigates, sources familiar with the matter told RBTH.

Vietnam has four such Russian-made light frigates, with two of them undergoing weapons fitting at the moment. A deal could be reached by the end of the month, the sources said.

The sources said the negotiations slowed down after China voiced its concerns over Russia supplying Vietnam with state of the art arsenal. China and Vietnam went to war in the 1970s and dispute certain islands in the South China Sea.

Moscow plans to overlook Beijing concern’s on Russia-Vietnam defense deals, the sources said.

Vietnam has four Russian-built Kilo class submarines and is expecting the delivery of two more. Vietnam is also looking to modernize its air force.


- Vietnam, Russia closing in on deal for 2 Gepard-class frigates | Russia Beyond The Headlines)

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## Aqsuperman

Two 12.7mm , perfectly for river patrol and lay surpressing fire


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> _why not negotiate to self produce the Gepards in our shipyards? not only we can build them faster and cheaper, but fit them with weapons we produce at home._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnam, Russia closing in on deal for 2 Gepard-class frigates*
> 12:39 July 3, 2015 RBTH
> 
> Vietnam and Russia are in the final stages of negotiation for the sale of two Gepard-class (Project 11661) light frigates, sources familiar with the matter told RBTH.
> 
> Vietnam has four such Russian-made light frigates, with two of them undergoing weapons fitting at the moment. A deal could be reached by the end of the month, the sources said.
> 
> The sources said the negotiations slowed down after China voiced its concerns over Russia supplying Vietnam with state of the art arsenal. China and Vietnam went to war in the 1970s and dispute certain islands in the South China Sea.
> 
> Moscow plans to overlook Beijing concern’s on Russia-Vietnam defense deals, the sources said.
> 
> Vietnam has four Russian-built Kilo class submarines and is expecting the delivery of two more. Vietnam is also looking to modernize its air force.
> 
> 
> - Vietnam, Russia closing in on deal for 2 Gepard-class frigates | Russia Beyond The Headlines)



The article says: "The sources said the negotiations slowed down after China voiced its concerns over Russia supplying Vietnam with state of the art arsenal."

This is what we were concerned about. This means that Russia is no longer a reliable and trusted ally. Need to go further in the direction of western, particularly Israeli weapon systems. Can't depend too much on Russia.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The article says: "The sources said the negotiations slowed down after China voiced its concerns over Russia supplying Vietnam with state of the art arsenal."
> 
> This is what we were concerned about. This means that Russia is no longer a reliable and trusted ally. Need to go further in the direction of western, particularly Israeli weapon systems. Can't depend too much on Russia.


that is much expected as the russians are in desperate modus seeking money and friendship from chinese capitalist. but nevertherless I think we should never give up russia. they are too much of strategic importance for us. and if there is anyone the chinese have most fear on the planet then that is the russian bear with some 10,000 nuclear bombs. close to china. delivery time: less than 15 minutes.

and of course, the klemlin knows that arming and supporting vietnam serves russian´s strategic interest in asia, too. that is a two way street. so if russia is wise she should not bow down to chinese demand, least blackmail.

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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> that is much expected as the russians are in desperate modus seeking money and friendship from chinese capitalist. but nevertherless I think we should never give up russia. they are too much of strategic importance for us. and if there is anyone the chinese have most fear on the planet then that is the russian bear with some 10,000 nuclear bombs. close to china. delivery time: less than 15 minutes.
> 
> and of course, the klemlin knows that arming and supporting vietnam serves russian´s strategic interest in asia, too. that is a two way street. so if russia is wise she should not bow down to chinese demand, least blackmail.



Russia & Vietnam are old friends I am sure that these 2 great nations can form a partnership independent of China


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## Viet

Echo_419 said:


> Russia & Vietnam are old friends I am sure that these 2 great nations can form a partnership independent of China


that is very true, but the old glorious days are when USSR and Vietnam were close allies long over.

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## Heinz Guderian

Viet said:


> that is much expected as the russians are in desperate modus seeking money and friendship from chinese capitalist. but nevertherless I think we should never give up russia. they are too much of strategic importance for us. and if there is anyone the chinese have most fear on the planet then that is the russian bear with some 10,000 nuclear bombs. close to china. delivery time: less than 15 minutes.
> 
> and of course, the klemlin knows that arming and supporting vietnam serves russian´s strategic interest in asia, too. that is a two way street. so if russia is wise she should not bow down to chinese demand, least blackmail.



Maybe you find this interesting.

Russian frigates left without engines prepared for transfer to India


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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> that is very true, but the old glorious days are when USSR and Vietnam were close allies long over.



Indeed Russia is not as reliable as the USSR was



Heinz Guderian said:


> Maybe you find this interesting.
> 
> Russian frigates left without engines prepared for transfer to India



I would not comment till Indian side confirms this


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## NiceGuy

Echo_419 said:


> Russia & Vietnam are old friends I am sure that these 2 great nations can form a partnership independent of China


Im afraid that is very hard to form coz CN is big enough to delay the supply from Russia to VN like what they did in 1979.

So, we have no choice but to wait for the collapse of CN if we wanna form a partnership independent of China, and seems like its coming soon when CN stock got a hit hard recently 



Carlosa said:


> This event clearly shows that the Patriot, which was a useless piece of crap during the Iraq war, continues to be quite bad even after repeated upgrades. That's why Japan wants AEGIS Ashore.


US is only good at making jet fighter, other US weapon suck, just like M-16 suck when comparing wt AK-47, and thats why Colt went bankrupt.

Btw: We can't trust AEGIS system, too, Im sure that it wont work well in real hard war.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> that is much expected as the russians are in desperate modus seeking money and friendship from chinese capitalist. but nevertherless I think we should never give up russia. they are too much of strategic importance for us. and if there is anyone the chinese have most fear on the planet then that is the russian bear with some 10,000 nuclear bombs. close to china. delivery time: less than 15 minutes.
> 
> and of course, the klemlin knows that arming and supporting vietnam serves russian´s strategic interest in asia, too. that is a two way street. so if russia is wise she should not bow down to chinese demand, least blackmail.



I agree with everything that you said, my point was to not depend on them TOO MUCH, that's all.



NiceGuy said:


> US is only good at making jet fighter, other US weapon suck, just like M-16 suck when comparing wt AK-47, and thats why Colt went bankrupt.
> 
> Btw: We can't trust AEGIS system, too, Im sure that it wont work well in real hard war.



They make good and bad things (and everything in between). If they offer something that VN can use, why not. F-16s would be nice. AEGIS for VN is not an option anyway. The Israelis are taking over the air defense role I think, they have a lot to offer.



NiceGuy said:


> So, we have no choice but to wait for the collapse of CN if we wanna form a partnership independent of China, and seems like its coming soon when CN stock got a hit hard recently



The chinese stock market collapse is just the first step, they have a few big holes in their economy, it only takes something else to trigger a chain reaction and bye bye chinese economy. Its just a matter of time.

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## NiceGuy

Carlosa said:


> They make good and bad things (and everything in between). If they offer something that VN can use, why not. F-16s would be nice. AEGIS for VN is not an option anyway. The Israelis are taking over the air defense role I think, they have a lot to offer.
> .


Sure, we love its F-16, and it will help VN to avoid using the same jet fighters wt CN when war happen.


> The chinese stock market collapse is just the first step, they have a few big holes in their economy, it only takes something else to trigger a chain reaction and bye bye chinese economy. Its just a matter of time


Right, I think Vn should think abt the plan to retake NanYue empire from now before others in Eight nations alliance may come and take that part from CN

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## Heinz Guderian

Carlosa said:


> The article says: "The sources said the negotiations slowed down after China voiced its concerns over Russia supplying Vietnam with state of the art arsenal."
> 
> This is what we were concerned about. This means that Russia is no longer a reliable and trusted ally. Need to go further in the direction of western, particularly Israeli weapon systems. Can't depend too much on Russia.


One question Gepard class using which gas turbine?


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## Carlosa

Heinz Guderian said:


> One question Gepard class using which gas turbine?



The first batch uses one made in Ukraine, but for the second batch (in construction now) Ukraine didn't want to deliver to Russia, so VN had to buy from Germany.

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## Heinz Guderian

Carlosa said:


> The first batch uses one made in Ukraine, but for the second batch (in construction now) Ukraine didn't want to deliver to Russia, so VN had to buy from Germany.


So, with which engine Russian going to deliver with? German?

The engine is OEM responsibility, not of VN. :/


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I agree with everything that you said, my point was to not depend on them TOO MUCH, that's all.
> 
> They make good and bad things (and everything in between). If they offer something that VN can use, why not. F-16s would be nice. *AEGIS for VN is not an option anyway. *The Israelis are taking over the air defense role I think, they have a lot to offer.
> 
> The chinese stock market collapse is just the first step, they have a few big holes in their economy, it only takes something else to trigger a chain reaction and bye bye chinese economy. Its just a matter of time.


bro, I am a fan of aegis destroyer. we need it for fleet defence. I lay my hope on the shoulder of the communist boss when he visits Barack Obama next week. the moment our Navy gets a squadron of aegis destroyers, is the moment I will quit this forum. Mission accomplished 

Vietnam Communist Party chief to meet Obama on landmark U.S. trip| Reuters

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## Viet

_Among the topics being discussed in Tokyo, delivery of new patrol boats from Japan and cooperation on counter terrorism._


News›Asia›Diplomacy
SOUTH CHINA SEA DISPUTE
*Japan PM Shinzo Abe and Vietnam PM Nguyen Tan Dung share ‘serious concerns’ about Chinese reclamation*

China claims sovereignty over most of the South China Sea, which is a vital shipping lane and believed to have rich fishing grounds.

PUBLISHED : Sunday, 05 July, 2015, 11:27am
UPDATED : Sunday, 05 July, 2015, 11:27am
Associated Press in Tokyo






_Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said Saturday he has shared deep concern with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung over land reclamation work in the South China Sea, taking aim at China’s attempts to change the status quo._

Abe said at a joint press conference with Dung after their talks that they “shared serious concerns over unilateral attempts to change the status quo,” without singling out China but apparently bearing in mind China’s growing maritime assertiveness.

“Our countries will further cooperate in building order at sea, land and air,” he said as they met after a summit of Japan and five Southeast Asian countries along the Mekong River, including Vietnam as well as Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar and Thailand.

Tensions in the South China Sea have been exacerbated in recent months due to the massive and fast-faced reclamation work which includes military installations. Other Asian countries and the United States have voiced their concerns over Beijing’s moves.

Dung said at the same news conference that he and Abe agreed on the importance of upholding the freedom of navigation.

China claims sovereignty over most of the South China Sea, which is a vital shipping lane and believed to have rich fishing grounds. Rival claimants in the dispute are Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, with Vietnam being vocal in opposing China’s push for overlapping territorial claims.

Dung also asked Japan for new patrol boats to protect his country’s seas, and Abe responded by saying Japan will discuss the matter to make it happen at an early date, Japan’s Foreign Ministry said.

Dung said he agreed as well with Abe to boost measures to counter terrorism.

Beyond their cooperation on maritime security and other global issues, Abe and Dung agreed to work together to pursue Vietnam’s infrastructure development.

On the occasion of their talks, Japan and Vietnam signed several agreements including providing yen loans totaling US$538.1 million for projects aimed at improving the Southeast Asian country’s power and water systems, and grant aid of around US$29.8 million.

Pushing for better infrastructure in Vietnam, which together with Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar is considered one of the less-developed members of Asean, is in line with Abe’s investment initiative announced in May to provide US$110 billion to promote “quality infrastructure” in Asia over the next five years.

Japanese government data show that as of 2013, per capita gross domestic product was US$2,073 in Vietnam, US$1,628 in Laos, US$1,103 in Myanmar and US$1,018 in Cambodia, compared with US$5,390 in Thailand, one of the leading countries of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

The average for Asean countries – also comprising Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Singapore – is about US$3,839.


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## Aqsuperman

old picture about stationary tank turret on island , the remain of the tank got transported back to mainland and acted as a medic vehicle  Now we are using turrets from PT-76 , T-54 , Type-59 , Type-63


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## Viet

1, 2, 3, now 4 kilo submarines in a row. a sea power in the making.







Is this our new Gepard frigate that is being under negotiation with the russian shipyard Zelenodolsk?
very special design. with extra compartments left and right for missile installation and heli pad.







SU-27 figher with *infra-red search and track* (*IRST*) system. for detecting and tracking objects which give off infrared radiation such as jet aircraft and helicopters.







What does the army in Mozambique?

Senior Lieutenant General Vo Tien Trung visits the country from June 30 to July 2. a present for the host: a donation of teaching equipment worth US$200,000 to the Mozambican Defence Academy, and providing training to 50 Mozambican policemen to attend international training courses at the Vietnamese People’s Police Academy this year.


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## Viet

Diver Training


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## Aqsuperman

Well............Thank god that we only holding it and not using it


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## Viet

Today I want to do something different, namely to comment on China´s White Paper, or Military Strategy, or bluntly how China organises its Armed Forces in peace time, under which conditions will it go to war. what implications will its White Paper have on Vietnam. Taking into consideration the imbalance of power between China and Vietnam. Not to mention the fear making Chinese Nuclear Forces. Sadly, as Vietnam does not possess nuclear weapons yet, so an ultimate deterrence does not exist. The State Council is basically the government of China.

Due to lack of time, I will comment piece by piece.

http://eng.mod.gov.cn/Database/WhitePapers/

*China's Military Strategy*

*The State Council Information Office of the People's Republic of China
May 2015, Beijing*

Preface
I. National Security Situation
II. Missions and Strategic Tasks of China's Armed Forces
III. Strategic Guideline of Active Defense
IV. Building and Development of China's Armed Forces
V. Preparation for Military Struggle
VI. Military and Security Cooperation


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## Aqsuperman

T-62 , about 200 of them form the best tank that VN can currently deploy..........well i really hope we can upgrade the entire T-54/55 fleet to the AMV or purchase something new ASAP


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## Viet

12,7mm NSV machine gun on coast guard vessels


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## Aqsuperman

KRATZ , this will soon be the main stay of VN transportation unit , replace all the previous GAZ model


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## Aqsuperman

soon , the runway on spratly island will be long enough to support larger aircraft , lets hope its some types like Am-124 or C-130 :v https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=QRiUzzM4wwlkUyZSPkYjIQ&bvm=bv.96952980,d.c2E


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## Thao Nguyen

Aqsuperman said:


> soon , the runway on spratly island will be long enough to support larger aircraft , lets hope its some types like Am-124 or C-130 :v


yeah, it should be bigger, not only for Casa,
I remember when Vietnam Navy meet Phil navy at Spartly for a game and party day, Casa was used to carry fresh beer and good food from Mainland to Spartly


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> soon , the runway on spratly island will be long enough to support larger aircraft , lets hope its some types like Am-124 or C-130 :v



C-295 more likely, which requires a 700 meter runway to take off fully loaded. That's 100 meters more than the present runway, so that's why its getting extended.

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## Carlosa

Sin Cowe Island 





Central London Reef





Discovery Great Reef. A helipad was built in 2013

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## Aqsuperman

a nearly forgotten member of the VPAF , a Polish-built M28 Skytruck , not too many action lately


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## William Hung

Hey @Aqsuperman gdqp being making lots of posts on the EF2000 Eurofighter lately. Are they trying to hint at something or is someone there just being a big fan of the EF2000? The ad won’t tell in the comments.


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## Aqsuperman

your guess is as good as mine :v


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## William Hung

I am a fanboy of the EF2000 too...secondhand ones cost $60-70m...add Meteor AAM...nothing in the SCS can beat it in air to air combat...nothing.


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## Aqsuperman

a drone that are used for target training , mainly for the 37mm and 57mm


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## Viet

*Vietnam Coast Guard*
July 9th 2015, launch of 2 new patrol boats, built by *Sông Thu* shipyard. More to come.


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## Viet

_I like it _


*Vietnamese Leader Predicts Closer US Military Ties*
By Aaron Mehta 6:49 p.m. EDT July 8, 2015




(Photo: Martin H. Simon-Pool/Getty Images)

WASHINGTON — One of Vietnam's top leaders says his country will continue to open up to the international community in coming years, a shift that he claims will benefit both Vietnam and the United States.

Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of Vietnam's ruling Communist Party, also told the audience at the Center for Strategic and International Studies that military and security needs of his country are "huge" and likely to lead to expanded military partnerships with the US.

"We will continue with the foreign policy of diversification and multilateralization, of mutual benefits, of non-interference, of equality," Trong said through a translator. "Vietnam is ready and willing to be a partner, a friend and a constructive and responsible member of the international community."

Trong's comments came as part of a broader visit to the Washington area, highlighted by a meeting in the Oval Office with President Barack Obama, the highest level meeting between the two nations since relations stabilized 20 years ago. He also met with members of the Senate. The visit coincided with events honoring the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam War.

The selection of Vietnam's 12th Party Congress, expected in early 2016, will provide an opportunity for the country to continue reforms laid out in its 2013 constitution, Trong noted.

"Vietnam in particular would like the United States to recognize the market economic status of Vietnam, open up its market for more Vietnamese goods and remove all barriers which still exist today," he said. "On its part, Vietnam will open up our market and welcome American goods, especially those of high-technology density."

Technology sharing would benefit his country in the oil and gas exploration fields, Trong said, but also in the realm of military and security.

Asked about what military technology he hopes to procure from the US, Trong avoided specifics. But he made it clear that is a priority for his nation, in particular because of the massive South China Sea area that is contested with an increasingly aggressive China.

"The needs are huge," Trong said. "I think that for our maritime cooperation, Vietnam has 3,000 kilometers of sea coast. Vietnam considers our 'blue' economy, our sea economy, as a major part of our socioeconomic development, and this is closely linked with our efforts to defend and safeguard our sovereignty and territorial integrity."

During a May visit to Vietnam, US Defense Secretary Ash Carter announced the government would supply Vietnam with $18 million to procure coast guard patrol boats.

Meanwhile, Sen. John McCain, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has indicated a desire to ease the sale of weapons to Vietnam.

Human rights remains an issue in the relationship between the two countries, however. While addressing that issue in his comments Wednesday, Trong did not back away from his nation's policies.

"Our most recent constitution from 2013, there is a separate chapter on human rights, and we are now improving and amending our laws to make them in line with this new constitution," he said. "At the same time we must recognize that the rights of each individual must be put in the context of the collective rights of the community. So each person has a responsibility to defend and protect the rights of others, and of the community."

Email: amehta@defensenews.com

Vietnamese Leader Predicts Closer US Military Ties

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## Viet

Vietnam and Belarus sign military technology agreement - IHS Jane's 360

Jon Grevatt, Bangkok - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
09 July 2015

Vietnam and Belarus have signed a military technology accord geared towards supporting Hanoi's purchase of equipment from Belarus, followed by localised manufacturing.

The Vietnam government said on 9 July that the "technical-military co-operation pact" will be implemented under an existing joint committee on military collaboration. It also indicated that a potential focus of the pact would be telecommunications for the Vietnam People's Army (PAVN).

The pact will also emphasise training PAVN technicians and engineers attached to the PAVN-run military industrial complex at state-owned Belarus defence industrial facilities.

Military-technical collaboration between the two countries is expected to further advance during an upcoming visit to Hanoi by Belarus president Alexander Lukashenko, the government added.


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## Aqsuperman

Navy issue :v


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## zhkf




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## Viet

there is report the last two remaining Kilo submarines will be transfered to vietnam earlier than expected. while the construction of the $1 billion submarine base makes good progress.


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## Aqsuperman

A checkpoint on the way into the Kilo docking bay , this place is heavy guarded


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## Carlosa

*Limits of US-Vietnam Relations Revealed in Communist Party Leader Visit*
The recent trip is not as monumental as some are making it out to be.
By Shawn W. Crispin
July 10, 2015

Limits of US-Vietnam Relations Revealed in Communist Party Leader Visit | The Diplomat

Was Vietnam’s de facto supreme leader Nguyen Phu Trong’s diplomatic tour of Washington, including a White House meeting with President Barack Obama, as monumental as reported? News headlines almost universally heralded Trong’s visit, the first ever by a Communist Party chief to the United States, as a historic milestone in deepening reconciliation and burgeoning ties between the one-time battlefield adversaries.

Beyond the diplomatic niceties, however, Trong returns to Hanoi with few significant military concessions at a time of dire strategic need, including a lack of progress in fully lifting Washington’s decades-old lethal arms embargo imposed against the communist regime’s poor rights record. Obama eased the ban last year, allowing Vietnam to obtain non-lethal maritime wares that so far have done little to curb China’s rising assertiveness in the South China Sea. Analysts had expected lifting the embargo to feature prominently on the meeting agenda and may have even been announced during Trong’s high profile visit.

Agreements from the meeting instead advanced a budding but still largely symbolic ‘comprehensive partnership’ launched in 2013. According to a White House statement, the two leaders achieved concrete agreements on double taxation avoidance, cooperation on pandemic threats, aviation safety and education. They also committed to cooperate on various regional and global issues, including natural disasters, wildlife trafficking and water security, and work towards concluding the Trans-Pacific Partnership preferential trade pact as soon as possible.

Militarily, the two sides agreed to a memorandum of understanding that will pave the cooperative way for Vietnam’s future participation in United Nations’ peacekeeping operations. It is assumed the MoU will entail human rights training for Vietnamese soldiers The _New York Times_ also reported vague agreements on “possible coproduction” of undisclosed defense technologies and equipment, as well as further joint naval operations. The White House statement said the two sides are concerned about recent developments in the South China Sea, but recognized the imperative of “refraining from actions that raise tensions” and reject “coercion, intimidation, and use or threat of use of force.”

The defense agreements announced during Trong’s visit will not significantly bolster Vietnam’s power projection or deterrent capabilities amid intensifying maritime territorial disputes with China. Chinese island-building in the South China Sea, if developed into military bases with air strips, represent a clear and present threat to Vietnam’s strategic position. In a provocatively timed move, China redeployed in late June its Haiyang Shiyou 981 oil exploration rig in waters claimed by Beijing and Hanoi. A similar deployment of the rig last year led to clashes at sea and lethal anti-China riots in Vietnam.

Hanoi is believed to covet U.S.-made P-3 Orion surveillance planes, aerial drones and gun-equipped high speed patrol vessels to counter China – all of which are still banned from sale under the current arms embargo. A recent _Reuters_ report quoting “industry sources” claimed Vietnam was in discussions with the defense wings of Sweden’s Saab, European multinational Airbus, and the U.S.’s Boeing to purchase jets, patrol planes and unarmed drones. Trong viewed a Boeing 787 Dreamliner commercial aircraft to be delivered to Vietnam during his Washington tour; Airbus recently announced plans to establish manufacturing plants in Vietnam.

Maintenance of the embargo is partly a response to Hanoi’s still abysmal rights record. Human Rights Watch, a U.S.-based advocacy group, says there are at least 150 political prisoners now held behind bars. Many of those activists were sentenced on anti-state charges for protesting against China’s perceived encroachment on Vietnamese territory or exploitative business practices. Obama told reporters he had “candid” discussions with Trong on human rights issues, but there was no sign of a breakthrough. For years, the two sides have regularly engaged in a largely ineffectual human rights dialogue. Vietnamese officials have consistently claimed they hold no prisoners of conscience.

Certain reports portrayed U.S.-trained human rights lawyer Le Quoc Quan’s release from prison in late June as a nod to Washington’s concerns, but the activist had already served his full 30-month sentence. Last October’s early release from prison of prominent blogger and anti-China activist Nguyen Van Hai, known as Dieu Cay, was viewed by some analysts as a quid pro quo exchange for access to U.S. maritime patrol vessels. Obama had publicly called for the independent blogger’s freedom and hosted him at the White House after his release and flight to exile in the U.S.

Nor did the Obama-Trong meet advance the U.S.’s call for preferential access to Vietnam’s deep-sea port at Cam Ranh Bay. Reuters reported in March that Washington requested Hanoi to stop Russia from using the strategically important base after Russian bombers used it to refuel while circling an American air base on the Pacific island of Guam. Consistent with its “three no’s” policy against foreign alliances, bases or reliance, widely viewed as a sop to China, Vietnam has declined repeated U.S. requests for exclusive foreign rights to the facilities, according to reports.

With the U.S. embargo still firmly in place, Vietnam will continue to rely on Cold War era ally Russia for its deterrent defenses. The week before Trong’s visit to Washington, Hanoi took delivery at Cam Ranh Bay of a fourth Russian-built, missile-enabled, advanced _Kilo_-class submarine designed for anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare. Vietnam will operate six of the diesel-electric submarines by the end of this year, giving it Southeast Asia’s most advanced fleet. While Vietnam may aspire to upgrade from Russian to U.S. gear, Trong’s symbolic visit highlighted the still high hurdles blocking a fully fledged strategic relationship.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam After 2016: Who Will Lead?*
*Vietnam After 2016: Who Will Lead? | The Diplomat
*
Every five years, the Vietnamese Communist Party holds its National Congress. Among other important policy issues, the party congress chooses the central leadership teams, to govern both the party and the country. If the 11th party congress (2011) is any guide, the new Central Committee, which will be elected by all delegates at the coming 12th party congress (to be held in 2016), will select a new general secretary (_Tổng Bí Thư_), a new Politburo (_Bộ Chính Trị_), a new Secretariat (_Ban Bí Thư_), and a new Central Commission of Inspection (_Uỷ Ban Kiểm Tra Trung Ương_).

Of particular interest is this: Who will emerge from the 12th National Congress of the Communist Party of Vietnam as the new general secretary?

*Political Context*

To answer this question, we must first identify the most influential leaders of the party establishment and, second, consider who among them is likely contending for the post of general secretary. Close observation of those leaders sitting at the central table at each of the recent major party meetings yields five familiar names: Lê Hồng Anh (Politburo Standing Committee Chairman), Nguyễn Tấn Dũng (Prime Minister), Nguyễn Sinh Hùng (National Assembly Chairman), Trương Tấn Sang (President), and Nguyễn Phú Trọng (General Secretary).

Backed by strong support from party elders, Anh and Trọng are seen as having led the pro-Chinese conservative faction in direct opposition to Dũng (who leads the pro-Western reformist faction). Between them le the reform-oriented moderate faction led by Sang and Hùng. All operate within a fairly recent party oligarchy (guarded by its military, security, and political elites, who have their own particular interests).

Even though they have not publicly declared their candidacies, each of these senior figures may well aspire to sit in the hot seat of supreme power. Their policy moves and political activities can reveal both the motives they conceal and constraints they face. Of the five, Anh and Hùng can likely be discounted, leaving Dũng, Sang, and Trọng in place to fight it out for general secretary. According to most observers, Hùng is politically the least influential of the five and may be succeeded by his National Assembly Deputy Chairwoman Nguyễn Thị Kim Ngân, whose “confidence vote” scores for her parliamentary leadership performance have been consistently high. Minister of Public Security General Trần Đại Quang is another possible candidate.

Anh, the Standing Committee chairman, is one of the most powerful leaders of the pro-Chinese conservative faction led by Trọng. However, he appears to prefer wielding political power behind the scenes, rather than contending for the general secretary post. Even if he was interested, his candidacy would be a long shot given that he would need to overcome his image as a tough former minister of Public Security as well as his “Chinese connections” (like those of Trọng and Defense Minister General Phùng Quang Thanh).

Sang and his moderate faction, meanwhile, appear to have been marginalized politically. Indeed, Sang’s candidacy for general secretary likely sank following last year’s oil rig crisis, when he was seen to have failed to be “presidential.” Ultimately, Sang may throw his political support behind either Dũng or Trọng, following some political bargaining. His supporters may prefer that he redeem himself with a more dignified exit.

What is thus shaping up is the final phase of a power struggle for party-state leadership between Dũng and Trọng, representing the pro-Western reformist faction and the pro-Chinese conservative faction, respectively.

*The Rise of Dũng*

Within this context, I argue that Prime Minister Nguyễn Tấn Dũng will be the next general secretary, barring a major upset. I offer six reasons for this.

First, Dũng will most likely win simply because his archrival Trọng has failed to offer the Vietnamese Communist Party a politically capable leader who can be seen as a superior candidate for the post. Trọng is due to retire after the 12th party congress but has failed to find a politically credible successor because he has unwisely surrounded himself with pro-Chinese party functionaries and die-hard ideologues, rather than the technocrats that Dũng has skillfully chosen to maximize and diversify his party-state influences. Trọng’s days are numbered and his options for a successor as general secretary and for other power seats in his faction have diminished. With the candidacy of Phạm Quang Nghị, first secretary of Hanoi, stumbling after his ill-timed U.S. visit last July, it seems that Trọng and his camp have been grooming Defense Minister General Phùng Quang Thanh to either succeed Trọng as general secretary or to take over from Sang as president.

The first option is unrealistic, given Thanh’s liabilities: his uncharismatic image, *his “pro-Chinese” position, and the massive corruption charges mercilessly levelled against him by an extremely controversial blog called “Chân Dung Quyền Lực” (The Profile of Power).* The second option, meanwhile, a diplomatically desirable state leadership position, which Carl Thayer suggests could maintain a vital hot link with Beijing, looks more realistic politically, but will nonetheless be an uphill battle. Still, it may explain Thanh’s high profile recently, at home and abroad. For example, Thanh accompanied Trọng on the latter’s highly publicized trip to Beijing in April, hosted Chinese Defense Minister Chang Wanquan for a joint friendship tour along the Sino-Vietnamese border in May, hosted U.S. Senator John McCain Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter in the same month, and visited France in June. While in France, though, Thanh was suddenly “hospitalized,” leaving his candidacy looking rather bleak.

The second factor in Dũng’s favor is that he has the ascendency in the power struggle against the Trọng-led/Beijing-supported conservative faction and has thus neutralized the most deadly obstacle to his peaceful and politically legitimate rise to power. The initial power showdown came in October 2012 when Trọng attempted to remove Dũng from power by having the Politburo to cast a “no confidence vote” against him for his mismanagement of the economy. But the Party Central Committee came to Dũng’s political rescue when it voted to support the embattled prime minister for his overall economic leadership performance instead. This was a major political victory, even if not a complete one, not just for Dũng and his reformist faction, but for the new state as the equal of the old party (the latter still under the firm control of the conservatives).

With the 12th party congress approaching, Trọng tried again to neutralize Dũng in January 2015 with an unprecedented confidence vote (_lấy phiếu tín nhiệm_) on the top 20 party leaders by the Central Committee. Trọng was hoping that Dũng would score poorly on his job performance because of the economic slowdown and rising corruption, and that Trọng and his associates would do well. In fact, unofficial reports suggest that the prime minister “outperformed his peers and secured the most confidence votes.”

That brings us to our third factor: Dũng has won the political support of the existing Central Committee and influential party elders and can thus secure the critical votes of the next Central Committee. All four “major reasons” that Lê Hồng Hiệp offers in his explanation of Dũng’s “growing influence over the Central Committee” are valid in my view. If Dũng can make good use of “his current political capital to get his protégés and allies elected to the new Central Committee, it is highly likely that he will be elected the next CPV General Secretary.” However, there are some other strategically important reasons why the existing Central Committee has backed Dũng consistently in opposition to Trọng and his powerful Politburo associates, and so will the next Central Committee.

First, it is strategically imperative for the Central Committee to maintain a balance between the two most powerful factions of the Vietnamese Communist Party – the pro-Chinese conservative faction led by Trọng, and the pro-Western reformist led by Dũng – so that party unity can be dialectically guaranteed. By orchestrating this kind of internal party duality (thesis/antithesis) rather than destroying the opposition (the internal antithesis) as President Xi Jinping has been doing in China, both party/state conflict and party/state harmony can be maintained, allowing both the party and Vietnam to retain their independence despite the power politics games played by external actors such as China, the United States, Japan, Russia, and India. Second, by maintaining internal party duality, the Central Committee members can also maintain and protect their personal and factional powers and interests in the way that works best politically and structurally. This in turn may help them avoid be the ultimate disaster: “_cảnh nước mất nhà tan_” (the country lost and the family destroyed scenario). Why? Well, if the pro-Chinese faction were allowed to emerge as the sole ruling power with the Dũng-led faction effectively destroyed, the Vietnamese Communist Party would be politically helpless in the face of China’s plans to transform Southeast Asia into the first sphere of influence in its pursuit of hegemony.

The fourth reason why Dũng will most likely emerge victorious at the 12th party congress is that a “power compromise” (_thỏa thuận quyền lực_) may have been made on the advice of party elders to maintain party-state unity and national sovereignty in the face of external forces. This possibility, which is premised on the impasse between the two equally powerful contending party factions, the Dũng-led faction and the Trọng-led faction, can explain two seemingly strange political events. The first was the choice of Dũng – and not Trọng or Sang, which would have been more logical – to be the keynote speaker with top party elders lined up behind him at the national 40th anniversary of the liberation of South Vietnam, and the stuningly anti-American speech that Dũng delivered. It could be argued that Dũng did this as part of a deal to become the next general secretary, allowing him to declare that he followed the official ideological lines and formally honored the indispensible Russian and Chinese contributions to the liberation of South Vietnam. The second strange event was the official announcements of Trọng’s current to visit the United States, granting him an opportunity to enjoy all the associated prestige prior to a graceful exit from power. (Another odd event: Why did Chinese President Xi Jinping invite Trọng to visit China first and grant him a state visit ahead of Trọng’s U.S. trip? Was it to preempt any future deals that Vietnam might make with the U.S. and to remind all concerned that China can still call the shots and that Hanoi is still under Beijing’s effective control?)

The fifth factor favoring Dũng at the 12th party congress: his qualifications for the job. The prime minister is the most impressive leader that the Vietnamese Communist Party has. If we take nine general criteria for power in Vietnam, namely, political vision, economic development/market-oriented management know-how, political/practical wisdom, charisma, national popularity, nationalist credentials, international stature, family wealth, and family life, it is apparent that Dũng does not possess them all, but it is equally apparent that he is ahead of the other senior leaders on most counts. None of his peers have the international stature, extensive connections abroad, and personal relations with other world leaders that Dũng has cultivated during his many foreign visits over the past two years, including his latest trip to Japan for the Seventh Mekong-Japan Summit.

Let’s consider another leadership trait. If the mark of a strong political leader is the courage to make a difficult decision at the right time, then the prime minister seems to have lived up to the original meaning of his name “Tấn Dũng” (which translates as “exceedingly courageous”). The first key decision moment came for the top four VCP leaders and the ruling Politburo, when on May 1, 2014, China installed its oil rig HD-981 inside the special economic zone claimed by Vietnam. Of the top state officials, only Dũng stood firm. Ten days later, on May 11, at the 24th ASEAN Summit in Naypyidaw, the prime minister lodged an official protest. By standing up to the Chinese, Dũng proved himself in the eyes of the armed forces, the Central Committee, and the Vietnamese public. Later, the prime minister surprised observers by publicly denouncing U.S. imperialism during the 40th anniversary celebrations of the liberation of south Vietnam, in the process winning the admiration of Vietnamese patriots and those anti-U.S. conservatives within the Vietnamese Communist party for speaking out against the U.S. even while seeking Washington’s support to counter China.

The sixth and final factor: Dũng seems to have earned the strong support of the armed forces and the powerful military elite, not only because of his nationalist stance but also because of his military modernization programs in pushing for the rapid development of the defense industry and purchases of jet fighters and six Kilo submarines during his 2009 visit to Russia, a visionary move in light of the Chinese encroachment into the South China Sea (which Vietnam calls the East Sea). Any resistance from Trọng and his pro-Chinese Politburo leaders to this kind of military preparedness may have cost them their claim to leadership in the eyes of the military elite, especially among nationalistic generals who have now rallied behind Dũng. The latest evidence of the military support that Dũng now commands is his presiding over the IXth “Determined To Fight And Determined to Win Convention” of the national armed forces in Hanoi on July 1 (with Trọng, Sang and Hùng all absent).

I would not go as far as Lê Hồng Hiệp and call Dũng “Vietnam’s most powerful politician over the past thirty years.” Like Carl Thayer, I would suggest that the prime minister is presently the most capable of all the top Vietnamese Communist Party leaders, and the one best able to lead Vietnam and safeguard its sovereignty.

However, if Vietnam’s next leader is to be truly effective and powerful both at home and abroad, the next Central Committee should unify the current separate party-state positions into one politically unified leadership post, by electing Nguyễn Tấn Dũng president of Vietnam, commander-in-chief of the Vietnamese armed forces, and general secretary of the Vietnamese Communist Party. The party should also begin work to create a modern republic with features such as a presidential democracy, a bicameral congress, two-party system, and a free press. This will avoid the rise of dynastic rule or dictatorship of whatever type, and enable it to better manage sociopolitical ills such as corruption.

_Chánh Công Phan, Ph.D. (University of Chicago), is an assistant professor of humanities and philosophy at the San Jose State University, San Jose, California, and editor of _The Eastern Paths to Philosophic Self-Enlightenment_ (Kendall Hunt, 2002). _

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## Aqsuperman

For checking mine-suspected object , made in Spanish

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## Viet

*Vietnam´s first ever Sail Training Ship*

Almost done, built by Marine Projects Shipyard at Gdansk, Poland: the Sail Training Ship "*Lê Quý Đôn*", named after a 18th-century Vietnamese philosopher: length 67 m, wide 10 m, sail area 1,400 m2, weight 857 tons, 3 poles of 40 m height, 30 Senior officers with 80 men training crew, 4 machine guns 12,7 mm WKM-Bm.

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## Viet

*Artillery*

Targeting enemy positions with M46 130mm Howitzer. firing rate 8 shots a minute, range 38 km.


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## Aqsuperman

the old timer SVD , still pretty effective


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## Aqsuperman

airfield defence forces


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## Carlosa

*8 Developments in US-Vietnam Relations Show Emerging Partnership*
*By Carl Thayer
July 13, 2015
http://thediplomat.com/2015/07/8-developments-in-us-vietnam-relations-show-emerging-partnership/
*
Various analysts and commentators have erred in their analysis of the recent visit to Washington by the secretary-general of the Vietnam Communist Party (VCP), Nguyen Phu Trong, by placing too much emphasis on the lack of a break through in defense relations. Trong’s visit was not a tipping point in Vietnam’s relations with the United States and China. Nor were arms sales and U.S. access to Cam Ranh Bay the major items on the agenda.

In 2013, when Vietnam and the United States raised their bilateral relations to a comprehensive partnership, they used this formulation because both sides independently concluded that a strategic partnership was premature. Reportedly, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton proposed a strategic partnership with Vietnam in mid-2010. Prior to her visit, the Defense Department released its _Quadrennial Defense Review_ (QDR) that mentioned developing “new strategic relations” with Vietnam. The 2014 QDR identified Vietnam as a “key partner.”

The same situation arose in Australia’s relations with Vietnam. In 2009 the then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd rejected Vietnam’s request to raise bilateral relations to a “strategic partnership” reportedly because he refused to sign an agreement that was largely symbolic. In addition, Rudd felt that defense relations with Vietnam had not developed sufficient intimacy to be called a “strategic partnership.” In the end, after much angst, Vietnam agreed to characterize bilateral relations with Australia as a comprehensive partnership.

The parallel does not end here. This year, when Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung visited Australia he met with Prime Minister Tony Abbott. They reached an agreement to enhance their comprehensive partnership in coming years but fell short from declaring a formal strategic partnership. After Secretary-General Trong’s meeting with President Obama, the two leaders issued a Joint Vision Statement that emphasized intensifying their comprehensive partnership. No strategic partnership was announced.

During the course of Trong’s five-day visit (July 6-10), he met with President Barack Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, National Security Advisor Susan Rice, Secretary of State John Kerry, Secretary of the Treasury Jack Lew, U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman, Senators John McCain and Patrick Leahy, American religious leaders, Vietnamese-American community representatives, American entrepreneurs, the head of the Communist Party of the United States, former President Bill Clinton, United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, and a group of Harvard University professors.

Make no mistake, Nguyen Phu Trong’s visit to Washington was historic and a major development in Vietnam-United States relations. It was also substantive for eight reasons.

First, the centerpiece of Trong’s visit was his face-to-face meeting with President Obama in the Oval Office at the White House. Normally, only heads of government or state are given this honor. The Obama-Trong meeting accorded _de facto_recognition to the role of the VCP in Vietnam’s one-party state and the importance of the party secretary-general in Vietnam’s political system. If President Obama visits Hanoi before the end of his term in office, this will further underpin U.S. respect for Vietnam’s political system. The meeting between Trong and Obama broke political ice and a set a precedent for future visits by Vietnam’s party leader.

Second, Obama and Trong agreed to pursue “a deepened, sustained, and substantive relationship on the basis of respect for each other’s political systems, independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.” These words are important because ideological conservatives in Vietnam voice suspicions that the United States wants to overturn Vietnam’s socialist regime through “peaceful evolution.” The fact that Trong was received in the Oval Office by Obama and the commitment of the U.S. president to respect Vietnam’s political system exposed the outdated worldview of Vietnam’s ideological conservatives.

Third, both leaders pledged to advance their 2013 agreement on comprehensive partnership by stepping up high-level visits and creating mechanisms to implement cooperation in the nine major areas outlined in the 2013 agreement. On July 7, the U.S. and Vietnam signed four agreements, including on double taxation, assistance for UN peacekeeping missions, cooperation in addressing emerging pandemic threats, and technical assistance for aviation safety.

In addition, PetroVietnam and Murphy Oil signed a cooperation agreement, Harvard University was given approval to establish the Fulbright University in Vietnam, and Vietnam took delivery of its first Boeing 777 Dreamliner aircraft.

Fourth, both leaders committed themselves, in cooperation with other nations, to complete negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and to carry out reforms necessary to reach a high-standard agreement. There are clearly several hurdles to be overcome.

The U.S. insists that Vietnam meet four principles included in the International Labor Organisation’s 1998 Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work. One of the principles is the right of workers to “freely associate” and to bargain collectively (form their own labor union). Vietnam is pushing the United States to grant it market economy status so that tariffs will be lowered on imports to the United States. Crunch time will come in late July as negotiators attempt to conclude TPP negotiations.

Fifth, both leaders pledged that Vietnam and the United States would work more closely together to contribute to peace, stability, cooperation and prosperity in the Asia Pacific both bilaterally and through regional multilateral organisations such as APEC, and ASEAN-related institutions, such as the ASEAN Defense Ministers’ Meeting Plus and the East Asia Summit.

Sixth, Obama and Trong set out a framework for resolving territorial disputes in the South China Sea. Their Joint Vision States basically repeated the standard formulations on both sides–maritime disputes should be settled on the basis of international law and by peaceful means. Nevertheless, the leaders prefaced their remarks by noting:

_Both countries are concerned about recent developments in the South China Sea that have increased tensions, eroded trust, and threatened to undermine peace, security and stability. They recognize the imperative of upholding the internationally-recognized freedoms of navigation and overflight; unimpeded lawful commerce, maritime security and safety; refraining from actions that raise tensions; ensuring that all actions and activities taken comply with international law and rejecting coercion, intimidation, and the use or threat of force._

In other words, there is considerable convergence of strategic interests regarding the South China Sea and both leaders easily accommodated the key concerns of their counterpart.

Seventh, Obama and Trong agreed to step up defense and security cooperation in maritime security, maritime domain awareness, defense trade and information sharing, and defense technology exchange. These commitments open new areas for cooperation. Nonetheless, the key agencies are the U.S. Department of Defense and Vietnam’s Ministry of National Defense, not the secretary-general of the Vietnam Communist Party.

When the International Trafficking in Arms Regulations (ITAR) were first adopted in the 1980s, Vietnam was included, not because of human rights violations, but because it was already subject to a U.S. trade embargo. The ITAR restrictions have remained in place despite the end of the trade embargo. ITAR restrictions have now been linked with Vietnam’s human rights record. This is a political decision taken by successive U.S. Administrations.

It is likely that Vietnam wants all ITAR restrictions removed to end what it views as discrimination rather than to purchase high-end offensive weaponry. Senator McCain has announced on more than one occasion that it is time to lift all ITAR restrictions. Viewed within this context, continuing ITAR restrictions are not as significant as some analysts assert. Vietnam has yet to reveal its hand about what weapons or defense technology it wants to procure under the partial lifting of ITAR restrictions. The U.S. has made clear that sales will be limited to materiel enhancing maritime security and the capability of Vietnam’s Coast Guard.

Vietnam’s Deputy Minister of National Defense Senior Lt. General Nguyen Chi Vinh and U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense for Asia-Pacific Security David Shear signed a Memorandum of Understanding on U.S. assistance to Vietnam for UN peacekeeping. Vietnam is poised to raise it commitment to the UN from five military officers to deployment of a level 2 field hospital and engineer company.

Eighth, both leaders directly addressed difficulties and challenges in their bilateral relations, including human rights and market economy status, and pledged to conduct positive, frank and constructive political dialogues to reduce these differences and build trust. In sum, the future trajectory of bilateral has been reset, but it will take time to flesh out the comprehensive partnership.

The meeting between Obama and Trong has set the foundations for the development of bilateral relations in the coming years. Trong will step down as party secretary-general early next year when the VCP’s convenes its 12th national congress. Obama will retire when his second terms comes to an end following presidential elections in November. In the words of John McCain, Vietnam is an “emerging partner” for the United States.


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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> *Artillery*
> 
> Targeting enemy positions with M46 130mm Howitzer. firing rate 8 shots a minute, range 38 km.



Perhaps India can aid pur Vietnamese partners in upgrading this gun to 155mm we have the sanegun & are upgrading it to 155mm standardb

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## Viet

Echo_419 said:


> Perhaps India can aid pur Vietnamese partners in upgrading this gun to *155mm *we have the sanegun & are upgrading it to 155mm standardb


how can you "upgrade" 130 to 155mm? that is a totally different caliber?


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## apiSubmarine

155 mm is automatic refill and build in GPS and mobile for fast in position. more effective.


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> how can you "upgrade" 130 to 155mm? that is a totally different caliber?


You can upgrade the M46 to 155mm , very simple by the way . Just need to replace the cannon breach , adjust the chamber and install a new barrel , you can check out the M46S by the Israeli or the M46/84 by the Yogoslavian ( Now Serbia hold the right to it ) , and of course , India have 1 too which is called IOB M46 FG 

the entrance


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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> how can you "upgrade" 130 to 155mm? that is a totally different caliber?



Its very simple just need to some small changes & replace some parts 

Here is a link too,right now upgraded M-46s are being inducted into army 

Indian Army hands over first M-346 guns for upgrade contest - IHS Jane's 360

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## Thao Nguyen

apiSubmarine said:


> 155 mm is automatic refill and build in GPS and mobile for fast in position. more effective.


and cost almost high as buy a new one

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## Viet

Nice, a major milestone for our defence industry. 

In cooperation with Damen Shipyard (Netherland), launch of two brand new landing ships built by *Hạ Long* shipyard for Venezuela Navy. Roro 5612 class, coded 1 and 02. Specs: Length 57,27m, wide 12m, weight 600 tons, speed 10.4 kn per hour. 2 more under construction.


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## kaku1

Viet said:


> how can you "upgrade" 130 to 155mm? that is a totally different caliber?


Search the Metamorphosis IOB M46 FG program of OFB ( ordinance factory board).


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> and cost almost high as buy a new one


how much a piece?



kaku1 said:


> Search the Metamorphosis IOB M46 FG program of OFB ( ordinance factory board).


I´m generally sceptical of any "upgrade" program. we pay a lot of money to get our T54/55 tanks upgraded. not sure about the results afterwards. maybe it is better to buy new modern battle tanks.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> how much a piece?
> 
> .


about 2 mil $/ a piece 
almost half of a new Ceasar , which is more advanced


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> about 2 mil $/ a piece
> almost half of a new Ceasar , which is more advanced


too expensive, not worth the money. also, I wonder why the army purchaces Caesar? a litle bit more, $4.5m, we can get german howitzer 2000: produced by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall, fully armored vehicle with a powerful 155mm gun. but maybe it is because the germans have a very strict export policy, not wanting to anger the chinese. who knows.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> too expensive, not worth the money. also, I wonder why the army purchaces Caesar? a litle bit more, $4.5m, we can get german howitzer 2000: produced by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann and Rheinmetall, fully armored vehicle with a powerful 155mm gun. but maybe it is because the germans have a very strict export policy, not wanting to anger the chinese. who knows.


I think truck mounted is more mobilize than tank mounted howitzer, and also it suitable for Vietnam traffic system, it can easily move on the normal roads without damage them, meanwhile tank and tank-mounted hotwizer need carrier truck to move . And Ceasar is most famous in truck mounted howitzer

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## Aqsuperman

The PZH 2000 will crush our street , its weight nearly 60 tons , that mean nearly twice the T-54/T-55 and 2S3 , three times the 2S1 , its mobility is not very good either , especially on the Moutain and Jungle terrain , that why we are investing on truck mounted howitzer and maybe partially upgrade our towed-arty

The heavy scout of our BBCG (mechanized infantry) , in the future it may equipped with heavy anti tank missile , perfect for shoot and scoot

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## Viet

_we are very close now. just a bit more then the embargo will end._


*Vietnam says US is moving closer to fully lifting embargo*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
13 July 2015






The Vietnamese Ministry of Defence (MoD) has indicated that the United States is moving closer to fully removing its military embargo imposed on the country.

The MoD said on 14 July that Frank A Rose, US Assistant Secretary for Arms Control, Verification and Compliance - who is currently visiting Vietnam - has indicated that the sales restriction could soon be fully lifted in line with deepening bilateral ties. The embargo was partially lifted in 2014.

Following meetings between Rose and Vietnam's deputy minister of defence, Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, the MoD said in a statement that the "US wants to soon completely remove the weapons embargo to make practical contributions to promote comprehensive partnership with Vietnam".

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## Viet

New generations of surface warships, be modernized version of Molynia and Gepard will likely come with russian made Klub-N cruise missiles against sea and land targets.

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## Aqsuperman

On normal , this guy will assist in bridge building , but when the situation arise , its will take part in amphibious assaunt


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## Viet

*James Boat Viet Nam
*
James Boat Vietnam: a new class of highspeed boats made of PPC (Polypropylene) comes to the fleet: light, cheap and fast. they can run as fast as 80 kmh.










the shipyard produces sport boats as well.

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## Viet

Improved version of Kh-35 anti ship missile coming soon in service for the maritime strike force: Kh-35UE, with extended range 260 km, instead of 130 km.

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## Aqsuperman

amphibious assaunt tank


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## Viet

women power


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## Aqsuperman

meh girls........who care ? we have our comrade and cooking oil.....................


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam's balancing act: Can Russia adapt to change?*

Anton Tsvetov, special to RBTH

It’s time to consider if there is anything that Russia can offer Vietnam that others can’t.

Source: Vietsovpetro

On April 6-7, 2015, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev visited to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (SRV). Russian public opinion is accustomed to perceiving Vietnam as a traditional friend and partner, preferring to ignore potential disagreements that arise between the two countries. Meanwhile, Vietnam’s current foreign policy is complex and full of contradictions, and Moscow will have to adapt to this.

To survive politically the ruling Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) has to demonstrate its ability to protect the country against external and internal threats and to improve the living standards of the country’s 90 million population. Economy is the top priority now, as Vietnam has only recently entered the group of middle-income countries and still faces various growth pains and challenges. In 2015-2016, GDP is expected to grow by just over 6 per cent, which is quite good by the standards of developed countries, but falls short of an economic miracle. Therefore, today’s priority for the export-oriented Vietnamese economy is to gain access to technology, investment and markets.

In terms of foreign policy, this implies the most pragmatic development of a wide network of partnerships. The Vietnamese leadership lost any trust in bloc solidarity since the Border War with China in 1979, and prefers to put its eggs in different baskets, trying to maintain good relations with China, the US and Russia, as well as India, Europe and other countries in East and Southeast Asia.

The close relationship that Vietnam enjoys with China is second to none. The reasons for this are quite obvious, namely civilizational commonality, the similarity of political systems and the tyranny of geography. The largest trading partner of Vietnam now accounts for about a quarter of the latter’s total imports. At the same time, huge trade deficit with China is sparking profound concern among Vietnamese experts, and this is not even the darkest spot on the surface of China-Vietnam ties.

The greatest difficulties are being caused by the territorial disputes over the Spratly and Paracel Islands in the South China Sea. And if conflicts between just Beijing and Hanoi are resolved with certain ease, the involvement of other Southeast Asian countries in the disputes and close attention of the international community fuels the debate, making a settlement nowhere to be seen. As it is often the case, external actors are siding with the weaker Vietnam. This only frustrates China, which feels like a besieged fortress and back-pedals with great reluctance.

Developing the relationship between Vietnam and China has never been easy. Of the dozen liberation wars that Vietnam has fought in its long history, only two were not against China. This nourishes nationalist sentiments in Vietnamese society and a fair part of the internal opposition favors a more hard-line attitude towards its northern neighbor. In May 2014, when China brought an oil rig within the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of Vietnam, rioters across the country burned and looted scores Chinese-run factories, many of which in fact turned out to be Taiwanese or South Korean. 

Yet, a split between China and Vietnam would be too far-fetched. Common political culture and spiritual affinity between the elites drive close interparty relations. It is even assumed that no major foreign policy decision is taken by Hanoi without consultations with Beijing. Anyway, it is the contacts between the CPC and the CPV that ensure the most expeditious settlement of conflicts. Closed-door talks on oil rig issue were held between party officials, although this incurred the displeasure of many members of the Vietnamese Communist Party, who insist on taking a tougher stance towards China.

This love/hate approach naturally prompts the Vietnamese leadership to diversify its foreign contacts, playing on the US’ desire to strengthen alliances in Asia. Vietnam is a key element of the rebalance and Washington’s major “new friend.” After normalizing relations in 1995, the two countries have developed their relationship by leaps and bounds, especially in the economic sphere. Today the US market is the main direction of the Vietnamese exports (about 18 per cent of the total). What is equally important, Vietnam is ready to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), the main economic tool for strengthening US influence in the region.

In 2014, the rapprochement between Washington and Hanoi was given two strong impetuses. Firstly, the ban on the supply of lethal weapons to Vietnam has been partially lifted. So far, supplies have been limited to arms and military equipment designed to “strengthen maritime security,” but the Vietnamese insist on the full lifting of the embargo, saying that without it the normalization of relations cannot be considered complete. Secondly, the so-called 123 Agreement on nuclear cooperation with Vietnam has been signed and approved by the US Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, which allows American companies to supply equipment for nuclear power plants to the latter. This is especially important due to the growing demand for electricity in Vietnam.

Relations between the two countries can hardly be called frictionless. The observance of human rights remains the main stumbling block. The United States criticizes the Vietnamese government for infringing upon the rights of the political opposition, religious minorities, as well as of workers and press. Indeed, working with the communist government is not an easy job for the Americans, but the CPV has its own serious concerns that Washington’s rapprochement has a long-term goal of eroding the party’s monopoly on power.

However, as of today, the US is ready to turn a blind eye to the fact that Vietnam does not meet the high standards of democracy and human rights. A stable political regime coupled with strong state control over the army is a valuable feature for an continental partner of the US in Southeast Asia. Recognizing its value for Washington, Hanoi expects to strengthen its own security, safeguard access of Vietnamese goods to the US market, and attract new technologies and investments.

Though betting on close ties with China and the United States, the Vietnamese leadership still does not want to fall victim to another bipolar confrontation. And this is why Vietnam still needs Russia. Relations between Moscow and Hanoi today have three very promising directions.

The first is arms trade base on extensive Soviet military aid to Vietnam, still considered a priority. The contract for the supply of six Kilo class diesel-electric submarines to Vietnam can probably be regarded as the most important achievement in this sphere. Submarines have been regarded the coolest bling in military fashion in Southeast Asia, as many countries see them as an effective way to counter Chinese assertiveness at sea.

Second, the energy sector is important in several respects. When it comes to this area, Vietsovpetro is the omnipresent success story. This is a joint venture for offshore oil exploration in Southern Vietnam that has successfully operated since the 1980s. However, there are a number of more recent projects, including those in Russia (which may come as a surprise to many Russians), namely in the Nenets Autonomous Region and in the Orenburg Region. The Ninh Thuận 1 Nuclear Power Plant project, launched in Vietnam by Atomstroyexport, is considered the gem of Russian-Vietnamese cooperation in the energy sector.

The third facet is the Eurasian Economic Union-Vietnam free trade area (FTA), the agreement on which is expected to be signed in 2015. This is one of the biggest multilateral projects for both countries. It is planned to zero out import duties on most goods and thereby contribute to the growth of bilateral trade.

But there are difficulties too. The movement of goods, which is a recognized indicator of the level of the development of bilateral relations, has indeed intensified. The parties note ‘with satisfaction’ that the commodities trade has reached $4 billion. The thing is that this figure makes up only 1 per cent of total Vietnamese turnover and about 0.5 per cent of the Russian stat. By comparison, the Vietnamese volume of trade with the United States amounts to $36 billion, and with China – to $58 billion. The creation of the EEU – Vietnam free trade area will certainly generate some growth, but it is doubtful that the effect will be significant enough.

Russia faces competition even in the above-mentioned areas of traditional cooperation between Moscow and Hanoi. South Korea, Japan, and soon the United States are Russia’s competitors in the nuclear power industry. In oil production, India is close on the heels. What will happen with the Russian export of military equipment if and when the US completely lifts completely the ban on the supply of combat arms to Vietnam? The sensational winning of the bid last year for the construction of an assault rifle assembly shop by the Israeli “Galil” in Vietnam, which managed to leave behind the darling of the developing countries Kalashnikov, is a bite of the reality sandwich.

The time has come to consider if there is anything that Russia can offer Vietnam that other countries cannot. What goods can help increase trade turnover? Will the Russian military-industrial complex maintain the price-quality balance at an attractive level for Hanoi? Does Russia have enough resources at the moment to participate in major investment projects in Vietnam? Can Moscow benefit from the growing economy of its Asian partner? These questions aren’t going anywhere.

Russia is important for Vietnam as a major outside power with which its leadership enjoys a strong partnership. However, the strength of these relations has almost never been tested in recent history. In March, the media reported that State Department had asked Hanoi to prevent the use of Cam Ranh airbaase by Russian aircraft refueling nuclear bombers. The Vietnamese side confined its reaction to a rather short and maild comment to the Russian Sputnik News website. Surely, such a leak to the media is a rather insensitive gesture on the part of the State Department, but the question has been asked: Is Vietnam ready to suffer political costs for close cooperation with Russia amidst the latter’s worsening relations with the West?

Similar collisions may arise within the Russia – Vietnam – China triangle. Both countries are strategic partners of Russia, but what do we do done if there is a conflict between them? And if we have to choose, let's be honest: we know what Moscow’s choice will be. The rich history of relations and the development of political and military dialogue are part of a solid foundation of bilateral relations. But if we can’t build a solid house on this foundation, we will still have nowhere to live.

_Anton Tsvetov is Media and Government Relations Manager at the Russian International Affairs Council (RIAC). He tweets on Asian affairs and Russian foreign policy at __@antsvetov__. The views expressed here are the author’s own and do not reflect those of RIAC._

_First published in Russian at Lenta.ru_

Vietnam's balancing act: Can Russia adapt to change? | Russia Beyond The Headlines)


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## Aqsuperman

SPG-9 , current our most mobile anti-obstacle and yet possessing heavy firepower


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> SPG-9 , current our most mobile anti-obstacle and yet possessing heavy firepower



Do you per chance know what the plan is for the Osa missile boats? Replacement, upgrade?


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## Aqsuperman

All the Osa-class boats (8 of them ) and 4 remaining Shershen-class will soon be transfer to either Coast Guard or Fisheries Control , their missiles launcher or torpedo launcher will be removed while retaining the AK-230 or also be replaced with some machine gun . They were too old and no upgrade is available to increase their effectiveness while we already have the Molniya-class and TT-400TP which is simply superior , all they got left is their speed

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> All the Osa-class boats (8 of them ) and 4 remaining Shershen-class will soon be transfer to either Coast Guard or Fisheries Control , their missiles launcher or torpedo launcher will be removed while retaining the AK-230 or also be replaced with some machine gun . They were too old and no upgrade is available to increase their effectiveness while we already have the Molniya-class and TT-400TP which is simply superior , all they got left is their speed



Ahh sounds good, thank you. It makes a lot of sense. There is actually an upgrade for the Osa with 2 quad KH-35 launchers in the back after they remove the P-15s, but its an old ship anyway.

I would rather hope to see a TT-400TP version soon with a couple of quad KH-35 launchers.

The following is a pic of an upgrade for the Osa with 2 quad KH-35 launchers:


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Ahh sounds good, thank you. It makes a lot of sense. There is actually an upgrade for the Osa with 2 quad KH-35 launchers in the back after they remove the P-15s, but its an old ship anyway.
> 
> I would rather hope to see a TT-400TP version soon with a couple of quad KH-35 launchers.
> 
> The following is a pic of an upgrade for the Osa with 2 quad KH-35 launchers:
> View attachment 238899



There is that new 700 ton class ship for SAR, that design is a much better candidate to become a missile boat.

Vietnam needs to learn from Indonesia how to develop our indigenous military industry. Indonesia are already at the stage where they can produce missile boats, stealth FAC, LPD, CN-235 and now they are already building the Sigma frigates while we are still not yet sure if the Viet Sigma deal is signed (when are they going to start building them?).

Not to mention they have received upgraded F-16s and are evaluating Rafale, EF2000, Gripens while we can only dream of those on forums.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> There is that new 700 ton class ship for SAR, that design is a much better candidate to become a missile boat.
> 
> Vietnam needs to learn from Indonesia how to develop our indigenous military industry. Indonesia are already at the stage where they can produce missile boats, stealth FAC, LPD, CN-235 and now they are already building the Sigma frigates while we are still not yet sure if the Viet Sigma deal is signed (when are they going to start building them?).
> 
> Not to mention they have received upgraded F-16s and are evaluating Rafale, EF2000, Gripens while we can only dream of those on forums.



And on top of that they also bought SU-35s including tech transfer. They also build armored vehicles, etc. They are about to build Korean subs under license also.

I guess that's what happens when you have leadership that wants to promote the local defense industry as opposed to corrupted leadership that only cares about how much $$$ they put in their pockets. Sounds familiar @gambit ?



Yorozuya said:


> There is that new 700 ton class ship for SAR, that design is a much better candidate to become a missile boat.



Are you talking about this, what's the speed of that boat?

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> And on top of that they also bought SU-35s including tech transfer. They also build armored vehicles, etc.
> 
> I guess that's what happens when you have leadership that wants to promote the local defense industry



Yes we must admit that their leadership is doing something right for their military, eventhough their country is probably also as corrupt as Viet Nam.

I just remembered too how they always dominated us in those military marksmen competition.

Sorry for sounding whinny, but reality has just hit me I think. Its like in Vietnamese football, we recently got really excited for our national team...then reality hit us and now everyone admits that we are not even on the same level as the Thai.



Carlosa said:


> And on top of that they also bought SU-35s including tech transfer. They also build armored vehicles, etc. They are about to build Korean subs under license also.
> 
> I guess that's what happens when you have leadership that wants to promote the local defense industry as opposed to corrupted leadership that only cares about how much $$$ they put in their pockets. Sounds familiar @gambit ?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you talking about this, what's the speed of that boat?
> 
> View attachment 238938
> View attachment 238939



No, there was a new one, blue and white hull....looks almost exactly like the TT400TP but just bigger...and its top speed and endurance was pretty good.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Yes we must admit that their leadership is doing something right for their military, eventhough their country is probably also as corrupt as Viet Nam.
> 
> I just remembered too how they always dominated us in those military marksmen competition.
> 
> Sorry for sounding whinny, but reality has just hit me I think. Its like in Vietnamese football, we recently got excited for the national team...then reality hit us and now everyone admits that we are not even on the same level as the Thai.



Yeah, both countries are massively corrupted, but their military leadership seems to be a lot sharper and efficient when it comes to weapon purchases and developing the local military industry.. And all their military purchases are all in the open, not all secretive which is of course a good way to hide corruption.



Yorozuya said:


> No, there was a new one, blue and white hull....looks almost exactly like the TT400TP but just bigger...and its top speed and endurance was pretty good.



Hmmm that sounds interesting, try to post some pics and info if you can bro, thanks.



Yorozuya said:


> I just remembered too how they always dominated us in those military marksmen competition..



I had also noticed that, they win every single time.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, both countries are massively corrupted, but their military leadership seems to be a lot sharper and efficient when it comes to weapon purchases and developing the local military industry..



They are milesssss ahead of our Viet Nam military industry. They already got their own CMS for their naval ship. As for weapon purchases, they buy, we dream lol.



> I had also noticed that, they win every single time.



And its not because of their guns or equipment. They also dominate in machine gunning, hand pistol competition, etc. So its their training that is better than ours.

Here is that new 700 ton boat:






Designed by a joint Russia-UK company but built in VN. Top speed is 25 knot which is not so bad...just need to upgrade to slightly stronger engines for the naval version. It also has a heli deck. Looks pretty good huh?


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> They are milesssss ahead of our Viet Nam military industry. They already got their own CMS for their naval ship. As for weapon purchases, they buy, we dream lol.
> 
> 
> 
> And its not because of their guns or equipment. They also dominate in machine gunning, hand pistol competition, etc. So its their training that is better than ours.
> 
> Here is that new 700 ton boat:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Designed by a joint Russia-UK company but built in VN. Top speed is 25 knot which is not so bad...just need to upgrade to slightly stronger engines for the naval version. It also has a heli deck. Looks pretty good huh?



I just founded the boat also, I was about to post the pics. Yeah, that looks interesting, it could be a nice missile boat.

700 metric tons, 63 meters long and 12 meters wide. That's bigger than the Molniya class (56 meters), it would be nice if designed with stealth features also. It has German engines. The helicopter pad is a nice feature. You can make a littoral ASW version with that.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I just founded also, I was about to post the pics. Yeah, that looks interesting, it could be a nice missile boat.
> 
> 700 metric tons, 63 meters long and 12 meters wide. That's bigger than the Molniya class (56 meters), it would be nice if designed with stealth features also. It has German engines. The helicopter pad is a nice feature. You can make a littoral ASW version with that.
> 
> View attachment 238942
> View attachment 238943



Yep, should mass produce in a littoral ASW version. Its big enough to carry sonars, torpedos and ASW heli. VN would need lots to monitor that big EEZ along the coast.

I wonder why they use “FC”? There is no F in the Viet alphabet.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Yep, should mass produce in a littoral ASW version. Its big enough to carry sonars, torpedos and ASW heli. VN would need lots to monitor that big EEZ along the coast.
> 
> I wonder why they use “FC”? There is no F in the Viet alphabet.



I have no idea about the FC name.

This boat does really look very similar to the TT-400TP. Just bigger and the helipad.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Yep, should mass produce in a littoral ASW version. Its big enough to carry sonars, torpedos and ASW heli. VN would need lots to monitor that big EEZ along the coast.
> 
> I wonder why they use “FC”? There is no F in the Viet alphabet.



If it were up to me, I would do the following:

1) I would make a version of the TT-400TP as a missile boat and it would also be a follow on of the Molniya class.
The TT-400TP is only 4 meters shorter than the Molniya, so in order to have enough space for the missiles, radar, etc, it would need to be stretched a little bit, so it would be at least the same size as the Molniya or a bit longer, so its also a follow on of the Molniya. I would redesign the superstructure of the ship for full stealth and it would carry 16 KH-35 missiles same as the Molniya and it could also be a version with 8 Yakhont / Klub missiles.

2) I would make a version of the FC 624 as a littoral ASW ship with a full ASW package and helipad.

3) I would make a stretched version of the FC 624, probably around 900-1000 tons, as a corvette with helipad and 8 Yakhont / Klub missiles. Full stealth features in the super structure of the ship. Decent air defense system. This would be a great boat to patrol the Spratlys, etc and not too expensive.

How does this sound?

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## Aqsuperman

oh i wish we still have this in active service


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ahh sounds good, thank you. It makes a lot of sense. There is actually an upgrade for the Osa with 2 quad KH-35 launchers in the back after they remove the P-15s, but its an old ship anyway.
> 
> I would rather hope to see a TT-400TP version soon with a couple of quad KH-35 launchers.
> 
> The following is a pic of an upgrade for the Osa with 2 quad KH-35 launchers:
> View attachment 238899


looks great the new Osa.



Yorozuya said:


> Yep, should mass produce in a littoral ASW version. Its big enough to carry sonars, torpedos and ASW heli. VN would need lots to monitor that big EEZ along the coast.
> 
> I wonder why they use “FC”? There is no F in the Viet alphabet.


"F" stands either for "fast" or "fcking fast"

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> looks great the new Osa.



It does look good with 8 KH-35s, that's one hell of a punch for a small ship like that, the ship has a very low profile so its not easy to detect, but I don't know how far out into the sea it can go since its quite small and is old anyway. It would probably be a good asset to deploy in the islands that have a harbor.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> If it were up to me, I would do the following:
> 
> 1) I would make a version of the TT-400TP as a missile boat and it would also be a follow on of the Molniya class.
> The TT-400TP is only 4 meters shorter than the Molniya, so in order to have enough space for the missiles, radar, etc, it would need to be stretched a little bit, so it would be at least the same size as the Molniya or a bit longer, so its also a follow on of the Molniya. I would redesign the superstructure of the ship for full stealth and it would carry 16 KH-35 missiles same as the Molniya and it could also be a version with 8 Yakhont / Klub missiles.
> 
> 2) I would make a version of the FC 624 as a littoral ASW ship with a full ASW package and helipad.
> 
> 3) I would make a stretched version of the FC 624, probably around 900-1000 tons, as a corvette with helipad and 8 Yakhont / Klub missiles. Full stealth features in the super structure of the ship. Decent air defense system. This would be a great boat to patrol the Spratlys, etc and not too expensive.
> 
> How does this sound?



Oi choi oi 16 KH-35 on a TT400 could be too much. Actually I dont like small FAC much because they can not survive missile hits (unless you jam in lots of those Barak-1 like the Israeli). So they are only good for coastal area. But then operating land based Bal-E is cheaper isn’t it?

While ASW cannot be landbased so operating lots of small cheap ASW boat to patrol the long coastal EEZ is a must. Then the Kilo can be used for attack role beyond the EEZ.

So TT400 and the new FC class can be converted to ASW role. Your streched FC is good because it would be big enough to be fitted with short range SAM. If not then, poor crew, its more of a kamakazi ship like the molniya. Hit and pray, not hit and run. Fire and pray that all the enemy ships get sunk, because you dont have decent air defence and you can never outrun a counter AshM.



Viet said:


> looks great the new Osa.
> 
> 
> "F" stands either for "fast" or "fcking fast"



Then what does the C stand for? China? so its “Fast China”???

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Then what does the C stand for? China? so its “Fast China”???


no way. it´s "*c*ứu nạn". for rescue. this vessel class is destined for rescue missions.

Nhà máy X51 hạ thủy tàu tuần tra, cứu nạn FC624-01 | Chính trị - Xã hội | Thanh Niên









Carlosa said:


> It does look good with 8 KH-35s, that's one hell of a punch for a small ship like that, the ship has a very low profile so its not easy to detect, but I don't know how far out into the sea it can go since its quite small and is old anyway. It would probably be a good asset to deploy in the islands that have a harbor.


indeed. hit and run. we can never catch up with the chinese in terms of number (they build some 60 vessels a year).


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## Aqsuperman

the hell ? is that half English and half Vietnamese ? :v

BTW this FC624-01 look a lot like the Rubin-class of Russian Navy , nearly the same size . This probably mean we can install the same weaponry as it


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> no way. it´s "*c*ứu nạn". for rescue. this vessel class is destined for rescue missions.



Then where is the N? and why is there a F in front where we dont use F in our alphabet?



Aqsuperman said:


> the hell ? is that half English and half Vietnamese ? :v



I think its in full English. C is probably for China, because we are comrade with China...I’m trying to figure out what the F stand for :v


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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Then where is the N? and why is there a F in front where we dont use F in our alphabet?
> 
> I think its in full English. C is probably for China, because we are comrade with China...I’m trying to figure out what the F stand for :v


LOL the chinese mod will ban you immediately if you speak out loud


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## Aqsuperman

FC stand for.........Further Confusion ? :v


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## William Hung

FC = Friend of China?

People say Vietnamese coast guard are very friendly with Chinese coast guard, when they meet, always say hi, hug each other.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Oi choi oi 16 KH-35 on a TT400 could be too much. Actually I dont like small FAC much because they can not survive missile hits (unless you jam in lots of those Barak-1 like the Israeli). So they are only good for coastal area. But then operating land based Bal-E is cheaper isn’t it?



If the Molniya has 16 KH-35, then an enlarged TT400 can also have then and don't forget that I said at least as large as the Molniya or a bit bigger. If its a bit bigger then it can pack a decent short range air defense system, that's my view of the ship. Still, its a better deal than the Molniya that has no stealth and uses the same design of the Tarantul, I think about 40 years old. Actually, I find it quite amazing that when everybody is building ships with stealth features, Vietnam is building a 40 year old Tarantul design (I'm talking about the vessel itself, not the weapon systems).

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## NiceGuy

Yorozuya said:


> Then where is the N? and why is there a F in front where we dont use F in our alphabet?
> 
> 
> 
> I think its in full English. C is probably for China, because we are comrade with China...I’m trying to figure out what the F stand for :v


F.... f.v.c.k ???.........


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Oi choi oi 16 KH-35 on a TT400 could be too much. Actually I dont like small FAC much because they can not survive missile hits (unless you jam in lots of those Barak-1 like the Israeli). So they are only good for coastal area. But then operating land based Bal-E is cheaper isn’t it?
> 
> While ASW cannot be landbased so operating lots of small cheap ASW boat to patrol the long coastal EEZ is a must. Then the Kilo can be used for attack role beyond the EEZ.
> 
> So TT400 and the new FC class can be converted to ASW role. Your streched FC is good because it would be big enough to be fitted with short range SAM. If not then, poor crew, its more of a kamakazi ship like the molniya. Hit and pray, not hit and run. Fire and pray that all the enemy ships get sunk, because you dont have decent air defence and you can never outrun a counter AshM.?



My idea for a stretched TT400, lets say about 60 meters, its to deploy it in the islands in good numbers and also to use them as wolf packs for hit and run missions (same as the Molniya). The stretched FC ship as a 1000 ton corvette. more for patrol duty in the whole area of the EEC and Spratlys as a ship that has much more endurance and more capabilities and also a helicopter.

Don't discount small ships like the Molniya so easily, I used to read from an Indian navy captain how it was very difficult for them to detect the Tarantul ships hiding among the waves and they were only able to detect them when they would get targeted by their missile fire control radars.


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> All the Osa-class boats (8 of them ) and 4 remaining Shershen-class will soon be transfer to either Coast Guard or Fisheries Control , their missiles launcher or torpedo launcher will be removed while retaining the AK-230 or also be replaced with some machine gun . They were too old and no upgrade is available to increase their effectiveness while we already have the Molniya-class and TT-400TP which is simply superior , all they got left is their speed



How about the 4 Tarantul ships, to be upgraded or replaced?


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## NiceGuy

This is the news from foreign papers, VN papers havent confirmed yet.

--------------------------------

*Vietnam defence minister dies in France after cancer treatment*






Vietnam’s Minister of Defence died on Sunday at a French hospital where he was being treated for lung cancer, a military source said.

General Phung Quang Thanh, who was 66, was considered a rising star in the Vietnamese Communist Party before his illness.

He died Sunday at Georges Pompidou Hospital, the military source told dpa. The source declined to be named as he is not authorized to tell media.

Rumours about Thanh’s illness began circulating with his absence from recent army events. In early July, Pham Gia Khai, a member of the Board for Protection and Care of the Health of Central-Level Officials, confirmed that Thanh was recovering from surgery for a lung tumor in France. He said that the general's condition was good and that he would return to Vietnam in two weeks.

*Thanh had been considered a likely candidate to take up the position of Vietnamese president* at the country's next party congress, sources said.

http://dalje.com/en-world/vietnam-defence-minister-dies-in-france-after-cancer-treatment/550644?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: daljeenglish (dalje.com English)


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## William Hung

NiceGuy said:


> This is the news from foreign papers, VN papers havent confirmed yet.
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> *Vietnam defence minister dies in France after cancer treatment*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam’s Minister of Defence died on Sunday at a French hospital where he was being treated for lung cancer, a military source said.
> 
> General Phung Quang Thanh, who was 66, was considered a rising star in the Vietnamese Communist Party before his illness.
> 
> He died Sunday at Georges Pompidou Hospital, the military source told dpa. The source declined to be named as he is not authorized to tell media.
> 
> Rumours about Thanh’s illness began circulating with his absence from recent army events. In early July, Pham Gia Khai, a member of the Board for Protection and Care of the Health of Central-Level Officials, confirmed that Thanh was recovering from surgery for a lung tumor in France. He said that the general's condition was good and that he would return to Vietnam in two weeks.
> 
> *Thanh had been considered a likely candidate to take up the position of Vietnamese president* at the country's next party congress, sources said.
> 
> http://dalje.com/en-world/vietnam-defence-minister-dies-in-france-after-cancer-treatment/550644?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: daljeenglish (dalje.com English)



What is that true? 

@Aqsuperman can you comfirm if that English news is real?

This is the latest article from Soha today, he is still in France...whether he recovered or not? 


“Ngày nào tôi cũng gọi điện tới Đại tướng Phùng Quang Thanh” | Xã hội | soha.vn


“Anh ấy bệnh về phổi nên chưa nên đi máy bay về ngay. Chuyến bay sẽ kéo dài 12 tiếng đồng hồ liên tục trên độ cao 10.000m, nên cần để sức khỏe bình phục hoàn toàn rồi hãy về.”

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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> How about the 4 Tarantul ships, to be upgraded or replaced?


Well i think that the most likely choice is upgrading but if the higher up consider that building more Molniya is more economical and transfer the rest of the old missile boats to the civillian section then it cant be help 




Yorozuya said:


> What is that true?
> 
> @Aqsuperman can you comfirm if that English news is real?
> 
> This is the latest article from Soha today, he is still in France...whether he recovered or not



well i already done some research , dalje.com is some kind of a Croatia tabloid , not really a reliable source if you ask me , and lol look at all those Vietnamese comment , i bet 9 out of 10 never even heard about that newspaper name and yet they start proving how shit brain they are :v

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## Aqsuperman

Technically , BMP-1 main gun and SPG-9 use the same ammunition , just a different charge


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## Thao Nguyen

NiceGuy said:


> This is the news from foreign papers, VN papers havent confirmed yet.
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> *Vietnam defence minister dies in France after cancer treatment*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam’s Minister of Defence died on Sunday at a French hospital where he was being treated for lung cancer, a military source said.
> 
> General Phung Quang Thanh, who was 66, was considered a rising star in the Vietnamese Communist Party before his illness.
> 
> He died Sunday at Georges Pompidou Hospital, the military source told dpa. The source declined to be named as he is not authorized to tell media.
> 
> Rumours about Thanh’s illness began circulating with his absence from recent army events. In early July, Pham Gia Khai, a member of the Board for Protection and Care of the Health of Central-Level Officials, confirmed that Thanh was recovering from surgery for a lung tumor in France. He said that the general's condition was good and that he would return to Vietnam in two weeks.
> 
> *Thanh had been considered a likely candidate to take up the position of Vietnamese president* at the country's next party congress, sources said.
> 
> http://dalje.com/en-world/vietnam-defence-minister-dies-in-france-after-cancer-treatment/550644?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: daljeenglish (dalje.com English)

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## xesy

DPA has verified the info and gave VN an apology for that matter. Case closed.


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## Thao Nguyen

Vietnam made indigenous fire control system for T54-B
Xe tăng T-54B Việt Nam có hệ thống điểu khiển hỏa lực


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## William Hung

xesy said:


> DPA has verified the info and gave VN an apology for that matter. Case closed.



Can you give the link where DPA made this apology? I can’t find it.



Thao Nguyen said:


> Vietnam made indigenous fire control system for T54-B
> Xe tăng T-54B Việt Nam có hệ thống điểu khiển hỏa lực



So does this mean the T-54 will not go for the Israeli or Russian upgrade?


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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> So does this mean the T-54 will not go for the Israeli or Russian upgrade?


I think so, we can save USD to buy new tank, for example T-90, T-54 and T-55 may be will be upgrade using Vietnamese technology
BTW. last year new, Vienam made indigenous ERA
Việt Nam chế tạo giáp ERA cho xe tăng T-54/55
clip

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## William Hung

Thao Nguyen said:


> I think so, we can save USD to buy new tank, for example T-90, T-54 and T-55 may be will be upgrade using Vietnamese technology
> BTW. last year new, Vienam made indigenous ERA
> Việt Nam chế tạo giáp ERA cho xe tăng T-54/55
> clip



So it means T-54 will just get upgraded indigenously with the experience from the T-55M3 prototype. That is much better than spending too much money on foreign upgrade for that small tank. The ERA looks good.

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## xesy

Yorozuya said:


> Can you give the link where DPA made this apology? I can’t find it.
> 
> 
> 
> So does this mean the T-54 will not go for the Israeli or Russian upgrade?


Sorry, my mistake. I should have writen "verified the info with the person in charge."

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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> So it means T-54 will just get upgraded indigenously with the experience from the T-55M3 prototype. That is much better than spending too much money on foreign upgrade for that small tank. The ERA looks good.


that is my private thinking , not offical decision. OK?

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> So it means T-54 will just get upgraded indigenously with the experience from the T-55M3 prototype. That is much better than spending too much money on foreign upgrade for that small tank. The ERA looks good.



Not bad, this is a bit of a surprise.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Not bad, this is a bit of a surprise.



Unfortunately we dont know if thats the official decision yet. So hold back on your surprise for now. It would indeed be good if true.


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## Aqsuperman

a mysterious armored vehicle , the track look like a BMP yet the rear look like a PTS


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## Viet

still so many old tanks in service. they have little chance against heavy armored chinese tanks. I wonder when we see our first modern tanks? taking all things too long.


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## Viet




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## xesy

Viet said:


>


I see no problem with these old boys. VN is not an ideal battlefield for tanks, especially the VN-China border area. Also morden anti-tank weapons platforms are much more advanced and cheaper than tanks. VN tanks should only be used as infantry support, not spear head of a charge or attack (of course it depends on the situation).

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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> I see no problem with these old boys. VN is not an ideal battlefield for tanks, especially the VN-China border area. Also morden anti-tank weapons platforms are much more advanced and cheaper than tanks. VN tanks should only be used as infantry support, not spear head of a charge or attack (of course it depends on the situation).



That's exactly how VN uses the T-54 / 55, for infantry support. They are not meant to go head on against modern MBTs, for that VN will use T-72 (eventually upgraded to T-72B3 standard) and T-90.

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## xesy

Carlosa said:


> That's exactly how VN uses the T-54 / 55, for infantry support. They are not meant to go head on against modern MBTs, for that VN will use T-72 (eventually upgraded to T-72B3 standard) and T-90.


I don't think VN have enough T-72s (if we have any at all, as I haven't seen any pics of it in VN, but well, maybe they are classified) for a conventional war, and T-90 is still a question. Also, T-54/55 required 5 soldiers to operate (maybe 4 if upgraded) and we have quite a lot of them lying around already. Tanks are no longer kings of the battlefield so why invest more money on them? I am not against upgrading them but buying new pieces, I prefered a different option.


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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> I don't think VN have enough T-72s (if we have any at all, as I haven't seen any pics of it in VN, but well, maybe they are classified) for a conventional war, and T-90 is still a question. Also, T-54/55 required 5 soldiers to operate (maybe 4 if upgraded) and we have quite a lot of them lying around already. Tanks are no longer kings of the battlefield so why invest more money on them? I am not against upgrading them but buying new pieces, I prefered a different option.



480 T-72s according to Russian sources since VN asked them to upgrade them, but forget about finding pictures. There are different stories about the T-90, but its either in VN already or coming soon, I believe VN already have a number, but its impossible to prove of course.

A T-54 / 55 is just being used as a IFV on steroids and that's ok, its very useful that way, and with a fire control system it will be able to fire accurately while on the move, so its a worthwhile upgrade.
Sure, they are vulnerable, but they do provide heavy firepower while on the move and only a tank can give you that.


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## Viet

xesy said:


> I see no problem with these old boys. VN is not an ideal battlefield for tanks, especially the VN-China border area. Also morden anti-tank weapons platforms are much more advanced and cheaper than tanks. VN tanks should only be used as infantry support, not spear head of a charge or attack (of course it depends on the situation).


Tanks as infantry support is an outdated tactic of WW 1. We need modern tanks to break through Chinese defence lines. For counter strikes. For offensives, encircling their armies in southern China. Without credible deterrence, Chinese think they can come and rape our people without impunity.


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## William Hung

xesy said:


> I see no problem with these old boys. VN is not an ideal battlefield for tanks, especially the VN-China border area. Also morden anti-tank weapons platforms are much more advanced and cheaper than tanks. VN tanks should only be used as infantry support, not spear head of a charge or attack (of course it depends on the situation).



This is why we hope our limited money won’t be spent on upgrading these old tanks with expensive foreign contracters.

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## Aqsuperman

a rough scheme of 1 PT-76 and 1 M1113 in a new transport boat , mass produce these ships and we can quickly provide heavy firepower to our landing troops


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## xesy

Viet said:


> Tanks as infantry support is an outdated tactic of WW 1. We need modern tanks to break through Chinese defence lines. For counter strikes. For offensives, encircling their armies in southern China. Without credible deterrence, Chinese think they can come and rape our people without impunity.


I think both grand tank battles and mechanize spear head tatics are actually outdated. In fact tank itself has become a less effective weapon on the modern battlefied (i.e urban area, jungle or mountain terrains). With a few breakthroughs here and there, I believe a new platform will appear to replace tank, and it certainly won't be called tank.



Yorozuya said:


> This is why we hope our limited money won’t be spent on upgrading these old tanks with expensive foreign contracters.


Too expensive to buy new pieces, too ineffective to leave those old tanks to rust. The brass gotta find a way to spend those tax money.


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## Viet

xesy said:


> I think both grand tank battles and mechanize spear head tatics are actually outdated. In fact tank itself has become a less effective weapon on the modern battlefied (i.e urban area, jungle or mountain terrains). With a few breakthroughs here and there, I believe a new platform will appear to replace tank, and it certainly won't be called tank.
> 
> 
> Too expensive to buy new pieces, too ineffective to leave those old tanks to rust. The brass gotta find a way to spend those tax money.


I don´t think so. In terms of speed, firepower, armor, survivability and thrust, no weapon system on the ground comes close to tank. sure, for instance howitzer has more firepower, but it lacks of other factors. the combination of all factors makes tank to the KING on the ground. if not, why do major tank manufactures develop new generations of tanks? China, Russia, now followed by Germany and France. as the latter fear the new russian battle tank armatar. During the cold war, it was the soviet tank armies of 10,000 tanks stationed on the eastern front that made the NATO sleepless.

Nachfolger für "Leopard 2" : Bundeswehr soll neue Panzer bekommen | tagesschau.de

never underestimate the firepower and speed of a tank army when they operate in mass. during the WW 1, the moment when the british and french tanks broke through the german defence lines on the western front, the war was lost for the germans. the german military leadership failed to recognise the importance of the new weapon on the battlefield. Similar during the height of WW 2, when the Soviet tanks broke the spine of the german tank armies in the battle of Kursk. after the near defeat, the germans withdrew piece by piece until the final unconditional surrender in 1945.

Battle of Kursk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






with the times going by, we will see modern infrastructures in Vietnam and China: roads, bridges, trains and highways. not much with jungles and difficult terrains in old day, when you can say they are natural defence. modern tanks can even survive a nuclear strike.


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## Aqsuperman

uh........Technically no tank in the world can remain active after a nuclear strike , the crew will be perished by the shockwave , the tank do have the capability to operate in the NBC situation though , the tank itself can be used even after the shockwave but with a new crew and you can say goodbye to all the complex electrical system . In this time of day , the man-portable anti-tank weapons have advanced to the point that with a squad of infantry you can make short work of a mechanized column , WW1 and WW2 and even the Cold War , anti tank weapon at those time largely require big and cumbersome anti-tank gun , The Cold War improved a bit but the warhead and penetration level is still primitive and low , but nowaday , tank can be pretty easy to take out if without proper infantry and IFV cover ................so now i think we need something that have the firepower of a tank but much faster and more manouverable , like B1 Centauro , BMP-3 , M1128 .


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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> I think both grand tank battles and mechanize spear head tatics are actually outdated. In fact tank itself has become a less effective weapon on the modern battlefied (i.e urban area, jungle or mountain terrains). With a few breakthroughs here and there, I believe a new platform will appear to replace tank, and it certainly won't be called tank.
> 
> 
> Too expensive to buy new pieces, too ineffective to leave those old tanks to rust. The brass gotta find a way to spend those tax money.



Not really, at least not with the present anti tank weapon systems.

Anti tank weapons get better, then the tanks get better protection.
Try to perforate the armor of a T-90, even when a T-90 shoots at point blank against another T-90, it can't penetrate the armor, so how are you going to defeat that tank? Not easy, air launched weapons probably, top hitting missiles maybe or lucky shots.

How about when a tank uses active defense, how do you hit that tank?
The latest Merkava has active defense and in the last Gaza war, 1 tank defeated 7 antitank missiles, so how do you destroy tanks like that?

Active defense keeps getting better by the way. Second / third generation active defense will even be able to intercept a high speed shell from another tank. Good luck trying to defeat tanks like that.

The reality is that the tank continues to be the king of the battlefield, but that only applies to modern MBTs.

Did any country ditch its tanks? NO, that tell you something.

What @Viet said before about tanks used as infantry support being outdated is correct but only applies to modern MBTs. For older tanks such as T-54 / 55, the correct role is as infantry support (like an IFV), so what the Vietnamese army is doing with them is correct and makes sense to upgrade them (cheap local upgrade).



Aqsuperman said:


> uh........Technically no tank in the world can remain active after a nuclear strike , the crew will be perished by the shockwave , the tank do have the capability to operate in the NBC situation though , the tank itself can be used even after the shockwave but with a new crew and you can say goodbye to all the complex electrical system . In this time of day , the man-portable anti-tank weapons have advanced to the point that with a squad of infantry you can make short work of a mechanized column , WW1 and WW2 and even the Cold War , anti tank weapon at those time largely require big and cumbersome anti-tank gun , The Cold War improved a bit but the warhead and penetration level is still primitive and low , but nowaday , tank can be pretty easy to take out if without proper infantry and IFV cover ................so now i think we need something that have the firepower of a tank but much faster and more manouverable , like B1 Centauro , BMP-3 , M1128 .



You tell me in detail how you can easily take out a modern tank like T-90 (not even talk about Armata) that has active defense.



Aqsuperman said:


> so now i think we need something that have the firepower of a tank but much faster and more manouverable , like B1 Centauro , BMP-3 , M1128 .



Those IFV vehicles that you like such as like B1 Centauro , BMP-3 , M1128 are actually the ones that are very easy to take out (unless they have active protection as the US is starting to do with the striker).

For an IFV you do need to be light and mobile (and vulnerable), that's just part of the job, but if you want the heavy firepower on the move and difficult to defeat, only a modern MBT can give you that.

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## xesy

Carlosa said:


> Not really, at least not with the present anti tank weapon systems.
> 
> Anti tank weapons get better, then the tanks get better protection.
> Try to perforate the armor of a T-90, even when a T-90 shoots at point blank against another T-90, it can't penetrate the armor, so how are you going to defeat that tank? Not easy, air launched weapons probably or lucky shots.
> 
> How about when a tank uses active defense, how do you hit that tank?
> The latest Merkava has active defense and in the last Gaza war, 1 tank defeated 7 antitank missiles, so how do you destroy tanks like that?
> 
> Active defense keeps getting better by the way.
> 
> The reality is that the tank continues to be the king of the battlefield, but that only applies to modern MBTs.
> 
> Did any country ditched its tanks? NO, that tell you something.
> 
> What @Viet said before about tanks used as infantry support being outdated is correct but only applies to modern MBTs. For older tanks such as T-54 / 55, the correct role is as infantry support (like an IFV), so what the Vietnamese army is doing with them is correct and makes sense to upgrade them (cheap local upgrade).
> 
> 
> 
> You tell me in detail how you can easily take out a modern tank like T-90 (not even talk about Armata) that has active defense.
> 
> 
> 
> Those IFV vehicles that you like such as like B1 Centauro , BMP-3 , M1128 are actually the ones that are very easy to take out (unless they have active protection as the US is starting to do with the striker).
> 
> For an IFV you do need to be light (and vulnerable), that's just part of the job, but if you want the heavy firepower on the move and difficult to defeat, only a modern MBT can give you that.


The thing is after WW2 there was hardly any true "tank battle". There were always 1 side with tank and 1 side without and tanks hardly directly confronted with each other (in large scale). Don't even mention Operation Desert Storm because Iraqi tanks didn't even have a chance to attack US tanks before US A-10s made short work of them. Also since WW2, people have invented way too many weapons and tatics to make tank not so invincible anymore: anti-tank mines, IEDs, rockets, helicopter, artillery rounds, bombs... Sure the armor might better, but it never really catch up with the weapons. Also with proper tatics, people can still make use of old weapons to destroy or disable tanks. For example, Russian T-90s were destroyed by Gruzians when they ganged up and fired 10-12 rounds of RPG-7 or RPG-12 on the top or the back (plausible for urban warfare). And those are weapons half century old. With things like AT-4 or Javelin or RPG-29, I believe tank look more like a metal box waiting to be blow up. Because its armor has to protect many area, while anti-tank only need an entry to make the tank go boom.


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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> The thing is after WW2 there was hardly any true "tank battle". There were always 1 side with tank and 1 side without and tanks hardly directly confronted with each other (in large scale). Don't even mention Operation Desert Storm because Iraqi tanks didn't even have a chance to attack US tanks before US A-10s made short work of them. Also since WW2, people have invented way too many weapons and tatics to make tank not so invincible anymore: anti-tank mines, IEDs, rockets, helicopter, artillery rounds, bombs... Sure the armor might better, but it never really catch up with the weapons. Also with proper tatics, people can still make use of old weapons to destroy or disable tanks. For example, Russian T-90s were destroyed by Gruzians when they ganged up and fired 10-12 rounds of RPG-7 or RPG-12 on the top or the back (plausible for urban warfare). And those are weapons half century old. With things like AT-4 or Javelin or RPG-29, I believe tank look more like a metal box waiting to be blow up. Because its armor has to protect many area, while anti-tank only need an entry to make the tank go boom.



I understand your points and yes, there are some ways to stop a tank such as IEDs, etc, and that's mostly in very specific environments, but everything depends on how well protected the tank is; the point that you are not addressing is modern MBTs with active defense, how do you stop tanks like that? No missiles will work in a situation like that, it does not matter if the missiles are from the ground or air or if they try to hit the top of the tank, it will not work because those missiles will get intercepted before they reach the tank and they can come from any angle, it does not matter.

You can find many examples from the past, but those do not include tanks with active defense; the only case of tanks with active defense used in actual combat was in the last Gaza war and even that Hamas had many resources for anti tank defense, they could not hit a single Israeli tank. That's hardly a metal box waiting to be blown up.

That's my point. Against the latest tanks with active defense, its very difficult to defeat them. The chinese have tanks with active defense, also the Russians, Israelis; the Indians are developing their own system also, that's the way to go. Its cost effective to invest in a $300.00 to 600.000 active defense system for a tank that is at least 4.5 million usd.

If you are talking about older tanks, particularly without active defense, that's another story. Again, none of the major powers are abandoning MBTs, they just keep improving them. Until small, powerful lasers come along, I still see the tank as the king of the battlefield.


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## Aqsuperman

No matter what type of active defence , with a proper ambush , anything can be destroyed , as i said "without proper infantry and IFV cover" , not need for too long , 5 seconds of carelessness and there goes a tank , for a small example , during Operation Protective Edge , the Israeli fielding Merkava MK 4 with Trophy system , at first it can easily destroy incoming firepower from few and dis-organized RPG-29 and AT-14 Hamas anti tank team , even destroy some team entirely , but in later part of the operation , Hamas anti tank team start to set up better arc of fire , hitting Merkava from multiple direction and in high angle , in the end : while no Israeli tank crew got killed , atleast 5 Merkava got immobolized , and that what happen when you put too much hope in active defence . In rough and cramped terrain , its the mobility that going to save you , not the armor , tanks in these terrain act as fire-support , not the vanguard , the lead should always be the IFV and infantry with tank on the back , the enemy wont hit you in just 2 , 4 or 6 rockets , they will hit you with pretty much the same number as their man , which can easily reach 20 troops per tanti tank team , with mobile tandern war head like RPG-30 , can you guarantee a tank survival in that scenario ? and what is the better target than the big butt tank that when destroyed will block the enemy advane ? the M1128 , BMP-3 and B1 Centauro have the tank firepower yet they can move around easier , with good protection from friendly element , they can do just as good , if not better , a tank


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## xesy

Carlosa said:


> I understand your points and yes, there are some ways to stop a tank such as IEDs, etc, and that's mostly in very specific environments, but everything depends on how well protected the tank is; the point that you are not addressing is modern MBTs with active defense, how do you stop tanks like that? No missiles will work in a situation like that, it does not matter if the missiles are from the ground or air or if they try to hit the top of the tank, it will not work because those missiles will get intercepted before they reach the tank and they can come from any angle, it does not matter.
> 
> You can find many examples from the past, but those do not include tanks with active defense; the only case of tanks with active defense used in actual combat was in the last Gaza war and even that Hamas had many resources for anti tank defense, they could not hit a single Israeli tank. That's hardly a metal box waiting to be blown up.
> 
> That's my point. Against the latest tanks with active defense, its very difficult to defeat them. The chinese have tanks with active defense, also the Russians, Israelis; the Indians are developing their own system also, that's the way to go. Its cost effective to invest in a $300.00 to 600.000 active defense system for a tank that is at least 4.5 million usd.
> 
> If you are talking about older tanks, particularly without active defense, that's another story. Again, none of the major powers are abandoning MBTs, they just keep improving them. Until small, powerful lasers come along, I still see the tank as the king of the battlefield.


True like you said active defense system cut down the number of destroyed tanks, yet there are already anti-active defense systems weapon around (for example kinetic sub-sonic round, which is basically a tungsen rod fired with lower than sound speed). Like I said, human has developed too many methods to kill each others yet too few to protect themselves. Most of the time it's "using spear to deflect spear", like those active defense systems. And one second of careless or malfunction can cost the lives of the whole crew.


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> No matter what type of active defence , with a proper ambush , anything can be destroyed , as i said "without proper infantry and IFV cover" , not need for too long , 5 seconds of carelessness and there goes a tank , for a small example , during Operation Protective Edge , the Israeli fielding Merkava MK 4 with Trophy system , at first it can easily destroy incoming firepower from few and dis-organized RPG-29 and AT-14 Hamas anti tank team , even destroy some team entirely , but in later part of the operation , Hamas anti tank team start to set up better arc of fire , hitting Merkava from multiple direction and in high angle , in the end : while no Israeli tank crew got killed , atleast 5 Merkava got immobolized , and that what happen when you put too much hope in active defence . In rough and cramped terrain , its the mobility that going to save you , not the armor , tanks in these terrain act as fire-support , not the vanguard , the lead should always be the IFV and infantry with tank on the back , the enemy wont hit you in just 2 , 4 or 6 rockets , they will hit you with pretty much the same number as their man , which can easily reach 20 troops per tanti tank team , with mobile tandern war head like RPG-30 , can you guarantee a tank survival in that scenario ? and what is the better target than the big butt tank that when destroyed will block the enemy advane ? the M1128 , BMP-3 and B1 Centauro have the tank firepower yet they can move around easier , with good protection from friendly element , they can do just as good , if not better , a tank



I don't know where you got your information about the Gaza war, but no tank was damage even that they were under intense anti tank fire and Hamas had prepared many anti tank ambushes and the terrain was favorable to anti tank warfare. That war proves my point. Read the references below:

*Operation Protective Edge 2014*
*Merkava - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
*No tanks were damaged during Operation Protective Edge*. The Merkava Mk. IVm tanks, fitted with the Trophy Active Protection system, intercepted anti-tank missiles and RPGs on dozens of different occasions during the ground operation.[46] During the operation, the system intercepted anti-tank weapons, primarily Kornets, as well as Metis and RPG-29.[47] By identifying the source of fire, Trophy also allowed tanks to kill the Hamas anti-tank team on one occasion.[48]

Giora Katz, head of Rafael's land division, stated that it was a "breakthrough because it is the first time in military history where an active defense system has proven itself in intense fighting."[49]

401st Brigade (equipped with Merkava Mk. IVm tanks) alone killed between 120-130 Hamas militants during the ground fighting phase of Operation Protective Edge, according to the IDF.[50]
----------------
_Anti-Tank Actions (Gaza war 2014) The Combat Performance of Hamas in the Gaza War of 2014 | Combating Terrorism Center at West Point_
A second key category of Hamas ground action consisted of attacks on Israeli armored vehicles, including tanks, armored personnel carriers (APCs), and armored engineering vehicles. Hamas had specialized anti-tank units equipped with a variety of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) and RPGs. ATGMs reportedly included the Malyutka, Konkurs, Fagot, and Kornet types.[52] RPGs included the RPG-7 and the modern and capable RPG-29.[53] Hamas attempted to engage IDF armor with ATGMs at long range, and with anti-tank teams in close combat.[54] Hamas also used IEDs and mines against IDF armor, and attempted to draw the IDF into prepared “ambushes” where all anti-tank means could be brought to bear.[55]

Hamas was less effective with these tactics. Not a single IDF tank was confirmed destroyed, nor were any Namer heavy APCs lost in combat. Other armored vehicles appeared more vulnerable, including the aging M113 APC, in which seven Israeli troops were killed in an RPG blast.[56] Armored corps personnel were killed and wounded by sniping and mortar fire, but by and large Hamas anti-tank weapons and tactics were not of great effect.[57] This was due to the Trophy anti-ATGM system employed on Merkava Mk 4 tanks,[58] the protection provided by Merkava tanks and Namer APCs,[59] and probably Israeli tactics that employed heavy firepower against ATGM threats.
--------------

Sure you can find specific circumstances of ganging up on a tank, hitting them from many angles, multiple hits at the same time, etc, but come on, those are special circumstances, how often are you going to trap a tank in a situation like that? Sure a tank can only intercept so many missiles at the same time and it will also run out of ammo at some point, but those are not valid reasons to deny the importance of a tank, you can use arguments like that against anything. 

At the end of the day, you can't really defeat a tank formation of modern MBTs with active protection systems in a typical warfare situation, you can only give me very special circumstances that only apply to very limited situations and that's not realistic.


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## Viet

Infantry supporting tanks is ideal and usual but not vice versa. Tanks usually form into brigades/divisions and operate with other fighting troops, supply and logistic. Tanks seldom operate alone. the infantry secures the flanks and suppresses enemy fire targeting the own advancing tanks.

If just using tanks as support for infantrymen, all of the advantages that make tank to a fighting machine will go: speed, firepower, armor and thrust.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Infantry supporting tanks is ideal and usual but not vice versa. Tanks usually form into brigades/divisions and operate with other fighting troops, supply and logistic. Tanks seldom operate alone. the infantry secures the flanks and suppresses enemy fire targeting the own advancing tanks.
> 
> If just using tanks as support for infantrymen, all of the advantages that make tank to a fighting machine will go: speed, firepower, armor and thrust.



You are generally correct, but we are not talking about normal tanks as infantry support, we are talking about old tanks such as T-54 / 55 being used as IFV platforms and that is very normal. Instead of having the infantry or APCs being supported by an IFV such as the BMP-3 that has a 100 mm gun, we are talking about those same units being supported by T-54 / 55s which also happen to have a 100 mm gun. Same role and very similar vehicle, but those old tanks have actually better protection than an IFV and even more if they are upgraded, so what Vietnam is doing is totally correct.

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## T-55

Just a small selection of photos taken in one of the first groups of armed Viet Minh, who fought for independence from the French in Vietnam; ~ 1950 Year(sorry if repost)













sorce 477768 - На первой Индокитайской

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You are generally correct, but we are not talking about normal tanks as infantry support, we are talking about old tanks such as T-54 / 55 being used as IFV platforms and that is very normal. Instead of having the infantry or APCs being supported by an IFV such as the BMP-3 that has a 100 mm gun, we are talking about those same units being supported by T-54 / 55s which also happen to have a 100 mm gun. Same role and very similar vehicle, but those old tanks have actually better protection than an IFV and even more if they are upgraded, so what Vietnam is doing is totally correct.


yes.
against heavy armored chinese tanks such as T99 and the likes, our T54/55 tanks are too weak. they have little chance. no, the old tanks are good against their light armored infantry, or attacking their supply lines. but no more. we have to wait until the T72/90s are inducted into the army, and form the backbone of our tank armies. do you know if our SPG-9 can destroy their tanks? maybe the SPG gun has a chance if firing at close distance.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yes.
> against heavy armored chinese tanks such as T99 and the likes, our T54/55 tanks are too weak. they have little chance. no, the old tanks are good against their light armored infantry, or attacking their supply lines. but no more. do you know if our SPG-9 can destroy their tanks? maybe the SPG gun has a chance if firing at close distance.



I don't think the SPG-9 can do it man, it can probably stop the tank if it hits their wheels, etc, but can't penetrate the armor unless it is against older chinese tanks.

Yes, for infantry support, the T-54 / 55 is good and once upgraded it should be great.

Just imagine, chinese formation coming up with APCs and IFVs which is typical and usually carry 30 mm guns. The upgraded T-55s with an updated fire control system will fire first and blow them up in no time. Its very useful. And with the new ERA blocks they actually have decent protection.

Sure, the chinese will also have anti tank missiles and there will be losses, but still, better to have those upgraded old tanks rather than BMP-1 / 2s. Definitely better firepower and range.



Viet said:


> yes.
> against heavy armored chinese tanks such as T99 and the likes, our T54/55 tanks are too weak. they have little chance. no, the old tanks are good against their light armored infantry, or attacking their supply lines. but no more. we have to wait until the T72/90s are inducted into the army, and form the backbone of our tank armies. do you know if our SPG-9 can destroy their tanks? maybe the SPG gun has a chance if firing at close distance.



If you are chinese mechanized infantry, wouldn't you feel a bit worried about your future if you see these things (T-55AMV) coming right at you?

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## Aqsuperman

In the worst case , we will started fielding our secretly smugged M1 Abrams :v


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## initial_d

Aqsuperman said:


> In the worst case , we will started fielding our secretly smugged M1 Abrams :v


If vietnam want more tank, Vietnam should start negotiating with germany to purchase leopard 2A4 or A6 like we indonesian did. Cheap modern MBT plus we got marder ifv as bonuses

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## Carlosa

initial_d said:


> If vietnam want more tank, Vietnam should start negotiating with germany to purchase leopard 2A4 or A6 like we indonesian did. Cheap modern MBT plus we got marder ifv as bonuses



Those are definitely very cheap when looking at source pricing, but I'm not so sure after the "marketing incentives" get built into the price, he he.


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## Aqsuperman

well the tank price alone is cheap indeed , but the housing , supply and maintance facilities is another thing , the standards are also different to our current Soviet armored vehicle which will require plenty of training...............We may end up with more trouble than before :v


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## Carlosa

initial_d said:


> If vietnam want more tank, Vietnam should start negotiating with germany to purchase leopard 2A4 or A6 like we indonesian did. Cheap modern MBT plus we got marder ifv as bonuses



Actually, I don't think Germany will sell any more of those; they reversed course because of their new situation with Russia, now they want to keep them for themselves.


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## Viet

Tonight, a small german TV broadcaster "rtl nitro" features one of the most expensive and sophisticated Vietnamese martial arts films ever: Blood Letter (vietnamese: *Thiên Mệnh Anh Hùng*), directed by Victor Vu. the plot: Nguyen Vu is the sole survivor of his family who was executed by the empress of Vietnam. Upon discovering that his family may have been framed for crimes they did not commit, he sets out to bring justice and clear his family name.

Why I post it here? because the film brings us a bit back to the history of the Kingdom of Vietnam.

http://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/...-blood-letter-schrift-des-blutes-auf-rtlnitro

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## xesy

For you guys who wonder what a VNese anti-tank unit has to offer in term of anti-vehicle fire power. A team around 5-7 soldiers can work alone or cooperate with other units.


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## Carlosa

Another picture of the ongoing reclamation going on at Big Spratly Island (Truong Sa Long).

Can anybody run this image through a Google image search in order to find the original image without the chinese flag? I'm in China at the moment and I can't do it myself since china bans and blocks everything Google. Thanks.


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## zhkf



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## Carlosa

zhkf said:


> View attachment 240661



Thank you very much, much better quality picture too. 

Here is a version of that pic enlarged and sharpened:

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## xesy

Funny that China labels VN "illegal land reclamation", while they themselves are the biggest law breaker around. It's like they are saying: "Officer, I am a law abiding citizen but I won't go to court no matter what, even if someone is sueing me. The court has no power over me."

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## Carlosa

xesy said:


> Funny that China labels VN "illegal land reclamation", while they themselves are the biggest law breaker around. It's like they are saying: "Officer, I am a law abiding citizen but I won't go to court no matter what, even if someone is sueing me. The court has no power over me."



Just normal chinese behavior. Like Goebbels (Hitler propaganda minister) used to say: "repeat a lie over and over and eventually people will believe you".

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## Viet

nice, the government seems to mean serious, putting money to enlarge our holdings/outposts . just some months ago, this was truong sa lon or big spratly Island.
















































zhkf said:


> View attachment 240661


7 ships on the top of the pic. I expect they will help to increase the size of the Island to at least 5 times.


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## NiceGuy

VN soldiers on the way to go home


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## Viet

on display: some weapons of the VPA. Not all know, but the Army is under the control of a civil central government, and aside from actual armed conflicts and wars, rarely plays a major role in Vietnam.


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## Aqsuperman

a ex-American LST 542 class , once of a few ships that can take on a helicopter


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## Viet

Today, 35 years ago, August 1980, aboard of* Soyuz-37, *a small step for a man, but a huge pride for Vietnam.,

*Phạm Tuân *(born February 14, 1947), a Vietnam Air Force aviator, became the first Vietnamese citizen and the first non-Russian Asian in space. An eight-day mission aboard the Intercosmos 37 rocket alongside the Soviet Union comrade Viktor Vasilyevich Gorbatko. He was awared with the title Hero of the Soviet Union.

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## fadine

Cho một ai đó.


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> Tonight, a small german TV broadcaster "rtl nitro" features one of the most expensive and sophisticated Vietnamese martial arts films ever: Blood Letter (vietnamese: *Thiên Mệnh Anh Hùng*), directed by Victor Vu. the plot: Nguyen Vu is the sole survivor of his family who was executed by the empress of Vietnam. Upon discovering that his family may have been framed for crimes they did not commit, he sets out to bring justice and clear his family name.
> 
> Why I post it here? because the film brings us a bit back to the history of the Kingdom of Vietnam.
> 
> http://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/...-blood-letter-schrift-des-blutes-auf-rtlnitro



It looks too Chinese.


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## anas_nurhafidz

Congratzzz brother 

Ukraine Confirmed that Vietnam will Buy Su-34 Ground Attack

DEFENSE STUDIES: Ukraine Confirmed that Vietnam will Buy Su-34 Ground Attack

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## Viet

Confirmed or not confirmed, that is the $1 million question. from the specs, the jet is suitable for our need in the SC Sea front, defending our outposts and ships, while targeting enemy island installations, surface warships and jets.

*Sukhoi Su-34*

specs: based on Su-27, two seat figher jet, designed primarily for tactical deployment against ground and sea targets, operating in all weather conditions, day and night, empty weight 22.5 tons, max take-off weight 45 tons, combat radius 1,000 km, service ceiling 15,000 m, supersonic speed, wide range of weapon systems.


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## Aqsuperman

The Platypus , the eldery Su-22 attacker will be finally put to secondary line


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## Viet

_I believe this news is not posted yet: the recently signed "United States – Vietnam Joint Vision Statement" that lays the foundation for the bilateral relationship for the times to come. Still much of works need to be done. the next goals are clear: end of arms embargo, establishing strategic partnership, TPP and who knows, at the end of a long journey: a military alliance. The future is bright._

United States – Vietnam Joint Vision Statement | whitehouse.gov







The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
July 07, 2015

*United States – Vietnam Joint Vision Statement*

At the invitation of the Administration of President Barack Obama, His Excellency Nguyen Phu Trong, General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV), paid a historic visit to the United States, the first by a CPV’s General Secretary. On this occasion, which included a meeting between President Barack Obama and General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong at the White House on July 7, 2015, the United States and Vietnam adopted this Joint Vision Statement.

The United States and Vietnam recognize the positive and substantive developments in many areas of cooperation over the past 20 years since the establishment of diplomatic relations, particularly the growth in economic and trade cooperation, cooperation in addressing war legacy issues as well as in science and technology, education, healthcare, environment, response to climate change, defense, security, human rights, and increasing regional and international cooperation on issues of mutual concern.

The United States and Vietnam have made numerous significant accomplishments since the formation of the United States – Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership in 2013. In particular, there has been continued rapid growth in bilateral trade and investment; the entry into force of the “123” Agreement for Cooperation Concerning Peaceful Uses of Nuclear Energy; Vietnam’s endorsement of the Proliferation Security Initiative’s Statement of Interdiction Principles; the easing of U.S. restriction of arms sales; the signing of the Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations; and increased cooperation on regional and multilateral issues. The first-ever dialogues and exchanges between entities associated with the Communist Party of Vietnam on the one hand and institutes associated with the Republican and Democratic Parties in the United States on the other also took place, as envisaged by the 2013 Comprehensive Partnership.

The achievements in United States – Vietnam relations are possible thanks to constructive joint efforts to rise above the past, overcome differences, and promote shared interests looking toward the future.

*Vision for United States – Vietnam Relations: Deepening a Long-Term Partnership*

Looking toward the future of bilateral relations and building on the Comprehensive Partnership, both countries affirm their continued pursuit of a deepened, sustained, and substantive relationship on the basis of respect for the United Nations Charter, international law, and each other’s political systems, independence, sovereignty, and territorial integrity. The two sides are committed to maximizing shared interests and cooperation at both bilateral and multilateral levels, for the benefit of both peoples, contributing to peace, stability, cooperation and prosperity in the Asia – Pacific region and the world.

Strengthening political and diplomatic relations, increasing exchanges at high levels, and expanding bilateral consultations to continue to build trust and improve cooperation remain priorities for both the United States and Vietnam, as are enhancing economic, trade, and investment cooperation and deepening cooperation in science and technology, education, training, health, environment, and law enforcement. The two countries recognize the success of the Vietnamese community in the United States and their many contributions both to the development of the United States and Vietnam and to better United States – Vietnam bilateral relations.

The United States and Vietnam reaffirm continued bilateral cooperation in defense and security, as outlined in the United States – Vietnam Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations. Both countries underscore their commitment to collaborating on, among other issues, addressing non-traditional security threats, cooperation in maritime security, maritime domain awareness, defense trade and information sharing, search and rescue, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, and defense technology exchange. Both countries welcome joint efforts to address war legacy issues, including the humanitarian mission of missing in action (MIA) recovery, the clearance of unexploded ordinance and dioxin remediation, and further assistance for these humanitarian efforts.

The United States and Vietnam expect to work in close coordination with the other negotiating parties to conclude the ambitious and comprehensive Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement as soon as possible and to carry out whatever reforms may be necessary to meet the high standards of the TPP agreement, including as necessary with respect to commitments relating to the 1998 ILO Declaration of Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work. Both countries are committed to a high-quality, balanced TPP agreement that meets the interests of all parties and creates a new long-lasting, mutually beneficial framework for economic and trade cooperation between the United States and Vietnam, while providing a new impetus for regional economic cooperation and contributing to cooperation and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific region. The United States applauds Vietnam’s progress in economic reforms and affirms continued support for and constructive engagement with Vietnam, and the United States notes Vietnam’s interest in pursuing market economy country status.

Both countries pledge continued support for the promotion and protection of human rights and support the maintenance of positive, frank, and constructive dialogue on human rights to improve mutual understanding, and reduce differences. They encourage further cooperation to ensure that everyone, including members of vulnerable groups, regardless of their gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation, and including persons with disabilities, enjoy fully their human rights. The United States welcomes Vietnam’s ongoing efforts to harmonize its laws with its 2013 Constitution and international commitments, which Vietnam undertakes for its comprehensive development, including the promotion and protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms. The United States welcomes Vietnam’s ratification of the Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment and the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and the two countries look forward to technical cooperation in this regard.

The United States and Vietnam expect to accelerate education cooperation, including through institutions like Fulbright University Vietnam and other university partnerships and in the areas of English language collaboration. The promotion of people-to-people exchanges remains important. Both countries expect to consider visa facilitation measures to encourage greater numbers of tourists, students, and business visitors to both countries, and call for relevant U.S. and Vietnamese agencies to conclude as soon as possible a bilateral agreement on the construction of new compounds of their representative missions, including their embassies.

*Increasing Cooperation on Global and Regional Issues*

The United States welcomes Vietnam’s active international integration policy, and Vietnam welcomes the United States’ policy of enhanced cooperation with the Asia-Pacific region. Each country commends the other’s contribution to supporting peace, security, stability and prosperity in the region and the world over. The United States and Vietnam are also committed to strengthening cooperation on regional and global issues of mutual interest and concern.

The two countries are committed to promoting cooperation on sustainable development, addressing traditional and non-traditional security threats, including natural disasters, wildlife trafficking, water security, and pandemics. The two countries are committed to expanding collaboration on peacekeeping operations and climate change and look forward to the 2016 Nuclear Security Summit and to concrete national actions to promote nuclear security. The two countries pledge to expand cooperation on the Global Health Security Agenda (GHSA), including toward achieving the GHSA targets as soon as possible.

The United States and Vietnam are committed to enhancing cooperation in regional fora, such as the Asia – Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Regional Forum, Lower Mekong Initiative, and the East Asia Summit, and recognize the importance of a united and strong ASEAN, ASEAN’s central role in the regional political and security architecture, and the United States – ASEAN Strategic Partnership.

Both countries are concerned about recent developments in the South China Sea that have increased tensions, eroded trust, and threatened to undermine peace, security, and stability. They recognize the imperative of upholding the internationally-recognized freedoms of navigation and overflight; unimpeded lawful commerce, maritime security and safety; refraining from actions that raise tensions; ensuring that all actions and activities taken comply with international law; and rejecting coercion, intimidation, and the use or threat of force. Both countries support the peaceful resolution of disputes in conformity with international law, including as reflected in the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea of 10 December 1982 (UNCLOS), and recognize the importance of fully implementing the Declaration on Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea in its entirety, as well as efforts to conclude the Code of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

*Agreements and Arrangements Reached*

The following agreements and arrangements foster development of United States – Vietnam bilateral relations and form the firm foundation upon which both countries’ future cooperation will continue to build, such as:

- Agreement between the Government of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and the Government of the United States of America for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion and with Respect to Taxes on Income;
- The Memorandum of Understanding on Between the Ministry of National Defense of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and the Department of Defense of the United States of America on United Nations Peacekeeping Cooperation;
- The Memorandum of Understanding signed between the Vietnam Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development of Vietnam and the United States Agency for International Development regarding the Emerging Pandemic Threats Program the Global Health Security Agenda;
- The Vietnam Aviation Safety Technical Assistance Project Agreement between the U.S. Trade and Development Agency and the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam; and
- Vietnam’s granting of the license for the new Fulbright University Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

The only ship in VPN that doesnt use a propeller engine...........well sadly its will be the only ones of it kind


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## Barmaley

anas_nurhafidz said:


> Ukraine Confirmed that Vietnam will Buy Su-34 Ground Attack



What do Ukraine have in common with Su-34? 



Aqsuperman said:


> The Platypus ,



Here we call him a "Duckling"


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## Thao Nguyen

http://vtc.vn/dai-tuong-phung-quang-thanh-bi-sut-vai-kilo-sau-khi-phau-thuat-tai-phap.2.564645.htm


He is fine now


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## Aqsuperman

So there is a ship that is transporting car to Quang Ninh , Helios Highway , at first glance i keep thinking its a Mistral :v http://cdn2.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/2/4/4/2249442.jpg


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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> Đại tướng Phùng Quang Thanh bị sụt vài kilo sau khi phẫu thuật tạ
> 
> 
> 
> He is fine now



Are you aware that he and his son have been accused of being massively corrupted and of stealing a lot of money from the defense budget?


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Are you aware that he and his son have been accused of being massively corrupted and of stealing a lot of money from the defense budget?


no, I just want to prove that some rumor that he's dead is not true


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## Aqsuperman

a minesweeper , these ships will help clearing paths for in and out ship convoy in war


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Are you aware that he and his son have been accused of being massively corrupted and of stealing a lot of money from the defense budget?



Really? do you have any links to this? Who is the General’s son?

Anyway, the UK PM is currently in Viet Nam bringing with him lots of business reps. Hopefully those british weapon companies are there too.

Anything good will come out of this visit @Aqsuperman? any military contract going to be signed?


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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> Really? do you have any links to this? Who is the General’s son?
> 
> Anyway, the UK PM is currently in Viet Nam bringing with him lots of business reps. Hopefully those british weapon companies are there too.
> 
> Anything good will come out of this visit @Aqsuperman? any military contract going to be signed?


Ông Phùng Quang Hải: Dồn lực xây sân bay cho Su-30 | Thủ Tướng Nguyễn Tấn Dũng
his son : Phùng Quang Hải

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Really? do you have any links to this? Who is the General’s son?
> 
> Anyway, the UK PM is currently in Viet Nam bringing with him lots of business reps. Hopefully those british weapon companies are there too.
> 
> Anything good will come out of this visit @Aqsuperman? any military contract going to be signed?



Just something that I used to read, don't remember where. Just google his name together with the word corruption in vietnamese and you'll get the info.
The accusations are very detailed and anyway, what I said is that they have been accused, nothing else. I don't take any particular position other that that, its a subject that is for the vietnamese people to deal with, not me.

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## frequency

Thao Nguyen said:


> no, I just want to prove that some rumor that he's dead is not true


Well, that is unfortunate.

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## black-hawk_101

They should focus on acquiring Russian and NATO origin weapons for its military and keep the Chinese away from their land.

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## Aqsuperman

well i do hope some high-level meeting between us and them will result in several arm deal but for now i say the best realistic outcome are radar technology and some smal upgrade or repair for our US-made weapon , mainly the M113 and maybe some special munition for M101 howitzer , BAE System is quite good at these , while some other like MBDA with a license on Exocet would be needed to support our Sigma

on the side new ,........look like our Party decide to open up some secret afterall :v

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> well i do hope some high-level meeting between us and them will result in several arm deal but for now i say the best realistic outcome are radar technology and some smal upgrade or repair for our US-made weapon , mainly the M113 and maybe some special munition for M101 howitzer , BAE System is quite good at these , while some other like MBDA with a license on Exocet would be needed to support our Sigma
> 
> on the side new ,........look like our Party decide to open up some secret afterall :v



Better pic here





No protection of the side of the wheels?
Its very clear that they took a lot of inspiration from the Israeli T-55M3 upgrade in that turret, they are even using the same loose chain links in the back of the turret.

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## Aqsuperman

Probably some skirt armor will be added afterall , maybe to save up the wear and tear


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## William Hung

I like this upgrade!! Looks like its an indigenous upgrade which means we are saving lots of money.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Better pic here
> View attachment 242214
> 
> 
> No protection of the side of the wheels?
> Its very clear that they took a lot of inspiration from the Israeli T-55M3 upgrade in that turret, they are even using the same loose chain links in the back of the turret.


is it one of our tanks? and what type?
by the way, is this news posted? we have a new patrol boat, based on TT-400: CSB 4035. 54,65m, rộng 9,3m, lượng giãn nước 424 tấn, tốc độ tuần tra 14 hải lý/h; chịu được sóng gió cấp 8, 9; tầm hoạt động ở tốc độ tuần tra 2.500 hải lý.


Sea Platforms

Vietnam Coast Guard inducts TT400TP-class patrol boat into southern command - IHS Jane's 360

*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
28 July 2015











The Vietnamese Coast Guard (Canh Sat Bien Vietnam, or CSBV) has inducted a 54 m patrol vessel into the service's 'Zone 4' command, local media outlets have reported.

_IHS Jane's_ understands that the command, which is based on the island of Phu Quoc, oversees Vietnam's southern territorial waters that include parts of the Gulf of Thailand.

The vessel, with pennant number 4035, was delivered by local firm Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company in June. This is the fifth TT400TP-class vessel in the CSBV fleet. The vessel was received by the 'Zone 4' command on 27 July.

According to _IHS Jane's Fighting Ships_ , the TT400TP class has a top speed of 32 kt and a standard range of 2,500 n miles at 15 kt.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> is it one of our tanks? and what type?.



Yes, its either a T-54 or T-55 upgraded to a T-55AMV standard using a local upgrade.


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## Aqsuperman

Well look like this year will introduce plenty of new stuff to our Ground Force , both armor and infantry


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, its either a T-54 or T-55 upgraded to a T-55AMV standard using a local upgrade.


Looks not too bad. The Israelis just open a military attachee office. Expecting them to assist the upgrade.

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## Aqsuperman

Special BRM variant , common when incoming typhoon or flood


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## Viet

man oh man I wish the russians transfer us with the technology and expertise of building of big destroyers.
destroyer Admiral Panteleyev is seen docking at Tien Sa Port in the central city of Da Nang on July 31, 2015. 163m long, 7,500 tons of steel. configured as submarine hunter. one of the most powerful warships of the russian navy.

8 Rastrub rocket torpedoes
8 Kinzhal SAM launchers (64 missiles)
533-mm torpedoes
AK-100 and AK-630M gun mounts
RBU-6000 antisubmarine rocket launchers
2 Ka-27 helicopters.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> man oh man I wish the russians transfer us with the technology and expertise of building of big destroyers.
> destroyer Admiral Panteleyev is seen docking at Tien Sa Port in the central city of Da Nang on July 31, 2015. 163m long, 7,500 tons of steel. configured as submarine hunter. one of the most powerful warships of the russian navy.
> 
> 8 Rastrub rocket torpedoes
> 8 Kinzhal SAM launchers (64 missiles)
> 533-mm torpedoes
> AK-100 and AK-630M gun mounts
> RBU-6000 antisubmarine rocket launchers
> 2 Ka-27 helicopters.


Right now even Russia still very hard to build destroyer or some big ship like these, they were build under USSR, after the fall of USSR, most of ship building factories belong to Ukraina, even aircraft carrier building factory
Right now i prefer some smaller project like:
Project 1166.1( gerpad) 
Project 2038.0 or 2038.5 (_Steregushchy_-class with Redut SAM- VLS) 
or
Project 22350 (Krivak-class or Talwa class)


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## Aqsuperman

Maintance such ships wont be cheap and considering that our potential "enemy" will surely outnumber us , we seed something small , fast yet have the capablility to deliver heavy punch , preferably frigate or corvette


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## Viet

if we want to become a sea power, then we must think out of the box, become more ambitious, develop something that surprises friends and enemies. our navy lacks of big warships that serve as fleet and aerial defence. life is never easy (what is easy today?), every kid knows big ships costs more than small ones. sure, after the collapse of the USSR, Russia lost the major ship buiding industry to Ukraine (perhaps the reason why Putin annexed the Crime and wants more), but I´m pretty sure the russians have blue prints, Technology and Expertise of building destroyers. all we need is to convince them to give us to build in our shipyards. Even if we can only build the hull, and import the rest such as propulsion, Radar and Missile Systems. the costs of building, operating and maintenance of major warships if we combine under our hand will be reduced to an affordable level.

move forward, never stand still.

built by Halong shipyard, 8 ships for Bahamas.


Damen launches Royal Bahamas Defence Force's transport ship in Vietnam - IHS Jane's 360

*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
30 July 2015






A multi-purpose transport and landing ship being built for the Royal Bahamas Defence Force (RBDF) has been launched at Damen's Halong Shipyard in Vietnam, the company announced in a release on 30 July.

The vessel, which Damen refers to as the RoRo 5612, is being supplied as part of the RBDF's *$232 million* 'Sandy Bottom Project' which includes the procurement of four Damen Stan Patrol 4207 coastal patrol vessels and four Damen Stan Patrol 3007 Sea Axe patrol craft.

The 722-tonne ship, also referred to as the Damen Stan Lander 5612, is equipped with a 25-tonne crane and features a roll-on/roll-off (ro-ro) design to facilitate the movement of cargo.


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Maintance such ships wont be cheap and considering that our potential "enemy" will surely outnumber us , we seed something small , fast yet have the capablility to deliver heavy punch , preferably frigate or corvette



This is what Vietnam needs, project 22160, from the same shipyard that makes the Gepard, 94 meters long, 1700 tons, but much better weapon systems than the Gepard.

8 Klub missiles and a Shtil air defense system.


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## Viet

since 1965 in service: developed by the USSR, medium range S-75 Anti aircraft missile, credit to shooting down many US B-52 strategic bombers during the Vietnam war, continues forming a part of Vietnam air defence network.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> if we want to become a sea power, then we must think out of the box, become more ambitious, develop something that surprises friends and enemies. our navy lacks of big warships that serve as fleet and aerial defence. life is never easy (what is easy today?), every kid knows big ships costs more than small ones. sure, *after the collapse of the USSR, Russia lost the major ship buiding industry to Ukraine (perhaps the reason why Putin annexed the Crime and wants more),* but I´m pretty sure the russians have blue prints, Technology and Expertise of building destroyers. all we need is to convince them to give us to build in our shipyards. Even if we can only build the hull, and import the rest such as propulsion, Radar and Missile Systems. the costs of building, operating and maintenance of major warships if we combine under our hand will be reduced to an affordable level.



The shipbuilding industry of Ukraine was located in Nikolaev, not Crimea.

Black Sea Shipyard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> if we want to become a sea power, then we must think out of the box, become more ambitious, develop something that surprises friends and enemies. our navy lacks of big warships that serve as fleet and aerial defence. life is never easy (what is easy today?), every kid knows big ships costs more than small ones. sure, after the collapse of the USSR, Russia lost the major ship buiding industry to Ukraine



That's wrong statement about shipbuilding industry.
Soviet Destroyers mostly were build in Saint-Petersburg, All nuclear powered submarines in Severodvinsk and in Far East, all design bureaus were in Russia as well. Severodvinsk also can build aircraft carriers.

There is also a new shipbuilding complex under construction in Russia. This complex are capable to build hulls for aircraft carriers and big landing ships.
The Zvezda Shipbuilding Complex will be able to construct tankers with a displacement of up to 350 thousand tons, LNG carriers up to 250,000 cubic meters, ice class vessels, specialized vessels with a launch weight up to 29,000 tons, offshore platform units, and other types of ships.

ZVEZDA SHIPBUILDING COMPLEX | ДЦСС

Ukraine had only one a big shipyard in Nikolaev and now it's pretty much dead.

Anyway, some photos from official ceremony of placing a 3rd and a 4th diesel electric submarines in active service in Vietnamese Navy. ;-) (01.08.2015)





















Lễ thượng cờ hai tàu ngầm Hải Phòng và Khánh Hòa - Tuổi Trẻ Online

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## Aqsuperman

oh may i ask some infomation about Russia ship engine industry ? i heard some info about that due to Ukraine conflict , Kiev refuse to deliver ship engine and thus delay the ship delivery ?

those 100mm look nice


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## Viet

@Barmaley Sorry for my lack of knowledge as well as ignorance. I obviously failed having researched enough bofore posting  Hope Russia-Vietnam defence collaboration continues to blossom. all the best.

some more pics from the destroyer Admiral Panteleyev by Colonel Ahmerov Ildar visiting vietnam.




























accompanied by logistics ship Pechenga






and a tug ship





welcome to vietnam!

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## Viet



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## Viet

Hanoi on July 27, 2015

first followed up meeting after the Party boss visit to the United States.

the US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius reveals in a talk with Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh: Washington will support Hanoi in building facilities at the Vietnam Peacekeeping Center and purchasing equipment for training there. Plus, the US will send trainers to Vietnam to assist the training. further, two US high ranking officials will come next week or soon: US coast guard commander Paul Zukunft and US secretary of state John Kerry.


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## Barmaley

Aqsuperman said:


> oh may i ask some infomation about Russia ship engine industry ? i heard some info about that due to Ukraine conflict , Kiev refuse to deliver ship engine and thus delay the ship delivery ?
> 
> those 100mm look nice



" ship engine" is a wide definition. 

Frigates are using combined gas and diesel propulsion system. So Ukraine produced "turbine part", but they will be replaced by Saturn turbines in near time ( turbines will be delivered in 2017).


This is will delay delivery of frigates of project 11356 mostly, (3 of this ships already have a turbines and only two of them left without them), but i don't thinks its will affect frigates of project 22350.

Saturn producing turbines for civil use, they need some time to adapt them for ships.
Gas turbine power plants

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## Aqsuperman

Oh well thats good to know  

2S3 SPA on manouver , aka Su-152 due to Vietnam classification since Su-100 , with 152mm they are really pack some heavy firepower..........on the side note , they are considerbly younger than our T-54/55 :v


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## Barmaley

Thao Nguyen said:


> Right now even Russia still very hard to build destroyer or some big ship like these,



Current frigates of project 22350 has equal or even bigger fire-power compare to destroyers of _Arleigh Burke-class_

You should know that the size of the ship depend exactly at weapons installed on her. The new Russian destroyers will have S-500 which is will increase air defence capabilities. 

Simply explanation, there is no point to build new bigger ship which is will have the same functions and weapons (only in a bigger number) as the ship of smaller class. ;-)


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## William Hung

Barmaley said:


> Current frigates of project 22350 has equal or even bigger fire-power compare to destroyers of _Arleigh Burke-class_
> 
> You should know that the size of the ship depend exactly at weapons installed on her. The new Russian destroyers will have S-500 which is will increase air defence capabilities.
> 
> Simply explanation, there is no point to build new bigger ship which is will have the same functions and weapons (only in a bigger number) as the ship of smaller class. ;-)




Hey is $36 million USD the real price for Su-34? How much do you think the export price would be?

Any confirmation from Russian source that we are going to buy it like what that Ukrainian source said?


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## VNAF

@Yorozuya : it's a rumour. we should stop discussing about it.


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## William Hung

VNAF said:


> @Yorozuya : it's a rumour. we should stop discussing about it.



Why not? If we can’t discuss about rumours, then there’s not much to talk about here.

The internet says the Su-34 only cost Russia $36 million, thats a damn low price so I’m wondering if that is true.


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## Barmaley

Yorozuya said:


> Hey is $36 million USD the real price for Su-34? How much do you think the export price would be?
> 
> Any confirmation from Russian source that we are going to buy it like what that Ukrainian source said?



Where do you get that price? 
There is no actual price as i know in internet.
The chief of Russian airforce once said in 2014 that the price of Su-34 "is bigger then 1 billion of roubles" and that's all.

Also, the export price and internal prices are different, because many factors including in export price, such as:
-training of pilots
-weapons for the plane
-infrastructure
-simulators 
-and others stuffs.



About rumours, i heard for the first time in 2012 that Vietnamese airforce looking at Su-34 as replacement for their Su-22. 

as far i know, the Vietnamese MoD has a great plans for modernization of its air force, but this is very depends from Vietnamese economic. If everything will be ok, then:

The first step is a four squadrons or 45 Su-27\30 fighter jets should become a main power (defence and attack) in VPA.
The second step is a replacement for Su-22 and the main candidate for this role is a Su-34. 
The third step is a replacement for Mig-21 (after 2020 probably) and here is not clear yet which jet will be chosen. I heard about JAS Gripen, but it's still not clear yet. Maybe Vietnamese posters will tell me

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## Viet

@Barmaley 
can I ask you how russia leadership assesses the actual tension between VN and CN?


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## JaiMin

@Viet

check this article, i think it is the same attitude toward VN and CN relation, supportive and balance, i don't think they play hedging


> *U.S.-Vietnam ties: New challenge for Moscow?*
> 
> Sergey Strokan, Vladimir Mikheev
> 
> 
> 
> Almost half a century has elapsed since the last American GI returned back home from the jungle in Southeast Asia, and U.S. President Barack Obama has made history — marking the 20th anniversary of restoration of diplomatic ties — by welcoming to the White House the chief Vietnamese communist, party leader Nguyen Phu Trong.
> The symbolic gesture of reconciliation comes amid intensified attempts by the U.S. to lure Vietnam into its sphere of influence in Asia at the expense of China and Russia.
> 
> It cannot have been easy for the U.S. administration to roll out the red carpet for Trong, since he is known to belong to the conservative wing in the Vietnamese leadership, which remains reluctant to embrace the former foe.
> 
> The revisionists among Washington’s foreign policy-makers have gained the upper hand for several reasons, with thenumber one consideration being the formation of a loose pro-American alliance of South East Asian nations. The second factor is the $35 billion turnover which has propelled Vietnam to the status of the United States’ largest trade partner in the region, with trade expected to reach $57 billion by 2020.
> 
> The third element is U.S. President Barack Obama’s intent to include Vietnam in the planned Trans-Pacific Partnership, a U.S.-sponsored organization that would require all member states to align themselves with American standards and business practices.
> 
> In the case of Vietnam, it would demand that Hanoi curtail the dirigisme of the government in running the economy in return for access to the U.S. domestic market for locally manufactured shoes and clothing. Trong’s visit to Washington has not produced any tangible results in this respect, but the first step has been taken.
> 
> Does this mark a dramatic new trajectory in U.S. foreign policy, or is it aimed only at achieving a breakthrough in putting together the Trans-Pacific Partnership? Is there a secret agenda? Troika Report approached *Dr. Dmitry Mosyakov, deputy director of the Institute of Oriental Studies at the Russian Academy of Sciences, and director of the Center for South East Asia, Australia and Oceania*, and here is what he had to say:
> 
> _“The symbolism of the U.S. president’s welcome to Vietnam’s Communist leader cannot be underestimated given the continuous U.S. accusations of human rights violations in Vietnam and previous statements that Washington did not accept the legitimacy of communist rule in this country. This is a clear signal of the formal legitimization by the United States of communist power in Vietnam._
> 
> _“The United States’ strategic goal is to influence the foreign policy alignment of Vietnam, which since the early 1990s has had a free hand in choosing friends and allies while remaining essentially neutral. It falls within the framework of the U.S. strategy of encircling China with countries with various level of alignment with Washington. We see U.S. troops are to be once again stationed in the Philippines. We see Burma as target of intensive U.S. interest. The crown prize would be Vietnam, if it is forced to abandon its balanced foreign policy orientation.”_
> 
> The American media used Barack Obama’s long-term strategy to justify Washington’s rationale in welcoming Comrade Trong to the White House. The underlying concept is the same as at the core of the general focus on Asia currently being witnessed in U.S. foreign policy, and that is “to balance China’s growing economic, military and political clout.”
> 
> Is there a Russian angle to Washington’s courting of Vietnam? The question was answered by Dr. Mosyakov:
> 
> _“Definitely. Russo-Vietnamese relations are unique in some sense. They are based on trust and mutual sympathy, as well as on contemporary cooperation in key areas: nuclear power generation, oil and gas production, military procurement, infrastructure projects, tourism, etc. Recently, Vietnam and Russia established a free trade zone. Now, the U.S. is attempting to diminish this partnership and present the alliance with the U.S. as the best and only option.”_
> 
> Whether or not Barack Obama will succeed in his ultimate goal to bring Vietnam on board remains conditional on at least three elements.
> 
> Firstly, Vietnam’s communist leadership should resign itself to the idea of the supreme expediency of “opening up its political system,” as demanded by the United States, in exchange for a steady flow of revenues from shoe and clothing exports.
> 
> Secondly, both access to the U.S. market and the hint of a “security umbrella” to be offered by Obama’s administration in the face of Beijing’s assertiveness in the South China Sea must overweigh the benefits of trade and economic cooperation with the world’s leader in GDP growth.
> 
> Thirdly, Obama’s plan could work if China and Russia remain transfixed on the sidelines and are unable to match Washington’s offers with anything as substantial.
> 
> In any case, the extraordinary visit by Vietnam’s ideological head to the country where not so long ago it was fashionable among some ultra-conservatives to chant “Better dead than red” marks a watershed in U.S. foreign policy. By any count, it is a coup of its own, and shows the limitless nature of Washington’s flexibility.

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## William Hung

@JaiMin I forgot to ask before, are you member of nghiencuuquocte? (the translator team)



Barmaley said:


> Where do you get that price?
> There is no actual price as i know in internet.
> The chief of Russian airforce once said in 2014 that the price of Su-34 "is bigger then 1 billion of roubles" and that's all.
> 
> Also, the export price and internal prices are different, because many factors including in export price, such as:
> -training of pilots
> -weapons for the plane
> -infrastructure
> -simulators
> -and others stuffs.
> 
> 
> 
> About rumours, i heard for the first time in 2012 that Vietnamese airforce looking at Su-34 as replacement for their Su-22.
> 
> as far i know, the Vietnamese MoD has a great plans for modernization of its air force, but this is very depends from Vietnamese economic. If everything will be ok, then:
> 
> The first step is a four squadrons or 45 Su-27\30 fighter jets should become a main power (defence and attack) in VPA.
> The second step is a replacement for Su-22 and the main candidate for this role is a Su-34.
> The third step is a replacement for Mig-21 (after 2020 probably) and here is not clear yet which jet will be chosen. I heard about JAS Gripen, but it's still not clear yet. Maybe Vietnamese posters will tell me



When I said from the internet, I mean western source like this:

Su-34/Su-32FN Bomber Russia

Russia’s SU-32/34 Long-Range Strike Fighters


If you google Su-34 $36 million, then you will see many other website (mostly western) saying the same thing. It seems a bit low thats why I asked.

As for this new Ukrainian source, I think they are just copying from the old 2012 rumour report that you’ve mentioned. They even said Mig-21 can get replaced by Jas-39 like what you’ve read, so I dont think this Ukrainian source is saying anything new, they are just recycling old rumours.


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## William Hung

@JaiMin

Oh I see. I asked because I saw you once mentioned their forum. But that forum does not have many members other than the mods and admins, so I thought you are one of them.

Are you studying in politics/international relations?

Better to delete your previous post. Its not good to mention personal details about your family member, especially in a hostile forum like this one.


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## JaiMin

ya the nghiencuuquocte itself was not many mem, mostly just translator and post all article that they find useful, but the blog was many comment though and also got link to original article and u can find useful info thier

No, i was not, it is becuase sometimes my father want me help him translate some of his own document or document from other professor

thank you for mention


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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> Current *frigates *of project 22350 has equal or even bigger fire-power compare to destroyers of _Arleigh Burke-class_
> 
> You should know that the size of the ship depend exactly at weapons installed on her. The new Russian destroyers will have S-500 which is will increase air defence capabilities.
> 
> Simply explanation, there is no point to build new bigger ship which is will have the same functions and weapons (only in a bigger number) as the ship of smaller class. ;-)


only frigates no destroyers for russia navy?

I would like to see you assist Vietnam in building of frigates and destroyers. at current state, our surface warships will have hard times if facing chinese warships in open sea. Hit and run, yes, ambush yes, but in direct encounter, the Molynia won´t survice a hit of antiship missile. the Gepard may be able to swallow two. that is too little. the Gepard has air defence capacity, but I´m not too sure if the Palma system can defeat incoming chinese antiship missiles. maybe yes, maybe no. we lack of destroyers serving as command ship, as fleet and aerial defence. I know my comrades here have different opinion, but I stand for my opinion.

we need bigger and more powerful warships than the Gepards.


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## Aqsuperman

Through a Thailandball comic i just discover that Chinese intend to sell submarine to thailand :v Navy chooses Chinese-made submarines | Bangkok Post: news


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## JaiMin

Yorozuya said:


> @JaiMin
> 
> Yea they translate some good articles, although they mostly translate open access public articles. They should translate more academic ones that are subscription only, some of those are more detailed and interesting. Its unfortunate that many Vietnamese are not interested in those type of forum and discussion topic. They are more interested in discussing nonsense on facebook.
> 
> OK I have to go. Nice meeting you.



@Yorozuya

They have academic one though, got origional link and translate ver.

I'm quite like these one "
* “Spoiled Guests or Dedicated Patriots? The Chinese in North Vietnam, 1954–1978” by Xiaorong Han*
*"The development of civil society and dynamics of governance in Vietnam’s one party rule" by Bui Hai Thiem*
*"You Can Come Home Again: Narratives of Home and Belonging among Second-Generation Việt Kiều in Vietnam" by Priscilla Koh*
*"Regime Critics: Democratization Advocates in Vietnam, 1990s–2014 by Benedict J. Tria Kerkvliet"*
*"Why American hate Obama TPP trade deal by Richard Trumka"*
*"How Will the TPP Impact Vietnam’s “Nonmarket Economy” Designation? By K. William Watson*

*"In search of a post socialist model of governmentality" by Bui Hai Thiem"*

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Through a Thailandball comic i just discover that Chinese intend to sell submarine to thailand :v Navy chooses Chinese-made submarines | Bangkok Post: news



Nothing new, its frozen at this point (after Washington complained).



Viet said:


> only frigates no destroyers for russia navy?
> 
> I would like to see you assist Vietnam in building of frigates and destroyers. at current state, our surface warships will have hard times if facing chinese warships in open sea. Hit and run, yes, ambush yes, but in direct encounter, the Molynia won´t survice a hit of antiship missile. the Gepard may be able to swallow two. that is too little. the Gepard has air defence capacity, but I´m not too sure if the Palma system can defeat incoming chinese antiship missiles. maybe yes, maybe no. we lack of destroyers serving as command ship, as fleet and aerial defence. I know my comrades here have different opinion, but I stand for my opinion.
> 
> we need bigger and more powerful warships than the Gepards.



Right now Russia only makes surface warships up to 4000 tons, nothing bigger at this point, but they are working on the design of a big destroyer (more like a cruiser actually) and a big aircraft carrier as well as replacements for the Mistral ships, but all those are just at the design stage for now.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Right now Russia only makes surface warships up to 4000 tons, nothing bigger at this point, but *they are working on the design of a big destroyer* (more like a cruiser actually) and a big aircraft carrier as well as replacements for the Mistral ships, but all those are just at the design stage for now.


Do I miss something or why the Navy does not ask them for joint development of warships?


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## Viet

as everyone can see below the defence minister and General Phung Quang Thanh is alive, return from his cancer treatment in a Paris hospital, back to the army headquarter. Maybe it is time to stop smoking as some rumours say he is a heavy smoker?

http://dalje.com/en-world/vietnam-defence-minister-dies-in-france-after-cancer-treatment/550644

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Do I miss something or why the Navy does not ask them for joint development of warships?



That destroyer that they are working on is a monster man, bigger than a AEGIS destroyer and with a lot more missiles and very expensive. It will take a while until it gets deployed, Vietnam needs something adequate for its circumstances and much sooner. It remains to be seem if they are willing to export it, but in my opinion is way beyond what Vietnam needs and can afford.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That destroyer that they are working on is a monster man, bigger than a AEGIS destroyer and with a lot more missiles and very expensive. It will take a while until it gets deployed, Vietnam needs something adequate for its circumstances and much sooner. It remains to be seem if they are willing to export it, but in my opinion is way beyond what Vietnam needs and can afford.


ha ha ha... I don´t mean of such destroyers. out of our reach, of course. I mean affordable 4,000-5,000 tons destroyers.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ha ha ha... I don´t mean of such destroyers. out of our reach, of course. I mean affordable 4,000-5,000 tons destroyers.



Well, my guess on that is as good as yours. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to surface ships, I think Vietnam is going in the wrong direction buying ineffective ships that will not make any difference. 

The Russians got good 4000 ton frigates with the firepower of a small destroyer, yet, Vietnam buys Gepards and Sigmas. The ship that best fits the bill so far is actually the Molniya, but its a 40 year old design when everybody else is building modern stealth ships. Go figure.


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## William Hung

JaiMin said:


> @Yorozuya
> 
> They have academic one though, got origional link and translate ver.
> 
> I'm quite like these one "
> * “Spoiled Guests or Dedicated Patriots? The Chinese in North Vietnam, 1954–1978” by Xiaorong Han*
> *"The development of civil society and dynamics of governance in Vietnam’s one party rule" by Bui Hai Thiem*
> *"You Can Come Home Again: Narratives of Home and Belonging among Second-Generation Việt Kiều in Vietnam" by Priscilla Koh*
> *"Regime Critics: Democratization Advocates in Vietnam, 1990s–2014 by Benedict J. Tria Kerkvliet"*
> *"Why American hate Obama TPP trade deal by Richard Trumka"*
> *"How Will the TPP Impact Vietnam’s “Nonmarket Economy” Designation? By K. William Watson*
> 
> *"In search of a post socialist mode of governmentality" by Bui Hai Thiem"*



Thanks for this, I will read more of it. There’s many good articles on that blog that I haven’t read.

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## JaiMin

Yorozuya said:


> Thanks for this, I will read more of it. There’s many good articles on that blog that I haven’t read.



Take your time, those title i post are PDF, not article though, there are many article related to World situation and solution quite nice in that forum. Also the date of event and result

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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> Well, my guess on that is as good as yours. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to surface ships, I think Vietnam is going in the wrong direction buying ineffective ships that will not make any difference.
> 
> The Russians got good 4000 ton frigates with the firepower of a small destroyer, yet, Vietnam buys Gepards and Sigmas. The ship that best fits the bill so far is actually the Molniya, but its a 40 year old design when everybody else is building modern stealth ships. Go figure.



According to my knowledge. It is not very difficult for Vietnam to achieve what the American can do. To revolutionize Vietnamese weaponry, technology, etc, Vietnam needs manufacturing capabilities. I'm talking about sophisticated, high accuracy machining, etc. Vietnam already mastered the soft skills for programming. They can apply that skill and experience to create AI and robotics. Vietnam needs to master the sky. Also, master the mechanical properties of materials in nature. As well as understanding nano structure of materials. Understanding electro magnetic fields and High energy lazer. Understanding Quantum physics, and physics in general. Technologies are already available but it does take a person to devote his/her time and dedication into learning and practicing the skill required to achieve what American and Japan has achieved. Ultimately, it is the tools that can make these possibles. Just need the right tool to do the job. I enjoy being an Electro-Mechanical engineer.


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## William Hung

frequency said:


> According to my knowledge. It is not very difficult for Vietnam to achieve what the American can do. To revolutionize Vietnamese weaponry, technology, etc, Vietnam needs manufacturing capabilities. I'm talking about sophisticated, high accuracy machining, etc. Vietnam already mastered the soft skills for programming. They can apply that skill and experience to create AI and robotics. Vietnam needs to master the sky. Also, master the mechanical properties of materials in nature. As well as understanding nano structure of materials. Understanding electro magnetic fields and High energy lazer. Understanding Quantum physics, and physics in general. Technologies are already available but it does take a person to devote his/her time and dedication into learning and practicing the skill required to achieve what American and Japan has achieved. Ultimately, it is the tools that can make these possibles. Just need the right tool to do the job. I enjoy being an Electro-Mechanical engineer.



What Viet Nam need to do is to encourage and allow private companies to start up the military industry, just like how most advanced country with a strong military industry are doing it.

Even in Cambodia, a farmer has managed to build amored vehicles for them. Vietnam is wasting a lot of talents if we only allow a small number of state owned company to be involved in the military industry. They also become lazy if they don’t have competition.

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## frequency

Yorozuya said:


> What Viet Nam need to do is to encourage and allow private companies to start up the military industry, just like how most advanced country with a strong military industry are doing it.
> 
> Even in Cambodia, a farmer has managed to build amored vehicles for them. Vietnam is wasting a lot of talents if we only allow a small number of state owned company to be involved in the military industry. They also become lazy if they don’t have competition.



Say hello to quantum stealth camouflage.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, my guess on that is as good as yours. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to surface ships, I think Vietnam is going in the wrong direction buying ineffective ships that will not make any difference.
> 
> The Russians got good 4000 ton frigates with the firepower of a small destroyer, yet, Vietnam buys Gepards and Sigmas. The ship that best fits the bill so far is actually the Molniya, but its a 40 year old design when everybody else is building modern stealth ships. Go figure.


what do you think of this: we adopt the strategy of germany how its navy fought during the world war 1 and 2 dealing with a far superior british naval fleet. the germans knew, that they had little chance of winning in direct encounter at open sea. not only, the british had more warships than the germans and the french combined, but a long naval tradition. heroic fights.

germany decided to build a masive submarine fleet, and a fleet of armored destroyers such as the panzerschiff graf spee. the warship was small, fast, heavy armed and most importantly thick steel armored, that made the ship withstand and swallow enemy fire. what we need is building armored destroyers that can attack chinese escort fleet. a multi role armored destroyer, packed with land attack missiles and other gadgets, serving as command ship, providing airdefence for the Molynia and Gepard´s.

panzerschiff graf spee

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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> What Viet Nam need to do is to encourage and allow private companies to start up the military industry, just like how most advanced country with a strong military industry are doing it.
> 
> Even in Cambodia, *a farmer* has managed to build amored vehicles for them. Vietnam is wasting a lot of talents if we only allow a small number of state owned company to be involved in the military industry. They also become lazy if they don’t have competition.


a farmer ????????
LOL 
you just lost because the journalist's propaganda
he's not a farmer, he is chief engineer, vice director of a company about mechanic
Trần Quốc Hải – Wikipedia tiếng Việt


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## JaiMin

Hey guy i heard we going to buy Radar TRML-3D by Airbus Defense and Space developed, is that true, can anyone confirm


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## William Hung

Thao Nguyen said:


> a farmer ????????
> LOL
> you just lost because the journalist's propaganda
> he's not a farmer, he is chief engineer, vice director of a company about mechanic
> Trần Quốc Hải – Wikipedia tiếng Việt



Huh what do you mean lost? Was I competing for something?

A farmer is a joke everyone is calling him...you know, Trần Hải Lúa.

Btw, what do you mean I lost?



JaiMin said:


> Hey guy i heard we going to buy Radar TRML-3D by Airbus Defense and Space developed, is that true, can anyone confirm



I dont know you need to ask @Aqsuperman, I think he is part of the group that are trolling the journalists to make them post wrong information like this airbus radar. I think they are laughing about it because it got published by soha.

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## Viet

hey bro how about stopping infighting and showing more relax.

*
Vietnam Damen Sông Cấm shipyard*
located in Haiphong, facilities at the 42-hectare site, works to enlarging of capacity under way. the yard can assemble up to 50 hulls and outfit 80 vessels per year.








the shipyard fullfills a contract of building 12 landing ships for Venezuela: Stan Lander 5612 class, length 57,27 m, wide 12,13 m, speed 10,40 knots (19,3 km/h), weight 740 tons. signed at Feb, 2014, contract worth $102,1 millions.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> what do you think of this: we adopt the strategy of germany how its navy fought during the world war 1 and 2 dealing with a far superior british naval fleet. the germans knew, that they had little chance of winning in direct encounter at open sea. not only, the british had more warships than the germans and the french combined, but a long naval tradition. heroic fights.
> 
> germany decided to build a masive submarine fleet, and a fleet of armored destroyers such as the panzerschiff graf spee. the warship was small, fast, heavy armed and most importantly thick steel armored, that made the ship withstand and swallow enemy fire. what we need is building armored destroyers that can attack chinese escort fleet. a multi role armored destroyer, packed with land attack missiles and other gadgets, serving as command ship, providing airdefence for the Molynia and Gepard´s.
> 
> panzerschiff graf spee



The way I see that strategy applied to Vietnam is also a lot of submarines and those 4000 ton frigates with strong weapon systems and of course the small boats for the wolf pack attack groups such as Molniya



Yorozuya said:


> What Viet Nam need to do is to encourage and allow private companies to start up the military industry, just like how most advanced country with a strong military industry are doing it.
> 
> Even in Cambodia, a farmer has managed to build amored vehicles for them. Vietnam is wasting a lot of talents if we only allow a small number of state owned company to be involved in the military industry. They also become lazy if they don’t have competition.



I agree and to concentrate the work on companies like Viettel which are efficient, have a big time talent pool and will do the project as a business as opposite to those small companies set up by the defense ministry which are just to serve their corruption needs


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## Aqsuperman

Im a part of what group ?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> hey bro how about stopping infighting and showing more relax.
> 
> *
> Vietnam Damen Sông Cấm shipyard*
> located in Haiphong, facilities at the 42-hectare site, works to enlarging of capacity under way. the yard can assemble up to 50 hulls and outfit 80 vessels per year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the shipyard fullfills a contract of building 12 landing ships for Venezuela: Stan Lander 5612 class, length 57,27 m, wide 12,13 m, speed 10,40 knots (19,3 km/h), weight 740 tons. signed at Feb, 2014, contract worth $102,1 millions.



Nice man, in that place they can make a larger version of the Sigma with nice weapon systems from Russia and Israel integrated into that ship (Barak 8, Klub, etc), that would be the equivalent of the Russian 4000 ton frigates.



JaiMin said:


> Take your time, those title i post are PDF, not article though, there are many article related to World situation and solution quite nice in that forum. Also the date of event and result



Xin chao amigo, is that blog in English or Vietnamese? Sounds very interesting.



Yorozuya said:


> I dont know you need to ask @Aqsuperman, I think he is part of the group that are trolling the journalists to make them post wrong information like this airbus radar. I think they are laughing about it because it got published by soha.



Man, this SOHA people are really something else, can't trust anything they say. 

They got me one time when they said: "according to a SIPRI report Vietnam ordered......... bla bla bla and it was all bullshit. I posted the info at the MP forum and I got blasted by the SIPRI people. 

They look for any hint of anything in the forums and then they make articles like if its the real thing. They make money with those articles so they are always looking for hints and then they make it look like its real.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> hey bro how about stopping infighting and showing more relax.
> 
> *
> Vietnam Damen Sông Cấm shipyard*
> located in Haiphong, facilities at the 42-hectare site, works to enlarging of capacity under way. the yard can assemble up to 50 hulls and outfit 80 vessels per year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the shipyard fullfills a contract of building 12 landing ships for Venezuela: Stan Lander 5612 class, length 57,27 m, wide 12,13 m, speed 10,40 knots (19,3 km/h), weight 740 tons. signed at Feb, 2014, contract worth $102,1 millions.



Im not fighting my friend. I was just giving an opinion, then someone said I “lost” when I wasn’t sure what I was competing for.



Aqsuperman said:


> Im a part of what group ?



Read carlosa’s comment. That sipri list was created by that guy named Triumf. I thought you were buddies with him and some other guys in another forum who likes to troll the journalists. I was wrong then.



Carlosa said:


> Xin chao amigo, is that blog in English or Vietnamese? Sounds very interesting.



Its a place with articles mainly on geopolitics, world relations, etc. Mostly for Vietnamese research students, academics, etc.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Its a place with articles mainly on geopolitics, world relations, etc. Mostly for Vietnamese research students, academics, etc.



Interesting, so I guess is all in vietnamese right? They translate the articles from English and post them there only in vietnamese, correct?


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## JaiMin

Carlosa said:


> Interesting, so I guess is all in vietnamese right? They translate the articles from English and post them there only in vietnamese, correct?


ya with a source provided and some international useful PDF, but mostly related to Vietnam

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Interesting, so I guess is all in vietnamese right? They translate the articles from English and post them there only in vietnamese, correct?



Well, they do know English since their goal is to translate articles and docs into Vietnamese so I guess you can join their forum and communicate in English with them if you are interested. Ask @JaiMin he knows more about it. Just dont say you are from PDF lol.

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## Carlosa

JaiMin said:


> ya with a source provided and some international useful PDF, but mostly related to Vietnam



Nice, can I have the link to the site?


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## JaiMin

@Carlosa
U can read vietnamese right Carlosa


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## William Hung

Carlosa can’t read Vietnamese, he is a Spanish with a Vietnamese family.

BTW @Carlosa, ask @cnleio how to set up a VPN to access youtube, gmail, etc in China. You are having difficulty how to use a VPN?

@cnleio, can you help him?

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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> The Russians got good 4000 ton frigates


Official normal displacement of frigate of project 22350 is 4500tones, but some experts says it's actually somewhere in between 5000-5500.
It's wrong to judge about ship displacement by photo, but still 
Here is, the frigate (on the left) close to destroyer of "Sovremeny-class" which is has normal displacement 6500 tonnes.







Viet said:


> Do I miss something or why the Navy does not ask them for joint development of warships?



I'm honestly think that Vietnam doesn't really need the ships bigger that 3000tones, at this moment at least.

In my opinion the best solution for Vietnam could be of project 20386 (the fuhrer development of project 20380). Displacement 2700 tones













Thanks to modular design you can quickly change the weapons for attack mission, or anti-submarine mission, anti-mines, etc.













This is corvette was chosen by the Russian Navy and will be laid down in the end of 2015 or in the early 2016. Also, the weapons more likely will be changed from Ak-630 to Pantsir-M and "Uran" missiles to "UKSK".

Vietnam could join to this project and start to build them by licence on their shipyards, 4-8 ships in service of such class could be a serious threat.

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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> Official normal displacement of frigate of project 22350 is 4500tones, but some experts says it's actually somewhere in between 5000-5500.
> It's wrong to judge about ship displacement by photo, but still
> Here is, the frigate (on the left) close to destroyer of "Sovremeny-class" which is has normal displacement 6500 tonnes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm honestly think that Vietnam doesn't really need the ships bigger that 3000tones, at this moment at least.
> 
> In my opinion the best solution for Vietnam could be of project 20386 (the fuhrer development of project 20380). Displacement 2700 tones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to modular design you can quickly change the weapons for attack mission, or anti-submarine mission, anti-mines, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is corvette was chosen by the Russian Navy and will be laid down in the end of 2015 or in the early 2016. Also, the weapons more likely will be changed from Ak-630 to Pantsir-M and "Uran" missiles to "UKSK".
> 
> Vietnam could join to this project and start to build them by licence on their shipyards, 4-8 ships in service of such class could be a serious threat.



I think you are right, that's a nice ship with Pantsir-M and a UKSK VLS for Klub / Yakhont missiles.


----------



## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> Official normal displacement of frigate of project 22350 is 4500tones, but some experts says it's actually somewhere in between 5000-5500.
> It's wrong to judge about ship displacement by photo, but still
> Here is, the frigate (on the left) close to destroyer of "Sovremeny-class" which is has normal displacement 6500 tonnes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm honestly think that Vietnam doesn't really need the ships bigger that 3000tones, at this moment at least.
> 
> In my opinion the best solution for Vietnam could be of project 20386 (the fuhrer development of project 20380). Displacement 2700 tones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to modular design you can quickly change the weapons for attack mission, or anti-submarine mission, anti-mines, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is corvette was chosen by the Russian Navy and will be laid down in the end of 2015 or in the early 2016. Also, the weapons more likely will be changed from Ak-630 to Pantsir-M and "Uran" missiles to "UKSK".
> 
> Vietnam could join to this project and start to build them by licence on their shipyards, 4-8 ships in service of such class could be a serious threat.



I think you are right, that's a nice ship with Pantsir-M and a UKSK VLS for Klub / Yakhont missiles.

The problem that I see with Vietnam is that they keep choosing ships with very weak air defense (Palma) and simple anti ship missiles (KH-35) and that will not do anything against superior chinese naval forces. Those ships are only good to show the flag during peacetime.

Still, I think Vietnam needs a few heavy frigates with powerful medium range air defense systems. Any conflict in SCS will have a very dense missile environment with missile saturation attacks being the norm.



Yorozuya said:


> Carlosa can’t read Vietnamese, he is a Spanish with a Vietnamese family.
> 
> BTW @Carlosa, ask @cnleio how to set up a VPN to access youtube, gmail, etc in China. You are having difficulty how to use a VPN?
> 
> @cnleio, can you help him?



Yeah, I have tried 3 different systems so far and no good results, this is giving me a headache, this damn chinese firewall.


----------



## Carlosa

JaiMin said:


> @Carlosa
> U can read vietnamese right Carlosa



Just a few words, etc, but I can read the original source of those articles and the pdf articles if in English.


----------



## Carlosa

*For Russia, The Path To Laos Runs Through Vietnam*
2146 ViewsAugust 04, 2015 
*by Andrew Kroybko*

Southeast Asia is one of the economic powerhouses of the world, and its prized position in the global economy is only expected to grow in the coming future. This is why all the Great Powers are racing to (re)develop and reinforce their ties with the region, Russia being foremost among them. Ever since the onset of the New Cold War, Russia has been compelled to rapidly reorient its strategic focus eastward after witnessing firsthand how flimsy its friendship with the West really was. While most commentators rightfully draw attention to Russia’s growing full-spectrum relations with China , many of them neglect the fact that the country isn’t its sole partner or interest in the Asia-Pacific. Vietnam also forms a key lynchpin of Russia’s strategy there, and it’s through adroitly managing its social assets in the country that Russia can make its presence felt in the heartland of mainland ASEAN, Laos.

*Land-Linking Laos*

The author wrote an in-depth expose back in April about the strategic importance of Laos in forming the principal conduit of China’s ASEAN Silk Road , and the analysis holds just as firm today as it did then. The centrally positioned country connects to all the other mainland members of ASEAN and accordingly provides Beijing with an opening to extend its influence throughout the rest of the region. Not only is the country becoming land-linked through its pivotal transit relationship with China, however, but it’s also capitalizing on its historical ties with Vietnam to draw in trade and investment from the east. In fact, Vientiane and Hanoi just signed a border trade agreement at the end of last month stipulating that “import tax rates for goods made in Vietnam and Laos, as well as various products made by Vietnamese investors in Laos, will be reduced to zero.” What this basically means is that tariffs will be eliminated between both countries and a de-facto free trade zone will take its place. This is extremely beneficial for both parties, but interestingly also opens up some exciting opportunities that Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union could utilize in the coming future.

*Russia’s ASEAN Pivot*

In order to fully understand how Vietnam and Laos’ de-facto forthcoming free trade agreement can directly benefit Russia and appreciate the way in which this serendipitously came to be, a concise review of the country’s ASEAN pivot needs to be commenced first:

Vietnam:

Moscow has had privileged ties with Hanoi ever since the US War on Vietnam, and despite undergoing a rough patch of relative neglect during the 1990s, they still remained among Russia’s strongest post-Cold War relationships (alongside the one with Syria ). The reason that bilateral ties managed to survive that troubling decade is because of the tourism and arms trade sectors that continued to thrive during the period, and correspondingly formed the basis for exploring the expansion of trade links even further in the past years. The result of this has been the signing of the Vietnam-Eurasian Union free trade agreementthat symbolically (and substantially) shows that Russia’s Asian Pivot is about more than just China, and that Moscow has intentions to establish a more robust presence in ASEAN.

Thailand:

After Vietnam, ties with Thailand have also been on the upswing, especially since the change of government last year that swept Yingluck Shinawatra out of power. Prayut Chan-o-cha, the new leader of Thailand, has been much more pragmatic than his predecessor and exceptionally more eager to diversify his country’s partnerships. During Prime Minister Medvedev’s visit to the country in April, the two spoke about the possibility of a free trade agreement between the Southeast Asian state and the Eurasian Union, which set the stage for Trade and Industry Minister Denis Manturov’s recent announcement that Thailand’s formal application for such is expected to be submitted by year’s end. Taken together with the agreement already concluded with Vietnam, Russia would then be in a free trade area with the two largest mainland ASEAN economies and become anchored to Indochina’s most economically productive coastland areas.

Myanmar:

Somewhat unexpectedly to some, Russia signaled at the Saint Petersburg International Economic Forum in June that it plans to become a major actor in Myanmar, signing a nuclear energy cooperation agreement with the country and even giving its Vice President the honor of presenting a keynote plenary speech alongside President Putin. More than likely, the country’s role has been elevated in the view of Russian diplomacy due to its enormous economic potential (despite the astounding political risks ), and it’s probable that Moscow envisions adding Naypyidaw to its list of free trade partners sometime in the future. If this comes to pass, alongside the clinching of a free trade agreement with Thailand, then it’s very probable that Russia could attempt to seal a free trade deal with all of ASEAN, or at the very least, the last two remaining mainland states, Cambodia and Laos.

* * *

Doing so with Cambodia wouldn’t be that difficult, since China’s entrenched interests in the new SCO dialogue partner and its implicit global cooperation with Moscow via the Russian-Chinese Strategic Partnership would see to it that Phnom Penh takes the natural and swift decision in this direction when the appropriate time arrives. As regards Laos, it will be described in the next section how the country is about to be in a quasi-free trade zone with Russia, whether or not this is even recognized at the moment by either side. To sum it all up beforehand, though, the reader should understand that Russia’s ultimate goal in ASEAN is to enter into a bloc-to-bloc free trade area between it and the Eurasian Union, which would then see the employment of China’s land and maritime Silk Road networks to facilitate the transit of goods between both sides. Under this vision, all sides stand to achieve major benefits, and as for Russia, one of the principal ones would be the extension of its Eurasian reach to the furthest extremity points of the supercontinent.

*Getting Lucky In Laos*

Having acquired a brief understanding of Russia’s grand strategy towards ASEAN, it’s now possible for the reader to adequately follow how Russia’s forthcoming quasi-free trade zone with Laos came to be. Vietnam, as it was initially mentioned, signed a border trade agreement with its neighbor that will essentially create a free trade zone between the two, and specifically give certain privileges to Vietnamese investors in Laos. At the same time, however, it was also noted how Vietnam just recently entered into a formal free trade agreement with the Eurasian Union. Connecting the threads, and considering the presence of certain strategic Russian business interests in Vietnam (most notably in this case, the tourism sector, which will be expanded upon soon), it’s conceivable to suggest that Vietnamese-based Russian businesses will be granted the same privileges in Laos as their ethnic Vietnamese counterparts in the country, the effect of which would be to open up a semi-official (albeit limited) free trade zone between Laos and Russia (or theoretically any of the other Eurasian Union member states) that transits through Vietnam.

The implications pertaining to this realization are huge, since it means that Russia can gain a strategic foothold in Laos via the overlapping free trade agreements. On the surface, mainland Southeast Asia’s least populous and most undeveloped country doesn’t seem like much of an economic opportunity for anyone, but upon closer examination (as was discussed in an earlier-cited piece ), there’s a wealth of untapped mineral and other natural resources there, to say nothing of the logistics edge that the country will have in being the pivotal connector between the Chinese and Thai components of the ASEAN Silk Road. The country also plans to amend its Constitution shortly in order to make it more business-friendly, meaning that if Vietnamese-based Russian companies can be ‘grandfathered’ into the legislation, then they’d be in a prime advantage vis-à-vis their competitors. The thing, is however, that Russia’s lost a lot of its soft power and overall influence in the country since the heyday of the Soviet era , meaning that it’s currently not in the best position to flex its economic muscle there, no matter the legal loopholes that presently work to its advantage or the constitutional urgency in doing so as soon as possible.

An innovative solution does present itself, however, and that’s the utilization of Russia’s established tourism industry network in Vietnam to serve as the vanguard for penetrating the Laotian market. Individuals employed in this field obviously have some degree of knowledge of the Vietnamese language (which is a given if they’re locals), and therein lies the first step in facilitating the return of Russian influence into Laos. According to official statistics released from February of this year, around 25% of the more than 4 million tourists that visited Laos last year were from Vietnam, and seeing as how the two languages are dissimilar, it’s reasonable to conclude that a sizeable segment of the Laotian population speaks Vietnamese to a working capacity. This means that the Vietnamese-speaking employees of Vietnam-based Russian companies can engage in market assessment operations to ascertain the social, material, and investment needs of the country, which would give their bosses valuable economic knowledge that they could either profit from themselves in diversifying their business portfolios or sell to other Russian companies interested in making inroads there. Even if Russian companies aren’t aware of or totally interested in Laos just yet, the discussion to start direct or charter flights between the two countries could make this investment (and tourist) destination much more attractive and convenient in the near future, so it’s therefore in the best interest of any Russian-owned entrepreneurial company in Vietnam to take the lead in this before others catch on.

*Concluding Thoughts*

All in all, Russia needs to be aware of the manner in which it can apply its already existing Vietnamese-based tourist industry in advancing strategic objectives in Laos. The promotion of robust business interests in the land-linked country (be they tourist, mineral, or other) via the exploitation of the overlapping free trade legislations centered on Vietnam can further Moscow’s ultimate goal of formalizing a free trade agreement with Laos and using such a development as a launching pad for promoting a pan-regional free trade area sometime in the future. As a result of such a lucky legal arrangement, Russia has a sizeable opportunity to deepen, as well as accelerate, its Pivot to ASEAN, but it must use its presently available human capital in Vietnam to bring this about. Russian-owned tourist companies in the country have the valuable language skills needed to communicate with Laotians (a significant portion of whom speak Vietnamese for historical and practical reasons), so they can form the vanguard in spearheading renewed Russian investment in the country, either through their own market discoveries or by selling such information to interested compatriots. Looked at from this perspective, Russia does in fact have a realistic possibility of expanding its economic interests into Laos, provided of course that it can harness the motivational will to take the initiative in the first place.

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## cnleio

Yorozuya said:


> Carlosa can’t read Vietnamese, he is a Spanish with a Vietnamese family.
> 
> BTW @Carlosa, ask @cnleio how to set up a VPN to access youtube, gmail, etc in China. You are having difficulty how to use a VPN?
> 
> @cnleio, can you help him?


Baidu any VPN company in China, download their app and pay 30~40RMB per month as VIP account, then done ! Just i don't know whether it can work in Vietnam coz the VPN server in China ... ur Web-brower via VPN server to link foreign sub-servers indirectly access to Youtube.com.

飞鱼VPN,飞鱼网络,提供专业的vpn服务,飞鱼VPN官网

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## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> Baidu any VPN company in China, download their app and pay 30~40RMB per month as VIP account, then done ! Just i don't know whether it can work in Vietnam coz the VPN server in China ... ur Web-brower via VPN server to link foreign sub-servers indirectly access to Youtube.com.
> 
> 飞鱼VPN,飞鱼网络,提供专业的vpn服务,飞鱼VPN官网



Oh thank you. Would this work with Mac OS and safari browser?


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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> Oh thank you. Would this work with Mac OS and safari browser?


Yes, it can apply for MacOS and Iphone/Ipad, user manual on their website.

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## frequency

Barmaley said:


> Official normal displacement of frigate of project 22350 is 4500tones, but some experts says it's actually somewhere in between 5000-5500.
> It's wrong to judge about ship displacement by photo, but still
> Here is, the frigate (on the left) close to destroyer of "Sovremeny-class" which is has normal displacement 6500 tonnes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm honestly think that Vietnam doesn't really need the ships bigger that 3000tones, at this moment at least.
> 
> In my opinion the best solution for Vietnam could be of project 20386 (the fuhrer development of project 20380). Displacement 2700 tones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to modular design you can quickly change the weapons for attack mission, or anti-submarine mission, anti-mines, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is corvette was chosen by the Russian Navy and will be laid down in the end of 2015 or in the early 2016. Also, the weapons more likely will be changed from Ak-630 to Pantsir-M and "Uran" missiles to "UKSK".
> 
> Vietnam could join to this project and start to build them by licence on their shipyards, 4-8 ships in service of such class could be a serious threat.



Big doesn't mean better. In my opinion, small with more is better. The processing power is greater for each. Just like Quad core chip vs Duo core chip.


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## JaiMin

@Carlosa


Carlosa said:


> Nice, can I have the link to the site?



Blogger: User Profile: Thiếu Long - This was the blog of VIetnamese American, he was 2nd gen, write about mostly about history event, his last blog in opera but opera is close now so, u can contact him in Eng

http://www.vietnamforum.info/submit-your-abstract/- Some nice pdf analysis the situation and solution in Vietnam if you interested

http://vietnamlawmagazine.vn/forum/6.html- Some nice article there

Blogs: The Buzz | The National Interest this have good analysis

Log into Facebook | Facebook - facebook group discussion about geopolitic, SCS,...

http://nghiencuuquocte.net/- translate to VNmese but they got link to origional article

Kinh Tế Việt Nam | Trần Hữu Dũng - this one mostly about TPP and free trade, done by Vietnamese American professor

*CVD | Conversations on Vietnam Development - about Conversations on Vietnam Development*

*Các diễn văn làm thay đổi thế giới – Hãy giật sập bức tường này – Ronald Reagan | Đọt Chuối Non - nice speech given by world leader*
Personally, i know only that few website that got Eng, sorry for inconvenient

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## Carlosa

JaiMin said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> 
> Blogger: User Profile: Thiếu Long - This was the blog of VIetnamese American, he was 2nd gen, write about mostly about history event, his last blog in opera but opera is close now so, u can contact him in Eng
> 
> http://www.vietnamforum.info/submit-your-abstract/- Some nice pdf analysis the situation and solution in Vietnam if you interested
> 
> http://vietnamlawmagazine.vn/forum/6.html- Some nice article there
> 
> Blogs: The Buzz | The National Interest this have good analysis
> 
> Log into Facebook | Facebook facebook group discussion
> 
> http://nghiencuuquocte.net/- translate to VNmese but they got link to origional article
> 
> Kinh Tế Việt Nam | Trần Hữu Dũng - this one mostly about TPP and free trade, done by Vietnamese American professor
> 
> *CVD | Conversations on Vietnam Development - about Conversations on Vietnam Development*
> Personally, i know only that few website that got Eng, sorry for inconvenient



Thank you man, very interesting. The National Interest blog I already follow, but the others I did not know. I'll check them out.


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## Viva_Viet

JaiMin said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> 
> Blogger: User Profile: Thiếu Long - This was the blog of VIetnamese American, he was 2nd gen, write about mostly about history event, his last blog in opera but opera is close now so, u can contact him in Eng
> 
> http://www.vietnamforum.info/submit-your-abstract/- Some nice pdf analysis the situation and solution in Vietnam if you interested
> 
> http://vietnamlawmagazine.vn/forum/6.html- Some nice article there
> 
> Blogs: The Buzz | The National Interest this have good analysis
> 
> Log into Facebook | Facebook - facebook group discussion about geopolitic, SCS,...
> 
> http://nghiencuuquocte.net/- translate to VNmese but they got link to origional article
> 
> Kinh Tế Việt Nam | Trần Hữu Dũng - this one mostly about TPP and free trade, done by Vietnamese American professor
> 
> *CVD | Conversations on Vietnam Development - about Conversations on Vietnam Development*
> Personally, i know only that few website that got Eng, sorry for inconvenient






Carlosa said:


> Thank you man, very interesting. The National Interest blog I already follow, but the others I did not know. I'll check them out.


Forum discuss mainly about Hoangsa-Truongsa(Paracel-Spratly) in English 
East VN sea (SCS) news | HoangSa.ORG V3- Diễn đàn tuyên truyền về vấn đề biển đảo-chủ quyền dân tộc (HoangSa.NET)

VN news in Eng, you also can post it on hoangsa.org and discuss with VNese there

More news, less time | BAOMOI.COM

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## Aqsuperman

Just another day in Vietnam...............


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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> Forum discuss mainly about Hoangsa-Truongsa(Paracel-Spratly) in English
> East VN sea (SCS) news | HoangSa.ORG V3- Diễn đàn tuyên truyền về vấn đề biển đảo-chủ quyền dân tộc (HoangSa.NET)
> 
> VN news in Eng, you also can post it on hoangsa.org and discuss with VNese there
> 
> More news, less time | BAOMOI.COM



Thank you man, very interesting.

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## Aqsuperman

Member of close range air defence , most effective between 500 and 1500 meters , can put 70 round of 57mm a minute


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## Aqsuperman

Have fun grinding these :3


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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Have fun grinding these :3



Brown sugar?


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## Aqsuperman

vtnsx said:


> Brown sugar?



its a food ration for infantry , BB-794 , BB stand for Bộ Binh (Infantry) , consist of many things but it taste like crap..........on the good side its super cheap and with 2-3 block and some water , you wont feel hungry for a while


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## Thao Nguyen

Aqsuperman said:


> its a food ration for infantry , BB-794 , BB stand for Bộ Binh (Infantry) , consist of many things but it taste like crap..........on the good side its super cheap and with 2-3 block and some water , you wont feel hungry for a while


Acttually, I like the dry food ration for Pilot, it's delicious and super cheap too


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## Aqsuperman

well that is another verison


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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> its a food ration for infantry , BB-794 , BB stand for Bộ Binh (Infantry) , consist of many things but it taste like crap..........on the good side its super cheap and with 2-3 block and some water , you wont feel hungry for a while


Any neutrients?


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## Aqsuperman

Enough if you manage to finish all of it :v 

On the side note.........this is unexpecyed :v TASS: World - Expert: India, Brazil or Vietnam may buy Mistral helicopter carriers built for Russia


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## Rechoice

Aqsuperman said:


> Enough if you manage to finish all of it :v
> 
> On the side note.........this is unexpecyed :v TASS: World - Expert: India, Brazil or Vietnam may buy Mistral helicopter carriers built for Russia



France could offer free òf charge to us, for compensation for what France colonials did in Vietnam in the past..


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## Thao Nguyen

vtnsx said:


> Any neutrients?


about 6 block is almost enough for 1 day nutrition demand, almost protein,lipid, ................


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## xesy

Rechoice said:


> France could offer free òf charge to us, for compensation for what France colonials did in Vietnam in the past..


Are you sure? Each ship cost France $5 mils per month for maintainance, and will cost about $2 bils to be turned to scrap.


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## Rechoice

xesy said:


> Are you sure? Each ship cost France $5 mils per month for maintainance, and will cost about $2 bils to be turned to scrap.



My post is just for fun, bro. in soha.vn is reported that Vietnam, India, Singapore... is interested about such deal.LOL.


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## Aqsuperman

Two more Su-30 (series number 8814 and 8815 ) have joined VPAF , by the end of this year , we will see the birth of a third regiment with a total of 36 Su-30


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## William Hung

From a Russian website.

This is the Kilo training simulator in Cam Ranh:

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## Aqsuperman

so i guess the torpedo section and other training stuff are locate in other rooms


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## chinazun

Vietnam just got their third and fourth submarine 2 days ago.

Vietnam is considering to buy new MIG 35 from Russia worth 3 billion US from 2016 as their future fighter procurement.

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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> so i guess the torpedo section and other training stuff are locate in other rooms



It should be. They suppose to be all separate.


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## Viet

Hey good news: Vietnam and Russia just signed the framework for nuclear cooperation and sealed the start of construction of the first two nuclear power plants: will begin in 2017. One step closer to master the full cycle of nuclear technology. My dream is having a fleet of nuclear subs in the future.

Russia signs framework agreement for Vietnam's Ninh Thuan 1

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## VNAF

DHC-6 landing at Truong Sa Lon island ( Big Spratly island)

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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Two more Su-30 (series number 8814 and 8815 ) have joined VPAF , by the end of this year , we will see the birth of a third regiment with a total of 36 Su-30



That looks like the Russian Antonov aircraft.


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## Aqsuperman

Yes indeed  an An-124 to be precise


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## Aqsuperman

Training with MANPADS , Navy also have 1 seperate ones


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## T-55

A small selection of photographs taken on the positions of the Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners 9armii North Vietnam); ~ 1965 Year












477768 - на страже Вьетнамского неба

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## Aqsuperman

Source : Comcom..................So...........i guess the next batch of conscripted will be train on Gali


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## Barmaley

chinazun said:


> Vietnam is considering to buy new MIG 35 from Russia worth 3 billion US from 2016 as their future fighter procurement.



Any source on that ?


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## Aqsuperman

1 squad of VPA infantry has 1 M-79 , 1 RPG-7 , 1 RPD or RPK


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## Aqsuperman

part of the Naval Infantry heavy weapon component , this will help eliminate bunker and strongpoint in a few shot


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## Aqsuperman

Well things do got quiet around here 

Anyway , this is another equipment of the heavy wepon unit , SPG-9 , 73mm warhead , very mobile yet strong enough to blow apart anything and can adequately damage MBT with proper round

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## Viet

I'm on vacation right now. In Spain. Nice weather, fresh sea air. Can't post much with my smartphone. Many greetings to Carlosa.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> I'm on vacation right now. In Spain. Nice weather, fresh sea air. Can't post much with my smartphone. Many greetings to Carlosa.



are you tapping those girls? big booty b1tches? lol

such a beautiful place.

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## Aqsuperman

Meh............who care about vacation ? All we need are ice cream and RPG game for summer break :3


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I'm on vacation right now. In Spain. Nice weather, fresh sea air. Can't post much with my smartphone. Many greetings to Carlosa.



Many greetings amigo. Where in Spain are you? Enjoy bro.



vtnsx said:


> are you tapping those girls? big booty b1tches? lol
> 
> such a beautiful place.



He's married. No more tapping for him. He can only dream about AEGIS destroyers now, ha ha.

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## Aqsuperman

well........that is a nice combination :v


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Many greetings amigo. Where in Spain are you? Enjoy bro.
> 
> 
> 
> He's married. No more tapping for him. He can only dream about AEGIS destroyers now, ha ha.


Mallorca. I have never eaten so much of paellas in my life. More than enough for a year.

interesting and never expected: I see a lot of our viet people here. And chinese. I will write a bit about it when I return. I can't say for Spain in general, but of what I see on the island, I am very optimistic on spanish economy. The crisis is over.

Bro, believe me. Aegis destroyers come. Just a matter of time. With or without the contribution of my little money. why? If one studies vietnamese naval history and how we went to wars against great sea powers since ancient time, the chinese, the champa, the siamese, the french and the americans. Against the chinese, we either ambushed them if we had fewer warships or headed on eye by eye if our warships were on par. By now, I think the best tactic against them is a combination of both. During the war against the Ming, we had over 1,000 warships. With a few shameful periods, we never back down.

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## NiceGuy

Viet said:


> Mallorca. I have never eaten so much of paellas in my life. More than enough for a year.
> 
> interesting and never expected: I see a lot of our viet people here. And chinese. I will write a bit about it when I return. I can't say for Spain in general, but of what I see on the island, I am very optimistic on spanish economy. The crisis is over.
> 
> Bro, believe me. Aegis destroyers come. Just a matter of time. With or without the contribution of my little money. why? If one studies vietnamese naval history and how we went to wars against great sea powers since ancient time, the chinese, the champa, the siamese, the french and the americans. Against the chinese, we either ambushed them if we had fewer warships or headed on eye by eye if our warships were on par. By now, I think the best tactic against them is a combination of both. During the war against the Ming, we had over 1,000 warships. With a few shameful periods, we never back down.


Okay okay, Aegis is still far, lets think abt Mistral now, bro, this one is perfect for ramming & water spraying game in SCS(east sea)

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## William Hung

@Barmaley , @vostok or other members who can read Russian.

Can you help translate something for us Viets?There is an interesting discussion on airbase forum about the engines configuration of the Gepards:

Сторожевые корабли проекта 1166/11661 [и их модификации] (42/43)

Someone in that thread briefly mentioned about the new Vietnamese Gepards having German engines and some kind of special quiet mode. Google translate is hard to read, can yous help to translate that part of the discussion? Thanks.


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## Barmaley

Yorozuya said:


> @Barmaley , @vostok or other members who can read Russian.
> 
> Can you help translate something for us Viets?There is an interesting discussion on airbase forum about the engines configuration of the Gepards:
> 
> Сторожевые корабли проекта 1166/11661 [и их модификации] (42/43)
> 
> Someone in that thread briefly mentioned about the new Vietnamese Gepards having German engines and some kind of special quiet mode. Google translate is hard to read, can yous help to translate that part of the discussion? Thanks.



They mentioned some project and that's is.
btw, Vietnam planned to order another two Gepard frigates, maybe they will be installed there, but it's still not clear.

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## Aqsuperman

well i do hope some nice weapon configuration on Gepard this time , mainly about anti-air ability . On the side note , our Sigma will go as a frigate not a corvette so the weapon load out may differ slightly


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## Viet

August 5

a donation from our japanese friend: _Hayato_, 56 meters long and 9 meters wide, gross tonnage of 1,079 metric tons, 49 crew members. Built in 1993, maximum speed of 12.5 nautical miles per hour and can operate for 2 consecutive months without refueling. the first was delivered early this year. 4 more coming later this year. all 6 used ships are worth $4 million.

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## Viet

BM-14, a 140mm Soviet made artillery system. delivered by the Soviet Union in 1960, and even after 55 years still in active service. VN army is a master of maintaining things until they fall apart. so the VPA has weapon systems in storage, that were deployed on battlefields during the WW 2


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## JaiMin

*The Man in the Snow White Cell*
_*Limits to Interrogation*_

*Merle L. Pribbenow*

The war on terror is frustrating and confusing. It is a war of shifting targets and uncertain methods, a war that is unconventional in every sense of the word. One of the most difficult parts of the war for the average American to understand is the trouble we have had in obtaining information from some of the captured terrorists being held at Bagram Airbase in Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and other locations around the world.

A college classmate of mine, someone who knows I am a retired CIA operations officer, recently expressed to me his frustration with the pace of the war on terror. He said he believed that the terrorist threat to America was so grave that any methods, including torture, should be used to obtain the information we need, and he could not understand why my former colleagues had not been able to "crack" these prisoners.

Our current war on terror is by no means the first such war our nation has fought, and our interrogation efforts against terrorist suspects in the United States, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay are (hopefully) based on lessons learned from the experiences of past decades. This article details one particularly instructive case from the Vietnam era.

*Nguyen Tai*
More than 30 years ago, South Vietnamese forces arrested a man who turned out to be the most senior North Vietnamese officer ever captured during the Vietnam War. This was a man who had run intelligence and terrorist operations in Saigon for more than five years, operations that had killed or wounded hundreds of South Vietnamese and Americans. US and South Vietnamese intelligence and security officers interrogated the man for more than two years, employing every interrogation technique in both countries' arsenals, in an effort to obtain his secrets.

Frank Snepp, the CIA officer who conducted the final portion of the interrogation, devoted a chapter in his classic memoir of the last years of the CIA station in Saigon to the interrogation of this man, whom he called the "man in the snow white cell."1 Snepp thought that the South Vietnamese had killed this prisoner just before Saigon fell in April 1975 to keep him from retaliating against those who had tormented him in prison for so long.

Snepp was wrong. The prisoner survived. A few years ago, he published a slim memoir of his years of imprisonment and interrogation titled _Face to Face with the American CIA_.2 It is an extraordinary book that describes how he resisted years of unrelenting interrogation by some of the CIA's most skilled, and South Vietnam's most brutal, interrogators. His book may provide some insights into the problems, both practical and moral, facing our interrogators today.





Nguyen Tai (Photo courtesy of author)

[Top of page]


*Early Nationalist*

Like Osama bin Laden, Nguyen Tai was a sophisticated, intelligent, well-educated man from a prominent family. His father, Nguyen Cong Hoan, was one of Vietnam's most famous authors. Tai's uncle, Le Van Luong, was a member of the Communist Party Central Committee and the second-in-command of the communist Ministry of Public Security (Vietnam's espionage, counterespionage, and security organization, patterned after the Soviet KGB).

Tai joined "the revolution" in 1944 at the age of 18. By 1947, when he was only 21, he was Chief of Public Security for French-occupied Hanoi city.3 Throughout the war against the French, Tai operated inside Hanoi, behind French lines, directing communist intelligence collection activities and combating French efforts to penetrate and eliminate the communist resistance. This covert war was a difficult, dirty, "no holds barred" struggle that employed assassination and terror as its stock in trade.

Tai was ruthless in the conduct of his duties. According to a history of Hanoi Public Security operations, in April 1947, just after Tai took over command of security operations in the city, his office formed special assassination teams called "Vietnamese Youth Teams" [_Doi Thanh Viet_] to "eliminate" French and Vietnamese "targets." The Hanoi history devotes page after page to descriptions of specific assassination operations conducted by these teams.4 In September 1951, as part of a classic operation run jointly by the national-level Ministry of Public Security and Tai's Hanoi security office, a woman pretending to be the wife of the leader of a pro-French resistance faction operating behind communist lines sank a French naval vessel with a 60-pound explosive charge she carried aboard in her suitcase. The woman kept the suitcase next to her until it exploded, thereby becoming perhaps the first female suicide bomber in history.

Following the communist victory at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 and the communist takeover of North Vietnam that followed, Nguyen Tai rose quickly in the hierarchy of the communist Ministry of Public Security. One aspect of his rise was said to have been his assistance in the prosecution of his own father for anti-regime statements.5 In 1961, Tai was appointed director of the Ministry of Public Security's newly reorganized counterespionage organization, the dreaded KG-2--Political Security Department II [_Cuc Bao Ve Chinh Tri II_].6

In that capacity, he directed double-agent operations against South Vietnamese and American forces, including the successful effort to capture and double back US-trained spies and saboteurs dispatched into North Vietnam by parachute and by boat during the early-to-mid-1960s.7

Tai was also responsible for a ruthless crackdown on internal dissidents and directed the initial investigations that resulted in the infamous "Hoang Minh Chinh" affair, a purge of senior communist party "revisionists." The operation sought out allegedly pro-Soviet and pro-Vo Nguyen Giap elements--including members of the party's central committee and the cabinet, and several army generals--opposed to the policies of then-Communist Party First Secretary, Le Duan.8

[Top of page]


*Moving South*
In 1964, leaving his wife and three young children behind, Tai was sent south to join the struggle against the Americans in South Vietnam. He became the chief of security for the Saigon-Gia Dinh Party Committee in 1966.9In one respect, at least, Tai's assignment made sense: He had extensive experience at running a similar clandestine security/intelligence/terrorist organization behind enemy lines from his work as Chief of Hanoi Public Security during the war against the French. However, Tai carried in his head some of North Vietnam's deepest, darkest secrets--including the fact that all the US and South Vietnamese "spies" in North Vietnam were now working for the North Vietnamese; the identities of communist spies in South Vietnam's leadership; specific points of friction in North Vietnam's relations with the Soviet Union and Communist China; and internal splits and factionalism within the North Vietnamese leadership. Therefore, sending him to operate covertly behind enemy lines was a tremendous risk for the Hanoi regime.

Tai immediately threw himself into his new assignment. One of his mission orders, contained in a 17 May 1965 memorandum from the Central Office for South Vietnam (COSVN) Security office, directed him to "exploit every opportunity to kill enemy leaders and vicious thugs, to intensify our political attacks aimed at spreading fear and confusion among the enemy's ranks, and to properly carry out the task of recruiting supporters among the lower ranks of the police."10

Tai attacked this mission with a vengeance, launching a program of bombings and assassinations against South Vietnamese police and security services and leadership figures. According to a Vietnamese Public Security press release in 2002, "Making great efforts, Public Security forces under Tai's command recruited agents, transported weapons into the city, and conducted many well-known attacks that terrified enemy personnel. Of special note were the assassination of a major general assigned to the Office of the President of the Saigon government and the detonation of a bomb in the National Police Headquarters parking lot...."11 Tai directed many other terrorist operations, including numerous bombing attacks against police personnel and locations frequented by police and security officers; the assassination of a senior member of the Vietnamese National Assembly; an assassination attempt against future South Vietnamese President Tran Van Huong; and assassinations of individual police officers and communist Viet Cong defectors.12

[Top of page]


*Capture*
In 1969, Tai was forced to move his operations to a more secure area in the Mekong Delta, following the decimation of the communist infrastructure in the Saigon area by the Americans and South Vietnamese in response to the 1968 communist Tet offensive. While traveling to a political meeting in December 1970, he was arrested by South Vietnamese forces. The cover story and the identity documents carried by Tai and his traveling companions were quickly discovered to be false.

After an initial interrogation and physical beating by South Vietnamese security personnel, Tai shifted to his fallback position to avoid being forced to reveal the location and identities of his personnel in the area. He "admitted" to being a newly infiltrated captain from North Vietnam. When the interrogation became more intense, he "confessed" that he was really a covert military intelligence agent sent to South Vietnam to establish a legal identity and cover legend before being sent on to France for his ultimate espionage assignment (which he claimed to have not yet been fully briefed on).13 Each time he shifted to a fallback story, Tai made an initial show of resistance and pretended to give in only when his interrogator "forced" him to make an admission. He did this to play on the interrogator's ego by making him think that he had "cracked" his subject's story and to divert attention from the things that Tai wanted to protect--such as the location of his headquarters, the identity of his communist contacts, and his own identity and position.

Tai's effort succeeded in buying time for his colleagues and contacts to escape to new hiding places and in diverting his "enemy's" attention onto a false track. But his claim to be a covert military intelligence agent ensured that he would receive high-level attention. Instead of being detained and interrogated by low-level (and less well-trained) personnel in the Mekong Delta, Tai was sent to Saigon for detailed questioning by South Vietnamese and American professionals at the South Vietnamese Central Intelligence Organization's (CIO) National Interrogation Center (NIC).14

[Top of page]


*Counter-Interrogation Strategy*
As any professional interrogator will tell you, the most important requirement for a successful interrogation is knowledge of your subject. The problem facing the interrogators at the NIC when Tai first arrived was that no one had any idea who he really was. Tai devised a cover story, complete with fake name, family and biographic data, and information on his work assignments. He pretended to be cooperative, but provided only information that was either already known or that could not be checked. To claim ignorance about the local communist organization and local contacts, he said he had just arrived from the North on an infiltration boat (one whose arrival was already known because the South Vietnamese had attacked and destroyed the boat when they discovered it at a dock in the Mekong Delta in November 1970). He stated he had been selected for the assignment in France because of his excellent French language skills and had been told that for reasons of security he would be informed of the precise nature of his mission in France only after he established a cover identity and received legal papers in Saigon for his onward travel.

The information Tai provided about his military intelligence training and instructors in North Vietnam was information he knew had already been compromised by communist agents captured previously. He was thus able to give his interrogators what seemed to be "sensitive" information they could confirm, thereby enhancing their belief in his story while at the same time revealing nothing that might cause further damage to his cause. The fact that he had initially "concealed" this information and only "confessed" after being beaten by South Vietnamese officers would, he knew, enhance the story's believability. Tai said his first CIA interrogators, an older man named "Fair" [sic] and a younger man named "John," believed his story.

Suspicions began to surface about Tai's cover story. Tai claims that his story began to fall apart when members of his Saigon Security Office staff, desperate to find out what had happened to their boss, asked one of their agents inside the city to try to locate him, giving the agent his alias (but not his true name and identity) and the date and place he was arrested. When the South Vietnamese arrested this agent, Tai says that the South Vietnamese CIO began to wonder why an agent from Public Security would be trying to locate someone who claimed to be from military intelligence, an entirely separate organization.

Tai may believe this version of how his story began to come apart. But, in fact, he may not have been as successful at deceiving the Americans as he thought. According to former CIA officer Peter Kapusta, who told author Joseph J. Trento in 1990 that he had participated in Tai's interrogation, "John" quickly became suspicious of Tai's cover story and launched an investigation.15 Tai admits that after the polygraph examination he had a confrontation with "John" when "John" tried to reinterview him about his biographic data.16 Whatever the origin of the suspicions, Tai was turned back over to the South Vietnamese, who decided to conduct their own interrogation using their own methods.

[Top of page]


*Extracting a Confession*
The South Vietnamese set to work to force Tai to admit his real identity, the first step in breaking him. They began confronting him with gaps in his story and tortured him when he maintained he was telling the truth. They administered electric shock, beat him with clubs, poured water down his nose while his mouth was gagged, applied "Chinese water torture" (dripping water slowly, drop by drop, on the bridge of his nose for days on end), and kept him tied to a stool for days at a time without food or water while questioning him around the clock. But Tai held to his cover story.

After showing Tai's picture to the large number of communist Public Security prisoners and defectors then in custody, the South Vietnamese quickly learned Tai's true identity as the chief of the Saigon-Gia Dinh Security Section. They began to confront him with informants, former security personnel who knew him and identified him to his face as the chief of Saigon Security. One of these informants was a female agent who, according to Tai's account, had planted a bomb at the South Vietnamese National Police Headquarters on Tai's orders.17 Tai continued to maintain his cover story, and his attitude toward his confronters was so threatening (when combined with his past reputation) that he thoroughly terrified his accusers, one of whom reportedly committed suicide shortly afterward.18

The South Vietnamese tried a new ploy. They told Tai they were planning a secret exchange of high-ranking prisoners, but he would only be exchanged if he admitted to his true identity. They promised that he would not have to tell them anything else, but they could not exchange him if he did not confess his true identity.19 They confronted him with captured documents he had written and with photographs of him taken years before when he served as a security escort for Ho Chi Minh during a state visit to Indonesia. Exhausted and weakened, both physically and psychologically, and comforting himself with the thought that, whether he confessed or not, the enemy clearly already knew his real identity, he finally gave in. Tai wrote out a statement admitting that, "My true name is Nguyen Tai, alias Tu Trong, and I am a colonel in the National Liberation Front of South Vietnam."20

[Top of page]


*No Respite*
As Tai must have anticipated, his confession did not end his ordeal. After giving him a short rest as a reward, his South Vietnamese interrogators came back with a request that he provide details about his personal background and history. Tai refused, and the torture resumed. He was kept sitting on a chair for weeks at a time with no rest; he was beaten; he was starved; he was given no water for days; and he was hung from the rafters for hours by his arms, almost ripping them from their sockets. After more than six months of interrogation and torture, Tai felt his physical and psychological strength ebbing away; he knew his resistance was beginning to crack. During a short respite between torture sessions, to avoid giving away the secrets he held in his head during the physical and psycho-logical breakdown he could feel coming, Tai tried to kill himself by slashing his wrists. The South Vietnamese caught him before he managed to inflict serious injury, and then backed off to let him recuperate.21

Tai says he sustained himself during this period by constantly remembering his obligations to his friends and his family. At one point, when he was shown a photograph of his father, he swore to himself "that I will never do anything to harm the Party or my family's honor."22

Exactly what motivated him is difficult to say, but the key appears to be the reference to "my family's honor." As the educated son of an intellectual rather than a member of the favored "worker-peasant" class, it is likely that Tai's loyalties to the Party had been questioned many times. Tai does not disclose, nor does any outsider really know, what happened between Tai and his family when his father was criticized and fell out of favor with the Party shortly after the communist takeover of North Vietnam in 1954. He may have felt a need to prove his loyalty at that time. If, as Snepp wrote and Tai's interrogators believed, Tai helped prosecute his father during this period, his memoir suggests that he subsequently reconciled with his father and appears to have resolved never to cause such pain to his family again. Human psychology is a tricky business, of course, but in this case what appeared on the outside to be an exploitable weakness--Tai's apparent betrayal of his father--had been turned into a strength.

Lest anyone be too quick to condemn Tai's South Vietnamese interrogators, we should remember that the prisoner had just spent five years directing vicious attacks against these same men, their friends, their colleagues, and their families. They knew that if Tai escaped or was released, he would come after them again. During 1970, the last year of Tai's freedom, in spite of the losses his organization had suffered during the Tet offensive, communist accounts boast of at least three bombings and several assassinations conducted by Tai's personnel against South Vietnamese police and intelligence officers in Saigon.23 It was as if members of the New York Police Department were suddenly handed Osama bin Laden and asked to extract a confession. If things got "a little rough," that certainly should not have come as a surprise to anyone. In addition, accounts by US prisoners of war of their torture by North Vietnamese interrogators at the infamous "Hanoi Hilton" reveal that the methods of physical torture used on them were identical to methods Tai says were used on him. The war was vicious on all sides; no one's hands were clean.

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*The White Cell*
What might have happened if the torture had continued can only be guessed. In the fall of 1971, Tai's superiors made a move that ensured his survival. On 9 October, US Army Sgt. John Sexton was released by his communist captors and walked into American lines west of Saigon carrying a note written by Tran Bach Dang, the secretary of the Saigon-Gia Dinh Party Committee. The letter contained an offer to exchange Tai and another communist prisoner, Le Van Hoai, for Douglas Ramsey, a Vietnamese-speaking State Department officer who had been held by the communists since 1966 and whom the communists believed was a US intelligence officer.24 Tai's torture and interrogation immediately ended. Even though the negotiations for an exchange quickly broke down, Tai had suddenly become, as his communist superiors intended, too valuable for his life to be placed in jeopardy.25 He was now a pawn in a high-level political game.

In early 1972, Tai was informed he was being taken to another location to be interrogated by the Americans. After being blindfolded, he was transported by car to an unknown location and placed in a completely sealed cell that was painted all in white, lit by bright lights 24 hours a day, and cooled by a powerful air-conditioner (Tai hated air conditioning, believing, like many Vietnamese, that cool breezes could be poisonous). Kept in total isolation, Tai lived in this cell, designed to keep him confused and disoriented, for three years without learning where he was.26

Tai's interrogation began anew. This time the interrogator was a middle-aged American whom Tai knew as "Paul." Paul was actually Peter Kapusta, a veteran CIA Soviet/Eastern Europe counterintelligence specialist with close ties to the famed and mysterious chief of CIA counter-intelligence, James Jesus Angleton.27 Even by Tai's account, Kapusta and the other Americans who interrogated him ("Fair," "John," and Frank Snepp) never mistreated him in any way, although Tai was always suspicious of American attempts to trick him into doing something that might cause his suspicious bosses back in the jungle to believe he was cooperating with the "enemy." Kapusta and the other American officers tried to win Tai's trust by giving him medical care, extra rations, and new clothing (most of which Tai claims to have refused or destroyed for fear of compromising his own strict standards of "revolutionary morality"). They also played subtly on his human weaknesses--his aversion to cold, his need for companionship, and his love for his family.28

According to his memoirs, Tai decided he would shift tactics after learning that he was being returned to American control. Rather than refusing to respond with any answers other than "No" or "I don't know," as he had with the South Vietnamese, he now resolved: "I will answer questions and try to stretch out the questioning to wait for the war to end. I will answer questions but I won't volunteer anything. The answers I give may be totally incorrect, but I will stubbornly insist that I am right."29

In other words, Tai would engage in a dialogue, something he could not trust himself to do when being tortured by the South Vietnamese out of fear that his weakened condition and confused mental state might cause him to slip and inadvertently reveal some vital secret. He would play for time, trying to remain in American custody as long as possible in order to keep himself out of the hands of the South Vietnamese, whom he believed would either break him or kill him. This meant he would have to engage in a game of wits with the Americans, selectively discussing with them things they already knew, or that were not sensitive, while staying vigilant to protect Public Security's deepest secrets: the identities of its spies, agents, and assassins. This was, however, a tricky strategy, and even Tai admits that it led him into some sensitive areas. Interestingly, Tai blames the communist radio and press for broadcasting public reports on some sensitive subjects, thereby making it impossible for him to deny knowledge of such areas. Sounding not unlike many American military and intelligence officers during the Vietnam War, Tai writes:

_I had always been firmly opposed to the desires of our propaganda agencies to discuss secret matters in the public media....Now, because the "Security of the Fatherland" radio program had openly talked about the [Ministry's] "Review of Public Security Service Operations," I was forced to give them [the Americans] some kind of answer._30

Peter Kapusta worked on Tai for several months and believed he was making progress. Then he was reassigned. Washington sent Frank Snepp to take over the case.

Snepp decided to try a new ploy to crack Tai's facade. Like other American officers who had interrogated Tai, Snepp did not speak Vietnamese. Interrogations were always conducted using a South Vietnamese interpreter, usually a young woman. Snepp decided to cut the South Vietnamese completely out of the interrogation to see if this might lead Tai to speak more freely. One day he brought in a Vietnamese-speaking American interpreter to take over the duty.

Tai, ever suspicious, believed that as long as Vietnamese were directly involved in his interrogation, there was a chance that word about him might leak out to his "comrades" on the outside. If the Americans took over completely, Tai's superiors would have no chance of locating him, or of verifying his performance during the interrogation. Tai was always desperately concerned with leaving a clear record for his superiors to find that would prove he had not cooperated with his interrogators. He believed this was essential for his own future and that of his family. As a professional security officer, Tai was well aware of the Vietnamese communist practice of punishing succeeding generations for the sins of their fathers. He decided to force the Americans to bring back the South Vietnamese interpreter by pretending not to be able to understand the American, whom he admits spoke Vietnamese perfectly well.31

The ploy worked in the end. Meanwhile, however, it led to the author's only involvement in this case. As Tai had planned, Snepp became angry and frustrated, blaming the American interpreter for the lack of results. After the session, Snepp came to see me (we had become friends during his first tour in Vietnam), told me of his unhappiness with the "performance" of the interpreter (who was a close colleague of mine), and asked if I would be free to interpret for him in future sessions with Tai. As it happened, I was not available, and Snepp was forced to return to the use of an ethnic Vietnamese interpreter. I always wondered what could possibly have caused the problem that Frank described to me that afternoon. Thirty years later, when I read Tai's memoir, I finally understood.

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*Impact of the Paris Accord*
On 27 January 1973, the Paris Peace Agreement was signed, calling for the release of all prisoners of war and civilian detainees. In compliance, Snepp, without obtaining prior authorization from the South Vietnamese CIO (which was still the organization officially responsible for Tai's detention), informed Tai and other communist prisoners of the agreement and its prisoner exchange provisions. Tai, totally isolated from information about the outside world, was suspicious at first. Finally, he managed to persuade one of his guards (who were under instruction not to talk to the prisoner unless absolutely necessary) to confirm Snepp's information.32

The American interrogation ended with the signing of the agreement in Paris, although he remained incarcerated in the snow white cell. Tai was able to use the information Snepp had given him about the prisoner exchange provisions to resist further efforts by the South Vietnamese to interrogate him. He was left isolated, but in peace, for the next two years, until Saigon fell in April 1975. He credits Snepp's information on the Paris accord with enabling him to resist and survive until his final release. Frank Snepp may have saved Tai's life.

According to his memoirs, Tai maintained his sanity and survived by reminding himself of his allegiance to his nation, his Party, and his cause, and by constantly thinking of his family. He followed a strict daily ritual of saluting a star, representing the North Vietnamese flag (a red flag with a single gold star in the center), that he had scratched on his cell wall and then silently reciting the North Vietnamese national anthem, the South Vietnamese Liberation anthem, and the Internationale, the anthem of the world communist movement.33He wrote poems and songs in his head, memorizing them and reviewing them constantly to make sure he did not forget. While some of these poems were the obligatory paeans to the Party, most were about his love for his children and his family.34

Just before communist troops entered Saigon on 30 April 1975, a senior South Vietnamese officer ordered Tai's execution to prevent his release by victorious comrades. By some measure at least, it was not an unreasonable order--as Frank Snepp noted, "Since Tai was a trained terrorist, he could hardly be expected to be a magnanimous victor."35

The order came too late, however. All of the CIO's senior personnel were in the process of fleeing the country, and the junior enlisted men entrusted with the task of disposing of Tai, men who had no opportunity to escape, understandably decided that they might have more to gain by keeping the prisoner alive. They were afraid of retribution if the communist victors learned that they had killed him and they might even have hoped for some reward.36 Tai survived and returned to his family in Hanoi in the fall of 1975. Tai went on to other important positions, including a term as an elected member of the reunified nation of Vietnam's National Assembly. In June 2002, in a solemn ceremony held in Ho Chi Minh City (the former Saigon), Nguyen Tai was officially honored with Vietnam's highest award, the title of "Hero of the People's Armed Forces."

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*Reflections*
What conclusions can we draw about the efficacy and appropriateness of the interrogation techniques used by the South Vietnamese and the Americans in the Tai case? While the South Vietnamese use of torture did result (eventually) in Tai's admission of his true identity, it did not provide any other usable information. The South Vietnamese played the key role in cracking Tai's cover story, but it was their investigation and analysis that put the pieces together to make a solid and incontrovertible identification of Tai, not their use of torture, that scored this success. A sensitive, adept line of questioning that confronted Tai with this evidence and offered him a deal--like the offer by his torturers to exchange admission of his identity for consideration in a notional prisoner exchange--would almost certainly have achieved the same result. Without doubt, the South Vietnamese torture gave Tai the incentive for the limited cooperation he gave to his American interrogators, but it was the skillful questions and psychological ploys of the Americans, and not any physical infliction of pain, that produced the only useful (albeit limited) information that Tai ever provided.

This brings me back to my college classmate's question. The answer I gave him--one in which I firmly believe--is that we, as Americans, must not let our methods betray our goals. I am not a moralist. War is a nasty business, and one cannot fight a war without getting one's hands dirty. I also do not believe that the standards set by the ACLU and Amnesty International are the ones we Americans must necessarily follow. There is nothing wrong with a little psychological intimidation, verbal threats, bright lights and tight handcuffs, and not giving a prisoner a soft drink and a Big Mac every time he asks for them. There are limits, however, beyond which we cannot and should not go if we are to continue to call ourselves Americans. America is as much an ideal as a place and physical torture of the kind used by the Vietnamese (North as well as South) has no place in it. Thus, extracting useful information from today's committed radicals--like Nguyen Tai in his day--remains a formidable challenge.

Source: The Man in the Snow White Cell — Central Intelligence Agency

@Viet, @NiceGuy, @DaiViet, @xesy, @Yorozuya


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## Aqsuperman

Base on a South Africa model.........Still not too much picture abot them in active service


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## Viet

_the coming autumn will be a very HOT season. Xi Jinping and Barack Obama are expected to pay state visit to Vietnam. the first time ever. It is not a secret when I say Vietnam stands at a crossroad. the season will indicate which direction the country is likely heading for the future. economically as well as politically._


*Vietnam's adroit balancing act*

Daljit Singh
Published The Straits Times
Aug 13, 2015, 5:00 am SGT

In the past year, there has been a flurry of visits by Vietnamese leaders to major foreign countries to forge closer bilateral partnerships.

Only a month ago, Vietnamese Communist Party (VCP) General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong paid an official visit to Washington.

Next month, he will visit Tokyo for talks with Prime Minister *Shinzo Abe* of Japan. In November, Chinese President *Xi Jinping *will visit Hanoi and, later in the month, US President *Barack Obama* is expected in the Vietnamese capital. Vietnam is also joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership.


*What is going on?*

It is all part of Vietnam's strategy to balance between China and a host of its other partners.

It wants to deepen political, strategic and economic relations with important players - the US, Japan, India, Russia, Australia, the European Union and Asean - to cushion itself from China, but without entering into a formal alliance arrangement with any great power.

It is part and parcel of Vietnam's adroit strategy of balancing its partnerships.

At one end is China. Vietnam was ruled by China for a thousand years and then fought China for over 800 years or paid tribute to maintain its independence.

As China once again takes its place as a leading world power after a hiatus of two centuries, an ancient and primordial security issue again haunts the Vietnamese mind: How to protect itself from Chinese domination and maintain a measure of independence. Clashes of interest with China in the South China Sea have raised tensions and made this issue more pressing.

China and Vietnam were allies during much of the Vietnam War (1965-1975), but relations deteriorated in the later stages of that conflict, culminating in the 1979 border war, when China launched a punitive military assault against Vietnam for its invasion of Cambodia to replace the Khmer Rouge regime with something more acceptable to Vietnam.

Through much of the 1980s, Indochina was a theatre of bitter Sino-Vietnamese and Sino-Soviet rivalry as Vietnam, armed and financed by the Soviet Union, confronted the Chinese-sponsored Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.

However, Vietnam could not sustain this confrontation once Soviet military and financial support withered after the ascent of President Mikhail Gorbachev in Moscow and the subsequent collapse of the Soviet Union.

This vast change in its circumstances compelled Vietnam to settle the Cambodian conflict and normalise its relations with China. It helped that, after the Tiananmen suppression and Western sanctions, China was eager to expand its international ties.

Since then, the VCP has gone to considerable lengths to accommodate China's interests.

Apart from the curse of geography, historical antagonisms and the vast asymmetries in power between the two states, accommodation was facilitated by the fact that Vietnam shared with China a deep ideologically-rooted fear of liberal political and economic ideas which could activate civil society demands for democracy and individual rights and undermine communist party rule.

However, with the persistence of Chinese pressures in the* South China Sea* , Vietnam now feels that concessions in the spirit of Vietnam-China communist brotherhood will not change Chinese behaviour.

One might ask:

*why Vietnam does not then opt for an alliance with the US to counter China?*

The answer is straightforward.

The US would be wary of "entrapment", that is, being lured by Vietnam into fighting a war with China over interests of only marginal concern to US security.

Even if the United States were keen on an alliance, Vietnam might fear US abandonment if the political and economic costs to the US of such a commitment become unsustainable in the future, as happened in South Vietnam in the early 1970s and, more recently, in Iraq.

Vietnam might also be wary of being a pawn in big power collusion between the US and China at some point. In 1954, after defeating the French at Dien Bien Phu, the Vietnamese were denied the full fruits of victory at the Geneva conference because China, in an understanding with the US, pressured them to accept partition of the country at the 17th parallel.

In 1972-1973, during the Paris peace talks to end the Vietnam war, China again applied pressure on Vietnam to make concessions to the Americans, leading the Vietnamese to believe that Beijing did not want the reunification of Vietnam.

Today, the US and China have a complex relationship, made up of both cooperation and rivalry, with conflicting interests on the role of each in East Asia.

While nobody knows how this relationship will play out in the future, among the longer-term possibilities is a Sino-American accommodation in which the US allows some parts of the region to slide into a China sphere of influence. The Vietnamese, with a deep store of bitter experiences with great powers, have sensitive enough antennae to know this.

So Vietnam prefers to widen its strategic options by deepening partnerships with all important players. It is also strengthening its national capacities, including military capacities, to resist.

*Will Vietnam's strategy succeed? *

For now, it looks like the best or the least bad option. Much will depend on what China does and what the naval balance in the South China Sea between China and the US and its allies will be like in the future. One thing is certain: Vietnam has centuries of experience in dealing with China through an adroit mixture of resistance and obeisance.

_•The writer is a senior research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies-Yusof Ishak Institute.

A version of this article appeared in the print edition of The Straits Times on August 13, 2015, with the headline 'Vietnam's adroit balancing act'. Print Edition | Subscribe_

Vietnam's adroit balancing act, Opinion News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

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## Viet

6 August

ROK destroyer Wang Geon led by Col. Kang Hee arrives for a 4 day visit to Saigon. built in 2005, 5,520 tons, 150 m long. equipped by RGM-84 Harpoon missiles. one of the most powerful destroyers of the ROK. I believe the koreans come not only because they love viet foods.


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## Viet

Hanoi, August 10

Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh received the second most powerful man of the chinese army: deputy Chief of the General Staff of the China People’s Liberation Army* Sun Jianguo*. the aim of the talk is (official diplomatic speech) finding ways to narrow differences and create strategic trust for the friendship between the two armies and peoples. If possible.

Sun will stay for 4 days and have the chance to visit a number of units of the Vietnam People’s Army.
_






visiting to the Minister of Defense Phung Quang Thanh 









_


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## Viet

Infantry Unit #325 (Division #2) during an exercise at night


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## Aqsuperman

Remind me of the Hurt Locker :v


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## William Hung

A very interesting article written by a US army colonel, giving details of his view on how the US should implement its military strategy (The Wolverine Strategy) with the Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia. Basically arm VN/PH to the teeth with surface combat vessels, fighters and network them all with US long range bombers. He is too optimistic about Malaysia though. I doubt Malaysia would dare to stand up to China.

Regaining the Initiative in the South China Sea | The Diplomat



> *A New Defense Architecture*
> 
> If we are to successfully contain the PRC’s ambitions in the SCS, we will have to change the defense architecture in the region. Only four countries hold a commanding position over the SCS: China, Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines. Arguably, the PRC pairs the largest military with the poorest geographical position. A U.S. containment policy can be immeasurably improved with the addition of the active participation of one or more of these critical neighboring nations. Even without U.S. permanent basing, established defense relationships and an improved PN military posture can provide a bulwark against PRC aggression.
> 
> Vietnam, which has a thousand years of Chinese occupation in its history, is also the most recent victim of full-scale Chinese military aggression, having suffered an invasion by the PRC in 1979. Vietnam has also suffered more casualties in the South China Sea in direct conflict with China than any other nation. With a commanding position over the SCS, claims to the Paracel Islands and a robust basing structure, Vietnam is logically the highest-payoff country in the region with which to improve a defense relationship, with or without forward basing accessible to the U.S. The future of military cooperation is currently somewhat limited because Title 22 CFR 126.1 prohibits lethal military aid to Vietnam; waiving this prohibition with respect to maritime weapons systems has already allowed an expanded, if limited, defense relationship with Vietnam. The waiver could be expanded to encompass aviation capabilities, and Senator John McCain has announced a plan to introduce legislation that would remove CFR 126.1 restrictions on Vietnam.
> 
> 
> *The Wolverine Strategy*
> 
> The process of strengthening local partners to compete with a regional hegemon is often referred to as the “hedgehog” strategy. A hedgehog is a difficult challenge for a predator intent on a quick meal. A hedgehog doesn’t have to be impossible to eat, it just has to be more difficult and less worthwhile than the other meal options. A wolverine, on the other hand, is a nasty, aggressive predator that is not only difficult to eat, but dangerous to be around and worth avoiding. A “wolverine” strategy, intended to improve the offensive counterair and countermaritime capabilities of partner nations, would hold part of the key to neutralizing China’s initiative.
> 
> The PRC’s claims in the SCS have no standing in international law, and only very tenuous historical backing. Many of the islands have been only occasionally inhabited for centuries, some remain claimed by the Republic of China, and some have been seized by force by the PRC. In 1974, the PRC seized the Crescent Group of the Paracels from the Republic of Vietnam. In 1994, Mischief Reef was occupied during a lull in Philippine Navy patrols and in 2012 the PRC abrogated a U.S.-brokered agreement which would have pulled back PLAN and Philippine Navy vessels. A three-year blockade of the Philippine Marine detachment on Second Thomas Shoal is ongoing. The PRC has been aggressive in pursuing SCS claims, not only within the 200-nm Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) of other nations, but also within the territorial 12-mile limit of the Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia.
> 
> China is a signatory of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), but believes that it does not apply in the SCS. To date, none of the adjacent countries has resisted PRC encroachment militarily, with the notable exception of Vietnam. This can only change if those countries become strong enough to make PRC advances costly or easily reversed. For local defense within a country’s EEZ, land-based airpower is the decisive force because Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia could all potentially maintain air superiority within 200nm of their shores, while China would be challenged to operate at a much longer distance. If the countries surrounding the SCS had robust, offensive air and sea capabilities, not only would they be better prepared to resist PRC aggression, they would also be able to reverse temporary gains and raise the costs of Chinese intervention.
> 
> U.S. participation in developing offensive air and sea capabilities is critical, but at this juncture not particularly feasible. The U.S. has no lethal, affordable and transferable air or naval systems that our regional partners can afford to purchase, operate and maintain in sufficient numbers. In the 1970s, the U.S. Air Force provided a large number of air forces worldwide with Vietnam-surplus aircraft to provide an effective bulwark against a common Communist-inspired threat. A-37s, F-5s, A-7s, C-7s, C-119s, C-123s, O-1s, O-2s and OV-10s were provided to a number of air forces. Those aircraft are now only marginally operational, if at all. The U.S. now have few alternatives to offer while, at the same time, demand for U.S. assistance with air forces is only growing. If a PN cannot afford an F-16 with a midlife upgrade, we cannot supply them with combat aircraft. Similarly, we do not build naval vessels that can be used effectively by less-capable partners – our best options are retired FFG-7 frigates and the occasional long-endurance cutter. Littoral combat ships are too expensive by an order of magnitude, and we do not build a surface combatant like the _Pegasus_-class hydrofoil, _Skjold_-class corvette, or Type 022 fast missile boat. If we were to attempt to execute a Wolverine Strategy, we are short the necessary tools – the U.S. will have difficulty providing common hardware, effective training, and the most important aspect of all – a long-term relationship that helps shape partner militaries to be a key ally for a global effort with values common to both.
> 
> This is an acute problem in Southeast Asia, as U.S.-built combat aircraft have reached the end of their service lives. The last U.S. export fighter, the F-5E Tiger II, has so far been replaced by non-U.S. fighters, forfeiting a major security cooperation opportunity. The last remaining F-5s in Southeast Asia will retire in the next five years with no American replacement options except the much more expensive F-16, F-18 and F-15E.
> 
> If we are to successfully execute a Wolverine Strategy, we will have to do something about both our air advisory capability and our stable of available aircraft. Combat variants of the T-X trainer (AT-X and FT-X) might well serve as a mid-term, exportable fighter in the mid 2020s. Similarly, ACC’s OA-X (AT-6B or A-29B) could help rebuild the essential skills needed by the Philippines to allow an effective transition to a multirole force – and those aircraft are ready today. If the U.S. were also to design and build small missile combatants akin to the PLAN’s Type 022 _Houbei_-class, partner nations could add small, lethal combatants to the list of capabilities used to offset the PRC’s current maritime superiority over other regional navies. Most importantly, we must accompany any advisory effort with a long-term commitment akin to Plan Colombia, which took a decade, but resulted in a well-equipped, thoroughly professional Fuerza Aérea Colombiana.
> 
> *The Bombers*
> 
> The final ingredient is a modernized long-range bomber force, consisting of LRS-B, B-2, and upgraded B-52J. (The B-1B is simply too fuel inefficient, and has such low availability ratings, to be cost-effective to keep in the inventory. The loss of B-1s will be offset by new LRS-B and by moving additional B-52 from storage into operational units.) The long distances typical of combat in the Pacific, and the increasing range of the PRC’s missile threat, may necessitate operating from well outside the region. Bombers may operate from foreign locations such as RAAF Tindall or Diego Garcia, but a re-engined B-52J could also operate_unrefueled _into the SCS from distant bases like RAAF Amberly or U.S. territory such as Wake, Guam, or even Hawaii. With modernized sensor systems including inverse synthetic aperture (for ship identification) and pulse-Doppler (for air to air situational awareness) modes, the bombers will be able to support countermaritime operations in and around the South China Sea.
> 
> Against the Soviet Navy, a three-ship flight of Harpoon-armed B-52Gs was a formidable force, and might well have proven a dominant force in the North Atlantic. Armed with modern antiship weapons such as the Naval Strike Missile or improved Harpoon, a loaded flight of B-52s has the salvo size to overwhelm naval air defenses from standoff range. In addition to antisurface warfare, the large capacity of the bombers could allow effective isolation of PRC military island installations by direct attack from standoff, or employment of precision standoff aerial mining capabilities exemplified by Quickstrike-ER and Quickstrike-P. Isolating island bases by preventing their resupply could effectively neutralize them – airbases require a lot of fuel to be effective, and air defenses require power generation, which is also fuel-intensive. Island bases isolated by standoff mining of the nearby waters may not be able to redeploy their heavy military equipment, which can then be attacked at leisure.
> 
> The small, congested conditions on fortified islands limit the effectiveness of active defenses, which cannot rely on a mobility doctrine due to the small area and cannot rely on tight emissions control due to the lack of supporting, land-based infrastructure. Moreover, bases built on landfill cannot be effectively hardened with underground facilities – a condition that also bedevils U.S. island bases in the region. Any hit by a weapon on an artificial island base is likely to have an outsized effect due to the congestion of assets.
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> The steady advance of the PRC’s territorial claims in the South China Sea has put the U.S. and partner nations at a disadvantage. China’s incremental approach relies more on the advantages of position and the threat of military force, which is often threatened but rarely used. China is able to get away with this kind of behavior because the competing nations do not have a regional defense arrangement and because the imbalance in force size and capabilities is substantial. However, Vietnam, Malaysia and the Philippines do have substantial geographical advantages over China in that each of them, alone, has a commanding position over parts of the South China Sea. The three of them together, properly equipped and supported by the U.S., could provide a robust counter to any isolated military presence that the PLA might establish outside the Chinese EEZ.
> 
> A combination of improved defense relationships and U.S.-built air and sea capabilities backed by a modernized long-range strike capability from USAF bombers would require a substantial investment in time and resources, but does not place the burden for offsetting China’s advances solely upon the United States. Given the rebalance to the Pacific, a robust engagement strategy is a necessary component of any U.S. effort to contain the PRC and assure Asian partners and allies that the rebalance is more than empty words. Airpower is a key component of this strategy and well-suited to the maritime challenges posed in the South China Sea.



What this colonel is concerned about, is that the US no longer have or produce any small and low cost ships and fighters that can be operated by VN/PH/ML. And if we buy non-US toys, it would be hard to integrate them with the US bombers. So he want the US to start develop cheaper toys, or joint-development with VN/PH.



> ....A combination of improved defense relationships and U.S.-built air and sea capabilities backed by a modernized long-range strike capability from USAF bombers would require a substantial investment in time and resources, but does not place the burden for offsetting China’s advances solely upon the United States.



So in his view, it will take lots of time and investment to implement this plan, but in the long term, it would still be cheaper for the US as it will not be the only country that can militarily challenge China. It will have partners with interoperable naval and airforce assets that will work together to challenge China.



> If the U.S. were also to design and build small missile combatants akin to the PLAN’s Type 022 _Houbei_-class, partner nations could add small, lethal combatants to the list of capabilities used to offset the PRC’s current maritime superiority over other regional navies. Most importantly, we must accompany any advisory effort with a long-term commitment akin to Plan Colombia, which took a decade, but resulted in a well-equipped, thoroughly professional Fuerza Aérea Colombiana...



^^^So I guess this was what they had in mind when the US agreed to co-develop military hardware with VN in the previous meeting iwth the VN defence minister.

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## Viet

*Hospital Ship USNS Mercy, JHSV USNS Millinocket Visit Vietnam*
By: Sam LaGrone
August 18, 2015 1:40 PM • Updated: August 18, 2015 4:20 PM





_Hospital ship USNS Mercy (T-AH 19) sits at anchor upon its arrival off the coast of Da Nang, Vietnam on Aug. 17, 2015. US Marine Corps Photo_

The San Diego-based hospital ship USNS _Mercy _(T-AH-19) and the Joint High Speed Vessel USNS _Millinocket_ (JHSV-3) are in Da Nang, Vietnam this week as part of a humanitarian aid and disaster relief (HADR) exercises.

The visit is part of the 2015 iteration of the ongoing Pacific Partnership exercise in which the U.S. partners with countries in the region for HADR training and Vietnam is the last stop of the exercise for the two ships.

“While in Da Nang, U.S. and partner nation service members as well as non-governmental organizations will work together to conduct subject matter expert exchanges on various medical and disaster relief topics, dental engagements, and engineering civic action programs,” read a statement from the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

While the subsequent exercises with the crews of _Mercy _and _Millinocket_ will focus on disaster relief and how to handle mass casualties, the visit of the two ships comes at the 20th anniversary of Vietnam and the U.S. normalizing diplomatic relations and months after a U.S. guided missile destroyer conducted limited exercises with the Vietnamese People’s Navy.

“This is the sixth time the U.S. has visited Vietnam in the 10 years we have been conducting Pacific Partnership. The visit by Mercy and Millinocket to Vietnam also coincides with the 20th anniversary of the normalization of diplomatic relations between the United States and Vietnam,” said Capt. Christopher Engdahl, the mission commander for Pacific Partnership 2015 in the statement.

“We look forward to working with our Vietnamese partners to fully understand the dynamics of preparing for disaster relief in this modern urban environment and furthering the partnership between our nations.”




_USNS Millinocket (JHSV-3) arrives in Vietnam on Aug. 17, 2015. US Navy Photo_

In April, USS _Fitzgerald_ (DDG-62) and USS _Fort Worth_ (LCS-3) traveled to Vietnam for the first ever at sea exchange between the two navies since the normalization of diplomatic relations.

In the last several years, the U.S. and Vietnam have cautiously expanded military-to-military contact against the backdrop of an expansionist China in the South China Sea.

Historically, the U.S. has taken care to walk a delicate balance between China and other South China Sea border countries by claiming neutrality in the territorial feuds.

However, the U.S. has taken more of a strident tone in the last several weeks as China continues land reclamation efforts in disputed territories — notably in the Paracel and Spratly island chains and continued to restrict movement in those areas near the reclaimed islands.

“Freedom of navigation and overflight are among the essential pillars of international maritime law,” Secretary of State John Kerry told the East Asia Summit in Kuala Lumpur according to a report in _Reuters_ earlier this month.

“Despite assurances that these freedoms would be respected, we have seen warnings issued and restrictions attempted in recent months.”

In late July local press reported two Vietnamese fishing vessels had been rammed by a ship that matched the characteristics of a Chinese Type 072A Yuting II tank landing ship.

Hospital Ship USNS Mercy, JHSV USNS Millinocket Visit Vietnam - USNI News


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## Viet

Welcome to Vietnam!
Interesting: the USNS Millinocket, a US warship that usually tranports the US Marines Corps accompanies the hospital ship. the guests will stay for 12 days.

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## Viet

In a military factory, specilising on anti aircraft missiles.

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## NiceGuy

Hoàng Thu Trang ‎Ghép đôi Chiến Sĩ - Hậu Phương

Họ tên: Hoàng Thu Trang
NS: 1991
Quê quán: Tuyên Quang
Nghề nghiệp: bộ đội- Bộ CHQS tỉnh TQ
Lý do: Hưởng ứng phong trào _smile emoticon_





----------------------------------
a Cute soldier from Tuyen Quang province

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## Viet

I think we need more aircraft to secure the airspace. I know the economy has more priority, nevertheless the airforce should look for ways how to speed up the acquisition process of new fighters. the chinese clowns become more and more aggressive with everyday passing by.

assembling a new arrived SU-30 in a hangar. some technicians and engineers from russia are seen on the picture.





a new hangar under construction


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## Aqsuperman

with the incoming Gali Ace , i wonder what will happen to those TAR-21 units ? will they be moving inland ?


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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> A very interesting article written by a US army colonel, giving details of his view on how the US should implement its military strategy (The Wolverine Strategy) with the Philippines, Vietnam and Malaysia. Basically arm VN/PH to the teeth with surface combat vessels, fighters and network them all with US long range bombers. He is too optimistic about Malaysia though. I doubt Malaysia would dare to stand up to China.
> 
> Regaining the Initiative in the South China Sea | The Diplomat
> 
> 
> 
> What this colonel is concerned about, is that the US no longer have or produce any small and low cost ships and fighters that can be operated by VN/PH/ML. And if we buy non-US toys, it would be hard to integrate them with the US bombers. So he want the US to start develop cheaper toys, or joint-development with VN/PH.
> 
> 
> 
> So in his view, it will take lots of time and investment to implement this plan, but in the long term, it would still be cheaper for the US as it will not be the only country that can militarily challenge China. It will have partners with interoperable naval and airforce assets that will work together to challenge China.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^So I guess this was what they had in mind when the US agreed to co-develop military hardware with VN in the previous meeting iwth the VN defence minister.


actually the US, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and others in the region profit by our effort from preventing the chinese taking over the SC Sea. we keep the balance of power on land and at sea with our limited resources. so I think it is fair to ask the US, Japan and Korea to finance a part of our cost, easing our burden.

no, Malaysia has no military power to confront China. nore have they guts. if theoretically the malays begin to challenge the chinese, the likelyhood of a domestic civil war is very high, the fate of chinese ethnics is at stake.

last, I post here a pic: this field gun is probably used at parades only.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> actually the US, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and others in the region profit by our effort from preventing the chinese taking over the SC Sea. we keep the balance of power on land and at sea with our limited resources. so I think it is fair to ask the US, Japan and Korea to finance a part of our cost, easing our burden.
> 
> no, Malaysia has no military power to confront China. nore have they guts. if theoretically the malays begin to challenge the chinese, the likelyhood of a domestic civil war is very high, the fate of chinese ethnics is at stake.
> 
> last, I post here a pic: this field gun is probably used at parades only.



They are not going to finance anything. They themselve are fighting to increase or keep the budget to maintain their military. We just need them to lift the arms embargo, carry out joint-development that wont cost them anything but might even make them money since their companies would get paid. We can build the platform in VN.

For example, something like this Ambassador MK 3 FAC. Its similar to our Molniya but more modern with better air defence:

600 tons
41 knots top speed.
8 Harpoons
Phalanx
RIM-116 SAM










This Ezzat class FAC was designed and built by an American company for the Eqyptian navy. All we need is a joint-developmemt project with them for similar platforms and we can just build it at our domestic shipyard to save cost.

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> this field gun is probably used at parades only


That is a 76 mm howitzer Zis-3 and yeah maybe this time it will shot blank ammunition in the 2/9 but it can change back to the HE as soon as required :3


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## Aqsuperman

a BTR-152 with top armor to cover troops from airburst round but also remove the ability to mount 12.7mm DSHK


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## Viet

JaiMin said:


> *The Man in the Snow White Cell*
> _*Limits to Interrogation*_
> 
> *Merle L. Pribbenow*
> 
> The war on terror is frustrating and confusing. It is a war of shifting targets and uncertain methods, a war that is unconventional in every sense of the word. One of the most difficult parts of the war for the average American to understand is the trouble we have had in obtaining information from some of the captured terrorists being held at Bagram Airbase in Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and other locations around the world.
> 
> A college classmate of mine, someone who knows I am a retired CIA operations officer, recently expressed to me his frustration with the pace of the war on terror. He said he believed that the terrorist threat to America was so grave that any methods, including torture, should be used to obtain the information we need, and he could not understand why my former colleagues had not been able to "crack" these prisoners.
> 
> Our current war on terror is by no means the first such war our nation has fought, and our interrogation efforts against terrorist suspects in the United States, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay are (hopefully) based on lessons learned from the experiences of past decades. This article details one particularly instructive case from the Vietnam era.
> 
> *Nguyen Tai*
> More than 30 years ago, South Vietnamese forces arrested a man who turned out to be the most senior North Vietnamese officer ever captured during the Vietnam War. This was a man who had run intelligence and terrorist operations in Saigon for more than five years, operations that had killed or wounded hundreds of South Vietnamese and Americans. US and South Vietnamese intelligence and security officers interrogated the man for more than two years, employing every interrogation technique in both countries' arsenals, in an effort to obtain his secrets.
> 
> Frank Snepp, the CIA officer who conducted the final portion of the interrogation, devoted a chapter in his classic memoir of the last years of the CIA station in Saigon to the interrogation of this man, whom he called the "man in the snow white cell."1 Snepp thought that the South Vietnamese had killed this prisoner just before Saigon fell in April 1975 to keep him from retaliating against those who had tormented him in prison for so long.
> 
> Snepp was wrong. The prisoner survived. A few years ago, he published a slim memoir of his years of imprisonment and interrogation titled _Face to Face with the American CIA_.2 It is an extraordinary book that describes how he resisted years of unrelenting interrogation by some of the CIA's most skilled, and South Vietnam's most brutal, interrogators. His book may provide some insights into the problems, both practical and moral, facing our interrogators today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nguyen Tai (Photo courtesy of author)
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *Early Nationalist*
> 
> Like Osama bin Laden, Nguyen Tai was a sophisticated, intelligent, well-educated man from a prominent family. His father, Nguyen Cong Hoan, was one of Vietnam's most famous authors. Tai's uncle, Le Van Luong, was a member of the Communist Party Central Committee and the second-in-command of the communist Ministry of Public Security (Vietnam's espionage, counterespionage, and security organization, patterned after the Soviet KGB).
> 
> Tai joined "the revolution" in 1944 at the age of 18. By 1947, when he was only 21, he was Chief of Public Security for French-occupied Hanoi city.3 Throughout the war against the French, Tai operated inside Hanoi, behind French lines, directing communist intelligence collection activities and combating French efforts to penetrate and eliminate the communist resistance. This covert war was a difficult, dirty, "no holds barred" struggle that employed assassination and terror as its stock in trade.
> 
> Tai was ruthless in the conduct of his duties. According to a history of Hanoi Public Security operations, in April 1947, just after Tai took over command of security operations in the city, his office formed special assassination teams called "Vietnamese Youth Teams" [_Doi Thanh Viet_] to "eliminate" French and Vietnamese "targets." The Hanoi history devotes page after page to descriptions of specific assassination operations conducted by these teams.4 In September 1951, as part of a classic operation run jointly by the national-level Ministry of Public Security and Tai's Hanoi security office, a woman pretending to be the wife of the leader of a pro-French resistance faction operating behind communist lines sank a French naval vessel with a 60-pound explosive charge she carried aboard in her suitcase. The woman kept the suitcase next to her until it exploded, thereby becoming perhaps the first female suicide bomber in history.
> 
> Following the communist victory at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 and the communist takeover of North Vietnam that followed, Nguyen Tai rose quickly in the hierarchy of the communist Ministry of Public Security. One aspect of his rise was said to have been his assistance in the prosecution of his own father for anti-regime statements.5 In 1961, Tai was appointed director of the Ministry of Public Security's newly reorganized counterespionage organization, the dreaded KG-2--Political Security Department II [_Cuc Bao Ve Chinh Tri II_].6
> 
> In that capacity, he directed double-agent operations against South Vietnamese and American forces, including the successful effort to capture and double back US-trained spies and saboteurs dispatched into North Vietnam by parachute and by boat during the early-to-mid-1960s.7
> 
> Tai was also responsible for a ruthless crackdown on internal dissidents and directed the initial investigations that resulted in the infamous "Hoang Minh Chinh" affair, a purge of senior communist party "revisionists." The operation sought out allegedly pro-Soviet and pro-Vo Nguyen Giap elements--including members of the party's central committee and the cabinet, and several army generals--opposed to the policies of then-Communist Party First Secretary, Le Duan.8
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *Moving South*
> In 1964, leaving his wife and three young children behind, Tai was sent south to join the struggle against the Americans in South Vietnam. He became the chief of security for the Saigon-Gia Dinh Party Committee in 1966.9In one respect, at least, Tai's assignment made sense: He had extensive experience at running a similar clandestine security/intelligence/terrorist organization behind enemy lines from his work as Chief of Hanoi Public Security during the war against the French. However, Tai carried in his head some of North Vietnam's deepest, darkest secrets--including the fact that all the US and South Vietnamese "spies" in North Vietnam were now working for the North Vietnamese; the identities of communist spies in South Vietnam's leadership; specific points of friction in North Vietnam's relations with the Soviet Union and Communist China; and internal splits and factionalism within the North Vietnamese leadership. Therefore, sending him to operate covertly behind enemy lines was a tremendous risk for the Hanoi regime.
> 
> Tai immediately threw himself into his new assignment. One of his mission orders, contained in a 17 May 1965 memorandum from the Central Office for South Vietnam (COSVN) Security office, directed him to "exploit every opportunity to kill enemy leaders and vicious thugs, to intensify our political attacks aimed at spreading fear and confusion among the enemy's ranks, and to properly carry out the task of recruiting supporters among the lower ranks of the police."10
> 
> Tai attacked this mission with a vengeance, launching a program of bombings and assassinations against South Vietnamese police and security services and leadership figures. According to a Vietnamese Public Security press release in 2002, "Making great efforts, Public Security forces under Tai's command recruited agents, transported weapons into the city, and conducted many well-known attacks that terrified enemy personnel. Of special note were the assassination of a major general assigned to the Office of the President of the Saigon government and the detonation of a bomb in the National Police Headquarters parking lot...."11 Tai directed many other terrorist operations, including numerous bombing attacks against police personnel and locations frequented by police and security officers; the assassination of a senior member of the Vietnamese National Assembly; an assassination attempt against future South Vietnamese President Tran Van Huong; and assassinations of individual police officers and communist Viet Cong defectors.12
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *Capture*
> In 1969, Tai was forced to move his operations to a more secure area in the Mekong Delta, following the decimation of the communist infrastructure in the Saigon area by the Americans and South Vietnamese in response to the 1968 communist Tet offensive. While traveling to a political meeting in December 1970, he was arrested by South Vietnamese forces. The cover story and the identity documents carried by Tai and his traveling companions were quickly discovered to be false.
> 
> After an initial interrogation and physical beating by South Vietnamese security personnel, Tai shifted to his fallback position to avoid being forced to reveal the location and identities of his personnel in the area. He "admitted" to being a newly infiltrated captain from North Vietnam. When the interrogation became more intense, he "confessed" that he was really a covert military intelligence agent sent to South Vietnam to establish a legal identity and cover legend before being sent on to France for his ultimate espionage assignment (which he claimed to have not yet been fully briefed on).13 Each time he shifted to a fallback story, Tai made an initial show of resistance and pretended to give in only when his interrogator "forced" him to make an admission. He did this to play on the interrogator's ego by making him think that he had "cracked" his subject's story and to divert attention from the things that Tai wanted to protect--such as the location of his headquarters, the identity of his communist contacts, and his own identity and position.
> 
> Tai's effort succeeded in buying time for his colleagues and contacts to escape to new hiding places and in diverting his "enemy's" attention onto a false track. But his claim to be a covert military intelligence agent ensured that he would receive high-level attention. Instead of being detained and interrogated by low-level (and less well-trained) personnel in the Mekong Delta, Tai was sent to Saigon for detailed questioning by South Vietnamese and American professionals at the South Vietnamese Central Intelligence Organization's (CIO) National Interrogation Center (NIC).14
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *Counter-Interrogation Strategy*
> As any professional interrogator will tell you, the most important requirement for a successful interrogation is knowledge of your subject. The problem facing the interrogators at the NIC when Tai first arrived was that no one had any idea who he really was. Tai devised a cover story, complete with fake name, family and biographic data, and information on his work assignments. He pretended to be cooperative, but provided only information that was either already known or that could not be checked. To claim ignorance about the local communist organization and local contacts, he said he had just arrived from the North on an infiltration boat (one whose arrival was already known because the South Vietnamese had attacked and destroyed the boat when they discovered it at a dock in the Mekong Delta in November 1970). He stated he had been selected for the assignment in France because of his excellent French language skills and had been told that for reasons of security he would be informed of the precise nature of his mission in France only after he established a cover identity and received legal papers in Saigon for his onward travel.
> 
> The information Tai provided about his military intelligence training and instructors in North Vietnam was information he knew had already been compromised by communist agents captured previously. He was thus able to give his interrogators what seemed to be "sensitive" information they could confirm, thereby enhancing their belief in his story while at the same time revealing nothing that might cause further damage to his cause. The fact that he had initially "concealed" this information and only "confessed" after being beaten by South Vietnamese officers would, he knew, enhance the story's believability. Tai said his first CIA interrogators, an older man named "Fair" [sic] and a younger man named "John," believed his story.
> 
> Suspicions began to surface about Tai's cover story. Tai claims that his story began to fall apart when members of his Saigon Security Office staff, desperate to find out what had happened to their boss, asked one of their agents inside the city to try to locate him, giving the agent his alias (but not his true name and identity) and the date and place he was arrested. When the South Vietnamese arrested this agent, Tai says that the South Vietnamese CIO began to wonder why an agent from Public Security would be trying to locate someone who claimed to be from military intelligence, an entirely separate organization.
> 
> Tai may believe this version of how his story began to come apart. But, in fact, he may not have been as successful at deceiving the Americans as he thought. According to former CIA officer Peter Kapusta, who told author Joseph J. Trento in 1990 that he had participated in Tai's interrogation, "John" quickly became suspicious of Tai's cover story and launched an investigation.15 Tai admits that after the polygraph examination he had a confrontation with "John" when "John" tried to reinterview him about his biographic data.16 Whatever the origin of the suspicions, Tai was turned back over to the South Vietnamese, who decided to conduct their own interrogation using their own methods.
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *Extracting a Confession*
> The South Vietnamese set to work to force Tai to admit his real identity, the first step in breaking him. They began confronting him with gaps in his story and tortured him when he maintained he was telling the truth. They administered electric shock, beat him with clubs, poured water down his nose while his mouth was gagged, applied "Chinese water torture" (dripping water slowly, drop by drop, on the bridge of his nose for days on end), and kept him tied to a stool for days at a time without food or water while questioning him around the clock. But Tai held to his cover story.
> 
> After showing Tai's picture to the large number of communist Public Security prisoners and defectors then in custody, the South Vietnamese quickly learned Tai's true identity as the chief of the Saigon-Gia Dinh Security Section. They began to confront him with informants, former security personnel who knew him and identified him to his face as the chief of Saigon Security. One of these informants was a female agent who, according to Tai's account, had planted a bomb at the South Vietnamese National Police Headquarters on Tai's orders.17 Tai continued to maintain his cover story, and his attitude toward his confronters was so threatening (when combined with his past reputation) that he thoroughly terrified his accusers, one of whom reportedly committed suicide shortly afterward.18
> 
> The South Vietnamese tried a new ploy. They told Tai they were planning a secret exchange of high-ranking prisoners, but he would only be exchanged if he admitted to his true identity. They promised that he would not have to tell them anything else, but they could not exchange him if he did not confess his true identity.19 They confronted him with captured documents he had written and with photographs of him taken years before when he served as a security escort for Ho Chi Minh during a state visit to Indonesia. Exhausted and weakened, both physically and psychologically, and comforting himself with the thought that, whether he confessed or not, the enemy clearly already knew his real identity, he finally gave in. Tai wrote out a statement admitting that, "My true name is Nguyen Tai, alias Tu Trong, and I am a colonel in the National Liberation Front of South Vietnam."20
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *No Respite*
> As Tai must have anticipated, his confession did not end his ordeal. After giving him a short rest as a reward, his South Vietnamese interrogators came back with a request that he provide details about his personal background and history. Tai refused, and the torture resumed. He was kept sitting on a chair for weeks at a time with no rest; he was beaten; he was starved; he was given no water for days; and he was hung from the rafters for hours by his arms, almost ripping them from their sockets. After more than six months of interrogation and torture, Tai felt his physical and psychological strength ebbing away; he knew his resistance was beginning to crack. During a short respite between torture sessions, to avoid giving away the secrets he held in his head during the physical and psycho-logical breakdown he could feel coming, Tai tried to kill himself by slashing his wrists. The South Vietnamese caught him before he managed to inflict serious injury, and then backed off to let him recuperate.21
> 
> Tai says he sustained himself during this period by constantly remembering his obligations to his friends and his family. At one point, when he was shown a photograph of his father, he swore to himself "that I will never do anything to harm the Party or my family's honor."22
> 
> Exactly what motivated him is difficult to say, but the key appears to be the reference to "my family's honor." As the educated son of an intellectual rather than a member of the favored "worker-peasant" class, it is likely that Tai's loyalties to the Party had been questioned many times. Tai does not disclose, nor does any outsider really know, what happened between Tai and his family when his father was criticized and fell out of favor with the Party shortly after the communist takeover of North Vietnam in 1954. He may have felt a need to prove his loyalty at that time. If, as Snepp wrote and Tai's interrogators believed, Tai helped prosecute his father during this period, his memoir suggests that he subsequently reconciled with his father and appears to have resolved never to cause such pain to his family again. Human psychology is a tricky business, of course, but in this case what appeared on the outside to be an exploitable weakness--Tai's apparent betrayal of his father--had been turned into a strength.
> 
> Lest anyone be too quick to condemn Tai's South Vietnamese interrogators, we should remember that the prisoner had just spent five years directing vicious attacks against these same men, their friends, their colleagues, and their families. They knew that if Tai escaped or was released, he would come after them again. During 1970, the last year of Tai's freedom, in spite of the losses his organization had suffered during the Tet offensive, communist accounts boast of at least three bombings and several assassinations conducted by Tai's personnel against South Vietnamese police and intelligence officers in Saigon.23 It was as if members of the New York Police Department were suddenly handed Osama bin Laden and asked to extract a confession. If things got "a little rough," that certainly should not have come as a surprise to anyone. In addition, accounts by US prisoners of war of their torture by North Vietnamese interrogators at the infamous "Hanoi Hilton" reveal that the methods of physical torture used on them were identical to methods Tai says were used on him. The war was vicious on all sides; no one's hands were clean.
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *The White Cell*
> What might have happened if the torture had continued can only be guessed. In the fall of 1971, Tai's superiors made a move that ensured his survival. On 9 October, US Army Sgt. John Sexton was released by his communist captors and walked into American lines west of Saigon carrying a note written by Tran Bach Dang, the secretary of the Saigon-Gia Dinh Party Committee. The letter contained an offer to exchange Tai and another communist prisoner, Le Van Hoai, for Douglas Ramsey, a Vietnamese-speaking State Department officer who had been held by the communists since 1966 and whom the communists believed was a US intelligence officer.24 Tai's torture and interrogation immediately ended. Even though the negotiations for an exchange quickly broke down, Tai had suddenly become, as his communist superiors intended, too valuable for his life to be placed in jeopardy.25 He was now a pawn in a high-level political game.
> 
> In early 1972, Tai was informed he was being taken to another location to be interrogated by the Americans. After being blindfolded, he was transported by car to an unknown location and placed in a completely sealed cell that was painted all in white, lit by bright lights 24 hours a day, and cooled by a powerful air-conditioner (Tai hated air conditioning, believing, like many Vietnamese, that cool breezes could be poisonous). Kept in total isolation, Tai lived in this cell, designed to keep him confused and disoriented, for three years without learning where he was.26
> 
> Tai's interrogation began anew. This time the interrogator was a middle-aged American whom Tai knew as "Paul." Paul was actually Peter Kapusta, a veteran CIA Soviet/Eastern Europe counterintelligence specialist with close ties to the famed and mysterious chief of CIA counter-intelligence, James Jesus Angleton.27 Even by Tai's account, Kapusta and the other Americans who interrogated him ("Fair," "John," and Frank Snepp) never mistreated him in any way, although Tai was always suspicious of American attempts to trick him into doing something that might cause his suspicious bosses back in the jungle to believe he was cooperating with the "enemy." Kapusta and the other American officers tried to win Tai's trust by giving him medical care, extra rations, and new clothing (most of which Tai claims to have refused or destroyed for fear of compromising his own strict standards of "revolutionary morality"). They also played subtly on his human weaknesses--his aversion to cold, his need for companionship, and his love for his family.28
> 
> According to his memoirs, Tai decided he would shift tactics after learning that he was being returned to American control. Rather than refusing to respond with any answers other than "No" or "I don't know," as he had with the South Vietnamese, he now resolved: "I will answer questions and try to stretch out the questioning to wait for the war to end. I will answer questions but I won't volunteer anything. The answers I give may be totally incorrect, but I will stubbornly insist that I am right."29
> 
> In other words, Tai would engage in a dialogue, something he could not trust himself to do when being tortured by the South Vietnamese out of fear that his weakened condition and confused mental state might cause him to slip and inadvertently reveal some vital secret. He would play for time, trying to remain in American custody as long as possible in order to keep himself out of the hands of the South Vietnamese, whom he believed would either break him or kill him. This meant he would have to engage in a game of wits with the Americans, selectively discussing with them things they already knew, or that were not sensitive, while staying vigilant to protect Public Security's deepest secrets: the identities of its spies, agents, and assassins. This was, however, a tricky strategy, and even Tai admits that it led him into some sensitive areas. Interestingly, Tai blames the communist radio and press for broadcasting public reports on some sensitive subjects, thereby making it impossible for him to deny knowledge of such areas. Sounding not unlike many American military and intelligence officers during the Vietnam War, Tai writes:
> 
> _I had always been firmly opposed to the desires of our propaganda agencies to discuss secret matters in the public media....Now, because the "Security of the Fatherland" radio program had openly talked about the [Ministry's] "Review of Public Security Service Operations," I was forced to give them [the Americans] some kind of answer._30
> 
> Peter Kapusta worked on Tai for several months and believed he was making progress. Then he was reassigned. Washington sent Frank Snepp to take over the case.
> 
> Snepp decided to try a new ploy to crack Tai's facade. Like other American officers who had interrogated Tai, Snepp did not speak Vietnamese. Interrogations were always conducted using a South Vietnamese interpreter, usually a young woman. Snepp decided to cut the South Vietnamese completely out of the interrogation to see if this might lead Tai to speak more freely. One day he brought in a Vietnamese-speaking American interpreter to take over the duty.
> 
> Tai, ever suspicious, believed that as long as Vietnamese were directly involved in his interrogation, there was a chance that word about him might leak out to his "comrades" on the outside. If the Americans took over completely, Tai's superiors would have no chance of locating him, or of verifying his performance during the interrogation. Tai was always desperately concerned with leaving a clear record for his superiors to find that would prove he had not cooperated with his interrogators. He believed this was essential for his own future and that of his family. As a professional security officer, Tai was well aware of the Vietnamese communist practice of punishing succeeding generations for the sins of their fathers. He decided to force the Americans to bring back the South Vietnamese interpreter by pretending not to be able to understand the American, whom he admits spoke Vietnamese perfectly well.31
> 
> The ploy worked in the end. Meanwhile, however, it led to the author's only involvement in this case. As Tai had planned, Snepp became angry and frustrated, blaming the American interpreter for the lack of results. After the session, Snepp came to see me (we had become friends during his first tour in Vietnam), told me of his unhappiness with the "performance" of the interpreter (who was a close colleague of mine), and asked if I would be free to interpret for him in future sessions with Tai. As it happened, I was not available, and Snepp was forced to return to the use of an ethnic Vietnamese interpreter. I always wondered what could possibly have caused the problem that Frank described to me that afternoon. Thirty years later, when I read Tai's memoir, I finally understood.
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *Impact of the Paris Accord*
> On 27 January 1973, the Paris Peace Agreement was signed, calling for the release of all prisoners of war and civilian detainees. In compliance, Snepp, without obtaining prior authorization from the South Vietnamese CIO (which was still the organization officially responsible for Tai's detention), informed Tai and other communist prisoners of the agreement and its prisoner exchange provisions. Tai, totally isolated from information about the outside world, was suspicious at first. Finally, he managed to persuade one of his guards (who were under instruction not to talk to the prisoner unless absolutely necessary) to confirm Snepp's information.32
> 
> The American interrogation ended with the signing of the agreement in Paris, although he remained incarcerated in the snow white cell. Tai was able to use the information Snepp had given him about the prisoner exchange provisions to resist further efforts by the South Vietnamese to interrogate him. He was left isolated, but in peace, for the next two years, until Saigon fell in April 1975. He credits Snepp's information on the Paris accord with enabling him to resist and survive until his final release. Frank Snepp may have saved Tai's life.
> 
> According to his memoirs, Tai maintained his sanity and survived by reminding himself of his allegiance to his nation, his Party, and his cause, and by constantly thinking of his family. He followed a strict daily ritual of saluting a star, representing the North Vietnamese flag (a red flag with a single gold star in the center), that he had scratched on his cell wall and then silently reciting the North Vietnamese national anthem, the South Vietnamese Liberation anthem, and the Internationale, the anthem of the world communist movement.33He wrote poems and songs in his head, memorizing them and reviewing them constantly to make sure he did not forget. While some of these poems were the obligatory paeans to the Party, most were about his love for his children and his family.34
> 
> Just before communist troops entered Saigon on 30 April 1975, a senior South Vietnamese officer ordered Tai's execution to prevent his release by victorious comrades. By some measure at least, it was not an unreasonable order--as Frank Snepp noted, "Since Tai was a trained terrorist, he could hardly be expected to be a magnanimous victor."35
> 
> The order came too late, however. All of the CIO's senior personnel were in the process of fleeing the country, and the junior enlisted men entrusted with the task of disposing of Tai, men who had no opportunity to escape, understandably decided that they might have more to gain by keeping the prisoner alive. They were afraid of retribution if the communist victors learned that they had killed him and they might even have hoped for some reward.36 Tai survived and returned to his family in Hanoi in the fall of 1975. Tai went on to other important positions, including a term as an elected member of the reunified nation of Vietnam's National Assembly. In June 2002, in a solemn ceremony held in Ho Chi Minh City (the former Saigon), Nguyen Tai was officially honored with Vietnam's highest award, the title of "Hero of the People's Armed Forces."
> 
> [Top of page]
> 
> 
> *Reflections*
> What conclusions can we draw about the efficacy and appropriateness of the interrogation techniques used by the South Vietnamese and the Americans in the Tai case? While the South Vietnamese use of torture did result (eventually) in Tai's admission of his true identity, it did not provide any other usable information. The South Vietnamese played the key role in cracking Tai's cover story, but it was their investigation and analysis that put the pieces together to make a solid and incontrovertible identification of Tai, not their use of torture, that scored this success. A sensitive, adept line of questioning that confronted Tai with this evidence and offered him a deal--like the offer by his torturers to exchange admission of his identity for consideration in a notional prisoner exchange--would almost certainly have achieved the same result. Without doubt, the South Vietnamese torture gave Tai the incentive for the limited cooperation he gave to his American interrogators, but it was the skillful questions and psychological ploys of the Americans, and not any physical infliction of pain, that produced the only useful (albeit limited) information that Tai ever provided.
> 
> This brings me back to my college classmate's question. The answer I gave him--one in which I firmly believe--is that we, as Americans, must not let our methods betray our goals. I am not a moralist. War is a nasty business, and one cannot fight a war without getting one's hands dirty. I also do not believe that the standards set by the ACLU and Amnesty International are the ones we Americans must necessarily follow. There is nothing wrong with a little psychological intimidation, verbal threats, bright lights and tight handcuffs, and not giving a prisoner a soft drink and a Big Mac every time he asks for them. There are limits, however, beyond which we cannot and should not go if we are to continue to call ourselves Americans. America is as much an ideal as a place and physical torture of the kind used by the Vietnamese (North as well as South) has no place in it. Thus, extracting useful information from today's committed radicals--like Nguyen Tai in his day--remains a formidable challenge.
> 
> Source: The Man in the Snow White Cell — Central Intelligence Agency
> 
> @Viet, @NiceGuy, @DaiViet, @xesy, @Yorozuya


bro luckily the war is over. right now we enjoy the longest peace period in our modern history. torture and other cruels are not the things that human can be proud of. in this regard, I am happy to see VN has signed the UN convention against torture. I´m not saying now everything is fine, but the first step is made. follow the convention in the reality, and not only on paper.

Vietnam joins UN Convention against Torture - News VietNamNet


----------



## 64:0

Vietnam is seriously concerned about Indonesian authorities’ sinking of several Vietnamese vessels that had been found fishing illegally in Indonesian waters, the foreign ministry said Thursday.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs sent a diplomatic note on this issue to Indonesia earlier the same day, spokesman Le Hai Binh said at a press conference in Hanoi.
Indonesia sank 34 foreign vessels, including those from Vietnam, on Tuesday to deter vessels from illegally fishing, local media outlets reported.
Vietnam asked Indonesia to handle Vietnamese fishermen who violated Indonesia’s territorial waters "in line with the strategic partnership between the two countries," and "in a humane fashion," Binh said.
Vietnam has continually asked its fishermen to strictly adhere to other countries’ regulations and not infringe upon foreign waters, he stressed.


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## Aqsuperman

well i would like to see missile in those pod too............


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## Rechoice

NiceGuy said:


> Hoàng Thu Trang ‎Ghép đôi Chiến Sĩ - Hậu Phương
> 
> Họ tên: Hoàng Thu Trang
> NS: 1991
> Quê quán: Tuyên Quang
> Nghề nghiệp: bộ đội- Bộ CHQS tỉnh TQ
> Lý do: Hưởng ứng phong trào _smile emoticon_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------
> a Cute soldier from Tuyen Quang province



Chè Thái, gái Tuyên, bro.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam’s Defence Boom Entices Global Firms*

* *Global Risk Insights
by Jeremy Luedi ,  August 5, 2015* *






_Concerns over China have prompted a massive defence procurement campaign in Vietnam. Hanoi is entering a multitude of contracts and agreements with foreign nations, which has created opportunities for defence firms, as well as a means for Vietnam to engage internationally._

In the wake of increased Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea, Vietnam is undergoing a massive defence-spending boom, as Hanoi seeks to prevent Chinese regional domination. Hanoi’s defence spending has increased 128% since 2005, and 9.6% in 2014 alone, reaching a total of $4.3 billion.

This increased spending is supported by the fact that Vietnam has witnessed sustained, robust growth rates averaging 6.15% since 2000, reaching 6.44% in Q2 2015.

While Vietnam’s expenditure is dwarfed by China’s, Hanoi has undertaken an aggressive procurement strategy with a focus on maritime surveillance and interdiction. These measures are designed to counter Chinese activities in the South China Sea, many of which occur in waters claimed by Vietnam.

Last year’s oil rig crisis brought Sino-Vietnamese relations to a new low. Tensions have continued to simmer this year as Beijing’s aggressive island-building program in the South China Sea has incited strong condemnations from Vietnam and other ASEAN nations.

It is important to note that Vietnam is not simply purchasing equipment, but is making a concerted effort to diversify its defence ties to realize its geo-strategic goals. This stance is a marked departure from Vietnam’s long-standing ‘Three No’s’ (no military alliances, no foreign bases in Vietnam, and no reliance on others when fighting other countries) policy. This new approach offers new opportunities for defence contractors, as Vietnam represents an enticing emerging market.

*Washington Seeks Market Share*

Vietnam’s procurement drive promises lucrative deals, with Vu Tu Thanh, chief Vietnam representative of the U.S.-ASEAN Business Council noting that “there is a surge of interest among American defence contractors.” Slower domestic defence spending has led U.S. firms to eye emerging Asian markets.

Specifically, American firms are hoping to capitalize on regional anti-Chinese sentiment to boost sales. Such a trend also aligns perfectly with American foreign policy interests as Washington seeks to strengthen relations with smaller Asian nations on China’s periphery.

To this end, on April 22nd the U.S. embassy organized a meeting between the Vietnamese military and American contractors, allowing U.S. firms to pitch products to Hanoi. Sources present at the meeting noted the palpable excitement of American companies present, with one company’s representative requesting details about Vietnam’s defence budget, only to be politely rebuffed by Vietnamese military officials.

This private sector enthusiasm is mirrored by Washington’s recent donation of six patrol boats to Vietnam. Indeed, Senator (and war veteran) John McCain’s call for the U.S. to increase weapon sales to Vietnam perfectly highlights the purely pragmatic nature of entire affair.

Vietnam is particularly interested in buying spare parts for its fleet of American UH-1 helicopters, which it acquired in the wake of the American withdrawal in 1973. Historically, Vietnam’s rival has always been China, which has over the millennia invaded its smaller neighbour dozens of times. Consequently, Vietnam is interested in purchasing sophisticated U.S maritime surveillance systems to aid its interdiction of Chinese vessels.

*Vietnam’s Defence Market Diversifies*

While the U.S. is keen to increase market penetration in Vietnam – having partially lifted its weapons bans in October 2014 – it remains a minor player. Vietnam has already signed a deal with long-standing arms supplier Russia for six Kilo-class submarines, as well as two Tarantul-class missile corvettes.

Similarly, Vietnam has signed a military-technical cooperation agreement with Belarus on July 9th. This agreement will facilitate scientific and technological sharing, personnel training, and joint production of certain weapon systems.

Belarus is an obvious partner given its shared familiarity with Russian equipment, a tradition that benefits Minsk’s recent efforts to woo Southeast Asian nations. This agreement with Belarus comes just months after Vietnam signed a free trade agreement with the Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union (EEU).

Importantly, Vietnam has also been fostering the creation of a world-class ship building industry, becoming the fifth largest shipbuilding nation by orders in 2010. The government has made the sector a key priority, seeking to capitalize on Vietnam’s cheap work force and proximity to expanding markets.

As a result Vietnam is also increasingly seeking to procure domestically produced naval vessels. The Hong Ha Shipbuilding Company has already built five TT400 class vessels for the Vietnamese navy. These ships are designed for maritime border patrol, foreign vessel interdiction and anti-smuggling/piracy operations.

*Hanoi Courts the Globe*

Vietnam’s pragmatism is again highlighted by agreements with former colonial powers such as France and Japan. In 2007 Hanoi signed an MoU on Modernizing Technical Equipment with France. This was followed by the initiation in 2010 of annual Vietnam-France Joint Committee on Defence Cooperation meetings.

Furthermore, last year Japan donated six naval vessels to Vietnam, a move that coincided with Tokyo’s loosening of its long-standing arms export ban. This donation boosts pro-Japanese sentiment in Vietnam, as well as encourages Hanoi to purchase Japanese products such as a Kawasaki P-1 maritime surveillance aircraft in the future.

Hanoi’s expansive defence agreement campaign has also prompted the 2015 India-Vietnam joint statement expressing wishes to increase joint training and defence industry cooperation. Last week, Vietnam also concluded talks with Israel to establish an Israeli defence attaché office in Hanoi, with both governments already agreeing to their first joint defence working group meeting in November.

Similarly, this year has already seen a meeting between Vietnamese and South Korean defence ministers, itself the result of deputy level meetings in 2012 and a memorandum of understanding on defence in 2010.

By adopting a pragmatic approach and capitalizing on its growing economic strength, Vietnam is seeking to position itself as a strong regional player to balance against potential local Chinese hegemony. Hanoi’s growing international connections demonstrates that Vietnam’s Communist Party has paid close attention to its modernizing Chinese counter-part.

Vietnam’s Defence Boom Entices Global Firms | Global Risk Insights


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## Viet

_crazy and threatening idea. unthinkable. a U.S. nuclear strike on North Vietnam would have provoked North VN allies at that time, the USSR and China to respond. Especially the Soviet Union. Luckily it was just on paper until the war was over._


*Worst Idea Ever: Dropping Nuclear Bombs During the Vietnam War*

Steve Weintz
August 23, 2015





_A crazy idea that would have broken the "nuclear taboo." _


By February 1966, frustration with the U.S. bombing campaign against North Vietnam rose high enough to spur talk of going nuclear. Throughout the Vietnam War, such talk was mostly just that, but in 1966, it worried certain people enough to gin up a classified study of tactical nuclear weapons use in Southeast Asia. The study's authors—members of the JASONs, the Pentagon's "wise men"—concluded that any way you looked at it, nukes in 'Nam were a very bad idea.

The JASONs were and are highly respected within the Defense Department. Defense consultants drawn from the cream of academia, they had the Pentagon's ear and the freedom to choose their research topics. Early in 1966 four of them—chemistry professor Robert Gomer, quantum physicist Steven Weinberg, particle physicist Courtenay Wright, and mathematician Freeman Dyson—decided to look into the the use of nukes in Vietnam for that summer's study.

According to Seymour Deitchman, who served with the Institute for Defense Analysis, the organization that supported the JASONs, "...there had been not infrequent talk among some of the military people involved in planning the war effort, with whom I had contact, that 'a few nukes' dropped on strategic locations, such as the Mu Gia pass through the mountainous barrier along the North Vietnamese-Laotian border, would close that pass (and others) for good."

Freeman Dyson recalled, "We were prompted to write this report by some remarks we heard at an informal party, probably in Spring 1966. A high-ranking military officer with access to President Johnson was heard to say, ‘It might be a good idea to toss in a nuke from time to time, just to keep the other side guessing.’ We had no way to tell whether the speaker was joking or serious. Just in case he was serious, we decided to do our study."

All four men entered the project believing that nuclear weapons would only make a brutal war more terrible. But they faced a rhetorical dilemma: if they addressed ethical and moral issues around tactical nuke use, they risked being dismissed as "soft" and unreliable. Therefore, they chose to explicitly exclude ethical and moral issues and focus solely on military and political ramifications. Steven Weinberg said the analysis was "…honestly done, but I have to admit that its conclusions were pretty much what we expected from the beginning."

Those conclusions were eye-opening. Although a RAND Corporation study estimated that one tactical nuclear weapon equaled twelve conventional bombing attacks, the JASONs concluded that an all-nuclear “rolling thunder”–style bombing campaign would require _3000 tactical nukes a year_. Not even the massive U.S. nuclear production complex could support that kind of use.

Even with such awesome firepower, the results looked unsatisfying. Wargames played under Big War conditions—massed troop and armor concentrations in Europe—indicated that each nuke would only kill one hundred soldiers. Attacks against small, dispersed forces moving under jungle cover looked even less effective.

Mountain passes along the Ho Chi Minh Trail could be shut down and large areas of forest blown down by tactical nukes very effectively, but only until the Vietnamese cleared new paths. Maintaining damage and radiation levels would require repeated nuclear attacks and as one JASON said, "a tree only falls once."

Tactical nukes could destroy tunnel systems, but required precise targeting. If targeting were that precise why not just use conventional B-52 strikes? Said former CIA analyst Daniel Ellsberg, "If you don’t have a target for B-52s, you don’t have a target for nuclears."

In sum, the JASONs concluded that unilateral U.S. use of tactical nukes wouldn't make much of a difference to the war effort. It could, however, provoke some very nasty consequences. Says historian Alex Wellerstein, "Since World War II, the US has the strongest interest in not breaking the 'nuclear taboo' because once nukes start becoming normalized, the US usually stands to lose the most, or at least a lot."

U.S. nuclear strikes in Vietnam might have compelled the USSR and/or China to respond. The Soviet Union could not afford another loss of face only four years after the Cuban Missile Crisis and might well have supplied North Vietnam with tactical nukes. Such weapons, the JASONs noted, were just the sort of military forces the U.S. deployed to Vietnam in large bases and ports and large troop concentrations.

If weapons comparable to the Honest John battlefield missile or the Davy Crockett nuclear bazooka made it into Viet Cong hands the results would have been catastrophic. "If about 100 weapons of 10-KT yield each could be delivered from base parameters onto all 70 [US] target areas in a coordinated strike," wrote the JASONs, "_the U.S. fighting capability in Vietnam would be essentially annihilated _[emphasis added]."

Even a few VC retaliatory nukes fired from time to time rather than all at once would have seriously degraded U.S. military capacity in Vietnam. But U.S. prestige would take far more damage. "The effect of first use on world opinion in general and on our Allies in particular would be extremely unfavorable," the study concluded.

The study's authors made another prescient observation: U.S. use of nukes in Vietnam against a local insurgency and a defiant state would have taught the same lesson learned by North Korea and Iran. Only with one's own nukes could one face up to the United States. Proliferation would explode. The thought of nuclear-armed guerrilla movements, which really worried the JASONs, still frightens us today.

When he received the report, Defense Secretary McNamara dispensed with a briefing and asked pointed questions. By all accounts, further consideration of nukes in 'Nam ended there. The JASONs’ hope that their study's findings would take nukes off the table seemed borne out.

The Tet Offensive in 1968 demonstrated what Communist resolve and capacity could achieve with conventional forces. Had nuclear weapons been introduced into the conflict by both sides, the United States would have faced the JASONs’ worst-case scenario. Apparently some talk picked up again about using nukes to relieve the siege at Khe Sanh, but it went as far as similar talk in 1954 about Dien Bien Phu. Despite all the frustration with the war and the desire to pull out the big guns, the nuclear taboo held.

Nuclear weapons still engender deep contradictions. The most powerful weapons ever devised serve no other purpose but to prevent their use by others. Some people in Washington, Moscow and Islamabad may still view them simply as extraordinary munitions and tilt towards their use, but the arguments the JASONs made in 1966 still hold up. And casual talk about "tossing a few nukes around" is as crazy now as it was then.

_Steve Weintz is a writer, filmmaker, artist, animator. Former firefighter, archaeologist, stuntman._


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## Viet

Kilo Submarine #5: 186 Đà Nẵng on sea trail. to be delivered end of this year. sooner than expected.


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## Thao Nguyen

Yorozuya said:


> They are not going to finance anything. They themselve are fighting to increase or keep the budget to maintain their military. We just need them to lift the arms embargo, carry out joint-development that wont cost them anything but might even make them money since their companies would get paid. We can build the platform in VN.
> 
> For example, something like this Ambassador MK 3 FAC. Its similar to our Molniya but more modern with better air defence:
> 
> 600 tons
> 41 knots top speed.
> 8 Harpoons
> Phalanx
> RIM-116 SAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This Ezzat class FAC was designed and built by an American company for the Eqyptian navy. All we need is a joint-developmemt project with them for similar platforms and we can just build it at our domestic shipyard to save cost.


then get RIM-116 install on Molnya 
I think VN will make a FAC design of ours own


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> well i would like to see missile in those pod too............


Palma, equipped with small-size short-range anti-aircraft missiles (SAM), a gun-missile combined system currently installed on the Gepards, aiming to defeat enemy (sea skimming) anti-ship missiles. I think the missiles are stored and will be installed when the ship depards for patrol. but carlosa dislikes the system because it is too weak


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## Aqsuperman

Currently our most modern and in sufficent quantity anti-ship weapon for ship-borne plafform , with the upraded range , executing a guerrilla tactics on the sea will be easier


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## Viet

What is Russia´s standpoint or position on the mess in South China Sea? 

it is not only this one interesting article from The Diplomat revealing how Moskow thinks and acts. In short, Russia remains neutral in the dispute between VN and CN, supporting neither side in order to avoid antagonizing a party. for Vietnam, most important, Russia is not willing to accept chinese claim and dominance in the SC Sea. Never.

In an interview with NewsAsia on August 5th, Russia Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov was asked if Russia supports China claims in the SC Sea? his answer is a diplomatic speech, one may read what he says and what he does not. in this statement I can´t find any wordings explicit supporting chinese claims. Least, chinese bla bla bla "accepting china historic facts". Thank you Russia!

Sergey Lavrov gives interview to NewsAsia (+ transcript!) | The Vineyard of the Saker






Question: Given the situation the South China Sea with a certain amount of tension some political watchers would say that the joint military drills might indicate that China supports that Russia supports China’s territorial claims in the South China Sea. Does Russia support China claims in the South China Sea?


Lavrov: This, this political analysts should better study what our position is which is not secret, it is publicly presented. We are strongly in favor of any dispute in South China Sea, in the East China Sea in any sea for that matter to be, to be resolved on the basis of the international law including first the full 1982 Below the Sea Convention on the basis of the declarations signed between China and Russia and on this basis the countries directly involved in any dispute should find mutually acceptable solution without any outside interference. We don’t believe that, that attempts to internationalize the disputes are really healthy. Such attempts normally are intended not to help the countries in question to move closer but rather to help some, to gain some political scores internationally, and I don’t believe this is serious, I don’t believe this is fair.




*China Seeks Joint Pacific Security Vision With Russia*
The two countries have started coordinating moves in the region, but Russia remains silent on the South China Sea.





By Shannon Tiezzi
August 06, 2015

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi met with his Russian counterpart, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, on Wednesday, on the sidelines of the ASEAN Foreign Minister’s Meeting in Kuala Lumpur. According to _Xinhua__, _Wang told Lavrov that “China is willing to strengthen the strategic coordination with Russia on Asia-Pacific affairs to promote a common, cooperative, comprehensive and sustainable Asian security concept and jointly safeguard regional peace, stability and development.” It’s the latest indication that China is seeking to leverage Russia’s growing military presence in the region to advance its own security and defense interests in the Pacific.

China and Russia already have a history of cooperation in Central Asia, defying predictions that competition over that region will derail their relationship. The two countries function as co-leaders in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, and have even linked together their economic visions for the region (Russia’s Eurasian Economic Union and China’s Silk Road Economic Belt). When it comes to the Pacific Ocean region, however, Russia and China’s joint activities have been slower to develop – but that’s starting to change.

In part, that’s due to an increased Russia presence in the Pacific, particularly on the military front. In April, U.S. Admiral Samuel Locklear, then the commander of Pacific Command, told the House Armed Services Committee that Russia “has returned to … nearly a Cold War level of activity” in the Pacific. Russia is improving is strategic nuclear deterrent and submarine force on its eastern coast, in the north Pacific, Locklear said, and is “exerting increased influence not only in the Arctic… but also in Northeast Asia.” Russia has also been increasing its military presence in Southeast Asia, Locklear added.

Japan has also noted increased Russian military activity. In fiscal year 2014, Japan scrambled fighter jets 943 times, a 16 percent increase over FY2013 and the second-highest rate ever. That increase back to Cold War levels was partly due to increased flights by Chinese fighters near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea, but equally due to Russian bombers and patrol planes passing close to Japan’s north. In fact, Chinese aircraft accounted for under half (464) of the scrambles, Japan’s Defense Ministry reported. Scrambles to meet Russian aircraft were up roughly four times from 2004 levels.

Russia also recently announced that it will build up its military and civilian infrastructure on the Kuril Islands, which Japan claims at the Northern Territories, meaning Japan can expect Russia’s military presence in the north Pacific to continue to grow.

China, meanwhile, seems to welcome this increased Russian presence. In addition to stepping up joint military exercises, including a planned naval drill to be held in the Sea of Japan later in August, China and Russia held their first-ever meeting specifically dedicated to the topic of Northeast Asian security issues in April. At the meeting, the two countries “agreed to enhance dialogues and coordination to promote peace and stability in the region,” according to _Xinhua__. _

For China, a more active Russian approach toward the Asia-Pacific provides a useful counterweight to U.S. influence in the region. Beijing also appreciates Moscow’s support on security issues, where the two countries often see eye-to-eye. Russia and China joined voices to object to the deployment of the U.S. missile defense system THAAD on South Korea, for example.

Still, despite Wang and Lavrov’s remarks about cooperation, China is unlikely to win rhetorical backing from Russia on the issue that will draw the most attention at this year’s ASEAN meetings: the South China Sea disputes. China has come under heavy criticism from Southeast Asian countries, Japan, and the United States for its land reclamation activities. Russia, meanwhile, has refrained from defending China – and has even sold six _Kilo_-class submarines to Vietnam, one of the rival claimants.

It’s precisely this close relationship with Vietnam that has prevented Moscow from giving moral support to Beijing on the disputes. As Anton Tsvetov, media and government relations manager at the Russian International Affairs Council, put it in a recent article for _Russia Direct__, 
_
_“_Russia’s possible involvement in the South China Sea dispute would have been a no-brainer if another vocal claimant –Vietnam — weren’t also the country’s closest partner in Southeast Asia.” In its attempt to avoid antagonizing either China or Vietnam, Russia has adopted what Tsvetov describes as an almost “non-existent” position on the disputes. As a sign of Russia’s tightrope walk, there are plans for Russia to hold joint naval exercises in the South China Sea next year. with its “Asia-Pacific allies,” which would likely include not only China but Vietnam as well.

While China would appreciate diplomatic cover from Russia on the South China Sea issue, such support is not forthcoming. Still, Beijing hopes to work with Moscow more productively on Northeast Asian issues. Russia’s support will be crucial as China tries to advance its own security vision for the Asia-Pacific region — a vision where the United States plays a much diminished role.

China Seeks Joint Pacific Security Vision With Russia | The Diplomat


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## Viet

two of many domestic produced toys in military factories:

view finders






night vision goggles

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## Aqsuperman

Ipad-controlled Minigun :v


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## Viet

Rehearsal for the upcoming event marking the National Day September 2, in Hanoi´s Ba Dinh Square. Back in history, on September 2, 1945, at Ba Đình Square, Ho Chi Minh,
leader of the communist Viet Minh organization, declared Vietnam's independence under the new name of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRVN), taking over the power from the collapsing Japanese army in the country.


Thủ tướng yêu cầu: Đảm bảo An toàn giao thông dịp Quốc Khánh 2/9


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## Viet

a 21-gun salute will be fired from the Thang Long Royal Citadel
122mm field artillery (M30)


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## 大汉奸柳传志

Viet said:


>



should send some of dat girlz to our parade


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## Aqsuperman

Maybe in the next eon 

A welcome party from troops station in island to visitor from inland

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## Viet

utp45 said:


> should send some of dat girlz to our parade


Forget it. We would have angered the japanese if we send army troop. You can't deny that you stage an overly nationalistic anti-japanese parade. Try a more neutral and a peaceful parade next time. Cheers!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Forget it. We would have angered the japanese if we send army troop. You can't deny that you stage an overly nationalistic anti-japanese parade. Try a more neutral and a peaceful parade next time. Cheers!



But your President is still participating our parade, so you shouldn't whine about it.

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## Viet

Following tradition of great sea powers in the world,* Lê Quý Đôn, *the first ever training sailing ship of Vietnam Navy is set on sea trails. The ship, named after a 18th-century Vietnamese philosopher, was built by Marine Projects, a Poland´s shipyard. 

Specs: keel laying on 2nd July 2014, displacement 950 tonnes, length 67 meters, hull dimensions of 58.3 x 10 x 4 meters. Ship’s engine room is fitted with the Caterpillar C32 engine which allows the vessel to reach speeds of 12 knots, without using the sails. 1,400 square meters of sails, three masts, each 41 meters tall. manned by a crew of 30, additionally 80 recruits may stay on board in 12-14 persons cabins. The ship also features a training room equipped with a proper IT infrastructure. can stay on sea for 45 days.


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## Viet

Sea trails in the Waters of the Gdansk Bay





























ChineseTiger1986 said:


> But your President is still participating our parade, so you shouldn't whine about it.


why should I whine? no reason for it. just a logical step that VN head of state is coming when invited. but nobody in VN with a clear mind would send a army unit to China to participate a victory parade that intimidates and angers Japan. What do you think how the japanese people think when seeing Vietnamese soldiers in Beijing marching with the PLA?

If you stage a celebration with a more neutral tone, we would have participated. so maybe next time.

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


>



Blue berets is a Vietnamese Airborne Forces?


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> two of many domestic produced toys in military factories:
> 
> view finders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> night vision goggles



Can you guys send me one? I need to see at night when i go take a pee.


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## Aqsuperman

Lol a chinese guy want Vietnam to send army troops over , we said no then another chinese come and said "dont whine about it" :v some typical Chinese we have here right ? 




Barmaley said:


> Blue berets is a Vietnamese Airborne Forces?


well blue berets at this time may mean Vietnam units that are in training to particaipate UN mission...............but they can also mean paratrooper if we follown VDV tradition , at this point too early to say actually , we should know when the parade schedule plan come out

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> Blue berets is a Vietnamese Airborne Forces?


I believe those are airborne units. our peacekeeping force is still at infancy. those being sent to South Sudan and so belong to logistics not to fighing unit. though the UN urges VN to do more contributions.

another topic:
what a coincidence: India media reports VN looks for buying 14 fast patrol boats
Vietnam Looking to Buy 14 Fast Patrol Boats From India
and the _Sarang_, a Indian Coast Guard Vessel is on a current visit to Saigon. Who knows perhaps we are interested of such class. Built in 1999, length 104 m, displacement 2.300 tones, speed 39 km/h.
_



_












_



_

_



_

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## Aqsuperman

look like Saryu-class is coming to play


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## Aqsuperman

a M14 battle rifle in police service........or something like it :v


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## JaiMin

Background Briefing: Vietnam’s Military Modernization and National Defence Industry, Carlyle A. Thayer August 20, 2015

We request you assessment on what you see as a focus for Vietnam's defence modernization efforts; and if you see the US defense industry playing a role (or not, due to export restrictions).
Q1. What's going on in Vietnam's indigenous industry?

ANSWER: Vietnam is coming to the end of its present five-year planning cycle. Early next year new priorities for the next five years (2016-2020) will be announced when the Vietnam Communist Party convenes its twelfth national party congress. After the party congress the Ministry of National Defense will issue an update of its last White Paper released in late 2009.

In January 2011, at the eleventh national party congress, the Political Report listed among the objectives for the next five years “to further push the development of defense and security technology industry” and “to strengthen scientific research in military and security capable of defeating hi- tech wars from enemy forces.”

The Political Report identified modernization of the armed forces and defense industry as one of the five key national objectives for the next five years (2011- 2015). Priority was assigned to ensuring “that the armed forces incrementally have access to modern equipment with priority being given to the navy, air force, security, intelligence, and mobile police forces.”

In his address to the eleventh congress Lt. Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich, head of the Vietnam People’s Army’s General Political Department, specifically identified “armaments, ammunition and technical means” as key priorities. Speaking on the sidelines of the congress, General Phung Quang Thanh, Minister of National Defense, included electronic and technical reconnaissance among the priorities for defense intelligence.

According to Vietnam’s latest Defense White Paper, issued three years after the eleventh congress, priorities for Vietnam’s defense industry include the maintenance, manufacture, improvement and upgrading of weapons and equipment.

Vietnam has signed a wide number of Memoranda of Understanding (MOU) and Defense Cooperation Agreements (DCA) with foreign states. These agreements reveal that Vietnam is seeking assistance, services and equipment acquisitions in six major areas: the storage, maintenance and upgrading of existing military equipment; modernization of platforms and equipment for the army, navy and air force; modernization of Vietnam’s defense industry; maritime logistics capacity in the South China Sea; mitigating the effects of natural disasters, notably flooding and storm damage, and search and rescue at sea; and finally, training for future involvement in UN-endorsed peacekeeping operations.

Vietnam’s defense MOUs and DCAs usually contain general clauses on bilateral defense industry cooperation in five priority areas: promotion of defense research and technology transfer; co-production of weapons, maintenance, upgrading and repair; technical support; and personnel training. Vietnam’s arms purchase contracts invariably include provisions for technology transfer as well training and services.

For example, Vietnam has approached Russia and India for assistance in co-producing the BrahMos anti- ship cruise missile, and the repair and maintenance of naval vessels. Vietnam also has supported a Malaysian proposal to promote defense industry cooperation among ASEAN members. Vietnam and Indonesia have discussed coproducing fixed wing transports, maritime surveillance aircraft and multirole helicopters. Vietnam and the Philippines have discussed cooperation in the manufacture of various types of unspecified military equipment. Vietnam has approached Singapore for assistance in the safe storage of ordnance and munitions. Vietnam’s defense industry is capable of constructing small naval patrol craft.

In 2011, for example, the Hong Ha defense shipbuilding company successfully launched Vietnam’s first indigenously constructed naval vessels, a 54-metre 400-ton fast patrol boat (Project TT400TP) and a 72-meter troop transport vessel. The patrol boat was based on a Russian design and constructed by Vietnamese engineers who had been sent to Russia to study shipbuilding Since 2012 Vietnam and Russia have reportedly co-produced a modified Uran (Switchblade) anti-ship missiles in Vietnam. The modifications could enable Vietnam to fit the missile to aircraft, helicopters, ships and coastal batteries.

In June 2012, it was reported in the Vietnamese press that the Military Institute of Technology had mastered the production of a key oxidizing ingredient for fuel used by Vietnam’s R-17E (Scud) missile force. A Role for U.S. Defense Industry? The Obama Administration has relaxed ITAR (International Trafficking in Arms Regulations) on the sale of lethal weapons to Vietnam on a case-by-case basis. The U.S. has put emphasis maritime security and weapons of a defensive nature suitable for Vietnam’s Coast Guard. In June this year Secretary of Defense Ash Carter and Minister of National Defence General Thanh signed a U.S.-Viet Nam Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations. This document included twelve areas of defense cooperation. The fourth area read: 3 “expand defense trade between our countries, potentially influencing cooperation in the production of new technologies and equipment, where possible under current law and policy restrictions. Also that month it was reported that Vietnam was looking beyond Russia to purchase maritime patrol aircraft, unarmed drones and jet fighters and has been contact with Lockheed Martin and Boeing. It is unlikely that Vietnam would want to or be able to purchase jet fighter aircraft from the United States. But it is likely that U.S. defense firms could assist Vietnam with maritime patrol aircraft, unarmed drones, and naval patrol craft. Lockheed Martin has promoted the possible sale of its Sea Hercules maritime patrol aircraft to Vietnam. Boeing has publicly indicated that it has capabilities in “intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance platforms that may meet Vietnam’s modernization needs.”

For example, Boeing could sell its maritime surveillance technology to Vietnam for installation on a business aircraft converted for maritime reconnaissance. The U.S. government has announced it will provide $18 million to provide patrol boats for Vietnam’s Coast Guard. The U.S. Defense Department also has announced $425 million funding for its Pacific Partnership program. The funding will cover “equipment, supplies, training and small-scale construction.” These are very modest initiatives. Funding for the Pacific Partnership program will be made in five installments: $50 million for FY 2016; $75 million for FY 2017; and $100 million for FY 2018, 2019 and 2020. These funds will be spread out among five countries - Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam.

However, there are several niche area of potential defense trade including coastal radar, satellite communications, maritime logistics, maintenance, and electronics. More problematic areas of defense trade include air defense systems for naval ships and anti-submarine warfare technology. It now seems likely that Vietnam’s desire to purchase four Sigma-class corvettes from the Dutch Damen Group, with two corvettes to be produced in Vietnam, has fallen through over financil arrangements. This development probably does not open doors for U.S. defense industry because the armament Vietnam requires would not be provided under current legislation.


Suggested citation: Carlyle A. Thayer, “Vietnam’s Military Modernization and National Defence Industry,” Thayer Consultancy Background Brief, August 20, 2015. All background briefs are posted on Scribd.com (search for Thayer). To remove yourself from the mailing list type UNSUBSCRIBE in the Subject heading and hit the Reply key. Thayer Consultancy provides political analysis of current regional security issues and other research support to selected clients. Thayer Consultancy was officially registered as a small business in Australia in 2002.

Interesting answered of Thayer

@Viet, @Yorozuya, @NiceGuy , @xesy , @DaiViet, @Carlosa, @vtnsx


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## Viet

jaimin, at presence we have a shortage of fighter jets to secure the airspace against intruders. second, to protect our maritime domains we need presence at sea. right now we have the capacity and capability to build some decent vessels for the navy. mostly small to medium size. what lacks of right now is the capacity of assembling frigates and destroyers. not to mention subsmarines. in short, we have too little money and resources.I hope we can do it in the future with the help and assistance of russia or america or korea or japan. a growing economy can surely help to increase our army budget. but we shouldn´t complain but work harder.

landing ship _Roro 5612 class_





patrol boat TT 200 class






patrol boat _TT 400 class_





patrol boat _DN 2000 class_






troop transport ship K 122 class





gunship _TT400TP class_





hospital ship Z189 class





corvette _Molniya class_

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## Viet

*Coastal Defence*
VN 4 layered shore based missiles against enemy ships

*Termit*






*Redut*






*Yakhont*












and the latest acquisition of antiship missile:
*Bal-E*

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## Ahmed_Vohra

Nice thread. I was wondering what is the extent of Vietnam-India relations? Is it similar to our relations with China?


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## Viet

Ahmed_Vohra said:


> Nice thread. I was wondering what is the extent of Vietnam-India relations? Is it similar to our relations with China?


if you want to hear my personal assessment, here is it:

I wish Vietnam-India relation would be as robust as China to Pakistan. Right now, it is more a symbolic than practical thing. one can say it, just a shadow of China-Pakistan relation. for instance you have with the chinese $46 billion common economic corridor, cooperations in joint development of weapons and other stuffs, while we with India virtually nothing. even our wish of acquisition of brahmos antiship missile for our SU-30s and warships are not coming. sure, there are cooperations in the economy and defence. but it is too little. there are rooms for improvement. perhaps India is not wanting to anger the chinese too much. hesitation everywhere.

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## Aqsuperman

a RAM-2000 with 2 PKM and 1 DSHK , this guy also present in the military technology show recently (although this vehicle basically not our :v )


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## Viet

another candidate for our aging MIG-21s. I wish the US Central Bank lends us for a month one of their printing machines of US dollar notes. things would be easier.

Russia's MiG-35 to Replace Vietnam's Fighter Jets / Russian peacekeeper







26.08.2015 16:42


Southeast Asian countries are expressing growing interest in the new MiG-35 fighter jets. Russia may sell to Vietnam new jets as a replacement for its aging fighter jets.

The head of MiG aircraft manufacturer Sergei Korotkov said Russia's MiG-35 multirole fighter jets may be coming to Vietnam, where the useful life of the country's third-generation MiG-21 fighter jets is coming to an end. According to Korotkov, Southeast Asia is an "interesting region" for the aircraft manufacturer when it comes to prospective sales.

"According to our evaluation, there are definite prospects for MiG-35s in Vietnam, where the expected life of MiG-21 fighter jets is coming to an end," Korotkov said.

Tags: fighter jets Korotkov MiG-35 Russia Vietnam

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## Aqsuperman

2 more days to the 2/9 parade , 21 blank artillery rounds will be fire to commemorate this event


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## Viet

Rehearsal for the National Day. Rapid Reaction Force female policewomen with Heckler & Koch assault rifles MP5-A3, produced under license in Pakistan.


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## Viet

preparing artillery guns for the 21 salute


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## Viet

August 30, Joint Vietnam-India Coast Guards excercise in the SC Sea.


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## Viet

A radar unit


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## Aqsuperman

a tail of a Mi-17...........and a Skyraider in the hangar :v


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## William Hung

What are the feedbacks about the new Galil Ace?

Do soldiers prefer it more than the AK? Is the Galil more reliable or accurate than the AK?


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> *Coastal Defence*
> VN 4 layered shore based missiles against enemy ships
> 
> *Termit*
> 
> *Redut*
> 
> *Yakhont*
> 
> and the latest acquisition of antiship missile:
> *Bal-E*







1 more layer


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## Viet

yea that is it, how I can forget this baby: EXTRA, a israeli made high precise guided missile. range of 150 km, CEP of about 10 m, stationed on islands in the SC Sea. that is the surprise for our uninvited guests.












guided by GPS and Orbiter 2 drone

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## Aqsuperman

well technically wise *, *Gali Ace 31 and 32 both have lower muzzle velocity than AK so the bullets will drop more than AK , but since its a development from AK so it reliability is high , about the precison we probably need some re-training , the Gali Ace also use the same ammuniton and the magazine from AK so that wont create too much problem for te logicstics ............but beyond these its pretty much up to soldier preference to say its good or not

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## Aqsuperman

another RAM 2000 but armed with a RPD


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## William Hung

If the MoD decide to integrate the new Orbiter 1k kamikaze uav into the EXTRA system, it will even be more dangerous.

Aeronautics introduces Orbiter 1K loitering munition


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## Viet

on patrol, Osa-class missile boat


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## William Hung

Ah I forgot about this old German documentary about the Viet Cong. @Viet can you help translate it? It is all in German with no subtitle.


























@Aqsuperman it will be good if you know someone that can embed subtitles onto the clips and re-upload it so we can understand this documentary.

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## Aqsuperman

Sorry guys , those clips look interesting but if it either in Russian or English then maybe we can find somebody but German is quite tough 

a picture i found around internet , a monument of the Armored Forces


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## Viet

yoro, I will translate the video later.


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## William Hung

Cool.

I like the part when the elephant was pushing the broke down truck.


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## Aqsuperman

Good to hear it 

a M113 getting ready to move out at short notice , even when the parade is going on , the Armed Force is always ready


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## Viet

beautiful pictures of the parade, National Day September 2.
it is said the largest military parade in history.

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Cool.
> 
> I like the part when the elephant was pushing the broke down truck.


which part from the video is it?
it is a lot of german texts I will need sometime to translate all. too busy right now. peter scholl-latour was one of the most famous german reporters of vietnam war, covering stories of vietnam going to wars against france, america and china.

der tod im reisfeld (the death in rice field)
30 jahre krieg in indochina (30 year indochina war)

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## Viet

September 2, flag-raising ceremony in Monaco marks Vietnam’s IHO membership, the International Hydrographic Organization.

Vietnam Joins International Maritime Grouping | The Diplomat


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## frequency

A free style military is better than a perfect form military governed by rules.


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## Viet

developed by Vietnam´s Military Technical Academy, holographic viewfinder for M79 grenade launcher
_








































_


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## Viet

_




Hologram được thu lại và đưa vào máy tính phân tích.




Kính ngắm hologram được chế tạo xong.




Các kỹ sư cố định kính ngắm chắc chắn vào nòng súng M79.




Hologram trên kính ngắm.




Chiếc bia này phản ảnh kết quả thử nghiệm trong suốt thời gian nghiên cứu.




Kính ngắm hologram được lắp vào súng M79 và mang ra thử nghiệm ngoài thực tế.



_


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## Aqsuperman

old picture of a BTR-152 armed with 1 14.5mm KPV and 1 7.62mm PKM , these vehicle have been in extensive service since the later stage of the Vietnam war to many conflict and skirmish after that , some vehicle , together with BTR-60 , have been transfered to other duty


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## Viet

the video 1/5 featured scenes of final period of the vietnam war, in the sommer of 1973. we remmember, two months after the signing of the Vietnam peace agreement in Paris, the last U.S. combat troops left South Vietnam. North Vietnam released the remaining American prisoners of war (POW). The US armed forces direct eight-year intervention in the Vietnam War came at an end. some 7,000 U.S. civilian employees remained behind to aid South Vietnam in conducting what looked to be a fierce and ongoing war with communist North Vietnam.

Peter Sholl-Latour knew Vietnam very well since the days of the French colonial period. here he reported of his 8 day being captured by the vietcong, when he and his team were on the highway 13 to cambodian border. Peter spoke to a north vietnamese propaganda officer, and interviewed a bit. both in english and vietnamese.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> the video 1/5 featured scenes of final period of the vietnam war, in the sommer of 1973. we remmember, two months after the signing of the Vietnam peace agreement in Paris, the last U.S. combat troops left South Vietnam. North Vietnam released the remaining American prisoners of war (POW). The US armed forces direct eight-year intervention in the Vietnam War came at an end. some 7,000 U.S. civilian employees remained behind to aid South Vietnam in conducting what looked to be a fierce and ongoing war with communist North Vietnam.
> 
> Peter Sholl-Latour knew Vietnam very well since the days of the French colonial period. here he reported of his 8 day being captured by the vietcong, when he and his team were on the highway 13 to cambodian border. Peter spoke to a north vietnamese propaganda officer, and interviewed a bit. both in english and vietnamese.



Wow thanks bro. I thought it was a planned visit, not that they were captured. In one of the clip, I could hear one of the VC officer saying “we welcome our international friends...”. They looked very relaxed and calm lol. Very interesting.


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## Aqsuperman

well a bit rusty but still quite effective


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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Wow thanks bro. I thought it was a planned visit, not that they were captured. In one of the clip, I could hear one of the VC officer saying “we welcome our international friends...”. They looked very relaxed and calm lol. Very interesting.


the vietcong stopped peter and his crew when they unintentionally crossed an area close to cambodia border, not under the control of south vietnamese troops. peter was interrogated, but it was an impossible thing, as the vietcong did not speak english. nor german. a english translator came later. at the beginning the german crew was suspected as enemy.


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## Aqsuperman

a bit like Technical but well the Hummer is the civillian verison of Humvee so i guess this will be good enough for scouting around the battlefield


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## Viet

this rumour was out there sometimes ago, but now thing seems to become reality. 4,000 tones vessels for the Coast Guard. DN-4000 class. bigger and more powerful than anything in our inventory. to be assembled by *Sông Thu *shipyard. 

Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam sẽ có tàu tuần tra 4.000 tấn - Tin tức Quân sự


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## Aqsuperman

Just a normal day in Vietnam :v


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## Viet

Song Thu Shipyard, here with DN-2000 class patrol vessel. 2,500 tons full load. the yard is said will produce the next generation of patrol vessels DN-4000 class. appr about 4,500 tons full load. with design and technical assistance of Damen company (Netherlands).

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## Viet

_nearly 60,000 US servicemen died during the Vietnam war, and one women: Sharon Lane, a military nurse._


Saluting the legacy of Sharon Lane, a nurse killed in Vietnam | cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Today, Sharon Lane would have been 72 if she hadn't been killed during a rocket barrage that hit the Army's 312th Evacuation Hospital in Chu Lai, Vietnam, in 1969.









By  Brian Albrecht, The Plain Dealer 
Follow on Twitter
on July 07, 2015 at 7:30 AM, updated July 08, 2015 at 7:42 AM

If people remember Lane, it may be as the only military nurse slain as a direct result of enemy fire in that war. But there are others who remember a more life-affirming legacy of this 1961 Canton South High School graduate who became a nurse, an Army officer and an example for those who followed her in both careers.

Growing up, "she was always caring for someone or something," her mother, Kay Lane, once told a newspaper reporter. "She always had a cat or dog or some animal that she was taking care of."

So it probably wasn't surprising that she attended the Aultman School of Nursing in Canton after high school. In 1968, she joined the U.S. Army Nurse Corps Reserves.

Philip Bigler, author of the 1996 book "Hostile Fire: The Life and Death of First Lieutenant Sharon Lane," wrote that the appeal of possible travel and work at different military posts might have drawn her to the service.

After her training and a stint at Fitzsimons Army Medical Center in Denver, Colorado, Lane volunteered for nursing duty in Vietnam. Some 11,000 American women were stationed in Vietnam during the war, most serving as military nurses. Eight died, from various causes.

In a letter that Lane wrote, cited in Bigler's book, she said, "There, at least, you are busy 12 hours a day, six or seven days a week, and you learn everything."

And she did, as Lane noted in letters home that described her long days of work after arriving at the 312th Evacuation Hospital in April, 1969. She wound up assigned to hospital wards that treated war-injured and ill Vietnamese, sometimes including captured enemy soldiers, but mostly women and children.

She became well aware of the risks of nursing in a combat zone, including rocket and mortar attacks on the American base where the hospital was located.

In a letter home, cited in Bigler's book, Lane said that during one barrage, "We got all of the patients under the beds that we could and put mattresses over the ones in traction, etc. Very interesting place but hardly anyone here is scared. It is just like part of the job."

That part of the job tragically caught up with her on June 8, 1969, just as her night shift was ending. A 122mm rocket slammed into the ward at sunrise, killing Lane and a 12-year-old Vietnamese girl. They suffered shrapnel wounds to the neck. The rocket injured 27 others.

In her last letter home, four days before her death, Lane noted, "Still very quiet around here. Haven't gotten mortared for (a) couple of weeks now."

Lane was buried at Sunset Hills Cemetery in Canton and posthumously awarded the Purple Heart, Bronze Star, Vietnam Service Medal, National Defense Medal, and Vietnamese Gallantry Cross. She was subsequently inducted in the Ohio Veterans Hall of Fame and awarded the Ohio Medal of Valor.

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## Aqsuperman

until the Yak-130.........


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## cnleio

If Vietnam could import weapons from China (except Nuke & DF ballistic missile) ... with curren Vietnam military expenditure each year, what u conside to purchase from China Armory ? Any interest, pls purchasing list !


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> If Vietnam could import weapons from China (except Nuke & DF ballistic missile) ... with curren Vietnam military expenditure each year, what u conside to purchase from China Armory ? Any interest, pls purchasing list !


that is an unrealistic scenario considering the tension between the two countries right now. that must be solved before any cooperation or purchase of arms to happen.


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> that is an unrealistic scenario considering the tension between the two countries right now. that must be solved before any cooperation or purchase of arms to happen.


I didn't see what tension between both nations, border trades continue & still import 'Made in China', still watching Chinese entertainment & TV shows, Chinese novels still popular in Vietnam ... where's the tension right now ? Only in SCS water. When there's no any Chinese appeare on Vietnamese TV screen, that's a tension.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> I didn't see what tension between both nations, border trades continue & still import 'Made in China', still watching Chinese entertainment & TV shows, Chinese novels still popular in Vietnam ... where's the tension right now ? Only in SCS water.


you appears looking through a rose colored glass. yes, most importantly political tension, 9 dash line in the south china sea. even if both countries can solve the sea crisis somehow in the future, it would be just a small step before solving another deep crisis: the centuries old distrust between vietnam and china.

as long as the political tension exists, we will continue working on our defence and military prowess.

Arup Raha, India´s Airforce Chief, Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee comes to a 3-day visit to Hanoi on September 10, 2015. looking for ways strengthen both countries airforces.





General Surapun Wongthai of Thai Royal Armed Forces on a visit to Vietnam army headquarter. Sept 11. I believe since the Thai army took over the power in the country, our relation to the siamese has seen a lot of improvement.

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## Viet

Special Policewomen, with Heckler & Koch Rifles


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## ComradeNam

Pointless to post stuffs on this forum. Vietnamese members got banned most of. Now this forum flooding with Chinese propagandas news,get out of here before you being brainwashed by them.

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## Viet

ComradeNam said:


> Pointless to post stuffs on this forum. Vietnamese members got banned most of. Now this forum flooding with Chinese propagandas news,get out of here before you being *brainwashed *by them.


will it alter anything if I leave this forum? will chinese clowns improve their behavior? will they stop calling us monkeys?

I´afraid not. actually I really don´t care of what and how many how much lies propaganda and bullshit chinese posters do here on pdf, as long as they don´t attack vietnam and our people. they can masturbate day and night. yes, you´re right. pointless to discuss to some chinese zombies, who only know to say monkey, OA and banana. their alphabets seem very limited, so their mindset. No. as I said to yoro once as he paused here a while, backing down is not our national character. I want to hit them back. Don´t care if the mod bans me or not. he is biased. sure, too many times I´m tired. I especially contribute this VN military thread because it is one of my fields of interest. improving my english. I rarely go to other sections. Don´t worry about me too much of being brainwashed. either way I´m too busy right now with many daily things, I may stop for a while.

the germans would say in such situation: "so oder so".

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## Carlosa

ComradeNam said:


> Pointless to post stuffs on this forum. Vietnamese members got banned most of. Now this forum flooding with Chinese propagandas news,get out of here before you being brainwashed by them.



I know BoQ77 was permanently banned from the China and far east forum, he told me so in a private message. What's the deal with nice guy? I've heard that he was banned also, permanently? I'm getting tired of this chinese infested forum, not worth it to spend much time here.

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## Viet

yoro go home and drink a beer.


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## JaiMin

Carlosa said:


> I know BoQ77 was permanently banned from the China and far east forum, he told me so in a private message. What's the deal with nice guy? I've heard that he was banned also, permanently? I'm getting tired of this chinese infested forum, not worth it to spend much time here.



I heard @BoQ77 will be able to join again in few weeks, not so sure, Niceguy got banned, sure with that



Yorozuya said:


> You are being delusional, your presence here does not change anything at all. Your replies to the Chinese trolls are usually dumb and are an embarrasment rather than doing any good. Just like the Chinese guy on top who was trolling, but you couldnt even realized that he was just trolling and still gave him serious replies (and pretend like you're some kind of diplomats). I never wanted to say all of that but Im now saying it anyway because the admins are beginning to permanently ban Vietnamese members one by one in a biased way, so I am leaving this forum too.
> 
> My last advice to you: stop acting like a delusional little kid imagining you are some kind of hero here handling the Chinese trolls and that you are not “backing down” or some other BS. Most of your replies to the trolls are dumb and embarrassing, period. So just do what all the smart people have done, just leave this forum permanently. I am leaving this forum too.



haha Yoro, good luck with your study then, do you have gmail, maybe we will have some discussion or will send you some good article


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## ComradeNam

Viet said:


> will it alter anything if I leave this forum? will chinese clowns improve their behavior? will they stop calling us monkeys?
> 
> I´afraid not. actually I really don´t care of what and how many how much lies propaganda and bullshit chinese posters do here on pdf, as long as they don´t attack vietnam and our people. they can masturbate day and night. yes, you´re right. pointless to discuss to some chinese zombies, who only know to say monkey, OA and banana. their alphabets seem very limited, so their mindset. No. as I said to yoro once as he paused here a while, backing down is not our national character. I want to hit them back. Don´t care if the mod bans me or not. he is biased. sure, too many times I´m tired. I especially contribute this VN military thread because it is one of my fields of interest. improving my english. I rarely go to other sections. Don´t worry about me too much of being brainwashed. either way I´m too busy right now with many daily things, I may stop for a while.
> 
> the germans would say in such situation: "so oder so".


You change nothing when you leave or stay. What will change is your future. Reading too much of their craps more or less will damage your brain and you dont even know it. Why was they being brain washed because they been fetch lies from their government for years. They live in denial and delusion that China is super power, no 1 in all fields, Chinese highest IQ, Chinese are beautiful northest asian, the world admire them.

The more time you spend in here the more stuffs you missed out there. You will lack of competitive skills for survive in society and lack of friendship and companion. I suggest you go find Vietnamese english culture forum there you will learn more about Vietnamese, more friends.

What you are doing is not smart, learn from mongol conquerer, chinese master Genghish Khan " only a fool fight a battle he knows he cant win" this forum you are to be subject for Chinese to make them look good, clearly you stand to get hit, you cant fight back, your comrade were isolated from you, the best agurment viet and viet troll were banned, only vietnamese with less threat and easy bully target are here to stay and that will be you.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Although @Viet is strongly pro-West, but he looks like the representative Vietnamese member here, since he has brought more things on the table than you guys @Yorozuya (Black Flag) and @ComradeNam could ever bring.

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## William Hung

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Although @Viet is strongly pro-West, but he looks like the representative Vietnamese member here, since he has brought more things on the table than you guys @Yorozuya (Black Flag) and @ComradeNam could ever bring.



Oh please, you like @Viet here because he is easy to manipulate and make fun of. Which is what you guys always do with him because he dont know how to debate you guys back.

You don’t like the rest of us Vietnamese members because you cannot debate us so all you do is report us to get us banned.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Yorozuya said:


> Oh please, you like @Viet here because he is easy to manipulate and make fun of. Which is what you guys always do with him because he dont know how to debate you guys back.
> 
> You don’t like the rest of us Vietnamese members because you cannot debate us so all you do is report us to get us banned.



lol, here we face more than just Vietnamese members, the US/Japanese/European/Indian/Turkish/Pinoy members are mostly hostile toward us, but do you see we have any trouble to handle against these members?

You have seriously overestimated yourselves, most Chinese members here are just toying with you guys.

I know you were expecting to become the first Vietnamese think tank, but later you got a bad record of getting banned several times, that's why you become rogue now.

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## William Hung

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, here we face more than just Vietnamese members, the US/Japanese/European/Indian/Turkish/Pinoy members are mostly hostile toward us, but do you see we have any trouble to handle against these members?
> 
> You have seriously overestimated yourself, most Chinese members here are toying with you guys.
> 
> I know you were expecting to become the first Vietnamese think tank, but later you got a bad record of getting banned several times, that's why you become rogue now.



LOL and most of the Turks/Indians/US members are saying the same thing: they are getting warned for every little reason in this Far East section because you Chinese are hiding behind your mod and cant debate other people on proper terms. So no, you guys still cannot handle anyone other than to ask your mod to ban other people.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Yorozuya said:


> LOL and most of the Turks/Indians/US members are saying the same thing: they are getting warned for every little reason in this Far East section because you Chinese are hiding behind your mod and cant debate other people on proper terms. So no, you guys still cannot handle anyone other than to ask your mod to ban other people.



These trolls have infringed the forum rules, that's why they got banned.

I even got banned once by Hu Songshan in my own thread, and I started this thread to discuss the history of KMT, not even aimed to attack other nations.

Do you see the Chinese members here regularly open a thread and troll on other nations? We mostly focus on our section.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> LOL and most of the Turks/Indians/US members are saying the same thing: they are getting warned for every little reason in this Far East section because you Chinese are hiding behind your mod and cant debate other people on proper terms. So no, you guys still cannot handle anyone other than to ask your mod to ban other people.



Here is a message that I just got from BoQ77:

even I tried my best to stay away from trolling, but the Mod tried his best to find a way ( almost unreasonable ) to ban me several time. And finally he banned me from section with China name. I am sure that He planned to ban me and some others because they consider the truth we bring to the thread is a harmful source to China.
For some who cause less "harm" to China, he spares them.

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## William Hung

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> These trolls have infringed the forum rules, that's why they got banned.
> 
> I even got banned once by Hu Songshan in my own thread, and I started this thread to discuss the history of KMT, not even aimed to attack other nations.
> 
> Do you see the Chinese members here regularly open a thread and troll on other nations? We mostly focus on our section.



Oh please, everyone can see that most Chinese members here can get away with racism, posting dead people (i.e. WW2), flame thread whereas non-Chinese members would get banned for the smallest reason like off-topic post. I once got banned (not even a warning) for posting a picture of a sunflower in a KMT thread because it was of “no-value”. While it take you guys around 15 posts of blatantly breaking rules like racist slur before a post get deleted as a token of active “moderation”. So even if it is usually 9 Chinese vs. 1 non-Chinese debating, you still have to hide behind your mod and ask him to ban people.



Carlosa said:


> Here is a message that I just got from BoQ77:
> 
> even I tried my best to stay away from trolling, but the Mod tried his best to find a way ( almost unreasonable ) to ban me several time. And finally he banned me from section with China name. I am sure that He planned to ban me and some others because they consider the truth we bring to the thread is a harmful source to China.
> For some who cause less "harm" to China, he spares them.



That is why I am leaving. They are just finding ways to slowly permanently banning the Vietnamese members while leaving the weak and naive members like @Viet around so that they could continue to manipulate and make fun of him as a joke. That is why I’m telling him to leave PDF too.

Anyway, this section is not interesting anymore. It is just mostly random topics or topic about Japan not apologizing, etc.

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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> That is why I am leaving. They are just finding ways to slowly permanently banning the Vietnamese members while leaving the weak and naive members like @Viet around so that they could continue to manipulate and make fun of him as a joke. That is why I’m telling him to leave PDF too.
> 
> Anyway, this section is not interesting anymore. It is just mostly random topics or topic about Japan not apologizing, etc.



Yes, that's what I've been doing here, this is not worth the time. We need a different medium where to do our thing. 

Anybody that gives a serious debate challenge to the chinese clowns gets banned, so let it be a chinese forum then.


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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's what I've been doing here, this is not worth the time. We need a different medium where to do our thing.
> 
> Anybody that gives a serious debate challenge to the chinese clowns gets banned, so let it be a chinese forum then.



Carlosa, Viet, Yoro et al, 

Don't leave the forum. Just do what i do -- in the event where you are being abetted to respond in an unprofessional matter, just ignore the one who is instigating insult posts. That is what I have done now, and well, i can't really even see almost 1/2 of the Chinese members now, lol. Just only a few. 

Lastly, Yoro, Viet, Biendong, and Comrade et al, i see that you guys are fighting amongst yourselves. Don't allow yourselves to fall into the trap. Please. I don't know if you can see it or not. 

I reiterate: Do not leave the forum. Stay, just don't respond to troll posts. In the event that you are victim of insulting posts and vitriol, just report it. DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT respond to vitriol with vitriol. Period.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's what I've been doing here, this is not worth the time. We need a different medium where to do our thing.
> 
> Anybody that gives a serious debate challenge to the chinese clowns gets banned, so let it be a chinese forum then.



Exactly, let this section turn into a “Chinese Defence Forum” where it is just a bunch of Chinese members cheerleading with themselves....which will eventually make this section dead because no one else will be interested in reading a bunch of Chinese cheerleaders (did you know CDF already got shut down and merged with another one because of their dwindling members?).

So guys like Viets is actually helping the Chinese members here by creating Vietnamese related posts and threads that helps keep the trolling and section active.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Carlosa, Viet, Yoro et al,
> 
> Don't leave the forum. Just do what i do -- in the event where you are being abetted to respond in an unprofessional matter, just ignore the one who is instigating insult posts. That is what I have done now, and well, i can't really even see almost 1/2 of the Chinese members now, lol. Just only a few.
> 
> Lastly, Yoro, Viet, Biendong, and Comrade et al, i see that you guys are fighting amongst yourselves. Don't allow yourselves to fall into the trap. Please. I don't know if you can see it or not.
> 
> I reiterate: Do not leave the forum. Stay, just don't respond to troll posts. In the event that you are victim of insulting posts and vitriol, just report it. DO NOT, i repeat, DO NOT respond to vitriol with vitriol. Period.



Bro, you don’t know how biased this section is, you are a TTA so you might get a different treatment. We are getting warnings for the smallest excuse while Chinese members can openly post things like racial slur. And now, they are permanently banning Vietnamese members while the more openly trolling Chinese members can stick around. On top of this, even an admin (Horus) is siding with their decision. So its their forum, their rule.

We will leave because we no longer want to contribute to a forum that disrespect us and our country. You are basically telling us to tolerate the bias and racism in this forum by ignoring it and continue to contribute by posting. That dont make any sense to us. @Carlosa you agree?

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## Aepsilons

Yorozuya said:


> Bro, you don’t know how biased this section is, you are a TTA so you might get a different treatment. We are getting warnings for the smallest excuse while Chinese members can openly post things like racial slur. And now, they are permanently banning Vietnamese members while the more openly trolling Chinese members can stick around. On top of this, even an admin (Horus) is siding with their decision. So its their forum, their choice.
> 
> We will leave because we no longer want to contribute to a forum that disrespect us and our country. You are basically telling us to tolerate the bias and racism in this forum by ignoring it and continue to contribute by posting. That dont make any sense to us. @Carlosa you agree?



I understand your position, and I respect your views as well as the views of your other countrymen. All I request is that you do not leave permanently, perhaps come visit once in a while, at least. I joined this forum because I was attracted to the multinationalism of PDF, and the rich number of different kinds of Asian perspectives. I hope you consider my simple request, my friend.


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## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I understand your position, and I respect your views as well as the views of your other countrymen. All I request is that you do not leave permanently, perhaps come visit once in a while, at least. I joined this forum because I was attracted to the multinationalism of PDF, and the rich number of different kinds of Asian perspectives. I hope you consider my simple request, my friend.



I’ll come back once a while to say hi, sure. Other than that, I don’t see anything interesting in this forum anymore. We used to have interesting members like those from Myanmar, etc. But now its mostly random Chinese posts on trivial stuff or grudge post about Japan, etc.

I’m telling you, this Far East section will just eventually die like CDF. I am already getting bored with this section.

BTW, if you are an academic with post-grad degree, try to get an analyst membership in Wikistrat and spend your time there. Dont waste your time posting serious stuff here because this forum is becoming a joke now, thats my honest opinion.

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## Aepsilons

Yorozuya said:


> I’ll come back once a while to say hi, sure. Other than that, I don’t see anything interesting in this forum anymore. We used to have interesting members like those from Myanmar, etc. But now its mostly random Chinese posts on trivial stuff or grudge post about Japan, etc.
> 
> I’m telling you, this Far East section will just eventually die like CDF. I am already getting bored with this section.
> 
> BTW, if you are an academic with post-grad degree, try to get an analyst membership in Wikistrat and spend your time there. Dont waste your time posting serious stuff here because this forum is becoming a joke now, thats my honest opinion.




To lighten you up, my friend, i will post a song that i listen to when i'm 'pi$$ed to high heavens'. 

Enjoy, and don't leave. You'll give me an Achy Breaky Heart.... 

@Hamartia Antidote --- hahaha, i want you to listen to this song, too, bro.


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## Carlosa

Yorozuya said:


> Exactly, let this section turn into a “Chinese Defence Forum” where it is just a bunch of Chinese members cheerleading with themselves....which will eventually make this section dead because no one else will be interested in reading a bunch of Chinese cheerleaders (did you know CDF already got shut down and merged with another one because of their dwindling members?).
> 
> So guys like Viets is actually helping the Chinese members here by creating Vietnamese related posts and threads that helps keep the trolling and section active.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, you don’t know how biased this section is, you are a TTA so you might get a different treatment. We are getting warnings for the smallest excuse while Chinese members can openly post things like racial slur. And now, they are permanently banning Vietnamese members while the more openly trolling Chinese members can stick around. On top of this, even an admin (Horus) is siding with their decision. So its their forum, their rule.
> 
> We will leave because we no longer want to contribute to a forum that disrespect us and our country. You are basically telling us to tolerate the bias and racism in this forum by ignoring it and continue to contribute by posting. That dont make any sense to us. @Carlosa you agree?



I agree, no problem to come here once in a while to say Hi, but to contribute to the forum is just to maintain the charade and to help them look legit, which they are not, no need for that.

We need to share our contact info (pm's), It might be other ways to share and interface, it would be good to keep the contact.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Nihonjin1051 said:


> To lighten you up, my friend, i will post a song that i listen to when i'm 'pi$$ed to high heavens'.
> 
> Enjoy, and don't leave. You'll give me an Achy Breaky Heart....
> 
> @Hamartia Antidote --- hahaha, i want you to listen to this song, too, bro.



Country Music of the United States: A Uniquely American Thread


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## Viet

Nihonjin1051 said:


> To lighten you up, my friend, i will post a song that i listen to when i'm 'pi$$ed to high heavens'.
> 
> Enjoy, and don't leave. You'll give me an Achy Breaky Heart....
> 
> @Hamartia Antidote --- hahaha, i want you to listen to this song, too, bro.




ha ha ha...not my favorite, I prefer "*It Never Rains In Southern California"*, sung by Albert Hammond. 

I like California. It is such a wonderful place, a heaven on earth. nice food, good weather, people. to mention, my relatives live there. I often travel to there, always want to return when back home. the state, or cali for short as our exile viets call it, reminds me of my country, where rainfall is as usual as sunshine and darkness. telling you a thing, my friend, the people of vietnam are superstitious. when a rain shower surpises a wedding, it brings luck, say the people. many babies will be born. here in germany, a rain shower does not last long. just short of duration. but everytime when it rains, it brings me back to to times, when I was young boy, running through the streets with others in the neighborhood, enjoying the warm water shower.

off-topic a bit.

cheers!

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## Indos

Yorozuya said:


> I’ll come back once a while to say hi, sure. Other than that, I don’t see anything interesting in this forum anymore. We used to have interesting members like those from Myanmar, etc. But now its mostly random Chinese posts on trivial stuff or grudge post about Japan, etc.
> 
> I’m telling you, this Far East section will just eventually die like CDF. I am already getting bored with this section.
> 
> BTW, if you are an academic with post-grad degree, try to get an analyst membership in Wikistrat and spend your time there. Dont waste your time posting serious stuff here because this forum is becoming a joke now, thats my honest opinion.



PDF is kind a place to give us an effective way to practice our writing and also debating skills in English beside a place where fan boys all over the world gather to get some defense information, and also a place for them to release their competitive ( and some time war ) desire 

In serious term, if only we want to see some kind of benefit of doing this, in my view PDF is just a place to practice for potential people like you to get some kind of debating experience with so many clever and knowledgeable people around the world. Of course not in any time we can have such opportunity in here since some members here are just here for fun or for compensating some thing.

If it is used in healthy way, the site can potentially give its potential member some kind of confidence and experience to make him/her captures better opportunity in his/her real life. If we think this site is just a distraction from our real life goal so it should be our fault then, not this site. So you need to respect this forum buddy...... 

It is just a supplement for our real life, and not the real life itself. If you are treated unfairly here, it should not make you hate this site so badly. It is just a forum btw that despite maybe acting against Vietnamese in some way but still can give some opportunity for another "yoro" in Vietnam to test their debating skills in international way that might give some confidence and skills for the benefit of their real life.........  

Talking about @Nihonjin1051, I think he needs to start writing in Washington Post or even make his own book instead of just writing in Wikistrat as you suggested above.......


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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...not my favorite, I prefer "*It Never Rains In Southern California"*, sung by Albert Hammond.
> 
> I like California. It is such a wonderful place, a heaven on earth. nice food, good weather, people. to mention, my relatives live there. I often travel to there, always want to return when back home. the state, or cali for short as our exile viets call it, reminds me of my country, where rainfall is as usual as sunshine and darkness. telling you a thing, my friend, the people of vietnam are superstitious. when a rain shower surpises a wedding, it brings luck, say the people. many babies will be born. here in germany, a rain shower does not last long. just short of duration. but everytime when it rains, it brings me back to to times, when I was young boy, running through the streets with others in the neighborhood, enjoying the warm water shower.
> 
> off-topic a bit.
> 
> cheers!




That's what i'm talking about Viet-sama !


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## Rechoice

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> lol, here we face more than just Vietnamese members, the US/Japanese/European/Indian/Turkish/Pinoy members are mostly hostile toward us, but do you see we have any trouble to handle against these members?
> 
> You have seriously overestimated yourselves, most Chinese members here are just toying with you guys.
> 
> I know you were expecting to become the first Vietnamese think tank, but later you got a bad record of getting banned several times, that's why you become rogue now.



we do comment here on PDF is for fun too.


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## William Hung

Indos said:


> PDF is kind a place to give us an effective way to practice our writing and also debating skills in English beside a place where fan boys all over the world gather to get some defense information, and also a place for them to release their competitive ( and some time war ) desire
> 
> In serious term, if only we want to see some kind of benefit of doing this, in my view PDF is just a place to practice for potential people like you to get some kind of debating experience with so many clever and knowledgeable people around the world. Of course not in any time we can have such opportunity in here since some members here are just here for fun or for compensating some thing.
> 
> If it is used in healthy way, the site can potentially give its potential member some kind of confidence and experience to make him/her captures better opportunity in his/her real life. If we think this site is just a distraction from our real life goal so it should be our fault then, not this site. So you need to respect this forum buddy......
> 
> It is just a supplement for our real life, and not the real life itself. If you are treated unfairly here, it should not make you hate this site so badly. It is just a forum btw that despite maybe acting against Vietnamese in some way but still can give some opportunity for another "yoro" in Vietnam to test their debating skills in international way that might give some confidence and skills for the benefit of their real life.........
> 
> Talking about @Nihonjin1051, I think he needs to start writing in Washington Post or even make his own book instead of just writing in Wikistrat as you suggested above.......



Thanks for the post, I know what you are saying, but I don’t think this forum will tolerate another yoro. Why? Because this yoro was getting warned and banned for minor things that other Chinese members would often get away with. I was being careful to follow all the rules except for making offtopic comments once in a while (and everyone makes offtopic comments in this forum most of the time), but this section’s mod will still find every small excuse to give me infraction. My current infraction is a “off-topic/no-value” post from last week. They only want to keep the naive and easy to manipulate Vietnamese members here and ban the other Vietnamese. But its their forum, their rule. Me and some other members don’t like it, so we just leave.

Anyway, I will drop by once a while to say hi.

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## JaiMin

,@Yorozuya, @Carlosa 







Yorozuya said:


> Thanks for the post, I know what you are saying, but I don’t think this forum will tolerate another yoro. Why? Because this yoro was getting warned and banned for minor things that other Chinese members would often get away with. I was being careful to follow all the rules except for making offtopic comments once in a while (and everyone makes offtopic comments in this forum most of the time), but this section’s mod will still find every small excuse to give me infraction. My current infraction is a “off-topic/no-value” post from last week. They only want to keep the naive and easy to manipulate Vietnamese members here and ban the other Vietnamese. But its their forum, their rule. Me and some other members don’t like it, so we just leave.
> 
> Anyway, I will drop by once a while to say hi.



Take times study bro and enjoy life

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## Carlosa

JaiMin said:


> ,@Yorozuya, @Carlosa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take times study bro and enjoy life



Thank you for your support and encouragement guys, we'll be around in some kind of "maintenance mode" and to keep in touch, makes sense Yoro?


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## Viet

_Hey Carlosa and friends, sorry to bother you all. I´m curious of your opinion. if anyone is still interested. I think this news is of utmost importance for Vietnam this year. Probably the most important political event in the last 10 years. absolutely the highlight. the visits, of the actual and aspirant superpowers, will have a long lasting impact on the polical landscape for the times to come. for Vietnam. if we are smart, we can strike the best deal for our country, both economics and defence. I once opened the thread, I believe the time hasn´t arrived yet to have this thread closed. So oder so._



*Balancing act: Vietnam may find itself hosting Barack Obama and Xi Jinping within days of each other*

Hanoi's complicated geopolitical position may be drawn into sharp focus when Xi Jinping and Barack Obama arrive for talks later this year

PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 15 September, 2015, 11:11pm
UPDATED : Thursday, 17 September, 2015, 9:02am
Kristine Kwok

Kristine.kwok@scmp.com







_US President Barack Obama (left) and Chinese President Xi Jinping may both visit Vietnam within days of each other. Photo: Xinhua_


Vietnam may be forced to perform a delicate balancing act should President Xi Jinping and his US counterpart, Barack Obama, visit within the same timeframe, as expected, later this year.

No exact dates have been fixed for Xi's visit - which will be the first in 10 years by a Chinese president. Hanoi's invitation for Xi to visit was accepted last year but sources say Beijing only recently confirmed that Xi would come by the end of this year.

_"We could be receiving two of the most important world leaders."_
_VIETNAMESE DIPLOMAT_

It means there could be some intense diplomatic jostling as the visits by the Chinese and American presidents are scheduled so close to each other. The rivalry between the two major powers has intensified, while maritime territorial disputes continue to strain Beijing's ties with Hanoi and Washington.

The most likely timing, according to analysts, will be in November when regional leaders, including Xi, gather in Manila for the annual Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) summit.

This, however, could create a diplomatic challenge for Hanoi as Obama is also likely to swing by Vietnam on his way to Manila.

*Read more: Vietnam Communist Party chief to make first US visit as former foes mull China's territorial claims*

"We could be receiving two of the most important world leaders around the same time," said one diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Obama's trip will mark the 20th anniversary of diplomatic ties between the former enemies. The two countries have ramped up bilateral ties in recent years as Hanoi seeks to hedge against Beijing's posturing in the South China Sea, while Washington continues its so-called pivot towards Asia, a move China views as containment.







Philippine media reported earlier this year that Xi may boycott the Manila summit because of President Benigno Aquino's position on the South China Sea disputes. But Xu Liping, a researcher with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said a snub by Xi was unlikely.

"Even if Xi did skip the Apec summit, he would still be going to Vietnam," Xu said, adding that Xi could also visit Singapore.

Xi's Southeast Asian tour will be closely watched as China's activities in the South China Sea have frayed its ties with other countries in the region. Vietnam and the Philippines have been the most vocal opponents of Chinese claims.

*Read more: ‘We have travelled a remarkable distance’: US Secretary of State John Kerry celebrates alliance with Vietnam*

Relations between the communist neighbours nosedived after China parked a giant oil rig in disputed waters off Vietnam's coast. The two countries have made amends since then, but Vietnam has also been cultivating stronger ties with other powers, particularly the US.

While the Chinese leader is expected to use his visit to further mend ties, his trip will come as Hanoi prepares for the 12th party congress next year, when it will elect a new leadership.

"A high-level visit by a Chinese leader is very necessary when Vietnam will have a new leadership next year," said Xu, the CASS researcher.

"It's important that he [Xi] could communicate with all Vietnamese leaders, and it might have certain influence if he gives 'encouragement' to the pro-Beijing figures."

While China insists it upholds a "non-interference" foreign policy, Carl Thayer, an emeritus professor at the University of New South Wales, said Beijing had in the past sought to influence Vietnam's leadership reshuffles.

"Xi would want to use this trip to influence the party congress, and to stop it [Vietnam] from moving towards the US," Thayer said.


Balancing act: Vietnam may find itself hosting Barack Obama and Xi Jinping within days of each other | South China Morning Post

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> _Hey Carlosa and friends, sorry to bother you all. _



You never bother me bro.

I think the key here is for Vietnam to resolve its internal differences between the pro china and pro western camps so that it can talk with a unified voice, otherwise these meeting will not have as much substance as it could.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You never bother me bro.
> 
> I think the key here is for Vietnam to resolve* its internal differences* between the pro china and pro western camps so that it can talk with a unified voice, otherwise these meeting will not have as much substance as it could.


thanks bro. internal fighting between various factions within the government is not a new phenomen. that is as old as Vietnam itself. basically the 1,000s year old question: how to deal with China? I can imagine, the pro- and contra-factions shout at each other behind closed doors. My assessment is the reformers around the Prime Minister have the upper hand right now, advancing a pro-west course.


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## William Hung

JaiMin said:


> ,@Yorozuya, @Carlosa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take times study bro and enjoy life


LOL hey Jaimin this thread was created by the @VALKRYIE guy who got banned here. He made a “Chinese love Vietnam” thread at the forum you showed me:

Chinese love Vietnam

LMAO, like exactly what I have said earlier here on PDF, he is just an oversea Vietnamese with an inferiority complex who, deep down inside, want to associate with the Chinese and find acceptance from them lol. I learnt a new word “validation” from that thread. Deep down he just want validations from the Chinese people, thats what I wanted to say before.

The forum looks interesting...if @BoQ77, @NiceGuy, @Viva_Viet join that forum, I will join too.



Viet said:


> thanks bro. internal fighting between various factions within the government is not a new phenomen. that is as old as Vietnam itself. basically the 1,000s year old question: how to deal with China? I can imagine, the pro- and contra-factions shout at each other behind closed doors. My assessment is the reformers around the Prime Minister have the upper hand right now, advancing a pro-west course.



Da khong biet gi thi dung co noi chuyen vo van o day nhe.

After what me and some other Vietnamese members had adviced you, why do you keep insisting on posting Vietnamese topics in this forum? Don’t you see that it is your own posts and threads that makes the Chinese troll on VN? Just look at the recent threads and posts that you have created on PDF, the pattern goes like this:

You create a thread/post related to VN, the Chinese inevitably start trolling on it, you then make some silly counter posts, the Chinese continue to troll, you get overwhelmed and leave the thread...you then create a new thread related to VN, the Chinese troll on it and the cycle just continue on and on again.

It sometime makes me think whether you really are a real Vietnamese or just someone here to help the Chinese troll on Viet Nam. But I really think you are just an insecure oversea Vietnamese like that Valkryie guy who is just craving for validation from the Chinese. Why do you stay here and enjoy getting trolled on? Why not move to another forum? You are really that desperate to seek validation from the Chinese here?

I know you have the right to do whatever you want, but my opinion is that you should stop that crap. Before, it was not so bad because there were a lot of Vietnamese members here to clean up the mess that you created, simply because you don’t know how to argue and debate with the Chinese. Now most Vietnamese members are either banned or have left, and all the Chinese trolls are free to troll on the threads or posts you have created. So I’m getting annoyed with your activities here because you are the one who is giving the Chinese the opportunities to troll on Vietnam/Vietnamese when there is hardly any old Vietnamese members here to clean up your mess anymore.

Please kindly take my advice, my final advice. Stop creating Vietnamese related topics/threads here. If you want to discuss about VN without the Chinese trolling then move to another forum...like that forum I posted above. Unless, you just want to stay here because you are craving for validation and acceptance from the Chinese. Bro, don’t be so desperate for validation that you have to continue to stay here to talk with the Chinese when all they do is troll on you. If you stay here, then save everyone the trouble and change your name from Viet and stick to posting topics about Germany or something. Stop posting about Vietnam on PDF if you cant defend yourself.


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## JaiMin

Yorozuya said:


> LOL hey Jaimin this thread was created by the @VALKRYIE guy who got banned here. He made a “Chinese love Vietnam” thread at the forum you showed me:
> 
> Chinese love Vietnam
> 
> LMAO, like exactly what I have said earlier here on PDF, he is just an oversea Vietnamese with an inferiority complex who, deep down inside, want to associate with the Chinese and find acceptance from them lol. I learnt a new word “validation” from that thread. Deep down he just want validations from the Chinese people, thats what I wanted to say before.
> 
> The forum looks interesting...if @BoQ77, @NiceGuy, @Viva_Viet join that forum, I will join too.
> 
> 
> 
> Da khong biet gi thi dung co noi chuyen vo van o day nhe.
> 
> After what me and some other Vietnamese members had adviced you, why do you keep insisting on posting Vietnamese topics in this forum? Don’t you see that it is your own posts and threads that makes the Chinese troll on VN? Just look at the recent threads and posts that you have created on PDF, the pattern goes like this:
> 
> You create a thread/post related to VN, the Chinese inevitably start trolling on it, you then make some silly counter posts, the Chinese continue to troll, you get overwhelmed and leave the thread...you then create a new thread related to VN, the Chinese troll on it and the cycle just continue on and on again.
> 
> It sometime makes me think whether you really are a real Vietnamese or just someone here to help the Chinese troll on Viet Nam. But I really think you are just an insecure oversea Vietnamese like that Valkryie guy who is just craving for validation from the Chinese. Why do you stay here and enjoy getting trolled on? Why not move to another forum? You are really that desperate to seek validation from the Chinese here?
> 
> I know you have the right to do whatever you want, but my opinion is that you should stop that crap. Before, it was not so bad because there were a lot of Vietnamese members here to clean up the mess that you created, simply because you don’t know how to argue and debate with the Chinese. Now most Vietnamese members are either banned or have left, and all the Chinese trolls are free to troll on the threads or posts you have created. So I’m getting annoyed with your activities here because you are the one who is giving the Chinese the opportunities to troll on Vietnam/Vietnamese when there is hardly any old Vietnamese members here to clean up your mess anymore.
> 
> Please kindly take my advice, my final advice. Stop creating Vietnamese related topics/threads here. If you want to discuss about VN without trolling then move to another forum...like that forum I posted above. Don’t be so desperate for validation that you have to continue to stay here to talk with the Chinese when all they do is troll on you. If you stay here, then save everyone the trouble and change your name from Viet and stick to posting topics about Germany or something. Stop posting about Vietnam on PDF if you cant defend yourself.



Just ignore VC, he like to post all that kind of thread LoL, most member dont really into that kind of thread anyway except thewalrus-a British Chinese


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## William Hung

JaiMin said:


> Just ignore VC, he like to post all that kind of thread LoL, most member dont really into that kind of thread anyway except thewalrus-a British Chinese



Yeah it looks like that forum can be fun too because there are quite a number of Chinese there too.

I will invite @BoQ77, @NiceGuy, @Viva_Viet, @Soryu, etc. to join. That should make that forum more fun haha.

I will join when I have time to register for an account there. See you there bro.


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## JaiMin

Yorozuya said:


> Yeah it looks like that forum can be fun too because there are quite a number of Chinese there too.
> 
> I will invite @BoQ77, @NiceGuy, @Viva_Viet, @Soryu, etc. to join. That should make that forum more fun haha.
> 
> I will join when I have time to register for an account there. See you there bro.



Most are oversea Chinese anyway except XNG, but forum more about history and cultural, landscape, food stuff not much politic bro


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## Viva_Viet

Yorozuya said:


> The forum looks interesting...if @BoQ77, @NiceGuy, @Viva_Viet join that forum, I will join too.
> 
> .


Chinese short vision make me tired, our so called ASEAN de facto leader make me sick,too. So, it'd better to say what will happen to them on PDF and leave. Let time tell them the truth.

Update new:
*Obama confident TPP will be secured this year*
Obama confident TPP will be secured this year | Manufacturers Monthly


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## William Hung

Viva_Viet said:


> Chinese short vision make me tired, our so called ASEAN de facto leader make me sick,too. So, it'd better to say what will happen to them on PDF and leave. Let time tell them the truth.
> 
> Update new:
> *Obama confident TPP will be secured this year*
> Obama confident TPP will be secured this year | Manufacturers Monthly





JaiMin said:


> Most are oversea Chinese anyway except XNG, but forum more about history and cultural, landscape, food stuff not much politic bro



So, lets go there and make that forum more political.

I see that forum has too many topics about pop music, northeast asian culture, etc.

@Viva_Viet I think we need to go to that forum and teach those oversea Viets and Chinese about TPP and the coming great flood. The Chinese members here, we cant warn and inform them anymore...the truth hurts them so much that they have to hide behind their mod.


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## Viva_Viet

Yorozuya said:


> @Viva_Viet I think we need to go to that forum and teach those oversea Viets and Chinese about TPP and the coming great flood. The Chinese members here, we cant warn and inform them anymore...the truth hurts them so much that they have to hide behind their mod.


Recently, my company import alot of American used trucks and gradually reduce importing CN new ones such as Howo,Dongfeng due to TPP coming so close, so I'm quite busy to learn more about American used trucks now.

So, posting some TPP analysis and news here is enough for me already, no need to help those short vision guys to understand what are going on in real life


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## JaiMin

Yorozuya said:


> So, lets go there and make that forum more political.
> 
> I see that forum has too many topics about pop music, northeast asian culture, etc.
> 
> @Viva_Viet I think we need to go to that forum and teach those oversea Viets and Chinese about TPP and the coming great flood. The Chinese members here, we cant warn and inform them anymore...the truth hurts them so much that they have to hide behind their mod.




Haha, there are forum for south-east Asia countries too, but most member post in Asia discussion anyway. No need too much politic lol, most of politican words report on news are meaningless anyway, their action are different, and most of members there are friendly to each other, no need to be so hostile! Historic related topic Doraemon post is quite entertaining and informative, u should see it, her history and costume knowledge are amazing. Most members there are rational anyway. Economic topic is good if you like, haha. There are 3 Korean member there. MrC and pochi (Japanese) there have great knowledge and very creative too as well as xng. Phillipines mem are friendly to everyone


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## Viet

Yoro you are so funny. Ja du bist so ein lustiger Kerl.

re-edited:
let see how high the quality of the forum you want me to join.

EB News - EastBound's Asia News

the thread you mentioned. here says an obviously chinese poster in response to the OP.

"If I had the ability to stretch my dick all the way to Vietnam I would let people, both men and women have their way with it. Tetetelatelatet."

and a viet poster answers:
"Too bad huh. Hard to stretch what you cant find. OH BURRN!"


in the Philippine section, there two sticky threads "hot philippina girls" and "handsome boys.

if you think that forum is of high quality, much better for you, then pls go there. don´t bother me.


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## DaiViet

Viet said:


> Yoro you are so funny. Ja du bist so ein lustiger Kerl.
> 
> re-edited:
> let see how high the quality of the forum you want me to join.
> 
> EB News - EastBound's Asia News
> 
> the thread you mentioned. here says an obviously chinese poster in response to the OP.
> 
> "If I had the ability to stretch my dick all the way to Vietnam I would let people, both men and women have their way with it. Tetetelatelatet."
> 
> and a viet poster answers:
> "Too bad huh. Hard to stretch what you cant find. OH BURRN!"
> 
> 
> in the Philippine section, there two sticky threads "hot philippina girls" and "handsome boys.
> 
> if you think that forum is of high quality, much better for you, then pls go there. don´t bother me.


Eastbound? Oh God, stay away form that forum. That forum for women. You will get banned by the women over there. All they do is talk about food, clothing, history, dont you dare to speak anything different or act different. I get banned twice there and never come back again in my life.

I am recruiting any talents in here join me and my friend project. Im sponsoring Vietnamese oversea forum at Vietboundary.com feel free to stop by, I am second Boss there. I guarantee freedom of speech, troll and fair.


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## Viet

DaiViet said:


> Eastbound? Oh God, stay away form that forum. That forum for women. You will get banned by the women over there. All they do is talk about food, clothing, history, dont you dare to speak anything different or act different. I get banned twice there and never come back again in my life.
> 
> I am recruiting any talents in here join me and my friend project. Im sponsoring Vietnamese oversea forum at Vietboundary.com feel free to stop by, I am second Boss there. I guarantee freedom of speech, troll and fair.


Lol ...slowly I believe to the words of @ChineseTiger1986 who says Yoro was short to being promoted to Thinktank status before he began trolling and trolling. he was banned. now out of frustration he goes rough, and the most unexpected thing happens: he began to personally attack me...like a stalker.

@Carlosa
BoQ was permanently banned because he opened many chinese threads with intentional trollings. nonsense topics, and sometimes he created threads with domestic violent graphic images, including dead bodies. he was warned but did not want to listen. I appealed him many times to stop opening such threads, but he did not want to listen to me, either. if I remember myself correctly, I never created any chinese thread. but BoQ.

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## Viet

So I continue posting some military news here if nobody minds?

South China Sea: new compact, mobile, long range Radar ELM-2288 ER from Israel will be deployed on Spratlys, monitoring the airspace, part of a larger Vietnam Air Defense System. the radar, max. range 480 km, providing 3D images, can not only detect enemy aircraft but ballistic missiles, too.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> if you think that forum is of high quality, much better for you, then pls go there. don´t bother me.



When did I ever said or alluded to anything about that forum being high quality?

Can you read again my previous posts and quote me on that? Can you find any?

And your posts/arguments here is not high quality either. A Chinese troll once made fun of the 1988 shooting, and your reply to him was this:



Viet said:


> I assume you, your father and grandfather go everyday to the shrine, where the dead bodies and souls of our people are buried and masturbate. good time for you all indeed.



What kind of dumb reply was that???? Was that supposed to offend the Chinese troll or were you intending to insult the dead VN soldiers? You always have these kind of stupid replies, intended to counter the trolls but end up making a fool out of VN.

This is why the Chinese trolls want to keep you here while always report the other Viet members to be banned. You think you never get banned because they love you? stop being delusional, they like keeping you here to toy around with you because you keep making a fool out of yourself here.

The most honest chinese guy here was actually @Fattyacids who have said you are only getting toyed and trolled on PDF because your counter posts is usually dumb. That may sound harsh but he was telling the truth. When that @ChineseTiger1986 guy, who is a well known anti-Vietnam troll, said you are a good Vietnamese member, is called
bơm đểu. But you believed him anyway and thumps him up, which shows your naivety and desperate for approval.




Viet said:


> Lol ...slowly I believe to the words of @ChineseTiger1986 who says Yoro was short to being promoted to Thinktank status before he began trolling and trolling. he was banned. now out of frustration he goes rough, and the most unexpected thing happens: he began to personally attack me...like a stalker.
> 
> @Carlosa
> BoQ was permanently banned because he opened many chinese threads with intentional trollings. nonsense topics, and sometimes he created threads with domestic violent graphic images, including dead bodies. he was warned but did not want to listen. I appealed him many times to stop opening such threads, but he did not want to listen to me, either. if I remember myself correctly, I never created any chinese thread. but BoQ.



When have I ever said I wanted to become a think-tank or was close to becoming TT? That is news to me. You are now crazy for believing and siding with that anti-Vietnam troll. That @ChineseTiger1986 is probably secretly admiring me to come up with that conclusion .

But no surprise that you are siding with the Chinese trolls. Like I said before, deep down you just want acceptance and validation from the Chinese that is why you keep staying here and try to make friends with the Chinese even though they are trolling on you. And that is why you attack Vietnamese like me and @BoQ77 even though we dont troll. You may deny this, just like how @VALKRYIE had denied it when I told him that....but then he proved my point by creating a “Hey, Chinese do love Viet people” thread in another forum. You are probably saying the same thing in your heart.

What a pitiful guy, getting toyed and trolled by the Chinese trolls but still desperately trying to make friends and serious conversations them:

Taiwanese bank comes to Vietnam

You have already admitted that they like to call you a monkey, so why are you still here trying to make friends with them? That is so desperate. Anyway, you are free to stay here and try to get some validation from the Chinese, but change your name from “Viet” to something else while you are doing it please.


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## Viet

yoro, you can cry and shout as you like. you can spew insult and lies until you become black and red. I´m not impressed at all. I do what I like, and not what you decide what I have to do.

but you know what, I will ask the mods to either ban you or me on this forum.

Dear mods, this member yoro is a stalker, trying to stop me contributing on this forum, spewing nonsense and lies. pls ban him permanently. thank you!

@Hu Songshan 
@WebMaster 
@Horus

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## Fattyacids

Yorozuya said:


> The most honest chinese guy here was actually @Fattyacids who have said you are only getting toyed and trolled on PDF because your counter posts is usually dumb. That may sound harsh but he was telling the truth. When that @ChineseTiger1986 guy, who is a well known anti-Vietnam troll, said you are a good Vietnamese member, is called
> bơm đểu. But you believed him anyway and thumps him up, which shows your naivety and desperate for approval.



Why tag me, then put words into my mouth? I've never called @Viet dumb, you can revisit the old thread. On the contrary, he is the more educated and rational poster compared to most of the Vietnamese, who cannot debate, or even troll, factually and intelligently. Their only way of trolling to is smear, demean and insult. And they recycle the same content again and again, lol. Honest opinion, they are dumbest low IQ trolls here. If anything, Viet makes Vietnamese look more respectable here. 

You're an intelligent poster, I surprised you would bash him and say nothing your other comrades.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> BoQ was permanently banned because he opened many chinese threads with intentional trollings. nonsense topics, and sometimes he created threads with domestic violent graphic images, including dead bodies. he was warned but did not want to listen. I appealed him many times to stop opening such threads, but he did not want to listen to me, either. if I remember myself correctly, I never created any chinese thread. but BoQ.



Wow, I had no idea about that. Thank you for the info.


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## Carlosa

Latest pic of land reclamation in Big Spratly Island (Truong Sa):

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## William Hung

Fattyacids said:


> Why tag me, then put words into my mouth? I've never called @Viet dumb, you can revisit the old thread. On the contrary, he is the more educated and rational poster compared to most of the Vietnamese, who cannot debate, or even troll, factually and intelligently. Their only way of trolling to is smear, demean and insult. And they recycle the same content again and again, lol. Honest opinion, they are dumbest low IQ trolls here. If anything, Viet makes Vietnamese look more respectable here.
> 
> You're an intelligent poster, I surprised you would bash him and say nothing your other comrades.



You are now trying to differentiate @Viet from the other so-called Vietnamese “trolls”. But you have previously generalised all Vietnamese trolling as dumb low IQ and grouped @Viet with all these Vietnamese trolling, here are quotes from you talking to @Viet in this thread (from post 103 onwards):

Mongolia should hold vote on rejoining China | Page 7



> You didn't cite, you manipulated facts. This is typical of every Vietnamese poster.
> 
> ...There's witty relevant mocking, there's dumb and irrelevant mocking.
> 
> ...Is this not the typical Vietnamese BS/dumb trolling?...
> 
> I'm very relaxed, but you bunch need to stop your low IQ trolling in every China related post. Can't get over your complex and hate, seek medical help.



As for why I criticized @Viet and not the other Vietnamese members? Its because the other Vietnamese members usually dont start the trolling...like 80% of the time, they are just responding to the trolling/provocations started by your countrymen. On the other hand, it is @Viet who usually starts the trolling fest by constantly creating threads about VN:

Japan to Give Vietnam Boats, Equipment Amid China's Buildup

U.S. ambassador to Vietnam visits the biggest Vietnamese community in America: Little Saigon

Vietnam capable of building oil rigs larger than China’s Haiyang 981

Premier Li urges China, Vietnam to maintain maritime stability

Vietnam-US relations: What the Vietnamese say

Taiwanese bank comes to Vietnam

Look at those threads and see for yourself who trolled/provoked who first, it is usually your countrymen or an ethnic Chinese instigating/provoking first, the other Vietnamese members were just responding in kind. And most of those troll fest threads above were started by @Viet.



Viet said:


> yoro, you can cry and shout as you like. you can spew insult and lies until you become black and red. I´m not impressed at all. I do what I like, and not what you decide what I have to do.
> 
> but you know what, I will ask the mods to either ban you or me on this forum.
> 
> Dear mods, this member yoro is a stalker, trying to stop me contributing on this forum, spewing nonsense and lies. pls ban him permanently. thank you!
> 
> @Hu Songshan
> @WebMaster
> @Horus



Where did I lie? Read the links above, I have given evidences to what I have described about you. And your childish comment I quoted is from this linked thread, I did not lie:

Watch Out China: Vietnam's Coast Guard Will Fight Back! | Page 3



Viet said:


> I assume you, your father and grandfather go everyday to the shrine, where the dead bodies and souls of our people are buried and masturbate. good time for you all indeed.




I’m telling you what to do? Isn’t that like what you said you tried to do with other Vietnamese members like BoQ77? didn’t you tried to tell him what to do, what to post and what not to post? You considered him a troll, I disagreed and consider you are the one who usually starts the troll fest, as evidenced by all your threads I linked above. If you named yourself as “Viet” and constantly create threads on Vietnam/Vietnamese that usually starts a trollfest, then I have the right, as a Vietnamese, to comment on your behaviour.

@Hu Songshan @Horus @WebMaster, yes you are welcomed to permanently ban me if you find that fitting. However, I’ll suggest that you permanently ban both @Viet and I, given the evidences I’ve given about Viet constantly starting threads on Vietnamese topics that usually cause a troll fest. At the very least, give us both a 1-2 month ban and you will see what I said was right and the trolling in this Far East section will decrease substantially.


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## DaiViet

Viet said:


> Lol ...slowly I believe to the words of @ChineseTiger1986 who says Yoro was short to being promoted to Thinktank status before he began trolling and trolling. he was banned. now out of frustration he goes rough, and the most unexpected thing happens: he began to personally attack me...like a stalker.
> 
> @Carlosa
> BoQ was permanently banned because he opened many chinese threads with intentional trollings. nonsense topics, and sometimes he created threads with domestic violent graphic images, including dead bodies. he was warned but did not want to listen. I appealed him many times to stop opening such threads, but he did not want to listen to me, either. if I remember myself correctly, I never created any chinese thread. but BoQ.


I dont know what is wrong between you two, but he got a point. This forum favors Chinese. This forum will kill your future if you hang out in here too much. Hang out with idiots and extremists will not make you a better person. Idiots and extemists are under bottom of society value chain. There is reason wny I am interested in military, I was ex U.S Army NCO. What is your college major may I asked? If it is not military, political sicence or related stay a way from this forum or you will be brain washed by extremists here.


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## Viet

DaiViet said:


> I There is reason wny I am interested in military, I was *ex U.S Army NCO.* What is your * college major *may I asked? If it is not military, political sicence or related stay a way from this forum or you will be brain washed by extremists here.


you are a ex non com? Cool. Can you tell me a bit what you had done. the forum you mentioned earlier I will stop by later. My colleague major? I graduated in Telecommunications at a German University, having a Master (Diplom). special subject: internet technology and infrastructure. I once worked for the German Stock Exchange, travelling many times to Chicago, where the oldest futures and options exchange sits: the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT). they had established a joint company there.

I passed by every morning the CBOT buiding below when walking from my rental appartment to office.





the city is wonderful in summer, free public concerts included.





has a Vietnam Veterans' Memorial, where 2,900 US soldiers from the State Illinois who died in the Vietnam War are engraved in a wall, and





...little Saigon in Argyle. Not so nice buidings and surroundings, but pho is ok.


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## Fattyacids

Yorozuya said:


> You are now trying to differentiate @Viet from the other so-called Vietnamese “trolls”. But you have previously generalised all Vietnamese trolling as dumb low IQ and grouped @Viet with all these Vietnamese trolling, here are quotes from you talking to @Viet in this thread (from post 103 onwards):
> 
> Mongolia should hold vote on rejoining China | Page 7
> 
> 
> 
> As for why I criticized @Viet and not the other Vietnamese members? Its because the other Vietnamese members usually dont start the trolling...like 80% of the time, they are just responding to the trolling/provocations started by your countrymen. On the other hand, it is @Viet who usually starts the trolling fest by constantly creating threads about VN:
> 
> Japan to Give Vietnam Boats, Equipment Amid China's Buildup
> 
> U.S. ambassador to Vietnam visits the biggest Vietnamese community in America: Little Saigon
> 
> Vietnam capable of building oil rigs larger than China’s Haiyang 981
> 
> Premier Li urges China, Vietnam to maintain maritime stability
> 
> Vietnam-US relations: What the Vietnamese say
> 
> Taiwanese bank comes to Vietnam
> 
> Look at those threads and see for yourself who trolled/provoked who first, it is usually your countrymen or an ethnic Chinese instigating/provoking first, the other Vietnamese members were just responding in kind. And most of those troll fest threads above were started by @Viet.



I was referring to this thread, a couple weeks ago.
Vietnam-US relations: What the Vietnamese say | Page 6

If you're going to dig out older thread, you can always find something on just about everyone. Yes, that was dumb trolling, but I've never called him dumb. Compared to most Vietnamese here, he looked like a mild-manner gentleman.

No, it was your comrades that drew the first blood. The reason you don't seen it now is because most of them are banned. You have to go back years to see how it all started. The content posted were almost all on China, Vietnamese came here not looking for discussion, but to troll, plain dumb trolling. Chinese of course retaliated. Nothing has changed today. Even if Viet stop posting, they'll still continue their act.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Latest pic of land reclamation in Big Spratly Island (Truong Sa):
> 
> View attachment 259173


nice, the runway seems will be enlarged. will be long to enough for our SU30 bombers to land and take off. what we need is bunkers for hosting the bombers, the 3 r´s: resting, refuelling, and rearment. but what are the 2 long shadows, above and below the island?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> nice, the runway seems will be enlarged. will be long to enough for our SU30 bombers to land and take off. what we need is bunkers for hosting the bombers, the 3 r´s: resting, refuelling, and rearment. but what are the 2 long shadows, above and below the island?



Unlikely that there will ever be SU-30 (or any other plane based there) in that island, its way too small and the marine weather is really bad for any plane stationed there. The runway extension is probably for the C-295 (it needs 700 meters for take off fully loaded).

Don't know about the shadow areas.

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## Viet

Fattyacids said:


> I was referring to this thread, a couple weeks ago.
> Vietnam-US relations: What the Vietnamese say | Page 6
> 
> If you're going to dig out older thread, you can always find something on just about everyone. Yes, that was dumb trolling, but I've never called him dumb. Compared to most Vietnamese here, he looked like a mild-manner gentleman.
> 
> No, it was your comrades that drew the first blood. The reason you don't seen it now is because most of them are banned. You have to go back years to see how it all started. The content posted were almost all on China, Vietnamese came here not looking for discussion, but to troll, plain dumb trolling. Chinese of course retaliated. Nothing has changed today. Even if Viet stop posting, they'll still continue their act.


Good und bad. Nobody is perfect. Everybody trolls. Me included. Though, if I troll a poster I try to make it that he doesn't notice. general racism against a person or a country is not acceptable. From your response here you certainly know for sure, seeing the differences. The tones matter. Banana eating monkey should not be the common phrase being used in personal communication. Some chinese posters drive me crazy. Thank for the flowers. That is not what I expected. I'd like to take back my bad words that had fallen against you. 

Cheers!


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Unlikely that there will ever be SU-30 (or any other plane based there) in that island, its way too small and the marine weather is really bad for any plane stationed there. The runway extension is probably for the C-295 (it needs 700 meters for take off fully loaded).
> 
> Don't know about the shadow areas.


We needn't station a squadron on truong sa lon. Two Su-30s are enough as interceptors. Quick response to any chinese provocation. Sure, first, the island must become bigger. Second, more infrastructures, including hardened hangar for the jets. the chinese rapidly build up many runways nearby. how to respond?


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## William Hung

Fattyacids said:


> I was referring to this thread, a couple weeks ago.
> Vietnam-US relations: What the Vietnamese say | Page 6
> 
> If you're going to dig out older thread, you can always find something on just about everyone. Yes, that was dumb trolling, but I've never called him dumb. Compared to most Vietnamese here, he looked like a mild-manner gentleman.



That thread I linked was not old, its from this year. I didnt said you called him dumb either, I said you called his “counter replies” as dumb. And your quotes that I’ve linked proves it, you once called his replies “dumb and low IQ” trolling. Now you have changed your words and called him more mild-manner (and more educated & rational) than the other Vietnamese here, but in the thread I linked you were generalising all Vietnamese “trolls” as trolling with low IQ/dumb remarks, which you included @Viet. So you have changed your rhetorics now.

But congrats, you have managed to make @Viet feel happy by turning around and saying a few nice words to him (we call this bơm đểu). It just proves my point that he is naive and easy to manipulate by Chinese members. If you are trying to say that the thread I brought up was old and I should not look at it, then OK lets forget that.




Fattyacids said:


> No, it was your comrades that drew the first blood. The reason you don't seen it now is because most of them are banned. You have to go back years to see how it all started. The content posted were almost all on China, Vietnamese came here not looking for discussion, but to troll, plain dumb trolling. Chinese of course retaliated.



So I previously brought up a Jan 2015 thread to make my point and you suggest its old...but now you are asking me to look back at threads that are years back?

Anyway, so maybe what you’ve described really was true years back, but what about now? I now hardly see any Vietnamese flaming on China without first being provoked. And that is what is important, the state of things as it is *now*. You suggest the reason why I don’t see it now is because most of Vietnamese trolls are banned...ok, that maybe the reason, but what is important is that we don’t see it now. And if you look at the threads I linked, it is usually some ethnic Chinese who, without any provocation from any Vietnamese, trolled on the Vietnamese first. Here are some active threads for example:

Premier Li urges China, Vietnam to maintain maritime stability

pinoys admire Vietnam education

Taiwanese bank comes to Vietnam

See who is provoking/trolling on who now. Its usually some ethnic Chinese who provoke first. The first thread was created by a Chinese with no bad intentions, the 2nd and 3rd are about VN-Philippines and VN-Taiwan. But other Chinese members still jumped in to start trolling away.

And my point still stands, most of the Vietnamese threads created by @Viet gives the Chinese troll the opportunity to jump in and troll on VN. And @Viet, as an oversea non-citizen, is not knowledgeable enough to defend his viet thread, he just usually abandon it and starts a new thread (look at the Taiwan-VN bank thread where he was clueless about domestic Viet banks and so cant argue against a false accusation)...and this cycle just continue.



Fattyacids said:


> Nothing has changed today. Even if Viet stop posting, they'll still continue their act.



Here you said “nothing has changed today...they’ll still continue their act” but just a few sentence back you said I “don’t see it anymore because the Vietnamese trolls are banned”. Your words are not consistent here. I dont “see it anymore” is the key here, not what happened years back or how you are predicting it to be in the future. Right *now*, most of the VN-CN flaming happened in most of @Viet’s thread and its usually some ethnic Chinese who first instigated it.

Admit it, some Chinese members are backing @Viet now because they want him to stay so that they have opportunities to manipulate and troll on. Like someone else said, I hardly see any other Chinese members creating Vietnamese related thread anymore, just only a few, while the majority are created by @Viet.


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## Viva_Viet

Yorozuya said:


> Admit it, some Chinese members are backing @Viet now because they want him to stay so that they have opportunities to manipulate and troll on. Like someone else said, I hardly see any other Chinese members creating Vietnamese related thread anymore, just only a few, while the majority are created by @Viet.


They can keep talking trash here, but No thing change in real life, so just skip it, bro


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## Viet

yoro, you goes nuts! I have reported your posts as off-topic/ no-value and put you on my ignore list.

by the way, i just notice BoQ is back. Go and troll him.
Attack Copters Wipe Out Chinese Tanks in Simulated Battle !

and check this out:
pinoys admire Vietnam education


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## biendong

To be cool bros.

we joined here just for that: don't let Chinese freely insult on us without reasonable responds.

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## DaiViet

Viet said:


> you are a ex non com? Cool. Can you tell me a bit what you had done. the forum you mentioned earlier I will stop by later. My colleague major? I graduated in Telecommunications at a German University, having a Master (Diplom). special subject: internet technology and infrastructure. I once worked for the German Stock Exchange, travelling many times to Chicago, where the oldest futures and options exchange sits: the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT). they had established a joint company there.
> 
> I passed by every morning the CBOT buiding below when walking from my rental appartment to office.
> 
> 
> the city is wonderful in summer, free public concerts included.
> 
> 
> has a Vietnam Veterans' Memorial, where 2,900 US soldiers from the State Illinois who died in the Vietnam War are engraved in a wall, and
> 
> 
> ...little Saigon in Argyle. Not so nice buidings and surroundings, but pho is ok.


You said you have a master degree in diplomat? I am hearing you wrong? I thought you were a kid on the block, because the way you speak and arguring more


----------



## Fattyacids

Yorozuya said:


> That thread I linked was not old, its from this year. I didnt said you called him dumb either, I said you called his “counter replies” as dumb. And your quotes that I’ve linked proves it, you once called his replies “dumb and low IQ” trolling. Now you have changed your words and called him more mild-manner (and more educated & rational) than the other Vietnamese here, but in the thread I linked you were generalising all Vietnamese “trolls” as trolling with low IQ/dumb remarks, which you included @Viet. So you have changed your rhetorics now.
> 
> But congrats, you have managed to make @Viet feel happy by turning around and saying a few nice words to him (we call this bơm đểu). It just proves my point that he is naive and easy to manipulate by Chinese members. If you are trying to say that the thread I brought up was old and I should not look at it, then OK lets forget that.



For anyone who doesn't live his life in PDF, an 9 months old thread is vintage.

I stand by what I said. Anyone can be susceptible in making stupid remark, but you're a low IQ troll when you repeat and recycle the shit again and again.



Yorozuya said:


> So I previously brought up a Jan 2015 thread to make my point and you suggest its old...but now you are asking me to look back at threads that are years back?
> 
> Anyway, so maybe what you’ve described really was true years back, but what about now? I now hardly see any Vietnamese flaming on China without first being provoked. And that is what is important, the state of things as it is *now*. You suggest the reason why I don’t see it now is because most of Vietnamese trolls are banned...ok, that maybe the reason, but what is important is that we don’t see it now. And if you look at the threads I linked, it is usually some ethnic Chinese who, without any provocation from any Vietnamese, trolled on the Vietnamese first. Here are some active threads for example:
> 
> Premier Li urges China, Vietnam to maintain maritime stability
> 
> pinoys admire Vietnam education
> 
> Taiwanese bank comes to Vietnam
> See who is provoking/trolling on who now. Its usually some ethnic Chinese who provoke first. The first thread was created by a Chinese with no bad intentions, the 2nd and 3rd are about VN-Philippines and VN-Taiwan. But other Chinese members still jumped in to start trolling away.



I said you have to go back years to see how the feud started. Having sex is not the same as making love. You dug out an old thread to find dirt over a new spat that happened a week ago.

In a nationalistic military forum, taking a swipe at one another is inevitable, it's whether you argue and troll intelligently, or make dumb remark one after another, smear and troll retardedly.

I looked through the three thread, they are a speck of dust compared to the rotten filth your comrades are capable of.



Yorozuya said:


> Here you said “nothing has changed today...they’ll still continue their act” but just a few sentence back you said I “don’t see it anymore because the Vietnamese trolls are banned”. Your words are not consistent here. I dont “see it anymore” is the key here, not what happened years back or how you are predicting it to be in the future. Right *now*, most of the VN-CN flaming happened in most of @Viet’s thread and its usually some ethnic Chinese who first instigated it.
> 
> Admit it, some Chinese members are backing @Viet now because they want him to stay so that they have opportunities to manipulate and troll on. Like someone else said, I hardly see any other Chinese members creating Vietnamese related thread anymore, just only a few, while the majority are created by @Viet.



Nothing can be consistent when you put two of my sentences together out of context. Once again, having sex is not making love.

Make your judgement when PDF moderation revert back to sleep mode and when your comrades are all released.

If you truly care about VN's reputation, go take on the low life Vietnamese trolls instead. Chinese want no part in your personal vendetta. I'm here only because you tagged me.


----------



## Viet

DaiViet said:


> You said you have a master degree in diplomat? I am hearing you wrong? I thought you were *a kid on the block*, because the way you speak and arguring more


*Diplom*, not Diplomat! the first title is what you receive if you graduate in engineering subject a german university, comparable to master in english.

yes, I was a dirty poor but happy kid on the block when I was young, back then VN.



biendong said:


> To be cool bros.
> 
> we joined here just for that: don't let Chinese freely insult on us without reasonable responds.


I stay cool. and it is a fact as everybody here can´t deny: the number of chinese dummies on this forum exceeds far the of from VN. I just don´t understand what yoro has in mind. he was reasonable, but now he goes full on attacking mode. on me. citing lie, wrong allegation and worse: bullshit.


----------



## Carlosa

DaiViet said:


> You said you have a master degree in diplomat? I am hearing you wrong? I thought you were a kid on the block, because the way you speak and arguring more



He meant diploma (in English).

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## Viet

Yorozuya said:


> That thread I linked was not old, its from this year. I didnt said you called him dumb either, I said you called his “counter replies” as dumb. And your quotes that I’ve linked proves it, you once called his replies “dumb and low IQ” trolling. Now you have changed your words and called him more mild-manner (and more educated & rational) than the other Vietnamese here, but in the thread I linked you were generalising all Vietnamese “trolls” as trolling with low IQ/dumb remarks, which you included @Viet. So you have changed your rhetorics now.
> 
> But congrats, you have managed to make @Viet feel happy by turning around and saying a few nice words to him (we call this bơm đểu). It just proves my point that he is naive and easy to manipulate by Chinese members. If you are trying to say that the thread I brought up was old and I should not look at it, then OK lets forget that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I previously brought up a Jan 2015 thread to make my point and you suggest its old...but now you are asking me to look back at threads that are years back?
> 
> Anyway, so maybe what you’ve described really was true years back, but what about now? I now hardly see any Vietnamese flaming on China without first being provoked. And that is what is important, the state of things as it is *now*. You suggest the reason why I don’t see it now is because most of Vietnamese trolls are banned...ok, that maybe the reason, but what is important is that we don’t see it now. And if you look at the threads I linked, it is usually some ethnic Chinese who, without any provocation from any Vietnamese, trolled on the Vietnamese first. Here are some active threads for example:
> 
> Premier Li urges China, Vietnam to maintain maritime stability
> 
> pinoys admire Vietnam education
> 
> Taiwanese bank comes to Vietnam
> 
> See who is provoking/trolling on who now. Its usually some ethnic Chinese who provoke first. The first thread was created by a Chinese with no bad intentions, the 2nd and 3rd are about VN-Philippines and VN-Taiwan. But other Chinese members still jumped in to start trolling away.
> 
> And my point still stands, most of the Vietnamese threads created by @Viet gives the Chinese troll the opportunity to jump in and troll on VN. And @Viet, as an oversea non-citizen, is not knowledgeable enough to defend his viet thread, he just usually abandon it and starts a new thread (look at the Taiwan-VN bank thread where he was clueless about domestic Viet banks and so cant argue against a false accusation)...and this cycle just continue.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you said “nothing has changed today...they’ll still continue their act” but just a few sentence back you said I “don’t see it anymore because the Vietnamese trolls are banned”. Your words are not consistent here. I dont “see it anymore” is the key here, not what happened years back or how you are predicting it to be in the future. Right *now*, most of the VN-CN flaming happened in most of @Viet’s thread and its usually some ethnic Chinese who first instigated it.
> 
> Admit it, some Chinese members are backing @Viet now because they want him to stay so that they have opportunities to manipulate and troll on. Like someone else said, I hardly see any other Chinese members creating Vietnamese related thread anymore, just only a few, while the majority are created by @Viet.


yoro, you are dumb.

you construct a story to defame me. if I want, I can construct a story to prove you are a duck. I don´t know the reason, but I guess you are acting out of low instinct.

first, the number of threads I created all the years, combined, are probably lower of those of TaiShang creates in a single day. You forget to mention the threads being created by other Viet members, and of course by yourself. don´t these threads matter at all? Nothing? Just my thread is dirty, while yours and other are clean?

because I live oversea hence no credibility? it that your logic?
you say stuying and living oversea, too. but is it ok, you have all credibility?

if chinese troll in my thread, then it is dirty. if the same chinese troll in your threads and in other vietnamese member created threads, then it is clean?

because somebody trolls, it is my fault by your definition?

there are a huge number of threads running active right now, with all the lies and insults about VN and our people. why don´t you jump in and defend VN and our people? why do you keep silent?

I am not here to lick chinese azz as you try to prove. if anything it is YOU!

last, I don´t care of what you think about me. It is not important. yoro, FCK OFF!

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## Viet

so I hope the dumb duck yoro never appears here again, and we all can continue to post military news of Vietnam here in this thread. I don´t know much about him, who he is, from where he comes, but just hope he knows it is time to piss off.


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## DaiViet

Viet said:


> *Diplom*, not Diplomat! the first title is what you receive if you graduate in engineering subject a german university, comparable to master in english.
> 
> yes, I was a dirty poor but happy kid on the block when I was young, back then VN.
> 
> .


I think that equivalents to Bachelor degree. While youre an engineer why you spend so much time in these forum? Obviously it wont help advance your career, not only that it may destroy your career.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> so I hope the dumb duck yoro never appears here again, and we all can continue to post military news of Vietnam here in this thread. I don´t know much about him, who he is, from where he comes, but just hope he knows it is time to piss off.





Viet said:


> I stay cool. and it is a fact as everybody here can´t deny: the number of chinese dummies on this forum exceeds far the of from VN. I just don´t understand what yoro has in mind. he was reasonable, but now he goes full on attacking mode. on me. citing lie, wrong allegation and worse: bullshit.



Wow you called me a stalker but now you’ve made 4 consecutive posts about me after I have stopped. So you want me to carry on or something?

You called me a liar but I have challenged you to show me where and you still haven’t done so.

I have already provided plenty of links to prove my points about you, that most of your Vietnamese threads are infested with Chinese trolls, and that you do not have enough knowledge about VN to defend your threads against Chinese attacks/trolling...your last thread about VN-TW banks proved this. Its usually you running away from your own threads when the Chinese trolling gets too overwhelming and its the other Viet members who had to deal with the Chinese trolls. Most of your threads I previously linked showed this.

And yes, beneath your “pro-Vietnam” facade, all you want is acceptance and approvals from the Chinese here. Is this just a story I made up? no, you have already exposed yourself like what I’ve described.

You refused to take the polite advices of other Vietnamese members like ComradeNam and DaiViet, but you instead believed the words of the Chinese members here, even thanked fattyacid for his “flowers” ( what the hell does this flower mean?). Not only did you refused to accept the Vietnamese advices, you even turned around and attacked another Vietnamese member like BoQ77 and called him a troll. But at the same time, you clicked on the like button of a well-known anti-Vietnam troll @ChineseTiger1986 because he gave you some fake praise. And this ChineseTiger1986 guy is one of the trolls that called VN “monkey”. But it doesnt matter to you that he is an anti-VN troll isn’t it? You clicked his like button in the previous few pages because he gave you some praise (fake praise). So what does this mean? It just proves my point that beneath your “pro-VN” facade, the only thing that you want from PDF is acceptance and approval from the Chinese. So this is not a story I have made up. You have actually exposed yourself to be how I have described you. You sometime argue back against the Chinese trolls, but its not because they are anti-VN, but its because they refused to accept you. The fact that you clicked the like button of a well-known anti-VN Chinese troll for cheap praises proved this. This probably also explains why you keep refusing to leave here. You are now in the denial phase.

But yes, its your personal rights, you have the freedom to act however you like, seeking validation from the Chinese or whatever, it should not be my business. But the problem is, and the reason I’m on your tail, is that you named yourself “@Viet”, always talk like you are some kind of VN govt spokesperson, and were constantly creating threads on Vietnam, that gives opportunity for Chinese trolls to attack and insult VN and you usually can’t defend your threads, you would usually abandon the thread and start a new one, not caring that your new threads will just invite more trolling from the Chinese. But now its clear why you don’t care about the Chinese trollings that follow your threads. Just like how you clicked the like button of the anti-Vietnam ChineseTiger1986, you do not really care about the anti-Vietnam trolling, because deep down, your only goal here is to get approval and validation from the Chinese.

And please dont call this lies and BS. You have exposed yourself when you clicked on the like button of ChineseTiger1986 on post #4860 for some cheap and fake praise. And this ChineseTiger1986 is a well known anti-VN racist who called Vietnamese “monkey”.

The point is this, you can stay here and do whatever you want. But change your name from “Viet” into something else, if you label yourself Viet, then other Vietnamese have the right to comment on your actions here. And stop spamming this forum with your Vietnamese threads. The majority of Vietnamese threads were created by you. Someone already explained to you that this section is biased towards the Chinese, so why do you keep creating Vietnamese threads when it will inevitably become a playground for the Chinese to trolls, especially when you cant defend your thread properly? Yes, I and other Viets something create threads, only a small portion, but atleast we can defend ourselves. So if you stop creating troll infested threads here, then you can do whatever else you want, its not my business.

I think this is all that needs to be said. This discussion can end here. Stop responding to me and I will stop responding to you.


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## Viet

yoro, you make accusations, personal attack and ask me to stop responding to you?

no. you are not only a stalker, but a dumb duck.
dumb, because you assume others are dumb while you are the only one who is smart.
duck, because you quack the some story, same shit over and over again. you probably don´t even notice it.

why should I change my nickname "Viet" to what you like?
what don´t you change to silly name "yoro" to a "silly duck"?
why don´t you ask daiViet and Viva_Viet to change their names?

why not?

there is a troll thread right now:
pinoys admire Vietnam education
why don´t you jump in and defend VN?

why don´t other Viet members complain about me, but just you?

the majority of VN threads were created by me?
I bet you even bother to count, how many I created, how many by yourself and other posters. yoro, you are a lying duck.

beneath my “pro-Vietnam” facade, all I want is acceptance and approvals from the Chinese here?
I believe you begin to sound like a psychopath. a psychopath duck. didn´t you once create a VN-CN friendship thread? maybe you should lick harder then you will get what you want: acceptance and approval from the chinese.

@ChineseTiger1986
is a well known anti-VN racist who called Vietnamese “monkey”?
there are a lot of chinese posters here who spew racism and insults, however, I don´t remember he is. can you post here some of his citations? I bet you are a typical liar. as usual.

it is so funny to see you cited my thread about TW bank to make up your story. the thread was about my message to Martian2. if the message is delivered, I´m done. you seem to dig deep in the dirt, don´t you? TaiShang and other chinese posters open in a single day more threads than me in all the years. but you make your hands dirty searching for my posts and threads.

yes, at least one thing I can agree to you at the end. I think this is all that needs to be said. This discussion can end here. Stop responding to me and I will stop responding to you. your words.

Dear valued Mods, can you pls intervene here. Thank you! Much appreciated.
@Hu Songshan
@Horus
@WebMaster

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## Viet

DaiViet said:


> I think that equivalents to Bachelor degree. While youre an engineer why you spend so much time in these forum? Obviously it wont help advance your career, not only that it may destroy your career.


yes, obviously I waste my time here.

I say diplom or diploma as Carlosa says, while you understand diplomat.
I say graduated at university, while you understand college.
I hope you know the difference: receiving diploma if graduated at the first, bachelor if graduated at the latter.


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## Sasquatch

@Yorozuya @Viet 

Enough of this if you want to discuss this issue I suggest PM each other, it's derailing the thread.

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> is a well known anti-VN racist who called Vietnamese “monkey”?
> there are a lot of chinese posters here who spew racism and insults, however, I don´t remember he is. can you post here some of his citations? I bet you are a typical liar. as usual.



I’m not going to reply to the other part because its just weird, like that duck part. I’ve already backed up what I said with links and post reference, etc.

I dont know why you are telling me to get in that DaiViet thread when I’ve already said I am leaving this forum. I don’t post outside anymore. The only reason Im posting in this thread is because you still keep replying to me, and make false accusations. When you stop replying, then I will leave the forum altogether.

And you still cant prove your accusations that I’m a liar. You say Im a liar when I said ChineseTiger1986 is racist and called VN monkey? Well here is the links:

History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam? | Page 71


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You have to know that it is unfortunate for China being surrounded by a bunch of greedy monkeys.



PM Dung: Vietnam will stake claim to East Sea islands peacefully | Page 6


ChineseTiger1986 said:


> And the tiger's first little snack will be a that tiny little monkey AKA Vietnam.
> 
> Owned!!!



See you still cant prove Im a liar. So can we stop now? Some of your Chinese friends are actually waiting for me to leave here permanently.



Hu Songshan said:


> @Yorozuya @Viet
> 
> Enough of this if you want to discuss this issue I suggest PM each other, it's derailing the thread.



You need to thank me, ever since I’ve told @Viet to stop spamming this Far East section with his Vietnamese threads, the VN-CN trolling has decreased *substantially*. The proofs is out there.

Anyway, I am now leaving this forum permanently. 

Last post. Hopefully Viet dont reply back.


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## DaiViet

Viet said:


> yes, obviously I waste my time here.
> 
> I say diplom or diploma as Carlosa says, while you understand diplomat.
> I say graduated at university, while you understand college.
> I hope you know the difference: receiving diploma if graduated at the first, bachelor if graduated at the latter.


Cool down, you two fight like some women. One guy resorts from those Chinese bias mods to help ban another Viet fellow. Another guy gives himself the auhority to force someone do as he said because he thinks has better right to speak for majority Viet. If there is Civil war, you two best to represent each side northern vs southern.

About diplom thing, I am sure Youre confused. Here where I live in US, college and university use interchanbeably even though it is wrong. When you said master, this mean the person holds higher degree than a bachelor, called graduated degree while bachelor called under graduate degree.

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## DaiViet

Added

Also in US diploma refers to high school diploma while degree refers to anything higher than high school diploma? Often you will hear " I have master degree in ..." Or " I have master in ..."


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## ChineseTiger1986

Yorozuya said:


> I’m not going to reply to the other part because its just weird, like that duck part. I’ve already backed up what I said with links and post reference, etc.
> 
> I dont know why you are telling me to get in that DaiViet thread when I’ve already said I am leaving this forum. I don’t post outside anymore. The only reason Im posting in this thread is because you still keep replying to me, and make false accusations. When you stop replying, then I will leave the forum altogether.
> 
> And you still cant prove your accusations that I’m a liar. You say Im a liar when I said ChineseTiger1986 is racist and called VN monkey? Well here is the links:
> 
> History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam? | Page 71
> 
> 
> PM Dung: Vietnam will stake claim to East Sea islands peacefully | Page 6
> 
> 
> See you still cant prove Im a liar. So can we stop now? Some of your Chinese friends are actually waiting for me to leave here permanently.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to thank me, ever since I’ve told @Viet to stop spamming this Far East section with his Vietnamese threads, the VN-CN trolling has decreased *substantially*. The proofs is out there.
> 
> Anyway, I am now leaving this forum permanently.
> 
> Last post. Hopefully Viet dont reply back.



Well, I already got warned by using these remarks, so I don't use those derogatory remarks anymore.


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## Viet

DaiViet said:


> About diplom thing,* I am sure Youre confused*. Here where I live in US, college and university use interchanbeably even though it is wrong. When you said master, this mean the person holds higher degree than a bachelor, called graduated degree while bachelor called under graduate degree.


I say: diploma, university, germany.
you understand: diplomat, college, america.

bro, there are only 3 words. read these. and is it so difficult to understand: education system of germany is not identical to america?

let me go back and delete my original post. the more I reply, the more confused you seem to become.

though let stop here. we are derailing the thread.


----------



## xudoai

Flag rising ceremony for two new warship local made in Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

wow..........things got escalated quick in such a short time.............well anyway this is a exercise


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## Viet

September 24, 2015
more pictures of the domestic made Molniya warships, coded HQ379 and HQ380, officially coming into service of the Navy.

specs:

built by the Ba Son shipyard, the vessels can operate at sea for 10 straight days, withstand winds as strong as 74kph, designed to attack targets both air and sea.
two AK-630 naval guns, one AK-176M automatic gun
16 guided antiship missiles (Uran-E), range 130 kilometers


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## Viet

some military events

the pioneer group are set to receive 5 russia made tractors B14. good for supporting reclamation and construction works on the spratly islands group.







domestic made acquisition Radar RV-02, capable to detect enemy stealth aircraft.








New training jet for fighter pilots: _L-39NG (Czech Republic)_







Hanoi on September 21
Receiving the Commander of the US Coast Guard, Admiral Paul Zukunft. it is highnoon, urgent to learn, cooperate, acquire modern vessels to strengthen the Coast Guard from a Superpower.


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## Aqsuperman

well.......that ring back some good old memories


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## Viet

Two vietnam made weapons

SPG-9T2: anti-tank gun, manufactured in factory Z12



































a Molniya attack warship test firing a guided antiship missile (Uran-E). Each vessel carries 16 missiles, with firing rate of less than 5 seconds a missile. a salvo of 16 missiles will take as little as some 80 seconds. the missile is build using russia license and technology.

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## Viet

somewhere in the South China Sea: a landing maneuver.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> well.......that ring back some good old memories


wow, is it the real legendary T34?
I believe if someone wants to make a film about World War 2, they just need to ask the Vietnam´s People Army.






72 years ago: the greatest tank battle in the world history, with 6,000 tanks involved in the Battle of Kursk (1943). 

Soviet T34 tanks






...against German Tiger I tanks


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## Thao Nguyen

Vietnamese torpedo made by X28 factory


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> Vietnamese torpedo made by X28 factory


for me, they look like sea mines than torpedo.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Expands New Aircraft Support Apron*
September 18, 2015
By Chris Biggers





*Located near the important deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay, a new aircraft support apron has been recently added and expanded, satellite imagery confirms.

*
Vietnam is currently engaged in a long delayed military modernization program. For obvious reasons, part of the modernization has been centered on the Navy which aims to bring substantial combat capability online in the shortest time frame.

Available space snapshots from March 2015 show the expansion of an aircraft ramp located on the southeast side of Cam Ranh International airport. Construction on the ramp has been ongoing since late 2013.

Additional imagery from July, unavailable for publication at this time, has shown at least two Ka-28 ASW helicopters parked in front of the hangars. It’s possible these may be the two observed in Vietnam’s colors last November in the Crimea.

If imagery is any indicator, Vietnam could be making room for more.

Given the vessels on order for the Navy, it’s likely the apron represents the land-based component supporting Vietnam’s ship-based helos. Most notably, the helos deployed on the Russian-built Gepard class frigates and other coastal patrol vessels. (The Gepard class does not have a built-in hangar for its deployed helos). Two Gepards, the King Dinh Tien Hoang (924-979) and King Ly Thai To (974-1028), were delivered in 2011. Both are currently home ported nearby at the Cam Rahn Bay naval base, not far from Vietnam’s four Kilo submarines.

Russia’s Zelenodolsk Shipyard in Tatarstan has been contracted to build four more of the Gepard class for the southeast Asian nation. The second frigate batch, reportedly optimized for the ASW mission, is scheduled for delivery in 2017. A third batch was also reported last February.

Two helos are thought to support each assigned vessel.

bellingcat - Vietnam Expands New Aircraft Support Apron

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## pigtaker

Thao Nguyen said:


> Vietnamese torpedo made by X28 factory


using a better paint next time, looks ugly


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## Viet

pigtaker said:


> using a better paint next time, looks ugly


what color would you prefer, in rose, in letters "to China with love"?


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## Viet

Four russia made mine sweepers are reportely in service.

_Yurka class_






_Sonya class_

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> wow, is it the real legendary T34?
> I believe if someone wants to make a film about World War 2, they just need to ask the Vietnam´s People Army.


... Those T-34-85 should all retired from VPA, coz today 12.7mm APCR from machine-gun or anti-materiel sniper can shoot through 35mm front steel plate (even not composite armor) ... waste lots money to maintain these old tanks.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> for me, they look like sea mines than torpedo.


yes, I don't know its name in English exactly


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> ... Those T-34-85 should all retired from VPA, coz today 12.7mm APCR from machine-gun or anti-materiel sniper can shoot through 35mm front steel plate (even not composite armor) ... waste lots money to maintain these old tanks.
> View attachment 260808


look at the accompaning infantrymen: they wear training helmets, unprotected.
those T34 are more for excercises than used on battlefields.


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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> yes, I don't know its name in English exactly


torpedo in the Navy

Type 53-65











TEST 71ME-NK


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## Aqsuperman

well technically T-34 only available for training and med evac now ( the turret and the fighting compartment got removed ) but hey in case of emergency they can still be somewhat useful against infantry..........if VN still got some ammunition left :v ..........anyway there is another type of vehicle with comparable age to the T-34.................oh my good lord we can get tons of money from loaning them to film maker :v


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## Viet

Protecting the sky. Arial Defence with S-300PMU1, Vietnam´s most powerful long range surface to air missile.


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## Cao Đài

Should send those old tank to museum and advertise it. Our war museum got a lot of visitor can gain $$ and school often send children there to study about history


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## Barmaley

Sixth submarine for Vietnamese Navy "Vung Tau" was launched today.










History of Vietnamese submarine series:
№ 01339 — laid down 24.08.10 — launched 28.08.12 — commissioned 07.11.13 — *HQ-182 «Ha Noi»*

№ 01340 — laid down 28.09.11 — launched 28.12.12 — commissioned 16.01.14 — *HQ-183 «Ho Chi Minh»*

№ 01341 — laid down 28.03.12 — launched 28.08.13 — commissioned 04.12.14 — *HQ-184 «Hai Phong»*

№ 01342 — laid down 23.10.12 — launched 28.03.14 — *HQ-185 «Khanh Hoa»*

№ 01343 — laid down 01.07.13 — launched 28.12.14 — *HQ-186 «Da Nang»*

№ 01344 — laid down 28.05.14 — launched 28.09.15 — *HQ-187 «Vung Tau»*

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> well technically T-34 only available for training and med evac now ( the turret and the fighting compartment got removed ) but hey in case of emergency they can still be somewhat useful against infantry..........if VN still got some ammunition left :v ..........anyway there is another type of vehicle with comparable age to the T-34.................oh my good lord we can get tons of money from loaning them to film maker :v



It seems like the Sigma deal is suspended, do you know why? I thought 2 ships were under construction, contracts were signed, etc, so this is quite a puzzle. 

What's the deal with the TT-1500? Is it a military ship or a coast guard ship? That's a nice corvette size.


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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> Sixth submarine for Vietnamese Navy "Vung Tau" was launched today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of Vietnamese submarine series:
> № 01339 — laid down 24.08.10 — launched 28.08.12 — commissioned 07.11.13 — *HQ-182 «Ha Noi»*
> 
> № 01340 — laid down 28.09.11 — launched 28.12.12 — commissioned 16.01.14 — *HQ-183 «Ho Chi Minh»*
> 
> № 01341 — laid down 28.03.12 — launched 28.08.13 — commissioned 04.12.14 — *HQ-184 «Hai Phong»*
> 
> № 01342 — laid down 23.10.12 — launched 28.03.14 — *HQ-185 «Khanh Hoa»*
> 
> № 01343 — laid down 01.07.13 — launched 28.12.14 — *HQ-186 «Da Nang»*
> 
> № 01344 — laid down 28.05.14 — launched 28.09.15 — *HQ-187 «Vung Tau»*


nice pictures. actually both subs 184-Hai Phong & 185-Khanh Hoa entered service on a same day, August 1st, this year.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> It seems like the Sigma deal is suspended, do you know why? I thought 2 ships were under construction, contracts were signed, etc, so this is quite a puzzle.
> 
> What's the deal with the TT-1500? Is it a military ship or a coast guard ship? That's a nice corvette size.


long time no see bro (you kept silent during my dispute here) 
I read, too that Sigma is suspended because the negotiation is reaching a dead end. very little info why. bad news.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> long time no see bro (you kept silent during my dispute here)
> I read, too that Sigma is suspended because the negotiation is reaching a dead end. very little info why. bad news.



Yes, difficult to understand what's going on with the Sigmas, I hate this situation of never getting anything official about anything related to the military. The Gepard is the main surface ship now, that's bad news man. Oh well.

I saw the dispute thing, there was no need to be fighting like that among the Vietnamese members, it really looks bad, can have differences but no need to attack and insult. Its ok if some people want to have a low profile here and other people like to be very active, I think we all agree that this forum is controlled by the chinese and is heavily biased towards them but nobody can tell others what to do either.


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## Aqsuperman

Technically Sigma is on the list but yeah , been quite a while since some news about its construction and technology transfer , so probably it run into some serious delay or worse but no clear offiial statement yet 

well TT is normally mean Tuần Tra or Patrol but in wartime its probably will be equipped better stuff than just a ordinary Marine Police vessel


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, difficult to understand what's going on with the Sigmas, I hate this situation of never getting anything official about anything related to the military. The Gepard is the main surface ship now, that's bad news man. Oh well.


from the beginning, sigma is a never ending story. one never knows what´s fact what not. the government is not saying anything. who knows more? only the heaven can tell. or the time.
oh yes and well, for the coming 3 years, the gepard remains the warship class, building the backbone of our surface fleet. too little. too weak.

where our future guided missile destroyers? no hope? 

this article below says Vietnam is acquiring two sigma built in the Netherland, while seeking to assemble undisclosed number in Vietnam. with technology transfer. I think, the latter part is the most challenged. first, not easy to get western technology, second, considering the US still keeps arms embargo, more or less.

Damen seeking stake in Vietnam shipyard - IHS Maritime 360

from the today news, Sent. Lieut. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh is leading a high ranking army delegation for a visit to the Pentagon. though this is sold to the public a "normal" defence dialogue, seeking to build trust between the US armed forces and Vietnam´s People Army, I think it is more under the surface. Let wait for the outcome. or whatever comes.

or how the germans tend to say in hopeless situations.

"wir hoffen auf ein wunder!".

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> "wir hoffen auf ein wunder!".



hahaha, how cute! I thought, "_Ja mein Fuhrer wie filden dir_!"


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## Aqsuperman

testing sample


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## Viet

London, September 30

Following the UK’s opening of its Military Attache Office in Hanoi in 2013, Vietnam now opens Military Attache Office, boosting the bilateral strategic partnership between Vietnam and United Kingdom.







...and this news that surprises me a bit: the Army has a bank: Vietnam´s Military Bank, operating as normal commercial bank. Coming more into the public surface as the bank seeks to increase capital to boost expansion.
INTERVIEW-Vietnam's Military Bank sees 2016 net profit growing 7-10 pct| Reuters


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## Aqsuperman

these shall deal nicely with amphibious boat and infantry


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## Viet

Da-Nang Seaport, Friday, October 02, 2015. Central Vietnam, next to the SC Sea, and not too far distant to major China Submarine base on Hainan Island.

Indian stealth frigate INS Sahyadri on 4 day friendly visit to Vietnam.


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## Viet

INS Sahyadri, good hunting!













Also, it is planned to do some "peaceful" drills in the SC Sea between the two Navies.


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## Viet

more pictures of the Sixth Kilo-class submarine launch ceremony.

September 28, *HQ-187 Ba Ria Vung Tau*, at the Admiralty Shipyard in St. Petersburg. the submariners stand ready to serve the ship on the sea trails. all kilo subs are equipped with deadly supersonic klub-s cruise missiles targeting sea and land targets.

I hope the Navy will order more of this toy.

*



*

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## Aqsuperman

small boat fot patrolling near-mainland


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## Viet

aq, nice pic. let me enlarge it.


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## Aqsuperman

isnt this just beautiful ?


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## JaiMin

Dự án Đại Sự Ký Biển Đông

Webpage for those interested in SCS matter and debate about it as well as legitimate issue
@Yorozuya , @Viet, @AViet, @Rechoice , @DaiViet , @Viva_Viet, @vtnsx,

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> more pictures of the Sixth Kilo-class submarine launch ceremony.
> 
> September 28, *HQ-187 Ba Ria Vung Tau*, at the Admiralty Shipyard in St. Petersburg. the submariners stand ready to serve the ship on the sea trails. all kilo subs are equipped with deadly supersonic klub-s cruise missiles targeting sea and land targets.
> 
> I hope the Navy will order more of this toy.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



What does "Baria" mean?


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## biendong

Barmaley said:


> What does "Baria" mean?



"*Ba Ria Vung Tau*" is the name of province in Vietnam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bà_Rịa-Vũng_Tàu_Province





Location of Bà Rịa-Vũng Tàu within Vietnam

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## Viet

*Vietnam Is Changing... And So Is the Balance of Power in Asia*
All signs point to intense internal debate on leadership and foreign policy.





By Carl Thayer
October 02, 2015

On September 15, Vietnam’s political log jam suddenly burst with the simultaneous launch of a website dedicated to preparations for the twelfth national party congress and the release of the draft Political Report and Socio-Economic Plan for 2016-2020.

The Vietnamese public has been given until the end of October to send in comments on the draft policy documents.

Key policy documents are usually released well in advance of a national congress. For example, the draft Political Report and Five-Year Socio-Economic Plan were released nine months before the eleventh national party congress in January 2011. This time only four months remain to complete preparations for the twelfth congress scheduled for January 2016.

Prior to the launch of the website and release of key policy documents, Vietnam’s preparations for the twelfth party congress had been particularly low key. Although leadership selection was discussed at the eleventh plenary meeting of the party Central Committee that met in May no announcements were made.

Observers in Hanoi report that the Central Committee may reconvene in October to resolve the impasse over leadership with a further session planned for November if consensus cannot be reached.

Media reports suggest there are two main contenders for the post of party Secretary General – Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and his long-term rival President Truong Tan Sang. Both are southerners. The post of party leader has traditionally gone to a northerner.

If the party Central Committee cannot reach consensus there are two likely possibilities. The first possibility is that both candidates will stand down and retire from politics and the next party leader will be chosen from among the members of the current Politburo who are eligible for election at the congress.

The second possibility could see the incumbent party leader, Nguyen Phu Trong, reappointed on the understanding that he would make way for another leader before his five-year term in office expired. This solution would mirror the decision by the eighth party congress in 1996 to re-appoint Do Muoi as party Secretary General on the understanding he would step down before mid-term. Do Muoi was replaced by Le Kha Phieu in late 1997.

When Vietnam enters its political season in advance of a national party congress current events are subject to intense scrutiny by political observers to discern which way the winds are blowing. This year is no exception.

For example, when the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi held a reception to celebrate its National Day (held early on September 29) Vietnam was represented by its Minister for Planning and Investment, Bui Quang Vinh. Vinh is not a member of the Politburo and is expected to retire after the twelfth party congress. There was intense speculation in Hanoi why such a comparatively “low level” official represented the Vietnamese government.

On September 30, the day after the reception, Vietnamese media reported that Ha Huy Hoang, a former employee of Ministry of Foreign Affairs and a former journalist with the _Vietnam and the World_ _Weekly,_ had been tried and convicted for spying for China. Hoang was sentenced to six years in jail.

Media reporting on espionage cases involving Vietnamese citizens are exceedingly rare. This led to speculation on the timing of the trial and who authorised media reporting. Speculation only intensified when _Tuoi Tre_, _VnExpress _and other media outlets took down their reports from their websites on the afternoon of publication. Speculation now turned to who ordered that these reports be rescinded and why.

The timing of the espionage trial took place in the midst of continued in-fighting by Vietnam’s political elite as the twelfth party congress approaches. It is clear that one central issue that has yet to be resolved is how Vietnam will manage its relations with China and the United States. For example, the anoydyne draft Politicial Report gave no hint of future policy directions on this vexed question.

It is evident that some elements of Vietnam’s political elite approved media reporting of the espionage trial involving China and a Vietnamese citizen. This development follows on the heels of reports that China has been given permission to open a Consulate General in Da Nang.

The publicity given to the espionage trial, and the decision to rescind news reporting, is a significant sign that how Vietnam manages its relations with China and the United States is a heated topic at the moment. Those who oppose getting too close to the United States highlight the “threat of peaceful evolution” as a national security threat. They point to U.S. pressure on human rights and religious freedom as part of this threat.

The allegations of Chinese espionage fuels allied concerns that China continues to interfere in Vietnam’s internal affairs and may be attempting to influence the outcome of the forthcoming national party congress. Hanoi based observers have told _The Diplomat_ that China has informed selected Vietnamese leaders that it opposes the elevation of Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, who is viewed as pro-American.

Vietnamese sources also report that China has let it be known privately that President Xi Jinping may call off his expected visit to Vietnam this month if Hanoi does not mute its criticism of China’s construction of artificial islands in the South China Sea. These same sources believe the visit will go ahead because so much is at stake for China.

Those who want closer ties with the United States stress the economic advantages of membership in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. This group is now countering the argument of the “threat of peaceful evolution” by pointing to Chinese espionage as a major threat to national security.

In other words, the threat of peaceful evolution from the United States is now being counterpoised with the threat of Chinese subversion.

Vietnam’s decision to publicize the espionage trial, coupled with the release of several dissidents in recent months, are straws in the wind of a possible change in Vietnam-United States relations.

President Truong Tan Sang recently stated in a media interview that China’s construction of artificial islands was illegal under international law and endangered maritime security. Sang’s interview was given to the Associated Press in New York while he was attending the annual meeting of the United Nations General Assembly.

Sang’s remarks were directed at both international and domestic audiences. Sang’s remarks in New York may be viewed as preparing the grounds for deepening relations with the United States. At the same time, his remarks may be viewed as burnishing his national security credentials domestically.

It should be recalled that Sang visited Washington in mid-2013 and met with President Barack Obama in the White House. After their talks the two leaders announced their agreement on a comprehensive partnership.

Vietnamese leaders who advocate deepening ties with the United States need some indication that Vietnam’s actions will be reciprocated to win over their domestic critics. That is why Sang called for an end to all U.S. restrictions on the sale of lethal weapons to Vietnam in his New York interview. Sang also repeated affirmations he made in Washington two years ago that Vietnam would engage the United States on human rights.

China’s construction of artificial islands in the South China Sea, complete with infrastructure to support a Chinese naval and military air presence, is a major driver behind those pushing for a deeper relationship with the United States.

Vietnam is expected to host official visits by President *Xi Jinping *and President *Barack Obama* in October and November. Given the present leadership in-fighting in Hanoi each of these visits may be viewed as separate auditions for Vietnam’s future orientation.


Vietnam Is Changing… And So Is the Balance of Power in Asia | The Diplomat


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## Viet

Vietnam made mobile VHF Early Warning Radar
*VRS-M2D *

the specs are said to be derived from P18, developed and operated by the former USSR.
P-18 radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Viet

Vietnam made antiship missile KCT-15. a variant of russian developed Kh35-E.

Kh-35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Aqsuperman

a battery of 2 2S3 on manouver


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## Viet

_the Russians are ready to arm Vietnam surface warships with the most powerful antiship missiles on the planet: Club-S: VLS, range 300km, speed subsonic en route to target, accelerating to Mach 3 on final approach, flying as low as 5-10 m over the water surface, making enemy radars nearly impossible to detect, inertial guidance plus terminal Active radar homing, conventional warhead._

the subnonic cruise missile, a land attack variant can target enemy installations such as airfields and seaports.

_nice!_



*Russia ready to supply Club-class missiles for Vietnam-bound frigates*
10:20 October 6, 2015 Alexander Korablinov, RBTH




The Gepard [Cheetan] frigate seen at Zelenodolsk shipyard in Tatarstan. Source: TASS/ Yegor Aleyev

Russia is ready to equip the Gepard-class 3.9 frigates for Vietnam with Club-class cruise missile systems, Sergei Rudenko_, _director of Zelenodolsk shipbuilding plant said, according to Sputnik News.

*"If the Vietnamese partners want to install Club missiles (on the frigates), we are ready to provide them with these weapons,"* Rudenko was cited by the news agency as saying.

Russia is due to deliver two Project 11661 or Gepard-class frigates to Vietnam in 2016. These frigates are equipped with Russian Uran anti-ship missiles, according to the report. Vietnam is likely to ask for Club missiles, which can be used to hit both surface and ground targets.


- Russia ready to supply Club-class missiles for Vietnam-bound frigates | Russia Beyond The Headlines)

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## Aqsuperman

well lets hope that this is more than a normal visit and joint-training program


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## Viet

*Decisive Moment for Vietnam as Trans-Pacific Partnership is Agreed*





Vietnam Right Now , News Analysis, Staff, Posted: Oct 07, 2015


*It’s the largest regional trade pact ever agreed* – and according to some economists, Vietnam could emerge as the biggest winner.

After five years of secret negotiations, and some tense 11th hour brinkmanship at the final session in Atlanta, twelve countries finally signed up to the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

The reduction in tariffs would give Vietnamese exporters much freer access to the giant markets of the United States and Japan, and spur a substantial increase in economic growth.

Pro-democracy activists also hope the pact will tie Vietnam much closer to the United States, and make it more responsive to criticism over human rights abuses and restrictions on the rights of workers.

Vietnam’s inclusion can also be seen as a major rebuff to China, given the pact’s expected role as a bulwark against Chinese economic and political influence in the region.

President Obama made clear the strategic goals of the pact when he welcomed the agreement.

“When more than 95 percent of our potential customers live outside our borders, we can’t let countries like China write the rules of the global economy,” he said. “We should write those rules, opening new markets to American products while setting high standards for protecting workers and preserving our environment.”

The TPP first needs to be ratified by the legislatures in the participating countries and that promises to be a hard fought and drawn out process – particularly in the United States.

There is opposition in the US from both sides of the political spectrum.

Some Democrats argue the TPP gives too much power to Wall Street and big corporations. Some Republicans will be loath to grant such a major foreign policy achievement to President Obama in the run up to a presidential election.

Vietnam’s critics in Congress can also be expected to argue against the inclusion of such a low wage, authoritarian country without further concessions on labour rights, religious freedom and government transparency.

That’s likely to put further pressure on Hanoi, which has already shown signs of mitigating its repression of government critics as the negotiations reached their climax.

Some leading dissidents have been released from prison since last year, although harassment and sometimes violent attacks have continued against bloggers and other activists.

Vietnamese officials were quick to welcome the agreement. The economic benefits of the deal are seen as so overwhelming that even Communist Party factions that traditionally favour China, and are wary of US influence, are thought to have come round.

“It will help increase Vietnam’s exports, foreign investment and an impetus for the country to change its development model,” said Dr. Vo Tri Thanh, deputy director of the Central Institute for Economic Management, in comments quoted by Tuoi Tre newspaper.

“The TPP comes just in time as Vietnam needs a motivation for changes that will lead to sustainable development.”

There are predictions that Vietnam’s apparel exports to the United States, currently worth $11 billion, could quadruple over the next decade.

The TPP’s rules on state owned enterprises could also challenge the state’s current dominance of the garment sector and give a boost to privatisation in other areas as well.

*However, Vietnam remains something of an anomaly amongst its new TPP partners.*

It is the poorest country, with some of the lowest labour costs, and with a communist government that remains at odds with the values and principles of the driving force behind the TPP, the United States.

Some analysts have pointed out that Vietnam reneged on some of its commitments towards liberalisation after joining the World Trade Organisation a decade ago.

They argue that this time it can expect closer monitoring on the commitments it makes as it will be a more direct trading partner with the US.

The hope of some reformers is that the deal will mark a decisive step as Vietnam seeks to align itself – politically, economically and strategically – more closely to the United States, and further from the ever less welcome embrace of China.


http://newamericamedia.org/2015/10/...am-as-trans-pacific-partnership-is-agreed.php


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## Viet

On a exercise, technicians seen loading unguided rockets onto a fighter helicopter.


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## Viet

Preparing SU-30 bombers for a mission

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## Viet

Pentagon, September 27 to October 3
Vietnam, US begin 6th Defence Policy Dialogue talking on security situation.






*



*
_Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and US Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence Amy Searight_


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## Aqsuperman

well...........great picture right ? :v


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> well...........great picture right ? :v


nice indeed. but since when does the VPA have female tank infantry?


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## Aqsuperman

your guess is as good as mine :v but probably just another visitor .........so i focus on the AT3 instead :v


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> your guess is as good as mine :v but probably just another visitor .........so i focus on the AT3 instead :v


ha ha ha...
changing topic. I have seen this weapon here and there. it is a new Vietnam made gun. do you know the specs? I assume it is a new RPG.


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## Viet

this one is nice: Test firing Vietnam made and upgraded rocket artillery *BM-21M-1*, 40 x 122mm.


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## Viet

Vietnam Fighter Jet carrying air to surface missile Kh-29.

Kh-29 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_The Kh-29 is intended for primary use against larger battlefield targets and infrastructure such as industrial buildings, depots and bridges, but can also be used against ships up to 10,000 tonnes, hardened aircraft shelters and concrete runways._

*



*

*



*

*



*

*



*

*



*


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## Viet

Vietnam made new anti tank gun, RPG. not sure, nor info, if they are capable to destroy chinese heavy armored battle tanks, type 99 and the likes. maybe yes, maybe no.

*SCT-29*





*DCT-7*


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## T-55

Lieutenant Nguyen Van Bay Air Force Democratic Republic of Vietnam is about air combat with the Americans; ~ 1969, the year the Van Bay downed 7 US aircraft




*** - 477768


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## Viet

Hanoi, September 30

Sen. Lieut. Gen. Truong Quoc Khanh receives Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Vladimir Nikolaevich Drozzov, looking for ways to increase Vietnam military capability.






How about asking the russians for long range cruise missile Kalibr NK (range 1,500km), here seen as the russian frigate Grad Sviyazhsk firing a cruise missile on IS position in Syria.


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## Aqsuperman

well i think that might be a variant of RPO thermobaric rocket launcher , the Shmel-M to be precise , considering our tradition of producing weapon based on existing design............but if we can see the back of the launcher then we can identify it easier 

A police shot gun , probably a Remington 870 ............wonder our army got anything like a Saiga ? :v


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> Hanoi, September 30
> 
> Sen. Lieut. Gen. Truong Quoc Khanh receives Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Vladimir Nikolaevich Drozzov, looking for ways to increase Vietnam military capability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about asking the russians for long range cruise missile Kalibr NK (range 1,500km), here seen as the russian frigate Grad Sviyazhsk firing a cruise missile on IS position in Syria.



Export of missiles with combat range bigger then 300km are forbidden by international law.
Our domestic Kalibr-NK has maximal range 2.600km.

By the way, Vietnamese Navy already operating export version of Kalibr-NK missiles on their submarines. It's called "Club-S".

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## Viet

Barmaley, you mean the Missile Technology Control Regime and the Hague Code of Conduct against Ballistic Missiles, the treaties which are signed by Russia. well, I don´t mean we buy ready to use long range cruise and balistic missiles, but need technology to enable us producing them at home. anyway, you are right, the *club-s* onboard of our Kilo subs is a proper toy for our enemy warships in the SC Sea in case of confrontation.

Russia | Country Profiles | NTI


Changing topic



September 27, Marine Shipyard (Poland)

Departing for Vietnam, the first mariners on the Naval Training Sailship *Lê Quý Đôn*, at the high sea, the ship is heading to the Nha-Trang seaport. the journey will take about a month.


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## Aqsuperman

well.........i guess as long as it can shoot then we will keep it :v


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## Viet

Sea Platforms
*Vietnam inducts fifth, sixth Tarantul V corvettes into 2nd Regional *
*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
30 September 2015
*Key Points*

The Vietnamese navy has commissioned its fifth and sixth Tarantul V missile corvettes
The vessels will be deployed to bolster Vietnam's presence near disputed areas of the South China Sea
The People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy has commissioned its fifth and sixth Project 1241.8 Tarantul V-class guided-missile corvettes, the _People's Army Newspaper_ reported on 25 September.






Vietnam's fifth and sixth Tarantul V-class vessels, HQ 379 and HQ 380, during their commissioning ceremony on 24 September. (People's Army Newspaper)


The ships (pennant numbers HQ 379 and HQ 380) were understood to have been inducted into the PAVN Navy's 2nd Regional Command in a ceremony on 24 September. The command is responsible for Vietnam's south-central region, off the coast of Binh Thuan Province to Bac Lieu Province, according to _IHS Jane's World Navies_ .


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## Viet

Saigon, October 19-26
*21st World Military Taekwondo Championship*






_The championship attracts 30 delegations from countries and territories around the world._





_The performance of the honorary delegation from the Vietnamese People’s Army_





_General Phung Quang Thanh and high-ranking leaders from Vietnamese People’s Army and other countries attended the opening ceremony._







_The host Vietnam has prepared thoroughly for the championship._






_The performance of a Vietnamese female soldier_







_A movement in the match between two athletes, from Tunisia and Iran, in the antagonistic competition of below 58 kilograms._





_A Vietnamese female fighter is encouraged by her mother before the competition._





_A match between two athletes, from Venezuela and Brazil._


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## Viet

Vietnam Tourism Ambassador, the beauty *Ly Nha Ky*, with the officials and reporters of the People's Army Newspaper.







*Military Insurance Corp. *(MIC) donates money to the troops stationing on islands in the SC Sea.






the PM visits the army run Telecom Group *Viettel*, with revenue reaching $10b last year, employing 85,000 people.






SU-30 Fighter Jets preparing for a *live-fire exercise *in the military province of Thanh Hoa.







Vietnam made multi-purpose *Bofors 40 mm gun*.















old footage of the naval gun

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## Aqsuperman

Captured M79 is so numerous that it become a standard issued among platoon fire support weapon of the VPA


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> well.........i guess as long as it can shoot then we will keep it :v


Vietnam war area stuffs. I believe those guns are stored for reverse engineering.

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## Viet

we are now very close than ever to become the first country in SE Asia that operates nuclear power plants. nearly all preparations are done. that is not saying we will start developing nuclear weapons. in either case, that is more a political decision than a technical one.



Last update 19:22 | 14/10/2015

*US wants to assist Vietnam in civil nuclear projects*

_The US is willing to help Vietnam in its nuclear energy programme, said Thomas Countryman, Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation. 




A facility at the nuclear reactor in Da Lat city, the Central Highlands province of Lam Dong. 


Vietnam has gone in the right direction, gearing up *nuclear engineers* and experts to operate facilities, said Countryman, who spoke to local press in Hanoi on October 13. The country has also succeeded in setting up agencies to make regulations on nuclear power. 

His office and the US Department of Energy have helped Vietnam prepare for challenges it will face when it starts producing electricity through nuclear energy, Countryman said. 

Vietnam needed nuclear experts who were able to operate the most advanced technologies, he stressed, noting that the US, the International Atomic Energy Agency and other partners would continue to assist Vietnam regardless of whether or not the country bought US technology. 

Countryman underlined strides seen in Vietnam–US relations since their leaders lifted their ties to a comprehensive partnership in 2013. The countries cooperate in more than 100 fields – the most notable being the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement, negotiations on which were concluded on October 5. _






_US Assistant Secretary of State Thomas M. Countryman_

_*Vietnam and the US inked a civil nuclear cooperation agreement in 2014*. Countryman’s current visit to the Southeast Asian nation was to discuss Vietnam’s wish to become the first ASEAN country to make electricity through nuclear energy, he said. 

Answering reporters’ questions on the connection between the TPP and energy, Countryman said they have an indirect link. Energy use would increase if Vietnam succeeded in fostering its economic growth through the trade pact. Meanwhile, nuclear energy did not emit carbon and it would help ensure the realisation of commitments to climate change prevention. 

During his stay in Vietnam, the official had working sessions with local agencies to discuss political and maritime security, along with Vietnam’s improvement of its regulations and capacity in controlling traded goods.-VNA_


_US wants to assist Vietnam in civil nuclear projects - News VietNamNet_

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> I believe those guns are stored for reverse engineering.


..........ah i dont think we are going to have too much use for M1 Garrand and Browning M1919 thouh......just stock them for "difficult" time :v Some of the Ar 15 are going to be upgrade to M18

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> we are now very close than ever to become the first country in SE Asia that operates nuclear power plants. nearly all preparations are done. that is not saying we will start developing nuclear weapons. in either case, that is more a political decision than a technical one.
> 
> 
> 
> Last update 19:22 | 14/10/2015
> 
> *US wants to assist Vietnam in civil nuclear projects*
> 
> _The US is willing to help Vietnam in its nuclear energy programme, said Thomas Countryman, Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A facility at the nuclear reactor in Da Lat city, the Central Highlands province of Lam Dong.
> 
> 
> Vietnam has gone in the right direction, gearing up *nuclear engineers* and experts to operate facilities, said Countryman, who spoke to local press in Hanoi on October 13. The country has also succeeded in setting up agencies to make regulations on nuclear power.
> 
> His office and the US Department of Energy have helped Vietnam prepare for challenges it will face when it starts producing electricity through nuclear energy, Countryman said.
> 
> Vietnam needed nuclear experts who were able to operate the most advanced technologies, he stressed, noting that the US, the International Atomic Energy Agency and other partners would continue to assist Vietnam regardless of whether or not the country bought US technology.
> 
> Countryman underlined strides seen in Vietnam–US relations since their leaders lifted their ties to a comprehensive partnership in 2013. The countries cooperate in more than 100 fields – the most notable being the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement, negotiations on which were concluded on October 5. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _US Assistant Secretary of State Thomas M. Countryman_
> 
> _*Vietnam and the US inked a civil nuclear cooperation agreement in 2014*. Countryman’s current visit to the Southeast Asian nation was to discuss Vietnam’s wish to become the first ASEAN country to make electricity through nuclear energy, he said.
> 
> Answering reporters’ questions on the connection between the TPP and energy, Countryman said they have an indirect link. Energy use would increase if Vietnam succeeded in fostering its economic growth through the trade pact. Meanwhile, nuclear energy did not emit carbon and it would help ensure the realisation of commitments to climate change prevention.
> 
> During his stay in Vietnam, the official had working sessions with local agencies to discuss political and maritime security, along with Vietnam’s improvement of its regulations and capacity in controlling traded goods.-VNA_
> 
> 
> _US wants to assist Vietnam in civil nuclear projects - News VietNamNet_

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## Viet

40 years ago. With the surrender of the South Vietnamese government in April 30, 1975, ends one of the most severe wars on Vietnamese soil: the US-Vietnam war. the conflict involved not only the troops of North and Southern Vietnamese armies and US Armed Forces, but thousands of soldiers from foreign countries including Australians, New Zealanders, South Koreans, Thais, and Philippinos.

Every country remembers the war as it is, how it sees it, and how its tradition and cultures reflect the history. good or bad. I don´t comment. just post here. For America, it was the longest conflict in her history, and the one that ended with a defeat. the places where the Americans remembered the war and their fallen soldiers reflect their psyche, trying to overcome the "Vietnam trauma". the National Vietnam War Museum in Texas. in the next post I will write about the Vietnam War Museum in Vietnam.







Home | The National Vietnam War Museum


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## Viet

meditation garden






rock creek trail





indoor




















entrance


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## Aqsuperman

beside Rpg-29 , with this round , RPG-7 may stand a chance against new generation tank


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> beside Rpg-29 , with this round , RPG-7 may stand a chance against new generation tank


that looks like a RPG-7VR Tandem HEAT, capable to pierce, destroy light and medium armored vehicles. do you know is it made in Vietnam? and if it is able to destroy chinese 99 tanks? maybe at close distance? I believe @Carlosa once posted results of RPG in firing tests and on battlefields like Syria and Israel.


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## Viet

Vietnam War Museum (Saigon)

I don´t want here to post horrofic reports, pictures and scenes during the Vietnam war, just some images of the museum, to get an impression how it is, the most terrible war on Vietnamese soil, causing the most casualties among civilians, most destructions to the infrastructures. just military hardware. a war no matter where it happens, which party conducts it, kills almost of humanity. During the WW 2, when the Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces) invaded the USSR, the soldiers were ordered to merciless kill the entire population when they met, because the USSR or slavic people were considered as Untermensch (subhuman). when the Red Army conquered Berlin at the final phase of the war, as revenge the soldiers raped endless german women, forcing many of the women committing suicide. because of shame.

when the Vietnam war was over, not only 60,000 US soldiers lost their lives in Vietnam, but 150,000 former US soldiers committed suicide when they returned home, finding themselves guilty what they saw and did, hopelessly to find internal peace, ending their lives with the guns, which once were used against the Vietcong.

War Remnants Museum


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## Aqsuperman

Technically on paper , it should be possible to penetrate Type 96 ERA and armor within reasonable range (around 50-75m in a regular conscript hand) In practice it also penetrate M1 Abrams both American verison and export. About the license production , i think that since we got the Rpg-29 as SCT-29 , this round have a good chance too

On the side way , 130mm brass case , with a change in powder charge we can use this in variety of range and attack angle


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## Viet

Diesel attack submarines (Kilo class) docked at the deep sea port Cam-Ranh. recently, SSTC company (St.Petersburg, Russia) announced will establish a shipbuilding and repair facility at the strategic port.

the base will become bigger in the times to come, hosting more warships and aircraft.


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## Viet

onboard of Training Sailship *Lê Quý Đôn.*
a long journey half the globe from Poland to Vietnam.























*



*







*



*

*



*


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## Viet

onboard of the Sailship, young cadets of Vietnam and Poland Navies and ship crews.































Vietnamese embassy staff in Poland


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## Viet

*Vietnam Between China and the United States: The Next Balancing Test Beckons*
Upcoming visits next month by US and Chinese leaders will test Hanoi’s balancing skills.

By Ngo Di Lan
October 16, 2015








Once again, Vietnam’s diplomatic balancing skills will be put to the test this November when Vietnamese leaders are expected to host Chinese President Xi Jinping and U.S. President Barack Obama within days of each other. This will be Obama’s very first trip to Vietnam, while Xi’s trip will also be the first of any Chinese president since 2005. Since Vietnam has been committed to maintaining cordial relations with both powers even against the backdrop of the increasingly tense situation surrounding territorial disputes in the South China Sea (SCS), this November will prove to be a delicate and defining moment for Vietnamese great-power management.

U.S-Vietnam ties have been warming considerably in the past several years, with multiple high-level visits of leaders from both countries culminating in General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong’s unprecedented visit to the United States this July. The result was the historic U.S-Vietnam Joint Vision Statement, which provides a crucial framework within which U.S-Vietnam relations could continue to develop in the longer term. Within this context, Obama’s trip to Hanoi would only consolidate and deepen these ties further.

However, obviously this time Obama will not be in Hanoi to push for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) since the negotiating parties had already reached an agreement and the Vietnamese National Assembly would almost definitely ratify the TPP agreement. At a moment when China is rapidly building up artificial islands in the SCS while the U.S. has announced plans for maritime patrols within the territorial waters of these islands, it seems certain that China and the SCS territorial disputes will feature prominently the talks in Hanoi.

Despite much optimism, the pro-U.S. camp in Hanoi would probably be disappointed as it is highly improbable that Obama’s visit would result in any “game-changing” agreements. It would be even more unrealistic to expect an “alliance” of some sort between Hanoi and Washington formed during this trip, even amidst China’s increasingly assertive efforts to create a _fait accompli _in the SCS. After all, it is not clear whether such an overt alliance is in the interest of both the United States and Vietnam as it would surely aggravate China and thus destabilize the situation further. Furthermore, the United States seems to be reluctant to formally commit itself to an alliance with any country that it deems “politically uncontrollable,” having recently rejected a mutual defense treaty proposal from Gulf States. Vietnam certainly does not fall into the category of countries within the American “sphere of influence.”

From Hanoi’s perspective, “leaning to one side” risks eliminating diplomatic flexibility. Besides, in any case, an alliance is probably not an ironclad guarantee of security vis-à-vis China, as Vietnam’s previous alliance with the Soviet Union had shown. Nevertheless, it is reasonable to expect that Obama’s trip would still boost defense ties between two countries considerably, perhaps even leading to a further lifting of the ban on lethal weapons on Vietnam that has already been eased. Moreover, Obama could use the occasion to garner diplomatic support for his more assertive patrolling scheme while moving Vietnam further away from China’s orbit. If at least some of these outcomes do materialize, the trip would at least bolster U.S position in Asia while giving Hanoi a stronger hand to drive a harder bargain vis-à-vis Beijing.

Unlike Obama’s much expected trip to Vietnam, Xi’s trip comes at a troubling time in Vietnam-China relations. Relations have soured somewhat in recent years as China became much more aggressive in asserting its control over the islands in the SCS. In the past few years, Xi has probably done more to revise the status quo in the SCS than his predecessors in two decades. Most notoriously, in May 2014, China deployed the HYSY-981 oil rig within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the face of vigorous protest from both the Vietnamese government and the Vietnamese people.

While China unilaterally withdrew the oil rig after two months, the diplomatic crisis did much to undermine strategic trust between two governments and provoked a serious internal debate within elite circles in Hanoi. Since then, China has only accelerated its land reclamation efforts, with airstrips being spotted on some islands that could be used to eventually declare and/or enforce an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) over the entire SCS sometime in the near future. These moves have convinced Vietnam that China is not sincerely committed to agreements it has already signed such as the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

Given all this, it seems that Xi will be travelling to Hanoi with a near-impossible mission: to somehow put its smaller neighbor back in line and “reset” relations with Vietnam. Chinese leaders know full well that Vietnam will not simply turn into Japan or the Philippines overnight. But over the long term, given what is unfolding in the SCS, no one can predict how close Vietnam would align with the U.S camp. And it is difficult to see how any Chinese president at this point can seriously convince Hanoi that China is merely protecting its legitimate interests in the SCS and that Hanoi should play along with Beijing. Thus no one should expect any “U-turn” in Vietnamese policy toward China after Xi’s trip.

Nevertheless, in the short term, Xi’s trip could still repair China-Vietnam ties to some extent and perhaps divert Vietnamese attention away from the current territorial dispute to focus on opportunities for cooperation between the two countries. In that vein, it would not come as a surprise if Beijing provides some economic deals and favorable loans to Hanoi during Xi’s trip. After all, such economic incentives are always welcomed and would encourage Vietnam to at least refrain from moving closer toward the United States in the short term and continue its current “tightrope walking” strategy.

So far, Vietnam has been committed to walking a diplomatic tightrope between the two superpowers, delicately balancing one against another to reap the benefits while avoiding being trapped into a diplomatic _cul-de-sac. _If all goes well this November, “tightrope walking” will most likely consolidate as Vietnam’s preferred grand strategy for the foreseeable future, which would leave room for more creative policy options. In the longer term, this strategy could lay the foundation for a regional order around multilateral institutions and great powers bargains, which may offer a more promising future for small and medium powers in the region.

_Ngo Di Lan is a PhD candidate in Politics at Brandeis University, where he focuses on U.S foreign policy and U.S-China relations. He is also a research associate at the Center for International Studies (SCIS) at the University of Social Sciences and Humanities in Ho Chi Minh City._

Vietnam Between China and the United States: The Next Balancing Test Beckons | The Diplomat


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## Aqsuperman

SA 2 and AAA on the way to maintaince facilities


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Technically on paper , it should be possible to penetrate *Type 96 ERA *and armor within reasonable range (around 50-75m in a regular conscript hand) In practice it also penetrate M1 Abrams both American verison and export. About the license production , i think that since we got the Rpg-29 as SCT-29 , this round have a good chance too


if true, that is not too bad.


Aqsuperman said:


> On the side way , 130mm brass case , with a change in powder charge we can use this in variety of range and attack angle


hard job. looks like a scene in the WW 1 and 2. where is the attilery position? I assume either close to chinese or cambodian border, isn´t it? though the situation on the western front is peaceful. more or less, unless some khmer nationalists intentionally start causing tensions.


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## Viet

Two events, Laos and Cambodia. the two immediate and strategic important neighbors. on the same day. seeking ways to increase cooperations in defence and economy ties. coincidence or not.

October 19, 2015.
Receiving Lieutenant General Suvon Luongbunmi, Chief of the General Staff of the Lao People’s Army.







Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen (L) greets Senior Lt. General Nguyen Chi Vinh in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, Oct. 19, 2015. Cambodia and Vietnam held the first Defense Policy Dialogue.


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## Aqsuperman

Well that is classifield :0........but i assume its on some firing range . About our Southwest front , peace would be desired but shall the situaition turn out to be worse , our 4th Corp will response within the quickest time possible . 

For now this is the only T-72 verison in Vietnam service.......There maybe "more" :v


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## cnleio

Inside Vietnam "Kilo" sub











Aqsuperman said:


> For now this is the only T-72 verison in Vietnam service.......There maybe "more" :v


T-72 has 6x load wheels, that baby only 5x ... more like T-54/55 chassis.


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## Aqsuperman

Sorry my bad . This is the ones

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## Viet

probably already posted, but anyway here again with clearer images. Domestic made landing ship, Ro ro 5612 class.












in an interview, Lieutenant-General Le Huy Vinh, commander of the Airforce, reveals Vietnam soon deploying SPYDER, a Israeli made short and medium surface to air missiles system.












starting Q4 2015, Russian aerospace company OPK delivers automatic take-off and landing systems to Vietnam SU-30 bombers, RSBN-4NM & PRMG-76UM. Enabling the bombers to conduct warfare days and nights in all weather conditions.

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## Aqsuperman

Night vision goggles have been produced and equipped on a vast array of infantry and crew served weapon , also been put on the NSV on the M113


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## Aqsuperman

one of a few weapon that Vietnam export , so far mostly non-lethal though


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> one of a few weapon that Vietnam export , so far mostly non-lethal though


it stands "police department" E112-H56. but what is it?







changing topic

more a economic news, but...as the army owns the company. Have I missed anything, or has the tension in the SC Sea reduced significantly?

instead of investing into new warships and submarines, the military run Telecom Company Viettel wants to pour incredible $1 billion into Tanzania´s 3G mobile phone market. No risk no fun, say the people of Viettel obviously. with $10 billion revenue and $1.4 billion pre-tax profit at last year 2014, the company wants further expansion, becoming a major player on the market.

A company owned by Vietnam’s military will put $1 billion into Tanzania’s mobile market - Quartz





Viettel vice president Lê Đăng Dũng in talk with Jakaya Kikwete, the president of Tanzania.





where is Tanzania? I believe many Vietnamese have never heard of the country.


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## Viet

3 October 2015
*Japan defence minister to visit Vietnam over South China Sea dispute*




Vietnam protests Chinese lighthouse projects on disputed isles - © Ritchie B. Tongo / Pool, EPA

Tokyo (dpa) - Japan's Defence Minister Gen Nakatani will travel to Vietnam in early November to discuss China's territorial claims in disputed parts of the South China Sea, Japanese media reported Friday.

Nakatani's talks with counterpart Phung Quang Thanh will come amid rising tensions in the region after the United States told South-East Asian countries that it would deploy warships to what China claims as its territorial waters in disputed areas of the sea, Kyodo News agency reported, citing Japanese diplomatic sources.

During the meeting, *Nakatani is also expected to explain Japan's laws enacted in late September that will expand the role of the military abroad*, Kyodo said.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea. Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines all have competing claims with China over the key shipping lane and potentially resource-rich area.

The Japanese minister is also likely to discuss his country's support for Vietnam's efforts to build up its own military capacity. During his visit, he is thought likely to stop by a naval base in Cam Ranh Bay in central Vietnam, which faces the South China Sea.

Nakatani has expressed interest in attending a meeting of defence chiefs from the 10-member Association of South-East Asian Nations plus Australia, China, India, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Russia and the United States, to be held November 3 to 5 in Malaysia.

The Vietnam visit would follow that meeting, the report said.

dpa news - Japan defence minister to visit Vietnam over South China Sea dispute


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## Viet

*President Park should publicly apologize for South Korea's sexual violence in Vietnam*
By  Norm Coleman

Published October 13, 2015
FoxNews.com





_South Korean President Park Geun-hye, center, gives a salute during the 67th Armed Forces Day at Gyeryongdae, South Korea's main compound in Gyeryong City, South Korea, Oct. 1, 2015. (Kim Hee-chul/Pool Photo via AP) _

This week’s state visit by South Korean President Park Geun-hye presents an opportunity to assess the strength of the alliance between our two countries. At the same time, it presents an obligation to challenge our ally when its behavior does not fully align with American values.

The United States as a country has a strong legacy of embracing mistakes and atoning for them. President Park should embrace this uniquely American value and publicly apologize to the thousands of Vietnamese women who were forcibly raped by troops under her father’s command during the Vietnam War.

Forty years ago, *Park Chung-hee *– the current president’s father and a former general, led over *320,000 of his U.S.-allied troops into the War in Vietnam*. Throughout the war, South Korean soldiers violently raped and sexually assaulted thousands of young women, some as young as 13 and 14 years of age. Many of these women bore children as a result of these assaults. Today, between 5,000 and 30,000 children of mixed Korean-Vietnamese ancestry, called the “Lai Dai Han,” live at the margins of Vietnamese society.

When my good friend Senator John McCain recounts the horrors he survived during his captivity in Vietnam, he often talks about the deep emotional and physical scars war leaves on the lives of those impacted by it. What happened to these women, so many of whom lost their innocence at the hands of South Korean soldiers, is one of the great untold tragedies of the Vietnam War.

It’s time to lift the veil of silence and allow those violated women – only 800 of whom are estimated to be alive today – to share their stories.

Since my time as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, I have always fought and stood up for those who have been victims of systemic violence around the world. These women, the mothers of the Lai Dai Han, deserve to have the world bear witness to their testimonies. After decades of raising their children and grandchildren in the face of tremendous adversity, they deserve to be heard.

As a father, I can only imagine the heartache and pain these poor young women and their families had to endure. We cannot erase the memory of what happened -- but an acknowledgement by the South Korean government of their suffering and an apology for the sexual violence perpetrated by their troops, would be a welcome step in easing the pain.

President Park is one of the most powerful women in the world. Certainly, it is within her power to extend a full and public apology for the crimes committed by her father’s soldiers against so many innocent women. *Failing to make such an unequivocal apology would only undermine President Park’s moral authority as she presses Japan to apologize for the sexual violence perpetrated against South Korean “comfort women” during World War II.*

Earlier this week, I added my name to a petition started by Nguyen Thi Bach Tuyet on Change.org calling on President Park to apologize to the victims of South Korea’s systemic sexual violence in Vietnam.

Ms. Nguyen has led a tragic life. Both she and her mother were raped and impregnated by South Korean soldiers. After her mother passed away, Ms. Nguyen raised her mother’s son alongside her own family, fled an abusive husband, and started a new life in rural Vietnam. Her life has not been easy, but the decision to apologize to her should be.

On Thursday, I am honored to speak on behalf of Ms. Nguyen and the thousands of women like her during an event hosted by Voices of Vietnam at the National Press Club. This event is the best chance yet to bring the world’s attention to what happened to these women and their families.

It’s time to lift the veil of silence and allow those violated women – only 800 of whom are estimated to be alive today – to share their stories.

The United States has a great history of looking back in history, bearing witness to our mistakes, and atoning for what happened. It is precisely this that has made our country a beacon of hope and freedom around the world.

President Park should take advantage of the opportunity she has been presented to acknowledge the suffering of these innocent women, make a full apology for what happened, and to begin to work to make it right.

_Republican Norm Coleman represented Minnesota in the U.S. Senate from 2003-2009. During his six years in the Senate, he served on the Foreign Relations Committee as Chair of the Western Hemisphere and ranking member of the Near East subcommittees. Senator Coleman currently serves as a board member of the National Endowment for Democracy, and on the Advisory Council for the U.S. Global Leadership Coalition._


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## Viet

*Vietnam Nuclear Ambition*

as some chinese posters here threaten Vietnam with nuclear holocaust, true or not, joke or not, I post here as response the current nuclear situation, analyse and future prospect.

(1) does Vietnam have uranium deposit?
yes, the new descovered mine located in the province of Quảng Nam has a capacity of 100,000-130,000 tons a year.

Sắp khai thác uranium tại Quảng Nam | Khoa Học - KhoaHoc.tv

(2) the government has a very ambitious nuclear program, peaceful, with the domestic market reaching $50 billion (says US Secretary of State John Kerry) or $100 billion (US Under Secretary Rose Gottemoeller).

The U.S.-Vietnam Nuclear Deal | National Review Online

(3) under the US-Vietnam 123 nuclear agreement, Vietnam can either buy nuclear fuels on international market, or enrich domestically. Yes, it is interesting to note the US allow Vietnam, but forbid many others from enrichment.

Senate Panel OKs Vietnam 123 Agreement With 30-Year Limit - Nuclear Energy Institute

(4) Under which circumstances will Vietnam likely develop, acquire, deploy nuclear weapons?

Nuclear Power in Vietnam: International Responses and Future Prospects - American Academy of Arts & Sciences
_
In the context of these rising tensions, the possibility that Vietnam’s leaders could be tempted to keep the nuclear option open should not be completely discounted, despite the country’s historic record of forgoing the development of WMD capabilities. It is thought-provoking to combine what we know about Vietnam’s long-term strategic goals with what we know about proliferation patterns, to foresee scenarios in which developing a nuclear-weapons capability could become a much more attractive option in the future, despite the constraints, including the backlash that could be expected from neighbors and partners.
The following events, none of which are far-fetched, and some of which could conceivably occur together, would likely create very powerful proliferation triggers in a country with an expanding nuclear infrastructure, even in a country with strong nonproliferation credentials:
_

_An escalation of maritime disputes in the East and South China Seas, with China becoming increasingly assertive;_
_The continued growth of a powerful groundswell of nationalistic anti-China sentiment in Vietnam;_
_Evidence that the asymmetric military relationship between China and Vietnam is rapidly widening, despite Vietnam’s efforts to expand its national defense capabilities; _
_Domestic unrest in Vietnam, sparked by VCP efforts to implement the major domestic reforms necessary to tackle massive endemic corruption and restructure the debt-laden public sector; _
_Strong indications that China and the United States are working toward a rapprochement, leading to a major decline in U.S. influence in East Asia (escalating U.S.-Russia tensions, if a long-term development, could make this more likely); _
_Suspicion that Japan and South Korea are developing indigenous nuclear weapons programs, amid entrenched nationalism directed against each other and against China; this trigger would be even stronger if nuclear breakout by Japan and/or South Korea was confirmed;_
_Persistent failure of the ADMM and ADMM Plus and other ASEAN institutions to address hard security challenges, and little hope that this will change; _
_The emergence of a pro-nuclear weapons lobby in Vietnam among political elites and the scientific community; and_
_Clear signals from one or more of Hanoi’s diplomatic partners that they would not oppose the development of Vietnamese nuclear latency or nuclear weapons, based on the calculation that a nuclear-capable Vietnam could form part of a broader Asian counterweight to China, especially in the context of declining U.S. power and influence._

(5) does Vietnam have experiences in nuclear power?
yes, more than 50 years. a massive nuclear program is under development. in total, Vietnam plans to build up to 10,000 megawatts of nuclear power capacity by 2030, with the first reactors to come on line in the next decade. Russian, Japanese firms will construct the first 4 reactors.

Vietnamese to take part in design of new nuclear reactor - News VietNamNet


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## Viet

(6) a nuclear device needs a delivery system. does Vietnam have or develop balistic or cruise missiles?
- R-17E (Scud B) range 300km, while some rumours say the range has extended to close 1,000km.







- P-5 Pyatyorka (Shadock) turbojet-powered cruise missile, range 550km.






- 3M54 Klub-S cruise missile, range 300km, onboard of the Kilo submarine fleet.





all of them are nuclear capable on paper. how about the future development?

- US$683 million Vietnam Space Center under construction. key topics: developing satellites and long range missiles.


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## Aqsuperman

a tear gas grenade , used for dispering crownd , quite effective though 
A Hungarian AMD 65 , used to be in limited service and seem withdrawn

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## cnleio

Aqsuperman said:


> a tear gas grenade , used for dispering crownd , quite effective though
> A Hungarian AMD 65 , used to be in limited service and seem withdrawn


@Aqsuperman Is that Israel Galil rifle mass production in Vietnam to replace AK, or still equip AK for VPA soldiers ? Any plan for next Army Rifle ?


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## Viet

Images inside some Military facilities...not the latest pictures but I don´t think everything has changed.


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## Aqsuperman

So far the primary assaunt rifle of the VPA is AK and it variants , but on the side there is is quite a number of Gali been manafactured and delivered to certain units , in the foreseeable future there wont be any large conversion due to the very large number of A on-hand K but after that ..........well that a tough question :v

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## cnleio

Aqsuperman said:


> So far the primary assaunt rifle of the VPA is AK and it variants , but on the side there is is quite a number of Gali been manafactured and delivered to certain units , in the foreseeable future there wont be any large conversion due to the very large number of A on-hand K but after that ..........well that a tough question :v


Gali just equip some units, why not to replace all AK rifles for VPA ? I heard the Israel IWI setup Gali rifle produce line in Vietnam, it should widely replace AK by Gali ACE 31/32 ... it seems Vietnam still didn't choose next rifle for VPA.

7.62mm Gali ACE 31/32


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## Aqsuperman

well there is 1 simple reason : we have a very very large number of AK variant left , both in-active and reserve , although the current Gali ACE can reuse certain things from AK ( mainly the magazine and ammunition ) Its seem that replace all of them by Gali at once will be counterproductive and expensive even when we already have a up-and-running production line . There is another problem , the muzzel velocity of Gali and AK have a considerble difference , result in a diffrent curve ballistic , which require re-trainng on troops . When the budget is currently spent on Airforce and Navy , the most likely solution (on my opinion of course :v ) is to slowly retired old AK variant then introduce and trained troops on the Gali 1 place at a time


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Gali just equip some units, why not to replace all AK rifles for VPA ? I heard the Israel IWI setup Gali rifle produce line in Vietnam, it should widely replace AK by Gali ACE 31/32 ... it seems Vietnam still didn't choose next rifle for VPA.
> 
> 7.62mm Gali ACE 31/32
> View attachment 267059
> View attachment 267060


the actual production capacity (z111 factory) is confidential, but you can assume the number would be some 50,000 rilfes a year. so that would take years until all army units have their galil rifles. unless we expand the production rate.

Production of Galil Rifles in Vietnam Has Begun | Israel Defense

galil ace 32






and if you are interested of what standard assual rifles Vietnam produces, here is the pic. in the third row: Galil 32 (left), 31 (right).

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> the actual production capacity (z111 factory) is confidential, but you can assume the number would be some 50,000 rilfes a year. so that would take years until all army units have their galil rifles. unless we expand the production rate.


Trust me, 50,000 rifles production (even more) per year is not any problem for a industrial country ... it's the basic capacity not a reasonable excuse, if VPA chose the Galil ACE 31/32 as next standard rifle for the Army i believe in 2x years we can see many ACE 31/32 serving in VPA, or must meet another issue here.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Trust me, 50,000 rifles production (even more) per year is not any problem for a* industrial countr*y ... it's the basic capacity not a reasonable excuse, if VPA chose the Galil ACE 31/32 as next standard rifle for the Army i believe in 2x years we can see many ACE 31/32 serving in VPA, or must meet another *issue *here.


we are not an industrial country. not yet. besides, what issue should be, in your opinion?


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## Viet

seen midst in the SC Sea, land reclamation with new buildings set up on vietnamese islands.


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> we are not an industrial country. not yet. besides, what issue should be, in your opinion?


As @Aqsuperman said, Money and the Budget is currently spent on Airforce and Navy, so Army need wait.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> As @Aqsuperman said, Money and the Budget is currently spent on Airforce and Navy, so Army need wait.


that´s true.

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## Aqsuperman

An S-75 , old as earth itself , :v the current in-use verison is Volga-M , developed in '95 , soon all of them will be replaced in favor of S-125TM

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## Viet

*Navy SEALs Give Back to Their Guide in Vietnam*

The Virginian-Pilot|Oct 23, 2015|by Mike Hixenbaugh






VIRGINIA BEACH -- Ten thousand dollars.

Spread out over four years.

It doesn't seem like much, especially by U.S. standards. But in a small village in rural Vietnam, the donation might change the future of an entire family -- and could help repay a 50-year-old debt. Nhu Nguyen didn't ask for the money. Her grandfather, Nguyen Hoang Minh, bled for it.

The former combat interpreter volunteered to fight alongside some of the first Navy SEALs in Vietnam, *guiding them on hundreds of secretive nighttime missions deep in enemy territory* -- work now enshrined in early SEAL lore.

But when the war ended, Minh didn't get to leave with the commandos. His association with "The Men With Green Faces," as the Viet Cong came to know them, would cost him.

Two years in a communist prison camp. Decades working in fields and doing odd jobs for little pay. No way to get ahead.

When his old SEAL teammates finally found him a few years ago, Minh was living in a tiny thatched hut with a leaky roof and a dirt floor, where he and his wife were raising their grandchildren.

The SEAL brotherhood chipped in to upgrade Minh's home. Later, they sent him money to cover medical bills. Feed his family. Fill the gas tank of his motorbike. They paid to bring him to Virginia Beach two years ago, fulfilling his dream to see America before he dies.

And now, this week, perhaps the most important contribution of all: The Navy SEAL Foundation has agreed to pay to send Nhu, his eldest granddaughter, to *National University in Vietnam*.

"It's a little outside of what we typically do," said Robin King, SEAL Foundation CEO. "But when someone as important as Minh needs support, we're willing to flex our mission and do what we can."

The $2,500 a year for tuition and fees isn't much for the nation's largest SEAL charity, foundation leaders acknowledge.

*But in Vietnam, the money could lift a family out of poverty* -- ensuring Minh's descendants won't have to struggle like he did, said Rick Woolard, the retired SEAL captain who has spearheaded efforts to help his old interpreter.

Woolard and two other veterans returned to Vietnam earlier this year to visit Minh and his family. There, they hatched the idea of sending his granddaughter to college.

"Minh is now in his mid-70s and in failing health," Woolard wrote in an email to SEAL Foundation leaders earlier this month. "Once he passes away, the family's prospects for escaping poverty are gloomy. The only hope on the horizon is Minh's granddaughter."

Nhu had to be a star student just to be accepted into the university, Woolard said. But without financial help, she wouldn't be able to go.

Minh's granddaughter wants to become a pharmacist.

Classes start next spring in Ho Chi Minh City.

*Related Topics*
NavyNavy SEALsVietnam War

Navy SEALs Give Back to Their Guide in Vietnam | Military.com


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## Aqsuperman

well.........look real enough :v


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## Viet

*Vietnam Buying Israeli Air Defense System*

*By: Jewish Press News Briefs 
Published:* October 26th, 2015




Rafael's SPYDER air defense systems
Photo Credit: Photo credit: Rafael

Vietnam has purchased Israeli Rafael’s SPYDER air defense systems, a surface-to-air missile system capable of launching the company’s Python-5 and Derby Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missiles, Defense Industry Daily reported Monday. The missiles have a range of between 12 and 30 miles. This truck-mounted system combines radar and optical tracking to guide a combination of short to medium-range air to air missiles as a versatile system adapted for a wider range of threats.

India was the SPYDER’s first customer, and the new systems are replacing replace India’s Russian-made OSA-AKM/SA-8 Gecko and ZRK-BD Strela-10M/ SA-13 Gopher SAM systems, according to the Times of India.

A typical SPYDER squadron consists of 1 Mobile Command and Control Unit, plus 4 Mobile Firing Units with their own built-in power supplies and missile sets of 4-8 missiles. It is designed for use against a wide variety of aerial targets such as aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles, cruise missiles and guided bombs.


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## pher

Viet said:


> *Vietnam Buying Israeli Air Defense System*
> 
> *By: Jewish Press News Briefs
> Published:* October 26th, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rafael's SPYDER air defense systems
> Photo Credit: Photo credit: Rafael
> 
> Vietnam has purchased Israeli Rafael’s SPYDER air defense systems, a surface-to-air missile system capable of launching the company’s Python-5 and Derby Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missiles, Defense Industry Daily reported Monday. The missiles have a range of between 12 and 30 miles. This truck-mounted system combines radar and optical tracking to guide a combination of short to medium-range air to air missiles as a versatile system adapted for a wider range of threats.
> 
> India was the SPYDER’s first customer, and the new systems are replacing replace India’s Russian-made OSA-AKM/SA-8 Gecko and ZRK-BD Strela-10M/ SA-13 Gopher SAM systems, according to the Times of India.
> 
> A typical SPYDER squadron consists of 1 Mobile Command and Control Unit, plus 4 Mobile Firing Units with their own built-in power supplies and missile sets of 4-8 missiles. It is designed for use against a wide variety of aerial targets such as aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles, cruise missiles and guided bombs.


following every step of your indian brother, this is the right way for vietnam to go!!! After all, you mon-khmer viets are relatives of indians in blood.


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## Viet

pher said:


> following every step of your indian brother, this is the right way for vietnam to go!!! After all, you *mon-khmer *viets are relatives of indians in blood.


mon-khmer? wrong and off-topic you fool.

what´s wrong to buy proven weapon system this? both the armies of Vietnam and India can cooperate and exchange information. win-win situation.

SPYDER, capable to intercept cruise missiles, becoming a part of Vietnam Missile Shield.


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## Viet

Exercise, launching an combined assault on an imaginary enemy postion.


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## Aqsuperman

Great , we have a genetics professor in a military thread . Tell me pher , are Chinese come from Africa ? 

3 self-produced 40mm grenades for M79


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## Viet

Vietnam-Australia Naval exercise

The Royal Australian Navy ship *HMAS Sirius*, a fleet replenishment vessel, 46,775 tons, 191.3 metres in length, top speed is 30.6 km/h (19.0 mph), range of 16,000 nautical miles, carrying a crew of 62 officers and sailors, will dock at the Danang Port on October 30 to begin a five-day visit.

Training exercises with the Zone 3 Naval High Command are planned.


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## cnleio

Aqsuperman said:


> well.........look real enough :v


tank balloon


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> tank balloon
> View attachment 267816


Made in China?


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## Viet

the US Destroyer Squadron 7, a part of US Pacific Fleet, is operating is under the command of Vietnamese-American Capt. H.B. Le. though he is not serving Vietnam Navy, as Southern Vietnamese, he is a well patriot, I believe. especially in this time of confrontation in the SC Sea. he is the man responsible for sending the US Naval destroyer USS Lassen passing the within 12 nm of chinese occupied islands. so not so far from the place, his hometown, from where he fled along with his parents to America in the last days of the Vietnam war.











_150827-N-ZB122-008 SATTAHIP, Thailand (August 27, 2015) Capt. H.B. Le (right), commodore, Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 7, shakes hands with Royal Thai Navy sailors at the opening ceremony of Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) Thailand 2015. Picture of US Navy.











_

_




















Capt. H. B. Le, commodore Destroyer Squadron 7, congratulates Machinist Mate (SW) Justin Chamberlain after he was meritoriously promoted to the rank of First Class Petty Officer through the Meritorious Advancement Program. US Navy picture.

_


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## Viet

Press Release
*True stories of life as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam*
The #1 Amazon bestseller 'Guts 'n' Gunships' is a must-read for a realistic, raw, and moving account of helicopter combat during the Vietnam Conflict.

*Posted:* 28 October 2015






In the summer of 1967, Mark Garrison had dropped out of college at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, Illinois, just before entering his third year. He had run out of money and had to work for a while. These were the days before the lottery and the draft soon came calling. In order to somewhat control his own future, he enlisted in the U.S. Army’s helicopter flight school program. Little did he know that this adventure would be the most profound experience of his life.

Garrison flew hundreds of missions for the 119th AHC, stationed in the Central Highlands at Camp Holloway in Pleiku, Vietnam. He was awarded twenty-five Air Medals, four campaign Bronze Stars, and The Distinguished Flying Cross among numerous other awards. His narrative takes you through the whole process, from basic training, flight school, flying combat in Vietnam, and his return to the United States. His description includes many incidents in combat flight, including being hit by rocket propelled grenades and being on fire in the air, over hundreds if not thousands of enemy troops. 

But this is not all. He elaborates on the daily lives, emotions, and nuances of the pilots and what they considered their mission to be.

True stories of life as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam | Latest press releases | PressGo | Journalism.co.uk


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> Made in China?


Yes, to cheat satellite ... 国产超逼真武器30米外看不出假
*



*


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## Aqsuperman

next in the series of the "look-real" :v


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Yes, to cheat satellite ... 国产超逼真武器30米外看不出假
> *
> View attachment 267962
> *


nice. but can they cheat spy satellite with infrared sensor?


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> nice. but can they cheat spy satellite with infrared sensor?


LOL ... maybe, there need a cheap heat source near the mockup.


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## Viet

Oct 29 2015 Havana (Cuba)

Cuba´s President Raul Castro Ruz welcomes General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army for a 4 day visit. General Ty will visit military bases of the Cuban Armed Forces. Cuba, a cold war ally, appears to lean to Vietnam not only for defence but economy since the United States loose embargo on the country.













Beijing, China on October 28th

a VPN delegation to the capital of China, attending a Vietnam-China border conference, seeking ways to improve border infrastructures, as well as conditions for customs clearance at border gates between the two countries.








Arlington (United States), October 25, 2015

Arlington Mayor Jeff Williams speaks at the dedication ceremony for the Vietnam War Memorial unveiled at Veterans Park in Arlington TX Sunday,


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## Aqsuperman

M-72 launcher , now use as a way to deliver incendary rocket


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## Aqsuperman

PSG-1 , SVD , Galatz and some modernize Mosin are all the sniper rifle currently employed by the VPA


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> *PSG-1* , SVD , Galatz and some modernize Mosin are all the sniper rifle currently employed by the VPA


nice sniper rifle. I like it.







changing topic

Interesting development: Japanese Media (Nikkei) reports during the upcoming visit of Japan defence minister Gen Nakatani to Vietnam, Japanese government seeks to negotiate sending for the first time ever warships for visits and exercises with Vietnam in the SC Sea, starting 2016. exciting times ahead. I think the chinese have no reason to complain. they are the one that seeks confrontation.








Regiment 202 on a exercise





the tank regiment 202 has a glorious and bloody history during the Vietnam war, one of most braven tank units of the North Vietnamese Army, engaging in many battles, here one of bloodiest battles of the war: the battle Quang-Tri of 1972.

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## Viet

Vietnam Airforce

Pilot training on high performace jet trainer *Aero L-39 Albatros*


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## Viet

* Vietnam Gives Noncommittal Response to US Patrol in S. China Sea *




USS Lassen (DDG 82) operates in international waters near the Chinese People's Liberation Army (Navy) Jianghu V-class frigate Dongguan (560) while on patrol in U.S. 7th Fleet at South China Sea, Sep 29, 2015.


Tra Mi
Last updated on: October 29, 2015 8:54 PM

Two days after the United States sailed a warship within the 12-nautical-mile zone of man-made islands in the hotly disputed waters of the South China Sea, Vietnam has given a noncommittal response to the incident.

While most nations in the region responded quickly to the event, Vietnam stayed silent until Thursday, when a foreign ministry spokesman in Hanoi was asked a question about the incident.

Without directly criticizing China or the U.S., spokesman Le Hai Binh told reporters that Vietnam respects the freedom of navigation and overflight in the East Sea consistent with relevant provisions of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea as well as its national laws.

However, others in Vietnam have called for their government to be supportive of the U.S. action.

Prominent social and political activist Pham Minh Hoang told VOA's Vietnamese service that Hanoi needs to find ways to reduce China's influence over the country.

"We need to find ways to put the Vietnamese government on high alert amid China’s expansion and influence. It’s time Hanoi needs to seek for allies like the U.S. to cope with China," he said. "It’s disappointing that they’re not taking the golden opportunity when the U.S. is challenging China’s sovereignty claims in the South China Sea to take a stronger stance against China to exit China’s orbit."

But historian Nguyen Nha said the time is not yet right for such a move.

"Vietnam can’t get away from China’s hands until it actually becomes a TPP member which helps open a new gate for Hanoi to develop economically and politically without China. This is really a big issue," he said. "Of course we want the Vietnamese government to take a tough stance against China, but Vietnam’s current situation is extremely difficult."

Vietnam, which is one of several countries that has competing maritime claims with China, has tried to maintain a delicate balance between complaining and trying to work with Beijing.

Last year, Beijing was sharply criticized by Vietnam when it placed an oil rig in disputed waters, leading to several small maritime confrontations and deadly rioting in mainland Vietnam.

Chinese President Xi Jinping is scheduled in Hanoi next week for a visit aimed at improving relations.

But last week, more than 100 Vietnamese activists wrote an open letter to government authorities urging them to rescind the invitation to Xi.

Social activist La Viet Dung, one of the signatories, said China’s aggressiveness with regard to South China Sea reclamation projects led him to sign the letter.

Japan and the Philippines, which each have their own maritime territorial disputes with China, have both welcomed the U.S. decision to enter the area around the Chinese man made islands.

Beijing has called it a "deliberate provocation", but Washington has said its "freedom of navigation" exercise was completely legal and routine, and was not meant to question China's territorial claims.

_This report was produced in collaboration with the VOA Vietnamese service._


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## Aqsuperman

looking forward to the day of missiles arned-UAV


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## Viet

well if it´s me, I hope the russian government finally okays the sale of Iskander tactical balistic missile. the warhead can be either conventional or nuclear. if approved, that will put the Russia-China "friendship" to a test. let see if their friendship survives.


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## Viet

Spratlys: images from land reclamation works of last year. recently released. one can expect such things continue days and nights...increasing land mass, improving infrastructures, and building up defence facilities. I hope heavy machineries will soon arrive to speed up the process.


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## Viet




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## pher

Viet said:


> Spratlys: images from land reclamation works of last year. one can expect such things continue days and nights...increasing land mass, improving infrastructures, and building up defence facilities. I hope heavy machineries will soon arrive to speed up the process.


Showing off your jungle spirits again??? but it will only take us 5 secs to canel your hard labour of 10 years, stupid veits.


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## Viet

pher said:


> Showing off your jungle spirits again??? but it will only take us 5 secs to canel your hard labour of 10 years, stupid veits.


empty threat. if you can do, you had done long ago.


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## pher

Viet said:


> empty threat. if you can do, you had done long ago.


It is not a threat, just a situatioan analysis. of course, we will do it after at least 10 years' exghustion of your resources, just like we massively make the man-made isands now rather than before, it is all about timing.


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## Aqsuperman

pher said:


> Showing off your jungle spirits again??? but it will only take us 5 secs to canel your hard labour of 10 years, stupid veits.





pher said:


> It is not a threat, just a situatioan analysis. of course, we will do it after at least 10 years' exghustion of your resources, just like we massively make the man-made isands now rather than before, it is all about timing.




LOL learn to speak proper English if you intend to deliver threat (or troll) in it :v and Chinese timing ? always been bad since the founding of the nation up to today , the last time China try to do some "timing" with us , 30000 Chinese lost their lives , before that every other "timing" turn out be shitty as well , "will , after , later , in the end , blah blah blah " , more like a saleman try to sell shitty stuff than a "situatioan analysis" :v


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## Viet

pher said:


> It is not a threat, just a situatioan analysis. of course, we will do it after at least 10 years' exghustion of your resources, just like we massively make the man-made isands now rather than before, it is all about timing.


we still have some surprises for you.

Russia is willing to offer Kalibr cruise missile for next generation of Vietnam surface warships. so the Molynia would likely carry additional Kalibr, a land attack missle, instead of only Uran-E antiship missiles today. if you don´t know what Kalibr is, just ask the IS terrorists, because they had tasted the missiles from the russian warships recently.

Vietnam Molynia corvettes


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## pher

Viet said:


> we still have some surprises for you.
> 
> Russia is willing to offer Kalibr cruise missile for next generation of Vietnam surface warships. so the Molynia would likely carry additional Kalibr, instead of only Uran-E antiship missiles today. if you don´t know what Kalibr is, just ask the IS terrorists, because they had tasted the missiles from the russian warships recently.
> 
> Vietnam Molynia corvettes


we can destroy your whole country anytime we want, it is all about timing. no matter how much suprising you carried. remember viets, the only target of us now is america, and we will come back to be number one in the world again as we did in most time of human history.


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## Viet

pher, the viet girls laugh at your bragging. go and take on America. All the best to you.


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## Aqsuperman

pher said:


> we can destroy your whole country anytime we want, it is all about timing. no matter how much suprising you carried. remember viets, the only target of us now is america, and we will come back to be number one in the world again as we did in most time of human history.



LOL LOL LOL , "most time of human history" :v more like "most of the time when Japan wasnt there to kick our butt........or busy killing each other" , again with the "ultra belief" in your "timing" , so sad , the same tongue back in the 19th century , you should read "The true story of Ah Q" by Lu Xun , you have no idea how much you and the main character have in common :v yeah , keep up with that , "we can destroy your country whenever we want" :v lol maybe after the abolishment of your country "one child policy" , we will see either China choke itself to dead first or turn to war :v


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## cnleio

pher said:


> we can destroy your whole country anytime we want, it is all about timing. no matter how much suprising you carried. remember viets, the only target of us now is america, and we will come back to be number one in the world again as we did in most time of human history.


Well ... can we stop trolling each other in a military photo thread ?  Just see photos, ths.



Viet said:


> well if it´s me, I hope the russian government finally okays the sale of Iskander tactical balistic missile. the warhead can be either conventional or nuclear. if approved, that will put the Russia-China "friendship" to a test. let see if their friendship survives.


1. Several Iskander tactical balistic missiles from Russia, can't help Vietnam anymore ... coz China lands is too big for some missiles attack.

2. Iskander to Vietnam from Russia is like DF-15/16/21 to Georgia/UKraine from China, both won't do that to break our good-relationship. Coz right now both consider each other more important than other nations.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Well ... can we stop trolling each other in a military photo thread ?  Just see photos, ths.
> 
> Several Iskander tactical balistic missiles from Russia, can't help Vietnam anymore ... coz China lands is too big for some missiles attack.


ha ha ha ...it is your comrade pher that wants to provoke here.

we needn´t destroy China, just increase the stakes, the costs you have to pay in case of armed confrontation. "increase" is the word of our time my friend. our strategy must be to increase the potential costs/damages to you, more than you are willing to pay. Iskander can inflict huge costs to the PLA, and China at large. I think it is not a secret, the PLA artillery corps has a missile unit in southern China targeting Vietnam.


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...it is your comrade pher that wants to provoke here.
> 
> we needn´t destroy China, just increase the stakes, the costs you have to pay in case of armed confrontation. "increase" is the word of our time. our strategy must be to increase the potential costs/demages to you, more than you are willing to pay. Iskander can inflict huge costs to the PLA, and China at large.


The kid playing fire at last will catch fire first ... 'missile rain' isn't a good game for Vietnam but China has the capacity.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> The kid playing fire at last will catch fire first ... 'missile rain' isn't a good game for Vietnam but China has the capacity.


true. our capacity is limited, so our money. but we only want to kill our enemy one time, not 100 times.


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> true. our capacity is limited, so our money. but we only want to kill our enemy one time, not 100 times.


Iskander missle belong to the attack weapon and range over 300km ... under current world politics situation, Vietnam can't get it from Russia (I added the reason in above post), might try U.S. When Vietnam become more important than China for Russian ... maybe yes.


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## Aqsuperman

Talking purely in military view (which mean no troll at all ) : There is no countries that can directly challenge China , like Russia , its very large so unless that country can turn out the same resources and manpower , offensive action is unlikely and quite a madness move . But for defensive , things remain open . Take a Vietnam for example , again only in theory :v , we would focus only in 3 China military region : Chengdu , Nanjing and Guangzhou . Our long range missiles is indeed not many so we make sure every shot count


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Iskander missle belong to the attack weapon and range over 300km ... under current world politics situation, Vietnam can't get it from Russia (I added the reason in above post), might try U.S. When Vietnam become more important than China for Russian ... maybe yes.


Russia has an export version: Iskander-E (280km). if approved by the russian government, we can learn the technology and improve the range. the director of Rosoboronexport, Igor Sevastyanov, said once his company was willing to export Iskander to Syria and...Vietnam.


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## Viet

the fighter regiments of 929, 935, 937 and 940 are responsible for the Eastern Front: the South China Sea.




















Su-30 bombers flypast an island.

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## Aqsuperman

a S-300 reloading vehicle , can carry 4 rounds and reload them on a launcher in a fairly short time


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## Viet

apropos Galil rifle, the Marines still stick to AK variant.


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## Viet

40 years after ending the Vietnam war, and continue in service: US made highspeed inshore patrol boats. these all metal craft were once used for CIA operations during the Vietnam war.


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## Aqsuperman

just a stroll


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## Viet

*Bilateral relations*
*China's Xi aiming to 'reset' ties on Vietnam visit*


*Date* 03.11.2015
*Author* Gabriel Domínguez

Amid heightened tensions over territorial disputes in the South China Sea, Chinese President Xi Jinping will embark on his first state visit to Vietnam in a bid to mend strained relations between the communist nations.




_President Xi's trip from November 5 to 6 will be his first to the Southeast Asian nation as the top leader of the Communist Party of China (CPC) and the head of state. Xi is expected to meet with Vietnam's leaders, including general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang._

During the two-day visit, the neighboring countries are expected to sign a host of agreements on areas such as party-to-party cooperation, culture education, infrastructure projects, economy, trade and investment, according to China's state-run news agency Xinhua.

China is Vietnam's largest trade partner, with bilateral trade reaching $83.6 billion last year - of which Chinese exports to Vietnam comprised more than $50 billion. This year, Sino-Vietnamese trade is estimated to reach $90 billion, increasing to $100 billion in 2016, according to Chinese media.

Speaking to Xinhua, Li Jun, a senior official of the International Department of the CPC Central Committee, said Xi's Vietnam trip comes at a new stage of bilateral ties, as the two sides have agreed to work together to link China's Belt and Road Initiative and Vietnam's "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan.

"Xi's upcoming trip will […] advance the development of the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership," Li was quoted as saying.





Vietnam has repeatedly accused China of carrying out illegal land reclamation projects in the the South China Sea.


*Territorial disputes*

But the Chinese leader will also want to use the visit to defuse heightened tensions over territorial disputes in the South China Sea (SCS), as Hanoi has repeatedly accused Beijing of carrying out illegal land reclamation projects in the area and of violating its territorial sovereignty.

China claims most of the potentially energy-rich waterway, through which $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year, arguing that it is asserting its so-called "historic rights" to maritime resources in the area.

According to US government officials, China has now reclaimed over two million square meters of new land, while Vietnam's reclamation projects total approximately 200,000 square meters.

"There are territorial disputes over the Paracels and the Spratly Islands. Moreover, the southern part of the Gulf of Tonkin still has not been demarcated, and Chinese vessels routinely harass Vietnamese or foreign investors' seismic research vessels or fishermen," Zachary Abuza, a Southeast Asia security expert and professor at the Washington-based National War College, told DW.

Last year, Beijing's deployment of a massive oil rig, in what Vietnam calls its exclusive economic zone and on its continental shelf, escalated tensions in the region, sparking violent anti-Chinese protests and the worst breakdown in relations since the brief border war in 1979.




_Tensions between China and Vietnam escalated following Beijing's deployment of a massive oil rig in disputed waters.
_

*'A lot of pressure'*

Besides Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan also have overlapping claims in the area. And the speed of Chinese expansion in the SCS has also alarmed the United States which recently sent a warship inside the 12-nautical-mile limit of one of the Chinese-made artificial islands in a bid to "assert freedom of navigation" in what Washington views as international waters.

The Chinese condemned the move as "illegal" and a threat to their country's sovereignty.

"On the surface, China will be calling for a peaceful resolution of territorial disputes - without giving up anything - and for Vietnam to support China's economic agenda. There will also be talks of fraternal socialist ties and party-party relations," said Abuza, referring to Xi's upcoming visit.





_The general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV), Nguyen Phu Trong, visited US last year in a bid to bolster bilateral ties._


But behind the scenes, there will be a lot of pressure on Vietnam, which Beijing views as being proactively anti-Chinese in its foreign policy, the analyst argues. "China is unhappy at the closeness of Vietnam's relationship with the United States, including the unprecedented visit of the CPV General Secretary to Washington last July," said Abuza.

*Growing anti-Chinese sentiment*

In fact, experts point out that while the two Communist parties still maintain close ties, China's land reclamation and militarization of features in the SCS has strained relations over the past year.

"A number of senior Vietnamese officials and intellectuals are increasingly wary of China's actions and ambitions; and signing on to the recently-concluded US-led Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement was but one strategic option pursued by Hanoi to gradually move away from China's orbit, so to speak," Phuong Nguyen, a Vietnam expert at the Center for Strategic & International Studies, told DW.

As a result of the dispute, public opinion in Vietnam toward China has turned extremely negative, in stark contrast to popular sentiment felt toward the United States, a former battlefield foe, analyst Nguyen indicated.

Added to this is the consideration that Xi's visit comes ahead of Vietnam's 12th Party Congress in early 2016. Beijing is therefore concerned that a number of pro-Western individuals who have been vociferous in their criticism of China will assume top leadership positions. "My guess is that Xi will make China's position on these individuals very clear," said Abuza.

*A chance for 'course correction'*




Many countries in the region have competing claims in the South China Sea.

The upcoming trip will be just as important to China as it will be to Vietnam as it might help define where the bilateral relationship is headed.

"It is crucial for President Xi to avoid pushing Vietnam into the arms of Japan and the US. Xi will therefore offer comprehensive economic incentives to Vietnam, Moritz Rudolf, a China expert and research associate at Germany-based Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), told DW.

For Hanoi, the visit could be viewed as a strong symbol that despite advances in relations with Washington, it still maintains an independent foreign policy and strives to strike a balance in its engagement with the world's two superpowers.

For Beijing, which seems to have underestimated Hanoi's strategic resolve, the visit can be a "course correction" to help it patch up its often bittersweet relationship with Vietnam, as CSIS expert Ngyuen pointed out. Beijing also needs good relations with Vietnam to bolster its relations with the Association of Southeast Asia Nations (ASEAN) and make Maritime Silk Road project a success.

Analyst Nguyen is convinced, however, that irrespective of any reassurances offered by Xi, Beijing will most likely move on to expand its encroachment in the strategic SCS and that Hanoi will, in turn, continue to defend its own regional interests.

*Hanoi's omnidirectional approach*

"By improving its own maritime domain awareness and maritime defense capabilities of its Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard, Hanoi can make Beijing think twice about its aggressive streak toward smaller Southeast Asian neighbors, something other claimant states such as the Philippines or Malaysia can't or won't do. And the United States has begun to more actively support Vietnam in this pursuit," said Nguyen.

But the Vietnamese are not just banking on US support, as experts point to Hanoi's "omnidirectional" foreign policy. "The Vietnamese seek good ties with the US, Japan, ASEAN, India, Australia, and Russia, as well as China. The problem is that the Chinese have a very zero-sum view of the world, and they see Hanoi's improved relations with Washington, New Delhi, Tokyo and Canberra, as part of an effort to 'contain' China, which expects deference from Vietnam," said analyst Abuza.

For instance, he pointed out that China is very worried that Vietnam - which has also tried to galvanize ASEAN consensus against Chinese assertiveness in the SCS - is opening up the strategic port of Cam Ranh Bay, though on a "commercial basis" and to no one's exclusion.

"Clearly the US seeks to benefit from this, and this week the Japanese Minister of Defense is in Hanoi and will likely negotiate access to it for the Japanese Self-Defense Forces, thus probably angering Beijing," said the Southeast Asia expert.

*No game-changer expected*

Given these developments, experts say that beyond trade and investment agreements, Xi's visit will likely be short on tangible results, especially regarding the territorial disputes. "There may be a statement in principle to finish the demarcation of the Gulf of Tonkin and a joint blueprint for the development of long-term bilateral ties, but I am not predicting any meaningful breakthroughs," said Abuza.

Analyst Nguyen has a similar view: "The level of mistrust and disillusion brought about by China's actions will not go away in Hanoi and among the Vietnamese public just because of Xi Jinping's two-day visit."

Nevertheless, given the frequent high-level contacts, as well as deep historical and political ties between the two countries, MERICS analyst Rudolf believes an escalation of the dispute seems unlikely at this point.

China′s Xi aiming to ′reset′ ties on Vietnam visit | Asia | DW.COM | 03.11.2015


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## Aqsuperman

Training with a certain country..........


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## Viet

*Japan donates two boats to Vietnam to patrol South China Sea*
*
ANADOLU AGENCY*
TOKYO
Published 18 hours ago





_Japan Coast Guard Ki ta ka Mi (PM02) Teshio-class patrol boat._

Japan has sent two boats to Vietnam to be used as patrol boats amid China's recent demonstrations of force in the South China Sea.

Kyodo News reported Tuesday that the Japanese government had provided two second-hand fishing boats to the Vietnamese coast guard to strengthen the country's law enforcement capability.

China continues to defend its maritime boundary claims in the South China Sea in response to United States warships sailing near the Spratly Islands -- where it has reportedly constructed two artificial islands on Subi and Mischief reefs.

China's military released photos late Sunday that show fighter jets flying over the sea near Vietnamese waters.

Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, and the Philippines have also laid claims to areas of the Spratly archipelago.

The donated vessels form part of an aid deal signed between Japan and Vietnam in Aug. 2014. They were delivered to *Danang*, a city on Vietnam's east coast, to be refurbished as patrol boats.

The aid-in-kind deal provided for the delivery of six vessels to the Vietnamese side, with two remaining to be delivered, Kyodo News reported.

The U.S. and Japan have expressed alarm at China's maritime expansion, which they suspect is aimed at extending its military reach, while the Philippines -- which calls the area the West Philippine Sea -- has taken the quarrel to the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea in The Hague.

Japan will reportedly assist Vietnam with additional vessels under a separate agreement signed in Sept. 2014.

Japan donates two boats to Vietnam to patrol South China Sea - Daily Sabah


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Interesting development: Japanese Media (Nikkei) reports during the upcoming visit of Japan defence minister Gen Nakatani to Vietnam, Japanese government seeks to negotiate sending for the first time ever warships for visits and exercises with Vietnam in the SC Sea, starting 2016. exciting times ahead. I think the chinese have no reason to complain. they are the one that seeks confrontation.



We won't complain. All that we do is to accelerate the pace for island construction in South China Sea.

Feel happy for the Guangzhou Military Region and the South Sea Fleet, because they now have stronger reasons to ask for more defence fee from the government.



Viet said:


> we still have some surprises for you.
> 
> Russia is willing to offer Kalibr cruise missile for next generation of Vietnam surface warships. so the Molynia would likely carry additional Kalibr, a land attack missle, instead of only Uran-E antiship missiles today. if you don´t know what Kalibr is, just ask the IS terrorists, because they had tasted the missiles from the russian warships recently.



Honestly, the most surprising thing to me is that although Vietnam's total GDP is even shorter than China's military spending (Vietnam GDP 186 billion USD vs. China defense spending 216 billion USD, both 2014 figures), some Vietnam persons still believe they could pose military threatens to China


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> We won't complain. All that we do is to accelerate the pace for island construction in South China Sea.
> 
> Feel happy for the Guangzhou Military Region and the South Sea Fleet, because they now have stronger reasons to ask for more defence fee from the government.


you have a perfect excuse, haven´t you? I hope we have fulfilled your wish.
but come on, you can admit whatever we do, you will see it as excuse for your military build-up.


GS Zhou said:


> Honestly, the most surprising thing to me is that although Vietnam's total GDP is even shorter than China's military spending (Vietnam GDP 186 billion USD vs. China defense spending 216 billion USD, both 2014 figures), some Vietnam persons still believe they could pose military threatens to China


it is about defending our country against aggression. if you see it as a threat, then be it. by the way what is your point of comparing GDP figures? I can list here a number of countries in the world whose GDP is lower than the afromentioned defence spending. will you come taking their people´s property, raping their people just because they are poor? should I give you my little money because you are richer than me?


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> you have a perfect excuse, haven´t you? I hope we have fulfilled your wish.
> but come on, you can admit whatever we do, you will see it as excuse for your military build-up.
> 
> it is about defending our country against aggression. if you see it as a threat, then be it. by the way what is your point of comparing GDP figures? I can list here a number of countries in the world whose GDP is lower than the afromentioned defence spending. will you come taking their people´s property, raping their people just because they are poor? should I give you my little money because you are richer than me?



We don't have interests to get your land or your people. Needless to say rape. All that we want is to get back the islands and sea that belonging to us

You have every reason to develop and modernize your army. I fully respect that. But given the huge gaps between China and Vietnam, either in the areas of economic affordability or military industry capabilities, the more you understand modern warfare, the more desperate you will be.

If I were you, I would not spend time on posting these meaningless pictures. I would rather think of if there are any particular things I could do for my motherland. Maybe get better engineering education to help Vietnam modernize its manufacturing industry, or work harder and pay more taxes to the government. This is the right things that a patriotic Vietnamese should do.


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## Aqsuperman

The more you understand our "history" , the more you see that military spending impact little on the the real war , unless all those spending is only for 3 military region that close to the Southern border . The point never was reaching China capabilities and never will , the point is to protect and take back what is rightfully our, you got your reasons we got our . And shall the only solution is another repeat of the '79 , we will see it to the end . and about us posting picture ? its a way for us to discuss our army potential , in the end this is a military discussion thread , taxes ? we pay them well , and in case of war , the manpower wil be us . Everybody got their job to fulfill , you cant expect every single person to have the same way to prove themselve patriotic 

Some new toys for our police


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## GS Zhou

Aqsuperman said:


> The more you understand our "history" , the more you see that military spending impact little on the the real war , unless all those spending is only for 3 military region that close to the Southern border . The point never was reaching China capabilities and never will , the point is to protect and take back what is rightfully our, you got your reasons we got our . And shall the only solution is another repeat of the '79 , we will see it to the end . and about us posting picture ? its a way for us to discuss our army potential , in the end this is a military discussion thread , taxes ? we pay them well , and in case of war , the manpower wil be us . Everybody got their job to fulfill , you cant expect every single person to have the same way to prove themselve patriotic
> 
> Some new toys for our police


If one spends 100 on military and another spends 80, then the difference may not be too big. But if one spends 100 and another spends 2, what's worse is that the 100-spending guy makes almost all weapons by its own, while the 2-spending guy almost soely depends on imports, how could you convince yourself that "military spending impact little on the real war"?

Btw, do you understand Chinese? If not, how could you read the ancient books in your country and learn history accordingly?


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## Aqsuperman

well you do spent 10 times our budget on military but as i said you dont spent all of it on military units on the Southern border , China spent it all over the country garrisons , you dont mean the Southern units armed with QBZ-95 and Type 99 but the Northen and those facing Taiwan use Type 56 rifle and Type 59 tank right ? Attack maybe not a option for us but defend is quite a diffrent matter , economy-of-force is what we will put to play , history contain many example about this type of warfare , if the side that have more military spending always win , plenty of countries wont exist today . And about the domestic military infrastructure , i admit that we do lack behind but we do try to keep up in cetain area , mostly anti-ship missiles and anti-tank launcher , cant say they are big and gorgeous but its pretty effective and mobile .

Nope , i cant . Our ancestor used to have a variant of Chinese charaters to record story ( a bit like Japan Kanji or Korean Hanja but have plenty of modifications for familiarization ) Now we use Latin alphabet so we can only read history books that are written by it , before that.......well we need a damn translation verison :v


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## Thao Nguyen

new radar made in Vietnam, and Zu-23 upgrade


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## GS Zhou

Aqsuperman said:


> well you do spent 10 times our budget on military but as i said you dont spent all of it on military units on the Southern border , China spent it all over the country garrisons , you dont mean the Southern units armed with QBZ-95 and Type 99 but the Northen and those facing Taiwan use Type 56 rifle and Type 59 tank right ? Attack maybe not a option for us but defend is quite a diffrent matter , economy-of-force is what we will put to play , history contain many example about this type of warfare , if the side that have more military spending always win , plenty of countries wont exist today . And about the domestic military infrastructure , i admit that we do lack behind but we do try to keep up in cetain area , mostly anti-ship missiles and anti-tank launcher , cant say they are big and gorgeous but its pretty effective and mobile .
> 
> Nope , i cant . Our ancestor used to have a variant of Chinese charaters to record story ( a bit like Japan Kanji or Korean Hanja but have plenty of modifications for familiarization ) Now we use Latin alphabet so we can only read history books that are written by it , before that.......well we need a damn translation verison :v


 
Thanks for your response.

I don't want to make math calculation here. But China's 2014 military spending is 216,371 million USD, while Vietnam's spending is 4,251 million USD. The ratio thereof is China 50 vs. Vietnam 1. Resource for the figures: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. You could look for other resources to support your 10:1 conclusion.

Lets assume China spends 10% of the spending on China-Vietnam front, the ratio is still 5:1. What's worse is:
- The military industry capability difference means China could spending its defence fee more efficiently
- Vietnam also needs to spend certain resouces on the borders with Thailand, Cambodia and Laos. I don't think they are 100% trustworthy partners to Vietnam that need no military defend at all. 

So, I won't be surprised to see the ratio enlarged to 7:1, or even 10:1. This is apparently not enough if the target is to fully occupy Vietnam. But as what I said already, We have no interests on the land of Vietnam, our target is just to get back the islands and sea that belonging to us. So, we have full confidence to realize this small target in short to mid future.

Feel pressure? This is exactly what I mean by "the more you understand modern warefare, the more desperate you will be".

Post VN military pictures could not help your country; be part of the troop in war time also could not help. Untrained manpower is completely useless in a moder war! Agree?

Believe me, hard working is the only way. So, power off your computer and pick up your maths or physics book, this is the best you could do for your country.

BTW, thanks much to your response on language. That helps!

BTW one more time, you are the most rationale VN person so far I talked with on PDF. I like the conversation with you. Hope you too.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Thanks for your response.
> 
> I don't want to make math calculation here. But China's 2014 military spending is 216,371 million USD, while Vietnam's spending is 4,251 million USD. The ratio thereof is China 50 vs. Vietnam 1. Resource for the figures: Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. You could look for other resources to support your 10:1 conclusion.
> 
> Lets assume China spends 10% of the spending on China-Vietnam front, the ratio is still 5:1. What's worse is:
> - The military industry capability difference means China could spending its defence fee more efficiently
> - Vietnam also needs to spend certain resouces on the borders with Thailand, Cambodia and Laos. I don't think they are 100% trustworthy partners to Vietnam that need no military defend at all.
> 
> So, I won't be surprised to see the ratio enlarged to 7:1, or even 10:1. This is apparently not enough if the target is to fully occupy Vietnam. But as what I said already, We have no interests on the land of Vietnam, our target is just to get back the islands and sea that belonging to us. So, we have full confidence to realize this small target in short to mid future.
> 
> Feel pressure? This is exactly what I mean by "the more you understand modern warefare, the more desperate you will be".
> 
> Post VN military pictures could not help your country; be part of the troop in war time also could not help. Untrained manpower is completely useless in a moder war! Agree?
> 
> Believe me, hard working is the only way. So, power off your computer and pick up your maths or physics book, this is the best you could do for your country.
> 
> BTW, thanks much to your response on language. That helps!
> 
> BTW one more time, you are the most rationale VN person so far I talked with on PDF. I like the conversation with you. Hope you too.


you like to compare China vs Vietnam and make the conclusion: you win.
how about comparing China to the US military complex? America wins?


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> you like to compare China vs Vietnam and make the conclusion: you win.
> how about comparing China to the US military complex? America wins?



Very good question. 
It depends on where it occurs: 
1. If the fight happens in east Asia, no matter Japan, Taiwan or the South China Sea, US loses; 
2. if the fight happens in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, China loses; 
3. If the fight eventually grows to be a nuclear war, the Earth loses.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Very good question.
> It depends on where it occurs:
> 1. If the fight happens in east Asia, no matter Japan, Taiwan or the South China Sea, US loses;
> 2. if the fight happens in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, China loses;
> 3. If the fight eventually grows to be a nuclear war, the Earth loses.


you have humour in respect of point 1.


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## Aqsuperman

Well have it your way then , pressure is what we feel since the birth of our nation , glad to be helpful 

SA-13 and Zsu-23-4 form the air-cover umbrella for mechanized formation while strategic stastic position will be defend by large caliber AAA , S-125 and S-300 , SA-17 and SA-22 havent show up so far yet.............


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> you have humour in respect of point 1.


you lack the understanding on the Chinese military force. Good for you, otherwise it will be harmful to your sleep because of the deep fear and frustration surrounded.


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## Nike

*Bharat, Larsen & Toubro make joint bid for Vietnam's frigate upgrade*
*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
03 November 2015


*Key Points*

An Indian consortium is bidding to upgrade Vietnam's five Petya-class frigates
Upgrades aim to improve the ASW capabilities of the Soviet-era warships
An Indian consortium consisting of engineering firm Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and state-owned company Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) has submitted a bid to upgrade the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy's five Petya (Project 159A/AE)-class frigates, an official from India's Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) confirmed with _IHS Jane's_ on 4 November.

A major part of the upgrade work will be aimed at improving the platform's anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities. "This includes a replacement of the vessel's hull-mounted sonar and anti-submarine weapons", said the DRDO representative.
Bharat, Larsen & Toubro make joint bid for Vietnam's frigate upgrade - IHS Jane's 360

i thought they wanna to decommissioned all of their Petya class

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Nike

much of off-topic discussion

@Hu Songshan feel free to clean and delete irrelevant posts here


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> *Bharat, Larsen & Toubro make joint bid for Vietnam's frigate upgrade*
> *Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Navy International
> 03 November 2015
> 
> 
> *Key Points*
> 
> An Indian consortium is bidding to upgrade Vietnam's five Petya-class frigates
> Upgrades aim to improve the ASW capabilities of the Soviet-era warships
> An Indian consortium consisting of engineering firm Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and state-owned company Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) has submitted a bid to upgrade the People's Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy's five Petya (Project 159A/AE)-class frigates, an official from India's Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) confirmed with _IHS Jane's_ on 4 November.
> 
> A major part of the upgrade work will be aimed at improving the platform's anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities. "This includes a replacement of the vessel's hull-mounted sonar and anti-submarine weapons", said the DRDO representative.
> Bharat, Larsen & Toubro make joint bid for Vietnam's frigate upgrade - IHS Jane's 360
> 
> *i thought they wanna to decommissioned all of their Petya class*


no way. I posted here news Japan donates decade old patrol ships that will serve in our navy in the decades to come. true, the Petya can be sent to retirement. but since we lack of surface warships, they will be refurbished and served until they fall down apart.

Vietnam Petya class light Frigates


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## Viet

*Vietnam, Japan to hold the first ever joint naval exercise*


Vietnam agreed on Friday to invite a Japanese warship to visit its strategic Cam Ranh Bay base on the South China Sea and for the two countries to hold their first ever joint naval exercise, Kyodo News reported.

*POSTED:* 06 Nov 2015 15:25





Japan's Defence Minister Gen Nakatani (R) reviews the guard of honour with his Vietnamese counterpart General Phung Quang Thanh at the Ministry of Defence in Hanoi, Vietnam November 6, 2015. REUTERS/Stringer

TOKYO: Vietnam agreed on Friday to invite a Japanese warship to visit its strategic Cam Ranh Bay base on the South China Sea and for the two countries to hold their first ever joint naval exercise, Kyodo News reported.

The agreement was reached during a meeting in Hanoi between Japanese Minister of Defence Gen Nakatani and his Vietnamese counterpart, Phung Quang Thanh, the news agency said.

The visit to the port, which is close to the disputed waters of the Spratly Islands where China is building bases on reclaimed islands, may further irritate China after a recent U.S. naval patrol close to the man-made outcrops prompted Chinese protests.

The United States defended the action as a freedom-of-navigation patrol.






While Japan has avoided antagonizing China with similar operations, it is nonetheless forging security ties with Southeast Asia nations, particular Vietnam and the Philippines, that oppose China's ambitions in the South China Sea.

Vietnam has allowed vessels from other countries including the United States and Russia to dock in Cam Ranh Bay, but foreign visits to the facility, which is home to several of Vietnam's Russian-built Kilo-Class submarines, are rare.

Established as a base by the United States during the Vietnam War, Cam Ranh Bay was later used largely by Russian forces.

Chinese President Xi Jinping has also been visiting Vietnam this week.

(Reporting by Tim Kelly and Martin Petty; Editing by Robert Birsel)

Vietnam agrees to Japanese warship visit, naval exercise - Kyodo - Channel NewsAsia


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## Viet

_I´m posting here an article from a Viet media reporting on the Japanese Army Chief to Vietnam. Pls use google or other translator as I´m a bit lazy now. In the Vietnam´s Army Headquarter, among other topics, Nakatani explained the new Japan Security Bill, allowing the expansion the role of Japan's armed forces. Interesting is the fact, we aren't Japan ally, so why he needs to explain the bill to us?_


Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Việt - Nhật bàn về Biển Đông - Tin tức Quân sự

Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Nhật Bản kỳ vọng Việt Nam đóng vai trò quan trọng trong việc đảm bảo hoà bình và ổn định trong khu vực.

Sáng nay (6/11), tại trụ sở Bộ Quốc phòng, Bộ trưởng Phùng Quang Thanh đã chủ trì lễ đón và hội đàm với Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Nhật Bản Nakatani Gen đang ở thăm chính thức Việt Nam.

Bộ trưởng Phùng Quang Thanh khẳng định chuyến thăm tăng cường hợp tác song phương, tin cậy giữa Bộ Quốc phòng hai nước.





Theo Bộ trưởng, chuyến thăm là dịp 2 bên triển khai cụ thể hóa thỏa thuận của lãnh đạo cấp cao của 2 nhà nước, làm rõ thêm những nội hàm hợp tác quốc phòng.

Trong phần đáp từ, mở lời bằng tiếng Việt _"Xin chào",_ Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Nhật Bản Nakatani Gen bày tỏ vui mừng khi đến VN lần đầu tiên sau 2 năm với tư cách Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng Nhật Bản.

Ông kể lại chuyến thăm tới cảng Cam Ranh và thăm Học viện Hải quân VN hôm qua, được nghe giới thiệu về ý nghĩa, nhiệm vụ, đào tạo của Học viện. Thông qua đó ông được hiểu thêm nhiều về Hải quân VN.





Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Nhật Bản kỳ vọng thúc đẩy hợp tác quốc phòng giữa 2 nước, mong Việt Nam sẽ phát triển hơn nữa, đóng vai trò quan trọng trong việc đảm bảo hoà bình và ổn định trong khu vực.

*Tăng cường đối thoại*

Tại hội đàm, hai bên khẳng định tiếp tục nỗ lực để thực hiện _"Bản ghi nhớ giữa Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam và Bộ quốc phòng Nhật Bản về hợp tác trao đổi quốc phòng song phương"_ cũng như thoả thuận tăng cường hợp tác trong lĩnh vực quốc phòng an ninh.

Đồng thời nhất trí tiếp tục tăng cường các chuyến thăm cấp cao và giao lưu các cấp, nâng cao hiệu quả các cơ chế đối thoại, tham vấn, thúc đẩy hợp tác trong lĩnh vực đào tạo, thực hiện có hiệu quả bản ghi nhớ hợp tác quốc phòng trong tham gia các hoạt động gìn giữ hoà bình của Liên hợp quốc, bảo đảm tự do, an toàn hàng hải, hàng không.












Bên cạnh thúc đẩy hợp tác quốc phòng song phương, hai bên nhất trí tiếp tục hợp tác tích cực trong các vấn đề an ninh khu vực, phối hợp chặt chẽ trong khuôn khổ các tổ chức và diễn đàn quốc tế, nhất là hội nghị Bộ trưởng quốc phòng các nước ASEAN mở rộng (ADMM+).

Hai bên khẳng định hoà bình và ổn định trên biển là lợi ích chung của cả hai nước cũng như cộng đồng quốc tế. Hai Bộ trưởng cũng chia sẻ lập trường rằng lập trường tất cả các bên hữu quan cần tuân thủ luật pháp quốc tế, bao gồm công ước của Liên hợp quốc về Luật biển năm 1982.





*Kiềm chế phức tạp ở Biển Đông*

Nhất trí về tầm quan trọng của việc tất cả các bên hữu quan duy trì an ninh, an toàn và tự do hàng hải, hàng không tại khu vực châu Á - Thái Bình Dương, tôn trọng độc lập, chủ quyền và lợi ích chính đáng của nhau.

Kiềm chế, không làm phức tạp thêm tình hình và giải quyết các tranh chấp bằng biện pháp hoà bình, phù hợp với luật pháp quốc tế, trong đó có công ước luật biển 1982, yêu cầu các bên liên quan thực hiện đầy đủ Tuyên bố về quy tắc ứng xử của các bên ở Biển Đông (DOC), tăng cường đối thoại và thương lượng để có thể sớm đạt được Bộ Quy tắc ứng xử của các bên tại Biêtn Đông (COC).





Bộ trưởng Nakatani Gen cũng giới thiệu về luật An ninh mới của Nhật, giải thích bộ luật này nhằm củng cố hơn nữa con đường của một quốc gia hoà bình 70 năm sau chiến tranh của Nhật Bản gắn liền với việc tiến hành những hành động thực tiễn cụ thể dựa trên "Chủ nghĩa hòa bình tích cực" mà Nhật Bản khởi xướng.










Bộ trưởng Phùng Quang Thanh hoan nghênh những đóng góp tích cực của Nhật Bản đối với hoà bình và phát triển thông qua những nỗ lực vì hoà bình, an ninh, hợp tác và phát triển ở khu vực và trên thế giới.


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## Aqsuperman

Testing upgraded M113 amphibious ability , mostly useful in manouvering swampy ground in the South


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> the fighter regiments of 929, 935, 937 and 940 are responsible for the Eastern Front: the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Su-30 bombers flypast an island.



Any news about Mig-21 replacement?

Also, I've notice that Vietnam investing a lot of money into Navy, Air Force and Air Defence. What about ground forces? Any major upgrading programs?


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Telling you the truth: you are right, how can we fight against your superior aircraft and warships with our primitive rifles? Taking into consideration we even don't have enough rifles for the army. Vietnam is a hopeless case. It's the right time for you to start the war in the South China Sea, taking what you want. So what are you waiting for? Shall I send you an invitation today?



Stupid question.

The reason that China could become so strong today is not that we use our military force recklessly, but that we concentrate our mind on economic development and manufacturing industry modernization. A great military force is nothing but the byproduct of a prosperous economy plus a strong manufacturing sector. That is why I respond in this thread that, compared to posting the pictures on a foreign website, a patriotic Vietnamese should rather think of how to pay more taxes to government or contribute the best to help his country sharpen its manufacturing arm.

I guess maybe the largest difference between China and Vietnam is that we Chinese do not celebrate simply because we purchased one or two pieces of weapons from a foreign country. We didn't celebrate the imports of SU-27, because this is not an achievement of us, but an achievement of USSR/Russia; we left the celebration till the day we have our own J10, or J11; we didn't celebrate the imports of Sovremennyy-class destroyer, but left the celebration till the day we have our own 052C, or 052D; we didn't celebrate the imports of S300, but left the celebration till the day we have our own HQ-9, HQ-16, or HQ-19.

Come back to your question, although it is a stupid question indeed. We have our own agenda for taking the South China See back completely. It is not a question of "can, or can not", but a question of "when". So, no need for your to urge us, needless to say send us an invitation.

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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> I respect your military service experience . Yes I don't have any real army experience, that's because the 1.4 billion population of China could offer PLA with sufficient manpower that all having much higher quality than me.
> 
> We have no interest on your land, so no need for you to scare me with the 90 million population of Vietnam.
> 
> Turn back to your infantry experience, how could it help in the potential air or sea battles between VN and CN in future? Can you use ur rifle to intercept the Chinese missile, or shot down a Chinese fighter, or sink a Chinese warship?



Let keep this discussion rational and polite. Infantry will never fight warships and vice versa. Tigers don't fight sharks. But infantry can surely win battles against jet fighters, equipped with MANPAD and some nice anti-aircraft weapons they can take down a lot of flying objects just ask the Soviets in Afghanistan. The Stingers change the dynamic and the course of that war and we all know the result. Fighter jets can do a lot damage but never win battles, you need boots on the ground.

I wrote 90 millions not to scare you but for you to do the math (you love numbers.. ), we all know how much troop you need to occupy a country by the population...In case of VN, it's in millions of troop. China may not be interested of Viet Nam land but China surely want those islands in Spratley. PLA will probably be able to that a few but it will be costly. PLA need to control the sea and air space before landing the marines on those islands. I Think the VPA submarines & fast attack boats, coastal and AAA missiles can do a lot of damage to PLA.

If one day the PLA try to invade those islands, I think VPA with it large infantry navy (30 000) will try to invade 1-2 Chinese islands close to Viet Nam. With it large and competent commando units, VPA will certainly repeat the 1979 war, sending commando units inside China for sabotages and disrupt the supply lines...Until diplomatic negotiation for peace.

A couple things bug me about PLA, the 1st is with that huge flood of new and sophisticated weapons, how PLA will be good in real combat situation? 2nd is with one child policy (2 for countryside family), how long the Chinese society can support a war when dead bodies start to come back home?



GS Zhou said:


> Stupid question.
> 
> The reason that China could become so strong today is not that we use our military force recklessly, but that we concentrate our mind on economic development and manufacturing industry modernization. A great military force is nothing but the byproduct of a prosperous economy plus a strong manufacturing sector. That is why I respond in this thread that, compared to posting the pictures on a foreign website, a patriotic Vietnamese should rather think of how to pay more taxes to government or contribute the best to help his country sharpen its manufacturing arm.
> 
> I guess maybe the largest difference between China and Vietnam is that we Chinese do not celebrate simply because we purchased one or two pieces of weapons from a foreign country. We didn't celebrate the imports of SU-27, because this is not an achievement of us, but an achievement of USSR/Russia; we left the celebration till the day we have our own J10, or J11; we didn't celebrate the imports of Sovremennyy-class destroyer, but left the celebration till the day we have our own 052C, or 052D; we didn't celebrate the imports of S300, but left the celebration till the day we have our own HQ-9, HQ-16, or HQ-19.
> 
> Come back to your question, although it is a stupid question indeed. We have our own agenda for taking the South China See back completely. It is not a question of "can, or can not", but a question of "when". So, no need for your to urge us, needless to say send us an invitation.




China is a top superpower with a super economy, super population and super ambitions, so of course China need to produce their own weapons, buying from others countries make you look weak and make you vulnerable. Viet Nam is just a midsize country with a midsize economy with average ambitions. So what is wrong for a midsize country (who was just like China 20 years+ ago riding bicycles) buying sophisticated weapons with their own money (not donations by other superpower nations). Respect to China for buying sophisticated weapons those last 30 years, copy and upgrade them when China is capable. Viet Nam is just doing the same thing but we are just behind China +10 years (because we are not a superpower...), eventually Viet Nam will be capable to produce them later. So please, just put yourself into a midsize person (vietnamese) and you will understand why we celebrate those hightech purchases. So for calling a question stupid make your answer look stupid



GS Zhou said:


> Stupid question.
> 
> The reason that China could become so strong today is not that we use our military force recklessly, but that we concentrate our mind on economic development and manufacturing industry modernization. A great military force is nothing but the byproduct of a prosperous economy plus a strong manufacturing sector. That is why I respond in this thread that, compared to posting the pictures on a foreign website, a patriotic Vietnamese should rather think of how to pay more taxes to government or contribute the best to help his country sharpen its manufacturing arm.
> 
> I guess maybe the largest difference between China and Vietnam is that we Chinese do not celebrate simply because we purchased one or two pieces of weapons from a foreign country. We didn't celebrate the imports of SU-27, because this is not an achievement of us, but an achievement of USSR/Russia; we left the celebration till the day we have our own J10, or J11; we didn't celebrate the imports of Sovremennyy-class destroyer, but left the celebration till the day we have our own 052C, or 052D; we didn't celebrate the imports of S300, but left the celebration till the day we have our own HQ-9, HQ-16, or HQ-19.
> 
> Come back to your question, although it is a stupid question indeed. We have our own agenda for taking the South China See back completely. It is not a question of "can, or can not", but a question of "when". So, no need for your to urge us, needless to say send us an invitation.



Please stop thinking China can take the whole South China sea when she want, unless you put all the countries in the region on their knees. We are not in the 19th century with Empires and colonies. The cost for the Spratley is too costly and China can certainly take a piece here and there but not the whole cake.

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## Aqsuperman

About Mig 21 , i think that all have been retired except the Bison variant . So far only infantry got some "update" (small , not really fast and permanent :v) mainly the introducing of Gali to certain units , Beside that and programs to upgrading APC engines (M113 , BRDM-2 , BTR-60 , etc) plus putting M101 105mm howitzer on truck , the navy and airforce got pretty much all the remaining budget :v

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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> Let keep this discussion rational and polite. Infantry will never fight warships and vice versa. Tigers don't fight sharks. But infantry can surely win battles against jet fighters, equipped with MANPAD and some nice anti-aircraft weapons they can take down a lot of flying objects just ask the Soviets in Afghanistan. The Stingers change the dynamic and the course of that war and we all know the result. Fighter jets can do a lot damage but never win battles, you need boots on the ground.
> 
> I wrote 90 millions not to scare you but for you to do the math (you love numbers.. ), we all know how much troop you need to occupy a country by the population...In case of VN, it's in millions of troop. China may not be interested of Viet Nam land but China surely want those islands in Spratley. PLA will probably be able to that a few but it will be costly. PLA need to control the sea and air space before landing the marines on those islands. I Think the VPA submarines & fast attack boats, coastal and AAA missiles can do a lot of damage to PLA.
> 
> If one day the PLA try to invade those islands, I think VPA with it large infantry navy (30 000) will try to invade 1-2 Chinese islands close to Viet Nam. With it large and competent commando units, VPA will certainly repeat the 1979 war, sending commando units inside China for sabotages and disrupt the supply lines...Until diplomatic negotiation for peace.
> 
> A couple things bug me about PLA, the 1st is with that huge flood of new and sophisticated weapons, how PLA will be good in real combat situation? 2nd is with one child policy (2 for countryside family), how long the Chinese society can support a war when dead bodies start to come back home?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China is a top superpower with a super economy, super population and super ambitions, so of course China need to produce their own weapons, buying from others countries make you look weak and make you vulnerable. Viet Nam is just a midsize country with a midsize economy with average ambitions. So what is wrong for a midsize country (who was just like China 20 years+ ago riding bicycles) buying sophisticated weapons with their own money (not donations by other superpower nations). Respect to China for buying sophisticated weapons those last 30 years, copy and upgrade them when China is capable. Viet Nam is just doing the same thing but we are just behind China +10 years (because we are not a superpower...), eventually Viet Nam will be capable to produce them later. So please, just put yourself into a midsize person (vietnamese) and you will understand why we celebrate those hightech purchases. So for calling a question stupid make your answer look stupid
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop thinking China can take the whole South China sea when she want, unless you put all the countries in the region on their knees. We are not in the 19th century with Empires and colonies. The cost for the Spratley is too costly and China can certainly take a piece here and there but not the whole cake.




Yes, I agree that let's make the conversation in a rational and polite way. I'll stop using the word like stupid, meanwhile, could you plz. urge other VN PDFer on this thread stop using the insult tone like "crawl back into the shitty hole that you called home"? Agree?


Thanks for the response. Let me make a quick summary of your long message:


you believe the the infantry units could contribute to VN for a victory against China. The detailed approaches include: a) deploy a big amount of manpower on the islands to defend the attack; b) send a large infantry unit to attack 1 or 2 Chinese islands; c) shoot down the Chinese fighters via portable missiles; d) attack Yunnan or Guangxi of China
you believe Vietnam will bring a big casualty to China, which will make the one-child society hard to bear
you believe Vietnam is 10years behind China in terms of military industry capability, but Vietnam is now quickly catching up.

Now I will try to address each of the points that you put:
*1-a: deploy a big amount of manpower on the islands to defend the attack. *
I'm not sure about the exact size of the VN controlled islands in the South China Sea. But even the largest island that you controlled won't be larger than 1km2, or 1000m x 1000m. You could put as many soldiers as you want on the tiny island, but the problem here is:
- an ultra high infantry density will cause horrible casualty to Vietnam. Just imagine how many people a 250kg aerial bomb could kill if it hits a big crowds
- how could you feed these units in war time? All the necessary supplies, even water, needs to be shipped from the land to the islands. This won't be an issue in peaceful time. But now we are talking about war time, how could you guarantee the safety of your supply lines? You really think you could get the command of the sea in war time?

*1-b: send a large infantry unit to attack 1 or 2 Chinese islands*
this is again a question of command of the sea. Could you get it from the PLA Navy and the PLA Airforce?

*1-c: shoot down the Chinese fighters via portable missiles*
I don't deny the possibility fully. But the situation on the small islands is completely different to the USSR/Afghanistan war. The massive size of Afghanistan, as well as its mountainous terrain leaves USSR no other choice but to send its helicopters or fixed-wings planes to fly very low and make the attack within the visual range. The USSR pilots have no ideas where the threaten is, maybe from the bottom, or from the right side, or the left side, or even from the above (e.g. when the plane/helicopter is flying at the bottom of the canyon).

But this is completely not the case for a battle on a small island! We have plenty of long-range missiles to attack the island; the Chinese pilots also don't need to worry about a sudden attack from nowhere, all they need to focus is the small island (1000m x 1000m)!

*1-d: attack Yunnan or Guangxi of China*
I said on this thread again and again that we don't have any interests in the VN land. But that doesn't mean our ground units in Guangxi or Yunnan will be in vacation during the war time. They will be in full preparation for any land assaults from Vietnam. What I want to remind you is that, if the battle concentrates on the sea and the islands alone, this is still a regional conflict that within control. At least the VN cities could be in safety. But if any land assaults made by Vietnam, we will do an immediate revenge. Even Hanoi will be in extreme danger. We could only guarantee the safety of the tomb of Uncle Ho, because we respect him fully as we respect Mao.

*2. You believe Vietnam will bring a big casualty to China, which will make the one-child society hard to bear*
I don't expect a zero-death victory. That is impossible. But it doesn't mean Vietnam could make a big casualty to China. Could you get the command of the air? the command of the sea? If you don't have any, how could you make a big casualty to China?

One child policy brings us huge benefits, but also with many social problems. The affordability of war casualty is one of it. But that doesn't mean we thereof become vulnerable. In especially for a war that gaining back the islands or the sea that belonging to us!

BYW, it is too risky to place the victory bet on the so called "mentally vulnerable" of your opponent.

*3. you believe Vietnam is 10years behind China in terms of military industry capability. *
10 year gap means theoretically that Vietnam should be capable of the things we did in 2004 or 2005. We built our own 052C class destroyers in 2005. Do you mean that Vietnam is capable of this today? We built our own J10 in 1990s', so there must be many VN J10 in service now! Am I right? If J10 is still too complicated for you today, how about MIG21? We built J7 in 1960s', is Vietnam capable of making its own MIG21 today? Tell me your answer! Can, or cannot?

There is nothing more dangerous than underestimate your opponent, in particular it is a much stronger guy than you. But now I do have the feeling that some VN PDFers on this thread have such tendency. Some one said the defence spending ratio is China 10 vs Vietnam 1, but in fact it is 50 vs 1; now you said VN is 10 years behind China for military industry, but in fact it is at least 40 or 50 years gap. And the big spending of China is enlarging the gap constantly. Even if one day VN achieves China's capability today, how far China could go?

Finally, you couldn't stop me believe China could get back all the islands on the South China Sea. I believe this just like I believe Brazil could beat China easily in a football match. The capability gap is so huge! No matter how hard our football players perform, there won't be other outcome for a CN vs BR football game.

I know VN wants to beat us eagerly. There exists no short cut, but to work harder for more taxes payment and stronger domestic manufacturing industry!

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Stupid question.
> 
> The reason that China could become so strong today is not that we use our military force recklessly, but that we concentrate our mind on economic development and manufacturing industry modernization. A great military force is nothing but the byproduct of a prosperous economy plus a strong manufacturing sector. That is why I respond in this thread that, compared to posting the pictures on a foreign website, a patriotic Vietnamese should rather think of how to pay more taxes to government or contribute the best to help his country sharpen its manufacturing arm.
> 
> I guess maybe the largest difference between China and Vietnam is that we Chinese do not celebrate simply because we purchased one or two pieces of weapons from a foreign country. We didn't celebrate the imports of SU-27, because this is not an achievement of us, but an achievement of USSR/Russia; we left the celebration till the day we have our own J10, or J11; we didn't celebrate the imports of Sovremennyy-class destroyer, but left the celebration till the day we have our own 052C, or 052D; we didn't celebrate the imports of S300, but left the celebration till the day we have our own HQ-9, HQ-16, or HQ-19.
> 
> Come back to your question, although it is a stupid question indeed. We have our own agenda for taking the South China See back completely. It is not a question of "can, or can not", but a question of "when". So, no need for your to urge us, needless to say send us an invitation.


I´m afraid what you seek is not here in this thread.

if you look for modern destroyers, ICBM, warplanes or aircraft carriers you may go to Russia, US, India or China sections. this thread is not about Made in Vietnam weapons. it is about telling things how it is. what happens in the army and its relation to the world.

a patriotic Vietnamese should rather think of how to pay more taxes to government instead spending time on PDF?
I assume you are the exception. you spend time to promote CCP propaganda, a form of paying taxes?


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I´m afraid what you seek is not here in this thread.
> 
> if you look for modern destroyers, ICBM, warplanes or aircraft carriers you may go to Russia, US, India or China sections. this thread is not about Made in Vietnam weapons. it is about telling things how it is. what happens in the army and its relation to the world.
> 
> a patriotic Vietnamese should rather think of how to pay more taxes to government instead spending time on PDF?
> I assume you are the exception. you spend time to promote CCP propaganda, a form of paying taxes?



thanks for raising the tax question to me.

I'm a hard-working guy, therefore I could pay ~$ 2,000 taxes to the government every MONTH. That's why I always feel thrilled to see the military technology achievements of China. Because I contributed my personal part to it.

$ 2,000 tax a month is a tiny amount to China, but it is indeed the best that I could do for my country. I'm nothing but one out of 1.4 billion to my country. Therefore I'm very happy that I could do my part to my beloved China.

A great country is nothing but the sum of the hard work and tax payments of each of its individual citizens. Agree?


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> thanks for raising the tax question to me.
> 
> I'm a hard-working guy, therefore I could pay ~$ 2,000 taxes to the government every MONTH. That's why I always feel thrilled to see the military technology achievements of China. Because I contributed my personal part to it.
> 
> $ 2,000 tax a month is a tiny amount to China, but it is indeed the best that I could do for my country. I'm nothing but one out of 1.4 billion to my country. Therefore I'm very happy that I could do my part to my beloved China.
> 
> A great country is nothing but the sum of the hard work and tax payments of each of its individual citizens. Agree?


China is proud of you.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> this thread is not about Made in Vietnam weapons.



this thread is named as *Vietnam Military News & Discussion, *therefore I'm very surprised to see that an active member of this thread now told me this is not the right place to looking for information about made in Vietnam weapons. 

Could you pls kindly direct me to the right thread? many many thanks!



Viet said:


> China is proud of you.


Sure. I'm also very proud to be part of China.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> this thread is named as *Vietnam Military News & Discussion, *therefore I'm very surprised to see that an active member of this thread now told me this is not the right place to looking for information about made in Vietnam weapons.
> 
> Could you pls kindly direct me to the right thread? many many thanks!
> 
> 
> Sure. I'm also very proud to be part of China.


I must disappoint you as I have no clue where you can get the latest info about Made in VN weapons.
how about this: you send an inquiry to Vietnam Army Headquarter, asking the source directly?

here is the address:
Vietnam People´s Army, the Headquarters
7 Nguyen Tri Phuong Street
Hanoi


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I must disappoint you as I have no clue where you can get the latest info about Made in VN weapons.
> how about this: you send an inquiry to Vietnam Army Headquarter, asking the source directly?
> 
> here is the address:
> Vietnam People´s Army, the Headquarters
> 7 Nguyen Tri Phuong Street
> Hanoi



Thanks for your great tips!

Feel sorry for you, because even a patriotic Vietnamese doesn't know where to get the update for information of Made-in-Vietnam weapons. I think VN army must be doing a superb job on keeping secrets! A great role model to China, Russia and U.S.!


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Thanks for your great tips!
> 
> Feel sorry for you, because even a patriotic Vietnamese doesn't know where to get the update for information of Made-in-Vietnam weapons. I think VN army must be doing a superb job on keeping secrets! A great role model to China, Russia and U.S.!


You are welcome my chinese friend. Not too sure if we are a model for you. I don't think so.

Wanting to give you a tip: if you contact the people from the army, avoid saying you are from China (you can be suspected as a Chinese spy), saying you are from Japan, a nihonjin, admiring Vietnam military technology. Pls find out if our army has destroyers under development. I am a fan of US Aegis destroyer, you know.

Good luck!


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> You are welcome my chinese friend. Not too sure if we are a model for you. I don't think so.
> 
> Wanting to give you a tip: if you contact the people from the army, avoid saying you are from China (you can be suspected as a Chinese spy), saying you are from Japan, a nihonjin, admiring Vietnam military technology. Pls find out if our army has destroyers under development. I am a fan of US Aegis destroyer, you know.
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks for your kind advice. But I'm an honest man, and pretend to be a Japanese will make me feel uncomfortable. So I will just tell the VN army that I'm a Chinese with interests in Made-in-Vietnam weapons. And writing them the letter is a kind advice from my Vietnamese friend @Viet 

Glad to hear that you are a fan of Aegis destroyer. I'm also a fan of it! But US is too far away to Vietnam, why not shift your passion to the Chinese Aegis destroyers? Wanna to share you a satellite picture of a shipyard in Shanghai: six Aegis destroyers (052Dx5, 052cx1)are under construction simultaneously! Hope you like the picture.

Pls don't challenge me that I'm derailing the topic. I just want to entertain your interests on Aegis destroyers!


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## vtnsx




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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> Yes, I agree that let's make the conversation in a rational and polite way. I'll stop using the word like stupid, meanwhile, could you plz. urge other VN PDFer on this thread stop using the insult tone like "crawl back into the shitty hole that you called home"? Agree?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. Let me make a quick summary of your long message:
> 
> 
> you believe the the infantry units could contribute to VN for a victory against China. The detailed approaches include: a) deploy a big amount of manpower on the islands to defend the attack; b) send a large infantry unit to attack 1 or 2 Chinese islands; c) shoot down the Chinese fighters via portable missiles; d) attack Yunnan or Guangxi of China
> you believe Vietnam will bring a big casualty to China, which will make the one-child society hard to bear
> you believe Vietnam is 10years behind China in terms of military industry capability, but Vietnam is now quickly catching up.
> 
> Now I will try to address each of the points that you put:
> *1-a: deploy a big amount of manpower on the islands to defend the attack. *
> I'm not sure about the exact size of the VN controlled islands in the South China Sea. But even the largest island that you controlled won't be larger than 1km2, or 1000m x 1000m. You could put as many soldiers as you want on the tiny island, but the problem here is:
> - an ultra high infantry density will cause horrible casualty to Vietnam. Just imagine how many people a 250kg aerial bomb could kill if it hits a big crowds
> - how could you feed these units in war time? All the necessary supplies, even water, needs to be shipped from the land to the islands. This won't be an issue in peaceful time. But now we are talking about war time, how could you guarantee the safety of your supply lines? You really think you could get the command of the sea in war time?
> 
> *1-b: send a large infantry unit to attack 1 or 2 Chinese islands*
> this is again a question of command of the sea. Could you get it from the PLA Navy and the PLA Airforce?
> 
> *1-c: shoot down the Chinese fighters via portable missiles*
> I don't deny the possibility fully. But the situation on the small islands is completely different to the USSR/Afghanistan war. The massive size of Afghanistan, as well as its mountainous terrain leaves USSR no other choice but to send its helicopters or fixed-wings planes to fly very low and make the attack within the visual range. The USSR pilots have no ideas where the threaten is, maybe from the bottom, or from the right side, or the left side, or even from the above (e.g. when the plane/helicopter is flying at the bottom of the canyon).
> 
> But this is completely not the case for a battle on a small island! We have plenty of long-range missiles to attack the island; the Chinese pilots also don't need to worry about a sudden attack from nowhere, all they need to focus is the small island (1000m x 1000m)!
> 
> *1-d: attack Yunnan or Guangxi of China*
> I said on this thread again and again that we don't have any interests in the VN land. But that doesn't mean our ground units in Guangxi or Yunnan will be in vacation during the war time. They will be in full preparation for any land assaults from Vietnam. What I want to remind you is that, if the battle concentrates on the sea and the islands alone, this is still a regional conflict that within control. At least the VN cities could be in safety. But if any land assaults made by Vietnam, we will do an immediate revenge. Even Hanoi will be in extreme danger. We could only guarantee the safety of the tomb of Uncle Ho, because we respect him fully as we respect Mao.
> 
> *2. You believe Vietnam will bring a big casualty to China, which will make the one-child society hard to bear*
> I don't expect a zero-death victory. That is impossible. But it doesn't mean Vietnam could make a big casualty to China. Could you get the command of the air? the command of the sea? If you don't have any, how could you make a big casualty to China?
> 
> One child policy brings us huge benefits, but also with many social problems. The affordability of war casualty is one of it. But that doesn't mean we thereof become vulnerable. In especially for a war that gaining back the islands or the sea that belonging to us!
> 
> BYW, it is too risky to place the victory bet on the so called "mentally vulnerable" of your opponent.
> 
> *3. you believe Vietnam is 10years behind China in terms of military industry capability. *
> 10 year gap means theoretically that Vietnam should be capable of the things we did in 2004 or 2005. We built our own 052C class destroyers in 2005. Do you mean that Vietnam is capable of this today? We built our own J10 in 1990s', so there must be many VN J10 in service now! Am I right? If J10 is still too complicated for you today, how about MIG21? We built J7 in 1960s', is Vietnam capable of making its own MIG21 today? Tell me your answer! Can, or cannot?
> 
> There is nothing more dangerous than underestimate your opponent, in particular it is a much stronger guy than you. But now I do have the feeling that some VN PDFers on this thread have such tendency. Some one said the defence spending ratio is China 10 vs Vietnam 1, but in fact it is 50 vs 1; now you said VN is 10 years behind China for military industry, but in fact it is at least 40 or 50 years gap. And the big spending of China is enlarging the gap constantly. Even if one day VN achieves China's capability today, how far China could go?
> 
> Finally, you couldn't stop me believe China could get back all the islands on the South China Sea. I believe this just like I believe Brazil could beat China easily in a football match. The capability gap is so huge! No matter how hard our football players perform, there won't be other outcome for a CN vs BR football game.
> 
> I know VN wants to beat us eagerly. There exists no short cut, but to work harder for more taxes payment and stronger domestic manufacturing industry!




It hard to try discuss with someone who doesn't have any military background and his only knowledge come for internet and books, but I will try. I try to be very rational and neutral, because I don't really care who gotta take that hot potato Spratley.

1. I never say anything about putting troop on those tiny islands, it's too small. Those garrisons on those tiny islands are for purely symbolic and politic purposes. But I believe that VPA submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters can give a nice and honorable fight.

2. PLA cant be everywhere and have a heavy military presence in every corner of the South China sea. There would certainly a weak spot somewhere . And don't try to put that aircraft carrier in action in Spratley, it wont last long.

3. About Afghanistan, Soviet use helicopters (transport & gunship) and planes. Choppers fly really low to supply or transport troops(targeting them when they takeoff or landing was a easy) and planes fly was too high and only lower down to launch their load. You are in a mountain or in a canoe with MANPAD, the pilot in the plane cant see you, he's thousand meters above you. Like I say above, those tiny islands are not occupy for defense purposes.

4. China- Vietnam border is long and mountainous. Commando raids is very plausible, I believe that if VietNam poke China enough to make her mad and send PLA for an invasion then China fall in the trap of Vietnam.s strategy..Make a small conflict into a larger one. If you think PLA will have a nice walk to Ha Noi, then PLA would need at least 500 000 troops for that walk. And Viet Nam have being getting the VPA ready for that scenario for the last 36 years.

5. About casualty, VietNam will never attack China, but the other way is a possibility .the country who is defending can always take a higher casualties toll in the name of patriotism. So it all come down to how long the Chinese government(in a scenario he start the conflict) will have the support of the people. The Chinese population will certainly accept a short and small scale conflict in Spratley but what happen if VPA do cross border attacks and PLA decide to enter into Viet Nam. Vietnamese government have all the interest to drag PLA into Viet Nam so that the whole world can see who is the aggressor and then have the sympathy of the world. Would Chinese population accept the casualties toll of the invasion of Viet Nam?

6. Vietnam produce already infantry weapons, canons,drones, night vision, ships, missiles...ect. So why saying Viet Nam is 40-50 years behind when they have a respectable weapon industry. Viet Nam would never produce stealth fighters because why invest money and time research for 200-300 planes you need. Buying them is cheaper. For a superpower like China, it's a must to produce hightech weapons because she need in great numbers and it's prestigious to have other countries using them. The best solution for Viet Nam is to have technology transfer by buying licenses. VPA already start producing a lot of nice weapons under licenses. Are you going to say Canada and Australia are behind China because they don't produce missiles and jetfighter? They just don't need in great numbers, that's why buying is cheaper. Most countries can produce any weapons, just give them the licenses.

7. So China would risk the economic and politic relations with all the countries in the regions for the Spratley islands. China would also don't care about all the sanctions that come with the take over and the impact on relations with all other countries in world. PLA would just invade and kick out the Pinoys, the Viets, Malaysian, Taiwanese out and tomorrow is a new day without reaction from the world. Thank to China aggressive way, all the countries in the region invest heavily in navy and airforce lately. What was suppose to be easy a few years ago look a little bit tougher and tougher in the future because everyone will be equipped with the same high tech weapon (jets, subs, missiles, ships....) but PLA will have the edge on numbers.

By the way, I live in Canada and most people here try to avoid paying taxes because people are feed up with mismanagement of their taxes money. And taxes keep going up and government services is lesser and lesser by years. I respect your patriotism but you starting to have a superiority complex toward everybody who is not a PLA supporters. Just like the Japanese during WW2, thinking they are a superior race with their imperial army invading whatever they want and considering Chinese and other Asian people like sub-humans. Like I told you, I'm analyzing everything in rational and neutral way and I just don't care what happen because the outcome won't make me any richer. I think the best and less expensive way for China is negotiation between countries, China would certainly take a big piece of cake instead of going around bullying and may lose it all, because all the competitors (Japan, USA and Western countries) of China will gladly help Viet Nam and others with high tech weapons and aids.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> It hard to try discuss with someone who doesn't have any military background and his only knowledge come for internet and books, but I will try. I try to be very rational and neutral, because I don't really care who gotta take that hot potato Spratley.
> 
> 1. I never say anything about putting troop on those tiny islands, it's too small. Those garrisons on those tiny islands are for purely symbolic and politic purposes. But I believe that VPA submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters can give a nice and honorable fight.
> 
> 2. PLA cant be everywhere and have a heavy military presence in every corner of the South China sea. There would certainly a weak spot somewhere . And don't try to put that aircraft carrier in action in Spratley, it wont last long.
> 
> 3. About Afghanistan, Soviet use helicopters (transport & gunship) and planes. Choppers fly really low to supply or transport troops(targeting them when they takeoff or landing was a easy) and planes fly was too high and only lower down to launch their load. You are in a mountain or in a canoe with MANPAD, the pilot in the plane cant see you, he's thousand meters above you. Like I say above, those tiny islands are not occupy for defense purposes.
> 
> 4. China- Vietnam border is long and mountainous. Commando raids is very plausible, I believe that if VietNam poke China enough to make PLA try an invasion then China fall in the trap of Vietnam.s strategy..Make a small conflict into a larger one. If you think PLA will have a nice walk to Ha Noi, then PLA would need at least 500 000 troops for that walk. And Viet Nam have being getting the VPA ready for that scenario for the last 36 years.
> 
> 5. About casualty, VietNam will never attack China, but the other way is a possibility .the country who is defending can always take a higher casualties toll in the name of patriotism. So it all come down to how long the Chinese government(in a scenario he start the conflict) will have the support of the people. The Chinese population will certainly accept a short and small scale conflict in Spratley but what happen if VPA do cross border attacks and PLA decide to enter into Viet Nam. Vietnamese government have all the interest to drag PLA into Viet Nam so that the whole world can see who is the aggressor and then have the sympathy of the world. Would Chinese population accept the casualties toll of the invasion of Viet Nam?
> 
> 6. Vietnam produce already infantry weapons, canons,drones, night vision, ships, missiles...ect. So why saying Viet Nam is 40-50 years behind when they have a respectable weapon industry. Viet Nam would never produce stealth fighters because why invest money and time research for 200-300 planes you need. Buying them is cheaper. For a superpower like China, it's a must to produce hightech weapons because she need in great numbers and it's prestigious to have other countries using them. The best solution for Viet Nam is to have technology transfer by buying licenses. VPA already start producing a lot of nice weapons under licenses. Are you going to say Canada and Australia are behind China because they don't produce missiles and jetfighter? They just don't need in great numbers, that's why buying is cheaper. Most countries can produce any weapons, just give them the licenses.
> 
> 7. So China would risk the economic and politic relations with all the countries in the regions for the Spratley islands. China would also don't care about all the sanctions that come with the take over and the impact on relations with all other countries in world. PLA would just invade and kick out the Pinoys, the Viets, Malaysian, Taiwanese out and tomorrow is a new day without reaction from the world. Thank to China aggressive way, all the countries in the region invest heavily in navy and airforce lately. What was suppose to be easy a few years ago look a little bit tougher and tougher in the future because everyone will be equipped with the same high tech weapon (jets, subs, missiles, ships....) but PLA will have the edge on numbers.
> 
> By the way, I live in Canada and most people here try to avoid paying taxes because people are feed up with mismanagement of their taxes money. And taxes keep going up and government services is lesser and lesser by years. I respect your patriotism but you starting to have a superiority complex toward everybody who is not a PLA supporters. Just like the Japanese during WW2, thinking they are a superior race with their imperial army invading whatever they want and considering Chinese and other Asian people like sub-humans. Like I told you, I'm analyzing everything in rational and neutral way and I just don't care what happen because the outcome won't make me any richer.




I respect your infantry service experience fully. But pls stop selling it here. Your experience may be helpful to WW2 or the 1979 war, but what we are talking about now is a modern air/sea battle in 2015 onward. That is why Vietnam Army is so reluctant to put the investment on its ground units, but to invest most of its budget on air or sea units.

Why do you think an assault on the VN land necessarily needs 500,000 troops to walk into Vietnam? Do you live in 2015 or 1945? I even don't want to mention the things like cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air-to-land missiles, these stuff are obviously too complicated to an outdated infantry veteran. Lets just talk about land artillery, which should be the closet area to you. Do you have any clue about the range of the monster below? Do you have any idea about its accuracy? Hanoi is nothing but a medium-size city that 140km to the China-Vietnam border













The new VN equipment you mentioned, submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters, they seem to be power stuff in peaceful time. But that is not the case in war time!! A modern war today is no longer the war of "one piece of weapon vs. another piece of weapon", it is a "System vs. System" war. Take VN fighter vs. CN ship case as an example:

You need to know where the Chinese ship is! That's actually a very very difficult job! The globe is not flat, it is a sphere! This means the ground-based radar is very much short eye-sighted for a water target. You may argue that Vietnam holds some islands on the South China sea, and the radar stations on these islands could extend the search distance of Vietnam. That's true at peaceful time; but now we are talking about war! these radar stations are very vulnerable at war times; they are the easiest targets for the China Air Force, or the 2nd Artillery.
Satellite is the best way to get the initial / rough location information of the CN ships. But does Vietnam has the satellite capability now? No. It needs time, and needs tons of investment. But even if you get it one day, a cruel fact to you is that China already owns strong anti-satellite capabilities. How could you guarantee the safety of your satellite in war times?
Even if you get the location information of the ships via satellite, you need to make sure that you could be updated with the location information constantly, because the Chinese fleet is moving constantly! The best way for this job is to use AWACS system. Because the satellite could only stay above a specific area for a short period of time. But do you have AWACS system now? No. It needs time again, and also tons of investment. Even if you have it, AWACS system itself is very vulnerable. You need to make sure such a high-value asset would not be shot down by J10, J11, J15, J16, or J20. There must be a competition among the Chinese pilots for such a target!
Lets assume that your satellite is not shot down by China, your AWACS is also in a safe situation. Now you find that the Chinese fleet is in a good area for your fighter. So the fighter takes off.
Wait, a precondition for fighters taking off is that the airport hasn't been bombed by the Chinese bombers (H6K) or cruise missiles (DF10), or basaltic missiles (DF11/15/16/21) yet, you'd better prey for it.
Now you are lucky enough. The airport is fortunately not be bombed by China yet. So the fighters take off, and your AWACS guides your fighters to get closer and closer to the Chinese fleet. But how could you make sure the safety of your fighters on the air? The island construction done by China means China could easily deploy fighters to the South China Sea to protect the Chinese fleet. Do you have full confidence about the survival of your fighters?
Ok, maybe your fighter is blessed by the god. So they successfully enter the range for launching air-to-ship missiles. But the Chinese ships are not naked. The 052D, 052C, or even 054A, they are designed for such tasks. I just put a picture of a Shanghai-based shipyard on this thread. There are six Aegis warships (5x 052D, 1x 052C) under construction simultaneously! Could you understand the implication behind it??

Canada and Australia are of course far way behind China in terms of either military industry, or the overall manufacturing industry capability. I don't know why you feel surprised on this. A modern military industry is the reflection of a strong manufacturing sector. The strengthen of US military industry not only comes from Lockheed Martin, but also coming from none-military companies like GM, Ford or Caterpillar. The strength of Germany comes from Daimler or Siemens as well. The strength of China is just the same, Sany, XCMG, Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, FAW Jiefang, CNR, CSR, Huawei, it is actually these none-military companies that pave the road to a strong military industry! But for Canada or Australia, could you pls name a few manufacturing companies that are with global leadership positions?

In terms of tax payment, plz don't use the example of a much developed country like Canada. Canada has almost zero military pressure, it owns great infrastructures, great medical system, great education system. But does Vietnam has any of the these points? If the answer is NO, does Vietnam has any solution other than tax collections to deal will all these tough points??

Reactions: Like Like:
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## TheConquerer

What is this?


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> Are those missiles are reliable? Please stop scaring people, you start to look like those Americans thinking they can scare and beat everyone before the meltdown of Iraq and Afghanistan. PLA have zero combat experience and it will be a hell of mess to see PLA in real combat action



Why don't you say all the Chinese stuff are paper-made?

We are not talking about the war to conquer a country fully!! I mentioned this again and again. We are talking about some small islands on the sea!! If US only wants to get some islands from Iraq, can anyone stop it?

PLA is short of real combat experience. But Is Vietnam owning rich experience in a modern air and sea war?


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> I respect your infantry service experience fully. But pls stop selling it here. Your experience may be helpful to WW2 or the 1979 war, but what we are talking about now is a modern air/sea battle in 2015 onward. That is why Vietnam Army is so reluctant to put the investment on its ground units, but to invest most of its budget on air or sea units.
> 
> Why do you think an assault on the VN land necessarily needs 500,000 troops to walk into Vietnam? Do you live in 2015 or 1945? I even don't want to mention the things like cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air-to-land missiles, these stuff are obviously too complicated to an outdated infantry veteran. Lets just talk about land artillery, which should be the closet area to you. Do you have any clue about the range of the monster below? Do you have any idea about its accuracy? Hanoi is nothing but a medium-size city that 140km to the China-Vietnam border
> 
> View attachment 270553
> View attachment 270555
> View attachment 270564
> 
> 
> 
> The new VN equipment you mentioned, submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters, they seem to be power stuff in peaceful time. But that is not the case in war time!! A modern war today is no longer the war of "one piece of weapon vs. another piece of weapon", it is a "System vs. System" war. Take VN fighter vs. CN ship case as an example:
> 
> You need to know where the Chinese ship is! That's actually a very very difficult job! The globe is not flat, it is a sphere! This means the ground-based radar is very much short eye-sighted for a water target. You may argue that Vietnam holds some islands on the South China sea, and the radar stations on these islands could extend the search distance of Vietnam. That's true at peaceful time; but now we are talking about war! these radar stations are very vulnerable at war times; they are the easiest targets for the China Air Force, or the 2nd Artillery.
> Satellite is the best way to get the initial / rough location information of the CN ships. But does Vietnam has the satellite capability now? No. It needs time, and needs tons of investment. But even if you get it one day, a cruel fact to you is that China already owns strong anti-satellite capabilities. How could you guarantee the safety of your satellite in war times?
> Even if you get the location information of the ships via satellite, you need to make sure that you could be updated with the location information constantly, because the Chinese fleet is moving constantly! The best way for this job is to use AWACS system. Because the satellite could only stay above a specific area for a short period of time. But do you have AWACS system now? No. It needs time again, and also tons of investment. Even if you have it, AWACS system itself is very vulnerable. You need to make sure such a high-value asset would not be shot down by J10, J11, J15, J16, or J20. There must be a competition among the Chinese pilots for such a target!
> Lets assume that your satellite is not shot down by China, your AWACS is also in a safe situation. Now you find that the Chinese fleet is in a good area for your fighter. So the fighter takes off.
> Wait, a precondition for fighters taking off is that the airport hasn't been bombed by the Chinese bombers (H6K) or cruise missiles (DF10), or basaltic missiles (DF11/15/16/21) yet, you'd better prey for it.
> Now you are lucky enough. The airport is fortunately not be bombed by China yet. So the fighters take off, and your AWACS guides your fighters to get closer and closer to the Chinese fleet. But how could you make sure the safety of your fighters on the air? The island construction done by China means China could easily deploy fighters to the South China Sea to protect the Chinese fleet. Do you have full confidence about the survival of your fighters?
> Ok, maybe your fighter is blessed by the god. So they successfully enter the range for launching air-to-ship missiles. But the Chinese ships are not naked. The 052D, 052C, or even 054A, they are designed for such tasks. I just put a picture of a Shanghai-based shipyard on this thread. There are six Aegis warships (5x 052D, 1x 052C) under construction simultaneously! Could you understand the implication behind it??
> 
> Canada and Australia are of course far way behind China in terms of either military industry, or the overall manufacturing industry capability. I don't know why you feel surprised on this. A modern military industry is the reflection of a strong manufacturing sector. The strengthen of US military industry not only comes from Lockheed Martin, but also coming from none-military companies like GM, Ford or Caterpillar. The strength of Germany comes from Daimler or Siemens as well. The strength of China is just the same, Sany, XCMG, Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, FAW Jiefang, CNR, CSR, Huawei, it is actually these none-military companies that pave the road to a strong military industry! But for Canada or Australia, could you pls name a few manufacturing companies that are with global leadership positions?
> 
> In terms of tax payment, plz don't use the example of a much developed country like Canada. Canada has almost zero military pressure, it owns great infrastructures, great medical system, great education system. But does Vietnam has any of the these points? If the answer is NO, does Vietnam has any solution other than tax collections to deal will all these tough points??


You wasting my time with your theories that even PLA (with zero combat experience try to apply). Let say that USA and Japanese will gladly give the info on PLA positions in case of conflict


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> You wasting my time with your theories that even PLA (with zero combat experience try to apply). Let say that USA and Japanese will gladly give the info on PLA positions in case of conflict



Vietnam must been rich in experience of a high-tech sea/air battle!!


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> Why don't you say all the Chinese stuff are paper-made?
> 
> We are not talking about the war to conquer a country fully!! I mentioned this again and again. We are talking about some small islands on the sea!! If US only wants to get some islands from Iraq, can anyone stop it?
> 
> PLA is short of real combat experience. But Is Vietnam owning rich experience in a modern air and sea war?


You said that Ha Noi will be in danger from PLA. So I assume a partial invasion


GS Zhou said:


> Vietnam must been rich in experience of a high-tech sea/air battle!!


Please re-read my post...Let say that USA and Japanese will gladly give the info on PLA positions in case of conflict

Source: Vietnam Military News & Discussion | Page 343


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## cnleio

GS Zhou said:


> Why don't you say all the Chinese stuff are paper-made?
> 
> We are not talking about the war to conquer a country fully!! I mentioned this again and again. We are talking about some small islands on the sea!! If US only wants to get some islands from Iraq, can anyone stop it?
> 
> PLA is short of real combat experience. But Is Vietnam owning rich experience in a modern air and sea war?


See, a complex question is here still aftertaste the memory of 1960s Vietnam War and 50-year-ago experience ... and call all they don't know is the 'Paper Tiger' or 'unreliable' ... simply speaking, they just thinking others as same level & poor as them and deny the truth behind others.


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> You said that Ha Noi will be in danger from PLA. I



Any thing wrong to this comment? Hanoi is just 140km far away from the border. You mean 140km is a formidable gap to the Chinese missiles, bombers, fighters, or the long-range rocket systems that I just put in this thread?


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> I respect your infantry service experience fully. But pls stop selling it here. Your experience may be helpful to WW2 or the 1979 war, but what we are talking about now is a modern air/sea battle in 2015 onward. That is why Vietnam Army is so reluctant to put the investment on its ground units, but to invest most of its budget on air or sea units.
> 
> Why do you think an assault on the VN land necessarily needs 500,000 troops to walk into Vietnam? Do you live in 2015 or 1945? I even don't want to mention the things like cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air-to-land missiles, these stuff are obviously too complicated to an outdated infantry veteran. Lets just talk about land artillery, which should be the closet area to you. Do you have any clue about the range of the monster below? Do you have any idea about its accuracy? Hanoi is nothing but a medium-size city that 140km to the China-Vietnam border
> 
> View attachment 270553
> View attachment 270555
> View attachment 270564
> 
> 
> 
> The new VN equipment you mentioned, submarines, fast attack ships,coastal anti-ships missiles and fighters, they seem to be power stuff in peaceful time. But that is not the case in war time!! A modern war today is no longer the war of "one piece of weapon vs. another piece of weapon", it is a "System vs. System" war. Take VN fighter vs. CN ship case as an example:
> 
> You need to know where the Chinese ship is! That's actually a very very difficult job! The globe is not flat, it is a sphere! This means the ground-based radar is very much short eye-sighted for a water target. You may argue that Vietnam holds some islands on the South China sea, and the radar stations on these islands could extend the search distance of Vietnam. That's true at peaceful time; but now we are talking about war! these radar stations are very vulnerable at war times; they are the easiest targets for the China Air Force, or the 2nd Artillery.
> Satellite is the best way to get the initial / rough location information of the CN ships. But does Vietnam has the satellite capability now? No. It needs time, and needs tons of investment. But even if you get it one day, a cruel fact to you is that China already owns strong anti-satellite capabilities. How could you guarantee the safety of your satellite in war times?
> Even if you get the location information of the ships via satellite, you need to make sure that you could be updated with the location information constantly, because the Chinese fleet is moving constantly! The best way for this job is to use AWACS system. Because the satellite could only stay above a specific area for a short period of time. But do you have AWACS system now? No. It needs time again, and also tons of investment. Even if you have it, AWACS system itself is very vulnerable. You need to make sure such a high-value asset would not be shot down by J10, J11, J15, J16, or J20. There must be a competition among the Chinese pilots for such a target!
> Lets assume that your satellite is not shot down by China, your AWACS is also in a safe situation. Now you find that the Chinese fleet is in a good area for your fighter. So the fighter takes off.
> Wait, a precondition for fighters taking off is that the airport hasn't been bombed by the Chinese bombers (H6K) or cruise missiles (DF10), or basaltic missiles (DF11/15/16/21) yet, you'd better prey for it.
> Now you are lucky enough. The airport is fortunately not be bombed by China yet. So the fighters take off, and your AWACS guides your fighters to get closer and closer to the Chinese fleet. But how could you make sure the safety of your fighters on the air? The island construction done by China means China could easily deploy fighters to the South China Sea to protect the Chinese fleet. Do you have full confidence about the survival of your fighters?
> Ok, maybe your fighter is blessed by the god. So they successfully enter the range for launching air-to-ship missiles. But the Chinese ships are not naked. The 052D, 052C, or even 054A, they are designed for such tasks. I just put a picture of a Shanghai-based shipyard on this thread. There are six Aegis warships (5x 052D, 1x 052C) under construction simultaneously! Could you understand the implication behind it??
> 
> Canada and Australia are of course far way behind China in terms of either military industry, or the overall manufacturing industry capability. I don't know why you feel surprised on this. A modern military industry is the reflection of a strong manufacturing sector. The strengthen of US military industry not only comes from Lockheed Martin, but also coming from none-military companies like GM, Ford or Caterpillar. The strength of Germany comes from Daimler or Siemens as well. The strength of China is just the same, Sany, XCMG, Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, FAW Jiefang, CNR, CSR, Huawei, it is actually these none-military companies that pave the road to a strong military industry! But for Canada or Australia, could you pls name a few manufacturing companies that are with global leadership positions?
> 
> In terms of tax payment, plz don't use the example of a much developed country like Canada. Canada has almost zero military pressure, it owns great infrastructures, great medical system, great education system. But does Vietnam has any of the these points? If the answer is NO, does Vietnam has any solution other than tax collections to deal will all these tough points??


With all those artillery and missiles pics, you applying the same game plan as the american. Massive bombardement and carpet of bombs, The American did that during the Viet Nam war, for 8 years and the total amount of bombs was 3-4 times of all the bombs use by all armies altogether during ww2 ( 1 Hiroshima bomb a week for 8 years).

Today, Viet Nam have the artillery and missiles to attack China in respond as well but in lesser numbers. Nobody is scare of nobody and nobody should allow someone attack you without giving a honorable fight. So Please, let allow the VPA fight for the honor even if they lose


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> With all those artillery and missiles pics, you applying the same game plan as the american. Massive bombardement and carpet of bombs, The American did that during the Viet Nam war, for 8 years and the total amount of bombs was 3-4 times of all the bombs use by all armies altogether during ww2 ( 1 Hiroshima bomb a week for 8 years).
> 
> Today, Viet Nam have the artillery and missiles to attack China in respond as well but in lesser numbers. Nobody is scare of nobody and nobody should allow someone attack you without giving a honorable fight. So Please, let allow the VPA fight for the honor even if they lose



To your questions on the Vietnam war:

You get the generous support from China and USSR. The huge supplies, be it radar, missiles, tanks, rifles, planes, artillaries were sent to Vietnam constantly by China. Do you expect such aid in the future? Where would you get the supplies? Laos? Cambodia? or Thailand?
The target of US was to conquer Vietnam fully!! This is NOT what we want! If US just wants to get some islands on the sea, could you stop it?


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## Mokaman

cnleio said:


> See, a complex question is here still aftertaste the memory of 1960s Vietnam War and 50-year-ago experience ... and call all they don't know is the 'Paper Tiger' or 'unreliable' ... simply speaking, they just thinking others as same level & poor as them and deny the truth behind others.



If you want to insert yourself in this discussion, please read other posts before. I always say China is a super power with super economy , super population with super ambitions. Vietnam is just a midsize country with midsize economy midsize population with average ambitions. The facts are there and nobody denied it. But just stop trying to try to bully and thinking other nations will put on their knees because PLA trying to impress the world with their military power. Everyone have honor and face, especially military guys and no one will give up without a fight in even in a certain defeat...That is a fact


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> thinking other nations will put on their knees because PLA trying to impress the world with their military power


we never said we want any countries put on their knees, we also don't have the interests to impress the world. We have no interest to get your land, or your people. All that we want is to get back the small islands that belonging to us. These islands, or any islands within the Nine-Dashed-line, belong to us!


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> To your questions on the Vietnam war:
> 
> You get the generous support from China and USSR. The huge supplies, be it radar, missiles, tanks, rifles, planes, artillaries were sent to Vietnam constantly by China. Do you expect such aid in the future? Where would you get the supplies? Laos? Cambodia? or Thailand?
> The target of US was to conquer Vietnam fully!! This is NOT what we want! If US just wants to get some islands on the sea, could you stop it?


Large scale war is over. Most likely short and isolated area. Viet Nam already have a defense industry for all the basics need so a short war wont be a problem on supply. VPA have large reserve for a couple years of war for sure

The target of USA during the Viet NAm war was to put North Viet Nam on their knees by bombing them and drag them to peace negotiation. Today, we live in a global economy and politic, big guy cant grab whatever he want anymore without consequences from the rest of the world. If China invade the Spratley, just imagine the economic sanctions and dozens of millions people are lay off due to embargo on exportations of goods, economy slow down and unrest start, how Chinese Communist party and people will react

Source: Vietnam Military News & Discussion | Page 343


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> VPA have large reserve for a couple years of war for sure



Vietnam must have big reserve for basic stuff like food, medicines, rifles, or ammunition. But what we are talking about is a high tech war!! Do you have sufficient reserves for planes, missiles, war ships, or radars?



Mokaman said:


> just imagine the economic sanctions and dozens of millions people are lay off due to embargo on exportations of goods, economy slow down and unrest start, how Chinese Communist party and people will react



Sanction is a possible scenario. And that is why we need Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But why you have so strong confidence that western world is willing to sacrifice their own economic interests with China, simply because of Vietnam? What they could get in-exchange from Vietnam? Any bets you could put on the negotiation table? Or you think western countries are all charities that put Vietnam's interests as the top priority?


----------



## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> we never said we want any countries put on their knees, we also don't have the interests to impress the world. We have no interest to get your land, or your people. All that we want is to get back the small islands that belonging to us. These islands, or any islands within the Nine-Dashed-line, belong to us!


Like I told you before, I dont really care who gonna take that hot potato Spratly... If you think China can take it why not taking now? I will be so easy. Of course China not going to move because it fear the world reaction


GS Zhou said:


> Vietnam must have big reserve for basic stuff like food, medicines, rifles, or ammunition. But what we are talking about is a high tech war!! Do you have sufficient reserves for planes, missiles, war ships, or radars?
> 
> 
> 
> Sanction is a possible scenario. And that is why we need Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But why you think western world is willing to sacrifice their own economic interests with China, simply because of Vietnam? What they could get in-exchange from Vietnam? Any bets you could put on the negotiation table? Or you think western countries are all charities that put Vietnam's interests as the top priority?



Are PLA have enough ships and manpower to embargo Viet Nam? Why need hi tech reserve, I will just dig a hole and wait until you waste all your stuffs. Spratley is not just Viet Nam, it also Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei


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## Aqsuperman

ASU-85 for Airborne operation , retired for quite sometime but with the expanding of a VDV-style in Vietnam , shall we expect the appearance of a BMD variant ? :v


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## cnleio

Mokaman said:


> If you want to insert yourself in this discussion, please read other posts before. I always say China is a super power with super economy , super population with super ambitions. Vietnam is just a midsize country with midsize economy midsize population with average ambitions. The facts are there and nobody denied it. But just stop trying to try to bully and thinking other nations will put on their knees because PLA trying to impress the world with their military power. Everyone have honor and face, especially military guys and no one will give up without a fight in even in a certain defeat...That is a fact


Vietnam as the China's neighbor not from yesterday, past 2,000 years always still there ... and ancient China Empire in the world more powerful than today PRC, if China has super ambition during last 2,000 years we(Chinese) had much more time to play game with Vietnamese, but it seems we(Chinese) not as same as the West white did in past 200 years.

So u(Vietnamese) should thanks China as ur neighbor not U.S, American Indian and Mexico. Also should thanks CCP & Mao, without Chinese helps ur Ho Chi Minh might arrested by French before Vietnam War in North Vietnam mountains.


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## Mokaman

cnleio said:


> Vietnam as the China's neighbor not from yesterday, past 2,000 years always still there ... and ancient China Empire in the world more powerful than today PRC, if China has super ambition during last 2,000 years we(Chinese) had much more time to play game with Vietnamese, but it seems we(Chinese) not as same as the West white did in past 200 years.
> 
> So u(Vietnamese) should thanks China as ur neighbor not U.S, American Indian and Mexico. Also should thanks CCP & Mao, without Chinese helps ur Ho Chi Minh might arrested by French before Vietnam War in North Vietnam mountains.


Ok powerful neighbor to let us exist in this world. And of course the ancient army was more powerful than today modern army with nukes. ...blabla,,...Today, China is powerful than never before, with 2nd economy huge educated population and modern army. I admire and respect PLA but it's just guy like you who make PLA look bad by spreading stuffs and bullying people with image and numbers


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> Like I told you before, I dont really care who gonna take that hot potato Spratly... If you think China can take it why not taking now? I will be so easy. Of course China not going to move because it fear the world reaction



The reason that China could become so strong today is not that we use our military force recklessly, but that we concentrate our mind on economic development and manufacturing industry modernization. A great military force is nothing but the byproduct of a prosperous economy plus a strong manufacturing sector. We have our own agenda for our target. So no need to urge us for it.



Mokaman said:


> Are PLA have enough ships and manpower to embargo Viet Nam?


Sounds that Vietnam has two extremely long coast lines that facing with the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea respectively? Could you show me the World Map that you are using??




Mokaman said:


> Why need hi tech reserve, I will just dig a hole and wait until you waste all your stuffs.


If you put all you high tech stuff in the hole, why you spend huge amount of money to get it from foreign countries? Saddam put all his planes in the hole, the planes survived, but the war lost. 








Mokaman said:


> Spratley is not just Viet Nam, it also Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei


If the opponent with the strongest military power was phased out from the South China Sea, a diplomatic negotiations with rest parties will become much easier.


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## cnleio

Mokaman said:


> Ok powerful neighbor to let us exist in this world. And of course the ancient army was more powerful than today modern army with nukes. ...blabla,,...Today, China is powerful than never before, with 2nd economy huge educated population and modern army. I admire and respect PLA but it's just guy like you who make PLA look bad by spreading stuffs and bullying people with image and numbers


Not right ... today PRC is much poor than ancient China Empire, the China Tang /Song /Ming /Qing Empire economy ever seized 1/2, 2/3, 3/5 world economy and gunpowder also from China through 'SilkRoad' into Europe. Today at the same situation in the world compared with other super-power, China not powerful.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Not right ... today PRC is much poor than ancient China Empire, the China *Tang* /Song /Ming /Qing Empire economy ever seized 1/2, 2/3, 3/5 world economy and gunpowder also from China through 'SilkRoad' into Europe. Today at the same situation in the world compared with other super-power, China not powerful.


true, back in times, it was only the Tang that was powerful enough to subjugate Vietnam, crushing all rebellions, intergrating it into the Empire. all chinese dynasties followed after the downfall of the Tang: the Song, the Yuan, the Ming and the Qing failed. yes, despite the huge imbalance of power, the vast differences between China and Vietnam, all chinese armies were not strong enough to accomplish what the Tang succeeded: to take Vietnam back into the Motherland.

but who knows, history always has some surprises. we will see how the current and future China will be doing with the power. If CCP has any similar ambition. I wouldn´t wonder if you chinese would do everything to hinder Vietnam to become too powerful. I just recalled the period when the Ming imposed arms embargo on Vietnam, preventing the transfer of the gunpower technology to Vietnam at all cost.

map of the Tang.


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## Viet

November 11

salut for the President of People´s Republic of China, Xi Jinping. a ceremony reserved for a few Heads of states in the world. welcomed by the VCP Chief. and not all people know it: not the Prime Minister, nor the Defence minister, the VCP boss Nguyễn Phú Trọng is the supreme commander of the Vietnam´s Armed Forces.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Vietnam must been rich in experience of a high-tech sea/air battle!!


thank for the tip. what do you think about this? laser/opto-electronic guided bombs KAB-500, mounted on SU-30 bombers. images for the first time ever released to public. very precise, good against static targets.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> thank for the tip. what do you think about this? laser/opto-electronic guided bombs KAB-500, mounted on SU-30 bombers. images for the first time ever released to public. very precise, good against static targets.



Thanks for the sharing.

To maximize the effects of this hightech stuff, there are couple of preconditions you need to fulfill. So please allow me to ask you some questions.

*Safety of the airport: *before the fighter takes off, you at least need to make sure the airport hasn't been bombed yet, or the damages caused by the bomb has been healed.

*Command of the air: *this is an aerial bomb. So if you want to use it to hit a target at Kunming, you need to fly through the head of Kunming and throw your bomb on top of the city. Before that, you will be challenged by China Air force J10, J11, or even J20. Even if you survived from the Chinese fighters, you still need to face with the ground units for air defense, e.g. the HQ-series missiles, or the flak. You also need to be cautious to the portable missiles used by infantry units, the VN PDFer @Mokaman is a strong advocator of this.  

A comparison between the two pairs: SU30/bomb vs. H6K/cruise missiles, must be interesting. The long-range cruise missiles (>2,000 km) equipped by H6K means that H6K could even launch the missiles on top of Beijing to hit a target at Hanoi. Zero riks for the H6K pilots!

*Information transparency of the battle field: *you obviously don't want to waste your valuable bomb at a normal target. An ideal target for your bomb is some high-value things, like air defense missiles units, radar stations, or command HQs. But the question is that these units are changing their locations constantly. So you definitely need battle field transparency! An ideal way for this is that you have your own satellite on top of the battle field. To achieve a 24/7 transparency, you even need to have 10+, or even 20+satellites! Because these satellites are moving constantly, they could only stay above a particular point of the earth for a short period of time. Do you still remember the MH370 tragedy? To find out the plane, *China changes the orbits of 21 satellites* for day and night research in the South China Sea! But does Vietnam currently has all these necessary hardware for the guided bomb? No. It needs time, and tons of gold. So pay taxes to government.

BTW, want to share you a new toy of China. China recently launched a satellite for taking videos on the orbit. You can click the link below for a short video the CN satellite takes on top of Mexico. Could you understand the military meaning of the video satellite? It means Beijing could even be more clearer about the most recent locations of the VN army units than Hanoi!

There may be a short advertisement before the video, so be a bit patient please.

The new China video satellitte

*Training for the pilots:* training is a must-have even for the most talented pilot. To hit a CN target accurately, the VN pilots need to do real exercises for many rounds! Maybe 10 times? or 20 times? This brings us three questions:

*Bomb inventory: *do you have sufficient bomb inventory to support the heavy training? Or can you make it on your own? If the answer is NO, pls pay taxes to government to enhance the inventory from imports.
*Spare parts inventory: *the more you fly your SU30, the heavier maintenance required, which will lead to heavier consumption of the spare parts. Do you have sufficient spare parts inventory to support the heavy training program? Do you have the capability to produce the parts? For example, the braking pads of the landing gear, a very basic element, could you produce it on your own? Or you have to dependent on imports? If the answer is the latter, pls pay taxes to your government.
*SU30 life cycle: *the Russian fighters, compared to their western peers, e.g. F15, are born with very short life cycle. Take the SU27 China imported from USSR/Russia in 1990s' as an example, its designed lifecycle is just about 2,000 hours. So if you fly the plane 200hours a year, it could only last for 10years! This used to be an extreme headache for China Airforce, but later we conquered it successfully via:
*life cycle enhancement program for the old SU27 fleet. *This is not an easy task. It needs the efforts from both aviation industry and material industry. To make it done, you need to be: a) extremely clear of the design principal of the fighters; b) a guru on fatigue mechanics, otherwise you even couldn't know where the weakest point is; c) a guru on high strength/light weighting material. You need to own all the three points mentioned to launch a successful life cycle enhancement program. Does VN have them now? If the answer is no, VN needs to pay heavily to foreign companies for the program. So, pls pay taxes to your government.

*J11 localization: *compared to the life cycle enhancement of the old fleet, J11 localization is obviously a more fundamental solution! We therefore no longer need to worry about the balance of usage vs. lifecycle. We could fly the birds as heavily as we want! But is Vietnam capable of this? No. So your government needs to pay Russia constantly for the fleet renewal. Again, it is you time for paying taxes!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

Zhou, contrary to some rumours and popular beliefs, I don´t have classifield information. am just a simple poster. this thread, as I once said, is for fanboys or fangirls being interested of VN Military activities, her relation to the world and Vietnam´s history. I may come back later to your questions, but here I want to share with you the recent pictures of the two remaining Kilo Submarines,* Đà Nẵng *and *Bà Rịa-Vũng Tàu*, currently on sea trails in the russian waters, and soon being transfered to our Navy.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Zhou, I want to share with you the recent pictures of the two remaining Kilo Submarines,* Đà Nẵng *and *Bà Rịa-Vũng Tàu*, currently on sea trails in the russian waters, and soon being transfered to our Navy.



thanks for the sharing. But why not answer my questions to your Russian bombs post first?


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> thanks for the sharing. But why not answer my questions to your Russian bombs post first?


ok, about the guidance, you know certainly when dropped in freefall, the laser/opto-electronic bombs are guided by the signals of GPS or ...GLONASS, a russian developed Global Positioning System. the latter right now is said being negotiated with Vietnam. when completed, Russia will build ground stations in Vietnam, we will have direct access to the system. But I think it is unfair to perform direct comparison between Vietnam and China Armies, considering the huge imbalance of power. we still have a long way to go. China enjoys a very long period of peace since end of the World War II, so 70 years, while we just came out more or less since 25 years. that is a span of 45 years of development. not to mention we start by ZERO, because the US-Vietnam war virtually destroyed everything to infrastructures.

you may compare yourself to the United States. you have global ambition, haven´t you?

Russian Glonass welcomed in Vietnam - News VietNamNet


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> ok, about the guidance, you know certainly when dropped in freefall, the laser/opto-electronic bombs are guided by the signals of GPS or ...GLONASS, a russian developed Global Positioning System. the latter right now is said being negotiated with Vietnam. when completed, Russia will build ground stations in Vietnam, we will have direct access to the system. But I think it is unfair to perform direct comparison between Vietnam and China Armies, considering the huge imbalance of power. we still have a long way to go. China enjoys a very long period of peace since end of the World War II, so 70 years, while we just came out more or less since 25 years. that is a span of 45 years of development. not to mention we start by ZERO, because the US-Vietnam war virtually destroyed everything to infrastructures.
> 
> you may compare yourself to the United States. you have global ambition, haven´t you?
> 
> Russian Glonass welcomed in Vietnam - News VietNamNet



Hey man, I'm talking about the satellites that taking pictures! To throw your bomb on the Chinese target, you at least need to know where it is, right? So for example, an air defense unit of China, Monday morning, it was at 10km eastern to Kunming, but maybe the next morning, this unit has been moved to 20km western to Kunming. To hit this target, you need your satellite to update you the most recent location information of the CN unit. Right? But can the navigation satellite, be it American GPS, or Russian Glonass, take pictures for you?

China today is of course lagging behind US in terms of military technology. But the good news to us is that the gap is becoming SMALLER! We are quickly catching up in almost all areas, stealth fighters, long-distance cruiser missiles, Aegis destroyers, Missile Defense Systems, Anti-satellite technologies, nuclear submarines, AWACS, blabla. Take navigation satellite as the example, we already have our own navigation constellation on the orbit! Currently there are 10+ Chinese Beidou satellites on orbit, sufficient enough to cover Asia. And we will have close 30 Beidous in 2020, which will enable us for a GLOBAL coverage.


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> Sounds that Vietnam has two extremely long coast lines that facing with the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea respectively? Could you show me the World Map that you are using??



To embargo Viet Nam, you need to seal off all the borders (occupy Cambodia and Laos), the coastline and the airspace. And be on alert to have the VPA breach here and there... That the map im using. So PLA doesn't have the manpower and equipments to do that, and it's not worth it for China in term of benefits to do that[/QUOTE]



GS Zhou said:


> Hey man, I'm talking about the satellites that taking pictures! To throw your bomb on the Chinese target, you at least need to know where it is, right? So for example, an air defense unit of China, Monday morning, it was at 10km eastern to Kunming, but maybe the next morning, this unit has been moved to 20km western to Kunming. To hit this target, you need your satellite to update you the most recent location information of the CN unit. Right? But can the navigation satellite, be it American GPS, or Russian Glonass, take pictures for you?
> 
> China today is of course lagging behind US in terms of military technology. But the good news to us is that the gap is becoming SMALLER! We are quickly catching up in almost all areas, stealth fighters, long-distance cruiser missiles, Aegis destroyers, Missile Defense Systems, Anti-satellite technologies, nuclear submarines, AWACS, blabla. Take navigation satellite as the example, we already have our own navigation constellation on the orbit! Currently there are 10+ Chinese Beidou satellites on orbit, sufficient enough to cover Asia. And we will have close 30 Beidous in 2020, which will enable us for a GLOBAL coverage.



You don't need all the time a satellite to hit a target. A good recon unit deep inside the enemy territories can do the job of sending gps datas for targeting, good old style work just fine.


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> To embargo Viet Nam, you need to seal off all the borders (occupy Cambodia and Laos), the coastline and the airspace. And be on alert to have the VPA breach here and there... That the map im using. So PLA doesn't have the manpower and equipments to do that, and it's not worth it for China in term of benefits to do that


[/QUOTE]

We are talking about the high-tech stuff transported to Vietnam in war time, e.g. missiles, radars, warships. Given the weight and size, you have no choice but to do the transportation via ships. And you need a well-equipped port as the final destination, because crane is a necessity! 

For Laos and Cambodia, in case one day a war between China and Vietnam happens, which side will they stand? Stand with the winner? or the loser? If you are the top leader of Laos or Cambodia, tell me you choice.


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## Mokaman

Automation of ZU-23, from 5 men crew is now 1 person crew


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> You don't need all the time a satellite to hit a target. A good recon unit deep inside the enemy territories can do the job of sending gps datas for targeting, good old style work just fine.



So you mean the recon unit are all supermen that could always escape the hunts of the Chinese military force?? Right??


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> So you mean the recon unit are all supermen that could always escape the hunts of the Chinese military force?? Right??



You have zero military background, all you know is stuffs from internet and books about hightech stuffs, you know nothing about be operational on the field. Infantry win battles and war. You cant win with only missiles and bombs, ship and planes (it help but it's not decisive... just look at the Americans with the Islamic state, it over 1 and half years of bombing and still bombing). All great armies, including PLA have great special forces that can go deep inside territories and operate for a period of time. Look at the 2 Koreas, Despite the heavily fortified border and coastline, North Korea can send easily teams of special forces inside South Korea and vice versa. Is South China borders is as much heavy guarded as Korea?


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> You have zero military background, all you know is stuffs from internet and books about hightech stuffs, you know nothing about be operational on the field. Infantry win battles and war. You cant win with only missiles and bombs, ship and planes (it help but it's not decisive). All great armies, including PLA have great special forces that can go deep inside territories and operate for a period of time. Look at the 2 Koreas, Despite the heavily fortified border and coastline, North Korea can send easily team of special forces inside South Korea. South China borders is as much heavy guarded as Korea?


Why don't you send your superior knowledge to VN army? Why not telling them to stop the investment on navy and air units, but to put all money on your superman units?

The special units could make damage to china. They could even slaughter an entire village if they were sensed by the people there. But there is no way for you to depend on this for a final victory. The more criminals your superman did in China, the harder revenge we will make.


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> Why don't you send your superior knowledge to VN army? Why not telling them to stop the investment on navy and air units, but to put all money on your superman units?
> 
> The special units could make damage to china. They could even slaughter an entire village if they were sensed by the people there. But there is no way for you to depend on this for a final victory. The more criminals your superman did in China, the harder revenge we will make.



Listen, you talk about satellite and targeting. I told you, you can do it with Recon teams. Then you say they are supermen, then told you it's very easy to do so by looking at the Koreas special ops teams...then you saying killing civilian. Please dont turn my answer up side down and adding sentence I didn't (like killing civilians). Im sharing my opinions and knowledge with you. When it's good just say nothing instead of talking no sense



GS Zhou said:


> Why don't you send your superior knowledge to VN army? Why not telling them to stop the investment on navy and air units, but to put all money on your superman units?
> 
> .



I don't need to tell them, VPA are among the best in term of sabotage and special ops, they have decades of combat experience and have larges units already. Dac Cong was used to go inside US bases to kill and sabotage, Go inside Thailand to kill and monitor Khmer Rouge in the 1980-90s and inside China in 1979 war for sabotage and attacking rear units. It's just you who so focusing in hightech war with aegis, missiles, satellite, ect. and neglect the mother of all arms: Infantry


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> Listen, you talk about satellite and targeting. I told you, you can do it with Recon teams. Then you say they are supermen, then told you it's very easy to do so by looking at the Koreas special ops teams...then you saying killing civilian. Please dont turn my answer up side down and adding sentence I didn't (like killing civilians). Im sharing my opinions and knowledge with you. When it's good just say nothing instead of talking no sense
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to tell them, VPA are among the best in term of sabotage and special ops, they have decades of combat experience and have larges units already. Dac Cong was used to go inside US bases to kill and sabotage, Go inside Thailand to kill and monitor Khmer Rouge in the 1980-90s and inside China in 1979 war for sabotage and attacking rear units. It's just you who so focusing in hightech war with aegis, missiles, satellite, ect. and neglect the mother of all arms: Infantry


I start to feel angry, because you obviously don't think carefully before you send out your posts. Fine, I promise to stay polite. And I will not break my promise.

Now let me answer your questions.

*Superman unit: *PLA will show an immediate response after they sense the presence of your special units in China. You should not expect PLA would be blind to your soldiers till the last day of the war. PLA may not know the accurate positions of your men initially, but this will not intervene them to send army, armed police or militiaman for the search and hunts. Your well trained unit could get the fortunate to be escaped from the hunts once or twice, but if they be escaped from the troops, from the dogs, from the helicopters, from the UAVs again and again and again, could you think of any reason other than superman?

*Killing civilians: *we are talking about a potential case in Yunnan or Guangxi. Both with big population size that close to Vietnam's. For your active units in China, there is NO CHANCE that they never face any civilians during their operations. Let's assume they pass by a small village and be seen by s small kid. The kid then told parents about it. Now the Chinese civilians see some soldiers with guns, looks tired and very dirty, some of them even have blood/wounds on head, hands or legs. What's more important is that they cannot speak Chinese, or just speak very basic Chinese but in an strange tone. Do you expect these Chinese people be ignorant to your soldiers? Or you think the Chinese would believe this is nothing but Halloween? No! They will call the army immediately after your soldiers leave. For your special unit, there is nothing more dangerous than losing the anonymity. If you are the chief of such a VN unit that has been watched by civilians, and you are fully aware of the danger that these Chinese will call PLA after you leave, which will lead a heavy hunt by troops, dogs, helicopters and UAVs to you. For safety of you own and your people, do you have any other choice other than killing all the innocent people?? Answer me!

Let me be clear to you: Once Vietnam decides to send its special units to penetrate to China deep, killing innocent people will become an inevitable outcome. And the more criminals your boys do in China, the harder the revenge we will make.

*North and South Korea:* the reasons that special unit from the north is great threat to south is that:
A) they speak the SAME language!!!
B) Seoul is just 40km far to the north/south border line. North could even dig multiple tunnels till the city center of Seoul, they have sufficient time for this! The special units from DPRK could even penetrate to Seoul directly via the tunnels and launch a direct attack on the presidential site of the South!

But for the China vs. Vietnam case we talking about, do the two countries speak the same language?? Is Beijing close to the China/Vietnam border line? Even Kunming is 250km far away from the border!! You really expect your superman to suddenly show up at the Tian An Men Square and make a sudden attack on Xi's bed room?

*Learning military knowledge from books and internet: *there is nothing wrong for me to learn knowledge from books and internet. At least I show a right attitude for learning new knowledge and digest the knowledge with my own thinking! Definitely much better than an old fossil that fully immersed in the old glory time and could not get out of the illusion! This guy even believes if a tactic could be successful once, then it must be successful forever. I guess maybe he even believes knight could still dominate the battlefield today! And battleship is still ruler of the sea! This guy also believes if a tactic is fitted with country A, then it must also be fitted with B. He even doesn't want to spend time to think of the HUGE difference between country A and country B. Or maybe a careful thinking is too complicated to his small brain.


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> just look at the Americans with the Islamic state, it over 1 and half years of bombing and still bombing)



I told you again and again and again, the reason for the troubles of US with Islamic states is that US wants to hold control on LAND!! It wants to sweep out all enemies from the land of Iraq. But if US just wants to get some Iraqi islands and never show any interests on the land of Iraq, can any one on the globe make US stopped???


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> I start to feel angry, because you obviously don't think carefully before you send out your posts. Fine, I promise to stay polite. And I will not break my promise.
> 
> Now let me answer your questions.
> 
> *Superman unit: *PLA will show an immediate response after they sense the presence of your special units in China. You should not expect PLA would be blind to your soldiers till the last day of the war. PLA may not know the accurate positions of your men initially, but this will not intervene them to send army, armed police or militiaman for the search and hunts. Your well trained unit could get the fortunate to be escaped from the hunts once or twice, but if they be escaped from the troops, from the dogs, from the helicopters, from the UAVs again and again and again, could you think of any reason other than superman?
> 
> *Killing civilians: *we are talking about a potential case in Yunnan or Guangxi. Both with big population size that close to Vietnam's. For your active units in China, there is NO CHANCE that they never face any civilians during their operations. Let's assume they pass by a small village and be seen by s small kid. The kid then told parents about it. Now the Chinese civilians see some soldiers with guns, looks tired and very dirty, some of them even have blood/wounds on head, hands or legs. What's more important is that they cannot speak Chinese, or just speak very basic Chinese but in an strange tone. Do you expect these Chinese people be ignorant to your soldiers? Or you think the Chinese would believe this is nothing but Halloween? No! They will call the army immediately after your soldiers leave. For your special unit, there is nothing more dangerous than losing the anonymity. If you are the chief of such a VN unit that has been watched by civilians, and you are fully aware of the danger that these Chinese will call PLA after you leave, which will lead a heavy hunt by troops, dogs, helicopters and UAVs to you. For safety of you own and your people, do you have any other choice other than killing all the innocent people?? Answer me!
> 
> Let me be clear to you: Once Vietnam decides to send its special units to penetrate to China deep, killing innocent people will become an inevitable outcome. And the more criminals your boys do in China, the harder the revenge we will make.
> 
> *North and South Korea:* the reasons that special unit from the north is great threat to south is that:
> A) they speak the SAME language!!!
> B) Seoul is just 40km far to the north/south border line. North could even dig multiple tunnels till the city center of Seoul, they have sufficient time for this! The special units from DPRK could even penetrate to Seoul directly via the tunnels and launch a direct attack on the presidential site of the South!
> 
> But for the China vs. Vietnam case we talking about, do the two countries speak the same language?? Is Beijing close to the China/Vietnam border line? Even Kunming is 250km far away from the border!! You really expect your superman to suddenly show up at the Tian An Men Square and make a sudden attack on Xi's bed room?
> 
> *Learning military knowledge from books and internet: *there is nothing wrong for me to learn knowledge from books and internet. At least I show a right attitude for learning new knowledge and digest the knowledge with my own thinking! Definitely much better than an old fossil that fully immersed in the old glory time and could not get out of the illusion! This guy even believes if a tactic could be successful once, then it must be successful forever. I guess maybe he even believes knight could still dominate the battlefield today! And battleship is still ruler of the sea! This guy also believes if a tactic is fitted with country A, then it must also be fitted with B. He even doesn't want to spend time to think of the HUGE difference between country A and country B. Or maybe a careful thinking is too complicated to his small brain.



You angry? What you going to do, writing big words? Im sorry if I made you made but it's sometime frustrating to explain my point and then you stretch it out or you understand some stuff I stry to explain.

You need to detect the recon units and locate them, PLA reaction of intruders is the same to all other countries in the world (so there is nothing surprise or special here...). Massive manhunt is painful and take at lot of resources and time, it take a toll on the police and army forces if it's frequent and long, also you need to know the locations of these constantly moving small units in a thousand km2. China-Vietnam border is thousands kms long, crossing in and out is like a nice walk. Sending dozens of team of 4-5 men inside China at a time (and PLA would do the same ) deep 40-50 km inside China. You are not sending them to Shanghai or Beijing. Those recon units will just monitor PLA and sending positions for targets, they are not going to kill anybody. PLA will do the same, sending recon units into Viet Nam doing the same things

North and South Koreansinsert there special ops by sea on coastline, those tunnels under DMZ are for infantry regiments not special ops. Those Special ops stay low and move at night and never have any contact with the local population. It's useless, they may speak the same language but their northern or southern accents will betray them. All special ops in the world have the same rule, If they get detect by a civilian, you need to kill without exception. A SEAL team got wipe out (only one survive) in 2005 because they spare the life of an Afghan boy who then alert the Taliban.

Western armies use a lot of Special recon team lately, that's because satellites and drones are not reliable enough to avoid civilian casualties. So you need men on the ground to study the target.

I dont mind you reading books and stuffs in the internet, modern warfare is much more then missiles, aegis and satellite. The chunk of efforts in combat are done by men on the ground


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> You angry? What you going to do, writing big words? Im sorry if I made you made but it's sometime frustrating to explain my point and then you stretch it out or you understand some stuff I stry to explain.
> 
> You need to detect the recon units and locate them, PLA reaction of intruders is the same to all other countries in the world (so there is nothing surprise or special here...). Massive manhunt is painful and take at lot of resources and time, it take a toll on the police and army forces if it's frequent and long, also you need to know the locations of these constantly moving small units in a thousand km2. China-Vietnam border is thousands kms long, crossing in and out is like a nice walk. Sending dozens of team of 4-5 men inside China at a time (and PLA would do the same ) deep 40-50 km inside China. You are not sending them to Shanghai or Beijing. Those recon units will just monitor PLA and sending positions for targets, they are not going to kill anybody. PLA will do the same, sending recon units into Viet Nam doing the same things
> 
> North and South Koreansinsert there special ops by sea on coastline, those tunnels under DMZ are for infantry regiments not special ops. Those Special ops stay low and move at night and never have any contact with the local population. It's useless, they may speak the same language but their northern or southern accents will betray them. All special ops in the world have the same rule, If they get detect by a civilian, you need to kill without exception. A SEAL team got wipe out (only one survive) in 2005 because they spare the life of an Afghan boy who then alert the Taliban.
> 
> Western armies use a lot of Special recon team lately, that's because satellites and drones are not reliable enough to avoid civilian casualties. So you need men on the ground to study the target.
> 
> I dont mind you reading books and stuffs in the internet, modern warfare is much more then missiles, aegis and satellite. The chunk of efforts in combat are done by men on the ground



You eventually admitted that killing innocent civilians is an inevitable outcome for you special unit in China! Good. I said it already, the more criminals your boys do in China, the harder the revenge we will make. 

Manpower and different kind of resources are definitely required for search and hunting the VN units. I made it very clear already in my previous post. But maybe the two countries, China and Vietnam, they have different perceptions on what kind of resource could be called as "heavy resource". Vietnam thinks 4bn $ a year on military is heavy resource, while China thinks 220bn $ a year is heavy resource. 

Want to share you some pictures. It's about hunting some terrorist in Xinjiang. Besides police, there were *30,000 ordinary people* joining the efforts! They did a carpet-search and successfully caught the terrorists. In case your unit penetrates to China, such things will be seen in Yunnan or Guangxi as well. We don't expect the ordinary people to fight with your superman, but a shout "hey, these VN guys are here", that's more than enough.












Your special unit could bring some damages to us. But they could not bring Vietnam an eventual victory: there is no chance that they never be watched by our people, and a frequent communication between the unit and its HQs in Vietnam will make the unit's position leaked to us as well. We have sufficient money, sufficient resource, and sufficient manpower to hunt them. As this is the last hope of you, so to respect the glory and honor of yours, we don't mind to play a hunting game with your boys.


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## dichoi

GS Zhou said:


> You eventually admitted that killing innocent civilians is an inevitable outcome for you special unit in China! Good. I said it already, the more criminals your boys do in China, the harder the revenge we will make.
> 
> Manpower and different kind of resources are definitely required for search and hunting the VN units. I made it very clear already in my previous post. But maybe the two countries, China and Vietnam, they have different perceptions on what kind of resource could be called as "heavy resource". Vietnam thinks 4bn $ a year on military is heavy resource, while China thinks 220bn $ a year is heavy resource.
> 
> Want to share you some pictures. It's about hunting some terrorist in Xinjiang. Besides police, there were *30,000 ordinary people* joining the efforts! They did a carpet-search and successfully caught the terrorists. In case your unit penetrates to China, such things will be seen in Yunnan or Guangxi as well. We don't expect the ordinary people to fight with your superman, but a shout "hey, these VN guys are here", that's more than enough.
> 
> View attachment 270950
> View attachment 270951
> View attachment 270952
> 
> 
> Your special unit could bring some damages to us. But they could not bring Vietnam an eventual victory: there is no chance that they never be watched by our people, and a frequent communication between the unit and its HQs in Vietnam will make the unit's position leaked to us as well. We have sufficient money, sufficient resource, and sufficient manpower to hunt them. As this is the last hope of you, so to respect the glory and honor of yours, we don't mind to play a hunting game with your boys.



China is best in human wave tactic.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## GS Zhou

dichoi said:


> China is best in human wave tactic.



But it's definitely an effective way for tackling with the small units that try to penetrate to China. We don't expect the ordinary people to fight with the VN soldiers, all they need to do is to report the locations.

We nowadays invest heavily on modern warfare, missiles, war planes, warships, satellites, etc. But that doesn't mean we've forgotten Mao's principal of "*People's war*"


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> You eventually admitted that killing innocent civilians is an inevitable outcome for you special unit in China! Good. I said it already, the more criminals your boys do in China, the harder the revenge we will make.
> 
> Manpower and different kind of resources are definitely required for search and hunting the VN units. I made it very clear already in my previous post. But maybe the two countries, China and Vietnam, they have different perceptions on what kind of resource could be called as "heavy resource". Vietnam thinks 4bn $ a year on military is heavy resource, while China thinks 220bn $ a year is heavy resource.
> 
> Want to share you some pictures. It's about hunting some terrorist in Xinjiang. Besides police, there were *30,000 ordinary people* joining the efforts! They did a carpet-search and successfully caught the terrorists. In case your unit penetrates to China, such things will be seen in Yunnan or Guangxi as well. We don't expect the ordinary people to fight with your superman, but a shout "hey, these VN guys are here", that's more than enough.
> 
> View attachment 270950
> View attachment 270951
> View attachment 270952
> 
> 
> Your special unit could bring some damages to us. But they could not bring Vietnam an eventual victory: there is no chance that they never be watched by our people, and a frequent communication between the unit and its HQs in Vietnam will make the unit's position leaked to us as well. We have sufficient money, sufficient resource, and sufficient manpower to hunt them. As this is the last hope of you, so to respect the glory and honor of yours, we don't mind to play a hunting game with your boys.



Your idea of hunting special ops units is a joke, that's why you are just a civilian commenting on military tactics. Your Uighurs terrorists in China are armed with hammers and knifes and maybe a pistol for 4-5 guys so not much danger for civilians and police. That tactic was already used by North Vietnamese to hunt American pilots (using every eyes available and spreading flyers & posters...pilots don't want to fight, they want to live and will surrender if find, so it's not much danger for civilians) and but never for hunting an well armed & trained special ops.

We talking of special units of a large army with logistical and communication not a bunch of disorganized thugs armed with knifes with no supplies and no where to go. I don't know if you post those pics as a joke but it's funny. To hunt those units, you need a mobile military forces to pick up communications and track them, not a bunch of villagers with sticks and bricks. You kill a few civilian searchers and it's anarchy & everyone will run for their life ...and after a few dead who going to volunteer searching with a stick for heavily armed enemies later? Maybe you?


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> Your idea of hunting special ops units is a joke, that's why you are just a civilian commenting on military tactics. Your Uighurs terrorists in China are armed with hammers and knifes and maybe a pistol for 4-5 guys so not much danger for civilians and police. That tactic was already used by North Vietnamese to hunt American pilots (using every eyes available and spreading flyers & posters...pilots don't want to fight, they want to live and will surrender if find, so it's not much danger for civilians) and but never for hunting an well armed & trained special ops.
> 
> We talking of special units of a large army with logistical and communication not a bunch of disorganized thugs armed with knifes with no supplies and no where to go. I don't know if you post those pics as a joke but it's funny. To hunt those units, you a military mobile forces to pick up communications and track them not a bunch of villagers with sticks and bricks. You kill a couples civilian searchers and it's anarchy ...and after a few dead who going to volunteer searching with a stick for heavily armed enemies later? Maybe you?



Your superman is running without any supplies from Vietnam. No food supply, no medicine supply, no ammunition supply, even the battery shortage for their communication or GPS navigation equipment will become a headache. To get all these stuff from China, there is NO WAY that your superman doesn't leak any clues to the hunters. The more clues they leave, the more precise location information could be got by PLA.

You'd better to pray your superman not killing any civilians during their escape effort:

the more civilians they killed, the harder the revenge from China. 
the location of the dead civilian is a best indicator to tell PLA where your superman is. A large research force with UAVs and helicopters will immediately be sent to the adjacent areas. How far do you think your superman can move in an hour? 5km, 10km, or 20km? They have no choice but to use their own foot. They can steal a vehicle locally, but a vehicle needs to dependent on road. There must be plenty of check points on the key roads/crosses during the war time. They can even kill the people at the check points, but that leaves nothing but a more stronger/clearer location clue!


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> Your superman is running without any supplies from Vietnam. No food supply, no medicine supply, no ammunition supply, even the battery shortage for their communication or GPS navigation equipment will become a headache. To get all these stuff from China, there is NO WAY that your superman doesn't leak any clues to the hunters. The more clues they leave, the more precise location information could be got by PLA.
> 
> You'd better to pray your superman not killing any civilians during their escape effort:
> 
> the more civilians they killed, the harder the revenge from China.
> the location of the dead civilian is a best indicator to tell PLA where your superman is. A large research force with UAVs and helicopters will immediately be sent to the adjacent areas. How far do you think your superman can move in an hour? 5km, 10km, or 20km? They have no choice but to use their own foot. They can steal a vehicle locally, but a vehicle needs to dependent on road. There must be plenty of check points on the key roads/crosses during the war time. They can even kill the people at the check points, but that leaves nothing but a more stronger/clearer location clue!


I think you have no clue how much supplies a recon team bring with them for a mission and probably have zero clue how they get resupplies. And how hard and long it's to get graduated from recon school that teach you survive with zero supply and train to avoid detection for a long period of time. A mission may last a day or a couple weeks and back to Viet Nam for rest & recreation. And you know what, if you kill a civilian or 2 who detect you, well you dig a nice hole and bury them. Maybe after the war, the bodies will be find. Viet Nam have 200-300 000+ missing persons from the Viet Nam war. And you know what, PLA will also use the same tactics and send dozens of recon teams inside Viet Nam, doing the same thing VPA will do in China. Viet Nam will never win a war against China but VPA can surely give a bloody nose to PLA


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Hey man, *I'm talking about the satellites that taking pictures! To throw your bomb on the Chinese target, you at least need to know where it is, right? *So for example, an air defense unit of China, Monday morning, it was at 10km eastern to Kunming, but maybe the next morning, this unit has been moved to 20km western to Kunming. To hit this target, you need your satellite to update you the most recent location information of the CN unit. Right? But can the navigation satellite, be it American GPS, or Russian Glonass, take pictures for you?
> 
> China today is of course lagging behind US in terms of military technology. But the good news to us is that the gap is becoming SMALLER! We are quickly catching up in almost all areas, stealth fighters, long-distance cruiser missiles, Aegis destroyers, Missile Defense Systems, Anti-satellite technologies, nuclear submarines, AWACS, blabla. Take navigation satellite as the example, we already have our own navigation constellation on the orbit! Currently there are 10+ Chinese Beidou satellites on orbit, sufficient enough to cover Asia. And we will have close 30 Beidous in 2020, which will enable us for a GLOBAL coverage.


how do we know where you are?
well, not a dense system what you have in space, and not so sophisticated, we have 4 satelittes in space:

_VINAsat-1 and 2, they are geostationary communications satellites.







VNRED Sat-1, a remote sensing satellite, making high resolution pictures on the ground.




_

_F-1, a experimential satelitte




_

Vietnam Control Center























satelitte image


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> I think you have no clue how much supplies a recon team bring with them for a mission and probably have zero clue how they get supplies. And how hard and long to get graduated from recon school that teach you survive with zero supply and train to avoid detection a long period of time. A mission may last a day or a couple weeks and back to Viet Nam for rest & recreation. And you know what, if you kill a civilian or 2 who detect you, well you dig a nice hole and bury them. Maybe after the war, the bodies will be find. Viet Nam have 200-300 000+ missing persons from the last war. And you know what, PLA will also use the same tactics and send dozens of recon teams inside Viet Nam, doing the same thing VPA will do in China. Viet Nam will never win a war against China but VPA can surely give a bloody nose to PLA



I don't know the accurate size of the supplies your superman brings. Maybe 50kg per person, or 60kg per person? Or you want me to believe that your superman can take 1-ton supplies per person??

Dig a hole and bury the body. What a clever solution! How about the following? For members of the research team, they each will have own alert zone, and need to report the safety situation to their respective team leaders every 15min or 30min. If any reports missed, a team will be sent out immediately!! Such rule is completely impossible 30 or 40years ago, because for a larger group, e.g. 30,000 people, we couldn't offer each member with a portable communication equipment. But for now, we call the "portable communication equipment" as *mobile phones*! Before you sending out your message, could you pls just show some basic IQ??

Make blood to us? Yes, you can. I said it already, once Vietnam decides to send special units to penetrate to China, killing civilians will become an inevitable outcome. But, the more criminals your boys do in China, the harder the revenge China would make.


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## Viet

I´m posting some events here recently.


Italian President Sergio Mattarella comes for a state visit.







the French surveillance frigate ‘Vendemiaire" arrives the city of Da-Nang for a joint naval exercise.







Sen. Lieut. Gen. Vinh welcomes POW/MIA Accounting Agency (DPAA) Director Michael Linnington in Hanoi.







Vietnam-New Zealand Defence Dialogue took place in Hanoi, with Deputy Secretary of Defence Tony Lynch.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> how do we know where you are?
> well, not a dense system what you have in space, and not so sophisticated, we have 4 satelittes in space:
> 
> _VINAsat-1 and 2, they are geostationary communications satellites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VNRED Sat-1, a remote sensing satellite, making high resolution pictures on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _F-1, a experimential satelitte
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Vietnam Control Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> satelitte image



thanks for the sharing. And a sincere congratulations to you and to Vietnam! What a great achievement!

Couple of thoughts from my side:

For a consecutive coverage, VN needs to have many more satellites on the orbit. That's incredibly expensive. Taxes please!
Vietnam should also have more backup for your satellite control centers. Such a large static target is very vulnerable in war time. Taxes please again.
Compared to the hardware investment, what's more important is to have sufficient talents to operate these satellite controls centers. So even if the original one was bombed in war time, the back-up crew could still operate the backup centers smoothly. So how about you returning back from Germany and apply for the training program?
I don't want to scare you. But how about the following news that almost 10 years old?
China blasted its Fengyun 1-C satellite in a 2007 test


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## Gen Padmanabhan

GS Zhou said:


> thanks for the sharing. And a sincere congratulations to you and to Vietnam! What a great achievement!
> 
> Couple of thoughts from my side:
> 
> For a consecutive coverage, VN needs to have many more satellites on the orbit. That's incredibly expensive. Taxes please!
> Vietnam should also have more backup for your satellite control centers. Such a large static target is very vulnerable in war time. Taxes please again.
> Compared to the hardware investment, what's more important is to have sufficient talents to operate these satellite controls centers. So even if the original one was bombed in war time, the back-up crew could still operate the backup centers smoothly. So how about you returning back from Germany and apply for the training program?
> I don't want to scare you. But how about the following news that almost 10 years old?



What if Vietnam sign the intelligence sharing agreements with US,Japan and India? Have you consider this? 

And what if Vietnam already buying sat imagery from paid services in Canada?


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## GS Zhou

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> What if Vietnam sign the intelligence sharing agreements with US,Japan and India? Have you consider this?
> 
> And what if Vietnam already buying sat imagery from paid services in Canada?



That's a likely scenario, and I don't deny the possibility fully. Unlike some VN PDFer on this thread, I never underestimate the capability of a potential opponent. 

If you read my previous post carefully, I raised many questions to a potential case of SU30 successfully throws a guided bomb at a high-value target in Kunming. Satellite image is just one of the preconditions. If you don't read my post yet, let me paste it below again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To maximize the effects of this hightech stuff, there are couple of preconditions you need to fulfill. So please allow me to ask you some questions.

*Safety of the airport: *before the fighter takes off, you at least need to make sure the airport hasn't been bombed yet, or the damages caused by the bomb has been healed.

*Command of the air: *this is an aerial bomb. So if you want to use it to hit a target at Kunming, you need to fly through the head of Kunming and throw your bomb on top of the city. Before that, you will be challenged by China Air force J10, J11, or even J20. Even if you survived from the Chinese fighters, you still need to face with the ground units for air defense, e.g. the HQ-series missiles, or the flak. You also need to be cautious to the portable missiles used by infantry units, the VN PDFer @@Mokaman is a strong advocator of this. 

A comparison between the two pairs: SU30/bomb vs. H6K/cruise missiles, must be interesting. The long-range cruise missiles (>2,000 km) equipped by H6K means that H6K could even launch the missiles on top of Beijing to hit a target at Hanoi. Zero riks for the H6K pilots!

*Information transparency of the battle field: *you obviously don't want to waste your valuable bomb at a normal target. An ideal target for your bomb is some high-value things, like air defense missiles units, radar stations, or command HQs. But the question is that these units are changing their locations constantly. So you definitely need battle field transparency! An ideal way for this is that you have your own satellite on top of the battle field. To achieve a 24/7 transparency, you even need to have 10+, or even 20+satellites! Because these satellites are moving constantly, they could only stay above a particular point of the earth for a short period of time. Do you still remember the MH370 tragedy? To find out the plane, *China changes the orbits of 21 satellites* for day and night research in the South China Sea! But does Vietnam currently has all these necessary hardware for the guided bomb? No. It needs time, and tons of gold. So pay taxes to government.

BTW, want to share you a new toy of China. China recently launched a satellite for taking videos on the orbit. You can click the link below for a short video the CN satellite takes on top of Mexico. Could you understand the military meaning of the video satellite? It means Beijing could even be more clearer about the most recent locations of the VN army units than Hanoi!

There may be a short advertisement before the video, so be a bit patient please.

The new China video satellitte

*Training for the pilots:* training is a must-have even for the most talented pilot. To hit a CN target accurately, the VN pilots need to do real exercises for many rounds! Maybe 10 times? or 20 times? This brings us three questions:

*Bomb inventory: *do you have sufficient bomb inventory to support the heavy training? Or can you make it on your own? If the answer is NO, pls pay taxes to government to enhance the inventory from imports.
*Spare parts inventory: *the more you fly your SU30, the heavier maintenance required, which will lead to heavier consumption of the spare parts. Do you have sufficient spare parts inventory to support the heavy training program? Do you have the capability to produce the parts? For example, the braking pads of the landing gear, a very basic element, could you produce it on your own? Or you have to dependent on imports? If the answer is the latter, pls pay taxes to your government.
*SU30 life cycle: *the Russian fighters, compared to their western peers, e.g. F15, are born with very short life cycle. Take the SU27 China imported from USSR/Russia in 1990s' as an example, its designed lifecycle is just about 2,000 hours. So if you fly the plane 200hours a year, it could only last for 10years! This used to be an extreme headache for China Airforce, but later we conquered it successfully via:
*life cycle enhancement program for the old SU27 fleet. *This is not an easy task. It needs the efforts from both aviation industry and material industry. To make it done, you need to be: a) extremely clear of the design principal of the fighters; b) a guru on fatigue mechanics, otherwise you even couldn't know where the weakest point is; c) a guru on high strength/light weighting material. You need to own all the three points mentioned to launch a successful life cycle enhancement program. Does VN have them now? If the answer is no, VN needs to pay heavily to foreign companies for the program. So, pls pay taxes to your government.

*J11 localization: *compared to the life cycle enhancement of the old fleet, J11 localization is obviously a more fundamental solution! We therefore no longer need to worry about the balance of usage vs. lifecycle. We could fly the birds as heavily as we want! But is Vietnam capable of this? No. So your government needs to pay Russia constantly for the fleet renewal. Again, it is you time for paying taxes!


----------



## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> I don't know the accurate size of the supplies your superman brings. Maybe 50kg per person, or 60kg per person? Or you want me to believe that your superman can take 1-ton supplies per person??
> 
> Dig a hole and bury the body. What a clever solution! How about the following? For members of the research team, they each will have own alert zone, and need to report the safety situation to their respective team leaders every 15min or 30min. If any reports missed, a team will be sent out immediately!! Such rule is completely impossible 30 or 40years ago, because for a larger group, e.g. 30,000 people, we couldn't offer each member with a portable communication equipment. But for now, we call the "portable communication equipment" as *mobile phones*! Before you sending out your message, could you pls just show some basic IQ??
> 
> Make blood to us? Yes, you can. I said it already, once Vietnam decides to send special units to penetrate to China, killing civilians will become an inevitable outcome. But, the more criminals your boys do in China, the harder the revenge China would make.



Killing a CIVILIAN who spot a recon team, I didn't say killing member of a research team. Read my whole post before saying dumb things, you should show some basic IQ. You dont know much because you are a CIVILIAN thinking he is a military strategist

In 1979, plenty VPA recon teams did penetrated China, killing rear units soldiers and sabotage. Why it will different now, China going to nuke Viet Nam and have all south of China with radiations clouds for hundred of years?


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## Gen Padmanabhan

GS Zhou said:


> That's a likely scenario, and I don't deny the possibility fully. Unlike some VN PDFer on this thread, I never underestimate the capability of a potential opponent.



So, why overestimating the capability of PLA, PLAAF and PLAAN?



> *Safety of the airport: *before the fighter takes off, you at least need to make sure the airport hasn't been bombed yet, or the damages caused by the bomb has been healed.


That is called as "AIR FORCE BASES" aka AFB not airports. And what if AFB getting series of supersonic NLOS-BSM attack?



> *Command of the air: *this is an aerial bomb. So if you want to use it to hit a target at Kunming, you need to fly through the head of Kunming and throw your bomb on top of the city. Before that, you will be challenged by China Air force J10, J11, or even J20. Even if you survived from the Chinese fighters, you still need to face with the ground units for air defense, e.g. the HQ-series missiles, or the flak. You also need to be cautious to the portable missiles used by infantry units, the VN PDFer @@Mokaman is a strong advocator of this.


Why Vietnam going to need to bomb the Kumming with aerial bombs? Why not from NLOS-BSM?



> A comparison between the two pairs: SU30/bomb vs. H6K/cruise missiles, must be interesting. The long-range cruise missiles (>2,000 km) equipped by H6K means that H6K could even launch the missiles on top of Beijing to hit a target at Hanoi. Zero riks for the H6K pilots!


Have you considered PGMs? And how much escort need to H6K?



> *Information transparency of the battle field: *you obviously don't want to waste your valuable bomb at a normal target. An ideal target for your bomb is some high-value things, like air defense missiles units, radar stations, or command HQs. But the question is that these units are changing their locations constantly. So you definitely need battle field transparency! An ideal way for this is that you have your own satellite on top of the battle field. To achieve a 24/7 transparency, you even need to have 10+, or even 20+satellites! Because these satellites are moving constantly, they could only stay above a particular point of the earth for a short period of time. Do you still remember the MH370 tragedy? To find out the plane, *China changes the orbits of 21 satellites* for day and night research in the South China Sea! But does Vietnam currently has all these necessary hardware for the guided bomb? No. It needs time, and tons of gold. So pay taxes to government.


Wrong term, Army fought wars not run democracies. Transparency never exist on battlefields.

21 sats to detect the debris? So, are you going to move your all space based assets in next war with Vietnam? 



> BTW, want to share you a new toy of China. China recently launched a satellite for taking videos on the orbit. You can click the link below for a short video the CN satellite takes on top of Mexico. Could you understand the military meaning of the video satellite? It means Beijing could even be more clearer about the most recent locations of the VN army units than Hanoi!



Nothing new.



> *life cycle enhancement program for the old SU27 fleet. *This is not an easy task. It needs the efforts from both aviation industry and material industry. To make it done, you need to be: a) extremely clear of the design principal of the fighters; b) a guru on fatigue mechanics, otherwise you even couldn't know where the weakest point is; c) a guru on high strength/light weighting material. You need to own all the three points mentioned to launch a successful life cycle enhancement program. Does VN have them now? If the answer is no, VN needs to pay heavily to foreign companies for the program. So, pls pay taxes to your government.


What if Vietnam give the upgrade contract to Russia, or if they want western avionics then to India? Have you consider this?



> *J11 localization: *compared to the life cycle enhancement of the old fleet, J11 localization is obviously a more fundamental solution! We therefore no longer need to worry about the balance of usage vs. lifecycle. We could fly the birds as heavily as we want! But is Vietnam capable of this? No. So your government needs to pay Russia constantly for the fleet renewal. Again, it is you time for paying taxes!



Check the TTSL of J11 and its jet engine.


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> Killing a CIVILIAN who spot a recon team, I didn't say killing member of a research team. Read my whole post before saying dumb things, you should show some basic IQ. You dont know much because you are a CIVILIAN thinking he is a military strategist
> 
> In 1979, plenty VPA recon teams did penetrated China, killing rear units soldiers and sabotage. Why it will different now, China going to nuke Viet Nam and have all south of China with radiations clouds for hundred of years?



For the civilian that blocked your route, like the picture below, kill or not kill?







Even if you kill a passerby, e.g. a kid on his way home to school. There is sufficient ways for PLA to be informed about it in one or two hours: his teacher will learn that one of the student doesn't come to school today, so call the parents for check. Parents will be surprised to get the teacher's call! And they will call PLA immediately. Such thing is hard to imagine 30 or 40 years ago, because no one has portable communication equipment. But nowadays, every one has mobile phones!

Nuclear weapon is a stupid idea. No one likes it. But it won't be too difficult for China to destroy all the key infrastructures of Vietnam for revenge: power plants, the largest and most modern manufacturing plants, telecome centers, bla bla. You really want to lose all the fruits of your past 30years economic development??


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> For the civilian that blocked your route, like the picture below, kill or not kill?
> View attachment 271010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if you kill a passerby, e.g. a kid on his way home to school. There is sufficient ways for PLA to be informed about it in one or two hours: his teacher will learn that one of the student doesn't come to school today, so call the parents for check. Parents will be surprised to get the teacher's call! And they will call PLA immediately. Such thing is hard to imagine 30 or 40 years ago, because no one has portable communication equipment. But nowadays, every one has mobile phones!
> 
> Nuclear weapon is a stupid idea. No one likes it. But it won't be too difficult for China to destroy all the key infrastructures of Vietnam for revenge: power plants, the largest and most modern manufacturing plants, telecome centers, bla bla. You really want to lose all the fruits of your past 30years economic development??



During a conflict time, the regions of China-Viet Nam will be a mess and normal will be impossible. It would only need a bomb drop close to a PLA base and you will see people move out or hide inside their houses, most Schools and factories will be close and a lot of people would move out far away from the border. In the chaos, Families will be separated and kids trying to find their parents, that's war. Someone is missing is a normal thing during armed conflict.

When detected, the recon unit would move out back to Viet Nam. To relieve the pressure from PLA pursuing, other recon units in the region will do sabotage to distract the PLA and then themselves get out. It a cat and mouse game.

VPA artillery and missiles can bomb towns and cities close to Viet Nam border too. VPA too have long range arty. Viet Nam may come out destroy but at least they will give a fight


----------



## GS Zhou

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> So, why overestimating the capability of PLA, PLAAF and PLAAN?
> 
> 
> That is called as "AIR FORCE BASES" aka AFB not airports. And what if AFB getting series of supersonic NLOS-BSM attack?
> 
> 
> Why Vietnam going to need to bomb the Kumming with aerial bombs? Why not from NLOS-BSM?
> 
> 
> Have you considered PGMs? And how much escort need to H6K?
> 
> 
> Wrong term, Army fought wars not run democracies. Transparency never exist on battlefields.
> 
> 21 sats to detect the debris? So, are you going to move your all space based assets in next war with Vietnam?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new.
> 
> 
> What if Vietnam give the upgrade contract to Russia, or if they want western avionics then to India? Have you consider this?
> 
> 
> 
> Check the TTSL of J11 and its jet engine.



It's all about money, money! You can have all your airports defended by S300; you can have a large SU30 fleet that all equipped with long-range cruise missiles. You can have all your pilots trained day and night, even at the cost of wasting the lifecycle of the planes. You could make every one of the pilots get the chance to launch real cruise missile at least once a month. At the mean time, you could still purchase new satellite, new submarines and new Aegis destroyers. If you have an infinite military budget, you can make all your expectations realized! But what we are talking about now is a country with very limited military budget: $4bn/year. 

Today is the 11/11 shopping festival. I personally also have a long shopping list: I need a Ferrari, I need a large villa that facing the sea and with a 1,000m2 garden, I even need a personal jet! But do I have the necessary financial resource to make my shopping list come true? No. So I could just purchased some general stuff, e.g. a DJI drone.

We are talking about a potential war China vs. Vietnam. Not China vs. US. I don't think I make any overestimate here.

Why you think an H6K launching a cruise missile from the top of Beijing need to have an escort?

Why you think 21 satellites mean all space asset of China? In 2015 alone, we've launched more than 40 satellites to orbit.

An video satellite may not be new to US. But must be a new technology to Vietnam or India.



Mokaman said:


> During a conflict time, the regions of China-Viet Nam will be a mess and normal will be impossible. It would only need a bomb drop close to a PLA base and you will see people move out or hide inside their houses, most Schools and factories will be close and a lot of people would move out far away from the border. In the chaos, Families will be separated and kids trying to find their parents, that's war. Someone is missing is a normal thing during armed conflict.
> 
> When detected, the recon unit would move out back to Viet Nam. To relieve the pressure from PLA pursuing, other recon units in the region will do sabotage to distract the PLA and then themselves get out. It a cat and mouse game.
> 
> VPA artillery and missiles can bomb towns and cities close to Viet Nam border too. VPA too have long range arty. Viet Nam may come out destroy but at least they will give a fight



If you are willing to running the cost of losing all the fruits of your past 30years of economic development, just for the so-called glory and honor, fine, I don't want to argue with you any more.

Just a reminder, in case that day really comes, you'd better to come back from Canada to realize your glory and honor.


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## Gen Padmanabhan

GS Zhou said:


> It's all about money, money! You can have all your airports defended by S300; you can have a large SU30 fleet that all equipped with long-range cruise missiles. You can have all your pilots trained day and night, even at the cost of wasting the lifecycle of the planes. You could make every one of the pilots get the chance to launch real cruise missile at least once a month. At the mean time, you could still purchase new satellite, new submarines and new Aegis destroyers. If you have an infinite military budget, you can make all your expectations realized! But what we are talking about now is a country with very limited military budget: $4bn/year.
> 
> Today is the 11/11 shopping festival. I personally also have a long shopping list: I need a Ferrari, I need a large villa that facing the sea and with a 1,000m2 garden, I even need a personal jet! But do I have the necessary financial resource to make my shopping list come true? No. So I could just purchased some general stuff, e.g. a DJI drone.
> 
> We are talking about a potential war China vs. Vietnam. Not China vs. US. I don't think I make any overestimate here.


Another kind of BS.



> Why you think an H6K launching a cruise missile from the top of Beijing need to have an escort?


So, ever you thought then why China not invested in Ground launchers? Then why H6K?



> Why you think 21 satellites mean all space asset of China? In 2015 alone, we've launched more than 40 satellites to orbit.


Check the number of recce sats, and why China these days pleading for Topaz reactors in front of Russia.




> An video satellite may not be new to US. But must be a new technology to Vietnam or India.



Seriously?

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## GS Zhou

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> So, ever you thought then why China not invested in Ground launchers? Then why H6K?



why we cannot have both ground launchers and H6K? Why US wants to have both B1 and Ohio-class nuclear submarines? Why a billionaire could not have both Ferrari and Maserati?



Gen Padmanabhan said:


> Check the number of recce sats, and why China these days pleading for Topaz reactors in front of Russia.



Anything wrong for trying to get better technology? At least China shows the capability for a quick localization. Is your great Bharat capable of building your own SU30 today??




Gen Padmanabhan said:


> Seriously?


show me the video satellite of India or Vietnam please. thanks.


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## Gen Padmanabhan

GS Zhou said:


> why we cannot have both ground launchers and H6K? Why US wants to have both B1 and Ohio-class nuclear submarines? Why a billionaire could not have both Ferrari and Maserati?


Because there is serious threat from inland Russia and China. 



> Anything wrong for trying to get better technology? At least China shows the capability for a quick localization. Is your great Bharat capable of building your own SU30 today??


Another hilarious comment. 



> show me the video satellite of India or Vietnam please. thanks.



Why only of earth? Why not moon? And that is 8 years old.

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## GS Zhou

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> Because there is serious threat from inland Russia and China.
> 
> 
> Another hilarious comment.
> 
> 
> 
> Why only of earth? Why not moon? And that is 8 years old.



1. Sorry, cannot understand why you bring the "serious threat from inland Russia" to this thread. Or you mean, if one day a war China vs. Vietnam happens, Russia will immediately attack China from the north? Even in the 1979 war, when USSR had the responsibility to so because of the USSR/Vietnam treaty, the China/USSR border is still in peace.

2. I could not make a logic link between China is trying to get some smaller-sized reactor technology, with China therefore cannot allocate 21 satellites for a potential military operation in Vietnam in future. At least during the MH370 event, China had been doing so.

3. I could not see the video you post. Could you re-post?


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## Gen Padmanabhan

GS Zhou said:


> 1. Sorry, cannot understand why you bring the "serious threat from inland Russia" to this thread. Or you mean, if one day a war China vs. Vietnam happens, Russia will immediately attack China from the north? Even in the 1979 war, when USSR had the responsibility to so because of the USSR/Vietnam treaty, the China/USSR border is still in peace.


Because you asking the utility of B-1. 



> 2. I could not make a logic link between China is trying to get some smaller-sized reactor technology, with China therefore cannot allocate 21 satellites for a potential military operation in Vietnam in future. At least during the MH370 event, China had been doing so.


If you dont know what is the link between Sea recce sats that China now crying to attain with Space based reactors, then no one can help you.



> 3. I could not see the video you post. Could you re-post?


Search on the youtube.


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## GS Zhou

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> Because you asking the utility of B-1.
> 
> 
> If you dont know what is the link between Sea recce sats that China now crying to attain with Space based reactors, then no one can help you.
> 
> 
> Search on the youtube.




H6K offers us a more flexible way for the target like Guam. And I don't see issue for using this for a potential China/Vietnam conflicts.
I don't care about your suspicious attitude on number/lifecycle of the CN satellites on orbit. How about this? CZ11 and its fast launching platform







Would you mind sending me the link directly?


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## Nike

@Hu Songshan @waz @Slav Defence 

please to delete irrelevant posts from both user @Gen Padmanabhan and @GS Zhou above this post

sincerely thank you

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## Viet

zhou, as for contribution to the motherland, or "tax payment" as you said, the exile Viets send back home a lot of money every year, this year expected to be $14 billion. if calculating money transfered direct non-bank to the families and relatives, the figure would be $20 billion. so pls don´t bash exile vietnamese. I believe the government oif Vietnam has no reasons to complain. more, the government policy is all exile vietnamese are part of the nation regardless where we live, which passport color we possess.

Vietnam's remittances to hit $13-$14 bln in 2015-cbank| Reuters


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> zhou, as for contribution to the motherland, or "tax payment" as you said, the exile Viets send back home a lot of money every year, this year expected to be $14 billion. if calculating money transfered direct non-bank to the families and relatives, the figure would be $20 billion. so pls don´t bash exile vietnamese. I believe the government oif Vietnam has no reasons to complain. more, the government policy is all exile vietnamese are part of the nation regardless where we live, which passport color we possess.
> 
> Vietnam's remittances to hit $13-$14 bln in 2015-cbank| Reuters


A great figure! Impressive!

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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> I
> 
> 
> Send your zenophobic nationalism comment to other VN user that saying want to use artillery to bomb the Chinese cities or towns that close to the border.
> 
> If you read my posts carefully, the core messages I put here is more tax payment for a greater country and more hard work for a stronger domestic manufacturing industry. That's what written on the walls of my university.



Viet Nam will never attack China, the other is very likely. If PLA bomb Vietnamese factories, Airbases, infrastructures,ect. What make you think VPA long arty will not respond by bombing Chinese factories, infrastructures...? No country in this world would just let be bombarded and don't counterattack. So for you it's zenophobic nationalism if VPA bomb Chinese border to respond PLA attacks... You must think VPA are all low life with no honor with obsolete weapons and will just run as soon mighty PLA attacks, the whole +500k soldiers will just disband. And Viet NAm will just watch PLA bombs destroy factories, airbases...Because counterattacking is zenophobic nationalism... Great analysis, great propaganda


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> I
> 
> Send your zenophobic nationalism comment to other VN user that saying want to use artillery to bomb the Chinese cities or towns that close to the border.
> 
> If you read my posts carefully, the core messages I put here is more tax payment for a greater country and more hard work for a stronger domestic manufacturing industry. That's what written on the walls of my university.



Are you going to call the Palestinians zenophobic nationalism too because when mighty Israeli army bomb their territory, the Palestinians will respond by doing cross border attacks and launching zero accuracy homemade missiles. Palestinians have no army and have basic weapons, and they still can do some small damages and drain a lot of Israeli resources to guard the border (and Palestinian can still send some rag tag sabotage teams), Now imagine a real army with good weapons and trained soldiers can do.


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## Sasquatch

@GS Zhou @Mokaman enough of this, it is turning into a Vietnam vs China thread. Go back to the topic.


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## GS Zhou

Hu Songshan said:


> @GS Zhou @Mokaman enough of this, it is turning into a Vietnam vs China thread. Go back to the topic.


Ok, I will stop the response to @Mokaman


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## Viet

Interesting discussion anyway ...ha ha ha

returning to topic

Military factory *Z113 *successfully produces NATO standard bullet 7,62 x 51mm M80 used by M14, M60, MAG58 rifles, machine guns. M14 machine gun was once developed and deployed by the US armed forces during the Vietnam war.


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## Aqsuperman

oh..........thing escalated quick when im gone :v 

Some toys for the the police , usual stuffs but with the new appearance of a Truvelo CMS sniper rifle , .......Quiet rifle from MGS : Phantom pain ? :v


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## Viet

Cmdr. H.B. Le, former commander of Arleigh Burke class guided-missile destroyer USS Lassen, now commander of Destroyer Squadron 7. we remember, the ship provoked the chinese recently in the SC Sea.

US Aegis Destroyer USS Lassen




















left: destroyer USS Lassen, right: carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt

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## Aqsuperman

an RPD-armed troop prepare to fire , a normal company of VPA include 3 RPD , 3 M79 , 6 RPG plus organic fire support contigent which usually field 60mm mortars and PKMS , may come heavier if attach to breakthourgh (SPG-9 , 120mm mortars , etc ) specialized units also got specialist troops like sniper and sapper armed from Mosin , LAW to SVD and RPO-A


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## vtnsx

We Vietnamese will conquer all nations trying to threaten us. We Vietnamese are proud people and will fight for our freedom. We will show our enemies no mercy and we will be brutal to the point where our enemies will shiver. Whenever they hear us coming, they will feel the chill flowing to their bones! We are the Vietnamese proud people on planet Earth!


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## Viet

@Barmaley
you recently asked what efforts have been made to the ground force?
actually here and there a little, not to much, not too little. I find this one, cost saving domestic made atillery is especially nice. origin US atillery gun M101 calibre 105mm mounted on a truck. voila, we have a mobile 105mm atillery. nice, isn´t it?

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## Viet

Submarine hunter Petya class frigates, with RBU-6000 launcher on board. RGB-60 rocket, weight 110kg, warhead 25kg, distance to target 350-5800m, water depth 500m.


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## Nike

RBU 6000 can be used against land target too, we had do it


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## Viet

A long journey to home: Vietnam Marine Training Sailship *Lê Quý Đôn*, departing from Poland, half the globe taking a long trip via North Atlantic and Pacific before entering the South China Sea with the final destination: Nha-Trang sea port.












actual position Guadeloup/Dominica Strait






heading to Panama Canal


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## Aqsuperman

Captured M-60 machinegun , mostly in reserve , sometime you can see this in tourist attraction firing range


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## Viet

History

50 years ago today, November 14, 1965, one of the bloodiest battles of the Vietnam war, the 5 day and night long battle of la Drang valley of 1965. it was not a decisive battle, but the outcome decided further the course of the war. that was the first time, when an Elite unit of the US Armed Forces, regiments of the 1st Cavalry Division met the regiments of North Vietnamese Army in direct encounter, face to face, bajonet by bajonet, day and night, in all-out assault. the US soldiers were better trained and equipped, receiving air and artillery support, while the Northvietnamese were determined to give the enemy a deadly punch.






looks like this: US air assault landing at the La drang valley



How the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley Changed the Course of the Vietnam War
11.14.1512:01 AM ET
James Warren

Fifty years ago today, one of the Vietnam war’s most ferocious battles broke out in the Ia Drang Valley. But the battle’s true toll would prove to be the hubris it bred in U.S. commanders.

Fifty years ago today, November 14, 1965, the first wave of troopers from a battalion of the First Cavalry Division, an elite unit of the U.S. Army that had turned in its horses for helicopters and an experimental “airmobile” assault doctrine, debouched from its Bell UH-1 “Huey” transports into a tree-lined clearing, dotted with patches of elephant grass and red-brown anthills. Suddenly, 90 Americans found themselves in the Ia Drang Valley, deep in South Vietnam’s Central Highlands, a remote Communist base area from the days of the French Indochina War of the late 1940s and early1950s.






map of the battle location







US troops at the landing zone X-Ray







Operation plan




Within seconds of touching down at the base of the Chu Pong Massif, a 2,400-foot high mountain mass that stretched some seven miles westward into Cambodia, the battalion commander, a no-nonsense West Pointer named Lt. Col. Harold G. Moore, had sent out scouting parties into the tree line at the clearing’s edge. The rest of his force began to secure a perimeter in the center of the clearing. The battalion “had come looking for trouble,” Moore wrote years later. “We found all that we wanted and more.”

Army intelligence estimated the presence of a single enemy regiment of about 2,200 soldiers in the immediate vicinity. In fact, Moore’s battalion, the 1st of the 7th Cavalry, had landed within strolling distance of three regiments of the People’s Army of Vietnam (PAVN)—the regular army of North Vietnam. As it happened, the North Vietnamese, too, were looking for trouble. 

According to Brig. Gen. Chu Huy Man, commander of the Central Highlands front, most of his troops had only recently arrived in the Highlands after an arduous, two-month trek from North Vietnam down the Ho Chi Minh Trail.They had been very active in the area over the preceding month, laying siege to a Special Forces camp at nearby Plei Me. Now they hoped to lure the newly arrived American forces into a major engagement in order to learn their tactics—especially how they used helicopters to deploy infantry units deep inside Communist-held territory, and to keep them supplied in extended operations. 








X-Ray perimeter, night of November 14



Although it is little remembered today, the battle that unfolded over the course of the next three days proved to be one of the most intense and savagely fought ground actions in American military history since World War II. Moreover, it marked a strategic sea-change with profound implications in the violent struggle for control over South Vietnam that had been escalating slowly since 1959.






US troops under Northvietnamese enemy fire at LZ X-Ray.


Even before Moore's battalion established a firm perimeter and landed its entire complement of 450 troops into the fighting zone, the 33rd and 66th Regiments had launched multiple assaults against the Americans. All were turned back with very heavy PAVN casualties. One unlucky American platoon from B Company was completely cut off and surrounded by the enemy 300 yards to the northwest of the battalion perimeter. By the time it was rescued about 28 hours later, it had fended off countless enemy assaults, and 20 of its 27 men had been killed or wounded.

Hard fighting continued throughout the afternoon of November 14. Only the deft insertion of another American battalion into the fight under heavy fire, and emergency resupply missions by a helicopter pilot who would later be awarded the Medal of Honor, prevented the North Vietnamese from overrunning the perimeter and routing the Americans on the first day of the battle. 

As night settled over the cramped and corpse-littered battlefield, the outnumbered American force had taken 87 casualties. But the American infantry alone had killed around 200 PAVN troops; another couple of hundred of the enemy had fallen well outside the perimeter as a result of fighter bomber attacks and pinpoint-accurate artillery fire.

Around 7 a.m. on November 15, the North Vietnamese launched a furious three-company (about 400 men) frontal assault against the lines of C-Company, killing three of its five officers within minutes. By 7:15, the North Vietnamese had launched two more powerful assaults from entirely different directions. As Moore’s men threw up ******** of machine gun and rifle fire to blunt the attacks, a dozen enemy mortar and rocket rounds exploded within the American perimeter, killing and wounding several of Moore’s troopers. 

For a few minutes during that unforgettably intense morning, PAVN assault teams got inside C Company’s lines, and began to kill wounded Americans. According to Lt. Col. Moore’s after-action report, by 8 a.m., the entire LZ was “severely threatened,” and a fair number of soldiers in and around his command post had been killed or wounded by increasingly dense small arms fire. Yet the Americans held on doggedly, as Moore and his company commanders deftly maneuvered squads and platoons from one sector of the perimeter to the next, turning back each enemy thrust in turn.








Relief of LZ X-Ray on November 15


After the final assaults against Charlie Company that morning, Lt. Rick Rescorla surveyed the grim scene: “There were American and PAVN bodies everywhere … There were several dead PAVN around one platoon command post. One dead trooper was looked in contact with a dead PAVN, hands around the enemy’s throat. There were two troopers—one black, one Hispanic—linked tight together. It looked like they had died trying to help each other.”

“The enemy were aggressive, and they came off the mountain in large groups,” Moore’s after-action report continues. “They were well camouflaged and took excellent advantage of cover and concealment. Even after being hit several times in the chest [with M-16 fire] many continued firing and moving for several more steps.” As the battle progressed, PAVN troops “dug into small spider holes” just outside the perimeter and waited for American defenders to expose themselves before firing their weapons. Others “dug into the sides and tops of anthills” and had to be eliminated with antitank weapons. 

By all accounts the battle at LZ X-Ray came to bloody crescendo between 4 a.m. and 6 a.m. on the morning of November 16. The PAVN launched a series of three 100-to-200-man assaults in rapid succession, testing the exhausted American defenders to the breaking point. Thanks to excellent defensive preparation and the skill of forward artillery observers in placing high explosive artillery right in the midst of the assault units as they moved in toward the perimeter, the American infantry handily fended off each assault.

Prior to the Battle of the Ia Dran Valley in November 1965, the fighting in Vietnam had been carried out largely by the proxies of the struggle’s chief architects in Washington and Hanoi.

Badly battered over three days and nights of fighting, the People’s Army’s 66th and 33rd regiments began withdrawing soon thereafter from the battlefield at X-Ray for good. Moore’s exhausted but unbowed battalion was airlifted out of X-Ray as well. 

Gen. Man’s forces had taken close to 2,000 casualties, including more than 600 men killed in action, as counted on the battlefield by American forces. American losses at X Ray were 79 killed in action and 121 men wounded, many severely.

But the battle of the Ia Drang Valley wasn’t truly over. Not yet.

The next morning, Lt. Col. Bob McDade had orders to march the 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry out of X-Ray, where it had bivouacked uneventfully the night of November 16, to LZ Albany several miles to the northwest for its extraction. As his 550-foot column came into the Albany clearing, scouts captured two PAVN soldiers. McDade assembled his company commanders and sergeants at the front of the column to discuss whatever new intelligence he could gather from the enemy prisoners. Meanwhile, the men in the column dropped to the ground to relax, smoke, or get some desperately overdue sleep.










Unbeknownst to the Americans, the 8th battalion of the 66th PAVN regiment lay in wait just out of sight beyond the clearing. At 1:20 p.m., the Communist unit, which had been held in reserve during the earlier fighting, executed a textbook-perfect ambush, cutting the column to ribbons with machine gun and rifle fire, and grenades. Caught with all their leaders at the front of the column, all unit coherence was lost among the Americans, and the fighting quickly degenerated into a number of savage, isolated firefights and hand-to-hand combat.

“I gave my orders to the battalion,” said the 66th’s commander, Lt. Col. Nguyen Huu An recalled years after the event. “Move inside the column, grab [the Americans] by the belt, and thus avoid casualties from the artillery and air.” Of the 400 men in McDade’s unit, 155 died and 124 were wounded by the time the fighting ended. The battle at Albany proved to be one of the worst defeats of an American battalion in the entire Vietnam war.



How the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley Changed the Course of the Vietnam War - The Daily Beast


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## Viet

but now back today

Almost complete, a new 2,500 tons coast guard vessel, built by Sông Thu shipyard. expected to launch the long range ship end of November, patrolling the territorial waters.


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## Viet

Sea Mines

Origin in the former USSR, sea mine UDM-M1, developed by Vietnam´s Department of Engineering, now successfully produced by Military factory X-28. likely use: laying 10,000 mines round the islands and coasts preventing or slowing enemy assaults or bringing all of the commercial sea lanes to a standstill.


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## Aqsuperman

RPG-7 with optic , still most of the training and firing is done with iron sight , probably to save the wear and tear


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> RPG-7 with optic , still most of the training and firing is done with iron sight , probably to save the wear and tear


saving wear and tear?


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## Viet

Images of the recent exercise of 4th Division













RPG












BM21 Multiple Rocket Launcher










57mm artillery


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> saving wear and tear?


Yeah , for most of the time , firing practice with be done with iron sight only , except large scale manouver training and specialize stuff like sniper rifle , mortar , etc 

Well.........everything has it first step :v


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## Viet

Vietnam Army General Staff at the ASEAN Defence Minister Meeting (Malaysia)






General Thanh visiting a aviation repair facility.





Visiting the Coast Guard.








Exercise repelling an enemy assault on the island

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## Aqsuperman

105mm M101 , old yet quite versatile


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## Aqsuperman

Very effective for attacking ground and air target , may come with attaching SA-24 to increase anti-air capability


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## Viet

*Are China and Japan Heading for a South China Sea Showdown?*


By Ryan Faith
November 12, 2015 | 2:59 pm









Vietnam has hosted two Asian heavyweights and rivals, Chinese President Xi Jinping and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, back-to-back, in advance of several weeks of intense summits and meetings between heads of state.

For most Americans, November is the dark, lonely time between Halloween diabetes and Thanksgiving obesity. But for much of the world's diplomatic corps, it's like spring break. Granted, a very old, geriatric, C-SPAN version of spring break, but one that still involves a lot of intense, crazy, wild diplomacy nonetheless.

Next Sunday kicks off a week of various global summits, gabfests, and gossip, starting with the G20 on November 15 and 16, and continuing through the 27th Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Summit, which runs from November 18 to 22 and coincides with the East Asia Summit (EAS) on November 21 and 22.

The G20 summit is where the heads of state for the world's top 20 economies meet. The ASEAN Summit will involve, basically, everyone around the South China Sea, except for China; affiliated meetings involve ASEAN plus China, South Korea, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. Finally, the EAS will bring in all of the ASEAN folks plus surrounding powers like China, Russia, Australia, Japan, and the US.

And it looks like a major theme at all of this year's old-fart blowouts will be a perennial favorite: South China Sea territorial disputes.

By way of background, the South China Sea is a (largely submerged) bit of real estate worth some enormous amount of money (north of $5 trillion, depending on whose numbers you believe). Needless to say, with that much wealth on the line, countries bordering the South China Sea are making all kinds of confusing and conflicting territorial claims, like hardcore stoners facing a run on weed at a Phish concert.

Now, normally, this kind of thing might be solved by long, intricate, impenetrable discussions about who really had what whenever and why so-and-so should get priority over whatever. In the end, not much of anything really amazing would happen, but there would be lots and lots of talking, and maybe ordering some pizza.

*Related:* With a Few Words, Japan Escalates Its Standoff With China in the South China Sea

But as it happens, China is now trying to Bogart all of that sweet, sweet South China Sea goodness, which has gotten various folks rather bummed and has, indeed, buzz-killed quite a significant number of buzzes.

This would be one thing if it were like any sort of normal, lawyer-intensive blather-fest of a territorial claim. But the problem is that China is virtually trembling with 'roid rage, and word is that the other claimant nations would earn themselves a vicious beatdown if they told China to step off.

"For the Southeast Asian countries, the only way they win this thing, or at least the only way they don't get their rights completely trampled by China, is if they can multi-lateralize the South China Sea issue," said Greg Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

He added that the countries need to come together in such a way "that it becomes not about Philippines versus China, or Vietnam versus China, but truly about being opposite 195 other countries."

Or, in other words, the only hope for all these little countries is to do this Voltron thing and basically take all their tiny little Southeast Asian nations and come together to form a giant Southeast Asian robot that can stand up to China.

Thus, when the _Japan Times_ reported that Abe announced last Friday that he was going to be taking the South China Sea case to both the ASEAN and EAS summits and the G20, there was a great deal of rejoicing among various South China Sea claimants. Like a veritable call to arms for a multinational version of #OccupySouthChinaSea.

This story got a lot of play in the (still heavily state-influenced) Vietnamese media, which hints at something a bit more subtle going on here. A week ago, when Xi was in town to visit Hanoi, there were a great number of photo ops and announcements that China and Vietnam really wanted to avoid a fight, and that they were super intent on chatting and repairing their damaged relationship.

*Watch VICE News' documentary Japan vs. the Islamic State:*

Almost immediately after that, China's regional arch-enemy, Japan, showed up and had discussions with Vietnam about a port visit to the massive naval installation at Cam Ranh Bay.

Cam Ranh Bay opens right onto the South China Sea. During the US war in Vietnam, it was home to a major US base, and after Saigon fell, it became a major Soviet naval installation. Today, the airfield at *Cam Ranh Bay* is a departure point for *Russian Tu-95 Bear nuclear-capable bombers and Il-78 tankers*, aimed at regional targets, including major US bases like Guam. Vietnam is currently refurbishing the port to allow for international visits from many countries, including Russia, the US, and India.

Now, Vietnam and Japan have apparently inked an agreement to host visiting Japanese naval vessels at Cam Ranh Bay in 2016. The last time a Japanese warship made such a splash at Cam Ranh Bay was likely 1942, when the Imperial Japanese Navy was staging an invasion of *Malaysia*.

Interestingly, the Japanese were pretty much the last folks to wage war in Vietnam without getting their asses completely handed to them. Most of the remainder of the 20th century was spent kicking the asses of various foreign militaries. The *First Indochina war *was a loss by the French that earned them nearly 100,000 dead. The *Second Indochina War* (known as the Vietnam War in the US and the American War in Vietnam) earned the US and its foreign allies about 60,000 dead.

The *Third Indochina War *saw China attempt to invade in 1979, for a variety of reasons, including Vietnam's occupation of the Spratley Islands in the South China Sea. The less-than-month long war killed tens of thousands of soldiers on both sides, earning China a spot alongside the US and France in the Hall of Fame of Countries That Got Their Butts Kicked by Vietnam in the 20th Century.

Which is all backdrop to the recent meetings between China and Vietnam where they made a lot of noise about making up and getting back together. Almost immediately thereafter, Vietnam talks with Japan about hosting Japanese naval ships and pushes Japanese diplomatic efforts to counter China in its local press. This is on top of the recent delivery of a Japanese patrol vessel to Vietnam, part of a larger six-ship deal.

If you put this in a broader context of Vietnamese behavior, Hanoi has been buying cruise missiles from India, submarines from Russia, patrol boats and maritime surveillance aircraft from the US, and now patrol vessels from Japan. That's not just the move of a country going to get armed; it's the move of a country that wants to build as many of the political ties that go along with arms deals as possible. This is, in turn, likely to be a hedge against China pushing hard on the territory both it and Vietnam claim.

Meanwhile, China is starting to arm *Cambodia*, which has had a complex and difficult relationship with Vietnam since 1977, when Vietnam invaded Cambodia to put a halt to the Khmer Rouge and the Cambodian genocide. That invasion marked the beginning a 14-year occupation (another one of the proximate causes of the war between China and Vietnam).

Today, an impoverished Cambodia is eager for all the help it can get, while China is happy to have some friends in the region. China already pours a ton of no-strings-attached money into Cambodia for infrastructure projects. But on the same day that Abe announced Japan was going to be talking South China Sea at all these diplomatic summits, the Chinese signed a deal providing Cambodia with new military aid in the form of air-defense systems — all part of the broader Chinese effort to modernize the Cambodian military.

So, to put it in cinematic terms, the relationship between *China *and *Vietnam *is like one of those situations you've seen in countless movies where two characters are sitting across from each other in a public place, like a diner. Even as they are smiling and chatting amiably, they are both unholstering their guns beneath the table, ever so delicately and quietly trying to turn off the safety, and *getting their weapons ready* like some sort of lethal insurance policy. Nobody is pulling any triggers quite yet, but the way things are going, it won't take very much at all to set off full-blown showdown in the South China Sea.

_Follow Ryan Faith on Twitter: __@Operation_Ryan_

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## Aqsuperman

A 152mm round in it case with propellant


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> A 152mm round in it case with propellant


domestic made? I read vietnamese letters on the granate.









changing topic

have you ever heard when the replacement comes for the aging MIG-21 fleet? because it will come the time to say Goodbye to the heroic *MIG-21*. MIG-17 and 19 have found their resting place in museum, or on bookshelves.






















dogfight between Northvietnamese MIG-21 and US fighter jet Phantom.



















foe yesterday, friend today. time has changed a lot.

the US provides $19.6 million in FY 2015 and $20.5 million in FY 2016 as martime assistance to Vietnam. and a moe important news: The White House said in a statement released on November 17 that it had lifted “the ban on sales of maritime-related lethal capabilities to allow development of Vietnam’s maritime capacity and encourage interoperability with other regional forces.”

US Announces Maritime Security Boost for Southeast Asia | The Diplomat

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## Aqsuperman

well we may self-produce the propellant but cant say the same about the warhead though , our metallurgy is not quite adaquate for the task yet , mortar rounds and in some case rifle rounds are more or less acceptable but bigger stuff will need more time , we can refurbish existing warhead stock from the Soviet-aid though 

Rumor is many yet for the time being we willl invest more on purchasing Su-30 variant , the replacement for the light interceptor will probably need to wait 

a Su-30 formation with a clear view of a R-27 or a R-73

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## Viet

*Dredger*

a major step forward for Vietnam shipbuilding industry, and for the first time ever, the Military run Shipyard *Song Thu *launches a 2,800 tons dredger. Rosmorspor (Russia) is the first foreign customer who orders 4 of these modern dredgers. the first ship is coded: TSHD 2000 “Severnaya Dvina”. well, it is safe to assume, the Song Thu will assemble an armada of such dredger to support our land reclamation efforts in the SC Sea. the game continues.

specifications:

_- dredger TSHD 2000 class, equipped with modern control systems.
- designed and assisted by the Dutch company Damen
- 80.35 meters long, 16.2 meters wide, maximum hopper volume of 2,300 cubic meters and total capacity of 2,800 gross tons.
- can operate in all weather conditions, including harsh weather conditions of Russia’s northern region, with air temperatures ranging from -30°C to +40°C._

_




_

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## Aqsuperman

Side view of a Molniya , 2 quad launcher and AK-630 with a partial Ak-176 in the view


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## Aqsuperman

A very old communicating hand book for the Vietnam Volunteer Army in Cambodia


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> domestic made? I read vietnamese letters on the granate.


nope, is wad aid by USSR, but VN repair it only


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## Aqsuperman

Beautiful weather today , isnt it ? :v


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## Aqsuperman

Old photo of a ZSU 23 4 battery , first combat in Vietnam was at the final stage of the 1975 Spring offensive


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## Viet

Berlin, today

Pictures of the current visit of State President Truong Tan Sang and his spouse to Germany. one of the key topics are finding ways how to increase economic ties and strategic partnership, and of course, one thing can´t be missed: the tension in the SC Sea.

Bundesregierung | Artikel | Strategische Partnerschaft und Freundschaft vertiefen











welcomed by the State President of Germany Joachim Gauck

















presidential palace





Meeting with Angela Merkel in Bundeskanzleramt (the government seat), Berlin.





deja-vue: she visited Vietnam, here the Confucius Temple in Hanoi in 2011.

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## Viet

Bellevue Presidential Palace on November 25. welcomed by the Guard of Honor with 21-gun salute.






















Gauck and his unmarried spouse

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## Viet

*Vietnam-Russia joint military exercise*

One of Russia’s Eastern Military District's combined arms units will participate in joint military exercises in Vietnam.

Military & Intelligence
11:07 26.11.2015

*



*

KHABAROVSK (Sputnik) — Russia and Vietnam will hold the first joint military exercises in the Vietnamese territory in 2016, the head of Russia’s Eastern Military District press service said on Thursday.

"It is planned to use one of the district's combined arms units stationed in the Amur Region," Col. Alexander Gordeev told reporters.

The Eastern Military District is one of the four operational strategic commands of the Russian Armed Forces. The district was formed by a Presidential Decree and signed September 2010.

Russia is currently undergoing a $325-billion rearmament program to achieve a 70-percent modernization of its military by 2020.

Read more: Russia, Vietnam WIll Hold 1st Joint Drills on Vietnamese Territory in 2016





_the new established 3rd Squadron SU-30 bombers, stationed in Thọ Xuân, Thanh Hóa (Central Vietnam) can participate in the upcoming 1st Vietnam-Russia Joint Military Exercise, with one of four Russia´s operational strategic commands._


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## Aqsuperman

SPG-9


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## Viet

White rose for the victims of Paris terror attack, laid before the Berlin´s National Gate by Vietnam president and his spouse.
Staatschef von Vietnam in Berlin: Weiße Rosen vom Präsidenten für die Opfer von Paris - Berlin - Tagesspiegel






Interesting. and a great honor: the Vietnam president jet was escorted by two fighter jets of the German Airforce (Bundesluftwaffe) when it crossed the german border, approaching the Berlin airport. Before Vietnam, the english Queen Elizabeth II. and israeli President Reuven Rivlin enjoyed such a great protocol.
Berliner Staatsbesuch aus Vietnam: Düsenjäger überfliegen die Hauptstadt - Berlin - Tagesspiegel


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## Aqsuperman

beautiful night view :v


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## Viet

Côn Đảo, one of the most beautiful islands in the SC Sea, and one of places playing a tragic part in the Vietnamese history. lying some 80 km away from the mainland, the french colonial government built, since 1861, prisons for fighters of resistance movements.
















one of fighters in the anti french movement back then is a young girl: Võ Thị Sáu. she was born 1933 in Long Thọ (South Vietnam), joining the resistance when she was 14. by a failed attempt to kill a local government chief she was arrested, sentenced to death and brought to Côn Đảo island.






4am, in the early hours of January 23, 1952, Võ Thị Sáu was brought to execution place. she was 21.






Remember Võ Thị Sáu.













the grave of Võ Thị Sáu on Côn Đảo island.


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## Viet

parade of army unit with a short variant of israeli rifles, I believe.






ZSU23-4 self-propelled artillery against aerial targets






visiting army museum, exibition.


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> parade of army unit with a short variant of israeli rifles, I believe.


Those are Uzi SMG variant , probably Uzi Pro 
A self-produced RPK , code name TUL-1


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Those are Uzi SMG variant , probably Uzi Pro
> A self-produced RPK , code name TUL-1


Ah ok. Uzi Short distance weapon. The soldiers are paratroopers, aren't they? Not sure about the uniform.


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## Viet

_Today I post here a report from a website called "Research and Analysis on the DPRK Leadership". recently, a rare visit of guest to Hanoi from one of the most isolated countries on this planet: Gen. Pak Yong Sik, in his postion, I believe, the chief of North Korean Armed Forces. Gen. Pak Yong Sik reportely said “very impressed" with the development of Vietnam Armed Forces. He might want joint military exercises in the Yellow Sea?_









*Gen. Pak Yong Sik and KPA Delegation Meet Vietnam’s President and Minister of Defense*




Gen. Pak Yong Sik, Minister of the People’s Armed Forces, (left) sheiks hands with Vietnamese President Trương Tấn Sang in Hanoi on November 27, 2015 (Photo: Office of the President of Vietnam).

Minister of the People’s Armed Forces Gen. Pak Yong Sik and a delegation of the Korean People’s Army [KPA] met with Vietnam’s President Trương Tấn Sang on November 27 (Friday). Also attending the meeting were DPRK Ambassador to Vietnam Kim Myong Gil, senior Vietnamese government officials and senior officers of the Vietnam People’s Army [VPA]. The KPA delegation’s visit is also marking the 65th anniversary of DPRK-Vietnam relations.





Vietnamese President Trương Tấn Sang (right) talks with Gen. Pak Yong Sik in Hanoi on November 27, 2015 (Photo: Office of the President of Vietnam).


According to KCNA, President Sang said that “friendly and cooperative relations between the two countries established by President Ho Chi Minh and President Kim Il Sung (Kim Il-so’ng) are now steadily growing stronger under the deep care of the top leaders of the two countries” and he noted “it is the consistent stand of the Vietnamese leadership to attach importance to the traditional relations of friendship and cooperation between the two countries and steadily boost them.” President Trương Tấn Sang also noted that the “the Vietnamese party, government and people are pleased with the achievements made by the army and people of the DPRK in their efforts for carrying out the cause of socialist construction” and he expressed his “conviction that victory belongs to the DPRK under the wise leadership of Marshal Kim Jong Un (Kim Cho’ng-u’n).”

According to the Vietnamese government, Gen. Pak Yong Sik remarked that he and the KPA delegation were “very impressed with the economic development, social security and national defense of Vietnam, particularly its emphasis in party building and development of the military.” Gen Pak thanked Vietnam for its support of the DPRK during the years and he “affirmed his personal support to contribute greatly to building relations between the DPRK and Vietnam.”





Vietnam’s Minister of Defense Gen. Phùng Quang Thanh (right) shakes hands with Gen. Pak Yong Sik (left) on November 27, 2015 (Photo: VNA).


Earlier during the day, Gen. Pak and the KPA delegation met with Gen. Phùng Quang Thanh, Minister of Defense, the Vice Chief of the VPA General Staff and other senior VPA officers. According to KCNA, “both sides exchanged views on the issue of boosting exchange and cooperation between the armies of the two countries and reached a consensus of views on the matters discussed.” Gen. Phùng, according to the MOD, said that “Vietnam attaches great importance to the traditional relations, nurtured by President Ho Chi Minh and President Kim Il Sung” and Gen. Pak “expressed with the pleasure that this was his first visit to Vietnam and see the country’s socio-economic development.”





Senior MOD and VPA officials (left) meet with a KPA delegation on November 27, 2015 (Photo: MOD/VNA).


Pak Yong Sik emphasized that DPRK-Vietnam relations were one of traditional friendship, “nurtured by elder generations which should be maintained and actively promoted.” According to the Vietnamese government, the KPA and VPA discussed “issues of common concern” and “reviewed the results of cooperation between the KPA and VPA which actively contribute to strengthening of relations between the two countries.” Gen. Pak and Gen. Phùng “agreed to continue to maintain traditional relations through enhanced exchanges, visits, student exchange, cultural and sports cooperation.”





Gen. Pak Yong Sik (right) participates in a formal welcome ceremony on November 27, 2015 (Photo: MOD/VNA).


Gen. Pak Yong Sik participated in a VPA welcome ceremony. Gen. Pak and the KPA delegation also attended a reception hosted the Ministry of Defense and they also conducted several tours of VPA locales.


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## Aqsuperman

probably a American made M2 or Chinese copy Type 31


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## Viet

_more boats coming for the Coast Guard_







Sông Thu Shipyard






obviously a US warship







Coast Guard Force gets multi-purpose vessel 
November, 30 2015 13:56:00






_Deputy Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, the Netherlands Ambassador in Viet Nam, and officials from the defence ministry, the Viet Nam Coast Guard Force and the Song Thu Shipyard Corporation attend a ceremony organised to launch a multi-purpose vessel, CBS 8005, for the Viet Nam Coast Guard Force, in Da Nang yesterday. — VNS Photo Cong Thanh _

DA NANG (VNS) — The defence ministry and the Song Thu Shipyard Corporation launched a multi-purpose vessel, CBS 8005, for the Viet Nam Coast Guard Force at a ceremony yesterday.

It's the second ship that the Da Nang-based corporation has built for the Coast Guard Force to improve law enforcement on the sea. The building of the vessel took 12 months.

Deputy Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc highly appreciated the efforts taken by workers and staff of Song Thu Corporation, and the support and co-operation extended by the Netherlands government and Dutch shipyard firm Damen Group.

"The launch of the ship today marks the growth and development of the military industry, the local ship building industry and the Coast Guard Force. It will help to develop the marine economy, while fostering protection of the country's sea and islands," Phuc said.

"I express my thanks to the Netherlands government and the experts and engineers from the Damen Group for ensuring support and technology transfer in the ship-building industry," he said.

He said the ship was one of seven large vessels the government had invested in to build a powerful Viet Nam Coast Guard Force by 2020.

He said the Coast Guard Force should give top priority to the country's sovereignty over the sea and islands, marine security, law enforcement on the sea, and fighting criminals and drug traffickers as well as search and rescue efforts on the sea.

The Coast Guard Force and the Song Thu ship-building firm, he said, should seek funds from different sources outside the state budget to develop a powerful fleet to deal with increasing complications and tensions in the East Sea.

The CSB 8005 ship, which is 90.5m long and 14m wide, is the most modern convenience ship capable of carrying 2,200 deadweight tonnage (DWT) and working 40 days and nights over 5,000km.






It has a helipad and a maximum speed of 21 nautical miles per hour. The ship can handle even the ninth wave and grade 12 winds (118km-132km per hour).

The Deputy PM also witnessed the signing of a contract between the Song Thu Corporation and the Damen Group for the building of four Azimuth Stern-Drive Tug (ASD) ships for export to the European market.

Last year, the local ship–building firm launched four tug-ships for the Viet Nam Coast Guard.

The Da Nang-based corporation, which is a major ship-builder in Viet Nam, has built more than 40 vessels for export, including fast crew supply ships, rescue ships, salvage tugs and drive tugs, besides patrol boats, for the Middle East, South America, Europe and South Africa, as well as the domestic market. — VNS


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## Viet

hungry? not too bad, the army food.






lunch






SU-22 fighter jets on patrol






the Airforce needs more money, I believe. too many old stuffs in use.







new mixes with old.






spade on the shoulder, seems time hasn´t changed much since world war I for the Army.






12,7mm machine gun


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## Aqsuperman

A new Su-30 regiment is getting up and running........somewhere..........


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## Viet

A branch of US Special Forces, the Black Berets, return to the past to seek the future. Deja-vu. Let see how it goes, how thing develops, if the US Armed Forces one day hold joint drills with the Vietnam Army. Considering how China aggressively advances a policy of intimidation in the region, towards Vietnam, the day may come sooner than expected. We need a peaceful environment, another 20 years of economic development to get there where we want to. My personal opinion.



*Army's 5th Special Forces Group to Resurrect Vietnam-Era Beret Flash*
*



Dec 01, 2015 | by Bryant Jordan *





The Army's 5th Special Forces Group's existing beret flash (left) is a black shield-shaped embroidered item with a semicircular base. The new flash (right) reverts back to include alternating yellow and scarlet stripes. (Army Institute of Heraldry)

The 5th Special Forces Group is headed back to its Vietnam past for its future beret flash.

The all-black U-shaped shield it has worn on its Green Berets since the mid-1980s is being retired in favor of the Vietnam-era flash that was both a nod toward the Republic of Vietnam as well as the two Special Forces groups that preceded the 5th into the war.

"We are going to be reverting back to what we wore during the Vietnam conflict," Sgt. Jacob Mahaffey, a spokesman for the group, told Military.com. "It may be in the April or May time frame."

An announcement posted Nov. 18 on Facebook noted the change would occur during a March 23 ceremony at Gabriel Field, Fort Campbell, Kentucky.

Mahaffey said the date is subject to change and that the service would likely announce a date certain this week.

"Everyone I've talked to around here is fine with" the change, he said. "A lot of the older guys I've talked to, the veterans, are really excited about it. It means more to the group than the solid black."

Cliff Newman, executive director of the Special Forces Association, said 2016 will be "the 55th anniversary of the 5th Special Forces Group, and this change is to honor that history and especially those who did not return."

Retired Col. John Tobin, president of the association, said the change was done "within the 5th SFG [Association] and the Regiment."

"I would not presume to speak for the active duty troops concerning the matter," he wrote in an email.

Within the SF community, there is disagreement over the colors and pattern of the Vietnam Era flash -- three red stripes divided and bordered by yellow stripes. The scheme is same as the flag of the Republic of Vietnam.

But the association states the yellow and red stripes pay honor to the 1st and 7th Special Forces Groups, respectively, which deployed to Vietnam prior to the 5th going over in 1964 -- not the flag.

When the band was struck from the flash in the mid-80s, however, it was 5th SFG Commander Col. James Guest who attributed the colors and pattern to the South Vietnamese flag.

Guest argued that the colors of another country's flag should not be part of a Special Forces flash and also pointed out that the flag and the Republic of Vietnam no longer existed, according to a posting on the website ProfessionalSoldiers.com, which cites as its source the 1990 book, "Special Forces of the U.S. Army," by Ian Sutherland.

On the same website, which is mostly private, one writer said the only reason he could think of for the change "is that Hollywood has made that flash famous."

"People that have no idea who the [Green Berets] are or what Special Forces is recognize that flash" from movies, wrote someone identified as Team Sergeant.

"If that's what 5th SFG (A)'s leadership thinks is important, that's their business," wrote another commenter identified as Peregrino. "Personally, I think it's indefensible (translated as "stupid beyond belief") but then what do I know. After all, I left 5th for 7th in 1983 and never looked back."

But if history -- in particular Vietnam history -- at the heart of it, wrote another identified as CW3SF, "20 yrs from now they will have to bring back the black flash for all of the [Global War on Terror] vets."

_--Bryant Jordan can be reached at bryant.jordan@military.com. Follow him on Twitter at @bryantjordan._


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## Aqsuperman

RPG rounds in plastic container


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## Viet

*Submarine*







Operating Submarines is a challenging task as sub is one of the most complicated and sophisticated weapon systems in every Armed Forces. Espcially for Vietnam Navy, that is new to the game. knowing or unknowing the enviroment a sub operates decides about defeat or victory.

Operating a sub is like driving a car on a highway, keeping your eyes shut just relying on your natural senses. And if you feel there is a car behind you wanting to overtake, you accelerate the car a bit.

it is about making maps of the sea floor. every meter. Every inch in the SC Sea.

the Vietnam Navy´s 6th squad located in Hai Phong city has 4 SSS systems in operation that are used for analysis of the seabed structures in maritime archaeology. its computers have water samples collected at different depths to identify levels of pH, gas and salinity, properties of seabed terrain, sea currents and hydrometeorology data. it also contain coordinates of wrecked ships, underwater oil pipelines, telecommunication cables, and electricity lines on the seabed. survey ships collect electromagnetic levels of different areas, the speed of sound underwater, physical and chemical characteristics of sea water, temperature, water pressure, sea currents, and winds.

the survey reveals there are underwater offshore mountains that reach about 4,700 meters, forming a complicated structure on the seabed.

All the data is decoded and mapped onto three-dimensional nautical charts.

computer screens show data coding in colors depending on depths. Other screens displayed objects lying on the seabed. the speed of sound varies upon different circumstances, runs normally at 1,400-1,600 meters per second. all are very useful when detecting and determining the distance to enemy ships or submarines by collecting sonar signals.

releasing a robotic shark into the waters.






a team dropping equipments to record data of the sea.





the office of the *6th Squad.*


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## Aqsuperman

well , no need to pay land-traffic maintance fee any more :v


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


>



White cubes... What is that?


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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> White cubes... What is that?


it´s tofu my friend.
4 Things I've Learned About Tofu While Living in Vietnam — Maker Tour: Part Two | The Kitchn

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## Aqsuperman

In a maintaince depot


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## Viet

*Coast Guard*

December, 3 2015. Built by Z173 shipyard, launching 4 new TT-400 class vessels for the Coast Guard. I believe the production rate of vessels the domestic shipyards churn out has increased a lot. Now that would be nice if they can produce big warships. @Aqsuperman have you heard anything? what about the plan of building many Sigmar class frigates?


Specs:

420-tonne, *TT400 class*, top speed of 34.5 knots, standard range of 2,500 nautical miles at 15 knots.
Each vessel, which can operate continuously for 30 days and nights in a row at sea, can carry a crew of 35. Armed with two 14.5 mm air-defense guns, one AK 176 76 mm automatic cannon, and one radar-guided, six-barreled 30 mm AK 630 close-in weapon system turret.


4036, 4037






4038, 4039







Inside the shipyard Z173


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## Viet

a new idea from the army. 23mm anti aircraft twin gun _ ZU-23-2 _mounted on a kamaz truck, voila, we have a mobile anti aircraft attilery targing low-flying enemy targets.



















our people have apparently taken the idea from other armies that operate this russian developed attillery, such as the Polish Armed Forces.


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## Aqsuperman

one of many relic of war , still dangerous though


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## Viet

recently at the Sino-Vietnam border. apart of a private event happening here I don´t want to mention. if one looks at the clothings, both vietnamese and chinese border guards have somewhat similar uniforms. truely comrades. ha ha ha.







encounter between japanese (white) and vietnamese (dark blue) members of coast guards. interesting, one would expect, japanese, thanks to a long period of peace as well as to better health care and nutrition, would be taller than vietnamese on average, wo suffered long period of wars, terrible health care and low nutrition generelly would be shorter.







exile vietnamese if they are grown up in western countries are tall on average. I have no statistic data, just my observation. take this guy for example: Bao Nguyen. 35 years old. he is the mayor of Garden Grove, California, and now nominated as candidate for the upcoming election of the US Congress. California's 46th district. the seat currently held by Senate hopeful Rep. Loretta Sanchez. in picture. I wish him all the best. the more we have our people in the US politics the better we can influence the US policy.


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## Viet

*"Good Morning, Vietnam’ for Netanyahu? PM Invited to Visit Asian Nation *
December 3, 2015 1:44 pm





_PRIME MINISTER Benjamin Netanyahu greets Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Hoang Trung Hai at the Knesset this week.. (photo credit:KOBI GIDEON/GPO)_






_Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Hoàng Trung Hải (back, right) and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu watch Israeli and Vietnamese officials sign a memorandum of understanding between the two countries on diplomatic and political dialogue. Photo: Kobi Gideon/GPO._

During a meeting at the Knesset in Jerusalem on Wednesday, Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Hoàng Trung Hải invited Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to make an official visit to the southeast Asian nation, while Netanyahu invited Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyễn Tấn Dũng to visit the Jewish state.

At Wednesday’s meeting, the Israeli and Vietnamese foreign ministries signed a memorandum of understanding on diplomatic and political dialogue.

“I welcome this formal expansion of our dialogue,” Netanyahu said. “Our trade is already robust both ways, which I think is the healthiest. I think there are many opportunities between Vietnam and Israel in so many fields, in almost every field. And we look forward to doing this and we believe our countries can seize the future individually, but better together.”

Netanyahu proposed Israeli-Vietnamese collaboration in areas including R&D, water, biotechnology, and agriculture.

Israel opened a defense attaché office in Vietnam earlier this year.

‘Good Morning, Vietnam’ for Netanyahu? PM Invited to Visit Asian Nation | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com


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## Viet

Launching a new class of transport ship: CSB 7011.

after one year under construction, built by Z173 shipyard, length 90 m, wide 14 m, displacement 4,300 tons, speed 13,5 knots, range 6,000 miles, capable to operate 60 days and nights, withstanding strong wind of 7-9.


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## Aqsuperman

although a Police vehicle , in case of emergency , putting heavy machingeun on top plus several smoke grenade and we have a APC ready to roll


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## Viet

*Vietnam is Israel’s closest Asean partner – Muhammad Zulfikar Rakhmat*
Published: 6 December 2015 12:00 PM

Growing ties could help narrow Vietnam’s development gap.

Israel’s relations with Asean countries have not received a great deal of attention. In reality, however, there is an increasing tendency of Israel to benefit from the growing economies of Southeast Asia.

Relations between Israel and Vietnam typify this trend. While many countries in the region have been reluctant, or at least careful, in pursuing relationship with the Jewish state, Vietnam enjoys a relatively strong relationship with Israel.

Even though contacts between Israel and Vietnam can be traced back to the 1970s, when a large number of Vietnamese migrated to Israel to escape prosecution and torture, formal bilateral cooperation between the two countries was established in mid-1993.

Since then, Hanoi and Tel Aviv have witnessed remarkable developments in their relationship with reciprocal visits at various levels and the establishment of diplomatic representative offices.

Interestingly, an important part of cooperation between Israel and Vietnam is the military. Even though Israel’s arms overtures to Vietnam have only recently increased, it has a long rooted history of military contacts with Hanoi, particularly with the presence of people of Vietnamese decent serving in the Israeli Defence Force (IDF).

The most important development in Israeli-Vietnamese military cooperation was the 2012 visit by Israel’s Ministry of Defence general director Udi Shani and representatives from Sibat Defence Export and Defence Cooperation to see potential prospects in Vietnam.

A plan was subsequently made by Israel Weapon Industries Ltd to open a light-arms plant with an investment of over US$100 million (RM422 million). The plant helps to manufacture and to supply Israel’s AS advanced version of the *Galil infantry rifle*.

The most recent development took place early this year when the Vietnamese government purchased an air defence missile system to enhance its air defence capacity.

What is also remarkable is that* Israel’s Air Defence* and Air Force Service conducted an English course for its units assigned to receive, manage, and exploit these new weapons and equipment in Hanoi in April this year.

Given Vietnam’s large military and obsolete weapons systems, Israel could be expected to play a considerable role in upgrading the country’s defence systems and its technologies. Thus it is not surprising that last year the two countries signed an MoU on defence cooperation and Israel has opened a *defence attaché* in Vietnam.

Economic relations have sharply increased in recent years, especially after the signing of a bilateral economic and trade agreement in 2004. This was further strengthened in 2009 when both governments inked an agreement on double tax avoidance, creating a transparent and healthy legal environment for their businesses to increase transactions.

Recent reports suggest that the trade volume between the two countries is expected to be more than US$1 billion, with Israeli exports jumping by 120%.

Vietnam mainly exports agricultural products, garments, and electronic equipment while it imports fertiliser, machinery, equipment, as well as electronic parts from Israel.

There are hundreds of Israeli companies, such as Iscar, that have made their way to Vietnam. In 2011, Israel and Vietnam also signed a US$250 million agreement involving financial protocol and maritime development.

The deal came on the heel of increasing demand in Vietnam for Israeli products, especially agricultural products and technologies. This economic cooperation is expected to flourish in the coming years as both governments recently agreed on a free-trade agreement.

Israel has been a considerable partner in Vietnam’s agricultural and dairy industries.

Israeli firm SAE Afikim, for instance, has been running the US$500 million project to supply 300 million litres of milk every year, produced by imported cows at 12 state-of-the-art mega dairies and a milk processing plants – all built with Israeli equipment and expertise.

It was reported that the project is the largest of its kind in the world and the biggest ever undertaken by an Israeli firm. Additionally, a group of Israeli experts have also conducted courses on agriculture in Vietnam. There are also plans to expand cooperation into the fields of aquaculture and other fishery-related spheres.

People-to-people exchanges have also contributed to the strengthening of the relationship. Besides a large number of Vietnamese workers in Israel, there are frequent meetings between politicians, businessmen, and academics.

Both countries have also exerted efforts to promote their tourism to each other. To ease air connectivity, Air Vietnam has also opened a representative office in the Jewish state.

In more recent years, Israel’s ties with Vietnam have expanded into different realms. Even though not widely reported, education has become an important element in Israel-Vietnam relations.

It is reported that there are approximately *2,000 Vietnamese students *studying agriculture in Israel. Other exchanges are taking place in the realms of culture, biotech, information technology, and communications.

Relations have also been strengthened by humanitarian aid. In 2006 and 2007, for example, a team of 54 doctors and nurses from Israel headed out to nine remote areas of Vietnam to provide desperately needed medical care to Vietnamese.

Besides providing medical care as well as distributed foods and clothing, the teams also provided a farm animal to every household in these areas to offer a long-term economic base to the impoverished villagers.

Looking forward, Vietnam will continue to be Israel’s closest ally in Asean. While the bloc’s majority Muslim countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia face pressures and oppositions from inside, Vietnam does not have a similar challenge.

In tandem with the forthcoming Asean Economic Community, Vietnam offers Israel not only a gateway to large investment opportunities, but also provides a way to expand to the wider Asean region. With no sign to an end to the instability in the Middle East, it is not surprising that Israel sees the growing economies of Southeast Asia as prudent alternatives.

Meanwhile from Vietnam’s view, Israel’s growing presence is welcome. Israel’s top-notch renewable and farming technologies are fundamental to realising its agricultural abilities. Tel Aviv could also offer an access to untapped consumer markets and perhaps a hub for expansion in the wider Middle East.

Simultaneously, Israel’s ventures are waited as the country is in need of billions of dollars in investment to revamp its economy and bring down unemployment.

All in all, this expanding relationship could help minimise the developmental gap between Vietnam and other Asean countries. – December 6, 2015.

_* This is the personal opinion of the writer or publication and does not necessarily represent the views of The Malaysian Insider._

- See more at: Vietnam is Israel’s closest Asean partner – Muhammad Zulfikar Rakhmat - The Malaysian Insider




--

I think this is a part of Vietnam history that nobody of us can be proud of. in the years of chaos, when millions of vietnamese fleeing the country. thanks to the government of Israel, a small group of vietnamese refugees were accepted arriving in Israel in 1977. Israel gave, not so many, 360 Vietnamese boat people refugee status, and a bit later, citizenship, full rights and government-subsidized apartments.

35 years on, where are Israel’s Vietnamese refugees? | The Times of Israel
















Israeli Prime minister Menachem Begin greets Vietnamese refugees who were absorbed in Afula, June 26, 1980.






and today. the tinny vietnamese community is said does not want to remember of the dark times. but that´s understandable, actually, nobody of us wants to talk about it, about the past.





some of them in service of Israeli Armed Forces.

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## Aqsuperman

a line of Mobile Police , AK rifles and net-shogun are visible


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## Thao Nguyen

Barmaley said:


> White cubes... What is that?


a kind of Tofu, food made from soybean


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## Viet

Sea trials completed. transported by a heavy lift vessel Rolldock Star (a Dutch Company), the fifth of the six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarine, codenamed HQ-186 Khanh Hoa, taking a long way starting from the Baltic Sea, expected to arrive the home port, the Cam-Ranh bay at the end of the year 2015. Soon.








Meeting of the General Staff. Major changes are expected following the shift of political powers in the leadership scheduled at next year: the election of the posts of VCP General Secretary, President and Prime Minister, whereas the first post is the crown to grab. if the current PM gets it, things will be very interesting. I wish him all the best. he is the best man suitable for the job.







the Army and the Newspaper of the Army.

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## Aqsuperman

Amphibious assaunt :v


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## Aqsuperman

With a 76mm , it main role are to support the infantry , elimating strong point and soft-skin , light armored vehicle . Should enemy heavy AFV and tanks appear , anti-tank team and tanks should be call into action


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## Viet

one example how Vietnam shipyards have come a long way: meeting high European standard, in just 6 months two tug vessels were built by the Damen Song Cam Shipyard, and just delivered to Svitzer UK company.

specs:

ASD 3212 class, 32 metre, designed for push-pull, escorting, towing and fire-fighting operations, feature a 12.2 metre beam and speed of 14 knots. For propulsion, they are equipped with two Caterpillar 3516C HD TA/D engines with a total power of 5,050 bkW at 1,800 rpm.

Svitzer orders two more Damen ASD tugs - Marine Log

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## Viet

the example above is to show, I think, given the US transferring the technology we also can produce aluminium vessels. the US company Metal Shark is currently producing multiple 45 Defiant class vessels for Vietnam Coast Guard. all vessels costing $18 million are part of a larger Foreign Military Sales (FMS) contract for Vietnam.

Workboats and Patrol Boats: Small but Mighty - Marine Log


Metal Shark 45 ft Defiant


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## Aqsuperman

real man no need tripod :v


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## Viet

*UAV*

developed by Vietnam´s Academy of Science and Technology, domestic made UAV HS-6L first model is put to trials. The first long range vehicle.

specs: wing span 22m, Rotax 914 engine (petrol four-cylinder, four-stroke liquid- / air-cooled motor, 4-8 rotors), max range 4,000km, max 35 operation hours, guided by GPS, onboard radar as well as rotating 360 degrees camera, live images can be sent back to ground station or recorded on memory cards. maximum takeoff weight of 1,250 kg. First UAV patrols over the SC Sea are scheduled for Q2 2016.


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## Aqsuperman

Speaking about UAV , this is 1 of the few early sample


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Speaking about UAV , this is 1 of the few early sample


Yeah...inevitably every baby becomes a young boy. Ha ha ha. On serious note, the Navy needs UAV permanent staying in the air, 24 hours, day and night, to monitor activities on the highsea. Can't wait to see the bird in action. With 4,000 km range, theoretically HS-6L drone can take off on the mainland, flying to the spratly island group and return.


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> Yeah...inevitably every baby becomes a young boy. Ha ha ha. On serious note, the Navy needs UAV permanent staying in the air, 24 hours, day and night, to monitor activities on the highsea. Can't wait to see the bird in action. With 4,000 km range, theoretically HS-6L drone can take off on the mainland, flying to the spratly island group and return.



Good for Vietnam, wonder if Vietnamese Army is going to weaponize it...

I hope Vietnam will be able to aquire KEPD 350 in case Taurus developers a launcher, hitting war ships and land targets from 500 kilometers away *evil grin*

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Good for Vietnam, wonder if Vietnamese Army is going to weaponize it...
> 
> I hope Vietnam will be able to aquire KEPD 350 in case Taurus developers a launcher, hitting war ships and land targets from 500 kilometers away *evil grin*


Never say no. I believe that armed drones will come. It's just a natural evolution.


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## Aqsuperman

there are recon UAVs , there are attack UAVs...........and there are these guys............we created them and shot them :v


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## Viet

some more pics of the long range HS-6L UAV drone.





























Rotax 914 engine


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## Viet

the US MQ-1 Predator has a same Rotax 914 engine, 4 cylinders, 115 PS. the drone can reach 217km/h, and stay midair for 24 hours. that would be in the future having such nice such drones in the inventory.

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## Viet

with red/white painting and equipment on-board, the HS-6L UAV drone is ready to fly.








close pictures of air-defence unit. old equipments mixed with new components, voila, why buy new weapons if thing can be done like this. I believe the land army still has more or less the same stocks of weapons it acquired 30 years ago. money goes elsewhere, such as navy and airforce.


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## William Hung

Anyone know who is running the LD1 facebook page?


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## Aqsuperman

Some asshole name Thế and Trang , I believe . You need something ?

In a reserve gun depot , we can find pretty much everythings , i believe we still keep some example of WW1-era HMG for "emergency usage"

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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> Some asshole name Thế and Trang , I believe . You need something ?
> 
> In a reserve gun depot , we can find pretty much everythings , i believe we still keep some example of WW1-era HMG for "emergency usage"



Those WW1-era HMG are in poor condition, they are not fit for modern infrantry, but good enough for vehicles, mount it on a tank or APC and when will production of Galil ACE start in Vietnam?


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## Nike

.30 cal browning gpmg


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> when will production of Galil ACE start in Vietnam


Already started , just slow as snail though :v would take years to completely replace all the AK and that is if we go with the current verison without futher modifications 

A Galil gun cage that got delivered to our Political Officer Academy


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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> Already started , just slow as snail though :v would take years to completely replace all the AK and that is if we go with the current verison without futher modifications
> 
> A Galil gun cage that got delivered to our Political Officer Academy



Why is it slow? If you can produce AK's at decent rate(?) then Galil ACE should't be that slow to produce...

Did Vietnam design own weapons, any?


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Why is it slow? If you can produce AK's at decent rate(?) then Galil ACE should't be that slow to produce...


While Gali Ace and AK share some similar parts , most of our armory machines are from Soviet-era . Producing new rifle will still take plenty of time to set up production procedure , testing and maintaince

yeah we do desigh some..........mostly combine old stuff together to produce something new-ish 
Below are some of them , mounting 105mm M101 and ZU 23 2 on truck to provide them with mobility . We also produce some certain special stuff for our Special Force


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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> While Gali Ace and AK share some similar parts , most of our armory machines are from Soviet-era . Producing new rifle will still take plenty of time to set up production procedure , testing and maintaince
> 
> yeah we do desigh some..........mostly combine old stuff together to produce something new-ish
> Below are some of them , mounting 105mm M101 and ZU 23 2 on truck to provide them with mobility . We also produce some certain special stuff for our Special Force



Your goverment/army too cheap to upgrade their production capabilities?


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## AViet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Why is it slow? If you can produce AK's at decent rate(?) then Galil ACE should't be that slow to produce...
> 
> Did Vietnam design own weapons, any?



In the past, Vietnamese scientists designed some unique weapons, possibly only in Vietnam, to fight the war against the US and the French.

In modern times, I think Viettel and several institutes are involved in R&D and manufacturing
- Radar
- Communication equipment
- Drone / Combat drone
- Battle ships / gun boat / fast boat


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Your goverment/army too cheap to upgrade their production capabilities?


More like the Airforce and the Navy got priority for upgrades , the Army can only relax and wait :v in the meanwhile , refurbishing and maintaince current equipments plus partial replacement will have to do


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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Why is it slow? If you can produce AK's at decent rate(?) then Galil ACE should't be that slow to produce...



We are talking hundred thousands of GALIL here, for an army of 500 000 soldiers. If they produce 50 000 units a years, that will take at least 10 years (without adding reserves and sparing parts) . It not worth it to expand your production to 200-300 000 units a years, what you going do with all the factory equipments after you finish the target number? And there no rush tot do the transition from AK to GALIL. So the word SLOW shouldn't be apply here. Im pretty sure the next couple years, the main elite units will all have their hands on it


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## yugocrosrb95

Mokaman said:


> We are talking hundred thousands of GALIL here, for an army of 500 000 soldiers. If they produce 50 000 units a years, that will take at least 10 years (without adding reserves and sparing parts) . It not worth it to expand your production to 200-300 000 units a years, what you going do with all the factory equipments after you finish the target number? And there no rush tot do the transition from AK to GALIL. So the word SLOW shouldn't be apply here. Im pretty sure the next couple years, the main elite units will all have their hands on it



200-300K per year is too much except if you can sell it to someone, 50K is too low, 100K a year should be ideal to upgrade the army in 5 years. 10 years is too slow.


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## Aqsuperman

That have to be depend on current situaition . For now Airforce and Navy got the best stuff available , the Army got whatever left of the budget 
Anyway , here are some pic of our "emergency reserve" :v


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam builds military muscle to face China*
By Greg Torode

Vietnam builds military muscle to face China - Yahoo News

XUAN MAI, Vietnam (Reuters) - Vietnam's military is steeling itself for conflict with China as it accelerates a decade-long modernization drive, Hanoi's biggest arms buildup since the height of the Vietnam War.

The ruling Communist Party's goal is to deter its giant northern neighbor as tensions rise over the disputed South China Sea, and if that fails, to be able to defend itself on all fronts, senior officers and people close to them told Reuters.

Vietnam's strategy has moved beyond contingency planning. Key units have been placed on "high combat readiness" - an alert posture to fend off a sudden attack - including its elite Division 308, which guards the mountainous north.

The two countries fought a bloody border war in 1979. The likely flashpoint this time is in the South China Sea, where they have rival claims in the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos.

"We don't want to have a conflict with China and we must put faith in our policy of diplomacy," one senior Vietnamese government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told Reuters. "But we know we must be ready for the worst."

Most significantly, Hanoi is creating a naval deterrent largely from scratch with the purchase of six advanced Kilo-class submarines from Russia.

In recent months, the first of those submarines have started patrolling the South China Sea, Vietnamese and foreign military officials said, the first confirmation the vessels have been in the strategic waterway.

DIVISION 308

Militarily, the tensions are palpable northwest of Hanoi at the headquarters of Division 308, Vietnam's most elite military unit, where senior army officers talk repeatedly about "high combat readiness".

The phrase is on billboards beneath images of missiles and portraits of Vietnam's late revolutionary founder, Ho Chi Minh, and its legendary military hero, General Vo Nguyen Giap.

Perched between Vietnam's craggy northern mountains and the ancient rice paddies of the Red River Delta, 308 is Vietnam's oldest division and still effectively guards the northern approaches to Hanoi.

Reflecting deep-set official sensibilities towards offending Beijing, one senior officer, Colonel Le Van Hai, said he could not talk about China. But Vietnam was ready to repel any foreign force, he told Reuters during a rare visit by a foreign reporter. 

"Combat readiness is the top priority of the division, of the Ministry of Defense and the country. We can deal with any sudden or unexpected situation ... We are ready," he said.

"High combat readiness", along with references to the "new situation", increasingly feature in lectures by senior officers during visits to military bases and in publications of the People's Army of Vietnam. The phrases also surface in talks with foreign military delegations, diplomats said.

"When Vietnam refers to the 'new situation', they are using coded language to refer to the rising likelihood of an armed confrontation or clash with China, particularly in the South China Sea," said Carl Thayer, a professor at Australia's Defense Force Academy in Canberra who has studied Vietnam's military since the late 1960s.

While ramping up combat readiness, Hanoi's once-reclusive generals are reaching out to a broad range of strategic partners. Russia and India are the main source of advanced weapons, training and intelligence cooperation. Hanoi is also building ties with the United States and its Japanese, Australian and Filipino allies, as well as Europe and Israel.

The outreach covers weapons purchases, ship visits and intelligence sharing but will have its limits. Hanoi shuns formal military alliances under a staunchly independent foreign policy.

Vietnam is seeking more Russian jet fighter-bombers and is in talks with European and U.S. arms manufacturers to buy fighter and maritime patrol planes and unarmed surveillance drones, sources have told Reuters. It has also recently upgraded and expanded air defenses, including obtaining early warning surveillance radars from Israel and advanced S-300 surface-to-air missile batteries from Russia.

Indeed, increases in Vietnam's military spending have outstripped its South East Asian neighbors over the last decade, according to estimates by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).

"They are not doing this for national day parades ... they are building real military capabilities," said Tim Huxley, a regional security expert at the International Institute of Strategic Studies in Singapore.

OIL RIG FLASHPOINT

While communist parties rule both Vietnam and China and share political bonds, the two countries have a history marked by armed conflict and long periods of lingering mistrust.

Fresh academic research has revealed how the Sino-Vietnamese war in 1979 was more intense than is widely known, rumbling on into the mid-1980s. The two sides then clashed at sea in 1988 when China occupied its first holdings in the Spratly archipelago of the South China Sea - a defeat still acutely felt in Hanoi.

China also took full control of another South China Sea island chain, the Paracels, after a naval showdown with then South Vietnam in 1974. Hanoi still protests China's occupation.

More recently, China's placement of an oil rig in disputed waters for 10 weeks in the middle of last year sparked anti-Chinese riots across Vietnam.

The rig's placement on Vietnam's continental shelf 80 nautical miles from its coast was a game-changer, officials in Hanoi privately said, hardening suspicions about Chinese President Xi Jinping among political and military leaders.

Hanoi dispatched dozens of Vietnamese civilian vessels to confront the 70 coastguard and naval warships China sent to protect the oil rig in mid-2014.

"It was a reminder to all of us just how dangerous the South China Sea has become," said one retired U.S. naval officer.

For its part, China's military strategists have long been frustrated at the two dozen military outposts that Hanoi has fortified across the Spratlys since losing the Paracels in 1974, Chinese analysts say. China is building three air strips on man-made islands it is building on reefs in the Spratlys that it took from Vietnamese forces in 1988.

A statement to Reuters from China's Defense Ministry said the two militaries had close, friendly relations and China was willing to work hard with Vietnam for regional peace.

"Both sides have frank exchanges of view on the South China Sea ... both sides should look for a basic, lasting solution both sides can accept," the statement said.

China's historic claim to most of the South China Sea, expressed on maps as a nine-dash line, overlaps the exclusive economic zones of Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei. Taiwan also has claims in the area.

Some $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes through the waterway every year, including most of the oil imported by China, Japan and South Korea.

'PSYCHOLOGICAL UNCERTAINTY'

The importance to China of protecting its submarine base on Hainan Island - the projected home of its future nuclear armed submarine fleet - could be another flashpoint. Beijing also has jet fighters and many of its best warships stationed around Hainan Island. This South Sea Fleet is close to Vietnam's northern coast and its vital deep water access channels to the South China Sea and beyond.

Vietnamese generals make clear to foreign visitors they know their limitations. Two decades of double-digit increases in defense budgets have given China a vastly larger and better equipped navy, air force and army.

Foreign military envoys say they struggle to gauge Vietnam's actual capabilities and how well they are integrating complex new weapons. They are given little access beyond Hanoi's gilded staterooms.

Vietnamese military strategists talk of creating a "minimal credible deterrent" – raising the costs of any Chinese move against Vietnam, whether it is a naval confrontation or an attack across the 1,400-km (875-mile) northern land border.

If conflict did break out, Hanoi could target Chinese-flagged merchant container and oil ships in the South China Sea, said Thayer, who said he was told this by Vietnamese strategists.

The aim would be not to defeat China's superior forces but "to inflict sufficient damage and psychological uncertainty to cause Lloyd's insurance rates to skyrocket and for foreign investors to panic", Thayer said in a paper presented to a Singapore conference last month.

Vietnam's foreign ministry did not respond to requests for comment on this story.

(Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in Beijing and Ho Binh Minh and My Pham in Hanoi.; Editing by Dean Yates and Bill Tarrant.)


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## Barmaley

Vietnam planning to order another two Gepard-class frigates which is planned to be armed with Kalibr-NK cruise missiles. 
Btw, the 3 and 4 Gepard-class frigates which is currently under construction will be delivered to Vietnam in 2017 and 2018 respectively.


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## Viet

Hey Carlosa long time no see, how are things going. Good to see you here again.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Hey Carlosa long time no see, how are things going. Good to see you here again.



Thank you amigo, everything ok here, I've been quite busy with work and I will continue to be, but I do check things here.

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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> That have to be depend on current situaition . For now Airforce and Navy got the best stuff available , the Army got whatever left of the budget
> Anyway , here are some pic of our "emergency reserve" :v



M113's hull is aircraft grade aluminium, so it should be in good condition and engine's have come long away since 1960's from original M113's. If you put most powerful engine that can fit in M113's engine compartment then you add more armor on the front and ERA on the side also change to something more powerful for weaponry, something like 20-25 mm autocannon...


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> M113's hull is aircraft grade aluminium, so it should be in good condition and engine's have come long away since 1960's from original M113's. If you put most powerful engine that can fit in M113's engine compartment then you add more armor on the front and ERA on the side also change to something more powerful for weaponry, something like 20-25 mm autocannon...


Yup our Army has the same idea , still they want to retain it lightness . So far our friend in IWI manage to turn out several upgrade examples but usually ends up too heavy . BTR series will also require something to stay adaquate

Platoon firepower in 1 picture :v


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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> Yup our Army has the same idea , still they want to retain it lightness . So far our friend in IWI manage to turn out several upgrade examples but usually ends up too heavy . BTR series will also require something to stay adaquate
> 
> Platoon firepower in 1 picture :v


Too heavy? Why? Is original m113's amphibious? That's pointless nowadays and it isn't like M113's is whelled APC, its tracked...


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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> Vietnam planning to order another two Gepard-class frigates which is planned to be armed with Kalibr-NK cruise missiles.
> Btw, the 3 and 4 Gepard-class frigates which is currently under construction will be delivered to Vietnam in 2017 and 2018 respectively.


snail speed for the boats in my opinion
















...will take another year until the vessels are ready to join the Navy.


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## Viet

Infantry training


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> Infantry training



Your army needs a modern protective helmet...


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Your army needs a modern protective helmet...


man what you see is training helmet. for combats here are some:

Marine Corp







Infantry






Paratroopers


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> man what you see is training helmet. for combats here are some:
> 
> Marine Corp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infantry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paratroopers



Good... Though training helmet, do you use live ammunition? if so then if someone gets hit with a 14mm by accident... Game over.


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## William Hung

Info from an IWI official:

_In 2013, IWI established a complete production facility in Vietnam to support its supply of Galil 31/32 ACE assault rifles to replace the VietnamPeople's Army's (VPA's) AK-47s. The rifles are being manufactured at Factory Z111, which is based in the northern Thanh Hoa province and owned by the Ministry of Defence. Although not confirmed by IWI,Vietnam's programme to purchase the design of the rifle and to set up the manufacturing unit was reportedly worth around USD100 million.

Korol said IWI is currently winding up its involvement in the Vietnamese plant after enabling the local state-owned industry to reach full indigenisation in the programme, although the facility can also be adapted to produce other IWI products if required. Vietnam is expected to take sole responsibility for producing the rifles within the next few months.
_


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Too heavy? Why? Is original m113's amphibious? That's pointless nowadays and it isn't like M113's is whelled APC, its tracked...


Its moderately amphibious , serve well on the several swamp-like but important areas in our country . the higher up prefer that it can both stop bullet and charge thourgh those areas without being stuck 




yugocrosrb95 said:


> Good... Though training helmet, do you use live ammunition? if so then if someone gets hit with a 14mm by accident... Game over.


Well we do use some live ammuniton while on the firing range on training but that it . Its hard to accidently hit someone when you all shoot at the same direction 

12.7mm


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> snail speed for the boats in my opinion



There was almost one year delay, because of not delivering turbines from Ukraine, but this problem was solved and buildings continued. Add to this the fact that the project was modified to boost anti-submarine capabilities - which is also take some times.
PAKET-NK - is more likely will be installed on Gepard.
This is the first anti-torpedo hard killer system in the world and the best one.

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## Aqsuperman

Such a beautiful night :v


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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Your army needs a modern protective helmet...


That plastic helmet is more like a VPA tradition headwear, just like some armies in the world would wear berets or turbans and sometime they would go to combat wearing those things. A lot of armies don't wear combat helmets for jungle warfare because it's too humid and hot. Those VPA helmets are only good to protect from sun and rain, and I have huge respect to those NVA soldiers wearing those zero-protection helmets during Viet Nam wars and others conflicts...Life was cheap back then.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> Good... Though training helmet, do you use live ammunition? if so then if someone gets hit with a 14mm by accident... Game over.



This is just dumb what you just say...Helmet can't protect you 100% and have some protection for only less than half of your head. A good straight shot can go through it or how about a shot in the face... Helmet are good in combat to protect from shrapnel and to deflect some direct head shots...So what the point of 14mm accident? because your 14mm bullet is an intelligent bullet that find it way by himself to head only? Have you been in a military live firing practice?


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## Viet

a remarkable news article in the Washingon Post, as everyone knows meanwhile, TPP is more than economic pact, it also has geopolitical implications, while the treaty is as important as building a new Aircaft carrier for America (says US Defence Minister Ashton B. Carter), for Vietnam it is like buying new 10 Submarines (Public Security’s Strategy Institute, a VN think tank). In short TPP is a cheap way to increase defense posture without buying new weaponry.

Vietnam hopes trade deal will tip balance toward U.S., away from China - The Washington Post


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## yugocrosrb95

Mokaman said:


> That plastic helmet is more like a VPA tradition headwear, just like some armies in the world would wear berets or turbans and sometime they would go to combat wearing those things. A lot of armies don't wear combat helmets for jungle warfare because it's too humid and hot. Those VPA helmets are only good to protect from sun and rain, and I have huge respect to those NVA soldiers wearing those zero-protection helmets during Viet Nam wars and others conflicts...Life was cheap back then.



I didn't know they were plastic... That's worse than british world war one helmet...



> This is just dumb what you just say...Helmet can't protect you 100% and have some protection for only less than half of your head. A good straight shot can go through it or how about a shot in the face... Helmet are good in combat to protect from shrapnel and to deflect some direct head shots...So what the point of 14mm accident? because your 14mm bullet is an intelligent bullet that find it way by himself to head only? Have you been in a military live firing practice?



I am just saying you should't take any risk, wear helmets and body armor, the bipod could break or bullet fails to properly load and is still fired from improper position, these things can happen and have happened.


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> didn't know they were plastic... That's worse than british world war one helmet...


google "Army in Tropical Warfare" and tell me how many plastic helmet and fabric cap you see :v Humidity and heat are quite the pain in the butt in this type of climate , you can be fainted or dead from heat exhaustion long before an enemy bullet found you . Take it from a native resident my friend :3.............Still about this time every year , the weather is cold as fck :v 

And about "accidents" , yeah it happen but we prefer to use high discipline and careful maintaince to prevent them , bring too many equipment can sometime get into the soldier way of handling weapon and lead to accidents


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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> google "Army in Tropical Warfare" and tell me how many plastic helmet and fabric cap you see :v Humidity and heat are quite the pain in the butt in this type of climate , you can be fainted or dead from heat exhaustion long before an enemy bullet found you . Take it from a native resident my friend :3.............Still about this time every year , the weather is cold as fck :v



Its cold here too... Glad I am not russian or a swed...


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## Aqsuperman

looking forward to BMP-3 :v


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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> I didn't know they were plastic... That's worse than british world war one helmet...
> 
> 
> 
> I am just saying you should't take any risk, wear helmets and body armor, the bipod could break or bullet fails to properly load and is still fired from improper position, these things can happen and have happened.



You have more chance to die during mechanized infantry training than firing live, falling from a truck or IFV during a rough ride or get crush accidentally by an armor during a maneuver... The worse is nightime training. And all those grenades and explosive ordnances training that explode premature or by mistakes handling....Those stuffs are ways more worrisome and scarier than live firing accidents


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## Aqsuperman

a domestic upgrade of M16 variant


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## Aqsuperman

A close-up on Mobile Police S-5 , smoke grenade and a CCTV are visible


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> A close-up on Mobile Police S-5 , smoke grenade and a CCTV are visible


and the vehicle is heavy armored as I see.


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## Aqsuperman

Providing medium explosive firepower for the squad


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## Viet

Test firing Vietnam made Igla, solid fuel rocket motor, man-portable, an infrared homing surface-to-air missile for low altitude targets.




Hình ảnh Việt Nam thử nghiệm thành công tên lửa Igla.


for warplanes: a domestic improved TBK system (optic & television) with infrared sensors and ATS systems (automatic following the targets)




Mục tiêu bị tiêu diệt nhìn qua màn hình hệ thống TBK.


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## Aqsuperman

Soon , some Kamov will be replaced.........


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## Barmaley

Aqsuperman said:


> Soon , some Kamov will be replaced.........



Replaced with whom?


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## Viet

a UAV as target toy for SU-30 bomber






UAV-02 sử dụng 2 động cơ phản lực; sải cánh 2,8 m; chiều dài thân 2,5 m; tốc độ hành trình từ 250 – 350 km/giờ; bán kính hoạt động 100 km; độ cao bay tối đa 8.000 m; khối lượng 38 kg khi nạp đủ nhiên liệu; thời gian hoạt động tối đa 45 phút.

UAV-02, developed by Institute of Science and Technology, 2 engines, 2.8m wingspan, 2.5m length, speed 250-300 kmh, operation radius 100 km, max altitude 8,000 m, 38 kg weight full load, 45 operation minutes.


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## Viet

*Biên Hòa *airport
the home base of fighter squadron 935, responsible to guard the airspace in southern front.






Hàng dài Su30Mk2 chờ xuất kích tại đường băng – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Bài tập bay đôi dành cho các phi công đã bay nhuần nhuyễn, đòi hỏi các phi công phải bản lĩnh và thao tác bay chính xác tuyệt đối – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Đại tá Phan Xuân Tình, tham mưu trưởng trung đoàn 935, hướng dẫn lại một số thao tác quan trọng trong bài bay cho phi công 9X Bùi Văn Lập trước khi lên máy bay – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Phi công bắt buộc phải mặc quần kháng áp trước khi lên máy bay. Chiếc quần đặc biệt này có tác dụng khi phi công kéo quá tải, nó sẽ tự động thổi phồng, ép chặt vô mạch máu giúp phi công không bị thiếu máu não đột ngột, không bị choáng – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Kỹ sư gắn bom thật lên Su30Mk2 cho bài diễn tập với các lực lượng mặt đất. Máy bay Su30Mk2 mang được tối đa 8 tấn bom trên 12 giá treo – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Kỹ sư lắp đạn cho máy bay Su30Mk2 – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Các kỹ sư tham gia phục vụ kiểm tra, sửa chữa S30Mk2 là những người được tuyển chọn kỹ từ các học viện quân sự. Tiếng gầm rú đinh tai, nhói màng nhĩ của Su30Mk2 khiến bệnh lý về tai là bệnh thường gặp ở các kỹ sư này – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Trong các ca huấn luyện kỹ sư Su30Mk2 làm việc từ 3g sáng, công việc căng thẳng với đòi hỏi sự chính xác tuyệt đối – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng


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## Viet

Phi công kiểm tra động cơ, cần lái, nút điều khiển lần cuối trước khi bay – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Các chiến đấu cơ “hổ mang chúa” trở về căn cứ sau chuyến bay – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Su30Mk2 bung dù giảm tốc sau khi hạ cánh xuống đường băng – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Lính không quân xếp dù lại sau khi máy bay ngắt dù giảm tốc – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Một chuyến bay tập thành công – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Phi công trẻ Trần Thanh Luân rạng rỡ sau một chuyến bay tập – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng





Hai chiến sĩ bắt tay chúc mừng nhau sau chuyến bay an toàn – Ảnh: Thuận Thắng


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## cnleio

It seems Southern humid and salty air is the worst enemy to these Su30mkv ... corroding the aircraft, there need the enclosed hangar, not opened.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> It seems Southern humid and salty air is the worst enemy to these Su30mkv ... corroding the aircraft, there need the enclosed hangar, not opened.


well, indeed I would like to see our aircraft in aircon hardened shelters and hangars. but that will not happen too soon, unless a magic occurs more money will pour in or we have a defence budget as high as Japan. basically the airforce uses the same facilities that were abandoned by the US airforce after the war. bien hoa was one of US major airbases.


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## Aqsuperman

Barmaley said:


> Replaced with whom?


Probably for some European helicopter , of course excluded those that just receive overhaul in Crimea . 



cnleio said:


> t seems Southern humid and salty air is the worst enemy to these Su30mkv ... corroding the aircraft, there need the enclosed hangar, not opened.


Ya , well the paint will probably got hit hard but lets hope that maintaince will do well on preseving the machinenary

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## Viet

aerial defence against high flying targets and balistic missiles


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> well, indeed I would like to see our aircraft in aircon hardened shelters and hangars. but that will not happen too soon, unless a magic occurs more money will pour in or we have a defence budget as high as Japan. basically the airforce uses the same facilities that were abandoned by the US airforce after the war. bien hoa was one of US major airbases.


Building the enclosed hangar for aircraft, not cost too much especially built by ur Vietnamese workers ... cheaper than a new Su30mkv.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Building the enclosed hangar for aircraft, not cost too much especially built by ur Vietnamese workers ... cheaper than a new Su30mkv.
> View attachment 282291
> View attachment 282292


true. also, I like to see if the airforce constructs hardened hangars and shelters for the costly jets. anyway, we don´t need to hide. vietnam airforce is combat hardened, with or without nice hangars.


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## Viet

Heavy lift vessel Rolldock Sea, carrying the fifth Kilo submarine Đà Nẵng on the highsea. right now, the transport vessel has reached the Atlantic. expected of arrival at the homebase Cam-Ranh bay: end of January 2016...














...and upon arrival it will join the existing subs on patrol. nearly 4,000 tons submerged full load and 73.8m long, the submarine can operate at a maximum depth of 300 metres and at a range of 7,500 nautical miles for 45 days and nights with 52 crew members. Armed with most modern cruise missiles against land targets, and torpedo as well as supersonic antiship missiles against enemy subs and surface warships, the improved Kilo diesel-electric stealth submarine is one of the quietest in the world. hardly to detect, a deadly ‘black hole’ in the South China Sea.


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## Aqsuperman

well people say humour keep you positive :v


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## Viet

now, at least we know a bit more from the schedules: according to the shipyard * Gorky* (Zelenodolsk), both Gepard frigates #3 and #4, armed with kalibr cruise missiles will be launched in August and November 2016. the cruise missile made for VN warships is a short range version (300km) of russian long range kalibr (2,500km) due to international missile control regime.


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## Viet

I believe someone asked about the Military factory that produces Israeli Galil rifles for the army.
here is it: Z111 factory. fully automic production chain, built with a cost of more than $100m.





VN domestic made standard rifles. Galil rifles ACE 32 (bottom right), ACE 31 (bottom left)


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## Aqsuperman

Check out this motorbike :v


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## Viet

the future of Vietnam naval fleet is the future of a bluewater navy. still a distant dream.

but today, Get ready for a race around the world. a 40,000-nautical mile race! it is "Clipper 2015-16 Round the World Yacht Race". The race will visit 138 countries and territories around the world, including Danang which is a first for South East Asia.





















Wendy Tuck, a australian women is the captain.






David Graney, 64, wasn’t anticipating making the whole journey, but there’s no turning back.





Hannah Stenning






And their off. Opening scenes at the Sydney to Hobart on Boxing Day in Sydney.


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## Viet

and onboard, a vietnamese clipper, Nguyen Tran Minh An. The Da Nang yacht’s 26-member crew of different nationalities including Australia, the United Kingdom, Singapore, the United States, Sweden and Colombia.





to a highsea!


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## Viet

a Cuban military delegation visits Z199 factory. Interested of VN made weapons and toys, here night vision gears of various sizes?






Thai military men seen at a VN made weapons stand on a ASEAN army exibition. here granate launcher.





Producing gun powder at Z115 factory.





76,2mm Naval gun produced by Z173 factory.





some more military stuffs for domestic use. Z176 factory.










and the crown: Molniya corvette with Kh-35 antiship missile, built by Ba Son shipyard.

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## Aqsuperman

Let the firework commence :v


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## Aqsuperman

Jungle squadron :v


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## yugocrosrb95

Vietnam should consider 7.92x40 CETME Model 53 for semi-automatic sniper rifles.


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Vietnam should consider 7.92x40 CETME Model 53 for semi-automatic sniper rifles.


For sniper role we have plenty already  Bolt-action , Semi-automatic ,........something full-auto should be nice now though :v

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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> For sniper role we have plenty already  Bolt-action , Semi-automatic ,........something full-auto should be nice now though :v



You got the guns, but I am talking about a type of round.

It is an old experimental round that wasn't adopted due to NATO like Czech changed from 7.62x45 to inferior 7.62x39.


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## Aqsuperman

if it use ammunition in a rather unusual caliber then its unlikely we put it into service , the logistic will end up nasty :v 
Meh the morning sure is cold lately..............


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> a Cuban military delegation visits Z199 factory. Interested of VN made weapons and toys, here night vision gears of various sizes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thai military men seen at a VN made weapons stand on a ASEAN army exibition. here granate launcher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Producing gun powder at Z115 factory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 76,2mm Naval gun produced by Z173 factory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some more military stuffs for domestic use. Z176 factory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the crown: Molniya corvette with Kh-35 antiship missile, built by Ba Son shipyard.



Happy New Year guys !!!!!!!

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## Viet

Just some 3.5 hours to go...Happy New year!

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## Aqsuperman

close range air-defence weapon for Patrol ship


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## Aqsuperman

This and RPD are on service at the same time , future plans will try to partialy retired RPD and put more focus on PK


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## Blue Marlin

*Another two Su-30MK2s delivered to Vietnam*
Vietnam has taken delivery of another two Su-30MK2 fighters on Dec. 29. Aircraft 8589 and 8590 were flown to Vietnam aboard a An-124 transport plane.

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## Aqsuperman

Blue Marlin said:


> Another two Su-30MK2s delivered to Vietnam


Great news  Which remind me of this picture , first group of Vietnamese Su-27 pilots


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## Viet

indeed good news, though I hope we will see more and sooner of this advanced fighter jet to guard the airspace, deterring chinese incursions and aggessions. Fighter Jet Regiment #935 conducting night attack exercise with SU 30 bombers: technically more challenging and riskier than in daylight.













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Russia opposes militarization of sea disputes, continues arms support for Vietnam 

Tuoi Tre News
Updated : 12/29/2015 10:43 GMT + 7





_Russia has expressed its opposition to the militarization of the East Vietnam Sea situation and will keep providing military assistance for Vietnam in the future._

Russian Ambassador to Vietnam Konstantin Vasilievich Vnukov hosted a press conference in Hanoi on Monday to review the results of the two countries’ comprehensive cooperation in 2015.

Russia has every reason to consider Vietnam an essential link in the country’s effort to cement ties with the region, primarily the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

ASEAN is a ten-member organization that includes Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Brunei, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam.

Russia objects to the militarization of the issues in the East Vietnam Sea and promises to work with Vietnam and relevant countries to settle the disputes in a peaceful manner, Ambassador Vnukov said.

Moscow is interested in the development of peace and stability in the East Vietnam Sea because several Russian oil companies are operating in the maritime area, he explained.

The ambassador highlighted Russia’s military assistance for Vietnam in recent years, namely the high-end weaponry for the Southeast Asian country’s navy, including submarines and fighter jets, the likes of which have been deployed in Russia’s battles against terrorists in Syria.

The fifth Russian-made Kilo-class submarine is being transferred to Vietnam, the diplomat said, adding that *new arms sale contracts will be signed by the two parties in 2016.*

Vietnam clinched a deal in 2009 to buy six Kilo-class subs from Russia.

Vietnam and Russia have established great strategic trust, and Moscow will always support Hanoi’s stance and legitimate interests in accordance with international law as well as widely accepted standards, Professor Tran Viet Thai from the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs told _Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper.

“The fact that Vietnam gains Russia’s political trust and support is of great significance, as 90 percent of Vietnamese military equipment is supplied by Russia,” Prof. Thai said.

The problems regarding the illegal labor of Vietnamese in Russia was also mentioned during the conference.

Governments of the two nations have reached agreement on establishing an industrial park in Moscow that will house several garment factories providing legal jobs for the overseas Vietnamese there, according to Ambassador Vnukov.

“The solution is to ensure the legitimate rights and interests of the Vietnamese workforce. The free trade agreement between Vietnam and the Eurasian Economic Union will create more opportunities to address this matter,” the diplomat said.

Vietnam and China are entangled in a conflict over sovereignty over islands in the East Vietnam Sea, nearly all of which is claimed by Beijing. Taiwan, Brunei, the Philippines and Malaysia are the other claimants to the sea, with Manila already taking Beijing to an international tribunal.

The tension between Hanoi and Beijing intensified as China unlawfully placed an oil rig in Vietnamese waters in 2014, leading to several collisions between Vietnamese and Chinese ships.



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not sure if true. a HK news site says (or how I understand it) China tries to persuade Russia not to provide advanced weaponry to Vietnam with S-400 missile, Lada submarine and SU-35 fighter jet.


Trung Quốc tung tin: Nga không bán S-400, Su-35…cho Việt Nam - DVO - Báo Đất Việt


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## Viet

Asia & Pacific
*China’s assertiveness pushes Vietnam toward an old foe, the United States*

By Simon Denyer December 28, 2015

*CHINA’S BACK YARD |* This is part of an occasional series examining China’s efforts to win friends and clients in Asia and to assert a more dominant role across the continent.





_Men fish in Dong Da Lake this fall under pillars for a half-finished urban railway. The Chinese-built project is running three years behind schedule and 57 percent over budget. (Quinn Ryan Mattingly/For The Washington Post) _

HANOI — To win friends and open new markets for Chinese companies, Beijing is offering its Asian neighbors tens of billions of dollars in loans and investment. But in Vietnam, the effort is falling flat.

China’s aggressive assertion of its maritime territorial claims has alienated many here, and President Xi Jinping’s grand vision of a new Silk Road with China at its center is greeted with scorn and suspicion rather than excitement.

The relationship has turned so bad that Vietnam’s Communist Party is tilting more and more toward an old enemy, the United States. And when Xi paid a state visit to Vietnam last month, you could almost feel the chill.

Xi was feted with a 21-gun salute and granted a rare invitation to address the country’s National Assembly. His 20-minute speech to his “comrades” in Vietnam was full of poetic references to the two nations’ shared destinies, to how brothers can even “break gold” if their hearts are united.

But Xi’s exhortations were met with stony silence and only a smattering of applause at the end. Boredom, indifference and even hostility were written on the faces of his audience.

“The atmosphere was very tense,” said one Vietnamese official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

China wants to help its fellow Asian countries build the infrastructure their economies desperately need, under the banner of re-creating ancient Silk Road trade routes and partly channeled through a new Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. Vietnam needs the money but fears a hidden agenda.

“We are quite suspicious because we don’t know the real objective,” said Tran Truong Thuy, an expert at the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam, a Foreign Ministry think tank. “Behind its Maritime Silk Road, China can advance its sovereignty propaganda.”

_[Obama pledges to visit Vietnam during meeting with Communist Party chief]_

In the run-up to Xi’s visit, activists staged several small but rare protests against him, watched but not always disbanded by local police. Eight Vietnamese nongovernmental organizations and 1,700 activists signed an online petition against his trip, while a Facebook campaign gathered thousands more to the cause.

In a subtle snub, Xi’s visit was timed to coincide with a visit by the Japanese defense minister, with Hanoi inviting a Japanese warship to dock at Vietnam’s strategic Cam Ranh Bay.

The contrast between Xi’s visit and President Bill Clinton’s 2000 trip to Vietnam was stark: Then, tens of thousands of young people waited late into the night to welcome the first U.S. leader to visit since the Vietnam War ended.

For Xi, there were no cheering crowds.

*Railway woes*

On the streets of Hanoi, a series of concrete pillars and a half-built elevated railway hint at one of the reasons China faces so much public distrust here.

A Chinese-built urban rail project is running three years behind schedule and 57 percent over budget. Several accidents, including scaffolding collapses and falling objects, have killed or injured passersby, while Vietnam’s transport minister has complained that the terms of the Chinese loan forced him to buy Chinese trains.

“Chinese contractors are very bad,” Minister Dinh La Thang said, according to local media outlets. “I wanted to replace them many times, but I could not because of the loan agreement’s obligations.”

China has a reputation for transferring outdated technology to Vietnam, producing low-quality workmanship, ignoring environmental standards and importing its own workers. Chinese companies often win contracts by bidding at unrealistically low rates, experts said, only to end up charging more.

“How can they bid with such low prices?” asked Tran Viet Thai, another expert at the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam. “It is because of corruption and bribes. China can help with some infrastructure projects, but where does the benefit go? It goes into the hands of some corrupt officials.”

Partly as a result, in 2013 Vietnam tightened the rules governing the awarding of public contracts, stipulating, for example, that foreign workers be kept to a minimum.

It has joined the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank but has kept its distance from the Silk Road plan.

But the most dramatic recent break in the relationship between Beijing and Hanoi came in May 2014, when China towed a $1 billion oil rig close to the Paracel Islands, in South China Sea waters that Vietnam considers part of its exclusive economic zone.






_Luu Hoai Thu, a receptionist for the Cat Linh-Ha Dong railway project’s management board, walks by a model rail car that was on display this fall for public introduction and feedback. (Quinn Ryan Mattingly/For The Washington Post) _

_
[China withdraws oil rig from disputed waters but warns it could return]_

Coming at a time when relations between the two countries were on an upswing, “the oil rig incident was a shock to Vietnam,” the Vietnamese official said. “Mutual trust has not really recovered.”

Deadly riots broke out in Vietnam in which Chinese and Taiwanese factories were attacked. There was a call for an emergency meeting of the Communist Party’s Central Committee to discuss forming an alliance with the United States — a radical strategic change for a country whose disdain for military partnerships is a central foreign policy tenet, said Carl Thayer, a Vietnam expert at the University of New South Wales. President Obama’s top adviser for Asia, Evan Medeiros, was even invited to Vietnam that July to discuss deepening ties.
*
Rethinking relationships*

In the end, China withdrew the oil rig in July 2014, a month ahead of schedule, and the emergency meeting of the Central Committee was never held. Nevertheless, an improving relationship with the United States received further impetus.

“China’s actions sparked a big internal debate in Vietnam about its strategic orientation,” said Medeiros, now a managing director with the Eurasia Group, an international business consultancy.

In the past 12 months, eight of Vietnam’s 16 Politburo members have visited Washington, while half a dozen Cabinet-level U.S. officials have traveled the other way.

Capping an unprecedented level of engagement, Obama received Vietnamese Communist Party leader Nguyen Phu Trong in the Oval Office in July and is expected to visit Vietnam next year.

In October 2014, the United States partially relaxed an arms embargo on Vietnam and is helping Hanoi improve its coast guard capabilities to counter China’s growing presence in the South China Sea.

But the clearest indication of rapprochement between Hanoi and Washington has been Vietnam’s inclusion in the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a U.S.-led 12-nation regional trade deal that excludes China. That deal, Vietnam hopes, will help reduce its economic dependence on China, with which it runs a large and growing trade deficit.


China’s assertiveness pushes Vietnam toward an old foe, the United States - The Washington Post







Simon Denyer is The Post’s bureau chief in China. He served previously as bureau chief in India and as a Reuters bureau chief in Washington, India and Pakistan.


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## Viet

*Vietnam, South Korea open respective desks for police liaisons: report*
Thanh Nien News
Friday, December 18, 2015 08:25








Vietnam and South Korea on Thursday launched new police units tasked with protecting citizens of the other country in either country.

Vietnam's Ministy of Public Security installed a Korean Desk tasked with protecting South Koreans in Vietnam.
The National Police Agency also opened a Vietnam Desk at its building in Seoul's Seodaemun district, charged with affairs involving Vietnamese nationals, according to a report on KBS World Radio.

Two officers who speak Vietnamese will be placed at the Vietnam Desk in Seoul while four Vietnamese officers with Korean language capabilities will be stationed at the Korean Desk in Hanoi, the report said.

The two desks will share investigation details on incidents in either country involving the other's citizens, according to KBS.

The two units will also serve to arrest and repatriate fugitives and exchange intelligence on criminals.
Vietnam's tourism authorities recorded about 998,000 arrivals of South Korean nationals in Vietnam in the first 11 months of this year.


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*China opens defense hotline with Vietnam, ROK*
by Wang Qingyun (chinadaily.com.cn) Updated: 2015-12-31 21:41





_Vietnam Defence Minister General Phung Quang Thanh (baochinhphu.vn)_


The Ministry of National Defense has officially opened direct hotlines respectively with defense ministries of Vietnam and the Republic of Korea, a ministry spokesman disclosed on Thursday.

State Councilor and Minister of National Defense Chang Wanquan held the first direct hotline talks with his Vietnamese and ROK counterparts.

China is willing to work with Vietnam to "turn high-level consensus into concrete outcomes and properly tackle differences", Chang said in his phone conversation with Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh.

The China-Vietnamese relations have shown "gratifying momentum of continuous improvement", as President Xi Jinping and General Secretary the Communist Party of Vietnam Nguyễn Phú Trọng exchanged successful visits in 2015,Chang said.

Phung told Chang that Vietnam is willing to work with China to gain practical development of relations between the two militaries.

In his phone conversation with ROK Defense Minister Han Min-goo, Chang said China will strengthen exchanges and cooperation between Chinese and ROK militaries to "jointly maintain regional peace, stability and prosperity".


China opens defense hotline with Vietnam, ROK - World - Chinadaily.com.cn


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## Viet

Falmouth girl enjoys being part of victorious crew in the prestigious Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race (From Falmouth Packet)

nice. actually not a military news, but nevertheless I want to post here, continuing from the event I mentioned earlier. Da Nang-Vietnam team, the Vietnamese-sponsored Clipper Round the World Yacht Race won *the first place *in the race from Sydney to Hobart.
























Wendy Tuck, the captain.


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## Aqsuperman

Ready to put in use at moment notice


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## Viet

a legacy of the Vietnam war: the biggest ever naval shell found. Officers from the UK-based Mines Advisory Group (MAG) on Wednesday successfully defused a giant Vietnam War-era shell unearthed from a garden in the central province of Quang Tri. the area had seen one of most tense fights. Unexploded ordnances (UXOs) remain a dangerous legacy, killing thousands of vietnamese, even when the war ends 40 years ago.















the shell was most probably fired by the USS New Jersey, the only US battleship deployed during the Vietnam war. a battlehip armed with 16-inch (406 mm) guns, commissioned in WW II.


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## Viet

a Su-30 bomber armed by unguided rockets against ground targets






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the first group of soldiers finished the training course in operating SPYDER, a mobile advanced surface-to-air missile system, manufactured by Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd. the system is designed to destroy enemy aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles and guided precision bombs at low attitude.

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## Aqsuperman

Eat on the way :v


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## Viet

technicians installing bombs on Su30 bombers for a live ammunition exercise. KAB-500KR, electro-optical TV-guided "fire and forget" bomb.





concentration before take off





bombs will be released on targets from the height of 4,200 meters.

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## Aqsuperman

a variant of RAM 2000


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## Viet

*New base: Satellite monitoring station in Vietnam to give India room in South China Sea region
*
By Dipanjan Roy Chaudhury, ET Bureau | 4 Jan, 2016, 01.05AM IST












Read more at:
New base: Satellite monitoring station in Vietnam to give India room in South China Sea region - The Economic Times

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## Viet

CONTENT PREVIEW
Industry
*Vietnam's Viettel set to receive government investment to support expansion*

*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly 
04 January 2016

Vietnam's state-run Military Telecommunication General Corporation (Viettel) is set to triple its charter capital, raising funds for further expansion.

The Vietnam government said on 4 January that Viettel's charter capital in the period 2015-20 will increase from VND100 trillion (USD4.4 billion) to VND300 trillion.

Charter capital represents the value of issued shares, meaning the government would be expected to make further investments in the company to support expansion activities.

These activities will be in line with government's stated intention to not only expand Viettel's presence in commercial telecommunications but also military industrial programmes by the end of the decade.

In 2015 Hanoi called on Viettel to "build itself into a strong group in the defence industry [sector]".

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## Aqsuperman

a SACLOS ATGM that augument the more numerous AT3 Sagger


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## Carlosa

*South China Sea dispute: Vietnamese subs deployed as deterrent to China*
*January 7, 2016  
Lindsay Murdoch
*
South China Sea dispute: Vietnamese subs deployed as deterrent to China





An older Russian-built, Kilo-class diesel submarine._ Photo: Handout_
*
Bangkok:* The first of Vietnam's new advanced Kilo-class submarines have begun patrolling disputed waters of the South China Sea, as deterrents to China's 10 times-bigger navy, Vietnamese officials and diplomatic sources say.

Vietnam is also expanding use of its strategically important Cam Ranh Bay deep-water harbour, where six of the submarines will be based by 2017.





A submarine can be seen in the middle pier at Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam._ Photo: Google Maps_

The arrival of the submarines from Russia is a key part of Vietnam's biggest arms build-up since the height of the Vietnam War, which could significantly change the balance of power in the flashpoint South China Sea, analysts say.

As concern has increased about China's aggressive claims to almost all of the disputed water, Vietnam has been spending billions of dollars developing a submarine fleet, shore-based artillery and missile systems, multirole jet fighters and fast-attack ships, most of which have being bought from Russia and India.

Vietnam was also seeking more Russian jet-fighter bombers and was in talks with European and US arms manufacturers to buy fighter and maritime patrol planes and unarmed surveillance drones, Reuters said, quoting unnamed sources.





Cam Ranh Bay has been described as Vietnam's "ace up its sleeve" against China's vastly larger and better-equipped navy, air force and army._ Photo: Google Maps_

The country has also recently upgraded and expanded air defences, including obtaining early-warning surveillance radar from Israel and advanced S-300 surface-to-air missile batteries from Russia.

Vietnam's military spending had outstripped its south-east Asian neighbours over the past decade, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute said.

Carlyle Thayer, a professor from Australia's Defence Force Academy in Canberra, said when all six of Vietnam's submarines were operational they would provide a potent strike capability with Vietnam's anti-ship and land attack cruise missiles, adding greatly to the country's ability to confront an enemy in its waters.

"These weapons systems should enable Vietnam to make it extremely costly for China to conduct maritime operations within a 200 to 300-nautical-mile band of water along Vietnam's coast, from the Vietnam-China border in the north-east to around Da Nang in central Vietnam, if not further south," Professor Thayer said in a Thayer Consultancy background briefing paper.

Professor Thayer, an expert on Vietnam's military and the South China Sea dispute, said Vietnam's ability to deploy stealthily would be put at risk if China permanently stationed anti-submarine warfare aircraft on Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands, where China has built a 3000-metre airstrip and some basic infrastructure.

China landed a civilian plane on the strip on January 2, sparking a furious response from Vietnam, which labelled it a "serious infringement of the sovereignty of Vietnam".

Analysts said it was difficult to gauge Vietnam's actual capabilities and how well they were integrating complex new weapons systems.

But Professor Thayer said when all of Vietnam's current and future arms acquisitions were taken into account, "it is evident that Vietnam has taken major steps to develop a robust capacity to resist maritime intervention by a hostile power".

The diesel-electric submarines, also known as Varshavyanka-class, are designed for anti-submarine warfare, anti-shipping and anti-surface ship warfare, patrol and reconnaissance, and for the defence of naval bases and coastlines.

They are considered one of the quietest submarines, can operate in the South China's Sea's shallow water and have been upgraded constantly since the 1980s.

Analysts say they are more technologically advanced than other Russian-made submarines in China's fleet.

Analysts said Cam Ranh Bay was Vietnam's "ace up its sleeve" against China's vastly larger and better-equipped navy, air force and army, against which it fought a bloody war in 1979.

Vietnam has signalled it will invite non-Chinese navies such as Russia, the United States and Japan to send ships and submarines to the harbour for maintenance and logistics support.

The harbour, which was the US's centre of naval operations during the Vietnam War, provides ships easy access to the disputed water and the Indian Ocean through the Strait of Malacca.

The International Crisis Group has warned that the South China Sea risks becoming a theatre of big-power competition in 2016, as the US challenges China's large-scale land reclamation and construction on disputed reefs, which has set Beijing on a collision course with several south-east Asian nations.

A tribunal in The Hague is expected to announce its verdict in a landmark case filed by the Philippines accusing China of violating international law in the South China Sea, further raising tensions.

Malaysia, Brunei, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines and China have overlapping claims to the territory.

More than $US5 trillion ($7 trillion) of trade passes every year through the South China Sea, which is also believed to hold huge deposits of oil and gas.

*- with Reuters*

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## Aqsuperman

Main firepower of Patrol Boat , certain weapon also come with a under-barrel mortar or net launcher of some kind


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## Viet

*Vietnamese military hands over 20 hectares of airport land *

Tuoi Tre news
12/29/2015






The Vietnamese military has announced that it will give away more than 20 hectares of land at an international airport in Ho Chi Minh City to support the country’s economic development.

The Ministry of National Defense will transfer over 20 hectares of land at Tan Son Nhat International Airport to the Ministry of Transport and other competent agencies, General Phung Quang Thanh said at a government meeting on Monday, adding that several similar transfers could be carried out to help spur Vietnam’s economic growth.

The land handover was decided as the operation and maintenance of military aircraft at the airport have hindered civil aviation activities, General Thanh, who is minister of defense, explained.

The Ministry of Transport initially asked for nine hectares and but the area was then increased to more than 20 hectares following several field trips by the defense ministry. Another piece of land 20 hectares in area is expected to be handed over to the Ministry of Transport in the future, General Thanh said.

Regarding the Cam Ranh military port in the south-central province of Khanh Hoa, the facility will be modeled on an ‘open’ port, which not only serves as a military harbor but also provides entry for large-scale cruise ships and foreign vessels, the general said at the meeting.

Expected to be inaugurated in late *February 2016*, Cam Ranh will be similar to Singapore’s Changi, which facilitates the multilateralization, diversification and interlinked interests of the country.

The general added that businesses managed by the Vietnamese military have contributed US$2 billion in tax in 2015.

“Besides spending, the military also contributes to the national coffers,” he concluded.

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## yugocrosrb95

Using SU-30 as a bomber is expensive...


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Using SU-30 as a bomber is expensive...


yes, but there is no alternative. Su30 is the largest airplane the airforce has, using for bombing mission I believe. Operating fighter aircraft is not cheap in general.


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Using SU-30 as a bomber is expensive...


Only when nothing available around , usually the bombing will be handle by Su22M5 variant , but when dealing with tough targer that require high precison and good mobility plus jamming pod to defend against SAM system , Su 30 with anti ship or anti radiation will be called into action first 
Looking good there :v


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Only when nothing available around , usually the bombing will be handle by Su22M5 variant , but when dealing with tough targer that require high precison and good mobility plus jamming pod to defend against SAM system , Su 30 with anti ship or anti radiation will be called into action first
> Looking good there :v



Su-22's have already being upgraded to Su22M5 variant? I thought they were all version M3 and M4.


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## Carlosa

*The China Factor in Russia-Vietnam Security Ties*

*The China Factor in Russia-Vietnam Security Ties | Foreign Policy Journal
*
Toward the end of 2015, the Russian Federation made several breakthroughs in its relations with Vietnam, including agreements for mutual cooperation between Moscow and Hanoi on issues such as anti-corruption, defense, and trade.




Russian President Vladimir Putin on a visit to Vietnam in 2006 (Photo: The Kremlin)

While the court of global opinion has largely turned against Russia due to its military actions abroad, in Vietnam, Russia enjoys broad support from the population at large. According to a poll from the Pew Research Center, 75 percent of Vietnamese have a favorable opinion of Russia. At the official level, Vietnam’s foreign minister, Phạm Bình Minh, has recently voiced support for a greater Russian role in global affairs.

According to Maria Zelenkova, a research fellow at the Russian Institute of Strategic Studies, Vietnam’s foreign policy is based upon a desire to develop relations with China, Russia, and the United States in the form of a multi-vector foreign policy. With tensions mounting in the South China Sea, it stands to reason that Hanoi would pursue closer ties to a power besides China and the United States. The pursuit of a multi-vector type of foreign policy is not dissimilar to those of other countries such as Kazakhstan and Mongolia, which must contend with the reality of sharing borders simultaneously with China and Russia.

As tensions rise between China and Vietnam in the South China Sea, Vietnam has concrete reasons to approach Russia seeking a deeper level of partnership. Yet Moscow’s willingness to develop a closer relationship with Hanoi must somehow invariably also serve Russia’s own self interest. This is especially true if Russia risks becoming enmeshed or otherwise involved against its better interests in the South China Sea dispute. Thus the question arises: what benefit is there for Russia in pursuing closer security relations with Vietnam?

In addition to strategic deterrence, one of the most crucial factors and main driving forces in current Russian security policy is the ability to secure itself on its geographic flanks against a plethora of potential adversaries and threats. This is one of the main reasons why Russia has sought to keep countries on its periphery in its geopolitical orbit, in order to create a security belt comprised of friendly states.

Given this facet of Russian security policy, it may seem somewhat illogical that Russia would expend energy to develop security ties with Vietnam. This is particularly given the vast distance between Russia and Vietnam and the fact that no direct threat to Russian security emanates from Southeast Asia. Furthermore, Russia already has several other considerations closer to its peripheral areas, such as the situation in Ukraine and its engagement in Syria (which has larger reverberations for Russia’s security vis-à-vis NATO).

The most important factor driving Russia’s new rapprochement with Vietnam is not peripheral security, but rather to create a hedge against the rise of China. For all of the talk of the growing China-Russia partnership, relations between Beijing and Moscow remain cautious. As Elizabeth Wishnick argues, Russia’s declared ambitions to become a major power in the Asia-Pacific (specifically in East Asia) depend not on its burgeoning partnership with China, but it’s ability to balance China in East Asia.

Indeed, it is only natural that Russia would cooperate with China insofar as doing so would serve Russia’s own national interests. When it becomes contrary to Russian interests to have a partnership with China, however Russia will obviously seek ways to balance Chinese power. As a case in point, Russian energy companies have expanded their cooperation with other countries in the South China Sea region, including Vietnam. In response to this, China has called, without directly stating it, for Russia to refrain from getting involved in the ongoing regional dispute.

In other words, the main driver of Russia’s security policy toward Vietnam isn’t Russia’s own immediate peripheral security but the ability to augment and project its influence in the Asia-Pacific in light of China’s rising star. As part of Russia’s so-called “pivot to the East”, Russian policymakers see a string Russian position, whether diplomatically, economically or militarily, as being essential for Russia’s goal of returning as a great global power.

Indeed, Russia fears becoming a second-rate Asian power subordinate to China, and will heartily welcome alternate partners who can assist Moscow in becoming more active in Asia-Pacific affairs while avoiding subordination to Beijing. Some consider Japan to be a viable partner for Russia as a counterweight to China, yet the Russo-Japanese relationship remains problematic, not least because of the festering dispute over the Kuril Islands. Therefore, Vietnam presents itself to Russia a country of interest in its endeavor to balance China.

Issues of geography (and thus, the attendant issues of logistics and strategic presence) notwithstanding, Russia and Vietnam haveinitiated cooperation in the military sphere. This cooperation has, thus far, been limited to arms sales and technology transfer. Nevertheless, such cooperation will have a role to play in enabling Vietnam to defend itself against growing Chinese power. Vietnam has also recently re-opened the former Soviet base at Cam Ranh to the Russian navy and air force.

Furthermore, both countries have discussed the possibility of deeper collaboration in terms of confidence building measures. Russia has announced that it will participate in a joint naval exercise in the South China Sea in 2016. Russian media have speculated that the drill will take place in May.

For Russia, Vietnam represents an important node in East Asia whereby Russia can actively attempt to balance against Chinese power and thus strengthen its geopolitical and strategic position in East Asia. As Vietnam seeks to diversity its international partnerships, it sees an opening with Russia. In turn, Russia also sees in Vietnam a chance to expand its own Asian influence, and is not wasting the opportunity.

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## Viet

man I hope we needn´t wait too long to see the first destroyers in our Navy.

Thursday, January 07, 2016. Destroyer Bystry, a member of Russia Pacific Fleet, with 315 officers and sailors on board and two accompanied ships paying a visit to Danang. the russians as VN most important strategic partner have free ride, I believe, they can visit and do port call at any time, using VN sea facilities as patrol station, taking fuel, foods, water and other things as well as resting place.

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## Viet

exotic: defence tie to Mexico

The Mexican Defence Ministry wants to launch cooperation channels in new fields with Vietnam, including facilitating visits to share information and experience. Secretariat Salvador Cienfuegos Zepeda (R) and Vietnam Ambassador to Mexico Le Linh Lan.






securing the western flank: strategically important not to let Cambodia and Laos falling into chinese hands.

_Vietnam and Cambodia almost conclude land border demarcation between the two countries. Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen, right, and Vietnamese PM, Nguyen Tan Dung, inaugurate a new border demarcation post in Ratanakkiri province on Saturday. so a decade old conflict comes to a peaceful end._







_The defence ministries of Vietnam and Laos sign an agreement on their cooperation in 2016._


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## Viet

not a good sign: since beginning of 2016, as many as 46 flights by chinese airlines ignore giving flight information to Vietnam FIR Ho Chi Minh (green color) in violation of international agreement set by ICAO. the chinese might try to take a piece of VN FIR, the airspace over their occupied islands in the Spratlys.

Hàng chục chuyến bay Trung Quốc xâm phạm vùng kiểm soát của Việt Nam - VnExpress

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> not a good sign: since beginning of 2016, as many as 46 flights by chinese airlines ignore giving flight information to Vietnam FIR Ho Chi Minh (green color) in violation of international agreement set by ICAO. the chinese might try to take a piece of VN FIR, the airspace over their occupied islands in the Spratlys.
> 
> Hàng chục chuyến bay Trung Quốc xâm phạm vùng kiểm soát của Việt Nam - VnExpress



I have a different map for the Ho Chi Minh Flight Information Region.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> man I hope we needn´t wait too long to see the first destroyers in our Navy.



Don't hold your breath.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Great video of Sukhoi fighter jets.


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## Aqsuperman

So.........i guess something new is coming ? :v

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## Viet

* Russia-Vietnam: Cooperation in the Arctic?*
The two countries look likely to strengthen ties in the energy sector.

By Nadezhda Filimonova
December 11, 2015








In early April this year, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev visited Vietnam. The trip has been viewed as a continuation of Russia’s policy of deepening ties with Asian countries amid worsening relations with the U.S. and Europe over the Ukrainian crisis. The outcomes of the visit underscore the interest that Russia and Vietnam have in setting up cooperation in a number of areas. In particular, the two countries discussed the possible signing of a free trade agreement between Vietnam and the Eurasian Economic Union by the end of 2015.

Gazprom subsidiary Gazprom Neft and Vietnam’s state-controlled oil and gas company Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) meanwhile signed a memorandum to extend cooperation in oil and gas production and exploitation on the Russian continental shelf in the Pechora Sea, and agreed on general provisions for Gazprom Neft’s acquisition of a share of the Dung Quat refinery.

Russia’s interest in promoting relations in the energy sector is influenced by the current global political and economic situation. Western sanctions, combined with European attempts to become less dependent on Russian gas, have made a turn to Asia more desirable for Moscow.

Ahead of the visit, Medvedev outlined several possibilities for energy cooperation between the two states. The prime minister said that, “Moscow has prepared a special proposal for companies from Vietnam to participate in hydrocarbon projects in Russia. Vietnam and Russia should consider new, promising forms of cooperation, such as refining rather than extraction alone and the use of various incentives to encourage joint work on the continental shelf of both countries.”

Similar statements were expressed in relation to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to India in 2014. Russian Deputy Minister of Energy Yuri Senutin proclaimed that “for the first time ever Russia has suggested to the Indian companies participating in projects in development and production of hydrocarbons in Russia, including in the Arctic and in East Siberia.” Such initiatives testify that an idea to involve Asian companies in energy projects has received support not only from the Russian energy companies (Rosneft, Gazprom and Zarubezhneft) but also among Russian political elite.

Additionally, Russian energy companies view the strengthening of cooperation with Vietnamese companies as a way to diversify export markets, find new investors in their energy projects, and expand their presence in energy projects in Vietnam. For its part, the Vietnamese energy company PetroVietnam is keen to stake out a share in Russian oil and gas projects, while assessing the economic costs and benefits, and possible risks.

One of the first opportunities for Vietnam to get access to the Russian shelf dates back to 2012, when the Russian state-controlled oil company Zarubezhneft and PetroVietnam expressed an interest in creating a joint venture for oil and gas exploration in the Barents Sea. In 2011. the acquisition by Zarubezhneft of 100 percent minus one share of Arktikmorneftegazrazvedka, which boasts vast offshore production experience, has created the conditions for the company to meet the legal criteria for offshore production.

In line with the 2008 amendments to the federal law that authorizes a legal entity to operate on a shelf, a company must have five years’ experience in developing deposits on the Russian continental shelf; be established in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation; and have more than 50 percent of its charter capital owned by the government. Since then, Zarubezhneft has tried to apply for licenses on Arctic offshore areas; however, despite debate within the Russian government and strong support from the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment the decision to liberalize access to offshore production has yet to be made. One reason is the strong opposition voiced by Rosneft and Gazprom. Opening up access to offshore oil and gas fields would end their existing monopoly over offshore production in the Arctic region.

Like Gazprom and Zarubezhneft, Rosneft has also expressed an interest in developing energy projects together with PetroVietnam. In 2014, the two companies reached an agreement to set up a joint venture to develop two oil field blocks in the Pechora Sea. Although the statements have been made by Rosneft head Igor Sechin concerning the company’s plans to expand cooperation with PetroVietnam, the companies are still negotiating conditions for joint offshore activities.

Given the current geopolitical situation, as well as Russia’s own economic challenges, it is hard to see in the short term at least changes in Russian regulations related to the liberalization of access to offshore production or major increases in offshore activity in the Russian Arctic zone. Rosneft and Gazprom have already requested permission to postpone their offshore projects in the Arctic.

In particular, last month Gazprom Neft announced that it would be postponing until 2031 the Dolginskoye offshore project, which the company plans to develop in partnership with *PetroVietnam*.

Given the circumstances joint development of onshore projects in the Arctic appears more likely, especially since PetroVietnam is already engaged in oil production in Russia. In 2012, the company established a joint venture in partnership with Zarubezhneft called Rusvietpetro to develop a cluster of oilfields in the Central Khoreyversky uplift in the Nenets Autonomous Area. And in June 2015, the heads of Gazprom and PetroVietnam signed an agreement on major terms and conditions for projects to develop the Nagumanovskoye (Orenburg region) and Severo-Purovskoye (Yamal-Nenets Autonomous Area) fields.

Apart from Arctic oil and gas resources, as a major fishing nation Vietnam could also be interested in Arctic fisheries. Since 2015, the five Arctic coastal states (Russia, Canada, U.S., Norway, Denmark) have been holding negotiations on commercial fishing in the central part of the Arctic Ocean beyond the 200 nautical miles of the exclusive economic zones. One of the preliminary results of negotiations was the signing in July 2015 of a declaration on the prevention of unregulated High Seas fishing in the Central Arctic Ocean that put certain limitations on fishing in the area. However, with the opening opportunities for fishing in the central part of the Arctic Ocean interest from non-Arctic states, including Vietnam, is likely, and these states could well become involved in future governance of Arctic fishing. Official representatives from China, Japan, South Korea, Iceland and the EU took part in a meeting in Washington D.C. at the start of this month to discuss policy approaches.

In general, large-scale cooperation between Vietnam and Russia in the development of Arctic energy projects is unlikely in the short term. *Over the long term*, however, as sanctions are eased it is possible to foresee a partnership between Russian, Vietnamese, European and American energy companies for joint exploration and _exploitation_ of _hydrocarbon_ resources in the Russian Arctic zone.

_Nadezhda Filimonova is head of the World Meteorological Organization Relations Department at the Russian State Hydrometeorological University._

Russia-Vietnam: Cooperation in the Arctic? | The Diplomat


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## pr1v4t33r

Aqsuperman said:


> So... i guess something new is coming ? :v


_Indonesian defense equipment and arms exports | Page 5_

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## Viet

we are falling behind of other opponents in the SC Sea. our longest runway is just 550m, not long enough for fighter jet landing and take off. right now, good enough for van tai (transport aircraft) and trinh sat (patrol aircraft).







max range of aircraft when taking off from an island


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## Mokaman

pr1v4t33r said:


> _Indonesian defense equipment and arms exports | Page 5_


Well it's a EADS CASA C212 produce under licence by Indonesian aerospace. Viet Nam coast guard already operate a few C212 already, Viet Nam just order a new batch?



Viet said:


> we are falling behind of other opponents in the SC Sea. our longest runway is just 550m, not long enough for fighter jet landing and take off. right now, good enough for van tai (transport aircraft) and trinh sat (patrol aircraft).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> max range of aircraft when taking off from an island


Viet Nam don't really need long runway for jet fighters.Of all the countries, Viet Nam have the closest airbases for Spratly Islands. And I think it just a waste time and money to build runway on those tiny islands, because it will be the easiest and first targets in a start of conflict


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> Viet Nam have the closest airbases for Spratly Islands. And I think it just a waste time and money to build runway on those tiny islands, because it will be the easiest and first targets in a start of conflict


if war breaks out, any runway is a target, regardless be located either on mainland or island. consider, our fighter jets Su27/30 need about 15 min to reach Spratlys. and that´s sometimes in crisis it is too long, too late. unless we have long runways and hangars on islands for our jets.






the army shall put heavy anti aircraft defence on islands once runways are constructed.


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## Indos

Mokaman said:


> Well it's a EADS CASA C212 produce under licence by Indonesian aerospace. Viet Nam coast guard already operate a few C212 already, Viet Nam just order a new batch?



There is 2012 news saying that PT Dirgantara market C 212 to Philipine, Thailand, and Vietnam. So it seems the marketing effort is really success. Your military officers have also visited PT Dirgantara several years ago.


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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> if war breaks out, any runway is a target, regardless be located either on mainland or island. consider, our fighter jets Su27/30 need about 15 min to reach Spratlys. and that´s sometimes in crisis it is too long, too late. unless we have long runways and hangars on islands for our jets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the army shall put heavy anti aircraft defence on islands once runways are constructed.


The airbases on the Vietnam mainland are much harder to destroy, PLA need to go through multiple layers of anti-aircraft defenses before reaching the target. And mainland airbases are much larger, so you need a lot of more bombs and missiles to disable them. Also you have more heavy equipments, resources and manpower to quickly repair the runway. And I don't think the Chinese will station any jetfighters on those tiny islands, it will be suicide. I just think they build those runways to show that they own the place and will stay permanently. PLA generals sometime think and doing stuffs more for showing/saving face than rational/logical

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## Aqsuperman

Primary AAM of VPAF


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## Viet

Indos said:


> There is 2012 news saying that PT Dirgantara market C 212 to Philipine, Thailand, and Vietnam. So it seems the marketing effort is really success. Your military officers have also visited PT Dirgantara several years ago.


we used to order the aircraft in spain. do you know how many aircraft we have ordered in your country and what capacity the bird has?


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> The airbases on the Vietnam mainland are much harder to destroy, PLA need to go through multiple layers of anti-aircraft defenses before reaching the target. And mainland airbases are much larger, so you need a lot of more bombs and missiles to disable them. Also you have more heavy equipments, resources and manpower to quickly repair the runway. And I don't think the Chinese will station any jetfighters on those tiny islands, it will be suicide. I just think they build those runways to show that they own the place and will stay permanently. PLA generals sometime think and doing stuffs more for showing/saving face than rational/logical


I don´t think the chinese spend billions of dollar creating artificial islands, runways and other civil and military facilities just for fun. no. their aim is obviously: controlling the SC Sea by their military outposts. they will station aircraft and missiles on the islands. 100 per cent. I want to be an optimist, but I think we must calculate with the worst case scenario.

right now we have 48 outposts in the Spratlys, but no runway long enough to host our fighter jets. again, the jets need 15 min to get there if a crisis ever occurs. why isn´t it possible for us to create a comprehensive defence network with our 48 outposts, to protect the islands and jets? the runway can be used by the jets in case of an emergency landing. technical reason for example. also, our fighter jets can extend the operation radius if they start from spratlys. we can react quicker if the jets are there. two are enough as quick reaction force.


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## Indos

Viet said:


> we used to order the aircraft in spain. do you know how many aircraft we have ordered in your country and what capacity the bird has?



Yup, you ordered the last N 212 400 from Airbus Military (EADS). The production facility has been shut down there as they focuses on large aircraft now. And as we have cooperation with Airbus Military and also Airbus, so N 212 production is still exist but only in Indonesia so any one must order from us if they are interested on the plane. 

I dont know how many you have ordered, but there is one that has been in assembling line now. You can search via google to understand the plane further though.

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## pr1v4t33r

Indos said:


> I dont know how many you have ordered, but there is one that has been in assembling line now. You can search via google to understand the plane further though.



more than one unit. _Noviarli Wahyudi | Facebook_

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## Aqsuperman

So more for the Coast Guard , I kind of expecting more C-295 , still great new though

Another of Coast Guard Air Asset


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## Viet

Indos said:


> Yup, you ordered the last N 212 400 from Airbus Military (EADS). The production facility has been shut down there as they focuses on large aircraft now. And as we have cooperation with Airbus Military and also Airbus, so N 212 production is still exist but only in Indonesia so any one must order from us if they are interested on the plane.
> 
> I dont know how many you have ordered, but there is one that has been in assembling line now. You can search via google to understand the plane further though.


ok, didn´t know that Spain stops producing the aircraft. the airforce seems sastified by the aircraft, that makes sense ordering them more at Indonesia if demand is there. maybe the VPN may have placed one or two aircraft to check out the quality.

do you know if you have such C-295 variant?


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## Viet

*high-altitude long-endurance (HALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV)*

I have just found a detailed report (with video of the test flights) on VN first high attitude long range unarmed drone HS-6L: 22 m wingspan, endurance of 35 hours, range of 4,000 km, twin-boom, powered by a Rotax 914 engine, starting patrolling the SC Sea in second quarter of 2016.

Tăng cường hợp tác về KHCN giữa Công an - Quân đội - antv

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## Indos

Viet said:


> ok, didn´t know that Spain stops producing the aircraft. the airforce seems sastified by the aircraft, that makes sense ordering them more at Indonesia if demand is there. maybe the VPN may have placed one or two aircraft to check out the quality.
> 
> do you know if you have such C-295 variant?



As far as I know this is still prototype and under testing currently.


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## Viet

Headquarter of the division 308, one of elite units of the army, affectively responsible to protect the gateway to Hanoi, should enemy tanks break through the layers of border defence lines.

the banner reads: discipline is the strength of an army.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> we used to order the aircraft in spain. do you know how many aircraft we have ordered in your country and what capacity the bird has?



I've heard that the order if for another 3 aircraft.



Viet said:


> I don´t think the chinese spend billions of dollar creating artificial islands, runways and other civil and military facilities just for fun. no. their aim is obviously: controlling the SC Sea by their military outposts. they will station aircraft and missiles on the islands. 100 per cent. I want to be an optimist, but I think we must calculate with the worst case scenario.
> 
> right now we have 48 outposts in the Spratlys, but no runway long enough to host our fighter jets. again, the jets need 15 min to get there if a crisis ever occurs. why isn´t it possible for us to create a comprehensive defence network with our 48 outposts, to protect the islands and jets? the runway can be used by the jets in case of an emergency landing. technical reason for example. also, our fighter jets can extend the operation radius if they start from spratlys. we can react quicker if the jets are there. two are enough as quick reaction force.



The chinese can do it because they have the power to back up whatever they deploy in those islands, those islands and runways are big enough not only for fighter jets, but for any kind of large planes, big radars, air defense systems, etc and its all backed up by a big fleet with powerful air defense destroyers (Type 52D). They can deploy assets from the mainland as needed. Still, its all vulnerable to Vietnam's ballistic missiles. Its not too difficult to destroy those islands with ballistic missiles. And even in that case, if they get destroyed, what the chinese will lose is actually of little significance considering all the military assets that they have.

For Vietnam on the other hand, it would be suicidal to deploy fighter jets or to base any important ships there or anything of importance for that matter. Those assets would get taken out easily at the start of a conflict and there isn't much that Vietnam can do to protect them. Those assets would be sitting ducks waiting to be destroyed.

China can deploy more fighter jets to those islands than what the whole Vietnamese air force has; the chinese navy can do the same with their naval assets. Vietnam needs to lay low and in case of war use stand off weapons such as the ballistic missiles and anti ship missile attacks from the air force and small naval units, assuming that they can get close enough. The Kilo submarines should be able to do a good job. Other than that, those islands will get taken in no time, they are not defensible by their own means, at least not against a big power like the chinese.

I used to ask SK in the past about deploying fighter jets to the islands and he said: no way in hell, they'll get taken out in a surprise attack at the start of a conflict. Plus, the marine environment is very nasty for aircraft. Also, the Vietnamese islands are way too small at the moment, they can't support permanent deployment of aircraft and all the support systems for them, etc. Runways need to be much longer.

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## CountStrike

2 thông tin bất ngờ về phi đội C-212 của Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam | Quân sự | soha.vn


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## Aqsuperman

Type 53/65 torp with 530mm warhead


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## AViet

I am glad if Vietnam actually bought C212 from Indonesia, not Spain. We should buy from each other, provided that products meet our requirements, not falling into stupid thinking "because they are made in EU/Japan/the US, their quality must be superior". Alas, this stupidity is still prevalent in many high-rank government officials in Vietnam.

Together with "equipment from G7" (G7 here mean Group of Seven rich countries) regulation which set forth in many government bidding, few people understand that it will entail G7 spare parts, G7 maintenance cost, G7 price for specialists called from the US or EU, all of which will accumulate into operating cost of any enterprise and can make them paralyzed.

In addition, nowadays, equipment from G7 no longer mean reliable. In my experiences, they can break down any time, just like equipment from Korea, Taiwan or China (one of the reasons is that G7 countries possibly no longer actually make these equipment, but outsourced to Southern European, East European etc. where the labour cost is much lower).

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## Indos

AViet said:


> I am glad if Vietnam actually bought C212 from Indonesia, not Spain. We should buy from each other, provided that products meet our requirements, not falling into stupid thinking "because they are made in EU/Japan/the US, their quality must be superior". Alas, this stupidity is still prevalent in many high-rank government officials in Vietnam.
> 
> Together with "equipment from G7" (G7 here mean Group of Seven rich countries) regulation which set forth in many government bidding, few people understand that it will entail G7 spare parts, G7 maintenance cost, G7 price for specialists called from the US or EU, all of which will accumulate into operating cost of any enterprise and can make them paralyzed.
> 
> In addition, nowadays, equipment from G7 no longer mean reliable. In my experiences, they can break down any time, just like equipment from Korea, Taiwan or China (one of the reasons is that G7 countries possibly no longer actually make these equipment, but outsourced to Southern European, East European etc. where the labour cost is much lower).



Thanks for this comment,

Yup, true, even South Korea bough CN 235 from us, and this also might be one of the reasons of why South Korea chooses Indonesia as their partner in KFX program beside our design capabilities and experience, and other factors.

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## Viet

CountStrike said:


> 2 thông tin bất ngờ về phi đội C-212 của Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam | Quân sự | soha.vn


ok, from the website. according to canhsatbien.vn (11/2015), the Prime Minister has approved a 5 year plan to strengthen the Coast Guard by various types of vessels including:

- DN-4000 (4,000 tons), DN-2000 (2,000 tons), TT-1500 (1,500 tons), TT-400 (400 tons), replenishment tanker 1,000 tons, search-and-rescue ships (SAR)
- 3 more aircraft C-212-400 ordered at PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI). same configuration as the first three aircraft ordered in Spain. Bringing the total number of aircraft to 6.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ok, from the website. according to canhsatbien.vn (11/2015), the Prime Minister has approved a 5 year plan to strengthen the Coast Guard by various types of vessels including:
> 
> - DN-4000 (4,000 tons), DN-2000 (2,000 tons), TT-1500 (1,500 tons), TT-400 (400 tons), replenishment tanker 1,000 tons, search-and-rescue ships (SAR)
> - 3 more aircraft C-212-400 ordered at PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PTDI). same configuration as the first three aircraft ordered in Spain. Bringing the total number of aircraft to 6.



Is there any details about the TT-1500 (1,500 tons)?


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## Carlosa

*A treat for you guys, the Carlosa Special Report about the C-212 marine patrol bird of Vietnam, you are not going to find this article anywhere, I put it together myself from a variety of sources:*

The Casa 212-400 aircraft is the latest version of the C212 model manufactured by Airbus. The plane accommodates a crew of three and can be used for long patrol journeys. The aircraft can transport 24 soldiers or a cabin load of 2.7 tons, in addition, it is also equipped with two hard points, can carry guided missiles and unguided rockets, for a total weapons payload of 500 kg.

A Casa 212-400 is 16.1 meters long, 6.5 meters tall, and has a wingspan of 20.2 meters. The plane can fly at a maximum speed of 370 kph, with a range of 1,800 km.

The plane is also equipped with a MSS-6000 airborne maritime surveillance system which is made in Sweden.

The core of the MSS-6000 is a mission management system that links all available information together and presents a situation overview to the operator for interpretation and further action. The mission management system is based on GIS (Geographical Information System) technology, and the available information is presented against a backdrop of a digital nautical chart.

*These aircraft in the service to Vietnam will not only enhance the surveillance capabilities of the sea, it will have a certain airborne early warning capability.*

The Casa-212 can operate during the day and at night and in all weather conditions. It can take off and land at makeshift airports with short, narrow runways.

Equipped with two propeller turbine engines, the aircraft can fly at very low altitude, making it ideal for patrolling and identifying vessels at sea, spotting oil spills, and con- ducting rescue missions.

*MSS 6000 Maritime surveillance system to support oil spill, rescue operations in Vietnamese waters*

The Vietnamese contract comes from the Vietnam Marine Police, which has ordered systems for installation on three new CASA C212-400 aircraft – a project that takes three years to complete. The contract has an extensive scope, including installation and testing of the systems in the aircraft, establishment of a ground station and mission command center, and operational and technical training of personnel.

*SSC will supply a fully integrated MSS 6000 system, including SLAR (side-looking airborne radar), still and video cameras, airborne AIS (automatic identification system for ships), an IR/UV (infra-red/ultra-violet) line scanner, an FLIR (forward-looking infra-red) scanner, and communications via high-speed satellite data-link and HF (high frequency) radio.*

The customer will use the equipment for patrolling Vietnamese waters, detecting and responding to oil spills and illegal fishing activities, protecting the economic zone, and participating in search-and-rescue operations.

The MSS 6000 provides an effective means to monitor activities in national waters and to detect unwanted or illegal events, such as oil pollution, whether accidental or deliberate, and unauthorized fishing. The technology can also be applied to monitoring movement of ice, likely to become increasingly important as offshore oil and gas operations spread to arctic regions.

Data from the different sensors is processed, integrated, and presented in one integrated view to the operator. All recordings are annotated with GPS data and digitally stored in an on-board geographical database. Data and digital images are presented integrated with an electronic nautical chart data base and also correlated with the mission report, all at the operator’s finger-tips. All information from the mission is saved and can be compiled in mission reports and sent via the satellite data-link to a command center and/or cooperating units.

Since the technology was first launched in the 1970s, its capabilities have continually expanded. “With the MSS 5000, which we launched in the 1990s, we were able to do things we could only dream of in the 1970s,” says Colliander, from the manufacturing company. “The MSS 6000 does things we didn’t even dream of.

“*We can safely say that we give a better performance than military surveillance systems at a fraction of the cost*. We’re now exploring what the advent of broadband communications enables us to do. We’ve put a lot of effort into developing software for the man/machine interface. We have kept the system user-friendly and intuitive: one operator can handle it all.”

*One of the MSS 6000’s capabilities is to read a ship’s name at a distance of 10 nautical miles in the middle of the night.* This makes it an important weapon in combating illegal fishing – cheating occurs frequently with the transponders on fishing vessels, so being able covertly to read ships’ names provides an important means of checking their true identity.

*FEATURES*

*Search radar*

*A search radar can be added to the system for general surveillance. The MSS 6000 is designed to interface to a forward looking or 360 degrees search radar for importing target tracks into the tactical map database.*

*SLAR*

*The Side Looking Airborne Radar*

*The main sensor of the MSS is the Side-Looking Airborne Radar (SLAR): a mapping radar for surveillance of large sea surfaces.*







The forward motion of the aircraft is utilized by the radar to scan the sea surface perpendicular to the flight track

Whereas a traditional radar typically obtains less than twenty echoes per radar scan from each target, the SLAR obtains up to a thousand. This gives a very high capacity for detecting small targets as well as for showing sea surface properties. Oil floating on the sea surface has a dampening effect on the sea clutter (capillary waves) resulting in less radar return to the aircraft from an oil slick than from the surrounding, undisturbed water surface, and this contrast is clearly visible in the SLAR image.

Objects with higher reflectivity to radar pulses than the sea surface will instead give a more intense radar return, and the resulting image will therefore show not only oil spills but also ships, boats and other small objects against a background picture of the sea surface.

Thus the SLAR is the ideal sensor for large area surveillance for both oils pollution and very small vessels, target types that are difficult at best, and often impossible, to detect with traditional radar technology.

The SLAR is a day and night sensor. It can be operated under all weather conditions.

MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy in positioning the SLAR image and will present the image either superimposed on a backdrop digital chart or display it as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".











*IR/UV SCANNER*

*The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of ship wakes, accident sites etc. It is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .*



The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of accident sites etc. It is capable of observing minute temperature differences on the water surface and is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .

The IR/UV scanner, operating in the 8.5-12.5µm region (IR) and in the 0.32-0.38 µm region (UV), provides high resolution imagery of oil spills and other features on the surface. IR data can be obtained both day and night providing information on the spreading of oil and also indicating the relative oil thickness within the oil slick. Usually 80% of the oil is concentrated within less than 20% of the visual oil slick. By using the IR information, the efficiency of clean-up operations can be greatly improved.






UV data is obtained during daylight conditions, and is primarily used to map the entire extent of an oil slick, irrespective of thickness. The UV data adds confidence to the IR registration by distinguishing between natural thermal phenomena, such as cold upwelling water, from suspected oil pollution. It also assists an on-scene commander in determining the location of the thicker parts an oil spill, thus adding to the efficiency of the clean-up operation.

The MSS 6000 will infterface to any IR/UV line scanner on the market.

MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy and the capability to either superimpose the IR and UV images on a backdrop digital chart or to display the images as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".

The information from the aircraft can be used as input to oil drift modelling, thus further enhancing the aircraft as an asset in your oil spill contingency planning.

*SSC CAMERA AND VIDEO CAMERA*

*The MSS 6000 still and video cameras provide digital imagery and video documentation. Each frame is annotated with relevant mission information for future, tamper-free reference. The built-in DGPS system provides accurate and consistent annotation of all MSS 6000 observations.*

The MSS 6000 assists the operator in keeping track of all exposures made with the still camera and video sequence registered with the video camera by logging the time and position of each exposure and displaying this information in a selectable digital map overlay. Imagery and other information are linked to the geographical position and to the operator's comment, thus creating a comprehensive folder of data to document an observed activity on the sea surface.

Video recordings can be made from the FLIR(Forward Looking Infrared) as well as from the handheld video camera to allow close-up documentation of activities on the sea surface. The video is stored digitally and can be reviewed either in the aircraft or on the ground. Video sequences or selected frames can also be transmitted over the data link.

*AIS - AUTOMATIC IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM*

*A (normally silent) airborne AIS transponder is integrated with the MSS 6000 system.*

The AIS receives identity information from all transponder equipped ships with VHF distance in the patrol area. Live AIS information is displayed on the MSS 6000 map display and logged in the built-in target database. The possibility for the operator to immediatly compare AIS information with target information acquired from other sensors, will greatly facilitate the control of all sea surface activities within the patrol area.

AIS contacts plotted on a patrol of the St. Lawrence inlet (Courtesy Transport Canada)








*FLIR /EO-SENSOR*

*Forward Looking Infrared-/Electro-Optical Sensor*

*A FLIR is an indispensable supplementary sensor for most mission profiles. It will add day and night identification and documentation capability to complement the information gathered from other on-board or external sources.*

The FLIR is integrated into the surveillance system. Imagery from the FLIR is annotated and stored together with the all other mission data. The FLIR can also be slaved to any target position or geographical reference in the MSS 6000 database as selected by the operator, thus facilitating the sorting and identification of targets detected by other means.
Most FLIRs in the market can be integrated to the MSS 6000 system. The pictures show the Wescam MX-16 gyro estabilised sensor,the FLIR systems, the EuroFLIR 350 and the Star Q sensor.









*MWR - THE MICROWAVE RADIOMETER*

*If oil pollution control is one of your main missions, the Microwave Radiometer may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*

The SLAR will map the area of the oil slick. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner.Examples of Infrared and Microwave Radiometer registrations
of an oil spill.








*LFS - LASER FLOUROSENSOR*

*If pollution control is one of your main missions, the Laser Fluorosensor System may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*

The SLAR will detect and map the extent of an oil spill on the sea surface. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner. The Microwave Radiometer will measure the thickness and thusgive a better estimate of the volume of the spill.The Laser Fluorosensor can be said to take a "finger print" of some of the properties of the surface beneath the aircraft

A deeper analysis of the oil pollution is achieved from the Laser Fluorosensor. Its sensitivity to very thin oil films on the water surface, makes this sensor an interesting addition to the sensor package. Apart from the pollution related applications this instrument can also be used for hydrographical measurements and for algae monitoring.

The LFS-light can assist the operator in distinguishing between oil and other substances and to analyze the optical signature of different oil types which has been assembled from a catalogue of the optical properties of different oils from laboratory investigations.

On request a laser fluorosensor can be integrated into the MSS 6000 system.

*ATCOM - SATELLITE COMMUNICATION*

*For real-time in-flight data communication a SATCOM system is integrated with the MSS. With a high-speed SATCOM link the mission report with images and tactical map snapshots captured during the mission can be delivered while in the air or by e-mail or mobile phone after landing. With a low-speed SATCOM link only short messages with information of position and properties of observed activities on the sea surface will be delivered while in the air and mission report and pictures will follow by e-mail or mobile phone data transferred after landing. The recorded mission can also be replayed after landing in the aircraft or on a ground station.*

High-speed satellite communications is integrated in the MSS 6000 system for real-time information to other units in the surveillance operation.

*VMS - VESSEL MONITORING SYSTEM*

*The integrated Vessel Monitoring System (VMS) functionality provides a possibility to upload information on fishing vessels from the national fisheries authority to be accessed together with other mission data.*

*DF - DIRECTION FINDER*

*The Direction Finder (DF) functionality provides direction information on radio transmitters, including the 406 MHz emergency frequency and decoding of COSPAS/SARSAT data.*

*MSS 6000 OPERATOR WORK STATION*

*The MSS 6000 operator workstation is innovatibly and ergonomically designed; from his or her seat, the operator has access to all system functionality.*

The MSS design allows for more than one operator workstation on board the aircraft, each with configurable functionality. Thus the work distribution between the operators may be configured to maximize mission effectiveness, according to the requirements of the customer organization.

*MISSION COMMAND CENTRE - MCC*

*With the Mission Command Centre SSC has developed a new addition to its maritime surveillance concept.*





_he MCC in command mode showing the tactical map_.

The first complete MCC will be delivered together with three MSS 6000 equipped aircraft to the Vietnam Marine Police.

The MCC provides an exquisite tool for the Mission Command to plan, follow, analyze and archive the missions of all flying units.

In the MCC the mission is prepared before flight and followed and managed from the ground in real time during the flight.

The MCC displays the flight track of all flying units on the tactical map. It receives data from the aircraft including position, updates, incident reports, AIS and target information, images and streaming video. The incoming data is shown on a digital map in the MCC to give an overview of the situation. From the MCC further instructions can be issued to the aircraft in real time on how to proceed with the mission.

All mission information is stored in a database from where it can be analyzed processed. Using the filter functions and background databases, important information about ship movements and the identity and activity of observed vessels can be easily visualized on the screen.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, with the 3 C-212 planes (soon to be 6) and the 3 DH-6 planes of the marine patrol version, VN has a basic, but decent marine patrol capability. Its not like the big marine patrol / ASW planes but its quite decent and cheap to operate, specially for coast guard needs. Those planes are small but they pack some serious hardware, particularly the C-212 with the MSS system which is very sophisticated and for many applications is as good as the big marine patrol planes, even better in some aspects and it also provides a basic AWACS capability.

Obviously the next step would be the C-295 MPA / ASW version (or the P-3C Orion), hopefully soon.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Is there any details about the TT-1500 (1,500 tons)?


can´t find the number. here is the full article on the website of the Vietnam Coast Guard. I could make a brief translation later.

Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam

* Phát triển, hiện đại hóa trang bị cho Cảnh sát biển, đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ trong tình hình mới *

17:12 | 09/11/2015
(Canhsatbien.vn) - Là một trong những lực lượng được xác định xây dựng tiến thẳng lên hiện đại, Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam đã, đang và sẽ tiếp tục được đầu tư để phát triển toàn diện, đặc biệt là về phương tiện, vũ khí trang bị kỹ thuật nhằm tăng cường khả năng hoạt động xa bờ, đáp ứng yêu cầu quản lý vùng biển nhanh chóng, chính xác, hiệu quả trong tình hình mới.

Colonel Nguyen Van Hung

Thực hiện Nghị quyết Đại hội Đảng bộ Quân đội lần thứ IX về xây dựng Quân đội từng bước tiến lên hiện đại, trong đó có một số lực lượng tiến thẳng lên hiện đại, những năm vừa qua, cùng với một số lực lượng khác trong Quân đội, Cảnh sát biển đã được Đảng, Nhà nước, Quân ủy Trung ương, BQP quan tâm, đầu tư mua sắm, đưa vào biên chế nhiều phương tiện tàu thuyền, máy bay, xe, máy, vũ khí trang bị kỹ thuật (VKTBKT) mới, hiện đại, có giá trị lớn. Hiện, toàn lực lượng đã có trên 70 tàu xuồng các loại, 03 máy bay tuần thám, hơn 100 xe ô tô cùng VKTBKT và các trang thiết bị phục vụ chuyên ngành trinh sát, phòng chống tội phạm ma túy khác. Đặc biệt, gần đây được trang bị thêm một số tàu hiện đại, có lượng giãn nước lớn, đủ sức hoạt động ở các vùng biển xa như tàu DN-2000, tàu TK-3500CV,…






Thủ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng, BTL Cảnh sát biển tham quan hệ thống điều khiển hiện đại tadu CSB 8002._ (ảnh: Liên Nhâm)_

Tuy nhiên, xuất phát từ chức năng, nhiệm vụ của Lực lượng CSB: Là nòng cốt trong bảo vệ chủ quyền, thực thi pháp luật, TKCN trên tất cả các vùng biển, thềm lục địa của Tổ quốc; Xuất phát từ diễn biến ngày càng phức tạp trên biển, đặt ra yêu cầu, nhiệm vụ ngày càng nặng nề hơn, đa dạng hơn cho Lực lượng CSB.

Mặc dù đã được đầu tư phát triển mạnh mẽ trong thời gian vừa qua, song số lượng tàu thuyền, xe - máy, VKTBKT của Lực lượng CSB hiện nay vẫn chưa đủ để đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ. Tình hình trên biển lại luôn diễn biến phức tạp cả về vấn đề an ninh truyền thống và an ninh phi truyền thống với những nguyên nhân khác nhau. Từ thực tiễn thực hiện nhiệm vụ trên biển và đấu tranh bảo vệ chủ quyền trên vùng biển Hoàng Sa của Việt Nam năm 2014 cho thấy, Lực lượng CSB VN rất cần thiết phải có nhiều tàu lớn có sức cơ động cao với trang bị vũ khí, hệ thống tiếp nhận và xử lý thông tin tiên tiến, hiện đại, có tích hợp điện tử và tự động hóa cao.

Cùng với đó, năm 2014, Thủ tướng Chính phủ đã phê duyệt Đề án xây dựng Lực lượng CSB VN đến năm 2020 và những năm tiếp theo với mục tiêu: “Xây dựng Lực lượng CSB hiện đại chuyên nghiệp, tổ chức biên chế hợp lý, tinh gọn, trang bị đồng bộ đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ bảo vệ chủ quyền, thực thi pháp luật trên biển và hợp tác quốc tế; làm cơ sở để xây dựng hoàn chỉnh Lực lượng CSB VN trong những năm tiếp theo”. Nghị quyết Đại hội Đảng bộ Quân đội lần thứ X, nhiệm kỳ 2015-2020 cũng đã xác định chủ trương xây dựng Lực lượng Cảnh sát biển tiến thẳng lên hiện đại nhằm đáp ứng yêu cầu quản lý, bảo vệ vùng biển trong tình hình mới.

Mặt khác, hiện nay chúng ta đang thực hiện chủ trương xây dựng các Lực lượng Hải quân, Phòng không - không quân, Thông tin, Tác chiến điện tử tiến thẳng lên hiện đại. Đây là các lực lượng mà khi có tình huống cao thì Lực lượng CSB hoặc phải phối thuộc, hoặc phải phối hợp hiệp đồng. Do vậy, nếu CSB không hiện đại thì khả năng hiệp đồng sẽ không đảm bảo được tính đồng bộ và hiệu quả; Sự chuyển hóa từ nhiệm vụ thực thi pháp luật trong thời bình sang nhiệm vụ tác chiến trong thời chiến sẽ không đảm bảo được tính kịp thời, nhanh chóng và chính xác.

Từ những yêu cầu thực tiễn trên cho thấy sự cần thiết phải nhanh chóng hiện đại hóa Lực lượng CSB, trong đó hiện đại hóa trang bị là nội dung cơ bản. Chỉ có hiện đại hóa trang bị, phương tiện mới có đủ khả năng vươn khơi xa và dài ngày để thực hiện tốt chức năng, nhiệm vụ được giao.

*Phương hướng hiện đại hóa trang bị cho Lực lượng CSB VN*

Để xây dựng Lực lượng CSB tiến thẳng lên hiện đại trong tình hình hiện nay, Đảng ủy, Thủ trưởng Bộ Tư lệnh cũng như Thủ trưởng Cục Kỹ thuật nhận thức rõ: hiện đại phải quán triệt tinh thần 3 khâu đột phá, đó là: đột phá hiện đại về mặt tổ chức, tinh gọn và cân đối; đột phá hiện đại về mặt con người: làm chủ được trang bị hiện đại; hiện đại để phòng thủ, bảo vệ Tổ quốc và kịp thời xử lý hiệu quả các tình huống chứ không để phô trương hay chạy đua vũ trang. Khi hiện đại hóa trang bị phải coi trọng việc đồng bộ theo chủng loại giữa các lực lượng được hiện đại; nhất là các trang bị liên quan đến thông tin, trinh sát, chỉ thị mục tiêu, sử dụng trong chiến thuật tác chiến… có như vậy mới phát huy được hiệu quả của trang bị hiện đại và sức mạnh của VKTBKT trong hiệp đồng tác chiến quân binh chủng; bảo đảm khoa học và tiết kiệm.

Hiện đại hóa trang bị phải được tiến hành song song với xây dựng ngành Kỹ thuật chính quy; phát huy tính tích cực chủ động, sáng tạo, tự lực, tự cường, làm chủ VKTBKT và công nghệ. Ngoài việc giữ gìn, bảo quản, cải tiến có chọn lọc phương tiện, VKTBKT hiện có, cần thiết phải đầu tư đóng mới, mua sắm tàu thuyền, VKTBKT hiện đại, đó là:

- Tăng cường đóng mới tàu thuyền có lượng giãn nước lớn, có hàm lượng công nghệ và sức cơ động cao, có khả năng hoạt động dài ngày trên biển trong điều kiện thời tiết phức tạp và trước nguy cơ thường xuyên bị đâm húc của các tàu lớn nước ngoài khi đấu tranh bảo vệ chủ quyền); tính chất hoạt động đa năng (vừa tuần tra kiểm soát vừa có thể tham gia TKCN, bảo vệ môi trường biển…); có sàn đỗ máy bay,...

- Vũ khí, trang thiết bị: từ hệ thống động lực, thiết bị điều khiển, trang thiết bị khí tài điện tử, vũ khí đến các thiết bị thông tin, ghi hình, truyền dữ liệu… đưa vào lắp đặt trên tàu phải hiện đại, đồng thời đáp ứng các yêu cầu gọn nhẹ, khả năng cơ động cao, trình độ tự động và độ chính xác cao, chuyển hóa linh hoạt trong tác chiến, có uy lực lớn, có nhiều hàm lượng KH-CN, bảo đảm hoạt động trong mọi điều kiện.

- Bảo đảm các hoạt động chỉ huy, chỉ đạo, tác chiến, trinh sát được thống nhất, đồng bộ, nhanh chóng, liên tục, bí mật, an toàn, ổn định, vững chắc trong mọi tình huống. Bảo đảm hoạt động đồng bộ bờ - tàu, tàu - tàu, tàu - máy bay, làm cơ sở để chỉ đạo từ Sở chỉ huy đến các lực lượng; bảo đảm công tác phối hợp hiệp đồng giữa các đơn vị hiệp đồng, các phương tiện xe - máy và đảm bảo việc thu thập dữ liệu làm bằng chứng trong đấu tranh chống vi phạm tội phạm trên biển cũng như đấu tranh pháp lý, chính trị, ngoại giao để bảo vệ chủ quyền biển đảo.

- Đầu tư mua sắm trang thiết bị hiện đại phục vụ cho các hoạt động nghiệp vụ CSB (trinh sát, phòng chống tội phạm, vi phạm), các thiết bị phân tích, đánh giá chất lượng hàng hóa để bảo đảm cho hoạt động nghiệp vụ hiệu quả và phục vụ công tác điều tra, chống buôn lậu.

Theo Đề án Xây dựng Lực lượng CSB VN đã được Thủ tướng Chính phủ phê duyệt năm 2014, từ nay đến năm 2020, Lực lượng CSB sẽ được đầu tư đóng mới thêm hàng chục tàu thuyền các loại, trong đó có tàu DN-4000, DN-2000, TT-1500, TT-400, tàu dầu 1000 tấn, tàu tìm kiếm cứu nạn xa bờ (tàu SAR)…Về mua sắm trang bị, sắp tới tiếp tục mua thêm máy bay CASA-212, máy bay trực thăng cùng nhiều trang thiết bị chuyên ngành khác của các khối Tham mưu, Chính trị, Hậu cần, Kỹ thuật, Nghiệp vụ, Quan hệ quốc tế…

Với số lượng phương tiện, tàu thuyền, máy bay, VKTBKT hiện đại được đầu tư, mua sắm, trang bị theo đúng yêu cầu chỉ tiêu, tiến độ của Đề án sẽ đảm bảo cho Lực lượng CSB hoàn thành tốt hơn nữa nhiệm vụ được giao, nâng cao hiệu quả quản lý vùng biển thuộc chủ quyền của đất nước.






Hạ thủy tàu CSB 9004. _(ảnh: Anh Tuấn)_

*Một số nội dung cần thiết để thực hiện hiện đại hóa Lực lượng CSB*

Trên cơ sở phát triển, hiện đại hóa về phương tiện trang bị cho CSB theo Đề án Xây dựng LL CSB VN đến năm 2020 và những năm tiếp theo, để có được những bước đi vững chắc nhằm hiện đại hóa lực lượng cả về con người và trang bị, cần song song triển khai thực hiện một số nội dung, yêu cầu sau:

_*Một là,*_ làm tốt công tác quy hoạch trang bị, đóng mới, mua sắm tàu thuyền, máy bay, VKTBKT hiện đại. Lựa chọn đối tác đóng tàu đủ năng lực cung cấp các trang thiết bị hiện đại, phù hợp, đáp ứng yêu cầu đóng tàu về cả chất lượng, tiến độ. Song song với việc lựa chọn các trang bị kỹ thuật hiện đại là chuyển giao công nghệ để nâng cao khả năng làm chủ (sửa chữa, khôi phục, cải tiến, cải hoán,...) VKTBKT.

_*Hai là,*_ quan tâm xây dựng nguồn nhân lực, con người hiện đại: có đủ bản lĩnh; đủ năng lực chỉ huy, chỉ đạo và trình độ chuyên môn nghiệp vụ vững vàng để quản lý, khai thác, làm chủ các loại VKTBKT hiện đại, đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ trong mọi tình huống. Quan tâm đến công tác tuyển chọn đội ngũ cán bộ, nhân viên kỹ thuật: có đủ số lượng, đủ cơ cấu ngành nghề. Quan tâm đến công tác đào tạo, huấn luyện, bồi dưỡng đội ngũ cán bộ, nhân viên kỹ thuật: Cả trình độ chỉ huy, quản lý, trình độ chuyên môn nghiệp vụ; tăng cường đột phá vào công tác huấn luyện, chuyển giao công nghệ từ khi triển khai đóng mới tàu hay tiếp nhận trang bị mới; trong đó trọng tâm là đội ngũ cán bộ, nhân viên trực tiếp khai thác, sử dụng VKTBKT; tăng cường các hội thi, hội thao thực sự có chất lượng, hiệu quả, nhằm thúc đẩy phong trào huấn luyện tại đơn vị, phấn đấu làm chủ VKTBKT trong cả tình huống khó khăn phức tạp nhất.

_*Ba là,*_ đầu tư xây dựng cơ sở bảo đảm kỹ thuật hiện đại và tạo nguồn vật tư dự trữ đầy đủ. Đầu tư xây dựng các trạm sửa chữa tổng hợp hiện đại tại các BTL Vùng CSB và các Hải đội đóng quân độc lập (có đủ trang thiết bị công nghệ, quy trình công nghệ, chuyên gia kỹ thuật, vật tư phụ tùng dự phòng thay thế) nhằm nâng cao năng lực tự bảo đảm cho các đơn vị, đáp ứng yêu cầu bảo quản, bảo dưỡng và sửa chữa cấp hàng hải. Xây dựng kho kỹ thuật tại cơ quan, đơn vị có khả năng cất chứa đa dạng chủng loại vật tư, số lượng lớn, bảo đảm kịp thời. Tạo nguồn vật tư kỹ thuật; ZIP dự trữ tàu, bờ bảo đảm cho thực hiện nhiệm vụ thường xuyên và các tình huống cao, đột xuất, đòi hỏi lượng vật tư thay thế lớn. Trong đó có cả lượng vật tư dự trữ quốc gia, vật tư dự trữ cấp chiến lược (của BTL CSB bố trí tại các đơn vị) và vật tư dự trữ thường xuyên.

_*Bốn là,*_ đẩy mạnh hoạt động khoa học công nghệ, các đề tài nghiên cứu, sáng kiến cải tiến kỹ thuật sâu rộng trong toàn lực lượng, tạo ra nhiều sản phẩm thiết thực, ứng dụng có hiệu quả trong công tác bảo đảm kỹ thuật và ứng dụng mạnh mẽ CNTT trong công tác quản lý, chỉ đạo, điều hành các hoạt động CTKT.

_*Năm là,*_ thực hiện mạnh mẽ, có chiều sâu về “Xây dựng nền nếp chính quy kỹ thuật và làm chủ VKTBKT”.

_*Sáu là,*_ phát huy nội lực, đồng thời tăng cường các mối quan hệ tạo cơ chế phối hợp, hiệp đồng với các lực lượng có liên quan, các nhà máy, xí nghiệp sửa chữa, các hãng cung cấp thiết bị để kịp thời bảo đảm vật tư kỹ thuật, sửa chữa VKTBKT trong thời gian ngắn nhất, hiệu quả nhất, bảo đảm phương tiện tàu thuyền luôn sẵn sàng thực hiện nhiệm vụ trong mọi tình huống.

_*Bảy là,*_ tăng cường công tác dự báo tình huống nhằm nâng cao khả năng xử lý, xử trí các tình huống, đồng thời đảm bảo công tác chuẩn bị mọi mặt đầy đủ (về tạo nguồn vật tư dự trữ, phương thức bảo đảm,... ) để không bị động bất ngờ, không gián đoạn công tác bảo đảm trong bất kỳ tình huống nào.

_*Tóm lại,*_ để đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ trong tình hình mới, thì việc hiện đại hóa phương tiện, trang bị cho Cảnh sát biển là đòi hỏi khách quan và tất yếu. Hiện đại hóa phương tiện, trang bị không chỉ đầu tư phát triển trang bị hiện đại mà cùng với đó là đầu tư phát triển nguồn lực con người, cơ sở vật chất bảo đảm và cơ chế hoạt động phù hợp mới đáp ứng được yêu cầu khai thác, làm chủ VKTBKT, góp phần hoàn thành chức năng, nhiệm vụ được giao trong mọi tình huống.

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## Aqsuperman

Su 30 with missiles , probably a R-27 variant


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Type 53/65 torp with 530mm warhead


when the last sub is delivered this year, the Navy should buy the complete production line of the Kilo from Russia (given, they sell it), so we can self assemble as many as submarines as we want.


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## yugocrosrb95



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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> when the last sub is delivered this year, the Navy should buy the complete production line of the Kilo from Russia (given, they sell it), so we can self assemble as many as submarines as we want.


Hopeful but highly unlikely  We lack both the capacity and the quality workforce to do that , not to mention the investment required to put up the line then the time to produce ones with inexperienced worker that usuallys only deal with surface boat and alike . The Molniya class and even the TT 400 TP that we currently produce still need considerble Russia assistance , imagine what would happen with submarine . For the technology transfer i prefer the P-800 and missiles technology , of course we should also get as many as we can about boat technology but to complete a submarine is a bit hard and uneconomical in this "urgent time" 

More coming :3


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## Viet

I think, it´s a well written report from Stratfor, analyzing the internal debate within the leadership of Vietnam and how the country responses to the actual geopolical challenges. some points are wellknown, written and published in other media. however I notice one major point in the article that was not known before: "Most alarming to China is Vietnam's growing acceptance of the resurgent Japanese navy, with Hanoi agreeing in November 2015 to construct new port facilities ahead of a Japanese port call, foreshadowing long-term cooperation." our japanese friend @Nihonjin1051 may be interested of the news.



*Vietnam: Cautious, but Unpredictable in a Crisis*

January 12, 2016 | 09:31 GMT
Stratfor




_Vietnamese leaders, including Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, President Truong Tan Sang and Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, on Oct. 20, 2015. (STR/AFP/Getty Images) 
_

*Forecast*

_Vietnam will continue to integrate with the global economy and pursue security cooperation with Russia, India and its Southeast Asian neighbors._
_The country's imperatives, aligned with those of the Communist Party, will prevent a wholehearted embrace of the United States._
_Divisions within the party will limit Vietnam's ties with China, risking indecision during any short, sharp crises in the South China Sea._
*Analysis*

The past two decades brought about sweeping changes in Southeast Asia — no country knows this better than Vietnam. Much like China, a strongly centralized Communist Party rules Vietnam, and from Jan. 20 to Jan. 28 the party will gather for its national congress. Held every five years, this Communist assembly will select a new general secretary, Politburo and Central Committee. But rather than being progressive, in many ways, this leadership transition will simply solidify the country's existing strategic configuration.

The party intent is to publicly display a consensus on Vietnam's path over the next five years. However, the plenum will serve to showcase the enduring rifts that exist between competing factions, divided when it comes to Vietnam's future. One of the main disagreements centers on Hanoi's contentious but indispensable relationship with Beijing. Such divisions have prevented an orderly succession plan from taking shape ahead of the plenum and point to a longer-term breakdown in unity if matters cannot be resolved. Geopolitically speaking, Vietnam's imperatives — coupled with the Communist Party's own internal logic — mean the country will not become dramatically more antagonistic toward China: But neither will it wholeheartedly embrace the United States.


*Vietnam's Geographic Challenge*

Hanoi's core strategy is one of balance. Internally, the party needs to achieve harmony among its competing political factions. Externally, it seeks to avoid an overreliance on any single foreign power. This strategic outlook is shaped by Vietnam's history of conflict, not only with Asian countries such as China but with Western powers as well. There are also two distinctly modern factors at play. First, the Vietnamese Communist Party is attempting to maintain its power during a time of rapid economic liberalization and social change, and it fears reopening the historical regional fractures that split the country in the past century. Second, Vietnam is embroiled in a regional dispute with China over the South China Sea. Hanoi's involvement in the maritime quarrel is complicated: It does not want to concede territory, but Vietnam's military is comparatively weaker, and its economy is heavily reliant on Chinese trade and investment. These factors feed into one another — the country's lack of external balance threatens the party's internal equilibrium, risking policy incoherence and paralysis.


*The East-West Divide*

After the United States pulled its troops out of Vietnam in 1975, diplomatic relations between the two countries have been inconsistent. With the West out of the picture, Vietnam went on to repeatedly clash with China in the decade following the U.S. withdrawal. Hanoi's forces fought against Chinese Khmer Rouge proxies in Cambodia in 1979, though a direct confrontation did not occur until 1988, when a naval skirmish in the South China Sea ended badly for the Vietnamese. This recent history still colors Hanoi's outlook today. When Soviet aid dried up in the final days of the Cold War, Vietnam recognized the need to integrate with international markets and the importance of attracting foreign investment. Hanoi was divided when it came to accepting its Cold War foes.

With a U.S. trade embargo in place, normalization with China came first in 1991, empowering the Vietnamese Communist Party's mostly northern conservative blocs, which favored continued hostility toward the West. Despite this, Washington and Hanoi eventually normalized relations in 1995. Beijing's repeated efforts to insert oil rigs into contested waters have given U.S.-Vietnamese relations an unexpected boost.

However, the country has never been one for unanimity. Today, Vietnam's senior leadership can be roughly divided into three broad camps: pro-West reformists, led by the powerful Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung; pro-China conservatives, led by current Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong; and a relatively moderate wing of improvers led by President Truong Tan Sang. For much of Prime Minister Dung's 10 years in office, the clout of the reformist wing has surged, bolstered by the economic heft of the south. And its emphasis on statecraft over socialist ideology is believed to match the prevailing mood in the party's 175-person Central Committee.

During Vietnam's 2014 oil rig standoff with China, the charismatic prime minister took a more nationalist stance than many of his counterparts, which appealed to the public. Dung also emerged relatively unscathed following two attempts to remove him from office with a no confidence vote in the Central Committee (engineered by the pro-China camp, first in 2012 and again last January). Dung also gained substantial support from the conservative military elite through his military modernization drive, which led Vietnam to develop one of Southeast Asia's strongest maritime and missile capabilities, thanks to help from Russia. Though the 66-year-old is technically required to retire if he plans to pursue the general secretary post, Dung is expected to seek an exemption similar to the one granted to Trong in 2011. The pro-China camp has no comparably strong candidate.


*Vietnam's Embrace of the West*

If Dung or one of his reformist allies takes the top spot at the head of the party, it would further confirm Vietnam's ongoing shift to the West. However, Vietnam's strategic direction over the next five years will not significantly hinge on individuals. For example, the party's draft Political Report and Socio-Economic Plan for 2016-2020 — composed by party reformists and conservatives alike and expected to be ratified at the upcoming congress — makes Western integration a major priority.

Even under Trong's guidance as general secretary, the Vietnamese Communist Party has signed off on a number of significant measures, including World Trade Organization accession in 2007. Trong himself made a landmark visit to Washington last summer and Hanoi's willingness to stay the course through contentious negotiations over the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership speaks volumes. Vietnam is positioned to benefit greatly from the 12-nation trade pact, but the deal, along with the free trade agreement it signed with the European Union last month, is not without risk for Hanoi. Implementation requires the party to relinquish some degree of control over the country's delicate economic liberalization process.

This could lead to contentious regulatory overhauls and labor reforms. Some of these measures, in addition to opening Vietnamese industries to global competition, will threaten the direct interests of the country's dominant and largely autonomous state-owned enterprises, whose influence is interwoven with party patronage networks. Yet, Hanoi would not have stuck through the negotiations if it were not relatively united on the overriding imperative to diversify away from Chinese investors.








Meanwhile, China's push into the South China Sea has compelled Vietnam to strengthen defense ties with a range of other partners. Most alarming to China is Vietnam's growing acceptance of the resurgent Japanese navy, with Hanoi agreeing in November 2015 to construct new port facilities ahead of a Japanese port call, foreshadowing long-term cooperation. International economic integration, along with greater security cooperation with outside powers such as Japan, India and the United States, will be a core focus for Vietnam's future leaders, regardless of who is in charge.


*Caution and Consensus*

Nonetheless, in military matters and in trade, Hanoi will move carefully to keep its strategic options open and avoid an overreliance on any single outside power. Greater economic integration with the rest of the world will not fully offset Vietnam's heavy dependence on the Chinese economy, and the Communist Party will not risk provoking a breakdown in relations with China that disrupts its economic trajectory, thereby fomenting popular discontent.

Militarily, Vietnam needs outside help. Hanoi will accept assistance, too, but it remains wary of serving as a battleground for great competing powers — lingering memories of the Cold War run deep. In a 2014 speech, Dung himself lambasted U.S. imperialism. Japan and South Korea's recent deal over the treatment of wartime "comfort women" more than 70 years ago highlights how long such issues can remain politically volatile. Regardless of how Hanoi views China's pursuit of its territorial claims, Vietnam will avoid provoking a prolonged military standoff with the Chinese — or provide the United States a base from which to do the same. In fact, Hanoi will prefer to look beyond the United States and China for support, bolstering existing partnerships with countries that do not carry the threat of domination, namely India, Russia and members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Ultimately, though, only the United States is capable of maintaining the status quo in the South China Sea and of ensuring Vietnamese territorial integrity.

Caution is reflected in the party leadership's emphasis on internal factional balance, which best serves its desire for geopolitical flexibility — and its mandate to maintain rule in a fractious country. And the party has proved capable of navigating internal competition without breaking apart. A win by the reformist camp is therefore unlikely to bring about purges, as is often the way in single-party states.

Vietnam's curious dynamics limit the potential of an escalation in simmering hostility between Hanoi and Beijing, giving both sides space to defuse relatively common incidents such as last month's sinking of a Vietnamese fishing boat, allegedly by a Chinese military vessel. But there is also the problem of political incoherence and paralysis, making Vietnam somewhat unpredictable in a future crisis and limiting its ability to forge a coherent policy on China in advance. This adds further uncertainty to the increasingly militarized environment in the South China Sea. Hanoi's main impulse today may be caution and consensus, but it is unclear how the party would maintain its internal balance in the face of intense nationalistic pressure — or how Hanoi would keep its options open if a great power conflict ever unfolds just off its shores.


Vietnam: Cautious, but Unpredictable in a Crisis

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> _I think, it´s a well written report from Strator, analyzing the internal debate within the leadership of Vietnam and how the country responses to the actual geopolical challenges. some points are wellknown, written and published in other media. however I notice one major point in the article that was not known before: "Most alarming to China is Vietnam's growing acceptance of the resurgent Japanese navy, with Hanoi agreeing in November 2015 to construct new port facilities ahead of a Japanese port call, foreshadowing long-term cooperation." our japanese friend @Nihonjin1051 may be interested of the news._
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnam: Cautious, but Unpredictable in a Crisis*
> 
> January 12, 2016 | 09:31 GMT
> Stratfor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vietnamese leaders, including Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, President Truong Tan Sang and Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, on Oct. 20, 2015. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)
> _
> 
> *Forecast*
> 
> _Vietnam will continue to integrate with the global economy and pursue security cooperation with Russia, India and its Southeast Asian neighbors._
> _The country's imperatives, aligned with those of the Communist Party, will prevent a wholehearted embrace of the United States._
> _Divisions within the party will limit Vietnam's ties with China, risking indecision during any short, sharp crises in the South China Sea._
> *Analysis*
> 
> The past two decades brought about sweeping changes in Southeast Asia — no country knows this better than Vietnam. Much like China, a strongly centralized Communist Party rules Vietnam, and from Jan. 20 to Jan. 28 the party will gather for its national congress. Held every five years, this Communist assembly will select a new general secretary, Politburo and Central Committee. But rather than being progressive, in many ways, this leadership transition will simply solidify the country's existing strategic configuration.
> 
> The party intent is to publicly display a consensus on Vietnam's path over the next five years. However, the plenum will serve to showcase the enduring rifts that exist between competing factions, divided when it comes to Vietnam's future. One of the main disagreements centers on Hanoi's contentious but indispensable relationship with Beijing. Such divisions have prevented an orderly succession plan from taking shape ahead of the plenum and point to a longer-term breakdown in unity if matters cannot be resolved. Geopolitically speaking, Vietnam's imperatives — coupled with the Communist Party's own internal logic — mean the country will not become dramatically more antagonistic toward China: But neither will it wholeheartedly embrace the United States.
> 
> 
> *Vietnam's Geographic Challenge*
> 
> Hanoi's core strategy is one of balance. Internally, the party needs to achieve harmony among its competing political factions. Externally, it seeks to avoid an overreliance on any single foreign power. This strategic outlook is shaped by Vietnam's history of conflict, not only with Asian countries such as China but with Western powers as well. There are also two distinctly modern factors at play. First, the Vietnamese Communist Party is attempting to maintain its power during a time of rapid economic liberalization and social change, and it fears reopening the historical regional fractures that split the country in the past century. Second, Vietnam is embroiled in a regional dispute with China over the South China Sea. Hanoi's involvement in the maritime quarrel is complicated: It does not want to concede territory, but Vietnam's military is comparatively weaker, and its economy is heavily reliant on Chinese trade and investment. These factors feed into one another — the country's lack of external balance threatens the party's internal equilibrium, risking policy incoherence and paralysis.
> 
> 
> *The East-West Divide*
> 
> After the United States pulled its troops out of Vietnam in 1975, diplomatic relations between the two countries have been inconsistent. With the West out of the picture, Vietnam went on to repeatedly clash with China in the decade following the U.S. withdrawal. Hanoi's forces fought against Chinese Khmer Rouge proxies in Cambodia in 1979, though a direct confrontation did not occur until 1988, when a naval skirmish in the South China Sea ended badly for the Vietnamese. This recent history still colors Hanoi's outlook today. When Soviet aid dried up in the final days of the Cold War, Vietnam recognized the need to integrate with international markets and the importance of attracting foreign investment. Hanoi was divided when it came to accepting its Cold War foes.
> 
> With a U.S. trade embargo in place, normalization with China came first in 1991, empowering the Vietnamese Communist Party's mostly northern conservative blocs, which favored continued hostility toward the West. Despite this, Washington and Hanoi eventually normalized relations in 1995. Beijing's repeated efforts to insert oil rigs into contested waters have given U.S.-Vietnamese relations an unexpected boost.
> 
> However, the country has never been one for unanimity. Today, Vietnam's senior leadership can be roughly divided into three broad camps: pro-West reformists, led by the powerful Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung; pro-China conservatives, led by current Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong; and a relatively moderate wing of improvers led by President Truong Tan Sang. For much of Prime Minister Dung's 10 years in office, the clout of the reformist wing has surged, bolstered by the economic heft of the south. And its emphasis on statecraft over socialist ideology is believed to match the prevailing mood in the party's 175-person Central Committee.
> 
> During Vietnam's 2014 oil rig standoff with China, the charismatic prime minister took a more nationalist stance than many of his counterparts, which appealed to the public. Dung also emerged relatively unscathed following two attempts to remove him from office with a no confidence vote in the Central Committee (engineered by the pro-China camp, first in 2012 and again last January). Dung also gained substantial support from the conservative military elite through his military modernization drive, which led Vietnam to develop one of Southeast Asia's strongest maritime and missile capabilities, thanks to help from Russia. Though the 66-year-old is technically required to retire if he plans to pursue the general secretary post, Dung is expected to seek an exemption similar to the one granted to Trong in 2011. The pro-China camp has no comparably strong candidate.
> 
> 
> *Vietnam's Embrace of the West*
> 
> If Dung or one of his reformist allies takes the top spot at the head of the party, it would further confirm Vietnam's ongoing shift to the West. However, Vietnam's strategic direction over the next five years will not significantly hinge on individuals. For example, the party's draft Political Report and Socio-Economic Plan for 2016-2020 — composed by party reformists and conservatives alike and expected to be ratified at the upcoming congress — makes Western integration a major priority.
> 
> Even under Trong's guidance as general secretary, the Vietnamese Communist Party has signed off on a number of significant measures, including World Trade Organization accession in 2007. Trong himself made a landmark visit to Washington last summer and Hanoi's willingness to stay the course through contentious negotiations over the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership speaks volumes. Vietnam is positioned to benefit greatly from the 12-nation trade pact, but the deal, along with the free trade agreement it signed with the European Union last month, is not without risk for Hanoi. Implementation requires the party to relinquish some degree of control over the country's delicate economic liberalization process.
> 
> This could lead to contentious regulatory overhauls and labor reforms. Some of these measures, in addition to opening Vietnamese industries to global competition, will threaten the direct interests of the country's dominant and largely autonomous state-owned enterprises, whose influence is interwoven with party patronage networks. Yet, Hanoi would not have stuck through the negotiations if it were not relatively united on the overriding imperative to diversify away from Chinese investors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, China's push into the South China Sea has compelled Vietnam to strengthen defense ties with a range of other partners. Most alarming to China is Vietnam's growing acceptance of the resurgent Japanese navy, with Hanoi agreeing in November 2015 to construct new port facilities ahead of a Japanese port call, foreshadowing long-term cooperation. International economic integration, along with greater security cooperation with outside powers such as Japan, India and the United States, will be a core focus for Vietnam's future leaders, regardless of who is in charge.
> 
> 
> *Caution and Consensus*
> 
> Nonetheless, in military matters and in trade, Hanoi will move carefully to keep its strategic options open and avoid an overreliance on any single outside power. Greater economic integration with the rest of the world will not fully offset Vietnam's heavy dependence on the Chinese economy, and the Communist Party will not risk provoking a breakdown in relations with China that disrupts its economic trajectory, thereby fomenting popular discontent.
> 
> Militarily, Vietnam needs outside help. Hanoi will accept assistance, too, but it remains wary of serving as a battleground for great competing powers — lingering memories of the Cold War run deep. In a 2014 speech, Dung himself lambasted U.S. imperialism. Japan and South Korea's recent deal over the treatment of wartime "comfort women" more than 70 years ago highlights how long such issues can remain politically volatile. Regardless of how Hanoi views China's pursuit of its territorial claims, Vietnam will avoid provoking a prolonged military standoff with the Chinese — or provide the United States a base from which to do the same. In fact, Hanoi will prefer to look beyond the United States and China for support, bolstering existing partnerships with countries that do not carry the threat of domination, namely India, Russia and members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Ultimately, though, only the United States is capable of maintaining the status quo in the South China Sea and of ensuring Vietnamese territorial integrity.
> 
> Caution is reflected in the party leadership's emphasis on internal factional balance, which best serves its desire for geopolitical flexibility — and its mandate to maintain rule in a fractious country. And the party has proved capable of navigating internal competition without breaking apart. A win by the reformist camp is therefore unlikely to bring about purges, as is often the way in single-party states.
> 
> Vietnam's curious dynamics limit the potential of an escalation in simmering hostility between Hanoi and Beijing, giving both sides space to defuse relatively common incidents such as last month's sinking of a Vietnamese fishing boat, allegedly by a Chinese military vessel. But there is also the problem of political incoherence and paralysis, making Vietnam somewhat unpredictable in a future crisis and limiting its ability to forge a coherent policy on China in advance. This adds further uncertainty to the increasingly militarized environment in the South China Sea. Hanoi's main impulse today may be caution and consensus, but it is unclear how the party would maintain its internal balance in the face of intense nationalistic pressure — or how Hanoi would keep its options open if a great power conflict ever unfolds just off its shores.
> 
> 
> Vietnam: Cautious, but Unpredictable in a Crisis



Good article. In about one week's time we'll know what faction has the upper hand for the top government positions and the politburo. The picture will become more clear at that point.


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## Viet

some more details of Vietnam first long range drone HS-6L:

it has a high resolution 2.38 million pixels camera on board, rotating 5-axis/5-sensor, auto zooming, capable identifying an object at a distance of 16.6 km, person identification at a distance of 9.7 km, face recognition of a distance of 1.5 km. besides, object distance measurement via laser beams, object details at a distance of 6.4 km.

navigation system Comin D/F

thermal sensor, real time images

no info about max flight altitude, but previous drones can reach altitude of 3,000 m, so we can expect this HS-6L model can reach more.

later models of the drones may be larger, having hard points to carry weapons.

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## Viet

on the way: the 5th Kilo sub recently surpassing South Africa, heading to the Indian Ocean before entering the SC Sea, with final destination: the cam ranh bay.







apropos cam ranh bay, japanese patrol aircraft (P-3C), returning from somalia mission, are expected to land taking fuel before flying home. from the news, new facilities at the bay will be built to accommodate japanese navy and airforce.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam's Plan to Deter China With Western Jets*





Dave Majumdar
January 13, 2016

Vietnam's Plan to Deter China With Western Jets | The National Interest Blog

Vietnam is negotiating with American and European manufacturers to purchase new warplanes—including fighters, maritime patrol aircraft and unmanned aircraft. The move comes as part of Hanoi’s strategy to lessen its dependence on Russian hardware and to counter China’s growing power.

According to Reuter’s Siva Govindasamy, Vietnam has been in talks with contractors who build the Saab JAS-39E/F Gripen NG, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. It’s also taken a hard look at Korea’s F/A-50 lightweight fighter—which was developed in cooperation with Lockheed.

Assuming Hanoi can reach a deal, Vietnam could buy up to a hundred combat aircraft to replace its antiquated fleet of 144 Mikoyan MiG-21 Fishbeds and thirty-eight Sukhoi Su-22 Fitter strike aircraft. The new aircraft would supplement Vietnam’s existing fleet of Russian-made Flanker air superiority fighters. Hanoi operates about a dozen original model Sukhoi Su-27 Flankers and thirty-two more modern Su-30MK2 Flankers with four more on order.

While Washington and Hanoi have been on better terms in recent years, with the U.S. defense secretary visiting the nation as recently as last June, buying an American combat aircraft might still be a bridge too far for Vietnam. The memories of the Vietnam War—which was much more devastating for Vietnam than for the United States—might mean that Hanoi will have reservations about dealing with American contractors. As such, a European warplane might have an edge. Indeed, Vietnam is known to have held fairly advanced discussions to buy the Typhoon, according to Reuters.

But Hanoi needs more than just fighters. Given its maritime disputes with Beijing, Vietnam needs maritime patrol aircraft and surveillance capabilities. The country has been talking to the Swedes about maritime patrol and airborne early warning variants of the Saab 340 or 2000 twin-engine turboprops, according to Reuters.

Vietnam has also discussed purchasing a maritime patrol version of the Airbus C-295, Lockheed’s Sea Hercules variant of the C-130 transport and a Boeing offering of a business jet fitted with much of the surveillance suite from the P-8 Poseidon. The Boeing offering would not include anti-submarine warfare capabilities however.

Hanoi is also looking for unmanned surveillance aircraft to help patrol its vast shoreline. However, no details are available on exactly what aircraft the country wants to buy. But as tensions with China look to continue unabated, Hanoi is almost certain to explore is options and, in doing so, start moving closer to Washington.

_Dave Majumdar is the defense editor for the _National Interest_. You can follow him on Twitter: @davemajumdar._

_Image: Wikimedia Commons/Tim Felce (Airwolfhound). _

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## Viet

Carlosa, what is the best choice of fighter jet for the airforce, what do you think? And how many pieces are necessary?

I like the Saab Gripen NG. Typhoon is expensive and not multi role capable. But anyway, If we decide for any warplane, for a large number as the article suggests aka 100 aircraft or so, we should negotiate to build the aircraft at home or at least building up a domestic supporting aircraft industry.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, what is the best choice of fighter jet for the airforce, what do you think? And how many pieces are necessary?
> 
> I like the Saab Gripen NG. Typhoon is expensive and not multi role capable. But anyway, If we decide for any warplane, for a large number as the article suggests aka 100 aircraft or so, we should negotiate to build the aircraft at home or at least building up a domestic supporting aircraft industry.



In my opinion the best fighter to replace the Mig-21 is the Mig-35 and that's the cheapest option also. Its a really good fighter, AESA radar, 3D vector control for the engine, etc. Its basically the upgrade of the Mig-29 and they fixed all the problems. Vietnam is probably waiting for that aircraft to be inducted first into the Russian air force and in the meantime they could be negotiating for western aircraft as a second option or as a negotiation tactic to put pressure on the Russians.

There are rumors that Vietnam will buy the naval version of the Mig-29 just for the navy and that would be the start of a naval aviation wing with fighter jets.

As western aircraft goes, there are no easy options, they are all expensive, even the Gripen.

One possibility is that Vietnam could buy the Typhoon at a special deal because the original buyers are scaling down their purchases, including Germany or Vietnam may also be able to buy them second hand for the same reason.

The strange thing about buying the Typhoon is that it is an air superiority fighter and Vietnam has the Sukhoi fighters for the same role including the upcoming SU-30SM so that would be a bit of a duplication. I've heard a lot of bad press about the Typhoon (and you too), many issues, so I'm not sure that's a good choice.

The typhoon will be multi role capable soon, the are finishing the development work for that.

The good thing about European aircraft is that they would come with the Meteor and Iris-T air to air missiles and they would blast any chinese fighters out the sky in no time.

Second hand F-16's would also be a cheap option as Indonesia did, but there are political issues there.

Forget about domestic manufacturing, Vietnam is not ready for that at the moment. Support industry maybe ok.

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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> can´t find the number. here is the full article on the website of the Vietnam Coast Guard. I could make a brief translation later.
> 
> Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam
> 
> * Phát triển, hiện đại hóa trang bị cho Cảnh sát biển, đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ trong tình hình mới *
> 
> 17:12 | 09/11/2015
> (Canhsatbien.vn) - Là một trong những lực lượng được xác định xây dựng tiến thẳng lên hiện đại, Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam đã, đang và sẽ tiếp tục được đầu tư để phát triển toàn diện, đặc biệt là về phương tiện, vũ khí trang bị kỹ thuật nhằm tăng cường khả năng hoạt động xa bờ, đáp ứng yêu cầu quản lý vùng biển nhanh chóng, chính xác, hiệu quả trong tình hình mới.
> 
> Colonel Nguyen Van Hung
> 
> Thực hiện Nghị quyết Đại hội Đảng bộ Quân đội lần thứ IX về xây dựng Quân đội từng bước tiến lên hiện đại, trong đó có một số lực lượng tiến thẳng lên hiện đại, những năm vừa qua, cùng với một số lực lượng khác trong Quân đội, Cảnh sát biển đã được Đảng, Nhà nước, Quân ủy Trung ương, BQP quan tâm, đầu tư mua sắm, đưa vào biên chế nhiều phương tiện tàu thuyền, máy bay, xe, máy, vũ khí trang bị kỹ thuật (VKTBKT) mới, hiện đại, có giá trị lớn. Hiện, toàn lực lượng đã có trên 70 tàu xuồng các loại, 03 máy bay tuần thám, hơn 100 xe ô tô cùng VKTBKT và các trang thiết bị phục vụ chuyên ngành trinh sát, phòng chống tội phạm ma túy khác. Đặc biệt, gần đây được trang bị thêm một số tàu hiện đại, có lượng giãn nước lớn, đủ sức hoạt động ở các vùng biển xa như tàu DN-2000, tàu TK-3500CV,…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thủ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng, BTL Cảnh sát biển tham quan hệ thống điều khiển hiện đại tadu CSB 8002._ (ảnh: Liên Nhâm)_
> 
> Tuy nhiên, xuất phát từ chức năng, nhiệm vụ của Lực lượng CSB: Là nòng cốt trong bảo vệ chủ quyền, thực thi pháp luật, TKCN trên tất cả các vùng biển, thềm lục địa của Tổ quốc; Xuất phát từ diễn biến ngày càng phức tạp trên biển, đặt ra yêu cầu, nhiệm vụ ngày càng nặng nề hơn, đa dạng hơn cho Lực lượng CSB.
> 
> Mặc dù đã được đầu tư phát triển mạnh mẽ trong thời gian vừa qua, song số lượng tàu thuyền, xe - máy, VKTBKT của Lực lượng CSB hiện nay vẫn chưa đủ để đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ. Tình hình trên biển lại luôn diễn biến phức tạp cả về vấn đề an ninh truyền thống và an ninh phi truyền thống với những nguyên nhân khác nhau. Từ thực tiễn thực hiện nhiệm vụ trên biển và đấu tranh bảo vệ chủ quyền trên vùng biển Hoàng Sa của Việt Nam năm 2014 cho thấy, Lực lượng CSB VN rất cần thiết phải có nhiều tàu lớn có sức cơ động cao với trang bị vũ khí, hệ thống tiếp nhận và xử lý thông tin tiên tiến, hiện đại, có tích hợp điện tử và tự động hóa cao.
> 
> Cùng với đó, năm 2014, Thủ tướng Chính phủ đã phê duyệt Đề án xây dựng Lực lượng CSB VN đến năm 2020 và những năm tiếp theo với mục tiêu: “Xây dựng Lực lượng CSB hiện đại chuyên nghiệp, tổ chức biên chế hợp lý, tinh gọn, trang bị đồng bộ đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ bảo vệ chủ quyền, thực thi pháp luật trên biển và hợp tác quốc tế; làm cơ sở để xây dựng hoàn chỉnh Lực lượng CSB VN trong những năm tiếp theo”. Nghị quyết Đại hội Đảng bộ Quân đội lần thứ X, nhiệm kỳ 2015-2020 cũng đã xác định chủ trương xây dựng Lực lượng Cảnh sát biển tiến thẳng lên hiện đại nhằm đáp ứng yêu cầu quản lý, bảo vệ vùng biển trong tình hình mới.
> 
> Mặt khác, hiện nay chúng ta đang thực hiện chủ trương xây dựng các Lực lượng Hải quân, Phòng không - không quân, Thông tin, Tác chiến điện tử tiến thẳng lên hiện đại. Đây là các lực lượng mà khi có tình huống cao thì Lực lượng CSB hoặc phải phối thuộc, hoặc phải phối hợp hiệp đồng. Do vậy, nếu CSB không hiện đại thì khả năng hiệp đồng sẽ không đảm bảo được tính đồng bộ và hiệu quả; Sự chuyển hóa từ nhiệm vụ thực thi pháp luật trong thời bình sang nhiệm vụ tác chiến trong thời chiến sẽ không đảm bảo được tính kịp thời, nhanh chóng và chính xác.
> 
> Từ những yêu cầu thực tiễn trên cho thấy sự cần thiết phải nhanh chóng hiện đại hóa Lực lượng CSB, trong đó hiện đại hóa trang bị là nội dung cơ bản. Chỉ có hiện đại hóa trang bị, phương tiện mới có đủ khả năng vươn khơi xa và dài ngày để thực hiện tốt chức năng, nhiệm vụ được giao.
> 
> *Phương hướng hiện đại hóa trang bị cho Lực lượng CSB VN*
> 
> Để xây dựng Lực lượng CSB tiến thẳng lên hiện đại trong tình hình hiện nay, Đảng ủy, Thủ trưởng Bộ Tư lệnh cũng như Thủ trưởng Cục Kỹ thuật nhận thức rõ: hiện đại phải quán triệt tinh thần 3 khâu đột phá, đó là: đột phá hiện đại về mặt tổ chức, tinh gọn và cân đối; đột phá hiện đại về mặt con người: làm chủ được trang bị hiện đại; hiện đại để phòng thủ, bảo vệ Tổ quốc và kịp thời xử lý hiệu quả các tình huống chứ không để phô trương hay chạy đua vũ trang. Khi hiện đại hóa trang bị phải coi trọng việc đồng bộ theo chủng loại giữa các lực lượng được hiện đại; nhất là các trang bị liên quan đến thông tin, trinh sát, chỉ thị mục tiêu, sử dụng trong chiến thuật tác chiến… có như vậy mới phát huy được hiệu quả của trang bị hiện đại và sức mạnh của VKTBKT trong hiệp đồng tác chiến quân binh chủng; bảo đảm khoa học và tiết kiệm.
> 
> Hiện đại hóa trang bị phải được tiến hành song song với xây dựng ngành Kỹ thuật chính quy; phát huy tính tích cực chủ động, sáng tạo, tự lực, tự cường, làm chủ VKTBKT và công nghệ. Ngoài việc giữ gìn, bảo quản, cải tiến có chọn lọc phương tiện, VKTBKT hiện có, cần thiết phải đầu tư đóng mới, mua sắm tàu thuyền, VKTBKT hiện đại, đó là:
> 
> - Tăng cường đóng mới tàu thuyền có lượng giãn nước lớn, có hàm lượng công nghệ và sức cơ động cao, có khả năng hoạt động dài ngày trên biển trong điều kiện thời tiết phức tạp và trước nguy cơ thường xuyên bị đâm húc của các tàu lớn nước ngoài khi đấu tranh bảo vệ chủ quyền); tính chất hoạt động đa năng (vừa tuần tra kiểm soát vừa có thể tham gia TKCN, bảo vệ môi trường biển…); có sàn đỗ máy bay,...
> 
> - Vũ khí, trang thiết bị: từ hệ thống động lực, thiết bị điều khiển, trang thiết bị khí tài điện tử, vũ khí đến các thiết bị thông tin, ghi hình, truyền dữ liệu… đưa vào lắp đặt trên tàu phải hiện đại, đồng thời đáp ứng các yêu cầu gọn nhẹ, khả năng cơ động cao, trình độ tự động và độ chính xác cao, chuyển hóa linh hoạt trong tác chiến, có uy lực lớn, có nhiều hàm lượng KH-CN, bảo đảm hoạt động trong mọi điều kiện.
> 
> - Bảo đảm các hoạt động chỉ huy, chỉ đạo, tác chiến, trinh sát được thống nhất, đồng bộ, nhanh chóng, liên tục, bí mật, an toàn, ổn định, vững chắc trong mọi tình huống. Bảo đảm hoạt động đồng bộ bờ - tàu, tàu - tàu, tàu - máy bay, làm cơ sở để chỉ đạo từ Sở chỉ huy đến các lực lượng; bảo đảm công tác phối hợp hiệp đồng giữa các đơn vị hiệp đồng, các phương tiện xe - máy và đảm bảo việc thu thập dữ liệu làm bằng chứng trong đấu tranh chống vi phạm tội phạm trên biển cũng như đấu tranh pháp lý, chính trị, ngoại giao để bảo vệ chủ quyền biển đảo.
> 
> - Đầu tư mua sắm trang thiết bị hiện đại phục vụ cho các hoạt động nghiệp vụ CSB (trinh sát, phòng chống tội phạm, vi phạm), các thiết bị phân tích, đánh giá chất lượng hàng hóa để bảo đảm cho hoạt động nghiệp vụ hiệu quả và phục vụ công tác điều tra, chống buôn lậu.
> 
> Theo Đề án Xây dựng Lực lượng CSB VN đã được Thủ tướng Chính phủ phê duyệt năm 2014, từ nay đến năm 2020, Lực lượng CSB sẽ được đầu tư đóng mới thêm hàng chục tàu thuyền các loại, trong đó có tàu DN-4000, DN-2000, TT-1500, TT-400, tàu dầu 1000 tấn, tàu tìm kiếm cứu nạn xa bờ (tàu SAR)…Về mua sắm trang bị, sắp tới tiếp tục mua thêm máy bay CASA-212, máy bay trực thăng cùng nhiều trang thiết bị chuyên ngành khác của các khối Tham mưu, Chính trị, Hậu cần, Kỹ thuật, Nghiệp vụ, Quan hệ quốc tế…
> 
> Với số lượng phương tiện, tàu thuyền, máy bay, VKTBKT hiện đại được đầu tư, mua sắm, trang bị theo đúng yêu cầu chỉ tiêu, tiến độ của Đề án sẽ đảm bảo cho Lực lượng CSB hoàn thành tốt hơn nữa nhiệm vụ được giao, nâng cao hiệu quả quản lý vùng biển thuộc chủ quyền của đất nước.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hạ thủy tàu CSB 9004. _(ảnh: Anh Tuấn)_
> 
> *Một số nội dung cần thiết để thực hiện hiện đại hóa Lực lượng CSB*
> 
> Trên cơ sở phát triển, hiện đại hóa về phương tiện trang bị cho CSB theo Đề án Xây dựng LL CSB VN đến năm 2020 và những năm tiếp theo, để có được những bước đi vững chắc nhằm hiện đại hóa lực lượng cả về con người và trang bị, cần song song triển khai thực hiện một số nội dung, yêu cầu sau:
> 
> _*Một là,*_ làm tốt công tác quy hoạch trang bị, đóng mới, mua sắm tàu thuyền, máy bay, VKTBKT hiện đại. Lựa chọn đối tác đóng tàu đủ năng lực cung cấp các trang thiết bị hiện đại, phù hợp, đáp ứng yêu cầu đóng tàu về cả chất lượng, tiến độ. Song song với việc lựa chọn các trang bị kỹ thuật hiện đại là chuyển giao công nghệ để nâng cao khả năng làm chủ (sửa chữa, khôi phục, cải tiến, cải hoán,...) VKTBKT.
> 
> _*Hai là,*_ quan tâm xây dựng nguồn nhân lực, con người hiện đại: có đủ bản lĩnh; đủ năng lực chỉ huy, chỉ đạo và trình độ chuyên môn nghiệp vụ vững vàng để quản lý, khai thác, làm chủ các loại VKTBKT hiện đại, đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ trong mọi tình huống. Quan tâm đến công tác tuyển chọn đội ngũ cán bộ, nhân viên kỹ thuật: có đủ số lượng, đủ cơ cấu ngành nghề. Quan tâm đến công tác đào tạo, huấn luyện, bồi dưỡng đội ngũ cán bộ, nhân viên kỹ thuật: Cả trình độ chỉ huy, quản lý, trình độ chuyên môn nghiệp vụ; tăng cường đột phá vào công tác huấn luyện, chuyển giao công nghệ từ khi triển khai đóng mới tàu hay tiếp nhận trang bị mới; trong đó trọng tâm là đội ngũ cán bộ, nhân viên trực tiếp khai thác, sử dụng VKTBKT; tăng cường các hội thi, hội thao thực sự có chất lượng, hiệu quả, nhằm thúc đẩy phong trào huấn luyện tại đơn vị, phấn đấu làm chủ VKTBKT trong cả tình huống khó khăn phức tạp nhất.
> 
> _*Ba là,*_ đầu tư xây dựng cơ sở bảo đảm kỹ thuật hiện đại và tạo nguồn vật tư dự trữ đầy đủ. Đầu tư xây dựng các trạm sửa chữa tổng hợp hiện đại tại các BTL Vùng CSB và các Hải đội đóng quân độc lập (có đủ trang thiết bị công nghệ, quy trình công nghệ, chuyên gia kỹ thuật, vật tư phụ tùng dự phòng thay thế) nhằm nâng cao năng lực tự bảo đảm cho các đơn vị, đáp ứng yêu cầu bảo quản, bảo dưỡng và sửa chữa cấp hàng hải. Xây dựng kho kỹ thuật tại cơ quan, đơn vị có khả năng cất chứa đa dạng chủng loại vật tư, số lượng lớn, bảo đảm kịp thời. Tạo nguồn vật tư kỹ thuật; ZIP dự trữ tàu, bờ bảo đảm cho thực hiện nhiệm vụ thường xuyên và các tình huống cao, đột xuất, đòi hỏi lượng vật tư thay thế lớn. Trong đó có cả lượng vật tư dự trữ quốc gia, vật tư dự trữ cấp chiến lược (của BTL CSB bố trí tại các đơn vị) và vật tư dự trữ thường xuyên.
> 
> _*Bốn là,*_ đẩy mạnh hoạt động khoa học công nghệ, các đề tài nghiên cứu, sáng kiến cải tiến kỹ thuật sâu rộng trong toàn lực lượng, tạo ra nhiều sản phẩm thiết thực, ứng dụng có hiệu quả trong công tác bảo đảm kỹ thuật và ứng dụng mạnh mẽ CNTT trong công tác quản lý, chỉ đạo, điều hành các hoạt động CTKT.
> 
> _*Năm là,*_ thực hiện mạnh mẽ, có chiều sâu về “Xây dựng nền nếp chính quy kỹ thuật và làm chủ VKTBKT”.
> 
> _*Sáu là,*_ phát huy nội lực, đồng thời tăng cường các mối quan hệ tạo cơ chế phối hợp, hiệp đồng với các lực lượng có liên quan, các nhà máy, xí nghiệp sửa chữa, các hãng cung cấp thiết bị để kịp thời bảo đảm vật tư kỹ thuật, sửa chữa VKTBKT trong thời gian ngắn nhất, hiệu quả nhất, bảo đảm phương tiện tàu thuyền luôn sẵn sàng thực hiện nhiệm vụ trong mọi tình huống.
> 
> _*Bảy là,*_ tăng cường công tác dự báo tình huống nhằm nâng cao khả năng xử lý, xử trí các tình huống, đồng thời đảm bảo công tác chuẩn bị mọi mặt đầy đủ (về tạo nguồn vật tư dự trữ, phương thức bảo đảm,... ) để không bị động bất ngờ, không gián đoạn công tác bảo đảm trong bất kỳ tình huống nào.
> 
> _*Tóm lại,*_ để đáp ứng yêu cầu nhiệm vụ trong tình hình mới, thì việc hiện đại hóa phương tiện, trang bị cho Cảnh sát biển là đòi hỏi khách quan và tất yếu. Hiện đại hóa phương tiện, trang bị không chỉ đầu tư phát triển trang bị hiện đại mà cùng với đó là đầu tư phát triển nguồn lực con người, cơ sở vật chất bảo đảm và cơ chế hoạt động phù hợp mới đáp ứng được yêu cầu khai thác, làm chủ VKTBKT, góp phần hoàn thành chức năng, nhiệm vụ được giao trong mọi tình huống.




Translation , please? Thanks.



Viet said:


> I think, it´s a well written report from Stratfor, analyzing the internal debate within the leadership of Vietnam and how the country responses to the actual geopolical challenges. some points are wellknown, written and published in other media. however I notice one major point in the article that was not known before: "Most alarming to China is Vietnam's growing acceptance of the resurgent Japanese navy, with Hanoi agreeing in November 2015 to construct new port facilities ahead of a Japanese port call, foreshadowing long-term cooperation." our japanese friend @Nihonjin1051 may be interested of the news.
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnam: Cautious, but Unpredictable in a Crisis*
> 
> January 12, 2016 | 09:31 GMT
> Stratfor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vietnamese leaders, including Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, President Truong Tan Sang and Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, on Oct. 20, 2015. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)
> _
> 
> *Forecast*
> 
> _Vietnam will continue to integrate with the global economy and pursue security cooperation with Russia, India and its Southeast Asian neighbors._
> _The country's imperatives, aligned with those of the Communist Party, will prevent a wholehearted embrace of the United States._
> _Divisions within the party will limit Vietnam's ties with China, risking indecision during any short, sharp crises in the South China Sea._
> *Analysis*
> 
> The past two decades brought about sweeping changes in Southeast Asia — no country knows this better than Vietnam. Much like China, a strongly centralized Communist Party rules Vietnam, and from Jan. 20 to Jan. 28 the party will gather for its national congress. Held every five years, this Communist assembly will select a new general secretary, Politburo and Central Committee. But rather than being progressive, in many ways, this leadership transition will simply solidify the country's existing strategic configuration.
> 
> The party intent is to publicly display a consensus on Vietnam's path over the next five years. However, the plenum will serve to showcase the enduring rifts that exist between competing factions, divided when it comes to Vietnam's future. One of the main disagreements centers on Hanoi's contentious but indispensable relationship with Beijing. Such divisions have prevented an orderly succession plan from taking shape ahead of the plenum and point to a longer-term breakdown in unity if matters cannot be resolved. Geopolitically speaking, Vietnam's imperatives — coupled with the Communist Party's own internal logic — mean the country will not become dramatically more antagonistic toward China: But neither will it wholeheartedly embrace the United States.
> 
> 
> *Vietnam's Geographic Challenge*
> 
> Hanoi's core strategy is one of balance. Internally, the party needs to achieve harmony among its competing political factions. Externally, it seeks to avoid an overreliance on any single foreign power. This strategic outlook is shaped by Vietnam's history of conflict, not only with Asian countries such as China but with Western powers as well. There are also two distinctly modern factors at play. First, the Vietnamese Communist Party is attempting to maintain its power during a time of rapid economic liberalization and social change, and it fears reopening the historical regional fractures that split the country in the past century. Second, Vietnam is embroiled in a regional dispute with China over the South China Sea. Hanoi's involvement in the maritime quarrel is complicated: It does not want to concede territory, but Vietnam's military is comparatively weaker, and its economy is heavily reliant on Chinese trade and investment. These factors feed into one another — the country's lack of external balance threatens the party's internal equilibrium, risking policy incoherence and paralysis.
> 
> 
> *The East-West Divide*
> 
> After the United States pulled its troops out of Vietnam in 1975, diplomatic relations between the two countries have been inconsistent. With the West out of the picture, Vietnam went on to repeatedly clash with China in the decade following the U.S. withdrawal. Hanoi's forces fought against Chinese Khmer Rouge proxies in Cambodia in 1979, though a direct confrontation did not occur until 1988, when a naval skirmish in the South China Sea ended badly for the Vietnamese. This recent history still colors Hanoi's outlook today. When Soviet aid dried up in the final days of the Cold War, Vietnam recognized the need to integrate with international markets and the importance of attracting foreign investment. Hanoi was divided when it came to accepting its Cold War foes.
> 
> With a U.S. trade embargo in place, normalization with China came first in 1991, empowering the Vietnamese Communist Party's mostly northern conservative blocs, which favored continued hostility toward the West. Despite this, Washington and Hanoi eventually normalized relations in 1995. Beijing's repeated efforts to insert oil rigs into contested waters have given U.S.-Vietnamese relations an unexpected boost.
> 
> However, the country has never been one for unanimity. Today, Vietnam's senior leadership can be roughly divided into three broad camps: pro-West reformists, led by the powerful Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung; pro-China conservatives, led by current Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong; and a relatively moderate wing of improvers led by President Truong Tan Sang. For much of Prime Minister Dung's 10 years in office, the clout of the reformist wing has surged, bolstered by the economic heft of the south. And its emphasis on statecraft over socialist ideology is believed to match the prevailing mood in the party's 175-person Central Committee.
> 
> During Vietnam's 2014 oil rig standoff with China, the charismatic prime minister took a more nationalist stance than many of his counterparts, which appealed to the public. Dung also emerged relatively unscathed following two attempts to remove him from office with a no confidence vote in the Central Committee (engineered by the pro-China camp, first in 2012 and again last January). Dung also gained substantial support from the conservative military elite through his military modernization drive, which led Vietnam to develop one of Southeast Asia's strongest maritime and missile capabilities, thanks to help from Russia. Though the 66-year-old is technically required to retire if he plans to pursue the general secretary post, Dung is expected to seek an exemption similar to the one granted to Trong in 2011. The pro-China camp has no comparably strong candidate.
> 
> 
> *Vietnam's Embrace of the West*
> 
> If Dung or one of his reformist allies takes the top spot at the head of the party, it would further confirm Vietnam's ongoing shift to the West. However, Vietnam's strategic direction over the next five years will not significantly hinge on individuals. For example, the party's draft Political Report and Socio-Economic Plan for 2016-2020 — composed by party reformists and conservatives alike and expected to be ratified at the upcoming congress — makes Western integration a major priority.
> 
> Even under Trong's guidance as general secretary, the Vietnamese Communist Party has signed off on a number of significant measures, including World Trade Organization accession in 2007. Trong himself made a landmark visit to Washington last summer and Hanoi's willingness to stay the course through contentious negotiations over the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership speaks volumes. Vietnam is positioned to benefit greatly from the 12-nation trade pact, but the deal, along with the free trade agreement it signed with the European Union last month, is not without risk for Hanoi. Implementation requires the party to relinquish some degree of control over the country's delicate economic liberalization process.
> 
> This could lead to contentious regulatory overhauls and labor reforms. Some of these measures, in addition to opening Vietnamese industries to global competition, will threaten the direct interests of the country's dominant and largely autonomous state-owned enterprises, whose influence is interwoven with party patronage networks. Yet, Hanoi would not have stuck through the negotiations if it were not relatively united on the overriding imperative to diversify away from Chinese investors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, China's push into the South China Sea has compelled Vietnam to strengthen defense ties with a range of other partners. Most alarming to China is Vietnam's growing acceptance of the resurgent Japanese navy, with Hanoi agreeing in November 2015 to construct new port facilities ahead of a Japanese port call, foreshadowing long-term cooperation. International economic integration, along with greater security cooperation with outside powers such as Japan, India and the United States, will be a core focus for Vietnam's future leaders, regardless of who is in charge.
> 
> 
> *Caution and Consensus*
> 
> Nonetheless, in military matters and in trade, Hanoi will move carefully to keep its strategic options open and avoid an overreliance on any single outside power. Greater economic integration with the rest of the world will not fully offset Vietnam's heavy dependence on the Chinese economy, and the Communist Party will not risk provoking a breakdown in relations with China that disrupts its economic trajectory, thereby fomenting popular discontent.
> 
> Militarily, Vietnam needs outside help. Hanoi will accept assistance, too, but it remains wary of serving as a battleground for great competing powers — lingering memories of the Cold War run deep. In a 2014 speech, Dung himself lambasted U.S. imperialism. Japan and South Korea's recent deal over the treatment of wartime "comfort women" more than 70 years ago highlights how long such issues can remain politically volatile. Regardless of how Hanoi views China's pursuit of its territorial claims, Vietnam will avoid provoking a prolonged military standoff with the Chinese — or provide the United States a base from which to do the same. In fact, Hanoi will prefer to look beyond the United States and China for support, bolstering existing partnerships with countries that do not carry the threat of domination, namely India, Russia and members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Ultimately, though, only the United States is capable of maintaining the status quo in the South China Sea and of ensuring Vietnamese territorial integrity.
> 
> Caution is reflected in the party leadership's emphasis on internal factional balance, which best serves its desire for geopolitical flexibility — and its mandate to maintain rule in a fractious country. And the party has proved capable of navigating internal competition without breaking apart. A win by the reformist camp is therefore unlikely to bring about purges, as is often the way in single-party states.
> 
> Vietnam's curious dynamics limit the potential of an escalation in simmering hostility between Hanoi and Beijing, giving both sides space to defuse relatively common incidents such as last month's sinking of a Vietnamese fishing boat, allegedly by a Chinese military vessel. But there is also the problem of political incoherence and paralysis, making Vietnam somewhat unpredictable in a future crisis and limiting its ability to forge a coherent policy on China in advance. This adds further uncertainty to the increasingly militarized environment in the South China Sea. Hanoi's main impulse today may be caution and consensus, but it is unclear how the party would maintain its internal balance in the face of intense nationalistic pressure — or how Hanoi would keep its options open if a great power conflict ever unfolds just off its shores.
> 
> 
> Vietnam: Cautious, but Unpredictable in a Crisis


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## Aqsuperman

Some visitors and visiting countries , hope something will come from these meeting


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## Viet

The search for Vietnam's war dead: Largest ever DNA identification project is underway to name those who perished 40 years ago

Half a million Vietnamese people killed in the war remain unidentified
DNA experts will be trained to identify remains using latest genetic tests
Government is investing 500 billion dong ($25 million) in the vast project
By Sarah Griffiths for MailOnline
Published: 13:29 GMT, 14 January 2016 | Updated: 16:30 GMT, 14 January 2016
 
Over forty years after the end of the Vietnam War, the remains of nameless civilians and fighters are still being unearthed.

Now efforts have begun to identify the bones of half a million Vietnamese people who went missing during the conflict between 1955 and 1975.

Experts are using DNA technologies to test the remains found around the country in the largest identification effort ever attempted.

Scroll down for video





Efforts have begun to identify the bones of half a million Vietnamese people who went missing during the Vietnam war between 1955 and 1975. This harrowing file image shows a fallen fighter in 1972

Vietnam veteran and genomics pioneer Craig Venter told Nature: 'When I was a 21-year-old in the medical corps there, I never imagined that such a project could ever become possible.

'We thought of body counts as statistics — now, decades later, it may be possible to put names to them.'

Vietnam has only been able to identify a few hundred of its war dead so far using old technologies, leaving thousands of families still desperate to give their long-lost relatives a proper funeral.

In 2014, the Vietnamese government promised to invest 500 billion dong ($25 million or £17 million) in upgrading three existing DNA testing centres so they would be up to the morbid task.

And last month it signed a training contract with Hamburg-based medical diagnostics firm Bioglobe to get Vietnamese DNA experts up to speed with the new technology.

In 2014, the Vietnamese government promised to invest 500 billion dong ($25 million) in upgrading three existing DNA testing centres so they would be up to the task of identifying remains. This image of children fleeing their homes in the village of Trang Bang in the wake of a napalm bomb went on to define the conflict

* HOW WILL THE REMAINS BE MATCHED TO LIVING RELATIVES? *

Experts will use kits made by German-based company called Qiagen, which are designed to reveal as much DNA as possible from tricky sources such as old bones.

They will powder bone samples and lock them in sealed cartridges containing chemicals that clean them, before chemically breaking down cells to extract DNA.

Another kit will then check multiple copies of a sequence of DNA against a larger-than-normal set of genomic markers to make a DNA profile and point out any substances stopping the process.

If these substances prove stubborn, the samples will be analysed by had using processes developed by the International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP).

Finished genetic profiles will be checked against the database of the modern population to try and find living relatives of the dead.

Bioglobe's CEO, Wolfgang Höppner, has said the project still faces considerable challenges.

These include the country's humid conditions, which can degrade the DNA of bodies that were buried in shallow graves decades ago.

The sheer numbers of bones involved is also a hurdle to overcome, meaning a systematic approach is vital, as well as the production of a vast bank of DNA collected from the current population.

An outreach programme is planned to collect saliva samples from volunteers, but since the war was decades ago, samples may have to come from distant relatives whose DNA is less similar, making the task more difficult.

Experts will use kits made by another German-based company called Qiagen, which are designed to reveal as much DNA as possible from tricky sources such as old bones.

They will use these to extract DNA from powdered bone samples before comparing multiple sequences against a set of genomic markers.

This will produce a unique DNA profile. The team will also use techniques developed by the International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP).






Vietnam has only been able to identify a few hundred of its war dead so far using old methods, with families still desperate to give their long-lost relatives a proper funeral. In contrast, the US has managed to identify most of its war dead. A file image showing Marines boarding a helicopter after an 11 day battle is shown






Experts will use kits made by another German-based company called Qiagen, which are designed to reveal as much DNA as possible from tricky sources such as old bones. A stock image of DNA sequencing is shown

Finished genetic profiles will be checked against the database of the modern population to try and find living relatives of the dead.

The Sarajevo-based ICMP helped to identify nearly all the people who were killed in the Srebrenica massacre of 1995 as well as others slain during the conflict.

They will now help to train Vietnamese scientists taking on the new momentous identification project.

It will rely on people to come forward with knowledge about where bodies may be buried, as well as military intelligence, unlike in Bosnia where satellite imagery could be used to find mass graves.

Truong Nam Hai, head of the Institute of Biotechnology at the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology – the site of the first upgraded lab – hopes that by next year when the labs are up and running, the remains of between 8,000 and 10,000 people will be able to be identified per year.

The project will rely on people to come forward with knowledge about where massacres may have taken place and bodies buried, as well as military intelligence. This saddening file image shows a family walking along Highway 1 as part of the 'convoy of tears' leaving the country's central highlands


Read more: Vietnam’s war dead to be identified with a DNA project | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Viet

graduated from Nha Trang pilot school, 2011-2015, new pilots for the airforce


























during their training, they were flying on L-39 jet for 235 hours on average, with an intensive training in Russia, the new pilots can surely fly Mig-35. I admire the russians. they know how to build powerful jets.


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## yugocrosrb95

Carlosa said:


> In my opinion the best fighter to replace the Mig-21 is the Mig-35 and that's the cheapest option also. Its a really good fighter, AESA radar, 3D vector control for the engine, etc. Its basically the upgrade of the Mig-29 and they fixed all the problems. Vietnam is probably waiting for that aircraft to be inducted first into the Russian air force and in the meantime they could be negotiating for western aircraft as a second option or as a negotiation tactic to put pressure on the Russians.



Mig-35 is the cheapest option in short-term due to initial cost of purchase.



> As western aircraft goes, there are no easy options, they are all expensive, even the Gripen.



Even the Gripen? Oh please, Mig-35 will cost you more in the long run than Gripen.since Gripen's airframe lifespan is 8000 hours compared to Mig-35's 5000-6000 hours which also consumes twice as much fuel while Mig-35's engine lasts 4000 hours compared to Gripen's 2200 hours, Mig-35 has two engines that need to be replaced compared to Gripen's single engine.

Maintaining two engines is considerably more expensive.



> One possibility is that Vietnam could buy the Typhoon at a special deal because the original buyers are scaling down their purchases, including Germany or Vietnam may also be able to buy them second hand for the same reason.



If Vietnam can afford Typhoon in latest Tranche 3 and latest aerodynamical modification from Airbus then Vietnam will be a force to reckon with in the air in SEA airspace.



> The strange thing about buying the Typhoon is that it is an air superiority fighter and Vietnam has the Sukhoi fighters for the same role including the upcoming SU-30SM so that would be a bit of a duplication. I've heard a lot of bad press about the Typhoon (and you too), many issues, so I'm not sure that's a good choice.



China already has SU-30's and Vietnam does not have fighter higher than SU-30 while China does, if Vietnam has an option to buy and can afford it then they should buy it if they can because it would be a game changer in SEA and Chinese would think twice before making a move.

Yea, we heard a lot lies about Typhoon as press tried to spin it into an F-22 despite reality being the opposite, every fighter has issues that are fixed sooner or later block by block, tranche by tranche.



> The good thing about European aircraft is that they would come with the Meteor and Iris-T air to air missiles and they would blast any chinese fighters out the sky in no time.



Meteor has NEZ of 75 kilometers, best chinese likely like americans at best, 50 kilometers...



> Forget about domestic manufacturing, Vietnam is not ready for that at the moment. Support industry maybe ok.



Vietnam could look to buy documents for G-4 Super Galeb from Serbia...


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam produces fireproof, bulletproof paint from rice husks*

_12.01.2016

VietNamNet Bridge - A local company has successfully produced fireproof, bulletproof paint made from rice husks, with the price one third of foreign products of the same kind._


_



_


_Test of Kova fireproof paint._

_




At right is the wood covered with fireproof paint of Vietnam, which is burnt over one hour without being harmed. The left is wood covered with German fireproof paint, which burned after 22 minutes. Photo: Zen Nguyen
_

Vietnamese paint company Kova this May launched its nano fireproof and bulletproof paint made from husks. The new products have attracted attention of local and foreign scientists and enterprises.

Husk is an agricultural by-product, often used as fuel, to make fertilizer. Dr. Nguyen Thi Hoe, Chairwoman of the Kova Paint Group, has used this by-product to produce special product – fireproof and bulletproof paint.

Hoe said the fireproof paint is active in the temperatures of 800-1,200oC and it does not create toxic gas. Tests prove that the quality of this product is even better than similar products of Singapore and Germany.

Notably, this product can work 360 minutes, exceeding the highest level of Vietnamese standards for fireproof products.





_ Kova bulletproof paint is praised by experts as it helps reduce the weight of bulletproof vests from 60% to 70%._

According to Hoe, 12 tons of rice husk can be burned to have 1 ton of ash, which is processed by hi-tech to create nano paint. 1kg of nano paint can cover 1.5 m2 of surface.

Meanwhile, bulletproof paint is praised by experts as it helps reduce the weight of bulletproof vests from 60% to 70%.

Besides nano bulletproof paint, Kova has also launched a number of new products made from rice husks, such as antibacterial paint, self-cleaning paint and fire-resistant paint of high quality.

Dr. Nguyen Thi Hoe hopes these products will be welcomed by many countries.

She said that the use of husks as main material will help save fuel, and increase productivity for Vietnamese farmers. The products have been successfully tested and used by many firms in Vietnam.





Nguyen Thi Hoe (L) introduces her bulletproof paint at a conference on May 16, 2013.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Carlosa

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Mig-35 is the cheapest option in short-term due to initial cost of purchase.
> 
> 
> 
> Even the Gripen? Oh please, Mig-35 will cost you more in the long run than Gripen.since Gripen's airframe lifespan is 8000 hours compared to Mig-35's 5000-6000 hours which also consumes twice as much fuel while Mig-35's engine lasts 4000 hours compared to Gripen's 2200 hours, Mig-35 has two engines that need to be replaced compared to Gripen's single engine.
> 
> Maintaining two engines is considerably more expensive..



Gripen is definitely cheaper to operate, but it is almost double the purchase price of the MIG-35, that's not a little thing. Dual engine fighter jets are certainly more expensive to operate but they also have advantages which is why Russia decided to only produce dual engine fighter jets.

Gripen can't be an option at the moment because it uses American engines and the embargo is still on, only naval systems are allowed.

Also, Vietnam is already set up logistically for Russian aircrafts, missiles etc. The Gripen would be a whole new logistical chain and that's also quite expensive. When considering all of that, the Gripen will not be as cheap to operate in the long run as it seems. .

The Gripen NG is an overall good aircraft and cheap to operate, but can't go against the latest air superiority fighters, its radar is not powerful enough (its an small aircraft after all), I don't think it can make it against a SU-30. The testing and competition done by Switzerland showed very clearly that it was inferior to all other aircraft being considered. 



yugocrosrb95 said:


> China already has SU-30's and Vietnam does not have fighter higher than SU-30 while China does, if Vietnam has an option to buy and can afford it then they should buy it if they can because it would be a game changer in SEA and Chinese would think twice before making a move..



The SU-30SM that Vietnam will get is not something that China has, still, China does have SU-30 and they've been doing their own improvements so its difficult to say how the J-11B would fare against a SU-30SM, chinese engines are definitely inferior when compared to Russian engines, but yes, it could be a game changer to introduce a new fighter with new missiles that is totally different than what China has or what China is familiar with

That being said, lets not forget that the Indian SU-30MK1 just trashed the British Typhoon in exercises last year, so the superiority of Typhoon over SU-30 is far from being clear.

I would say the Meteor missile is what helps the most.
The Meteor missile has a range in excess of 100km. It is designed for a speed greater than Mach 4. The missile has a large no escape zone which is actually even more important than the range, but combined with the range, Its just very bad news for any opponent. .As far as I can see, that's the real game changing element of having the Typhoon. If Vietnam can get cheap or second hand Typhoons, then that's a good deal.




yugocrosrb95 said:


> Vietnam could look to buy documents for G-4 Super Galeb from Serbia...



Manufacturing aircraft is a lot more than documents, Vietnam does not have the supporting industries to make sophisticated aircraft parts. The technology is not there yet. Nobody in Vietnam is seriously thinking about manufacturing fighter jets.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Vietnam’s Leadership Succession Struggle*
A pressure-packed political succession has entered its final stages.

Vietnam’s Leadership Succession Struggle | The Diplomat

By Jonathan D. London
January 14, 2016

In Hanoi this week a pressure-packed political succession entered its final stages. But its outcomes remain undetermined. Instead, an intense struggle for power is underway within the country’s divided political elite, with leadership over the Communist Party hanging in the balance. With its expanding economy compromised by institutional weaknesses, its populous clamoring for more transparent and democratic governance, and its foreign relations confronted with escalating regional tensions, the implications of Vietnam’s leadership succession are not to be underestimated and extend well beyond Vietnam.

At the core of tensions is determination of the Party’s leadership for the 12th Party Congress, which will sit until 2021 and which is scheduled to get underway on the 21st of this month. Following tradition, the determination for the new leadership centers on the preparation of a leadership roster, which was to be finalized this week and voted upon next week, and which will ultimately determine who will occupy the positions of party general secretary, prime minister, state president, and national assembly president, among other key positions. The first two positions are the most powerful in Vietnam’s political hierarchy. Yet unlike China and, indeed, unlike most countries, Vietnam lacks a supreme leader and even a commander in chief.

The tensions in Vietnam this week center on a white-hot controversy that concerns both who is to be on the list and who has the right to decide it and thus with whom supreme authority lies.

Until very recently, the most compelling sub-plot in Vietnam’s leadership succession was the contest for the position of party general secretary, which had shaped up as a competition among the current general secretary Nguyen Phu Trong and his supporters on the one hand and the camp of Vietnam’s sitting prime minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, on the other. At this late moment, the question of whether one or neither of these principals will secure leadership remains undecided, even as Trong has by appearances gained the upper hand.

Vietnam’s politics are not meant to be dramatic. Yet within the last few days the competition for the position of general secretary and decisional power over the leadership roster has taken a series of dramatic turns. Perhaps most strikingly, a struggle has emerged over the decisional authority of the current general secretary, the 16-member Politburo he leads, and the 175-member Party’s Central Committee, with a host of retired and current party power-brokers seeking influence to the best of their abilities. It is a political scrum, to put it mildly. And while it is worth knowing who the principal contestants for power are, the most vital questions arising from the leadership succession concern the direction of Vietnam’s politics itself.

Let us start with the contest for position of party general secretary. Sitting Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung’s pursuit of the position draws support from the power base he has cultivated among elites across various sectors over the course of his two terms in office. Yet the prime minister is a controversial figure. To his supporters, he is Vietnam’s most eloquent statesman, a reform champion, and a patriot keen to end Hanoi’s deference to Beijing. Indeed, Dung projects a public commitment to market liberalizing reforms and a willingness to expand freedoms “in accordance with the law.”

Critics allege the prime minister is most committed to expanding the wealth and influence of his family and supporters and well-placed foreign investors, even from China. They hold him responsible for large-scale bankruptcies and profligate lending that have left Vietnam with an onerous public debt. According to these critics, Dung is a dangerous phony with a penchant for expanding his power while talking about “democracy” and “human rights” and vindictively silencing critics through draconian means. Conservatives mistrust the prime minister for his alleged association with ill-gotten wealth (over which he certainly has no monopoly), his willingness to hold Beijing to account for its expansionist conduct, and his enthusiasm for seeking advice from the likes of Tony Blair. And yet despite all this mistrust, Dung retains an enigmatic appeal. He has survived challenges by outwitting detractors.

Crucially, however, party conservatives, and in particular Party Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong retain control over key levers of procedural power, and are using these to block Dung’s path to power. What is their plan?

Though ineligible for another full term due to age restrictions, there is precedent for the party secretary to install himself for another one or two years, during which time he may use his control over the means of Party discipline and ideology to buttress his support base and groom the viable successor he currently lacks. This is precisely what he has done.

Not known for his intellectual dynamism, Trong and his supporters’ grit and determination have caught many off guard. This is best illustrated by the party secretary’s under-the-radar success in cajoling central committee members to tacitly accept a decision authored by himself forbidding current or future committees from nominating or voting persons for leadership positions who are not on the official list endorsed by the general secretary himself. Outside his narrow support base, enthusiasm for two more years of Trong’s stewardship is modest at best. Yet Trong has won a level of support in the Politburo by offering potential swing votes a spot on the leadership roster he has authored.

However, through his aggressive pursuit (or usurpation, as some would have it) of authority, Trong himself has generated resentment, not only within the elite ranks of the central committee and Dung supporters, but also among broader segments of the Party and the general population. The upshot of this is that Vietnam’s leadership succession today is not limited to a competition between Dung and Trong and nor is it limited to the world of elite politics.

While many members of Vietnam elite have benefited from patron-client politics, years of political stalemate under the Trong-Dung rivalry have taken their toll, leading increasing ranks of hitherto-passive observers to the view that interest group politics of the sort Vietnam has developed have undermined the coherence and effectiveness of state policy. There is indeed a chance that Vietnam will say goodbye to both Dung and Trong. This could happen as a result of an unhappy compromise between the two camps. Still, for now this appears unlikely. Instead, a high-stakes and very public competition has taken shape.

Within the last few days however, two developments that only recently seemed unlikely have indeed occurred. The first of these developments is that, by most accounts, Trong has indeed nominated himself to serve an additional one or two years, despite age limits, while naming three other politburo members to his four-person roster, effectively terminating Dung’s candidacy.

*Contest of Wills*

But the story doesn’t end there. For over the course of the last several days the Central Committee together with at least one former politburo member have effectively declared the current party secretary’s ban on nominations to be illegal, null and void and have proceeded to put forward their own nominations, even as the Politburo has thus far declined to recognize them, and are even said to have rejected the general secretary’s roster by an open vote. The central committee, in other words, is claiming real authority in nominating and approving candidates. All of this sets the stage for a contest of wills for which there is decidedly no script.

No one knows how things will shape up. If one or both of the prime minister or party secretary exit, the main question is whether inheritors of the leadership-by-committee mantle will be mere acolytes of established interest-based camps or more independently minded leaders drawn from the politburo or, intriguingly, the military. If Trong prevails, slower reforms are likely. With Dung, all bets are off. Either way, Vietnam’s politics will be entering a new era.

For the 96 percent standing outside the party and the 99 percent standing outside the theater of elite politics, the struggle for Vietnam’s future has generated intense interest, albeit interest pulsing with currents of willful optimism, resignation, and outright desperation. While proponents of reforms lament the passing of yet another undemocratic election, others see the drama and chaos of the succession struggle as part of a larger process of political evolution.

Such a perspective is not without grounds. In recent years Vietnam’s political culture has become increasingly pluralistic. Vietnam is more open than China. Its citizens are less suppressed and exhibit a thirst for internationalization. With 30 million Facebook users and innumerable political blogs, the country has seen a rapid revival of interest in politics and in the long lost arts of social and political commentary. All of this is visible in the leadership struggle.

In recent weeks party elites have been leaking and counter-leaking internal memos and accusations and openly expressing their views over the Internet, while retired and even active party members have openly demanded the abandonment of Leninism as part of comprehensive institutional reforms. It is conceivable that the tensions and chaos kicked up by the current leadership succession will lend momentum to these calls. The notion that only tiny fractions of Vietnam’s population are interested in politics is fading fast. Indeed, Vietnam’s politics are evolving more rapidly than its political elites recognize.

While Vietnamese vary in their political perspectives, there is a broad desire among them for the country’s politics to be liberated from unaccountable politics dominated by entrenched elites. Whether the 12th party congress brings that outcome closer remains to be seen.

_Jonathan D. London is a professor in the Department of Asian and International Studies and Core Member of the Southeast Asia Research Centre at the City University of Hong Kong. His recent publications include _Politics in Contemporary Vietnam: Party, State, and Authority Relations_(2014, Palgrave Macmillan)._


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## Aqsuperman

Some worn out tanks found a new life as these


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## yugocrosrb95

Carlosa said:


> Gripen is definitely cheaper to operate, but it is almost double the purchase price of the MIG-35, that's not a little thing.



No it isn't double the price of Mig-35.



> Gripen can't be an option at the moment because it uses American engines and the embargo is still on, only naval systems are allowed.



Việt Nam mua tiêm kích Gripen để thay MiG-21? - Tạp Chí Xã Hội Công Nghệ Thông Tin, Tin tức công nghệ



> Also, Vietnam is already set up logistically for Russian aircrafts, missiles etc. The Gripen would be a whole new logistical chain and that's also quite expensive. When considering all of that, the Gripen will not be as cheap to operate in the long run as it seems. .



...and that happened with SU-30.



> The Gripen NG is an overall good aircraft and cheap to operate, but can't go against the latest air superiority fighters, its radar is not powerful enough (its an small aircraft after all), I don't think it can make it against a SU-30.



You're ignorant/uninformed and you should just shut up and be quiet.

Gripen C/D will get a radar upgrade in 2017 which will allow it to see 4 m2 RCS aircrafts at distance of 300 kilometers and 0.1 m2 at 120 kilometers and Gripen C/D can fire KEPD 350 and Meteor BVRAAM.



> The testing and competition done by Switzerland showed very clearly that it was inferior to all other aircraft being considered.



Sure as you use outdated information and say Gripen NG is Gripen A/B.



> The SU-30SM that Vietnam will get is not something that China has, still, China does have SU-30 and they've been doing their own improvements so its difficult to say how the J-11B would fare against a SU-30SM, chinese engines are definitely inferior when compared to Russian engines, but yes, it could be a game changer to introduce a new fighter with new missiles that is totally different than what China has or what China is familiar with



China knows limitations of SU-30.



> That being said, lets not forget that the Indian SU-30MK1 just trashed the British Typhoon in exercises last year, so the superiority of Typhoon over SU-30 is far from being clear.



You have no credibility at all, just shut up.



> I would say the Meteor missile is what helps the most.
> The Meteor missile has a range in excess of 100km. It is designed for a speed greater than Mach 4. The missile has a large no escape zone which is actually even more important than the range, but combined with the range, Its just very bad news for any opponent. .As far as I can see, that's the real game changing element of having the Typhoon. If Vietnam can get cheap or second hand Typhoons, then that's a good deal.



Gripen C/D can use Meteor as Typhoon while Typhoon has RAM which makes it stealthy.



> Manufacturing aircraft is a lot more than documents, Vietnam does not have the supporting industries to make sophisticated aircraft parts. The technology is not there yet. Nobody in Vietnam is seriously thinking about manufacturing fighter jets.



Soko G-4 Super Galeb is a Ground-Attack Jet and Vietnam can do it and I bet that they could produce it for couple to few million dollars.


----------



## Viet

That is what I hoped for, in the making, or at least theoretically: East Asia Military Alliance: Japan, Vietnam and Philippines. the three.

Good: the Japanese share with us classified information on Chinese forces' movements in the South China Sea. not only because we need to know where they are, but our subs need GPS coordinates of chinese surface warships to program on-board cruise missiles. just in case. what about the movements of Chinese submarines? will the Japanese share the info with our Navy as well?


-
--
---
----

January 15, 2016 2:30 pm JST
Defense information

*Japan eager for security agreements with Philippines, Vietnam*

TOKYO -- The Japanese government hopes that by the end of the year it can conclude agreements with the Philippines and Vietnam on sharing and protecting classified defense information.

The pacts would allow the countries' armed forces to share information on defense equipment and other nations' troop movements.

Japan aims to strengthen defense cooperation with members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations to counter China, which is increasing its presence in the South China Sea. Deals reached with the Philippines and Vietnam would be the first defense information pacts between Japan and ASEAN members.

If agreements are signed, Japan would be able to share information on *Chinese forces' movements in the South China Sea*, where the Philippines and Vietnam both have territorial disputes with China. In October, a U.S. Navy vessel sailed near islands that China is building in the South China Sea.

Neither the Philippines nor Vietnam have much in the way of navies or air forces. Japan is considering whether to provide the Philippines with training aircraft and other military equipment used by its Maritime Self-Defense Force.

Japanese Defense Minister Gen Nakatani plans to visit the Philippines and Vietnam early this year to open talks on sharing military information.

The agreements would require each party to strictly control shared information.

Japan has concluded similar information security agreements with the U.S., the U.K., France, Australia, India and NATO.

(Nikkei)


Defense information: Japan eager for security agreements with Philippines, Vietnam- Nikkei Asian Review


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## Carlosa

yugocrosrb95 said:


> No it isn't double the price of Mig-35..



Yes, it is, did you see how much Brazil paid for the Gripen NG? 4.7 billion for 36 planes, make the math if you are able.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> You're ignorant/uninformed and you should just shut up and be quiet.
> 
> Gripen C/D will get a radar upgrade in 2017 which will allow it to see 4 m2 RCS aircrafts at distance of 300 kilometers and 0.1 m2 at 120 kilometers and Gripen C/D can fire KEPD 350 and Meteor BVRAAM..



Maybe you need to get better informed about the radar of the SU-30SM and SU-35.

And who the fuk are you to tell me to shut up?

Reported!!!



yugocrosrb95 said:


> Soko G-4 Super Galeb is a Ground-Attack Jet and Vietnam can do it and I bet that they could produce it for couple to few million dollars.



Too bad that the vietnamese military doesn't listen to you then.


----------



## Viet

yugo, I don´t think that you said is nice. that´s nothing special, if carlosa has different view than you, nevertheless it shouldn´t provoke you to personally attack him. different opinions from different views, different people are the most normal thing of the world.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> *Vietnam produces fireproof, bulletproof paint from rice husks*
> 
> _12.01.2016
> 
> VietNamNet Bridge - A local company has successfully produced fireproof, bulletproof paint made from rice husks, with the price one third of foreign products of the same kind._
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> _Test of Kova fireproof paint._
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At right is the wood covered with fireproof paint of Vietnam, which is burnt over one hour without being harmed. The left is wood covered with German fireproof paint, which burned after 22 minutes. Photo: Zen Nguyen
> _
> 
> Vietnamese paint company Kova this May launched its nano fireproof and bulletproof paint made from husks. The new products have attracted attention of local and foreign scientists and enterprises.
> 
> Husk is an agricultural by-product, often used as fuel, to make fertilizer. Dr. Nguyen Thi Hoe, Chairwoman of the Kova Paint Group, has used this by-product to produce special product – fireproof and bulletproof paint.
> 
> Hoe said the fireproof paint is active in the temperatures of 800-1,200oC and it does not create toxic gas. Tests prove that the quality of this product is even better than similar products of Singapore and Germany.
> 
> Notably, this product can work 360 minutes, exceeding the highest level of Vietnamese standards for fireproof products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _ Kova bulletproof paint is praised by experts as it helps reduce the weight of bulletproof vests from 60% to 70%._
> 
> According to Hoe, 12 tons of rice husk can be burned to have 1 ton of ash, which is processed by hi-tech to create nano paint. 1kg of nano paint can cover 1.5 m2 of surface.
> 
> Meanwhile, bulletproof paint is praised by experts as it helps reduce the weight of bulletproof vests from 60% to 70%.
> 
> Besides nano bulletproof paint, Kova has also launched a number of new products made from rice husks, such as antibacterial paint, self-cleaning paint and fire-resistant paint of high quality.
> 
> Dr. Nguyen Thi Hoe hopes these products will be welcomed by many countries.
> 
> She said that the use of husks as main material will help save fuel, and increase productivity for Vietnamese farmers. The products have been successfully tested and used by many firms in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nguyen Thi Hoe (L) introduces her bulletproof paint at a conference on May 16, 2013.



This is excellent article, @Viet thanks. I could see the application for this here in Canada. I will look more into this!


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yugo, I don´t think that you said is nice. that´s nothing special, if carlosa has different view than you, nevertheless it shouldn´t provoke you to personally attack him. different opinions from different views, different people are the most normal thing of the world.



What can you expect from a teenager? Not much different than the chinese teenagers that populate this forum with similar results.


----------



## yugocrosrb95

Carlosa said:


> Yes, it is, did you see how much Brazil paid for the Gripen NG? 4.7 billion for 32 planes, make the math if you are able.



No it isn't as Brazil didn't pay 4.68 billion US dollars for Gripen NG, you're uninformed.



> Maybe you need to get better informed about the radar of the SU-30SM and SU-35.



Did I mention SU-35? No.

SU-35 has a different radar than SU-30's and SU-30SM is no exception.

You should have known that.



> And who the fuk are you to tell me to shut up?
> 
> Reported!!!



I am looking forward for you being banned for spreading misinformation's.



> Too bad that the vietnamese military doesn't listen to you then.



Vietnam produces own piston/propeler propelled trainer planes and sooner or later they will need to replace Aero L-39 Albatross if they are still flying, at very least an assembly line if Vietnam chooses to upgrade L-39 to L-39NG standard.



Viet said:


> yugo, I don´t think that you said is nice. that´s nothing special, if carlosa has different view than you, nevertheless it shouldn´t provoke you to personally attack him. different opinions from different views, different people are the most normal thing of the world.



I don't see point in being nice to nobody who spreads misinformation like a chinese in Viet threads.


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## Carlosa

yugocrosrb95 said:


> No it isn't as Brazil didn't pay 4.68 billion US dollars for Gripen NG, you're uninformed..



You are the one that is uninformed and is spreading misinformation. 

Brazil finalises $4.68bn Gripen NG deal



yugocrosrb95 said:


> Did I mention SU-35? No.
> 
> SU-35 has a different radar than SU-30's and SU-30SM is no exception.
> 
> You should have known that
> .



SU-35 radar is one of the radar options for SU-30SM


----------



## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> I don't see point in being nice to nobody who spreads misinformation like a chinese in Viet threads.


come on, we are here all amateurs, and not military experts, not members of governments. internet is a source of information and misinformation. the crux is to find the correct answer. carlosa is a good man. be nice to him.


----------



## Carlosa

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Vietnam produces own piston/propeler propelled trainer planes and sooner or later they will need to replace Aero L-39 Albatross if they are still flying, at very least an assembly line if Vietnam chooses to upgrade L-39 to L-39NG standard.
> .



What piston/propeler propelled trainer planes have to do with the subject of a replacement for Mig-21 that will need to be a sophisticated fighter jet? Interesting logic you have.


----------



## Viet

relax bro...also, I hope the US relax the rules on arms control, and allow selling and transferring technology if we decide for...my favorite Saab Gripen NG.




*A Coming Shift in Vietnamese Military Aviation?*
Vietnam’s People’s Air Force (VPAF) could begin flying Western fighters. Here’s why that matters.






By Robert Farley for The Diplomat
January 16, 2016

If Vietnam buys the Gripen, Typhoon, or Rafale, what exactly will it be getting?

As several other writers have noted, the acquisition of Western aircraft (most likely the Gripen, Rafale, or Typhoon) would represent a huge shift in Vietnam’s defense trajectory. Vietnam hasn’t flown a Western warplane since the Vietnamese People’s Army overran Saigon, capturing 41 F-5 Tigers in the process. The Tigers that didn’t end up in the Soviet Union or the Eastern Bloc were soon grounded for lack of spares.

To be sure, Vietnam has experience with modern jet fighters, currently flying a few dozen advanced Flanker variants purchased from Russia. These aircraft are far more capable than the older MiG-21s that make up the bulk of the Vietnam People’s Air Force (VPAF), but they remain Soviet kit. Any European aircraft will require what amounts to a revolution in maintenance, spares, weapons, and handling procedures.

Thus, the sale would likely represent a long-term relationship between Vietnam and whatever country is lucky enough to get the sale. It would likely require some technology transfer (especially if Vietnam can generate a competitive bidding process), the presence of engineers and maintenance personnel on the ground, and a long training regimen. The aircraft will (undoubtedly) return to the host country for periodic upgrades and overhauls as new weapon and software systems become available.

Nothing about this is particularly new or novel; buying a fighter jet has become far less about hooking up than establishing a long-term relationship. But it will represent one of the first of these kinds of relationship that Vietnam has established with a Western country. And it says much about Vietnam’s long-term strategic outlook that Hanoi is exploring the option in such depth.

In this sense, Vietnamese interest in the Typhoon and its competitors is part and parcel with Hanoi’s other major diplomatic initiative, membership in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. The TPP likely plays no small role in the willingness of Western states to contemplate selling their aircraft to Vietnam, including the potential for technology transfer. The TPP doesn’t mean that Western technology is suddenly secure in Vietnam, but it does imply a strong directionality to Hanoi’s economic policy. It also suggest that Vietnam is extremely serious about maintaining an adversarial posture towards China for the foreseeable future.

And so before all that long, European-built VPAF fighters may patrol the South China Sea, while European and American investment pours into the Vietnamese economy. This was not an outcome that many people envisioned in 1975.

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## yugocrosrb95

Carlosa said:


> You are the one that is uninformed and is spreading misinformation.
> 
> Brazil finalises $4.68bn Gripen NG deal



You are simply further proving my point that you are uninformed and spreading misinformation, it is because you aren't reading carefully nor are you paying attention to details at all, Brazil's deal does not involve Gripen NG alone at all and people like you claimed what you are claming now because they didn't pay attention to detail.

Brazil's deal involves production of Gripen NG, training their engineers, technology transfer, improving and implementing Brazilian technology, facilities/factories for local production of Gripen NG in Brazil, maintainance for Gripen NG until 2050, etc...



> SU-35 radar is one of the radar options for SU-30SM



Only SU-35 and SU-37 can generate enough power for utilize full potential of Ibris-E radar, using it on SU-30's is a waste because it would have identical to the best radar available for SU-30's



Viet said:


> come on, we are here all amateurs, and not military experts, not members of governments. internet is a source of information and misinformation. the crux is to find the correct answer. carlosa is a good man. be nice to him.



I am aware of that, but I atleast check multiple sources, I pay attention to detail and compile the information like bullet points and such for understanding the context of the information...



Carlosa said:


> What piston/propeler propelled trainer planes have to do with the subject of a replacement for Mig-21 that will need to be a sophisticated fighter jet? Interesting logic you have.



You have short memory.

Vietnam needs to upgrade or replace L-39 Albatross trainer/ground attack jet, they could arrange local assembly and even produce some parts, it is in interest of Vietnam's goverment and military to locally produce military equipment as much as possible.

If lets say Vietnam manages to aquire all necessary machinery, tools and documents for Soko Super Galeb G4 and give funds to Serbs to reinitiate G4 upgrade program which adds radar and other improvements. Such a jet would be good and cheap for ground attack and with radar against helicopters and maybe anti-ship if it can carry RBS 15.

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## Carlosa

yugocrosrb95 said:


> You are simply further proving my point that you are uninformed and spreading misinformation, it is because you aren't reading carefully nor are you paying attention to details at all, Brazil's deal does not involve Gripen NG alone at all and people like you claimed what you are claming now because they didn't pay attention to detail.
> 
> Brazil's deal involves production of Gripen NG, training their engineers, technology transfer, improving and implementing Brazilian technology, facilities/factories for local production of Gripen NG in Brazil, maintainance for Gripen NG until 2050, etc....



I was very well aware that that deal includes domestic production in Brazil and its standard anyway that sales contracts include tech transfer, spare parts, maintenance and personnel training. How does that change the fact that Brazil is spending 4.7 billion for 36 Gripen NG or that the Gripen NG is actually quite an expensive aircraft to purchase which was the original point?

Mig-35 is being offered at $35 million. A fully loaded Gripen NG is not less that $80 million, flyaway price. Add spare parts, maintenance, training, etc and you get way more than 100 million which is what Brazil paid. Virtually all contracts include those extra elements and that's considered part of the price of the aircraft, that's why there are different price names for what the price includes such as flyaway price and full price.

4.7 billion is what Brazil has to pay to Saab for the Gripen NG deal including tech transfer which is quite typical for many purchases these days. Many other expenses related to setting up production in Brazil are not included in that amount since those are internal expenses in Brazil and are not expenses that have to be paid to Saab.

The problem here seems to be that you didn't know what Brazil paid for the aircraft and you denied it before checking facts and after I showed the link, you are trying to come up with excuses to make it look like paying for training, maintenance, etc is not paying for the aircraft even that is the standard case in virtually all deals. Tech transfer is something that manufactures often have to give out in order to close a sale, nothing unusual there. India for example, hardly buys anything without tech transfer.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> Only SU-35 and SU-37 can generate enough power for utilize full potential of Ibris-E radar, using it on SU-30's is a waste because it would have identical to the best radar available for SU-30's



Not really, SU-30 doesn't have enough space to house the larger power supply that powers the SU-35's radar, but SU30SM, which has a modified airframe is designed to carry that power supply as an option.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> Vietnam needs to upgrade or replace L-39 Albatross trainer/ground attack jet, they could arrange local assembly and even produce some parts, it is in interest of Vietnam's goverment and military to locally produce military equipment as much as possible.
> 
> If lets say Vietnam manages to aquire all necessary machinery, tools and documents for Soko Super Galeb G4 and give funds to Serbs to reinitiate G4 upgrade program which adds radar and other improvements. Such a jet would be good and cheap for ground attack and with radar against helicopters and maybe anti-ship if it can carry RBS 15.



Vietnam needs something more sophisticated than a trainer on steroids for its plan to replace the MIG-21. The fact that they are considering Typhoon, Gripen, etc, I think it already gives some clues about what they want, don't you think? The production capability required to produce a trainer is quite different than what is required to produce a sophisticated fighter jet which is the original point of the discussion brought up by Viet, he was talking about producing the replacement for the MIG-21. You bringing up the trainer production has no bearing on the subject that we were discussing.


----------



## yugocrosrb95

Carlosa said:


> I was very well aware that that deal includes domestic production in Brazil and its standard anyway that sales contracts include spare parts, maintenance and personnel training.



If you were well aware of that then you would't claim that Brazil spent 4.68 billion USD on 36 Gripen NG's.



> How does that change the fact that Brazil is spending 4.7 billion for 36 Gripen NG or that the Gripen NG is actually quite an expensive aircraft to purchase which was the original point?



Again, Brazil isn't paying 4.68 billion for 36 Gripen NG's alone, you said you were aware of that yet you again say that Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's despite you being aware that that isn't correct and yet you called it a fact, how can something be a fact when it is incorrect?



> Mig-35 is being offered at $35 million.



Russia produces Mig 35's and they buy it at exclusive price which is 35 million USD while Egypt is buying a unit at 43.5 million USD.



> A fully loaded Gripen NG is not less that $80 million.



You cite acquisition price of Mig-35 for Russia which produces it and buys it at exclusive price of 35 million USD to Gripen NG where we don't know the price yet you claim 80 million USD for a fully loaded Gripen NG which with fully loaded you mean with combat armarment?!? Unfair comparison to say the least...

How do you know that Gripen NG costs 80 million USD? Is it official price for Brazil? Since it will have Brazilian electronics and parts in produced in Brazil yet I suspect that everything else produced outside of Brazil is under heavy tax which Brazilian goverments designed such a tax system to force investements and construction of factories in Brazil which is reason why Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 produced there which brought cutting edge silicon fabrication plants 90 nm and latest was 45 nm.



> Not really, SU-30 doesn't have enough space to house the larger power supply that powers the SU-35, but SU30SM, which has a modified airframe is designed to carry that power supply as an option.



I can't find such information for the claims that you are making...

SU-30 SM is based/two seat version of SU.27B/SU.32 and SU.30 MKI.



> Vietnam needs something more sophisticated than a trainer on steroids for its plan to replace the MIG-21. The fact that they are considering Typhoon, Gripen, etc, I think it already gives some clues about what they want, don't you think?



If happens that conflict arises between China and Vietnam, SU-30 SM's would be tasked to do tasks involving ground, sea and air with less focused defense due to three fronts while a "trainer on steroids" is pointless to you despite need of replacement of L-39 Albatross thus why not have a trainer on steroids that would do ground attacks and shotting down helicopters also possibly launching anti-ship missile...

If the conflict happens and Vietnam possibly gets cut off, unable to aquire more advanced equipment and Vietnam doesn't have production capability to produce a light ground attack jet, they would be forced to use SU-30 SM's and increase chances of losses rather than having a production of light ground attack jets which would allow SU-30's to be solely or for most part focus on air defense and naval targets...


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## Carlosa

yugocrosrb95 said:


> If you were well aware of that then you would't claim that Brazil spent 4.68 billion USD on 36 Gripen NG's.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, Brazil isn't paying 4.68 billion for 36 Gripen NG's alone, you said you were aware of that yet you again say that Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's despite you being aware that that isn't correct and yet you called it a fact, how can something be a fact when it is incorrect?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia produces Mig 35's and they buy it at exclusive price which is 35 million USD while Egypt is buying a unit at 43.5 million USD.
> 
> 
> 
> You cite acquisition price of Mig-35 for Russia which produces it and buys it at exclusive price of 35 million USD to Gripen NG where we don't know the price yet you claim 80 million USD for a fully loaded Gripen NG which with fully loaded you mean with combat armarment?!? Unfair comparison to say the least...
> .



Fully loaded has nothing to do with weapons, weapons are always a separate thing, you are mixing up things here. Fully loaded means all the internal features. I have read an article in the past that gives the cost at not less than 80 million.

I have a folder of articles about the Gripen, I collect all the information about it that I can find, the news about the local production in Brazil have been around for quite some time.

What I said was correct, 4.7 billion is what Brazil pays for getting 36 Gripens.

Virtually all contracts include those extra elements such as spare parts, maintenance, traing and very often tech transfer and that's considered part of the price of the aircraft, that's why there are different price names for what the price includes such as flyaway price and full price.

4.7 billion is what Brazil has to pay to Saab for the Gripen NG deal including tech transfer which is quite typical for many purchases these days. Many other expenses related to setting up production in Brazil are not included in that amount since those are internal expenses in Brazil and are not expenses that have to be paid to Saab.

The problem here seems to be that you didn't know what Brazil paid for the aircraft and you denied it before checking facts and after I showed the link, you are trying to come up with excuses to make it look like paying for training, maintenance, etc is not paying for the aircraft even that is the standard case in virtually all deals. Tech transfer is something that manufactures often have to give out in order to close a sale, nothing unusual there. India for example, hardly buys anything without tech transfer.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> IIf happens that conflict arises between China and Vietnam, SU-30 SM's would be tasked to do tasks involving ground, sea and air with less focused defense due to three fronts while a "trainer on steroids" is pointless to you despite need of replacement of L-39 Albatross thus why not have a trainer on steroids that would do ground attacks and shotting down helicopters also possibly launching anti-ship missile...
> 
> If the conflict happens and Vietnam possibly gets cut off, unable to aquire more advanced equipment and Vietnam doesn't have production capability to produce a light ground attack jet, they would be forced to use SU-30 SM's and increase chances of losses rather than having a production of light ground attack jets which would allow SU-30's to be solely or for most part focus on air defense and naval targets...



If there is a land war with china, a trainer on steroids has no chance against chinese air defenses, it would be useless. I have nothing in principle against having such an aircraft, but against a power like china, I don't see it and I don't see any of the Sukhoi aircraft that Vietnam has doing ground support missions, they'll be used as interceptors and for naval attack.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> Russia produces Mig 35's and they buy it at exclusive price which is 35 million USD while Egypt is buying a unit at 43.5 million USD.
> 
> 
> 
> You cite acquisition price of Mig-35 for Russia which produces it and buys it at exclusive price of 35 million USD to Gripen NG where we don't know the price yet you claim 80 million USD for a fully loaded Gripen NG which with fully loaded you mean with combat armarment?!? Unfair comparison to say the least....



Not correct, Russia didn't buy the MIG-35 yet, can't say what price they will pay. I read a couple of times about 35 million as a price for export as a good deal. Egypt paid more because the deal is bankrolled by the Saudis, Russia doesn't have to give them their best price.

By the way, Sweden is paying 150 million for each Gripen NG including parts, maintenance and training, which is quite similar to what Brazil is paying.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> If you were well aware of that then you would't claim that Brazil spent 4.68 billion USD on 36 Gripen NG's.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, Brazil isn't paying 4.68 billion for 36 Gripen NG's alone, you said you were aware of that yet you again say that Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's despite you being aware that that isn't correct and yet you called it a fact, how can something be a fact when it is incorrect?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia produces Mig 35's and they buy it at exclusive price which is 35 million USD while Egypt is buying a unit at 43.5 million USD.
> 
> 
> 
> You cite acquisition price of Mig-35 for Russia which produces it and buys it at exclusive price of 35 million USD to Gripen NG where we don't know the price yet you claim 80 million USD for a fully loaded Gripen NG which with fully loaded you mean with combat armarment?!? Unfair comparison to say the least...
> 
> How do you know that Gripen NG costs 80 million USD? Is it official price for Brazil? Since it will have Brazilian electronics and parts in produced in Brazil yet I suspect that everything else produced outside of Brazil is under heavy tax which Brazilian goverments designed such a tax system to force investements and construction of factories in Brazil which is reason why Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 produced there which brought cutting edge silicon fabrication plants 90 nm and latest was 45 nm.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find such information for the claims that you are making...
> 
> SU-30 SM is based/two seat version of SU.27B/SU.32 and SU.30 MKI.
> 
> 
> 
> If happens that conflict arises between China and Vietnam, SU-30 SM's would be tasked to do tasks involving ground, sea and air with less focused defense due to three fronts while a "trainer on steroids" is pointless to you despite need of replacement of L-39 Albatross thus why not have a trainer on steroids that would do ground attacks and shotting down helicopters also possibly launching anti-ship missile...
> 
> If the conflict happens and Vietnam possibly gets cut off, unable to aquire more advanced equipment and Vietnam doesn't have production capability to produce a light ground attack jet, they would be forced to use SU-30 SM's and increase chances of losses rather than having a production of light ground attack jets which would allow SU-30's to be solely or for most part focus on air defense and naval targets...



Here is one article quoting Saab saying that the Gripen NG will be about 80 million:
Replacing the CF18: Part II - The Gripen NG - CDA Institute Blog: The Forum

One part of the article:

*Cost and industrial competition*

Unfortunately the Gripen suffers from a problem shared by many western fighters: an inefficient production scale. With only two confirmed clients and relatively small orders, Saab cannot create manufacturing learning curves or economies of scale that would drive down costs. Moreover the NG is in a very early stage of development, with over 70% of the aircraft’s systems requiring development from the Gripen C. Consequently there is significant discrepancy in the projected flyaway and operational costs. SaabAB has suggested the aircraft’s costs will be approximately *USD$80 million (2012 dollars)*, but the Swiss government’s fixed cost is approximately $105 million.

-------------------------------------

Here is the article that says that Sweden is paying 150 million a piece including parts, maintenance and training, again, very similar to what Brazil will pay:

Murphy's Law: Gripen Competes On Price And Being Good Enough



yugocrosrb95 said:


> If you were well aware of that then you would't claim that Brazil spent 4.68 billion USD on 36 Gripen NG's.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, Brazil isn't paying 4.68 billion for 36 Gripen NG's alone, you said you were aware of that yet you again say that Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's despite you being aware that that isn't correct and yet you called it a fact, how can something be a fact when it is incorrect?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia produces Mig 35's and they buy it at exclusive price which is 35 million USD while Egypt is buying a unit at 43.5 million USD.
> 
> 
> 
> You cite acquisition price of Mig-35 for Russia which produces it and buys it at exclusive price of 35 million USD to Gripen NG where we don't know the price yet you claim 80 million USD for a fully loaded Gripen NG which with fully loaded you mean with combat armarment?!? Unfair comparison to say the least...
> 
> How do you know that Gripen NG costs 80 million USD? Is it official price for Brazil? Since it will have Brazilian electronics and parts in produced in Brazil yet I suspect that everything else produced outside of Brazil is under heavy tax which Brazilian goverments designed such a tax system to force investements and construction of factories in Brazil which is reason why Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 produced there which brought cutting edge silicon fabrication plants 90 nm and latest was 45 nm.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find such information for the claims that you are making...
> 
> SU-30 SM is based/two seat version of SU.27B/SU.32 and SU.30 MKI.
> 
> 
> 
> If happens that conflict arises between China and Vietnam, SU-30 SM's would be tasked to do tasks involving ground, sea and air with less focused defense due to three fronts while a "trainer on steroids" is pointless to you despite need of replacement of L-39 Albatross thus why not have a trainer on steroids that would do ground attacks and shotting down helicopters also possibly launching anti-ship missile...
> 
> If the conflict happens and Vietnam possibly gets cut off, unable to aquire more advanced equipment and Vietnam doesn't have production capability to produce a light ground attack jet, they would be forced to use SU-30 SM's and increase chances of losses rather than having a production of light ground attack jets which would allow SU-30's to be solely or for most part focus on air defense and naval targets...



My original statement about the Gripen NG being double the price of MIG-35 (which you rejected) is now confirmed correct even by your own numbers.

You said Egypt paid 43.5 million, lets accept that's the best price (which I don't think it is, but just to close the topic), that's 2015 dollars.

Gripen NG is at least 80 million, 2012 dollars, that's double right there. Those are flyaway prices in both cases, cased settled.

Price with spares, maintenance and training is about 150 million, Brazil got the tech transfer trowed in just about.


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## yugocrosrb95

Carlosa said:


> Fully loaded has nothing to do with weapons, weapons are always a separate thing, you are mixing up things here. Fully loaded means all the internal features.



Then you should have said so in the first place rather than being vague.



> I have read an article in the past that gives the cost at not less than 80 million.



All we have are estimates from Saab which are cited and those estimates are over 3 years old, I'd rather believe a Brazilian who knows on F16.net



> I have a folder of articles about the Gripen, I collect all the information about it that I can find, the news about the local production in Brazil have been around for quite some time.



That isn't a good way to do it, you should combine and compile informations for proper context and connecting informations to reveal more informations or details.



> What I said was correct, 4.7 billion is what Brazil pays for getting 36 Gripens.



It is incorrect, Brazil didn't pay 4.68 billion USD on 36 Gripen NG's alone.



> Virtually all contracts include those extra elements such as spare parts, maintenance, traing and very often tech transfer and that's considered part of the price of the aircraft, that's why there are different price names for what the price includes such as flyaway price and full price.



Thus you can't claim that Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's alone.



> 4.7 billion is what Brazil has to pay to Saab for the Gripen NG deal including tech transfer which is quite typical for many purchases these days. Many other expenses related to setting up production in Brazil are not included in that amount since those are internal expenses in Brazil and are not expenses that have to be paid to Saab.



From Brazilian F16.net user:
It's really hard to say. Brazil is paying a little bit more than 50 million USD per plane, but you can't just buy the planes, you need all the systems around it for it to be effective. They are also paying 1.5 billion USD for maintenance. Another 900 million USD is for the customization they wanted to do with it featuring Brazilian technologies as well as developing a 2 seat version. There is also a weapon deal and integration of Brazilian weapons, but I can't remember how much that was of the total price. Also setting up the Embraer assembly line is included in the deal and lot's of other stuff I can't remember right now.



> The problem here seems to be that you didn't know what Brazil paid for the aircraft and you denied it before checking facts and after I showed the link, you are trying to come up with excuses to make it look like paying for training, maintenance, etc is not paying for the aircraft even that is the standard case in virtually all deals.



I didn't know? Says the very person that actually doesn't know and sure, I "didn't" check the facts despite doing so already and that is the reason I am arguing with you because I checked the facts a long time ago and you showed the links that I already saw a long time ago...

How are those excuses when you yourself know that those aren't excuses yet you now claim that they are excuses rather than valid argument that you yourself have accepted yet you continue with double standards and confirmation bias.



> Tech transfer is something that manufactures often have to give out in order to close a sale, nothing unusual there. India for example, hardly buys anything without tech transfer.



So you choose to generalize and make unfair comparison's...



> If there is a land war with china, a trainer on steroids has no chance against chinese air defenses, it would be useless. I have nothing in principle against having such an aircraft, but against a power like china, I don't see it and I don't see any of the Sukhoi aircraft that Vietnam has doing ground support missions, they'll be used as interceptors and for naval attack.



You're wrong, you need a ground attack jet to soften up positions while SU-30's and other advanced jets cover the skies while infrantry and armor could push and force retreat including ground air defense. A trainer on steroids with okay radar can be used to shotdown choppers and drones.



> Not correct, Russia didn't buy the MIG-35 yet, can't say what price they will pay. I read a couple of times about 35 million as a price for export as a good deal. Egypt paid more because the deal is bankrolled by the Saudis, Russia doesn't have to give them their best price.



Russia had budget of 1.1 billion USD for 37 Mig-35's thus 35 million USD per unit and you are speculating that Egypt pays more because of Saudi's despite of standard practice that Russia like US buys own products at considerably cheaper price in comparison to the price for the export.



> By the way, Sweden is paying 150 million for each Gripen NG including parts, maintenance and training, which is quite similar to what Brazil is paying.



Isn't the price of the jet.



> Here is one article quoting Saab saying that the Gripen NG will be about 80 million:
> Replacing the CF18: Part II - The Gripen NG - CDA Institute Blog: The Forum
> 
> One part of the article:
> 
> *Cost and industrial competition*
> 
> Unfortunately the Gripen suffers from a problem shared by many western fighters: an inefficient production scale. With only two confirmed clients and relatively small orders, Saab cannot create manufacturing learning curves or economies of scale that would drive down costs. Moreover the NG is in a very early stage of development, with over 70% of the aircraft’s systems requiring development from the Gripen C. Consequently there is significant discrepancy in the projected flyaway and operational costs. SaabAB has suggested the aircraft’s costs will be approximately *USD$80 million (2012 dollars)*, but the Swiss government’s fixed cost is approximately $105 million.



Will you stop using outdated informations that are no longer relevant...



> Here is the article that says that Sweden is paying 150 million a piece including parts, maintenance and training, again, very similar to what Brazil will pay:
> 
> Murphy's Law: Gripen Competes On Price And Being Good Enough


https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmurph/20131201.aspx

...and this prove's you're wrong.



> My original statement about the Gripen NG being double the cost of MIG-35 is now confirmed correct even by your own numbers.



No it isn't confirmed correct since I didn't state any numbers about Gripen NG, only referring to your number of 80 million USD based on an outdated information that you used that is over three years old.



> You said Egypt paid 43.5 million, lets accept that's the best price (which I don't think it is, but just to close the topic), that's 2015 dollars.
> 
> Gripen NG is at least 80 million, 2012 dollars, that's double right there. Those are flyaway prices in both cases, cased settled.



Case is settled and the result is that you lost.


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## Aqsuperman

Yeah , lets just calmdown . We all have very different ideas about things , still not the reason to use such insulting words like that in here...........

Meh check out all the smoke and dust , no need for smoke grenades on this guy. He will create a smoke screen on his own :v


----------



## Carlosa

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Then you should have said so in the first place rather than being vague.
> 
> 
> 
> All we have are estimates from Saab which are cited and those estimates are over 3 years old, I'd rather believe a Brazilian who knows on F16.net
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't a good way to do it, you should combine and compile informations for proper context and connecting informations to reveal more informations or details.
> 
> 
> 
> It is incorrect, Brazil didn't pay 4.68 billion USD on 36 Gripen NG's alone.
> 
> 
> 
> Thus you can't claim that Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's alone.
> 
> 
> 
> From Brazilian F16.net user:
> It's really hard to say. Brazil is paying a little bit more than 50 million USD per plane, but you can't just buy the planes, you need all the systems around it for it to be effective. They are also paying 1.5 billion USD for maintenance. Another 900 million USD is for the customization they wanted to do with it featuring Brazilian technologies as well as developing a 2 seat version. There is also a weapon deal and integration of Brazilian weapons, but I can't remember how much that was of the total price. Also setting up the Embraer assembly line is included in the deal and lot's of other stuff I can't remember right now.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know? Says the very person that actually doesn't know and sure, I "didn't" check the facts despite doing so already and that is the reason I am arguing with you because I checked the facts a long time ago and you showed the links that I already saw a long time ago...
> 
> How are those excuses when you yourself know that those aren't excuses yet you now claim that they are excuses rather than valid argument that you yourself have accepted yet you continue with double standards and confirmation bias.
> 
> 
> 
> So you choose to generalize and make unfair comparison's...
> 
> 
> 
> You're wrong, you need a ground attack jet to soften up positions while SU-30's and other advanced jets cover the skies while infrantry and armor could push and force retreat including ground air defense. A trainer on steroids with okay radar can be used to shotdown choppers and drones.
> 
> 
> 
> Russia had budget of 1.1 billion USD for 37 Mig-35's thus 35 million USD per unit and you are speculating that Egypt pays more because of Saudi's despite of standard practice that Russia like US buys own products at considerably cheaper price in comparison to the price for the export.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't the price of the jet.
> 
> 
> 
> Will you stop using outdated informations that are no longer relevant...
> 
> 
> ...and this prove's you're wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't confirmed correct since I didn't state any numbers about Gripen NG, only referring to your number of 80 million USD based on an outdated information that you used that is over three years old.
> 
> 
> 
> Case is settled and the result is that you lost.



We are going around the definitions of what an aircraft price is: flyaway or full price. Both versions of the price are correct.

You say my number is not correct because its 3 years old even that it comes from Saab? Show me the numbers from Saab. I said all along 80 million fully loaded. Your Brazilian guy said 50 million plus subsystems, so you have not showed what the actual fly away price is including everything for the version and features that were bought. Its nonsense to expect that the price will drop from 80 million to 50 million in 3 years. Since when that guy is a credible reference and without details of those subsystems?

No, I don't have to say in the first place that the price does not include weapons, anybody that understands anything knows that aircraft prices don't include weapons, you just want to avoid admitting a mistake and you go around the bushes, understandable for young kids.

Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's, that's full price including what is usually included in those deals. If you want to argue about price definitions, then you have to first specify what price are you talking about, both versions of the price are correct and both are used, flyaway and full price.

A tactical ground support aircraft will get used to soften up positions assuming that it can survive. You don't want to understand that that type of aircraft can't survive in a conflict with china. By the way, for that role, Vietnam will get the Yak-130 so the one that is speculating with those ideas is you.

I know for a fact that the export price of MIG-35 was offered at 35 million because I read it more than once and I can find the articles if I dedicate some time to it.

My speculation about Egypt's price is reasonable, the arabs always pay top price.

How the article that says Sweden pays 150 million proves me wrong?

If you claim that my information is outdated, then show me more recent information that is credible.

I'm done with this topic, I have a plane to catch.


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## Viet

Carlosa, Yugo bro, there is absolutely no reason to resort to personal attack. Let's stay on topic. 

By the way, there was an interesting article on a Viet website about the plan of establishing 4 airports serving civil as well as military purposes along the border to China. The article is deleted.

Too sensitive, I assume.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, Yugo bro, there is absolutely no reason to resort to personal attack. Let's stay on topic.
> 
> By the way, there was an interesting article on a Viet website about the plan of establishing 4 airports serving civil as well as military purposes along the border to China. The article is deleted.
> 
> Too sensitive, I assume.



I hear you. 

Those 4 airports sound good, make sense. Did you try making a google search for the article title? Maybe someone had a chance to copy it and post it somewhere.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I hear you.
> 
> Those 4 airports sound good, make sense. Did you try making a google search for the article title? Maybe someone had a chance to copy it and post it somewhere.


I accidentally came across with the news. trying google but not able to find it anymore as it was published some time ago. I believe the article was posted on: Vietinfo - Người Việt Đông Âu

yes, if our fighter jets were stationed at the airports close to China, we could response more quickly to any chinese provocations. though the jets are more vulnerable to possible attacks. would assume the 4 airports would be: Ha Giang, Cao Bang, Lang Son and Cam Pha. especially Lng Son. because since ancient times, nearly 1,000 years, the city, with layers of fortifications, has been our most important stronghold against chinese armies. should the enemy capture the city, the way to the lowland is free, to Hanoi. so happened in the war against the Ming. or in the 1979 war, the PLA threw everything they had into the battle, swallowing all casualties, trying to capture Lang Son.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> I accidentally came across with the news. trying google but not able to find it anymore as it was published some time ago. I believe the article was posted on: Vietinfo - Người Việt Đông Âu
> 
> yes, if our fighter jets were stationed at the airports close to China, we could response more quickly to any chinese provocations. though the jets are more vulnerable to possible attacks. would assume the 4 airports would be: Ha Giang, Cao Bang, Lang Son and Cam Pha. especially Lng Son. because since ancient times, nearly 1,000 years, the city, with layers of fortifications, has been our most important stronghold against chinese armies. should the enemy capture the city, the way to the lowland is free, to Hanoi. so happened in the war against the Ming. or in the 1979 war, the PLA threw everything they had into the battle, swallowing all casualties, trying to capture Lang Son.


What a stupid idea to deploy fighers in airports near Sino-Vietnam border ... thank you very much, anyways missiles flying much faster than jet taking off.


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## Viet

*A leader who commands respect*

BY Susan Bell
December 17, 2014
USC News

Alumnus Viet Luong, a paratrooper with the 1st Cavalry Division, becomes the first Vietnamese-born general in the United States military






_Army Brigadier General Viet Xuan Luong_


In 1975, when Viet Luong ’87 was 9 years old, he escaped wartorn Vietnam aboard a United States aircraft carrier along with his parents and seven sisters. The following day, Saigon fell.

“My father, who had fought with the South Vietnamese Marine Corps, had managed to get us the necessary papers to be extracted as political refugees by regular U.S. C-130 airplanes,” Luong said. “But before we could leave, the Communists seized all airport operations and started shelling the airport.

“We thought we were doomed.”

Fortunately for Luong and his family and thousands of other Vietnamese refugees in danger of Communist reprisals, the U.S. government implemented Operation Frequent Wind, a non-combatant civilian evacuation.

Using U.S. marine helicopters that can maneuver more easily and were less susceptible to Communist fire, U.S. soldiers flew Luong and his family to a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Hancock.

“We barely escaped,” Luong said. “My sisters and I were scared to death. When we landed on the USS Hancock, it was so big we didn’t know where we were. We asked our father ‘Dad, where are we?’ He said, ‘We’re on a U.S. carrier.’ We said, ‘What does that mean?’ And he replied, ‘It means nothing in the world can harm you now.’

“I get choked up just talking about it.”

*Giving back*






_Viet Luong, seated in the cockpit of an AH-64D Apache Longbow attack helicopter _
_(Photo/courtesy of the U.S. Army)_


As he stood on the deck of the carrier, Luong realized that he wanted to serve in order to give back to the nation that had saved him and his family from almost certain death.

Thirty nine years later, Brig. Gen. Viet Luong pinned on his first star during a ceremony held in August at Fort Hood, Texas, becoming the first Vietnamese-born general officer in the U.S. military.

Luong is the 1st Cavalry Division’s deputy commanding general for maneuver. The infantry officer commanded a battalion of 82nd Airborne Division paratroopers in Iraq from 2007-08 and led the 101st Airborne Division’s 3rd Brigade Combat Team, the storied Rakkasans, into combat in Afghanistan from 2010-11.

Luong said the promotion was a huge honor, but he credits his men with helping him get there.

“I just try and do the best I can in every job given,” he said. “I would not be where I am today without all the help I have received from my subordinates and superiors.”

*  The high price of freedom*

Luong served in Haiti, Bosnia and Kosovo, where he felt he was able to make a difference. He found his experience commanding troops in Afghanistan and Iraq much tougher.

It’s been the pinnacle of my 27-year military career to be able to command in combat …

*Viet Luong*

“It’s been the pinnacle of my 27-year military career to be able to command in combat, but it’s much more solemn when you lose soldiers. You realize the price of freedom is very high,” he said. “I don’t know if you can ever really deal with something like that. You go through periods where you think of these men all the time. As a commander you are really responsible for their lives. So you try to think critically about how you could have done things better.”

Luong said it helped him to memorialize the fallen warriors under his command.

“I spend time keeping in touch with their spouses and parents and visit memorials. It’s a way of healing.”

*  Starting again from nothing*

Luong’s childhood experiences remain vivid. Arriving in the United States, Luong and his family were taken to Fort Chaffee in Arkansas, which was set up to receive refugees from Vietnam.

The family stayed there for about two months, until one of his father’s friends helped them resettle in Los Angeles.

From nothing, the family started again. His father, who had majored in English literature and served as a senior officer, found work as an armed security guard, while Luong’s mother worked in a fast food restaurant. Luong’s older sisters worked, too, but when one was robbed at gunpoint while working at a Hollywood gas station, Luong’s father decided all his children were going to college.

Growing up in a tough Los Angeles neighborhood, Luong said he and his family viewed USC as an elite institution, accessible only to the children of the privileged.

“Most of us had our eye on the state schools, so although I applied to USC, I never really thought I would be able to go there.”

Luong initially considered joining the Marine Corps to become an infantryman like his father. However, a chance encounter with a Reserve Officers’ Training Corps (ROTC) instructor at USC changed his life.

“He was an airborne-qualified sergeant major and I was enamored by the fact he was a paratrooper because that’s what I wanted to be. Plus, he had served in Vietnam.”

When the instructor told Luong about ROTC scholarships, the young man listened.







_BG Viet Luong, pinning on ceremony. Left to Right: LTG Mark Milley, Commanding General, III Corps; Minh Albano, sister; Kim (pink), wife; BG Luong; Minh Jacqueline Luong, sister; Brandon, second child._


*A bold move*

In 1983, Luong was accepted at USC with a full ROTC scholarship.

“It was a bold move to go to USC,” he said. “I chose USC not only for its legacy of academic excellence, but also because of how its alumni have fared in Southern California.”

At USC Dornsife, Luong majored in biological sciences, graduating in 1987.

“It might not be the major you would expect, but being a science major taught me to think critically,” he said. “I can cut through a lot of fluff and get to the root of the problem, and that has been one of my greatest strengths in my career.

“The outstanding experience I had at USC Dornsife, academically as well as socially, and being able to deal with some pretty high-achieving people taught me how to seek out success and step out of my comfort zone.”

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> What a stupid idea to deploy fighers in airports near Sino-Vietnam border ... thank you very much, anyways missiles flying much faster than jet taking off.


well, I don´t think we will let the airports unprotected. a missile shield, with s-300 for example, is a must. I would assume the idea behind building the airports close to China is to put your missile and other military installations within the striking distance of our fighter jets.

s-300

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## Viet

more from s-300







































ready to fire 
does anyone want to test VN air defence?

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## Mokaman

cnleio said:


> What a stupid idea to deploy fighers in airports near Sino-Vietnam border ... thank you very much, anyways missiles flying much faster than jet taking off.



Who say those airports will have jetfighters? The northern border is a mountainous area, Im pretty sure the main purpose is for logistic reasons (the same reason behind those Chinese new airports on the tiny Spratly islands...logistic). It all good in peace time but in conflict time it another story , it doesn't take a genius to know that those airports will be the first to go in fire...So @cnleio you are a genius, congrats!!!



yugocrosrb95 said:


> You are simply further proving my point that you are uninformed and spreading misinformation, it is because you aren't reading carefully nor are you paying attention to details at all, Brazil's deal does not involve Gripen NG alone at all and people like you claimed what you are claming now because they didn't pay attention to detail.
> 
> Brazil's deal involves production of Gripen NG, training their engineers, technology transfer, improving and implementing Brazilian technology, facilities/factories for local production of Gripen NG in Brazil, maintainance for Gripen NG until 2050, etc...
> 
> 
> 
> Only SU-35 and SU-37 can generate enough power for utilize full potential of Ibris-E radar, using it on SU-30's is a waste because it would have identical to the best radar available for SU-30's
> 
> 
> 
> I am aware of that, but I atleast check multiple sources, I pay attention to detail and compile the information like bullet points and such for understanding the context of the information...
> 
> 
> 
> You have short memory.
> 
> Vietnam needs to upgrade or replace L-39 Albatross trainer/ground attack jet, they could arrange local assembly and even produce some parts, it is in interest of Vietnam's goverment and military to locally produce military equipment as much as possible.
> 
> If lets say Vietnam manages to aquire all necessary machinery, tools and documents for Soko Super Galeb G4 and give funds to Serbs to reinitiate G4 upgrade program which adds radar and other improvements. Such a jet would be good and cheap for ground attack and with radar against helicopters and maybe anti-ship if it can carry RBS 15.



Before using L39 for ground support, you need to control the airspace, which I don't think Viet Nam could do it against PLA. The Syrian airforce are using them right now for ground support and they are falling down like pigeons from ground fire (heavy machine guns and some obsolete MANPAD). Those L39 will have zero chance against a well-equipped and modern army. The best and cheapest way for VPA is to use the shovel and dig hole & trenches and buy tons of MANPADS and JAVELINS-types, fight a dirty war and forget about those expensive aircrafts and the ground support from air. And the VPA infantry doctrine and training doesn't rely much on air support, they more into ground support fire from artillery, missiles and mortars

By the way, we all know those European jetfighters are freaking expensive. Just look how many and which countries in the world operate them. They are few and they are all rich countries

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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> Who say those airports will have jetfighters? The northern border is a mountainous area, Im pretty sure the main purpose is for logistic reasons (the same reason behind those Chinese new airports on the tiny Spratly islands...logistic). It all good in peace time but in conflict time it another story , it doesn't take a genius to know that those airports will be the first to go in fire...So @cnleio you are a genius, congrats!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Before using L39 for ground support, you need to control the airspace, which I don't think Viet Nam could do it against PLA. The Syrian airforce are using them right now for ground support and they are falling down like pigeons from ground fire (heavy machine guns and some obsolete MANPAD). Those L39 will have zero chance against a well-equipped and modern army. The best and cheapest way for VPA is to use the shovel and dig hole & trenches and buy tons of MANPADS and JAVELINS-types, fight a dirty war and forget about those expensive aircrafts and the ground support from air. And the VPA infantry doctrine and training doesn't rely much on air support, they more into ground support fire from artillery, missiles and mortars
> 
> By the way, we all know those European jetfighters are freaking expensive. Just look how many and which countries in the world operate them. They are few and they are all rich countries



I think you are right about those airports being used for logistic reasons, Its the only thing that makes sense.

And certainly totally right about the L39, it would be suicidal to use those planes (or helicopters) at the front lines where the chinese will deploy massive air defense systems and will certainly have air superiority. The best strategy for Vietnam is to develop a strong air defense system as it is doing. Vietnam is also setting up a radar network optimized to detect stealth fighters and considering that Vietnam is very experienced when it comes to multilayer air defense systems, that should be enough. Can't do much more than that when dealing with a superior enemy right next door to you. Take the hits as they come, be tough and bleed them until they are not willing to pay the cost anymore. It worked against the French and Americans, it should work against china.


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## Carlosa

*Who Will Lead Vietnam?*

*Who Will Lead Vietnam? | The Diplomat
*
Between January 20 and 28, Vietnam’s ruling Communist Party is scheduled to convene its 12th national congress. The Party congress is to Vietnam in some sense what the presidential election is to the United States: It decides who the country’s next leaders will be.

But there are some very significant differences between the Vietnamese and American systems. In the United States, the president is elected by members of the Electoral College who are in turn elected by millions of voters. In Vietnam, it is the delegates of the National Congress who elect the Central Committee, which then elects the Party general secretary (the country’s supreme leader) and the Politburo members (the country’s collective leadership). But even the congress delegates will have very limited choices. Usually the outgoing Central Committee will select the next Party chief complete with the next Politburo, the next prime minister, the next state president, the next National Assembly chair, and the next cabinet members. The outgoing Central Committee also assembles a list of candidates from which the congress can form the next Central Committee.

In the United States, you don’t know who will be in the government until you know who the president is. In Vietnam, the order is reversed. The most consequential question is answered last, and the least important first. Thus, you only find out who the next Party chief is in the last moments before the Party congress, but you can be more certain about the new cabinet’s members much earlier.

Although the next government will be formally selected by a new National Assembly that is to be elected the coming May, most of the ministries are already fairly clear on who their next minister will be. According to diplomatic sources in Hanoi, the Defense Ministry will get a new boss in the person of the present head of the Vietnam People’s Army General Political Directorate, Ngo Xuan Lich. The Public Security Ministry will also change ministers, with To Lam, one of the present deputy ministers, slated to be the new minister. Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh will remain in his current job. By the time of the 13th Central Committee Plenum in late December 2015, the most likely scenario also foresaw current Public Security Minister Tran Dai Quang becoming the next Party boss of Ho Chi Minh City and current Chief of the VCP Central Propaganda Commission Dinh The Huynh the new Party boss of Hanoi.

The top four posts – Party chief, prime minister, state president, and National Assembly chair – were to be decided at the VCP Central Committee’s 14th plenum, which took place early this week. The pool of candidates for these highest positions is limited, however, because they must be in the current Politburo and most of the current Politburo members will retire at the 12th congress. According to a rule that has been in place for years, the age limit for a Politburo member to stay into a next term is 65. Ten of the current 16 Politburo members will be older than 65 years at the time of the 12th congress. The 14th Plenum was to make decision about the exceptions to this rule. Basically the question was, who among the current top four – Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, State President Truong Tan Sang, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, and National Assembly Chair Nguyen Sinh Hung – would stay.

The strongest scenario that emerged at the 13th plenum was that Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong would be the only exception to the rule, and he would stay for two more years in his current job, which then would be turned over to either Tran Dai Quang or Dinh The Huynh. The new state president would be either current Fatherland Front Chairman Nguyen Thien Nhan or current Vice-Chairwoman of the National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan. Ngan and current Deputy Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc would be the candidates for the prime minister’s post. And the one among the three who did not get the other two posts would be the new National Assembly chair. At the 14th plenum, the Central Committee reportedly voted for Trong to remain general secretary, Quang to become the new state president, Phuc to be the next prime minister, and Ngan to be the new National Assembly chair. (In another important development, the 14th plenum also endorsed the Trans-Pacific Partnership, making certain that Vietnam will sign and ratify the pact.)

*Tense Contest*

The leadership equation recommended by the 14th plenum will remain just that – a recommendation – until the 12th Party Congress makes the final decision. Until then, the toughest question, “who will be the next Party chief,” cannot be viewed as resolved. This question has been the trickiest one for every congress for decades. But the hallmark of the 12th congress next week is that the race for the highest position in the country is the most tense ever. The leading contenders for the post are the incumbent general secretary, Trong and the prime minister, Dung. Dung is extremely determined to become the next general secretary, and Trong is equally determined to deny him the job. What’s more, the two are polar opposites. At their core, Trong is a mandarin, while Dung is a capitalist; one is loyal to his principles, the other to his profits. This personality contrast is one of the reasons for the severity of their clash.

These characteristics should not imply, as many outside observers often assume, that Trong is pro-China and anti-Western while Dung is pro-U.S. and anti-China. The reality is far more nuanced and complex. In fact, neither Trong nor Dung can be described as either soft or tough on China; each combines softness with toughness in his own way.

One of Dung’s best remembered statements is his heroiccomment on Vietnam’s relations with China, “We do not trade sovereignty and territorial integrity for a quixotic peace and a dependent friendship.” During the HYSY-981 oil rig crisis of 2014, Dung advocated launching legal action against China in the South China Sea. More recently, Dung was the only Vietnamese leader to offer Chinese President Xi Jinping a full hug when the latter visited Hanoi in early November 2015. Perhaps to reward this and other offers Dung made during that talk, Xi then extended the only invitation he made during the trip to Dung, rather than to his rivals Trong and Sang, to visit China in the future. A veteran watcher of Sino-Vietnamese relations has commented that this signaled the Chinese approval of Dung as the next leader of Vietnam. Some analysts also note that China’s redeployment of the HYSY-981 oil rig near the Vietnamese EEZ and test flights on a newly built airstrip in the Spratlys, both in the time period between the 13th end 14th plenums, may help to strengthen Dung’s position in his bid for Vietnam’s top job.

In contrast, Trong’s public comments on Vietnam’s relations with China are remarkable for their dullness. Responding to voters’ concerns about China’s expansion in the South China Sea, Trong said, “We have maintained independence and sovereignty, but we must also resolutely preserve the regime, ensure the leadership role of the Party, maintain a peaceful and stable environment for national construction and development, and maintain friendly relations with other countries, including China.” Behind the scenes, however, Trong made some decisions that can only be viewed as tough on China and soft on the United States. In 2011, he strongly defended the appointment of Pham Binh Minh as the new Foreign Minister, over China’s objections. (Minh is the son of former Foreign Minister Nguyen Co Thach, whose retirement at the 7th VCP congress in 1991 was one of China’s conditions for renormalization between the two countries.) In 2012, Trong threw his support behind the Law of the Sea of Vietnam, passage of which had been delayed for years due to Chinese opposition. More recently, in 2015, Trong yielded to U.S. insistence and made a major concession to allow independent labor unions, paving the way for Vietnam to sign the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

*Party vs. Government?*

Many outside observers view the political infighting in Vietnam as a rivalry between the Party and the government, with Trong commanding the Party camp and Dung the government bloc. Again, the reality is not so simple. Within the framework of a party-state, there is significant fluidity between party and government structures. This is even more true with the “circulation of cadres” _(luân chuyển cán bộ)_, a practice copied from China, where senior officials have to rise through different positions in the government bureaucracy and the Party apparatus both at the central and provincial levels. Trong and Dung, through their position at the apex of the two structures, can mobilize their respective apparatus to a certain extent, but their real power rests on networks that cut across the Party-government border. For example, of the five deputy prime ministers, only one – Hoang Trung Hai – is Dung’s ally; none of the other four – Nguyen Xuan Phuc, Vu Van Ninh, Vu Duc Dam, and Pham Binh Minh – is in the Dung camp. At the same time, many of the Party bosses in the provinces and the central Party apparatus are allies of Dung, while Trong also has his allies in the central and provincial Government bureaucracies.

Nor does the ideological frame of conservatives vs. reformers seem to fit the Trong-Dung contest. Whether Dung is a reformer is a contentious issue. Supporters believe that he promotes institutional reform with more market and less state. Dung’s 2014 New Year address sounded like a reformist manifesto. Authored by former Trade Minister Truong Dinh Tuyen, a credentialed reformer, the address contends that institutional reform and democratization are the two key motors of development and urges the Party to “hold firm the banner of democracy.” The main tenets of the address, such as “the core of_doi moi_ is democratization,” are no different than those advocated for years by Nguyen Trung, another credentialed reformer. (Trung is the author of then Prime Minister Vo Van Kiet’s 1995 memo, which also outlined a reformist platform, and for which Kiet was attacked by conservatives.) Critics, however, argue that there is a big gap between Dung’s rhetoric and his action. They believe that Dung is willing to sacrifice the national interest for his own personal interest and the interests of his family and cronies. His name has been associated with the default of large state-owned conglomerates Vinashin and Vinalines, which caused losses of billions of dollars.

Trong meanwhile is at best a moderate with some conservative inclinations and at worst a conservative out of touch with reality. His insistence on regime preservation, a leading role for the state in the economy, and other conservative ideas have obstructed reform. Yet Trong has also promoted many reformers. The viewsof Vuong Dinh Hue, a former Finance Minister who was brought into the Party apparatus by Trong to head the Party’s Central Economic Commission, are not too far from those of Truong Dinh Tuyen. Another prominent protégé of Trong is the late Nguyen Ba Thanh, the charismatic Party boss of Da Nang who was brought in to lead the Party’s central anti-corruption commission. Thanh was, as a Western investor has observed, “the nearest Vietnam has to a Lee Kuan Yew.” Trong’s fierce opposition to Dung’s bid for power has also attracted many reformers who view Trong’s leadership as the more viable alternative to a future full of crony capitalism, corruption, and more authoritarianism.

Vietnam is at its most critical juncture since the end of the Cold War 26 years ago. But its ruling elite is faced with an impossible choice. Ultimately, though, the best hope for those who wish to see Vietnam become the next Asian tiger may lie not in the choice that is made, in the unintended consequence of the political clash it entails.

_Alexander L. Vuving is a Professor at the Daniel K. Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies. The views expressed in this article are his own and do not reflect those of his employers._

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung Sidelined at Party Congress
*
Vietnam Right Now, News Report, Posted: Jan 15, 2016

http://newamericamedia.org/2016/01/...uyen-tan-dung-sidelined-at-party-congress.php

State media have reported that the Central Committee of the Communist Party has reached “an overwhelming consensus” on the country’s new leadership.

Unconfirmed reports indicated that the long time favourite to succeed as party boss, the two-term prime minister Nguyen Tan Dung, had been sidelined after a bruising political confrontation.

The reports, which surfaced on social media and in the foreign press, said that the veteran conservative and current general-secretary of the party, Nguyen Phu Trong, would continue in his post for at least another year.

Whatever the decision, the new leadership must first be ratified at the 12th Party Congress which opens next week.

Some observers suggest that it would be unwise to discount the ambitious Mr Dung until the results are officially announced.

*Long seen as favourite*

The Vietnam News Agency reported no names when it announced the conclusions from the Central Committee meeting.

It quoted Mr Trong as saying that the participants “discussed and reviewed a report on personnel preparation at the meeting in a democratic and responsible manner.”

Radio Free Asia quoted unidentified sources as saying that Mr Trong would stay in his post for half of a five year term.

It said the new president would be the current internal security chief, Tran Dai Quang, while the deputy prime minister, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, would become prime minister.

Mr Dung has long been seen as the clear favourite to emerge as general-secretary.

During his two terms as prime minister he has presented himself as more open, dynamic and reform oriented than his rivals. He is closely associated with the Trans-Pacific Partnership and closer relations with the United States, at the expense of ties with Beijing.
*
Family’s wealth*

“A coalition has emerged around the general secretary and state president to block Nguyen Tan Dung,” said Carl Thayer, an expert on Vietnamese politics and director of the Thayer Consultancy.

He said that Dung’s opponents appeared to have raised questions about his family’s wealth.

The prime minister has come under attack from his opponents in recent years over his economic management of the country and widely circulated allegations of corruption.

Many analysts thought, however, that he had overcome the challenge and built a strong enough power base on the Central Committee.

If Mr Trong’s victory is confirmed, analysts expect Vietnam to continue on a cautious path.

Mr Trong has shown signs of adopting a more pragmatic, and less rigidly ideological approach, in recent months.

His visit to Washington in July last year was seen as an important signal of his new flexibility.

However, proponents of political and economic reform and much closer ties with Washington will be deeply disappointed by the result if it is endorsed by the party congress.


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> well, I don´t think we will let the airports unprotected. a missile shield, with s-300 for example, is a must. I would assume the idea behind building the airports close to China is to put your missile and other military installations within the striking distance of our fighter jets.
> 
> s-300


A mission shield maybe useful for several missiles incoming ... not 100% intercept dozens flying to the airport. Building airport too close to sino-vietnam border equal to put ur jets under observation by PLA air-defence radars deployed in GuangXi also under fire range of HQ-9 LRSAM / HQ-16 MRSAM when they just take off, just as i said the jet never faster than 4-mach missile. BTW the mission shield can't easily intercept MLRS rockets and DF ballistic missiles launched from GuangXi (> 200km range), if the runway near border destroyed those jets just become static targets on the ground.

On the other hand, the S-300 not some secret weapon for China also exported S-300MPU from Russia ... PLA is familiar with these performances of Su27, Su30, Kilo, S-300, Russian weapon not the threat for China.


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## Aqsuperman

2 hand 2 guns :v 1 is a TAR and 1 is C-TAR


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I think you are right about those airports being used for logistic reasons, Its the only thing that makes sense.
> 
> And certainly totally right about the L39, it would be suicidal to use those planes (or helicopters) at the front lines where the chinese will deploy massive air defense systems and will certainly have air superiority. The best strategy for Vietnam is to develop a strong air defense system as it is doing. Vietnam is also setting up a radar network optimized to detect stealth fighters and considering that Vietnam is very experienced when it comes to multilayer air defense systems, that should be enough. Can't do much more than that when dealing with a superior enemy right next door to you. Take the hits as they come, be tough and bleed them until they are not willing to pay the cost anymore. It worked against the French and Americans, it should work against china.


True. We lack of many things, and of course the money to acquire hardware needed for a modern army. Peace can be maintained and many things would be easier in defense if we had a military budget as Japan. Or allying with the superpower America. Or building a Great Wall along the border to China. At least 100 m high.

Anyway, I don't think we must stop our economic development and spend all the money on weapons. we needn't to kill them 100 times. One time is enough. Or we will do as we used to do to them in the past, letting them to keep in their memory: we chop them off one arm or one leg, letting them to feel the pain for a while.

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> A mission shield maybe useful for several missiles incoming ... not 100% intercept dozens flying to the airport. Building airport too close to sino-vietnam border equal to put ur jets under observation by PLA air-defence radars deployed in GuangXi also under fire range of HQ-9 LRSAM / HQ-16 MRSAM when they just take off, just as i said the jet never faster than 4-mach missile. BTW the mission shield can't easily intercept MLRS rockets and DF ballistic missiles launched from GuangXi (> 200km range), if the runway near border destroyed those jets just become static targets on the ground.


if we are in the range of your artillery, then you are in ours.


cnleio said:


> On the other hand, the S-300 not some secret weapon for China also exported S-300MPU from Russia ... PLA is familiar with these performances of Su27, Su30, Kilo, S-300, Russian weapon not the threat for China.


you forget the second factor: the person behind the hardware. if I recall, China was the first country in 14 century, that invented gunpowder and developed firearms. and if we followed your logic, VN would never have acquired the technology and developed gunpowder weapons. because your logic is: you are the first and know too much about the weapon. oh yes, we would still have using swords today.

in case you don´t know: we have imported gunpowder technology from China and developed our firearms since 14 century, using the weapon system very effective against Champa.

There is another delusional taiwanese poster (his name has something to do with a planet, I believe) that from time to time posts a list how Chinese kilo submarines are far more superior to ours, because China knows the sub in and out since decades. I assume he wants to convince us to give up the submarine fleet. High on delusion.

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## Viet

*Satellites*

Hanoi on January 12. Preparing the launch of putting three more remote sensing satellites, VNREDSat-2, LOTUSat-1 and 2 into the orbit. Representatives of the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology and the Radio Frequency Department shake hands after exchanging a cooperation agreement. these satellites can make high resolution images on the earth surface. interesting not only good for civil but defence purposes.









*LOTUSat 1, 2 *are based on the japanese ASNARO 2 satellite. The first satellite will be built in Japan by NEC, while the second is to be built in Vietnam. X-band Radar _(12.5 - 8 GHz)_, Imaging radar (SAR), powered by 2 deployable solar arrays, batteries. Vegetation land accuracy.











*VNREDSat-2 *is likely to be built by Airbus Defence, like the first one: *VNREDSat-1*: weight 130-kg, sun-synchronous 700 km over the earth surface, taking images with a resolution of 2.5 meters in multispectral mode (4 bands).






_Red River, Hanoi (Vietnam) _






_Melbourne (Australia)_

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## Viet

that is the news I hoped for: _Dang Ngoc Tung, _the chairman of the Vietnam Labor Confederation, and National Assembly delegate suggests: 

enlarging the runway on the Spratly island
building shelters, houses, logistics service for fishermen (and citizen)
raising fish

constructing hotels for tourism

populating the entire Spratly (Truong Sa) Archipelago
Lawmakers suggest civilizing Truong Sa Archipelago - News VietNamNet

it´s about time to respond.

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## Aqsuperman

New guns , same magazine and ammo


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## Mokaman

cnleio said:


> A mission shield maybe useful for several missiles incoming ... not 100% intercept dozens flying to the airport. Building airport too close to sino-vietnam border equal to put ur jets under observation by PLA air-defence radars deployed in GuangXi also under fire range of HQ-9 LRSAM / HQ-16 MRSAM when they just take off, just as i said the jet never faster than 4-mach missile. BTW the mission shield can't easily intercept MLRS rockets and DF ballistic missiles launched from GuangXi (> 200km range), if the runway near border destroyed those jets just become static targets on the ground.
> 
> On the other hand, the S-300 not some secret weapon for China also exported S-300MPU from Russia ... PLA is familiar with these performances of Su27, Su30, Kilo, S-300, Russian weapon not the threat for China.




Hey genius @cnleio why you still think the VPA will deploy jetfighters near China border? We all know a missile shied can't intercept 100% incoming flying objects, another genius comment from you...Israeli Iron Dome is at most 80% success rate. But why Viet Nam will waste it little resource to shot down missiles? If Viet Nam can take that 7 millions tons of bombs during the Vietnam war, it can surely take some Chinese bombs. Viet nam airforce is no match against PLA airforce, but Viet Nam will use the same strategy against USA....have a huge multi layer of AAA & missiles and have jetfighters lay low (far away from the border, of course!!!) and go out once in a while fight enemy airplanes (just to remind PLA that extra threat)... Ha Noi during Viet Nam war was the most heavily anti-aircraft city in the history of the world. So Vietnam have tons of experience in anti-aircraft defenses and the use of jetfighters during conflict. Anyway, PLA will never invade Viet Nam,because it's way too costy for too little gains. Those mountainous on the border will be a deadly trap to any troop. So we all know China want is to invade those Spratly islands and sit on them like a fait accompli and protect their gains. By the way, PLA may be familar with the SU, S300 and kilo but the real problem is to find where VPA deploy them. So to say those weapons are no threat to China is just another genius comment from you, congrats @cnleio!!

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## William Hung



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## Aepsilons

Viet said:


> *Satellites*
> 
> Hanoi on January 12. Preparing the launch of putting three more remote sensing satellites, VNREDSat-2, LOTUSat-1 and 2 into the orbit. Representatives of the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology and the Radio Frequency Department shake hands after exchanging a cooperation agreement. these satellites can make high resolution images on the earth surface. interesting not only good for civil but defence purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *LOTUSat 1, 2 *are based on the japanese ASNARO 2 satellite. The first satellite will be built in Japan by NEC, while the second is to be built in Vietnam. X-band Radar _(12.5 - 8 GHz)_, Imaging radar (SAR), powered by 2 deployable solar arrays, batteries. Vegetation land accuracy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *VNREDSat-2 *is likely to be built by Airbus Defence, like the first one: *VNREDSat-1*: weight 130-kg, sun-synchronous 700 km over the earth surface, taking images with a resolution of 2.5 meters in multispectral mode (4 bands).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Red River, Hanoi (Vietnam) _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Melbourne (Australia)_





IMPRESSIVE!!

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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> IMPRESSIVE!!



Just another element coming together for the Surveillance, targeting and air defense network. Step by step.



Mokaman said:


> Hey genius @cnleio why you still think the VPA will deploy jetfighters near China border? We all know a missile shied can't intercept 100% incoming flying objects, another genius comment from you...Israeli Iron Dome is at most 80% success rate. But why Viet Nam will waste it little resource to shot down missiles? If Viet Nam can take that 7 millions tons of bombs during the Vietnam war, it can surely take some Chinese bombs. Viet nam airforce is no match against PLA airforce, but Viet Nam will use the same strategy against USA....have a huge multi layer of AAA & missiles and have jetfighters lay low (far away from the border, of course!!!) and go out once in a while fight enemy airplanes (just to remind PLA that extra threat)... Ha Noi during Viet Nam war was the most heavily anti-aircraft city in the history of the world. So Vietnam have tons of experience in anti-aircraft defenses and the use of jetfighters during conflict. Anyway, PLA will never invade Viet Nam,because it's way too costy for too little gains. Those mountainous on the border will be a deadly trap to any troop. So we all know China want is to invade those Spratly islands and sit on them like a fait accompli and protect their gains. By the way, PLA may be familar with the SU, S300 and kilo but the real problem is to find where VPA deploy them. So to say those weapons are no threat to China is just another genius comment from you, congrats @cnleio!!



Well said man. Vietnam is concentrating its resources in the areas where it can make a difference and anyway, not all defensive elements are familiar to China. The upcoming deployment of Spyder and SAMP/T will be new systems for china to deal with and they are very effective.

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## Aepsilons

Carlosa said:


> Just another element coming together for the Surveillance, targeting and air defense network. Step by step.

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## Viet

*Race around the world*


if nobody minds, I continue posting about the race around the world. 40,000 miles in length, the clipper race takes 11 months to complete, making it the world’s longest ocean adventure. and VN as sponsor of danang yacht and host sea port, is virtually a part of the race.

and now...the moment has come, the race starts for Vietnam. 4,310 nautical miles. Starting point *Airlie Beach* (Australia), estimated to take around 31 days, expected arrival: 17-21 February at Da Nang. This race will test the navigation skills of the teams as they try to work out the best route through the remote communities in Papua New Guinea and into the Pacific Ocean for the first time, before heading to the South China Sea. On the approach to *Vietnam*, the fleet will take advantage of the north east monsoon winds.

carlosa, don´t forget to take some pictures when the yacht arrives at your home town 


http://www.mysailing.com.au/offshore/clipper-fleet-leaves-airlie-beach-bound-for-Vietnam

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## Mokaman

William Hung said:


>



Hey champion @William Hung ! What your point of putting that shitty J10 pic in a Viet Nam forum? Are you trying to intimidate people in this forum with that zero battle-tested J10,[/USER]!



Carlosa said:


> Just another element coming together for the Surveillance, targeting and air defense network. Step by step.
> 
> 
> 
> Well said man. Vietnam is concentrating its resources in the areas where it can make a difference and anyway, not all defensive elements are familiar to China. The upcoming deployment of Spyder and SAMP/T will be new systems for china to deal with and they are very effective.


Exactly @Carlosa. Viet Nam is doing a pretty good job so far with it limited resources. By the way, I use to read (only) in the old forum, you and silent knight were pretty good. I only start t be active in this forum because a lot of Chinese guys with zero military experience try to say a lot of crappy stuff and intimidate people.

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## Mokaman

My bad, it a freaky Eurofighter....they look so alike, Sorry @William Hung . I though you are one of those Chinese guys that always try to provoke us. Im not so good with planes, more into infantry stuffs


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## William Hung

Mokaman said:


> My bad, it a freaky Eurofighter....they look so alike, Sorry @William Hung . Im not so good with planes, more into infantry stuffs



Hahah no problem.

I would like to know...those devices that see through walls, that Vietnam just bought last year...is that for the military or civilian police force?


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## Aqsuperman

See through wall ?............like x-ray or something ? The police do have this CornerShot to see and shoot around the wall though


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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> Hey champion @William Hung ! What your point of putting that shitty J10 pic in a Viet Nam forum? Are you trying to intimidate people in this forum with that zero battle-tested J10,[/USER]!
> 
> 
> Exactly @Carlosa. Viet Nam is doing a pretty good job so far with it limited resources. By the way, I use to read (only) in the old forum, you and silent knight were pretty good. I only start t be active in this forum because a lot of Chinese guys with zero military experience try to say a lot of crappy stuff and intimidate people.



Thank you man. I very much like your opinions also. Yeah, its too bad about the old MP forum, there were a lot of high caliber people there.

The truth is, Vietnam is doing great considering the limited resources, it gets a lot of bang for the dollar. The only area where things are not working out is surface ships. Between the debacle of the old programs that got canceled and the never ending delays to get Russian ships and the suspension of the Sigma program, its taking forever to get a decent fleet.

I don't know, just my opinion, but I think the only type of ship that is worth to deploy in the islands would be small but fast missile boats and it has to be in a decent number (anything bigger would be dead on arrival in case of conflict), but I don't see any news on boats like that for Vietnam. I do know Vietnam will buy some fast boats from India, but I don't know if they will carry missiles. What's your take on that? The reason why I say small, fast missile boats is because they are easy and quick to deploy and move in and out. Difficult to detect but packing a decent missile punch, they can do some serious damage. If they get lost, the expense is low.

USA did a lot of war games simulating the threat of those Iranian missile boats attacking one of their carrier battle groups in the Persian gulf (very small boats carrying just 2 missiles each and very, very fast). All those war games and simulations always ended up the same way, those missile boats sink the American ships. I think there are good lessons from Vietnam there.


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> See through wall ?............like x-ray or something ? The police do have this CornerShot to see and shoot around the wall though



This one...well not exactly “see through” but detects and locates people behind walls:

*GPR-DETECTOR RO-900*

*RO-900 is a small, portable device designed to locate people hidden behind reinforced concrete, brick and multi ply walls. The device allows its operators to quickly receive crucial information about location, distance and movement of a given target. *

It also can detect someone breathing, which makes it especially useful during search and rescue operations; for example in the case of an earthquake or other destructive natural disasters.

The "RO-900's portable and miniature size makes it highly functional and extremely easy to operate in almost in any situation. 






*Features*

・ Locates people behind several reinforced concrete walls of up to 0.6 meters thick and

multi‐layer building constructions

・ Detects movement of people through several walls or/and other types of

obstacles in real time

・ up to 14 meter detection range

・ User‐friendly interface

*DETECTION RANGE*
Detection range by move through brick walls of 0,4m thick - not less than 11 m

Detection range by breath through brick walls of 0,3m thick - up to 5m






Both Vietnam and China have bought them.

How much does it cost? I want to buy one in case I ever get a cute girl housemate.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam to Pick Leaders as Loyalty to Neighbor China Fades*
*http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-17/vietnam-to-pick-new-leaders-as-loyalty-fades-to-neighbor-china?cmpid=yhoo.headline&ref=yfp*





When Vietnam starts the process of picking its new leadership this month, the Communist Party is set for a tense behind-the-scenes debate: Opt for officials who want to preserve ties with neighbor China, or for those who would steer the country closer to the U.S.

The once-in-five-years political transition comes as the country finds itself balancing its Communist loyalty and economic dependence on China with increasing concern about that nation’s behavior over islands they both claim in the South China Sea. The tension has seen Vietnam gravitate toward the U.S., with the warming of military ties and Vietnam’s involvement in the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact.

So far there’s little public indication who will end up in what post in the shuffling that takes place with the party congress starting Jan. 20. Political jockeying in Vietnam, which occasionally spills onto the Internet as candidates disparage each other via anonymous or surrogate postings, remains largely opaque.

One of the biggest challenges for the new leadership will be how far, or fast, to boost ties with the U.S.

“This is a real political brawl between the conservatives and the reformers,” said Zachary Abuza, a professor at the National War College in Washington, DC who has studied Vietnam’s leadership for two decades. “There are debates over strategies on how to deal with Chinese aggression. There are people in the party who are still fearful of antagonizing China.”

The new leaders, no matter which camp they are in, are not expected to veer dramatically in either direction. It could “just be turning of the dial a little more in one direction than the other,” said Raymond Burghardt, U.S. ambassador to Vietnam between 2001 and 2004.

The central committee will choose the next party general secretary in secret during the nine-day congress. Party members aligned with the new general secretary will be voted on by the National Assembly in May or June for posts including prime minister and members of cabinet.

Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, who has shown some willingness to confront China, is in the running for general party secretary against incumbent Nguyen Phu Trong, who is seeking to extend his term and represents leaders preferring a more conciliatory stance toward China, according to officials familiar with the discussions who asked not to be identified as the talks are private. Dung and Trong’s offices declined to comment.

“There have been a lot of rumors posted online, which reveals quite a bit of infighting,” said Tuong Vu, an associate professor of political science at the University of Oregon. “It’s hard for anyone to say anything about the outcome.”

Relations between Vietnam and China, which fought a brief border war in 1979, ruptured in the summer of 2014 after a Chinese oil rig was placed off Vietnam’s coast in the disputed Paracel islands. This month Chinese planes have repeatedly landed on a new airstrip on islands it reclaimed in the Spratly area, triggering protests from Vietnam.

Vietnam’s foreign policy is being shaped by “the assertiveness of China,” said Le Dang Doanh, an economist and former government adviser in Hanoi. “The pressure from China will be tremendous. The escalations will go on.”

Still, China is Vietnam’s largest trading partner and the two countries’ leaders have a shared commitment to communist ideology, while some Vietnamese officials remain suspicious of the intentions of the U.S., their former enemy.

Dung, injured as a medic with the Vietcong guerrilla force in South Vietnam that fought the U.S., played a pivotal role in the development of closer U.S.-Vietnam postwar relations.

*Security Ties*
“We have been able to work pretty well with him,” Burghardt said of Dung. “He seems to understand the importance of our economic and security ties. So I think for us that should be a fairly comfortable outcome.”

During the oil rig controversy, Dung ordered Vietnamese coast guard and fishing boats to harass the Chinese flotilla, stirring pride at home, said David Brown, a retired diplomat who served in the U.S. embassy in the former South Vietnam between 1965 and 1969. The more conservative members of the politburo eventually followed Dung’s lead in criticizing China.

“Hanoi has repositioned further from Beijing and closer to Washington, but in neither power’s pocket,” Brown said. “They will do that as long as it’s useful.”

*Party Secretary*
The key will be whether Trong gets selected to stay on as party secretary for at least part of the next five-year term, given Dung’s interest in the post, said Abuza from the National War College, a view echoed by Carlyle Thayer, an emeritus professor and Vietnam expert at the Australian Defence Force Academy in Canberra. 

China would be pleased if Trong retains his role, Abuza said. Still, “Trong has evolved a lot,” he said. “When he was elected everybody said, ‘Oh my God, he is the pro-China guy’. But he endorsed TPP. He went to the White House and met Obama. He invited Obama to visit Vietnam.”

After Trong met President Barack Obama in July, he said Vietnam appreciated U.S. interest in the situation in the South China Sea.

Still, Vietnam is approaching U.S. ties with care. In 2014 the U.S. partially lifted a ban on the sale of weapons to Vietnam, allowing transfers of nonlethal arms. Vietnam has been slow to submit orders.

“I think they are very torn,” former ambassador Burghardt said. “Part of it is the inherent Vietnamese cautiousness about how it positions itself within what they call the triangle -- the U.S., China and Vietnam.”


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> We are going around the definitions of what an aircraft price is: flyaway or full price. Both versions of the price are correct.
> 
> You say my number is not correct because its 3 years old even that it comes from Saab? Show me the numbers from Saab. I said all along 80 million fully loaded. Your Brazilian guy said 50 million plus subsystems, so you have not showed what the actual fly away price is including everything for the version and features that were bought. Its nonsense to expect that the price will drop from 80 million to 50 million in 3 years. Since when that guy is a credible reference and without details of those subsystems?
> 
> No, I don't have to say in the first place that the price does not include weapons, anybody that understands anything knows that aircraft prices don't include weapons, you just want to avoid admitting a mistake and you go around the bushes, understandable for young kids.
> 
> Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's, that's full price including what is usually included in those deals. If you want to argue about price definitions, then you have to first specify what price are you talking about, both versions of the price are correct and both are used, flyaway and full price.
> 
> A tactical ground support aircraft will get used to soften up positions assuming that it can survive. You don't want to understand that that type of aircraft can't survive in a conflict with china. By the way, for that role, Vietnam will get the Yak-130 so the one that is speculating with those ideas is you.
> 
> *I know for a fact that the export price of MIG-35 was offered at 35 million* because I read it more than once and I can find the articles if I dedicate some time to it.
> 
> My speculation about Egypt's price is reasonable, the arabs always pay top price.
> 
> How the article that says Sweden pays 150 million proves me wrong?
> 
> If you claim that my information is outdated, then show me more recent information that is credible.
> 
> I'm done with this topic, I have a plane to catch.


we pay $60 million per SU-30, MK2 variant. weapons not included. $35 million per MIG-35 sounds too good to me.

‘Lair’ of Vietnam’s ‘King Cobra’ fighter jets – Conclusion: Dedicated caretakers


supersonic jet SU-30

amazing: 8 technicians are working to install a bomb. a typical procedure?






assisting pilots in putting on emergency parachutes before take off.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> we pay $60 million per SU-30, MK2 variant. weapons not included. $35 million per MIG-35 sounds too good to me.
> 
> ‘Lair’ of Vietnam’s ‘King Cobra’ fighter jets – Conclusion: Dedicated caretakers
> 
> 
> supersonic jet SU-30
> 
> amazing: 8 technicians are working to install a bomb. a typical procedure?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> assisting pilots in putting on emergency parachutes before take off.



It actually makes sense because the SU-30 is a much bigger plane, the engines are also much bigger and expensive. The price for MIG-35 is an incentive price, the Russians need to get export orders to get the production line going. That price is probably for a basic version without the 3D engine vector control. I don't know what features are included in that price.


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## Aqsuperman

Current issued Mp-5 of the Mobile Police


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> It actually makes sense because the SU-30 is a much bigger plane, the engines are also much bigger and expensive. The price for MIG-35 is an incentive price, the Russians need to get export orders to get the production line going. That price is probably for a basic version without the 3D engine vector control. I don't know what features are included in that price.


here is what I read:

"the Su-30MK2 is a further improvement to the Su-30MKK with upgraded avionics and maritime strike capabilities. Su-30MKK is a modification of the Sukhoi Su-30, incorporating advanced technology from the Sukhoi Su-35 variant.

Vietnam´s Su-30 is configured as a heavy class, all-weather, long-range supersonic strike fighter. especially as strike maritime missions. Having powerful N-001VEP radar, Kh-31A ramjet supersonic anti-shipping missile, and radar seeker equipped variant of the Kh-59. so the basic mission of our SU-30 is patrolling the eastern front, if necessary, striking enemy aircraft, surface warships and ground installations."

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> here is what I read:
> 
> "the Su-30MK2 is a further improvement to the Su-30MKK with upgraded avionics and maritime strike capabilities. Su-30MKK is a modification of the Sukhoi Su-30, incorporating advanced technology from the Sukhoi Su-35 variant.
> 
> Vietnam´s Su-30 is configured as a heavy class, all-weather, long-range supersonic strike fighter. especially as strike maritime missions. Having powerful N-001VEP radar, Kh-31A ramjet supersonic anti-shipping missile, and radar seeker equipped variant of the Kh-59. so the basic mission of our SU-30 is patrolling the eastern front, if necessary, striking enemy aircraft, surface warships and ground installations."



Yeah, that sounds right, good description.

Yesterday I was reading a lot about the Eurofighter and also read a few comparison articles that compare the Eurofighter against Gripen and SU-30, etc and comparing Gripen NG against those aircraft also.

My take is that the SU-30SM compares nicely with the Eurofighter. There is no need to get the expensive Eurofighter and a whole new logistical chain. Of all the European fighters, the Gripen NG would be the best one for Vietnam, but the big issue there is the American engine.

To get a European aircraft just because of the Meteor missile is not a good idea long term. The Russian jets are currently using the R-77 as the air to air long range missile. The Meteor is better, but the Russians are upgrading the R-77 to version R-77M1 and that one will have a range of 175 km and a much improved AESA radar seeker, so at that point there is no advantage to having the Meteor.

My conclusion is that Vietnam will do well staying with Russian fighter jets, although the Gripen NG is also a nice option.

Just imagine the power of a SU-30MK2 using the R-77M1 missile and later an upgraded radar.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, that sounds right, good description.
> 
> Yesterday I was reading a lot about the Eurofighter and also read a few comparison articles that compare the Eurofighter against Gripen and SU-30, etc and comparing Gripen NG against those aircraft also.
> 
> My take is that the SU-30SM compares nicely with the Eurofighter. There is no need to get the expensive Eurofighter and a whole new logistical chain. Of all the European fighters, the Gripen NG would be the best one for Vietnam, but the big issue there is the American engine.
> 
> To get a European aircraft just because of the Meteor missile is not a good idea long term. The Russian jets are currently using the R-77 as the air to air long range missile. The Meteor is better, but the Russians are upgrading the R-77 to version R-77M1 and that one will have a range of 175 km and a much improved AESA radar seeker, so at that point there is no advantage to having the Meteor.
> 
> My conclusion is that Vietnam will do well staying with Russian fighter jets, although the Gripen NG is also a nice option.
> 
> Just imagine the power of a SU-30MK2 using the R-77M1 missile and later an upgraded radar.


think of different perspective. 90% of VPA military weaponry come from Russia. so the question is, whether or not continue relying on Russia, or do we want to reduce the percentage?

sure, Russia (on paper, and the reality on the ground speaks for it) is a close friend, the most important geostrategic partner. her weaponry is not bad at all, in terms of performance and affordability. though I don´t think of another reason than geopolitics speaking against Russia weaponry. we have TPP as joker on economic front, I believe, as some western reports hint, the army explores the option if there are something similar on defence front line. Acquiring western weaponry is a way to go, isn´t it?

yes and yeah, also, I vote for Gripen NG. the bird can take on most of her opponents. and it is cheaper to buy, maintain and operate. about the issue with the US engine. has the US government lifted ban of weaponry if it is for maritime defence purposes?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> think of different perspective. 90% of VPA military weaponry come from Russia. so the question is, whether or not continue relying on Russia, or do we want to reduce the percentage?
> 
> sure, Russia (on paper, and the reality on the ground speaks for it) is a close friend, the most important geostrategic partner. her weaponry is not bad at all, in terms of performance and affordability. though I don´t think of another reason than geopolitics speaking against Russia weaponry. we have TPP as joker on economic front, I believe, as some western reports hint, the army explores the option if there are something similar on defence front line. Acquiring western weaponry is a way to go, isn´t it?
> 
> yes and yeah, also, I vote for Gripen NG. the bird can take on most of her opponents. and it is cheaper to buy, maintain and operate. about the issue with the US engine. has the US government lifted ban of weaponry if it is for maritime defence purposes?



They can lift the embargo if the aircraft if for maritime purpose, but its a bit of an stretch to see the Gripen just for that, so I don't know. I think it depends on USA seeing some further political opening, but it seems like Dung got sidelined, although the process is not over yet.

Great video of the SU-30MK2


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## Nike

Gripen NG will not available very soon. The fighter is still on development phase, and once it made clear for production, the assembly line is already full for Brazil and Sweden order. At least you must wait till 2022 to getting the very first plane fot your country

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Gripen NG will not available very soon. The fighter is still on development phase, and once it made clear for production, the assembly line is already full for Brazil and Sweden order. At least you must wait till 2022 to getting the very first plane fot your country


we are not talking about replacing 10 jets, but 144 Mikoyan MiG-21 Fishbeds and 38 Sukhoi Su-22 Fitter of the Vietnam Airforce. so some 182 jets in total. I know of sceptical voices here and there, VN is not ready yet for jet assembly and production and so forth. but I´m convinced we can do it. if we never start it, nor try it, we won´t have anything even in 10 or 20 years. how is it if we start from somewhere?

if we add the fleet of L-39 Albatros, that is used as trainer aircraft today, then the number will get bigger. economy of scale. sure, first and foremost, transfer of technology must be acquired, and that is not an easy task. and second, I know what you want to say: money must come from somewhere. we will get Gripen NG if we produce the jet. I know I´m a dreamer.



Carlosa said:


> They can lift the embargo if the aircraft if for maritime purpose, but its a bit of an stretch to see the Gripen just for that, so I don't know. I think it depends on USA seeing some further political opening, nut it seems like Dung got sidelined, although the process is not over yet.
> 
> Great video of the SU-30MK2


from what one reads, it is not decided yet who will win the race and lead VN into the future: the conservatives around Trong or the reformers around Dung? if Dung wins, he will cement the pro West course, increasing VN ties to the United States. we are at a crossroad. where to go?

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## Nike

Viet said:


> we are not talking about replacing 10 jets, but 144 Mikoyan MiG-21 Fishbeds and 38 Sukhoi Su-22 Fitter of the Vietnam Airforce. so some 182 jets in total. I know of sceptical voices here and there, VN is not ready yet for jet assembly and production and so forth. but I´m convinced we can do it. if we never start it, nor try it, we won´t have anything even in 10 or 20 years. how is it if we start from somewhere.
> 
> if we add the fleet of L-39 Albatros, that is used as trainer aircraft today, then the number will get bigger. economy of scale. sure, first and foremost, transfer of technology must be acquired, and that is not an easy task. and second, I know what you want to say: money must come from somewhere. we will get Gripen NG if we produce the jet. I know I´m a dreamer.



Hmm money aside is one of the most easiest part to setting up an aircraft production line, the infrastructure is same too, the most difficult parts is to accumulate experiences to gaining expertice for human resource to become capable to building such sophisticated flying machine. Indonesia starting it all with producing a license pro of simple trainer from Poland, the Turkish aero starting with licensing a trainer from US, same with South Korea and India. Lately Thailand is mulling about licensing some small aircraft product from PT DI to accumulate experience and expertise in this field. There is no cutting phase for Aircraft technologies because there is no error required to survive in this industry. I suggest Vietnam to do the same with other countries who want to start up in this field, start with small steps, accumulate the experience first before aiming big. Producing trainer like pillatus or grob will be a good and prudent start

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Hmm money aside is one of the most easiest part to setting up an aircraft production line, the infrastructure is same too, the most difficult parts is to accumulate experiences to gaining expertice for human resource to become capable to building such sophisticated flying machine. Indonesia starting it all with producing a license pro of simple trainer from Poland, the Turkish aero starting with licensing a trainer from US, same with South Korea and India. Lately Thailand is mulling about licensing some small aircraft product from PT DI to accumulate experience and expertise in this field. There is no cutting phase for Aircraft technologies because there is no error required to survive in this industry. I suggest Vietnam to do the same with other countries who want to start up in this field, start with small steps, accumulate the experience first before aiming big. Producing trainer like pillatus or grob will be a good and prudent start


Don't ask me where the money comes from. I have no clue. But fact is money is there. Giving you an example: the government wants to build a brand new airport for $15.8 billions, Long Thanh international airport in southern Vietnam. Another example: we want to become a nuclear power. To achieve that goal, the government wants to invest some $50 billions. That's just one of the 100 projects or more carrying out throughout the country. True. We are a poor country. We are behind of many countries in the region, thus we must work harder.

I wish we have more people with optimism, less with pessimism.

As you mention it. Indonesia has a good aerospace industry, I hardly see any reason why should we not follow?

I'm afraid the chinese will increase their arrogance and aggression. Thinking they will become a reasonable power is very naive. History shows they never have good intentions toward Vietnam.

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## Mokaman

Carlosa said:


> Thank you man. I very much like your opinions also. Yeah, its too bad about the old MP forum, there were a lot of high caliber people there.
> 
> The truth is, Vietnam is doing great considering the limited resources, it gets a lot of bang for the dollar. The only area where things are not working out is surface ships. Between the debacle of the old programs that got canceled and the never ending delays to get Russian ships and the suspension of the Sigma program, its taking forever to get a decent fleet.
> 
> I don't know, just my opinion, but I think the only type of ship that is worth to deploy in the islands would be small but fast missile boats and it has to be in a decent number (anything bigger would be dead on arrival in case of conflict), but I don't see any news on boats like that for Vietnam. I do know Vietnam will buy some fast boats from India, but I don't know if they will carry missiles. What's your take on that? The reason why I say small, fast missile boats is because they are easy and quick to deploy and move in and out. Difficult to detect but packing a decent missile punch, they can do some serious damage. If they get lost, the expense is low.
> 
> USA did a lot of war games simulating the threat of those Iranian missile boats attacking one of their carrier battle groups in the Persian gulf (very small boats carrying just 2 missiles each and very, very fast). All those war games and simulations always ended up the same way, those missile boats sink the American ships. I think there are good lessons from Vietnam there.




I think fast attack boats is a good idea but with that huge South China sea playground, the attack range is limited for those boats. They will be deadly near the Viet Nam coast but Spratly islands is another story and the conflict will most likely start over there, and we all know building fast boats bases on those island is suicidal and PLA can spot them easily before they reach Spratly. I will like VPA to invest more into small attack subs, they are much cheaper (than Kilo clas) and will give big headaches to PLA and will deploy a lot of resources to track VPA sub fleet. With the actual Kilo subs in operation, VPA will have huge experience in operating subs and it will be just logical to build a big submarine wing... Maybe Vietnam could build those small subs under license to make it cheaper..Vietnam will be the German wolfpacks of Asia...lol...That beauty German Type 212 is good example


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## yugocrosrb95

Carlosa said:


> We are going around the definitions of what an aircraft price is: flyaway or full price. Both versions of the price are correct.



This does not justify an unfair comparison.



> You say my number is not correct because its 3 years old even that it comes from Saab?



I already knew that it comes from Saab, I suspected that you were using Saab's estimate from 3 years ago that are now outdated and just because it came from Saab does not make it a correct number for last or this year because the estimate made in mind of what would Gripen NG/E/F would cost in 2012 before Gripen NG/E/F development being finished.

[/QUOTE]Show me the numbers from Saab.[/QUOTE]

Translated via Google Translate;
"In these deals, the focus is usually on the plan itself. But, according to Ulf Nilsson, the plan appears only for 25-30 percent of the whole affair when Brazil buys Gripen. The rest of the money goes to ground, tactical support systems, simulators, support, and everything else required for the plan in practice to be used."



> I said all along 80 million fully loaded. Your Brazilian guy said 50 million plus subsystems,



It isn't 80 million USD for complete plane, Brazilian guy didn't say 50 million USD plus subsystems.



> so you have not showed what the actual fly away price is including everything for the version and features that were bought.



You want to believe that because you're either in denial or you simply didn't bother to do proper research.

You're basically saying that a complete fighter isn't complete despite having being complete in first place.



> Its nonsense to expect that the price will drop from 80 million to 50 million in 3 years.



You are still want to believe that an estimate is the actual price despite being an estimate and not actual price of the jet also it is nonsense to expect that technology has advanced considerably in 3 years and that Saab engineers managed to find ways to reduce cost while maintaining the quality in those 3 years?

"We have reduced the number of flight tests by 40 percent and overall had significantly lower development costs. That's probably where we stand out the most compared to competitors, says Ulf Nilsson."



> Since when that guy is a credible reference and without details of those subsystems?



What subsystems? He mentioned systems not subsystems, you want to believe that he meant subsystems which ofcourse is thanks to your ignorance because he was talking about Tactical Support System.

"The rest of the money goes to ground, tactical support systems, simulators, support, and everything else required for the plan in practice to be used."

If you knew about Brazl's Gripen NG deal then you would have been aware of Tactical Support Systems which is for example such as this:
AN/SQQ-34 AIRCRAFT CARRIER TACTICAL SUPPORT SYSTEM (CV-TSC)

Did you forgot that Brazil has two aircraft carriers and that they want to develop a SeaGripen?



> you just want to avoid admitting a mistake and you go around the bushes, understandable for young kids.



How can I admit that I have made a mistake when I didn't, should I lie to you and myself to satisfy you? So I am a kid despite being over 20 years old? Sure, adults are now kids so you're a kid too if we follow your definition/standards...

You believe that I made a mistake, you didn't consider that the reality is actually the opposite and that you have made mistakes because of your poorly done research involving Gripen and Brazil's deal.



> Brazil payed 4.68 billion USD for 36 Gripen NG's, that's full price including what is usually included in those deals. If you want to argue about price definitions, then you have to first specify what price are you talking about, both versions of the price are correct and both are used, flyaway and full price.



Gripen NG deal isn't usual, far from it, its more like those rare ones like Japan, Israel and South Korea...







I am not arguing about price definitions as I am arguing about you continuing to make unfair comparison and you're asking for specify despite I have already done and you ignored it as you continued to make unfair/invalid comparison.



> A tactical ground support aircraft will get used to soften up positions assuming that it can survive. You don't want to understand that that type of aircraft can't survive in a conflict with china. By the way, for that role, Vietnam will get the Yak-130 so the one that is speculating with those ideas is you.



I only saw speculations that VIetnam was interested in getting Yak-130.



> I know for a fact that the export price of MIG-35 was offered at 35 million because I read it more than once and I can find the articles if I dedicate some time to it.



Fact according to you yet I dedicated time to find it and I find out that it is 35 million USD for Russia in 2013 and 43.5 million USD for Egypt in 2014.



> My speculation about Egypt's price is reasonable, the arabs always pay top price.



I love that myth, show's how people are delusional and think Arabs are dumb... hahaha



> How the article that says Sweden pays 150 million proves me wrong?



Look at the date of the article, you keep using outdated information.



> If you claim that my information is outdated, then show me more recent information that is credible.



You're incompetent.

Saabs flygchef byter strategi | SvD

Saab’s Annual Gripen Seminar 2015




Mokaman said:


> Before using L39 for ground support, you need to control the airspace, which I don't think Viet Nam could do it against PLA.



India and Viet Nam are cooperating with each other since both have territory disputes with China, if China engages Viet Nam then it will need to allocate substantial resources to have a good chance of winning war which would mean allocating/sending three times the force of what Viet Nam has.



> The Syrian airforce are using them right now for ground support and they are falling down like pigeons from ground fire (heavy machine guns and some obsolete MANPAD). Those L39 will have zero chance against a well-equipped and modern army.



If you didn't know, Viet Nam is either going to replace or upgrade L39 to NG standard.



> The best and cheapest way for VPA is to use the shovel and dig hole & trenches and buy tons of MANPADS and JAVELINS-types, fight a dirty war and forget about those expensive aircrafts and the ground support from air.



So it is your interest that VPA has high losses by using strategy/tactics that you are suggesting.



> And the VPA infantry doctrine and training doesn't rely much on air support, they more into ground support fire from artillery, missiles and mortars



Remember Gulf War?



> By the way, we all know those European jetfighters are freaking expensive.







> Just look how many and which countries in the world operate them. They are few and they are all rich countries



You're ignoring Russia and you're wrong, is Hungary, Czech Republic, Thailand or South Africa rich? No.



Carlosa said:


> My take is that the SU-30SM compares nicely with the Eurofighter.



No, it doesn't and only an uninformed people would have said that.



> There is no need to get the expensive Eurofighter and a whole new logistical chain.



If that was the case then Viet Nam would't consider western aircraft nor it would have shown interest in Eurofighter Typhoon if there wasn't some need for it, maybe because its something China doesn't have?



> To get a European aircraft just because of the Meteor missile is not a good idea long term.



How is it not a good idea? So according to you, it is good for Viet Nam to depend solely on Russian jets?

Viet Nam doesn't need Typhoon or Gripen NG to use Meteor since Gripen C/D can use it.



> The Russian jets are currently using the R-77 as the air to air long range missile. The Meteor is better, but the Russians are upgrading the R-77 to version R-77M1 and that one will have a range of 175 km and a much improved AESA radar seeker, so at that point there is no advantage to having the Meteor.



You're spreading misinformation, R-77M1 aka R-77-PD development stopped in 1999 while longest range R-77 available to SU-30's is R-77-1 which has 110 kilometer range also R-77 that is highly improved and has AESA can only be used on PAK FA.



> Just imagine the power of a SU-30MK2 using the R-77M1 missile and later an upgraded radar.



Imagine Su-30MK2 having that non-existent missile and getting shotdown by Eurofighter Typhoon with Meteor missiles from 150+ kilometers away while SU-30MK2 pilot during all that time doesn't know the location of Typhoon that moved away from SU-30MK2 the moment it launched Meteor and still tracking SU-30MK2 and updating each other via dual-link communication..


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## Carlosa

@yugocrosrb95

Like I said before, I'm done with this topic and I'm done dealing with you also. If you reply to me again, I'll put you in my ignore list, I'm not going to waste my time with you, go play with the chinese kids of your same age if you like.

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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> This does not justify an unfair comparison.
> 
> India and Viet Nam are cooperating with each other since both have territory disputes with China, if China engages Viet Nam then it will need to allocate substantial resources to have a good chance of winning war which would mean allocating/sending three times the force of what Viet Nam has.
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't know, Viet Nam is either going to replace or upgrade L39 to NG standard.
> 
> 
> 
> So it is your interest that VPA has high losses by using strategy/tactics that you are suggesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember Gulf War?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're ignoring Russia and you're wrong, is Hungary, Czech Republic, Thailand or South Africa rich? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine Su-30MK2 having that non-existent missile and getting shotdown by Eurofighter Typhoon with Meteor missiles from 150+ kilometers away while SU-30MK2 pilot during all that time doesn't know the location of Typhoon that moved away from SU-30MK2 the moment it launched Meteor and still tracking SU-30MK2 and updating each other via dual-link communication..




@yugocrosrb95 you gotta stop insulting people, you have an opinion but not all the true. You cannot push your opinion into people throat

Never compare iraqi troop sitting duck in flat desert with no-where-to-hide and waiting to get wipe out by US B52 and VPA troops. Desert warfare is a totally different ball game than mountain & jungle warfare...Those same B52 have been use massively in Vietnam and they still can't dig out VPA. The Americans during the war lost over 10 000 aircrafts and choppers (and South Viet Nam lost 2500) most by anti-aircraft weapons (AAA and SAM). With a few dozens of modern jetfighters how in the hell VPA will be able to control the airspace? PLA can deploy easily few hundreds jetfighters for the Viet Nam frontline.

Your L39 NG even you boost it with whatever you want, it won't survive against PLA heavy anti-aircraft and missiles and PLA jetfighters. L39 is good for anti-guerilla war but not suitable against a modern army...EVEN for the L39 NG ...!!!

Viet Nam is just like Russia, it soldiers and people can bleed and suffer more than the invading enemy. Just look at the military history of Viet Nam, against bigger opponents the only way to win is fight till your enemy is tire and withdrawn, to achieve that goal you are ready to suffer and bleed more... So yeah, VPA will dig holes and trenches and fight a dirty war to win t just like during the Sino-Vietnam war of 1979...Go read that 1979 conflict.

Your Grippen operators are all richer than Viet Nam and most of them just operate 10-20 planes, that small number already give you a hint how expensive it's... So yeah they are expensive to buy and operate

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## Viet

Having aircraft for ground support missions, helping the infantry on battlefields is not necessary a bad idea. I don´t think the chinese belong to a superiour race with nuclear powered brain because they have more weapons than they can carry. I think the overall point yugo wants to make is VPA should develop offensive capability.

the Army won the war against Cambodia in 1978 just a matter of 2 weeks, because the VPA utilized all branches of the armed forces: infantry, tanks, airforce and artillery. Not all people know but especially the two major thrusts by naval landing on the southern coast of Cambodia and the breakthrough by our tank army on the western front were the decisive factors in crushing the cambodian army. a blitzkrieg. our tanks cut through the cambodian army like a hot knife cutting through warm butter.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Having aircraft for ground support missions, helping the infantry on battlefields is not necessary a bad idea. I don´t think the chinese belong to a superiour race with nuclear powered brain because they have more weapons than they can carry. I think the overall point yugo wants to make is VPA should develop offensive capability.
> 
> the Army won the war against Cambodia in 1978 just a matter of 2 weeks, because the VPA utilized all branches of the armed forces: infantry, tanks, airforce and artillery. Not all people know but especially the two major thrusts by naval landing on the southern coast of Cambodia and the breakthrough by our tank army on the western front were the decisive factors in crushing the cambodian army. a blitzkrieg. our tanks cut through the cambodian army like a hot knife cutting through warm butter.



I'll just say that china and cambodia are a little bit different..........


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## Aqsuperman

BMP-1 under servicing . An intersting fact : the backdoor is a actually a internal fuel container while marching . Before go into combat , its was refiled with sand to improve protection


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I'll just say that china and cambodia are a little bit different..........


I know. Bro, first, we fought in wars against the chinese more than other of our enemies. Combined. Although the strategy and tactics on battlefields differed from war to war, but, second, one thing is common. we always had offensive components to inflict unsustainable damages to them.


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## yugocrosrb95

Mokaman said:


> @yugocrosrb95 you gotta stop insulting people, you have an opinion but not all the true. You cannot push your opinion into people throat



I am not insulting nor pushing my opinion on people and claiming that is fallacy since I am correcting people with truthful/factual information and because of that I am somehow "insulting" and pushing my "opinion" onto people.



> Never compare iraqi troop sitting duck in flat desert with no-where-to-hide and waiting to get wipe out by US B52 and VPA troops. Desert warfare is a totally different ball game than mountain & jungle warfare...Those same B52 have been use massively in Vietnam and they still can't dig out VPA. The Americans during the war lost over 10 000 aircrafts and choppers (and South Viet Nam lost 2500) most by anti-aircraft weapons (AAA and SAM).



I didn't made that comparsion, you just did that and again I said "Remember Gulf War" as we were talking about air support while then you proceeded to compare Vietnam War which started nearly 30 years before and ended 15-16 years before Gulf War in which USA demonstrated to the world a new level of how to wage war with air support playing crucial role.



> With a few dozens of modern jetfighters how in the hell VPA will be able to control the airspace? PLA can deploy easily few hundreds jetfighters for the Viet Nam frontline.



PLA can't afford to send few hundred military jets for invasion of Viet Nam since PLA air force has a task of controlling nearly 30 times larger air space compared to Viet Nam's air space. VPA's air force in terms of modern military jets is 1/10th of China and needs to control 30 times less air space.

China also has serious dispute with India that has cooperation with Viet Nam thus China would need to allocate substantial part of air force to guard the air space near the border with India.



> Your L39 NG even you boost it with whatever you want, it won't survive against PLA heavy anti-aircraft and missiles and PLA jetfighters.



I am not boosting it,



> L39 is good for anti-guerilla war but not suitable against a modern army...EVEN for the L39 NG ...!!!



I doubt that light armored vehicles and infrantry would survive barrage of rockets.



> Viet Nam is just like Russia, it soldiers and people can bleed and suffer more than the invading enemy. Just look at the military history of Viet Nam, against bigger opponents the only way to win is fight till your enemy is tire and withdrawn, to achieve that goal you are ready to suffer and bleed more... So yeah, VPA will dig holes and trenches and fight a dirty war to win t just like during the Sino-Vietnam war of 1979...Go read that 1979 conflict.



Please stop living in the past.



> Your Grippen operators are all richer than Viet Nam



You're wrong.



> and most of them just operate 10-20 planes, that small number already give you a hint how expensive it's...



A hint? You're suggesting something that isn't true due to you being uninformed about Gripen.

[/QUOTE]So yeah they are expensive to buy and operate[/QUOTE]

Still cheaper than SU-30, specially when on operating costs.


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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> Having aircraft for ground support missions, helping the infantry on battlefields is not necessary a bad idea. I don´t think the chinese belong to a superiour race with nuclear powered brain because they have more weapons than they can carry. I think the overall point yugo wants to make is VPA should develop offensive capability.
> 
> the Army won the war against Cambodia in 1978 just a matter of 2 weeks, because the VPA utilized all branches of the armed forces: infantry, tanks, airforce and artillery. Not all people know but especially the two major thrusts by naval landing on the southern coast of Cambodia and the breakthrough by our tank army on the western front were the decisive factors in crushing the cambodian army. a blitzkrieg. our tanks cut through the cambodian army like a hot knife cutting through warm butter.



The Cambodia invasion was a piece of cake for VPA, Khmer Rouge army was is sad state after multiple internal purges that decimated the rank. In 1978, Khmer rouge army was estimated around 70,000 With a lot of underage soldiers, only a few heavy tanks, 200 armoured vehicles and limited air capability. The Cambodians can't even use properly all the heavy weapons (tanks and artillery) and communication the Chinese gave them because of lack of competent soldiers. Also, the VPA force that invade Cambodia were veterans battle hardened divisions that just beat up South Vietnam Army and had years of combat experience. So the Khmer rouge was no match, that's why everything crumbled so quick.

Today, Vietnam can't do this kind of large conventional war against China, it will be illogical to waste all the resource for an unknow outcome . The only logical offensive capability that VPA should use against much larger and better equipped enemy like PLA are short and quick attacks like deep insertion inside China by commando units doing demolition and sabotage or missiles & airplanes attack on specific targets or subs attack or fast boat attack boats inside Chinese territories or PLA fleet...Those quick attacks are cost efficient, it will just make China to invest more resources to protect their back and Vpa won't lose too much in those attacks

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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> I didn't made that comparsion, you just did that and again I said "Remember Gulf War" as we were talking about air support while then you proceeded to compare Vietnam War which started nearly 30 years before and ended 15-16 years before Gulf War in which USA demonstrated to the world a new level of how to wage war with air support playing crucial role.
> 
> 
> 
> PLA can't afford to send few hundred military jets for invasion of Viet Nam since PLA air force has a task of controlling nearly 30 times larger air space compared to Viet Nam's air space. VPA's air force in terms of modern military jets is 1/10th of China and needs to control 30 times less air space.
> 
> I doubt that light armored vehicles and infrantry would survive barrage of rockets.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop living in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> You're wrong.
> .



You look more and more like an old stubborn old man....You tell me not living in the past when you bring in up stuff from the Gulf war 1990, wihat is old for you? everything that's over 20 years? How old you think B52 is ? And it will be still operational till 2050. Military doctrine and strategies doesn't change every 5-10 years it stay for decades. Yes technology progress but the way of fighting remain the same. So for you digging trenches are old stuffs? Also repeating the same strategy of 1979 use by VPA against PLA is also living from the past? You are more and more illogical and confuse

Your damn L39 can't launch rockets if your enemy control the airspace and have heavy anti-aircraft defence...Before your L39 can drop bombs it will be detected and blast away, that why I said L39 are good to use against anti-guerrilla, because those guerrilla doesn't have airpower and limited anti-aircraft defence...So what is so hard to understand?? Just go look at the L39 record losses last 10-15 years during ground support and look who shot them down; troop ill equipped ...Now try to imagine sending those L39 NG against a big modern army with tons of anti-aircrafts, radars and jetfighters

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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> The only logical offensive capability that VPA should use against much larger and better equipped enemy like PLA are short and quick attacks like deep insertion inside China by commando units doing demolition and sabotage or missiles & airplanes attack on specific targets or subs attack or fast boat attack boats inside Chinese territories or PLA fleet...Those quick attacks are cost efficient, it will just make China to invest more resources to protect their back and Vpa won't lose too much in those attacks



And ballistic missile attacks.



Mokaman said:


> You look more and more like an old stubborn old man....



This guy is 20 years old according to his profile...............


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## Mokaman

Carlosa said:


> And ballistic missile attacks.
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is 20 years old according to his profile...............


@Carlosa How you think about my suggestion on small attack subs that I posted earlier? 

That guy, I just think he is too much of a theory guy rather than practical, things on papers is never the same on the field. And things we plan never happen as we plan once all hell broke out. That's why a lot of guys who write things never been on the practical side and rely too much on specifications and theories


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## Viet

*Vietnam to divest former US airbase*

Vietnam to divest former US airbase - Airforce Technology

20 January 2016




_Image: Nha Trang airbase stretches upto approximately 186 hectares. Photo: courtesy of Wikipedia._


The Vietnamese Ministry of Defence (MoD) has decided to offload a former US airbase in the Khánh Hòa province on the south central coast.

An initial evaluation by the Vietnamese authorities has estimated the value of the property to be around *$540m*. A shopping-service mixed development is expected to come up on the Nha Trang airbase that stretches to approximately 186 hectares, reported Thanhnien News.

Around 10 hectares on the beachfront of the property has been assigned for public facilities such as a park, a museum, and an exhibition centre.

"Though the authorities have not yet disclosed details about the potential investors, local media reported that four companies expressed interest in the deal."

Built by the French in 1949, the airbase was previously the centre for the US Air Force military training before being selected as the air instruction centre for the Vietnamese Air Force (VNAF).

*Nha Trang airbase *stopped functioning as an airport in late 2009 when the Air Force moved to Binh Thuan Province near the Ho Chi Minh City. Other bases operated by US in Vietnam include Tan Son Nhut air base, Bien Hoa air base and Marble Mountain Air Facility.

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## Viet

_an appeal to develop a closer relationship to India_




*India, Vietnam Take Ties To Strategic Level Against Chinese Assertiveness – Analysis*
*
By South Asia Monitor January 21, 2016
By Major General P K Chakravorty (Retd.)*

*

_




Locations of India and Vietnam. Source: Wikipedia Commons._



*Vietnam* lies in the Asia-Pacific region which has of late become a major witness to a phenomenal rise of China, which as a country is not only the world’s second largest economy, but is also a nation with the largest armed forces. The United States, concerned with the increasing might of China, especially its military power, is trying to rebalance its forces in the region.

It is pertinent to note that most of US imports come from this region and with regard to exports, the Asia-Pacific is the second largest destination for the US. The US also has its military bases in Japan and Republic of Korea, as also friendly port facilities for US warships in Singapore, Thailand and Philippines. Agreements with Australia have seen the stationing of US Marines at the port of Darwin. But despite its mammoth military presence in the Asia-Pacific, the US preaches freedom of navigation in this area against the Chinese maritime claims in the East China and South China Sea. The East China Sea disputes are with Japan and the South China Sea disputes are with Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.

While China has an unsettled land border with India, what surprised India was China’s objection to drilling for oil by ONGC Videsh in *two oil blocks* donated by Vietnam. India rightly stated her right to undertake commercial activities in what it considers are international waters. This bold step by the Indian and Vietnamese governments led to China’s silence on this issue. Further it strengthened the bonds friendship between these two countries.

*New Waves of Strategic partnership*

Shakespeare had aptly written in his play, Julius Caesar, that “coming events cast their shadows before”. China aspires to be a future world power and India has two major issues with the country. The first is the border issue and the second pertains to the supply of nuclear weapons to Pakistan. Vietnam too contests the Chinese claim on the islands in the South China Sea, and which has consequently brought this country close to India so much so that they are now invested in an intense strategic partnership.

India and Vietnam enjoy strong strategic relations which had emerged with the first Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on Defence being signed in 1994, followed by formal Defence Protocol in 2000 and the Strategic Partnership in 2007. Ever since, India has had an annual Strategic Defence Dialogue with Vietnam in which the the Indian Defence Secretary represents the country. Considering the intensity of our relations, the upgradation of these talks to the Ministerial levels would certainly become more impactful and beneficial for both India and Vietnam.

*Cam Ranh Bay* has been often described as one of the jewels of Vietnam. The long protective seaward peninsula, natural inner and outer harbours form what many believe to be possibly the best deep water port sea port facility in the entire world. There is also an Air Force base with excellent runways for state of the art aircraft. The usage of these facilities by the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force would help India to strengthen its strategic partnership with Vietnam and and enable us to undertake actions to protect our economic assets in the South China Sea. The area is being quietly considered between the two countries.

Based on Vietnam’s requirements, India could provide Dornier surveillance aircrafts, mini Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), upgraded *T-72 tanks* and indigenously manufactured Artillery equipment once the same has proved trials and few of our old ships of the Indian Navy. Vietnam has been provided a US $ 100 million Line of Credit to possibly purchase four *Offshore Patrol Vessels* (OPVs) from Goa Shipyard Limited.

Vietnam is impressed with our Missile development and is keen to purchase our supersonic cruise missile *BrahMos* which could be used on land and sea. The issue merits serious consideration as there are no objections from the foreign joint developer. Vietnam is also keen that opportunity be accorded to train their scientists.

Vietnam admires the professional training of our Armed Forces and looks forward to assistance in training in the areas including, conversion training for *SU-30* pilots of the Peoples Vietnam Air Force by the Indian Air Force; *submarine* crew training of the Peoples Vietnam Navy by the Indian Navy; training in *Counter Insurgency* and Jungle Warfare with the Indian Army; training in *English* language.

The Vietnamese President as also the General Secretary of the Communist Party, Trong Tan Sang and Nguyen Phú Trong, respectively had visited India and were frank about strengthening defence relations with India. Vietnam would like to cooperate in the field of training as also gaining knowledge in the field of rocketry and *missiles*. It would be in India’s interest to cultivate Vietnam and cooperate in strategic aspects to dissuade China from undertaking a misadventure.

Vietnam is looking for cooperation in areas of outer space with India. They have already launched two satellites and are planning their own *navigation satellites*. Cooperation with India would be mutually beneficial to both countries. All these were discussed during the recent high level visits conducted by the Indian President and Foreign Minister to Vietnam.

*Recent Events*

It is of interest to note that a new *satellite monitoring station* is expected to be activated in Vietnam and linked to another neighbouring facility in Indonesia. This is important due to Chinese assertiveness in this area. China has currently built airstrips and their aircrafts are undertaking surveillance and logistics operations in the area. India has set up a Data Reception, Tracking and Telemetry Station at Ho Chi Minh City. This will be activated soon and would be linked up with another station at Biakin, Indonesia. The latest facility will assist India to track our satellites and receive data from them. Similar facilities exist in Brunei.

*India* with this resource will be in a position to track Chinese activities in the Spratly group of islands where China has currently constructed airfields for Chinese aircraft to undertake operations. As India is undertaking oil exploration in the South China Sea, it is essential to obtain real time inputs regarding Chinese military activity in the region. This would facilitate a suitable response if required in conjunction with the Vietnamese Armed Forces. Indeed this is a step which further intensifies strategic cooperation between the two countries.


_**Major General P K Chakravorty (Retd.)* is security and strategic affairs analyst with a specific focus on India’s maritime interests. He can be reached at: chakravortyprabir.chakravorty@gmail.com_

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## Aqsuperman

A new addition to Special Task units .........btw , this is only for looks , this guy actually aim the wrong way


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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> @Carlosa How you think about my suggestion on small attack subs that I posted earlier?



Absolutely !!!!!! Small attack subs are one of the assets that Vietnam should have; not mini subs, those are just for coastal waters. There is a particular small sub that has been my favorite one for a few years since not only has everything that is needed for that role, but its almost like if it was designed to operate in the Spratlys. I have posted plenty of info about that sub in this thread in the past. Here I go again:

*SMX-26 Littoral Seabed Landing Submarine*






*D*CNS unveils a new submarine concept at Euronaval 2012: The SMX-26
1,000 tons of displacement, size is 40 meters long.

DCNS presents for the first time at Euronaval 2012 its new small size submarine optimized for shallow waters operations.

SMX 26 is a small submarine designed to operate in very shallow water - up to 15 m depth in coastal areas where no submarine operates conventionally.





SMX-26 model on display on DCNS' stand at Euronaval 2012





SMX-26 deploying combat divers

It has extreme maneuverability and a vertical dynamic stability near the bottom or under surface waves thanks to its two shaft lines and its four adjustable and retractable azimuth thrusters.





SMX-26 on the seabed

The SMX-26 has the unique ability to "land" very quickly on all types of seabeds with its extendable wheels. It can then stay lurking in the bottom for up to 30 days.

In such situation, air and data communication is provided through flexible pipes deployed towards the surface.

SMX-26 may deploy the following: 6 Special Forces divers, *20 mm canon mast*, *self-defense anti-aircraft missile* (in container),* two heavy torpedoes and eight light torpedo with heavy warheads*.

Capable of enduring long periods and con- ducting missions in water less than 15m deep, the SMX 26 features two shaft-lines, four steerable and retractable azimuththrusters to provide extreme manoeuvrability, as well as ability to maintain steady position near the bottom.

As well as its long discreet surveillance capability, the SMX 26 is equipped with an extendable wheeled undercarriage system to enable quick landing on all types of sea bed and deploying hoses to the surface for air and power.

The SMX 26 is integrated with sensors to support missions, including six special forces divers deployed during a dive or at the surface to identify moving targets.

The new submarine is armed with two mast-mounted weapon systems, with a 20mm cannon and a missile launch container for anti-aircraft self-defence, as well as two heavyweight and eight lightweight torpedoes with heavy warheads.

A new anti-aircraft self defence weapon system for submarines has also been introduced by the company, aimed to help navies to protect their vessels against airborne threats worldwide.

The new defence system forces aircraft to remain at a standoff distance from submarines and has been developed in two versions by DCNS and MBDA, featuring a mast-mounted anti-aircraft self defence system and a self defence system with an undersea vehicle (UUV).

Integrated within the Subtics combat system, the mast-mounted anti-aircraft self- defence system features a retractable mast to support a turret, which comprises several Mistral short-range missiles; whereas the UUV is equipped with a Mica medium-range missile.

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## Viet

*Aerial Defence*

the report says, true or not I can´t verify, maybe we wait for more reports confirming the news, Vietnam is currently procuring Russia's next-generation air defense system S-400.

Russian Arms Transfers and Asian Military Modernisation / ISN









with S-400 missile shield in place, we can neutralize all enemy modern and advanced air and space attacks at the distance up to 400 km. the radars, acquisition range of max 600 km, will cover the airspace of Southern China and the entire South China Sea, tracking all movements, evaluating aerial threats.

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## Viet

*Vietnam's sacred turtle in Hoan Kiem lake dies as Communists gather*

Updated about 8 hours ago
Thu 21 Jan 2016, 7:52am


*

*
*Photo:* The turtle, a Swinhoe's softshell, possibly one of four left in the world, underwent a health check in 2011. (Reuters)


A giant turtle considered sacred in Vietnam and venerated as a symbol of the country's independence struggle has died, according to state media.
*
The turtle's death prompted an outpouring of grief and stoked fears it boded ill for an upcoming Communist leadership handover.*

The reptile, a critically endangered Swinhoe's softshell turtle occupies a key mythological role in Vietnam, and in the past the turtle generally surfaced only rarely, with its sightings deemed auspicious.

Experts said it was one of only four turtles — better known as Yangtze giant softshells — in existence. Two are in a zoo in China and the other lives in a different lake in Hanoi.

It was found dead in Hoan Kiem lake in central Hanoi late Tuesday, the state-run Tuoi Tre newspaper said. The turtle, which weighed about 200 kilograms, was said to be anywhere between 80 and more than 100 years old.

Tim McCormack, of the Asian Turtle Program, said it was a "great blow" to have lost the turtle, which was "possibly the rarest species on the planet". "It was clearly an ancient animal, I would say easily over 100 years old, and so its death does not come as any real great surprise," he said.

*'Bad omen' for Communist Party congress*

Because of the cultural significance of the turtle, which many Vietnamese considered sacred, it has not been possible to include the Hoan Kiem animal in any breeding programs which could have helped conserve the species, he added.

The turtle's demise was widely mourned on Vietnamese-language blogs and social media, with many warning it was a bad omen for upcoming changes in the ruling Communist Party, which begins its five-yearly congress today.

"This is bad news for many people in Hanoi," the Thanh Nien newspaper said.

Vietnam's authoritarian rulers will choose a new party leader, president and prime minister at the party congress. In a story taught to all Vietnamese schoolchildren, the sacred turtle of Hoan Kiem is the custodian of the magic sword of Le Loi, a 15th-century rebel leader who vanquished Chinese invaders.

Although officially an atheist country, many Vietnamese are deeply superstitious.

"I feel empty. My children, grandchildren will only know the turtle from legend," online commentator Duong Nguyen wrote on the popular VNExpress site.

Reports about the turtle's death first appeared in state media late Tuesday, but some were taken down apparently under pressure from communist authorities. The turtle's body is being kept at a temple on a small island in the lake pending an official decision on how to proceed, state media said, adding that embalming was being considered.

*AFP*


----------



## Viet

*Navy*

for the first time ever, a Viet warship is on the way, paying friendly port visits to Singapore and India: Frigate 011-Đinh Tiên Hoàng. travelling through the Straits of Malacca, the Gulf of Thailand before cruising the *Indian Ocean*. practising navigation skills, day and night, a voyage of 5,000 nautical miles. the frigate will arrive in India to attend the International Fleet Review from February 4 to 8.

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## Aqsuperman

A limited-standard anti tank weapon , RPG-7 is the the main ones with a number of RPG-29


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## Viet

posting some events that may be of one´s interest.


January 14 Hanoi. Major General Vithal Ram Peshwae from *Indian naval war academy* delegation’s pays a visit to Vietnam. General Vithal says he wants to study Vietnamese naval forces and discuss issues of shared concerns.







Hanoi on January 19. Receiving Major General Katsuki Takada from the *Japan Ground Self-Defence Force’s* Staff Office. the army offers Japan send its military students to Vietnam to take part in international training courses and learn Vietnamese at the country’s military schools.







VCP's ongoing 12th National Congress, in Hanoi. eight-days.

the opening






the delegates
the banner reads: rich people make country strong. interesting and remarkable slogan for a socialist country. but one should know this slogan isn´t a new invention, but comes from ancient times when Vietnam was ruled by Emperors.






the red banner further reads: equality and progress.





whoever wins the race, the post of the Party Chief, he will automatically become the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.






the prime candidates and opponents: the current Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung (right), and General secretary Nguyen Phu Trong (left). two different characters and political directions: reformers vs. conservatives.






a special guest to the party congress: U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius.

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## Mokaman

Carlosa said:


> Absolutely !!!!!! Small attack subs are one of the assets that Vietnam should have; not mini subs, those are just for coastal waters. There is a particular small sub that has been my favorite one for a few years since not only has everything that is needed for that role, but its almost like if it was designed to operate in the Spratlys. I have posted plenty of info about that sub in this thread in the past. Here I go again:
> 
> *SMX-26 Littoral Seabed Landing Submarine*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *D*CNS unveils a new submarine concept at Euronaval 2012: The SMX-26
> 1,000 tons of displacement, size is 40 meters long.
> 
> DCNS presents for the first time at Euronaval 2012 its new small size submarine optimized for shallow waters operations.
> 
> SMX 26 is a small submarine designed to operate in very shallow water - up to 15 m depth in coastal areas where no submarine operates conventionally.
> 
> View attachment 288648
> 
> SMX-26 model on display on DCNS' stand at Euronaval 2012
> 
> View attachment 288649
> 
> SMX-26 deploying combat divers
> 
> It has extreme maneuverability and a vertical dynamic stability near the bottom or under surface waves thanks to its two shaft lines and its four adjustable and retractable azimuth thrusters.
> 
> View attachment 288650
> 
> SMX-26 on the seabed
> 
> The SMX-26 has the unique ability to "land" very quickly on all types of seabeds with its extendable wheels. It can then stay lurking in the bottom for up to 30 days.
> 
> In such situation, air and data communication is provided through flexible pipes deployed towards the surface.
> 
> SMX-26 may deploy the following: 6 Special Forces divers, *20 mm canon mast*, *self-defense anti-aircraft missile* (in container),* two heavy torpedoes and eight light torpedo with heavy warheads*.
> 
> Capable of enduring long periods and con- ducting missions in water less than 15m deep, the SMX 26 features two shaft-lines, four steerable and retractable azimuththrusters to provide extreme manoeuvrability, as well as ability to maintain steady position near the bottom.
> 
> As well as its long discreet surveillance capability, the SMX 26 is equipped with an extendable wheeled undercarriage system to enable quick landing on all types of sea bed and deploying hoses to the surface for air and power.
> 
> The SMX 26 is integrated with sensors to support missions, including six special forces divers deployed during a dive or at the surface to identify moving targets.
> 
> The new submarine is armed with two mast-mounted weapon systems, with a 20mm cannon and a missile launch container for anti-aircraft self-defence, as well as two heavyweight and eight lightweight torpedoes with heavy warheads.
> 
> A new anti-aircraft self defence weapon system for submarines has also been introduced by the company, aimed to help navies to protect their vessels against airborne threats worldwide.
> 
> The new defence system forces aircraft to remain at a standoff distance from submarines and has been developed in two versions by DCNS and MBDA, featuring a mast-mounted anti-aircraft self defence system and a self defence system with an undersea vehicle (UUV).
> 
> Integrated within the Subtics combat system, the mast-mounted anti-aircraft self- defence system features a retractable mast to support a turret, which comprises several Mistral short-range missiles; whereas the UUV is equipped with a Mica medium-range missile.
> 
> View attachment 288651
> 
> View attachment 288653


That awesome small attack sub!! I read few articles in the french websites, it still only a digital design stage and will cost around 200 millions $. That French company DCNS have some great subs ideas, SMX25 is nasty . If VPA have a dozen of SMX26 subs, it will be a nightmare for PLA.



Viet said:


> *Navy*



@Viet Do you know why Vienam navy remove the HQ letters on the frigate? Because it use to be like this

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> at the distance up to 400 km



As far i know, export versions of S-400 attack at distance 250km. Don't know about radar range.



btw, i read about your discussion about future replacement of Vietnamese Mig-21 and want to notice to you several moments.

First of all, fighter jets you mentioned in discussion all belong to different classes:

Gripen NG (which is doesn't exist yet) - is a single engine, light jet fighter (similar to F-16, FC-1).
Mig-35 - is a two engines middle jet fighter ( Rafale, EF in the same category).
Su-30 - is a heavy jet fighter (analogue is F-15).

What is the main difference between all of those? - is a speed, payload and combat range. Usually, the bigger plane of the same generation - the better characteristics.

The second one, prices you mentioned here is quite wrongful. Actually, pretty much all of military contracts for the same weapons can be different from country to country.

The price for the Gripen in brazilian contract comes with the biggest offset program. What does it mean? As far i remember, 50% of the money will be returned to brazil with ToT, organisation of production and so on.
This is the main reason why the gripen had been chosen and not because of its characteristic which is actually pathetic. Anyway, this contract can be in dangerous now, because of economical problems in Brazil.

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## dichoi

@Mokaman : pls read more here.

Tại sao Việt Nam lại không dùng chữ HQ nữa trên số hiệu tàu hải quân? | Quân sự | soha.vn

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## Aqsuperman

Dug-in tank turret om islands , the rest are kept at mainlands as tractor or spare parts fot Su-100


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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> That awesome small attack sub!! I read few articles in the french websites, it still only a digital design stage and will cost around 200 millions $. That French company DCNS have some great subs ideas, SMX25 is nasty . If VPA have a dozen of SMX26 subs, it will be a nightmare for PLA.
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet Do you know why Vienam navy remove the HQ letters on the frigate? Because it use to be like this
> View attachment 289083



Yeah, that's how I feel. A dozen is exactly the number that I was thinking also. That would certainly complicate the chinese calculation for the south china sea.

One dozen. would be 2.4 billion, probably 3 billion for the whole program with a simulation center, some tea money for General Thanh, etc , just about the same as the Kilo program. Its very doable. And after that program, 6 of the upcoming Kalina class from Russia and you have a total force of 24 subs, why not?

I never heard anything about Vietnam negotiating for the SMX26 subs, but what Vietnam has been negotiating for is the S-1000 (don't know the status now) from Italy, which used to be a joint Italian - Russian project, but is now just Italian because of the sanctions against Russia.

S-1000 has a length of 56.2 m, diameter 5.5 m. S-1000 has a displacement when submerged close to 1,100 tons. Crew of 16 plus 6 special forces. Price was around $170 million. Has AIP, 6 bow mounted torpedo tube of 530 mm, can launch missiles and torpedoes, as well as mines. Weapons brought into the ship through the sub's side doors.
*

















*

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## Carlosa

*Is China Interfering in Vietnam’s Politics With Its South China Sea Moves?*

*Is China Interfering in Vietnam’s Politics With Its South China Sea Moves? | The Diplomat
*
Are China’s recent moves in contested maritime areas aimed to influence the outcome of a pivotal Communist Party congress now underway in Vietnam? Beijing’s latest shows of force in the South China Sea have coincided with an unusually pitched and still unresolvedstruggle for Vietnam’s ruling party’s leadership, pitting Prime Minister Nguyen Van Dung, a two-term premier who has drawn progressively closer to the United States, againt incumbent General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, leader of a more conservative faction ideologically allied to China.

On Tuesday, Vietnam claimed that China had towed a massive oil exploration rig into waters both countries claim in the South China Sea and demanded that Beijing withdraw it from the area. A similar episode in spring 2014 sparked anti-China riots that ransacked Chinese and other foreign-invested factories, killed at least three Chinese nationals, and forced Beijing to evacuatethousands of its fearful nationals. At the time, Dung’s hard and Trong’s soft response to the perceived incursion underscored intra-party divisions that have since deepened over how best to manage China’s rising assertiveness over control of nearby waterways.

The new rig furor follows on China’s test flights to an artificial island Beijing recently built at the contested Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands. Hanoi said in a statement that the flights threatened regional aviation and called on Beijing to desist from future flights to the maritime feature. State media shrilly dubbed the flights, which reportedly passed through Ho Chi Minh City’s flight information region, “kamikaze” missions. Beijing countered that it had advised Hanoi in advance of the flights and that because they flew over Chinese sovereign territory, the flights were exempt from international civil aviation regulations.

The diplomatic storms have cast a cloud over Vietnam’s 12th National Congress, where top leadership positions will be determined for the next five years. Dung’s faction had been ascendant in the lead-up to the congress, buoyed by his tough stand vis-à-vis China amid escalating territorial disputes. Many analysts had earlier predicted that Dung and his factional allies were poised to take the party’s top four posts, namely party secretary general, prime minister, president, and National Assembly chairman, a quadrumvirate of power that if formed would be expected to tilt economically and strategically towards the United States.

That analysis began to shift in late December when Trong, 72, hinted at his intention to stay on for a year or longer as party general secretary, beyond the 65-year-old age limit for Politburo members to assume new posts. Dung, 66, would likewise require an special exception to become party general secretary. Reports indicated that Trong, not Dung, was nominated for the post at the party’s Central Committee Conference held earlier this month, raising procedural questions if Dung can still be nominated and elected to the position at the national congress. The 1,510 party representative vote, usually a rubber stamp exercise on a pre-agreed candidate, is scheduled for January 27, according to news reports.

Some analysts suggest that China weighed on the Central Committee’s decision against Dung, a move that by certain readings of the party’s arcane procedures would force the pro-U.S. leader into mandatory retirement. On December 23, National Assembly chairman Nguyen Sinh Hung, deputy chairman Huynh Ngoc Son and members of the party Central Committee landed in Beijing for five days of meetings with senior Chinese leaders, including President Xi Jinping. State media said the visit aimed merely to promote bilateral ties. Independent analysts, on the other hand, have speculated Beijing leveraged the diplomatic occasion to voice its concerns about a possible Dung-dominated, U.S.-aligned government.

Vietnam’s blogosphere, always heavy on calumny, slight and intrigue, has been particularly venomous in the run-up to the national congress. Yet Politburo member and Central Propaganda Committee head Dinh The Huynh felt obliged to publicly deny commentary spread widely on social media that Hung visited Beijing specifically to seek China’s guidance on who should lead the party and government. Nguyen Tan Dung’s unofficial eponymous website ran an article that same day entitled, “Do not allow China to interfere into Vietnam’s internal affairs after a warm handshake” in reference to Hung’s and Central Committee members’ photo-op meeting with Xi.

Two days earlier, in a de facto campaign speech in Vietnam’s one-party political system, Dung urged over 60 provincial and city leaders via video conference to fight against any actions or plots that aimed to interfere in the country’s internal affairs ahead of the national congress, according to reports. Dung also underlined the need to firmly defend the country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, an appeal to nationalism vis-à-vis China known to resonate with many younger party members, not to mention the country’s increasingly vocal but still harshly suppressed pro-democracy and independent blogger communities.

In an apparent tit-for-tat response, Trong visited various security units in Hanoi on January 2 to demand “total security” for the congress and remind commanding officers that their loyalty was first and foremost to the party. Three days later, military and police staged a mass exercise in the capital comprised of over 5,000 security personnel, a strong signal that Trong’s faction maintains command control over the armed forces and that any anti-China or other protest mobilized coincident with the congress would be quickly suppressed. Whether those same forces could be called by Trong to void a vote or enforce a contested procedure is a question that suddenly looms heavily over Vietnam’s most protracted and high-stakes leadership struggle in years.

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## Viet

interesting in case of Laos. in the past, when Vietnam had armed conflicts with Thailand, Cambodia, France, America and China, Laos decided to ally with Vietnam. they obviously have unshakeable trust to Vietnam, that we will always prevail at the end of the day. apparently money, weapon, size and power or even blackmailing are not everything.



January 23, 2016 4:22 am JST
Laos politics
*Pro-Vietnam leader chosen to shake off dependence on China*
TAMAKI KYOZUKA, Nikkei staff writer





_Bounnhang casts a ballot. _


VIENTIANE -- The ruling communist party in Laos elected a 78-year-old vice president with close ties to Vietnam as its new leader on Friday, in a sign that the country wants a stronger relationship with Hanoi rather than relying too much on China.

Bounnhang Vorachith will succeed the 79-year-old Choummaly Sayasone as general secretary on the last day of the Lao People's Revolutionary Party congress, held once every five years. Choummaly had been in control for 10 years.

Bounnhang in 1952 joined the Laos revolutionary movement, the forerunner of the People's Revolutionary Party, which was responsible for the 1975 creation of the country as it is today. He has deep ties to Vietnam, receiving military training there and, after the Laotian civil war, studying socialism there.

The leadership change also included the departure of Somsavat Lengsavad, a deputy prime minister who was eighth in line of succession and is known to be pro-China.

Fluent in Chinese, Somsavat joined the cabinet as a foreign minister in 1993 and is credited with bringing Chinese corporate investment to Laos. In recent years, he helped implement a series of large projects with Chinese financing, including the launching of Laos' first satellite and the start of a $6 billion long-distance railroad project.

Investment by Chinese businesses has surged as a result. China accounted for nearly 30% of all 2014 foreign investment in Laos, surpassing Vietnam to ascend to the top spot, according to the Vientiane office of the Japan External Trade Organization.

But Laotian leaders apparently sought to prevent any damage to the country's historically strong relationship with Vietnam, which had provided military support to the 1975 founding of the current Laos which ended the U.S.-backed monarchy. With territorial tensions intensifying between Hanoi and Beijing over the South China Sea, Vientiane likely wants to improve its position in the regional balance, particularly since it is set to chair this year's summit of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

The new leadership hammered out economic targets at the congress, including domestic product growth of 7.5% per year and rising out of least-developed country status by 2020; and joining the list of upper-middle-income economies by 2030. Human resources are vital to achieving these targets, Bounnhang said. The fact that the party chose the septuagenarian as the new leader, not anyone younger, reveals a shortage of talented personnel.

Laos politics: Pro-Vietnam leader chosen to shake off dependence on China- Nikkei Asian Review

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## yugocrosrb95

Price is 50 million euros.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> interesting in case of Laos. in the past, when Vietnam had armed conflicts with Thailand, Cambodia, France, America and China, Laos decided to ally with Vietnam. they obviously have unshakeable trust to Vietnam, that we will always prevail at the end of the day. apparently money, weapon, size and power or even blackmailing are not everything.
> 
> 
> 
> January 23, 2016 4:22 am JST
> Laos politics
> *Pro-Vietnam leader chosen to shake off dependence on China*
> TAMAKI KYOZUKA, Nikkei staff writer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Bounnhang casts a ballot. _
> 
> 
> VIENTIANE -- The ruling communist party in Laos elected a 78-year-old vice president with close ties to Vietnam as its new leader on Friday, in a sign that the country wants a stronger relationship with Hanoi rather than relying too much on China.
> 
> Bounnhang Vorachith will succeed the 79-year-old Choummaly Sayasone as general secretary on the last day of the Lao People's Revolutionary Party congress, held once every five years. Choummaly had been in control for 10 years.
> 
> Bounnhang in 1952 joined the Laos revolutionary movement, the forerunner of the People's Revolutionary Party, which was responsible for the 1975 creation of the country as it is today. He has deep ties to Vietnam, receiving military training there and, after the Laotian civil war, studying socialism there.
> 
> The leadership change also included the departure of Somsavat Lengsavad, a deputy prime minister who was eighth in line of succession and is known to be pro-China.
> 
> Fluent in Chinese, Somsavat joined the cabinet as a foreign minister in 1993 and is credited with bringing Chinese corporate investment to Laos. In recent years, he helped implement a series of large projects with Chinese financing, including the launching of Laos' first satellite and the start of a $6 billion long-distance railroad project.
> 
> Investment by Chinese businesses has surged as a result. China accounted for nearly 30% of all 2014 foreign investment in Laos, surpassing Vietnam to ascend to the top spot, according to the Vientiane office of the Japan External Trade Organization.
> 
> But Laotian leaders apparently sought to prevent any damage to the country's historically strong relationship with Vietnam, which had provided military support to the 1975 founding of the current Laos which ended the U.S.-backed monarchy. With territorial tensions intensifying between Hanoi and Beijing over the South China Sea, Vientiane likely wants to improve its position in the regional balance, particularly since it is set to chair this year's summit of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.
> 
> The new leadership hammered out economic targets at the congress, including domestic product growth of 7.5% per year and rising out of least-developed country status by 2020; and joining the list of upper-middle-income economies by 2030. Human resources are vital to achieving these targets, Bounnhang said. The fact that the party chose the septuagenarian as the new leader, not anyone younger, reveals a shortage of talented personnel.
> 
> Laos politics: Pro-Vietnam leader chosen to shake off dependence on China- Nikkei Asian Review



Bro, no one should trust the Chinese. It's so obvious that they are using Laos, Cambodia, North Korea as shield.


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> Bro, no one should trust the Chinese. It's so obvious that they are using Laos, Cambodia, North Korea as shield.


ha ha ha...
just watching for the first time ever a report on the ongoing party congress, made by a Viet film team from California. revealing some interesting insights.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...
> just watching for the first time ever a report on the ongoing party congress, made by a Viet film team from California. revealing some interesting insights.



Here's another video.


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## yugocrosrb95

I don't understand Vietnamese... Whats interesting? Who's winning dammnit.


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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Price is 50 million euros.


@yugocrosrb95 Thank man, that's a nice sub...50 mil Euro that's a price of a jetfighter!!! Really like to know how this beauty doing on exercises and operations

Here an interesting article about PLA on Vietnam subs threat....We can't say that PLA is lack of confident
China's Nightmare: Vietnam's New Killer Submarines | The National Interest



yugocrosrb95 said:


> I don't understand Vietnamese... Whats interesting? Who's winning dammnit.


It still not the election yet, end of january


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## Aqsuperman

Approaching the New Year holiday yet so many things are happen , both human and natural :3

Somewhat alike with CARA-15 , light and nimble , a useful weapon for recon elements


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> @Viet Do you know why Vienam navy remove the HQ letters on the frigate? Because it use to be like this
> View attachment 289083


the Navy follows international practice. most of navies in the world have just numbers on ship wall. so does the Coast Guard. the letter CSB (Marine Police) is abandoned. look at the recent news: the Coast Guard receives 4 new boats built by *Hồng Hà shipyard*: TT-400. length 54 m, wide 9,3 m, weight 425 tons. bringing the total number of TT-400 vessels to 9.


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## yugocrosrb95

Mokaman said:


> @yugocrosrb95 Thank man, that's a nice sub...50 mil Euro that's a price of a jetfighter!!! Really like to know how this beauty doing on exercises and operations
> 
> Here an interesting article about PLA on Vietnam subs threat....We can't say that PLA is lack of confident
> China's Nightmare: Vietnam's New Killer Submarines | The National Interest
> 
> 
> It still not the election yet, end of january



The sub is designed to be operational where large subs can't like low depth near land/islands...

It is good for Vietnam, cheap and its design is suited for hit and run.

First unit is 50 million euro's which is 53-54 million USD, when serial production starts it will get cheaper.

I heard Phillipines and that country in the eat who is Armenian neighbour are interested.


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## Viet

*Party Congress*

interesting. not a common speaker, but a General of the Armed Forces announces the news, Lieutenant General Vo Tien Trung: Nguyen Phu Trong has been nominated to be the Party boss again, while four other candidates, including the actual Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, have withdrawn from the election. however, he adds the delegates can nominate any of the four who have turned down their earlier nomination.







maybe Vietnam is ready for a change: a women on the top position, as seen in Korean and Taiwan: Deputy Chairwoman of the National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan. she is one of the 4 candidates that have been nominated.

the women in red.

30 August, 2015
Japan's Prime Shinzo Abe (2nd from left) eats Japanese confectionery with his wife Akie (Centre), Liberia's President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf (Left), Vietnam's Deputy Chairwoman of the National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan (2nd from right) and US Ambassador to Japan Caroline Kennedy (Right) during a tea ceremony presentation at the World Assembly for Women conference in Tokyo yesterday. Japan kicked off the two-day "World Assembly for Women" conference on Friday. AFP PHOTO

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## Aqsuperman

VTV reporter in Syria , talking about "expanding coverage" lol


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## Viet

some more details on the satellite project with India


World | Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:22am GMT
Related: World
*India to build satellite tracking station in Vietnam that offers eye on China*
NEW DELHI/HONG KONG | By Sanjeev Miglani and Greg Torode

  



_A ship (top) of the Chinese Coast Guard is seen near a ship of the Vietnam Marine Guard in the South China Sea, about 210 km (130 miles) off the shore of Vietnam, in this May 14, 2014 file photo. Reuters/Nguyen Minh/Files_

NEW DELHI/HONG KONG India will set up a satellite tracking and imaging centre in southern Vietnam that will give Hanoi access to pictures from Indian earth observation satellites that cover the region, including China and the South China Sea, Indian officials said.

The move, which could irritate Beijing, deepens ties between India and Vietnam, who both have long-running territorial disputes with China.

While billed as a civilian facility - earth observation satellites have agricultural, scientific and environmental applications - security experts said improved imaging technology meant the pictures

 could also be used for military purposes.

Hanoi especially has been looking for advanced intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance technologies as tensions rise with China over the disputed South China Sea, they said.

"In military terms, this move could be quite significant," said Collin Koh, a marine security expert at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies. "It looks like a win-win for both sides, filling significant holes for the Vietnamese and expanding the range for the Indians."

The state-run Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) will fund and set up the satellite tracking and data reception centre in Ho Chi Minh City to monitor Indian satellite launches, the Indian officials said. Indian media put the cost at around $23 million.

India, whose 54-year-old space programme is accelerating, with one satellite launch scheduled every month, has ground stations in the Andaman and Nicobar islands, Brunei, Biak in eastern Indonesia and Mauritius that track its satellites in the initial stages of flight.

The Vietnam facility will bolster those capabilities, said Deviprasad Karnik, an ISRO spokesman.












_India earth observation satellite_



*QUID PRO QUO*

But unlike the other overseas stations, the facility will also be equipped to receive images from India's earth observation satellites that Vietnam can use in return for granting India the tracking site, said an Indian government official connected with the space programme.

*"This is a sort of quid pro quo which will enable Vietnam to receive IRS (Indian remote sensing) pictures directly, that is, without asking India,"* said the official, who declined to be identified because he was not authorised to speak to the media.

"Obviously it will include parts of China of interest to Vietnam."

Chinese coastal naval bases, the operations of its coastguard and navy and its new man-made islands in the disputed Spratly archipelago of the South China Sea would be targets of Vietnamese interest, security experts said.

Another Indian official said New Delhi would also have access to the imagery.

India has 11 earth observation satellites in orbit, offering pictures with differing resolutions and areas, the ISRO said. Indian officials had no timeframe for when the centre would be operational. "This is at the beginning stages, we are still in dialogue with Vietnamese authorities," said Karnik.

Vietnam's Foreign Ministry confirmed the project, but provided few other details.

China's Defence Ministry said the proposed tracking station wasn't a military issue. The Chinese Foreign Ministry had no immediate comment.

Vietnam launched its first earth observation satellite in 2013, but Koh said it was not thought to produce particularly high resolution images

.



*BLURRED LINES*

Security experts said Vietnam would likely seek real-time access to images from the Indian satellites as well as training in imagery analysis, a specialised intelligence field.

"The advance of technology means the lines are blurring between civilian and military satellites," said Trevor Hollingsbee, a retired naval intelligence analyst with Britain's Defence Ministry. "In some cases, the imagery from a modern civilian satellite is good enough for military use."

*Sophisticated military reconnaissance satellites can be used to capture military signals and communications, as well as detailed photographs of objects on land, capturing detail to less than a metre*, Koh and other experts said.

The tracking station will be the first such foreign facility in Vietnam and follows other agreements between Hanoi and New Delhi that have cemented security ties.

India has extended a $100 million credit line for Hanoi to buy patrol boats and is training Vietnamese submariners in India while Hanoi has granted oil exploration blocks to India in waters off Vietnam that are disputed with China.

Under Prime Minister Narendra Modi, India has shown a greater willingness to step up security ties with countries such as Vietnam, overriding concerns this would upset China, military officials said.

"You want to engage Vietnam in every sphere. The reason is obvious - China," said retired Indian Air Force group captain Ajay Lele at the New Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses.

Both India and Vietnam are also modernising their militaries in the face of Beijing's growing assertiveness, having separately fought wars with China in past decades.

Australian-based scholar Carl Thayer, who has studied Vietnam's military since the late 1960s, said the satellite tracking facility showed both nations wanted to enhance security ties. "Their interests are converging over China and the South China Sea," he said.



(Additional reporting by Megha Rajagopalan in Beijing and Ho Binh Minh in Hanoi; Editing by Dean Yates)

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## Aqsuperman

Fuel-depot for aircraft , 1 barrel is enough to buy several SH motorbike :3


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## Viet

hm...despite tension, at least one thing keeps progressing: bilateral trade. assuming the figure is correct, the VN-CN trade turnover has risen by 50% to $90 billion. that is remarkable if one considers the two way trade of China to their "friend" Russia collapsed by nearly 30 per cent last year 2015, to $64.2 billion.



Asia & Pacific
*Longtime rivals: A look at complex Vietnam-China ties*
Copyright 2016 The Associated Press








By Christopher Bodeen | AP January 24


BEIJING — Divided opinions within Vietnam’s Communist Party on how to relate to giant neighbor and one-time ally China are among key factors in play at an eight-day congress to choose new leadership. A look at the countries’ shared history and some of the most recent ups and downs in relations.

___

LONGTIME RIVALS

Vietnam and China have a complex relationship going back more than 2,000 years, including several periods of Chinese imperial occupation that were ended by Vietnamese uprisings. Despite its early support for the Vietnamese Communist Party, China invaded in 1979 in retaliation for Hanoi’s overthrow of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Diplomatic ties were restored in 1991, but tensions have risen in recent years due to competing claims to islands and reefs in the South China Sea.

___

KEEPING WATCH

China is closely observing the party congress and has emphasized the importance of China-Vietnam relations, including *$90 billion* in bilateral trade last year. “As a good neighbor, friend, comrade and partner to Vietnam, we wish to advance the overall strategic relationship into a new stage on the basis of long-term stability, forward thinking and good neighborliness,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said Friday. “We also wish to work with Vietnam to appropriately control maritime disputes with Vietnam so as to safeguard the maritime stability.”

___

OIL RIG DISPUTE

In May 2014, China parked a huge oil drilling platform off the Vietnamese coast in an area where the two countries’ exclusive economic zones overlap. Vietnam furiously denounced the move and sent fishing boats and coast guard vessels to harass the rig and nearby Chinese vessels. Skirmishes led to collisions and the capsizing of at least one Vietnamese boat, while in Vietnam anti-Chinese rioting and the looting of Chinese and other foreign-owned factories left at least four Chinese citizens dead.

___

CHINA’S OUTREACH

Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi visited Vietnam in June 2014 to try to contain the oil rig dispute. Despite receiving a frosty reception from Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, escalation was avoided. More significantly, the oil rig incident nudged Vietnam closer to its old enemy the United States, which later that year partially lifted an arms embargo specifically to help improve Vietnam’s maritime security.

___

COMPETING CLAIMS

China withdrew the rig in July 2014, one month ahead of schedule, saying it had completed its mission. The confrontation is widely seen as part of a Chinese strategy to strengthen its footprint in the South China Sea, all or part of which is also claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei. The incident also focuses renewed attention on a perceived split within the Vietnamese Communist Party between pro- and anti-China factions.

___

VIETNAM VISITS

Following a prolonged chill, Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong (pronounced NEW-yen FOO CHONG) led a delegation to Beijing in April 2015 and was greeted by President Xi Jinping with full military honors at the Great Hall of the People. Though little of substance resulted from the four-day trip visit, it is seen as helping get relations back on track.

___

MENDING TIES

China’s Xi made a state visit to Vietnam in November 2015, during which he and Trong agree to limit their differences and maintain peace and stability. Xi said China will “strive together with Vietnam to control differences at sea.” Trong proposed that neither side take actions that increase tensions. During the visit, about 30 people protested briefly in front of the Chinese Embassy in Hanoi. Xi also addressed Vietnam’s National Assembly, but avoided mentioning the South China Sea and the 1979 war.

___

TENSIONS RENEWED

Vietnam protested to China in January over a test flight to a new airstrip on one of Beijing’s man-made island in the disputed Spratly Islands. Vietnam Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh demanded an end to such flights, saying they violate Vietnam’s sovereignty and hurt bilateral relations. China responded that the flights fall “completely within China’s sovereignty.” Days later, China conducted two more test flights. The South China Sea dispute looks only to grow more complex as China completes infrastructure on its newly created islands and boosts its maritime defense forces beyond anything its rival claimants can muster.


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## Viet

a german press agency reports (not only this one): the fight is over. Nguyen Tan Dung fails to get enough support to become the next communist party chief. he will probably retire from politics when the tenure as prime minister ends.

http://www.dw.com/de/machtkampf-in-vietnam-entschieden/a-19004474


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> a german press agency reports (not only this one): the fight is over. Nguyen Tan Dung fails to get enough support to become the next communist party chief. he will probably retire from politics when the tenure as prime minister ends.
> 
> http://www.dw.com/de/machtkampf-in-vietnam-entschieden/a-19004474



So... What does it mean? Is that guy pro China?


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## Aqsuperman

Meh i always hate politics , too much trouble and headache 

Exporting ammo boxes is much better :v


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> So... What does it mean? Is that guy pro China?


no, he isn´t. he once said during the oil rig crisis, Vietnam will never trade its sovereignty for a false friendship with China. he reportely never sets a foot on China. maybe the chinese don´t like him, never inviting him to the country, because the chinese only like foot licker. not patriot like him.

“There is a vast gap between the words and deeds of China,”

“We always wish for peace and friendship, but those things must be based on independence, self-reliance, sovereignty and territorial integrity. We will never trade these sacred things for a certain false and dependent peace and friendship” .


http://www.thanhniennews.com/politi...overeignty-for-false-friendship-pm-26578.html

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## Aepsilons

yugocrosrb95 said:


> So... What does it mean? Is that guy pro China?



He will be replaced by a moderate leader.



Viet said:


> no, he isn´t. he once said during the oil rig crisis, Vietnam will never trade its sovereignty for a false friendship with China. he reportely never sets a foot on China. maybe the chinese don´t like him, never inviting him to the country, because the chinese only like foot licker. not patriot like him.
> 
> “There is a vast gap between the words and deeds of China,”
> 
> “We always wish for peace and friendship, but those things must be based on independence, self-reliance, sovereignty and territorial integrity. We will never trade these sacred things for a certain false and dependent peace and friendship” .
> 
> 
> http://www.thanhniennews.com/politi...overeignty-for-false-friendship-pm-26578.html



Nguyen Tan Dung is a nationalistic Vietnamese leader and had been pro-US, pro-Japan, and openly anti-China. I suppose and predict his successor will be more "moderate" and inclusivistic in regards to China.


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## Mokaman

Nihonjin1051 said:


> He will be replaced by a moderate leader.
> 
> 
> 
> Nguyen Tan Dung is a nationalistic Vietnamese leader and had been pro-US, pro-Japan, and openly anti-China. I suppose and predict his successor will be more "moderate" and inclusivistic in regards to China.



Nguyen Tan Dung is already pretty moderate and liberal among those dinosaurs Communist politburo members. This guy was a soldier for 23 years and was wounded 4 times during the Viet Nam war. There no more world leaders like him anymore (not a crappy talker who send others to war). I guess he know the Chinese better than anyone from the 60s till the 1979 invasion and aftermath. And all the double faces of the Chinese communist party. He is also a Southern guy, considering most politburo are of from North and still close to China

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## Aepsilons

Mokaman said:


> Nguyen Tan Dung is already pretty moderate and liberal among those dinosaurs Communist politburo members. This guy was a soldier for 23 years and was wounded 4 times during the Viet Nam war. There no more world leaders like him anymore (not a crappy talker who send others to war). I guess he know the Chinese better than anyone from the 60s till the 1979 invasion and aftermath. And all the double faces of the Chinese communist party. He is also a Southern guy, considering most politburo are of from North and still close to China



Thanks for the appraisal bro! So do you have an idea or guess on who might succeed Mr. Nguyen? Thanks!


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## Carlosa

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Thanks for the appraisal bro! So do you have an idea or guess on who might succeed Mr. Nguyen? Thanks!



The prime minister's job went to Nguyen Xuan Phuc and as I understand, he is an ally of Dung, so that looks good. That was part of the compromise.

The thing about Dung is that it really is a love / hate relationship when it comes to him. On the positive side, you can say that he is dynamic, pro western, more anti china than the others, more pro reform, more pro business, etc.

On the other hand, he is super corrupted, nearly all of them are corrupted in some degree, but he is majorly corrupted and it is well known. Add to that the fact that he mismanaged the economy during the first few years of his term (the cronies that he placed in charge of some of the SOEs such as Vinalines did major corruption there, etc) and even that he did well with the economy during the last 3 years, still, all those other things were used against him.

I think there is not going to be any changes of any significance, but its too early to say.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The prime minister's job went to Nguyen Xuan Phuc and as I understand, he is an ally of Dung, so that looks good. That was part of the compromise.
> 
> The thing about Dung is that it really is a love / hate relationship when it comes to him. On the positive side, you can say that he is dynamic, pro western, more anti china than the others, more pro reform, more pro business, etc.
> 
> On the other hand, he is super corrupted, nearly all of them are corrupted in some degree, but he is majorly corrupted and it is well known. Add to that the fact that he mismanaged the economy during the first few years of his term (the cronies that he placed in charge of some of the SOEs such as Vinalines did major corruption there, etc) and even that he did well with the economy during the last 3 years, still, all those other things were used against him.
> 
> I think there is not going to be any changes of any significance, but its too early to say.


what a surprise. I placed my bet on Nguyen Thien Nhan, the president of the Fatherland front. Nguyen Xuan Phuc is a little unknown to the public, isn´t he? well, he won´t be the only one, who decides over the course of the new government but together with the powerful 16 member politburo, that acts some sort as Senate, the first chamber of legislative.

and...Nguyễn Thị Kim Ngân becomes chairwomen of the National Assembly. the second chamber of legislative. a powerful job as the parliament recently gets more power to control the government. such as budget spending.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> what a surprise. I placed my bet on Nguyen Thien Nhan, the president of the Fatherland front. Nguyen Xuan Phuc is a little unknown to the public, isn´t he?
> 
> and...Nguyễn Thị Kim Ngân becomes chairwomen of the National Assembly.



Well, he is the one nominated for the post, but still has to be ratified by the full assembly, so things can still change, I don't know.

He is one of the vice prime ministers, I don't know much about him, but if he is ratified, there will be plenty to read about him very soon.

The National Assembly should be given more powers and some real work; this thing about meeting twice a year doesn't cut it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Structure of 12th Party Central Committee*





The average age of the 12th Party Central Committee’s 200 members is 53, as according to the list announced by the 12th National Party Congress on the afternoon of January 26.

The new Party Central Committee (PCC) has 20 female members and 17 ethnic minorities.

The re-elected included seven from the 11th tenure Political Bureau, namely *Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong*, Deputy *Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc*, National Assembly vice chairwomen Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan and Tong Thi Phong, Minister of Public Security Tran Dai Quang, Head of the Party Central Committee’s Commission for Information and Education Dinh The Huynh, and President of the Vietnam Fatherland Front Central Committee Nguyen Thien Nhan.

In terms of the age structure, among the 180 official members, 26 are under 50; 142 others in the group of 51-60; and the remainder, above 61.

The two youngest official members are Secretary of the Da Nang municipal Party Committee Nguyen Xuan Anh and Secretary of the Kien Giang provincial Party Committee Nguyen Thanh Nghi, who are both 40 years old and hold doctor degrees. Meanwhile, the youngest alternate member is 38-year-old Le Quoc Phong, Secretary of the Ho Chi Minh Communist Youth Union Central Committee.

Among the 180 official members, 51 are Secretaries of the provincial and municipal Party Committees, and 17 are Vice Secretaries of the provincial and municipal Party Committees.

Three Vice Chairpersons of the National Assembly (NA), four Heads of the NA Committees, three Heads and 14 Deputy Heads of the Party Central Committee’s Commissions were named among the new PCC’s official members.

The new PCC also consisted of four Deputy Prime Ministers, eight Ministers and Heads of ministerial-level agencies, and 24 Deputy Ministers.

Secretary of the Party Committee and Director-General of the Vietnam News Agency, Nguyen Duc Loi, is among the 180 official members of the 12th Party Central Committee.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Nguyen Xuan Phuc

Deputy Prime Minister of Vietnam, Government Office of Vietnam

Deputy Prime Minister of Viet Nam Nguyen Xuan Phuc Date of birth: July 20, 1954 Native place: Qu?ng Nam province Education: Bachelor 6/2011-now: Deputy Prime Minister. 8/2007- 6/2011: Minister-Chairman of the Office of Government, the Government. 6/2006 – 8/2007: Permanent Vice Minister- Chairman of Government Office. 3/2006-5/2006: Deputy State Inspector General. 2001 – 2006: Chairman of Quang Nam province 1997 – 2001: Vice Chairman of Quang Nam – Da Nang province. 1993 – 1996: Director of Tourism Dept., Planning and Investment Dept. of Quang Nam – Da Nang province’s people’s committee. 1980-1993: Expert, then Deputy Head, and Head of the Office of Quang Nam – Da Nang province’s people’s committee.

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## Aqsuperman

A crude self-produced M1911 back in the Vietnam War by Southern local armory . This and the Thompson SMG are 2 main weapons that are copied and made to provide a local source of weapon in the early days , partial supplement by K50M . After the standard regular weapons begin to arrived , most got scrapped , put into museum or simply got throw away


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## Carlosa

A very good article about the capabilities of submarines:

*This Could 'Sink' the U.S. Navy: Lethal Stealth Submarines*





There is no force patrolling the world’s oceans more powerful than the mighty U.S. Navy. Washington’s nuclear-powered attack and ballistic submarines, aircraft carriers and surface combatants, all guided by the best trained sailors and professionals in the world, are no match when stacked up on paper one-on-one against the likes of Russia, China, Iran or any other challenger. And as history shows, going to war against Washington in a fair-fight is suicide. However, thanks to advances in modern, ultra-quiet conventional diesel-electric submarines, Washington will need to adjust its tactics if it were to tangle with any nation sporting these increasingly sophisticated weapons of war.

To be fair, the threat of super-stealthy diesel submarines being deployed around the world has been present for decades. Still, newer boats are coming armed with advanced anti-ship weapons and are being combined with new air-independent propulsion systems (AIP) making them near impossible to find in the ocean's depths—a one-two punch that can’t be ignored.

Recent history shows only too clearly the challenge the United States and other modern navies are facing from these heavily armed, ‘stealth’ submarines. Back as far as 2005, the U.S. Navy recognized the challenge and reached out to friends and allies for help. It was that year that the HMS _Gotland_, a modern AIP submarine serving in the Swedish Navy, made its home in California for a year. The goal was to test the impact of such a boat against U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups and other important vessels. It seems the boats, much cheaper to produce than the standard American nuclear-attack subs, created quite the stir:

“Apparently the Navy got more than they were bargaining for when it came to finding and engaging the stealthy little sub. The Gotland virtually ‘sunk’ many U.S. nuclear fast attack subs, destroyers, frigates, cruisers and even made it into the 'red zone' beyond the last ring of anti-submarine defenses within a carrier strike group. Although it was rumored she got many simulated shots off on various U.S. super-carriers, one large-scale training exercise in particular with the then brand new USS _Ronald Reagan_ended with the little sub making multiple attack runs on the super-carrier, before slithering away without ever being detected. . . ”

“. . .the little Swedish sub was "so silent it literally did not exist to our sensors."

Thankfully the above were controlled exercises, crafted for America’s ‘silent service’ and surface combatant operators to understand the threat they were dealing with. However, not all encounters with ultra-quiet diesel boats have been as friendly—or just a mere exercise. Back in 2006, a Chinese _Song_-class attack submarine, created at least partially by Russian and Western technology and likely not nearly as advanced as the_Gutland_ (the _Song_-class does not have AIP technology, for example) tailed the Japan-based U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USSKitty Hawk in the East China Sea near Okinawa without being identified. While such a shadowing operation is quite normal, the sub “surfaced within five miles of the carrier, in deep waters off Okinawa, and only then was it spotted, by one of the carrier's planes on a routine surveillance flight.” Such submarines are armed with advanced anti-ship missile and wake-homing torpedoes.

Moving to the present, Russia seems to be doubling down on its development of these important vessels. Moscow is developing an even deadlier class of boats:

“The stealth capabilities of Russia’s new Lada-class diesel-electric submarines far exceed those of their predecessors, Admiraty Shipyard’s CEO Alexander Buzakov told the Russian press.

“According to Buzakov, the new vessels are even stealthier than Russian _Kilo_-class submarines, thought to be one of the quietest diesel-electric submarine classes in the world and dubbed "black holes" for their ability to "disappear” from sonars.

“The new submarines are able to maintain such a low profile thanks to a clever implementation of a next-generation anti-reflective acoustic coating and a new improved hydro-acoustic system, Buzakov said.

He also added that during the new submarines’ construction and design process, the development team managed to gather a lot of valuable data which, among other things, allowed them to significantly improve the Kilo-class submarines as well.

“The _Lada_-class submarines are designed to defend coastlines against ships and other submarines, gather intelligence, provide surveillance and reconnaissance missions, and act as a mother ship for special forces. With its new air-independent propulsion plant, a Lada submarine can remain submerged for as many as 25 days. With its vast array of weapon systems, the Lada is also world’s first non-nuclear submarine to be equipped with specialized launchers for cruise missiles.”

So, with all this being said, what should the U.S. Navy do about this challenge? A greater investment in anti-submarine warfare would be a great place to start. New detection methods could also help, although such methods could also be used against Washington’s subs. Here’s an idea: maybe America should get in on the act and get some of its own? Hmmm. . . 

_Harry Kazianis (_@grecianformula_) is the former Executive Editor of The National Interest. Mr. Kazianis presently serves as Senior Fellow (non-resident) for Defense Policy at the_Center for the National Interest_ as well as a Fellow for National Security Affairs at_The Potomac Foundation_. All opinions are his own._

Image_: Wikimedia Commons/Vitaliy Ankov / Виталий Аньков._

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> some more details on the satellite project with India
> 
> 
> World | Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:22am GMT
> Related: World
> *India to build satellite tracking station in Vietnam that offers eye on China*
> NEW DELHI/HONG KONG | By Sanjeev Miglani and Greg Torode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A ship (top) of the Chinese Coast Guard is seen near a ship of the Vietnam Marine Guard in the South China Sea, about 210 km (130 miles) off the shore of Vietnam, in this May 14, 2014 file photo. Reuters/Nguyen Minh/Files_
> 
> NEW DELHI/HONG KONG India will set up a satellite tracking and imaging centre in southern Vietnam that will give Hanoi access to pictures from Indian earth observation satellites that cover the region, including China and the South China Sea, Indian officials said.
> 
> The move, which could irritate Beijing, deepens ties between India and Vietnam, who both have long-running territorial disputes with China.
> 
> While billed as a civilian facility - earth observation satellites have agricultural, scientific and environmental applications - security experts said improved imaging technology meant the pictures
> 
> could also be used for military purposes.
> 
> Hanoi especially has been looking for advanced intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance technologies as tensions rise with China over the disputed South China Sea, they said.
> 
> "In military terms, this move could be quite significant," said Collin Koh, a marine security expert at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies. "It looks like a win-win for both sides, filling significant holes for the Vietnamese and expanding the range for the Indians."
> 
> The state-run Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) will fund and set up the satellite tracking and data reception centre in Ho Chi Minh City to monitor Indian satellite launches, the Indian officials said. Indian media put the cost at around $23 million.
> 
> India, whose 54-year-old space programme is accelerating, with one satellite launch scheduled every month, has ground stations in the Andaman and Nicobar islands, Brunei, Biak in eastern Indonesia and Mauritius that track its satellites in the initial stages of flight.
> 
> The Vietnam facility will bolster those capabilities, said Deviprasad Karnik, an ISRO spokesman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _India earth observation satellite_
> 
> 
> 
> *QUID PRO QUO*
> 
> But unlike the other overseas stations, the facility will also be equipped to receive images from India's earth observation satellites that Vietnam can use in return for granting India the tracking site, said an Indian government official connected with the space programme.
> 
> *"This is a sort of quid pro quo which will enable Vietnam to receive IRS (Indian remote sensing) pictures directly, that is, without asking India,"* said the official, who declined to be identified because he was not authorised to speak to the media.
> 
> "Obviously it will include parts of China of interest to Vietnam."
> 
> Chinese coastal naval bases, the operations of its coastguard and navy and its new man-made islands in the disputed Spratly archipelago of the South China Sea would be targets of Vietnamese interest, security experts said.
> 
> Another Indian official said New Delhi would also have access to the imagery.
> 
> India has 11 earth observation satellites in orbit, offering pictures with differing resolutions and areas, the ISRO said. Indian officials had no timeframe for when the centre would be operational. "This is at the beginning stages, we are still in dialogue with Vietnamese authorities," said Karnik.
> 
> Vietnam's Foreign Ministry confirmed the project, but provided few other details.
> 
> China's Defence Ministry said the proposed tracking station wasn't a military issue. The Chinese Foreign Ministry had no immediate comment.
> 
> Vietnam launched its first earth observation satellite in 2013, but Koh said it was not thought to produce particularly high resolution images
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *BLURRED LINES*
> 
> Security experts said Vietnam would likely seek real-time access to images from the Indian satellites as well as training in imagery analysis, a specialised intelligence field.
> 
> "The advance of technology means the lines are blurring between civilian and military satellites," said Trevor Hollingsbee, a retired naval intelligence analyst with Britain's Defence Ministry. "In some cases, the imagery from a modern civilian satellite is good enough for military use."
> 
> *Sophisticated military reconnaissance satellites can be used to capture military signals and communications, as well as detailed photographs of objects on land, capturing detail to less than a metre*, Koh and other experts said.
> 
> The tracking station will be the first such foreign facility in Vietnam and follows other agreements between Hanoi and New Delhi that have cemented security ties.
> 
> India has extended a $100 million credit line for Hanoi to buy patrol boats and is training Vietnamese submariners in India while Hanoi has granted oil exploration blocks to India in waters off Vietnam that are disputed with China.
> 
> Under Prime Minister Narendra Modi, India has shown a greater willingness to step up security ties with countries such as Vietnam, overriding concerns this would upset China, military officials said.
> 
> "You want to engage Vietnam in every sphere. The reason is obvious - China," said retired Indian Air Force group captain Ajay Lele at the New Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses.
> 
> Both India and Vietnam are also modernising their militaries in the face of Beijing's growing assertiveness, having separately fought wars with China in past decades.
> 
> Australian-based scholar Carl Thayer, who has studied Vietnam's military since the late 1960s, said the satellite tracking facility showed both nations wanted to enhance security ties. "Their interests are converging over China and the South China Sea," he said.
> 
> 
> 
> (Additional reporting by Megha Rajagopalan in Beijing and Ho Binh Minh in Hanoi; Editing by Dean Yates)


Very good news, VN-India must have a much better relationship in all fields. We also can share the military hardware together since both use lots of Russian weapons.

After Russia, India trully is a best friend that VN should go with :beers:

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## Viet

here we are: the new elected 19 member Politburo. the most powerful policy making decision body in Vietnam, with the communist party chief as head, and two women: Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan and Truong Thi Mai.






*Nguyen Phu Trong*, Party General Secretary
Tran Dai Quang
Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan
Ngo Xuan Lich
To Lam
Nguyen Xuan Phuc
Nguyen Thien Nhan
Dinh The Huynh
Pham Minh Chinh
Tong Thi Phong
Vuong Dinh Hue
Tran Quoc Vuong
Pham Binh Minh
Truong Thi Mai
Truong Hoa Binh
Nguyen Van Binh
Vo Van Thuong
Dinh La Thang
Hoang Trung Hai

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## Carlosa

*Le Quy Don Arrived in Vietnam*

28 Januari 2016




Sail training ship Le Quy Don arrived at Nha Trang harbor (photo : phapluat)

*First sail of Vietnam over storm water*
First modern sail training ship of Vietnam made the longest voyage in the history of the Vietnam People's Navy for 125 days at sea, around 3/4 of Earth.
Afternoon 27-1, first modern sail training ship of Vietnam People's Navy named scholar Le Quy Don docked at harbor Military Naval Academy in Nha Trang (Khanh Hoa).
According to Lt. Nguyen Trong Hieu, deputy training ship Le Quy Don, this sailing ship long distance training missions, combining performing diplomatic activities with other countries in the ASEAN region. Workforce seamen are 30 people, can serve 80 students to practice long distance.




Sail training ship Le Quy Don (photo : Michal Szafran)

One source said on Polish sailing ship fabrication, shipbuilding orders of the Ministry of Defense of Vietnam, in which the company CHOREN Design and Consulting Design, Marine Projects Company closed under the supervision of team the Defense Industry Holding Obronny Polski (Poland). 67 m long vessel, 10 meters wide, a total area of 1,400 m2 , the amount of 857 tons of water displacement. The vessel has three 40m high masts with sails 21, 10 rotating rod. Start production from 2-7-2014, lauch date 1-6-2015.




Sail training ship Le Quy Don (photo : jansarek)

According to Lt. Nguyen Trong Hieu, depart from Poland since 26-9-2015, sailing ship Le Quy Don and crew of the Naval Academy, the Polish specialists have made the longest voyage in calendar use Vietnam People's Navy for 125 days at sea, around 3/4 of Earth. Train went through many waters, from the Baltic Sea, the North Sea, the Atlantic Ocean to the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal, go on the Pacific, through the channel in the Philippines and the South China Sea to Vietnam.

During the first voyage, the ship sails along waterway Le Quy Don Group has faced two hurricanes, four episodes of low pressure. "Currently the crew of the Naval Academy already quite mature operations. We can operate, control ship correctly after the ship was handed over completely to Vietnam "- Nguyen Trong Hieu said.

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## Viet

welcome at home!
















Vietnam and Polish mariners and cadets

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## Carlosa

Interesting facts about the new Politburo

_VietNamNet Bridge – For the first time the Politburo of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) has three female members, including National Assembly Vice Chairs Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan and Tong Thi Phong and Chair of the National Assembly Committee for Social Affairs Truong Thi Mai._


_



_

The youngest member is Mr. Vo Van Thuong, 46, Vice Permanent Party Secretary of HCM City. The oldest member is Mr. Nguyen Phu Trong, Party Secretary General.

The politburo has only one representative of the local agency – Mr. Vo Van Thuong from HCM City.

There are three Deputy Prime Ministers in the list - Mr. Nguyen Xuan Phuc, Mr. Pham Binh Minh and Mr. Hoang Trung Hai; three Ministers – Minister of Public Security Tran Dai Quang, Minister of Transport Dinh La Thang and the Governor of the State Bank of Vietnam Nguyen Van Binh.

There are four officials from Party organizations: Mr. Vuong Dinh Hue, Head of the Central Economic Committee; Mr. Dinh The Huynh, Head of the Central Propaganda and Education Committee; Mr. Pham Minh Chinh, Deputy Head of the Central Organizing Committee; and Mr. Tran Quoc Vuong, Head of the Office of the Party Central Committee.

Three members of the Party Central Committee (not the Politburo members) were elected to the Party Secretariat, including the Chair of the Government Office - Mr. Nguyen Van Nen, Head of the Supreme People’s Procuracy Nguyen Hoa Binh, and Lieutenant General - Vice Chairman of the People's Army General Political Department Luong Cuong.

*Brief biography of the 19 Politburo members:*

_*1. Nguyen Phu Trong*_

_*



*_

Date of Birth: 14/4/1944

Hometown: Dong Hoi Commune, Dong Anh District, Hanoi

- Member of the VII, VIII, IX, X, XI, XII Party Central Committee

- Member of the VIII, IX, X, XI, XII Politburo

- Secretary of the Party Committee of the National Assembly, member of the National Council of Defense and Security

- The XI, XII, XIII National Assembly deputy.

- General Secretary of the XI, XII Party Central Committee.

Mr. Trong is a professor and doctor of political science (major in Party building) and literature.

*2. Tran Dai Quang*

*



*

Date of Birth: 12/10/1956

Hometown: Kim Son district, Ninh Binh province

- Member of the X, XI Party Central Committee.

- Politburo member, General and Minister of Public Security.

Mr. Quang is a professor and doctor of law.

*3. Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan*

*



*

Date of Birth: 12/4/1954

Hometown: Chau Hoa commune, Giong Trom district, Ben Tre province

- Member of the IX, X, XI Party Central Committee.

- Member of the Politburo and Vice Chair of the National Assembly.

Ms. Ngan holds a master degree of economics and a bachelor degree of politics.

*4. Ngo Xuan Lich*

*



*

Date of Birth: 20/4/1954

Hometown: Yen Bac commune, Duy Tien district, Ha Nam province

- Member of the X, XI Party Central Committee of the terms

- Secretary of the Party Central Committee.

- General, the Chairman of the General Political Department of the Vietnam People's Army.

*5. To Lam*

*



*

Date of Birth: 10/07/1957

Hometown: Nghia Tru commune, Van Giang district, Hung Yen province

Education: Professor, Ph.D.

Position: Senior Lieutenant General, Deputy Minister of Public Security

*6. Nguyen Xuan Phuc (the new prime minister)*

*



*

Date of Birth: 20/7/1954

Hometown: Que Phu commune, Que Son district, Quang Nam province

Educational background: Bachelor of Economics

5/2002: elected as National Assembly deputy of the 11th term.

1/6/2006: Deputy Chairman of the Government Office

4/2006: elected to the 10th Party Central Committee

2007: Chairman of the Government Office

1/2011: elected to the 11th Party Central Committee and the Politburo.

8/2011: elected as Vice Prime Minister.

*7. Nguyen Thien Nhan*

*



*

Date of Birth: 12/6/1953

Hometown: Tra Phuong commune, Chau Thanh district, Tra Vinh province

Education: Professor, Ph.D.

Position: Politburo member, Chairman of the Vietnam Fatherland Front

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## Carlosa

*8. Dinh The Huynh*

*



*

Date of Birth: 15/5/1953

Hometown: Nam Dinh

- Member of the IX, X, XI Party Central Committee.

- Politburo member; Secretary of the Party Central Committee; Head of the Central Propaganda and Education Committee; Chairman of the Central Theoretical Council.

Educational background: Doctor of journalism

*9. Pham Minh Chinh*

*



*

Date of Birth: 10/2/1958

Hometown: Hoa Loc commune, Hau Loc district, Thanh Hoa province

Education: Associate Professor, Ph.D.

Position: Deputy Head of the Central Organizing Committee (from 4/2015)

*10. Tong Thi Phong*

*



*

Date of Birth: 10/2/1954

Hometown: Chieng An Ward, Son La City, Son La Province

- Member of the VIII, IX, X, XI Party Central Committee

- Member of the 11th Politburo

- Secretary of the IX, X Party Central Committee.

- Vice Chair of the XII, XIII National Assembly

Educational background: Bachelor of Law

*11. Vuong Dinh Hue*

*



*

Date of Birth: 15/3/1957

Hometown: Nghi Xuan commune, Nghi Loc district, Nghe An

Educational background: Professor, Doctor of Economics

Member of the Party Central Committee, Head of the Central Economic Committee

Deputy of the 13th National Assembly

*12. Tran Quoc Vuong*

*



*

Date of Birth: 5/2/1953

Hometown: An Ninh commune, Tien Hai district, Thai Binh

Educational background: Master of Law

Member of the Party Central Committee, Chairman of the Office of the Party Central Committee

Deputies to the 12th, 13th National Assembly

*13. Pham Binh Minh*

*



*

Date of Birth: 26/3/1959

Hometown: Lien Minh Commune, Vu Ban district, Nam Dinh

Educational background: Master of International Relations and Law

Member of the Party Central Committee, Secretary of the Party Committee of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Deputy PM, Minister of Foreign Affairs, member of the National Council for Defense and Security

13th National Assembly deputy

*14. Truong Thi Mai*

*



*

Date of Birth: 23/1/1958

Hometown: Hien Ninh commune, Quang Ninh district, Quang Binh

Educational background: Master of Public Administration, Bachelor of laws, Bachelor of history

Member of the Party Central Committee, member of the National Assembly Standing Committee, Chair of the National Assembly Committee on Social Affairs

*15. Nguyen Van Binh*

*



*

Date of Birth: 4/3/1961

Hometown: Phu Tho town, Phu Tho province

Education: Doctor of Science

Governor of the State Bank of Vietnam (7/2011)

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## Carlosa

*16. Truong Hoa Binh*

*



*

Date of Birth: 13/4/1955

Hometown: Long Duoc Dong commune, Can Giuoc district, Long An province

- Secretary of the Party Central Committee.

- Chief Justice of the Supreme People's Court.

Educational background: Master of Law, bachelor degrees of the University of Technology, University of Public Security

*17. Vo Van Thuong*

*



*

Date of Birth: 13/12/1970

Hometown: Mang Thit, Vinh Long province

Educational background: Master of Philosophy

Mr. Vo Van Thuong, a member of the Party Central Committee, former First Secretary of the Ho Chi Minh Youth Union and Party Secretary of Quang Ngai Province, was appointed Deputy Party Secretary of HCM City in April 2014.

He studied philosophy at the Ho Chi Minh City National University and became the Deputy Secretary of the school’s Youth Union in 1992. Seven years later, he received a Master of Philosophy degree.

In 1995, he was elected Vice President and Secretary General of the HCM City Students’ Association. Five years later, he ascended to the association’s presidency and then was elected chairman of the Vietnam Students’ Association.

In 2002, he was elected Deputy Secretary and Chairman of the HCM City Youth Union. A year later, he was elected Secretary.

At the National Party Congress in 2006, Thuong was elected an alternate member of the Party Central Committee. In January 2011, he was elected a member of the 11th Party Central Committee.

Before being elected as Deputy Party Secretary of Ho Chi Minh City, Thuong served as the First Secretary of the Ho Chi Minh Youth Union, a deputy in the 12th National Assembly and Party Secretary of the central province of Quang Ngai, from August 2011.

*18. Dinh La Thang*

*



*

Date of Birth: 10/9/1960

Hometown: Yen Binh commune, Y Yen district, Nam Dinh

Educational background: Doctor of Economics, Bachelor of Finance and Accounting

Member of the Party Central Committee; Minister of Transport

Deputy to the 11th, 13th National Assembly

*19. Hoang Trung Hai*

*



*

Date of Birth: 27/9/1959

Hometown: Quynh Giao commune, Quynh Phu district, Thai Binh

Educational background: Master of Business Administration, Senior Engineer of Power System

Member of the Party Central Committee, member of the Party Committee of the Government, Deputy Prime Minister

Deputies to the 8th, 11th and 13th National Assembly

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Viettel will build a vertical launched anti-aircraft missile system!*

*



*

http://soha.vn/quan-su/viettel-se-c...ong-thang-dung-hien-dai-20160128103607469.htm

The Google translation is pretty bad and no enough details anyway, but according to the picture, it seems to be quite sophisticated.

It seems like after Viettel success in making an advanced C4ISR (command, control, communications, computing, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) system for the Vietnamese military, it has gained the trust needed to develop other advanced high tech military projects.


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## Mokaman

Viva_Viet said:


> Very good news, VN-India must have a much better relationship in all fields. We also can share the military hardware together since both use lots of Russian weapons.
> 
> After Russia, India trully is a best friend that VN should go with :beers:


''The enemy of my enemy is my best friend". India is doing a great job helping Viet Nam, as long as the Indians treat the Vietnameses as their equals and not like their subalterns. For all the Indian helps, the least the VPA could do was to train the Indians army for jungle warfare, they need some advices to fight those Maoist guerrilla in the North-East



Carlosa said:


> The prime minister's job went to Nguyen Xuan Phuc and as I understand, he is an ally of Dung, so that looks good. That was part of the compromise.
> 
> The thing about Dung is that it really is a love / hate relationship when it comes to him. On the positive side, you can say that he is dynamic, pro western, more anti china than the others, more pro reform, more pro business, etc.
> 
> On the other hand, he is super corrupted, nearly all of them are corrupted in some degree, but he is majorly corrupted and it is well known. Add to that the fact that he mismanaged the economy during the first few years of his term (the cronies that he placed in charge of some of the SOEs such as Vinalines did major corruption there, etc) and even that he did well with the economy during the last 3 years, still, all those other things were used against him.
> 
> I think there is not going to be any changes of any significance, but its too early to say.



Agree, Dung open the Vietnamese economy to another level and with that another level of corruption. When so much money is around in a poor country, temptation is at every corner. Like they say about corruption ((Everybody have a price tag, just give the right number)). But if we look at China, it not that pretty either. They are just as corrupted and bad. I guess that the price to pay to modernize a country and eventually a big solid middle class would lower down the corruption.

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## Aqsuperman

Oh those days :3


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## Viet

ah...ok, three women, not two as I previously stated. it is interesting how a communist party congress drew so much attentions from overseas. over 100 foreign agencies followed the meeting, making daily reports. I wonder how the Politburo makes decisions? on consensus or majority voting? or if the voting is unclear, they call on the larger group Central Committee for a final decision?

...and the three persons on the top posts:

Nguyen Phu Trong as Communist chief is northerner.
Nguyen Xuan Phuc as Prime Minister is from the central region.
Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan as National Assembly Chairwomen comes from southern Vietnam.

well balanced in geography.








...what will happen to Dung? his tenure as Prime Minister will end this year.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Viettel will build a vertical launched anti-aircraft missile system!*
> 
> 
> http://soha.vn/quan-su/viettel-se-c...ong-thang-dung-hien-dai-20160128103607469.htm
> 
> The Google translation is pretty bad and no enough details anyway, but according to the picture, it seems to be quite sophisticated.
> 
> It seems like after Viettel success in making an advanced C4ISR (command, control, communications, computing, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) system for the Vietnamese military, it has gained the trust needed to develop other advanced high tech military projects.


soha is wellknown for spreading rumours and speculations. but in this case, the news is not necessary total nonsense.



Industry
*Vietnamese government commits to expanding defence industrial capabilities*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
25 January 2016

The 12th National Congress of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) has outlined a commitment to further develop the country's defence industrial base in light of escalating security threats in Southeast Asia.

At the week-long congress, which ends 28 January and will shape government policies until 2020, senior officials of the CVP have made reference to expanding capability in Vietnam to produce "weapons, ammunition, and technical equipment", and have also stated a requirement to support continued development through "international integration".

In a report submitted to the congress, cited by the Ministry of Defence, General Ngo Xuan Lich, chief of the Vietnam People's Army's (VPA's) general political department, said a developed defence industry was required to support the VPA's efforts to "safeguard the country's independence, sovereignty, unity, and territorial integrity".

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## Aqsuperman

Wish the gun actually fire some rounds :v

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> soha is wellknown for spreading rumours and speculations. but in this case, the news is not necessary total nonsense..



Yes, I know that about Soha, but this time they are directly quoting a Viettel official, so it should be reliable. ComCom also posted the article.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, I know that about Soha, but this time they are directly quoting a Viettel official, so it should be reliable. ComCom also posted the article.


Hope so. The re-elected communist boss mentions defense of the homeland in his report to the party congress, is one of the four key goals:

- clean up corruption and advance democratic process in the party
- continue with economic reforms, integrating Vietnam into world economy
- defence
- industrialization

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## Viet

*Analysis: Successful leader in Vietnam needs to be faceless*



By VIJAY JOSHI 12 hours ago





HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — Vietnam's latest political turnover made one thing abundantly clear: being a strong, charismatic leader with a high domestic and international profile will only lead to your downfall. To be successful in Vietnamese politics, you have to work with consensus — and be, for the most part, faceless.

Vietnam's Communist Party ended a weeklong congress on Wednesday sticking with the status quo by re-electing Nguyen Phu Trong as party general secretary, the country's No. 1 leader, for a second five-year term. A contender, reform-minded Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, was cut to size and ousted from the collective leadership because he was seen by party bosses to have become too big for his boots.

Collective leadership is key to understanding how Vietnam's one-party Communist system works.

After Ho Chi Minh, the founding father of modern Vietnam, the party has studiously avoided cultivating a personality cult. Even Vo Nguyen Giap, a celebrated war hero, was never allowed the pedestal after he became a politician. All he got was a state funeral. Not even a statue or a bust or a portrait.

So no surprises that unlike China — its ideological ally where top leaders have been larger-than-life figures such as Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping and Xi Jinping — Vietnam prefers leaders who do not hog the limelight, and rule by consensus through a Politburo, the elite cream of the party.

Dung was anything but that.

"Dung was more charismatic, becoming a popular figure and generally seen to be becoming larger than the party, which did not go down well with the others who still have the old-fashioned notion that the country should be run by a faceless collective leadership," said Murray Hiebert, a Southeast Asian expert at a Washington, D.C., think tank.

So what does that partial change in leadership mean for Vietnam? Will the economic reforms that Dung was carrying out stop? Will Vietnam start kowtowing to China, with whom Dung had apparently crossed swords? Will corruption and nepotism, which Dung was accused of fostering, cease? Will Vietnam move away from the U.S.?

The answers are no.

Dung and Trong clashed over style, not ideology.

Trong obliquely referred to Dung's style in post-congress comments to the media, saying that even though Vietnam's Communist Party is one-party rule, "we also have principles of democracy and accountability of the leaders. Otherwise, good deeds would be credited to individuals while failure would be blamed on the group and no one would be disciplined."

 


FILE - In this Thursday, Jan. 28, 2016, file photo, Central Committee members pose for a group photo …

Under Dung, Vietnam's annual per capita GDP tripled to $2,100. The economy grew 6.7 percent last year, and foreign investment reached a record $14.5 billion. Vietnam has become an attractive destination for foreign manufacturers looking for cheap labor as an alternative to China.

As the least developed member of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a 12-nation agreement led by the U.S. to lower trade barriers, Vietnam will benefit the most, according to Fitch Ratings.

All this was seen as Dung's work. For sure, the economic reforms will slow down under the more conservative Trong, especially over the next six months until Dung is replaced by Nguyen Xuan Phuc.

Phuc may not "be a strong personality," but in Vietnam "individuals do not have a very big role, because most of the policies are a collective decision," said Le Hong Hiep, a visiting Vietnamese fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asia Studies in Singapore.

Trong and his allies in the Politburo are aware of the need to push for economic reforms, because the party's existence depends on it.

It relies heavily on foreign investment and international trade to maintain growth, while domestic enterprises — both state-owned and private — are weak and beset with problems.

Some say that Dung's departure may not be such a bad thing.

Despite projecting the image of a pro-Western reformist, he also "sat at the apex of a vast network of rent-seeking interests that involve the government bureaucracy and many large companies in both the state and private sectors," said Alexander L. Vuving, an international relations and Vietnam expert based in Hawaii.

"Dung's exit means that a major obstacle to institutional reform and the reform of state-owned companies has been removed," he said.

It is also wrong to assume that Dung was anti-China as Beijing expands its territorial ambitions in the South China Sea. In fact, Dung may well have been China's choice for the next party leader, Vuving said.

Dung's approach to China was a mixture of nationalist rhetoric, dramatic action, and economic engagement.

Vuving said he was instrumental in tightening Vietnam's structural dependence on China, and in fact China showed more aggression in Vietnamese waters on two occasions when Dung suffered humiliating rebukes by the Politburo at the hands of Trong's camp in 2014 and earlier this year. Apparently it was a subtle warning to Trong to leave Dung alone.

But Dung's exit this week shows the limits of China's ability to influence Vietnam's political decisions, and most observers agree Trong will not allow Beijing to ride roughshod over Vietnam.

"Vietnam will continue to veer farther — but not too far —from China, and closer —but not too close —to the United States," said Vuving.

A larger question is about the pervasive corruption, which Dung is accused of promoting through patronage politics. Trong will go after that, and it's possible that corruption will be reduced at the top leadership.

But don't have too many expectations.

"Corruption is pretty hard-wired in the system, although some obviously have their hands deeper in the trough than others," said Hiebert. 

For the vast majority of Vietnam's 93 million people, one more thing is clear: No matter who is at the helm, they, the people, will not have a direct say in electing their leaders as long as the Communist Party maintains its 40-year-old grip on power.

__
_
Joshi is AP's news director for Southeast Asia and has covered the region for nearly two decades. Tran Van Minh in Hanoi and Grant Peck in Bangkok contributed to this report._

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> - *clean up corruption* and advance democratic process in the party



I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam's National Congress: With Dung out, will reform slow? *

Vietnam has just finished its 12th National Congress, the five-yearly event that decides the direction of the country. It is largely conducted behind closed doors, with the local press carrying little more than official statements or excitable-yet-boilerplate copy (see here for some communist elan).

However, there have been some notable changes: two-term Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung failed in his bid to become General Secretary, the ranks of the Politburo and other bodies now have a substantial number of members drawn from the police and security services, and relations with Beijing have been under the spotlight after it moved an oil rig into contested waters just before the Congress began.

I covered the last National Congress in 2011. Like this one, Hanoi was going through an especially miserable winter and the city's mood was low. Corruption and inflation were on everyone's minds and the Government knew citizens' unhappiness couldn't simply be dismissed or managed forever. Dung survived that last Congress and flew into a second term after suggestions he may not have made it. After protests over the Central Highlands bauxite mines he had fought for, and the bullet train project which the legislative National Assembly voted down, it seemed he had been given a second chance to pursue his vision for an industrialised Vietnam by 2020.

I quoted departing General Secretary Nong Duc Manh at the time apologising for the teetering economy and other systemic problems: 'Quality, efficiency and competitiveness remain low. Bureaucracy, corruption, wastefulness, social vices and moral and lifestyle degradation have not been prevented,' he said.

Manh's words bear thinking about now. While much of the coverage has centered on what the latest changes mean for the balancing of US-China relations, the more important story might be how reforms will continue under the new order. With internationalist and 'reformer' Dung not even making it onto the ballot and Secretary Trong staying on for two more years (despite at 72 being seven years over official retirement age), some have questioned Vietnam's direction. However, the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) will make some economic reforms inevitable.

A Reuters story from Thursday quoted a less-than-dynamic Trong as saying, 'My age is high, health is limited, knowledge is limited. I asked to step down, but because of the responsibility assigned by the party I have to perform my duty.' A certain amount of self- deprecation is not uncommon among Vietnam's older generation, but Trong also said that while work load was 'heavy' he was committed to keep Vietnam on the path of modernisation.

Pham Binh Minh, a man credited with 'balancing' US and China ties, retains his post as Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister.

Much of the foreign coverage centres on the idea of a binary within the Party: a pro-China and a pro-US camp. This is a broadly useful

lens; old school Party men who want to stick to a Marxist-Leninist path, or at least keep close to Beijing's version of market-oriented socialism, versus reformers and technocrats who realise the world is changing. However it's a limited way of seeing things.

Firstly, Vietnam's foreign policy has never been simply a zero-sum game between great powers. I've written on Vietnam's long standing multilateralism before, and suggested that Australia might benefit from closer ties. Vietnam pursues strategic relations with all permanent members of the UN Security Council, other Asian nations, has good ties with ASEAN and has a longstanding relationship with India (there is a park named for Indira Gandhi in Hanoi), while still quietly competing for influence with China in Laos and Cambodia.

However it's also certain that Beijing's influence is being questioned in some quarters and the general population remains deeply suspicious of China and furious at any slight against Vietnamese sovereignty. That's why China's placement of its enormous oil rig into disputed waters just before Congress seems even more strange. When HD 981 moved into Vietnam's exclusive economic zone in 2014, protests in Vietnam went beyond the usual group of the angry but educated marching around Hoan Kiem Lake. Factories burned, people were killed, Chinese citizens were actually evacuated from Vietnam and relations badly damaged. This episode, compounded by China's island-building, sent the 'pro-China' General Secretary Trong to Washington last year in an unprecedented visit.

On the deployment of the oil rig, Professor Carlyle Thayer of the Australian Defense Force Academy wrote, 'If the deployment of the HD 981 was decided to coincide with the holding of the 12th national congress it was an ill-timed decision that will be counter-productive. In 2014 when China first deployed the HD 981 the first causalty was strategic trust between Hanoi and Beijing.'

Voice of America reported however, that 'Other analysts say the election reveals China's strong hand in the region, and its pressure on its neighbor. Members of Vietnam's General Assembly visited Beijing in December, where some suspect China voiced its concerns about the government's ties with the U.S.'

That visit was less public than Xi Jinping's last year, and certainly garnered less interest than Trong's meeting with Obama. Possibly, real relations between Hanoi and Beijing remain as shadowy as many of the 'grey men' in the Politburo, while ties with the US are always more interesting and showy.

But what else has come from the Congress?

Dung, as Carlyle Thayer said to Bloomberg, didn't have a chance. He 'wasn't even a starter, although he had support earlier in the year.' David Brown, another longtime Vietnam watcher always worth reading, wrote in the Asia Sentinel, 'Chatter on the cybersphere credits Trong with skilful manipulation of party rules and a whispering campaign that caught Dung wrong-footed.'

A southerner, when northerners have always held the top positions,

Dung was noted as a reformer when he came to office. But his real taste for reform was economic, not political. A little more freedom of speech might be granted in service of economic goals, such as WTO accession, but as a rule civil liberties remained as curtailed as ever, especially in regards to mentions of his own considerable fortune or family power (Dung's Harvard-educated son-in-law brought McDonald's to Vietnam).

The worry is now with Trong as place-holder General Secretary and a new, less personality-driven Prime Minister in Nguyen Xuan Phuc, the already slow pace of reform and liberalisation may slow further. As I said, the TPP will alleviate some of those issues. It was the Central Committee (which helps decide the Politburo and top positions) which pushed ahead with the trade agreement, in large part to lessen economic dependence on China, a longstanding problem and a thorny political issue. Others, such as chair of the legislative National Assembly Ms Nguyen Kim Ngan, will push ahead with instituting TPP reforms.

What else matters? Arguably, so long as internet use is not curtailed, people care less about freedom of speech than about a strong economy, reducing corruption and an ending police violence. The latter is particularly important. There have been several high profile cases in recent years of citizens being beaten to death by police for minor infractions. However, the former head of the Ministry of Public Security is now President (not a role which carries much power, but it still has clout), and many others drawn from the ranks of the police have assumed important positions. Without sounding

prematurely alarmist, this could be cause for worry.

Figuring out Vietnamese politics from the outside is always an imprecise exercise, one reason why the death of Hanoi's sacred and mythical turtle Cu Rua two days before Congress began was greeted with such horror, to the point where the Government initially banned papers from reporting on it. In legend, the creature helped Emperor Le Loi defeat the Chinese, and the creature washed up dead in Hoan Kiem Lake at around the same time the Chinese moved their rig into place. What did that say, wondered a still-superstitious citizenry often kept in the dark by their Government? Was the turtle's death a sign of terrible things to come, or a chance for renewal?

Reprinted with permission from the Lowy Interpreter


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## Viet

from a live fire exercise. bombarding virtual enemy positions by heavy artillery.

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## Viet

the comments to the article on the diplomat are worth reading, too.


http://thediplomat.com/2016/01/vietnam-should-abandon-non-alignment-now/

*Vietnam Should Abandon Non-Alignment Now*
The outcome of the recent Party Congress provides Hanoi with the opportunity to rethink its foreign policy.

By Nhung Bui
January 29, 2016





_Image Credit: Official White House Photo_


This month, Vietnam’s 12th Party Congress reappointed the conservative leader Nguyen Phu Trong for another term as the party’s General Secretary.

In the wake of this political reshuffling, it is important for Vietnamese leaders to rethink their foreign policy directions and explore new strategies to deal with an assertive China. In particular, while Trong’s victory is a disappointment to those championing broader economic liberalization, it provides a window of opportunity for Vietnam’s leaders to abandon the principle of non-alignment which has long served as a basic guideline in its foreign policy without provoking a severe backlash from China.

Vietnam’s non-alignment principle is part of the “three nos” package, summed up as no participation in military alliances, no foreign military bases on Vietnamese territory, and no reliance on one country to fight against another. Supporters of the principle believe that maintaining equal distance between the great powers would serve Vietnam’s interests, for leaning towards the United States would only provoke counterbalancing actions by China.

Yet rising tensions in the South China Sea between Vietnam and China have led to a fierce debate about the merits of this approach, with many voices calling Vietnam to abandon its non-alignment stance. These reformist voices argue that Vietnam needs greater concrete support from and even a military alliance with an outside power – potentially the United States – in order to protect its territory against China’s encroachments.

While there are merits to both sides of the argument, there is a middle path that Vietnam can walk by simultaneously abandoning the non-alignment policy as well as avoid provoking China. General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, who has been less outspoken about China’s assertive actions, is arguably in a better position to walk this path than former premier Nguyen Tan Dung, considered by western observers as a pro-West reformer and vocal opponent of China’s aggressive actions. Secretary Trong can better convince Chinese counterparts that even if Vietnam drops its non-alignment position, it would not form an alliance with an outside actor any time soon. If, on the other hand, the same announcement came from former prime minister Dung, Chinese leaders would take this as a sign that Vietnam is seriously pursuing a balancing posture.

Critics of the current non-alignment stance argue that Vietnam needs to form alliances with external actors in order to check China’s expansion, a position that is reasonable given China’s extensive island reclamation projects and its provocative installation of the Haiyang Shiyou 981 oil rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone in 2014.

However, an alliance with the United States or Japan cannot be realized overnight and Vietnam needs time to convince these countries to support it. Even though the United States and Japan have tensions with China, there are limits right now to how far these countries can go to back Vietnam in its territorial disputes. While they might be ready to aid Vietnam’s procurement of surveillance vessels and aircrafts, they would probably be unwilling to provide concrete commitments. The United States is already facing a headache because it is obliged by treaty to defend the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands. More broadly, divergent interests and the gap in the willingness to fight would make the United States and Japan unlikely to form a significant pact with Vietnam soon.

Even though drastic alignment changes are unlikely in this sense, abandoning the non-alignment policy now can be beneficial down the road. First, it would signal to other actors with similar interests that Vietnam is willing to consider forming an alliance as an option. This possibility would at least generate interest and policy debates in the United States, Japan or the Philippines. Politicians and military personnel could at least incorporate the possibility of an alliance with Vietnam in back-up scenarios. The change would also stimulate discussions among civilian analysts and the public. These debates and contingency plans could in the long run facilitate policy shifts when actors are willing to commit.






_General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong during a 2015 visit to the United States.
Image Credit: U.S. State Department photo_


In short, while abandoning the “three nos” policy right now might not lead to an alliance in two years, it could lead to one in ten years. Getting various constituencies on board in general or planning for specific measures like a new military base takes time in these countries. Thus, it is in Vietnam’s interest to at least start the ball rolling now. Of course, Hanoi needs to buy time for all of this to happen, which will require reassuring Beijing in the meantime which Secretary Trong would be more capable of doing.

Second, Beijing might even see an opportunity for itself if Hanoi drops its non-alignment principle if the latter can signal that its alignment choices are still open; in order words, that leaning towards the United States is not the default option. In recent years, certain influential voices in China have called the country to pursue external alliances. If China wants to lead Asia, these individuals contend, it needs to bridge the great gap with the United States, which has a number of reliable and strong allies and security partners in the region. China’s reaction to Vietnam’s abandoning the non-alignment principle under Secretary Trong is still uncertain. The response would depend on how well the new leadership can convince Beijing that no drastic change would occur any time soon and how well they take advantage of Beijing’s own insecurities while firmly protecting Vietnamese interests.

Most importantly, the dangerous scenario that Hanoi needs to protect itself against is a much more aggressive and belligerent Beijing intent on controlling the South China Sea and dominating Vietnamese politics and economics. If this happens in the future and Vietnam decides late in the game to abandon its non-alignment policy, it would send a strong signal to China that Vietnam is seeking help from the outside and is balancing against China. A much more hawkish China would respond with severe forms of punishment. At that time, it would be even harder for Vietnam to maintain strategic ambiguity between the two camps.

In short, abandoning the “three nos” at this point – when Vietnam’s position towards China and the United States is still somewhat balanced with the reappointment of Secretary Trong – is likely more advantageous than at a later point, when an action like that, and especially from a more outspoken leader, would send a much more decisive signal. Vietnam’s leaders should not assume that maintaining the status-quo would help them in the long run; rather they should take this opportunity, while Chinese leaders seem to be content with the Vietnamese party congress outcome, to shake off the non-alignment principle.


_Nhung Bui is a PhD Candidate in the Politics Department at Princeton University and a research associate at the Center for International Studies (SCIS) at the University of Social Sciences and Humanities in Ho Chi Minh City. She works on media and nationalist propaganda in China and Vietnam._

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnamese M113 crew in Cambodia back in the 80s , the M2 Browing still remain in many M113 as the primary weapon ........which i dont know how we can supply it with ammunition after so many years :v


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I'll believe it when I see it.


I understand your sceptism. I wish one day we can reach a niveau as nearly free of corruption as the country Singapore. but it is a long way to go.

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## Nike

is any piece of news about Sigma class project?


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## Viet

Nữ quân nhân của Quân đội Nhân dân Việt Nam
women in the VPA


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> is any piece of news about Sigma class project?


latest rumour says the whole project is dead, cancelled due to financial reason.
I assume the US Congress is not in the mood yet to lift arms embargo on Vietnam.


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## Aqsuperman

madokafc said:


> is any piece of news about Sigma class project?


Temporary down for the count , same as the T55M3 . Maybe if a diamond mine is discover then they might return 

Galil Ace 31 , Special Pursose verison


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## Viet

some domestic made toys

100mm granate launcher














12.7mm sniper gun






target finder






granates and propellants of different caliber





RPG





more RPG

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## Aqsuperman

Well i guess this guy still prove useful against light armored vehicle


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## Viet

*Vietnam backs latest US challenge to Beijing’s sovereignty in South China Sea, say analysts*



PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 02 February, 2016, 10:33am
Kristine Kwok
kristine.kwok@scmp.com






A file picture of the USS Curtis Wilbur, which sailed close to an island claimed by Beijing in the South China Sea on Saturday. Photo: AFP



Washington may claim its latest operation in the South China Sea was aimed at challenging Vietnamese territorial claims in the region as much as China’s, but analysts say Hanoi is likely to have viewed the development positively.

The USS Curtis Wilbur sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the Paracel archipelago on Saturday, attracting immediate protest from Beijing, which claims and controls the area.

But Hanoi, another claimant of the island as well as others in the Paracels, issued a relatively mild response the next day, saying all countries should make a “positive and practical contribution to the peace and stability” of the sea.

“As a state party to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, Vietnam respects the right of innocent passage through its territorial seas conducted in accordance with the relevant rules of the international community,” Vietnamese foreign ministry spokesperson Le Hai Binh said in a statement posted on the ministry’s website.

*READ MORE: China urged to get tough with the United States over USS Curtis Wilbur’s sail-by near Triton Island in disputed South China Sea*

Like previous patrols under its “freedom of navigation” operations, the US navy said that by sending the destroyer it had sought to challenge attempts by the multiple claimants to restrict navigation rights in the area. Triton Island is claimed by mainland China, Taiwan and Vietnam.

But analysts said the US operations mainly targeted China’s ambitions and that Vietnam would see them as a positive move.

“The fact is that the Paracels are now occupied by China,” said Le Hong Hiep, a visiting research fellow at the ISEAS-Yusof Ishak Institute in Singapore.

*“From the Vietnamese perspective it’s good because it challenges the Chinese claim.”*

The US defence ministry said no claimant had been notified prior to the navy operation.

But Hiep said Saturday’s operation was likely to have involved a mutual understanding between Washington and Hanoi. Many analysts in China said the latest patrol was an escalation of the freedom of navigation operations, which began when the USS Lassen sailed near Subi Reef in the Spratly islands in October.

Some called for a more robust response from Beijing. The Pentagon said no Chinese naval ships were in the area at the time of the operation.

China and Vietnam have long been locked in a sovereignty dispute in the South China Sea. Beijing sent a large oil rig to Triton Island in 2014 and later to other areas, sparking the worst diplomatic crisis between the two countries in decades.

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## Aqsuperman

Welcome home

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## Viet

Frigate _Đinh Tiên Hoàng _arrives India for International Fleet Review 2016.

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## Aqsuperman

Preparing ammunition for an excersise . Mainly the 7.62mm for LMG and the 23mm for auto-cannon


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## Viet

...and now the opposite opinion



*Vietnam Should Not Abandon Non-Alignment in its Foreign Policy *
Calls for Hanoi to shift its approach are unrealistic and problematic.

By Ngo Di Lan for The Diplomat
February 03, 2016







In a recent article for _The Diplomat_, Nhung Bui essentially argues that Vietnam should abandon its non-alignment foreign policy because such course of action provides Hanoi with more flexibility in the longer term and best serves Vietnam’s security interests in the face of an increasingly assertive China. Although her arguments are reasonable and merit a close reading, I ultimately disagree with her analysis and conclusion. Abandoning non-alignment without provoking Beijing is hardly realistic and in any event, pursuing the current hedging strategy is still the best way to serve Vietnamese national interests.

Nhung opens by arguing that “there is a middle path that Vietnam can walk by simultaneously abandoning the non-alignment policy as well as avoid provoking China” and that given General Secretary Trong’s conservative and possibly pro-China credentials, he is well-suited to convince Beijing of Hanoi’s benign intentions in the event Vietnam abandons its non-alignment principle and more specifically, the “three Nos” policy. Theoretically, she is correct but realistically, this is impossible for several reasons.

First of all, Chinese leaders are not naive, they certainly know that in the past few years, Vietnam-U.S relations have been much better than Vietnam-China relations. After all, Obama broke the protocol in giving Trong a head-of-state’s welcome and the U.S has eased its arms embargo on Vietnam. While I cannot recall the last time the U.S and Vietnam had a diplomatic crisis, the May 2014 oil rig crisis between China and Vietnam easily comes to mind. Beijing is also not under any illusion that Vietnam is buying Russian submarines in order to counterbalance the U.S Navy. In this context, I could not imagine how abandoning non-alignment could be interpreted charitably in Beijing. Thus Nhung’s claim that by abandoning non-alignment, Hanoi would allow Beijing to “see an opportunity” to form an alliance with Hanoi in the future, is largely wishful thinking. As long as the South China Sea (SCS) dispute remains, the chance of a Sino-Vietnamese alliance is practically zero.

Secondly, while she is right that Trong is better positioned than Dung to convince China that “even if Vietnam drops its non-alignment position, it would not form an alliance with an outside actor any time soon,” this is still problematic for two reasons.

*First*, just because Trong can do a better job than Dung does not mean he would be able to successfully convince the Chinese. After all, anti-Chinese sentiments in Vietnam is only growing stronger by the day and in Vietnam, even the top leader cannot impose his will on the rest, given institutional structure.

*Second*, even if Trong were able to do so, knowing that Vietnam would “not form an alliance with an outside actor any time soon” is hardly assuring from Beijing’s perspective. After all, the implication is that one day Vietnam might seek an alliance and that would not be something China looks forward to.

Even if abandoning non-alignment without provoking Beijing were realistic, it is still not the best course of action for Vietnam. Nhung apparently assumes that the United States or Japan might seek an alliance with Vietnam in the future. Yet this is highly unlikely. The United States is already overstretched in terms of resources and commitment and it would not formally pledge to defend an ally that it has little control over for fear of entrapment, which is the same reason why the U.S rejected a defense treaty proposal in 2015. Given Japan’s history with China, Tokyo would not to exacerbate tensions further by formally committing to an ally whom Tokyo would probably not able to defend given the distance and its military capacity. Thus abandoning alignment does not invite others to form alliances with Vietnam. If Vietnam’s security were so vital to U.S interests, they would come to Vietnam’s aid anyway, just as they defended Kuwait in the face of Iraqi invasion despite having no formal alliance with Kuwait.

Contrarily, genuine non-alignment actually gives Vietnam some real diplomatic flexibility. While I am pessimistic about resolving the SCS dispute diplomatically, I also believe that abandoning non-alignment and therefore provoking hostility from Beijing would mean that there would be absolutely no chance of resolving this dispute peacefully through diplomatic means. This diplomatic flexibility also allows Vietnam to continue benefiting from its ties with China for the time being while reducing the risk of abandonment for Vietnam in the unlikely event that the U.S and China could somehow cut a deal in the future.

The only way for Vietnam to inch closer to the U.S and avoid provoking China at the same time is to actually pursue the current hedging strategy. After all, the current strategy does not force Vietnam to be exactly halfway between the two superpowers. It only requires Vietnam to avoid “leaning to one side.” For the time being, this seems tolerable to Beijing, which is important because it gives Hanoi some breathing room to maneuver.

Lastly, the current policy gives Vietnam the most leverage in dealing with both superpowers. On the one hand, if China knows that Vietnam is definitely siding with the United States, Hanoi would lose all bargaining power with Beijing and if it knows for sure that Vietnam will not join the U.S camp, Beijing will not shy away from more intense pressure on Hanoi. On the other hand, if the United States knows for sure that Vietnam will not turn pro-U.S, it will most likely not assist Vietnam but if it knows for sure that Vietnam is dependent on U.S security guarantee, Hanoi would have no leverage in dealing with Washington. Either of these scenarios is bound to happen under Nhung’s policy prescription and neither of them serves Vietnam’s security interests. The current strategy can avoid both because it adds a layer of uncertainty to* Vietnamese strategic intentions*.

Given the current deadlock in the SCS, everyone wants a change and abandoning non-alignment does just that. However, we have to be mindful that change is not always good and in abandoning non-alignment, Vietnam might needlessly provoke China and endanger its security, without receiving anything tangible in return.

_Ngo Di Lan is a PhD student at Brandeis University, where he focuses on U.S foreign policy and U.S-China relations. He is also a research associate at the Center for International Studies (SCIS) at the University of Social Sciences and Humanities in Ho Chi Minh City._

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## Aqsuperman

Still shiny up to today , we do have a high lvl of vehicle maintaince

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## Viet

images and info taken from our northern neighbor: Vietnam controlled _Cornwallis South Reef_ (Đá Núi Le). our people need to look at how the Chinese and Japanese create islands and learn from them.




*Typhoon Blows Away Illegal Island Made by Vietnam in South China Sea*
*Pub Date:* 16-02-03 09:02 *Source:* English--People's Daily Online






Satellite photos: Before (L) and after (R) the Typhoon Jamine

Photos of the recent satellite photos show that the island Vietnam has illegally built on the reef Nanhua Jiao in the South China Sea has been blown away by the Typhoon Jasmine, China Youth Net reported on February 2, 2016.






The illegal construction site of Vietnam on the southwestern corner of the reef

Typhoons are rarely seen in the region during December. It seems this Jasmine one at the end of 2015 was less than expected for Vietnam. Satellite photos taken on April 4, 2015, show that Vietnam had begun illegal construction to build a manmade island on China's Nanhua Reef.






The illegal construction site of Vietnam on the northeastern corner of the reef

Altogether a land of 0.03 square kilometers can be seen made on both the east and west side of the reef.


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## Viet

Looking great: Masterplan of the New Phu Quoc International Airport. Patrol aircraft taking off from here can quickly access the Gulf of Thailand.


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## Viet

*Vietnam’s Master Plan for the South China Sea*
The country’s plan for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance is taking shape.

By Koh Swee Lean Collin
February 04, 2016



For many years, Vietnam has been steadily accumulating new military capabilities to reinvigorate its antiquated Cold War arsenal, sourcing from mostly Russia but increasingly from other suppliers too. However, military effectiveness clearly does not depend on only kinetic capabilities; the means of detecting, tracking and guiding weapons against the intended targets constitute another essential element. Cognizant of this, besides continuing to acquire new kinetic capabilities Hanoi has undertaken nascent but nonetheless crucial steps in establishing a comprehensive intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) suite.

It is through this context that one may interpret recent revelation about the potential military significance of an Indo-Vietnamese deal to establish a satellite tracking station in Ho Chi Minh City, and an earlier report last year about Vietnam’s new unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) that will soon patrol the South China Sea (SCS).

*An ISR Master Plan in the Offing?*

Vietnam’s UAV and remote-sensing earth observation satellite programmes have often been emphasized for their utility in agriculture, disaster management and fishery management. At first glance, these initiatives correspond with general patterns observed in Southeast Asia – Indonesia (see here and here) and Singapore for example have active UAV programmes. As for earth observation satellites, Singapore launched TeLEOS-1, jointly designed by ST Electronics, Nanyang Technological University and Defence Science Organisation Laboratories in December 2015. The Philippines is also poised to launch the Diwata-1 earth observation microsatellite.






_India Spy satellite Risat-2. image resolution: 10cm._


But such capabilities clearly have military applications, since they generate data that could be utilized for various purposes. Even though civilian satellites for instance may not possess the sort of capabilities possessed by their military counterparts, they may still fulfill less demanding military peacetime and wartime requirements. And some of such ostensibly civilian-purpose satellites demonstrate performance close to military specifications. TeLEOS-1 for example has a panchromatic resolution of 1 m (at nadir), which may generate militarily useful data. Indeed, the lines between civilian and military applications are often blurred in such dual-use technologies. This is especially true in the maritime domain.

In the recent years, there are signs of Vietnam implementing a strategy of establishing what can be deemed “maritime domain awareness” in the SCS. Notably, in February 2013, the Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment (MONRE) said that it would gradually modernize existing “marine environment and hydrometeorology observation stations” as well as build new ones in key maritime zones as part of a master plan to establish a marine resources and environment observation network of 35 such stations in total by 2020. This integrated network, a crucial part of a three-phase project developed by Vietnam Administration of Seas and Islands (VASI), will help improve national management of the seas and islands under Vietnam’s sovereignty and jurisdiction. Among various purposes, this network is designed with national defense in mind, thus giving an obvious strategic context to Vietnam’s ISR drive.

Therefore, it seems very likely that Vietnam’s ISR advances are at least partly in response to developments to date in the SCS, which has seen recurring tensions. Hanoi appears to also be matching Beijing’s moves, including the latter’s vision of creating a new HY-3 “constellation” of maritime surveillance satellites in 2019 which has, according to Lin Mingsen, deputy director of the National Satellite Ocean Application Service, “an important role in reinforcing China’s marine rights protection, marine law enforcement and supervision, management of its offshore waters and marine disaster relief and reduction.” This is not to overlook China’s steady development of military UAVs such as the Wing Loong I medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) drone, said to have entered mass production in 2015, the same year its enhanced successor Wing Loong II was unveiled.

With a long 3,444-kilometers coastline (not counting islands) and vast maritime zone including claims in the disputed SCS waters, Vietnam clearly needs a comprehensive ISR strategy to bolster maritime domain awareness and targeting in times of peace and war. Unlike its acquisition of “big ticket” military kinetic capabilities, such as Su-30MK2 fighter jets and _Kilo-_class submarines, Vietnam’s discrete ISR-related projects have until now managed to evade much public attention while progressing steadily in the shadows.


*Earth Observation Satellites for Civilian Purposes?*

Space-based ISR capabilities, often couched within the ambit of civilian-sounding “earth observation satellite” development, constitute a key facet of Vietnam’s ISR quest. It started with the “Strategy for Research and Application of Space Technology of Vietnam until 2020” approved in June 2006 with a $2 billion investment. Less than year later, the Space Technology Institute (STI) was created to undertake space science and technology research, which appeared to focus on innocuously civilian applications. Vice-chairman of the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology (VAST), Nguyen Dinh Cong, said that Strategy called for the indigenous development of small earth observation satellites.

But there is clearly a military intent; back in December 2008, Chairman of the National Research Programme on Space Science and Technology Nguyen Khoa Son said that “If we have our own satellite, we can respond more promptly to natural disasters and be more active in defence and security activities.” Also, the Vietnam Space Committee, established in 2010 and tasked to advise the prime minister on implementing the space strategy, was enhanced in January 2013 to comprise representatives from various national agencies, notably the Defense Ministry.

Towards this aim, typical of many emerging satellite aspirants, Vietnam first started out with communications satellites. After some delay, it launched VINASAT-1 in April 2008, followed by VINASAT-2 in May 2012. The Vietnamese proved to be quick learners. Lockheed Martin, contractor for both VINASATs, praised Vietnamese engineers for their ability to master the skills of controlling the satellites. Indeed, Lockheed Martin handed over control of VINASAT-2 to Vietnamese authorities in July 2012, two months after satellite was launched. This was half the time taken for VINASAT-1, the control of which has relinquished to Hanoi in August 2008 – thereby demonstrating a certain level of Vietnamese technical mastery.






_Vietnam VinaSAT-1 and -2 communications satellites_


But Vietnam faces a much steeper learning curve as it progresses into the remote-sensing arena. In July 2012, Vietnam launched its first indigenous earth observation satellite, the F-1, designed by the Space Research Division (FSpace) of FPT Technology University. It measures 10 x 10 x 10 cm, weighs just 1 kg and is capable of taking low resolution (640×480) pictures. Vu Trong Thu, Head of FSpace, said that Vietnam aims to master space technology for various purposes, including SCS surveillance – thus hinting at the F-1’s ISR role. But this microsatellite failed to transmit signals back to Earth, possibly because of battery problems.

Nonetheless, this setback did not stymie Vietnam’s ambitions to wean itself of reliance on foreign-sourced remote-sensing data which has to be acquired “at a huge cost,” according to Pham Anh Tuan, Director of the Vietnam National Satellite Center (VNSC). During an interview in March 2015, Pham explained: “Currently, to produce a satellite photo, Vietnam has to order it in advance, and will only receive the image two days later. In fact, on several occasions Vietnam has not been able to receive the photos it needed on time. However, if we have our own satellites and a space center, everything can be done within 6-12 hours, including taking photos and processing data.”

So Vietnam’s second attempt, VNREDSat-1, which measures 600 x 570 x 500 mm and weighs 120 kg, was put into orbit in May 2013 and successfully transmitted the first images back to Earth two days after launch. VNREDSat-1 was designed by Astrium SAS, a European Aeronautic Defence and Space (EADS) affiliate, and its $70-million project cost bankrolled jointly by the French and Vietnamese governments. Whffen Astrium SAS handed over VNREDSat-1’s control to VAST four months later, Deputy Prime Minister Nguyen Thien Nhan called that a milestone in Vietnam’s space technology development, claiming full mastery of “small satellite technology” and the ability to independently process images. Most importantly, according to the National Space Science and Technology Research Programme chairman Nguyen Khoa Son, VNREDSat-1 helps reduce Vietnam’s reliance on foreign-sourced images.






_Vietnam VNREDSat-1 earth observing satellite_


To be sure, the military significance of VNREDSat-1 cannot be overlooked. In February 2014, Nguyen Xuan Lam, Head of MONRE’s National Remote Sensing Department, said that VNREDSat-1 will used for monitoring Vietnam’s waters and islands for the purpose of socioeconomic development as well as defense and security purposes, under the project “Monitoring Offshore Key Waters and Islands with Remote Sensing Technology.” At a conference in May the same year, Deputy Minister of MONRE Nguyen Thai Lai said that VNREDSat-1 serves as an effective tool in managing Vietnam’s environmental resources and defending national sovereignty over its land, sea, islands and airspace.

Vietnam is evidently buoyed by the success of VNREDSat-1 – and of Pico Dragon, which has roughly the same dimensions as the ill-fated F-1 and was launched shortly after, managing to transmit its first signals to Earth. By 2016, according to Pham, Vietnam plans to launch the 10 kg NanoDragon, which will be entirely developed locally, to be followed by the 50 kg MicroDragon in 2018, and then LOTUSat-2, a 500-600 kg satellite capable of capturing X-band synthetic aperture radar images with 1-16 m resolution, by 2020. Clearly, Hanoi has adopted an incremental approach, moving from small to bigger and more capable satellites.

As it stands, VNREDSat-1 carries a camera that can capture images with a 2.5 m resolution – certainly falling short of the high resolution of one meter or less afforded by military satellites. This hampers Vietnam’s ability to identify and observe with high precision the types of activities taking place in the SCS. VNREDSat-1’s limitation and the growing urgency of the SCS situation thus catalyze follow-on initiatives. In October 2014, Hanoi inked a deal with Belgium to develop VNREDSAT-1B, planned for launch in 2017. Unfortunately, however, it later backed out of the deal, following the breakdown of prolonged negotiations over its terms.

Hence the deal with India to build a satellite tracking station in Vietnam, allowing Hanoi access to data from India’s constellation of civilian and military remote-sensing satellites. Facing a remote-sensing capability gap until the more capable LOTUSat-2 comes on line, Vietnam possibly views this as a short-term stopgap measure to acquire more precise, militarily useful data generated from sophisticated Indian military satellites such as the radar imaging satellite RISAT-2 which, despite Indian officials’ insistence that it is used solely for disaster management, is capable of monitoring objects with dimensions as small as 10 cm. In the longer term, Hanoi may have assessed that collaboration with New Delhi may facilitate its ultimate goal of attaining self-sufficiency in its satellite remote-sensing capabilities.








_Vietnam LOTUSat-1 and -2 radar Earth observation satellites_



*Drones Seeing Steadier Progress*

Compared to satellites, UAVs constitute a field where Vietnam has arguably achieved more success, in no small part attributable to the relative ease of accessing dual-use technologies commonly found in such platforms. Indeed, UAVs have been a critical facet of Hanoi’s quest to develop ISR capabilities, and rightfully so since drones have become a perennial asset in modern warfare. In fact, Vietnam had begun developing UAVs as far back as 1978 when its air force’s Institute of Technology launched the TL-1 program. The first dedicated military UAV, HL-1, was based on a French model but financial constraints meant it was only partially completed.

In recent years, Hanoi has taken steps to revitalize its UAV program. Since 2010, it has cooperated with the Russian aerospace corporation Irkut to develop UAVs. Russo-Vietnamese UAV cooperation was enhanced in March 2012 with a new agreement signed between Vietnam Aerospace Association (VASA) and Irkut to develop a UAV weighing less than 100 kg with endurance of 16 hours. The deal was reportedly worth $10 million and covers technology transfers to Vietnam. But it is also evident that Hanoi seeks to diversify its sources of UAV technology. Notably, in November 2012, VASA inked a UAV deal with a Swedish firm, with its first phase covering Swedish support to initially build two Magic Eye-1 UAVs, each weighing 40 kg and capable of staying up for six hours. The subsequent two phases cover technical collaboration in associated UAV electronics, such as automatic drive mechanisms and cameras, and joint exports.

Hanoi appears to have adopted a double-pronged strategy of acquiring foreign systems while developing them through technology transfers. At least five UAV models had been tested so far, equipped with various specialized payloads. However, not all such effort yielded success. For example, also in February 2014 Vietnam’s navy reportedly discussed with Austrian firm Schiebel to purchase the Camcopter S-100 rotary-winged UAV, ostensibly for deployment from the Dutch SIGMA corvettes Hanoi was earlier said to be acquiring. But the corvette deal has since fallen through, though it is not implausible for the same UAV to be flown from other types of warships if Vietnam remains keen on it. Undeterred, Hanoi persists with this double-pronged UAV development strategy, starting with tactical systems optimized for short-range battlefield ISR.

Following the successful test flight of a prototype AV.UAV.S2 over the Central Highlands province of Lam Dong in May 2013, touted by Vietnam’s state media as paving the way for follow-on development of UAVs to perform “other necessary tasks”, in February the following year military-owned Viettel Group unveiled its indigenous Patrol VT tactical UAV, reportedly equipped with a high-definition infra-red sensor capable of taking high-quality images within 600 meters. About seven months later, Vietnam acquired the Orbiter-2 mini-UAV from Israel. It debuted on Vietnamese television in December, supporting a navy coastal defense artillery live-firing exercise featuring an Israeli-made EXTRA rocket system. Hanoi is possibly satisfied with the Orbiter-2 and therefore decided to acquire more of the system, as well as the larger Orbiter-3 that is capable of 7-hour endurance.






_Vietnam Orbiter-2 drone, as forward observation asset for VPA artillery corps._


But such tactical UAVs are typically handicapped by limited endurance and payload. Vietnam clearly seeks more capable UAVs. A senior official responsible for UAV development at Viettel’s Flight Instrument Center stated in June 2013 that the firm’s longer-term goal is to develop a UAV capable of 15-24 hours’ endurance. In this respect, Vietnam seems to have reaped the most out of its military-technical links with Belarus, following a UAV purchase and joint development pact signed in May 2013. It is very plausible that HS-6L, a high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) drone reported in December 2015, is developed with Belarussian assistance. Capable of a 4000km-range and 35-hour endurance, this UAV is poised to conduct SCS flight tests during the second quarter of 2016.






_Vietnam first high-altitude, long-endurance drone HS-6L_


Clearly, while its scope is dwarfed by China’s, Vietnam is keen to develop a holistic range of UAVs optimized for various tactical and strategic-operational missions. Within barely a decade, it has made notable progress in no small part due to its access to foreign technologies. In the near future, Hanoi would attain a degree of self-sufficiency in UAVs to complete such an important facet of its envisaged suite of ISR capabilities.


*Persistent ISR Capability Gaps*

While the pathway undertaken by Hanoi in building its ISR capabilities has so far been sound and pragmatic, clearly there is still some way to go before a comprehensive, multi-layered suite of ISR capabilities can be established for maritime domain awareness and targeting purposes in the SCS. There is a persistent capability shortfall in manned aerial ISR platforms, and particularly in airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) and maritime patrol aircraft.

An AEW&C plane is primarily optimized for aerial surveillance while possessing a secondary maritime surveillance function but such platforms are expensive. Maritime patrol aircraft are the next alternative, being optimized for maritime surveillance roles. At present, Vietnam’s stable of such planes – the Canadian DHC-6 Guardian-400 and Spanish CASA-212 – are handicapped by limited endurance, payload and range. Time-sensitive, close-in ISR can be accomplished with only larger MPAs in view of the vast maritime area of responsibility Vietnam has.





_Vietnam DHC-6 patrol plane_







_Vietnam CASA-212 patrol plane_


Ever since Hanoi reportedly expressed “a lot of interest” in acquiring the P-3C Orion from the United States back in April 2013, thus far no follow-on moves had been made even though Washington partially relaxed its arms export ban on Vietnam in September the following year. A less costly strategy could be to modify Vietnam’s new C-295 medium airlifters to perform ISR roles. But these planes are intended in the first place to replace the antiquated fleet of Soviet fixed-wing air transports, leaving little or no surplus assets for such conversions.

In any case, Vietnam’s current ISR focus constitutes a logical progression from the previous emphasis on reinvigorating its kinetic military capabilities. Having already invested so much in new fighter jets, missiles, warships and submarines, Hanoi clearly recognizes the need for more attention to ISR. Its ongoing programs are geared towards building space-based remote-sensing and unmanned aerial ISR assets that would augment “traditional” ISR capabilities found in Vietnam’s existing aerial, surface, sub-surface and shore-based platforms.

Ultimately, the eventual realization of a comprehensive ISR capability suite would allow Vietnam to maximize the potential of its arsenal for the purpose of conducting sea denial and defensive sea control missions, in effect realizing its own version of anti-access and area denial (A2/AD) strategy in the SCS. Considering the relatively small arsenal mustered by Hanoi vis-à-vis China’s, a comprehensive suite of ISR capabilities would serve as a valuable force multiplier.


_Koh Swee Lean Collin is associate research fellow at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, a constituent unit of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, Nanyang Technological University based in Singapore. He can be reached at __iscollinkoh@ntu.edu.sg_

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## Viet

Next generation of high endurance drone for Vietnam Artillery Corps: Israeli made Orbiter-3.

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## Barmaley

5 out of 6

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## Viet

I hope the Navy builds hardened bunkers for the subs. otherwise...they are very vulnerable to aerial, under water and surface attacks. one two hits, and we stand without submarine force. How about asking the Germans for assistance? they have experience, knew how to build bunkers for their submarines, U boots in WW II

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## Barmaley

bunkers for the subs is a bad idea. With modern cruise missiles there is a high chance they will stay in those bunkers forever.

The best way is to hide subs in sea and of course cover the base with modern air defence.

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## initial_d

I hope the vietnamese navy could divide the base for the kilo subs, you dont want to put all those precious egg on one basket.


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## Aqsuperman

Well I think the best way to cover our subs should be some kind of submerge base like the ex-Soviet base in Balaklava , Ukraine . The main entrance is under the water so no need for the submarines to surface which help to keep the secrecy . There are also some secondary , small and well hidden , entrances for the subs to either reach the dry dock for maintaince or to make an attack run should the main entraince got problem ..........Still i wonder what the financial cost would be ? :v

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> bunkers for the subs is a bad idea. With modern cruise missiles there is a high chance they will stay in those bunkers forever.
> 
> The best way is to hide subs in sea and of course cover the base with modern air defence.


I think we need both: hardened bunkers and aerial defence. as cam ranh bay is the sole naval base of the submarine force, the Navy needs to find ways to protect them for possible sudden enemy attacks.


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## Barmaley

Aqsuperman said:


> Balaklava , Ukraine .



Balaklava is in Crimea, Russia, not Ukraine 



Aqsuperman said:


> The main entrance is under the water so no need for the submarines to surface which help to keep the secrecy .



Not exactly, one of the main purpose was to hide the submarines from nuclear strikes and bombs back in 50-60s, then reload&repair them with nuclear weapons and was used only by two types of submarine. 

Not to mention, the Balaklava bay has a natural protection by mountains.




video excursion 







Aqsuperman said:


> Still i wonder what the financial cost would be ? :v


like billions of dollars, it's take 8 years to build this base.

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## Viet

when a trade pact is as powerful as military alliance.

even we are not US ally, as a Viet think tank points out: Joining the US led TPP is as important as buying *10 new submarines*. it is done: all 12 members of the Pacific Rim — representing around 40 percent of the world economy — signed the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade deal on Thursday in a ceremony in Auckland.

Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States and Vietnam.







US representative Michael Froman and Vietnam Minister Vu Huy Hoang

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## Viet

initial_d said:


> I hope the vietnamese navy could divide the base for the kilo subs, you dont want to put all those precious egg on one basket.


I think it is a possibility having a second submarine base that lies further south from the current cam ranh base. further away from possible chinese strikes. in any cases, our naval bases are protected by layers of SAM. one of them: medium range improved anti aircraft missile Pechora-STM.


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## Aqsuperman

Barmaley said:


> Not to mention, the Balaklava bay has a natural protection by mountains.



Well we do have some mountains near the coast, too Hope we can dig deep inside and create something 



Barmaley said:


> like billions of dollars, it's take 8 years to build this base.



Wow............that is way high :v


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## Viet

chúc mừng năm mới 
Happy New Year!

to bro sis ...

it is the 

time to meet friends






time to gather seeing family and relatives






time to decorade our houses with tradional trees






time to thank the heaven, remember the deaths






time to live up to tradition






and of course time to eat

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## Mokaman

Friends, enjoy my little creativity and wish you...

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## Viet

ha ha ha...mokaman, I think we should give credit to someone who earns it. it is Chinese new year, and Tet.


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## Viet

Center for International Maritime Security
*Little Fallout: Vietnam’s Security Policy After the 12th Congress of the Vietnam Communist Party*


February 8, 2016 
_By Zachary Abuza and Nguyen Nhat Anh_



*1. Introduction*

The recently concluded 12th Congress of the Vietnamese Communist Party (VCP) has important implications for both Vietnamese and regional security. China’s placement of the HYSY-981 oil rig in disputed waters days before the congress was another stark reminder of just how tenuous regional peace is and how quickly flareups can occur. Despite losses for the reformist and pro-western Camp of the VCP, Vietnamese defense modernization and defense diplomacy will not be adversely affected.

Our bottom line is this: Vietnam will continue with its defense modernization and it will not stop its international defense cooperation, though it is unlikely to accelerate it. While the media focused on the ascendency of the “pro-China” faction, we argue that Vietnam will continue to walk a diplomatic fine line. The party’s overwhelming concern for maintaining its monopoly of power, desire to reassert the primacy of the party, and fear of a colored revolution will lead to a focus on internal security that the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) has not had in recent years. Although Naval and Air Force modernization programs will continue, it will not be as fast as had a different leadership been selected at the Congress.


*2. Personnel Appointments*

The quinquennial leadership meeting elected a 180-member Central Committee, which in turn elected a 19-member Politburo. Much media analysis has been too superficial focusing on how the “pro” or “anti-China” factions. No one in Vietnam is solidly “pro-China.” But there are stark differences on strategies to cope with China that are borne out in factional politics. And to be sure, conservatives do tend to believe – though they are repeatedly proven otherwise – that their historical and ideological relationship with China can help to defuse crises.






_Politburo members. From left to right: Dinh The Quynh, Tran Dai Quang, Nguyen Phu Trong,Nguyen Xuan Phuc, and Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan._


Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, the architect of Vietnam’s entry into the Transpacific Partnership (TPP) and closer ties with the West, and in particular the United States, had been the front-runner to become the VCP’s General Secretary. Dung had the most popular support, in large part due to his economic reform programs, but also because he was the only leader to stand up to China in the 2014 crisis when China placed the HYSY-981 oil rig on Vietnam’s continental shelf. His outspoken criticism of China led Dung to deepen the relationship with the United States, and he saw the TPP as a strategic tool to keep the United States engaged in the region, not a mere trade agreement.

Yet Dung was outmaneuvered by a conservative faction at the Congress. When they could not get their own man for the job, the party’s top ideologue Dinh The Huynh, they were able to pull together an “anyone but Dung” coalition, and presented incumbent Nguyen Phu Trong as the compromise candidate. Although Dung fought back from the floor of the Congress, his strategic vision for the country, which included heightened economic reform, faster privatization of state owned enterprises, and closer economic ties with the West, proved unsettling to many in the leadership that prefer a cautious economic approach and a more balanced foreign policy.

Nguyen Phu Trong may be ideologically closer to China, but there is no doubt that he evolved significantly since 2012, endorsing the TPP and making a historically unprecedented trip to the United States in July 2015, where he met with President Obama in the Oval Office. But he has also tried to diffuse tensions with China, focusing on a shared history and socialist solidarity. Had Dung won, one could have expected a more confrontational foreign policy towards China, deepened ties and greater security cooperation with the United States and other regional partners. But what he accomplished is unlikely to be reversed by the new leadership which has already pledged to continue economic reforms.

The composition of the Politburo really represents the two inter-connected goals of the VCP: To maintain its monopoly of power while growing the economy. While there are an unprecedented number of economic technocrats on the Politburo, political control is clearly a priority. To that end, the Politburo includes four people with Ministry of Public Security/police backgrounds.

Even more troubling, the incoming Minister of National Defense General Ngo Xuan Lich, is a career political commissar who has never had command or operational experience. A political commissar is important when it comes to fighting “people’s war,” but the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) has undergone a fundamental transformation in the past decade and now fields arguably the most offensively capable military in Southeast Asia. Vietnam’s navy is now one of the most modern and capable in the region.






_Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich, incoming Minister of National Defense_


And of great concern is that Gen Do Ba Ty, the Deputy Minister of Defense and VPA’s Chief-of-Staff, who has overseen much of that modernization, got passed over by a political commissar. Ty was seen as being too close to Prime Minister Dung.

In addition, one of the three members of the VCP’s Secretariat, the office responsible for running the day to day affairs of the VCP, is also a former VPA political commissar. The other two Secretariat members both have their origins in the Ministry of Public Security.

One cannot look at the composition of the leadership and not come to the conclusion that maintaining the political loyalty of the military and police remains a paramount concern. The leadership was alarmed when in 2014, a petition by former officers called for a re-writing of the constitution to make the VPA legally bound to defend the country, not the party. Such calls have been amplified in Vietnam’s surprisingly open social media. Tensions with China in 2014-15 led to greater public discussion as to why the VPA’s primary responsibility was to defend the regime, not the country, in the face of heightened Chinese aggression.

But it also reflects the leadership’s ongoing fear of “colored revolutions.” The heavy commissar representation suggests that the leadership remains prepared to use the VPA for internal security operations should the need ever arise.

Nonetheless, even though there is a heavy commissar representation in the Politburo and the Secretariat, the majority of military officers, including Do Ba Ty, recently elected to the 12th Central Committee come from either the General Staff or from one of Vietnam’s eight military districts.

The VPA holds 22 seats on the Central Committee (12.2 percent), making it the third largest sectoral block, following provincial representation (28.3 percent) and central government representation (20 percent).

The VPA’s 22 member representation includes five political commissars. That is the same number as in the 11th Congress, though the difference is that this also includes the incoming Minister of National Defense. The other four include two vice chiefs of the Political Directorate and the political commissars of Military Districts 5 and 9.

Other VPA members of the Central Committee include the commanders of Military Districts 1, 2, 3, 4 and 7, as well as the commanders of the People’s Navy, People’s Air Force and the Border Guards.

There are four members from the General Staff. Another three hold the rank of Deputy Minister: one comes from the military intelligence, one from the Border Guards and one from Military District 7.

The final two members are the deputy head of the National Defense University and the General Director of Viettel, the country’s military-owned and largest telecommunications firm, which the military has staunchly resisted divesting; ostensibly because it produces communication equipment for the military and the intelligence’s gathering functions, but also because it is greatly profitable.

It is not all bad. As mentioned above, the Politburo includes a number of technocrats who will continue to steer Vietnam towards TPP compliance, reform and privatization of the state owned sector.

The 12th Central Committee also includes three highly skilled and US educated diplomats, who have been architects of closer ties with the US, Japan and other countries in the region. Minister of Foreign Affairs Pham Binh Minh has been outspokenly critical of China, and Beijing is most certainly unhappy to see him finally elevated to the top decision making body. He favors a closer relationship with the West and away from China, and one can reasonably expect that Vietnam’s current trend of inching toward the West will not be stopped. Two of his deputies are also on the Central Committee, and both are firm proponents of deeper integration with the West and a more proactive role for the United States in regional security.

It is also important to note that Sr. Lt. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh remains on the Central Committee and will stay on as Deputy Minister of National Defense. Vinh, who has an intelligence back ground, is arguably the country’s most important strategist and has been the leading driver of military relations with the United States, Japan, India, Israel and other countries in the region.

All military and state appointments will be ratified in May when the National Assembly convenes. And even within the top echelons of the VCP, personnel appointments were still being made a week after the Congress concluded.


*3. Policy Implications*

The 12th Congress will not lead to substantial changes in Vietnamese foreign policy or defense relations.

In his speech to the 12th Congress, Gen Lich stated that he would remain committed to defense modernization, territorial defense and international military cooperation. But these were giveaways, and he really provided no detail of the country’s evolving security strategy. There is ample concern whether the appointment of a career commissar will slow the military’s modernization efforts.

The VPA will draft a new White Paper later this year and we do not know what shape it will take with the new leadership. But we see no meaningful shift in its “Three No’s Policy”, as iterated in the last White Paper:


No foreign alliances,
No foreign military bases, and
No ganging up with one country against a third.
But Vietnam was already creatively working around some of them by 2015.

The 2011 MOU signed with the US Department of Defense has been gradually implemented as trust has been built. Although the United States remains only able to have one port visit a year, that does not include CARAT and other naval exercises or HADR operations.

And while Hanoi will never allow a foreign military base in its deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay, in mid-2015, it announced that it would be an open port that any country could use for resupply and repairs. Japan has already entered into negotiations and the United States, too, has expressed interest. In fact, the United States has already sent several ships, albeit auxiliary vessels, into Cam Ranh Bay for repair and resupply.

Vietnam and the US have increased military cooperation. In May 2015, Vietnam participated in the US Pacific Command (PACOM) Amphibious Leaders Symposium (PALS) together with other Asia-Pacific countries, though not China. PALS seeks to develop amphibious operations, capability development,interoperability, and builds on areas of previous cooperation such as HADR missions and peace keeping operations.

Vietnam and the US are proceeding with their annual defense Bilateral Defense Dialogue/Mid-Term Review in February 2016. No changes are expected due to the 12th Congress. And Vietnam was a key beneficiary of US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter’s Southeast Asia Maritime Security Initiative, announced in mid 2015. Under this agreement, Vietnam is to receive $122 million in assistance in order to help “bolster its maritime Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) and command and control within Vietnam’s maritime agencies.”

And already the defense relationship seems like it will remain on a very solid footing. On 30 January, the USS Curtis Wilbur entered within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island in the Paracel Archipelago, which China forcibly seized from Vietnam in 1977. Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately stated that Vietnam supported the right to innocent passage, as long as they follow international rules. This is contrary to the last US FONOP on 26 October 2015 in the Spratly Islands, when Vietnam remained officially silent, though privately supporting the FONOP.

In sum, despite changes in the leadership, proponents of deeper ties with the Unites States, in particular Sr. Lt Gen Vinh and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh are in very strong positions. The trend of improved ties and greater bilateral defense cooperation with the United States is likely to continue, and it certainly will not be reversed or stopped abruptly. Even Trong has changed since taking power in 2012, as seen from his trip to the US in 2015 and the approval of TPP from the Politburo.

Vietnam is determined to continue senior level engagement, including participating at the US-ASEAN summit at Sunnylands 15-16 February 2015, as well as potentially hosting President Obama in May 2016.

Vietnam will continue to develop its “omni-directional” foreign policy. Vietnam has developed very close security ties with India, most recently announcing that it will establish a ground station for Indian satellites, giving Hanoi access to geo-spacial intelligence over the South China Sea. India has been training Vietnamese crews for its six new Kilo-class submarines. India has emerged as a key exporter of weaponry to Vietnam, and is increasingly maintaining a greater naval presence in the South China Sea. Hanoi is dispatching a naval vessel to India’s fleet review, the longest deployment in Vietnamese naval history.

Vietnam has also work toward interoperability with other ASEAN members, many of whom use US-made weapons. Last year, Vietnam paid port visits to the Philippines and Indonesia. It is likely to continue to participate in regional multilateral exercises.

The 12th Congress did re-emphasize relations with Vietnam’s two neighbors, Laos and Cambodia, though for different reasons. Laos is the current chairman of ASEAN, and as such it is already being courted by all sides involved in the South China Sea. The Vietnamese leadership was clearly bolstered by the results of the 10th Congress of the Lao People’s Revolutionary Party, in January 2016, which saw the pro-Hanoi Bounnhang Vorachit elected as the new secretary-general. Vorachit has rained concern about Chinese domination of Laos, and has looked to reverse the swing towards China since Beijing bailed out the Lao kip in the 1997-98 financial crisis.

Already, US Secretary of State has won a pledge from the new Lao leadership to use its position to counter Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea. Vietnam, too, will court Laos, not least by increased military delegations.

Cambodia remains a more difficult case for Hanoi. The Cambodian foreign minister told Secretary Kerry that Cambodia’s position on the South China Sea is unchanged. Hanoi must expect Phnom Penh to continue to obstruct ASEAN unity over the South China Sea. However, with the simmering unrest along the border in summer 2015, Vietnam cannot afford to pay no attention to Cambodia. And as the 2018 general election nears, it is highly likely that bilateral tensions will increase, as all sides in Cambodian politics engage in populist politics, xenophobic nationalism, and scapegoating of the country’s Vietnamese community.

This may explain that of the 22 military officers on the Central Committee, two come from the Border Guards, as well as the commander of the Military District 7 and the military Commissar of Military District 9, both of which abut Cambodia. Two other senior officers on the general Staff have long experience in these two military districts, as well. On the last Central Committee, only two military personnel had experience along the Cambodian border.

There is one area where the appointment of Trong over Dung may see a discernible difference in policy: In mid-2014, Vietnam seemed on the verge of joining the Philippine suit at the International Court of Arbitration (ICA). Top leaders, including the Prime Minister, suggested that it was a less a matter of if, but when. Yet the high level visit of the Chinese State Counselor Yang Jiechi who told Hanoi to “stop hyping up” the dispute, and implicit threats led Hanoi to drop their filing.

In December 2014, Hanoi did file a position paper with the ICA asking that they take Vietnam’s interests into consideration in their ruling. When in October 2015, the ICA rejected China’s contention that the court had no standing and would proceed with the merits of the case, the leadership in Hanoi must have been kicking themselves. Under the leadership of Nguyen Tan Dung, one could have countenanced Vietnam filing a similar suit. But that seems unlikely under the continued leadership of Nguyen Phu Trong, who is unlikely to openly provoke China. And that is truly a setback because it is the legal weakness of Beijing’s claims that gives Hanoi the greatest leverage.

Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea will remain Hanoi’s greatest strategic conundrum. That does not change with the Congress or the election of people Beijing preferred to see in office. Vietnam’s’s border forces reported increased Chinese aggression, including 57 intrusions by boats conducting espionage in 2015 alone.






_A Chinese Coast Guard vessel that obstructed the rescue work of Vietnamese authorities on Vietnamese waters. Photo credit: Tuoi Tre_


The irony is that the more conservative members of the leadership always believe that they can use their historical and ideological ties to China to diffuse situations. And yet, they have never been able to get China to reverse course or abandon its aggressive strategies, whether it be putting oil concessions on Vietnam’s continental shelf for tender, placing oil rigs in Vietnamese claimed waters or the construction of artificial islands on low tide elevations. The reality is the leadership selection could actually embolden China to step up its assertive action, knowing too well that the current leadership is less willing to engage the United States and provoke an open confrontation with Beijing.







But the real policy implication of the 12th Congress is this: Vietnamese defense modernization is contingent on sustained economic growth. While the leadership has tried to assuage the international community that economic reforms will continue, most believe that such reforms would be accelerated had Dung won. Vietnam’s military spending increased by 270 percent between 2004 and 2013. Defense spacing accounted for 2.3 percent of GDP in 2013, third in the region behind Myanmar and Singapore. Defense expenditures averaged 2.27 percent between 2004-13. But in terms of per capita military spending Vietnam ranks fourth in the region – a mere $37.6 – placing it behind Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand. Vietnamese security is highly contingent on maintaining the highest rates of economic growth in Southeast Asia, which it was able to do in 2013-15, but requires skilled leadership and good policies.

But not all signs are good. The low price of oil, now only contributes 7 percent of the budget, adding to a widening deficit, while the trade deficit and public debt are both increasing. Although the economic reform program is unlikely to be reversed, the cautious leadership of Trong will be unable to seize a window of opportunity availed by Thailand’s continued political stasis and resulting economic meltdown, Indonesia’s economic nationalism and endemic corruption, and Malaysia’s self-inflicted wounds owing to Prime Minister Najib Razak’s scandal plagued administration.


*4. Procurement*

So what does all this mean for the VPA’s defense procurement program? Despite the signs that the leadership is looking to maintain party control over the security sectors, this by no means means that there is going to be any reversal of its military modernization program. Vietnam remains committed to field the most modern and lethal military in Southeast Asia. In terms of procurement, Vietnam has done a lot to diversify its weapon sources, and this trend is unlikely to be reversed with the new leadership.

In the past decade, the lion’s share of modernization funds has gone to building up power projection capabilities. The VPA has gotten slightly smaller, and its procurements have been more modest, particularly in small arms. The VPA is looking for contenders to replace its 1960s T-54/55, or to at least upgrade them to a more capable version.

Its defense partnership with Israel is still likely to deepen, far more than people are probably aware of. Vietnam has been producing Israeli small arms under license, and is now producing an Israeli variant drone. Vietnam has also acquired Israeli Spyder AA missile and Accular guided artillery missile, and there are reasons to believe that Vietnam also wants to self-produce these weapon systems.

Other weapon systems from non-traditional suppliers include CAESAR self-propelled artillery system from France and patrol boats given by Japan.

Apart from the training of submariners in Indian bases, India has recently become a more important arms supplier to Vietnam. In 2014, Vietnam began negotiating the purchase of BrahMos anti-ship missile, co-developed by Russia and India. Vietnam has already been deemed one of the countries friendly enough to India and Russia to possess this weapon; and in mid 2015 reports surfaced that Russia had approved the sale. Also in 2014, India announced that it would extend a $100 million credit line to Vietnam for the purchase of four patrol boats.

Vietnam will take delivery of two more Gepard-class frigates from Russia in 2017-2018, and is negotiating two more. Vietnam has built six Molniya-class corvettes recently for the Navy and expects to build four more under license.






_Gepard class frigate_


Outgoing Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung is still pushing forward with his privatization agenda in his final four months in office. On 3 February, the government announced that it had sold a 70 percent share of Song Cam shipyard to Dutch shipbuilder Damen. Song Cam is the most modern and profitable of the eight subsidiaries of the Shipbuilding Industry Corporation. It produces most of Vietnam’s coast guard vessels and is expected to ramp up production.

As of now, five out of six Russian-built Kilo class submarines ordered by Vietnam have arrived at the Cam Ranh naval base. The first began patrols in the South China Sea in December 2015. Not only has Vietnam acquired these state-of-the-art vessels for its deterrence, but it has also equipped them with offensive capability by being the first country in South East Asia to purchase submarine-launched land cruise missile, the Klub-S. This is the export version of the cruise missile Russia used to bombard ISIS force from the Caspian Sea, launched from Gepard class frigates, which Vietnam possesses. Russia has offered to sell the Klub for Vietnam to equip its Gepard and Molniya vessels, but no official news has been confirmed. Nevertheless, fielding silent submarines with anti-shore cruise missile will surely alter China’s calculation.






_Military personnel stand on Russian-made Kilo-class submarines during a celebration of Vietnam’s Navy at Cam Ranh military port May 2, 2015. Photo taken May 2, 2015. Reuters Vietnam._


Vietnam is in the market to purchase new jet fighter to replace its aging fleet of 144 Mig-21s and 38 SU-22s. While there was plenty of speculation that with the lifting of the US embargo, that Vietnam was in the market for US jets, that was unlikely then, and even more so following the 12th Congress.

Vietnam will most likely remain within the Russian orbit of weaponry. It recently purchased another squadron of Russian Sukhoi Su-30s, and there are hints that Hanoi may consider the Eurofighter Typhoon or Gripen JAS-39E jet fighter in a bid to diversify is sources of advanced weapons.

While many in the VPA have been pushing for the purchase of American P8s to bolster its limited maritime surveillance capabilities, the potential backlash from China could result in the purchase of a European variant or even the new Kawasaki P-1 from Japan, as it begins to enter into the global arms global. In 2014, Vietnam purchased maritime surveillance planes from Canada and several Casa C-295 military cargo planes from EADS.

Vietnam has largely pushed for the lifting of the US arms embargo as a matter of principle. While they may purchase niche items that are not available from their traditional suppliers, in particular long range maritime surveillance craft, it is unlikely that there will be a broader based shift to US arms; they are simply too expensive.

Apart from acquiring weapons from abroad, Vietnam has had a strong emphasis on self-producing many of its need. As a result of this focus, Vietnam has been more successful than most countries in acquiring licensing for indigenous manufacture, and has shown that it is ready to move to another non-traditional supplier to achieve this. Indeed, the reason that Vietnam chose Israeli Military Industry Galil ACE family over the traditional Russian Kalashnikov weapons is because it was able to obtain production license for this family. Vietnam has also been able to self-manufacture other type of infantry weapons, such as RPG or automatic grenade launchers.

More special for the Vietnamese Military Industry in 2015, it has succeeded in manufacturing its indigenous version of the Russian Kh-35E Uran anti-ship missile, called KCT-15. The Kh-35 Uran is the mainstay of the Vietnamese Navy, being equipped on all Gepard and Molniya frigates. The KCT-15 can be configured to be carried by fighter jets or naval helicopters that Vietnam currently fields. An anti-ground capable Kh-35 version has also been proposed; if this materializes, it would be a much cheaper option to the expensive Klub-S cruise missile.






_An indigenously produced Kh-35E Uran (KCT-15) anti-ship missile, the mainstay of the Vietnamese navy._


Vietnam has also progressed silently but surely in the field of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR), especially in satellite and UAV surveillance. In addition to the satellite agreement with India, Vietnam has developed and operated several satellites with US Lockheed Martin and French SAS Atrium, and aims to be able to produce its own indigenous satellite in the next few years. Vietnam is also leasing a Heron UAV from Israel. Viettel Corporation, the VPA-owned telecommunication company, has produced small UAVs itself and is aiming to produce a high altitude long endurance drone with Belorussian cooperation. The UAV HS-6L, unveiled in December 2015, has an endurance of 35 hours and a range of 4,000km and will greatly increase Vietnam ISR capability over the South China Sea.

Viettel produces warning radars to support anti-air missile batteries and recently developed a new C4ISR system for the VPA.






_Early warning radar developed by Viettel_


The first time inclusion of Viettel’s Director on the Central Committee may signify both a focus on indigenous production as well as cybersecurity and monitoring.

In general, Vietnam will continue to diversify its weapon sources, and try to improve its self-production capability. Very quietly, Vietnam has emerged as the leading producer of advanced arms in Southeast Asia.


_Zachary Abuza, PhD, is Professor at the National War College where he specializes in Southeast Asian security issues. Follow him on Twitter @ZachAbuza. _

_Nguyen Nhat Anh is a student of International Political Economy at the University of Texas at Dallas and a political affair intern at UN ESCAP in Bangkok._

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> ha ha ha...mokaman, I think we should give credit to someone who earns it. it is Chinese new year, and Tet.



Chuc mung nam moi !!!!! Happy New Year of the fire monkey to everybody !!!!


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## Aqsuperman

Tug-of-war in Naval Garrison

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Chuc mung nam moi !!!!! Happy New Year of the fire monkey to everybody !!!!


Bro, I only know dragon spits fire. But monkey too?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Bro, I only know dragon spits fire. But monkey too?



I guess this year yes since this is a fire monkey year.

*Lunar New Year turbulence as 'fire monkey' swings into action*

By Dennis Chong February 8, 2016

As the Lunar New Year of the Monkey swings into action Monday, fortune tellers foresee 12 months of political and financial turbulence at the hands of the mischievous, unpredictable creature.

Hong Kong's respected feng shui masters expect an incendiary mix as the monkey combines with the fire element, but also say the year ahead will be a boom time for clever innovation and women will be in the ascendant.

The monkey is seen as belonging to the hard metal element, while fire represents the sun, says Hong Kong-based celebrity feng shui master Alion Yeo.

"When the two things combine, it creates an extremely high temperature. We have to be prepared for a lot of disputes, sickness," he told AFP.

"One can even associate fire and metal with missiles, bullets or rockets," he said.

Feng shui --- literally meaning "wind-water" -- is influential in many parts of Asia, where people adjust their lives and renovate offices and homes to maximise their luck and wealth according to its tenets.

It is based on ancient philosophy and the belief that all events are dictated by the varying balances in the five elements that make up the universe: metal, wood, water, fire and earth.

Feng shui masters in Hong Kong also combine astrology into their art.

Hong Kong-based soothsayer Thierry Chow warned of shocking events at the hands of the "fire monkey".

"Fire is dominant in the five elements. When fire is atop monkeys they will be swinging around, they will be difficult to predict. A lot of things will be unexpected," said Chow.

The last fire monkey year happened in 1956, when Britain and France invaded Egypt during the Suez Canal crisis, a pivotal event that historians believe marked the demise of British imperial power.

But while the monkey may bring instability, it could also herald major innovation, said Chow, as technology falls into the "fire" category.

"There could be major breakthroughs in solar-powered energy, fire-related technologies, or the Internet," she told AFP.

The lunar calendar is based on the cycles of the moon and Chinese folklore ascribes 12 animals in rotation. The monkey is in the ninth position.

- Financial rollercoaster -

In its annual tongue-in-cheek "feng shui index", CLSA, one of Asia's leading brokerages, predicted a "volatile ride" for financial markets.

"There are going to be a lot of ups and downs. The monkey is a creature who is tricky and cunning," Cherry Ma of the firm's feng shui team said.

"There will be fluctuations but it also means opportunities for fast-movers," she said.

The outgoing Year of the Sheep saw turbulence in global markets and a rout in China stocks with fears of an economic slowdown on the mainland.

Yeo predicts February and August will be the roughest times for investors, as the months clash with the presiding cosmic deity of the year, known as the "Tai Sui".

"There will be a transfer of wealth (in February and August)... money will be lost," Yeo said.

- Trump to meet match -

The Year of the Monkey may look foreboding, but feng shui masters say women may benefit, as they fall within the fire category.

This is particularly true for Taiwan's president-elect Tsai Ing-wen, born in a fire monkey year in 1956, according to Chow.

Tsai won a landslide victory in January, unseating the ruling Kuomintang to become the island's first female president. She will take the reins in May.

"Women are compatible with the fire element. They will be empowered. They can go to the front of the stage or get promotions," says Chow.

The year promises a "big change" and "house moving" for Tsai, she adds.

It could also spell trouble for United States presidential hopeful Donald Trump -- heavily criticised for his sexist views -- as he campaigns for the Republican nomination. Hillary Clinton is campaigning for the Democrat nomination.

"The divination for the US is that the sun will be eaten by the moon... the sun represents men and the moon represents the women," said Yeo.

"The sun eaten by the moon means the woman will dominate and win."

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## Viet

*Remember the Battle of Paracels of 1974*

Unthinkable some years ago: a memorial site will be built on Ly Son island (South China Sea) to honor the soldiers who died protecting the Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago. though it is not particularily mentioning, everyone can think the monument is dedicated to ROV Republic of Vietnam soldiers, who fought and died during the Battle of Paracel islands 42 years ago.

The statue is inspired by the image of a women waiting on the shore for their husbands and sons to return. however in some cases...her loved ones never return.








_
_
We remember of the days of 19 and 20 of January of 1974, when a naval task force of the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) composing of 4 warships met the of chinese in the waters of Paracel Islands.


_




_


South Vietnamese warships in the battle

_Trần Bình Trọng (HQ-5)_







_Nhật Tảo (HQ-10)_







_Lý Thường Kiệt (HQ-16)_






_Trần Khánh Dư (HQ-4)_







the task force was supported by ROV Marines.











_

_


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## Viet

maybe a repost of a repost: standard weaponry of Kilo Submarines, 4,000 tons of displacement, 20 nm per hour cruising speed, can dive 300 m, 52-member crew aboard, endurance 45 days, max range 13,900 km.









any Kilo sub has 6 x 533mm tubes, can launch max 18 torpedos, variants TEST 71/76, VA-111 Shkval, range max 22 km.



















Klub-S anti ship missile, speed Mach 2.9, range 200km.







anti sub missile 91RE1, range max 50 km.








Klub 3M-14E cruise missile against land target, speed Mach 0.8, range 300 km

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## vtnsx

Mokaman said:


> Friends, enjoy my little creativity and wish you...
> View attachment 292402



what's up homeboy? where you in canada? we should go drinking.


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## Aepsilons

Aqsuperman said:


> Tug-of-war in Naval Garrison



The guy in the center with naval blue camo pants. Are my eyes deceiving me or is is he wearing sandals? O - o ''

Is that a new version of dép lốp ?


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## dichoi

Mokaman said:


> Friends, enjoy my little creativity and wish you...
> View attachment 292402



A *lunar calendar* is a calendar that is based on cycles of the lunar phases. This can be contrasted with the Gregorian calendar, which is a solar calendarbased on the revolution of the Earth around the sun. Because there are slightly more than twelve lunations (synodic months) in a solar year, the period of 12 lunar months (354.37 days) is sometimes referred to as a *lunar year*.

A common purely lunar calendar is the Islamic (or Hijri Qamari) calendar. A feature of the Islamic calendar is that a year is always 12 months, so the months are not linked with the seasons and drift each solar year by 11 to 12 days. It comes back to the position it had in relation to the solar year approximately every 33 Islamic years. It is used mainly for religious purposes, but in Saudi Arabia it is the official calendar. Other lunar calendars often include extra months added occasionally to synchronize it with the solar calendar.

The oldest known lunar calendar was found in Scotland at Warren Field and dates back to around 8,000 BC.[1] Alexander Marshack, in a controversial reading,[2] believed that marks on a bone baton (c. 25,000 BCE) represented a lunar calendar. Similarly, Michael Rappenglueck believes that marks on a 17,000-year-old cave painting in Lascaux represent a lunar calendar.[3]

Most calendars referred to as "lunar" calendars are in fact lunisolar calendars. That is, months reflect the lunar cycle, but then intercalary months (e.g. "second Adar" in theHebrew calendar) are added to bring the calendar year into synchronisation with the solar year. Some examples are the Chinese, Hindu, and Thai calendars. Some other calendar systems used in antiquity were also lunisolar.

All these calendars have a variable number of months in a year. The reason for this is that a solar year is not equal in length to an exact number of lunations, so without the addition of intercalary months the seasons would drift each year. To synchronise the year, a thirteen-month year is needed every two or three years.

Some lunar calendars are calibrated by annual natural events which are affected by lunar cycles as well as the solar cycle. An example of this is the lunar calendar of the Banks Islands, which includes three months in which the edible palolo worm mass on the beaches. These events occur at the last quarter of the lunar month, as the reproductive cycle of the palolos is synchronised with the moon.[4]

Even though the Gregorian calendar is in common and legal use, lunar and lunisolar calendars serve to determine traditional holidays in many parts of the world, including India,Pakistan, China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam and Nepal. Such holidays include Ramadan, Diwali, Chinese New Year, Loy Krathong, Tết(Vietnamese New Year), Mid-Autumn Festival/Chuseok and Nepal Sambat and the Mongolian New Year (Tsagaan sar).

Lunar calendar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Mokaman

vtnsx said:


> what's up homeboy? where you in canada? we should go drinking.


Canada is a huge country, my friend! I'm pretty sure we are far apart, I'm living in Montreal. By the way, I'm a big beer drinker and love to NHAU, guess that the good/bad old habit I kept from the army.. .....lol



dichoi said:


> A *lunar calendar* is a calendar that is based on cycles of the lunar phases. This can be contrasted with the Gregorian calendar, which is a solar calendarbased on the revolution of the Earth around the sun. Because there are slightly more than twelve lunations (synodic months) in a solar year, the period of 12 lunar months (354.37 days) is sometimes referred to as a *lunar year*.
> 
> A common purely lunar calendar is the Islamic (or Hijri Qamari) calendar. A feature of the Islamic calendar is that a year is always 12 months, so the months are not linked with the seasons and drift each solar year by 11 to 12 days. It comes back to the position it had in relation to the solar year approximately every 33 Islamic years. It is used mainly for religious purposes, but in Saudi Arabia it is the official calendar. Other lunar calendars often include extra months added occasionally to synchronize it with the solar calendar.
> 
> The oldest known lunar calendar was found in Scotland at Warren Field and dates back to around 8,000 BC.[1] Alexander Marshack, in a controversial reading,[2] believed that marks on a bone baton (c. 25,000 BCE) represented a lunar calendar. Similarly, Michael Rappenglueck believes that marks on a 17,000-year-old cave painting in Lascaux represent a lunar calendar.[3]
> 
> Most calendars referred to as "lunar" calendars are in fact lunisolar calendars. That is, months reflect the lunar cycle, but then intercalary months (e.g. "second Adar" in theHebrew calendar) are added to bring the calendar year into synchronisation with the solar year. Some examples are the Chinese, Hindu, and Thai calendars. Some other calendar systems used in antiquity were also lunisolar.
> 
> All these calendars have a variable number of months in a year. The reason for this is that a solar year is not equal in length to an exact number of lunations, so without the addition of intercalary months the seasons would drift each year. To synchronise the year, a thirteen-month year is needed every two or three years.
> 
> Some lunar calendars are calibrated by annual natural events which are affected by lunar cycles as well as the solar cycle. An example of this is the lunar calendar of the Banks Islands, which includes three months in which the edible palolo worm mass on the beaches. These events occur at the last quarter of the lunar month, as the reproductive cycle of the palolos is synchronised with the moon.[4]
> 
> Even though the Gregorian calendar is in common and legal use, lunar and lunisolar calendars serve to determine traditional holidays in many parts of the world, including India,Pakistan, China, Korea, Japan, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam and Nepal. Such holidays include Ramadan, Diwali, Chinese New Year, Loy Krathong, Tết(Vietnamese New Year), Mid-Autumn Festival/Chuseok and Nepal Sambat and the Mongolian New Year (Tsagaan sar).
> 
> Lunar calendar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Thank for the precision, I just don't think the term CHINESE new year is use in the right way. Yes the Chinese did start to use the lunar calendar but they didn't created the moon. Just like the Gregorian or Christian calendar we using today, are we going to say Christian New Year? Imagine greeting someone by saying Happy Christian new year, you could get you kill in some parts of the world..


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## Aqsuperman

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The guy in the center with naval blue camo pants. Are my eyes deceiving me or is is he wearing sandals? O - o ''
> 
> Is that a new version of dép lốp ?



Yep he is :v He is a acting leader that check the formatiom stance ..........but usually involve screaming when the competition began . And we call it Dép Lào , aka Laotian Sandal 

Jungle camo Su-30 with 2 R-27 and 2 R-73

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## Aepsilons

Aqsuperman said:


> Yep he is :v He is a acting leader that check the formatiom stance ..........but usually involve screaming when the competition began . And we call it Dép Lào , aka Laotian Sandal
> 
> Jungle camo Su-30 with 2 R-27 and 2 R-73



Okay, appreciate the specifics!


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## Viet

a dream of 12 grader student: Vietnam 1st carrier strike group with 1 aircraft carrier and accompanied 15 warships.


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## Soryu

Viet said:


> images and info taken from our northern neighbor: Vietnam controlled _Cornwallis South Reef_ (Đá Núi Le). our people need to look at how the Chinese and Japanese create islands and learn from them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Typhoon Blows Away Illegal Island Made by Vietnam in South China Sea*
> *Pub Date:* 16-02-03 09:02 *Source:* English--People's Daily Online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satellite photos: Before (L) and after (R) the Typhoon Jamine
> 
> Photos of the recent satellite photos show that the island Vietnam has illegally built on the reef Nanhua Jiao in the South China Sea has been blown away by the Typhoon Jasmine, China Youth Net reported on February 2, 2016.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The illegal construction site of Vietnam on the southwestern corner of the reef
> 
> Typhoons are rarely seen in the region during December. It seems this Jasmine one at the end of 2015 was less than expected for Vietnam. Satellite photos taken on April 4, 2015, show that Vietnam had begun illegal construction to build a manmade island on China's Nanhua Reef.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The illegal construction site of Vietnam on the northeastern corner of the reef
> 
> Altogether a land of 0.03 square kilometers can be seen made on both the east and west side of the reef.



Some members from TTVNOL said that we're just sucking those sand up, bring it to build other reef, not relates to the typhoon ...

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## vtnsx

Soryu said:


> Some members from TTVNOL said that we're just sucking those sand up, bring it to build other reef, not relates to the typhoon ...



yeah, it would take a lot more than just typhoons to remove those sand off the islands just like that.


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> a dream of 12 grader student: Vietnam 1st carrier strike group with 1 aircraft carrier and accompanied 15 warships.



Wow... He's good and having a dream is nice, specially if its achievable since Vietnam spends over 1 billion USD on modernization, right? That is enough for a brand new aircraft carrier.



vtnsx said:


> yeah, it would take a lot more than just typhoons to remove those sand off the islands just like that.



Its cheaper and faster to relocate it than haul it all the way from the mainland...


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## Aqsuperman

Giving VN economical situaition , having an aircraft carrier will suck all the resource from anything :v 

Once a legandary aircraft in VN war .......now most of it kind are going to be retired


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## Viet

History


*Tet offensive shakes U.S. confidence over Vietnam, Jan. 30, 1968 *
By Andrew Glass


January 30, 2016


On this day in 1968, communist forces launched their largest offensive of the Vietnam War against South Vietnamese and U.S. troops. An estimated 80,000 troops of the North Vietnamese Army and National Liberation Front attacked cities and military establishments throughout South Vietnam during the traditional Tet holiday.









In coordinated attacks all across South Vietnam, dozens of cities, towns, and military bases were attacked. Commandos blasted through the wall surrounding the American Embassy in Saigon and attempted to seize the building. On their television screens, Americans were stunned to see fighting taking place on the embassy grounds.










Battles continued to rage throughout the country for weeks. The fight to reclaim the city of Hue from communist troops was particularly destructive. American and South Vietnamese forces lost over 3,000 men. Estimates of communist losses ran as high as 40,000. Most of the attacks were repulsed, with the communist forces suffering heavy losses.







_a US artillery position with a 105 mm howitzer at the battle of Khe Sanh_







_U.S. Marines in the battle of Hue_







_U.S. Marines fight along side a M67A2 , during the Tet Offensive_






_Image Credit: NATIONAL ARCHIVES February 6, 1968. A Navy corpsman treats a member of the 2d Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment during the battle for Hue. The Marines suffered nearly 1,000 casualties (killed and wounded) in the battle._







_US President Lyndon B. Johnson at Cam Ranh Bay (Vietnam), October 1966_



While the offensive was not a military success, its size and intensity shook the confidence of many Americans who had been led to believe by President Lyndon B. Johnson that the war would shortly be coming to a successful close. Support for the war began steadily to erode as public opinion turned against LBJ.







_Vietcong soldiers during the offensive_


In the aftermath of the offensive, Walter Cronkite, the anchor of the “CBS Evening News,” went to Vietnam. He concluded his reports with a personal commentary.

“Who won and who lost in the great Tet offensive against the cities,” Cronkite asked? “I’m not sure. The Vietcong did not win by a knockout, but neither did we. The referees of history may make it a draw. It seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate.

“But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could.”

Cronkite’s editorial would be widely viewed as a critical turning point in public opinion toward the war.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/tet-offensive-shakes-us-confidence-over-vietnam-jan-30-1968-218085#ixzz3zwEQywbQ


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## tbquestion

It seems that the Vietnamese has been a long-standing customer of Russian military goods, yet it perplexed me that they have never negotiate for any tech transfer in their purchases. The Indonesians however negotiated for all their high tech purchases with the standing technology transfer requirement of 35 %.

It has been reported that Indonesia has agreed to purchase 10 SU-35 in return for 35 % tech transfer. Confirmed: Indonesia Will Buy 10 Russian S-35 Fighter Jets | The Diplomat

Rumors has it that Vietnam has agreed to buy 12 or more of the Russian's SU-30sm, yet no word of tech transfer. Maybe its time, the Vietnamese should ask their Indonesian neighbor to teach them negotiating skills.


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## Nike

tbquestion said:


> It seems that the Vietnamese has been a long-standing customer of Russian military goods, yet it perplexed me that they have never negotiate for any tech transfer in their purchases. The Indonesians however negotiated for all their high tech purchases with the standing technology transfer requirement of 35 %.
> 
> It has been reported that Indonesia has agreed to purchase 10 SU-35 in return for 35 % tech transfer. Confirmed: Indonesia Will Buy 10 Russian S-35 Fighter Jets | The Diplomat
> 
> Rumors has it that Vietnam has agreed to buy 12 or more of the Russian's SU-30sm, yet no word of tech transfer. Maybe its time, the Vietnamese should ask their Indonesian neighbor to teach them negotiating skills.



never got viral in mainstream media doesn't mean it's non-existent. Vietnam got some manufacturing capability from Soviet Union and then Russia to producing small arms, ammo, and several high caliber weapons. And they vigorously pursue rocket and missile technology. They create their own RPG's, Grad missiles, even Scuds. They can maintained their S-75 Dvina and Pechora missiles system, some of which even had been modernized at home is a testament. 

I am suspect Vietnam military industry is actually third most capable in ASEAN after our and Singapore.

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## Carlosa

tbquestion said:


> It seems that the Vietnamese has been a long-standing customer of Russian military goods, yet it perplexed me that they have never negotiate for any tech transfer in their purchases. The Indonesians however negotiated for all their high tech purchases with the standing technology transfer requirement of 35 %.
> 
> It has been reported that Indonesia has agreed to purchase 10 SU-35 in return for 35 % tech transfer. Confirmed: Indonesia Will Buy 10 Russian S-35 Fighter Jets | The Diplomat
> 
> Rumors has it that Vietnam has agreed to buy 12 or more of the Russian's SU-30sm, yet no word of tech transfer. Maybe its time, the Vietnamese should ask their Indonesian neighbor to teach them negotiating skills.



Just one question, out of curiosity, since no detail whatsoever about that SU-30SM sale to Vietnam has been released to the media (which is typical for Vietnamese military contracts), how do you know what has been negotiated or not? Do you have any special access to information regarding that sale?

Have you heard about the Russian sales of Uran antiship missiles that resulted in a tech transfer leading to license production in Vietnam?

Same story about Yakhont missiles which license production is rumored to start in Vietnam in 2017.

The recent sale of Israeli Spyder missiles is also rumored to include license production in Vietnam.

Surveillance radars have been produced in Vietnam based on tech transfer from Belarus and the Czech republic..

An indigenous passive radar is now in production in Vietnam as a consequence of the Vera-E purchase.

Drones are being produced after tech transfer from Belarus and others.

The sale of Molniya missile ships included tech transfer and production in Vietnam.

I think you are not well informed about Vietnam.


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## dichoi

Su -30 jets patrol on Spratly.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Just one question, out of curiosity, since no detail whatsoever about that SU-30SM sale to Vietnam has been released to the media (which is typical for Vietnamese military contracts), how do you know what has been negotiated or not? Do you have any special access to information regarding that sale?
> 
> Have you heard about the Russian sales of Uran antiship missiles that resulted in a tech transfer leading to license production in Vietnam?
> 
> Same story about Yakhont missiles which license production is rumored to start in Vietnam in 2017.
> 
> The recent sale of Israeli Spyder missiles is also rumored to include license production in Vietnam.
> 
> Surveillance radars have been produced in Vietnam based on tech transfer from Belarus and the Czech republic..
> 
> An indigenous passive radar is now in production in Vietnam as a consequence of the Vera-E purchase.
> 
> Drones are being produced after tech transfer from Belarus and others.
> 
> The sale of Molniya missile ships included tech transfer and production in Vietnam.
> 
> I think you are not well informed about Vietnam.



actually i will always read UN arms sales transfer report as per of my current jobs in government services, they will usually put notice about the condition of arm sales. Then some local media in Vietnam will give the hint sight about the conditions of Vietnam defense industry. Sure Vietnam defense industry had its own strength, but they had their own weakness too. The lacks of manufacturing capability in Vietnam in several sector of very important industry is very acute, and this hampering their potential growth significantly.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> actually i will always read UN arms sales transfer report as per of my current jobs in government services, they will usually put notice about the condition of arm sales. Then some local media in Vietnam will give the hint sight about the conditions of Vietnam defense industry. Sure Vietnam defense industry had its own strength, but they had their own weakness too. The lacks of manufacturing capability in Vietnam in several sector of very important industry is very acute, and this hampering their potential growth significantly.



The thing about Vietnam is that they rarely disclose tech transfers and if the suppliers also don't disclose it, then there is no easy way to know or confirm it.

The recent unveiled HS-6L uav is rumored to have been made with a tech transfer from Belarus, but nobody is saying anything, that's a very good example.

Anyway, the point here was not about how weak or strong the Vietnamese defense industry is, but whether Vietnam negotiates tech transfers or not. I would say that they are doing quite ok in that department, particularly in recent years and it seems to be the trend now.

Have to also consider that a tech transfer only makes sense if it is in an area where the country has the capability to utilize such tech transfer. Vietnam does not have a aircraft industry and it might not be interested in developing one, if that's the case then it will not bother to negotiate a tech transfer and they'll just concentrate in getting the best price points. Indonesia on the other hand, it does have an aircraft industry and as such, it will put out a good effort to get the best tech transfer that it can get; it only makes sense.

I see a lot of interest in developing missile technology and also a decision was recently made to expand the defense business of the company Viettel, that's the defense high tech company of Vietnam, I expect to see a lot coming out of that since the Viettel people are extremely capable.

In other areas, the defense industry is lacking in a shocking way. I'm quite amazed that Vietnam still doesn't make armored vehicles, something that many countries do and when it comes to naval industry , its still too primitive.


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam focus more on things that kill other things . That is why anti-tank and anti-ship weapon plus surface-to-air missile got plenty of resource . We got Soviet license on small arm , crew-served weapons and even short range ground to ground missiles as well (ranging from RPK to Scud) . Sure Indo got quite a robust industry to pursuit aircraft production and you got a good deal but hey , if you mean the negotiation skills then we got plenty , enough to be 1 of 2 Tactical ballistic missiles weapon operators in ASEAN (with longer range in later variant) , and maybe the only one with capibility in maintaince and production , with frequent upgrades from Russia and CIS ( which is currently "rumoured" to be far more potent than the old D variant )

Tank HMG gunner

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## Mokaman

tbquestion said:


> It seems that the Vietnamese has been a long-standing customer of Russian military goods, yet it perplexed me that they have never negotiate for any tech transfer in their purchases. The Indonesians however negotiated for all their high tech purchases with the standing technology transfer requirement of 35 %.
> 
> It has been reported that Indonesia has agreed to purchase 10 SU-35 in return for 35 % tech transfer. Confirmed: Indonesia Will Buy 10 Russian S-35 Fighter Jets | The Diplomat
> 
> Rumors has it that Vietnam has agreed to buy 12 or more of the Russian's SU-30sm, yet no word of tech transfer. Maybe its time, the Vietnamese should ask their Indonesian neighbor to teach them negotiating skills.


 Stop assuming craps, the truth doesn't lay in what you read in the newspapers and internet. Viet Nam is a hardcore communist country with a lot of secrets & close door dealings. Viet Nam also enjoy the longest and strongest military relationship with Russia (and URSS) among ASEAN . By the way 35% tech transfer is not a great % of success if you ask me but 100% is the success...

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## Mokaman

Carlosa said:


> In other areas, the defense industry is lacking in a shocking way. I'm quite amazed that Vietnam still doesn't make armored vehicles, something that many countries do and when it comes to naval industry , its still too primitive.



I think Vietnam lack of armor and IFV industry is because VPA doctrine still rely too much on infantrymen and old fighting warfare doctrine (because of the experiences of past warfares). And also (just like China 25 years ago) Viet Nam doesn't have the road infrastructure for quick movement of mechanized units and lack of automobile industry for quality design and production. When the transport infrastructure and automobile industry will be advanced, the armor and infantry fighting armor will start. Sometime the national (civilian) economy will pave (and dictate) the way for the modernization of the armed forces.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> The thing about Vietnam is that they rarely disclose tech transfers and if the suppliers also don't disclose it, then there is no easy way to know or confirm it.
> 
> The recent unveiled HS-6L uav is rumored to have been made with a tech transfer from Belarus, but nobody is saying anything, that's a very good example.
> 
> Anyway, the point here was not about how weak or strong the Vietnamese defense industry is, but whether Vietnam negotiates tech transfers or not. I would say that they are doing quite ok in that department, particularly in recent years and it seems to be the trend now.
> 
> Have to also consider that a tech transfer only makes sense if it is in an area where the country has the capability to utilize such tech transfer. Vietnam does not have a aircraft industry and it might not be interested in developing one, if that's the case then it will not bother to negotiate a tech transfer and they'll just concentrate in getting the best price points. Indonesia on the other hand, it does have an aircraft industry and as such, it will put out a good effort to get the best tech transfer that it can get; it only makes sense.
> 
> I see a lot of interest in developing missile technology and also a decision was recently made to expand the defense business of the company Viettel, that's the defense high tech company of Vietnam, I expect to see a lot coming out of that since the Viettel people are extremely capable.
> 
> In other areas, the defense industry is lacking in a shocking way. I'm quite amazed that Vietnam still doesn't make armored vehicles, something that many countries do and when it comes to naval industry , its still too primitive.



To know your own weakness and Strength points you can made a decent road map for your defense industries and from that made the best effort/bang for the bucks given the lacks of resource Vietnam had.

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## Rechoice

Training more !

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## Viet

Forensic

Vietnam´s Institute of Biotechnology begins the world´s largest ever systematic identification effort, a $150 million forensic project spanning more than 10 years, with the aim to identify person. based upon the DNA extracted from decaying body remains. estimated 650,000 person went missing during the Vietnam war, that ends 41 years ago. Leading forensic and DNA companies in Germany and Holland as Bioglobe and Biontis will assist Vietnamese government in the effort. the modern forensic labors could identify up to 10,000 person a year.

Why all the efforts?

as the article below points out: most people in Vietnam believe to Buddhism therefore it is very important for them to know the whereabouts of their relatives.








Vietnam Begins Huge Effort to Identify War Dead - Scientific American






08.02.2016, 20:44
* GITZ Forensik: Millionenaufträge für Geesthachter Firmen*






GITZ-Geschäftsführer Rainer Döhl-Oelze freut sich, dass Andreas Zucker (Biontis) und Olaf Jüttner (RES) kooperieren (v.li.).



Geesthacht. RES-Geschäftsführer Olaf Jüttner hat den Deal mit seinen langjährigen Kontakten nach Asien eingefädelt. Bis zu 150 Millionen US-Dollar (rund 135 Millionen Euro) soll der Auftrag für die deutschen Unternehmen umfassen.

„Ich freue mich, dass Firmen aus dem GITZ erneut an einem großen internationalen Auftrag beteiligt sind und dass die Nachbarschaft im GITZ zu der Kooperation geführt hat. Allein für sich hätten es beide Firmen nicht leicht gehabt, hier zum Zug zu kommen“, sagt Rainer Döhl-Oelze, Geschäftsführer des GITZ: „Das sind die Effekte, die ein Technologiezentrum auszeichnen.“

*Seit 40 Jahren in Asien tätig*

Projektentwickler Jüttner arbeitet seit etwa 40 Jahren in Asien, war in Taiwan, Japan, Indonesien, Malaysia und Korea. Er schätzt, dass er schon mehr als 250-mal im Flieger nach Asien unterwegs war, meistens in Sachen Export von Maschinen- und Industrieanlagen. „Heute kümmere ich mich um das Engineering in vielen Bereichen, von Recycling über Müllbeseitigung bis hin zu Laborausstattung“, berichtet Jüttner. Über all diese Aufgaben gelangte er an Kontakte bis in hohe Regierungskreise. Jüttner, der auch Europarepräsentant der Advanced International Stock Company (AIC) ist, sagt: „Solche Kontakte sind unerlässlich, denn die Regierung gibt die Finanzmittel für große Projekte frei.“

Im neuesten Projekt, der groß angelegten DNA-Untersuchung, sollen bis 2020 mindestens 80 000 der schätzungsweise 650 000 im Vietnam-Krieg verschollenen Opfer anhand ihrer sterblichen Überreste identifiziert werden. „Die meisten Menschen in Vietnam gehören dem Buddhismus an, da ist es sehr wichtig, den Verbleib der Angehörigen zu kennen“, weiß Jüttner. Er machte sich schlau, wen er als Partner mit ins Boot holen könnte – und wurde direkt im GITZ bei Andreas Zucker fündig. Der hatte 2002 Biontis gegründet, Spezialist für Laboranalyseverfahren. „Wir entwickeln für Analysen die nötige Gerätetechnik und schulen bei Bedarf die Bediener“, erklärt Zucker. „Mit unserem Komplettpaket haben wir in Vietnam überzeugt.“

Der DNA-Auftrag ist eine extreme Herausforderung: Die Knochen der Kriegsopfer lagen jahrzehntelang in nur geringer Tiefe, sind durch das feuchtwarme Klima und mikrobiellen und Pflanzenbewuchs in Mitleidenschaft gezogen. Und: Die Soldaten damals waren jung, hatten nur selten Kinder, ihre Eltern sind unterdessen gestorben. Da wird es eine große Aufgabe sein, Angehörige zu ermitteln. Die geplante Datenbank soll helfen, DNA von Toten und Bürgern abzugleichen. Ein automatisierter Arbeitsablauf während der Vergleiche soll Fehler ausschließen.

*Probleme gibt es in Vietnam viele*

„Wir sind ein Hort für jede Menge Technologien und Lösungen, die sonst niemand auf der Welt hat“, sagt Zucker. Er hofft deshalb, weitere Geschäfte in Vietnam machen zu können. „Probleme gibt es dort genug, etwa durch illegale Müllkippen und Bodenverschmutzungen“, weiß Jüttner. Die beiden Unternehmen wollen sogar eine neue Firma ins GITZ holen: Die soll sich um die Schulung von Personal zur Aufbereitung des oft verschmutzten Wassers in Vietnam kümmern.

GITZ - Forensik: Millionenaufträge für Geesthachter Firmen - Geesthacht - Bergedorfer Zeitung


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> To know your own weakness and Strength points you can made a decent road map for your defense industries and from that made the best effort/bang for the bucks given the lacks of resource Vietnam had.



Yes, of course. Money is very limited in Vietnam and it does cost a lot to develop military industries, so the choices of what particular segments of the defense industry can be realistically developed are limited, there is only so much money. In some areas, the economies of scale are just not there and it wouldn't be worth it to even try. I think missile technology and radars is where we'll see the main efforts.

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## Viet

6/2/2016. a heavy aircraft transporter An-124-100 hands over two more SU-30 to Vietnam Airforce, serial number 88520 and 88521, bringing the total number to 36.







a legacy of the major war: a US made M114 155mm howitzer, continue to service the VPA artillery corps.







Medium range radar VRS-M2D, base on P-18 radar, developed by Viettel Corp.








a P18 early warning radar staff, Lang Son, close to the border to China






a aerial defence unit with P35 early warning and acquisition radar, range 350km, altitude 25 km

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## Viet

Marine Corps

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## Viet

the "grey" Marine Corps

I believe, unlike the "blue", the "grey" are usually stationed on islands, all times ready to counter possible enemy assaults.

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## Mokaman

Viet said:


>



VPA marines are in the good way of modernization. But they still lack of 3 essential things to be a modern infantry force: Individual communication devices, night vision googles and bulletproof vest for each member. And I'm sure those babies will come very soon for all Élite VPA units, it just a normal progression for all modern infantry forces in the world

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## Aqsuperman

Well the M203 use the same ammo as M79 so we dont need to produce 1 more type of ammo . But in another way , our crew-served weapon , in this case the AGS 17 , use 35mm grenade . If their operate together will surely create some logistics problem


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> VPA marines are in the good way of modernization. But they still lack of 3 essential things to be a modern infantry force: Individual communication devices,* night vision googles* and bulletproof vest for each member. And I'm sure those babies will come very soon for all Élite VPA units, it just a normal progression for all modern infantry forces in the world


Vietnam already produces different kinds of night vision googles and target finders.







Kính ngắm bắn đêm cho súng đại liên PKMSN.









Thiết bị ngắm bắn nhanh ngày đêm bằng laser bán dẫn.










Kính ngắm bắn đêm cho pháo Zu23-2, bắn mục tiêu mặt đất.
















even one for AA gun night combat







for standard rifles and machine guns

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## Viet

*Submarine*


the #6: Kilo attack submarine *187 Bà Rịa - Vũng Tàu* left St. Petersburg and has just arrived Kaliningrad for sea trails. Baltic sea.














Phóng to
Tàu ngầm Bà Rịa – Vũng Tàu tại cảng Svetlyy của Hạm đội Baltic, gần thành phố Baltiysk, tỉnh Kaliningrad ngày 5/2/2016 - Ảnh: Diễn đàn Hải quân Nga




a video when the sub *187 Bà Rịa Vũng Tàu* is launched at the shipyard in St. Petersburg.

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## Viet

I like it. make old to new:

- mounting an AA gun on a truck
- for example: ZU-23-2 AA gun
- develop an automatic gun loader
- installing a target acquistion system of a laser distance meter, optical-electronic viewfinder, nigh vision device
- a joystick allows the gunner to fire in 360 degrees

voila, we have make in Vietnam mobile automatic AA gun.

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## Viet

India Fleet Review 2016


Rear Admiral Pham Hoai Nam of Vietnam Navy Command pays a courtesy visit to his counterpart.






watching the parade







Frigate Đinh Tiên Hoàng












sailors of Frigate Đinh Tiên Hoàng greeting the leading Destroyer with India president onboard






have I appealed many times here and there we need destroyers, too? 






India warships






a frigate of Thai Navy


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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> Vietnam already produces different kinds of night vision googles and target finders.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kính ngắm bắn đêm cho súng đại liên PKMSN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thiết bị ngắm bắn nhanh ngày đêm bằng laser bán dẫn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kính ngắm bắn đêm cho pháo Zu23-2, bắn mục tiêu mặt đất.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> even one for AA gun night combat
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> for standard rifles and machine guns


Yes Viet Nam produce all the items: personal communication devices, night vision and bullet proof vests. But they need to speed the selection (of which one they want) and start the production to make a standard issue for all major units. Because it take a certain time to train with those equipments and adapted those toys to the fighting tactics. PLA have already integrated those equipments into their best units for a while now. Night combat skills will be a great addition for VPA combat readiness and competent. And those equipments are pretty cheap to produce and will have a real impact in the battle. For a cost of a boat or plane, you could supply fully a lot of units

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## Aqsuperman

AGS 17 automatic-Grenade launcher using 35mm grenades , oh yeah this thing can do some serious damage :3


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## katarabhumi

Mokaman said:


> Stop assuming craps, the truth doesn't lay in what you read in the newspapers and internet. Viet Nam is a hardcore communist country with a lot of secrets & close door dealings. Viet Nam also enjoy the longest and strongest military relationship with Russia (and URSS) among ASEAN . By the way 35% tech transfer is not a great % of success if you ask me but 100% is the success...



35% is great considering we only buy 10. Indonesia isn't a new player in aircraft industry. 35% tech from Russia can be a valuable addition to our fighter development with SK.


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## Mokaman

katarabhumi said:


> 35% is great considering we only buy 10. Indonesia isn't a new player in aircraft industry. 35% tech from Russia can be a valuable addition to our fighter development with SK.


Like I said earlier, we don't have the details of that 35% tech transfer and it probably the lesser important stuffs of the aircraft they will transfer (that 35% for sure won't include engine, weapons and high tech stuffs). Indonesians already have a good aviation industry, that's why the Russian won't mind to have a 35% tech transfer (because the Indonesians will find out how to make them anyway). It like someone build you a car and show you only how to make 4 doors and the trunk door, windshield, rear mirror (basically the shitty stuffs...)...By the way, those Vietnamese communist leaders are sneaky as hell, who went through 5 wars (the actual prime minister Dung was a soldier and was wounded 3 times during the American war, crazy eh?!!!) and know how to beg for free weapons to every nations during wars and today use their dollars like a cheap prick

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## Viet

Analysis

*Laos, Vietnam: New Leaders Reflect Struggle To Stay the Course*
February 5, 2016 | 09:32 GMT 

Stratfor







_Military delegates at the closing ceremony of the Vietnam Communist Party's 12th National Congress in Hanoi on Jan. 28. (KHAM/AFP/Getty Images)_


*Analysis*

Southeast Asia is a region in transition. China's rise as the premier regional power has spurred growth but also competition, forcing governments to recalculate. However, in the eastern half of mainland Southeast Asia, the prevalence of one-party governments means that political change is usually slow and subtle — and rarely transparent. The past few weeks illustrated this trend in Vietnam and Laos, with the long-ruling Communist parties in each undergoing contentious leadership transitions.

In both countries, the debate among party leaders has centered on how best to take advantage of Asia's growth and engage internationally. Chief among their concerns, of course, is managing relations with China. In neither country, however, does the leadership change herald a fundamental shift in strategic or economic orientation. Instead, high-profile shake-ups in each capital were prompted largely by the desire to preserve the legitimacy of one-party rule amid a rapidly changing domestic and regional landscape.


*The Vietnam Debate: More Than East vs. West*


In Vietnam, a rare degree of political intrigue surrounded January's semi-decennial Communist Party National Congress, normally a scripted unveiling of the country's top leaders and policy priorities for the next five years. The next president, prime minister and National Assembly leader were confirmed without public drama. (They will be formally elected in a rubber-stamp vote by the National Assembly in May.) The Politburo, Vietnam's top policymaking body, was expanded by three members to broaden representation among various regional and sectoral factions. But the contest for the general secretary position, the most powerful in the country, threatened to spark political crisis in Hanoi. In the end, General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong unexpectedly outmaneuvered the powerful Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung to win at least a two-year extension as Party chief. Mainstream narratives portray the outcome as a win for pro-China conservatives over pro-U.S. reformers.

Hanoi is indeed divided on how to live in China's growing economic and security shadow, but the political controversy surrounding the transition had little to do with specific policy positions. After all, both Trong and Dung have had mixed ties with Beijing, and Trong signed off on a number of pro-West moves, some that angered Beijing. As Stratfor has explained previously, geopolitical imperatives, namely Vietnam's need to defend itself against China's push into the South China Sea and to reduce its economic dependence on Chinese trade and investment would compel any Vietnamese leader to pursue economic and security engagement with a range of outside powers. Among the new leadership, the top four have all visited the United States in the past year. Two others in the Politburo were educated in the United States.

Meanwhile, consensus on the need for Western economic integration was emphasized repeatedly in policy documents and in statements throughout the Party congress. Notably, the 200-member Central Committee, the country's second-most powerful body, endorsed Vietnam's participation in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. And since the end of the plenum, Hanoi has gone to great lengths to counter mainstream narratives that Dung's ouster will threaten the country's slow but steady move toward a market economy, which picked up steam under the outgoing prime minister.

Instead, the power struggle stemmed more from Party elders' desire to preserve Vietnam's consensus-oriented decision-making model, centered around the conservative-dominated Politburo — a model Dung was effectively undermining with his bid to stay in power. More broadly, the focus was on reclaiming control over the pace of Vietnam's international engagement and economic liberalization to prevent it from subverting Party interests.







A self-styled champion of economic reform, the charismatic Dung used his control over sources of state lending and patronage to build a vast power base, along with strong ties with foreign investors, during his 10 years as prime minister. But Vietnam is effectively ruled by committee, a model designed to prevent its historical regional divides from reopening. And the rapid rise of a political maverick like Dung (who hails from the disproportionally wealthy south), along with the growing power of southern factions in the Central Committee, was seen as destabilizing to the Party's carefully cultivated internal balance.

Furthermore, the strengthening of the prime ministerial office and other state institutions under Dung stoked fears that the state would evolve into a parallel power structure rivaling the Party. On economic liberalization, senior conservatives viewed Dung as an overzealous purveyor of crony capitalism who risked becoming captive to his own patronage network — and whose role in some high-profile economic failures and corruption allegations damaged public trust in the Party. On relations with China, he was seen as reckless, too willing to act out of step with the consensus in Hanoi. 

Thus, Trong and his conservative allies forged a compromise arrangement that will push Dung into retirement but preserve broad regional and factional representation, avoiding a crisis with Central Committee factions that initially balked at Trong's procedural maneuvers to block Dung's ascendance. In the near term, this arrangement bodes well for stability and policy continuity, preventing an interfactional scramble to fill the vacuum left behind by the 12 retiring Politburo members.

But Vietnam's collective decision-making model makes Hanoi vulnerable to paralysis and policy incoherence, and makes it slow to adapt to the demands of a demographically young, rapidly modernizing populace. Even under Dung, economic reform tended to limp forward. For example, the government reportedly fell far short of its goal of privatizing nearly 300 state-owned firms in 2015 (and in those that have been opened, only minimal private shares have been offered).

This struggle stems in part from Hanoi's rule-by-committee model, where a relatively small number of Party elites — themselves benefiting from a patronage-heavy system in which power and wealth are typically gained by protecting entrenched interests — have the power to block contentious policies. And the model will continue to slow the push for modernization in Vietnam, despite encouraging consensus on the broad direction the country is headed.


*Laos: Looking for Leverage*
*
*
In Laos, meanwhile, the leadership transition has been portrayed as an attempt to shift away from the country's growing reliance on China and back toward Vietnam, which backed the Lao Communist takeover in 1975 and has remained its primary patron ever since. Laos is still run largely by an aging generation of former Pathet Lao independence fighters who, with Vietnamese backing, fought off the Americans from a network of secret cave headquarters in the eastern mountains.






_Bounnhang Vorachith_


But President Choummaly Sayasone and, more unexpectedly, Prime Minister Thongsing Thammavong are both stepping down, at least in part due to unease among Party elders about the country's tilt toward the Chinese over the past decade. Their replacements — Bounnhang Vorachit as president and Thongloun Sisoulith as prime minister — are seen as more wary of Beijing's influence. Also ousted was Deputy Prime Minister Somsavat Lengsavad, an ethnic Chinese credited with attracting Chinese corporate investment to the country. He was also a main driver of efforts to break ground on a Chinese-backed high-speed rail line, despite mounting concerns about unfavorable financial terms and long-term debt obligations (and the train's limited utility to the Lao people). Notably, over the past two months, a former finance minister and a central bank governor were arrested on corruption charges related to business ties with the Chinese.

A turn back toward Vietnam would be notable, considering that Laos' hearty embrace of Chinese investment over the past decade was driven, in part, by the need to reduce an over-reliance on Vietnam. But the competition over Laos is hardly a zero-sum game. And as a landlocked, underdeveloped nation (its gross domestic product in 2014 was just $12 billion), Laos has little choice but to seek greater cooperation with all of its more powerful neighbors — even those to which it historically has been subordinate.

To capitalize on Southeast Asia's robust growth and overcome its geographic limitations, Laos has been recasting itself as a corridor country capable of unlocking new trade routes sorely needed in a geographically fragmented region. This endeavor requires substantial foreign assistance, which — combined with the strategic and economic value China sees in the landlocked state — will prevent a major break with the Chinese.

Ultimately, Laos is seeking to use competition among outside powers to better dictate the terms of its international engagement, however little leverage it has. Vientiane may seek to renegotiate certain controversial infrastructure and mining projects in the coming years. (China, for example, needs the north-south high-speed railway far more than Laos does.) But it will have limited success in areas where outside powers are not directly competing.

A more telling gauge of outside influence in Vientiane will be Laos' ambitious drive to build a number of dams in the Mekong River Basin, where the interests of littoral states (particularly Vietnam and Cambodia, which are working to stop the plans) are more diametrically opposed — and where Laos itself is trying to balance its need for the power and income the dams would generate with domestic opposition to their environmental impact. Notably, Vientiane announced Feb. 3 that it would increase Vietnam's share of Lao electricity exports.

In Laos, as in Vietnam, the change in leadership also appears driven by a need to prevent the country's headlong pursuit of commercialization from undermining the Communist Party's hold on power or warping its regional priorities. A flood of investment has evidently brought with it abundant opportunities for corruption on a scale beyond levels of patronage otherwise considered appropriate. As has become increasingly evident across the globe over the past year, but particularly in China, anti-corruption probes can serve as both tools to eliminate political challengers and a means to preserve one-party rule. And Laos — a country already facing enough difficulties carving out a semblance of geopolitical independence — can ill afford to have individual interests dictate its path forward.



Laos, Vietnam: New Leaders Reflect Struggle To Stay the Course


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## yugocrosrb95

Does VPA use any weapon with 5.56x45 mm NATO round?

M885A1 has better penetration than 7.62x39 due to more focused kinetic impact.


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> Yes Viet Nam produce all the items: personal communication devices, night vision and bullet proof vests. But they need to speed the selection (of which one they want) and start the production to make a standard issue for all major units. Because it take a certain time to train with those equipments and adapted those toys to the fighting tactics. PLA have already integrated those equipments into their best units for a while now. Night combat skills will be a great addition for VPA combat readiness and competent. And those equipments are pretty cheap to produce and will have a real impact in the battle. For a cost of a boat or plane, you could supply fully a lot of units


actually I hope we soon begin to build big warships and establish avionic/aircraft industry. ha ha ha ...

sure, if we have a defence budget of Singapore or Japan, and not some $3-4 billion yearly, many expensive toys such as destroyer, cruiser and aircraft carrier, or at cheaper cost, nice suits for the VPA ground fighting force are within reach. in the meanwhile, to bring a smile on one´s face, one positive thing as mentioned in the latest global fire ranking just comes out : we have 4.4 billion barrels as crude oil reserves, just behind China and India in Asia in terms of crude oil reserves. given our actual oil consumption, the reserves are good for 37 years.


Vietnam Military Strength







Vietnam
Ranked as 21 of 126
GFP Power Index rating of 0.7033


the southeast Asian nation of Vietnam has consistently fielded a large fighting force numbering in the hundreds of thousands.


Total Population: 94,348,835
Available Manpower: 50,650,000
Fit for Service: 41,505,000
Reaching Military Age Annually: 1,640,000
Active Frontline Personnel: 415,000
Active Reserve Personnel: 5,040,000


Tanks: 1,470
Armored Fighting Vehicles (AFVs): 3,150
Self-Propelled Guns (SPGs): 524
Towed-Artillery: 2,200
Multiple-Launch Rocket Systems (MLRSs): 1,100


Total Aircraft: 289
Fighters/Interceptors: 73
Fixed-Wing Attack Aircraft: 73
Transport Aircraft: 161
Trainer Aircraft: 26
Helicopters: 150
Attack Helicopters: 25


Total Naval Strength: 65
Aircraft Carriers: 0
Frigates: 7
Destroyers: 0
Corvettes: 11
Submarines: 5
Coastal Defense Craft: 23
Mine Warfare: 8


Oil Production: 298,400 bbl/day
Oil Consumption: 325,000 bbl/day
Proven Oil Reserves: 4,400,000,000 bbl/day

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## Viet

*Vietnam´s National Satellite Center
*
...just coming in the news: Vu Anh Tuan, Deputy Director of the National Satellite Center, announces two new satellites, worth US$ 600 million, will be launched into space in 2019. no further details given, just satellites will help boost agricultural production and minimize natural disaster impact. I assume they are earth observation satellites, with high resolution camera and radars on-board, not only good for civil but also for military purposes. one of them can be Japan X-band satellite, a variant of ASNARO, with optical sensors capable to make/recognise images/objects of resolution of 0.5 m across.


Japan’s NEC Looks To Expand Commercial Market Footprint - SpaceNews.com

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Does VPA use any weapon with 5.56x45 mm NATO round?
> 
> M885A1 has better penetration than 7.62x39 due to more focused kinetic impact.


maybe other viet members can answer, as far as in the news, the Z113 factory produces 7.62 mm NATO standard bullet. why your question? do you think the VPA intends to join the NATO?


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> maybe other viet members can answer, as far as in the news, the Z113 factory produces 7.62 mm NATO standard bullet. why your question? do you think the VPA intends to join the NATO?



Would't be cheaper to produce 5.56 in the long run? And for soldiers to carry more rounds to allow more agressive infrantry combat with less ammo restrictions such as suppression of the enemy.


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## tbquestion

Israel is currently showcasing their military hard-wares at an exhibit in Singapore.

Globes English - Israel's defense exports fall but not steeply

Some of the toys such as such "Iron Dome interceptors" for ships should invite VPA 's interest.

Since Vietnam is proficient at producing ammunition, one wonder if it could compete with the like of IMI on a global scale and export small caliber ammo such 5.56 mm.

Globes English - IMI wins Spanish ammunition deal


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## dichoi

training with M41 Walker Bulldog.

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## Aqsuperman

For NATO standard rounds we do use some like TAR-21 AR , Negev LMG and Galatz SR in the Naval Infantry department , also we do have M60 on our M113 that use 7.62mm NATO and M16 , AR-15 from Civil Defense units . Still , the rest of our army use 7.62 x 39mm round .The reason why we put our faith in our 7.62mm M43 are its readily available and range training . Even our new Galil use it . Changing primary ammunition types is very troublesome , Take Geogria fro example ,, changing the entire system to Nato standard and arsenal just to change them back when war with Russia broke out . It penetration is very good for a country like our and its not like we can jump on and produce the newest type of 5.56mm and it work as planned


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## Viet

tbquestion said:


> Israel is currently showcasing their military hard-wares at an exhibit in Singapore.
> 
> Globes English - Israel's defense exports fall but not steeply
> 
> Some of the toys such as such "Iron Dome interceptors" for ships should invite VPA 's interest.
> 
> Since Vietnam is proficient at producing ammunition, one wonder if it could compete with the like of IMI on a global scale and export small caliber ammo such 5.56 mm.
> 
> Globes English - IMI wins Spanish ammunition deal


theoretically I think we can deliver ammunitions and small arms for the NATO. but as Spain is a NATO member, so practically unlikely right now, unless the US ends their hatred and lifts arms embargo on Vietnam. pictures of some VN ammunitions and arms factories. there are a lot progresses made in recent years.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Would't be cheaper to produce 5.56 in the long run? And for soldiers to carry more rounds to allow more agressive infrantry combat with less ammo restrictions such as suppression of the enemy.


different things: 7.62 mm ammunition for machine gun, calibre 5.56 mm for rifle such as Galil.


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## Viet

President Obama to visit Vietnam in May, United States News & Top Stories - The Straits Times





_US President Barack Obama welcoming Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung at Sunnylands, California, on Feb 15. PHOTO: REUTERS_


RANCHO MIRAGE, California (REUTERS) - US President Barack Obama will visit Vietnam in May during a trip to Asia, a White House official said on Monday (Feb 15).

Mr Obama accepted the invitation by Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung during a meeting at a summit of South-east Asian nations in California.

"The president and Prime Minister Dung discussed the continued strengthening of US-Vietnam relations in 2015, which marked the 20th anniversary of the restoration of diplomatic relations," the official said.

"The leaders noted the importance of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, maritime security, and human rights to advancing bilateral relations," he said.


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> different things: 7.62 mm ammunition for machine gun, calibre 5.56 mm for rifle such as Galil.



Aren't Vietnam producing Galil ACE chambering 7.62x39 round?


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## Viet

*Shipbuilding*


I believe, this is the first time ever, the Triyards shipyard in Saigon has received a contract to build an oceanographic research vessel for Taiwan. a major step forward for VN shipbuilding industry. Designed by a dutch company, powered by diesel-electric generators, 67 m, 43 crew, equipped with modern toys, scheduled for delivery in August 2017.

The Motorship | Taiwan commissions oceanographic research vessel


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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Aren't Vietnam producing Galil ACE chambering 7.62x39 round?


Why VPA would change for 5.56 when they already have +millions weapons using 7.62, huge ammo stocks and production facilities? It a huge army of 450 000 here, not some small army of 10-20 000 troop. As myself a user of 5.56mm, yes it's very precise and light to carry but it still lack the punch of 7.62 in close quarter combat. I want to see a guy falling down after taking a shot of 7.62 rather than see a guy still walking after a couple 5.56. People fall in love with the firepower and destruction of 7.62. And a few extra kilos weight of 7.62 ammo is not something the infantrymen would complaint much.The replacement Galil Ace 31 and Ace 32 are all 7.62mm. VPA still use the AR15 with the 5.56 mm.

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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> Why VPA would change for 5.56 when they already have +millions weapons using 7.62, huge ammo stocks and production facilities? It a huge army of 450 000 here, not some small army of 10-20 000 troop. As myself a user of 5.56mm, yes it's very precise and light to carry but it still lack the punch of 7.62 in close quarter combat. I want to see a guy falling down after taking a shot of 7.62 rather than see a guy still walking after a couple 5.56. People fall in love with the firepower and destruction of 7.62. And a few extra kilos weight of 7.62 ammo is not something the infantrymen would complaint much.The replacement Galil Ace 31 and Ace 32 are all 7.62mm. VPA still use the AR15 with the 5.56 mm.



You are right. Some insights about the differences: 

First off the NATO round is 7.62 x 51 mm, the 7.62 x 54 is Russian. 

The supposed advantage of carrying twice as much 5.56 ammunition seems to be outweighed by the tendency to spray on full auto, instead of well placed shots. I know there are times when that is what is called for, especially when surprised at closer ranges, street fighting, ambushes etc. But overall, the tendency to adopt such small calibers seems like a poor substitute for good training and marksmanship if you have the time to develop it. 

Having a rifle light and fast shooting for the semi-trained masses, may not be the best choice for a smaller cadre of professional soldiers. As an historical example, the peacetime British Army before WWI had as basic rifle qualification, the ability to hit a target ten to fifteen times in a minute at 900 yards, with iron sights, and 10 rounds on target in 30 seconds at 600 yards. The Germans thought they were coming under long range machine gun fire when they first encountered the Lee Enfield at Mons. Not everyone aspires to that performance, but myself I would rather not be caught dead armed with a 5.56mm rifle in some tactical situations. 

1. greater range - I would put my money on a good shooter with a FAL at >600 yards, over two guys armed with AR-15s. 

2. windage - in a modest cross-wind, load up some tracer and see what happens to your 5.56mm bullets on full auto vs 7.62.

3. bush light cover - even at the shorter ranges, lighter faster bullets will be deflected by twigs, whereas the 7.62 can go through the bole of 4-6" diameter softwood trees. 

4. hitting power - Supposedly the tendency of the 5.56 to tumble on impact equalizes this somewhat, but I would not count on wounding enemy soldiers to tie down adversaries in battle conditions. Numerous stories of assailants with six 5.56 wounds still standing. One hit from a 7.62 in the center of mass or even a limb, and that man is down. They don't even allow .22 caliber arms for hunting for that reason, its considered 'inhumane'. 

5. Flak vests, light composite armors - substantially reduce the impacts from light bullets at ranges that would not stop a 7.62.

Complaints were also registered from the combat troops forced to used the M16, who averred that presuming they could get the rifle to work at all, two and three hits were required to drop one enemy soldier, whereas a single hit from a 7.62 NATO round dropped an enemy every time. The dispute continues today.

Regardless of the M14 having disadvantages in jungle warfare, 7.62×51mm NATO rifles stayed in military service around the world due to several factors. The 7.62×51mm NATO has proved much more effective than 5.56×45mm at long ranges, and has since found popularity as a sniping round.

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## Viet

*Russian Helicopters plans first repairs of military helicopters in Vietnam
*
2016/02/16
Russian Helicopters Press Release







_Russia Mi-8 / Mi-17 Helicopter_



Russian Helicopters, part of State Corporation Rostec, continues to develop cooperation with Vietnam in the field of helicopter maintenance and repairs. The company is reviewing options to conduct the Mi-8/17 military helicopters repairs at the joint Russo-Vietnamese venture *HELITECHO*.

Plans to develop an after-sales system for Russian-made military helicopters in Vietnam were addressed during the 17th conference of the Vietnam-Russia Intergovernmental Committee for Military Technical Cooperation, which was held late in 2015.

Now, Russian Helicopters will perform a scheduled technical audit of the joint Russo-Vietnamese repair venture HELITECHO to check its compliance with requirements to perform maintenance and repairs of the *Mi-8/17 helicopters*.

“In case of a positive result, the repairs of Russian-made civil helicopters in Vietnam will be continued,” said Igor Chechikov, Russian Helicopter’s deputy CEO for aftersales service.* “In addition, as part of our partnership, we will consider the possibility to organize repairs of the Mi-8/17 military helicopters operated by the Ministry of Defense of Vietnam at HELITECHCO. It would involve reequipping the enterprise and additional training of specialists.”*

Russo-Vietnamese helicopter repairing company HELITECHCO was founded in 1994. Since then the company has repaired more than 80 civil helicopters belonging to government and commercial operators in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, India, Australia and New Zealand. Today, HELITECHCO is the only aviation repairing company in Southeast Asia supervised by the builder of the legendary Mi- series, Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant, a subsidiary of Russian Helicopters.

In addition to cooperation in repairs of military helicopters, the Ministry of Defense of Vietnam showed interest in Ansat helicopters for training purposes. As part of the bilateral dialogue, HELITECHCO is planning to participate in the Singapore Airshow 2016, February 16 to 21.

HELITECHCO will be featured at the Russian Helicopters pavilion and will perform joint cobranding actions as part of the expo.




--
---
----
------



*Southern Vietnam border defense force receives modern patrol boat*


Tuoi Tre News
Updated : 02/17/2016 10:22 GMT + 7






_BP 20 19-01 returning to shore after a test run at sea_



A modern blue-water patrol and rescue boat was handed over on Tuesday by the Ministry of Defense to the Border Command of Kien Giang, a province in the Mekong Delta region of southern Vietnam.

The ceremony took place at Phao Dai Border Post in the town of Ha Tien, Kien Giang, the westernmost region of southern Vietnam bordering Cambodia to the west and the Gulf of Thailand to the southwest.

The boat, code-named BP 20 19-01, is said to be the most modern of its kind to be given to the Border Command of Kien Giang and carries a high-velocity *water canon* designed for firefighting operations or the protection of Vietnamese waters against foreign trespassers.

The boat started to be built in 2012 in the northern province of Hai Phong along with a batch of similar patrol boats.

The boat, which is 30m long and 6.7m wide, has a surface height of 3.6m, a waterline of 2m and maximum displacement of *160 tons*, is made of *hardened steel* and boasts a total power of 3,822HP.

The vessel is equipped with an electronic-hydraulic maneuvering system with the option of manual or automatic maneuvering, together with state-of-the-art technology including depth sounders, tachometers, a satellite positioning system, a weather map receiver, and an automatic fire alarm.

A firefighting system using carbon dioxide as well as an emergency room are also integrated into the boat’s design. BP 20 19-01 can operate in big waves reaching level 8 and can simultaneously carry out rescue missions for multiple ships in distress.

Alongside maritime rescue operations, the advanced vessel can also cooperate with other forces in protecting Vietnam’s national sovereignty at sea.

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## cnleio

dichoi said:


> training with M41 Walker Bulldog.


So many M41 light tanks .... still serving in VPA ???


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## yugocrosrb95

Mokaman said:


> Why VPA would change for 5.56 when they already have +millions weapons using 7.62, huge ammo stocks and production facilities? It a huge army of 450 000 here, not some small army of 10-20 000 troop. As myself a user of 5.56mm, yes it's very precise and light to carry but it still lack the punch of 7.62 in close quarter combat. I want to see a guy falling down after taking a shot of 7.62 rather than see a guy still walking after a couple 5.56. People fall in love with the firepower and destruction of 7.62. And a few extra kilos weight of 7.62 ammo is not something the infantrymen would complaint much.The replacement Galil Ace 31 and Ace 32 are all 7.62mm. VPA still use the AR15 with the 5.56 mm.



Oh... Excuses... Blame 5.56 for your incompetence and ignore latest 5.56 variant which has equal penetrating and killing power of 7.62x39, go get yourself killed when your 7.62x39 fails to penetrate body armor of chinese soldier while m855A1 would go through due to more focused impact energy.



cnleio said:


> So many M41 light tanks .... still serving in VPA ???



You are still using your own variants of T-54/T-55, anyway...

M41 is still useful, at least against infrantry and any armor that isn't a tank.

In Yugoslav wars, T-34's were used for infrantry support and even in Syrian civil war it is used for that.

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## cnleio

yugocrosrb95 said:


> You are still using your own variants of T-54/T-55, anyway...
> 
> M41 is still useful, at least against infrantry and any armor that isn't a tank.
> 
> In Yugoslav wars, T-34's were used for infrantry support and even in Syrian civil war it is used for that.


1. M41's 25mm steel armor weaker than Type59's 100~120mm armor design
2. Today PLA doesn't have many Type59 tanks, most r ZTZ96/99/99A MBT ... few type59 saving for normal training.
3. Today most 12.7mm machine-gun with armour-piercing rounds can shoot through the 25mm steel armor, not alone ATGM etc ... not useful to against modern infrantry, or u just think U.S/Russia/China soldiers also using as poor as weapons made 40 years ago like other ?


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Oh... Excuses... Blame 5.56 for your incompetence and ignore latest 5.56 variant which has equal penetrating and killing power of 7.62x39, go get yourself killed when your 7.62x39 fails to penetrate body armor of chinese soldier while m855A1 would go through due to more focused impact energy..


chinese claim they are immortal. do you think any our weapons can pierce their natural born armored shield?


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## yugocrosrb95

cnleio said:


> 3. Today most 12.7mm machine-gun with armour-piercing rounds can shoot through the 25mm steel armor, not alone ATGM etc ... not useful to against modern infrantry, or u just think U.S/Russia/China soldiers also using as poor as weapons made 40 years ago like other ?



You're confusing M42 with M41 since M42 has 25mm while M41 has 35mm steel armor also one way or another, US, Russia and China are using 40 years old weapons though I am not surprised at your ignorance.

M41 is bottom, though can be significantly upgraded...



Viet said:


> chinese claim they are immortal. do you think any our weapons can pierce their natural born armored shield?



Well their natural born armored shield isn't working as they keep killing themselves with grenades...


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> 1. M41's 25mm steel armor weaker than Type59's 100~120mm armor design
> 2. Today PLA doesn't have many Type59 tanks, most r ZTZ96/99/99A MBT ... few type59 saving for normal training.
> 3. Today most 12.7mm machine-gun with armour-piercing rounds can shoot through the 25mm steel armor, not alone ATGM etc ... not useful to against modern infrantry, or u just think U.S/Russia/China soldiers also using as poor as weapons made 40 years ago like other ?


have I told you recently if we are in the range of your artillery you are in ours?

it is about who scores the first hit.

if your infantry with armour-piercing gun hits our light tank, you win.
if our tank hits your infantrymen, well, you can think of yourselves.


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> if your infantry with armour-piercing gun hits our light tank, you win.
> if our tank hits your infantrymen, well, you can think of yourselves.



China doesn't have any infrantry gun capable of penetrating M41's armor.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> China doesn't have any infrantry gun capable of penetrating M41's armor.


how do you know they haven´t?


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> how do you know they haven´t?



Their largest caliber for an anti-materiel infrantry gun/weapon is mere 14 mm...


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## Nike

I am just doubting the operational rate of Vietnam M41 walker bulldog given the original manufacturer is ceased to exist. BTW, Thailand is ready to retired them and in process to replaced them. Its not means you cant modernized them like what Taiwan did, but given the cost and efforts needed plus Vietnam is not in political perdicament like Taiwan, naturally replacing them with the more capable T72B2V or so will do. Righy now many eastern european countries want to get rid their Soviet tank legacy, actually this is a good opportunity for VPA.



yugocrosrb95 said:


> Their largest caliber for an anti-materiel infrantry gun/weapon is mere 14 mm...


they have javelin type atgm, plus a lot of recoilless AT gun


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## yugocrosrb95

madokafc said:


> they have javelin type atgm, plus a lot of recoilless AT gun



We are talking about infrantry guns as that chinese claimed that a 12.7mm machinegun would penetrate M41's armor.

Chinese don't have these babies...


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## cnleio

yugocrosrb95 said:


> You're confusing M42 with M41 since M42 has 25mm while M41 has 35mm steel armor also one way or another, US, Russia and China are using 40 years old weapons though I am not surprised at your ignorance.
> 
> M41 is bottom, though can be significantly upgraded...

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## yugocrosrb95

cnleio said:


> Im 'ignorant' or 'stupid' for the TRUTH in PDF, it doesn't matter u like or dislike it.



Your "truth" isn't truth, is simply fallacy and ignorance and you want to believe I dislike it rather than face the reality that I am correcting you as you made a reply/statement that is stupid/dumb and ignorant.


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## Viet

bros, for a while, let celebrate the major news of the new year:

US President Obama welcomes Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung at Sunnylands in California on February 15, 2016.






















Special meeting with US President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry, lasting nearly 40 minutes. Talks concentrated on Vietnam economy and security situation. with the most important news: Nguyen Tan Dung has convinced Barack Obama to visit Vietnam before both Barack Obama and him go out of office this year. I read Vietnam proposes America to establish ASEAN-US center to support startups and the development of small and medium-sized enterprises in Vietnam. I believe if such ASEAN-US center comes, of course it will have the seat in Vietnam.

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## tbquestion

According to Western media, China has installed HQ-9 SAM on the Paracel Island.

Beijing's missile move in South China Sea could make US think twice about getting too close | World news | The Guardian

I wonder if Vietnam could do the same on one of its Spratly Islands.


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## tbquestion

tbquestion said:


> According to Western media, China has installed HQ-9 SAM on the Paracel Island.
> 
> Beijing's missile move in South China Sea could make US think twice about getting too close | World news | The Guardian
> 
> I wonder if Vietnam could do the same with its S-300 on one of its Spratly Islands.


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## yugocrosrb95

tbquestion said:


> According to Western media, China has installed HQ-9 SAM on the Paracel Island.
> 
> Beijing's missile move in South China Sea could make US think twice about getting too close | World news | The Guardian
> 
> I wonder if Vietnam could do the same on one of its Spratly Islands.



Since Vietnam has very close relations with Russia, I could see Russians selling top of the line S-400 with longest range.


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## Mokaman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Oh... Excuses... Blame 5.56 for your incompetence and ignore latest 5.56 variant which has equal penetrating and killing power of 7.62x39, go get yourself killed when your 7.62x39 fails to penetrate body armor of chinese soldier while m855A1 would go through due to more focused impact energy.



@yugocrosrb95 Did I insulting you with my post? Why assuming people are incompetent when you don't have any military experience? Do you know me? your variant 5.56 may penetrate deeper but 7.62 still have a much larger exit hole and can still take an arm or leg out instead of just go through it like the 5.56 variant or not. You ask questions and people reply, but when you don't like the answers you start to insulting people. You are a typical guy acting tough and vulgar hiding behind a computer screen ,.... From now on, I will stop reading and reply your posts because a lot of stuffs you write doesn't make sense and you can't communicate with people without insulting them.

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## Aqsuperman

Kh-31P anti-radiation missile with something like a harness.............


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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Kh-31P anti-radiation missile with something like a harness.............

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## Nike

Mokaman said:


> @yugocrosrb95 Did I insulting you with my post? Why assuming people are incompetent when you don't have any military experience? * Do you know me? your variant 5.56 may penetrate deeper but 7.62 still have a much larger exit hole and can still take an arm or leg out instead of just go through it like the 5.56 variant or not.* You ask questions and people reply, but when you don't like the answers you start to insulting people. You are a typical guy acting tough and vulgar hiding behind a computer screen ,.... From now on, I will stop reading and reply your posts because a lot of stuffs you write doesn't make sense and you can't communicate with people without insulting them.



it's all depends on what kind types military cartridge of 5.56 munition you used the same can be said with the 7.62 mm Soviet or NATO caliber. 

The examples
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M193: 5.56×45mm 55-grain [3.56 g] ball cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Grenade, M195 [Crimped tip with Red lacquer seal]: 5.56×45mm high-pressure grenade-launching blank.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, M196 [Red or Orange tip]: 5.56×45mm 54-grain [3.43 g] tracer cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, High Pressure Test (HPT), M197 [Crimped tip with stannic-stained or nickel-plated case]: High-pressure Testing Blank used when proofing weapons during manufacture, test, or repair. Warning: do not use as a training blank or grenade-launching blank.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Dummy, M199 [No primer, Fluted case]: 5.56×45mm inert cartridge with fluted indentations in the case. Used for loading and unloading drills during basic training.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Blank, M200 [Crimped tip with Violet lacquer seal]: 5.56×45mm training blank cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M202: 5.56×45mm 58-grain FN SSX822 cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Dummy, M232 [No primer, Black-anodized case and bullet]: 5.56×45mm inert cartridge. Used for testing rifle mechanisms.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, XM287: 5.56×45mm 68-grain ball cartridge produced by Industries Valcartier, Inc. An Improved version was also produced designated XM779.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, XM288: 5.56×45mm 68-grain tracer cartridge produced by Industries Valcartier, Inc. An Improved version was also produced designated XM780.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Grenade, M755 [Crimped tip with Yellow lacquer seal]: 5.56×45mm grenade launching blank specifically for the 64mm M234 launcher. The original white lacquer seal was discontinued due to excessive bore fouling.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, XM777: 5.56×45mm ball cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, XM778: 5.56×45mm tracer cartridge.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 [Green tip]: 5.56×45mm 62-grain FN SS109-equivalent ball cartridge with a steel penetrator tip over a lead core in a partial copper jacket (the steel tip sticks out of the front of the bullet and is uncovered by the jacket).
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855 Lead Free [Green tip]: 62-grain bullet with a steel penetrator tip over a tungsten-composite core in a partial copper jacket. Primarily used during training in countries with strict lead disposal laws.[67]
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Ball, M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round [unpainted steel penetrator tip]: 62-grain bullet w/ a 19-grain steel penetrator tip over a copper alloy core in a partial copper jacket.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, M856 [Orange tip]: 5.56×45mm 63.7-grain FN L110 tracer cartridge. Provides red visible light and lacks a steel penetrator.[67]
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, M856A1 [Red tip]: 5.56×45mm 56-grain Lead Free slug (LF) Tracer with similar ballistic performance to the M855A1 and improved trace to range consistency.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Plastic, Practice, M862 [Brass primer, Aluminum case and Blue plastic projectile]: Short Range Training Ammo (SRTA) has a smaller charge than standard ball, reducing its aimed range to 250 meters, and fires a plastic bullet. The M2 training bolt must be used in the M16 Rifle / M4 Carbine when using SRTA for the weapon to cycle properly due to its lower power. It is used during training on shooting ranges near built-up or populated areas.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Armor Piercing, M995 [Black tip]: 5.56×45mm 52-grain AP cartridge with a tungsten core.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Tracer, XM996 [Crimson tip]: So-called "Dim Tracer" with reduced effect primarily for use with night vision devices.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.64 mm, Ball, MLU-26/P (National Stock Number:1305-968-5892): Munition, Live, Unit #26 / Personnel use. Early USAF designation for a 55-grain 5.56×45mm FMJ ball cartridge produced by Remington-Union Metallic Cartridge Company (headstamp RA 63 or REM-UMC 63) in 1963. It was their designation for the commercial 55-grain Remington .223 M.C. ("Metallic-Cased", or Full Metal Jacketed) cartridge, which the Air Force initially designated "5.64 mm" rather than 5.56 mm. The order consisted of 8.5 million rounds and was procured for testing, training and unconventional warfare use with the XM16 rifle. The cartridges came packed unclipped in white 20-round commercial boxes.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Frangible, MK 255 Mod 0 [White Tip]: 5.56×45mm 62-grain Reduced Ricochet Limited Penetration (RRLP) round with copper/polymer composite core for training and operational use.
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm, Special Ball, Long Range, Mk 262 Mod 0/1: 5.56×45mm 77-grain Open-Tipped Match/Hollow-Point Boat-Tail cartridge. Mod 0 features Sierra Matchking bullet, while Mod 1 features either Nosler or Sierra bullet.
Cartridge, 5.56×45mm, semi-jacketed Frangible, MK 311 Mod 0 : Reduced Ricochet Limited Penetration (R2LP) round, 50-grain frangible bullet intended for training. Produced by Western Cartridge Company (headstamp: WCC).
Cartridge, Caliber 5.56 mm Ball, Enhanced 5.56 mm Carbine, MK318 MOD 0: 5.56×45mm 62-grain Open-Tipped Match Boat-Tail cartridge. Optimized for use with 14-inch barreled weapons like the M4A1 Carbine and MK16 SCAR and designed to penetrate light barriers like windshields or car doors with no loss of accuracy or damage.Now designated as Caliber 5.56 mm Ball, Carbine, Barrier.


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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> @yugocrosrb95 Did I insulting you with my post? Why assuming people are incompetent when you don't have any military experience? Do you know me? your variant 5.56 may penetrate deeper but 7.62 still have a much larger exit hole and can still take an arm or leg out instead of just go through it like the 5.56 variant or not. You ask questions and people reply, but when you don't like the answers you start to insulting people. You are a typical guy acting tough and vulgar hiding behind a computer screen ,.... From now on, I will stop reading and reply your posts because a lot of stuffs you write doesn't make sense and you can't communicate with people without insulting them.



Whatever improvements get done to a 5.56 ammo, can also be done to the 7.62 ammo and the difference will persist, its just a matter of physics. Size does make a difference in range and penetration power not matter what.

This guy has an attitude problem, he doesn't seem to be able to talk to people without insulting. 20 years old, probably the type of aggressive kid that bullies everybody in the neighborhood. 

@Viet etc, I suggest that everybody ignores this guy, don't talk to him, we don't need this in the thread. 
If we ignore him, he'll eventually get frustrated by not getting attention and will go away. Report him also.

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## Viet

tbquestion said:


> According to Western media, China has installed HQ-9 SAM on the Paracel Island.
> 
> Beijing's missile move in South China Sea could make US think twice about getting too close | World news | The Guardian
> 
> I wonder if Vietnam could do the same on one of its Spratly Islands.


you can safely assume we have missiles against enemy aircraft and warships on our islands.









with radar installations on along Vietnam coast monitoring all activities in the sea and fighter aircraft ready night and day to counter any potential chinese aggression.


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## Viet

Japan’s maritime force conducts joint drills with Vietnam’s navy in South China Sea base | South China Morning Post

PUBLISHED : Thursday, 18 February, 2016, 5:16pm









An MSDF team was dispatched to Danang, central Vietnam, along with two P-3C patrol aircraft for the drills with Vietnam. Photo: Kyodo

The Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force conducted joint exercises with the Vietnamese navy for three days through Thursday in the Southeast Asian country and nearby waters.

An MSDF team was dispatched to Danang, central Vietnam, along with two P-3C patrol aircraft for the drills aimed at reinforcing defence cooperation between the two countries and keeping a check on China amid territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam, one of several states involved in disputes over reefs and islands in the waters, are at odds with China over claims to the Paracel and Spratly island groups.

Just this week, China’s deployment of an advanced surface-to-air missile system on one of the Paracel Islands came to light.

Last November, Japanese Defence Minister Gen Nakatani and his Vietnamese counterpart Phung Quang Thanh agreed during talks in Hanoi that an MSDF vessel will make a port call at Cam Ranh Bay, a strategic Vietnamese naval base in the South China Sea.

They also agreed to conduct joint defence drills to train for humanitarian support and disaster relief activities with an eye on the situation in the South China Sea.

Wednesday’s map exercise at a Vietnamese navy facility in Danang was conducted based on a scenario that the P-3C planes and Vietnam’s naval vessels would rescue a civilian ship in distress.

The MSDF’s P-3C aircraft previously visited Vietnam in May last year.


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## Thao Nguyen

tbquestion said:


> Israel is currently showcasing their military hard-wares at an exhibit in Singapore.
> 
> Globes English - Israel's defense exports fall but not steeply
> 
> Some of the toys such as such "Iron Dome interceptors" for ships should invite VPA 's interest.
> 
> Since Vietnam is proficient at producing ammunition, one wonder if it could compete with the like of IMI on a global scale and export small caliber ammo such 5.56 mm.
> 
> Globes English - IMI wins Spanish ammunition deal


Personally
Iron dome : No
Barak 1 &8 for ship: yes
Spyder & python for Land : off course yes

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## jhungary

Mokaman said:


> Why VPA would change for 5.56 when they already have +millions weapons using 7.62, huge ammo stocks and production facilities? It a huge army of 450 000 here, not some small army of 10-20 000 troop. As myself a user of 5.56mm, yes it's very precise and light to carry but it still lack the punch of 7.62 in close quarter combat. I want to see a guy falling down after taking a shot of 7.62 rather than see a guy still walking after a couple 5.56. People fall in love with the firepower and destruction of 7.62. And a few extra kilos weight of 7.62 ammo is not something the infantrymen would complaint much.The replacement Galil Ace 31 and Ace 32 are all 7.62mm. VPA still use the AR15 with the 5.56 mm.



As an infantryman myself, I complaint when I put on an extra pair of socks. It may seems strange to you but in battle, a few extra kilo is what make the different, you can have 9 out of 10 times having no problem putting on an extra 3 kilo, either with a few more frags or a few more mag. But that one time you are uncomfortable with the load is the one that you will regret, and may even be killed over it.

Loading factor is a soldier's priority, I don't generally overload my soldiers, unless I am absolutely need to overload them. Having 300 rounds instead of 200 rounds also make quite a different in battle. When you put stress, adrenaline, and excitement into the equation, expending all 200 rounds is just like a skip in time....

7.62 have their advantage, while the 556 have their own, beside, it's seriously advised against using any sort of rifle in Close quarter anyway..........


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## Mokaman

jhungary said:


> As an infantryman myself, I complaint when I put on an extra pair of socks. It may seems strange to you but in battle, a few extra kilo is what make the different, you can have 9 out of 10 times having no problem putting on an extra 3 kilo, either with a few more frags or a few more mag. But that one time you are uncomfortable with the load is the one that you will regret, and may even be killed over it.
> 
> Loading factor is a soldier's priority, I don't generally overload my soldiers, unless I am absolutely need to overload them. Having 300 rounds instead of 200 rounds also make quite a different in battle. When you put stress, adrenaline, and excitement into the equation, expending all 200 rounds is just like a skip in time....
> 
> 7.62 have their advantage, while the 556 have their own, beside, it's seriously advised against using any sort of rifle in Close quarter anyway..........



Of course weight is important but it also depend on the length of your mission( long or short) and the purpose of your mission (recon, patrol, ambush, attack...). If your mission is just to engage and firefight, then you just pack for that purpose. That's why I said that extra kilos of ammo won't mind anybody. And if that extra pair of socks help you in the winter warfare then take it, anything else that is not necessary can be spare for extra ammo. My definition of close quarter combat is everything that is close combat firefight, urban warfare (you get my point...)... 7.62 is doing great in those chaotic scenarios. The SCAR MK 17 CQC (CLOSE QUARTER COMBAT) 7.62 X 51 mm is doing great and is battle proven in close quarter combat.







Carlosa said:


> Whatever improvements get done to a 5.56 ammo, can also be done to the 7.62 ammo and the difference will persist, its just a matter of physics. Size does make a difference in range and penetration power not matter what.
> 
> This guy has an attitude problem, he doesn't seem to be able to talk to people without insulting. 20 years old, probably the type of aggressive kid that bullies everybody in the neighborhood.
> 
> @Viet etc, I suggest that everybody ignores this guy, don't talk to him, we don't need this in the thread.
> If we ignore him, he'll eventually get frustrated by not getting attention and will go away. Report him also.


The dilemna of 5.56 versus 7.62 started since the Viet Nam war, when the Americans change their M14 for the M16 and accounts of firefights with NVA armed with AKs. Both ammo are good but they are good for different reasons. M14 is still being use today in the US army


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## jhungary

Mokaman said:


> Of course weight is important but it also depend on the length of your mission( long or short) and the purpose of your mission (recon, patrol, ambush, attack...). If your mission is just to engage and firefight, then you just pack for that purpose. That's why I said that extra kilos of ammo won't mind anybody. And if that extra pair of socks help you in the winter warfare then take it, anything else that is not necessary can be spare for extra ammo. My definition of close quarter combat is everything that is close combat firefight, urban warfare (you get my point...)... 7.62 is doing great in those chaotic scenarios. The SCAR MK 17 CQC (CLOSE QUARTER COMBAT) 7.62 X 51 mm is doing great and is battle proven in close quarter combat.
> View attachment 294463



It's actually not that.

It may seems strange to you, but in today's war, you don't actually go on a mission and expect firefights. War and battle today is a lot more complicated than say Vietnam war era. Where you have well define mission such as Search and Destroy, Night Ambushes, Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol or Just Combat Sweep. Today warfare is what you basically expect to carry all these mission at once, and have your team readied for any sort of deployment. You have to equally prepared to perform an Air Assault or a Ground Patrol because battlefield changes quickly, and they may need you to do one thing this second, another thing next. It happens A LOT in the military.

Problem with mission specific load-out is basically an out of date concept. You cannot think "Yeah, I am expecting a firefight, so I max out on ammo and you don't bring food, water, medical supplies." The problem is actually not weight (Although they do present a problem) but what you can carry with you in the battlefield. You can only carry a rug sack as well a load bearing vest that pretty much all you can get in between them. You need your NVG, your repel rope, your flex ties, your Medikit as much as you need ammo. And in the end, it's that few kilogram here and there would actually make the ultimate different. It's about the time when you get into an unexpected situation. I remember once I have to choose between a notepad and pen and a few grenade (That was 2003, there are no smartphone yet), and I choose the latter, ended up remembering all important detail on my patrol with my own memory during debriefing.

It's quite easy for you to say here, and you may not actually understand me. But this is quite the universal truth when you deal with combat today. You may think what's a few kilogram can do? I mean think about this, if you are in a desert, 115 degree heats. The 2 or 3 kilograms translate to more water intake, meaning you have to bring more water, and thus increase your load once again. Which translate to decrease in combat performance.

You may say this, what's the point when we are gonna be all in a Humvee anyway......But the sad fact is, you cannot spend your whole war in a Humvee. I tried, that's not working like that.

About SCAR 17, the CQC version is not developed for CQC specifically, but rather you can use it in a CQC environment as well. It's sort of a happy medium.

Problem with CQC, which mean you have to have a little bit of everything, unlike ranged and open war such as jungle warfare, desert warfare or artic warfare. You need to have the little bit of all of them in a CQC situation.

762 are good round for penetration, maximum damage power, 5.56 is more accurate and give you more sustainability. While 9mm weapon usually have a shorter barrel which give you manoeuvrability as well as close grouping. In a perfect world, you would want a Shotgun to blast the door, a MP5 to turn the corner, a 5.56 for marksman type clear line shot. and 7.62 for damage. But in reality, you can't bring a M3, MP-5, HK416/M4 and a SCAR 17 all of them to combat. That's too heavy. So you would need to have a happy medium, for that, long story short, SCAR17 would be the pick of the day. 



> The dilemna of 5.56 versus 7.62 started since the Viet Nam war, when the Americans change their M14 for the M16 and accounts of firefights with NVA armed with AKs. Both ammo are good but they are good for different reasons. M14 is still being use today in the US army



To be fair, the competition between M16 and M14 does not quite actually stemmed from the physical properties of the round, rather, it was created because the physical properties of M14 and M16 rifle themselves.

Many people unjustly compare M14 to M16, in fact, doing so would be like comparing BAR to M1 Garand. The Army was basically wrong on being too greedy to have a BAR like automatic rifle on every infantryman hand to begin with. It basically spraying bullet all over the place. M14 was not intended to be used the same way M16 does (Which is for refined aimed and accurate shot). If I have to compare to today weapon, I would say M14 would more like a M249 Minimi today. Not quite the 240Bravo (or M60 back in the days) but not too quite well defined as M4 (or XM16E1 back in the days)

M14 itself and the round were not inferior, just the army stuffed up and basically killed the weapon. It would basically the same as in WW2. We have Garand as standard infantry Rifle, BAR as squad automatic rifle, and M1919 as LMG. During Vietnam, we have M16 as standard infantry rifle, M14 as Squad Automatic Rifle, and M60 as LMG. Today, we have M4 as standard infantry rifle, Minimi as Squad Automatic Rifle, and M240B as LMG.


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## Mokaman

jhungary said:


> It's actually not that.
> 
> It may seems strange to you, but in today's war, you don't actually go on a mission and expect firefights. War and battle today is a lot more complicated than say Vietnam war era. Where you have well define mission such as Search and Destroy, Night Ambushes, Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol or Just Combat Sweep. Today warfare is what you basically expect to carry all these mission at once, and have your team readied for any sort of deployment. You have to equally prepared to perform an Air Assault or a Ground Patrol because battlefield changes quickly, and they may need you to do one thing this second, another thing next. It happens A LOT in the military.
> 
> Problem with mission specific load-out is basically an out of date concept. You cannot think "Yeah, I am expecting a firefight, so I max out on ammo and you don't bring food, water, medical supplies." The problem is actually not weight (Although they do present a problem) but what you can carry with you in the battlefield. You can only carry a rug sack as well a load bearing vest that pretty much all you can get in between them. You need your NVG, your repel rope, your flex ties, your Medikit as much as you need ammo. And in the end, it's that few kilogram here and there would actually make the ultimate different. It's about the time when you get into an unexpected situation. I remember once I have to choose between a notepad and pen and a few grenade (That was 2003, there are no smartphone yet), and I choose the latter, ended up remembering all important detail on my patrol with my own memory during debriefing.
> 
> It's quite easy for you to say here, and you may not actually understand me. But this is quite the universal truth when you deal with combat today. You may think what's a few kilogram can do? I mean think about this, if you are in a desert, 115 degree heats. The 2 or 3 kilograms translate to more water intake, meaning you have to bring more water, and thus increase your load once again. Which translate to decrease in combat performance.
> 
> You may say this, what's the point when we are gonna be all in a Humvee anyway......But the sad fact is, you cannot spend your whole war in a Humvee. I tried, that's not working like that.
> 
> About SCAR 17, the CQC version is not developed for CQC specifically, but rather you can use it in a CQC environment as well. It's sort of a happy medium.
> 
> Problem with CQC, which mean you have to have a little bit of everything, unlike ranged and open war such as jungle warfare, desert warfare or artic warfare. You need to have the little bit of all of them in a CQC situation.
> 
> 762 are good round for penetration, maximum damage power, 5.56 is more accurate and give you more sustainability. While 9mm weapon usually have a shorter barrel which give you manoeuvrability as well as close grouping. In a perfect world, you would want a Shotgun to blast the door, a MP5 to turn the corner, a 5.56 for marksman type clear line shot. and 7.62 for damage. But in reality, you can't bring a M3, MP-5, HK416/M4 and a SCAR 17 all of them to combat. That's too heavy. So you would need to have a happy medium, for that, long story short, SCAR17 would be the pick of the day.
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, the competition between M16 and M14 does not quite actually stemmed from the physical properties of the round, rather, it was created because the physical properties of M14 and M16 rifle themselves.
> 
> Many people unjustly compare M14 to M16, in fact, doing so would be like comparing BAR to M1 Garand. The Army was basically wrong on being too greedy to have a BAR like automatic rifle on every infantryman hand to begin with. It basically spraying bullet all over the place. M14 was not intended to be used the same way M16 does (Which is for refined aimed and accurate shot). If I have to compare to today weapon, I would say M14 would more like a M249 Minimi today. Not quite the 240Bravo (or M60 back in the days) but not too quite well defined as M4 (or XM16E1 back in the days)
> 
> M14 itself and the round were not inferior, just the army stuffed up and basically killed the weapon. It would basically the same as in WW2. We have Garand as standard infantry Rifle, BAR as squad automatic rifle, and M1919 as LMG. During Vietnam, we have M16 as standard infantry rifle, M14 as Squad Automatic Rifle, and M60 as LMG. Today, we have M4 as standard infantry rifle, Minimi as Squad Automatic Rifle, and M240B as LMG.



It true the today battlefields and type of wars have changed but the tactics and preparations for combat remain the same. All armies in the world have their way to operate and use the resources they have, and some armies are better than others but there is no universal standard for preparation and operations . What you think is good for you may be not so good for others and what you have may not apply for others. Wealthy armies always have the dilemma to cut down stuffs to bring on missions but it's not the case for less equipped armies. I appreciate you give the insight of your side on preparation for operation. But for myself and the procedures & briefing, it all come down to how long the mission...Are We go with heavy backpack or just webbing & pouches and what the purposes.

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## Viet

bros, how about stop for a second speculating what bullet cabibre creates a bigger hole on human body...
and greet the arrival of the fleet. the race around the world.

arrival in the city of da-nang.

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## yugocrosrb95

Mokaman said:


> @yugocrosrb95 Did I insulting you with my post?



Yes with your ignorance and bias.



> Why assuming people are incompetent when you don't have any military experience?



I can operate a T-54/T-55 and T-72/M-84's due to manuals for those tanks, I only lack hands on experience.



> Do you know me?



As you present yourself on this forum, yes.



> your variant 5.56 may penetrate deeper but 7.62 still have a much larger exit hole and can still take an arm or leg out instead of just go through it like the 5.56 variant or not.



7.62x39 is bigger and creates a bigger hole, but it goes through body like hot knife through butter as it retains most of its kinetic energy rather than transfering it to the target while compared to 5.56x45 which transfers nearly all kinetic energy when going through body which results in higher internal damage with higher chance of critical damage to organs..











As you can see in these two videos, 5.56x45 M855A1 penetrates a Level 3+ body armor at full barrel lenght of M16 while 7.62x39 doesn't penetrate inferior Level 3 body armor at full barrel lenght of AK-47/AKM.



> You ask questions and people reply, but when you don't like the answers you start to insulting people.



I hate/don't like answers filled with excuses and ignorance.



> You are a typical guy acting tough and vulgar hiding behind a computer screen ,....



You're delusional about me.


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## Viet

Yugo, I suggest you stay on topic and avoid spewing unhealthy words whenever possible.

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## Barmaley

Today two Su-30MK2 were delivered to Vietnam. The numbers 88520 and 88521. 
That's means, the Vietnamese air force operating 36 Su-30MK2 fighter jets already.

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## tbquestion

Barmaley said:


> Today two Su-30MK2 were delivered to Vietnam. The numbers 88520 and 88521.
> That's means, the Vietnamese air force operating 36 Su-30MK2 fighter jets already.


Vietnam got to mixed it up with European planes if they want to deter their big neighbor. Some nations own a mix of both just like Indonesia and Malaysia. This is probably India's strategy in their latest French fighters purchase. 
How can you deter an enemy that knows all the pro and con of your weapon.



Barmaley said:


> Today two Su-30MK2 were delivered to Vietnam. The numbers 88520 and 88521.
> That's means, the Vietnamese air force operating 36 Su-30MK2 fighter jets already.


Here's an interesting article that said that the Su-35 is not that much better than the future Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA:
Singapore Airshow 2016: Analysis - PAK-FA's Asian export hopes stymied by lack of 'fifth-generation' qualities | IHS Jane's 360

It makes you wonder why a certain superpower buys 24 Su-35.


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## Carlosa

tbquestion said:


> Here's an interesting article that said that the Su-35 is not that much better than the future Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA:
> Singapore Airshow 2016: Analysis - PAK-FA's Asian export hopes stymied by lack of 'fifth-generation' qualities | IHS Jane's 360
> 
> It makes you wonder why a certain superpower buys 24 Su-35.



That's not quite the reality of the situation. First of all, the comments in the article come from Lockheed Martin which makes the rival of the T-50 PAK-FA and they have a vested interest in putting down the T-50 PAK-FA.

What they are doing is using selective information without giving the full picture.

Yes, its true that the present radar and engine of the T-50 PAK-FA are not quite up there although the engine allows the T-50 PAK-FA to supercruise at a decent speed and that is one of the criteria elements of a 5th generation fighter, but the actual reality of the situation is that the radar and engine currently being used are just beefed up versions of the older engines and radars because the development work of the engine and radar that will be standard in the T-50 PAK-FA is not finished yet, it will take 1 or 2 more years.

The T-50 PAK-FA will be a great fighter and will be able to take on anything, just need to let the Russians finish the work.

Also, the Russian philosophy for a 5th generation fighter is not the same as to what the Americans follow, the Americans put a lot more emphasis on stealth while the Russians are not willing to sacrifice manoeuvrability for stealth as the Americans have done on the F-35.

China bought the SU-35 mainly to copy the technology of the engines.

@Barmaley @vostok Do you have anything to add to what I wrote?


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> That's not quite the reality of the situation. First of all, the comments in the article come from Lockheed Martin which makes the rival of the T-50 PAK-FA and they have a vested interest in putting down the T-50 PAK-FA.
> 
> What they are doing is using selective information without giving the full picture.
> 
> Yes, its true that the present radar and engine of the T-50 PAK-FA are not quite up there although the engine allows the T-50 PAK-FA to supercruise at a decent speed and that is one of the criteria elements of a 5th generation fighter, but the actual reality of the situation is that the radar and engine currently being used are just beefed up versions of the older engines and radars because the development work of the engine and radar that will be standard in the T-50 PAK-FA is not finished yet, it will take 1 or 2 more years.
> 
> The T-50 PAK-FA will be a great fighter and will be able to take on anything, just need to let the Russians finish the work.
> 
> Also, the Russian philosophy for a 5th generation fighter is not the same as to what the Americans follow, the Americans put a lot more emphasis on stealth while the Russians are not willing to sacrifice manoeuvrability for stealth as the Americans have done on the F-35.
> 
> China bought the SU-35 mainly to copy the technology of the engines.
> 
> @Barmaley @vostok Do you have anything to add to what I wrote?




Quick facts i get during my visit in Singapore Air Show

1. T-50 development progress is in limbo because Russian lacks of resources (especially funds) because of the current economic crisis, unless they had agreeing something with the Indian but the spokesperson i met is only wish the best about the negotiation, so i will do the same here.
2. The Russian will press hardy the Su-35 upgrading project, as it was their most potent Superiority Fighter currently in production line right now. That's why our Defense Minister clearly said, he only wants to bought a limited number of the current version of Su-35 because the Russian had said the new advanced Su-35 versions is will be online soon in near future.
3. The Russian actually is trying to sell Su-35 to Vietnam, but Vietnam sides right now is still prioritizing other acquisitions (S-400 and Yak-130 presumably from what i heard).
4. T-50 is actually Russian answer toward F-22 Raptor, not F-35. F-35 is clearly a different beast compared to the likes of T-50 and Raptor, as they were actually the American answer toward future combat on how to destroying enemies Air Forces before they can flight in first place. Interesting notes is F-22 is such a beauty and elegant, and i can never got tired to admit if the Raptor clearly three steps more advance than what US competitor can give right now. 

just a bonus

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## Viet

Have we posted this news?

Lauching two brand new ships for Australia Navy: MV Besant completed after 26 months, MV Stoker was built in 12 months by DAMEN Shipyards in Vietnam. 2,093 tons, 83 m length. Special task of the vessels: rescue operation for submarines in distress.
































Another contract for Vietnam Shipyard: Helicopter Training Ship for Australia Navy, MATV 2300 (based on Damen OPV 2400), will be built by Damen Song Cam Shipyard. 2,400 tons.








a Ocean Research for Vietnam Navy under construction in shipyard X51

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Quick facts i get during my visit in Singapore Air Show
> 
> 1. T-50 development progress is in limbo because Russian lacks of resources (especially funds) because of the current economic crisis, unless they had agreeing something with the Indian but the spokesperson i met is only wish the best about the negotiation, so i will do the same here.
> 2. The Russian will press hardy the Su-35 upgrading project, as it was their most potent Superiority Fighter currently in production line right now. That's why our Defense Minister clearly said, he only wants to bought a limited number of the current version of Su-35 because the Russian had said the new advanced Su-35 versions is will be online soon in near future.
> 3. The Russian actually is trying to sell Su-35 to Vietnam, but Vietnam sides right now is still prioritizing other acquisitions (S-400 and Yak-130 presumably from what i heard).
> 4. T-50 is actually Russian answer toward F-22 Raptor, not F-35. F-35 is clearly a different beast compared to the likes of T-50 and Raptor, as they were actually the American answer toward future combat on how to destroying enemies Air Forces before they can flight in first place. Interesting notes is F-22 is such a beauty and elegant, and i can never got tired to admit if the Raptor clearly three steps more advance than what US competitor can give right now.
> 
> just a bonus
> 
> View attachment 294745



Good info, thank you.

Yes, I know the F-35 is a totally different beast than the F-22, but the reason why I said that the F-35 is Lockheed Martin's competitor of the T-50 PAK-FA is because the F-22 is not for export, so the actual competition in the export market for 5th generation fighters will be between the T-50 PAK-FA and the F-35.

Interesting to hear about the SU-35 for Vietnam. I did get information from the people of the Russian forum that Russia expects a Vietnamese order for the SU-35 in 2018-19. The information comes from component suppliers of the SU-35, so its supposed to be reliable, but as usual with Vietnamese purchases, nothing is for sure until you see it.

An upgraded SU-35 would really be something to see, the SU-35 is a hell of a plane already. I can see now why Indonesia reduced the order from 16 to 10.

Have to see what happens with India and the T-50 PAK-FA, but I think India will go for it in the end since they really don't have any realistic alternative to it and they are really short of aircraft. I think at the most, they'll wait until the development is finished. They already got substantial discounts. 

Yes, the F-22 is a beauty.

Please report any other interesting gossip that you get.

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## Viet

not a new picture, a modernized T54-M3 in test firing. I wonder when we can hear some news coming out about the modernization of Vietnam Tank Divisions. How many tanks has the PLA? some 9,000 pieces as I read. Crazy.








the backbone of Vietnam air defence: S-75 surface to air missile.














sleepless. night training for infantrymen


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Good info, thank you.
> 
> Yes, I know the F-35 is a totally different beast than the F-22, but the reason why I said that the F-35 is Lockheed Martin's competitor of the T-50 PAK-FA is because the F-22 is not for export, so the actual competition in the export market for 5th generation fighters will be between the T-50 PAK-FA and the F-35.
> 
> Interesting to hear about the SU-35 for Vietnam. I did get information from the people of the Russian forum that Russia expects a Vietnamese order for the SU-35 in 2018-19. The information comes from component suppliers of the SU-35, so its supposed to be reliable, but as usual with Vietnamese purchases, nothing is for sure until you see it.
> 
> An upgraded SU-35 would really be something to see, the SU-35 is a hell of a plane already. I can see now why Indonesia reduced the order from 16 to 10.
> 
> Have to see what happens with India and the T-50 PAK-FA, but I think India will go for it in the end since they really don't have any realistic alternative to it and they are really short of aircraft. I think at the most, they'll wait until the development is finished. They already got substantial discounts.
> 
> Yes, the F-22 is a beauty.
> 
> Please report any other interesting gossip that you get.



CN-235 MPA is currently being offered to Vietnam vigorously by our sides since the P3 Vietnam supposedly get from US is still doesn't get a clear sight in near future. Defense industrial collaboration and cooperation is being offered by Indonesian government and Vietnam side is agreed, still mapping what we can offered to Vietnam and vice versa though. Indonesia is currently working on smart bomb (JDAM like devices as we get assistance from several US company like Honeywell and other) to be used on our Flanker and F-16 though, and that's will be a nice addition to Vietnam arsenal in near future i think. They can reduced the necessities to use high end missile system like Kh missile series.

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## Gen Padmanabhan

tbquestion said:


> According to Western media, China has installed HQ-9 SAM on the Paracel Island.
> 
> Beijing's missile move in South China Sea could make US think twice about getting too close | World news | The Guardian
> 
> I wonder if Vietnam could do the same on one of its Spratly Islands.



Ofcourse they can do, all they need to contact Israel, and ask ELM 2084 & Barak 2 or David's Sling.

Both use same MMR ELM 2084.


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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> That's not quite the reality of the situation. First of all, the comments in the article come from Lockheed Martin which makes the rival of the T-50 PAK-FA and they have a vested interest in putting down the T-50 PAK-FA.
> 
> What they are doing is using selective information without giving the full picture.
> 
> Yes, its true that the present radar and engine of the T-50 PAK-FA are not quite up there although the engine allows the T-50 PAK-FA to supercruise at a decent speed and that is one of the criteria elements of a 5th generation fighter, but the actual reality of the situation is that the radar and engine currently being used are just beefed up versions of the older engines and radars because the development work of the engine and radar that will be standard in the T-50 PAK-FA is not finished yet, it will take 1 or 2 more years.
> 
> The T-50 PAK-FA will be a great fighter and will be able to take on anything, just need to let the Russians finish the work.
> 
> Also, the Russian philosophy for a 5th generation fighter is not the same as to what the Americans follow, the Americans put a lot more emphasis on stealth while the Russians are not willing to sacrifice manoeuvrability for stealth as the Americans have done on the F-35.
> 
> China bought the SU-35 mainly to copy the technology of the engines.
> 
> @Barmaley @vostok Do you have anything to add to what I wrote?



It's will be offtop since its a Vietnamese defence thread, but i want to notice that in this article they don't even know that PAK-FA using *Belka AESA radar* and the AL-41F1(product 117) engine different from the Su-35 AL-41F1S(product 117*C*). The Su-35 engine has less trust at 500kg and different electromechanical control system.

Radar:
Byelka (radar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the quality of this article is kinda low, but you are right when you notice that LM fear of Sukhoi competition in Asian Market, because they know that there is low chances they will found a buyer for the F-35 there. Countries who currently buying F-35 are NATO and american puppets and has no others choose. 



I could explain, if you want why the PAK-FA is already better than any existing 5th generation aircraft and why he's will become even more advancer in near future.

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## Gen Padmanabhan

Viet said:


> *Vietnam´s National Satellite Center
> *
> ...just coming in the news: Vu Anh Tuan, Deputy Director of the National Satellite Center, announces two new satellites, worth US$ 600 million, will be launched into space in 2019. no further details given, just satellites will help boost agricultural production and minimize natural disaster impact. I assume they are earth observation satellites, with high resolution camera and radars on-board, not only good for civil but also for military purposes. one of them can be Japan X-band satellite, a variant of ASNARO, with optical sensors capable to make/recognise images/objects of resolution of 0.5 m across.
> 
> 
> Japan’s NEC Looks To Expand Commercial Market Footprint - SpaceNews.com



I dont know there are funds problem or other thing, if Vietnam seriously want day & night imaging capabilities at LEO, then again they all need to ask from Israel to build a variant of TecSar for them. 

For MEO, they all need to ask India to build variant of RISAT-1 or CartoSat.

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## Viet

tbquestion said:


> Vietnam got to mixed it up with European planes if they want to deter their big neighbor. Some nations own a mix of both just like Indonesia and Malaysia. This is probably India's strategy in their latest French fighters purchase.
> How can you deter an enemy that knows all the pro and con of your weapon.
> 
> 
> Here's an interesting article that said that the Su-35 is not that much better than the future Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA:
> Singapore Airshow 2016: Analysis - PAK-FA's Asian export hopes stymied by lack of 'fifth-generation' qualities | IHS Jane's 360
> 
> It makes you wonder why a certain superpower buys 24 Su-35.


Your enemy having similar or same weapons is not the decisive factor. Nor winning a war is more than just counting numbers. Number of men, number of weapons. Sure, as you may have already heard about it: also, Vietnam seeks assistance in the West to counter chinese aggression. And the key to open the door lies in Washington. 

I think the US government agrees to end the arms embargo, but there is still strong resistance in the Congress. But sooner or later the people in America will realize it is only Vietnam that is capable to stop chinese expansion in the region, maintaining peace and stability in the SC Sea.

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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 
I am wondering what modifications/upgrades did Vietnam/Russia did for T-54/T-55's?

What T-54/T-55M3's have over original's?


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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> It's will be offtop since its a Vietnamese defence thread, but i want to notice that in this article they don't even know that PAK-FA using *Belka AESA radar* and the AL-41F1(product 117) engine different from the Su-35 AL-41F1S(product 117*C*). The Su-35 engine has less trust at 500kg and different electromechanical control system.
> 
> Radar:
> Byelka (radar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> So the quality of this article is kinda low, but you are right when you notice that LM fear of Sukhoi competition in Asian Market, because they know that there is low chances they will found a buyer for the F-35 there. Countries who currently buying F-35 are NATO and american puppets and has no others choose.
> 
> 
> 
> I could explain, if you want why the PAK-FA is already better than any existing 5th generation aircraft and why he's will become even more advancer in near future.



Yes, please explain the differences in more detail.
That subject is not off topic since Vietnam plans to get the T-50 in the 2020s anyway. 
The Indonesian members also regularly read this thread and Indonesia is buying the SU-35 so its all related.



Gen Padmanabhan said:


> Ofcourse they can do, all they need to contact Israel, and ask ELM 2084 & Barak 2 or David's Sling.
> 
> Both use same MMR ELM 2084.



I think you meant Barak 8. David's Sling looks mighty good, but its still in development.


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## Gen Padmanabhan

Carlosa said:


> I think you meant Barak 8. David's Sling looks mighty good, but its still in development.


Barak-2 is actually the land version of Barak-8, but this is also in R&D. IAF expected to deploy first battery by 2018, so we can expect first test of this missile by this year.

Also the range of Barak-2 is much higher than Barak-8 ( arnd 130-150 KM) , and also known as LR-SAM. Barak-2 is specifically designed to intercept Aircrafts & Cruise Missiles, while David's Sling specifically designed to intercept SRBM.

So, I think Vietnam should think of deploying this as force mix as it going to use same Fire Control Radar & C&C System.

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> I am wondering what modifications/upgrades did Vietnam/Russia did for T-54/T-55's?
> 
> What *T-54/T-55M3's *have over original's?


here some details. the plan sees domestic companies working together with Israel, Germany and Ukraine on the modernization, upgrading the actual VPA´s T54/T55 850 tanks. as for Russia, the plan sees importing some 1,000 pieces of T72/T90 from Russia and former Washauer Pact, and we upgrade them in Vietnam. Alltogether, including former US tanks, we would have 2,000 tanks, and could form several VPA tank armies. the backbone of Vietnam Ground Force.

but the whole project is delayed by many reasons.



Vietnamese armed forces modernize its fleet of main battle tanks T-55 to standard T 54/55M3 2503124 | weapons defence industry military technology UK | analyse focus army defence military industry army


- A new main armament with the Israeli 105mm M68/L7 which can fire modern ammunition as APDS, APER-T (Anti-personnel tracer), APFSDS, HE, HEAT, Smoke.

- A 60mm mortar mounted on the top of the turret as the Israeli main battle tank Merkava and magach which can be used against infantry in fortification, trenches or buildings.

- A meteo Sensors mast which provides meteorological information’s as direction and speed wind, temperature and atmospheric pressure to increase accuracy coupled with the firing computer system. This equipment could be the MAWS6056B sensor mast designed and manufactured the Swiss Company IRDAM, who would not confirm or deny this information.

- T-54/T-55M3 will be equipped with a new Israeli explosive reactive armour to increase the protection of the vehicle against anti-tank rockets and missiles. Th upper part of the suspension of each side is protected by armour plates. Smoke grenade launchers are mounted to each side of the turret to create an automatic smoke cloud against laser beam or aim.

- A new high power 1,000 hp. engine developed and manufacture in Germany, gearbox and transmission from Ukraine. With this new power pack the mobility of the tank will be increased significantly.

*
105mm main cannon*


















*explosive reactive armour*







*60mm mortar mounted on the top of the turret*









T55-M3 prototype Test firing








T54-M3 prototype

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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

That is a very extensive upgrade... Surprised about Ukraine being involved due to Russia.

Anyway, T54/T55M3's pack can go against a modern 3rd gen MBT?

I have doubts that a 105mm cannon has a good chance of killing a 3rd gen MBT, for example M-84's in Croatian/Slovenian/Serbian/Kuwait's army can survive a 105mm depleted uranium hitting front of the turret.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> CN-235 MPA is currently being offered to Vietnam vigorously by our sides since the P3 Vietnam supposedly get from US is still doesn't get a clear sight in near future. Defense industrial collaboration and cooperation is being offered by Indonesian government and Vietnam side is agreed, still mapping what we can offered to Vietnam and vice versa though. Indonesia is currently working on smart bomb (JDAM like devices as we get assistance from several US company like Honeywell and other) to be used on our Flanker and F-16 though, and that's will be a nice addition to Vietnam arsenal in near future i think. They can reduced the necessities to use high end missile system like Kh missile series.


You say VN agrees on defense industrial cooperation. what expectations does Indonesia have to get from Vietnam? And what you want to offer in return? Cooperation on developing smart bomb is too little, isn't it?


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## Nike

Viet said:


> You say VN agrees on defense industrial cooperation. what expectations does Indonesia have to get from Vietnam? And what you want to offer in return? Cooperation on developing smart bomb is too little, isn't it?



that's why i am said, the both sides is currently mapping whatever they had to offer. The Indonesian is currently had many active defense related development building programme. To name a few is right now,

1. We are in building of N-219 MPA variants, besides we already had CN-235 MPA/ASW and CN 212 400 MPA 
2. We are building our kind of Medium Tank and IFV, in cooperation with Turkey FNSS
3. We had several type of IFV, APC, light recce and Fire Support Vehicle
4. We had light artillery prototype in works 105 mm caliber
5. GPS guided Rocket Artillery Missile System in works
6. National Light Frigate and AAW Destroyer programme
7. LPD programme
8. Tracked cargo Amphibious vehicle
9. Short Underwater Torpedo to be used in our Submarines, MPA Aircraft/Helicopter and Frigates
10. guided precision munition, (guided version of hydra 70 rocket)
11. Indonesian Future Soldier programme (FELIN licensed)
12. National Submarine programme
13. RCWS development programme
14. National Air Defense System, (in cooperation with SAAB to develop our version of BAMSE and GBAD)
15. Small arms and any kind of squad support weapons, ranging from Manpads until RPG like system weapons.

but we know our limitation in funding and research efforts, so we currently engaging many ASEAN member to cooperate and collaborate in defense research and productions efforts. The Malaysian, Vietnam, Thailand and Singapore had positive response and currently we are in mapping on what we can do to collaborate further in this field.

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## Carlosa

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> Barak-2 is actually the land version of Barak-8, but this is also in R&D. IAF expected to deploy first battery by 2018, so we can expect first test of this missile by this year.
> 
> Also the range of Barak-2 is much higher than Barak-8 ( arnd 130-150 KM) , and also known as LR-SAM. Barak-2 is specifically designed to intercept Aircrafts & Cruise Missiles, while David's Sling specifically designed to intercept SRBM.
> 
> So, I think Vietnam should think of deploying this as force mix as it going to use same Fire Control Radar & C&C System.



Ah ok, what you call Barak-2 I know it as Barak 8 ER (extended range), I think that's the Israeli designation.
Myself, I'm a big fan of Barak 8 and I think David's Sling will be very good and I'd like to see it deployed in Vietnam.

Vietnam is buying the land version of Aster 30 and myself, I would prefer to see Barak 8 instead, but it might be too late. At least Vietnam bought Spyder, but it would be a great combo with Barak 8. We still have hope for David's Sling. Spyder, Barak 8 ER and David's Sling, I would call that the Israeli S-400.



madokafc said:


> that's why i am said, the both sides is currently mapping whatever they had to offer. The Indonesian is currently had many active defense related development building programme. To name a few is right now,
> 
> 1. We are in building of N-219 MPA variants, besides we already had CN-235 MPA/ASW and CN 212 400 MPA
> 2. We are building our kind of Medium Tank and IFV, in cooperation with Turkey FNSS
> 3. We had several type of IFV, APC, light recce and Fire Support Vehicle
> 4. We had light artillery prototype in works 105 mm caliber
> 5. GPS guided Rocket Artillery Missile System in works
> 6. National Light Frigate and AAW Destroyer programme
> 7. LPD programme
> 8. Tracked cargo Amphibious vehicle
> 9. Short Underwater Torpedo to be used in our Submarines, MPA Aircraft/Helicopter and Frigates
> 10. guided precision munition, (guided version of hydra 70 rocket)
> 11. Indonesian Future Soldier programme (FELIN licensed)
> 12. National Submarine programme
> 13. RCWS development programme
> 14. National Air Defense System, (in cooperation with SAAB to develop our version of BAMSE and GBAD)
> 15. Small arms and any kind of squad support weapons, ranging from Manpads until RPG like system weapons.
> 
> but we know our limitation in funding and research efforts, so we currently engaging many ASEAN member to cooperate and collaborate in defense research and productions efforts. The Malaysian, Vietnam, Thailand and Singapore had positive response and currently we are in mapping on what we can do to collaborate further in this field.



I've heard that Vietnam is interested in the Indonesian LPD program, is that correct?


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Ah ok, what you call Barak-2 I know it as Barak 8 ER (extended range), I think that's the Israeli designation.
> Myself, I'm a big fan of Barak 8 and I think David's Sling will be very good and I'd like to see it deployed in Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam is buying the land version of Aster 30 and myself, I would prefer to see Barak 8 instead, but it might be too late. At least Vietnam bought Spyder, but it would be a great combo with Barak 8. We still have hope for David's Sling. Spyder, Barak 8 ER and David's Sling, I would call that the Israeli S-400.
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard that Vietnam is interested in the Indonesian LPD program, is that correct?



i thought it was Myanmar and Bangladesh. Vietnam is interested in our MPA aircraft. But the possibility is wide open.

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> that's why i am said, the both sides is currently mapping whatever they had to offer. The Indonesian is currently had many active defense related development building programme. To name a few is right now,
> 
> 1. We are in building of N-219 MPA variants, besides we already had CN-235 MPA/ASW and CN 212 400 MPA
> 2. We are building our kind of Medium Tank and IFV, in cooperation with Turkey FNSS
> 3. We had several type of IFV, APC, light recce and Fire Support Vehicle
> 4. We had light artillery prototype in works 105 mm caliber
> 5. GPS guided Rocket Artillery Missile System in works
> 6. National Light Frigate and AAW Destroyer programme
> 7. LPD programme
> 8. Tracked cargo Amphibious vehicle
> 9. Short Underwater Torpedo to be used in our Submarines, MPA Aircraft/Helicopter and Frigates
> 10. guided precision munition, (guided version of hydra 70 rocket)
> 11. Indonesian Future Soldier programme (FELIN licensed)
> 12. National Submarine programme
> 13. RCWS development programme
> 14. National Air Defense System, (in cooperation with SAAB to develop our version of BAMSE and GBAD)
> 15. Small arms and any kind of squad support weapons, ranging from Manpads until RPG like system weapons.
> 
> but we know our limitation in funding and research efforts, so we currently engaging many ASEAN member to cooperate and collaborate in defense research and productions efforts. The Malaysian, Vietnam, Thailand and Singapore had positive response and currently we are in mapping on what we can do to collaborate further in this field.


wow not too bad. I would be interested in cooperating in aircraft and naval industry.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> wow not too bad. I would be interested in cooperating in aircraft and naval industry.



With current situation right now Government is looking for other alternative, RBS-15 or anything else like Exocet block 3 missile with local production option is in talk right now.

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## Viet

some pictures


Heckler & Koch sniper rifle, used by the Police









Galil sniper rifle, used by the Army

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## Viet

US origin M18 assault rifle with silencer, modified and parts reproduced in Vietnam

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## Dzul

madokafc said:


> With current situation right now Government is looking for other alternative, RBS-15 or anything else like Exocet block 3 missile with local production option is in talk right now.



What about c705?

Is the cooperation freezed?


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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> US origin M18 assault rifle with silencer, modified and parts reproduced in Vietnam



I think it they are CAR 15 rifles (the predecessor of M4). Viet Nam produce them without license and I am very curious how those babies are doing in the shooting ranges and if they are just as good. So funny that they even copy the English writing on the rifles: COLT'S Patent, USA, auto, safe.....

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## Aqsuperman

In my opinion, our M18 are a converted and refurbished product, not newly produced. We probably use captured M16A1 and A2 for this. The receiver is retained but the stock and some extra parts are replaced with newer components. On the sideline, this picture is rather intersting : a USN bell on HQ-501 , 502 or 503 . The ship has been in service since WW2


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## Gen Padmanabhan

Carlosa said:


> Ah ok, what you call Barak-2 I know it as Barak 8 ER (extended range), I think that's the Israeli designation.
> Myself, I'm a big fan of Barak 8 and I think David's Sling will be very good and I'd like to see it deployed in Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam is buying the land version of Aster 30 and myself, I would prefer to see Barak 8 instead, but it might be too late. At least Vietnam bought Spyder, but it would be a great combo with Barak 8. We still have hope for David's Sling. Spyder, Barak 8 ER and David's Sling, I would call that the Israeli S-400.



Actually there is also difference between Barak-8 ER & Barak-2 (those are not same), ER also going to be naval version & going to use ELM-2248 MFSTAR, but Barak-2 going to use ELM-2084.
http://www.iai.co.il/2013/34481-41832-en/Groups_ELTA_EltaNumber_Products-ELM.aspx

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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> I think it they are CAR 15 rifles (the predecessor of M4). Viet Nam produce them without license and I am very curious how those babies are doing in the shooting ranges and if they are just as good. So funny that they even copy the English writing on the rifles: COLT'S Patent, USA, auto, safe.....


the guy who initially posts the pictures on a forum claims to be an infantryman, too. like you.

he says Vietnam copies and produces the rifles, but unlike the Chinese, we want to give credit to the one, who invented the rifle: America. hence we copy even all writings as "made in USA" 



yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> That is a very extensive upgrade... Surprised about Ukraine being involved due to Russia.
> 
> Anyway, T54/T55M3's pack can go against a modern 3rd gen MBT?
> 
> I have doubts that a 105mm cannon has a good chance of killing a 3rd gen MBT, for example M-84's in Croatian/Slovenian/Serbian/Kuwait's army can survive a 105mm depleted uranium hitting front of the turret.


I have no clue. but consider this: antitank weapon such as modern RPGs with multiple stages can pierce main battle tanks at short distance, defeating heavy armor of tanks. it is about a combination of anti tank shell and distance, piercing the tank at the right angle, exposing the weakness of the tank makes the difference between winner or loser.

So why can´t a T54/T55-M3 tank with 105 mm cannon do the same?


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## Viet

Vietnam Adds Military Muscle as South China Sea Tensions Escalate - WSJ


Trefor Moss
The Wall Street Journal
Feb. 21, 2016 6:00 p.m. ET 

Vietnam was the world’s eighth-largest arms importer from 2011-2015, leaping from 43rd place in the previous five-year period. 






ENLARGE
_Vietnamese soldiers march during a parade in Hanoi, Sept. 2, 2015. Photo: European Pressphoto Agency_


MANILA—Rising tensions in the South China Sea have turned Vietnam into one of the world’s most active arms importers, with Hanoi buying more weaponry than wealthy neighbors South Korea and Singapore as it tries to counter China’s increasingly aggressive territorial claims.

Tiny Vietnam was the world’s eighth-largest arms importer from 2011-2015—a huge leap from the previous five-year period when it was in 43rd place, according to the latest annual study of global arms-trade patterns by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, a security think tank. Vietnam accounted for roughly 3% of world-wide arms purchases between 2011 and 2015, the study, released Monday, shows.

India, which imported 14% of globally traded arms, topped the list, followed by Saudi Arabia and China.

Territorial disputes in the South China Sea have driven Vietnam to invest heavily in its navy and air force to help it defend maritime claims, which are contested by China and other neighboring countries.

“With Vietnam we’re seeing a very clear reaction to what China’s doing in the South China Sea,” said Siemon Wezeman, senior researcher at SIPRI.

China, meanwhile, has emerged as a major weapons exporter, overtaking European rivals to become the world’s third-largest arms supplier, the SIPRI survey shows. China supplied roughly 6% of global arms over the past five years, SIPRI said, up from 3.6% in the 2006-10 period—though still significantly lagging market leaders the U.S. (33%) and Russia (25%).





ENLARGE


“It’s obvious and necessary for Vietnam to invest in new military equipment, especially after the South China Sea has become a hot spot,” said Tran Cong Truc, former chief of the government’s border committee said, stressing that the new hardware isn't aimed specifically at China.

Vietnam officially spent $4.3 billion on defense in 2014, compared with China’s $132 billion military budget. Both countries are believed by defense analysts to understate their military spending.

Sino-Vietnamese ties were severely strained in 2014 when China moved an offshore drilling rig into disputed waters east of Vietnam. Relations have been rocky ever since, with Vietnam protesting earlier this month when satellite imagery revealed the presence of Chinese surface-to-air missiles on Woody Island, China’s main outpost in the Paracel Islands, a chain also claimed by Hanoi.

Vietnamese officials have also repeatedly criticized China for its recent construction of seven artificial islets in the Spratly Islands, another remote South China Sea region claimed by both parties.


*Related*



U.S.-Beijing Spat Escalates Over South China Sea (Feb. 17)
U.S. Warship Sails Near Island Claimed by China (Jan. 31)
Vietnam Maintains Course as General Secretary Reappointed (Jan. 27)
Vietnam Claims China Towed Oil Exploration Rig Into Disputed Waters (Jan. 19)
Vietnam: China’s Flights to South China Sea a Threat to Air Safety (Jan. 9)


Other Southeast Asian countries such as the Philippines, which also has territorial disputes with Beijing over the South China Sea, and Indonesia, which is watching China’s greater assertiveness with unease, have been buying new military equipment. But Vietnam’s modernization program has been much more ambitious, according to security experts.

In recent years, Vietnam has ordered six Russian-made Kilo-class submarines armed with cruise missiles, 36 Sukhoi Su-30MK2 jet fighters, six stealth naval frigates, six fast attack craft, and most recently an advanced Israeli air-defense system.

“It’s not over the top” given the heightened tensions, Mr. Wezeman said. “It’s just enough to make sure that if China pushes, then Vietnam can do some counter-pushing.”

Vietnam will likely remain a top weapons importer as it continues its “steady march” toward assembling a credible military deterrent, said Carlyle Thayer, a Vietnamese defense expert at the University of New South Wales.

“Of course, Vietnam has to be very concerned about [Chinese assertiveness]; there’s no reason for them to stop’’ buying more weaponry, he said.

Maritime-surveillance aircraft, drones, and advanced sensors and* satellite systems* will be next on Hanoi’s shopping list, Mr. Thayer said, equipment that will enable the Vietnamese military to make full use of its advanced new hardware.

Having lifted restrictions on the sale of nonlethal weaponry to Vietnam in 2014, the U.S. is eager to tap into the Vietnamese market and erode Russia’s dominance there, Mr. Thayer said, with the sale of second-hand P-3C Orion surveillance aircraft a likely first step.

Tensions with many emerging weapon-importing countries such as India, the Philippines and Vietnam—which might otherwise be promising markets for Chinese arms—have limited Beijing’s options as it tries to grow sales, Mr. Wezeman observed.

So while China has successfully established itself as an arms supplier to developing countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar, it will struggle to compete against the U.S. and Russia in more lucrative markets, he said.


*Write to *Trefor Moss at Trefor.Moss@wsj.com

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## Viet

*New subs might not be enough for Vietnam to defend its South China Sea claims*


By Nam Nguyen for The Diplomat
February 16, 2016










The fifth _Kilo_-class submarine procured for the Vietnamese People’s Navy (VPN) arrived at Cam Ranh Bay at the beginning of February. The Russian-built submarine started its journey from St Petersberg on the 16th of December on the Dutch-registered cargo ship _Rolldock_ _Star_ and arrived late in the night on Tuesday, February 2, according to _Thanh Nien News._

There are currently four Vietnamese crews, supported by Russian advisers, for each of the existing _Kilo_-class Type 636 submarines in service with the VPN. Under Vietnam’s expanded relationship with Russia, a purpose-built submarine support facility was included as part of the deal to procure six conventional submarines for the VPN.

With the end of this modernization cycle looming on the horizon, however, it remains to be seen how much of an impact these new platforms will have on the security balance in Southeast Asia and, more specifically, the maritime disputes in the South China Sea.

Although Vietnam is progressing with its platform deliveries as scheduled, Hanoi has only recently deployed its first fully-operational _Kilo_-class submarine. In the mean-time it is unclear what impact the new Kilo’s will have on Vietnam’s naval and maritime law enforcement operations in the South China Sea. Even with an operational submarine as a deterrent, there are still significant capability gaps that Vietnamese military planners need to consider. Also, as history has shown, the ability to follow up initial military action with additional forces to solidify victory is essential in the amphibious domain; Hanoi would do well to heed some of the lessons from previous skirmishes with China over land in the South China Sea.

This, of course, does not mean that Hanoi needs to pursue a strategy similar to that of China’s. Instead what is important for the rapidly-modernizing country to consider is the requirement for at least some capacity to achieve limited sea control. As some analysts have suggested, platforms such as submarines will not be enough to achieve sea control during conflict. Surface ships, and lots of them, forms an essential element of this facet of military planning despite the vulnerabilities of surface combatants against submarines and long-range missiles.

Although delivery of the _Kilo_ submarines appears to be on track, the full operating capacity for the new Kilos is still some years away. What does provide some glimmer of hope for the VPN is the Russian-built equipment now in service in Vietnam’s arsenal, including the Su-30MK2V Flankers and Bastion K-300P mobile coastal batteries armed with the Orynx missile. The new hardware will be well-served if Vietnam is able to expand its ISR capabilities in order to provide better domain awareness and targeting data for conventional attacks. Investing in unmanned systems, such as the HS-6L long-range unmanned aerial vehicle, can also assist in better tactical awareness and investing in better satellite coverage can provide increased domain awareness in the South China Sea.

Whilst not entirely new to Vietnam’s theater of operations, the reliability and range of these new platforms will be able to assist in providing a capability edge in limited action and sea control if a “hot” conflict were to flash up. Vietnam’s modernization efforts to date have primarily been aimed at replacing aging equipment. If Hanoi’s aim was to further strengthen its footing in the South China Sea, the Vietnamese People Party’s debate needs to be steered beyond what the _Kilo-_class can provide and consider what assets can best-serve his goal.



_Nam Nguyen is a graduate of the University of New South Wales and the Australian Defence Force Academy. He is currently a warfare officer in the Royal Australian Navy and has publishes regularly on military and strategic affairs. He is an MPhil candidate at UNSW and the views expressed in this article are his own. _


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> *New subs might not be enough for Vietnam to defend its South China Sea claims*
> 
> 
> By Nam Nguyen for The Diplomat
> February 16, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fifth _Kilo_-class submarine procured for the Vietnamese People’s Navy (VPN) arrived at Cam Ranh Bay at the beginning of February. The Russian-built submarine started its journey from St Petersberg on the 16th of December on the Dutch-registered cargo ship _Rolldock_ _Star_ and arrived late in the night on Tuesday, February 2, according to _Thanh Nien News._
> 
> There are currently four Vietnamese crews, supported by Russian advisers, for each of the existing _Kilo_-class Type 636 submarines in service with the VPN. Under Vietnam’s expanded relationship with Russia, a purpose-built submarine support facility was included as part of the deal to procure six conventional submarines for the VPN.
> 
> With the end of this modernization cycle looming on the horizon, however, it remains to be seen how much of an impact these new platforms will have on the security balance in Southeast Asia and, more specifically, the maritime disputes in the South China Sea.
> 
> Although Vietnam is progressing with its platform deliveries as scheduled, Hanoi has only recently deployed its first fully-operational _Kilo_-class submarine. In the mean-time it is unclear what impact the new Kilo’s will have on Vietnam’s naval and maritime law enforcement operations in the South China Sea. Even with an operational submarine as a deterrent, there are still significant capability gaps that Vietnamese military planners need to consider. Also, as history has shown, the ability to follow up initial military action with additional forces to solidify victory is essential in the amphibious domain; Hanoi would do well to heed some of the lessons from previous skirmishes with China over land in the South China Sea.
> 
> This, of course, does not mean that Hanoi needs to pursue a strategy similar to that of China’s. Instead what is important for the rapidly-modernizing country to consider is the requirement for at least some capacity to achieve limited sea control. As some analysts have suggested, platforms such as submarines will not be enough to achieve sea control during conflict. Surface ships, and lots of them, forms an essential element of this facet of military planning despite the vulnerabilities of surface combatants against submarines and long-range missiles.
> 
> Although delivery of the _Kilo_ submarines appears to be on track, the full operating capacity for the new Kilos is still some years away. What does provide some glimmer of hope for the VPN is the Russian-built equipment now in service in Vietnam’s arsenal, including the Su-30MK2V Flankers and Bastion K-300P mobile coastal batteries armed with the Orynx missile. The new hardware will be well-served if Vietnam is able to expand its ISR capabilities in order to provide better domain awareness and targeting data for conventional attacks. Investing in unmanned systems, such as the HS-6L long-range unmanned aerial vehicle, can also assist in better tactical awareness and investing in better satellite coverage can provide increased domain awareness in the South China Sea.
> 
> Whilst not entirely new to Vietnam’s theater of operations, the reliability and range of these new platforms will be able to assist in providing a capability edge in limited action and sea control if a “hot” conflict were to flash up. Vietnam’s modernization efforts to date have primarily been aimed at replacing aging equipment. If Hanoi’s aim was to further strengthen its footing in the South China Sea, the Vietnamese People Party’s debate needs to be steered beyond what the _Kilo-_class can provide and consider what assets can best-serve his goal.
> 
> 
> 
> _Nam Nguyen is a graduate of the University of New South Wales and the Australian Defence Force Academy. He is currently a warfare officer in the Royal Australian Navy and has publishes regularly on military and strategic affairs. He is an MPhil candidate at UNSW and the views expressed in this article are his own. _



6 subs ain't going to do much.


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## tbquestion

vtnsx said:


> 6 subs ain't going to do much.


This might be a off-topic, but Conservatives in South Korea are calling for nuke weapon in dealing with N. korea:

Calls for S. Korea to take nuclear path, East Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

Maybe, Vietnam should start on this path if she hasn't already. Vietnam might not succeed, but it will cause her aggressor to pause in his track.


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## Aqsuperman

With luck, VN might produce some dirty bombs with nuclear wastes and mannage to put it in a Scud but that is it. To support a robust nuclear program ,either military or economic ,require a very high level of manpower and investment which VN can ill-afford. For now i think a concentration in convential weapons and tactics has a more promising result. We cant compete on pair with our lovely neighboor on the North but with 6 kilo submarines we sure as hell can make them pay hard 

A T-54 crew is listening to instructions before a live-firing excersise

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## Mokaman

Aqsuperman said:


> In my opinion, our M18 are a converted and refurbished product, not newly produced. We probably use captured M16A1 and A2 for this.



@Aqsuperman I agree with you. The more I analyze those guns the more I think those CAR15 and M16A1 are just stockpile left after the war. Considering the +1 million troops (regulars, reserves and militia) of the South Vietnamese army, VPA could ended up with hundred thousands of those rifles. It logical for VPA to just refurbished and add silencers... Why building a new manufacturing lines to produce old generation rifles (when those CAR15 and M16 have been upgraded multiple times for M4 and M16A2-A4)? And the Colt company would sue Viet Nam for sure if they start production those guns? By the way, if they refurbished those guns I hope they fix those horrible jams problems of the CAR15 and M16A1

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## Viet

tbquestion said:


> This might be a off-topic, but Conservatives in South Korea are calling for nuke weapon in dealing with N. korea:
> 
> Calls for S. Korea to take nuclear path, East Asia News & Top Stories - The Straits Times
> 
> Maybe, Vietnam should start on this path if she hasn't already. Vietnam might not succeed, but it will cause her aggressor to pause in his track.


theoretically yes, realistic no.

at least not for now.

there are many hurdles we will have to overcome, from mastering the technology to getting political support from a superpower. to mention is the money we need for nuclear armament: estimated $100 billion.


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## Viet

AK-47 is still the best, isn´t it?
widely popular, not too expensive, very reliable and respectable firepower.








Hanoi. new recruits of the new year. 4,000 Hanoian young freshman will join the army this year. Have fun!


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## Viet

VN satellite to enter space by 2018 - Society - VietNam News


February, 23 2016 16:44:00
Viet Nam News


HA NOI (VNS) — A 50kg satellite, measuring 50x50x50cm, will be launched into space by Viet Nam in 2018.






_Asso.Prof. Dr. Pham Anh Tuan at the workshop (Source: hanoimoi.com.vn)_








_Design of the *MicroDragon* satellite. The 50kg satellite will be launched in 2018 with assistance from Japan. — Photo vnsg.org.vn_



The MicroDragon satellite will be designed and created by Vietnamese engineers, with the support of Japanese experts. Japan's Epsilon rocket, created by IHI Aerospace company, will carry the MicroDragon satellite into space.







_Picture: Japan’s Epsilon-1 rocket blasts off from its launching pad at the Uchinoura Space Center in Kimotsuki town, Kagoshima prefecture._



*The satellite will observe the coastal areas of the country* to evaluate water quality, navigate marine food resources and follow up on changes in coastal areas to inform Viet Nam's aquaculture breeding sector.

Director of Viet Nam National Satellite Centre (VNSC) Pham Anh Tuan said the MicroDragon project is expected to help create an environment in which young people have the chance to practice working with strict discipline and independent creativity.

Viet Nam launched the 1kg *PicoDragon* satellite to give Vietnamese experts the chance to explore the process of designing, creating and piloting a satellite in August 2013.

Under the Made-in-Vietnam satellite development roadmap, the country will launch the 10kg *NanoDragon* satellite in 2016, the 50kg *MicroDragon* satellite in 2018 and the 500kg *LOTUSat-2* in 2020. — VNS


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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> Yes, please explain the differences in more detail.
> That subject is not off topic since Vietnam plans to get the T-50 in the 2020s anyway.
> The Indonesian members also regularly read this thread and Indonesia is buying the SU-35 so its all related.



Well, for today T-50 platform (T-50 is a factory name of platform, for example, platform of Su-27 called T-10) considered as more stealth compare to the F-22 and F-35 (F-35 due its smaller size can have the same RCS as T-50).
- one of the main reason for this is in general, smaller size of the vertical and horizontal stabilizers which is doesn't affect aerodynamic of T-50 + instead of S- air intake, the T-50 using technology of radar blocker combined with C- air-intake. The radar blocker technology in air intake considered as more perspective and the engines don't lose the power as in the case of S air-intake

engines:
-with the current AL-41F1 engines the T-50 can reach supersonic speed with payload without using afterburner. (F-35 and Chinese 5th generation jets can't). Engines of the F-22 has a bigger sizes and weight compare to AL-41F1 and also consume more fuel - which is reducing combat range.

-radars and avionics, ECM
Just look at this infographic, i don't think there is many 5th or 4th generation jets has even close numbers of different radars and ECM in one fighter jets .





and of course a lot of new weapons were created for the T-50.

Close future (3-5 years):
-new more powerful engines with increased trust at 25-30%
-new radar will be based on Radio-Optical Phased Arrays (ROFAR) - a revolutionary technology
-hypersonic missiles.

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## tbquestion

The news on the web is that vietnam s big neighbor has deploy fighter jets in additional to HQ SAM and radar.

What's in the world is gone on?? I thought China was pleased when Trong stay on as party Chief. Am I missing something.??



tbquestion said:


> The news on the web is that vietnam s big neighbor has deploy fighter jets in additional to HQ SAM and radar to Paracel island
> 
> What's in the world is gone on?? I thought China was pleased when Trong stay on as party Chief. Am I missing something.??


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## Aqsuperman

Well.........let just say sh*t got real fast around here for no reasons at all :v And it happen when the newest conscription period is in place............ damn nice timing :v


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## Viet

What China’s SAMs in the South China Sea Mean for Vietnam | The Diplomat
Only “boots on the ground” will secure Vietnam’s national interests in the South China Sea.


By Nam Nguyen
February 24, 2016







681 brigade at the 60th anniversary of establishment of the Navy Vietnam, with K-300P Bastion-P mobile coastal defense missile system (photo : Tuoitre)



International attention has once again closed in on the South China Sea over claims that China has deployed HQ-9 surface-to-air missile batteries to Woody Island. Reports suggest that U.S. intelligence sources have confirmed the presence of these mobile batteries, whereas satellite images of Woody Island earlier this month showed no such batteries. China’s Foreign Minister, Wang Yi, has downplayed concerns over these claims by suggesting that China only has limited self-defense capabilities on some of its islands. Also, late last year Chinese President Xi Jinping reassured the international community that China did not intend to militarize its islands in the South China Sea.

These statements, of course, do not reassure China’s neighbors. The fourth-generation of HQ-9 mobile missile batteries are reported to have a range of over 125 kilometers. This would complicate military aviation operations by claimant states and other nations operating in the region, such as the United States or Australia. What this means is that Chinese forces now have an increased stand-off capability, potentially giving them the capability edge in maneuverability and intelligence gathering, further solidifying their position on Woody Island. It would not be unreasonable to infer that similar installations will soon appear across other Chinese-occupied islands in the South China Sea.

New missile systems in the region are not just unique to China. Vietnam has also continuously upgraded its own defensive missile systems, procuring two batteries of the Russian-made *K-300P* Bastion coastal missile system in 2011 and a further two batteries of the* S-300* PMU-2 long-range surface-to-air missile systems in 2012. In 2014, Vietnam upgraded both its short-range surface-to-air missile systems, as well as its coastal missile systems. Also, the Vietnamese military has been undergoing efforts to boost its coastal surveillance radar systems since 2013, and the country even successfully built its first unmanned aerial vehicle in 2013.


Vietnam S-300 missiles






















The problem with the existing framework of Vietnam’s missile batteries and surveillance system is not in its range or lethality. Indeed, the mere presence of these weapons provides a considerable layer of defense that any force must overcome if it were to attack Vietnam. The issue is that these systems are based on the mainland with a view to territorial defense and Vietnam has not demonstrated the capability to deploy them across the region.

If a conflict were to erupt in the South China Sea, Hanoi would soon find that its military installations in the South China Sea would be left vulnerable to attack and at risk of inadequate resupply. As Ngo Minh Tri and Koh Swee Lean Collin have suggested, limited sea control capability was fundamental to the Chinese victory in the Battle of the Paracel Islands in 1974. Every attempt must be made to learn from Saigon’s mishap and plan to avoid a similar defeat if conflict were to erupt. Having territory is one thing, but holding onto it remains another challenge altogether.

As I have mentioned previously, the Vietnamese military has been undergoing significant efforts to modernize its forces, including new submarines, frigates, and fighter aircraft. But without the capacity for strategic sealift, any ground force would be fighting with one arm tied behind their back and left vulnerable to being routed in battle, as was seen in 1974. Currently the main amphibious elements of the VPA consists of ageing Soviet-era and ex-U.S. landing craft in various states of repair and in spite of recent efforts by national ship builders to produce indigenous-designed landing craft.



_Nam Nguyen is a graduate of the University of New South Wales and the Australian Defence Force Academy. He is currently a warfare officer in the Royal Australian Navy and has publishes regularly on military and strategic affairs. He is an MPhil candidate at UNSW and the views expressed in this article are his own. _

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## Viet

did I post here a rumour sometimes ago, Vietnam plans to open 4 new airports close to China?

here is the first new one: Quang Ninh airport. it is just 50 km away to the Halong Bay, with the first stage to be completed in one year. it is understood, though it is a civil airport, it can serve military purposes as well. fighter jets starting from the new airport can reach Chinese major naval base on Hainan island in no time.

another step on the escalation ladder


Vietnam to open airport near Ha Long Bay in 2017: report | Business | Thanh Nien Daily

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## Aqsuperman

VPA military shovel..........kind of plain :b


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## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

tbquestion said:


> The news on the web is that vietnam s big neighbor has deploy fighter jets in additional to HQ SAM and radar.
> 
> What's in the world is gone on?? I thought China was pleased when Trong stay on as party Chief. Am I missing something.??




_Sorry Off Topic_ ... ...



How can most of you forget the *old colonial tactic employ by US and their supporting* nation.
*Divide--and--Conquer* is the old colonial tactic that has been used over and
over again by all the white colonial powers since 15th century.

Yes, you have been missing something.
My guess you have been brainwashed in a deep way by US
the global Plunderer and Heinous Invader for far too long.

===

1) Firstly, let me ask you *who are stealing Indonesian Off Shore Oils in East Kalimantan and Gold in Freeport, Irian Jaya every second since Suharto era* ? --- How much did Indonesia people lost ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans ~ that's who )

2) Secondly, who stole Timor Timur from Indonesia ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )

3) Thirdly, *who stole Eastern IRIAN island from Indonesia* ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )

4) Fourthly, who stole Christmas island from Indonesia ( very close to West Java island ) ?
( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )

Need I give you more example of Plundering and Theft ... ...suffered by Indonesia and Indonesian at the hand of master plunderer ^ the good old USA and Americans and its sidekick Australia and Australians ??

===

Make no mistake about it ... ...

The build up Anti-Stealth Radar and HQ-9 SAM and J-11B by China *are targeted
only at USAF F-22 and USN warship Burkes* from the Dajjal empire USA.

Let not be forever fooled by American and Western media ... ...

Americans, Australia, and Japan are working very hard to bottle up China SSBN 094 submarine from sailing into Pacific ocean, because if China does not have a nuclear 2nd strike, then USA, Australia, and Japan can always bully and blackmail China whenever they like.
The South China sea problem is only about how China is working hard to
stop and end the American nuclear blackmailing towards China.

===

OTOH, *China with their 1B1R global economic program* would like very much to bring even more Win--Win--Win Economic Prosperity to Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam, and all China friendly nations across Asia to Europe *by financing and helping other nations building up their Cutting Edge infrastructures to connect Europe and South East Asia immediately right now* to spur vibrant economic activities around the High Speed Rail dedicated track corridor, just like what happen in China for since 2008.

Proof:

Who is financing the High Speed rail from Jakarta---Bandung *100% without even 
asking for the Indonesian government guarantee in case the project fails* ??
( Answer = People's Republic of China ~ that's who )

Please correctly get your facts ... ...
Please do *not let your personal experiences of the impolite, rude, and stupid behaviors
of some street level regular Chinese in blocking the nation building* and mutual economic prosperity between our nations. ( Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, and China )

Too many people has the *American Zero--Sum mentality deeply ingrained* in their thinking.
Let's embrace the *new era of Win--Win--Win Global Prosperity for all* progressive nations.
 


_Back to Vietnam Military news_ ... ...


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## Carlosa

*U.S. mulls selling weapons to Vietnam to stave off Chinese ‘hegemony’*

*U.S. mulls selling weapons to Vietnam to stave off China military buildup in region - Washington Times
*





The top admiral in charge of U.S. military operations in Asia saysWashington should drop its remaining restrictions on weapons sales to Vietnam in order to better defend against China’s military buildup in the South China Sea.

Navy Adm. Harry Harris Jr., the head of U.S. Pacific Command, told lawmakers on the Senate Armed Services CommitteeTuesday that they’d have to believe the world was flat to think Beijing is not trying to militarily dominate the region.

“I believe China seeks hegemony in East Asia — simple as that,” he said in remarks likely to further inflame tensions that have risen between Washington and Beijing during recent days.

The two powers have traded rhetorical barbs since last week when reports emerged that Beijing had deployed anti-aircraft missiles on the Paracels Islands chain. The chain has been under Chinese control for decades but is also claimed by Vietnam and Taiwan.

On Monday, the Center for Strategic International Studies, aWashington think-tank, reported that China has also built new radar facilities in the Spratly Islands, another disputed chain further south than the Paracels in the South China Sea.

Some analysts have argued that Beijing is engaged in a yearslong strategy known as “salami-slicing” — effectively conducting a steady stream of small military actions that when compiled over time will amount to a major reorganization of the military power structure in the region.

During his testimony on Tuesday, Adm. Harris confirmed the new CSIS report about Chinese radar facilities. But he also asserted that the overall situation presents a “strategic opportunity” for the U.S. to beef up its alliances with nations on China’s periphery, including Vietnam, whose leaders have increasingly called on Washington to take a more aggressive posture.

The Obama administration has pushed for warmer relations with Hanoi during recent years. In 2014, the administration announced the partial lifting of the U.S. ban on weapons sales toVietnam. The move was historic in that it came some 40 years after the end of the Vietnam war.

However, some restrictions were left in place. Administration officials have said only the sale of lethal maritime security and surveillance capabilities would be allowed and, to date, no weapons sales to Vietnam have been reported.

Sen. John McCain, a Vietnam veteran, who has long pushed for reconciliation between Washington and Hanoi despite the communist government in power in there, brought the weapons issue up during Tuesday’s hearing.

“Do you think it’s important for us to lift restrictions on the sale of weapons to Vietnam?” the Arizona Republican and ArmedServices Committee chairman asked.

“Yes, senator, I believe that we should improve our relationship with Vietnam,” Adm. Harris responded. “I think it’s a great strategic opportunity for us, and I think the Vietnamese people would welcome the opportunity to work closer with us as their security partner of choice.”

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## Viet

it is highnoon for the US to end arms embargo. what are they waiting for?

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## Viet

*Vietnam Confirmed Purchasing of 20 Israeli EXTRA | Defence blog*

Feb 25, 2016





_EXTRA missiles_


According to a report recently published SIPRI said, Vietnam has purchased 3 systems SPYDER-SR missiles, S-125 Pechora-2T, and especially the 20 combinations EXTRA rockets.

EXTRA missile developed by Israeli defense companies Military Industries (IMI) and has been exported to foreign countries to remain anonymous, even if the Israeli army has not yet entered service this weapon system.

EXTRA has a range of around 150 km, the weight of 150 kg missile, circular error probability (CEP) of about 10 m. Meanwhile, 155 mm artillery shells by US standards is expected to be 200-300 m CEP at much more modest range.






_EXTRA missiles_



EXTRA capable of launching from a variety of means to carry, launch tubes are assembled in clusters of 2 to 16 to release results from the ground. Cluster launch tubes can be mounted on trucks or in highly mobile battlefield fixed. EXTRA bullet to the airtight container should have a long life and low maintenance costs.

With the above advantages, EXTRA very suitable to equip the army artillery, rockets coast of Vietnam People’s Navy. EXTRA can appropriately arranged on the islands are small as some floating islands of the Spratly Islands of Vietnam.

Thus, along with the system EXTRA, Vietnam Navy also have 4K51 Rubezh, Bal-E, Bastion-P and REDUT, the system will create a network of integrated coastal defense navy new Vietnam, which is a dense network of 5 levels, assuming the role of attack to different defenses.

Because according to sources from the Corporation tactical missile (KTRV) of Russia in mid-2015, Vietnam was the second country after Russia put to equip the missile defense coast Bal-E advanced .

Shore missile systems to undertake this important task is to control the seas and the Strait area; protect naval bases, protection and infrastructure targets on our shores, as well as the coast guard on the direction of the enemy can amphibious warships.






_Bal-E Mobile Coastal Missile System with Kh-35 Uran missile_


The combination of short range missile defense Bal-E is capable of effectively supporting the missile defense Bastion-P coast range that Vietnam Navy is using while the lower price. Bal-E is one of the missile defense system to maneuver coast, capable of sudden attacks and massively into the enemy ships, change the battlefield in a short time, then re ready to make a the next powerful attack.

Bal-E has good maneuverability, firepower and high precision, can be operational in all weather conditions, with the ability to lead a fully autonomous rocket after launch in conditions of antagonism firepower and electronic radio’s keeper.

Owning missile system Bal-E coastal defense forces Vietnam can solve tactical missions-campaign with minimal cost by building a system of exploitation and repair unique missile most, by type Kh-35E missiles to equip combinations Bal-E was no stranger to the Navy in Vietnam.

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## Viet

*Sigma Class Warship*


never ending story. will Sigma come to Vietnam? yes or no, or maybe yes and no. Latest rumour says: it comes. somewhen between end of 2016 as earliest and 2019 as latest.

Purchase is confirmed by

SIPRI Yearbook 2014
Armaments, Disarmament and International Security
Vietnam
Page 14

http://www.sipri.org/yearbook/2014/files/sipri-yearbook-2014-chapter-4-section-iii









Sigma 9814 class

Specs:


_2 x Sigma-class corvettes for $668 million, with the Dutch partly responsible for funding_
_98m in length, 1,950 tons, with a crew of 91_
_1 x multi-beam S-band radar with 250+ km range. It’s tied into Thales’ TACTICOS combat system. SMART-S Mk 2 radar and STING EO Mk 2 electro-optical fire control system_
_8x MBDA Exocet MM40 Block 3_
_12x MBDA MICA VL surface-to-air missiles (in VLS)_
_1x Oto Melara 76mm main gun_
_2x Oto Melara MARLIN-WS 30mm gun mounts_
_1 x anti-submarine helicopters Ka-28_
_latest generation of electronics and sensors from Thales_
_torpedo launchers_
_one of the vessels will be built by DSNS in the Netherlands and the other in Vietnam, where Damen owns five commercial shipyards and is developing a sixth in Haiphong._


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## Aqsuperman

Replenishing ammunitons in a break betwwen live-fire excersise...........I think there is something oddd about that tank turret though


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## Barmaley

Aqsuperman said:


> Replenishing ammunitons in a break betwwen live-fire excersise...........I think there is something oddd about that tank turret though



it's a *T-54-2* have such turret


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## Aqsuperman

Barmaley said:


> it's a *T-54-2* have such turret


Thanks for the info, i kept thinking about American M series tank turret when i see the upper part of that turret lol :v 






1 of 2 North korea Yugo submarine in service. Still retain for potential Commando insertation. No longer equip with torpedoes drop pods

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## Viet

a major step forward. End of this year 2016, all 6 Kilo Subs will be operational, ready patrolling the sea lanes. day and night. defending Vietnam at sea. especially for Vietnam submarine force, the subs have GE2-01 radar and improved MGK 400E sonar onboard for quick target recognition/acquisition, able to operate in more weather conditions.

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## Desertfalcon

Viet said:


> it is highnoon for the US to end arms embargo. what are they waiting for?


I agree completely and will convey that to my Congressman.

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## Viet

Desertfalcon said:


> I agree completely and will convey that to my Congressman.


thanks. for VN armed forces, it would be a much needed step in the arms race.

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## Viet

News from Molniya class corvette. the two new Molniya warships currently under sea trails, coded M5, M6, are expected to enter service middle of 2016. 4 new more Molniya are expected to be built, with a more powerful weaponry onboard: Kalibr cruise missile.

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## Mokaman

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> _Sorry Off Topic_ ... ...
> 
> 
> 
> How can most of you forget the *old colonial tactic employ by US and their supporting* nation.
> *Divide--and--Conquer* is the old colonial tactic that has been used over and
> over again by all the white colonial powers since 15th century.
> 
> Yes, you have been missing something.
> My guess you have been brainwashed in a deep way by US
> the global Plunderer and Heinous Invader for far too long.
> 
> ===
> 
> 1) Firstly, let me ask you *who are stealing Indonesian Off Shore Oils in East Kalimantan and Gold in Freeport, Irian Jaya every second since Suharto era* ? --- How much did Indonesia people lost ?
> ( Answer = the good old USA and Americans ~ that's who )
> 
> 2) Secondly, who stole Timor Timur from Indonesia ?
> ( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )
> 
> 3) Thirdly, *who stole Eastern IRIAN island from Indonesia* ?
> ( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )
> 
> 4) Fourthly, who stole Christmas island from Indonesia ( very close to West Java island ) ?
> ( Answer = the good old USA and Americans and Australia and Australians ~ that's who )
> 
> Need I give you more example of Plundering and Theft ... ...suffered by Indonesia and Indonesian at the hand of master plunderer ^ the good old USA and Americans and its sidekick Australia and Australians ??
> 
> ===
> 
> Make no mistake about it ... ...
> 
> The build up Anti-Stealth Radar and HQ-9 SAM and J-11B by China *are targeted
> only at USAF F-22 and USN warship Burkes* from the Dajjal empire USA.
> 
> Let not be forever fooled by American and Western media ... ...
> 
> Americans, Australia, and Japan are working very hard to bottle up China SSBN 094 submarine from sailing into Pacific ocean, because if China does not have a nuclear 2nd strike, then USA, Australia, and Japan can always bully and blackmail China whenever they like.
> The South China sea problem is only about how China is working hard to
> stop and end the American nuclear blackmailing towards China.
> 
> ===
> 
> OTOH, *China with their 1B1R global economic program* would like very much to bring even more Win--Win--Win Economic Prosperity to Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam, and all China friendly nations across Asia to Europe *by financing and helping other nations building up their Cutting Edge infrastructures to connect Europe and South East Asia immediately right now* to spur vibrant economic activities around the High Speed Rail dedicated track corridor, just like what happen in China for since 2008.
> 
> Proof:
> 
> Who is financing the High Speed rail from Jakarta---Bandung *100% without even
> asking for the Indonesian government guarantee in case the project fails* ??
> ( Answer = People's Republic of China ~ that's who )
> 
> Please correctly get your facts ... ...
> Please do *not let your personal experiences of the impolite, rude, and stupid behaviors
> of some street level regular Chinese in blocking the nation building* and mutual economic prosperity between our nations. ( Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, and China )
> 
> Too many people has the *American Zero--Sum mentality deeply ingrained* in their thinking.
> Let's embrace the *new era of Win--Win--Win Global Prosperity for all* progressive nations.
> 
> 
> 
> _Back to Vietnam Military news_ ... ...
> 
> View attachment 295156
> 
> 
> View attachment 295157



The time of Colonial powers and the seizing of territories is over, and how could we forget that China did some nice grabbing land too during that period. How about Tibet, East Turkestan, Paracel islands to name a few. Chinese will say those territories belong to China, but PLA took them military and I'm sure the people in those territories will vote otherwise if they have a choice...of democratic way. About China giving free loan and money to other nations is like a rich man giving gifts and money to beautiful women, so he could to get laid with all of them later on and those women will end up mistresses... The problem is China is still acting like a colonial empire today. Just look at the strategies of China on the Spratly islands: China want it all and want to kick everybody out. Since the modernization of PLA army, the Chinese politic is getting bullier each day and arrogant. It like PLA modernization give China a superiority complex that grow day by day, just like the Japanese Imperial army gave that superiority complex to Japanese people before WW2. If China treating other nations as their equal, China with have a lot of truthful allies. Pakistan-China relation is an example of partner/partner relation, not big brother/little bro. Viet Nam should be a natural ally with China, considering we have a common border and many similarities like religion, ethnicity, cultural, confucius society, ect...But sadly, China never treat Vietnam as a nation but always as a province

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## Aqsuperman

A friendly relation is everything VN has ever wanted toward all countries. Still, after sometime, our old enemy may turn out to be a new friend and our friend turn out to be not too much of a friend..........Hah ! Such diffficult and complexed world we are living in 






New camo and maybe some certain improvements on transmission and targeting...........Still prefer something bigger though


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## Viet

now something different: trouble in little Saigon



Los Angeles Times
Little Saigon: Trouble recruiting for police ranks - Weekend

Why Orange County police departments have trouble recruiting Vietnamese American officers






_Chris Doan, a Westminster police recruit, believes his Vietnamese heritage and language skills would help him on the job. Of the department's 87 officers, just seven are Vietnamese. (Scott Smeltzer / Huntington Beach Independent)
_

By Brittany Woolsey

*Little Saigon stood divided in early 1999.*

An immigrant, Truong Van Tran, had hung the Vietnamese flag at his Westminster shop and placed a photograph of Ho Chi Minh in a window, stirring the anti-communist sentiments of other Vietnamese expatriates.

On a Monday in February, more than 200 police officers in riot gear faced hundreds of demonstrators, who would go on to protest for weeks.

The Westminster Police Department felt it didn't have enough officers to handle the situation and called for help from the Orange County Sheriff's Department and several nearby cities.

Even worse, when an understanding of the Vietnamese culture and language seemed paramount in dealing with the standoff, the Westminster force had only four Vietnamese-speaking officers, according to Cmdr. Timothy Vu.






LAPD is more diverse, but distrust in the community remains 


Although Orange County has made an effort since then to hire more Vietnamese American officers over the years, many say officials need to do better.

The most recent example of the need for better relations occurred just weeks ago, when police and other officials sought help from the Vietnamese community in the search for three inmates who had escaped from the Central Men's Jail in Santa Ana and were believed to be hiding in Little Saigon: Jonathan Tieu, Bac Duong and Hossein Nayeri. The men, considered dangerous, were eventually recaptured.

In the Westminster Police Department, seven of its 87 officers are Vietnamese, Vu said. Of those seven, three are set to retire in the next few years. Since 1999, the department has had as many as eight full-time Vietnamese American officers and one reserve officer.







_Police Explorers Kevin Nguyen, left, and Christopher Cervantes, right, hand out fliers of the three inmates who escaped from an Orange County jail to businesses near Asian Garden Mall in Westminster in late January. (Kevin Chang / Weekend)_


In Garden Grove, four out of 155 police officers are Vietnamese, according to the agency.

"We do have calls for service where we do need a Vietnamese-speaking officer to help translate," said Lt. Bob Bogue, who has been with the Garden Grove Police Department for 29 years. "We come across that probably on a weekly basis. We do have civilian Vietnamese employees that can come out and help, and we also have a translation service, but if we can get our numbers of police officers up in the Vietnamese population, it will help us in our service to the public."

He said economic issues have led to officers in general leaving for other agencies, but the department does its best to recruit.

Little Saigon began in Westminster and spread to Garden Grove. Nearby cities, including Fountain Valley, also have large Vietnamese populations.

The Fountain Valley Police Department has 60 officers, but only one is Vietnamese.

Vu, a 21-year veteran of the Westminster Police Department, said it's imperative that the agency and others increase the number of Vietnamese-speaking officers.

But there are cultural barriers, fed by a wariness of authority and a sense of alienation.

"I think their parents have some influence over potential candidates choosing to either join law enforcement or something else," Vu said.

Jeffrey Brody, a professor of communications at Cal State Fullerton who has researched Vietnamese American communities, said officers in Vietnam had a reputation for corruption during the Vietnam War.

"The South Vietnamese police were not very well respected, so this wouldn't be a profession that parents would encourage their children to go into," he said.

People have reported being stopped randomly for petty crimes in Vietnam and officers accepting bribes in exchange for a detainee's release.

In 2010, 21-year-old Nguyen Van Khuong died a few hours after being taken into custody in Vietnam for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, sparking protests against police brutality, according to the group Human Rights Watch.

Manh Ingwerson joined the Westminster Police Department in 1985 as its first Vietnamese American police officer — and the first in Orange County.

Shortly after his arrival, the department heard rumors that a fabric store was illegally selling pharmaceutical drugs.

Ingwerson was able to successfully purchase the drugs while undercover, resulting in the arrest of the store owners.

He remembers feeling shunned by the Vietnamese American community when he joined the agency.

Ingwerson, whose name is Swedish but who looks Asian and relocated to the U.S. from Vietnam when he was 11, said people in the Vietnamese community considered him a "traitor."

"They were so distrusting of the police," he said. "They thought the police were out to get them into trouble, not to help them." They thought of police as "corrupt," he added.






_Little Saigon. Cmdr. Al Panella, left, accompanies a group of Westminster police Explorers as they hand out fliers about three inmates who escaped from an Orange County jail recently.(Kevin Chang / Weekend)_


Ingwerson, who is planning to retire in July, said he contemplated quitting a few times but stuck with the job because there was no one else to help the Vietnamese people.

But getting more Vietnamese Americans into the police ranks isn't about just changing attitudes. It's about inclusion, Vu said.

"The other aspect of it is we feel that sometimes a lot of these kids just don't have someone that can mentor them or that they can go to ask information about being a police officer," he said. "Law enforcement is, in some ways, an unknown to them."

Vu also noted that getting into law enforcement isn't easy and that a lack of preparation can hurt recruits.

"Sometimes those who are interested aren't prepared to do what they need to do to get themselves competitive for the hiring process," he said. "We see a lot of folks fail out as a result. They're not prepared for the written exam or not too good for the physical agility test."

Still, Chris Doan, one of two Vietnamese American recruits at the Orange County Sheriff's Regional Training Academy in Tustin, thinks he has what it takes. He believes his heritage and language skills might give him an edge in landing a job at the Westminster Police Department.

The 24-year-old Mission Viejo resident, who began training in December at the academy, said he was inspired to become a police officer after working for the university police at Cal State Fullerton, where he graduated with a business degree last spring.

He said he didn't face any backlash from his family or peers, maybe because the Vietnamese community in South County isn't very big and he is largely removed from the cultural pressures.

"My parents never really pressured me into being anything specific," said Doan, who hopes to graduate from the academy in June. "They just kind of let me choose my own career path. When I told them that I wanted to go into law enforcement, they were kind of surprised, but they've been supportive the whole way. I was lucky to have that. I think most of the time, my parents weren't really influenced by other Vietnamese families."

He said he's been training hard in what he called a "military-like boot camp." He has had to pass a written test, a department interview, a background check, a polygraph test, a physical agility test, and medical and psychological exams.

He hopes an increase in Vietnamese American officers will help the community become more trusting of police, especially in Westminster.

"I do want to interact a lot with the Vietnamese community," he said. "The older generations, especially, don't trust cops because of how corrupt they were in Vietnam. I want to show them that we are here to help. We're the good guys and we're on their side."

_brittany.woolsey@latimes.com_

_Woolsey writes for Times Community News._


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## Viet

*Military hospital in southern Vietnam starts construction of $112mn building *

TUOI TRE NEWS
Updated : 02/28/2016 11:25 GMT + 7 







_Construction of a new building started on Saturday at Ho Chi Minh City-based Military Hospital 175, a long-standing medical facility operated by the Ministry of Defense._



The new building, located at 786 Nguyen Kiem Street, Go Vap District, can house 1,000 beds and will cost VND2.5 trillion (US$112 million), taken from the ministry’s budget.

The project, which covers an area of 70,300m², was launched on the 61st anniversary of Vietnamese Doctor’s Day.

A number of senior officials attended the groundbreaking ceremony, among them Vice President of the National Assembly Huynh Ngoc Son, Deputy Minister of Defense Tran Don, and Minister of Health Nguyen Thi Kim Tien.

Generations of the hospital’s medical staff have been yearning for a new building, said Associate Professor Nguyen Hong Son, director of the infirmary.

“We will do our best to make the hospital a formal and prestigious military medical institution that provides the best possible healthcare for soldiers and military officers as well as civilians,” Son said.







_Workers of Corporation 319 ready to launch construction of a new building at Military Hospital 175 in Ho Chi Minh City, February 27, 2016. Photo:_ Tuoi Tre



In May last year, the hospital began constructing a VND2 trillion ($90 million) orthopedic institute with 500 beds. The combined scale of the two buildings will turn the hospital into a 1,500-bed complex that meets the national standards of a special-ranked hospital.

The new building will be equipped with present-day facilities for diagnosis and treatment, which will offer medical service, transfer of technology, and high-quality human resource training to share the strain on central and top hospitals in Ho Chi Minh City.

Once in operation, the hospital’s main building will have a 5-floor-high foundation and three towers soaring nine floors each connected by corridors.

The gross floor area of the main building is 119,720m² (17,273m² of the basement and 102,448m² of the surface area), with 820 beds.

A separate component for mental, infectious, tuberculosis and lung-related diseases is five floors high, with 8,460m² in gross floor area and 180 beds.

Corporation 319, owned by the Ministry of Defense, is in charge of the project and construction of the building is expected to complete by 2018.


----------



## Viet

a bit of *History*


December 1972, US President Richard M. Nixon increasingly desperate, set all in one card, ordering the US Airforce to conduct the Operation Linebacker II, a massive air strike on Hanoi. for the planned air assault, the US mobilized nearly half of B-52 strategic bombers and one third of all tactical aircraft of US airforce. supported by air wings of 6 aircraft carriers: USS America, USS Enterprise, USS Midway, USS Oriskany, USS Ranger and USS Saratoga.

207 B-52 and 2,000 tactical aircraft in total. the largest ever air power amassed in the world military history for a single battle.

To protect Hanoi, the Vietnam People´s Army deployed 3 missile regiments SA-2 and 5 aircraft regiments. plus a network of anti aircraft gun batteries.

the stage was set for the biggest air battle since World War II.



The 11-Day War | HistoryNet

*By Robert O. Harder*
11/5/2012 • Aviation History






_B-52s run a nocturnal gantlet of SAMs and a MiG-21, in Jack Fellows "High Road to Hanoi". _


“It was a near-run thing,” said the Duke of Wellington, after narrowly defeating Napoleon at Waterloo. The same could just as easily be said of Operation Linebacker II, what B-52 aircrews came to call the “11-Day War.” If not for the bravery and resilience of those American airmen, the operation might have ended in disaster.

Linebacker I had been mounted in response to the earlier 1972 Easter Offensive, the North Vietnamese Army’s sudden invasion of South Vietnam, a campaign that failed largely because of massive B-52 bombing. It had been hoped the war could then be concluded through diplomacy, but by mid-December it was clear the enemy was stalling at the negotiating table. Forty years ago this month, President Richard M. Nixon’s patience ran out and he issued this order to the Joint Chiefs: “You are to commence at approximately 1200 Zulu, 18 December 1972, a three-day maximum effort, repeat maximum effort, of B-52/Tacair strikes in the Hanoi/Haiphong areas. Object is maximum destruction of selected targets….Be prepared to extend operations past three days, if directed.”

The president’s directive apparently came as a surprise to Strategic Air Command, which seemingly had no contingency plan compatible with Linebacker II’s objectives. SAC was forced to fall back on its eight-year-old Operation Arc Light tactics (interdiction of the Ho Chi Minh Trail, coupled with close ground support). Tactical Arc Light operations, however, had little in common with the strategic bombing objectives of Linebacker II. Worse, after eight years of Arc Light operations in relatively benign threat environments, SAC HQ had become complacent about the dangers in Route Pack Six, the section of the combat theater encompassing Hanoi and Haiphong. This last circumstance led to a rude awakening when America’s B-52 Stratofortress bombers proved shockingly vulnerable to the Soviet-built SA-2 Guideline surface-to-air missile (SAM) defense system.

The enormity of SAC’s planning errors was first exposed during the Day One (December 18-19) briefing at Andersen Air Force Base on Guam. The BUFF (Big Ugly Fat F—er) aircrews, still half-believing Secretary of State Henry Kissinger’s “peace is at hand” rhetoric of several weeks earlier, sat in stunned silence as the briefing officers flashed the primary target on the screen: Hanoi. Adam’s apples bobbed even faster when it was announced that “press-on rules” were in effect: “All bombers will press on, despite SAMS, MiGs or flak, if there is a reasonable chance to strike the target and recover at an allied base.”

There was worse news—the attack tactics themselves. All bombers were to depart from the same initial point (IP), make the same bomb run in single-file formation, fly exactly the same airspeeds, operate in exactly the same altitude blocks and maintain exactly the same spacing between each of the three-ship cells (one minute) and between each aircraft within the cells (15 seconds).

A B-52 copilot who flew Linebacker II sorties from Andersen, then-Captain Don Craig, wrote me that “We knew there were big planning flaws, starting with the long lines of bombers coming in the same route…and it was straight down Thud Ridge, for God’s sake….It looked very much like ducks in a shooting gallery.” B-52 radar navigator Captain Wilton Strickland, operating from the other B-52 base, at U-Tapao airfield in Thailand, concurred: “[The spacing] gave enemy air defenses plenty of time to track and fire on each aircraft as it came within range….Long before we entered the target area, they knew our precise altitude, spacing and approach route….”

Another concern was the bomb run no-evasion order issued by an Andersen wing commander (apparently on his own authority, on penalty of court-martial), despite previous evidence that if the B-52 was brought back straight and level prior to release, accuracy was not degraded. After aircrews repeatedly ignored the order on Days One and Two, without affecting bombing results, it was quietly rescinded.





_A fully loaded "BUFF" takes off from Andersen Air Base, Guam, which had 53 B-52Ds and 99 B-52Gs on station when Linebacker II started._


Most egregious, SAC planners mandated a “combat break” to the right after bomb release (post-target turn, or PTT), a nuclear-release procedure carried over into Arc Light (where it had been just as pointless; the PTT was designed solely for better survivability against a nuclear blast). During Arc Light, the PTT had rendered no harm. Over heavily defended Hanoi, however, it turned lethal. Not only were critical electronic countermeasures degraded, the 120-knot-plus jet stream tailwind that B-52s enjoyed on the bomb run became a 120-knot-plus headwind after the turn, resulting in a combined groundspeed reduction of nearly 250 knots.

Later, during the Day Two pre-mission briefing, a disgusted Captain Strickland, who was destined to fly six of the 11 Linebacker missions, could no longer keep silent: “Who is planning such stupid tactics,” he asked the briefers, “and why?” Their response: “The planning is being done at Omaha’s SAC HQ, and the common routes, altitudes and trail formations are used for ease of planning.”

“Well,” Strickland shot back, “the enemy is using your plan, along with the after-release turn and our slow withdrawal, for ease of tracking and shootdown!”

U-Tapao’s 17th Air Division commander, Brig. Gen. Glenn Sullivan, who was present during Strickland’s comments, was thinking along similar lines. Sullivan and his wing commanders had been carefully listening to aircrew feedback, though their requests for tactics changes had so far fallen on deaf ears. Sullivan was most upset about the PTT; after the battle he wrote a friend, “The post-target turn was the murder point.”

Nevertheless, good tactics or bad, the 300 BUFF in-theater aircrews still had to fly the missions in the 206 Stratofortresses available (Andersen had 53 B-52Ds and 99 B-52Gs on station; U-Tapao had 54 B-52Ds). On Day One, 129 B-52s launched from Andersen and U-Tapao in three massive waves spaced at four-hour intervals. Shortly after dark, the first wave (33 B-52Ds and 15 B-52Gs) arrived at their Laotian IP and wheeled southeast toward seven Hanoi targets—setting the stage for the biggest air battle since World War II. Although the BUFFs were the attack’s centerpiece, more than 100 additional U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine recon, radar jammer and fighter-bomber aircraft flew in support of the heavies or delivered their own assigned blows.

Twenty-one U-Tapao B-52Ds kicked things off, attacking Hanoi’s airfields. At least one MiG rose up in challenge, the enemy pilot taking up the customary “six” position behind a BUFF designated Brown Three. Tail gunner Staff Sgt. Sam Turner shot the MiG-21 down, the first ever air-to-air kill by a B-52. Shortly thereafter, Lilac Three was struck by a SAM while attacking the Kinh No complex. Although badly damaged, the bomber managed to limp back to U-Tapao. Charcoal One, a B-52G attacking the Yen Vien rail yards, was not as fortunate. Two SAMs struck from behind, and the bomber disintegrated. Three crewmen were killed in action; three became prisoners of war.

The second wave attacked around midnight. Peach Two entered the PTT and, slowed to a near-crawl by the 120-knot headwind, took a SAM hit in its left wing. The bomber made it back into Thailand, where all seven crew members bailed out and were rescued.

Rose One, a U-Tapao B-52D, led the third wave of 51 BUFFs in at 5 a.m. Bracketed by missiles, its jammers overwhelmed, the plane was hammered twice. One SAM blew a hole in the fuselage big enough for the navigator-bombardiers to see the external bomb racks. Moments later the cockpit was afire. Four crewmen were captured, with two KIA.

Day One ended with three Stratoforts shot down and two seriously damaged. Publicly, SAC put on a brave face; privately, its chieftains were aghast. They had completely underestimated the SAM threat. Worse, nothing could immediately be done about it—because of the long distances involved in operating from Guam, it had been necessary to order the Day Two bombers launched even before all the Day One aircraft returned.


On Day Two, 93 BUFFs attacked the same targets, using the same Day One tactics. Ivory One, piloted by Major John Dalton, led six B-52Ds against Radio Hanoi. While rolling into the PTT, his aircraft was struck by a missile, seemingly stopping the bomber in its tracks. “You could feel the concussion,” he told writer Marshall Michel, “then you heard it. I never realized you could hear them explode like that…you get static electricity raising the hair on your arms….” Dalton was in big trouble—his no. 5 engine had flamed out, then no. 6 caught fire. Both tip tanks were hit and spewing fuel, plus he was dealing with severe electrical and flight system problems. For 45 nerve-wracking minutes the crew staggered toward the Marine Corps base at Nam Phong, Thailand. Just before touchdown, Dalton lost most of his rudder control. Pulling the last rabbit out of his hat, he planted that giant BUFF on a narrow runway, saving the aircraft and crew. Major Dalton was awarded the Silver Star for his actions.







_people of Hanoi during the air battle_



Meanwhile, Strickland and his crew in Copper Two were pressing on against Radio Hanoi. Thirty seconds from release, Strickland’s electronic warfare officer (EWO) called, “SAM uplink!” A missile had them wired. Then the copilot yelled, “Visual SAM at 2 o’clock, I have the airplane!” and threw the big bomber into a steep right turn. There was a bright flash, a muffled explosion and the aircraft lurched, as if driving over a speed bump. EWO again: “SAM uplink, 9 o’clock!” The pilot responded: “Visual SAM to left, I have the airplane!” A hard steep left turn followed. Bright flash, another lurch. Somehow Strickland kept his crosshairs on Hanoi’s Paul Doumer Bridge, the offset aiming point. “Pilot, roll it out,” he ordered. “Center the PDI [pilot’s deflection indicator]!” The nav read the To Go (TG) meter, announcing, “10 seconds!” Strickland opened the bomb bay doors. The EWO cried out, “Two SAM uplinks, 12 o’clock!” Strickland responded, “Pilot, hold it straight and level!” The two missiles continued to home in on Copper Two. After what seemed an eternity, the TG ran down to zero. “Bombs away,” Strickland shouted, “and turn! Let’s get the hell out of here!” Another hard, shuddering right turn; the two SAMs just missed them. For their actions, all six crewmen received the Distinguished Flying Cross.

The Americans were lucky on Day Two: Only two B-52s were damaged and none lost. Breathing easier, SAC gave the go-ahead for Day Three, December 20-21, once again ordering up the same tactics as Days One and Two. But the inevitable bill had finally arrived; the Americans were about to face their darkest hour.





Salvos of _Soviet built SA-2 Surface-to-Air-Missiles were launched with a zeal that depleted supplies to the point that by the end of Linebacker II, the Vietnamese had few left. _



Ninety-nine B-52s struck on Day Three. Enemy SAM batteries, having at last figured out how to destroy the hated “Fatted Calves,” waited eagerly for the first wave to appear. As if on cue, the three bombers in Quilt cell arrived over the Yen Vien complex in their B-52Gs. (While the Arc Light B-52Ds had been refitted with the most up-to-date ECM jammers to counter Hanoi’s highly sophisticated air defense system, there had not been time to do the same with the U.S.-based Gs when they were rushed into the war during the 1972 Easter Offensive.) A missile promptly nailed Quilt Three during its PTT. Four crewmen became POWs, and another two were KIA.












North Vietnamese artillery during the battle



Shortly thereafter, during yet another harried post-release turn, Brass cell became separated. The enemy seized on the cell’s abrupt loss of groundspeed, its prominent radar return in the steep turn and collapse of mutual support radar jamming. Two SAMs slammed into Brass Two; miraculously, the entire crew successfully bailed out over the Marine base at Nam Phong. Orange Three also became isolated in its PTT and was nailed by two missiles. The aircraft fluttered out of control, exploded halfway to the ground and crashed spectacularly near Hanoi. Four crewmen perished and two became POWs—the last of the first wave casualties.

At roughly this point, a curious incident occurred. R.J. Smith, a grizzled electronic warfare officer credited with 506 Arc Light/Linebacker combat missions (possibly the record), took matters into his own hands. Configuring his countermeasures equipment just so, he hacked into the North Vietnamese ground control intercept network, whipped out his “lucky” whistle and let fly with a blast over Guard frequency—followed by an angry shout: “Time out!” Perhaps Smith’s unorthodox actions did confuse the enemy; there was an obedient pause in the SAM launches, and his crew successfully completed their bomb run. One thing was certain: EWO stock shot up to all time highs!

By that time, 27 second wave bombers were well on their way inbound, 12 of which were B-52Gs. While six of those Gs had some updated jamming equipment, the other six didn’t. With the hot Hanoi kitchen burning up the G-model birds, SAC pulled the plug by recalling the six unmodified Gs. The remaining six Gs and 15 Ds in the second wave unloaded on their targets and escaped without losses.

Four hours later, wave three attacked Hanoi’s Gia Lam rail yards. A SAM slammed into Straw Two, wounding the pilot and navigator. The tough B-52D managed to reach Laos, and five of its crew survived, but the radar nav was lost. Olive One was later hit over Kinh No repair complex during its post-release turn. Five of the seven crewmen were KIA; two became POWs. Minutes later, Tan Three took two SAMs, disintegrating so rapidly only the gunner survived. Brick Two, at the tail end of wave three, was in its PTT when a missile ripped into it. The D shook the hit off and got home, but that was the final straw: B-52 aircrews wanted nothing more to do with SAC’s deadly post-release turns.






Commander_-in-chief Vo Nguyen Giap discussed tactics to encounter US B52-air-strike in Hanoi in 1972_


Out of Day Three’s 99 bombers, four Gs and two Ds had been shot down, with another D seriously damaged—7 percent attrition, a completely unsustainable rate. The battle, indeed the war itself, suddenly hung in the balance. Great consternation gripped the leadership of both SAC at Omaha and the Eighth Air Force at Andersen. Fearing this indecision had created a leadership vacuum, U-Tapao’s General Sullivan made a risky decision. Without consulting his immediate superiors, he sent an urgent message directly to SAC commander in chief General J.C. Meyer in Omaha (copying Andersen), specifying the necessary changes: Vary the inbound routes and altitudes, eliminate the PTT and use a straight-ahead “feet-wet” exit out to the Gulf of Tonkin. Although angry at being bypassed, his Eighth Air Force commanders sent a “we agree” message to Meyer, who quickly ordered the changes. (Sullivan must have understood he’d fallen on his sword; despite his leading role in winning the war’s decisive battle, he was denied a second star and retired two years later.)

But how to implement those changes without creating an even bigger disaster? The size and scope of Linebacker II had given it an almost unchangeable momentum—even as Meyer made his decision, it was already bus time for Andersen’s Day Four crews.

Desperately short of options, SAC held back all Andersen bombers on Days Four and Five, buying time for essential analysis and planning. On Days Four through Seven, only 60 of the better-equipped B-52Ds were launched against North Vietnam (the more vulnerable Gs would never again be used over Hanoi).

Despite launching a much higher percentage of D models, BUFFs were still going down. On Day Four, while attacking Bac Mai airfield, Blue One was bracketed by a six-SAM salvo. With his aircraft burning fiercely but nearing “bombs away,” pilot John Yuill reluctantly hit the red abandon light. That intuitive decision proved providential; roughly a minute after the last crewman had bailed out, the aircraft exploded. Although several of the captured crew were wounded, all survived the war.

Day Five was a repeat of Day Four—though the attack shifted away from the crack Hanoi SAM batteries. U-Tapao sent up 30 B-52Ds against the less heavily defended but still lucrative targets at Haiphong Harbor—primarily railroad infrastructure and petroleum facilities. Only 43 SAMs came up, thanks to the element of surprise and excellent suppression work by 65 Navy, Marine and Air Force fighter/jammer aircraft. For the first time since the operation began, not a single B-52 received battle damage.

On Day Six, 30 bombers launched, 12 Ds from Andersen and 18 Ds from U-Tapao. The targets were three SAM sites and Haiphong’s Lang Dang rail yards. Again, the objectives were successfully struck, with no losses or aircraft damaged. SAC was finally getting its act together.

On Day Seven, 30 Ds launched against Hanoi, bombing the Thai Nguyen and Kep railroad yards. No aircraft were lost, though one was struck by flak, the only occasion enemy AAA scored a hit. MiGs engaged Black and Ruby cells; one bogey got careless behind Ruby Three and was shot down by Airman 1st Class Albert Moore, the second and final confirmed MiG kill by a B-52 tail gunner. As the last of the Day Seven bombers landed, the obligatory Christmas pause got underway.

SAC used that 36-hour reprieve to develop a comprehensive new battle plan. Day Eight, December 26, was to be the decisive engagement. That night 120 B-52s struck Hanoi and Haiphong in a simultaneous attack involving seven waves bombing 10 targets, with bombers crisscrossing at different altitudes and axes of attack. American ECM capability, long a chronic deficiency, had been significantly enhanced via greater knowledge of enemy frequencies and techniques. Most dramatically, all 8,000 bombs were released during a single 15-minute timeframe.

Nevertheless, the North Vietnamese fought back hard. Shortly before bombs away, a missile struck Ebony Two, killing the pilot, though the copilot and radar nav held everything together through the bomb drop. Then another SAM struck. With unmistakable finality, Ebony Two flipped on its back and turned supernova, lighting up the sky for 100 miles in every direction. Thousands of gallons of burning JP-4 hung in the sky as if suspended, while shattered remnants of the great ship slowly fluttered to earth like dead leaves. Two crewmen were KIA; four became POWs.

Minutes later, Ash One’s jamming came up short and it took a missile. The crew made a valiant attempt to land their crippled B-52D at U-Tapao, but lost the struggle when an attempted go-around resulted in a departure stall. Only the gunner and a wounded copilot survived the ensuing crash. Nearly three decades later that same copilot, Defense Intelligence Agency analyst and retired Lt. Col. Robert Hymel, was killed when hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001.

SAC made Day Nine a repeat of Eight, albeit a scaled-back version. Due to maintenance issues, Andersen and U-T could raise only 30 bombers each—but halving the force didn’t have as great an impact as might be presumed: SAC was already running out of targets.

December 27 was the final day of SAMs coming in salvos, though the BUFFs were not out of the woods yet. Cobalt One was releasing bombs on its Trung Quang target when it took a direct hit that killed the navigator and the EWO. The remaining four crewmen would be captured.

Soon after that Captain John Mize in Ash Two, whose aircraft had already been hit by enemy fire on two previous sorties, was struck by a missile, the detonation wounding everyone on board. Despite Mize’s wounds and severely damaged aircraft, he somehow manhandled the doomed bomber into Laos, electing to stay with it until his entire crew had successfully bailed out before ejecting. For his heroism, Mize was awarded the Air Force Cross.

Day Ten arrived, and only a few SAMs came up; no B-52s were lost or damaged. Everyone took pleasure hearing the last of the airborne commander’s exit roll call:

“Orange cell, out with three.”

“Quilt, out with three.”

“Violet, out with three.”

On Day Eleven, December 29, 60 B-52s attacked Hanoi’s storage facilities and what was left of the Lang Dang rail yards—in all probability the last massed heavy bomber strike the world will ever see. While the raid was in progress, the North Vietnamese signaled the White House that they were ready to return to the Paris peace table. Before the last B-52 landed, Operation Linebacker II stood down.






_on the way to targets in North Vietnam, A B-52 takes on a load of fuel from a KC-135 tanker_



President Nixon’s 11-Day War had paid off. As is so often the case with armed conflict, the battle may have turned on circumstances no one could possibly have foreseen. North Vietnam made the crucial mistake of gathering all its eggs in one basket; the final defense of its homeland had been left primarily to a limited supply of Soviet SAMs. In the heat of battle, the North Vietnamese then compounded that error by succumbing to zeal and expending missiles wholesale, often in salvoes of six or eight against a single target. As a result, they literally ran out of ammunition. In a final irony, a chilling argument can be made that SAC’s poor tactics—in essence using the B-52s as “missile bait”—had actually worked to the Americans’ advantage.

The Paris Peace Accords were signed in January 1973. By April all 591 of America’s known POWs were released. That August, with the Paris agreements seemingly being honored by Hanoi, the B-52s flew their last combat mission, and Operation Arc Light was terminated. For the Americans, the Vietnam War was finally over.




_Robert O. Harder flew 145 combat missions in Vietnam as a B-52D navigator-bombardier. For further reading, see his book _Flying From the Black Hole: The B-52 Navigator-Bombardiers of Vietnam_ (Naval Institute Press will release a new edition in March); _

The 11 Days of Christmas_, by Marshall Michel; and _Boeing B-52_, by Walter J. Boyne. An online cockpit audiotape offers a ringside seat to the December 26 raid. Go to YouTube and search “B-52 Over Hanoi” for five separate links._

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## Aqsuperman

One of the most numerous weapons where space is limited 

A B-10 RCL


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## Viet

What comes after Quang Ninh Airport, the new to be built airport in the northern theatre?

It is Lao Cai Airport.


Vietnam: Vingroup acquires 30% of furniture firm, Sun Group to invest in two properties - DealStreetAsia

_
Sun Group has also proposed to invest VND3.5 trillion ($160 million) in the Lao Cai airport project, which is slated to have a capacity of nearly 1.6 million passengers and 2,880 tonnes of cargo per year. The airport will serve domestic and military flights._











Lao Cai will have one 1,800m runway with a width of 30m. again, the airport primary use is both civil and military purposes.


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## Aqsuperman

VPA limited-standard sidearm, K-54 and a its copy variant


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## Viet

Saigon. New men for the national service.

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## Aqsuperman

Some training tool and equipments............check those cute tanks :v

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## Viet

Members of Central Military Commission tour some training facilities.


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## Viet

some army facilities even produce household stuffs


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## Viet

if one puts the usual empty phrases aside, I would interprete the words exchanged between the two parties as a Non-Aggression-Agreement. the chinese obviously understand there is a limit of their game.




*Xi meets special envoy of Vietnam's communist party chief*
(Xinhua) Updated: 2016-03-01 02:40







_Chinese President Xi Jinping (R), who is also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, meets with Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) international department chief Hoang Binh Quan, the special envoy of Vietnam's communist party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, in Beijing, capital of China, Feb 29, 2016. [Photo/Xinhua]_


BEIJING -- Chinese President Xi Jinping met with Hoang Binh Quan, the special envoy of Vietnam's communist party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, on Monday, pledging to boost party-to-party relationship and bilateral ties.

Quan conveyed a message from Nguyen Phu Trong to Xi.

In his message, the general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee said the two nations are close neighbors that share the same political system and have many common fundamental interests. Developing a stable, reciprocal and cooperative bilateral relationship is both a historical responsibility and a realistic requirement, and is in the fundamental and long-term interests of the two peoples as well.

In his message, Nguyen Phu Trong said party-to-party ties had always played a leading role in bilateral ties and he called on the two sides to fully implement the consensus reached by their leaders, enhance high-level visits, cooperate more in economy, sub-national communication and people-to-people exchanges and keep peace and stability on the sea, so as to contribute to regional and world peace and prosperity.

Xi, who is also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, said it is an important tradition for the chiefs of CPC and the CPV to send special envoys to communicate with each other.

He noted that the two parties have carried on the tradition after the 12th National Congress of the CPV, which is of great significance for enhancing political mutual trust.

Xi said China and Vietnam share a common destiny, so do the CPC and the CPV. Developing bilateral ties conforms to the fundamental interests of the two countries and their people.

The president called on both sides to adhere to guidelines of long-term stability with ties underscored by comprehensive cooperation as well as the spirit of good neighbors, good friends, good comrades and good partners.

China is willing to work with Vietnam to maintain the frequency of high-level visits, improve communication on party building, and promote pragmatic cooperation, he said.

Xi also called for the proper handling of differences for the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership to develop in a sustained, healthy and steady way.

Quan, who is also CPV international department chief, briefed Xi on the CPV 12th National Congress.


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## Aqsuperman

The normal ammuniton load out (on the outside) should provide troops with 5 magazine plus 2 nades. I guess we will need to keep our supllies units near


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## Viet

Daily life


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## Viet

more images of Dinh Tien Hoang Frigate 011 during the International Fleet Review 2016 in India


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## Rechoice

VPA regular troupe headed to border in 1979 after Chinese opened the first shots.


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## Aqsuperman

Bm-21 fire-control system. Not really the most accurate of all but pretty effective for saturation barrage


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## Aqsuperman

Gas mask troops in training. No shoes indicates Special Purpose unit ? :v


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## Viet

Interesting, hardly 3 weeks passed when the VN government urged the US to do a more active role, "more efficient actions" in the SC Sea, the US responds by sending a small carrier strike group to the region.

The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China



World | Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:38pm IST
Related: World

Vietnam PM wants stronger U.S. role in South China Sea | Reuters

HANOI







_Nguyen Tan Dung, Prime Minister of Vietnam listens to U.S. President Barack Obama speak during a 10-nation Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) summit in Rancho Mirage, California February 15, 2016.

Reuters/Mike Blake_


Vietnam's prime minister has urged a greater U.S. role in preventing militarisation and island-building in the South China Sea, the government said on Tuesday, in a rare call for Washington's support to curb Beijing's maritime expansionism.

During a summit of Southeast Asian countries in California on Monday, premier Nguyen Tan Dung suggested to U.S. President Barack Obama that Washington uses a stronger voice and "more practical and more efficient actions", in comments likely to rile China.

Tension has spiked since Beijing's construction of seven islands in the Spratly archipelago.

"Prime Minister Dung suggested the United States has a stronger voice and more practical and more efficient actions requesting termination of all activities changing the status quo," the government said on its news website.

The statement did not specifically name China, but it said Dung was referring especially to "large-scale construction of artificial islands" and "militarisation".

With a large U-shaped line on its official maps, China claims most of the South China Sea. Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, Brunei and Vietnam have rival claims.

Obama and allies from Southeast Asia will turn their attention to China on Tuesday on the second day of a summit intended to improve trade and provide a united front on maritime disputes with Beijing.






_Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung (right) meets US President Barack Obama at the ASEAN-US Summit in Sunnylands, California on Monday. — VNA/VNS Photo Duc Tam_


Whereas China accuses the United States of seeking maritime hegemony in Asia, Washington says its interest in the South China Sea is preserving freedom of navigation.

In recent months, the United States raised the stakes by sending guided-missile destroyers USS Lassen and USS Curtis Wilbur close to disputed areas occupied by Beijing.

Though communist Vietnam routinely opposes China's activities in disputed waters, its leaders are usually wary of provoking a giant neighbour with which it shares over $60 billion of annual trade and maintains close ideological ties.

Dung has earned popularity in Vietnam for pursuing stronger U.S. trade and defence links and for taking a tougher line against China, compared to measured responses by other Vietnamese leaders to Beijing's assertiveness.

Dung was controversially overlooked by the politburo last month in its nomination for party chief, meaning the end of his political career when his term ends this year, posing a possible blow for Washington.

Dung also asked Obama to fully lift a lethal arms embargo on Vietnam, which would be an "important way to strengthen political trust", the government website quoted him saying.

Obama will visit Vietnam in May, the White House said.

(Reporting by Martin Petty; Editing by Simon Cameron-Moore)


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## Viet

Ancient Vietnamese gunpower weapons


source

*Chinese Military Technology
and Dai Viet: c. 1390-1497*


*Chinese-style Firearms in Dai Viet (Vietnam)
The Archaeological Evidence*

by Sun Laichen

Asia Research Institute
National University of Singapore




www.ari.nus.edu.sg/wps/wps03_011.pdf

www.aafv.org/.../*Sun*Laichen_*Chinese*StyleFirearms



























Chinese-style Firearms in Dai Viet (Vietnam)
The Archaeological Evidence

by Sun Laichen


Cannon


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## Viet

Entertain the troops

Lorrae Desmond performs in front of hundreds of Australian soldiers at Nui Dat in September 1969. A popular figure among the troops, Desmond made five trips to Vietnam. [AWM EKN/69/0189/VN]










on the battlefield. 60,000 personnel from Australia participated the Vietnam war. 500 servicemen lost their lives, some 3,000 were wounded


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## Viet

*Battle of Cao Bằng *(1979)

Vietnam´s Ministry of Education considers adding the battle of the Paracel Islands 1974 and China's 1979 invasion to school history books. it is time for those, who sacrificed, have a voice.

the troops marching to the front line. the city of Cao Bang.








we recall the days of February of 1979, when the PLA amassed 5 armies: 12th, 20th, 41th, 42nd and 50th Army, under the command of General Xu Shiyou, totally 200,000 men launched a massive offensive on Cao Bằng. the city, since ancient times, is a stronghold of the Vietnamese army.

Vietnam border guards and local militia men and women were the first, who braced the storm, the brunt of Chinese aggression, holding the enemy until re-enforcement arrived. they came in the forms of two VPA divisions 311th and 316th.

despite overwhelmed and outnumbered by the PLA, the Vietnamese defenders put all into the fight resulting into the bloody battle of Cao Bang.

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## Aqsuperman

Hwasong 6 , along with Scud made up VN tactical missiles units............no idea about strategic unit though :v


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Hwasong 6 , along with Scud made up VN tactical missiles units............no idea about *strategic* unit though :v


such missiles as scud are for tactical mission. not strategic. actually little of value, even if we can produce 1,000 pieces and fire them on our enemy. well, unless we can improve the range, accuracy and payload. copying the technology from the North Koreans. possibly later with nuclear warheads.

changing topic. this news brings a smile to my face. a Japanese submarine, probably Uzushio class, is scheduled to pay a visit to the Cam Ranh bay. I believe that will be the first time ever. the sub will come with two accompanied warships.


Japanese submarine to visit Philippines: sources| Reuters

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## Viet

*Cam Ranh Bay*

The first part of the new Cam Ranh International Port is complete and inaugurated at a ceremony on March 8.

This new facility is built to handle foreign vessels. It is capable of receiving 185 ships each year, and is designed to protect ships against 8-level wind and storms. can host 18 ships at any one time, vessel up to 110,000 DWT. that means the port can even host US aircraft carriers like the actual Nimitz class.









The bay in brief: it is surrounded by the Cam Ranh peninsula in the East and the mountain in the South. The two sea mouths communicate with the sea: Large Mouth and Little Mouth. about 60 km2 in area, average depth 18 - 30m.


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## Aqsuperman

Turn out that we still retain these ASU-85 lol :v Probably for driver practice or infantry support


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## Viet

London, March 7. Vietnam-UK Strategic Dialogue

what the Joint communiqué has not mentioned is the implementation of the first phase of the Vietnam-UK University in Da Nang city and Vietnam welcomes UK´s presence in Asia-Pacific. translating: UK warships and aircraft carriers are welcome in the SC Sea.









Joint communiqué on fifth UK-Vietnam Strategic Dialogue - News stories - GOV.UK
Joint communiqué on fifth UK-Vietnam Strategic Dialogue

Minister Hugo Swire and Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs Bui Thanh Son co-chaired the fifth UK-Vietnam Strategic Dialogue in London.







Foreign Office Minister of State Hugo Swire and Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs Bui Thanh Son co-chaired the fifth UK-Vietnam Strategic Dialogue on 7 March 2016 in London as part of the bilateral Strategic Partnership signed in 2010.

The Dialogue is a chance to evaluate the common goals of our bilateral relationship and make recommendations for strengthening the strategic partnership in priority areas such as politics, diplomacy, trade and investment, education, training, security and defence.

Both sides welcomed official visit to Vietnam by Prime Minister David Cameron and the strengthening of the strategic partnership. They agreed to continue visits and delegation exchanges between the two countries. Vietnam has been proactively pushing forward its international integration; and the UK continues to enhance its relationship with Vietnam and South East Asia.

The UK and Vietnam committed to increase cooperation in the multilateral fora and in international organisations, including the United Nations, ASEM, EU-ASEAN, especially on issues such as international law, climate change and sustainable development. Vice Minister Bui Thanh Son welcomed the UK’s contribution to the preservation of peace, collaboration and development in the region.

With regard to economic cooperation, both sides weclomed the impressive bilateral trade and investment in 2015, during which bilateral trade reached $5.4 billion USD in 2015, an increase of 25% compared to 2014. UK investment into Vietnam reached $4.7 billion USD, ranking second among EU member states . Both sides agreed to continue cooperation in economics, trade and investment; enabling companies from both countries to access investment and business market potential in each country. The two sides reiterated their support for the signing and ratification of EU-Vietnam Free Trade Agreement (FTA) and realising the opportunities this offered. Vietnam welcomed the launch of the new Prosperity Fund.

Both parties emphasised the importance of education and training - one of the priority areas in the Strategic Partnership. The two sides agreed to continue close partnership to increase education effectiveness through activities such as: implementing the Vietnam-UK Institute for Research and Executive Education; foster the establishment of the Vietnam National Testing Center, to collaborate towards enhancing skills development and quality assurance; and improve implementation of the Newton Fund. Both sides acknowledged the contribution from UK education providers, including the British Council, and agreed to establish the relevant framework of operations for these organisations.

Both sides welcomed the positive progress in defence cooperation, especially after the establishment of respective Defence Attaché Offices in Hanoi and London; and agreed to continue defence cooperation on training, defence industry, maintain maritime peace and security.

On security, both sides welcomed the close collaboration in information sharing, technical assistance in preventing organised crime; committed to collaborating in tackling high-tech crime, cyber security, money laundering and tackling illegal migration and human trafficking.

On international and regional issues, the two sides discussed the recent developments in the Middle East, and regional issues in Europe and Asia as well as current situation in the South China Sea. Both sides shared the view that the maintenance of peace, stability, safety, and freedom of navigation in the region is the common interest of the international community. Both sides underlined their shared position that territorial disputes in the region should be solved peacefully, in line with the international law. The UK reaffirmed its position in accordance with the Vietnam – EU Joint Declaration on the South China Sea and between ASEAN-EU Joint Declaration on the South China Sea.

Discussions were conducted in an atmosphere of constructive and mutual understanding, with the aim of achieving shared goals and enhancing the bilateral relationship.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Coast Guard*

Launching Metal Shark Patrol Boats for the Coast Guard. In total 30 high-speed vessels, 45 defiant class. Built by Metal Shark Company, Franklin, Louisiana.


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## Viet

*Bell Helicopter and Vietnam Helicopter Corporation sign Memorandum of Understanding to strengthen cooperation in Vietnam*


Bell Helicopter Press Release
2016/03/08

Bell Helicopter, a Textron Inc. company, has announced it has signed an agreement with Vietnam Helicopter Corporation (VNH) to pursue growing opportunities in the Vietnamese market.






_VNH leadership joined Bell Helicopter at the company’s global headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas, to sign the agreement. Bell Helicopter Photo_


VNH leadership joined Bell Helicopter at the company’s global headquarters in Fort Worth, Texas, to sign the agreement.

“We were delighted to host the Vietnam Helicopter Corporation leadership at our global headquarters and showcase our facility and state-of-the-art technology,” said Patrick Moulay, Bell Helicopter’s vice president of global sales and marketing. “VNH is a prestigious operator, and we look forward to strengthening our cooperation in the region and furthering our support of current and future customers.”

As a leading helicopter service provider in South East Asia with more than 30 years of experience, VNH provides a range of services including offshore transport, tourism, charter flights, Missing in Action program, search-and-rescue, as well as maintenance and training for pilots and technicians.

“This is a key relationship for Bell Helicopter,” added Moulay. “VNH will provide a wealth of customer knowledge and technical experience in Vietnam to our future customers and this signing reinforces our commitment to Vietnam and increases our level of support throughout the region.”

The representatives from VNH were given a tour through the Bell Helicopter’s global headquarters as well as an exclusive viewing of the Bell 525 Relentless flight test vehicle at the company’s XworX facility in Arlington, Texas.

Bell Helicopter and Vietnam Helicopter Corporation sign Memorandum of Understanding to strengthen cooperation in Vietnam| Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry



--
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Bell Helicopter is the producer of one of world's most advanced attack helicopters: Bell AH-1Z.
I hope Barack Obama brings a squadron of Bell AH-1Z, when he comes visiting Vietnam in Mai this year


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## Viet

*Vietnam Unveils New Port Facility For Foreign Warships in Cam Ranh Bay*
Hanoi inaugurates a much-awaited international port facility along the South China Sea.







_A U.S. Military Sealift Command ship at anchor while undergoing a routine seven-day maintenance availability in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam in August 2011. Image Credit: Flickr/US Pacific Fleet_



By Prashanth Parameswaran
March 10, 2016


On Tuesday, Vietnam inaugurated an international port facility capable of receiving foreign warships at Cam Ranh Bay along the South China Sea.

An opening ceremony was held to mark the completion of the first construction phase of the facility, called Cam Ranh International Port, located in Cam Ranh Bay, a deep-water harbor in central Vietnam along the South China Sea. The ceremony was attended by Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang along with several high-ranking military leaders.

The much-anticipated move, which was initially approved by Vietnam’s defense ministry back in September 2014, is part of an ongoing effort by Hanoi to build a new dual-use facility that can accommodate and service foreign ships. The port facility would allow Vietnam to both boost its commercial attractiveness as a hub for ships as well as increase naval engagements with foreign countries amid China’s growing assertiveness in the South China Sea.

“The inauguration of the port will not only support nation building and its protection but also make it one of Vietnam’s leading deep-sea ports and supply service areas,” Sang said in his remarks at the ceremony according to _Vietnam News_.

Several countries had already expressed interest in potential access to the facility even before its completion. In 2012, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta said during an historic visit to Cam Ranh Bay that access for U.S. naval ships into this facility is “a key component” of the U.S.-Vietnam relationship. The United States had used Cam Ranh Bay as a base during the Vietnam War, before the then-Soviet Union leased it following the end of the war in 1975.






_State President Truong Tan Sang at the grand opening ceremony of the Cam Ranh international port in Khanh Hoa Province, Vietnam, March 8, 2016. Photo: Tuoi Tre_






_VN State President Truong Tan Sang shakes hands a navy officer at the opening ceremony of Cam Ranh International Port in Khanh Hoa Province on March 8, 2016. Photo: Tran Dang_


But while U.S.-Vietnam defense relations have intensified over the past few years, Washington is still seeking the ability for U.S. naval vessels to make port calls or secure access to Cam Ranh Bay (See: “What’s Next for US-Vietnam Relations?”). U.S. president Barack Obama is expected to visit Vietnam in May (See: “Obama Will Visit Vietnam in May 2016 to Boost Ties”).

Apart from the United States, last year, an agreement was also reached between Vietnam and Japan for Japanese vessels to make port calls in Cam Ranh Bay (See: “Japan Warships Could Visit Vietnam Naval Base Near South China Sea in 2016”). As I noted then, the move was just the latest in a series of steps the two sides have taken to boost their defense relationship. Earlier this week, reports suggested that two Japanese warships would sail to Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Bay in April after first arriving in Subic Bay in the Philippines, another former U.S. base (See: “Japanese Submarine to Visit Philippines Amid South China Sea Tensions”).

Vietnamese defense officials, keen to preserve the country’s key objective of diversifying and multilateralizing its foreign relations and avoid antagonizing China, have repeatedly stressed the dual-use nature of the facility (despite the often singular emphasis on the military component) and that it would be open to all – not just a few – countries. They have also emphasized that the new port facility is separate from the country’s naval base, which is also located in Cam Ranh.






_State President Truong Tan Sang (R, 7th) and other senior officials perform the ribbon-cutting rite as part of the grand opening ceremony of the Cam Ranh international port in Khanh Hoa Province, Vietnam, March 8, 2016. Photo: _Tuoi Tre



Though details of the new facility have not been publicly disclosed, _The Diplomat_ understands that it has piers that will be able to receive aircraft carriers as well as submarines. Other facilities, including a repair base, warehouse, and an international maritime exhibition center are also expected to be built.

There has been no public confirmation on the final date for the completion of the second phase of the project. But Vietnamese officials, including President Sang himself, have unsurprisingly sought to emphasize the less controversial commercial component of the port facility in public remarks, including its ability to attract commercial ships for repair and refueling and becoming a model for future ports.






_Cam Ranh International Port. Photo: Tuoi Tre_


“We must promote the Cam Ranh international port to the world to attract major shipping brands to come to Cam Ranh for maintenance, repair, and refueling, including fresh water and food,” Sang said in his address at the opening ceremony.

According to official estimates, the total investment for the project is around two trillion dong ($89.7 million), with a quarter of that coming from PetroVietnam and the rest from Saigon New Port Corporation. Upon completion, the port, expected to be the largest in Vietnam by wharf length, will serve as a key naval maintenance and logistics facility for foreign warships, handling 18 ships at a time and receiving 185 ships annually.


Vietnam Unveils New Port Facility For Foreign Warships in Cam Ranh Bay | The Diplomat


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## Viet

*Navy Training Sailing Ship "Le Quy Don"*

Senior Lieutenant General Mai Quang Phan on March 10 attended the ceremonial ship launching for the Le Quy Don. 950 tons, length 67 metres, Caterpillar C32 engine, top speed 12 knots without using the sails, built by the Gdansk based Marine Projects Ltd (Poland).
_
_


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## Aqsuperman

So we put a remote weapon station...........on a training vessel...........sound legit :v lol

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> So we put a remote weapon station...........on a training vessel...........sound legit :v lol



Is this a Vietnamese made gun?


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## Aqsuperman

That wouble be nice but too good to be true  My guess is a Poland design with a Polish-made NSV whigh we have ample supply of ammuniton........Tell you the truth, i feel that we are in a RTS game and after spending all of our money on weaponry, our base lay several level lower. Put a thing like this on a sail traing vessel......its just.....lol :v


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## Viet

Nguyễn Thị Hằng, born 1993, the beautiful speaker on Vietnam Army television. Not too bad

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## Viet

In an interview with People's Army Newspaper Online, Colonel _Lê Kiêm Toàn _(Airborne Transport Brigade 918) reveals, this year 2016 the unit will receive additional aircraft of types C-295 and a new generation of cargo plane: NC212i.

NC212i is a light transport aircraft, an upgraded version from maritime patrol transport aircraft C212-400. the plane is primarily designed as transporting cargo aircraft. total weight of about 2.7 tons, top speed 370kmh, range 1,800km. it can participate in search and rescue operations. also, for military missions it can carry a bomb load of 500kg, rocket pods and automatic machine guns.









NC212i reportedly comes from Indonesia. such type below see picture.

@madokafc

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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> *Navy Training Sailing Ship "Le Quy Don"*



People may think it a waste of money to buy a sailing ship (with zero fighting capability) but all great modern navy in the world have sailing ships for training cadets. Those sailing ships are been use to train future navy officers about life at sea, navigation, seamanship, ship and boat maneuvering, line handling, sailing, first aid, weather patterns, damage control, engineering and more. ...They also stand watches in the engine room, on the bridge, on deck.. It like a navy college at sea, going back to root of sea vessel and learning the basic first before big modern ships. Viet Nam by buying one, show it commitment into building a great navy force.

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## Aqsuperman

Our soon-to-be former prime minister back in his army day


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> People may think it a waste of money to buy a sailing ship (with zero fighting capability) but all great modern navy in the world have sailing ships for training cadets. Those sailing ships are been use to train future navy officers about life at sea, navigation, seamanship, ship and boat maneuvering, line handling, sailing, first aid, weather patterns, damage control, engineering and more. ...They also stand watches in the engine room, on the bridge, on deck.. It like a navy college at sea, going back to root of sea vessel and learning the basic first before big modern ships. Viet Nam by buying one, show it commitment into building a great navy force.


well said. the german navy has das segelschulschiff "Gorch Fock". I would like to see if we cooperate with them.


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## Viet

Stiring much controversy among Cambodian opposition politicians and nationalists: 

Vietnam´s 15th Army Corps, which stations across the border in Gia Lai province, leases nearly 40,000 ha for rubber plantation. the Central government of Cambodia under PM Hun Sen backs the deal, I assume, not because of economic but strategic interest. 


Grand Concessions | The Cambodia Daily


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## William Hung

The guns on the sail training ship is for protection against pirates :v

Better safe than sorry.

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## Mokaman

@Viet Do you know this American USCGC Eagle was actually a Nazi German sail training ship named _Horst Wessel. _The American took the ship from the Germans as a war reparation, it still in service today. It the sister ship of the Gorch Fock* *

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## MacanJawa

did vietnam have modern tanks? i see sophisticated missile defence system but no modern armor


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## Aqsuperman

MacanJawa said:


> did vietnam have modern tanks? i see sophisticated missile defence system but no modern armor



Well the currently most modern is some late-variant of T-62. The Armored Corp got a little resource since Navy and Airforce took most of the budget. Still, im hopeful that we have some secret bath of new tanks waiting to be revealed to te public when the time is ripe. 








Live firing excercise


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> @Viet Do you know this American USCGC Eagle was actually a Nazi German sail training ship named _Horst Wessel. _The American took the ship from the Germans as a war reparation, it still in service today. It the sister ship of the Gorch Fock* *
> View attachment 298397


oha...did not know that.

actually germany can be a great seafarer nation, since they lost the two major wars, WW I and II, their navy becomes a shadow of the past. the deusche marine has corvettes, frigates, and diesel submarines, but no destroyer, aircraft carrier nor nuclear submarine. few days ago, a delegation under the state secretary of defence ministry Ralf Brauksiepe paid a visit to the defence ministry. as far as it is understood, the germans have made offer in training to our army and the navy in particulary. maybe we will see our cadets aboard of the Gork Fock in the future.

Vietnam und Deutschland verstärken Verteidigungszusammenarbeit | Nachrichten - VOV5


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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> oha...did not know that.
> 
> actually germany can be a great seafarer nation, since they lost the two major wars, WW I and II, their navy becomes a shadow of the past. the deusche marine has corvettes, frigates, and diesel submarines, but no destroyer, aircraft carrier nor nuclear submarine. few days ago, a delegation under the state secretary of defence ministry Ralf Brauksiepe paid a visit to the defence ministry. as far as it is understood, the germans have made offer in training to our army and the navy in particulary. maybe we will see our cadets aboard of the Gork Fock in the future.
> 
> Vietnam und Deutschland verstärken Verteidigungszusammenarbeit | Nachrichten - VOV5



The Germans have a century expertise and experience in the submarine and tanks fields to name a few. If you ask me, I would really like if the Germans sell some Leopard 2 tanks to Viet Nam at friend price. Or helping VPA to purchase the old Leopard 1 generations would be good too, Canada will retire all it fleet of Leopard 1A2 this year. Leopard 1A2 is much superior tank than the T-72 ... And Leopard 2 is among best top 3 tank in the world ....Here a Canadian Leopard 1 A2 to be put into retirement....So much souvenir!

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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> The Germans have a century expertise and experience in the submarine and tanks fields to name a few. If you ask me, I would really like if the Germans sell some Leopard 2 tanks to Viet Nam at friend price. Or helping VPA to purchase the old Leopard 1 generations would be good too, Canada will retire all it fleet of Leopard 1A2 this year. Leopard 1A2 is much superior tank than the T-72 ... And Leopard 2 is among best top 3 tank in the world ....Here a Canadian Leopard 1 A2 to be put into retirement....So much souvenir!
> View attachment 298744


also, I like to see our army to increase firepower by acquiring german military technology, but the chance to get it is close to zero. or at least for now. unless:

- the US ends the arms embargo.
- Germany follows Japan arms reforms, loosing export restrictions, allowing transferring weaponry not only to NATO countries but to "friendly" countries as well. Vietnam can be classified as friendly nation.

or my favourite choice:

- VN joins the NATO.

sure, the leopard 2 panzer is one of the best tanks in the world. a balance of firepower, thrust, amored and speed.


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## Aqsuperman

Well no heavy European weapon until Uncle Sam kindly lif the embargo.........How about se sent somebody to Iraq and Syria to get some black market stuff eh ? :v 

dont know the name but sure look dangerous


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## Viet

pictures from the Orient

Tehran, Iran, March 13, 2016. Vietnam state president and his spouse arrived Tehran to a state visit.








Rouhani (L) and his Vietnamese counterpart Tan Sang inspect the guard of honor during an official welcoming ceremony in Tehran on March 14, 2016. (Photo by Mehr News Agency)












PressTV-Iran, Vietnam to raise trade ties to $2bn


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## Viet

on this day 28 years ago...



Last update 14:47 | 14/03/2016
Dtinews

*Veteran soldier recalls battle in Spratly Islands*

_Veteran Nguyen Van Thong, 52, from Bo Trach District in Quang Binh Province recalled the battle against the Chinese invaders at Johnson South Reef in the Spratly Archipelago on March 14, 1988._






_Nguyen Van Thong showed his leg with injuries from the battle with Chinese invaders on March 14, 1988._


Thong, who still suffers from his war wounds, lives with his wife and two children in a poor fishing village. He still clearly remembers the morning when Vietnamese ship HQ604 was attacked and sunk by a Chinese vessel, leaving 64 of his comrades died. He and eight other Vietnamese marine soldiers were detained by Chinese army.

"It was about 6 am when about 50 Chinese soldiers holding AK machineguns surrounded the Vietnamese flagstaff which was being defending by a circle of Vietnamese soldiers. One of our soldiers, Tran Van Phuong, was killed and some others wounded when trying to protect the Vietnamese flag.”

"After that, the Chinese attacked and sunk HQ 604, killing dozens of other Vietnamese combatants," Thong continued. "The battle ended at around 12pm when the Chinese left the island. I and eight other Vietnamese soldiers were wounded and taken prisoner by the Chinese. We were kept in prison for over three years before being released in 1991."

Over the past years, the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs has repeatedly underlined Vietnam’s sovereignty over both the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos in the East Sea.

A* memorial park* for 64 Vietnamese naval soldiers killed in the 1988 battle against the Chinese has been built on Johnson South Reef.

The Spratly and Paracel islands are administered by Khanh Hoa Province and the central Vietnamese city of Da Nang.

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## Viet

Visiting Vietnam´s closest ally: Laos

Lieutenant General Suvon Luongbunmi , Chief of the General Staff of the Lao People’s Army receives General Do Ba Ty (left), Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army — Photo qdnd.vn








Singapore Feb 29. Sr. Lt. General Nguyen Chi Vinh pays a visit to Singapore Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen.
Not much details revealed. I assume Singapore was given the go-ahead to negotiate on behalf of the Asean group the code of conduct in South China Sea with the Chinese.


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## Viet

Russia's Defense Ministry confirms, Il-78 tanker aircraft take off the Cam Ranh Bay since in 2014, enabling the refuelling Russian fighter aircraft, especially of nuclear-capable TU-95 "Bear" strategic bombers.

I think it will continue, even with our ever warmer relationship to Washington.

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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> also, I like to see our army to increase firepower by acquiring german military technology, but the chance to get it is close to zero. or at least for now. unless:
> 
> - the US ends the arms embargo.
> - Germany follows Japan arms reforms, loosing export restrictions, allowing transferring weaponry not only to NATO countries but to "friendly" countries as well. Vietnam can be classified as friendly nation.



Why saying zero chance to sell German weapons to Viet Nam? Germany already sold a lot weapons to no-NATO members already. Leopard 2 and other German IFV are sold to Indonesia, also Qatar, Singapore, Chili are all operating Leopard 2 now. They even modified the Indonesian Leopard 2 for tropical climate. And we only talking about German tanks here, the list of no-Nato countries operating German weaponries will be much longer...


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## initial_d

The german will sold their weapons product to any country as long that country are not among that being black list on humanitarian abuse or put on UN embargoes, beside their armor (tank, ifv,apc, artilery etc) the german also sell their warship and submarind product


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## Jäger

Germany sells to countries who aren't on Human rights violations sanctions or stuff like that. my best opinion or how you want to say, Germany has sold pretty much to almost every nation there might be a chance for Vietnam to acquire stuff even if it is just firearms


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## Mokaman

@initial_d @Bundeswehr Exactly, Germany and others western countries will sale weapons to any countries with money (beside some black list countries like obviously North Korea, Syria, Sudan, ect...). About human rights, as long as those human abuses are not on TV news 24/7 and not too harsh & no death, the sale will go on. Leopard 2 for Saudi Arabia was put on hold because of news on human rights abuse during repression in Bahrain. For Viet Nam, the only obstacle I see is about the political prisoners and that problem will be easily solve if Viet Nam just release few political prisoners to satisfy the western countries and the deals will happen. And right now, there is plenty of western countries trying to sale weapons to Viet Nam: Gripen, Sigma corvettes to name a few...They won't try sale to Viet Nam if they know there is a ban. USA already start to supply some military equipments (like those _Shark_ 165 Defiant patrol boats ) and it will be a matter of time (very short) that they will lift the ban on lethal weapons.. So the future is bright

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## Aqsuperman

Well the chance is still fairly low unless there is a dramatic breakthourgh in the arms market and diplomatic front. Uncle Sam is still the person to call the shot. And so far only light to medium non-Russia stuff have been obtained such as rocket, small arms and armored vehicle. Heavy stuf like a tank wil require a lot of investment which VN may ill-afford and support without places and industry to supply ammunitions and maintance ......but keep your hope up, folks.


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## Viet

Mokaman said:


> Why saying zero chance to sell German weapons to Viet Nam? Germany already sold a lot weapons to no-NATO members already. Leopard 2 and other German IFV are sold to Indonesia, also Qatar, Singapore, Chili are all operating Leopard 2 now. They even modified the Indonesian Leopard 2 for tropical climate. And we only talking about German tanks here, the list of no-Nato countries operating German weaponries will be much longer...


bro, I just said the obvious, before germany delivers any tanks, the polical climate must improve among many things.
and last but not least, I believe our infrastructure is not yet capable to accommodate 62 tons tank as Leopard 2.



Aqsuperman said:


> Well the chance is still fairly low unless there is a dramatic breakthourgh in the arms market and diplomatic front. Uncle Sam is still the person to call the shot. And so far only light to medium non-Russia stuff have been obtained such as rocket, small arms and armored vehicle. Heavy stuf like a tank wil require a lot of investment which VN may ill-afford and support without places and industry to supply ammunitions and maintance ......but keep your hope up, folks.


where is the picture taken? looks alien to me.


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## Aqsuperman

You want a hint ? India :3


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## tommytrant20

Vietnam is trying to upgrade naval forces to confront a Chinese that it is impossible to correlate the two forces


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## Viet

Hanoi, March 14. Minister of Public Security Tran Dai Quang receives a Federal Security Service (FSB) delegation led by Fetisov Andrey Alexandrovich. or formerly known as the world famous KGB. which was directed by comrade Vladimir Putin.

Nice.


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## Gen Padmanabhan

Viet said:


> pictures from the Orient
> 
> Tehran, Iran, March 13, 2016. Vietnam state president and his spouse arrived Tehran to a state visit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rouhani (L) and his Vietnamese counterpart Tan Sang inspect the guard of honor during an official welcoming ceremony in Tehran on March 14, 2016. (Photo by Mehr News Agency)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PressTV-Iran, Vietnam to raise trade ties to $2bn



That is interesting, very interesting.


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## Viet

Both most important security services of Russia, National Security Council and Federal Security Service (FSB) arrive in Hanoi for talks. what´s up comrades?

@Barmaley
@senheiser


*Russian Security Council Head Arrives in Vietnam to Discuss Security Issues*

(updated 10:46 15.03.2016)








MOSCOW/HANOI (Sputnik) – Patrushev will hold expert consultations on regional and international security, the senior Russian security official’s spokesman, Yevgeny Anoshin, told RIA Novosti.

On Monday, Patrushev visited Singapore, where he held talks on Russia-Singapore cooperation in maritime security, anti-terrorism, military and technical fields, as well as the prospects of bilateral cooperation in the Arctic.

The Security Council, *chaired by the Russian president*, drafts policy proposals on defending Russia's vital interests of individuals and the state against internal or external threats.



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160315/1036295711/russia-vietnam-security.html#ixzz42yr5TyhC


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> Both most important security services of Russia, National Security Council and Federal Security Service (FSB) arrive in Hanoi for talks. what´s up comrades?
> 
> @Barmaley
> @senheiser
> 
> (updated 10:46 15.03.2016)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOSCOW/HANOI (Sputnik) – Patrushev will hold expert consultations on regional and international security, the senior Russian security official’s spokesman, Yevgeny Anoshin, told RIA Novosti.
> 
> On Monday, Patrushev visited Singapore, where he held talks on Russia-Singapore cooperation in maritime security, anti-terrorism, military and technical fields, as well as the prospects of bilateral cooperation in the Arctic.
> 
> The Security Council, *chaired by the Russian president*, drafts policy proposals on defending Russia's vital interests of individuals and the state against internal or external threats.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20160315/1036295711/russia-vietnam-security.html#ixzz42yr5TyhC



It is ordinary visit, i guess


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## Aqsuperman

Heavy weapon section :3


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## Viet

Tehran, March 15. President Truong Tan Sang pays a visit to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.
from what I understood is he offers Vietnam as the major partner for the country as Iran appears to copy India´s "Look East” policy. a shift to South East Asia.

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## Viet

Policewomen: Hoài Thương


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## Viet

*Tank*

Soviet designed airborne assault tank ASU-85. delivered to Vietnam during Vietnam-China war 1979. 15.5 tons, 85mm main gun D-70 (2A15).


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> ASU-85



ASU-85 - is a self-propelled howitzer. You probably mistake it with the PT-76 - which is a light tank. Both air-droppable.


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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> ASU-85 - is a self-propelled howitzer. You probably mistake it with the PT-76 - which is a light tank. Both air-droppable.


the viet article say, it is ASU-85, which uses a PT-76 chassis. got this one: a Norh Vietnamese PT-76A in the battle of Ben Het 1969.


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## Mokaman

*Vietnam's Plan to Deter China With Western Jets*

Vietnam is negotiating with American and European manufacturers to purchase new warplanes—including fighters, maritime patrol aircraft and unmanned aircraft. The move comes as part of Hanoi’s strategy to lessen its dependence on Russian hardware and to counter China’s growing power.

According to Reuter’s Siva Govindasamy, Vietnam has been in talks with contractors who build the Saab JAS-39E/F Gripen NG, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon and the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. It’s also taken a hard look at Korea’s F/A-50 lightweight fighter—which was developed in cooperation with Lockheed.

Assuming Hanoi can reach a deal, Vietnam could buy up to a hundred combat aircraft to replace its antiquated fleet of 144 Mikoyan MiG-21 Fishbeds and thirty-eight Sukhoi Su-22 Fitter strike aircraft. The new aircraft would supplement Vietnam’s existing fleet of Russian-made Flanker air superiority fighters. Hanoi operates about a dozen original model Sukhoi Su-27 Flankers and thirty-two more modern Su-30MK2 Flankers with four more on order.

While Washington and Hanoi have been on better terms in recent years, with the U.S. defense secretary visiting the nation as recently as last June, buying an American combat aircraft might still be a bridge too far for Vietnam. The memories of the Vietnam War—which was much more devastating for Vietnam than for the United States—might mean that Hanoi will have reservations about dealing with American contractors. As such, a European warplane might have an edge. Indeed, Vietnam is known to have held fairly advanced discussions to buy the Typhoon, according to Reuters.

But Hanoi needs more than just fighters. Given its maritime disputes with Beijing, Vietnam needs maritime patrol aircraft and surveillance capabilities. The country has been talking to the Swedes about maritime patrol and airborne early warning variants of the Saab 340 or 2000 twin-engine turboprops, according to Reuters.

Vietnam has also discussed purchasing a maritime patrol version of the Airbus C-295, Lockheed’s Sea Hercules variant of the C-130 transport and a Boeing offering of a business jet fitted with much of the surveillance suite from the P-8 Poseidon. The Boeing offering would not include anti-submarine warfare capabilities however.

Hanoi is also looking for unmanned surveillance aircraft to help patrol its vast shoreline. However, no details are available on exactly what aircraft the country wants to buy. But as tensions with China look to continue unabated, Hanoi is almost certain to explore is options and, in doing so, start moving closer to Washington.

_Dave Majumdar is the defense editor for the _National Interest_. You can follow him on Twitter: @davemajumdar._


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## Viet

Deterring China: US Army to Stockpile Equipment in Cambodia and Vietnam | The Diplomat

The U.S. Army plans to set up equipment depots in a number of Asian countries, including Cambodia and Vietnam.






Image credit: US Army


By Franz-Stefan Gady
March 18, 2016


The U.S. Army plans to set up equipment depots–so-called equipment activity sets–in a number of Asian countries, including Cambodia and Vietnam, the top officer of the U.S. Army’s Materiel Command said at a conference, _Defense News _reports.

General Dennis Via, speaking at this year’s Association of the United States Global Force Symposium and Exposition, said that the Army plans to set up eight equipment activity sets around the globe. However, Asia-Pacific equipment activity sets will differ from other equipment caches that the Army maintains in, for example, Europe, the general notes.

“Army prepositioned stocks are go-to-war equipment,” Via explained when discussing European activity sets. According to _Breaking Defense_, the European equipment depots hold 200 M1 Abrams heavy tanks 87 tanks, 138 M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, and 18 M109 Paladin self-propelled howitzers.

The Army Materiel Command also recently sent 5,000 tons of ammunition to Europe, the largest delivery of its kind since the end of World War II. General Via explained that it is the responsibility of his command to “provide our Army and the joint force with strategic reach, allowing units to quickly deploy and fall into equipment that is highly modernized.”

The equipment activity sets in Cambodia and Vietnam will contain lighter equipment primarily for humanitarian and disaster relief operations, according to Via. “Throughout the Pacific Rim, these will be humanitarian assistance/disaster relief-type equipment and material, so that when you have typhoons and other types of natural disaster U.S. Army Pacific Command can respond more quickly,” Via said, according to _Breaking Defense_. “We are looking, for example, at in Cambodia placing a combat support hospital.”

Furthermore, the general also emphasized that one reason for the establishment of additional equipment caches is saving money. “We remain in fiscally challenging waters. We are constantly looking for ways to gain the most out of every federal dollar,” Via said.

Nevertheless, Via’s plan are certain to be politically controversial.

Even if the materiel stationed in Cambodia and Vietnam does not include go-to war equipment and will primarily be used for humanitarian and disaster relief operations, it nevertheless will send a powerful message to China and will amplify Beijing’s sense of slowly getting encircled by the United States and its allies in the Asia-Pacific region.

Stockpiling U.S. military equipment in Cambodia and Vietnam would mean a de-facto small permanent presence of U.S. Army personnel in those countries. This could create useful spillover effects and deepen cooperation between
the United States and Asia-Pacific countries with no permanent U.S. military bases.

It remains to be seen how the plans of the Army Materiel Command will affect overall Sino-U.S. relations and in what way Beijing will feel compelled to ‘retaliate.’ It is also unclear whether these plans could still unravel in the face of domestic opposition in Cambodia and Vietnam, as well as in other countries.


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## Viet

March 17, 2016. Welcome the first ever foreign vessel to the new Cam Ranh international port.

Singaporean Navy’s RSS Endurance, with a crew of 81 Singaporean navy sailors led by Lieutenant Colonel Noel Chen Xin Yi. various joint Vietnam-Singapore exercises are planned.


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## Aqsuperman

ASU 85 is literraly a self-propelled gun that is good for providing temporary firesupport to paratrooper until heavier elements arrive. Back in the Ogaden War, a surprise attack form Cuban BMD-1 and ASU-57 manage to rout the Somali. Still, in this time of day, its has litle function except a light support gun ( which i prefer a T-34 with same caliber but moveable turret)






A line of Type 63 APC in reserve


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## Viet

...and more guests to the Cam Ranh International Port are expected. the more guests the better the party. two Japanese warships are coming in a week or so after visiting the Philippines: destroyers Ariake and Setogiri 


Destroyer JDS Ariake






Destroyer JDS Setogiri


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## Viet

Hanoi on March 18

General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army hosted a reception for the Commander of the US Pacific Fleet, Adm. Scott H. Swift.

the US Pacific Fleet, headquarted in Hawaii, 250,000 military personnel, 200 warships, 2,000 aircraft, is the most powerful military branch of US armed forces. Joining with Admiral Swift was Lieutenant General John A. Toolan, Commander of the U.S. Marine Corps in Pacific. Talking about the purpose of the trip, Admiral Swift said:

"As the first joint visit to Vietnam by both U.S. Navy and Marine Corps commanders in the Pacific for many decades, this trip was an excellent opportunity to meet with our Vietnam People’s Navy partners and explore ways to bring our naval forces together more often during ship visits and exchanges".

"Our naval forces share a commitment to a rules-based international order and to maritime security and stability in ways that benefit the rising prosperity of all regional countries”, he added.

Translating: the US army, especially the Navy and Marine Corps seek closer ties with Vietnam Armed Forces.

Soon we will see more warships than sharks in the South China Sea.

@Desertfalcon






_Adm. Scott H. Swift reads his orders as he assumes command of U.S. Pacific Fleet from Adm. Harry B. Harris Jr. on Wednesday. (U.S. Navy/MC2 Diana Quinlan)_







_General Do Ba Ty, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army receives the Commander of the US Pacific Fleet, Adm. Scott H. Swift in the Army Headquarter._


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## Aqsuperman

Special shotting team with FNC


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## Viet

*Vietnam’s Quest for a Greenwater Navy*
Despite the recent headlines, Vietnam still has a lot of ground to cover to establish a revitalized and balanced navy.

By Collin Koh
March 18, 2016






_Image Credit: REUTERS/ Kham_


The recent induction of an unarmed, harmless-looking sail training ship stood in sharp contrast to the sleek new surface and sub-surface assets that the Vietnam People’s Navy (VPN) has been acquiring in recent years.

_Le Quy Don _(hull number 286), as this peculiar-looking vessel is christened, after a 18th-century Vietnamese philosopher, is the latest member of what is without a doubt one of Southeast Asia’s most rapidly expanding navies. Despite not having invited as much media fanfare as, say, the _Kilo_-class submarines, the _Le Quy Don_ does signify the growing maturity of a navy that is fast shaking off the brownwater label in favor of greenwater.

Built by Poland, measuring a length of 67 meters long, weighing 857 metric tons and crewed by thirty, the _Le Quy Don_ can accommodate up to 80 naval cadets or midshipmen. It is envisaged as a dual-purpose platform for long-range training cruises and facilitating defense diplomacy through friendly port calls. This sail training ship would be deployed in a similar fashion as its Indian counterpart _Tarangini,_ for example.

*Competing Mission Requirements *

While one may revel in the _Le Quy Don_’s entry, it is also important not to overlook the fact that this move does in a way reflect the VPN’s deep-seated capacity shortfalls.













_Vietnam first training sailship Le Quy Don_


In the first place, capacity-building funds are divided between the VPN and its civilian counterparts – the Vietnam Coast Guard (VCG) and Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance (VFRS). With limited funds allocated to each service, prioritization naturally becomes the order of the day. As much as the VPN would have liked to obtain more “big ticket” naval assets, for example _Gepard-3.9_ light frigates, _Kilo_ submarines, and _Molniya_-class fast attack craft, fiscal realities make it difficult to embark on bigger purchases.

In fact, this fiscal constraint is endemic across all services, not just the military. The VCG and VFRS would also have sought more patrol assets to cope with anticipated maritime challenges, especially bearing in mind lessons learnt from the tense standoff with China over the controversial deep-sea oil rig HYSY981 back in 2014. As it stands, taking both the navy and civilian agencies altogether, Vietnam barely musters sufficient assets to fully police waters under its jurisdiction and to which it lays claim in the South China Sea (SCS).

But peacetime deterrence and sovereignty enforcement are not the only duties the VPN has to contend with. In the recent years, it has seen an increasing expanding defense diplomacy function, described broadly as “external work” by the Vietnamese defense authorities. The ground forces – long the most senior of all services – are earmarked for international peacekeeping operations, an explicitly-stated “external work” for the military. It would be strange to omit the VPN from such a role.

Facing this additional peacetime function, the VPN inevitably faces a degree of strain imposed on its existing capacities. Being newer and equipped with better range and seakeeping qualities compared to its predecessor – the old Soviet-era _Petya_-class – the _Gepard-3.9_ light frigate has since become the workhorse of a more extroverted VPN. Besides undertaking regular South China Sea patrols, this particular class also conducts port visits to regional countries. Most notably, the name-ship of the class, _Dinh Tien Hoang_ (HQ-011), even participated in the latest International Fleet Review hosted by India.

However, in the long run, dual-tasking the _Gepard-3.9s_, the only bluewater-capable surface combatant in VPN service, represents an unsustainable option given the precarious balance to be struck between coping with the simmering tensions in the South China Sea and defense diplomacy functions. Of course, this problem can be best ameliorated if the VPN is able to procure as many surface combatants such as the _Gepard-3.9_ as it desires. But for now, as the second follow-on pair of _Gepard-3.9s_, said to be optimized for anti-submarine warfare (ASW), is undergoing advanced stages of construction, the prospects of acquiring more of such oceangoing surface warships remain dim.

*Uncertainties over Procurement*

The VPN’s procurement, as a result of funding constraints, is often characterized by long lead-times and small quantities. The _Gepard-3.9_ program is instrumental in highlighting not just funding, but also other intervening uncertainties that may potentially stymie fleet expansion programs.

Back when the VPN was busying itself with inducting the first pair of _Gepard-3.9s_, much effort was made in effecting work on the second pair. The first vessel completed the first phase of construction in Zelenodolsk in December 2013, with an eye on delivering this and the second unit to the VPN in 2016 and 2017 respectively. However, uncertainty soon loomed over the prospect of delays, after relations between Russia and Ukraine broke down over the Crimean crisis. Kiev thereafter severed the export of warship gas turbines to Moscow, thereby imposing a downstream effect affecting many naval shipbuilding projects on hand. But in November 2014, a representative of the Zelenodolsk-based Gorky Shipyard assured that the two “batch 2” _Gepard-3.9s_ would be delivered on schedule to the Vietnamese.

However, in March 2015 construction of the two frigates was reportedly affected as the Russia-Ukraine fallout persisted. In May the same month, the shipyard assured that construction of the two warships has progressed to the stage of installing combat systems on board. But Russian reports which subsequently surfaced indicated that not all has gone well with the project due to the continued rift between Moscow and Kyiv. In June, shipyard authorities admitted that the Ukraine problem resulted in the setback of delivery schedules of the frigates by a year – to 2017 and 2018 instead. They also conceded that propulsion for the _Gepard-3.9s_ was in the process of being obtained from alternative sources through the Vietnamese government.

In March 2016 during a visit to Hanoi, Ralf Brauksiepe, an official of the German Defense Ministry, pledged the ministry’s assistance to Vietnam in the area of military training and defense industry. The latter aspect is interesting, since it would envisage Germany’s supply of propulsion for the VPN’s second pair of _Gepard-3.9s_ still undergoing construction. This would allow Hanoi to circumvent the potential problems of component supply by subcontractors to the frigate program. This episode ought to have driven home a valuable lesson about diversification of sources, especially given that the VPN has been heavily reliant on Russia as the single primary source of equipment all this while.

But the _Gepard-3.9_ close-shave is not the only problem the VPN has to contend with. The falling-through of the earlier, much-touted SIGMA corvette deal with Dutch shipbuilder Damen represented another lost opportunity to revitalize Vietnam’s navy and showcase the ability to diversify equipment sources. Suffice to note, by 2018 the VPN will be bequeathed with only four _Gepard-3.9s_. Only one, at the most two, of these modern, well-equipped warships might conduct missions at any one time. This tiny force is barely sufficient to meet Vietnam’s naval operational needs. In times of contingencies, this handful of frigates and their crews may find themselves stretched to the limits.






_Gepard frigates under construction_


Therefore, faced with limited resources and an expanding range of functions, the only option left to the VPN would be to seek alternative approaches. Acquiring the _Le Quy Don_, which gives the navy a dedicated training ship capable of offering its naval cadets an oceangoing exposure while performing defense diplomacy functions, reflects one such alternative. The sail training ship helps relieve the _Gepard-3.9s_ somewhat by allowing them to focus on peacetime deterrent and enforcement functions in the South China Sea, even though where necessary they could still perform defense diplomacy functions.

*Toward a Balanced Fleet*

While the _Le Quy Don_ does constitute a prudent purchase decision made by the VPN by ameliorating the potential problems of overtaxing the existing frontline assets, this at best presents a short-term, interim solution. Its entry constitutes part of the efforts to “develop a diverse fleet of naval vessels” for the VPN, according to navy commissar Vice Admiral Dinh Gia That. By that, it should imply Hanoi’s quest towards attaining a balanced, greenwater navy.

Compared to its dilapidated state back in the early 1990s, a result of decades of Cold War neglect and disrepair, the VPN today has made noteworthy strides by gaining new and better capabilities. But to build a revitalized and balanced navy is no easy task. Firstly, many of the classes of assets have reached block obsolescence and in need of urgent replacement. Secondly, there are just too many diverse areas of capabilities that require attention.

So far, the predominant focus has been on improving offensive surface strike weaponry, an area that has garnered much attention since the 1990s, which reflected the prevailing operational environment then. Hence, the VPN devoted resources toward replacement of the obsolete, Cold War-era P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx) anti-ship missile with the Kh-35 Uran (SS-N-25 Switchblade). The objective is to standardize this missile as the primary offensive armament on board the VPN’s surface combat fleet.

The attention on improving surface strike also extends to other branches of service. Hanoi acquired the Russian-built Bastion-P/Yakhont coastal defense missile batteries to first complement and then gradually supplant the array of different Cold War-era systems. Likewise, land-based Sukhoi fighter jets, especially the latest Su-30MK2V which is optimized for maritime support functions, are equipped with the Kh-31 (AS-17 Krypton) anti-ship missiles.






_Su-30 with Kh-31 antiship missile_


By the turn of the century, the focus on enhancing surface offensive capabilities overlapped with a new, additional focus on creating a credible subsurface warfare dimension for the VPN. This resulted in the acquisition of six _Kilo_ submarines in 2009 – arguably the most significant post-Cold War single purchase by the VPN. Acquiring an undersea capability essentially helps fulfill multiple operational requirements. First, it bolstered Vietnam’s deterrence capabilities, especially in terms of sea denial. Second, the submerge-launched Klub missiles not only offer standoff anti-shipping but also provide a limited force projection capability through land-attack missions.

Currently, the submarines are smoothly being inducted and the squadron is well on the way towards full-operationalization by early-middle of 2017, once the last boat is delivered within this year. It would amount to a colossal feat for the VPN, considering so much has been accomplished over just two decades of its fleet modernization program and in the face of funding constraints and pressing requirements for block replacement of the mostly antiquated equipment in service.

*Too Much on the Navy’s Plate*

Notwithstanding these recent major enhancements to its anti-surface and anti-submarine dimensions, the VPN remains short on a number of other critical capability areas. Anti-air warfare for fleet self-defense remains weak, especially after the SIGMA program – which would have been equipped with VL-MICA surface-to-air missiles – fell through. There are also no concrete plans conceived to revitalize the Soviet-era fleet of mine countermeasures vessels. In fact, this particular arm of the VPN has always appeared to be the least prioritized, plausibly because of the low threat of state-centric hostile naval mining that threatens sea lines of communications.

Another area that the VPN continues to fall short in has been on overall amphibious capabilities. While the naval infantry, which is tasked for amphibious assault operations and SCS garrison duties, has seen a spate of modernization in small arms and light weapons, as well as protective equipment, it continues to rely on Soviet-era light amphibious tanks and personnel carriers. More crucially, the existing hodgepodge of vintage Soviet and American landing vessels remain in mostly unserviceable conditions. The VPN has so far only inducted locally-built landing vessels that perform mainly roll-on/roll-off functions in support of the offshore garrisons. They do not provide sufficient sealift capabilities for the naval infantry. And they are not specifically configured to conduct opposed amphibious assault landing operations.

A third, final area that has proven critical for Vietnam’s naval needs is aerial maritime patrol. The Spanish-built CASA-212 and Canadian-built DHC-6 Twin Otter amphibious planes, equipped with Western and Israeli mission equipment, are handicapped in range, endurance, and sensor capabilities to enable sustained, broad-area surveillance over wide swaths of waters in the South China Sea. Most importantly, these aircraft lack ASW detection capabilities. A long-range maritime patrol aircraft (LRMPA) is necessary, but ever since Hanoi once evinced interest in acquiring used P-3C Orion from the United States, no further news have been forthcoming. The existing C-295 transport planes may be suitable for conversion into a LRMPA, but these were acquired in the first place to replace the aging Soviet-era Antonov airlifters, therefore leaving slim possibility of them being converted for maritime use unless more airframes are acquired.

Nevertheless, the year 2016 would still witness exciting developments for Vietnam’s navy, especially once the last _Kilo _boat is delivered and the _Le Quy Don_ embarks on its regional and even international training cruises. And foreseeably in the next couple of years, the VPN would also see incremental additions to its fleet with the induction of the second pair of _Gepard-3.9s_ and domestically-built patrol and fast attack craft.

All in all, Vietnam is very much well on track towards realizing a credible, balanced greenwater navy if it holds tight onto its present conviction and creates favorable international political circumstances conducive for its quest to diversify naval equipment sources. Yet at the same time, Vietnam’s naval planners must seriously think about the long term, and whether the navy can sustain and even hasten its present modernization efforts to cope with uncertainties in the country’s security milieu – all in the face of this dual-challenge of foreseeably persistent funding constraints and ever-expanding mission scope of the VPN.

_Koh Swee Lean Collin is associate research fellow at the Institute of Defence and Strategic Studies, a constituent unit of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies based in Nanyang Technological University, Singapore. Collin’s research activities can be found __here__ and he can be contacted at iscollinkoh@ntu.edu.sg_

Vietnam’s Quest for a Greenwater Navy | The Diplomat


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## Viet

the eyes of Vietnam in the South China Sea: seven complexes of steel houses on reefs and rocks in the southern continental shelf as far as 350 nautical miles from the shore. a number of patrol ships are assigned to each of the steel houses.


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## frequency

hahah more data is loss to Anonymous members. 
They should never **** with them in the first place. This wouldn't happen.
@Carlosa

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## Aqsuperman

Great.........

Su-22 with a batch of R-60 missiles


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## Viet

Little fun when your posts get deleted...


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------




*Japanese destroyers visit Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Bay*
Kyodo



Online: Apr 12, 2016


















_Photo: Hiroshi Fukada, Japanese ambassador to Vietnam, reads out a message from Defense Minister Gen Nakatani aboard the guided-missile destroyer Ariake in Vietnam's Cam Ranh Bay on Tuesday. | KYODO_


CAM RANH, VIETNAM – Two Maritime Self-Defense Force warships made a historic port call Tuesday at Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam.

The visit by the guided-missile destroyers Ariake and Setogiri was the first of its kind, according to the Japanese Embassy in Hanoi.

Cam Ranh Bay faces the South China Sea and in particular the Paracel and Spratly island chains, a source of dispute between Vietnam and China.






_Destroyer Ariake
_





_Destroyer Setogiri_








In Tokyo, Defense Minister Gen Nakatani told a news conference Tuesday he expects bilateral defense cooperation with Vietnam to grow.

He added that Japan will work with the United States and other countries to reinforce relations with nations around the South China Sea and continue efforts toward peace and stability.

Following the Vietnam War, Cam Ranh Bay was home to a major Soviet naval base. It has been controlled by the Vietnamese navy since the Russians withdrew in 2002, and it is rare for foreign vessels to make visits.

This visit was agreed to in November between Nakatani and his Vietnamese counterpart at the time, Phung Quang Thanh. The plan was realized after Vietnam inaugurated an international port that can accept foreign vessels in March.

The two destroyers are expected to conduct joint drills with the Vietnamese navy. The maneuvers will be part of training for MSDF officer candidates.

Before arriving in Cam Ranh Bay, the MSDF vessels joined the submarine Oyashio in making a port call at Subic Bay in the Philippines. China claims almost the entire South China Sea and has competing territorial claims with Vietnam, the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan.

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## Aqsuperman

Newest Molniya ship


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## Viet

Artillery: a picture probably from the Vietnam-China war (1979)






not much different to today, except the camo









Women communications units in Navy, Infantry, Artillery, Airforce

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## Viet

April, 4th. Launching two new built Molynia warships, with standard armement 16 x Kh-35E anti-ship missiles. a salvo of 16 missiles will take less than 2 minutes.








M5





M6









Land based ASB: 4K51 Rubezh.

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## Viet

Preparation rocket lauch

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## Viet

Trainer aircraft L-39


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## Viet

Standard armament of infantryman has not changed much since the last major wars: AK rifle and RPG.

North Vietnamese Army during the battle of La Drang Valley (1965)
















today


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## Viet

_2S3 Akatsiya_ 152-mm self-propelled howitzer


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## Viet

Naval infantry rifles produced by Z11 factory






Patrol aircraft DCH-6 landing on an island in the SC Sea.






Sr. General Lt. Nguyễn Chí Vịnh on a visit to the Philippines. both countries reportedly plan joint sea patrol and war games.


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## Viet

Improved anti aircraft missile system _C125-2TM _

_




_

_




_


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## MacanJawa

vietnam looks strong compared to indonesia in equipment, how much your defence spending my vietnamese friend?


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> vietnam looks strong compared to indonesia in equipment, how much your defence spending my vietnamese friend?


it varies between $3.4b (IHS Jane’s), $4.3b (Bloomberg) and $7.8b (IISS) for 2013, so something in between.


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## Viet

*PACFLT Enhances Bilateral Cooperation with Vietnam*

By MC2 Tamara Vaughn, U.S. Pacific Fleet Public Affairs
Posted April 14, 2016 







_Rear Adm. Patrick A. Piercey, U.S. Pacific Fleet (PACFLT) director of maritime operations, right, and Rear Adm. Do Minh Thai, deputy chief of staff of the Vietnam People's Navy, attend bilateral staff talks at PACFLT headquarters. (U.S. Navy/MC2 Tamara Vaughn)_


*PEARL HARBOR, Hawaii* - U.S. Pacific Fleet (PACFLT) senior military leaders hosted bilateral staff talks with officials from Vietnam to exchange ideas on a variety of technical and operational topics at PACFLT headquarters, April 12-14.

The talks, the sixth between the PACFLT staff and their Vietnamese counterparts, focused on strengthening ties between the two nations by agreeing on bilateral and multilateral naval activities that deepen cooperation; exchanging knowledge and developing methodologies ranging from maritime domain awareness, maritime security, and submarine rescue; and learning lessons from past cooperative efforts.

Rear Adm. Patrick A. Piercey, PACFLT’s director of maritime operations, met with Rear Adm. Do Minh Thai, deputy chief of staff of the Vietnam People’s Navy, to discuss planning and joint training concentrated on maximizing future opportunities, including expanding on the scope and complexity of bilateral engagements, and humanitarian and disaster response efforts that will allow countries to rapidly respond in the event of a crisis.

"The bilateral naval talks provided a great opportunity to build and strengthen our existing Navy and Marine Corps relationships with our counterparts from Vietnam," said Piercey. "Our forces are better prepared and more versatile because of our ability to better communicate with our partners and learn from each other and contribute to the norms, rules, standards, and laws that maintain stability in maritime Southeast Asia."

The three-day conference included events such as a tour of the Pacific Aviation Museum and the Battleship Missouri Memorial, demonstrations at Marine Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Squadron 3, a tour of a P-3C Orion from Patrol Squadron 47, and a visit to the Naval Submarine Training Center Pacific.


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## Aqsuperman

Gepard HQ 12 on maintaince


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## MKC

Viet said:


> April, 4th. Launching two new built Molynia warships, with standard armement 16 x Kh-35E anti-ship missiles. a salvo of 16 missiles will take less than 2 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M6


These ships must be upgraded with stealth features, like *Visby class** or GRSE ASW-SWC corvettes *which have similar size & armaments.



Viet said:


> it varies between $3.4b (IHS Jane’s), $4.3b (Bloomberg) and $7.8b (IISS) for 2013, so something in between.


2.3x(IHS Jane’s)=IISS
What?
I can assume it's about 3.5B & 1-2B for procurement.


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## Viet

still the best because cheap and effective. a battery of Vietnam made self-propelled howitzers. a M101 105mm howitzer of the former South Vietnamese Army (ARVN) mounted on a " Ural-375D " truck chassis. maximum range of 11.5 km. maximum rate of fire is 10 rounds a minute. the mobility allows change of position immediately after firing one or more salvos before our position can be located by enemy.

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## Aqsuperman

MKC said:


> I can assume it's about 3.5B & 1-2B for procurement.



Technically, its impossible to know the figures but i can say that our budget for purchasing new equipments is on the rise, with the establishment of new fighter regiments, naval squardon , submarine brigade and their support units plus the potential modernizing the Army service rifle, the number is probably already above 4.5B.....still, that is my guess anyway :v 

Su-30 of the 923 Fighter Regiment.........I always wonder why the camo is kind of weird though


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## Aqsuperman

Antonov An-2 of VPAF........old as Mother Earth herself yet still have a fairly high safety record


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## Viet

a selection of Vietnam made rifles and hand guns


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## Viet

Kevlar helmet and Flak vest for infantryman


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## Viet

Artillery Corps

85mm






105mm






122mm







130mm






152mm


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## Aqsuperman

The repainting has began, now all warship will no longer has the "HQ" or will slowly drop it. The standard wil be number and name , the name will be in yellown if the ship has it.


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## Viet

yellow?
usually it is black on grey.


anyway ...continue with some recent news
--------------------------------

Sea Platforms
*DSA 2016: Russia to supply two Gepard-3.9 frigates to Vietnam in late 2016*
*Nikolai Novichkov, Kuala Lumpur* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
21 April 2016







Russia will supply two Gepard 3.9 (Project 11661) frigates to the People's Army of Vietnam Navy (PAVN) in the third quarter of 2016, Renat Mistakhov, Director General of the Zelenodolsk Shipyard, told _IHS Jane's_ at the Defence Services Asia (DSA) 2016 exhibition.

"Both ships, in anti-submarine warfare variants, will be launched in April and May 2016. Then we will start the basin trials," Mistakhov said, adding, "The ships will be supplied to Vietnam in the third quarter of 2016." He pointed out, that the propulsion systems of both frigates have already been mounted and related electrical work has been completed.


---------------------------------


Land Platforms
*DSA 2016: Vietnam may update Soviet era ASU-85s*
*Richard D Fisher Jr, Kuala Lumpur* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
21 April 2016





_Vietnam apparently acquired some Soviet ASU-85 airborne SPATGs after the 1979 war with China, which recently have been brought out of storage. Source: Via Bao Dat Viet_


Officials from the Minotor-Service Corporation of Belarus attending the Defense Services Asia (DSA) 2016 exhibition told _IHS Jane's_ that Vietnamese officials had expressed "strong interest" in purchasing Minotor's upgrade package for their ASU-85 airborne self-propelled anti-tank guns (SPATGs).

Minotor's upgrade package includes a new more powerful diesel engine powerpack that would increase speed from 45 to 60 km/h and range from 400 km to 450 km.

The revelation that Vietnam People's Army (VPA) had the ASU-85 in its inventory was made in the 16 March 2015 issue of the Bao Dat Viet website, showing vehicles operating in a May 2015 exercise. An informed source has told _IHS Jane's_ that these were delivered following China's brief war with Vietnam in 1979.

The 15.5 ton ASU-85, based on the chassis of the PT-76 amphibious tank, started arming Soviet Airborne Troops in 1959. It carries 45 rounds for its fixed D-70 85 mm main gun which has a maximum range of 10 km.

The ASU-85 was transported by the large Mi-6 "Hook" helicopter that the Vietnam People's Air Force also operated until the early 1990s.

The Soviet ASU-85s were part of larger shipments of T-62/55/54 tanks, BMP-1 armored personnel carriers and artillery that allowed the VPA to convert its 304th, 308th and 320th Infantry Divisions into Mechanised Infantry Divisions, or Motorised Rifle Divisions in Soviet terminology.

It is possible that the ASU-85s were kept in storage, which would appear to be confirmed by their being in good condition. Other Vietnamese reports indicate they were brought out of storage to provide a new capability for difficult terrain.


----------------------------




*How Low Oil Prices Hamstring Vietnam in the South China Sea Disputes *
To maintain its position in the South China Sea, Vietnam needs a strong Russia.

By Linh Tong for The Diplomat
April 13, 2016








Falling oil prices are usually analyzed from an economic point of view; Vietnam is no exception. Myriad domestic and international articles have provided in-depth analysis of the “double-edged” effects that falling oil prices might have on Vietnam’s GDP. The _Voice of Vietnam _concluded that “falling oil price’s negative effects might be offset by well-planned economic strategies, which can turn adversity into opportunities for Vietnam economy.”

However, economic impacts are not the only dangers posed by rock-bottom oil prices for Vietnam. Low oil prices also have a non-negligible geopolitical implication – including on the strength of Vietnam’s position in the South China Sea.

The top geopolitical concern for the Vietnamese government is well-known to be the South China Sea dispute, and particularly China’s maneuvers in the region. As a small nation next to the great power (in terms of both population size and international influence) of China, Vietnam has little chance to balance China on its own. The ASEAN community is too fragmented and divided in its national interests to stay united against China. And neither the United States nor Russia is close or sincere enough for Vietnam to whole-heartedly rely upon. The old era of the Communist bloc has long since passed; the current Russian Federation greatly values its comprehensive strategic partnership with China. The United States, meanwhile, seems reluctant to take concrete steps to counter China’s rising influence. Given the reality of the current international and regional order, Vietnam’s only realistic choice is to be self-reliant and make use of the multi-polar balance in the international arena.

For the purposes of this balancing, Vietnam generally prefers a stronger Russia, a weaker China, and less anti-Russian America. That combination provides Vietnam a better negotiating position on the South China Sea disputes. The underlying logic is that the better the balance of power among the United States, Russia, and China, the less power China has, and consequently the relatively greater bargaining power Vietnam can get. Unfortunately, low oil prices have effectively driven the balance away from Vietnam’s interests; today we are seeing a weaker Russia, a stronger China, and a strongly anti-Russia America.

First of all, the falling oil prices have not only reduced Russia’s bargaining position in the international arena but also pushed Russia to depend more on Chinese cash. It’s possible weakening Russia through oil prices was intentional — a strategic move by the United States to render Russia helpless right after the economic sanctions from the West to punish Russian aggression in Crimea. “It’s time to drive Russia bankrupt – again,” read the headline for a 2014 _Forbes_ piece by Louis Woodhill. “We should do to Russia what Ronald Reagan did to its predecessor, the old Soviet Union,” Woodhill argues. “We should drive them into bankruptcy by stabilizing the U.S. dollar” – and thereby driving down oil prices.

It is obviously not a coincidence that this history is repeating itself. In 1983, the notorious oil glut effectively pressed the oil price down from an annual average of $35 per barrel in 1980 to around $14 in 1986. One of the main causes was Reagan allowing oil prices in the United States to be decided by the free market and increasing American oil production. Again, in 2014, with Russia and the United States at odds over Crimea, Washington announced the possibility of increasing production.

Since then, oil prices have plummet from over $100 a barrel to around $30. The decline in oil prices drove the Russian economy into the corner. According estimates from the International Monetary Fund, Russia’s GDP shrank by 3.7 percent in 2015, and is projected to contract a further 1 percent in 2016. This constrained economic capacity has consequently harmed Moscow’s political influence.

It has also boosted China’s clout in the Sino-Russian relationship. Eager for more customers, Russia had to rush into the potentially non-profitable “Power of Siberia” pipeline with China in 2014. The gas deal with China, worth $400 billion, provides an alternative market for Russian energy exports.

Russia’s own problem with Crimea and the current economic doldrums has blocked Russia from taking any definitive stand on the South China Sea disputes. In contrast to tangible support given to China’s neighbors during the Sino-Soviet split — Soviet military advisers were stationed in Vietnam during the Sino-Vietnamese war, while Soviet troops massed at the Sino-Soviet border and Mongolian-Chinese border – Russia’s policy on the South China Sea disputes has been described as “non-existent.” A weakened and dependent Russia, the result of falling oil prices, is not encouraging for Vietnam’s status in South China Sea Dispute.

Furthermore, the drop in oil prices has strengthened China’s bargaining position as a regional price maker. China ranks third in global gas consumption and second in oil consumption. The falling oil prices lessen the burden on production costs and might help save China from its economic woes. The current oil surplus, and the resulting low prices, benefit China as a global producer and consumer. China stands to gain from the falling oil prices and this is against Vietnam’s geopolitical interests in the South China Sea dispute.

The United States, on the other hand, is busy designing her own game of power in Asia-Pacific. U.S. moves to provide financial aid for the ASEAN countries in strengthening their marine defense capacity (the Southeast Asia Maritime Security Initiative, or MSI) and have American ships guarding the Asia-Pacific are welcomed by all the nations involved, including Vietnam. However, from Vietnam’s geopolitical perspective, the U.S. position has not been as beneficial as desired.

It is important to remember that Vietnam is under the leadership of the Communist Party, which has unerasable links with the Russian Federation and remains trapped in a relationship with Communist China. For this reason, while rhetorically declaring support for Vietnam, the United States has chosen the Philippines to be its strategic partner instead. The American preference is shown in numbers, with Philippines receiving $41 million dollars while Vietnam will receive only $2 million dollars in the MSI package. Meanwhile, the absence of Russia in the South China Sea disputes, due in part to the falling oil prices, fits with the U.S. desire to exclude Russian influence, but it is contrary to Vietnam’s geopolitical interest. An anti-Russia United States is not good for Vietnam’s standing in the South China Sea disputes.

In short, the falling oil price has more than just economic implications for Vietnam. By assessing carefully the effect of the oil surplus on the balance of power among China, Russia, and the United States, the threats for Vietnam geopolitically become more visible. Of course, a strong Russia does not automatically translate to a constraint on Chinese aggression or balance against American activeness in the South China Sea dispute. Yet, a strong Russia will at least contribute to better maintaining what Henry Kissinger has called a “global equilibrium” with “a greater harmony of values” compared to the weak and dependent Russia of today. Following such logic, the falling oil prices are having a detrimental effect on Vietnam geopolitical interests in the increasingly intense South China Sea dispute.

_Linh Tong is a research assistant at ADA University._


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## Viet

I posted the story some time ago, but it was deleted by database issue. so here again.




THE MAGAZINE: From the April 11 Issue

*Vietnam's Agincourt*
The fierce jungle battle that brought down an empire.
Dien Bien Phu, Vietnam


Apr 11, 2016 | By Max Boot












_French soldiers after their surrender. Credit: Vietnam News Agency_



Dien Bien Phu is not a battle that looms large in American consciousness. That’s hardly surprising, since almost no Americans took part. (The exception was two dozen CIA contractor pilots who delivered supplies to the doomed French garrison.) But for Vietnam, as a recent visit to that small town in the country's northwest reveals, it is the equivalent of Agincourt, Gettysburg, Stalingrad, Gallipoli—a battle that defined a nation.

For 55 days in the spring of 1954, the Vietminh, as the nationalist-Communist independence movement led by Ho Chi Minh was known, besieged the French troops who had built up a seemingly impregnable fortress near the Laotian border.

The French-Indochina War may have been primarily a guerrilla war, but the battle of Dien Bien Phu was a siege straight out of World War I. Today, you can wander around some of the remaining French fortifications—concrete bunkers linked by concrete trenches, all of them dug into the gently rolling floor of a valley 11 miles long and 3 miles wide. Here, more than 15,000 defenders—French troops all, but many of North African or Vietnamese origin—were supplied by air from Hanoi, 180 miles away across thick jungle.






_the battle field: the valley of Dien Bien Phu_






_the French army made ready for the decisive battle_


General Vo Nguyen Giap, a self-taught soldier and one of the military geniuses of the 20th century, positioned some 50,000 assault troops backed by 50,000 support personnel, on the slopes around Dien Bien Phu. The French expected Giap to rise to the bait—that mass of colonial troops sitting in the middle of nowhere, just waiting to be attacked—and they were sure that they would be able to blast the Vietminh forces, once assembled, with their superior airpower and heavy artillery. But Giap frustrated their plans with an improbable feat of logistics: He managed to move more than 200 artillery pieces supplied by China, through the jungle, using tens of thousands of men to drag them by hand up the hills around Dien Bien Phu, where they were carefully camouflaged in bunkers invisible from above.

Giap himself took up residence in those hills, with his staff and Chinese advisers. Today you can wander through his simple command post, a thatched-roof hut with only enough room for a mat to sleep on. Next door is a concrete bunker dug into the mountain, where Giap could escape if French airplanes or troops found him—which they did not. The Vietminh commander survived, like his men, on rice and a bit of fish or meat, while the French troops below enjoyed multicourse banquets washed down with wine and brandy and spent their free hours visiting mobile bordellos flown in for their pleasure.

The fun ended on March 13, 1954, almost exactly 62 years before I arrived in Dien Bien Phu, when the hidden Vietminh artillery opened up on the French garrison. "Shells rained down on us without stopping like a hailstorm on a fall evening," wrote a sergeant in the Foreign Legion. "Bunker after bunker, trench after trench, collapsed, burying under them men and weapons."






_Bringing artillery through the jungle_






_The battle begins. Vietnamese artillery opens fire on French positions_


Things only got worse. The Vietminh quickly closed the exposed French airstrip, making it impossible to evacuate the growing number of wounded who overflowed the aid stations. A French doctor likened "their slow, gentle groans" to "a song full of sadness." The defenders could only be reinforced and resupplied by parachute, and even this proved hazardous, with the Vietminh's antiaircraft guns shooting down 48 French aircraft.

Meanwhile the Vietminh infantry relentlessly pressed assault after assault on the French strongpoints, all of which carried women's names: Dominique, Eliane, Huguette, Claudine, and so forth. (Rumor had it they were named after mistresses of the French commander, Brig. Gen. Christian de Castries, a dashing cavalryman who said he wanted nothing more out of life than "a horse to ride, an enemy to kill, and a woman in bed.") The French fought valiantly, especially the elite paratroopers and legionnaires, but they were overwhelmed by the human-wave attacks. Eventually, in the words of historian Martin Windrow, "one-legged soldiers [were] manning machine guns in the blockhouses, being fed ammunition by one-armed and one-eyed comrades."


The white flag finally went up on May 7. It was the worst defeat ever suffered by a European colonial power at the hands of its subjects—a defeat that ended not only the French empire in Indochina but the entire era of Western imperialism.

Seen from the vantage point of 2016, it all seems slightly baffling. What military commander in his right mind would willingly cede the high ground to the enemy? Yet that is what General Henri-Eugène Navarre, the senior French commander in Indochina, did when he launched Operation Castor, as the occupation of Dien Bien Phu was known. The only explanation for this folly—one of the greatest mistakes in military history—is sheer hubris: Navarre had nothing but contempt for his enemies, "Asiatics" who seemed tiny and backward to the heirs of Napoleon and Louis XIV. Navarre did not count on the steely courage and determination that the Vietminh would display—or their willingness to suffer staggering casualties to drive out their colonial masters. The Vietminh lost as many as 25,000 troops in the siege of Dien Bien Phu, while the French lost more than 10,000 men.

It is little wonder, then, that this glorious victory is celebrated in so many monuments scattered around Dien Bien Phu. Everywhere one looks, one finds massive stone representations of heroic Vietnamese fighters and peasants toiling together for the independence of their nation. (What one does not find are decent hotels or restaurants—Dien Bien Phu remains an impoverished, isolated place with few foreign visitors and almost no Americans.)

The Vietnamese are right to be proud of their achievement even if this hagiography necessarily leaves out a few messy details. Like the fact that many of the French soldiers died after being captured. More than 10,000 French troops surrendered on May 7, 1954. Four months later, at the conclusion of a peace treaty in Geneva, fewer than 4,000 were still alive to be released. The rest had perished in a hellish captivity that recalled the Japanese mistreatment of Allied POWs in World War II. There is no mention of the suffering of these surrendered soldiers, just as there is no mention of the heroism many of them displayed in a losing cause.

Another fact omitted: The Vietminh were fighting not just for independence from France—a goal universally popular in Vietnam—but also to impose a Communist dictatorship—a goal considerably less popular. So unpopular, in fact, that Ho Chi Minh and his successors never dared hold a halfway honest election to legitimate their rule.

To this day, the Communist regime in Hanoi, although pursuing capitalist reforms, remains leery of democracy. Two dozen non-Communist candidates risk harassment and even arrest for having the temerity to run for seats in May's elections for the rubber-stamp National Assembly. As in Iran, so in Vietnam: The regime reserves the right to "vet" candidates for office and forbids those who openly challenge it from running.












_Vietnamese soldiers launched assault after assault on French strongholds_


Any way you look at it, the consequences of Dien Bien Phu were mixed: This military victory led to a divided nation and another 20 years of costly war by North Vietnam against the South Vietnamese and their American protectors. Contrary to Communist mythology, propagated at the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City (formerly known as the Museum of American War Atrocities), it was the North that was the aggressor, not the United States. South Vietnam was an independent nation that had little desire to be conquered by Hanoi, not an American "puppet" that welcomed Communist "liberation." The final Communist victory in 1975 led hundreds of thousands of "boat people" to flee and imposed a Stalinist tyranny that only began to loosen its hold in the 1990s when Chinese-style reforms were implemented.

Today Saigon, as Ho Chi Minh City is still generally called, is a bustling mega-city overflowing with cafés and consumer goods, new office buildings and new businesses, cars and motor scooters, and Vietnam is a budding ally of the United States. (The two countries are united by mutual fear of China.) It is a tragedy that history took such a long detour to arrive at this destination, and that even today Vietnam has a long way to go before it achieves the kind of freedom and prosperity enjoyed by countries such as South Korea and Taiwan that under American protection resisted communism.

Yet none of this detracts from the superhuman self-sacrifice of the heroes of Dien Bien Phu—the men who defeated an empire. One suspects that even if non-Communists eventually take power in Hanoi and allow genuinely free elections, they will continue to revere the fighters who secured one of the most important and least likely military victories of the 20th century.

_Max Boot is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, a contributing editor to_ The Weekly Standard_, and the author of_ Invisible Armies: An Epic History of Guerrilla Warfare from Ancient Times to the Present Day _(Liveright, 2013)_


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## Viet

US airbase. Hawaii, April 13. Like visiting a girl of desire: Orion P3-C Patrol aircraft.


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## BoQ77



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Aqsuperman

Electrical - assisted Zu-23-2 23mm turret on CSB 8004, a new step toward enhancing the CSB fleet armanent. We may see Ak-176 and Ak-630 soon :v


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## BoQ77

@Aqsuperman : are you fan of ComCom? you posted every photos from their FB


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## Viet

*BM-21 Grad *Multiple 122 mm rocket launcher

Maximum firing range‎ ‎40 km, rate of fire‎ ‎2 rounds/s, unprecise as unguided rockets, more suitable for bombardment on a large area. loading time 10 minutes for 40 tubes. a salvo of all rockets takes 20 seconds. Originated in USSR, the Vietnam improved version BM-21 has a longer range and more precise.


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## Viet

M-46 130mm field artillery, coming to service during the Vietnam war, served by a 8 man staff, max firing rate 8 rounds a minute, max range 38 km.


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## Viet

*The South China Sea: Vietnam's Limited Diplomatic Options*
Russia, the United States, Japan — who can help Vietnam square off against China?

By Du Nhat Dang
April 23, 2016






_Defense Secretary Ash Carter, left, and Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Phung Quang Thanh hold a news conference in Hanoi, Vietnam, June 1, 2015. 
Image Credit: DoD photo by Glenn Fawcett_


For Vietnam, 2016 seems fated to be a crucial year. Hanoi’s sovereignty disputes and related diplomatic efforts will be impacted by ongoing changes in Russia, China, and Japan and, yes, the results of the United States’ presidential election.

The role of Russia is of particular interest for Vietnam. On April 14, Vietnamese shipyard Ba Son launched two Russian-designed Project 12418 _Molniya_-class guided missile corvettes built under license for the Vietnamese Navy after 30 months of construction. Russia is still Vietnam’s long-time partner in military-technical cooperation, but the relationship is not trouble-free.

The same day, the spokesperson for Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Le Hai Binh, voiced concerns about Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s previous comments about the internationalization on South China Sea disputes.

“Issues that involve all relevant parties, namely the disputes over the Truong Sa [Spratly] archipelago, must be settled by all countries concerned,” Binh said. He added that Vietnam would stick to its position of seeking to solve the disputes through peaceful measures based on international law, especially the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), and in the spirit of the Declaration on the Conduct of parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

Binh’s statement reflects the thoughts of many Vietnamese people about Russia’s position. Some no longer trust much in the Russian-Vietnamese friendship, arguing that Russia has changed since the days of the Soviet Union. Yes, there are hopes in Vietnam that Russia could take a more proactive stance on the South China Sea issue. On the other hand, there are also hopes that the United States can help Vietnam more by lifting the arms embargo completely.

The Obama administration seems willing to do this. Its positive attitude toward Vietnam was also highlighted in the visit of U.S. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter to Vietnam in 2015, and the U.S.-Vietnam Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations. At the same time, Vietnam and the United States are negotiation on U.S. use of Cam Ranh Bay, considered the finest deepwater port in Southeast Asia. These moves are part of a general warming in Vietnam-U.S. relations.

Public opinion in Vietnam is now splitting into two main camps with differing foreign policy recommendations: make the best of U.S support or seek Russia’s instead.

When Russia openly opposes the internationalization of South China Sea disputes–in other words deciding not to commit to Vietnam’s interests–Vietnam may think different about this choice. After the annexation of Crimea and the conflicts in Syria and Ukraine, Russia seems to be feeling that now is the time to prioritize relations with China. Thus Moscow joined Beijing in opposing the G7 joint statement about the South China Sea.

That makes it more attractive for Vietnam to lean toward the United States. Unfortunately, support from the United States is also hanging in the balance, as much will depend on the next U.S. president.

Where else can Vietnam seek support and an advantage in its dispute with China? The passage of Japan’s new security bills last year, allowing Japan to conduct limited military operations abroad and sell arms to foreign countries, may help. In February, two Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C patrol aircraft visited Vietnam’s Da Nang for three days. This was just one sign of a new stage in Vietnam-Japan military cooperation amid tensions over the South China Sea. These two countries at least have a similar problem to focus on: China.

Vietnam is facing urgent challenges in defending its sovereignty and conducting diplomacy. Vietnam is frustrated by Sergey Lavrov’s comments even while stuck waiting for the next change in the U.S presidency. Most of all, Hanoi is hoping for some sort of intervention from the international community over the South China Sea disputes. Achieving this goal, however, will require immense diplomatic efforts this year.


_Du Nhat Dang is a reporter for _Thanh Nien _newspaper. He graduated from the Faculty of Journalism and Communication, University of Social Sciences and Humanites in Ho Chi Minh City._


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## Aqsuperman

BoQ77 said:


> are you fan of ComCom? you posted every photos from their FB



Yes and no. I like their photos and i do post some here but that Zu 23 2 photo is actually from 1 of my FB friend which may provide Comcom admin with the photo. I can link his facebook to you if you want to :3 






a Markman with his SVD.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman, BoQ77, we need more viet members to contribute in this thread. the more the better. I sometimes feel tired to be the lone wolf, being the lone fighter.

just got this news from india defence forum section

will be a nice antiship missile for our SU-30 bombers.









*Vietnam expected to receive Brahmos missile*

http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.de/2016/04/vietnam-expected-to-receive-brahmos.html?m=1
Thursday, April 21, 2016









Vietnam Peoples Navy is the first foreign customer who expected to receive the world's lethal anti shipping cruise missile Brahmos. Sources confirmed that, the contract would be finalized before the end of this year. Both Russia and India agrees to export the Missile to Vietnam who is a friendly nation to both Nations.

The same source also said that, Air launched version of Brahmos A already completed the ground trails. the airborne carriage trails commenced soon by following the final test launch scheduled by end of this year. The Brahmos A program almost delayed by more than a year, where DRDO and HAL said test launch may occur in end of 2015.

Vietnam is the most pro Russian country who relies on Soviet and Russia for it's military needs, who also threatened by the Chinese with the disputed Island issue. Vietnam requesting the Brahmos missiles for it's front line naval ships, who currently using older Styx missile, Vietnam operates more than six Molniya class missile corvette's. Similar like Indian Navy's veer class missile corvette. Vietnam plans to replace those Styx missiles with Brahmos missile.

Sources said, Vietnam requesting the Brahmos since years, when the official talks started in early 2013, Later the talks actively progressed by both Indian and Russian officials. Since 51% of the missiles stakes under Indian custody, India needs to take the final decision. However India also willingly to share the Brahmos to Vietnam, after Vietnam given few of the oil fields to Indian state firm ONGC.

China protested the Vietnamese move of giving oil fields to India, saying "transferring rights in the disputed Island to foreign country make bigger problems". Refusing the Chinese threat, ONGC get the contract from Vietnam to explore the oil deposits. who already stated working on the fields.

India revamped it's relationship with Vietnam later 2000 only, However which creates stronger basement to counter Chinese threat. The relationship went another level in later years, as once the Indian foreign minister openly said that " Vietnam is one of the Pillar of India's act east Policy ".

The current government keen to expand the relationship into higher level and hosted the Vietnamese Prime minister in India early 2014. During the meet Indian PM offered the Brahmos missile to Vietnam, also expressed deeper maritime relationship with Vietnamese Navy. In this field both navy's conduct regular port visits, Joint patrols and Naval exercise.

Indian Govt also allowed the navy to provide assistance and training to Vietnam navy to work with newly acquired Kilo class submarine from Russia. Also given $100 million credit line to buy new warships from India. India is in final talks to supply four large patrol vessel to Vietnamese navy. as Indian PM promised in earlier 2014.

Vietnam operates six modern kilo class submarines and few Russian frigates and missile corvette's. all those are modernized with newer Klub missiles. Vietnam also operates K 300 P Bastion coastal missile battery, The missile used in the K300 is the Oniks missile, predecessor of Brahmos missile.

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## Viet

march!


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## Aqsuperman

Naval Grenadier with TAR 21


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## BoQ77

There're signs that Vietnam would buy some items from US in near future.


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## Carlosa

*India and Vietnam Can Rescue Asia's Balance of Power*
*Sylvia Mishra
April 25, 2016
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/india-vietnam-can-rescue-asias-balance-power-15902?page=show

I*ndia no longer hides its aspirations of playing an active political and security role in the Asia-Pacific. For political and commercial reasons, the region is critical to India’s strategic thinking. But India’s may not be able to deftly integrate itself in the region, due to lack of consistent political will, steady military modernization and the galloping pace of the regional economy. However, New Delhi has been slowly expanding its strategic and economic heft through its Act East policy, blue-water navy and multilateral diplomacy.

In the evolving security context of the Asia-Pacific, one country that is key to India’s sustained presence and role is Vietnam. In the last few years, Hanoi’s diplomatic profile has grown in New Delhi’s strategic calculus. At the intersection of India’s Act East policy and Vietnam’s Look West policy, both countries have a historic opportunity to shape Asia’s balance of power.


Under the Modi government, a new maturation of India’s Asian strategy has included intensive high-level engagement with Vietnam. However, both countries can do much more to forge bolder diplomatic and military coordination, in view of the strategic rationale of closer ties. The brittle sense of anxiety about China’s territorial expansion and open disregard for international norms mandates that India and Vietnam improve their relations. Moving beyond the robust historical foundation of ties laid by India’s first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, and Vietnam’s Ho Chi Minh, the two countries should adopt politico-military mechanisms to adapt to an evolving Asian order. The landscape is wide for greater collaboration in terms of expanding defense cooperation, naval diplomacy and trade and investments.

During the official visit of Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung to New Delhi in October 2014, both countries’ leaders vowed to strengthen defense ties through security dialogue, enhanced service-to-service cooperation, capacity building and humanitarian mine action under ADMM-Plus. The two countries also signed an MOU in which India provided a concessional line of credit of $100 million for the procurement of defense equipment. This extension of credit and theprovision of four offshore patrol vessels are the first of their kind, signaling India’s preparedness to become an arms exporter as well as its willingness to bolster Vietnam’s defense capabilities. New Delhi’s assistance in modernizing Hanoi’s military forces, however, is not a new development. There have been talks going on to sell the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile since the preceding United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government. Although little progress was made, due to the UPA’s hesitancy to export defense hardware, the Modi government has also failed to expedite the process in the last two years.

Vietnam has sought India’s cooperation in the maritime domain. Both countries have engaged in frequent vessel exchange, while Indian officers have imparted training to Vietnamese submarine forces. Interlocked in a territorial dispute with China and its expansive claims on the South China Sea, Vietnam has struggled to hold its ground amid China’s aggressive land reclamation and construction projects on reefs. A new report from Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) highlights that the Asia-Pacific region accounts for 46 percent of global arms imports over the past five years. This arms race in the Asia-Pacific underlines the region’s fraught security vulnerabilities, as China treats its smaller neighbors with impunity. India has historically been cautious in taking sides on territorial disputes. But a gradual policy change is evident under the Modi administration, as New Delhi approaches the issue with pragmatism, increasingly uninhibited by concerns of antagonizing China. India’s joint regional “Strategic Vision” with the United States, supporting freedom of navigation in the South China Sea (SCS), is one indicator of such a policy shift. Even though India has dismissed talks of joint patrols in the SCS with the United States, India is slowly warming up to the idea that it must undertake a greater security role to restore rule-based order in the region.

India’s partnership with Vietnam also first into the larger context of India’s evolving response to the U.S. “rebalance.” India, the United States and Vietnam share a common interest in preventing China from dominating seaborne trade routes and enforcing territorial claims through coercion. At a time when China is deploying advanced surface-to-air missiles on disputed islands in SCS, Vietnam sees the U.S. presence as a hedge against Beijing’s rising military power. Certainly, the U.S. military buildup in the region will have a significant impact on the regional balance of power. However, staunch diplomatic and security support from regional actors like India, Japan and Australia would be a reinforcing credible deterrent. And New Delhi’s economic commitment to Vietnam and the region is another factor that will shape how other states view India as a regional balancer.

Consistent failure at economic strides has led India’s commercial partnership with Vietnam to remain underdeveloped. Without the economy at the forefront of bilateral ties, prospects for greater India-Vietnam strategic collaboration remain feeble. While India’s trade with Vietnam is at a staggering low of $8.03 billion (2014), despite centuries of territorial disputes China and Vietnam still enjoy two-way trade of $66 billion (2015). According to a report by the Ministry of Planning and Investment’s Foreign Investment Agency, 1,346 Chinese projects are in operation in Vietnam with total registered capital of $10.4 billion, making China the ninth-largest investor of the 112 nations and territories investing in Vietnam. The Foreign Investment Agency reported that Chinese businesses had sharply increased their investment capital from $312 million in 2012 to $2.3 billion in 2013 and $7.9 billion in 2014. As a signatory of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, Vietnam intends to take advantage of Chinese investments to ramp up its transport infrastructure sector. In light of these economic compulsions, Vietnam’s business class steadily makes efforts to temper anti-Chinese violence and rhetoric. In 2014, Forbes reported that Vietnam regrets anti-China violence, and pledges to stop any outbreaks so that supply lines stay open to the flow of textiles and smartphone parts from China.

A realist Indian approach to Vietnam would involve lubricating strategic and defense ties along with promoting vibrant trade and investment policy in the textile, agriculture, pharmaceutical, energy, oil and gas sectors. It is crucial for India to get its Vietnam policy right—a multifarious relationship rooted in history and shaped by the evolving geopolitical imperatives of the Asian century. Efforts to embellish this bilateral partnership not only hold the keys to the Asian balance of power, but also pave the path for India’s truly engaged role in the Asia-Pacific.

_Sylvia Mishra is a researcher at the Observer Research Foundation, working on U.S. policy in the Asia-Pacific and India-U.S. relations._

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## Mokaman

Viet said:


> *Vietnam expected to receive Brahmos missile*
> 
> http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.de/2016/04/vietnam-expected-to-receive-brahmos.html?m=1
> Thursday, April 21, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Peoples Navy is the first foreign customer who expected to receive the world's lethal anti shipping cruise missile Brahmos. Sources confirmed that, the contract would be finalized before the end of this year. Both Russia and India agrees to export the Missile to Vietnam who is a friendly nation to both Nations.
> 
> The same source also said that, Air launched version of Brahmos A already completed the ground trails. the airborne carriage trails commenced soon by following the final test launch scheduled by end of this year. The Brahmos A program almost delayed by more than a year, where DRDO and HAL said test launch may occur in end of 2015.
> 
> Vietnam is the most pro Russian country who relies on Soviet and Russia for it's military needs, who also threatened by the Chinese with the disputed Island issue. Vietnam requesting the Brahmos missiles for it's front line naval ships, who currently using older Styx missile, Vietnam operates more than six Molniya class missile corvette's. Similar like Indian Navy's veer class missile corvette. Vietnam plans to replace those Styx missiles with Brahmos missile.
> 
> Sources said, Vietnam requesting the Brahmos since years, when the official talks started in early 2013, Later the talks actively progressed by both Indian and Russian officials. Since 51% of the missiles stakes under Indian custody, India needs to take the final decision. However India also willingly to share the Brahmos to Vietnam, after Vietnam given few of the oil fields to Indian state firm ONGC.
> 
> China protested the Vietnamese move of giving oil fields to India, saying "transferring rights in the disputed Island to foreign country make bigger problems". Refusing the Chinese threat, ONGC get the contract from Vietnam to explore the oil deposits. who already stated working on the fields.
> 
> India revamped it's relationship with Vietnam later 2000 only, However which creates stronger basement to counter Chinese threat. The relationship went another level in later years, as once the Indian foreign minister openly said that " Vietnam is one of the Pillar of India's act east Policy ".
> 
> The current government keen to expand the relationship into higher level and hosted the Vietnamese Prime minister in India early 2014. During the meet Indian PM offered the Brahmos missile to Vietnam, also expressed deeper maritime relationship with Vietnamese Navy. In this field both navy's conduct regular port visits, Joint patrols and Naval exercise.
> 
> Indian Govt also allowed the navy to provide assistance and training to Vietnam navy to work with newly acquired Kilo class submarine from Russia. Also given $100 million credit line to buy new warships from India. India is in final talks to supply four large patrol vessel to Vietnamese navy. as Indian PM promised in earlier 2014.
> 
> Vietnam operates six modern kilo class submarines and few Russian frigates and missile corvette's. all those are modernized with newer Klub missiles. Vietnam also operates K 300 P Bastion coastal missile battery, The missile used in the K300 is the Oniks missile, predecessor of Brahmos missile.



India giving 100 millions $ credit line for new warships is for stealth destroyer P28? 

* Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India *
 January 9, 2016 Admin  0 Comment Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India

Vietnam and India have reached agreement on the India will sell for Vietnam six modern stealth destroyer named P28.

Vietnam and India’s recent military cooperative relationship are tighter than ever. The result of that relationship is that Vietnam has achieved with India 1 agreement to purchase six modern stealth destroyers P28.

With the purchase of 6 stealth destroyer P28, this is the largest weapons buying contracts in the history of Vietnam’s army. But the information does not indicate the value of the contract, delivery times, etc.




The image of the modern stealth destroyers P28 in the shipyards of India
Stealth destroyer P28 Indian armament production extremely modern, typical of them is missile missile Barak, this combination can intercept target missiles just seconds after leaving the launch pad.

Barak missile missile is considered one of the most advanced missile in the world. In addition, P28 also carry about 16 fastest cruise missile Brahmos world.

Capable of anti-submarine destroyers are also very powerful with the RBU-6000 anti-submarine bombs SMERCH-2. Along with the other weapons as 1 Oto Melara Super Rapid Gun gunboat 76 mm cannon system, 4 AK-630 close combat of Russia and mm machine gun.

Besides, the destroyer also owns the radar reconnaissance system multifunction MF-STAR EL/M-2248 by IAI-Elta designed likely navigate to 32 Barak anti-aircraft missile. The missile was developed in 2006, the successful firing of the missile in Israel in November 2014, with 170 km of operational Radar MF-STAR has the ability to simultaneously track multiple targets at the same time on the sea in 125 km and far range combat aircraft at a distance of 350 km maximum.

In addition, the new ships are also equipped with radar for aerial reconnaissance of the IAI-Elta EL/M-2238 with S band range and aerial search radar Thales LW-08 D-band range.

Vietnam possesses the kind of missile on naval power, Vietnam will increase dramatically.

With the destroyers, P28, Gepard 3.9, Sigma, submarine Kilos, 1241-class ships. They will become the backbone of Vietnam’s Navy in the future.

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## Aqsuperman

It would be a long time with some high level metting and under the table negotiation before something that can go boom from the US reach VN :3 Still, some extra firepower wont hurt if there are no restraint on how VN do it business around. 

Some Western weapon in Military Competitive shotting team


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## Carlosa

Mokaman said:


> India giving 100 millions $ credit line for new warships is for stealth destroyer P28?
> 
> * Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India *
> January 9, 2016 Admin  0 Comment Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India
> 
> Vietnam and India have reached agreement on the India will sell for Vietnam six modern stealth destroyer named P28.
> 
> Vietnam and India’s recent military cooperative relationship are tighter than ever. The result of that relationship is that Vietnam has achieved with India 1 agreement to purchase six modern stealth destroyers P28.
> 
> With the purchase of 6 stealth destroyer P28, this is the largest weapons buying contracts in the history of Vietnam’s army. But the information does not indicate the value of the contract, delivery times, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The image of the modern stealth destroyers P28 in the shipyards of India
> Stealth destroyer P28 Indian armament production extremely modern, typical of them is missile missile Barak, this combination can intercept target missiles just seconds after leaving the launch pad.
> 
> Barak missile missile is considered one of the most advanced missile in the world. In addition, P28 also carry about 16 fastest cruise missile Brahmos world.
> 
> Capable of anti-submarine destroyers are also very powerful with the RBU-6000 anti-submarine bombs SMERCH-2. Along with the other weapons as 1 Oto Melara Super Rapid Gun gunboat 76 mm cannon system, 4 AK-630 close combat of Russia and mm machine gun.
> 
> Besides, the destroyer also owns the radar reconnaissance system multifunction MF-STAR EL/M-2248 by IAI-Elta designed likely navigate to 32 Barak anti-aircraft missile. The missile was developed in 2006, the successful firing of the missile in Israel in November 2014, with 170 km of operational Radar MF-STAR has the ability to simultaneously track multiple targets at the same time on the sea in 125 km and far range combat aircraft at a distance of 350 km maximum.
> 
> In addition, the new ships are also equipped with radar for aerial reconnaissance of the IAI-Elta EL/M-2238 with S band range and aerial search radar Thales LW-08 D-band range.
> 
> Vietnam possesses the kind of missile on naval power, Vietnam will increase dramatically.
> 
> With the destroyers, P28, Gepard 3.9, Sigma, submarine Kilos, 1241-class ships. They will become the backbone of Vietnam’s Navy in the future.



Very good news to hear about this again. I hope this is for real and up to date because this story broke on May 2012 and then we didn't hear anything about them again. I still have the old articles of that time saved, it was also for 6 ships.. I used to post a lot of material about this on the other forum.

These are the Kamorta class ships, they are not destroyers, but frigates. In the Indian Navy they are known as corvettes. They are good ASW ships, but the version for India doesn't have anti ship missiles, so that will need to be modified for Vietnam.

I think the Sigma deal is already dead, the Kamorta class is the replacement for that.

A simpler version of the Kamorta-class might also be selected for the Philippines.

Have to wait for more details and confirmation of the weapon systems.

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## Viet

Mokaman, Carlosa welcome back!

----------





April 25, 2016 7:45 pm JST
*Diplomatic chess in Cam Ranh Bay highlights Vietnam's dilemma*
ATSUSHI TOMIYAMA, Nikkei staff writer





_Japanese destroyers make a call at Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam on April 12._


HANOI -- On April 12, two Japanese destroyers sailed into Cam Ranh Bay in southern Vietnam. It was the first time a Japanese Self-Defense Force vessel had ever appeared in the bay, a strategically important point only about 550km from the contested Spratly and Paracel island chains in the South China Sea. For Vietnam, the visit posed something of a dilemma. On one hand, it served as a warning to China, which has been building a military base in the controversial waters. On the other, it had the potential to raise the ire of its massive neighbor, with which it has deep economic and political ties.

So Hanoi chose to play it down the middle. It ensured that when the two vessels -- the Ariake and Setogiri -- pulled into the bay, they were not accompanied by the Oyashio training submarine, which had accompanied the boats when they called at Subic Bay in the Philippines on April 3.


Vietnam was almost certainly keen to get a firsthand glimpse of the advanced technology the Japanese sub packs. Nevertheless, it chose not to let it in because "submarines are what China is most sensitive about, and Vietnam did not want to stir up Beijing," a Japanese government official said. As a countermeasure against China, Vietnam has been boosting its fleet of submarines since last year, deploying six Russian-made Kilo-class subs at its base in Cam Ranh Bay. China, for its part, is believed to have more than 70 submarines.

 


*



*
_A Japanese commander gives a press conference aboard a Maritime Self-Defense Force vessel in Cam Ranh Bay on April 12._


Initial plans called for having a Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force commander give a press conference on land after docking in the bay. However, a last-minute change had the officer address the press aboard an MSDF vessel, apparently so that the conference was not technically held in Vietnam.

Despite the historic occasion, the highest-ranking official sent from the Vietnamese navy to welcome the vessels was of colonel class. That was probably part of Hanoi's diplomatic chess game.

*A compromise*

Cam Ranh Bay holds great strategic importance to Vietnam. It was leased to the Soviet Union -- and then Russia -- from 1979 to 2002, during which time the country operated a military port there. Vietnam considers the bay its most important line of defense in the South China Sea. Former President Truong Tan Sang once said the bay would never be used for joint military cooperation with any nation, and that has remained the case. But in the face of China's expanding presence in the South China Sea, including the creation of artificial islands in the Spratlys and missile deployment in the Paracel chain, Vietnam is now being forced to rethink that policy.

The Cam Ranh International Port partially opened on March 8, paving the way for an MSDF visit. The port is shared by the military and the private sector and is ostensibly open to military vessels of any country. In late March, when Chinese Defense Minister Chang Wanquan visited the country, Vietnam's Lt. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh said Chinese naval vessels are welcome in the bay.

Though the port may no longer have the air of military exclusivity it once had, Vietnam still decides who's allowed in. That haziness regarding its operation may work in Vietnam's favor: It wants to keep China's surge in check but it does not want to be seen as tilting toward specific countries such as Japan or the U.S.

Moreover, the MSDF vessels were supposed to be the first to arrive at the new port. But in mid-March, a Singaporean naval vessel made a surprise call, changing its destination from the port of Da Nang. That "relegation" was seen as throwing China a bone.

Vietnam and China are bound closely together. China is Vietnam's largest trade partner, accounting for about 20% of its trade value. They also jointly carry out training for high-ranking Communist Party officials. The neighbors have overcome armed conflicts, such as the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979 and the Johnson South Reef skirmish of 1988.

But with China's growing assertiveness in the South China Sea provoking a strong backlash from the international community, Vietnam can no longer sit on the fence. That likely means distancing itself further from China.

By contrast, Hanoi's ties with Tokyo and Washington are strengthening. And if the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade pact takes effect, those bonds will only grow stronger. In October 2014, the U.S. partially lifted a ban on arms exports to Vietnam that had been in place for some 40 years -- since the Vietnam War -- to allow maritime weapons into the country. If the U.S. fully scraps the embargo, it would reduce Vietnam's heavy reliance on Russian arms imports and potentially make the Southeast Asian country more dependent on the U.S. defense industry.

As Vietnam marks the 30th anniversary of the introduction of its Doi Moi economic liberalization policy this year, it will no doubt also be reconsidering its position in the international community.

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## Aqsuperman

ZSU 57 2 monument. This SPAA tank once a formidable anti aircraft weapon now have mostly withdraw due to the slow rate of fire and without radar. Still, in future conflict, its may rise as a potent ground support weapon.


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## Viet

_nice words of the russian army chief to the new visiting Vietnam defence Minister, General Ngo Xuan Lich. Maybe a coincidence: at the same day, Moscow advocates the idea of establishment of a collective security system in the Asia-Pacific region. an apparent move to counter the US dominated military alliance and the new Chinese emerging security threat. while the first serves Russia´s national interest, the latter Vietnam´s. or as chinese love to say it: win-win._

_anyway VN new army chief visits Russia not only for nice words, but also for some major events, and one of them is the launch of a new built Gepard Frigate for the Navy by tomorrow._


_http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160425/1038552650/russia-collective-security-system.html_




*Russian defense minister calls Vietnam Russia’s strategic ally* 
April 25, 16:54 UTC+3 MOSCOW

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu is holding a meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart Ngo Xuan Lich






Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu
© Sergei Savostianov/TASS


MOSCOW, April 25. /TASS/. Vietnam is Russia’s major partner in the Asia-Pacific region and relations with this country are among Russia’s foreign policy priorities, Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said at talks with his Vietnamese counterpart Ngo Xuan Lich.

Shoigu congratulated the defense minister on his appointment, expressing gratitude that his first visit was to Russia.

*"We consider your country as a strategic ally, an old and reliable friend. Vietnam is for us a major partner in ensuring security in the Asian-Pacific Region," *Shoigu said.










More:
http://tass.ru/en/politics/872255


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## Viet

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/amid-south-china-sea/2729942.html

 Laos' new President is on a three-day visit to Vietnam to boost ties as tension brews over territorial disputes in the South China Sea between China and several ASEAN nations. 

By Tan Qiuyi
*Posted* 25 Apr 2016 22:40






Lao _President and Head of Laos' People Revolutionary Party Bounnhang Vorachit (left) and Nguyen Phu Trong, Vietnam Communist Party Secretary General wave during a welcoming ceremony at the presidential palace in Hanoi on Apr 25, 2016. (Photo: HOANG DINH NAM/AFP)_


HANOI: Laos President and Communist Party chief Bounnhang Vorachit on Monday (Apr 25) arrived in neighbouring Vietnam for his *first overseas visit* since assuming the party’s top post in January.

Mr Vorachit held talks with Vietnam’s Communist Party boss Nguyen Phu Trong and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, and is scheduled to meet President Tran Dai Quang on Tuesday.

Vietnamese media hailed the visit as a signal of the two nations’ special friendship even as questions remain over Laos’ close ties with China, with whom Vietnam is locked in a maritime dispute over the South China Sea.

Mr Vorachit’s trip comes in the wake of *Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s* visit to Vientiane over the weekend, where he told reporters that China had come to a “consensus” with Laos, Cambodia and Brunei on the sea spat. A Xinhua report said China and the three countries agreed the territorial dispute was not an issue between China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) "as a whole", and should not affect China-ASEAN relations.

Analysts Channel NewsAsia spoke to cautioned that China’s statement should be taken with a pinch of salt.

None of the three countries have come out to confirm nor repudiate China and they’re not likely to, said Dr Le Hong Hiep, visiting fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore. But the Laotian leader’s visit to Hanoi will be an opportunity for Vietnamese leaders to clarify and for Laos to reassure its longstanding partner about what was really said in meetings with China, he added.

China’s large land reclamation projects and increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea is seen to have had an alienating effect in the region and observers say this is making ASEAN countries think twice before adopting an obvious pro-China position.

It is something of an open secret within Vientiane's diplomatic circles that *Laos President Vorachit has close ties with Vietnam*, so a more balanced approach to China could be expected from the new leadership, said Dr Tran Viet Thai, deputy director of the Institute for Foreign Policy and Strategic Studies in Hanoi.

Laos is the chair of ASEAN this year, where the maritime spat has become the most contentious issue in recent years testing successive hosts’ ability to maintain ASEAN unity. Four out of ten ASEAN member states have claims in the South China Sea.

Mr Vorachit is scheduled to meet Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang on Tuesday before wrapping up his visit in Ho Chi Minh City on Wednesday.


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## BoQ77

*Third Project 11661 frigate for Vietnamese Navy built in Russia*
Military & Defense
April 25, 16:51 UTC+3
The frigate will be put afloat on April 27 to undergo trials




*A Project 11661 Gepard vessel (archive)*
© ITAR-TASS/Mikhail Medvedev

KAZAN, April 25. /TASS/. Russia’s Zelenodolsk Shipyard in the Volga area has built the third Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigate for the Vietnamese Navy, shipyard spokesman Andrey Spiridonov told TASS on Monday.

The frigate will be put afloat on April 27 to undergo running trials, the spokesman added.

"The shipyard has completed the construction of a Gepard-3.9-class frigate for the Vietnamese Navy. The vessel will be floated out on April 27," Spiridonov said.

According to him, the ceremony of floating out the frigate will be attended by the Vietnamese Navy’s delegation.

"The Vietnamese delegation has arrived today to view the ceremony. Representatives of Russia’s arms exporter Rosoboronexport will also take part in the ceremony," the spokesman said.

The Zelenodolsk Shipyard delivered the first two Gepard-3.9-class frigates to the Vietnamese Navy in 2011. After that, Vietnam signed a new contract to receive another two Project 11661 frigates.

The construction of the fourth Project 11661 frigate is nearing completion at the Zelenodolsk Shipyard.



More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/872248

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## Gen Padmanabhan

Carlosa said:


> Very good news to hear about this again. I hope this is for real and up to date because this story broke on May 2012 and then we didn't hear anything about them again. I still have the old articles of that time saved, it was also for 6 ships.. I used to post a lot of material about this on the other forum.
> 
> These are the Kamorta class ships, they are not destroyers, but frigates. In the Indian Navy they are known as corvettes. They are good ASW ships, but the version for India doesn't have anti ship missiles, so that will need to be modified for Vietnam.
> 
> I think the Sigma deal is already dead, the Kamorta class is the replacement for that.
> 
> A simpler version of the Kamorta-class might also be selected for the Philippines.
> 
> Have to wait for more details and confirmation of the weapon systems.



I think Vietnam should choose its own weapon package, should ask to install smaller version of MF-STAR that is on Saar Corvette.
Ask to remove those 2 RBU-6000, instead ask for 8 BrahMos, 16 Barak 8 and 2 torpedo tubes for ASW.

Also ask for access to integrated battle for Vietnam Navy, like of GSAT-7.



Carlosa said:


> Very good news to hear about this again. I hope this is for real and up to date because this story broke on May 2012 and then we didn't hear anything about them again. I still have the old articles of that time saved, it was also for 6 ships.. I used to post a lot of material about this on the other forum.
> 
> These are the Kamorta class ships, they are not destroyers, but frigates. In the Indian Navy they are known as corvettes. They are good ASW ships, but the version for India doesn't have anti ship missiles, so that will need to be modified for Vietnam.
> 
> I think the Sigma deal is already dead, the Kamorta class is the replacement for that.
> 
> A simpler version of the Kamorta-class might also be selected for the Philippines.
> 
> Have to wait for more details and confirmation of the weapon systems.



GSAT-7 military sats are useful not only for integrating whole navy, but also in detecting Ballistic missile launch.





The yellowish equipment is actually IR sensor for detecting ballistic missile launch.

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## Carlosa

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> I think Vietnam should choose its own weapon package, should ask to install smaller version of MF-STAR that is on Saar Corvette.
> Ask to remove those 2 RBU-6000, instead ask for 8 BrahMos, 16 Barak 8 and 2 torpedo tubes for ASW.
> 
> Also ask for access to integrated battle for Vietnam Navy, like of GSAT-7..



Absolutely, that was also my idea, the place where the 2 RBU-6000s are is the ideal place for 8 / 16 Brahmos. For the Barak-8 there are already 2 nice spots on the rear of the ship, at the sides of the hangar and they should be able to hold up to 32 cells.

RBU-6000 can be replaced with Paket-NK which I think is better.

Indian sonars, Indian CMS, Oto Melara 76mm gun made in India, etc, etc.

A ship like this would be far, far better than a Sigma class, really a true pocket destroyer.

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## Aqsuperman

A side view of Molniya class missile ship. A bit lacking in long range air-defense so a new air defense destroyer will be a perfect choice to strengthen our fleet potential


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## BoQ77

Barak-8 is suitable to our need.
@Carlosa : How's about your life in Da Nang?


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## Viet

a look into weaponry storage of SU-30 bombers

R-27 air-to-air missile, air-to-surface missile
Kh-29 anti-ship missile
Kh-31 air-to-surface missile

and for the first time ever revealed to public, the new
*RVV-AE *
medium range, active radar homing air-to-air missile
















an example of fighter jet with fearsome RVV-AE air-to-air-missiles (NATO designation R-77)

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Barak-8 is suitable to our need.
> @Carlosa : How's about your life in Da Nang?



Everything is going fine here, Danang keeps getting better and better man. When are you coming? Its nice to see you here again, the thread needs you.


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## Viet

For the first time ever, revealed to public, images of the headquarters of the Vietnam People´s Army during the Vietnam war, a underground bunker in the premise of the Thang Long Imperial citadel, Hanoi.


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## Viet

carlosa, I can see aegis destroyers on the horizon 


http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/us-may-lift-vietnam-arms-embargo-on-obamas-asia-trip/


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Everything is going fine here, Danang keeps getting better and better man. When are you coming? Its nice to see you here again, the thread needs you.



I, my wife and kids have been in Da Nang last November. My kids love evenings at Helio Center and Dragon Bridge, Linh Ung Pagoda and Hoi An.
We took picture with the Coast Guard ship No. 8005 in Song Thu Shipyard that would be launched next Monday.

I didn't remember exactly what you advise about hotel, we just choose Emily Hotel and Apartment by the sea, that has quite large and good studio room ( location : behind Holiday Beach hotel ) 
view the beach from room





Oh , it's nearly Firework event this week.

And yes, I'm back here!!!


This taken at about 5:30am from the hotel room ( Bao Quyen hotel )

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I, my wife and kids have been in Da Nang last November. My kids love evenings at Helio Center and Dragon Bridge, Linh Ung Pagoda and Hoi An.
> We took picture with the Coast Guard ship No. 8005 in Song Thu Shipyard that would be launched next Monday.
> 
> I didn't remember exactly what you advise about hotel, we just choose Emily Hotel and Apartment by the sea, that has quite large and good studio room ( location : behind Holiday Beach hotel )
> view the beach from room
> View attachment 302422
> 
> 
> Oh , it's nearly Firework event this week.
> 
> And yes, I'm back here!!!
> 
> 
> This taken at about 5:30am from the hotel room ( Bao Quyen hotel )
> View attachment 302420
> 
> View attachment 302421



Oh that's great, send me a private message next time that you come and we can meet.

That hotel has a nice view. There are many good and cheap hotels just meters next to the river between Han river bridge and dragon bridge. Also quite a few within 200 meters of the beach. I like the Holiday beach hotel area a lot. They just built a few nice things on the beach side where they have the beach coffee shop, looks very nice, I go there often.

The Linh Ung Pagoda is my favorite spot in Danang. The Hello center is definitely a great place for kids, they can easily get addicted to it.

Did you go to the marble mountain area?

I'm hoping to see bigger ships made at the Song Thu Shipyard in the future, maybe the DN-4000.

Have a nice holiday this weekend. Take care.

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## Aqsuperman

M46 in action against Chinese incursion. To this day, its remain the longest range artillery in VN arsenal, wich may require some sort of up-range modernization


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Oh that's great, send me a private message next time that you come and we can meet.
> 
> That hotel has a nice view. There are many good and cheap hotels just meters next to the river between Han river bridge and dragon bridge. Also quite a few within 200 meters of the beach. I like the Holiday beach hotel area a lot. They just built a few nice things on the beach side where they have the beach coffee shop, looks very nice, I go there often.
> 
> The Linh Ung Pagoda is my favorite spot in Danang. The Hello center is definitely a great place for kids, they can easily get addicted to it.
> 
> Did you go to the marble mountain area?
> 
> I'm hoping to see bigger ships made at the Song Thu Shipyard in the future, maybe the DN-4000.
> 
> Have a nice holiday this weekend. Take care.



No marble mountain area but Terracotta Park near Hoi An.
Room rate from 22 $ to 25$ for 30-40sqm with sea, river view is ok, many others are cheaper but smaller or limit view.

Regret have no chance to connect to you for some drinks by Hoang Sa road or Han river bank. Seafood is cheap and fresh, and some Foster beer that rarely find in Hanoi.

Da Nang, Hoi An taxi rate isn't cheap as in Hanoi, I still recommend green color Mai Linh taxi for customer care. Yellow color isn't good.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> View attachment 302421


looking damn good, the new boat.

just google and found another pic of the new vessel

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> No marble mountain area but Terracotta Park near Hoi An.
> Room rate from 22 $ to 25$ for 30-40sqm with sea, river view is ok, many others are cheaper but smaller or limit view.
> 
> Regret have no chance to connect to you for some drinks by Hoang Sa road or Han river bank. Seafood is cheap and fresh, and some Foster beer that rarely find in Hanoi.
> 
> Da Nang, Hoi An taxi rate isn't cheap as in Hanoi, I still recommend green color Mai Linh taxi for customer care. Yellow color isn't good.



Man, if you didn't go to marble mountain, then you have to come back again because your visit is not complete, its an amazing place and very unique in Vietnam, the marble carvings are really something else.

That hotel sounds really good.

Yes, the taxies are more expensive in Danang for some reason, actually Vietnam taxies are the most expensive in ASEAN, even 30% more than in Singapore. Small taxi starts at 12,300 here compared to 10,000 per km in Hanoi.

Mai Linh taxies are the best, but actually the yellow ones (Taxi tien sa) are usually pretty good, I use them often and never had problems, I think you had a bad driver. can also rent motorcycles.



Viet said:


> carlosa, I can see aegis destroyers on the horizon
> 
> 
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/us-may-lift-vietnam-arms-embargo-on-obamas-asia-trip/



Don't dream too much bro, Indian Kamorta frigates have a 1000 times better chance than AEGIS destroyers.

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## Barmaley

New Gepards. Seems like they were a bit redesigned.

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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> New Gepards. Seems like they were a bit redesigned.



What are the design changes? I mean, I know about the addition of the ASW package, but is there anything else?


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## Viet

the third Gepard seems having the same specs as the two former ones except the ASW features.

_Gepard_-class 3.9 frigate, displacement of 2,200 tons, a length of 102 meters, a maximum speed of 23 knots, a crew of 103, cruising range of 5,000 miles

1 x Uran-E anti-ship missile system
1 x AK-176M 76.2-mm gun
1 x Palma air defense artillery system
2 x AK-630M 30-mm gun mounts
533-mm torpedo tubes.
can carry 1x Ka-28/ Ka-31 Helix naval helicopter.
in addition, it is said can detect light objects under and above water, install active and passive obstacles, install mines. and maybe it can more we don´t know yet. this Gepard costs much more than the previous ones.

the vessel is able to withstand 1 or 2 hits of enemy antiship missiles or torpedo. The hull, made of low-alloy steel, is divided into ten watertight compartments. Aluminium-magnesium alloy is used in the upper superstructure. It is designed to remain afloat even when two side by side compartments are flooded.

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## Nike

huuh, Russian need forever to finished those ships.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> huuh, Russian need forever to finished those ships.


the project was delayed about 1 year due to the inability of Ukraine to deliver ship diesel powered engines. from the specs, the Gepard is powered by a combined diesel or gas propulsion system comprising 2 gas turbines and 1 Type 61D diesel engine. In addition, the shipboard power is generated by 3 x 600kW diesel alternator sets. I can understand the Ukraine people have much better things to do than delivering military grade parts to Russia.

so what is the alternative?

not much info is released, but we all can assume the diesel engines come from Germany, or more precise from the german company MTU headquartered in Friedrichshafen, type MTU-8000 diesel engine.

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## Nike

Viet said:


> the project was delayed about 1 year due to the inability of Ukraine to deliver ship diesel powered engines. from the specs, the Gepard is powered by a combined diesel or gas propulsion system comprising 2 gas turbines and 1 Type 61D diesel engine. In addition, the shipboard power is generated by 3 x 600kW diesel alternator sets. I can understand the Ukraine people have much better things to do than delivering military grade parts to Russia.
> 
> so what is the alternative?
> 
> not much info is released, but we all can assume the diesel engines come from Germany, or more precise from the german company MTU headquartered in Friedrichshafen, type MTU-8000 diesel engine.



i am concerning about Russian shipyard ability to delivering their newly built warships, this not the first cases. Admiral Gorshkov, Vikramaditya, is the other cases not to mention Algeria corvettes order.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> i am concerning about Russian shipyard ability to delivering their newly built warships, this not the first cases. Admiral Gorshkov, Vikramaditya, is the other cases not to mention Algeria corvettes order.


well, that question should be answered by our russian comrades here. I think Russia lost much of her former naval industrial complex because of the collapse of USSR, notably in Belarus and Ukraine. but thing is about to change. and it will take time a bit. I wish Russia is willing to transfer more of her shipbuilding technology to us, so we can build naval ships on our costs by ourselves.

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## Aqsuperman

Well the new is Russia will no longer use Ukraine engines on our third Gepard pair. The current pair engines is the result of VN direct intervention into the affair by buying from Ukraine ourself. I feel quite curious what is the candidate for our third Gepard pair though. 

BPS-500 class HQ 381, long forgotten and remain only a training ship for missiles ship crew now fully prepare to tackle new challenge, to India


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## Viet

Hanoi, April, 21

"The United States and *Vietnam* share interest in maintaining peace and stability in the region.

"So does China. But its massive land reclamation projects in the South China Sea and increasing militarization of these outposts fuels regional tension and raise serious questions about China's intentions."

_Antony Blinken_






_U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken, center, during a visit to Vietnam National University in Hanoi._

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## Viet

DEFENSE

*Vietnam To Receive the Last ‘Classic’ Flankers*
by Vladimir Karnozov
April 28, 2016, 9:28 AM





The Sukhoi Su-30M2 is an air superiority version of the Flanker for the Russian air force. (Photo: Vladimir Karnozov)


The imminent delivery of from Russia of two Sukhoi Su-30MK2 twin-seat versions to Vietnam will make the end of production for the “classic” version of the Flanker multirole fighter. But production of advanced “generation 4++” versions—the Su-30SM, Su-34 and Su-35—featuring markedly different airframes and more powerful engines will continue through at least 2020.

Vietnam previously took delivery of 30 out of the 32 Su-30MK2s that it ordered in three batches during 2009, 2012 and 2013. Delivery of the final pair will bring its total fleet to 48, including Su-27SKs, Su-27UBKs as well as Su-30MK2s.

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## Viet

rumour says VN has interest in the high performance trainer warplane Yak-130. if becoming reality, the aircraft will replace the existing fleet of L-39 trainer aircraft.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/russia-may-deliver-new-fighter-jets-to-myanmar-by-end-of-2016/

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## Aqsuperman

A nice view of an AAA , probably a twin Bofors mount

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## Viet

Vietnam Coast Guard







































greeting special guests: Chinese coast guard personnel (in black)
a bowl of pho for all






_



_

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## CCP

Viet said:


> Vietnam Coast Guard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> greeting special guests: Chinese coast guard personnel (in black)
> a bowl of pho for all



vietnam coast guard and Chinese coast guards(yesterday).
vietnamese was yelling" here is vietnamese water space...." while runing for its life...

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## Viet

Politics | Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:53pm EDT
Related: Election 2016,  Politics

*Pentagon chief would back lifting restrictions on U.S. arms to Vietnam*
WASHINGTON | By Phil Stewart






_U.S. Secretary of Defense Ash Carter testifies on operations against the Islamic State, on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S., April 28, 2016. 

Reuters/Jonathan Ernst_


U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter said on Thursday he would support lifting restrictions on the sale of weapons to Vietnam, in the latest sign of thawing ties between former enemies whose focus has shifted in recent years to China's military buildup.

When asked by Senator John McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, if he would support lifting the restrictions, Carter said at a hearing: "We've discussed this in the past and I appreciate your leadership in that regard, chairman, and yes."

Carter did not elaborate, although his comments come ahead of a planned visit to Vietnam by U.S. President Barack Obama late next month.

The United States partially lifted a long-time ban on lethal weapons sales to Vietnam in October 2014, nearly 40 years after the end of the Vietnam War, to help the country patrol and defend itself in the South China Sea in the face of growing naval challenges from China. At the time, U.S. officials said future sales could include airborne systems.

Carter pledged on a visit to Vietnam last year to provide it $18 million to help its coast guard buy U.S. patrol boats.

But the United States has said that fully lifting the embargo will depend on improved human rights conditions in Vietnam.

"There are a number of factors that we must consider with regard to lifting the ban, including progress on human rights," the State Department's top human rights official, Tom Malinowski, said on Tuesday after an annual human rights dialogue with Vietnam on Monday.

(Reporting by Phil Stewart Writing by Lesley Wroughton; Editing by Toni Reinhold and James Dalgleish)


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## Viet

Moskow, April 25

Russian Defense Minister, General Sergey Shoigu welcomes General Ngô Xuân Lịch, Vietnam´s new defence minister. Talks on traditional Vietnam-Russia defence dialogue, and attending the 5th Moscow International Security Conference.


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## Viet

Mig-17 fleet is retired, and soon does Mig-21 fighter fleet.


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## Aqsuperman

CCP said:


> vietnamese was yelling" here is vietnamese water space...." while runing for its life...


Wow such high level of logic lol, let see when 2 - 3 of our ships surround 1 of your , wonder some brave Chinese will stand idle and take a pincer ram TO THE FACE :v :v :v Always force other to do things in away that benefit you and if we dont, its "coward", "running for its life" :v  Brave as hell when you got several others stand behind you eh ?  

Grenadier in training

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## Viet

If I count correctly, in the video there were at least 5 Chinese vessels surrounding, chasing one Vietnamese coast guard ship. Great. Chinese bullying and harassment at best. Sure, we should stand still so they can run over us. Making thing as easy as possible for them.

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## Viet

the time for Ba Son shipyard at the Saigon river, which produces warships as Molynia is running out. the HCM city authority just gives the goahead for transforming the area into a modern commercial hub. at the cost of $5 billion. the shipyard will be relocated to another place, to the Hiep Phuoc seaport complex, Nha Be district.


founded in 1790.






today. Ba Son Shipyard with colonial era warehouses







in 5 years


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## Aqsuperman

Btr 152 upgreade with new engine. Shoyld be a efective plafform for ground target and short range air defense


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## CCP

Mokaman said:


> Hey Girl @CCP ... What is so funny and get excited for, girl? It not even a battle, just coast guard boats chasing and yelling at each others like girl fights...Let me tell you something girl @CCP , coast guard is the most girly branch of the military, they are not train to fight but just patrolling the sea... Real battles have blood and dead, and we will find out who is the bravest



Well, Chinese PLAN tried their best to make "brave" vietnamese fight at 1988.

1.First, we cut rope of vietnamese landing boats and they do not fight.
2.Then, we tear down their flag and viets still did not want to fight.
3.Eventually , we have to grab their guns and luckily one of them miss fired.

Result:
70+ viets were killed.

1 PLAN soldier(杨志亮) wounded ( the one who grab loaded vietnamese AK-47, the real brave one!)

杨志亮





He is a high rank officer of PLAN now.







____________________________________________________________________________

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands
Also, you may remember how 4 small minesweepers(500 tons) faced and defeat 4 much larger vietmese warships[3 Frigates(3000 tons) + 1 Corvette].

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## Viet

CCP said:


> Well, Chinese PLAN tried their best to make "brave" vietnamese fight at 1988.
> 
> 1.First, we cut rope of vietnamese landing boats and they do not fight.
> 2.Then, we tear down their flag and viets still did not want to fight.
> 3.Eventually , we have to grab their guns and luckily one of them miss fired.
> 
> Result:
> 70+ viets were killed.
> 
> 1 PLAN soldier(杨志亮) wounded ( the one who grab loaded vietnamese AK-47, the real brave one!)
> 
> 杨志亮
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is a high rank officer of PLAN now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands
> Also, you may remember how 4 small minesweepers(500 tons) faced and defeat 4 much larger vietmese warships[3 Frigates(3000 tons) + 1 Corvette].


as for clash in the spratlys, defeating Vietnam naval landing group is not really naval battle as the ships weren´t backed by warships. as for paracels, ok, I admit, the navy performance was a total failure.

how about your performance against Japan?


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## Viet

*French naval ship to visit Vietnam next week*


Thanh Nien News
Saturday, April 30, 2016





_French amphibious assault helicopter carrier Tonnerre _


French naval ship *Tonnerre *will call at Cam Ranh Port from May 2-6, signalling "the desire to increase cooperation between the armed forces and governments" of France of Vietnam, the French embassy said.

The Mistral-class landing helicopter dock, one of the biggest ships of the French Navy, is hosting 200 cadets of the French navy and foreign navies on board, the embassy said in a press release.

During the port call, the crew will participate in various activities and meetings with Vietnamese authorities in order to promote the tightening of friendly ties and defense between the two countries.

The French Defence Minister is scheduled to visit Vietnam in June, and the *French President* in the fall, the embassy said.


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## Viet

from Russia with love

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## Viet

*Vietnamese Navy vessel heads for int’l military exercise*


By *Vu Huong*, Thanh Nien News
April 30, 2016










_Officers onboard Vietnamese Navy ship codenamed 381. Photo: Vu Huong _


A Vietnamese Navy vessel on Thursday left Cam Ranh Port for Brunei and Singapore to join an international military exercise focused on maritime security and counterterrorism.

The ship codenamed 381 will take part in the ASEAN Defense Ministers’ Meeting Plus Maritime Security and Counterterrorism Exercise 2016 from May 2 to 12.

Navies of the 10 countries of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) will participate in the drills, along with those from Australia, China, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia, South Korea and the US.

Approximately 3,000 personnel, 18 ships, 17 helicopters, two maritime patrol aircraft along with Special Forces from the 18 nations will be deployed during the exercise, The Diplomat reported.

Participating vessels will sail from Brunei and conduct the drills along the way to Singapore, where a concluding counterterrorism scenario will take place, according to the report.


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## Viet

"enough is enough"

Facing the possibility of a two front war, China in the north and Cambodia in the south, Vietnam decided to take the initiative. On 25 December 1978, Christmas day, Vietnamese armed forces began a full scale invasion of Cambodia, with the aim to annihilate the Red Khmer army under Pol Pot, before the Chinese could have mobilized resources to help its ally.

Supported by artillery, navy and airforce, with main thrust being carried out by a Vietnamese elite tank army, the tanks drove down the main highway, smashing Cambodian defence lines along the way.

the invasion army arrived the capital of Cambodia Pnom Penh after 2 weeks. a blitzkrieg. the cambodian army surrendered, with the rest fleeing to Thailand.

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## Aqsuperman

CCP said:


> Well, Chinese PLAN tried their best to make "brave" vietnamese fight at 1988.
> 
> 1.First, we cut rope of vietnamese landing boats and they do not fight.
> 2.Then, we tear down their flag and viets still did not want to fight.
> 3.Eventually , we have to grab their guns and luckily one of them miss fired.
> 
> Result:
> 70+ viets were killed.
> 
> 1 PLAN soldier(杨志亮) wounded ( the one who grab loaded vietnamese AK-47, the real brave one!)



Lol love the way you say about the Jonhson South Reef Skirmish. Express clearly what you want us to do so you can escalate the encounter. We only have combat enginneer and transport ship at that battle with little heavy and personal weapons. Vietnam, Soviet and many other countries know China tactics to provoke them to fire first so they can claim that they been attacked and start grabbing the lands. "Brave" ? Oh no, provoke somone to fire to you can wage a skirmish is not brave, soldiers that hold their fire until being fired at is the brave ones. Quite funny though, this remind me about some incidents and battles in the first stage of Sino-Japan war, China nowaday praise their troops back then when they are ordered not to response to Japan provoking fire and harrashment so as not to escalate the tension and to have more time preparing for the long war. By the way you are telling your "view" of the battle, Japan back then should be praised right ? "the real brave one" ? 

About the result of 1974 battle, those guys while heavily armed is not realy up to date and low on both moral and experience. The fire rate on those ship is slow and so their speed. To say a high tonnage equal high combat effetive is dead wrong. And about the 1988 battle, we all know that China plan is to seize all 3 islands in the vicinity , still you only got 1. With such "success" in the battle why dont you step it up ? 

ZSU 23 4 live firing excersise


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## Viet

Killing unarmed sailors is not really a sign of strength and braveness, but an unethical act.

I can tell here another story.

In the great battle of Ninh-kieu (North Vietnam) of Dec 4, 1426, 100,000 men Ming army led by chinese general Wang Tong were encircled, ambushed. at the end of the battle, only 10,000 Chinese soldiers survived and were sent to prisoner camps.

Lê Lợi


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## CCP

Viet said:


> Killing unarmed sailors is not really a sign of strength and braveness, but an unethical act.
> 
> I can tell here another story.
> 
> In the great battle of Ninh-kieu (North Vietnam) of Dec 4, 1426, 100,000 men Ming army led by chinese general Wang Tong were encircled, ambushed. at the end of the battle, only 10,000 Chinese soldiers survived and were sent to prisoner camps.
> 
> Lê Lợi



1. Do you recognize AK-47 a weapon?

2.You can tell whatever the story you want but the truth is :
_"
......For the next thousand years, what is now northern Vietnam remained mostly under Chinese rule.[23] Early independence movements, such as those of the Trưng Sisters and Lady Triệu, were only temporarily successful, though the region gained a longer period of independence as Vạn Xuân under the Anterior Lý dynasty between AD 544 and 602.[24] By the early 10th century, Vietnam had gained autonomy, but not sovereignty, under the Khúc family....."_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam


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## Viet

CCP said:


> 1. Do you recognize AK-47 a weapon?
> 
> 2.You can tell whatever the story you want but the truth is :
> _"
> ......For the next thousand years, what is now northern Vietnam remained mostly under Chinese rule.[23] Early independence movements, such as those of the Trưng Sisters and Lady Triệu, were only temporarily successful, though the region gained a longer period of independence as Vạn Xuân under the Anterior Lý dynasty between AD 544 and 602.[24] By the early 10th century, Vietnam had gained autonomy, but not sovereignty, under the Khúc family....."_
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam


Being a part of Imperial tributary system of China does not equal loss of sovereignty. Vietnam or other tribute paying countries did not necessarily follow chinese law and order, neither subject to chinese foreign policy nor tax regime. sure, Chinese imperial court saw things with different views and eyes, and considered some of Vietnam domestic and foreign policy as provocation. but end of the story is, although Vietnam being a part of tribute system, we have autonomy.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/history-tributary-states.htm



​


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## CCP

Viet said:


> Being a part of Imperial tributary system of China does not equal loss of sovereignty. Vietnam or other tribute paying countries did not necessarily follow chinese law and order, neither subject to chinese foreign policy nor tax regime. sure, Chinese imperial court saw things with different views and eyes, and considered some of Vietnam domestic and foreign policy as provocation. but end of the story is, although Vietnam being a part of tribute system, we have autonomy.
> 
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/history-tributary-states.htm
> 
> 
> 
> ​



Ok, let me help you...
_
" the next thousand years, what is now northern Vietnam remained mostly under Chinese rule."
_
Direct rule! include law, tax, foreign....etc


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## Viet

CCP said:


> Ok, let me help you...
> _
> " the next thousand years, what is now northern Vietnam remained mostly under Chinese rule."
> _
> Direct rule! include law, tax, foreign....etc


yes, direct rule, but read the article again, that is the period from 111 bc to 938 ad.

Chinese direct rule ended with the establishment of the Ngo dynasty in year 939.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngô_dynasty


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## BoQ77

Mistral-class ship made port call in Cam Ranh


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## Aqsuperman

AGS 17 automatic grenade launcher, with M-79 and Mikor, its formed a formidable mid range weapon


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## Viet

Vietnam "inherited" 7 US transport aircraft Lockheed C-130. the planes played a major part in the military campaign against Cambodia in 1978.













also, US stuffs:

M113 armor transporter, M48 Patton tank
















and the mother of artillery M107 175mm. some should continue to be in service today.

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## Aqsuperman

All US medium to heavy equipments have almost phase out of service or in storage now. Like this guy


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## Viet

I post here some more pics of French warship Tonnerre to the Cam Ranh bay. Joint drills for unplanned encounters with the Vietnam Navy is planned. More fun games are coming. French subs are sold like hot cakes today.

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## BoQ77

KCG visit Da Nang


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## Viet

Something different, maybe we can modify the design and make a warship from it.


Shipyard Vard in Vung Tau (Vietnam)







Yacht Made in Vietnam

specs:


length 270 foot
59-foot beam
max 15.4 knots, cruising speed of 12 knots
the hull fully made in Vietnam owned by the Norwegian commercial builder Vard
steel hull with a class notation of ICE-C allowing it to operate in light ice conditions
can travel for a month without having to make landfall, 

36 guests
a full helicopter pad and hangar, indoor and outdoor swimming pools, and an on-deck soccer pitch, but allows for flexibility with the design

feature the latest navigational technologies, such as dynamic positioning system that keeps the yacht set in one place via GPS, and joystick maneuvering for easy navigating and docking
cost $62 million










- See more at: http://robbreport.com/boating-yacht...t-designed-explore-globe#sthash.x1CAK75V.dpuf

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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> What are the design changes? I mean, I know about the addition of the ASW package, but is there anything else?



The hull is changed.

The hull shapes become more correct from the point of view of the naval design and also the ship now looks more beautiful thanks to them.
In comparison to the first series of Gepard




and today

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## Viet

Danang May 3.

Coming a long way from South Korea, a welcome greeting to the vessel of South Korean Coast Guard.


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## Viet

*Vietnam Urges US to Lift Lethal Weapons Ban Amid S. China Sea Tensions*

May 02, 2016 6:00 PM
Voice of America




_FILE - A Vietnamese coast guard officer looks at a Vietnamese coast guard vessel in the South China Sea, May 14, 2014. Vietnam has faced increasingly aggressive Chinese territorial claims to sections of the South China Sea, where Vietnamese maritime patrols have faced off against Chinese naval forces._


AUSTIN, TEXAS— Vietnam's ambassador to the United States has called on President Barack Obama to fully lift a "lethal weapons" embargo on the Southeast Asian nation.

Addressing the recent Vietnam War Summit in Austin, Texas, Ambassador Pham Quang Vinh said Obama's planned visit this month only underscores the strength of U.S.-Vietnamese relations, and that a full relaxation of the ban should reflect that level of trust.

"Today, Vietnam and the U.S. have a solid foundation for a stronger partnership," he said. "Vietnam urges the U.S. to fully lift the lethal weapons ban, [because] Vietnam believes that this element of barrier of the past should be removed to reflect our full normalization of relations started two decades ago, and the current level of our comprehensive partnership."

On the day Vinh spoke, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter said in a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that he would support lifting restrictions on the sale of weapons to Vietnam.






_Vietnam Ambassador to the United States Pham Quang Vinh delivered the speech at the Vietnam War Summit._


The U.S. partially lifted its three decade ban on lethal arms sales to Vietnam in October 2014, immediately after Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, who also is deputy prime minister, met with Secretary of State John Kerry in Washington.

The sudden shift in policy drew criticism from various rights groups, including New York-based Human Rights Watch, which has long protested Hanoi's treatment of opposition figures and ethnic and religious minorities.





_FILE - Pham Quang Vinh, Vietnam Ambassador to the U.S., meets Luci Baines Johnson, a daughter of former President Lyndon B. Johnson, during the Vietnam War Summit at the LBJ Presidential Library in Austin, Texas, April 28, 2016.

_
At the time, the State Department described the move as "allowing for the future transfer of maritime security-related" military hardware to its former foe, and said that because the U.S. is aware of human rights concerns about Vietnam, all sales would be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Vietnam has since faced increasingly aggressive Chinese territorial claims to large swaths of the resource-rich South China Sea, where Vietnamese maritime patrols have faced off against Chinese naval forces on several occasions.

Hanoi has long denied accusations from human rights organizations on media censorship and restricted Internet access, saying it does not jail dissidents, but imprisons only convicted criminals.

Kerry is expected to join the state visit by Obama, who will be the third consecutive U.S. president to make the trip.


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## Viet

*US, Vietnam complete first phase of dioxin cleanup in Da Nang*

By Nguyen Tu, Thanh Nien News
DA NANG - Wednesday, May 04, 2016






_US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius (R) and Vietnam's Deputy Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh feel the soil that has been cleared of dioxin in the central city of Da Nang on May 3, 2016. Photo credit: Nguyen Dong/VnExpress_

US and Vietnamese officials on Tuesday announced that the first phase of a *US$84-million* dioxin cleanup project at a former US airbase in the central city of Da Nang has been completed.

The toxic chemical was removed from 45,000 cubic meters of excavated soil and sediment at the site, US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius and Deputy Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh told the ceremony to mark the first phase’s success. The ceremony was attended by Vietnam’s Deputy Prime Minister Vu Duc Dam.

That volume of treated soil and sediment will be given to Airports Corporation of Vietnam for being used as fill material for a project to expand Da Nang International Airport, heard the ceremony.

Under the two-phase project in Da Nang, which started in August 2012 with funds from the US Agency for International Development (USAID), thermal desorption technology has been used to heat the contaminated soil and sediment to a high temperature to destroy the dioxin.

The soil and sediment will be then tested to ensure it is no longer contaminated before being removed from the containment structure.

The second phase of the project, which will treat another 45,000 cubic meters of dioxin-contaminated excavated soil and sediment, is scheduled to begin at the end of this year.

The project is the US’s first direct involvement in cleaning up dioxin in Vietnam as both sides have worked together to mitigate the long-lasting effects of the war.

The Da Nang site is one of two dozen former American sites that remain contaminated with dioxin via Agent Orange. The US military dumped some 75 million liters of Agent Orange and other herbicides over Vietnam’s jungles during the war to destroy the ground cover and crops of Vietnamese forces.

Up to 4.8 million Vietnamese people were directly exposed to Agent Orange and other chemicals that have been linked to cancers, birth defects and other chronic diseases during the Vietnam War, according to the Vietnam Red Cross.

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## Viet

more guests to the Cam Ranh bay international port.

May 2. Russia’s hydrographic vessel Marshal Gelovani stops at the base, taking basic supplies for its voyage: waters, fuels, foods. the bay increasingly becomes a major service base for foreign ships travelling between the three big seas: South China sea, Western Pacific and Indian Ocean. nice, I see dollar rolling.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> *US, Vietnam complete first phase of dioxin cleanup in Da Nang*
> 
> By Nguyen Tu, Thanh Nien News
> DA NANG - Wednesday, May 04, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius (R) and Vietnam's Deputy Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh feel the soil that has been cleared of dioxin in the central city of Da Nang on May 3, 2016. Photo credit: Nguyen Dong/VnExpress_
> 
> US and Vietnamese officials on Tuesday announced that the first phase of a *US$84-million* dioxin cleanup project at a former US airbase in the central city of Da Nang has been completed.
> 
> The toxic chemical was removed from 45,000 cubic meters of excavated soil and sediment at the site, US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius and Deputy Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh told the ceremony to mark the first phase’s success. The ceremony was attended by Vietnam’s Deputy Prime Minister Vu Duc Dam.
> 
> That volume of treated soil and sediment will be given to Airports Corporation of Vietnam for being used as fill material for a project to expand Da Nang International Airport, heard the ceremony.
> 
> Under the two-phase project in Da Nang, which started in August 2012 with funds from the US Agency for International Development (USAID), thermal desorption technology has been used to heat the contaminated soil and sediment to a high temperature to destroy the dioxin.
> 
> The soil and sediment will be then tested to ensure it is no longer contaminated before being removed from the containment structure.
> 
> The second phase of the project, which will treat another 45,000 cubic meters of dioxin-contaminated excavated soil and sediment, is scheduled to begin at the end of this year.
> 
> The project is the US’s first direct involvement in cleaning up dioxin in Vietnam as both sides have worked together to mitigate the long-lasting effects of the war.
> 
> The Da Nang site is one of two dozen former American sites that remain contaminated with dioxin via Agent Orange. The US military dumped some 75 million liters of Agent Orange and other herbicides over Vietnam’s jungles during the war to destroy the ground cover and crops of Vietnamese forces.
> 
> Up to 4.8 million Vietnamese people were directly exposed to Agent Orange and other chemicals that have been linked to cancers, birth defects and other chronic diseases during the Vietnam War, according to the Vietnam Red Cross.





Could you share a post of this to my thread of [1973-2015] ? Thanks


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Could you share a post of this to my thread of [1973-2015] ? Thanks


klaro ich mach et


----------



## Mokaman

CCP said:


> Well, Chinese PLAN tried their best to make "brave" vietnamese fight at 1988.
> 
> 1.First, we cut rope of vietnamese landing boats and they do not fight.
> 2.Then, we tear down their flag and viets still did not want to fight.
> 3.Eventually , we have to grab their guns and luckily one of them miss fired.
> 
> Result:
> 70+ viets were killed.
> 
> 1 PLAN soldier(杨志亮) wounded ( the one who grab loaded vietnamese AK-47, the real brave one!)
> 
> 杨志亮
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is a high rank officer of PLAN now.




Hey girl @CCP ,You call a battle when your frigates fought transport and landing crafts and shooting soldiers in water? It take a lot of bravery to shoot from PLA boats at VPA soldiers most of them unarmed standing in water.….. When you have +70 enemies dead and you have 0, it's not a battle but it's either an AMBUSH or a MASS EXECUTION. It did take much to have an award of bravery in the PLA, just grab a gun from a soldier unwilling to fight and you will have a medal... Trust me, if that VPA soldier want to fight, your general will be dead before he reach that AK... Lack of combat experience among PLA troop, mean that PLA give medals like Mc Donald give toys in Happy meals. The last prime minister of Viet Nam, Nguyen Tan Dung was wounded 3 times during the war against the Americans... Do China have any leader with that kind of combat experience and bravery?






Brave PLA soldiers shooting from boats at Vietnamese soldiers (most unarmed) standing in water on reefs.

For bravery of VPA, go ask the French, Americans, South Koreans, Aussies, PLA, Khmer Rouge, Thai, Hmong, ect... All of them have fought against VPA soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_South_Reef_Skirmish


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## Mokaman

One of the best picture of the war: Early on the war, this picture was took by a North Vietnamese photographer at the moment when South Vietnamese troop got flanked by the Viet Cong. All the South Vietnamese was killed or captured.


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## Viet

"Vietnam has an important location for the maintenance of the Southeast Asia security. It is also situated strategically on the many transporting sea routes of Japan to other countries."

"During my last visit to Vietnam two years ago, Japan promised to provide six used vessels to Vietnam and this process has been completed."

"Moreover, we are currently providing Vietnam with new patrol ships. In the meantime, we have implemented various human resource training programs to bring Vietnamese personnel to train in Japan such as those from the Vietnam Marine Police."

"The government, enterprises, and citizens of Japan will help train human resources for Vietnam’s industry to complete its proposed industrialization."


_Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida
May 5th 2016_

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## Aqsuperman

a Naval infantry TAR-21 with the 40mm grenade launcher detached. I wonder can we use it as a stand-alone weapon ?


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Asks Japan for Coast Guard Vessels*




By *Reuters *2016-05-05 20:44:24

Vietnam has asked Japan to provide vessels to strengthen its coast guard, a Japanese official said on Thursday, in the latest sign of growing ties among the states locked in maritime rows with China.

The request emerged during talks between visiting Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida and Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, a Japanese spokesman said.

"Vietnam wants new vessels," Masato Otaka told reporters, adding that timing, methods of delivery, costs and quantity of vessels had not yet been decided.

Vietnam has been modernising its military and recently bought six advanced Kilo-class submarines from Russia.

Russia and India are the main source of advanced weapons, training and intelligence cooperation. Hanoi is also building ties with the United States and its Japanese, Australian and Filipino allies, as well as Europe and Israel.

"Vietnam feels it needs to strengthen its coast guard generally, and that's why we've responded," Otaka told reporters, adding that the vessel delivery "was not directly linked to the South China Sea."

On Friday Kishida is scheduled to attend a joint government meeting that will mainly focus on economic cooperation, Otaka said.

Japan is the second-biggest investor in Vietnam after South Korea, with existing projects totalling $39 billion as of April 2016, based on Vietnam's government data.

Two Japanese warships visited Cam Ranh Bay in central Vietnam in April, the first port call of its kind.

Japan also has warming relations with the Philippines, with which it signed a deal last year on defence equipment and technology.

China claims almost the entire South China Sea, believed to have huge deposits of oil and gas, and is building islands on reefs to bolster its claims. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims to parts of the waters, through which about $5 trillion in trade is shipped every year.

Tokyo has no claims in the waterway, but worries about China's growing military reach into sea lanes through which much of Japan's ship-borne trade passes.

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## Aqsuperman

Joint Training in ADMM+


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> a Naval infantry TAR-21 with the 40mm grenade launcher detached. I wonder can we use it as a stand-alone weapon ?


personally I would take a Galil rifle 31 as it is more handy, lighter.




plus a pistol and a knife for close contact.

or if someone likes, that only exists in Vietnam: you take a Galil 32, add granate launcher M203 (originated from US assault rifle M16), and voila, a new Galil 32.


M203























for personal favourite, you can choose your granates from a wide choice, different tastes:







- M381, M386, M406 - đạn nổ phá mảnh được thiết kế để tiêu diệt sinh lực bộ binh với bán kính sát thương 4,5 m.

- M433 - đạn xuyên lõm-phá mảnh với khả năng xuyên thép lên tới 5 cm.

- M397, M397A1 - đạn "nhảy", sau khi rơi xuống đất đạn sẽ nảy lên 1,5 m mới phát nổ.

- M651 - đạn hơi cay dùng trong nhiệm vụ chống bạo động.

- M585, M661, M662 - đạn pháo hiệu có các màu sắc khác nhau (trắng, xanh lá cây, đỏ).

- M583A1 - đạn chiếu sáng với thời gian cháy lên đến 40 giây.

- M676, M680, M682 - đạn khói với các màu xanh đỏ, trắng.


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> Hey girl @CCP ,You call a battle when your frigates fought transport and landing crafts and shooting soldiers in water? It take a lot of bravery to shoot from PLA boats at VPA soldiers most of them unarmed standing in water.….. When you have +70 enemies dead and you have 0, it's not a battle but it's either an AMBUSH or a MASS EXECUTION. It did take much to have an award of bravery in the PLA, just grab a gun from a soldier unwilling to fight and you will have a medal... Trust me, if that VPA soldier want to fight, your general will be dead before he reach that AK... Lack of combat experience among PLA troop, mean that PLA give medals like Mc Donald give toys in Happy meals. The last prime minister of Viet Nam, Nguyen Tan Dung was wounded 3 times during the war against the Americans... Do China have any leader with that kind of combat experience and bravery?
> 
> View attachment 303675
> 
> 
> Brave PLA soldiers shooting from boats at Vietnamese soldiers (most unarmed) standing in water on reefs.
> 
> For bravery of VPA, go ask the French, Americans, South Koreans, Aussies, PLA, Khmer Rouge, Thai, Hmong, ect... All of them have fought against VPA soldiers.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_South_Reef_Skirmish



interesting comment. So what you expect? A knight vs. knights fight like in the Middle Ages?





The new warships, fighters, or missiles delivery to Vietnam that shown in this thread are all useless, aren't they? All that you need is the bravery of the Vietnam soldiers. Because the bravery of VPA can help Vietnam to pave the road to Beijing.

If there is anyone that should take the responsibility for the death of the VN soldiers, it is not PLA. But the VPA leadership that send the soldiers to stand in water with few naval protection.

Some pictures taken during the Gulf War. According to you, the pilots of the US fighters or bombers should feel shameful, because they kill thousands of Iraq soldiers that "unarmed (to air) standing in desert"


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## jhungary

Aqsuperman said:


> a Naval infantry TAR-21 with the 40mm grenade launcher detached. I wonder can we use it as a stand-alone weapon ?



You cannot use a detached M203 alone, you either need an adapter or a complete kits

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> interesting comment. So what you expect? A knight vs. knights fight like in the Middle Ages?
> 
> 
> The new warships, fighters, or missiles delivery to Vietnam that shown in this thread are all useless, aren't they? All that you need is the bravery of the Vietnam soldiers. Because the bravery of VPA can help Vietnam to pave the road to Beijing.
> 
> If there is anyone that should take the responsibility for the death of the VN soldiers, it is not PLA. But the VPA leadership that send the soldiers to stand in water with few naval protection.
> 
> Some pictures taken during the Gulf War. According to you, the pilots of the US fighters or bombers should feel shameful, because they kill thousands of Iraq soldiers that "unarmed (to air) standing in desert"


technically in 1988, when this chinese staged show happened, VN and CN were still at war, so killing our sailors armed or unarmed should be ok. you say it we can blame ourselves. but I wonder why you continue sinking our civil boats with the aim to kill our people even both countries formally ended hostility in 1991?


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> technically in 1988, when this chinese staged show happened, VN and CN were still at war, so killing our sailors armed or unarmed should be ok. you say it we can blame ourselves. but I wonder why you continue sinking our civil boats with the aim to kill our people even both countries formally ended hostility in 1991?



I'm sorry for the traffic accidents, I'm really sorry!

Fortunately, we are right now improving the infrastructure systems in the South China Sea, incl. a better traffic management system, just like the traffic lights shown below. Hope the tragedy won't happen again.

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## Viet

yes, I also wish the return of dinosaurs to earth, and so peace will prevail. may the beacon lights up our way. yes, we all wish the future generation of Vietnam will benefit greatly from the peaceful rise.

ending topic

Junior Army School

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## Viet

Pictures of the launch of the 6th Kilo Attack Submarine (HQ 187) last September. the sub is currently on sea trails, and will be reportedly delivered soon.

Specs:

636 MV class (Kilo), fast-attack submarine (SSK), diesel-electric powered, max range 6,000 miles, crew of 57, top speed 20 knots, 434 miles under water with 2.7 knots at quiet speed
surface displacement 2,350 tons, submerged 3,950 tons, 242 feet in length
improved stealth features through removal of flooding ports and treating the hull with multilayer anechoic rubber tiles
tiles fitted on casings and fins to absorb active sonar waves, shielding sounds from within the submarine thus reducing the range of detection of passive sonar
6 x 533 mm torpedo tubes, loaded with mines, torpedoes and kalibr cruise missiles against subs, ships, land targets
Manpads Strela-3 anti-aircraft missiles
tasks: anti-submarine, anti-shipping warfare, coastal defence, mine laying, general reconnaissance, patrol

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## Aqsuperman

IMI Negev with magazine. This SAW can use both magazine and ammo belt.


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## Mokaman

jhungary said:


> You cannot use a detached M203 alone, you either need an adapter or a complete kits
> 
> View attachment 303828



False, you can fire a M203 grenade launcher without being attached to a rifle or support. @Aqsuperman The M203 have no form of safety to prevent it being fired by itself alone. The problem firing M203 alone is the recoil, similar recoil to a 12 gauge, and you have no form of stock, grip, or hand hold to stabilize your fire...Just imagine fire a shotgun 12 gauge by only holding the cannon. ...So it's horrible and crazy !!!! But with some imaginations, you could build something around M203 like tied it around a long piece of wood your stick on the ground to fire like a mortar


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## Mokaman

GS Zhou said:


> interesting comment. So what you expect? A knight vs. knights fight like in the Middle Ages?
> View attachment 303820
> 
> 
> The new warships, fighters, or missiles delivery to Vietnam that shown in this thread are all useless, aren't they? All that you need is the bravery of the Vietnam soldiers. Because the bravery of VPA can help Vietnam to pave the road to Beijing.
> 
> If there is anyone that should take the responsibility for the death of the VN soldiers, it is not PLA. But the VPA leadership that send the soldiers to stand in water with few naval protection.
> 
> Some pictures taken during the Gulf War. According to you, the pilots of the US fighters or bombers should feel shameful, because they kill thousands of Iraq soldiers that "unarmed (to air) standing in desert"
> View attachment 303822
> 
> 
> View attachment 303823





In combat, there are things you are proud of and things you want to forget or at least discreet about it. So to brag about killing soldiers standing in water like idle statues is not something to be proud of. Or thinking you are great in a battle because your frigates destroyed transport and landing crafts . Or being proud of your coast guard boats in large number chasing few of your opponents... That's why when your compatriots posted those kind of things in this forum it make me laugh

That Highway of death was an Iraqi military convoy with military and civilian vehicules retreating back to Iraq. The bombardment (massacre) stop on President Bush’s order. It was a legit target but I don’t think those American pilots brag much about it. War is hell.

Every soldiers are brave when they know they outnumber their enemy or have highest chance to win a combat, who doesn’t? But what happen if your situation is reverse and you are a few and your chance of death is certain? Will you be as effective in combat and fight till the end? It doesn't take much to bring panic among the troop …. Did PLA face any of those situations yet? Or they just rely on modern equipments and huge numbers for victory?

And sure your lighthouses will bring peace in South China sea… Even Stevie Wonder can see what China is trying to do in South China sea. But thank to China and it bully policy of (( The bigger guy take all )), Viet Nam is investing heavily for a modern navy and air force, having new allies in India, Japan & USA and having the weapon embargo lift very soon… Thanks to China bully politic, Viet Nam navy was a small, weak and neglect force with old Soviet-era ships is today a Navy that grow everyday bigger and stronger, it will never beat PLA navy but it will surely give a good fight. So thanks China again and keep bullying it just make all the countries in the Spratly modernizing it forces and looking for allies... Great strategy

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## jhungary

Mokaman said:


> False, you can fire a M203 grenade launcher without being attached to a rifle or support. @Aqsuperman The M203 have no form of safety to prevent it being fired by itself alone. The problem firing M203 alone is the recoil, similar recoil to a 12 gauge, and you have no form of stock, grip, or hand hold to stabilize your fire...Just imagine fire a shotgun 12 gauge by only holding the cannon. ...So it's horrible and crazy !!!! But with some imaginations, you could build something around M203 like tied it around a long piece of wood your stick on the ground to fire like a mortar



Can you fire a shotgun without buttstock or grip? Technical, Yes - "*GIVEN YOU CAN ACHIEVE THAT GRIP FORCE without the actual butt and grip*", but it will be all over the place and funny enough, the only way you can fire a shotgun without the butts and grip would be pointing it directly upward which would give you the maximum grip of the barrel and the slide.

Fire a shot gun that way is "*UNSAFE*" and that would be the biggest safety there were that actually concern you, you don't fire a weapon unless you know it is safe to fire, now imagine you are doing this to a M203 launcher, would it be safe to fire a M203 Launcher that way? I mean if I fire a round, I want to know where it lands, if you do it with a M203, it will simply goes everywhere, depending on the recoil or where you finger and palm is gripping the weapon.

Have you actually used a M203 before? Strange that you will say this



> your stick on the ground to fire like a mortar



Can you tell me what is the last point on handling a M203 in a firing positions in the M203 qualification course??


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## Viet

*First Look: Vietnam Cam Ranh Bay Imagery Update*
May 8, 2016

By Chris Biggers








The latest imagery update available in Google Earth shows some new developments at Vietnam’s deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay. For starters, we get a clear view of the new international port facility that was inaugurated back in March. Space snapshots acquired by DigitalGlobe show extensive berthing areas including a 640 meter finger pier and a 500 meter quay wall. Several new administrative and support buildings were also visible since the previous update.

Hanoi has been telegraphing the construction of this facility for some time in anticipation to draw foreign civilian and military ships. Upon opening, the Vietnamese press put emphasis on aircraft carriers up to 110,000 DWT (deadweight tonnage) and cruise ships weighing up to 100,000 GRT (gross tonnage). The mention of the former, of course, hints at how far U.S.-Vietnam relations have come.

And certainly some sizable vessels have made their way to the Southeast Asian port. The first vessel from the Republic of Singapore, the lead Endurance Class (207) LST, set sail from Changi naval base and arrived on 17 March for a five day port call. Satellite imagery even captured the 141 meter long vessel berthed at the new finger pier (above).

Subsequently, two Japanese guided-missile destroyers made their way to the port the following month in a move meant to boost defense ties and reify Japan’s support for regional security. Unsurprisingly, the Japanese Defence Minister Gen Nakatani told the press at the time that Japan would work with the United States to ensure regional peace and stability in the South China Sea.

Beyond regional vessels, the first reported western boat also arrived earlier this month. On 02 May, the French Mistral-class (LHD)amphibious assault ship arrived for a four day port call. The latest vessel and by far the largest, the French ship was loaded with naval cadets which signaled “the desire to increase cooperation between the armed forces and governments,” according to a press release from the French embassy in Hanoi.








Additional space snapshots showed Phase II still under construction at the time of capture. The imagery confirms press reporting that the international port facility will feature ship maintenance and repair services.

Located to the north of Phase I, imagery acquired in March shows the ship repair facility with four covered halls, a transverse table, and a synchrolift (or ship elevator), all in various states of build. New administrative and support buildings were also visible. In addition, a 890 sq meter cleared section of land was noted behind the covered halls. This could support the staging of ship plates and modules for new vessel construction. In that case, the maintenance facility would also double as a fabrication shop.

We await future imagery for more insight.

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## Viet

*Vietnam, Singapore to cooperate for submarine rescue*


By* Trung Tan
PADANG*- Friday, April 15, 2016







Rear Admiral Pham Hoai Nam, commander of the Vietnam People's Navy, and Rear Admiral Lai Chung Han of the Singapore Navy have signed an agreement for their navies to cooperate for submarine rescue.

The agreement was signed Wednesday on the sidelines of the 15th Western Pacific Naval Symposium in Padang, Indonesia.

The two officials also discussed closer cooperation in many other areas. Vietnam plans to sign similar agreements with other countries in the region, according to a Thanh Nien source.

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## Viet

Sharp shooter on position

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## Viet

Things slowly become hot. Members of US government travel to Vietnam ahead of Barack Obama visit. the schedule when the US Airforce One hits the ground appears to be top secret as the day is not released yet.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs Daniel Russel






U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor Tom Malinowski

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## Viet

there are reports surfacinng the next generation of Gun ship TT400-TP class produced by the domestic shipyard Hong Ha will receive a major facelift. the overhaul will be finalized later this year. With the help from Russian companies.

Currently the gunship has an ugly design, posseses no antiship missile nor creditable aerial defence. that is expected going to change.

Displacement: 455 tons (full load)
Length: 54.16 metres
Speed: max 32 knots
Range: 2,500 miles
Endurance: 30 days
Crew: 28
Sensors and processing systems: Radar:MR-123/176 Vympel/Bass Tilt, Bass Tilt AK-630 fire-control

Armament:

 1 x 76.2mm AK-176 main gun
 1 x 30mm AK-630 CIWS
 16 x 9K38 Igla anti aircraft missile

 2 x KPVT 14.5mm heavy machine gun


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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> In combat, there are things you are proud of and things you want to forget or at least discreet about it. So to brag about killing soldiers standing in water like idle statues is not something to be proud of. Or thinking you are great in a battle because your frigates destroyed transport and landing crafts . Or being proud of your coast guard boats in large number chasing few of your opponents... That's why when your compatriots posted those kind of things in this forum it make me laugh
> 
> That Highway of death was an Iraqi military convoy with military and civilian vehicules retreating back to Iraq. The bombardment (massacre) stop on President Bush’s order. It was a legit target but I don’t think those American pilots brag much about it. War is hell.
> 
> Every soldiers are brave when they know they outnumber their enemy or have highest chance to win a combat, who doesn’t? But what happen if your situation is reverse and you are a few and your chance of death is certain? Will you be as effective in combat and fight till the end? It doesn't take much to bring panic among the troop …. Did PLA face any of those situations yet? Or they just rely on modern equipments and huge numbers for victory?
> 
> And sure your lighthouses will bring peace in South China sea… Even Stevie Wonder can see what China is trying to do in South China sea. But thank to China and it bully policy of (( The bigger guy take all )), Viet Nam is investing heavily for a modern navy and air force, having new allies in India, Japan & USA and having the weapon embargo lift very soon… Thanks to China bully politic, Viet Nam navy was a small, weak and neglect force with old Soviet-era ships is today a Navy that grow everyday bigger and stronger, it will never beat PLA navy but it will surely give a good fight. So thanks China again and keep bullying it just make all the countries in the Spratly modernizing it forces and looking for allies... Great strategy



For the 1988 sea fight, 
1) there were also unarmed Chinese soldiers standing in the water! 
2) the Chinese ships used guns or artillery only in the fight. The VN ships had guns or artillery as well !
3) The Chinese ships were almost naked to air. But Vietnam at that time had SU22 already! (Vietnam had its first SU-22 in 1979). If the SU22 took off and reached the fight area, it could be almost a disaster to PLA Navy. Thanks to god, SU22 not taking off, otherwise the history might be completely changed!!! 

If there is anyone should be blamed for the death of the VN soldiers, that should be the VPA leadership. They sent the soldiers that "don't want to fight"; they offered few naval protection to the soldiers; they didn't use SU-22, which could bring a nightmare to the PLA Navy. So, instead of posting nonsense here, you'd better write a letter to the son or daughter of the VPA leadership then to ask them whey their father be so stxxid in commanding the 1988 sea fight with China. Maybe you can start your letter with the following words from "The Art of War" By Sun Tzu

"Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose"


----------



## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> But thank to China and it bully policy of (( The bigger guy take all )), Viet Nam is investing heavily for a modern navy and air force, having new allies in India, Japan & USA and having the weapon embargo lift very soon… Thanks to China bully politic, Viet Nam navy was a small, weak and neglect force with old Soviet-era ships is today a Navy that grow everyday bigger and stronger, it will never beat PLA navy but it will surely give a good fight. So thanks China again and keep bullying it just make all the countries in the Spratly modernizing it forces and looking for allies... Great strategy



The bully policy of China? What a joke! China already shows a surprising "self-control" in military spending. According to SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute), China spends only 1.9% of the GDP on military, while the spending rate of Vietnam is 2.3%, Russia 5.4%, USA 3.3%. 
(FYI: For the China figure, SIPRI mentioned: The figures are for estimated total military expenditure, including estimates for items not included in the official defence budget. )

Don't try to blame China for the arm race across ASEAN. Just take an example, Thailand is investing heavily on its navy and air force, but who is a bigger concern to Thailand? Vietnam or China?

Vietnam's 2014 GDP was 186.2 billion USD, or 1,160 billion CNY. Shenzhen, a city from Guangdong Province of China, its 2014 GDP was 1,600 billion CNY. See? The GDP of the whole Vietnam is even significantly smaller than one single city of China! Why should we worry about the arm race with Vietnam?

Arm race has its own cost! The more you spending on military, the less you spend on education, infrastructure, health, scientific research, industrialization, etc, which in the long run, will harm the economic development of your country. That said, to invite Vietnam to run an arm race with us is exactly what we want! 

For China, we have a strong manufacturing base, therefore the money we spend on new military equipment, the money we spend on J10, J11, J15, J16, J20, 052C, 052D, submarines, Dongfeng-family missiles, different kinds of satellites, etc, will eventually be kept within our own economy circulation. The money we spend on these equipment 
- will turn to be the wages of our scientists, engineers and workers, so better talents could be attracted;
- will turn to be the funds for the defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- will turn to be the profits of the defense industry so they could invest more on new weapons R&D
- will turn to be the taxes paid to government so the money becomes the government budget again

But for Vietnam, the money you spend on new military equipment unfortunately turns to be 
- wages of Russian scientists, engineers and workers
- funds for the Russian defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
- profits of the Russian defense industry
- taxes paid to Russian government

You must be thrilled to see this! Right?


----------



## BoQ77

@GS Zhou : could you create another thread to talk about this clash?
This thread is almost for news



Viet said:


> *First Look: Vietnam Cam Ranh Bay Imagery Update*
> May 8, 2016
> 
> By Chris Biggers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The latest imagery update available in Google Earth shows some new developments at Vietnam’s deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay. For starters, we get a clear view of the new international port facility that was inaugurated back in March. Space snapshots acquired by DigitalGlobe show extensive berthing areas including a 640 meter finger pier and a 500 meter quay wall. Several new administrative and support buildings were also visible since the previous update.
> 
> Hanoi has been telegraphing the construction of this facility for some time in anticipation to draw foreign civilian and military ships. Upon opening, the Vietnamese press put emphasis on aircraft carriers up to 110,000 DWT (deadweight tonnage) and cruise ships weighing up to 100,000 GRT (gross tonnage). The mention of the former, of course, hints at how far U.S.-Vietnam relations have come.
> 
> And certainly some sizable vessels have made their way to the Southeast Asian port. The first vessel from the Republic of Singapore, the lead Endurance Class (207) LST, set sail from Changi naval base and arrived on 17 March for a five day port call. Satellite imagery even captured the 141 meter long vessel berthed at the new finger pier (above).
> 
> Subsequently, two Japanese guided-missile destroyers made their way to the port the following month in a move meant to boost defense ties and reify Japan’s support for regional security. Unsurprisingly, the Japanese Defence Minister Gen Nakatani told the press at the time that Japan would work with the United States to ensure regional peace and stability in the South China Sea.
> 
> Beyond regional vessels, the first reported western boat also arrived earlier this month. On 02 May, the French Mistral-class (LHD)amphibious assault ship arrived for a four day port call. The latest vessel and by far the largest, the French ship was loaded with naval cadets which signaled “the desire to increase cooperation between the armed forces and governments,” according to a press release from the French embassy in Hanoi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Additional space snapshots showed Phase II still under construction at the time of capture. The imagery confirms press reporting that the international port facility will feature ship maintenance and repair services.
> 
> Located to the north of Phase I, imagery acquired in March shows the ship repair facility with four covered halls, a transverse table, and a synchrolift (or ship elevator), all in various states of build. New administrative and support buildings were also visible. In addition, a 890 sq meter cleared section of land was noted behind the covered halls. This could support the staging of ship plates and modules for new vessel construction. In that case, the maintenance facility would also double as a fabrication shop.
> 
> We await future imagery for more insight.


----------



## GS Zhou

BoQ77 said:


> @GS Zhou : could you create another thread to talk about this clash?
> This thread is almost for news



thanks for the reminder. But I'm not the initiator of the discussion on the 1988 sea fight and arm race across ASEAN. 

This is a news thread, so I'll stop the discussion on the two topics. But please send a similar message to other participants as well, e.g. @Mokaman


----------



## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> For the 1988 sea fight,
> 1) there were also unarmed Chinese soldiers standing in the water!
> 2) the Chinese ships used guns or artillery only in the fight. The VN ships had guns or artillery as well !
> 3) The Chinese ships were almost naked to air. But Vietnam at that time had SU22 already! (Vietnam had its first SU-22 in 1979). If the SU22 took off and reached the fight area, it could be almost a disaster to PLA Navy. Thanks to god, SU22 not taking off, otherwise the history might be completely changed!!!
> 
> If there is anyone should be blamed for the death of the VN soldiers, that should be the VPA leadership. They sent the soldiers that "don't want to fight"; they offered few naval protection to the soldiers; they didn't use SU-22, which could bring a nightmare to the PLA Navy. So, instead of posting nonsense here, you'd better write a letter to the son or daughter of the VPA leadership then to ask them whey their father be so stxxid in commanding the 1988 sea fight with China. Maybe you can start your letter with the following words from "The Art of War" By Sun Tzu
> 
> "Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose"


you should look back at the time, when this clash happened, the year of 1988, to understand.

many factors:


VN was at war with China, with the PLA artillery repeaty shelling our border cities, PLA infantry making incursions into VN.

CN supported the remains of Cambodia Red Khmer army with money and weapons in their hideouts in Thailand.
they posed a serious threat to the new from VN supported Cambodian government.
all of VN resources were nearly exhausted, with economy collapsing, inflation skyrocketing, shortages of everything from food to electricity, millions of refugees
total arms and economic embargo by America, Japan and the Western world
ASEAN members turned against VN.
the sense in VN, feeling the incoming collapse of the USSR and the Eastern bloc. thus, the loss of the major backbone of VN in terms of military and economy.
In short, VN had reached the end of the road. the dead end. we could not continue.

why VN did not send Su22 fighter jets, annihilating the PLA naval escort fleet, taking back the few rocks?

there was a choice to make:

escalate the conflict, prolonging VN suffering or swallow the loss, accepting the bitter pill?

Considering VN ultimate goal was to end the war and to pursue normalisation with China, you may now understand the strategy of VN after the clash in the Spratlys.

"The Art of War" is not unknown in VN.

Accepting the loss of a battle to win the war.



GS Zhou said:


> The bully policy of China? What a joke! China already shows a surprising "self-control" in military spending. According to SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute), China spends only 1.9% of the GDP on military, while the spending rate of Vietnam is 2.3%, Russia 5.4%, USA 3.3%.
> (FYI: For the China figure, SIPRI mentioned: The figures are for estimated total military expenditure, including estimates for items not included in the official defence budget. )
> 
> Don't try to blame China for the arm race across ASEAN. Just take an example, Thailand is investing heavily on its navy and air force, but who is a bigger concern to Thailand? Vietnam or China?
> 
> Vietnam's 2014 GDP was 186.2 billion USD, or 1,160 billion CNY. Shenzhen, a city from Guangdong Province of China, its 2014 GDP was 1,600 billion CNY. See? The GDP of the whole Vietnam is even significantly smaller than one single city of China! Why should we worry about the arm race with Vietnam?
> 
> Arm race has its own cost! The more you spending on military, the less you spend on education, infrastructure, health, scientific research, industrialization, etc, which in the long run, will harm the economic development of your country. That said, to invite Vietnam to run an arm race with us is exactly what we want!
> 
> For China, we have a strong manufacturing base, therefore the money we spend on new military equipment, the money we spend on J10, J11, J15, J16, J20, 052C, 052D, submarines, Dongfeng-family missiles, different kinds of satellites, etc, will eventually be kept within our own economy circulation. The money we spend on these equipment
> - will turn to be the wages of our scientists, engineers and workers, so better talents could be attracted;
> - will turn to be the funds for the defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
> - will turn to be the profits of the defense industry so they could invest more on new weapons R&D
> - will turn to be the taxes paid to government so the money becomes the government budget again
> 
> But for Vietnam, the money you spend on new military equipment unfortunately turns to be
> - wages of Russian scientists, engineers and workers
> - funds for the Russian defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
> - profits of the Russian defense industry
> - taxes paid to Russian government
> 
> You must be thrilled to see this! Right?


ok what you say with some nuances I don´t agree is correct. but I missed the point you wanted to make.

state your point!

what is your conclusion?


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## Viet

What is Russia position on the current mess in the SC Sea?
Will Russia intervene in a military clash between China and Vietnam or between China and the United States?

more questions than answers

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremymaxie/2016/05/09/russias-south-china-sea-conundrum/#34877f964fc6

pictures of the Russia destroyer "Admiral Panteleyev" port call to Da-Nang.


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## Viet

a selection of ships produced by the domestic shipyard *SÔNG THU*

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## Viet



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## Mokaman

jhungary said:


> Can you fire a shotgun without buttstock or grip? Technical, Yes - "*GIVEN YOU CAN ACHIEVE THAT GRIP FORCE without the actual butt and grip*", but it will be all over the place and funny enough, the only way you can fire a shotgun without the butts and grip would be pointing it directly upward which would give you the maximum grip of the barrel and the slide.
> 
> Fire a shot gun that way is "*UNSAFE*" and that would be the biggest safety there were that actually concern you, you don't fire a weapon unless you know it is safe to fire, now imagine you are doing this to a M203 launcher, would it be safe to fire a M203 Launcher that way? I mean if I fire a round, I want to know where it lands, if you do it with a M203, it will simply goes everywhere, depending on the recoil or where you finger and palm is gripping the weapon.
> 
> Have you actually used a M203 before? Strange that you will say this
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell me what is the last point on handling a M203 in a firing positions in the M203 qualification course??




The question was simple...Can we shoot a M203 alone without support?. I said you can because there is no form of safety to prevent it being fired and correct your error, and I also said it horrible and crazy to fire it because of the recoil so why you just repeating the same thing I wrote but with different words? I gave the correct answer and you questioning my knowledge and qualifications? Let me remind you that you gave the wrong answer to that question, logically I should questioning your knowledge and qualifications .

Did I said use your imagination if you only have M203 alone and want to fire it? People already build improvised grenade launcher, what make you think that we can’t improvise something (handmade grip or support) around a M203 to fire it. I saw a picture someone attach M203 on a revolver and it work



GS Zhou said:


> For the 1988 sea fight,
> 1) there were also unarmed Chinese soldiers standing in the water!
> 2) the Chinese ships used guns or artillery only in the fight. The VN ships had guns or artillery as well !
> 3) The Chinese ships were almost naked to air. But Vietnam at that time had SU22 already! (Vietnam had its first SU-22 in 1979). If the SU22 took off and reached the fight area, it could be almost a disaster to PLA Navy. Thanks to god, SU22 not taking off, otherwise the history might be completely changed!!!
> 
> If there is anyone should be blamed for the death of the VN soldiers, that should be the VPA leadership. They sent the soldiers that "don't want to fight"; they offered few naval protection to the soldiers; they didn't use SU-22, which could bring a nightmare to the PLA Navy. So, instead of posting nonsense here, you'd better write a letter to the son or daughter of the VPA leadership then to ask them whey their father be so stxxid in commanding the 1988 sea fight with China. Maybe you can start your letter with the following words from "The Art of War" By Sun Tzu
> 
> "Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose"



You talk about a small skirmish like a great battle that PLA was exceptional. But I really like if you can explain how great PLA regular troop perform against Vietnamese militia units and border guard units during the 1979 conflict and the reasons for quick withdraw of PLA after a month of combat. PLA should teach all armies in the world how to win battles and wars because they have some many many great battles like Tibet invasion (how to fight against a force with obsolete weapons), the great strategy of human waves in Korea war, the 1979 fight against Vietnamese militia and border guards units and also the Tianamen square (great battle against protesters).



GS Zhou said:


> The bully policy of China? What a joke! China already shows a surprising "self-control" in military spending. According to SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute), China spends only 1.9% of the GDP on military, while the spending rate of Vietnam is 2.3%, Russia 5.4%, USA 3.3%.
> (FYI: For the China figure, SIPRI mentioned: The figures are for estimated total military expenditure, including estimates for items not included in the official defence budget. )
> 
> Don't try to blame China for the arm race across ASEAN. Just take an example, Thailand is investing heavily on its navy and air force, but who is a bigger concern to Thailand? Vietnam or China?
> 
> Vietnam's 2014 GDP was 186.2 billion USD, or 1,160 billion CNY. Shenzhen, a city from Guangdong Province of China, its 2014 GDP was 1,600 billion CNY. See? The GDP of the whole Vietnam is even significantly smaller than one single city of China! Why should we worry about the arm race with Vietnam?
> 
> Arm race has its own cost! The more you spending on military, the less you spend on education, infrastructure, health, scientific research, industrialization, etc, which in the long run, will harm the economic development of your country. That said, to invite Vietnam to run an arm race with us is exactly what we want!
> 
> For China, we have a strong manufacturing base, therefore the money we spend on new military equipment, the money we spend on J10, J11, J15, J16, J20, 052C, 052D, submarines, Dongfeng-family missiles, different kinds of satellites, etc, will eventually be kept within our own economy circulation. The money we spend on these equipment
> - will turn to be the wages of our scientists, engineers and workers, so better talents could be attracted;
> - will turn to be the funds for the defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
> - will turn to be the profits of the defense industry so they could invest more on new weapons R&D
> - will turn to be the taxes paid to government so the money becomes the government budget again
> 
> But for Vietnam, the money you spend on new military equipment unfortunately turns to be
> - wages of Russian scientists, engineers and workers
> - funds for the Russian defense industry to upgrade their manufacturing equipment
> - profits of the Russian defense industry
> - taxes paid to Russian government
> 
> You must be thrilled to see this! Right?



Give your advices to your Pakistan ally. Anyway, you forget that before your build your own fighters and weapons, how much China spent on Russian weapons and investing money on stealing technology?

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## Viet

World | Tue May 10, 2016 11:50am IST
Related: World,  South Asia

*Obama weighs historic decision on whether to lift Vietnam arms ban*
WASHINGTON | By David Brunnstrom, Lesley Wroughton and Matt Spetalnick 
Reuters








U.S. President Barack Obama is considering whether to lift a three-decade-old arms embargo on Vietnam, U.S. officials say, as he weighs calls to forge closer military ties with Hanoi against concerns over its poor human rights record.

The debate within the U.S. administration is coming to a head amid preparations for Obama's trip to Vietnam this month to bolster ties between Washington and Hanoi, former wartime enemies who are increasingly partners against China's growing territorial assertiveness in the South China Sea.


BALANCE OF POWER

The full removal of the embargo – something Vietnam has long sought - would sweep away one of the last major vestiges of the Vietnam War era and advance the normalization of relations begun 21 years ago. It would also likely anger Beijing, which condemned Obama's partial lifting of the arms ban in 2014 as an interference in the region's balance of power.

On one side of the internal debate, some White House and State Department aides say it would be premature to completely end restrictions on lethal military assistance before Vietnam's communist government has made more progress on human rights.

They are at odds with other officials, including many at the Pentagon, who argue bolstering Vietnam's ability to counter a rising China should take priority, according to people with knowledge of the discussions.

Boosting the security of allies and partners has been a major thrust of Obama's strategic "pivot" toward the Asia-Pacific region, a centerpiece of his foreign policy.

Even as Vietnam seeks warmer relations with the United States, though, U.S. officials are mindful that suspicions linger among Communist Party conservatives that Washington wants to undermine their country's one-party system.

One major factor in Obama's decision will be whether Vietnam will move forward on major U.S. defense deals, a potential boon for American jobs that could soften congressional opposition to lifting the weapons ban, according to one source close to White House policymaking.

There have been questions about whether Vietnam, which has relied mostly on Russian weapons suppliers since the Cold War, is ready to start buying U.S.-made systems. Diplomats have seen increasing signs that Hanoi is seeking ties with U.S. defense contractors but Washington wants tangible commitments, according to the source.

Vietnam is big buyer of weapons from Russia, its Cold War-era patron, including Kilo-class submarines and corvettes. It could look to the United States for items such as P-3 surveillance planes and missiles to beef up its naval forces and coastal defenses.

At the Pentagon, the prevailing view appears to be more in line with Defense Secretary Ash Carter's congressional testimony late last month that he would support lifting restrictions on the sale of U.S. weapons to Vietnam.

That comment raised eyebrows at the White House, where officials said Obama had yet to rule on the issue.

Obama's final decision could hinge on whatever recommendations come from ongoing visits to Vietnam by Tom Malinowski, the administration's top human rights envoy, and Daniel Russel, the Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and the Pacific.

Speaking in Hanoi on Tuesday, Russel said the embargo lifting was still "under periodic review" and would be looked at seriously, although he made it clear Vietnam's commitment to human rights would be central to any decision.

"One of the important factors that would make a lift of the ban possible would be to continue forward momentum in meeting universal human rights standards and progress in important legal reform," Russel told reporters.

Malinowski is not scheduled to speak to media during his trip.

It was not clear whether Obama was leaning for or against ending the embargo ahead of his trip, which will make him the third consecutive U.S. president to visit Vietnam.

Obama eased the ban on lethal arms sales to Vietnam in October 2014, allowing shipments of defensive maritime equipment to help Hanoi build up its deterrent to China's pursuit of its claims in the South China Sea, which conflict with those of its neighbors such as Vietnam and U.S. ally the Philippines.


"UNDESERVED AT THIS TIME"

John Sifton, Asia advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, said lifting the arms ban would be "undeserved at this time." The group, in an April 27 letter sent to Obama, described the Vietnamese government as "among the most repressive in the world."

While a number of U.S. lawmakers favor closer military ties with Vietnam because of shared concerns about China, others have deep misgivings.

Democratic U.S. Representative Loretta Sanchez, a member of the Congressional Caucus on Vietnam who also has a large Vietnamese-American voting bloc in her California district, said lifting the embargo would be "giving a free pass to a government that continually harasses, detains and imprisons its citizens."

Obama has the power to bypass Congress to lift the embargo. But his administration would hope for support from Republican U.S. Senator John McCain, a decorated former prisoner of war in North Vietnam who backed the 2014 partial lifting.

Some U.S. officials see signs that Vietnam is starting to pay attention to human rights criticism. But concerns remain over the government's heavy-handedness toward political opponents and treatment of workers and there is worry that Washington will lose some leverage if it gives up the arms embargo without securing concessions for reforms.

One senior U.S. official suggested that it might be best for now to "set the issue of the lethal weapons ban aside."

"These things do take time," the official said. But others said the door should remain open to lifting the embargo as preparations proceed for Obama's visit.

If Obama opts against removing the ban for now, another option that might mollify the Vietnamese would be creating a "working group" to map out the path toward doing so, one U.S. official said.



(Additional reporting by My Pham in HANOI and Phil Stewart in Washington; Writing by Matt Spetalnick; Editing by Stuart Grudgings and Nick Macfie)

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## Viet

Not officially released, still keeping secret: the new 4,000 tons vessel for the Coast Guard. DN-4000 class built by Sông Thu Shipyard. the new vessel can have a look like this.

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## Viet

new in service: a fleet of replenishment vessels, H222 class, for the Navy

specs:

assembled by the domestic shipyard Hồng Hà
displacement 4,300 tons, length 90m, wide 14m, speed 13.5 knots, range 6,000 miles
can operate 6 days and nights at sea, storm conditions 9-11
capacity: 2,000m3 fuel, 500m3 fresh water, 300 tons food, 30 tons frozen food, 80 tons vegetables

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## jhungary

Mokaman said:


> The question was simple...Can we shoot a M203 alone without support?. I said you can because there is no form of safety to prevent it being fired and correct your error, and I also said it horrible and crazy to fire it because of the recoil so why you just repeating the same thing I wrote but with different words? I gave the correct answer and you questioning my knowledge and qualifications? Let me remind you that you gave the wrong answer to that question, logically I should questioning your knowledge and qualifications .
> 
> Did I said use your imagination if you only have M203 alone and want to fire it? People already build improvised grenade launcher, what make you think that we can’t improvise something (handmade grip or support) around a M203 to fire it. I saw a picture someone attach M203 on a revolver and it work



oh well, yet another faker..............If you care to read my previous post again, you will know I have been leaving crumb for my question.

You cannot fire a M203 without grip, simply because there were *NO SAFETY* to control the launcher. One important step on firing a M203 is to have your launcher in "*SAFE*" position before you open the breech and insert a grenade. You cannot "Lock" the trigger and make safe if you do not have the back bits of the M203. If you cannot lock the launcher, you cannot safely load a round in it.

By the way, if you are really trained in whatever purpose and capacity to use a M203 in the field, you would have answer my question with a question. You should ask which FP I am referring to. And to really answer my question, you would have known that the last part of firing an M203 in a supported position is that the launcher should not touch the support.

I wasn't so sure about you are faking your "Military" experience before, but now It's am quite clear, your post with the word you choose to use does not seems professional to me. Nobody with any amount of training would use the word "Cannon" when you are talking about a shotgun. It's like a fighter pilot yell "Fire" when he fired a missile. Word have some other meaning when you are using it in the field. And even tho any given service member may not know all the vocabulary, you would still be briefed with what was called what if you have gone thru basic training, so that you will never call your sidearm a "gun". From that and the content of your post, I can conclude that you are not Military.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Airport Developments*
May 9, 2016

By Chris Biggers








The latest commercial satellite imagery available in Google Earth shows some new developments at Vietnam’s Cam Ranh (Nha Trang) Airport (CXR). In March, the north eastern support area appeared complete and new aircraft environmental shelters were erected on the parking apron. The southwest support area still showed construction activity at several new support and administrative buildings.

As noted previously, the aircraft shelters erected on the southern section were complete by last July and at least two Ka-28 ASW helicopters have been observed in front of the hangars. The helos are thought to support the Russian-built Gepard class frigates and other coastal patrol vessels berthed at the nearby naval base. The Gepard class does not have a built-in hangar for its deployed helos.

Perhaps most importantly, the recent imagery shows a new POL area, maintenance on the parallel taxiway and leveling activity for a second runway. Back in 2014, the press reported that the Vietnam Airlines Corporation had been planning to expand the airport due to the arrival of an increasing number of passengers. The airport, designed to receive 1.6 million per year, was nearing capacity according to the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam.

The last report regarding the tender said US-based ADC-HAS Airport had received OPIC approval for a $250 million project for the airport. A quick search over at OPIC’s site however yielded no results.

Apart from ADC-HAS Airports, another US-based airport investor Airis Holdings previously announced plans to put investment dollars into Danang (DAD) and Noi Bai (HAN) airports under the public-private partnership model. Satellite imagery has shown no change with Danang while Noi Bai has received an extensive 139,000 sq meter terminal. The new facility reportedly cost $900 million and doubled the airport’s capacity to 10 million passengers a year. It went into operation by January 2015.

Vietnam has 24 airports and most need to be upgraded to meet growing air transportation demand. Despite the lack of reform, U.S. firms remain increasingly bullish on the country which could provide other opportunities for collaboration.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Airport Developments*
> May 9, 2016
> 
> By Chris Biggers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The latest commercial satellite imagery available in Google Earth shows some new developments at Vietnam’s Cam Ranh (Nha Trang) Airport (CXR). In March, the north eastern support area appeared complete and new aircraft environmental shelters were erected on the parking apron. The southwest support area still showed construction activity at several new support and administrative buildings.
> 
> As noted previously, the aircraft shelters erected on the southern section were complete by last July and at least two Ka-28 ASW helicopters have been observed in front of the hangars. The helos are thought to support the Russian-built Gepard class frigates and other coastal patrol vessels berthed at the nearby naval base. The Gepard class does not have a built-in hangar for its deployed helos.
> 
> Perhaps most importantly, the recent imagery shows a new POL area, maintenance on the parallel taxiway and leveling activity for a second runway. Back in 2014, the press reported that the Vietnam Airlines Corporation had been planning to expand the airport due to the arrival of an increasing number of passengers. The airport, designed to receive 1.6 million per year, was nearing capacity according to the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam.
> 
> The last report regarding the tender said US-based ADC-HAS Airport had received OPIC approval for a $250 million project for the airport. A quick search over at OPIC’s site however yielded no results.
> 
> Apart from ADC-HAS Airports, another US-based airport investor Airis Holdings previously announced plans to put investment dollars into Danang (DAD) and Noi Bai (HAN) airports under the public-private partnership model. Satellite imagery has shown no change with Danang while Noi Bai has received an extensive 139,000 sq meter terminal. The new facility reportedly cost $900 million and doubled the airport’s capacity to 10 million passengers a year. It went into operation by January 2015.
> 
> Vietnam has 24 airports and most need to be upgraded to meet growing air transportation demand. Despite the lack of reform, U.S. firms remain increasingly bullish on the country which could provide other opportunities for collaboration.



Good article, but wrong about Danang where it says: "Satellite imagery has shown no change with Danang while Noi Bai has received an extensive 139,000 sq meter terminal".

The Danang airport is undergoing a major expansion right now with the building of a new terminal.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Good article, but wrong about Danang where it says: "Satellite imagery has shown no change with Danang while Noi Bai has received an extensive 139,000 sq meter terminal".
> 
> The Danang airport is undergoing a major expansion right now with the building of a new terminal.



I saw that expansion last Nov. Cause we booked Jetstar tickets so, we must take bus to the aircraft and by that we could see something expanding.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I saw that expansion last Nov. Cause we booked Jetstar tickets so, we must take bus to the aircraft and by that we could see something expanding.



Yes, the expansion its quite large right now.


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## Mokaman

jhungary said:


> oh well, yet another faker..............If you care to read my previous post again, you will know I have been leaving crumb for my question.
> 
> You cannot fire a M203 without grip, simply because there were *NO SAFETY* to control the launcher. One important step on firing a M203 is to have your launcher in "*SAFE*" position before you open the breech and insert a grenade. You cannot "Lock" the trigger and make safe if you do not have the back bits of the M203. If you cannot lock the launcher, you cannot safely load a round in it.
> 
> By the way, if you are really trained in whatever purpose and capacity to use a M203 in the field, you would have answer my question with a question. You should ask which FP I am referring to. And to really answer my question, you would have known that the last part of firing an M203 in a supported position is that the launcher should not touch the support.
> 
> I wasn't so sure about you are faking your "Military" experience before, but now It's am quite clear, your post with the word you choose to use does not seems professional to me. Nobody with any amount of training would use the word "Cannon" when you are talking about a shotgun. It's like a fighter pilot yell "Fire" when he fired a missile. Word have some other meaning when you are using it in the field. And even tho any given service member may not know all the vocabulary, you would still be briefed with what was called what if you have gone thru basic training, so that you will never call your sidearm a "gun". From that and the content of your post, I can conclude that you are not Military.



For you questioning my military background is just show you have a simple mind. You are not as smart as you think you are. I speak 3 languages, Vietnamese is my 1st language and French is my educational and professional language. You are right about 1 thing, I didn't served with an anglophone unit, but instead I was in a Francophone combat unit. My young brother is in an Anglophone unit, maybe I should ask him to translate every time I reply to you so you can understand and feel comfortable with your familiar terms? Who care I didn't use the right word, just as long people get the meaning of it and What I will do and what I want. You can't have a discussion without given a long and boring explanations (that I never read all), then get upset because people doesn't agree with you and then calling names. Yeah a true professional! There is not 1 way of thinking and 1 way doing thing, you don't have all the answer and certainly not all the true. This forum is to share knowledge, sometime we disagree but we can always have a dialogue without end up insulting each other.

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## jhungary

Mokaman said:


> For you questioning my military background is just show you have a simple mind. You are not as smart as you think you are. I speak 3 languages, Vietnamese is my 1st language and French is my educational and professional language. You are right about 1 thing, I didn't served with an anglophone unit, but instead I was in a Francophone combat unit. My young brother is in an Anglophone unit, maybe I should ask him to translate every time I reply to you so you can understand and feel comfortable with your familiar terms? Who care I didn't use the right word, just as long people get the meaning of it and What I will do and what I want. You can't have a discussion without given a long and boring explanations (that I never read all), then get upset because people doesn't agree with you and then calling names. Yeah a true professional! There is not 1 way of thinking and 1 way doing thing, you don't have all the answer and certainly not all the true. This forum is to share knowledge, sometime we disagree but we can always have a dialogue without end up insulting each other.



A bunch of *BULLS*...blame it on Francophone Unit.

This is not about what language you speak, nor about how you train with your weapon. I spoke 4 different languages myself, Chinese, English, Spanish and Swedish. Which is the mother tounge of my mother, my birth place, my dad and my wife.

The problem is, you won't be "Confused" by the parts of a shotgun no matter which language you learn from, the barrel of a shotgun would always be a barrel, it would be pipa in Swedish but you will never call it kanon because a barrel is a barrel. That is the basic professional knowledge of a weapon, and that thing will never change. I am not saying you said *Fat* "Barrel" instead of *Pipa* "Gun Barrel" which is simply a confusion of word when you translate to a different language. It never about the choice of word, it's about the knowledge and the understanding of any given subject.

I never get upset with someone disagree with me, in all my military related post, I always say there are more than one way to achieve your objective. I just don't get along with faker.


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## gambit

Mokaman said:


> For you questioning my military background is just show you have a simple mind.
> 
> *Who care I didn't use the right word*,...


We do. We meaning those of us who have military experience. Gary's is Army. Mine's Air Force. We are touchy about terminologies specific to our experiences.


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## BoQ77

gambit said:


> We do. We meaning those of us who have military experience. Gary's is Army. Mine's Air Force. We are touchy about terminologies specific to our experiences.



Have you ever been back to Saigon after 1975, Sir?


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## Viet

Last update 09:56 | 11/05/2016

* 
US President Obama to visit Vietnam from May 22 to 25*


_VietNamNet Bridge - US President Barack Obama will pay a visit to Vietnam from May 22 to 25, according to a statement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Vietnam._


_




_


According to the White House website, Obama will hold official meetings with Vietnam's leadership to discuss ways for the U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership to advance cooperation across a wide range of areas, including economic, people-to-people, security, human rights, and global and regional issues.

In Hanoi, the US President will deliver a speech on U.S.-Vietnam relations. During meetings and events in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, he will discuss the importance of approving the Trans-Pacific Partnership this year.

The US President also will meet with members of civil society, the Young Southeast Asian Leadership Initiative, entrepreneurs, and the business community.

Obama will become the third consecutive US president paying a visit to Vietnam. In 2000 Bill Clinton was the first US President to visit Vietnam since the end of the Vietnam War. George W. Bush visited Vietnam in 2006.

After Vietnam, President Obama will go to Japan to attend the G7 Summit on two days May 26-27 in Ise-Shima.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Have you ever been back to Saigon after 1975, Sir?



Yes, he has. 

Amazing, first time I see Gambit in this thread.

For those that might have not noticed, there is a very lively discussion about the Vietnamese navy at this thread, you might like to check it out:

https://defence.pk/threads/vietnam-ordered-stealth-destroyers-p28-of-india.428137/

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## Viet

we send a "banzai!" to Japan!

Thanks to our friends of the country of the rising sun, and of course to the expertise and money ($781 million), we are getting a new deep-sea port in Lach Huyen to the east of Haiphong. Expected to come in operation: May 2018.

not only good for civil vessels but warships including submarines as well.

a new Cam-Ranh Bay in the north

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Last update 09:56 | 11/05/2016
> 
> *
> US President Obama to visit Vietnam from May 22 to 25*
> 
> 
> _VietNamNet Bridge - US President Barack Obama will pay a visit to Vietnam from May 22 to 25, according to a statement from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Vietnam._
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> According to the White House website, Obama will hold official meetings with Vietnam's leadership to discuss ways for the U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership to advance cooperation across a wide range of areas, including economic, people-to-people, security, human rights, and global and regional issues.
> 
> In Hanoi, the US President will deliver a speech on U.S.-Vietnam relations. During meetings and events in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, he will discuss the importance of approving the Trans-Pacific Partnership this year.
> 
> The US President also will meet with members of civil society, the Young Southeast Asian Leadership Initiative, entrepreneurs, and the business community.
> 
> Obama will become the third consecutive US president paying a visit to Vietnam. In 2000 Bill Clinton was the first US President to visit Vietnam since the end of the Vietnam War. George W. Bush visited Vietnam in 2006.
> 
> After Vietnam, President Obama will go to Japan to attend the G7 Summit on two days May 26-27 in Ise-Shima.



A 3 day visit is quite long, plenty to discuss I guess.



Viet said:


> we send a "banzai!" to Japan!
> 
> Thanks to our friends of the country of the rising sun, and of course to the expertise and money ($781 million), we are getting a new deep-sea port in Lach Huyen to the east of Haiphong. Expected to come in operation: May 2018.
> 
> not only good for civil vessels but warships including submarines as well.
> 
> a new Cam-Ranh Bay in the north



Talking about the country of the rising sun, there is a certain PDF member of the country of the rising sun that has been long missing in PDF..........


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> A 3 day visit is quite long, plenty to discuss I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about the country of the rising sun, there is a certain PDF member of the country of the rising sun that has been long missing in PDF..........


Barack Obama will stay 4 days in VN to be precise, from 22 to 25 
yes, a lot of nice pictures to come. I hope the weather is nice, so he can cruise in his car down the roads 

as for a certain PDF poster, he was too delusional at late. I´m not sure if he returns. if yes, he may return as a samurai. a quite opposite role than he took last time. we will see. Gambit makes the first ever post in this thread. so wonder can happen in this world.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Barack Obama will stay 4 days in VN to be precise, from 22 to 25
> yes, a lot of nice pictures to come. I hope the weather is nice, so he can cruise in his car down the roads
> 
> as for a certain PDF poster, he was too delusional at late. I´m not sure if he returns. if yes, he may return as a samurai. a quite opposite role than he took last time. we will see. Gambit makes the first ever post in this thread. so wonder can happen in this world.



Ha ha, I think that certain samurai if he returns, will return as a Filipino samurai if you get my drift........ 

It would be nice if we can see more of Mr. @gambit in this thread, we can use his opinions and expertise.

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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> You talk about a small skirmish like a great battle that PLA was exceptional. But I really like if you can explain how great PLA regular troop perform against Vietnamese militia units and border guard units during the 1979 conflict and the reasons for quick withdraw of PLA after a month of combat. PLA should teach all armies in the world how to win battles and wars because they have some many many great battles like Tibet invasion (how to fight against a force with obsolete weapons), the great strategy of human waves in Korea war, the 1979 fight against Vietnamese militia and border guards units and also the Tianamen square (great battle against protesters).



What an expert of topic derailing! Start from the 1988 sea fight, and shift to the 1979 war, the Korean war, and even the Tibet Liberation war. You are really a master on topic derailing!!

This is a thread about Vietnam military modernization, so if you want to discuss these wars, go to other more appropriate threads, or create a new thread on your own!

@BoQ77 why don't you send him a similar message to remind him the nature of this thread?



Mokaman said:


> Give your advices to your Pakistan ally. Anyway, you forget that before your build your own fighters and weapons, how much China spent on Russian weapons and investing money on stealing technology?



You forget the localization efforts that made by China? We localized MIG-17 and MIG-19 in 1950s; we localized MIG-21 in 1960s'; we localized SU-27 in 1990s'. Without the technology accumulations we got from the old days, it is impossible for us to develop our own J10, or J20.

For a developing country that wants to close the technology gap with the advanced countries, there is nothing shameful to "copy", or even to "steal" the technology. What's shameful is that even if you have the military equipment in front of you for almost four decades, you have the complete freedom to disassemble and measure it, but you still don't know how to produce it.

How many years have been MIG-21 or SU-22 in service in Vietnam? Close to 40 years, right? But do you know how to produce the fighters now? No!

Don't tell me it is because these are obsolete fighters, so you don't want to localize them. Vietnam even imported some 2nd-hand ones from Poland few years ago.

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## Viet

We need ships and more ships in the SC Sea!

Quang-Ninh, May 10

Launch of the first PSV (Platform Supply Vessel) ever built in Vietnam


built by Hạ Long Shipyard (Dutch Damen Group)
PSV 3300 class
length 80m, wide 16.2m, 3,500 tons, 1,500 ton deadweight, speed of 13.5 knots
can operate at sea for 28 consecutive days

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## Aqsuperman

VPA special storage weapon ranging from these guys to US-made weapons and equipments. Some only use for occasional parade though.


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## BoQ77

GS Zhou said:


> What an expert of topic derailing! Start from the 1988 sea fight, and shift to the 1979 war, the Korean war, and even the Tibet Liberation war. You are really a master on topic derailing!!
> 
> This is a thread about Vietnam military modernization, so if you want to discuss these wars, go to other more appropriate threads, or create a new thread on your own!
> 
> @BoQ77 why don't you send him a similar message to remind him the nature of this thread?
> 
> 
> 
> You forget the localization efforts that made by China? We localized MIG-17 and MIG-19 in 1950s; we localized MIG-21 in 1960s'; we localized SU-27 in 1990s'. Without the technology accumulations we got from the old days, it is impossible for us to develop our own J10, or J20.
> 
> For a developing country that wants to close the technology gap with the advanced countries, there is nothing shameful to "copy", or even to "steal" the technology. What's shameful is that even if you have the military equipment in front of you for almost four decades, you have the complete freedom to disassemble and measure it, but you still don't know how to produce it.
> 
> How many years have been MIG-21 or SU-22 in service in Vietnam? Close to 40 years, right? But do you know how to produce the fighters now? No!
> 
> Don't tell me it is because these are obsolete fighters, so you don't want to localize them. Vietnam even imported some 2nd-hand ones from Poland few years ago.



better you ignore him or you two fight and disturb others.
Vietnam isnt China, even Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia dont make themselves a fighter

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## Viet

Business | Wed May 11, 2016 11:40am EDT
Related: World


*Quietly, Vietnam hosts arms gathering attended by U.S. companies*
Reuters
HANOI/WASHINGTON | By My Pham and Idrees Ali






_Soldiers hold rifles while marching during a celebration to mark Reunification Day in Ho Chi Minh city, Vietnam April 30, 2015. Reuters/Kham
_

Vietnam hosts a defense symposium this week attended by top American arms manufacturers, ahead of a visit by U.S. President Barack Obama and as Washington weighs whether to lift an arms embargo on its former enemy.

Secrecy has surrounded the event staged by the communist country and attended by firms including Boeing (BA.N) and Lockheed Martin (LMT.N). It coincides with the biggest arms buildup in the country since the Vietnam War.


LOCKHEED MARTIN

There has been no mention in state-controlled media and defense reporters are not covering the forum. Efforts by Reuters to gain permission to attend have been unsuccessful and Vietnam's defense ministry could not be reached for comment.

Vietnam has accelerated efforts to build a military deterrent and is the world's eighth largest weapons importer, as neighbor China intensifies its push to fortify South China Sea islands it has either occupied or built from scratch.

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute think-tank, which tracks defense trade over five-year periods, Vietnam's total arms imports during 2011-2015 represented a 699 percent jump from 2006-2010.

The Hanoi symposium comes amid debate within the U.S. administration over whether to respond to Vietnam's longstanding request to remove an arms embargo that is one of the last major vestiges of the Vietnam War era.

Washington eased the embargo in late 2014, but has said any decision to lift it completely would hinge on the extent to which Vietnam has demonstrated progress in improving its human rights record. Its top envoy in that field, Tom Malinowski, was in Hanoi earlier this week.

Vietnam has been in talks with Western and U.S. arms manufacturers for several years now to boost its fleets of fighter jets, helicopters and maritime patrol aircraft, although Russia, its traditional supplier, maintains a dominant position.

Industry sources say Hanoi is keen on U.S. weapons yet wary of the threat of a future embargo even if the current one ends. The countries do have a common concern in China, however, whose assertiveness in the South China Sea has alarmed Washington.

Obama is due to start his Vietnam visit on May 22, the first by a U.S. president in a decade, underlining the rapidly warming relationship between the countries at a time of testy ties and growing mistrust between Hanoi and Beijing, which have competing claims to the Paracel and Spratly islands.


MODERNIZATION NEEDS

A spokesman for Lockheed Martin confirmed the company was attending the Hanoi event.

Boeing is also attending, although the firm made it clear it was not in contravention of the embargo.

"I would like to point out that any defense-related sales to Vietnam will follow development of U.S. government policy on Vietnam," a spokesman said.

"We believe Boeing has capabilities in mobility and intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance platforms that may meet Vietnam's modernization needs."

Those needs have included the purchase of six modern Kilo-class submarines from Russia equipped with Klub cruise missiles, Russian-built S-300 surface-to-air missile batteries, and from Israel, Galil assault rifles and AD-STAR 2888 radars.

Its navy is making Tarantul-class corvettes, known as Molniyas, modeled on Russian designs and equipped with 16 missiles with a range of 130 km (80 miles).

Though the communist parties that run China and Vietnam officially have brotherly ties, experts say Beijing's brinkmanship has forced Vietnam to recalibrate its defense strategy.

A report in the defense ministry's People's Army Newspaper Online in March quoted the vice defense minister, Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, as saying Vietnam's relationship with the United States lacked defense industry cooperation, and Hanoi wanted Washington "to provide modern, suitable and adaptable technology".

Its outreach so far has been weighted towards Russia, India and Israel in procurements, but analysts say it is unlikely to seek formal military alliances and would stick to its foreign policy of not relying on a single power.

It has, however, mulled joint exercises with another South China Sea claimant at odds with China, the Philippines, and has received recent visits by Singaporean and Japanese warships at its new international port at Cam Ranh Bay, a strategic deepwater base that is home to its submarines.

Tim Huxley, a regional security expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in Singapore, said Vietnam's interest in getting the arms embargo lifted was not only about access to U.S. technology, but boosting its bargaining power.

"It reflects concern about what's happening in the South China Sea and its need to restructure and re-arm, with a greater emphasis on greater naval and air capability," he said.

"It wants to widen options available and have more choices in the international market place in terms of range of technology and its negotiating position."

(Additional reporting by Mai Nguyen in HANOI; Writing and additional reporting by Martin Petty in MANILA; Editing by Mike Collett-White)

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## Aqsuperman

Aiming a SA-7 back in the war. Till today, MANPADS 




still prove to be quite useful for low level air efense. Some source say VN already got newer model like SA-24


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## Viet

One of the new medium sized airports to build or upgrade along the border to China: construction of $257 million Lao Cai airport begins in the third quarter this year. like most of other airports in VN, it serves both civil and military aircraft. Fighter jets taking off from the new facilities can quickly respond to any chinese provocation along Vietnam-China common land border.









Hanoi, May 10. General Lt. Nguyen Chi Vinh receives US Assistant Secretary Daniel Russel and US Embassador to Vietnam Ted Osius in the Defence Ministry, basically the Army Headquarters. the US wants more cooperations with Vietnamese Armed Forces, while Vietnam wants US to provide more supports in various fields.

I think a deal can be worked out.


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## William Hung

hey @jhungary can you comment on the guy in this pic, his stance, his grip, etc.? We are debating about it on fb and several people are saying his stance, etc. looks off, not in a proper firing position, etc...


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## jhungary

William Hung said:


> hey @jhungary can you comment on the guy in this pic, his stance, his grip, etc.? We are debating about it on fb and several people are saying his stance, etc. looks off, not in a proper firing position, etc...



depending on several factors.........

I can't see his weapon, but if his weapon eject from the right (like a M4) the casing is going to hit that guy in the face every time he fired.

Also, I would avoid using right hand on left corner, most SF train guy learn to deal with both hand, you use your left on left corner, that way you are not that much exposed, but then that is not a must

Another thing I will do is I will not hold the weapon 90 degree to the floor, I would hold it 45 degree and aim with my left eye, that way, the casing is going to eject off just over the head and you won't be that exposed either.

Another thing I probably won't do is I won't stand up straight. I will crouch a bit, people expect you to peek over in eye level, that is what you won't do, usually the first one peek around would be crouched down.

But then that's just me...


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## BoQ77

William Hung said:


> hey @jhungary can you comment on the guy in this pic, his stance, his grip, etc.? We are debating about it on fb and several people are saying his stance, etc. looks off, not in a proper firing position, etc...



The guns provided by hosts. Not theirs.


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## Aqsuperman

Well there are a few thing i would like to say :

- FN P90 has a downward ejection port so either way of holding the gun is fine 

- Yeah, the training guns are from the host country, we only bring over our uniform and the helmet 

-Quite sure there are some posing photos and some taken during rapid movement so its not clearly show the technique our SF employed.


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## BoQ77

2:20s

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## Viet

guys and girls, can we discuss on more important things that shaken the world than how is the best way to hold a gun or how a gun is called correctly in military term?

How about this?

Adopting a strategy of liberating the ASEAN bloc from chinese stranglehold by broadening the relationship of ASEAN to other major powers, especially countries we like, America and Russia. I think, the Chinese won´t be amused.

the upcoming ASEAN-Russia Summit in Sochi, 19-20 May.

Greeting the Russian Ambassador to Vietnam Konstantin Vnukov.








and hmmmm...suddently I have the feeling, the U.S.S. _John C. Stennis_ aircraft carrier accompanied by destroyers and cruisers could be the next honorary guest to the Cam Ranh Bay

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## BoQ77

wet dream. 
President Obama on board the CBG in Cam Ranh bay.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> wet dream.
> President Obama on board the CBG in Cam Ranh bay.


haven´t you read the latest news?

Vietnamese Armed Forces is expected to be put on full alert with combat readiness during the visit of Barack Obama to Vietnam. with no fly-zones. I would wonder if the US Armed Forces in the region won´t be on red alert.

the VCP boss Nguyen Phu Trong just visits the Cam Ranh base to make sure every soldier fulfils his obligation.

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## Aqsuperman

Well a full lift on arms ban would be great. A few C-130 and P-3 would do us nicely now


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## BoQ77

coincidently, the official visit day at the election day 22nd of May.
Security on election is also needed.

I wish they will announce the direct flight between two.
so there would be some daily cross wide SCS flights that need freedom of overflight.


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## Mokaman

jhungary said:


> A bunch of *BULLS*...blame it on Francophone Unit.
> 
> This is not about what language you speak, nor about how you train with your weapon. I spoke 4 different languages myself, Chinese, English, Spanish and Swedish. Which is the mother tounge of my mother, my birth place, my dad and my wife.
> 
> The problem is, you won't be "Confused" by the parts of a shotgun no matter which language you learn from, the barrel of a shotgun would always be a barrel, it would be pipa in Swedish but you will never call it kanon because a barrel is a barrel. That is the basic professional knowledge of a weapon, and that thing will never change. I am not saying you said *Fat* "Barrel" instead of *Pipa* "Gun Barrel" which is simply a confusion of word when you translate to a different language. It never about the choice of word, it's about the knowledge and the understanding of any given subject.
> 
> I never get upset with someone disagree with me, in all my military related post, I always say there are more than one way to achieve your objective. I just don't get along with faker.




Fucking idiot, don’t say words that I didn’t wrote. I never blame anything on my unit. I start to know what kind of little loser you are, you are just a guy that spend all days on computer and eager to show off how much you have memorize from military manuals and books. Every idiots (and children) like you can read and memorize parts, procedures and terminologies found in military manuals and in internet, and then claiming to be military expert. Knowing all parts of a plane, flying procedures and aviation terminologies doesn’t mean you are a pilot neither you can fly a plane. Everything you posted is just text book, copy & paste, nothing practical but all things learn by heart . You are not a professional soldier, it just a title you give to yourself, because the real ones doesn’t talk or act like that and most important of all doesn't have time to spend all day on computer... You are just a fanatic military enthusiast that walking around with his dog tags, wear T-shirt with army logo and have military stickers on your car and play airsoft in weekend, a real loser. You never done or accomplish anything, beside memorizing military manuals and eager to show off and impose to people what you know by heart. You just a theory guy not a field guy.

I will like to see you in person, and see if you talk and act as tough in real life. Because in real life you assume what you say and there no place to run or hide. But a tough guy like you just hide behind a computer screen and talk shit with his keyboard... Yeah a real professional internet warrior !!! Oh I see you call some reinforcement, you homo boyfriend came help you and posted something… By the way, your posts are fucking long and boring so I assume you have a big mouth, just as big as a whore’s pussy that we can put 6 dicks in your mouth and you will be still talking

Here an article talking about you, read it douchebag, it an order.

*5 Ways To Spot An Army Douchebag *


http://thoughtcatalog.com/belmont-du-maurier/2014/04/5-ways-to-spot-an-army-douchebag/

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## jhungary

Mokaman said:


> Fucking idiot, don’t say words that I didn’t wrote. I never blame anything on my unit. I start to know what kind of little loser you are, you are just a guy that spend all days on computer and eager to show off how much you have memorize from military manuals and books. Every idiots (and children) like you can read and memorize parts, procedures and terminologies found in military manuals and in internet, and then claiming to be military expert. Knowing all parts of a plane, flying procedures and aviation terminologies doesn’t mean you are a pilot neither you can fly a plane. Everything you posted is just text book, copy & paste, nothing practical but all things learn by heart . You are not a professional soldier, it just a title you give to yourself, because the real ones doesn’t talk or act like that and most important of all doesn't have time to spend all day on computer... You are just a fanatic military enthusiast that walking around with his dog tags, wear T-shirt with army logo and have military stickers on your car and play airsoft in weekend, a real loser. You never done or accomplish anything, beside memorizing military manuals and eager to show off and impose to people what you know by heart. You just a theory guy not a field guy.
> 
> I will like to see you in person, and see if you talk and act as tough in real life. Because in real life you assume what you say and there no place to run or hide. But a tough guy like you just hide behind a computer screen and talk shit with his keyboard... Yeah a real professional internet warrior !!! Oh I see you call some reinforcement, you homo boyfriend came help you and posted something… By the way, your posts are fucking long and boring so I assume you have a big mouth, just as big as a whore’s pussy that we can put 6 dicks in your mouth and you will be still talking
> 
> Here an article talking about you, read it douchebag, it an order.
> 
> *5 Ways To Spot An Army Douchebag *
> 
> 
> http://thoughtcatalog.com/belmont-du-maurier/2014/04/5-ways-to-spot-an-army-douchebag/



lol Faker.............

You don't know what is the true value of the Military, aren't you?

Military is all about professionalism, and one part of the professionalism is for a person to understand what they do and how they do it. And a majority of that part is that for you to understand what you will use in battle in order for you to survive in war, and in a way you can communicate with your fellow soldier so you don't need to train with a specific script and people from the same organisation can understand what the heck is going on.

People like you are a prime example why it make a bad name for people like me. I *NEVER* glorify what I did for a living, people who know who I am in this forum almost certainly know how I feel about war, if you have a son, I would tell you that your son should never join the military in the first place. People like you, on the other hand, know *NOTHING* about the hardship of war, and go around and tell people this and that as if people bled for, people sweat for is for your own pleasure. But no, you did not stop there. You claim to be a combat vet. Which is something I *NEVER* understand why people would do that. What is the point to pretend you were in battle?

People like you see war and solider as a story book or movie script, people like me sweat and bled for people like you so you can stay home and sit in front of a computer and pretend to be a soldier. Man, I did not spend 2 tours in the middle east so you can do that*. And that is the reason why you fail to understand why term like that is important for soldier like us, for you, it's just a term, for us, it's a sort of an identity.
*
I worked 2 and a half years on military intelligence, that is my job to spot something fake from afar. It doesn't take really much to spot a fake like you to be honest. The way you talk about combat is exactly someone who wasn't in the forefront of war would say, that's because you saw and know war by sitting in front of a TV, we know and feel war by being there, you never know what it's like to fight in a sand storm, you never know the smell of the desert, you never know what it's like to have someone in that particular moment try to kill you, you should really consider it a blessing.

*By the way, for a person who claim he don't speak English that well, you certain command a good enough English to insult me on this page. lol*

I like to expose fraudster like you, the more you talk, the more you expose yourselves as a fake.

By the way, I don't wear my dog tag, I don't have a bumper sticker, I don't even wanted to wear my Class A anymore. And if you served in the field, you will understand, but unfortunately, being a faker, I don't think you will ever.

lol checkout this clown @gambit

*

*


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## William Hung

ok thanks to those who commented on my question.

It seems that situation is currently tensed in this thread so I’ll set my question aside for now. I dont really know the history of the debate between J and M but I’ll say that, reading the last few pages, it seems to me that both J and M initially gave very similar answers but then later argued on the smaller differences.

*runs*


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## Viet

without judging who is right who is wrong, I´d like to cite a quote in the bibel:
_‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone."_

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## BoQ77

Mokaman said:


> Fucking idiot, don’t say words that I didn’t wrote. I never blame anything on my unit. I start to know what kind of little loser you are, you are just a guy that spend all days on computer and eager to show off how much you have memorize from military manuals and books. Every idiots (and children) like you can read and memorize parts, procedures and terminologies found in military manuals and in internet, and then claiming to be military expert. Knowing all parts of a plane, flying procedures and aviation terminologies doesn’t mean you are a pilot neither you can fly a plane. Everything you posted is just text book, copy & paste, nothing practical but all things learn by heart . You are not a professional soldier, it just a title you give to yourself, because the real ones doesn’t talk or act like that and most important of all doesn't have time to spend all day on computer... You are just a fanatic military enthusiast that walking around with his dog tags, wear T-shirt with army logo and have military stickers on your car and play airsoft in weekend, a real loser. You never done or accomplish anything, beside memorizing military manuals and eager to show off and impose to people what you know by heart. You just a theory guy not a field guy.
> 
> I will like to see you in person, and see if you talk and act as tough in real life. Because in real life you assume what you say and there no place to run or hide. But a tough guy like you just hide behind a computer screen and talk shit with his keyboard... Yeah a real professional internet warrior !!! Oh I see you call some reinforcement, you homo boyfriend came help you and posted something… By the way, your posts are fucking long and boring so I assume you have a big mouth, just as big as a whore’s pussy that we can put 6 dicks in your mouth and you will be still talking
> 
> Here an article talking about you, read it douchebag, it an order.
> 
> *5 Ways To Spot An Army Douchebag *
> 
> 
> http://thoughtcatalog.com/belmont-du-maurier/2014/04/5-ways-to-spot-an-army-douchebag/


behave yourself

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## GS Zhou

Mokaman said:


> I will like to see you in person, and see if you talk and act as tough in real life. Because in real life you assume what you say and there no place to run or hide. But a tough guy like you just hide behind a computer screen and talk shit with his keyboard... Yeah a real professional internet warrior !!! Oh I see you call some reinforcement, you homo boyfriend came help you and posted something… By the way, your posts are fucking long and boring so I assume you have a big mouth, just as big as a whore’s pussy that we can put 6 dicks in your mouth and you will be still talking



@Hu Songshan @WebMaster hi sir, can we take some actions to stop the insulting tone from this guy? thanks!

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## jhungary

William Hung said:


> ok thanks to those who commented on my question.
> 
> It seems that situation is currently tensed in this thread so I’ll set my question aside for now. I dont really know the history of the debate between J and M but I’ll say that, reading the last few pages, it seems to me that both J and M initially gave very similar answers but then later argued on the smaller differences.
> 
> *runs*



lol, I never met a person who had used firearms and don't know what and which part was call what.

And when I question his training regarding the M203 and he have no creditable answer to my question. I never said My word are absolute, even tho what we said is similar (actually not much because his last part of the post make no sense at all) I was never the one that said his answer is wrong, I cannot say the same with him.

I hated when people impersonate military personnel, Even more so when people claim they had combat experience and they actually don't. People like me, @gambit, @Neptune here with actual combat experience would understand something that you will not think it's normal but actually happened a lot in war. Hence we can spot faker probably from a mile away.

I did not do what I did over there for glory, but then it does not mean anyone can rub it in my face and diminish what I did for that 23 months.

Maybe I got too carried away with poster like that, but again, for some reason, these type of people just tend to get on my nerve.



Viet said:


> without judging who is right who is wrong, I´d like to cite a quote in the bibel:
> _‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone."_



Oh well.........all kind of people anywhere.........

I will have to apologise here for bring this into this forum. I know I should not engage in personal bickering with a poster like that but again as I said, people who pretend to be a soldier just freakin' bug me.

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## Viet

This recent news is quite interesting:

http://tintuc.vn/binh-luan-quan-su/nguyen-nhan-bat-ngo-viet-nam-mua-them-chien-ham-gepard-126946

as per Russian news agency TASS, Vietnam is still in the negotiation process with Russia on acquiring the third batch of Gepard frigate: #5 and #6. the main armament, the antiship missile system will be Kh-35UE with range of 260km, instead of 130km with Kh-35E. or VN can choose the more advanced version: Kalibr-NK, a supersonic cruise missile. the latter is more expensive as we need to buy the missile, while we can produce Kh-35 domestically. as for aerial defence, there is a choice to make between Shtil-1 and Buk-M1.

But the most important news is this: with the beginning of 2018, when the relocation and modernization of the domestic shipyard Ba Son is complete, it is tasked to build the Gepard and other warships variants, in service of the Russia Navy today.

nice. It turns out, when Vietnam negotiates with the Dutch on the Sigma and urges America on lifting arms embargo, we are putting pressure on Russia in the negotiation process to get technology transfer for a reasonable price. the Navy seems to stick to the Gepard. the next two ships may be the last ones that will be built in Russia. after that, Ba Son shipyard is expected to build an advanced version of the Gepard: more weight, more firepower.

detroyers of russian style are coming @Carlosa

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> This recent news is quite interesting:
> 
> http://tintuc.vn/binh-luan-quan-su/nguyen-nhan-bat-ngo-viet-nam-mua-them-chien-ham-gepard-126946
> 
> as per Russian news agency TASS, Vietnam is still in the negotiation process with Russia on acquiring the third batch of Gepard frigate: #5 and #6. the main armament, the antiship missile system will be Kh-35UE with range of 260km, instead of 130km with Kh-35E. or VN can choose the more advanced version: Kalibr-NK, a supersonic cruise missile. the latter is more expensive as we need to buy the missile, while we can produce Kh-35 domestically. as for aerial defence, there is a choice to make between Shtil-1 and Buk-M1.
> 
> But the most important news is this: with the beginning of 2018, when the relocation and modernization of the domestic shipyard Ba Son is complete, it is tasked to build the Gepard and other warships variants, in service of the Russia Navy today.
> 
> nice. It turns out, when Vietnam negotiates with the Dutch on the Sigma and urges America on lifting arms embargo, we are putting pressure on Russia in the negotiation process to get technology transfer for a reasonable price. the Navy seems to stick to the Gepard. the next two ships may be the last ones that will be built in Russia. after that, Ba Son shipyard is expected to build an advanced version of the Gepard: more weight, more firepower.
> 
> detroyers of russian style are coming @Carlosa



Well, well, far from destroyers unless they are heavily modified and stretched. Lets see the details.
Yes, I had read about the move and expansion of the shipyard, that's very good. I was trying to send you a message, but I can't get into your profile page.


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## Viet

Carlosa, I posted this news before, but maybe not all have noticed: also, Sông Thu shipyard can build warships based on a variant of DN-2000 class patrol vessel. the images are taken from company´s website:

http://www.songthu.com.vn/tin-tuc/le-dat-ky-dong-moi-tau-da-nang-dn2000-32.html

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, I posted this news before, but maybe not all have noticed: also, Sông Thu shipyard can build warships based on a variant of DN-2000 class patrol vessel. the images are taken from company´s website:
> 
> http://www.songthu.com.vn/tin-tuc/le-dat-ky-dong-moi-tau-da-nang-dn2000-32.html



Darn, I was just talking about that for the last couple of days, as my idea because I thought it would be possible, cheap and fast. I had no idea that they had already said that. I didn't see your post on that. That ship looks very nice. What are they waiting for?

Are they going to do it?


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> Carlosa, I posted this news before, but maybe not all have noticed: also, Sông Thu shipyard can build warships based on a variant of DN-2000 class patrol vessel. the images are taken from company´s website:
> 
> http://www.songthu.com.vn/tin-tuc/le-dat-ky-dong-moi-tau-da-nang-dn2000-32.html


the shape look good, but we need more reconfiguration to get space to put fire power into them


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## Nike

Holland Class OPV, optimized for long range patrol and policing on high seas


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## Aqsuperman

Talking about OPV, anyone know any infos about the 100 millions aid package for ship construction from India ? There are a lot of speculation back then about the Saryu class OPV


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Darn, I was just talking about that for the last couple of days, as my idea because I thought it would be possible, cheap and fast. I had no idea that they had already said that. I didn't see your post on that. That ship looks very nice. What are they waiting for?
> 
> Are they going to do it?


from what I guess, it is a stretched version of DN-2000 class. the company can produce the hull, integrating navigation system, navigation radar, naval gun, propulsion engines, but need the assistance of Russia to import fire control radars and other necessary systems.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Darn, I was just talking about that for the last couple of days, as my idea because I thought it would be possible, cheap and fast. I had no idea that they had already said that. I didn't see your post on that. That ship looks very nice. What are they waiting for?
> 
> Are they going to do it?



sorry that is old news, maybe about 8002 as mentioned Keel laying already on 20 June..
Which one ever on June? 8002? 20 June 2013

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## Aqsuperman

BoQ77 said:


> Which one ever on June? 8002? 20 June 2013



Its acually 2012 though :v 

http://infonet.vn/dong-moi-tau-canh-sat-bien-co-san-do-truc-thang-post23110.info


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## gambit

Mokaman said:


> Every idiots (and children) like you can read and memorize parts, procedures and terminologies found in military manuals and in internet, and then claiming to be military expert.


If it was that easy, everyone on this forum would be a 'military expert'. But most know better. Those of us who have served and is well familiar with our areas of training, there are things and experiences that civilians do not know and we use them to spot and expose frauds.

Deep technical knowledge is another way to find out if someone is real or fraudulent about his claim of having served in the military. Often, it does not require deep technical knowledge. For example, I was on the F-111 for 5 yrs and if I meet someone who claimed to have been on the F-111, that person had better quickly explain to me a particular aircraft structure that is often associated -- painfully -- to a certain part of the human body. Another example is that if someone claimed to know avionics, he should know what am talking about if I ask him of a 'compass swing' and a 'compass rose'.

Soldiers have their own methods of exposing frauds. So do sailors. Marines of any country are particularly harsh toward frauds. There are some things and experiences that are universal, meaning soldiers in groups move a certain way no matter what country they came from. Firefighters all over the world shares experiences and techniques. They have a common mission which is to protect their cities. A firefighter from New York City will quickly be able to assist his Parisian counterpart if needed. CPR is the same in the US as in India.

Looks like you got busted, buddy.



Mokaman said:


> You are not a professional soldier, it just a title you give to yourself, because the real ones doesn’t talk or act like that and most important of all doesn't have time to spend all day on computer...


Actually, our experiences made it so that we do not have to spend a lot of time to become suspicious, even across the Internet.



Mokaman said:


> You are just a fanatic military enthusiast that walking around with his dog tags, wear T-shirt with army logo and have military stickers on your car...


I wear my Air Force experience much closer than that. I have tattoos of the US Air Force star and wings symbol, of the F-111, and of the F-16. Seriously -- tattoos. Am thinking of getting a large tattoo of the Air Combat Command (ACC) symbol -- sword and wings -- on my back. Seriously.

The fact that you have to resort to crass insults pretty much %99 confirmed you are a fraud. If you actually have served, your language in defense of self would be much different and we would know it.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Talking about OPV, anyone know any infos about the 100 millions aid package for ship construction from India ? There are a lot of speculation back then about the Saryu class OPV



You better ask in the Indian forum, they would be the ones to know. The Saryu class would be a nice ship for Vietnam.



Viet said:


> from what I guess, it is a stretched version of DN-2000 class. the company can produce the hull, integrating navigation system, navigation radar, naval gun, propulsion engines, but need the assistance of Russia to import fire control radars and other necessary systems.



That picture is for the Holland class OPV as Madokafc said, that's a 4000 ton ship, I'm not sure that's a stretched version of DN-2000, I think its a new design.

Frankly, If Vietnam can produce these ships configured as warships, I don't see the point to continue with the Gepard, you can do the same or better on these ships. You can integrate Russian, Indian and western tech on them.


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## Nike

Vietnam need to open and building ship design research center, Indonesia has doing that for the last five years, and you can see the results....

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## Neptune

jhungary said:


> lol, I never met a person who had used firearms and don't know what and which part was call what.
> 
> And when I question his training regarding the M203 and he have no creditable answer to my question. I never said My word are absolute, even tho what we said is similar (actually not much because his last part of the post make no sense at all) I was never the one that said his answer is wrong, I cannot say the same with him.
> 
> I hated when people impersonate military personnel, Even more so when people claim they had combat experience and they actually don't. People like me, @gambit, @Neptune here with actual combat experience would understand something that you will not think it's normal but actually happened a lot in war. Hence we can spot faker probably from a mile away.
> 
> I did not do what I did over there for glory, but then it does not mean anyone can rub it in my face and diminish what I did for that 23 months.
> 
> Maybe I got too carried away with poster like that, but again, for some reason, these type of people just tend to get on my nerve.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well.........all kind of people anywhere.........
> 
> I will have to apologise here for bring this into this forum. I know I should not engage in personal bickering with a poster like that but again as I said, people who pretend to be a soldier just freakin' bug me.



My lucky day it must be. After many weeks I return home(sick) and get this mention 

Anyways, there's a point here I believe. You try to show people how it is made but most importantly (for me at least) you get to hear stuff from experts or local people that have knowledge on systems. Example: it is absurd for a naval officer to know about most of the warfare systems on a ship in details as he can specialise on one field only prior to his/her commission. On PDF, This is where you get to divide defence industry experts, peope with good research info from military personnel. Most of the information is distrubuted by those "experts" (not all fit the description though). But in practical just like this question asked to you about rifle holding..the things that wouldn't make any value without first hand experience, sometimes you gotta show it to people in which I am not really a fond of it.

Theres three groups here.
Group A: People eager to learn about warfare and defence, so that they joined. I can write it all day to do my best.
Group B: People that are expert on their area of profession amd beyond that. It always had been a pleasure for me to talk with @isoo for example on the matters of ships.
Group C: Simply keyboard generals that know the deepest sh.it from all three branches. It just makes me sick. You will try to show the true thing of what ever the topic is but ever time he will refuse to understand and put dirt on those serving. Aftet a point, which is the one I mentioned in the very first line of my post, you just smile and carry on. That's not because you underestimate that group but because the situation they put themselves through by themselves is funny.

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## Viet

History

Easter Offensive of 1972

Many still believe Vietnam war was fought in the jungle, but the reality is a bit different. as evidenced by the easter offensive of 1972. 12:00 noon on March 30, 1972 the North Vietnamese Army crossed the DMZ, starting the largest ever ground offensive, totally 300,000 men and 700 tanks, against the US and South Vietnamese combined Armed Forces, with 6 divisions to attack in the northern portion of South Vietnam, 3 divisions were ordered to strike in central South Vietnam, 4 divisions to attack north of Saigon, with the goal to test the military strength of the US and South Vietnamese defence positions for a later greater offensive ending the war. the largest tank battle during the Vietnam war.

North Vietnamese tanks and artilleries going into position before the battle























South Vietnam defence lines

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## William Hung

Viet said:


> Carlosa, I posted this news before, but maybe not all have noticed: also, Sông Thu shipyard can build warships based on a variant of DN-2000 class patrol vessel. the images are taken from company´s website:
> 
> http://www.songthu.com.vn/tin-tuc/le-dat-ky-dong-moi-tau-da-nang-dn2000-32.html



I’m interested to know how you got the idea that Song Thu can build “warships based on a variant of the DN-2000” because that Vietnamese article you linked did not mentioned anything about Song Thu having the ability or plan to build “warships based on a variant of the DN-2000”, or warships based on the Holland-class, or the Holland-class itself.

I don’t recall Song Thu or other official sources claiming what you’ve said either. So do you mind giving me the source where you got those details from? I hope you didnt get it from tabloids like sọhạ.


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## Viet

I believe have told a certain idiot at least 100 times here and there "don't read my posts!".


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> I believe have told a certain idiot at least 100 times here and there "don't read my posts!".



Come on mate, you have given informations that I think is questionable so I have asked a legitimate question for you to clarify.

Besides, I suspect you might not be fluent in reading Vietnamese since the other vietnamese article before that said “the Shtil is a naval variant of the land-based Buk” but you have incorrectly translated into english as “for arial defense, a choice must be made between the Shtil and Buk” which is clearly wrong. So I have legitimate reasons to ask you for some clarifications on how you got the details I’ve previously mentioned.


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## Viet

ha ha ha what an idiot, fool and troller!

have I said in my previous post: I translated the vietnamese article word by word?

I say to you again, and it is 101 times: "DON´T READ MY POSTS!"

you brain is dead.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> ha ha ha what an idiot, fool and troller!
> 
> have I said in my previous post: I translated the vietnamese article word by word?
> 
> I say again, and it is 101 times: "DON´T READ MY POSTS!"



Even if you never claimed to translate it word for word, still how on earth did you end up writing “for aerial defense, a choice needs to be made between the Shtil-1 and Buk-m1” when the vietnamese article only said that the Shtil-1 is a naval variant of the Buk-m1??? and if you have read that bit, it would make no sense for you to say that “a choice needs to be made btween Shtil and Buk” for a ship.

The more important thing I want to ask you to clarify is how did you come to the conclusion about Song Thu and the “warships based on a variant of the DN-2000”?


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## Viet

William Hung said:


> Even if you never claimed to translate it word for word, still how on earth did you end up writing “for aerial defense, a choice needs to be made between the Shtil-1 and Buk-m1” when the vietnamese article only said that the Shtil-1 is a naval variant of the Buk-m1??? and if you have read that bit, it would make no sense for you to say that “a choice needs to be made btween Shtil and Buk” for a ship.
> 
> The more important thing I want to ask you to clarify is how did you come to the conclusion about Song Thu and the “warships based on a variant of the DN-2000”?


you fool. I can write what I like. we are here not standing before a court, where I need to present the evidence.
I call you as a fool, idiot and troller, should I provide a source how I came to that conclusion?

even if I made a mistake in translation or provide a wrong statement, who cares? you?

of course, I know. you are the one who scans every single post of mine looking for errors. some time ago you were the one, who blamed me as this and that, quoting a sentence of mine making 2 years ago.

what a loser!


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> you fool. I can write what I like. we are here not standing before a court, where I need to present the evidence.
> I call you as a fool, idiot and troller, should I provide a source how I came to that conclusion?
> 
> even if I made a mistake in translation or provide a wrong statement, who cares? you?



Come on man, lets act a bit more mature. I’m just interested in how you come to the conclusion about Song Thu and that “warship variant” since neither the article you linked nor any other reputable sources I can recall have ever mentioned what you had claimed. So are you saying that it was your mistranslation or wrong statement or what? i just want some clarifications.

I’m actually interested in it you know. I wasn’t saying Somg Thu can or can’t, I’m just wondering how you got the details since the article you linked did not mentioned anything about it at all.


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## Viet

You don't get it.

What you want is for me irrelevant.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> You don't get it.
> 
> What you want is for me irrelevant.



What I asked for is relevant for anyone who is interested in VN military, and relevant for your credential. You’ve made claims that are questionable and I have given reasons why they are questionable. I asked you for some clarification but you didn’t/couldn’t support your claims and instead replied with a string of vitriol attacks with an affirmation that “I can write whatever I want”. Now how would people know that what you are writing is from credible sources or just a (mis)conclusion that you’ve made in your own mind? This does not bode well for your credentials.


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## BoQ77

William Hung said:


> What I asked for is relevant for anyone who is interested in VN military, and relevant for your credential. You’ve made claims that are questionable and I have given reasons why they are questionable. I asked you for some clarification but you didn’t/couldn’t support your claims and instead replied with a string of vitriol attacks with an affirmation that “I can write whatever I want”. Now how would people know that what you are writing is from credible sources or just a (mis)conclusion that you’ve made in your own mind? This does not bode well for your credentials.



We should do our best to clarify our own post to other enquiries on it.
An Indian didn´t ask you for more details if he didnt pay attention to your content.


----------



## Viet

William Hung said:


> What I asked for is relevant for anyone who is interested in VN military, and relevant for your credential. You’ve made claims that are questionable and I have given reasons why they are questionable. I asked you for some clarification but you didn’t/couldn’t support your claims and instead replied with a string of vitriol attacks with an affirmation that “I can write whatever I want”. Now how would people know that what you are writing is from credible sources or just a (mis)conclusion that you’ve made in your own mind? This does not bode well for your credentials.


Don't quote me fcking idiot stalker!

I know you retard very well after being lured into the trap set up by you in the initial discussion happened some time ago in this thread.

You are not here for discussion but for harassing people.

You contribute nothing but jump in if finding a worm in an ocean.

I don't care if you question my credentials. Nor have I interest in talking to you.

I can claim "the Moon consists of cheese".

Don't ask me for source.

It is as it is.

I own you nothing.

Get it!

If you continue, I will appeal to moderator and webmaster to intervene.



BoQ77 said:


> We should do our best to clarify our own post to other enquiries on it.
> An Indian didn´t ask you for more details if he didnt pay attention to your content.


He reads every post I make, scanning for mistake and error. If found, he jumps in and starts a discussion. This guy belongs to a clinic.


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## BoQ77

He is helping you @Viet


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## Aqsuperman

Mud fight everywhere..........

AAA position in the old time.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> He is helping you @Viet


No, he isn´t. if you review the conservations between him and me in the past and recently you will understand.

there is a saying in german:

Alles ist gesagt. Es gibt nichts mehr zu sagen. Das Tischtuch zwischen uns ist für immer zerschnitten.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> No, he isn´t. if you review the conservations between him and me in the past and recently you will understand.
> 
> there is a saying in german:
> 
> Alles ist gesagt. Es gibt nichts mehr zu sagen. Das Tischtuch zwischen uns ist für immer zerschnitten.



If what he did is scanning for your errors, ask you for making clear something, or correct things... that's his help for your post to be less error, mistake. Would you mind to revise your posts sometimes ? I would correct mine immediately once I was reminded and found my mistake. 
remember say Thanks to reminders.


----------



## jhungary

Neptune said:


> My lucky day it must be. After many weeks I return home(sick) and get this mention
> 
> Anyways, there's a point here I believe. You try to show people how it is made but most importantly (for me at least) you get to hear stuff from experts or local people that have knowledge on systems. Example: it is absurd for a naval officer to know about most of the warfare systems on a ship in details as he can specialise on one field only prior to his/her commission. On PDF, This is where you get to divide defence industry experts, peope with good research info from military personnel. Most of the information is distrubuted by those "experts" (not all fit the description though). But in practical just like this question asked to you about rifle holding..the things that wouldn't make any value without first hand experience, sometimes you gotta show it to people in which I am not really a fond of it.
> 
> Theres three groups here.
> Group A: People eager to learn about warfare and defence, so that they joined. I can write it all day to do my best.
> Group B: People that are expert on their area of profession amd beyond that. It always had been a pleasure for me to talk with @isoo for example on the matters of ships.
> Group C: Simply keyboard generals that know the deepest sh.it from all three branches. It just makes me sick. You will try to show the true thing of what ever the topic is but ever time he will refuse to understand and put dirt on those serving. Aftet a point, which is the one I mentioned in the very first line of my post, you just smile and carry on. That's not because you underestimate that group but because the situation they put themselves through by themselves is funny.



lol, matey, how's your deployment? Those PKK dude giving you any trouble??

I wasn't actually think you are going to response, I am just quoting you to make a point. Hehe

Well, I guess I just don't like people that do this kind of stuff, I mean, I don't mind a lot of people do a lot of things, like disrespecting me for what I did, I mean I have had people coming up to me left and right and tell me this and that about Iraq or we have been fking up whatever the situation in the middle east. But I do draw a line with this type of behaviour.

Anyway, maybe I am a bit over the edge. But man, I just don't know why these type of people just get me all riled up.


----------



## Neptune

jhungary said:


> lol, matey, how's your deployment? Those PKK dude giving you any trouble??
> 
> I wasn't actually think you are going to response, I am just quoting you to make a point. Hehe
> 
> Well, I guess I just don't like people that do this kind of stuff, I mean, I don't mind a lot of people do a lot of things, like disrespecting me for what I did, I mean I have had people coming up to me left and right and tell me this and that about Iraq or we have been fking up whatever the situation in the middle east. But I do draw a line with this type of behaviour.
> 
> Anyway, maybe I am a bit over the edge. But man, I just don't know why these type of people just get me all riled up.



All I can say is that; Just enjoy the view, don't answer.
It's same. Cold and rusty, we try to do our best. I was a little sick, didn't take it a reason but my nco in charge just thought maybe I could use some hometown breath so I took 3 days off. How's you been doing


----------



## jhungary

Neptune said:


> All I can say is that; Just enjoy the view, don't answer.
> It's same. Cold and rusty, we try to do our best. I was a little sick, didn't take it a reason but my nco in charge just thought maybe I could use some hometown breath so I took 3 days off. How's you been doing



lol, I tried to, that's why I try to avoid him in the first sitting.

And 3 days special leave eh? I got one of those when I was in Iraq, but I went to Bahrain instead, I can only get back to the US if I was on compassionate leave as if my family have some problem back home......

These day I am quite busy finishing my thesis......It's quite boring  And my friends brother is heading off to Afghanistan as part of Resolute Support mission lol...And I sort of wish I went with him lol, but then he is a marine....


----------



## Neptune

jhungary said:


> lol, I tried to, that's why I try to avoid him in the first sitting.
> 
> And 3 days special leave eh? I got one of those when I was in Iraq, but I went to Bahrain instead, I can only get back to the US if I was on compassionate leave as if my family have some problem back home......
> 
> These day I am quite busy finishing my thesis......It's quite boring  And my friends brother is heading off to Afghanistan as part of Resolute Support mission lol...And I sort of wish I went with him lol, but then he is a marine....



In fact, its no special leave actually, just on my own initiative as a right. They suggested it. But you know missing home there is one thing, missing/worrying abt your buds there when you're home is another so, that's why it's a short leave including transportation time leave.
What is it between you and marines meh? They're my favorite US force. Not because they're so popular, but they have a devastating firepower and means of transportation/utility on their own, and they're sailors..simply lol.


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## Viet

Many greetings to Louisiana. the first batch of 11 *Metal Shark Defiant 45* is complete. test runs on water.
Total 30 highspeed patrol vessels will be built and expected to be deliver to Vietnam Coast Guard later this year.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Many greetings to Louisiana. the first batch of 11 *Metal Shark Defiant 45* is complete. test runs on water.
> Total 30 highspeed patrol vessels will be built and expected to be deliver to Vietnam Coast Guard later this year.



Viet oi, is this William Hung who I think it is? The one that you did a lot of heavy duty fighting with last year? The one that was trying to get you to stop posting in pdf? Is that him?

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Viet oi, is this William Hung who I think it is? The one that you did a lot of heavy duty fighting with last year? The one that was trying to get you to stop posting in pdf? Is that him?


Bingo. Yes, it's him. He just has another ID now. Actually I have no interest in fighting with him.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Bingo. Yes, it's him. He just has another ID now. Actually I have no interest in fighting with him.



I thought so, same way of talking and aggressive as usual.

Very funny, last year he criticized you in a really bad way because he wanted you to stop posting in PDF (like if he has a right to tell others what to do) and he said that he was not going to post here anymore, but in the end, he continued posting under a different name, so he continued doing what he asked you to not do anymore.

I believe that's called hypocrisy !!!!


----------



## William Hung

Viet said:


> Don't quote me fcking idiot stalker!
> 
> I know you retard very well after being lured into the trap set up by you in the initial discussion happened some time ago in this thread.
> 
> You are not here for discussion but for harassing people.
> 
> You contribute nothing but jump in if finding a worm in an ocean.
> 
> I don't care if you question my credentials. Nor have I interest in talking to you.
> 
> I can claim "the Moon consists of cheese".
> 
> Don't ask me for source.
> 
> It is as it is.
> 
> I own you nothing.
> 
> Get it!
> 
> If you continue, I will appeal to moderator and webmaster to intervene.
> 
> 
> He reads every post I make, scanning for mistake and error. If found, he jumps in and starts a discussion. This guy belongs to a clinic.



You are overeacting here. I asked you a very very simple and legitmate question, which you could have answered in one sentence and ended it right there...yet you did not address my question but decided to reply with a string of personal attacks against me. You are free to report to the mods, it is you who are breaking rules, not me.

And I asked you to make some clarification because some of the things you said were questionable or just outright wrong. You didn’t post it in a private chat but on a public forum so I have the right to raise it up. 

Just look at the little conversation you had with the Spanish member after your misleading post about Song Thu. One Spanish guy believed your words as gospel and thought the article or Song Thu really said what you reported, and both you and the Spaniard member didn’t even know that the picture is of the Holland Class OPV until Madokafc mentioned. Then the Spanish guy wrote things like if VN can build these “warship” configuration then why VN keep buying Gepards, in another thread he complained to other members how VN navy procurement plan don’t make sense and even tried to bring up the issue of VN army corruption with me. He even mentioned your post to justify his theories in that thread.

You guys have been mostly making speculations and theories in PDF...and some of those speculations are based on inaccurate information such as the ones I’ve mentioned in my previous posts. I caught an example of those inaccurate posting from you...and instead of responding in a mature way to clarify your words, you decided to attack me. And until now you refused address the issue at hand, to make clarification of your words or to admit a mistake.


----------



## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> You are overeacting here. I asked you a very very simple and legitmate question, which you could have answered in one sentence and ended it right there...yet you did not address my question but decided to reply with a string of personal attacks against me. You are free to report to the mods, it is you who are breaking rules, not me.
> 
> And I asked you to make some clarification because some of the things you said were questionable or just outright wrong. You didn’t post it in a private chat but on a public forum so I have the right to raise it up.
> 
> Just look at the little conversation you had with the Spanish member after your misleading post about Song Thu. One Spanish guy believed your words as gospel and thought the article or Song Thu really said what you reported, and both you and the Spaniard member didn’t even know that the picture is of the Holland Class OPV until Madokafc mentioned. Then the Spanish guy wrote things like if VN can build these “warship” configuration then why VN keep buying Gepards, in another thread he complained to other members how VN navy procurement plan don’t make sense and even tried to bring up the issue of VN army corruption with me. He even mentioned your post to justify his theories in that thread.
> 
> You guys have been mostly making speculations and theories in PDF...and some of those speculations are based on inaccurate information such as the ones I’ve mentioned in my previous posts. I caught an example of those inaccurate posting from you...and instead of responding in a mature way to clarify your words, you decided to attack me. And until now you refused address the issue at hand, to make clarification of your words or to admit a mistake.



And your proof (with sources) that shows that our "speculations" are wrong or are we just supposed to believe you because of ........... what?


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I thought so, same way of talking and aggressive as usual.
> 
> Very funny, last year he criticized you in a really bad way because he wanted you to stop posting in PDF (like if he has a right to tell others what to do) and he said that he was not going to post here anymore, but in the end, he continued posting under a different name, so he continued doing what he asked you to not do anymore.
> 
> I believe that's called hypocrisy !!!!



Wow this is so cheap.

I let you have the last words in the other thread but you still decided to continue it here and now try for character assassination and attack me here.

So let's bring you to the topic I was talking about with @Viet here because you also became part of the conversation of his Song Thu post and even made your own comments on it. I caught @Viet making inaccurate claims and asked him to clarify...you on the other hand seem to take his words as gospel. I have explained to Viet why his post was inaccurate but he refused to directly address it and attacked me instead...so are you willing to man up and address that inaccuracy or are you just going to join your friend in personal attacks against me?

(I am talking about the post on Song Thu and the socalled “warship based on a variant of the DN-2000” which you also mentioned in the other thread.)



Carlosa said:


> And your proof (with sources) that shows that our "speculations" are wrong or are we just supposed to believe you because of ........... what?



I was talking about @Viet’s post on Song Thu and that socalled “warship variant”. I have already explained that the vietnamese article he posted *did not mentioned* whatt he claimed, the picture he posted was a Holland-class OPV, and as I said there have been no credible sources that have mentioned what he claimed. So I asked him to clarify...because people like you took his words as gospel without verifying it.


----------



## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Wow this is so cheap.
> 
> I let you have the last words in the other thread but you still decided to continue it here and now try for character assassination and attack me here.
> 
> So let's bring you to the topic I was talking about with @Viet here because you also became part of the conversation of his Song Thu post and even made your own comments on it. I caught @Viet making inaccurate claims and asked him to clarify...you on the other hand seem to take his words as gospel. I have explained to Viet why his post was inaccurate but he refused to directly address it and attacked me instead...so are you willing to man up and address that inaccuracy or are you just going to join your friend in personal attacks against me?
> 
> (I am talking about the post on Song Thu and the socalled “warship based on a variant of the DN-2000” which you also mentioned in the other thread.)



Fair enough, feel free to correct anything that is not accurate and feel free to back up your words with proof, not just saying "You are wrong, I know better, but I'm not going to say anything. That's cheap talking and shows you with no credibility.

Character assassination? Did you say or not say that you were not going to post here again? And you said that after you told him not to post here, right?
But you've been posting again, right?
So which ones of those are wrong?



William Hung said:


> (I am talking about the post on Song Thu and the socalled “warship based on a variant of the DN-2000” which you also mentioned in the other thread.)
> 
> 
> 
> I was talking about @Viet’s post on Song Thu and that socalled “warship variant”. I have already explained that the vietnamese article he posted *did not mentioned* whatt he claimed, the picture he posted was a Holland-class OPV, and as I said there have been no credible sources that have mentioned what he claimed. So I asked him to clarify...because people like you took his words as gospel without verifying it.



I'm not talking just about 1 post, I'm talking about you saying such and such is not correct (in the other thread), but then you refuse to give any proof to back those words.

I have no issues with the Song Thu thing.


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Fair enough, feel free to correct anything that is not accurate and feel free to back up your words with proof, not just saying "You are wrong, I know better, but I'm not going to say anything. That's cheap talking and shows you with no credibility.



Read my post #6003 that I first made to Viet, did I said "You are wrong, I know better, but I'm not going to say anything”? I asked him politely with my proper explanations.

As for what I said in the other thread how I won’t “say anything” about your navy discussion , well yeah, its exactly as that and I already explained why in that thread, not sure why you want to drag it here. And I wasnt trying to show “credibility” there, I didnt really wanted to comtinue to participate. The issue in this thread is different, Viet made questionable claim (not just speculation) and so I called him out to clarify.




> Character assassination? Did you say or not say that you were not going to post here again? And you said that after you told him not to post here, right?
> But you've been posting again, right?
> So which ones of those are wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not talking just about 1 post, I'm talking about you saying such and such is not correct, but then you refuse to give any proof to back those words.
> 
> I have no issues with the Song Thu thing.



Character assassination meaning that both you guys didn’t focussed on the proper topic at hand relevant to this thread but tried to make personal attacks against me, whether its accurate or not. If you want to discuss that, feel free to open a thread about it, dont go off topic here and ignore the issue at hand (which was what your friend was doing).


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## BoQ77

Let think simple @William Hung @Viet
focus on post, not on person

Proceed the self-restrain


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Read my post #6003 that I first made to Viet, did I said "You are wrong, I know better, but I'm not going to say anything”? I asked him politely with my proper explanations.
> 
> As for what I said in the other thread how I won’t “say anything” about your navy discussion , well yeah, its exactly as that and I already explained why in that thread, not sure why you want to drag it here. And I wasnt trying to show “credibility” there, I didnt really wanted to comtinue to participate. The issue in this thread is different, Viet made questionable claim (not just speculation) and so I called him out to clarify.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Character assassination meaning that both you guys didn’t focussed on the proper topic at hand relevant to this thread but tried to make personal attacks against me, whether its accurate or not. If you want to discuss that, feel free to open a thread about it, dont go off topic here and ignore the issue at hand (which was what your friend was doing).



Don't go around the bushes, I'm not talking about the Song Thu / Damen 2000 thing. I take issue with you saying "your information / speculation is wrong, but I'm not going to say why". When you talk like that, you have no credibility. Period! Either you are here to share or go somewhere else and like I said earlier, why are we supposed to believe your statements that our speculations are wrong?

I'm waiting for you to tell me which part of that character assassination was not true.

If you are a real man, go and apologize to @Viet for pushing him (in a nasty way) to stop posting here after you said that you are not going to post here again, and then you continue posting. You created a big fight between vietnamese members because of that. So...... lets see if you can do that. Otherwise nobody can respect you here.


----------



## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Don't go around the bushes, I'm not talking about the Song Thu / Damen 2000 thing. I take issue with you saying "your information / speculation is wrong, but I'm not going to say why". When you talk like that, you have no credibility. Period! Either you are here to share or go somewhere else and like I said earlier, why are we supposed to believe your statements that our speculations are wrong?
> 
> I'm waiting for you to tell me which part of that character assassination was not true?
> 
> If you are a real man, go and apologize to @Viet for pushing him (in a nasty way) to stop posting here after you said that you are not going to post here again, and then you continue posting. You created a big fight between vietnamese members because of that. So...... lets see if you can do that. Otherwise nobody can respect you here.




No I am not beating around the bush. It seems like you are the one who is trying to change the topic here.

What I said about your “speculations” in that other thread belongs to that other thread and now you are trying to drag it here. I already explained what I said in that thread and gave you the last words. If you still have issue then continue in that thread.

Whatever fight I had with @Viet in the past is also offtopic in this Viet military thread. You are very free to start a new thread about it and feel free to criticize me there. It does not belong here.

The topic at hand here, relevant to this VN military thread, is that your friend @Viet had made a questionable claim about VN navy which I had called him out to clarify, and which *he still completely refused to clarify*.....that is the topic at hand relevant to this thread. So don’t twist it around and accuse me of beating around the bush. Your off-topic comments belong somewhere else and you are free to talk about that in another thread or start a new one.


----------



## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> No I am not beating around the bush. It seems like you are the one who is trying to change the topic here.
> 
> What I said about your “speculations” in that other thread belongs to that other thread and now you are trying to drag it here. I already explained what I said in that thread and gave you the last words. If you still have issue then continue in that thread.
> 
> Whatever fight I had with @Viet in the past is also offtopic in this Viet military thread. You are very free to start a new thread about it and feel free to criticize me there. It does not belong here.
> 
> The topic at hand here, relevant to this VN military thread, is that your friend @Viet had made a questionable claim about VN navy which I had called him out to clarify, and which *he still completely refused to clarify*.....that is the topic at hand relevant to this thread. So don’t twist it around and accuse me of beating around the bush. Your off-topic comments belong somewhere else and you are free to talk about that in another thread or start a new one.



If you like to make corrections, then apply the same standard in all threads. I don't accept your reasoning / excuses about that issue.

The issue of the past was brought up into this thread by you talking to Viet again and that restarted the fight. That fighting, the old fighting and the current fighting happened in this thread, so there is no reason to take it somewhere else. You accused @Viet of such, such and such..... in THIS THREAD. If this is off topic now, then it was also off topic at that time, so don't go hiding. There is unfinished business here, but it seems like you can't face up to that or admit that you were wrong. What is it? You are too much of an immature kid to apologize? You can't lose face? I tell you again, be a man and act like a man. Don't hide.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> The issue of the past was brought up into this thread by you talking to Viet again and that restarted the fight. That fighting, the old fighting and the current fighting happened in this thread, so there is no reason to take it somewhere else.



Read my posts again from #6003, it was a legitimate question and issue I raised, and I spoke to him in a very polite manner, even after he continued to insult me. I did not start any fight nor did I engaged in any fight in that last few pages. Any current fighting or insults, it is only coming from your friend, *not me*. Read it again in the previous few pages from post #6003.

It seems like you are just trying use the past to justify your friend’s current antics...again, its off topic, you can start a new thread on it if you want.




> You accused @Viet of such, such and such..... in THIS THREAD. If this is off topic now, then it was also off topic at that time, so don't go hiding.



Yes, this is off-topic now. And *YES*, indeed that was off-topic in the past, which the mod had already intervened.

Again, you seem to be invoking the past to justify the present. It was off-topic in the past so you want to be able to go off-topic now?

Let me say again, it is off topic and you can create a new thread for it. But this will be my last post on this issue here because it is *OFF-TOPIC*.




> There is unfinished business here, but it seems like you can't face up to that or admit that you were wrong. What is it? You are too much of an immature kid to apologize? You can't lose face? I tell you again, be a man and act like a man. Don't hide.



“Unfinished business”? This says it all. So you and your friend are dragging on this thing and acting this way because of past *grudge*. You are now completely ignoring the topic at hand (which was a questionable claim your friend had made bout the vn navy in which you add some further comments on top) and you are now just talking from emotions about some “unfinished business”. What do you want me to say, sorry? OK, I send a deep apology to @Viet or to you if I had ever wronged you, whatever it was. I am very deeply sorry!

There, it is official my friend.

Let me just mention that it is getting comical. Let me remind you that I have heated debate with a lot of members in the past, including against Jhungary, indonesian members, even other viet members like BoQ77, I think I even have insulted BoQ personally in the past when the debate gets too heated. But after its over, we are all happy again and talk to each other in a civilized manner on new topics. Jhungary replied to me professionally when I recently requested comments, Indonesian members are cool, BoQ77 is even trying to clarify my post and help me. Your friend @Viet called the indonesians the N*gg* word in the past but now they still talk to you guys in a civilized manner (now this is offtopic, see what I did?). I started a complaint thread against nihonjin but now feel bad and regret because looks like he dont want to come back at all. Me and most members I see here do not have long memories and hold grudge. Some Chinese members hold grudge against me or BoQ and I have issue with them when they troll but then this is why I don’t post often anymore and suggested the same to other. So, I do not have any “unfinished business” here, especially against viet members. If there are “unfinished business” like you claimed, it is only held by you or @veit, not me. You are projecting your own thoughts onto me. Now I realized you and @Veit have been holding grudge against me with the socalled “unfinished business”. That is very strange to me and explains your reactions.

So don’t accuse me of questioning @Viet’s posts because of my socalled “unfinished business”. He makes plenty of mistakes or write inaccurate posts a lot of the time that I can easily refute if I really have “unfinished business” against him like you claimed. I once suggested him to leave but do I now care if he stay? No. This is like my only second time I questioned/quoted him in a year. And I questioned his claim because it was partly used for your speculations. You accepted his claim as truth and said things like “wow so they(Song Thu) have already said that” or “good to hear my theories is proven right”, in a thread which you also complained that vn navy plan dont make sense or something about military corruption. So you can say, I questioned @Veit here mostly due to what was said in the other thread. But you can accuse me of “unfinished business” or whatever but its clear to me that it was you and your friend who have “unfinished business” with your grudge...my post number #6003 and the rude reactions I received says it all.

So I will end this issue here since its getting offtopic and rather like comical drama. I will say again, I really sorry to you and @Viet. Seeing your guys “unfinished business” thing, I now don’t think I can expect you guys to address the original topic and clarify or admit the false claims other than the short sentence “Im ok with the Song Thu thing”. 

Again, post elsewhere or create a new thread if you insist on dragging this on. It does not belong in here.


----------



## BoQ77

@William Hung : I hate your long post, LOL, for nothing. maybe you have more time and more language skill,
Try to make it brief, remove, edit posts of misunderstanding.

Hey @Viet: why you don't go ahead and admit that you take the news from songthu website undated, and you think that's an update news while actually it's a 2012 about first DN-2000 built in Song Thu, the 8002 ?

Yes, the Holland class was shown there, but it's a trick of the website Admin, to make us to fight here.
LOL.

Why you guys don't warmly welcome me to be back from such a long ban? like @JaiMin

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Read my posts again from #6003, it was a legitimate question and issue I raised, and I spoke to him in a very polite manner, even after he continued to insult me. I did not start any fight nor did I engaged in any fight in that last few pages. Any current fighting or insults, it is only coming from your friend, *not me*. Read it again in the previous few pages from post #6003.
> 
> It seems like you are just trying use the past to justify your friend’s current antics...again, its off topic, you can start a new thread on it if you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, this is off-topic now. And *YES*, indeed that was off-topic in the past, which the mod had already intervened.
> 
> Again, you seem to be invoking the past to justify the present. It was off-topic in the past so you want to be able to go off-topic now?
> 
> Let me say again, it is off topic and you can create a new thread for it. But this will be my last post on this issue here because it is *OFF-TOPIC*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Unfinished business”? This says it all. So you and your friend are dragging on this thing and acting this way because of past *grudge*. You are now completely ignoring the topic at hand (which was a questionable claim your friend had made bout the vn navy in which you add some further comments on top) and you are now just talking from emotions about some “unfinished business”. What do you want me to say, sorry? OK, I send a deep apology to @Viet or to you if I had ever wronged you, whatever it was. I am very deeply sorry!
> 
> There, it is official my friend.
> 
> Let me just mention that it is getting comical. Let me remind you that I have heated debate with a lot of members in the past, including against Jhungary, indonesian members, even other viet members like BoQ77, I think I even have insulted BoQ personally in the past when the debate gets too heated. But after its over, we are all happy again and talk to each other in a civilized manner on new topics. Jhungary replied to me professionally when I recently requested comments, Indonesian members are cool, BoQ77 is even trying to clarify my post and help me. Your friend @Viet called the indonesians the N*gg* word in the past but now they still talk to you guys in a civilized manner (now this is offtopic, see what I did?). I started a complaint thread against nihonjin but now feel bad and regret because looks like he dont want to come back at all. Me and most members I see here do not have long memories and hold grudge. Some Chinese members hold grudge against me or BoQ and I have issue with them when they troll but then this is why I don’t post often anymore and suggested the same to other. So, I do not have any “unfinished business” here, especially against viet members. If there are “unfinished business” like you claimed, it is only held by you or @veit, not me. You are projecting your own thoughts onto me. Now I realized you and @Veit have been holding grudge against me with the socalled “unfinished business”. That is very strange to me and explains your reactions.
> 
> So don’t accuse me of questioning @Viet’s posts because of my socalled “unfinished business”. He makes plenty of mistakes or write inaccurate posts a lot of the time that I can easily refute if I really have “unfinished business” against him like you claimed. I once suggested him to leave but do I now care if he stay? No. This is like my only second time I questioned/quoted him in a year. And I questioned his claim because it was partly used for your speculations. You accepted his claim as truth and said things like “wow so they(Song Thu) have already said that” or “good to hear my theories is proven right”, in a thread which you also complained that vn navy plan dont make sense or something about military corruption. So you can say, I questioned @Veit here mostly due to what was said in the other thread. But you can accuse me of “unfinished business” or whatever but its clear to me that it was you and your friend who have “unfinished business” with your grudge...my post number #6003 and the rude reactions I received says it all.
> 
> So I will end this issue here since its getting offtopic and rather like comical drama. I will say again, I really sorry to you and @Viet. Seeing your guys “unfinished business” thing, I now don’t think I can expect you guys to address the original topic and clarify or admit the false claims other than the short sentence “Im ok with the Song Thu thing”.
> 
> Again, post elsewhere or create a new thread if you insist on dragging this on. It does not belong in here.



This is also my last post about this issue.

You don't get it, you restarted the fight by talking to Viet again, you know you were not supposed to do that, you knew that would restart the fight and actually, no, your fight with Viet was actually the worse that I had seen in this thread other than with chinese members, but its not just that, the fact is, you were simply very, very wrong in pushing him to quit PDF and getting nasty with him, and then to add insult to injury, after all of that and after saying all that to him, you continued posting under another name. What is it about that that you don't understand?

*Edit:* Forgot to respond to a point. No, I'm not accusing you of questioning @Viet’s posts because of the so called “unfinished business”. The problem is, you are so used to fighting that you maybe think its ok and move on, but its not ok, that's just your perception, maybe you expected @Viet to forget everything, but if that's the case, you perception and judgement is pretty bad. You should it have known that you just simply should not talk to him again. *Edit end.*

Ok, its nice to see you apologizing, can have respect for you again. You are very smart, but you are very young and immature and you have an aggressive streak, you are very easy to start fights with others and you have a tendency to see issues / problems in what others say when actually there is nothing of that sort and that's another reason that makes it easy for you to get into fights. I suggest you look at yourself and try to change or you are never going to get along with people. I tell you this not for the sake of wanting to criticize you, but because I think you need to hear this and hopefully you'll do something about it. I'm also much older than you.

The issue is finished for me. The unfinished business is really between you and him and I can't talk for Viet. I hope he accepts your apology. No need to apologize to me, your fighting was with Viet, not with me, but like I said, I'm older than you, so I felt that I needed to say something. Good luck with him. I'm not talking anymore about this. Cheers.



BoQ77 said:


> @William Hung : I hate your long post, LOL, for nothing. maybe you have more time and more language skill,
> Try to make it brief, remove, edit posts of misunderstanding.
> 
> Hey @Viet: why you don't go ahead and admit that you take the news from songthu website undated, and you think that's an update news while actually it's a 2012 about first DN-2000 built in Song Thu, the 8002 ?
> 
> Yes, the Holland class was shown there, but it's a trick of the website Admin, to make us to fight here.
> LOL.
> 
> Why you guys don't warmly welcome me to be back from such a long ban? like @JaiMin



Hey, didn't I say something nice to you the other day and I said that I didn't want you banned, I wanted to see you here, so don't go fighting with the chinese? Give me some credit man. 



Viet said:


> Bingo. Yes, it's him. He just has another ID now. Actually I have no interest in fighting with him.



@Viet oi, I suggest you accept @William Hung 's apology and make peace. You are an adult and you know its better that way. You know he is still a kid, smart kid, but still a kid (Yeah, I can say that because he and many others here really are like kids from my perspective because of age difference and once you guys mature a bit more, after a number of years, you will understand that, ok?), so bury the hatchet. Save the fighting for the chinese. Thank you.



BoQ77 said:


> @William Hung : I hate your long post, LOL, for nothing. maybe you have more time and more language skill,
> Try to make it brief, remove, edit posts of misunderstanding.
> 
> Hey @Viet: why you don't go ahead and admit that you take the news from songthu website undated, and you think that's an update news while actually it's a 2012 about first DN-2000 built in Song Thu, the 8002 ?
> 
> Yes, the Holland class was shown there, but it's a trick of the website Admin, to make us to fight here.
> LOL.
> 
> Why you guys don't warmly welcome me to be back from such a long ban? like @JaiMin



@BoQ77 oi, that's not really the issue, that's actually nothing, it doesn't matter what the issue would be or how small an issue is, Viet hates his guts and for good reasons, so any interaction would have the same results.

@Viet is not going to have issues because of someone correcting him, I corrected him many times also, he is not a little kid, that's not a problem for him. Those two have unfinished business, so its actually good to have this situation and try to fix things, its better for the long term. Now have to see how Viet responds.

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## RISING SUN

William Hung said:


> Wow this is so cheap.
> 
> I let you have the last words in the other thread but you still decided to continue it here and now try for character assassination and attack me here.
> 
> So let's bring you to the topic I was talking about with @Viet here because you also became part of the conversation of his Song Thu post and even made your own comments on it. I caught @Viet making inaccurate claims and asked him to clarify...you on the other hand seem to take his words as gospel. I have explained to Viet why his post was inaccurate but he refused to directly address it and attacked me instead...so are you willing to man up and address that inaccuracy or are you just going to join your friend in personal attacks against me?
> 
> (I am talking about the post on Song Thu and the socalled “warship based on a variant of the DN-2000” which you also mentioned in the other thread.)
> 
> 
> 
> I was talking about @Viet’s post on Song Thu and that socalled “warship variant”. I have already explained that the vietnamese article he posted *did not mentioned* whatt he claimed, the picture he posted was a Holland-class OPV, and as I said there have been no credible sources that have mentioned what he claimed. So I asked him to clarify...because people like you took his words as gospel without verifying it.


Character assassination LOL!!!! It is done against them who do have it. What benefits one will get by doing character assassination of a person who doesn't have the character at all. And yes one can't get a clean slate if sin is done is in past. One can only repent to reduce the impact of the damage. And any one is here free to quate anyone and everyone is free to ignore someone. So if Viet don't wish to reply to you, it is not Mandatory for him to reply to you. And yes you can keep whining on character assassination and stalking of Viet.



Carlosa said:


> This is also my last post about this issue.
> 
> You don't get it, you restarted the fight by talking to Viet again, you know you were not supposed to do that, you knew that would restart the fight and actually, no, your fight with Viet was actually the worse that I had seen in this thread other than with chinese members, but its not just that, the fact is, you were simply very, very wrong in pushing him to quit PDF and getting nasty with him, and then to add insult to injury, after all of that and after saying all that to him, you continued posting under another name. What is it about that that you don't understand?
> 
> *Edit:* Forgot to respond to a point. No, I'm not accusing you of questioning @Viet’s posts because of the so called “unfinished business”. The problem is, you are so used to fighting that you maybe think its ok and move on, but its not ok, that's just your perception, maybe you expected @Viet to forget everything, but if that's the case, you perception and judgement is pretty bad. You should it have known that you just simply should not talk to him again. *Edit end.*
> 
> Ok, its nice to see you apologizing, can have respect for you again. You are very smart, but you are very young and immature and you have an aggressive streak, you are very easy to start fights with others and you have a tendency to see issues / problems in what others say when actually there is nothing of that sort and that's another reason that makes it easy for you to get into fights. I suggest you look at yourself and try to change or you are never going to get along with people. I tell you this not for the sake of wanting to criticize you, but because I think you need to hear this and hopefully you'll do something about it. I'm also much older than you.
> 
> The issue is finished for me. The unfinished business is really between you and him and I can't talk for Viet. I hope he accepts your apology. No need to apologize to me, your fighting was with Viet, not with me, but like I said, I'm older than you, so I felt that I needed to say something. Good luck with him. I'm not talking anymore about this. Cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, didn't I say something nice to you the other day and I said that I didn't want you banned, I wanted to see you here, so don't go fighting with the chinese? Give me some credit man.
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet oi, I suggest you accept @William Hung 's apology and make peace. You are an adult and you know its better that way. You know he is still a kid, smart kid, but still a kid (Yeah, I can say that because he and many others here really are like kids from my perspective because of age difference and once you guys mature a bit more, after a number of years, you will understand that, ok?), so bury the hatchet. Save the fighting for the chinese. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> @BoQ77 oi, that's not really the issue, that's actually nothing, it doesn't matter what the issue would be or how small an issue is, Viet hates his guts and for good reasons, so any interaction would have the same results.
> 
> @Viet is not going to have issues because of someone correcting him, I corrected him many times also, he is not a little kid, that's not a problem for him. Those two have unfinished business, so its actually good to have this situation and try to fix things, its better for the long term. Now have to see how Viet responds.


I believe Viet should not reply to willium hung for what he did in past. That can't be erased nor it can be forgiven. So I will urge you to not push Viet in pardoning hung. Willium hung has bad motive behind his/her stalking and engaging Viet, so no point in any discussion with him. I will support Viet anyday over that liar.

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## Carlosa

RISING SUN said:


> Character assassination LOL!!!! It is done against them who do have it. What benefits one will get by doing character assassination of a person who doesn't have the character at all. And yes one can't get a clean slate if sin is done is in past. One can only repent to reduce the impact of the damage. And any one is here free to quate anyone and everyone is free to ignore someone. So if Viet don't wish to reply to you, it is not Mandatory for him to reply to you. And yes you can keep whining on character assassination and stalking of Viet.
> 
> 
> I believe Viet should not reply to willium hung for what he did in past. That can't be erased nor it can be forgiven. So I will urge you to not push Viet in pardoning hung. Willium hung has bad motive behind his/her stalking and engaging Viet, so no point in any discussion with him. I will support Viet anyday over that liar.



Thank you for your input man, I really appreciate that. Well, I wonder if you had been involved or seen other issues with William Hung / Black flag / Yoro....something that I probably don't even know about and to see you pissed off like this.......... wow, that's something.

Well, Its up to Viet, I'm not going to say anything else to him, I think I said enough. I think its always better to forgive and forget and I really think that the kid is not bad, but he is immature and prone to fighting (and something in his head is not quite right). Nobody is perfect. Maybe you know some things that I don't know, that if I know, could make me change my opinion, I don't know. Lets wish for the best in the spirit of Bhakti.

@William Hung I break my promise for a moment to say that, you see? The way you did with Viet last year was not just a little thing to get over with and then talk again like if nothing happened. You can see the emotions created on others that also were not part of the situation. Are you learning something from this? I hope so.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> @William Hung I break my promise for a moment to say that, you see? The way you did with Viet last year was not just a little thing to get over with and then talk again like if nothing happened. You can see the emotions created on others that also were not part of the situation. Are you learning something from this? I hope so.



lol of course you will break your promise, I was expecting that. I let you have the last words in that other thread to say whatever you want but apparantly that was not enough, you still had to jump into here too at post #6023 to attack me eventhough I did not provoked you nor did Viet tagged you. Then I still let you have the last words here but you still broke your own promise to write more. Its ok lol, I was expecting it, no prob.

I will keep my promise and will not talk more on this issue (well, technically this post in itself is on the issue), I mean I will not comment on the issue, those funny accusations or insinuations from that member that just jumped in or from you. All the posts in the last few pages is there for all to see. Even the past fight with Viet, the socalled un-erasable sin lol, is still there way back in this thread if people wanted to see. I’ve already said enough, the posts from me and from you guys can say it all.

So, you you guys can continue to keep talking on it. I will not. Lee Nguyen just scored an awesome goal and I am feeling too happy.

Love,

Willy Hung


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## Aqsuperman

Facebook is down and another 3 pages of mud fight......Cheers, guys 







Vietnamese conscript in French colonial army with a Hotchkiss machinegun. These guys and the guns will later support the vietnam national army after the 1945 in the fight against France

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## Viet

I'm busy right now, will respond to all a bit later. Not sure if I respond to the pathetic loser with multiple IDs and hiding flags as well.

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## Aqsuperman

Su-30 with a Kh-31 missile, not clear if its an anti-ship or anti-radiation


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## BoQ77

Aqsuperman said:


> Su-30 with a Kh-31 missile, not clear if its an anti-ship or anti-radiation


It is a P variant

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## Viet

BoQ77, Carlosa, Rising Sun and others

I will need to tell you a bit about him. The clown. The stalker. I don´t know why it happened and why me. but thing started as:

- when he urged me to quit this forum, because PDF is bad, influenced by chinese, flooded with insults against vietnamese members (monkey and other usual stuffs he cited). And if I quit he will follow me.

- interesting of the story is, he had not addressed all vietnamese members.

- when I refused, he became nasty. He asked me to change ID, "Viet", because other members can mistake I speak for VN.

- there are at least two other members that have "Viet" in their ID, but he did not bother them.

- he complained he was banned and wonder why I am not. He accused me of being a Chinese shadow, a spy working on behalf of Chinese. My "pro Vietnam" sentiment is just a fake, a fascade. As evidence, if I recalled, he called on @ChineseTiger1986 and cited a post that was made by me years ago.

- in the post I said something like this: China is a normal country. Also, Chinese are human being.

- he laughed, screamed I made the dumbest post ever on this forum, when I said Koreans can look for jobs in VN. Although I previously posted an article about Koreans looking for jobs in VN published on a Korean website.

- after I posted a scientific findings of the Harvard Medical Schhol, saying the Viet people forfarthers came from Taiwan. he tried defaming VN by desperate attempts linking the Viet people to the Khmer, by citing fake articles from obscure persons.

- he twisted words, making other people feeling inferior to him.

In short, this guy is not only a clown but a liar.

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## BoQ77

You are trying to win a meaningless battle.
Whether I agree with you guys on things or not, I wouldnt call you as foolish and so on. In person, I consider WH as a little brother.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> We should do our best to clarify our own post to other enquiries on it.
> An Indian didn´t ask you for more details if he didnt pay attention to your content.


One more thing. When I said a certain shipyard can make warships based on a certain variant xyz, that means how I interpreted it.

It is like situation when I see a painting and try to interpre what the painter wants to say.

I take the message from the website, combine it with other news related to it, and make the statement. It is not translated word by word. My interpretation can be right or wrong. If the latter, I have no problem at all if someone corrects it.

But I take thing very personally with stalker, who contributes nothing but awaits a chance to jump in, asking me for this for that with ill intentions.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> One more thing. When I said a certain shipyard can make warships based on a certain variant xyz, that means how I interpreted it.
> 
> It is like situation when I see a painting and try to interpre what the painter wants to say.
> 
> I take the message from the website, combine it with other news related to it, and make the statement. It is not translated word by word. My interpretation can be right or wrong. If the latter, I have no problem at all if someone corrects it.
> 
> But I take thing very personally with stalker, who contributes nothing but awaits a chance to jump in, asking me for this for that with ill intentions.



Assuming as most of members here, itself is very normal.
As advised by Carlosa, I understand that there's something happened between you 2 before.
WH intercepted Carlosa posts in Indian forum by similar issue, too.

But we feel it's very normal to have someone doubt on credit of our posts, because sometimes our posts created from feeling, even our dream. And our dreams used to be different.

We didn't judge on a single post, but if we focus on that single post ( DN2000 ), the better way is correcting your post Viet, worse way is "la làng" WH.


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## Viet

Let continue on the main topics: Military, Defence, Diplomacy

The schedule of Barack Obama´s visit has changed: the Airforce One will hit Vietnam ground on May 23. The US President will hold talks Hanoi on May 23 and in Saigon on May 24. the plane will leave for Japan on the afternoon of May 25 for the G7 Summit. so the visit is cut down by a day.

as one of the 7 special guests invited by the Japanese govenment under Shinzo Abe, the new Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc is scheduled to depart for Japan, holding talks with the G7 countries on May 26-27. so the lost day is partially a loss.

Airforce One









the reschedule may be partially caused by the visit of the new Vietnamese government under Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, the first oversea visit: a five-day official summit in Russia from May 16-20, where he will meet the President of Russia Vladimir Putin.

Newly elected Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc sworn in at the Parliament.

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## BoQ77

Actually, as initial plan, Obama arrives late on 22 May ( means before noon 22 May, US time ), now revised to early on 23 May means after noon 22 May Washington time.

I estimated he departed on or about early on 22 May or late on 21 May, Washington time. 

And Obama would stay in Hanoi on 23 May and leave Hanoi on 24 May afternoon as earliest.
He has been to HCMC until leaving for Japan at 25 May afternoon.

His schedule change considered to be very normal.
Our customer always start the visit on working days. 22 May is Sunday, the election day too.

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## Viet

Can any of Vietnam shipyards build submarines, like those of Kilo attack submarines the Navy currently operate?







some say impossible, not realistic right now, nor in the near future. too complex, too difficult, out of reach.
though some other say one of the candidates that could be able to build submarines is Song Cam shipyard in the northern city of Hai Phong. I think it is a long way. the important thing is we need men and women with vision.

Song Cam shipyard

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## MacanJawa

yo guys what kind anti tank weaponry you have?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Can any of Vietnam shipyards build submarines, like those of Kilo attack submarines the Navy currently operate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some say impossible, not realistic right now, nor in the near future. too complex, too difficult, out of reach.
> though some other say one of the candidates that could be able to build submarines is Song Cam shipyard in the northern city of Hai Phong. I think it is a long way. the important thing is we need men and women with vision.
> 
> Song Cam shipyard



Its not just the shipyard, the steel used in submarines is special. Indonesia is doing it now under Korean license. You can ask @madokafc what they had to sep up to be able to build them.


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> yo guys what kind anti tank weaponry you have?


B-10 calibre 82mm






SPG-9 calibre 73mm
















M-20 calibre 75mm








SPG-9T2 on M113, BMP-1 tank


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## Aqsuperman

MacanJawa said:


> yo guys what kind anti tank weaponry you have?



RPG-7 which is standard issue , we also have PG-7VR warhead for modern ERA 






RPG-29, a limited amount is on hand 






RPG-2, quite old but still somewhat effective for light armored target


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## BoQ77

How about this ?

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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> Its not just the shipyard, the steel used in submarines is special. Indonesia is doing it now under Korean license. You can ask @madokafc what they had to sep up to be able to build them.



yep i confirm this in 2030 indonesia able make submarine, jets KFX/IFX and tanks, and we will sell it to asean member hihihihi



BoQ77 said:


> How about this ?



this is ww2 SU 76?


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Its not just the shipyard, the steel used in submarines is special. Indonesia is doing it now under Korean license. You can ask @madokafc what they had to sep up to be able to build them.



we are collaborating with Korean Posco Steel industries to setting up new steel mills to be used on warships, then setting up new ship design research center, setting up new metallurgy school institute, and doing a lot of research and joint agreements with other countries, building a lot of research facilities to be used for the development of warships and submarines. Not to mention sending off hundreds if not thousands of scientist and engineer to South Korean, France, Germany, Turkey, Russia to learn about shipyard and submarine production and building a lot of technical skills.....

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## Indos

*More info on our collaboration with Posco :

2013 News*

POSCO began operations of Southeast Asia’s first integrated steelworks. POSCO conducted a ceremony in Cilegon, Indonesia on December 23rd, to ignite the 3 million ton furnace for the first time.

This marked the first time in 40 years that POSCO began producing molten iron overseas since its first effort on Yeongilman Bay in Pohang. POSCO’s 40 years of devotion to steel has begun to make its appearance overseas.

Krakatau POSCO was jointly established by POSCO and Indonesia’s state-run Krakatau Steel at a share ratio of 7 to 3, and boasts iron making, steelmaking, and steel plate production facilities. The company is capable of producing 1.8 million tons of slab and 1.2 million tons of steel plate.

- See more at: http://globalblog.posco.com/krakata...steelworks_in_indonesia/#sthash.ahAqNN3T.dpuf

The investment will continue until 2020 as I remember based on the plan, and just Yesterday Posco has given its promise to make more investment during JokoWidodo visit to South Korea.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> we are collaborating with Korean Posco Steel industries to setting up new steel mills to be used on warships, then setting up new ship design research center, setting up new metallurgy school institute, and doing a lot of research and joint agreements with other countries, building a lot of research facilities to be used for the development of warships and submarines. Not to mention sending off hundreds if not thousands of scientist and engineer to South Korean, France, Germany, Turkey, Russia to learn about shipyard and submarine production and building a lot of technical skills.....



Thanks.

There you go @Viet Now you look at that list and check how many of those things are being done by VN, that will give you an idea about the prospects.



MacanJawa said:


> yep i confirm this in 2030 indonesia able make submarine, jets KFX/IFX and tanks, and we will sell it to asean member hihihihi
> 
> 
> 
> this is ww2 SU 76?



2S3 Akatsiya, 152mm self-propelled gun. Produced in Russia from 1967 to 1993.



Indos said:


> *More info on our collaboration with Posco :
> 
> 2013 News*
> 
> POSCO began operations of Southeast Asia’s first integrated steelworks. POSCO conducted a ceremony in Cilegon, Indonesia on December 23rd, to ignite the 3 million ton furnace for the first time.
> 
> This marked the first time in 40 years that POSCO began producing molten iron overseas since its first effort on Yeongilman Bay in Pohang. POSCO’s 40 years of devotion to steel has begun to make its appearance overseas.
> 
> Krakatau POSCO was jointly established by POSCO and Indonesia’s state-run Krakatau Steel at a share ratio of 7 to 3, and boasts iron making, steelmaking, and steel plate production facilities. The company is capable of producing 1.8 million tons of slab and 1.2 million tons of steel plate.
> 
> - See more at: http://globalblog.posco.com/krakata...steelworks_in_indonesia/#sthash.ahAqNN3T.dpuf
> 
> The investment will continue until 2020 as I remember based on the plan, and just Yesterday Posco has given its promise to make more investment during JokoWidodo visit to South Korea.



Alhumdulillah

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Thanks.
> 
> There you go @Viet Now you look at that list and check how many of those things are being done by VN, that will give you an idea about the prospects.
> 
> 
> 
> 2S3 Akatsiya, 152mm self-propelled gun. Produced in Russia from 1967 to 1993.
> 
> 
> 
> Alhumdulillah




the same can be said for our efforts to build warplanes like KFX/IFX projects, first Indonesian party must build fighter plane research design center in collaboration with South Korea, building new hanggar facility to assembled the prototype, encouraging more investment into planes spare parts production facilities and so far more than 20 local producer had commitment to joint the consortium, building new faculty in jet mechanics propulsion research and design at our universities, and so on.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> the same can be said for our efforts to build warplanes like KFX/IFX projects, first Indonesian party must build fighter plane research design center in collaboration with South Korea, building new hanggar facility to assembled the prototype, encouraging more investment into planes spare parts production facilities and so far more than 20 local producer had commitment to joint the consortium, building new faculty in jet mechanics propulsion research and design at our universities, and so on.



Right, have to have a comprehensive, multi faceted approach that covers all the angles. 
I don't see VN doing anything like that so far.


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## Aqsuperman

One of VN earliest tank, now in reserve or training and dug-in bunker


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## BoQ77



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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its not just the shipyard, the steel used in submarines is special. Indonesia is doing it now under Korean license. You can ask @madokafc what they had to sep up to be able to build them.


I know I know...building submarines is an engineering feat, just gave my opinion to a report. we are still 1,000 miles away, but would be good if we make the first step.

_http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/science-it/152882/should-vietnam-build-military-submarines-.html

“*Vietnam is quite capable of building military subs*, though, like any other country, we will have to experience big difficulties,” said Hoang Hung, deputy chair and secretary general of the Vietnam Shipbuilding Science Association.

“It is wrong to say Vietnam should not ‘dream’ of building military subs,” he commented._

_“In the past, Vietnamese once thought they would never be able to build hydropower plants. However, after building the Hoa Binh Hydropower Plant, we could build Song Da Plant which is a big one in the world,” he said, adding that Vietnam should not shrink back from difficulties, because even Russia, Poland and Germany also failed before their successes. 

“No one could imagine that Vietnam would be able to make a drilling rig. Meanwhile, PV Shipyard has recently launched Tam Dao 05 jack-up with the total tonnage of 18,000 tons,” he said.
_

as for steel, alone, the first part of the giant Formosa Ha Tinh steel complex (at the cost of $28.5 billion) is due to start operation this June, with a combined capacity of 22.5 million tons of steel a year. that is more than enough to build 1,000 high rising buildings or 1,000 warships and submarines a year. well, we need special steel for the latter 

Formosa Ha Tinh steel complex

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## Viet

I believe our chinese peaceful rise friends are not only the ones, that reclaim lands in the South China Sea, but I´m afraid our effort and result is tinny (120 acres) compared to that of China it has created over 3,000 acres in a short period of time.

what can we do to catch up?

- take a loan of AIIB?
- employ Chinese experts on island building?
- buying high quality dredging machines made in China?

any other suggestions?

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## Viet



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## Aqsuperman

You all know what is funny about all of this ? All the picture and details of Vietnam islands expansion always come from non-Vietnamese sources. Talking about being secret lol ? :v Still, this is quite something. Not really comparable to China efforts but much better than the rest of the competitor around there.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> You all know what is funny about all of this ? All the picture and details of Vietnam islands expansion always come from non-Vietnamese sources. Talking about being secret lol ? :v Still, this is quite something. Not really comparable to China efforts but much better than the rest of the competitor around there.


well, today satellites can see everything on the earth surface. even recognising what food what you eat, what friend you invite to the garden party 

back to the pictures, the most interesting pic of the collection is this: the runway of Spratly island (Sân bay Trường Sa). the only 800m (2,625 feet) long runway in the Spratly, currently capable for patrol aircraft to land and take off.

let consider this: a Su30 aircraft requires about 2,500 feet long runway, with the help of drag parachutes, assuming the aircraft carries normal fuel and load. so theoretically our Su30 bombers can land and take off. to take off, the plane needs less, about 1,500 ft of runway. from the image, I would guess, the runway is extended by 500m. 800m + 500m = 1,300m.








so it is safe to say, our Su30 bombers can land and take off with full load. the Airforce can station two interceptors on the island. just in case. protected by hardened shelter and aerial defence.

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## Aqsuperman

The weather out there is fairly brutal even with well-maintance policy. Establishing support facilities out there for fighters from inland to re-fuel and re-arm is good but to permanently station aircraft on the land is not really efficient.


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## Viet

*Over 1,000 people to escort President Obama during Vietnam visit*

Tuoi Tre News
Updated : 05/17/2016 





_United States President Barrack Obama (L) is accompanied by secret service agents after arriving at Tampa International Airport in Florida, the U.S._


*More than 1,000 people are expected to accompany United States President Barrack Obama during his visit to Vietnam from May 23 to 25, according to a Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper source.
*

President Obama is slated to arrive on board Air Force One at Noi Bai International Airport and to visit Ho Chi Minh City the following day, before leaving for Japan on the last day of his visit.

The president’s visit to Vietnam is aimed at addressing various matters, including maritime disputes and human rights, the White House stated. The delegation includes officials and employees of the U.S. government, the president’s entourage, representatives of businesses, security officers, and secret service agents, the source added.

About six hotels in Vietnam are anticipated to be rented in order to accommodate the large group of visitors. According to the _Tuoi Tre_ source, U.S. teams in charge of security and preparations for the upcoming trip of President Obama have arrived in the country to work with their Vietnamese counterparts.

This includes discussing proper ways to welcome the head of state, and transport him during his visit.

Three Boeing C-17 Globemaster III military transport aircraft have landed at Noi Bai International Airport in Hanoi so far, carrying tens of metric tons of equipment set to assist the arrival of the U.S. president. The most recent plane brought some 53 metric tons of such equipment to the capital’s airport, the source said.

“At least four more aircraft of the same type are scheduled to arrive at the international airport prior to the president’s visit to transfer all necessary items for his entire trip,” it added.

They will also carry the helicopter Marine One, the presidential state car, automobiles of other key officials of the delegation, special vehicles, ambulances, weapons for security and protection, and devices for communication.

According to Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the U.S. president is to arrive in Vietnam for an official visit on the morning of May 23, instead of the night before as earlier announced.

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## Viet

a bit of history

What supports, weaponry had the Soviet Union provided to North Vietnam during the Vietnam war?

700 warplanes, 2,000 tanks, 7,000 artillery guns, over 5,000 anti-aircraft guns, 158 surface-to-air missile launchers. endless small arms weapons. about 10,000 members of the Soviet Red Army served as advisers in North Vietnam. In addition, Russian military schools and academies trained more than 10,000 Vietnamese military personnel. Just 13 Soviet citizens lost their lives in the entire conflict.

One of the dogfight tactics, which was used by North Vietnamese fightet pilots during the Vietnam war, was attacking US fighter jets in an ambush: a single MIG-21 fighter jet in camouflage painting, dark green color over natural metal, coming down from high altitude, rushed in when US fighter pilots were engaging other North Vietnamese aircraft.

Mig-21





F-4 Phantom






Mig-21 camouflage

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## Viet

but one secret weapon, the USSR Military Central Command refused to deliver to North Vietnam:

Soviet OSA class missile boats armed with highly accurate Styx antiship missile. the missile had the potential to wreck havoc on the US Navy. Moscow believed the Americans would become desperate, have resorted to nuclear strike on Vietnam had they lost one of their aircraft carriers.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> *Over 1,000 people to escort President Obama during Vietnam visit*
> 
> Tuoi Tre News
> Updated : 05/17/2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _United States President Barrack Obama (L) is accompanied by secret service agents after arriving at Tampa International Airport in Florida, the U.S._
> 
> 
> *More than 1,000 people are expected to accompany United States President Barrack Obama during his visit to Vietnam from May 23 to 25, according to a Tuoi Tre (Youth) newspaper source.
> *
> 
> President Obama is slated to arrive on board Air Force One at Noi Bai International Airport and to visit Ho Chi Minh City the following day, before leaving for Japan on the last day of his visit.
> 
> The president’s visit to Vietnam is aimed at addressing various matters, including maritime disputes and human rights, the White House stated. The delegation includes officials and employees of the U.S. government, the president’s entourage, representatives of businesses, security officers, and secret service agents, the source added.
> 
> About six hotels in Vietnam are anticipated to be rented in order to accommodate the large group of visitors. According to the _Tuoi Tre_ source, U.S. teams in charge of security and preparations for the upcoming trip of President Obama have arrived in the country to work with their Vietnamese counterparts.
> 
> This includes discussing proper ways to welcome the head of state, and transport him during his visit.
> 
> Three Boeing C-17 Globemaster III military transport aircraft have landed at Noi Bai International Airport in Hanoi so far, carrying tens of metric tons of equipment set to assist the arrival of the U.S. president. The most recent plane brought some 53 metric tons of such equipment to the capital’s airport, the source said.
> 
> “At least four more aircraft of the same type are scheduled to arrive at the international airport prior to the president’s visit to transfer all necessary items for his entire trip,” it added.
> 
> They will also carry the helicopter Marine One, the presidential state car, automobiles of other key officials of the delegation, special vehicles, ambulances, weapons for security and protection, and devices for communication.
> 
> According to Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the U.S. president is to arrive in Vietnam for an official visit on the morning of May 23, instead of the night before as earlier announced.



Yo, why didn't they do this to Xi Jinping? Oh, right because he's just a number. LOL


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## CCP

vtnsx said:


> Yo, why didn't they do this to Xi Jinping? Oh, right because he's just a number. LOL



I guess its because US killed more vietnamese than we did.


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## Aqsuperman

New nhà giàn to be put into service soon !

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## vtnsx

CCP said:


> I guess its because US killed more vietnamese than we did.



Lol, then you're dumb. Obviously, you have no idea how the Vietnam war works.

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## Viet

*Russian shipyard to deliver two frigates for Vietnam in August, September*
Military & Defense
May 17, 16:08 UTC+3 MOSCOW

Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Zelenodolsk Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov says






© Lev Fedoseev/TASS



MOSCOW, May 17. /TASS/. Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates built by Russia’s Zelenodolsk Shipyard will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov said on Tuesday.

"We are currently building two ships for Vietnam. The first frigate has already been put afloat. The second vessel will be floated out on May 25," Mistakhov said. "We will deliver the two frigates to Vietnam in August and September."

The Vietnamese Navy received the first two Project 11661 frigates in 2011. A contract for the construction of another two Project 11661 ships was signed in 2012. The two ships were laid down in the autumn of 2013.




More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/876235

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## Viet

*Vietnam open to Russian return to Cam Ranh Bay*
May 18, 2016 Alex Snegov, RBTH

Hanoi’s envoy cautions against military alliances.





_ Russian ships may return to Vietnamese waters. Source: Yuri Smityuk/TASS_


Vietnam is open to the idea of the Russian Navy returning to its former military base in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnamese Ambassador to Russia Nguyen Thanh Sean told RIA Novosti on May 17. 

“Vietnam's policy is to not enter into military alliances or to ally with one state against another,” Sean told the news agency. “In this context, the implementation of the Cam Ranh port for multilateral international cooperation to ensure that maritime transport services, repair of ships and military technology, to ensure peace and stability in the region is the appropriate direction.”

He added, “Although currently in the Eastern (South China) sea, there are many problems that need to be addressed, the ASEAN countries have common views that disputes must be resolved based on international principles, in particular the Convention of the United Nations Law of the Sea (UNLOS), the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) and the Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC), avoiding threats and the use of force, while diversifying relations, based on respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity.”

The USSR used the Cam Ranh Bay naval base after the Vietnam War. Russia withdrew from the base in 2002.

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## BoQ77

@Carlosa remember this ?

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> @Carlosa remember this ?



I sure do. That air defense system is already set up with 23mm dual barrel guns and 14.5mm 4 barrel guns. I imagine they are now working with 37 and 57mm guns.

They are also working on a domestic air defense system using infrared missiles.

Put those 3 things together, the eyeball sensor detection system (camera & laser), the gun and infrared missiles and you have a poor's man Pantsir type of capability. Not bad at all.

Also, put together a gun, lets say the 23mm or the 37mm (37mm better) with the eyeball sensor on it and mount it in a turret and you have a naval point air defense system for ships kind off like the Palma (if you add missiles) or like the AK-630 but better since the AK-630 doesn't have the eyeball sensor.

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## Penguin

Viet said:


> *Russian shipyard to deliver two frigates for Vietnam in August, September*
> Military & Defense
> May 17, 16:08 UTC+3 MOSCOW
> 
> Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Zelenodolsk Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov says
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Lev Fedoseev/TASS
> 
> 
> 
> MOSCOW, May 17. /TASS/. Two Project 11661 Gepard-3.9-class frigates built by Russia’s Zelenodolsk Shipyard will be delivered to Vietnam in August and September, Shipyard CEO Renat Mistakhov said on Tuesday.
> 
> "We are currently building two ships for Vietnam. The first frigate has already been put afloat. The second vessel will be floated out on May 25," Mistakhov said. "We will deliver the two frigates to Vietnam in August and September."
> 
> The Vietnamese Navy received the first two Project 11661 frigates in 2011. A contract for the construction of another two Project 11661 ships was signed in 2012. The two ships were laid down in the autumn of 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More:
> http://tass.ru/en/defense/876235


Funny the article should include this picture in particular: In July 2015 the Russian Krivak/Burevestnik frigate _Ladny_ took part in Navy Day celebrations in Sevastopol and while _Ladny_ demonstrated her firepower, one of her SS-N-14 missiles misfired and spiralled out of control before landing harmlessly in the sea. Quite spectaular!

SS-N-14 Silex










How it is supposed to go

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## Viet

The New York Times
*Obama in Vietnam Will Focus on Future, Rather Than the Past*




President Obama arrived at Newark International Airport on Sunday. Mr. Obama will visit Hanoi next Sunday.

ZACH GIBSON / THE NEW YORK TIMES
*MAY 15, 2016
*
White House Letter
By GARDINER HARRIS


WASHINGTON — The pictures will be unavoidable, and the flood of painful memories unstoppable.

When President Obama lands next Sunday in Hanoi, his visit will be chronicled by photographers, cameramen and journalists who will track every public move of only the third presidential visit to Vietnam since the end of the American war there.

Mr. Obama’s former defense secretary, Chuck Hagel, said he is already bracing for the onslaught of recollections those pictures and articles are likely to inspire.

“I know those images will hit me,” said Mr. Hagel, whose 12 months as a soldier in Vietnam remain the defining period of his life, despite the subsequent years as both a senator and a cabinet secretary. “They’re going to make it all come back.”

For Mr. Obama, the trip to Vietnam offers an opportunity to help solidify not only his promised pivot of American policy toward Asia, but also to deepen economic and security ties with an increasingly important regional player.

But for the United States’ Vietnam War veterans, a presidential trip to the country where many of them lost their youth, innocence and some of their closest friends is weighted with powerful emotions and never-ending debates about that war’s consequences.

“There are still a lot of ghosts around,” Mr. Hagel, 69, said in an interview. “There is still a great deal of debate about Vietnam and what it meant for this country.”

“It still haunts us,” he added. “That terrible waste of lives, and the lessons we learned there, the terrible lessons that still hang over us.”

Mr. Hagel said that every decision he made as defense secretary and every piece of advice he gave Mr. Obama was informed by his experience in Vietnam. He now finds himself thinking more and more about the year he spent there in the 1960s. And he said he is certain to closely study the pictures from Mr. Obama’s trip: the lush green background, the people and their iconic conical hats.

One of the stumbling blocks between the two nations is the continuing belief by some in the United States that there may still be captive American soldiers held there, the kind of mythology that was fueled by 1980s movies like “Missing in Action” starring Chuck Norris and the “Rambo” series starring Sylvester Stallone.

A black P.O.W./M.I.A. flag still flies above the Capitol and state capitols around the country, and the military and many lawmakers choose to focus on the retrieval of the remains of dead service members as fulfilling those concerns. But some leaders of veterans organizations insisted in a meeting on Friday at the White House that Mr. Obama ask Vietnamese leaders whether there are living prisoners, according to Frank Francois III, the chief executive of Service Disabled Veteran Enterprises, who attended the meeting.

“One of the questions that has to be asked is whether there is anybody in jail or captivity or someone living in the area we need to know about,” Mr. Francois said.

For other veterans, Mr. Obama’s trip will serve as a welcome reminder to two generations of Americans who have come of age since the war’s end, illustrating that conflict’s importance to the United States. For these men, the ghosts of the war should not have been so easily laid to rest.

“Vietnam is a totally forgotten issue nowadays,” said Bobby Muller, a disabled veteran and antiwar activist whose life helped inspire the 1978 movie “Coming Home,” starring Jane Fonda. “To have gone through those times and have something as huge and powerful and affecting and tragic in our lifetimes wind up nonexistent in the consciousness of the country today is stunning.”

Mr. Muller lives in Washington in an apartment that is filled with books on the war, and his anger at two wartime leaders — President Richard M. Nixon and his closest adviser, Henry Kissinger — remains undiminished.

Mr. Obama is unlikely to focus as much on combat deaths during his trip as President Bill Clinton did when he visited in 2000.

Mr. Clinton took the two sons of a missing airman, Lt. Col. Lawrence G. Evert, to a rice paddy in a tiny town 17 miles northeast of Hanoi and searched, along with scores of villagers, for the remnants of an F-105D fighter-bomber that had crashed in 1967. Remarkably, they found Colonel Evert’s bones.

Mr. Obama is more likely to hail cooperation between the two countries to clean up the remnants of Agent Orange, one of the wartime issues still important to Vietnam. But as a president who came of age after the war ended, he is unlikely to be a symbol of healing of the psychological wounds that some veterans suffered upon returning home, when many of their countrymen disdained them for fighting there.

“That lack of a welcome home is still a national shame,” said Senator John McCain, a Vietnam veteran who, because he was a prisoner of war, did receive a hero’s welcome. “You had 18- or 19-year-old draftees who did their duties and were literally spat upon by their fellow citizenry when they returned.”

Mr. McCain said the country has learned that lesson, and service members and veterans are routinely celebrated at sporting events and public occasions nowadays. But for some veterans, Mr. Obama’s visit is likely to stir bitter memories of their rejection, he said.

Mr. McCain, a Republican of Arizona, said his efforts to help normalize relations between Vietnam and the United States were among the proudest accomplishments of his life, and he said he had been to Vietnam so often since the war’s end that “I’m recognized more in the streets of Hanoi than I am in Phoenix.”

Those efforts long ago helped Mr. McCain put the worst of the war and his captivity behind him, so he is unlikely to be moved by the photos of Mr. Obama’s visits, he said. Mr. McCain said he had other ways of stirring his wartime memories.

“To this day, I’ll get up real early sometimes and go down to the Vietnam Memorial just as the sun is coming up,” Mr. McCain said in an interview.

“It’s always a great experience for me to think and remember.”

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## Aqsuperman

"Everybody scream "Arm embargo"" :v 

On the side note, this is the first of some ships that will be buitl in VN for Venezuela

I guess no more "cant into screws and " again


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## Viet

The ships were ordered when the sun was shining, but now Venezuela is bankrupt, slipping into economic and political meltdown. I'm afraid the country won't take the ships they ordered. Similar to the case when our oil/gas company writes off the investment, withdrawing out the country some time ago.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> The ships were ordered when the sun was shining, but now Venezuela is bankrupt, slipping into economic and political meltdown. I'm afraid the country won't take the ships they ordered. Similar to the case when our oil/gas company writes off the investment, withdrawing out the country some time ago.



Guess who could use those ships if Venezuela does not take them?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Guess who could use those ships if Venezuela does not take them?


from the shape, I would guess the ship is produced by Song Thu shipyard. Stan patrol class 4207,
length 42,81 m, wide 7,11 m, propulsion 4200 bKW (5632 bhp)/ 1600 rpm), speed 25.5 knots.

either our Coast Guard takes them all, or we can try to sell elsewhere. how about the Phillipines?


















re-edit: no, I´m wrong. that is a different ship. maybe a variant of this HSV 6613 class, also produced by Song Thu.





















this particular ship is nice: 2,000 m³ Ice-Class Trailing Suction Hopper Dredger (TSHD), built by Song Thu, with first vessel for a russian customer. we need some of them to dregde the sea floor a bit, copying our chinese peaceful rise friends.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> from the shape, I would guess the ship is produced by Song Thu shipyard. Stan patrol class 4207,
> length 42,81 m, wide 7,11 m, propulsion 4200 bKW (5632 bhp)/ 1600 rpm), speed 25.5 knots.
> 
> either our Coast Guard takes them all, or we can try to sell elsewhere. how about the Phillipines?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> re-edit: no, I´m wrong. that is a different ship. maybe a variant of this HSV 6613 class, also produced by Song Thu.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> this particular ship is nice: 2,000 m³ Ice-Class Trailing Suction Hopper Dredger (TSHD), built by Song Thu, with first vessel for a russian customer. we need some of them to dregde the sea floor a bit, copying our chinese peaceful rise friends.



The coast guard can take them.


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## BoQ77

Actually, they used as SAR vessels long time ago

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## Viet

Carlosa, as benefit for all active and silent readers of this thread, I re-post here the link to your thread in Indian Defence Section 

https://defence.pk/threads/india-sends-stealth-warships-to-south-china-sea.431204/

we are to welcome the next guests to the SC Sea garden party in the Cam Ranh Bay:

_6,200-ton Shivalik-class guided-missile stealth frigates Satpura and Sahyadr
27,550-ton Deepak-class fleet tanker Shakti
1,350-ton Kora-class guided missile corvette Kirch

INS Satpura




_

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## Aqsuperman

I say we put an AK-176 and several NSV HMG on it if Venezuela cant take it. Could use a good patrol vessel. Or sell it to Philipine for a couple millions bucks :v But still, i highly doubt that we build a vessel without taking some safety deposit on hand first. 

Oh its actually a Damen SP5009 class , quite fast and manouverable. Ramming is nice too :v


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## Viet

the new Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc is like a man on a highspeed train. full speed. no brakes. hardly coming few days into office, he is much more active in the public relation than the last PM. first stop: Russia. next stop: Japan.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, as benefit for all active and silent readers of this thread, I re-post here the link to your thread in Indian Defence Section
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/india-sends-stealth-warships-to-south-china-sea.431204/
> 
> we are to welcome the next guests to the SC Sea garden party in the Cam Ranh Bay:
> 
> _6,200-ton Shivalik-class guided-missile stealth frigates Satpura and Sahyadr
> 27,550-ton Deepak-class fleet tanker Shakti
> 1,350-ton Kora-class guided missile corvette Kirch
> 
> INS Satpura
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



Good idea, thank you.



Viet said:


> the new Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc is like a man on a highspeed train. full speed. no brakes. hardly coming few days into office, he is much more active in the public relation than the last PM. first stop: Russia. next stop: Japan.



Yes, I like this new PM, I have a good feeling about him.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, I like this new PM, I have a good feeling about him.


Phuc is a big surprise. he worked as deputy under Dung, and hardly anyone took notice. But now as PM, he is on full speed. quite impressive for the first days in office.

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## BoQ77

I heard that Vietnam would combine two positions into one.
Nguyen Phu Trong would quit after 1 year, and Tran Dai Quang would be both President and General Secretary of Central Commitee of CPV.

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## Viet

*Vietnam urges Japan to take more active role in settling South China Sea row*

Kyodo
Last Modified: May 15, 2016


HANOI – Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc said Saturday that Japan, as a major regional power, should play a more active role in promoting the peaceful resolution of disputes involving the South China Sea.

In an interview in Hanoi with Japanese media, Phuc also said he expects Japan to make “effective” efforts to advance regional cooperation in a bid to ensure the freedom of navigation in and aviation over the contested waters.

China, which claims almost all of the South China Sea, has been aggressively pursuing its assertion, including through massive land-reclamation projects, despite objections by smaller rival claimants such as Vietnam and the Philippines.

Japan, which is not a claimant, is among countries that advocate freedom of navigation and overflight in the waters.

In his first interview with the foreign press since taking office in April, Phuc said he would visit Japan to attend in an outreach session of the Group of Seven summit on May 26-27 in Mie Prefecture.

The 61-year-old leader described bilateral ties with Japan as being in “the best-ever development stage” and expressed hope that the government would continue providing aid to improve Vietnam’s infrastructure and for boosted cooperation in areas such as climate change.

The two countries have been promoting defense cooperation, in an apparent attempt to keep China in check.

In April, two Japanese destroyers made a port call to Vietnam’s strategic Cam Ranh Bay facing the South China Sea, becoming the first Maritime Self-Defense Force vessels to visit the site.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Phuc is a big surprise. he worked as deputy under Dung, and hardly anyone took notice. But now as PM, he is on full speed. quite impressive for the first days in office.



Yes, he is. He seems to be clean and hard working, he apologized for many things, he met with business people wanting to hear what their problems are, he looks good so far, but I'd like to see some action against Formosa.

Toi chon ca (I choose fish).

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> I say we put an AK-176 and several NSV HMG on it if Venezuela cant take it. Could use a good patrol vessel. Or sell it to Philipine for a couple millions bucks :v But still, i highly doubt that we build a vessel without taking some safety deposit on hand first.
> 
> Oh its actually a Damen SP5009 class , quite fast and manouverable. Ramming is nice too :v


Okie my guess was totally wrong. I probably need a new pair of eye glasses. By the way, feel free and post rumours and gossip what you got from other Viet forums


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## Viet

*

*




Secretary of State Dean Rusk, President Lyndon B. Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara at a meeting in the White House, Feb. 9, 1968 (photo by Yoichi Okamoto from LBJ Library archive).


*LBJ, Vietnam and the Political Costs of Fighting a Hopeless War*


Michael A. Cohen Wednesday, May 18, 2016


In the fall of 1967, when then-President Lyndon Johnson looked out from his increasingly isolated perch at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, the signs of discontent and anger about the war in Vietnam were increasingly evident.

A majority of the country negatively viewed his handling of the war, and for the first time since the U.S. intervention in Vietnam had begun, Gallup found that a majority of Americans believed the war was a mistake. On Johnson’s political left, anger over the war had reached a boiling point. In October, 100,000 anti-war demonstrators marched on the Pentagon in the largest anti-war protest in American history.

On Capitol Hill, congressional support for the war was eroding, as both anti-war liberals and more-moderate Republican hawks began to raise greater concerns about Johnson’s strategy in Vietnam and his lack of candor on the war’s progress. The once supportive news media joined in as well, with the New York Times calling the war a stalemate and Time noting that the “only audible consensus” in the country was the one building against the war. 

Finally, Johnson began to hear from his own staff. In November, then-Defense Secretary Robert McNamara told the president in no uncertain terms that he did not believe it would still be possible for the U.S. “to accomplish [its] objectives” in Vietnam. ..

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> By the way, feel free and post rumours and gossip what you got from other Viet forums



I always did :v 

I guess whenever president of United States goes, several hundreds tons of equipments follown. Here come Marine One. "Rumour" is there maybe a V-22 visit :v


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## gtiger

Carlosa said:


> Yes, he is. He seems to be clean and hard working, he apologized for many things, he met with business people wanting to hear what their problems are, he looks good so far, but I'd like to see some action against Formosa.



Is it proven that it was Formosa's dumping that caused the fish deaths? It's prudent to wait until there are some evidences. Meting out haphazard penalties can create an anti-business environment that many foreign corporations fear.


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## Viet

Recent live fire exercise

















D20 152mm Howitzer. range 15.4km, 6 rounds a minute, can turn around 360 degree.

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## Carlosa

gtiger said:


> Is it proven that it was Formosa's dumping that caused the fish deaths? It's prudent to wait until there are some evidences. Meting out haphazard penalties can create an anti-business environment that many foreign corporations fear.



In Vietnam everybody knows that it was Formosa (you can say that it is an assumption) and it is believed that the government is covering up because they are trying to protect the investment which is actually very big.

The circumstantial evidence is not only that underwater pipe, but the fact that a fisherman diving next to the pipe saw yellow water coming from the pipe and the declarations of the Formosa spokesperson saying that Vietnam had to choose between fish and a modern steel industry. A number of people swimming near the pipe were diagnosed with copper poisoning. Also the fact that they had imported several hundred tons of chemicals to clean up the pipe and those chemicals are now not accounted for. Add to that the fact that Formosa has a worldwide record of creating environmental disasters and the conclusion is pretty clear.


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## Viet

A story of endless delays. Vietnam National Satellite Center announces the new expected launch of 4 earth observation satellites into orbit. appears to be not an easy task if one starts from zero.

NanoDragon, MicroDragon, launch in 2018
LOTUSat-1, LOTUSat-2, launch in 2019 and 2020

With the exception of LOTUSat-1, which will be made in Japan, others will be developed , assembled locally by Vietnamese engineers.

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## gtiger

Carlosa said:


> In Vietnam everybody knows that it was Formosa (you can say that it is an assumption) and it is believed that the government is covering up because they are trying to protect the investment which is actually very big.
> 
> The circumstantial evidence is not only that underwater pipe, but the fact that a fisherman diving next to the pipe saw yellow water coming from the pipe and the declarations of the Formosa spokesperson saying that Vietnam had to choose between fish and a modern steel industry. A number of people swimming near the pipe were diagnosed with copper poisoning. Also the fact that they had imported several hundred tons of chemicals to clean up the pipe and those chemicals are now not accounted for. Add to that the fact that Formosa has a worldwide record of creating environmental disasters and the conclusion is pretty clear.



Anecdotal stories are not evidences. While Formosa was fined a number of times in the past, what business that deals with industrial wastes has never been found to dump toxic matters. Take the case of the river water used in Flint, Michigan. If toxic waste was never dumped in the USA, how did the water get so polluted?

I'm not defending Formosa, and am in favor of lying heavy penalties if the company was found to dump toxic wastes into the sea even if the link to the fish deaths was never proven. However, careful investigation is necessary, instead of carrying a judgment simply to mollify the people.

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## William Hung

Everyone knows metal contamination/poisonings cannot come from a redtide or other natural phenomena, it is from human causes, e.g. industrial pollution...and everyone can see the elephant in the room.

It’s the fault of the local government in Ha Tinh and the local agencies there, they didn’t do their work, or got paid to look the other way.

The problem is that the central government did not respond properly and dealt with the people who were involved (the local authorities, etc.). This caused much bigger problem than it should have been. They should have responded quicker, be transparent and deal with the problem. The central government have now put themselves in a tough position and things will just get messier. Very sad because the new PM is going to lose credential even though he deserves better.

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## Carlosa

gtiger said:


> Anecdotal stories are not evidences. While Formosa was fined a number of times in the past, what business that deals with industrial wastes has never been found to dump toxic matters. Take the case of the river water used in Flint, Michigan. If toxic waste was never dumped in the USA, how did the water get so polluted?
> 
> I'm not defending Formosa, and am in favor of lying heavy penalties if the company was found to dump toxic wastes into the sea even if the link to the fish deaths was never proven. However, careful investigation is necessary, instead of carrying a judgment simply to mollify the people.



Of course, I agree with you, but politics are probably going to get in the way of finding the truth in this particular case.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Of course, I agree with you, but politics are probably going to get in the way of finding the truth in this particular case.



Can already sense what their plan is:

To penalize/prosecute Formosa, there need to be HARD evidences presented in compliance with local and international law. So just lengthen the investigation so that the evidence (e.g. pollutants) gets diluted and then finally conclude something like “we cannot find enough evidences to legally prosecute Formosa” (at that time, this statement would become true). But anyway, other damages has already been done. A silly and shortsighted mistake.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Can already sense what their plan is:
> 
> To penalize/prosecute Formosa, there need to be HARD evidences presented in compliance with local and international law. So just lengthen the investigation so that the evidence (e.g. pollutants) gets diluted and then finally conclude something like “we cannot find enough evidences to legally prosecute Formosa” (at that time, this statement would become true). But anyway, other damages has already been done. A silly and shortsighted mistake.



Well, Its obvious that that's what they have already done. They delayed taking samples for a number of days, then they decided to get help from foreign experts, but already too late, so its clear that the evidence is already dissolved. Maybe, just maybe, there might be evidence in the pipe itself, probably some residue of the chemicals.

They are going to raise the pipe, which is good, but are they going to actually check for residues in the pipe? Doubt it and it might be too late anyway by the time they get to raise the pipe, that will take some time.

A key factor in all of this that also speaks enough by itself is the fact that they got the local government in Ha Tinh to approve the installation of the pipe and to keep it secret, but the local government does not have authority to approve such installation, so the fact that they did so, and kept it secret shows that they got paid to do it.

The local government also did not do anything, absolutely anything during the aftermath of the episode so......... everything is very clear for those that have eyes to see and in Vietnam, people are already very experienced on these type of situations, so they can see very clearly what's going on.

I get the feeling that PM Phuc would like to say the truth, but I think a collective decision was taking by the Vietnamese government to cover up and he had to go along.


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## Viet

though it is not a topic that belongs to this thread, I don´t think it is wise to draw a quick conclusion that Formosa is the man with dirty hands in this particular case.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Is the Focus of a Fight Between China and the U.S.*
*http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...s-vietnam-seeks-assurances-from-obama?ref=yfp
*
Dwarfed by its Communist neighbor and still bearing the scars of a war with the U.S. four decades ago, Vietnam has become a focal point of the race between the two powers for influence in the western Pacific.

The tussle over Vietnam will be on display during a three-day visit next week by President Barack Obama. The third sitting U.S. president to travel to the country since the end of the war, Obama is expected to meet with the regime’s top leaders on Monday.

The trip to Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City is part of U.S. efforts to preserve clout as China expands its economic and military influence across Asia and argues with countries like Vietnam over territory in the South China Sea. For its part, Vietnam will be seeking the full lifting of a U.S. weapons sales ban, more aid to clean up a dioxin used as a defoliant during the war and unexploded ordnance, and reassurances a U.S.-led Pacific trade pact will make it through Congress.

“There is a new mood in Vietnam in how it looks at America,” said Nguyen Manh Hung, professor emeritus at George Mason University in Virginia. “It is less suspicious. His visit is very important to the Vietnamese for symbolic reasons.”

*TPP Doubts*
Obama’s visit comes 21 years after then-President Bill Clinton normalized ties with Vietnam and a few months after the U.S., Vietnam and ten other nations signed the Trans-Pacific Partnership, whose fate remains unclear amid criticism of the pact in the U.S. Senate and from presidential candidates. Vietnam, whose economy grew 6.68 percent last year, the most since 2008, seeks increased trade with the U.S. through the TPP to boost exports and reduce its economic dependence on China.

“When you look at Southeast Asia and what relationships where we’ve seen the most progress occur, Vietnam is really at the top of that list,” said Meredith Miller, a former official at the State Department’s Bureau of East Asia and Pacific Affairs. “What they can hope to hear from President Obama is that he’s doing absolutely everything in his power to see the agreement approved in a lame duck session before the next administration takes office.”

They may be Communist neighbors, but Vietnam and China have a long history of tensions. The countries fought a brief border war in 1979 and relations ruptured in the summer of 2014 after a Chinese oil rig was placed off Vietnam’s coast in the disputed Paracel islands. China, Vietnam’s largest trading partner, has angered Hanoi by flying planes on a new airstrip on islands it reclaimed in the disputed Spratly area.

*Hague Case*
The U.S., which is not a claimant in the South China Sea, has criticized China’s actions over territory. An arbitration court in the Hague is set to decide on a Philippine challenge to China’s claims to more than 80 percent of the South China Sea, probably by mid-year, even as China declines to take part in that case.

Vietnam says it welcomes the U.S. presence in the region, though it is careful not to be pulled too far into its orbit. It still wants ties with its powerful neighbor and to avoid outside interference in its political system, said Hung, who describes U.S.-Vietnam relations as a “hesitant tango.”

*Arms Embargo*
Vietnamese leaders have long pushed for a full lifting of the weapons ban and Defense Secretary Ash Carter said last month he supported eliminating limits on lethal weapons sales. The U.S. partially lifted its embargo in 2014 and has hosted two defense contractor symposiums in Hanoi, the most recent May 11-13, which was attended by companies such as Boeing Co. and Lockheed Martin Corp.

"We have not finalized a decision with regards to this issue,” Ben Rhodes, deputy national security adviser at the White House, said during a call with reporters. “We fully expect it will be a subject of discussion."

The U.S. is already providing Vietnam with six patrol boats, part of an $18 million military aid package. But conditions remain that could hinder efforts to sell weapons systems to Vietnam, whose human rights record has been criticized by members of Congress, said Carlyle Thayer, an emeritus professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy in Canberra. More than 100 dissidents are detained in Vietnam, according to Human Rights Watch.

*Dead Fish*
Obama’s visit coincides with a rise in dissent, and rare public protests, in the country. Vietnamese in recent weeks have taken to the streets in their thousands over the deaths of millions of fish near the central Vietnam-located Formosa Ha Tinh Steel Corp., a unit of Taiwan’s Formosa Plastics Corp. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc ordered a probe of how the steel plant received approval to pipe waste water directly into the sea.

Police used force to break up some demonstrations May 8 and will be under pressure to ensure there’s no violence when Obama is there, said Le Hong Hiep, a visiting fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore. The government also holds its once-in-five years National Assembly election for 500 seats on Sunday, and is “determined to prevent hostile and reactionary forces from damaging the election,” according to a statement on the parliament’s website Wednesday.

“The protesters will take this opportunity to publicize their cause and send a message to the U.S.,” Hiep said. “The Vietnamese government has different tactics they can use -- block Facebook, occupy public venues to block demonstrations.”

Still, the U.S. administration will be seeking ways to build ties without the overhang of tensions over human rights.

“The impression in Washington is that Vietnam takes a very strategic view toward the region,” said Aaron Connelly, a research fellow at the Lowy Institute for International Policy in Sydney. “Washington sees Hanoi as a capable partner. ”

Vietnam’s economy is growing rapidly but more reforms are needed, Wally Adeyemo, White House deputy national security adviser for international economics, said in an interview.

“Having the president going to Vietnam at this point gives him the ability to go there and celebrate the progress they’ve made but also push them to make additional progress in terms of opening up their economy to foreign direct investment, reforming their SOEs, providing for the education of their populace.”


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## Viet

*Good Morning Vietnam! Why the Russian Navy is Returning to Cam Ranh Bay*


Military & Intelligence
18:05 19.05.2016








Vietnamese Ambassador to Russia Nguyen Thanh Sean says that his country is not opposed to the Russian Navy returning to the base in Cam Ranh Bay, on the condition that its presence is not directed against any third country. Will Russia take the opportunity to regain a foothold in Southeast Asia? Svobodnaya Pressa journalist Anton Mardasov explores.

Speaking to the Russian news agency RIA Novosti earlier this week, Nguyen Thanh Sean explained that "Vietnam's policy is not to enter military alliances or to ally with any one state against another."

That being said, the ambassador added that "in this context, the use of the Cam Ranh Bay port for multilateral international cooperation for the provision of maritime transport, ship repair and the development of defense technology to ensure peace and stability in the region is an appropriate direction to take." 

During the interview, Nguyen Thanh Sean also said that Hanoi plans to continue defense cooperation with Russia, and added that Vietnam has always considered Russia to be "a close country, and a traditional partner," and that a "relationship of trust with Russia is a priority of Vietnamese foreign policy."


Analyzing the diplomat's remarks, Russian journalist Anton Mardasov recalled the origins of the Soviet/Russian base at Cam Ranh Bay, and the prospects for the Russian Navy's further use of the base in an article for the independent newspaper Svobodnaya Pressa.

"It's worth recalling," the columnist wrote, "that in 1979, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam provided the naval facilities at the Cam Ranh Bay port to the Soviet Union 25 years rent-free. The Soviet military rebuilt and expanded the base. Modestly called a 'Material-Technical Support Point', the facility was actually a powerful base for the 17th Operational Squadron of the Soviet Navy."

"At any one time, the facility simultaneously hosted 8-10 surface ships, 4-8 submarines, and supply vessels. The Cam Ranh base allowed the Pacific Fleet to control the southern Pacific, and the entire Indian Ocean. In 2001, the Russian government made the decision not to renew the lease with Vietnam and to evacuate the base ahead of schedule."

Now, Mardasov noted, questions over the base have once again gained relevance, and center around the question of Moscow's readiness to reconsider its maritime role in the Asia-Pacific region. "Judging by the agreements already reached at the highest level, Moscow is ready to do so. On November 12, 2013, the presidents of Russia and Vietnam signed an agreement on establishing a joint base for the maintenance and repair of submarines at Cam Ranh."


Soon after, "in February 2014, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that Russia would be expanding its military presence in the world: that there were negotiations on the deployment of military facilities in countries including Vietnam and Cuba, as well as 'active [negotiations] with the Seychelles, Singapore, Algeria, Cyprus, Venezuela, Nicaragua, and several other countries.' Shoigu noted that the area around the equator, and other regions of the world would be necessary to provide refueling for Russian long range aviation. In the spring of 2014, the airbase at Cam Ranh was used for the first time to carry out maintenance of Il-78 aircraft, the type used to refuel the Tu-95MS strategic bomber."


The latest development, Mardasov noted, occurred in November 2014, when "it was reported that during his visit to Russia, Vietnamese Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong signed an agreement on the simplification of the procedure for Russian ships to make port calls to Cam Ranh." From that moment, Russian vessels would only have to notify Vietnamese authorities ahead of time to enter the port.

This, the journalist recalled, was a significant step, not least because Vietnam factually became only the second country after Syria with which Russia agreed on this kind of simplified procedure for its ships.

Since then, "some military experts have suggested that further agreements would soon be reached, on the reestablishment of a logistics point for the Russian Navy…Experts said that this would be facilitated by the fact that Vietnam is Russia's traditional partner in the military sphere. In recent years, the two sides have signed contracts worth over $4.5 billion dollars."






_© Sputnik/ Igor Zarembo
A Project 636 Varshavyanka diesel-electric submarine built for the Vietnamese Navy at the shipyard in Svetly, Kaliningrad region_.


Russia has already delivered 4 of 6 promised Warszawianka-class diesel submarines equipped with the Klub-S (Kalibr) missile complex, and supplied Vietnam with the Bastion mobile coastal missile complex, along with the Gorizont geosynchronous comms satellites to go along with the system. Other Russian weapons systems ordered by Hanoi include the Molnya missile boats, Gepard 3.9 patrol frigates, and Su-30MK2 all-weather long-range strike fighters.

Asked about the prospects for further cooperation, Retired Col. Gen. Leonid Ivashov, the president of the Moscow-based Academy of Geopolitical Problems, who participated in the negotiations on Cam Ranh in 1998-2000, emphasized that the ambassador's words are "not just empty rhetoric."

"I believe that the Ambassador Nguyen Thanh Sean was not simply expressing his personal opinion. It's probable that some contacts between the two countries' militaries have already been made regarding Cam Ranh. In other words, he stated his country's official position, and it can be interpreted as an invitation which, in my opinion, we simply cannot refuse."


In fact, Ivashov noted, "There is no doubt that we must return to Cam Ranh. Firstly, this is one of the most comfortable and deepest bays not just on the shores of the South China Sea, but in the entire Asia-Pacific region. Secondly, the base not only has six quays for our ships, but also an airfield, built by the Soviet Union and which used to stage Soviet strategic and ASW aircraft, spy planes, and fielded an electronic tracking station."


"Today," the officer added, "we have once again begun more actively coming out onto the world's oceans, and have our own strategic interests to defend. In this regard, our military presence in the Asia-Pacific region is essential. The question is in the price."

"Under the [1979] agreement, until 2000, Russia, the successor of the USSR, did not pay anything for this base. When the Vietnamese side raised the question of a new rental agreement for the base, the Russian delegation, which I chaired, and which would later become led by then-Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev, came to an agreement on favorable terms for our presence."

At that time, Ivashov recalled, the Russian side offered the Vietnamese Navy two of the six quays, use of the airfield for joint deployment, as well as several ships which had been decommissioned from the Soviet Navy. "And today too we have something to offer the Vietnamese: we are continuing to deliver a wide array of military equipment to the country."


"Actually, we should thank the Vietnamese for Cam Ranh (and the Cubans for the Lourdes facility). After all, after we left, the US immediately tried to lease these former Soviet military-technical installations and to adopt them for their own needs. However, despite these efforts by the Pentagon, the Vietnamese have not given in on the bay, and are in effect waiting for our return."

At the same time, the officer said, a Russian presence at Cam Ranh would be beneficial for Vietnam for the strategic perspective: "it dramatically increases the country's security in relation to its closest neighbors, China and the United States. We should not forget that Vietnam, in spite of its limited land area, is a large country with a rapidly growing economy, and that it is catching up with Russia in terms of population."

Ultimately, Ivashov explained, "if an agreement is reached on our return, it's obvious that Cam Ranh will be a small military facility, compared to the forces that were based there during the Soviet period. But this too would be enough." In recent years, the officer emphasized, the naval base at Syria's Tartus has given Moscow a new understanding of the importance of a permanent regional presence, achieved via naval bases. "If we want to play an influential role in the world today, we need to strengthen our military presence on other continents," Ivashov concluded.

For his part, Alexander Khramchikhin, the deputy director of the Moscow-based Institute of Political and Military Analysis, told the newspaper that he too believes in the need to return to Cam Ranh.

Moreover, the analyst noted, "it's not even necessary to keep ships there on a regular bases, especially considering that we could not do this even if we wanted to – we simply do not have enough ships. But maintaining the necessary infrastructure or even simply using Vietnamese infrastructure would be enough to provide for a military presence. Incidentally, the US doesn't find it necessary to keep dozens of ships at its bases abroad. Sometimes they are completely empty; the important thing is that the base exists, that US personnel serve there, that aircraft are based there and that ships can safely enter the base for refueling, resupply and repair."

Finally, Andrei Frolov, editor-in-chief of the Export Vooruzheny military magazine, told Svobodnaya Pressa that on the one hand, the discussions "about Russia's imminent return to Cam Ranh is still only talk. On the other, it is a good opportunity to return our country the status of a great power, for relatively little money."

"Undoubtedly, military facilities in the Asia-Pacific region would simplify the tasks of strategic aviation, and of warships of the Pacific Fleet, which head out to the Indian Ocean to combat piracy and conduct exercises with the Indian Navy. Still, in my opinion, a presence at Cam Ranh is not a question of paramount importance for Russia. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details: in any case, renting the base will cost money, and it's one thing if the Vietnamese demand tens of millions of dollars, and another if we can come to an agreement via barter."

Ultimately, Frolov noted, "at the moment, it's enough for Russia to be able to freely enter Cam Ranh – an agreement on this is already in place. Over the last 10 years Russia has not faced any serious [military] tasks in this region, and the ships of the Pacific Fleet (usually in the configuration of a large anti-submarine ship, a tanker and a rescue vessel) already have the opportunity to enter Cam Ranh to refuel."



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160519/1039907645/russia-return-vietnam-military-base-analysis.html#ixzz49BPPenL0

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## Viet

we are close to a historic moment: 

after John McCain, the Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee (the legislative body which oversees the US Armed Forces) signals his Okay to total lifting arms embargo, the US government is in active discussion with the Congress.

"The time has come for a full lifting of this prohibition.

Vietnam should be allowed to purchase land and sea-based platforms".

_John McCain_

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## Viet

In the Army Headquarters

what the Chinese Ambassador to Vietnam Hong Xiaoyong wants to say to General Ngo Xuan Lich, just 3 days before the visit of Barack Obama?





...and by accident, the US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius on the same day same place?

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## Viet

Just landed at Hanoi Airport: Boeing C17 Globemaster with two 2 armored limousines for Barack Obama













For the safety of Barack Obama in Vietnam, the US Security Service in one of five meetings with Vietnam Central Command of Police Forces.











Probably divisions of policemen including special forces will be deployed.







one of the secret guests arriving Hanoi in preparation of the visit: CIA Director John O. Brennan







_Marine One: the helicopter that transports Barack Obama.
according the latest news, 1,600 Americans accompany the visit, more than the first US combat troop that landed in Danang some time ago _

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## Viet

to increase the firepower of T54/55 tank army, the Army reportedly seeks assistance of Russian company OmskTransMash. the Soviet era tanks would be equipped with laser guided 9M117 Bastion missiles.


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## Viet

*Vietnam wants the third pair of Gepards from Zelenodolsk*
09:00, 29.04.2016

Ak Bars holding might purchase Zelenodolsk Design Bureau this year





Photo: Roman Khasaev


Zelenodolsk Plant named after A.M. Gorky might continue its cooperation with Vietnam People's Navy. Deputy director general of the Zelenodolsk Plant Aleksander Karpov told about it to journalists after the ceremony of Gerard-3.9 launching. At the same time, as Realnoe Vremya found out, Ak Bars holding might have an addition very soon. It is a Design Bureau. And talks about it have been taking place for a long time. A correspondent of Realnoe Vremya knew some details of the coming deal.


*Gepard-3.9 strengthens the friendship between Vietnam and Russia*
A ceremonial launching of Gepard-3.9, which was designed for Vietnam People's Navy, took place in Zelenodolsk Plant named after A. M. Gorky on 27 April. Military and technical cooperation between the plant and the Asian country began as early as 2006 when a contract on construction of the first pair of Gepard-3.9 was signed. In 2011, official flag raising ceremonies of the Socialistic Republic of Vietnam.

The clients were satisfied with the quality of the first lot of frigates, and it was a reason for the further cooperation. Phạm Ngoc Minh, deputy head of the General Staff of People's Army of Vietnam and vice-Admiral, told it at the ceremony. It is remarkable that his speech was in Russian, not Vietnamese.

'I want to inform you that the ships 954 and 955 constantly serve as an armament of Vietnam People's Navy. These boats demonstrate good characteristics at sea,' the Vietnamese guest told.

The contract on the second pair of patrol frigates was signed in 2012. The first ship was ceremonially transferred to the water, but works will finish completely in one month.








The clients were satisfied with the quality of the first lot of frigates, and it was a reason for the further cooperation

The Prime Minister of the Republic of Tatarstan Ildar Khalikov said that the fact that Zelenodolsk Plant timely met its obligations is one of its feats. He also noted good relationships between these two countries have been maintained for tens of years.

'I want to note that always there has been cooperation, mutual support and united strategic positions between the Russian Federation and the Socialistic Republic of Vietnam. And today's event is another proof. It is no less important that you have produced two first ships and could prove that these ships guarantee a high security of the Socialistic Republic of Vietnam. It is what encouraged our partners to order new ships. It is the best proof of your labour, big work of designers and plant workers who create these ships,' Ildar Khalikov told.

The very ritual of the ship launching could not help but to follow a tradition of breaking a sacrificial bottle of champagne over the bow. As deputy director general of Zelenodolsk Plant Aleksander Karpov told later, the frigate will be transferred to the Black Sea Fleet where tests will be conducted, and then it will go to its final destination. As it has been mentioned above, the second ship will repeat this fate in a month. Antisubmarine weapon system is the main difference of the second lot of the boats.







Ildar Khalikov noted that always there has been cooperation, mutual support and united strategic positions between the Russian Federation and the Socialistic Republic of Vietnam


*Ukraine heard Vietnam*
During the construction of the ships, there were difficulties with turbines because the contract on their delivery was signed with Ukraine. Consequently, Zorya-Mashproyekt refused to supply the main gas-turbine aggregates to the Russian party. The deputy director general of Zelenodolsk Plant named after A.M. Gorky Aleksander Karpov told about it in detail.

'The Socialistic Republic of Vietnam was a party who told that these turbines were exactly for them, and Ukraine met them halfway.'

But the speaker told that the negotiations on the signing of agreements on the third pair of frigates for Vietnam are held.

'Now we were closing a certain payment stage: we launched the ship and finished pre-installation works. When they checked the state of affairs, Mr. Minh gave a high appraisal and told that these ships were better than the first pair. This is why they have a desire to sign an agreement on the third pair, in principle,' Karpov told.

According to him, the Vietnamese partners want to have ships that were Syria. They probably meant Serpukhov and Zeleny Dol equipped with Kalibr-NK long range missile launchers. The start of the construction of the ships depends on the date of the signing of the contract. The construction will take three years on average.









By Maria Gorozhaninova. Photo: Roman
Source : http://realnoevremya.com/today/396

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## Indos

William Hung said:


> Everyone knows metal contamination/poisonings cannot come from a redtide or other natural phenomena, it is from human causes, e.g. industrial pollution...and everyone can see the elephant in the room.
> 
> It’s the fault of the local government in Ha Tinh and the local agencies there, they didn’t do their work, or got paid to look the other way.
> 
> The problem is that the central government did not respond properly and dealt with the people who were involved (the local authorities, etc.). This caused much bigger problem than it should have been. They should have responded quicker, be transparent and deal with the problem. The central government have now put themselves in a tough position and things will just get messier. Very sad because the new PM is going to lose credential even though he deserves better.



Central government needs to intervene...

We cannot rely on local government only and you can see similar case in Jakarta Reclamation Project. Our central government does the intervening after our anti corruption body catch one of the company official (who do the reclamation) doing the bribe into Jakarta parliament member, the CEO is in custody now, a big company (and other companies CEO is under investigation, Jakarta Governor is also interrogated as witness) the media make the issue become snowball after the catch and even the media keep doing so until Today, they keep asking our universities experts that almost all of them make anti reclamation statements.

Local government and their parliament are easy to get bribed, it is also the case in Indonesia, our Anti Corruption body even find that entire local parliament members in one region get bribed by local government to pass certain law. (current news). We are still in USA Alcapone time, but thanks God we do have our own Elliot Ness (our anti corruption body) plus Media and NGO support. Our Jakarta fishermans is also fighting and united under one organisation, the leader is always contacted by our media, both print and electronic (TV).

Any government (even the corrupt one) doesnt want to see themselves loosing support from the people. It is the key. So it is the people and NGO who must pressure the central government, and the media power is crucial. But Vietnamese can use social media if it is not possible to rely on the print and electronics one to convey the intended message.

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## Carlosa

Indos said:


> Central government needs to intervene...
> 
> We cannot rely on local government only and you can see similar case in Jakarta Reclamation Project. Our central government does the intervening after our anti corruption body catch one of the company official (who do the reclamation) doing the bribe into Jakarta parliament member, the CEO is in custody now, a big company (and other companies CEO is under investigation, Jakarta Governor is also interrogated as witness) the media make the issue become snowball after the catch and even the media keep doing so until Today, they keep asking our universities experts that almost all of them make anti reclamation statements.
> 
> Local government and their parliament are easy to get bribed, it is also the case in Indonesia, our Anti Corruption body even find that entire local parliament members in one region get bribed by local government to pass certain law. (current news). We are still in USA Alcapone time, but thanks God we do have our own Elliot Ness (our anti corruption body) plus Media and NGO support. Our Jakarta fishermans is also fighting and united under one organisation, the leader is always contacted by our media, both print and electronic (TV).
> 
> Any government (even the corrupt one) doesnt want to see themselves loosing support from the people. It is the key. So it is the people and NGO who must pressure the central government, and the media power is crucial. But Vietnamese can use social media if it is not possible to rely on the print and electronics one to convey the intended message.



Well said, Al Capone time is right. The problem here is there is no Elliot Ness and the government controls the press. There were demonstrations last weekend, so the government shut down facebook during the weekend. NGOs have limited power here, anyone dealing with them in anti gov issues get a visit from the police.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> Just landed at Hanoi Airport: Boeing C17 Globemaster with two 2 armored limousines for Barack Obama
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the safety of Barack Obama in Vietnam, the US Security Service in one of five meetings with Vietnam Central Command of Police Forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably divisions of policemen including special forces will be deployed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one of the secret guests arriving Hanoi in preparation of the visit: CIA Director John O. Brennan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Marine One: the helicopter that transports Barack Obama.
> according the latest news, 1,600 Americans accompany the visit, more than the first US combat troop that landed in Danang some time ago _



LOL, this is more exciting to watch than the Chinese V-Day Parade. Air force one could take the entire fleet of Chinese navy. LOL!!



Indos said:


> Central government needs to intervene...
> 
> We cannot rely on local government only and you can see similar case in Jakarta Reclamation Project. Our central government does the intervening after our anti corruption body catch one of the company official (who do the reclamation) doing the bribe into Jakarta parliament member, the CEO is in custody now, a big company (and other companies CEO is under investigation, Jakarta Governor is also interrogated as witness) the media make the issue become snowball after the catch and even the media keep doing so until Today, they keep asking our universities experts that almost all of them make anti reclamation statements.
> 
> Local government and their parliament are easy to get bribed, it is also the case in Indonesia, our Anti Corruption body even find that entire local parliament members in one region get bribed by local government to pass certain law. (current news). We are still in USA Alcapone time, but thanks God we do have our own Elliot Ness (our anti corruption body) plus Media and NGO support. Our Jakarta fishermans is also fighting and united under one organisation, the leader is always contacted by our media, both print and electronic (TV).
> 
> Any government (even the corrupt one) doesnt want to see themselves loosing support from the people. It is the key. So it is the people and NGO who must pressure the central government, and the media power is crucial. But Vietnamese can use social media if it is not possible to rely on the print and electronics one to convey the intended message.



Those "media" people in Vietnam used to get arrested and jailed before. Vietnam is so f.ked up before because the government wants to hide everything from the public. Corruption to the core.

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## Aqsuperman

The first capable fighter of VPAF. Not Russia, not China, not Czechslovakia..........but an American ones, a T-28 Trojan


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## Viet

Vietnam domestic politics is complex. So foreign politics. It is a complicated matter. One should read Vietnam contemporary history to understand from where we came. Also, one should try to understand why the past, current and future actors did, do and will do. Living in a tense environment as we do. I believe with increasing prosperity we will see Vietnam to follow the path of South Korea and Taiwan.

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## Viet

*PressTV*

*US to place military equipment in Vietnam: US officials*
Sat May 21, 2016 5:23AM






US Marines landing in Da Nang in 1965 at the start of the American military intervention in Vietnam.


The US is in talks with Vietnam to place military equipment in the country for the first time since the end of the Vietnam War just over forty years ago, according to US officials.

The US and Vietnamese governments have been discussing the use of Da Nang as a site to store military equipment that could purportedly be used to respond to natural disasters in the region.

The coastal city, perched strategically on the South China Sea, is where US combat forces first arrived in Vietnam in 1965.

The talks about pre-positioning equipment have more symbolic significance. The two former enemies share anxiety about a rising China, making them partners over the past two decades.

Beijing, however, accuses Washington of meddling in the regional issues and deliberately stirring up tensions in the South China Sea.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, despite partial counterclaims by Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines. China is also locked in disputes with Japan and South Korea over the East China Sea.

US President Barack Obama will arrive in Hanoi on Sunday for a three-day visit that will anoint Vietnam, a one-party communist state, as an essential part of his “pivot” towards Asia.

The Obama administration had hoped to announce the end of an embargo on selling offensive weapons to Vietnam, which would be another symbolic step in normalizing relations, before Obama’s visit.

But the cautious nature of the military engagements between Washington and Hanoi, which include limits on the number of port visits and a stress on humanitarian missions, underlines the sensitivities that surround any US involvement in Vietnam.

The US carried out an eight-year military intervention in the country from 1965-73.

While Vietnam wants to work with the US to challenge China’s expansive territorial claims on the South China Sea, it is concerned about irritating its powerful neighbor, a fellow Communist-run state with which Vietnam shares a complex set of security, trade and political ties.

Hanoi has a complicated past with Beijing, which controlled much of northern Vietnam for centuries.

“As a Communist party, the US and its values pose an existential threat to [Vietnam’s] regime — but China poses an existential threat to the future of Vietnam as a country,” says Marvin Ott, a Southeast Asia expert at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies in Washington.

“They have 2000 years of dealing with a China problem and they are better at managing it than anyone else,” Ott said.

Across Southeast Asia, concerns about China and its growing military have created an opportunity for the US to improve relationships.

In recent years, American aircraft and ships have returned to the Philippines for the first time in more than two decades, while US Marines have started training in Australia and new guidelines have allowed for closer cooperation with Japan.

Vietnam has also requested US assistance, albeit at a slower pace.

“Vietnam is going to be very cautious about not crossing red lines with China and the United States is going to respect that,” said Patrick Cronin, Asia director at the Center for a New American Security. “We are not looking for any new bases.”

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## Viet

*Vietnam new Advanced anti-ship missile Kh-35 Uran-UV*

First picutures of the new antiship missile

Code name X-35
Speed: 1,100km/h
Farthest shooting range: 300km
Nearest shooting range: 5km
Ceiling above sea level: 5-10m
Ceiling above sea level approaching the target (final stage): 3-5m
Body length: 3.75m
300 kg warhead
can resist high intensity interference level of enemy firepower, operate in any weather conditions.

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## Carlosa

*The Case for Lifting the US Vietnam Arms Embargo*
*http://thediplomat.com/2016/05/the-case-for-lifting-the-us-vietnam-arms-embargo/
*
Ahead of U.S. President Barack Obama’s visit to Vietnam later this week, U.S. officials – at least publicly – say they have yet to determine whether it is time to fully lift the arms embargo to Vietnam that was eased back in 2014. Though a full lifting of the ban is an issue of when rather than if in the context of the burgeoning U.S.-Vietnam comprehensive partnership, there is a strong case for doing away with it sooner rather than later.

Over the past few years, Vietnam has emerged as a country increasingly central to U.S. strategy in the Asia-Pacific in spite of the lingering challenges inherent in the two-decade old diplomatic relationship. Economically, for instance, Hanoi is one of just four Southeast Asian countries that is party to the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and is an important partner in ongoing U.S. regional initiatives as well such as the Lower Mekong Initiative (LMI). And on defense, Vietnam, a frontline state in the South China Sea disputes, has not only been a member of key U.S. initiatives like the Southeast Asia Maritime Security Initiative (MSI), but has worked with Washington to enhance its contributions to global security in fields like peacekeeping (See: “America’s New Maritime Security Initiative for Southeast Asia”).

Despite this , a ban on lethal defense articles – left on the books during Bill Clinton’s presidency even as normalization began – still remains largely in place, despite an easing back in October 2014. Even though speculation has been rife that the Obama administration may finally fully lift it, on Thursday Ben Rhodes, one of the president’s closest advisers, told reporters that no decision had been made, and that Obama would outline how the administration intends to approach the embargo in meetings with Vietnamese officials during the trip (See: “Exclusive: US May Lift Vietnam Arms Embargo for Obama Visit”).

Which ever way the administration chooses to proceed, it is abundantly clear that full lifting of the embargo would advance that relationship both symbolically and substantively. Symbolically, as Vietnamese officials have repeatedly pointed out, a lifting would be a clear indication that relations have been fully normalized. And if it is done before Obama leaves office, it would be in line with the narrative that the administration has embraced in the U.S.-Vietnam relationship: putting aside the past and looking toward the future– whether it be through addressing war legacy issues or opening a new Fulbright University in Vietnam.

More broadly, it would also be yet another powerful case within the Obama administration’s foreign policy that advances can be made even in previously challenging relationships. As Rhodes put it at an event at the Center for New American Security in Washington, D.C. earlier this week, a big part of the Obama administration’s foreign policy has been defined by pursuing previously untapped opportunities to make progress in important relationships – as can be seen in the cases of the Iran nuclear deal, the normalization of ties with Cuba, and greater engagement Myanmar. Though relations with Vietnam were already normalized back in 1995, the lifting of the embargo would nonetheless be the realization of one such untapped opportunity.

Substantively, the embargo would pave the way for eventual U.S. arms sales to Vietnam. Though Vietnam is already scheduled to receive U.S.-made Metal Shark patrol boats soon, Hanoi would be able to buy other maritime and aerial platforms that it could use for its defense. Arms sales are not just a potential economic boost for U.S. companies but a strategic opportunity for Washington to more fully participate in Vietnamese capacity-building, which in turn allows Hanoi to contribute more to global security. Senator John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam and a longtime proponent of closer ties, summed it up best when he said in a statement Wednesday that “we cannot ask our partners to contribute more while continuing to take steps to directly limit the level of their contribution.”

Lifting the ban would also strengthen Washington’s bargaining position to seek further boosts in the bilateral defense relationship from Hanoi. Given the significance of the move from the U.S. side, there would be an even greater incentive for Vietnam to then consider proposals Washington has made to advance the defense relationship even further which had previously been turned down, including on naval engagements and defense trade as part of the new joint vision statement on defense relations signed by both sides last year during U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter’s visit to the country (See: “US, Vietnam Deepen Defense Ties”).

To be clear, major defense contracts and transfers could take some time because they are contingent on other factors, including growing Vietnam’s familiarization with U.S. procurement procedures relative to its other traditional defense partners like Russia. And it would be unrealistic to expect some kind of dramatic altering of Vietnam’s strategic orientation towards Washington given Hanoi’s omnidirectional foreign policy as well as its own concerns about angering neighboring China. As the administration has rightly internalized, this is not part of some strategy to contain China, but one of a series of steps towards helping nurture a strong and secure Vietnam capable of defending itself and playing a greater role in the region and world. As deals are eventually realized, platforms, when combined with other U.S. capacity-building efforts like MSI, can help boost interoperability and generate other knock-on effects in U.S.-Vietnam defense relations.

The chief argument advanced by opponents of lifting the arms embargo is that a full lifting would fly in the face of lingering concerns about Vietnam’s human rights record. To be sure, this ought to be a factor in U.S. calculations about the pace at which the embargo is lifted, as it has been for years and will continue to be. Rights groups have also rightly pointed to worrying examples of violations in recent weeks ahead of parliamentary elections on May 22, including mistreatment of protesters following an environmental disaster involving contaminated fish. More broadly, the calibration of U.S. ideals and interests has significance not only for the U.S.-Vietnam relationship, but the U.S. rights agenda in the region more generally.

But it is also true that advances in this domain will always be incremental because of the nature of Vietnam’s system, and that pushing Hanoi too hard and too unfairly on the issue will only serve to exacerbate lingering mistrust, rather than ameliorate it. Just like the United States has its issues with rights in Vietnam, Hanoi also has its own concerns – however misplaced – about U.S. attempts to overthrow its socialist regime through “peaceful evolution.” Any U.S. evaluation of Vietnam’s human rights record must be fair and realistic in acknowledging both the progress Hanoi has made thus far as well as the challenges that remain in the context of the country’s domestic political environment. This is not capitulation but compromise – a necessary ingredient in any partnership.

Furthermore, even if the administration decides to lift the ban, there are still ways for the United States to exert leverage on Vietnam with respect to legitimate U.S. rights concerns. For instance, a point often missed in this polarized debate is that even if the ban is fully lifted, as with a partial lifting, there would need to be a process initiated for any potential arms transfers for it to actually take off, which requires congressional approval under U.S. law. That gives the United States the ability to still tie rights improvements to particular sales. Top U.S. Asia diplomat Daniel Russel alluded to that point Wednesday when he told reporters that even the partial lifting had still not resulted in an “opening of floodgates” in terms of new arms sales. Other sources of leverage also exist beyond the embargo, with the most obvious one being the TPP, which has human rights implications as well since Vietnam has already had to make several reforms in fields like labor to meet the standards of the agreement.

Some – including those supportive of the eventual lifting of the ban –have argued that it may be too soon to do so now. They point to the fact that there is significant opposition in pockets of Congress on human rights grounds, as evidenced by comments in recent hearings as well as letters sent by lawmakers ahead of the visit. Though a full lift would ultimately be a State Department policy decision following interagency discussions and consultations with Congress, the administration may have its own strategic reasons for not wanting to push this now. With some lawmakers already opposed to Vietnam being part of TPP for various reasons, the administration may choose to wait until after the lame-duck session of Congress when a crucial TPP vote is held before announcing a full lift, Michael Green, former top White House adviser and longtime Asia expert, said at a briefing Tuesday.

Though there are legitimate considerations to hold off on a full lift, there is a case to be made for urgency too – apart, of course, from the significance of the move being made during a presidential visit to Vietnam, which ought not to be understated. If done soon, the symbolic and substantive benefits of the lifting would occur within the context of an upcoming decision on the much-awaited Philippine South China Sea case against China at the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA), expected sometime in the next few months (See: “Does the Philippines’ South China Sea Case Against China Really Matter?”). It would send a powerful message to China that with its destabilizing acts – including positioning an oil rig in Vietnam’s waters in 2014 – Beijing is causing countries to move closer to the United States and effectively containing itself.

Lifting the ban now would also give the Obama administration more time to follow up on other potential items in the U.S.-Vietnam defense relationship before the transition to the next American president begins in January 2017. As I have stressed before, it is imperative that Obama and his team – which have been strongly committed to Southeast Asia – complete as much of their intended subregional agenda as possible before leaving office. Apart from Hillary Clinton, there is no guarantee that any of the other U.S. presidential candidates still standing would necessarily demonstrate the same regard for Southeast Asia. Indeed, with the next U.S. president likely to confront a more tumultuous and fragmented world – with a dangerous Islamic State, simmering Middle East, resurgent Russia, frail Europe and weak global economy – there may be _relatively_ less of a focus on Southeast Asian countries like Vietnam, even if the bilateral relationship continues to advance (See: “Why the US-ASEAN Sunnylands Summit Matters”).

Of course, there are also ways to split the difference on this question. The administration may decide, for instance, to further ease the ban but not lift it fully, or perhaps announce some deals under the partial lifting now and leave any policy change for later. What is undisputable, though, is that even with a full lifting, Washington can both realize the symbolic and substantive benefits as well as address the legitimate concerns shared by some. And as a result, there is little reason for this relic to remain in place for much longer as both sides look to the future.

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## Viet

Barack Obama is seen leaving the Marine One to board the Air Force One. I read the aircraft will make two stops in Alaska and Japan before heading to Hanoi.


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## Viet

Hanoi, May 22

Noibai International Airport
Flower for the special guest from Washington

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## Carlosa

According to Soha.vn, a chinese website, Guancha.cn reported that Russia has refused to sell anti-aircraft missile system S-400 to Vietnam due to great pressure from an extremely important partner.

@Aqsuperman Do you have any info on this?


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## Viet

Welcome to Vietnam!

Interesting is, the Air Force One arrives Vietnam earlier than previously announced. Barack Obama will sleep at JW Marriott Hotel.

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## Viet

Barack Obama and the other guests will sleep at the 5 star JW Marriott Hotel Hanoi, I just check the facilities of the hotel. not too bad, I believe. the room rate is incredibly much cheaper than Germany.

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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> According to Soha.vn, a chinese website, Guancha.cn reported that Russia has refused to sell anti-aircraft missile system S-400 to Vietnam due to great pressure from an extremely important partner.
> 
> @Aqsuperman Do you have any info on this?



I highly doubt the authenticity of those sources. I think an April Fool joke about T-90 "SV" tank from VN manage to come to a China page and somehow became real. Same can be said about Su-35 and various arms deals. Beside, i quite sure neither VN nor China will have S-400 in the foreseeable future, atleast not the variant that surpass the S-300 capabilities. Russia has some first hand experience about China ability at copying, especially the Su-27 - J-11 but cant just sell us the S-400 due to various balancing issue. Until the system got into service then we can be sure who got what

On the side note, check out this guy. A KZKT Heavy Tractor, the company itself go bankupt in 2011 so the vehicle may have a considerable cheaper price. Still, what is it purpose ? Surely not for our tank since MAZ-357 do this job quite good already. What is you guys guess ?

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> According to Soha.vn, a chinese website, Guancha.cn reported that Russia has refused to sell anti-aircraft missile system S-400 to Vietnam due to great pressure from an extremely important partner.
> 
> @Aqsuperman Do you have any info on this?


Not only S-400. the chinese website says, back then in August 2014 a Vietnam Army delegation together with Vietnam Ambassador to Russia paid a visit to Russia deputy defence minister Anton Karimov, asking for S-400 missile, Su-35 aircraft and Lada class submarines (AIP project 677). However, Russia refused to sell.

maybe a coincidence: in November 2014, the Chinese agreed to a $400 billion gas deal with Russia.

if you are Russia, how would you decide: a $5 billion deal with Vietnam or $400 billion contract with China?

a hard choice, isn´t it?

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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> According to Soha.vn, a chinese website, Guancha.cn reported that Russia has refused to sell anti-aircraft missile system S-400 to Vietnam due to great pressure from an extremely important partner.
> 
> @Aqsuperman Do you have any info on this?



just don't believe to such sources.

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## Carlosa

*U.S. to completely lift Vietnam lethal arms embargo*




May 23, 2016
HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang said on Monday the United States had decided to "completely lift" its embargo on trade in lethal arms with the Southeast Asian country.

"Vietnam very much appreciates the U.S. decision to completely lift the ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam, which is the clear proof that both countries have completely normalized relation," Quang said through a translator at a joint news conference with U.S. President Barack Obama.

Obama said the United States was fully lifting the ban but the sale of arms would depend on Vietnam's human rights commitments.

(Writing by John Chalmers; Editing by Robert Birsel)

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> just don't believe to such sources.


you mean it is a wrong rumour and Russia would ignore any chinese objections if we request those advanced weaponry?



Carlosa said:


> *U.S. to completely lift Vietnam lethal arms embargo*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> May 23, 2016
> HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang said on Monday the United States had decided to "completely lift" its embargo on trade in lethal arms with the Southeast Asian country.
> 
> "Vietnam very much appreciates the U.S. decision to completely lift the ban on lethal weapon sales to Vietnam, which is the clear proof that both countries have completely normalized relation," Quang said through a translator at a joint news conference with U.S. President Barack Obama.
> 
> Obama said the United States was fully lifting the ban but the sale of arms would depend on Vietnam's human rights commitments.
> 
> (Writing by John Chalmers; Editing by Robert Birsel)


WOW a history decision!

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> WOW a history decision!



*Obama Looks To Bolster Vietnam By Lifting Arms Export Embargo*
U.S. President Barack Obama on Monday lifted a decades-old arms export embargo for Vietnam during his first visit to the communist country, looking to bolster a government seen as a crucial, though flawed partner even as he pushes for better human rights from the one-party state.

Obama announced the full removal of the embargo at a news conference, saying the move was intended to step toward normalizing relations with the former war enemy and to eliminate a "lingering vestige of the Cold War."

"At this stage both sides have developed a level of trust and cooperation," Obama said, adding that he expected deepening cooperation between the two nation's militaries.

Obama is seeking to strike this balance with Vietnam amid Chinese efforts to strengthen claims to disputed territory in the South China Sea, one of the world's most important waterways.

Lifting the arms embargo will be a psychological boost for Vietnam's leaders as they look to counter an increasingly aggressive China, but there may not be a big jump in sales. Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang thanked Obama for lifting the embargo.

U.S. lawmakers and activists had urged the president to press the communist leadership for greater freedoms before granting it. Vietnam holds about 100 political prisoners and there have been more detentions this year.

The United States partially lifted the embargo in 2014, but Vietnam wanted full access as it tries to deal with China's assertive land reclamation and military construction in nearby seas.

Vietnam has not bought anything, but removing the remaining restrictions shows relations are fully normalized and opens the way to deeper security cooperation.

After three days in Vietnam, Obama heads to Japan for an international summit and a visit to Hiroshima, where he will be the first sitting president to visit the site of the first atomic bomb attack.

He arrived in Hanoi, the capital, late Sunday, making him the third sitting president to visit the country since the end of the war. Four decades after the fall of Saigon, now called Ho Chi Minh City, and two decades after President Bill Clinton restored relations with the nation, Obama is eager to upgrade relations with an emerging power whose rapidly expanding middle class beckons as a promising market for U.S. goods and an offset to China's growing strength.

Obama was greeted Monday by Quang at the Presidential Palace. Obama congratulated Vietnam for making "extraordinary progress." He said he hopes the visit will show a continued interest in strengthening ties in the years to come.

Obama will make the case for stronger commercial and security ties, including approval of the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Trade agreement that is stalled in Congress and facing strong opposition from the 2016 presidential candidates.

The United States is eager to boost trade with a fast-growing middle class in Vietnam that is expected to double by 2020. That would mean knocking down auto, food and machine tariffs to get more U.S. products into Vietnam.

In Japan, Obama will attend a summit of the Group of Seven industrialized nations, where the uncertain global economy will be a top concern. They'll also grapple with a full array of world challenges, including the fight against the Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria and the refugee crisis in Europe.

Obama will finish his trip in Hiroshima, where the U.S. dropped the atomic bomb that killed 140,000 people, ushering in the nuclear age seven decades ago. Another bomb killed 70,000 in Nagasaki three days later.

It will be a moment to reflect on the devastating costs of war and to try to give new impetus to the call for a nuclear-free world that Obama issued seven years ago in his first year as president. He has faced criticism, however, that his mere presence at the site of the a-bomb explosion could be viewed as apology for an act that many Americans see as justified.

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## Viet

VietJet buys 100 Boeing Aircraft for $11.3 billion. plus a $3.04-billion deal for engines made by Pratt & Whitney and other services. in all: a $15 billion deal for US companies. not too bad for a country as Vietnam, with the GDP of $171 billion (2013).

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-vietjet-boeing-idUSKCN0YE0C1

*





*

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## Viet

Hanoi, May 23

Official Greeting to the President of a Superpower: Barack Obama

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## Viet

_I believe, never ever since the end of Vietnam war, we haven´t ever seen such a mass concentration of planes of the US Air Forces. Boeing C17 transport aircraft and V-22 Osprey transport tons of equipment and personnel.







_

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> you mean it is a wrong rumour and Russia would ignore any chinese objections if we request those advanced weaponry?



Of course, actually, Vietnam is considered as a strategic partner in the region.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> _I believe, never ever since the end of Vietnam war, we haven´t ever seen such a mass concentration of planes of the US Air Forces. Boeing C17 transport aircraft and V-22 Osprey transport tons of equipment and personnel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



lol, you know what, Obama is definitely in Vietnam for a Super Vacation.



Carlosa said:


> *Obama Looks To Bolster Vietnam By Lifting Arms Export Embargo*
> U.S. President Barack Obama on Monday lifted a decades-old arms export embargo for Vietnam during his first visit to the communist country, looking to bolster a government seen as a crucial, though flawed partner even as he pushes for better human rights from the one-party state.
> 
> Obama announced the full removal of the embargo at a news conference, saying the move was intended to step toward normalizing relations with the former war enemy and to eliminate a "lingering vestige of the Cold War."
> 
> "At this stage both sides have developed a level of trust and cooperation," Obama said, adding that he expected deepening cooperation between the two nation's militaries.
> 
> Obama is seeking to strike this balance with Vietnam amid Chinese efforts to strengthen claims to disputed territory in the South China Sea, one of the world's most important waterways.
> 
> Lifting the arms embargo will be a psychological boost for Vietnam's leaders as they look to counter an increasingly aggressive China, but there may not be a big jump in sales. Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang thanked Obama for lifting the embargo.
> 
> U.S. lawmakers and activists had urged the president to press the communist leadership for greater freedoms before granting it. Vietnam holds about 100 political prisoners and there have been more detentions this year.
> 
> The United States partially lifted the embargo in 2014, but Vietnam wanted full access as it tries to deal with China's assertive land reclamation and military construction in nearby seas.
> 
> Vietnam has not bought anything, but removing the remaining restrictions shows relations are fully normalized and opens the way to deeper security cooperation.
> 
> After three days in Vietnam, Obama heads to Japan for an international summit and a visit to Hiroshima, where he will be the first sitting president to visit the site of the first atomic bomb attack.
> 
> He arrived in Hanoi, the capital, late Sunday, making him the third sitting president to visit the country since the end of the war. Four decades after the fall of Saigon, now called Ho Chi Minh City, and two decades after President Bill Clinton restored relations with the nation, Obama is eager to upgrade relations with an emerging power whose rapidly expanding middle class beckons as a promising market for U.S. goods and an offset to China's growing strength.
> 
> Obama was greeted Monday by Quang at the Presidential Palace. Obama congratulated Vietnam for making "extraordinary progress." He said he hopes the visit will show a continued interest in strengthening ties in the years to come.
> 
> Obama will make the case for stronger commercial and security ties, including approval of the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Trade agreement that is stalled in Congress and facing strong opposition from the 2016 presidential candidates.
> 
> The United States is eager to boost trade with a fast-growing middle class in Vietnam that is expected to double by 2020. That would mean knocking down auto, food and machine tariffs to get more U.S. products into Vietnam.
> 
> In Japan, Obama will attend a summit of the Group of Seven industrialized nations, where the uncertain global economy will be a top concern. They'll also grapple with a full array of world challenges, including the fight against the Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria and the refugee crisis in Europe.
> 
> Obama will finish his trip in Hiroshima, where the U.S. dropped the atomic bomb that killed 140,000 people, ushering in the nuclear age seven decades ago. Another bomb killed 70,000 in Nagasaki three days later.
> 
> It will be a moment to reflect on the devastating costs of war and to try to give new impetus to the call for a nuclear-free world that Obama issued seven years ago in his first year as president. He has faced criticism, however, that his mere presence at the site of the a-bomb explosion could be viewed as apology for an act that many Americans see as justified.



US also promised to clean up Agent Orange left over during the VN war in Da Nang and another location. US is reducing tariffs for Vietnam. Obama said there is more than half a million US citizens touring Vietnam every year. US export is up by 150% to Vietnam and more in the coming future. However, Obama has kept his level of communication to minimal regarding the lift in weapon sales to Vietnam. US also want to help Vietnam with Green technology which include wind power, solar power and nuclear energy.

Oh and Obama even said that he would love to come back to visit Vietnam again with his family when he is done as the President of the US. lol

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## Viet

Barack Obama walks with Parliament spokeswomen Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan. the Lady in blue dress is the strategic head of the US government: National security adviser Susan Rice. so left and right of Obama are the two most powerful women in America and Vietnam.

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## Viet

from the news: Vietnam gives the go-ahead for US Peace Corps to operate in Vietnam, and will send later this week a wish list of "maritime equipment" to the US department of defence for procurement. maritime equipment can be anything from plane, warship, aircraft, satellite, missile to submarine.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/05/22/world/asia/ap-us-peace-corps-vietnam.html?_r=0











the US is asking for easy access to Vietnam maritime ports (likely with the same privileges as to the Russians). the decision will probably be made during the meeting between Obama and Trong.

Cam Bay bay could soon welcome the US Pacific Fleet.

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## Aqsuperman

So the day has arrived when the relationship betwwen VN and US is fully restored.........Stil, i bet nothing significant will come anytime soon. After the US election things may even go more unpredictable. But i do hope some small upgrade and maintance for our US-made weaponry though. I mean who can do it better than the ones that made them right ? :v Some extra transport plane and maritine patrol will also do it nicely


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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> Of course, actually, Vietnam is considered as a strategic partner in the region.



I hope you are right.

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## Viet

*Official: US lifting Vietnam arms embargo will not affect Russia’s arms exports*
Military & Defense
May 23, 12:34 UTC+3 MOSCOW







© ITAR-TASS/Yuri Smityuk


MOSCOW, May 23. /TASS/. The US lifting the embargo on arms sales to Vietnam will not affect the supplies of Russian armaments to the country, deputy head of Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) Anatoly Punchuk said on Monday.

US President Barack Obama announced that Washington has decided to "completely lift" its embargo on trade in lethal arms with Vietnam on Monday during his historic visit to the Southeast Asian country. The decades-old embargo was already eased in 2014.

"Our relations with Vietnam are of a strategic character and their further development will depend on the leadership of Vietnam. I think that this (lifting embargo) will not affect the export of Russian weapons," Punchuk said.

Vietnam is one of the biggest importers of Russian weapons. The country buys a broad range of Russian armaments, including Gepard-3.9 frigates and submarines of Project 636 (known as Varshavyanka). Vietnam also builds Molnia-class missile boats (project 12418) under the Russian license.



More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/877492

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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> According to Soha.vn, a chinese website, Guancha.cn reported that Russia has refused to sell anti-aircraft missile system S-400 to Vietnam due to great pressure from an extremely important partner.
> 
> @Aqsuperman Do you have any info on this?


chinese source is just craft, never mind about it, i just some thing to get in your head only, not real

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## gtiger

Viet said:


> *Official: US lifting Vietnam arms embargo will not affect Russia’s arms exports*



The lifting of the arms embargo will just mean that the Russians have to compete for new arms purchases, as the Vietnamese Army continues to diversify its arsenals. However because much of the Vietnamese weapon platforms have been Russian, the demand for Russian weapons will continue. It will still be a long shot for Vietnam to obtain any state-of-the-art US weapons due to political and financial reasons.

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## Viet

*Vietnam's defense spending is $5 billion and rising fast*

May 23
CNN HONG KONG



Vietnam has increased its military spending dramatically in recent years amid a series of territorial disputes with China.

And the southeast Asian nation may soon be splashing out more to upgrade its defense capabilities. President Obama on Monday announced an end to decades-old military sanctions banning U.S. arms exports to Vietnam.


*How much does Vietnam spend?*

Last year, Vietnam's military expenditures totaled $4.4 billion, or 8% of total government spending, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. That's a dramatic rise from 2005, when Vietnam spent roughly $1 billion -- though the numbers are a bit fuzzy because the government doesn't publicize its defense budget.

The country's defense spending will increase further to $5 billion this year, and $6.2 billion by 2020, estimates Jon Grevatt, Asia Pacific Defense Industry Analyst at IHS Jane's.

Those numbers may be rising fast but they're dwarfed by the world's big military spenders. The U.S. leads the pack, shelling out $596 billion in 2015, according to SIPRI. China is in second place with roughly $215 billion in spending last year.


*Who are Vietnam's main suppliers?*

In recent years, around 80% of Vietnam's military purchases have come from Russia.

Vietnam has used the purchases to modernize its capabilities -- especially its surface and submarine fleets. It has also boosted coastal defenses with the purchase of anti-ship batteries and missiles. The air force primarily operates Russian-made aircraft.

Moscow is expected to maintain its leading position, but European nations and Israel have started to move into the market.

"This gives an opportunity for the U.S. to do the same," Grevatt said.

The U.S. has sold some gear to Vietnam in the past. The arms embargo was eased twice in the past decade, and most recently in 2014. Washington is currently sending six fast patrol vessels to Vietnam to help bolster its coast guard and counter Chinese ambitions in the South China Sea.


*How much business is up for grabs?*

IHS estimates that Vietnam will earmark about $1.6 billion for defense purchases this year. That's estimated to rise to $2 billion by 2020 as the overall defense budget increases.

Some of the equipment Vietnam is believed to be reviewing for purchase include Lockheed Martin's (LOCKHE) P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft and Raytheon (RTN) coastal radar systems, IHS said.

Vietnam is also expected to boost its maritime security with patrol aircraft, coastal radars and naval craft. But the government is likely to need some financing aid to complete the purchases.

Much of the business is expected to include some collaboration. In recent years, Vietnam has pushed for joint production or R&D to help upgrade its domestic capabilities.

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## MacanJawa

will vietnam buy F 35?


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet

Why did VA choose Galil ACE with 7.62x39 variant? VA might as well could have choosen superior 5.56x45...

7.62x39 by design is precise until 300 meters with AK47 while 5.56x45 is 500 meters with M16...

I have to notify you that reliable sources that tried VHS2 has confirmed the rifle is twice as precise than NATO standard thus it has precision close to a sniper rifle...



MacanJawa said:


> will vietnam buy F 35?



What a waste of money... Just buy swedish cutting edge AESA radar and shot down an F35.


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## vtnsx

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> Why did VA choose Galil ACE with 7.62x39 variant? VA might as well could have choosen superior 5.56x45...
> 
> 7.62x39 by design is precise until 300 meters with AK47 while 5.56x45 is 500 meters with M16...
> 
> I have to notify you that reliable sources that tried VHS2 has confirmed the rifle is twice as precise than NATO standard thus it has precision close to a sniper rifle...
> 
> 
> 
> What a waste of money... Just buy swedish cutting edge AESA radar and shot down an F35.



F35 is not meant for direct combat but rather an escort and defence.


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## yugocrosrb95

vtnsx said:


> F35 is not meant for direct combat but rather an escort and defence.



And as a bomber...


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> Why did VA choose Galil ACE with *7.62x39 variant*? VA might as well could have choosen superior 5.56x45...
> 
> 7.62x39 by design is precise until 300 meters with AK47 while 5.56x45 is 500 meters with M16...
> 
> I have to notify you that reliable sources that tried VHS2 has confirmed the rifle is twice as precise than NATO standard thus it has precision close to a sniper rifle...


I have no clue. maybe the army´s standard rifle is AK-47, which uses 7.62×39mm calibre.


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## Viet

India Minister of Defence will visit Vietnam in June. as both Russia and India have agreed in principle to supply Vietnam with BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, I would expect he comes to negotiate the price and delivery of the missile system. hopefully with transfer of technology.

Su-30 with brahmos missile







http://www.business-standard.com/ar...e-in-s-pore-visit-vietnam-116052301410_1.html

Press Trust of India | New Delhi May 23, 2016 Last Updated at 19:22 IST

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar will next month travel to Singapore for the key Shangri-La Dialogue focussing on inter-governmental security and also undertake a two-day bilateral visit to Vietnam to deepen military ties.

Parrikar is expected to leave for Singapore on June 3 to attend the inter-governmental security forum on June 4, defence ministry sources said here today.

Last year, Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh had represented India at the Shangri-La Dialogue which focusses on security in the Asia-Pacific region.

The Shangri-La Dialogue is an inter-governmental security forum held annually by an independent think-tank, the International Institute for Strategic Studies, and is attended by defence ministers and military chiefs of 28 Asia-Pacific countries.

Last year, US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter had attended the dialogue.

Among the issues that are likely to be discussed are freedom of navigation and security issues concerning the Asia-Pacific region.

Parrikar will then travel to Vietnam, which is involved in a territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.

Last year, India and Vietnam had decided to enhance their bilateral defence cooperation and signed a joint vision statement for five years.

Vietnam, which is building a naval deterrent to China with Russian-made Kilo-class submarines, is keen on India training its submarine personnel. It also has expressed interest to acquire Indian-made BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, a deal for which India is open to.

Vietnam may become the first country to be supplied the 290 km-range BrahMos weapon system, a joint venture of India and Russia.

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## Aqsuperman

The relationship between VN and US dont even come close to a F-15 deal, but F-35 ? Yeah right why dont we just demand some B2 Spirit and Trident ICBM with Ohio class for a change of pace :v And stantardlizing ammunition supply is the foremost choice of VN in purchasing weapon so no NATO round here..........well we may have a few uses for old US-made small arms but that is small compared to the rest of the army.

100mm T-54/55 ammunition.........which is now consist only vietnam war-era stocks


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> will vietnam buy F 35?


I think we should.

a squadron of F-35B for our Marine Corps and a small carrier to accommodate the jets. sounds unrealistic yet, but in 5 or 10 years, given our economic progress and good relationship to America, thing could come true.


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> India Minister of Defence will visit Vietnam in June. as both Russia and India have agreed in principle to supply Vietnam with BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, I would expect he comes to negotiate the price and delivery of the missile system. hopefully with transfer of technology.
> 
> Su-30 with brahmos missile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.business-standard.com/ar...e-in-s-pore-visit-vietnam-116052301410_1.html
> 
> Press Trust of India | New Delhi May 23, 2016 Last Updated at 19:22 IST
> 
> Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar will next month travel to Singapore for the key Shangri-La Dialogue focussing on inter-governmental security and also undertake a two-day bilateral visit to Vietnam to deepen military ties.
> 
> Parrikar is expected to leave for Singapore on June 3 to attend the inter-governmental security forum on June 4, defence ministry sources said here today.
> 
> Last year, Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh had represented India at the Shangri-La Dialogue which focusses on security in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> The Shangri-La Dialogue is an inter-governmental security forum held annually by an independent think-tank, the International Institute for Strategic Studies, and is attended by defence ministers and military chiefs of 28 Asia-Pacific countries.
> 
> Last year, US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter had attended the dialogue.
> 
> Among the issues that are likely to be discussed are freedom of navigation and security issues concerning the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> Parrikar will then travel to Vietnam, which is involved in a territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.
> 
> Last year, India and Vietnam had decided to enhance their bilateral defence cooperation and signed a joint vision statement for five years.
> 
> Vietnam, which is building a naval deterrent to China with Russian-made Kilo-class submarines, is keen on India training its submarine personnel. It also has expressed interest to acquire Indian-made BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, a deal for which India is open to.
> 
> Vietnam may become the first country to be supplied the 290 km-range BrahMos weapon system, a joint venture of India and Russia.



Why it takes so long for India to sell the Brahmos? I thought they agreed to sell Brahmos to Vietnam back in 2012.



Viet said:


> I think we should.
> 
> a squadron of F-35B for our Marine Corps and a small carrier to accommodate the jets. sounds unrealistic yet, but in 5 or 10 years, given our economic progress and good relationship to America, thing could come true.



The best offense is the best defense and I believe that having the most sophisticated and high tech radar and Ground to Air missiles is the most effective. When it comes to defense, Range is the biggest factor.

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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> Why it takes so long for India to sell the Brahmos? I thought they agreed to sell Brahmos to Vietnam back in 2012..


No. India has approved the sale recently, while Russia long ago.


vtnsx said:


> The best offense is the best defense and I believe that having the most sophisticated and high tech radar and Ground to Air missiles is the most effective. When it comes to defense, Range is the biggest factor.


our advantage is proximity. we need some thing to take all enemy ships, planes and islands under our long range artilleries, while our opponent needs to travel far from home.


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## CountStrike

*Vietnam will Buy Early Warning Aircraft C-295 AEW&C*

24 Mei 2016




Airbus DS C-295 AEW&C (photo : Airbus) 

Vietnam will buy at least two early-warning aircraft C-295 AEW&C to enhance the ability to control the South China Sea airspace.
World media simultaneously reported that Vietnam will buy at least 2 aircraft early warning and control air C-295 AEW&C to enhance the ability to control airspace East Sea and provide information reconnaissance, early warning control service of the sky, ready to fight.
This is not without basis when multiple signals recently that Vietnam will likely favor buying the aircraft.
*C-295 AEW&C necessary for Vietnam*
Military experts said that the C-295 AEW&C is now very necessary for Vietnam.
Accordingly, Vietnam Army was initially formed diverse combat capability with modern weapons such as the Su-30MK2 aircraft, high-speed vessels Molniya rocket, rocket ship Gepard 3.9 Guardians, submarine Kilo 636, missile shore Bastion-P.
However, we still lack a means of linking the modern weapon systems as well as an extended arm to operate, it's early warning aircraft.




The delegation visiting Vietnam Army C-295 aircraft AEW&C (photo : Soha)
The early warning aircraft act in coordination with aircraft, warships help remote target detection, homing missiles, expanding the range of weapons combat. Besides early warning aircraft are also intermediate link, as well as help coordinate the activities of different weapons.
Also according to analysts, this aircraft uses the chassis of the transport aircraft C-295 should help to reduce maintenance costs as well as trained pilots, mechanics.
ELTA radar could be linked to the arms of the Russian system, which Vietnam is owned by Israel have a lot of experience in improving weapons as well as providing radar early warning aircraft to India (the country use Russian aircraft system), C-295 AEW&C is considered the optimal solution for the needs of Vietnam.
*Many positive signs*
In particular, local and international media also published photographs delegations visiting Vietnam Military C-295 aircraft AEW&C.
This is considered a good signal to accelerate the process of negotiation and transfer between Vietnam and the defense industrial company Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), Israel.





C-295 AEW&C (photo : Jiri Zedka)
In a statement to the media in February month 6/2014, Mr. Antonio Rodríguez Barberan, Director of Airbus DS (subsidiary of Airbus Group European aviation) officially revealed, Ecuador and Vietnam is two of the many new customers have ordered 3 transport aircraft C-295 Airbus DS for each country.
Meanwhile, Russia's Independent newspaper, said that the modernization requires the Air Force in the near future, Vietnam will buy at least two aircraft airborne early warning, in which CASA C-295 is one of the leading candidate.
Because this will be the aircraft is equipped with the electronic system can be compatible with 6 seaplane DHC-6 Twin Otter Navy Air Force Vietnam and create a network of surveillance and early warning area for both air and sea, thereby enhancing the combat readiness capability for our Army.
(Soha)

http://defense-studies.blogspot.co.id/2016/05/vietnam-will-buy-early-warning-aircraft.html

http://soha.vn/tin-hieu-viet-nam-mua-may-bay-canh-bao-som-c-295-aewc-20160523022938662.htm

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## Viet

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...mplement-North-Korea-sanctions/8751464047220/

White House: U.S., Vietnam to implement North Korea sanctions
By Elizabeth Shim



| May 23, 2016 at 9:42 PM *







*













WASHINGTON, May 23 (UPI) -- Security cooperation is key between the United States and Vietnam, and the two are coordinating on implementing North Korea sanctions, according to the White House.

In a fact sheet released Monday, the White House stated the United States and Vietnam are "working together to prevent North Korea's proliferation activities and to fully implement [United Nations Security Council Resolution] 2270."

The sanctions resolution that passed in early March includes the strictest bans on weapons of mass destruction that could be exported from North Korea.

Vietnam has been implementing the sanctions.

In late April, Vietnam expelled a North Korean diplomat blacklisted under U.S. and U.N. Security Council sanctions.

Choe Sung Il, who was reportedly in charge of North Korean arms sales in Southeast Asia, was deported April 23. He was added to a blacklist of North Korean individuals maintained by the U.S. Treasury Department last December, and subsequently added to the U.N. sanctions list in March, which allows U.N. member countries to expel him or bar him from entry.

Ahead of the summit between President Obama and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang, Washington and Seoul had pushed on with diplomatic efforts in Southeast Asia, in order to encourage cooperation with the sanctions, South Korean news agency Yonhap reported.

The White House also said in the statement that Washington has provided more than $45.7 million since fiscal year 2014 for Vietnam to build its maritime security capabilities.

The United States is also looking into supplying 18 MetalShark 450-foot patrol boats, training and maritime law enforcement equipment to Vietnam's Coast Guard.

Both the United States and Vietnam have criticized China's island-building activities in the South China Sea on reefs claimed by multiple countries.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...mplement-North-Korea-sanctions/8751464047220/
> 
> White House: U.S., Vietnam to implement North Korea sanctions
> By Elizabeth Shim
> 
> 
> 
> | May 23, 2016 at 9:42 PM *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON, May 23 (UPI) -- Security cooperation is key between the United States and Vietnam, and the two are coordinating on implementing North Korea sanctions, according to the White House.
> 
> In a fact sheet released Monday, the White House stated the United States and Vietnam are "working together to prevent North Korea's proliferation activities and to fully implement [United Nations Security Council Resolution] 2270."
> 
> The sanctions resolution that passed in early March includes the strictest bans on weapons of mass destruction that could be exported from North Korea.
> 
> Vietnam has been implementing the sanctions.
> 
> In late April, Vietnam expelled a North Korean diplomat blacklisted under U.S. and U.N. Security Council sanctions.
> 
> Choe Sung Il, who was reportedly in charge of North Korean arms sales in Southeast Asia, was deported April 23. He was added to a blacklist of North Korean individuals maintained by the U.S. Treasury Department last December, and subsequently added to the U.N. sanctions list in March, which allows U.N. member countries to expel him or bar him from entry.
> 
> Ahead of the summit between President Obama and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang, Washington and Seoul had pushed on with diplomatic efforts in Southeast Asia, in order to encourage cooperation with the sanctions, South Korean news agency Yonhap reported.
> 
> The White House also said in the statement that Washington has provided more than $45.7 million since fiscal year 2014 for Vietnam to build its maritime security capabilities.
> 
> The United States is also looking into supplying 18 MetalShark 450-foot patrol boats, training and maritime law enforcement equipment to Vietnam's Coast Guard.
> 
> Both the United States and Vietnam have criticized China's island-building activities in the South China Sea on reefs claimed by multiple countries.



There is an error in: *"supplying 18 MetalShark 450-foot patrol boats"*. Its not 450 foot, but 45 foot=15 meters.

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## Carlosa

*Why Obama’s Lifting of the Vietnam Arms Embargo Matters*
*http://thediplomat.com/2016/05/why-obamas-lifting-of-the-vietnam-arms-embargo-matters/
*
In a historic move, U.S. President Barack Obama announced Monday that Washington was fully lifting a decades-old embargo on the sale of arms to Vietnam during his first visit to the Southeast Asian country, ending weeks of speculation about the move (See: “Exclusive: US May Lift Vietnam Arms Embargo for Obama Visit”). The step is a significant one not just for U.S.-Vietnam relations, but also for Obama’s foreign policy legacy and broader regional dynamics in the Asia-Pacific (See: “The Case for Lifting the US Vietnam Arms Embargo”).

The significance of the move is clearest for the U.S.-Vietnam bilateral relationship, which began the process of normalization under former president Bill Clinton in 1995. Symbolically, the lifting of the embargo – following a partial lift in October 2014 – represents a removal of an obstacle from the past – a “lingering vestige of the Cold War,” as Obama put it in his remarks in Hanoi – that paves the way for improved relations in the future (See: “Obama Fully Lifts Vietnam Arms Embargo on Visit”). Vietnamese officials have long said that a lifting would be a sign that relations have been fully normalized. The step is also in line with the narrative both sides have embraced of putting aside the past and looking toward the future in the relationship.

Substantively, this is a big step for U.S.-Vietnam defense cooperation, even if the payoff may not be as quickly realized as some might hope. Following the signing of the 2015 Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations between the two sides last June, a full lifting removes remaining restrictions on Washington’s latitude to provide Hanoi with weapons for its defense, even though any actual sales would still have to meet strict requirements and will be approved on a case-by-case basis (See: “US, Vietnam Deepen Defense Ties”). Sales will also be contingent on other factors, including growing Vietnam’s familiarization with U.S. procurement procedures relative to its other traditional defense partners like Russia. That said, both sides have taken recent steps to address this that could pave the way for future deals – including the holding of a defense industry symposium earlier this month to facilitate interactions between Vietnamese officials and U.S. defense firms.

But the move has significance beyond the bilateral relationship as well. The president’s advisers, as well as Obama himself, view the positive trajectory of U.S.-Vietnam relations as a boost for the administration’s focus on engagement as well as its cultivation of new partners in the U.S. rebalance to the Asia-Pacific. On the former, a major aspect of Obama’s foreign policy has been pursuing previously untapped opportunities to make progress in important but previously problematic relationships – as can be seen in the cases of the Iran nuclear deal, the normalization of ties with Cuba, and greater engagement with Myanmar. Though relations with Vietnam were already normalized back in 1995, the lifting of the embargo, a realization of one such untapped opportunity, is read to be part of a deliberate effort to boost the U.S.-Vietnam comprehensive partnership first inked in 2013 even further, in spite of traditional concerns over human rights and democracy.

In terms of the U.S. pivot or rebalance to the Asia-Pacific, the lifting of the embargo is testament to the significance that Washington has placed in Southeast Asia on emerging partnerships with Vietnam along with other countries like Malaysia (in addition to traditional treaty alliances in Thailand and the Philippines). The move – which took some heavy lifting domestically and is already sparking outcry among activists, rights groups and some lawmakers – was taken in spite of this in part as an acknowledgement by Washington of Vietnam’s own rising strategic importance within U.S. Asia policy, as well as its role in the region and world.

Hanoi’s involvement in a range of key U.S.-led initiatives – from the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal to the new Maritime Security Initiative – along with its increasing contributions to the region and the world in fields like peacekeeping, has meant that its value to the United States has risen significantly relative to even just a few years ago (See: “America’s New Maritime Security Initiative for Southeast Asia”). Indeed, in spite of limits such as human rights, administration officials often seem to be running out of adjectives to describe the upward trajectory of the relationship over the past two decades – from “impressive” to “remarkable” to “breathtaking”. And the lifting opens the door to even more opportunities on the defense side that could see Hanoi’s place in the regional picture grow even further into the future.

Finally, the impact of the lifting, along with its timing, means that it will have important implications for regional dynamics as well. Most obviously, the fact that it comes on the heels of the much-awaited Philippine South China Sea case against China at the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) sends a powerful message to China and the region (See: “Does the Philippines’ South China Sea Case Against China Really Matter?”). Contrary to some interpretations – including some coming out of Beijing – the message is _not_ about containing China. Rather, it is that China’s own destabilizing acts, as evidenced in the South China Sea with moves such as positioning an oil rig in Vietnam’s waters in 2014, are causing countries to move closer to the United States and leading Beijing to contain itself. The Philippines’s signing of a new defense pact with the United States in 2014 is yet another example of this trend, along with other access agreements Washington has concluded with Southeast Asian states (See: “A Big Deal? US, Philippines Agree First ‘Bases’ Under New Defense Pact”).

So while the impact of the lifting of the U.S. arms embargo to Vietnam will largely be viewed through the lens of the bilateral relationship, in reality its significance extends far beyond that. As we head into the last remaining months of this administration as well as what is likely to be a busy summer in the South China Sea, that is a point worth remembering.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> There is an error in: *"supplying 18 MetalShark 450-foot patrol boats"*. Its not 450 foot, but 45 foot=15 meters.


you are right. the official release of the White House. it tells 18 Metal Shark 45-foot patrol boats with equipment's.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/05/23/fact-sheet-united-states-vietnam-relations

bilateral trade $45 billion in 2015

U.S. exports to Vietnam increased by 23 percent year-on-year

Vietnam exports to the US increased by 24 percent year-on-year

U.S. investment in Vietnam $1.5 billion

Vietnam receives $45.7 million (Foreign Military Financing and law enforcement capacity building programs), 18 Metal Shark 45-foot patrol boats with equipments (Reduction Program and Maritime Security Initiative)

19,000 Vietnamese now study in the United States -- 40 percent more than in 2009

80,000 Vietnamese visited the United States in 2015

Fulbright University Vietnam (FUV) will open in Saigon later this year

13,000 Vietnamese are members of the Young Southeast Asia Leaders Initiative (YSEALI)

Vietnam allows the US Peace Corps

the US provides $92 million since 1993 to address the threats posed by unexploded ordnances (UXO), $90 million in dioxin remediation efforts, also funding an environmental assessment at Bien Hoa airbase

Vietnam receives $40 million since 2011 to help mitigate the impacts of climate change

the US provides assistance in reducing greenhouse gas emissions from the agriculture, forestry, and energy sectors and building resilience for communities in the Mekong River and Red River Deltas and along the coast of Vietnam

America is partnering with Vietnam to build capacity to prevent, detect, and respond to biological threats, including through Vietnam’s five-year roadmap to achieve the targets of the Global Health Security Agenda and our joint effort to undertake and share external assessments of capability.

Vietnam receives $50,000 drought assistance, $5 million to counter wildlife trafficking

the USAID supports economic engagement strengthening the rule of law

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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> I have no clue. maybe the army´s standard rifle is AK-47, which uses 7.62×39mm calibre.
> 
> View attachment 306703



AK-47 has nothing to do with it... Problem is that your goverment is being cheap on foot troopers... And you dont have jungles anymore for cover and traps...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Viet said:


> Hanoi, May 23
> 
> Official Greeting to the President of a Superpower: Barack Obama


Country massacre 2 million Vietnamese... Turned cities into brothels and today they sign deals with the same communists under the statue of Ho chi .. Politics..



Barmaley said:


> Of course, actually, Vietnam is considered as a strategic partner in the region.



Not against the Chinese .. US is opening upto Vietnam against the Chinese.. Who are Russia's largest defence & strategic partners..


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## Viet

Eating Drinking like a local. Barack Obama and Anthony Bourdain meet up in Hanoi for some beer and bun cha. the episode will be featured on CNN later in September this year.

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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> AK-47 has nothing to do with it... Problem is that your goverment is being cheap on foot troopers... And you dont have jungles anymore for cover and traps...



Its has everything to do with it lol. VN is not only about the jungle. Humidity, mud, sand.v.v....Only the AK can pull thourgh that all. Even with new rifle in place, what are you going to do with 2 types of ammunition heh ? You know how many changes have to be implented to switch an main ammunition type ? That is a damn logicstic and training nightmare. Look back to Geogria, changed their entire armforce to M4 rifle just to switch back to AK-types when 2008 war broke out. You dont just go in the army and say "Hey, i like this ammunition type, let switch all of our army rifle to use them" . Its easy to say stuff when you dont have to pay a single coin out to make it real. 

ASW from US and Russia. Still, Tu-142 is no longer in production so P-3 is on the high posistion

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## vtnsx

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Country massacre 2 million Vietnamese... Turned cities into brothels and today they sign deals with the same communists under the statue of Ho chi .. Politics..
> 
> 
> 
> Not against the Chinese .. US is opening upto Vietnam against the Chinese.. Who are Russia's largest defence & strategic partners..



Do you even know the Vietnam war? I don't think you do.


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## Titikaka

vtnsx said:


> Do you even know the Vietnam war? I don't think you do.


Yes, chineses helps Khmer Rouge to massacre 3 million Khmer people, now look at relationship between two country and why u dont ask "why"


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## Viet

The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
May 24, 2016


*FACT SHEET: Trade and Investment with Vietnam*


The United States is continuing to strengthen its commercial relationship with Vietnam, a rapidly-growing country that offers U.S. businesses and workers substantial opportunities for expanded trade and investment, promoting economic growth and development, and supporting jobs. U.S.-Vietnam goods trade totaled $451 million in 1995, the year the United States and Vietnam normalized diplomatic relations, and since then has increased nearly a hundredfold to $45 billion.

Our relationship is fast-growing: In 2015, U.S. exports to Vietnam grew by 23 percent, the largest year-on-year increase of exports to any of America’s top 50 export markets. Over the period 2010 to 2015, Vietnam was the second fastest growing of America’s top 50 export markets.

Our relationship is diversifying: U.S. export growth is high in sectors ranging from integrated circuits to civil aircraft, and cotton, dairy, tree/fruit nuts, and other agricultural products. In the last five years Vietnam has developed an important role as a supplier of high-tech consumer products to the United States.

Our relationship is inclusive: Trade included small and family businesses in both countries as well as large firms. As of 2014, 6,031 small- and medium-sized American firms exported to Vietnam while 5,895 small- and medium-sized U.S. businesses imported Vietnamese goods.

We are now taking the next step. In addition to witnessing over $16 billion in deal signings to advance aviation and energy sector development in Vietnam and support tens of thousands of U.S. jobs, President Obama’s visit highlights our commitment in the following areas:


*Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)*

TPP is central to our goal of deepening the U.S.-Vietnamese economic relationship. The Administration has made securing ratification of TPP a top priority and is working with Vietnam and other TPP partners to help them ensure timely and complete implementation of their TPP commitments. TPP will create new opportunities for American and Vietnamese workers and businesses, including small businesses; promote innovation and the digital economy; foster fair competition, transparency, and good governance; and promote workers’ rights, conservation, and sustainable growth. It also is a critical step toward our strategic goal of revitalizing the open, rules-based economic system that the United States has led since World War II.

The U.S. government will commit resources and technical expertise to support Vietnam and our other TPP partners to implement and effectively enforce the obligations of the agreement. To support Vietnam, the United States is providing more than $30 million in capacity building assistance, which will include work to ensure freedom of association, including independent unions, and other internationally recognized labor rights; protection and enforcement of intellectual property; and environmental protection and sustainable growth.


*U.S. Corporate Social Responsibility*

U.S. foreign direct investment in Vietnam grew to $1.5 billion in 2014 and has been complemented by U.S. corporate citizenship investments in Vietnam’s communities and environment. U.S. firms in Vietnam uphold high standards of corporate citizenship by investing in the communities and environment in which they do business. For example, U.S. companies in Vietnam have trained hundreds of engineers on environmental protection and sustainable development, donated over $12 million in software and services to support hundreds of non-governmental organizations, and enhanced the skillset of tens of thousands of teachers and students in the use of information and communication technology. The U.S. government is committed to supporting public-private partnerships that encourage corporate social responsibility by U.S. firms:

A USAID partnership with Arizona State University and several U.S. companies is enabling university-private sector collaboration, and developing curriculum partnerships, mentorships, and industry-sponsored practical opportunities.

Numerous U.S. companies are collaborating on a new USAID alliance with Harvard Medical School and two Boston-area hospitals to improve the quality and effectiveness of medical education in Vietnam, including in areas relevant to the Global Health Security Agenda.

In 2016, Cargill Vietnam won the U.S. Secretary of State’s Award for Corporate Excellence for its long-term commitment to investing in its farmer-partners, supporting community health, and training over 12,000 farmers in sustainable production techniques. Cargill Vietnam’s Cargill Cares school building program has built and delivered 76 schools across rural communities, benefiting more than 13,000 children per year.


*A Whole-of-Government Approach to Partnership*

The United States employs a whole-of-government approach to support U.S. exports to and investment in Vietnam, including programs that promote sustainable and inclusive economic growth, encourage legitimate and accountable governance while addressing trade barriers, support corporate social responsibility, and strengthen the rule of law and business climate.


*U.S.-ASEAN Connect Initiative*

Through U.S.-ASEAN Connect, the U.S. government will work with Vietnam and other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to foster the policy environments that promote ASEAN economic integration, increase trade and investment, assist the development of clean energy and energy connectivity, and spur sustainable, innovation-led economic growth.


*U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID)*

USAID’s economic growth and governance programs will support Vietnam’s efforts to promote greater transparency and accountability, economic openness, competition, and the rule of law in economic affairs. USAID has contributed to over 150 laws and related regulations and decrees, and assisted more than 50 Vietnamese government agency counterparts in the legal and economic reform process.


*U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)*

Vietnam now ranks as the United States’ 11th-largest agricultural export market. To burgeon this relationship, USDA will assist Vietnam’s capacity building on a wide range of areas, including: food safety, climate-smart agriculture, biotechnology, animal health, plant health, modern retail/distribution, and other sector-specific topics.


*U.S. Department of Commerce*

The U.S. Department of Commerce will work alongside the U.S. private sector to assist Vietnam in developing the strong infrastructure the country requires to meet its goals of economic modernization by 2035. The Department commits to arranging annual private sector meetings with the appropriate ministries, in addition to continuing its infrastructure-focused conferences in areas such as healthcare, aviation, smart cities, and clean energy.

The Department plans on leading a Water Infrastructure Business Development Mission to Vietnam in July 2016, to introduce new technologies and internationally recognized codes and standards to strengthen Vietnam’s water sector. The Department also plans to organize a Civil Nuclear Trade Mission in 2017, supporting U.S.-Vietnamese industry cooperation in the development of Vietnam’s civil nuclear program.


*U.S. Department of State*

The U.S. Department of State has contributed to Vietnam’s development of a science-based regulatory system to address trade and food security issues including on agricultural biotechnology through activities that have reached hundreds of Vietnamese policymakers, scientists, academics, and journalists.


*U.S. Department of the Treasury*

To build a more transparent and accountable financial reporting infrastructure, the U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Technical Assistance (OTA) will continue to provide Vietnam’s Ministry of Finance technical assistance toward the creation of country-wide training programs on International Public Sector Accounting Standards; accounting resources and tools, including financial statement reports and templates; and user guide manuals that will document the Whole-of-Government consolidated financial statement preparation process.


*U.S. Export-Import Bank (EXIM Bank)*

Since 2009, EXIM Bank has authorized over $800 million in loans, guarantees and insurance to support U.S. exports – from businesses large and small – to Vietnam. These exports have supported U.S.-Vietnam economic engagement across multiple sectors including renewable energy, aviation, and manufacturing. These U.S. exports not only support thousands of jobs in the United States, but also create jobs and boost infrastructure investment in Vietnam.

EXIM will remain actively engaged on future opportunities to finance U.S. exports to Vietnam, particularly those that also support Vietnam’s infrastructure development needs. EXIM Bank reaffirms its interest in supporting U.S. exports for civil nuclear power projects in Vietnam.


*U.S. Trade and Development Agency (USTDA)*

USTDA will continue to connect U.S. businesses to priority projects in Vietnam’s clean energy, information technology, transportation, and water sectors. By building mutually beneficial partnerships that leverage capital for Vietnam’s infrastructure development, the Agency will expand upon the $3 billion in U.S. exports that it has already helped facilitate to Vietnam.

USTDA is committed to helping strengthen Vietnam's aviation safety oversight. In the energy sector the Agency is facilitating the development of 470 megawatts of wind power generation, which could leverage over $1 billion in investment. In urban transportation, USTDA is supporting a $100 million information and communication technology deployment for the Ho Chi Minh City metro rail system.

To support Vietnam’s shift from coal-fired power generation, USTDA will sponsor a natural gas reverse trade mission to the United States in fall 2016. The visit will highlight the United States’ experience in the construction, operation, maintenance, and refurbishment of gas-fired power plants and related infrastructure.

Through its Global Procurement Initiative: Understanding Best Value (GPI), USTDA will partner with the Ministry of Planning and Investment to design a database to track and monitor the performance of contractors who provide billions of dollars in goods and services to the Government of Vietnam each year.


*Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC)*

As the U.S. government’s development finance institution, OPIC will leverage its newly opened office in Southeast Asia to unlock opportunities that support Vietnam's economic development through private sector investment in all sectors, with particular attention to renewable energy and aviation infrastructure.

Since 2003, OPIC has provided more than $40 million in financing and insurance support to seven projects in Vietnam. OPIC’s investments have cut across sectors, including communications, manufacturing, consulting and economic development services, aquaculture, and power generation.




#############################


this news is nice too.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...ietnam-civil-nuclear-clean-energy-cooperation

the U.S. supports Vietnam’s civil nuclear program. With first step of establishing "Technical Support Center for Nuclear Security and Safeguards". It is important to note, that although Vietnam is party to most relevant nonproliferation treaties and agreements, including:

- Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT)
- Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (CTBT)
- Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC)
- Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC)

but Vietnam is not a member of any of the major export control regimes.

That gives a hint to any country that threatens the use of nuclear weapons.

Vietnam First Nuclear Power Plant Ninh Thuan I

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> AK-47 has nothing to do with it... Problem is that your goverment is being cheap on foot troopers... And you dont have jungles anymore for cover and traps...


you troller. AKs with 7.62×39mm calibre are in battles, wars proven. as Galil rifles use the same calibre, it saves costs, too in respect to production, maintenance, etc. 300m effective distance is good enough. for longer distance, infantryman can use Galil Negev machine gun (used by the Marines). Effective firing range: up to 1000 m.

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## Viet

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/japan-looking-into-new/2759778.html


I believe this news was probably missed: Japan wants "swiftly" provide Vietnam with more second-hand vessels for sea patrol, in addition to 6 boats already provided last year. Plus Japan examines Vietnam government´s request for delivering of new patrol vessels. timing, method of delivery, costs and quantity of vessels not yet been decided.

"Japan is a maritime country with a lot of know-how, so it's perfectly understandable that countries like Vietnam come to Japan for help. We're doing our best".

so Japan's foreign ministry deputy spokesman Masato Otaka. _He _told reporters vessel delivery is not related to the tension in the SC Sea  .though it is not revealed what vessels Vietnam wants, but I would guess, we seek some sort of patrol vessels that have experience in protecting the Senkaku islands against a certain foreign intruder.


1,000 ton Hateruma class





2,000 ton Hida class

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## Viet

http://sputniknews.com/military/20160525/1040200430/vietnam-us-fighter-jets.html

25.05.2016

Littoral Combat Ships and F-18 Super-Hornet jets will probably top Vietnam’s shopping list for US-made weapons now that President Barack Obama has lifted Washington’s 50-year-old arms embargo on Hanoi, former US diplomat Jim Jatras told Sputnik.







F-18 fighter



WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — Obama announced in Hanoi on Monday the lifting of the US embargo on Vietnam during his three-day visit.

"Among the systems Hanoi reportedly is interested in are Lockheed Martin’s F-16 jets, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet jets, competing littoral combat ship designs from Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics, and precision-guidance munitions from Raytheon and Boeing," Jatras said on Tuesday.

Jatras dismissed Obama’s assurance on Monday that his decision to lift the arms embargo was not based on China or any other considerations as unworthy of serious consideration.

"News reports indicate that Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and General Dynamics are already lining up, with some major announcements expected before the end of this year," Jatras, a former foreign policy adviser to Republican members of the US Senate, noted.

However, while such arms sales might prove profitable for major US defense contractors, they would also propel the United States further down the road toward a potential confrontation with China, Jatras warned.

"President Obama’s decision to lift bans to weapons sales to Vietnam is another step along the road to a major confrontation between the United States and China."





© REUTERS/ Carlos Barria


Obama’s remark was "a transparent falsehood, and one could almost see his nose growing as he said it," the former US diplomat said.

If Vietnam does buy large quantities of US weapons, it will boost its influence on US foreign policy and feed pressures for Washington to step up its confrontations with China, Jatras warned.

"Vietnam is the world’s eighth-largest arms importer with purchases virtually all aimed at China, and therefore it is set to become another Saudi Arabia in terms of the influence it exercises over US policy."

Washington was needlessly provoking clashes with China just as it was against Russia on the other side of the world, Jatras emphasized.

"The Obama administration has treated China’s territorial claims in the South China Sea with the same recklessness evident in NATO’s beefed-up presence in the Baltic and Black seas with respect to Russia."

Both regions were areas where US interests were next to nil, yet Washington regarded them as vital to the major power it was challenging, supposedly to protect allies and partners whose contribution to American security was nonexistent, Jatras elaborated.

However, the growing US ties with Vietnam would threaten Russian interests in the region as well, Jatras claimed.

"But a budding US-Vietnam axis does not directly threaten Russia in its own neighborhood: It is likely something Moscow can find a way to adjust to."

Also, unlike the United States, Russia had proven capable of seeing other countries’ relationships with third parties in other than simple binary terms, Jatras concluded.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> http://sputniknews.com/military/20160525/1040200430/vietnam-us-fighter-jets.html
> 
> 25.05.2016
> 
> Littoral Combat Ships and F-18 Super-Hornet jets will probably top Vietnam’s shopping list for US-made weapons now that President Barack Obama has lifted Washington’s 50-year-old arms embargo on Hanoi, former US diplomat Jim Jatras told Sputnik.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F-18 fighter
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — Obama announced in Hanoi on Monday the lifting of the US embargo on Vietnam during his three-day visit.
> 
> "Among the systems Hanoi reportedly is interested in are Lockheed Martin’s F-16 jets, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet jets, competing littoral combat ship designs from Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics, and precision-guidance munitions from Raytheon and Boeing," Jatras said on Tuesday.
> 
> Jatras dismissed Obama’s assurance on Monday that his decision to lift the arms embargo was not based on China or any other considerations as unworthy of serious consideration.
> 
> "News reports indicate that Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and General Dynamics are already lining up, with some major announcements expected before the end of this year," Jatras, a former foreign policy adviser to Republican members of the US Senate, noted.
> 
> However, while such arms sales might prove profitable for major US defense contractors, they would also propel the United States further down the road toward a potential confrontation with China, Jatras warned.
> 
> "President Obama’s decision to lift bans to weapons sales to Vietnam is another step along the road to a major confrontation between the United States and China."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © REUTERS/ Carlos Barria
> 
> 
> Obama’s remark was "a transparent falsehood, and one could almost see his nose growing as he said it," the former US diplomat said.
> 
> If Vietnam does buy large quantities of US weapons, it will boost its influence on US foreign policy and feed pressures for Washington to step up its confrontations with China, Jatras warned.
> 
> "Vietnam is the world’s eighth-largest arms importer with purchases virtually all aimed at China, and therefore it is set to become another Saudi Arabia in terms of the influence it exercises over US policy."
> 
> Washington was needlessly provoking clashes with China just as it was against Russia on the other side of the world, Jatras emphasized.
> 
> "The Obama administration has treated China’s territorial claims in the South China Sea with the same recklessness evident in NATO’s beefed-up presence in the Baltic and Black seas with respect to Russia."
> 
> Both regions were areas where US interests were next to nil, yet Washington regarded them as vital to the major power it was challenging, supposedly to protect allies and partners whose contribution to American security was nonexistent, Jatras elaborated.
> 
> However, the growing US ties with Vietnam would threaten Russian interests in the region as well, Jatras claimed.
> 
> "But a budding US-Vietnam axis does not directly threaten Russia in its own neighborhood: It is likely something Moscow can find a way to adjust to."
> 
> Also, unlike the United States, Russia had proven capable of seeing other countries’ relationships with third parties in other than simple binary terms, Jatras concluded.



Vietnam interested in Littoral Combat Ships? I don't believe that for a moment.


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> you troller. AKs with 7.62×39mm calibre are in battles, wars proven. as Galil rifles use the same calibre, it saves costs, too in respect to production, maintenance, etc. 300m effective distance is good enough. for longer distance, infantryman can use Galil Negev machine gun (used by the Marines). Effective firing range: up to 1000 m.



You admit that your goverment is being cheap on your foot troopers by sticking with inferior more expensive to produce round while chinese are going for 5.8mm with bullpups also converting and making new their AKs that chamber 5.8mm.

300 meters is simply not good enough when a Chinese foot trooper will able to engage your comrades at 500-600 meters effectively with precision and penetration power to penetrate a helmet due to its more focused kinetic energy.

Screw machine gunners... They are considerably less more and far machine guns than assault rifles... And it uses the same round as Galil ACE?

How does it save costs? It does not in the long run. Screw reducing costs by half in terms of cost of ammunition used in training and war...


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## jhungary

Aqsuperman said:


> Its has everything to do with it lol. VN is not only about the jungle. Humidity, mud, sand.v.v....Only the AK can pull thourgh that all. Even with new rifle in place, what are you going to do with 2 types of ammunition heh ? You know how many changes have to be implented to switch an main ammunition type ? That is a damn logicstic and training nightmare. Look back to Geogria, changed their entire armforce to M4 rifle just to switch back to AK-types when 2008 war broke out. You dont just go in the army and say "Hey, i like this ammunition type, let switch all of our army rifle to use them" . Its easy to say stuff when you dont have to pay a single coin out to make it real.
> 
> ASW from US and Russia. Still, Tu-142 is no longer in production so P-3 is on the high posistion



Actually, L-188 Electra (The P-3 Hull) were also out of production 40 years ago. If Vietnam gone for P-3, the only way Vietnam can get them is 2nd hand. If you want brand new, you need P-8........

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam May Request F-16s, P-3 Orions From US*
*http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...nam-may-request-f-16s-p-3-orions-us/84904786/
*
TAIPEI, Taiwan — With the lifting of the US arms embargo to Vietnam, a US defense industry source indicates Hanoi is seeking to improve its air defense and maritime security capabilities with the procurement of F-16 fighter aircraft from the US Pentagon’s excess defense articles (EDA) program and refurbished P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, armed with torpedoes.

The source also said Vietnam could seek US-made UAVs for maritime intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions.

Torpedoes were banned under the embargo, but now the Vietnamese want the same P-3 program the US sold to Taiwan, the source said. On the F-16 EDA, they want the same deal the Obama administration gave Indonesia.

Defense News has also acquired an unclassified defense industry briefing prepared by the US Pacific Command. According to the report, “Socialist Republic of Vietnam — Country Security Cooperation Plan,” the US Embassy in Hanoi “possesses a robust security cooperating program operating in accordance with US policy goals and interests to promote integration and access focused on key areas within the Vietnamese security architecture.”






Defense News has acquired an unclassified defense industry briefing prepared by the US Pacific Command. According to the report, the US Embassy in Hanoi “possesses a robust security cooperating program operating in accordance with US policy goals and interests to promote integration and access focused on key areas within the Vietnamese security architecture.” (Photo: US Pacific Command)

These include achieving air and maritime domain awareness, providing maritime security against traditional and nontraditional security threats, delivering all-hazards response and support to civil authorities, participating in regional contingency response and international peacekeeping operations, and addressing the impact of Vietnam War legacy issues on civil society.

“The SCO [Security Cooperation Organization] is manned and capable of providing in-country support and coordination for programs to expand US defense article procurement ... and assist Vietnam in developing and sustaining professional armed forces,” the report said.

According to the report, Vietnam’s strategic outlook involves the survival of the Communist Party by maintaining sovereignty and independence, achieving freedom of maneuver, and ensuring sovereignty over its exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and unfettered access to natural resources and the global economic market.

China has been testing Vietnam’s EEZ claims with incursions by maritime patrol vessels, aggressive commercial fishing vessels and the stationing of an oil drilling test platform in 2014, dubbed the Haiyang Shiyou 981 standoff.

Vietnam’s goals, according to the report, are to enhance its presence in the South China Sea with upgrades for submarine warfare, maritime air-ground interdiction, anti-surface warfare (ASUW), anti-submarine warfare (ASW), maritime domain awareness (MDA), early warning, and command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR).

In the past, Vietnam has procured defense articles from sources within the former Soviet Union and former East Bloc nations, but it has “begun reaching out to the European Union, Israel, and others.”

On radar issues, the Vietnamese are procuring a high-frequency surface wave radar from the US for $30 million, according to the report. This is part of their overall effort to improve early warning and ISR.

The report breaks down each service requirement.

For the Army, it must transition from a territorial defense structure, retain a central role as defender of national sovereignty and improve capacity to respond to natural disasters.

The Air Force must improve early warning and airborne ISR, enhance maritime interdiction, develop anti-access/area-denial capabilities, and revamp pilot training.

The Navy must improve MDA, electronic countermeasures/electronic counter-countermeasures, electronic intelligence, expand maritime law enforcement capabilities, develop a naval aviation arm, and enhance ASW and ASUW.

The US Embassy’s primary cooperation vision is to promote the United States as a “reliable partner to address complex, forward looking security issues.” It also hopes to establish military relationships outside the traditional theater support command that include defense sales, cross-servicing, voyage repairs, and science and technology cooperation.

The report said that priorities include the “establishment” of sustainable lines of effort (LOE) and “synchronize” operations, actions and activities (OAA); instill a programmatic, regularized approach to security cooperation; and focus on nontraditional security approaches and humanitarian activities.

According to Carl Thayer, emeritus professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy, big-ticket sales may be a long way off: “Vietnam does not have the defense budget for that. It is fully committed to integrating six advanced Kilo-class submarines into its fleet,” and all maintenance, repair and logistics network and workforce are geared to work with Soviet/Russian technology.

Another hurdle for Vietnam is that Hanoi will continue to face the same restrictions that all other countries face when trying to procure US arms, Thayer said, including human rights issues and the authoritarian nature of the government in power.

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## KAL-EL

Viet said:


> Eating Drinking like a local. Barack Obama and Anthony Bourdain meet up in Hanoi for some beer and bun cha. the episode will be featured on CNN later in September this year.



I look forward to watching that episode. I really like Anthony Bourdain in general. The one problem is, I almost always get hungry while watching his show.

I like the way he samples the cuisine from various different countries.

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> You admit that your goverment is being cheap on your foot troopers by sticking with inferior more expensive to produce round while chinese are going for 5.8mm with bullpups also converting and making new their AKs that chamber 5.8mm.
> 
> 300 meters is simply not good enough when a Chinese foot trooper will able to engage your comrades at 500-600 meters effectively with precision and penetration power to penetrate a helmet due to its more focused kinetic energy.
> 
> Screw machine gunners... They are considerably less more and far machine guns than assault rifles... And it uses the same round as Galil ACE?
> 
> How does it save costs? It does not in the long run. Screw reducing costs by half in terms of cost of ammunition used in training and war...


ha ha ha ...cheap or not cheap is not only the question you need to consider here. The other factor you should have in mind too is destruction power. A salvo of great caliber bullets on enemy soldiers make more fun, creating more impression on them than one of smaller caliber. Hiding behind vests and helmets won't help much.

Like everything in life you need to make compromise.

Negev machine gun uses the same 7.62 caliber.

How about the Croatian Army? 

Why does the Army of Finland use the same caliber as Vietnam?


----------



## Aqsuperman

jhungary said:


> Actually, L-188 Electra (The P-3 Hull) were also out of production 40 years ago. If Vietnam gone for P-3, the only way Vietnam can get them is 2nd hand. If you want brand new, you need P-8........



My mistake there :v Still, i consider the superior number of P-3 is a advantage. P-8 is not really a choice since we cant get our hand on it with the recent relation with US. Aiming for P-3 of countries that about to get the P-8 is more realostic 



yugocrosrb95 said:


> You admit that your goverment is being cheap on your foot troopers by sticking with inferior more expensive to produce round while chinese are going for 5.8mm with bullpups also converting and making new their AKs that chamber 5.8mm.
> 
> 300 meters is simply not good enough when a Chinese foot trooper will able to engage your comrades at 500-600 meters effectively with precision and penetration power to penetrate a helmet due to its more focused kinetic energy.
> 
> Screw machine gunners... They are considerably less more and far machine guns than assault rifles... And it uses the same round as Galil ACE?
> 
> How does it save costs? It does not in the long run. Screw reducing costs by half in terms of cost of ammunition used in training and war...



You quite funny you know that. You just focus on 1 aspect and screw the rest of the problem. You even know what wil happen to the Army logistic and training if we are going to change now ? Even if we change now what can be certain that we can get them at sufficient level ? If a war broke out right in the middle of the re-arming process, what can we do ? Inferior and more expensive ? Where do you even get our Army ammunition supply cost stastics from ? You are going to give us a lot of big IF. And again with plenty of IF you present your own calculated solution. The army problems go beyond just a single round. Focus on 1 aspect is as easy as eating candy bar, but real world stuff deal way more than that. You can solve them all, sure speak up. You just take 1 aspect out then complaint and just turn over every single problemd, risks and uncertainty come after that for us to solve ..........Well even primary kids in VN can do that :v 

Go around and see some stuff, shall we ?

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## Viet

*McCain Pushing for More U.S. Naval Engagement with Vietnam*
By: Sam LaGrone
May 24, 2016 5:12 PM





Lt. (jg) Travis Harlow, training officer aboard the guided-missile destroyer USS Chung-Hoon (DDG-93), explains his job responsibilities to senior leaders from the Vietnam People’s Navy in 2013. US Navy Photo


The chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee is pushing for more interaction between the U.S. and Vietnamese navies, according to a copy of a May 20 letter to Vietnamese Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong obtained by USNI News.

In the letter, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) told Trong he was “committed to helping build the maritime capacity of the Vietnamese Coast Guard and Navy” and pushed to expand the sharing of maritime domain information with all South China Sea nations as part of the Maritime Security Initiative, unveiled by Secretary of Defense Ash Carter last month and pushed by McCain.

As part of the more than $425 million in MSI funds, the Pentagon committed to $1.8 million to assess Vietnam’s current set of capabilities and chart future needs for the Vietnamese Coast Guard and the Vietnam People’s Navy.

Ultimately the chief concern of both Hanoi and Washington is the rising naval power of China. Beijing has not only embarked on an intensive warship construction campaign but also built the quasi-military China Coast Guard into a force of more than 200 mostly former People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) vessels.

McCain also called for an increased bilateral cooperation between the VPN and the U.S. Navy by increasing port visits, inviting the Vietnam People’s Navy to future Rim of the Pacific international exercises off of Hawaii and more officer exchanges.





Members of the Vietnam People’s Navy depart the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain (DDG-56) in 2014. US Navy Photo


Over the last several years, the U.S. and the VPN have conducted limited Naval Engagement Activities (NEA) with mostly onshore training and brief at-sea periods, and the U.S. is looking to step up the engagement.

USNI News understands U.S. officials have offered Hanoi a plan for a regular series of bilateral naval exercises in which a U.S. ship would conduct a two-day port visit to Da Nang, two days of at-sea exercises and three days of in-port visits at Cam Ranh Bay.

The 2-2-3 plan has yet to be adopted by the Vietnamese. But the so-called ‘McCain Initiative’ – as it is known by U.S. officials in the region – would be the next step in improving cooperation between the navies. USNI News understands the first visit could happen later this year.

The letter to Trang, who McCain met with in Washington last year, came a week ahead of President Barack Obama’s state visit to Vietnam and his Monday announcement of the official lifting the U.S. arms embargo.

While the goal is increased military-to-military cooperation, McCain and Obama both also encouraged Vietnam to also improve its human rights record.

“As we continue to enhance our security partnership, the United States expects Vietnam to continue its progress on human rights and respect for civil society, including its respect for advocates of religious freedom, press freedom, and labor rights who seek to use peaceful means to build a strong and prosperous Vietnam,” McCain wrote.



*

MENU





© 2012-2016 U.S. NAVAL INSTITUTE*


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## bidonv

By:www.defensenews.com
*Vietnam May Request F-16s, P-3 Orions From US*


> TAIPEI, Taiwan — With the lifting of the US arms embargo to Vietnam, a US defense industry source indicates Hanoi is seeking to improve its air defense and maritime security capabilities with the procurement of F-16 fighter aircraft from the US Pentagon’s excess defense articles (EDA) program and refurbished P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft, armed with torpedoes.
> 
> The source also said Vietnam could seek US-made UAVs for maritime intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) missions.
> 
> Torpedoes were banned under the embargo, but now the Vietnamese want the same P-3 program the US sold to Taiwan, the source said. On the F-16 EDA, they want the same deal the Obama administration gave Indonesia.
> 
> Defense News has also acquired an unclassified defense industry briefing prepared by the US Pacific Command. According to the report, “Socialist Republic of Vietnam — Country Security Cooperation Plan,” the US Embassy in Hanoi “possesses a robust security cooperating program operating in accordance with US policy goals and interests to promote integration and access focused on key areas within the Vietnamese security architecture.”....................Read more


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## Viet

Interview with Russian Ambassador to Vietnam* Konstantin Vnukov* on the situation between the two countries Russia and Vietnam, economy, tourism, investment, security and stability in the South China Sea and Asia Pacfic.









*Now that Russia has ratified the free trade agreement between Vietnam and the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU), what are Moscow’s expectations?*

The priority for us now is for a speedy ratification of the agreement by all member countries, and for its entry into force. We hope that this will happen before the end of 2016, i.e. before other preferential trade agreements important for Vietnam, primarily with the European Union, as well as on the Trans-Pacific partnership (TPP) come into effect.


*Is there a conflict of interest between Vietnam’s FTA with the EAEU and its entry to the TPP?*

I think that a comprehensive answer to this question was given by Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev after his talks with the Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyễn Xuân Phúc on May 16 in Moscow. In his opinion, these partnerships are still evolving and it’s very important for us that both the FTA with the EAEU and the TPP are consistent with the rules of the World Trade Organization and contribute to strengthening the international trade regime.


*Are there any specific industries that will help Russia and Vietnam meet their $10 billion annual trade target?*

For starters, there is the auto industry. In March 2016 customs tariffs for the supply of cars from Russia to Vietnam were lowered. Together with this, Vietnam created favorable conditions for the creation of car assembly facilities with the participation of Russian companies such as Kamaz, Gaz and Vaz.

This month, at a meeting with the mayor of Hanoi, we discussed the details of a deal to supply Hanoi with 300 Gaz city buses that are, as noted by the head of the Vietnamese capital, “of a quality superior to Korean counterparts.”


*Besides oil production, where are the lucrative opportunities for Russian investors in Vietnam?*

Small and medium businesses can play a large role in increasing trade and investment cooperation with Vietnam.

There is already some progress in this area. Medipal Onko, a pharmaceutical company that is willing to export medicines to Vietnam, including cancer drugs, has opened a representative office in the country.

This year the administration of Ho Chi Minh City purchased video conferencing equipment manufactured by Spirit, a Russian company.

In late March, Tolyatti-based Sagama launched an automobile tire recycling plant near Hanoi. 


*And what is happening in the oil sector?*

Three Russian companies have been working in Vietnam for years: Zarubezhneft, Rosneft and Gazprom. They not only produce oil and gas, but also search for new forms of cooperation.

For example, Russia’s Gazprom Neft is looking to buy a stake in Vietnam's only refinery Zung Kuat, which is in need of capacity expansion and modernization. While the deal, as far as I know, has been postponed, the company plans to return to this issue after a public offering.

Another example is a joint project between Gazprom and PetroVietnam that involves the switching of municipal vehicles in Ho Chi Minh City to a new type of fuel that meets the highest modern environmental standards. Now, as far as I know, they are in the final stages of creating a joint venture.

Given the active work of PetroVietnam’s subsidiaries in the oil and gas fields of Russia, our cooperation with Vietnam in the energy sector, as emphasized by Dmitry Medvedev, “is unprecedented.” Medvedev noted how Russia and Vietnam have even exchanged oil fields.


*Despite the longstanding relationship between the two countries, why are there so few Russian investments in Vietnam?*

According to Vietnamese statistics, the accumulated Russian investments now amount to $2.1 billion and are present in 113 projects. Overall, it's not that small. Our investments in Vietnam are more than Germany’s and Italy’s combined. But it's not just about numbers. Statistics, as you know, are not always reliable.

Russia seeks to expand its investment presence in Vietnam, not only in quantitative but also qualitative terms. I am sure that we have all the possibilities.

During visit to Russia the new Prime Minister of Vietnam Nguyễn Xuân Phúc signed an agreement on creating a Russian-Vietnamese investment platform amounting to $500 million. Half of this will be injected by the Russian Direct Investment Fund and half by the Vietnam's State Investment Fund.

The platform intends to invest in companies and projects that strengthen bilateral trade and the development of medium and large Vietnamese enterprises in Russia.


*What is the scope for Vietnamese investments in Russia?*

Vietnam has a number of strong competitive advantages, especially in the field of agriculture and manufacturing. In Russia, these industries are now being actively developed and are open to foreign investment. I think that Vietnamese businessmen should pay close attention to them.

However, some steps have already been taken. One of the pioneers here was Vietnamese agricultural holding TH True Milk, which has already begun to establish dairy production in the Moscow and Kaluga Regions, and the total amount of declared investments is about $2.5 billion.

I can also advise businessmen from Vietnam to pay attention to Russian regions. There they can find land at a more reasonable price, and the production costs are lower than in Moscow. The main factor to look for is the commitment shown by the leadership in the regions in attracting foreign investors. Suffice to say that over the last year, the governors of St. Petersburg, Primorye, Moscow and Kaluga regions visited Vietnam. Many delegations from other Russian regions also visited the country.


*Is there any indication that after the closing of Egypt and Turkey for Russian tourists, part of the tourist traffic shifted to Vietnam?*

The number of Russian tourists here is growing significantly. For all of 2015, the number was 340,000. In January-April of this year it has already reached 144,000, which is 16 percent higher than during the same period last year.

It is difficult to say whether Vietnam can be seen as a full replacement for Turkish and Egyptian resorts. ‘All inclusive’ beach tours – the most sought after by Russians – are virtually absent in local hotels. And flights to Vietnam are longer and more expensive.

At the same time, Vietnam has a number of important benefits, including a visa-free regime for up to 15 days, lack of serious security problems and, of course, an always positive attitude of local residents towards Russians.

I want to note that, by cooperating with Vietnam in the field of tourism, we seek to establish the flow of tourists not only from Russia to Vietnam, but in the opposite direction as well. As you know, now our government pays great attention to the development of domestic and inbound tourism, and attracting foreign visitors to Russia.

This should be facilitated by the ‘Visit Russia’ tourist offices, one of which was recently opened in Hanoi. Its goal is to acquaint the people of Vietnam and other countries in the region with the tourism potential of our country. I am convinced that this undertaking has good prospects, given how quickly in Vietnam and other Southeast Asian countries, a growing middle class is willing to spend money on travel. People in this part of the world have an interest in Russia, almost from childhood.


*What joint steps can Russia and Vietnam take to ensure security and stability in the region?*

Russia and Vietnam are traditional partners for cooperation in the field of defense and security. Suffice it to say that at least two-thirds of weapons and military equipment of the Vietnam People's Army is produced in our country, and many experts were and are now undergoing training in Soviet and Russian universities.

Moreover, talking about our military-technical cooperation, we think not only about past but also about present and future. As we all know, the main topic for our military exports in recent years has been the upgrading of the Vietnamese Air Force and the creation of a submarine fleet.

We are interested in maintaining security and stability in the Asia-Pacific region, which occupies an increasingly important place in world politics and economics.

Here we have very specific economic interests, including mining projects, oil and gas and nuclear energy. Leading Russian companies are involved in these areas.

As for the situation in the South China Sea, I can only repeat Russia’s position that has been repeatedly expressed by the Russian leadership. Our country is interested in the settlement of disputes exclusively by peaceful means on the basis of equal dialogue between the parties involved and taking into account the universally recognized norms and principles of international law, including the relevant UN Convention of 1982. At the same time, we oppose the unnecessary politicization of the issues and the interference of third countries, the purpose of which, we think, is often to not resolve the existing differences, but pushing their own opportunistic geopolitical interests.


*Are there any difficulties in the Russia-Vietnam relationship? How serious is the problem with illegal Vietnamese migrants?
*
Relations between Russia and Vietnam, in my opinion, can be called exemplary. This is a very rare occasion when states have neither long-standing historical problems nor significant contradictions in the present. This is due, of course, not only to the legacy of a glorious past, but also to the great attention we now pay to the development of bilateral relations.

In the last fifteen years, exchanges of visits at the highest levels have been as intense as they were in the Soviet era. These meetings are not just symbolic. They allow very fast and efficient means to discuss all the complex issues and “push” bilateral matters ahead.

As for the temporary difficulties in the relationship, yes, we admit there are some, it’s normal.

Illegal migration has recently become an increasingly acute problem for our society and sometimes citizens of Vietnam are mentioned in this context. According to various estimates, there are between 25,000 and 100,000 Vietnamese people in Russia. Some of them have already become a part of the Russian society, making a significant contribution to the development of the economy, culture and education educations sector of the country. Others come to study or work in the country.

The most problematic is the category of labor migrants. Among them there are those who stay in Russia longer than the period of their visa, thus violating our laws. This, incidentally, is not a purely Russian story. There are illegal Vietnamese immigrants in a number of other countries including Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

We know that Vietnam attaches great importance to the protection of the rights of its compatriots abroad and makes all the necessary efforts to solve the existing problems in the spirit of our comprehensive strategic partnership. Relevant agencies of the two countries have started an intensive dialogue in the framework of specially established working groups on migration and temporary employment. I am sure that the results of this work will be able to create reliable mechanisms of control over migration flows from Vietnam to Russia and to ensure employment activities are within legal parameters.


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## Viet

Aerial Defence

while we are waiting for S-400, an unit of S-300 surface to air missile rolling into position, with advanced 96L6E acquisition radar that usually comes with S-400 missile defence system. can follow max. 100 targets within 300 km.

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## jhungary

Aqsuperman said:


> My mistake there :v Still, i consider the superior number of P-3 is a advantage. P-8 is not really a choice since we cant get our hand on it with the recent relation with US. Aiming for P-3 of countries that about to get the P-8 is more realostic
> 
> 
> 
> You quite funny you know that. You just focus on 1 aspect and screw the rest of the problem. You even know what wil happen to the Army logistic and training if we are going to change now ? Even if we change now what can be certain that we can get them at sufficient level ? If a war broke out right in the middle of the re-arming process, what can we do ? Inferior and more expensive ? Where do you even get our Army ammunition supply cost stastics from ? You are going to give us a lot of big IF. And again with plenty of IF you present your own calculated solution. The army problems go beyond just a single round. Focus on 1 aspect is as easy as eating candy bar, but real world stuff deal way more than that. You can solve them all, sure speak up. You just take 1 aspect out then complaint and just turn over every single problemd, risks and uncertainty come after that for us to solve ..........Well even primary kids in VN can do that :v
> 
> Go around and see some stuff, shall we ?



You may want some AP-3 or EP-3 second hand. US, Australia and Japan are all selling their EP-3, AP-3 stock and replacing them with P-8, I think Lockheed can still perform upgrade that could extend their service life for at least 11,000 hours (That's what they done to SK P-3C aircraft)

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## Nike

P8? Vietnam is even lacking in their basic MPA


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> P8? Vietnam is even lacking in their basic MPA



Nobody in Vietnam is thinking about getting the P-8. Its way expensive for Vietnam to begin with, the plane still has a number of issues that need to be resolved and anyway, US would not sell such an advance plane to Vietnam. It will either be the P-3 or the C-130 MPA version.

Vietnam already has the basic MPA, the CASA C-212-400 with the MSS 6000 maritime surveillance system and the DHC-6 400 series Twin Otter with the ELM-2022A radar capable of simultaneously scanning and tracking up to 256 targets at sea. Those MPA planes are small, but pack very nice avionics for maritime patrol.

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## Barmaley

Second (and fourth in general) 'Gepard' frigate for VN officially launched today.




sister ships.

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## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> I look forward to watching that episode. I really like Anthony Bourdain in general. The one problem is, I almost always get hungry while watching his show.
> 
> I like the way he samples the cuisine from various different countries.


yeah bro thanks to Anthony, more Viet foods such as this "bun cha" become polular to foreigners, and not only "pho" 

do you know according to a statistic (2014) there are over 8,900 Viet restos in the United States and the number grows and grows? I won´t wonder if we have now 10,000 restos alone in the US. same big number in other rest of the world. foods are more than foods. in Vietnam culture, they have a deep meaning. a way of life. how we see the world. heaven and earth.

http://www.voanews.com/content/vietnam-cuisine-more-popular-united-states/3338500.html

cooking "pho"

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## William Hung

Barmaley said:


> Second (and fourth in general) 'Gepard' frigate for VN officially launched today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sister ships.



Cannot see any torpedo launcher...


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> yeah bro thanks to Anthony, more Viet foods such as this "bun cha" become polular to foreigners, and not only "pho"
> 
> do you know according to a statistic (2014) there are over 8,900 Viet restos in the United States and the number grows and grows? I won´t wonder if we have now 10,000 restos alone in the US. same big number in other rest of the world. foods are more than foods. in Vietnam culture, they have a deep meaning. a way of life. how we see the world. heaven and earth.
> 
> http://www.voanews.com/content/vietnam-cuisine-more-popular-united-states/3338500.html
> 
> cooking "pho"



Nguy Vu talk show? He sings well too.


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## Skaði

Aqsuperman said:


> Aiming for P-3 of countries that about to get the P-8 is more realistic



This is a small list of nations. Most P-3 users that could get the P-8 don't have a need for a longer-ranged and more expensive platform. Australia and United States are nations currently replacing their P-3s with P-8s, and the UK is replacing their MPA with it as well.

One country that operates the P-3 and is seeking to replace them with the P-8 is my homeland, Norway who has a massive coastline (larger then the US', and 7th only to Russia and Canada and Island nations like Australia and Greenland) and host of islands that need to be patrolled and policed:






These aircraft are modified to operate in colder climates, but they've been deployed to East Africa too, so they're adept at handling the more tropical climates Vietnam has.































These are modernized P-3Ns that will become available in the coming years.

I believe it's more realistic to approach the US, rather then ex-P-3 users, as they've more to offer. Still, these aircraft, six total, are going to be on the market and it never hurts to explore your options.

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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...cheap or not cheap is not only the question you need to consider here. The other factor you should have in mind too is destruction power. A salvo of great caliber bullets on enemy soldiers make more fun, creating more impression on them than one of smaller caliber. Hiding behind vests and helmets won't help much.



That is what Americans thought over 50 years ago... They though they should stick with big caliber rifles for infantry and small caliber machineguns for fighters.



> Like everything in life you need to make compromise.


That is not a compromise, a compromise would be to choose a 7.62x54 which is in between 5.56x45 and 12.7x99...

Even North Korea is ahead of Vietnam which is replacing their AK-47 based rifles with AK-74 based rifles.



> Negev machine gun uses the same 7.62 caliber.


I feel sorry for your armed forces machine gunners as they will have to allocate more brainpower to adjusting their aim in accordance to wind and distance... If they had a 7.62x54 machine gun then they would only need to do that for 2000 meters...



> How about the Croatian Army?


How about inform yourself you slob? AK-47 did its job during Independence War, first replacement was to be an indigineous rifle that chambered 7.62x54 NATO during arms embargo which ended in 1998 in which indigineous rifle was rejected and goverment instead prefered FN FAL, but military budget cuts prevented replacement to a meaningful level.

Later on, special forces, airborne paratrooper unit, counter terrorist unit and SWAT converted to 5.56x45 while another rifle from another company was being developed.

That second indigineous rifle is now primary assault rifle of Croatian Arked Forces, first version of second indigineous was rejected while second version was accepted which is a bullpup 5.56x45mm VHS-2 which is contender to replace primary assault rifle of French Arked Forces which is FAMAS and is in final evaluvation with decision to be made at soonest in June this year, also there are rumors that it could also be primary assault rifle of Indian Armed Forces.

Croatia is primary user, Iraq bought a lot of VHS-2's as does Iraqi-Kurdistan which also.receives and buys VHS-2 rifles.



> Why does the Army of Finland use the same caliber as Vietnam?



You are cherry and straw picking at the same time, Finland? Are you serious? Yes, they have a rifle that is based on AK-47 and you believe that Finland's military prefere's? They don't, they were in process in converting to 5.56x45 which was postponed due to financial issues since the military is underfunded while Vietnam''s in comparison isn't. If Fins top military brass knew percentage of GDP Vietnam allocated for military then they would eat themselves up from jealousy.

@Aqsuperman

And you continue with speculations and assumptions, bravo.

Please pretend and assume I didn't consider what you are claiming I didn't consider and you kept spouting all the stuff that I already know for years you with child sized brain.

Go on, continue with speculation and assumption which is only thing you know to do when it involves me like you're chinese.


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## BoQ77

Did you guy think Vietnam never compare 7.62 x 39 and 5.56x45?






As you may know, at this moment, 

Vietnam regular troops, who are well trained using 7.62mm based rifles.
Vietnam local militia, who is poorer trained using 5.56mm M-16

Vietnam uses both size,

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## Carlosa

*As ties deepen, elite U.S., Vietnam forces eye possible opening*
By Phil Stewart

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ties-deepen-elite-u-vietnam-forces-eye-possible-022053375.html?ref=gs

TAMPA, Fla. (Reuters) - Special operations forces from the United States and Vietnam are signaling a readiness to start forging ties should their governments choose to do so, in what would be a major step in relations between militaries that were at war 4-1/2 decades ago. Rear Admiral Colin Kilrain, who leads U.S. Special Operations Forces in the Asia-Pacific region, told Reuters in an interview that he met the commander from Vietnam's elite forces on the sidelines of a conference in Tampa, Florida, this week.

"Both of us would like to deepen the relationship but we're also very mindful that we go at the pace of what our governments want to do," Kilrain said, disclosing the details of the meeting.

The talks, which lasted about half an hour on Wednesday, came two days after U.S. President Barack Obama ended the U.S. arms embargo on Vietnam during a visit to that country on Monday.

Human rights advocates reacted to Obama's decision with dismay, saying Washington's decision to end the embargo tossed away a critical lever it might have used to spur political reform in the Communist-ruled state.

Obama's trip to Vietnam, which borders China, underscored shared concerns about China's growing military clout as Beijing aggressively advances sovereignty claims to the South China Sea.

READY FOR NEXT STEPS

"We were both very encouraged by the positive meeting that President Obama had with the Vietnamese. And we wanted to go back and tell our chains of commands that ... we stand ready to take the next steps," Kilrain said.

Still, Kilrain was emphatic that the extent and pace of any such contacts would be decided by their governments.

"We will wait for positive signs from our own governments to move forward," he said.

The U.S. Navy has already taken important steps, carrying out four port visits last year, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet said. The head of U.S. military forces in the Asia-Pacific earlier signaled to Congress his desire to do more visits in 2016.

The United States has also contributed over $92 million since 1993 to help Vietnam address the threats posed by unexploded ordnance from the war and is supporting Vietnam's development of a peace keeping training center near Hanoi, the White House said.

Kilrain noted that when it came to kick-starting military ties, elite U.S. special operations forces, which include everything from Navy SEALs to the Army's elite Delta Force, are often some of the best options.

Green Berets, who specialize in irregular warfare, were active in the Vietnam conflict.

"For us, because we're light, we're small and we can move quickly, we're about re-establishing friendships and relationships," Kilrain said.

"And we're oftentimes the easiest ones to start with militarily. And I'm proud of that."

Although he declined to speculate on first steps with Vietnam, Kilrain acknowledged the process usually started slowly, with planning conferences to share information about how their militaries were organized and discussions on human rights.

"So it's somewhat benign and it's not necessarily classic military-type training," he said.

(Reporting by Phil Stewart; Editing by Peter Cooney)

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## Viet

*the major event of the year: Obama’s landmark Vietnam trip in photos*









US President Barack Obama walks down from his Air Force One at Noi Bai International Airport in Hanoi on May 22, 2016, starting his Vietnam trip. Photo: Ha Hai/Thanh Nien






Obama receives flowers from Tran My Linh, a 21-year-old of the University of Social Science and Humanities, Hanoi as he arrives at Noi Bai International Airport on May 22, 2016. Photo credit: Carlos Barria/Reuters






People gather along Do Duc Duc Street, Hanoi near the JW Marriott Hotel where Obama will stay. Photo: Le Nam/Thanh Nien






A young man in Hanoi carries a banner on Do Duc Duc Street. Photo: Le Nam/Thanh Nien






US President Barack Obama, with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang (2nd L), is presented a bouquet of flowers by Nguyen Phuong Linh, 8, upon arrival at the Presidential Palace prior to a welcoming ceremony in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Pete Souza/White House






US President Barack Obama walks with his Vietnamese counterpart Tran Dai Quang as they review a guard of honor during a welcoming ceremony at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Kham/AFP






US President Barack Obama (4th R) attends a bilateral meeting with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang (4th L) at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP






US President Barack Obama ducks down under a low beam as he descends a staircase with Vietnam’s National Assembly Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan during a tour to late President Ho Chi Minh’s stilt house inside the Presidential Palace in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Pete Souza/White House


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## Viet

US President Barack Obama and Vietnam's National Assembly Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan feed fish in a pond during a tour to late President Ho Chi Minh’s stilt house inside the Presidential Palace in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Carlos Barria/Reuters






US President Barack Obama and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang take part in a joint press conference at the International Convention Center in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. “The United States is fully lifting the ban on the sale of military equipment to Vietnam that has been in place for some fifty years,” Obama told the conference. Photo credit: Luong Thai Linh/AFP






Obama talks with performers at the conclusion of a state luncheon at the International Convention Center in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Pete Souza/White House






US President Barack Obama shakes hands with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc at the latter's cabinet office in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Thong Nhat/VNA






US President Barack Obama meets with Vietnam’s Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong at the party's Central Office in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP






US President Barack Obama and CNN's Anthony Bourdain have dinner at a bun cha restaurant in Hanoi's Hai Ba Trung District. Photo: Le Nam/Thanh Nien






Local residents take pictures as Obama leaves after having dinner at a bun cha restaurant in Hanoi on May 23, 2016. Photo credit: Ba Do/VnExpress






Obama delivers remarks at the National Convention Center in Hanoi on May 24, 2016. “On this visit, my heart has been touched by the kindness for which the Vietnamese people are known. In the many people who have been lining the streets, smiling and waving, I feel the friendship between our peoples,” he said. Photo: Truong Son/Thanh Nien


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## Viet

Obama waves to locals during a visit to a shopping district in Hanoi on May 24, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP






Obama walks down from his Air Force One at Tan Son Nhat International Airport in Ho Chi Minh City on May 24, 2016. Photo: Doc Lap/Thanh Nien






US President Barack Obama receives flowers as he is greeted by Nguyen Thi Quyet Tam (in yellow ao dai), chairwoman of Ho Chi Minh City’s People’s Council, at Tan Son Nhat International Airport in Ho Chi Minh City on May 24, 2016. Photo credit: Carlos Barria/Reuters






Locals line up the streets to greet Obama as his motorcade heads to Ngoc Hoang (Jade Emperor) Pagoda from Tan Son Nhat International Airport in Ho Chi Minh City on May 24, 2016. Photo credit: Zing






The big crowd stands near Ngoc Hoang Pagoda in Ho Chi Minh City's District 1 to catch a glimpse of Obama on his way to the pagoda. Photo credit: Zing






US President Barack Obama pays his respect with Abbot of Ngoc Hoang Pagoda Thich Minh Thong during a visit on May 24, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP






Obama looks at an exhibit as he tours through the Entrepreneur Demonstrations at DreamPlex in Ho Chi Minh City on May 24, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP






Obama speaks with entrepreneurs at DreamPlex in Ho Chi Minh City on May 24, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP


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## Viet

Obama speaks at the Young Southeast Asian Leaders Initiative town hall event in Ho Chi Minh City on May 25, 2016. He fielded questions on everything from rap and weed smoking to leadership and his good looks at the meeting. Photo credit:Christophe Archambault/AFP






A woman holds up a Vietnamese hat with Obama written on it as the US president speaks at a Young Southeast Asian Leaders Initiative town hall event in Ho Chi Minh City on May 25, 2016. Photo credit: Christophe Archambault/AFP






Suboi, a Vietnamese famous rapper, smiles after performing a verse to her song while asking Obama a question at the Young Southeast Asian Leaders Initiative town hall event in Ho Chi Minh City on May 25, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP






Obama (bottom R) shakes hands with members of the audience after speaking at the Young Southeast Asian Leaders Initiative town hall event in Ho Chi Minh City on May 25, 2016. Photo credit: Jim Watson/AFP






A man holds up a sign as people line up the streets in Ho Chi Minh City to catch a glimpse of Obama on his way to the airport at the end of his Vietnam trip on May 25, 2016. Photo credit: Christophe Archambault/AFP






A man holds up a portrait of Obama as people line up the streets in Ho Chi Minh City to catch a glimpse of the US leader on his way to the airport at the end of his Vietnam trip on May 25, 2016. Photo credit: Christophe Archambault/AFP







Women and children hold Vietnamese and US flags and pictures of Obama as people line up the streets in Ho Chi Minh City to catch a glimpse of the US leader on his way to the airport at the end of his Vietnam trip on May 25, 2016. Photo credit: Christophe Archambault/AFP






Obama waves as he leaves Ho Chi Minh City for Japan to attend his final G7 summit. Photo: Doc Lap/Thanh Nien

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## Viet

Following a government decision, all heavy units of maritime surveillance and coast guard vessels are equipped with machine guns.







14,5 mm machine gun











*



*



23 mm machine gun
*










*

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## Viet

a new type of vessels for the Coast Guard:
500CV class, produced by domestic shipyard X51. length 38.2 m, wide 7.8 m, speed 10 knots


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## Viet

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/china-faces-headaches-fro/2821700.html

*At a stroke, the U.S. and Vietnam have complicated the strategic outlook for China*

Posted 27 May 2016 13:20





_U.S. President Barack Obama (L) attends a press conference with Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang at the Presidential 

_
HONG KONG/BEIJING: At a stroke, the U.S. and Vietnam have complicated the strategic outlook for China over the disputed South China Sea.

As U.S. President Barack Obama marked one of his last trips to Asia by the historic lifting of Washington's arms embargo on Vietnam, he repeatedly insisted it was not directed at Beijing.

And yet regional military sources and security analysts say China will face short and longer term strategic headaches from the fully normalised relationship between former enemies in Hanoi and Washington.

Operationally, China faces the short-term prospect of Vietnam obtaining U.S.-sourced radars and sensors, surveillance planes and drones to better monitor and target Chinese forces, the analysts say.

In the longer term, the move makes Hanoi a key player in Obama's strategic pivot to East Asia. U.S. arms manufacturers will compete with Russia for big-ticket weapons sales to Vietnam. The U.S. Navy may get a long-held wish to use Cam Ranh Bay, the best natural harbour in the South China Sea, military sources say.

Then there is the prospect of political cooperation and greater intelligence sharing over China's assertiveness, according to diplomatic sources, even if Vietnam shuns any formal steps towards a military alliance.

Such moves dovetail with the goals of Vietnam's military strategists who have told Reuters they want to discreetly raise the costs on China's rapidly modernising forces from attacking Vietnam again.

Vietnam understands that a future conflict with their giant neighbour would be vastly more difficult than the bloody land battles on their northern border that rumbled through the 1980s, or the sea battle over the Spratlys in 1988.


*RELYING ON DIPLOMACY*

Chinese official reaction has so far been muted.

But Beijing is paying close attention to Vietnam's acquisition of modern weaponry and deployments in the South China Sea, said Ruan Zongze, a researcher at the China Institute of International Studies, a think tank linked to the Foreign Ministry.

"It's not impossible that this will then impact the territorial issue between China and Vietnam," said Ruan, a former Chinese diplomat.

Zhang Baohui, a mainland security expert at Hong Kong's Lingnan University, said he believed Vietnamese planners knew they could never prevail against the modern Chinese military, so they had to rely on diplomacy to keep stable relations with Beijing.

Zhang said he expected this to continue, despite the Obama visit, saying it was the "cheapest form of defence".

"Vietnam is working the U.S. into an enhanced deterrence strategy," he said. "To enhance its relations with China, they have to play the U.S. card," he said.


*CAM RANH BAY*

U.S. naval officials say they are keen to gradually increase ship visits, but are aware of Vietnamese concerns over pushing China too hard.

When in March Vietnamese officials announced the opening of a new international port in Cam Ranh to foreign navies, China was one of the first militaries to get a formal invite, according to reports in Vietnam's military press.

U.S. port calls are currently long-planned formal affairs. But U.S. military officials say a servicing agreement is one long term option to allow U.S. warships to make routine visits to Cam Ranh Bay.

Security analysts say even a small increase in ship visits, for example, would complicate China's operations in the South China Sea, now centred on dual-use facilities being built on seven artificial islands in the Spratlys archipelago.

China claims 80 percent of the South China Sea as its territory, while Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Brunei also have overlapping claims across one of the world's most important shipping lanes.

Lifting the embargo not only offers an opportunity for U.S. arms makers in Vietnam but elsewhere in rapidly developing Southeast as well, said a military advisor in Thailand.

"The U.S. sees opportunity and demand opening up in various other countries, such as Laos and Cambodia, which use weapons from Russia and China," said Panitan Wattanayagorn, an adviser to Thailand's Defence Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwon.

"Their economies are expanding, but they still have old weapons so there is an opportunity."

(Reporting by Greg Torode and Megha Rajagopalan. Editing by Bill Tarrant.)


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> And you continue with speculations and assumptions, bravo.
> 
> Please pretend and assume I didn't consider what you are claiming I didn't consider and you kept spouting all the stuff that I already know for years you with child sized brain.
> 
> Go on, continue with speculation and assumption which is only thing you know to do when it involves me like you're chinese.



Lol then what do you have BESIDE assumption and speculation, you even shot any round from a QBZ rifle yet ? You dont have the slightest idea about how an army training and logictics operate plus the costs for them yet you think your demands is feasible without any risks and uncertainty? You not even offer any solutions but keep pushing the same old song about "this round is better, your army is cheap, chinese will shot your *** up at 1000 miles away, blah blah blah" ........and as usual, when you got nothing left to say then the only thing left is insult. Arguing with you like arguing with a prepschool kid holding poops in his hand and start throwing when he is clueless. Have fun with you dream about being an "adviser" that no one want to hire or even to hear :v 

A lot of visits lately........but in the end what can we expect ?

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## KAL-EL

Viet said:


> yeah bro thanks to Anthony, more Viet foods such as this "bun cha" become polular to foreigners, and not only "pho"
> 
> do you know according to a statistic (2014) there are over 8,900 Viet restos in the United States and the number grows and grows? I won´t wonder if we have now 10,000 restos alone in the US. same big number in other rest of the world. foods are more than foods. in Vietnam culture, they have a deep meaning. a way of life. how we see the world. heaven and earth.
> 
> http://www.voanews.com/content/vietnam-cuisine-more-popular-united-states/3338500.html
> 
> cooking "pho"




No, I honestly didn't know that. I know Vietnamese cuisine has been gaining rise and popularity here in the last few years especially.

There are two Vietnamese restaurants in my local neighborhood.

Chinese and Japanese food still share more popularity here, but Vietnamese food is definitely catching up.

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## Viet

*'Lead from front,' urges first Vietnamese-American U.S. general*
May 23, 2016

By  David Vergun





_Defense Secretary Ash Carter talks with U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Viet Luong, commander of Train, Advise, Assist Command South, as he arrives on Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan, Feb. 22, 2014. Carter received updates from leaders and met with service members...
_

WASHINGTON (Army News Service) -- Viet X. Luong aspired to join an elite South Vietnamese fighting unit when he was a young boy.

He didn't succeed at doing that, but he did become a U.S. Soldier and he is now a brigadier general -- the first U.S. general officer of Vietnamese descent.

But long before joining the Army, his life took some unusual and unanticipated twists and turns.

In 1968, the North Vietnamese army and Viet Cong launched the Tet Offensive, attacking cities and hamlets throughout South Vietnam, including Saigon, the capital, where Luong grew up.

Luong recalls the day artillery rounds landed. He was in the back of the house, gazing at the koi, swimming lazily in their pond. That's when a round landed with a loud blast on his house, he related.

Through the thick smoke and fire he heard his mother, frantically trying to round up her six kids to get them out of the house.

At the time, his father, a South Vietnamese marine officer, was somewhere in the countryside fighting the war with his unit, he said.

Luong remembers his teenage uncles coming to help get them to safety. They all made it out.

At the time, Luong was just 2 and a half years old, but that near-death experience was so traumatic and vivid, he said, that it left an indelible memory.






_Refugees from South Vietnam debark U.S. Marine Corps Sikorsky CH-53 Sea Stallion helicopters on the flight deck of the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS Hancock (CVA-19) during Operation Frequent Wind, before the fall of Saigon, April 29, 1975._


*LIFE IN SAIGON*

Other than that experience, life in Saigon was relatively peaceful and fairly sheltered, he said.

"It was a very nice place to live," Luong said. "You could go out at night and do things like go to the movies or visit the ice cream shops."

Luong said he enjoyed watching Bruce Lee movies and another one of his favorites was "The Magnificent Seven."

The movies were subtitled or dubbed in Vietnamese, which he said helped because he didn't speak a word of English.

While Luong enjoyed the tranquility of life in the city, he said the family often wondered whether or not their father would come home from the many battles he fought.

To Luong, his father was his hero -- still is -- he said, and from a young age, he said he wanted to grow up and be just like him.

But first, he had to finish public school and grow up.

Luong said he loved nature and the outdoors so he joined the Boy Scouts. Unfortunately, they were precluded from going on campouts and wilderness hikes because it was simply too dangerous to venture outside of Saigon.

Those peaceful days would soon come to an end.


*ESCAPE FROM VIETNAM*

April 29, 1975 is a day then-9-year-old Luong said he remembers -- vividly. American forces had pulled out of South Vietnam and the enemy was closing in on Saigon.

Luong's family fled to the Tan Son Nhut Airport in Saigon, even as bombs were dropping all around them.

Fortunately, Luong, his parents and his seven sisters were rescued from the airport by U.S. Marines in a CH-53 Sea Stallion helicopter, and flown to a World War II-era aircraft carrier off the coast in the South China Sea.

When they landed, he said he asked his father, "Where are we?"

His father answered, "Aboard the USS Hancock."

"What does this mean," he asked.

His father replied, "It means nothing in the world can harm you now."

The next day, Saigon fell and South Vietnam was no more. Luong was about to embark on the next chapter of his life.


*ARKANSAS TO LOS ANGELES*

The first place the Luong family went to in the United States was the large refugee camp, established at Fort Chaffee, Arkansas, he said.

It was here that his parents had to make an important decision, he said: Where would they live?

Luong's dad had served and fought long before the American troop buildup in South Vietnam. He had been a French commando in the early 1950s, when the country was known as French Indochina.

"When we were at the refugee camp we had some very generous offers from the French government because they knew my dad has served with them," he said. "They offered us jobs and housing and opportunities in France."

The U.S. didn't have the same generous offer, he said.

However, some former U.S. Marine Corps advisors "wanted to sponsor us here."

Luong's father made a "bold decision," Luong said. Despite offers from France, he chose to live in Los Angeles.

The reason, Luong said, is that the U.S. Marine Corps had given his father training at Quantico, Virginia, as well as Camp Pendleton, California, which is near Los Angeles.

"He thought L.A. provided the melting pot and also the opportunities for upward mobility and progression," he said.

But upward mobility and progression was slow for the family, which settled down in a poor neighborhood near Echo Park.

"We were so poor," Luong said. "Both of my parents worked their fingers to the bone.

"It was rough place in many ways," he added, "but we were really embraced by the community there. Most of my friends growing up were Hispanic. We were pretty much enculturated into the community and learned to appreciate that."

When not in school learning to speak English and other subjects, he said he enjoyed playing sports for his pastime. He also learned to play the violin and the guitar.

But Luong said he still had the dream of joining the military -- either the Marine Corps or an Army paratrooper or Ranger unit as an officer.

"Although my father was in the marine corps, some of my uncles were Vietnamese rangers and paratroopers," so serving in any of those branches "was my goal," he said.

Before becoming an officer, Luong had to get a degree, so he recalled visiting the University of Southern California for an orientation. One of the speakers was from the ROTC unit there and he offered Luong a four-year scholarship. That sealed the deal.

"I thought that would alleviate a lot of financial strains on my parents," he said. "It's a great way to serve as well as attend college."


*CHALLENGES*

Luong's first assignment was at Fort Carson, Colorado, where he served as a platoon leader with 1st Battalion, 8th Infantry Regiment.

Although Luong described himself as "very nimble and athletic growing up," he said being in the infantry is very physically demanding.

"I felt I always had to exert myself to perform at the same level as some of my peers who were physically bigger and stronger," he admitted.

"I relied on resiliency and having a strong-minded will to finish anything that's physical. Mental things are not a big deal for me. The physical part I had to work really hard at," he said.






_Then-Col. Viet Luong, along with key leaders from the 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division, visit Combat Outpost Dand Patan in Khowst province, Afghanistan._


His second challenge was working hard to learn English. "When I was a lieutenant, I'd only been in the U.S. about a decade speaking the language, so I felt I always had to work extra to be academically ready," he said.

Although Vietnamese was Luong's first language, he progressed to where over time, he said he could speak, read and write English better than Vietnamese. But he's still a fluent speaker in Vietnamese and says that's helpful with social engagements in the Washington, D.C. area, where many Vietnamese call home.

Luong currently hangs his hat in the Pentagon as Joint and Integration, Force Development, Army G-8, so for now, Washington is home.

Luong's next assignment in 1993 after Fort Carson was Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where he served as a company commander in the 82nd Airborne Division, another physically challenging but motivating experience, he said.

That assignment, he said, was probably the highlight of his career, mainly because going airborne "made my dad so proud."

When friends in Los Angeles stopped by to chat with his father, he said he'd hear them ask about the daughter who got a PhD, or the other daughter who had passed the bar exam.

But then, "my father would say to them, 'oh, but you should hear about my son, who's a captain in the 82nd Airborne.'"


*LEADERSHIP*

Luong said there's really no secret to being a great or even successful leader.

"Lead from the front, share the same hardships as your Soldiers and take care of your troopers," is his guiding principle.

Leading from the front means being as physically tough as the Soldiers, he said, adding that leadership also takes a certain amount of mental acumen, competence and commitment.

Besides that, "give clear and concise guidance," he added.

Being a good leader also means upholding Army values -- loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity and personal courage -- he said, summarizing all of them in one word: "character."

Doing all that requires a lot of dedication and hard work, he said.

The good news, Luong said, is that a good leader isn't necessarily born that way. "All of that can be cultivated through applying yourself and through self-development."






_Lt. Gen. Mark A. Milley (left), commanding general of III Corps and Fort Hood, recites the oath of commissioned officers with Brig. Gen. Viet Luong, deputy commanding general for maneuver, during a promotion ceremony at Cooper Field, on Fort Hood..._


*GOOD AMBASSADOR*

Soldiers can expect assignments in far-flung places as partnering with allies becomes more and more important, Luong said. As such, each Soldier is in a way an ambassador of the U.S. when overseas.

Luong recalled being stationed in Italy with the 173rd Airborne Brigade where he chose to live off-post among the Italians.

"We used sign language and broken Italian to communicate," he said. "I made good friends and became part of the community."

Being friendly "spreads goodwill and how you act is perceived as representing Americans," he noted.

Luong recently visited his alma mater, USC, where he said faculty have become much more embracing of military than when he attended from 1983 to 1987.

They've done a lot to increase veteran enrollment and alleviate some of the costs, since it's a private university, he said. While he was recently there, the president of the university hosted dinner for ROTC cadets, "so it has changed for the better," Luong said. Some of that goodwill may have been spurred following the 9/11 attacks, he thought.


*FRIENDLY & RELAXED*

The frenetic pace that is the Pentagon is legendary, and Luong admits that people think he's intense. "They think I'm serious all the time, but I'm not."

He wanted colleagues to know he has a lighter side as well, that he tries to cultivate.

"Most people don't know that besides playing the violin and guitar, I like to sing," he said, noting his favorite band is the Eagles and when he hears it, he often sings the lyrics to "Take it Easy," "Hotel California," and other hits.

He also likes to play video games or basketball with his kids, he said.

Luong and his wife Kim have three children: a daughter, 21, who's a junior at Baylor University; a son, who's a freshman at the University of Virginia; and, a 15-year-old boy who's in high school.


*ASIA-PACIFIC HERITAGE*

This month happens to be Asia-Pacific Heritage Month and since Luong is such a high-profile member of that group, he said he gets invited to a lot of speaking engagements as well as interviews like this one.

Right now, he said he's on tap for five speaking engagements.

"I tell folks all the time I'm intensely proud of my heritage, but at the end of the day, I'm just prouder to be American without the hyphenation," he said.

"It's about the nation and its ideals, because without that you can have all those attributes of hard work, commitment to family, and still not be successful," he said.

People in his former homeland have those characteristics, but they're not nearly as successful as Americans, he pointed out.

"Some of my Soldiers in combat made the ultimate sacrifice so we can have these freedoms and successes," he added.

"Many don't realize that we lost 12 Vietnamese-American Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan," he said. "The first Special Forces Soldier killed in Iraq was a Vietnamese-American. We have scores of wounded veterans. As far as being fairly new to this country, when it comes to defending our nation, we're not taking a backseat to anyone."

https://www.army.mil/article/168134/_Lead_from_front___urges_first_Vietnamese_American_U_S__general/


----------



## Viet

on a patrol ship


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## yugocrosrb95

Aqsuperman said:


> Lol then what do you have BESIDE assumption and speculation,


You should be asking that yourself rather than trying to convince yourself thus lying to yourself as you claim that I am doing the thing you're doing. You aren't aware that you are showcasing your lack of knowledge.



> you even shot any round from a QBZ rifle yet ?


What is your point? No I didn't and that doesn't change anything as I haven't fired a firearm which also doesn't change anything since through information you can.comprehend and visualize and understand.

QBZ is a bullpup, firing mechanism is in the back and trigger is in the front thus firing mechanism has more weight than conventional assault rifle while in overall it considerably reduces weight. It is like putting engine in the back of a car as it reduces necessary space thus weight.

If QBZ has similar direction as VHS then it will have a heavier barrel that flexing/shaking less during full automatic fire thus greater accuracy. The round that QBZ fires from available information has far less friction since if I remember correctly is full metal jacket free and Chinese managed to design a rifle that reliably feeds the round.

5.8mm is more powerful and larger and with bullet that is full ketal jacket free which reduces friction thus less resistance which results in higher velocity, also it reduces wearing of the barrel and less shaking/vibration of the barrel too.



> You dont have the slightest idea about how an army training and logictics operate plus the costs for them yet you think your demands is feasible without any risks and uncertainty?


I don't. <- Its a lie!



> You not even offer any solutions but keep pushing the same old song about "this round is better, your army is cheap, chinese will shot your *** up at 1000 miles away, blah blah blah" ........and as usual, when you got nothing left to say then the only thing left is insult. Arguing with you like arguing with a prepschool kid holding poops in his hand and start throwing when he is clueless. Have fun with you dream about being an "adviser" that no one want to hire or even to hear :v



Believe that if that makes you happy... I should offer solutions tzat already exists? I might as well offer a means of easing transportation, I present you the wheel or the boat. Lol

Having a greater range is advantage which are trying to downplay. Its like trying to send someone with a submachine gun against a trooper with assault rifle.

Similar situation is 9x19 vs 7.62x25...


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## BoQ77

Navy Seal and Army Delta Force would be joint-trained with Vietnam special force ??
It's definitely benefit for US

Chinese ship in Sanya with some kind of protect net, maybe for anti frogmen ... LOL 






Carlosa said:


> *As ties deepen, elite U.S., Vietnam forces eye possible opening*
> By Phil Stewart
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/ties-deepen-elite-u-vietnam-forces-eye-possible-022053375.html?ref=gs
> 
> TAMPA, Fla. (Reuters) - Special operations forces from the United States and Vietnam are signaling a readiness to start forging ties should their governments choose to do so, in what would be a major step in relations between militaries that were at war 4-1/2 decades ago. Rear Admiral Colin Kilrain, who leads U.S. Special Operations Forces in the Asia-Pacific region, told Reuters in an interview that he met the commander from Vietnam's elite forces on the sidelines of a conference in Tampa, Florida, this week.
> 
> "Both of us would like to deepen the relationship but we're also very mindful that we go at the pace of what our governments want to do," Kilrain said, disclosing the details of the meeting.
> 
> The talks, which lasted about half an hour on Wednesday, came two days after U.S. President Barack Obama ended the U.S. arms embargo on Vietnam during a visit to that country on Monday.
> 
> Human rights advocates reacted to Obama's decision with dismay, saying Washington's decision to end the embargo tossed away a critical lever it might have used to spur political reform in the Communist-ruled state.
> 
> Obama's trip to Vietnam, which borders China, underscored shared concerns about China's growing military clout as Beijing aggressively advances sovereignty claims to the South China Sea.
> 
> READY FOR NEXT STEPS
> 
> "We were both very encouraged by the positive meeting that President Obama had with the Vietnamese. And we wanted to go back and tell our chains of commands that ... we stand ready to take the next steps," Kilrain said.
> 
> Still, Kilrain was emphatic that the extent and pace of any such contacts would be decided by their governments.
> 
> "We will wait for positive signs from our own governments to move forward," he said.
> 
> The U.S. Navy has already taken important steps, carrying out four port visits last year, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet said. The head of U.S. military forces in the Asia-Pacific earlier signaled to Congress his desire to do more visits in 2016.
> 
> The United States has also contributed over $92 million since 1993 to help Vietnam address the threats posed by unexploded ordnance from the war and is supporting Vietnam's development of a peace keeping training center near Hanoi, the White House said.
> 
> Kilrain noted that when it came to kick-starting military ties, elite U.S. special operations forces, which include everything from Navy SEALs to the Army's elite Delta Force, are often some of the best options.
> 
> Green Berets, who specialize in irregular warfare, were active in the Vietnam conflict.
> 
> "For us, because we're light, we're small and we can move quickly, we're about re-establishing friendships and relationships," Kilrain said.
> 
> "And we're oftentimes the easiest ones to start with militarily. And I'm proud of that."
> 
> Although he declined to speculate on first steps with Vietnam, Kilrain acknowledged the process usually started slowly, with planning conferences to share information about how their militaries were organized and discussions on human rights.
> 
> "So it's somewhat benign and it's not necessarily classic military-type training," he said.
> 
> (Reporting by Phil Stewart; Editing by Peter Cooney)


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## Viet

http://pubint.ic.llnwd.net/stream/pubint_wdde


JAMES DAWSON _•_ 7 HOURS AGO



Sen. Tom Carper (D) meeting with the vice chairman of the Vietnamese National Assembly
COURTESTY OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT


Delaware's senior senator is applauding President Obama lifting an arms embargo with Vietnam, saying it will fully normalize relations and be an economic win for both countries.

Sen. Tom Carper (D), who served three tours with the U.S. Navy during the Vietnam War, traveled with Obama to the southeast Asian country last week for the announcement.

He says it will help forge strong ties between countries that were entrenched in an exceedingly violent war four decades ago and lead to more economic opportunities.

In return for a $16 billion deal for military planes and aircraft engines, he says the Vietnamese will begin lowering trade tariffs that have choked American exports out of their domestic market for years.

“That trade imbalance and the [lifting of the arms] embargo, plus the adoption of the [Transpacific Partnership] will equalize trading and be a much better arrangement for us going forward, as well as for the Vietnamese,” Carper said.

Human rights organizations say the embargo should stay in place until Vietnam puts on free and open elections, ceases violent crackdowns on dissidents and becomes less of a police state.

Carper says he spoke with one dissident who says lifting the embargo will build stronger ties with America, ultimately hastening reform.

“He thinks in the end it’ll be a positive thing. Not everybody sees it that way, but I think in this case the president, he voted his hopes, maybe not his fears and I’m hopeful he’s right,” he said.

China, Vietnam’s largest trading partner, publicly applauded the lifting of the embargo, though it’s unclear if it might lead to backroom diplomatic headaches.

Analysts say the move could create further tensions in the South China Sea, which Beijing has fiercely defended as its own territory amid other claims by Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia.


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## William Hung

> In return for a $16 billion deal for military planes and aircraft engines, he says the Vietnamese will begin lowering trade tariffs that have choked American exports out of their domestic market for years.



Oh look, Sen. Tom Carper has leaked the $16 billion military deal.

$16 billion = 

48 EDA F-16VU (VN-US aniversary edition)
24 F/A-18V
4 EA-18V Growler (VN lite edition)
6 EDA P-3C
3 C-130J

Delivery: 2018-2025

@Carlosa you are welcome.


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> You should be asking that yourself rather than trying to convince yourself thus lying to yourself as you claim that I am doing the thing you're doing. You aren't aware that you are showcasing your lack of knowledge.
> 
> 
> What is your point? No I didn't and that doesn't change anything as I haven't fired a firearm which also doesn't change anything since through information you can comprehend and visualize.
> 
> QBZ is a bullpup, firing mechanism is in the back and trigger is in the front thus firing mechanism has more weight than conventional assault rifle while in overall it considerably reduces weight. It is like putting engine in the back of a car as it reduces necessary space thus weight.
> 
> If QBZ has similar direction as VHS then it will have a heavier barrel that flexing/shaking less during full automatic fire thus greater accuracy. The round that QBZ fires from available information has far less friction since if I remember correctly is full metal jacket free and Chinese managed to design a rifle that reliably feeds the round.
> 
> 5.8mm is more powerful and larger and with bullet that is full ketal jacket free which reduces friction thus less resistance which results in higher velocity, also it reduces wearing of the barrel and less shaking/vibration of the barrel too.
> 
> 
> I don't. <- Its a lie!
> 
> 
> 
> Believe that if that makes you happy... I should offer solutions tzat already exists? I might as well offer a means of easing transportation, I present you the wheel or the boat. Lol
> 
> Having a greater range is advantage which are trying to downplay. Its like trying to send someone with a submachine gun against a trooper with assault rifle.
> 
> Similar situation is 9x19 vs 7.62x25...



As usual, all the important issues remains UNANSWERED. All you got are silly to outright stupid comparsion and babbling irrelevant stuff. You brain operates just like the prepschool kid : Everything is easy because you dont know half the problems or risks involed in the process of re-arming. And again picking up small part in my line and claiming that im showing my lack of knowledge when your express complete ignorance to the REAL life problems and events: Is the entire Geogria armory depot smart when they change their entire army to M4 with new ammunition just to switch back to AK when the 2008 war broke out ? Your solution for the cost and risks associated ? Solution that exists ? Bother to name a few FEASIBLE ones that not going to lead to certain disaster ? Or all you ever got is "I dont know, its a lie, use a boat or wheel or something, all i care is about the round", yeah sure easy as hell when appy that mess up thinking of your into the complex military supply networks and training right ? :v. LOL you have any idea how stupid, pathetic and ignorant you sound at that part ? Greater range ? LOL then why dont every army in the world just train sniper only ? They can engage far better than nomarl soldier ? You think the world is flat and every terrain is advantage for the side that have longer range ? SMG vs AR is dumb ? Wow i guess some Special Force around the world better listen to you and drop their SMG from the arsenal since it "unwise and downplay". 

You dont know anything remotely necessary to say anything about the army yet confidently claim another army is cheap just because we dont use the round you like ? "Comprehend and visualize." ? There is another phrase for that issue which is LACK OF REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE. I only stay a limited time in an army facility due to my university policy but everything you even speak about is just a mess of nonsense. "MG gunner waste more brain power"..........Wow that is something REALLY REAL. 

This is just a waste of time when Im arguing with a kid on the forum that dont know crap. Always just want the round while claiming what he dont not even experienced yet. Meh i guesss i will stop with you. Its not like you can even influence any guy around the globe that still using the 7.62mm M43 to change them simply because if your idea sound credible and feasible, you wont even spending time in this forum preaching about the round. Later

8005 ready for action.


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> I think he made mistake with military planes ( maybe about Boeing 737 Max and P&W engines for Vietjet Air )
> 
> Btw, at that time, Chief of Vietnam MoD went to Laos or Cambodia ...



You mean the +11 billion Vietjet boeing civilian deal? no, that is a side deal between two private companies which VN govt should not need to give concession or anything back to the US.

This military deal, is offered by the US and VN govt will give tariff/tax concession in return. (in the case of the other Vietjet purchase, it should be the US side to give something in return, not VN)


p.s. I want to ask your opinion: I estimated and add up the cost for that list, but it should cost under $10 billion total. Do you have any idea what else could be included in the $16 billion deal?

(lau lau tha qua bom cho noi hai)


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## MacanJawa

wooooww 16 bilion arms deal? thats huuugeee
vietnam army will be no 1 in asean

Reactions: Like Like:
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## William Hung

MacanJawa said:


> wooooww 16 bilion arms deal? thats huuugeee
> vietnam army will be no 1 in asean



It is not a one time deal bro, the purchase will be spread out across a span of 8-9 years, if they follow the proposal.

So if we calculate, its actually quite small:

$16 billion divided by 8 years = ~ $2 billion per years. (its still less than the Indonesian annual procurement budget right?)

Thats similar to what VN had previously been spending in the last few years (for example, VN once paid over $2 billion for the Kilo subs, this also doesn’t include the money paid for the Su-30 + other equipments purchased on that same year).


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Oh look, Sen. Tom Carper has leaked the $16 billion military deal.
> 
> $16 billion =
> 
> 48 EDA F-16VU (VN-US aniversary edition)
> 24 F/A-18V
> 4 EA-18V Growler (VN lite edition)
> 6 EDA P-3C
> 3 C-130J
> 
> Delivery: 2018-2025
> 
> @Carlosa you are welcome.



That sounds quite good, but definitely have to be other items in that deal, that can't be 16 billion.

A key point would also be what missiles will be used in those planes. If VN uses all American missiles, that will be quite a logistical issue. I don't know but I would use Python (already being used for Spyder) and Meteor (should be ok to use, its supposed to be interfaced with all American fighters). For anti ship missiles it would be good to interface those jets with Russian anti ship missiles. The harpoon is not very impressive at all.

6 P-3 C is not much at all and I don't see the Viking there. 3 C-130J is not much either.

The Growler is the big equalizer here.


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## BoQ77

William Hung said:


> You mean the +11 billion Vietjet boeing civilian deal? no, that is a side deal between two private companies which VN govt should not need to give concession or anything back to the US.
> 
> This military deal, is offered by the US and VN govt will give tariff/tax concession in return. (in the case of the other Vietjet purchase, it should be the US side to give something in return, not VN)
> 
> 
> p.s. I want to ask your opinion: I estimated and add up the cost for that list, but it should cost under $10 billion total. Do you have any idea what else could be included in the $16 billion deal?
> 
> (lau lau tha qua bom cho noi hai)



I am ok for :
- 400 SM6 Sam and AshM cost over 1 billion
they could be blind launched from ship or coast and later guided by AWACs or F35 to ship or aircraft at the range over 400 km.
So I want to add 3 AWACs and 24x F35

SM6 in Da Nang could dominate any aircraft take off operations in Hainan island.


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> It is not a one time deal bro, the purchase will be spread out across a span of 8-9 years, if they follow the proposal.
> 
> So if we calculate, its actually quite small:
> 
> $16 billion divided by 8 years = ~ $2 billion per years. (its still less than the Indonesian annual procurement budget right?)
> 
> Thats similar to what VN had previously been spending in the last few years (for example, VN once paid over $2 billion for the Kilo subs, this also doesn’t include the money paid for the Su-30 + other equipments purchased on that same year).



Not quite small at all. VN is dedicating 1.6 billion a year for purchases (average) and that's will all the suppliers, so to add 2 billion a year with a new supplier, that's one hell of a lot.



BoQ77 said:


> I am ok for :
> - 400 SM6 Sam and AshM cost over 1 billion
> they could be blind launched from ship or coast and later guided by AWACs or F35 to ship or aircraft at the range over 400 km.
> So I want to add 3 AWACs and 24x F35



I understand is raining in Hanoi right? I think you caught up a cold and you are having some fever, ha ha, SM6 and F-35 for Vietnam? I don't see it anytime soon bro, maybe after a while if the relationship matures a lot, but I don't see it anytime soon. How about AEGIs Ashore? That would be a nice dream.

Actually, if its true that Russia refuses to sell S-400 to Vietnam, then AEGIS Ashore would do the trick.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Not quite small at all. VN is dedicating 1.6 billion a year for purchases (average) and that's will all the suppliers, so to add 2 billion a year with a new supplier, that's one hell of a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand is raining in Hanoi right? I think you caught up a cold and you are having some fever, ha ha, SM6 and F-35 for Vietnam? I don't see it anytime soon bro, maybe after a while if the relationship matures a lot, but I don't see it anytime soon. How about AEGIs Ashore? That would be a nice dream.
> 
> Actually, if its true that Russia refuses to sell S-400 to Vietnam, then AEGIS Ashore would do the trick.



AWACS isnt far from our reach. The SM6 is the most suitable to Vietnam, even more flexible than Yakhont and S400
Anyway, that is my wish list.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> AWACS isnt far from our reach. The SM6 is the most suitable to Vietnam, even more flexible than Yakhont and S400
> Anyway, that is my wish list.



I agree with you, that would also be my wish list. AWACS should be ok and should come soon (C-295). AEGIS ashore? That's another story. Look at all the fuss that Russia is doing because of the AEGIS Ashore site in Rumania. I don't see USA releasing something like that to Vietnam unless Vietnam becomes a very senior partner, like a strategic partner such as Japan or NATO countries.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> I agree with you, that would also be my wish list. AWACS should be ok and should come soon (C-295). AEGIS ashore? That's another story. Look at all the fuss that Russia is doing because of the AEGIS Ashore site in Rumania. I don't see USA releasing something like that to Vietnam unless Vietnam becomes a very senior partner, like a strategic partner such as Japan or NATO countries.



Yeah, that would save much on anti air destroyers, and has anti ballistic capability too. Small warhead but high kinetic energy with Mach 3.5 make it comparable to any other subsonic AShM in lethality and it has longer range.

SM6, SM6... Without it, big fleet of P3 is meaningless.

Other thing is submarine, but US subs arent suitable to our taste.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Not quite small at all. VN is dedicating 1.6 billion a year for purchases (average) and that's will all the suppliers, so to add 2 billion a year with a new supplier, that's one hell of a lot.



Well I actually don’t know how to make an accurate price estimation, I just calculate based on previous deals like the Indonesian EDA F-16 deal, Australian Super Hornet/Growler deal, etc. + extra for inflation, armaments, logistic support, training, etc. and it came out about ~ $9 billion.

Also, we must remember that if these purchase become true, then other plans will be frozen, e.g. most had already said the Su-30MK2 procurements is finished, no more coming, so that $1.6 billion budget is offsetted.

Yeah the Growler is a game changer. Russia doesn’t have any equivalent for export other than the Su-34 that can perform similar tasks. But probably the logic for the EA-18 lite is that China might be able to acquire the Su-34 themself or Russia might leak some data to China which would not be the case for the EA-18.

Anyway, the the F/A-18V + EA-18V package is supposedly said to be specially configured for the SCS and it will strike fear to the PLAN SCS fleet to such an extend that they will start converting to Christianity for divine protection, turning China the most Christian country in this century.

I have no idea why the S-3 Viking was not included, I like the S-3 too and think it makes perfect sense for VN. Maybe the S-3 can only be a viable choice if SK procures them but we aren’t sure if that will happen.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Yeah, that would save much on anti air destroyers, and has anti ballistic capability too. Small warhead but high kinetic energy with Mach 3.5 make it comparable to any other subsonic AShM in lethality and it has longer range.
> 
> SM6, SM6... Without it, big fleet of P3 is meaningless.
> 
> Other thing is submarine, but US subs arent suitable to our taste.



An AEGIS ASHORE battery is about 1 billion usd, that's quite ok. India is spending 6 billion for 5 S-400 batteries. VN can afford such a system and if you look at the map of the area in Europe covered by AEGIS ASHORE, its huge. With such a system, VN can cover not just Hainan island but the south of China. The issue is whether USA would sell that to VN, I think not.



William Hung said:


> Well I actually don’t know how to make an accurate price estimation, I just calculate based on previous deals like the Indonesian EDA F-16 deal, Australian Super Hornet/Growler deal, etc. + extra for inflation, armaments, logistic support, training, etc. and it came out about ~ $9 billion.
> 
> Also, we must remember that if these purchase become true, then other plans will be frozen, e.g. most had already said the Su-30MK2 procurements is finished, no more coming, so that $1.6 billion budget is offsetted.
> 
> Yeah the Growler is a game changer. Russia doesn’t have any equivalent for export other than the Su-34 that can perform similar tasks. But probably the logic for the EA-18 lite is that China might be able to acquire the Su-34 themself or Russia might leak some data to China which would not be the case for the EA-18.
> 
> Anyway, the the F/A-18V + EA-18V package is supposedly said to be specially configured for the SCS and it will strike fear to the PLAN SCS fleet to such an extend that they will start converting to Christianity for divine protection, turning China the most Christian country in this century.
> 
> I have no idea why the S-3 Viking was not included, I like the S-3 too and think it makes perfect sense for VN. Maybe the S-3 can only be a viable choice if SK procures them but we aren’t sure if that will happen.



Well, the F-16s for Indonesia were 31 million per plane, 750 million for 24 planes, so that's very cheap.

The key here is what avionics are included in those F-18s.
SU-34 is a fighter bomber, very good as a bomber, but I'm not aware of an ECM version of it. The Russians have a ECM version of the SU-24 (which was used against the Donald Cook in the black sea). It would make sense to have a version of the SU-34 set up that way in the future.

If USA releases the right tech for both versions of the F-18, then that's indeed a game changer in SCS.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> An AEGIS ASHORE battery is about 1 billion usd, that's quite ok. India is spending 6 billion for 5 S-400 batteries. VN can afford such a system and if you look at the map of the area in Europe covered by AEGIS ASHORE, its huge. With such a system, VN can cover not just Hainan island but the south of China. The issue is whether USA would sell that to VN, I think not.



When Vietnam get Grad BM-21, they asked Soviet Union to design the Grad-P
when Vietnam learn about Aegis Ashore and can touch them, they would ask US to break it apart and provide the air platform with suitable radar to guide any single SM-6 to target, the launcher platform must have mobile capability.

So actually, what I need is not Aegis Ashore, but its variant


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> I am ok for :
> - 400 SM6 Sam and AshM cost over 1 billion
> they could be blind launched from ship or coast and later guided by AWACs or F35 to ship or aircraft at the range over 400 km.
> So I want to add 3 AWACs and 24x F35
> 
> SM6 in Da Nang could dominate any aircraft take off operations in Hainan island.



Wow you are very optimistic about US-VN relationship, and 400 SM6 is very expensive. I think VN will likely buy Israeli missile instead of SM6. Barak-8ER can reach Hainan too.

Hmmm do you think US will trust VN enough to sell F-35? You seem to prefer F-35 over Pak-Fa. I think AEW (C-295 based) will likely come by 2025.

I think this is the most realistic case for SCS based on what been leaked:

F/A-18V + EA-18V + C-295AEW + C-130 tanker.

I have no idea what the missiles is planned.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> When Vietnam get Grad BM-21, they asked Soviet Union to design the Grad-P
> when Vietnam learn about Aegis Ashore and can touch them, they would ask US to break it apart and provide the air platform with suitable radar to guide any single SM-6 to target, the launcher platform must have mobile capability.



Yeah, that makes sense. The key to AEGIS ASHORE is the X band radar (very long range radar), that's what provides the early warning of incoming ballistic missiles so that the battery can launch interceptor missiles on time. THAADS also uses the same radar. The Israelis also bought the same radar for their Arrow 3 system.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, that makes sense. The key to AEGIS ASHORE is the X band radar (very long range radar), that's what provides the early warning of incoming ballistic missiles so that the battery can launch interceptor missiles on time. THAADS also uses the same radar. The Israelis also bought the same radar for their Arrow 3 system.



The US has already run tests with the SM missile and the F-35 fighter-bomber, in which an SM missile has been fired from a ship but with no target identified. An F-35 in flight took control of the missile in midair, and then as the missile proceeded downrange, handed control of that missile to another F-35. Thus you could imagine a small, hardened launcher on an island popping up a missile and flinging it way into China, where it gets vectored on to target by a stealthy F-35.

The ability of the SM-6 to perform many roles — shooting down airborne targets, hitting ships, attacking deep inland, and hitting ballistic missiles — means that it could be the perfect way to turn that first island chain into a major headache for Chinese military planners.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Well, the F-16s for Indonesia were 31 million per plane, 750 million for 24 planes, so that's very cheap.
> 
> The key here is what avionics are included in those F-18s.
> SU-34 is a fighter bomber, very good as a bomber, but I'm not aware of an ECM version of it. The Russians have a ECM version of the SU-24 (which was used against the Donald Cook in the black sea). It would make sense to have a version of the SU-34 set up that way in the future.
> 
> If USA releases the right tech for both versions of the F-18, then that's indeed a game changer in SCS.



Yeah 750 million for 24 planes and it includes spares, logistics support, etc, its quite a deal. I am only guessing the VN is only interested in similar version.

As for the Su-34, I have read that it has quite a strong EW suite and supposedly had proven itself in the Georgia conflict. The main problem I think is that China may acquire them in the future (like how they could purchase the Su-35) and I think they are smart enough to analyse its electronic warfare suite.


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## Aqsuperman

The idea right now is not about the money. Its about our relation. Only close allies of the US can get many sophiscated anti-aircraft and radar technology. In some case even only on the condition that their "adviser" will be deployed along with it (which will not suit us very well). Best case scenarios in the foreseeable future will be a limited purchase in transportation aircraft and if lucky will be ASW equipments. Some moderate update for the ground force can also be expected, especially with the US-made weapon. Beyond that is a no-go right now. Our "human right issue" will never ever suit the level of the US that allow fighter jet and high perfomace missiles sales so dont bother guessing at the moment. We can hope for other countries with simliar lind of developed technology though. UAV is also bright these kind of days.

Checking out a UAV


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> The idea right now is not about the money. Its about our relation. Only close allies of the US can get many sophiscated anti-aircraft and radar technology. In some case even only on the condition that their "adviser" will be deployed along with it (which will not suit us very well). Best case scenarios in the foreseeable future will be a limited purchase in transportation aircraft and if lucky will be ASW equipments. Some moderate update for the ground force can also be expected, especially with the US-made weapon. Beyond that is a no-go right now. Our "human right issue" will never ever suit the level of the US that allow fighter jet and high perfomace missiles sales so dont bother guessing at the moment. We can hope for other countries with simliar lind of developed technology though. UAV is also bright these kind of days.
> 
> Checking out a UAV



US defense companies already sending their proposals and interests, which include fighters and ASW platforms.

One western defense source already told a press that a US defense company could make a “big announcement” sometime this year. Will find that article when I’m on my laptop.


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Yeah 750 million for 24 planes and it includes spares, logistics support, etc, its quite a deal. I am only guessing the VN is only interested in similar version.
> 
> As for the Su-34, I have read that it has quite a strong EW suite and supposedly had proven itself in the Georgia conflict. The main problem I think is that China may acquire them in the future (like how they could purchase the Su-35) and I think they are smart enough to analyse its electronic warfare suite.



As I understand the SU-34 uses ECM pods, which are quite good, but is not quite like a ECM dedicated plane such as the Growler, so if the Growler variant that goes to VN happens to be quite good, then VN will have the advantage.

Myself, I'm a bit surprised that USA is willing to go as far as supplying F-18s and Growlers to VN. That tells me that there is a lot going on that we don't know anything about. And for VN to also go so far knowing that there will be a chinese response, it must mean that they have very good reasons to go in that direction, like maybe the fact that either Russia is not willing to sell some hardware or just the fact that they sell everything to China anyway and VN is forced to go in a different direction. This is all really very significant.


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## Jason Zhao

Minjitta said:


> Containment will burn China from inside out.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> As I understand the SU-34 uses ECM pods, which are quite good, but is not quite like a ECM dedicated plane such as the Prowler, so if the Prowler variant that goes to VN happens to be quite good, then VN will have the advantage.
> 
> Myself, I'm a bit surprised that USA is willing to go as far as supplying F-18s and Prowlers to VN. That tells me that there is a lot going on that we don't know anything about. And for VN to also go so far knowing that there will be a chinese response, it must mean that they have very good reasons to go in that direction, like maybe the fact that either Russia is not willing to sell some hardware or just the fact that they sell everything to China anyway and VN is force to go in a different direction. This is all really very significant.



Yea I remembered reading something like that about the Su-34. Plus, I suspect the operating cost of the Su-34 would be higher than the Growler, especially when the Su-34 can only purchased in very limited number and another naval strike platform needs to be purchased along with it.

Anyway here is a quote from a former US diplomat:



> "News reports indicate that Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and General Dynamics are already lining up, with *some major announcements expected before the end of this year*," Jatras, a former foreign policy adviser to Republican members of the US Senate, noted.



I remembered there was another subscription article talking about a possible announcement more detailed but I can’t access those right now cos Im not on my computer. I will give a proper reply another time.



Jason Zhao said:


>



Hi friend, long time no see. I remember you are a Chinese journalist right?

You are very welcome here my friend but if there are any comments that you are not happy about, I recommend you to just ignore it, or report it or open a new thread to talk about it. We are trying to keep this thread on topic. Thanks friend.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> The US has already run tests with the SM missile and the F-35 fighter-bomber, in which an SM missile has been fired from a ship but with no target identified. An F-35 in flight took control of the missile in midair, and then as the missile proceeded downrange, handed control of that missile to another F-35. Thus you could imagine a small, hardened launcher on an island popping up a missile and flinging it way into China, where it gets vectored on to target by a stealthy F-35.
> 
> The ability of the SM-6 to perform many roles — shooting down airborne targets, hitting ships, attacking deep inland, and hitting ballistic missiles — means that it could be the perfect way to turn that first island chain into a major headache for Chinese military planners.



Yes, I was talking about AEGIS ASHORE which is strictly anti ballistic using SM-3 and relies only on the X band radar. SM-3 intercepts only on the upper atmosphere (high altitude targets only, mid course phase intersection) while SM-6 only does terminal phase interception for ballistic missiles as well as anti cruise missile / anti aircraft interception.

SM-6 only works in AEGIS ships, there is no land version of it. The only land based AEGIS is AEGIS ASHORE, but AEGIS ASHORE only works with SM-3 missiles.

If AEGIS ASHORE were to expand to include SM-6, that would be one very complete system, one hell of a system to have. I guess US has not done such a complete land system because they already use Patriot for the same role as SM-6, but Patriot is not very good.


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## Aqsuperman

Until things got signed and deliverance on the way, there is little thing we can say for sure. Not to mention the complex relation about military customers and specialize training that differ from us greatly, top of the line equipments like new generation aircraft and missiles from the US will be really really really hard to get to us. Even the Sigma deal with so much publicity and talking ends up with nothing so i think we should keep expectation low. I do hope a lot from European supplier though 

...................Something i found on the net :v


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Yes, I was talking about AEGIS ASHORE which is strictly anti ballistic using SM-3 and relies only on the X band radar. SM-3 intercepts only on the upper atmosphere (high altitude targets only, mid course phase intersection) while SM-6 only does terminal phase interception for ballistic missiles as well as anti cruise missile / anti aircraft interception.
> 
> SM-6 only works in AEGIS ships, there is no land version of it. The only land based AEGIS is AEGIS ASHORE, but AEGIS ASHORE only works with SM-3 missiles.
> 
> If AEGIS ASHORE were to expand to include SM-6, that would be one very complete system, one hell of a system to have. I guess US has not done such a complete land system because they already use Patriot for the same role as SM-6, but Patriot is not very good.


Sm6 is enough, I focus on the ability to guide SM6 launched without target by E2C/D or F35 to target. As previous post, they said even a lonely launcher in a isolated island could launch some Sm6 and later be guided by Awacs or F35

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Sm6 is enough, I focus on the ability to guide SM6 launched without target by E2C/D or F35 to target. As previous post, they said even a lonely launcher in a isolated island could launch some Sm6 and later be guided by Awacs or F35



Yes, that's a very good capability. VN could use the data from a C-295 AWACS to guide a SM-6 missile to a target.

Well, if USA will really sell F-18s and Prowlers to VN, then an E-2 C could be an option too, the D version may be asking too much I think.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's a very good capability. VN could use the data from a C-295 AWACS to guide a SM-6 missile to a target.
> 
> Well, if USA will really sell F-18s and Prowlers to VN, then an E-2 C could be an option too, the D version may be asking too much I think.



Small correction: its Growler not Prowler.


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Small correction: its Growler not Prowler.



Right, thank you.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Right, thank you.



So I did some reading on the Super Hornet and Growler and could see how it has advantages over the alternative options, particularly for the SCS. Also I’ve just read a few thing about Boeing wanting to keep that production line active, it made more sense. But I’m off to sleep now, will post another time.


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> So I did some reading on the Super Hornet and Growler and could see how it has advantages over the alternative options, particularly for the SCS. Also I’ve just read a few thing about Boeing wanting to keep that production line active, it made more sense. But I’m off to sleep now, will post another time.



Yes, both Boing and Lockheed are quite desperate to keep the F-16 and F-18 production lines open and they've been pitching those planes to India including local production, which is extremely unlikely, so they really need a new customer right away.

The F-18 and the Growler is what the US Navy has to deal with the chinese navy, chinese air defense, the chinese Sukhois, etc, etc, so it makes sense that they've been fined tuned to deal with the same threat that Vietnam faces and they actually depend on the Growler to clear the way for the F-18 and the F-35 to penetrate chinese defenses, otherwise those two would be in trouble, particularly if facing the SU-35, so in my view, the Growler is the key.

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## Carlosa

*Russia’s Pacific Pivot: The Moscow-Beijing Shadow Boxing Continues*
*http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-pacific-pivot-the-moscow-beijing-shadow-boxing-16372?ref=yfp*







Squeezed in Europe by U.S-led sanctions and robust NATO reactions in the aftermath of the annexation of Crimea, Russia is now finding itself in a prime position to exploit the unfolding geopolitical dramas stirred up by China in East and Southeast Asia. Moscow has proactively demonstrated its determination to play a leading role in shaping the outcome of the highly explosive regional conflicts, at the expense of Beijing and potentially Washington as well.

Until recently, President Vladimir Putin’s strategic priorities had heavily favored Europe and the Middle East, culminating in his reckless actions in destabilizing Ukraine, and his wholesale political, diplomatic, and military backing of Syria’s Assad regime. Asia Pacific has always been an important component of the Kremlin’s geopolitical calculation, but due to Russia’s multi-layered economic and strategic interests with regional states at rivalry with each other, it had been relatively content to adopt a balanced approach to various hot-button issues. Russia’s general tendency has been not to articulate positions on territorial disputes and to refrain from active association with one side or the other, thus leaving China and the U.S. to play the dominant roles in deciding the outcome of the region’s many conflicts.

That Russian approach changed in late April when Russian and Chinese Foreign Ministers, Sergei Lavrov and Wang Yi, issued an unprecedented joint statement in Beijing, voicing—among other things—common objection to the U.S. role in settling the South China Sea disputes, thereby breaking the Kremlin’s pattern of avoiding joint positions with Beijing on China’s various territorial issues.

But Beijing’s giddiness over this new Russian partnership in its crusade against U.S. involvement in the South China Sea disputes, and the dismay felt by some of China’s old foes and Russia’s traditional friends in the Asia Pacific region, such as Vietnam, proved short-lived. Between May 19 and May 20, Mr. Putin held a party for the leaders of the ASEAN member states at his favorite resort in Sochi, Russia. Hailed by TASS as “the biggest international event in Russia in 2016,” the Russia-ASEAN summit was aimed directly at China’s increasing economic and strategic dominance in Southeast Asia, and most astonishingly, siding unequivocally with the ASEAN nations against China’s position in the heated South China Sea disputes.

The Sochi Declaration is decidedly anti-China in its wording, containing almost identical positions to those steadfastly held by ASEAN nations and the United States, such as that they (i.e., Russia and ASEAN nations) resolve to “ensure maritime security and safety, freedom of navigation and overflight and unimpeded commerce; promote self-restraint, non-use of force or the threat to use force and the resolution of dispute through peaceful means in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law.”

After delivering such a broadside against China on the South China Sea dispute, Mr. Putin also spoke triumphantly of Russia’s agreements with ASEAN nations to import Russian energy resources, let Russia build nuclear power plants, construct railroads, and operate the GLONASS satellite positioning system in the ASEAN region, all of which have been China’s economic and technological priorities. Mr. Putin then ebulliently told reporters that “there has not been a single disagreement (among the participants of the Russia-ASEAN Summit).”

China should also be further agonized by the seemingly inevitable rapprochement between Moscow and Tokyo, as both Mr. Putin and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe are getting closer than at any time since the end of World War II to reaching an official agreement on the Northern Territories dispute.

On the Korean Peninsula, the Kremlin seems determined to use all of its diplomatic muscle and political capital on both Pyongyang and Seoul to exert more and more influence, especially to extend the Trans-Siberian Railway, which has already reached inside North Korea, all the way to South Korea, thus connecting Western Europe to the far corner of East Asia.

Russia’s active posture in Asia Pacific is also welcome news to some of Moscow’s traditional friends that are also China’s regional adversaries, especially Vietnam and India, which—in order to counter China—remain two of the world’s largest importers of Russian weapons, from nuclear and conventional submarines, aircraft carriers, to advanced combat aircraft and air defense missile systems.

Some nations caught in the midst of the China-U.S. crossfire are also relieved to find an active Russia as a new go-to safe place in Asia Pacific. Prime Minister Hun Sen of Cambodia, long agonized by acting as a scorned Beijing puppet within the brotherly ASEAN community, eagerly asked Mr. Putin while in Sochi to renew Moscow’s erstwhile strategic interest and heavy investment in his country’s reconstruction begun in the 1980s in the immediate aftermath of the overthrow of the murderous Khmer Rouge regime of Pol Pot.

All in all, Russia’s gain in Asia Pacific is China’s loss. The decades-old Moscow-Beijing shadow boxing continues.

_This story originally appeared in on the Hoover Institution’s Military History in the News Channel._

_Image: U.S. Navy via Wikimedia_

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## Viet

BRADLEY PENISTON | DEFENSE ONE | MAY 24, 2016 |

*Defense Secretary: Wider U.S.-Vietnam Military Relations Not ‘Directed’ at China*





MASS COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST 2ND CLASS ROADELL HICKMAN/NAVY FILE PHOTO


ABOARD A U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT — Lifting the U.S. arms embargo for Vietnam will lead to warmer ties between the two countries’ militaries, including maritime cooperation in the contested South China Sea, U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter said Monday. But Carter and President Barack Obama, who is visiting Vietnam, insisted the move was not directed at China, which is locked in a dispute with Hanoi and other neighbors over ownership of islands throughout the sea.

“The decision to lift the ban was not based on China or any other considerations,” Obama said at a press conference in Hanoi on Monday. “It was based on our desire to complete what has been a lengthy process of moving towards normalization with Vietnam.”

While Carter echoed Obama, saying the move to sell arms to Vietnam was not aimed at Beijing, he said “there’s no question that China’s actions there, particularly those over the past year, have heightened concern in the region, and that’s another factor that causes everyone to want to work with us.”

“In terms of its wider regional meaning, what it is is a reflection of the fact that more and more countries in the region are coming to the United States to do more and more with us because of their general concern with the security environment,” Carter told reporters en route to New Haven, Conn., where he will watch the commissioning of Yale’s first graduating ROTC class since the 1970s.

Deepening U.S.-Vietnamese military cooperation is part of a larger trend under Obama of improving bilateral relations with Pacific Rim countries, Carter said.

Washington has increasingly been leaning on Hanoi to counter Beijing’s military buildup.Earlier this morning, Obama announced that the U.S. will end a decades-long embargo on the sales of lethal arms to Vietnam.

“We're going to continue to engage in the case-by-case evaluations of these sales,” Obama said. “But what we do not have is a ban that's based on an ideological division between our two countries, because we think, at this stage, both sides have established a level of trust and cooperation, including between our militaries, that is reflective of common interests and mutual respect.”

A vestige of the Cold War, the embargo had been prolonged because of Vietnam’s human-rights record, U.S. officials have said over the years.

But more recently, the _New York Times_ reported, “administration officials had hinted that the ban could be removed partly in response to China's buildup in the South China Sea. But Mr. Obama portrayed the decision as part of the long process of normalizing relations between the two countries after the Vietnam War."

The U.S. and Vietnam normalized diplomatic related about two decades ago, but military-to-military relations between the two countries renewed with a 2011 memorandum of understanding that described five kinds of defense cooperation: high-level dialogues; maritime security; search-and-rescue; humanitarian assistance and disaster relief; and peacekeeping.

The Pentagon has been seeking greater access to Cam Ranh Bay, a deepwater port that was a U.S. Navy base during the Vietnam war. In 2013, then-Defense Secretary Leon Panetta became the highest ranking American official since President Lyndon Johnson to travel to Cam Ranh Bay. There, Panetta visited the Navy supply ship Richard Byrd. It was part of a series of moves to open local ports and bases to U.S. military access, in effect surrounding the southern entrance of the South China Sea.

And what type of military equipment does Hanoi need? 

Maritime patrol and submarine-hunting aircraft, fighter jets and helicopters, _Defense News_ reports.

Last summer, Carter and Vietnamese Defense Minister Phung Quang Thanh signed an agreement for “greater operational cooperation.” During that visit, Carter became one of the first Americans to visit Vietnam’s Haiphong Harbor since the U.S. mined it decades ago.

_Ben Watson and Marcus Weisgerber contributed to this report._


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## cnleio

2013 in Beibu Gulf

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## Viet

Defence

*Manohar Parrikar to take along defence industry delegation to Vietnam with aim to boost military relations*
By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | 28 May, 2016, 02:26 hrs IST







US President Barak Obama's visit to Vietnam , India is sending a high-level defence industry delegation to the strategically-located neighbour of China .

The industry delegation — representing most major Indian arms companies — will accompany defence minister Manohar Parrikar to Vietnam early next month.

The visit comes even as India is looking at increasing its military engagement with the nation to counter an increasing Chinese footprint in the Indian Ocean that is supported by the People's Liberation Army's naval base at Hainan island, located adjacent to Vietnam.

Officials have told et that the defence ministry is in the process of selecting the industry delegation that will look at joint development and production orders from Vietnam that already has a commonality of military platforms with India, most of them of Russian origin, including submarines and frigates.

India has identified Vietnam as a nation to which arms exports can be made freely, even for cutting-edge systems like warship destroying Brahmos missile. This comes as Chinese arms companies increase their presence in India's immediate neighbourhood, including sales of submarines to Pakistan and military systems to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. While the official delegation is being firmed up, it could include upwards of 15 private sector representatives, including executives from L&T, Tata and Reliance Defence, besides participation of public sector units like Brahmos. The final selection is to be made by Parrikar who will also be visiting Singapore for the Shangri La dialogue as part of his overseas tour.

Defence analysts say that there is a case for increased exports to Vietnam that would boost the Indian industry. "The MoD is finally using defence sales as an instrument of regional diplomacy with the proposed export of four naval patrol vessels from GRSE (Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers) to Vietnam. 

The Brahmos could present itself as another viable export product. Such cases when approved will bolster the business cases under the Make in India campaign," Ankur Gupta of EY India told ET. India's defence exports remain minuscule but have shot up exponentially over the past two years.

This has been spurred by the policy changes that makes it easier to export military stores and equipment and doing away with a provision that demanded multiple assurances by foreign governments even for the sale of components and parts by Indian entities. India also has a defence export strategy that looks at diplomacy as a major tool for exports, including the granting of line of credit to friendly foreign nations for purchase of military equipment.

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## Viet

Arriving Japan for a 3 day visit. at the invitation of Japan´s govenment, the man on a highspeed rail, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc was scheduled to meet with the leaders of G7 countries. Although Phuc hasn´t as the tall stature as the former PM Dung, I think, he makes a good job so far. a series of agreements were signed with Japan. Shinzo Abe states he wants to re-visit Vietnam again soon.

- Japan proivdes ODA loans worth a total of 166 billion JPY (1.5 billion USD) for the urban railway No1 in Ho Chi Minh City, the Thai Binh thermoelectricity plant; the second phase of Ho Chi Minh City’s water environment improvement work. The fifth document is a stock purchase agreement between the Vietnam Airlines and Japan’s ANA Holdings Inc.

- Japan continues supporting Vietnam’s Industrialisation Strategy

- Acceleration of big projects on infrastructure, including the North-South Highway and the Ninh Thuan 2 *Nuclear Power Plant*.

- measures to promote the cooperation in trade and hi-tech agriculture, and create conditions for each other’s agri-products to enter the other’s market. agreements on enhancing cooperation in health, the training of human resources and Japan’s reception of Vietnamese trainees, continuing to implement the *Vietnam-Japan University*, tourism and people-to-people exchanges.

- non-refundable aid worth 300 million JPY (2.5 million USD) to assist Vietnam in dealing with drought and salt water intrusion. with Vietnam to seek medium and long term solutions to those problems, adding that Japan is ready to provide official development assistance capital to build dams and reservoirs based on specific requests from Vietnam.

- In the immediate future, Japan will send JICA’s experts to conduct surveys under the Water Management Project in Ben Tre province.

- Discussing the current security situation of both countries in the South and East China Sea.

- Japan coordinates with Vietnam in the preparation for the APEC Year in 2017.

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## Viet

*Japan, Vietnam agree to boost defense cooperation*


8:22 pm, May 29, 2016

Jiji Press TOKYO (Jiji Press) — Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, agreed on Saturday to strengthen their countries’ defense cooperation and exchanges in view of China’s moves to expand its military presence in the South China Sea.

At their meeting in Tokyo, Abe conveyed to Phuc Japan’s readiness to help enhance maritime security capabilities of Vietnam, which is in a territorial dispute with China in the South China Sea.

Specifically, Abe showed Tokyo’s intention to accelerate research on a plan to provide* a newly built patrol ship* to Vietnam.

“Vietnam will continue to be an important partner of Japan,” Abe said at a joint press conference with Phuc after the meeting.

Elsewhere at the bilateral summit, Abe announced Japan’s decision to extend about ¥90 billion in low-interest loans for an urban railway project in Ho Chi Minh City.

Phuc expressed support for Japan’s plan to make $200 billion in infrastructure investments in developing countries over the next five years.

The two leaders met after the Group of Seven major countries held an outreach session with leaders of seven developing countries, including Vietnam, in the Ise-Shima area in Mie Prefecture on Friday as part of the two-day G-7 summit through the same day.

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## Viet

With the normalisation of our relationship to America, and in this aspect, as well, to America close allies, I think if our shipyards increase cooperations with partners and friends in Japan and Korea, we can build big warships, too. the biggest ever built container ships in Vietnam. 87,000 tons, 240 m length, 38 m wide, diesel propulsion engine made in Korea, build by Hyundai-Vinashin Shipyard Co. Ltd, Ninh Phuoc (Vietnam).

*"Tzoumaz", "Diavolezza" and "Bregaglia" *

for a swiss transport company.

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## Carlosa

*Arms Embargo Lift Also Means More Regular U.S. Military Visits To Vietnam*
JACKIE NORTHAM
http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...s-more-regular-u-s-military-visits-to-vietnam





i
President Barack Obama walks with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang as they review a guard of honor during a welcoming ceremony at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi on May 23.

AFP/AFP/Getty Images
President Obama's decision to lift the arms embargo against Vietnam was about much more than selling weapons. It was about sending a message to China.

Not only may Vietnam begin buying American ships and surveillance equipment, it could also begin hosting regular visits by U.S. military units, including U.S. Navy warships at Cam Ranh Bay. Such trips would put American sailors square into waters that China is claiming it controls, making clear the U.S. rejects those claims and reassuring China's nervous neighbors in the region — or so Washington hopes.

"It is important for us to maintain the freedom of navigation and the governance of international norms and rules and law that have helped to create prosperity and promoted commerce and peace and security in this region," President Obama said.

The U.S. engaged in large military operations at Cam Ranh Bay during the Vietnam War more than four decades ago. Giving U.S. ships more regular access into the area may stir up ghosts in Vietnam of that conflict, but the presence of the American warships — which have already visited Vietnamese ports in recent years — could help soothe concern over China's muscle-flexing in the region.




i
Troopers of the First Brigade of the U.S. 101st Airborne Division arrived at Cam Ranh Bay on July 29, 1965.

AP
China has been trying to exert sovereignty over the South China Sea, a territory that is rich in oil and gas, and fish, and through which more than $5 trillion worth of global trades passes each year. China lays claim to a number of islands and recently has been building artificial islands out of reefs and atolls, turning them into military outposts complete with ports, radar facilities and landing strips.

The U.S. maintains the South China Sea is an international waterway, where ships can pass freely and unimpeded. To that end, it's carried out naval and air operations to challenge China's territorial claims.

Anthony Nelson, director of the U.S.-ASEAN Business Council, says China's aggressive behavior really changes the dynamic in the region.

"We've seen a real change in the security environment in the region with China's rise, and I think the U.S. has seen that Vietnam is one of the countries that looks at the region and sees the U.S. as a really positive partner and a force for the continued international order," he says.

In response to China's moves in the South China Sea, the U.S. has been tightening some of its security partnerships and increasing its military presence in the region, saysMichael O'Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the coauthor of a book on U.S.-China security relations, _Strategic Reassurance and Resolve_.

"It's move, counter-move," he says. "Hopefully, it's short of war."

The U.S. already has naval bases in Japan, Korea and Singapore. It also recently signed a new security agreement with the Philippines to open eight small bases for maritime operations.

Better relations with Vietnam would enhance U.S. presence in the region. The U.S. Navy already made four port visits in Vietnam in 2015. O'Hanlon says ultimately the U.S. would like the opportunity to increase the frequency or significance of its visits to Cam Ranh Bay if China continues its "bullying."

"In a worst case," he says, "we can imagine an alliance with Vietnam or a permanent military presence in Cam Ranh Bay as a way to give us additional places from which to watch Chinese activity to help defend allies."

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## William Hung

> According to the US-ASEAN Business Council (US-ABC), Vietnam’s *$13 billion* “wish-list” includes combat jets, patrol aircraft, drones, attack helicopters, radar, coastal patrol boats and anti-submarine capable aircraft.



$13 billion/8 years = ~ $1.6 billion

hah

If all goes to plan, Inshallah.


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## Viet

*Russia, Vietnam agree to intensify security cooperation*
May 30, 2016 Alexander Korablinov, RBTH

The sides plan to work together to combat terrorism and drug-related crime.





_ Russian Minister of Internal Affairs Vladimir Kolokoltsev. Source: kremlin.ru _

Russia’s Internal Ministry and Vietnam’s Ministry of Public Security have agreed to intensify security cooperation, Viet Nam News reported on May 30.

Vietnam’s Public Security Minister Tô Lâm held talks with Russian Minister of Internal Affairs Vladimir Kolokoltsev and Director of the Federal Security Service Alexander Bortnikov on May 27 in Moscow, according to the paper.

The sides agreed to step up cooperation in countering terrorism, high-tech crime, drug-related crime, and human trafficking, the paper said. The countries will also cooperate in training security service officials.


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## Aqsuperman

Another visit by foreign warship.


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## Viet

*Armed to the Teeth: US Plans to Turn Vietnam Into Bulwark Against China*

20:21 28.05.2016

Washington has recently lifted its arms embargo on Vietnam, encouraging Hanoi to add advanced American weapons to its shopping list, raising the question: what is really behind the Obama administration's move?









With the US lethal arms embargo being lifted, Vietnam is likely to jump at the opportunity to stockpile new weapons, Robert Farley, a senior lecturer at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce, suggests in his article for the Diplomat.

Citing documents obtained by the Defense News media outlet, the academic reveals that the US might soon sell F-16 Viper fighters to the Vietnam People's Air Force (VPAF).

"But while the F-16s might capture headlines, the far more interesting moves come in the area of maritime ISR. Vietnam appears interested in acquiring American drones, radars, surveillance equipment, and electronic warfare capabilities. Most interesting of all, Vietnam appears to want P-3 Orion maritime patrol aircraft, which would massively increase its surface and anti-submarine warfare capabilities," Farley stresses.

According to the academic the VPAF and Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) cannot yet boast any advanced patrol assets, which make it especially difficult to fill the gap between "see-ers" and "shooters."

While the academic describes with great enthusiasm Vietnam's future acquisitions, the question arises: why Washington has lifted its decades-old lethal arms embargo on Vietnam now and what is really behind the move.

According to China's English-language Global Times, the move is clearly aimed against Beijing.

"Obama claimed that this move is not aimed at China, yet this is only a very poor lie which reveals the truth — exacerbating the strategic antagonism between Washington and Beijing," the media outlet wrote Tuesday, adding that "Vietnam is playing a particularly special role in the US rebalance to the Asia-Pacific strategy."

Is Beijing's stance justified? Likely so.

Farley writes that the US-made weaponry will provide Vietnam with capabilities that it "can use to exert greater control over the South China Sea."

"Not coincidentally, this is precisely the geostrategic outcome the US would like; an ally that can challenge the PLAN [Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy] and the PLAAF [People's Liberation Army Air Force] in what they believe to be their own back yard," the US academic stresses.

He adds, however, that it is not enough to sell weapons to Hanoi. According to Farley any arms sale requires the deployment of US trainers, advisors, and technicians that would facilitate "the development of a long-term US-Vietnam military relationship."

Undoubtedly the elimination of the US arms embargo will bolster the VPAF and the VPN's capabilities in the South China Sea, Farley insists.

"Combined with existing Vietnamese cruise missile and SAM capabilities, these systems can provide the key link in the kill chain, and potentially a strong deterrent threat against Chinese military activities," he notes.

"And this is precisely the outcome that the Obama administration (and the US defense industrial complex) wanted when it lifted the arms embargo on Vietnam," the US academic stresses.

It is no secret that Washington is trying to use its allies in the Asia Pacific to pressure Beijing into geopolitical concessions. The South China Sea is the issue of a primary importance used by the Obama administration as an apple of discord to undermine Beijing's positions in the region.

"The US power in the region rests on its ability to prevent China from having positive relations with its neighbors in the region. As usual, human rights and democracy created a pretext for the preconceived US strategy for the region. It's about preventing these countries from making their own decisions," American political analyst Eric Draitser told Radio Sputnik's Loud & Clear host Brian Becker.

Therefore the US-backed Philippines filed a lawsuit against China in The Hague over the South China Sea dispute, regardless of Beijing's vocal protest.

What adds to the peculiarity of the situation is that Vietnam shares the same ideology and political system with China: it is a Communist state.

However, "when the US has an urgent need to contain China in the South China Sea, the standards of its so-called human rights can be relaxed," Global Times remarks.

It is unclear how Washington is planning to make the Communist Hanoi a US bulwark against China in the region, especially given the US and Vietnam's controversial past.

Anyway, Beijing is not interested in fanning the flames in the region: its primary goal is to launch its New Silk Road project aimed to facilitate economic growth and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific.



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160528/1040422091/vietnam-china-south-china-sea-washington.html#ixzz4A8nUmTq7

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## Viet

May 30. Visit of India´s warships to the Cam Ranh bay: Guided missile stealth frigate, INS Satpura, INS Kirch, and a guided missile corvette with a crew of 80 officers and 580 sailors under the command of Rear Admiral SV Bhokare, Flag Officer Commanding Eastern Fleet.

























on the same day, a Australian warship, 3,900 ton missile frigate HMAS Anzac, with a crew of 215 officers and sailors on board, arrived in Saigon for a port visit.

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## Viet

the end of US arms embargo looks to have positive effect on Russia as well. the negotiation on the price and weaponry for the third batch of future Gepard frigates has reportedly made progress.

one thing seems to be sure: the Gepards will be armed by 8 × Kalibr cruise missiles as standard armament.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Yes, both Boing and Lockheed are quite desperate to keep the F-16 and F-18 production lines open and they've been pitching those planes to India including local production, which is extremely unlikely, so they really need a new customer right away.
> 
> The F-18 and the Growler is what the US Navy has to deal with the chinese navy, chinese air defense, the chinese Sukhois, etc, etc, so it makes sense that they've been fined tuned to deal with the same threat that Vietnam faces and they actually depend on the Growler to clear the way for the F-18 and the F-35 to penetrate chinese defenses, otherwise those two would be in trouble, particularly if facing the SU-35, so in my view, the Growler is the key.



The only other realistic alternative for a naval strike aircraft that can be purchase in large number (+24) is the MiG-29/35. But they don’t have very strong ECM. Su-34 is great for the role but the operating cost would be too high if procure +24 and they don’t have much commonality with the existing Su-30MK2 so there is really no advantage in terms of logistics support.

For @BoQ77
Denmark government’s evaluation report for F-35 vs EF-2000 vs F/A-18. Suprisingly F-35 cost less than both the other two.

http://www.fmn.dk/eng/allabout/new-fighter/Pages/new-fighter.aspx

but note that Boeing have rejected the Danish evaluation and said that the figure for the F/A-18 was over-estimated by 50%-100%.


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## Water Car Engineer

Viet said:


> Defence
> 
> *Manohar Parrikar to take along defence industry delegation to Vietnam with aim to boost military relations*
> By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | 28 May, 2016, 02:26 hrs IST
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US President Barak Obama's visit to Vietnam , India is sending a high-level defence industry delegation to the strategically-located neighbour of China .
> 
> The industry delegation — representing most major Indian arms companies — will accompany defence minister Manohar Parrikar to Vietnam early next month.
> 
> The visit comes even as India is looking at increasing its military engagement with the nation to counter an increasing Chinese footprint in the Indian Ocean that is supported by the People's Liberation Army's naval base at Hainan island, located adjacent to Vietnam.
> 
> Officials have told et that the defence ministry is in the process of selecting the industry delegation that will look at joint development and production orders from Vietnam that already has a commonality of military platforms with India, most of them of Russian origin, including submarines and frigates.
> 
> India has identified Vietnam as a nation to which arms exports can be made freely, even for cutting-edge systems like warship destroying Brahmos missile. This comes as Chinese arms companies increase their presence in India's immediate neighbourhood, including sales of submarines to Pakistan and military systems to Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. While the official delegation is being firmed up, it could include upwards of 15 private sector representatives, including executives from L&T, Tata and Reliance Defence, besides participation of public sector units like Brahmos. The final selection is to be made by Parrikar who will also be visiting Singapore for the Shangri La dialogue as part of his overseas tour.
> 
> Defence analysts say that there is a case for increased exports to Vietnam that would boost the Indian industry. "The MoD is finally using defence sales as an instrument of regional diplomacy with the proposed export of four naval patrol vessels from GRSE (Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers) to Vietnam.
> 
> The Brahmos could present itself as another viable export product. Such cases when approved will bolster the business cases under the Make in India campaign," Ankur Gupta of EY India told ET. India's defence exports remain minuscule but have shot up exponentially over the past two years.
> 
> This has been spurred by the policy changes that makes it easier to export military stores and equipment and doing away with a provision that demanded multiple assurances by foreign governments even for the sale of components and parts by Indian entities. India also has a defence export strategy that looks at diplomacy as a major tool for exports, including the granting of line of credit to friendly foreign nations for purchase of military equipment.




Hi, I do think something will come out of this. Now, I dont necessary mean something major, but maybe small subsystem type deals, etc.


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## BoQ77

William Hung said:


> The only other realistic alternative for a naval strike aircraft that can be purchase in large number (+24) is the MiG-29/35. But they don’t have very strong ECM. Su-34 is great for the role but the operating cost would be too high if procure +24 and they don’t have much commonality with the existing Su-30MK2 so there is really no advantage in terms of logistics support.
> 
> For @BoQ77
> Denmark government’s evaluation report for F-35 vs EF-2000 vs F/A-18. Suprisingly F-35 cost less than both the other two.
> 
> http://www.fmn.dk/eng/allabout/new-fighter/Pages/new-fighter.aspx
> 
> but note that Boeing have rejected the Danish evaluation and said that the figure for the F/A-18 was over-estimated by 50%-100%.



I like secondhand F-18 for now and at least next 10 years, but not F-35 now based on below :
- US wanna replace F-18 by time
- Second hand F-18 would be very cheap ( 20-25 mil ? ) but suitable to naval fighter/attack role.
- F-18 could be armed by nearly all weapons that at this moment F-35 could only dream for: B-61, JDAM, AIM-120D ... JSOW , SLAM-ER ...
So expect with deal signed, training time, 2018-2019 would be the earliest for the first deployed in Vietnam Naval Air force.
---------------
Not F-35 because:
- US is still busy to produce F35 for themselves and not ready to sell to Vietnam
- F-35 would be still expensive until 2023-2025 ( currently more than 100 mil ), after that expect price could be 70-75 mil.
- F-35 is incomplete now and next few years,

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> The only other realistic alternative for a naval strike aircraft that can be purchase in large number (+24) is the MiG-29/35. But they don’t have very strong ECM. Su-34 is great for the role but the operating cost would be too high if procure +24 and they don’t have much commonality with the existing Su-30MK2 so there is really no advantage in terms of logistics support.
> 
> For @BoQ77
> Denmark government’s evaluation report for F-35 vs EF-2000 vs F/A-18. Suprisingly F-35 cost less than both the other two.
> 
> http://www.fmn.dk/eng/allabout/new-fighter/Pages/new-fighter.aspx
> 
> but note that Boeing have rejected the Danish evaluation and said that the figure for the F/A-18 was over-estimated by 50%-100%.



I've already seen several reports that say that Denmark made a political decision about the F-35, nobody believes it, they sugar coated everything about the F-35 to make it look better. Everybody and their dog knows that the F-35 is very expensive to operate and it has a lot of maintenance issues. How can Denmark say how expensive it is to operate before they actually start to operate the aircraft and when the aircraft is not going to actually be ready until 2019 (at least).

I've been reading about the SU-34 and the Growler last night and I've found a recent article that says that the SU-34 its going to be made into a full ECM aircraft with the addition of some new ECM pods to be added to the fuselage of the aircraft. At the moment, the SU-34 uses the Khibiny-10V ECM system in pods mounted in the wing tips, but the Khibiny-10V is just for self protection while the new system will make it into a Growler equivalent. Considering that this is a new system and the Russians are ahead of the Americans when it comes to ECM (as was admitted by the NATO chief and others), I'd say that the SU-34 has the advantage over the Growler. Russia is also working on an upgrade for the SU-30.

Reading about the Growler, I see that its ECM system is a bit dated now and its considered to not be effective against emerging threats. The Americans are going to develop a new system. The current system also has a high failure rate.

So, I feel the SU-34 has the advantage and it also has partial commonality with the SU-34 as well as using the same missiles, etc. The Russians buy it very cheap, but I don't know what the export price will be. VV has some leverage now since it has options. Still, the big issue is that the Russians can also sell it to the chinese.



BoQ77 said:


> I like secondhand F-18 for now and at least next 10 years, but not F-35 now based on below :
> - US wanna replace F-18 by time
> - Second hand F-18 would be very cheap ( 20-25 mil ? ) but suitable to naval fighter/attack role.
> - F-18 could be armed by nearly all weapons that at this moment F-35 could only dream for: B-61, JDAM, AIM-120D ... JSOW , SLAM-ER ...
> So expect with deal signed, training time, 2018-2019 would be the earliest for the first deployed in Vietnam Naval Air force.
> ---------------
> Not F-35 because:
> - US is still busy to produce F35 for themselves and not ready to sell to Vietnam
> - F-35 would be still expensive until 2023-2025 ( currently more than 100 mil ), after that expect price could be 70-75 mil.
> - F-35 is incomplete now and next few years,



When you say a second hand F-18, you mean about the super Hornet or the original Hornet?


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## Viet

Water Car Engineer said:


> Hi, I do think something will come out of this. Now, I dont necessary mean something major, but maybe small subsystem type deals, etc.


Hope so. You have a sophisticated military industrial complex, assembling submarines such as the Scorpene. Would be a dream comes true if we could do the same. anyway Welcome to the Cam Ranh bay.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> F/A 18 C/D my friend



That sounds good. It brings new capabilities. 

I think VN needs to be cautious about going too far and too fast regarding the F-18, I don't think USA will sell a full version of the Growler. A watered down version might not be worth it to have.

The F-16 as per the Indonesian deal is very worth it. P-3C is worth it, S-3 should be ok. 

Step by step. I think VN should also buy some SU-35 and SU-34 and keep a foot on each side. Better safe than sorry.



BoQ77 said:


> I like secondhand F-18 for now and at least next 10 years, but not F-35 now based on below :
> - US wanna replace F-18 by time
> - Second hand F-18 would be very cheap ( 20-25 mil ? ) but suitable to naval fighter/attack role.
> - F-18 could be armed by nearly all weapons that at this moment F-35 could only dream for: B-61, JDAM, AIM-120D ... JSOW , SLAM-ER ...
> So expect with deal signed, training time, 2018-2019 would be the earliest for the first deployed in Vietnam Naval Air force.
> ---------------
> Not F-35 because:
> - US is still busy to produce F35 for themselves and not ready to sell to Vietnam
> - F-35 would be still expensive until 2023-2025 ( currently more than 100 mil ), after that expect price could be 70-75 mil.
> - F-35 is incomplete now and next few years,



Second hand F-16s and F-18s armed with Meteor would be a deal changer in the SCS.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That sounds good. It brings new capabilities.
> 
> I think VN needs to be cautious about going too far and too fast regarding the F-18, I don't think USA will sell a full version of the Growler. A watered down version might not be worth it to have.
> 
> The F-16 as per the Indonesian deal is very worth it. P-3C is worth it, S-3 should be ok.
> 
> Step by step. I think VN should also buy some SU-35 and SU-34 and keep a foot on each side. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Second hand F-16s and F-18s armed with Meteor would be a deal changer in the SCS.


if people ask me, I would favor F-18 over F-16 as Strike Fighter. more powerful, twin engines, and most importantly interoperatility with US aircraft carriers cruising in the South China Sea. our jets can land on them

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> That sounds good. It brings new capabilities.
> 
> I think VN needs to be cautious about going too far and too fast regarding the F-18, I don't think USA will sell a full version of the Growler. A watered down version might not be worth it to have.
> 
> The F-16 as per the Indonesian deal is very worth it. P-3C is worth it, S-3 should be ok.
> 
> Step by step. I think VN should also buy some SU-35 and SU-34 and keep a foot on each side. Better safe than sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Second hand F-16s and F-18s armed with Meteor would be a deal changer in the SCS.



Some Vietnam said The next would be Su30sm at not expensive price level.

I aim to second hand F18 by all owners , not only US, (Upgrade or weapons from Us), as cheap replacement for Su22 and Mig21 bis as Finnish ever chosen

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## Indos

Carlosa said:


> Second hand F-16s and F-18s armed with Meteor would be a deal changer in the SCS.



Indonesian Su 27/30 has tested Australian Super hornet, the radar is more superior than us for BVR dog fight, but rumors said we beat them in WVR. You have already had Su 27/30 so F 16 Block 52 is better to complement it. Our F 16 has also tested their F 18 in Kupang recently

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## BoQ77

Indos said:


> Indonesian Su 27/30 has tested Australian Super hornet, the radar is more superior than us for BVR dog fight, but rumors said we beat them in WVR. You have already had Su 27/30 so F 16 Block 52 is better to complement it. Our F 16 has also tested their F 18 in Kupang recently



It's interesting to hear from you.
Indonesia has both Su-30 and F-16,
Could you choose one over three on cost / effective ? F-18, F-16, Su-30 ? for naval fighter ?
Should we add some F-16 to our Su-30 fleet, just like you ? or F-18 ( C/D ) altogether ? we had nearly 50 Sukhoi 27 and Su-30 in our inventory, but none of US aircraft at this moment.
How about F-18 E/F ( Super Hornet ) ? based on your test with F-16 IND

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## Indos

BoQ77 said:


> It's interesting to hear from you.
> Indonesia has both Su-30 and F-16,
> Could you choose one over three on cost / effective ? F-18, F-16, Su-30 ? for naval fighter ?
> Should we add some F-16 to our Su-30 fleet, just like you ? or F-18 ( C/D ) altogether ? we had nearly 50 Sukhoi 27 and Su-30 in our inventory, but none of US aircraft at this moment.
> How about F-18 E/F ( Super Hornet ) ? based on your test with F-16 IND



Well, if I were in your position it is better to up grade the radar rather than buying Super hornet as the two is relatively in similar class ( and also F-15). And our dog fight happen long time ago in Pitch Black, Australia. Even Indian Sukhoi also has satisfactory result in England against British fighter. 

As you are more close to US ally so it is better for you to ask your participation on the next Pitch Black in which USA will also join to check F 18 performance. Indonesia will participate in the next pitch black according to our member in here, so better watch out, I guest we will come with the latest Su 30 that we have beside Su 27 air superiority fighter.

As we know that F 16 comes after GD beats Boeing F 18 when both two still in prototype. And yes F 18 has more range but it depends on your potential combat zone in SCS, if F 16 can handle the range I bet we must go for F 16 as even it can beat F-35 in WVR in USA. F 16 is also cheaper to operate so it can be more efficient to patroling the SCS.

Actually our F 16 has many experience having joint practice with Australian F 18 but we dont have much information about the result of the training. Every year we have joint training with them. But I guess more information about F-16 vs F18 E/F can be obtained from US.

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## Viet

_I believe, since we have improved relationship to America, many people now think we have become a great power 

_

*Will India and Vietnam join USA's efforts to weaken BRICS?*
30.05.2016







The US views Russia and China as its prime enemies. To struggle against Russia and China, the Americans try to win India, Vietnam and other countries over to their side.


*Can the US break or at least weaken the BRICS?*

Pravda.Ru conducted an interview on the subject with Professor of the Department of Oriental Studies at MGIMO Sergey Lunev and Chief Scientific Officer at the Institute of World Economy and International Relations, Alexander Salitsky.

_"Recently, US lawmakers have approved the defense bill, according to which India has acquired the status of a NATO ally. Moreover, similarly to the practice with Israel, the USA undertakes to defend India regardless of the wish of the president. Why has Nareandra Modi decided to violate the status of non-alignment?"_

Sergey Lunev: "Because he has not violated the status of non-alignment. The media hype about India becoming a military partner of the United States is biased and unfounded. India has been making steps towards both the USA and Russia, but I do not see any violation of India's status here. Plus, India develops ties wit China."

Alexander Salitsky: "We should not make hasty statements, because the Indian foreign policy stipulates for conditions to limit the pro-bloc strategy. For the time being, nothing is clear yet."


*US and Vietnam against China *
_
"US President Barack Obama stated during his visit to Vietnam that the US government decided to lift the embargo on the supplies of lethal weapons to Vietnam. Are Chinese communists not dangerous for Washington anymore?"_

SL: "They did not seem particularly dangerous in recent years. The psychological perception of Vietnam in the United States has played its role here. After all, the Americans were defeated in the Vietnam War. America's main competitor is China, and Vietnam does not want China to grow stronger. This is where Vietnam and the USA can cooperate. At the same time, India and Vietnam develop active cooperation with Russia as well, and this cooperation is much deeper than the cooperation with the USA."

AS: "The United States tends to whip up tensions in the South China Sea. America's intention to sow seeds of conflict between the countries of the region, including between China and Vietnam, is pretty obvious. Russian officials said that such issues should be regulated only by the countries of the region."


*Attack on the BRICS*
_
"Is the USA trying to weaken the BRICS? Brazil has tried to impeach President Dilma Rousseff under the conditions of doubtful legitimacy. In South Africa, unrest is brewing against Jacob Zuma. Vietnam and India become America's partners."_

SL: "This partnership can only be possible to a certain extent. In the Asia-Pacific region, the main goal of the United States is to encircle China with its influence. I strongly doubt that Vietnam and India will develop serious military and political cooperation with the United States. India will not join the plans of the United States against China.

"BRICS is, of course, a thorn in the side for the entire West. This association unites all major non-Western countries. They are dissatisfied with the monopoly position of the West in the world's political and especially economic system. Therefore, the United States plans to take measures to limit the capacity of the BRICS. The strategic triangle of Russia-India-China is most important inside the BRICS. The three countries share common goals and objectives on global issues.

AS: "The BRICS and other collective formats created by the countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization are to a large extent focused on dealing with regional issues together, but at the same time independently. The point of the SCO is to contain the influence of the unipolar world."


*How should Russia respond?*

_"What conclusions should Russia make?"_

SL: "Russia has been wary about the development of the US military and political ties with India and Vietnam. They are very important partners for Russia. Yet, despite all pessimistic estimates, India remains the main buyer of Russian weapons. However, Russia's share in arms sales to India may decrease if the US removes all barriers for the procurement of weapons.

"The same is with Vietnam. This month, the Vietnamese ambassador to Russia suggested Russia should go back to Cam Ranh. Russia uses Cam Ranh as a filling station for warships and bombers. The Americans wanted Vietnam to close the base last year, but the Vietnamese refused to do it.

"America's military, political and economic cooperation with the countries of the Asian-Pacific region will continue to develop. However, it does not mean that these countries will become USA's full-fledged partners. Russia should simply continue working with India, Vietnam and other countries."

AS: "Russia has already become a counterweight to the unipolar world and the domination of the United States. America shamelessly interferes in internal affairs of sovereign states, and the later find Russia's anti-American posture appealing."


*Read article on the Russian version of Pravda.Ru*

- See more at: http://www.pravdareport.com/world/asia/30-05-2016/134572-brics_usa-0/#sthash.ZXYVcrQA.dpuf


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## Carlosa

Indos said:


> Well, if I were in your position it is better to up grade the radar rather than buying Super hornet as the two is relatively in similar class ( and also F-15). And our dog fight happen long time ago in Pitch Black, Australia. Even Indian Sukhoi also has satisfactory result in England against British fighter.
> 
> As you are more close to US ally so it is better for you to ask your participation on the next Pitch Black in which USA will also join to check F 18 performance. Indonesia will participate in the next pitch black according to our member in here, so better watch out, I guest we will come with the latest Su 30 that we have beside Su 27 air superiority fighter.
> 
> As we know that F 16 comes after GD beats Boeing F 18 when both two still in prototype. And yes F 18 has more range but it depends on your potential combat zone in SCS, if F 16 can handle the range I bet we must go for F 16 as even it can beat F-35 in WVR in USA. F 16 is also cheaper to operate so it can be more efficient to patroling the SCS.
> 
> Actually our F 16 has many experience having joint practice with Australian F 18 but we dont have much information about the result of the training. Every year we have joint training with them. But I guess more information about F-16 vs F18 E/F can be obtained from US.



Good info man, thank you. How about between F-16 Block 52 vs SU-30?



BoQ77 said:


> It's interesting to hear from you.
> Indonesia has both Su-30 and F-16,
> Could you choose one over three on cost / effective ? F-18, F-16, Su-30 ? for naval fighter ?
> Should we add some F-16 to our Su-30 fleet, just like you ? or F-18 ( C/D ) altogether ? we had nearly 50 Sukhoi 27 and Su-30 in our inventory, but none of US aircraft at this moment.
> How about F-18 E/F ( Super Hornet ) ? based on your test with F-16 IND



F-18 C/D is a bit limited when it comes to range. The super hornet has 30% more range. That's a consideration when it comes to use it in the SCS.


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## Indos

Carlosa said:


> Good info man, thank you. How about between F-16 Block 52 vs SU-30?



Well I think the data is classified, F-16 block 52 is more agile and the engine is also quite powerful. I dont know much when those fighter jam to each other either. As you know, each fighter has its own strength and weakness, it should be you who analyse that based on your specific needs.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Good info man, thank you. How about between F-16 Block 52 vs SU-30?
> 
> 
> 
> F-18 C/D is a bit limited when it comes to range. The super hornet has 30% more range. That's a consideration when it comes to use it in the SCS.



Let imagine you have to replace entire of Su22 fleet by 36 or more of other naval fighters, which is your choice? 20 million or 60 million unit price or F16? you have the answer.

F18 to me, harden design with ocean situation, more suitable to replace Su22 for naval operation.
F16 will replace for Mig 21 as interceptor.

I imagine the training camp would be opened in Phan rang airbase, for mass training of F16 and F18 pilots in 2018.
After that, we expect 36 second hand F18 and 48 F16 to be delivered starting in 2019.

F18 range isnt enough for CBG to dominate mainland but enough to handle some isolated features which are under 300nm from Vietnam Coast.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Let imagine you have to replace entire of Su22 fleet by 36 or more of other naval fighters, which is your choice? 20 million or 60 million unit price or F16? you have the answer.
> 
> F18 to me, harden design with ocean situation, more suitable to replace Su22 for naval operation.
> F16 will replace for Mig 21 as interceptor.
> 
> I imagine the training camp would be opened in Phan rang airbase, for mass training of F16 and F18 pilots in 2018.
> After that, we expect 36 second hand F18 and 48 F16 to be delivered starting in 2019.
> 
> F18 range isnt enough for CBG to dominate mainland but enough to handle some isolated features which are under 300nm from Vietnam Coast.



Well, as a naval fighter I also think the F-18 is better and the F-16 I think is the most cost effective one overall and best as a replacement for the F-16. 

When you say: "we expect 36 second hand F18 and 48 F16 to be delivered starting in 2019", is that your thinking or do you have information that that's the plan that VN has?


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## Nike

Need congressional approval, and then building depot, maintenance center, training center, and so on the list will goes on, and that's ain't cheap...

Malaysia has long consider to adding their F-18 fleets although they are very great, but come nastily expensive

Singapore too, they had a great and sound plan, but they stick with their current numbers of 40 F-15SG and 65 F-16 block 52 ++, because the maintenance is expensive and needed at least double digits billion US dollar to maintain such a fleet, in which Vietnam is nowhere near the number of Singapore defense budget


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## Gen Padmanabhan

Carlosa said:


> Well, as a naval fighter I also think the F-18 is better and the F-16 I think is the most cost effective one overall and best as a replacement for the F-16.
> 
> When you say: "we expect 36 second hand F18 and 48 F16 to be delivered starting in 2019", is that your thinking or do you have information that that's the plan that VN has?


Instead of buying second hand, why not upgrading MK2 to Super Sukhoi standards? Which also involve avionics from Israel?


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## Indos

This will be the look of Vietnam SCS patrol fleet if you insist buying those F 18............

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## Carlosa

Gen Padmanabhan said:


> Instead of buying second hand, why not upgrading MK2 to Super Sukhoi standards? Which also involve avionics from Israel?



I would upgrade the SU-30MK2 once the AESA version of the Irbis-E radar is available, but still, VN needs more planes, not enough now. Second hand F-16s are cheap, but yes, as Madokafc said, have to consider the logistical expenses.

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## Viet

*The Big Read: Hanoi's delicate dance with the US shines a light on shifting regional alliances *

albertwai@mediacorp.com.sg -
Published: 10:47 PM, May 27, 2016
Updated: 4:22 AM, May 28, 2016


To get a clearer understanding of the remarkable events that took place in Hanoi early this week, casual observers must acquaint themselves with that name: Haiyang Shiyou 981.






_(An oil rig (centre) which China calls Haiyang Shiyou 981, and Vietnam refers to as Hai Duong 981, is seen in the South China Sea, off the shore of Vietnam in this May 14, 2014. Photo: Reuters)_


It represented the shock that Vietnam woke up to in May 2014: The Haiyang Shiyou 981, a US$1 billion (S$1.37 billion) giant Chinese oil rig, parked off its coast, in waters that both countries claim.

Vietnam tried to dislodge the deep-water drilling rig, sending a flotilla of ships its way, but was beaten back by a more forceful response from the Chinese ships that escorted the China National Offshore Oil Corporation rig. The ensuing chaos sparked an international crisis, and a violent nationalistic response within Vietnam.

But it was the silence on one end that quickly moved things onto a different plane — when Vietnam’s communist party leader Nguyen Phu Trong tried to reach Beijing to protest, his calls were not returned. Hanoi wasted no time in turning to the United States, lobbying its former enemy to lift an arms embargo so that Vietnam could buy American lethal weapons to protect itself.

The US partly relaxed the ban, allowing the purchase of non-lethal equipment for maritime defence, and last year, warmly received Mr Trong at the White House.

That visit arguably set in firm motion the full lifting of the arms embargo this week, announced during the first official visit by President Barack Obama to Vietnam.

The move not only ends one of the last vestiges of the Vietnam War, but, more importantly, marks a recalibration of US-Vietnam ties as well as Hanoi’s relationship with Beijing.





_ US President Barack Obama attends a town hall meeting with members of the Young Southeast Asian Leaders Initiative (YSEALI) at the GEM Center in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam May 25, 2016. Photo: Reuters _


“In a sense, you can consider this Vietnam’s version of ‘rebalance’ after the estrangement of the Vietnam War,” said Singapore’s Ambassador-at-Large Bilahari Kausikan, noting that Vietnamese revolutionary leader Ho Chi Minh himself had made overtures to the US after World War II and only decisively turned to the communist bloc after he was rebuffed.

“The Vietnamese are first and foremost nationalists,” added Mr Kausikan. The S R Nathan Fellow has this year given a series of public lectures about how the South China Sea issue has become one where the parameters of Sino-American competition and their interests are most clearly defined and from which South-east Asia nations will draw conclusions about American resolve and Chinese intentions in the region.

While Mr Obama said the decision to lift the arms ban had nothing to do with China, most experts and analysts believe it was partly in response to Beijing’s assertiveness in staking Chinese claims in the disputed waters of the South China Sea.

Analysts have suggested that, in return, Hanoi may allow the US access to Cam Ranh Bay — a strategic deepwater port in an inlet of the disputed South China Sea. Such a development, if it comes to pass, will upset China and raise further questions on how the diplomatic and military dance around the waterway will play out.

The picture is further complicated by disputes involving China and several countries in the region over fishing rights in the South China Sea. Malaysia this week detained three Filipino fishermen for fishing in its territorial waters. Indonesia has launched an aggressive crackdown on illegal fishing vessels — including those owned by Chinese, Filipino, Malaysian, Thai and Vietnamese fishermen — in its waters, sinking more than 60 of them so far. The fishermen have insisted they were plying their trade in traditional fishing waters.

_(Click to Enlarge)_






Against this background of tension and rivalry, some South-east Asian countries are already changing positions with regard to their relations with the major powers. Thailand, a long-time ally of the US, has been alienated from Washington since Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha launched a military coup in 2014. Mr Prayuth’s government has been strengthening ties with Beijing.

There are also indications that the Philippines, which has overlapping claims with China in the South China Sea and is another treaty ally of the US, may recalibrate its ties with Washington. President-elect Rodrigo Duterte has openly questioned the US’ commitment to the Philippines in the event of a conflict with China. He has also indicated that he is open to talks with Beijing.

Only time will tell how these changing geopolitical alliances will affect regional peace and stability, especially given the uncertainty in the US’ foreign policy towards Asia as Mr Obama nears the end of his term in the White House.


*A NEW DAWN IN US-VIETNAM TIES?*

Mr Obama’s visit to Vietnam this week was steeped in significance. Both sides herald a new partnership 40 years after a bitter war that claimed more than 57,000 American lives and killed as many as two million Vietnamese.






_(US President Barack Obama greets attendees after a town-hall-style meeting with members of the Young Southeast Asian Leaders Initiative at the GEM Center in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, May 25, 2016. Photo: The New York Times)_


The President portrayed the lifting of the arms embargo as part of the process of normalising relations between the two countries. “This change will ensure that Vietnam has access to the equipment that it needs to defend itself,” Mr Obama said in a press conference with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang on Monday.

“It also underscores the commitment of the US to fully normalise the relationship with Vietnam, including strong defence ties,” Mr Obama said.

Everywhere he went, the US President was greeted by cheering locals, all jostling to catch a glimpse of the world’s top leader. In a masterstroke of public diplomacy, Mr Obama sat down for a meal with celebrity television show host Anthony Bourdain in a humble noodle shop in Hanoi, delighting netizens and many Vietnamese.

Mr Obama also held a town hall session in Ho Chi Minh City with young Vietnamese leaders. He urged them to do more to combat climate change and touted the benefits of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP).

The TPP is a landmark trade pact among 12 Pacific Rim nations, including Vietnam, and is a capstone to Mr Obama’s foreign-policy rebalance towards closer ties with Asia.

For Vietnam, Mr Obama’s visit could not have gone better.

“The messages of friendship and cooperation as well as those of looking forward to the future have been sent and well received in Vietnam,” said Mr Tran Viet Thai, deputy director of the Institute for Foreign Policy and Strategic Studies under Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Assistant Professor Richard Heydarian, who teaches political science at De La Salle University in Manila, noted that the Obama administration has “astutely tapped into Vietnam’s strategic anxieties to build a security partnership that seemed unthinkable just a decade ago”.

“Through the TPP and the growing naval cooperation with America, Vietnam hopes to dampen its deleterious vulnerability with respect to its giant neighbour,” he added, referring to China.

Vietnam’s economy will reportedly get a 10 per cent boost from the TPP in the next decade.

At first glance, ties between Hanoi and Washington appear to have been given a huge boost by the lifting of the arms embargo. Vietnam has hitherto viewed the embargo as a discriminatory practice and a relic of the Cold War, but Washington had held back so that it could continue to use the embargo as a bargaining chip to get Hanoi to improve its human-rights record.

The lifting of the ban is therefore an important diplomatic signal from the US that it wants to move the relationship with Vietnam forward, especially since Vietnam is now the biggest South-east Asian exporter to the US.

“The removal of the embargo indicates a stronger rapprochement and a higher level of trust between the two countries, which makes them more comfortable and more willing to pursue closer cooperation in the future, especially in sensitive areas such as defence and security,” said Dr Le Hong Hiep, a research fellow at the Iseas-Yusof Ishak Institute in Singapore.

Vietnam, which lost two short naval wars with China in 1974 and 1988 over disputed islands in the South China Sea, is alarmed by China’s growing assertiveness in the maritime regional domain.






_(Security forces (front) scuffle with protesters chanting anti-China slogans, during an anti-China protest in Vietnam’s southern Ho Chi Minh city, in this photo taken by Kyodo May 18, 2014. Photo: Reuters)_


China-Vietnam ties were severely strained in 2014 after the deployment of the China National Offshore Oil Corporation rig sparked massive anti-Chinese protests that left at least 21 dead and dozens injured in Vietnam. Thousands of Chinese citizens had to be extracted from Vietnam for their safety. Although Beijing moved the rig back to its waters after two months, the crisis saw bilateral relations between the two nations tumble to their lowest point in decades.

By cosying up to Washington, Hanoi has sent a clear signal to Beijing that it has powerful friends. At the same time, Vietnam is unlikely to sever itself from the orbit of its largest trading partner and ideological ally.

“Vietnam is acutely conscious it lives next to China and has done so for two thousand years. They have to simultaneously stand up to China and get along with China. That will never change and they are not going to swing all the way one way or another,” said Mr Kausikan.

Military analysts say although there is likely to be greater defence cooperation between the US and Vietnam going forward, this is unlikely to be in the form of major weapons deals.

Since the arms embargo was partially lifted two years ago to allow Hanoi to buy equipment such as radar and boats, Vietnam has not followed up with any major purchases.

“Vietnam is fully in the Russian technological domain, and to break out they will have significant technological problems integrating American weapons into their existing Russian-based armed forces,” said Associate Professor Bernard Loo from the military studies programme of the S Rajaratnam School of International Studies, adding that he expects more consultations and exchanges between both sides in future.

Professor Carl Thayer of the Australian Defence Force Academy said he expects the US and Vietnam to step up cooperation in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief as well as training for Vietnam’s involvement in United Nations peacekeeping.

“Vietnam likely will permit the US to preposition supplies and equipment to deal with natural disasters in the region. Vietnam will not, however, join with the US in military exercises that could appear to be aimed at China,” added Prof Thayer, who has studied Vietnam’s military since the 1960s.

Commenting on the outlook for US-Vietnam relations, Dr Denny Roy, a senior fellow at the East-West Center in Honolulu, said ties were likely to see a gradual but long-term improvement.

“Both sides will continue to protect their self-interests. To some degree, this will limit the speed at which the bilateral relationship develops. Nevertheless, the relationship can grow despite these disagreements,” he said.

“In a sense, this is an advantage because expectations are lower when everyone realises these are former adversaries with mutually-antagonistic political systems.”






_(People gather and wave to US President Barack Obama’s motorcade as it travels to a Young Southeast Asian Leaders Initiative (YSEALI) town hall-style event at the GEM Center in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, Wednesday, May 25, 2016. Photo: AP)
_

*BEIJING TAKES NOTICE*

Mr Obama’s visit to Vietnam and how ties between both sides progress will no doubt be closely watched by Beijing.

“For China, Vietnam’s increasingly active embrace of the US rebalance — from its participation in the TPP and acquisition of US-built patrol boats, to its citizens’ fanfare reception of President Obama — is a major setback for its strategic influence in South-east Asia,” said Mr Ashley Townshend, a research fellow at the US Studies Centre at the University of Sydney.

“Despite long-standing cultural ties and extensive party-to-party relations, China is effectively ‘losing’ Vietnam to the US,” he added.

China’s official response to the outcome of Mr Obama’s visit was muted and measured, with a Foreign Ministry spokesman saying that Beijing hoped the lifting of the arms embargo would be beneficial to regional peace, stability and development.

However, the Global Times, an influential state-run newspaper, slammed the announcement, saying the move was aimed at Beijing. It added that the US’ move would exacerbate the “strategic antagonism between Washington and Beijing” and accused the White House of “taking advantage of Vietnam to stir up more troubles in the South China Sea”.

Closer US-Vietnam ties come at a time when China is challenged on several fronts over its claims in the South China Sea, through which roughly US$5 billion (S$6.88 billion) of shipborne trade pass through every year. China, Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan have overlapping claims in the disputed waters.

Massive land reclamation, construction of military facilities and the siting of military equipment in the disputed islands and reefs controlled by Beijing have sparked fears of militarisation in the region. The Pentagon has carried out repeated patrols near Chinese-controlled islands, ostensibly to uphold freedom of navigation in international waters.

Manila has asked a court of arbitration at The Hague to recognise its right to exploit waters in the South China Sea, but Beijing has insisted that the court has no jurisdiction over the case.

A ruling on the case is expected in the coming weeks. But leading up to that, China has cobbled up a list of more than 40 countries — many of which are landlocked ones from beyond the region — which Beijing claims endorses its position that the issue should be settled through direct negotiations and not international courts.

When asked if China is getting more nervous about developments in the South China Sea, Mr Kausikan replied that “at least the PRC MFA is getting nervous”, referring to the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

“Otherwise why go around collecting so-called statements of support from such major maritime powers as Sudan, Gambia and Belarus, among others? It impresses no one and only internationalises the issue, which all along (is something) the Chinese say they don’t want,” said Mr Kausikan.

“I think this is because the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) will have to explain to its own people why, if the Great Rejuvenation (espoused by President Xi Jinping) is really so great, and China under CCP leadership is recovering territories lost when China was weak, an international tribunal thinks these are not really Chinese,” he added.

“So they have to show that there is no international consensus and many countries support China, never mind if most of these countries either don’t have a clue what the South China Sea issue is all about or have had words put into their mouth.”

Mr Kausikan believed it was not necessary for Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi to divide the Association of South-east Asian Nations (Asean) by recently getting Laos, Cambodia and Brunei to agree to a so-called four-point consensus on the South China Sea.

“Asean would not have been able to agree on a common position on the tribunal’s decision even if Wang Yi did not do anything. But Wang Yi is worried about his career as the MFA was bound to be blamed if it did nothing.”


*STRATEGIC CAM RANH BAY*





_(Cam Ranh International Port. Source: Vietnam Ministry of Foreign Affairs)_


Adding to Beijing’s anxieties is how the operational picture in the South China Sea might change if Vietnam allows the US Navy to access a recently inaugurated international commercial port in Cam Ranh Bay, a dual-use facility that can also serve foreign warships.

Situated on the south-eastern coast of Vietnam approximately 290km north of Ho Chi Minh City, Cam Ranh Bay is closer to the disputed Paracel Islands claimed by both Beijing and Hanoi than China’s nearest naval base in Hainan.

The bay is also near the Strait of Malacca, giving the US influence over the important global shipping route. It is a deepwater facility that can reportedly receive aircraft carriers and submarines.

The navies of Singapore, Japan and France have visited Cam Ranh International Port since it was opened several months ago. Singapore’s RSS Endurance was the first foreign warship to call at Cam Ranh port on March 17.






_(The RSS Endurance at Cam Ranh International Port on March 17. The RSS Endurance is first foreign warship to call into Cam Ranh International Port since its inauguration on March 8. Photo: Ng Eng Hen/Facebook)_


Despite speculation that Hanoi may be willing to allow the US Navy to access Cam Ranh Bay, the nature of the arrangement — occasional port calls, rotational deployment, or long-term presence — has yet to be announced.

If the US Navy is given access to Cam Ranh Bay, it will open up another front that China has to watch, in addition to the Scarborough Shoal at the eastern reaches of the South China Sea, where Beijing is facing off against a Philippines supported by the US and Japan.

“Were Hanoi to permit the US military to access airstrips and port facilities at Cam Ranh Bay, Beijing would be confronted with American military access points along the western, southern and eastern flanks of the South China Sea,” noted Mr Townshend of the US Studies Centre.

Professor Alexander Vuving, of the Daniel K Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu, said that granting the US military access to Cam Ranh Bay would be a “smart move in a weiqi game”, a Chinese traditional chess game based on the principle of indirect offence.

“If the US Navy has permanent access to Cam Ranh Bay, this can neutralise some of the advantage China can enjoy due to its artificial islands in the South China Sea,” he said.

Other analysts point out that, ultimately, the modality through which the US is allowed to access Cam Ranh Bay will be carefully considered by Vietnam. High among Hanoi’s considerations will be how to balance sending a clear signal to Beijing that it is no pushover, with minimising the chances of conflict.

Prof Thayer of the Australian Defence Force Academy said that Vietnam is unlikely to give the US privileged access to Cam Ranh Bay. He said Vietnam will also stop short of allowing any permanent presence or rotational presence by the US Navy there.

“Vietnam will carefully orchestrate these visits so as to minimise Chinese concerns,” said Prof Thayer.

Dr Le of the Iseas-Yusof Ishak Institute added that, for the moment, Vietnam is likely to take a gradual approach to the issue. “It does not want to generate the perception that it is ganging up with the US and other countries against China,” he noted.

“Every step Vietnam takes with the US, it will have to look back to see how China reacts.”

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I would upgrade the SU-30MK2 once the AESA version of the Irbis-E radar is available, but still, VN needs more planes, not enough now. Second hand F-16s are cheap, but yes, as Madokafc said, have to consider the logistical expenses.


correct. we need more planes, which have advanced radars and weaponry aboard. according to some reports, true or not, the government has sent a wish list, worth so some $13 billion to the US, requesting for procurement. a decision of the US government as well as of the Congress is expected before this year end. would be nice if we could see the list 

Re-edited: attack helicopters?

Maybe, Apache gunship helicopters. That would be a new game should they come.

http://www.npr.org/2016/05/24/47927...-to-profit-from-lifting-of-arms-embargo-again

_Ben Moores, a defense specialist at the consultancy IHS Janes says that includes a roughly $13 billion wish list for military equipment. "That's everything from tanks, armored personnel carriers, attack helicopters, tactical helicopters, long range radars, maritime patrol aircraft. So they've got a wide range" ._

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Singapore too, they had a great and sound plan, but they stick with their current numbers of 40 F-15SG and 65 F-16 block 52 ++, because the maintenance is expensive and needed at least double digits billion US dollar to maintain such a fleet, in which Vietnam is nowhere near the number of Singapore defense budget



They are not just sticking to what they have, they also have F-35 on order and they have just doubled their number of F-15s.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Well, as a naval fighter I also think the F-18 is better and the F-16 I think is the most cost effective one overall and best as a replacement for the F-16.
> 
> When you say: "we expect 36 second hand F18 and 48 F16 to be delivered starting in 2019", is that your thinking or do you have information that that's the plan that VN has?



my guess.
in 2026, 2% of Vietnam GDP would be 7.5 billion dollars, profit of military companies would be 4 billion dollars.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> They are not just sticking to what they have, they also have F-35 on order and they have just doubled their number of F-15s.


you know, our mado sis, as usual


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## gtiger

Carlosa said:


> They are not just sticking to what they have, they also have F-35 on order and they have just doubled their number of F-15s.



Did Singapore actually order the planes? All the news I have read only said that the deal was very close to finalize.


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## Carlosa

gtiger said:


> Did Singapore actually order the planes? All the news I have read only said that the deal was very close to finalize.



What I had read is that they *secretively* doubled the number of F-15s. I guess they wanted to keep it confidential to not stir up tension in SCS.

Much of their air force is based on US bases, so its easy for them to keep it low key.


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## Water Car Engineer

I would love to see some American hardware inducted.. 



Viet said:


> Hope so. *You have a sophisticated military industrial complex*, assembling submarines such as the Scorpene. Would be a dream comes true if we could do the same. anyway Welcome to the Cam Ranh bay.




Not yet, but with India recently opening up it's defence sector to the world and also it's private firms, it'll get there in time.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> my guess.
> in 2026, 2% of Vietnam GDP would be 7.5 billion dollars, profit of military companies would be 4 billion dollars.



Regarding the second hand F-18s, have to keep in mind that the airframes from the US Navy are only designed for 4000 hours of operation (because of using them in a marine environment and the extra wear of carrier operations) while the ones sold to air forces have 8000 hours of operation, so I'm not sure it would be worth it to get those.

Australia, Canada and Spain air forces have F-18s.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> correct. we need more planes, which have advanced radars and weaponry aboard. according to some reports, true or not, the government has sent a wish list, worth so some $13 billion to the US, requesting for procurement. a decision of the US government as well as of the Congress is expected before this year end. would be nice if we could see the list
> 
> Re-edited: attack helicopters?
> 
> Maybe, Apache gunship helicopters. That would be a new game should they come.
> 
> http://www.npr.org/2016/05/24/47927...-to-profit-from-lifting-of-arms-embargo-again
> 
> _Ben Moores, a defense specialist at the consultancy IHS Janes says that includes a roughly $13 billion wish list for military equipment. "That's everything from tanks, armored personnel carriers, attack helicopters, tactical helicopters, long range radars, maritime patrol aircraft. So they've got a wide range" ._



I just remember reading something in the Indian forum recently where an Indian member wrote that India needed the Rafale because the Pakistani F-16s block 52 have air superiority over their SU-30MKIs because of better ECM. They expect to lose 2 SU-30MKIs for each Pakistani F-16 lost.

If that's correct, then those F-16s block 52 still pack a nice punch. Just imagine if they are block 60.


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## Carlosa

Indos said:


> Indonesian Su 27/30 has tested Australian Super hornet, the radar is more superior than us for BVR dog fight, but rumors said we beat them in WVR. You have already had Su 27/30 so F 16 Block 52 is better to complement it. Our F 16 has also tested their F 18 in Kupang recently



The upgraded F-16s that Indonesia is getting, for how many flying hours are those guaranteed for?


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## Indos

Carlosa said:


> The upgraded F-16s that Indonesia is getting, for how many flying hours are those guaranteed for?



Well, I am not a military man, just a fanboy, I dont know for sure, but some parts are actually new so it makes the flying hours become quite long as the planes will be called a refurbished F 16. Better you ask @madokafc or @Jakartans@PkDef for any technical thing like this.

As we also know that Singapore has decided to upgrade all of their F 16 which will be finished until around 2022-3 conducted by Lockheed Martin. It means even though their platform are an old ones ( only their F-15 that is actually relatively new for them, being acquired since 2000 and adding them gradually), the Singaporean still considers it as worth it considering the upgrading project is huge in term of money.

I am not around anymore for sometimes, need focus for my new project. 




I hope you guys well.

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## Carlosa

Indos said:


> Well, I am not a military man, just a fanboy, I dont know for sure, but some parts are actually new so it makes the flying hours become quite long as the planes will be called a refurbished F 16. Better you ask @madokafc or @Jakartans@PkDef for any technical thing like this.
> 
> As we also know that Singapore has decided to upgrade all of their F 16 which will be finished until around 2022-3 conducted by Lockheed Martin. It means even though their platform are an old ones ( only their F-15 that is actually relatively new for them, being acquired since 2000 and adding them gradually), the Singaporean still considers it as worth it considering the upgrading project is huge in term of money.
> 
> I am not around anymore for sometimes, need focus for my new project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you guys well.



Thank you. Good luck in your project.

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## Viet

Military Capabilities
*Japan and Vietnam outline patrol boat programme*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
31 May 2016

Japan and Vietnam have agreed to strengthen defence collaboration, with a focus on Tokyo's provision of aid to support Hanoi's purchase of additional patrol vessels.

Japan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said on 28 May, following talks between Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and his visiting counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, that the two sides had agreed to "accelerate" the patrol vessel programme.

The ministry added that the vessels would be new platforms and support the Vietnamese patrol boats previously supplied by Japan to enhance the Southeast Asian country's maritime security efforts.

The ministry indicated the project would be funded by Japan's official development assistance (ODA) programme.

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## Water Car Engineer

Carlosa said:


> *I just remember reading something in the Indian forum recently where an Indian member wrote that India needed the Rafale because the Pakistani F-16s block 52 have air superiority over their SU-30MKIs because of better ECM. They expect to lose 2 SU-30MKIs for each Pakistani F-16 lost.*
> 
> If that's correct, then those F-16s block 52 still pack a nice punch. Just imagine if they are block 60.



I doubt anyone in the IAF expect that. They need a deep strike, better serviceable plane, with also the industrial benefits the French can offer to India. Also keep in mind the F16 Block 60 IN was also offered and rejected. Lockheed Martin is still trying to push the bird through.

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## Carlosa

Water Car Engineer said:


> I doubt anyone in the IAF expect that. They need a deep strike, better serviceable plane, with also the industrial benefits the French can offer to India. Also keep in mind the F16 Block 60 IN was also offered and rejected. Lockheed Martin is still trying to push the bird through.



That makes sense; frankly, I was a bit surprised too, particularly since the SU-30MKI is an air superiority fighter, but that's what the guy wrote and nobody challenged that.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Please, don't buy Apache...
> 
> Our brothers poles shot them down left and right both unrestricted and restricted scenarios in 2003...


how realistic were these "scenarios"?

well, I´m not as a military expert as you but I assume any weapon if operating alone is vulnerable to enemy firepower from ground, sea, air...

if you send tanks into battlefields without infantry and air support, those tanks would quickly turn to expensive scrap metal. so helicopters, fighter jets or even aircraft carriers. I don´t see any wrong in there if we acquire Apache or other attack helicopters. we haven´t have any attack submarines until recently.

you should keep in mind, our army has high percentage of russian made weapons (93%) imported from Russia, or produced domestically by russian licence. so the chinese army. they have russian made weapon systems, and derivates of. ok, they have developed a sophisticated military complex. Their dependency on Russia is much less.

Plus the chinese can field more men than the entire vietnamese population, having more weapons than their soldiers can carry, possessing more money they can spend.

so what is our response?

within our very limited resources, we must have something in stocks that give us a military edge over the PLA, should it come to a physical confrontation. Our navy is weaker. So it is wise to escalate the battles to land, where our real strength lies. It is a safe bet the Chinese would send more than several hundreds tanks they fielded in the 1979 land war. Haven't they more than 10,000 tanks today?

A thing the Chinese should take it into their strategic calculus, as history shows it: a war between Vietnam and China would always drag in our immediate neighbors Laos and Cambodia. and with a bit delay Thailand. Other Great powers as Russia, America, Japan and India would not sit idle if China starts aggression in attacking Vietnam. Our counter strategy must be a quick escalation, internationalizing the war.

I am ware of the fact, if Vietnam possessing US weapon systems or formal or informal military alliance with Washington will be another step on the escalation ladder. but the Chinese have no reason to blame us. it is them that seek confrontation.


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## Perpendicular

*Vietnam broadening its repair capabilities Su-27 and Su-30 fighter aircrafts*
*



**http://defence-blog.com/news/vietnam-broadening-its-repair-capabilities-su-27-fighter-aircrafts.html*

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## Viet

CONTENT PREVIEW
Country Risk

*India aims to supply BrahMos cruise missiles to Vietnam*
*Rahul Bedi, New Delhi* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

01 June 2016








India plans to provide Vietnam with varied defence equipment, including BrahMos cruise missiles, in a bid to counter Chinese armament companies equipping several militaries in South Asia and the Indian Ocean region, according to Indian defence industry officials.

To further this offer and strengthen bilateral strategic ties, Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is travelling to Hanoi in early June accompanied by a 15-20 member team comprising private and public sector defence manufacturers.

"The Indian defence delegation to Vietnam will further the joint development and production of a range of military equipment such as small arms, missile and naval systems as well as assorted ammunition," an industry official told _IHS Jane's_ .

Foremost among the proposed materiel is the joint India-Russia-developed BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile featuring a 292 km strike range that New Delhi had offered Hanoi two years ago. India had been unable to supply the missile at the time due to unresolved issues with Russia regarding export and intellectual property rights, which were only recently resolved, officials said.

Configured on Russia's 3M55 Oniks/Yakhont system (NATO designation SS-NZX-26) and named after the Brahmaputra and Moskva rivers in India and Russia, the BrahMos is a two-stage vehicle with a solid propellant booster and a liquid propellant ram-jet system.

The radar-guided missile is 8.4 m long, weighs 3.9 tonnes and is capable of being fired from ships. Its variants can be launched from mobile land-based platforms. India is also readying the BrahMos to be fired from a submarine and a Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter.

Since 2008 India has supplied Vietnam with some 5,000 spare parts for its Soviet Petya-class frigates and provided assistance in overhauling the Southeast Asian nation's MiG-21 fighters and T-55 tanks. 

In October 2014 India pledged to supply Vietnam with four locally built offshore patrol vessels under a USD100 million credit line.


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## Viet

*Moving the U.S-Vietnam Relationship into the Future*
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/moving-the-us-vietnam-relationship-the-future-16361?page=2





Truong-Minh VuNgo Di Lan
May 26, 2016


With China looming large in the background, it is easy to characterize the recent warming in relations between the U.S and Vietnam, which culminated in President Obama's latest visit to Vietnam, as a marriage of convenience. While this is undoubtedly true to a certain extent, such characterization fails to capture the full essence of U.S-Vietnam relations and where this relationship is heading in the near future. The U.S and Vietnam have been moving closer together for strategic reasons but this is possible because both sides have been building strategic trust, thereby laying the foundation for a more sustainable partnership in the longer term.

Although Obama visited Vietnam just several months before leaving office and at a time when he is considered by many as a "lame duck" president, this trip has both symbolic and substantive significance. First and foremost, the U.S finally agreed to fully lift its four-decade-old lethal arms embargo on Vietnam, thereby removing one of the last vestiges of the Cold War and paving the way for closer defense cooperation between two countries. Second, both countries also deepened their economic relations as VietJet reached a groundbreaking $11.3 billion deal with Boeing, purchasing 100 Boeing's B737 MAX 200 aircrafts and another $3 billion worth of Pratt & Whitney engines. 

At the same time, U.S General Electric and the Vietnamese government have agreed to cooperate in the field of wind energy. To deepen people-to-people ties, Vietnam allowed the Peace Corps to enter the country to teach English in Vietnamese schools and both sides mutually agreed to grant one-year multiple-entry visas for short-term business and tourism travelers from both countries. There is no doubt that these arrangements will make it easier for both Vietnamese and Americans to connect, to share ideas and build long term partnerships.

While it is decidedly true that China's increasingly assertive behavior in the South China Sea has sped up the process of full rapprochement between the U.S and Vietnam, this process had been initiated long ago and at a time when Sino-U.S relations were still fairly cordial. After a lengthy period of negotiations, in 1994, President Clinton finally lifted the economic embargo on Vietnam, paving the way for the full normalization of the U.S-Vietnam relations a year later. In 2000, Clinton became the first U.S president ever to visit Vietnam and in that same year, the U.S and Vietnam also successfully concluded the Bilateral Trade Agreement, which has been fundamental in boosting trade relations between the two countries.

In 2013, during President Truong Tan Sang's visit to Washington, the two countries agreed to upgrade their relations to "comprehensive partnership", signaling that their bilateral relations have entered a new era of deepening cooperation in all aspects. In late 2014, after much consideration, the U.S decided to partially lift its lethal weapons embargo on Vietnam. In 2015, General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made an unprecedented visit to the U.S, which led to the U.S-Vietnam Joint Vision Statement - a very important document that laid out a crucial roadmap for future U.S-Vietnam cooperation. In this context, what Obama achieved in this trip is remarkable but also expected as it is a natural result of a process that has been carefully nurtured by both sides for many years.

Nevertheless, it is impossible not to view Obama's trip to Vietnam as part of the "U.S pivot to Asia". While the U.S denies that the trip has anything to do with China, Obama's remarks in Hanoi makes it clear that Washington wants to counterbalance Beijing's attempts to dominate the South China Sea. The decision to fully lift the lethal arms embargo on Vietnam is the highlight among various agreements reached by both sides. Symbolically, this move is important because it sends a robust and unambiguous signal to China that their "gunboat diplomacy" in the South China Sea has backfired. At the same time, it shows Chinese leaders that Vietnam is now important enough strategically for the U.S to set human rights concerns aside and move forward in the field of defense cooperation. This will not immediately change the strategic calculus in Beijing but in the longer term, there are grounds to believe that closer defense relations between the U.S and Vietnam can moderate China's behavior in the region.

Substantively, this decision will allow Vietnam to purchase military hardware that it is in dire needs to enhance its maritime defense capability vis-à-vis China. According to SIPRI, between 2011-2015, Vietnam imports 93% of its arms from Russia. This suggests that Vietnam needs to quickly diversify its arms supplier because too much reliance on a single supplier puts Hanoi in a vulnerable position by giving others too much leverage and leaving itself exposed in the event of a supply shock. It is also worth noting that Russia has been selling similar weapon systems like the Su-35 fighter or S-400 missile defense system to both China and Vietnam. This is understandable from an arms' seller viewpoint but it is clearly disadvantageous for Vietnam because it does not allow having a military edge over China in any area.








While Russian weapons may be cheaper than others, they are not always the most advanced or effective, particularly in terms of C4ISR. This is not to say that the lifting of the arms embargo will immediately result in massive Vietnamese purchase of U.S weapons. In fact, such a scenario is highly unlikely but the fact that Vietnam could now purchase some of the most advanced weapon systems available is significant in and of itself. The struggle over the South China Sea will be a long game of wei qi, not a game of chess that is going to end any time soon so Vietnam's ability to arm itself and deter China in the long run is still immensely important. Furthermore, the fact that the U.S allows Vietnam to buy its weapons despite remaining differences regarding human rights issues is bound to have some spill-over effects in the long term. This decision will allow both sides to build mutual trust, which would permit more far-reaching cooperation in the future.

Last but not least, in a situation where China-Philippines relations, potentially drawing in the United States, become precarious, China will likely watch carefully how Vietnam responds. The Permanent Court of Arbitration is expected to issue a ruling very soon. Substantially, given the reality of State practice in the South China Sea, it doubtful whether China can prove that it has met the conditions to establish historic rights in the South China Sea. In any case, the case law of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) provides very limited support for historic rights as the basis for a State to claim a vast body of water beyond UNCLOS legal framework. It will be difficult for China, therefore, to uphold its claims to historic rights over the entire South China Sea.

Beijing might be motivated to take further actions to solidify its claims before the court decision, or once the court decision is out, to take some “dramatic” actions to demonstrate that it does not have any intention to respect the decision, even if only implicitly. If the siege mentality, a product of the “Century of Humiliation,” kicks in, Beijing might start to see (if not already) smaller neighbors, including Vietnam, as puppets of the United States. From Beijing's perspective, Washington is bent orchestrating a coalition to encroach upon Chinese sovereignty and preventing it from “legitimately” exercising its rights in the South China Sea. Given recent China’s behavior to protect her influence sphere, it is no longer possible to ignore the possible challenge to Southeast Asian countries that border China.

Vietnam’s continuing trade and investment dependence on China is a particular vulnerability. Due it geographic position, Vietnam is also vulnerable to both direct attack and the more complicated “hybrid” warfare. It will take time to reduce that independence. However, serious efforts should be launched and promoted strongly from both sides. What this means is that while Hanoi has scored points with Obama’s visit and the lifting of the lethal weapons embargo, it needs to use this capital wisely and avoid situations that unnecessarily irritate Beijing. Leaders need to carefully consider how to respond to the upcoming court ruling and potential conflicts between China and the Philippines. To maintain stability, considering that nobody is legally obliged to back Vietnam, it might be wiser for Hanoi to pursue a mix of deterrence and enhanced capability, as well as reassurance at the same time.

A strong Vietnam in a united ASEAN is a key American interest. President Obama’s historic visit continuously has laid a robust foundation that could secure U.S-Vietnam cooperation in the longer term to combat China's hegemonic ambitions and other future challenges. Sharing strategic interests between Vietnam and U.S will ensure that this partnership will survive and thrive even when an immediate external threat no longer exists, so that both sides could eventually move beyond a "marriage of convenience" toward a truly comprehensive and strategic partnership.

*Ngo Di Lan*_ is a PhD student at Brandeis University, where he focuses on U.S foreign policy and U.S-China relations. He is also a research associate at the Center for International Studies (SCIS) at the University of Social Sciences and Humanities in Ho Chi Minh City._

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## Viet

*Shared concerns about China bring Vietnam and Japan closer*
2 June 2016
Author: Nguyen Manh Hung, George Mason University

Three weeks after assuming office, on 22 April 2016, Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang was quoted as saying that Japan is ‘one of Vietnam’s most important cooperative partners’. The importance given to the Vietnam–Japan relationship, on both sides, has increased with the changing power configuration in Asia.







The basis for the extensive and growing security cooperation between Vietnam and Japan is a shared concern over Chinese territorial ambitions. China’s assertion of its territorial claims in the South China Sea has prompted Vietnam to adopt a strategy of soft balancing against China. This strategy is based on two components: a three-nos policy — no foreign base, no military alliance, no siding with one country against another — to assuage China’s fear of encirclement, and what Hanoi calls the ‘diversification and multilateralisation of its foreign relations’ to balance against Chinese pressure.

Even before the emergence of the current South China Sea disputes, Vietnam considered Japan to be one of its best and most powerful friends in Asia. As a close ally of the United States, Japan has been Vietnam’s most important link to the West. Japanese policy has been much more supportive of Vietnam than that of the United States. Japan immediately normalised relations with Vietnam after the conclusion of the Paris Peace Agreement in 1973, (while it took the United States another 22 years to do so). Japan was also the first country in the Western camp to resume aid to Vietnam in 1992, a major step in ending Vietnam’s diplomatic and economic isolation as a result of its invasion of Cambodia.

Japan signed a trade agreement and exchanged most favoured nation status with Vietnam in 1991, seven years before the US Congress did the same. In 2011 Japan officially designated Vietnam a market-based economy, a status Vietnam has not yet received from the United States. As a result, Japan is Vietnam’s largest donor in terms of official development assistance, the second largest investor in Vietnam after South Korea, and the third largest export market for Vietnam after China and the United States.

In the sensitive area of defence cooperation, Japan agreed to form a strategic partnership with Vietnam as early as 2006, making it the second country to do so after Russia, a traditional ally of Vietnam. This partnership was elevated to ‘intensive strategic partnership’ in March 2014.

Of the major powers that could serve as a counterweight to China, Russia has sided with China in opposing the internationalisation of the South China Sea dispute. Human rights issues and latent Vietnamese suspicion of American intentions and commitments have prevented relations with the United States from developing to their full potential.

That leaves Japan as an attractive alternative that can, along with the United States, act as a counterweight to China. Japan is an Asian country, so Vietnam does not have to worry about it withdrawing from the region. Because of Japan’s own maritime disputes with China in the East China Sea, and the importance of the South China Sea to Japanese commerce and security, Japan has an important stake in preventing China from controlling the South China Sea. Japan has taken steps to increase its role in safeguarding freedom of navigation, sustaining US involvement in Asia and providing defence assistance to the Philippines and Vietnam.

China’s placing of an oil rig in Vietnam’s claimed exclusive economic zone in May 2014 as well as its subsequent efforts to build and militarise artificial islands in disputed waters created a slight pivot in Vietnam policy toward the West. Seeking counterweights took precedence over the fear of antagonising China. It was in this context that defence cooperation between Vietnam and Japan accelerated.

One month after the oil rig incident, in June 2014, the Japanese landing ship Kunisaki docked at Tien Sa port as part of a US Navy-supported Pacific Partnership. Two months later, in August, Japan announced it would provide Vietnam with six vessels to boost its capacity for maritime security. In May 2016 Japan pledged to provide two more. The two sides have also agreed to hold joint naval exercises.

The most concrete sign of the new defence partnership has been Japan’s increased use of Vietnam’s strategic Cam Ranh Bay naval base. The two countries agreed to allow Japanese warships to dock at Cam Ranh for refuel and supplies. Two Japanese P-3C Orion surveillance planes and two Japanese guided-missile destroyers have transited there so far this year.

The presence of the Japan Self-Defense Forces at Cam Ranh Bay signals Japan’s clear commitment to Vietnam in the South China Sea dispute and heralds a new chapter in bilateral defence cooperation. More broadly, the deepening defence cooperation between Vietnam and Japan is illustrative of how China’s actions in the South China Sea are prompting Southeast Asian states to seek out friendships with new regional partners.

_Nguyen Manh Hung is Professor Emeritus of Government and International Relations at George Mason University and non-resident senior associate at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, Washington D.C._


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## Aqsuperman

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Please, don't buy Apache...
> 
> Our brothers poles shot them down left and right both unrestricted and restricted scenarios in 2003...



blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah 

Solution : ZERO 
Logic : Prepschooh kid level + near impossible to understand
Assuming + calculated response : As always
Shotdown Apache left and right..............SURE, VERY GOOD. 

Gali rifle. The current model is somewhat better than the first. Higher muzzel velocity may be the reason

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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> 
> Solution : ZERO
> Logic : Prepschooh kid level + near impossible to understand
> Assuming + calculated response : As always
> Shotdown Apache left and right..............SURE, VERY GOOD.
> 
> Gali rifle. The current model is somewhat better than the first. Higher muzzel velocity may be the reason



AQ is that you? you shouldn't play with those guns, it's too dangerous on you. You should give them to me.


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## Viet

a news that surprises some: in a recent report of _IISS - Survival - Global Politics and Strategy_, North Korea recently shipped spare parts to *Vietnam* for the 2 Yugo-class midget submarines, purchased in 1997. The 1997 deal included 16 torpedoes (Soviet type, probably Type 53-56), 282 batteries and 8 mines. the mini-sub has twin 533mm (21”) torpedo tubes in the nose.

it is a strong indication that the Navy continues operating the mini-subs for covered operations.








Vietnam operated mini-submarine is similar to the P-4 YUGO boat captured by South Korea during an North Korean infiltration mission in 1998. Interestingly the sensors of the captured boat, including the sonar, were of Japanese origin.

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## Aqsuperman

They still roaming the sea till today


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> how realistic were these "scenarios"?
> *Realistic as realistic it could be...
> 
> http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php/t-119608.html
> *
> well, I´m not as a military expert as you but I assume any weapon if operating alone is vulnerable to enemy firepower from ground, sea, air...
> *I never said I was an expert and your assumption is of an obvious fact, US learned the lesson in Poland and Iraq confirmed it that Apache is a failure for what it was created to do which is Deep Attack aka bomber tactics deep behind enemy lines world war 2 mindset somehow US military thought it will work.*
> 
> if you send tanks into battlefields without infantry and air support, those tanks would quickly turn to expensive scrap metal. so helicopters, fighter jets or even aircraft carriers. I don´t see any wrong in there if we acquire Apache or other attack helicopters. we haven´t have any attack submarines until recently.
> *Apache is overrated and it would be better if you rather buy more modern tanks like T-90 rather than depend on modernized T-55's...*
> 
> you should keep in mind, our army has high percentage of russian made weapons (93%) imported from Russia, or produced domestically by russian licence. so the chinese army. they have russian made weapon systems, and derivates of. ok, they have developed a sophisticated military complex. Their dependency on Russia is much less.
> *...and your leaders should strive for to be less depended and more self sustainable. You have the economy and budget to buy technology, buy from Ukranians or Argentinians designs to build long range rockets, send satelites to have surveilance of your land from space to be equal with chinese. Information is power after all.
> *
> Plus the chinese can field more men than the entire vietnamese population, having more weapons than their soldiers can carry, possessing more money they can spend.
> *Growth of Vietnamese economy is greater than Chinese in percentage, Chinese population is getting older and is shrinking while its opposite for your country, the gap is shrinking and Chinese can't deploy all professional soldiers in war against Vietnam.*
> 
> so what is our response?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> within our very limited resources, we must have something in stocks that give us a military edge over the PLA, should it come to a physical confrontation. Our navy is weaker. So it is wise to escalate the battles to land, where our real strength lies. It is a safe bet the Chinese would send more than several hundreds tanks they fielded in the 1979 land war. Haven't they more than 10,000 tanks today?
> *Do you think they would deploy all of them, realistically? Look, T-55 is outdated and upgrades that were done won't help much, you need more up to date tanks that have auto loaders thus one crew less is needed to have a fully operational tank. For that one guy per tank less allocated you could have more people to man more tanks or more infantry men... Get ASW helicopters if you don't have them already, get smaller less detectable submarines, drones that are capable for firing guided missiles, etc... It is all obvious.*
> 
> 
> A thing the Chinese should take it into their strategic calculus, as history shows it: a war between Vietnam and China would always drag in our immediate neighbors Laos and Cambodia. and with a bit delay Thailand. Other Great powers as Russia, America, Japan and India would not sit idle if China starts aggression in attacking Vietnam. Our counter strategy must be a quick escalation, internationalizing the war.
> *For that to happen, your military needs endurance to drag out the conflict for others to be able to respond or otherwise get conquered and you are left on your own...*
> 
> I am ware of the fact, if Vietnam possessing US weapon systems or formal or informal military alliance with Washington will be another step on the escalation ladder. but the Chinese have no reason to blame us. it is them that seek confrontation.
> *The more reason you don't make it easy for them... First you must make your blade equally edged as your opponets, it is foolish to have one razor sharp edge and one blunt edge that is utterly useless. That is why I suggested a 5.56 for assault rifle to be on equal playing field, a boxer with longer arms will more likely to win that a short armed one even if his punches are only a bit stronger up close, but not bone crushing as more precise blows by the other.*.





Aqsuperman said:


> They still roaming the sea till today


Thoee subs were produced in my country. North Korean subs are based on Yugoslavian technology which was primarily developed on territory of my cohntry whoch made subs since world war one.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Is Getting a Mach 3 Missile—Much to China's Chagrin*
*http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21137/the-worlds-fastest-anti-ship-missile-vietnam/?ref=yfp*

India is ready to sell the world's fastest anti-ship cruise missile to Vietnam. The BrahMos uses ramjet engine technology to achieve speeds of up to Mach 3, making it a deadly addition to Vietnam's arsenal.

BrahMos was developed jointly by India and Russia, its name a mashup of the Brahmaputra and Moscow Rivers. The missile was developed through the 1990s and early 2000s from the Russian P-800 Oniks anti-ship missile. It is in service with the Indian Armed Forces. 

This is the fastest low-altitude missile in the world. The missile has two stages. The first, consisting of a solid-fuel rocket, accelerates BrahMos to supersonic speeds. The second stage, a liquid-fueled ramjet, accelerates the weapon to Mach 2.8.

BrahMos flies as low 32 feet above the wavetops, making it what's known as a "sea skimmer." This, combined with its blistering speed, makes BrahMos very difficult to intercept: most warships will detect the missile only as it crests the horizon at a distance of 16 miles, giving them just 28 seconds to track and shoot down this hotrod of a missile. 

Land and ship-based versions of the missile have a range of 180 miles and pack a 440-lb. warhead. The aircraft-based version is even bigger, with a range of 310 miles and 660-lb. warhead. Even without a warhead, at Mach 3 BrahMos would impart tremendous kinetic energy on its target. In 1987, an Exocet missile slammed into the frigate USS _Stark_ and, although the warhead failed to explode, the missile still did considerable damage to the ship. 

One country that won't be happy about this deal? China. China and Vietnam are longstanding rivals who fought a brief shooting war in 1979 and have active territorial disputes in the South China Sea. If the two countries ever come to blows again, BrahMos would give China's admirals real pause. 

Via _USNI News_


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## William Hung

Indos said:


> I am not around anymore for sometimes, need focus for my new project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you guys well.



Goodluck with your new project bro.

Hope to see you back here soon.

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## Indos

William Hung said:


> Goodluck with your new project bro.
> 
> Hope to see you back here soon.



Thanks, I am still looking around at this moment........ 

The post is to inform other members that I might not reply fast anymore or maybe not replying in several months, depending on my latest decision about my activity in here.

If the project end up with satisfactory result, I may come back, but actually nowadays I prefer talking about private things, more personal thing like business stuff. Maybe we can start a thread talking about what we can help to each other in term of business opportunity just like what @BoQ77 did some time ago.

As we know MEA is starting so our relation in here can be used for more productive means in relation to our private life. What I do now is more on service business and I would like to focus on it for sometimes so cannot do other thing at the moment, but if the opportunity is there I might thinking about goods trading, maybe next year. There is new Japanese member that I forget the name who has similar interest on it (capitalizing our relation in here into more business oriented)

Please tag me there if you guys start a Thread about that.

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## BoQ77

Indos said:


> Thanks, I am still looking around at this moment........
> 
> The post is to inform other members that I might not reply fast anymore or maybe not replying in several months, depending on my latest decision about my activity in here.
> 
> If the project end up with satisfactory result, I may come back, but actually nowadays I prefer talking about private things, more personal thing like business stuff. Maybe we can start a thread talking about what we can help to each other in term of business opportunity just like what @BoQ77 did some time ago.
> 
> As we know MEA is starting so our relation in here can be used for more productive means in relation to our private life. What I do now is more on service business and I would like to focus on it for sometimes so cannot do other thing at the moment, but if the opportunity is there I might thinking about goods trading, maybe next year. There is new Japanese member that I forget the name who has similar interest on it (capitalizing our relation in here into more business oriented)
> 
> Please tag me there if you guys start a Thread about that.



Hey @Indos : what's your main business ?
Where can I reach you, Jakarta ?


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## Indos

BoQ77 said:


> Hey @Indos : what's your main business ?
> Where can I reach you, Jakarta ?



edited



William Hung said:


> I like your idea mate. I am also thinking about business opportunity when TPP, AEC kicks in.
> 
> But lets not give too much personal details here. I prefer we discuss these more personal business things on another platform. Maybe we can all create fake fb accounts and create a fb group/community just for the purpose you described where its totally seperate from politics, etc.
> 
> I will talk more later, dont have much time right now...if other members are interested they can commemts their idea.



Good Idea. I am into it, but maybe next year, not this year.

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## Indos

BoQ77 said:


> Does it need any special registration to be an imp/export company in Indonesia ?



Man, please edit my post there as I want to erase it later....

Only a license if one already has a company. In Indonesia current regulation, a registered company can do many thing, so we dont need to make another company for that. Today, it is much easier to process such thing like that in Indonesia.

@BoQ77 

Yup, Jakarta.


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## vtnsx

William Hung said:


> I like your idea mate. I am also thinking about business opportunity when TPP, AEC kicks in.
> 
> But lets not give too much personal details here. I prefer we discuss these more personal business things on another platform. Maybe we can all create fake fb accounts and create a fb group/community just for the purpose you described where its totally seperate from politics, etc.
> 
> I will talk more later, dont have much time right now...if other members are interested they can commemts their idea.



PM me your email. We can talk about business.


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## Viet

*Bob Kerrey’s War Record Fuels Debate in Vietnam on His Role at New University*
By RICHARD C. PADDOCKJUNE 2, 2016







Former Senator Bob Kerrey, board chairman of the new Fulbright University Vietnam, being presented with the school’s license during a ceremony in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, last month. Credit United States State Department 


BANGKOK — The appointment of former Senator Bob Kerrey to lead a new American-backed university in Vietnam has set off a sharp debate among Vietnamese over whether he should be disqualified because of his part in killing women and children as a Navy SEAL during the Vietnam War.

“While the Vietnamese are willing to let bygones be bygones,” Ton Nu Thi Ninh, Vietnam’s former ambassador to the European Union, said by email, “the decision to appoint Bob Kerrey to be chairman of the board of the first American-style university in Vietnam strikes me as insensitive to the Vietnamese at best, and taking us for granted at worst.”

The university, Fulbright University Vietnam, the first independent, private university in Vietnam, made news after President Obama announced its opening during a visit to Vietnam last week.

Mr. Kerrey admitted 15 years ago that he and the team of commandos he led in the Mekong Delta in 1969 killed innocent women and children during a midnight raid in the village of Thanh Phong. Survivors of the attack said 20 civilians were killed, including 13 children and a pregnant woman. Mr. Kerrey was awarded a Bronze Star after his squad falsely reported that it had killed 21 Viet Cong guerrillas.

Mr. Kerrey was silent about the slaughter for more than three decades until The New York Times and CBS News were on the verge of publishing a joint investigation in 2001.

“It was not a military victory,” Mr. Kerrey acknowledged in speech then. “It was a tragedy, and I had ordered it.”

“I have been haunted by it for 32 years,” he said.

The discussion of Mr. Kerrey’s war history — which has bubbled up in posts on Facebook and in articles at online news portals — threatens to reopen old wounds from what is known in Vietnam as the American War. About three million people died in the war, including more than 58,000 Americans.






Bob Kerrey during Navy SEAL training before combat in Vietnam.


Mr. Kerrey was later wounded on another mission and lost part of a leg. He and his raiders were never held to account for the killings.

Kerrey served as Nebraska’s governor and senator, ran for president in 1992, and retired from elective office in 2000. He served as president of the New School, a university in New York City, from 2001 to 2010.

Bao Anh Thai, a lawyer in Ho Chi Minh City, said that leading a university was not the proper place for a man with Mr. Kerrey’s war record.

“Please tell me the name of any prestigious university in this world, where a killer in cold blood of women and children — he admitted it and he is not charged for it — could be the president,” he wrote on Facebook.

“It is not about the Vietnam War, it is not about reconciliation between the two countries, it is a common sense of education. Would you send your children to a university like that?”

Nguyen Duc Hien, a journalist at a legal newspaper in Ho Chi Minh City, noted that Mr. Kerrey kept quiet about the atrocities for more than 30 years and only spoke publicly about them when journalists forced his hand.

“After killing and lying, he should not represent knowledge and contributing the values of America in Vietnam!” Mr. Hien wrote on Facebook.

“I welcome Fulbright, but America has no shortage of people to choose as a representative for America.”
Others were more willing to let Mr. Kerrey atone for his actions by helping the country.

“Give him a chance to correct his mistake by doing something useful for the Vietnamese people with his new job,” said Thao Dan, a literature teacher in Haiphong.

But Nguyen Van Tho, a writer and a veteran of the war, said there was a difference between forgiving and forgetting.

“If I had a chance to meet Bob Kerrey, I would still welcome him,” he said on Facebook. “I want to forgive and forget all the pain of war. People can forgive soldier Bob Kerrey but people are not allowed to forget all the killing of innocent civilians. That is a crime the world should condemn forever.”

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## Viet

*Air Force One*

a piece of information about the symbol of a superpower








- 2 x Boeing 747-200B series aircraft, which carry the tail codes 28000 and 29000

- 4x General Electric jet engines, and can move at top speed of about 1,126km per hour, at height of 45,100 feet while similar commercial 747s fly at about 30,000 feet. ready to travel anywhere in the world on a moment’s notice.

- a full tank can take the plane half way around the world. with mid-air refuelling it can stay up in the air indefinitely.

- emblazoned with the words "United States of America," the American flag, and the Seal of the US President

- Multi-frequency radios for air-to-air, air-to-ground and satellite communications. Onboard electronics are hardened to protect against an electromagnetic pulse

- secure communications equipment, allowing the aircraft to function as a mobile command center in the event of an attack on the United States.

- the plane is said having thermo-radiation shields, capable to withstand nuclear blasts. a five miles long cable out of the back enables the Air Force One to communicate with US nuclear submarines.

- wherever he goes and stays, as Commander-in-Chief on the Air Force One, the US president has the power to unleash nuclear weapons in an event of a nuclear exchange.

During Barack Obama visit to Vietnam, Skypec, Vietnam Air fuel service, was chosen to refuel Air Force One (and Marine One). the whole process from taking fuel from storage, transporting, labor tests and refuelling the aircraft were supervised and monitored by the US Secret Service. the tank trucks were guarded by a team of US Special Forces days and nights.


Skypec meeting with representatives of U.S Embassy in Hanoi and U.S Secret Services






Air Force One in Vietnam

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## Indos

William Hung said:


> @Indos, .



Edited


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Thoee subs were produced in my country. North Korean subs are based on Yugoslavian technology which was primarily developed on territory of my cohntry whoch made subs since world war one.


if your country develops or produces attack submarines similar to the Kilo class, please feel free and offer to Vietnam. thanks to Heaven, India government has finally approved selling Mach-3 brahmos cruise missiles. though they can be fired from ship, land, air and submarine, but the last one is especially interesting. what we need is a firing platform in form of submarines. with a special design to accommodate the brahmos.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> if your country develops or produces attack submarines similar to the Kilo class, please feel free and offer to Vietnam. thanks to Heaven, India government has finally approved selling Mach-3 brahmos cruise missiles. though they can be fired from ship, land, air and submarine, but the last one is especially interesting. what we need is a firing platform in form of submarines. with a special design to accommodate the brahmos.



Can launch them from torpedo tubes.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Can launch them from torpedo tubes.


really? did not know that. if our Kilo fire the missiles from the tubes, then the Navy should order 6 more subs.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> really? did not know that. if our Kilo fire the missiles from the tubes, then the Navy should order 6 more subs.



How do you think the Kilos can launch the Kalibr missiles?



Viet said:


> really? did not know that. if our Kilo fire the missiles from the tubes, then the Navy should order 6 more subs.



The missile is in a canister; the canister goes to the surface and that's when the missile fires from the canister, the missiles never touches the water.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> How do you think the Kilos can launch the Kalibir missiles?
> 
> The missile is in a canister; the canister goes to the surface and that's when the missile fires from the canister, the missiles never touches the water.


the Kilo fires kalibr through torpedo tubes. but I though as brahmos is much bigger and heavier than kalibr, we need VLS to fire the brahmos from the sub when submerged.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the Kilo fires kalibr through torpedo tubes. but I though as brahmos is much bigger and heavier than kalibr, we need VLS to fire the brahmos from the sub when submerged.



No man, Brahmos and kalibr are in the same size / weight category. They also use the same VLS tubes when launched from ships (the UKSK VLS system).


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No man, Brahmos and kalibr are in the same size / weight category. They also use the same VLS tubes when launched from ships (the UKSK VLS system).


Kalibr flies subsonic nearly during the entire route and accelerates to supersonic Mach 3 when coming close to target. Final approach. Brahmos is different. The missile flies supersonic Mach 3 during the entire route. I would assume Brahmos is heavier and bigger because of more fuel consumption. More speed means more fuel is required. Brahmos gives enemy defense less reaction time.

How can both missiles be in the same class, given the same range of 300 km? Or do I miss something?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Kalibr flies subsonic nearly during the entire route and accelerates to supersonic Mach 3 when coming close to target. Final approach. Brahmos is different. The missile flies supersonic Mach 3 during the entire route. I would assume Brahmos is heavier and bigger because of more fuel consumption. More speed means more fuel is required. Brahmos gives enemy defense less reaction time.
> 
> How can both missiles be in the same class, given the same range of 300 km? Or do I miss something?



No man, they really are in the same size / weight category, they are both big and heavy, Brahmos is a little bit heavier, the size difference is really small.

3M-54E Club-S, 8.2 m, diameter: 0.533 m, 2300 kg, final stage is 2.9 mach, warhead is 200 kg, this is the submarine launched anti-shipping variant (for export)
Brahmos: 8.4m, diameter: 0.6 m, 3,000 kg, warhead is 200 kg,

The 300 km range is not real, that's software limited for exports only. When you are seeing that both Brahmos and Kalibr have the same range of 300 km, you are just looking at the export version of both missiles which is in both cases limited to 300 km.

Brahmos has no less than 500 km range and the Kalibr can go up to 2500 km for the long range version that Russia used in Syria, so the range is all very relative, there are quite a few versions of the Kalibr. There is one version of the Kalibr (3M54T) that is even bigger than Brahmos at 8.9 m.

Russian subs use the land attack Kalibr 3M-14/3M-14T: 2500 km range, 8.9 m, so right there you can see the difference.

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## Viet

Carlosa

Ok ok good info.

Hopefully we will close some nice warship deals with India as well. With Brahmos on them.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa
> 
> Ok ok good info.
> 
> Hopefully we will close some nice warship deals with India as well. With Brahmos on them.



I'd like to see that. That's why we had the other thread about the Kamorta ships for Vietnam, but it might not be what is being planned according to some people.


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## William Hung

Does India possess all the source code for the Brahmos/Brahmos-mini? Do they have the know-how to integrate them to any system they want without Russian assistance?

If yes, then that may give some clue what the anti-shipping/land-attack missiles for the F/A-18V _might_ be.

If no, then the missiles for F/A-18 is still a mystery.


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Does India possess all the source code for the Brahmos/Brahmos-mini? Do they have the know-how to integrate them to any system they want without Russian assistance?
> 
> If yes, then that may give some clue what the anti-shipping/land-attack missiles for the F/A-18V _might_ be.
> 
> If no, then the missiles for F/A-18 is still a mystery.



If I remember correctly, no, India was complaining about not having the source code, at least not for all the systems / subsystems even that India does develop some of the software for Brahmos. Need to confirm with the Indian members.

India will use Python 5 and Derby-ER for the Tejas by the way, better combo than Russian missiles.



William Hung said:


> Does India possess all the source code for the Brahmos/Brahmos-mini? Do they have the know-how to integrate them to any system they want without Russian assistance?
> 
> If yes, then that may give some clue what the anti-shipping/land-attack missiles for the F/A-18V _might_ be.
> 
> If no, then the missiles for F/A-18 is still a mystery.



Brahmos-mini *WILL START *development in a few years, so this will be a long wait.

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## Carlosa

*The Modi government has cleared sale of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to Vietnam.*

To take on China's increasing hegemony in Asia, the Modi government has cleared sale of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to Vietnam.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar begins a five-day visit to Singapore and Vietnam from today. The main highlight of the visit would be talks on sale of BrahMos missiles to Vietnam.

Vietnam had been eyeing the missile for over five years now but the UPA government had been reluctant to give the nod fearing Chinese objections.

*The BrahMos Diaries*

BrahMos is a supersonic anti-ship missile, developed jointly by New Delhi and Moscow.

It is considered one of the most effective and lethal anti-ship missiles in any nation's inventory, almost entirely due to its speed

While the current BrahMos launch vehicles are surface and aircraft based, India is testing a submarine-launch version that could conceivably be used in Vietnam's Kilo-class submarines

Highly placed defence sources said both PM Narendra Modi and Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar were in favour of exporting the missile system to Vietnam

Beijing has expressed reservations against any plans by New Delhi to supply weapons to Vietnam

China and Vietnam are already locked in a tense face-off over maritime boundaries in the South China Sea

Praveen Pathak, spokesman for BrahMos Aerospace, told India Today: "We expect friendly nations-with whom neither India nor Russia have a conflict - to show an interest in buying these missiles."

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-china-bramos-missiles-modi-government-vietnam/1/683455.html

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## Viet

some reports speculate India not only wants to offer brahmos cruise missile but also patrol aircraft, fighter jet, attack helicopter and air defence system. we will see.

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## Nike

*China Media : Vietnam is Considering the Purchase of 28 T-90MS Modern Tanks from Russia*

04 Juni 2016



T-90MS main battle tanks (photo : russarmy)
Online media Sina (China) recently reported that the People's Army of Vietnam is considering the purchase and equipping of the Russian T-90MS, the original plan was to buy 28 units. According to the current demand, the armored forces Vietnam needs at least 200 new tanks.
Sina network that Vietnam Military Army for years not focused on modernization. This due to the fact that Vietnam should focus equip the navy and air force, while budget difficulties. So towards the army is not strong investment.
Therefore, the force increase - armored Vietnam until the present time mainly use the T-54/55 and T-62 is considered outdated in the world. Not only that, the Vietnam tank backward when compared to neighboring countries such as Thailand - the country has imported tanks T-84-T Oplot of Ukraine, China, it has equipped the Type 99 tank is considered the world's leading modern.
*To partially offset gaps in the armored forces, Vietnam has a solution to upgrade a number of tanks T-54/55. But still can not meet the requirements of modern warfare.*
In the early 2000s, Vietnam is said to have intention to buy 150 tanks T-72M1 - export version of the T-72 for the Eastern European countries, no armor ERA, downgraded fire control system. However, this plan did not succeed.
Some information says that Vietnam will equip T-90MS tanks to units stationed in the northern region.
T-90MS is the upgraded version of modernization on the basis of T-90S tanks for export. Compared to the old T-90S, T-90MS is equipped with a more powerful engine with a capacity of up to 1,130 horsepower, price controls equipped automatic weapons mounted guns UDP 7,62mm T05BV-1, equipped with reactive armor eRA explosive new type of electronic system and more modern. In particular, the ammunition in the vehicle was redesigned to increase survival for crews if blasting enemy bullet inside.
(DatViet)

even a simple peasants armed with RPG-7's can bring havoc into today Vietnamese armored column


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

Kilo class submarines are formidable, but you can't depend on it with few numbers, your country needs smaller submarines too for survivability.

My country is capable of producing 800 ton submarines and there are design of 1000 plus tons which were not made due to high risk of getting stuck on coast due to many islands...


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> Kilo class submarines are formidable, but you can't depend on it with few numbers, your country needs smaller submarines too for survivability.
> 
> My country is capable of producing 800 ton submarines and there are design of 1000 plus tons which were not made due to high risk of getting stuck on coast due to many islands...


sounds good.

But there is only a little problem. Croatia is as known to Vietnam as the people of Maori. A group of people in Polynesia. You know what? should Zagreb politicians suddenly develop an own version of 'pivot to Asia', you are welcome to take the world map and find out where Vietnam lies. Anyway at least we can look at the bright side: since the NATO big brother the United States ends arms embargo, Croatia should have a free hand in exporting defence technology.



madokafc said:


> even a simple peasants armed with RPG-7's can bring havoc into today Vietnamese armored column


Who wants to attack our tank column with RPG?

I assume you mean the PLA. Do you think the Chinese with the today and future military power can scare Vietnam? China's GDP at the height of the Ming reached one third of the world's GDP. Their organized armed forces with fire arms were second to none in the 15 century. They were the undisputed power in Asia. But in the war against Vietnam, they suffered a total blow. Our navy is weak, but unterestimating our land army is a mistake.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> sounds good.
> 
> But there is only a little problem. Croatia is as known to Vietnam as the people of Maori. A group of people in Polynesia. You know what? should Zagreb politicians suddenly develop an own version of 'pivot to Asia', you are welcome to take the world map and find out where Vietnam lies. Anyway at least we can look at the bright side: since the NATO big brother the United States ends arms embargo, Croatia should have a free hand in exporting defence technology.
> 
> 
> Who wants to attack our tank column with RPG?
> 
> I assume you mean the PLA. Do you think the Chinese with the today and future military power can scare Vietnam? China's GDP at the height of the Ming reached one third of the world's GDP. Their organized armed forces with fire arms were second to none in the 15 century. They were the undisputed power in Asia. But in the war against Vietnam, they suffered a total blow. Our navy is weak, but unterestimating our land army is a mistake.



LoL, your army today is relic of Vietnam War era, nothing is good about that

Your armor is comprised from BMP-1 series, T-54/55 and your armored vehicle is nothing but actually a steel plate attached on car engines. Nothing good and is very weak

Just look at your immediate neighbor inventory like Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia most of them had been equipped with the lates armor technology and advanced Anti Tank weaponry, Vietnam Army even doesn't sport ATGM in large number like ISIS or Hezbollah, and that's very hillarious. Not to mention, your capability right now to engage modern warfare is very limited with shortage of funds unlike your previous experiences against France and USA when you got money, hardware and military expertise from Communist Bloc (mainly Soviet, PRC, Cuba, North Korea and other).


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> LoL, your army today is relic of Vietnam War era, nothing is good about that
> 
> Your armor is comprised from BMP-1 series, T-54/55 and your armored vehicle is nothing but actually a steel plate attached on car engines. Nothing good and is very weak
> 
> Just look at your immediate neighbor inventory like Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia most of them had been equipped with the lates armor technology and advanced Anti Tank weaponry, Vietnam Army even doesn't sport ATGM in large number like ISIS or Hezbollah, and that's very hillarious. Not to mention, your capability right now to engage modern warfare is very limited with shortage of funds unlike your previous experiences against France and USA when you got money, hardware and military expertise from Communist Bloc (mainly Soviet, PRC, Cuba, North Korea and other).


I'm shocked by your analyse, that reveals how poor today our army is. It seems we are lost. I also appreciate your insights on how mighty our neighbors are, from Indonesia to Thailand to Singapore. Please feel free if you want to donate. We take everything. One thing I want to mention here, before leaving. in case you haven't noticed, until recently in the 1990s Vietnam was classified as 'dirty poor', but now is just as 'poor'. Everything was destroyed in wars. So it will take some time to recover, a lot of waters will flow down the Red river, until we escape poverty.

By then, we would have funds for new battle tanks. Sad.

Yes I know the eastern bloc had collapsed, also, the Soviet Union. Otherwise I guess a certain country would think 10 times before advancing any policy of aggression.

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## Nike

Viet said:


> I'm shocked by your analyse, that reveals how poor today our army is. It seems we are lost. I also appreciate your insights on how mighty our neighbors are, from Indonesia to Thailand to Singapore. Please feel free if you want to donate. We take everything. One thing I want to mention here, before leaving. in case you haven't noticed, until recently in the 1990s Vietnam was classified as 'dirty poor', but now is just as 'poor'. Everything was destroyed in wars. So it will take some time to recover, a lot of waters will flow down the Red river, until we escape poverty.
> 
> By then, we would have funds for new battle tanks. Sad.
> 
> Yes I know the eastern bloc had collapsed, also, the Soviet Union. Otherwise I guess a certain country would think 10 times before advancing any policy of aggression.



that's a very true facts, beside your Air Defense system which is my self admits it was a credible deterrence forces among all ASEAN countries and some token Air Force assets like Su-30 series and your newly purchase of missile boats and Submarine which is a good purchases recently, in all almost all of other combat and assets of entire Vietnam People Army is still being outmatched by your neighbors.

Which made me wonder, why Vietnam need to reassert themselves by pursue their claims in SCS and left their army modernization programme being left and cast aside to give more resources toward Navy, although the very natural enemy for Vietnam is China and some ASEAN continent countries who is had a good relationship with China like Cambodia and Thailand, and all of them came from Vietnam very land border. And your recent great wars against China and Cambodia is happened at land too

just comparing your rusty bucket of BMP-1, old BTR, T-54/55 with the arms of Malaysian army armed with modern IFV, APC and MBTs along with modern ATGM





The compilation Malaysia Armoured Vehicles

Malaysia Armoured warfare or tank warfare is the use of armoured fighting vehicles in modern warfare. It is a major component of modern methods of war. The premise of armoured warfare rests on the ability of troops to penetrate conventional defensive lines through use of manoeuvre by armoured units.









Old and New. Malaysia armour receive upgrading and improvement. The AV8 Gempita also propel Malaysian armoured vehicle into the network centric warfare.





Bakhtar Shikan ATGM





ACV-300 Adnan





Radpanzer Condor will be receiving major upgrade and modernize





ACV-300 81mm Mortar Carrier






A "multi-spectral" camouflage system" fitted to PT-91M Pendekar reduces visual, infrared and radar "signatures", and permits movement. Multi-spectral camouflage conceal PT-91M from detection across several parts of the electromagnetic spectrum at the same time. While traditional military camouflage attempts to hide an object in thevisible spectrum, multi-spectral camouflage also tries to simultaneously hide objects from detection methods such as infrared,radar, and millimetre-wave radar imaging.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> that's a very true facts, beside your Air Defense system which is my self admits it was a credible deterrence forces among all ASEAN countries and some token Air Force assets like Su-30 series and your newly purchase of missile boats and Submarine which is a good purchases recently, in all almost all of other combat and assets of entire Vietnam People Army is still being outmatched by your neighbors.
> 
> Which made me wonder, why Vietnam need to reassert themselves by pursue their claims in SCS and left their army modernization programme being left and cast aside to give more resources toward Navy, although the very natural enemy for Vietnam is China and some ASEAN continent countries who is had a good relationship with China like Cambodia and Thailand, and all of them came from Vietnam very land border. And your recent great wars against China and Cambodia is happened at land too
> 
> just comparing your rusty bucket of BMP-1, old BTR, T-54/55 with the arms of Malaysian army armed with modern IFV, APC and MBTs along with modern ATGM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The compilation Malaysia Armoured Vehicles
> 
> Malaysia Armoured warfare or tank warfare is the use of armoured fighting vehicles in modern warfare. It is a major component of modern methods of war. The premise of armoured warfare rests on the ability of troops to penetrate conventional defensive lines through use of manoeuvre by armoured units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old and New. Malaysia armour receive upgrading and improvement. The AV8 Gempita also propel Malaysian armoured vehicle into the network centric warfare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bakhtar Shikan ATGM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ACV-300 Adnan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Radpanzer Condor will be receiving major upgrade and modernize
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ACV-300 81mm Mortar Carrier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "multi-spectral" camouflage system" fitted to PT-91M Pendekar reduces visual, infrared and radar "signatures", and permits movement. Multi-spectral camouflage conceal PT-91M from detection across several parts of the electromagnetic spectrum at the same time. While traditional military camouflage attempts to hide an object in thevisible spectrum, multi-spectral camouflage also tries to simultaneously hide objects from detection methods such as infrared,radar, and millimetre-wave radar imaging.



Well, if everything in war is about equipment, then USA would it have won easily, right? But it did not.

The Iraqi army had a lot of modern American equipment, but was routed by Daesh, did it not?

You talk about Malaysia and Thailand? I laugh about them, they don't have the balls to fight, which is the most important part. In a possible war with Vietnam, I'd bet for Vietnam 10 to 1.

You talk about true facts, let me give you a true fact that has been proven, the Vietnamese fight until they win, no matter what it takes. Good luck finding that in Thailand and Malaysia.



madokafc said:


> that's a very true facts, beside your Air Defense system which is my self admits it was a credible deterrence forces among all ASEAN countries and some token Air Force assets like Su-30 series and your newly purchase of missile boats and Submarine which is a good purchases recently, in all almost all of other combat and assets of entire Vietnam People Army is still being outmatched by your neighbors.



With a limited budget, Vietnam has to prioritize and as everybody knows, the ground army was the last priority. You keep attacking the priorities chosen by Vietnam and you are ignoring all the good reasons for such priorities. A ground war with China is very unlikely, so is correct for Vietnam to give priority to the navy and air force, but not just that, have to buy the equipment that makes the most difference and that's why Vietnam has been building a very good air defense network with radars optimized to detect stealth fighters (getting ready for the J-20 / J-31) and coastal anti ship missile batteries.

Vietnam buys based on its priorities which are based on its particular defense needs, not based on madokafc priorities or likes.

How many modern tanks and APCs could it have been bought with the 3 billion that went into the 6 Kilos or with the money that went into S-300 and other air defense assets or coastal missile batteries? Right there, that shows that a lot of money is been spent into a lot of assets, but of course you are never going to say anything positive, you can only look for something to criticize, that's why I said before that you are very biased against Vietnam and you keep showing it every time you post something here.

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## Nike

you know what, the latest


Carlosa said:


> Well, if everything in war is about equipment, then USA would it have won easily, right? But it did not.
> 
> The Iraqi army had a lot of modern American equipment, but was routed by Daesh, did it not?
> 
> You talk about Malaysia and Thailand? I laugh about them, they don't have the balls to fight, which is the most important part. In a possible war with Vietnam, I'd bet for Vietnam 10 to 1.
> 
> You talk about true facts, let me give you a true fact that has been proven, the Vietnamese fight until they win, no matter what it takes. Good luck finding that in Thailand and Malaysia.
> 
> 
> 
> With a limited budget, Vietnam has to prioritize and as everybody knows, the ground army was the last priority. You keep attacking the priorities chosen by Vietnam and you are ignoring all the good reasons for such priorities. A ground war with China is very unlikely, so is correct for Vietnam to give priority to the navy and air force, but not just that, have to buy the equipment that makes the most difference and that's why Vietnam has been building a very good air defense network with radars optimized to detect stealth fighters (getting ready for the J-20 / J-31) and coastal anti ship missile batteries.
> 
> Vietnam buys based on its priorities which are based on its particular defense needs, not based on madokafc priorities or likes.
> 
> How many modern tanks and APCs could it have been bought with the 3 billion that went into the 6 Kilos or with the money that went into S-300 and other air defense assets or coastal missile batteries? Right there, that shows that a lot of money is been spent into a lot of assets, but of course you are never going to say anything positive, you can only look for something to criticize, that's why I said before that you are very biased against Vietnam and you keep showing it every time you post something here.



nothing, my statement seem harsh and difficult to digest properly. seem yu forgot the latest rig incident, when PLA amassed their troops near the border and at the same time they increased their surveillance activity even they photographed around the border till Hanoi with their drones. 

One cant measures other "balls" as the current VPA is mostly young people without firsthand exp about war


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> you know what, the latest
> 
> 
> nothing, my statement seem harsh and difficult to digest properly. seem yu forgot the latest rig incident, when PLA amassed their troops near the border and at the same time they increased their surveillance activity even they photographed around the border till Hanoi with their drones.
> 
> One cant measures other "balls" as the current VPA is mostly young people without firsthand exp about war



Amassing troops in the border or increasing surveillance is routine during a conflict, you are the only one implying the possibility of a ground war with China; feel free to show me links of serious articles pointing to such possibility. I have not seen one so far.

Balls are part of the personality / emotional make up of a culture. The vietnamese have not lost that and if you were to be living in Vietnam during the time of the oil rig (as I did) you would it have easily seen it. Foreigners living in Vietnam don't take long to see it, but that's an experience that you don't have.

There is no problem with harsh statements if they are true and are given in a constructive manner, but you always focus on selective things with a doses of sarcasm. 

It was nice to post the article about the 28 T-90MS tanks, but of course you had to insert your own sarcastic comment, that's why I said that every time you post here you show your bias. Or are you going to pretend that you are not biased? How was it that you used to call vietnamese? Gooks, remember? We already know you very well here, so don't try to pretend that you are not what we already know that you are. How would you like it if someone goes to the Indonesian thread and talk about how pathetic the Indonesian air force is and keeps making sarcastic comments? You wouldn't like it right? Well, guess what? We also don't like it when you do that here.

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## Viet

* India and Vietnam: Going beyond Brahmos *
By: Nitin Gokhale | Last Updated: Saturday, 4 June 2016 1:16 PM







Nitin Gokhale

As India’s Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar winds up the Singapore leg of his two-nation, south-east Asia sojourn and heads to Hanoi, the oft-repeated talk about India seeking to sale the Brahmos missile to Vietnam is once again making headlines. Only, unlike in the past, there is a distinct possibility that both India and Vietnam will finally bite the bullet.

All indications now point to the fact that New Delhi has overcome its reservations and dare one say, fear about annoying China in supplying the cruise missile to Vietnam. After years of hesitation and obfuscation, South Block is now set to move forward in finalising the sale of Brahmos missiles to Vietnam. Apparently, co-developers of the missiles, the Russians have also agreed to proposal in principle. While the actual delivery is some distance away, the very fact that India is now openly talking about exporting weapons platforms to friendly countries is in itself a paradigm shift. So far, the squeamish Congress-era decision-makers shied away even from talking about such a possibility. Among potential customers for the Brahmos systems are South Africa, Chile and Philippines besides Vietnam.

Defence Minister Parrikar will of course have much more to talk about with his Vietnamese counterpart than just the sale of Brahmos missiles. Singapore, Vietnam besides South Korea and Philippines are important nations that India is reaching out to aggressively in South Asia . As part of the tweaked Act East policy a more robust military-to-military partnership with important nations in south-east Asia is also underway.





FILE PIC: AFP

Vietnam and India of course have some things in common. To begin with, both have borne the brunt of Chinese aggression — India in 1962 and Vietnam in 1979. Both India and Vietnam, who have long-pending territorial disputes with China thus decided to unite against their common adversary,. Although India refuses to directly intervene in the South China Sea dispute, it indirectly supports nations like Vietnam, Philippines and Indonesia on the stand that they take with regard to the South China Sea.

Moreover, the collapse of the Soviet Union, for long a security guarantor for both India and Vietnam in Asia, left New Delhi and Hanoi without an all-weather, all-powerful friend in the 1990s.

Both New Delhi and Hanoi had traditionally sourced majority of their military hardware from the erstwhile Soviet Union. That commonality has meant that both can share expertise and resources available with their respective armed forces in terms of handling and maintaining the Soviet-era weaponry.

India, for instance, has repaired and upgraded over 100 MiG 21 planes of the Vietnamese Air Force and supplied them with enhanced avionics and radar systems. Indian Air Force pilots have also been training their Vietnamese counterparts. The Indian Navy, by far larger than the Vietnamese navy, has been supplying critical spares to Hanoi for its Russian origin ships and missile boats.

High level political visits between India and Vietnam have also been more frequent. In September 2014, President Pranab Mukherjee was in Vietnam, 24 hours before Chinese President Xi Jingping was due in India. Within a month of Mukherjee’s visit Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung was in India within a month to take the bilateral relationship to the next level. Parrikar’s visit is in continuation of that process.

The Defence Minister is accompanied by Defence Secretary, G. Mohan Kumar, C-in-C, Eastern Naval Command, VAdm SCS Bisht, DG Air Operations, Air Mar Anil Khosla and DG, DRDO S. Christopher, besides others. High level visits apart, the Indian Navy has been quite active in its friendly forays in South-East Asia. Meanwhile, a flotilla of Indian warships is on a 75-day deployment to the Indo-Asia-Pacific.

The Indian Navy’s Eastern Fleet is ‘Acting East’ with four of its ships en route to the seas east of the Malacca Straits, an area of maritime interest to the Indian Navy. In a press release, India’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) said that the four ships, the INS Satpura, Sahayadri, Shakti and Kirch under the command of the Flag Officer Commanding Eastern Fleet Rear Admiral SV Bhokare had sailed out on 18 May 16 on a 2½ month long operational deployment to the South China and North West Pacific. During this overseas deployment, the ships of Eastern Fleet will make port calls at Cam Rahn Bay (Vietnam), Subic Bay (Philippines), Sasebo (Japan), Busan (South Korea), Vladivostok (Russia) and Port Klang (Malaysia). In addition to showing the Flag in this region of vital strategic importance to India, these ships will also participate in MALABAR-16, a maritime exercise with the US Navy and the Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Forces or the Japanese navy.

Parrikar is expected to reiterate India’s position on freedom of navigation as stated in the Indo-US joint Strategic Vision for the Asia-Pacific and the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) which affirms the importance of safeguarding maritime security and ensuring freedom of navigation and over flight throughout the region, especially in the South China Sea.

The Vision Document, released during President Obama’s India visit in January 2015, also calls on all parties to avoid the threat or use of force and pursue resolution of territorial and maritime disputes through all peaceful means, in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), a position that Vietnam too subscribes to. Beijing may be unhappy with the growing closeness between New Delhi and Hanoi but it can do little on this front except issuing occasional statements. In that sense India’s effort to deepen engagement with Vietnam and goes much beyond just selling a deadly missile to a friendly nation.

Whatever the consequences of this strategy and counter-strategy, one thing is sure: The Indo-Asia-Pacific region is poised to become the new playground for the 21st century version of the Great Game in the years to come.

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## Viet

Vietnam made ground-to-air missile Igla (9P516). maximum range of 5,200 meters, maximum altitude of 3,500 meters, IR guidance system, 2 kilogram high-explosive warhead fitted with a contact and grazing fuse. all warships including submarines reportedly have Igla missiles aboard.

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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 
You aren't well informed about Croats...

Origin of Croatian people is over 3000 years old as Sarasvati people of India, Godness of Learning and over 2000 years ago Croats were in Iran and over 1500 years ago on northern slavic territories.of todays Poland and Ukraine...

Maori are Maori, you are thinking aboug Tarara people that are descendants of male dalmatian and maori female. Those are Tarara people that exist for over a century.

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## Viet

Yugo, I'm not sure if either you or me is the one who starts talking off-topic stuffs.

Maybe it is better you can provide some ideas how Vietnam increases firepower with little money.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Maybe it is better you can provide some ideas how Vietnam increases firepower with little money.



Javelin anti tank missiles from USA.

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## CountStrike

*Vietnam, South Korea may buy Lockheed planes amid Chinese buildup*

REUTERS/TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 06/06/2016 08:09 GMT + 7





PrevNext
*BERLIN -- Vietnam and South Korea are looking seriously at buying refurbished Lockheed Martin Corp P-3 and S-3 maritime surveillance planes to counter China's military buildup and repeated North Korean missile launches, the company said.*

Vietnam is expected to request formal pricing and availability data on four to six older U.S. Navy P-3 Orion aircraft in the next few months, Clay Fearnow, a senior executive with Lockheed's aeronautics division, told Reuters at the Berlin air show last week.

The Obama administration's move to completely lift its arms embargo on Vietnam last month paved the way for such a sale, but any deal would still have to be carefully reviewed by the U.S. government, according to U.S. and Lockheed officials.

Washington's decision to permit lethal arms sales to Vietnam, its former enemy, underscored both countries' shared concerns about China's growing military clout.

Vietnam, which borders China, is also a key part of President Barack Obama's efforts to rebalance U.S. strategy toward Asia amid worries about Beijing's assertiveness and sovereignty claims to 80 percent of the East Vietnam Sea.

If the sale goes through, retired U.S. Navy P-3 turboprop planes now parked in a desert would be rebuilt with new wings, a new mission system and anti-submarine warfare equipment for Vietnam, Fearnow said.

The cost could exceed the $80 million to $90 million price tag for each of the 12 P-3s rebuilt for Taiwan several years ago, given the added equipment, Fearnow said.

Lockheed has built new wings or rebuilt aircraft for over 90 P-3 aircraft around the world, including the United States, Norway, Taiwan, Chile and Germany, since 2008, with some orders still in the works, Fearnow said.

The company is scrambling to drum up more orders and extend its wing production line in Marietta, Georgia.

Brazil and South Korea are each looking at ordering new wings for existing aircraft, but must decide by Sept. 1 to avoid a potentially costly gap in the supply chain for the wings, he said.

Boeing Co is also marketing its P-8 Poseidon maritime surveillance plane, but it is significantly newer and more expensive than the P-3. Another possible competitor is Airbus Group SE's C295 plane, which is built in Spain.

The U.S. State Department said it could not comment on potential P-3 or S-3 sales until it formally notifies the U.S. Congress.

In addition to South Korea's interest in new wings for eight of its P-3s, Seoul is also looking at acquiring 12 of the U.S. Navy's S-3 aircraft, which were retired in 2009 and are now parked in a desert, Fearnow said.

He said Spain, Portugal and Argentina also had P-3 aircraft that could use new wings, but those countries all face budget pressures. Japan, which has about 100 P-3 aircraft, is replacing them with its own P-1 aircraft, and the U.S. Navy is replacing its P-3 fleet with the Boeing P-8s.

The Philippines also wants to expand its maritime surveillance capabilities, but is still defining its requirements, Fearnow said.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/international...-may-buy-lockheed-planes-amid-chinese-buildup

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## Viet

Carlosa, interesting news isn´t it?

for the first time ever, Lockheed confirms Vietnam intention of buying 4-6 P-3 aircraft. with new wings, a new mission system and anti-submarine warfare equipment. even the price is quoted: more than $90 million a plane. maybe $100 million end price for Vietnam, with probably all equippments and weaponry included.

$600 million if we buy 6 planes.

do you know how much is a C295 plane with similar configuration, which is built in Spain?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, interesting news isn´t it?
> 
> for the first time ever, Lockheed confirms Vietnam intention of buying 4-6 P-3 aircraft. with new wings, a new mission system and anti-submarine warfare equipment. even the price is quoted: more than $90 million a plane. maybe $100 million end price for Vietnam, with probably all equippments and weaponry included.
> 
> $600 million if we buy 6 planes.
> 
> do you know how much is a C295 plane with similar configuration, which is built in Spain?



I don't really know, but the strange thing is that Taiwan paid only $55 million for each upgraded P-3C, so this price is a bit high unless there is something else included there.

The C-295 is probably cheaper, but there is a reason why everybody prefers the P-3C (except the ones that can afford the P-8 of course).

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## Aqsuperman

Until the contract is signed there is little thing to be sure of. May buy or interested at or looking for are quite superficial.

After the visit of President Obama, a lot of Antonov landing lately. Wonder if they are carrying some T-90s ? Su-22M4 attacker in the background

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Javelin anti tank missiles from USA.


can the rocket penetrate heavily armored chinese tanks?


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## Viet

*Will U.S. arms sales to Vietnam alter the military balance in the South China Sea?*
A Military Analysis


By Franz-Stefan Gady for The Diplomat
June 06, 2016








With the recent announcement by U.S. President Barack Obama that the United States will lift a decades-old embargo on the sale of military equipment to Vietnam, the question arises—given that the president’s decision is partially seen as a move to counterbalance China’s growing military power in the region—in what way a U.S.-Vietnamese weapons deal could potentially influence the military balance in the region, and in particular, the South China Sea.

Vietnam has expressed interest in a number of used U.S. military platforms including F-16 A/B fighter jets, refurbished P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft armed with torpedoes, and unarmed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to be used for monitoring the country’s territorial waters and the surveilling of the larger South China Sea. There have also been discussions over U.S. radar and surveillance equipment and boosting Vietnam’s electronic warfare capabilities.

Any U.S. sale to Vietnam would be done under the so-called Excess Defense Articles program, which offers used U.S. military hardware to partner nations at a reduced price and is run by the Pentagon. Vietnam’s Coast Guard is already in the process of purchasing six U.S.-made Metal Shark Defiant 75 patrol vessels for which the United States provided $18 million in loans.

Leaving political issues that could unravel a U.S.-Vietnamese defense deal aside for the moment—including lack of progress on improving civil liberties, human rights, and holding more transparent and open elections in Vietnam—should Hanoi opt to purchase U.S. hardware, the impact on the fighting capabilities of the Vietnam People’s Armed Forces (VPAF) will be gradual rather than abrupt and stretch out over many years for a number of reasons.

For one thing, it would require putting the necessary support structure in place for U.S. aircraft including the construction of maintenance facilities for overhauling the planes, although larger upgrades would still have to be done in the United States. It would also require the training of pilots, ground crews, and technicians on the new aircraft and weapons systems, which will necessitate the presence of U.S. advisors and instructors in the country. All of this could not be done overnight and would entail a multi-year U.S. commitment.

However, while the influx of U.S. military hardware in the region will most assuredly have an impact, it remains to be seen to what extent it will increase Vietnam’s deterrence capabilities against China—the primary reason for any VPAF arms acquisition. This will largely be dependent on two-factors: first, the level of training of VPAF personnel on the new platforms; and second, the VPAF’s ability to integrate U.S. hardware with the rest of the military, which primarily consists of Russian-made and Soviet legacy weapons platforms.

Vietnam’s military planning vis-à-vis China is defensive in nature and built around A2/AD—or anti-access and areal denial strategies, exploiting asymmetrical advantages by, for example, fielding new diesel-electric submarines to exploit China’s known weakness in anti-submarine warfare. All of this requires enhanced maritime domain awareness (MDA) and early warning systems in place and the establishment of a so-called kill chain linking “‘see-ers and shooters,’” as one analyst recently put it.

Vietnam’s ultimate goal is to deter China from deploying People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) vessels in so-called gray zone coercion scenarios, which involves the use of China Coast Guard (CCG) and maritime militia vessels to blockade Vietnamese-held islands and features in the South China Sea while avoiding open military conflict.

Equipment such as the refurbished P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft armed with torpedoes would significantly increase the VPAF’s deterrence capability in that respect. Specifically, it would boost the Vietnamese military’s surface and anti-submarine warfare capabilities by complementing its burgeoning fleet of six Russian-made 4,000-ton Type 636 _Kilo_-class diesel-electric submarines (five of which have been delivered so far).

Hanoi has also been acquiring a number of anti-ship and land attack cruise missiles, including the 3M-14E _Klub_ supersonic cruise missile capable of hitting mainland China, giving it an additional powerful deterrent. Moreover, Vietnam has been upgrading its defensive missile systems, procuring Russian-made K-300P Bastion coastal missile systems in 2011 and S-300 PMU-2 long-range surface-to-air missile systems in 2012, in addition to upgrading coastal surveillance radar systems.

Furthermore, Vietnam operates 32 Su-30MK2V fighter aircraft optimized for maritime support functions and equipped with the Kh-31 (AS-17 Krypton) anti-ship missiles. The Vietnam People’s Air Force (VPA) is also allegedly interested in procuring a squadron of two-engine Sukhoi Su-35S multirole fighter jets—perhaps a more suitable aircraft for maritime patrols than the single-engine F-16 fighter jet.

So could U.S. military equipment alter the military balance in the South China Sea?

As outlined above, this will depend on both effective training and the ability to successfully integrate new weapons systems within existing military structures.

The paragraphs above show that Russia remains Vietnam’s most important “long-time partner in the field of bilateral military-technical cooperation, although the relationship is not entirely frictionless,” as I noted previously. The military hardware Russia has provided Vietnam, in comparison to U.S. systems, is more capable and has fewer strings attached to it than Washington’s offers. Vietnam also has experience in handling Russian-made equipment for the past decades, whereas it has none with U.S. military hardware.

When it comes to training, the VPAF has experienced limitations in the past and is only slowly conducting more comprehensive and dynamic exercises including practicing combined arms operations and the integration of air, ground, and naval assets in combat operations. The number of military-to-military training exchanges has also increased and Vietnamese submariners are currently undergoing training in undersea warfare doctrine and tactics at India’s _INS Satavahana_ submarine center. Several deficiencies including in pilot training, however, remain.

While it is a possibility that Vietnam will find means to effectively integrate U.S. systems into its Russian-hardware dominated forces, the example of Malaysia—a country that operates both Russian and NATO systems—shows that it is highly inefficient and costly to try to operate both in the long run. In addition, it remains to be seen whether Vietnam can develop new doctrines and tactics to integrate all new weapons systems into the country’s counter-intervention strategy.

Overall, the successful integration and training on new U.S. military platforms will most certainly increase the combat capability of the VPAF, and as a result, will impact Chinese actions in the South China Sea. However, the addition of F-16 fighter aircraft, P-3C Orion, UAVs, and maritime intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) assets will not fundamentally alter the military balance between China and Vietnam.

Given that a full-scale war scenario between the two countries is unlikely, the mere presence of Vietnamese submarines in the South China Sea, whether or not they are part of an integrated kill-chain and linked with other military assets, will perhaps be sufficient to deter aggressive Chinese maritime actions in the foreseeable future.

_This article has previously been published on _ChinaUSFocus.com_. _

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## Soryu

madokafc said:


> that's a very true facts, beside your Air Defense system which is my self admits it was a credible deterrence forces among all ASEAN countries and some token Air Force assets like Su-30 series and your newly purchase of missile boats and Submarine which is a good purchases recently, in all almost all of other combat and assets of entire Vietnam People Army is still being outmatched by your neighbors.
> 
> Which made me wonder, why Vietnam need to reassert themselves by pursue their claims in SCS and left their army modernization programme being left and cast aside to give more resources toward Navy, although the very natural enemy for Vietnam is China and some ASEAN continent countries who is had a good relationship with China like Cambodia and Thailand, and all of them came from Vietnam very land border. And your recent great wars against China and Cambodia is happened at land too
> 
> just comparing your rusty bucket of BMP-1, old BTR, T-54/55 with the arms of Malaysian army armed with modern IFV, APC and MBTs along with modern ATGM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The compilation Malaysia Armoured Vehicles
> 
> Malaysia Armoured warfare or tank warfare is the use of armoured fighting vehicles in modern warfare. It is a major component of modern methods of war. The premise of armoured warfare rests on the ability of troops to penetrate conventional defensive lines through use of manoeuvre by armoured units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old and New. Malaysia armour receive upgrading and improvement. The AV8 Gempita also propel Malaysian armoured vehicle into the network centric warfare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bakhtar Shikan ATGM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ACV-300 Adnan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Radpanzer Condor will be receiving major upgrade and modernize
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ACV-300 81mm Mortar Carrier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "multi-spectral" camouflage system" fitted to PT-91M Pendekar reduces visual, infrared and radar "signatures", and permits movement. Multi-spectral camouflage conceal PT-91M from detection across several parts of the electromagnetic spectrum at the same time. While traditional military camouflage attempts to hide an object in thevisible spectrum, multi-spectral camouflage also tries to simultaneously hide objects from detection methods such as infrared,radar, and millimetre-wave radar imaging.



Nothern border with China is mountains terran, which was hard to deploy heavy toy like tank, and we have alot of ATGM, RPG, drones and artillery, rockets to feed them good.
Laos is our good friend.
Cambodia !? They got their problems with Thailand and their army, airforce ... in poor condition compare to us. And Mr. Hunsen still hold main power, he know very well about us, and would not do anything stupid.

So we used our fund in necessary place like navy and airforce ...

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## Viet

Soldiers guarding the islands in the SC Sea. Judging their military clothing's, they are from branches: the Marines, local military infantry, Coast Guard, Air Force and Naval soldiers.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> can the rocket penetrate heavily armored chinese tanks?



Yes, easily because the missile goes up when approaching the target and then comes down and hits the top of the tank where the armor is very thin.

Javelin is probably the best anti tank missile in the world right now.

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## Jason Zhao

William Hung said:


> Yea I remembered reading something like that about the Su-34. Plus, I suspect the operating cost of the Su-34 would be higher than the Growler, especially when the Su-34 can only purchased in very limited number and another naval strike platform needs to be purchased along with it.
> 
> Anyway here is a quote from a former US diplomat:
> 
> 
> 
> I remembered there was another subscription article talking about a possible announcement more detailed but I can’t access those right now cos Im not on my computer. I will give a proper reply another time.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi friend, long time no see. I remember you are a Chinese journalist right?
> 
> You are very welcome here my friend but if there are any comments that you are not happy about, I recommend you to just ignore it, or report it or open a new thread to talk about it. We are trying to keep this thread on topic. Thanks friend.


Hi Friend, I am not journalist, I am business man~~ It is OK, this topic, I do not know what I should say, so Just send the emotion picture for kidding~~haha, I am ok, do not worry~~


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## Viet

Farewell to *Muhammad Ali*, a great man, the greatest boxer of all time








Asked why he opposed the *Vietnam war*, refusing to be inducted into the armed forces.

“I got nothing against the Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me a nigger.

Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?

No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over.

This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality.… If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs.

So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”

I strongly object to the fact that so many newspapers have given the American public and the world the impression that I have only two alternatives in taking this stand: either I go to jail or go to the Army. There is another alternative and that alternative is justice. If justice prevails, if my Constitutional rights are upheld, I will be forced to go neither to the Army nor jail.

In the end I am confident that justice will come my way for the truth must eventually prevail.”

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## Viet

Coming home!

The remains of 33 Australian soldiers, killed in the battle of Vietnam. Australia sent 61,000 servicemen and women to support America during the Vietnam war. 521 were killed.


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## indopak

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739822303635066880

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739759166437220353

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## Carlosa

indopak said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739822303635066880
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739759166437220353



Great news man, thank you. Please keep us informed and try to get us some details about those ships.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam, India enhance defence cooperation*

VNA MONDAY, JUNE 06, 2016 




Minister of Defence Ngo Xuan Lich (R) welcomes visiting Indian counterpart Manohar Parrika (Photo: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* – Minister of Defence Ngo Xuan Lich and his visiting Indian counterpart Manohar Parrika agreed to deepen bilateral defence ties at their talks in Hanoi on June 5.

Manohar Parrika is paying an official visit to Vietnam, his first as Defence Minister, from June 5-8.

The two ministers shared the view that the cooperation should focus on delegation exchanges and high-quality human resources training, and be in accordance with the Joint Vision Statement on Vietnam-India Defence Cooperation for the 2015-2020 period.

The defence relations should be lifted to match the Vietnam-India strategic partnership for the sake of mutual development as well as of peace, stability in the region and around the world.

The Indian minister confirmed that Vietnam is an important partner of India in the region and his country wants to develop friendship and cooperation with the Southeast Asian nation in the interest of both nations.

Minister Lich, in turn, said India is a close friend and key partner of Vietnam, adding that Vietnam gives priority to strengthening the comprehensive rapport with India.

During his stay in Vietnam, the Indian Minister is scheduled to attend a meeting between Vietnamese and Indian defence industry businesses and visit some units of the Vietnam People’s Army.-VNA

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## Water Car Engineer

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/739759644902445056
So the warships are OPVs. Missiles?

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## cochine

Viet said:


> Farewell to *Muhammad Ali*, a great man, the greatest boxer of all time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asked why he opposed the *Vietnam war*, refusing to be inducted into the armed forces.
> 
> “I got nothing against the Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me a nigger.
> 
> Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?
> 
> No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over.
> 
> This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality.… If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs.
> 
> So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”
> 
> I strongly object to the fact that so many newspapers have given the American public and the world the impression that I have only two alternatives in taking this stand: either I go to jail or go to the Army. There is another alternative and that alternative is justice. If justice prevails, if my Constitutional rights are upheld, I will be forced to go neither to the Army nor jail.
> 
> In the end I am confident that justice will come my way for the truth must eventually prevail.”



He is anti-vietnam war american, he visited Vietnam in 1994.


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## Viet

*How Vietnam Can Stop the South China Sea ADIZ*
Hanoi can break China’s stride.

Alexander Vuving
June 6, 2016








What is China’s next big move in the South China Sea? Ask the experts this question and tally their predictions. The action that will get the most votes is likely to be the imposition of an air defense identification zone (ADIZ). Indeed, a widespread view among the South China Sea watchers is that China will sooner or later declare an ADIZ in this semi-closed maritime domain, where it has reclaimed thousands of acres of land to build long airstrips, high-frequency radars, stationed combat aircraft and long-range missiles.

This view is undergirded by two assumptions. The first is that Beijing is willing to accept high costs, while an ADIZ will bring enormous benefits to China. The second assumption is that there will be a moment when circumstances raise either the costs for China’s rivals to retaliate, the benefits for China to impose an ADIZ, or both. Consequently, declaring an ADIZ is a matter of timing, as China is waiting for the opportunity that maximizes the cost-benefit ratio of this action.








Vietnam FIR






_Director Lai Xuan Thanh of the Vietnam´s Civil Aviation Authority_


From this perspective, the idea of an ADIZ is particularly attractive when the hands of China’s rivals are tied or when an ADIZ can prevent or compensate for some of China’s anticipated losses. Such an opportunity is looming large in these months as the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague is expected to reject China’s nine-dash line, the central basis of Beijing’s maritime claims in the South China Sea. Not only can an ADIZ fill in an important part of the legal vacuum that will emerge if the nine-dash line is widely believed as illegal; an ADIZ can impose more restrictions than the nine-dash line. Adding to this estimation is a recent report citing sources close to the Chinese military as saying that China is preparing an ADIZ in the South China Sea.

So, is a Chinese ADIZ in the South China Sea really a matter of time? The answer appears to be affirmative, until you ask a different question: Can China’s rivals prevent an ADIZ in the South China Sea? An investigation into the latter question suggests that China’s ADIZ in the South China Sea is not a matter of timing but one of interaction. More specifically, China’s rivals hold powerful cards in this game, and some of the cards in Vietnam’s hands may be formidable enough to deter China from formally declaring an ADIZ in this region.

What might be the reaction of key players to China’s South China Sea ADIZ? As a non-claimant, the United States has limited options. In a similar way to its actions against China’s East China Sea ADIZ two years ago, Washington can send its bombers and fighters to the area to register its rejection of China’s decision. Washington can also deploy more assets to the region, increase the number of its patrols and dispatch its vessels and aircraft closer to the Chinese-held islands. But even if the United States could triple its military presence from the current level of seven hundred trips a year, this would still be no match to the hundreds of Chinese armed vessels that are the region’s permanent residents.

The Philippines has few options left after already having used some of its strong cards. Manila has launched a legal action against China in the Permanent Court of Arbitration, and it has allowed Washington to use five of its air and land bases. If China imposes an ADIZ, however, the Philippines and the United States can upgrade their Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement, and add the three naval bases initially offered by Manila but not taken by Washington to the list of places that can be used by U.S. rotational forces. Two of these three are Naval Station Carlito Cunanan in Ulugan Bay on the western coast of Palawan Island and Naval Station San Miguel in Zambales Province. While Carlito Cunanan is the major naval base closest to the center of the Spratly Islands, San Miguel is the naval base closest to Scarborough Shoal. These two bases can immensely enhance the U.S. Navy’s ability to respond to contingencies in the South China Sea.


*Vietnam can declare own ADIZ over the SC Sea and take China to court*

Malaysia and Vietnam can follow in the Philippines’ footsteps and take China to court, as well as grant Washington more and better access to their naval and air facilities along the South China Sea coast. In this regard, Vietnam has far more potential than Malaysia to make China hesitate to declare an ADIZ. While Malaysian bases such as Labuan and Bintulu lie in the far south, Cam Ranh Bay and Da Nang on Vietnam’s central coast offer the best locations to neutralize the effects of China’s artificial islands in the Spratlys and Paracels.






_General Nguyễn Chí Vịnh_


And with its longer and more impressive record of China’s aggression in the South China Sea, Vietnam can put enormous pressure on Beijing if it files a lawsuit against its giant neighbor. Although Hanoi shied away from suing China in the past, a Chinese ADIZ that impinges on Vietnam’s airspace can be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. 

Commenting on a possible Chinese ADIZ in the South China Sea, Vietnam’s top defense diplomat Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh said that it would be “more dangerous than even the nine-dash line” and it would “kill” Vietnam.

Finally, the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam can declare their own ADIZ to reciprocate against China’s. This in-kind response is politically more feasible than granting the United States access to bases and launching a legal action against China. The legal action requires that Vietnam and Malaysia have exhausted other diplomatic means. Domestic and ideological concerns in both countries are likely to limit the access granted to Washington to an extent insufficient to deter China. But even a combination of a Malaysian and a Philippine ADIZ would not really hurt China. Poor enforcement aside, they would not change the basic terms of the bargain with Beijing.


*Vietnam ADIZ over the Paracel Islands *

Contrarily, a Vietnamese ADIZ that covers the Paracel Islands could cause the damage that China would rather avoid. While China acknowledges a dispute over the Spratlys, it denies any dispute over the Paracels. A Vietnamese ADIZ, although not a territorial claim itself, and likely to be poorly enforced, can create some sort of Vietnamese administration over the Paracels, something that China has eliminated since 1974. What’s more, it can also provide a legal basis for Vietnam to carry out actions that can be interpreted as exercising sovereignty over the islands.

The above analysis shows that China’s ADIZ in the South China Sea is not a matter of timing; rather, it critically depends on how China’s rivals will react to it. In this game of poker, the United States, the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam hold some strong cards, though China can also up the ante. Some of the most formidable cards lie in Vietnam’s hands. 

Imposing an ADIZ over the Paracels and granting U.S. forces regular access to some strategic places on Vietnam’s Central Coast can be game changers. If credibly signaled, they can deter China from declaring a formal ADIZ in the South China Sea. But Beijing can bet, for good reasons, that Hanoi (and Washington) may regard them not worth the risk. In any case, decisions in Hanoi can switch decisions in Beijing.

_Alexander L. Vuving is Professor at the Daniel K. Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies. The views expressed in this article are his own and do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S. government, the Department of Defense or DKI-APCSS. He tweets __@Alex_Vuving_.

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## Viet

Vietnam´s land based network of *Surveillance VHF radar *antenna, with any station having range of 450 km, cover an area that is larger than FIR Ho Chi Minh and FIR Hanoi. including part of southern China, Laos, Cambodia, part of the Gulf of Thailand.


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## Viet

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/france-wan...e-their-presence-felt-south-china-sea-1563989


We welcome a new guest to the beach party, who wants to become one of the major players in the muddled waters of the SC Sea: France.

After the French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian donated the bomb at the Singapore Security Summit, when he pushed for "regular and visible" presence of European navies, General Ngo Xuan Lich greets him at the Army Headquarters for a 3-day visit. one of the outcomes is this: Vietnam agrees to facilitate the operation of French businesses specialising in *defence industry* in Vietnam, particularly in areas of France’s strengths and Vietnam’s demands.


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## Viet

*Early Warning Radar*

Carlosa, what do you think of this: we ask Russia for help in building a network of Early Warning Radars, similar to the Voronezh-class, that is currently deployed in Russia as part of Strategic missile defence shield.

Specs: using three frequency bands VHF, UHF and EHF. system's range is up to 6,000 km, capable of detecting objects (as small as a size of a soccer ball) at a height of up to 4,000 km, detecting ballistic missiles and aircraft, tracking up to 500 objects simultaneously. cost: $20 million per station. power consumption: 10 MW per station.

Having such a system in place, covering most parts of China controlled airspace on mainland and at sea, would give us a tool to keep track all of their movements.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Early Warning Radar*
> 
> Carlosa, what do you think of this: we ask Russia for help in building a network of Early Warning Radars, similar to the Voronezh-class, that is currently deployed in Russia as part of Strategic missile defence shield.
> 
> Specs: using three frequency bands VHF, UHF and EHF. system's range is up to 6,000 km, capable of detecting objects (as small as a size of a soccer ball) at a height of up to 4,000 km, detecting ballistic missiles and aircraft, tracking up to 500 objects simultaneously. cost: $20 million per station. power consumption: 10 MW per station.
> 
> Having such a system in place, covering most parts of China controlled airspace on mainland and at sea, would give us a tool to keep track all of their movements.



Yes, the Voronezh OTH radars would cover the whole of China, can point one towards the north to cover China and one towards the east to cover the whole of the SCS. I used to talk about this 2 or 3 years ago (I think at the MP forum), but I'm not sure Russia would sell them to Vietnam.

By the way, Today Russia declared the Iskander missile a prohibited weapon for export because it can carry nuclear warheads. Vietnam should go to Israel and buy the Lora ballistic missile then.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, the Voronezh OTH radars would cover the whole of China, can point one towards the north to cover China and one towards the east to cover the whole of the SCS. I used to talk about this 2 or 3 years ago (I think at the MP forum), but I'm not sure Russia would sell them to Vietnam.
> 
> By the way, Today Russia declared the Iskander missile a prohibited weapon for export because it can carry nuclear warheads. Vietnam should go to Israel and buy the Lora ballistic missile then.


I believe that becomes the norm. every time if we want to buy some advanced toys from Russia, as soon as the Chinese notice the news, they approach the Russians, offering enough money to sabotage the deals. How would you say it? it is bribe? all hands up to 1,000 years Russia-China friendship.

Is Israel willing to sell ballistic missile technology?

anyway, we send from this forum many greetings the great leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-un. his special envoy Choe Thae-bok is currently visiting Vietnam. the question may arise during the summit if they can help us advancing our ballistic missile program? making our Hwasong-5 and -6 ballistic missiles with a range of max 500 km, flying further, carrying more load, hitting target with more accuracy.








Vietnam´s Hwasong short range ballistic missiles

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## Carlosa

Larsen & Toubro (L&T) could soon build Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) for Vietnam.

The bid document was handed over by Vietnamese border guards to L&T in the presence of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar during an industry interaction in Hanoi on Monday. Mr. Parrikar is on a two-day visit to Vietnam from June 5 after attending the Shangri-La dialogue in Singapore.

He held a meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart, General Ngo Xuan Lich where both sides agreed on greater industry-to-industry interaction.

Mr. Parrikar later attended a business roundtable meeting comprising defence industry delegates from the two countries.

*Enhanced co-operation*
“The meeting focussed on enhancing defence industry networking, information sharing and exploration of possibilities for partnerships and collaborations between the two countries,” according to a Defence Ministry statement. The purchase will be funded through a $100 million Line of Credit (LoC) India had extended to Vietnam for military purchases.

Vietnam has embarked on a major modernisation of its armed forces and both countries operate a wide range of Russian equipment.

A Memorandum of Understanding for the LoC was signed during President Pranab Mukherjee’s visit to Hanoi in September 2014.

During his visit, Mr. Parrikar also called on the President of Vietnam, Tran Dai Quang and Prime Minister, Nguyen Xuan Phuc.

http://www.thehindu.com/business/In...patrol-vessels-for-vietnam/article8697433.ece






This article is courtesy of @Water Car Engineer

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## Viet

Industry 
*BAE Systems sets sights on Vietnam*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
07 June 2016
http://www.janes.com/article/61016/bae-systems-sets-sights-on-vietnam


BAE Systems is undertaking a project to expand its understanding of Vietnam, with a view to potential market penetration. The move coincides with the United States' recent decision to lift its long-standing military embargo on the Southeast Asian country.

Nick Glover, BAE Systems' Southeast Asia vice president, told _IHS Jane's_ recently that the company is "assessing" Vietnam and potential opportunities, not only in its defence market but in adjacent sectors such as homeland security.

"Vietnam could be an interesting market," he said. "We have been assessing industrial capability within the country and we are looking at potential opportunities. It could be a market where we look to enter through Applied Intelligence [BAE Systems' cyber security division] or our HADR [Humanitarian Assistance, Disaster Relief] products."

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## Carlosa

Vietnam’s only all-female air defense cannon company

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 06/06/2016 10:04 GMT + 7





*An all-female air defense company of military cannoneers, the only one of its kind in Vietnam, is not something one expects to see every day.*

Members of the Militiawomen Company 4 of Dong Lam Commune, located in Tien Hai District in the northern province of Thai Binh, ensure that they always comply with the stringent, army-like discipline.

Busy as farmers, they are always willing to put aside their work to be on duty at their unit around the clock on certain days in a week.

Following a siren on a typical day recently, it took only two minutes for the women to get into position on the cannon plate.

The single-barrel 37-milimeter flak cannon has been in use since 1967, and is still functioning well after nearly five decades.

“We have maintained a strict duty schedule with a battery on round-the-clock standby to detect targets and come up with combat approaches,” Huong Ly, the company chief, said.

The battery is also tasked with announcing daily flight schedules from the provincial Military Command and relevant units, in addition to conducting patrols, standing guard, and mobilizing forces to ensure maximum security on major public holidays and during political events at central and local levels, she added.

“The all-female air defense cannon company is unique nationwide,” Senior Lieutenant Pham Van Dong, officer of Tien Hai District Military Command, beamed with pride.

The battery’s youngest member is Tran Thi Luong, 32, while the most experienced is Luong Thi Duong, the company’s deputy chief, who has been onboard for 14 years now.

Exposed to the scorching sun and performing strenuous maneuvers with the cannon during drills, the women all have suntanned skin, wiry hair, coarse- faces and rough hands.

The current company’s predecessor was the all-female Tien Hai District Militia Company, which was formed in December 1967 and was made up of 82 militiawomen aged 18 to 25.

The forerunner was tasked with safeguarding the Lan sewage pipe system, which supplied irrigation water to 40,000 hectares of paddy fields in the province’s four southern districts.

They were also integral to the protection of three bridges on one of the district’s arteries, and keeping a tight rein on enemy aircraft’s activity at the estuaries to the Hong River, one of the northern region’s major waterways, and the Tra Ly River.

When the American war in Vietnam ended in 1975, the forerunning company had been engaged in 129 battles of different scales, shot down two U.S. planes, and along with a local soldier company, gunned down and damaged four others.

The unit, which was named ‘[People’s Armed Forces Heroic Unit’ in December 1973, continued to function until 1984, when it was handed over to the administration of Dong Lam Commune People’s Committee and had its name changed into the current Militiawomen Company 4.

The unit, now tasked with safeguarding the province’s southern sky, has worked seamlessly on a regular basis with major military entities including Radar Station 25, Air Defense-Air Force Division 363 and Military Zone 3’s Division 395 in devising combat approaches.

The company has a current membership of 40 and a battery operating day and night.

On the country’s special occasions, such as the 12th National Congress of the Communist Party of Vietnam, held in January 2016, two cannons are invariably in place for action.

*Boundless dedication, passion*

Its members spend every Wednesday training rigorously on the drill grounds.

Maneuvers include getting the cannons ready and moving the barrels upward and downward, which require only three men, but up to 10 women, to perform.

Such taxing drills drain the women out physically.

Many of its members have difficulty eking out a living, as monthly militia allowances of nearly VND3 million (US$133) hardly suffices.

But for their profound respect of the company’s glorious past and ceaseless passion for artillery, they would likely seek jobs as workers at Tien Hai Industrial Park in the vicinity, which can earn them double what they can as a militiawoman.

“I met with fierce family objection before finally joining the company in 2012,” 32-year-old Luong, the battery’s youngest member, recalled.

She has managed to gain her husband’s support for her indulgence, and trusted him with caring for their young children as well as household chores.

Ly, the company chief, who has been on the job for almost 10 years, shared that she has been infatuated with weaponry and nurtured her dream of becoming a cannon militiawoman since a child.

“I was involved from 2001 to 2009, before I got married and stayed home to nurse my baby,” she added.

“I later insisted that my husband allow me to return to my dream job. He didn’t give his permission until early last year, when our son turned four.”

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## Viet

June 6, Bedford (Virginia/ United States)

Congratulation to Lapthe Flora, a native of Saigon, the former poor Vietnamese boat refugee becomes *Brigadier General *of the Virginia National Guard.

He has come a long way. Born as son of a South Vietnamese merchant marine, a Saigon native, fled Vietnam when he turned 18. Spending three years hiding in the jungle, then fled by boat to Indonesia, where he was placed in a harsh refugee camp.

After being adopted by a Roanoke County couple, John and Audrey Flora, he quickly learned English and graduated from Cave Spring High School in just three years. He then attended Virginia Military Institute, where he earned a degree in biology and accepted a commission into the U.S. Army Reserve in 1987.

Transferred to the Virginia Army National Guard, he was deployed overseas three times, to Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan.

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## Viet

Not cheap. Developed by Institute of Technical Engineers, the domestic made UAV-02 drone as target for Su-30 bombers. every drone costs about $120,000. specs: 2 engines; wide 2.8 m; length 2.5 m; top speed 350 kmh; range 100 km; max altitude 8,000 m; weight 38 kg; can operate for 45 minutes.

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## frequency

Viet said:


> Not cheap. Developed by Institute of Technical Engineers, the domestic made UAV-02 drone as target for Su-30 bombers. every drone costs about $120,000. specs: 2 engines; wide 2.8 m; length 2.5 m; top speed 350 kmh; range 100 km; max altitude 8,000 m; weight 38 kg; can operate for 45 minutes.



Only 350km/h? man that is nothing for $120,000? That's a rip off. I can build a better one and faster for $30,000.00 look below.

http://www.jetcatusa.com/rc-turbines/turbine-details/p200-sx/

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## Carlosa

*India plans expanded missile export drive, with China on its mind*
By REUTERS

PUBLISHED: 23:00 GMT, 8 June 2016 | UPDATED: 23:00 GMT, 8 June 2016

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/re...expanded-missile-export-drive-China-mind.html

By Sanjeev Miglani

NEW DELHI, June 9 (Reuters) - India has stepped up efforts to sell an advanced cruise missile system to Vietnam and has at least 15 more markets in its sights, a push experts say reflects concerns in New Delhi about China's growing military assertiveness.

Selling the supersonic BrahMos missile, made by an Indo-Russian joint venture, would mark a shift for the world's biggest arms importer, as India seeks to send weapons the other way in order to shore up partners' defences and boost revenues.

The government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi has ordered BrahMos Aerospace, which produces the missiles, to accelerate sales to a list of five countries topped by Vietnam, according to a government note viewed by Reuters and previously unreported.

The others are Indonesia, South Africa, Chile and Brazil.

The Philippines is at the top of a second list of 11 nations including Malaysia, Thailand and United Arab Emirates, countries which had "expressed interest but need further discussions and analysis", the undated note added.

A source familiar with the matter would only say the note was issued earlier this year.

New Delhi had been sitting on a 2011 request from Hanoi for the BrahMos for fear of angering China, which sees the weapon, reputed to be the world's fastest cruise missile with a top speed of up to three times the speed of sound, as destabilising.

Indonesia and the Philippines had also asked for the BrahMos, which has a range of 290 km and can be fired from land, sea and submarine. An air-launched version is under testing.


WARY EYE ON CHINA

Unlike Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia, India is not a party to territorial disputes in the South China Sea, a vital global trade route which China claims most of.

But India has an unsettled land border with China and in recent years has grown concerned over its powerful neighbour's expanding maritime presence in the Indian Ocean.

It has railed against China's military assistance to arch-rival Pakistan and privately fumed over Chinese submarines docking in Sri Lanka, just off the toe of India.

"Policymakers in Delhi were long constrained by the belief that advanced defence cooperation with Washington or Hanoi could provoke aggressive and undesirable responses from Beijing," said Jeff M. Smith, Director of Asian Security Programs at the American Foreign Policy Council in Washington.

"Prime Minister Modi and his team of advisers have essentially turned that thinking on its head, concluding that stronger defence relationships with the U.S., Japan, and Vietnam actually put India on stronger footing in its dealings with China."

India's export push comes as it emerges from decades of isolation over its nuclear arms programme.

It is poised to join the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) after talks between Modi and U.S. President Barack Obama in Washington this week. BrahMos' range means it falls short of the 300 km limit set by the voluntary organisation.

India's accession to the MTCR may also strengthen its case for joining another non-proliferation body, the Nuclear Suppliers Group, a move China has effectively blocked. Both groups would give India greater access to research and technology.

BrahMos Aerospace, co-owned by the Indian and Russian governments, said discussions were underway with several countries on missile exports, but it was too early to be more specific.

"Talks are going on, there will be a deal," said spokesman Praveen Pathak.

India is still a marginal player in global arms exports. The unit cost of the missile, fitted on Indian naval ships, is estimated at around $3 million.


GETTING CLOSER TO VIETNAM

India has been steadily building military ties with Vietnam and is supplying offshore patrol boats under a $100 million credit line, its biggest overseas military aid.

This week Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar held talks with his Vietnamese counterpart General Ngo Xuan Lich in Hanoi and both sides agreed to exchange information on commercial shipping as well as expand hydrographic cooperation, the Indian defence ministry said in a statement on Monday.

*A source at the defence ministry said India was hoping to conclude negotiations on the supply of BrahMos to Vietnam by the end of the year.*

*The Indian government is also considering a proposal to offer Vietnam a battleship armed with the BrahMos missiles instead of just the missile battery, the source said.*

"*A frigate integrated with the BrahMos* can play a decisive role, it can be a real deterrent in the South China Sea," the source said, adding New Delhi would have to expand the line of credit to cover the cost of the ship.

Indian warships are armed with configurations of eight or 16 BrahMos missiles each, while sets of two or four would go on smaller vessels.

A Russian official said exports of BrahMos to third countries was part of the founding agreement of the India-Russia joint venture. Only now India had armed its own military with the BrahMos was there capacity to consider exporting, he added. (Additional reporting by Douglas Busvine; Editing by Mike Collett-White)

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## Viet

frequency said:


> Only 350km/h? man that is nothing for $120,000? That's a rip off. I can build a better one and faster for $30,000.00 look below.
> 
> http://www.jetcatusa.com/rc-turbines/turbine-details/p200-sx/


that is why I am saying the drone UAV-2 is not cheap. once it is shot down by the jet, you are $120,000 poorer.

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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> *India plans expanded missile export drive, with China on its mind*
> By REUTERS
> 
> PUBLISHED: 23:00 GMT, 8 June 2016 | UPDATED: 23:00 GMT, 8 June 2016
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/re...expanded-missile-export-drive-China-mind.html
> 
> By Sanjeev Miglani
> 
> NEW DELHI, June 9 (Reuters) - India has stepped up efforts to sell an advanced cruise missile system to Vietnam and has at least 15 more markets in its sights, a push experts say reflects concerns in New Delhi about China's growing military assertiveness.
> 
> Selling the supersonic BrahMos missile, made by an Indo-Russian joint venture, would mark a shift for the world's biggest arms importer, as India seeks to send weapons the other way in order to shore up partners' defences and boost revenues.
> 
> The government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi has ordered BrahMos Aerospace, which produces the missiles, to accelerate sales to a list of five countries topped by Vietnam, according to a government note viewed by Reuters and previously unreported.
> 
> The others are Indonesia, South Africa, Chile and Brazil.
> 
> The Philippines is at the top of a second list of 11 nations including Malaysia, Thailand and United Arab Emirates, countries which had "expressed interest but need further discussions and analysis", the undated note added.
> 
> A source familiar with the matter would only say the note was issued earlier this year.
> 
> New Delhi had been sitting on a 2011 request from Hanoi for the BrahMos for fear of angering China, which sees the weapon, reputed to be the world's fastest cruise missile with a top speed of up to three times the speed of sound, as destabilising.
> 
> Indonesia and the Philippines had also asked for the BrahMos, which has a range of 290 km and can be fired from land, sea and submarine. An air-launched version is under testing.
> 
> 
> WARY EYE ON CHINA
> 
> Unlike Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia, India is not a party to territorial disputes in the South China Sea, a vital global trade route which China claims most of.
> 
> But India has an unsettled land border with China and in recent years has grown concerned over its powerful neighbour's expanding maritime presence in the Indian Ocean.
> 
> It has railed against China's military assistance to arch-rival Pakistan and privately fumed over Chinese submarines docking in Sri Lanka, just off the toe of India.
> 
> "Policymakers in Delhi were long constrained by the belief that advanced defence cooperation with Washington or Hanoi could provoke aggressive and undesirable responses from Beijing," said Jeff M. Smith, Director of Asian Security Programs at the American Foreign Policy Council in Washington.
> 
> "Prime Minister Modi and his team of advisers have essentially turned that thinking on its head, concluding that stronger defence relationships with the U.S., Japan, and Vietnam actually put India on stronger footing in its dealings with China."
> 
> India's export push comes as it emerges from decades of isolation over its nuclear arms programme.
> 
> It is poised to join the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) after talks between Modi and U.S. President Barack Obama in Washington this week. BrahMos' range means it falls short of the 300 km limit set by the voluntary organisation.
> 
> India's accession to the MTCR may also strengthen its case for joining another non-proliferation body, the Nuclear Suppliers Group, a move China has effectively blocked. Both groups would give India greater access to research and technology.
> 
> BrahMos Aerospace, co-owned by the Indian and Russian governments, said discussions were underway with several countries on missile exports, but it was too early to be more specific.
> 
> "Talks are going on, there will be a deal," said spokesman Praveen Pathak.
> 
> India is still a marginal player in global arms exports. The unit cost of the missile, fitted on Indian naval ships, is estimated at around $3 million.
> 
> 
> GETTING CLOSER TO VIETNAM
> 
> India has been steadily building military ties with Vietnam and is supplying offshore patrol boats under a $100 million credit line, its biggest overseas military aid.
> 
> This week Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar held talks with his Vietnamese counterpart General Ngo Xuan Lich in Hanoi and both sides agreed to exchange information on commercial shipping as well as expand hydrographic cooperation, the Indian defence ministry said in a statement on Monday.
> 
> *A source at the defence ministry said India was hoping to conclude negotiations on the supply of BrahMos to Vietnam by the end of the year.*
> 
> *The Indian government is also considering a proposal to offer Vietnam a battleship armed with the BrahMos missiles instead of just the missile battery, the source said.*
> 
> "*A frigate integrated with the BrahMos* can play a decisive role, it can be a real deterrent in the South China Sea," the source said, adding New Delhi would have to expand the line of credit to cover the cost of the ship.
> 
> Indian warships are armed with configurations of eight or 16 BrahMos missiles each, while sets of two or four would go on smaller vessels.
> 
> A Russian official said exports of BrahMos to third countries was part of the founding agreement of the India-Russia joint venture. Only now India had armed its own military with the BrahMos was there capacity to consider exporting, he added. (Additional reporting by Douglas Busvine; Editing by Mike Collett-White)


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## Carlosa

frequency said:


> Only 350km/h? man that is nothing for $120,000? That's a rip off. I can build a better one and faster for $30,000.00 look below.
> 
> http://www.jetcatusa.com/rc-turbines/turbine-details/p200-sx/



But no man, you didn't think about the whole range of cost involved in making such equipment in Vietnam, for example:
Tea money for the director of the military owned company that makes the drones
Tea money for the vice director of the military owned company that makes the drones
Tea money for the purchasing manager of the military owned company that makes the drones, or do you expect that he will order the parts without earning commission?
Tea money for the accountant of the military owned company that makes the drones so that she can cover up for all the tea money been given to the others
Some tea money for other officials in the ministry of defense so that they can look the other way about the high cost of the drones
Etc, etc

So you see? Its not cheap to make a drone like that in Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

Deploying by helicopter


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## cochine

Vietnam Navy officiers visited P-3C in airbase in USA.






*BAE Systems sets sights on Vietnam*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
07 June 2016


BAE Systems (from UK) is undertaking a project to expand its understanding of Vietnam, with a view to potential market penetration. The move coincides with the United States' recent decision to lift its long-standing military embargo on the Southeast Asian country.

Nick Glover, BAE Systems' Southeast Asia vice president, told _IHS Jane's_ recently that the company is "assessing" Vietnam and potential opportunities, not only in its defence market but in adjacent sectors such as homeland security.

"Vietnam could be an interesting market," he said. "We have been assessing industrial capability within the country and we are looking at potential opportunities. It could be a market where we look to enter through Applied Intelligence [BAE Systems' cyber security division] or our HADR [Humanitarian Assistance, Disaster Relief] products."

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *India plans expanded missile export drive, with China on its mind*
> 
> 
> 
> *A source at the defence ministry said India was hoping to conclude negotiations on the supply of BrahMos to Vietnam by the end of the year.*
> 
> *The Indian government is also considering a proposal to offer Vietnam a battleship armed with the BrahMos missiles instead of just the missile battery, the source said.*
> 
> "*A frigate integrated with the BrahMos* can play a decisive role, it can be a real deterrent in the South China Sea," the source said, adding New Delhi would have to expand the line of credit to cover the cost of the ship.
> 
> Indian warships are armed with configurations of eight or 16 BrahMos missiles each, while sets of two or four would go on smaller vessels.
> 
> A Russian official said exports of BrahMos to third countries was part of the founding agreement of the India-Russia joint venture. Only now India had armed its own military with the BrahMos was there capacity to consider exporting, he added. (Additional reporting by Douglas Busvine; Editing by Mike Collett-White)


having 6 frigates armed by brahmos antiship missiles, that will be a nice thing no matter whether game changer or not. more fun.

there are other things under discustion too. modernization of thermal sights and fire control systems for BMP, T 54 and T 55 tanks, MI-17/ Mi-8 Helicopters, cooperation in shipbuilding programmes, missile systems, radios.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ilitary-modernistion/articleshow/52619485.cms

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> having 6 frigates armed by brahmos antiship missiles, that will be a nice thing no matter whether game changer or not. more fun.
> 
> there are other things under discustion too. modernization of thermal sights and fire control systems for BMP, T 54 and T 55 tanks, MI-17/ Mi-8 Helicopters, cooperation in shipbuilding programmes, missile systems, radios.
> 
> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ilitary-modernistion/articleshow/52619485.cms



Viet oi, can you post the text of the article? I'm getting an access denied message when I go to that link (It could be because I'm in China right now).


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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> But no man, you didn't think about the whole range of cost involved in making such equipment in Vietnam, for example:
> Tea money for the director of the military owned company that makes the drones
> Tea money for the vice director of the military owned company that makes the drones
> Tea money for the purchasing manager of the military owned company that makes the drones, or do you expect that he will order the parts without earning commission?
> Tea money for the accountant of the military owned company that makes the drones so that she can cover up for all the tea money been given to the others
> Some tea money for other officials in the ministry of defense so that they can look the other way about the high cost of the drones
> Etc, etc
> 
> So you see? Its not cheap to make a drone like that in Vietnam.



You are right. A new war wont be using sophisticated missiles, radars, submarines, ships, jets, but by small automated robots. Their mission is to infiltrated the government buildings and spy on key people to target. Each little robot contain poison that could kill a person through injection. These little robots are as small as a fly and operate using tiny batteries and can be recharged by solar. They work in groups and each contain different module which contain the hardware and software. For example, mini bot A has a camera with wireless capability, bot B has the ability to recharge batteries, and bot C contain GPS and transmitters, etc. When they are connected together they can communicate via Satelite to the command center. Who are then instructed these mini robots to kill.

We call them The Silent Killer.

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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> Viet oi, can you post the text of the article? I'm getting an access denied message when I go to that link (It could be because I'm in China right now).



We can understand how our capabilities by understand the science behind radiation. For example, the light that we see is considered a radiation. It is the same as radar or x-ray, radio, etc. Our eyes are the best example to compare with how radar works. When we look at a mirror, we know that the reflection of light is greatly intensified, however, it is not the same case when we look at a black wallpaper. This is how the US was able to find a material that can absorb radar energy. At the same time the US found a way to intensify the radar refection to mimick its missiles to look like a plane.

You can read more here, if interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross-section

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## Viet

Carlosa, here we are. the article. How about travelling into the heart of a wannabe returning evil Empire? 



*Manohar Parrikar asks Indian private sector to participate in Vietnam's military modernistion*
By Ruchi Bambha, ECONOMICTIMES.COM | 6 Jun, 2016, 03.30PM IST

*




*
Parrikar said, "India's help in modernising Vietnamese military will not just strengthen the diplomatic bond but also open the doors of strategic exports."

NEW DELHI: In a bid to deepen strategic relationship, Defence Minister  Manohar Parrikar on Monday asked Indian defence industry to help  Vietnam in its military modernisation. Parrikar, who is in Vietnam to meet his counterpart General Ngo Xuan Lich to address key military issues, is accomponied by Indian defence delegation.

Parrikar said, "  India 's help in modernising Vietnamese military will not just strengthen the diplomatic and military bond between both the nations but also open the doors of strategic exports." He assured the Indian private sector of full support from Ministry of Defence,  DRDO and DPSU to realize the national aspiration of exports of defence items to friendly nations at competitive price.

The major areas identified for working together are upgradation of thermal sights and fire control systems for - BMP, T 54 and T 55 tanks; upgradation of MI 17 / Mi 8 Helicopters, shipbuilding programmes, missile systems from India and software defined radios from Vietnam. The meeting also discussed possible sale of supersonic missile  BrahMos to the Southeast Asian country.

This meeting gains significance as both countries are celebrating 45 years of diplomatic relations and 10 years of strategic partnership.

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## Viet

a report hints of the possibility, this can be the next generation of Gepard frigates for the Navy: Gepard-5.1. a further development of Gepard-3.9. the negotiation on the next two frigates is under way. or if the Russians are willing to deliver: Gepard-5.3.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, here we are. the article. How about travelling into the heart of a wannabe returning evil Empire?
> 
> 
> 
> *Manohar Parrikar asks Indian private sector to participate in Vietnam's military modernistion*
> By Ruchi Bambha, ECONOMICTIMES.COM | 6 Jun, 2016, 03.30PM IST
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Parrikar said, "India's help in modernising Vietnamese military will not just strengthen the diplomatic bond but also open the doors of strategic exports."
> 
> NEW DELHI: In a bid to deepen strategic relationship, Defence Minister  Manohar Parrikar on Monday asked Indian defence industry to help  Vietnam in its military modernisation. Parrikar, who is in Vietnam to meet his counterpart General Ngo Xuan Lich to address key military issues, is accomponied by Indian defence delegation.
> 
> Parrikar said, "  India 's help in modernising Vietnamese military will not just strengthen the diplomatic and military bond between both the nations but also open the doors of strategic exports." He assured the Indian private sector of full support from Ministry of Defence,  DRDO and DPSU to realize the national aspiration of exports of defence items to friendly nations at competitive price.
> 
> The major areas identified for working together are upgradation of thermal sights and fire control systems for - BMP, T 54 and T 55 tanks; upgradation of MI 17 / Mi 8 Helicopters, shipbuilding programmes, missile systems from India and software defined radios from Vietnam. The meeting also discussed possible sale of supersonic missile  BrahMos to the Southeast Asian country.
> 
> This meeting gains significance as both countries are celebrating 45 years of diplomatic relations and 10 years of strategic partnership.



Thank you bro.


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## Viet

a Vietnamese Su-30 test firing a *Kh-31A* medium range air-to-ground missile.

per SIPRI, Vietnam Air Force has acquired 80 missiles. spec: solid/ramjet propulsion, weight 610 kg, 94 kg warhead, top speed Mach 3, denotation by impact. active seeker head for use against enemy ships or radar installations, max range of 103 km, flying sea-skimming when approaching the target, active radar homing. against enemy air planes, the Su-30s have R-77 medium range fire-and-forget air-to-air-missiles.

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## Nike

Indonesia is interested with Brahmos too, came along the package with Shivalik class

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Indonesia is interested with Brahmos too, came along the package with Shivalik class


any specific figure how many ships with missiles you want?


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## Aqsuperman

Dual wielding.............just for fun


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## Viet

@Carlosa 
@Penguin 

yesterday, in a meeting with the new Embassador to Vietnam_ Parvathaneni Harish_, it is revealed Prime Minister Narendra Modi will visit Vietnam next September. that means a deal on brahmos can be signed during his visit.

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## Penguin

Should Vietnam be interested in acquiring Brahmos, what specific version(s) are they interested in and for what platform(s)?


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## Viet

Penguin said:


> Should Vietnam be interested in acquiring Brahmos, what specific version(s) are they interested in and for what platform(s)?


well, I would guess everything needed that deters China from attacking our country.

we need brahmos that can be fired from land, air, sea, under water, though I won´t go too far like* Bharat Karnad*, who long advocates arming Vietnam by long range cruise and ballistic missiles including nuclear weapons, as a response to China nuclear arming Pakistan. Also, Bharat Karnad suggests, India immediately delivers some nice conventional toys such as brahmos land attack missiles with fuel air explosive warheads, aiming to attack Chinese naval base in Hainan in case of war. such thing if exploding comes close to a small nuclear blast.


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> a report hints of the possibility, this can be the next generation of Gepard frigates for the Navy: Gepard-5.1. a further development of Gepard-3.9. the negotiation on the next two frigates is under way. or if the Russians are willing to deliver: Gepard-5.3.



1pic is a 'Gepart 5.1' ocean zone patrol ship for Sri-Lanka Navy.

2pic - 7 years old picture.

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> 1pic is a 'Gepart 5.1' ocean zone patrol ship for Sri-Lanka Navy.
> 
> 2pic - 7 years old picture.


really? 

the variants 5.1 or 5.9 appear to be bigger, probably suitable as fleet defence. I wonder why the Navy has chosen Gepard-3.9 instead of 5.1 or 5.9, with missile system aboard having little chance against Chinese destroyers?


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> the variants 5.1 or 5.9 appear to be bigger, probably suitable as fleet defence.



No, they are all in the same size (2000 tonnes). The Gepard 5.1 ocean patrol ship almost doesn't have a weapons. The variant 5.3 looks exactly like the current Vietnamese frigates which is under construction.
As i said, it's already old picture and a lot of things changes since then, including names of modifications.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> really?
> 
> the variants 5.1 or 5.9 appear to be bigger, probably suitable as fleet defence. I wonder why the Navy has chosen Gepard-3.9 instead of 5.1 or 5.9, with missile system aboard having little chance against Chinese destroyers?



I've been asking the same question for a long time, why Vietnam keeps choosing the lowest quality Gepard, one that can't survive a conflict with the chinese? $350 million a piece for a ship that can't survive is a waste of money. India can supply much better ships and cheaper.




Viet said:


> really?
> 
> the variants 5.1 or 5.9 appear to be bigger, probably suitable as fleet defence. I wonder why the Navy has chosen Gepard-3.9 instead of 5.1 or 5.9, with missile system aboard having little chance against Chinese destroyers?



The 5.1 variant is just an OPV, Its not an actual warship, it only has guns.



Penguin said:


> Should Vietnam be interested in acquiring Brahmos, what specific version(s) are they interested in and for what platform(s)?



I imagine it will be the standard Brahmos that can launch from ships and probably the one for coastal batteries. Its not clear yet for what ship, but probably for Indian made ships.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I've been asking the same question for a long time, why Vietnam chose the lowest quality Gepard, one that can't survive a conflict with the chinese? $350 million a piece for a ship that can't survive is a waste of money. India can supply much better ships and cheaper.
> .


Because there are day dreamers and other in charge making decisions. Like the one in the authority that recently rejects the assistance of the US government in finding the cause of mass fish deaths.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Because there are day dreamers and other in charge making decisions. Like the one in the authority that recently rejects the assistance of the US government in finding the cause of mass fish deaths.



I would add to that that those purchasing deals probably include money under the table, Its the only explanation for the fact that they keep getting Gepards. Either that or they are extremely incompetent. 

Its becoming very clear that the cause for the mass fish deaths is being covered up.


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## Carlosa

*US Ambassador highlights Obama’s fruitful visit to Vietnam*

VNA FRIDAY, JUNE 10, 2016 



US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius (Source: CSIS)

*Washington D.C. (VNA) – *US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius described the recent historical visit to Vietnam by President Barack Obama a great success during a discussion at the Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington D.C on June 9.

The event drew hundreds international experts and academicians.

Ambassador Osius said President Obama was very touched by the warm reception of Vietnamese people.

He reviewed significant achievements gained during the President’s trip, including the Vietnam – US Joint Statement, which demonstrates the bilateral relationship is quickly broadening and deepening based on their comprehensive partnership.

He shared his earlier ambition of pursuing 12 different joint cooperation agreements with Vietnam and only hoped to get seven or eight reached during the President’s visit.

However, in fact, the two countries reached up to 20 agreements, which illustrates their willingness to collaborate in wide-ranging fields, both bilaterally and multilaterally, in economics-trade, navigation security and safety, climate change adaptation, education, and science-technology as well as in addressing war consequences, preventing the illegal trade in wildlife, and promoting people-to-people exchanges, the diplomat said.

This creates a solid foundation for the two countries’ relations in the next 50 and 60 years, he added.

Regarding the bilateral economic and trade cooperation, the Ambassador said they signed a number of commercial agreements, including the sale of a hundred Boeing airplanes to Vietjet Air, which is equivalent of 61,000 jobs in the US.

He said the US will support Vietnam to fully implement commitments under the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) – the world’s largest free trade pact.

He extolled Vietnam’s engagement in TPP to propel its economy and encourage continuous reform, thus offering excellent opportunities for US businesses, he noted.

People-to-people exchange and education are also highlights in the Vietnam-US relations, demonstrated by Vietnam ’s granting of a license to open Fulbright University – the first independent not-for-profit American-style university in Ho Chi Minh City , as well as the US volunteers’ arrival in Vietnam to teach English, and the expansion of visa for US citizens to one year.

As regards security cooperation, the Ambassador underlined the US President’s full removal of the lethal arms embargo against Vietnam as a historical move to eliminate a big obstacle in the two countries’ normalisation process.

The US pledged to boost security cooperation with Vietnam, especially navigation security, he confirmed.

The bilateral collaboration in climate change adaptation is also a success, he said, noting that during the President’s visit, the two sides agreed to work alongside to cope with environmental changes in the Red River Delta and Mekong Delta in Vietnam .

The US promised to help Vietnam struggle with the recent drought in the Mekong Delta, he said.

Vietnam and the US are exerting every effort to address war consequences, especially searching for soldiers missing in action during wartime. The US spent 92 million USD over the past decade on cleaning up unexploded ordnance in Vietnam, he said.

He affirmed that the US will continue to support Vietnam to decontaminate Agent Orange/Dioxin in central Da Nang city and Bien Hoa airbase in southern Dong Nai province. The US will also assist AO/dioxin victims in the 10 hardest hit provinces.

Answering experts’ questions on the East Sea issue, Ambassador Ted Osius said the US called on the involved parties to respect international law, avoid use or threat to use forces and militarisation in the East Sea.

About the US’s approach to Cam Ranh Bay, the diplomat said the US does not intend to put military bases in Vietnam.

The Ambassador said the US President’s visit to Vietnam creates a firm foundation for the two countries to enhance their relations in the coming time, especially when the US will have a new cabinet in 2017.-VNA

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## Penguin

Carlosa said:


> I imagine it will be the standard Brahmos that can launch from ships and probably the one for coastal batteries. Its not clear yet for what ship, but probably for Indian made ships.


Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).

Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)

Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.

Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.

Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx replaced ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)

Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.

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## Viet

Su-27 with R-27 air-to-air missiles

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## Carlosa

Penguin said:


> Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).
> 
> Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)
> 
> Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
> It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
> In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.
> 
> Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
> 3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.
> 
> Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)
> 
> Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.



Yes, 1 SU-27 was lost, there are 11 now. They are been upgraded to an standard similar to the SU-30 now.

Brahmos is too heavy for the current SU-30MK2. I believe they are testing a lighter version that can be carried by the standard SU-30 (just 1 missile), but its not out yet, so for the SU-30MK2 ideally it has to be the Brahmos-M (mini), now called NG. It will be able to carry 3 of those, but have to wait a few years for that missile.

I also think that coastal batteries will be the first to carry Brahmos, since no ship have been decided although that could happen soon since India is proposing some ships right now. The modernization of the Molniya / Tarantul ships seems to be based on Russian designs (Kalibr), so I don't know. Myself, I think the Indian options are very good, but its up to Vietnam to decide. I think Vietnam depends too much on Russian hardware. Its time to diversify.

For the next Gepards (I actually hope that there is no such thing as the next Gepards) it seems like it will be the Kalibr missile although the UKSK launcher can also carry Brahmos.

The Svetlyak class doesn't carry missiles. The Osa class could be converted to use KH-35 (others have done it), but I'm not sure is worth it. The TT-400TP will probably have a version soon with KH-35.

I think Vietnam has some big decisions to make. We should soon find out. Brahmos in the navy will certainly be a good step up. The chinese will not be happy about that.




Penguin said:


> Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).
> 
> Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)
> 
> Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
> It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
> In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.
> 
> Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
> 3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.
> 
> Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx replaced ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)
> 
> Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.



You forgot 1 anti ship missile which is actually very important. The air force has a good stock of the KH-59MK2, that one together with the Kh-31 would the best ones for the job. The KH-59MK2 has the best stand off range.


Penguin said:


> Brahmos is capable of being launched from multiple platforms, including submarines, ships, aircraft and land based Mobile Autonomous Launchers (MAL).
> 
> Landbased MAL would be easy and effective. Fired from the coast near Hanoi, Hue or Da Nang the 300km Brahmos can hit ships sailing just off the island of Hainan, the peninsula and the nearby Chinese coast. Vietname already operates P-800 Oniks (SS-N-26 Yakhont), to which Brahmos would be a good complement. It could serve as replacement of older P-5 Pyatyorka (SS-N-3 Shaddock), although their range (450 km a/b-version, 750 km c-version) makes them interesting to keep around (the distance from Da Nang to Paracel islands is about 430km). More in need of replacement would be the 80km P-15 Termit (SS-N-2 Styx)
> 
> Vietnam has 12 Su-27 (9 Su-27SKs and 3 Su-27UBKs, possible 1 Su 27 lost between january 2013 and today) and 36 Su-30MK2 (16 Su-30MKs and 20 Su-30MK2Vs). The latter at least can carry multple Kh-31P/A anti-radar/ship missiles (103/110km range), Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME) and Kh-29T/L laser guided missiles (12-30km range, depending on version).
> It also has 36 Su-22, which can in principal also use Kh-29T/L (don't know if Viet air force does) . For these, the Vietnamese also have the short range Kh23 Grom and Kh-25. But those would be suited only for attacking ship lacking SAMs.
> In short, the Vietnamese airforce has a viable anti-shipping capability, if somewhat short ranged in the face of newer ships in the Chinese navy (notably 052C/D). While the Su30s could carry Brahmos, it would be limited to a single missile, until such time when Brahmos M/NG becomes available that is (of which Su-30 could carry 3). So, the airlaunched Brahmos would also be relatively easy and effective. This could be with a view to the Spratly Islands, which are some 850km from Cam Rahn.
> 
> Submarines: Vietnam has Kilo class submarines (5-6). These have 533mm torpedo tubes that could launch Brahmos M/NG eventually (current Brahmos is wider and would require VLS installation). However, these boats already have
> 3M-54 Klub (SS-N-27 Sizzler), so the need seems less pressing.
> 
> Ships. The existing Gepard 3.9s each have 8 Kh-38 and this would seem sufficient for an ASW platform. And not very easy to reconfigure to take the much larger and heavier Brahmos or even Bhramos M/NG. However,, ships yet to be built could be fitted with the Russian universal vertical launcher, which is Brahmos compatible. Various models and artist impression suggest we may see these eventually. Kh-35 is also the missile on the BPS-500 and the newer Project 1241.8 Molniya attack craft. Older Project 1241.RE (NATO: Tarantul-I) however could see their P-15 Termit/SS-N-2 Styx replaced ( see coastal defences and http://tintuc.vn/quan-su/ten-lua-moi-cho-molniya-viet-nam-brahmos-hay-yakhont-club-54565 ). Much in the same way as was done on Rajput class destroyers of IN with Brahmos, or Russian Nanuchka corvette. Smaller ships are either Kh-35 user (Svetlyak class) or to old to convert (Osa class)
> 
> Personally, I would first bring in Brahmos MAL for coastal defence, modernize the project 1241.RE with Brahmos, have the newest Gepards fitted with VLS/Brahmos and big Brahmos for Su-30. If and when Brahmos M/NG comes available, then look to Su-30 and Kilo applications, mainly keeping Spratleys in mind.



850 km is just for the eastern part of the Spratly islands. The closest ones to the mainland start at less than 500 km from the Vietnamese coastline. The Brahmos missile actual range is not less than 500 km, so if Vietnam were to be able to disable the software limited 300 km range as per the missile control treaty, and assuming they were to have the proper ISR assets (I guess when they get the C-295 AWACS), those Brahmos can reach the periphery of the Spratlys and if they are launched from ships not far from the coast, they can still reach deep into the Spratlys. That would not be a bad capability to have at all.

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## Penguin

Carlosa said:


> Yes, 1 SU-27 was lost, there are 11 now. They are been upgraded to an standard similar to the SU-30 now.


So, they too can now use the missiles mentioned.



Carlosa said:


> Brahmos is too heavy for the current SU-30MK2. I believe they are testing a lighter version that can be carried by the standard SU-30 (just 1 missile), but its not out yet, so for the SU-30MK2 ideally it has to be the Brahmos-M (mini), now called NG. It will be able to carry 3 of those, but have to wait a few years for that missile.


Well, it can carry 1 (just like it can handle the even heavier Moskit there)
















Yakhont with Su-33 Flanker D and mounting a centreline Kh-41 Moskit / Sunburn








Carlosa said:


> The Svetlyak class doesn't carry missiles.


Correct, but it easily can. See Project 10411. Just like TT-400TP. In both cases, at the loss of ship's Ribs.
http://www.lina.lt/ships_10411.asp













Carlosa said:


> The Osa class could be converted to use KH-35 (others have done it), but I'm not sure is worth it.


Out of curiosity, which navies have put Kh-35 on Osa's?



Carlosa said:


> You forgot 1 anti ship missile which is actually very important. The air force has a good stock of the KH-59MK2, that one together with the Kh-31 would the best ones for the job. The KH-59MK2 has the best stand off range.


I do believe I did mention KH-59 in relation to Su-30?



Carlosa said:


> 850 km is just for the eastern part of the Spratly islands. The closest ones to the mainland start at less than 500 km from the Vietnamese coastline. The Brahmos missile actual range is not less than 500 km, so if Vietnam were to be able to disable the software limited 300 km range as per the missile control treaty, and assuming they were to have the proper ISR assets (I guess when they get the C-295 AWACS), those Brahmos can reach the periphery of the Spratlys and if they are launched from ships not far from the coast, they can still reach deep into the Spratlys. That would not be a bad capability to have at all.


I was refering to Brahmos equipped Flankers.

Here's the Russian Nanuchka, with P-120 Malakhit (P-15 Termit Styx for export) replaced by racks for Yakhont.






INS Rajput with 2x Brahmos replacing 1x P-15 Termit Styx )

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## Penguin

INS Rajput, closer up





Project 1241 with 2x4 Yakhont





Project 1241RE





project 1241.8

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## Aqsuperman

multi-purpose amored vehicle for peace time and wartime role


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## Carlosa

Penguin said:


> I do believe I did mention KH-59 in relation to Su-30?



You mentioned: "Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME)"

The MK2 has 260 km range, so its particularly useful for Vietnam.



Penguin said:


> So, they too can now use the missiles mentioned.



Yes, they can carry the same anti ship missiles as the SU-30MK2



Penguin said:


> Well, it can carry 1 (just like it can handle the even heavier Moskit there)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yakhont with Su-33 Flanker D and mounting a centreline Kh-41 Moskit / Sunburn



Not really, The SU-30MKI requires airframe modification to strengthen the airframe (Which India is doing to 42 jets) in order to carry 1 Brahmos in the center pylon. The SU-30SM comes like that standard. The SU-33 already comes with such modification as standard.

The Brahmos "A" is the one that can be carried in the center pylon without airframe modifications. Brahmos A weights 500 kg less than standard Brahmos. That's the one that I mentioned before as been under testing. Vietnam could use that one until Brahmos NG is available.



Penguin said:


> Out of curiosity, which navies have put Kh-35 on Osa's?



I don't know what navies did it, but I have a picture with 2 quad KH-35 launchers and a 76 mm gun.

But I do have an issue posting pics, the service that I used to use to upload the pics to and then insert in PDF no longer works. Can you recommend one?

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## Viet

ANALYSIS JUNE 4, 2016
*Cam Ranh port visits in strategic context*

By Zachary Abuza and Nguyen Nhat Anh*


ON 2 May, the French amphibious assault ship FS Tonnerre arrived in the Cam Ranh International Port (CRIP) for a four day visit. It was the third international visit to the newly established CRIP, nee Cam Ranh Bay, following the mid-March visit of a Singaporean naval vessel and a mid-April visit by two Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force ships. These three visits reflect Vietnam’s strategic interests, most importantly, the development of an omni-directional foreign policy.


While much attention will be paid to President Obama’s visit to Vietnam this month, it is important to note both how far bilateral relations have come, but also how much they are only a piece of Vietnam’s overall strategic framework.


The decision to give Cam Ranh the moniker “International Port” was a strategic one. Hanoi has long been called on to open up the port to foreign vessels transiting the region, but wanted to make sure that it was not aimed at any one country. Thus the port, which is one of the finest deep-water ports in the entire region and is full of new construction after the inauguration such as a new berthing area, pier, quay wall, and was opened up to all on a “commercial basis.”


This is in line, if not a creative work around, with Hanoi’s “3 Nos” foreign policy (no alliances, no foreign military bases, and no policies that could be construed as being directed against any one state). The argument that any one foreign country could try to gain exclusive access to the port is nonsensical.


Indeed, in bilateral defense talks held at the end of March 2016, Vice Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh said that Vietnam had actively invited Chinese vessels to visit Vietnamese ports, including CRIP. Even though it was an unpopular move domestically, it signals the leadership’s intention that CRIP not be directed against any one country.


While it is clear that Vietnam-U.S. defense cooperation has deepened considerably over the last few years and will continue to do so, both sides seem to be content on the pace with which the relationship is moving for various reasons.


Vietnam clearly has a strategic interest in a more robust U.S. presence in the region, and has actively championed the right of U.S. Naval vessels to conduct freedom of navigation operations (FONOPs), including past features that Vietnam itself claims and occupies. Vietnam also looks to the United States as the only thing between China and the declaration of an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ).


However, although Hanoi is keen to further deepen ties with the United States, there remain many real impediments, including history, the continued legacy of Agent Orange, and the enormous costs associated with the cleanup of Bien Hoa, and criticism over human rights. Indeed, this year, Hanoi responded to the U.S. State Department’s annual human rights report, calling it “biased,” something it has not done and downplayed in the past few years. Furthermore, despite its embrace of the Trans Pacific Partnership, Hanoi is cautious about growing too close to the United States in the security realm, for fear of provoking a harsh reaction from China, hence its intention of displaying CRIP as a neutral, open-to-all port.


From 22-24 May, President Barack Obama will visit Vietnam, reciprocating the historic July 2015 visit to the United States by Vietnam Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong. While many hope that President Obama will fully lift the arms embargo, others argue that Vietnam simply has too many human rights abuses to merit a full lifting. Indeed, his Secretary of Defense recently endorsed lifting the embargo in a Congressional hearing with Senator John McCain, a long proponent of ending the embargo. In early May, right before Obama’s visit, Vietnam hosted a defense symposium to which top U.S. arm corporations, such as Boeing and Lockheed Martin, were invited. This will be more of a symbolic gesture, but in diplomacy, especially in such a historically fraught relationship, symbols matter.


But even still, limits exist. There are longstanding concerns about selling advanced technology to Vietnam for fear that it will be shared with Russia. Again, human right issues also interfere with the decision. Nevertheless, this is not to say that Vietnam’s purchase of U.S. weapons is impossible.


The one area that does seem ripe for sales is maritime aviation capabilities, something that the U.S. does have a stark comparative advantage in. Vietnam has expressed an interest in a stripped down P-3 Orion. In April 2016, a group of Vietnamese naval officers visited U.S. Patrol Squadron 47 in Hawaii and notably toured a P-3C in order to better understand its capability. Vietnam has also seen the P-3 in action in January 2016 during a joint HADR exercise between Vietnam and Japan. Boeing has suggested that one of its Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) suites would fit Vietnam’s needs.


Despite the regular presence of U.S. Naval vessels, which spend some 700 ship days a year in the South China Sea, and the recent visit by the USS Stennis to the Philippines, and the recent refusal of port access in Hong Kong by China, to date no U.S. vessel has called on CRIP.


Furthermore, Vietnamese rules stipulate that foreign naval vessels, including those of the U.S., can only call on Vietnamese ports once a year. Nevertheless, U.S. logistical ships have visited the port before for repair and maintenance service. In June 2012 USNS Richard E. Byrd, a Military Sealift Command supply ship, stopped at Cam Ranh’s repair facilities, and then-Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta gave a speech on board the moored ship, promising a stronger relationship between the two nations. The U.S. Navy has used their port call annually since 2009, albeit not at Cam Ranh Bay. Furthermore, when reporting the inauguration of CRIP, Vietnamese official media mentioned the possibility of U.S. aircraft carriers calling on the port by mentioning that CRIP can “accommodate military and civilian ships like aircraft carriers of up to 110,000 DWT (deadweight tonnage).” Hence, it is likely that a U.S. Navy ship will call on Cam Ranh Bay in the near future.


In addition, the U.S. government has awarded Vietnam $40.1 million in FY2015-16 as part of its Maritime Security Initiative in order to “bolster its maritime Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) and command and control within Vietnam’s maritime agencies.” The funding will also support the purchase of maritime defense equipment and support training and bilateral HADR exercises to improve interoperability.


The visit by the Singaporean naval vessel should have come as no surprise. ASEAN – for all of its faults and limitations – remains the cornerstone of Vietnamese foreign policy. It works assiduously to counter China’s aggressive moves to divide the grouping, especially ahead of the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s expected ruling. Vietnam and Singapore have pledged to deepen ties and have suggested future bi and multi-lateral defense exercises.


Soon after, Vietnamese naval vessels and special forces soldiers participated in a regional counter-terrorism and anti-piracy exercise with Singapore, Brunei, Thailand and Indonesia.


Interestingly, Vietnam sent HQ-381, a BPS-500 type missile corvette instead of its Gepard frigates. The HQ-318 was the first missile corvette built domestically in Vietnam in 1999, and it underwent capability upgrades in 2014. Vietnam has also increased its participation in multilateral exercises, including sending Hospital Ship 561 to the 2016 Komodo naval exercises in Indonesia in April 2016. Vietnam has extended maritime cooperation to entirely new partners as well, including a five day on-shore multilateral course by the Royal Navy’s Maritime Warfare School on EEZ enforcement.


The visit by the French ship capped a week of the re-emergence of France as a player in Asian security, with the agreement in principle to supply Australia with 12 Barracuda submarines; beating out the Japanese Soryu-class. But the presence of one of France’s largest vessels at CRIP also suggests the potential for defense deals with Vietnam, which has hinted that it wants to reduce its dependence on Russia for its advanced weaponry.


Vietnam has already purchased military lift planes from the French-led Airbus consortium.


SIPRI, in its arm transfer database, shows that Vietnam has taken delivery of Exocet anti-ship and MICA anti-air missiles from France for its Dutch SIGMA-9814 corvettes; yet, as the negotiation for the corvettes seems to have been suspended, the fate of these missiles is uncertain.


Reuters also reported that the Vietnamese military is currently in talk with Dassault on the Rafale multirole fighter as a possible replace for its antiquated but numerous MiG-21s. However, the Rafale’s high cost makes this procurement less likely.


But it is the relationship with Japan that portends the greatest potential. There have now been six high level strategic dialogues, and Japanese ships have made some nine port calls, the majority of which happened in the last five years. There are routine high level engagements. Although Japan has not sold any weapons to Vietnam, in 2014 it pledged to transfer six maritime patrol craft; the last were delivered in November 2015.


The potential for deeper ties is clearly there. A meeting between the respective foreign Ministers in early May 2016 led to calls for deepened defense relations as well as the provision of more maritime patrol craft. As Japan experiences the loss of the Soryu class vessels sale to Australia, Tokyo still needs a major arms sale to break into the world of the global arms industry. But while Japanese equipment is expensive and r technology transfer is unlikely, the defense relationship, including recent HADR operations, is growing so quickly that it might become a natural byproduct.


Both countries have called for a rules-based system in the South China Sea. Both would like each other to step up their respective operations in the South China Sea. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc recently called on Shinzo Abe’s government to make “effective efforts” in the South China Sea, but there are limits. Vietnam in unlikely to be overly confrontational towards China. And while many have called for Japan to join U.S. FONOPs, that is unlikely, simply as China has the ability to escalate its operations in the contested waters around the Senkaku/Diaoyutai Islands.


Intercepts of Chinese planes in Japan’s southwest quadrant alone already account for over 50 percent of overall intercepts of foreign aircraft. In 2015, there were 571 intercepts of Chinese planes, a 23 percent increase from 2014, taxing the Japanese military.


Despite these improvements and deepening cooperation with new defense partners, it is the bilateral defense relationship with Russia that remains the strongest. Newly elected Minister of National Defense Ngo Xuan Lich made his first overseas trip to Russia, where he reiterated that Vietnam will continue to rely on Russia for much of its weaponry and advanced training. Newly elected Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc will also make Russia his first foreign destination in mid-May, ahead of President Obama’s visit.


Vietnam’s third Gepard class frigate was recently floated in a Russian shipyard, with the fourth to be launched soon and delivered by September. There are reports that Vietnam will order another two, a total of six, while it has increased production of Molniya class missile ships under license from Russia. Five out of six Kilo submarines that Vietnam ordered from Russia have been delivered, and Russia is helping Vietnam construct the submarine base at Cam Ranh as part of the deal.


Vietnam’s recent announcement that it was moving the Ministry of National Defense’s Ba Son Shipyard to a new location, increasing its production capabilities to 2,000 dead weight tons, also suggests increased domestic production under further Russian license.


When Vietnam purportedly “invited” Russia back to Cam Ranh, it should not be taken as meaning a reopening of their Cold War era naval base, which closed in 1991, but simply as a commercial user of CRIP facilities. Nonetheless, in 1993 Moscow and Hanoi signed a 25 year agreement that allowed Russia to continue using a facility in Cam Ranh Bay for limited signals intelligence gathering. More recently Russia has deployed aerial refueling tankers from CRIP to support bombers that have flown “provocatively” near US airspace in Guam. U.S. calls on Vietnam to restrict such operations have fallen on deaf ears. Furthermore, in 2014, the procedure for Russian ships calling on Cam Ranh Bay was simplified: they only have to notify Vietnamese authority before doing so.


While there have been occasional reports that Vietnam wants to diversify its sources of advanced weaponry, the reality is Russian equipment is tried and true, very cost effective, and the Vietnamese have long trained on it. Most importantly, the Russians transfer a lot of technology to Vietnam, which produces an array of missiles and ships under license. Vietnam’s relationship with India, also gives it access to the advanced Brahmos anti-ship missiles developed with Russia. This is an enduring strategic defense relationship.


Yet, small diplomatic rifts between Vietnam and Russia have emerged, in particular over Moscow’s support for Beijing over the South China Sea and Permanent Court of Arbitration’s forthcoming ruling. In April 2016, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov commented in an interview that claimants in the South China Sea dispute should resolve the matter among themselves and not attempt to internationalize the issue. Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately rebutted Lavrov by announcing that the dispute should be “settled by all countries concerned,” not simply through bilateral negotiation. Notably, Lich’s visit to Russia occurred only two weeks after this incident. It should be closely watched whether this diplomatic rift will negatively affect Moscow-Hanoi defense relationship in any way.


In sum, since the 12th Party Congress in January 2016, and the early election of key state leaders to their posts ahead of President Obama’s visit, Vietnam has continued with their defense policy: a cautious attempt to bolster defense relations with regional and extra-regional states, the gradual diversification of its arms suppliers, and partaking in joint exercises. While it has brought a lot of new equipment online, giving the country unprecedented power projection capabilities, it is yet to be seen whether they have developed a corresponding doctrine.


While no one should underestimate Vietnam’s will and capability to act in self-defense, that robust strategic culture has faltered at the hands of China’s maritime-militia and Coast Guard sovereignty enforcement operations and island construction.


However, as Vietnam’s capability improve, it remains cautious about provoking a harsh reaction from Beijing. Yet, at the end of the day, Hanoi’s primary concern continues to be regime survival. The government responded quickly when environmental protests went national, and the regime seems very concerned regarding its ability to control its very wired and socially active population.


* Zachary Abuza, PhD, is a Professor at the National War College where he specializes in Southeast Asian security issues. The views expressed here are his own, and not the views of the Department of Defense or National War College.

Nguyen Nhat Anh is a student of International Political Economy at the University of Texas at Dallas.


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## gtiger

Carlosa said:


> I would add to that that those purchasing deals probably include money under the table, Its the only explanation for the fact that they keep getting Gepards. Either that or they are extremely incompetent.
> 
> Its becoming very clear that the cause for the mass fish deaths is being covered up.



The cause of mass animal deaths (especially those living water) can be quite difficult to determine. Take the case of the mass Asian carp fish deaths in Kentucky a few years back. The experts were baffled, and could only theorized that the fish died because the water was highly oxigenated (!) Why other fish species didn't die was un-explainable.

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## Penguin

Carlosa said:


> You mentioned: "Kh-59 TV guided antiship missile (115km range for the export Kh-59ME)"
> 
> The MK2 has 260 km range, so its particularly useful for Vietnam.



But nothing of this would derail my main points. Brahmos is supersonice, Kh-59 subsonic and so Brahmos would be providing additional capability.

http://vietnamnews24h.net/cobra-vietnam-submerged-enemy-warships-killer-kh-59m/



Carlosa said:


> Not really, The SU-30MKI requires airframe modification to strengthen the airframe (Which India is doing to 42 jets) in order to carry 1 Brahmos in the center pylon. The SU-30SM comes like that standard. The SU-33 already comes with such modification as standard.


That would be a relatively minor investment e.g. compared to other options.

"The required modifications in SU-30 MKI for interface with the missile launcher and integration with the weapon control of the aircraft are being carried out together with Indian Air Force and Sukhoi Design Bureau."
http://www.brahmos.com/content.php?id=10&sid=10

"The BrahMos-A is a modified air-launched variant of the missile which will arm the Su-30MKI of the air force as a standoff weapon. To reduce the missile's weight to 2.55 tons, many modifications were made like using a smaller booster, adding fins for airborne stability after launch, and relocating the connector. It can be released from the height of 500 to 14,000 meters (1,640 to 46,000 ft). After release, the missile free falls for 100–150 meters, then goes into a cruise phase at 14,000 meters and finally the terminal phase at 15 meters. BrahMos Aerospace plans to deliver the missile to the IAF in 2015, where it is expected to arm at least three squadrons. An Su-30MKI is able to only carry one BrahMos missile."
"The air-launched version for the Indian Air Force was ready for testing in 2008. An expert committee from the DRDO and the Indian Air Force (IAF) had ruled out any structural modifications to the Sukhoi Su-30MKI to carry the missile"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos

"The launch of BrahMos from Su-30MKI comprises several phases. Structural modifications have been carried out in the aircraft to integrate BrahMos on to it," explained [MD & CEO of BrahMos Aerospace Sudhir Kumar] Mishra.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...at-jet-sudhir-mishra/articleshow/50848753.cms

Incidentally, this doesn't sound like _significant_ structural modifications, if any, to me. I can't find details on those modifications. I did find this:

"The Su-30MKI can presently accommodate only one BrahMos in its underbelly without any structural modifications to the airframe. But since the IAF has specified that it wants two underwing-mounted BrahMos missiles to be carried by a Su-30MKI, IAF-specific structural modifications to the Su-30MKI airframe are required."
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.nl/2011/05/super-su-30mki-from-air-dominance-to.html (see 'comments' section)



Carlosa said:


> The Brahmos "A" is the one that can be carried in the center pylon without airframe modifications. Brahmos A weights 500 kg less than standard Brahmos. That's the one that I mentioned before as been under testing. Vietnam could use that one until Brahmos NG is available.


As I indicated, a single 'regular' airlaunched Brahmos on Flanker, more if/when Brahmos-M/NG available.



Carlosa said:


> I don't know what navies did it, but I have a picture with 2 quad KH-35 launchers and a 76 mm gun.



But I do have an issue posting pics, the service that I used to use to upload the pics to and then insert in PDF no longer works. Can you recommend one?[/QUOTE]

It probably is not an OSA (project 205, 1960 onwards, 400+ hulls) but a similar, modified Matka class hydrofoil missile boat (project 206.6, 1977 onwards, 12 hulls). These boats are the descendants of the Osa-class missile boat and are in fact a heavily modified version of the Turya-class torpedo boat (project 206M, 1972 onwards, 51 hulls). Of 12 completed, 9 remained with Russia in the 1990s, 3 currently in service. At least 1 unit modified with Kh-35.



> _R-44_ serves as a developmental ship for the Black Sea Fleet, and was the first vessel anywhere to carry the SS-N-25 “Switchblade” missile, in two quad-canisters. These were removed in 2000 but re-installed in 2003. In 1998, the SP-521 combat data system was installed. _R-44_ also has the AK-630М1-2 Roy CIWS which is two 30 mm gatling guns superimposed on each other, in place of the AK-630. More recently, the ship has been seen with no “Drum Tilt” radar and a large deckhouse between the bridge and mast.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matka-class_missile_boat#Project_206.6

Project 206 OSA_-_I/OSA-II































Hydrofoil in action.

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## Carlosa

gtiger said:


> The cause of mass animal deaths (especially those living water) can be quite difficult to determine. Take the case of the mass Asian carp fish deaths in Kentucky a few years back. The experts were baffled, and could only theorized that the fish died because the water was highly oxigenated (!) Why other fish species didn't die was un-explainable.



Sure, I understand, but in this case there is some interesting evidence, like the fact that a diver saw a yellow cloud coming out from the Formosa pipe and the original declarations from Formosa saying that Vietnam had to choose between fish and a modern steel industry. Also the fact that the pipe was set up in secret and without approval from the relevant environmental organization. You don't operate in such a way if you plan to comply with the rules.



Penguin said:


> But nothing of this would derail my main points. Brahmos is supersonice, Kh-59 subsonic and so Brahmos would be providing additional capability.



I'm not trying to derail anything man, just adding information.



Penguin said:


>



Those are the pics I was referring to.


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## Penguin

Carlosa said:


> Those are the pics I was referring to.


Ok, so that is only a conversion in that the Matka's original missile system was swapped out for more modern Uran's. The Matka itself is a different design from Osa (although there are similarities and connections)

Hershen class (project 206) torpedo boat > Turya class (project 206M) torpedo hydrofoil > Matka class (project 206.6) missile hydrofoil

The Project 206 family of fast attack craft (NATO: Shershen, Turya, and Matka class) are based on the Project 205 and share a common engine room design.

http://russianships.info/eng/warfareboats/

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## Aqsuperman

Navy venerable Zis 3. Fairly old but quite mobile and a pretty fast fring rate


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## Viet

*Vietnam paddles its own Kayak*

By Douglas Barrie, Senior Fellow for Military Aerospace, and Tom Waldwyn, Research Analyst for Defence and Military Analysis

Date: 05 June 2016 

_ Vietnam is believed to be embarking on a programme to produce its own variant of a missile based on the Russian Zvezda-Strela 3M24 Uran (SS-N-25 Switchblade). While the details of how it will be produced are not yet clear, the programme would be a boost to local industry. It would also be likely to simplify logistics support for the 3M24s already being operated by the Vietnam People’s navy, write Douglas Barrie and Tom Waldwyn. _









Vietnam has become the second Asia-Pacific nation, it would appear, to embark on the indigenous production of a missile based on the Russian Zvezda-Strela 3M24 _Uran_ (SS-N-25 _Switchblade)_. The first is North Korea, which has previously shown footage of a missile that closely resembles the Russian medium-range anti-ship weapon.

Unlike Pyongyang, however, Hanoi has been at least slightly more forthcoming as to the nature of its own programme. The Vietnamese variant of the missile is designated the KCT 15 and is the result of technology transfer from Russia. Whether this represents a full production capacity, or licensed final assembly, or something in between, has yet to become clear. Vietnam and Russia began to discuss local ‘manufacture’ of the 3M24 in 2011–12. Zvezda-Strela, the design house behind the 3M24, is part of Russia’s Tactical Missiles Corp.

The initial acquisition of the 3M24 from Russia was aimed at improving the anti-surface warfare capacity of the Vietnam People’s Navy. Regional maritime tensions are propelling naval weapons-programme acquisitions. Vietnamese manufacture of its version of the 3M24 will help develop local industry and likely simplify logistics support. The unit cost of a round will probably be reduced.

How North Korea acquired the technology to support its programme, possibly known as the KN-01, has yet to be ascertained.

The KCT 15 was first shown publicly in late 2015 as part of a display of defence technology that also included air defence surveillance radar. The missile was shown alongside a twin launcher for surface vessels. The Vietnamese navy already operates the 3M24, with the missile providing the main anti-ship armament of the_Gepard_-class frigate. The navy operates two of this class at present with a further two under construction. The_Switchblade_ is also the main armament of the navy’s six _Tarantul_ V fast missile boats, as well as its single BPS-500 corvette.

The active radar-guided 3M24 is in service with a number of nations apart from Russia, including India and Algeria. An air-launched variant, the Kh-35 (AS-20 _Kayak_) has also been integrated on helicopters and on fixed-wing aircraft for the maritime strike role. Work on the basic 3M24 began in the early 1980s and it had a maximum range of 130km, but some local press reports suggest the KCT 15 has around double this range.








There has also been a suggestion in the media that the licence agreement with Russia covers three versions of the missile. These could conceivably cover the air-launched Kh-35 and also the coastal defence variant, the 3K60 _Bal_, known in the West as the SSC-6 _Sennight._

The KCT 15 that was put on display differed from the basic 3M24 in that there was no inlet duct between the mid-body wing for the turbofan engine. An upgraded air-launched variant, known as the Kh-35U, has a revised layout for the engine, which is repositioned in an enlarged rear-fuselage section. This provides for greater fuel capacity and extends the missile’s maximum range. The KCT 15 shown, however, did not correspond to this configuration. A further option is that the design has a flush intake, although this was not visible on the missile displayed.

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## Viet

Vietnam Kct-15 AShM is a clone of Russia´s Kh-35E. turbofan engine, range 130 km, top speed Mach 0.8, 10 m sea skimming en route to target, 4 m on final approach, active radar seeker. a recent article states Russia has just completed the missile transfer technology to Vietnam, with all three variants (launched by air, sea and land platforms).

Interestingly, as the article states, also, Russia allows Vietnam to produce maximum 3,000 Kct-15, and to sell missile surplus to friendly countries.

@Carlosa 
@Penguin 
@Aqsuperman 

what do you think, do we need 3,000 Kct-15 AShM?

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## Viet

Overkill. No, I don´t think we need to produce 3,000 missiles, waste of money and resources.

Though we need more missiles. Ba Son shipyard manufactures Molynia corvettes for the Navy till day. the shipyard is in the process of moving to a new location, with facilities capable to manufacture warships of 2,000 tons. a Molynia carries 16 missiles. Assuming the shipyard develops a new warship based upon Molniya, but with 2,000 tons instead of 560 tons displacement. such warship would carry 32 missiles.

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...-naval-vessels-with-new-shipyard-3402769.html

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> ...and assuming they were to have the proper ISR assets (I guess when they get the C-295 AWACS), those Brahmos can reach the periphery of the Spratlys and if they are launched from ships not far from the coast, they can still reach deep into the Spratlys. That would not be a bad capability to have at all.



It’s true that VN is seriously looking at the C-295 AEW and I personally think VN will eventually acquire it, but here is a question: how do you think C-295 AEW can be integrated with Su-30 carrying Brahmos or any other Russian platforms? VN does not possess the required source codes and capability to intergrate the system themselves without Russian involvement/permissions, and its also very unlikely that Russia and any US/NATO allies/partners with share codes and cooperate together for VN.

It is clear, and VPA officials has already revealed, that VN wants an integrated C4ISTAR system. And VN’s decision (before it was cancelled for other reasons) to go for a western ship with western sensors and missiles already hinted at what direction the navy wanted to go for. The soon to be 6 P3C orders will also confirms this. Basically, the core of the naval arm of the VPA will be built around an integrated C4ISTAR system, and this networked C4ISTAR system is not going to be Russian-based. Of course, this could change if Russian decides to go one-up and offer something more delicious (which I doubt).

So, the Gepards are just a (overpriced) stop gap purchase, if Brahmos is purchased then it could be seen as a stop gap solution too, “domestic” Kh-35 is just a stepping stone for Viet engineers to gain knowledge and experience. If India couldn’t get all the source codes and authority for the Brahmos that they spent a lot of money on, then don’t expect too much for the VN “domestic” Kh-35 in terms of ToT.

So the Gepards/Brahmos/Uran, etc. will not be the core of the VPA navy’s long term plan. The core plan will be based around that C4ISTAR system, and we already have some clue what will be in that system...western radars and sensors, non-Russian frigates, C-295 AEW, western ASW platforms like P3Cs.

The more interesting weapons to ponder about are what the non-Russian missiles and armaments are going to be, what will that non-Russian radars and sensors going to be? what will the naval F/A-18V be armed with? remember US based missiles will not be the only option. There are plenty of other options too such as NSM, Exocet (VPA’s first decision), Gabriel V, etc. So I recommend you explore into this direction.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> It’s true that VN is seriously looking at the C-295 AEW and I personally think VN will eventually acquire it, but here is a question: how do you think C-295 AEW can be integrated with Su-30 carrying Brahmos or any other Russian platforms? VN does not possess the required source codes and capability to intergrate the system themselves without Russian involvement/permissions, and its also very unlikely that Russia and any US/NATO allies/partners with share codes and cooperate together for VN.
> 
> It is clear, and VPA officials has already revealed, that VN wants an integrated C4ISTAR system. And VN’s decision (before it was cancelled for other reasons) to go for a western ship with western sensors and missiles already hinted at what direction the navy wanted to go for. The soon to be 6 P3C orders will also confirms this. Basically, the core of the naval arm of the VPA will be built around an integrated C4ISTAR system, and this networked C4ISTAR system is not going to be Russian-based. Of course, this could change if Russian decides to go one-up and offer something more delicious (which I doubt).
> 
> So, the Gepards are just a (overpriced) stop gap purchase, if Brahmos is purchased then it could be seen as a stop gap solution too, “domestic” Kh-35 is just a stepping stone for Viet engineers to gain knowledge and experience. If India couldn’t get all the source codes and authority for the Brahmos that they spent a lot of money on, then don’t expect too much for the VN “domestic” Kh-35 in terms of ToT.
> 
> So the Gepards/Brahmos/Uran, etc. will not be the core of the VPA navy’s long term plan. The core plan will be based around that C4ISTAR system, and we already have some clue what will be in that system...western radars and sensors, non-Russian frigates, C-295 AEW, western ASW platforms like P3Cs.
> 
> The more interesting weapons to ponder about are what the non-Russian missiles and armaments are going to be, what will that non-Russian radars and sensors going to be? what will the naval F/A-18V be armed with? remember US based missiles will not be the only option. There are plenty of other options too such as NSM, Exocet (VPA’s first decision), Gabriel V, etc. So I recommend you explore into this direction.



Good question. It really depends on Russia releasing the information needed so that they can be integrated in a western based C4ISTAR system. As a example, India asked Russia to integrate the R-73 air to air missile with the Tejas systems and Russia asked for so much money that India in the end decided to go with Python 5 instead of R-73. India also decided to use the Derby-ER for the long range air to air. That is also a very good option for VN for the air to air missiles for the F-16 / F-18. The Python 5 and Derby ER is a good combo and the Python and Derby are already used for Spyder.

As I used to hear, the tech transfer for the KH-35 didn't include the propulsion and the seeker and those are the most important parts. Its always been my feeling that is difficult to get real tech transfer from Russia (other than to China).

I think its better for VN to go the western route as it seems to be going and to rely on Israeli and Indian equipment and assistance as much as possible. Those two have a lot of experience in dealing with Russian equipment and at the same time to push Russia hard to release the information needed.

VN did a great job itself with the set up of the integrated network for air surveillance (or whatever the proper name is). The Viettel people integrated all the radars and air defense systems in Vietnam into that network and they did it very fast. I guess those skills are going to be needed again to integrate Russian and western equipment for the upcoming C4ISTAR system. Part of that system is already done and it was done by Viettel, so lets hope that they can handle the job.

I don't know what other systems will be chosen for the American jets. I only have a clear expectation for the Python / Derby ER combo, I think that makes sense. Other than that, I don't know. There are many options, but I think India and Israel can help a lot in that area.



William Hung said:


> So, the Gepards are just a (overpriced) stop gap purchase



That's exactly how I feel about the Gepard and the fact that they want to keep buying them makes no sense to me.



William Hung said:


> So the Gepards/Brahmos/Uran, etc. will not be the core of the VPA navy’s long term plan. .



Its very clear to me that the road map for Vietnam has the name India written all over. India, same as Vietnam, used to buy everything from Russia and now just integrates the best from Russia, Israel and other western tech at the same time that they develop their own tech and use tech transfer. That's the model for Vietnam and once India develops / integrate something, they can also give it to VN. Simple.



William Hung said:


> It’s true that VN is seriously looking at the C-295 AEW and I personally think VN will eventually acquire it, but here is a question: how do you think C-295 AEW can be integrated with Su-30 carrying Brahmos or any other Russian platforms? VN does not possess the required source codes and capability to intergrate the system themselves without Russian involvement/permissions, and its also very unlikely that Russia and any US/NATO allies/partners with share codes and cooperate together for VN..



I don't think its necessary for Russia to share the source code of their systems, they just need to provide some technical information that is needed in order to integrate them with western equipment.

I was just reading yesterday that the Viettel engineers integrated the Pantsyr system into the air surveillance network, so it might not be as difficult as you think, but I certainly don't know enough to say how easy or difficult it is.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Overkill. No, I don´t think we need to produce 3,000 missiles, waste of money and resources.
> 
> Though we need more missiles. Ba Son shipyard manufactures Molynia corvettes for the Navy till day. the shipyard is in the process of moving to a new location, with facilities capable to manufacture warships of 2,000 tons. a Molynia carries 16 missiles. Assuming the shipyard develops a new warship based upon Molniya, but with 2,000 tons instead of 560 tons displacement. such warship would carry 32 missiles.
> 
> http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...-naval-vessels-with-new-shipyard-3402769.html



No need for 3000 but it also does not mean that VN paid for 3000 either. Its just the upper limit of what the contract allows.


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## Aqsuperman

A beautiful shot of our Kilo. A submarine pen would be under execution now........hopefully.


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## Viet

why is it a must to have the source code of a particular system?

the P-3 patrol aircraft can report when spotting the x-y-z coordinates of enemy ships and submarines to the military command, which will in turn coordinate our fighter jets, surface warships and submarines to hunt them. when our people visited the US Marines base in the Pacific, they also seemed having interest on that flying shark UAV


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## Viet

*Ba Son shipyard*

The actual naval shipyard Ba Son is located in Saigon. with buildings and warehouses dated back the Nguyen dynasty.









the new $890 million Ba Son naval shipyard will be located in Vung Tao, a more strategic place lying direct close the SC Sea. since September 2015 under construction, expected to be complete in early 2018. It will be capable of building naval vessels with displacement of 500 to 2,000 tons and providing repair services for naval ships with displacement of up to 5,000 tons, contructing transport vessels of up to 70,000 DWT and repair transport ships of up to 150,000 DWT.








once the old Ba Son is moved out, the domestic property developer Vinhome develops the prime area into a place for people with deep pocket.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> why is it a must to have the source code of a particular system?
> 
> the P-3 patrol aircraft can report when spotting the x-y-z coordinates of enemy ships and submarines to the military command, which will in turn coordinate our fighter jets, surface warships and submarines to hunt them. when our people visited the US Marines base in the Pacific, they also seemed having interest on that flying shark UAV



There is no need to actually have the source code, just need some technical information that comes from the party that has the source code, Russia. Different platforms need to use the same communication protocols and need to exchange information. For example, a C-295 AWACS needs to be able to guide a Brahmos launched from A SU-30 to target, so that requires that all those different systems can interface together.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> There is no need to actually have the source code, just need some technical information that comes from the party that has the source code, Russia. Different platforms need to use the same communication protocols and need to exchange information. For example, a C-295 AWACS needs to be able to guide a Brahmos launched from A SU-30 to target, so that requires that all those different systems can interface together.


exactly. what we need to know is the x-y coordinates of targets, be it a ship or airport, acquired by our spy aircraft, be it P-3 or Airbus AEW patrol planes. destroying targets by brahmos or our actual kalibre cruise missiles.

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> flying shark UAV


 lol its a RQ-7 Shadown :v


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> exactly. what we need to know is the x-y coordinates of targets, be it a ship or airport, acquired by our spy aircraft, be it P-3 or Airbus AEW patrol planes. destroying targets by brahmos or our actual kalibre cruise missiles.



In the particular case of Brahmos working together with SU-30 and western ISR systems, it should be no problem at all since that's how India is also using it. 

Now, if you want to use Russian anti ship missiles in a F-16 / 18, that's another story, you need to have the right technical information from both Russia and USA. USA would use the Russian missile info to interface the Russian missiles into the F-16 source code. Maybe @gambit can give us some feedback about how complicated that is or not.

If you need Israeli systems on a F-16 / 18, that's also no problem since Israel is already doing that.

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## Penguin

Viet said:


> Overkill. No, I don´t think we need to produce 3,000 missiles, waste of money and resources.
> 
> Though we need more missiles. Ba Son shipyard manufactures Molynia corvettes for the Navy till day. the shipyard is in the process of moving to a new location, with facilities capable to manufacture warships of 2,000 tons. a Molynia carries 16 missiles. Assuming the shipyard develops a new warship based upon Molniya, but with 2,000 tons instead of 560 tons displacement. such warship would carry 32 missiles.
> 
> http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vi...-naval-vessels-with-new-shipyard-3402769.html



Looking at IN ships, 1500 ton Kora and 6200 ton Delhi classes still carry just 4x4. 
What is the use of 32 AShM in one hull, other than concentrating much into a single target ;-)


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> In the particular case of Brahmos working together with SU-30 and western ISR systems, it should be no problem at all since that's how India is also using it.
> 
> Now, if you want to use Russian anti ship missiles in a F-16 / 18, that's another story, you need to have the right technical information from both Russia and USA. USA would use the Russian missile info to interface the Russian missiles into the F-16 source code. Maybe @gambit can give us some feedback about how complicated that is or not.
> 
> If you need Israeli systems on a F-16 / 18, that's also no problem since Israel is already doing that.


I don´t think it is feasible: russian weapons on american planes and vice versa. dealing with both US and Russia diplomatically is complicated enough, bringing both weapon systems of competing sharks together is an impossible task. no way.

gambit has a "difficult" view on Vietnam. I once argued with him on the Vietnam war. I gave up.



Penguin said:


> Looking at IN ships, 1500 ton Kora and 6200 ton Delhi classes still carry just 4x4.
> What is the use of 32 AShM in one hull, other than concentrating much into a single target ;-)


our navy has less warships than our opponent, hence any ship should carry more. besides, it is for missile saturation attacks.


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## Penguin

Viet said:


> I don´t think it is feasible: russian weapons on american planes and vice versa. dealing with both US and Russia diplomatically is complicated enough, bringing both weapon systems of competing sharks together is an impossible task. no way.
> 
> gambit has a "difficult" view on Vietnam. I once argued with him on the Vietnam war. I gave up.
> 
> 
> our navy has less warships than our opponent, hence any ship should carry more. besides, it is for missile saturation attacks.


In that case, I suggest using existing small container ships to back up your navy ships. Instant 'arsenal ships'

*PHUC KHANH * Container Ship




http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais.../mmsi:574002540/imo:9318905/vessel:PHUC_KHANH

Fitted out with container mounted Kh-35 Uran or 3M54E Club (can also be put on truck, train, any flat surface e.g. islands):

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## Viet

Penguin, I like that container version. Cheap but effective. Protected against sunshine and curious eyes. 3,000 AShM need to be deployed somewhere. The Russians know, also, we defend their interest in the region


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## Carlosa

India plans to offer HAL’s Dhruv and LCH to Vietnam Published June 12, 2016 SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK




Supersonic BrahMos Cruise missile is not the only weapons system which India plans to Export to Vietnam well informed and highly reliable sources close to idrw.org and now Defence Ministry plans to allow HAL and DRDO officials to hold further talks with Vietnam officials to explore export of other defence weapons to Vietnam. State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) plans to revive previously held discussions with Vietnam officials on sale of Advanced Light Helicopter “Dhruv” Helicopters and also plans to offer Light Combat Helicopter which is still under development but lately has been generating lot of interest from various countries due to its cheaper price tags and its ability to perform exceptionally well in higher altitudes.

HAL also plans to explore the possibility of collaboration on training crews and supply of spares for Sukhoi Su-30MK2 fighter fleet operated by Vietnam . DRDO on other hand wants to offer indigenously developed Ground level radars , communication , Surveillance equipment along with many Naval Types of equipment developed by its associated labs for equipment in warships . India and Vietnam recently discussed the sale of Mobile Coastal Battery equipped with BrahMos missile for use against sea-based targets.
http://idrw.org/india-plans-offer-hals-dhruv-lch-vietnam/#more-98124 .

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## Nike

better to taking Mi-35 for attack roles, or Eurocopter Panther


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## Viet

*The decisive Battle of Ban Me Thuot*

the days that write history. after 2 years preparations, after a series of assaults on Southern Vietnamese Army since beginning of 1975, the 4th Corps of the North Vietnamese Army staged the final assault on Ban Me Thuot. 10th March. the town with highways connecting to its northern, eastern and southern provinces and airlines through Hoa Binh and Town’s airports was the economic, political, military and cultural centre of the Central Highlands.

The fall of Ban Me Thuot and the nearly total annihilation of the Southern Vietnamese II Army Corps sent a shock wave through the country, leading to an unthinkable, with the sentiment among the army and public: the end is coming. although the United States made the last effort to stabilze the front, the total collapse of the South Vietnamese Army was just a matter of time. so came the inevitable: the unconditional surrender of the government in April 30th 1975.

The battle decides the Vietnam war.

Though it is some time ago, I still remember of the days when our families along with all others packed our necessary personal belongings, fleeing to Saigon, hoping to escape the rapid advance of north vietnamese tanks.


North Vietnamese assault on Ban Me Thuot

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## frequency

Viet said:


> *Ba Son shipyard*
> 
> The actual naval shipyard Ba Son is located in Saigon. with buildings and warehouses dated back the Nguyen dynasty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the new $890 million Ba Son naval shipyard will be located in Vung Tao, a more strategic place lying direct close the SC Sea. since September 2015 under construction, expected to be complete in early 2018. It will be capable of building naval vessels with displacement of 500 to 2,000 tons and providing repair services for naval ships with displacement of up to 5,000 tons, contructing transport vessels of up to 70,000 DWT and repair transport ships of up to 150,000 DWT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> once the old Ba Son is moved out, the domestic property developer Vinhome develops the prime area into a place for people with deep pocket.


Hey viet, do u know if this shipyad is a modern one? I mean are they building these ships using advance technology?


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## Water Car Engineer

Carlosa said:


> India plans to offer HAL’s Dhruv and LCH to Vietnam Published June 12, 2016 SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Supersonic BrahMos Cruise missile is not the only weapons system which India plans to Export to Vietnam well informed and highly reliable sources close to idrw.org and now Defence Ministry plans to allow HAL and DRDO officials to hold further talks with Vietnam officials to explore export of other defence weapons to Vietnam. State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) plans to revive previously held discussions with Vietnam officials on sale of Advanced Light Helicopter “Dhruv” Helicopters and also plans to offer Light Combat Helicopter which is still under development but lately has been generating lot of interest from various countries due to its cheaper price tags and its ability to perform exceptionally well in higher altitudes.
> 
> HAL also plans to explore the possibility of collaboration on training crews and supply of spares for Sukhoi Su-30MK2 fighter fleet operated by Vietnam . DRDO on other hand wants to offer indigenously developed Ground level radars , communication , Surveillance equipment along with many Naval Types of equipment developed by its associated labs for equipment in warships . India and Vietnam recently discussed the sale of Mobile Coastal Battery equipped with BrahMos missile for use against sea-based targets.
> http://idrw.org/india-plans-offer-hals-dhruv-lch-vietnam/#more-98124 .




idrw isnt a good source, ignore it.

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## gtiger

Carlosa said:


> There is no need to actually have the source code, just need some technical information that comes from the party that has the source code, Russia. Different platforms need to use the same communication protocols and need to exchange information. For example, a C-295 AWACS needs to be able to guide a Brahmos launched from A SU-30 to target, so that requires that all those different systems can interface together.


Most corporations demand source code access for many reasons, with the primary one being that in case the original software provider is no longer interested in or not capable of supporting the software, at least they have the options of finding ways to make such systems last a bit longer. With multi-million dollar (or in defense, multi-billion dollar) investment, no one wants to be the victim of a software vendor that goes bankrupt. By then it's too late to get hold of the software.

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## Viet

frequency said:


> Hey viet, do u know if this shipyad is a modern one? I mean are they building these ships using advance technology?


little is known what technology will be utilized at the new Ba Son shipyard at Vung Tao. all we know is the sum of investment ($890 million), building warships of 2,000 tons, transport vessels of 70,000 tons, capable to repair transport ships of up to 150,000 tons. the last is especially interesting, because such heavy tonnage hints to aircraft carriers. start of operation in early 2018. we may know more facts and figures in the times to come.








by the way, Vietnam shipbuilding industry is on the rise, after years of painful decline. collapse of Vinashin. for example, last month, the May, if you look at the statistic. a total of 38 orders equivalent to 1.06 million CGT (Compensated Gross Tonnage) were placed. Vietnam is at third place. I think it is not too bad.

Germany 590,000 CGT
Rumanian 140,000 CGT
*Vietnam* 90,000 CGT
China 80,300 CGT
Japan 77,000 CGT
South Korea 40,000 DWT

once dominating the world in shipbuilding, the south Koreans suffer a heavy blow. especially the shipbuilder Samsung Heavy Industries’ receives zero order.

http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/english/news/industry/14883-first-sixth-south-korea’s-shipbuilding-industry-losing-its-competitive-edge


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## Aqsuperman

A closer look of a Kh-35 quad launcher. There are news about some variant of both the launcher and the missiles for special purpose.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> little is known what technology will be utilized at the new Ba Son shipyard at Vung Tao. all we know is the sum of investment ($890 million), building warships of 2,000 tons, transport vessels of 70,000 tons, capable to repair transport ships of up to 150,000 tons. the last is especially interesting, because such heavy tonnage hints to aircraft carriers. start of operation in early 2018. we may know more facts and figures in the times to come.
> 
> 
> View attachment 310131
> 
> 
> 
> by the way, Vietnam shipbuilding industry is on the rise, after years of painful decline. collapse of Vinashin. for example, last month, the May, if you look at the statistic. a total of 38 orders equivalent to 1.06 million CGT (Compensated Gross Tonnage) were placed. Vietnam is at third place. I think it is not too bad.
> 
> Germany 590,000 CGT
> Rumanian 140,000 CGT
> *Vietnam* 90,000 CGT
> China 80,300 CGT
> Japan 77,000 CGT
> South Korea 40,000 DWT
> 
> once dominating the world in shipbuilding, the south Koreans suffer a heavy blow. especially the shipbuilder Samsung Heavy Industries’ receives zero order.
> 
> http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/english/news/industry/14883-first-sixth-south-korea’s-shipbuilding-industry-losing-its-competitive-edge



Vietnam as the No.3 shipbuilding country? Fantastic!

But why don't you look at the figures of longer period of time to understand how tiny Vietnam is on the global shipbuilding market?

*New contracts volume by regions *
source: Clarksons (May 2016 publication)





What's more, the Vietnam shipbuilding industry is almost fully controlled by Korean company. Hyundai Vinashin, the shipyard owned by Hyundai Group, contributes 79% of total orderbook of the Vietnam shipbuilding industry (1.496/1.9 = 79%)

If the deterioration of the shipbuilding industry in Korea continues, do you think the Korean guys will be happy to continue to put the work outside Korea? Or you think the Korean guys put the interests of Vietnam firstly?

*Data on Hyundai Vinashin*
source: Clarksons (May 2016 publication)





*Orderbook of Vietnam, by types*
source: Clarksons (May 2016 publication)

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Vietnam as the No.3 shipbuilding country? Fantastic!
> 
> But why don't you look at the figures of longer period of time to understand how tiny Vietnam is on the global shipbuilding market?
> 
> *New contracts volume by regions *
> source: Clarksons (May 2016 publication)
> View attachment 310150
> 
> 
> What's more, the Vietnam shipbuilding industry is almost fully controlled by Korean company. Hyundai Vinashin, the shipyard owned by Hyundai Group, contributes 79% of total orderbook of the Vietnam shipbuilding industry (1.496/1.9 = 79%)
> 
> If the deterioration of the shipbuilding industry in Korea continues, do you think the Korean guys will be happy to continue to put the work outside Korea? Or you think the Korean guys put the interests of Vietnam firstly?
> 
> *Data on Hyundai Vinashin*
> source: Clarksons (May 2016 publication)
> View attachment 310151
> 
> 
> *Orderbook of Vietnam, by types*
> source: Clarksons (May 2016 publication)
> View attachment 310152


thanks. that proves again the point, I states previously in other thread, China is the best of the bests. Congrat.


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## Carlosa

gtiger said:


> Most corporations demand source code access for many reasons, with the primary one being that in case the original software provider is no longer interested in or not capable of supporting the software, at least they have the options of finding ways to make such systems last a bit longer. With multi-million dollar (or in defense, multi-billion dollar) investment, no one wants to be the victim of a software vendor that goes bankrupt. By then it's too late to get hold of the software.



That makes sense, but in regards to our issue it would not be practical. Just imagine, the Russians giving their source code to an American company to integrate Russian equipment to their systems? Never. The Russians don't even give the source code to India which is their development partner.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> better to taking Mi-35 for attack roles, or Eurocopter Panther



Sounds good if you don't mind paying 3 or 4 times the price.


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## Viet

*Gepard Frigate*

What´s new on the Gepard light frigates #3 and #4, configured as Submarine hunter?
the Gepard have 2x2 533mm DTA-53 tubes, firing SET-65KE torpedoes. weight 2,070 kg, max range 20 km, top speed 45 knots.









similar configuration in some warships of India Navy








some other pics of the Gepard docking at the shipyard. handover to Vietnam Navy expected to be in August and September this year.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Sounds good if you don't mind paying 3 or 4 times the price.



Indonesia bought all of them, the Navy bought Eurocopter Panther, the Army bought Mi-35 and Apache


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Denmark government’s evaluation report for F-35 vs EF-2000 vs F/A-18. Suprisingly F-35 cost less than both the other two.
> 
> http://www.fmn.dk/eng/allabout/new-fighter/Pages/new-fighter.aspx
> 
> but note that Boeing have rejected the Danish evaluation and said that the figure for the F/A-18 was over-estimated by 50%-100%.



As expected, the Danish evaluation was biased to favor the F-35:

*Technical Foul: Denmark Omits Important Data to Secure F-35 Deal*
© Flickr/ US Air Force
MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
13:39 14.06.2016
*With passions around Denmark's controversial decision to strike a costly warplane deal with the US still seething, the Danish Defense Ministry was recently found out to have omitted important details on the F-35's rivals under a false pretext. Therefore, foul play is suspected on Copenhagen's part.*






© FLICKR/ AIRMAN MAGAZINE

Flying a Kite: Epic F-35 Deal Leaves Denmark Vulnerable and Penniless

In May, Denmark finally settled on 27 Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighter jets, thus wrecking the chances of the two other candidates, Boeing's Super Hornet and Airbus's Eurofighter Typhoon. However, the objectivity of the Defense Ministry in connection with the 8 billion dollar deal is now in question, as vital information on the F-35's rivals was reportedly left out on purpose.

According to recent reports, the Defense Ministry omitted information about the flight performance of the Boeing and Airbus planes on the grounds that they supposedly failed to meet the deadline and provide the details in time, a claim both aircraft manufacturers strongly deny.

"The German Defense Ministry and US industry delivered the answers to the technical questions before the deadline on April 6. Therefore, we expected of course the submitted data to be taken into account the in the final report report," Lars Jørgensen Illum, sales chief for Airbus in Denmark, said.

"This is just another example of how the F-35 came to look so good in the final report," Peter Viggo Jakobsen, associate professor at the Defense Academy, told the Danish newspaper Berlingske. "One is left with the impression that everything was done to have the F-35 win," he further said.





© FLICKR/ FORSVARSDEPARTEMENTET
I Can Hear Those Fighter Planes: Danes Balk at Purchase of Noisy New Jets

According to Eva Flyvholm of the Red-Green Alliance, which has been very critical of Copenhagen's participation in the "arms race," the revelation has enhanced the impression that the stage was set for the F-35 from the very beginning.

"At best, this is extremely sloppy, at worst, it is sheer manipulation," Eva Flyvholm said.

According to aircraft expert Andreas Krog, it is very unfortunate, that the report that laid the foundation for a costly warplane deal is being questioned once again.

"This is another pebble in the big picture of a messy report," Andreas Krog told Politiken.

Meanwhile, the ink is still drying on the political agreement for the update of the fighter aircraft fleet. The discussion ended in a deal between the Social Democrats, the Social Liberals, the Liberal Alliance and the Danish People's Party to buy a total of 21 F-35 fighters, while retaining the option to buy six extra warplanes should the budget be able to handle it.


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## Carlosa

*Military aircraft goes missing during training session*

VNA TUESDAY, JUNE 14, 2016 - 15:01:06  PRINT




A Su 30Mk2 aircraft of Vietnam's Air Defence – Air Force Service (Photo: militaryphotos.net)

*Nghe An (VNA) *– The waters off the coast of the central province of Nghe An are being searched to look for a military aircraft that went missing during a training session on early June 14. 

The Su 30Mk2 aircraft, coded 8585, of Regiment 923 under Division 371 of the Air Defence – Air Force Service lost contact at 6:50 am in the area of Hon Mat Island, about 40km off the coast of Nghe An’s Vinh city. 

It carried the deputy head and chief of the staff of Regiment 923, Senior Lieutenant Colonel Tran Quang Khai, and pilot Major Nguyen Huu Cuong. 

Shortly after receiving notification of the incident, the Border Guard High Command of Nghe An ordered border guard posts along the shore to ask the local administration and fishermen operating near Hon Mat Island to join the search for the aircraft. 

Three border guard ships with 35 soldiers on board have been dispatched to search for the missing plane. 

Other coastal border guard posts have also readied vehicles and personnel to be deployed when necessary.-VNA


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## Carlosa

*PM asks for joint efforts to search for missing military aircraft*

VNA TUESDAY, JUNE 14, 2016 - 21:25:27  




Naval ship HQ211 heads to the sea to join the search (Source: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* – Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc sent a dispatch asking for increased efforts to search for a military aircraft which went missing early on June 14 over the waters off central Nghe An province.

The Su 30Mk2 aircraft, of Regiment 923 under Division 371 of the Air Defence – Air Force Service, lost contact at 6:50 am during a training session in the area of Hon Mat Island, about 40km off the coast of Nghe An’s Vinh city. 

The aircraft was carrying deputy head and chief of staff of Regiment 923, Senior Lieutenant Colonel Tran Quang Khai, and pilot Major Nguyen Huu Cuong. 

The Prime Minister asked the Defence Ministry to seek all measures and mobilise forces to speed up the search for the two pilots and the aircraft. 

The ministry is required to investigate reasons for the incident and review the flight control process to learn from experience to avoid similar accidents. 

He asked the National Committee for Search and Rescue, the People’s Committees of Nghe An and Thanh Hoa provinces, the Ministry of Transport, and the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development to direct relevant offices to effectively carry out search and rescue activities. 

A command post was set up at the military command of Nghe An’s Cua Lo township on the afternoon of June 14. 

At 4 pm, marine teams of the province’s Border Guard High Command and Naval Region 1 loaded food and about 2,000 litres of freshwater onto naval ship HQ211 to support the search force at sea. 

Shortly after receiving notification of the incident, the provincial Border Guard High Command ordered border guard posts along the shore to ask the local administration and fishermen operating near Hon Mat Island to join in the search. 

Three border guard ships with 35 soldiers on board were also dispatched to look for the missing fighter. 

Other coastal border guard posts have also readied vehicles and personnel to be deployed when necessary.-VNA

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Indonesia bought all of them, the Navy bought Eurocopter Panther, the Army bought Mi-35 and Apache



I guess Indonesia is rich!


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## vtnsx

Carlosa said:


> I guess Indonesia is rich!



They have $900 billion US dollars in GDP.

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## Viet

*Aerial Defence*

Vietnam integrated aerial defence for northeastern front. consisting of a network of radars, notably domestic made RV-02 UHF acquistion radars and ukraine ST68UM search radars. RV-02 is a further development of RV-01, originated in Belarus, capable to detect aircraft at a distance of 360 km. powerful Ukrainian-made 3D search radar ST68UM can detect stealth aircrafts, strategic cruise missiles, tactical ballistic missiles and other targets with a reflection surface up to 0.02 sq. m. flying at speeds up to 2.800 m/s in massive enemy air raids and heavy clutter and severe ECM environments, capable to detect flying objects at a distance of 170 km.

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## Viet

Vietnam made RV-02 medium range UHF acquisition radar

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## Viet

Arrival of ukrainian-made 3D search radar ST68UM (36D6-M) system in Vietnam

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## Carlosa

*One pilot on missing jet fighter found

VNA WEDNESDAY, JUNE 15, 2016 - 9:00:03 



Freshwater is carried onto naval ship HQ211 to support searching forces at sea (Photo: VNA)

Nghe An (VNA) – Major Nguyen Huu Cuong, a pilot on the military aircraft that went missing during a training session off the coast of the central province of Nghe An, was saved at 5 am of June 15. 

Cuong, who is also the head of the SU30 fighter squadron under Division 371’s Regiment 923 of the Air Defence – Air Force Service, was in stable condition when he was found by fisherman Pham Van Le from the neighbouring province of Ha Tinh. 

A ship was deployed to the fishing boat’s location to carry the pilot back to the mainland. 

Rescue forces are continuing to search for the other on board – Senior Lieutenant Colonel Tran Quang Khai, deputy head and chief of staff of Regiment 923, and the missing aircraft. 

The Su 30MK2 aircraft lost contact at 6:50 am of June 14 during a training session in the area of Hon Mat Island, about 40km off the coast of Nghe An’s Vinh city. 

On June 14, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc sent a dispatch asking the Defence Ministry to seek all measures and mobilise forces to speed up the search for the two pilots and the aircraft. 

The ministry is required to investigate reasons for the incident and review the flight control process to learn from experience to avoid similar accidents.-VNA

------------------------*

*1 pilot rescued from crashed military jet in central Vietnam*

By *Thanh Nien Staff*, Thanh Nien News

*THANH HOA* - Wednesday, June 15, 2016 11:35

Both pilots aboard a Vietnamese Air Force Sukhoi fighter jet that crashed into the sea Tuesday managed to eject safely, but only one has been rescued so far.

The Nghe An Province Border Guard told _Thanh Nien_ that Nguyen Huu Cuong was found by fishermen with a life vest and in stable condition at 5 a.m. Wednesday.
The fishing boat is on its way back to shore with him.

Cuong told the Ministry of Defense by phone from the boat that he and Colonel Tran Quang Khai managed to jump and parachuted into the sea around four kilometers from each other. He could see Khai’s parachute before they drifted apart, he said.

Pham Van Ty, deputy head of the ministry's rescue department, said Cuong was found 60 nautical miles off the coast of Thanh Hoa Province.
A ministry rescue team is still looking for Khai.





An undated photo shows a Russian-made Sukhoi fighter jet. Photo: Ngoc Minh/Thanh Nien
Their Russian-made Su-30MK2 went off the radar at 7:30 a.m. Tuesday during a training flight off the north-central coast.

Rescuers noticed traces of oil in the area at around 10: 50 a.m.
Vietnam in 2009 signed a $500 million contract to buy eight Sukhoi jets from Russia, and has ordered another 32. The first four were delivered in 2011.

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## Viet

Integrated Fire Control System *VQ1-M*, developed by Viettel

The system collects and processes data coming from passive/active radars from ground stations and airplanes, sharing data with artilleries and missile corps. such as Pantsir-S1, a medium range surface-to-air missile and anti-aircraft artillery weapon system. until yesterday, there are only 8 countries in the world having developed such fire control system.

_






















_

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


>



This is our ?


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> This is our ?


if you zoom in, you will see it is loaded on a train. I believe it is not ours. we have till now only one image confirming VN operating Pantsir-S1. and as VQ1-M reportedly has interface to Pantsir-S1, so it is another confirmation that the army has such missile system in place.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> if you zoom in, you will see it is loaded on a train. I believe it is not ours. we have till now only one image confirming VN operating Pantsir-S1. and as VQ1-M reportedly has interface to Pantsir-S1, so it is another confirmation that the army has such missile system in place.



That VQ1-M air defense network was one hell of a job man. VN is only the 9th country in the world to develop such a system by itself and Viettel did it in record time. Viettel is capable of a lot if the military where to decide to give them the opportunity to develop projects.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That VQ1-M air defense network was one hell of a job man. VN is only the 9th country in the world to develop such a system by itself and Viettel did it in record time. Viettel is capable of a lot if the military where to decide to give them the opportunity to develop projects.


yes, Viettel is not too bad, isn´t it?

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## MacanJawa

i say vietnam air defence is good but what kind *artillery* do you have folks?


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> i say vietnam air defence is good but what kind *artillery* do you have folks?


we have thousands of all sorts of artilleries of all different calibres, mostly from Russia and America. if firing in full mode, we would lay most of southeast Asia in ruin, the landscape would become similar to that after the Battle of Verdun (1916) 

a recent development is mobility.

105mm artillery on truck






152 mm artillery will be the next to get on truck.



















as model, Serbia army

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## MacanJawa

Viet said:


> we have thousands of all sorts of artilleries of all different calibres, mostly from Russia and America. if firing in full mode, we would lay most of southeast Asia in ruin, the landscape would become similar to that after the Battle of Verdun (1916)
> 
> a recent development is mobility.
> 
> 105mm artillery on truck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 152 mm artillery will be the next to get on truck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as model, Serbia army



the serbia one is modern include FCS or just manual howitzer mounted on truck?


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## Aqsuperman

Training with MANPADS


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## Carlosa

MacanJawa said:


> i say vietnam air defence is good but what kind *artillery* do you have folks?



Vietnam recently bought 36 units of Caesar 155 mm gun



Viet said:


> yes, Viettel is not too bad, isn´t it?



If you ask me, I would incorporate a lot of Vietnamese defense companies into Viettel as a defense group and I bet everything would run better and much more efficient than at present. Viettel is a world class company that is extremely well managed (a rarity in VN SOEs), effective, efficient and at the leading edge of technology.

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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> the serbia one is modern include FCS or just manual howitzer mounted on truck?


little info what will be man, but I guess, 152mm artillery mounted on truck will be similar to 105mm in the configuration. loading and targeting by hand. coordinates acquisition, concentration of fire on targets supported by unmanned flying drones over the firing area.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> If you ask me, I would incorporate a lot of Vietnamese defense companies into Viettel as a defense group and I bet everything would run better and much more efficient than at present. Viettel is a world class company that is extremely well managed (a rarity in VN SOEs), effective, efficient and at the leading edge of technology.


actually unlike other countries such as Germany and UK, Vietnam does not have private owned defence companies. Viettel belongs to the Army, so do other companies, factories and research institutes. true, Viettel is a good managed company, producing good stuffs for the Armed Forces, from computers to electronic communications equipments to screens to drones, radars and many others. I think if politics does not interfere too much into daily business and let the management do the job, we have a good result. like everywhere.

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## Viet

also, stuffs from Viettel

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## Viet

production facility of Viettel

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> also, stuffs from Viettel



That first picture, what is that?


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> That first picture, what is that?


as I remember, it is control system for all of Viettel communication network (mobile, internet,...)

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## Viet

Thao Nguyen said:


> as I remember, it is control system for all of Viettel communication network (mobile, internet,...)


bingo. yes it is the global Network Control Centre of Viettel. some other developments

VLS for Missiles, not much info about how far we have gone 






or in service: system CGBVVTQG for the Airforce, coordinating the deployment of country aircraft.


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## Thao Nguyen

Viet said:


> bingo. yes it is the global Network Control Centre of Viettel. some other developments
> 
> VLS for Missiles, not much info about how far we have gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or in service: system CGBVVTQG for the Airforce, coordinating the deployment of country aircraft.


the first one if fuel stick for manpad (igla-s)

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## Carlosa

*Vietnamese aircraft goes missing while searching for lost pilot and fighter jet*

JUNE 16, 2016 BY VIETNAMBREAKINGNEWS

A Vietnamese coastguard plane, which was searching for a missing fighter jet and its pilot, disappeared off the radar on Thursday, local media and a military official said, the second such setback in three days.

The CASA C212 plane carrying nine people went missing off the northern town of Hai Phong about noon local time, local media reported, citing military and provincial sources.

The coastguard plane was joining thousands of people looking for a pilot who went missing with a Sukhoi SU-30 MK2 fighter jet on Tuesday along the central part of the country coastline.
A military official working on the rescue confirmed the plane was missing and the numbers on board but requested anonymity as he was not authorised to speak to the media.

He said the CASA plane was descending in order to approach objects the crew believed were the search targets.
A senior military official in charge of the search did not answer his phone when contacted by Reuters. A coast guard official in charge of media said he had no official information to confirm the news.

One of the two pilots flying the Sukhoi jet was rescued from the sea on Wednesday. Coastguards, border guards, navy, air force and fishermen have been searching for the aircraft and the second pilot for two and a half days.

Vietnam has suffered a series of mishaps in the past two years with ageing helicopters.
The country is recalibrating its defence strategy and overseeing its biggest military buildup in four decades, including buying more fighter jets and enlisting Japanese and U.S. help to strengthen Vietnam’s coastguard through training, loans and aid for vessels.

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## pr1v4t33r

Carlosa said:


> *The CASA C212* plane carrying nine people went missing off the northern town of Hai Phong about noon local time, local media reported, citing military and provincial sources.



New plane


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## Thao Nguyen

pr1v4t33r said:


> New plane


no, it's old name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASA_C-212_Aviocar
new name for the version made in Indonesia is NC-212i


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## pr1v4t33r

Thao Nguyen said:


> no, it's old name
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASA_C-212_Aviocar
> new name for the version made in Indonesia is NC-212i



Vietnam only have 3 units C212-400. And they got them in 2011-2012. Thus the one missing is considered a new plane. Get that?


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## Thao Nguyen

pr1v4t33r said:


> Vietnam only have 3 units C212-400. And they get them on 2011-2012. Thus the one missing is considered a new plane. Get that?


off course, I thought you doubt about its name
both off su-30 and casa are new, we just recived that Sukhoi jet in 2015


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## Viet

I believe there are days the Airforce wants to forget. first a Su-30 jet crashed into the sea, and now a C212 patrol aircraft that was searching for the Su-30. with 9 crew on board. the army says the debris of the C212 was found. three CASA C212-400MPA coded 8981, 8982 and 8983 were purchased. top speed of 360km/h, range of 1,800km, with duties reconnaissance, and detecting warships, submarine and other ships. the lost plane was 8983.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I believe there are days the Airforce wants to forget. first a Su-30 jet crashed into the sea, and now a C212 patrol aircraft that was searching for the Su-30. with 9 crew on board. the army says the debris of the C212 was found. three CASA C212-400MPA coded 8981, 8982 and 8983 were purchased. top speed of 360km/h, range of 1,800km, with duties reconnaissance, and detecting warships, submarine and other ships. the lost plane was 8983.



Amazing bad luck. RIP to the C-212 crew and the SU-30 pilot.

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## Viet

Meet the girl, who drives the Cadillac One during the State visit of Barack Obama to Vietnam: a 26-year old *Natalie Tyson*. the armored limousine is reportedly said capable to withstand rapid fire of small calibre rifles, RPGs and gas attacks.

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## siegecrossbow

http://finance.ifeng.com/a/20160617/14499937_0.shtml




> 应越南国防部请求，中国海军于17日派出四艘舰艇前往北部湾海域，协助搜救失事的越南一架空军飞机和一架海警飞机，以及机组人员。目前相关搜救工作正在进行中。
> 
> 背景资料：
> 
> 据路透社14日报道，越南一架俄罗斯制苏-30战机当天上午在南海上空失踪。战机从越南清化省寿春机场起飞进行海上训练，在义安省上空和雷达失去联络。战机上有两名富有经验的飞行员。越南军方称，已组织各方力量寻找，失踪原因尚不清楚。
> 
> 据越通社报道，6月15日早上5时许，河静省一艘渔船已发现并成功营救苏-30战机上的阮友强少校。6月16日12时30分，越南人民军防空-空军军种旗下918团CaSa-212飞机（编号为8983）在越南海防市白龙尾海域搜寻6月14日失踪的苏-30MK2歼击机飞行员陈光凯上校时失踪，机上载有9人。CaSa-212飞机失踪后，越南国防部已立即开展搜寻行动。目前，海警力量和各救援力量已找到CaSa-212飞机的一些残片和物品。
> 应越南要求，中国派出4艘军舰搜救越失事飞机|搜救|中国军队_凤凰财



To summarize, China sent four naval warships to assist Vietnam's search and rescue efforts for the Su-30 and CaSa-212 pilots and crew.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

siegecrossbow said:


> http://finance.ifeng.com/a/20160617/14499937_0.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> To summarize, China sent four naval warships to assist Vietnam's search and rescue efforts for the Su-30 and CaSa-212 pilots and crew.


Welcome back after a long time

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## GS Zhou

siegecrossbow said:


> http://finance.ifeng.com/a/20160617/14499937_0.shtml
> 
> 
> 
> To summarize, China sent four naval warships to assist Vietnam's search and rescue efforts for the Su-30 and CaSa-212 pilots and crew.


there is an old Chinese saying: A near neighbor is better than a distant cousin.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


>



Did you see how thick the doors are? Quite a bit of armor there.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Did you see how thick the doors are? Quite a bit of armor there.


from the picture, I assume it is about 20 cm thick, best of carbon and titan. but I read the car is very heavy (5-8 tons), so my Toyota has more chance in winning a race against the Cadillac despite it has a 1,000 PS engine, top speed 150 kmh

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I believe there are days the Airforce wants to forget. first a Su-30 jet crashed into the sea, and now a C212 patrol aircraft that was searching for the Su-30. with 9 crew on board. the army says the debris of the C212 was found. three CASA C212-400MPA coded 8981, 8982 and 8983 were purchased. top speed of 360km/h, range of 1,800km, with duties reconnaissance, and detecting warships, submarine and other ships. the lost plane was 8983.



The C-212 went down in bad weather and low visibility.


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> from the picture, I assume it is about 20 cm thick, best of carbon and titan. but I read the car is very heavy (5-8 tons), so my Toyota has more chance in winning a race against the Cadillac despite it has a 1,000 PS engine, top speed 150 kmh



What is more interesting is the transmission of the beast. I'm very curious to know.


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## Carlosa

*Body of pilot of Vietnam's missing fighter jet found*

Thanh Nien News

Friday, June 17, 2016 22:39

The body of the second pilot of a Vietnamese Air Force fighter jet that went missing early this week has been recovered this evening, two days after the first pilot was rescued.

Fishermen participating in the rescue at 6 p.m. found the body and parachute floating about 15-18 nautical miles from the site where the Russian-made Sukhoi Su-30 MK2 is believed to have crashed.

A Coast Guard vessel was deployed to the site and confirmed that the body was that of Sen. Lt. Maj. Tran Quang Khai.

The jet went off radar during a training mission on Tuesday. One pilot, Maj. Nguyen Huu Cuong, was found the following day.






A file photo of pilot Tran Quang Khai, who is confirmed dead today after his aircraft went missing this week.

After being rescued, Cuong said that he and Khai managed to eject after they heard an "explosion" in the cockpit. As he was falling down, he could see Khai's parachute, Cuong said.

The search for Khai became deadly yesterday when another airplane crashed in bad weather. The plight of the nine crew members onboard the Coast Guard's Casa 212 plane is still unknown.

More than 40 vessels of the Coast Guard and Navy as well as about 100 fishing boats now continue to search for the missing crew. They found some debris and personal items early today.

Since the plane went down in the Gulf of Tonkin, between Vietnam's northern coastline and China's Hainan Island, Vietnam has requested China's assistance.

In response, China today sent ships to help find the missing plane, Vietnam's defense ministry said.

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## BoQ77

We still dont know the real reason for the Casa c212 went down.
let wait for it


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## Carlosa

*Debris found after Vietnam Coast Guard plane crashes during rescue mission*

Thanh Nien News

*THAI BINH* - Friday, June 17, 2016 10:44






 The red dot indicates the crash site of a Vietnamese coast guard plane June 16. Infographics by Zing

Vietnamese military rescue forces have found debris from a Coast Guard plane that crashed into the sea Thursday with nine people while searching for an Air Force pilot missing from another crashed aircraft a few days earlier.

The turboprop-powered plane went off the radar at around 12:30 p.m. Thursday, about 44 nautical mile southwest of Bach Long Vi Island in the Gulf of Tonkin, which separates the country from China.

A source told Thanh Nien that the debris was found in the waters 12-15 nautical miles southwest of Bach Long Vi Island. The crashed plane is believed to be at a depth of some 58 meters.
But the source refused to comment on the issue of the nine officers onboard the plane, which was piloted by Col. Le Kiem Toan, Commander of Brigade KQ918 of the air force.






Vietnam bought three CASA 212 planes from Airbus Military in Spain between 2012 and 2013.
Major General Nguyen Quang Dam, a Coast Guard commander, was quoted by news website VnExpress as saying preliminary investigation found the plane had crashed while descending due to poor weather.

Deputy Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh met with the Chinese ambassador Thursday night to ask for that country’s facilitation of the search and rescue operation.

The Coast Guard plane was among five aircraft that were joined by more than 100 boats and 1,500 people looking for Col Tran Quang Khai, 43, who has been missing since ejecting from a Sukhoi SU-30 MK2 fighter jet on Tuesday.

Nguyen Huu Cuong, the other pilot aboard the Russian-made plane, was rescued by fishermen Wednesday.

A Coast Guard spokesperson said the search has been expanded to the northern waters after what is suspected to be Khai’s life vest was found off Thai Binh Province.

A coast guard vessel reported on Thursday afternoon that it has found what could be parts of the fighter aircraft, including one wheel.

After the jet went missing, the Vietnamese air force has suspended the practice flights to be conducted by the same plane model.

The latest incidents follows a series of mishaps that hit the military in the past two years.

Two Soviet-era Su-22 fighter aircraft of the Vietnamese air force crashed into the East Sea during a training mission in April 2015. Both pilots died in the crash.

Two earlier crashes, which involved a Russian Mi-171 and US-built UH-1, killed 24 people.



BoQ77 said:


> We still dont know the real reason for the Casa c212 went down.
> let wait for it



Welcome back.

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## Carlosa

*Pieces found of Vietnam search plane carrying 9 people*




June 17, 2016




The wreckage of a maritime patrol aircraft that went missing is seen on a maritime police vessel off the coast of northern port city of Hai Phong, Vietnam, Friday, June 17, 2016. Vietnamese rescuers have found some pieces belonging to a search plane that went missing with nine people aboard while attempting to locate a pilot from a crashed fighter jet, the military said Friday. (Hong Pha/Vietnam News Agency via AP)
HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — Vietnamese rescuers have found pieces of a search plane that went missing with nine people aboard while attempting to locate a pilot from a crashed fighter jet, the military said Friday.

The pieces including wreckage with the logo of the search plane, a tire, a seat and personal belongings of crew members were discovered 20 nautical miles (23 miles or 37 kilometers) southeast of Bach Long Vi island and 3 nautical miles east of the demarcation line between Vietnam and China in the Gulf of Tonkin, the Ministry of Defense said in a statement.

The plane lost contact with its command center early Thursday afternoon.

Online newspaper VnExpress reported that the body of the missing fighter jet pilot, Lt. Col. Tran Quang Khai, was found Friday afternoon by a fisherman off the coast of the northern province of Thanh Hoa. It said *the body was found wrapped in a parachute*.

One other pilot from the Russian-made Sukhoi Su-30 MK2 jet fighter, which crashed Tuesday on a training flight, was rescued by a fishing boat on Wednesday.

About 1,500 personnel were sent to search for the pilot.

Reports said bad weather may have been responsible for the crash of the search plane. VnExpress quoted Maj. Gen. Nguyen Quang Dam, commander of maritime police, as saying the crew had asked to descend to a lower altitude because of the weather.

Officials were not available for comment Friday.

The crashes were the latest in a string of accidents to hit the military. At least two crashes of military helicopters in the past two years have killed 24 people.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The C-212 went down in bad weather and low visibility.


If there is a thing we can learn from the desaster is we need more and better search aircraft. Small airplane as C212 is not suitable for harsh weather, not to mention flying too slow for a large search area.

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## Carlosa

*It's not clear exactly how bad things could get in the South China Sea*
*http://uk.businessinsider.com/analy...-in-south-china-sea-2016-6?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp
*



U.S. President Barack Obama (L) attends a press conference with Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang at the Presidential Palace Compound in Hanoi, Vietnam May 23, 2016. Reuters/Carlos Barria

The tensions in the South China Sea took a new twist last month when Washington and Hanoi forged closer military ties during US President Barack Obama's three-day visit to Vietnam.

Obama's decision to end a decades-old embargo on arms sales to Vietnam looks set to accelerate an already intense arms race in Southeast Asia and further complicate the situation in the South China Sea, analysts say.

Although Obama insisted the move was not aimed at China and new Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc pledged not to pursue militarization, all signs seem to point to the contrary.

Analysts say the US and Southeast Asian nations appear keen to gain leverage to counter China's assertive diplomatic and military posture ahead of a key international court ruling on China's expansive claims to the disputed waters.

Shanghai-based military expert Ni Lexiong said defence ties between the US and former foe Vietnam were thawing at a sensitive time in the long-standing territorial disputes in the hotly contested waters. The Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague is expected to hand down rulings within weeks on a case brought by the Philippines against China.

"It opens the door to closer military cooperation between the US and Vietnam and will bolster Vietnam's capacity to challenge China in the South China Sea," he said. "The highly symbolic step is part of Washington's strategy to beef up its coalition across the Pacific and Indian Oceans against China."

Professor Huang Jing, a Sino-US relations specialist at the National University of Singapore, said revoking the ban on arms sales was another pivotal move by the US to enlist Vietnam and tilt the balance of power in the region towards Washington.

"All signs show that Vietnam is also playing a diplomatic balancing act between China and the US," he said. "It tries to use its tensions with China to gain support from the US and use its warming ties with the US to gain leverage in its future dealings with China."

Analysts are concerned that maritime disputes have led to the escalation of an arms race in the region, driving China and rival claimants, including Vietnam and the Philippines, to invest heavily in naval and air forces to help defend their competing claims.




An aerial photo taken though a glass window of a Philippine military plane shows the alleged on-going land reclamation by China on mischief reef in the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, west of Palawan, Philippines, May 11, 2015. REUTERS/Ritchie B. Tongo

A recent study by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute revealed a sizeable military build-up in the region over the past few years amid heightened tensions. While the Philippines is weighing up whether to invest in its first submarine fleet, Vietnam has become one of the world's most active arms importers, with imports growing 699 per cent between 2011 and last year, when they accounted for roughly 3 per cent of global arms purchases.

Some analysts say the international tribunal's ruling, widely expected to go against China, is likely to encourage other rival claimants, such as Vietnam, to follow the example of the Philippines and take their overlapping claims to the tribunal.

Daniel Chua, a Southeast Asian diplomacy expert at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore, said other nations looked set to use a similar strategy to counter China's passive aggression in the maritime disputes.

Apparently that's something Beijing also worries about. Xu Hong, director-general of the Foreign Ministry's treaty and law department, warned at a briefing last month that if other nations followed the example of the Philippines, "it could open a Pandora's box of similar abusive lawsuits" and pose a grave danger to international maritime order.

But Huang said Vietnam was unlikely to take its claims to the Permanent Court of Arbitration because it had its own territorial disputes with the Philippines. "The last thing Vietnam wants is the Philippines using the international court to settle their dispute," he said. "And more importantly, if Vietnam brings the case ... its relations with China will reach the point of no return. Neither Beijing nor Hanoi want to burn their bridges."

Some analysts even express concern that the impending tribunal ruling may further exacerbate animosity and tensions between China and its Asian neighbors, despite their close trade ties, and push their standoff towards a final showdown. Even more worryingly, amid signs of growing strategic rivalry, they note that China and the US are obsessed with muscle-flexing while accusing each other of provocations and fanning tensions.

Several analysts also say China's unrestrained use of its military and economic power contradicts its promise of a peaceful rise.

The South China Sea was now a field full of contention and possible clashes, said Professor Kerry Brown, a Chinese studies specialist at King's College in London.

"It is a question of just how far China thinks it can push things without there being escalation," he said. "That depends on how well they read the commitment of the US and how much they understand where the bottom line is. They could easily misjudge that."




U.S. President Barack Obama (R) stands with Chinese President Xi Jinping during an arrival ceremony at the White House in Washington Sept. 25, 2015. Reuters/Kevin Lamarque

While major conflicts are highly unlikely, with both China and the US wary of direct conflict, analysts say the possibility of mishaps and minor accidents, especially scuffles involving fishing ships, cannot be ruled out.

"For example, if the PCA decision finds in favor of the right of Philippine fishermen to fish near Scarborough Shoal and the Philippine government sends navy ships to enforce the ruling, that could provoke a Chinese response and a possible skirmish," said Dr Bonnie Glaser, of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. A small-scale conflict was also possible if China again tried to drill for oil or gas in Vietnam's claimed exclusive economic zone.

Jay Batongbacal, a maritime law expert at the University of the Philippines, said a worst-case scenario between the Philippines and China would include some kind of incident at sea that had the potential to escalate, given China's maritime ambitions and assertive behavior in reclaiming islands and ramping up military patrols.

Chua recalled that China fought Vietnam in the Paracels in the 1970s, and almost came to blows with the Philippines in the Spratlys in the mid-1990s and 2012. "The worst case scenario is really difficult to determine," he said.

But Dai Bingguo, a former Chinese State Councilor, said in a speech in March that he was confident that the so-called "Thucydides Trap", the rivalry between a rising power and the ruling power, was not "an insurmountable, iron-clad law". He said China and the US would be able to guarantee there would be no conflicts between them. "We cannot forge a cold war, let alone forge a hot war," he said.

Zhu Zhiqun, of Bucknell University in Pennsylvania, said the tensions were unlikely to escalate further as neither China nor the US wanted confrontation in the South China Sea.

"I think both the US and China have done enough posturing to satisfy their allies and domestic audiences respectively," he said. "They will both want to lower the temperature [through bilateral and multilateral platforms]."

Huang said tensions were unlikely to go away any time soon and a minor, accidental conflict was still possible, so it remained to be seen if China and the US could set aside their differences and join hands in controlling the situation.

"Crisis management does not necessarily mean averting a crisis," he said. "Rather, it is more about the ability to minimize the risk of escalation in the event of a crisis."


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## Indos

Viet said:


> If there is a thing we can learn from the desaster is we need more and better search aircraft. Small airplane as C212 is not suitable for harsh weather, not to mention flying too slow for a large search area.



Yup, you are right, but the plane should not fly if the weather is too bad, so it might be the violation of operational standard of operation that might happened.

When our plane (Air Asia) went missing in Java waters some time ago, we use our CN 235 MPA, during that time the weather is also not really nice.

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## Thao Nguyen

Indos said:


> Yup, you are right, but the plane should not fly if the weather is too bad, so it might be the violation of operational standard of operation that might happened.
> 
> When our plane (Air Asia) went missing in Java waters some time ago, we use our CN 235 MPA, during that time the weather is also not really nice.


operating in bad weather still be a big problem, even for big plane, bro


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## Indos

Thao Nguyen said:


> operating in bad weather still be a big problem, even for big plane, bro



Yup, I know it, actually our Navy has many C 212, but as far as I know they only use CN 235 MPA in the area where the plane last captured from radar (bad weather). It might tell something though.

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## Viet

Indos said:


> Yup, I know it, actually our Navy has many C 212, but as far as I know they only use CN 235 MPA in the area where the plane last captured from radar (bad weather). It might tell something though.


True. It is a question of having the right tool. We can't hope nor wait for good weather. VN clearly needs long range search aircraft that can withstand harsh weather condition, capable flying through storms. We cannot afford to loose people and aircrafts because too late and incapable air assets.

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## Nike

Vietnam also lacks proper long range and high endurance SAR boats like this
















notes, i am talking about SAR boats not Offshore patrol vessels, as SAR boats had different utility and tools to make them though and capable to salvage and conduct rescue operations

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## Viet

a fleet of Viking DH-6 aircraft are among the search aircraft deployed to look for the doomed Su-30.













...and one of the Viking DC-6 spotted the doomed C-212 airplane (on picture) 30 minutes before it disappeared from the radar screens. when the DC-6 returned, it could not find the C-212, and had to return to the base when fuel running out. that is the problem, we lack of long range all-weather search aircraft.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Meet the girl, who drives the Cadillac One during the State visit of Barack Obama to Vietnam: a 26-year old *Natalie Tyson*. the armored limousine is reportedly said capable to withstand rapid fire of small calibre rifles, RPGs and gas attacks.



She is a member of United States Secret Service Agent.........You can see her Sig226 in one of the picture........



Viet said:


> If there is a thing we can learn from the desaster is we need more and better search aircraft. Small airplane as C212 is not suitable for harsh weather, not to mention flying too slow for a large search area.



You don't need a bigger plane, you need planes that better equip.

C212 is good enough for SAR operation, but you have to expect the mission to be on all-weather mode. Which means you will need specific planes to carry the SAR duty.

Further info to follow



Indos said:


> Yup, you are right, but the plane should not fly if the weather is too bad, so it might be the violation of operational standard of operation that might happened.
> 
> When our plane (Air Asia) went missing in Java waters some time ago, we use our CN 235 MPA, during that time the weather is also not really nice.



In the US Navy, we uses helicopter exclusively to carry out SAR operation, it is not a matter of big airplane, but what did you load up on your aircraft.

We have a specific modified range of Aircraft to serve the SAR role in both US Navy and US Coast Guard, the upgrade included all IFR package, Forward Looking Infrared, ground search radar, proximity radar, and also weather radar. A crew is dedicated and train to perform in all-weather situation, which means that it does not matter how bad the weather is, the SAR operation can continue even when visibility drop to zero.

In fact, many of USCG rescue perform in Bering Seas (Which is one of the toughest area in the world) were carried out by HH-60 Jayhawk.

US Navy MH-60S - SAR






USCG HC-130H






USCG - HH60H






Traditionally, Fixed Wing Aircraft (Such as C-212 or C-130) are only there for support roles aircraft, Not familiar with how Vietnam CG uses their C-212, in the USCG, C-130 is a primarily a search aircraft, which equipped with radar and sensor to pick up the survior's beacon and then further to pinpoint the survivor position by dropping flare as well as advance survival equipment (Raft, Survivor Pack and so on), then they are put on station and radio in either closest Helicopter or Ship to pick up the survivor.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> She is a member of United States Secret Service Agent.........You can see her Sig226 in one of the picture........
> 
> 
> 
> You don't need a bigger plane, you need planes that better equip.
> 
> C212 is good enough for SAR operation, but you have to expect the mission to be on all-weather mode. Which means you will need specific planes to carry the SAR duty.
> 
> Further info to follow
> 
> 
> 
> In the US Navy, we uses helicopter exclusively to carry out SAR operation, it is not a matter of big airplane, but what did you load up on your aircraft.
> 
> We have a specific modified range of Aircraft to serve the SAR role in both US Navy and US Coast Guard, the upgrade included all IFR package, Forward Looking Infrared, ground search radar, proximity radar, and also weather radar. A crew is dedicated and train to perform in all-weather situation, which means that it does not matter how bad the weather is, the SAR operation can continue even when visibility drop to zero.
> 
> In fact, many of USCG rescue perform in Bering Seas (Which is one of the toughest area in the world) were carried out by HH-60 Jayhawk.
> 
> US Navy MH-60S - SAR
> 
> View attachment 311430
> 
> 
> USCG HC-130H
> 
> View attachment 311431
> 
> 
> USCG - HH60H
> 
> View attachment 311429
> 
> 
> Traditionally, Fixed Wing Aircraft (Such as C-212 or C-130) are only there for support roles aircraft, Not familiar with how Vietnam CG uses their C-212, in the USCG, C-130 is a primarily a search aircraft, which equipped with radar and sensor to pick up the survior's beacon and then further to pinpoint the survivor position by dropping flare as well as advance survival equipment (Raft, Survivor Pack and so on), then they are put on station and radio in either closest Helicopter or Ship to pick up the survivor.



Actually, the C-212-400 is the right aircraft for the job since it is a maritime patrol aircraft that has a sophisticated package for the MP role (read below), *it can also operate in all weather conditions and at night. *Need to get a more clear picture about the cause of the accident*, *but still, even an all weather aircraft can go down under the right circumstances. Range is another story, a bigger aircraft would be better for longer range, but still, *On a typical mission, a C-212-400 can fly for up to six and a half hours in all weathers and in darkness at a speed of 180 knots, covering a total linear distance of 1,170 nm and monitoring an area of 117,000 sq nm*.


*Vietnam Marine Police has launched a fleet of Casa-212 aircraft to monitor vessels in coastal areas, detect oil spills and coordinate rescue activities.*

These CASA C212-400 are being used to perform coastal patrol duties. Previously, Vietnam has sent pilots to Seville, Spain to receive pilot training.

The Casa 212-400 aircraft is the latest version of the C212 model manufactured by Airbus. The plane accommodates a crew of three and can be used for long patrol journeys. The aircraft can transport 24 soldiers or a cabin load of 2.7 tons, in addition, it is also equipped with two hard points, can carry guided missiles and unguided rockets, for a total weapons payload of 500 kg.

A Casa 212-400 is 16.1 meters long, 6.5 meters tall, and has a wingspan of 20.2 meters. The plane can fly at a maximum speed of 370 kph, with a range of 1,800 km.

The plane is also equipped with a *MSS-6000 airborne maritime surveillance system* which is made in Sweden.

The core of the MSS-6000 is a mission management system that links all available information together and presents a situation overview to the operator for interpretation and further action. The mission management system is based on GIS (Geographical Information System) technology, and the available information is presented against a backdrop of a digital nautical chart.

*These aircraft in the service to Vietnam will not only enhance the surveillance capabilities of the sea, it will also have a certain airborne early warning capability.*

*The Casa-212 can operate during the day and at night* *and in all weather conditions*. It can take off and land at makeshift airports with short, narrow runways.

Equipped with two propeller turbine engines, the aircraft can fly at very low altitude, making it ideal for patrolling and identifying vessels at sea, spotting oil spills, and conducting rescue missions.

*MSS 6000* *Maritime surveillance system to support oil spill, rescue operations in Vietnamese waters*

Demand is growing for Swedish Space Corp.’s MSS 6000 maritime surveillance system. In addition to several orders already on the company’s books, SSC announced a contract from a customer in Vietnam in July – its first delivery to a Far East customer. Last month it clinched a further sale of two systems to an as yet unnamed customer.

“You can see how demand has grown if I tell you that 60% of all systems we have sold were in the last third of our active period,” says SSC’s Crister Colliander. “Our order-book is now full for this year and 2009, and partly so for 2010 and 2011.”

The Vietnamese contract comes from the Vietnam Marine Police, which has ordered systems for installation on three new CASA C212-400 aircraft – a project that takes three years to complete. The contract has an extensive scope, including installation and testing of the systems in the aircraft, establishment of a ground station and mission command center, and operational and technical training of personnel.

*SSC will supply a fully integrated MSS 6000 system, including SLAR (side-looking airborne radar), still and video cameras, airborne AIS (automatic identification system for ships), an IR/UV (infra-red/ultra-violet) line scanner, an FLIR (forward-looking infra-red) scanner, and communications via high-speed satellite data-link and HF (high frequency) radio.*

The customer will use the equipment for patrolling Vietnamese waters, detecting and responding to oil spills and illegal fishing activities, protecting the economic zone, and participating in search-and-rescue operations.

The MSS 6000 provides an effective means to monitor activities in national waters and to detect unwanted or illegal events, such as oil pollution, whether accidental or deliberate, and unauthorized fishing. The technology can also be applied to monitoring movement of ice, likely to become increasingly important as offshore oil and gas operations spread to arctic regions.

Data from the different sensors is processed, integrated, and presented in one integrated view to the operator. All recordings are annotated with GPS data and digitally stored in an on-board geographical database. Data and digital images are presented integrated with an electronic nautical chart data base and also correlated with the mission report, all at the operator’s finger-tips. All information from the mission is saved and can be compiled in mission reports and sent via the satellite data-link to a command center and/or cooperating units.

*A search radar can be added to the system for general surveillance. The MSS 6000 is designed to interface to a forward looking or 360 degrees search radar for importing target tracks into the tactical map database.*

Since the technology was first launched in the 1970s, its capabilities have continually expanded. “With the MSS 5000, which we launched in the 1990s, we were able to do things we could only dream of in the 1970s,” says Colliander. “The MSS 6000 does things we didn’t even dream of.

“*We can safely say that we give a better performance than military surveillance systems at a fraction of the cost*. We’re now exploring what the advent of broadband communications enables us to do. We’ve put a lot of effort into developing software for the man/machine interface. We have kept the system user-friendly and intuitive: one operator can handle it all.”

*One of the MSS 6000’s capabilities is to read a ship’s name at a distance of 10 nautical miles in the middle of the night.* This makes it an important weapon in combating illegal fishing – cheating occurs frequently with the transponders on fishing vessels, so being able covertly to read ships’ names provides an important means of checking their true identity.

*Arctic reconnaissance*

SSC is currently supplying an order for one MSS 6000 system to Transport Canada, a long-time customer. This, the agency’s third system, will be installed in a Dash-7 plane to be based in the north of the country to provide arctic aerial reconnaissance during the arctic navigation season, switch- ing to the Great Lakes during the winter months. The previous two systems are installed in Dash-8 aircraft operating off the east and west coasts.

*On a typical mission, Transport Canada’s planes fly for up to six and a half hours in all weathers and in darkness at a speed of 180 knots, covering a total linear distance of 1,170 nm and monitoring an area of 117,000 sq nm*. The SLAR is capable of identifying both oil pollution and ice conditions up to 10-15 nm either side of the aircraft, and icebergs and other targets such as larger ships up to 40 nm.

*SLAR*

*The Side Looking Airborne Radar*

*The main sensor of the MSS is the Side-Looking Airborne Radar (SLAR): a mapping radar for surveillance of large sea surfaces.*

The forward motion of the aircraft is utilized by the radar to scan the sea surface perpendicular to the flight track, see figure below.

Whereas a traditional radar typically obtains less than twenty echoes per radar scan from each target, the SLAR obtains up to a thousand. This gives a very high capacity for detecting small targets as well as for showing sea surface properties. Oil floating on the sea surface has a dampening effect on the sea clutter (capillary waves) resulting in less radar return to the aircraft from an oil slick than from the surrounding, undisturbed water surface, and this contrast is clearly visible in the SLAR image.

Objects with higher reflectivity to radar pulses than the sea surface will instead give a more intense radar return, and the resulting image will therefore show not only oil spills but also ships, boats and other small objects against a background picture of the sea surface.

Thus the SLAR is the ideal sensor for large area surveillance for both oils pollution and very small vessels, target types that are difficult at best, and often impossible, to detect with traditional radar technology.

The SLAR is a day and night sensor. It can be operated under all weather conditions.

MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy in positioning the SLAR image and will present the image either superimposed on a backdrop digital chart or display it as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".

*IR/UV SCANNER*

*The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of ship wakes, accident sites etc. It is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .*

The Infrared/Ultraviolet (IR/UV) Line Scanner is used to obtain high resolution imagery of accident sites etc. It is capable of observing minute temperature differences on the water surface and is ideal for mapping oil spills and other types of pollution, as well as other types of hydrological phenomena such as upwelling warmer/colder water .

The IR/UV scanner, operating in the 8.5-12.5µm region (IR) and in the 0.32-0.38 µm region (UV), provides high resolution imagery of oil spills and other features on the surface. IR data can be obtained both day and night providing information on the spreading of oil and also indicating the relative oil thickness within the oil slick. Usually 80% of the oil is concentrated within less than 20% of the visual oil slick. By using the IR information, the efficiency of clean-up operations can be greatly improved.

UV data is obtained during daylight conditions, and is primarily used to map the entire extent of an oil slick, irrespective of thickness. The UV data adds confidence to the IR registration by distinguishing between natural thermal phenomena, such as cold upwelling water, from suspected oil pollution. It also assists an on-scene commander in determining the location of the thicker parts an oil spill, thus adding to the efficiency of the clean-up operation.

The MSS 6000 will infterface to any IR/UV line scanner on the market. The picture shows the Argon ST (formerly Daedalus) 1221 IR/UV scanner.

MSS 6000 provides for GPS accuracy and the capability to either superimpose the IR and UV images on a backdrop digital chart or to display the images as a traditional "scrolling waterfall".

The information from the aircraft can be used as input to oil drift modelling, thus further enhancing the aircraft as an asset in your oil spill contingency planning.

*SSC CAMERA AND VIDEO CAMERA*

*The MSS 6000 still and video cameras provide digital imagery and video documentation. Each frame is annotated with relevant mission information for future, tamper-free reference. The built-in DGPS system provides accurate and consistent annotation of all MSS 6000 observations.*

The MSS 6000 assists the operator in keeping track of all exposures made with the still camera and video sequence registered with the video camera by logging the time and position of each exposure and displaying this information in a selectable digital map overlay. Imagery and other information are linked to the geographical position and to the operator's comment, thus creating a comprehensive folder of data to document an observed activity on the sea surface.

Video recordings can be made from the FLIR(Forward Looking Infrared) as well as from the handheld video camera to allow close-up documentation of activities on the sea surface. The video is stored digitally and can be reviewed either in the aircraft or on the ground. Video sequences or selected frames can also be transmitted over the data link.

*AIS - AUTOMATIC IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM*

*A (normally silent) airborne AIS transponder is integrated with the MSS 6000 system.*

The AIS receives identity information from all transponder equipped ships with VHF distance in the patrol area. Live AIS information is displayed on the MSS 6000 map display and logged in the built-in target database. The possibility for the operator to immediatly compare AIS information with target information acquired from other sensors, will greatly facilitate the control of all sea surface activities within the patrol area.

*FLIR /EO-SENSOR*

*Forward Looking Infrared-/Electro-Optical Sensor*

*A FLIR is an indispensable supplementary sensor for most mission profiles. It will add day and night identification and documentation capability to complement the information gathered from other on-board or external sources.*

The FLIR is integrated into the surveillance system. Imagery from the FLIR is annotated and stored together with the all other mission data. The FLIR can also be slaved to any target position or geographical reference in the MSS 6000 database as selected by the operator, thus facilitating the sorting and identification of targets detected by other means.
Most FLIRs in the market can be integrated to the MSS 6000 system. The pictures show the Wescam MX-16 gyro estabilised sensor,the FLIR systems, the EuroFLIR 350 and the Star Q sensor.

*MWR - THE MICROWAVE RADIOMETER*

*If oil pollution control is one of your main missions, the Microwave Radiometer may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*

The SLAR will map the area of the oil slick. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner.Examples of Infrared and Microwave Radiometer registrations
of an oil spill.

*LFS - LASER FLOUROSENSOR*

*If pollution control is one of your main missions, the Laser Fluorosensor System may provide valuable information to assist in the combating effort.*

The SLAR will detect and map the extent of an oil spill on the sea surface. Once the slick is detected, the extension and distribution of the oil within the slick is assessed with the IR/UV scanner. The Microwave Radiometer will measure the thickness and thusgive a better estimate of the volume of the spill.The Laser Fluorosensor can be said to take a "finger print" of some of the properties of the surface beneath the aircraft

A deeper analysis of the oil pollution is achieved from the Laser Fluorosensor. Its sensitivity to very thin oil films on the water surface, makes this sensor an interesting addition to the sensor package. Apart from the pollution related applications this instrument can also be used for hydrographical measurements and for algae monitoring.

The LFS-light can assist the operator in distinguishing between oil and other substances and to analyze the optical signature of different oil types which has been assembled from a catalogue of the optical properties of different oils from laboratory investigations.

On request a laser fluorosensor can be integrated into the MSS 6000 system.

*ATCOM - SATELLITE COMMUNICATION*

*For real-time in-flight data communication a SATCOM system is integrated with the MSS. With a high-speed SATCOM link the mission report with images and tactical map snapshots captured during the mission can be delivered while in the air or by e-mail or mobile phone after landing. With a low-speed SATCOM link only short messages with information of position and properties of observed activities on the sea surface will be delivered while in the air and mission report and pictures will follow by e-mail or mobile phone data transferred after landing. The recorded mission can also be replayed after landing in the aircraft or on a ground station.*

High-speed satellite communications is integrated in the MSS 6000 system for real-time information to other units in the surveillance operation.

*VMS - VESSEL MONITORING SYSTEM*

*The integrated Vessel Monitoring System (VMS) functionality provides a possibility to upload information on fishing vessels from the national fisheries authority to be accessed together with other mission data.*

*DF - DIRECTION FINDER*

*The Direction Finder (DF) functionality provides direction information on radio transmitters, including the 406 MHz emergency frequency and decoding of COSPAS/SARSAT data.*

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## Viet

inside a C-212 search aircraft














the doomed C-212 aircraft was flying extremly low altitude when searching the sea. the pilot asked the tower to descend because of bad weather, then the plane was disappearing from the radars. a lighting might have struck the aircraft.










how all is began: an unknown explosion in the cockpit of the doomed Su-30 which was on a routine patrol near the Gulf of Tonkin causing both pilots to eject from the aircraft. only one pilot survived, the second pilot was found dead, apparently because of injury caused by the explosion.


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## Indos

Viet said:


> inside a C-212 search aircraft
> 
> 
> the doomed C-212 aircraft was flying extremly low altitude when searching the sea. the pilot asked the tower to descend because of bad weather, then the plane was disappearing from the radars. a lighting might have struck the aircraft.



I dont think lightning can down this plane (C 212), but there is wind wave just above any sea that has some down force and up force energy. If the plane fly to low ( like this picture ), it might come to that wind wave that at some point can possibly make the plane down (my theory). Just my speculation though.

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## Viet

one interesting news: Russia’s biggest truck producer KAMAZ plans to increase its export to Vietnam from 700 trucks in 2015 to 1,000 units this year. KAMAZ not only can carry Pansir-S1 gun-missile system, but suitable to other artillery guns as 105 or 152 mm as well.

http://english.vov.vn/trade/russias-kamaz-wants-to-boost-truck-export-to-vietnam-322936.vov


















----



*India’s strategic gambit in Vietnam*
New Delhi’s abiding interest in Vietnam is focused on defence and is meant as a pressure point against China









India under the Narendra Modi government has made no secret of its desire to play a more assertive role in the larger Indo-Pacific. As Modi himself underlined in his address to the joint session of the US Congress last week: “A strong India-US partnership can anchor peace, prosperity and stability from Asia to Africa and from Indian Ocean to the Pacific. It can also help ensure security of the sea lanes of commerce and freedom of navigation on seas.” Therefore, it should not be surprising that India seems now ready to sell the supersonic BrahMos missile, made by an India-Russian joint venture, to Vietnam after dilly-dallying on Hanoi’s request for this sale since 2011. Though India’s ties with Vietnam have been growing in the past few years, this sale was seen as a step too far that would antagonize China.

But now, the Modi government has directed BrahMos Aerospace, which produces the missiles, to expedite this sale to Vietnam along with four other countries—Indonesia, South Africa, Chile and Brazil. India is already providing a concessional line of credit of $100 million for the procurement of defence equipment and in a first of its kind has sold four offshore patrol vessels to Vietnam, which are likely to be used to strengthen the nation’s defences in the energy-rich South China Sea. India’s latest move comes at a time when the US has also lifted its longstanding ban on sales of lethal military equipment to Vietnam. New Delhi’s abiding interest in Vietnam too remains in the defence realm. It wants to build relations with states like Vietnam that can act as pressure points against China. With this in mind, it has been helping Hanoi beef up its naval and air capabilities.

The two nations also have stakes in ensuring sea-lane security, as well as shared concerns about Chinese access to the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea. Hence, India is helping Vietnam build capacity for repair and maintenance of its defence platforms. At the same time, the armed forces of the two states have started cooperation in areas like IT and English-language training of Vietnamese army personnel. The two countries potentially share a common friend—the US. New Delhi has steadily built relations with Washington in the past decade, while Vietnam has been courting America as the South China Sea becomes a flashpoint. As these three countries ponder how to manage China’s rise, they have been drawn closer together.

It is instructive that India entered the fraught region of the South China Sea via Vietnam. India signed an agreement with Vietnam in October 2011 to expand and promote oil exploration in the South China Sea and then reconfirmed its decision to carry on despite the Chinese challenge to the legality of the Indian presence. Beijing told New Delhi that its permission was needed for India’s state-owned oil and gas firm to explore for energy in the two Vietnamese blocks in those waters. But Vietnam quickly cited the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea to claim its sovereign rights over the two blocks in question. Hanoi has been publicly sparring with Beijing over the South China Sea for the past few years, so such a response was expected.

What was new, however, was New Delhi’s new-found aggression in taking on China. It immediately decided to support Hanoi’s claims. By accepting the Vietnamese invitation to explore oil and gas in blocks 127 and 128, India’s state-owned oil company ONGC Videsh Ltd not only expressed New Delhi’s desire to deepen its friendship with Vietnam, but ignored China’s warning to stay away. This display of backbone helped India strengthen its relationship with Vietnam. If China wants to expand its presence in South Asia and the Indian Ocean region, New Delhi’s thinking goes, India can do the same thing in East Asia. And if China can have a strategic partnership with Pakistan ignoring Indian concerns, India can develop robust ties with states like Vietnam on China’s periphery without giving China a veto on such relationships.

Hanoi is gradually becoming the linchpin of this eastward move by New Delhi. Hanoi fought a brief war with Beijing in 1979 and has grown wary of the Middle Kingdom’s increasing economic and military weight. That’s why in some quarters of New Delhi, Vietnam is already seen as a counterweight in the same way Pakistan has been for China.

The Modi government’s decision to sell BrahMos missiles to Vietnam underscores the evolution in India’s policy towards the Indo-Pacific. New Delhi seems to be ready to challenge Beijing on its own turf. And for the moment at least, this stance is being welcomed by states like Vietnam, which fear the growing aggression of China. A more engaged India will also lead to a more stable balance of power in the region.

http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/K4RMcKDJDYtplAwoJcPY9O/Indias-strategic-gambit-in-Vietnam.html

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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> What is more interesting is the transmission of the beast. I'm very curious to know.


Have you ever tried to model your boring looking BMW car into a different thing in order to impress your newfound girl friend? 

it is a supersized Cadillac with a monster Diesel engine and transmission of a commercial truck.



*

*
NewsCarsThe Beast: 10 Things to Know About the President's Limo






By Andrew Ganz



When President Barack Obama's motorcade pilots its way through our nation's capital today as part of his second inauguration, the world will get one of its best looks at the Cadillaclimousine nicknamed "The Beast."


But President Obama's Cadillac isn't really a Cadillac. In fact, about all it shares with the crested wreath sedans you can buy from your local dealership are some styling cues. Still, The Beast is definitely a sight to behold - and there are few times it is better showcased than during an inaugural.

Not much is actually known about The Beast since it falls under the Secret Service's classified motor pool, but a few specifications and secrets have leaked out over the last few years. We pieced through what we could to provide you with this breakdown of 10 things worth knowing about Cadillac One, Limo One or... The Beast.



*10 Things to Know About the President's Limo
*

*1. It isn't a Cadillac. *Unlike any presidential state car before it, The Beast shares little in common with a standard production car. Its chassis, diesel engine and transmission are based on those used in the ChevroletKodiak, a rugged commercial vehicle used as everything from a dump truck to a U-Haul truck.

Some standard trim pieces, like headlamps from an Escalade and tail lights from the now-discontinued STS keep it looking vaguely Cadillac-like.

*2. It has its own airplane.* The Secret Service makes use of a C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft to haul The Beast, a second limo and a heavily armored Chevrolet Suburban communications vehicle, any time the President is traveling. The Suburban is nicknamed Roadrunner and it is said to be a rolling communications office directly linked to a military satellite - hence the SATCOM dome festooned to its roof

*3. Calling it armored is an understatement.* There is probably not a better-armored vehicle with windows on the planet than The Beast. Its armor plating is said to be 8 inches thick and its doors weigh as much as those on a Boeing 757 aircraft. Five-inch thick bulletproof windows contain at least five layers to put a damper on any effort by subversives. And those gigantic, nearly bus-size Goodyear tires are Kevlar-reinforced run-flats capable of keeping The Beast on the road for quite some distance if needed. The interior is sealed off from the outside world to reduce risks of a chemical attack, while a special foam surrounds the fuel tank to insulate it in the event of an impact.

*4. It's exceedingly well-equipped. *Pop open The Beast's trunk and it is said that you'll find everything from firefighting equipment and oxygen tanks to a cache of the president's blood type. There are tear gas canisters, shotguns and, supposedly, grenade launchers, integrated into The Beast. The Secret Service has learned a lot since President John F. Kennedy's open-top Lincoln Continental was fired upon on Elm Street in Dallas.

*5. It holds seven passengers.* At the very least, The Beast has three passengers aboard - the driver, the president's lead Secret Service protective agent in the front passenger seat and, of course, the president himself. However, four additional seats in the back are available - three rearward facing spots on a bench and one spot next to the president for a guest. A folding desk separates the president from his guest's spot.

Somewhat surprisingly, the president's bench is covered in a dark blue cloth rather than leather (although plenty of hide is on board). Shoulder belts that retract toward the center of the bench and buckle into the outboard corners - the reverse of a normal rear seat - are included.

*6. The Beast is not alone.* The Secret Service actually has a few Beast-like vehicles. Although it's not known whether they're all functionally identical, some look more like a Cadillac DTS than The Beast. The other limousines are used for high-ranking foreign officials and VIP guests when they're in Washington, D.C. It isn't known why the Secret Service rotates between presidential vehicles, however.

In addition, the President sometimes travels in a heavily-armored Chevrolet Suburban or a modified Prevost bus known as Ground Force One rather than The Beast.

*7. It runs on diesel. *The Beast is believed to use a Duramax diesel engine closely related to that featured under the hood of Chevrolet and GMC's full-size heavy duty pickup trucks. Why diesel? Aside from the durability associated with diesel engines, the fuel has a low volatility that reduces the risk of it exploding - and it can be found everywhere in the world, unlike high quality unleaded fuel.

*8. Its pilot is a heck of a driver. *Even though The Beast has more in common with a school bus than a sports car, its highly-trained drivers can execute tight J-turns and other police-style evasion techniques in the event of a situation gone south. The Secret Service drivers have undergone extensive training on a secluded site (believed to be a military base) with input from GM engineers and test drivers.

*9. Its specs will not impress you. *Burdened with lugging a rumored 20,000 lbs. worth of Beast around, the diesel engine isn't a rocket. Hitting 60 mph from a complete stop takes about 15 seconds, which is more than just about any new car we can think of, and the big car's top speed is said to max out at 60 mph. In addition, all that weight makes it a guzzler, sipping fuel at a rate of 8 mpg.

*10. This year, it will make a political statement*. In a politically-motivated move, President Obama chose to have D.C.'s available Taxation Without Representation license plates installed on The Beast. The White House says that the decision "demonstrates the president's commitment to the principle of full representation for the people of the District of Columbia and his willingness to fight for voting rights, home rule and budget autonomy for the District."

However, it's unlikely that D.C. will gain representation in Congress as long as Republicans are in control.

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## cnleio

The missed Vietnam Su-30mk2 pilot found on sea

越南空军失踪的苏30战斗机上一名飞行员的遗体17日在中部义安省附近海域被找到，遗体上当时还覆盖着降落伞。这架苏30战斗机是14日上午在执行训练任务时在越南中部义安省附近海域失踪的，机上共有2名飞行员，其中一名飞行员被当地渔民救起。另一名飞行员陈光凯的遗体是在义安省附近的眼睛岛周边海域被渔民发现的，遗体上覆盖着降落伞。越南连日来曾派出多种力量前往战斗机失踪海域搜寻，16日一架执行搜救任务的CASA型巡逻机失踪，机上载有9人。17日上午，巡逻机残骸被找到，但机上的9人仍处于失踪状态。应越方要求，中国海上搜救中心于16日晚派出“南海救101”号救助船、“海巡21号”船前往北部湾海域，协助搜救失事的越南两架越南飞机。17日，中国海警局派出三艘海警船，中国海军派出四艘舰艇亦赶赴上述海域开展搜救。

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## Viet

a previous picture of the doomed C-212 aircraft with Mss-6000 airborne maritime surveillance system. the US embassador to Vietnam says America stands by for search and rescue operations. but according to the Coast Guard, there is little hope anyone had survived the crash.








such Mss-6000 system is onboard.

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## anas_nurhafidz

Our MI-17 Heli in Vietnam 

#Service #maintain

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## Viet

@anas_nurhafidz 
who is that girl? 



*Vietnam said to be interested in getting CN-295 aircraft*

Indonesia’s Vice President Jusuf Kalla disclosed that Vietnam is interested in getting the CN-295 transport – a C-295 license-built by Indonesian Aerospace. Kalla said the sales proposal was discussed with Vietnam’s deputy Prime Minister Trinh Dinh Dung in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

http://www.antaranews.com/berita/564929/vietnam-minat-beli-cn-295







-------


*Vietnamese Air Force could be the first customer of the C295 AEW&C aircraft*

Vietnam would buy two Airbus C295 AEW&C aircraft, according to Vietnamese Media sources. The procurement comes as a result of the country’s effort to control East China Sea areas, where confrontation with the Chinese military has become a common phenomenon.

http://www.airrecognition.com/index...irst-customer-of-the-c295-aew-c-aircraft.html





The C295 AEW&C will allow Vietnam to better control its sea borders in a period of heightened tensions with China
(Credit: Airbus Defence & Space)

Moreover, the new platforms will improve coordination capabilities with many modern weapon systems acquired during the last years.

According to the same sources, Airbus and ELTA could assist the country in integrating the new platform with the rest of the Vietnamese Armed Forces, including Russian-made ones. The number of the platforms to be acquired could probably be more than two, as the two could probably be not sufficient for the operational requirements.

The primary sensor of the AEW&C will be the IAI/ELTA 4th Generation Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar with integrated IFF. This follows an agreement signed by Airbus Defence and Space and IAI/ELTA in June 2011 at the Le Bourget Airshow.The C295 AEW&C has been designed to provide high quality 360º surveillance, creating in real-time an integrated Air and Maritime Situation Picture and Electronic Order of Battle. The AEW&C Situation Picture is shared with friendly forces via Network Centric data links.A C295 fitted with a rotodome demonstrator is conducting flight trials from Airbus Defence and Space's Seville facility since 8th June 2011.

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## Carlosa

@William Hung As per the article above:

According to the same sources, *Airbus and ELTA could assist the country in integrating the new platform with the rest of the Vietnamese Armed Forces, including Russian-made ones*. The number of the platforms to be acquired could probably be more than two, as the two could probably be not sufficient for the operational requirements.


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## cochine

Our hero, colonel Trần Quang Khải , trainer of jetplane Su 30MK . He has sacrificed his life for homeland, for our country is existed forver.






















His daughtor





and his wife.





His camrades.

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## cochine

when he was ...

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## GS Zhou

A post from the Ministry of National Defense of China: China deploys 8 ships and 3 planes to help Vietnam find the missing jets. What China puts for the rescue efforts are:
- four ships from the Navy
- three coast guard ships
- one salvage tug
- one fixed wing plane and one chopper from the Navy
- one fixed wing plane from the Air Force

Hope the missing crews could be found soon.

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## Viet

Dirty money. Dirty history. South Korean economic rise was largely thanked to the money she received from the United States because of her participation of the Vietnam war. the longer the war the more South Korea received the US Dollars. she was the one who promoted aggression. do we need an apology? the Koreans are similar to the Japanese, they rather commit suicide than regret anything. different country different culture. Anyway I don´t think we need a sorry, not only because it is up to them if they want to apologize, but it does not bring the deaths to life. if they want they can increase trades and investments to Vietnam.



*When Will President Park Apologize to The Vietnamese People?*
By Sara Williams June 9, 2016

South Korea was the second only to the United States as the largest foreign military contingent in Vietnam during the 1960’s war.






(Newswire.net -- June 9, 2016) -- The first step to apologizing is to admit to one’s actions and take responsibility for them. President Park has still to do so for her country’s past actions in foreign wars.


Retracing history, South Korea led by strongman President Park Chung-hee, the sitting president’s father, sent over 320,000 soldiers to fight in the Vietnam War. They came from the ROK Army and ROK Marine Corps. The first troops arrived in 1964 and for nine years until 1973, they inflicted all sorts of brutality on the Vietnamese. Among the US allies, South Korea was the largest military contingent in Vietnam, second only to the United States Forces. The official line for helping the US was to repay them for defending South Korea in the Korean War and to solidify military alliance between the two countries.

Now it can be told that financial incentives were also a key consideration for Park to send his troops to Vietnam. It is said he even campaigned hard for the war to continue. The Johnson and Nixon administration gave over tens of billions of dollars for the soldiers but all the money was coursed through Park. Most of it was used to realize the dictator’s ambitious economic development program. Hence, from being one of the poorest countries in the 1950s, the Republic of Korea experienced rapid growth in its economy starting in the 1960s.

When the South Korean military were in Vietnam, they were given carte blanche to do as they wished. The only goal was to vanquish the enemy. And they did so, in the most inhumane of methods. The “enemy” for them was anyone Vietnam. Unarmed men, helpless women and children, and the elderly were not spared. Their stories were only revealed forty years after the war ended, when a Korean graduate student studying in a university in Hanoi became curious about the accounts she heard and started digging them up. The untold tales of massacres of entire villages were finally revealed in her articles that saw publication in a weekly newsmagazine.

Shocked and disgusted that her fellow countrymen were capable of such despicable acts, she got help in putting up the Korean-Vietnamese Peace Foundation with the aim of fostering healing of the Vietnam people survivors of war and establishing a peaceful coexistence among other people.

The stories of the Vietnam comfort women came later. It seems the Korean soldiers were not content with killing the weak and defenseless. They assaulted and raped thousands of the women, then left them with their children. Born of mixed blood, the children are called Lai Dai Han and live in the margins of society, scorned and ridiculed.

Statesmen and civic groups are asking for an apology for the Vietnam victims. But Park Geun-hye chooses to be silent, not admitting to the crimes perpetrated during her father’s regime. In the domestic arena, he was already ruthless on his opponents. In the Vietnam War, he condoned the acts of his soldiers because it is not possible for him to be unaware of what was going on. His daughter, an ultra-conservative, is bent on protecting the country’s integrity and her own father’s name.

In Vietnam on a state visit in 2013, Park laid flowers on the mausoleum of Ho Chi Minh, the North Vietnam president and chairman of the Communist Party. But nary a word was said about the war. In 2001, when President Kim Dae-jung apologized to Vietnam for the acts of his people, Park criticized him for bringing shame to South Korea.

Behind the scenes, she is pushing for the government to take charge of the production of history books for schools. There are fears that it will be revised to put Park Chung-hee in a better light. In her autobiography, she wrote “The slander against my father continued, and I couldn’t just stand by and watch. As I saw it, my father had no personal ambition other than for his country, the Republic of Korea.”

The latest insensitivity shown by Ms. Park is her praise of the Korean TV series “Descendants of the Sun,” set in a war-torn country where a Korean officer falls in love with a doctor with a peacekeeping mission. There have been debates over whether it will bother Vietnam people because it will bring back memories of the war. But Park is encouraging its showing in other countries to promote tourism.

Pres. Park always puts her own interests first. In 1960, her father received $800 million from Japan in the form of soft loans, grants and trusts. Last December, she was able to obtain another apology from Japan for the Korean comfort women and an $8.3 million payment for the victims. But she is her father’s daughter and it will be surprising if she acknowledges the sins of her country and apologize to the Vietnam people. Still, stranger things have happened.

Source: http://newswire.net/newsroom/oped/00092876-when-will-president-park-apologize-to-the-vietnamese-people.html

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## Barmaley

KZKT-7428 truck tractors arrived in Vietnam. So probably the rumours about T-90 is real after all.

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> KZKT-7428 truck tractors arrived in Vietnam. So probably the rumours about T-90 is real after all.


Interesting. After years of rumours. Do you know how many trucks? Is it Haiphong sea port?


just looking up the specs of Kzkt-7428. it can carry a load of 70 tons, range of 700 km, top Speed 65 kmh. good enough for a T-90 or a howitzer. our panzer corps need a lot of these transporters, just inducting one or two panzer divisions.

@Carlosa

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> Interesting. After years of rumours. Do you know how many trucks? Is it Haiphong sea port?



No additional information . Maybe later.


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## Carlosa

*The US just turned up the heat in the South China Sea with 2 aircraft carriers and B-52s*


David Cenciotti, The Aviationist


Some interesting photographs have been arriving from the troubled waters of Indo-Asia-Pacific region.

The most recent ones, released on Jun. 18, show the USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) and USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) carrier strike groups (CSG 3 and CSG 5) cruising close each other during dual carrier flight operations in the Philippine Sea.

Such operations included air combat training, long-range strike training, air defense drills as well as sea surveillance.

The CSG 3, that started operations in the Western Pacific on Feb. 4, consists of the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74), guided-missile cruiser USS Mobile Bay (CG 53) and guided-missile destroyers of Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 21, USS Stockdale (DDG 106), USS Chung-Hoon (DDG 93) and USS William P. Lawrence (DDG 110), and the aircraft of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 9.

CSG 5, begun its summer patrol of the Indo-Asia Pacific, on Jun. 4, and consists of the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76), guided-missile cruisers USS Shiloh (CG 67) and USS Chancellorsville (CG 62) and guided-missile destroyers from Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 15, USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG 54), USS McCampbell (DDG 85), USS Benfold (DDG 65); the aircraft of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, is forward-deployed to Yokosuka, Japan and routinely, patrols the Western Pacific.

According to the US Navy, the CSGs (Carrier Strike Groups) began coordinated operations in international waters to demonstrate "the United States unique capability to operate multiple carrier strike groups in close proximity."

US Navy aircraft carriers regularly conduct dual carrier strike group operations in the Western Pacific and sometimes also in the South China Sea, East China Sea and Philippine Sea: this occurs when carriers deployed to the 7th Fleet area of operations from the US West Coast are joined with the forward deployed carrier strike group from Japan. When it happens a force of 12,000 sailors, 140 aircraft, six combatants and two carriers operates in the same sea: an impressive "show of force."






Two carriers cruise in the South China Sea. The Aviationist via US Navy

Previously, in Sept. 2012, USS George Washington (CVN 73) and USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) strike groups conducted combined operation in the South China Sea and East China Sea. In 2001, USS Constellation (CV 64) and Carl Vinson operated together in the South China Sea.

A few days before the two carriers started combined operations, a joint service bombing exercise at the targeting island Farallon de Medinilla, an uninhabited small island in the Northern Mariana Islands in the Pacific Ocean located 45 nautical miles north of Saipan, saw two US Air Force B-52 Stratofortress bombers launched from Andersen Air Force Base, Guam,fly over USS Spruance (DDG 111) in a maritime attack training sortie.

Along with the two carrier strike groups and the B-52 providing extended deterrence, Washington has also deployed to the Philippines the first temporary detachment of Navy EA-18G Growlers.

The electronic attack aircraft have arrived at Clark Air Base, on Jun. 15. Even though they are officially there to train with the local FA-50, the detachment, made of 4 aircraft and 120 personnel with the Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 138, "will support routine operations that enhance regional maritime domain awareness and assure access to the air and maritime domains in accordance with international law."

Therefore, the strategical deployment brought not far from the disputed waters in the South China Sea some cutting-edge aircraft capable to perform electronic escort missions on both US ships and spyplanes that are frequently shadowed by Chinese spyplanes or intelligence gathering ships. Furthermore, the Growlers could jam, if needed, the Chinese radars on the Spratly, Paracel, Pratas and the rest of the islands, including those that have been artificially created, decreasing Beijing ability to establish an ADIZ (Air Defense Identification Zone)similar to that in the East China Sea and to support its warplanes in the area.





The Aviationist via US Navy

The presence of (some more…) EA-18Gs could theoretically limit the operations of the Chinese Air Force (PLAAF) and Navy (PLANAF) that, according to "Flashpoint China: Chinese air power and regional security" published by Harpia Publishing and written by Andreas Rupprecht, one of the most authoritative sources on Chinese Air Power, "are able to ensure virtually continuos, round-the-clock aerial coverage and combat air patrols over the area during a crisis or a conflict."

In particular, the PLANAF is pretty active in the area with a regiment each of H-6 bombers and JH-7 fighter-bombers and no fewer than three regiments of J-11 interceptors covering the South China Sea . "The availability of long-range J-11s and aerial refueling assets implies that much of the SCS [South China Sea] is now de-facto Chinese airspace," says Rupprecht.

It's not a coincidence that a recent close encounter in the area involved few weeks ago two Chinese J-11 tactical aircraft that carried out an "unsafe" intercept of a US EP-3E reconnaissance aircraft on a routine mission in international airspace over the South China Sea.

The Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) 138 is an expeditionary squadron based at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Washington, that has previously taken part in deployments across the region. The Growler detachment comes after a first temporary Air Contingent made of five A-10C Thunderbolt aircraft, three HH-60G Pave Hawk helicopters and approximately 200 personnel deployed from multiple Pacific Air Forces units that took part in exercise Balikatan and completed their final mission on April 28, 2016.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Interesting. After years of rumours. Do you know how many trucks? Is it Haiphong sea port?
> 
> 
> just looking up the specs of Kzkt-7428. it can carry a load of 70 tons, range of 700 km, top Speed 65 kmh. good enough for a T-90 or a howitzer. our panzer corps need a lot of these transporters, just inducting one or two panzer divisions.
> 
> @Carlosa



There is a T-90MS smell in the air............

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> just inducting one or two panzer divisions


Do you know how costly your idea could be? 

T90 MBT is about 4.5 million USD per unit. Assume a tank division has 250 MBTs and all of them replaced by T90 MBT, that means 1.1 billion USD in total (other supporting vehicles are not counted in yet). 

According to SIPRI, Vietnam spent 870 million USD on weapons imports in 2015. Assume ground forces could get 25% of the budget (compared to Navy and Air forces, the priority of ground forces must be much lower), so ground force owns 220 million USD budget. Assume MBTs upgrade is the most important project to army, and 50% of the army budget goes to this program. So 110 million USD saved a year, which means the VPA army needs *ten years* to have the money for one division tanks. Considering the investment on other supporting vehicles, the time required would be even longer.

In fact, modern MBT is even a big burden to PLA. That's why Type 59 MBTs are still seen today.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Do you know how costly your idea could be?
> 
> T90 MBT is about 4.5 million USD per unit. Assume a tank division has 250 MBTs and all of them replaced by T90 MBT, that means 1.1 billion USD in total (other supporting vehicles are not counted in yet).
> 
> According to SIPRI, Vietnam spent 870 million USD on weapons imports in 2015. Assume ground forces could get 25% of the budget (compared to Navy and Air forces, the priority of ground forces must be much lower), so ground force owns 220 million USD budget. Assume MBTs upgrade is the most important project to army, and 50% of the army budget goes to this program. So 110 million USD saved a year, which means the VPA army needs *ten years* to have the money for one division tanks. Considering the investment on other supporting vehicles, the time required would be even longer.
> 
> In fact, modern MBT is even a big burden to PLA. That's why Type 59 MBTs are still seen today.


you overlook one thing: besides getting money from the official budget, the army earns money from companies they control and own, for example Viettel. the company makes $2 billions gross profit out of a revenue of $11 billion in 2015. so one tank here one tank there can be bought. sure, nevertheless we only have $5 billions for defence, nothing if compared to your $215 billions a year


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## BoQ77

Vietnam gave the nuclear energy plant project to Russia, and get the return of military assets alongside with plant too.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> Dirty money. Dirty history. South Korean economic rise was largely thanked to the money she received from the United States because of her participation of the Vietnam war. the longer the war the more South Korea received the US Dollars. she was the one who promoted aggression. do we need an apology? the Koreans are similar to the Japanese, they rather commit suicide than regret anything. different country different culture. Anyway I don´t think we need a sorry, not only because it is up to them if they want to apologize, but it does not bring the deaths to life. if they want they can increase trades and investments to Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> *When Will President Park Apologize to The Vietnamese People?*
> By Sara Williams June 9, 2016
> 
> South Korea was the second only to the United States as the largest foreign military contingent in Vietnam during the 1960’s war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Newswire.net -- June 9, 2016) -- The first step to apologizing is to admit to one’s actions and take responsibility for them. President Park has still to do so for her country’s past actions in foreign wars.
> 
> 
> Retracing history, South Korea led by strongman President Park Chung-hee, the sitting president’s father, sent over 320,000 soldiers to fight in the Vietnam War. They came from the ROK Army and ROK Marine Corps. The first troops arrived in 1964 and for nine years until 1973, they inflicted all sorts of brutality on the Vietnamese. Among the US allies, South Korea was the largest military contingent in Vietnam, second only to the United States Forces. The official line for helping the US was to repay them for defending South Korea in the Korean War and to solidify military alliance between the two countries.
> 
> Now it can be told that financial incentives were also a key consideration for Park to send his troops to Vietnam. It is said he even campaigned hard for the war to continue. The Johnson and Nixon administration gave over tens of billions of dollars for the soldiers but all the money was coursed through Park. Most of it was used to realize the dictator’s ambitious economic development program. Hence, from being one of the poorest countries in the 1950s, the Republic of Korea experienced rapid growth in its economy starting in the 1960s.
> 
> When the South Korean military were in Vietnam, they were given carte blanche to do as they wished. The only goal was to vanquish the enemy. And they did so, in the most inhumane of methods. The “enemy” for them was anyone Vietnam. Unarmed men, helpless women and children, and the elderly were not spared. Their stories were only revealed forty years after the war ended, when a Korean graduate student studying in a university in Hanoi became curious about the accounts she heard and started digging them up. The untold tales of massacres of entire villages were finally revealed in her articles that saw publication in a weekly newsmagazine.
> 
> Shocked and disgusted that her fellow countrymen were capable of such despicable acts, she got help in putting up the Korean-Vietnamese Peace Foundation with the aim of fostering healing of the Vietnam people survivors of war and establishing a peaceful coexistence among other people.
> 
> The stories of the Vietnam comfort women came later. It seems the Korean soldiers were not content with killing the weak and defenseless. They assaulted and raped thousands of the women, then left them with their children. Born of mixed blood, the children are called Lai Dai Han and live in the margins of society, scorned and ridiculed.
> 
> Statesmen and civic groups are asking for an apology for the Vietnam victims. But Park Geun-hye chooses to be silent, not admitting to the crimes perpetrated during her father’s regime. In the domestic arena, he was already ruthless on his opponents. In the Vietnam War, he condoned the acts of his soldiers because it is not possible for him to be unaware of what was going on. His daughter, an ultra-conservative, is bent on protecting the country’s integrity and her own father’s name.
> 
> In Vietnam on a state visit in 2013, Park laid flowers on the mausoleum of Ho Chi Minh, the North Vietnam president and chairman of the Communist Party. But nary a word was said about the war. In 2001, when President Kim Dae-jung apologized to Vietnam for the acts of his people, Park criticized him for bringing shame to South Korea.
> 
> Behind the scenes, she is pushing for the government to take charge of the production of history books for schools. There are fears that it will be revised to put Park Chung-hee in a better light. In her autobiography, she wrote “The slander against my father continued, and I couldn’t just stand by and watch. As I saw it, my father had no personal ambition other than for his country, the Republic of Korea.”
> 
> The latest insensitivity shown by Ms. Park is her praise of the Korean TV series “Descendants of the Sun,” set in a war-torn country where a Korean officer falls in love with a doctor with a peacekeeping mission. There have been debates over whether it will bother Vietnam people because it will bring back memories of the war. But Park is encouraging its showing in other countries to promote tourism.
> 
> Pres. Park always puts her own interests first. In 1960, her father received $800 million from Japan in the form of soft loans, grants and trusts. Last December, she was able to obtain another apology from Japan for the Korean comfort women and an $8.3 million payment for the victims. But she is her father’s daughter and it will be surprising if she acknowledges the sins of her country and apologize to the Vietnam people. Still, stranger things have happened.
> 
> Source: http://newswire.net/newsroom/oped/00092876-when-will-president-park-apologize-to-the-vietnamese-people.html



Apologies or not. The countries are not unite as North and South combined into one nation. They are still fked. We don't need their cowardly apology. We just need to get stronger. We will make them pay.


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## cnleio

Vietnam Airforce Su-30mk2

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## Viet

Soha has sometimes nice images, I admit. Posting here some of a recent exercise of a combined infantry unit, with tanks, artillery, troop transporters.

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> Soha has sometimes nice images, I admit. Posting here some of a recent exercise of a combined infantry unit, with tanks, artillery, troop transporters.


If im right, this is the China 1st Auto truck in Vietnam Army ???


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> If im right, this is the China 1st Auto truck in Vietnam Army ???
> View attachment 312556


maybe yes, maybe no, I´m not sure. but if the trucks are China made, they must be pretty old, and you will admit, Vietnam is a master in maintaining things until they fall apart, becoming dust. have you seen VPA´s T-34 tanks, still in service today, which were engaged in the final battle of Berlin in 1945? 










T-34 in the Vietnam war. 35 tons, armed with a 85mm main gun which could fire either armor-piercing or high-explosive rounds, top speed of 33mph. in Addition, 1 x 7.62mm, 1 x 12.7mm machine gun, T-54/55-type road wheels, 10RT Radio.

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> maybe yes, maybe no, I´m not sure. but if the trucks are China made, they must be pretty old, and you will admit, Vietnam is a master in maintaining things until they fall apart, becoming dust. have you seen VPA´s T-34 tanks, still in service today, which were engaged in the final battle of Berlin in 1945?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T-34 in the Vietnam war. 35 tons, armed with a 85mm main gun which could fire either armor-piercing or high-explosive rounds, top speed of 33mph. in Addition, 1 x 7.62mm, 1 x 12.7mm machine gun, T-54/55-type road wheels, 10RT Radio.


Those trucks not old, my friend. Coz the 1st Auto (FAW Group Corporation) brand in photo is the new changed brand since 2009 ... the older FAW brand is just "1" or "解放" truck, not like today "1" add Wings.

FAW Automotive
http://www.faw.com/


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Those trucks not old, my friend. Coz the 1st Auto (FAW Group Corporation) brand in photo is the new changed brand since 2009 ... the older FAW brand is just "1" or "解放" truck, not like today "1" add Wings.
> 
> FAW Automotive
> http://www.faw.com/


Amazing. That means you mustn't shoot at made in China trucks should it come to a blow?


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## Genesis

Viet said:


> Amazing. That means you mustn't shoot at made in China trucks should it come to a blow?


If we don't shoot at our own equipment it means we are not a great power. All great powers are proud sponsors of their enemies. I mean how many equipments did ISIS use against Russia, did Saddam use against the US, how many did Argentina use against the Brits/NATO.

I be very disappointed if China isn't shooting at Chinese equipment.


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## Carlosa

*Body found in search for missing Coast Guard plane in Vietnam*

Thanh Nien News

Thursday, June 23, 2016 15:22

Rescuers have found a body this morning during the search for a missing aircraft in Vietnam's East Sea.
They are identifying the body to see if that was one of the nine crew members of the Coast Guard's CASA 212 plane, which crashed into the sea on Jun. 16 during yet another search and rescue mission.

The rescue operation command said they believe the crashed plane is at a depth of 50-60 meters, about 15 nautical miles southeast of Bach Long Vi Island in the Tonkin Gulf.

They located an engine of the plane at a depth of 60 meters in the area this morning.
Lt. Gen Phan Van Gian, the army's Chief of Staff, said divers are trying to recover the engine.
Rescue teams have found debris of the plane after it went missing but have not been able to locate either its black boxes or the crew members.

Vietnam bought three CASA 212 planes for its Coast Guard from Airbus Military in Spain between 2012 and 2013.





Crew members onboard an airplane searching for the missing aircraft in Vietnam's East Sea. Photo: Duy Khanh

Airbus has offered technical assistance in investigating the cause of the crash, the Vietnamese transport ministry said on June 22.

*Series of mishaps*
The turboprop plane is believed to have crashed into the sea in bad weather when it was searching for a pilot of an Air Force fighter aircraft that went down in the area on Jun. 14.
Both pilots of the Sukhoi Su-330 MK2 managed to eject. One of them was rescue a day after and the body of the other was found on June 17.

Searches are ongoing for both planes at the same time.
The latest incidents follows a series of mishaps that hit Vietnam's military in the past two years.

Two Soviet-era Su-22 fighter aircraft of the Vietnamese air force crashed into the East Sea during a training mission in April 2015. Both pilots died in the crash.
Two earlier crashes, which involved a Russian Mi-171 and US-built UH-1, killed 24 people.

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## Viet

New fast patrol boats for the Coast Guard

manufactured by James Boat Vietnam. 12 vessels, MS-50S class, ultra light, Polypropylene carbonate (_PPC_) hull, length 13.63m; wide 3.55m; 2x300HP Volvo engines*, *top speed 35 knots. can host a crew of 16.

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## Viet

The Coast Guard now has a hymne, composed by Nguyễn Mạnh Hùng, "making the waves"

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## Viet

copolymer polypropylene (PPC) James Boat Vietnam is using seem suitable for different other useful stuffs too. Time to step up construction activities on our islands in the SC Sea 

images taken from the company website

simple bridge







Landing bridge























Leisure Boat






Fishing boats

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## Viet

Time to develop tourism at sea. who wants to cruise the South China Sea visiting sharks?

@Carlosa

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> copolymer polypropylene (PPC) James Boat Vietnam is using seem suitable for different other useful stuffs too. Time to step up construction activities on our islands in the SC Sea



are you sure these toy-alike boats could be used in the construction activities in the South China Sea? Are you serious to this complicated/huge engineering challenge? You at least needs some professional ones like these.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> are you sure these toy-alike boats could be used in the construction activities in the South China Sea? Are you serious to this complicated/huge engineering challenge? You at least needs some professional ones like these.


not too bad and impressive no question. if anything we can learn from our neighbour is shipbuilding. we are ways behind. though I believe we are not too bad, either. though we are much smaller. a new reopened Vietnam Damen Song Cam Shipyard, capable to build all sorts of 40 ships a year at the first phase. Dredgers are a specialty 








Hopper Dredger



















we can expect all sorts of dredgers are coming...

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## Viet

...while we are waiting for new dredgers, some old ones can do the job.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> ...while we are waiting for new dredgers, some old ones can do the job.



nice. good to know that the Dutch Damen comes to Vietnam to build a new shipyard. I once heard that Damen has the plan to acquire Song Cam. Do you know how the deal goes? thanks


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> nice. good to know that the Dutch Damen comes to Vietnam to build a new shipyard. I once heard that Damen has the plan to acquire Song Cam. Do you know how the deal goes? thanks


the government okays to 70% Song Cam shares, which can be bought by Damen. though I have no idea when the deal will be closed. I think also it is a question how both sides value the company and if both sides agree to a price. Song Cam makes profit, and as exception to the loss making rest of Vinashin shipbuilding complex.

here nice boats for Venezuela coast guard


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## Viet

estimated 100,000 Vietnamese fought during the WW I on the side of the French. In the letters being sent home to their families the viet soldiers told stories of homesickness, cold weather and terrible food. These things are worse than the enemy on battlefields, notably the fearsome German army.

Arrival in Greece






Arrival in France












Not all survived on battlefields in Europe.






especially not after the bloody battle of the Somme (1916), when the combined French and British armies launched a great offensive against the Germans at the Somme to seek a decision. At the end of the battle, over one million soldiers were killed or wounded. Terrible bloodshed

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## Carlosa

A picture of the C-212 factory in Indonesia on 24/6 where 3 C-212 maritime patrol aircraft are being produced for Vietnam.

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## MacanJawa

Viet said:


> estimated 100,000 Vietnamese fought during the WW I on the side of the French. In the letters being sent home to their families the viet soldiers told stories of homesickness, cold weather and terrible food. These things are worse than the enemy on battlefields, notably the fearsome German army.
> 
> Arrival in Greece
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrival in France
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not all survived on battlefields in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> especially not after the bloody battle of the Somme (1916), when the combined French and British armies launched a great offensive against the Germans at the Somme to seek a decision. At the end of the battle, over one million soldiers were killed or wounded. Terrible bloodshed



poor vietnamese fight for other people war


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> poor vietnamese fight for other people war


Not poor. Whatever motives they had, wanting to earn money or simply seeking adventure abroad, all were volunteers. Nobody should blame them. The French has a long tradition of employing foreigners in the army. the foreign legions.

But it is just a part of the story. Those Vietnamese, who survived when the war was over, were allowed to settle down in France or with money starting a new life in Vietnam. Some of them were later active joining the resistance against the French colonial government. It is an irony of history. The French decision to employ Vietnamese in the army was a huge mistake, contributing later to their total defeat in the last stand in the valley of Dien bien phu.

VN is a country with people capable to learn from the past mistakes.

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## cochine

MacanJawa said:


> poor vietnamese fight for other people war



to learn something about modern tactic, how to deal with whitemen in battle field. At last, we kicked them out from Vietnam


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> @William Hung As per the article above:
> 
> According to the same sources, *Airbus and ELTA could assist the country in integrating the new platform with the rest of the Vietnamese Armed Forces, including Russian-made ones*. The number of the platforms to be acquired could probably be more than two, as the two could probably be not sufficient for the operational requirements.



The keywords are the ones just before what you highlighted, that is, “According to the same sources”. Those “sources” that the article is refering to are Vietnamese local media. Or more specifically, speculations from local VN media and journalists.

I myself don’t know the technical nuances in integrating western and Russian systems. Actually another American member here who probably knows bout it is @Sven... you can try tag and ask him the possibilities.

Personally, I very much doubt it is possible, not just because of technical, security or political issues, but because of business issues too. If Russia wants to pressure VN into buying Russian products rather than non-russian ones, then Russia can just simply refuse to assist VN in integrating the said products. Besides, the non-russian counter-parts will probably be in that same position as well, they also have their own business, political and security concerns when dealing with Russia.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

William Hung said:


> The keywords are the ones just before what you highlighted, that is, “According to the same sources”. Those “sources” that the article is refering to are Vietnamese local media. Or more specifically, speculations from local VN media and journalists.
> 
> *I myself don’t know the technical nuances in integrating western and Russian systems*. Actually another American member here who probably knows bout it is @Sven... you can try tag and ask him the possibilities.
> 
> Personally, I very much doubt it is possible, not just because of technical, security or political issues, but because of business issues too. If Russia wants to pressure VN into buying Russian products rather than non-russian ones, then Russia can just simply refuse to assist VN in integrating the said products. Besides, the non-russian counter-parts will probably be in that same position as well, they also have their own business, political and security concerns when dealing with Russia.



Just to add on the bolded part, To integrate Western and Russian systems, one would require approval from both first.

Russians were quiet disappointed when India integrated Western technologies in Brahmos despite signing an IPR agreement.


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## William Hung

Syama Ayas said:


> Just to add on the bolded part, To add Western and Russian systems, one would required approval from both first.
> 
> Russians were quite disappointed when India integrated Western technologies in Brahmos despite signing an IPR agreement with Russia.



Very true...and VN is in a much much tougher position than India because of the lack of technical know-how... so to integrate both systems, VN will be totally dependent on both the western and Russian manufacturers...and I doubt any of them will agree to it, for political or security reasons.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

William Hung said:


> Very true...and VN is in a much much tougher position than India because of the lack of technical know-how... so to integrate both systems, VN will be totally dependent on both the western and Russian manufacturers...and I doubt any of them will agree to it, for political or security reasons.


Security reasons primarily, Russian were jumpy about India's cooperation with Israel on weapons integration, fearing leak of information on Russian weapon technologies to the West.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> The keywords are the ones just before what you highlighted, that is, “According to the same sources”. Those “sources” that the article is refering to are Vietnamese local media. Or more specifically, speculations from local VN media and journalists.
> 
> I myself don’t know the technical nuances in integrating western and Russian systems. Actually another American member here who probably knows bout it is @Sven... you can try tag and ask him the possibilities.
> 
> Personally, I very much doubt it is possible, not just because of technical, security or political issues, but because of business issues too. If Russia wants to pressure VN into buying Russian products rather than non-russian ones, then Russia can just simply refuse to assist VN in integrating the said products. Besides, the non-russian counter-parts will probably be in that same position as well, they also have their own business, political and security concerns when dealing with Russia.



Maybe, but how do you know that those sources are the local vietnamese media and that whoever the source is, that such statement is not true?

Actually, the Israelis have a lot of experience integrating Russian systems since they have done quite a lot of that, so is not something to dismiss. 

Sure, Russia can pressure VN and VN can also go shopping elsewhere and give Russia the finger. It can also tell them to look for another place to send those refueling flights from or to look for another base other than Cam Ranh Bay, etc. 

The Russians gave India a very high price to integrate the R-73 missile into the Tejas, so India went for Python 5 instead and Russia lost the sales of R-73 missiles. Its a 2 way street game.

Its not in the interest of Russia to push Vietnam away.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Maybe, but how do you know that those sources are the local vietnamese media and that whoever the source is, that such statement is not true?
> 
> Actually, the Israelis have a lot of experience integrating Russian systems since they have done quite a lot of that, so is not something to dismiss.
> 
> Sure, Russia can pressure VN and VN can also go shopping elsewhere and give Russia the finger. It can also tell them to look for another place to send those refueling flights from or to look for another base other than Cam Ranh Bay, etc.
> 
> The Russians gave India a very high price to integrate the R-73 missile into the Tejas, so India went for Python 5 instead and Russia lost the sales of R-73 missiles. Its a 2 way street game.
> 
> Its not in the interest of Russia to push Vietnam away.


why should Russia abandon Vietnam if they make profit from Sino-Vietnam rivalry by playing both parties against each others? the more confrontations, the more arms and businesses the russians make with both China and Vietnam. or the chinese pay bribe money to Moskow if noticing Vietnam wants a toy that can potentially change the balance of power. if Putin abandons Hanoi, he would lose the leverage against Xi Jinping.

Kh-29TE surface-to-ground missile. the weapon of choice for Su-22 fighter jets.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Maybe, but how do you know that those sources are the local vietnamese media and that whoever the source is, that such statement is not true?



I know those sources are local vietnamese media because the article clearly said so. 

see the quote:



> Vietnamese Air Force could be the first customer of the C295 AEW&C aircraft
> 
> Vietnam would buy two Airbus C295 AEW&C aircraft,* according to Vietnamese Media sources*...



Actually, you can just google something like Vietnam + C295 AEW and you can probably still find those original vietnamese media articles. Also I didn’t said it is absolutely impossible...I said I _personally_ very much _doubt_ it. And those VN media source didn’t claim (and neither did that English article) that they have info that Airbus/ELTA *can* integrate them...they only said they think Airbus/ELTA *could* help VN do it.




Carlosa said:


> Actually, the Israelis have a lot of experience integrating Russian systems since they have done quite a lot of that, so is not something to dismiss.



Sure Israel has a lot of experience working with/upgrading Russian platforms like MiGs, tanks, etc. but I have yet to hear any example of them integrating modern Russian fighters with non-russian assets...I’m refering to something like integrating western AEW/AWACs with modern Russian fighters that doesn’t use Israeli or third-party communication system (VN’s Su-30 use a Russian system). Things like providing a datalink between a C-295 AEW-C and the Su-30, I doubt Russia would be willing to hand over sensitive data to a third party to make that possible.




Carlosa said:


> Sure, Russia can pressure VN and VN can also go shopping elsewhere and give Russia the finger. It can also tell them to look for another place to send those refueling flights from or to look for another base other than Cam Ranh Bay, etc.
> 
> The Russians gave India a very high price to integrate the R-73 missile into the Tejas, so India went for Python 5 instead and Russia lost the sales of R-73 missiles. Its a 2 way street game.
> 
> Its not in the interest of Russia to push Vietnam away.



Well, we will see if that will happen or not.


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## Viet

apropos Russia, local media quoted Major General Đỗ Minh Tuấn, deputy commander of the Air Force, saying after receiving the 36th Su-30 this year, the army would look for a new modern fighter jet. Su-35 or a western aircraft?

a pair of Su-30 takes off.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> I know those sources are local vietnamese media because the article clearly said so.
> 
> see the quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you can just google something like Vietnam + C295 AEW and you can probably still find those original vietnamese media articles. Also I didn’t said it is absolutely impossible...I said I _personally_ very much _doubt_ it. And those VN media source didn’t claim (and neither did that English article) that they have info that Airbus/ELTA *can* integrate them...they only said they think Airbus/ELTA *could* help VN do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure Israel has a lot of experience working with/upgrading Russian platforms like MiGs, tanks, etc. but I have yet to hear any example of them integrating modern Russian fighters with non-russian assets...I’m refering to something like integrating western AEW/AWACs with modern Russian fighters that doesn’t use Israeli or third-party communication system (VN’s Su-30 use a Russian system). Things like providing a datalink between a C-295 AEW-C and the Su-30, I doubt Russia would be willing to hand over sensitive data to a third party to make that possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we will see if that will happen or not.



I guess we'll hope for the best. Russia doesn't have a whole lot of friends these days and its not in their interest to antagonize Vietnam. Russia is quite unhappy already having to depend on China for some financial / economic help, so they need to keep good relations with the few friends that they have left.




Viet said:


> apropos Russia, local media quoted Major General Đỗ Minh Tuấn, deputy commander of the Air Force, saying after receiving the 36th Su-30 this year, the army would look for a new modern fighter jet. Su-35 or a western aircraft?
> 
> a pair of Su-30 takes off.



I think both, SU-35 and F-16. I think Vietnam will go both ways and keep one foot on each direction just to be safe. Its not good to put all your eggs in one basket.



Viet said:


> why should Russia abandon Vietnam if they make profit from Sino-Vietnam rivalry by playing both parties against each others? the more confrontations, the more arms and businesses the russians make with both China and Vietnam. or the chinese pay bribe money to Moskow if noticing Vietnam wants a toy that can potentially change the balance of power. if Putin abandons Hanoi, he would lose the leverage against Xi Jinping.
> 
> Kh-29TE surface-to-ground missile. the weapon of choice for Su-22 fighter jets.



Thats also my point, I don't see a good reason for Russia to not cooperate with Vietnam other than under intense pressure from China and even in that case, I don't think they will cut off Vietnam. The Russians know that the situation with China is a marriage of convenience and is not long lasting, they don't trust the chinese one bit.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Sure Israel has a lot of experience working with/upgrading Russian platforms like MiGs, tanks, etc. but I have yet to hear any example of them integrating modern Russian fighters with non-russian assets...I’m refering to something like integrating western AEW/AWACs with modern Russian fighters that doesn’t use Israeli or third-party communication system (VN’s Su-30 use a Russian system). Things like providing a datalink between a C-295 AEW-C and the Su-30, I doubt Russia would be willing to hand over sensitive data to a third party to make that possible..



I don't think interfacing Russian and western datalinks is a big issue, that should be an easy one for the Israelis to integrate and I think Vietnam can also do it by itself (Viettel should be able to do it). Many former Varsaw Pact countries had to interface their old Russian equipment with the newer western equipment and it was done.

The Vietnamese air surveillance network that was done by Viettel has to be able to communicate with the SU-30 datalinks (that's basic) and at that point it should be able to interface with western datalinks. There is equipment available that will integrate many different datalink systems including any user defined datalink (like a Russian one). Such equipment is called "Multi tactical data link gateway engine".

One example: http://www.isihellas.com/products/tactical-data-links/universal-link-system-uls

Vietnam obviously has the encryption codes for the SU-30 datalinks (otherwise it could not use them) and at that point it can interface the data with a western datalink via an interfacing box. A C-295 AWACS will have the equipment to interface with different tactical datalinks systems.

Same story with missile datalinks. Vietnam has to have the datalink information for a KH-35 as an example and be able to link to other ISR data that can guide the missile. If Vietnam has that capability, them it can also use that data to interface with a C-295 datalink. If Vietnam does not have that capability, then Vietnam is getting ripped off. I don't want to think that's the case.

*ULS - The Multi Tactical Data Link Gateway Engine*





The ULS is a versatile, modular, scalable, Data Link Processor(DLP) that can be configured to include all NATO, U.S. Standard Data Links as well as customer-defined Links in any combination required by the end-user.

Constitutes a force multiplier offering an increase in the Situational Awareness by delivering the Common Tactical Picture and improving control of all linked Tactical assets.

The Universal Link System (ULS) is a network-centric software solution that enables a seamless, configurable, expandable integration of Data Links on Land, Sea and Air platforms and assets, providing them with participation and forwarding amongst Link 16, Link 11A, Link 11B, Link1, ATDL-1, IJMS, JREAP and Link 22 in the near future.

It can be configured as a single Data Link solution for any C2 or non-C2 asset and expand easily for multiple Data Links connectivity and forwarding, by simply adding the appropriate s/w and h/w components.

The ULS is easily integrated into any existing C2 system by expanding its capabilities in delivering the Common Tactical Picture (CTP). This is achieved by its open architecture and information exchange interfacing protocols.

In a stand-alone configuration the ULS provides C2 operational capabilities, such as Data Fusion, Track Management, Correlation/De-correlation, ID/IFF Conflict, Pairing, Filtering, Threat evaluation and more.

The ULS is an essential step in achieving Inter-Service interoperability and provides the basis of a truly integrated tactical environment.






*Features*


Connectivity to any type of tactical host (C2, Weapons etc.)
Advanced Multi-Link Data Forwarding capabilities amongst all links with user-defined filters (Geographic, Altitude, Positional etc.)
Expandable to incorporate customer-defined Data Links
Complete and thorough message sets implementation for Link 16,Link 11 A/B, Link 1, TADIL-A, IJMS, with Link 22 under development
C2 Operational capabilities, including Commands & Orders, Weapons Control & Status, ID/IFF Conflict, Pairing, Filtering Threat Evaluation etc.
Capable of integrating and processing active and passive sensor inputs (ASTERIX, AIRCAT etc.)
Multi-Link Correlation / De-correlation processing
Robust and efficient Data Extraction / Reduction functionality
Based on COTS equipment keeping physical footprint and costs to a minimum
Stand-alone or multi-console configurations with its own interface or integrated into a legacy tactical mission system
Field transportable configuration for high mobility small units

Dual or single display – Graphical C2 Tactical Situation
Configurable Track Information Display
Enhanced MAP and display filtering options with the capability of displaying maps in multiple formats
Intuitive dialogue-driven action initiation
Comprehensive Menu sets for managing Data Links and executing C2 functions
Web interface to control the Data Links operation
*Proven*
Installations of the ULS exist today in various configurations in Land, Sea and Air assets in a number of countries around the world, providing them with effective Data Link capabilities to share tactical information and improve their Situational Awareness

*Customizable*
The ULS is customizable to include and integrate with National and non-standard Data Links, apart from the range of NATO and U.S. standard links

*Cost Effective*
Cost-effective solution allowing for gradual expansion of capabilities as the operational needs increase

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I guess we'll hope for the best. Russia doesn't have a whole lot of friends these days and its not in their interest to antagonize Vietnam. Russia is quite unhappy already having to depend on China for some financial / economic help, so they need to keep good relations with the few friends that they have left.
> 
> I don't think interfacing Russian and western datalinks is a big issue, that should be an easy one for the Israelis to integrate. Many former Varsaw Pact countries had to interface their old Russian equipment with the newer western equipment and it was done. That being said, I'm certainly not much of an expert on this.
> 
> 
> 
> I think both, SU-35 and F-16. I think Vietnam will go both ways and keep one foot on each direction just to be safe. Its not good to put all your eggs in one basket.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats also my point, I don't see a good reason for Russia to not cooperate with Vietnam other than under intense pressure from China and even in that case, I don't think they will cut off Vietnam. The Russians know that the situation with China is a marriage of convenience and is not long lasting, they don't trust the chinese one bit.


I think Russia feels very uncomfortable just being a junior partner in China great game. That is not what she wants. Losing Vietnam to China would not only mean the end of Russia influence in Vietnam but Cambodia, Laos, yes, SE Asia. Not too mention the SC sea, the western Pacific. Should Russia give up other regions such as Central Asia too? That would be the end for Russia as great power.

The Chinese think can lure the Russians into the trap, with money and other honey promises. one should not forget, all the money poured to Russia serve first and foremost Chinese companies. Or worse, loans with high interests. Buying Russia assets for a handful yuans. America as common enemy is too little. Too vague. Too short lived.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think Russia feels very uncomfortable just being a junior partner in China great game. That is not what she wants. Losing Vietnam to China would not only mean the end of Russia influence in Vietnam but Cambodia, Laos, yes, SE Asia. Not too mention the SC sea, the western Pacific. Should Russia give up other regions such as Central Asia too? That would be the end for Russia as great power.
> 
> The Chinese think can lure the Russians into the trap, with money and other honey promises. one should not forget, all the money poured to Russia serve first and foremost Chinese companies. Or worse, loans with high interests. Buying Russia assets for a handful yuans. America as common enemy is too little. Too vague. Too short lived.



I totally agree with you, the Russians understand the chinese very well. Its just a temporary marriage of convenience.


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## CountStrike

June 26, 2016 1:00 pm JST
*Vietnam eyes secondhand Japanese defense gear*
ATSUSHI TOMIYAMA, Nikkei staff writer





A Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C anti-submarine patrol aircraft sits on Palawan Island in the western Philippines, near the disputed Spratly Islands, in June 2015. © Reuters

HANOI -- Vietnam is looking to beef up its defense capabilities, particularly now that the U.S. has fully lifted its arms embargo against the country.

It is especially keen to enhance its air patrols to counter China, which has been building military facilities on artificial islands in the South China Sea. The problem is the hefty price tag of U.S. gear. As an alternative, Vietnam is apparently looking to buy cheaper secondhand aircraft from Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force.



*More than a bargain*

Vietnam has long wanted anti-submarine aircraft and many analysts thought Vietnam would move quickly to purchase one from the U.S. once the arms embargo was lifted. But Japan has also emerged as a potential supplier. According to a Japanese official, the Vietnamese navy informally asked in the spring to buy retired MSDF P-3C anti-submarine aircraft.

The P-3C patrol plane is a derivative of the P-3 Orion, a surveillance plane made by Lockheed Martin of the U.S. Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries is licensed to build the aircraft, which has broad search capabilities and is good at detecting submarines. The MSDF is said to own about 80 of the planes.

Vietnam frets about China's underwater threat. Beijing is estimated to have at least 70 submarines. The Southeast Asian country has purchased six Kilo-class submarines from Russia since 2015. But that is far from enough to counter China. An improved air patrol fleet is essential to its anti-submarine capabilities.

Reuters reports that Vietnam is expected to ask Lockheed Martin to for pricing and availability data on four to six older U.S. Navy P-3 Orions in the next few months. A brand-new P-3 would probably go for at least $80 million, which would keep Vietnam from buying more than one at a time.

But money is not the only reason why Vietnam is turning to Japan. First, Japan will have more P-3C aircraft available. The MSDF has been replacing the propeller-driven planes with the cutting-edge P-1 jet since 2013. Also, Vietnam hopes to get training along with the planes. P-3C pilots must be able to distinguish enemy submarines from other craft by the sound of their screws, for instance. The MSDF is considered to be one of the most sophisticated operators of the aircraft in the world. Vietnam appears to think it would be easier to learn from Japan, with which it has political and economic ties.





A Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force ship makes a rare call in May at Cam Ranh Bay, a strategic port in southern Vietnam, the second in as many months. (Courtesy of the Japanese Ministry of Defense)

In addition, Vietnam apparently hopes to hone its skills through joint exercises with the MSDF. Japanese P-3Cs have been visiting Danang, in central Vietnam, for several years. This year, the two sides are scheduled to hold joint search and rescue drills. For the MSDF, the exercise is an opportunity to show off its humanitarian work. For Vietnam, it could provide advance training with the P-3C.

In late May, after meeting with visiting U.S. President Barack Obama, Tran Dai Quang, his Vietnamese counterpart, welcomed the complete lifting of the 41-year-old arms embargo, which dates to the end of the Vietnam War. "Both countries have completely normalized relations," Tran said at a joint news conference with Obama after their meeting.

The lifting of the restrictions will encourage Vietnam to allow U.S. Navy ships to call at Cam Ranh Bay, a strategic port in the south of the country. The U.S. is eager to get access to the strategic port. The first U.S. Navy destroyer is expected to call in the autumn or later, something that China is bound to notice.

*Soothing China*

China remains one of Vietnam's most important neighbors. It is the country's second-largest trade partner in value terms, accounting for 20% of the total, and the Communist Party of Vietnam is modeled after its Chinese counterpart.

Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich skipped the June 3 annual forum known as the Shangri-La Dialogue on Asian security in Singapore. Instead he sent his deputy, Nguyen Chi Vinh, to the conference. Ngo may have been trying to avoid annoying China, which is sparring with the U.S. over Beijing's military buildup in the South China Sea.

For now, Hanoi is at pains to avoid provoking China by putting on military muscle too quickly, or siding openly with the U.S.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Eco...Vietnam-eyes-secondhand-Japanese-defense-gear

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## SvenSvensonov

William Hung said:


> I myself don’t know the technical nuances in integrating western and Russian systems. Actually another American member here who probably knows bout it is @Sven... you can try tag and ask him the possibilities.



Depends largely on the individual system. Some like tanks we can add or subtract a new part without needing an extensive overhaul. Some like aircraft will require more intrusive and expensive renovations.

Your T-62 tanks? Sure, in fact the US has a handful of captured T-62s it modernized with American equipment including FCS and radio comms that we use for Opposing Forces exercises.






Your Kilos? It's possible to overhaul the FCS and other components like engines - they need to fit within the boats dimensions and space constrains and be able to communication with other systems, so the overhaul would be more complex then modernizing a tank, but we can do this too.

Turkey is upgrading a handful of Pakistan's older French submarines.






Your aircraft like SU-27 or SU-30? Definitely and European and American firms have experience overhauling Russian aircraft with Western Avionics.

Romania contracted an Israeli firm to modernize their MiG-29s into what was called the MiG-29 Sniper, though the program was eventually cancelled due to a lack of funds on the Romanian side.






Slovakia on the other hand operates MiG-29AS variants that have successfully been outfitted with Western systems:

_Slovak Air Force performed an upgrade on their MiG-29/-29UB for NATO compatibility. Work is done by RAC MiG and Western firms, starting from 2005. The aircraft now has navigation and communications systems from Rockwell Collins, an IFF system from BAE Systems, new glass cockpit features multi-function LC displays and digital processors and also fitted to be integrate with Western equipment in the future. However, the armaments of the aircraft remain unchanged. 12 out of 21 of the entire MiG-29 fleet were upgraded and had been delivered as of late February 2008.
_
The drawback here is that the modernization was done by MiG and not a European firm, but that doesn't need to be the case as noted with the MiG-29 Sniper program.

The S-125 SAMs? Try asking Poland who has modernized their missiles.






Would it be easy to integrate a radar, say like the Patriots upgraded AESA into such a S-125 battery or into a system like S-300?






No, the radar has too much to talk too including supporting radars, fire control computers, the missiles themselves and support infrastructure that a complete overhaul would be needed. You can't just plug and play. So not everything is going to be easy or doable on a budget.

We, the US and Europe (and nations outside of these areas like Turkey, Japan or Israel) can overhaul just about anything you have in your inventory and have experience do just that with a multitude of systems you're using. Many, like aircraft or missile batteries, will require extensive modernization or overhauls, not just ripping out a Kilo's FCS and dropping in a new one that can't talk with the rest of the original systems that are still in place. The modernization or overhaul will need to be extensive or thorough.

But we can do it. And we can do it with most, if not all of the weapons or systems you're using with or without Russian help.



Syama Ayas said:


> To integrate Western and Russian systems, one would require approval from both first.



If you want to be diplomatic, sure, it'd be good to ask the Russians for their help or get their approval. And for Vietnam who still has a strong partnership with Russia, that'd be a prudent course.

But we don't _need_ their help or permission. If a nation can accept the risks, we can go ahead and do the upgrade whether Russia wants us to or not.

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## vtnsx

William Hung said:


> Very true...and VN is in a much much tougher position than India because of the lack of technical know-how... so to integrate both systems, VN will be totally dependent on both the western and Russian manufacturers...and I doubt any of them will agree to it, for political or security reasons.



ture, nobody trust the Vietnamese Communist Party. They are snakes. They say something today, then change it tomorrow. Never trust these clowns. It's best to wipe them out altogether and replace with the right system and people.

Plus, VCP is so paranoid right now about China so she is purchasing all these outdated/mid-class weapons for defense. Spending billion of dollars on Jets, Subs, etc, are good for surveillance but useless in a real battle. Back in WWII Germany wasn't that stupid to purchase items they have no control over it. They Engineered and Manufactured everything.

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## GS Zhou

vtnsx said:


> ture, nobody trust the Vietnamese Communist Party. They are snakes. They say something today, then change it tomorrow. Never trust these clowns. It's best to wipe them out altogether and replace with the right system and people.



I fully agree with your point! Vietnam needs a revolution to wipe out the "snake-alike" VCP!

Just do it!

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## Aqsuperman

vtnsx said:


> ture, nobody trust the Vietnamese Communist Party. They are snakes. They say something today, then change it tomorrow. Never trust these clowns. It's best to wipe them out altogether and replace with the right system and people.
> 
> Plus, VCP is so paranoid right now about China so she is purchasing all these outdated/mid-class weapons for defense. Spending billion of dollars on Jets, Subs, etc, are good for surveillance but useless in a real battle. Back in WWII Germany wasn't that stupid to purchase items they have no control over it. They Engineered and Manufactured everything.



Oh right. You sure that the "new and right" system will be much better than the old ones ? I would love to see some Libyan and Iraqui to have a few words about this subject. Wipe them out ? LOL LOL LOL you do have some big and brave mouth there , my friend. Just because you have a new regime people wont come over and give you "gift" that contain technology and economic plus military backing. Thousands "promises" about "peace, strong and indepence" in the world history turn out to be crap.They will wrestle the influence of your pathetic arse and control the country at the first sight of political instability. And you think technology just fall out of the sky and people pick them up ? You think that just by sitting in 1 place and somehow idea about new technology will pop out ? Even Japan after the WW2 have to buy foreign techonology first to keep up with the world and study them. Then finally they start to manafacture their own verison. Its a long and costly procedure. You think VN is ready or even have time for that ? What if war broke out and all you got is a bunch of blue-print, what are you going to do ? "Wait, let me develop this jet first then attack me , ok ?" No, even the people cant learn to obey traffic rule and yet somehow the goverment is still at fault.

"Useless" in battle ? Well you must have been a general or atleast have some experience in conducting REAL warfare right ? Or most of you "experience" come from the internet like the rest of us but you just have to come to such a bold conclusion ? Oh wait, let us disband the Armed Force and the General Staff then put you in charge of the entire internal affair of Vietnam since you seem quite "capable" about many subjects on the keyboard , sound good ? 

And finally, how in the living hell that you compare VN and Germany. They been kicking the word since Prussia and people have been bombing and colonizing us since the Nguyen dynasty ..........GREAT COMPARSION. What VN lack right now is the people who is willing to LEARN. Complaining and blaiming are for coward. 99.69% people blaiming the regime turn out never make something worth noticing most of their life so sit down and be productive or sreaming over the internet thinking that may help.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I fully agree with your point! Vietnam needs a revolution to wipe out the "snake-alike" VCP!
> 
> Just do it!


No. Regardless how you look at it, the current ruler under the communist party of VN has every reasons to rule the country. It reflects Vietnamese tradition since ancient times, going back since the first independent Vietnam 2,000 years ago. That says, whoever no matter if man or women, expels the invaders, uniting the country and people, no matter whatever belief, religion nor party.

So no matter if I like the communists or not. The opinions of majority weight more than some individuals, that think otherwise.


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## Viet

*

*

*News*
*MARITIME SECURITY*


*Vietnam Coast Guard orders extra boats*
29th June 2016 - by Gordon Arthur in Hong Kong








Capitalising on satisfaction from a previous batch of patrol boats, James Boat Technologies (JBT) received a new order for a dozen 13.66m patrol boats destined for the Vietnam Coast Guard (VCG).

A contract was signed on 24 June by Maj Gen Nguyen Quang Dam, commander of the VCG, and the local shipbuilder. Deliveries should be completed next year.

The type being acquired is the company’s MS 50S patrol boat. It has a top speed of 35kt thanks to two 300hp Volvo engines and can operate in conditions up to sea state six. It is able to accommodate up to 16 personnel.

The high-speed MS 50S employs a polypropylene carbonate (PPC) material sourced from the Czech Republic for its hull construction, and JBT states on its website that, ‘During its lifetime, the hull won’t need repainting or maintaining.’

The first order for the MS 50S was placed on 12 February 2015 and all have since been delivered to the coast guard.

JBT was originally founded in the landlocked Czech Republic in 1995, while its subsidiary was established in Vietnam in 2013.

The VCG, a branch of the People’s Army of Vietnam, is responsible for maritime security along Vietnam’s coast and in riverine areas such as the Mekong Delta. These new patrol boats are suitable for such near-shore operations, including interdicting smugglers.

In other VCG news, Japan is strengthening cooperation with Vietnam through Official Development Assistance (ODA) funding with the promise on 28 May to accelerate a programme to supply new patrol vessels.

Japan previously handed over six patrol boats to the VCG following an August 2014 understanding. Vietnam has locally converted these 600-800t boats previously operated as fishery patrol or commercial fishing boats into maritime security vessels.

With Vietnam facing assertive territorial claims from China in the South China Sea, Japan sees an opportunity to strengthen its regional ties and to ward off Chinese maritime ambitions. There is also speculation Vietnam could ask Japan for retired P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft.

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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Oh right. You sure that the "new and right" system will be much better than the old ones ? I would love to see some Libyan and Iraqui to have a few words about this subject. Wipe them out ? LOL LOL LOL you do have some big and brave mouth there , my friend. Just because you have a new regime people wont come over and give you "gift" that contain technology and economic plus military backing. Thousands "promises" about "peace, strong and indepence" in the world history turn out to be crap.They will wrestle the influence of your pathetic arse and control the country at the first sight of political instability. And you think technology just fall out of the sky and people pick them up ? You think that just by sitting in 1 place and somehow idea about new technology will pop out ? Even Japan after the WW2 have to buy foreign techonology first to keep up with the world and study them. Then finally they start to manafacture their own verison. Its a long and costly procedure. You think VN is ready or even have time for that ? What if war broke out and all you got is a bunch of blue-print, what are you going to do ? "Wait, let me develop this jet first then attack me , ok ?" No, even the people cant learn to obey traffic rule and yet somehow the goverment is still at fault.
> 
> "Useless" in battle ? Well you must have been a general or atleast have some experience in conducting REAL warfare right ? Or most of you "experience" come from the internet like the rest of us but you just have to come to such a bold conclusion ? Oh wait, let us disband the Armed Force and the General Staff then put you in charge of the entire internal affair of Vietnam since you seem quite "capable" about many subjects on the keyboard , sound good ?
> 
> And finally, how in the living hell that you compare VN and Germany. They been kicking the word since Prussia and people have been bombing and colonizing us since the Nguyen dynasty ..........GREAT COMPARSION. What VN lack right now is the people who is willing to LEARN. Complaining and blaiming are for coward. 99.69% people blaiming the regime turn out never make something worth noticing most of their life so sit down and be productive or sreaming over the internet thinking that may help.



AQ, YOU ARE STUPID! no offense! I've been patient with people in here because I thought you guys know better about technology but all you know is reading from news and articles from someone else's saying. You don't even know how to think for your self. Which is why I don't need to play nice to anyone. You know nothing about technology. Even a US clown knows more about technology than you. Do you even know how manufacturing works? nope.

Willing to learn you say? Why don't you go learn something about design and manufacturing something in Vietnam then come tell me how you think about it. It is totally normal to blame the regime for its failure. Only ignorant VCP people don't get it. Why did you think Obama did a speech in Vietnam about VCP should learn how to take CRITICISM and do something about it rather than defending your stupidity and ignorance, LIKE YOU! No wonder you're still IGNORANT and WILL NEVER LEARN! Why DO YOU THINK SMART VIETNAMESE PEOPLE ARE LEAVING VIETNAM BECAUSE THEY DON'T GET REWARDED ENOUGH FOR WHAT THEY DO

"GREAT COMPARSION. What VN lack right now is the *people who is willing to LEARN*." <---- YEAH YOU!! GO LEARN SOMETHING!! Do you even know how to make STEEL? The Earth is flat right? 

Since you're so smart, AQ, tell me what can you do with 6 Russian Submarines and some Russian jets? Spend more money? LOL! Sure, since you're so giving, why don't you give the rest of your savings to the VCP so they can purchase more of these outdated weapons. Go make the Russian rich for a cheap gain.

*"No, even the people cant learn to obey traffic rule and yet somehow the goverment is still at fault."*

So you're the one who can't obey traffic. The people who can't obey traffic are people who can't read and write and without an education or basic logic or bribe. You make people of Vietnam sound so dumb, yet you're the one with limited knowledge.

*"Complaining and blaiming are for coward. 99.69% people blaiming the regime turn out never make something worth noticing most of their life so sit down and be productive or sreaming over the internet thinking that may help."*

You're complaining to me about my complaining to VCP. You're doing exactly what I do. So from your logic, you're a coward. But you're doing it wrong. Go learn how to *TAKE* criticism and re-evaluate yourself. I do it all the time and it's normal.

It's called freedom of speech, airhead. If you want to get along with the US and TPP, then go learn it and practice it.

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## 3Kingdoms

vtnsx said:


> AQ, YOU ARE STUPID! no offense! ....


LOL - the armament is to deter war, if Vietnam went to war against China it would lose, but it will make it expensive for China in a fight, that is the deterrent. Also having armament give the country the impression of security. Foreign direct investments come to secure countries - has it worked YES!! Vietnam can not simply invent a new tank or plane, that technology is already established, that means all countries have to follow in that path, that means you have to have help from said countries. What the Germans did was improve what was already conceived, their industrialization came from the technology of Britain i.e steam and combustion.


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## vtnsx

3Kingdoms said:


> LOL - the armament is to deter war, if Vietnam went to war against China it would lose, but it will make it expensive for China in a fight, that is the deterrent. Also having armament give the country the impression of security. Foreign direct investments come to secure countries - has it worked YES!! Vietnam can not simply invent a new tank or plane, that technology is already established, that means all countries have to follow in that path, that means you have to have help from said countries. What the Germans did was improve what was already conceived, their industrialization came from the technology of Britain i.e steam and combustion.



There ain't going to be a war with China and Vietnam.

"Foreign direct investments come to secure countries - has it worked YES!! "
Of course, corruption doesn't bring security to investors. Investors don't just only look at security, they look at ROI too.

"Vietnam can not simply invent a new tank or plane"
No one needs to reinvent the wheel. Use what is already available for manufacturing and apply that. Who says you can't fabricate tanks and planes? What I'm saying is why purchase second hand weapon when you can develop your own using the resources, technology and engineered materials already available and established. Spending million and billion of dollars into these temporary weapons aren't going to stop Chinese's rise. Those billion of dollars could trigger investments into better machineries, rewards engineers and scientists, improve logistics, etc.

When you have clowns running the VCP, you get clowns building the country. Only clowns would hire a clown to work for them.

"What the Germans did was improve what was already conceived, their industrialization came from the technology of Britain i.e steam and combustion"

Exactly my point. What is stopping Vietnam from achieving these objectives? VCP ignorance. Sure, you can buy weapons from the USA and Russia but you're not exactly controlling the technology. This is why they are second rated weapons. Nothing more. Do you really think USA is that naive and listen to VCP snakes? Look what happen to Paris Peace Treaty in 1973. Unless, VCP snakes finally decide to open up to citizen, open up to criticism, in other words "grow the f up" and learn to take criticisms as feedback and find out why people are criticizing. Of course, they wouldn't do it without a cost. VCP can talk a lot of sh1t but actually it is the Vietnamese people that take the hit from these good for nothing snakes. AQ is straight up brainwashed and ignorant to the point of being irreversible. VCP brainwashed people so they can control them. It is getting better now because China see how dumb VCP is and China took those islands by force. This pushes VCP to learn something and educate themselves so they can protect their corrupted SOEs. But that didn't work either, now they are asking for the US's support. While the US is electing a new President and TPP could be dead in the water. LOL!

USA isn't going to be your mother. Stop asking help when you are not ready to change.

@Carlosa @AViet @Aqsuperman @William Hung @JaiMin

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## Viet

Escort Fleet 171 live fire exercise in the SC Sea

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## Viet

Bidding farewell to CASA 212 crewmembers

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## 3Kingdoms

vtnsx said:


> There ain't going to be a war with China and Vietnam.
> 
> "Foreign direct investments come to secure countries - has it worked YES!! "
> Of course, corruption doesn't bring security to investors. Investors don't just only look at security, they look at ROI too.[/USER]



Yes I know there will be no war - it was hypothetical. You must ask why that is, has the VCP strategically place itself? Trade deficit with China is telling because most of the trade is specifically in South China, this will deter those that benefit from Vietnamese business. On other hand China helps Vietnam develop because China needs markets for its products. 

You say "corruption doesn't bring security to investors". You have indirectly complemented the VCP.
Returns underlie FDI and we are dealing with capitalist everyone rightly demands returns. 
Security means solid governance foremost - maybe hungry entrepreneurs can make swift changes via private companies that sway SOE's and maybe governance also. VCP is not perfect but Vietnam need stable governance beyond a point where it can transition to better social standards, way latter. 



vtnsx said:


> No one needs to reinvent the wheel. Use what is already available for manufacturing and apply that. Who says you can't fabricate tanks and planes? What I'm saying is why purchase second hand weapon when you can develop your own using the resources, technology and engineered materials already available and established. Spending million and billion of dollars into these temporary weapons aren't going to stop Chinese's rise. Those billion of dollars could trigger investments into better machineries, rewards engineers and scientists, improve logistics, etc.
> [/USER]


Their is a quote from a computer game "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire." - Mass Effect, your Canadian you should know.

Look at Vietnam geography, it has shallow width moving southward, a long coastline, we can draw that Vietnam's weakness is sea and air. Moving off topic but the hinterland is where most raw materials reside. Vietnam is poor, it uses the raw materials is has to export. It doesn't have a science history, resources (exported for profit), money for R&D. It needs security now! Maybe years later if things go as planned then we may very well see product inventions from Vietnam. 
Also nothing is going to stop China's rise, that is hard truth!



vtnsx said:


> Exactly my point. What is stopping Vietnam from achieving these objectives? VCP ignorance. Sure, you can buy weapons from the USA and Russia but you're not exactly controlling the technology. This is why they are second rated weapons. Nothing more. Do you really think USA is that naive and listen to VCP snakes? Look what happen to Paris Peace Treaty in 1973. Unless, VCP snakes finally decide to open up to citizen, open up to criticism, in other words "grow the f up" and learn to take criticisms as feedback and find out why people are criticizing. Of course, they wouldn't do it without a cost. VCP can talk a lot of sh1t but actually it is the Vietnamese people that take the hit from these good for nothing snakes. AQ is straight up brainwashed and ignorant to the point of being irreversible. VCP brainwashed people so they can control them. It is getting better now because China see how dumb VCP is and China took those islands by force. This pushes VCP to learn something and educate themselves so they can protect their corrupted SOEs. But that didn't work either, now they are asking for the US's support. While the US is electing a new President and TPP could be dead in the water. LOL!
> 
> USA isn't going to be your mother. Stop asking help when you are not ready to change.
> [/USER]



Somethings in governance are not meant to be shared with its citizens, the opinions of those citizens have no weight because they truly don't understand the politics behind them (that includes us overseas). 

It's true what you say about the tech from US & Russia, this should wake fellow Vietnamese, that they are only strategic partners not friends of Vietnam. The weapons Vietnam does have control over them, it's the tech transfers and maintenance that's the yoke. These countries spent billions in R&D billions in manufacture why should they give them away, does Vietnam have this money?
Benefits of buying tech from developed countries is that Vietnam also gets training, knowledge transfers (however partial). I have no doubt Vietnamese will use all they learn to enhance themselves. Also it's cheaper than spending so many billions on R&D only to have dud products, you learn from established nations get a sense of what needs to be done, how to do it and be on your own way. 
Reason why Vietnam is asking for US assistance in EastSea, because China is quickly becoming regional hegemon, a united ASEAN can't balance China. Also it's in US interest that they intervene, because China would influence the whole region, transfer wealth and power that is teeter-tooter to the East. 

Vietnam a sovereign country via blood - how many countries still stand that are sovereign, the VCP has done well until now, buying weapons from opposing countries, attract FDI and have have a developing economy.


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## vtnsx

3Kingdoms said:


> Yes I know there will be no war - it was hypothetical. You must ask why that is, has the VCP strategically place itself? Trade deficit with China is telling because most of the trade is specifically in South China, this will deter those that benefit from Vietnamese business. On other hand China helps Vietnam develop because China needs markets for its products.



Yes I know there will be no war - it was hypothetical. You must ask why that is, has the VCP strategically place itself? Trade deficit with China is telling because most of the trade is specifically in South China, this will deter those that benefit from Vietnamese business. On other hand China helps Vietnam develop because China needs markets for its products.

China doesn't help Vietnam develop. It helped Vietnam undeveloped. Look at the previous construction projects built by Chinese contractors. There is Zero food safety, zero work safety, and these are due to the lack understanding of freedom of expression and human rights. I'm not saying that they cannot improve it. It will take someone strong enough to stand up to it and it shouldn't be that way. The list goes on. 

Vietnam doesn't want to go to war with China. China can go to war with Vietnam but since the US is somewhat involved. Not directly but indirectly. China has a lot to lose, mainly its wealth. Look at Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, Shenzhen, etc. A lot of lose for little gain of SCS. This forces China to rethink of another strategy. Do you think China is going to give up? Hell no. Since Vietnam is still weak, poor and undeveloped, China can still rule the VCP. 

And here you think trade with China is a good thing? lol! Unbelievable. Maybe you need to visit Vietnam. Of course, from VCP's mind, trade with China is a good thing. Why? it brings them money so they can purchase more useless Russian jets, subs, etc. For what? To leave it to rot? lol sure. While leaving Vietnamese citizens eating poison food that are coming from China. VCP doesn't give a hair to its people. 

Beating up citizens for standing up to China. Unable to understand and complete a balance sheet. What do you call it? oh right, INCOMPETENCE! or LACK of EDUCATION. It's really easy to throw a few million lives to perform suicide missions for you. Of course VCP isn't perfect. What is wrong with VCP? Running by a bunch of buffoons. These guys don't believe in Education, Engineer and Science. They believe in lies, dishonor and corruption. Because it is too much work to be Educated and put in the hardwork. It's easier to steal and lie. Arrest/remove people with different opinions to protect their own ignorance so they can be on top. Hmm, does that sounds familiar? A buffoon.

You say "corruption doesn't bring security to investors". You have indirectly complemented the VCP.
Returns underlie FDI and we are dealing with capitalist everyone rightly demands returns.
Security means solid governance foremost - maybe hungry entrepreneurs can make swift changes via private companies that sway SOE's and maybe governance also. VCP is not perfect but Vietnam need stable governance beyond a point where it can transition to better social standards, way latter.

Are you in business and investing? no? then you're obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Government stability? VCP isn't stable, man. She's PARANOID AS F! It's not stable when VCP can't honor their own words. Unless contracts are protected by legal means and that legal means are being honored by VCP which is then in checks by Vietnamese public, then yes, that is almost stable. You don't understand politics and business, man. Only gangsters would agree with you about corruption is good business.

Their is a quote from a computer game "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire." - Mass Effect, your Canadian you should know.

I don't play video games anymore. And I don't take quotes from video games. I live my own life and I create my own quotes. 

Look at Vietnam geography, it has shallow width moving southward, a long coastline, we can draw that Vietnam's weakness is sea and air. Moving off topic but the hinterland is where most raw materials reside. Vietnam is poor, it uses the raw materials is has to export. It doesn't have a science history, resources (exported for profit), money for R&D. It needs security now! Maybe years later if things go as planned then we may very well see product inventions from Vietnam.
Also nothing is going to stop China's rise, that is hard truth!

Vietnam is not poor. Just runs by poor minds.

Somethings in governance are not meant to be shared with its citizens, the opinions of those citizens have no weight because they truly don't understand the politics behind them (that includes us overseas).

Certain things can and certain things should. Not everything should be closed.

It's true what you say about the tech from US & Russia, this should wake fellow Vietnamese, that they are only strategic partners not friends of Vietnam. The weapons Vietnam does have control over them, it's the tech transfers and maintenance that's the yoke. 

These countries spent billions in R&D billions in manufacture why should they give them away, does Vietnam have this money?

R&D is in the Education system. People just need to learn it. You need a PhD to do any R&D work. VCP are running by dumb people whose IQ are probably 50 top.

You really don't know how R&D works. It doesn't cost billion of dollars. Maybe millions but not billions. Unless you're talking about starting from ground zero and work your way up (Such as develop technology to harnessing dark energy, develop technology to collect anti-matters, tech to produce a blackhole, quantum computers, bending space? etc). Again, why reinvent the wheel, when the wheel is already invented? 

Benefits of buying tech from developed countries is that Vietnam also gets training, knowledge transfers (however partial). I have no doubt Vietnamese will use all they learn to enhance themselves.

Techs can become outdated and more spending required for upgrades and training. No benefit.

Also it's cheaper than spending so many billions on R&D only to have dud products, you learn from established nations get a sense of what needs to be done, how to do it and be on your own way.

It is not cheaper than R&D. It is not your own tech, you cannot control the tech in it. They have the power to control your tech without you knowing it. 

Reason why Vietnam is asking for US assistance in EastSea, because China is quickly becoming regional hegemon, a united ASEAN can't balance China. Also it's in US interest that they intervene, because China would influence the whole region, transfer wealth and power that is teeter-tooter to the East.

Because Vietnam is too poor at developing a country. US is not interested in intervening in SCS. They are indirectly involved. US doesn't like Communist or Monarchy Systems. This is why US is US. They don't even trust China and Vietnam. Of course, they want their freedom of Navigation. The world will meet and rewrite how freedom of Navigation should layout and this should never happen again.

Vietnam a sovereign country via blood - how many countries still stand that are sovereign, the VCP has done well until now, buying weapons from opposing countries, attract FDI and have have a developing economy.

Ho Chi Minh has done well. VCP is still under pressure for a change. Only better when they fully accept this change then the country should explode with opportunities. Not now. The only country that opposed to sell weapon to Vietnam was US. VCP doesn't deserve full credit for this.


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## Nike

live firing exercise without firing a single bullet let alone missile? 

i would call it maneuver exercise


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## 3Kingdoms

vtnsx said:


> China doesn't help Vietnam develop. It helped Vietnam undeveloped. Look at the previous construction projects built by Chinese contractors. There is Zero food safety, zero work safety, and these are due to the lack understanding of freedom of expression and human rights. I'm not saying that they cannot improve it. It will take someone strong enough to stand up to it and it shouldn't be that way. The list goes on.



So the Hai Duong Thermal Power Plant Project is not helping development? That is just an example. 
With the food safety, this happened also in China and elsewhere; it's nothing but opportunist, don't use one example to punish the many hardworking.



vtnsx said:


> And here you think trade with China is a good thing? lol! Unbelievable. Maybe you need to visit Vietnam. Of course, from VCP's mind, trade with China is a good thing. Why? it brings them money so they can purchase more useless Russian jets, subs, etc. For what? To leave it to rot? lol sure. While leaving Vietnamese citizens eating poison food that are coming from China. VCP doesn't give a hair to its people.



You need arms to nation build. I've been over this.




vtnsx said:


> Beating up citizens for standing up to China. Unable to understand and complete a balance sheet. What do you call it? oh right, INCOMPETENCE! or LACK of EDUCATION. It's really easy to throw a few million lives to perform suicide missions for you. Of course VCP isn't perfect. What is wrong with VCP? Running by a bunch of buffoons. These guys don't believe in Education, Engineer and Science. They believe in lies, dishonor and corruption. Because it is too much work to be Educated and put in the hardwork. It's easier to steal and lie. Arrest/remove people with different opinions to protect their own ignorance so they can be on top. Hmm, does that sounds familiar? A buffoon.



Vietnam has a science program running - only in 2014 when the economy was picking up, it really started to fund science, though the fund is too small. If you don't know home grown scientist from Vietnam win awards here
here. Also VCP developed the Ta Quang Buu Awards for scientist. Vietnamese students do very well, they publish research and findings into international sites.




vtnsx said:


> Are you in business and investing? no? then you're obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Government stability? VCP isn't stable, man. She's PARANOID AS F! It's not stable when VCP can't honor their own words. Unless contracts are protected by legal means and that legal means are being honored by VCP which is then in checks by Vietnamese public, then yes, that is almost stable. You don't understand politics and business, man. Only gangsters would agree with you about corruption is good business.



OK sure your right, so investors poor money into countries where a coup may take place because of weak paranoid Government . What you say is true, no foreign country would invest in Vietnam. At least you know I'm not in business or investing and maybe a gangster.




vtnsx said:


> I don't play video games anymore. And I don't take quotes from video games. I live my own life and I create my own quotes.



Good for you but I've never heard of you or your quotes.




vtnsx said:


> Vietnam is not poor. Just runs by poor minds.





vtnsx said:


> Somethings in governance are not meant to be shared with its citizens, the opinions of those citizens have no weight because they truly don't understand the politics behind them (that includes us overseas).
> 
> Certain things can and certain things should. Not everything should be closed.



Maybe you are right about VCP here, but it's the only governance Vietnam has, you want to usurp power - you have to go through a transition of civil war how long that last is dependent on how fast foreign powers can take over the country.




vtnsx said:


> R&D is in the Education system. People just need to learn it. You need a PhD to do any R&D work. VCP are running by dumb people whose IQ are probably 50 top.
> 
> You really don't know how R&D works. It doesn't cost billion of dollars. Maybe millions but not billions. Unless you're talking about starting from ground zero and work your way up (Such as develop technology to harnessing dark energy, develop technology to collect anti-matters, tech to produce a blackhole, quantum computers, bending space? etc). Again, why reinvent the wheel, when the wheel is already invented?



So a PHD will take care of R&D. So no infrastructure, materials, finance - I'm building suspicion of you.
Be keeping with context please, we was talking about planes and tanks.
I'm not mad at you dude, don't be mad at me we both want whats best for Vietnam


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> live firing exercise without firing a single bullet let alone missile?
> 
> i would call it maneuver exercise




http://vietnamnet.vn/vn/thoi-su/qua...hai-quan-dien-tap-ban-dan-that-tren-bien.html
no launch of cruise missiles from surface warships. nor submarines. they fired at aerial targets at day and night exercise by cannons. missile is expensive. some cost millions of dollar a piece.

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## xiao qi

VCP want to improve Vietnam infrastructure also economy, VCP needs to decrease their corruption, and don't use their untalented nephew to control Vietnam..but I think it is too difficult, They have many complicated relationships each other, Leader of Vietnam isn't Japan leader, isn't Chinese leader, Skin on their face is so thick, they always want to get maximum interests for their self, not for Vietnamese people. Vietnamese will be disappointed


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## Viet

Kanwa Defense Review (Canada): Vietnam is negotiating with Russia on delivery of 4 battalions of S-400 Triumf air defence system. the russia-made toy is capable of intercepting all types of modern air threats, including ballistic and cruise missiles and 5th-generation aircraft. Negotiation can conclude end of 2016 if no major issue exists (or the Chinese intervene and sabotage the deal). with S-400 powerful search radars (range 400 km) and missiles (range 250 km), we can put the entire airspace in the South China Sea under control.

I would love it if we can buy the technology too.

http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/quo...-dang-dam-phan-mua-4-tieu-doan-s-400-3312693/

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## Viet

the Battle of Tsushima (1905)

On February 8 1904, the bilateral relation between Japan and Russia began to deteriorate, following the Russian rejection of a Japanese plan to divide Manchuria and Korea into spheres of influence. a physical confrontation became unavoidable. and the Cam Ranh played a tragic part of the decisive battle. When the combined russian fleet after a long voyage anchored at the Cam ranh bay, seeking to refuel, loading food and water, the vessels were only allowed to stay for a short period by the French authority. the morale of Russian sailors sunk to new low. hungry and tired, the Russian warships headed into the battle. into a disaster.


Russian battleship _Oslyabya_








long voyage for the fleet before stopping at the Cam ranh bay
















March 31,1905. Arrival of Russian warships in the Cam ranh bay








Departing of Japanese warships for Tsushima Strait







*



*



the battle that decides empires.

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## vtnsx

3Kingdoms said:


> So the Hai Duong Thermal Power Plant Project is not helping development? That is just an example.
> With the food safety, this happened also in China and elsewhere; it's nothing but opportunist, don't use one example to punish the many hardworking.
> 
> 
> 
> You need arms to nation build. I've been over this.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam has a science program running - only in 2014 when the economy was picking up, it really started to fund science, though the fund is too small. If you don't know home grown scientist from Vietnam win awards here
> here. Also VCP developed the Ta Quang Buu Awards for scientist. Vietnamese students do very well, they publish research and findings into international sites.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK sure your right, so investors poor money into countries where a coup may take place because of weak paranoid Government . What you say is true, no foreign country would invest in Vietnam. At least you know I'm not in business or investing and maybe a gangster.
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you but I've never heard of you or your quotes.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you are right about VCP here, but it's the only governance Vietnam has, you want to usurp power - you have to go through a transition of civil war how long that last is dependent on how fast foreign powers can take over the country.
> 
> 
> 
> So a PHD will take care of R&D. So no infrastructure, materials, finance - I'm building suspicion of you.
> Be keeping with context please, we was talking about planes and tanks.
> I'm not mad at you dude, don't be mad at me we both want whats best for Vietnam



Haha I'm not mad. But you really don't read between the lines. I don't think you understand it at all. Let me simplify my point. When you have clowns running a country, the results are jokes. It's not easy man. Everything takes time. You need smart, creative, innovative people to build a smart,create, innovative country. This is why it is important for the government to let the people lead innovation and businesses. USA is a perfect example (they aren't prefect either but they are doing a hell lot better than anyone in the world).

Regardless, you need smart, intelligent people to do R&D. Sure, you can hire monkeys to run R&D, the results would be banana peels. Obviously, you need good leadership for that to happen. The monkeys working for VCP aren't the right people/leaders. They eat bananas and throw the peels at people that are smarter than them. These guys are old and outdated and have no education so when they see a smart person, they get paranoid and threatened. The solution for them is to purchase second hand weapons for defense. Because they just don't understand how technology and manufacturing works. So they don't know how to layout the structure. They get fked in the ars trying to hire people to do what they are incompetent. But that's where they get screwed because they just don't know the structure. lol

Anyways, you need real life experience to understand what I'm talking about.

VCP is a joke. People on here from Vietnam would never get it because they have never live or exposed to US's culture. They have no clue about US's history and WWII. Communist education system teaching history are corrupted and biased about the west. My only hope for Vietnam is to elect younger generation with higher level of education so they can better defend the country. Not these old clowns.


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## Carlosa

*India firming up military ties with Vietnam*
By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Jul 02, 2016, 01.09 AM IST

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ry-ties-with-vietnam/articleshow/53014998.cms

NEW DELHI: India is firming up several military contracts with Vietnam— with progress on at least two major naval projects — weeks ahead of a crucial verdict in the Hague on Beijing's territorial claims in the South China Sea. 

Besides renewed discussions on the Brahmos missile system — a versatile missile that can operate both as a ship killer and a shoreattack weapon — two projects that will add more firepower to Vietnam People's Navy are now in the final stages. 

India is set to assist Vietnam in weaponising two of its Petya class frigates for an anti-submarine role. The frigates, which were procured from Russia, have been operating with reduced capabilities and Vietnam is keen to get them modernised to meet the challenging requirements its navy faces in the region. 

Sources have told ET that the package to upgrade the ships would include a new sonar system , torpedo launchers, a fire control system and a new antisubmarine rocket launcher system. While Vietnam has a total of five Petya class frigates, the initial order is to upgrade two and a larger contract may come up at a later stage. The initial contract is expected to be close to Rs 200 crore. 

Vietnam is also set to get at least 10 new patrol boats from India under the line of credit route. Sources said that a contract for at least 10 new interceptor craft to be built by L&T is in the pipeline and is expected to be finalised shortly. 

The interceptor craft, a version of which is also being used by the Indian Coast Guard, are designed to meet coastal surveillance and security requirements. The contract, valued at around Rs 600 crore, could be inked within the next three months. 

Besides, India and Vietnam have had 'fruitful' discussions on the possible sale of high-speed heavy weight torpedo 'Varunastra', which has recently been inducted into the Indian Navy as well. India is seeking to export the torpedo — designed for both anti-submarine and surface ships operations — and Vietnam is a lead contender. 

Senior defence ministry officials told ET that the 'Varunastra' was discussed at length during the visit of defence minister Manohar Parrikarto Vietnam in June. "They are certainly interested in the torpedo. In the recent visit they showed interest in acquiring it as they have a large demand for such torpedoes. Now that it has been inducted into the Indian Navy, we will take this forward," a senior defence ministry official who was part of the Indian delegation told ET.

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## Viet

the Navy seriously needs to increase the number of surface warships. with real big warships as frigate or destroyer. the current 5 Petya class light frigates are pretty old. very OLD. built in the USSR in the 1960s. from design to weaponry aboard., the ships won´t survive any sea modern battle today. the news India offers to upgrade the Petya is even from last year.

http://www.janes.com/article/55748/bharat-larsen-toubro-make-joint-bid-for-vietnam-s-frigate-upgrade

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## Viet

*Roscosmos to expand cooperation with Vietnam*
June 29, 2016 Alexander Korablinov, RBTH
MoU signed with the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology.






The memorandum calls for expanding cooperation in outer space exploration. Source: Roscosmos 


The Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos) has signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology.

The MoU calls for expanding cooperation in outer space exploration, satellite positioning and satellite launch services, and research, Roscosmos said in a press release on June 28.

Roscosmos and the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology will set up a joint group on outer space cooperation to implement joint projects.

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## Viet

*23 September 1966*

America deployed the first of M105 (175mm) artillery battalions, heading to Da Nang following the escalation of the Vietnam war.













































and the big brother M110 and M115 howitzer (203mm) capable firing nuclear weapons. in the end phase of the wars, the French and the United States were considering nuclear weapons to avoid the defeats. Luckily it never came.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the Navy seriously needs to increase the number of surface warships. with real big warships as frigate or destroyer. the current 5 Petya class light frigates are pretty old. very OLD. built in the USSR in the 1960s. from design to weaponry aboard., the ships won´t survive any sea modern battle today. the news India offers to upgrade the Petya is even from last year.
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/55748/bharat-larsen-toubro-make-joint-bid-for-vietnam-s-frigate-upgrade



I was thinking the same thing, I'm not sure is worth it to upgrade such an old ship when they can buy new ships from India quite cheap.


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## Viet

M10


Carlosa said:


> I was thinking the same thing, I'm not sure is worth it to upgrade such an old ship when they can buy new ships from India quite cheap.


It is more reasonable to buy or build modern warships than upgrading the Petya. If cheap we can buy from India why not. But if upgrade necessary why can't we do ourselves but need India? I don't understand our people. India assembles submarines, frigates and destroyers, while we nothing. Very disappointing.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> M10
> It is more reasonable to buy or build modern warships than upgrading the Petya. If cheap we can buy from India why not. But if upgrade necessary why can't we do ourselves but need India? I don't understand our people. India assembles submarines, frigates and destroyers, while we nothing. Very disappointing.



I hear you, feel the same, its almost like if they are afraid to try or they feel that they are not capable or the typical vietnamese feeling that "imported is always better than made in Vietnam". Viettel on the other hand, they showed what they can do when given the chance. I think the problem is the mindset of those higher ups that make the decisions.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I hear you, feel the same, its almost like if they are afraid to try or they feel that they are not capable or the typical vietnamese feeling that "imported is always better than made in Vietnam". Viettel on the other hand, they showed what they can do when given the chance. I think the problem is the mindset of those higher ups that make the decisions.


bro it is the mindset of vietnamese people in general, not only in the army leadership. Vietnam under the Nguyen for example had a very active military complex, having a respectable number of warships. probably the largest in the region. the naval shipyard Ba Son goes back to that period. basically our army had been modelled to tackle China threat, mostly focusing how to stop chinese aggression. but when a foreign great power, the French launched invasion of Vietnam, we suffered a total blow. everybody suddently noticed how backward our warships were built and how weak military doctrine were based upon. and since then, there is a loss of trust to our equippments. hardly to overcome. or may take some time to overcome.

time has changed since then, hasn´t it?

true, Viettel is a prime exampe what we can achieve. another example is FPT Corps, it has very capable people too.

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## Viet

courtesy to @fsayed

https://defence.pk/threads/india-fi...vietnam-will-offer-varunastra-torpedo.437516/

India offers heavy weight torpedo Varunastra. an India made anti submarine torpedo. weight 1.25 tons, 250 kg warhead, top speed 40 knots, unit cost $1.77 million, operational range 40 km (25 mi). maximum depth 400 metres (1,300 ft), wire-guided, active-passive acoustic homing. According to India media, the ‘Varunastra’ was discussed at length during the visit of defence minister Manohar Parrikar to Vietnam in June.

what the Navy needs is to acquire submarine hunter airplanes and platforms to launch such heavy torpedo. it may be the best solution if we come with brand-new built multirole surface warships. and the hunting season can begin.

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## AViet

vtnsx said:


> *VCP is a joke.* People on here from Vietnam would never get it because *they have never live or exposed to US's culture. They have no clue about US's history and WWII*. Communist education system teaching history are corrupted and biased about the west. My only hope for Vietnam is to elect younger generation with higher level of education so they can better defend the country. Not these old clowns.



Vntsx, I understand that your beloved US collapse is coming and you are seeing it. But no need to behave so desperately and attack the poor Vietnamese government in every posts. It is not a good tactics.


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## xiao qi

AViet said:


> Vntsx, I understand that your beloved US collapse is coming and you are seeing it. But no need to behave so desperately and attack the poor Vietnamese government in every posts. It is not a good tactics.


" poor vietnamese government" haha i know you are patriot men, dude, but let open your eyes and see everything clearly. vietnamese government is living on poor peoples , they r not poor, contrast, they r very rich, they have luxury car, villa. their son was sent in aboard, today, i see a miserable old men who was stolen 2 million by a yellow dog ( you know it meaning ) this money, he must earn for haft of a month, lol, why did u save for vietnamese communist, did u get interests from them? u say like u are blind, i wonder you actually care to poor vietnamese :L

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## 3Kingdoms

Vietnamese engineer sails minisub at sea after passing Navy tests





Two years after failing to get official approval for his first mini submarine, a Vietnamese engineer Sunday sailed his second with approval from the Ministry of Defense.
Nguyen Quoc Hoa, director of a mechanical firm in Thai Binh Province, piloted the sub himself and told _Thanh Nien_ on the phone that it was a successful trip.
The vessel, named Hoang Sa after Vietnam’s Paracel archipelago in the East Sea, was approved by a ministry committee late last month.
Hoa first made a mini-sub in 2013 and named it Truong Sa for the Spratly Islands. He presented it publicly several times, but never received recognition from the authorities.
The second was made last year and is said to be a big improvement with its smaller size and more functions.
The nine-ton steel sub can travel at 15 nautical miles per hour, carry two people and remain as deep as 50 meters for three days.
Hoa refused to reveal its cost.
*“I just want to prove that Vietnamese have the smartness and capacity to make such things. I don’t care much about the cost since I can borrow money if necessary as long as I can deliver a sub made in Vietnam.”*
Hoa is the second Vietnamese to make mini submarines.
Phan Boi Tran, an engineer who worked for the French submarine firm Comex for years, returned home in 2006 and began to work on his own mini subs.
Tran has got large orders from Malaysia and Thailand for tourism though his subs have not received a patent in Vietnam after his application was turned down.

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## Viet

after 3 years of development, field trials for a new domestic made 6 barreled Gatling gun designed for surface warships











































the gun design is quite similar to the russian made AK-630 CIWS.

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## Nilgiri

Great and very interesting thread (I just finished reading the latest pages of it).

Specially enjoyed @Viet and @Carlosa inputs.

I hope to see more India-Vietnam cooperation in the coming years. 

Can you guys tell me the status of Cam Ranh Bay (Last I heard Russians disagreed with the lease price that Vietnam wanted and now its sitting mostly idle)? 

I potentially see Indian navy basing some assets there in the future...or even leasing it completely maybe.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> after 3 years of development, field trials for a new domestic made 6 barreled Gatling gun designed for surface warships
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> the gun design is quite similar to the russian made AK-630 CIWS.



Finally some good news about new product development. I guess there is no more need to buy the license to produce the AK-630M. I know VN was trying to buy it and also for the 76mm gun AK-176M, maybe the terms were expensive or Russia didn't want to give the license.



Nilgiri said:


> Great and very interesting thread (I just finished reading the latest pages of it).
> 
> Specially enjoyed @Viet and @Carlosa inputs.
> 
> I hope to see more India-Vietnam cooperation in the coming years.
> 
> Can you guys tell me the status of Cam Ranh Bay (Last I heard Russians disagreed with the lease price that Vietnam wanted and now its sitting mostly idle)?
> 
> I potentially see Indian navy basing some assets there in the future...or even leasing it completely maybe.



Dhanyavaad Indian friend, we love India here (at least I do).

Yes, I believe there will be a lot of cooperation with India and we should see the results soon. I expect Brahmos, some fast patrol boats and probably some OPVs. Hopefully a frigate based on INS Kamorta and quite a few more things.

Myself, I don't have information about the lease price for Cam Ranh Bay, but that part of the port, the so called international port seems to be getting ready for business. I don't think it will be idle. I do expect to see temporary deployments of Indian ships there and probably American ships too. A permanent deployment would be most welcome. 

Russians often try to get you for as much as they can get away with when selling arms to Vietnam, so I guess Vietnam is paying back the same way, its probably just a matter of further negotiation, plus VN is not too happy about Russian support for China's position in SCS.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> Dhanyavaad Indian friend, we love India here (at least I do).



Are you Vietnamese guy living in Spain or other way around? You seem to be well versed in military matters.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, I believe there will be a lot of cooperation with India and we should see the results soon. I expect Brahmos, some fast patrol boats and probably some OPVs. Hopefully a frigate based on INS Kamorta and quite a few more things.



Yes these are good welcome developments I have been seeing/following too. I only noticed now they are here in this thread as well...(I only saw their counterparts in the Indian defence section). I would like to see Tejas fly under Viet Air Force one day as well....as well as see India buy Viet defence goods when the sector matures more (we buy from some of our neighbours like Sri Lanka now - stuff like interceptor boats and so on... so the demand for low cost bang for the buck products from the rest of friendly developing world will only increase in future I think).



Carlosa said:


> Myself, I don't have information about the lease price for Cam Ranh Bay, but that part of the port, the so called international port seems to be getting ready for business. I don't think it will be idle. I do expect to see temporary deployments of Indian ships there and probably American ships too. A permanent deployment would be most welcome.



Ok great. I think both Cam Ranh and Subic bay in PH will see much more military based activity (local and foreign) in the coming years....in addition to their commercial enterprise.



Carlosa said:


> Russians often try to get you for as much as they can get away with when selling arms to Vietnam, so I guess Vietnam is paying back the same way, its probably just a matter of further negotiation, plus VN is not too happy about Russian support for China's position in SCS.



From what I understood they just didnt see the benefit at the price Vietnam asked sometime in the 90s (I think during Russian Yeltsin administration)...and Cam Ranh bay was vacated by them. That was when Russia was at its worst financial shape since the USSR breakup recovery was just starting. Now they got the funding for it...but I doubt they will return any time soon seeing that they dont want to anger China like you said. But I am sure India will be interested in something soon or in the future (when Indian navy will be much larger and have larger foreign stationing requirements). I guess we will have to wait and see.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Are you Vietnamese guy living in Spain or other way around? You seem to be well versed in military matters..



The other way around, I'm Spanish (also ethnic Spanish) living in Vietnam.

I'm totally amateur when it comes to military things, this is just a hobby of mine, but I had this hobby for many years and I like to read about this and I like to analyze things and make my own opinions; sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.



Nilgiri said:


> From what I understood they just didnt see the benefit at the price Vietnam asked sometime in the 90s (I think during Russian Yeltsin administration)...and Cam Ranh bay was vacated by them. That was when Russia was at its worst financial shape since the USSR breakup recovery was just starting. Now they got the funding for it...but I doubt they will return any time soon seeing that they dont want to anger China like you said. But I am sure India will be interested in something soon or in the future (when Indian navy will be much larger and have larger foreign stationing requirements). I guess we will have to wait and see.



Oh the pricing issue that you are talking about is from the 90's? That's history now. I don't think there is much of an issue now because Russia is very involved in the development of that project and I think one area there will be just for them. As far as I know, they do plan to use it regardless of what China thinks. They need a logistical outpost there.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> The other war way around, I'm Spanish (also ethnic Spanish) living in Vietnam.
> 
> I'm totally amateur when it comes to military things, this is just a hobby of mine, but I had this hobby for many years and I like to read about this and I like to analyze things and make my own opinions; sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong.



Thats nice. Whats it like living in Vietnam? Are you in Hanoi or Saigon or elsewhere? Vietnam has always fascinated me.



Carlosa said:


> Oh the pricing issue that you are talking about is from the 90's? That's history now. I don't think there is much of an issue now because Russia is very involved in the development of that project and I think one area there will be just for them. As far as I know, they do plan to use it regardless of what China thinks. They need a logistical outpost there.



Oh ok, thats good to know! Yes my info is somewhat dated for sure.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> I would like to see Tejas fly under Viet Air Force one day as well....as well as see India buy Viet defence goods when the sector matures more (we buy from some of our neighbours like Sri Lanka now - stuff like interceptor boats and so on... so the demand for low cost bang for the buck products from the rest of friendly developing world will only increase in future I think)..



The Tejas would be a good replacement for the Mig-21 and at the right price. I think its very possible once the Tejas matures a bit more.

The truth is, there are a lot of Indian products that Vietnam can use.



Nilgiri said:


> Thats nice. Whats it like living in Vietnam? Are you in Hanoi or Saigon or elsewhere? Vietnam has always fascinated me..



I live in Danang, a beach city in central Vietnam. I like it here. Its quite nice here, not crowded or polluted like HCMC or Saigon. Actually, the environment and physical beauty of the place is really nice. Cheap, good food and many friendly people. Some things require some adaptation, other things are first class. Google it and come over some time. 

Many foreigners are moving to Danang these days, westerners, a lot of Koreans, etc.



Nilgiri said:


> Thats nice. Whats it like living in Vietnam? Are you in Hanoi or Saigon or elsewhere? Vietnam has always fascinated me..



I can say the same about India, I like many things there. I was in India once, but many years ago, its time for an update trip.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Finally some good news about new product development. I guess there is no more need to buy the license to produce the AK-630M. I know VN was trying to buy it and also for the 76mm gun AK-176M, maybe the terms were expensive or Russia didn't want to give the license.
> 
> Russians often try to get you for as much as they can get away with when selling arms to Vietnam, so I guess Vietnam is paying back the same way, its probably just a matter of further negotiation, plus VN is not too happy about Russian support for China's position in SCS.


yes we need more domestic development, just buying things is boring and does not bring us any further down the road. true, as Russia leans today on China, for money, investments and many things more. I expert our relationship to the bear to become complicate. also, just reading a report saying we are testing an unmanned small high-speed patrol vessel, armed by automatic 12.7 mm cannon. the boat control and firing system appears to have been developed by Viettel. I will post it later after reading more into it.



Nilgiri said:


> Great and very interesting thread (I just finished reading the latest pages of it).
> 
> Specially enjoyed @Viet and @Carlosa inputs.
> 
> I hope to see more India-Vietnam cooperation in the coming years.
> 
> Can you guys tell me the status of Cam Ranh Bay (Last I heard Russians disagreed with the lease price that Vietnam wanted and now its sitting mostly idle)?
> 
> I potentially see Indian navy basing some assets there in the future...or even leasing it completely maybe.


basically the Cam Ranh bay is divided into two parts: one belongs to the Navy, also the home of our submarine fleet. this part lies deep in the inner side of the bay. very well protected against enemy threats. the outer part is called Cam ranh International Port and being offered for foreign navies for maintenance, repair, accommodation, refuel, food. and even military protection.

yes VN offers Russia a permanent base in the outer part of the bay. Russia is considering the offer, but she is not ready yet to take it, at least not for now. there are some political impacts to the region she needs to evaluate, especially how China will react.


this is Cam ranh International Port, capable to host all types of warships, submarines and aircraft carriers.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yes we need more domestic development, just buying things is boring and does not bring us any further down the road. true, as Russia leans today on China, for money, investments and many things more. I expert our relationship to the bear to become complicate. also, just reading a report saying we are testing an unmanned small high-speed patrol vessel, armed by automatic 12.7 mm cannon. the boat control and firing system appears to have been developed by Viettel. I will post it later after reading more into it.



Definitely. I saw the article about the remote operated boat in the Viet press (I read it through Google translate and is not good enough to post it). Looks interesting. Viettel is the shining star of the defense industry. I think they should place most of the defence manufacturing and research under Viettel hands and everything would move faster and be better.



Viet said:


> VN offers Russia a permanent base in the outer part of the bay. Russia is considering the offer, but she is not ready yet to take it, at least not for now. there are some political impacts to the region she needs to evaluate, especially how China will react.



Are you sure that Russia have not made a decision to utilize the port? I thought it was a joint project and they were on board.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Are you sure that Russia have not made a decision to utilize the port? I thought it was a joint project and they were on board.


from what I know, Russia is our partner in upgrading the bay. the offer to Russia to have a permanent base in the outer part of the bay is on the table. she can take it. or everything remains at status quo: Russia has the special privilege, her warships can dock the bay at any time she needs to.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> from what I know, Russia is our partner in upgrading the bay. the offer to Russia to have a permanent base in the outer part of the bay is on the table. she can take it. or everything remains at status quo: Russia has the special privilege, her warships can dock the bay at any time she needs to.



Ok, well, its a shame if they don't take it.



Viet said:


> from what I know, Russia is our partner in upgrading the bay. the offer to Russia to have a permanent base in the outer part of the bay is on the table. she can take it. or everything remains at status quo: Russia has the special privilege, her warships can dock the bay at any time she needs to.



It would be nice for Russia, India and USA, for each one of them to have their exclusive area in Cam Ranh Bay.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> It would be nice for Russia, India and USA, for each one of them to have their exclusive area in Cam Ranh Bay.



We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe



Well, we place the Indian base in between the other two and that should do it. 



Nilgiri said:


> We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe



Is there any plan for an upgraded version of the Talwar class coming up? I think that would be a nice, affordable ship for Vietnam. Upgraded with Barak 8 and MF/Star of course. A second Brahmos VLS would be nice too, the ship is big enough for 16 of them.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ok, well, its a shame if they don't take it.


yes, if Russia seriously wants to return to the status of a great military power, earning respects from others, she should take the offer, adapting a Russian version of pivot to Asia by increasing the naval presence in the strategic waterways, especially the South China Sea. as said, the offer is on the table.

https://rbth.com/news/2016/05/18/vietnam-open-to-russian-return-to-cam-ranh-bay_594025

unfortunately the current Russia pacific fleet is just a shadow of the past. so her economy. she needs to weigh costs, risks, benefits before taking the chance.








Nilgiri said:


> We get along with the other 2, but I dont think they will get along with each other in close proximity hehe


why not. I think it is very possible to have the US, Russia and India bases in the bay. the more people come to the party, the better is the mood. or in the case of the bay, the more lease money we get. have you seen how we reclaimed land for the bay? if we have more money, we can reclaim more land.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> Is there any plan for an upgraded version of the Talwar class coming up? I think that would be a nice, affordable ship for Vietnam. Upgraded with Barak 8 and MF/Star of course. A second Brahmos VLS would be nice too, the ship is big enough for 16 of them.



I have not heard about any forthcoming upgrade plans in the short term.

I do know that 3 Talwar-related ships are sitting in Russia without powerplants (because of the Ukraine conflict) and that India has expressed on and off interest in acquiring these (since Ukraine will supply India the Gas turbines). The thing is according to some other sources, India wants to build them from scratch at its own shipyards. If thats the case, maybe Vietnam can buy these admiral-grigorovich frigates?:






3 hulls are up for grabs right now I think. You basically have to do the powerplant integration (India can do that if Vietnam wants) and add and integrate whatever weapons suite you want (again India can do that if needed). Since India has experience with the Barak 8 and MF/Star, that can be looked at with this platform too (though the MF/Star integration may be an issue regarding any structural modifications that may needed to the ship deck). Other options are available too I would assume so Vietnam can optimise as it sees fit. Russia-India can maybe provide a line of credit as well for the whole deal if needed.

It can be a juicy deal clincher for the Russian Cam Ranh Bay lease as well I think.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> I have not heard about any forthcoming upgrade plans in the short term.
> 
> I do know that 3 Talwar-related ships are sitting in Russia without powerplants (because of the Ukraine conflict) and that India has expressed on and off interest in acquiring these (since Ukraine will supply India the Gas turbines). The thing is according to some other sources, India wants to build them from scratch at its own shipyards. If thats the case, maybe Vietnam can buy these admiral-grigorovich frigates?:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 hulls are up for grabs right now I think. You basically have to do the powerplant integration (India can do that if Vietnam wants) and add and integrate whatever weapons suite you want (again India can do that if needed). Since India has experience with the Barak 8 and MF/Star, that can be looked at with this platform too (though the MF/Star integration may be an issue regarding any structural modifications that may needed to the ship deck). Other options are available too I would assume so Vietnam can optimise as it sees fit. Russia-India can maybe provide a line of credit as well for the whole deal if needed.
> 
> It can be a juicy deal clincher for the Russian Cam Ranh Bay lease as well I think.



Yes, I've heard about those 3 Russian ships too. I think that's a natural deal for India first of all. That Gregorovich class ships are already an upgrade over the Talwar class and with Barak 8 and MF/Star, that would be a very nice package. Lets see who gets them.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> I have not heard about any forthcoming upgrade plans in the short term.
> 
> I do know that 3 Talwar-related ships are sitting in Russia without powerplants (because of the Ukraine conflict) and that India has expressed on and off interest in acquiring these (since Ukraine will supply India the Gas turbines). The thing is according to some other sources, India wants to build them from scratch at its own shipyards. If thats the case, maybe Vietnam can buy these admiral-grigorovich frigates?:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 hulls are up for grabs right now I think. You basically have to do the powerplant integration (India can do that if Vietnam wants) and add and integrate whatever weapons suite you want (again India can do that if needed). Since India has experience with the Barak 8 and MF/Star, that can be looked at with this platform too (though the MF/Star integration may be an issue regarding any structural modifications that may needed to the ship deck). Other options are available too I would assume so Vietnam can optimise as it sees fit. Russia-India can maybe provide a line of credit as well for the whole deal if needed.
> 
> It can be a juicy deal clincher for the Russian Cam Ranh Bay lease as well I think.


Much better if seeing joint development and production between our nations in shipbuilding. Our new Ba Son shipyard will be ready in 2-3 years. I hope our people shrug off hesitation.

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## Carlosa

Latest update on the reclamation on Spratly island:











This is the way it should look when completed

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> Latest update on the reclamation on Spratly island:
> 
> View attachment 315835
> 
> 
> View attachment 315836
> 
> 
> This is the way it should look when completed
> View attachment 315838



This is a viet one?


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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> This is a viet one?



Yes.

Another one recently reclaimed, this one is West London Reef:








Sin Cowe Island (Dao Sinh Ton):

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Latest update on the reclamation on Spratly island:
> 
> View attachment 315835
> 
> 
> View attachment 315836
> 
> 
> This is the way it should look when completed
> View attachment 315838


looks the island size will double when completed, with a runway long enough for Su-30.
I expect we will base a pair of fighter jet there, coming along with air-defence missiles.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> looks the island size will double when completed, with a runway long enough for Su-30.
> I expect we will base a pair of fighter jet there, coming along with air-defence missiles.



I very much doubt that there will be fighter jets based there, the marine environment is deadly for them, they require a lot of support which makes no sense to have in such an small island and they would be sitting ducks in case of a surprise chinese attack. And still, they would be outnumbered by the chinese jets based on Fiery Cross.

The runway makes sense for bigger aircraft like a C-295 or a C-130 and comes handy if a SU-30 needs to do an emergency landing. I don't expect more than that.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I very much doubt that there will be fighter jets based there, the marine environment is deadly for them, they require a lot of support which makes no sense to have in such an small island and they would be sitting ducks in case of a surprise chinese attack. And still, they would be outnumbered by the chinese jets based on Fiery Cross.
> 
> The runway makes sense for bigger aircraft like a C-295 or a C-130 and comes handy if a SU-30 needs to do an emergency landing. I don't expect more than that.


hmmm...how building hardened shelter for the jets and basing a battery of S-300 missile and our bread and butter S-125 Pechora? both air defence systems will stop any short, medium and long range aerial threats.

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## Farhan Bohra

The Weapon Package that Offered to Vietnam for Project 159 Upgrade

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> The Weapon Package that Offered to Vietnam for Project 159 Upgrade



Sundar !!!!! (beautiful) bro. Looks great, I just don't understand the logic of installing such a great package in a 50 year old hull, but it would be nice to have those weapon systems.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> hmmm...how building hardened shelter for the jets and basing a battery of S-300 missile and our bread and butter S-125 Pechora? both air defence systems will stop any short, medium and long range aerial threats.



Having hangars is mandatory if you are going to base aircraft there, but look at the size of that island, its way too small for that and S-300 also? I don't see it bro, you need to have a much bigger island. You can't defend such an small island effectively from all types of threats including amphibious assault, etc. They can hit the island with MLRS rocket launchers (300 km range) based on Quarteron reef. How do you defend from that? Its easy to saturate the defenses of such an small place.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> hmmm...how building hardened shelter for the jets and basing a battery of S-300 missile and our bread and butter S-125 Pechora? both air defence systems will stop any short, medium and long range aerial threats.



The following is the IAF's S-125 upgrade program. Maybe you find this interesting.






A much welcome spinoff from the DRDO’s two-decade long R & D activities for the Akash-1 MR-SAM programme has now resulted in the development of an indigenous upgrade package for the Indian Air Force (IAF) remaining S-125 Pechora SAM systems that will extend their service-lives by another 12 years.

Restricted tenders worth US$272 million to upgrade 16 of the original 30 squadrons of the IAF’s S-125 Pechora SAM systems under the ‘Make in India’ programme were floated in May 2016 and were sent to TATA Power SED, Larsen & Toubro, Reliance Defence, Offset India Solutions, Amertec Systems Pvt Ltd, Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL), Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) and ECIL. While the V-601 missiles will be refurbished by BDL with the help of Russia’s OJSC Concern Almaz-Antey, the existing analogue fire-contol systems will be fully digitised by Indian OEMs, following which they will be integrated by BEL with the IAF’s IACCCS network. 






BEL will also deliver the Rohini S-band 3-D CARs and related motorized command-and-control posts that will replace the older P-19 early-warning radars. Amertec Systems Pvt Ltd will supply the digitised LRUs and related ATEs for the upgraded SNR-125 pulse-Doppler tracking, fire-control and guidance radars. Deliveries will begin 42 months after contract signature.











However, this upgrade contract does not in any way postpone or stall the IAF’s plans for procuring 18 squadrons of Barak-8 MR-SAMs and LR-SAMs.






The Indian Air Force’s S-125 Neva (export name Pechora) uses the V-601 (or 5V27) missile has a length of 6.09 metres, a wingspan of 2.2 metres and a body diameter of 0.375 metres. This missile weighs 953kg at launch, and has a 70kg warhead containing 33kg of HE and 4,500 fragments. The minimum range is 3.5km, and the maximum is 25km. The intercept altitudes are between 100 metres and 18km. Radars used for the original S-125 included the following:






P-15M(2) TROPA 1RL13 C-band target acquisition radar, which comprised a single antenna on a tethered latticework mast. It was employed to improve low altitude coverage, but also to permit use of the radar in heavily forested terrain where the height of the foliage canopy exceeded the height of the antenna phase centre in the P-15. The P-19 DANUBE 1RL134 was the improved 2-D UHF follow-on to the P-15 with a range of improvements. 







SNR-125 I/D-band tracking, fire-control and guidance radar, which uses a pair of fixed scanned trough antennas to generate flapping fan shaped beams, but the design is inherently SORO with a separate transmit antenna mounted between the characteristic chevron arrangement of trough antennas. Optical adjunct tracking using the 9Sh33A Karat 2 television telescope has been installed on later variants, initially the SNR-125M1. The antenna at the top of the turret is used for the low power missile FMCW uplink channels. The antennae functions are, respectively:






*** UV-10: Transmit for target and missile tracking, Transmit/Receive for rangefinding, Transmit/Receive for initial target acquisition, Receive for clutter cancelling channel. The boom mounts a cluster of feed horns, including a rotating scanning feed, each producing unique mainlobes. The scanned acquisition beam mainlobe is 1° wide and swept through a 15° arc in elevation at 25 Hz, the mainlobe for target tracking, transmit and rangefinding receive is 10° wide.

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## Farhan Bohra

* UV11 F1 and F2: Receive antennas for target and missile transponder beacon tracking. These produce 1° x 15° fan shaped mainlobes which sweep through a 15° arc.





*** UV-12: Missile uplink antenna for the FMCW 12 Watt command link.







The SNR-125 was designed to acquire targets using only bearing and range inputs from an external 2-D acquisition radar, such as a P-12/18 or P-15M. When acquiring a target, the radar head is rotated to the target bearing and the UV-10 antenna scanning feed engaged to produce a 1° wide pencil-beam swept in elevation. Once the target is acquired the radar is switched into tracking mode, using the UV-10 antenna to transmit, the UV-10 to receive for ranging, and the scanning UV-11 chevron receive antennas for angle tracking. The radar head is mechanically steered in azimuth and elevation to maintain track. The radar provides manual tracking, automatic tracking and television angle tracking modes. The system provides five missile guidance control laws, TT (CLOS), PS, MV (LoAlt), K (surface target attack) and DKM (ballistic). Three missile uplink signals are employed, K1 and K2 for pitch/yaw steering, and K3 for fuse control. Russian doctrine in the presence of heavy jamming was often to cease emitting and use the scanning receiver to effect angle tracking of the jammer, acquire the target with the TV telescope, and perform a range unknown missile shot against the jammer in CLOS mode. Due to the addition of a clutter canceller and analogue MTI circuits, the SNR-125 has significantly better clutter rejection performance. Cited low altitude capability is against targets as low as 20 metres (~60 feet AGL).





PRV-11 Vershina E-band height-finder radar. 






The Indian Army’s 48 motorised 9K33 OSA-AKM SHORADS have since 2006 been upgraded by Poland’s Wojskowe Zakłady Uzbrojenia SA, with BDL refurbishing the 9M33M3 missiles with the help of Russia’s JSC Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant KUPOL subsidiary ofOJSC Concern Almaz-Antey.








Carlosa said:


> Sundar !!!!! (beautiful) bro. Looks great, I just don't understand the logic of installing such a great package in a 50 year old hull, but it would be nice to have those weapon systems.



I dont know but if enough life is remaining in the hull, then its worth upgrading. 

This is not about new and old. During Gulf war, USS Missouri (a ww2 vintage) was firing Tomahawk. Nobody in Baath Party knows that in receiving end that who firing at them, a newly built destroyer _Arleigh Burke_ class or USS Missouri.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> The following is the IAF's S-125 upgrade program. Maybe you find this interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A much welcome spinoff from the DRDO’s two-decade long R & D activities for the Akash-1 MR-SAM programme has now resulted in the development of an indigenous upgrade package for the Indian Air Force (IAF) remaining S-125 Pechora SAM systems that will extend their service-lives by another 12 years.
> 
> Restricted tenders worth US$272 million to upgrade 16 of the original 30 squadrons of the IAF’s S-125 Pechora SAM systems under the ‘Make in India’ programme were floated in May 2016 and were sent to TATA Power SED, Larsen & Toubro, Reliance Defence, Offset India Solutions, Amertec Systems Pvt Ltd, Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL), Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) and ECIL. While the V-601 missiles will be refurbished by BDL with the help of Russia’s OJSC Concern Almaz-Antey, the existing analogue fire-contol systems will be fully digitised by Indian OEMs, following which they will be integrated by BEL with the IAF’s IACCCS network.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEL will also deliver the Rohini S-band 3-D CARs and related motorized command-and-control posts that will replace the older P-19 early-warning radars. Amertec Systems Pvt Ltd will supply the digitised LRUs and related ATEs for the upgraded SNR-125 pulse-Doppler tracking, fire-control and guidance radars. Deliveries will begin 42 months after contract signature.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, this upgrade contract does not in any way postpone or stall the IAF’s plans for procuring 18 squadrons of Barak-8 MR-SAMs and LR-SAMs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Indian Air Force’s S-125 Neva (export name Pechora) uses the V-601 (or 5V27) missile has a length of 6.09 metres, a wingspan of 2.2 metres and a body diameter of 0.375 metres. This missile weighs 953kg at launch, and has a 70kg warhead containing 33kg of HE and 4,500 fragments. The minimum range is 3.5km, and the maximum is 25km. The intercept altitudes are between 100 metres and 18km. Radars used for the original S-125 included the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P-15M(2) TROPA 1RL13 C-band target acquisition radar, which comprised a single antenna on a tethered latticework mast. It was employed to improve low altitude coverage, but also to permit use of the radar in heavily forested terrain where the height of the foliage canopy exceeded the height of the antenna phase centre in the P-15. The P-19 DANUBE 1RL134 was the improved 2-D UHF follow-on to the P-15 with a range of improvements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SNR-125 I/D-band tracking, fire-control and guidance radar, which uses a pair of fixed scanned trough antennas to generate flapping fan shaped beams, but the design is inherently SORO with a separate transmit antenna mounted between the characteristic chevron arrangement of trough antennas. Optical adjunct tracking using the 9Sh33A Karat 2 television telescope has been installed on later variants, initially the SNR-125M1. The antenna at the top of the turret is used for the low power missile FMCW uplink channels. The antennae functions are, respectively:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *** UV-10: Transmit for target and missile tracking, Transmit/Receive for rangefinding, Transmit/Receive for initial target acquisition, Receive for clutter cancelling channel. The boom mounts a cluster of feed horns, including a rotating scanning feed, each producing unique mainlobes. The scanned acquisition beam mainlobe is 1° wide and swept through a 15° arc in elevation at 25 Hz, the mainlobe for target tracking, transmit and rangefinding receive is 10° wide.



Very nice. Vietnam is doing the upgrade from Belarus, the Pechora-2TM.

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## Viet

here are some details I got from the report about the recent product, with the goal of producing unmanned armed gun boats for high risk missions.

what we need: taking the domestic made 12.7 mm rifle. specs: manufactured by Z111 factory, weight 12.5 kg, bullet caliber 12.7x108 mm, effective range 1,200 m, magazine with 5 bullets.






installing the 12.7mm rifle on a remote controlled platform, here test firing






Putting the rifle system on a vessel, such as this small one. Look: nobody drives the boat!






because the vessel is controlled by a computer. camera aboard transmits live images to the computer, at a distance of 15 km.

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## Carlosa

I've found these drawings online for a possible upgrade of the Petya ships, but I don't know if this is for real or its just someone's fantasy dream. They show 2 different types of upgrades; in one of them, there is whole new superstructure.

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## vtnsx

AViet said:


> Vntsx, I understand that your beloved US collapse is coming and you are seeing it. But no need to behave so desperately and attack the poor Vietnamese government in every posts. It is not a good tactics.



Collapsing? What you live in USA and you know everything? I'm seeing it? ahhaha you're clueless. VCP is not poor, but poor thinking. Your criticism of the US doesn't apply to its current situation. You're just an emotional & delusional person and doesn't understand reality. Before attacking me, you should go read what I said in my previous comments. I do what I want. This is why communist people like you will never get it. You're completely brainwashed and *VCP doesn't allow you to think and believe your own way. *

Now, I understand why @William Hung and other members think you're weird. Because your opinions are based on your pride & emotions when talking to one of us. When one of us say anything about your pride, it hurts your feelings. You feel angry and want to defend your pride & emotions. So you would *SAY & DO* whatever to take back your pride & emotions to feel good about yourself. This is why your opinions are biased and incorrect. This is why you're similar to some of the Chinese members on here. *You are insecure*. The people who are insecure are usually without friends or lacking social skills.

My suggestion to you is QUIT being a CRYBABY and grow up and be a real man and think for yourself rather than believing everything you read on Vietnamese/Chinese/USA News Paper.

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## Viet

vtnsx, aviet: how about you both go a boxing room and fight? how about contributing into this thread?
I get bored by your bashing either against each other or one other favorite regimes.


Vietnam made K14 pistole, manufactured by Z111 factory

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## Viet

new clothings for the army

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## Viet

*Strela-10*

a visually aimed, optical/infrared-guided, low-altitude, short-range surface-to-air missile system of the Vietnam People´s Army. Range of fire‎: ‎800 - 5,000 m.
_





_













night firing exercise

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Strela-10*
> 
> a visually aimed, optical/infrared-guided, low-altitude, short-range surface-to-air missile system of the Vietnam People´s Army. Range of fire‎: ‎800 - 5,000 m.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> night firing exercise



The Russians are upgrading their Strela-10 with Sosna-R missiles (the one used in the Palma system). Hopefully Vietnam will do the same.

SOSNA-R

For protection of smaller missile boats and corvettes against air attacks, Russia is offering the new Palma turret, which incorporates the same close-in air defense system used with the Tunguska (SA-19 Grison). Palma uses eight SOSNA-R missiles and two 30mm six-barrel AO-18KD gatling guns, which have a cyclic rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute. Each gun is provided with 1,500 ready-use rounds. Palma provides fully automatic close-in protection for naval ships and, unlike most Russian systems, uses combined input from radar, laser and IR systems, reportedly making it immune to electronic countermeasures. 

The SOSNA-R 9M337 (SA-24) hyper-velocity beam rider missile is a two-stage missile designed for interception of fired wing aircraft and helicopters, as well as guided weapons and cruise missiles. This missile type is also capable of engaging light armored vehicles. *The missile uses radar-guidance for boost phase, transitioning to laser beam guidance for mid-course corrections and the terminal phase.* The 28 kg missile can sustain maximum dynamic loads of 40Gs, cruises at a speed of 570 m/sec and has a top speed of 920 m/sec. The missile is equipped with a fragmentation charge activated at close proximity flyby, or a rod penetrator, which is used when a direct hit can be achieved. The missile uses a selective proximity/impact fuse with continuous circular pattern scan and adaptive burst rate in order to support both kill mechanisms. SOSNA-R missiles are designed to engage targets at ranges of 1 – 10 km and altitudes of 6 – 15,000 feet.

SOSNA can also be carried on tracked vehicles such as the MT-LB permitting operation as a mobile air defense system that consists of 12 missile launchers, an EO module and a radar installed on a traversable turret. The MT-LB is also a part of the improved Strela 10M4, which is an upgraded version of the 9K35, also known as Strela-10 (NATO designation SA-13 Gopher). The Strela-10M4 uses 9M333 or 9M37MD IR guided missiles, which are designed for an effective range of 0.5 to 5 km and altitudes from 3 to 10,000 feet. The system operates completely passively prior to launch. Utilizing electro-optical based, "man-in-the-loop" target acquisition and "fire and forget" guidance, it is effectively immune to traditional electronic countermeasures, including EO jamming and flares.






*Air defense missile system*

The system is intended to protect against all types of air threats including high-precision weapons e.g. cruise missiles and guided aircraft missiles in the area of the system responsibility: in range – up to 10 km, in altitude – up to 5 km.

*Structure principles*

• mount of missile armament with a launcher in one combat vehicle, air search and target tracking equipments, missile flight control units that are combined by integrated optronic combat control system
• missile armament consists of 12 high-speed high-precision maintenance-free missiles SOSNA-R deployed in a launcher. Light weight of the missiles allows to dispose of a transport/loading vehicle from the system
• optimal configuration of surface-to-air guided missile (SAM) payload allows to improve impact effect due to increased weight of spread warheads and application of impact/non-impact laser fuse with continuous circular beam pattern and adaptive burst time
• special multichannel automatic high-precision practically all-weather and day/night optronic control system
• combined missile control system:
- radio command system in start zone
- remote orientation in laser beam after engine division and missile targeting to the line-of-sight
• optronic combat control system with sector scan and in the automate target designation mode provide autonomous target detection capability

*Qualities*

• high effectiveness of combat application including high-speed and low-flying targets and helicopters during pop-up maneuvers
• high automation of combat processes
• day/night and all-weather capability of combat processes
• concealed fire preparation and high survivability
• unlimited minimum flight altitude of hitting target
• radar and optical countermeasure equipments immunity
• capacity to firing on the move

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## Viet

Carlosa, I believe the decision is made for Spyder. many articles including from VN state media say:

low-high search radar 36D6 (Ukraine)
passive early warning radar Kolchuga (Ukraine)
long-range radar ELM-2288/ER (Israel)

Viettel made radars RV-D1, VRS-S, and VRS-W
intelligence management systems: VQ 98-01, VQ-1M, and VQ-2

anti aircraft missiles will be SPYDER, S-300 and S-125.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/politics/31293/vietnam-buys-israelimade-air-defense-missile-system-radar

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, I believe the decision is made for Spyder. many articles including from VN state media say:
> 
> low-high search radar 36D6 (Ukraine)
> passive early warning radar Kolchuga (Ukraine)
> long-range radar ELM-2288/ER (Israel)
> 
> Viettel made radars RV-D1, VRS-S, and VRS-W
> intelligence management systems: VQ 98-01, VQ-1M, and VQ-2
> 
> anti aircraft missiles will be SPYDER, S-300 and S-125.
> 
> http://tuoitrenews.vn/politics/31293/vietnam-buys-israelimade-air-defense-missile-system-radar



Sure, as new systems go, but I don't think Vietnam will trow away the Strela 10. Even Russia is upgrading them, so Vietnam will probably do the same and lets not forget that it makes sense from a logistical perspective since VN is already using the Sosna-R in the navy.

And anyway, what you are saying that the anti aircraft missiles will be SPYDER, S-300 and S-125 is true, but........ those are *fixed systems*, they are not *mobile* (yes, they can move to a new location and set up again, but that's not the type of mobile that I'm talking about, they can't operate on the move). The Strela 10 is a mobile system and can fire on the move, so its in a different category.

The other mobile systems in Vietnam are Pantsyr S1, the rumored Thor system which has never been confirmed, but its almost for sure that Vietnam has and the Buk M2.

You can classify the air defense systems into 3 types: portable (MANPACS), fixed operation and mobile. fixed operation and mobile are for different purposes, they complement each other.

Most mobile systems are short range and they move together with the armored / mechanized units and infantry in order to protect them at the front. The fixed systems stay in the back in stationary positions or just defend important locations (the S-300 systems defend Saigon and Hanoi). The Pantsyr S1 usually protects the S-300 batteries.

Still, there is one more fixed operation system that is needed and that was going to be the Aster 30 - SAMP/T, but I didn't hear anymore about that. What happened with that? The last I've heard, some Vietnamese officers went to training classes in France.

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## Carlosa

Now is that time of the year to do the 2016 listing of the top assets of the Vietnamese military. I believe these assets can compete with anybody, including any superpower. If someone thinks that they have better "assets", then show us what you got.
@Nilgiri @Farhan Bohra @Abingdonboy @C130

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## Carlosa



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## Carlosa



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## Nilgiri

Well I really appreciate the turn in this thread 

@django @The Sandman

Lets keep the assets on topic (viet) for the time being @Carlosa

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## django

@Nilgiri @The Sandman 
she can take me POW anytime

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## The Sandman

Carlosa said:


>


Dayum wth happened here ppl? 


Nilgiri said:


> Well I really appreciate the turn in this thread
> 
> @django @The Sandman
> 
> Lets keep the assets on topic (viet) for the time being @Carlosa


I agree


django said:


> @Nilgiri @The Sandman
> she can take me POW anytime


Ja!

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## Nilgiri

Is the one in the middle a movie star? Because hot dammnn

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## Viet

*The F-105 Was the F-35 of the Vietnam Era*
*U.S. Air Force devised special tactics to help the jet survive*











by DAVID AXE

The U.S. military’s new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter can’t turn fast enough to defeat a much older F-16 in mock air combat, according to an official test pilot report that War Is Boring obtained.

So how will F-35s — on track to be the U.S. Air Force’s most numerous fighter — survive in battle against foes flying much more nimble Russian and Chinese jets?

Look to history for possible answers. Fifty years ago, the Air Force was in a similar predicament. Its main strike fighter was the F-105 Thunderchief — a heavy, high-tech ground-attacker that, much like the F-35, was supposed to _also _be able to defeat enemy fighters.

But in fact, the F-105 — like the F-35 — turned too slowly to reliably beat the Russian-made MiG-21, the Thunderchief’s main potential rival at the time. So the Air Force worked out special tactics to help the F-105 survive.

The flying branch will have to do the same for the F-35.






_a Mig-17 tails a US F-105 Thunderchief over Vietnam _


The similarities between the F-35 and F-105 are striking. “Both the F-105 and JSF are large, single-seat, single-engine strike fighters, using the most powerful engine of the era … [and] with empty weights in the 27,000-pound class, and wingspans almost identical at 35 feet,” Carlo Kopp, an Australian aerospace analyst, wrote in 2004.

“Both carry internal weapon bays and multiple external hardpoints for drop tanks and weapons,” Kopp continued. “Both were intended to achieve combat radii in the 400-nautical-mile class. Neither have by the standards of their respective periods high thrust-weight ratio or energy maneuver capability favored for air superiority fighters and interceptors.”

The Air Force acquired 833 F-105s and lost no fewer than 334 over Vietnam between 1965 and 1970. North Vietnamese MiGs shot down 22 Thunderchiefs while, according to Kopp, F-105s shot down at least 27 MiGs — near parity in air-to-air combat.

But the Pentagon wasn’t content with parity. To improve its tactics, in 1969 the Air Force conducted mock air battles between an F-105 and a ex-Iraqi MiG-21 as part of the Defense Intelligence Agency’s “Have Doughnut” program. The MiG’s pilot had defected to Israel with his jet, and the Israelis generously allowed the Americans to borrow the speedy, nimble little fighter.






_air battle over Vietnam. a F-105 goes down._


The experiment did not go well for the F-105. Encountering a MiG-21, the F-105 crew should try to flee, the testers advised. If the F-105 was behind the MiG-21 and the MiG flier didn’t know it, the Thunderchief crew could attempt a high-speed ambush.

But when the F-105 and MiG-21 started out in equal and opposite positions, the American plane was in trouble. “If the F-105 attacker attempts a prolonged maneuvering engagement, it becomes vulnerable to follow-up attacks as the offensive situation deteriorates due to loss of energy and maneuvering potential,” the Air Force reported.

*Buy ‘The Air Force Way of War: U.S. Tactics and Training after Vietnam.’*


The F-35 pilot in the JSF-on-F-16 test reported a similar dynamic. “Insufficient pitch rate,” the F-35 flier complained about his stealthy fighter-bomber. In a turning fight, “energy deficit to the bandit would increase over time.”

But while the F-105 enjoyed a straight-line speed advantage over most rivals, the F-35 is actually _slower _than today’s Sukhoi, Shenyang and Chengdu fighters. Fortunately, the JSF is a _stealth _warplane, with design features that help it avoid detection by long-range sensors in certain circumstances.

If the F-35 is to survive in future wars, its operators must devise tactics that take advantage of this one attribute, Kopp advised. “The decisive factor for the JSF in this game will be its limited stealth performance.”

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> vtnsx, aviet: how about you both go a boxing room and fight? how about contributing into this thread?
> I get bored by your bashing either against each other or one other favorite regimes.
> 
> 
> Vietnam made K14 pistole, manufactured by Z111 factory



He's not worth my time. I got better things to do in this beautiful weather.

I'm waiting for news to come out on Vietnam building Autopilot/no pilot Stealth F series fighter jets. Now, that would be news.

Or even making Barrett M107 50 mil caliper sniper rifle would be news. Keep an open mind about it. No one knows what is going to happen tomorrow.


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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Is the one in the middle a movie star? Because hot dammnn



She is part of a South Korean special forces team visiting Vietnam.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> She is part of a South Korean special forces team visiting Vietnam.



Oh man, I sure could participate in that kind of international cooperation

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## Viet

and as bonbon for IN members
@Nilgiri

Bollywood star Avika Go recent visit to a Vietnam hospital

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> and as bonbon for IN members
> @Nilgiri
> 
> Bollywood star Avika Go recent visit to a Vietnam hospital



Is bollywood popular in Vietnam?


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Is bollywood popular in Vietnam?


not sure. chinese films and music are very popular. I have heard of India film festivals organised in Vietnam, in cities as Hanoi, Saigon and Danang. even there are plans to shoot scenes in Vietnam. personally I get hallucination after seeing bollywood dance scenes 











Carlosa said:


> Sure, as new systems go, but I don't think Vietnam will trow away the Strela 10. Even Russia is upgrading them, so Vietnam will probably do the same and lets not forget that it makes sense from a logistical perspective since VN is already using the Sosna-R in the navy.
> 
> And anyway, what you are saying that the anti aircraft missiles will be SPYDER, S-300 and S-125 is true, but........ those are *fixed systems*, they are not *mobile* (yes, they can move to a new location and set up again, but that's not the type of mobile that I'm talking about, they can't operate on the move). The Strela 10 is a mobile system and can fire on the move, so its in a different category.
> 
> The other mobile systems in Vietnam are Pantsyr S1, the rumored Thor system which has never been confirmed, but its almost for sure that Vietnam has and the Buk M2.
> 
> You can classify the air defense systems into 3 types: portable (MANPACS), fixed operation and mobile. fixed operation and mobile are for different purposes, they complement each other.
> 
> Most mobile systems are short range and they move together with the armored / mechanized units and infantry in order to protect them at the front. The fixed systems stay in the back in stationary positions or just defend important locations (the S-300 systems defend Saigon and Hanoi). The Pantsyr S1 usually protects the S-300 batteries.
> 
> Still, there is one more fixed operation system that is needed and that was going to be the Aster 30 - SAMP/T, but I didn't hear anymore about that. What happened with that? The last I've heard, some Vietnamese officers went to training classes in France.


true. we need multi-layered radars with different missiles capable to meet any aeria threats. about Aster-30?

there are some rumours and reports, Vietnam negotiates with the Dutch on delivery of a more advanced version of Sigma: type 10514. 8 x Ecoxet block III range 180 km, naval gun Oto Melara 76 mm, mini torpedo 324 mm, 2 x rapid naval guns 20 mm. to counter aerial threats, the ship has VLS capable to fire Aster-15 missiles range 30 km, Aster 30 missiles range 120 km. though I don´t think we can opt for Aster-30 land attack version, range 3,000 km 


Sigma type 10514









Aster-30 SAM

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> true. we need multi-layered radars with different missiles capable to meet any aeria threats. about Aster-30?
> 
> there are some rumours and reports, Vietnam negotiates with the Dutch on delivery of a more advanced version of Sigma: type 10514. 8 x Ecoxet block III range 180 km, naval gun Oto Melara 76 mm, mini torpedo 324 mm, 2 x rapid naval guns 20 mm. to counter aerial threats, the ship has VLS capable to fire Aster-15 missiles range 30 km, Aster 30 missiles range 120 km. though I don´t think we can opt for Aster-30 land attack version, range 3,000 km
> 
> 
> Sigma type 10514
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aster-30 SAM



The Aster 30 - SAMP/T system that VN was rumored to buy and that sent officers to France for training was for the ground version, that's what the SAMP/T designation stands for. The contract its supposed to be for 2 batteries and 96 missiles for 700 million euros.

I didn't hear anything about VN been interested in the naval version. Myself, I see it as way too expensive to Vietnam when Barak 8 is a little bit better, but its a lot cheaper and I did hear that if VN buys larger type of ships from India, they would have Barak-8, so its a good system to have for both the army and navy.

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## Viet

*Passive Radar *

"sees without being seen"

operating in accordance with method TDOA (Time Difference Of Arrival), frequency 88 MHz – 18 GHz, range 400 km with 20 m accuracy, update frequency of 1-5 seconds, operating in all weather conditions, immune against enemy anti-radiation missiles, capable of detecting stealth B-2 bomber from a distance of 250 km, the most modern radar of Vietnam today: Vera-NG (Czech Republic).

the Vera-NG passive surveillance system consists of 4 stations (1 central; 3 remote sites; 1 Central Processing Station), designed for detection, location, identification and tracking of air, ground as well as naval targets, capable to follow and track up to 400 targets at any given time.

Vera-NG

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> not sure. chinese films and music are very popular. I have heard of India film festivals organised in Vietnam, in cities as Hanoi, Saigon and Danang. even there are plans to shoot scenes in Vietnam. personally I get hallucination after seeing bollywood dance scenes



I also have a soft spot for Indian dance, particularly the female dancers. @Nilgiri



Viet said:


> *Passive Radar *
> 
> "sees without being seen"
> 
> operating in accordance with method TDOA (Time Difference Of Arrival), frequency 88 MHz – 18 GHz, range 400 km with 20 m accuracy, update frequency of 1-5 seconds, operating in all weather conditions, immune against enemy anti-radiation missiles, capable of detecting stealth B-2 bomber from a distance of 250 km, the most modern radar of Vietnam today: Vera-NG (Czech Republic).
> 
> the Vera-NG passive surveillance system consists of 4 stations (1 central; 3 remote sites; 1 Central Processing Station), designed for detection, location, identification and tracking of air, ground as well as naval targets, capable to follow and track up to 400 targets at any given time.
> 
> Vera-NG



The nice thing about Vietnam having the Vera-NG and the Kolchuga is that they learned from them and last year the army showed the similar pasive radar designed by the Radar Research Institute of Vietnam. Here are some pics of that domestic version:

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I also have a soft spot for Indian dance, particularly the female dancers. @Nilgiri
> 
> 
> 
> The nice thing about Vietnam having the Vera-NG and the Kolchuga is that they learned from them and last year the army showed the similar pasive radar designed by the Radar Research Institute of Vietnam. Here are some pics of that domestic version:
> 
> View attachment 316197
> View attachment 316198
> View attachment 316199


looks great. haaaaaa even in Vietnamese letters: TDOA vien ra da

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## Carlosa

*U.S. Navy destroyers stalk China's claims in South China Sea*
David Larter, Navy Times10:02 p.m. EDT July 6, 2016
http://www.navytimes.com/story/mili...stalk-chinas-claims-south-china-sea/86777268/

U.S. Navy destroyers have been quietly stalking some of China's man-made islands and claims in recent weeks ahead of a ruling on contested claims in the South China Sea.

Over the past two weeks, the destroyers Stethem, Spruance and Momsen have all patrolled near Chinese-claimed features at Scarborough Shoal and in the Spratly Islands, according to two defense officials.

“We have been regularly patrolling within the 14 to 20 nautical mile range of these features,” one official said, who asked for anonymity to discuss diplomatically-sensitive operations.





The distance is important because if the ships patrolled within 12 miles, the Navy would handle it as a freedom of navigation operation that asserts U.S. rights to freely operate in waters claimed by other countries.

Those FONOPS patrols must be approved at very high levels, but these close patrols outside of 12 miles are in international waters. Experts say the tactic serves as a message of resolve to the Chinese and U.S. allies in the region and is a deliberate show of force ahead of a major international ruling on the legality of some of China’s claims; Beijing claims nearly all of the South China Sea, setting up conflicts with its neighbors and the U.S.

A spokesman for U.S. Pacific Fleet said the patrols were part of the Navy’s “routine presence” in the region.

“Patrols by U.S. Navy destroyers like Spruance, Momsen and Stethem — as well as the USS Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group — are part of our regular and routine presence throughout the western Pacific. U.S. Navy forces have flown, sailed and operated in this region for decades and will continue to do so,” said Lt. Clint Ramsden.

Pacific Fleet declined to discuss the patrols and what message they were trying to send with them, citing security concerns.

“We won't discuss tactics, specific locations in the South China Sea or future operations anywhere in the region due to operational security,” Ramsden said. “All of these patrols are conducted in accordance with international law and all are consistent with routine Pacific Fleet presence throughout the western Pacific.”

The carrier Ronald Reagan has also moved into the South China Sea along with her escorts, the second carrier group to be dispatched to the region this year. The carrier John C. Stennis spent the bulk of its planned seven-month deployment patrolling the South China Sea, spending nearly three months there before leaving June 5.

On Wednesday, the Navy had seven ships in the region including Reagan, two cruisers and four destroyers, a Navy official said. The Virginia-class submarine Mississippi is also patrolling in the western Pacific, according to a recent press release announcing a port visit to Busan, South Korea, but the Navy does not comment on the location or movements of its submarines.

'No sail zone'

The heavy show of Navy hardware in the South China Sea, which includes a carrier air wing and hundreds of missile tubes on the destroyers and cruisers, is likely part of both the Navy’s continuing presence operations in the area and an anticipation of the international Permanent Court of Arbitration’s ruling on the legality of China’s claims in the South China Sea, said Jerry Hendrix, an analyst with the Center for a New American Security.

The Philippines brought China to court after its 2012 seizure of Scarborough Shoal, which is located within the 200-mile exclusive economic zone of the Philippines. Chinese vessels have been spotted surveying the area, activity that was a precursor to previous island-building projects; no construction is believed to have been started to date.




The case will likely rule on the legality of China’s claims surrounding artificial islands in the Spratly Islands, built atop of rocky outcroppings and reefs, and will also take up what exactly China is owed under the international laws of the sea.

China claims almost all of the South China Sea as its territorial waters and has embarked on the island building project to bolster its claims.

The ruling from the tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands, is expected to be released July 12.

“The Navy is trying to very strongly assert freedom of navigation and freedom of the seas,” said Hendrix, who is a retired Navy captain. “There is also, I think, some anticipation of The Hague’s ruling on China’s claims.

“I anticipate that China will take additional actions after the Hague tribunal, and I think there is a desire to show that after that happens there is not going to be a ramp-up of U.S. forces in the region: that they are already there.”

The U.S. has not taken a formal position on the Chinese claims but has said it will abide by the Hague’s ruling. China has dismissed the case as irrelevant and has said the court does not have the jurisdiction to rule on the matter.

The Chinese have taken proactive steps ahead of the ruling, including declaring a 38,000-square-mile “no-sail zone” near its Hainan Island while it conducts military exercises between July 5 and 11, the day before the ruling.

Significantly the Chinese no-sail zone includes the Paracel Islands chain, where in January the destroyer Curtis Wilbur conducted a freedom-of-navigation patrol. DefenseOne first reported the no-sail zone, which was posted on a Chinese government website.

Boosted presence

The stepped-up patrols of Chinese islands, as well as the persistent presence of a U.S. carrier strike group in the region, is part of an enhanced U.S. presence in the South China Sea, said Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Glaser said U.S. ships spent more than 700 days in the South China Sea in 2015 and are on track to spend more than 1,000 days there in 2016.

“On any given day you are seeing two or more ships operating in the South China Sea,” said Glaser, who directs the China Power Project at CSIS.

Glaser said the increased presence in the South China Sea is an indication that fleet leaders, including U.S. Pacific Command head Adm. Harry Harris, have been successful in pushing a more comprehensive strategy for presence in the area.

In April, Navy Times reported that Harris was pushing for a more assertive approach in the South China Sea that aimed to stop China's island-building and bullying of its neighbors. Leaders in the White House were cautious about that approach, seeking to get Beijing’s cooperation on a host of other policy priorities, including the recently signed Iran nuclear deal and a major trade agenda the Obama administration has been pressing.

A congressional staffer familiar with the regional issues said the Navy’s increased presence operations were welcome on Capitol Hill.

"The enhanced level of maritime and aviation presence in the South China Sea over the last three months is a welcomed development on the Hill where there has been a sustained skepticism that the administration was willing to create any type of real friction in the relationship that might actually deter Beijing,” the staffer said in an email.

Hendrix, the CNAS analyst, said the Navy has been leading the discussion on how to approach China’s claims in the South China Sea.

“This has been a situation of the Navy leading the policy discussion because of the level of persistence they’ve shown in the area,” Hendrix said. “I still believe there is hesitance on the part of the political leadership but the operational leadership is taking the opportunity to show its interest in the region.”

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## Viet

*Artillery*

since 2001 Vietnam is capable to produce artillery shells of different calibers. one of the factories is Z183 which manufactures 122mm, 130mm, 152mm calibers.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> *Artillery*
> 
> since 2001 Vietnam is capable to produce artillery shells of different calibers. one of the factories is Z183 which manufactures 122mm, 130mm, 152mm calibers.
> 
> 
> View attachment 316289
> 
> 
> View attachment 316290
> 
> 
> View attachment 316292
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316293
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316294
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316295
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 316296



Those are soviet calibres, I'm guessing most of Viet artillery is soviet era/origin?

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Those are soviet calibres, I'm guessing most of Viet artillery is soviet era/origin?


yes, our artilleries are mostly of soviet origin, although our factories can self produce them all nowadays. it is no surprise, because the Soviets delivered some 7,000 artillery guns to North Vietnam during the war, and the Viet soldiers are trained on using them ever since. In addition, our army still has a large amounts of US made artillery guns in store, nobody knows how many, probably 10,000 pieces. some are re-used such as the US made 105mm (M101) artillery mounted on a truck.

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## Farhan Bohra

Nilgiri said:


> Is bollywood popular in Vietnam?



She is hindi soap star. Not Bollywood.



vtnsx said:


> I'm waiting for news to come out on Vietnam building Autopilot/no pilot Stealth F series fighter jets. Now, that would be news.



Why? Autopilots are such high-tech? Or from when autopilots start building instead of developing?

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## Nilgiri

Farhan Bohra said:


> She is hindi soap star. Not Bollywood.



Cmon the good folk here dont know the difference  India TV/movies = bollywood

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## Viet

*Kalibr cruise missiles*

December 8, 2015, for the first time ever, a Russian submarine fired a salvo of Kalibr land attack cruise missiles from the Mediterranean Sea against Daesh targets in Syria. a defence spokesman of Russia said, all the targets in 1,500 km away were hit with high accuracy.










what has to do with Vietnam?

because Vietnam Kilo submarines are armed by the same type of Kalibr missile, which has an effective range of 2,000 km. Kalibr is comparable but more advanced than US made Tomahawk cruise missile, as it has a low radar signature and by means of low-level terrain following, is virtually invisible to enemy air defence. the operational software limits the range of Vietnam Kalibr missiles to 300 km. without this limitation (or we find a way to lift it by developing own software), our missiles can reach all targets in the South China Sea. and beyond.

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## Carlosa

The Navy recently held a field acceptance test for a Palma gun/missile simulator. the system is developed by Vietnam´s Naval Institute of Engineering. the test was positive, with the Simulator showing virtual combat situations, very close to reality, firing guns and missiles. the Navy plans to induct the Simulator in trainings in the near future. (Translation by Viet)

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet
> 
> Can you improve the Google translation of this article? This looks very interesting, its from comcom:
> 
> Chế tạo thiết bị huấn luyện mô phỏng tổ hợp Palma cho hải quân
> 
> Hội đồng khoa học Quân chủng Hải quân vừa tổ chức nghiệm thu cơ sở thiết bị mô phỏng tổ hợp pháo - tên lửa phòng không Palma trang bị trên tàu hộ vệ Gepard 3.9. Thiết bị này do Viện Kỹ thuật hải quân nghiên cứu, thiết kế, chế tạo và là sản phẩm của đề tài khoa học cấp Sở KH-CN TP.HCM “Thiết kế, chế tạo thiết bị mô phỏng tổ hợp tên lửa - pháo phòng không Palma để huấn luyện chiến đấu cho trắc thủ”.
> 
> Theo đánh giá của các chuyên gia, thiết bị được chế tạo trên cơ sở ứng dụng công nghệ mới nhất về mô phỏng, có đầy đủ các tính năng, các bài tập và tình huống giúp cho trắc thủ có thể luyện tập một cách trực quan, sinh động, sát với thực tế máy điều khiển hệ thống pháo - tên lửa phòng không Palma trên tàu Gepard 3.9.
> 
> Sau khi nghiên cứu hồ sơ, tài liệu có liên quan và kết quả kiểm tra hoạt động của thiết bị trên thực tế, Hội đồng khoa học quân chủng nhất trí nghiệm thu thiết bị mô phỏng huấn luyện hệ thống Palma do Viện Kỹ thuật hải quân chế tạo. Hội đồng kiến nghị quân chủng và các cơ quan chức năng cho phép ứng dụng thiết bị vào công tác huấn luyện tại các nhà trường của Quân chủng Hải quân trong thời gian tới.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Manufacturing Equipment Training Simulation Combinations Palma for the navy.
> 
> Scientific Council people's Navy has held a test facility equipment simulation combinations battery - rockets not palma equipment aboard the guardians cheetah 3.9. Unit due to technical institute navy research, Designed, built and is the product of the science department n-Sun City.
> 
> HCM "Design, manufacturing equipment simulation combinations rockets - battery room palma to train to fight for the program".
> 
> After assessment of experts, the unit was made on the basis of application technology new about simulation, full functions, homework and the situation to help program position can practice a way to live Officer, I was born, the real host control system battery - rockets not Palma Aboard Cheetah 3.9.
> 
> After research records, documents, and related results. Check the activities of unit, in fact, the scientific council of the people's test device Simulation Training System Palma Hospital Technical course Army team. Council petition army race and the feature that allows the program unit in business training in the field of the mutated navy in time for me.
> 
> View attachment 316345


basically it says, the Navy recently holds a field acceptance test for a Palma gun/missile simulator. the system is developed by Vietnam´s Naval Institute of Engineering. the test was positive, with the Simulator showing virtual combat situations, very close to reality, firing guns and missiles. the Navy plans to induct the Simulator in trainings in the near future.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> basically it says, the Navy recently holds a field acceptance test for a Palma gun/missile simulator. the system is developed by Vietnam´s Naval Institute of Engineering. the test was positive, with the Simulator showing virtual combat situations, very close to reality, firing guns and missiles. the Navy plans to induct the Simulator in trainings in the near future.



Thank you, that looks pretty good.

*Report: Indian Government speeding the sell of BrahMos for Vietnam*

*(Vietnam defense) - (Google translate) - According to The Diplomat, the Indian Government is currently urging the BrahMos Aerospace companies to accelerate the sale of supersonic missile BrahMos for Vietnam.*

*The Indian Government speeding the sale*

According to this source, in addition to speed supersonic BrahMos missile sale to Vietnam, the Indian Government also are boosting manufacturers increase the tempo of this weapons sale for 4 other potential customers as Indonesia, South Africa, Chile and Brazil.

In late June, 2016, Janes Defence Weekly magazine leads the Indian military sources said that Vietnam would be the first nation to get BrahMos missiles, possibly before the end of 2016.

According to this source, 22/6, the talks with Vietnam about the Brahmos missile supply in good progress, the Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar discussed weapons procurement contract with Vietnam's Defense Minister, General of Wu Chun.

The negotiations took place in Hanoi, including the option of a permanent team of Indian engineers to help Vietnam naval weapons system. The transfer of BrahMos could take place in a short time.



The BrahMos missile-M version.

Before Janes, TASS News Agency has also said that Vietnam will receive the fastest cruise missile in the world right in the year 2016. Mr. Manohar Parrikar of this Declaration launched today 17/6 survey occasion loaded type testing sessions trainer HTT-40 by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

In this event, said Parrikar said the Indian Government has decided to export missiles to India's friends, including the supersonic fleet destroyer missile BrahMos Indian-Russian cooperation and built.

About the export of missiles to Vietnam, Minister Parrikar answered the press that India will sell for Vietnam supersonic fleet destroyer missile has a range of 290 km far, and Vietnam will be the first country to receive advanced weapons by Russia and India cooperate in this production.

"We had negotiations with Vietnam, and with high capability for weapons supply contract will be reached before the end of the year," the Minister said Parrikar said, adding that at the same time.

"After my visit to Vietnam, we have decided to establish a working group to consider the aspect of the export of weapons," said Parrikar said.

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## 3Kingdoms

Good! Hope Vietnam develop strong sea denial to sea control power.
 

954 air force-naval brigade can perform the following tasks: military transport, reconnaissance, aerial, water-surface and on-the-ground observation, search and rescue at sea, on land and rescue and flood prevention

954 Brigade of training at sea

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## 3Kingdoms

Viet said:


>



Don't think details of this rocket has been posted?

*Rocket Systems for Coastal Defense*

Designated Coastal & Island Defense System (CIDS), the new system provides authorities with the tools to enforce national sovereignty over coastal areas, islands and archipelagos, 
protecting interests throughout a national Economic Exclusion Zone that can extend up to 200 miles from the seashore. A version of the system has already been activated in Vietnam, where it is deployed as part of the country’s ‘Killer’ anti-landing system. The Vietnamese application integrated by IMI uses coastal defense systems provided by IAI’s Elta Systems, Orbiter 2 mini-UAVs supplied by Aeronautics, and extra rockets provided by IMI.





While cruise missiles and artillery have been used for coastal defense for many years, until now, ballistic missiles and rockets have lacked the range and precision necessary to deter naval vessels. With its high precision, CIDS can hit targets at sea at long range, while they are still hours of sailing distance from shore. The system’s radars and optional UAVs provide the early warning, location, speed and heading data necessary to identify and lock onto targets in order to exploit its extended range and precision. The introduction of GPS guidance transforms the system’s rockets into precision, guided weapons, with accuracy of better than 10 meters. Moreover, with their ballistic attack trajectory, these weapons are difficult to defeat by conventional naval defenses.

Two weapons of this class include the Chinese DF-21D and the Iranian Khalij Fars, derived from the Fateh 110 short-range ballistic missile. Both use vehicular-launched ballistic missiles. The system introduced by IMI Systems offers a similar application in an operationally flexible, distributed and affordable configuration.

A rocket-based island defense system such as the Vietnamese ‘Killer’ system is particularly suited to protect the country’s territorial claims in the disputed Spratly Islands of the South China Sea. Its coverage, which extends over 80 nautical miles, is sufficient to enable a small garrison to protect approaches to key islands and many of the atolls and small islands in the area.

IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, integrating sensors and command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational picture over a wide area in real time. Configured for mobile, stationary or hybrid formations, CIDS supports flexible deployment in remote theaters. The system employs precision, guided ballistic rockets such as those of the ACCULAR family, that can hit pinpointed targets at sea and on land, at distances of up to 80 nautical miles.




IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, combining sensors on land and on manned and unmanned platforms, command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational-picture over a wide-area in real time.
Image: IMI Systems

The rockets used by the system enable coastal defenders to respond rapidly and decisively, engaging multiple moving targets simultaneously. CIDS offers a cost-effective alternative to coastal artillery and missile systems, offering superior performance in range and precision over coastal artillery. It also provides a higher degree of operational flexibility, through remote control and the ability to engage targets both at sea and on land.

CIDS elements can be distributed in multiple locations for optimal coverage and response. These elements can be controlled remotely from the system’s central command post. Redundant communications links ensure secure control over all distributed assets.




Fired from a range of 150 km, IMI Systems’ 306mm Extra rocket can hit within less than 10 meters of a target.
Photo: IMI Systems.

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## Carlosa

3Kingdoms said:


> Don't think details of this rocket has been posted?
> 
> *Rocket Systems for Coastal Defense*
> 
> Designated Coastal & Island Defense System (CIDS), the new system provides authorities with the tools to enforce national sovereignty over coastal areas, islands and archipelagos,
> protecting interests throughout a national Economic Exclusion Zone that can extend up to 200 miles from the seashore. A version of the system has already been activated in Vietnam, where it is deployed as part of the country’s ‘Killer’ anti-landing system. The Vietnamese application integrated by IMI uses coastal defense systems provided by IAI’s Elta Systems, Orbiter 2 mini-UAVs supplied by Aeronautics, and extra rockets provided by IMI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While cruise missiles and artillery have been used for coastal defense for many years, until now, ballistic missiles and rockets have lacked the range and precision necessary to deter naval vessels. With its high precision, CIDS can hit targets at sea at long range, while they are still hours of sailing distance from shore. The system’s radars and optional UAVs provide the early warning, location, speed and heading data necessary to identify and lock onto targets in order to exploit its extended range and precision. The introduction of GPS guidance transforms the system’s rockets into precision, guided weapons, with accuracy of better than 10 meters. Moreover, with their ballistic attack trajectory, these weapons are difficult to defeat by conventional naval defenses.
> 
> Two weapons of this class include the Chinese DF-21D and the Iranian Khalij Fars, derived from the Fateh 110 short-range ballistic missile. Both use vehicular-launched ballistic missiles. The system introduced by IMI Systems offers a similar application in an operationally flexible, distributed and affordable configuration.
> 
> A rocket-based island defense system such as the Vietnamese ‘Killer’ system is particularly suited to protect the country’s territorial claims in the disputed Spratly Islands of the South China Sea. Its coverage, which extends over 80 nautical miles, is sufficient to enable a small garrison to protect approaches to key islands and many of the atolls and small islands in the area.
> 
> IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, integrating sensors and command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational picture over a wide area in real time. Configured for mobile, stationary or hybrid formations, CIDS supports flexible deployment in remote theaters. The system employs precision, guided ballistic rockets such as those of the ACCULAR family, that can hit pinpointed targets at sea and on land, at distances of up to 80 nautical miles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMI Systems offers the CIDS as an integrated coastal defense solution, combining sensors on land and on manned and unmanned platforms, command, control and communications elements to create, update and process a situational-picture over a wide-area in real time.
> Image: IMI Systems
> 
> The rockets used by the system enable coastal defenders to respond rapidly and decisively, engaging multiple moving targets simultaneously. CIDS offers a cost-effective alternative to coastal artillery and missile systems, offering superior performance in range and precision over coastal artillery. It also provides a higher degree of operational flexibility, through remote control and the ability to engage targets both at sea and on land.
> 
> CIDS elements can be distributed in multiple locations for optimal coverage and response. These elements can be controlled remotely from the system’s central command post. Redundant communications links ensure secure control over all distributed assets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fired from a range of 150 km, IMI Systems’ 306mm Extra rocket can hit within less than 10 meters of a target.
> Photo: IMI Systems.



It has been posted in the past, at the time of the news of Vietnam buying these systems, but its good to see the info again, thank you. Its a good system, it has a small footprint that make it very suitable for the small islands. It has a very good range and complements the artillery pieces in the islands.

Vietnam uses the smaller 2 tube rocket launcher for EXTRA, the small footprint again, very important in such small islands. I suspect that Vietnam has a small mobile launcher that does not need to use the truck. That would make it much easier to hide.

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## 3Kingdoms

Carlosa I don't know what I can really give to this thread, you have great post buddy! Do you have military experience? Do you know much about a amphibious assault? Personally I don't.

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## Carlosa

3Kingdoms said:


> Carlosa I don't know what I can really give to this thread, you have great post buddy! Do you have military experience? Do you know much about a amphibious assault? Personally I don't.



Everybody has something to give to the thread, nobody is capable of having all the information. No worries man. Just post whenever you find something interesting. Actually, the big Daddy of the thread is @Viet, he is the one that started the thread and he is the one that does the most posts by far and when the thread is slow, he keeps it alive.

Somebody else asked me the same a few days ago. I have ZERO military experience; military things is a hobby of mine for many years, I read a lot about it, I try to understand it in depth as much as I can, that's all.

If you are thinking about amphibious assault in terms of how the Vietnamese islands can defend from a chinese amphibious assault, yes, I did put together a whole piece in the past about how the defense of the islands can work. I'll look at my files and I'll post it later, but let me tell you in advance that given the military balance in the area and the big difference of assets and capabilities, if China wants to take the islands, they will. There is no 2 ways about that and I've been told that by a naval officer in very blunt terms. Just think about the Japanese held islands in ww2. No matter how many troops and assets you put there, if the enemy controls the overall area and has control of the air and sea and massive naval and amphibious assault forces, they will take the islands just how the Americans did. Vietnam can make them pay a price, but that's all that can realistically be done at the moment.

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## 3Kingdoms

You sound like you have military knowledge, compliment for you!
About amphibious assault - I thought as much, but I agree its to deter and make the price for attack as expensive in terms of loss as possible. But its the lives that Vietnam may have to sacrifice, for this to happen that's another factor.
Would like to read your piece on island defense, do post it when you feel like it. Oh and kudos to Viet also great thread!

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## Carlosa

3Kingdoms said:


> You sound like you have military knowledge, compliment for you!
> About amphibious assault - I thought as much, but I agree its to deter and make the price for attack as expensive in terms of loss as possible. But its the lives that Vietnam may have to sacrifice, for this to happen that's another factor.
> Would like to read your piece on island defense, do post it when you feel like it. Oh and kudos to Viet also great thread!



Well, the thing is, you need to deploy enough military assets to make it clear that taking over those islands is not going to be a walk in the park (like it would be in the case of the Filipino islands), it has to be clear that attacking the islands means war and there is a price to pay and there can be retaliation. By the way, Vietnam can destroy the chinese held islands with the upgraded Scud missiles (CEP of 30 to 50 meters and range up to 700 km).

Here is my piece:

*Vietnamese Spratly Islands multi layer defensive system (this analysis applies only to the bigger islands):*

*First line of defense (up to 150 km range):* EXTRA (long range guided rockets).

*Second line of defense (up to 40 km range):* Accular guided rockets. 130 & 122 mm howitzers.

*Third line of defense (up to 10 km range):* Kornet anti tank missiles, Light tanks (PT-76) or medium tanks (T-54 / 55). The islands have a sizable forces of enclosed T-34-85 and even M-48 tanks, they're protected by hardened steel cases and concrete bunkers.

*Fourth line of defense (up to 3 km range):* direct line of sight light artillery (23 / 37 / 85 mm), MATADOR anti tank missiles, other anti tank missiles, RPG type weapons (RPG-7, SPG-9, RPG-29), AGS-17 grenade launcher, 12.7mm heavy machine guns.

*Against helicopter assault:* Shoulder mounted Igla missiles, 23 / 37 mm anti aircraft guns and even anti tank and RPG weapons.

*Air assets:* The islands can deploy armed helicopters.

*Passive defense:* The island have steel-reinforced concrete obstacles around the islands, like the poles in Bach Dang river and/or steel obstacles on Normandy. That would slow the enemies vessels down, also act as artillery marks. The artillery still has some use, but its not really effective against fast moving landing boats.

*Conclusions:* Everything is small, mobile and easy to hide and protect.

*Notes:* Large weapon systems (anti ship missiles, air defense systems, etc) are too difficult to hide and too vulnerable against the enemy initial shelling and or missile / roket attacks. Also, deploying sophisticated systems like anti ship missiles, etc, those systems have to be maintained, but can't do that properly in a small island. And lets not forget that the environment in those islands is very nasty to equipment, very nasty marine environment.

If you are going to attack these islands, you are first going to deploy plenty of assets and you are going to cut them off and then apply heavy suppression fire to destroy most of what is there and then you make your move. Its very difficult to defend against that, you can have landings coming from all directions and by air.

Now that the chinese have large bases in their newly expanded islands only makes the situation far worse. The already have 3 large air bases from where they can deploy a significant number of fighter jets as well as AWACS aircrafts. Its just a matter of time until they deploy large air defense systems which will cover the air space of the Vietnamese islands. They can also deploy long range rocket launchers to shell the islands, Vietnam has no defense against that, so there is no point in deploying large, sophisticated systems, they can't survive.

Look at what happened on the Falkland islands and those islands are far bigger, the Argentinians deployed 15,000 men and heavy artillery, but in the end they surrendered because they were cut off and had no chance of getting supplies. Actually, precisely because they deployed too many troops, the supply issue was even bigger. You can only deploy so much in an island that is 60,000 s/m (that's the biggest island, Spratly island, although its getting expanded now).

In my view those islands are not defensible against a big power like China. You can only try to do some damage to the attacking party before you lose the island, but you can't keep them. That would require air and naval assets that Vietnam does not have and also long range missiles.

Still, only so much can be deployed in a very small island and in the end, can't stop a large landing force. Remember all those Japanese islands during WW2, all much bigger and with a lot of Japanese troops, but all were taken. Islands are not defensible against a superior enemy that can cut off the island and keep a blockade.

That's also why all those chinese islands can be easily destroyed / taken by the Americans if they want to.

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## 3Kingdoms

You've highlight just how vulnerable those small islands are! With China's modern air power those mini UAV's would be targeted first and blind the Extra rockets?

Thanks Carlosa for your knowledge, especially line defence - I'm off to acquire knowledge about these things.

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## Carlosa

3Kingdoms said:


> You've highlight just how vulnerable those small islands are! With China's modern air power those mini UAV's would be targeted first and blind the Extra rockets?
> 
> Thanks Carlosa for your knowledge, especially line defence - I'm off to acquire knowledge about these things.



Mines can help, but they will not stop an airborne assault (helicopters).

Yes, those UAVs would be targeted first. There are a variety of ways to get target coordinates for the rocket launchers, but Vietnam is not doing very well in that department at the moment; more assets are needed, but that situation will improve in time. And anyway, The chinese will probably take those EXTRA rockets out before their naval force gets within their range. The defenses in the islands are able to fight a limited attack, but not a full attack. 

There are too many ways to hit an island, the island is a sitting duck. Ballistic missiles, cruise missiles launched by ships or aircraft, air attack, artillery and MLRS rockets based on nearby chinese islands, artillery from ships, UAVs, etc.

I'll make it simple. 300 mm MLRS (multiple rocket launchers) based on a nearby chinese island can totally saturate the island and not leave anything standing. The infantry have to stay in underground bunkers in order to survive. Then a simultaneous amphibious and air assault under cover of artillery fire. That's enough, game over.

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## Viet

3Kingdoms said:


> You sound like you have military knowledge, compliment for you!
> About amphibious assault - I thought as much, but I agree its to deter and make the price for attack as expensive in terms of loss as possible. But its the lives that Vietnam may have to sacrifice, for this to happen that's another factor.
> Would like to read your piece on island defense, do post it when you feel like it. Oh and kudos to Viet also great thread!


Thanks

We must rely on our strengh, which is not military hardware, but our intelligence. Hit the enemy where it least expects.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, the thing is, you need to deploy enough military assets to make it clear that taking over those islands is not going to be a walk in the park (like it would be in the case of the Filipino islands), it has to be clear that attacking the islands means war and there is a price to pay and there can be retaliation. By the way, Vietnam can destroy the chinese held islands with the upgraded Scud missiles (CEP of 30 to 50 meters and range up to 700 km).
> 
> Here is my piece:
> 
> *Vietnamese Spratly Islands multi layer defensive system (this analysis applies only to the bigger islands):*
> 
> *First line of defense (up to 150 km range):* EXTRA (long range guided rockets).
> 
> *Second line of defense (up to 40 km range):* Accular guided rockets. 130 & 122 mm howitzers.
> 
> *Third line of defense (up to 10 km range):* Kornet anti tank missiles, Light tanks (PT-76) or medium tanks (T-54 / 55). The islands have a sizable forces of enclosed T-34-85 and even M-48 tanks, they're protected by hardened steel cases and concrete bunkers.
> 
> *Fourth line of defense (up to 3 km range):* direct line of sight light artillery (23 / 37 / 85 mm), MATADOR anti tank missiles, other anti tank missiles, RPG type weapons (RPG-7, SPG-9, RPG-29), AGS-17 grenade launcher, 12.7mm heavy machine guns.
> 
> *Against helicopter assault:* Shoulder mounted Igla missiles, 23 / 37 mm anti aircraft guns and even anti tank and RPG weapons.
> 
> *Air assets:* The islands can deploy armed helicopters.
> 
> *Passive defense:* The island have steel-reinforced concrete obstacles around the islands, like the poles in Bach Dang river and/or steel obstacles on Normandy. That would slow the enemies vessels down, also act as artillery marks. The artillery still has some use, but its not really effective against fast moving landing boats.
> 
> *Conclusions:* Everything is small, mobile and easy to hide and protect.
> 
> *Notes:* Large weapon systems (anti ship missiles, air defense systems, etc) are too difficult to hide and too vulnerable against the enemy initial shelling and or missile / roket attacks. Also, deploying sophisticated systems like anti ship missiles, etc, those systems have to be maintained, but can't do that properly in a small island. And lets not forget that the environment in those islands is very nasty to equipment, very nasty marine environment.
> 
> If you are going to attack these islands, you are first going to deploy plenty of assets and you are going to cut them off and then apply heavy suppression fire to destroy most of what is there and then you make your move. Its very difficult to defend against that, you can have landings coming from all directions and by air.
> 
> Now that the chinese have large bases in their newly expanded islands only makes the situation far worse. The already have 3 large air bases from where they can deploy a significant number of fighter jets as well as AWACS aircrafts. Its just a matter of time until they deploy large air defense systems which will cover the air space of the Vietnamese islands. They can also deploy long range rocket launchers to shell the islands, Vietnam has no defense against that, so there is no point in deploying large, sophisticated systems, they can't survive.
> 
> Look at what happened on the Falkland islands and those islands are far bigger, the Argentinians deployed 15,000 men and heavy artillery, but in the end they surrendered because they were cut off and had no chance of getting supplies. Actually, precisely because they deployed too many troops, the supply issue was even bigger. You can only deploy so much in an island that is 60,000 s/m (that's the biggest island, Spratly island, although its getting expanded now).
> 
> In my view those islands are not defensible against a big power like China. You can only try to do some damage to the attacking party before you lose the island, but you can't keep them. That would require air and naval assets that Vietnam does not have and also long range missiles.
> 
> Still, only so much can be deployed in a very small island and in the end, can't stop a large landing force. Remember all those Japanese islands during WW2, all much bigger and with a lot of Japanese troops, but all were taken. Islands are not defensible against a superior enemy that can cut off the island and keep a blockade.
> 
> That's also why all those chinese islands can be easily destroyed / taken by the Americans if they want to.


if the chinese want to start the war, launching an invasion, I think they won't start small but will send an armada of amphibious vessels and warships. If they set sail from Hainan, it is a question how to hide the armada before other nation spy satellites and surveillance vessels?

There is a considerable sea distance for the Chinese to get the invasion force into position.

Once the Chinese attack forces are detected, some 10 minutes after they are departing, we would have the time to put our island defense into positions, alerting the Marines, calling our patrolling warships at sea into assistance, mobilizing surface warships and submarines from the home hand, bringing coastal artillery batteries.

The Chinese can mask the invasion by declaring it as a naval exercise. it would bring them a bit more time.

Until now we have a three No's policy. It will end at the moment the Chinese fire the first shot.

We will bring the war to the entire SC sea, to Paracels, Spratlys, to China. We will bring America, Japan, Russia, India into the war.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> if the chinese want to start the war, launching an invasion, I think they won't start small but will send an armada of amphibious vessels and warships. If they set sail from Hainan, it is a question how to hide the armada before other nation spy satellites and surveillance vessels?
> 
> There is a considerable sea distance for the Chinese to get the invasion force into position.
> 
> Once the Chinese attack forces are detected, some 10 minutes after they are departing, we would have the time to put our island defense into positions, alerting the Marines, calling our patrolling warships at sea into assistance, mobilizing surface warships and submarines from the home hand, bringing coastal artillery batteries.
> 
> The Chinese can mask the invasion by declaring it as a naval exercise. it would bring them a bit more time.
> 
> Until now we have a three No's policy. It will end at the moment the Chinese fire the first shot.
> 
> We will bring the war to the entire SC sea, to Paracels, Spratlys, to China. We will bring America, Japan, Russia, India into the war.



Well, they can also build up forces in the islands that they have in the Spratlys. There are many ways to do deception and achieve surprise. The attacking party has the advantage and they can count on having air and naval superiority. The Kilos can do some damage. The air force as it is at present, would be outnumbered. This is not easy man, but the best tool for Vietnam I think is ballistic missile retaliation against their bases in Spratlys, Paracels and Hainan.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, they can also build up forces in the islands that they have in the Spratlys. There are many ways to do deception and achieve surprise. The attacking party has the advantage and they can count on having air and naval superiority. The Kilos can do some damage. The air force as it is at present, would be outnumbered. This is not easy man, but the best tool for Vietnam I think is ballistic missile retaliation against their bases in Spratlys, Paracels and Hainan.


It is difficult or impossible for the Chinese to hide an invasion fleet close to our islands. Sure they can say their army, their warships and landing vessels are on holiday, but the moment they fuel they arm they depart will reveal their intention.

Yes we need ballistic missiles to turn them into ashes. Their bases their vessels into scraps.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Everybody has something to give to the thread, nobody is capable of having all the information. No worries man. Just post whenever you find something interesting. Actually, the big Daddy of the thread is @Viet, he is the one that started the thread and he is the one that does the most posts by far and when the thread is slow, he keeps it alive.
> 
> Somebody else asked me the same a few days ago. I have ZERO military experience; military things is a hobby of mine for many years, I read a lot about it, I try to understand it in depth as much as I can, that's all.
> 
> If you are thinking about amphibious assault in terms of how the Vietnamese islands can defend from a chinese amphibious assault, yes, I did put together a whole piece in the past about how the defense of the islands can work. I'll look at my files and I'll post it later, but let me tell you in advance that given the military balance in the area and the big difference of assets and capabilities, if China wants to take the islands, they will. There is no 2 ways about that and I've been told that by a naval officer in very blunt terms. Just think about the Japanese held islands in ww2. No matter how many troops and assets you put there, if the enemy controls the overall area and has control of the air and sea and massive naval and amphibious assault forces, they will take the islands just how the Americans did. Vietnam can make them pay a price, but that's all that can realistically be done at the moment.


Also thank to you

You provide great stuffs in this thread.

Actually I m not too much worried by a possible Chinese invasion.

Chinese are a bunch of cowards. They tend to attack Vietnam when our country is in trouble, having serious economic problem, civil war or similar things. Even that they need others to back then when fighting us. During the Le and the Nguyen, despite the huge imbalance of power, they did not dare attacking Vietnam

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Also thank to you
> 
> You provide great stuffs in this thread.
> 
> Actually I m not too much worried by a possible Chinese invasion.
> 
> Chinese are a bunch of cowards. They tend to attack Vietnam when our country is in trouble, having serious economic problem, civil war or similar things. Even that they need others to back then when fighting us. During the Le and the Nguyen, despite the huge imbalance of power, they did not dare attacking Vietnam



Yes, their typical style is to attack by surprise, that's what they did in 1979 and 1988.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Chinese are a bunch of cowards. They tend to attack Vietnam when our country is in trouble, having serious economic problem, civil war or similar things. Even that they need others to back then when fighting us. During the Le and the Nguyen, despite the huge imbalance of power, they did not dare attacking Vietnam



They tend to attack when an opponent is unprepared and perceived as weak. They did so to India in 1962. We have thankfully learned from it and never given them another opportunity since. We gave them a bloody nose back in 1967. Vietnam has to harness its strengths and always be prepared. But Viets are tough mofos (as seen in 1979 and of course in Vietnam war) so Chinese wont dare to do more than just words now. They have already rallied enough countries against them in some way....I dont think they will dare give an excuse for an official anti PRC "NATO" to be formed.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, their typical style is to attack by surprise, that's what they did in 1979 and 1988.



I am familiar with 1979. Was 1988 a bunch of more minor skirmishes? I know Vietnam had some skirmishes with Thailand too under the occupation of Cambodia.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, their typical style is to attack by surprise, that's what they did in 1979 and 1988.


more than just these two events

the attacked us (South Vietnam) in 1974 when we were at civil war, and when the war with America was not over.

in 1978, when they mis-used Cambodia as proxy, killing our ethnics in the country, attacking our border cities.

in 1979 chinese full scale invasion following our retaliation in Cambodia.

in 1988 when our economy was facing serious trouble, facing international sanction. we were short of everything, could not affort to continue the war.

to mention, they tried to sabotage USSR weapon delivery to North Vietnam during the Vietnam war.



Nilgiri said:


> They tend to attack when an opponent is unprepared and perceived as weak. They did so to India in 1962. We have thankfully learned from it and never given them another opportunity since. We gave them a bloody nose back in 1967. Vietnam has to harness its strengths and always be prepared. But Viets are tough mofos (as seen in 1979 and of course in Vietnam war) so Chinese wont dare to do more than just words now. They have already rallied enough countries against them in some way....I dont think they will dare give an excuse for an official anti PRC "NATO" to be formed.
> 
> 
> 
> I am familiar with 1979. Was 1988 a bunch of more minor skirmishes? I know Vietnam had some skirmishes with Thailand too under the occupation of Cambodia.


true.

if China was as small as Vietnam, we would slap their face once in the morning, once at noon time, and at the end of the day, we kick them once in the butt before they go to bed.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> They tend to attack when an opponent is unprepared and perceived as weak. They did so to India in 1962. We have thankfully learned from it and never given them another opportunity since. We gave them a bloody nose back in 1967. Vietnam has to harness its strengths and always be prepared. But Viets are tough mofos (as seen in 1979 and of course in Vietnam war) so Chinese wont dare to do more than just words now. They have already rallied enough countries against them in some way....I dont think they will dare give an excuse for an official anti PRC "NATO" to be formed.
> 
> 
> 
> I am familiar with 1979. Was 1988 a bunch of more minor skirmishes? I know Vietnam had some skirmishes with Thailand too under the occupation of Cambodia.



1988 is when they did a surprise attack in the Spratlys and took over 6 islands and reefs which is where they've been doing the land reclamation recently.

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## Viet

the girls with M1 Carbine (US origin)








with standard Vietnam made AK rifles

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Well, the thing is, you need to deploy enough military assets to make it clear that taking over those islands is not going to be a walk in the park (like it would be in the case of the Filipino islands), it has to be clear that attacking the islands means war and there is a price to pay and there can be retaliation. By the way, Vietnam can destroy the chinese held islands with the upgraded Scud missiles (CEP of 30 to 50 meters and range up to 700 km).
> 
> Here is my piece:
> 
> *Vietnamese Spratly Islands multi layer defensive system (this analysis applies only to the bigger islands):*
> 
> *First line of defense (up to 150 km range):* EXTRA (long range guided rockets).
> 
> *Second line of defense (up to 40 km range):* Accular guided rockets. 130 & 122 mm howitzers.
> 
> *Third line of defense (up to 10 km range):* Kornet anti tank missiles, Light tanks (PT-76) or medium tanks (T-54 / 55). The islands have a sizable forces of enclosed T-34-85 and even M-48 tanks, they're protected by hardened steel cases and concrete bunkers.
> 
> *Fourth line of defense (up to 3 km range):* direct line of sight light artillery (23 / 37 / 85 mm), MATADOR anti tank missiles, other anti tank missiles, RPG type weapons (RPG-7, SPG-9, RPG-29), AGS-17 grenade launcher, 12.7mm heavy machine guns.
> 
> *Against helicopter assault:* Shoulder mounted Igla missiles, 23 / 37 mm anti aircraft guns and even anti tank and RPG weapons.
> 
> *Air assets:* The islands can deploy armed helicopters.
> 
> *Passive defense:* The island have steel-reinforced concrete obstacles around the islands, like the poles in Bach Dang river and/or steel obstacles on Normandy. That would slow the enemies vessels down, also act as artillery marks. The artillery still has some use, but its not really effective against fast moving landing boats.
> 
> *Conclusions:* Everything is small, mobile and easy to hide and protect.
> 
> *Notes:* Large weapon systems (anti ship missiles, air defense systems, etc) are too difficult to hide and too vulnerable against the enemy initial shelling and or missile / roket attacks. Also, deploying sophisticated systems like anti ship missiles, etc, those systems have to be maintained, but can't do that properly in a small island. And lets not forget that the environment in those islands is very nasty to equipment, very nasty marine environment.
> 
> If you are going to attack these islands, you are first going to deploy plenty of assets and you are going to cut them off and then apply heavy suppression fire to destroy most of what is there and then you make your move. Its very difficult to defend against that, you can have landings coming from all directions and by air.
> 
> Now that the chinese have large bases in their newly expanded islands only makes the situation far worse. The already have 3 large air bases from where they can deploy a significant number of fighter jets as well as AWACS aircrafts. Its just a matter of time until they deploy large air defense systems which will cover the air space of the Vietnamese islands. They can also deploy long range rocket launchers to shell the islands, Vietnam has no defense against that, so there is no point in deploying large, sophisticated systems, they can't survive.
> 
> Look at what happened on the Falkland islands and those islands are far bigger, the Argentinians deployed 15,000 men and heavy artillery, but in the end they surrendered because they were cut off and had no chance of getting supplies. Actually, precisely because they deployed too many troops, the supply issue was even bigger. You can only deploy so much in an island that is 60,000 s/m (that's the biggest island, Spratly island, although its getting expanded now).
> 
> In my view those islands are not defensible against a big power like China. You can only try to do some damage to the attacking party before you lose the island, but you can't keep them. That would require air and naval assets that Vietnam does not have and also long range missiles.
> 
> Still, only so much can be deployed in a very small island and in the end, can't stop a large landing force. Remember all those Japanese islands during WW2, all much bigger and with a lot of Japanese troops, but all were taken. Islands are not defensible against a superior enemy that can cut off the island and keep a blockade.
> 
> That's also why all those chinese islands can be easily destroyed / taken by the Americans if they want to.



in Natuna case, our scenario will be focused on deploying mobile assets and platform meanwhile reconstructing Natuna to become our very Pearl Harbour, to become Navy and airforce main base (including building bunker and elaborate system of underground facilities). 

flanking movement is what we need to counter them

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> in Natuna case, our scenario will be focused on deploying mobile assets and platform meanwhile reconstructing Natuna to become our very Pearl Harbour, to become Navy and airforce main base (including building bunker and elaborate system of underground facilities).
> 
> flanking movement is what we need to counter them


sis the chinese have no intention to invade Natura. they only want to the waters around the island as evidenced in the 9 dsh line and repeated declaration of historic fishing ground. from the strategic point, Indonesia is in a much more comfortable position. you have no common land border, nor see demarcation with the chinese. lucky indonesia.

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## Farhan Bohra

Nilgiri said:


> I am familiar with 1979. Was 1988 a bunch of more minor skirmishes? I know Vietnam had some skirmishes with Thailand too under the occupation of Cambodia.



One thing people miss, from 1986 to 1987 Op Falcon was is effect followed by Op Chequerboard, PLA was not at all in good position. 

And as deescalation began on LAC, China did this

Google search Johnson_South_Reef_Skirmish ( sorry I cant post link right now).

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> sis the chinese have no intention to invade Natura. they only want to the waters around the island as evidenced in the 9 dsh line and repeated declaration of historic fishing ground. from the strategic point, Indonesia is in a much more comfortable position. you have no common land border, nor see demarcation with the chinese. lucky indonesia.



That's true, they made official statements saying that they have no claims to the Natuna islands, but they also said that they have overlapping claims to some of the waters since they are "traditional chinese fishing grounds".

I guess next they will say that the Indian Ocean is a traditional chinese fishing ground and that ancient chinese navigators were the first to discover and named Australia and New Zealand.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> if the chinese want to start the war, launching an invasion, I think they won't start small but will send an armada of amphibious vessels and warships. If they set sail from Hainan, it is a question how to hide the armada before other nation spy satellites and surveillance vessels?
> 
> There is a considerable sea distance for the Chinese to get the invasion force into position.
> 
> Once the Chinese attack forces are detected, some 10 minutes after they are departing, we would have the time to put our island defense into positions, alerting the Marines, calling our patrolling warships at sea into assistance, mobilizing surface warships and submarines from the home hand, bringing coastal artillery batteries.
> 
> The Chinese can mask the invasion by declaring it as a naval exercise. it would bring them a bit more time.



Thats almost next to impossible, China doesnt have such amphibious capabilities neither they have superiority over seas. 
How they dodge SSNs of US, UK, France & of Russia? 
The China already feeling the heat and her windpipe chocking further with each passing year. 

Let me post some interesting articles.

*Part 1 - Undersea Webs - US-Japan SOSUS Against Soviets/Russia*

*INTRODUCTION*

A steady development of Internet writing on the all platform Western sea surveillance system SeaWeb (often referred to on _Sub Matters_) is becoming more specific.

Two Australian Professors, Desmond Ball at the Australian National University and Richard Tanter at Melbourne University, produced a major book on how China’s naval forces are surrounded by undersea sensors. The book is _The Tools of Owatatsumi_ (free Download from ANU Press) of January 2015. Using data from the book Hamish McDonald on April 18, 2015 published an excellent essay "Japan and US enclose Chinese coast within sensor net"

Readers may recall _Submarine Matters_’ _How to Trap the Chinese Dragon – SeaWeb’s Fixed Undersea Array_, September 4, 2015


*ARTICLE*

In 2016 an increasing level of detail is surfacing on the (possible) undersea sensor array's extension (or pre-existence) northwest of Indonesia in India's Andaman and Nicobar Islands region. 

Where all this is going is that Prasun K. Sengupta on his TRISHUL website has reported on discussions at Day 2 of DEFEXPO INDIA 2016 (March 28 -31, 2016) of April 15, 2016 titled. Prasun K. Sengupta's report is excellent (and 7 pages long). So I will brea it into 4 parts over 4 days.

A longer title could also be *A SeaWeb (US, Japan, Australia, India) Quadrilateral Developing*.
Part 1 - Undersea Webs
[I have highlighted parts and added links where useful]
"A web of strategic projects is now taking firm shape as India enters into closer multilateral military cooperation relationships with Japan,*Australia* and the United States, as well as regional powers like Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam. Matters began taking on urgency in late September 2014, after US President Barack Obama and PM Modi have pledged to intensify cooperation in maritime security. Following this, on March 16, 2015 the defence ministers of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) at the end of the two-day 9th ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Langkawi, Malaysia, collectively stated that they wanted India to play a far bigger role in both the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and the South China Sea.

In the near future, therefore, under the auspices of the US–India Defence Framework Agreement, foundational pacts like the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA), and *Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA)* [see explanation of BECA and other acronyms], are likely to be inked by the two countries later this year.

Concurrently, Japan can be expected to extend funding from the Japan International Cooperation Agency for the upgradation of naval air bases and construction of *new ELINT/SIGINT stations along the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands*, which is made up of 572 islands (of which only 34 are presently inhabited), stretching around 470 miles north to south.

But most importantly, preliminary planning has commenced on a *Japan-financed project* that calls for

1) laying of an undersea optical fibre cable from Chennai to Port Blair; and

2) the *construction of an undersea network of seabed-based surveillance sensors *stretching from the tip of Sumatra right up to Indira Point. Once completed, this network will be an integral part of the existing US-Japan ‘Fish Hook’ sound surveillance (SOSUS) network [See _The Tools of Owatatsumi_ (ANU Press, January 2015) Map 4, Page 54] that will play a pivotal role in constantly monitoring all submarine patrols mounted by China’s PLA Navy (PLAN) in both the South China Sea and the IOR. 






This network will in turn be networked with the*Indian Navy’s (IN) high-bandwidth National Command Control and Communications Intelligence network (NC3I) [above]*, which has been set up under the IN’s National Maritime Domain Awareness (NMDA) project at a cost of Rs.1,003 crores [US$150 million]. At the heart of the NC3I is the Gurgaon-based, Rs.453 crore Information Management and Analysis Centre (IMAC), whose systems integration software packages were supplied by Raytheon and CISCO.

Oblique references to all these developments were made in the joint statement that was issued last month after the visiting *US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter* held delegation-level talks with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar. The joint statement spoke about: A) new opportunities to deepen cooperation in maritime security and maritime domain awareness; B) commencement of navy-to-navy discussions on submarine safety and anti-submarine warfare; and

3) enhancing on-going navy-to-navy discussions to cover submarine-related issues.





*US-Japan Fish Hook SOSUS network [Map above]*

The US was always interested in Japanese and Indian locations for its SOSUS stations. Initially called Project Caesar, this involved running cables out on continental shelves and connecting them to hydrophones suspended above the sea bottom at optimum signal depths.

An ‘experimental station’ was established at the north-western tip of Hokkaido in 1957, with the cable extending into the Soya (La Perouse) Strait. It monitored all Soviet submarine traffic going in and out of Vladivostok and Nakhodka in the Sea of Japan.Undersea surveillance systems and associated shore-based data collection stations code-named Barrier and Bronco were installed in Japan in the 1960s. Acoustic data collected at these sites was transmitted by US defence communications satellites to US Navy (USN) processing and analysis centres in the US.In the 1970s, a network between between Japan and the Korean Peninsula was commissioned.


By 1980, three stations at Wakkanai (designated JAP-4), Tsushima (JAP-108) and the Ryukyu Islands (RYU-80) were operational in Japan, along with earlier stations built in the Tsushima Straits and the Okinawa area. The existence of old cables at Horonai Point in north-west Honshu, which during the Cold War led out to SOSUS arrays in the Sea of Japan, has been widely described by scuba divers. By the mid-1980s the SOSUS hydrophone arrays stretched from southern Japan to The Philippines, covering the approaches to China.

After the collapse of the USSR and the decline of the submarine threat to the US in the early 1990s, the USN allowed its SOSUS systems in the north-west Pacific to atrophy, although some arrays were retained in working order so as to support civilian scientific research (such as tracking whales and monitoring undersea volcanic activity). According to a USN directive issued in August 1994, all seabed-based fixed-arrays in the Pacific were placed on ‘hot standby’; personnel would ‘not be routinely assigned to monitor fixed-array data’ unless that data was required for operational purposes, but in practice the probability of being able to reconstitute them to full operational status was ‘extremely low’."

Here is the original article

*Undersea Webs*
A web of strategic projects 
is now taking firm shape as India enters into closer multilateral military cooperation relationships with Japan, Australia and the United States, as well as regional powers like Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam.






In the near future, therefore, under the auspices of the US–India Defence Framework Agreement, foundational pacts like the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA), and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA), are likely to be inked by the two countries later this year. Concurrently, Japan can be expected to extend funding from the Japan International Cooperation Agency for the upgradation of naval air bases and construction of new ELINT/SIGINT stations along the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands, which is made up of 572 islands (of which only 34 are presently inhabited), stretching around 470 miles north to south. But most importantly, preliminary planning has commenced on a Japan-financed project that calls for *1)* laying of an undersea optical fibre cable from Chennai to Port Blair; and *2)* the construction of an undersea network of seabed-based surveillance sensors stretching from the tip of Sumatra right up to Indira Point. Once completed, this network will be an integral part of the existing US-Japan ‘Fish Hook’ sound surveillance (SOSUS) network that will play a pivotal role in constantly monitoring all submarine patrols mounted by China’s PLA Navy (PLAN) in both the South China Sea and the IOR. This network will in turn be networked with the Indian Navy’s (IN) high-bandwidth National Command Control and Communications Intelligence network (NC3I), which has been set up under the IN’s National Maritime Domain Awareness (NMDA) project at a cost of Rs.1,003 crores. At the heart of the NC3I is the Gurgaon-based, Rs.453 crore Information Management and Analysis Centre (IMAC), whose systems integration software packages were supplied by Raytheon and CISCO. 

Oblique references to all these developments were made in the joint statement that was issued last month after the visiting US Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter held delegation-level talks with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar. The joint statement spoke about: *A)* new opportunities to deepen cooperation in maritime security and maritime domain awareness; *B)* commencement of navy-to-navy discussions on submarine safety and anti-submarine warfare; and *3)* enhancing on-going navy-to-navy discussions to cover submarine-related issues.

The US was always interested in Japanese and Indian locations for its SOSUS stations. Initially called _Project Caesar_, this involved running cables out on continental shelves and connecting them to hydrophones suspended above the sea bottom at optimum signal depths. An ‘experimental station’ was established at the north-western tip of Hokkaido in 1957, with the cable extending into the Soya (La Perouse) Strait. It monitored all Soviet submarine traffic going in and out of Vladivostok and Nakhodka in the Sea of Japan. Undersea surveillance systems and associated shore-based data collection stations code-named _Barrier_ and _Bronco_ were installed in Japan in the 1960s. Acoustic data collected at these sites was transmitted by US defence communications satellites to US Navy (USN) processing and analysis centres in the US. In the 1970s, a network between between Japan and the Korean Peninsula was commissioned. By 1980, three stations at Wakkanai (designated JAP-4), Tsushima (JAP-108) and the Ryukyu Islands (RYU-80) were operational in Japan, along with earlier stations built in the Tsushima Straits and the Okinawa area. The existence of old cables at Horonai Point in north-west Honshu, which during the Cold War led out to SOSUS arrays in the Sea of Japan, has been widely described by scuba divers. By the mid-1980s the SOSUS hydrophone arrays stretched from southern Japan to The Philippines, covering the approaches to China. After the collapse of the USSR and the decline of the submarine threat to the US in the early 1990s, the USN allowed its SOSUS systems in the north-west Pacific to atrophy, although some arrays were retained in working order so as to support civilian scientific research (such as tracking whales and monitoring undersea volcanic activity). According to a USN directive issued in August 1994, all seabed-based fixed-arrays in the Pacific were placed on ‘hot standby’; personnel would ‘not be routinely assigned to monitor fixed-array data’ unless that data was required for operational purposes, but in practice the probability of being able to reconstitute them to full operational status was ‘extremely low’. 







However, in the early 2000s, facing an increasing PLAN submarine force and more aggressive PLAN submarine patrols, the USN decided that it needed a new chain of fixed arrays designed primarily to monitor the movement of PLAN submarines between the East China Sea and South China Sea on the one hand, and between the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean on the other. Thus was born the US-Japan ‘_Fish Hook Undersea Defense_ _Line_’ in early 2005, stretching from Japan southwards to Southeast Asia, with key nodes at Okinawa, Guam and Taiwan. Beginning from near Kagoshima in the southwest part of Kyushu, it runs down the Osumi archipelago to Okinawa, then to Miyako-jima and Yonaguni in the southern part of the Ryukyu Islands, past Taiwan to the Balabac Islands in The Philippines, to Lomkok in the eastern part of the Indonesian archipelago, across the Sunda Strait between Java and Sumatra, and from northern Sumatra to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Three major gaps—between Yonaguni and Suao in north-east Taiwan (120km), between Kaohsiung in south-western Taiwan and the Dongsha (Pratas) Islands (450km) where the East China Sea meets the South China Sea, and across the Bashi Channel (220km) between Hengchun at Taiwan’s southernmost tip and Luzon Island in The Philippines—were plugged. In addition, the USN installed a new SOSUS network, stretching from Sasebo down to Okinawa, in 2006, when the US cable-laying ship USNS _Zeus_ operated together with oceanographic survey vessels and nuclear submarines in this area. In July 2013, Beijing claimed that the US and Japan had jointly established ‘very large underwater monitoring systems’ at the northern and southern ends of Taiwan. One of these stretched from Yonaguni to the Senkaku Islands (about 150km), while the other covered the Bashi Channel down to The Philippines. Thus, this US-Japan undersea trip-wire around the PLAN presently extends across the Tsushima Strait between Japan and the Korean Peninsula, and from Japan’s southern main island of Kyushu down past Taiwan to The Philippines. The curve of the hook stretches across the Java Sea from Kalimantan to Java, across the Sunda Strait between Java and Sumatra, and from the northern tip of Sumatra along the eastern side of India’s Andaman and Nicobar island chain. Real-time information-sharing between the US and Japan joins the undersea defence line-up, effectively drawing a tight arc around Southeast Asia, from the Andaman Sea to Japan.

*Growing Tentacles*
The PLAN presently has an estimated 60 double-hulled submarines, of which 51 are diesel-electric SSKs (two Type 877EKM, ten Type 636, 13 Type 039 Song-class, four S-20/Type 041A Yuan-class, four S-20/Type 041B Yuan-class and 18 Type 035 Ming-class) and eight (four Type 091 Han-class and four Type 093 Shang-class) are nuclear-powered SSNs. In addition, there’s one Type 092 Xia-class and two Type 094 Jin-class SSBNs, with five more of the latter due for delivery in future. Also due for procurement in future are 15 single-hulled SSKs (most likely Russia’s Amur 1650-class) powered by indigenously-developed Stirling Engine air-independent propulsion systems. The number of PLAN submarine sorties has approximately quadrupled over the last seven years, with an average of 12 patrols being conducted each year between 2008 and 2015, following on from six in 2007, two 2006 none in 2005. In the Indian Ocean region (IOR), the PLAN has so far carried out three submarine patrols (all accompanied by Type 925/Type 926 submarine tenders), with the submarines being kept its vessels out at sea for 95 days during each patrol. 







The PLAN’s first SSN patrol within the IOR lasted from December 3, 2013 till February 12, 2014. One Type 093 Shang-class boat left Longpo its bastion at Yulin on December 3. Ten days later, on December 13, the SSN reached the Gulf of Aden via the Ombai Wetar Strait near Indonesia. It remained on patrol in the area for nearly two months. Next to follow was the Type 039 Song-class SSK ‘Great Wall 0329’, which later docked at the China-funded Colombo International Container Terminal in Sri Lanka from September 7 to 14, 2014 along with the Type 925-class tender_861 Changxingdao_. This was followed by a patrol of a Type 091 SSN from December 13, 2014 to February 14, 2015. Next came a S-20/Type 041A Yuan-class SSK that docked at Pakistan’s Karachi port in late May 2015, and was accompanied by a Type 925 Dajiang-class submarine tender. From this, it can be deduced that in the years to come, the PLAN will continue with this practice of launching at the very least two annual long-distance patrols—one each by an SSN and SSK—into the IOR. Entry while remaining submerged into the IOR from either the South China Sea or the Pacific Ocean will be made through either the Lombok Strait or the Ombai Wetar Straits astride Indonesia. 






During future hostilities with either the US or India, the most likely destinations of PLAN’s SSNs within the IOR will be the area around Diego Garcia and the Chagos Trench. Diego Garcia is part of the Chagos Archipelago, situated on the southernmost part of the Chagos-Laccadive Ridge. To the east lies the Chagos Trench, a 400 mile-long underwater canyon that ranges in depth from less than 1,000 metres to more than 5,000 metres, and the most likely area where the IN’s SSBNs will be lurking during operational patrols.







All vessels, including warships, enjoy the right of innocent passage through archipelagic waters. Innocent passage requires a vessel to conduct continuous and expeditious transit in a manner that is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the archipelagic state. For a submarine, innocent passage means transiting on the surface, as is the case with the Malacca Strait. But the Lombok Strait astride Indonesia is not considered archipelagic waters, rather it is part of an Archipelagic Sea Lane (ASL) that carves a path from Lombok in southwest Indian Ocean, through the Flores Sea, the Makassar Strait, the Sulawesi and Celebes Seas and on to the Pacific Ocean. It is like this because Indonesia desires sovereignty within the archipelago beyond the normal 12nm territorial water limit, which can be granted in relation to archipelagic states in certain circumstances, provided the ASLs are designated. For a submarine, normal passage means transiting submerged. The other interesting thing about ASLs is that, unlike innocent passage through archipelagic waters, which can be suspended temporarily on a non-discriminatory basis, this is not the case for ASLs. Any PLAN submarine can legally transit Lombok dived. If it chooses to loiter illegally and then gets caught, it can feign normal passage. 







Unlike the Sunda Strait—which forms part of a separate ASL, but is realistically too shallow for dived passage by all but the most daring/lucky of submarine operators—the Lombok Strait is relatively deep (varying between 800 and 1,000 metres). At the southern end of the Strait, where the channel is divided by the Island of Nusa Penida, a shallow sill is located. Depths rise to between 200 and 250 metres in the channel to the east of Nusa Penida. The sill is of huge importance to the oceanographic behaviour in the Strait, particularly since the Lombok Sea serves as one of two outlets (the other being the Timor Passage) for a great body of warm water that flows from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean—the so called Indonesian Throughflow. This sill, coupled with the Throughflow and tidal flow, results in relatively large current flows, typically from north to south, but is sometimes reversed. Current flows near the sill can reach 3.5 metres per second during spring tide periods. In the deeper water to the north of the sill it slows to between 0.2 to 0.5 metres. It must be noted, however, that current velocities vary as a function of depth. The upper 100 metres carry 50% of the total water transport through the Lombok Strait. Current velocities are, therefore, maximum at the surface with a sharp decrease from 75 to 300 metres. These currents are a quite significant for submarine operations, particularly diesel-electric SSKs, which must conserve battery life or that cannot take advantage of the deeper areas where the current is minimal. They also create interesting and complicated acoustic conditions for sonar on account of the varying temperature and salinity gradients across the current-related layers.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's true, they made official statements saying that they have no claims to the Natuna islands, but they also said that they have overlapping claims to some of the waters since they are "traditional chinese fishing grounds".
> 
> I guess next they will say that the Indian Ocean is a traditional chinese fishing ground and that ancient chinese navigators were the first to discover and named Australia and New Zealand.


Yes imagine, you invite your Chinese business partners to your home. Next day, when returning to China, they will claim they were the first who discover your garden, your kitchen, your home, worse, Danang is Chinese, everything they see it is Chinese since ancient time. It must be Chinese humour.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yes imagine, you invite your Chinese business partners to your home. Next day, when returning to China, they will claim they were the first who discover your garden, your kitchen, your home, worse, Danang is Chinese, everything they see it is Chinese since ancient time. It must be Chinese humour.



In Danang this week, 6 illegal chinese tour guides were fined and deported because of working illegally and "distorting vietnamese historical facts" such as telling people that the waters and beaches of Danang should be chinese territory, etc, etc.

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## Viet

The coast guard possesses a fleet of 6 x DHC-6 airplanes. 3 are used as transport aircraft, 3 as surveillance patrol aircraft with system ELM-2022A onboard, capable to track and monitor 256 targets on water surface at any given time.

Text and Images courtesy to tintuc.vn and Vietnam People's Army.







Ngoài Ka-28, hiện Việt Nam là một trong 3 quốc gia ở khu vực sở hữu thủy phi cơ tuần thám biển DHC-6. Ảnh: DHC-6 chạy đà cất cánh trên mặt nước. Nguồn: Kênh QPVN

Cất cánh từ mặt nước Biển Đông. Nguồn: Kênh QPVN






Việt Nam đã mua chiếc 6 chiếc thủy phi cơ DHC-6 để trang bị cho hải quân, trong đó 3 chiếc được cấu hình vận chuyển khách, hàng hóa còn ba chiếc trang bị hệ thống radar hiện đại để giám sát biển. Nguồn: Kênh QPVN


Các phi công Việt Nam nay đã làm chủ hoàn toàn việc vận hành DHC-6 mà không cần các phi công nước ngoài kèm. Nguồn: Kênh QPVN







Hệ thống hiển thị thông số từ radar giám sát hàng hải ELM-2022A và hệ thống cảm biến quang - điện - hồng ngoni MiniPOP trên DHC-6. Trong đó, ELM-2022A có khả năng quét và theo dõi đồng thời lên tới 256 mục tiêu trên biển với hiệu suất đã được đánh giá là "tuyệt vời". Nguồn: Kênh QPVN







Đặc biệt, DHC-6 ngoài khả năng cất hạ cánh trên mặt nước còn có thể cất hạ cánh đường bằng ngắn chỉ vài trăm mét. Cho nên, vài năm gần đây, DHC-6 đã được KQHQ Việt Nam sử dụng nhiều cho các chuyến bay ra đảo Trường Sa Lớn. Nguồn: Kênh QPVN






Ảnh: Máy bay DHC-6 tháo bộ phao, hạ cánh trine đảo Trường Sa Lớn. Nguồn: Kênh QPVN

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Yes imagine, you invite your Chinese business partners to your home. Next day, when returning to China, they will claim they were the first who discover your garden, your kitchen, your home, worse, Danang is Chinese, everything they see it is Chinese since ancient time. It must be Chinese humour.



The south west coast line of India is in trouble since Zheng He visited there . There are still plaques he left stating his visit....and Chinese style fishing nets are used there still.

The precedent must not be allowed to be set by the Chinese! So thats why every civilised thinking country in the world must get behind Vietnam in this SCS issue.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> The south west coast line of India is in trouble since Zheng He visited there . There are still plaques he left stating his visit....and Chinese style fishing nets are used there still.
> 
> The precedent must not be allowed to be set by the Chinese! So thats why every civilised thinking country in the world must get behind Vietnam in this SCS issue.


yes everybody now knows the Ming eunuch, thanks to chinese propaganda.

but the propaganda always hides the funny part: soon after the many vogages, the emperor ordered to burn down the entire highsee fleet, closing china border, forbidding foreign trades. I wonder how the chinese claim controlling the sea, exercising sovereinty over the islands, over the south china sea for a very long period without ships?

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> I wonder how the chinese claim controlling the sea, exercising sovereinty over the islands, over the south china sea for a very long period without ships?



Its the same logic by which an African country in the great rift valley can claim the sovereignty of the whole humanity....because a theory (whether true or not) is there that establishes all humans originate from there.

It is basically a logic that has no understanding of what a modern political entity is. When you mix it with fuzzy historical based ego, combine it with episodes of humiliation in between and mix it all together with general nationalistic fervour....you get this rubber band phenomenon where China thinks it has a RIGHT over what it claims on such a loose basis simply because it feels it has demonstrated the MIGHT.

Therefore we have to keep proving to them (and ourselves) that they have not demonstrated their might sufficiently, nor will we allow any future demo to be easy or successful (without grievous consequences for them)....and that this does not establish any right anyway....and that right by itself is based on a theory with way too many holes.

Its the nature of the middle kingdom ego, it has to be deflated in equal measure by the reality to what they stoke it up with each passing year...so that a status quo is at least maintained. Because if that equilibrium is not enforced, bad unnecessary things happen. But so far at their highest levels, they seem to realise the reality of their predicament....but it suits them to keep their people believing otherwise (it distracts negative attention away from the CPC after all).

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## Carlosa

@Viet @Aqsuperman I saw this in comcom, not sure if its a joke or for real. What do you think? We were just talking about Aster the other day. Aster and Mica missiles for Sigma 10514 ships? Not clear if both missiles are for ships or only the Mica. The Aster contract that was talked about before was for the land based version.

Damn, I want Indian ships with Barak 8, not this overpriced European stuff. Barak 8 is $1 million, Aster 30 is $2.5-3 million. European ships will come with Exocet, I'd like to see Brahmos or Kalibr.

Điểm tin trưa

Sau thất bại của đội tuyển Pháp trước Bồ Đào Nha tại chung kết Euro 2016, Bộ Quốc phòng Đông Lào tuyên bố đã hoàn tất việc ký hợp đồng đặt mua 200 quả tên lửa phòng không Aster-30 (tầm bắn 120 km, ước tính 2,5-3 triệu USD/quả) và 240 quả VL MICA (tầm bắn 20 km, giá 1,5 triệu USD/quả) từ tập đoàn MBDA. Các tên lửa này dự kiến sẽ được trang bị trên loạt tàu hộ vệ tên lửa và khu trục đang được phía Hà Lan đóng cho Đông Lào.

Phía Đông Lào cũng tỏ ý hài lòng với việc Pháp để thua trong trận đấu vừa rồi, cho biết nước này đang rất trông đợi vào các hợp đồng sắp tới, dự kiến sẽ được ký kết vào năm 2018. Quán bia ‪#‎ComCom‬ sẽ đưa tin thêm về các thương vụ này trong thời gian tới.

- Quán bia tổng hợp -

The lunch
After the failure of the National Team France before Portugal at the euro 2016 final, *the department of defense east laos declare complete and sign the contract to purchase 200 rmissiles Aster-30 (Shooting range for 120 miles, an estimate 2,5-3 million USD per missile) and 240 VL Mica missiles (range, 20 miles, price $ 1,5 million per missile) from Reece Mbda. The fire will be equipment on a series of missile escort ships and the shaft is in the Netherlands, close to the east.*

East Laos (Vietnam) also deliberately happy to France to lose in the game right now, know the water is very expected in the upcoming contract, will be signed in year 2018. The bar beer ‪#‎comcom‬ Trust will get you more information about this deal in time for me.
- Bar Beer Total -
‪#‎Atsm‬. ‪#‎JK‬

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## Nilgiri

@Carlosa are you fluent in Vietnamese?


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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> @Carlosa are you fluent in Vietnamese?



Not really, know basic stuff only.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet @Aqsuperman I saw this in comcom, nut sure if its a joke or for real. What do you think? We were just talking about Aster the other day. Aster and Mica missiles for Sigma 10514 ships? Not clear if both missiles are for ships or only the Mica. The Aster contract that was talked about before was for the land based version.
> 
> Damn, I want Indian ships with Barak 8, not this overpriced European stuff. Barak 8 is $1 million, Aster 30 is $2.5-3 million.
> 
> Điểm tin trưa
> 
> Sau thất bại của đội tuyển Pháp trước Bồ Đào Nha tại chung kết Euro 2016, Bộ Quốc phòng Đông Lào tuyên bố đã hoàn tất việc ký hợp đồng đặt mua 200 quả tên lửa phòng không Aster-30 (tầm bắn 120 km, ước tính 2,5-3 triệu USD/quả) và 240 quả VL MICA (tầm bắn 20 km, giá 1,5 triệu USD/quả) từ tập đoàn MBDA. Các tên lửa này dự kiến sẽ được trang bị trên loạt tàu hộ vệ tên lửa và khu trục đang được phía Hà Lan đóng cho Đông Lào.
> 
> Phía Đông Lào cũng tỏ ý hài lòng với việc Pháp để thua trong trận đấu vừa rồi, cho biết nước này đang rất trông đợi vào các hợp đồng sắp tới, dự kiến sẽ được ký kết vào năm 2018. Quán bia ‪#‎ComCom‬ sẽ đưa tin thêm về các thương vụ này trong thời gian tới.
> 
> - Quán bia tổng hợp -
> 
> The lunch
> After the failure of the National Team France before Portugal at the euro 2016 final, *the department of defense east laos declare complete and sign the contract to purchase 200 rmissiles Aster-30 (Shooting range for 120 miles, an estimate 2,5-3 million USD per missile) and 240 VL Mica missiles (range, 20 miles, price $ 1,5 million per missile) from Reece Mbda. The fire will be equipment on a series of missile escort ships and the shaft is in the Netherlands, close to the east.*
> 
> East Laos (Vietnam) also deliberately happy to France to lose in the game right now, know the water is very expected in the upcoming contract, will be signed in year 2018. The bar beer ‪#‎comcom‬ Trust will get you more information about this deal in time for me.
> - Bar Beer Total -
> ‪#‎Atsm‬. ‪#‎JK‬


the people of comcom have a weird humour. it is better if they speak clear text.

google translator does a good job, but it can´t translate what the writer wants to say.

basically it says, as of today Vietnam signs a contract with MBDA defence company of buying 200 x Aster-30 and 240 x VL MICA. it adds, the missiles will install on surface warships, currently under construction in the Netherland, we can safely assume, the missiles are designed for aerial fleet defence on Sigma frigates. Probably type Sigma 10514, yes we talked on in another day.

further, it says, we negotiate with the French on undisclosed military items. a contract could be signed in 2018.

undisclosed items?

well, it can range from Scorpène submarine to frigate to destroyer.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the people of comcom have a weird humour. it is better if they speak clear text.
> 
> google translator does a good job, but it can´t translate what the writer wants to say.
> 
> basically it says, as of today Vietnam signs a contract with MBDA defence company of buying 200 x Aster-30 and 240 x VL MICA. it adds, the missiles will install on surface warships, currently under construction in the Netherland, we can safely assume, the missiles are designed for aerial fleet defence on Sigma frigates. Probably type Sigma 10514, yes we talked on in another day.
> 
> further, it says, we negotiate with the French on undisclosed military items. a contract could be signed in 2018.
> 
> undisclosed items?
> 
> well, it can range from Scorpène submarine to frigate to destroyer.



Sigma ships come with Exocet, I don't like that. The chinese will laugh at Exocet. I'd like to see Brahmos or Kalibr. I did improve the Google translation a bit, it was worse.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Sigma ships come with Exocet, I don't like that. The chinese will laugh at Exocet. I'd like to see Brahmos or Kalibr. I did improve the Google translation a bit, it was worse.


here is my bet.

our next Gepard and Molynia will carry Kalibr. there is a GO from Russia.

Brahmos, not yet, negotiation still ongoing, a deal could be concluded with India end of this year. if there will be a GO, our ships with brahmos antiship missiles can be on-board of new type of 2,000 ton frigates built by the new Ba Son shipyard.

Exocet, Aster, Mica are very expensive. the Navy wants to signal to the Russians, we can buy from European defence companies, reducing our dependency on a large single provider, a better price, more technology transfer. second, the high price of such missiles (if $3 millions a piece, then it is a crazy overpriced price) only makes sense if we get access to the technology.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> here is my bet.
> 
> our next Gepard and Molynia will carry Kalibr. there is a GO from Russia.
> 
> Brahmos, not yet, negotiation still ongoing, a deal could be concluded with India end of this year. if there will be a GO, our ships with brahmos antiship missiles can be on-board of new type of 2,000 ton frigates built by the new Ba Son shipyard.
> 
> Exocet, Aster, Mica are very expensive. the Navy wants to signal to the Russians, we can buy from European defence companies, reducing our dependency on a large single provider, a better price, more technology transfer. second, the high price of such missiles (if $3 millions a piece, then it is a crazy overpriced price) only makes sense if we get access to the technology.



It makes sense. I hope you are right about Exocet, Aster and Mica.

I'd like to see a improved Talwar class from India with a good load of Barak 8 and at least 8 Brahmos, but prefer 16.

This is the improved Russian version of the Talwar, Admiral Gregorovich. 4000 tons.

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## Viet

*Helis*

Ka-28 can operate both day and night, also in conditions up to sea state 5 and at ranges up to 200 km from the take-off pads. we can expect the number of Ka-28 (currently seven configured as submarine hunter) to increase with time to come, as new Gepard frigates come on the scene. the helis are equipped with radar, sonar, sound buoys, able to detect enemy submerged submarines at a depth of 500 m, fighting them with a variety of weapons including 400 mm torpedoes.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> @Viet @Aqsuperman I saw this in comcom, not sure if its a joke or for real. What do you think? We were just talking about Aster the other day. Aster and Mica missiles for Sigma 10514 ships? Not clear if both missiles are for ships or only the Mica. The Aster contract that was talked about before was for the land based version.
> 
> Damn, I want Indian ships with Barak 8, not this overpriced European stuff. Barak 8 is $1 million, Aster 30 is $2.5-3 million. European ships will come with Exocet, I'd like to see Brahmos or Kalibr.
> 
> Điểm tin trưa
> 
> Sau thất bại của đội tuyển Pháp trước Bồ Đào Nha tại chung kết Euro 2016, Bộ Quốc phòng Đông Lào tuyên bố đã hoàn tất việc ký hợp đồng đặt mua 200 quả tên lửa phòng không Aster-30 (tầm bắn 120 km, ước tính 2,5-3 triệu USD/quả) và 240 quả VL MICA (tầm bắn 20 km, giá 1,5 triệu USD/quả) từ tập đoàn MBDA. Các tên lửa này dự kiến sẽ được trang bị trên loạt tàu hộ vệ tên lửa và khu trục đang được phía Hà Lan đóng cho Đông Lào.
> 
> Phía Đông Lào cũng tỏ ý hài lòng với việc Pháp để thua trong trận đấu vừa rồi, cho biết nước này đang rất trông đợi vào các hợp đồng sắp tới, dự kiến sẽ được ký kết vào năm 2018. Quán bia ‪#‎ComCom‬ sẽ đưa tin thêm về các thương vụ này trong thời gian tới.
> 
> - Quán bia tổng hợp -
> 
> The lunch
> After the failure of the National Team France before Portugal at the euro 2016 final, *the department of defense east laos declare complete and sign the contract to purchase 200 rmissiles Aster-30 (Shooting range for 120 miles, an estimate 2,5-3 million USD per missile) and 240 VL Mica missiles (range, 20 miles, price $ 1,5 million per missile) from Reece Mbda. The fire will be equipment on a series of missile escort ships and the shaft is in the Netherlands, close to the east.*
> 
> East Laos (Vietnam) also deliberately happy to France to lose in the game right now, know the water is very expected in the upcoming contract, will be signed in year 2018. The bar beer ‪#‎comcom‬ Trust will get you more information about this deal in time for me.
> - Bar Beer Total -
> ‪#‎Atsm‬. ‪#‎JK‬



aqsuperman may have left when you joined with a few others to attack/criticize VN government.



William Hung said:


> aqsuperman may have left when you joined with a few others to attack/criticize VN government.



Maybe it would be a good idea for you to rescind your fierce criticism and apologize to aqsuperman and the fellow Vietnamese countrymen who might be offended.


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## Viet

this thread is not a place for political correctness. it is all about updating, discussing unlimited topics on vietnamese army history, its activities and the people, it is about exchanging opinions, regardless if right or wrong in the first place. also it is about expressing critics and thanks. it is not the right place to glorify a party. other places are better suitable. so what do I want to say?

@Carlosa
unless it is about racism, personal attack or insult, I see no need to anyone to apology to any individual posters who may have felt offended. demanding such a thing is out of place.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> aqsuperman may have left when you joined with a few others to attack/criticize VN government.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it would be a good idea for you to rescind your fierce criticism and apologize to aqsuperman and the fellow Vietnamese countrymen who might be offended.



I guess a lot of people support or are involved in the government corruption then. Too bad the truth hurts. Apologies are given when someone is wrong. Feel free to show me that I was wrong.

Can continue tomorrow, have a plane to catch........

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## Nike

* Russia Proposed Upgrade Package for Vietnamese PT-76B *

09 Juli 2016




PT-76 of the Vietnamese Navy (photos : kienthuc, baodatviet)

The Group of specialized machinery production and metallurgy Russia has released proposed upgrade package PT-76 amphibious vehicles to customers, including Vietnam.

The service of armored forces in Vietnam has a large number (around 450) of amphibious tanks of the Soviet Union and other countries of the socialist block development in the years 1949 to 1951, PT-76 is later with generation 2 is PT-76B 1958.

3-person crew, including artillery fire the 76.2 mm, 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun. Can enhance 12.7 mm anti-aircraft guns. Relatively thin armor vehicles, about 20 mm hood and turret so weak protection against armor piercing ammunition or antitank.

PT-76 is secreted primarily designed to support infantry in the muddy terrain where many tropical rivers. PT-76 car is payroll for the hit naval forces participated in the campaign the amphibious landing ship from the coast and islands, perform tasks and assist in support and firepower, destroy the car armored enemy.







Therefore amphibious vehicle capable of good, but only thin armor (ensuring the pool), weighing 14 tons. With 240 hp engine, the car has a top speed of 44km dirt road is / h, speed amphibious 10.2 km / h. In Vietnam, the PT-76 tanks were involved in many campaigns as Route 9 South Laos campaign, campaign synergistic An Loc and arms for several major campaigns.

Although there have been in service for a long time, PT-76 tanks remains a disruptive force defensive line hit the coast of the naval amphibious operations in the sea, crossing the coastal complex terrain shore and open corridors for infantry attacks.

In modern warfare, PT-76 has important weaknesses to overcome. That's weak firepower, artillery slow speeds (6-8 player / min), no air defense capability, no gun stabilization system - the viewfinder to shoot precisely so cars had to stop watching. Slow speed maneuverability both on water and on land.






Group special machinery production and metallurgy Russia has launched proposals designed to modernize amphibious tanks PT-76. Increase installed high rate of fire artillery, missile control systems and anti-sniper sight, fire control system of the new. This proposal could enhance the service life of the PT-76 for several more years. PT-76 car bodywork retains only, chassis and motion systems.

PT modernization plans - 76 to maximize firepower of tanks. Designers have proposed to completely replace the turret and armament.


The turret is designed according to the new model, mounted 57 mm automatic cannon, rocket launchers 4 anti-tank guided Cornet; Kord heavy machine guns of 12.7 mm; automatic grenade launcher AG-30; fire control system highly automated range and opto-electronic devices searched target detection.

-----------

some of Indonesian PT-76 had been modernized, using caterpillar engines, newest and robust suspension system, some of the cannon being replaced with Cockerill 90 mm low pressurized gun

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## Viet

@madokafc

do you want to say Indonesia can upgrade our light tanks with a competitive price?


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## xiao qi

William Hung said:


> aqsuperman may have left when you joined with a few others to attack/criticize VN government.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it would be a good idea for you to rescind your fierce criticism and apologize to aqsuperman and the fellow Vietnamese countrymen who might be offended.


he was banned by wrong actions in somewhere. Something wrong when i and some fellows blame for vietnamese government? I live and grow in Vietnam too, im also a patriot man and want vietnam becoming a developed country..So i hate our government's corruption, Isnt it right?

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## Bennedict

Viet said:


> @madokafc
> 
> do you want to say Indonesia can upgrade our light tanks with a competitive price?


We're upgrading them during 90's with help from NIMDA Israel, they're already bankrupt though, better replace them with better armoured vehicles, like BMP-3.

PT-76's armor so thin that HMG fire might penetrate them with ease from sides. Ours were replaced with the better BMP-3F, although many still in service as an infantry support and training role.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> aqsuperman may have left when you joined with a few others to attack/criticize VN government.
> 
> Maybe it would be a good idea for you to rescind your fierce criticism and apologize to aqsuperman and the fellow Vietnamese countrymen who might be offended.



Lets get some basic things clear here. A couple of weeks ago or so, the Vietnamese prime minister, Mr. Phuc said that government corruption is the biggest problem in Vietnam.

So, are you saying that the Vietnamese prime minister was wrong?
Who are you to say that I should apologize for saying the same type of things that the Vietnamese prime minister said?
Did you ask PM Phuc to apologize because of his statements?
Did he offend you because of those statements? Hearing the truth is offensive to you?

Some Vietnamese people prefer to look the other way and not mind the corruption in Vietnam. I say that they are the ones that should apologize because by looking the other way and criticizing those who bring it up, they have become accessories to the corruption, so they should apologize to the majority of the Vietnamese people who is constantly been victimized by government corruption.

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## Farhan Bohra

William Hung said:


> aqsuperman may have left when you joined with a few others to attack/criticize VN government.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it would be a good idea for you to rescind your fierce criticism and apologize to aqsuperman and the fellow Vietnamese countrymen who might be offended.



Let me clear something, maybe those would be harsh. 

In 21st century, Millennium + 16, there is no hope for single party rule in anywhere in world. 

I m not lecturing on democracy, but those are hard realities. 

Communism & single party rule concept was dead on 25th Dec 1991. There is no hope for them. 

And without scrutiny, and single party rule, it obviously invite corruption and coverups. And no questions asked. Just check the China, how much fukd up they are. 






The Communist Party of Vietnam can delay this inevitable that there citizens won't demand democracy. But not for long.

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## vtnsx

William Hung said:


> aqsuperman may have left when you joined with a few others to attack/criticize VN government.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it would be a good idea for you to rescind your fierce criticism and apologize to aqsuperman and the fellow Vietnamese countrymen who might be offended.



William Hung, I guess I was wrong about you too. AQSuperman is nothing but a troll in this forum. There is nothing wrong with his pride regarding VN government.. but too much pride is never healthy. Please don't take your pride to fuel your emotion with anger and impaired your judgement. VN Government has the good and the bad. In this case, the bad outweighs the good. People are not dumb and they recognize the imbalance of power so they voiced out. Everyone is free to think and express themselves freely. You shouldn't tell people how to think or behave without knowing why, and judge them based on their criticism without knowing how they came to that opinion.

If Vietnamese cannot understand the word "transparency" then obviously, they aren't ready for a better country and government. Thank god, not every Vietnamese are that ignorant. Nobody is perfect but that doesn't mean people/government cannot improve its self/structure and strive to be better. I do see that VN government is improving, there's no doubt about that. Having the right people running for VN government is always a better start. The struggle is real. But, there's always that but. VN government used to lie to people to get what they want and this is where I cannot trust them, yet.

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## Carlosa

vtnsx said:


> William Hung, I guess I was wrong about you too. AQSuperman is nothing but a troll in this forum. There is nothing wrong with his pride regarding VN government.. but too much pride is never healthy. Please don't take your pride to fuel your emotion with anger and impaired your judgement. VN Government has the good and the bad. In this case, the bad outweighs the good. People are not dumb and they recognize the imbalance of power so they voiced out. Everyone is free to think and express themselves freely. You shouldn't tell people how to think or behave without knowing why, and judge them based on their criticism without knowing how they came to that opinion.
> 
> If Vietnamese cannot understand the word "transparency" then obviously, they aren't ready for a better country and government. Thank god, not every Vietnamese are that ignorant. Nobody is perfect but that doesn't mean people/government cannot improve its self/structure and strive to be better. I do see that VN government is improving, there's no doubt about that. Having the right people running for VN government is always a better start. The struggle is real. But, there's always that but. VN government used to lie to people to get what they want and this is where I cannot trust them, yet.



The type of pride that these people have is called "false pride".

*The definition of false pride:* False pride is presenting yourself to others (and yourself) as something you are not - a man without flaws. In this particular case, a country without flaws. False pride has to do with claiming that you are more than you believe you are, and that you know more than you believe you know. This kind of pride almost always requires outside confirmation or approval to cover up an inner feeling of inadequacy.

True pride has to do with acknowledging and respecting who you are and what you can do, without any outside confirmation or approval. In this particular case, acknowledging the negative elements of your country.

Actually, I like PM Phuc a lot. I think he truly cares and wants to fix things, but he has an uphill struggle. Best of luck to him.

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## 3Kingdoms

Guy's been watching video of 'Normandy Invasion'




Basically allies sent planes for recon, then sent bombers to destroy high value assets. That makes me think, Vietnam needs those S400s' to protect the mainland. But small island in spratly is out of mainlands defence umbrella. China H6K can knock out Extra missiles with cruise missiles (forget about Orbiter UAVs). 
We can try camouflage the Extra missiles, but with satellite and modern recon cameras things are looking rubbish. How do we defend against H6K? Are weaponizing these small island a waste of money?

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## Nike

Bennedict said:


> We're upgrading them during 90's with help from NIMDA Israel, they're already bankrupt though, better replace them with better armoured vehicles, like BMP-3.
> 
> PT-76's armor so thin that HMG fire might penetrate them with ease from sides. Ours were replaced with the better BMP-3F, although many still in service as an infantry support and training role.



well local company like Pindad still offering upgrade package though, as what they did with good ol man amx13


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> well local company like Pindad still offering upgrade package though, as what they did with good ol man amx13



Depending on how its going to be used, it can make good sense to upgrade the PT-76.

A PT-76 upgraded with a new turret with a 76mm gun makes a lot of sense, that gun has a high rate of fire, which is very important if the PT-76 will be used for infantry support. A 57mm trumps the typical 30mm found in most IFVs.

The armor needs to have extra plates added so that it can became closer to what is standard for an IFV.
Most IFV vehicles can't handle more than 30mm incoming fire and some can't even handle that. Very few can handle more than 30mm.

Vietnam has 450 PT-76s, so it makes sense to upgrade them and use them for the army as infantry support. Once with added armor, it might not be amphibious any more, but that's ok for the army. I'm not sure if the water jets can be upgraded to handle more weight. Some amphibious vehicles are 22 plus tons.

If they are going to be used for the marines as front line amphibious armor on the other hand, they would definitely need to be replaced in that role.

For the marines, Vietnam is replacing them with BMP-3 F and the BTR-60 is getting replaced with the BTR-82.



3Kingdoms said:


> Guy's been watching video of 'Normandy Invasion'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically allies sent planes for recon, then sent bombers to destroy high value assets. That makes me think, Vietnam needs those S400s' to protect the mainland. But small island in spratly is out of mainlands defence umbrella. China H6K can knock out Extra missiles with cruise missiles (forget about Orbiter UAVs).
> We can try camouflage the Extra missiles, but with satellite and modern recon cameras things are looking rubbish. How do we defend against H6K? Are weaponizing these small island a waste of money?



Correct, that's the whole point. Those islands are outside the mainland protective umbrella, so there isn't much that can be done at the moment. Can't go head to head with the chinese in that area. Those islands are actually inside the chinese defensive umbrella, so there is no point in weaponizing the islands beyond a certain point, just enough to make it clear that there will be a real fight, that's all. After that, just heavy retaliation against the chinese islands as a deterrent.

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## Aqsuperman

Uh.........actually im still around though. Just not really like the tone of some people claim the need to "wipe out" the entire goverment and cause political instability just to fix the ongoing problem including corruption so i just browns for news and stuffs. I have NO need for an apologize or anything resemble it so please dont put words into my mouth, its very disgusting and retard...............Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works. 

There are admirable success and of course catastrophic failures as well. With the current level of Vietnam citizen cultural standard, its will be just another south vietnam with endless coups and election frauds if democracy to be implanted. Feel free to believe that citizen of a country that cant even throw trash into the can that are 5 steps away can make wonderful and miracle advances by democracy. Your call, i have no arguments otherwise. 

Due to several job training requirement, i have little time for anything else. But you do realize that #ATSM and #JK stand for at the end of the post right ?

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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Uh.........actually im still around though. Just not really like the tone of some people claim the need to "wipe out" the entire goverment and cause political instability just to fix the ongoing problem including corruption so i just browns for news and stuffs. I have NO need for an apologize or anything resemble it so please dont put words into my mouth, its very disgusting and retard...............Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works.
> 
> There are admirable success and of course catastrophic failures as well. With the current level of Vietnam citizen cultural standard, its will be just another south vietnam with endless coups and election frauds if democracy to be implanted. Feel free to believe that citizen of a country that cant even throw trash into the can that are 5 steps away can make wonderful and miracle advances by democracy. Your call, i have no arguments otherwise.
> 
> Due to several job training requirement, i have little time for anything else. But you do realize that #ATSM and #JK stand for at the end of the post right ?



"Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works. "

That is a good advice for yourself, AQ. 

Your knowledge about Democracy is very limited. But your judgement is very strong; however, it is baseless. I can understand where you came from, but Democracy is not what you think it is.. Democracy has orders and structures. Same with Communist, however, Democracy is more well structured and much more organized and complicated. Democracy is not the same for every country. Some countries has different rules and regulations. Those rules and regulations are usually created because of a previous incident such as terrorist attack. Not every Democratic countries face the same problem.

The big difference between a Communist country vs a Democratic country is that people are protected by rules of laws and regulations. Those laws are protected by the Constitution. Those who challenge the Constitution are punished, this include government officials. They are not immune to it. Another difference is that the Media are allowed to say what they want and how they feel. The government are not allowed to interfere with the media. Why? because less government control of the media means more "TRANSPARENCY" for the country. Of course, the Media are not that dumb to spew garbage about its Government because they will be criticize rightful-fully by the people. This is why you got things like "Youtube" with rating system.

It is so obvious that Democracy is much more refined than Communism of Vietnam/China. Refinement is a process of taking in CRITICISM and analyze and acknowledge those criticism to see if power is balanced/fair for the people. There's a reason why it is hard for the US government to ban the sales of weapon to its citizens. That is because the US has what is called The *Second Amendment* of the *United States* Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

This is to prevent the US Government from turning to Communist/Dictatorship.
Simply put it, the US and A hates COMMUNIST!!!!


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Uh.........actually im still around though. Just not really like the tone of some people claim the need to "wipe out" the entire goverment and cause political instability just to fix the ongoing problem including corruption so i just browns for news and stuffs. I have NO need for an apologize or anything resemble it so please dont put words into my mouth, its very disgusting and retard...............Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works.
> 
> There are admirable success and of course catastrophic failures as well. With the current level of Vietnam citizen cultural standard, its will be just another south vietnam with endless coups and election frauds if democracy to be implanted. Feel free to believe that citizen of a country that cant even throw trash into the can that are 5 steps away can make wonderful and miracle advances by democracy. Your call, i have no arguments otherwise.
> 
> Due to several job training requirement, i have little time for anything else. But you do realize that #ATSM and #JK stand for at the end of the post right ?



Its good to see that you are still around and its good to know that someone else was just putting words in your mouth.

Myself, I support Vietnam, that means that I support Vietnam as a country and as a people. I try to avoid getting into politics, but I do have a very thin patience for corruption. Corruption is an issue that is widely mentioned and talked about in Vietnam by the public, the press and the government itself, so I see no issues because of talking about that. If some people don't like to see discussion on that issue, well, its their problem. Nobody is forcing them to come to PDF if they don't like the subject.

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## Farhan Bohra

Aqsuperman said:


> Uh.........actually im still around though. Just not really like the tone of some people claim the need to "wipe out" the entire goverment and cause political instability just to fix the ongoing problem including corruption so i just browns for news and stuffs. I have NO need for an apologize or anything resemble it so please dont put words into my mouth, its very disgusting and retard...............Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works.
> 
> 
> There are admirable success and of course catastrophic failures as well. With the current level of Vietnam citizen cultural standard, its will be just another south vietnam with endless coups and election frauds if democracy to be implanted. Feel free to believe that citizen of a country that cant even throw trash into the can that are 5 steps away can make wonderful and miracle advances by democracy. Your call, i have no arguments otherwise.
> 
> Due to several job training requirement, i have little time for anything else. But you do realize that #ATSM and #JK stand for at the end of the post right ?




You think there was no political instability in Vietnam, after defeating Saigon? Are you serious? Maybe you are giving preferential treatment to partial history and ignoring other half.

Why after Vietnam War, CPV changed name of Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City?
Isnt the Saigon is right name for that city and historically correct ??



> *Saigon*
> 
> *An etymology of Saigon (or Sài Gòn in Vietnamese) is that Sài is a Sino-Vietnamese word (Hán tự:柴) meaning "firewood, lops, twigs; palisade", while Gòn is another Sino-Vietnamese word (Hán tự:棍) meaning "stick, pole, bole", and whose meaning evolved into "cotton" in Vietnamese (bông gòn, literally "cotton stick", i.e., "cotton plant", then shortened to gòn). This name may refer to the many kapok plants that the Khmer people had planted around Prey Nokor, and which can still be seen at Cây Mai temple and surrounding areas. It may also refer to the dense and tall forest that once existed around the city, a forest to which the Khmer name, Prey Nokor, already referred.[11]*
> 
> *Other proposed etymologies draw parallels from Tai-Ngon (堤 岸), the Cantonese name of Cholon, which means "embankment" (French:quais),[nb 3] and Vietnamese Sai Côn, a translation of the Khmer Prey Nokor (Khmer: ព្រៃនគរ). Prey means forest or jungle, and nokor is a Khmer word of Sanskrit origin meaning city or kingdom, and related to the English word 'Nation' — thus, "forest city" or "forest kingdom".[nb 4]*
> 
> *Truong Mealy (former director of King Norodom Sihanouk's royal Cabinet), says that, according to a Khmer Chronicle, The Collection of the Council of the Kingdom, Prey Nokor's proper name was Preah Reach Nokor (Khmer: ព្រោះរាជនគរ), "Royal City"; later locally corrupted to "Prey kor", meaning "kapok forest", from which "Saigon" was derived ("kor" meaning "kapok" in Khmer and Cham, going into Vietnamese as "gòn" ).[12] *



Or changing the name of Saigon was actually political to show citizens of South that North won, and you lost? 

Why after War CPV done purges for more than decades? Why? The Vietnam was perfectly stable, why required purges? Why established reeducation centers?
No answer?

And as I am not citizen of Vietnam, I have no right to comment on it. But if your argument is political instability, and thats why one party rule is alright. Thats BS.


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## vtnsx

Carlosa said:


> The type of pride that these people have is called "false pride".
> 
> *The definition of false pride:* False pride is presenting yourself to others (and yourself) as something you are not - a man without flaws. In this particular case, a country without flaws. False pride has to do with claiming that you are more than you believe you are, and that you know more than you believe you know. This kind of pride almost always requires outside confirmation or approval to cover up an inner feeling of inadequacy.
> 
> True pride has to do with acknowledging and respecting who you are and what you can do, without any outside confirmation or approval. In this particular case, acknowledging the negative elements of your country.
> 
> Actually, I like PM Phuc a lot. I think he truly cares and wants to fix things, but he has an uphill struggle. Best of luck to him.



Yes, I think most investors want to see is less government involvement into doing businesses and focus more on laws, regulations and stability for businesses and politics.


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## Farhan Bohra

Aqsuperman said:


> Uh.........actually im still around though. Just not really like the tone of some people claim the need to "wipe out" the entire goverment and cause political instability just to fix the ongoing problem including corruption so i just browns for news and stuffs. I have NO need for an apologize or anything resemble it so please dont put words into my mouth, its very disgusting and retard...............Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works.
> 
> There are admirable success and of course catastrophic failures as well. With the current level of Vietnam citizen cultural standard, its will be just another south vietnam with endless coups and election frauds if democracy to be implanted. Feel free to believe that citizen of a country that cant even throw trash into the can that are 5 steps away can make wonderful and miracle advances by democracy. Your call, i have no arguments otherwise.
> 
> Due to several job training requirement, i have little time for anything else. But you do realize that #ATSM and #JK stand for at the end of the post right ?


I am very straight forward guy. I want to ask a simple question.

Stalingrad now known as Volgograd, Leningrad now know as Saint Petersburg. When Vietnam changing the name of city Ho Chi Minh?

When they renaming this to original name and to historically correct name?

From when they stop portraying a human being Ho Chi Minh as larger than life, and putting above Vietnam? One should remember there is nothing above Vietnam, not even CPV.

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## vtnsx

Farhan Bohra said:


> You think there was no political instability in Vietnam, after defeating Saigon? Are you serious? Maybe you are giving preferential treatment to partial history and ignoring other half.
> 
> Why after Vietnam War, CPV changed name of Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City?
> Isnt the Saigon is right name for that city and historically correct ??
> 
> 
> 
> Or changing the name of Saigon was actually political to show citizens of South that North won, and you lost?
> 
> Why after War CPV done purges for more than decades? Why? The Vietnam was perfectly stable, why required purges? Why established reeducation centers?
> No answer?
> 
> And as I am not citizen of Vietnam, I have no right to comment on it. But if your argument is political instability, and thats why one party rule is alright. Thats BS.



In business, one party rule, we call that "monopoly"
In politics, we call it "communist and dictatorship"

Both breed corruption.



Farhan Bohra said:


> I am very straight forward guy. I want to ask a simple question.
> 
> Stalingrad now known as Volgograd, Leningrad now know as Saint Petersburg. When Vietnam changing the name of city Ho Chi Minh?
> 
> When they renaming this to original name and to historically correct name?
> 
> From when they stop portraying a human being Ho Chi Minh as larger than life, and putting above Vietnam? One should remember there is nothing above Vietnam, not even CPV.



The problem with North Vietnamese thinker is that they don't believe in a fair fight.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Nobody is forcing them to come to PDF if they don't like the subject.



Ignoring the problems doesnt always solve problems, one should accept that, and then find solutions for it. 
But personally I dont like people loving a party or a person more than their country. I dont know but it boils my blood, how one person can love a party above her country?

The problem is after Vietnam War, there was a huge polarity in mindset of citizens of South & North. And instead of making cure of it, CPV enlarged it. And showed South like North is conqueror, instead of showing that all are citizens of Vietnam, no matter what where they are from.
To remove this polarity of mindset, CPV done purges and established reeducation programs. In my sense, that was worst for Vietnam. 

In my thinking, the CPV should be dissolved right after the war, and should negotiate a political structure that include all. Not just leaders that are with CPV tags, but from other parties too, and calling the elections right away. CPV done there job, they won the war, CPV never was a political party, all were military guys. That was the only solution to remove the polarity of mindsets.







Just check this, why on Planet Earth a Minister of Defence wearing military uniform, isnt he should be a political guy and in civilian cloths. 

An Armed Forces should be best fit & best trained, not best thinker. And policy making like Defence Minister should be a best thinker.

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## vtnsx

Farhan Bohra said:


> Ignoring the problems doesnt always solve problems, one should accept that, and then find solutions for it.
> But personally I dont like people loving a party or a person more than their country. I dont know but it boils my blood, how one person can love a party above her country?
> 
> The problem is after Vietnam War, there was a huge polarity in mindset of citizens of South & North. And instead of making cure of it, CPV enlarged it. And showed South like North is conqueror, instead of showing that all are citizens of Vietnam, no matter what where they are from.
> To remove this polarity of mindset, CPV done purges and established reeducation programs. In my sense, that was worst for Vietnam.
> 
> In my thinking, the CPV should be dissolved right after the war, and should negotiate a political structure that include all. Not just leaders that are with CPV tags, but from other parties too, and calling the elections right away. CPV done there job, they won the war, CPV never was a political party, all were military guys. That was the only solution to remove the polarity of mindsets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just check this, why on Planet Earth a Minister of Defence wearing military uniform, isnt he should be a political guy and in civilian cloths.
> 
> An Armed Forces should be best fit & best trained, not best thinker. And policy making like Defence Minister should be a best thinker.



Because they view all the South Viet as traitors and want to make their lives harder which is part of their revenge for the hardship that they have endured for not following the footsteps to Democracy.

Now, after they have won the war, playing with China and got ditched, they are coming to America asking for help and forgiveness. This to me they were wrong about Democracy. Vietnam's future is in the hands of the younger generation. The South knows never to trust the Chinese. Long story short, they have different mindset, North and South.

These military guys don't know how to dress when meeting presidents of countries. They are more of a dictator than anything. There are a few people who understand the dress code such as Nguyen Tan Dung.


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## Farhan Bohra

vtnsx said:


> Because they view all the South Viet as traitors and want to make their lives harder which is part of their revenge for the hardship that they have endured for not following the footsteps to Democracy.
> 
> Now, after they have won the war, playing with China and got ditched, they are coming to America asking for help and forgiveness. This to me they were wrong about Democracy. Vietnam's future is in the hands of the younger generation. The South knows never to trust the Chinese. Long story short, they have different mindset, North and South.
> 
> These military guys don't know how to dress when meeting presidents of countries. They are more of a dictator than anything. There are a few people who understand the dress code such as Nguyen Tan Dung.



Can you provide what oath Vietnam Armed Force's officers take after passing out from Academy? Or which oath PM & President take?

I am unable to find anything over internet.


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Can you provide what oath Vietnam Armed Force's officers take after passing out from Academy? Or which oath PM & President take?
> 
> I am unable to find anything over internet.









Tran Dai Quang, the new state president of Vietnam. also he is de jure the Supreme Commander of Vietnam Armed Forces.

the oath before the Parliament:

“I swear to resolutely and persistently fight to protect Vietnam’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity, as well as its national interests and security”.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Can you provide what oath Vietnam Armed Force's officers take after passing out from Academy? Or which oath PM & President take?
> 
> I am unable to find anything over internet.



If I remember correctly, when the constitution was changed last year, they changed the oath from the country to the party. Same as in China.



Farhan Bohra said:


> Ignoring the problems doesnt always solve problems, one should accept that, and then find solutions for it.
> But personally I dont like people loving a party or a person more than their country. I dont know but it boils my blood, how one person can love a party above her country?
> 
> The problem is after Vietnam War, there was a huge polarity in mindset of citizens of South & North. And instead of making cure of it, CPV enlarged it. And showed South like North is conqueror, instead of showing that all are citizens of Vietnam, no matter what where they are from.
> To remove this polarity of mindset, CPV done purges and established reeducation programs. In my sense, that was worst for Vietnam.
> 
> In my thinking, the CPV should be dissolved right after the war, and should negotiate a political structure that include all. Not just leaders that are with CPV tags, but from other parties too, and calling the elections right away. CPV done there job, they won the war, CPV never was a political party, all were military guys. That was the only solution to remove the polarity of mindsets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just check this, why on Planet Earth a Minister of Defence wearing military uniform, isnt he should be a political guy and in civilian cloths.
> 
> An Armed Forces should be best fit & best trained, not best thinker. And policy making like Defence Minister should be a best thinker.



They placed the party first because the party "provides" if you get my drift.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> If I remember correctly, when the constitution was changed last year, they changed the oath from the country to the party. Same as in China.
> 
> 
> 
> They placed the party first because the party "provides" if you get my drift.


the oath demands the top leader to protect the *Nation*, the People and the Constitution. Nation comes first.

but here is the thing: the Party is assigned the leadership in the Constitution. so for example, the Chairwoman of Vietnam’s National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan says after the oath: “I vow to fulfill all missions assigned by the *Party*, state and people”. Party comes first.

I don´t think there was a change in the Constitution.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> the oath demands the top leader to protect the *Nation*, the People and the Constitution. Nation comes first.
> 
> but here is the thing: the Party is assigned the leadership in the Constitution. so for example, the Chairwoman of Vietnam’s National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan says after the oath: “I vow to fulfill all missions assigned by the *Party*, state and people”. Party comes first.
> 
> I don´t think there was a change in the Constitution.



I remember reading that it was going to be changed in the update of the constitution, I think it was last year, but I'll have to dig out some articles.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> If I remember correctly, when the constitution was changed last year, they changed the oath from the country to the party. Same as in China.
> 
> 
> 
> They placed the party first because the party "provides" if you get my drift.


Leave China, there oath is whole propaganda of CCP and nothing else. And swear to protect the party.




Viet said:


> the oath demands the top leader to protect the *Nation*, the People and the Constitution. Nation comes first.
> 
> but here is the thing: the Party is assigned the leadership in the Constitution. so for example, the Chairwoman of Vietnam’s National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan says after the oath: “I vow to fulfill all missions assigned by the *Party*, state and people”. Party comes first.
> 
> I don´t think there was a change in the Constitution.



The topmost priority for any leader and Armed Forces should be protecting constitution, and sovereignty derived from Constitution. 

Like Oath of US Armed Forces is 



> I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.



Oath of Indian Armed Forces



> I ( name) hereby solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of India, as by law established and that I will, as in duty bound honestly and faithfully, serve in the regular Army of the Union of India and go where ever ordered, by land, sea or air, and that I will observe and obey all the commands of the President of the Union of India and the commands of any officer set above me, even to the peril of my life.

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I guess a lot of people support or are involved in the government corruption then. Too bad the truth hurts. Apologies are given when someone is wrong. Feel free to show me that I was wrong.
> 
> Can continue tomorrow, have a plane to catch........



I thought you said you are mature and so could understand people well. I am amused that you couldn’t see what I have just done...I have actually done you a favor by making him speak up and post again. You cannot remember how I have once previously made the said member to “speak” about certain things, without him even realizing it? Even if he was disgrunted about what had been said here and dont want to post anymore, he would still be compelled to speak up after reading what I had said to you.

But dont expect too much...the disgrunt is still there, so he was only speaking up to clarify himself, I think he is still too disgrunted to respond to you about that comcom post on Aster/Mica order.

Now...wait and see.

BTW, the more interesting stuff to talk about is the difference between Russian/western system, its FCS, coummunications, the possibility of interfacing them etc. But you guys went and talk about something else, oh well.



vtnsx said:


> William Hung, I guess I was wrong about you too.



Yes, indeed you were wrong about me. You thought I was some kind of naive malleable kid who could easily be influenced and brain washed, didn’t you? Hence, why you insists on lecturing me about how bad VN govt is, etc.

I am a leftist socialist, an independent thinker. And no, I don’t think VN is a genuine socialist country and neither is the VCP a genuine communist party. I hate the pro-VCP apologists who gives nonsense argument just to defend the party. But let me tell you, I also hate as much the anti-VCP camp, especially the oversea ones like the Viet Tan, who talks as much nonsense as the pro-VCP apologists. Nonsense that they commonly say are things like , “the VCP is controlled by the CCP”, etc. Things that even western analysts will disagree with. Nonsense like that coming from nonsense group like Viet Tan does more harm than good. Real Viets who want to work for change can get associated with their nonsense and lose credential.

If you genuinely want Vietnam to progress, then by all means you have the right to criticize or discuss issues wrt VN. But do it with proper data and intelligence, don’t just scream out slogans like “VN govt is destroying the country”, “VCP dont know how to rule” or outright lies like “VCP is controlled by CCP”. I have previously opened many topics on issues related to VN, and even asked non-VNmese for comments and knowledge. I have learnt more from that than the slogans screamed out by VT and the likes.



Farhan Bohra said:


> You think there was no political instability in Vietnam, after defeating Saigon? Are you serious? Maybe you are giving preferential treatment to partial history and ignoring other half.
> 
> Why after Vietnam War, CPV changed name of Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City?
> Isnt the Saigon is right name for that city and historically correct ??
> 
> 
> 
> Or changing the name of Saigon was actually political to show citizens of South that North won, and you lost?
> 
> Why after War CPV done purges for more than decades? Why? The Vietnam was perfectly stable, why required purges? Why established reeducation centers?
> No answer?
> 
> And as I am not citizen of Vietnam, I have no right to comment on it. But if your argument is political instability, and thats why one party rule is alright. Thats BS.



The “political stability” argument is just an excuse to justify a ruling regime. The flaw with this argument is that it can only be a valid justification if “political stability” is interpreted as an end in itself, rather than a means to an end. But, a country’s progress, flourishing, etc. should be the ends. “Political stability” is a means to an end, a condition to make the said ends possible.

So even if a regime can provide “political stability”, it is meaningless if it cannot provide progress and flourishment to the country...or worse...impinge on that progress by spreading corruption, etc. The North Korean regime provides political stability, but it is meaningless because it does not help the country to progress and flourish. In other words, it can only achieve one of the “means to an ends”, but impinge on the ends itself. So therein lies the flaw of the “political stability” argument to justify a regime: the argument can only work if “political stability” is an end in itself, the final goal of a country. But it is not, it is only a means to an ends. Progress and flourishing of a country should be the ends, they are the final goals of a country. So if a regime can provide “political stability” but impinge on progress and flourishing, then “political stability” in this case cannot be used as a justification for that regime.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam says China 'sank' fishing boat in disputed sea*

July 12, 2016 12:59 pm

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bre...sank-fishing-boat-in-disputed-s-30290369.html

*HANOI - Vietnam has accused the Chinese coastguard of sinking a fishing boat near a disputed island chain, authorities said Tuesday, ahead of key UN-backed ruling on claims in the flashpoint South China Sea.*
Two Vietnamese boats were chased by a pair of Chinese coastguard ships on Saturday afternoon off Vietnam’s Quang Ngai province, the Vietnam Fisheries Society (Vinafis) said in a statement. 

One ship was boarded by Chinese coastguards who forced the crew overboard, Vinafis said, while a second vessel was prevented from reaching the stranded fishermen.

"Chinese men jumped onto fisherman Vo Van Luu’s boat, struck the Vietnamese sailors and... sunk the vessel," forcing five crew members overboard, the statement said.

The five fishermen remained in the sea until dark, when the second Vietnamese vessel was able to approach the area.


Vinafis "condemned" the incident and demanded compensation from China. 

There was no immediate comment from China on the allegations.

Beijing lays claim to virtually all of the South China Sea, putting it at odds with regional neighbours the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, which also have partial claims.

Later Tuesday the UN-backed Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague is set to rule on the legality of China’s claims to an area of the sea contested by the Philippines.

It is a much anticipated court ruling with analysts saying a verdict that goes against Beijing could see a spike in aggressive actions in the area.

Vietnam and China frequently trade diplomatic barbs over the disputed Paracel island chain and waters in the South China Sea.

China is encouraging patriotic tourists to visit the contested Paracels, which are known as Xisha in Chinese.

Such acts have deepened already simmering anti-Chinese sentiment in Vietnam.

At least three Chinese people were killed in 2014 when rioting broke out in Vietnam after Beijing sent an oil rig into contested waters.

- AFP


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## vtnsx

Farhan Bohra said:


> Leave China, there oath is whole propaganda of CCP and nothing else. And swear to protect the party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The topmost priority for any leader and Armed Forces should be protecting constitution, and sovereignty derived from Constitution.
> 
> Like Oath of US Armed Forces is
> 
> 
> 
> Oath of Indian Armed Forces



Vietnam is still working on that.

"
Even as we cooperate more closely in the areas I’ve described, our partnership includes a third element -- addressing areas where our governments disagree, including on human rights. I say this not to single out Vietnam. No nation is perfect. Two centuries on, the United States is still striving to live up to our founding ideals. We still deal with our shortcomings -- too much money in our politics, and rising economic inequality, racial bias in our criminal justice system, women still not being paid as much as men doing the same job. We still have problems. And we're not immune from criticism, I promise you. I hear it every day. But that scrutiny, that open debate, confronting our imperfections, and allowing everybody to have their say has helped us grow stronger and more prosperous and more just.

I’ve said this before -- the United States does not seek to impose our form of government on Vietnam. The rights I speak of I believe are not American values; *I think they're universal values written into the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. They're written into the Vietnamese constitution, which states that “citizens have the right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press, and have the right of access to information, the right to assembly, the right to association, and the right to demonstrate.” That’s in the Vietnamese constitution. (Applause.) So really, this is an issue about all of us, each country, trying to consistently apply these principles, making sure that we -- those of us in government -- are being true to these ideals. *

In recent years, Vietnam has made some progress. *Vietnam has committed to bringing its laws in line with its new constitution and with international norms*. Under recently passed laws, the government will disclose more of its budget and the public will have the right to access more information. And, as I said, Vietnam has committed to economic and labor reforms under the TPP. So these are all positive steps. And ultimately, the future of Vietnam will be decided by the people of Vietnam. Every country will chart its own path, and our two nations have different traditions and different political systems and different cultures. But as a friend of Vietnam, allow me to share my view -- why I believe nations are more successful when universal rights are upheld."

Read more here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...emarks-president-obama-address-people-vietnam

Vietnam's constitution: http://www.constitutionnet.org/files/tranlation_of_vietnams_new_constitution_enuk_2.pdf

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## Carlosa

*Chinese fishing boat asked to leave Vietnamese waters*

http://www.thanhniennews.com/politi...t-asked-to-leave-vietnamese-waters-64096.html

By *Nguyen Phuc*, Thanh Nien News

*QUANG TRI* - Tuesday, July 12, 2016 






Vietnamese border guard officers check the Chinese boat with five crew members that illegally fished near Con Co Island in Quang Tri Province on July 11, 2016. Photo: Phuoc Trung

Border guards in the central province of Quang Tri said they turned away a Chinese fishing boat that was caught in Vietnamese waters on Monday. 

At 7 a.m. the local border guard agency was informed by local fishers that the Chinese boat was fishing illegally in the waters only three nautical miles from the island of Con Co, where the agency has a station.
One and a half hour later, a boat carrying a team of officers approached the Chinese boat codenamed 13177.

The officers checked the boat and informed the captain and five other crew members on the Chinese vessel that they had violated Vietnamese territorial waters. They ordered the crew to sign a report on the violation and confiscated their catch and fishing gears.
The boat was asked to leave immediately. 

According to the local border guard, there has been recently an increase of Chinese boats fishing illegally in Vietnamese waters, especially around the seafood-rich Con Co Island.

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## Aqsuperman

Well i LOVE when a military thread turn political by people who dont have remotely enough information about what is going on around the world or the history of a country yet boldly made many conclusions. Since certain people cant read and probably having a hard time on Google, i will give you some interesting information:

1/ "Baseless", "limited" ? Well the guy said that surely dont know anything about "Democracy" in the world except on books and pure theory. Let me list a few notable examples about what happen to "democracy" in the past. Do remember that i dont claim all democracy will be like this:

_ South Vietnam: A "certified" democracy by US standards. Now let google Ngo Dinh Diem assassination or coup and election frauds in South Vietnam. Feel free to read English sources and see what happen to that "democracy". Democracy like communism in a sense that if people act precisely and exactly like what on the theory, things will surely better, they both have a tight procedure and structure to follow. But as the VN old slogan :'Làm theo năng lực, hưởng theo nhu cầu" or "Do what you can, earn what you want" that fail miserably, democracy in Vietnam was and will face the same destruction. People care little about the country benefit, only about themselves. In just 5 years from 1960 to 1965 there are numerous coup attempts and assassination. The election frauds and corruptions are rampaging. Are there anyone got punished by the constitution? A few............if you lose that is. Guess the people at this time will do MUCH better eh ?

_South Korea: Another "certified" democracy by US standards. Nowadays the country is fine and prosperous because the people see the COUNTRY benefits first. Before that, things were much more difficult. I guess we all know the name of Park Chung Hee and Chun Doo hwan. These are generals that utilize the political instability to become president. While i do see many advantage they bring to the country, they are famous for many thing else. And for people that thought constitution will always fair and square, Yushin constitution will be a damn nice example. And what happen to them ? Chun Doo Hwan nearly kill a future SK president, embezzle state fund and what ? "A president pardon" and he got out easily.

_United States: Here we are, the biggest democracy in the world. I dont see any TRANSPARENCY anywhere. 2003 Iraq invasion, where is the god damn WMD ? The newspaper that cover the war sunk the issue down like nothing. 2011 Libya bombing, i mean for what ? "Free the people and bring them happiness" ? Now surely Libyan is in a state of "extreme happiness". And of course let talk about Richard Nixon with the famous Watergate scandal, what happen to him ? Jail time ? nope. "A president pardon" and there he goes out happy and fine. Well i guess being a president do help you a lot. Immunity were given out like fall leaves. Other people involved in such a massive scandal and surely unconstitutional event under orders by an active President never spend more than 3 years in jail............Well the biggest Democracy in the work "work out" very good eh ? Such "good and precise" punishment for Richard Nixon and his cliche, right ? "Challenge it and you will be punished" my butt. And you talk about the Second Amendments, you call its a tool for people to keep the government in check, i call it a cause for uncontrollable mass shootings and murders. Pick the one you like

2/ For the person that are NOT from Vietnam, here are also good stuff for you:

_ Dis i say we achieve stability right after 1975 ? i only say we have it NOW after LONG time. Dont put your "assumed" words into my mouth. And about the naming of the city. Ho Chi Minh is our leader in our war of revolution since the France time. People that serve the France and then the American against him were TRAITORS. You dont colonize a country, cut it in half and when someone achieved victory, re - unite the country and made changes, you claim that is wrong ? A location name can easily change a dozen times, why do we have to play by someone else preference ? I guess Washington D.C that is named after George Washington better change back to something like "State of Potomac" ? HISTORICALLY correct right ?

If this too hard to stomach for you, check this: Mount Rushmore. This is the place taken by American after the American - Indian war. Now in the 1927 after all the Indian got throw into the conservation, the first four presidents of the United States faces are carved into the mountain. Sound fair to the Indian ? Oh lets use your own word instead : "A political gestures to show that the Indian has lost their land, we own you now and here we will carve our founding presidents into the mountain to mark the occasion".

Purge and concentration camps. Well after the American Revolution and then the Civil war, things have to done about the American Royalist and the South States. Much have nothing against the new regime but there are people seeking the old ways. That when stuff go bad. In Vietnam, its the same. Printing counterfeit, mounting arms resistance, sabotaging key facilities, etc. What is your suggestion to stop it ? Sit by and wait till it happen more and more on a wider scale ? We did what it take, there are controversial mistakes and grave errors were makes but we try our best to made up for those people.

Foe conclusion, i did see many good qualities of democracy. but i also know that its can only be exploited by people with high cultural standards. If people only care about their own benefits, democracy will bring nothing but extra problems. Greek government now struggle to survive due to many presidents post - retirements care programs that strain the nation budgets. And that is only if we dont kill ourselves first and do China a big favor. Have fun hoping that our people can refine the thing instead of smashing it down and turn the country into a mass exodus that is happen on plenty of countries now.


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## Viet

@Carlosa
@3Kingdoms

we have a big island in the South China Sea. and not many people know about it. we can upgrade the infrastructure, making it to a naval base, to a military stronghold: Côn Đảo. Basing S-400 long range radar and air defence missiles there. the distance between the island and the spratlys is about 550 km. currently a hidden hotspot for holidaymakers. the islands have everything needed for people to live.










































when a russian media reports a potential sale of 4 divisions of S-400 airdefence system to Vietnam, then the thing gets a serious touch. the russians know how to make weapons. Let bring S-400 to Côn Đảo island.

http://rbth.com/news/2016/07/12/vietnam-eyes-s-400-triumf-system_610777

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## Han Patriot

That would not be a good idea. It will just get destroyed. We have S-400 too, we will get to all it's weaknesses and limitation. Imagine J-20s taking all of them out in night ops. 

Don't think the US is an angel, they will just turn you into an R&R base (You know what I mean) when you submit to their overlordship.


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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> That would not be a good idea. It will just get destroyed. We have S-400 too, we will get to all it's weaknesses and limitation. Imagine J-20s taking all of them out in night ops.
> 
> Don't think the US is an angel, they will just turn you into an R&R base (You know what I mean) when you submit to their overlordship.


no need to resort to insult. do you really want to attack S-400 missile battery with unproven airplanes?


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## cnleio

Vietnam 'Gepard' simulator

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## cnleio

Vietnam 'Gepard' simulator

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## Viet

@cnleio 

Wow great pictures thank for posting


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> no need to resort to insult. do you really want to attack S-400 missile battery with unproven airplanes?


Firstly, you need to get S400, second, if we have S400, we know how it works, surely there mus be some flaw we can exploit. Why no test the radar in China, and see if they can detect J20.


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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Firstly, you need to get S400, second, if we have S400, we know how it works, surely there mus be some flaw we can exploit. Why no test the radar in China, and see if they can detect J20.


yes China is the best. you probably know everything, even the weakness of our AK-47s we are using.

your planes are welcome to evade our radars, trying to escape our missiles. and as an appetizer for you, a picture during the Vietnam war, with the US, having the most powerful military on the planet, with supersonic airplanes employing all sorts of tricks including electronic warfare. 50 years ago.

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## cnleio

Han Patriot said:


> Firstly, you need to get S400, second, if we have S400, we know how it works, surely there mus be some flaw we can exploit. Why no test the radar in China, and see if they can detect J20.


Vietnam just purchase what China ever imported from Russia ... S-300, Kilo, Su-27sk, Su-30mk2, maybe S-400, the Russian sold these to Vietnam and make sure China know how to detect & defeat it. Right now Russia not stupid to hurt Sino-Russia relationship for Vietnam arms sale, there's nobody can replace China for Russia's biggest ally. Vietnam military force should try some West weapons.


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> Vietnam just purchase what China ever imported from Russia ... S-300, Kilo, Su-27sk, Su-30mk2, maybe S-400, the Russian sold these to Vietnam and make sure China know how to detect & defeat it. Right now Russia not stupid to hurt Sino-Russia relationship for Vietnam arms sale, there's nobody can replace China for Russia's biggest ally. Vietnam military force should try some West weapons.


since when is Russia your ally?

can you show me the China-Russia treaty?

If I was you I would not lay my fate on the Russians, sending young Chinese soldiers on suicide missions, hoping Putin would give you the code how to defeat Vietnam air defense.

True, we tend to copy goodies of China. Our next acquisition would be aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles.

by the way, I hope you have enough minesweepers in service, once we begin to lay out mines, protecting our islands, potentially bringing the entire commercial shipping in the SC sea to a standstill. As the biggest trader, you certainly know what that means for you.

we have 8 minesweepers in service. Old but still ok.


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## 3Kingdoms

cnleio said:


> Vietnam just purchase what China ever imported from Russia ... S-300, Kilo, Su-27sk, Su-30mk2, maybe S-400, the Russian sold these to Vietnam and make sure China know how to detect & defeat it. Right now Russia not stupid to hurt Sino-Russia relationship for Vietnam arms sale, there's nobody can replace China for Russia's biggest ally. Vietnam military force should try some West weapons.


My guess is a smart country would want technology so they engineer nuance to their particular region of operations. Besides Vietnam has the ultimate trump card China doesn't want ever happening, give Cam Ranh port to foreign power - maybe even a north port or THAAD! Vietnam doesn't want this but its a possibility nonetheless.
"Annam borders on China; her security concerns us. China's protection of that country should have no difference from that of Chinese provinces." - Marquis Zeng Jize 1881

@Viet @Carlosa - this is wishful thinking here but with the Spartly Island of Vietnam how I wish they would turn those islands into a tourist destination. Firstly we get international funding for the project (I know this is hard sell), international funding means any attack on those islands will automatically attack the nation of funds 'Hedging'. Also warfare is not just about bombs and bullets, this modern warfare involves information and public opinions, hence an enemy would dare not attack a place of international tourism (they could intimidate though). And who wouldn't want to holiday in the beautiful spartly islands where one can chillax while neighboring islands perform military drills. 
Check out these floating island we could link small island to island creating a chain. Because of tourist maybe we could secure region of fishing EEZ? Hire foreign as well as local coast guard as 'Hedging'. 
Floating & maneuverable

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## vtnsx

William Hung said:


> *Yes, indeed you were wrong about me. You thought I was some kind of naive malleable kid who could easily be influenced and brain washed, didn’t you? Hence, why you insists on lecturing me about how bad VN govt is, etc.*
> 
> I am a leftist socialist, an independent thinker. And no, I don’t think VN is a genuine socialist country and neither is the VCP a genuine communist party. I hate the pro-VCP apologists who gives nonsense argument just to defend the party. But let me tell you, I also hate as much the anti-VCP camp, especially the oversea ones like the Viet Tan, who talks as much nonsense as the pro-VCP apologists. Nonsense that they commonly say are things like , “the VCP is controlled by the CCP”, etc. Things that even western analysts will disagree with. Nonsense like that coming from nonsense group like Viet Tan does more harm than good. Real Viets who want to work for change can get associated with their nonsense and lose credential.
> 
> If you genuinely want Vietnam to progress, then by all means you have the right to criticize or discuss issues wrt VN. *But do it with proper data and intelligence*, don’t just scream out slogans like “*VN govt is destroying the country”, “VCP dont know how to rule” or outright lies like “VCP is controlled by CCP”*. I have previously opened many topics on issues related to VN, and even asked non-VNmese for comments and knowledge. I have learnt more from that than the slogans screamed out by VT and the likes.



Well, first of all, you have gone way too far on analyzing my comment regarding your first paragraph. I was wrong about you because you're defending AQ, who lacks the knowledge about Democracy, Social structure & orders and technology. This guy never live in a Democratic country and study in a Democratic country. I'm not asking who you shouldn't or should defend. I know that is your choice. I'm just more surprised that you are defending his wrong about Democracy and how little he understand technology and his government, VCP. I never said you are naive. You are putting words in my mouth. I've always known you to be careful with your wordings. Your command of the English language is better than most people on PDF. It means you have a lot of patient which I can respect that.

"hen by all means you have the right to criticize or discuss issues wrt VN. *But do it with proper data and intelligence*, don’t just scream out slogans like “*VN govt is destroying the country”, “VCP dont know how to rule” or outright lies like “VCP is controlled by CCP”"*

Carlosa has his reason to criticize just like you and me and AQ. My criticisms are mostly based on fact and data as you have mentioned above. Although, you and AQ don't acknowledge it. And that's fine with me. Of course, I want Vietnam to be a much better place, who doesn't? My opinion is still valid regarding how VCP is operating very ineffectively and inefficiently and you know it. I've done many organizational work and I understand how companies are run. Not all are effective and efficient. I pointed out to you the reasons for that inefficiency and ineffectiveness. *Not all datas are leaked into the public for someone like yourself to read.* The best data I got is my own experience. You can't compare me to some articles you read online. We are all human beings, and the more people you're exposed to, then the more you understand them. You should have ask me and those Vietnamese *why* we said those things to VCP. But again, I'm not VCP nor are those people who criticize the VCP. In the end, all we can do is voice it out. It is up to the VCP to make that happen.

Why didn't the VCP realize it sooner? because they didn't know that China would turn their backs on them. Which open up their eyes and mind to USA. They know they cannot depend on the Russian alone because the Russian are in their own best interest, not VIETNAM.

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## Carlosa

3Kingdoms said:


> My guess is a smart country would want technology so they engineer nuance to their particular region of operations. Besides Vietnam has the ultimate trump card China doesn't want ever happening, give Cam Ranh port to foreign power - maybe even a north port or THAAD! Vietnam doesn't want this but its a possibility nonetheless.
> "Annam borders on China; her security concerns us. China's protection of that country should have no difference from that of Chinese provinces." - Marquis Zeng Jize 1881
> 
> @Viet @Carlosa - this is wishful thinking here but with the Spartly Island of Vietnam how I wish they would turn those islands into a tourist destination. Firstly we get international funding for the project (I know this is hard sell), international funding means any attack on those islands will automatically attack the nation of funds 'Hedging'. Also warfare is not just about bombs and bullets, this modern warfare involves information and public opinions, hence an enemy would dare not attack a place of international tourism (they could intimidate though). And who wouldn't want to holiday in the beautiful spartly islands where one can chillax while neighboring islands perform military drills.
> Check out these floating island we could link small island to island creating a chain. Because of tourist maybe we could secure region of fishing EEZ? Hire foreign as well as local coast guard as 'Hedging'.
> Floating & maneuverable



You only need to think about all the noise that Russia is doing because of the AEGIS Ashore bases in Rumania and Poland as well as all the noise from China and Russia about the THAADS in South Korea.
Just imagines American intelligence outposts in the chinese vietnamese border. That's a nightmare scenario for China. 

If China pushes too far, there will be a reaction and it will not be in China's interest to do that.

There is already some low level tourism activities in the Spratlys. Vietnam will have to do things in steps; the islands are very small, land reclamation first, then can see what can realistically be done and don't forget that it takes quite a bit of money to develop tourist facilities like that. The reclamation already takes quite a bit of money already.

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## Carlosa

vtnsx said:


> Well, first of all, you have gone way too far on analyzing my comment regarding your first paragraph. I was wrong about you because you're defending AQ, who lacks the knowledge about Democracy, Social structure & orders and technology. This guy never live in a Democratic country and study in a Democratic country. I'm not asking who you shouldn't or should defend. I know that is your choice. I'm just more surprised that you are defending his wrong about Democracy and how little he understand technology and his government, VCP. I never said you are naive. You are putting words in my mouth. I've always known you to be careful with your wordings. Your command of the English language is better than most people on PDF. It means you have a lot of patient which I can respect that.
> 
> "hen by all means you have the right to criticize or discuss issues wrt VN. *But do it with proper data and intelligence*, don’t just scream out slogans like “*VN govt is destroying the country”, “VCP dont know how to rule” or outright lies like “VCP is controlled by CCP”"*
> 
> Carlosa has his reason to criticize just like you and me and AQ. My criticisms are mostly based on fact and data as you have mentioned above. Although, you and AQ don't acknowledge it. And that's fine with me. Of course, I want Vietnam to be a much better place, who doesn't? My opinion is still valid regarding how VCP is operating very ineffectively and inefficiently and you know it. I've done many organizational work and I understand how companies are run. Not all are effective and efficient. I pointed out to you the reasons for that inefficiency and ineffectiveness. *Not all datas are leaked into the public for someone like yourself to read.* The best data I got is my own experience. You can't compare me to some articles you read online. We are all human beings, and the more people you're exposed to, then the more you understand them. You should have ask me and those Vietnamese *why* we said those things to VCP. But again, I'm not VCP nor are those people who criticize the VCP. In the end, all we can do is voice it out. It is up to the VCP to make that happen.
> 
> Why didn't the VCP realize it sooner? because they didn't know that China would turn their backs on them. Which open up their eyes and mind to USA. They know they cannot depend on the Russian alone because the Russian are in their own best interest, not VIETNAM.



He is usually careful with words and has a good analytical mind, but he is starting to lose his edge recently. His emotions get in the way of his mind.

I have political positions about Vietnam and others, but I don't get involved in Vietnamese politics because of some very practical reasons that I recently mentioned, but I do talk about corruption, that issue does boil my blood and as I said the other day, corruption is widely talked about in Vietnam by the press, the people and the government so nobody here has a right to try to curtail the issue. Nobody can give gag orders in PDF. The ones that try to close the discussion and prefer to ignore the issue are acting out of false pride and false nationalism. Self criticism is supposed to be a virtue..........

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> @3Kingdoms
> 
> we have a big island in the South China Sea. and not many people know about it. we can upgrade the infrastructure, making it to a naval base, to a military stronghold: Côn Đảo. Basing S-400 long range radar and air defence missiles there. the distance between the island and the spratlys is about 550 km. currently a hidden hotspot for holidaymakers. the islands have everything needed for people to live.
> 
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> when a russian media reports a potential sale of 4 divisions of S-400 airdefence system to Vietnam, then the thing gets a serious touch. the russians know how to make weapons. Let bring S-400 to Côn Đảo island.
> 
> http://rbth.com/news/2016/07/12/vietnam-eyes-s-400-triumf-system_610777



Also Phú Quý Island, 120 km from Pan Thiet.

Con Dao and Phú Quý Islands definitely are strategic locations and if nothing else, they are good locations for radars (Phú Quý already have one, I imagine Con Dao also) to provide some early detection of chinese aircraft / missiles, etc.

Con Dao has a port and air strip. Maybe they need to get expanded for more military use.

Some pictures of Phú Quý Island:

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## Aqsuperman

Meh i wrote a giant piece of reply and no one going to keep wrestle with me about how "baseless" and "limited" i am anymore ? Such a shame right ? 

Anywhere here is an old article about North Korea anti - ship missile which strikingly similar to Kh-35 which currently in use which Vietnam and some countries. I believe that VN still hold a relation that more than pure words with NK although NK is way reliance on our Northern neighbor. Still, if the theory in the article about Vietnam is correct, what kind of technoly did we receive back from NK ? 

http://www.koreandefense.com/the-north-korean-kh-35-a-closer-look/

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## Viet

3Kingdoms said:


> My guess is a smart country would want technology so they engineer nuance to their particular region of operations. Besides Vietnam has the ultimate trump card China doesn't want ever happening, give Cam Ranh port to foreign power - maybe even a north port or THAAD! Vietnam doesn't want this but its a possibility nonetheless.
> "Annam borders on China; her security concerns us. China's protection of that country should have no difference from that of Chinese provinces." - Marquis Zeng Jize 1881
> 
> @Viet @Carlosa - this is wishful thinking here but with the Spartly Island of Vietnam how I wish they would turn those islands into a tourist destination. Firstly we get international funding for the project (I know this is hard sell), international funding means any attack on those islands will automatically attack the nation of funds 'Hedging'. Also warfare is not just about bombs and bullets, this modern warfare involves information and public opinions, hence an enemy would dare not attack a place of international tourism (they could intimidate though). And who wouldn't want to holiday in the beautiful spartly islands where one can chillax while neighboring islands perform military drills.
> Check out these floating island we could link small island to island creating a chain. Because of tourist maybe we could secure region of fishing EEZ? Hire foreign as well as local coast guard as 'Hedging'.
> Floating & maneuverable


haaaa looks great futuristic, surely a would-be nice holiday hotspot. hope the government realizes the strategic importance of remote islands and developes them. our country is very small in the middle, not having a strategic depth as it should be like other countries with big land mass. money, technology is the way to go. and most importantly, people in the authority that realize what needs to be done.

also, a strategic island: Cồn Cỏ before the coast in central Vietnam
















































apparently, besides the chinese, there are more people that can build light-houses.

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## vtnsx

*Thai navy open fire on Việt Nam’s fishing boats, injuring two*


Read more at http://vietnamnews.vn/politics-laws...g-boats-injuring-two.html#zzB2oJfmu9Yb54B6.99

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> @Carlosa
> @3Kingdoms
> 
> we have a big island in the South China Sea. and not many people know about it. we can upgrade the infrastructure, making it to a naval base, to a military stronghold: Côn Đảo. Basing S-400 long range radar and air defence missiles there. the distance between the island and the spratlys is about 550 km. currently a hidden hotspot for holidaymakers. the islands have everything needed for people to live.
> 
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> when a russian media reports a potential sale of 4 divisions of S-400 airdefence system to Vietnam, then the thing gets a serious touch. the russians know how to make weapons. Let bring S-400 to Côn Đảo island.
> 
> http://rbth.com/news/2016/07/12/vietnam-eyes-s-400-triumf-system_610777



More pictures of Con Dao island:

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## vtnsx

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/sc...etnam-strengthen-outer-space-cooperation.html

*Russia, Vietnam strengthen outer space cooperation*






Under the MoU, the two sides will work together in prioritised areas of mutual interest, including earth and outer space exploration, satellite positioning and satellite launch services, and research on physics-astronomy and other planets.

In order to implement joint national-level projects, Roscosmos and VAST will set up a joint group on outer space cooperation.

In 2014, Russia’s State Duma approved an agreement on cooperation in the exploration and use of outer space for peaceful purposes between Russia and Vietnam.

The document defined necessary principles and conditions to develop bilateral cooperation in outer space exploration.

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## Tanker88

Vietnam is getting S-400!

*Vietnam eyes S-400 air defense system*
*
by Echelon-Defense

After China, Vietnam might become the second country to acquire the state-of-art Russian S-400 air defense system.

According to Asian sources, Vietnam is interested in purchasing at least four divisions before year end.

It is worth mentioning that India is also in negotiations to buy the system.
*

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> More pictures of Con Dao island:


this particular picture of the island looks promising: large land reclamation connecting two parts of the island, with artificial lakes, a sea port and a beautiful runway. my dream may come true with Su-30 bombers

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## vtnsx

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/sc...m-to-launch-another-satellite-into-orbit.html

*Vietnam to launch another satellite into orbit*






Through the program supporting the development of Earth observation satellites for training purposes in the developing countries of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA), it is scheduled that in 2018, the Epsilon rocket (Japan) manufactured by IHI Aerospace will carry Vietnam’s MicroDragon satellite to orbit.

Dr. Pham Anh Tuan, Director of the Vietnam Space Center (VNSC), said the satellite MicroDragon with the size of 50 x 50 x 50 cm and a weight of 50 kg is being developed by the young experts of VNSC with the assistance of Japanese professors Japan, using the funds of VNSC.

The MicroDragon satellite is designed and launched to orbit with missions of observing the coastal waters to assess water quality, locate aquatic resources, track the change of phenomena occurring in the coastal waters to serve the aquaculture industry of Vietnam.

This satellite will also detect the coverage of clouds, the nature of aerosols to serve the atmospheric correction, receive sensor signals on the ground and then quickly transfer the data to the places that are very far from each other on earth. At the same time, MicroDragon will also test new materials (Atomic Oxygen, Antimony Tin Oxide Coating Solar Cell).

Tuan said, following the success of the satellite PicoDragon, VNSC sent 36 engineers to five leading Japanese universities to participate in the training course on satellite technology, and to directly design, manufacture and test the MicroDragon satellite under the guidance of Japanese professors.

With this project breakthrough, Vietnamese engineers not only have the opportunity to acquire basic knowledge about satellite technology but also to directly be involved in manufacturing the MicroDragon satellite.

Along with the help of JAXA, once the MicroDragon satellite is put into operation as expected, it will realize Vietnam’s process to master satellite technology, Tuan said.

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## Aqsuperman

Well i guess in the end, coward will always be coward. Very loud mound but cant get a tiny piece of reality. Dont even have the gut to argue about the reality with many striking examples but no, he still think he got "fact and data" :v. I probably need to go reside in United States in order to get a new "insight" on what type "democracy wet dream theory" he is having.

Pass out on that. Here is C2A Greyhound that is currently in Da Nang for the US ambassador Ted visiting the carrier fleet . Specialized 2 engine cargo plane for carrier operation. Work out great on short runway.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Well i guess in the end, coward will always be coward. Very loud mound but cant get a tiny piece of reality. Dont even have the gut to argue about the reality with many striking examples but no, he still think he got "fact and data" :v. I probably need to go reside in United States in order to get a new "insight" on what type "democracy wet dream theory" he is having.
> 
> Pass out on that. Here is C2A Greyhound that is currently in Da Nang for the US ambassador Ted visiting the carrier fleet . Specialized 2 engine cargo plane for carrier operation. Work out great on short runway.


come on let us continue on topic...

nice picture of the airplanes. but I wonder about the tail: is it a rising sun?

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## Viet

*Replenishment Vessel
*
a new oil tanker with capacity of 2,000 m3 fuel for the Navy operating at sea

the first ever domestically built replenishment oiler. designed and manufactured by Hồng Hà Shipyard, total displacement 4,300 tons, length 90m, wide 14m, top speed 13.5 knots, capable of operating at sea non-stop for 45 days, max range 6,000 miles. Besides fuel, it offers 500m3 fresh water, 300 tons food, 30 tons frozen food, 80 tons vegetables.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> this particular picture of the island looks promising: large land reclamation connecting two parts of the island, with artificial lakes, a sea port and a beautiful runway. my dream may come true with Su-30 bombers



At least those islands are big enough for an air base, there are mountains that protect many areas from storms, etc. At 185 km from the coast, it might make sense to have a base there, its about 40% of the distance to the Spratlys.

Some more info about Con Dao Island:

Côn Đảo

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Côn Đảo Islands are an archipelago of Bà Rịa–Vũng Tàu Province, in the Southeast region of Vietnam, and a district of this province.

*Description *

Situated about 185 km (115 mi) from Vũng Tàu and 230 km (143 mi) from Ho Chi Minh City, the group includes 16 mountainous islands and islets. The total land area reaches 75.15 km2 and the local population is about 5,000.

The islands are composed of magmatic rocks of different ages. Hon Bay Canh, Hon Cau, Hon Bong Lang
composed of Cretaceous microgranit rocks. The Northern part of Con Dao Island composed of quartz diorite and granite - granodiorit of late Mesozoic- early Cenozoic age, and is partially covered by Quaternary marine sediments. The Southern part of this island and Hon Ba island are composed of the riolit and intrusive formations of unknown age. In the western slop of Con Dao Island, there exists of outcrops of diorite and microgranit penetrated by big quartz bands.

The island group is served by *Côn Đảo Airport* situated on the largest island in the Archipelago: Côn Sơn Island.

Coordinates: 8°41!35"N 106°36!34"E

*History *

Formally a Khmer Empire territory known as Koh Tralach islands were settled by the Vietnamese by the 17th century.

On June 16, 1702, the English East India Company founded a settlement on Pulo Condore as an entrepôt for

ships plying between India and China.[1] Three years later on March 2, 1705, the English agents were murdered, the factory destroyed, and the remaining settlers were expelled by the Vietnamese.

During the internecine wars for the Court of Hue, the Nguyen Prince Nguyễn Phúc Ánh ceded the islands to France in the Treaty of Versailles (1787) in return for military assistance. The treaty however was abrogated as France failed to provide the aid.

It was only under conquest that the islands came under French control in 1861. During the French colonial era, the island was made infamous for its penal facilities and the notorious "tiger cages".
Vietnamese nationalists were sent here to serve their sentence for anti-French activities. Many Vietnamese Communist leaders were "schooled" on Côn Đảo Island as well.

The French Indochinese government named the group of islands Poulo-Condore Islands, a name that derives from the islands' Malay name Pulo Condore (pulo as a corruption of pulau, meaning "island").

*Côn Đảo National Park *

Many of the islands were given protected status in 1984 as part of Côn Đảo National Park. This natural preserve was subsequently enlarged in 1998. Endangered species protected within the park include the hawksbill turtle, the green turtle and the dugong. Ecosystems represented in the park include seagrass meadow, mangrove and coral reefs.

Côn Đảo National Park is working with the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) Vietnam to further protection in the marine areas, with programs to establish a Marine Protected Area that protects coral reefs, seagrass beds and species, while also developing sustainable nature-based ecotourism. The island's management is strongly geared towards sustainable use, hoping to learn from previous experiences in Vietnam and the region to balance development with conservation.

*List of islands *

Côn Sơn Islands include 16 islands, with a total area of 76 km2.
Côn Lôn Island or Côn Sơn (Grande-Condore), Phú Hải, 51.52 km2

Little Côn Lôn Island (Petite-Condore), or Hòn Bà, Phú Sơn, 5.45 km2 Bảy Cạnh Island, or Bãi Cạnh Island, Phú Hòa, 5.5 km2
Cau Island, or Phú Lệ 1.8 km2
Bông Lan Island, or Bông Lang, Bông Lau, Phú Phong, 0.2 km2
Vung Island, or Phú Vinh 0.15 km2
Ngọc Island, or Trọc Island, hòn Trai, Phú Nghĩa, 0.4 km2
Trứng Island, or Đá Bạc Island, Đá Trắng Island, Phú Thọ, 0.1 km2 Tài Lớn Island, or Phú Bình 0.38 km2
Tài Nhỏ Island, or Thỏ Island, Phú An, 0.1 km2
Trác Lớn Island, or Phú Hưng 0.25 km2
Trác Nhỏ Island, or Phú Thịnh 0.1 km2
Tre Lớn Island, or Phú Hòa 0.75 km2
Tre Nhỏ Island, or Phú Hội, 0.25 km2
Anh Island, or Trứng Lớn Island
Em Island, or Trứng Nhỏ Island

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> come on let us continue on topic...
> 
> nice picture of the airplanes. but I wonder about the tail: is it a rising sun?



Indeed  As you can see, the plane belong to the VRC - 30 aka Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 30. Whenever the carrier fleet is, several of these guys will be around. In this case, VRC - 30 is station in Atsugi Naval Air Facility, Japan which support CVN Ronald Reagan and the fleet. Ambassador Ted Osius Just have a visit to that carrier hence the appearance of this aircraft

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> since when is Russia your ally?
> 
> can you show me the China-Russia treaty?


1. China and Russia they r founders of SCO.
2. Almost each year both hold joint military drills, both Army & Navy together in both lands and sea.
3. Both hold joint anti-terrorist drills in the Central Asia.
4. Both share weapon develop techs.
5. China is Russian 1st biggest oil buyer, and 1st biggest trader partner for Russia.
6. Both have the same interest in many international and U.N affairs.
7. Both face the same threat from the other side of the earth.
8. Russia government support China claims in SCS dispute, not with Vietnam.




Viet said:


> True, we tend to copy goodies of China. Our next acquisition would be aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles.


Sounds nice ... pls don't copy China, first try copying Su-30mk2 u need that for u lost.




Viet said:


> by the way, I hope you have enough minesweepers in service, once we begin to lay out mines, protecting our islands, potentially bringing the entire commercial shipping in the SC sea to a standstill. As the biggest trader, you certainly know what that means for you.
> 
> we have 8 minesweepers in service. Old but still ok.


Again, SEA MINES defeat China and PLAN ... China as Vietnam's neighbor, the biggest trader in the world also world n.o2 military expenditure country, China had 2nd achievement.


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Well i LOVE when a military thread turn political by people who dont have remotely enough information about what is going on around the world or the history of a country yet boldly made many conclusions. Since certain people cant read and probably having a hard time on Google, i will give you some interesting information:
> 
> 1/ "Baseless", "limited" ? Well the guy said that surely dont know anything about "Democracy" in the world except on books and pure theory. Let me list a few notable examples about what happen to "democracy" in the past. Do remember that i dont claim all democracy will be like this:
> 
> _ South Vietnam: A "certified" democracy by US standards. Now let google Ngo Dinh Diem assassination or coup and election frauds in South Vietnam. Feel free to read English sources and see what happen to that "democracy". Democracy like communism in a sense that if people act precisely and exactly like what on the theory, things will surely better, they both have a tight procedure and structure to follow. But as the VN old slogan :'Làm theo năng lực, hưởng theo nhu cầu" or "Do what you can, earn what you want" that fail miserably, democracy in Vietnam was and will face the same destruction. People care little about the country benefit, only about themselves. In just 5 years from 1960 to 1965 there are numerous coup attempts and assassination. The election frauds and corruptions are rampaging. Are there anyone got punished by the constitution? A few............if you lose that is. Guess the people at this time will do MUCH better eh ?
> 
> _South Korea: Another "certified" democracy by US standards. Nowadays the country is fine and prosperous because the people see the COUNTRY benefits first. Before that, things were much more difficult. I guess we all know the name of Park Chung Hee and Chun Doo hwan. These are generals that utilize the political instability to become president. While i do see many advantage they bring to the country, they are famous for many thing else. And for people that thought constitution will always fair and square, Yushin constitution will be a damn nice example. And what happen to them ? Chun Doo Hwan nearly kill a future SK president, embezzle state fund and what ? "A president pardon" and he got out easily.
> 
> _United States: Here we are, the biggest democracy in the world. I dont see any TRANSPARENCY anywhere. 2003 Iraq invasion, where is the god damn WMD ? The newspaper that cover the war sunk the issue down like nothing. 2011 Libya bombing, i mean for what ? "Free the people and bring them happiness" ? Now surely Libyan is in a state of "extreme happiness". And of course let talk about Richard Nixon with the famous Watergate scandal, what happen to him ? Jail time ? nope. "A president pardon" and there he goes out happy and fine. Well i guess being a president do help you a lot. Immunity were given out like fall leaves. Other people involved in such a massive scandal and surely unconstitutional event under orders by an active President never spend more than 3 years in jail............Well the biggest Democracy in the work "work out" very good eh ? Such "good and precise" punishment for Richard Nixon and his cliche, right ? "Challenge it and you will be punished" my butt. And you talk about the Second Amendments, you call its a tool for people to keep the government in check, i call it a cause for uncontrollable mass shootings and murders. Pick the one you like
> 
> 2/ For the person that are NOT from Vietnam, here are also good stuff for you:
> 
> _ Dis i say we achieve stability right after 1975 ? i only say we have it NOW after LONG time. Dont put your "assumed" words into my mouth. And about the naming of the city. Ho Chi Minh is our leader in our war of revolution since the France time. People that serve the France and then the American against him were TRAITORS. You dont colonize a country, cut it in half and when someone achieved victory, re - unite the country and made changes, you claim that is wrong ? A location name can easily change a dozen times, why do we have to play by someone else preference ? I guess Washington D.C that is named after George Washington better change back to something like "State of Potomac" ? HISTORICALLY correct right ?
> 
> If this too hard to stomach for you, check this: Mount Rushmore. This is the place taken by American after the American - Indian war. Now in the 1927 after all the Indian got throw into the conservation, the first four presidents of the United States faces are carved into the mountain. Sound fair to the Indian ? Oh lets use your own word instead : "A political gestures to show that the Indian has lost their land, we own you now and here we will carve our founding presidents into the mountain to mark the occasion".
> 
> Purge and concentration camps. Well after the American Revolution and then the Civil war, things have to done about the American Royalist and the South States. Much have nothing against the new regime but there are people seeking the old ways. That when stuff go bad. In Vietnam, its the same. Printing counterfeit, mounting arms resistance, sabotaging key facilities, etc. What is your suggestion to stop it ? Sit by and wait till it happen more and more on a wider scale ? We did what it take, there are controversial mistakes and grave errors were makes but we try our best to made up for those people.
> 
> Foe conclusion, i did see many good qualities of democracy. but i also know that its can only be exploited by people with high cultural standards. If people only care about their own benefits, democracy will bring nothing but extra problems. Greek government now struggle to survive due to many presidents post - retirements care programs that strain the nation budgets. And that is only if we dont kill ourselves first and do China a big favor. Have fun hoping that our people can refine the thing instead of smashing it down and turn the country into a mass exodus that is happen on plenty of countries now.



II just want to make a simple observation.

Democracy as a representative form of government, gets applied in different ways in different countries. In some countries is relatively well done and it fulfills its purpose and mission as a way to represent the people. Some countries have the right type of culture for democracy, some don't.

In ancient Greece democracy was truly representative; in modern times it varies a lot.

In USA democracy has been totally taken over and corrupted by money. Yes, people elect their leaders in a democratic way and can also expel them in the same way, but those elected, for the most part, serve the interests of big business, not the interest of the people. Even money contributions to Senators, congressmen, candidates, etc has been legally considered as "a form of free speech" in USA, thats nothing less than legalized corruption.

In ancient Greece practicing democracy was very straight forward, people went to the Agora (the central marketplace) and took care of business, yes to this, no to that, simple and functional. Modern life its a bit more complicated, can't do things so directly, there are many mechanisms in the middle of the process. The media for example, but who controls the media? Many people form their opinions from the media and in most of the western world the media is controlled by powerful business interests that have a political leaning.

As an example, western media demonizes Russia and Putin, they are selective as what to publish, they distort the information and they follow the political narrative of the US government. The CIA has a very active program of control of the media, they give money to publication editors in order to control the narrative. Controlling the narrative is one of the many elements in the making of color revolutions, something that the US is very good at doing. All of this is just another form of corruption.

Marx, Lenin and Trotsky had many good ideas for the most part, but they failed in implementation and all those countries that became communist or socialist, with no exception ended up having institutionalized corruption. That's how it is when one side has full power and no accountability, such is the human condition.

And to those that say that Vietnam is a socialist country, yeah, sure. In Danang, where I live, all the people that were living in the beach or near the beach were relocated getting paid less than market value for their properties (in one case, one of those relocated people went to the city people's government and put himself on fire in front of the building as a protest for his relocation since he was not given enough money to buy a new place). Most of the beach areas were given to resorts and golf courses and to add insult to injury, those people that were relocated, got cut off from the beach and have to travel a few km to get to the beach because those beach areas given to the resorts are kilometers long and continuos. They didn't even bother to leave some areas for the people here and there. The public part of the beach is crowded during summer. Danang has 1 million people now, but plans to increase to 3 million. Where is the public beach going to be for 3 million people? In capitalist western Europe you can't build within 100 meters of the beach in order to preserve the beach *for the public*.

In Vietnam, money talks.

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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Well i guess in the end, coward will always be coward. Very loud mound but cant get a tiny piece of reality. Dont even have the gut to argue about the reality with many striking examples but no, he still think he got "fact and data" :v. I probably need to go reside in United States in order to get a new "insight" on what type "democracy wet dream theory" he is having.
> 
> Pass out on that. Here is C2A Greyhound that is currently in Da Nang for the US ambassador Ted visiting the carrier fleet . Specialized 2 engine cargo plane for carrier operation. Work out great on short runway.



AQ, your English and reading comprehension is at a level of a child. I don't need to continue to argue with you. You will never get it. You don't even know the difference between reality and theory. You are an emotional child and whine more than a baby. Anyways, if you have a problem with me then reply to my comment directly. In fact, I don't need to continue this conversation with you because you have a difficult time comprehending and writting English. Because of that, you will never get it. Get back to me again when you can. Otherwise, don't waste my time.


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## Aqsuperman

vtnsx said:


> AQ, your English and reading comprehension is at a level of a child. I don't need to continue to argue with you. You will never get it. You don't even know the difference between reality and theory. You are an emotional child and whine more than a baby. Anyways, if you have a problem with me then reply to my comment directly. In fact, I don't need to continue this conversation with you because you have a difficult time comprehending and writting English. Because of that, you will never get it. Get back to me again when you can. Otherwise, don't waste my time.



Oh thank god that im on break days now. Nice to see you still have some rotten gut in there.But if you that brave, why not quote my previous examples post ? Dare to put out a few words to comment about what i said in that post ? 

I think you are just a PATHETIC excuse of a human being that turn to personal insults and diverting the subject to my "English Comprehension" as soon as things turn against you. Typical forum coward and jerk when someone is actually more informed in the world affairs than his "papers and theory" wet dream.

"Reality and Theory ?" Have you even read my previous post with all the examples about South Vietnam, South Korea and even United States with all those "Democracy" ? You are having a hard time reading them ? You dont see enough "reality" in it ? Or maybe you dont know crap about them. You dont even know who the hell are Chun Doo Hwan and Richard Nixon or what is Yushin Constitution. Oh way maybe its because my "English Comprehension" right ? Quite sure Carlosa get what i mean though. We are having a Grammar Checking contest here or a thread ? Or maybe someone is stuck in a "democracy wet dream theory" then fail to get out and SEE the PAST or even right NOW. 

"Fact and data" ? "Baseless and Limited" ? THOSE WORDS ARE FOR YOU, TROLL. Dont know something then google it. Taste some REAL Democracy in your mouth first instead of that useless "Constitution and Transparency" before trying to "wipe out" this government because your level of knowledge about the REAL outside world is like a zoo - bred animals : Clueless and Crappy.



Carlosa said:


> II just want to make a simple observation.
> 
> Democracy as a representative form of government, gets applied in different ways in different countries. In some countries is relatively well done and it fulfills its purpose and mission as a way to represent the people. Some countries have the right type of culture for democracy, some don't.
> 
> In ancient Greece democracy was truly representative; in modern times it varies a lot.
> 
> In USA democracy has been totally taken over and corrupted by money. Yes, people elect their leaders in a democratic way and can also expel them in the same way, but those elected, for the most part, serve the interests of big business, not the interest of the people. Even money contributions to Senators, congressmen, candidates, etc has been legally considered as "a form of free speech" in USA, thats nothing less than legalized corruption.
> 
> In ancient Greece practicing democracy was very straight forward, people went to the Agora (the central marketplace) and took care of business, yes to this, no to that, simple and functional. Modern life its a bit more complicated, can't do things so directly, there are many mechanisms in the middle of the process. The media for example, but who controls the media? Many people form their opinions from the media and in most of the western world the media is controlled by powerful business interests that have a political leaning.
> 
> As an example, western media demonizes Russia and Putin, they are selective as what to publish, they distort the information and they follow the political narrative of the US government. The CIA has a very active program of control of the media, they give money to publication editors in order to control the narrative. Controlling the narrative is one of the many elements in the making of color revolutions, something that the US is very good at doing. All of this is just another form of corruption.
> 
> Marx, Lenin and Trotsky had many good ideas for the most part, but they failed in implementation and all those countries that became communist or socialist, with no exception ended up having institutionalized corruption. That's how it is when one side has full power and no accountability, such is the human condition.
> 
> And to those that say that Vietnam is a socialist country, yeah, sure. In Danang, where I live, all the people that were living in the beach or near the beach were relocated getting paid less than market value for their properties (in one case, one of those relocated people went to the city people's government and put himself on fire in front of the building as a protest for his relocation since he was not given enough money to buy a new place). Most of the beach areas were given to resorts and golf courses and to add insult to injury, those people that were relocated, got cut off from the beach and have to travel a few km to get to the beach because those beach areas given to the resorts are kilometers long and continuos. They didn't even bother to leave some areas for the people here and there. The public part of the beach is crowded during summer. Danang has 1 million people now, but plans to increase to 3 million. Where is the public beach going to be for 3 million people? In capitalist western Europe you can't build within 100 meters of the beach in order to preserve the beach *for the public*.
> 
> In Vietnam, money talks.



As in anywhere money and power are everything. Our government is far from perfect, full of flaws and lack efficiency. But i always like the idea to fix them from the inside instead of adventuring to the unknowns. In the last 20 years, we have never experience terrorist incidents, coups, wars, etc. Though we do have some considerable unrest sometime but if that is not achievement, what is ? Economic is slowly advance. Corruption and abuse of power are also a major headache nowadays.

But everything go hand in hand. Although a imperfect place, stability is what we have now. Wipe out a government in hope that the new regime will be better with the people current cultural standards is the idea of a moron. When the standards go up, sure lets find a way to change but right now ? Like hell as its going to work with many failed examples around .


Paratrooper training


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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Oh thank god that im on break days now. Nice to see you still have some rotten gut in there.But if you that brave, why not quote my previous examples post ? Dare to put out a few words to comment about what i said in that post ?
> 
> I think you are just a PATHETIC excuse of a human being that turn to personal insults and diverting the subject to my "English Comprehension" as soon as things turn against you. Typical forum coward and jerk when someone is actually more informed in the world affairs than his "papers and theory" wet dream.
> 
> "Reality and Theory ?" Have you even read my previous post with all the examples about South Vietnam, South Korea and even United States with all those "Democracy" ? You are having a hard time reading them ? You dont see enough "reality" in it ? Or maybe you dont know crap about them. You dont even know who the hell are Chun Doo Hwan and Richard Nixon or what is Yushin Constitution. Oh way maybe its because my "English Comprehension" right ? Quite sure Carlosa get what i mean though. We are having a Grammar Checking contest here or a thread ? Or maybe someone is stuck in a "democracy wet dream theory" then fail to get out and SEE the PAST or even right NOW.
> 
> "Fact and data" ? "Baseless and Limited" ? THOSE WORDS ARE FOR YOU, TROLL. Dont know something then google it. Taste some REAL Democracy in your mouth first instead of that useless "Constitution and Transparency" before trying to "wipe out" this government because your level of knowledge about the REAL outside world is like a zoo - bred animals : Clueless and Crappy.
> 
> 
> 
> As in anywhere money and power are everything. Our government is far from perfect, full of flaws and lack efficiency. But i always like the idea to fix them from the inside instead of adventuring to the unknowns. In the last 20 years, we have never experience terrorist incidents, coups, wars, etc. Though we do have some considerable unrest sometime but if that is not achievement, what is ? Economic is slowly advance. Corruption and abuse of power are also a major headache nowadays.
> 
> But everything go hand in hand. Although a imperfect place, stability is what we have now. Wipe out a government in hope that the new regime will be better with the people current cultural standards is the idea of a moron. When the standards go up, sure lets find a way to change but right now ? Like hell as its going to work with many failed examples around .
> 
> 
> Paratrooper training



"I think you are just a PATHETIC excuse of a human being that turn to personal insults and diverting the subject to my "English Comprehension" as soon as things turn against you. Typical forum coward and jerk when someone is actually more informed in the world affairs* than his "papers and theory" wet dream.*"

How is it an insult when it is a fact that you know nothing about Democracy? You read everything online and in the books about Democracy. What exactly do you even know about it? Lol, you're telling me that I know nothing when I live in a Democratic country for more than two decades. This is why I don't need to listen to your rant/garbage. All it is are garbage from your emotional childish logic mind. Yes, your English reading comprehension limits your understanding of what I was trying to tell you about VCP. Add to your problem is your emotional childish logic. You're bashing at me and Carlosa for standing up to CRITICISM.

You're really confused, AQ. What do you really know about what is going on within the US, Canada, South Korea, Japan, UK, etc? Didn't I just told you that every Democratic countries operate differently? I guess you didn't read my comments above. Anyways, I didn't bother to read your rant because you really don't know much about Democracy. So by reading your comment is just a waste of my time. Just shut up and post something useful in this forum. Thank you.


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## Aqsuperman

vtnsx said:


> "I think you are just a PATHETIC excuse of a human being that turn to personal insults and diverting the subject to my "English Comprehension" as soon as things turn against you. Typical forum coward and jerk when someone is actually more informed in the world affairs* than his "papers and theory" wet dream.*"
> 
> How is it an insult when it is a fact that you know nothing about Democracy? You read everything online and in the books about Democracy. What exactly do you even know about it? Lol, you're telling me that I know nothing when I live in a Democratic country for more than two decades. This is why I don't need to listen to your rant/garbage. All it is are garbage from your emotional childish logic mind. Yes, your English reading comprehension limits your understanding of what I was trying to tell you about VCP. Add to your problem is your emotional childish logic. You're bashing at me and Carlosa for standing up to CRITICISM.
> 
> You're really confused, AQ. What do you really know about what is going on within the US, Canada, South Korea, Japan, UK, etc? Didn't I just told you that every Democratic countries operate differently? I guess you didn't read my comments above. Anyways, I didn't bother to read your rant because you really don't know much about Democracy. So by reading your comment is just a waste of my time. Just shut up and post something useful in this forum. Thank you.



LOL i never bash at Carlosa. You are trying hard to get him over your side, eh? He has a point and put a good use of his input into the thread. You ? You babbling several posts about "wiping the government", how democracy work and that democracy theory are applied CORRECTLY everywhere and that will do good to Vietnam too. But when i point out many examples prove otherwise in many countries democracy which is not just simply different types of operating but its completely go against the very idea that you are babbling about democracy. Therefore the people cultural standard is the deciding factor. But then you insult me and call me ranting, a troll and emotional child ? Those are proven case and have plenty of English sources around, if those are not real then what can be real ? Dont give respect and like hell you are going to receive one. 

And aren't you a adorable coward that loves to insults other then pick an easy, gutless and womanly way to get out of an argument ? You talk something then people argue about it, you say "Hey that is a child knowledge, i have more democracy experiences than you so i dont have to read anything, end of the discussion". Yeah that kind of reaction is totally a good example of 20 years of democracy experiences right ? just tell people that his logic and examples are invalid to my GREAT democracy wet dream theory. Two decades and that is the best reply you can come up with ? 


In essence let put it like this , maybe if you keep the pipe hole which you called a mouth firmly SHUT and make sure all the trashy democracy wet dream theory plus your retarded idea about wiping the government are only for yourself then i will continue with the usual. You think that you can post everything you want and then when people talk back, you just tell the guy to shut up and "post something useful" ? In Vietnamese we have a nice sentence for this situation: "Chú nghĩ chú là cái thá gì ?" or "Who the hell do you think are ?" If i post something offensive to the thread then the mod can ban me. Other than that, you can do crap about HOW i act. 

Testing Galil rifle


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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> LOL i never bash at Carlosa. You are trying hard to get him over your side, eh? He has a point and put a good use of his input into the thread. You ? You babbling several posts about "wiping the government", how democracy work and that democracy theory are applied CORRECTLY everywhere and that will do good to Vietnam too. But when i point out many examples prove otherwise in many countries democracy which is not just simply different types of operating but its completely go against the very idea that you are babbling about democracy. Therefore the people cultural standard is the deciding factor. But then you insult me and call me ranting, a troll and emotional child ? Those are proven case and have plenty of English sources around, if those are not real then what can be real ? Dont give respect and like hell you are going to receive one.
> 
> And aren't you a adorable coward that loves to insults other then pick an easy, gutless and womanly way to get out of an argument ? You talk something then people argue about it, you say "Hey that is a child knowledge, i have more democracy experiences than you so i dont have to read anything, end of the discussion". Yeah that kind of reaction is totally a good example of 20 years of democracy experiences right ? just tell people that his logic and examples are invalid to my GREAT democracy wet dream theory. Two decades and that is the best reply you can come up with ?
> 
> 
> In essence let put it like this , maybe if you keep the pipe hole which you called a mouth firmly SHUT and make sure all the trashy democracy wet dream theory plus your retarded idea about wiping the government are only for yourself then i will continue with the usual. You think that you can post everything you want and then when people talk back, you just tell the guy to shut up and "post something useful" ? In Vietnamese we have a nice sentence for this situation: "Chú nghĩ chú là cái thá gì ?" or "Who the hell do you think are ?" If i post something offensive to the thread then the mod can ban me. Other than that, you can do crap about HOW i act.
> 
> Testing Galil rifle



Lol, can you write me an essay? 
Take it easy, AQ. You are in a tandrum. 

I'm not even trying. I think you are. Anyways, as I mentioned before. I don't want to read your emotional childish rant. You can keep writing to me. But as I said before, you are just wasting your time and my time. Now, just shut up and move on, please. Why is it so hard for you to understand?


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## Viet

cnleio said:


> 1. China and Russia they r founders of SCO.
> 2. Almost each year both hold joint military drills, both Army & Navy together in both lands and sea.
> 3. Both hold joint anti-terrorist drills in the Central Asia.
> 4. Both share weapon develop techs.
> 5. China is Russian 1st biggest oil buyer, and 1st biggest trader partner for Russia.
> 6. Both have the same interest in many international and U.N affairs.
> 7. Both face the same threat from the other side of the earth.
> 8. Russia government support China claims in SCS dispute, not with Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds nice ... pls don't copy China, first try copying Su-30mk2 u need that for u lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, SEA MINES defeat China and PLAN ... China as Vietnam's neighbor, the biggest trader in the world also world n.o2 military expenditure country, China had 2nd achievement.


you forget SCO is merely a loose organisation, an informal circle, not a military alliance.

NATO is a military alliance. America has multiple defence pacts, such as with Japan, South Korea and Philippines.

do you have any military alliance at all?

not with Pakistan. it is just your security partner. good as a tool against India.

not with North Korea. you dump the Kim dynasty.

Holding talks, joining anti-terrorist drills, buying resources, developing this and that with Russians does not make you to a military brother of Russia. or do you want to say, if Russia and America are at war, you will support Russia and attack the US?

as for the mess in the South China sea, yes, the Russians changed their stance a bit favouring China. but it is a half hearted support. yes, the Russians oppose international arbitration. end of the story. the Russians never say South China sea is yours, or other bullshit claims such as, your claim bases upon history. all lies. I bet you bribe them with money. I just wonder how much.

yes, we are not happy after hearing the new russia stance. our Army chief General Ngo Xuan Lich went to Moskow, visiting his counterpart Russian Minister of Defence General Sergey Shoigu, asking for explanation.

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## Aqsuperman

vtnsx said:


> Lol, can you write me an essay?
> Take it easy, AQ. You are in a tandrum.
> 
> I'm not even trying. I think you are. Anyways, as I mentioned before. I don't want to read your emotional childish rant. You can keep writing to me. But as I said before, you are just wasting your time and my time. Now, just shut up and move on, please. Why is it so hard for you to understand?



Lol can you show some guts first ? First you want me to reply to you directly then now you chicken out ? If you bring up a topic then prepare to face counter arguments. You are not trying to argue, you are trying to divert the current subject of the thread with your tail between your legs. After all that insult and blabbing i guess that fit you imagine the most eh ? Well keep playing that "Im old and experienced" crap and hope everyone bite it, to me i think you sound more like a woman than a man. 

Sure i will move on. But do remember to keep all those trashy ideas and wet dream theory to yourself. Or better, shut the hell up completely and "post something useful". And dont talk a bout person intention in his absent.If i dont happen to show up, you will babbling half a mile to the forum about how i "mysteriously" require a apology from everyone and the "greatness" of democracy in Vietnam with the current level of citizen standards. Dont want to hear a "childish rant" anymore ? Then learn to wear a pant instead of a skirt in this forum  .PEACE. OUT 

A line of M101 howitzers. Veteran and rugged. A primary tactical fire support to the VPA and currently under a modernize project to increase mobility. Still quite short range though


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## Viet

Welcome to Vietnam!

a Japanese landing vessel, together with two hospital ships, one from America, one from Vietnam, will stage Pacific Partnership 2016 mission in the waters of Da Nang city from July 15 - 28.


Japanese landing vessel "JDS _Shimokita"_







US Hospital ship "USNS Mercy"







Vietnam hospital ship "Khanh Hoa 01"

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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Lol can you show some guts first ? First you want me to reply to you directly then now you chicken out ? If you bring up a topic then prepare to face counter arguments. You are not trying to argue, you are trying to divert the current subject of the thread with your tail between your legs. After all that insult and blabbing i guess that fit you imagine the most eh ? Well keep playing that "Im old and experienced" crap and hope everyone bite it, to me i think you sound more like a woman than a man.
> 
> *Sure i will move on*. But do remember to keep all those trashy ideas and wet dream theory to yourself. Or better, shut the hell up completely and "post something useful". And dont talk a bout person intention in his absent.If i dont happen to show up, you will babbling half a mile to the forum about how i "mysteriously" require a apology from everyone and the "greatness" of democracy in Vietnam with the current level of citizen standards. Dont want to hear a "childish rant" anymore ? Then learn to wear a pant instead of a skirt in this forum  .PEACE. OUT
> 
> A line of M101 howitzers. Veteran and rugged. A primary tactical fire support to the VPA and currently under a modernize project to increase mobility. Still quite short range though



"*Sure i will move on"*

Good boy. If you want to argue, go to the street market of Vietnam and argue with the ladies there. You will fit in perfectly in that area. You sound just like them. Otherwise, I don't want to hear your garbage childish rant.

But you're starting to understand Democracy.


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## Aqsuperman

vtnsx said:


> "*Sure i will move on"*
> 
> Good boy. If you want to argue, go to the street market of Vietnam and argue with the ladies there. You will fit in perfectly in that area. You sound just like them.



Why do i have to go to the market when i can find the same type of person here ?  

HQ 521. A self - produced landing ship. Comparable to the old LST ships in service.


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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> Why do i have to go to the market when i can find the same type of person here ?
> 
> HQ 521. A self - produced landing ship. Comparable to the old LST ships in service.



lol, the only person here is just you. No one is like you. Trust me on that. Don't be a naive child.

And please, do us a favor and stop posting garbage news like this. It's not even news ffs.


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> lol, the only person here is just you. No one is like you. Trust me on that. Don't be a naive child.
> 
> And please, do us a favor and stop posting garbage news like this. It's not even news ffs.


bro it may be time to calm down a bit. every news that shows progress of the Vietnam People Army is worth to post. I do it here all the times. Not nice at all saying 'garbage' to Vietnam made weapons. Everyone needs to start somewhere.

Manufactured by domestic defence company Z125, recruits are trained on anti-tank recoilless gun SPG-9 calibre 73 mm. max range 1,300 m.

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## Carlosa

The new generation of Vietnam’s artillery forces

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 07/15/2016 






*Following in the footsteps of veterans, new recruits to Vietnam’s artillery unit are quickly becoming accustomed to the relentless training needed to achieve the specialized skills and elite combat readiness their older counterparts were known for.*

A typical day for the 434 Artillery Brigade, under the Vietnam People’s Army, begins at 7:00 am when soldiers gather on the exercise field, shovels in hand.

After the soldiers are assembled, Captain Nguyen Duy Cuong’s loud and assertive voice begins commands, instructing troops to start the exercise by digging holes and readying their weapons.

“The holes are filled with firewood that will cushion the recoil from the cannon as it fires,” the instructor elaborated.

According to Cuong, members of the brigade are specialized in three types of artillery - the 130 millimeter gun, the 105 millimeter howitzer, and the multiple rocket launcher BM-21.

Wiping his sweat during break time, Sau Sau Phuoc Hiep, a 22-year-old soldier from District 5, Ho Chi Minh City, said that he has been in the military for five months.

“I was equipped with basic knowledge and tactical skills in the first three months before beginning specialized artillery training a month and a half ago,” Hiep recalled.

All of the cannons appeared terrifying at first, the soldier said, adding that his fear was soon replaced by excitement and curiosity about their operation.

“I consider myself lucky to be able to learn about and interact with this type of weaponry,” Hiep said.

*A bit homesick*

Private Ho Van Minh Tieng, 21, from the southern province of Ben Tre, shared some insight into his life as a military rookie during a brief interview with _Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper.

“Things were difficult at first and the lifestyle was so unfamiliar, but we have grown to be brothers. Whenever I feel homesick, my comrades are always there to cheer me up,” Tieng said.

Expressing a similar opinion, Hiep stated that it took him over a month to start adapting to the new environment, adding that the longest he had ever been away from home was just a few days.

“I joined the army when I was a senior majoring in hospitality services. I packed my bags and left as soon as I got the notice. My family was furious,” Hiep joked as he recounted.

From a playful and humorous student, Hiep has matured throughout his short army life.

“You have to work and study from early morning until bedtime. There is no time to feel homesick, which is a good thing,” the soldier stated, adding that he has lost almost 13 kilograms since joining.

It is common for troops to miss their homes during their first days, said Captain Thai Quoc Dung, the political commissar of the unit and a veteran at guiding new recruits.

“I sometimes catch them crying over their parents or lovers,” Dung continued.

Aside from their busy schedule, the encouragement from their commanders helps the recruits adapt to a new lifestyle.

The troops have learned to take care of themselves and bond with each other as they practice, clean the cannons, and participate in sports and other artistic activities, Dung stated.

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## AViet

Vntsx is just a typical Northerner-hater and a race traitor, with deep inferiority complex. Who care even if he got 03 PhD degrees from some "Western university".

He talks as if a degree from some "Western university" make him know everything in this world and give him the right to judge other nations, especially East Asian nations, what is wrong and what is right. With him, anyone speaks impeccable English can be his teacher.

With his sickening mentality, no need to waste time with him.


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## Aqsuperman

vtnsx said:


> lol, the only person here is just you. No one is like you. Trust me on that. Don't be a naive child.
> 
> And please, do us a favor and stop posting garbage news like this. It's not even news ffs.



What do you think are "news" ? Viet stills post about Vietnam War operation sometime so its not OK for me to post about the current equipment ?

You see i intend to pass over all of your CRAPPY and pure RETARDED idea. But hey, if you want to wrestle about HOW i post military news, i will damn sure play it with you till the end. "Garbage" ? LOL LOL LOL great observation from a womanly coward eh ? So you have post some super duper modern news about weapon for the army yet or just horsecrap political theory ? Do you even see some military equipment yet or google is all you can do ? HQ 521 is not a military equipment ? Do you even know about its class and capacity yet ? You know what. MAN THE FCK UP. Everyone know you act like woman and not even a matured woman so keep lying to your pathetic butt that you actually have some RESPECT around here. Naive child ? Maybe, but surely no one here is like a coward which only good at bitc*ing. You can quote me on that.

Great news for the VPAF. The arrival of SPYDER into our harbor add a new short range AA to our arsenal

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## Viet

superman, great pictures ending of all speculations. but I think it is just the supporting system that is being delivered, not seeing radars, missiles. especially what missiles? only short range or medium range too? we may need both to protect our airspace in the SC sea.

@Carlosa


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> superman, great pictures ending of all speculations. but I think it is just the supporting system that is being delivered, not seeing radars, missiles. especially what missiles? only short range or medium range too? we may need both to protect our airspace in the SC sea.
> 
> @Carlosa



That is going to depend on what variant we are using, SR or MR. But the missiles will be most likely either Python or Derby. I also see that we are using MAN, a German firm in stead of TARTRA. 

And i think that is the CC system. The firing units are not in sight yet.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> That is going to depend on what variant we are using, SR or MR. But the missiles will be most likely either Python or Derby. I also see that we are using MAN, a German firm in stead of TARTRA.
> 
> And i think that is the CC system. The firing units are not in sight yet.


ok ...considering chinese military build-up, especially since they put air assets on the new artificial islands, a new layer to our airdefence system is necessary.


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## MacanJawa

Dayum SPYDER,Pantsyr,S-300,S-400 Vietnam air defence is so strong
meanwhile in indonesia still use grandpa s-60, zsu 23, orleikon triple gun

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> superman, great pictures ending of all speculations. but I think it is just the supporting system that is being delivered, not seeing radars, missiles. especially what missiles? only short range or medium range too? we may need both to protect our airspace in the SC sea.
> 
> @Carlosa



There is one Spyder unit that is already operational, its deployed in Hanoi and is Spyder SR.

If the stuff in the pictures just arrived, then this is a second unit. By looking at the pics, Its difficult to say what version it is, the back of the trucks is covered. We need to see the TELs, then we'll know.

Spyder SR TELs have just 1 row of missiles while the MR version has 2 rows.



MacanJawa said:


> Dayum SPYDER,Pantsyr,S-300,S-400 Vietnam air defence is so strong
> meanwhile in indonesia still use grandpa s-60, zsu 23, orleikon triple gun



Also BUK-M2.

Air defense is very important for Vietnam. Indonesia has a more relaxed situation, so it can use the money for different priorities.

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## Farhan Bohra

Aqsuperman said:


> Well i LOVE when a military thread turn political by people who dont have remotely enough information about what is going on around the world or the history of a country yet boldly made many conclusions. Since certain people cant read and probably having a hard time on Google, i will give you some interesting information:
> 
> 1/ "Baseless", "limited" ? Well the guy said that surely dont know anything about "Democracy" in the world except on books and pure theory. Let me list a few notable examples about what happen to "democracy" in the past. Do remember that i dont claim all democracy will be like this:
> 
> _ South Vietnam: A "certified" democracy by US standards. Now let google Ngo Dinh Diem assassination or coup and election frauds in South Vietnam. Feel free to read English sources and see what happen to that "democracy". Democracy like communism in a sense that if people act precisely and exactly like what on the theory, things will surely better, they both have a tight procedure and structure to follow. But as the VN old slogan :'Làm theo năng lực, hưởng theo nhu cầu" or "Do what you can, earn what you want" that fail miserably, democracy in Vietnam was and will face the same destruction. People care little about the country benefit, only about themselves. In just 5 years from 1960 to 1965 there are numerous coup attempts and assassination. The election frauds and corruptions are rampaging. Are there anyone got punished by the constitution? A few............if you lose that is. Guess the people at this time will do MUCH better eh ?
> 
> _South Korea: Another "certified" democracy by US standards. Nowadays the country is fine and prosperous because the people see the COUNTRY benefits first. Before that, things were much more difficult. I guess we all know the name of Park Chung Hee and Chun Doo hwan. These are generals that utilize the political instability to become president. While i do see many advantage they bring to the country, they are famous for many thing else. And for people that thought constitution will always fair and square, Yushin constitution will be a damn nice example. And what happen to them ? Chun Doo Hwan nearly kill a future SK president, embezzle state fund and what ? "A president pardon" and he got out easily.
> 
> _United States: Here we are, the biggest democracy in the world. I dont see any TRANSPARENCY anywhere. 2003 Iraq invasion, where is the god damn WMD ? The newspaper that cover the war sunk the issue down like nothing. 2011 Libya bombing, i mean for what ? "Free the people and bring them happiness" ? Now surely Libyan is in a state of "extreme happiness". And of course let talk about Richard Nixon with the famous Watergate scandal, what happen to him ? Jail time ? nope. "A president pardon" and there he goes out happy and fine. Well i guess being a president do help you a lot. Immunity were given out like fall leaves. Other people involved in such a massive scandal and surely unconstitutional event under orders by an active President never spend more than 3 years in jail............Well the biggest Democracy in the work "work out" very good eh ? Such "good and precise" punishment for Richard Nixon and his cliche, right ? "Challenge it and you will be punished" my butt. And you talk about the Second Amendments, you call its a tool for people to keep the government in check, i call it a cause for uncontrollable mass shootings and murders. Pick the one you like
> 
> 2/ For the person that are NOT from Vietnam, here are also good stuff for you:
> 
> _ Dis i say we achieve stability right after 1975 ? i only say we have it NOW after LONG time. Dont put your "assumed" words into my mouth. And about the naming of the city. Ho Chi Minh is our leader in our war of revolution since the France time. People that serve the France and then the American against him were TRAITORS. You dont colonize a country, cut it in half and when someone achieved victory, re - unite the country and made changes, you claim that is wrong ? A location name can easily change a dozen times, why do we have to play by someone else preference ? I guess Washington D.C that is named after George Washington better change back to something like "State of Potomac" ? HISTORICALLY correct right ?
> 
> If this too hard to stomach for you, check this: Mount Rushmore. This is the place taken by American after the American - Indian war. Now in the 1927 after all the Indian got throw into the conservation, the first four presidents of the United States faces are carved into the mountain. Sound fair to the Indian ? Oh lets use your own word instead : "A political gestures to show that the Indian has lost their land, we own you now and here we will carve our founding presidents into the mountain to mark the occasion".
> 
> Purge and concentration camps. Well after the American Revolution and then the Civil war, things have to done about the American Royalist and the South States. Much have nothing against the new regime but there are people seeking the old ways. That when stuff go bad. In Vietnam, its the same. Printing counterfeit, mounting arms resistance, sabotaging key facilities, etc. What is your suggestion to stop it ? Sit by and wait till it happen more and more on a wider scale ? We did what it take, there are controversial mistakes and grave errors were makes but we try our best to made up for those people.
> 
> Foe conclusion, i did see many good qualities of democracy. but i also know that its can only be exploited by people with high cultural standards. If people only care about their own benefits, democracy will bring nothing but extra problems. Greek government now struggle to survive due to many presidents post - retirements care programs that strain the nation budgets. And that is only if we dont kill ourselves first and do China a big favor. Have fun hoping that our people can refine the thing instead of smashing it down and turn the country into a mass exodus that is happen on plenty of countries now.



When you replying to me quote me, dont know how to use browser? Or some superiority complex issue?
Lastly, even after rigging the elections, South Korea is a prosperous and full fledged democracy.

Lol, because of afraid of rigging you accepted One party rule. obviously why one party need rigging? , This is the best argument I ever heard. 
You proved party's reeducation program giving fruits now.

And BTW, I am Indian, and from top to bottom, from president to JCO, everyone take oath to protect constitution and its democracy. Maybe because of this I am biased.

But this is the first time I ever heard one party rule is just awesome as in democracy rigging exist. Thats wonderful thought.



Aqsuperman said:


> _ Dis i say we achieve stability right after 1975 ? i only say we have it NOW after LONG time. Dont put your "assumed" words into my mouth.


Nobody putting words in your mouth. Are you typing or speaking? 



> And about the naming of the city. Ho Chi Minh is our leader in our war of revolution since the France time. People that serve the France and then the American against him were TRAITORS.


He reunite the country? Or he was sipping coffee in bunkers constructed by Mao and USSR? And planing a life in Soviet Russia, in case Kennedy order to cross DMZ? Lol, this is serious disgrace toward your own people and toward what sacrifice they made.



> You dont colonize a country, cut it in half and when someone achieved victory, re - unite the country and made changes, you claim that is wrong ? A location name can easily change a dozen times, why do we have to play by someone else preference ? I guess Washington D.C that is named after George Washington better change back to something like "State of Potomac" ? HISTORICALLY correct right ?



Lol, do you know meaning of changing name politically. To show defeat to South?
Washington DC was new city. And State of Potomac was not the name of city but of region. And neither choosing Washington was political. And yes Washington DC is historically correct. And seriously Washington was hero, it take lot of guts as first leader to share power and establish Constitution on Liberty & Democracy. Sorry, but not a single leader of North had such qualities neither will power.

Waging war & defeating a superpower is not a quality, even Afghanistan defeated Soviet Union. So we consider Hekmatyar as Hero? No? 

Ok, if that was not political, then why not Vietnam renamed Hanoi? Why Saigon.



> If this too hard to stomach for you, check this: Mount Rushmore. This is the place taken by American after the American - Indian war. Now in the 1927 after all the Indian got throw into the conservation, the first four presidents of the United States faces are carved into the mountain. Sound fair to the Indian ? Oh lets use your own word instead : "A political gestures to show that the Indian has lost their land, we own you now and here we will carve our founding presidents into the mountain to mark the occasion".


This is your justification? Fck, because in some time ago slavery was in US, so slavery in Vietnam is also alright? Or thats why right after war North considered South as slaves?



> Purge and concentration camps. Well after the American Revolution and then the Civil war, things have to done about the American Royalist and the South States. Much have nothing against the new regime but there are people seeking the old ways. That when stuff go bad. In Vietnam, its the same. Printing counterfeit, mounting arms resistance, sabotaging key facilities, etc. What is your suggestion to stop it ? Sit by and wait till it happen more and more on a wider scale ? We did what it take, there are controversial mistakes and grave errors were makes but we try our best to made up for those people.


Lol, you take lot of example from US. No that was not purging. Start to distinguish between two. Otherwise right after war, there would be no leader from South.

The most topmost leadership of South survived and even lived freely. And even released Jefferson David after some four years.






> Foe conclusion, i did see many good qualities of democracy. *but i also know that its can only be exploited by people with high cultural standards*. If people only care about their own benefits, democracy will bring nothing but extra problems. Greek government now struggle to survive due to many presidents post - retirements care programs that strain the nation budgets. And that is only if we dont kill ourselves first and do China a big favor. Have fun hoping that our people can refine the thing instead of smashing it down and turn the country into a mass exodus that is happen on plenty of countries now.



So what the party doing tell me. Oh wait, they making leaders from poor families. [/QUOTE]


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## Farhan Bohra

Aqsuperman said:


> _United States: Here we are, the biggest democracy in the world. I dont see any TRANSPARENCY anywhere. 2003 Iraq invasion, where is the god damn WMD ?


Democracy anything to do with supreme national interest? You mixing two things into one.



> ". And of course let talk about Richard Nixon with the famous Watergate scandal, what happen to him ? Jail time ? nope. "A president pardon" and there he goes out happy and fine.



Atleast he had to resign otherwise impeached, I dont think this ever happen in Vietnam. Even they dont give a shit about such matters.

Further, Mao laughed on this that a leader had to resign over Watergate. So, dont compare Democracy with One party rule. If Democracy is at 10,000 feet in sky, then one party rule is not even at ground. That is somewhere near earth core.

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## vtnsx

Aqsuperman said:


> What do you think are "news" ? Viet stills post about Vietnam War operation sometime so its not OK for me to post about the current equipment ?
> 
> You see i intend to pass over all of your CRAPPY and pure RETARDED idea. But hey, if you want to wrestle about HOW i post military news, i will damn sure play it with you till the end. "Garbage" ? LOL LOL LOL great observation from a womanly coward eh ? So you have post some super duper modern news about weapon for the army yet or just horsecrap political theory ? Do you even see some military equipment yet or google is all you can do ? HQ 521 is not a military equipment ? Do you even know about its class and capacity yet ? You know what. MAN THE FCK UP. Everyone know you act like woman and not even a matured woman so keep lying to your pathetic butt that you actually have some RESPECT around here. Naive child ? Maybe, but surely no one here is like a coward which only good at bitc*ing. You can quote me on that.
> 
> Great news for the VPAF. The arrival of SPYDER into our harbor add a new short range AA to our arsenal




THANG NGU!! Vietnam has no capability yet. *VCP don't just rely on these tools.* They rely mostly on strategy and applying these tools appropriately. And yes, you are a naive child because you can't think pass grade 4. Your posts are garbage and a waste of space in this forum. Learn some common sense. You are 25 years old. It must be very difficult for you to shut up. Lol. The more you talk, the dumber you show yourself to me. The only woman here is you. You whine more than a street market lady. 

Please try to reframe yourself. I don't want to be liable for causing you to have a heart attack. 

You are boring.


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## Nike

it is just me, but i feel this good thread had been dragged into the mud by some member

or else i will start to calling mods to clean this thread from useless rants


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> THANG NGU!! Vietnam has no capability yet. *VCP don't just rely on these tools.* They rely mostly on strategy and applying these tools appropriately. And yes, you are a naive child because you can't think pass grade 4. Your posts are garbage and a waste of space in this forum. Learn some common sense. You are 25 years old. It must be very difficult for you to shut up. Lol. The more you talk, the dumber you show yourself to me. The only woman here is you. You whine more than a street market lady.
> 
> Please try to reframe yourself. I don't want to be liable for causing you to have a heart attack.
> 
> You are boring.


I suggest you stop here. If you want to troll go elsewhere!



madokafc said:


> it is just me, but i feel this good thread had been dragged into the mud by some member
> 
> or else i will start to calling mods to clean this thread from useless rants


Feel free and call the mod.

@Hu Songshan


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## S10

Serious question, when will Vietnam develop or purchase new tanks? Those T-62 and Type 59 are getting real old and I don't think anybody even sells upgrade packages for them anymore.


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## Lazgrane

S10 said:


> Serious question, when will Vietnam develop or purchase new tanks? Those T-62 and Type 59 are getting real old and I don't think anybody even sells upgrade packages for them anymore.


There are no possible land wars in sight so new tanks aren't a terribly high concern right now.


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## Aqsuperman

Well i just delete my previous post. The thread have greatly derail thanks to certain womanly coward and outsider but well, i guess i shouldnt provoke people that have limited processing skills and prefer a skirt instead of a pant 

Gepards with average ASW . Still require something more.


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## Nike

Indonesia priorities is to cover the large islands we had with extensive logistic supply ships for sustainment and prolonged patrol duty on land and sea and more patrol boats. Vietnam on other hand need to revamp their Air Defense units with more AA systems


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## Farhan Bohra

Aqsuperman said:


> Well i just delete my previous post. The thread have greatly derail thanks to certain womanly coward and outsider but well, i guess i shouldnt provoke people that have limited processing skills and prefer a skirt instead of a pant
> 
> Gepards with average ASW . Still require something more.


Yes I am a coward, and very limited IQ? So what?
Still unable to grasp some facts of life from a coward. Lol.

I noticed one thing, where single party exist,,, they use word coward too much, even that is nonsense wrt argument.

So what I am coward? Maybe in Vietnam cowards not liable to speak, but in many parts of world,,, they do actually. That's the beauty, you see.

So, next time if you don't have counter argument, don't blame others,,, blame yourself.

And then if its about derail, military of each & every part of world is political, somewhere that is high, somewhere that is low.

Military is not just about equipments, its also about mentality & ideology in which military believe. Why you think coups happen?

But I know you unable to grasp such facts as it coming from coward & outsider. But those are realities. Sometimes it good to have reality check instead of living in cookoo land. Read the book Army & Nation by Steve Wilkinson. That may help you. 

But for now,,, bye bye, c u next time.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Gepards with average ASW . Still require something more.



Yes, it certainly requires a decent air defense. With a Palma and 2 AK-630s, this ship is only good for patrols during peacetime or littoral operations under the mainland air defense umbrella. I'm glad is only $350 million per ship. Add another $50 million and can buy a S-400 battery which is a lot more useful I would say.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Indonesia priorities is to cover the large islands we had with extensive logistic supply ships for sustainment and prolonged patrol duty on land and sea and more patrol boats. Vietnam on other hand need to revamp their Air Defense units with more AA systems


It is all about a question of possibilities. The likelihood of Chinese aerial assault on Indonesia islands and homeland is much lesser than on Vietnam. yes, stating the obvious, our security situation is as not as the same as of your country. You can concentrate on some few fields of defence, while we virtually have to cover everything.

Lucky Indonesia. Did I say it already?


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## Nike

Viet said:


> It is all about a question of possibilities. The likelihood of Chinese aerial assault on Indonesia islands and homeland is much lesser than on Vietnam. yes, stating the obvious, our security situation is as not as the same as of your country. You can concentrate on some few fields of defence, while we virtually have to cover everything.
> 
> Lucky Indonesia. Did I say it already?



and that's why i had stated it before, you need to revamp your army


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> and that's why i had stated it before, you need to revamp your army


We are midst of largest military build-up since end of Vietnam war. What is seen in this thread is just a very few military capacities of our army. We have a long history of hiding our real fighting power before our opponents. When they realized, it mostly came to late for them, to escape our anger. So let them believe we are weak.

We launched a preemptive strike on the Chinese army during the Song, deep in chinese territory, completely annihilating their army before they completed building up the invasion force. So the Chinese should not make the mistake thinking we sit idle swallowing their aggression.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam detains activists after South China Sea ruling*

AFP•July 17, 2016

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vietnam-detains-activists-south-china-sea-ruling-051811155.html

Note: This news article is related to the South China Sea ruling, so it qualifies to be posted in this thread.




Anti-China activists protest in the capital of Vietnam Hanoi, on July 17, 2016 (AFP Photo/Nhac Nguyen)

Scores of activists were detained in Vietnam's capital on Sunday as they gathered to protest against China after it rejected a recent international ruling that dismissed its claims to much of the South China Sea.

Anti-Chinese sentiment runs deep in communist Vietnam but the country's authoritarian rulers move swiftly to tamp down expressions of public anger, fearful that allowing such protests might embolden criticism of their rule.

Activists had used social media to call for protests in Hanoi on Sunday in the wake of this week's ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague which found there was no legal basis for Beijing's claims to vast swathes of the South China Sea.

The case was brought by the Philippines but the ruling has been a boon for other regional countries like Vietnam who also have competing claims to the strategic sea.

Authorities in the capital Hanoi were ready for protests on Sunday.

Plainclothes security forces were out in force, blanketing much of the city centre and keeping a close eye on any crowds that might be gathering, an AFP reporter on the scene said.

Throughout the morning around 30 activists were swiftly bundled onto waiting buses and cars by security forces after they gathered to hold a protest near the city's famous Hoan Kiem lake, a common spot for demonstrations.

Some chanted "Down with China invasion!" as they were led away to detention.

Later in the day a group of nine activists held a brief rally outside the Philippines embassy. One held aloft a banner that read: "Thank you Philippines. You have a brave government."

The group dispersed on motorbike before security forces arrived.

Activists posted pictures on social media of similar flashmob rallies in southern Ho Chi Minh City with protesters riding around the city on motorbikes holding banners criticising China.

Beijing lays claim to virtually all of the South China Sea, putting it at odds with regional neighbours the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, which also have partial claims.

China boycotted the PCA hearings, saying the court had no jurisdiction, and has reacted furiously, vowing to ignore the ruling and arguing it misinterprets international law.

Vietnam and China frequently trade diplomatic barbs over the disputed Paracel island chain and waters in the South China Sea.

China has encouraged patriotic citizens to visit the contested Paracels, which are known as Xisha in Chinese.

Such acts have deepened already simmering anti-Chinese sentiment in Vietnam while domestic critics accuse Hanoi of being too meek towards its giant northern neighbour.

At least three Chinese nationals were killed in 2014 when rioting broke out in Vietnam after Beijing sent an oil rig into contested waters.

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## Viet

Carlosa, it is ok to post.

A few protesters tried to stage protest but blocked by authority. Many major western media report the event. including die deutsche welle, a German state news agency. That shows how thing becomes increasing tense. And how thing becomes rediculous.


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> I suggest you stop here. If you want to troll go elsewhere!
> 
> 
> Feel free and call the mod.
> 
> @Hu Songshan



That is not trolling. That is transferring logic into the kid's head. So he can realize what he has been doing. I've already told him to stop. Don't tell me, I know when to stop. You should tell him.



AViet said:


> Vntsx is just a typical Northerner-hater and a race traitor, with deep inferiority complex. Who care even if he got 03 PhD degrees from some "Western university".
> 
> He talks as if a degree from some "Western university" make him know everything in this world and give him the right to judge other nations, especially East Asian nations, what is wrong and what is right. With him, anyone speaks impeccable English can be his teacher.
> 
> With his sickening mentality, no need to waste time with him.



How is my mentality sickening, when you don't understand what im talking about? Education matters, bud. Sitting in the forum and running your mouth isn't. There is a difference between an olympic player than an ordinary person. So don't compare your level of knowledge to mine. Not saying this in a arrogant way.


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## Aqsuperman

Well i love when a certain womanly coward and mentally challenged pick his choice of words. Its feel just like he didnt do anything wrong and have never insulted anyone :v Even normal military posts like my SYPDER and HQ - 521 can intrigue his raging and the most funny part is he turn to "Vietnamese insult" to "transfer his logic" . LOL LOL LOL. Well everyone better keep away from him or he will drag you IQ level down to his and defeat you by sheer experiences. He will raging even if he hear your breath. I personally consider the guy to be a pre - puberty girl so everything is fine now . He will go to the "Democracy Olympic" one day so at least we better pretend he won several gold medal made of chocolate already.  Or better whenever he is raging, let put a simple response like this : 

Graduation ceremony in Russia with Vietnam Public Security Force


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam TV station drops Chinese drama over South China Sea dispute*




July 18, 2016
HANOI (Reuters) - A provincial Vietnamese TV channel has dropped a Chinese drama series after several Chinese actors condemned a court's decision that denied Beijing's vast claims to the South China Sea.

China claims most of the energy-rich waters through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

The Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, deciding a case lodged by the Philippines, ruled last week that China's "nine-dash line" encircling its territory, almost all the South China Sea, was illegal and breached Manila's sovereign rights.

"Due to some objective reasons related to several Chinese actors criticizing the court's ruling on the nine-dash line and to show clear views of a mouthpiece under the Communist Party and the State, Binh Thuan TV announces the suspension of broadcasting of 'Shanghai Bund'," a station anchor said in a video posted by media.

"Shanghai Bund" is a Chinese television series remake of the 1980 Hong Kong television series "The Bund", starring Huang Xiaoming, who voiced support for Beijing's claims. Binh Thuan TV is a state-run station based in the southern province of the same name.

Beijing has called the court ruling a farce and several Chinese celebrities have spoken up against the court's decision.

Many Vietnamese people have shared the video clip and showed support for the channel.

About 20 Vietnamese were detained on Sunday while trying to hold a protest against China's rejection of the court decision.

Vietnam has welcomed the ruling, but not said whether it will pursue the same legal path as the Philippines.

(Reporting by My Pham; Editing by Nick Macfie)

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, it is ok to post.
> 
> A few protesters tried to stage protest but blocked by authority. Many major western media report the event. including die deutsche welle, a German state news agency. That shows how thing becomes increasing tense. And how thing becomes rediculous.



According to comcom, the contract with India to upgrade the ASW systems of 2 Petya ships is only $30 million (for both ships). That's pretty cheap, a lot of equipment will go into those 2 ships. As I often say, buying from India is a lot cheaper than from Russia and they have a lot of good stuff.

As a point of comparison, the second batch of Gepards is exactly twice the cost of the first batch and the only difference is the ASW, that's $175 million per ship difference. To be fair, part of that is also inflation, but still......

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## cnleio

Vietnam imported Israel SPYDER anti-aircraft missiles to replace S75M near Hanoi city

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> According to comcom, the contract with India to upgrade the ASW systems of 2 Petya ships is only $30 million (for both ships). That's pretty cheap, a lot of equipment will go into those 2 ships. As I often say, buying from India is a lot cheaper than from Russia and they have a lot of good stuff.
> 
> As a point of comparison, the second batch of Gepards is exactly twice the cost of the first batch and the only difference is the ASW, that's $175 million per ship difference. To be fair, part of that is also inflation, but still......


If $15 million per ship to get it modernized by the latest weaponry, yes, it is absolutely making sense. Having just a single provider makes one paying a higher price. Economy 1x1. I believe the only thing some people in the army are worried is quality. are India make weapons of high quality and absolutely reliable?



vtnsx said:


> That is not trolling. That is transferring logic into the kid's head. So he can realize what he has been doing. I've already told him to stop. Don't tell me, I know when to stop. You should tell him.
> 
> 
> 
> How is my mentality sickening, when you don't understand what im talking about? Education matters, bud. Sitting in the forum and running your mouth isn't. There is a difference between an olympic player than an ordinary person. So don't compare your level of knowledge to mine. Not saying this in a arrogant way.


It is all about because you asked superman to stop posting Vietnam military news, I am just saying you you shouldn't. Not saying anything else. Everyone knows the problems we are facing. Corruption and incompetence are the two major issues. Nobody can deny that.

But this thread is about army news, not what political party is best.


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## Viet

Not sure if this news is posted?

Home Maritime Security

Maritime Security
News
*Vietnam will build upgraded TT-400TP series ships*
Mar 28, 2016




TT-400TP cannon ship

According to the Russian press, it is negotiating with Vietnam to support close range TT-400TP warships upgrade.

In an interview with the Russian press in February 2016, the director of the shipyard Mid-Nevsky Vladimir Seredoho said that, the factory is preparing to sign a contract with the Vietnam People’s Navy to the after-sales service terms of projects warships in the 2016 TT-400TP this.

“We’re done for six ships of TT-400TP project for the Navy in Vietnam. These ships have already been distributed in Vietnam Navy. Today we are preparing a contract after-sales service with Vietnam, when the warranty period expires in 2016, “said Seredoho.

According to Mr Vladimir Seredoho, parallel to the negotiations on after-sales services are continuing negotiations on building a series of warships TT-400TP upgrade.

“The shape of the ship will be like, Vietnam partners have not decided. Before the end of 2016, we will proceed with the signing of the contract,” he said Seredoho.

TT-400TP warships patrol boats variations or TT-400 is produced by Factory Z173 (Company Hong Ha).

The vessel has a length of 54 m, width 9.1 m, full load of 480 tons of water relaxation, maximum speed 32 knots / hour, maximum range of 2,500 nautical miles. The ship can operate continuously at sea for 30 days and nights, with combat capability in the 5 wave conditions.

But TT-400TP is domestic product of Vietnam, but the system of sensors, radar and weapons on board were Russian-made. So it’s no wonder to say that Russia join TT-400TP ship cannon.

TT-400TP firepower with gunboats 76,2mm caliber AK-176 (range 15 km), high-speed anti-aircraft artillery AK-630 (4 km range, rate of fire of 5,000 player / min), 2 Dalian 14 , 5mm and low-altitude air defense missile Igla.

defense-studies.blogspot.com


*RELATED ARTICLE :*



May 11, 2015Visiring the 681 Brigade of the Navy Vietnam




Apr 25, 2016Russia to supply two Gepard frigates to Vietnam in late 2016


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> If $15 million per ship to get it modernized by the latest weaponry, yes, it is absolutely making sense. Having just a single provider makes one paying a higher price. Economy 1x1. I believe the only thing some people in the army are worried is quality. are India make weapons of high quality and absolutely reliable?.



I don't know enough about every piece of equipment that will be used in the upgrade, but the sonars should be very good since they are derivatives from Thales sonars and Thales makes the best sonars in Europe. I think the overall package is very good.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I don't know enough about every piece of equipment that will be used in the upgrade, but the sonars should be very good since they are derivatives from Thales sonars and Thales makes the best sonars in Europe. I think the overall package is very good.


I think we are overall on a good path with increasing military cooperation with India. Hope we can do on the economic front as well. If India wants cheap goods and services why not buying from Vietnam? Superpower Chinese can sell their stuffs elsewhere. India can be a huge market for us.

What do you think?

Another hot topic. I once asked Chinese posters here how much money they pay other nations such as Cambodia, Russia in order to get the support, the okay for chinese claim and position in the SC sea?

No answer.

We will probably never know. But now we get a hint. According to the news, China agrees to give $600 millions to Cambodia. For election assistance and other infrastructure financing.

I am ready to bet, Russia gets at least $10 billions. Not only because Russia is much bigger, but the Chinese want Russia to reduce its brotherhood to Vietnam.

So we can roughly calculate how much it costs China to get 60 countries to get their support.

Even the Chinese have trillions dollars in their vaults, the outflow of money will hurt them a lot. You as businessman, having experience in dealing with them, probably know, how hard is it to get a yuan out of their pocket, don't you?

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## xiao qi

> How trained and capable are the current Vietnamese forces? How sophisticated is their equipment?


 One question related to Vietnam on Quora. Can someone help me solve the question? i really dont know much about our army.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> One question related to Vietnam on Quora. Can someone help me solve the question? i really dont know much about our army.


Actually only Vietnam army leadership can answer your question. But I think we would expect too much if a response is coming.

Vietnam military capability is a guarded secret. Both military hardware and trainings of the soldiers. Some are disclosed and revealed but not all. One example: the bunker within Thanh Long imperial citadel in Hanoi was the headquarters of the Vietnam People's Army during the Vietnam war. From 1954 to 1975. But the location was revealed just some time ago. 40 years after the war.

Our army fears no country in SE Asia. Even their armies are united, they have little chance. We can take on hightec armies of Japan and Korea. Our biggest concern is China. She is our major security threat. To fight the Chinese we need both modern military hardware and intelligence. To avoid a war with them, we need both a sophisticated diplomacy and a threat of escalation of the conflict.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think we are overall on a good path with increasing military cooperation with India. Hope we can do on the economic front as well. If India wants cheap goods and services why not buying from Vietnam? Superpower Chinese can sell their stuffs elsewhere. India can be a huge market for us.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Another hot topic. I once asked Chinese posters here how much money they pay other nations such as Cambodia, Russia in order to get the support, the okay for chinese claim and position in the SC sea?
> 
> No answer.
> 
> We will probably never know. But now we get a hint. According to the news, China agrees to give $600 millions to Cambodia. For election assistance and other infrastructure financing.
> 
> I am ready to bet, Russia gets at least $10 billions. Not only because Russia is much bigger, but the Chinese want Russia to reduce its brotherhood to Vietnam.
> 
> So we can roughly calculate how much it costs China to get 60 countries to get their support.
> 
> Even the Chinese have trillions dollars in their vaults, the outflow of money will hurt them a lot. You as businessman, having experience in dealing with them, probably know, how hard is it to get a yuan out of their pocket, don't you?



Ha ha, its not easy at all to get yuans out of their pockets. Typical chinese business will cut corners and do everything they can just to reduce cost a little bit. That's why there are a lot of products from China that don't even work out of the box or stop working soon after.

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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> Yes, it certainly requires a decent air defense. With a Palma and 2 AK-630s, this ship is only good for patrols during peacetime or littoral operations under the mainland air defense umbrella. I'm glad is only_* $350 million per ship*_. Add another $50 million and can buy a S-400 battery which is a lot more useful I would say.


? I think you got wrong info, Gepard class 's only cost ~ $170~ $200 mil per ship.


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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> ? I think you got wrong info, Gepard class 's only cost ~ $170~ $200 mil per ship.



I'm talking about the second batch, all the sources including comcom said 350 million per ship. The first batch was 175 million per ship.

If you have reliable price info, then please tell us about the source.


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## Soryu

Carlosa said:


> I'm talking about the second batch, all the sources including comcom said 350 million per ship. The first batch was 175 million per ship.
> 
> If you have reliable price info, then please tell us about the source.



I read from a article. Not sure 100% about first or second batch. It's just add ASW system and become double price !?

Any sources outside comcom !?
Comcom is more for fun, not most reliable.

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## Carlosa

Soryu said:


> I read from a article. Not sure 100% about first or second batch. It's just add ASW system and become double price !?
> 
> Any sources outside comcom !?
> Comcom is more for fun, not most reliable.



For that price, for sure is for the first batch. A number of sources quoted the 350 million per ship, not just comcom. That's the only price that came out so far. Part of the difference is the ASW equipment and there is always inflation after a few years, but still, its too much of a difference unless there is something else included in the contract, but as usual, no details. When SIPRI gets to post the sale, we'll have confirmation of the contract value.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> We will probably never know. But now we get a hint. According to the news, China agrees to give $600 millions to Cambodia. For election assistance and other infrastructure financing.
> 
> I am ready to bet, Russia gets at least $10 billions. Not only because Russia is much bigger, but the Chinese want Russia to reduce its brotherhood to Vietnam.
> 
> So we can roughly calculate how much it costs China to get 60 countries to get their support.
> 
> Even the Chinese have trillions dollars in their vaults, the outflow of money will hurt them a lot. You as businessman, having experience in dealing with them, probably know, how hard is it to get a yuan out of their pocket, don't you?



you think the 600million USD support is a complete 600 million USD outflow to us? Haha. 

maybe Cambodia wants to build a new railway line. Super. China Railway Group will do the construction work for them. The construction will use excavators and cement pump trucks from Sany, cranes and wheeled-loaders from Xuzhou Construction Machinery Group, bulldozers from Shantui, Tunnel boring machine (TBM) from China Railway Engineering Equipment Group. The signaling system of the rails will be supplied by China Railway Signal & Communication Corp. The trains, no matter locomotives (diesel or electric), coaches, or wagons, will all be supplied by either CSR or CNR.

maybe Cambodia wants to build a new power plant. Super. China Machinery Engineering Corp. will do the construction work for Cambodia. Again, using a full spectrum of construction equipment from the Chinese companies. The power generation equipment will be supplied by either Shanghai Electric, Harbin Electric, or Dongfang Electric. The power transmission equipment will be supplied by either Tebian Electric or China XD Group. 

maybe Cambodia wants to improve the public transportation systems in Phnom Penh. No problem! It can choose the conventional ICE buses from Yutong, King Long, or Foton. If it wants electric buses, BYD is there! If it wants to have a metro line, fine, Chinese construction contractor, Chinese construction equipment and Chinese metro vehicles are waiting for choice.

In the end, you will find the money is only moved from the pockets of the Chinese government, to the pockets of the Chinese companies and Chinese workers. Cambodia gets the improved infrastructure; Chinese companies gets the orders of new equipment sales, as well as access to the more profitable after sales business; and Chinese workers get the wages to support their families. Moreover, with the improved infrastructures in Cambodia, more Chinese machinery and vehicles will find their markets in Cambodia.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> I'm talking about the second batch, all the sources including comcom said 350 million per ship. The first batch was 175 million per ship.
> 
> If you have reliable price info, then please tell us about the source.



Since I could not post a direct link, here's the quote and screen capture.









> Ngày 17.10.2012, Việt Nam đặt Nga đóng tiếp 2 tàu hộ tống tên lửa Gepard 3.9, trị giá 700 triệu USD, có chức năng săn ngầm.


Rough translation: On October 17th 2012, Vietnam ordered another two Gepard 3.9 frigate with ASW capability from Russia, the order worth is 700 million USD.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Since I could not post a direct link, here's the quote and screen capture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rough translation: On October 17th 2012, Vietnam ordered another two Gepard 3.9 frigate with ASW capability from Russia, the order worth is 700 million USD.



Heyyyyyy, are you the same silent knight of the MP forum? I hope..........


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Heyyyyyy, are you the same silent knight of the MP forum? I hope..........


Yes, it's me. Seems like you didn't get my email, so I had to register here to contact you.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Yes, it's me. Seems like you didn't get my email, so I had to register here to contact you.



I no longer have that google email, sorry about that. I'll send you a message.


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## MacanJawa

did vietnam have plan buy modern tanks and ifv?


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## Carlosa

MacanJawa said:


> did vietnam have plan buy modern tanks and ifv?



VN is rumored to be buying or negotiating for T-90MS. Already bought BMP-3F and BTR-82 for the marines.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Got the message?


Unfortunately no, didn't see any message. The message system here is very strange to me.



MacanJawa said:


> did vietnam have plan buy modern tanks and ifv?


Yes. Unconfirmed sources claim there are orders for a few battalions of T-90MS.

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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> VN is rumored to be buying or negotiating for T-90MS. Already bought BMP-3F and BTR-82 for the marines.



BMP3f is very good choice for amphibious assault, indonesia marine use this machine

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## Carlosa

MacanJawa said:


> BMP3f is very good choice for amphibious assault, indonesia marine use this machine



Yes, I'd say its the best one from Russia.


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## papacita

Carlosa said:


> VN is rumored to be buying or negotiating for T-90MS. Already bought BMP-3F and BTR-82 for the marines.



Any links or pictures of Vietnam's BMP-3F and BTR-82?


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Since I could not post a direct link, here's the quote and screen capture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rough translation: On October 17th 2012, Vietnam ordered another two Gepard 3.9 frigate with ASW capability from Russia, the order worth is 700 million USD.


bro Welcome to pdf, the greatest military forum on this universe. The only forum, where China & Far East only exist in name. Because 99 percent are Chinese related topics. Hope more Viet members will follow suit. Enjoy and share your thoughts here.

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## Aqsuperman

papacita said:


> Any links or pictures of Vietnam's BMP-3F and BTR-82?



Well the only problem is there is large gap between order and delivery. SYPDER has been ordered for quite sometime yet we can only see it now when its arrived in our harbor. Same can be said about other contracts such as the French 155mm SPA. And if the BTR-82 and BMP-3 are indeed ordered, we have to wait sometime to see them in action.  

Old picture of VN contingent in Cambodia back in the days. These are PT-76

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## Carlosa

papacita said:


> Any links or pictures of Vietnam's BMP-3F and BTR-82?



I have not seen any pictures and I don't know if there have been any deliveries yet, I'll have to search for links.



Silent Knight said:


> Since I could not post a direct link, here's the quote and screen capture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rough translation: On October 17th 2012, Vietnam ordered another two Gepard 3.9 frigate with ASW capability from Russia, the order worth is 700 million USD.



SK, do you have any idea why the price doubled? Its a bit more than what can be accounted by the ASW equipment and inflation. Is there some other big item included in the contract?


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## papacita

Aqsuperman said:


> Well the only problem is there is large gap between order and delivery. SYPDER has been ordered for quite sometime yet we can only see it now when its arrived in our harbor. Same can be said about other contracts such as the French 155mm SPA. And if the BTR-82 and BMP-3 are indeed ordered, we have to wait sometime to see them in action.



Except SPYDER deal was easy to find anywhere. I found it hard to look for any articles about BTR-82 and BMP-3 deals.  Also the CAESAR deal outside articles with TTU Online as the source which only cited "expected to sign". If true, those equipment will really boost your military strength a lot though!

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## Carlosa

papacita said:


> Except SPYDER deal was easy to find anywhere. I found it hard to look for any articles about BTR-82 and BMP-3 deals.  Also the CAESAR deal outside articles with TTU Online as the source which only cited "expected to sign". If true, those equipment will really boost your military strength a lot though!



I have to also tell you that very often Vietnam does not confirm or give any information whatsoever about army purchases, that's actually the traditional line. What is happening now with Spyder is actually a new situation, a new openness. They typically don't show pics of the latest equipment until newer equipment gets introduced. They are extremely secretive, beyond what is necessary in my opinion.

As a example, one of the representatives of the Russian military export agency announced last year that they were contacted by Vietnam to upgrade their 380 T-72s and everybody goes: "What T-72s?" Since when Vietnam has T-72s? That's how it is with Vietnam, so its really difficult to know or confirm what they really have.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> SK, do you have any idea why the price doubled? Its a bit more than what can be accounted by the ASW equipment and inflation. Is there some other big item included in the contract?


Beside the ASW equipment and improved AK-176M1/Palma systems, I have no idea at all. 

Meanwhile, the Su-27 squadron might get something new, not just new paint job. Again, rumor said it to be improved avionics, allowing them to use the RVV-AE and tracking more targets at once.

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## Viet

Two Vietnam made transport and replenisment vessels for the German company Opus Marine.

„Presto“ and „Vivace“

Manufactured by Vietnam's strategic marine shipyard, the 27.5 meter long vessel has a crew of three, can carry 24 passengers, 30 tons goods or 35,000 liters fuel. 4 x Caterpillar engines, top speed 30 knots. Cost: 2 million euro a piece. The German company is satisfied by the boat performance and considers placing more orders.


*



*



*

*


*

*

*

*

*

*

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## Viet

Test firing EXTRA missile

A report says the Navy plans to install EXTRA system on Molynia corvettes.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Test firing EXTRA missile
> 
> A report says the Navy plans to install EXTRA system on Molynia corvettes.



Now, that's very interesting. Did the report say why? I can only think about the fact that having the Orbiter UAV as part of the system, that would give the ship its own way to locate and track targets at stand off range that normally it would have to rely on other outside assets (if available) to do the same and in that area, Vietnam is quite weak at the moment.

Any other details?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> A report says the Navy plans to install EXTRA system on Molynia corvettes.


Very strange, and make no sense at all.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Very strange, and make no sense at all.


Extra is basically a land attack missile. If the Molynia have Extra, the warships will have a similar capacity like the Kilo with Kalibr.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Extra is basically a land attack missile. If the Molynia have Extra, the warships will have a similar capacity like the Kilo with Kalibr.



Where did you get that info?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Extra is basically a land attack missile. If the Molynia have Extra, the warships will have a similar capacity like the Kilo with Kalibr.


It IS a ground-to-ground rocket system, hence the name "*Ext*ended *R*ange *A*rtillery Rocket". Their designated purpose with the Navy is for shore-defense and counter-amphibious warfare.

It might be sensible to equip large landing ships with an EXTRA launcher. But Molniya class? Better go with the KCT-15 and Yakhont missiles.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> It IS a ground-to-ground rocket system, hence the name "*Ext*ended *R*ange *A*rtillery Rocket". Their designated purpose with the Navy is for shore-defense and counter-amphibious warfare.
> 
> It might be sensible to equip large landing ships with an EXTRA launcher. But Molniya class? Better go with the KCT-15 and Yakhont missiles.



It definitely is a very strange proposition.

Are we going to see a TT-400TP with the KCT-15 sometime soon?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Where did you get that info?


Baodatviet.vn

I am on holiday in France. Have to look for info on my small iPhone, understandably can't post thing easily. Internet isn't reliable either.



Silent Knight said:


> It IS a ground-to-ground rocket system, hence the name "*Ext*ended *R*ange *A*rtillery Rocket". Their designated purpose with the Navy is for shore-defense and counter-amphibious warfare.
> 
> It might be sensible to equip large landing ships with an EXTRA launcher. But Molniya class? Better go with the KCT-15 and Yakhont missiles.


Yakhont, Kct-15 are antiship missiles. And they aren't cheap. The Navy looks for a cheap missile, capable to bombard enemy amphibious forces, attacking land installations. I believe they are very concerned about a possible Chinese assault.

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## Viet

Actually we can build dredging vessels, too.

Dvina, manufactured by Song Thu shipyard, a 2,800 tons dredger for a Russia company. 89.35 meters in length, capable to withstand deep temperature as low as -35 degree.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Yakhont, Kct-15 are antiship missiles. And they aren't cheap. The Navy looks for a cheap missile, *capable to bombard enemy amphibious forces, attacking land installations*. I believe they are very concerned about a possible Chinese assault.


You can also heard that Vietnam might convert some KCT-15 into land-attack variant. And I believe that for the sole purpose of attacking enemy installation, the 3M14E on Kilo class subs would be better.

The bold: Place a battery of EXTRA on Spratly Islands sounds sensible, right?

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> You can also heard that Vietnam might convert some KCT-15 into land-attack variant. And I believe that for the sole purpose of attacking enemy installation, the 3M14E on Kilo class subs would be better.
> 
> The bold: Place a battery of EXTRA on Spratly Islands sounds sensible, right?



This is what @Viet found in Baodatviet.vn about the EXTRA in Molniya ships:

Hải quân Nhân dân Việt Nam cũng đã được trang bị hệ thống vũ khí này với biến thể triển khai trên mặt đất có thể tác chiến chống hạm của tên lửa EXTRA để có thể bổ sung sức mạnh tác chiến cho lực lượng phòng thủ đảo và bờ biển.

Trong đoạn clip mới đây nhất nói về việc Hải quân Việt Nam bắn thử nghiệm vũ khí trên 2 tàu tên lửa cao tốc Molniya tự đóng trong nước, đồng thời bắn nghiệm thu một số loại tên lửa đang có trong trang bị, cho thấy Việt Nam đã sở hữu và có thể sẽ trang bị EXTRA lên tàu Molniya.

Google translation (not very good): 
Vietnam people's Navy has also been equipped with this weapon system with variations of deployment on the ground can rocket anti-ship warfare EXTRA to be able to supplement the combat strength of the troops defending the island and the coast.

In the clip most recently talking about Vietnam Navy weapons testing on the 2 high speed missile boat in the water itself, They simultaneously fired several test missiles are in service, shows that Vietnam has owned and could be fitted with EXTRA aboard Molniya.

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## Silent Knight

Most likely speculation from Baodatviet and has no information to backup their claims.

BDV has been an unreliable source in the last few years, they've spreaded more misinformation than actual facts or inside view. I'll keep a skeptical attitude with the EXTRA on Molniya thingy.

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## vtnsx

Silent Knight said:


> Most likely speculation from Baodatviet and has no information to backup their claims.
> 
> BDV has been an unreliable source in the last few years, they've spreaded more misinformation than actual facts or inside view. I'll keep a skeptical attitude with the EXTRA on Molniya thingy.


What city are you from?


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Most likely speculation from Baodatviet and has no information to backup their claims.
> 
> BDV has been an unreliable source in the last few years, they've spreaded more misinformation than actual facts or inside view. I'll keep a skeptical attitude with the EXTRA on Molniya thingy.



Yeah, same as Soha.vn and a few others. Just tabloids that put out articles like a sausage machine. They often pick info at PDF also to come up with articles.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, same as Soha.vn and a few others. Just tabloids that put out articles like a sausage machine. They often pick info at PDF also to come up with articles.


I know that is not 100 percent reliable info. The problem is not isolated on baodatviet, but yes soha comcom tintuc and many others. The only reliable source is the of the army itself: qdnd.vn

But you get even less info because the site mostly reports political activities of the army. Or you see picture of tank such as this one in a maintenance facility. Wonderful isn't it? 






Ảnh minh họa. Nguồn: QĐND Online.

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## Silent Knight

Well, at least ComCom has access to restricted facilities and military bases that even bigger newspapers cannot get their feet onto. 



vtnsx said:


> What city are you from?


Hanoi. What do you want to know from me?

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Well, at least ComCom has access to restricted facilities and military bases that even bigger newspapers cannot get their feet onto.


Ok ok if so we should try luring one or two comcom guys into this thread. That will make more fun. Since the info is put on Facebook we can assume it isn't classified.

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## xiao qi

Silent Knight said:


> Well, at least ComCom has access to restricted facilities and military bases that even bigger newspapers cannot get their feet onto.
> 
> 
> Hanoi. What do you want to know from me?


I heard some information that supposed admin Comcom is an ex-soldier


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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> I heard some information that supposed admin Comcom is an ex-soldier



Silent Knight is the admin of comcom........ He is Navy actually.



Viet said:


> Ok ok if so we should try luring one or two comcom guys into this thread. That will make more fun. Since the info is put on Facebook we can assume it isn't classified.



There has been one already in the thread for some time (can't say if he is still there), his name begins with aq

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Silent Knight is the admin of comcom........ He is Navy actually.
> 
> 
> 
> There has been one already in the thread for some time (can't say if he is still there), his name begins with aq


Na perfecto ...

May I ask SK about the Molynia? the 4 more of number we have heard long a while but not confirmed and how the future of the warship looks like?



Carlosa said:


> It definitely is a very strange proposition.
> 
> Are we going to see a TT-400TP with the KCT-15 sometime soon?


I believe that is coming. The gunship will become a missile ship.

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## Silent Knight

xiao qi said:


> I heard some information that supposed admin Comcom is an ex-soldier


Some are civilians, others are active high ranking officers and NCOs. We'll never know.



Viet said:


> May I ask SK about the Molynia? the 4 more of number we have heard long a while but not confirmed and how the future of the warship looks like?


According to this document, the next 4 Molniya boats (M7-M10) will be armed with [redacted] missile systems instead of the Uran-E (3M24E and KCT-15). The Russians have agreed with this requirement and they are considering the replacement for Garpun-B fire control radar.

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## vtnsx

Carlosa said:


> Silent Knight is the admin of comcom........ He is Navy actually.
> 
> 
> 
> There has been one already in the thread for some time (can't say if he is still there), his name begins with aq


LOL!

*Vietnam built a modern air defense missile: Surprise incredible!*

Source: http://soha.vn/viet-nam-che-tao-ten-lua-phong-khong-hien-dai-bat-ngo-kho-tin-20160720120519616.htm

Wow about time! As I expected. This is only going to get better and better. Now Vietnam needs to work on Rocket engine and then master the art of Super Long Range Missiles and Satellite. Hopefully, one day would be Space Travel.











These results were achieved in a short time since officially embarked on research TL-01 led the scientists have more motivation, more enthusiastic to accelerate deployment, early out rocket launch line really "made in Vietnam".

*Bright prospects for anti-aircraft missiles "Made in Vietnam"*

Obviously, if you buy a technology transfer license Igla-S production, we will soon have in hand a large amount of low-altitude air defense missile modern alternative to the missile A-72, A-87 somewhat outdated, does not meet modern warfare environment, most are not able to pass through the layer of interference, decoys new generation.

Hopefully, TL-01 is successful, we will have the TL-02, TL-03, ... with more and more distant range, maneuverability Wildlife Vietnam, commanded, controlled at a high level of automation , covered the fire from the low net to level, remotely approaching, make sure to destroy any flying target national airspace infringement.

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## Carlosa

vtnsx said:


> LOL!
> 
> *Vietnam built a modern air defense missile: Surprise incredible!*
> 
> Source: http://soha.vn/viet-nam-che-tao-ten-lua-phong-khong-hien-dai-bat-ngo-kho-tin-20160720120519616.htm
> 
> Wow about time! As I expected. This is only going to get better and better. Now Vietnam needs to work on Rocket engine and then master the art of Super Long Range Missiles and Satellite. Hopefully, one day would be Space Travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These results were achieved in a short time since officially embarked on research TL-01 led the scientists have more motivation, more enthusiastic to accelerate deployment, early out rocket launch line really "made in Vietnam".
> 
> *Bright prospects for anti-aircraft missiles "Made in Vietnam"*
> 
> Obviously, if you buy a technology transfer license Igla-S production, we will soon have in hand a large amount of low-altitude air defense missile modern alternative to the missile A-72, A-87 somewhat outdated, does not meet modern warfare environment, most are not able to pass through the layer of interference, decoys new generation.
> 
> Hopefully, TL-01 is successful, we will have the TL-02, TL-03, ... with more and more distant range, maneuverability Wildlife Vietnam, commanded, controlled at a high level of automation , covered the fire from the low net to level, remotely approaching, make sure to destroy any flying target national airspace infringement.



I saw that article too (didn't want to post it since I read it through google translate and that's always pretty bad). I think its just a Vietnamese version of the Igla, basically a domestic derivative of the Igla made under license. This was also hinted a few months ago when the head of Viettel said that they were designing a domestic air defense missile. Actually, that picture comes from that presentation.

There is no details, but I would hope that they can make larger versions with more range, lock after launch feature, etc. Such versions would be a bit like a baby Spyder with infrared seeker. Such system would be a good add on to the automated air defense guns that are being made, a bit like a baby Palma, baby Pantsyr, etc. I think is very possible.



vtnsx said:


> LOL!
> 
> *Vietnam built a modern air defense missile: Surprise incredible!*
> 
> Source: http://soha.vn/viet-nam-che-tao-ten-lua-phong-khong-hien-dai-bat-ngo-kho-tin-20160720120519616.htm
> 
> Wow about time! As I expected. This is only going to get better and better. Now Vietnam needs to work on Rocket engine and then master the art of Super Long Range Missiles and Satellite. Hopefully, one day would be Space Travel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These results were achieved in a short time since officially embarked on research TL-01 led the scientists have more motivation, more enthusiastic to accelerate deployment, early out rocket launch line really "made in Vietnam".
> 
> *Bright prospects for anti-aircraft missiles "Made in Vietnam"*
> 
> Obviously, if you buy a technology transfer license Igla-S production, we will soon have in hand a large amount of low-altitude air defense missile modern alternative to the missile A-72, A-87 somewhat outdated, does not meet modern warfare environment, most are not able to pass through the layer of interference, decoys new generation.
> 
> Hopefully, TL-01 is successful, we will have the TL-02, TL-03, ... with more and more distant range, maneuverability Wildlife Vietnam, commanded, controlled at a high level of automation , covered the fire from the low net to level, remotely approaching, make sure to destroy any flying target national airspace infringement.



Add a version of that missile to the recently announced domestic 30mm, gatling gun for air defense and you can have a baby Palma.

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## Silent Knight

According to that article, the TL-01 or KC-1 project was NOT based on Igla-S or Igla-1 design. Strange.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> According to that article, the TL-01 or KC-1 project was NOT based on Igla-S or Igla-1 design. Strange.



Oh, that makes it even more interesting. I didn't get that from the google translation, google translation is terrible.

Well, even better then, just couple that missile with a 30mm gatling and the eyeball with the infrared sensors and laser rangefinder and you have a baby Palma, these pics give the idea:

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## vtnsx

*Vietnam to buy the number of tanks T-90MS larger than planned*


Source: http://soha.vn/viet-nam-mua-so-luong-xe-tang-t-90ms-lon-hon-du-dinh-2016072011082741.htm

Good to hear VN is buying some of the T90MS






New T90MS





Old

In today's fight, even the kind has improved their fighting capabilities than modern weaponry is very low, they are considered the armored veterans bring historical value . Besides Vietnam, the Chinese military is also using a lot of this type of tank.

Therefore, to meet the needs of Vietnam has conducted meetings and ordering buy new tank T-90MS from Russia to gradually replace obsolete types. Representatives of Russia has stated that, Vietnam will buy much larger quantities than the original figure of only 28 units.

According to the manufacturer introduced uralvagonzavod, T-90MS tanks are equipped with the engine capacity of 1,130 horsepower with the automatic transmission 7 forward gears and one reverse gear, Sosna-U PNM viewfinder, automatically controlled turret UDP T05BV-1 RWS mounted 7.62 mm caliber Dalian, inertial navigation systems GLONASS and in particular with explosive reactive armor new enhanced protection capabilities.

Earlier it was reported that Vietnam has agreed to acquire T-90 or T-90A. They are earlier versions of T-90MS. Compare physical characteristics and their ability to fight is clearly superior to T-90MS.

Currently, the situation of the region and the world is increasingly complicated and potentially conflicting. So the military modernization is one of the urgent needs of our Army.

---------------------------------------------------

A clip of the T90MS vs TOW missile (Made in USA) in Syria






That missile didn't hit the tank. The tank has an active missile defense system which is really cool to watch.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> According to that article, the TL-01 or KC-1 project was NOT based on Igla-S or Igla-1 design. Strange.



So it is not clear yet what kind of built in seeker or guidance it uses, right?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> So it is not clear yet what kind of built in seeker or guidance it uses, right?


Total mystery until I get my hands on it.

@vtnsx The T-90 in Syria doesn't have active protection system. It was hit in the front of turret, the ERA successfully deflected the penetration jet stream.

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## vtnsx

Carlosa said:


> I saw that article too (didn't want to post it since I read it through google translate and that's always pretty bad). I think its just a Vietnamese version of the Igla, basically a domestic derivative of the Igla made under license. This was also hinted a few months ago when the head of Viettel said that they were designing a domestic air defense missile. Actually, that picture comes from that presentation.
> 
> There is no details, but I would hope that they can make larger versions with more range, lock after launch feature, etc. Such versions would be a bit like a baby Spyder with infrared seeker. Such system would be a good add on to the automated air defense guns that are being made, a bit like a baby Palma, baby Pantsyr, etc. I think is very possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Add a version of that missile to the recently announced domestic 30mm, gatling gun for air defense and you can have a baby Palma.
> 
> View attachment 319439



This missile was built using tech transfer which is similar to NATO I believe. It is a starting point into building smart missiles. The limited range is most likely due to the material being used, rocket size and type of rocket fuel used. But these are available on Earth.



Silent Knight said:


> Total mystery until I get my hands on it.
> 
> @vtnsx The T-90 in Syria doesn't have active protection system. It was hit in the front of turret, the ERA successfully deflected the penetration jet stream.



T-90 doesn't have the ERA, I agree.
The T-90MS does have that. The video was just an example but it's not a clear one.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Na perfecto ...
> 
> May I ask SK about the Molynia? the 4 more of number we have heard long a while but not confirmed and how the future of the warship looks like?
> 
> 
> I believe that is coming. The gunship will become a missile ship.



Your sis madokafc is doing quite a bit of talking about you and others in the Indonesian thread (in Indonesian language only), I suggest you ignore her, no need to deal with this kind of people. You can see it here:

https://defence.pk/threads/indonesia-military-news-discussion-thread.229571/page-690

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## Silent Knight

vtnsx said:


> T-90 doesn't have the ERA, I agree.
> The T-90MS does have that. The video was just an example but it's not a clear one.


ERA = Explosive Reactive Armor = that clam shell thingy on the turret front. This is a form of passive protection system which is default for T-90 MBT, no matter what variant we're talking about.

No T-90 variant in active combat at the moment is equipped with Active Protection System (i.e. Arena), only the T-80s do and they rarely carry them too.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Your sis madokafc is doing quite a bit of talking about you and others in the Indonesian thread (in Indonesian language only), I suggest you ignore her, no need to deal with this kind of people. You can see it here:
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/indonesia-military-news-discussion-thread.229571/page-690


He he he

When I put the words down, I had calculated with "other" posters reactions. But I believe they should have more humor. my post was very mild as you can re-read it, I avoided mentioning any particular country, not going deep into details 



Silent Knight said:


> According to this document, the next 4 Molniya boats (M7-M10) will be armed with [redacted] missile systems instead of the Uran-E (3M24E and KCT-15). The Russians have agreed with this requirement and they are considering the replacement for Garpun-B fire control radar.


Redacted? What is it? A code name for Kalibr?

Good news that we complete the program of 10 vessels. In my opinion we need more boats. More more boats. Because we need more presence in the SC sea.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> He he he
> 
> When I put the words down, I had calculated with "other" posters reactions. But I believe they should have more humor. my post was very mild as you can re-read it, I avoided mentioning any particular country, not going deep into details
> 
> 
> Redacted? What is it? A code name for Kalibr?



Redacted in this case meaning "edited".


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Redacted in this cased meaning "edited".


Ok it must be Kalibr. It isn't a secret the Russians are offering the system for Molynia since a year. I think the Navy chooses both variants: antishipping and land attack missiles.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Redacted? What is it? A code name for Kalibr?


Redacted as in "censored", you can see that parts of the paragraph was censored to avoid mentioning the name of missile systems or radar.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Redacted as in "censored", you can see that parts of the paragraph was censored to avoid mentioning the name of missile systems or radar.


Thanks

Personally I prefer the word censored as it lets no doubt in author intention 

What do you think of this:

We are witnessing Chinese rapid naval build-up and their aggressive posture in the South China Sea, and I believe there is a need for an aggressive response. we double the number of our surface warships and submarines in the next five years.

Unless the Chinese fire the first shot, we continue to stick to the three No's policy but 'modify' it a bit by increasing our interactions to America and Japan. Chinese arch enemies. Allowing access of US warships and aircraft carriers to the Cam Ranh bay, in addition to allowing Japanese surface warships, we grant access to Japanese submarines too.

I think we need both but bet the second will pose a more serious challenge, causing more headache to them than increasing the number of our warships at sea.

Time to step up the game.

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## Viet

Yen island, a paradise lying in the South China Sea

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Thanks
> 
> Personally I prefer the word censored as it lets no doubt in author intention
> 
> What do you think of this:
> 
> We are witnessing Chinese rapid naval build-up and their aggressive posture in the South China Sea, and I believe there is a need for an aggressive response. we double the number of our surface warships and submarines in the next five years.
> 
> Unless the Chinese fire the first shot, we continue to stick to the three No's policy but 'modify' it a bit by increasing our interactions to America and Japan. Chinese arch enemies. Allowing access of US warships and aircraft carriers to the Cam Ranh bay, in addition to allowing Japanese surface warships, we grant access to Japanese submarines too.
> 
> I think we need both but bet the second will pose a more serious challenge, causing more headache to them than increasing the number of our warships at sea.
> 
> Time to step up the game.



It would help if VN can discover a big gold mine to finance that naval build up.


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## vtnsx

Silent Knight said:


> ERA = Explosive Reactive Armor = that clam shell thingy on the turret front. This is a form of passive protection system which is default for T-90 MBT, no matter what variant we're talking about.
> 
> No T-90 variant in active combat at the moment is equipped with Active Protection System (i.e. Arena), only the T-80s do and they rarely carry them too.



I think we're both talking about the same thing.

From Wiki


> *T-90* – The first production version.
> *T-90K* – Commander's version of the T-90, with additional communication (station R-163-50K) and navigation equipment (TNA-4-3).[63][64]
> *T-90A* – Russian army version with welded turret, V-92S2 engine and ESSA thermal viewer. Sometimes called T-90 Vladimir.[65]
> *T-90AK* – Command version of T-90A.
> *T-90S* – Export version of the T-90, later adopted by the Russian Armed Forces as the T-90A. These tanks were made by Uralvagonzavod and were updated with 1,000 hp (750 kW) engines made by Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant. These tanks carry a leaner version of the Shtora-1 passive/active protection system which lacks the infra-red dazzlers carried on the turret. Sometimes called T-90C (Cyrillic letter es looks like a Latin _c_). These were initially supplied with cast turrets of the early T-90, and when stocks were depleted, new, welded turrets were fabricated.
> *T-90SK* – Commander's version of the T-90S, with additional communication and navigation equipment. It differs in radio and navigation equipment and Ainet remote-detonation system for HEF rounds.[63][64][65]
> *T-90S* "Bhishma" – modified T-90S in Indian service.
> *T-90AM* – Latest version of the T-90A.[66] The main features include the modernisation of the old turret design, which is equipped with a new advanced fire control system"Kalina" (with integrated combat information and control systems), a new automatic loader and a new upgraded gun 2A46M-5, as well as a remote-controlled anti-aircraft gun "UDP T05BV-1". The new version also includes the Relikt (Реликт (динамическая защита)) ERA bricks instead of the Kontakt-5 ERA bricks.[67] Other improvements include a new 1130HP engine, an enhanced environmental control system, and satellite navigation systems.
> *T-90MS* – New modernised (M) version of the export tank T-90S, with a 1130HP engine, a PNM Sosna-U gunner view, a 7.62 mm turret UDP T05BV-1 RWS, GLONASS, inertial navigation systems and new explosive reactive armour (ERA).[68][69][70] A new removable turret bustle is included, which provides storage for eight additional rounds. T-90MS is ready for serial production.[71]





Carlosa said:


> It would help if VN can discover a big gold mine to finance that naval build up.



Weren't someone said they were looking for a 4000 ton of gold somewhere in Vietnam? lol

*HOT: VN will produce thousands of modern air defense missile!*

Source: http://soha.vn/nong-vn-se-san-xuat-hang-nghin-ten-lua-phong-khong-hien-dai-20160721102556988.htm






As mentioned in the previous article " Vietnam made modern air defense missile: Surprise incredible! ", So far, the project made TL-01 missile has achieved positive results when scientists passionate school and our innovative technology mastered the fabrication of particularly important component of this type of short-range air defense missile this.

One of his achievements was the successful manufacture thermal batteries used for short-range air defense missile with a mission to provide energy for infrared homing head to catch the target.

No one else, the Engineers and scientist at the Department of Chemistry, Faculty of Physical Chemistry Technical (Military Technical Academy) who deserve to be honored, the completion of research projects granted DOD " completing the thermal battery manufacturing technology for low-level air defense. "

To date, the project has completed the process of thermal battery manufacturing technology;building assembly lines have a capacity of *300 products / year *and completed the construction of the technical standards for products.

Very glad to know, once we managed to manufacture batteries for low-altitude air defense missile, no reason to not heat the battery reaches the line more modern missiles, longer ranges.The main crux of the problem is there.

*Will produce thousands of rocket air defense!*

Upstream to find a little history is especially important role in air defense operations of the low-altitude air defense missile or (shoulder missile air defense).

Even when the Soviet air defense aid low-range A-72 (put into use in 1972), the ability to destroy low-flying targets of our Army has changed overall, prompting terrified enemies.

By the hands of the gunner yellow rocket, the first performance of the A-72 combat improved significantly, reaching 0.375 superior combat performance than 0.3 as calculated design manufacturer manufacturing (ie 1,000 shells killed 300 aircraft).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After mastering this and rocket technology. VN should lean towards Robotics and automation systems as well as Drones.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> We are witnessing Chinese rapid naval build-up and their aggressive posture in the South China Sea, and I believe there is a need for an aggressive response. we double the number of our surface warships and submarines in the next five years.
> 
> Unless the Chinese fire the first shot, we continue to stick to the three No's policy but 'modify' it a bit by increasing our interactions to America and Japan. Chinese arch enemies. Allowing access of US warships and aircraft carriers to the Cam Ranh bay, in addition to allowing Japanese surface warships, we grant access to Japanese submarines too.


Vietnam has opened the Cam Ranh maintenance facilities for foreign naval vessels and already taken several warships from other countries.

But I do believe that we don't want to internationalize the problem in South China Sea. Only countries bordering the SCS should resolve these problems.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> It would help if VN can discover a big gold mine to finance that naval build up.


Prior the WW I, in order to catch up with the British Royal Navy, the germans financed the giant warship building program by deficit spending and taking loans from the common folks. Maybe we can copy


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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> It would help if VN can discover a big gold mine to finance that naval build up.



Yep Vietnam buy lot new equipment and it will add lot cost to maintance equipment to keep running

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Prior the WW I, in order to catch up with the British Royal Navy, the germans financed the giant warship building program by deficit spending and taking loans from the common folks. Maybe we can copy


How? China's defense budget ($215 B ) is even larger than GDP of Vietnam.

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## Han Patriot

GS Zhou said:


> How? China's defense budget ($215 B ) is even larger than GDP of Vietnam.


They still don't get it. It's not about having the ships, it's about knowing how to build the ships. You can spend billions importing your weapons like India, but end of the day, you are still at the mercy of your suppliers.

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## BoQ77

How to get there, anyone know?
We are just back home from Tioman island, MY



Viet said:


> Yen island, a paradise lying in the South China Sea

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> How? China's defense budget ($215 B ) is even larger than GDP of Vietnam.


True our security situation is very precarious if not hopeless. because it's an impossible to build a credible defense posture with so little money as we spend right now ($5 billions). To build a creditable deterrent we need at least about the amount of budget of South Korea ($33 billions) or Japan ($42 billions).



Han Patriot said:


> They still don't get it. It's not about having the ships, it's about knowing how to build the ships. You can spend billions importing your weapons like India, but end of the day, you are still at the mercy of your suppliers.


No sorry I still don't understand what you are saying. Can you please speak a bit slower?


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## BoQ77

GS Zhou said:


> How? China's defense budget ($215 B ) is even larger than GDP of Vietnam.



because you have more enemies than us.

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## initial_d

BoQ77 said:


> because you have more enemies than us.


And still actively adding new enemy by the days....

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Vietnam's military spending today is about 2.3% of its GDP. (FYI: China's spending rate is 1.9%).
> 
> If the VN military budget increases to the amount that you desired, it will be about 15% of the GDP, or equivalent to the total government revenue. That means government will completely ignore its responsibilities on education, on healthcare, on infrastructures, on pension and social relief, etc. Even no money paid to teachers and police!!
> 
> Of course, as you are living in Germany, so no need for you to be headache of all these. But people still live in Vietnam could not have such fortune as yours.
> 
> 
> That's because we have a solid economy foundation!! We just spend 1.9% of our GDP on military, but your spending rate is 2.3%!


You seem to be a lazy guy as I notice you re-use the same texts. Haven't you noticed it? Try harder. I already read your post with nearly the same content elsewhere.

I am thinking Vietnam should acquire strategic weapon. Israel has nuclear weapons for her own survival as the Arab states threaten her with total annihilation. China as evidenced here as many Chinese posters threaten us with annihilation of the Viet race. 

Do you think we should pay more attention to education?

By the way, within ASEAN we have the highest percentage of government spendings on health and education. What do you think why Vietnam always scores high in Pisa ranking? Why Vietnam health system doesn't need to hide before others in the region?

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## Carlosa

vtnsx said:


> I think we're both talking about the same thing.
> 
> From Wiki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weren't someone said they were looking for a 4000 ton of gold somewhere in Vietnam? lol
> 
> *HOT: VN will produce thousands of modern air defense missile!*
> 
> Source: http://soha.vn/nong-vn-se-san-xuat-hang-nghin-ten-lua-phong-khong-hien-dai-20160721102556988.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As mentioned in the previous article " Vietnam made modern air defense missile: Surprise incredible! ", So far, the project made TL-01 missile has achieved positive results when scientists passionate school and our innovative technology mastered the fabrication of particularly important component of this type of short-range air defense missile this.
> 
> One of his achievements was the successful manufacture thermal batteries used for short-range air defense missile with a mission to provide energy for infrared homing head to catch the target.
> 
> No one else, the Engineers and scientist at the Department of Chemistry, Faculty of Physical Chemistry Technical (Military Technical Academy) who deserve to be honored, the completion of research projects granted DOD " completing the thermal battery manufacturing technology for low-level air defense. "
> 
> To date, the project has completed the process of thermal battery manufacturing technology;building assembly lines have a capacity of *300 products / year *and completed the construction of the technical standards for products.
> 
> Very glad to know, once we managed to manufacture batteries for low-altitude air defense missile, no reason to not heat the battery reaches the line more modern missiles, longer ranges.The main crux of the problem is there.
> 
> *Will produce thousands of rocket air defense!*
> 
> Upstream to find a little history is especially important role in air defense operations of the low-altitude air defense missile or (shoulder missile air defense).
> 
> Even when the Soviet air defense aid low-range A-72 (put into use in 1972), the ability to destroy low-flying targets of our Army has changed overall, prompting terrified enemies.
> 
> By the hands of the gunner yellow rocket, the first performance of the A-72 combat improved significantly, reaching 0.375 superior combat performance than 0.3 as calculated design manufacturer manufacturing (ie 1,000 shells killed 300 aircraft).
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> After mastering this and rocket technology. VN should lean towards Robotics and automation systems as well as Drones.



Real nice man, but it would be nice if they were to release some more details like what type of guidance, range, etc.



MacanJawa said:


> Yep Vietnam buy lot new equipment and it will add lot cost to maintance equipment to keep running



Yes, sophisticated equipment requires a serious amount of money every year for operations and maintenance. Need to find 2 gold mines, one to finance the purchasing and another one to finance the operations and maintenance.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> You still unable to grasp the fact that, Vietnam got the backing of US, Japan, UK, France, Russia etc etc. If Israel able to spend 15% of GDP toward defence, then why not Vietnam?
> 
> And my dear friend its not good for a chinese to talk education, on healthcare and social relief, etc. When China willingly killing millions for organs.


Well I can understand their motives. Although our defense budget is small but We should spend lesser on our defense which in turn will make things easier for them to send us into the next gas chamber.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Prior the WW I, in order to catch up with the British Royal Navy, the germans financed the giant warship building program by deficit spending and taking loans from the common folks. Maybe we can copy



There are a lot of complains already at the deficit at 63% of GDP bro.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Real nice man, but it would be nice if they were to release some more details like what type of guidance, range, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, sophisticated equipment requires a serious amount of money every year for operations and maintenance. Need to find 2 gold mines, one to finance the purchasing and another one to finance the operations and maintenance.



I think Vietnam need only one thing.
Changing the top leaders. In 10 years. 
New Vietnam is much better and stronger

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## Carlosa

Han Patriot said:


> They still don't get it. It's not about having the ships, it's about knowing how to build the ships. You can spend billions importing your weapons like India, but end of the day, you are still at the mercy of your suppliers.



China used to be in the same situation in the past. Vietnam will get there, it will take some time, but it will get there. India is already self sufficient when it comes to surface ships and it will soon be in submarines also, including nuclear subs. They will need some help with aircraft carriers, but only for very sophisticated stuff like the electromagnetic catapults. They can afford to buy the best while China for example is using domestic jet engines that are extremely unreliable and get pilots killed. I prefer the Indian approach.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> There are a lot of complains already at the deficit at 63% of GDP bro.


Even the government admits it. We have two biggest problems: corruption and incompetence. The latter in the form of many ineffective state owned enterprises produce but nothing than debts, causing our debt mountain to rise. Tackling this problem will make funds free for defense.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I think Vietnam need only one thing.
> Changing the top leaders. In 10 years.
> New Vietnam is much better and stronger



Welcome back bro. Please try not to get into more fights. The thread needs you.

Yes, many of those old fossil leaders need to go and let the younger generation, which is more capable get in, but I have to say that I feel very good about PM Phuc (so far).

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Welcome back bro. Please try not to get into more fights. The thread needs you.
> 
> Yes, many of those old fossil leaders need to go and let the younger generation, which is more capable get in, but I have to say that I feel very good about PM Phuc (so far).



Actually, recent two bans come with no warnings, so I don't know why.
Ask them about it, not any reply.

When I am aboard, I feel our Vietnam has many advantages, good natural conditions...
but no leaders took advantage of them, and any change is very slow.

Btw, The National Assembly meeting is ongoing. Let's hope for better changes.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Even the government admits it. We have two biggest problems: corruption and incompetence. The latter in the form of many ineffective state owned enterprises produce but nothing than debts, causing our debt mountain to rise. Tackling this problem will make funds free for defense.



Correct, corruption, incompetence and mismanagement are the big problems in Vietnam. When there is no accountability and government officials do as they please, that's the result. These issues are endemic and actually getting worse.

One example: golf courses, there are like a 100 already in Vietnam, but....... there is no regulations whatsoever, they discharge tons of chemicals that contaminate the water supply, that's how they keep the green lawn looking so beautiful. In Thailand there are very strong regulations, they have to have a layer undergrounds to not let the chemicals filtered down, etc, etc. In Vietnam, no problem, go ahead and do it, but please don't forget the red envelopes for me. Can the local people do anything about that? No!

Same story with the environmental regulations with industry, they don't check anything, they just let them do whatever they want and only when there is a disaster, then they come to check. Useless leadership.



BoQ77 said:


> Actually, recent two bans come with no warnings, so I don't know why.
> Ask them about it, not any reply.
> 
> When I am aboard, I feel our Vietnam has many advantages, good natural conditions...
> but no leaders took advantage of them, and any change is very slow.
> 
> Btw, The National Assembly meeting is ongoing. Let's hope for better changes.



You are being targeted because of your past fights with the chinese, its better that you don't get involved with them at all, avoid the discussions with them man. Just my suggestion.

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## BoQ77

As I noticed 2 pages of China and Far east , all thread now created by Chinese, and with "China, Chinese, Beijing, Shanghai ... in the title. and Several Vietnamese, Indian, PH members banned


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> As I noticed 2 pages of China and Far east , all thread now created by Chinese, and with "China, Chinese, Beijing, Shanghai ... in the title. and Several Vietnamese, Indian, PH members banned



Yes, typical Pakistani-chinese controlled forum. I think we should make our own forum, in English, but our own and open to everybody; anybody that comes to troll, BANNED! I have some plans for that, we can put a team together and do it, why not? What do you think?

What do you say @Viet @Silent Knight @vtnsx @Aqsuperman etc, are you in?

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Yes, typical Pakistani-chinese controlled forum. I think we should make our own forum, in English, but our own and open to everybody; anybody that comes to troll, BANNED! I have some plans for that, we can put a team together and do it, why not? What do you think?



Indian defence is good but quiet . how can you spice the forum up ?


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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> Yes, typical Pakistani-chinese controlled forum. I think we should make our own forum, in English, but our own and open to everybody; anybody that comes to troll, BANNED! I have some plans for that, we can put a team together and do it, why not? What do you think?



i will visit bro, and make indonesia thread


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Indian defence is good but quiet . how can you spice the forum up ?



We'll have to work on that and it all depends on getting people to come.



MacanJawa said:


> i will visit bro, and make indonesia thread



Absolutely bro. You bring your Indo bros. You will not be bothered by chinese (or anybody else), guaranteed.

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## Silent Knight

Friends, let me remind you that Vietnam doesn't want to take part in a new arms race. We simply want to defend our sovereignty and national interests. We don't invade anyone, so the current spending on national defense is acceptable.

Fact is, we don't hope to defeat China or any potential enemies. We only build up our forces to make them think twice before doing something incredibly stupid, make them think about things that they'd lose before gaining anything.

Remember the War against the US a.k.a Vietnam War? We didn't defeat the entire US Armed Forces, we drove them out of our sovereignty and unified the country. Same thing would happen if China or anyone else tries to invade Vietnam. So yeah, 5 billion $ per year is enough, no need to spend like Japan or South Korea.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Friends, let me remind you that Vietnam doesn't want to take part in a new arms race. We simply want to defend our sovereignty and national interests. We don't invade anyone, so the current spending on national defense is acceptable.
> 
> Fact is, we don't hope to defeat China or any potential enemies. We only build up our forces to make them think twice before doing something incredibly stupid, make them think about things that they'd lose before gaining anything.
> 
> Remember the War against the US a.k.a Vietnam War? We didn't defeat the entire US Armed Forces, we drove them out of our sovereignty and unified the country. Same thing would happen if China or anyone else tries to invade Vietnam. So yeah, 5 billion $ per year is enough, no need to spend like Japan or South Korea.



Words of wisdom (as usual) !!!!!


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## Han Patriot

Silent Knight said:


> Friends, let me remind you that Vietnam doesn't want to take part in a new arms race. We simply want to defend our sovereignty and national interests. We don't invade anyone, so the current spending on national defense is acceptable.
> 
> Fact is, we don't hope to defeat China or any potential enemies. We only build up our forces to make them think twice before doing something incredibly stupid, make them think about things that they'd lose before gaining anything.
> 
> Remember the War against the US a.k.a Vietnam War? We didn't defeat the entire US Armed Forces, we drove them out of our sovereignty and unified the country. Same thing would happen if China or anyone else tries to invade Vietnam. So yeah, 5 billion $ per year is enough, no need to spend like Japan or South Korea.



Friend,

China also doesn't want to colonize you, we just want out territories back. What the point of having a 100mil third world people to feed and educate?

It was never the intention to occupy mainland Vietnam. Naval warfare had always been a Vietnamnese soft spot, there are no jungles for you to hide. Else, why do you think Paracels had been under Chinese control for 40 plus years?

Why do you keep on thinking China is gonna invade mainland Vietnam? We just want the Spratlys. This is a long term game, Vietnam just need to fire one little shot and every single Viet controlled island will be invaded. Next will be Philipines, that will require 2-3 aircraft carriers, since once you invade all Phil controlled islands, you need those battle groups to come head on with the US.

The US will condemn China and then will 'patrol' nearby to prove a point. But once under Chinese control, bases will be quickly built and those islands will be forever under Chinese control.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, typical Pakistani-chinese controlled forum. I think we should make our own forum, in English, but our own and open to everybody; anybody that comes to troll, BANNED! I have some plans for that, we can put a team together and do it, why not? What do you think?
> 
> What do you say @Viet @Silent Knight @vtnsx @Aqsuperman etc, are you in?


Very good idea. I notice there isn't an English version of Viet defence forum yet.

Test firing Vietnam made 30 mm launcher Ags-17

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## MacanJawa

Viet said:


> Very good idea. I notice there isn't an English version of Viet defence forum yet.
> 
> Test firing Vietnam made 30 mm launcher Ags-17



nice, can be mounted on vehicle?


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## cnleio

Silent Knight said:


> Friends, let me remind you that Vietnam doesn't want to take part in a new arms race. We simply want to defend our sovereignty and national interests. We don't invade anyone, so the current spending on national defense is acceptable.
> 
> Fact is, we don't hope to defeat China or any potential enemies. We only build up our forces to make them think twice before doing something incredibly stupid, make them think about things that they'd lose before gaining anything.
> 
> Remember the War against the US a.k.a Vietnam War? We didn't defeat the entire US Armed Forces, we drove them out of our sovereignty and unified the country. Same thing would happen if China or anyone else tries to invade Vietnam. So yeah, 5 billion $ per year is enough, no need to spend like Japan or South Korea.


I like the wise, whatever he(she) is Vietnamese or Chinese .... said well ! But money still is importance to improve ur strength, when ur country not the rich ur best weapon is ur wisdom. If u can learn something from China past time (PRC not born as world N.o2 economy), u also will find ur way. Vietnam is small, a war easily burning everything that's the problem for all small nations ... but some get rich, absolutely not depend on war or arms race the rich come from ppl's wisdom.

My word, is small nation need more wisdom & patience than the bigger one.

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## Viet

Night exercise. Test firing an improved version of anti aircraft missile s-125. New: increase of range from 80 km to 100 km, altitude from 18 km to 25 km, the radar allows two missiles to concentrate on one single target, hitting it with very high accuracy.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Friends, let me remind you that Vietnam doesn't want to take part in a new arms race. We simply want to defend our sovereignty and national interests. We don't invade anyone, so the current spending on national defense is acceptable.
> 
> Fact is, we don't hope to defeat China or any potential enemies. We only build up our forces to make them think twice before doing something incredibly stupid, make them think about things that they'd lose before gaining anything.
> 
> Remember the War against the US a.k.a Vietnam War? We didn't defeat the entire US Armed Forces, we drove them out of our sovereignty and unified the country. Same thing would happen if China or anyone else tries to invade Vietnam. So yeah, 5 billion $ per year is enough, no need to spend like Japan or South Korea.



You are fast becoming popular SK, you got a positive rating from a chinese member (he is one of the best chinese members by the way, a friendly one).


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## MacanJawa

Viet said:


> Night exercise. Test firing an improved version of anti aircraft missile s-125. New: increase of range from 80 km to 100 km, altitude from 18 km to 25 km, the radar allows two missiles to concentrate on one single target, hitting it with very high accuracy.



what kind radar this system use?


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## Han Patriot

Carlosa said:


> China used to be in the same situation in the past. Vietnam will get there, it will take some time, but it will get there. India is already self sufficient when it comes to surface ships and it will soon be in submarines also, including nuclear subs. They will need some help with aircraft carriers, but only for very sophisticated stuff like the electromagnetic catapults. They can afford to buy the best while China for example is using domestic jet engines that are extremely unreliable and get pilots killed. I prefer the Indian approach.



Great, even you believe the Indian bullshit. Go ahead follow them, you know they are famous for talking and boasting right?
They boasted after independence thinking they are the British of Asia, China just kicked them in the the *** and now they are paranoid. With this kinda of simple minded Viets, i guess we just need to wait for those dozens 052D and 055, 2-3 carriers, new 095 subs to finish construction and then we are ready to roll.


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## Carlosa

Han Patriot said:


> Great, even you believe the Indian bullshit. Go ahead follow them, you know they are famous for talking and boasting right?
> They boasted after independence thinking they are the British of Asia, China just kicked them in the the *** and now they are paranoid. With this kinda of simple minded Viets, i guess we just need to wait for those dozens 052D and 055, 2-3 carriers, new 095 subs to finish construction and then we are ready to roll.



The ships that they are putting out is no bs man, they are very real and the domestic aircraft carrier under construction is also very real (and way ahead of the chinese domestic carrier under construction). They just commissioned the first nuclear sub with nuclear ballistic missiles. Like it or not, they are tailing you and they are going to be a force to reckon with. Feel free to ignore it and live in your own virtual world if you wish, but reality doesn't change just because you don't want to look at it.

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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> what kind radar this system use?


It is called "low blow", originated in the Soviet Union.

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## Silent Knight

MacanJawa said:


> what kind radar this system use?


SNR-125-2TM, and improved version of the baseline SNR-125.



Han Patriot said:


> Friend,
> 
> China also doesn't want to colonize you, we just want out territories back. What the point of having a 100mil third world people to feed and educate?


That's why I said we only defend our *sovereignty* and *national interests*. Mainland is part of the sovereignty, not all of it. Last time I checked, the first Chinese map that included the Spratly and Paracel (infamously known as the 9 dash line map) was made by Republic of China in mid 20th century, while Vietnamese government has sent fishermen and troops to Paracel since 17th century. Check the China map in early 20th century, your most southern territory was Hainan Island. But well, just call me a bias ultranationalist, who cares about history then.

And mind you, we could feed and educate ourselves just fine.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something to stop the wall of text and incoming flaming. I don't want to argue too much, I just want to have some civil discussion and have fun

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## Han Patriot

Carlosa said:


> The ships that they are putting out is no bs man, they are very real and the domestic aircraft carrier under construction is also very real (and way ahead of the chinese domestic carrier under construction). They just commissioned the first nuclear sub with nuclear ballistic missiles. Like it or not, they are tailing you and they are going to be a force to reckon with. Feel free to ignore it and live in your own virtual world if you wish, but reality doesn't change just because you don't want to look at it.



Do you know how long their ship had been under construction? Do you since when they started using their own 'indigenous' steel? Do you before 2014, all Indian warship were made from 'IMPORTED' steel? Compare with China those naval subsystems and see which is indigenous. They commissioned the nuclear sub? They haven't even sort out the problems with the sub. China had been building nuclear subs for the past 30-40 years on our own. How much of the sub is even indigenous. They don't even have a semicon fab for god's sake. Where are those chips in the subsystems made in? The AESA radar for example, you need a foundry from those chips, you get it?


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## MacanJawa

Silent Knight said:


> SNR-125-2TM, and improved version of the baseline SNR-125.
> 
> 
> That's why I said we only defend our *sovereignty* and *national interests*. Mainland is part of the sovereignty, not all of it. Last time I checked, the first Chinese map that included the Spratly and Paracel (infamously known as the 9 dash line map) was made by Republic of China in mid 20th century, while Vietnamese government has sent fishermen and troops to Paracel since 17th century. Check the China map in early 20th century, your most southern territory was Hainan Island. But well, just call me a bias ultranationalist, who cares about history then.
> 
> And mind you, we could feed and educate ourselves just fine.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Something to stop the wall of text and incoming flaming. I don't want to argue too much, I just want to have some civil discussion and have fun



what kind fun do you want? hehee


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## Silent Knight

MacanJawa said:


> what kind fun do you want? hehee


You can ask @Carlosa , he knew well


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## Carlosa

Han Patriot said:


> Do you know how long their ship had been under construction? Do you since when they started using their own 'indigenous' steel? Do you before 2014, all Indian warship were made from 'IMPORTED' steel? Compare with China those naval subsystems and see which is indigenous. They commissioned the nuclear sub? They haven't even sort out the problems with the sub. China had been building nuclear subs for the past 30-40 years on our own. How much of the sub is even indigenous. They don't even have a semicon fab for god's sake. Where are those chips in the subsystems made in? The AESA radar for example, you need a foundry from those chips, you get it?



I know about all of that very well, I follow closely what they do and until recently I also thought that it was just one more problem / delay after another, but they turned the corner, they finally got it together and now the ships are coming out. The nuclear sub is in sea trials and doing fine. The carrier under construction is almost finished. They are advancing very fast, not at the same rate in all fields, but they are advancing fast. I'm telling you again, they are tailing you and you better get used to that man.



Silent Knight said:


> You can ask @Carlosa , he knew well



@MacanJawa Just give SK a SU-27 to play with and he'll be your best friend....  Oh and don't forget a cute Indonesian girl........ and a few beers......

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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> I know about all of that very well, I follow closely what they do and until recently I also thought that it was just one more problem / delay after another, but they turned the corner, they finally got it together and now the ships are coming out. The nuclear sub is in sea trials and doing fine. The carrier under construction is almost finished. They are advancing very fast, not at the same rate in all fields, but they are advancing fast. I'm telling you again, they are tailing you and you better get used to that man.
> 
> 
> 
> @MacanJawa Just give SK a SU-27 to play with and he'll be your best friend....  Oh and don't forget a cute Indonesian girl........ and a few beers......


wkwkwkkwk SU 27 is outdated man lets buy new version SU 35

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## Silent Knight

I'm too old for that shit, give me a Su-30SM instead.


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## Carlosa

MacanJawa said:


> wkwkwkkwk SU 27 is outdated man lets buy new version SU 35



I guess he'll make a sacrifice and accept the SU-35, but make sure that it has 2 seats and the copilot is the Miss Indonesia, ok? 

Edit: O.k. then, SU-30 SM it will be.......


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## GS Zhou

Farhan Bohra said:


> You still unable to grasp the fact that, Vietnam got the backing of US, Japan, UK, France, Russia etc etc. If Israel able to spend 15% of GDP toward defence, then why not Vietnam?



I don't know where you get the figure of Israel spending 15% of its GDP on defense. But at least according to the database of SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute), Israel spends about 6% GDP on military. Given the huge gap between 6% vs. 15%, pls show us the proof of the 15% spending rate. Thanks!

BTW, even Iraq spends less than 10% of the GDP on military. So, a true friend to Vietnam will never advises Vietnam to spend 15% of its GDP on military.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> You seem to be a lazy guy as I notice you re-use the same texts. Haven't you noticed it? Try harder. I already read your post with nearly the same content elsewhere.


The gap between China and Vietnam in terms of military spending, GDP, and military vs. GDP rate, are unfortunately the core foundations for any discussion on China Military vs. Vietnam Military. I know you don't like the comparison in such way, but that's the hardcore truth that none of us could ignore. 



Viet said:


> Do you think we should pay more attention to education?


Yes. every country needs to spend more on education. No matter it is developed country like Germany or US, or developing country like Vietnam or China.



Viet said:


> By the way, within ASEAN we have the highest percentage of government spendings on health and education. What do you think why Vietnam always scores high in Pisa ranking? Why Vietnam health system doesn't need to hide before others in the region?



Congratulations to your achievement on health and education. Truly happy for our Vietnam friends!!

But please keep in mind that, the reason for Vietnam to make progress on education or health is because of your government's consecutive spending on the two areas. Your government puts the military spending on an appropriate rate (2.3% to GDP), so it could get the money to spend on other more important areas, i.e. education, or health.

But if one day the budget on education/health cut significantly for more military resources (you even want your government to spend all its tax revenue on military!!), do you still think the health/education system of Vietnam could operate smoothly?? Yes yes, you live in Germany, so a deterioration on education/health in Vietnam will NOT influence you at all.



Viet said:


> I am thinking Vietnam should acquire strategic weapon. Israel has nuclear weapons for her own survival as the Arab states threaten her with total annihilation. China as evidenced here as many Chinese posters threaten us with annihilation of the Viet race.



Firstly, I never mentioned anything about nuke Vietnam. In fact, I said on PDF multiple times that PLA's nuclear weapons are not developed for our neighbors. I don't think I should be blamed for the words that I've never said. So pls don't be anger towards me about this.

Secondly, I personally don't care much that you now put a new toy: nuclear weapons, to the shopping list of Vietnam. Let me count the shopping plans you've made for Vietnam on this thread: better and more submarines; better/more/larger ships with more/better missiles; radars for different ranges/heights; air defense missiles for different ranges/heights; better and more fighters; better and more tanks; better and more canons... Now you just add one more thing to the long list. That's nothing surprise to me. But I'm just very curious to know, how can the 5bn defense budget to support all your great plans??


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> nice, can be mounted on vehicle?


I think yes Not a problem at all

Look at this. S-125 missiles normally fixed on a ground, but it can be installed on a truck.


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## Jlaw

Han Patriot said:


> Do you know how long their ship had been under construction? Do you since when they started using their own 'indigenous' steel? Do you before 2014, all Indian warship were made from 'IMPORTED' steel? Compare with China those naval subsystems and see which is indigenous. They commissioned the nuclear sub? They haven't even sort out the problems with the sub. China had been building nuclear subs for the past 30-40 years on our own. How much of the sub is even indigenous. They don't even have a semicon fab for god's sake. Where are those chips in the subsystems made in? The AESA radar for example, you need a foundry from those chips, you get it?



bro, no need to lecture the Vietnamese or Indians. Just let them be.
醒来傻人是不可取的


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## pr1v4t33r

GS Zhou said:


> BTW, even Iraq spends less than 10% of the GDP on military. So, a true friend to Vietnam will never advises Vietnam to spend 15% of its GDP on military.



They simply can't. Vietnam government budget is only around $36 Billion a year, that's 18% of their GDP. So spending 15% of GDP only for defense is out of reach.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I guess he'll make a sacrifice and accept the SU-35, but make sure that it has 2 seats and the copilot is the Miss Indonesia, ok?
> 
> Edit: O.k. then, SU-30 SM it will be.......


I believe su-35 is a single seater, isn't?
And sis mardo rather prefers men in a main battle tank


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I believe su-35 is a single seater, isn't?
> And sis mardo rather prefers men in a main battle tank



I'm sure there has to be a trainer version that has 2 seats.

Who is talking about sis mado? I said a cute Indonesian girl and that also means someone nice, so right there she is out.........


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I'm sure there has to be a trainer version that has 2 seats.
> 
> Who is talking about sis mado? I said a cute Indonesian girl and that also means someone nice, so right there she is out.........


Autsch...


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## Carlosa

*How Vietnamese marines are trained*

http://tuoitrenews.vn/politics/35997/how-vietnamese-marines-are-trained

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 07/22/2016 






*Tasked with protecting and reclaiming Vietnam’s islands in the event of foreign invasion, Vietnam’s marines train in extreme conditions, pushing themselves far beyond their limit.*

The Vietnamese marine force is one of the country’s most elite military units, mastering both sea and land combat in preparation for the defense of Vietnam’s maritime sovereignty.

“A marine is responsible for mastering many skills. The competent operation of a wide range of weapons and equipment, swimming in force 6 winds, understanding weather conditions at sea, and developing top-tier stamina are just a few of our requirements,” said Lieutenant Colonel Duong Chi Nguyen, political commissar of Vietnam’s marine battalion 863.

*‘Cool’ and ‘dope’*

Returning from nearly 20 days of training after traveling over 60 kilometers while carrying almost 40 kilograms of weapons and ammunition, Sergeant Nguyen Van Bich, 24, still managed to keep a broad smile on his face while talking about his life as a marine.

“It’s definitely strenuous, but there’s a feeling of great pride and confidence that follows, like you’ve just conquered the impossible,” Bich said happily.

After carrying marine-exclusive riffles, bulletproof vests, combat helmets, and other military equipment for the first time, the Gen-Y soldier described the marine look as “cool” and “dope.”

Bich earned a bachelor’s degree from the Ho Chi Minh City University of Technology (HUTECH), but decided to follow his dream of becoming a soldier, enlisting himself in the Vietnamese army upon graduation.

After two months of rookie training, Bich volunteered for the army’s marine force, where he received additional six-month intensive training before being officially sworn into the unit.

*Where strength is measured by willpower*

The faint hearted have no place in Vietnam’s marine force. Soldiers are put on strict training schedules that focus on pushing the limits of human endurance.

Three kilometers is the minimum distance rookies are expected to be able to swim non-stop, though many soldiers start from zero as they never learnt to swim before joining the army.

Weak swimmers, such as Sergeant Huynh Mai Bao Duong, 25, take extra swimming sessions with his senior to catch up with the rest.

“I practice day and night, even during breaks and Sundays, for I don’t want to be the only one holding the whole team back,” Duong said.

The sergeant said that swimming in formation at sea is extremely difficult but necessary to maintain tactical spacing from other soldiers while battling big waves and strong winds.

The Vietnamese marines’ training grounds are the sea and the vast sand dunes under the scorching sun.

“In this hot weather, merely sitting under the sun on the sand dunes for a day is beyond endurance,” Lieutenant Colonel Duong Chi Nguyen said.

Nguyen said the condition is even worse at sea, when the searing sensation is intensified in salt water.

“Many soldiers have their skins peeled off in large patches and darkened to the tone of their facial hair after returning from long amphibious drills,” Nguyen added.

Temperatures on the training grounds can reach up to 41 degrees Celsius, according to the lieutenant colonel, during which time training starts half an hour earlier than normal.

Many rookies, unfamiliar with the intensity of the training, have passed out during long-distance marches, or simply from sitting in tactical training sessions under the sun.

During such times, a medical vehicle is always ready to respond and care for the soldiers, according to the lieutenant colonel.

“That being said, after five to six months of training, the marines can march for 15 to 20 kilometers non-stop on the worst day,” Nguyen said.

With such intensive training, mere health and strength are not enough to keep soldiers in the game.

“What matters is the will to overcome yourself,” said Senior Lieutenant Nguyen Van Duong, commander of the battalion’s firepower company.

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## Viet

pr1v4t33r said:


> They simply can't. Vietnam government budget is only around $36 Billion a year, that's 18% of their GDP. So spending 15% of GDP only for defense is out of reach.


For 2016 a bit more than $57 billions for the central government. Spendings of local governments aren't included in the figure.


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## vtnsx

Carlosa said:


> Yes, typical Pakistani-chinese controlled forum. I think we should make our own forum, in English, but our own and open to everybody; anybody that comes to troll, BANNED! I have some plans for that, we can put a team together and do it, why not? What do you think?
> 
> What do you say @Viet @Silent Knight @vtnsx @Aqsuperman etc, are you in?



Sure, I've built my own website before using Wordpress. I'm sure we all can collaborate.



BoQ77 said:


> because you have more enemies than us.



 That is clever

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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> I'm sure there has to be a trainer version that has 2 seats.
> 
> Who is talking about sis mado? I said a cute Indonesian girl and that also means someone nice, so right there she is out.........





Viet said:


> Autsch...



LMAO

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## vtnsx

BoQ77 said:


> I think Vietnam need only one thing.
> Changing the top leaders. In 10 years.
> New Vietnam is much better and stronger



I'm glad someone agreed with me on that note.



Silent Knight said:


> Friends, let me remind you that Vietnam doesn't want to take part in a new arms race. We simply want to defend our sovereignty and national interests. We don't invade anyone, so the current spending on national defense is acceptable.
> 
> Fact is, we don't hope to defeat China or any potential enemies. We only build up our forces to make them think twice before doing something incredibly stupid, make them think about things that they'd lose before gaining anything.
> 
> Remember the War against the US a.k.a Vietnam War? We didn't defeat the entire US Armed Forces, we drove them out of our sovereignty and unified the country. Same thing would happen if China or anyone else tries to invade Vietnam. So yeah, 5 billion $ per year is enough, no need to spend like Japan or South Korea.



This is what I called "internalizing the country" meaning VN needs to build its foundation from within. This includes modernizing Education in Trades, Engineering and Science, more bottom line industries such as mining, foundries, steel mills, etc, modernizing manufacturing processes and equipment such as CNC machining, 3D metal printing, mold injections, Subractive and additive machining, automation and robotics manufacturing, modernizing farming equipment, modernizing construction equipment, improving work safety and regulation, modernizing medical facilities and equipment, promoting and encouraging Science and Engineering by paying them more (In the end, they are your best defense and offense).

I could say more but these are just some of the highlights to build a strong nation.



cnleio said:


> I like the wise, whatever he(she) is Vietnamese or Chinese .... said well ! But money still is importance to improve ur strength, when ur country not the rich ur best weapon is ur wisdom. If u can learn something from China past time (PRC not born as world N.o2 economy), u also will find ur way. Vietnam is small, a war easily burning everything that's the problem for all small nations ... but some get rich, absolutely not depend on war or arms race the rich come from ppl's wisdom.
> 
> My word, is small nation need more wisdom & patience than the bigger one.



You are absolutely right. China deserve its position today. Your leadership did recognize this long ago and has been long waiting for the opportunity to rise in power to counter US's aggression. Patience does pay you off, however, what your leaders are doing is exactly the same as Uncle Sam. People will hate you and they will rise to counter China's action/aggression. Vietnam overlooked China and trusted China way too much and became too comfortable with China. That is not China's fault but it is VN's fault for relying so heavily with China and didn't need to modernize the country.

VN leadership is like a guy going to his friend's house and drink his face off everyday like the Native American. He ignored all the responsibilities and just want to drink and party his faces off until the friend got sick and tired of his behaviors and decided to kick him in the face and told him his life is a piece of 5h1t.



Carlosa said:


> The ships that they are putting out is no bs man, they are very real and the domestic aircraft carrier under construction is also very real (and way ahead of the chinese domestic carrier under construction). They just commissioned the first nuclear sub with nuclear ballistic missiles. Like it or not, they are tailing you and they are going to be a force to reckon with. Feel free to ignore it and live in your own virtual world if you wish, but reality doesn't change just because you don't want to look at it.



That is the problem with Chinese civilization. They worship virtual reality. Virtual Reality is their god. I give you one best example, they believe in Dragons and we all know Dragons don't exist. They also believe they can fly on trees, walk on water and break granite with their heads. This is China's culture. Nothing wrong with it, but when you believe you can fly on trees and walk on water, I think they have crossed that line.



Han Patriot said:


> Do you know how long their ship had been under construction? Do you since when they started using their own 'indigenous' steel? Do you before 2014, all Indian warship were made from 'IMPORTED' steel? Compare with China those naval subsystems and see which is indigenous. They commissioned the nuclear sub? They haven't even sort out the problems with the sub. China had been building nuclear subs for the past 30-40 years on our own. How much of the sub is even indigenous. They don't even have a semicon fab for god's sake. Where are those chips in the subsystems made in? The AESA radar for example, you need a foundry from those chips, you get it?



For your information, Chinese steel are 5h1t in the Western world. How do I know this? because I used to work for an oil company here. We prefer India steel because they actually follow the American standards, unlike the Chinese. I wont give you the details why your steel sucks because you know it better than anyone in the world.



Jlaw said:


> bro, no need to lecture the Vietnamese or Indians. Just let them be.
> Wake up stupid people is not desirable



I don't think we need your stupid incompetent advice. China has got nothing on US/Russia's tech. You will never master the art of Science and Engineering when you can only copy and steal technologies from USA. China is known to be a thief, is so sad for a country with over 9 trillion in GDP and stealing from people. hahhah pathetic. Do NGU

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## Viet

Sooner than expected. Z111 rifle factory for Galil 31 and 32, will soon replace all Ak-47s for the fighting troops.

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## Viet

a modern army needs a modern rifle: Galil 31 with compact short barrel, caliber 7,62x39mm.








Galil 32 with long barrel, same caliber as Galil 31









Two new patrol boats for the Coast Guard
TT400 class, manufactured by Hong Ha shipyard. New: 23mm cannon

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## BoQ77

Patrol and rescue fast craft for border guard: the 5th delivered















Landing craft for platoon-scale unit

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> I'm sure there has to be a trainer version that has 2 seats.


The trainer version for Su-35S is Su-30M2, an upgraded and domestic version of the Su-30MK2.

But what the hell, give me 2 regiments of Su-30SMV and I'll be fine.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> The trainer version for Su-35S is Su-30M2, an upgraded and domestic version of the Su-30MK2.
> 
> But what the hell, give me 2 regiments of Su-30SMV and I'll be fine.



Consider it done man and the cute Indonesian girl will be on the side for the sake of ASEAN multilateral cooperation and interchange............ Oh and the beers of course for getting into the right mood and frame of mind for multilateral engagement..... Can you handle that?


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## dingyibvs

Carlosa said:


> China used to be in the same situation in the past. Vietnam will get there, it will take some time, but it will get there. India is already self sufficient when it comes to surface ships and it will soon be in submarines also, including nuclear subs. They will need some help with aircraft carriers, but only for very sophisticated stuff like the electromagnetic catapults. They can afford to buy the best while China for example is using domestic jet engines that are extremely unreliable and get pilots killed. I prefer the Indian approach.



The Indians may get there, Vietnam won't. Just not enough people, not enough revenue for a comparable defense budget. I mean, not even Japan or South Korea can build entirely indigenous warships or planes.


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## Han Patriot

Carlosa said:


> I know about all of that very well, I follow closely what they do and until recently I also thought that it was just one more problem / delay after another, but they turned the corner, they finally got it together and now the ships are coming out. The nuclear sub is in sea trials and doing fine. The carrier under construction is almost finished. They are advancing very fast, not at the same rate in all fields, but they are advancing fast. I'm telling you again, they are tailing you and you better get used to that man.
> 
> 
> 
> @MacanJawa Just give SK a SU-27 to play with and he'll be your best friend....  Oh and don't forget a cute Indonesian girl........ and a few beers......


First you say the sub is commissioned, then now you say on trials. Let me tell you this, the Indians are famous for trials lasting decades. This is not some warship where you just buy some steel weld it into a hull and then 'system engineer' it with pieces of different origin equipment into a franken ship. Nuclear submarines are complex, they can't even make a decent conventional sub, always trying to run without learning how to crawl, they need to master the basics properly.

Advance as in buying foreign weapons? Or doing screwdriver and sticker tech engineering?
Ask your them where the steel for the 'indigenous' submarines come from?


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## Carlosa

dingyibvs said:


> The Indians may get there, Vietnam won't. Just not enough people, not enough revenue for a comparable defense budget. I mean, not even Japan or South Korea can build entirely indigenous warships or planes.



Vietnam will get where they need to get which is not the same as for India or China, but will be good enough for them.



Han Patriot said:


> First you say the sub is commissioned, then now you say on trials. Let me tell you this, the Indians are famous for trials lasting decades. This is not some warship where you just buy some steel weld it into a hull and then 'system engineer' it with pieces of different origin equipment into a fransken ship. Nuclear submarines are complex, they can't even make a decent conventional sub, always trying to run without learning how to crawl, they need to master the basics properly.
> 
> Advance as in buying foreign weapons? Or doing screwdriver and sticker tech engineering?
> Ask your them where the steel for the 'indigenous' submarines come from?



I knew that it was on sea trials and I recently saw a headline wondering if it was already commissioned,

Feel free to ignore what they are achieving, but at least they don't steal the tech by cyber hacking as china does all the time.

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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> For your information, Chinese steel are 5h1t in the Western world. How do I know this? because I used to work for an oil company here. We prefer India steel because they actually follow the American standards, unlike the Chinese. I wont give you the details why your steel sucks because you know it better than anyone in the world.


I think you need to understand this, 'pay peanuts get monkey'. China can produce the best steel and the shittiest steel, it depends on your budget. Do you know we even export LP turbine blades to Japan? Everybody wants a cheaper option. I have seen shitty Indian steel and shitty Chinese steel, the Indians like to claim they adhere to whatever standards, but it's bullshit. It all comes down to the price, you pay more, you get better quality.Ask them where BHEL buy their blades from, ask them where their supercritical boiler alloy tubes come from. Wake up!




vtnsx said:


> I don't think we need your stupid incompetent advice. China has got nothing on US/Russia's tech. You will never master the art of Science and Engineering when you can only copy and steal technologies from USA. China is known to be a thief, is so sad for a country with over 9 trillion in GDP and stealing from people. hahhah pathetic. Do NGU


Deep down in your heart, you know the truth. We steal, copy, beg, borrow, reverse, absorb, develop, innovate, we will do whatever it takes and that's why we accomplished so much. And now we reach a stage, where Russian tech had been sucked dry by us. Nothing left to absorb, that's why you see more and more Chinese innovations.



vtnsx said:


> I'm glad someone agreed with me on that note.
> 
> That is the problem with Chinese civilization. They worship virtual reality. Virtual Reality is their god. I give you one best example, they believe in Dragons and we all know Dragons don't exist. They also believe they can fly on trees, walk on water and break granite with their heads. This is China's culture. Nothing wrong with it, but when you believe you can fly on trees and walk on water, I think they have crossed that line.



Last I heard, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, and even Vietnam uses the Dragon as a symbol. Come on man, those are cultural symbols, much like unicorns and goblins. Indians believe in a elephant head chimera. Dragons are a part of our culture.

You watch too much kungfu movies, Harry Potter can talk to snakes too. I think you are the one who can't differentiate fantasy and reality. LOL..


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## dingyibvs

Carlosa said:


> Vietnam will get where they need to get which is not the same as for India or China, but will be good enough for them.



I agree, my statement is in many ways actually a rebuke to the post you replied to. I don't believe that it's in Vietnam's strategic interest to indigenize warship building. It might be in Vietnam's economic interest to learn how to build civilian ships, and much of that skill can be applied to building components for warships, but being able to build fully indigenous expensive platforms such as advanced warships and planes shouldn't be on Vietnam's agenda.

On the other hand, with the proper population resources, it should be India's primary objective to indigenize, well, basically everything especially given the relatively benign security environment it's in right now.


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## Carlosa

dingyibvs said:


> I agree, my statement is in many ways actually a rebuke to the post you replied to. I don't believe that it's in Vietnam's strategic interest to indigenize warship building. It might be in Vietnam's economic interest to learn how to build civilian ships, and much of that skill can be applied to building components for warships, but being able to build fully indigenous expensive platforms such as advanced warships and planes shouldn't be on Vietnam's agenda.
> 
> On the other hand, with the proper population resources, it should be India's primary objective to indigenize, well, basically everything especially given the relatively benign security environment it's in right now.



I think it does make sense for Vietnam to do domestic warships, but of course it will be up to a particular point, I'd say up to frigate size eventually and to try to do some of the components as much as possible. They can do things quite cheap and they need to do quite a few ships, so I think the economies of scale are there. Of course most of the sensors and weapon systems will be imported. Their naval program has suffered a lot with many delays and setbacks precisely because of depending on others (Russia). Just looking at the examples of Indonesia and Myanmar, that shows that is very feasible.

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## Viet

Special hospital for the men of Vietnam submarine fleet

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## Han Patriot

Carlosa said:


> Vietnam will get where they need to get which is not the same as for India or China, but will be good enough for them.
> 
> 
> 
> I knew that it was on sea trials and I recently saw a headline wondering if it was already commissioned,
> 
> Feel free to ignore what they are achieving, but at least they don't steal the tech by cyber hacking as china does all the time.


How many times I have to repeat this, China will do anything to succeed, the Indians pay billions and expect people to spoonfeed them in TOT deals. When they can't absorb it, they complain. By begging, stealing, borrowing, copying, absorbing then innovating, we save BILLIONS, we also create an industrial cluster.


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## Joe Shearer

Han Patriot said:


> How many times I have to repeat this, China will do anything to succeed, the Indians pay billions and expect people to spoonfeed them in TOT deals. When they can't absorb it, they complain. By begging, stealing, borrowing, copying, absorbing then innovating, we save BILLIONS, we also create an industrial cluster.



We got the message.

Now do us all a favour. Save yourself the enormous trouble evangelising the Chinese way of intellectual progress. Put a sock in it. Please. Or post in Chinese. That will also help.

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## Viet

Training with recruits. And with a cute toy:

guided anti tank rocket 9k11, max range 3,000 meters, capable to pierce tank armor of 200 mm in 60 degree shape, 2.6 kg high explosive warhead


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## Han Patriot

Joe Shearer said:


> We got the message.
> 
> Now do us all a favour. Save yourself the enormous trouble evangelising the Chinese way of intellectual progress. Put a sock in it. Please. Or post in Chinese. That will also help.


OOO, it seems I stepped on someones tail. Just can't face reality right when I take away all that India Shining Shit?


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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> I think you need to understand this, 'pay peanuts get monkey'. China can produce the best steel and the shittiest steel, it depends on your budget. Do you know we even export LP turbine blades to Japan? Everybody wants a cheaper option. I have seen shitty Indian steel and shitty Chinese steel, the Indians like to claim they adhere to whatever standards, but it's bullshit. It all comes down to the price, you pay more, you get better quality.Ask them where BHEL buy their blades from, ask them where their supercritical boiler alloy tubes come from. Wake up!
> 
> 
> 
> Deep down in your heart, you know the truth. We steal, copy, beg, borrow, reverse, absorb, develop, innovate, we will do whatever it takes and that's why we accomplished so much. And now we reach a stage, where Russian tech had been sucked dry by us. Nothing left to absorb, that's why you see more and more Chinese innovations.
> 
> 
> 
> Last I heard, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, and even Vietnam uses the Dragon as a symbol. Come on man, those are cultural symbols, much like unicorns and goblins. Indians believe in a elephant head chimera. Dragons are a part of our culture.
> 
> You watch too much kungfu movies, Harry Potter can talk to snakes too. I think you are the one who can't differentiate fantasy and reality. LOL..



God, you are stupid. Do you even know how steel works? Lol. You are a child

Please dont lecure me about your country movies. Its all but fairy tales and fantasy. Just like your head. Why are you so stupid? Lol


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> God, you are stupid. Do you even know how steel works? Lol. You are a child


Great, when you can't answer, you call people a child, how childish is tht? I design and buy valves for a living, and you want to teach me about steel.


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## initial_d_mk2

Viet said:


> Training with recruits. And with a cute toy:
> 
> guided anti tank rocket 9k11, max range 3,000 meters, capable to pierce tank armor of 200 mm in 60 degree shape, 2.6 kg high explosive warhead


i have to admit, you vietnamese know how to maintain old relics, do vietnam army still use the missile in large quantity?

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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> Great, when you can't answer, you call people a child, how childish is tht?



Lol, I'm waiting for your answer. I thought you were really smart? How does china make better steel?

Lol, you buy and design valves for a living. Just past high school? You still cant tell me why your chinese steel sucks. Lol

What is the most critical part on a valve?

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## initial_d_mk2

vtnsx said:


> Lol, I'm waiting for your answer. I thought you were really smart? How does china make better steel?


errr i know i know....the chinese add scrap metal from arround the world, thus make it international standard wkwkwk.......

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## Joe Shearer

Han Patriot said:


> OOO, it seems I stepped on someones tail. Just can't face reality right when I take away all that India Shining Shit?



Whatever makes you happy. Just shut up. These crude, posturing posts are really irritating.


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## vtnsx

initial_d_mk2 said:


> errr i know i know....the chinese add scrap metal from arround the world, thus make it international standard wkwkwk.......



Haha the chinese kid think he is better than us. Hahahah too funny


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## Viet

initial_d_mk2 said:


> i have to admit, you vietnamese know how to maintain old relics, do vietnam army still use the missile in large quantity?


That info is classified man. I think we have enough in store to stop at least two or three enemy light tank divisions. Our neighbor is big China, hence we always need big quantity.



Joe Shearer said:


> We got the message.
> 
> Now do us all a favour. Save yourself the enormous trouble evangelising the Chinese way of intellectual progress. Put a sock in it. Please. Or post in Chinese. That will also help.


Lol That is a good post. A good start into the day


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Lol, I'm waiting for your answer. I thought you were really smart? How does china make better steel?
> 
> Lol, you buy and design valves for a living. Just past high school? You still cant tell me why your chinese steel sucks. Lol
> 
> What is the most critical part on a valve?


I just told you pricing determines the quality, and yet you still don't get it. I design valves specification and then I outsource the production to China or whatever country, that's why I know about steel. Frankly most good valve vendors/steel suppliers in China conform to ASTM/ASME codes. You just need to pay more.

Do you know why India need to import so many supercritical boilers from China? The key weakness was the inability to produce high temperature superalloy tubes used in those boilers

And the same technology is applied to nuclear submarines/aircraft carriers, you still need a boiler to produce steam from nuclear heat. The whole civilian industrial cluster is part of the Military Industrial Complex, you can't separate them, this had been the Chinese approach since Deng.


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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> I just told you pricing determines the quality, and yet you still don't get it. I design valves specification and then I outsource the production to China or whatever country, that's why I know about steel. Frankly most good valve vendors/steel suppliers in China conform to ASTM/ASME codes. You just need to pay more.
> 
> Do you know why India need to import so many supercritical boilers from China? The key weakness was the inability to produce high temperature superalloy tubes used in those boilers.



Haha you are telling me that the biggest valve company can't get the highest quality of steel quality from china? Chinese valves are not high quality. I know it for a fact.

The design is limited to china. China doesn't know everything about ASTM/ASME. If you are in the valve business, you should know that price isn't an issue with big oil companies. You are naive.

There are many types of super alloys. Super duplex, 410 ss, inconel, etc. What does china have?


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## Carlosa

initial_d_mk2 said:


> i have to admit, you vietnamese know how to maintain old relics, do vietnam army still use the missile in large quantity?



Here is a video of a naval exercise just done 1 or 2 weeks ago. The ships are the Osa missile boat and the TT-400TP gun boat. I was very surprise as to how good the Osa boats looks, the metal in the superstructure looks like brand new (the second half of the video). Amazing, these boats are decades old.






@Silent Knight Is it worth it to upgrade the Osa boats? They look really good.

They can be turned into this:











Han Patriot said:


> How many times I have to repeat this, China will do anything to succeed, the Indians pay billions and expect people to spoonfeed them in TOT deals. When they can't absorb it, they complain. By begging, stealing, borrowing, copying, absorbing then innovating, we save BILLIONS, we also create an industrial cluster.



How many times we have to tell you that we don't care for the chinese way of doing things? We understand that sometimes thieves are proud of being thieves as in your case, but that doesn't mean that others support your thieving ways or that they wish to lower themselves to your kind. Makes us a favor and go, you are disrupting the thread.

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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Haha you are telling me that the biggest valve company can't get the highest quality of steel quality from china? Chinese valves are not high quality. I know it for a fact.
> 
> The design is limited to china. China doesn't know everything about ASTM/ASME. If you are in the valve business, you should know that price isn't an issue with big oil companies. You are naive.


Any company can get the highest quality steel from China, they just have to pay more. I repeated to you many times, you can get good or bad valves, it's the price. It seems your understanding power is quite limited.

We are not the biggest valve company but I can tell your for a fact the FISHER valves used in the oil and gas industry is made in China, common CS ASTM grade steel. For Duplex steel, Shell approves us to use steel from a few Chinese foundries. And yes cost plays the most important part in Technical Bid Evaluations once the standards are conformed. We supply to OIL companies too, and now with the oil plunge, we are seeing even more demand for Chinese steel.

You don't know all these? I reckon you must be some teenager armchair warrior?


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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> We are not the biggest valve company but I can tell your for a fact the FISHER valves used in the oil and gas industry is made in China, common CS ASTM grade steel. For Duplex steel, Shell approves us to use steel from a few Chinese foundries. And yes cost plays the most important part in Technical Bid Evaluations once the standards are conformed. We supply to OIL companies too, and now with the oil plunge, we are seeing even more demand for Chinese steel.
> 
> You don't know all these? I reckon you must be some teenager armchair warrior?



Then you haven't gone to severe services. You are a valve rookie. Haha who the hell hired you? They should get rid of you already. You are so incompetent.

Lmao carbon steel is common. Cost is not the most important you dumbass. LOL


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Then you haven't gone to severe services. You are a valve rookie. Haha who the hell hired you? They should get rid of you already. You are so incompetent.
> 
> Lmao carbon steel is common. Cost is not the most important you dumbass. LOL


I told you, after conforming to standards, cost is the most important. Carbon steel is common, but you still need to conform to standards for oil and gas companies.

I just gave you a spectrum of steel from CS to Duplex, all made in China.


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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> I told you, after conforming to standards, cost is the most important. Carbon steel is common, but you still need to conform to standards for oil and gas companies.



And you think Indian's steel is not? Hahaha
Of course, oil companies still need to conform to laws and regulations. Cost is not the most important. It is important but not the most important. Man you dont get it. Oh right, you are chinese.

Lol, you barely gave me a spectrum of steel grades. Again, you know nothing of steel grades.


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> And you think Indian's steel is not? Hahaha
> Of course, oil companies still need to conform to laws and regulations. Cost is not the most important. It is important but not the most important. Man you dont get it. Oh right, you are chinese.


I already repeated myself many times, if you have three bids, all conforming to the same standards, next will be cost. Understand? I stated previously, India and China both can produce shitty steel, but certain grade of steel India cannot produce. 

Example, warship grade steel until 2014, India needed to import those steel. High temperature super alloys, which I mentioned earlier.


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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> I already repeated myself many times, if you have three bids, all conforming to the same standards, next will be cost. Understand? I stated previously, India and China both can produce shitty steel, but certain grade of steel India cannot produce.



Lmao! Cost? Hahahahahhaha
You truly are naive. So you would hire a sub standard subcontractor to do the work for you for a cheap price? Hahah do you even know how to select the right bidder?
How do you know India can't produce high grades steel? Lol. Don't tell me because your company said so.


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Lmao! Cost? Hahahahahhaha
> You truly are naive. So you would hire a sub standard subcontractor to do the work for you for a cheap price? Hahah do you even know how to select the right bidder?
> How do you know India can't produce high grades steel? Lol. Don't tell me because your company said so.


I again repeat this a third time, if the manufacturers conforms to standards, and there are many who conform to standards in China, and many who don't, next criteria will be PRICE.

Go do some research on Indian superalloy then start talking.


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## Carlosa

To inspire our day:

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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> I again repeat this a third time, if the manufacturers conforms to standards, and there are many who conform to standards in China, and many who don't, next criteria will be PRICE.



Lol, that is a rookie way to think of a bid. Price is an issue but not always. You don't get how bids work.


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Then you haven't gone to severe services. You are a valve rookie. Haha who the hell hired you? They should get rid of you already. You are so incompetent.
> 
> Lmao carbon steel is common. Cost is not the most important you dumbass. LOL


I know CCI actually buy Chinese SS forgings from China.



vtnsx said:


> Lol, that is a rookie way to think of a bid. Price is an issue but not always. You don't get how bids work.


I use to work for Technip before moving to a valve company, I EVALUATE BIDS!


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> @Silent Knight Is it worth it to upgrade the Osa boats? They look really good.


Nope, most likely to be transfered to Vietnam Coast Guard in the upcoming years.

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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> I know CCI actually buy Chinese SS forgings from China.
> 
> 
> I use to work for Technip before moving to a valve company, I EVALUATE BIDS!



I already know that non critical parts can be bought from chinese manufacturers and anywhere else. But china is cheaper.

Evaluating bids and understand and negotiating a bid is completely different.

And for your information, not all of us know nothing. Some of us know better than you.


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## Viet

@Silent Knight may I ask the navyman when we will begin to build the first aegis like destroyer?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> @Silent Knight may I ask the navyman when we will begin to build the first aegis like destroyer?


Aegis-like destroyer? Not a chance in the next 30 years.
Air defense frigate with 100+ km range missiles? Maybe 10-15 years, who knows then 

Btw I'm with the Air Force, Navy is a bit further.


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> I already know that non critical parts can be bought from chinese manufacturers and anywhere else. But china is cheaper.
> 
> Evaluating bids and understand and negotiating a bid is completely different.
> 
> And for your information, not all of us know nothing. Some of us know better than you.


Non critical parts? As in the material for the whole body is non-critical? Are you really an engineer? Evaluating bids are done by technical engineers to check if the technicalities are correct, negotiating is done by procurement. If the technicalities are correct, normally the procurement committee will look at the cost, after which the vendor is selected and negotiation starts. Why are we going into bids and procurement, you are going out of topic, I was just proving to you Chinese material is used widely, it's just you don't realize it. A new resin developed by my company is made in China, we claim it's European for marketing purposes.


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## vtnsx

@Carlosa
For your entertainment








Han Patriot said:


> Non critical parts? As in the material for the whole body is non-critical? Are you really an engineer? Evaluating bids are done by technical engineers to check if the technicalities are correct, negotiating is done by procurement. If the technicalities are correct, normally the procurement committee will look at the cost, after which the vendor is selected and negotiation starts. Why are we going into bids and procurement, you are going out of topic, I was just proving to you Chinese material is used widely, it's just you don't realize it. A new resin developed by my company is made in China, we claim it's European for marketing purposes.



I am and I did all of the above. And I just told you, Chinese steel aren't the best quality. And China is not European. I know about Germany Engineering as well. And they would laugh at you.

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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> @Carlosa
> For your entertainment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am and I did all of the above. And I just told you, Chinese steel aren't the best quality. And China is not European. I know about Germany Engineering as well. And they would laugh at you.


I think you might be some junior engineer? How do you define quality? If the material conforms to a certain set of standards and pass the test required, it is having a certain quality. I can tell you the best quality steel comparable to European steel can be found in China, it's a matter of whether you are willing to pay. There is nothing complex in making CS, SS, or Duplex steel.


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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> I think you might be some junior engineer? How do you define quality? If the material conforms to a certain set of standards and pass the test required, it is having a certain quality. I can tell you the best quality steel comparable to European steel can be found in China, it's a matter of whether you are willing to pay. There is nothing complex in making CS, SS, or Duplex steel.



Lol, I'm at a level more than a senior chinese engineer and I am independant. Unlike you. You are so naive. You think only of price. I already told you. Your chinese steel doesn't meet American standards. Why are you so slow to get it? Just stop manupulating people into buying your garbage product. Sure, you are right. Making steel shouldn't be that hard, but it is hard for the Chinese.

Go tell your Chinese manufacture why they can't make good steel instead of talking to me. You are slow to get it.

Oh I get, you are too Patriot to the Han. That is why you will never get it.


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Lol, I'm at a level more than a senior chinese engineer and I am independant. Unlike you. You are so naive. You think only of price. I already told you. Your chinese steel doesn't meet American standards. Why are you so slow to get it? Just stop manupulating people into buying your garbage product. Sure, you are right. Making steel shouldn't be that hard, but it is hard for the Chinese.
> 
> Go tell your Chinese manufacture why they can't make good steel instead of talking to me. You are slow to get it.


A level higher than Seniors are Principals, and most are in their 50s, so you telling me you are a 50 year old listening to techno songs?

Right...and pigs can fly. ASME/ASTM are AMERICAN standards, if Chinese steel conform to those standards witnessed by 3rd party inspection companies, what do you not understand? We had been exporting steel products to US for decades.

Yah, if we can make submarine grade steel, space alloys, and even export titanium sponges to INDIA for their 'indigenous' space program, we can't make CS, SS, Duplex steel?


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## vtnsx

Han Patriot said:


> A level higher than Seniors are Principals, and most are in their 50s, so you telling me you are a 50 year old listening to techno songs?
> 
> Right...and pigs can fly. ASME/ASTM are AMERICAN standards, if Chinese steel conform to those standards witnessed by 3rd party inspection companies, what do you not understand? We had been exporting steel products to US for decades.
> 
> Yah, if we can make submarine grade steel, space alloys, and even export titanium sponges to INDIA for their 'indigenous' space program, we can't make CS, SS, Duplex steel?



Pigs can fly? really? wow you Chinese are so real and smart. You guys lose touch to reality so quickly. Do you even know what is ASME and ASTM?

By the way, you Chinese Engineers can't build anything right. I have to fix it all and make it right. Your senior Engineers are useless and brainless. Without me, they are nothing. You guys watch too much Chinese fantasy novels and fairy tails, you forgot reality. Your best engineers are affected by it. LOL, it's a reality you need to address.

Space alloys? what is that? Space mix with carbon steel? hahaha. Only is made in China, eh?
Yes you have been exporting steel to US and they have to rework your steel to meet the American standard. You probably don't know that because you're so full of 5h1t and too patriotic to your own kind to care.

You should ask India why they purchase Titanium from you. Everything made from China are low quality and you know it.

You should thank Singapore for giving you the opportunity to work with their companies and gain their knowledge and for you to be able to talk with me. You ungrateful pos.


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## dingyibvs

Vtsnx, if you're so senior, why don't you back up your assertion with facts? What makes American steel superior to Chinese steel that conforms to the same standards?


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## vtnsx

dingyibvs said:


> Vtsnx, if you're so senior, why don't you back up your assertion with facts? What makes American steel superior to Chinese steel that conforms to the same standards?



Come work with me and I'll show you how we select steel. Otherwise, stfu and get out of this thread. I was talking to the other dude, why are you interfering? Does it pisses you off because I'm better than you and you are not? haha typical Chinese. You guys don't look at facts, you look at fantasy. Hhaha who needs to prove anything to you.

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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Come work with me and I'll show you how we select steel. Otherwise, stfu and get out of this thread. I was talking to the other dude, why are you interfering? Does it pisses you off because I'm better than you and you are not? haha typical Chinese. You guys don't look at facts, you look at fantasy. Hhaha who needs to prove anything to you.


Dude, you are sounding abit schizo here. People like that tend to imagine multiple personalities like for example as a 50 yr old principal listening to clubbing songs. 

I think I am gonna stop before you explode.


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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Pigs can fly? really? wow you Chinese are so real and smart. You guys lose touch to reality so quickly. Do you even know what is ASME and ASTM?


There are materials standards, welding standards, pressure vessel standards, which one you are referring to. I have a gig of these standards in my hard drive. You want some? You must be one of those guys that can't get sarcasm. Most likely due to your education or lack of it.



vtnsx said:


> By the way, you Chinese Engineers can't build anything right. I have to fix it all and make it right. Your senior Engineers are useless and brainless. Without me, they are nothing. You guys watch too much Chinese fantasy novels and fairy tails, you forgot reality. Your best engineers are affected by it. LOL, it's a reality you need to address.


Hmm, a Viet calling a Chinese useless and brainless. Without you, we are nothing? Ermm, this is really getting abit worrying. Since when our nuclear, space and military programs depended on you?



vtnsx said:


> Space alloys? what is that? Space mix with carbon steel? hahaha. Only is made in China, eh?
> Yes you have been exporting steel to US and they have to rework your steel to meet the American standard. You probably don't know that because you're so full of 5h1t and too patriotic to your own kind to care.


If you want to squabble on semantics, fine, it's space grade alloys. I don't know how you can rework steel, are you telling me you melt Chinese steel and mix it to meet American standards? LOL. I know you can repair and rework welding for equipment, but the steel is still the same.



vtnsx said:


> You should ask India why they purchase Titanium from you. Everything made from China are low quality and you know it.
> 
> You should thank Singapore for giving you the opportunity to work with their companies and gain their knowledge and for you to be able to talk with me. You ungrateful pos.


You think we point a gun to India and ask them to purchase BILLIONS in our machines, rail equipment, power equipment, telecom equipment and yes, cheap plastic stuff? I guess if you call our products junk, the one buying those 'junk' are even dumber, no? I work and pay taxes in SG, they needed my set of skills, they pay for it, I work. FYI, manufacturing is all done in China, and the reason engineering and sales is not there is because of English, and tht is changing fast.


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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Non critical parts? As in the material for the whole body is non-critical? Are you really an engineer? Evaluating bids are done by technical engineers to check if the technicalities are correct, negotiating is done by procurement. If the technicalities are correct, normally the procurement committee will look at the cost, after which the vendor is selected and negotiation starts. Why are we going into bids and procurement, you are going out of topic, I was just proving to you Chinese material is used widely, it's just you don't realize it. A new resin developed by my company is made in China, we claim it's European for marketing purposes.


The problem is your tendency to cheat your customers, especially when they are non Chinese. Sure, you can produce high quality stuffs and of course superior steel. But once you win the bid, Chinese businesses begin their questionable business ethic. To increase the profit, Chinese bosses employ cheap subcontractors, slave labor, using cheap materials, delaying time window to keep pressure on customers, asking them for extra money. You believe, in general your non-Chinese customers are stupid.

Giving you an example. The owner of this building "The Square" in Germany, I was working there for a while, had been on the brink of bankruptcy because he made the mistake in buying Chinese steel. Instead of high quality, cheap steel was built in and had to be removed completely when the scandal came out. I can give you more examples how Chinese companies resort to cheating customers in Vietnam. There are endless reports about that.

It is all about business ethic. And yours is LOW.

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## Carlosa

vtnsx said:


> @Carlosa
> For your entertainment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



That's definitely my type of entertainment. 



Silent Knight said:


> Aegis-like destroyer? Not a chance in the next 30 years.
> Air defense frigate with 100+ km range missiles? Maybe 10-15 years, who knows then
> 
> Btw I'm with the Air Force, Navy is a bit further.



Hey, didn't you say once that you were the third generation of naval officers in your family?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Hey, didn't you say once that you were the third generation of naval officers in your family?


I didn't remember saying so 

Anyway, great news, the Su-30MK2V fleet has been cleared for normal flight operations. The grounding is ended.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Aegis-like destroyer? Not a chance in the next 30 years.
> Air defense frigate with 100+ km range missiles? Maybe 10-15 years, who knows then
> 
> Btw I'm with the Air Force, Navy is a bit further.


That's a bad news in my opinion. I hope we can build frigate in 5 years, destroyer in 10 years from now. Air defence frigate is a good start, but in 10 or 15 years? Can it be realized a bit earlier? Our opponent will soon field more ships than sharks swimming in the South China Sea. I know there are sceptics why we're need big chips at sea, but I am convinced we need them because to

- show our presence at sea. Be seen is important.

- have fleet defense. Don't we want a blue water navy?

- possess early warning and aerial defense against attacks toward the homeland. That is similar to what Japan has.


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> The problem is your tendency to cheat your customers, especially when they are non Chinese. Sure, you can produce high quality stuffs and of course superior steel. But once you win the bid, Chinese businesses begin their questionable business ethic. To increase the profit, Chinese bosses employ cheap subcontractors, slave labor, using cheap materials, delaying time window to keep pressure on customers, asking them for extra money. You believe, in general your non-Chinese customers are stupid.
> 
> Giving you an example. The owner of this building "The Square" in Germany, I was working there for a while, had been on the brink of bankruptcy because he made the mistake in buying Chinese steel. Instead of high quality, cheap steel was built in and had to be removed completely when the scandal came out. I can give you more examples how Chinese companies resort to cheating customers in Vietnam. There are endless reports about that.
> 
> It is all about business ethic. And yours is LOW.


I am really sick of repeating myself, China exports 2 trillion worth of goods. There will be bad apples, and its naive to think you get good equipment paying peanuts. Nobody is pointing a gun at you to buy. If by your logic most Chinese businesses are cheats, then how the heck are we still the largest exporter. People in Germany or Vietnam must be pretty dumb. 
Slave labor? Last I heard Chinese wages are triple or quadruple Viet wages. Some even cross the border to work as 'slaves'. I really hope for your countries sake, you WAKE UP! You have no idea who you are facing.


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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> I am really sick of repeating myself, China exports 2 trillion worth of goods. There will be bad apples, and its naive to think you get good equipment paying peanuts. Nobody is pointing a gun at you to buy. If by your logic most Chinese businesses are cheats, then how the heck are we still the largest exporter. People in Germany or Vietnam must be pretty dumb.
> Slave labor? Last I heard Chinese wages are triple or quadruple Viet wages. Some even cross the border to work as 'slaves'. I really hope for your countries sake, you WAKE UP! You have no idea who you are facing.


Let's take Huawei Germany. The company pays slave wages. Including long working hours, command structure top to down, little to no pay for working overtime, discrimination of non-Chinese speakers, worse than with the Japanese.

But we are off topic.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> That's a bad news in my opinion. I hope we can build frigate in 5 years, destroyer in 10 years from now. Air defence frigate is a good start, but in 10 or 15 years? Can it be realized a bit earlier? Our opponent will soon field more ships than sharks swimming in the South China Sea. I know there are sceptics why we're need big chips at sea, but I am convinced we need them because to
> 
> - show our presence at sea. Be seen is important.
> 
> - have fleet defense. Don't we want a blue water navy?
> 
> - possess early warning and aerial defense against attacks toward the homeland. That is similar to what Japan has.


Not really.

Given our industries and technology, that's the best case scenario. We can only build 500 tons missile boats and not even have the technology to build light frigates (2000 tons class). If you want air defense frigates, you'll need 3000 tons vessels at least, which we won't be able to build in the next 10-15 years.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> I didn't remember saying so ]



You pulled my leg again.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Not really.
> 
> Given our industries and technology, that's the best case scenario. We can only build 500 tons missile boats and not even have the technology to build light frigates (2000 tons class). If you want air defense frigates, you'll need 3000 tons vessels at least, which we won't be able to build in the next 10-15 years.


Bro you sound very pessimistic and describe a situation which happens now and will happen in the future given the same scenario and expected circumstances.

We can try to buy the technology we need to build ships, can't we?

We can copy the design from others and make it into our ship, or is it something that is impossible?

Can we begin to build the hull and import the rest?

If we never try we will never know we can.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Bro you sound very pessimistic and describe a situation which happens now and will happen in the future given the same scenario and expected circumstances.
> 
> We can try to buy the technology we need to build ships, can't we?
> 
> We can copy the design from others and make it into our ship, or is it something that is impossible?
> 
> Can we begin to build the hull and import the rest?
> 
> If we never try we will never know we can.



I think more importantly, lets analyze the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette. 

The weapon systems and sensors of the TT-400TP gun boat and the Molniya corvette are simpler than the Gepard, but isn't in both cases that all those weapons and sensors are bought from Russia and even in the case of the TT-400TP which is a domestic project, it is actually the Russians that come to integrate the systems and once the testing is done, they give out the warrantee, so........ can't the same be done in a 2000 ton ship? 

The other element is the hull, but is that so complicated and different from those other 2 hulls that Vietnam can't design it?

Lets get @Silent Knight opinions on this and lets be clear about what the issues are. It seems to me that it should not be so difficult to add missiles to a, lets say a stretched version of a TT-400TP and from there enlarge the hull further and add more sensors and weapon systems to get to a 2000 ton light frigate. The vendors that will supply those sensors and weapon systems will give all the relevant information and one vendor will get selected to do the full integration and testing of all systems.

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## Viet

Welcome to Vietnam!
Japanese aircraft carrier JDS Shimokita

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## Viet

July 23, 2016 1:00 pm JST
*Vietnamese kids brush up their AK-47 skills at summer camp*
ATSUSHI TOMIYAMA, Nikkei staff writer






A boy goes through a fire-fighting drill while other kids get some military training.


HANOI -- With rising incomes, more Vietnamese parents are sending their kids to summer camp -- but not any old summer camp.

In early June, an elementary school girl had an AK-47, the Vietnamese army's rifle of choice, across one knee at a camp on the outskirts of Hanoi. Children at the camp get almost the same training as new soldiers. They are taught how to disassemble and assemble a gun, how to avoid bullets and how to handle army dogs. Students who show a particular aptitude with guns can even get some live-fire training.



Since last year, military training programs for kids have been gaining popularity. A week or so of kids boot camp costs about 5 million dong ($224). Some 200 children participated this summer. Then, the schedule ended.

But a flood of inquiries prompted the army to add camps later this month and in August.

The training program is held at more than five locations, including in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City and the southern province of Ninh Thuan.

Le Thi Kim Dung, 35, in June sent her 9-year-old son to the boot camp in Hanoi. It was the boy's first time away from the family, and his mother said he returned with more discipline and strength.

In the northern province of Hoa Binh, a fire-fighting academy provides counterterrorism training. The six-day program teaches children, among other skills, how to handle themselves should terrorists strike. Although the course costs as much as 5.6 million dong, the number of participants this year is expected to reach 1,000, up 150% from last year.

Terror attacks in Bangladesh and Turkey this year might have helped boost enrollment numbers.

At least one camp teaches kids how to deal with bullies. The Institute of education development and intellectual Viet, or IEDV, in Hanoi, started offering an anti-bullying camp a few years ago. Participants are taught self-defense skills, how to escape violence and first aid training. Camp-goers are also taught how to consult with teachers and parents and how to make up with friends after a fight.

As Vietnam's economy grows, parents are spending more money on their kids' futures. Educational spending in June was up 4.6% from a year earlier and 8.57% from 24 months earlier, mainly due to parents' fervor for education, rather than tuition increases.

Since a good academic background is held in high regard, most Vietnamese parents send their children to after-school classes and cram schools. Now, a growing number of them are signing up their kids for swimming, golf and martial arts lessons, even though these courses do not directly relate to entrance exams.


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## Viet

Visit the textile factory that produces clothes for the army

(Text and pictures from infonet.vn)





Với máy móc hiện đại và tác phong làm việc chuyên nghiệp, Tổng công ty 28 đang tạo ra những sản phẩm chất lượng tốt nhất phục vụ quân đội và xuất khẩu ra thị trường nước ngoài… Trong ảnh là dây chuyền máy sợi con hiện đại. 






Công nhân Tôn Nữ Thị Thanh Thảo, xí nghiệp sợi, vận hành, làm chủ thiết bị hiện đại.






May quân phục hải quân tại xí nghiệp may.






Kết thúc công đoạn nhuộm, vải sẵn sàng trở thành quân trang phục vụ bộ đội. 








Chuyền may 7, xí nghiệp may đo, luôn đạt năng suất cao, chất lượng tốt. 






Công nhân Nguyễn Đình Thiều vận hành máy sợi thô. 






Cán bộ, công nhân xí nghiệp dệt thi đua chào mừng kỷ niệm 69 năm ngày thanh lập Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam. 






May quân phục dã chiến tại xí nghiệp may đo.

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## Han Patriot

Carlosa said:


> I think more importantly, lets analyze the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette.
> 
> The weapon systems and sensors of the TT-400TP gun boat and the Molniya corvette are simpler than the Gepard, but isn't in both cases that all those weapons and sensors are bought from Russia and even in the case of the TT-400TP which is a domestic project, it is actually the Russians that come to integrate the systems and once the testing is done, they give out the warrantee, so........ can't the same be done in a 2000 ton ship?
> 
> The other element is the hull, but is that so complicated and different from those other 2 hulls that Vietnam can't design it?
> 
> Lets get @Silent Knight opinions on this and lets be clear about what the issues are. It seems to me that it should not be so difficult to add missiles to a, lets say a stretched version of a TT-400TP and from there enlarge the hull further and add more sensors and weapon systems to get to a 2000 ton light frigate. The vendors that will supply those sensors and weapon systems will give all the relevant information and one vendor will get selected to do the full integration and testing of all systems.



I find Viets more humble and pragmatic. You are not boastful like the Indians. That's how China started out decades ago, building the hull, copying and learning. You are on the right track, but most important is civilian economy. Deng emphasize economy above all and only after economic power was achieved, did the military might develop.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> I think more importantly, lets analyze the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette.
> 
> The weapon systems and sensors of the TT-400TP gun boat and the Molniya corvette are simpler than the Gepard, but isn't in both cases that all those weapons and sensors are bought from Russia and even in the case of the TT-400TP which is a domestic project, it is actually the Russians that come to integrate the systems and once the testing is done, they give out the warrantee, so........ can't the same be done in a 2000 ton ship?
> 
> The other element is the hull, but is that so complicated and different from those other 2 hulls that Vietnam can't design it?
> 
> Lets get @Silent Knight opinions on this and lets be clear about what the issues are. It seems to me that it should not be so difficult to add missiles to a, lets say a stretched version of a TT-400TP and from there enlarge the hull further and add more sensors and weapon systems to get to a 2000 ton light frigate. The vendors that will supply those sensors and weapon systems will give all the relevant information and one vendor will get selected to do the full integration and testing of all systems.



The hull itself is a must have, but added little value to the total cost.
The sensors, radars, weapons are more valueable things. 

Even the powertrain elements Vietnam can't build for themselves.

The smaller design is the easier way to start. 

Building the OPV 2400, and next OPV 3750 could be steps to the first domestic frigate

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## Carlosa

Han Patriot said:


> I find Viets more humble and pragmatic. You are not boastful like the Indians. That's how China started out decades ago, building the hull, copying and learning. You are on the right track, but most important is civilian economy. Deng emphasize economy above all and only after economic power was achieved, did the military might develop.



That's kind of what I said earlier, Vietnam is kind of doing the same thing, following the same path and step by step are going to get to where they need (which is not the same level as China and India, but it will be the level that they need that is feasible and practical for them). Vietnam started much later, so it will arrive there much later. Lets not forget that the country was at war for decades.

Yes, the economy is for the most part the key that provides the funding and at the same time the technological development that can spread into the military sector. That's why Viettel (a telecom company owned by the military) is doing the most sophisticated military projects that are now done in Vietnam and they are doing it with great success. Vietnam recently acquired the capability to make its own chips, well that's important for military technology. Many other examples like that. As more high tech foreign companies come to Vietnam, more technological capabilities get developed and later spread to the military sector.

Rome was not made in 1 day.



BoQ77 said:


> The hull itself is a must have, but added little value to the total cost.
> The sensors, radars, weapons are more valueable things.
> 
> Even the powertrain elements Vietnam can't build for themselves.
> 
> The smaller design is the easier way to start.
> 
> Building the OPV 2400, and next OPV 3750 could be steps to the first domestic frigate



Yes, but we are not talking Vietnam having to make every component. Few countries can do that. The propulsion and electrical generators can be ordered from Ukraine , Germany, etc. Until the conflict in Ukraine, Russia was buying the propulsion from Ukraine, so why Vietnam can't? I don't think that's the issue.

And yes, to start small, that's why I said why not do an enlarged TT-400TP with missiles, maybe 65-70 meters and then jump to maybe a 1500-2000 ton ship.

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## BoQ77

In my opinion, at this phase, VCG and Fishery Surveillance ( VFS ) get much support from Japan, US .. so Vietnam takes that chance to get expertise by building lots of CSB or KN ships.

After, the expertise would be applied to Navy ships with lesser risk of failure.

Anyway, after the lift of US arm embargo, Vietnam has more chance to get TOT, even from Russia, which is unable in the past.

Now it's time for VCG and VFS
Next it would be time for Navy

The deal of 6 subs is early and wise move.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> The hull itself is a must have, but added little value to the total cost.
> The sensors, radars, weapons are more valueable things.
> 
> Even the powertrain elements Vietnam can't build for themselves.
> 
> The smaller design is the easier way to start.
> 
> Building the OPV 2400, and next OPV 3750 could be steps to the first domestic frigate



What's the deal with the OPV 2400 and OPV 3750? Is Vietnam going to make those under Damen license?


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> What's the deal with the OPV 2400 and OPV 3750? Is Vietnam going to make those under Damen license?



OPV 2400 is DN-2000




I'm still not sure DN-4000 is OPV 3750 or not.
But keep posting the unfinished vessel beside a finished one to compare.

I myself believe it's a navy platform and would be prepared for Air defence role

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> OPV 2400 is DN-2000
> I'm still not sure DN-4000 is OPV 3750 or not.



Oh I see, ok. Yes, that's one way to go. I thought DN-2000 was OPV-9014.



BoQ77 said:


> OPV 2400 is DN-2000
> View attachment 320169
> 
> I'm still not sure DN-4000 is OPV 3750 or not.
> But keep posting the unfinished vessel beside a finished one to compare.
> 
> I myself believe it's a navy platform and would be prepared for Air defence role



That's a nice picture and gives some good clues.

I think Vietnam should easily be able to do its own OPV derivative of the DN-2000, its not that much different than what goes into a TT-400TP, but I wonder if the contract with Damen allows for that without having to pay license again.

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## BoQ77

Vietnam need both ships for CG and Navy, Damen need lab rat for new platform.
So I guess Vietnam ordered 8 straight with huge preference.

I heard that Australia also ordered OPV 2400 from Damen which build in Vietnam too.

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> I find Viets more humble and pragmatic. You are not boastful like the Indians. That's how China started out decades ago, building the hull, copying and learning. You are on the right track, but most important is civilian economy. Deng emphasize economy above all and only after economic power was achieved, did the military might develop.


Deng is China economic hero, but for Vietnam a war criminal. He had his dirty hands in supporting the Red Khmer in Cambodia and raging the war against Vietnam in the 1980s. His terrible legacy is still felt in Vietnam today. But I give him credit, before he died he wanted to see both countries to normalize the relationship, ending hostilities.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> What's the deal with the OPV 2400 and OPV 3750? Is Vietnam going to make those under Damen license?


We have about 33 shipyards. I can't imagine that is impossible for us in a reasonable timeframe, let say five or ten years, to build air defence frigates or destroyers. Understandable we can't make everything all components the last screw, but why not buying stuffs overseas and assembling them together? Why not buying the technology and install in our factory? Why not employing foreign experts in our shipyards? India shows that is possible. Many other countries prove that is possible.

Our cooperation with the Dutch especially Damen shows great success in building coast guard vessels, I see no reason why not expand to building of warships?

as for the bigger variant of OPV, that is confirmed we will do it (I believe the source is VN coast guard itself), though no info available when we are going to see the first giant coast guard vessel.


*I. Shipyards of SBIC ( Vinashin )*

SBIC : SHIPBUILDING INDUSTRY CORPORATION

1. Ha Long shipyard – Ha Long city / North of Vietnam 

2. Pha Rung shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

3. Bach Dang shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

4. Song Cam shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

5. Cam Ranh shipyard- Nha Trang city / Middle of Vietnam

6. SSIC shipyard- Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam

7. Saigon shipmarin shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam

8. Thinh Long shipyard – Nam Dinh city / North of Vietnam

*II. Other shipyards*

1. Hyundai – Vinashin shipyard – Khanh Hoa province / Middle of Vietnam

2. Dong Bac shipyard – Ha Long city / North of Vietnam

3. Song Thu shipyard- Da Nang city / Middle of Vietnam

4. Hong Ha shipyard- Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

5. Vard shipyard ( STX Vung Tau )- Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam 

6. SEAS shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam

7. Strategic Marine – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam

8.Triyard shipyards – Ho Chi Minh & Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam

9. Vuot Song shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam

10. An Phu shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam

11. Dai Tay Duong shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

12. Dai Duong shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

13. PTSC shipyard – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam

14. Lisemco shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

17. X46 shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

18. Vung Tau shipyard – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam

19. PV shipyard – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam

21. Ba Son shipyard- Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam

22. Nam Trieu shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

23. Ben Kien shipyard- Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

24. Dung Quat shipyard – Quang Ngai city / Middle of Vietnam

25. Damen Song Cam 0 Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Bro you sound very pessimistic and describe a situation which happens now and will happen in the future given the same scenario and expected circumstances.


My assumption was based on the current situation of our industries. I'd like to be optimistic but this is the hard fact.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> We have about 33 shipyards. I can't imagine that is impossible for us in a reasonable timeframe, let say five or ten years, to build air defence frigates or destroyers. Understandable we can't make everything all components the last screw, but why not buying stuffs overseas and assembling them together? Why not buying the technology and install in our factory? Why not employing foreign experts in our shipyards? India shows that is possible. Many other countries prove that is possible.
> 
> Our cooperation with the Dutch especially Damen shows great success in building coast guard vessels, I see no reason why not expand to building of warships?
> 
> as for the bigger variant of OPV, that is confirmed we will do it (I believe the source is VN coast guard itself), though no info available when we are going to see the first giant coast guard vessel.
> 
> 
> *I. Shipyards of SBIC ( Vinashin )*
> 
> SBIC : SHIPBUILDING INDUSTRY CORPORATION
> 
> 1. Ha Long shipyard – Ha Long city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 2. Pha Rung shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 3. Bach Dang shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 4. Song Cam shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 5. Cam Ranh shipyard- Nha Trang city / Middle of Vietnam
> 
> 6. SSIC shipyard- Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 7. Saigon shipmarin shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 8. Thinh Long shipyard – Nam Dinh city / North of Vietnam
> 
> *II. Other shipyards*
> 
> 1. Hyundai – Vinashin shipyard – Khanh Hoa province / Middle of Vietnam
> 
> 2. Dong Bac shipyard – Ha Long city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 3. Song Thu shipyard- Da Nang city / Middle of Vietnam
> 
> 4. Hong Ha shipyard- Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 5. Vard shipyard ( STX Vung Tau )- Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 6. SEAS shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 7. Strategic Marine – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 8.Triyard shipyards – Ho Chi Minh & Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 9. Vuot Song shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 10. An Phu shipyard – Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 11. Dai Tay Duong shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 12. Dai Duong shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 13. PTSC shipyard – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 14. Lisemco shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 17. X46 shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 18. Vung Tau shipyard – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 19. PV shipyard – Vung Tau city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 21. Ba Son shipyard- Ho Chi Minh city / South of Vietnam
> 
> 22. Nam Trieu shipyard – Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 23. Ben Kien shipyard- Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam
> 
> 24. Dung Quat shipyard – Quang Ngai city / Middle of Vietnam
> 
> 25. Damen Song Cam 0 Hai Phong city / North of Vietnam



Yes, the bigger OPV, the DN-4000 will be built in Danang and it should be finished in 2019 according to the reports. I think the initial contract is for 2 units.

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## BoQ77

I plan to visit Ha Long shipyard next month, maybe I could have some interesting news after that.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> My assumption was based on the current situation of our industries. I'd like to be optimistic but this is the hard fact.



That is correct, but can you elaborate on what are the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette?


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## Carlosa

Nice video of SU-30MK2V courtesy of the friendly comcom people:

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## Farhan Bohra

Han Patriot said:


> I already repeated myself many times, if you have three bids, all conforming to the same standards, next will be cost. Understand? I stated previously, India and China both can produce shitty steel, but certain grade of steel India cannot produce.
> 
> Example, warship grade steel until 2014, India needed to import those steel. High temperature super alloys, which I mentioned earlier.


.Still whole IAC-1 launched without warship grade steel? From where IAC-1 steel came, Mars? 

Lol, you chinese. LMAO.



Han Patriot said:


> A level higher than Seniors are Principals, and most are in their 50s, so you telling me you are a 50 year old listening to techno songs?
> 
> Right...and pigs can fly. ASME/ASTM are AMERICAN standards, if Chinese steel conform to those standards witnessed by 3rd party inspection companies, what do you not understand? We had been exporting steel products to US for decades.
> 
> Yah, if we can make submarine grade steel, space alloys,* and even export titanium sponges to INDIA for their 'indigenous' space program, we can't make CS, SS, Duplex steel?*



Seriously? And not Europe?  

FYI,
http://www.isro.gov.in/indigenous-titanium-sponge-plant-operational



Han Patriot said:


> Do you know how long their ship had been under construction? Do you since when they started using their own 'indigenous' steel? Do you before 2014, all Indian warship were made from 'IMPORTED' steel? Compare with China those naval subsystems and see which is indigenous. They commissioned the nuclear sub? They haven't even sort out the problems with the sub. China had been building nuclear subs for the past 30-40 years on our own. How much of the sub is even indigenous. They don't even have a semicon fab for god's sake. Where are those chips in the subsystems made in? *The AESA radar for example, you need a foundry from those chips, you get it*?



This is the reason China after wonderful semiconductor feb was demanding AESA in SU-35? But Russia said fuk u?

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## Viet

How long it takes for the crew to "sharpen"
the SAM?

1 minute

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## Carlosa

Some pics of the defenses in the Spratly islands:

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## Viet

I read PLA generals brag they can retake "Chinese territories" in South China Sea at any time they want. Only their peaceful rise hinders them from using force. I think we should make the party a bit more funny if we deploy heavy artilleries for the island defense. If not happening already. 152 mm coastal artillery.

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> That is correct, but can you elaborate on what are the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette?


Most likely to be metallurgical and shipbuilding technologies themselves.

That's why we're building the OPVs under Damen supervision, to learn the modular shipbuilding and stuff.

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## cnleio

Carlosa said:


> Some pics of the defenses in the Spratly islands:
> 
> View attachment 320297


Anti-tank gun ???


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## Carlosa

cnleio said:


> Anti-tank gun ???



I think that's a 122mm gun, not really sure. Its not an anti tank gun, but I imagine it will get used against approaching ships and as last resort, directly against landing craft.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Most likely to be metallurgical and shipbuilding technologies themselves.
> 
> That's why we're building the OPVs under Damen supervision, to learn the modular shipbuilding and stuff.



Ok, that means the steel for the hull, etc. I do remember that it took India quite a bit of time to be able to make the steel for their warships.

The Molniya class is already modular, but I think the big prize in the modular technology is the Sigma class.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> How to get there, anyone know?
> We are just back home from Tioman island, MY


Yen island is about 25 km from Nha Trang coast.
Best to take a boat. There are more islands in the near.

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## Viet

*Leading Russian ship repair company opens representative office in Vietnam *
12 July 2016 TASS


This is the first overseas unit opened, SSTC said.


Russia’s Shipbuilding and Ship Repair Technology Center (SSTC), the leading developer of shipbuilding and repair technologies, opened a representative office in Vietnam, the company told TASS on Tuesday.

This is the first overseas unit opened, SSTC said.

"SSTC is connected by long-term fruitful cooperation with Vietnam. The company has recently participated in development of onshore infrastructure for the submarine base in Central Vietnam and in the joint Vietnamese-Russian project of X-52 ship repair plant development," a company’s representative said.

SSTC sees the highest prospects for developing of research-technology and economic partnership with Vietnam, the company said.

SSTC on VietShip 2016, Hanoi


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Ok, that means the steel for the hull, etc. I do remember that it took India quite a bit of time to be able to make the steel for their warships.
> 
> The Molniya class is already modular, but I think the big prize in the modular technology is the Sigma class.


The Molniya is still built by old techniques, not the modular approach like SIGMA frigate. That's why we work with Damne to learn their shipbuilding technology.



Carlosa said:


> I think that's a 122mm gun, not really sure. Its not an anti tank gun, but I imagine it will get used against approaching ships and as last resort, directly against landing craft.


That looks like the D-44 85 mm gun, one of the best direct fire gun for shore defense.

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## Han Patriot

Farhan Bohra said:


> .Still whole IAC-1 launched without warship grade steel? From where IAC-1 steel came, Mars?


Hmm, my last update on Indian warship technology was 2014, up until then, the submarine steel were still imported for the Scorpene sub. Am I right?

As for your DMR-249 aka Russian AB steel copy, it only came around 2006-2008, there were using your IAC-1 as a testbed. That's the reason it is delayed and still not complete till now.Good luck on trying out 'new' steel on your first carrier. I have read reports about quality and production issues, maybe you can enlighten us on this.

It was only 2010/11 onwards, you start hearing India instructing all new vessels to be built with Indian steel. Most likely production and quality issues resolved?

You want to know hw far behind you are? 
http://gentleseas.blogspot.my/2015/04/submarine-steel-strength-implications.html
http://seesaawiki.jp/w/doramarine/




Farhan Bohra said:


> Seriously? And not Europe?
> 
> FYI,
> http://www.isro.gov.in/indigenous-titanium-sponge-plant-operational


http://articles.economictimes.india..._kmml-isro-indian-space-research-organisation

If you read the article completely, you would know that the titanium production only started in 2015, and the 3 major sources of Indian titanium were Japan, Russia and China. I pointed out that due to cost reasons, China was most probably the largest source?



Farhan Bohra said:


> This is the reason China after wonderful semiconductor feb was demanding AESA in SU-35? But Russia said fuk u?


I only know we have AESA tech, and the current gen is the third generation in Chinese terms. The main reason for SU-35 was the engines, and at that price tag, the Russians most probably know we are gonna copy it.The fact remains, we can make AESA radars and you can't. Hell, you don't even have a semicon fab, how are you gonna make those silicon? LOL.


----------



## vtnsx

Farhan Bohra said:


> .Still whole IAC-1 launched without warship grade steel? From where IAC-1 steel came, Mars?
> 
> Lol, you chinese. LMAO.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? And not Europe?
> 
> FYI,
> http://www.isro.gov.in/indigenous-titanium-sponge-plant-operational
> 
> 
> 
> This is the reason China after wonderful semiconductor feb was demanding AESA in SU-35? But Russia said fuk u?



Interesting



Carlosa said:


> That is correct, but can you elaborate on what are the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette?



That's a hard question to answer for people who haven't being in design for large project. But I can provide you with some idea.

I know from Design experience that when you're building something small, there's less requirements on the physical aspect of material. But when you're dealing with much much larger object, then you have to take everything into consideration and that would require some big minds.

I wish I know all the answers for you but that would be a billion dollar answer. 



Han Patriot said:


> I only know we have AESA tech, and the current gen is the third generation in Chinese terms. The main reason for SU-35 was the engines, and at that price tag, the Russians most probably know we are gonna copy it.The fact remains, we can make AESA radars and you can't. Hell, you don't even have a semicon fab, how are you gonna make those silicon? LOL.



Chinese are good at stealing technology from other countries who are better than them. Stop the bs. We all know you can't without stealing tech but you can't do it right. Just like the low grade Chinese steel and plastic. Everything you said are plagiarism. No-one should take the Chinese seriously these days.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-strongly-resembles-israeli-product/32108793/

Understand this, respect is earned through blood and battles and helping the weak. Not by stealing and copying other people's hard work. That's what a coward would do by stealing and copying other's hard work.

US earned a lot of respect by allowing the Jews escaped the German. They fought WWII and helped Britain. They built China. Without the US sending in thousands of jobs to China, you wouldn't be here talking to us today. USA made China strong to counter Russia. They could've shifted the work elsewhere and made other countries rich and powerful. They gave technologies and money to Japan and South Korea. There are thousands of things they have done. But you Chinese are brainwashed to believe in your selfish government and support their own cause, not yours.

Do you know why the US has the "Second Amendment" where no other countries have such a law? Wake up, Princess!

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## Farhan Bohra

Han Patriot said:


> Hmm, my last update on Indian warship technology was 2014, up until then, the submarine steel were still imported for the Scorpene sub. Am I right?
> 
> As for your DMR-249 aka Russian AB steel copy, it only came around 2006-2008, there were using your IAC-1 as a testbed. That's the reason it is delayed and still not complete till now.Good luck on trying out 'new' steel on your first carrier. I have read reports about quality and production issues, maybe you can enlighten us on this.
> 
> It was only 2010/11 onwards, you start hearing India instructing all new vessels to be built with Indian steel. Most likely production and quality issues resolved?


You was born in 2014? Thats why you have no information before that year? Firstly it was 2014, then it now reached 2010? Lol?

Start to learn more instead of banging your head.

And have you read the quality of Indian Warship grade steel? Please show here report.



> You want to know hw far behind you are?


You know when India started to build single hull submarines? in 80s? Lolz, you have no idea. Do you?



> If you read the article completely, you would know that the titanium production only started in 2015, and the 3 major sources of Indian titanium were Japan, Russia and China. I pointed out that due to cost reasons, China was most probably the largest source?


Largest source of which? Raw material or finished product?

There is a difference in buying raw material, and a finished products. Finished products always in 90s and early millennium was coming from France & Russia for space program, not China.

Start doing your research.



> I only know we have AESA tech, and the current gen is the third generation in Chinese terms. The main reason for SU-35 was the engines, and at that price tag, the Russians most probably know we are gonna copy it.


Your intelligence level is this? I am amazed. 



> The fact remains, we can make AESA radars and you can't. Hell, you don't even have a semicon fab, how are you gonna make those silicon? LOL.



The word is "semiconductor", not semicon. If you dont know how to type a word, then dont type it.

Secondly, if semiconductor fabrication is the criteria, then companies like Elta and Selex or Phazotron never able to develop AESA, right? Lolz. You Chinese, never able to understand the word R&D. Never able to distinguish between design, fabrication and manufacturing.






And BTW, that radar possibly find its way to Super Sukhoi (offering to Vietnam for SU upgrade) program, thats how Russia keep a tight leash of IPR over China.

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## Silent Knight

Meanwhile in Vietnam.

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## Han Patriot

Farhan Bohra said:


> You was born in 2014? Thats why you have no information before that year? Firstly it was 2014, then it now reached 2010? Lol?
> 
> Start to learn more instead of banging your head.
> 
> And have you read the quality of Indian Warship grade steel? Please show here report.


Erm, you do not know much about warship steel do you? I made a statement of what I know till 2014, which was you are still importing warship steel. Now, I am going to give you some update, your Scorpene are still importing foreign steel and your Arihant was also most probably made using foreign steel as well according to this article

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/385482/india-manufacture-indigenous-submarines-soon.html?mstac=0

Regading production issues, it was a news report from India which was talking about production and quality issues on the DMR steel, and that's why
a lot of projects were delayed. Well I was hoping you could prove me wrong, that's why I asked you to enlighten us on this issue, but it seems you are ignorant as well.




Farhan Bohra said:


> You know when India started to build single hull submarines? in 80s? Lolz, you have no idea. Do you?


You were building German HDW submarines under license. It's another screw driver tech thing. The steel was imported and you just weld up a submarine. So tell me how many 'indigenous' submarines you built before Arihant?




Farhan Bohra said:


> Largest source of which? Raw material or finished product?
> 
> There is a difference in buying raw material, and a finished products. Finished products always in 90s and early millennium was coming from France & Russia for space program, not China.
> 
> Start doing your research.
> 
> Your intelligence level is this? I am amazed.


The article clearly says Titanium sponge and it did say the 3 major source, which was Japan Russia China. If you want to argue, you can argue with that INDIAN news website. Btw, you are diverting the topic, the point is until 2015, all you titanium sponge were imported, which meant your aerospace components were all built using foreign material. So how can you call your space program 'indigenous'?



Farhan Bohra said:


> The word is "semiconductor", not semicon. If you dont know how to type a word, then dont type it.


I like to use the short form, and if you are so petty like a girl to argue over this, I don't care. 



Farhan Bohra said:


> Secondly, if semiconductor fabrication is the criteria, then companies like Elta and Selex or Phazotron never able to develop AESA, right? Lolz. You Chinese, never able to understand the word R&D. Never able to distinguish between design, fabrication and manufacturing.


You are still not answering my question, those countries where the companies reside in all have semicon fabs. INDIA DOESN'T HAVE SINGLE OPERATING FAB, so where are the semicon made in?




Farhan Bohra said:


> And BTW, that radar possibly find its way to Super Sukhoi (offering to Vietnam for SU upgrade) program, thats how Russia keep a tight leash of IPR over China.


You sure about that?.Btw, why show me a Zhuk radar, the topic was whether India has got an AESA radar. The answer is NO. lol


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## Bennedict

Carlosa said:


> That is correct, but can you elaborate on what are the specific technological reasons that prevent Vietnam from doing a domestic 2000 ton corvette?


I think mostly because of geopolitical situation bro, Vietnam needs to add more frigates and same time replacing old frigates in faster pace than most Asean nation because of recent provocation by China, so your goverment (maybe) choose importing large warship (frigates/corvettes) to minimalizing time than building warships locally, different case with Indonesia, we have better situation so we can build warships locally, in a slower pace.

Building warships aren't same like building commercial vessels, just because you have dozens commercial shipbuilders, doesn't mean your shipbuilders can suddenly build complex warship. Philippines can be prime example, they have a lot of large commercial shipbuilders, but majority are belong to foreign firm and they didn't have sufficient metal supply (mostly imported, CMIIW)

You should start from bottom, like providing continous supply of military-grade steels. Building 200-500 ton missile boats has been good start.

Partnering with foreign shipbuilders also important, there's a lot of available shipbuilders who eager to cooperate if Vietnam can offer huge chunk of moneys. example, Indonesia herself has succesfully built her first LPD _Makassar _around 2010's under supervision from Daesun Shipbuilding, Sigmas, and recently Chang Bogo subs, with extra cost. Singapore also provide extra chunk to build her Formidable frigates and Victory-class corvettes locally.

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## Han Patriot

vtnsx said:


> Interesting
> 
> Chinese are good at stealing technology from other countries who are better than them. Stop the bs. We all know you can't without stealing tech but you can't do it right. Just like the low grade Chinese steel and plastic. Everything you said are plagiarism. No-one should take the Chinese seriously these days.
> 
> http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...-strongly-resembles-israeli-product/32108793/
> 
> Understand this, respect is earned through blood and battles and helping the weak. Not by stealing and copying other people's hard work. That's what a coward would do by stealing and copying other's hard work.


I am going to proudly repeat myself again, China, begs, borrows, steal, copy, absorb, develop and innovate. Wake up! This is the reality of things and if you want to catch up with the big powers, this is the only way. We are a pragmatic race and the results are proving us right.

I still remember the days when people were laughing at us when we started our microprocessor program 15 years ago. We told them we want to make a supercomputer more powerful than the US with our won chips, that was our aim. They aren't laughing now, are they?

I still remember the Indians laughing when we said we are sending a man to space. They said China can never be the third country after the Americans and Soviets. That was 13 years ago, and now we are building a space station.

I still remember the world laughing when we said we want to build the largest HSR network on earth and make the trains ourselves too. The Japanese laughed at us, now we are competing with them head on in the world.

After digesting all Russian tech, the only real power left to compete with the US is China.

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## Carlosa

Bennedict said:


> I think mostly because of geopolitical situation bro, Vietnam needs to add more frigates and same time replacing old frigates in faster pace than most Asean nation because of recent provocation by China, so your goverment (maybe) choose importing large warship (frigates/corvettes) to minimalizing time than building warships locally, different case with Indonesia, we have better situation so we can build warships locally, in a slower pace.
> 
> Building warships aren't same like building commercial vessels, just because you have dozens commercial shipbuilders, doesn't mean your shipbuilders can suddenly build complex warship. Philippines can be prime example, they have a lot of large commercial shipbuilders, but majority are belong to foreign firm and they didn't have sufficient metal supply (mostly imported, CMIIW)
> 
> You should start from bottom, like providing continous supply of military-grade steels. Building 200-500 ton missile boats has been good start.
> 
> Partnering with foreign shipbuilders also important, there's a lot of available shipbuilders who eager to cooperate if Vietnam can offer huge chunk of moneys. example, Indonesia herself has succesfully built her first LPD _Makassar _around 2010's under supervision from Daesun Shipbuilding, Sigmas, and recently Chang Bogo subs, with extra cost. Singapore also provide extra chunk to build her Formidable frigates and Victory-class corvettes locally.



Very good points man, thank you. I guess it will be step by step and it will take some time. 
What can I say, we are impatient here.

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## Viet

TECHNOLOGY

*The Quest To Identify Vietnam's Unknown Soldiers Pushes The Limits of DNA Technology*

Advanced sequencing technologies are the centerpiece of an ambitious project to identify 70,000 fallen soldiers by 2020.





Vietnam, 1965

_[Photo: Flickr user Manhhai]_

CHRISTINA FARR 07.20.16 6:00 AM


"In Vietnam, religious traditions hold that the ghosts of the dead cannot rest without a proper burial in a place appropriate to the family," explains William Frasure, a professor of government at Connecticut College who has both lived and worked in the country. And yet, tombstones throughout the country still bear little else than the words "liet sy—chua diet ten," which translates to "martyr—name unknown."

The last unknown U.S. soldier from the Vietnam war was exhumed and identified, through DNA testing, in 1998. But in Vietnam, there are still upwards of 300,000 unidentified soldiers, and thousands more civilian victims who are still missing, buried in anonymous graves, rainforests, or fields. And scientists say that time is running out to identify these missing persons.

"It's been 30 to 50 years post-war; the relatives of fallen soldiers are aging," says Tran Thi Thanh Huyen of the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology (VAST). "Therefore there’s an urgent need for this project to be conducted."

The government in Hanoi is now investing 500 billion dong (US$25 million) into upgrading local DNA-testing facilities as part of Project 150, a collaboration between three institutions that aims to identify 70,000 fallen Vietnamese soldiers by 2020. The new facility is expected to open by the end of 2016.

If successful, this effort will showcase to the world how advanced sequencing techniques will expand the area of possibilities for the field of forensics. Next-generation sequencing, which replaces a 30-year-old technology called "Sanger Sequencing," is making it possible for the scientists in Vietnam to utilize samples that are degraded, dirty, or low-input. "With next-generation, we have worked up our clue game," jokes Dawn Barry, vice president at Illumina, the company that develops the sequencing machines. "Think of a lipstick stain on the edge of a glass."

The scientists in Vietnam are also learning from smaller-scale projects to identify war dead that have rolled out in Iraq, Thailand, India, Cyprus, and the U.S., among other countries. In some cases, it’s about prosecuting responsible parties. But in Vietnam, the stated purpose is to reunite older remains with living family members. That's challenging as many of the soldiers died young and childless, meaning that links will more likely need to be made to distant cousins or uncles rather than to direct offspring or parents, who may have already died.

The first step, then, is to establish a massive database of more than 1 million living citizens’ DNA, which includes saliva, hair, and blood. Those samples will provide a "reference database," which will be used to find familial links to the dead through a matching algorithm. It takes about three to six reference samples to confirm an identity of one missing person.


As part of the outreach efforts, citizens will also be asked to come forward with any eye-witness reports that might shed light on the identities of the victims. As Dr. Tran points out, DNA is just one way to identify people: Personal belongings, historical evidence, death certificates, and interviews with family members are data are also vitally important.

Before they collect data from citizens, the academic institutions in Vietnam received months of training from a global network of companies and not-for-profit organizations. Among them is medical-diagnostics giant Bioglobe, which signed a contract to transfer technology to the project in late 2015, as well as the Sarajevo-based International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP), which is best known for pioneering DNA-matching techniques in the wake of the Bosnian war, which provided key evidence for war crime tribunals.

Bioglobe, in partnership with European forensics company QIAGEN, will help the scientists develop a process for dealing with bone and teeth that might be contaminated with soil microbes, which makes it challenging to analyze what little DNA remains. That involves training in technology that can chemically break down their cells in bone samples, and wash away any contaminants.

"The components need to be compatible with each other to get the best results, says QIAGEN's Christian Starke. "(Especially) as the DNA is in bad shape by now." As Starke explains, DNA is influenced by many perimeters, including temperature and time. Neanderthal bones stored in a cave with a near-constant temperature will have almost no negative effect on the DNA. In Vietnam, the tropical conditions and high humidity promotes microbial growth and the DNA decays much faster.

Given the age and condition of the bones, tissue-based samples are no longer a viable option in Vietnam. ICMP has stepped up to guide the scientists in the exhumation phase so they avoid mixing up the bones of different individuals. The organization will also provide best practices on how to identify clues like gender. "We have gotten very good at getting DNA out of bone," says ICMP’s Director of Forensic Sciences’ Thomas Parsons. "And in finding DNA targets that tells us about human identity."

For bio-ethicists, some questions remain about how institutions in Vietnam will manage the vast store of health information that it will collect in the coming years.






Photo: courtesy of QIAGEN


"Someone is going to have access to that data or you can’t make matches," says Sara Katsanis, a researcher at Duke University’s department of Science and Society, who specializes in researching how DNA is used in human identification efforts. As Katsanis points out, this data could be used for a variety of nefarious purposes, such as surveillance or identity theft, if found its way into the wrong hands.


Katsanis says she’d want to see more transparency from the government on its data protection policies. Some countries with DNA databases, which are primarily used for the purposes of solving crimes, have recently declared that they will not retain innocent people's DNA indefinitely. In Malaysia, for instance, the government recently determined that those who are acquitted of crimes will have their DNA profiles removed from the database. A draft version of India's DNA bill was recently linked to the press, which has been criticized for a policy that would collect DNA from every person who is arrested without a limit on how long that information will be stored.

"No one wants data to be used against them," adds Parsons from ICMP, who also believes that it’s important to have a legal structure for preserving data and reaching out to families. With any kind of sizable undertaking like this, there is the potential to uncover discrepancies in family relationships. An example of that might be two siblings who believe they share the same parents, but are only half-siblings.

Dr. Tran from the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology says the data will be stored on an internal server, which will be shared with other labs when the project is fully up and running. And the academic organizations will hand off the reports to entities with the proper legal rights and responsibilities before any sensitive information is shared with family members.

Those involved with the initiative stress that they understand the enormity and gravity of the task. "It's not easy," says Cuong Nguyen, head of the Bioinformatics Lab at the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology, in a video interview with QIAGEN during his training. "We have to make it successful."


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## Silent Knight

Kh-31PD before a mission. Rumors had it that the VPAF has acquired at least 300-400 Kh-31 missiles, not to mention other anti-ship and air-to-ground missiles.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Meanwhile in Vietnam.


Remote controlled Igla or a similar shoulder anti aircraft missile, I guess.


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## Carlosa

A creative way to paint a map of the south china sea with the 9 dash line represented as a cow's tongue.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Remote controlled Igla or a similar shoulder anti aircraft missile, I guess.


Correct. It can be used on patrol boats, aside from the needs of the VPAF.

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## Viet

*

*
*

Japanese Coast Guard ship visits Đà Nẵng*
Update: July, 25/2016 - 17:40






A Japan Coast Guard Force ship, the Kojima, with 45 crew members and 49 trainees began a five-day friendship visit to the central city yesterday. — VNS Photos Công Thành
Viet Nam News


ĐÀ NẴNG — A Japan Coast Guard Force ship, the Kojima, with 45 crew members and 49 trainees started a five-day friendship visit to the central city today.

The training ship, the first of the Japan Coast Guard Force to visit Việt Nam this year, led by Colonel Hiroyuki Nanaura, will exchange experiences in search and rescue operations with the Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centre No 2 in Đà Nẵng.

As per the plan, the Japanese ship crew will play a friendly volleyball match with Việt Nam’s Coast Guard Force, Zone 2, in Quảng Nam Province.

The Kojima ship is visiting Đà Nẵng for the second time since 2013.

The visit aims to promote understanding and friendship among coast guard forces in Việt Nam and Japan.

The two countries are active members of the Regional Co-operation Agreement on Combating Piracy and Armed Robbery against Ships in Asia (ReCAAP) and Heads of Asian Coast Guard Agencies Meeting (HACGAM), and have closely co-operated to improve maritime law enforcement.

Currently, a ship of the Japan Maritime Self Defence Force, JSDS Shimokita (LST-4002), is participating in the Pacific Partnership 2016 (PP16), being held in Đà Nẵng from July 15 to 28.

In 2015, three ships of the Japan Coast Guard Force visited Việt Nam.

In 2014, Japanese Maritime Self-Defence Force ship JS Kunisaki also took part in the Pacific Partnership 2014.

The Kojima and its crew members will leave for Japan on Friday, and a farewell ceremony will be held at Tiên Sa Port on the same day. – VNS

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## William Hung

Air defence systems based on MANPADS are basically redundant for ships. Intercepting fighters or modern anti-ship missiles is outside the question. Heli armed with AshM has ranges well outside of those Igla-based missiles, even UAV like the S-100 variant used by China has a detection range well beyond the range of those Iglas. The truth is this system is redundant for a naval ship.

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## BoQ77

Let's think about TT-400TP without MANPADS, not with.
To find out, how many threats to be countered by MANPADS


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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> A creative way to paint a map of the south china sea with the 9 dash line represented as a cow's tongue.
> 
> View attachment 320579


Very nice man

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## William Hung

I have already given some example of threats that MANPADS cannot deal with.

OK so lets see what kind of threats that a TT-400TP can deal with:

- Helicopters flying <7km of the TT400: Heli armed with miniguns? Yeah sure but who would use them? even those modern mini anti-ship missiles compatible with a heli platform has longer range than Igla.

- UAV: most small UAVs, like tge S-100 I mentioned, can detect naval targets well outside the range of Igla, no need to mention bigger MALE drones.

- Anti-ship missiles: no need to comment.

There really is no *realistic* threats that those Igla-based system can deal with, hence why I said they are redundant for a naval platform.


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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> Air defence systems based on MANPADS are basically redundant for ships. Intercepting fighters or modern anti-ship missiles is outside the question. Heli armed with AshM has ranges well outside of those Igla-based missiles, even UAV like the S-100 variant used by China has a detection range well beyond the range of those Iglas. The truth is this system is redundant for a naval ship.


Well, at least it adds another layer of air defense against anti-ship missile or UAV.

Insignificantly maybe, but better have a little thing than none. Please remember that during wartime, the TT-400TP won't operate alone and it belongs to the third line of offensive.

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## William Hung

Silent Knight said:


> Well, at least it adds another layer of air defense against anti-ship missile or UAV.
> 
> Insignificantly maybe, but better have a little thing than none. Please remember that during wartime, the TT-400TP won't operate alone and it belongs to the third line of offensive.



Western manufactures also offer those MANPADS based system to customers (although they hardly use it themselves), like the Mistral for the Indonesian Sigma corvettes.....but I have not heard of any realistic threats that they can deal with...

Modern AshM and UAVs is beyond its capacity (e.g. even a small rotary based S-100 can detect naval targets beyond 20km).


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## pr1v4t33r

William Hung said:


> Western manufactures also offer those MANPADS based system to customers (although they hardly use it themselves), like the Mistral for the Indonesian Sigma corvettes.....but I have not heard of any realistic threats that they can deal with...



France still utilize mistral:sadral, on her Duplex frigate. It has a very limited role on air defense, yes, but we can improve it's effectiveness by adding CIWS.

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## Carlosa

pr1v4t33r said:


> France still utilize mistral:sadral, on her Duplex frigate. It has a very limited role on air defense, yes, but we can improve it's effectiveness by adding CIWS.



Good point, I would say that integrating it with the gun CIWS and the eyeball sensors its probably the best use for it as the picture below.

For a gunboat like the TT-400TP not much can be expected although another possibility could be to just have the Igla type missiles integrated in the ship combat systems as a first evolutionary step and then later replace the missile with a more advance one that can bring new capabilities, maybe the new domestic one under development.

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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> Western manufactures also offer those MANPADS based system to customers (although they hardly use it themselves), like the Mistral for the Indonesian Sigma corvettes.....but I have not heard of any realistic threats that they can deal with...
> 
> Modern AshM and UAVs is beyond its capacity (e.g. even a small rotary based S-100 can detect naval targets beyond 20km).


As I said, better have it than not having it and lose a layer of defense. When under attack, every weapon counts.

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## Carlosa

*This country could be the next winner in the South China Sea*
*http://finance.yahoo.com/news/country-could-next-winner-south-144946745.html*




(A Vietnamese naval soldier at Thuyen Chai Island in the Spratly archipelago.Quang Le/Reuters) 

China's lion-share claims to the resource-rich waters in the South China Sea took a huge blow earlier this month after the Permanent Court of Arbitration issued a landmark rulingdismissing China's "nine-dash line" territorial claim.

The court found that Beijing had violated the Philippines' economic and sovereign rights and concluded there was no legal basis for China's nine-dash line, which encompasses approximately 85% of the South China Sea.

While the PCA ruling is only binding between Beijing and Manila, it does, however, set a legal foundation by determining that the rules of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea take precedence over China's historic claims.

In short, if there is no "nine-dash line," other stakeholders in the South China Sea may be inspired to file lawsuits against China if Beijing refuses to compromise on access to the waters.

Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, the Philippines, Taiwan, and China all have claims in the South China Sea, making the region one of the most disputed areas on the planet.

On July 12, a panel of legal experts at the Center for Strategic and International Studies' sixth annual South China Sea conference commented on the effect of the decision on other claimants.

"Because it's invalid, will it encourage other states" to push back against China's claims, James Kraska, professor of oceans law and policy at the US Naval War College asked, referring to the nine-dash line. "I think so and I hope so," he told Business Insider in a question-and-answer session.

"It will have enormous impact on future jurisprudence and on the perceived legitimacy of other claims in the South China Sea and around the world," said Gregory Poling, CSIS fellow and director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative.

According to a report from financial market analysis firm BMI Research, Vietnam "is likely to be the key beneficiary from the spillover effects of the ruling."

Because of similarities in the PCA's ruling, Vietnam would most likely win in a maritime row against Beijing's claims in the Paracel Islands but would have to abandon all claims on Mischief Reef and Second Thomas Shoal since those areas fall under the Philippines' exclusive economic zone.

Vietnam would also have to withdraw troops from Alison Reef, Tennent Reef, and Cornwallis Reef in the Spratlys.

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## Viet

Banzai!

I am thinking to make a series of posts dedicated to our major partner country Japan.

dedicated especially for Chinese trollers here and elsewhere as well as state media, who repeatedly demand Japan to disappear from the South China Sea.

and for our lost brother Nihonjin













_A crew member of the Japan Coast Guard vessel (L) shakes hands with a representative of the Vietnam Coast Guard on July 25, 2016. _Photo: Tuoi Tre

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## Viet

I think we should expand our strategy. Why only offering a part of Camranh bay to the Russians, why not extend the offer to America and Japan?

Ok ok I know There are a lot of hesitations in Vietnam toward increasing cooperation in military with the United States. but not to Japan. The Japanese should establish a permanent footprint in Vietnam. Right now they do a lot in economic field. Also in culture, people to people exchange. Having a permanent sea port such as in Danang offers the Japan Imperial Fleets many benefits. Potentially deterring the Chinese from establishing an ADIZ and breaking any sea blockade in peace and war time.

@Carlosa I hope you don't mind if I bring your hometown into the discussion 


Beautiful cherry blossom festival in Danang, Vietnam.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> Banzai!
> 
> I am thinking to make a series of posts dedicated to our major partner country Japan.
> 
> dedicated especially for Chinese trollers here and elsewhere as well as state media, who repeatedly demand Japan to disappear from the South China Sea.
> 
> and for our lost brother Nihonjin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A crew member of the Japan Coast Guard vessel (L) shakes hands with a representative of the Vietnam Coast Guard on July 25, 2016. _Photo: Tuoi Tre




What happened to Nihonjin?

Source: http://soha.vn/bao-nga-viet-nam-du-dinh-mua-vai-tram-xe-tang-t-90ms-20160726100953936.htm

*Russian newspaper: Vietnam plans to buy several hundred tanks T-90MS*

*



*

Just recently, on the mass media appeared rumors about Vietnam could become buyers of military technology and equipment largest Russian armored. Stories that involve buying lots oftanks T-90MS.

According to experts, Vietnam plans to buy several dozen MBT this version, but in fact shipments will more than a few times. Information on by an anonymous source at the Group uralvagonzavod (Russia) provided after the meeting with the delegation of Vietnam.







T-90MS is the version for export based on the prototype T-90AM Proryv, it has been deeply modernized, making tactical prowess increases many times.

T-90MS weight of 49 tons and engine power up to 1,130 kW, Control systems and complexes are perfect sight, many processes are highly automated. 

The main armament of tanks is smoothbore gun 2A46M-5 125 mm size, has the ability to destroy targets at a distance up to 10 km (depending on the type of ammunition used).

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## Viet

@vtnsx

I have a suspect: a Chinese pdf brigade captured Nihonjin, pumping him full with the most powerful drug on this planet: made in China peaceful rise. That is not killing him but turning him into a zombie. His soul now lies on a poster with a name something with friend of China and Pakistan.

He needs our help.


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## Viet

Thanks for the $7.2 billions

At the special summit in Laos, Japan has given the money to 5 Mekong countries for infrastructure development: Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Burma. More is expected to come. The Japanese have put $200 billions in Asia infrastructure funds.

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## fadine

I have tried to gain access to this forum from many location of Japan, but without success, always being redirected to a different address. My guess is no Japanese in this forum.


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## William Hung

Of course, this forum never had any Japanese members here...zero, not even one.


Its funny how the former “samurai” now thinks he is a Chinese 



Sinopakfriend said:


> The strength of Chinese Soft Power is so immense that if channelled correctly *we* gain an even more positive boost than *we* already have.
> 
> With the development of...



https://defence.pk/threads/china’s-...s-image-rok-expert.441092/page-2#post-8505755

I hope the admins never find out and ban him, so we can continue reading his comedy.


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## Viet

Exercise with PT-76B and BTR-60 amphibious tanks. Retaking islands from enemy hand. I think we need more firepower. More warships more aircrafts more artilleries more men at sea.

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## Viet

Welcome to Vietnam!

2,000 men and women from three nations Vietnam, America and Japan take part in this year Pacific 2016. With US hospital ship USNS Mercy and Japan Landing ship Shimokita.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think we should expand our strategy. Why only offering a part of Camranh bay to the Russians, why not extend the offer to America and Japan?
> 
> Ok ok I know There are a lot of hesitations in Vietnam toward increasing cooperation in military with the United States. but not to Japan. The Japanese should establish a permanent footprint in Vietnam. Right now they do a lot in economic field. Also in culture, people to people exchange. Having a permanent sea port such as in Danang offers the Japan Imperial Fleets many benefits. Potentially deterring the Chinese from establishing an ADIZ and breaking any sea blockade in peace and war time.
> 
> @Carlosa I hope you don't mind if I bring your hometown into the discussion
> 
> 
> Beautiful cherry blossom festival in Danang, Vietnam.



By all means!!! I wish I could be there, I'm traveling in Thailand right now and next week I'll go to the Middle Kingdom Empire.  Depressing actually.



William Hung said:


> Of course, this forum never had any Japanese members here...zero, not even one.
> 
> 
> Its funny how the former “samurai” now thinks he is a Chinese
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/china’s-...s-image-rok-expert.441092/page-2#post-8505755
> 
> I hope the admins never find out and ban him, so we can continue reading his comedy.



Multiple personality disorder I think.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> By all means!!! I wish I could be there, I'm traveling in Thailand right now and next week I'll go to the Middle Kingdom Empire.  Depressing actually.
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple personality disorder I think.


Are you again on business trips?

If you got a chance, don't forget to take a picture of their future aircraft carriers, as we need to develop a strategy how to counter them 



fadine said:


> I have tried to gain access to this forum from many location of Japan, but without success, always being redirected to a different address. My guess is no Japanese in this forum.


PDF is probably banned in Japan. I have full sympathy for the Japanese, who show no interest at all to participate this forum. The same goes for the Koreans. No wonder, talking to Chinese posters here is like talking to the Great Wall of China. Luckily not all Chinese behave so in reality.

There is Japanese but his soul is captured.

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## vtnsx

William Hung said:


> Of course, this forum never had any Japanese members here...zero, not even one.
> 
> 
> Its funny how the former “samurai” now thinks he is a Chinese
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/china’s-...s-image-rok-expert.441092/page-2#post-8505755
> 
> I hope the admins never find out and ban him, so we can continue reading his comedy.



Wow, he talks like he has no backbone or balls. Is he becoming a woman? That is sad for a former "samurai".


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Are you again on business trips?
> .



Yes, this is my busy season.

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## Viet

Carlosa, have you posted Vietnam acquired Buk missiles? when Russia media such as Sputnik begins to report such a deal or a future deal or a possible deal then the rumor gets an interesting tough.


Đặc biệt, đích thân Đại sứ Nga tại Việt Nam, ông Konstantin Vasilievich Vnukov cũng đã nói về tương lai hệ thống Buk-М3 xuất hiện tại Việt Nam:

"Sự hợp tác trong lĩnh vực quân sự quốc phòng giữa Nga và Việt Nam đã phát triển trong hàng thập kỉ qua, và không bao giờ có những vấn đề trừng phạt hay cấm vận nào được đề ra cả.

Việc các bạn lựa chọn vũ khí nào là quyền quyết định của các bạn. Tôi vẫn thiên về một tương lai tươi sáng cho sự hiện diện của vũ khí Nga trên thị trường vũ khí Việt Nam".

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## dingyibvs

Viet said:


> Let's take Huawei Germany. The company pays slave wages. Including long working hours, command structure top to down, little to no pay for working overtime, discrimination of non-Chinese speakers, worse than with the Japanese.
> 
> But we are off topic.



Slaves don't get wages, they don't get to choose which company to work for either. If they don't like Huawei, don't work for them.



vtnsx said:


> Come work with me and I'll show you how we select steel. Otherwise, stfu and get out of this thread. I was talking to the other dude, why are you interfering? Does it pisses you off because I'm better than you and you are not? haha typical Chinese. You guys don't look at facts, you look at fantasy. Hhaha who needs to prove anything to you.



Still just assertions, no facts. I'm double degreed in electrical engineering and medicine, I think I'll pass on your offer. With that said, my Vietnamese girlfriend will make more than I do when she finishes residency, so I won't return the favor and say Viets are brainless


----------



## vtnsx

dingyibvs said:


> Slaves don't get wages, they don't get to choose which company to work for either. If they don't like Huawei, don't work for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Still just assertions, no facts. I'm double degreed in electrical engineering and medicine, I think I'll pass on your offer. With that said, my Vietnamese girlfriend will make more than I do when she finishes residency, so I won't return the favor and say Viets are brainless



Just an assertion? sure, so does your statement about your double degrees, EE and medicine. You could be some internet troll or loser with no girlfriend. LOL

It goes both ways. I don't care if you agree or don't. Not my problem. But good luck with your double degrees.


----------



## Viet

Vietnam made or modified multipurpose vehicles


Armor vehicle with mounted machine gun




Xe chống đạn RAM-2000 KM III.


With water cannon




Xe ô tô phun nước phòng chống bạo loạn.


Vehicle with mounted Vietnam made radar




Xe thông tin liên lạc bằng radar do Việt Nam sản xuất.





Các xe thông tin liên lạc bằng radar do Việt Nam sản xuất.



Fire fighting




Các xe chữa cháy và cứu hộ, cứu nạn.


With ladder




Xe bọc thép lắp hệ thống phóng thang.



Hummer with mounted machine gun




Xe chống đạn Hummer H2-LUX trang bị thêm súng máy.


Search and rescue 




Xe quân sự được cải hoán để phụ


----------



## Viet

Command vehicle







Communications


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, have you posted Vietnam acquired Buk missiles? when Russia media such as Sputnik begins to report such a deal or a future deal or a possible deal then the rumor gets an interesting tough.
> 
> 
> Đặc biệt, đích thân Đại sứ Nga tại Việt Nam, ông Konstantin Vasilievich Vnukov cũng đã nói về tương lai hệ thống Buk-М3 xuất hiện tại Việt Nam:
> 
> "Sự hợp tác trong lĩnh vực quân sự quốc phòng giữa Nga và Việt Nam đã phát triển trong hàng thập kỉ qua, và không bao giờ có những vấn đề trừng phạt hay cấm vận nào được đề ra cả.
> 
> Việc các bạn lựa chọn vũ khí nào là quyền quyết định của các bạn. Tôi vẫn thiên về một tương lai tươi sáng cho sự hiện diện của vũ khí Nga trên thị trường vũ khí Việt Nam".



I don't remember what I had posted before, but even the SIPRI report used to have 6 batteries of Buk-M2.

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## dingyibvs

vtnsx said:


> Just an assertion? sure, so does your statement about your double degrees, EE and medicine. You could be some internet troll or loser with no girlfriend. LOL
> 
> It goes both ways. I don't care if you agree or don't. Not my problem. But good luck with your double degrees.



I'm glad you finally admit that you're just making assertions. See, being honest isn't so hard, is it?


----------



## Han Patriot

dingyibvs said:


> I'm glad you finally admit that you're just making assertions. See, being honest isn't so hard, is it?


Chill bro. The Viets are harmless, I just hope they don't turn into an American pawn. They forgot how they were treated as slaves.


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I don't remember what I had posted before, but even the SIPRI report used to have 6 batteries of Buk-M2.


If I recalled you mentioned a battery of Buk is deployed to protect Hanoi? Don't remember what type M2 or M3. Sputnik says Vietnam wants to acquire M3. That is one of the most advanced anti aircraft missiles today. More accurate more dangerous than S-300. The Russians praise "one shot one kill". Or money back. The bear sells weapons like the Germans selling cars.

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## Viet

Su-27 fighter squadron reportedly receives a modern search and acquisition radar N001VE-Pero. The radar can search targets at a distance of 190 km, acquire/lock 6 aerial and 4 ground targets at any given time.

@Silent Knight

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> If I recalled you mentioned a battery of Buk is deployed to protect Hanoi? Don't remember what type M2 or M3. Sputnik says Vietnam wants to acquire M3. That is one of the most advanced anti aircraft missiles today. More accurate more dangerous than S-300. The Russians praise "one shot one kill". Or money back. The bear sells weapons like the Germans selling cars.



No, that was a Spyder battery in Hanoi.


----------



## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Su-27 fighter squadron reportedly receives a modern search and acquisition radar N001VE-Pero. The radar can search targets at a distance of 190 km, acquire/lock 6 aerial and 4 ground targets at any given time.



That's the latest version of the N001 radar. I have a feeling that the recently received MK2Vs also have that radar, it only makes sense.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No, that was a Spyder battery in Hanoi.


Ups 



Han Patriot said:


> Chill bro. The Viets are harmless, I just hope they don't turn into an American pawn. They forgot how they were treated as slaves.


Pawn or not pawn depends on how we see China, what threat you pose now and tomorrow.


----------



## cnleio

fadine said:


> I have tried to gain access to this forum from many location of Japan, but without success, always being redirected to a different address. My guess is no Japanese in this forum.


Sometimes i also can't access to PDF forum from China, it usually return me a error server page ... not like other Chinese members in foreign countries, sometimes i have the problem to visit the forum. I don't know where's the PDF server but it seems the network not good for Northeast Asia.


----------



## Carlosa

*China Is Bitter at Russia Over Lack of Support in the South China Sea Dispute*
M.K. Bhadrakumar reads the tea leaves
http://russia-insider.com/en/china-bitter-russia-over-lack-support-south-china-sea-dispute/ri15872
M.K. Bhadrakumar 


(Indian Punchline) 


10 hours ago | 



Originally appeared at *Indian Punchline
*
The scathing attack on Russian foreign policies in the Global Times newspaper on Sunday has no precedents. It goes way beyond the occasional sparring in a spirit of ‘glasnost’. Indeed, China-Russia Comprehensive Strategic Partnership of Coordination (as it is officially described) is not at all like what it appears. (Read my article in Asia TimesRussia-China entente – Lofty rhetoric, shifty discourse.)

The GT article marks a big departure from past Chinese criticism. A note of outright condemnation is appearing. The fundamentals of Russian foreign policies and diplomacy have been called into question.

There are pointed allegations that Russia undermines China’s core interests and seeks to extract “strategic room” out of China’s tensions with the US and Japan.

Russia is presented here as a mirror image of the US – harbouring hegemonic ambitions and imposing its own version of ‘colour revolutions’ in a drive to dominate Eurasia, Eurasian Economic Union and the SCO.

The article makes a hard-hitting reference to the tortuous history of the relations between the two countries to hark back to the vast Chinese territories that are still in Russian possession — if only to remind how gracious and stoical China has been.

Of course, from the Indian perspective, the article makes a stunning allegation that Russia eyes India as a counterweight to China in terms of a containment strategy:


Russia is also aiming at its own containment of China by using India, a key force in Russia’s eyes. Fostering another regional power to offset China’s growing influence is what both Russia and the US desire. India’s ambition to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group, which was foiled by some countries including China, was backed by both Russia and the US.

Evidently, at a time when tensions are rising in China-India relations, Russia’s pro-Indian leaning rankles in the Chinese mind. China cannot afford to overlook that it could be the honeypot of the Indian arms bazaar that largely attracts Russia. What explains this level of rancorous indignation?

To my mind, the principal reason could be that Beijing feels disillusioned with Moscow’s unhelpful stance apropos the Permanent Arbitration Tribunal’s recent award on the South China Sea.

We know that just hours before the award was announced at The Hague on July 12, Minister Plenipotentiary (holding ambassadorial rank) of the Chinese Embassy in Moscow Zhang Ziao had called on Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Igor Morgulov. The Russian readout merely said the two diplomats discussed “current bilateral and global issues”.

But it stands to reason that the Chinese diplomat conveyed Beijing’s expectations of Russian support apropos the forthcoming South China Sea award. However, for two full days, Moscow kept mum. Probably, the Chinese demarche went up all the way to the Kremlin for instructions.

At any rate, when the Russian reaction came, finally, it was not as a formal statement but instead in the Q&A following a press briefing on July 14 by Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakhavrova. The following excerpts are important:


Question: On July 12, the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague rendered a judgment on the jurisdiction of certain islands in China’s economic zone. What do you think about the decision, and what is Russia’s attitude towards China’s policy in the South China Sea?


Maria Zakharova: We would like to note the following in connection with the July 12 ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague concerning the well-known lawsuit filed by the Philippines. It is our position that the states involved in territorial disputes in these seas should honour the principle of the non-use of force, and that they should continue to search for a diplomatic settlement based on international law, mainly the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. They should act in accordance with the spirit of ASEAN and PRC documents, specifically, the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea and the guidelines for following the declaration that were coordinated in 2011.


We support ASEAN and PRC efforts to draft a code of conduct in the South China Sea. I will remind you that Russia is not involved in territorial disputes in that region, and that it has no intention of getting involved. We consider it a matter of principle not to side with any party. We believe that the concerned parties should conduct negotiations in a format they define. We also believe attempts to interfere in a resolution of territorial issues in the South China Sea by external parties to be counter-productive. We support the role of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in ensuring the rule of law during activities in the world’s oceans. Moreover, it is important that the provisions of this universal international treaty be applied consistently and in a way that will not jeopardise the integrity of the legal system stipulated by the convention.

Clearly, the remarks not only fell far short of an articulation of support for China, but rather clinically distanced Moscow from identifying with Beijing’s position. Furthermore, it underscored — not merely once but thrice — the centrality of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

The China-Russia Comprehensive Strategic Partnership of Coordination failed to pass the litmus test here. If the “forever” partnership expected the two big powers to be supportive of each other’s core interests, when the time came for Moscow to stand up and be counted as China’s friend, it scooted. The Chinese bitterness shows.

Beijing understands the Russian game plan to willy-nilly ingratiate itself back into favor with the West. A possible rapprochement between the US and Russia, which the Kremlin is desperately seeking before President Barack Obama leaves office, creates uneasiness in the Chinese mind.

Meanwhile, Beijing’s comfort level on the South China Sea situation as such has significantly risen. The Chinese diplomacy has rather successfully weathered a potentially ugly situation stemming from the July 12 award. The summit meetings of the ASEM and ASEAN in successive weeks refrained from criticising China.

Most important, the US is tamping down tensions. National Security Advisor Susan Rice is currently in Beijing. Quite obviously, Obama hopes to collect some substantial takeaway from his meeting with President Xi Jinping in early September during the G20 summit in Hangzhou, China, which will be his last encounter with the Chinese leader.

Moscow may have badly miscalculated on the likely geopolitical fallout of the July 12 award. The GT article is a stark reminder to the Russian side that its need of China is greater than the other way around. The article is here.

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## vtnsx

dingyibvs said:


> I'm glad you finally admit that you're just making assertions. See, being honest isn't so hard, is it?



Nah, I just think you really aren't educated on the laws of nature, physical things and the art of communication and social dynamics. I don't need to provide proof. Nobody cares. Get it?

You're empty inside. Is that why your VIET GF is going to pay for you? I hope she dumps you soon because of how useless you are. She would be more happy sleeping with guys like me. Unlike you, lol. 
You're clueless for a Double Majors. Don't forget TWO Degrees!! One in Electrical Engineering and MEDICINE! You are SO Brilliant! 
You don't need hardcore facts to justify your ignorance. Your speech is evidence of that. Did you pass grade 12 and Photoshoped your way through University to get your double majors? You must be one PROUD Chinese!

This is being honest. Not the way you think what honesty is, boy.


----------



## Viet

@cnleio

Have you read the article Carlosa posted above? and the article of global times, the propaganda mouthpiece of Ccp?

What happens to your number one brother Russia?

Ha ha ha

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> @cnleio
> 
> Have you read the article Carlosa posted above? and the article of global times, the propaganda mouthpiece of Ccp?
> 
> What happens to your number one brother Russia?
> 
> Ha ha ha


U like it ? The purpose of such article just make u happy, my friend.

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## vtnsx

cnleio said:


> U like it ? The purpose of such article just make u happy, my friend.



Yes, China is Ultra Powerful. The world cannot beat it. China can fly into space and colonize Mars. We get it. Tell us more.

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> U like it ? The purpose of such article just make u happy, my friend.


I think it is not nice at all when you slam the Russians for lacking support in the South China Sea. Russia is not your puppet.

@Barmaley

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## Viet

Though I think it makes sense of establishing a strategic missile defense shield against Chinese ballistic missile attacks against Vietnam homeland, doing concrete steps in this field would be very costly, and I don't think we can't afford it. Not now. 

Or there is creditable doubt of Chinese non-use of nuclear weapons.

Or we feel cannot deter Chinese aggression by conventional means.

speculations arises Vietnam could look for Israeli David's Sling after acquiring Spyder missile system.


Test firing David's Sling


----------



## cochine

two soldier in Sino - Vietnam war 1979-1990, unexpectedly have meet together after 32 years.

1984.





2016.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Su-27 fighter squadron reportedly receives a modern search and acquisition radar N001VE-Pero. The radar can search targets at a distance of 190 km, acquire/lock 6 aerial and 4 ground targets at any given time.


Not N001VE Pero. 

The upgrade package made it into Su-30MK standard, which mostly means that they use newer avionics and can fire the RVV-AE.

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## Nike

cnleio said:


> Sometimes i also can't access to PDF forum from China, it usually return me a error server page ... not like other Chinese members in foreign countries, sometimes i have the problem to visit the forum. I don't know where's the PDF server but it seems the network not good for Northeast Asia.



well, i had the same problem while in Sapporo last year


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Not N001VE Pero.
> 
> The upgrade package made it into Su-30MK standard, which mostly means that they use newer avionics and can fire the RVV-AE.


Ah ok 

Increasing the firepower of Su-27 with Rvv-AE missile (left)

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## Viet

Search and Rescue drill with crew members of USNS Mercy

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## Silent Knight

Meanwhile, at least two Su-30MK2Vs stay on quick reaction alert duty in every regiments.

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## striver44

Glad to hear it. A militarily strong vietnam will have a positive impact on fellow ASEAN members. for peace and stability in the region.

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## Viet

Peaceful pictures in Spratlys

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## Viet



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## Viet

Solar, wind generate electricity for the islands. vegetables, fish ensure a healthy daily meals. Plants producing fresh water.

And the islands welcome tourists 




























_



_

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## Viet



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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Though I think it makes sense of establishing a strategic missile defense shield against Chinese ballistic missile attacks against Vietnam homeland, doing concrete steps in this field would be very costly, and I don't think we can't afford it. Not now.
> 
> Or there is creditable doubt of Chinese non-use of nuclear weapons.
> 
> Or we feel cannot deter Chinese aggression by conventional means.
> 
> speculations arises Vietnam could look for Israeli David's Sling after acquiring Spyder missile system.
> 
> 
> Test firing David's Sling



Let me tell you, if Vietnam gets David's Sling, that will really be something, dual active radar seeker and infrared seeker at the same time. 300-400 km range. That's like the Israeli S-300-400. Top of the line missile.

After that, just add Arrow 3 (ballistic missile defence) and you are all set.

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## Viet

Carlosa, let's play the numbers. What do you think how much a strategic missile defence shield ABM would cost to cover the airspaces of Hanoi, Saigon, Camranh?

I think the investment must be huge: a network of long range search radars, probably 1,000 km in reachability, batteries of interceptors. plus many other components needed to operate ABM.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa, let's play the numbers. What do you think how much a strategic missile defence shield ABM would cost to cover the airspaces of Hanoi, Saigon, Camranh?
> 
> I think the investment must be huge: a network of long range search radars, probably 1,000 km in reachability, batteries of interceptors. plus many other components needed to operate ABM.



Its mainly the cost of the X band radars and then the intercepting missiles and the command and control. I don't remember now the cost of the Arrow 3 missile, but I don't think its more than 10 million a piece, probably less.

If you want to go American, then we are talking THAADS or AEGIS Ashore batteries, that's between 800 million to 1 billion per battery. So we are talking 3 batteries, 3 billion will do which is very feasible, but the million dollar question is if USA / Israel will be willing to sell the stuff.

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## Carlosa

A nice video of naval training drills:

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its mainly the cost of the X band radars and then the intercepting missiles and the command and control. I don't remember now the cost of the Arrow 3 missile, but I don't think its more than 10 million a piece, probably less.
> 
> If you want to go American, then we are talking THAADS or AEGIS Ashore batteries, that's between 800 million to 1 billion per battery. So we are talking 3 batteries, 3 billion will do which is very feasible, but the million dollar question is if USA / Israel will be willing to sell the stuff.


Ok I think we could make two of the most critical parts of the ABM: x-band radars and control software. We are buying two NEC x-band earth observation satellites from Japan. As part of the $1.2 billion deal, Japan will provide all necessary training to Vietnamese engineers and technicians. The people of Viettel are very capable. They could be sent to Japan for learning, they could make later the x-band radars and the control/command software for the ABM. I think we can consider if establishing a strategic missile force makes sense.


NEC x-band satelitte

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## vtnsx

Just heard the Russians are building a new S-500


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> Just heard the Russians are building a new S-500


the Russians don't put their most advanced missile system on sale. I think we should try to develop our own missiles.


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Ok I think we could make two of the most critical parts of the ABM: x-band radars and control software. We are buying two NEC x-band earth observation satellites from Japan. As part of the $1.2 billion deal, Japan will provide all necessary training to Vietnamese engineers and technicians. The people of Viettel are very capable. They could be sent to Japan for learning, they could make later the x-band radars and the control/command software for the ABM. I think we can consider if establishing a strategic missile force makes sense.
> 
> 
> NEC x-band satelitte


Bro, are you serious? Please don't end up like the bragging Indy, learn how to make a simple radar first.


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## MacanJawa

Han Patriot said:


> Bro, are you serious? Please don't end up like the bragging Indy, learn how to make a simple radar first.



i agree with this guy, make simple first and move to improved then go to advanced radar

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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Bro, are you serious? Please don't end up like the bragging Indy, learn how to make a simple radar first.


We reproduce radars, develop improved radars, make new radars since a decade.

Viettel short range radar VRS-M2d



































Vietnam made RV-02 medium range UHF acquisition radar

Just a repost. You may check for more in this thread.


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## AViet

The radar used to shot down B52 in "12 days and night" in 1972 on Hanoi air can be considered an unique Vietnamese product, because the Soviet made original one had been made useless by the US. Possibly at that time, the Vietnamese improved radar was the only one in the world which can detect B52 effectively.

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## Viet

AViet said:


> The radar used to shot down B52 in "12 days and night" in 1972 on Hanoi air can be considered an unique Vietnamese product, because the Soviet made original one had been made useless by the US. Possibly at that time, the Vietnamese improved radar was the only one in the world which can detect B52 effectively.


Hey good info. Have you got details on the improved radar?


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## AViet

Wiki about "chiến dịch Điện biên phủ trên không" in Vietnamese.


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## fadine

Vietnam begin to produce some parts of the Spyder missile systems.

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## Viet

85 mm artillery, a part of island defence artillery corps

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## Silent Knight

Ka-28 ASW helicopter, 954th Naval Aviation Brigade. This particular one was modernized in Sevastopol two years ago.

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## Viet

T-62 tank with 115 mm main cannon

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## MarveL

*South China Sea: Vietnam airport screens hacked*



_Noi Bai Airport in Hanoi broadcast unscheduled messages on Friday
_
Flight display screens at Vietnam's two largest airports were hacked to show messages criticising Vietnam's claims of territory in the South China Sea.Vietnam's transport ministry said a Chinese hacker was responsible.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36927674


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## Viet

For defense of islands every cannon matters.

T-34 with 85 mm main cannon


----------



## Viet

*Bell Helicopter completes 412EPI demo tour in Vietnam*
By *Terry Spruce*July 29, 2016 10:42








Bell Helicopter has completed a demo tour with the Bell 412EPI in Vietnam. The demo was organised with the support of the Vietnam Helicopter Corporation (VNH).

“Bell Helicopter continues to pursue growing opportunities in the Vietnamese market, and we see potential for our modern, multi-mission capable aircraft in this region.”

Sameer Rehman, Bell Helicopter’s managing director of Asia Pacific said: “Bell Helicopter continues to pursue growing opportunities in the Vietnamese market, and we see potential for our modern, multi-mission capable aircraft in this region. Bell Helicopter intends to be an important part of the US and Vietnam relationship and we were very pleased to strengthen our cooperation with VNH and demonstrate the operational versatility of the Bell 412EPI.”


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## Viet

A mini surveillance UAV

Type VB-01, digital camera 600 TVL 12x zoom, max altitude 3,500 m, top speed 120 kmh, operating radius 20 km, max endurance 90 minutes.


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## Viet

Domestic weapon factory Z111 is ready to make the next generation of Galil rifles 31/32. A powerful Galil machine gun: Galil-N. Apparently we have bought the license of Galil-N from Israel too, after acquiring the license for Galil-31/32.


Galil-32





Galil-N


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## Silent Knight

Looks like another one got new paint job, aside from the 6004.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Looks like another one got new paint job, aside from the 6004.


I would prefer a more aggressive color than just that peaceful blue, so gray in dark green 

have you heard anything when the airforce will get new flying asset?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> I would prefer a more aggressive color than just that peaceful blue, so gray in dark green
> 
> have you heard anything when the airforce will get new flying asset?


We love peace, why would you choose aggressive paint scheme? 

VPAF is likely to get new toys in 2017.

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## Viet

the Marine Corps in exercise

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## Carlosa

*'Give them a bloody nose': Xi pressed for stronger South China Sea response*




August 1, 2016

https://www.yahoo.com/news/them-bloody-nose-xi-pressed-stronger-south-china-232358640.html




People watch a TV news broadcast about the South China Sea outside a shopping mall in Beijing, China July 16, 2016. CHINA REUTERS/Thomas Peter/File Photo
By Ben Blanchard and Benjamin Kang Lim

BEIJING (Reuters) - China's leadership is resisting pressure from elements within the military for a more forceful response to an international court ruling against Beijing's claims in the South China Sea, sources said, wary of provoking a clash with the United States.

China refused to participate in the case overseen by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague.

It denounced the emphatic July 12 ruling in favor of the Philippines as a farce that had no legal basis and part of an anti-China plot cooked up in Washington.

The ruling has been followed in China by a wave of nationalist sentiment, scattered protests and strongly worded editorials in state media.

So far, Beijing has not shown any sign of wanting to take stronger action. Instead, it has called for a peaceful resolution through talks at the same time as promising to defend Chinese territory.

But some elements within China's increasingly confident military are pushing for a stronger - potentially armed - response aimed at the United States and its regional allies, according to interviews with four sources with close military and leadership ties.

"The People's Liberation Army is ready," one source with ties to the military told Reuters.

"We should go in and give them a bloody nose like Deng Xiaoping did to Vietnam in 1979," the source said, referring to China's brief invasion of Vietnam to punish Hanoi for forcing Beijing's ally the Khmer Rouge from power in Cambodia.

The sources requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

President Xi Jinping has assiduously courted and thoroughly cemented his leadership over the PLA and faces no serious challenges to his command.

While he is overseeing sweeping military reforms to improve the PLA's ability to win wars, he has said China needs a stable external environment as it deals with its own development issues, including a slowing economy. And few people expect any significant move ahead of Xi's hosting of a G20 summit in September.

But the hardened response to The Hague ruling from some elements of the military increases the risk that any provocative or inadvertent incidents in the South China Sea could escalate into a more serious clash.

MILITARY "HARDENED"

Another source with ties to the leadership described the mood in the PLA as hawkish.

"The United States will do what it has to do. We will do what we have to do," the source said. "The entire military side has been hardened. It was a huge loss of face," he said, declining further comment.

Chinese Defence Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun, asked whether the PLA was pushing for a stronger response, repeated that the armed forces would resolutely defend China's territory and maritime rights, and peace and stability, while dealing with any threats or challenges.

Retired military officers and army-linked academics have pushed home a strongly martial message.

"The Chinese military will step up and fight hard and China will never submit to any country on matters of sovereignty," Liang Fang, a professor at the military-run National Defence University, wrote on his Weibo microblog about the ruling.

It is not clear exactly what steps military hardliners are considering.

Much attention has been focused around the potential establishment of an Air Defence Identification Zone (ADIZ) for the South China Sea, which would require international aircraft to identify themselves to Chinese authorities.

Other options floated by those linked to the PLA include putting missiles on bombers patrolling the South China Sea capable of hitting targets in the Philippines or Vietnam.

Yue Gang, a retired colonel, said China's announcement promising regular air patrols over the region showed it was seeking to deny the U.S. air superiority afforded by aircraft carriers. China should be confident enough to provoke an incident and drive the U.S. out, he added.

"China is not intimidated by U.S. carriers and is brave enough to touch off an inadvertent confrontation," Yue wrote on his Weibo account.

China's military build-up in the region looks set to quicken regardless of any action.

"We must make preparations for a long-term fight and take this as a turning point in our South China Sea military strategy," Li Jinming of the South China Sea Institute at China's Xiamen University wrote in the Chinese academic journal Southeast Asian Studies.


WARY OF CLASH

Despite the saber rattling, there have been no firm military moves that could cause an escalation of tensions. Diplomats and sources said the Chinese leadership was well aware of the dangers of a clash.

"They're on the back foot. They're very worried by the international reaction," said one senior Beijing-based diplomat, citing conversations with Chinese officials.

"They are genuine about wanting to get talks back on track. The leadership will have to think long and hard about where to go next."

Within China's armed forces there is a recognition that China would come off worst in a face-off with the United States.

"Our navy cannot take on the Americans. We do not have that level of technology yet. The only people who would suffer would be ordinary Chinese," said the source with ties to the military.

Those voices appeared to have the upper hand for now, the source said, pointing to a realization that the 1979 border war with Vietnam did not go as well for China as the propaganda machine would like people to believe.

Even setting up an ADIZ, like the one Beijing set up over the East China Sea in 2013 to anger from the United States, Japan and others, would be difficult to enforce given the distance from the mainland.

China has repeatedly said it has the right to set up an ADIZ but that the decision depends on the level of threat it faces.

A second source with leadership ties put it bluntly: "War is unlikely".

"But we will continue to conduct military exercises," the source said. "(We) expect U.S. naval vessels to continue to come," and "miscalculation cannot be ruled out".

Foreign Minister Wang Yi has stressed the importance of dialogue, saying it now was the time to return things to the "right track" and to "turn the page" on the ruling.

The United States has responded positively to these overtures, sending U.S. National Security Adviser Susan Rice to China this week with a call for calm.

Washington is also using quiet diplomacy to persuade other regional players not to move aggressively to capitalize on the ruling.

China has been angered by U.S. freedom of navigation patrols in the South China Sea, but its forces have responded only by shadowing U.S. vessels and warning them, showing China's unwillingness to goad the U.S. military unnecessarily, according to Western and Asian diplomats.

China is also wary of any incident overshadowing the G20 summit in Hangzhou in September, the highlight of this year's diplomatic calendar for Xi when he will be host to the leaders of most of the world’s economically most powerful countries, the sources said.

The Beijing-based diplomat said it was more likely China would choose the period between the end of the G20 and the U.S. presidential election in November to make any move.

"But that is a misjudgment if China thinks the United States will just sit back and do nothing," the diplomat said.

(Editing by Lincoln Feast)


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam has an eye on the sky with new radar station*
By Toan Dao
August 1, 2016 | 10:16 am GMT+7


The second radar station on Son Tra Island, Da Nang. Photo courtesy of Vietnam Government Portal


*The new station will enhance the country's ability to track aircraft in its air space.*



Vietnam Air Traffic Management Corp. formally fired up a second radar station in the central city of Da Nang on Sunday in an effort to boost surveillance and protect the country’s sovereignty.

Vietnam already has a military surveillance radar station on Son Tra Island, dubbed the “Indochina Magical Eye”, which covers hundreds of kilometers of the South China Sea, known in Vietnam as the East Sea.

A radar data processing system was also put into operation at a flight management center in Da Nang the same day, the government portal said in a statement.

The secondary surveillance system on Son Tra, an island off Da Nang, covers a radius of 450km, while the primary radar system can detect objects at a range of 150 km.

The secondary system detects and measures the position of an aircraft, such as range and bearing, and requests additional information from the aircraft itself such as its identity and altitude. Meanwhile, the primary system only measures the range and bearing of targets by detecting reflected radio signals.


Air traffic control centers in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City and Da Nang have been integrated to receive and process data from the new radar station on Son Tra and other radar stations in the central region to enhance the management of aircraft traveling to and from Vietnamese air space.

The new radar station on Son Tra also supports air traffic management at airports in Hue and Quang Nam provinces, the statement said.

The radar station and processing system were supplied by Spanish IT and defense systems company Indra Sistermas.




-//-

By Viet

Can't post picture of the new second surveillance 450 km long range radar. Will try later, but I got picture of the first 150 km medium range surveillance radar on Son Tra.












Ok That is the second radar

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## cnleio

"TianQing-2016" Sino-Vietnam border anti-terror exercise

7月28日，演练现场边防官兵围剿逃窜到中越边境的“恐怖分子”。当日，在中越边境天保口岸，中国云南省文山州公安边防支队、天保边防检查站与越南河江省边防部队在中越“天保—清水”口岸及其附近区域举行了中越“天清—2016”联合反恐演练。旨在应对当前世界恐怖主义活动日趋严峻的形式，为中越边境打击恐怖主义活动的合作建立了新的应急机制，使双方联合打击恐怖主义的沟通渠道更为畅通。 中新社记者 李进红 摄

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Vietnam has an eye on the sky with new radar station*
> By Toan Dao
> August 1, 2016 | 10:16 am GMT+7
> 
> 
> The second radar station on Son Tra Island, Da Nang. Photo courtesy of Vietnam Government Portal
> 
> 
> *The new station will enhance the country's ability to track aircraft in its air space.*
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Air Traffic Management Corp. formally fired up a second radar station in the central city of Da Nang on Sunday in an effort to boost surveillance and protect the country’s sovereignty.
> 
> Vietnam already has a military surveillance radar station on Son Tra Island, dubbed the “Indochina Magical Eye”, which covers hundreds of kilometers of the South China Sea, known in Vietnam as the East Sea.
> 
> A radar data processing system was also put into operation at a flight management center in Da Nang the same day, the government portal said in a statement.
> 
> The secondary surveillance system on Son Tra, an island off Da Nang, covers a radius of 450km, while the primary radar system can detect objects at a range of 150 km.
> 
> The secondary system detects and measures the position of an aircraft, such as range and bearing, and requests additional information from the aircraft itself such as its identity and altitude. Meanwhile, the primary system only measures the range and bearing of targets by detecting reflected radio signals.
> 
> 
> Air traffic control centers in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City and Da Nang have been integrated to receive and process data from the new radar station on Son Tra and other radar stations in the central region to enhance the management of aircraft traveling to and from Vietnamese air space.
> 
> The new radar station on Son Tra also supports air traffic management at airports in Hue and Quang Nam provinces, the statement said.
> 
> The radar station and processing system were supplied by Spanish IT and defense systems company Indra Sistermas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -//-
> 
> By Viet
> 
> Can't post picture of the new second surveillance 450 km long range radar. Will try later, but I got picture of the first 150 km medium range surveillance radar on Son Tra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok That is the second radar



Very nice! One correction to the article. Son Tra is not an island, its a peninsula right next to the city.
The 3 original radars were built by the Americans during the war.



Viet said:


> The radar station and processing system were supplied by Spanish IT and defense systems company Indra Sistermas.



Wow, very interesting. I think this is the first military sale from Spain to Vietnam.



Carlosa said:


> *'Give them a bloody nose': Xi pressed for stronger South China Sea response*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> August 1, 2016
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/them-bloody-nose-xi-pressed-stronger-south-china-232358640.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People watch a TV news broadcast about the South China Sea outside a shopping mall in Beijing, China July 16, 2016. CHINA REUTERS/Thomas Peter/File Photo
> By Ben Blanchard and Benjamin Kang Lim
> 
> BEIJING (Reuters) - China's leadership is resisting pressure from elements within the military for a more forceful response to an international court ruling against Beijing's claims in the South China Sea, sources said, wary of provoking a clash with the United States.
> 
> China refused to participate in the case overseen by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague.
> 
> It denounced the emphatic July 12 ruling in favor of the Philippines as a farce that had no legal basis and part of an anti-China plot cooked up in Washington.
> 
> The ruling has been followed in China by a wave of nationalist sentiment, scattered protests and strongly worded editorials in state media.
> 
> So far, Beijing has not shown any sign of wanting to take stronger action. Instead, it has called for a peaceful resolution through talks at the same time as promising to defend Chinese territory.
> 
> But some elements within China's increasingly confident military are pushing for a stronger - potentially armed - response aimed at the United States and its regional allies, according to interviews with four sources with close military and leadership ties.
> 
> "The People's Liberation Army is ready," one source with ties to the military told Reuters.
> 
> "We should go in and give them a bloody nose like Deng Xiaoping did to Vietnam in 1979," the source said, referring to China's brief invasion of Vietnam to punish Hanoi for forcing Beijing's ally the Khmer Rouge from power in Cambodia.
> 
> The sources requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.
> 
> President Xi Jinping has assiduously courted and thoroughly cemented his leadership over the PLA and faces no serious challenges to his command.
> 
> While he is overseeing sweeping military reforms to improve the PLA's ability to win wars, he has said China needs a stable external environment as it deals with its own development issues, including a slowing economy. And few people expect any significant move ahead of Xi's hosting of a G20 summit in September.
> 
> But the hardened response to The Hague ruling from some elements of the military increases the risk that any provocative or inadvertent incidents in the South China Sea could escalate into a more serious clash.
> 
> MILITARY "HARDENED"
> 
> Another source with ties to the leadership described the mood in the PLA as hawkish.
> 
> "The United States will do what it has to do. We will do what we have to do," the source said. "The entire military side has been hardened. It was a huge loss of face," he said, declining further comment.
> 
> Chinese Defence Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun, asked whether the PLA was pushing for a stronger response, repeated that the armed forces would resolutely defend China's territory and maritime rights, and peace and stability, while dealing with any threats or challenges.
> 
> Retired military officers and army-linked academics have pushed home a strongly martial message.
> 
> "The Chinese military will step up and fight hard and China will never submit to any country on matters of sovereignty," Liang Fang, a professor at the military-run National Defence University, wrote on his Weibo microblog about the ruling.
> 
> It is not clear exactly what steps military hardliners are considering.
> 
> Much attention has been focused around the potential establishment of an Air Defence Identification Zone (ADIZ) for the South China Sea, which would require international aircraft to identify themselves to Chinese authorities.
> 
> Other options floated by those linked to the PLA include putting missiles on bombers patrolling the South China Sea capable of hitting targets in the Philippines or Vietnam.
> 
> Yue Gang, a retired colonel, said China's announcement promising regular air patrols over the region showed it was seeking to deny the U.S. air superiority afforded by aircraft carriers. China should be confident enough to provoke an incident and drive the U.S. out, he added.
> 
> "China is not intimidated by U.S. carriers and is brave enough to touch off an inadvertent confrontation," Yue wrote on his Weibo account.
> 
> China's military build-up in the region looks set to quicken regardless of any action.
> 
> "We must make preparations for a long-term fight and take this as a turning point in our South China Sea military strategy," Li Jinming of the South China Sea Institute at China's Xiamen University wrote in the Chinese academic journal Southeast Asian Studies.
> 
> 
> WARY OF CLASH
> 
> Despite the saber rattling, there have been no firm military moves that could cause an escalation of tensions. Diplomats and sources said the Chinese leadership was well aware of the dangers of a clash.
> 
> "They're on the back foot. They're very worried by the international reaction," said one senior Beijing-based diplomat, citing conversations with Chinese officials.
> 
> "They are genuine about wanting to get talks back on track. The leadership will have to think long and hard about where to go next."
> 
> Within China's armed forces there is a recognition that China would come off worst in a face-off with the United States.
> 
> "Our navy cannot take on the Americans. We do not have that level of technology yet. The only people who would suffer would be ordinary Chinese," said the source with ties to the military.
> 
> Those voices appeared to have the upper hand for now, the source said, pointing to a realization that the 1979 border war with Vietnam did not go as well for China as the propaganda machine would like people to believe.
> 
> Even setting up an ADIZ, like the one Beijing set up over the East China Sea in 2013 to anger from the United States, Japan and others, would be difficult to enforce given the distance from the mainland.
> 
> China has repeatedly said it has the right to set up an ADIZ but that the decision depends on the level of threat it faces.
> 
> A second source with leadership ties put it bluntly: "War is unlikely".
> 
> "But we will continue to conduct military exercises," the source said. "(We) expect U.S. naval vessels to continue to come," and "miscalculation cannot be ruled out".
> 
> Foreign Minister Wang Yi has stressed the importance of dialogue, saying it now was the time to return things to the "right track" and to "turn the page" on the ruling.
> 
> The United States has responded positively to these overtures, sending U.S. National Security Adviser Susan Rice to China this week with a call for calm.
> 
> Washington is also using quiet diplomacy to persuade other regional players not to move aggressively to capitalize on the ruling.
> 
> China has been angered by U.S. freedom of navigation patrols in the South China Sea, but its forces have responded only by shadowing U.S. vessels and warning them, showing China's unwillingness to goad the U.S. military unnecessarily, according to Western and Asian diplomats.
> 
> China is also wary of any incident overshadowing the G20 summit in Hangzhou in September, the highlight of this year's diplomatic calendar for Xi when he will be host to the leaders of most of the world’s economically most powerful countries, the sources said.
> 
> The Beijing-based diplomat said it was more likely China would choose the period between the end of the G20 and the U.S. presidential election in November to make any move.
> 
> "But that is a misjudgment if China thinks the United States will just sit back and do nothing," the diplomat said.
> 
> (Editing by Lincoln Feast)



Have to be careful and ready after September.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very nice! One correction to the article. Son Tra is not an island, its a peninsula right next to the city.
> The 3 original radars were built by the Americans during the war.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, very interesting. I think this is the first military sale from Spain to Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> Have to be careful and ready after September.


Ok got it. I believe the range of the new radar (450 km) is not too bad, but it falls a bit too short to cover the entire sea up to the Philippines. About 1,400 km. We need vessels having surveillance radars on them.







What do you think coming after September?

China deletes the word "peaceful" from peaceful rising, only rising remains 

I hope too we see more business with Spain. 

Ole

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ok got it. I believe the range of the new radar (450 km) is not too bad, but it falls a bit too short to cover the entire sea up to the Philippines. About 1,400 km. We need vessels having surveillance radars on them.
> 
> View attachment 322419
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think coming after September?
> 
> China deletes the word "peaceful" from peaceful rising, only rising remains
> 
> I hope too we see more business with Spain.
> 
> Ole



The only radars that can cover 1400 km are the big X band radars for ballistic defence and the OTH radars. Those are pretty big projects.

The G20 meeting in September is in China, so they will behave until that time, afterwards is a risky time, particularly While USA is busy with the election.



Viet said:


> Ok got it. I believe the range of the new radar (450 km) is not too bad, but it falls a bit too short to cover the entire sea up to the Philippines. About 1,400 km. We need vessels having surveillance radars on them.Ole



Also, don't forget about the curvature of the Earth, 450 km range is only for high altitude targets. The X Band radars have a long range, but that's to detect ballistic missiles coming from very high altitude. If you want to cover the sea, those radars are not going to do anything for you. You need to have radars in other locations that are much more forward deployed or to use AWACS or radar satellites.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The only radars that can cover 1400 km are the big X band radars for ballistic defence and the OTH radars. Those are pretty big projects.
> 
> The G20 meeting in September is in China, so they will behave until that time, afterwards is a risky time, particularly While USA is busy with the election.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, don't forget about the curvature of the Earth, 450 km range is only for high altitude targets. The X Band radars have a long range, but that's to detect ballistic missiles coming from very high altitude. If you want to cover the sea, those radars are not going to do anything for you. You need to have radars in other locations that are much more forward deployed or to use AWACS or radar satellites.


I doubt the chinese begin a war, but sure, we must calculate with everythng.

we have license and technology to produce en masse antiship missile Kct-15, a variant of Kh-35. why don´t we pack them on quad launchers, on a truck, and place them at strategic points in case of crisis?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I doubt the chinese begin a war, but sure, we must calculate with everythng.
> 
> we have license and technology to produce en masse antiship missile Kct-15, a variant of Kh-35. why don´t we pack them on quad launchers, on a truck, and place them at strategic points in case of crisis?



When in doubt, better safe than sorry.

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## Viet

Vietnam made P19 radar, range 260 km

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## Viet

a sensitive island, in the past only open for Vietnamese. the island lies close to China in the Gulf of Tonkin, now open for all foreign tourists: 

Đảo Cô Tô

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## Carlosa

*Will Vietnam File a South China Sea Case Against China?*
Hanoi may yet take Beijing to court. 

http://thediplomat.com/2016/08/will-vietnam-file-a-south-china-sea-case-against-china/





By Shawn W. Crispin
August 03, 2016

Will Vietnam follow the Philippines in legally challenging through international arbitration China’s claim to territories it contests in the South China Sea (SCS)? Weeks after The Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration’s landmark ruling on July 12, an international law based decision that delegitimized most of China’s expansive claims in its controversial “nine-dash line” map for the maritime area, Vietnam’s Communist Party leaders are under rising political pressure to leverage the precedent to press its own claims over the contested Paracel archipelago.

Vietnam’s foreign ministry welcomed the tribunal’s highly anticipated ruling, saying in a statement that it “strongly supports” dispute resolution in the SCS through “peaceful measures, including diplomatic and legal procedures.” The statement also reaffirmed Vietnam’s claim to the two archipelagos (the Spratlys and the Paracels) under the 1982 United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). State media have since published a series of comments by local officials and experts who have argued for filing a similar arbitration suit against China at the Hague.

Legal experts say that the tribunal’s ruling has fortified Vietnam’s position vis-à-vis China. First, the decision found China’s nine-dash line map based on so-called “historic rights” over islands and features in the South China Sea incompatible with UNCLOS and without legal basis. Second, the tribunal found that none of the contested features in the Spratly archipelago legally constitute “islands,” thereby nullifying China’s claim of a 200 mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) extending from the features it controls in the disputed island chain. Vietnam does not claim 200 mile EEZs in either the Spratlys or Paracels.

Tran Cong Truc, former head of Vietnam’s border affairs committee, wrote on July 22 in state newspaper _Giao Duc_that the ruling provided sufficient legal grounds for Vietnam to bring China to international court. While the PCA’s ruling undermined China’s EEZ claims in the Spratlys, Truc wrote that the same legal argument about what constitutes an “island” could be used to challenge China’s 200 mile EEZ claim over the Paracels. (The Paracels were not covered in the Philippines’ complaint.) Truc also argued Vietnam could take legal action against China’s persistent abuse of its fishermen, including cases of murder and sunken vessels, in the contested archipelago.

The former senior official at the same time advised caution, reflecting the Communist Party leadership’s reluctance to overtly confront Beijing. “As to when Vietnam should do this, we need to think very carefully, taking into account the political climate and environment we are facing,” Truc wrote. “Vietnam has to think, ‘would taking legal action against China increase tensions’? … For now no court is more powerful than the court of international opinion. This court has caused China much more tension and frustration than any legal arena that China has refused to take part [in].”

If Beijing accepted the legal basis of the decision, then there would no longer be any overlapping areas between Vietnam’s central coast-based EEZ and China’s nine-dash line map, according to analysts. China has so far been defiant against the non-binding ruling, including the decision legally relevant to the Paracels that “the Spratly Islands cannot generate maritime zones collectively as a unit.” China used its 200 mile claimed EEZ off the Paracels to justify the placement of its HD-981 oil rig into Vietnamese claimed waters in mid- 2014, sparking a crisis that led to fatal anti-China rioting in central Vietnam and a sharp deterioration in bilateral ties.

“Early signals indicate that China does not plan to retreat from claiming historic rights within the Nine-Dash Line, which likely include entitlement to fisheries and hydrocarbon resources,” International Crisis Group analyst Yanmei Xie wrote in a commentary. “Its claim to internal waters suggests China may consider drawing a baseline around the entirety of the Spratly island chain, claiming internal waters within the baseline and maritime entitlement outward from it.”

Days before the verdict, Vietnamese officials accused China’s coastguard of sinking one of its fishing boats near the Paracel Islands. Reports said the fishermen spent hours in the water before another Vietnamese fishing vessel was permitted to rescue them. In a separate incident days after the ruling, Vietnamese border patrol vessels chased six Chinese fishing boats out of waters off the coast of central Quang Binh province, also near the Paracels. Vietnamese state media reports cited the exact latitude and longitude of the alleged incursion to be ten miles inside the line of the recognized common fishing area.

China’s perceived aggression before and after the PCA ruling have brought activists and apparatchiks into nationalistic alignment. Nguyen Thein Nhan, a politburo member and president of the pro-government Vietnam Fatherland Front, told the National Assembly on July 20 that the public is increasingly concerned over Chinese harassment of Vietnamese fishermen in the country’s traditional fishing grounds and that the government needs to take “urgent actions” to contend with Chinese expansionism and militarization in the disputed archipelagos. Nhan portrayed China’s recent acts as “serious violations” of national sovereignty.

That view was amplified by Le Cong Dinh, a prominent human rights lawyer and former political prisoner. “The PCA ruling puts the Vietnamese government and Communist Party in a difficult position: from now on they can no longer do what they wish, which is to hold bilateral talks with China in order to resolve maritime disputes,” Dinh said in a recent commentary. “As reflected in the PCA ruling, resolving SCS disputes and starting legal proceedings against China has become an international issue. This is what the Vietnamese people want and the Vietnamese Communist Party and government must listen to their demand.”

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## cnleio

CCP said:


> You know China has many ways to wipe out viet from the planet earth.
> 1. destroy all your electricity plants,dams,roads and ports.
> 2. neutron bomb.
> 3.redirect rivers that flow to viet.
> .....etc


Take easy, pls here is Vietnam military news we'd better avoid quarrel. Said these to Mr @Viet just make no sence.

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## cnleio

@Hu Songshan @waz 
Pls clean some aggressive posts in this thread, thank you very much !

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## waz

Do not troll please.

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## Viet

Yes or No?

Russia media reports Vietnam land army is to receive 200 x T-90 tanks MS series. Forming the first modern panzer division.

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## Viet

Originated in the USSR, deployed during the Vietnam war, continue to be a part of aerial defense


SA-2 surface-to-air missile





SA-3 surface-to-air missile


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> The G20 meeting in September is in China, so they will behave until that time, afterwards is a risky time, particularly While USA is busy with the election.
> .



Few months are too short for a long-term job. "Prepare for a possibly conflict"
But it's still good for hardening a job started thousands years ago.

China wouldn't give the reason for US, India, Japan, SK ... to donate weapons to Vietnam

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## Viet

The first private military museum of Vietnam. Thanks to Robert Taylor, a Briton. a private collection over 50 years. Probably the largest of this kind in the world. as many as 2,500 historic weapons are displayed. besides, army custumes, flags, etc.


Vietnam. national hero Quang Trung (1753-1792), leading vietnamese army to victory over the Manchu army.







british army







mongolian army

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## Viet

Robert Taylor and his wife

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## Viet

weapon pieces displayed in museum

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## Viet



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## Viet

Sea Platforms
*Vietnamese amphibious force trains 'island recapture'
Richard D Fisher Jr, Washington DC* - IHS 

Jane's Defence Weekly 
03 August 2016






The naval infantry force of the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) has conducted an exercise simulating the recapture of an island. This image of the drill, which likely took place in mid-July, shows a VPN Polnochny-class tank landing ship deploying a PT-76 light amphibious tank. Source: Via QPVN


The naval infantry force of the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) has conducted an exercise simulating the recapture of an island: a drill that seems to underscore Hanoi's concern about China's growing assertiveness and military build-up in the disputed South China Sea (SCS).

Footage from the exercise was aired on 25 July by the Vietnam National Defence television channel (QPVN). The drill included at least two of the VPN's three Polnochny-class (Project 771) tank landing ships, which deployed a number of PT-76 light amphibious tanks.

This was followed by naval infantry in small boats and a number of 10-tonne BTR-60PB armoured personnel carriers being deployed on beaches. The exercise did not appear to have included either naval gunfire or aerial support.

While the actual date of the drill was not revealed, analysts say that it likely took place after the Permanent Court of Arbitration's (PCA's) 12 July ruling on the legality of Beijing's territorial claims in the SCS.

The court in The Hague ruled that Beijing's claim to 'historic rights' within most of the disputed waters has no legal basis. The PCA decided on a case brought by the Philippines, which argued that Chinese activity in the region was violating international law. Vietnam is now also considering bringing its own case to the PCA.

Beijing claims most of the SCS on the grounds it is asserting 'historic rights' to maritime resources in the area. China has also embarked on creating controversial artificial islands in the disputed waters, some of which have airstrips and military installations.

This has prompted territorial disputes with neighbouring states such as Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam, which stake competing claims.

Vietnam occupies about 24 islands and reefs in the disputed Spratlys, including islands close to China's newly reclaimed bases on Subi Reef and Gaven Reef.

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## Viet

Interview of Vietnamese reporters with Motonari Adachi, director of Japan Coast Guard. Japan has a modern maritime law enforcement agency, with 128 vessels and 74 patrol aircraft. That is the way to go for Vietnam. the Japanese know how to deal with the Chinese.


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## CCP

Viet said:


> Interview of Vietnamese reporters with Motonari Adachi, director of Japan Coast Guard. Japan has a modern maritime law enforcement agency, with 128 vessels and 74 patrol aircraft. That is the way to go for Vietnam. the Japanese know how to deal with the Chinese.



Deal with Chinese? Easy! Build more ships.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Interview of Vietnamese reporters with Motonari Adachi, director of Japan Coast Guard. Japan has a modern maritime law enforcement agency, with 128 vessels and 74 patrol aircraft. That is the way to go for Vietnam. the Japanese know how to deal with the Chinese.



Bro, Japan is too weak.

You have to build a navy with the size of the USN in order to deal with China.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Bro, Japan is too weak.
> 
> You have to build a navy with the size of the USN in order to deal with China.


You are insulting the Japanese.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> You are insulting the Japanese.



Not really, if they are really that strong, then they don't have to hide behind the US.

If you really want to set up a benchmark, then you should look at the US, then you could start to think how to deal with China.


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## Han Patriot

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not really, if they are really that strong, then they don't have to hide behind the US.
> 
> If you really want to set up a benchmark, then you should look at the US, then you could start to think how to deal with China.


If it weren't for the US, I think we would have easily destroyed their navy.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Han Patriot said:


> If it weren't for the US, I think we would have easily destroyed their navy.



Probably within few hours.

And we don't know why the Viet members worship a lackey country so much.


----------



## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not really, if they are really that strong, then they don't have to hide behind the US.
> 
> If you really want to set up a benchmark, then you should look at the US, then you could start to think how to deal with China.


Following your logic, you are hiding behind the Russians. You drag Putin here and there as seen in the East and South China Sea when targeting the US-JP alliance. Or in the ongoing Korean peninsular nuclear crisis. You should begin to understand the logic of a military alliance. A concept seems not exist in your strategic thinking.



Han Patriot said:


> If it weren't for the US, I think we would have easily destroyed their navy.


How do you want to accomplish that?

I assume you expect Japanese warships are too afraid of China so they don't dare to self defend nor striking back. Time to take a strong cafe.

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## xiao qi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Probably within few hours.
> 
> And we don't know why the Viet members worship a lackey country so much.


We don't worship Japnese ( Some of us not all respect Japanese for their behavior and achievement ) Few hours , oh, seem you too underestimate Japanese navy

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Interview of Vietnamese reporters with Motonari Adachi, director of Japan Coast Guard. Japan has a modern maritime law enforcement agency, with 128 vessels and 74 patrol aircraft. That is the way to go for Vietnam. the Japanese know how to deal with the Chinese.


there is no shortcut in the competition. The only solution is to build more and larger coast guard ships. Or you can choose to use navy ships, if you want


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Following your logic, you are hiding behind the Russians. You drag Putin here and there as seen in the East and South China Sea when targeting the US-JP alliance. Or in the ongoing Korean peninsular nuclear crisis. You should begin to understand the logic of a military alliance. A concept seems not exist in your strategic thinking.



China and Russia are the real partners, while the relationship between the US and Japan is merely master and servant.

You have to know the difference.



xiao qi said:


> We don't worship Japnese ( Some of us not all respect Japanese for their behavior and achievement ) Few hours , oh, seem you too underestimate Japanese navy



They don't have any offensive weapon, this fight won't last more than a day.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> there is no shortcut in the competition. The only solution is to build more and larger coast guard ships. Or you can choose to use navy ships, if you want
> View attachment 323411


The picture should be updated. The number of vessels our coast guard possesses is now higher. For example we received new ships from our shipyards as well as 6 used ships from Japan. And soon more to come from Japan, America, India and from our shipyards. But true, No there is no shortcut. We are midst of the largest naval build-up since end of Vietnam war.


a new built replenisment vessel


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Following your logic, you are hiding behind the Russians. You drag Putin here and there as seen in the East and South China Sea when targeting the US-JP alliance. Or in the ongoing Korean peninsular nuclear crisis. You should begin to understand the logic of a military alliance. A concept seems not exist in your strategic thinking.
> 
> 
> How do you want to accomplish that?


Hiding behind Russia? They were the ones trying to initiate an alliance after Crimea and Syria, even went so far to hope we send our navy to support them in Syria. Due to our non-interventionist policy, we didn't heed it. However, things are going to change. A dozen 052D, you have no idea how powerful these ships are do you?

You do know how outdated the Russian ships are do you? Submarines wise, some of them are still modern, otherwise, our navy is second only to the US.



Viet said:


> I assume you expect Japanese warships are too afraid of China so they don't dare to self defend nor striking back. Time to take a strong cafe.


How are you going to outbuild and outgun a country the size of China? This is not 1937 you know, today's China is a nuclear power, a 10 trillion economy with some super toys.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China and Russia are the real partners, while the relationship between the US and Japan is merely master and servant.
> 
> You have to know the difference.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't have any offensive weapon, this fight won't last more than a day.


Ha ha ha master and slave ...But the "slave" has one of the most modern and largest navies in the world. I don't think it is wrong to copy Japan in this matter.

Ah that is what you have in mind: offensive weapons. Then you shall have more respect for our warships. Because we have them. For example Kalibr cruise missiles.


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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> Ha ha ha master and slave ...But the "slave" has one of the most modern and largest navies in the world. I don't think it is wrong to copy Japan in this matter.
> 
> Ah that is what you have in mind: offensive weapons. Then you have more respect for our warships. Because we have them. For example Kalibr cruise missiles.


Viet, no offense, I don't want to see dead Vietnamese, they are after all our cultural cousins. You have no chance to even face the Chinese Navy, just submit and cooperate.


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## xiao qi

Han Patriot said:


> Viet, no offense, I don't want to see dead Vietnamese, they are after all our cultural cousins. You have no chance to even face the Chinese Navy, just submit and cooperate.


Yup, we know we haven't chances to fight with Chinese. we also want to cooperate. it based on Chinese's government .An example when Polpot attacked our border we hope Chinese could stand to help his brother resolve like a big nation. But Chinese's government obviously refused, You want our stand with your side to counter with Russia ( who also helped our a lot in Vietnam war) we don't want it doesn't mean we scare


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Ha ha ha master and slave ...But the "slave" has one of the most modern and largest navies in the world. I don't think it is wrong to copy Japan in this matter.
> 
> Ah that is what you have in mind: offensive weapons. Then you shall have more respect for our warships. Because we have them. For example Kalibr cruise missiles.



Are you kidding me? The JMSDF is just a toothless tiger.

They don't have any offensive weapons to threaten the major powers.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> The picture should be updated. The number of vessels our coast guard possesses is now higher. For example we received new ships from our shipyards as well as 6 used ships from Japan. And soon more to come from Japan, America, India and from our shipyards. But true, No there is no shortcut. We are midst of the largest naval build-up since end of Vietnam war.
> 
> 
> a new built replenisment vessel



Bro, I think it is ok for Vietnam to compare with other nations of your own league, you are doing a great job to modernize your military, but don't ever compare with China in a pissing contest. You will get despaired at the end.

Even China's commission rate of the large complex nuclear submarines is much faster than the rate that you received your Kilo subs from Russia.



xiao qi said:


> Yup, we know we haven't chances to fight with Chinese. we also want to cooperate. it based on Chinese's government .An example when Polpot attacked our border we hope Chinese could stand to help his brother resolve like a big nation. But Chinese's government obviously refused, You want our stand with your side to counter with Russia ( who also helped our a lot in Vietnam war) we don't want it doesn't mean we scare



Why you have a Chinese name?

Are you a Vietnamese of Chinese descent or just a fan of the Chinese drama?

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## BoQ77

Han Patriot said:


> Viet, no offense, I don't want to see dead Vietnamese, they are after all our cultural cousins.You have no chance to even face the Chinese Navy, just submit and cooperate.



This is how our ancestors destroyed all of Southern Han big fleets and kill Southern Han emperor's son as fleet commander in year 938 with our light boats.






You could find out about these in National Museum of Vietnamese History, in Hanoi.










Remain of the trap









@alaungphaya

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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> This is how our ancestors destroyed all of Southern Han big fleets and kill Southern Han emperor's son as fleet commander in year 938 with our light boats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remain of the trap



Kudos for your military achievement.

However, everybody should look forward, not backward. The solution for your country's future is not through war, but think how to set up a good relationship with your giant neighbor.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Kudos for your military achievement.
> 
> However, everybody should look forward, not backward. The solution for your country's future is not through war, but think how to set up a good relationship with your giant neighbor.



Well said. I just want to tell all, the giant navy isn't always the winner. Actually, many of our ancestors decisive victories are naval against Southern Han, Yuan Mongol, Siam, Champa ... 

In the same place in 1288, 50,000 Vietnam Tran dynasty defeated totally Yuan Mongol fleet with 80,000 naval troops, sunk hundreds big warships , caught 400 big warships alive. 
Casualty from Vietnam side 4000-5000, Yuan casualties are 80,000.

I'm more than happy to have a good relationship with China.

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## frequency

BoQ77 said:


> This is how our ancestors destroyed all of Southern Han big fleets and kill Southern Han emperor's son as fleet commander in year 938 with our light boats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remain of the trap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @alaungphaya



Very nice victory. The Chinese got totally molested here.


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## xiao qi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Why have you a Chinese name?
> Are you a Vietnamese of Chinese descent or just a fan of the Chinese drama?


Vietnamese ( maybe are Chinese descent, if I translate my real name, it is Fan Wen Guang), I know and usually use Chinese to communicate with some Chinese friends on the qq (only reading and a bit writing ). Sometimes I read several Chinese novels.



BoQ77 said:


> Well said. I just want to tell all, the giant navy isn't always the winner. Actually, many of our ancestors decisive victories are naval against Southern Han, Yuan Mongol, Siam, Champa ...
> I'm more than happy to have a good relationship with China.


it is our past, now nobody in Vietnam believe we can defeat Chinese, They are too big, if They only stand and do nothing, it is still very terrible haha

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## BoQ77

xiao qi said:


> it is our past, now nobody in Vietnam believe we can defeat Chinese, They are too big, if They only stand and do nothing, it is still very terrible haha



Vietnam is always much smaller and backward compare to China, during entire of our history, not only at this moment, pal !!!


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## xiao qi

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam is always much smaller and backward compare to China, during entire of our history, not only at this moment, pal !!!


it is cold weapon era, now if they want, they can ignore international law and nuke our, have an idiom " all of the tactics is meaningless when the enemy is too strong"


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## ChineseTiger1986

xiao qi said:


> it is our past, now nobody in Vietnam believe we can defeat Chinese, They are too big, if They only stand and do nothing, it is still very terrible haha



The modern naval warfare is solely built on technology and money.



xiao qi said:


> it is cold weapon era, now if they want, they can ignore international law and nuke our, have an idiom " all of the tactics is meaningless when the enemy is too strong"



China won't attack any nuclear free countries with the nuclear weapons.

Also, China doesn't have the intention to solve the SCS problems only with the war.

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## BoQ77

xiao qi said:


> it is cold weapon era, now if they want, they can ignore international law and nuke our, have an idiom " all of the tactics is meaningless when the enemy is too strong"



your mindset leads any country to nuclear regime. FYI, if we want, Vietnam could have our own nuclear weapons. Vietnam has been running the US build reactors using HEU since 1962 and get support from Soviet Union ( technician and materials ) after 1975 until now.
The road with the site of reactor in Da Lat named "Nuclear power Road", the address of the reactor at No. 1 of Nuclear Power Road"
That's for public.
http://www.sortirdunucleaire.org/U-S-Vietnam-nuclear-talks-focus-on


> The Wall Street Journal reports Aug 3 that US talks with Vietnam about its plans to build nuclear reactors has “unsettled“ key members of Congress. The Hindu, one of India’s largest newspapers, reports Aug 9 that China is annoyed by reports Vietnam might develop uranium enrichment capabilities with U.S. technology.
> The WSJ report leads with news that the Obama administration is “in advanced negotiations to share nuclear fuel and technology... that would allow Hanoi to enrich its own uranium.”








The Globalzero listed Vietnam as 1 of 59 countries own nuclear materials and could start the program of developing nuclear weapons.

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## xiao qi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The modern naval warfare is solely built on technology and money.
> 
> 
> 
> China won't attack any nuclear free countries with the nuclear weapons.
> 
> Also, China doesn't have the intention to solve the SCS problems only with the war.


I'm saying about how to defeat the Chinese now . Frankly, No chances or opportunity for Vietnam when counter with China. " China won't attack any nuclear free countries with the nuclear weapons" i doubt about that. In Vietnam war, Us had a plan to nuke Noth Vietnam and Khe Sanh.Fortunately, it didn't happen . Russia had too when they had conflict with China ..( if i remember right, at that time China hasn't nuke for herself )


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## ChineseTiger1986

xiao qi said:


> I'm saying about how to defeat the Chinese now . Frankly, No chances or opportunity for Vietnam when counter with China. " China won't attack any nuclear free countries with the nuclear weapons" i doubt about that. In Vietnam war, Us had a plan to nuke Noth Vietnam and Khe Sanh.Fortunately, it didn't happen . Russia had too when they had conflict with China ..( if i remember right, at that time China hasn't nuke for herself )



China didn't even use nukes on Vietnam back in 1979 where China suffered the shortcomings of equipment and fighting experience.

Back then, China only got nukes, but its conventional weapons were weaker than Vietnam's.


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China didn't even use nukes on Vietnam back in 1979 where China suffered the shortcomings of equipment and fighting experience.
> 
> Back then, China only got nukes, but its conventional weapons were weaker than Vietnam's.



My friend, Vietnam doesn't want to be another North Korea.

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## xiao qi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China didn't even use nukes on Vietnam back in 1979 where China suffered the shortcomings of equipment and fighting experience.
> 
> Back then, China only got nukes, but its conventional weapons were weaker than Vietnam's.


Because China doesn't dare to use the nuclear weapon, Vietnam was a part of Warsaw Pact. If China uses their nuclear weapon USSR would do similar to China. It is the conventional war, China attack first. Vietnam only defends their territories. And China was not defeated. I wonder If China was defeated and then Vietnam attacked China border, the Chinese government should think they can use the neuclear weapon!


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## Viet

Han Patriot said:


> Viet, no offense, I don't want to see dead Vietnamese, they are after all our cultural cousins. You have no chance to even face the Chinese Navy, just submit and cooperate.


No thanks. Being a part of evil Chinese empire for 1,000 years is enough. You have endless opportunities for cooperation with Vietnam, it is up to you to grab the chance. Playing policy of intimidation will never take any effect on us.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> No thanks. Being a part of evil Chinese empire for 1,000 years is enough. You have endless opportunities for cooperation with Vietnam, it is up to you to grab the chance. Playing policy of intimidation will never take any effect on us.


buddy, don't too provoke, he has kindness when he advised us, although we hate Chinese government, but I don't think we have reasons to hate all of the Chinese. Chinese has good, bad people like Vietnam has

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## ChineseTiger1986

xiao qi said:


> Because China doesn't dare to use the nuclear weapon, Vietnam was a part of Warsaw Pact. If China uses their nuclear weapon USSR would do similar to China. It is the conventional war, China attack first. Vietnam only defends their territories. And China was not defeated. I wonder If China was defeated and then Vietnam attacked China border, the Chinese government should think they can use the neuclear weapon!



Not really, even China did nuke Vietnam in 1979, USSR still wouldn't do anything. Because they could completely annihilate China in a nuclear war, but they would also lose more than half of their cities and industrial bases by China's nuclear retaliation.

Trust me, USSR always considered those East European countries as their first class allies, while Vietnam as a second class ally. And I don't think they would risk that much for the behalf of Vietnam.

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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Not really, even China did nuke Vietnam in 1979, USSR still wouldn't do anything. Because they could completely annihilate China in a nuclear war, but they would also lose more than half of their cities and industrial bases by China's nuclear retaliation.
> 
> Trust me, USSR always considered those East European countries as their first class allies, while Vietnam as a second class ally. And I don't think they would risk that much for the behalf of Vietnam.



Wish you could keep this as your own thinking. as no one could prove it.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> buddy, don't too provoke, he has kindness when he advised us, although we hate Chinese government, but I don't think we have reasons to hate all of the Chinese. Chinese has good, bad people like Vietnam has


Just stating my opinion. I hate arrogance and aggression.


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## Carlosa

Vietnam fishermen team up to secure fishing grounds from Chinese attackers

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/36337...secure-fishing-grounds-from-chinese-attackers

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 08/05/2016 10:38 GMT + 7







*Vietnam’s fishing crews are joining forces at sea to ensure safety from Chinese assaults and resist violations of Vietnamese sovereign waters.*

Fishing boats operating near the Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago have begun operating in large groups, hoping that a ‘power in numbers’ approach will deter Chinese ships from pursuing Vietnamese fishing boats.

Despite growing safety concerns, fishermen operating in the area refuse to abandon their livelihood and retreat from Vietnam’s valid and legal claim of authority over the archipelago and its surrounding seas.

Local fishing boat captains hope that operating in cooperation with other Vietnamese fishermen will protect both their crews and equipment from assaults similar to the dozens of Chinese attacks that have been reported over the last few years.

Nguyen Van Phu, captain and owner of fishing ship QNg 90657 from the central province of Quang Ngai, reported that four instances of harassment from Chinese vessels during a recent weeklong journey forced his crew to limit their fishing operations to only two nights over the course of their seven days at sea.

According to the captain, he spent most of the time steering his boat away from Chinese perpetrators.

“We leant quickly to hide from the vessels after spotting them from a distance. We wouldn’t be able to escape,” Phu said.

Phu still considers himself lucky, noting that in June last year his boat was assaulted by four Chinese ships while operating in the maritime area.

The attackers stole Phu’s catch and destroyed his fishing equipment, causing VND750 million (US$33,637) in total damages.

According to Nguyen Chi Thanh, another local fisher, Chinese vessels often head into Vietnam’s waters between May and September each year, the primary fishing season for Vietnamese fishermen.

Despite repeated encounters with the Chinese, many ending in harassment and robbery, Thanh remains persistent in carrying out his operations at sea.

The fisher recalled an incident last year when his boat was rammed and had its property plundered by two Chinese vessels.

“I’ve encountered them up to 20 times since the beginning of this year but was able to escape before they could approach us,” Thanh said.

Vo Van Luu, 50, whose boat was sunk by a Chinese vessel on July 9 near Hoang Sa, expressed his resentment, asserting that he would sue the culprits and demand compensation.

“I have fallen victim to such violence every year for the past three years. They often form a fleet of two vessels and a speedboat to pursue Vietnamese targets,” Luu stated.

Chinese fishing boats operating illegally in Vietnam’s waters are often accompanied by a coast guard vessel, said Vo Sy Toan, a 55-year-old fisherman from Quang Ngai.

“They usually anchor five to seven nautical miles away from fishing ships to offer protection when necessary,” Toan elaborated.

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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> Wish you could keep this as your own thinking. as no one could approve it.



Just look at South Korea, when they declared the THAAD installation, so many protests has been manifested by their own people.

Because most of their people know that THAAD would make them a target prone to China and Russia if the war outbreaks with the US. And they still don't trust their defense treaty with the US on the paper. Otherwise, they wouldn't consider that THAAD has put them in danger.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Just look at South Korea, when they declared the THAAD installation, so many protests has been manifested by their own people.
> 
> Because most of their people know that THAAD would make them a target prone to China and Russia if the war outbreaks with the US. And they still don't trust their defense treaty with the US on the paper. Otherwise, they wouldn't consider that THAAD has put them in danger.


Tiger, we are reading, hearing of S Korean protests because protests are allowed and reported in media in SK. If China allowed protests, we would see mass protesters every day. Xi Jinping won't be amused.

SK decides for Thaad because she fears NK and...no surprise...mistrusts China.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Tiger, we are reading, hearing of S Korean protests because protests are allowed and reported in media in SK. If China allowed protests, we would see mass protesters every day. Xi Jinping won't be amused.
> 
> SK decides for Thaad because she fears NK and...no surprise...mistrusts China.



Heck, China has never risked its own national security at the hand of a foreign country.

So, why should the Chinese people protest?


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Heck, China has never risked its own national security at the hand of a foreign country.
> 
> So, why should the Chinese people protest?


all 1.4 billion chinese have the same thought, the same wish to defend the perceived territory at all costs?

that reminds me of "Gleichschaltung" in Germany some time ago.




"


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> all 1.4 billion chinese have the same thought, the same wish to defend the perceived territory at all costs?
> 
> that reminds me of "Gleichschaltung" in Germany some time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "



We defend our sovereignty, while the Nazi Germany invaded other countries.

Apple to orange.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We defend our sovereignty, while the Nazi Germany invaded other countries.
> 
> Apple to orange.


Defending what sovereignty?

Do you mean yours over the South China Sea?

I am tired to repeat over and over to you and other Chinese liars. Fact is China has never exercised sovereignty over the sea in the last 3,000 years. Everything you say you write is fake. Your "historic rights" has no standing in the international laws. Saying you were the first who discovered the sea is an insult for all people. Your 9 dash line is a brand new invention in the last century.

I can understand if you say Manchuria, Mongolia, Tibet, Taiwan are Chinese territories, sovereignty. Do you feel the pain that Russia still occupies a large part of China as war booty? But 90% of the South China Sea is yours? Hey you never control it in whole for a single day in history.

Yes declaring our EEZ waters as yours is an act of aggression. Yes brainwashing 1.4 billion Chinese with the 9 dash line is Gleichschaltung. Are they all willing to die for a fake story?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Defending what sovereignty?
> 
> Do you mean yours over the South China Sea?
> 
> I am tired to repeat over and over to you and other Chinese liars. Fact is China has never exercised sovereignty over the sea in the last 3,000 years. Everything you say you write is fake. Your "historic rights" has no standing in the international laws. Saying you were the first who discovered the sea is an insult for all people. Your 9 dash line is a brand new invention in the last century.
> 
> I can understand if you say Manchuria, Mongolia, Tibet, Taiwan are Chinese territories, sovereignty. But 90% of the South China Sea is yours? Hey you never control it in whole for a single day in history.
> 
> Yes declaring our EEZ waters as yours is an act of aggression. Yes brainwashing 1.4 billion Chinese with the 9 dash line is Gleichschaltung. Are they all willing to die for a fake story?



We have just to ensure that the SCS to become the stronghold for our SSBNs. This is a concern about our national security.

We know you want the oil, we can share with you no problem, but the base of our SSBNs must be absolutely safe.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We have just to ensure that the SCS to become the stronghold for our SSBNs. This is a concern about our national security.
> 
> We know you want the oil, we can share with you no problem, but the base of our SSBNs must be absolutely safe.


Lol do you think we are happy if you throw a one dollar coin at us? 

What a delusion! 

What we want is to command over our waters. That ensures our national security. We care of our naval assets, while you yours. That is the deal. Why should we take care of your nuclear subs?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Lol do you think we are happy if you throw a one dollar coin at us?
> 
> What a delusion!
> 
> What we want is to command over our waters. That ensures our national security. We care of our naval assets, while you yours. That is the deal. Why should we take care of your nuclear subs?



That's your own problem, we are now building a navy that rivals the USN.

Do you want to stop us from consolidating the SCS with your own effort?


----------



## frequency

Viet said:


> Lol do you think we are happy if you throw a one dollar coin at us?
> 
> What a delusion!
> 
> What we want is to command over our waters. That ensures our national security. We care of our naval assets, while you yours. That is the deal. Why should we take care of your nuclear subs?





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's your own problem, we are now building a navy that rivals the USN.
> 
> Do you want to stop us from consolidating the SCS with your own effort?




It would be stupid for both asian countries to kill each other. Why not work together? You guys are so dumb. US is the Eagle and they are watching you two killing each other then the US come in and take over while you are weak. God, what's wrong with your people. It is a simple concept but Chinese and Vietnamese can't fking get along. What the f are your problems with each other? Work together for fk sakes.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

frequency said:


> It would be stupid for both asian countries to kill each other. Why not work together? You guys are so dumb. US is the Eagle and they are watching you two killing each other then the US come in and take over while you are weak. God, what's wrong with your people. It is a simple concept but Chinese and Vietnamese can't fking get along. What the f are your problems with each other? Work together for fk sakes.



We are already the great leader of East Asia, but you guys don't want to compromise with us, but to conspire with the western powers.

We are too strong, the SCS is de facto controlled by us.

And if Vietnam follows us, there will be greater economic benefits for you guys.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's your own problem, we are now building a navy that rivals the USN.
> 
> Do you want to stop us from consolidating the SCS with your own effort?


We take the challenge.

How many ships are you going to build?

If I recall, in the war against the Ming in the 15 century, we fielded 1,000 ships, with ship battle formation darkening the horizon.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> We take the challenge.
> 
> How many ships are you going to build?
> 
> If I recall, in the war against the Ming in the 15 century, we fielded 1,000 ships, with ship battle formation darkening the horizon.



2 x 60,000 tons CV
2 x 80,000 tons CV
2 x 120,000 tons CVN

24 x 14,000 tons Aegis DDG
24 x 7,000 tons Aegis DDG

12 x 20,000 tons SSBN
8 x 12,000 tons SSGN
24 x 12,000 tons SSN
12 x 7,000 tons SSN

That's approximately the major capital ships that our navy will have in 20 years, not counting a bunch of frigates, corvettes, and AIP subs.


----------



## Viet

frequency said:


> It would be stupid for both asian countries to kill each other. Why not work together? You guys are so dumb. US is the Eagle and they are watching you two killing each other then the US come in and take over while you are weak. God, what's wrong with your people. It is a simple concept but Chinese and Vietnamese can't fking get along. What the f are your problems with each other? Work together for fk sakes.


Of course it is fcking stupid if we both go to war. For what? We have seen enough wars. it is not only unnecessary but does not bring peace to either side in the long run. Working together is easier said than done. Because it is a one sided wish considering the huge imbalance of powers between the two countries. Not to mention the historically difficult relationship between us since 2,200 years. So things usually happen as follows:

- the best case scenario: China considers Vietnam as ally, similar to the case of Pakistan.

- the neutral scenario: Vietnam is considered as a "normal" country, like 200 or more other countries in the world.

- the worst case: China sees our country a small brother, a servant, a slave.

We can accept and even happy with the second option, but never the last scenario. Unfortunately the Chinese always resort to confrontation. They command we must accept the last option.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Of course it is fcking stupid if we both go to war. For what? We have seen enough wars. it is not only unnecessary but does not bring peace to either side in the long run. Working together is easier said than done. Because it is a one sided wish considering the huge imbalance of powers between the two countries. Not to mention the historically difficult relationship between us since 2,200 years. So things usually happen as follows:
> 
> - the best case scenario: China considers Vietnam as ally, similar to the case of Pakistan.
> 
> - the neutral scenario: Vietnam is considered as a "normal" country, like 200 or more other countries in the world.
> 
> - the worst case: China sees our country a small brother, a servant, a slave.
> 
> We can accept and even happy with the second option, but never the last scenario. Unfortunately the Chinese always resort to confrontation. They command we must accept the last option.



You can keep your claim on the SCS, but it is de facto under our control.

It is a win-win for both side.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Viet said:


> Of course it is fcking stupid if we both go to war. For what? We have seen enough wars. it is not only unnecessary but does not bring peace to either side in the long run. Working together is easier said than done. Because it is a one sided wish considering the huge imbalance of powers between the two countries. Not to mention the historically difficult relationship between us since 2,200 years. So things usually happen as follows:
> 
> - the best case scenario: China considers Vietnam as ally, similar to the case of Pakistan.
> 
> - the neutral scenario: Vietnam is considered as a "normal" country, like 200 or more other countries in the world.
> 
> - the worst case: China sees our country a small brother, a servant, a slave.
> 
> We can accept and even happy with the second option, but never the last scenario. Unfortunately the Chinese always resort to confrontation. They command we must accept the last option.



China will never treat Vietnam as Pakistan because we don't have a common enemy such as India. And impossible to be neutral, we have conflicting interest such SCS and Vietnam south Asia domination, most likely Vietnam will use external power such US and Japan to balance China and we will be please to give Vietnam an appropriate respond, and History has shown that it's not China best interest to take Vietnam as small brother or slave because it's too expensive for China more to maintain it, we rather want to keep Vietnam loose and tame it when it's necessary.


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## frequency

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> China will never treat Vietnam as Pakistan because we don't have a common enemy such as India. And impossible to be neutral, we have conflicting interest such SCS and Vietnam south Asia domination, most likely Vietnam will use external power such US and Japan to balance China and we will be please to give Vietnam an appropriate respond, and History has shown that it's not China best interest to take Vietnam as small brother or slave because it's too expensive for China more to maintain it, we rather want to keep Vietnam loose and tame it when it's necessary.





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You can keep your claim on the SCS, but it is de facto under our control.
> 
> It is a win-win for both side.



With both attitudes like that, no one will ever want to get along with you. You both do realize its stupid for China to go to war with Vietnam and vice versa? It only benefits the West. 

This is the same that happened with Canada in the 1700's when the Natives asking the British for help against the American. During those time, the American and British didn't get along and didn't like each other. But you know what both did? The British and American realized that if they worked together and split territories they can eat that sheep and no bloodshed. So they did and they ate the sheep (the sheep is now the Natives). 

Canada and US land belongs to the Natives and the Natives came from Asian region such as China, Japan, etc.

Your Chinese arrogance is blinding you from seeing the reality. You will not win against US when you trying to mess with everyone around you. It doesn't matter how many people you have (this was proven throughout history). I know that for a fact, not base on your fact. Your Chinese weapons were never battle tested, all show but no act. You have never fought any major war and testing out your weapon. So don't act like you can take on the US. US weapons are all real and battle tested and proven. Your Chinese made weapons aren't. So to think you can match the US's power is pure stupidity and naive. 

Why not just work together and develop the relationship and realize bigger goals?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

frequency said:


> With both attitudes like that, no one will ever want to get along with you. You both do realize its stupid for China to go to war with Vietnam and vice versa? It only benefits the West.
> 
> This is the same that happened with Canada in the 1700's when the Natives asking the British for help against the American. During those time, the American and British didn't get along and didn't like each other. But you know what both did? The British and American realized that if they worked together and split territories they can eat that sheep and no bloodshed. So they did and they ate the sheep (the sheep is now the Natives).
> 
> Canada and US land belongs to the Natives and the Natives came from Asian region such as China, Japan, etc.
> 
> Your Chinese arrogance is blinding you from seeing the reality. You will not win against US when you trying to mess with everyone around you. It doesn't matter how many people you have (this was proven throughout history). I know that for a fact, not base on your fact. Your Chinese weapons were never battle tested, all show but no act. You have never fought any major war and testing out your weapon. So don't act like you can take on the US. US weapons are all real and battle tested and proven. Your Chinese made weapons aren't. So to think you can match the US's power is pure stupidity and naive.
> 
> Why not just work together and develop the relationship and realize bigger goals?



Since when I said to have war with Vietnam?  And yes go try to sell your bight example of US-Canada story to see if Vietnamese government will buy that ? and beside we don't have any native land to share unless you're saying to conquer Pinoy's land and split between us 

And nope I'm not arrogance, what I said to @Viet is my realistic assessment of his 3 scenarios...and please don't talk fancy and brag US battle proven weapon, it wont scare us.


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## BoQ77

Don't turn this to China military news

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## Viet

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Since when I said to have war with Vietnam?  And yes go try to sell your bight example of US-Canada story to see if Vietnamese government will buy that ? and beside we don't have any native land to share unless you're saying to conquer Pinoy's land and split between us
> 
> And nope I'm not arrogance, what I said to @Viet is my realistic assessment of his 3 scenarios...and please don't talk fancy and brag US battle proven weapon, it wont scare us.


You are a troller. China is hopeless case. Believing you can take on America military eye by eye is a sheer ignorance of reality on the ground. In case you haven't noticed, the military spendings of America and her NATO allies are more than 10 times of Russia. If one adds other non NATO members such as France, Japan, S Korea and Australia, you will realize your great delusion.

When did China fight a modern war?

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## Viet

this news has already been posted, including the report of a Vietnam made component. though it is unclear what component is made. here is it.

Delivery of SPYDER anti aircraft missile system (Israel)








a friend-foe identification system is necessary to identify friend or foe (IFF)








Vietnam made friend-foe identification system: máy hỏi VN1 (MH-VN1), mounted on a trailer

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## Viet

EXTRA missile system as an important part of Artillery Corps. 120 kg conventional warhead, range 150 km, CEP 10 m, inertial navigation system (INS), guiding the missile to target by GPS.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 2 x 60,000 tons CV
> 2 x 80,000 tons CV
> 2 x 120,000 tons CVN
> 
> 24 x 14,000 tons Aegis DDG
> 24 x 7,000 tons Aegis DDG
> 
> 12 x 20,000 tons SSBN
> 8 x 12,000 tons SSGN
> 24 x 12,000 tons SSN
> 12 x 7,000 tons SSN
> 
> That's approximately the major capital ships that our navy will have in 20 years, not counting a bunch of frigates, corvettes, and AIP subs.


that is an impressive list, but is not useful as it is designed to be. I won´t say worthless. because without allies and friends you can´t project power, nowhere, even with more aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarines. everywhere you go, you are met with suspicion and resistance. you can´t nothing, except staging exercises here and there and going home afterwards. your ships will rust, corrode with the times at bay. as you are not welcomed, you can play a policy of intimidation, showing your guns, but it is a short sighted policy.

Look at the map. you are contained by the navies of US and their allies as well as friendly countries. from Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, Singapore, Australia, India. oh yeah you can take a long way and dock at Pakistan ports. the times, when other came to China capital paying tributes are long gone.

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## Han Patriot

Viet said:


> that is an impressive list, but is not useful as it is designed to be. I won´t say worthless. because without allies and friends you can´t project power, nowhere, even with more aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarines. everywhere you go, you are met with suspicion and resistance. you can´t nothing, except staging exercises here and there and going home afterwards. your ships will rust, corrode with the times at bay. as you are not welcomed, you can play a policy of intimidation, showing your guns, but it is a short sighted policy.
> 
> Look at the map. you are contained by the navies of US and their allies as well as friendly countries. from Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philippines, Singapore, Australia, India. oh yeah you can take a long way and dock at Pakistan ports. the times, when other came to China capital paying tributes are long gone.


Well, it's not dead end chess. Cambodia, Thailand, Bangladesh, Myanmar, and Sri Lanka are friendly nations. Japan, SK, Taiwan and Australia are American stooges. Vietnam is not aligned to anybody except Russia, if we attack Vietnam, nothing will happen to us. Philipines is a bit tricky, the attack need to be fast, reinforced with carriers. US will not attack a nucleat armed China, and from the signs of it Russia just joined us for a drill in SCS, a signal to America on the unofficial alignment.

India will most likely stick out, we have Pakistan to neutralize them. So basically a fast war capturing Viet and Pinoy islands is feasible. Malaysian seems willing to negotiate and the PM is easily bribed. SG will not get involved in a Chinese US conflict except allowing the US to.use the existing US base there. Its been our policy not to attack Taiwanese forces in SCS, they are our brothers afterall. They will not join the US against us. That leaves US and Japan. OZ will most likely provide 'support' but not direct interference.

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## BoQ77

We have enough sea and air launch AShM to cool any hot head.

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## frequency

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Since when I said to have war with Vietnam?  And yes go try to sell your bight example of US-Canada story to see if Vietnamese government will buy that ? and beside we don't have any native land to share unless you're saying to conquer Pinoy's land and split between us
> 
> And nope I'm not arrogance, what I said to @Viet is my realistic assessment of his 3 scenarios...and please don't talk fancy and brag US battle proven weapon, it wont scare us.



You don't read hey? I guess you are either really stupid or trolling. Pick one.
Oh right, I forgot you are an internet warrior. Nothing scares you over the internet. C'mon you talk like a kid.
It's alright, 1.4 billion Chinese would disagree with you.

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China has the prompt global strike capability, most of the US allies would get wiped out within a hour.
> 
> When it is a real battle, then it would only be an one-on-one battle between the two titans, and those puny lackeys are just neglectable.


I hope you don't mean strategic or nuclear weapon. Such thing must belong to weapon of last resort. Nuclear weapon mustn't be used as the first means when a war starts somewhere. Used if the fate of a country is at stake. Fighting over islands and rocks in the South China Sea can never legitimate the use of strategic weapon.

You can laugh, making joke over military alliance, insulting small nations. I don't care. Nobody should care. Military alliance exists since dinosaur age, or at least since Macedonia and the Greek states formed a military alliance against the Persian empire. The former USSR was mighty because she had lots of friends and allies spanning half the globe. America is mighty for the same reasons. The US have 60 military bases all over the planet. And some next to your door steps.

China is probably the only country in the world, that fails to recognize the value of alliance. That will reduce you to a regional power. You believe, it is only the money that matters. You rely on as you say it "global strike capability". Once your opponents have the same capability you are naked. I pity you.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I hope you don't mean strategic or nuclear weapon. Such thing must belong to weapon of last resort. Nuclear weapon mustn't be used as the first means when a war starts somewhere. Used if the fate of a country is at stake. Fighting over islands and rocks in the South China Sea can never legitimate the use of strategic weapon.
> 
> You can laugh, making joke over military alliance, insulting small nations. I don't care. Nobody should care. Military alliance exists since dinosaur age, or at least since Macedonia and the Greek states formed a military alliance against the Persian empire. The former USSR was mighty because she had lots of friends and allies spanning half the globe. America is mighty for the same reasons. The US have 60 military bases all over the planet. And some next to your door steps.
> 
> China is probably the only country in the world, that fails to recognize the value of alliance. That will reduce you to a regional power. You believe, it is only the money that matters. You rely on as you say it "global strike capability". Once your opponents have the same capability you are naked. I pity you.



This weapon is not nuclear, but a conventional weapon almost as powerful as the nuclear weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WU-14


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## cnleio

Pls if members in here wanna discuss Diplomacy & SCS dispute, we already had the SCS news thread ... this military force thread should post military photos & news from Vietnam military force, here no need insignificant quarrel, every member from China or Vietnam etc should obey PDF rules, it will make PDF forum more better when each one following the rule.

@waz pls clean this thread, thank you very much !

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## Viet

I think, anything relating to Vietnam military or in the context is ok to discuss. As long as nobody resorts to foul play.

@waz @cnleio


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## MacanJawa

soo how much the spyder system cost?


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## Carlosa

MacanJawa said:


> soo how much the spyder system cost?



40 million for a Spyder SR battery.

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## GS Zhou

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This weapon is not nuclear, but a conventional weapon almost as powerful as the nuclear weapon.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WU-14


Hi bro, this is a Vietnam military thread. I think we should leave some space for the VN friends here. No need to quarrel with them too hard in this thread.

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## Viet

Carlosa

How are things going?

You can help me to decode probably the most significant project of Vietnam this year. Maybe you have read it too. The government just launches the first ever satellite communications service in Vietnam. Sure, it is a thing we applaude, showing economic progress. One of the many news we read every day. Usually nothing special. But there are many things I can't unterstand and I try to decode the puzzle. The news says:

- it is called vinaphone s. S for satelitte.

- the satellite service includes phone calls, SMS and GPS navigation

- it covers the entire Vietnam mainland territory, islands and sea. With some exception of some remote areas within high mountains. In addition it covers 2/3 of the Earth.

- the service is provided by the post and communication state company PTVN

- the service aims to assist fishermen and coast guard in need. It also helps other government agencies to carry out their duties.








how is it possible that the satellite service covers 2/3 of the planet, although we only have two geostationary satelittes in space?

why do we need to cover such a huge area?

What technology is used?

I have a theory. It is all about to put pieces of a puzzle into a complete picture.

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## Viet

Testing a new of mechanism for short range anti aircraft missile SA-7, max range 2.7 km, on Gunship TT-400TP


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## Viet

Testing drones on sea

this one may be a new version of M series











I have no clue what is it.


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## Viet

Has anyone seen that?

made in Vietnam 4,500 tons desalination monster, by Doosan Vina, a Korean company operating in Vietnam since 2009. the desalination monster produces 95 million liters of freshwater a day.

we may only need a smaller version for our islands 

picture of a monster for Saudi Arabia

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Carlosa
> 
> How are things going?
> 
> You can help me to decode probably the most significant project of Vietnam this year. Maybe you have read it too. The government just launches the first ever satellite communications service in Vietnam. Sure, it is a thing we applaude, showing economic progress. One of the many news we read every day. Usually nothing special. But there are many things I can't unterstand and I try to decode the puzzle. The news says:
> 
> - it is called vinaphone s. S for satelitte.
> 
> - the satellite service includes phone calls, SMS and GPS navigation
> 
> - it covers the entire Vietnam mainland territory, islands and sea. With some exception of some remote areas within high mountains. In addition it covers 2/3 of the Earth.
> 
> - the service is provided by the post and communication state company PTVN
> 
> - the service aims to assist fishermen and coast guard in need. It also helps other government agencies to carry out their duties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how is it possible that the satellite service covers 2/3 of the planet, although we only have two geostationary satelittes in space?
> 
> why do we need to cover such a huge area?
> 
> What technology is used?
> 
> I have a theory. It is all about to put pieces of a puzzle into a complete picture.



Let me read about it first. I saw a headline, but I didn't read the articles. What I can say is that 2 satellites can't cover 2 thirds of the planet by themselves. The service is probably connected to other networks from other countries that use other satellites. Something like when you are roaming with your phone when you go to other countries.

I'm still in China and quite busy.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> *China has the prompt global strike capability, most of the US allies would get wiped out within a hour.*
> 
> When it is a real battle, then it would only be an one-on-one battle between the two titans, and those puny lackeys are just neglectable.


Then why not China done it ?

Am using the same silly argument that you PDF Chinese have been using against the US: If you can do something, then you must do it.

But since US allies are still around, that mean you are wrong. China cannot do what you claimed.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's your own problem, we are now building a navy that rivals the USN.
> 
> Do you want to stop us from consolidating the SCS with your own effort?


Yeah...You are *STILL* building. And even if China sustain that build for 50 yrs, that does not mean the US will be stagnant in that time span.

China does not have an aircraft carrier.

Sorry, but the Liaoning does not qualify. To 'have an aircraft carrier' mean to be able to use that ship as a credible threat. The Liaoning is nothing more than a training vessel.

What this mean is that in terms of inflicting damages in combat or containment of China, the Viets are closer to China than China is closer to the US.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Let me read about it first. I saw a headline, but I didn't read the articles. What I can say is that 2 satellites can't cover 2 thirds of the planet by themselves. The service is probably connected to other networks from other countries that use other satellites. Something like when you are roaming with your phone when you go to other countries.
> 
> I'm still in China and quite busy.


Bingo!

we have vinasat-1 und 2 in space, two telecommunication satellites, actually covering Vietnam, Southeast Asia and some "other" countries nearby. both were manufactured by Lockheed Martin. to cover 2/3 of the planet, more satellites are needed, and I guess we rent them from the US, which have some 500 satellites in space. and that explains why only 2/3 and not the whole planet, because the coverage excludes American continent. that means, our Navy can now operate worldwide, our missiles can land on targets with higher accuracy, our fishermen at sea can call our Coast Guard for assistance if seeing intruders, our spies in foreign countries can make secured phone calls to the headquarters. all that without relying on foreign telecom infrastructures.

have the US lifted arms embargo recently?

did Locked Martin visit Hanoi?

putting pieces of puzzle in a picture

great times ahead 

wishing you have a good business!

picture of vinasat-2















launching vinasat-2 in space

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## Viet

Live fire exercise. ZCY-23 tank with 23mm quad artillery guns against air, land and water targets, 3,400 rounds a minute, effective range 2,000 m, radar detecting range 12 km, locking targets at a distance of 10 km.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> Bingo!
> 
> we have vinasat-1 und 2 in space, two telecommunication satellites, actually covering Vietnam, Southeast Asia and some "other" countries nearby. both were manufactured by Lockheed Martin. to cover 2/3 of the planet, more satellites are needed, and I guess we rent them from the US, which have some 500 satellites in space. and that explains why only 2/3 and not the whole planet, because the coverage excludes American continent. that means, our Navy can now operate worldwide, our missiles can land on targets with higher accuracy, our fishermen at sea can call our Coast Guard for assistance if seeing intruders, our spies in foreign countries can make secured phone calls to the headquarters. all that without relying on foreign telecom infrastructures.
> 
> have the US lifted arms embargo recently?
> 
> did Locked Martin visit Hanoi?
> 
> putting pieces of puzzle in a picture
> 
> great times ahead
> 
> wishing you have a good business!
> 
> picture of vinasat-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> launching vinasat-2 in space



I thought this was launched long time ago. I heard more sats are going up soon


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> I thought this was launched long time ago. I heard more sats are going up soon


correct. vinasat-1 and 2 were launched in 2008 and 2012. but to fully utilize the satellites and expand the coverage to 2/3 of the earth surface for satellite communications, we need, first, to lend foreign satellites, enabling them as transponders. as our satellites are made by Lockheed Martin, a US company, I would guess we lend similar Lockheed Martin made satellites, operated by the US government.

second, for secured and encrypted communications we need the software. we need to put all sats into a sats cloud called "vinaphone s". understandably, the US have no interests if we cover the American continent using US technology. hence only 2/3 coverage.

some thing like this US sat


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## CAPRICORN-88

gambit said:


> Then why not China done it ?
> 
> Am using the same silly argument that you PDF Chinese have been using against the US: If you can do something, then you must do it.
> 
> But since US allies are still around, that mean you are wrong. China cannot do what you claimed.
> 
> 
> Yeah...You are *STILL* building. And even if China sustain that build for 50 yrs, that does not mean the US will be stagnant in that time span.
> 
> China does not have an aircraft carrier.
> 
> Sorry, but the Liaoning does not qualify. To 'have an aircraft carrier' mean to be able to use that ship as a credible threat. The Liaoning is nothing more than a training vessel.
> 
> What this mean is that in terms of inflicting damages in combat or containment of China, the Viets are closer to China than China is closer to the US.



 IF I am China, I will not bother myself with the desperate provocations initiated by USA thru' her proxies e.g. Philippines or Japan as it does not benefit China one tiny bit at this moment.

 In any case USA cannot hope to win or fight a war with China without the deployment of her mega thermonuclear weapons. Based on what I read, China has the capability to intercept as well as retaliate using her hypersonic weapons e.g. HGV WU-14 or her latest multiple warheads JL-3 Julong SLBM. So you see it is quite mutual and I do not see USA-China in all out war in the near future. Incidence involving USA spyplanes perhaps or maybe warships ramming each others.

 Don't underestimate the CV16 Liaoning as it is indeed a full fledge AIRCRAFT CARRIER which can be very lethal to enemies warships if you study her type of armament or the type of weapon the J-15 are capable of carrying. 

Yes it is indeed designated as a training vessel by choice by China Military for her future projection fleets e.g. CV18 onwards. 

In says 5 more years or so, USA will no longer have any edge whether it is in her economy or in her MILITARY, at the rate China is progressing. China in compliance with SNA 2013 accounting standard will added another couple of trillion to her already huge economy. At 6.5~7%, when China sneezes nations like Vietnam, South Korea or Taiwan will catch a cold.



Viet said:


> correct. vinasat-1 and 2 were launched in 2008 and 2012. but to fully utilize the satellites and expand the coverage to 2/3 of the earth surface for satellite communications, we need, first, to lend foreign satellites, enabling them as transponders. as our satellites are made by Lockheed Martin, a US company, I would guess we lend similar Lockheed Martin made satellites, operated by the US government.
> 
> second, for secured and encrypted communications we need the software. we need to put all sats into a sats cloud called "vinaphone s". understandably, the US have no interests if we cover the American continent using US technology. hence only 2/3 coverage.
> 
> some thing like this US sat



These satellites are great for commercial applications but if they are ever employed in a war with China, they may be all destroyed.


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## Viet

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> These satellites are great for commercial applications but if they are ever employed in a war with China, they may be all destroyed.


if you ever shot down one sat, the debris would destroy your sats, too. besides, I doubt you dare to shoot down US satellites. the Americans won´t be amused. their sats are as holy, sacred as aircraft Carriers.


----------



## gambit

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> Don't underestimate the CV16 Liaoning as it is indeed a full fledge AIRCRAFT CARRIER which can be very lethal to enemies warships if you study her type of armament or the type of weapon the J-15 are capable of carrying.


What make you think I have underestimate the Liaoning for what she is ? The Liaoning is a training vessel. Her configuration is not likely up to wartime standards. Her crew is still essentially learning the uniqueness of running an aircraft carrier. Her fleet is still in the same status as her crew -- training. The Liaoning is not a credible threat.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> What make you think I have underestimate the Liaoning for what she is ? The Liaoning is a training vessel. Her configuration is not likely up to wartime standards. Her crew is still essentially learning the uniqueness of running an aircraft carrier. Her fleet is still in the same status as her crew -- training. The Liaoning is not a credible threat.



And lets not forget that Liaoning's propulsion is crap, it always navigates with several tug boats because the propulsion can fail at any time.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> if you ever shot down one sat, the debris would destroy your sats, too. besides, I doubt you dare to shoot down US satellites. the Americans won´t be amused. their sats are as holy, sacred as aircraft Carriers.



yes, debris is annoying. But fortunately, China has launched orbit cleaner for debris cleaning.

China launched CZ-7 rocket in June 2016. Many interesting loads carried by this rocket, with *Aolong-1* one of the many. Aolong-1 is a debris cleaner with a robotic arm. The robotic arm could catch orbital debris or even retired satellite and “throw” the orbital trash to atmosphere to make them burned. 

Aolong-1 news article from Xinhua News Agency





No, we won't attack the satellites of any foreign countries. But maybe one day Aolong lost control and put some debris on the orbit of another satellite. A traffic accident on orbit happens. What a sad news.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Bingo!
> 
> we have vinasat-1 und 2 in space, two telecommunication satellites, actually covering Vietnam, Southeast Asia and some "other" countries nearby. both were manufactured by Lockheed Martin. to cover 2/3 of the planet, more satellites are needed, and I guess we rent them from the US, which have some 500 satellites in space. and that explains why only 2/3 and not the whole planet, because the coverage excludes American continent. that means, our Navy can now operate worldwide, our missiles can land on targets with higher accuracy, our fishermen at sea can call our Coast Guard for assistance if seeing intruders, our spies in foreign countries can make secured phone calls to the headquarters. all that without relying on foreign telecom infrastructures.
> 
> have the US lifted arms embargo recently?
> 
> did Locked Martin visit Hanoi?
> 
> putting pieces of puzzle in a picture
> 
> great times ahead
> 
> wishing you have a good business!
> 
> picture of vinasat-2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> launching vinasat-2 in space


And let's not forget this

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=137666

This is official version of GoI


> As part of Space Cooperation between India and Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), at the behest of Government of India, is working towards the establishment of a Satellite Tracking & Data Reception Station and Data Processing Facility in Vietnam for ASEAN Member countries. This facility is intended to acquire and process Indian Remote Sensing Satellite data pertaining to ASEAN region and disseminate to ASEAN Member countries.
> 
> Under this initiative, all ASEAN member countries will be allowed to access processed remote sensing data pertaining to their country.



This is Indian way of saying we are in military cooperation.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> yes, debris is annoying. But fortunately, China has launched orbit cleaner for debris cleaning.
> 
> China launched CZ-7 rocket in June 2016. Many interesting loads carried by this rocket, with *Aolong-1* one of the many. Aolong-1 is a debris cleaner with a robotic arm. The robotic arm could catch orbital debris or even retired satellite and “throw” the orbital trash to atmosphere to make them burned.
> 
> Aolong-1 news article from Xinhua News Agency
> View attachment 324386
> 
> 
> No, we won't attack the satellites of any foreign countries. But maybe one day Aolong lost control and put some debris on the orbit of another satellite. A traffic accident on orbit happens. What a sad news.


I like your humour.

if the report is true, your last kill of a satellite in space created an estimated 150,000 debris particles. many particles are big, many are small. what do you think if

- your debris cleaner can clean all the mess you created?

- how long the "cleaner" takes to clean up the space?


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I like your humour.
> 
> if the report is true, your last kill of a satellite in space created an estimated 150,000 debris particles. many are big, many are small. what do you think if
> 
> - your debris cleaner can clean the mess you created?
> 
> - how long the "cleaner" takes to clean the space?



I like your confidence. You can treat the news as fake. With high accuracy calculation, a small push from debris is powerful enough to change the satellite orbit and make the satellite falling to earth. That's orbit dynamics. That's part of the reason we develop world's fastest computer. 

there are already too many debris on the orbit. We won't expect China to clean all of them in foreseeable future. What we are doing is to gradual cleaning up the large pieces that likely to pose direct threat to our most valuable space assets. 

Even if some of our satellites hit by trash and falling down, so what? We will launch a new one to make the old one replaced. That's it. That's why we develop and test the fast launch system below. You want to run a satellite launching contest with us?


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## gambit

Carlosa said:


> And lets not forget that Liaoning's propulsion is crap, it always navigates with several tug boats because the propulsion can fail at any time.


I did not know that. But then when it is evident that the Liaoning is nothing but a training vessel, I admit I did not keep up with its progress.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> And lets not forget that Liaoning's propulsion is crap, it always navigates with several tug boats because the propulsion can fail at any time.


All the Aircraft Carrier with boiler propulsion are crap. Same case with Indian Navy's INS Vikramaditya.

Boiler is 19th century technology, and of no use in world of CODAG or COGAG. The first high tech carrier in Asia will be INS Vikrant.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I like your confidence. You can treat the news as fake. With high accuracy calculation, a small push from debris is powerful enough to change the satellite orbit and make the satellite falling to earth. That's orbit dynamics. That's part of the reason we develop world's fastest computer.
> 
> there are already too many debris on the orbit. We won't expect China to clean all of them in foreseeable future. What we are doing is to gradual cleaning up the large pieces that likely to pose direct threat to our most valuable space assets.
> 
> Even if some of our satellites hit by trash and falling down, so what? We will launch a new one to make the old one replaced. That's it. That's why we develop and test the fast launch system below. You want to run a satellite launching contest with us?
> View attachment 324420
> View attachment 324421


ehhh I believe you have gone too far now. My previous response was to the poster Capri some lines above, claiming China would destroy enemy satellites once war starts. because in doing so, you would destroy your satellites, too by 1,000,000s of debris particles. well, unless you pushed enemy satellites down to earth or into outer space.

no. I don´t expect China to clean all of debris in orbit, just yours.

no. we have no money nor resources to run a satellite launching contest with China.

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## CAPRICORN-88

Carlosa said:


> And lets not forget that Liaoning's propulsion is crap, it always navigates with several tug boats because the propulsion can fail at any time.


It just shows how much you really understand about Aircraft Carrier.

BTW Liaoning steam engine can cruise at up to 32 knot


gambit said:


> What make you think I have underestimate the Liaoning for what she is ? The Liaoning is a training vessel. Her configuration is not likely up to wartime standards. Her crew is still essentially learning the uniqueness of running an aircraft carrier. Her fleet is still in the same status as her crew -- training. The Liaoning is not a credible threat.



So how long does it takes to train the entire AIRCRAFT CARRIER crew? 

Until another new AIRCRAFT CARRIER is ready. If we take India construction SCHEDULE as an example then it should be more than 12 years perhaps, right! 



Farhan Bohra said:


> All the Aircraft Carrier with boiler propulsion are crap. Same case with Indian Navy's INS Vikramaditya.
> 
> Boiler is 19th century technology, and of no use in world of CODAG or COGAG. The first high tech carrier in Asia will be INS Vikrant.



Really! So in your opinion, INS Vikrant will the first high tech carrier in Asia with its ski-jump ramp although it is only 40,000 tons while the only Indian fighter aircraft that can land on it will be the MiG29K. So what will be the powerplant of the INS Vikrant? The GE LM2500 gas turbine that is similar to those powering the China navy 051B Shenzhen Destroyer today.

China do not use any steam boilers in their warships with the exception of the Liaoning CV-16 whose powerplant came together with the empty hull.


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## Carlosa

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It just shows how much you really understand about Aircraft Carrier.
> 
> BTW Liaoning steam engine can cruise at up to 32 knot



I understand enough to know that is a piece of crap.

Yes, 32 knots, when it works, which is not for long or often. Its a port queen, but I have to say that it also has positives, it is a nice, fat target for the US Navy after all.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> ehhh I believe you have gone too far now. My previous response was to the poster Capri some lines above, claiming China would destroy enemy satellites once war starts. because in doing so, you would destroy your satellites, too by 1,000,000s of debris particles. well, unless you pushed enemy satellites down to earth or into outer space.
> 
> no. I don´t expect China to clean all of debris in orbit, just yours.
> 
> no. we have no money nor resources to run a satellite launching contest with China.


ok. Let's stop the debate on satellite shooting for now and leave the thread to Vietnam military topics.


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## CAPRICORN-88

Carlosa said:


> I understand enough to know that is a piece of crap.
> 
> Yes, 32 knots, when it works, which is not for long.



We do not know that for sure until we checked it out with Russia, China and India.

So in your opinion, all AIRCRAFT CARRIERS that uses STEAM BOILERS are crap,right. 

Well that the only type of powerplant that is made available to India today by Russia. In the case of Liaoning, it came attached to the hull. CV17 will be definitely using China designed and made gas turbine engines.


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## Carlosa

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> We do not know that for sure until we checked it out with Russia, China and India.
> 
> So in your opinion, all AIRCRAFT CARRIERS that uses STEAM BOILERS are crap,right.
> 
> Well that the only type of powerplant that is made available to India today by Russia. In the case of Liaoning, it came attached to the hull. CV17 will be definitely using China designed and made gas turbine engines.



No, I did not say that all AIRCRAFT CARRIERS that uses STEAM BOILERS are crap. I'm saying that that particular Ukrainian propulsion system is crap and if you actually know anything about it, you should know its true.

Chinese gas turbine engines are known to not be very good, Type 52 destroyer propulsion system has quite a bit of issues although not as serious as Liaoning.


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## BoQ77

sorry, Did China just draw a new dashed line around our Vietnam military news section? 
Now they bring aircraft carriers and nukes in here?

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## gambit

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It just shows how much you really understand about Aircraft Carrier.
> 
> BTW Liaoning steam engine can cruise at up to 32 knot


If that is true, that does not say much for the Liaoning as any level of a threat. Keep it as a training vessel.



CAPRICORN-88 said:


> So how long does it takes to train the entire AIRCRAFT CARRIER crew?
> 
> Until another new AIRCRAFT CARRIER is ready. If we take India construction SCHEDULE as an example then it should be more than 12 years perhaps, right!


How about yrs ? Never mind the Indians. Look at US considering how experience we are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_fire

How would the training crew on the Liaoning handle something like what happened to the USS Enterprise ?

Am not saying that the PLAN must create such a disaster to give the Liaoning training crew experience. But what I am saying is that even an unfortunate event can be a learning experience and that cannot be dismissed. What happened on the Enterprise have been studied and responses formulated. In future wars, later generations of USN carrier crews will be better equipped than anyone else on how to handle emergencies like that. This kind of institutional knowledge you cannot buy with money.

But here is something that the PDF Chinese and you missed: Knowing that an opponent is inexperience is itself a tactical advantage.

Because you have been there. You know what it is like being confused, have no or little information to help make decisions, blind, deaf, and dumb. But now you know better and the other guy does not.

Not only that, we have a glimpse of how the PLA operates. Its officer corps is not half as flexible as ours, and its NCO corps is less than half capable as ours. The entire PLA structure is still mired in centralized planning, aka micromanagement. Any real military professional will tell you that the NCO corps is what *WILL* make or break a military. Not some obscure book written a couple thousand yrs ago. Not fervent nationalism. Not political indoctrination. But how do the officers and their NCOs handle crises when they do not have the information they want or even no support ?

The PLA do not have even 1/10th the experience the US military does in modern warfare.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> The PLA do not have even 1/10th the experience the US military does in modern warfare.



You are very generous, they don't even have 1%.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You are very generous, they don't even have 1%.


Autsch...that is a harsh assessment. Haven't the Chinese a lot of warships and sailors capable fighting modern naval battles, well at least in simulator?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Autsch...that is a harsh assessment. Haven't the Chinese a lot of warships and sailors capable fighting modern naval battles, well at least in simulator?



Not at all, Gambit said: "experience in modern warfare". When was the last time that the chinese have been engaged in modern warfare?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Not at all, Gambit said: "experience in modern warfare". When was the last time that the chinese have been engaged in modern warfare?


Ehrrrr actually not yet. Chinese navy still has to prove in real battles. But to be fair, only a handful countries had seen real major naval engagements in the last century: Russia, Japan, Germany, Italy, France, Britain and of course the United States.

But how do you assess Chinese weaponry against ships, for example ballistic antiship missile?


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## Kazakh soldier

Is the Galil assault rifle phasing out the AKs in service with Ground forces?


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## Farhan Bohra

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> It just shows how much you really understand about Aircraft Carrier.
> 
> BTW Liaoning steam engine can cruise at up to 32 knot
> 
> 
> So how long does it takes to train the entire AIRCRAFT CARRIER crew?
> 
> Until another new AIRCRAFT CARRIER is ready. If we take India construction SCHEDULE as an example then it should be more than 12 years perhaps,
> 
> 
> 
> Really! So in your opinion, INS Vikrant will the first high tech carrier in Asia with its ski-jump ramp although it is only 40,000 tons while the only Indian fighter aircraft that can land on it will be the MiG29K. So what will be the powerplant of the INS Vikrant? The GE LM2500 gas turbine that is similar to those powering the China navy 051B Shenzhen Destroyer today.
> 
> China do not use any steam boilers in their warships with the exception of the Liaoning CV-16 whose powerplant came together with the empty hull.


STechnology anything to do with tonnage? Are you serious? 

Neither india use steam boilers in any of warship except INS Vikky, further GE LM2500 used in P-17 and in upcoming P-17 A project.


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## gambit

> Carlosa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, Gambit said: "experience in modern warfare". When was the last time that the chinese have been engaged in modern warfare?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Viet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ehrrrr actually not yet. Chinese navy still has to prove in real battles. But to be fair, only a handful countries had seen real major naval engagements in the last century: Russia, Japan, Germany, Italy, France, Britain and of course the United States.
> 
> But how do you assess Chinese weaponry against ships, for example ballistic antiship missile?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Most people do not understand the significance of immediate post WW II when it comes to military postures.

When WW II ended, the US was the only blue water navy. All the major naval powers were either destroyed outright or severely diminished in size and capability. Yes, naval powers like France and Britain could travel the seas, but not without US support.

http://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/us-ship-force-levels.html

By the end of WW II, as the chart shows, the US have over 6000 ships, ranging from submarines to battleships to aircraft carriers. The US was the undisputed supreme naval power never seen in history. That is no hyperbole, and I am Air Force.

WW II not only destroyed the navies of many countries, the war killed many of their most capable and experience leaders. Further, their countries' industrial base were either destroyed or severely degraded. In the case of Japan and Germany, both were nearly back in the Stone Age.

So if we want to talk about 'modern warfare', immediately post WW II is the start of that era. WW II was the first time fleets fought each other without seeing each other, thanks to air power. That mean -- at least on paper -- any navy without an aircraft carrier is essentially defeated when faced an opponent navy who has one. Would anyone dare to test out that theory ? So far, no one tried.

The Royal Navy have this rule...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Royal_Navy


> The standard called for *the Royal Navy to be as strong as the world's next two largest navies combined* (at that point, France and Russia) by maintaining a number of battleships at least equal to their combined strength.


Not too many countries can afford to exercise that rule. Technology expanded that rule. Back then, the word 'strong' means numerical values of ships, along with how many cannons, and calibers of those cannons, and how fast are those ships.

That is not so today. Modern warfare make it possible for smaller and fewer ships to defeat a numerically larger opponent. So even if China can build more ships than US, the combined value from technology and combat experience factors still have the US on top by a large margin. The PLAN essentially was birthed after WW II. It was a baby when the USN was a battle scarred and hardened adult, and continued to occasionally take on someone to this day.

The PLAN is still struggling to modernize itself while the USN continues rewriting the book on naval warfare. If anyone can do away with the aircraft carrier, it will be US. If anyone can bring back the battleship as a modern combat platform, it will be US. If anyone can make a helo-carrier like in the Avengers movies, it will be US. 

If there is a shooting fight between the USN and the PLAN, it will be a lopsided battle with the PLAN ships ended up as artificial reefs.

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## BoQ77

Bác @gambit what is the most effective way to protect Vietnam EEZ and Spratly islands ?


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Bác @gambit what is the most effective way to protect Vietnam EEZ and Spratly islands ?



This way among other things:

*Exclusive: Vietnam moves new rocket launchers into disputed South China Sea - sources*




August 10, 2016

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusiv...rs-disputed-south-china-230511184.html?ref=gs

By Greg Torode

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Vietnam has discreetly fortified several of its islands in the disputed South China Sea with new mobile rocket launchers capable of striking China's runways and military installations across the vital trade route, according to Western officials.

Diplomats and military officers told Reuters that intelligence shows Hanoi has shipped the launchers from the Vietnamese mainland into position on five bases in the Spratly islands in recent months, a move likely to raise tensions with Beijing.

The launchers have been hidden from aerial surveillance and they have yet to be armed, but could be made operational with rocket artillery rounds within two or three days, according to the three sources.

Vietnam's Foreign Ministry said the information was "inaccurate", without elaborating.

Deputy Defence Minister, Senior Lieutenant-General Nguyen Chi Vinh, told Reuters in Singapore in June that Hanoi had no such launchers or weapons ready in the Spratlys but reserved the right to take any such measures.

"It is within our legitimate right to self-defense to move any of our weapons to any area at any time within our sovereign territory," he said.

The move is designed to counter China's build-up on its seven reclaimed islands in the Spratlys archipelago. Vietnam's military strategists fear the building runways, radars and other military installations on those holdings have left Vietnam's southern and island defenses increasingly vulnerable.

Military analysts say it is the most significant defensive move Vietnam has made on its holdings in the South China Sea in decades.

Hanoi wanted to have the launchers in place as it expected tensions to rise in the wake of the landmark international court ruling against China in an arbitration case brought by the Philippines, foreign envoys said.

The ruling last month, stridently rejected by Beijing, found no legal basis to China's sweeping historic claims to much of the South China Sea.

Vietnam, China and Taiwan claim all of the Spratlys while the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei claim some of the area.

"China's military maintains close surveillance of the situation in the sea and air space around the Spratly islands," China's defense ministry said in a faxed statement to Reuters.

"We hope the relevant country can join with China in jointly safeguarding peace and stability in the South China Sea region."

The United States is also monitoring developments closely.

"We continue to call on all South China Sea claimants to avoid actions that raise tensions, take practical steps to build confidence, and intensify efforts to find peaceful, diplomatic solutions to disputes," a State Department official said.

STATE-OF-THE-ART SYSTEM

Foreign officials and military analysts believe the launchers form part of Vietnam's state-of-art EXTRA rocket artillery system recently acquired from Israel.

EXTRA rounds are highly accurate up to a range of 150 km (93 miles), with different 150 kg (330 lb) warheads that can carry high explosives or bomblets to attack multiple targets simultaneously. Operated with targeting drones, they could strike both ships and land targets.

That puts China's 3,000-metre runways and installations on Subi, Fiery Cross and Mischief Reef within range of many of Vietnam's tightly clustered holdings on 21 islands and reefs.

*While Vietnam has larger and longer range Russian coastal defense missiles, the EXTRA is considered highly mobile and effective against amphibious landings. It uses compact radars, so does not require a large operational footprint - also suitable for deployment on islets and reefs.*

*"When Vietnam acquired the EXTRA system, it was always thought that it would be deployed on the Spratlys...it is the perfect weapon for that," said Siemon Wezeman, a senior arms researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI).*

There is no sign the launchers have been recently test fired or moved.

China took its first Spratlys possessions after a sea battle against Vietnam's then weak navy in 1988. After the battle, Vietnam said 64 soldiers with little protection were killed as they tried to protect a flag on South Johnson reef - an incident still acutely felt in Hanoi.

In recent years, Vietnam has significantly improved its naval capabilities as part of a broader military modernization, including buying six advanced Kilo submarines from Russia.


Carl Thayer, an expert on Vietnam's military at the Australian Defence Force Academy, said the deployment showed the seriousness of Vietnam's determination to militarily deter China as far as possible.

"China's runways and military installations in the Spratlys are a direct challenge to Vietnam, particularly in their southern waters and skies, and they are showing they are prepared to respond to that threat," he said. "China is unlikely to see this as purely defensive, and it could mark a new stage of militarization of the Spratlys."

Trevor Hollingsbee, a former naval intelligence analyst with the British defense ministry, said he believed the deployment also had a political factor, partly undermining the fear created by the prospect of large Chinese bases deep in maritime Southeast Asia.

"It introduces a potential vulnerability where they was none before - it is a sudden new complication in an arena that China was dominating," he said.

(Additional reporting by David Brunnstrom in Washington, Michael Martina in Beijing and Martin Petty in Hanoi.; Editing by Lincoln Feast)

View attachment 324599

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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> You are very generous, they don't even have 1%.


@gambit

True, they rely on numbers. I have the power to destroy all the Chinese that come and go in this forum, alone.



Carlosa said:


> Not at all, Gambit said: "experience in modern warfare". When was the last time that the chinese have been engaged in modern warfare?



I see it all the time! They have been on the Internet and engaging every war. Especially on this site. They all got Super experience in battlefield! No one can argue about it.



BoQ77 said:


> Bác @gambit what is the most effective way to protect Vietnam EEZ and Spratly islands ?



Trolling on PDF every single day.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> If there is a shooting fight between the USN and the PLAN, it will be a lopsided battle *with the PLAN ships ended up as artificial reefs*.



Well, as you know, all that land reclamation that the chinese did, has destroyed the coral around the reefs so there is a great need to rebuild the coral and the most effective way to do that is to sink ships, etc in those areas so that it can create a habitat for the formation of coral.

Hopefully, the chinese navy will make a contribution to rebuild the coral by sending their navy against the US Navy, in which case the chinese ships will promptly be sent to the bottom of the ocean and become habitat for coral forming.



gambit said:


> Most people do not understand the significance of immediate post WW II when it comes to military postures.
> 
> When WW II ended, the US was the only blue water navy. All the major naval powers were either destroyed outright or severely diminished in size and capability. Yes, naval powers like France and Britain could travel the seas, but not without US support.
> 
> http://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/us-ship-force-levels.html
> 
> By the end of WW II, as the chart shows, the US have over 6000 ships, ranging from submarines to battleships to aircraft carriers. The US was the undisputed supreme naval power never seen in history. That is no hyperbole, and I am Air Force.
> 
> WW II not only destroyed the navies of many countries, the war killed many of their most capable and experience leaders. Further, their countries' industrial base were either destroyed or severely degraded. In the case of Japan and Germany, both were nearly back in the Stone Age.
> 
> So if we want to talk about 'modern warfare', immediately post WW II is the start of that era. WW II was the first time fleets fought each other without seeing each other, thanks to air power. That mean -- at least on paper -- any navy without an aircraft carrier is essentially defeated when faced an opponent navy who has one. Would anyone dare to test out that theory ? So far, no one tried.
> 
> The Royal Navy have this rule...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Royal_Navy
> 
> Not too many countries can afford to exercise that rule. Technology expanded that rule. Back then, the word 'strong' means numerical values of ships, along with how many cannons, and calibers of those cannons, and how fast are those ships.
> 
> That is not so today. Modern warfare make it possible for smaller and fewer ships to defeat a numerically larger opponent. So even if China can build more ships than US, the combined value from technology and combat experience factors still have the US on top by a large margin. The PLAN essentially was birthed after WW II. It was a baby when the USN was a battle scarred and hardened adult, and continued to occasionally take on someone to this day.
> 
> The PLAN is still struggling to modernize itself while the USN continues rewriting the book on naval warfare. If anyone can do away with the aircraft carrier, it will be US. If anyone can bring back the battleship as a modern combat platform, it will be US. If anyone can make a helo-carrier like in the Avengers movies, it will be US.
> 
> If there is a shooting fight between the USN and the PLAN, it will be a lopsided battle with the PLAN ships ended up as artificial reefs.



What many people don't understand, particularly the chinese teenage pdf members is that the US has been in a state of war for decades while the chinese military is an ossified military with no war experience whatsoever that is only good at posturing, threatening, bullying and grandstanding, actually all quite similar to North Korea.



Viet said:


> Ehrrrr actually not yet. Chinese navy still has to prove in real battles. But to be fair, only a handful countries had seen real major naval engagements in the last century: Russia, Japan, Germany, Italy, France, Britain and of course the United States.
> 
> But how do you assess Chinese weaponry against ships, for example ballistic antiship missile?



The chinese have good anti ship missiles since they use the tech stolen / bought from Russia and that is something to be concerned about, but if you mean against the US Navy, well, that's another story because a US carrier group has defence IN DEPTH, and I really mean IN DEPTH. They can detect those missiles hundreds of miles away and they have many layers of defence. 

Regarding anti ship ballistic missiles like the DF-21, etc. The US Navy have a variety of ways to deal with that including the anti ballistic capabilities of the AEGIS system, but not only that.

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## Viet

Moving our offensive weapons such as EXTRA land attack missile on Spratlys is a logical step. Next will be AShM such as Kct-15 and SPYDER to counter the threat of enemy ships and airplanes. If not ready happening.

The Chinese may bet, we will sit idle while they build up.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Moving our offensive weapons such as EXTRA land attack missile on Spratlys is a logical step. Next will be AShM such as Kct-15 and SPYDER to counter the threat of enemy ships and airplanes. If not ready happening.
> 
> The Chinese may bet, we will sit idle while they build up.



The EXTRA already fulfils the role of the anti ship missile, KCT-15 systems have a much bigger footprint than EXTRA and that makes them unsuitable for such small islands. That's the reason why EXTRA was bought after all.

Deploying SPYDER would be a big step and it does have a big footprint but, what do I know?.......

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> The EXTRA already fulfils the role of the anti ship missile, KCT-15 systems have a much bigger footprint than EXTRA and that makes them unsuitable for such small islands. That's the reason why EXTRA was bought after all.
> 
> Deploying SPYDER would be a big step and it does have a big footprint but, what do I know.......



They started talking about Spike NLOS

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> They started talking about Spike NLOS



That's a good system for island defence. 25 km range.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The EXTRA already fulfils the role of the anti ship missile, KCT-15 systems have a much bigger footprint than EXTRA and that makes them unsuitable for such small islands. That's the reason why EXTRA was bought after all.
> 
> Deploying SPYDER would be a big step and it does have a big footprint but, what do I know?.......


EXTRA is perfect to bombard land installations, but against ships it is a bit difficult. Although the missile is guided by a drone, I am not sure if it is capable to target fast moving ships.

AShM as Kh-35 or Kct-15 can better. Besides EXTRA with a warhead of 150 kg can't sink a frigate or destroyer. Kh-35 can. According to some reports including IISS we have acquired all three versions of the missile: land, air and sea. So why not Kh-35 on trucks? As for footprint, we do need more land reclamations. A lot more.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> EXTRA is perfect to bombard land installations, but against ships it is a bit difficult. Although the missile is guided by a drone, I am not sure if it is capable to target fast moving ships.
> 
> AShM as Kh-35 or Kct-15 can better. Besides EXTRA with a warhead of 150 kg can't sink a frigate or destroyer. Kh-35 can. According to some reports including IISS we have acquired all three versions of the missile: land, air and sea. So why not Kh-35 on trucks? As for footprint, we do need more land reclamations. A lot more.
> 
> 
> View attachment 324612



Actually, from what I've read, EXTRA is quite ok to hit moving targets that are not too small, but anyway, what you are saying about anti ship missiles is correct, but the footprint is the issue. Sweden has small anti ship missiles that have quite a small footprint and that would be good for island defence. Large systems are an issue in such small islands.

You can reclaim more land if the depth allows, something which is not the case in Spratly island. You can see the map below, they are doing the reclamation where the water is shallow. In some islands there is enough shallow areas to reclaim a lot of land, but it will take time and quite a bit of money.






The map shows the water depth at levels up to 2, 5, 10 and 20 meters deep.

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## gambit

BoQ77 said:


> Bác @gambit what is the most effective way to protect Vietnam EEZ and Spratly islands ?


To 'protect' is to do something effective enough so that you will not have to 'defend'. The difference between the words matter in real life.

To 'defend' is when something is *ALREADY* under attack. It is reactive. This is when violence is the response to violence. At this point, it is either all or nothing. If you lose the fight, meaning your defenses failed, you lose that something.

To 'protect' is proactive and preemptive. You have to make it clear that something will be costly to whoever want it thru violent means. It is less costly to you, in the long run, to protect than to defend. By the time you have to defend -- fight -- you may lose more than just things but people. That is not what you want.

So how do the difference between the two words matter in real life ? The difference affects your policies, your finance, and your military posture.

An enemy do not attack unless he is confident that he *WILL* win. Not that he can win, but *WILL* win. It does not matter if he is overconfident or not. A judgement of being 'overconfident' is external, meaning that judgement is from observers. In the real fight, he may lose, but he would not know it until it is too late. Nevertheless, you cannot rely on hope but on what you can do.

You have to insert as much uncertainty as possible into everything he wants to do so that instead of being confident that he will win, he is confident that he can win. Anybody can do something. In theory, I can go to the Moon. If NASA done it, so can I. The difference is that NASA with all of its resources was confident that it will be successful, not merely can be successful.

*The first item* you need is sufficient resources to create that sense of uncertainty. That does not mean Viet Nam have to start a crash program of military modernization including aircraft carriers, heavy cruisers, etc. If Viet Nam have the money -- great. But financial constraints demands Viet Nam to be judicious with spending so the problem is what kind of resources should Viet Nam feasibly have in order to insert that sense of uncertainty into China's expansionist plans.

*The second item* you need is assessment of what can China deploy to the region to convince you, or create uncertainty into you, that you cannot resist China's moves. The latest assessment now is that China's air power is not as persistent as China's sea power. That mean any conflict, or implied conflict, in the SCS will be ship vs ship. China's air power is still sufficiently weak that it can be deterred by surface response, aka surface to air missiles (SAM). Not yet requiring direct air-air methods.

*The third item* you need is self assessment. What do you have at *THIS* time that you can use to insert that sense of uncertainty into China's thinking ? Viet Nam and the others in the region should get thru all of your heads that China is *NOT* interested in diplomacy regarding the SCS, of which directly affects everyone's EEZ and the Spratly Islands. If China gains control of the SCS, the Spratly Islands are gone no matter how the UN rules and all your EEZs will be violated at China's convenience. What does Viet Nam have at this time that you can use and if you do not have enough of it, can you get the same from others in an alliance ?

The reason China is going thru the diplomacy theater is that China is not yet militarily powerful enough to take the SCS by force. Uncertainty can be a two-way street and China is using that theater skillfully. Everyone likes to think everyone is rational in the sense that everyone want peaceful resolutions to disputes. But history have shown that the decision to act militarily is *EQUALLY* rational as the decision to resolve disputes thru diplomacy. For control of the SCS, the diplomacy theater acts are there to create hesitancy in all of you. China is not being/acting 'crazy' with her military alternative.

My opinion is that no one in the region is militarily powerful enough -- *BY HIMSELF* -- to either create uncertainty in China's plan or to finally fight (defend) against China's military. I have always advocated an alliance. Since the method of protection and defense will be the ship, all of your navies must band together to create that uncertainty for China. Remember, it is better to protect than to defend. That mean everyone must have increased naval presence, not just in their respective EEZs but beyond. Everyone must demonstrate to China that as a collective, you will not be intimidated. Geographically, China have a greater distance to cover and support her navy than others in the region to support theirs.

I told this forum yrs ago when I first came here that after JPN, China will be the next aggressor in Asia.

If you -- everyone -- do not defend the SCS, none of you will have any EEZs.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> *The second item* you need is assessment of what can China deploy to the region to convince you, or create uncertainty into you, that you cannot resist China's moves. The latest assessment now is that China's air power is not as persistent as China's sea power. That mean any conflict, or implied conflict, in the SCS will be *ship vs ship*. China's air power is still sufficiently weak that it can be deterred by surface response, aka surface to air missiles (SAM). Not yet requiring direct air-air methods.



Don't forget that they already built hangars for 72 fighter jets in those islands, so they can already have a substantial air force there, on location. Their H-6K bombers already started to patrol the area and they are armed with long range anti ship missiles.



gambit said:


> The reason China is going thru the diplomacy theater is that China is not yet militarily powerful enough to take the SCS by force. Uncertainty can be a two-way street and China is using that theater skillfully. Everyone likes to think everyone is rational in the sense that everyone want peaceful resolutions to disputes. But history have shown that the decision to act militarily is *EQUALLY* rational as the decision to resolve disputes thru diplomacy. For control of the SCS, the diplomacy theater acts are there to create hesitancy in all of you. China is not being/acting 'crazy' with her military alternative..



Very true, they are all about bullying and trying to scare you so that they can win without having to fight.

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## Viet

*How Vietnam has kept China at bay over thousands of years*

Shadow-boxing and constant vigilance have marked country’s approach to China over thousands of years – the rest of the bloc would do well to follow suit

KARIM RASLAN

PUBLISHED : Saturday, 06 August, 2016, 11:01am
UPDATED : Monday, 08 August, 2016, 3:36pm







Cao Ngoc Diep and her family at their home in Hanoi. Photo: SCMP Pictures


I’m visiting a 77-year-old widow, Cao Ngoc Diep and her family at their ancestral temple-home.

Above one small shrine there’s a haunting photograph of the fallen soldier, Cao Minh Phi, killed in Nha Trang in 1968 by the Americans aged 28, leaving behind a sweet-faced widow and her four small children.

Read more from This Week in Asia

The English-speaking granddaughter Ngoc shows me around the other intricately carved shrines, crammed with deities and offerings of dragon fruit, cognac and cash.

I’m in an unseasonably hot Hanoi, catching up with friends and acquaintances.

Given the recent news about the South China Sea, most people are all too willing to offer their views on China. Indeed, with the border only 175km away, relations assume a certain immediacy.

The granddaughter says in English: “Of course we are suspicious of the Chinese. We don’t like them.” Her grandmother, in Vietnamese, says the same.

Opinions are almost uniformly negative. The night before, a leading journalist recently returned from the Asean Foreign Ministers’ meeting in Vientiane explained: “We cooperate in business and economics, but when it comes to sovereignty, we fight.”

China asks Vietnam to investigate passport defaced with obscenity

It will be interesting to see how Asean comes to terms with an increasingly assertive China.

Could the Vietnamese, with thousands of years of living with China, provide the best template?

In 40AD, Vietnam’s most celebrated national heroines, the Tru’ng Sisters, led a revolt on the backs of war elephants against the Han dynasty. In the 1400s, the nobleman Le Loi drove out the Ming armies, establishing Vietnam’s longest-ruling dynasty. And Vietnam’s hardy soldiers repelled invading Chinese troops in 1979.


*Watch: Protesters torch Chinese factories after South China Sea dispute escalated*

Memories of these conflicts remain deeply embedded in the Vietnamese consciousness. But Vietnamese culture has been heavily influenced by China.

Chinese was the language of imperial Vietnam’s courts, literature and elite. Today, the Temple of Confucius in Hanoi is featured on the back of the 100,000 dong banknote.





Chinese State Councillor Yang Jiechi (left) introduces his entourage to Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang. Photo: AFP


China is Vietnam’s largest trading partner, accounting for 30 per cent of its imports. In Hanoi’s busiest fabric markets, most of the cloth sold is from China. You’ll see “Made in China” stamps on books, bowls, belts, and everything in between. Even Hanoi’s latest infrastructure megaproject, the US$553 million Hanoi Metro, is to be built by Chinese investors.

But the shared history has left the Vietnamese extremely wary of their northern neighbour. In 2014 anti-Chinese protests erupted after China deployed an oil rig in a disputed part of the South China Sea.

‘We must defend our territorial integrity’: Vietnamese prime minister refers to South China Sea dispute after being re-elected

So what is the way forward for China and Asean, especially for countries with a mixed bag of ties with Beijing?

One thing to recognise is that the past matters. Yes, China is an economic reality. But one cannot expect Asean to fall into line just because of that.

As Dr Tran Cong Truc, former chairman of the government’s Committee on Border Issues says: “People find it very difficult to understand how Vietnam and China can both cooperate on an economic front and fight when it comes to sovereignty. To understand it, you must look at the long history between our two countries.”

Nevertheless, as the craggy former senior military intelligence operative tells me, this doesn’t mean ties must be set in stone. Asked about Vietnam’s warming ties with its cold war nemesis, America, he stresses: “Vietnam will support any country that supports its sovereignty.”





Vietnam has common concern with the Philippines, as the protesters outside the Philippines embassy in Hanoi show. Photo: Reuters


One can detect a sense of frustration in Vietnamese officials like Tran on Asean’s dithering on the South China Sea: “When the house of a neighbour is on fire, you don’t ignore it and think, ‘Oh that’s his fire, it’s not going to spread’. If you don’t cooperate, the fire will destroy us all…I really appreciate that the Philippines brought the South China Sea issue to the Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague. We believe that measures like this with Asean are our best route to resolving the issue while ensuring the stability and prosperity of the region.”

China will certainly pay a price if it continues its heavy-handedness in Southeast Asia. As Asean countries weigh up their national interest, there’s no doubt that Vietnam’s model – of shadow-boxing and constant vigilance – will become the norm.

In fact, it may be the best way forward if the region wants to maintain its autonomy. The rest of Asean can certainly learn from how Vietnam preserved both its independence and honour for so long.

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## gambit

Carlosa said:


> Don't forget that they already built hangars for 72 fighter jets in those islands, so they can already have a substantial air force there, on location. Their H-6K bombers already started to patrol the area and they are armed with long range anti ship missiles.


Make it difficult for China to access those islands and those aircrafts will leave.

How much do you think it will cost China to maintain those garrisons ?

Take a look at the GB-Argentina war.

The HMS Conqueror was not in territorial or even familiar water, but after the Conqueror sank the Argentine cruiser Belgrano, the Argentine navy essentially confined itself to port. On the other hand, because the Royal Navy was not in territorial or familiar waters, and Argentine air forces were range limited, their respective air forces essentially stalemated each other, leaving the conflict practically sea based with advantages to the Brits since they have a superior navy.

China's naval air power is not to the Brits' and that is why the stationing of those land based aircrafts are necessary but it is also costly and those costs will be immediate, not to say anything about how much it will be in the long run assuming the generosity that China will be able to impose a peace of her own condition. But if access to those aircrafts are perceived to be difficult in the long term, the estimated combined cost of the PLAN supplying those garrisons, fueling those aircrafts, cycling troops thru, and many other items, those aircrafts will not be there for long. You do not create a garrison without a long term plan to sustain that garrison. This is not the old days where military garrisons were expected to 'live off the land', or in this case -- the sea.

For now, the ship is the main and crucial weapon for control of the SCS.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> Make it difficult for China to access those islands and those aircrafts will leave.
> 
> How much do you think it will cost China to maintain those garrisons ?
> 
> Take a look at the GB-Argentina war.
> 
> The HMS Conqueror was not in territorial or even familiar water, but after the Conqueror sank the Argentine cruiser Belgrano, the Argentine navy essentially confined itself to port. On the other hand, because the Royal Navy was not in territorial or familiar waters, and Argentine air forces were range limited, their respective air forces essentially stalemated each other, leaving the conflict practically sea based with advantages to the Brits since they have a superior navy.
> 
> China's naval air power is not to the Brits' and that is why the stationing of those land based aircrafts are necessary but it is also costly and those costs will be immediate, not to say anything about how much it will be in the long run assuming the generosity that China will be able to impose a peace of her own condition. But if access to those aircrafts are perceived to be difficult in the long term, the estimated combined cost of the PLAN supplying those garrisons, fueling those aircrafts, cycling troops thru, and many other items, those aircrafts will not be there for long. You do not create a garrison without a long term plan to sustain that garrison. This is not the old days where military garrisons were expected to 'live off the land', or in this case -- the sea.
> 
> For now, the ship is the main and crucial weapon for control of the SCS.



You are very right, just recently, one corner of Fiery Cross collapsed into the sea and they had to fix it. Typhoon season just got started. The force of the waves hitting those islands are going to make sure that they'll have to keep repairing them all the time, but I'm afraid that they are willing to pay the cost of that whole adventure, at least for now while they have plenty of money and resources. For how long, we'll see.



gambit said:


> For now, the ship is the main and crucial weapon for control of the SCS.



And since they have a big advantage in surface forces that Vietnam can't possibly change, the countermeasure is subs, Vietnam needs to keep buying those.


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## vtnsx

gambit said:


> What make you think I have underestimate the Liaoning for what she is ? The Liaoning is a training vessel. Her configuration is not likely up to wartime standards. Her crew is still essentially learning the uniqueness of running an aircraft carrier. Her fleet is still in the same status as her crew -- training. The Liaoning is not a credible threat.



don't blame the rookie. He's just learn how to crawl. The guy over estimated everything. He's typical and comical.



Carlosa said:


> And lets not forget that Liaoning's propulsion is crap, it always navigates with several tug boats because the propulsion can fail at any time.



not to mention, Nimitz class allows the jets to recover and exit at the same time. Chinese tech is garbage, they all good at bragging.

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## vtnsx

gambit said:


> Make it difficult for China to access those islands and those aircrafts will leave.
> 
> How much do you think it will cost China to maintain those garrisons ?
> 
> Take a look at the GB-Argentina war.
> 
> The HMS Conqueror was not in territorial or even familiar water, but after the Conqueror sank the Argentine cruiser Belgrano, the Argentine navy essentially confined itself to port. On the other hand, because the Royal Navy was not in territorial or familiar waters, and Argentine air forces were range limited, their respective air forces essentially stalemated each other, leaving the conflict practically sea based with advantages to the Brits since they have a superior navy.
> 
> China's naval air power is not to the Brits' and that is why the stationing of those land based aircrafts are necessary but it is also costly and those costs will be immediate, not to say anything about how much it will be in the long run assuming the generosity that China will be able to impose a peace of her own condition. But if access to those aircrafts are perceived to be difficult in the long term, the estimated combined cost of the PLAN supplying those garrisons, fueling those aircrafts, cycling troops thru, and many other items, those aircrafts will not be there for long. You do not create a garrison without a long term plan to sustain that garrison. This is not the old days where military garrisons were expected to 'live off the land', or in this case -- the sea.
> 
> For now, the ship is the main and crucial weapon for control of the SCS.



not to mention typhoons. God, these Chinese don't think. If a war break out, Chinese refueling tankers and resupply ships will get sunk by US subs. Simple.



Carlosa said:


> You are very right, just recently, one corner of Fiery Cross collapsed into the sea and they had to fix it. Typhoon season just got started. The force of the waves hitting those islands are going to make sure that they'll have to keep repairing them all the time, but I'm afraid that they are willing to pay the cost of that whole adventure, at least for now while they have plenty of money and resources. For how long, we'll see.
> 
> 
> 
> And since they have a big advantage in surface forces that Vietnam can't possibly change, the countermeasure is subs, Vietnam needs to keep buying those.



Time will kill their resources. For now, we can speed up that process by not buying "Chinese Made goods"
Chinese still have a huge problems in their backyard. With 1.4 billion mouths to feed, technically, they are still poor. They can yap there brains off online about how rich they are but the reality is that 1,34,000,000.00 Chinese would be starved to death if they declare a war with the US. China still got to feed their inactive and active soldiers, fuel, bullets, machines, etc. It will be in the trillion dollars. Major cities in China will be under attack, including factories, power plants, railroads, airports, etc, etc. Chaos break out in those major cities. Confusion, fear, anger and frustration rushed in. It will blow a hole through China's head. Yi's head will be displayed on international TV.

1.34 billion Chinese would rather live than die in a war that has no benefit to them other than the crazy Chinese trolls that constantly trolling about how powerful they are throughout the internet.

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## BoQ77

Vietnam decommissioned Su-22s were brought to the Air Force / Air Defence museum in Truong Chinh road, Hanoi.

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## Viet

we must increase our presence at sea. the Navy must get more ships, both surface warships as well as submarines. I would wish we get EXTRA technology from Israel, enabling us to produce en mass of the missiles. Placing them on shore and ships. We could later try to develop a long range version of the EXTRA.


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## BoQ77

gambit said:


> To 'protect' is to do something effective enough so that you will not have to 'defend'. The difference between the words matter in real life.
> 
> To 'defend' is when something is *ALREADY* under attack. It is reactive. This is when violence is the response to violence. At this point, it is either all or nothing. If you lose the fight, meaning your defenses failed, you lose that something.
> 
> To 'protect' is proactive and preemptive. You have to make it clear that something will be costly to whoever want it thru violent means. It is less costly to you, in the long run, to protect than to defend. By the time you have to defend -- fight -- you may lose more than just things but people. That is not what you want.
> 
> So how do the difference between the two words matter in real life ? The difference affects your policies, your finance, and your military posture.
> 
> An enemy do not attack unless he is confident that he *WILL* win. Not that he can win, but *WILL* win. It does not matter if he is overconfident or not. A judgement of being 'overconfident' is external, meaning that judgement is from observers. In the real fight, he may lose, but he would not know it until it is too late. Nevertheless, you cannot rely on hope but on what you can do.
> 
> You have to insert as much uncertainty as possible into everything he wants to do so that instead of being confident that he will win, he is confident that he can win. Anybody can do something. In theory, I can go to the Moon. If NASA done it, so can I. The difference is that NASA with all of its resources was confident that it will be successful, not merely can be successful.
> 
> *The first item* you need is sufficient resources to create that sense of uncertainty. That does not mean Viet Nam have to start a crash program of military modernization including aircraft carriers, heavy cruisers, etc. If Viet Nam have the money -- great. But financial constraints demands Viet Nam to be judicious with spending so the problem is what kind of resources should Viet Nam feasibly have in order to insert that sense of uncertainty into China's expansionist plans.
> 
> *The second item* you need is assessment of what can China deploy to the region to convince you, or create uncertainty into you, that you cannot resist China's moves. The latest assessment now is that China's air power is not as persistent as China's sea power. That mean any conflict, or implied conflict, in the SCS will be ship vs ship. China's air power is still sufficiently weak that it can be deterred by surface response, aka surface to air missiles (SAM). Not yet requiring direct air-air methods.
> 
> *The third item* you need is self assessment. What do you have at *THIS* time that you can use to insert that sense of uncertainty into China's thinking ? Viet Nam and the others in the region should get thru all of your heads that China is *NOT* interested in diplomacy regarding the SCS, of which directly affects everyone's EEZ and the Spratly Islands. If China gains control of the SCS, the Spratly Islands are gone no matter how the UN rules and all your EEZs will be violated at China's convenience. What does Viet Nam have at this time that you can use and if you do not have enough of it, can you get the same from others in an alliance ?
> 
> The reason China is going thru the diplomacy theater is that China is not yet militarily powerful enough to take the SCS by force. Uncertainty can be a two-way street and China is using that theater skillfully. Everyone likes to think everyone is rational in the sense that everyone want peaceful resolutions to disputes. But history have shown that the decision to act militarily is *EQUALLY* rational as the decision to resolve disputes thru diplomacy. For control of the SCS, the diplomacy theater acts are there to create hesitancy in all of you. China is not being/acting 'crazy' with her military alternative.
> 
> My opinion is that no one in the region is militarily powerful enough -- *BY HIMSELF* -- to either create uncertainty in China's plan or to finally fight (defend) against China's military. I have always advocated an alliance. Since the method of protection and defense will be the ship, all of your navies must band together to create that uncertainty for China. Remember, it is better to protect than to defend. That mean everyone must have increased naval presence, not just in their respective EEZs but beyond. Everyone must demonstrate to China that as a collective, you will not be intimidated. Geographically, China have a greater distance to cover and support her navy than others in the region to support theirs.
> 
> I told this forum yrs ago when I first came here that after JPN, China will be the next aggressor in Asia.
> 
> If you -- everyone -- do not defend the SCS, none of you will have any EEZs.



Thank you professor for your teachings, they are more details than Sun Tzu words.
Of course, China not only acts when they feel they have enough power, but also when the proper time comes, such as 1974, 1988 against Vietnam;

I agree, an alliance is needed.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> we must increase our presence at sea. the Navy must get more ships, both surface warships as well as submarines. I would wish we get EXTRA technology from Israel, enabling us to produce en mass of the missiles. Placing them on shore and ships. We could later try to develop a long range version of the EXTRA.










BoQ77 said:


> Thank you professor for your teachings, they are more details than Sun Tzu words.
> Of course, China not only acts when they feel they have enough power, but also when the proper time comes, such as 1974, 1988 against Vietnam;
> 
> I agree, an alliance is needed.



China is two face man. Chinese are messed up ppl. They supported the Vietnam war so that US doesn't move up North and affected them. Then when the war is over and Vietnam won, during the recovery mode and Vietnam struggles for food, the Chinese advanced. They failed because they are nothing but cowards.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Thank you professor for your teachings, they are more details than Sun Tzu words.
> Of course, China not only acts when they feel they have enough power, but also when the proper time comes, such as 1974, 1988 against Vietnam;
> 
> I agree, an alliance is needed.



The only meaningful alliance that can make an actual difference is with USA, assuming that USA is willing to step in and help Vietnam which is something that remains to be seen.
Philippines doesn't have anything, so its mainly symbolic.
Malaysia is still dreaming about leveraging their "special relationship" with China.
Indonesia is trying to stay neutral although that can change in the future.
Russia is not getting involved.
Japan and India can offer support in many ways, but they are not going to get directly involved.
So in the end, when it comes to a real alliance, its only USA, if they wish.
India is a possible second option if they decide to get more involved like with basin ships in Cam Ranh, etc.

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## gambit

Everyone in the region is being shortsighted.

It is not fishing grounds, mineral rights, or science exploration. Those are *DECOY ISSUES*. Each of them, contentious as each is, can be resolved multilaterally without involving the UN or any external actor. Stop thinking about those piddly islands and start thinking like the Chinese: The South China Sea.

The internal jugular vein in your neck is only a few cm below the skin. With a knife at your neck, you can be forced to do and submit to anything.

If China control the SCS, China will have a knife at the economic jugular vein of every country that have immediate access to the SCS. China can and will exercise preferential treatments to the SCS. Immediate access lowers cost. Indirect access raises cost. What China do in the SCS will have effects as far north as South Korea and Japan. It will cost them more to sail around the Philippines to get to Viet Nam and that cost will be passed onto Viet Nam. It will also cost Viet Nam more to sail around the Philippines to get things to the US.

Not even Australia and India are immune, even though they maybe further away. Each of them have a navy powerful enough to keep China in check in the SCS, but for now, each is being equally shortsighted as the Asian countries in the region.

A protectionist US under Donald Trump + the South China Sea under Chinese control = Economic stranglehold for Asia.

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## cochine

SU 30 MK2 air defence division 927 will be stationar in Airbase Kep, in northerner Hanoi.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The only meaningful alliance that can make an actual difference is with USA, assuming that USA is willing to step in and help Vietnam which is something that remains to be seen.
> Philippines doesn't have anything, so its mainly symbolic.
> Malaysia is still dreaming about leveraging their "special relationship" with China.
> Indonesia is trying to stay neutral although that can change in the future.
> Russia is not getting involved.
> Japan and India can offer support in many ways, but they are not going to get directly involved.
> So in the end, when it comes to a real alliance, its only USA, if they wish.
> India is a possible second option if they decide to get more involved like with basin ships in Cam Ranh, etc.


how about *Japan*, the country of the rising sun?

I believe sooner or later we have to decide when we will reach the point, realizing we are incapable to deter Chinese arrogance and aggression by conventional means and non-alliance policy. I begin to like Ms. Tomomi Inada because she does not care of political correctness. she knows, the Chinese love to play the past and justify their present actions here and there. in the south china sea and elsewhere. Japan past aggression is China excuse for everything.
*
*

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> how about *Japan*, the country of the rising sun?
> 
> I believe sooner or later we have to decide when we will reach the point, realizing we are incapable to deter Chinese arrogance and aggression by conventional means and non-alliance policy. I begin to like Ms. Tomomi Inada because she does not care of political correctness. she knows, the Chinese love to play the past and justify their present actions here and there. in the south china sea and elsewhere. Japan past aggression is China excuse for everything.
> *
> *



I did mention Japan, they can offer support, they can help here and there, but they are not going to intervene and lets not forget that they already have a full plate dealing with China because of their dispute for the Senkakus.



gambit said:


> Everyone in the region is being shortsighted.
> 
> It is not fishing grounds, mineral rights, or science exploration. Those are *DECOY ISSUES*. Each of them, contentious as each is, can be resolved multilaterally without involving the UN or any external actor. Stop thinking about those piddly islands and start thinking like the Chinese: The South China Sea.
> 
> The internal jugular vein in your neck is only a few cm below the skin. With a knife at your neck, you can be forced to do and submit to anything.
> 
> If China control the SCS, China will have a knife at the economic jugular vein of every country that have immediate access to the SCS. China can and will exercise preferential treatments to the SCS. Immediate access lowers cost. Indirect access raises cost. What China do in the SCS will have effects as far north as South Korea and Japan. It will cost them more to sail around the Philippines to get to Viet Nam and that cost will be passed onto Viet Nam. It will also cost Viet Nam more to sail around the Philippines to get things to the US.
> 
> Not even Australia and India are immune, even though they maybe further away. Each of them have a navy powerful enough to keep China in check in the SCS, but for now, each is being equally shortsighted as the Asian countries in the region.
> 
> A protectionist US under Donald Trump + the South China Sea under Chinese control = Economic stranglehold for Asia.



Well, don't be so sure about the Donald, he doesn't like China, he is into protectionism in many ways, but he is for standing up to China, something that Obama is not doing much of. The problem with Trump is that is difficult to know how he actually thinks. He'll tell you one thing today and then he reverses himself the next day.

The one that definitely would be best to deal with China is Hillary. No doubt about that.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> The only meaningful alliance that can make an actual difference is with USA, assuming that USA is willing to step in and help Vietnam which is something that remains to be seen.
> Philippines doesn't have anything, so its mainly symbolic.
> Malaysia is still dreaming about leveraging their "special relationship" with China.
> Indonesia is trying to stay neutral although that can change in the future.
> Russia is not getting involved.
> Japan and India can offer support in many ways, but they are not going to get directly involved.
> So in the end, when it comes to a real alliance, its only USA, if they wish.
> India is a possible second option if they decide to get more involved like with basin ships in Cam Ranh, etc.



Actually, SK struggle to handle NK.
Japan and Vietnam share the same faith, that explain why Japan gave much support to Vietnam maritime security recently.
But that's one way support, because Vietnam has not enough long arm to support Japan if needed.

PH, ID, VN, MY, SG ... tried to name ASEAN as the alliance name, but it shows less potential effect in SCS security.
A Malay guy told me that Malaysia know who aggressor is but they are too scared to make any strong act to confront that.
ID and VN seem to be the most promising members of new-SEATO as both paid much attention to enrich the military capabilities. I don't know we could call ID as short sighted or not, but so far they pretend that SCS issue isn't theirs as long as the EEZ around their Natunas island untouched.

It must be a long way for PH to have a powerful Navy, Air force ...

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I did mention Japan, they can offer support, they can help here and there, but they are not going to intervene and lets not forget that they already have a full plate dealing with China because of their dispute for the Senkakus.


oh I realized it. you mentioned Japan.

Fact is Japan as a resource poor island receiving most of fuel via sea routes, also relying on sea for commercial trades, must have special interest in the south china sea. if China seizes control of the south china sea, Japan´s fate is half sealed. along with Korea and Taiwan. sure, Japan has busy days by playing chicken run with the chinese around the Senkakus, but she shall be capable to deal multiple issues on multiple fronts.

Trade routes

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Actually, SK struggle to handle NK.
> Japan and Vietnam share the same faith, that explain why Japan gave much support to Vietnam maritime security recently.
> But that's one way support, because Vietnam has not enough long arm to support Japan if needed.
> 
> PH, ID, VN, MY, SG ... tried to name ASEAN as the alliance name, but it shows less potential effect in SCS security.
> A Malay guy told me that Malaysia know who aggressor is but they are too scared to make any strong act to confront that.
> ID and VN seem to be the most promising members of new-SEATO as both paid much attention to enrich the military capabilities. I don't know we could call ID as short sighted or not, but so far they pretend that SCS issue isn't theirs as long as the EEZ around their Natunas island untouched.
> 
> It must be a long way for PH to have a powerful Navy, Air force ...



We think the same, ID is the only possible one in the future and that would only happen if the chinese start to threaten them which is very possible.


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## gambit

Carlosa said:


> Well, don't be so sure about the Donald, he doesn't like China, he is into protectionism in many ways, but he is for standing up to China, something that Obama is not doing much of. The problem with Trump is that is difficult to know how he actually thinks. He'll tell you one thing today and then he reverses himself the next day.
> 
> The one that definitely would be best to deal with China is Hillary. No doubt about that.


I was not talking about Trump's attitude towards China.

A protectionist US will have tariffs, as the Americans say it, out the ying-yang. So guess how a Chinese controlled SCS is going to benefit China in terms of dealing with these tariffs ? Nothing to do with Trump but with how much it is going to cost doing business with the US. Smaller countries are going to pay more. The Japanese and the South Koreans can go straight across the Pacific with no harassment from the Chinese. But Viet Nam are going to be extorted by the Chinese and pay more for those tariffs. China wins.

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## BoQ77

What if China respect Vietnam EEZ and request NEGO in water near Paracel and at mouth of Tonkin Gulf ?


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> What if China respect Vietnam EEZ and request NEGO in water near Paracel and at mouth of Tonkin Gulf ?



What is NEGO?


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## gambit

BoQ77 said:


> What if China respect Vietnam EEZ and request NEGO in water near Paracel and at mouth of Tonkin Gulf ?


China gains nothing in doing so. Negotiation with one, you will have to negotiate with all. If the terms are agreed to by one, others will demand at least the same terms. All these attempts by China to negotiate with individual countries are nothing but decoy issues.

*China*: How about Viet Nam agree that the South China Sea belongs to China, in return, China promise to respect Viet Nam's EEZ ?

*Viet Nam*: Deal...!!!

Let me put it this way: If I control the street, why should I respect your doorway ?

A promise/deal/contract is only as good as the ability to get justice if that promise/deal/contract is broken. What can the UN do for Viet Nam if China breaks that contract between the two of you ? China is a permanent member of the Security Council. China can spin the story on why she broke that contract and pay enough countries, most of them Third World, on why China is in the right.

Asians should get it thru their heads that China *DO NOT* have any good will towards them.

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## BoQ77

Actually, Vietnam have agreed boundaries with Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, and they made clear which is overlapped which is for exploring together. That's results after negotiation.
And yes, China would agree to that or not,

Between, China and Vietnam there's an agreed line in Gulf Tonkin,
there's no extension of that line, because the extension would break into dashed line.

But we could see that the dashed line term is fading. That's why I assume that Vietnam would make some steps to tell the world that Vietnam would do everything to protect their EEZ.
For example, explore offshore of Phu Yen, Vung Tau ... and ready to record evidence of any interference of China ships to exploring ships. and ready to submit that to the international court. based on the statement of PCA about China dashed line.

China nearly has no occupied reef within Vietnam EEZ


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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> China gains nothing in doing so. Negotiation with one, you will have to negotiate with all. If the terms are agreed to by one, others will demand at least the same terms. All these attempts by China to negotiate with individual countries are nothing but decoy issues.
> 
> *China*: How about Viet Nam agree that the South China Sea belongs to China, in return, China promise to respect Viet Nam's EEZ ?
> 
> *Viet Nam*: Deal...!!!
> 
> Let me put it this way: If I control the street, why should I respect your doorway ?
> 
> A promise/deal/contract is only as good as the ability to get justice if that promise/deal/contract is broken. What can the UN do for Viet Nam if China breaks that contract between the two of you ? China is a permanent member of the Security Council. China can spin the story on why she broke that contract and pay enough countries, most of them Third World, on why China is in the right.
> 
> Asians should get it thru their heads that China *DO NOT* have any good will towards them.



China does not believe in the concept of a win win deal. They only believe in they win, you lose, simple as that and by the way, any deal with China is not worth the paper that is written on. They will violate any deal at the time when it is convenient to them, that's their record.

In their local area, east asia, china sees other countries as either enemies or client states, nothing else.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> China does not believe in the concept of a win win deal. They only believe in they win, you lose, simple as that and by the way, any deal with China is not worth the paper that is written on. They will violate any deal at the time when it is convenient to them, that's their record.
> 
> In their local area, east asia, china sees other countries as either enemies or client states, nothing else.


I believe we should go back to the past, learning a lesson or two from the later Lê dynasty, one of the greatest and longest lasting dynasty of traditional Vietnam, 360 years from 1428 to 1788, how to deal with China. during a period of 360 years, the Chinese refrained from any confrontation with Vietnam. Incredible.

traditional music at imperial court
*





*

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> The only meaningful alliance that can make an actual difference is with USA, assuming that USA is willing to step in and help Vietnam which is something that remains to be seen.
> Philippines doesn't have anything, so its mainly symbolic.
> Malaysia is still dreaming about leveraging their "special relationship" with China.
> Indonesia is trying to stay neutral although that can change in the future.
> Russia is not getting involved.
> Japan and India can offer support in many ways, but they are not going to get directly involved.
> So in the end, when it comes to a real alliance, its only USA, if they wish.
> India is a possible second option if they decide to get more involved like with basin ships in Cam Ranh, etc.


That only happen when Indian Navy's SSN become operational, and India able to deploy Eastern Command's CBG yearly in SCS. And some permanent deployment in SCS.

But I can tell you ,,, that's still a decade away.



gambit said:


> China gains nothing in doing so. Negotiation with one, you will have to negotiate with all. If the terms are agreed to by one, others will demand at least the same terms. All these attempts by China to negotiate with individual countries are nothing but decoy issues.
> 
> *China*: How about Viet Nam agree that the South China Sea belongs to China, in return, China promise to respect Viet Nam's EEZ ?
> 
> *Viet Nam*: Deal...!!!


Firstly, Vietnam never do so. Those are international water and international SLOC. And no country in right mind ever accept this.

For sake of argument, lets presume Vietnam say whole SCS is Chinese. It destroy Vietnam's relation with every party, from Korea to India ,to Japan ,to US. And in the end, Vietnam will be violating UNCLOS.

In no way anyone going to accept outrageous 9 Dash line.

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## Boss Dragun

*Indonesia, Vietnam forge defense cooperation*

http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/106171/indonesia-vietnam-forge-defense-cooperation

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu has expressed his countrys wish to enhance friendship relations and cooperation with Vietnam at a meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart General Ngo Xuan Lich.

Defense Minister Ryamizard arrived in Vietnam on Sunday for a three-day visit, the Indonesian Embassy in Hanoi said in a press statement released on Tuesday.

During the meeting, Ryamizard was accompanied by several Defense Ministry officials and Indonesian Ambassador to Vietnam Ibnu Hadi. 

While in Vietnam, Ryamizard also paid a courtesy call on Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang.

General Lich said Vietnam always considered relations with the Indonesian military and people important and is looking forward to forging traditional relations between the two countries for the benefit of common interests and peace.

At the meeting the two ministers discussed a wide range of issues of common concern at regional and international levels and described as "positive" the existing defense and security cooperation between the two countries, particularly with regard to the implementation of Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on enhancing cooperation between defense officials of the two neighboring countries signed in 2010.

Both sides have agreed to continue the positive development by emphasizing exchange of delegations, conduct joint exercise, to form a mechanism of dialogs to discuss defense policies, continue the joint working group, create hotline communication between the two defense ministries.

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## UMNOPutra

It looks that you are ready "head to head" to fight with PRC to protect and secure your right ...
-----
Vietnam moves rocket launchers into its South China Sea islands - capable of striking Beijing's controversial new military installations in the disputed region

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-launchers-disputed-S-China-Sea-sources.html

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## BoQ77

UMNOPutra said:


> It looks that you are ready "head to head" to fight with PRC to protect and secure your right ...
> -----
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-launchers-disputed-S-China-Sea-sources.html



YEAH as you know, before land reclamation, they are some bunkers put on submerged reefs.

And Vietnam has plenty sites for deploying heavy artillery as we have more than 30 sites in Spratlys.

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## Silent Knight

Unconfirmed reports claimed Vietnam would buy 200 T-90MS main battle tanks, along with several more T-72B3s (upgraded and/or newly purchase). The truth has yet to be revealed, however, a picture has circulated online earlier today.

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## MacanJawa

T-72B3 more reasonable for vietnam, because cheap than t-90 and its T-72B with kontak-5 era and T-90 electronic

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## Carlosa

MacanJawa said:


> T-72B3 more reasonable for vietnam, because cheap than t-90 and its T-72B with kontak-5 era and T-90 electronic



Yes, T-72B3 is roughly equivalent to the T-090A. The Russians just came out with the improved version of it also, T-72B3M.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> That only happen when Indian Navy's SSN become operational, and India able to deploy Eastern Command's CBG yearly in SCS. And some permanent deployment in SCS.
> 
> But I can tell you ,,, that's still a decade away.
> 
> 
> Firstly, Vietnam never do so. Those are international water and international SLOC. And no country in right mind ever accept this.
> 
> For sake of argument, lets presume Vietnam say whole SCS is Chinese. It destroy Vietnam's relation with every party, from Korea to India ,to Japan ,to US. And in the end, Vietnam will be violating UNCLOS.
> 
> In no way anyone going to accept outrageous 9 Dash line.


we will never accept chinese taking control of the south china sea, letting them controlling the fate of our country as well as others in the region. nor will we ever accept chinese military hegemony in east and southeast asia. you can take my words as granted. we have seen major powers coming and going since thousands of years. we want peace and prosperity. we won´t seek confrontation with others. if anyone seeks confrontation, he gets it.



Silent Knight said:


> Unconfirmed reports claimed Vietnam would buy 200 T-90MS main battle tanks, along with several more T-72B3s (upgraded and/or newly purchase). The truth has yet to be revealed, however, a picture has circulated online earlier today.


interesting and the best picture till now, especially with the sticker "comcom" on the turret. ha ha ha.

but if comparing to other pictures of T90MS, it is not exactly as it should be.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Unconfirmed reports claimed Vietnam would buy 200 T-90MS main battle tanks, along with several more T-72B3s (upgraded and/or newly purchase). The truth has yet to be revealed, however, a picture has circulated online earlier today.



The tank in the picture is a T-72B3, interesting.......



Viet said:


> we will never accept chinese taking control of the south china sea, letting them controlling the fate of our country as well as others in the region. nor will we ever accept chinese military hegemony in east and southeast asia. you can take my words as granted. we have seen major powers coming and going since thousands of years. we want peace and prosperity. we won´t seek confrontation with others. if anyone seeks confrontation, he gets it.
> 
> 
> interesting and the best picture till now, especially with the sticker "comcom" on the turret. ha ha ha.
> 
> but if comparing to other pictures of T90MS, it is not exactly as it should be.



Its a T-72B3, the space between the amor plates is what gives you the clue.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> interesting and the best picture till now, especially with the sticker "comcom" on the turret. ha ha ha.
> 
> but if comparing to other pictures of T90MS, it is not exactly as it should be.


Please remember that this is the ERA "clamshell" on the T-72B3 and not T-90A/MS.

I mentioned the rumors about T-72 modernization and newly purchasing for a reason

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The tank in the picture is a T-72B3, interesting.......
> 
> Its a T-72B3, the space between the amor plates is what gives you the clue.





Silent Knight said:


> Please remember that this is the ERA "clamshell" on the T-72B3 and not T-90A/MS.
> 
> I mentioned the rumors about T-72 modernization and newly purchasing for a reason


ah ok...I see it, there are clear gaps between the armor plates.
do the "rumours" mention any number of tanks the army wants to acquire?

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## Silent Knight

You know the Vietnam People's Army, there's no such thing as publicized numbers 

*cough* at least a brigade of T-90MS *cough*

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## Viet

the Army recently tested a Vietnam made fumes spewing vehicle for camouflage: KH-01.
the equipment is mounted on a Izuzu truck 










































what is it good for?
we can darken the sky, taking the view away from other potential onlookers, or...when we are arming the EXTRA

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> You know the Vietnam People's Army, there's no such thing as publicized numbers
> 
> *cough* at least a brigade of T-90MS *cough*



*cough* that means 93 T-90MS tanks since there are 3 battalions with 31 tanks each in a brigade *cough*.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> You know the Vietnam People's Army, there's no such thing as publicized numbers
> 
> *cough* at least a brigade of T-90MS *cough*


actually I wanted to hear more rumours on the number of T72 tanks


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> *cough* that means 93 T-90MS tanks since there are 3 battalions with 31 tanks each in a brigade *cough*.


* cough* I said "at least", not "exactly" *cough*



Viet said:


> actually I wanted to hear more rumours on the number of T72 tanks


Well, you could potentially triple the number of T-90MS.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> * cough* I said "at least", not "exactly" *cough*
> 
> 
> Well, you could potentially triple the number of T-90MS.


Ok

1 brigade T90 and 3 brigades T72. I think that is ok and sufficient for now to defend the northern front, in combat formation with T54/55 panzer divisions.


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## Viet

a look at Orbiter 2. a drone, usually flying at altitude of 2,000 ft, that guides XETRA missile to target. a larger version of the drone, Orbiter 3, is under consideration for acquisition.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/vietnam-ups-interest-in-unmanned-orbiter-3-409675/

Orbiter 2







Orbiter 3. Can fly higher, operating longer







a nice feature: a modified larger version of Orbiter can carry (Rafael) Spike antitank missile. The time has come for armed drones.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Ok
> 
> 1 brigade T90 and 3 brigades T72. I think that is ok and sufficient for now to defend the northern front, in combat formation with T54/55 panzer divisions.


Be more ambitious with the numbers, my friend

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Be more ambitious with the numbers, my friend


Sure I'm ambitious. Have I told you of my dream from our Navy having a squadron of fleet and air defence destroyers? 

I believe we are good at with 4 brigades of modern tanks. More are of course better if budget is available. But I think we would fare better with more submarines as Carlosa repeatedly says it.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Sure I'm ambitious. Have I told you of my dream from our Navy having a squadron of fleet and air defence destroyers?
> 
> I believe we are good at with 4 brigades of modern tanks. More are of course better if budget is available. But I think we would fare better with more submarines as Carlosa repeatedly says it.



Subs is what makes the difference, everything else is window dressing (talking only about the navy).

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Subs is what makes the difference, everything else is window dressing (talking only about the navy).


Well, sub is a contributing factor, while surface assets play the key role in most major operations.

Besides, you can tell them you're there if you don't have surface vessels patrolling the area, especially when your subs are quiet af.

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## Viet

*South China Sea Ticking Time Bomb: Vietnam’s Mobile Rockets Risk Arms Race, War*

22:51 11.08.2016








The placement by Vietnam of rocket systems capable of striking China dramatically raises the stakes over the disputed waters and territories, all but forcing an act of escalation by Beijing.

On Wednesday, Reuters reported that Vietnam had "discreetly fortified several of its islands in the disputed South China Sea with new mobile rocket launchers capable of striking China’s runways and military installations across the vital trade route," citing an unnamed Western official.


The provocation by Vietnam comes in the wake of Xi Jinping’s refusal to adhere to a ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration at the Hague, which found that Beijing’s territorial claims to disputed waters and islands in the South China Sea are without merit.

China argued that the decision was political, and lacked both substantive and procedural merit, most notably because the Hague does not have proper jurisdiction over the case — as the treaty requires both parties to a dispute to submit to arbitration before a legal judgment can be made.

Facing regional and Western pressure to abandon their claims to valuable waters through which some 40% of the world’s shipborne trade travels each day, and under which lies one of the world’s largest oil and natural gas deposits, Beijing has responded forcefully, telling its people to prepare for war.


Beijing has increased combat patrols to the South China Sea, in a show of military might intended to ward off counter-provocation and bring the dispute to a standoff.

Vietnam’s inflammatory posture, however, has raised the stakes, increasing the possibility of war between the two long-time allies, and potentially prompting China to declare an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ), packing the Paracel and Spratly islands with additional military assets to prevent their seizure.

Beijing may engage in military escalation if it suspects that Hanoi is using the mobile rocket launchers to create an anti-access/area-denial capability (A2/AD). The Vietnamese military is one of a few global forces that could threaten China in a conventional war, as it possesses some of the world’s most advanced submarines, purchased from Moscow.

War between Vietnam and China is unlikely, however, as the two Communist countries have historically maintained a dialogue and could orchestrate a compromise. In the broader environment of Japan’s military buildup to oppose China, and the US sitting on Beijing’s backdoor, having deployed the THAAD anti-missile system in South Korea, the possibility of military action by China cannot be understated.


China has long argued that the Obama Administration’s "Pivot to Asia," with its publicly-stated goal of containing Beijing’s influence, is a ploy to encircle China to shift regional stability. Prior to this latest aggressive act by traditionally-friendly Vietnam, the Obama Administration rescinded military and economic sanctions placed by the US on Hanoi nearly 50 years earlier, and began selling weapons to Vietnam.

The geopolitical region has become less friendly for China, in the wake of the Hague ruling, and if Beijing is forced into an arms race, tensions in the South China Sea are unlikely to de-escalate in the near term.



Read more: http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160811/1044179890/china-beijing-vietnam-rocket-war.html#ixzz4H5R3mC89

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Well, sub is a contributing factor, while surface assets play the key role in most major operations.
> 
> Besides, you can tell them you're there if you don't have surface vessels patrolling the area, especially when your subs are quiet af.



I was talking in case of an actual conflict, actual war. Of course need to have surface ships, otherwise can have a situation like when PH lost Scarborough Shoal because they only had one ship that could only stay on station for so long.


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## Viet

Banzai!

Vietnam reportedly agrees to allow more Japan warships to dock at the home ports. Japan okays to pour more money and support for Vietnam naval build-up.

"Win-win" relationship

I believe that is the typical phrase a certain neighbor loves saying all the times.

Japan warships at maneuver
*




*

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## GS Zhou

More money from Japan to support your navy build up??

Open your eyes to look at the fiscal conditions of the Japanese government!!
- Its debt interest payments is 2x of its defense budget! (red boxes)
- Its new debt borrowings is 2.5x of the redemption of the existing debt! (yellow boxes)

Are you serious to place your hope on this "no tomorrow" country?

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## pher

Viet said:


> Banzai!
> 
> Vietnam reportedly agrees to allow more Japan warships to dock at the home ports. Japan okays to pour more money and support for Vietnam naval build-up.
> 
> "Win-win" relationship
> 
> I believe that is the typical phrase a certain neighbor loves saying all the times.
> 
> Japan warships at maneuver
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


haha, japs lauched 8 protests toward China in past 3 days, a record high. of course it wish some dumb country will share the burden with it, and it is not difficult for them to get vietnam jumping on board at all. You will soon resume the life of washing your face with tears, although in a brave expression.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> More money from Japan to support your navy build up??
> 
> Open your eyes to look at the fiscal conditions of the Japanese government!!
> - Its debt interest payments is 2x of its defense budget! (red boxes)
> - Its new debt borrowings is 2.5x of the redemption of the existing debt! (yellow boxes)
> 
> Are you serious to place your hope on this "no tomorrow" country?
> 
> View attachment 325138


ha ha ha... the money Japan provides to Vietnam won´t add significant to the debt mountain. No. it is almost insignificant. Japan should massively increase the assistance as they profit from a free south china sea. Japanese submarines can cruise the south china sea, hunting sharks and pirates. when there is a need to refuel or rest, the Japanese can dock Vietnamese ports. Yes, I place hope on Japan. do you think I am unaware of Japan decade long budget deficit resulting to the current debt mountain? yes, Japan situation is bad, but not hopeless. some reasons:

- Japan government debts are dominated in Yen, not in Dollar or other hard currencies

- as the result, the government can advise the Bank of Japan BoJ to print money as much as it needs. to finance the deficit, pay back debts and interests.

- most of Japan debts are hold by domestic households, companies, and ...surprise... BoJ.

- actually it is a giant pyramid game, especially the role of BoJ. the government advises the BoJ to print Yen and loan it to the government. the government pays back the debt plus interests by the money, the BoJ prints. the BoJ transfers the revenue to the government after deducting the costs. a perfect scheme. in the last years, the BoJ even increases the stakes.

- well, the losers of the game will be Japan private households once the pyramid scheme bursts.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> ha ha ha... the money Japan provides to Vietnam won´t add significant to the debt mountain. No. it is almost insignificant. Japan should massively increase the assistance as they profit from a free south china sea. Japanese submarines can cruise the south china sea, hunting sharks and pirates. when there is a need to refuel or rest, the Japanese can dock Vietnamese ports. Yes, I place hope on Japan. do you think I am unaware of Japan decade long budget deficit resulting to the current debt mountain? yes, Japan situation is bad, but not hopeless. some reasons:
> 
> - Japan government debts are dominated in Yen, not in Dollar or other hard currencies
> 
> - as the result, the government can advise the Bank of Japan BoJ to print money as much as it needs. to finance the deficit, pay back debts and interests.
> 
> - most of Japan debts are hold by domestic households, companies, and ...surprise... BoJ.
> 
> - actually it is a giant pyramid game, especially the role of BoJ. the government advises the BoJ to print Yen and loan it to the government. the government pays back the debt plus interests by the money, the BoJ prints. the BoJ transfers the revenue to the government after deducting the costs. a perfect scheme. in the last years, the BoJ even increases the stakes.
> 
> - well, the losers of the game will be Japan private households once the pyramid scheme bursts.


I like your confidence. It sounds that you have stronger confidence on Japan even than themselves.

I don't want to talk too much on Japan's fiscal condition here, otherwise it will be too much off topic.

Have a good Friday.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I like your confidence. It sounds that you have stronger confidence on Japan even than themselves.
> 
> I don't want to talk too much on Japan's fiscal condition here, otherwise it will be too much off topic.
> 
> Have a good Friday.


I did not tell you the whole story. we bet the Yen will crash in the future, because that will reduce our Yen dominated long term debts to Japan to...hopefully...zero. that is the most exciting scenario. I hope our Japanese friends don´t read posts on PDF


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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> More money from Japan to support your navy build up??
> 
> Open your eyes to look at the fiscal conditions of the Japanese government!!
> - Its debt interest payments is 2x of its defense budget! (red boxes)
> - Its new debt borrowings is 2.5x of the redemption of the existing debt! (yellow boxes)
> 
> Are you serious to place your hope on this "no tomorrow" country?
> 
> View attachment 325138



When was the last time you checked China's debts man? At the rate that China is going, pretty soon it won't be able to afford a military budget.


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## Viet

*Russia Rebuilding Military Airfields in Vietnam, Pacific Islands*
© Sputnik/ Roman Denisov
Asia & Pacific
10:00 12.08.2016

Former Air Force Commander said that Russia is rebuilding its Soviet-era network of airfields in Vietnam and the northwestern Pacific island of Matua.









MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Russia is rebuilding its Soviet-era network of airfields in Vietnam and the northwestern Pacific island of Matua, the country’s former Air Force Commander Army Gen. Pyotr Deinekin said.

"Our aviation is going through a major overhaul, the defense industry is working on next-generation warplanes. The airfield network is being rebuilt in the Arctic, but also abroad in Vietnam, on the Pacific islands, and in Syria," Gen. Deinekin told RIA Novosti.

The Soviet and then Russian Air Force used an airport in Vietnam’s Cam Ranh between 1979 and 2002. Russia’s Defense Ministry said earlier it was going to rebuild a WWII-era Japanese outpost on Matua in the Kuril Islands chain.

On Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin has submitted an agreement with Damascus on the deployment of a Russian air force group in Syria for ratification by the lower house of parliament. It is noted in the agreement that the Hmeimim air facility in Syria, its infrastructure and territory are granted to Russia free of charge.


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## Silent Knight

Looks like people still think that we only rely on the foreign powers to defend our territory.

Seriously...

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## GS Zhou

Carlosa said:


> When was the last time you checked China's debts man? At the rate that China is going, pretty soon it won't be able to afford a military budget.



Debt is a headache to us, but the situation is not too bad now. 

Currently the total government debt is about 35 trillion CNY (11 trillion of central government, 24 trillion of local government). Our GDP is about 70 trillion CNY, so the debt-to-GDP ratio is 50%, much lower than the 230% of Japan, or 130% of Spain.

In addition, when talking about the government debt, pls don't forget the SOEs owned by the government. SOEs is a big amount of wealth. Currently, the total SOE equity (Asset - Debt) is about 40 trillion CNY. And this 40 trillion does not include the portions from the financial groups yet (banks, insurance, etc). So, if the debt situation becomes worse, SOE privatization could still be a big cushion. But does Japan, or Spain has such cushion for government debt?

BTW, China's military budget is very humble. Just 1.9% of GDP, even lower than the 2.3% of Vietnam. 

I'll stop here. Otherwise it will be too off topic.

P.S. if you are interested in the China government debt topic, you can create a new thread and lets discuss there.

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## Viet

Live fire exercise of Air Defence

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## Viet

I think, should China begin stationing squadrons of fighter jets in the Spratlys threatening our territory, the next step on the escalation ladder can be basing our Su-30 bombers in the island chain, too. armed with RVV-AE medium-range air-to-air guided missile.


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## Viet

*Japan to increase defense attaches in Philippines, Vietnam*
JIJI

Article history

Online: Aug 11, 2016

The government plans to increase the number of defense attaches stationed in the Philippines and Vietnam in fiscal 2017, it was learned Thursday.

Japan hopes to promote defense cooperation further with the two Southeast Asian nations as China flexes its military muscle in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, informed sources said.

It also plans to deploy a defense attache in Finland in a stepped-up effort to gather and analyze information on Russia’s moves regarding Ukraine, according to the sources.

The government will make necessary budget requests for the year from April 2017.

As of April 1, a total of 61 Japanese defense attaches were stationed in major embassies and international organizations. One attache each is currently stationed in the Philippines and Vietnam, and the government aims to increase the number to two each, beginning in fiscal 2017, the sources said.

Both the Philippines and Vietnam are locked in territorial disputes with China over the South China Sea.

The increase in the number of defense attaches is aimed at facilitating defense cooperation with the two countries’ militaries through improved information sharing, as well as at strengthening information gathering on the activities of the Chinese military, according to the sources.

Moreover, the efforts to work more closely with the Philippines and Vietnam are intended as a warning against China, which has increased provocations in waters around the Japanese-administered Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea. China also claims the islands, which it calls Diaoyu.

Japan has been strengthening defense cooperation with the two nations.

In April, the Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyers made a port call for the first time in Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Bay, which has strategic importance as it faces the South China Sea.

Japan agreed in May to lease TC-90 training aircraft of the MSDF to the Philippines. The Philippine navy is expected to use the aircraft for patrols and surveillance in the South China Sea.

The government increased the number of defense attaches primarily in the Middle East and Africa after the 2013 hostage incident in Algeria, which left 10 Japanese nationals dead.

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## Carlosa

*Despite China, Vietnam okays India’s plan to drill SCS for oil*
SOURCE: ENS
http://idrw.org/despite-china-vietnam-okays-indias-plan-to-drill-scs-for-oil/#more-104103






Vietnam on Wednesday affirmed that India, being its strategic partner, can conduct oil exploration in a part of the South China Sea, despite Beijing’s objection, as it fell under its Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).

Vietnamese Ambassador to India Ton Sinh Thanh appreciated “strategic partner” India for its “positive” statement on the International Permanent Court’s verdict on South China Sea favouring Philippines’ claim.Even as Chinese state media “advised” India to refrain from raising the South China Sea issue during the upcoming visit of the Chinese Foreign Minister to New Delhi, Prime Minister Narendra Modi is making a political statement by stopping over in Vietnam en route to China to attend the G-20 summit.

“PM Narendra Modi generally has long visits abroad. When he is going to the G-20, Vietnam is the only country that he will visit bilaterally,” Ton Sinh told selected media representatives here. This is the first visit by an Indian PM to Vietnam in 15 years. Former PM Atal Bihari Vajpayee had visited Vietnam in 2005. He set the foundation for strategic relations between the two countries that Modi built on by extending `100 crore line of credit for defence purchases to Hanoi.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> I think, should China begin stationing squadrons of fighter jets in the Spratlys threatening our territory, the next step on the escalation ladder can be basing our Su-30 bombers in the island chain, too. armed with RVV-AE medium-range air-to-air guided missile.


Nope, never do that, ever.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> I think, should China begin stationing squadrons of fighter jets in the Spratlys threatening our territory, the next step on the escalation ladder can be basing our Su-30 bombers in the island chain, too. armed with RVV-AE medium-range air-to-air guided missile.



Are you crazy ?
Don't make that mistake.

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## Silent Knight

The Su-30MK2V regiments officially resumed training flights yesterday. Some vids to celebrate

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Nope, never do that, ever.





BoQ77 said:


> Are you crazy ?
> Don't make that mistake.


it is all about a game of deception. About adding uncertainties into our opponent strategic calculus. Taking out our options will undermine our negotiation power, easing our opponent strategic aim.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> it is all about a game of deception. About adding uncertainties into our opponent strategic calculus. Taking out our options will undermine our negotiation power, easing our opponent strategic aim.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


>


Ok ok good lieve it so for now, just my personal opinion, posting for discussion. cheers.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> it is all about a game of deception. About adding uncertainties into our opponent strategic calculus. Taking out our options will undermine our negotiation power, easing our opponent strategic aim.



Donate Philippines with EXTRA


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Ok ok good lieve it so for now, just my personal opinion, posting for discussion. cheers.


On a serious note.

Deploying fighters in these islands only matters in peace time, as it allows you to create an ADIZ, but the cost of logistics and maintenance would be too high. During war time, those runway and shelters will be obliterated in minutes, Chinese or Vietnamese or Filippino, they all share the same fate.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Donate Philippines with EXTRA


That is a VERY bad idea!



Silent Knight said:


> On a serious note.
> 
> Deploying fighters in these islands only matters in peace time, as it allows you to create an ADIZ, but the cost of logistics and maintenance would be too high. During war time, those runway and shelters will be obliterated in minutes, Chinese or Vietnamese or Filippino, they all share the same fate.


I agree with you. I believe have said NOTHING else. Maybe I will put down my thoughts later here to say what I mean.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> On a serious note.
> 
> Deploying fighters in these islands only matters in peace time, as it allows you to create an ADIZ, but the cost of logistics and maintenance would be too high. During war time, those runway and shelters will be obliterated in minutes, Chinese or Vietnamese or Filippino, they all share the same fate.



Absolutely, the marine environment would be a killer for fighter jets and to have to deploy the whole logistic / maintenance infrastructure would make no sense.

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## Viet

*Vietnam eröffnet Inselfront – Hanoi puscht Militarisierung des Südchinesischen Meeres*

© AFP 2016/ Le Quang Nhat
ZEITUNGEN
14:02 11.08.2016(aktualisiert 14:06 11.08.2016) Zum Kurzlink
Kommersant 

*Vietnam hat mit der Militarisierung des Südchinesischen Meeres begonnen. Nach Angaben der US-Geheimdienste hat Hanoi auf den von China und drei weiteren Ländern beanspruchten Spratly-Inseln Raketenkomplexe stationiert. Sie können chinesische Objekte auf den benachbarten Riffen erreichen, schreibt die Zeitung „Kommersant“ am Donnerstag.*


Es ist die größte Militäraktion Vietnams in der Region in den letzten Jahren. Sie hat bereits negative Reaktionen in Peking ausgelöst. Für China hatte sich die Territorialfrage nach dem Beschluss des Schiedsgerichts in Den Haag zugespitzt, das die Ansprüche Pekings auf die Spartly-Inselgruppe für illegitim erklärte. Das Vorgehen Vietnams widerspricht dem Verhalten der Philippinen, die nach dem Gerichtsbeschluss auf China zugingen, um sich zu versöhnen.

Nach US-Angaben handelt es sich um ESTRA-Komplexe israelischer Herkunft. Über den Erwerb 20 dieser Raketen durch Hanoi berichteten israelische Medien im Februar. Die Komplexe sind zur Vernichtung von Schiffen und Bodenzielen bestimmt und werden mithilfe von Drohnen gelenkt. Eine Rakete wiegt 150 Kilogramm und hat eine Reichweite von 150 Kilometern.

EXTRA ist eines der schwächsten Systeme dieses Raketentyps in Vietnam. Hanoi verfügt auch über die stärkeren Küstenschutzsysteme Bal, Redut und Bastion mit einer Reichweite von 120 bis 600 Kilometern. Doch im Unterschied zu ihnen sind EXTRA-Komplexe sehr mobil und eignen sich besser für die vielen Spratly-Inseln. Vietnam kontrolliert 20 von ihnen, die Philippinen neun, China und Malaysia jeweils sieben sowie Brunei eine. Allerdings ist nicht bekannt, auf welcher Insel dieRaketen stationiert wurden, doch in vielen Gebieten des Archipels sind Chinas und Vietnams Besitztümer nur wenige Kilometer voneinander entfernt.

Laut dem Experten Wassili Kaschin hat die Stationierung der Raketen eher propagandistischen denn militärischen Sinn. Bei einem realen Kampf hänge der Weiterbestand dieser Raketen davon ab, wie schnell sie sich bewegen und sich vom gegnerischen Feuer entfernen können. Die Stationierung der Raketen auf den sehr kleinen Inseln sei reines Gebaren, so der Experte.


*Mehr zum Thema: Chinas Militär vertreibt US-Kriegsschiff aus umstrittenem Seegebiet*


Wie das vietnamesische Außenministerium mitteilte, sind die Informationen über Raketenkomplexe „nicht genau“, allerdings wurden keine Details bekanntgegeben. Das chinesische Außenamt äußerte Protest. „China tritt entschieden gegen die illegale Besatzung des zu China gehörenden Teils der Spratly-Inseln durch Vietnam und die illegale Stationierung von Militärobjekten ein“, hieß es in einer Mitteilung der Behörde.

Wie Satellitenaufnahmen zeigen, errichtet China auf seinem Teil der Spratly-Inseln Dual-Use-Objekte, darunter Radare, Hubschrauberplätze und Wohnhäuser. Das US-amerikanische Center for International and Strategic Studies veröffentlichte am Dienstag neue Aufnahmen, aus denen hervorgeht, dass Peking auf den Riffs Fiery Cross, Subi und Mischif Hallen gebaut hat, die nur für Militärflugzeuge genutzt werden können. Werden diese Informationen bestätigt, werden das die ersten ausschließlich militärischen Zwecken dienenden Objekte Chinas auf den Spratly-Inseln sein.

*Mehr zum Thema: **China und USA auf Konfrontationskurs *

Laut Kaschin könnte der Bau der Flugzeughallen den Konfrontationskurs in der Region verschärfen. „Es wird ein Weg zur Stationierung von bedeutenden Kampfkräften in der Region auf Rotationsbasis eröffnet“, so der Experte. In den Hallen werden anscheinend Aufklärungsflugzeuge und Kampfjets stationiert, die die chinesischen Schiffe bei einem Konflikt um die Inseln unterstützen könnten.


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## Silent Knight

Do not worry, friends, we deploy no missile systems in the Spratly Islands. All of them are here


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## Viet

News of the day

Rosneft, a Russia company, discovers a new gas condensate field in Nam Con Son basin. More drills to other areas are underway, more discoveries are expected. We drill until the earth stands still, whererver the international laws allow. until EEZ waters are darkened by drilling rigs.

That is why I like the Russians. They don't care what the Chinese say. brother Putin seems to be a smart, cool calculated guy.

Also, Indian companies seem interested of more drilling. More news on this and other areas (Brahmos missile) are expected to come during India PM visit, scheduled for 2 and 3, September.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> News of the day
> 
> Rosneft, a Russia company, discovers a new gas condensate field in Nam Con Son basin. More drills to other areas are underway, more discoveries are expected. We drill until the earth stands still, whererver the international laws allow. until EEZ waters are darkened by drilling rigs.
> 
> That is why I like the Russians. They don't care what the Chinese say. brother Putin seems to be a smart, cool calculated guy.
> 
> Also, Indian companies seem interested of more drilling. More news on this and other areas (Brahmos missile) are expected to come during India PM visit, scheduled for 2 and 3, September.




I think this post should be in Economic news.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> I think this post should be in Economic news.


If the news was merely economic, I would not have posted here.


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## vtnsx

BoQ77 said:


> I think this post should be in Economic news.





Viet said:


> If the news was merely economic, I would not have posted here.



Meanwhile, we all should party in Saigon!


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> Meanwhile, we all should party in Saigon!


Attention. BoQ will tell you to post it in member section


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## BoQ77

as I noticed those section inactive


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> as I noticed those section inactive


I lost interest of updating the economy thread. do you want to make it?

Vietnam light armor vehicle BTR-152, equipped by 1 x machine gun 7,62mm, 1 x anti aircraft gun 12,7mm.


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## Viet

*Südchinesisches Meer: Kriegsdrohung in neun Punkten*
JOHNNY ERLING AUS PEKING

29. Juli 2016


*Seit dem Schiedsspruch von Den Haag verschärfen Vietnam und die Philippinen ihren Reisepassstreit mit China*



Urlauber aus der Volksrepublik China halten an Vietnams internationalem Grenzübergang Mong Cai den Betrieb auf. Bis zu 3.000 Chinesen kommen hier täglich durch. Doch seit kurzem durchforsten Grenzbeamte ihre Pässe dahingehend, ob darin ein Visum eines vietnamesischen Konsulats klebt. Das wäre fatal, wenn es sich um einen der neuen Reiseausweise der Volksrepublik handelt, die seit Mai 2012 im Umlauf sind. Die Beamten müssten es ungültig stempeln. Nur wenn das Visum auf einem Extrablatt ausgestellt ist, lassen sie den Besucher einreisen. Das dauert.

Der Passstreit Chinas mit Vietnam und den Philippinen gärt seit 2012, nun ist er erneut ausgebrochen. Der Ständige Schiedshof in Den Haag hatte der Volksrepublik das Recht abgesprochen, das gesamte Südchinesische Meer innerhalb einer Neun-Strich-Linie (Nine-Dash-Line) für sich beanspruchen zu können. Stein des Anstoßes wurde, dass ausgerechnet diese gestrichelte Linie in den Reisepässen auf den Seiten 8, 24 und 46 eingeprägt ist. Über die Nine-Dash-Line meldet Peking seinen Anspruch auf mehr als 80 Prozent des 3,5 Millionen Quadratkilometer großen Meeres an. Die Begrenzung führt U-förmig an der Küste von Vietnam, den Philippinen, Malaysia, Brunei und Indonesien vorbei und beschneidet deren Rechte. Vietnam und die Philippinen weisen diese Grenzziehung zurück. Sie tun das mit noch mehr Nachdruck, seit sie von Den Haag recht bekommen haben.







Die Spratly-Inseln (chinesisch: Nansha) in Südchinesischen Meer im Jahr 2015.


foto: reuters

*Auf Elf-Punkte-Linie erweitert*
Chinas staatliche Nachrichten-Webseite "Pengpai" (The Paper) beschwerte sich über die Schikanen an der Grenze. Der Ärger mit den Pässen ist nur ein Stellvertreterkonflikt für die nach dem Schiedsspruch gestiegenen Spannungen. Chinas Regierung heizt sie noch an. Sie verdammte das Urteil als "null und nichtig", als "politische Farce", hinter der die USA und Japan stünden, und denunzierte das Gericht als "befangen und bestochen". Pekinger Tageszeitungen erschienen am Tag nach dem Urteil mit demonstrativen Titelseiten, auf denen die Nine-Dash-Line abgebildet war. Die "Peking-Morgenzeitung" erweiterte sie gar zur "Grenzlinie mit elf Punkten".

Das war sie anfangs auch. Die Sprecherin von Chinas Parlament, Fu Ying, und der international anerkannte Seerechtsexperte Gao Zhiguo erklärten nach Pekinger Lesart die Herkunft der ominösen Grenzziehung: Chinas Kuomintang-Nationalregierung (KMT) hatte nach Japans Kapitulation 1945 alle von Tokio zuvor besetzen Seestützpunkte und Inseln im Südchinesischen Meer zugesprochen bekommen. Grundlage waren die Abkommen der Alliierten von Kairo (1943) und Potsdam (1945). 1947 ließ das KMT-Innenministerium 159 (nach Gao 172) Inseln, Riffe und Sandbänke im Meer vermessen, registrieren und neu benennen. Das Ministerium ließ einen internen Atlas der territorialen Gewässer publizieren und um sie herum eine "Elf-Punkte-Linie" zeichnen. Fu Ying schreibt, dass weder die USA noch Anrainerstaaten Einspruch erhoben, obwohl sie "sicher davon wussten. Es ist offensichtlich, dass sie Chinas Haltung dazu anerkannten."

1949 übernahm die Volksrepublik in Rechtsnachfolge die Ansprüche über das Meer. Sie zog die Nine-Dash-Line (also neun und nicht elf Striche) darum, nachdem sie 1953 die beiden letzten "Punkte" vor Vietnams Küste und vor dem Golf von Tonkin gestrichen hatte. Wegen der damals "guten Beziehungen", schreibt Gao Zhiguo.


*Potenzielle Kriegsdrohung*
Chinas Anspruch auf die Nine-Dash-Line um das Südchinesische Meer, von der es seine Berechtigung ableitet, dort tun und lassen zu können, was es will, wird heute von seinen Nachbarstaaten als potenzielle Kriegsdrohung angesehen. Daher versichert Peking, dass die Freiheit der Navigation für die Handelsseefahrt nicht tangiert sei und es bereit ist, alle Probleme mit den Anrainerstaaten bilateral auszuhandeln. Doch es beansprucht zugleich die absoluten Besitzrechte über alle Inseln und Gewässer.

Zur Abschreckung der Anrainerstaaten und als Warnung an die USA, sich nicht einzumischen, organisierte China nach dem Schiedsspruch dreitägige Seemanöver im Südchinesischen Meer. Es ließ Flugzeuge auf seinen seit zwei Jahren zu künstlichen Inselplattformen aufgeschütteten Riffen im Nansha-(Spratly-)Gebiet landen und einen Bomber darüberfliegen.


*China spielt auf Zeit*
Schwere Provokationen sind von Peking nicht zu erwarten. China will trotz des Urteils vor allem seinen bisherigen Status schützen und geht nur Schritt um Schritt vor. Es spielt auf Zeit, bis es genug Einfluss und militärische Kraft besitzt, die Lage zu seinen Gunsten zu verändern. Nach 2020 könnte es so weit sein. Am Freitag veröffentlichten Chinas Medien einen neuen mehrseitigen Beschluss der drei mächtigsten Gremien des Landes. Zentralkomitee, Staatsrat und Zentrale Militärkommission modernisieren ihre Militärdoktrin. Statt "gleichgewichtiger Entwicklung von Militär- und Wirtschaftsaufbau" will Peking bis 2020 Militär und zivilen Wirtschaftsaufbau "miteinander verzahnt entwickeln". Durch Integration soll es zu mehr Synergien und Innovationen für beide Bereiche kommen. Eines der "strategischen Ziele" ist, eine starke Marine aufzubauen, die die Ozeane erschließen, ihre maritime Macht verteidigen und Chinas überseeische Interessen schützen kann.

Wie weit China im Südchinesischen Meer davon noch entfernt ist, verriet "China Daily". Sie meldete stolz den Anschluss der weit über 1.000 Kilometer entfernten künstlichen Inseln Chinas an das 4G-Internet der chinesischen Telekom als Zeichen dafür, wie tief China im Meer Fuß gefasst hat. Die Ingenieure klagten aber, dass sie 60 Schiffsstunden bräuchten, um von Hainan aus zu den Inseln zu kommen. Sie hätten Probleme, eine stabile Stromversorgung für die 4G-Station aufzubauen und diese auf den immer wieder von Meerwasser überfluteten Riffen vor Korrosion zu schützen. 


(Johnny Erling aus Peking, 29.7.2016)


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Südchinesisches Meer: Kriegsdrohung in neun Punkten*
> JOHNNY ERLING AUS PEKING
> 
> 29. Juli 2016
> 
> 
> *Seit dem Schiedsspruch von Den Haag verschärfen Vietnam und die Philippinen ihren Reisepassstreit mit China*
> 
> 
> 
> Urlauber aus der Volksrepublik China halten an Vietnams internationalem Grenzübergang Mong Cai den Betrieb auf. Bis zu 3.000 Chinesen kommen hier täglich durch. Doch seit kurzem durchforsten Grenzbeamte ihre Pässe dahingehend, ob darin ein Visum eines vietnamesischen Konsulats klebt. Das wäre fatal, wenn es sich um einen der neuen Reiseausweise der Volksrepublik handelt, die seit Mai 2012 im Umlauf sind. Die Beamten müssten es ungültig stempeln. Nur wenn das Visum auf einem Extrablatt ausgestellt ist, lassen sie den Besucher einreisen. Das dauert.
> 
> Der Passstreit Chinas mit Vietnam und den Philippinen gärt seit 2012, nun ist er erneut ausgebrochen. Der Ständige Schiedshof in Den Haag hatte der Volksrepublik das Recht abgesprochen, das gesamte Südchinesische Meer innerhalb einer Neun-Strich-Linie (Nine-Dash-Line) für sich beanspruchen zu können. Stein des Anstoßes wurde, dass ausgerechnet diese gestrichelte Linie in den Reisepässen auf den Seiten 8, 24 und 46 eingeprägt ist. Über die Nine-Dash-Line meldet Peking seinen Anspruch auf mehr als 80 Prozent des 3,5 Millionen Quadratkilometer großen Meeres an. Die Begrenzung führt U-förmig an der Küste von Vietnam, den Philippinen, Malaysia, Brunei und Indonesien vorbei und beschneidet deren Rechte. Vietnam und die Philippinen weisen diese Grenzziehung zurück. Sie tun das mit noch mehr Nachdruck, seit sie von Den Haag recht bekommen haben.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Die Spratly-Inseln (chinesisch: Nansha) in Südchinesischen Meer im Jahr 2015.
> 
> 
> foto: reuters
> 
> *Auf Elf-Punkte-Linie erweitert*
> Chinas staatliche Nachrichten-Webseite "Pengpai" (The Paper) beschwerte sich über die Schikanen an der Grenze. Der Ärger mit den Pässen ist nur ein Stellvertreterkonflikt für die nach dem Schiedsspruch gestiegenen Spannungen. Chinas Regierung heizt sie noch an. Sie verdammte das Urteil als "null und nichtig", als "politische Farce", hinter der die USA und Japan stünden, und denunzierte das Gericht als "befangen und bestochen". Pekinger Tageszeitungen erschienen am Tag nach dem Urteil mit demonstrativen Titelseiten, auf denen die Nine-Dash-Line abgebildet war. Die "Peking-Morgenzeitung" erweiterte sie gar zur "Grenzlinie mit elf Punkten".
> 
> Das war sie anfangs auch. Die Sprecherin von Chinas Parlament, Fu Ying, und der international anerkannte Seerechtsexperte Gao Zhiguo erklärten nach Pekinger Lesart die Herkunft der ominösen Grenzziehung: Chinas Kuomintang-Nationalregierung (KMT) hatte nach Japans Kapitulation 1945 alle von Tokio zuvor besetzen Seestützpunkte und Inseln im Südchinesischen Meer zugesprochen bekommen. Grundlage waren die Abkommen der Alliierten von Kairo (1943) und Potsdam (1945). 1947 ließ das KMT-Innenministerium 159 (nach Gao 172) Inseln, Riffe und Sandbänke im Meer vermessen, registrieren und neu benennen. Das Ministerium ließ einen internen Atlas der territorialen Gewässer publizieren und um sie herum eine "Elf-Punkte-Linie" zeichnen. Fu Ying schreibt, dass weder die USA noch Anrainerstaaten Einspruch erhoben, obwohl sie "sicher davon wussten. Es ist offensichtlich, dass sie Chinas Haltung dazu anerkannten."
> 
> 1949 übernahm die Volksrepublik in Rechtsnachfolge die Ansprüche über das Meer. Sie zog die Nine-Dash-Line (also neun und nicht elf Striche) darum, nachdem sie 1953 die beiden letzten "Punkte" vor Vietnams Küste und vor dem Golf von Tonkin gestrichen hatte. Wegen der damals "guten Beziehungen", schreibt Gao Zhiguo.
> 
> 
> *Potenzielle Kriegsdrohung*
> Chinas Anspruch auf die Nine-Dash-Line um das Südchinesische Meer, von der es seine Berechtigung ableitet, dort tun und lassen zu können, was es will, wird heute von seinen Nachbarstaaten als potenzielle Kriegsdrohung angesehen. Daher versichert Peking, dass die Freiheit der Navigation für die Handelsseefahrt nicht tangiert sei und es bereit ist, alle Probleme mit den Anrainerstaaten bilateral auszuhandeln. Doch es beansprucht zugleich die absoluten Besitzrechte über alle Inseln und Gewässer.
> 
> Zur Abschreckung der Anrainerstaaten und als Warnung an die USA, sich nicht einzumischen, organisierte China nach dem Schiedsspruch dreitägige Seemanöver im Südchinesischen Meer. Es ließ Flugzeuge auf seinen seit zwei Jahren zu künstlichen Inselplattformen aufgeschütteten Riffen im Nansha-(Spratly-)Gebiet landen und einen Bomber darüberfliegen.
> 
> 
> *China spielt auf Zeit*
> Schwere Provokationen sind von Peking nicht zu erwarten. China will trotz des Urteils vor allem seinen bisherigen Status schützen und geht nur Schritt um Schritt vor. Es spielt auf Zeit, bis es genug Einfluss und militärische Kraft besitzt, die Lage zu seinen Gunsten zu verändern. Nach 2020 könnte es so weit sein. Am Freitag veröffentlichten Chinas Medien einen neuen mehrseitigen Beschluss der drei mächtigsten Gremien des Landes. Zentralkomitee, Staatsrat und Zentrale Militärkommission modernisieren ihre Militärdoktrin. Statt "gleichgewichtiger Entwicklung von Militär- und Wirtschaftsaufbau" will Peking bis 2020 Militär und zivilen Wirtschaftsaufbau "miteinander verzahnt entwickeln". Durch Integration soll es zu mehr Synergien und Innovationen für beide Bereiche kommen. Eines der "strategischen Ziele" ist, eine starke Marine aufzubauen, die die Ozeane erschließen, ihre maritime Macht verteidigen und Chinas überseeische Interessen schützen kann.
> 
> Wie weit China im Südchinesischen Meer davon noch entfernt ist, verriet "China Daily". Sie meldete stolz den Anschluss der weit über 1.000 Kilometer entfernten künstlichen Inseln Chinas an das 4G-Internet der chinesischen Telekom als Zeichen dafür, wie tief China im Meer Fuß gefasst hat. Die Ingenieure klagten aber, dass sie 60 Schiffsstunden bräuchten, um von Hainan aus zu den Inseln zu kommen. Sie hätten Probleme, eine stabile Stromversorgung für die 4G-Station aufzubauen und diese auf den immer wieder von Meerwasser überfluteten Riffen vor Korrosion zu schützen.
> 
> 
> (Johnny Erling aus Peking, 29.7.2016)



Man, why do you post articles in German? At least put it through Google translate.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Man, why do you post articles in German? At least put it through Google translate.


bro the Germans have one of best foreign correspondent networks. There are reports and analysis you can't read in English media. It is not only a different view but how the Germans, Austria and Swiss media cover a critical topic. Non biased ways. Besides I want to see how others react when I post non-english articles, considering chinese or indonesia members love posting in their languages all the time 

Ok I will summarize the points later.

By the way, the deployment of the EXTRA to the Spratlys is most probably coordinated and okayed by the White House. A week before Reuters drops the bomb, a _Vietnamese delegation led by Deputy Foreign Minister Ha Kim Ngoc went to Washington D.C, holding a "regular" political consultation._


_



_

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## Viet

Carlosa 

I am a bit lazy to put translating the whole German article into English and then improve it by hand. basically it summarizes what we all know. Except one thing. The most worriesome. China's three most powerful political entities, the central party committee, the government and central military commission, recently decided a change of strategy. A major shift. Economy and military enjoy the same privilege. Moreover both should closely work together, developing a intertwined industrial military complex. The goal is set for 2020. By then China should be ready for a physical confrontation. A war. Has Chinese defence minister called all Chinese people to prepare for a people's war at sea?

We should develop a strategy how to counter the threat. I believe the deployment of EXTRA is just the beginning.

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## Viet

Looks we experience delay in getting the 6th Kilo class Submarine: 187 Bà Riạ-Vũng Tàu
the sub should have beeen delivered in Mid 2016. The sea trails last longer than expected.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bro the Germans have one of best foreign correspondent networks. There are reports and analysis you can't read in English media. It is not only a different view but how the Germans, Austria and Swiss media cover a critical topic. Non biased ways. Besides I want to see how others react when I post non-english articles, considering chinese or indonesia members love posting in their languages all the time
> 
> Ok I will summarize the points later.
> 
> By the way, the deployment of the EXTRA to the Spratlys is most probably coordinated and okayed by the White House. A week before Reuters drops the bomb, a _Vietnamese delegation led by Deputy Foreign Minister Ha Kim Ngoc went to Washington D.C, holding a "regular" political consultation._
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _



I understand, but I think a google translate version is easier for the readers, but whatever you can do will be fine. I'm in China now, Google is blocked here.



Viet said:


> Carlosa
> 
> I am a bit lazy to put translating the whole German article into English and then improve it by hand. basically it summarizes what we all know. Except one thing. The most worriesome. China's three most powerful political entities, the central party committee, the government and central military commission, recently decided a change of strategy. A major shift. Economy and military enjoy the same privilege. Moreover both should closely work together, developing a intertwined industrial military complex. The goal is set for 2020. By then China should be ready for a physical confrontation. A war. Has Chinese defence minister called all Chinese people to prepare for a people's war at sea?
> 
> We should develop a strategy how to counter the threat. I believe the deployment of EXTRA is just the beginning.



Interesting, I thought that it was a bit unusual that USA didn't complain about the EXTRA deployment.



Viet said:


> Carlosa
> 
> I am a bit lazy to put translating the whole German article into English and then improve it by hand. basically it summarizes what we all know. Except one thing. The most worriesome. China's three most powerful political entities, the central party committee, the government and central military commission, recently decided a change of strategy. A major shift. Economy and military enjoy the same privilege. Moreover both should closely work together, developing a intertwined industrial military complex. The goal is set for 2020. By then China should be ready for a physical confrontation. A war. Has Chinese defence minister called all Chinese people to prepare for a people's war at sea?
> 
> We should develop a strategy how to counter the threat. I believe the deployment of EXTRA is just the beginning.



How unusual.

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## BoQ77

Vietnam deployed 24 Su-30MK2 to Kep airbase as planned.


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## William Hung

Deployment of EXTRA needs to be “okayed” by the White House???

umm NO, since when does VN need to ask permission for such things? even if EXTRA were indeed deployed in the Spratlys, preparations for such deployment would take a lot more time than just mere days after the Deputy FM visited the US.


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## Viet

Lighthouses


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## Viet

@waz
@WebMaster 

Can you remove the non-flag-shown poster @William Hung from this thread please?

He is a low life troller, a stalker. He contributes nothing except jumping in once a while making comments if he sees something that is not fitting in his narrow mindset. He once promised to quit this forum forever. I wonder why he is here luring around.

Thank you


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> @waz
> @WebMaster
> 
> Can you remove the non-flag-shown poster @William Hung from this thread please?
> 
> He is a low life troller, a stalker. He contributes nothing except jumping in once a while making comments if he sees something that is not fitting in his narrow mindset. He once promised to quit this forum forever. I wonder why he is here luring around.
> 
> Thank you



What are you going on about?

You’ve made some preposterous theory (about Vietnam coordinating and asking the White House to “okay” the EXTRA rocket deployment) so I have the right to refute or argue against it. This is a public forum, you give your theory on this public forum then I have the right to refute or question it. If you don’t like it then don’t make such theory on this public forum. 

Don’t get immature and start rambling if I refute a questionable theory of yours that you have posted on a *public discussion* forum.

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## Silent Knight

I agree.

Vietnam needs no such "permission" or "okay" from any foreign countries to deploy weapon systems in our legimate sovereignty.


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## Viet

William Hung said:


> What are you going on about?
> 
> You’ve made some preposterous theory (about Vietnam coordinating and asking the White House to “okay” the EXTRA rocket deployment) so I have the right to refute or argue against it. This is a public forum, you give your theory on this public forum then I have the right to refute or question it. If you don’t like it then don’t make such theory on this public forum.
> 
> Don’t get immature and start rambling if I refute a questionable theory of yours that you have posted on a *public discussion* forum.


I have no interest of talking to you.



Silent Knight said:


> I agree.
> 
> Vietnam needs no such "permission" or "okay" from any foreign countries to deploy weapon systems in our legimate sovereignty.


Okayed means "no objection" is what I wanted to say. Sure, Vietnam is a sovereign nation, can decide and need no permission from anyone. Nor "ok" from any party. But keep in mind, we are not living in a vacuum, with no neighbors close by, no disputes, no foreign warships nor planes cruising the contested region. It is about making clear about own intention and avoiding misunderstanding.

I am willing to bet, Vietnam has communicated the EXTRA deployment with the United States. And America has no objection, having the balance of powers in mind, given Chinese military buildup in the Spratlys.

I don't wonder either if Vietnam informed Russia leadership in advance.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> I have no interest of talking to you.



huh? I didn’t asked you to talk to me. I’m telling you, if you post your own theories in a public forum, then I (or any one else) have the right to dispute or refute it. Whether you read or address my refutation does not matter, I can just post it just like you can post your theory. Don’t keep acting immature and repeat your attacking rant, its getting old and out of hand.


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## Viet

William Hung said:


> huh? I didn’t asked you to talk to me. I’m telling you, if you post your own theories in a public forum, then I (or any one else) have the right to dispute or refute it. Whether you read or address my refutation does not matter, I can just post it just like you can post your theory. Don’t keep acting immature and repeat your attacking rant, its getting old and out of hand.


Ha ha ha

Yes it is a public forum, everybody can post opinion, expressing theory, asking question. But it is up to any individual that responds to the question or not. Have you seen that? I responded to Slient Knight. But not you. Because you have a history of ill intentions, twisting words, making harassment. But true, actually I am too old for such immature bullshit.


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## William Hung

Viet said:


> Ha ha ha
> 
> Yes it is a public forum, everybody can post opinion, expressing theory, asking question. But it is up to any individual that responds to the question or not. Have you seen that? I responded to Slient Knight. But not you. Because you have a history of ill intentions, twisting words, making harassment. But true, actually I am too old for such immature bullshit.



Huh? again I didn’t say you need to reapond. I just post my refutation if I see posts or comments that are irrational. You are free to post your opinions, and so am I free to post my refutation on it, regardless if you read or respond to my post. Is that clear? then stop jumping up and down whenever I make refutations.


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## Viet

What an idiot!

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> What an idiot!


All of these viet cong are so gullible. Without the U.S's approval, Israel would not even dare to sell any of those missiles or radar to viet cong. 

Just look at the viet cong troopers in that 1988 Spratly "battle". None of the viet cong dare to fire any "first", second, third, or nth shot at the Chinese. Even viet cong general revealed later that viet cong were not allowed to shoot at the Chinese.

Now, the viet cong have the gut to bring extra artillery rockets to the Spratly without any kind of "assurance" from Washington D.C? Yeah, right.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> All of these viet cong are so gullible. Without the U.S's approval, Israel would not even dare to sell any of those missiles or radar to viet cong.
> 
> Just look at the viet cong troopers in that 1988 Spratly "battle". None of the viet cong dare to fire any "first", second, third, or nth shot at the Chinese. Even viet cong general revealed later that viet cong were not allowed to shoot at the Chinese.
> 
> Now, the viet cong have the gut to bring extra artillery rockets to the Spratly without any kind of "assurance" from Washington D.C? Yeah, right.


Well I won't go so far to insult all. Except a low IQ stalker. Ok thing is we need to be realistic and pragmatic on the ground. Being proud at wrong time and wrong place would lead us to catastrophe. There is a sharp difference between bravery and stupidity.

As you said it, EXTRA is Israeli weapons system, using US technology including GPS guidance system. It is not necessarily a bad thing to cooperate with the United States. First and foremost we need US backing should the deployment create a sharp reaction from China. The US also can provide us with military grade GPS signals, for better accuracy of the EXTRA.


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## cochine

*Largest multifunctional replenishment oiler handed over to Vietnam Coast Guard*

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 07/29/2016 10:46 GMT + 7






PrevNext
*The Vietnam Coast Guard received its largest multifunctional replenishment oiler on Thursday.*

The multifunctional vessel CSB 7011 will be added to the fleet of the Vietnam Coast Guard of Zone 3, which manages the maritime area between the south-central province of Binh Dinh and the southern province of Tra Vinh as well as the East Vietnam Sea.

Weighing 2,900 metric tons, the ship is 90 meters long and 14 meters wide, considered the largest and most modern multifunctional replenishment oiler among the country’s vessel line-up.

The CBS 7011 can reach a maximum velocity of 13.5 nautical miles per hour, cover 6,000 nautical miles within 60 days, and withstand winds blowing at 117 kilometers per hour.


The vessel is also outfitted with several rooms for first-aid and healthcare, and multiple technical repair workshops.

The oiler is designed to transport and supply food and fuel for other coast guard ships operating at sea, support local fishermen, and assist in search and rescue missions as well as environmental protection efforts.

Leaders of the Vietnam Coast Guard of Zone 3 have vowed to effectively use the new vessel to fulfill all missions regarding the enforcement of maritime laws and the protection of national sovereignty, security, and safety.


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## William Hung

hoangsa74 said:


> All of these viet cong are so gullible. Without the U.S's approval, Israel would not even dare to sell any of those missiles or radar to viet cong.
> 
> Just look at the viet cong troopers in that 1988 Spratly "battle". None of the viet cong dare to fire any "first", second, third, or nth shot at the Chinese. Even viet cong general revealed later that viet cong were not allowed to shoot at the Chinese.
> 
> Now, the viet cong have the gut to bring extra artillery rockets to the Spratly without any kind of "assurance" from Washington D.C? Yeah, right.



You made a new account just to post this comment? what a ludicrous joker.

Even if what the western media said about the EXTRA deployment was true, the theory that VN “coordinated” and needed an assurance “okay” from the White House is quite frankly, stupid. The logic was that Ha Kim Ngoc had a meeting in the US one week before reuter released the article, so somehow an “okay” from the WH was solicited in that meeting. But the fact is that the reuter article explictly said VN had been deploying the EXTRA for *“months”*, if you don’t have any logic, it means that it was supposedly deployed “months” before Ha Kim Ngoc visited the US. So, any theory about Ha Kim Ngoc needing to get an “assurance” “Okay” is pure nonsense and lack any rationality.


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## Nike

extra is just ur ordinary artillery rocket with some guidance thingy

not some strategic wonder weapons like THAAD


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## BoQ77

William Hung said:


> You made a new account just to post this comment? what a ludicrous joker.
> 
> Even if what the western media said about the EXTRA deployment was true, the theory that VN “coordinated” and needed an assurance “okay” from the White House is quite frankly, stupid. The logic was that Ha Kim Ngoc had a meeting in the US one week before reuter released the article, so somehow an “okay” from the WH was solicited in that meeting. But the fact is that the reuter article explictly said VN had been deploying the EXTRA for *“months”*, if you don’t have any logic, it means that it was supposedly deployed “months” before Ha Kim Ngoc visited the US. So, any theory about Ha Kim Ngoc needing to get an “assurance” “Okay” is pure nonsense and lack any rationality.



Actually, Vietnam planned to deploy EXtra rockets on Spratly not months but years.
And it is not the first or last rockets deployed.
It seems that Vietnam never tried to cover carefully the deployment, as they declared in the 2015 naval marching that Extra is suitable to deploy in Sea and Island condition.

A detergent couldnt be a detergent if no one acknowledged its presence.
No one saved Vietnamese sailors in Johnson South reef in 1988, so no one could limit what Vietnam arm their islands and reefs.

Philippines knows well what it means so they dont oppose the move but would copy it.


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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> Actually, Vietnam planned to deploy EXtra rockets on Spratly not months but years.
> And it is not the first or last rockets deployed.
> It seems that Vietnam never tried to cover carefully the deployment, as they declared in the 2015 naval marching that Extra is suitable to deploy in Sea and Island condition.
> 
> A detergent couldnt be a detergent if no one acknowledged its presence.
> No one saved Vietnamese sailors in Johnson South reef in 1988, so no one could limit what Vietnam arm their islands and reefs.
> 
> Philippines knows well what it means so they dont oppose the move but would copy it.



Yes, indeed the planning, preparations and approval would take longer than months. And the Reuter article cleary said the EXTRA was already moved there months ago. It was a pure simple deduction error on his part by linking together the Reuter article and the VN delegation visit to the US to make the conclusion about the so called “assurance” and “okay” from the WH. He should just accept his minor deductive error and move on instead jumping up and down and making a ruckus everytime.

And for sure the US and the Philippines would already know what the intention for the EXTRA is. And it is also a diplomatic posture against China, irrelevent to what the US think. The more aggressive and irrational China reacts to such relatively minor action, the better it is, since the Philippines would be compelled to follow similar steps, and VN would gain other benefits too, the previous lifting of the arms embargo was one such benefit, all thanks to China’s recent antics.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Actually, Vietnam planned to deploy EXtra rockets on Spratly not months but years.
> And it is not the first or last rockets deployed.
> It seems that Vietnam never tried to cover carefully the deployment, as they declared in the 2015 naval marching that Extra is suitable to deploy in Sea and Island condition.
> 
> A detergent couldnt be a detergent if no one acknowledged its presence.
> No one saved Vietnamese sailors in Johnson South reef in 1988, so no one could limit what Vietnam arm their islands and reefs.
> 
> Philippines knows well what it means so they dont oppose the move but would copy it.



Vietnam may have "informed" USA that it was deploying the EXTRA, that would make a lot more sense I supposed.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> William Hung said:
> 
> 
> 
> Deployment of EXTRA needs to be “okayed” by the White House???
> 
> umm NO, since when does VN need to ask permission for such things? even if EXTRA were indeed deployed in the Spratlys, preparations for such deployment would take a lot more time than just mere days after the Deputy FM visited the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you remove the non-flag-shown poster @William Hung from this thread please?
> 
> He is a low life troller, a stalker. He contributes nothing except jumping in once a while making comments if he sees something that is not fitting in his narrow mindset. He once promised to quit this forum forever. I wonder why he is here luring around.
> 
> Thank you
Click to expand...


Dont do that again @Viet
Do they block the comment section under any article in Germany?
or limit who can make comment there?



madokafc said:


> extra is just ur ordinary artillery rocket with some guidance thingy
> 
> not some strategic wonder weapons like THAAD



yes. Extra is for mission in short range, and I believe it could do that precisely.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Vietnam may have "informed" USA that it was deploying the EXTRA, that would make a lot more sense I supposed.



He didn’t just merely said “informed” the USA, but said that VN wanted to make sure the US had “no objection” to it, which in essence means Vietnam was asking for US permission, which kind of contradicted the article anyway if he read carefully. If he wants to change his words now then thats fine with me. He should have done that in the beginning instead of his repetitive immature outbursts. Giving the same old excuse for his ruckus and outbursts is getting old and annoying. If he doesn’t want me to refute some of his absurd theories and claims (which are actually many but I ignore most of it), then he should refrain from expressing them. He has the right to express all of his opinions but I also have the right to refute it when I see it extremely absurd. His immature outbursts and attacks only makes him look bad, you should let him know that.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Vietnam may have "informed" USA that it was deploying the EXTRA, that would make a lot more sense I supposed.



I couldnt believe that German media just revealed a big secret "Us supports Vietnam deployment of state of art guided rockets onto Spratly archipelago"
Lol.

As once before they reported Phung Quang Thanh died.

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> He didn’t just merely said “informed” the USA, but said that VN wanted to make sure the US had “no objection” to it, which in essence means Vietnam was asking for US permission, which kind of contradicted the article anyway if he read carefully. If he wants to change his words now then thats fine with me. He should have done that in the beginning instead of his repetitive immature outbursts. Giving the same old excuse for his ruckus and outbursts is getting old and annoying. If he doesn’t want me to refute some of his absurd theories and claims (which are actually many but I ignore most of it), then he should refrain from expressing them. He has the right to express all of his opinions but I also have the right to refute it when I see it extremely absurd. His immature outbursts and attacks only makes him look bad, you should let him know that.



Well, I'm not his daddy to tell him what to do, but yes, everybody has a right to post their opinion anytime they like. I think we all know that @Viet has a tendency to interpret articles in a way that fits his thinking on the matter. Thats why I would prefer a google translation rather than his opinion of the article.


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## BoQ77

I don't know why Vietnam must reveal the defence planning to any other nations ?
while, Vietnam in some aspects still be careful with US and they aren't allied.

We could see some cooperation in Coast Guard force, but not in Navy or Spratly island fortified forces.

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## Silent Knight

Well, it MIGHT go like this:

- Vietnam: Yo dawg, me deploying some stuff in Spratly Islands. Just so you know, me don't care about your opinion.
- US: Cool story brah.
- Russia: Buy more stuff, tovarish.

Yup, basically that.

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## BoQ77

To Whom Mr. Ha Kim Ngoc met in 3rd August ? during the 8th Vietnam-US dialogue of political-security


> Ambassador Tina Kaidanow was designated Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of Political-Military Affairs on February 22, 2016. Ambassador Kaidanow is the Department of State’s principal liaison with the Department of Defense and manages several critical components of U.S. foreign policy, including the maintenance of the State Department’s global security relationships, *the provision of more than $5 billion in international security assistance, bilateral transfers and the licensing of commercial sales of U.S.-origin defense equipment, the negotiation of international security agreements, and the implementation of the President’s Export Control Reform Initiative*.



I believe, the meeting is for adding more weapons to Vietnam, not removing anything.

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## vtnsx

Silent Knight said:


> Well, it MIGHT go like this:
> 
> - Vietnam: Yo dawg, me deploying some stuff in Spratly Islands. Just so you know, me don't care about your opinion.
> - US: Cool story brah.
> - Russia: Buy more stuff, tovarish.
> 
> Yup, basically that.



You Da man, holy night!! 

On the other hand, I don't see a big deal about anyone's comments. Anyone could be wrong. We are all speculating here until something actually happens.

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## Silent Knight

Dat radar coverage doe.

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## vtnsx

Silent Knight said:


> Dat radar coverage doe.


You talk black, yo. You from da hood?


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## Carlosa

*As Friend to China & Vietnam, Russia Would Be Perfect Mediator in Spratly Spat*
© AFP 2016/ 
ASIA & PACIFIC
14:54 14.08.2016
http://sputniknews.com/asia/2016081...on-chinese-vietnamese-diplomacy-analysis.html

*The dispute over islands in the South China Sea is deepening, with countries unable to reach a political settlement engaged in a military buildup in the area instead. For their part, Russian geopolitical analysts suggest that Moscow, a partner to both Beijing and Hanoi, can play a key role in resolving the two countries' quarrel over the Spratlys.*

The quarrel over the disputed Spratly Islands is intensifying. Last week, anonymous Western diplomats and military officials told Reuters that intelligence had confirmed that Hanoi was moving mobile missile launchers from mainland Vietnam to five separate facilities in the Spratly archipelago. According to experts, the Chinese facilities in neighboring islands are within the missiles' range.





© FLICKR/ FORT BRAGG

As expected, Chinese state media issued a blistering response, warning that the move would be a "terrible mistake," and adding that Vietnam should "remember and draw some lessons from history," alluding to the three week Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979.

The Spratly archipelago consists of over a hundred small islets, their total area less than five square kilometers, with the largest, Taiping Island (also known as Itu Aba and several other names), having an area of about 46 hectares. The archipelago sprawls over a total area of over 400,000 square kilometers.

"This jumble," writes PolitRussia contributor Boris Stepnov, "is simultaneously claimed by Vietnam, the Philippines, China, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei; and this despite the fact that most of the 'islands' can only be conditionally called as such."

Discussing Hanoi's decision to place missile launchers in the area, the journalist suggested that "this demarche is the largest Vietnam has made in this area in recent years."

"It was obviously caused by the Hague Court of Arbitration's July 12 decision on the illegality of China's claim to the Spratly archipelago in favor of the Philippines," he added.

Commenting on the missiles' deployment for the Russian business newspaper Kommersant, Institute for Far Eastern Studies researcher Vasily Kashin suggested that the measure actually means very little in the conventional military sense.

"In real combat, the survival of these systems would depend on their ability to be quickly moved to avoid return fire." Accordingly, "the aim, when placing them on 100x100 meter islands," where there is literally no room for maneuvering, "can only be demonstrative," Kashin said.

As expected, the Chinese Foreign Ministry responded to the deployment by saying that Beijing "resolutely opposes [Vietnam] occupying parts of China's Spratly Islands and reefs…[and] carrying out illegal construction and military deployments."

However, Stepnov suggested that it's worth noting, for fairness' sake, "that China in its section of the Spratlys is building dual-use facilities that can be used for military purposes. Moreover, since 2013, China has been confidently carrying out engineering and the construction activities in the archipelago, building artificial islands, deepening waterways, and creating new berthing facilities…China, naturally, has said that the infrastructure has peaceful purposes – meant for search and rescue operations, as well as scientific research in navigation. Foreign analysts, however, have suggested that its main purpose is to strengthen China's military potential in the region. Specifically, China is now completing the construction of an airstrip on one of its seven artificial islands."

Thankfully, the analyst noted, a hot war between China and Vietnam remains unlikely, for the moment. "If China puts too much pressure on Vietnam, the latter will likely run to the US for protection, which is clearly not something China wants. At the same time, the two countries have experience of cooperation – for example, via the recent joint anti-terrorism exercises."

"The problem, as usual, has to do with oil," Stepnov wrote. "According to the US Department of Energy, the archipelago contains the equivalent of some 5.4 billion barrels of oil, and over 55 trillion cubic meters of natural gas. What's more, the region has a value as a fishery zone."

"And that's not the only problem," the journalist noted. "take a look at the size of China's claims: They are a bit immodest, aren't they?"





© WIKIPEDIA/ VOICE OF AMERICA
Map showing countries' claims in the South China Sea. 

"As we can see, the disputed archipelago is China's main sea route for access to Europe, Africa and the Middle East. About 60% of the country's total trade, and nearly 80% of its imports of hydrocarbons, pass through the area. China simply cannot afford to lose control over this territory; otherwise whoever does come to control it will be able to block most of China's maritime transport. Therefore, China is ready to buy the archipelago out from other claimants, and as can be guessed, is not enthusiastic about allowing the United States to serve as a 'third party' in the negotiations."





© AP PHOTO/ RENATO ETAC 

Scarborough Standoff: Beijing Crosses Washington's 'Red Line' in South China Sea

The US, in turn, is not thrilled about the prospect of China strengthening its position in the South China Sea, Stepnov added. In fact, "ideally, Washington would like to see a war between China and an alliance of the other five claimants to the archipelago; if this were to occur, China's maritime trade would be blocked, and the US could rejoice and sell weapons to the belligerents."


Beijing has decisively rejected the Hague Tribunal's ruling in their spat with the Philippines, and vowed to defend China's claims to sovereignty over the area. "As for Vietnam, it's already been mentioned that their moves are a symbolic action. But here the US is a far more serious player, which has had a nearly constant presence in the disputed area recently."

Last month, the US Navy deployed destroyers including the USS Spruance, the USS Momsen, the USS Stethem, and the USS Ronald Reagan carrier strikes group to the South China Sea, with US Pacific Fleet spokesman Lt. Clint Ramsden emphasizing that "US Navy forces have flown, sailed, and operated in this region for decades and will continue to do so."

Against this massive force, the deployment of the Vietnamese missile launchers looks like "a mere trifle," Stepnov suggested.

"It's obvious that Washington is hoping for convergence with Hanoi and friendship against Beijing. The methodology is exactly the same as that which is used against Russia: surround China with unfriendly states loyal to the US."

At the same time, the journalist pointed out, "Hanoi is also steadily moving closer to Moscow and the countries of the Eurasian Economic Union, even while Washington attempts to attach it to its Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement."

As far as the dispute over the South China Sea is concerned, Stepnov noted that Russia's position is very simple, and fair.

Last month, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova noted that "Russia is not a party in territorial disputes in the South China Sea, and will not be dragged into them. We do not take any side as a matter of principle. We firmly believe that involvement of third parties in these disputes will only fan tensions in the region. Consultations and talks on territorial disputes in this region should be held directly by the parties involved in the format that they themselves deem appropriate."

There's a clear logic to the Foreign Ministry's position, the journalist suggested. "Given that so many countries have territorial claims, the solution is political, not arbitration-based. States should negotiate with one another, rather than delegating to organizations which not all parties recognize." This is what occurred in the case of the Hague's arbitration effort, which China rejected long before they ever made their ruling.

Accordingly, Stepnov noted, while "there is no sense in Russia meddling in the conflict, we can and must maintain partnership relations with all the parties involved," including by assisting countries militarily to ensure the maintenance of a military strategic balance. "This tactic is aimed precisely at preventing a military conflict from taking place.

Ultimately, while Moscow may not have the diplomatic or political capital necessary to help resolve the conflict between all parties to the Spratly dispute, at least as far as Beijing and Hanoi are concerned, Russia's many decades of friendly relations with the two countries may be just what China and Vietnam need in an impartial go-between. Who else if not Moscow can the two countries turn to if they are seeking a fair mediator – one who has no interest in the dispute except to seeing its peaceful resolution?


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## Carlosa

*'Terrible Mistake' Chinese Media Hints at War With Vietnam Over Rocket Launchers*
*http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160813/1044240469/china-sea-vietnam-rocket-launchers.html
*
On Thursday, China’s state-run Global Times newspaper warned Vietnam against the deployment of rocket launchers targeting Chinese facilities reminding Hanoi of the devastation that ensued the last time the two countries went to war.

"If Vietnam’s latest deployment is targeting China, that would be a terrible mistake," said the editorial. "We hope Vietnam will remember and draw some lessons from history."

The statement follows a Reuters report, citing “Western officials,” that Vietnam had deployed advanced mobile rocket launchers targeting China’s runways and military installations amid a brewing regional dispute in the South China Sea that the United States has been all too willing to meddle in.

"Fortifying the islands with rocket launchers, if proved to be true, will only demonstrate Vietnam’s determination to strengthen its military deployment," said the editorial. "Vietnam has been enhancing its control of the islets and islands in Nansha in order to consolidate the beneficial status quo."

Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry vehemently denied the report following the stern warning from China’s state media saying that the information about the rocket launchers was "inaccurate" although US State Department officials acknowledged that they were aware of the report and did not refute its claims.

The editorial ultimately laid the blame at the feet of the West, most prominently the United States, that incited the regional diplomatic row by encouraging the Philippines to seek a ruling from The Hague arbitrational court contesting China’s longstanding claim to most of the South China Sea territory.

"It can be expected that the West won’t easily give up using arbitration as leverage to pile pressure on China and continue to stoke more tensions in the region," opined the editorial. "The regional stakeholders should be wary of the West’s tactics."

Beijing has warned its people to be prepared to go to war over the valuable waters and islands of the South China Sea, home to one of the world’s largest natural gas and oil deposits and through which over 40% of the world’s shipborne trade travels each day. China has already deployed combat patrols to the area in an effort the head off regional efforts to seize on the arbitration court’s rulings to deprive Beijing of its historically held territory.

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## Silent Knight

vtnsx said:


> You talk black, yo. You from da hood?


Yo dawg, you from da hood too? Dayummmmm, homie

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> *'Terrible Mistake' Chinese Media Hints at War With Vietnam Over Rocket Launchers*.




"Terrible Mistake" is great.

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## Carlosa

Somewhere in Vietnam................

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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> You need a game changer like F-35 jet. You can't hope to win a conflict with china by having more ship or planes because china can build more ship and plane in 1 year than the russian can build 2 gepard for u in 5 years. u can't compete with china in number; the only way u can win is having technological advantage. China has air dominant over the scs. They can launch jets or bombers from the woody island to attack viet cong with impunity. Viet cong has nothing to prevent china from launching attack from woody island. Woody island is the unsinkable air carrier of china. Without any air cover; viet cong's ships are sitting ducks. Once viet cong jets and ships are destroyed; those garrison on spartly are dead or surrender. Simply put, viet cong military doesn't have anything that can prevent china taking over the spratly. Had viet cong been a closed ally of the u.s; u would have had the f35 and it will give u the decisive advantage over china. But since u viet cong chant anti American slogan all day on those retarded facebook page like tac chien dien tu and trai tim vietcong;u deserve what u will get from the chinese. U will not earn any pity from anyone. I would like to see u loose the spartly so u can stop barking all day about the Rvn lost the paracels



Ballistic missiles can take care of Woody island real fast. 

Don't bring politics into the thread. Reported.

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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> Ballistic missiles can take care of Woody island real fast.
> .


What ballistics missiles? Scud? That thing belongs in the museum. Even if VN has the Iskander, the range won't make it to the woody island. Plus, one Iskander missile is about $5 million; VN will run out of missile first before the Chinese run out of SAM.


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## Carlosa

*Rocket Launchers: Vietnam's Bold South China Sea Move*
*http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ams-bold-south-china-sea-move-17368?page=show
*






It was inevitable, but nations in the South China Sea that have overlapping claims with the People’s Republic of China are now beginning to push back–and this time we are not talking about Lawfare or my beloved Shamefare, but are now finally enhancing their own military capabilities.

Last week, Reuters reported that Vietnam “has discreetly fortified several of its islands in the disputed South China Sea with new mobile rocket launchers capable of striking China’s runways and military installations across the vital trade route,” citing unnamed western officials.

The report goes on to note that Hanoi shipped the weapons from the Vietnamese mainland to five bases in the disputed Spratly Islands “in recent months.” It also explains that “the launchers have been hidden from aerial surveillance and they have yet to be armed, but could be made operational with rocket artillery rounds within two or three days,” according to multiple sources in the story.

The weapons in question that Vietnam chose to deploy also make a big statement. Interestingly enough, they are not some second-tier platform from 20 years ago, but the EXTRA rocket artillery system made in Israel — a great platform for attacking invading soldiers landing on island beaches.

A reaction to Chinese aggression

So what to make of all of this? My response is quite simple: What took Hanoi so long considering the stakes and China’s own aggressive actions in South China Sea?

While there is certainly plenty of blame to go around and none of the claimants in the South China Sea struggle are innocent of creating unnecessary mischief, Beijing has clearly been the aggressor in recent years.

Its declaration of a cow-tounged nine-dash-line (really ten, but who’s counting?) and historical claim of everything in between those lines, comprising almost all of the South China Sea, has driven tensions to new heights as Beijing has sought to enforce its claims.

From harassing rival claimants’ fishing fleets, utilizing its “maritime militia” to ensure its dominance on the high seas, placing oil rigs on multiple occasions over several years in disputed waters near Vietnam and building massive new islands that are clearly militarized, there is only one nation that seeks to overturn the status-quo.

Even a major defeat in the Hague has not slowed China’s push towards regional dominance — now including what I like to call “bomber selfies.”

*Hanoi has the Tools to Push Back:*

Of all the nations in the South China Sea that are in the best position to push back against Beijing’s bullying tendencies, clearly Vietnam has the most ability and capability — and some unique diplomatic options.

Hanoi has purchased some of the world’s most advanced conventional submarines from Moscow in recent years, also acquiring advanced fighter aircraft from the Russians as well. Vietnam, while still outmanned and surely outgunned in a firefight with Beijing, has been purchasing platforms that would at least give China some pause, with some arguing Hanoi could even be putting together a crude anti-access/area-denial capability (A2/AD), right out of China’s military playbook.

But beyond military and economic levers, both nations — well, at least on paper, anyway — are fellow Communist countries, and ‘party to party’ talks still occur. Hanoi and Beijing have the ability to discuss the South China Sea challenge discreetly, away from the media, with top leaders in this format able to exchange views in a more candid nature.

Vietnam could leverage such connections, working with their colleagues in China to seek possible compromises — or at least voice their displeasure without creating a diplomatic incident.

*A Budding Arms Race in South China Sea?:*

But there is danger here that any first or second year political science student would recognize almost instantly — the infamous security dilemma that could spiral into a classic arms race.

While Vietnam’s move is merely a reaction to China’s much, much larger militarization of its own South China Sea islands, Beijing will very likely use this action by Vietnam to respond — and possibly even increase its military lead over rival claims substantially.

Indeed, in recent days, it has been shown that China now has large, military grade, reinforced hangars on its new islands in the South China Sea, capable of housing any plane in the Chinese arsenal. Beijing could simply decide to base some of its most lethal air assets permanently here. And don’t forget, China has said time and time again that its decision to declare an Air Defense Identification Zone, or ADIZ, would be based on what Beijing felt was the overall security picture in the area.

Does this move by Vietnam make such a step more likely? We might just find out soon enough, but not until early to mid September.

_Harry J. Kazianis_ _is Senior Fellow for Defense Policy at The Center for the National Interest and Senior Editor for The National Interest Magazine. You can follow him on twitter: @grecianformula._

_This first appeared in AsiaTimes here._

_Image: Creative Commons. _

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## Silent Knight

The text read:

- The batch of new generation tanks, "S" version, has officially commissioned by a SEA country, with the most powerful options, including Shtora-1. These tanks has been delivered to Unit X and the conversion training is underway.

- T-90 was highly rated so there will be no *additional *T-72B3 purchase.

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## Carlosa

@waz @Hu Songshan 

I'd like to ask the moderators to clean up the thread by removing these above posts that are all political, insulting and not related to this thread and please take some action against these trolls that only joined the forum in order to poison the thread. We don't need this.

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## waz

I'm going to lock this thread, it will take a while to clean up. Please be patient.

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## Barmaley

New KAMAZ trucks for Vietnam Army.














The one of the important fact is that KAMAZ planned to open assembly factory in Vietnam where trucks and buses will be produced. So the KAMAZ trucks may become a main and the most numerous trucks of the VPA.

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## Viet

Incredible. thread is reopened. Thanks heaven.

@Barmaley great news. I can imagine how we will use such trucks, from troop transporter to artillery vehicle to missile launcher. May Vietnam-Russia friendship prosper in the next 1,000 years

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Incredible. thread is reopened. Thanks heaven.
> 
> @Barmaley great news. I can imagine how we will use such trucks, from troop transporter to artillery vehicle to missile launcher. May Vietnam-Russia friendship prosper in the next 1,000 years



Amen. Good to see you again too.



waz said:


> I'm going to lock this thread, it will take a while to clean up. Please be patient.



Thank you man. Please keep an eye on the thread.



Silent Knight said:


> The text read:
> 
> - The batch of new generation tanks, "S" version, has officially commissioned by a SEA country, with the most powerful options, including Shtora-1. These tanks has been delivered to Unit X and the conversion training is underway.
> 
> - T-90 was highly rated so there will be no *additional *T-72B3 purchase.



@Viet Poor sis Madokafc, pretty soon she won't be able to keep repeating her usual line: "Vietnam still using very old tanks, everything old, Even Thailand has better".

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## BoQ77

Wrong.
1, 2 aren't in Vietnam
3, is the _IMR_-2 - combat engineering vehicle built on T-72 main battle tank


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## cochine

BoQ77 said:


> Wrong.
> 1, 2 aren't in Vietnam
> 3, is the _IMR_-2 - combat engineering vehicle built on T-72 main battle tank



Thanks you, I copied from here. http://soha.vn/viet-nam-da-so-huu-xe-tang-t-72-tu-gan-10-nam-truoc-20160818115030592.htm


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> @Viet Poor sis Madofc, pretty soon she won't be able to keep repeating her usual line: "Vietnam still using very old tanks, everything old, Even Thailand has better".


Because he didn't understand Vietnamese people. We can use all of the things to defend or fight with the enemy. Old or new,no matter, it is only important when their interests can be performed.









One example. It is our weapon from one thousand years and it used in Vietnam War. And it is obviously important for our victory. One interesting thing i find in quora, the last pic, it is Vietnamese weapon , the useful weapon it was used to take down helicopters! Well! They just need to hang it on a tree and when a helicopter lower itself close enough, the wind from the chopper propeller will spin the trap's propeller and spring the pin off while throwing the grenade at the helicopter.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Amen. Good to see you again too.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you man. Please keep an eye on the thread.
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet Poor sis Madofc, pretty soon she won't be able to keep repeating her usual line: "Vietnam still using very old tanks, everything old, Even Thailand has better".



that's not even a credible pics


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## William Hung

Silent Knight said:


> The text read:
> 
> - The batch of new generation tanks, "S" version, has officially commissioned by a SEA country, with the most powerful options, including Shtora-1. These tanks has been delivered to Unit X and the conversion training is underway.
> 
> - T-90 was highly rated so there will be no *additional *T-72B3 purchase.



klq, but what do you think of that codosaov..+tiem.kich? Why is there such a fierce beef between those 2 and evanna?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Amen. Good to see you again too.
> 
> Thank you man. Please keep an eye on the thread.
> 
> @Viet Poor sis Madofc, pretty soon she won't be able to keep repeating her usual line: "Vietnam still using very old tanks, everything old, Even Thailand has better".


I needed a break. Thanks.

In respect of T-72/90, I would like to see more pictures of the tanks, having them in exercises. Don't understand our people, why there is a need to hide the tanks, considering that is impossible to hide them before spy satellites and other means on the ground. Besides maintaining a credible deterrent includes showing what you have, reminding our potential opponents what price will have to pay.

Ok anyway. Has anyone read the recent news?

Vietnam artillery Corps recently staged an exercise with Bastion-P (Yakhont) antiship missile. The heavy weight supersonic missile can hit a destroyer in 300 km away with high accuracy and sink it with one hit. The exercise shows the Yakhont was shipped and brought to an island. I think the author wants to demonstrate our ability or possibility to bring the system to the Spratly islands.

And maybe a coincidence, Russia media posted a news, Vietnam receives the third Yakhont battery. I may look for more news to confirm.

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## Viet

MARITIME SECURITY


*Vietnam buttresses SCS presence*
17th August 2016 - 2:32
by Gordon Arthur in Hong Kong








News emerged last week that Vietnam had deployed mobile rocket launchers on some of its occupied islets in the Spratly chain in the South China Sea. If true, these would pose a military threat to China, as well as increase tensions.

The reports stated that Vietnam had discreetly shipped launchers to five of its South China Sea bases, where they remain hidden from aerial surveillance. While not yet armed it is believed they could be quickly fitted with long-range rockets.

Vietnam however denied these rumours with the Foreign Ministry described the reports as ‘inaccurate’.

Furthermore, in June the country’s deputy defence minister Sr Lt Gen Nguyen Chi Vinh told Reuters in Singapore that Vietnam did not have such weapons in the South China Sea, although ‘it is within our legitimate right to self-defence to move any of our weapons to any area at any time within our sovereign territory’.

The weapons being talked about are 20 EXTRA rockets that Vietnam bought from Israel Military Industries (IMI), the existence of which became public earlier this year. The EXTRA carries a 120kg warhead containing high explosives or sub-munitions.

They only need a compact radar to operate (Vietnam recently acquired IAI Elta ELM-2288/ER radars from Israel), so they are mobile and have a small footprint. When combined with a UAV (Vietnam also acquired Orbiter 2 UAVs from Israel), they can target hostile land-based or sea-based assets.

Indeed, the EXTRA’s 150km range would be sufficient to target China’s newly reclaimed military installations at Subi, Fiery Cross and Mischief reefs. Hanoi clearly feels its own numerous reefs are vulnerable, and so beefing up their protection with the EXTRA would make logical sense.

Alarmed at Chinese activities on its maritime doorstep, Vietnam has been further developing Sin Cowe Island, Sand Cay and West Reef in the Paracels too.

Vietnam is boosting naval power with six _Kilo_-class submarines, new frigates and corvettes. The Vietnam Coast Guard (VCG) is also growing steadily in capability, receiving a 90m multirole replenishment vessel and two 400t patrol boats on 14 July. These are part of a seven-ship order approved under a VCG modernisation programme in 2014 to promote economic development and enhance maritime sovereignty.

Vietnam deployed Rafael SPYDER surface-to-air missiles (SAM) in 2015, while it is rumoured it will start negotiating for Russian S-400 SAMs later this year. It is in the market for at least four battalions’ worth of this 380km-range missile, which would complement the S-300PMU-1 SAMs it already has.

Given widespread concern about China’s aggressive stance in the South China Sea, Vietnam is taking full advantage of support from the international community. For example, Washington pledged $18 million for five US-built Metal Shark patrol boats, while Japan gifted six second-hand boats to Hanoi for conversion into patrol boats. The USA and Japan see Vietnam as a hedge against Chinese expansionism.

Television footage aired on Vietnamese television on 10 August showed the country’s Russian-built K-300P Bastion-P coastal defence missile system being deployed by landing craft.

Such a deployment showed that Vietnam is able to quickly deploy this coastal defence missile system to its Spratly or Paracel island features. Bastion-P utilises the 300km-range 3M55E Yakhont anti-ship missile, with Vietnam receiving its first systems in 2009.

Vietnam is also interested in the supersonic BrahMos cruise missile from India. No formal order has yet been placed for the 290km-range missile that can attack sea- or land-based targets, though it is rumoured that a deal, perhaps for a land-based battery and frigates, could be signed by year’s end.

Diplomatic relations between Delhi and Hanoi have been on the rise in the past few years, with both concerned about Chinese military activities on their respective doorsteps. In October 2014 the two signed an MoU in which India offered a $100 million line of credit for defence acquisitions such as four offshore patrol vessels.

India already trains members of Vietnam’s submarine force, given that both navies operate _Kilo_-class boats. In December 2014 the Indian government approved training of Vietnamese pilots on the Su-30, a fighter type that both countries use.

There were also reports in January that India planned to establish a satellite tracking and imaging station in southern Vietnam. Although described as a ‘civil facility’, India’s earth observation satellite would be able to provide data about China and the South China Sea to Vietnam.

In relation to the Philippine arbitration case against China, Sebastien Colin – a researcher at the Hong Kong-based French Centre for Research on Contemporary China – told _Shephard_: ‘Vietnam, which did not choose the legal card in order not to worsen its relations with China, is also diversifying its partnerships and looking here and there for some counterweights.’

‘In this context, China must constantly seek a delicate balance between its inflexibility on territorial sovereignty issues and the desire to continue the development of economic relations with its neighbours,' he added.

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## Viet

Pictures of the exercise deployment of the Yakhont

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## Viet

I think it is not wrong if we assume Vietnam missile Corps is trained by russian military. Pictures of the russian armed forces, test firing of Yakhont missile. the ramjet engine can accelerate the sea-skimming missile to speed Mach 3.


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> that's not even a credible pics



I said "pretty soon". Here is another hint for you:

*Russian report: Vietnam bought the T-90 Trainer system*

*Tuan Hung* | 18/08/2016 13:40
Google translated Soha.vn




_T-90MS._


*According to sources from the company Almaty, Kazakhstan and Vietnam signed a memorandum of understanding on the provision of training simulation system of tank cars.*

Representatives of Almaty, Alexander Klimenko said: "the two sides signed a memorandum and will have a record of exporting, this is just the beginning of our work will provide the equipment to Vietnam".

In addition, the Almaty also introduced his accomplishments for the Vietnam partners. In particular, simulation training system with full features of Mi-17 helicopters, special features of the Mi-17.

In particular, the Almaty also introduced to Vietnam training simulation system with full of features to the T-72. However the Kazakhstan has not confirmed this information.

But if this affair be authentic then here is the good news next with armored force Vietnam, by earlier Russian manufacturers have also posted information to know Vietnam has ordered a number of tanks T-90MS more than speculation.

The maker Uralvagonzavod said, to meet current needs and proceed straight up the modern, Vietnam conducted met and ordered to buy new tanks T-90MS of Russia aimed at replacing gradually the tubers.

Russia's representative has confirmed that Vietnam will buy larger quantities than the original figure of just 28.

According to the introduction of Uralvagonzavod, manufacturer T-90MS equipped 1130 HP engines with automatic transmission 7 amount and 1 reverse, the viewfinder PNM Sosna-U turret, automatic control of UDP-T05BV RWS mounted 7.62 mm caliber Dalian, inertial navigation system GLONASS and especially the new enhanced reactive protection.

Before that there is news that Vietnam has decided to buy T-90 or T-90A. They are the earlier versions of T-90MS. Comparison of structural characteristics and its ability to fight, then obviously T-90MS superior.



madokafc said:


> that's not even a credible pics



And here is another thing that I've been saying for a few years now:

*Vietnam has owned T-72 tanks from nearly 10 years ago?*

*Plains* | 19/08/2016 7:30

Google translated Soha.vn




*The Center analyzed the global weapons market Armstrade of Russia confirmed that from 2009, Vietnam has owned an unspecified number of T-72 tanks.*

*T-72 -dread of the West!*

Inherit the characteristics of their tanks as the legendary T-34 T-54/55 or T-62/64, T-72 was born and became a full steel shot of powerful Soviet Union and East European countries in the Decade of 70-80 of the 20th century.

To this day, at the time of the year 2016, the latest variant of the T-72 is still making rain wind in the competition grossing tank and continue to play the role as a mainstay of the army's many Nations from Asia to Europe and is copied or produced under license to transfer technology by many countries.

When the new appearance, the T-72 is integrated so many technological advances that Western countries covet, that is 125 mm smooth-bore cannon, borders, complex systems are loaded automatically with the night vision system and advanced fire control ...

Fact field shows it absolutely deserves the admiration of many military experts participating in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, the T-72 has slaughtered a series of unfortunate opponents clash with it.

Although during the Gulf war, the T-72 proved that funiture before M1 Abrams (USA) but that does not do these influence decision to mass shopping the latest variants of this tank line by many countries, much of the money in very recent times.

Russian troops themselves also put money out the upgraded T-72 series of up T-72B3 and T-norm 72B3M. That proved, in at least 10-20 years the T-72 would not backward, they still shot steel of many countries.





T-72B3 of Russia.

*Vietnam has owned T-72 tanks from nearly 10 years ago?*

This is completely unexpected information was revealed in the report to export weapons 2010 market analysis centre's global weapons in Russia. With that, the 2008 Vietnam has ordered a batch of T-72 tanks with version as well as the number of unspecified amounts of Belarus and the reception in the period 2009-2010.





Vietnam information buy T-72 of Belarus in weapons exports report 2010 of the Center for analysis of the global weapons market in Russia.

The report had cited the source was posted on reputable information page Arms-Tass.ru on 31/08/2009.

The strange thing is that if this information is more or less exactly the image of the new generation tank will also soon be the Orthodox tradition of Vietnam, but to date, the magnificent yet have official confirmation. So the info the T-72 was present in the "S"-shaped strip of land need to be verified.

Very possibly, very foreign in General based on the dynamics expressed the intention to purchase Vietnam's new generation of tanks at that time. However, the more likely the formal contract has yet been signed.

Recently, a row has information Vietnam Army will start modernization the branches are priorities such as increased armor and artillery. In it, the T-90, T-72 upgrade has been put on the "range" and probably the negotiations are more advanced.





The car Corps IRM-2 m versatile works of Vietnam. Photo: QĐND.

Notably, although the owner of the T-72 is not yet dogma but in fact Vietnam Army have in hand a number of versatile works IRM-2 m was developed on the chassis of the main battle tank, the modern.

IRM-2 m is designed to serve the field of shipping and the other engineers and mission was judged very effective and reliable, with the ability and proven fact when executed disaster relief missions and combat missions in the enemy's fire range , including environmental radiation poisoning in-born-turned, smoke, and dust.

Don't exclude information Vietnam owns the T-72 above comes from the IRM modern engineers-2 m are imported Engineers Corps, receiving and put to use in the same time.

Hopefully, soon, Vietnam Army will formally own the line of modern tanks because the needs of innovation "change in quality" for tank-armored forces are very pressing.





Colonel General Đỗ Bá Tỵ (promoted), resources Of TMT visit independent tank Brigade No. 5 Russia.

In fact, the senior leaders of the people's army of Vietnam has many times to the Payroll Unit of the modern Russian tanks during the official visit to see the demonstration of the excellent T-72B3 and T-90A. Specifically:

During the official visit to Russia in 2013, General Phung Quang Thanh, former Minister BQP visited BBCG Division of the 2nd guards Tamanskaya. This is the unit is equipped with the most modern weapons like tanks T-90A (transformers for export is its T-90S/MS), armored vehicles BMP-3, BTR-82A ...

Before then, in 2012, Colonel General Đỗ Bá Tỵ, now a general, resources Of TMT QĐND Vietnam during a visit to Russia has come to visit independent tank Brigade number 5 in borders with Mongolia. This also brigades fully equipped T-90A and the T-72B3.

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## Carlosa

*Russian Newspaper: Vietnam to Buy Spike NLOS *

12 August 2016
http://defense-studies.blogspot.hk/2016/08/russian-newspaper-vietnam-to-buy-spike.html




Spike NLOS (Spike Non-Line-of-Sight NLOS - multi-purpose tactical missile) is designed for launch from aerial, naval and land platforms. This specific configuration, based on Plasan’s Sandcat, was designed to meet the South Korean requirement. (photo: Rafael, Daum, Taringa)

VPK news pages of Russian military said that Vietnam has expressed particular concern to the Spike NLOS rockets multitasking produced by Israel.

Russian newspapers said the weapons Israel is becoming rivals strife in the traditional markets of Russia, the United States worldwide.

According to Yevgeny Satanovsky, military analyst at the Middle East Institute has compiled data of military technical cooperation between Israel and Russia's second largest trading partner in Asia, Vietnam and India.

According to information made public, now Vietnam has imported technology transfer and receive many weapons produced by Israel, Galil rifles including ACE, TAR-21 rifles, Uzi, anti-tank missiles MATADOR , ACCULAR missile systems.






Besides the weapons were delivered, Russian VPK site said, Vietnam is now expressed interest in Spike NLOS rockets multitasking.

According to Israeli manufacturers introduced, Spike NLOS can range up to 25 km, far beyond the scope of the Spike anti-tank missiles from the United States, Russia and European producers.

Spike NLOS is versatile missile system has a range of up to 25km away. This is considered a remote firing anti-tank missiles in the world today. This type of photovoltaic guided missile with a wireless data link in real time.

It could attack targets in position completely obscured by the system discharge tube Spike NLOS rockets straight use.The has 2 modes including offensive attack directly (for the goal in sight see) or advance the goal thanks to locate the coordinates after being launched (for targets obscured or far away).






Spike NLOS is also equipped with optical guidance system - infrared dual sensor system, it can easily detect targets. This navigation system also helps Spike NLOS precision attack targets day and night in all weather conditions.

In addition to the main performance is killing increased and armored vehicles, the Spike NLOS is also known as anti-ship missiles powerful pole. This very effective missiles in the quest to destroy the amphibious ships, small ships.

So if Spike NLOS Vietnam was selected, the missile will be very suitable for defensive duties in the small islands in the East Sea of Vietnam - where large ships could hardly reach.

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## Silent Knight

madokafc said:


> that's not even a credible pics


You're right. But it also applies to most Vietnamese military news and photos, they're not credible and often unconfirmed.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> *Russian Newspaper: Vietnam to Buy Spike NLOS *
> 
> 12 August 2016
> http://defense-studies.blogspot.hk/2016/08/russian-newspaper-vietnam-to-buy-spike.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spike NLOS (Spike Non-Line-of-Sight NLOS - multi-purpose tactical missile) is designed for launch from aerial, naval and land platforms. This specific configuration, based on Plasan’s Sandcat, was designed to meet the South Korean requirement. (photo: Rafael, Daum, Taringa)
> 
> VPK news pages of Russian military said that Vietnam has expressed particular concern to the Spike NLOS rockets multitasking produced by Israel.
> 
> Russian newspapers said the weapons Israel is becoming rivals strife in the traditional markets of Russia, the United States worldwide.
> 
> According to Yevgeny Satanovsky, military analyst at the Middle East Institute has compiled data of military technical cooperation between Israel and Russia's second largest trading partner in Asia, Vietnam and India.
> 
> According to information made public, now Vietnam has imported technology transfer and receive many weapons produced by Israel, Galil rifles including ACE, TAR-21 rifles, Uzi, anti-tank missiles MATADOR , ACCULAR missile systems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides the weapons were delivered, Russian VPK site said, Vietnam is now expressed interest in Spike NLOS rockets multitasking.
> 
> According to Israeli manufacturers introduced, Spike NLOS can range up to 25 km, far beyond the scope of the Spike anti-tank missiles from the United States, Russia and European producers.
> 
> Spike NLOS is versatile missile system has a range of up to 25km away. This is considered a remote firing anti-tank missiles in the world today. This type of photovoltaic guided missile with a wireless data link in real time.
> 
> It could attack targets in position completely obscured by the system discharge tube Spike NLOS rockets straight use.The has 2 modes including offensive attack directly (for the goal in sight see) or advance the goal thanks to locate the coordinates after being launched (for targets obscured or far away).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spike NLOS is also equipped with optical guidance system - infrared dual sensor system, it can easily detect targets. This navigation system also helps Spike NLOS precision attack targets day and night in all weather conditions.
> 
> In addition to the main performance is killing increased and armored vehicles, the Spike NLOS is also known as anti-ship missiles powerful pole. This very effective missiles in the quest to destroy the amphibious ships, small ships.
> 
> So if Spike NLOS Vietnam was selected, the missile will be very suitable for defensive duties in the small islands in the East Sea of Vietnam - where large ships could hardly reach.




Good choice. India loves this system too.

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## Viet

Ms. mado will be more depressed if she knows Indonesia Leopard 2/A4 tank has no chance in a direct encounter with T-90MS. while the Russian tank would blow up the Leo after piercing through its armor like a hot sharp knife through butter, the Leo could only scratch and damage the T90´s armor a bit 

Only the modernized model Leopard 2/A7 with new longer cannon, new armor piercing shells, can take on T-90. and Germany as the backbone of the NATO, the frontrunner with the strongest land army has the task to stop a potential russian invasion, currently has 22 Leopard 2/A7. the rest is Leopard 2 in A5 and A6 series. Amazing.

http://www.welt.de/print/wams/article140089405/Panzer-ohne-Power.html

@Carlosa


I believe the picture shows Russia famous elite tank division, having the glorious task to defend Moscow

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## Silent Knight

Don't be cocky, friends, don't be cocky.

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## Viet

a good picture of SPYDER surface-to-air missile (SAM) system

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## Aqsuperman

A bit of foreign news. Japan just deliver the first of the promised 10 MRRV ships to Philippine which stand for multi role response vessels. These are solely for the Coast Guard with very limited offensive options. Yet its ability are quite remarkable for it size, i mean its japan - made, right ? :b , and with Japan trend to provide ships to countries that have "issues" with our northern neighbor, its seem that we can have access to some quite modern patrol ships in a short time frame as well. 






http://www.janes.com/article/63065/first-of-10-japan-built-mrrvs-arrives-in-the-philippines


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> a good picture of SPYDER surface-to-air missile (SAM) system



Is Vietnam going for the spyder confirmed?


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Is Vietnam going for the spyder confirmed?


I will be the first who confirms you yes we go for it, but I can't 

But if you consider these 

- Vietnam airforce chief says: yes we want it.

- Vietnam state media reports: yes we do want it too.

- Israel media reported the interest and purchase.

- Pictures at a vietnamese sea port showing trucks covering some stuffs beneath. Where all people bet that must be SPYDER.

- Vietnamese media showing domestic developed friend-foe identification system for SPYDER.

Hmmm...

I will post pictures of our test firing should it come up

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## Nike

Silent Knight said:


> You're right. But it also applies to most Vietnamese military news and photos, they're not credible and often unconfirmed.



i am looking at your history post, and i know you are one of few who always said something with credible sources and know how behind the scenes. 

this pic had more value than some random upper sides of unknown tank

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## Aqsuperman

Well unless we import these trucks just for the heck of it then SPYDER is indeed operational........atleast in some units.


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## Viet

Domestic made standard rifle AK-47, produced by Z111 factory. no stop in production sight, despite Galil 31/32 assault rifles are being inducted.

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## Silent Knight

Nilgiri said:


> Is Vietnam going for the spyder confirmed?


Yes, it is operational as of now.



madokafc said:


> i am looking at your history post, and i know you are one of few who always said something with credible sources and know how behind the scenes.
> 
> this pic had more value than some random upper sides of unknown tank


Well, since Vietnamese military traditionally neither confirm nor deny any rumors, the best we (or I) can do is to spread some untracable and not-so-credible pictures/footage/news.

Here's something we can agree on, the Su-30MK2V has been armed with Kh-31PD anti-radiation missiles and maybe AD variant too. Source? Actual touching and reading the serial numbers on the missile, along with confirmation from the operators.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Is Vietnam going for the spyder confirmed?



SPYDER is already operational, the first unit is based in Hanoi.



Viet said:


> Ms. mado will be more depressed if she knows Indonesia Leopard 2/A4 tank has no chance in a direct encounter with T-90MS. while the Russian tank would blow up the Leo after piercing through its armor like a hot sharp knife through butter, the Leo could only scratch and damage the T90´s armor a bit
> 
> Only the modernized model Leopard 2/A7 with new longer cannon, new armor piercing shells, can take on T-90. and Germany as the backbone of the NATO, the frontrunner with the strongest land army has the task to stop a potential russian invasion, currently has 22 Leopard 2/A7. the rest is Leopard 2 in A5 and A6 series. Amazing.
> 
> http://www.welt.de/print/wams/article140089405/Panzer-ohne-Power.html
> 
> @Carlosa
> 
> 
> I believe the picture shows Russia famous elite tank division, having the glorious task to defend Moscow



Germany went from having the largest and best tank force in western Europe (several thousands) to only a few hundreds now. I believe that's call unilateral disarmament.



madokafc said:


> i am looking at your history post, and i know you are one of few who always said something with credible sources and know how behind the scenes.
> 
> this pic had more value than some random upper sides of unknown tank



And the thing is, he can't actually say what he knows and the same goes for everybody that actually know. That's just the way it is in the Vietnamese Army. I also don't like it, but that's the way it is.

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> And the thing is, he can't actually say what he knows and the same goes for everybody that actually know. That's just the way it is in the Vietnamese Army. I also don't like it, but that's the way it is.


Carlosa lives in Vietnam, so he knows the power of a little organization which is affectionally called the "Department of Green Tea", also known as the C2 General Department.

Therefore, most of the Vietnamese military news are speculations, rumors and unconfirmed reports. It has changed in recent years to be more open and transparent, but the principal remains.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Carlosa lives in Vietnam, so he knows the power of a little organization which is affectionally called the "Department of Green Tea", also known as the C2 General Department.
> 
> Therefore, most of the Vietnamese military news are speculations, rumors and unconfirmed reports. It has changed in recent years to be more open and transparent, but the principal remains.


department of green tea? 

Honestly speaking, I would wish the army to be more open to openess. Surely we mustn't reveal everything, but obvious things shall not be kept secret. We can save time and resource for more necessary things. I am not talking on the concept of deception nor deterrence, because it would go too far. Not only because we will begin to shout at each other. Anyway I accept thing as it is.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Germany went from having the largest and best tank force in western Europe (several thousands) to only a few hundreds now. I believe that's call unilateral disarmament.
> .


Germany today is surrounded by friendly countries, hence no need to maintain 2,000 tanks, it had during the cold war. Poland and the Baltic states would be the first that bear the brunt should Russia unleash firepower. I believe, without China threat we need no more tanks than Germany. 2 panzer divisions would be enough.


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## Aqsuperman

Vãi cả cục trà xanh :v

But yeah, the state of the army equipments must be kept secret. That is a normal routine. We got Scud like several decades ago and only got firm proof of them recently. 

About tanks and armored vehicle, i prefer extra investment on anti - tank warfare though. With such limited budget, i say we keep an adaquate number of tank and go full throttle on ATGM and personal anti tank equipments........at least that what i think :v

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> department of green tea?
> 
> Honestly speaking, I would wish the army to be more open to openess. Surely we mustn't reveal everything, but obvious things shall not be kept secret. We can save time and resource for more necessary things. I am not talking on the concept of deception nor deterrence, because it would go too far. Not only because we will begin to shout at each other. Anyway I accept thing as it is.


I take that you don't live in Vietnam, as you're unfamiliar with slangs and codename like that. C2 is a brand of bottled green tea in Vietnam, it also stands for "Cục 2" or "Tổng cục 2", a.k.a the General Department of Military Intelligence. Therefore, when folks say "you're gonna have some green tea" or "you're gonna have to drink some tea", that means the Intelligence people would like to have a chat with you.

And yes, the Armed Forces have been pretty open about their equipment and weapons in the last 10 years. You can observe the Su-30MK2V fighters, Gepard frigate, Kilo subs... on every newspapers all the time, not just some blurry photos on a small forum like in early 2000s.



Aqsuperman said:


> About tanks and armored vehicle, i prefer extra investment on anti - tank warfare though. With such limited budget, i say we keep an adaquate number of tank and go full throttle on ATGM and personal anti tank equipments........at least that what i think :v


ATGM won't solve all problems on the battlefield. You need MBT to cover infantry and light armored vehicles during offensive operations, as well as the defense of choke points. ATGM is great, but it's not invincible and definitely not suit for all roles.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> I take that you don't live in Vietnam, as you're unfamiliar with slangs and codename like that. C2 is a brand of bottled green tea in Vietnam, it also stands for "Cục 2" or "Tổng cục 2", a.k.a the General Department of Military Intelligence. Therefore, when folks say "you're gonna have some green tea" or "you're gonna have to drink some tea", that means the Intelligence people would like to have a chat with you.
> 
> And yes, the Armed Forces have been pretty open about their equipment and weapons in the last 10 years. You can observe the Su-30MK2V fighters, Gepard frigate, Kilo subs... on every newspapers all the time, not just some blurry photos on a small forum like in early 2000s.
> 
> .


Oh thanks for the explanation. Interesting. linking green tea with military intel. Oh man I think you expect too much from a viet kieu that he knows it. Actually I am a heavy coffee drinker.

Changing topic. May I ask what are our expectations on India PM Modi visit to Vietnam? What expectations of India in Vietnam? Will we see something that will surprise us?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Germany today is surrounded by friendly countries, hence no need to maintain 2,000 tanks, it had during the cold war. Poland and the Baltic states would be the first that bear the brunt should Russia unleash firepower. I believe, without China threat we need no more tanks than Germany. 2 panzer divisions would be enough.



There is a Russian Tank Army being formed again near the border with NATO. A formation like that with all the combined arms support can roll over Western Europe and not stop until it reached the Atlantic.
You understand the Russian concept of a "Tank Army", right?

*Russia Defense Report* - Feb. 17, 2016: 1st Guards Tank Army 






Viet said:


> I needed a break. Thanks.
> 
> In respect of T-72/90, I would like to see more pictures of the tanks, having them in exercises. Don't understand our people, why there is a need to hide the tanks, considering that is impossible to hide them before spy satellites and other means on the ground. Besides maintaining a credible deterrent includes showing what you have, reminding our potential opponents what price will have to pay.
> 
> Ok anyway. Has anyone read the recent news?
> 
> Vietnam artillery Corps recently staged an exercise with Bastion-P (Yakhont) antiship missile. The heavy weight supersonic missile can hit a destroyer in 300 km away with high accuracy and sink it with one hit. The exercise shows the Yakhont was shipped and brought to an island. I think the author wants to demonstrate our ability or possibility to bring the system to the Spratly islands.
> 
> And maybe a coincidence, Russia media posted a news, Vietnam receives the third Yakhont battery. I may look for more news to confirm.



I think it makes sense to deploy a Yakhont battery to a large island like Con Dao that is already 185 km from the coast. A radius of 300 km range from Con Dao almost reaches the Spratlys. That would be an effective way to extend the reach of the Yakhont batteries in the mainland.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Oh thanks for the explanation. Interesting. linking green tea with military intel. Oh man I think you expect too much from a viet kieu that he knows it. Actually I am a heavy coffee drinker.
> 
> Changing topic. May I ask what are our expectations on India PM Modi visit to Vietnam? What expectations of India in Vietnam? Will we see something that will surprise us?


Green tea is abundant in authority offices. So when you get to any office for business or meetings, you'd be greet with a small cup of green tea. So people often joke that you'll get some green tea to drink when the authority summon you, no matters how good or bad the situation is.

About the Indian PM, we expect that the BrahMos deal will be finalized and signed during his visit. Most of the negotiations has concluded as of now.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> About the Indian PM, we expect that the BrahMos deal will be finalized and signed during his visit. Most of the negotiations has concluded as of now.



Only Brahmos?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Only Brahmos?


That's what they said, I'm not sure.

But no Prithvi missiles obviously.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> That's what they said, I'm not sure.
> 
> But no Prithvi missiles obviously.



I would not mind some Agni missiles though.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> I would not mind some Agni missiles though.



Baby steps my friend. As the relationship grows and matures...there is no boundary to what will be made available to Vietnam.

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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> That's what they said, I'm not sure.
> 
> But no Prithvi missiles obviously.


Prithvi missile is retired, most probably India offer to sell Prahaar, Agni 4 and Nirbhay.

But even if those systems sold to Vietnam, that remain top secret. So, don't expect a proper disclosure of Modi visit.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> Prithvi missile is retired, most probably India offer to sell Prahaar, Agni 4 and Nirbhay.
> 
> But even if those systems sold to Vietnam, that remain top secret. So, don't expect a proper disclosure of Modi visit.


Most of Vietnamese newspaper still refer to the Prithvi and not Agni or others.

I don't think that Vietnam would buy Indian ballistic missiles. A deal with the Russian (Iskander-E) or Israeli (LORA) is more realistic.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Most of Vietnamese newspaper still refer to the Prithvi and not Agni or others.
> 
> I don't think that Vietnam would buy Indian ballistic missiles. A deal with the Russian (Iskander-E) or Israeli (LORA) is more realistic.



Don't forget that Russia recently announced that Iskander will not be exported.
I think LORA is very good and its nice to have 4 missiles per vehicle. Nice punch.


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Most of Vietnamese newspaper still refer to the Prithvi and not Agni or others.
> 
> I don't think that Vietnam would buy Indian ballistic missiles. A deal with the Russian (Iskander-E) or Israeli (LORA) is more realistic.


Prithvi is retired. And of no use in modern world. Only IAF still using them otherwise it retired by SFC, Indian Army and Indian Navy. 

The only realistic option as SRBM is Prahaar, & A4 as MRBM. Also NLOS-BSM as Shaurya and BrahMos.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I think it makes sense to deploy a Yakhont battery to a large island like Con Dao that is already 185 km from the coast. A radius of 300 km range from Con Dao almost reaches the Spratlys. That would be an effective way to extend the reach of the Yakhont batteries in the mainland.


yes that will be a credible threat to any surface warships operating around the Spratlys if we place Yakhont to Con Dao. Having said the deployment of EXTRA to the Spratlys is just the beginning.

Hey there is a news for the Gepard. the sea trail of the 3rd Figrate seems to be complete. the ship is seen on a transporter dock at the Volga sea. I guess the ship will arrive Vietnam as scheduled, so at the end of August.


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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> Prithvi is retired. And of no use in modern world. Only IAF still using them otherwise it retired by SFC, Indian Army and Indian Navy.
> 
> The only realistic option as SRBM is Prahaar, & A4 as MRBM. Also NLOS-BSM as Shaurya and BrahMos.


Yes. But to be realistic, I think the deal would only cover BrahMos missile systems, as we can use them to replace the aging Redut-M systems.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Yes. But to be realistic, I think the deal would only cover BrahMos missile systems, as we can use them to replace the aging Redut-M systems.


Are there any more details on the expected Brahmos deal, for example, what version? Air, sea, land or all of them? And what platform to fire the missile if sea based?

Or only replacement for redut missile system in the first stage?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Are there any more details on the expected Brahmos deal, for example, what version? Air, sea, land or all of them? And what platform to fire the missile if sea based?
> 
> Or only replacement for redut missile system in the first stage?


Most likely to be land-based systems to replace the Redut-M (P-35B "Shaddock" missiles).

The Air Force prefers lighter and smaller missiles like Kh-31AD/PD and Kh-59MK/2, while the surface ships might be equipped with Kalibr and Yakhont missiles.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Most likely to be land-based systems to replace the Redut-M (P-35B "Shaddock" missiles).
> 
> The Air Force prefers lighter and smaller missiles like Kh-31AD/PD and Kh-59MK/2, while the surface ships might be equipped with Kalibr and Yakhont missiles.


Sounds great to me. I would guess the next generation of Gepard would carry Kalibr. However I wonder a bit about Yakhont on ships. We don't possess any warship yet, that can carry Yakhont, or do I miss something?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Sounds great to me. I would guess the next generation of Gepard would carry Kalibr. However I wonder a bit about Yakhont on ships. We don't possess any warship yet, that can carry Yakhont, or do I miss something?



The new Gepards (third batch) could carry Kalibr or Yakhont or even both at the same time since both missiles use the same UKSK VLS system.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Sounds great to me. I would guess the next generation of Gepard would carry Kalibr. However I wonder a bit about Yakhont on ships. We don't possess any warship yet, that can carry Yakhont, or do I miss something?


Not at the moment, but the plan to build such ships has been finalized and is waiting for funds.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Not at the moment, but the plan to build such ships has been finalized and is waiting for funds.


Aha interesting. Can you reveal more about the ship; tonnage, propulsion, weapon/radar systems and cost?



Carlosa said:


> The new Gepards (third batch) could carry Kalibr or Yakhont or even both at the same time since both missiles use the same UKSK VLS system.


I believe the Gepard must be modified and enlarged to carry Kalibr and Yakhont. I would like to see if the ship carry at least 16 missiles.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Aha interesting. Can you reveal more about the ship; tonnage, propulsion, weapon/radar systems and cost?
> 
> 
> I believe the Gepard must be modified and enlarged to carry Kalibr and Yakhont. I would like to see if the ship carry at least 16 missiles.



No need to enlarge it. There is a version that has the UKSK VLS launcher where the Palma is located now, it carries 8 missiles, no enough space for 16 unless the ship gets enlarged.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> No need to enlarge it. There is a version that has the UKSK VLS launcher where the Palma is located now, it carries 8 missiles, no enough space for 16 unless the ship gets enlarged.
> 
> View attachment 327546
> View attachment 327547
> View attachment 327548


The ship would be seriously weak with 8 missiles considering it must fight against surface warships and aircraft. I think we should keep the Palma and enlarge the gepard to accommodate VLS with 16 missiles.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> The ship would be seriously weak with 8 missiles considering it must fight against surface warships and aircraft. I think we should keep the Palma and enlarge the gepard to accommodate VLS with 16 missiles.



It is still seriously weak if you consider that the whole air defence is just the 2 Palmas; that's why I don't like the Gepard design.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> It is still seriously weak if you consider that the whole air defence is just the 2 Palmas; that's why I don't like the Gepard design.


We need a new ship class. Let see what silent knight can tell us about the new ship. I hope some sort of 4,000 ton light destroyer with credible air defense against aerial threats, VLS missiles against ships and land targets. In short we should have ships that are capable to fight against Chinese destroyers.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> Ms. mado will be more depressed if she knows Indonesia Leopard 2/A4 tank has no chance in a direct encounter with T-90MS. while the Russian tank would blow up the Leo after piercing through its armor like a hot sharp knife through butter, the Leo could only scratch and damage the T90´s armor a bit
> 
> Only the modernized model Leopard 2/A7 with new longer cannon, new armor piercing shells, can take on T-90. and Germany as the backbone of the NATO, the frontrunner with the strongest land army has the task to stop a potential russian invasion, currently has 22 Leopard 2/A7. the rest is Leopard 2 in A5 and A6 series. Amazing.
> 
> http://www.welt.de/print/wams/article140089405/Panzer-ohne-Power.html
> 
> @Carlosa
> 
> 
> I believe the picture shows Russia famous elite tank division, having the glorious task to defend Moscow



the real facts is Indonesian Leopard is real meanwhile Viet T90 is nowhere but gossips as it is now


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> the real facts is Indonesian Leopard is real meanwhile Viet T90 is nowhere but gossips as it is now



The real fact is that you don't know.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> The real fact is that you don't know.



simple no hard evidence is hoax


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> The real fact is that you don't know.


What do you know? This is an international forum; not viet kong forum where you spread all sort of rumor and gossip. Be professional and post real FACT, not hearsay


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## Farhan Bohra

madokafc said:


> the real facts is Indonesian Leopard is real meanwhile Viet T90 is nowhere but gossips as it is now


The Vietnamese new T-90 MS is true hunter killer. The new T-90 is no more similar to T-90 S.

MS was designed for Indian Army's requirements.


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## Nike

Farhan Bohra said:


> The Vietnamese new T-90 MS is true hunter killer. The T-90 is no more similar to T-90 S.
> 
> MS was designed for Indian Army's requirements.



the discussion should start when Vietnam T 90 is truly acquired or the deal had closed. I ve heard the rumours since decade but nothing materialized


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## Farhan Bohra

madokafc said:


> the discussion should start when Vietnam T 90 is truly acquired or the deal had closed. I ve heard the rumours since decade but nothing materialized


So why Vietnam buying T-90's simulator?


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## Nike

Farhan Bohra said:


> So why Vietnam buying T-90's simulator?



soha news?


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> simple no hard evidence is hoax



In the case of Vietnam, where purchases are not announced, no evidence simply means that can't prove it either way, simple as that.

Do you think Vietnam is buying a simulation system for T-90 without buying the tank?



hoangsa74 said:


> What do you know? This is an international forum; not viet kong forum where you spread all sort of rumor and gossip. Be professional and post real FACT, not hearsay



What I know is that nobody here has proof either way and if you know anything about how the vietnamese military operates, then you show know that they don't announce anything about army equipment. Those are facts of how things are in Vietnam, like it or not.


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## Farhan Bohra

madokafc said:


> soha news?


http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/luc...ua-luong-tang-t-90ms-lon-hon-du-dinh-3314382/

And @Carlosa 's post.

That's enough for me to believe as it coming from multiple sources.


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## Silent Knight

Easy, friends, when the time comes, they'll reveal the T-90MS. 

In the mean time, let's just assume that Vietnam doesn't have it either.

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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> What I know is that nobody here has proof either way and if you know anything about how the vietnamese military operates, then you show know that they don't announce anything about army equipment. Those are facts of how things are in Vietnam, like it or not.


Again, this is an international forum, not Vietnamese forum where gossip and hearsay are proof of the existence of a tank. People in here don't have to prove that viet kong don't have a tank; it is viet kong who has to prove that they have a tank if viet kong youths want people to take them seriously in an international forum like this. Until now, viet kong army is the most backward and weakest in southeast asia; viet kong does not even have any modern ATGM either. Even ISIS can defeat viet kong with ease; just look at how the Syrian army with all sort of t-72 and still loose.


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## BoQ77

I doubt that hoangsa74 is Vietnamese.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> Again, this is an international forum, not Vietnamese forum where gossip and hearsay are proof of the existence of a tank. People in here don't have to prove that viet kong don't have a tank; it is viet kong who has to prove that they have a tank if viet kong youths want people to take them seriously in an international forum like this. Until now, viet kong army is the most backward and weakest in southeast asia; viet kong does not even have any modern ATGM either. Even ISIS can defeat viet kong with ease; just look at how the Syrian army with all sort of t-72 and still loose.



Again, learn how things work in Vietnam on this particular subject and since you are talking about how to talk in an international forum, stop calling vietnamese people as viet cong. 

viet kong army is the most backward and weakest in southeast asia? You don't have a clue man, your bias makes you blind.



hoangsa74 said:


> Again, this is an international forum, not Vietnamese forum where gossip and hearsay are proof of the existence of a tank. People in here don't have to prove that viet kong don't have a tank; it is viet kong who has to prove that they have a tank if viet kong youths want people to take them seriously in an international forum like this. Until now, viet kong army is the most backward and weakest in southeast asia; viet kong does not even have any modern ATGM either. Even ISIS can defeat viet kong with ease; just look at how the Syrian army with all sort of t-72 and still loose.



@waz 

Can you do something about this guy that keeps calling Vietnamese people as "Viet Cong"? 
This guy comes here with a political agenda and is disrupting the thread.

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## Nike

what Vn army had right now is no better than what Cambodia had, older model of grad, t54, t34, btr 60, d30, m113 and other relics. The differences is Vietnam air def system is really good


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> Again, learn how things work in Vietnam on this particular subject and since you are talking about how to talk in an international forum, stop calling vietnamese people as viet cong.
> 
> viet kong army is the most backward and weakest in southeast asia? You don't have a clue man, your bias makes you blind.
> 
> 
> 
> @waz
> 
> Can you do something about this guy that keeps calling Vietnamese people as "Viet Cong"?
> This guy comes here with a political agenda and is disrupting the thread.


Even people in Vietnam call each other as viet kong this viet kong that. What's wrong with that? Even American textbooks use the term viet kong.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> Even people in Vietnam call each other as viet kong this viet kong that. What's wrong with that? Even American textbooks use the term viet kong.



Not true and is insulting to call *ALL vietnamese* as viet cong.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Not true and is insulting to call *ALL vietnamese* as viet cong.



American aim to different wing when using "V.C."
Nowaday US media never use that, because it's incorrect and cause audience to confuse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Cong


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## Silent Knight

madokafc said:


> what Vn army had right now is no better than what Cambodia had, older model of grad, t54, t34, btr 60, d30, m113 and other relics. The differences is Vietnam air def system is really good


You're partially correct.

Air Force and Navy were the focus of modernization in the last 15-20 years, so the Ground Force had to wait until this year for their turn in modernization. But saying that our equipment is no better than Cambodian ones is very unlikely, as Vietnam still develops and fields domestic upgrade programs for ground-based weapons.

The latest *official *upgrades for them included a new generation night visions for T-54/55 MBT and electro-optical station for AA guns. These are indigenous R&D programs.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> You're partially correct.
> 
> Air Force and Navy were the focus of modernization in the last 15-20 years, so the Ground Force had to wait until this year for their turn in modernization. But saying that our equipment is no better than Cambodian ones is very unlikely, as Vietnam still develops and fields domestic upgrade programs for ground-based weapons.
> 
> The latest *official *upgrades for them included a new generation night visions for T-54/55 MBT and electro-optical station for AA guns. These are indigenous R&D programs.



She is saying that because she wishes that it would be that way.

Just to give you some background since you are new in the forum, she is an ultra nationalistic Indonesian that dislikes (putting it mildly) Vietnam and Vietnamese, so she uses every opportunity that she can find to put Vietnam down. She tries to hide it, but thats what it is, we already know her quite well here.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> Even people in Vietnam call each other as viet kong this viet kong that. What's wrong with that? Even American textbooks use the term viet kong.


I know King Kong from a cinema film, and a new version was made, with scenes being shot in Vietnam recently. But viet Kong? With "k"?

I suggest you stop here and return to topic. Nobody in Vietnam calls each other in such way. Because in doing so, you will risk receiving a fist in the face.



Carlosa said:


> She is saying that because she wishes that it would be that way.
> 
> Just to give you some background since you are new in the forum, she is an ultra nationalistic Indonesian that dislikes (putting it mildly) Vietnam and Vietnamese, so she uses every opportunity that she can find to put Vietnam down. She tries to hide it, but thats what it is, we already know her quite well here.


she is very upset now.

I posted here once an article from Russia (Sputnik), praising the Vietnamese military is one of a few global forces that could threaten China in a conventional war. She might have read it, because the article failed to mention Indonesia

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Not true and is insulting to call *ALL vietnamese* as viet cong.


Yes,i feel embarrassed when someone calls me as " Vietcong" Vietcong is the term to indicate Vietnamese communist.In Vietnam, have only 3 million among 90 population, 87 million are not like me 



madokafc said:


> the discussion should start when Vietnam T 90 is truly acquired or the deal had closed. I ve heard the rumours since decade but nothing materialized


How do you think between Viet and Thailand military, Who is stronger than?

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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Again, this is an international forum, not Vietnamese forum where gossip and hearsay are proof of the existence of a tank. People in here don't have to prove that viet kong don't have a tank; it is viet kong who has to prove that they have a tank if viet kong youths want people to take them seriously in an international forum like this. Until now, viet kong army is the most backward and weakest in southeast asia; viet kong does not even have any modern ATGM either. Even ISIS can defeat viet kong with ease; just look at how the Syrian army with all sort of t-72 and still loose.


If you have any problem with the post, then report it, why not you doing so?

Or you writing a Ph.D thesis quoting PDF forum?



Viet said:


> She might have read it, because the article failed to mention Indonesia



When the last time Indonesia fought any battle? Or some theater level military exercise? Answer is pretty clear.



madokafc said:


> what Vn army had right now is no better than what Cambodia had, older model of grad, t54, t34, btr 60, d30, m113 and other relics. The differences is Vietnam air def system is really good


Are you serious?

Please tell me Tailand using which DPSA aircraft, which high tech frigates and submarines they using?

Dont tell us you considering aircraft carrier, that is without CBG. Or you considered T-84 Oplot M will win the war in age of combined air-land-sea campaigns?

@Carlosa 

Check this video how much these moron Thai officers acting like and laughing on Indian Army's high altitude war fighting capabilities. I am shocked that these are officers from professional army.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> Check this video how much these moron Thai officers acting like and laughing on Indian Army's high altitude war fighting capabilities. I am shocked that these are officers from professional army.



I used to live in Thailand for a number of years. I know very well how professional the Thai army is, they are very professional when it comes to killing protesters or Cambodians sneaking through the border looking for work, other than that, they are useless.

Even tiny Laos repelled a Thai invasion. The Cambodians are actually better soldiers even that they hardly have any hardware.

They are a joke, totally corrupted. The aircraft carrier that doesn't have any aircraft is used as a public attraction, like a museum for people to visit.

I used to have a friend in Thailand, former US army, he was doing maintenance work for American equipment in the Thai army, he had lots of horror stories to say about them.

Now they are going to buy chinese submarines so that they can say "we have them too", never mind that the gulf of Thailand is no more than 50-60 meters deep.

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## Bennedict

Farhan Bohra said:


> When the last time Indonesia fought any battle? Or some theater level military exercise? Answer is pretty clear.



2016 major exercises:
-RIMPAC 2016 (Multilateral)
-Garuda Shield Exercise (US-Indonesia, yearly)
-Carat 2016 (Multilateral
- Latihan Marinir Terpadu/Marine Corps exercise (yearly)
- Malindo Dasarsa 2016 (Malaysia-Indonesia)
- Indopura 2016 (Indonesia-Singapore, yearly)
- Exercise Pitch Black 2016 (Multilateral)

For theater level/divisional level we have Combined Arms Exercises (Army-Air force-Navy-Marine Corps) which being held every 1-2 years (15-20.000+ soldies involved)
-

ms madoka just pointing out that Vietnam should provide more budget for the ground forces, since you have land border with China. The situation now different than those in I979 when you both using Type 59's and AK's. Their bulk of tanks now consisting of modern Type 96's and ZBD-97(based on BMP-3), which would steamroll anything your army have today.

just my two cents

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## xiao qi

Farhan Bohra said:


> If you have any problem with the post, then report it, why not you doing so?
> 
> 
> 
> Check this video how much these moron *Thai officers acting like and laughing on Indian Army's high altitude war fighting capabilities*. I am shocked that these are officers from professional army.


Realy? In border clash between Vietnam and Thailand on Cambodia's border, Vietnamese soldiers loved to chase Thailand's soldiers. When they saw Vietnamese soldiers, they ran quickly and left their commodities..i heard from one Cambodian . oh he said in Utapao. this was attacked by Vietnamese special forces in Vietnam War. http://khmerization.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-khmer-american-army-expert-thai-army.html



Carlosa said:


> I used to live in Thailand for a number of years. I know very well how professional the Thai army is, they are very professional when it comes to killing protesters or Cambodians sneaking through the border looking for work, other than that, they are useless.
> 
> Even tiny Laos repelled a Thai invasion. The Cambodians are actually better soldiers even that they hardly have any hardware.
> 
> They are a joke, totally corrupted. The aircraft carrier that doesn't have any aircraft is used as a public attraction, like a museum for people to visit.
> 
> I used to have a friend in Thailand, former US army, he was doing maintenance work for American equipment in the Thai army, he had lots of horror stories to say about them.
> 
> Now they are going to buy chinese submarines so that they can say "we have them too", never mind that the gulf of Thailand is no more than 50-60 meters deep.


until now i don't understand why did Thailand buy a useless aircraft? lol


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## Farhan Bohra

Bennedict said:


> 2016 major exercises:
> -RIMPAC 2016 (Multilateral)
> -Garuda Shield Exercise (US-Indonesia, yearly)
> -Carat 2016 (Multilateral
> - Latihan Marinir Terpadu/Marine Corps exercise (yearly)
> - Malindo Dasarsa 2016 (Malaysia-Indonesia)
> - Indopura 2016 (Indonesia-Singapore, yearly)
> - Exercise Pitch Black 2016 (Multilateral)


From when bilateral exercises become doctrine and war-fighting exercises?



> For theater level/divisional level we have Combined Arms Exercises (Army-Air force-Navy-Marine Corps) which being held every 1-2 years (15-20.000+ soldies involved)
> -


Please give a link, I want to see when the last time Indonesia done a Division level exercise, leave alone theater level which involve a whole corp.



> ms madoka just pointing out that Vietnam should provide more budget for the ground forces, since you have land border with China.
> 
> just my two cents



But Vietnam already bought hunter-killer T-90 MS.



> The situation now different than those in I979 when you both using Type 59's and AK's. Their bulk of tanks now consisting of modern Type 96's and ZBD-97(based on BMP-3), which would steamroll anything your army have today.


My Army? What interest Indian Army have in Thailand?

BTW, how they steamroll Indian Army, by invading Burma. Are you crazy? Or dont know geography of earth?

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## Carlosa

No need to make this into an Indonesia vs Vietnam thing, there are no problems between the 2 countries and there is no issues with most Indonesian members, the issues are mainly with 2 of them, the sis and the one with the avatar of a cat, those are the ones that we have issues with, other than them, no problems.



xiao qi said:


> until now i don't understand why did Thailand buy a useless aircraft? lol



Its very easy to understand if you understand Thai psychology, something that you learn easily when you live there.

They love to show off, so having the only aircraft carrier in ASEAN is a big plus for their ego.
Not having subs when others do is losing face, so that's why they want to buy them.
That's how they think and operate.



xiao qi said:


> Realy? In border clash between Vietnam and Thailand on Cambodia's border, Vietnamese soldiers loved to chase Thailand's soldiers. When they saw Vietnamese soldiers, they ran quickly and left their commodities..i heard from one Cambodian . oh he said in Utapao. this was attacked by Vietnamese special forces in Vietnam War. http://khmerization.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-khmer-american-army-expert-thai-army.htmll



That is correct, running is what they do best when facing vietnamese forces, even if they had better hardware.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> No need to make this into an Indonesia vs Vietnam thing, there are no problems between the 2 countries and there is no issues with most Indonesian members, the issues are mainly with 2 of them, the sis and the one with the avatar of a cat, those are the ones that we have issues with, other than them, no problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Its very easy to understand if you understand Thai psychology, something that you learn easily when you live there.
> 
> They love to show off, so having the only aircraft carrier in ASEAN is a big plus for their ego.
> Not having subs when others do is losing face, so that's why they want to buy them.
> That's how they think and operate.


nothing to say


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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> My Army? What interest Indian Army have in Thailand?
> 
> BTW, how they steamroll Indian Army, by invading Burma. Are you crazy? Or dont know geography of earth?



He is talking China vs Vietnam, not India.

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## Aqsuperman

hoangsa74 said:


> Again, this is an international forum, not Vietnamese forum where gossip and hearsay are proof of the existence of a tank. People in here don't have to prove that viet kong don't have a tank; it is viet kong who has to prove that they have a tank if viet kong youths want people to take them seriously in an international forum like this. Until now, viet kong army is the most backward and weakest in southeast asia; viet kong does not even have any modern ATGM either. Even ISIS can defeat viet kong with ease; just look at how the Syrian army with all sort of t-72 and still loose.



Well i guess your face is made of something that rather strong.

First, you claim this in an internal forum and require "professionalism" , Yet you keep calling VN and VN army as "Vietkong" ? That term is insulting to Vietnamese no matter what region you are in. Its like you keep insulting people and demand a "right attitude" here. NOT a single soul in here or in real life call each other "viet kong". We dont called you "Đồ 3 que đu càng" or "Ngụy con té càng" here so the next time you mention "viet kong", i will start refering you as the above so you better drop it. But in the rare case that you are not Vietnamese, i will come up to something to make sure that you get what you deserve for that pathetic and retarded behaviors of your.

Second, T-90 rumors. Military equipment states are usually more of a guess through circumstances evidences than concrete proof. Are North Korea and Iran are nuclear - armed countries with credible means to deliver them? You can called 999 "professional" analyzers around the globe and still cant come to a 100% conclusion. That is why we have forums. People can debate all they want as long as the its not switch to inter personal insult. You dont argue with Asians while calling them "ching chong". Same can be said with Vietnamese and "viet kong" 

Third, VN army status. "Weakest in Souteast asia" ? Pfff, you make me laugh. What do you want ? AT-5 ? RPG-29 ? those are not enough to punch holes in tanks ? Arab Saudi M1 Abrams are being blow up in Yemen by the above weapons. An Army strength not just show by parades and pictures. Of course we are not claiming that we cant defeat jet with bamboo but we sure have enough modern MANPADSs to do the job. Same can be said a bout VN land force. You havent spend a single days in VN Army so its fcking stupid to proclaim a nation military strength. And if you thought that you are "proficient" in military tactics, drop by to Cali and teach your fellow "Three stripe on a yellow toilet paper" how to fight.

Moving on. Vietnam is considering an increase contribution to the UN force. We have only sent a small force consist of communication personnel and pioneer. But a field medic team will soon be assemble with probably up to a few hundreds man. We will mainly work with Sweden and Indian force.

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## waz

hoangsa74 said:


> Even people in Vietnam call each other as viet kong this viet kong that. What's wrong with that? Even American textbooks use the term viet kong.



Viet kong is banned term, please do not use it.

Dear posters please discuss defence e.g. new purchases and post media. *This thread is not for debating. *

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## Silent Knight

Well, for the lack of modern MBT, we surely compensate by lots of ATGM and RPG-29 

Sure, no modern MBT can be a bad think in an offensive operation, but those anti-tank weapon can and will be use effectively and devastatingly during urban defensive combat.

And for the sake of pictures and videos.

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## Viet

Where to get the funds for new ships?

The army has transferred 21 ha land to the Civil Airport authority, enabling Tân Sơn Nhất airport to expand from the current capacity of 25 millions passengers a year to 40 millions. I would expect the airport pays a respectable sum as compensation


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## Viet

*Arming the Rival's Enemy: Why Modi’s Visit to Vietnam Might Irk China*
© AFP 2016/ JUSTIN TALLIS
Asia & Pacific
09.08.2016

Modi’s visit to Vietnam will be the first bilateral visit to the country by an Indian Prime Minister since 2001.







New Delhi (Sputnik) — Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Vietnam, the first by an Indian head of government in the last 15 years, is being seen as India's attempt to counter China's influence in South East Asia. In contrast to former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's visit to the country in 2001, this visit will primarily focus on defense export and maritime partnership, sources said.

It is expected that India will offer a range of military equipment to Vietnam including the BrahMos missile and Varunastra anti-submarine torpedo. Vietnam had earlier expressed interest in the naval version of the BrahMos. While, India expects to open the window for the sale of the first homegrown heavyweight anti-submarine torpedo Varunastra. India had earlier announced a credit line of USD100 million during President Pranab Mukherjee's visit to Vietnam for procurement of off-shore patrol boats.

Experts see this visit as a counterstroke to China's policy of arming India's rival Pakistan for decades. Bharat Karnad, former member of India's National Security Council and security analyst, told Sputnik, "India should not only equip Vietnam with the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile but also transfer to Hanoi the 700 km Agni-1 medium-range ballistic missile; but suitably disguised as falling within the MTCR-mandated 300 km range restrictions. China has already done its worst. It is time for India to reciprocate amply in equal measure."

The roadmap for the upcoming high level visit was prepared by both countries during 8th Foreign Office Consultations and Strategic Dialogue meeting held in New Delhi on August 2, 2016. According to India's Ministry of External Affairs, "At the 8th Foreign Office Consultations meeting the two sides held deliberations on an entire gamut of bilateral relations, including the forthcoming high level visits. During the Strategic Dialogue meeting, both sides discussed ruling of United Nations' tribunal ruling on South China Sea."

Karnad says, "The tragedy is that the Indian government has taken so long to realize the strategic value of responding to China in kind as a tit-for-tat measure against its nuclear missile arming Pakistan. I have long argued that if India lacks the stomach for a fight with China, as seems to be the case, then India's national interest is best served by arming to the hilt Vietnam, the only country that despite comprehensive disparity with China, has repeatedly shown the guts and the gumption to take on the Chinese military."

Meawnwhile, India's space agency ISRO is already working towards the establishment of a Satellite Tracking & Data Reception Station and Data Processing Facility in Vietnam for ASEAN member countries. This station will cover the entire region of ASEAN including the South China Sea. During Modi's visit, it is also expected that both countries will agree to upgrade all the military equipment like the T-54, T-55 and helicopters.

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## Nike

Farhan Bohra said:


> From when bilateral exercises become doctrine and war-fighting exercises?
> 
> 
> Please give a link, I want to see when the last time Indonesia done a Division level exercise, leave alone theater level which involve a whole corp.
> 
> 
> 
> But Vietnam already bought hunter-killer T-90 MS.
> 
> 
> My Army? What interest Indian Army have in Thailand?
> 
> BTW, how they steamroll Indian Army, by invading Burma. Are you crazy? Or dont know geography of earth?



theater level? corps ? we done it since long combining naval and air force elements along with dozen thousands of marine corps, the ones i dont see to have the capability is the Vn army itself


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## xiao qi

madokafc said:


> theater level? corps ? we done it since long combining naval and air force elements along with dozen thousands of marine corps, the ones i dont see to have the capability is the Vn army itself


pro, i must say that: one thousand drill exercises don't confirm for the capability of one army, many things isn't express based on "exercise". The real war is different . Example, When they attend an exercise , they know they can't die, it makes you don't know your soldiers is brave or not. Your tactics on an exercise, uh the commander uses based on "fake enemy thought". In the real war, your commander can't know it. Of course, i don't say : The drilling exercise is useless. But comparison two army nation based on that, it seems "ridiculous". Your army looks modern and profession. i admire that!


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## Nike

xiao qi said:


> pro, i must say that: one thousand drill exercises don't confirm for the capability of one army, many things isn't express based on "exercise". The real war is different . Example, When they attend an exercise , they know they can't die, it makes you don't know your soldiers is brave or not. Your tactics on an exercise, uh the commander uses based on "fake enemy thought". In the real war, your commander can't know it. Of course, i don't say : The drilling exercise is useless. But comparison two army nation based on that, it seems "ridiculous". Your army looks modern and profession. i admire



i dont intend to ridicule anybody here specially Vn, my country had a high regard and placing Vn as one of the most important partner in the region. Since Ali Alatas and Adam Malik era, Indonesia want to build strategic partnership with Vietnam who had been known as Indonesia natural partner and choice to limiting the influences of certain Country up north of the block. 

Your country maybe a commies but at least they are not Maoist, and mostly driven by Nationalist virtue not the ideology ones and to ensure there is no clash between China and Indonesia, a strong and cooperate Vietnam is needed.

My comments seem harsh but mostly derived by simple hard facts

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## xiao qi

madokafc said:


> i dont intend to ridicule anybody here specially Vn, my country had a high regard and placing Vn as one of the most important partner in the region. Since Ali Alatas and Adam Malik era, Indonesia want to build strategic partnership with Vietnam who had been known as Indonesia natural partner and choice to limiting the influences of certain Country up north of the block.
> 
> Your country maybe a commies but at least they are not Maoist, and mostly driven by Nationalist virtue not the ideology ones and to ensure there is no clash between China and Indonesia, a strong and cooperate Vietnam is needed.
> 
> My comments seem harsh but mostly derived by simple hard facts


It is your opinion, I appreciated it, also don't feel uncomfortable for that


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## BoQ77

madokafc said:


> i dont intend to ridicule anybody here specially Vn, my country had a high regard and placing Vn as one of the most important partner in the region. Since Ali Alatas and Adam Malik era, Indonesia want to build strategic partnership with Vietnam who had been known as Indonesia natural partner and choice to limiting the influences of certain Country up north of the block.
> 
> Your country maybe a commies but at least they are not Maoist, and mostly driven by Nationalist virtue not the ideology ones and to ensure there is no clash between China and Indonesia, a strong and cooperate Vietnam is needed.
> 
> My comments seem harsh but mostly derived by simple hard facts



I love you @madokafc posts.
But I must admit that it's difficult to measure other military without the thorough study and military knowledge basis.
The Indonesia is essential element for security of the region. Vietnam follows you.

So our relation is cooperative not opposive.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> iMy comments seem harsh but mostly derived by simple hard facts



Your comments are far from hard facts. You ignore plenty of hard facts. Saying that Thailand has a better army is already far from the hard facts (They don't even have 1 single antiaircraft missile, they still use guns only), but to say that VN has not better than Cambodia is a new low for you.



madokafc said:


> i dont intend to ridicule anybody here specially Vn, my country had a high regard and placing Vn as one of the most important partner in the region. Since Ali Alatas and Adam Malik era, Indonesia want to build strategic partnership with Vietnam who had been known as Indonesia natural partner and choice to limiting the influences of certain Country up north of the block.



This is nice for a change and it would be nicer if you were to actually follow that.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Your comments are far from hard facts. You ignore plenty of hard facts. Saying that Thailand has a better army is already far from the hard facts (They don't even have 1 single antiaircraft missile, they still use guns only), but to say that VN has not better than Cambodia is a new low for you.
> 
> 
> 
> This is nice for a change and it would be nicer if you were to actually follow that.


i saw some Thai comments about their DTI 



 Is it better than Scud? In near future, im inspecting Vietnamese in Cambodia. Especially when the election is coming , Hunsen will be ousted, Hope two nations will resolve common issues as a peaceful way, Vietnamese lives when they haven't legal documentation


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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> i saw some Thai comments about their DTI
> 
> 
> 
> Is it better than Scud? In near future, im inspecting Vietnamese in Cambodia. Especially when the election is coming , Hunsen will be ousted, Hope two nations will resolve common issues as a peaceful way, Vietnamese lives when they haven't legal documentation



That's not a ballistic missile, its a 302 mm MLRS system with terminal GPS guidance. Range is just 70-150km. Its more like the EXTRA but just for fixed targets.
There is very little information as of now, its just becoming operational.



xiao qi said:


> In near future, im inspecting Vietnamese in Cambodia. Especially when the election is coming , Hunsen will be ousted, Hope two nations will resolve common issues as a peaceful way, Vietnamese lives when they haven't legal documentation



If Hun Sen goes and Sam Rainsy comes in, that's very bad news for Vietnam.

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> i dont intend to ridicule anybody here specially Vn, my country had a high regard and placing Vn as one of the most important partner in the region. Since Ali Alatas and Adam Malik era, Indonesia want to build strategic partnership with Vietnam who had been known as Indonesia natural partner and choice to limiting the influences of certain Country up north of the block.
> 
> Your country maybe a commies but at least they are not Maoist, and mostly driven by Nationalist virtue not the ideology ones and to ensure there is no clash between China and Indonesia, a strong and cooperate Vietnam is needed.
> 
> My comments seem harsh but mostly derived by simple hard facts


ach come on. more simple hard hards. I expect you soon compare Viet navy to that of Laos

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> That's not a ballistic missile, its a 302 mm MLRS system with terminal GPS guidance. Range is just 70-150km. Its more like the EXTRA but just for fixed targets.
> There is very little information as of now, its just becoming operational.
> 
> 
> 
> If Hun Sen goes and Sam Rainsy comes in, that's very bad news for Vietnam.


Ok, i have one mistake when to compare it , @Carlosa The DTI-1 missiles used by Thailand are made by China and they have a striking distance range of 180 km. more one interesting information, Rainsy's mother is Vietnamese.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Ok, i have one mistake when to compare it , @Carlosa The DTI-1 missiles used by Thailand are made by China and they have a striking distance range of 180 km.



Oh made by China? Interesting, they make it look like is made in Thailand. Are you sure?



xiao qi said:


> more one interesting information, Rainsy's mother is Vietnamese.



Interesting, but he hates Vietnamese for some reason.


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Oh made by China? Interesting, they make it look like is made in Thailand. Are you sure?
> 
> 
> Interesting, but he hates Vietnamese for some reason.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weishi_Rockets , Thai has copyright to make itself. Some Cambodian didn't believe Sam, They supposed Sam is coward and Vietnamese' spy, He seems " hate Vietnamese" .

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Interesting, but he hates Vietnamese for some reason.


our relationship to Cambodia is complicated. if Sam Rainsy successfully grabs the power, then thing will turn tense, especially if the chinese begin to support him with money and ideology. one should know cambodia economy is controlled by vietnamese and chinese businesses. so everything has to do with money.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> our relationship to Cambodia is complicated. if Sam Rainsy successfully grabs the power, then thing will turn tense, especially if the chinese begin to support him with money and ideology. one should know cambodia economy is controlled by vietnamese and chinese businesses. so everything has to do with money.



Is Hun Sen rule coming to an end?


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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weishi_Rockets , Thai has copyright to make itself. Some Cambodian didn't believe Sam, They supposed Sam is coward and Vietnamese' spy, He seems " hate Vietnamese" .



Ah ok, thank you. Thailand is just doing licensed production.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> our relationship to Cambodia is complicated. if Sam Rainsy successfully grabs the power, then thing will turn tense, especially if the chinese begin to support him with money and ideology. one should know cambodia economy is controlled by vietnamese and chinese businesses. so everything has to do with money.


Almost are Chinese. Sam Rainsy is the mad man, he finds all of the ways to confront Hunsen and ignored poor Cambodian. http://www.en.freshnewsasia.com/ind...ainsy-to-retract-demand-for-eu-market-closure



Nilgiri said:


> Is Hun Sen rule coming to an end?


Yes, 2018 the election in Cambodia, Hunsen is trying to lure Cambodian. But it seems his efforts will fail. Cambodian hates him, He is corrupt and unbelievable .

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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> Yes, 2018 the election in Cambodia, Hunsen is trying to lure Cambodian. But it seems his efforts will fail. Cambodian hates him, He is corrupt and unbelievable .



Hun Sen cannot just rig the election? Too much potentially risky backlash?

I remember back many years ago when he was very secure in power.

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> Hun Sen cannot just rig the election? Too much potentially risky backlash?
> 
> I remember back many years ago when he was very secure in power.


In don't think Hunsen can grab his seat anymore, Especially when one famous Cambodian commentator KemLey was slain, Thousand Cambodian demonstrated on the road and every day, I see Cambodian's post on Facebook .They are hoping the election to kick Hunsen.

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## Farhan Bohra

madokafc said:


> theater level? corps ? we done it since long combining naval and air force elements along with dozen thousands of marine corps, the ones i dont see to have the capability is the Vn army itself


Yes Corp or theater level exercise involve 50,000 to 80,000 troops. Corp level exercises are useful in creating new war doctrines. And division level exercise to check the preparedness.

If neither Indonesia nor Vietnam done so, then why creating Cambodia Armed Forces as larger than life? Which is too much unprofessional.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Is Hun Sen rule coming to an end?


No not yet. Maybe in 10 years if he is too old to hold on power. Hun Sen is a smart fox. He speaks Vietnamese, his wife is Vietnamese, he learns everything from Vietnam from conducting warfare on battlefield to how to run political intrigues. Just now, he is kicking the opposition party out of parliament and arresting some of them. The chance is high the next general election will run without Rainsy party.

The unknown factor is China. What game she plays.

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## xiao qi

Farhan Bohra said:


> Yes Corp or theater level exercise involve 50,000 to 80,000 troops. Corp level exercises are useful in creating new war doctrines. And division level exercise to check the preparedness.
> 
> If neither Indonesia nor Vietnam done so, then why creating Cambodia Armed Forces as larger than life? Which is too much unprofessional.


Experiences were paid by blood not exercises, Exercises is just preparation.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> No not yet. Maybe in 10 years if he is too old to hold on power. Hun Sen is a smart fox. He speaks Vietnamese, his wife is Vietnamese, he learns everything from Vietnam from conducting warfare on battlefield to how to run political intrigues. Just now, he is kicking the opposition party out of parliament and arresting some of them. The chance is high the next general election will run without Rainsy party.
> 
> The unknown factor is China. What game she plays.



Yes I know all the history behind him (watched Khmer rouge documentary that showed how they purged him, how he fled to vietnam and how vietnam was instrumental in setting him up initially).

I always found the whole politics in the region quite interesting.


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## Silent Knight

Cambodia these days is very smart. Then can strike a balance between the two powers that affecting them, as is Vietnam and China.

China has more economic power, while Vietnam keep a strong hold on Cambodian political and military might. Sam Rainsy is not a powerful factor, he's pretty much expendable at this point.

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> Yes I know all the history behind him (watched Khmer rouge documentary that showed how they purged him, how he fled to vietnam and how vietnam was instrumental in setting him up initially).
> 
> I always found the whole politics in the region quite interesting.


Because of the stupidity of Polpot, he thought he could defeat Vietnamese like Vietnam did with American. With a weak nation like Cambodian, it is the better way if they are neutral , they shouldn't provoke their neighbors like Vietnam and Thailand. Hunsen or not Hunsen is Cambodia's president , it isn't the matter with Vietnam. i believe they had a bad lesson in their past to against Viet

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Oh made by China? Interesting, they make it look like is made in Thailand. Are you sure?
> Interesting, but he hates Vietnamese for some reason.



Politicians.
What would you do if you were Sam Rainsy ?
Everybody know, Hun Sen's party harden by Vietnam,
antagonize Vietnam would be the most effective way to attract the supporters from Hun Sen side.
Rainsy could do it, without any hatred to Vietnam.
There's no other ways
----------
More interesting to watch HunSen response
He pretends that he get no affection from Vietnam. as counter strike to Rainsy criticism
----------
If Khmer Rouge in power ? just replace Vietnam name by China. Done

That's how the political system of a tiny country runs.


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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> Because of the stupidity of Polpot, he thought he could defeat Vietnamese like Vietnam did with American. With a weak nation like Cambodian, it is the better way if they are neutral , they shouldn't provoke their neighbors like Vietnam and Thailand. Hunsen or not Hunsen is Cambodia's president , it isn't the matter with Vietnam. i believe they had a bad lesson in their past to against Viet



BTW your DP is really too cute


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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> BTW your DP is really too cute


My girlfriend i love her but she doesn't know me .Come to Vietnam and i will introduce a cute girl for you

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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> My girlfriend i love her but she doesn't know me .Come to Vietnam and i will introduce a cute girl for you



Yes I will keep it in mind hehe. Always wanted to visit Vietnam thoroughly in a road trip....I absolutely love pho!

Is French still spoken a lot? Because I speak fluent French.

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> Yes I will keep it in mind hehe. Always wanted to visit Vietnam thoroughly in a road trip....I absolutely love pho!
> 
> Is French still spoken a lot? Because I speak fluent French.


no, it isn't. English is more popular than.

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## Farhan Bohra

xiao qi said:


> Experiences were paid by blood not exercises, Exercises is just preparation.


You pay less blood if you sweat more.

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## Farhan Bohra

There are some rumours that India also offered T-72 to Vietnam with Tank Ex upgrade package( Arjun Mk.2 Turret) .

That's a photoshop but new tank look something like this.
















Weight of tank would be around 48-51 ton. The tank able to fire missiles like CLGM and LAHAT.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> You pay less blood if you sweat more.


I am for our army conducting exercises with other countries, collecting experience promoting friendship with other armies. With America, Japan, Korea and Australia armed forces. as far as I know, the *US Marine Corps* wants to do it on land and sea with Vietnam, but there are still too much sensibilities in Vietnam hindering such exercises to happen. My bet is, if the Chinese continue advancing their arrogance and aggression in the region, conducting regular exercises, including inviting Russia navy to the drills, bullying our fishermen, the day will come such domestic sensibilities will disappear.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> Weight of tank would be around 48-51 ton. The tank able to fire missiles like CLGM and LAHAT.


Is it just me or the turret is really high compare to the T-72B3 and T-90MS?


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## Nilgiri

Silent Knight said:


> Is it just me or the turret is really high compare to the T-72B3 and T-90MS?



Very few tanks are so low profile as the T-72 family....with possible exception of S-tank (but that does away with a turret altogether). 

Thats the advantage when you go for autoloading (which has other drawbacks though).


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Is it just me or the turret is really high compare to the T-72B3 and T-90MS?


Some 10 years ago it look like this.






But technologies changed and lot of new things added.



Silent Knight said:


> Is it just me or the turret is really high compare to the T-72B3 and T-90MS?


Obviously silhouette is larger compare to T-72 M2.

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## Aqsuperman

And when you think that there will not be a plot twist here.

"Mr Duterte said he might ask China and African nations to form another body. He also accused the UN of failing on terrorism, hunger and ending conflicts."

Just............lol. How world change in the blink of an eye........

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37147630


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## Silent Knight

Aqsuperman said:


> Just............lol. How world change in the blink of an eye........
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37147630


Not surprising, considering the Filipinos always accused him of being too friendly and pro-China before the election. 

@Farhan Bohra I don't think our Ground Force would choose your upgrade package.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> @Farhan Bohra I don't think our Ground Force would choose your upgrade package.



What would be the reason?



Farhan Bohra said:


> There are some rumours that India also offered T-72 to Vietnam with Tank Ex upgrade package( Arjun Mk.2 Turret) .
> 
> That's a photoshop but new tank look something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weight of tank would be around 48-51 ton. The tank able to fire missiles like CLGM and LAHAT.



So what you are saying is to put a brand new Arjuna turret on the old T-72s?

The Arjuna is actually a very good tank, although quite heavy.

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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Not surprising, considering the Filipinos always accused him of being too friendly and pro-China before the election.
> 
> @Farhan Bohra I don't think our Ground Force would choose your upgrade package.


I have the same feeling. 

As buying tank is not just about tank, but about ammunition and logistics. 

This tank indeed will be true hunter killer surpassing T-90 MS. But changing logistics, training and ammunition is pretty hard job.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Is it just me or the turret is really high compare to the T-72B3 and T-90MS?


I think it is because we see men sitting on the turret. the mounted device makes the tank higher. More vulnerable to enemy fire.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> What would be the reason?
> 
> 
> 
> So what you are saying is to put a brand new Arjuna turret on the old T-72s?
> 
> The Arjuna is actually a very good tank, although quite heavy.


Arjun is for contact battles in plains, while T-90 & T-72 is for protecting the flanks over bridgeheads. 

Now IA even started to deploy T-72 over mountains.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> I have the same feeling.
> 
> As buying tank is not just about tank, but about ammunition and logistics.
> 
> This tank indeed will be true hunter killer surpassing T-90 MS. But changing logistics, training and ammunition is pretty hard job.



Can always change the 120mm gun and use the 125mm gun of the T-90MS.


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## Silent Knight

Different guns, more logistic demands and training for that difference.

Also the Arjun has no export order as far as I concern, while the T-72 and T-90 are widely exported to several countries.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Different guns, more logistic demands and training for that difference.
> 
> Also the Arjun has no export order as far as I concern, while the T-72 and T-90 are widely exported to several countries.



Yes, at the time that I wrote the question to you, I was not aware that it was using a 120mm gun, it needs to be 125mm for Vietnam.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Yes, at the time that I wrote the question to you, I was not aware that it was using a 120mm gun, it needs to be 125mm for Vietnam.


Moreover, it is rifled not smoothbore.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Moreover, it is rifled not smoothbore.


bro we need panzer with cannon that can pierce through armor of Chinese tank. can 120mm do that? I don´t think it can. like the Leopard 2/A6 with 120mm cannon, it can´t. I think T-90 with 125 mm main gun will fit our needs. is there much difference between rifled and smoothbore in respect to speed and power?

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## Viet

*Two B-52s fly over for Vietnam veterans Long Tan ceremony at Australian War Memorial *


*David Ellery*  
August 18 2016

About 1500 Vietnam veterans from across Australia saw B-52 bombers in the air for the first time since the end of the war.

The planes, both from the United States Air Force's 69th Expeditionary Bomb Squadron, flew an 18-hour, 11,000 km mission from Andersen Air Force Base on Guam to take part in the commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan at the Australian War Memorial.







_Vietnam era USAF B-52 Bombers fly over Canberra to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan. Photo: Rohan Thomson_


Two of the squadron's pilots flew to Canberra to act as liaison officers.

"It was a privilege to take part in the ceremony," said one, who cannot be named for security reasons, but goes by the call sign "Slam", told Fairfax Media.


The 69th, which is normally housed at Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, rotated to Andersen in February and March this year. "Deployments are for six months so we are coming to the end of our tour," Slam said.

The two planes that flew over Canberra in company with a Hercules, a Caribou, two DC3s, an Iroquois helicopter, a Sioux helicopter a Cessna 0-2 and Cessna Bird Dog, were B-52 H variants.

These, the last of a line that first saw the light of the day in 1952 and went into service in 1955, are 12.4 metres tall and weigh more than 83 tonnes when empty.

They are 48.5 metres long and 56.4 metres from wing tip to wing tip.






_The planes flew from Andersen Air Force Base on Guam to take part in the 50th commemoration. Photo: Andrew Meares_






_Vietnam era USAF B-52 Bombers fly over Canberra. Photo: Rohan Thomson_


A B-52 H can carry up to 32 tonnes of munitions and has a maximum speed of 1047 km/h. The planes, the largest combat aircraft operated by the USAF, have a 16,000 km range.

Ian Thompson, president of the Vietnam Veterans and Veterans Federation of the ACT and the organiser of the Long Tan commemoration fly past, said he was surprised and delighted on Wednesday when told that not one but two of the big bombers were coming.






_A view over Canberra as the Vietnam era USAF B-52 Bombers fly over. Photo: Rohan Thomson_


"We had asked for one," he said. "It meant so much to the USAF and the US government to have an aerial presence over Canberra for this event that they sent two planes just to make sure.

"Everybody we worked with on this, from the bottom to the top of the US government, was determined to make this a success. I believe this is in recognition of Australia's role as America's principal ally [in the Vietnam war].

"The USAF would have treated this as a high-profile training exercise and you wouldn't have gotten change out of a couple of million dollars."

Mr Thompson, a helicopter pilot in Vietnam who went on to fly fighters after the war before becoming a Qantas pilot, said the Long Tan anniversary had been a red letter occasion for his members.

"Nearly 60,000 men and women served in Vietnam," he said. "The [community] attitude towards is in 1974 and 1975 was abysmal. It has taken a long time to get over that slight.

"We had 100 veterans from the battle here today and 1500 or more Vietnam veterans all up. This is two to three times what you would normally expect at one of these events."


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## xiao qi

Battle of Long Tan, has a documentary film about that 



. It exaggerates Aus veterans to sky when they encountered battle-hardened Vietnamese soldiers. They are very proud of achievements

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## MacanJawa

cant wait to see vietnam t-90



Viet said:


> bro we need panzer with cannon that can pierce through armor of Chinese tank. can 120mm do that? I don´t think it can. like the Leopard 2/A6 with 120mm cannon, it can´t. I think T-90 with 125 mm main gun will fit our needs. is there much difference between rifled and smoothbore in respect to speed and power?



125 russian and 120 mm west is comparable just use DU round / APFDS will slice chinese tank like butter
smoothbore cannon have more velocity than rifled

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## Nilgiri

I dont understand how tanks play any major role for Indonesia to begin with given its a chain of islands.

Isn't it more easy to target what will bring in/send out the tanks/ground assets from theatre to theatre?


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> The one that comes here with bullshit and rants is you. The more you talk, the more you show it.
> 
> Its time for you to get up to date on the latest news since as the Americans have already admitted from plenty of sources, the Russians got ahead of them on ECM, artillery, tanks, etc.
> 
> Wow, very impressive reasoning, your legacy Leopards are supposed to be better just because they use the same ammunition as the US marine corps. Brilliant again !!!!!
> 
> And I suppose your Leos will fare well againts top attack missiles?



sure we got pretty much confidence bcause our Leo is real and been there for the time being

unlike dreamful Vn cheerleader who counts the eggs before hatched

We got electro jamming unit


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> We got electro jamming unit



Wow, electro jamming unit !!! I'll pray to Allah for protection against your electro jamming unit and your legacy tanks.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> The one that comes here with bullshit and rants is you. The more you talk, the more you show it.
> 
> Its time for you to get up to date on the latest news since as the Americans have already admitted from plenty of sources, the Russians got ahead of them on ECM, artillery, tanks, etc.
> 
> Wow, very impressive reasoning, your legacy Leopards are supposed to be better just because they use the same ammunition as the US marine corps. Brilliant again !!!!!
> 
> And I suppose your Leos will fare well againts top attack missiles?





Nilgiri said:


> I dont understand how tanks play any major role for Indonesia to begin with given its a chain of islands.
> 
> Isn't it more easy to target what will bring in/send out the tanks/ground assets from theatre to theatre?



Looks at our currents acquisition we are emulating British expeditionary forces, so we had small number army unit but in good quality coupled with robust amphibious forces and escort naval unit



Carlosa said:


> Wow, electro jamming unit !!! I'll pray to Allah for protection against your electro jamming unit and your legacy tanks.



you want to playing religion bashing here

@waz @Hu Songshan


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Looks at our currents acquisition we are emulating British expeditionary forces, so we had small number army unit but in good quality coupled with robust amphibious forces and escort naval unit
> 
> 
> 
> you want to playing religion bashing here
> 
> @waz @Hu Songshan



Oh really? Why I can't pray to Allah? Do you have an exclusive on that? Since when praying is bashing?

Hiding beyond religion now?


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## Nike

BoQ77 said:


> You have apple, I have orange.
> Vietnam has electro jamming units too.
> ----
> By the way, I want to talk deeper on Vietnam military development.
> ----
> 1. Vietnam army established in 1945 from peasants who used to fight with sticks, swords,..
> and get their first firearms by catching from French legion soldiers.
> They were taught to save even a single bullet, There are stories about heroes who proceeded 1 shot multiple kills.
> Their ordnances or explosive get the gunpowders from mute bombs or artillery projectiles.
> Dien Bien Phu victory honored by blood of brave soldiers.
> The air defence units appear for the first time in Dien Bien Phu operation ( 1953-1954 )
> 
> 2. During 1960s and 1970s, Vietnam army was modernized, air force established.
> Surface to Air Missile units and Armor vehicles added.
> 
> And the tactic changed, from guerrilla to regular units, In Ia Drang battle 1965 the first time we saw a battalion-scale battle between US and North Vietnam. Vietnam adopts the approaching style of fighting to limit the damage from US aerial artillery and heavy artillery or bombing raids.
> 
> For offensive battles, North Vietnam deploys commando or sappers to penetrate the garrisons in secret and implant timing mines, ordnances ... to clear the most important and resistant layers. in advance. And retreat quick after made heavy damage to enemies.
> 
> In Northern, the air force and air defence units incl. AAA and radars, SAM harden by combats. And during Christmas bombing raids or 11 days operation in Dec 1972, US suffered the last but heaviest damage to their air squadrons
> 
> Air defence is among strongest in the region.
> The Navy is weak
> 
> 2. After Vietnam War, Vietnam has quite modern equipments both from Soviet, China and US left.
> the modern F-5E first flight is in 1972, but early in 1975, Vietnam could gift Soviet Union 1 in CBU, 1 in spare parts already.
> UH-1, A37, CH-47, M113, C130, M-107, M60, M48 ... fire arm, left bundles in Vietnam.
> Plus, big military aids from Soviet Union to support Vietnam against China in 1979 and afterward.
> 
> That make Vietnam a quite modern military at least 10 years after that.
> While Soviet get usage of Cam Ranh, Vietnam Navy is still weak.
> 
> 3. Vietnam get the first Su-22 in 1979 and they could still in usage until clashes happened in 1988 between China and Vietnam. Vietnam proceeded maritime operation training for Su-22 few months before the clash broken out.
> That's the only aircraft Vietnam could reach Spratly islands. They are older variant of Su-22 and quite obsolete, and in 1989 Vietnam get some more modern, used Su-22M4 from East Europe countries. They are still effective way to protect Vietnam Spratly since then until 10 years later.
> 
> 4. If we look at the GDP of Vietnam before and after 1990 AND the changes in comparative power in Spratly then we could understand the basic principles of Vietnam strategy and meaning of any purchase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In summary, Vietnam has very limit defence budget back to 1980s , early 1990s. And any purchase is only for confronting China at sea.
> 
> The first purchase of brand new, modern weapon made by Vietnam in 1995-1996 for Su-27, an altenative for Su-22 guarding Spratly islands, while China already buy Su-27 from Russia.
> ----
> to be continued




u got the points, my self never trying to make ruckus here. As both Id and Vn had a common interest to preserve the status quo in the region. Ur army deserve a much better attention


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## BoQ77

madokafc said:


> u got the points, my self never trying to make ruckus here. As both Id and Vn had a common interest to preserve the status quo in the region. Ur army deserve a much better attention



Based on what I know, the Radar, inland Air Defence units, ECM, ... of Vietnam is among the best in Southeast Asia.
There're Radar Academy, Missiles Academy, ... and we all know Vietnam tested the BM with minimum range 900km back to 1990s.

Vietnam radar capability isn't much worse than China counterpart, you know.
Adding S300PMU1 or SPYDER systemS isn't the frog jump but update the more modern weapon to existed inventory.
including modernized S-125 2-TM, semi automatic AAA, domestic MANPADS...

I'm satisfied with the development of Air Force and Air Defence.

Now, back to Navy, Vietnam started the modernization of Navy with domestic built BPS-500 late, in year 2000 without much success.
Plus, the existed weak Navy ( unlike Air Defence ), always in the await status. Some Tarantul-class missile boats delivered to Vietnam in 2000 has AShM with 80km of range only.

Current model :
Molniya class first 2 missile boats with KH-35 missiles delivered to Vietnam in 2007-2008, means less than 10 years until now. The localization of them only start few years ago, and still ongoing.
Gepard class of 2000 ton corvettes started even later, with all built in Russia.

Actually, Navy is still weak as Lady @madokafc said, compared to even regional Navy like Indonesia, Singapore...
I'm not satisfied with our Navy too.

But the big surprise is the* contract of 6 Kilo-class subs deal in 2009*. That's really a frog jump in developing our fleet. The deal buy times for Vietnam to build forces ( Air, Coastal, Surface ) to protect Spratly.

As Sir @gambit said that deal put the uncertain things to formula.

Vietnam isn't used to buy expensive weapons. They only do that on certain purposes.
Vietnam keep making big surprises, not because of big weapon contracts.

EXTRA systems aren't expensive. While we may think Vietnam would buy a lot of surface ships, or several squadron of US made aircrafts ... Vietnam buy some cheap Short Range Artillery units ( which total cost even less than a corvette ) from Israel only. But they are still more deadly than any other surface ships.

The PRECISION they are, the LOCATION they put to ... ; scrapped several hundred billion dollars of the big claimant, in attempt to make an advantage in Spratly with Air or Sea force

-----
>>> I believe that, as their ancestors, nowaday Vietnamese could always find a way to defeat their thousand years long of enemy's invasions, while they are always the much smaller in power anytime.

That's why I appreciate even the post refered to our three time victories over Mongol empire long time ago. The mindset of the weak one want to defeat the strong one; of little David want to defend against the giant Goliath, is workable in Vietnam.

That's the most dangerous weapon, I could ever figure out.

Right thing, right place, with high precision level 




BUT all of those doesn't work if you don't dare to raise your head up.

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## Viet

no latest picture of new tanks yet, but this one is real. Anti aircraft guns position at Tien Sa, Danang city.

@Carlosa

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> And its very funny, she always follows the same style; when she gets angry, she trows everything at you, then, when she calms down, she pretends that she is a good girl and can't say such things, but too late.



I beg you to let her freely express any thinking from her mind.
We would want to make dialogue to make clear everything. 

I sometimes make wrong conclusion because lack of information.
Let persuade her that you 're right to change her mind, if she doesn't change make your argument with more persuasiveness.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> The problem is, she never changes her mind, she keeps repeating the same line over and over.
> To express her thinking is one thing, to keep bashing us is another thing, we don't have to take that.
> 
> And furthermore, when we go into other's country thread, the minimum that we are supposed to have is some sensitivity and diplomacy towards them. As we can all see, that's something that she doesn't have, so again, we don't have to take that.



You have your reasons, but I feel more comfortable when someone tried his best to explain things to me. I want to see @madokafc or any visitor feel comfortable here.
It's just my weakness.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> You have your reasons, but I feel more comfortable when someone tried his best to explain things to me. I want to see @madokafc or any visitor feel comfortable here.
> It's just my weakness.



Sure, you need to do as you feel you should do and is the same for me and others here.

She always has a right to feel comfortable coming here as long as she *DOES NOT MAKES US FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE*.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> And its very funny, she always follows the same style; when she gets angry, she trows everything at you, then, when she calms down, she pretends that she is a good girl and can't say such things, but too late.


she is probably upset because he country´s army is virtually unknown to the world, while every schoolboy and girl in europe and america know about Vietnam 

a new hospital on Song Tu Tay island (Spratlys)

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## Viet

a leap forward. model of a new drone UAV4

length 3m420, weight 50kg, weight with loads 120kg, top speed 250 kmh, cruising speed 150 kmh, range 300 km, theoretically can reach max range 600 km, top ceiling 4,000 m, camera, X/L/UHF radar bands; INS/GPS guidance system, can carry weapon onboard functiong as armed cruise missile.

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## BoQ77

This one is aerial target. 
So Vietnam exercised to shoot down cruise missiles.



Viet said:


> a leap forward. model of a new drone UAV4
> 
> top speed 250 kmh, cruising speed 150 kmh, range 300 km, theoretically can reach max range 600 km, top ceiling 4,000 m, camera, X/L/UHF radar bands; INS/GPS guidance system, can carry weapon onboard functiong as armed cruise missile.


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## Viet

for the first time ever, a heli Mi-171E flies from the mainland to the spratlys and return, 8 hours trip one way, a 2,000 km long distance together, transporting ambulant patients to the mainland.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> This one is aerial target.
> So Vietnam exercised to shoot down cruise missiles.


As target for our artillery and missile corps, or if filled by explosive as flying bomb.


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## Aqsuperman

Some news for the Ground Force. A cheap solution for enhancing the long range engagement of our Armored Corps.


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Some news for the Ground Force. A cheap solution for enhancing the long range engagement of our Armored Corps.



I will add for those that don't know, that the pictures show a laser rangefinder in a PT-76 light tank.



Farhan Bohra said:


> But I can tell you one thing, Vietnam have the agreements with Japan and India for intelligence sharing program.



And I would not be surprise at all if in a case of conflict, Vietnam gets real time GPS targeting data from USA.

----------------------------------------

Talking about ISR, this is what a chinese newspaper has to say about Japan's cooperation with VN for military purposes (bad translation):

*Japan makes satellites with long range strike capability for Vietnam*

Japan-made satellites will significantly enhance the long-range strike capability of Vietnam

Collusion of Japan and Vietnam against China
newspaper Zhuangao Guang-Wen Chen

According to “Le Monde” (microblogging) it has been reported that according to “Japan Commercial Daily“ recently reported that the Japanese government plans to launch in 2017 two Earth observation satellites for Vietnam, after consideration, the Vietnamese government has decided to award the contract for the satellite project to Japanese companies. To this end, the Japanese government decided to provide to the project the amount of about 500 billion yen (about 4.2 billion yuan) of ODA (official development assistance) loans. After Vietnam received this two satellites, it will have timely reconnaissance capabilities of its neighboring countries, especially sensitive areas of the South China Sea.

*Cutting-edge satellites of “extraordinary capability”*
We learned that the Japanese government in late October reached a consensus with the Vietnamese Government, to build and launch for Vietnam two advanced observation of the Earth satellites. Prior to this, Congress will be reluctant to give assistance for fear of being diverted for military purposes, so Japan has never provided satellite to other countries under the field of ODA assistance. ODA is mainly used to solve the problem of poverty in developing countries, it is rare for space development projects.

Japan, although having great economic development, but resource-poor, it attaches great importance to the development and application of satellite resources. Meanwhile, Japan’s international competitive bidding in the satellite behind the U.S. and Europe, which hopes to sell the satellite to Vietnam the opportunity to catch up, but also intends to strengthen relations with Vietnam. Based on the data, Japan has successively developed and launched a more advanced ocean observing satellites, such as containing the synthetic aperture radar, “the Japanese Earth Resources Satellite,” Advanced Earth Observing Satellite and other uses of satellites and from the mid-1990s started to develop a new Earth Resources Satellite – “Advanced Land Observing Satellite”, presumably, for Vietnam, Japan is about to sell, is a simplified version of the satellite.

“Advanced Land Observing Satellite” is a new generation of Japanese land observation technology satellite, weighing 4 tons, *is the world’s largest class of Earth observation satellites*. The satellite design has a life of at least five years, cost about $ 50 million. This satellite has three-axis attitude control, by the star sensor attitude determination and inertial reference unit, the use of dual-frequency GPS receiver carrier-measuring position, attitude orbit control system can not only complete high-precision satellite positioning and attitude adjustment, but also provide positioning and to determine the attitude information to meet the draw and update a map to get geographic information needs.

This satellite also features today’s most advanced data compression technology and multi-processing technology, you can always put the data obtained by the compression and multi- processing and then sent to ground stations. The satellite carries three high-performance remote sensors, remote sensors including full-color three-dimensional mapping can be three-dimensional observation, photography, access to high-precision surface information, on the surface at resolutions up to 2.5 meters for digital elevation mapping, can be about topography, geology and plant analysis and other information in real time and accurate observations of terrestrial and coastal areas; the most critical phased array L-band synthetic aperture radar weather, when the day-to-ground observation, effectively resource exploration and disaster observation.

In order to take full advantage of its sensors and the data obtained, the satellite also has a large number of data processing capabilities, and a high-precision position and attitude determination subsystem. They can complete the mapping, regional observation, disaster monitoring and resource surveying and many other earth work, can provide high resolution images and three-dimensional surface mapping, and its detection capability integrated with the world advanced level. Because of the dual-use and the nature of the Earth observation satellite, the above functions are for the military,

You can get high-precision images of the desired area and of the distribution of personnel and equipment to mobilize information, which the Vietnamese military can use for control of the South China Sea providing a comprehensive and effective means of information to deal with China.

Vietnam started very early on to develop their own satellite program, but due to the weak economic strength and technological reasons, can only invest in the development plan abroad, and in the beginning started with communications satellites. Since 1995, with the final approval of the project for the satellite launch, the Vietnamese government after a 13 years long preparation. At 5:16 on April 19, 2008, Vietnam’s first satellite VINASAT-1 was launched by the European Ariane rocket from Kourou, French Guiana Space Launch Center. Fengyun communications satellite was successfully launched, so Vietnam achieved “air sovereignty.”

Once active in the development of communications satellites, the Vietnamese did not forget to develop their own military reconnaissance satellites, which have to rely on foreign technical support at first. Vietnam decided to obtain foreign technology to launch earth observation satellites with the express intention to support its policies in the South China Sea in addition to its own needs for civilian earth observation.

Eventually, the Japanese got their wish to obtain the project. Under the contract, Nippon Electric Co., Ltd. is responsible for Vietnam to build its first reconnaissance satellite that will be launched in 2017 in Kagoshima Prefecture at Tanegashima Space Center launch.

Since then, the company will be responsible for monitoring the production of the second satellite, and the plans to launch it in 2020. In the civil context, the two satellites will have all-weather ability for surveying the forest and agricultural crops; in military terms, they will provide for the Vietnamese armed forces real-time weather reconnaissance capabilities, specifically, is that we can detect the Chinese navy in the South China Sea, deployment of troops and naval vessels and the numbers and specific models. Vietnamese government hopes to achieve this capability through this satellite system and observed at least once a day, the area of the South China Sea, especially around military installations, including the Chinese navy with timely detection of data.

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## Viet

*Vietnam first ever worldwide satellite service communication*


a bit update on vinaphone S, Vietnam satellite communication. not only good for civil but also for (encrypted) military communications. Domestic company VNPT VinaPhone partners with Thuraya Telecommunications (Dubai), using Thuraya satellites. as for end user devices, in the first stage, Thuraya offers cost effective XT-Lite handsets and maritime communication device SF2500.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> As target for our artillery and missile corps, or if filled by explosive as flying bomb.



@Viet @Silent Knight @Farhan Bohra @Aqsuperman @xiao qi etc

I just cleaned the translation of the article about the Japanese satellites for Vietnam, so you might want to read it again.

Those satellites will provide a great ISR capability, really nice.



Viet said:


> *Vietnam first ever worldwide satellite service communication*
> 
> 
> a bit update on vinaphone S, Vietnam satellite communication. not only good for civil but also for (encrypted) military communications. Domestic company VNPT VinaPhone partners with Thuraya Telecommunications (Dubai), using Thuraya satellites. as for end user devices, in the first stage, Thuraya offers cost effective XT-Lite handsets and maritime communication device SF2500.



With the satellites coming online over the next few years, the main hardware needed for a good ISR network is the C-295 AWACS. @Silent Knight any idea when that may come?

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## Silent Knight

In case you don't know, the VINASAT-1 has been a part of the C4ISR we're building.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> But I can tell you one thing, Vietnam have the agreements with Japan and India for *intelligence sharing program*.


nice!

hopefully we see the signing Vietnam-India agreement of establishing a satelitte ground station at the upcoming visit to Vietnam

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> In case you don't know, the VINASAT-1 has been a part of the C4ISR we're building.



Yes, I know, for military communications, but my question was for the C-295 AWACS.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet @Silent Knight @Farhan Bohra @Aqsuperman @xiao qi etc
> 
> I just cleaned the translation of the article about the Japanese satellites for Vietnam, so you might want to read it again.
> 
> Those satellites will provide a great ISR capability, really nice.
> 
> 
> 
> With the satellites coming online over the next few years, the main hardware needed for a good ISR network is the C-295 AWACS. @Silent Knight any idea when that may come?


I think they are talking about NEC X-band radar satellites, with optical sensors capable of resolving images smaller than 0.5 m across. Launch scheduled for 2017 and 2020. the $1.2 billion deal includes the Japan made first satellite, setting up production facility for the second satellite, training and ground control station in Vietnam. that is ASNARO sat — Advanced Satellite with New System Architecture for Observation. suitable as spy satellites.

http://spacenews.com/japan-vietnam-sign-deal-two-radar-imaging-satellites/

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think they are talking about NEC X-band radar satellites, with optical sensors capable of resolving images smaller than 0.5 m across. Launch scheduled for 2017 and 2020. the $1.2 billion deal includes the Japan made first satellite, setting up production facility for the second satellite, training and ground control station in Vietnam. that is ASNARO sat — Advanced Satellite with New System Architecture for Observation. suitable as spy satellites.
> 
> http://spacenews.com/japan-vietnam-sign-deal-two-radar-imaging-satellites/



Yes, that's the one. Being able to produce such satellite is a great capability. That's a $1.2 billion very well spent.

Some clowns mock that Vietnam doesn't give enough priority to the army and they ignore all the money that Vietnam is spending to build all these other capabilities which are actually more important than the ground army.

These clowns pretend to know better than the Vietnamese military what the priorities ought to be.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's the one. Being able to produce such satellite is a great capability. That's a $1.2 billion very well spent.
> 
> Some clowns mock that Vietnam doesn't give enough priority to the army and they ignore all the money that Vietnam is spending to build all these other capabilities which are actually more important than the ground army.
> 
> These clowns pretend to know better than the Vietnamese military what the priorities ought to be.


$1.2 bn isnt high? Actually too much high. They are robbing. 

Why Vietnam never contacted IAI for TecSar?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, that's the one. Being able to produce such satellite is a great capability. That's a $1.2 billion very well spent.
> 
> Some clowns mock that Vietnam doesn't give enough priority to the army and they ignore all the money that Vietnam is spending to build all these other capabilities which are actually more important than the ground army.
> 
> These clowns pretend to know better than the Vietnamese military what the priorities ought to be.


Ah you know I care little about those that constantly talk down other people's achievements but highlighting other minor things. Narrow mindset. 

Anyway Yes the money is well spent, I believe too. $1.2 billions are not a little sum. The big plus is we get access to Japanese satellite technology, enabling us later to produce Vietnam made X-band satelittes

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## waz

waz said:


> Viet kong is banned term, please do not use it.
> 
> Dear posters please discuss defence e.g. new purchases and post media. *This thread is not for debating. *



@madokafc did you read this post before you started debating on here? Had you been someone else my response would have been harsher. Now, please do not post on here again, unless it is a simple discussion on hardware or putting up media. I remembered being tagged by many Indonesian members when Chinese posters raided the Indonesian thread, and i acted fast. So please show respect to this thread.

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## Carlosa

waz said:


> @madokafc did you read this post before you started debating on here? Had you been someone else my response would have been harsher. Now, please do not post on here again, unless it is a simple discussion on hardware or putting up media. I remembered being tagged by many Indonesian members when Chinese posters raided the Indonesian thread, and i acted fast. So please show respect to this thread.



Thank you sir !!!!! Did I tell you that you are my favourite moderator?

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## waz

Carlosa said:


> Thank you sir !!!!! Did I tell you that you are my favourite moderator?



Thanks bro. You know, I generally love all the Asian countries, especially South East Asia, it's culture, people and scenery is very beautiful, and I've travelled extensively there. I find it difficult at times to see the fighting that goes on between Asian people, ok granted it's not as bad as the Middle East thread, but it would be nice if everyone just got along.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ah you know I care little about those that constantly talk down other people's achievements but highlighting other minor things. Narrow mindset.
> 
> Anyway Yes the money is well spent, I believe too. $1.2 billions are not a little sum. The big plus is we get access to Japanese satellite technology, enabling us later to produce Vietnam made X-band satelittes



Well, actually, after reading the article from your link, I see that the 1.2 billion includes many other civilian projects that are part of the ODA package including the building of a port, etc, but hell yes, its money well spent no matter how much it is.

Between those satellites as well as others already done as well as planned and the Indian satellite covering the SCS that Vietnam has full access to it including pointing it to whatever it wishes, a great capability will be deployed.

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## Blue Marlin

Nilgiri said:


> Yes I will keep it in mind hehe. Always wanted to visit Vietnam thoroughly in a road trip....I absolutely love pho!
> 
> Is French still spoken a lot? Because I speak fluent French.


you got a great offer there.... dont screw it up........

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## Carlosa

waz said:


> Thanks bro. You know, I generally love all the Asian countries, especially South East Asia, it's culture, people and scenery is very beautiful, and I've travelled extensively there. I find it difficult at times to see the fighting that goes on between Asian people, ok granted it's not as bad as the Middle East thread, but it would be nice if everyone just got along.



To be fair, other that sis Mado, we really get along well with the Indonesian people, we don't mess with them, they don't mess with us, when we go there or they come here is usually cordial, but there is always a black sheep that has to have that deep sense of cheap nationalism and the need to be competitive. Its really a shame.

Not much issues either with the other ASEAN countries, just a minot thing here and there, people are people after all, some have political agendas, some have grudges, but not bad overall.

Our real fights are with the chinese.

Again, thank you. You are the only moderator in this section that actually takes care of business. 



Farhan Bohra said:


> $1.2 bn isnt high? Actually too much high. They are robbing.
> 
> Why Vietnam never contacted IAI for TecSar?



Its actually about $50 million per satellite, there are many other unrelated things in that ODA package.

But I don't want you to feel left out man, feel free to tell GOI to give us the Agni 4 TOT, we'll take it.



Blue Marlin said:


> you got a great offer there.... dont screw it up........



No kidding, actually, I just discovered yesterday, after looking at her profile, that @xiao qi is actually a girl. I didn't know that. I'm sure she has many cute friends.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> I am for our army conducting exercises with other countries, collecting experience promoting friendship with other armies. With America, Japan, Korea and Australia armed forces. as far as I know, the *US Marine Corps* *wants to do it on land and sea with Vietnam,* but there are still too much sensibilities in Vietnam hindering such exercises to happen. My bet is, if the Chinese continue advancing their arrogance and aggression in the region, conducting regular exercises, including inviting Russia navy to the drills, bullying our fishermen, the day will come such domestic sensibilities will disappear.


I don't think Vietnam should do that, We view Us as a counterpart, not our ally to against any nation. Hoping for Chinese's government doesn't become silly to force Vietnam on US's side. We want to make friends not want a war.


> Viet Nam’s policy of national defence is for self-defence and peace; Viet Nam does not ally in military to any other country and does not allow any foreign country to open and operate military base in the territory of Viet Nam; Viet Nam is not working with any country against any other country.





Carlosa said:


> No kidding, actually, I just discovered yesterday, after looking at her profile, that @xiao qi is actually a girl. I didn't know that. I'm sure she has many cute friends.


Yup, i have many cute friends

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## Blue Marlin

Carlosa said:


> To be fair, other that sis Mado, we really get along well with the Indonesian people, we don't mess with them, they don't mess with us, when we go there or they come here is usually cordial, but there is always a black sheep that has to have that deep sense of cheap nationalism and the need to be competitive. Its really a shame.
> 
> Not much issues either with the other ASEAN countries, just a minot thing here and there, people are people after all, some have political agendas, some have grudges, but not bad overall.
> 
> Our real fights are with the chinese.
> 
> Again, thank you. You are the only moderator in this section that actually takes care of business.
> 
> 
> 
> Its actually about $50 million per satellite, there are many other unrelated things in that ODA package.
> 
> But I don't want you to feel left out man, feel free to tell GOI to give us the Agni 4 TOT, we'll take it.
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding, actually, I just discovered yesterday, after looking at her profile, that @xiao qi is actually a girl. I didn't know that. I'm sure she has many cute friends.


shes a bit young for me

i went out with a chinese girl once...... we split because she was moving back to china and intended on not comming back due to family issues.
i have not been to vietnam honestly. a freind of mine has been and he loved it. i prefer china as i know a bit of chinese and it helps a lot. and i find stuff is cheaper if you speak chinese instead of english. i would probably go to vietnam in about 3 years. i was supposed to go to israel this year but couldn't. so i went to the lake district instead.

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## Carlosa

Blue Marlin said:


> shes a bit young for me
> 
> i went out with a chinese girl once...... we split because she was moving back to china and intended on not comming back due to family issues.
> i have not been to vietnam honestly. a freind of mine has been and he loved it. i prefer china as i know a bit of chinese and it helps a lot. and i find stuff is cheaper if you speak chinese instead of english. i would probably go to vietnam in about 3 years. i was supposed to go to israel this year but couldn't. so i went to the lake district instead.



Well, everybody has their own preferences and taste, I know both, Vietnam and China pretty well, I've been going to China multiple times a year for the last 15 years, actually I just came from there a few days ago. Can find the right person in either country, chinese women are definitely a lot better than the men, but Viet women are a lot friendlier in my experience, chinese are a bit too serious and too business like. Vietnamese like to enjoy life a lot more. A good Vietnamese girl can be a treasure. That's just my take. If you can, try to make it to Vietnam, its a good experience.

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## waz

xiao qi said:


> I don't think Vietnam should do that, We view Us as a counterpart, not our ally to against any nation. Hoping for Chinese's government doesn't become silly to force Vietnam on US's side. We want to make friends not want a war. Yup, i have many cute friends



You're a lady, wow, I thought you were a guy, but then again it is a military forum, hence most our posters are male. How did you come to know of this place? Are you doing a degree in political affairs or something?

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> I don't think Vietnam should do that, We view Us as a counterpart, not our ally to against any nation. Hoping for Chinese's government doesn't become silly to force Vietnam on US's side. We want to make friends not want a war.


do you know why Vietnam under the later Le dynasty experienced the longest peace period in our history, more than 300 years? answer: because we had been able to maintain to strike a military balance to China. the classical game "balance of power".

without having a military edge over China, do you think the Chinese would let Vietnam in peace, letting us to develop our economy? I wish the Chinese are our friends, our good neighbour, but the reality speaks another language.

I see the time will come when we can´t alone maintain the edge, having a military deterrence, neither visible nor creditable. because the gap between Vietnam and China is huge. one should never mix up between braveness and stupidity. just now, China announces live-fire exercise in the Gulf of Tonkin. just again one of the many exercises this year. and more are coming. the question will come weather or not a policy change is required, and when. hopefully not too late. Going to war is always costly for us. the last thing on earth we want. so the challenge lies in the ability to keep a military deterrence, avoiding physical confrontation. Keep a policy that is not working will lead us to nowhere.

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/china-stages-live-firing-drills-in-tonkin-gulf-amid-tensions

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> I don't think Vietnam should do that, We view Us as a counterpart, not our ally to against any nation. Hoping for Chinese's government doesn't become silly to force Vietnam on US's side. We want to make friends not want a war.
> 
> 
> Yup, i have many cute friends



Very wise position, I just hope our chinese friends will not push Vietnam too much, but I will not hold my breath.


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## Silent Knight

Another pair of Molniya missile boats (codename M5 and M6) is ready to be commissioned

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## Carlosa

@Viet etc

Its nice to have a girl in the thread, specially a nice girl with moderate positions.

What a difference with the other sis.........



Silent Knight said:


> Another pair of Molniya missile boats (codename M5 and M6) is ready to be commissioned



Bravo , that's the end of the program. Looking forward to a more powerful version.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet etc
> 
> Its nice to have a girl in the thread, specially a nice girl with moderate positions.
> 
> What a difference with the other sis.........
> 
> 
> 
> Bravo , that's the end of the program. Looking forward to a more powerful version.


aha interesting. we have a girl here. @xiao qi I wonder if it means anything?



Silent Knight said:


> Another pair of Molniya missile boats (codename M5 and M6) is ready to be commissioned


nice. if I recalled you confirmed 4 more Molynia´s are ordered. any info when they will come and what cruise missiles? Kalibr or Yakhont?

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> To be fair, other that sis Mado, we really get along well with the Indonesian people, we don't mess with them, they don't mess with us, when we go there or they come here is usually cordial, but there is always a black sheep that has to have that deep sense of cheap nationalism and the need to be competitive. Its really a shame.
> 
> Not much issues either with the other ASEAN countries, just a minot thing here and there, people are people after all, some have political agendas, some have grudges, but not bad overall.
> 
> Our real fights are with the chinese.
> 
> Again, thank you. You are the only moderator in this section that actually takes care of business.
> 
> 
> 
> Its actually about $50 million per satellite, there are many other unrelated things in that ODA package.
> 
> But I don't want you to feel left out man, feel free to tell GOI to give us the Agni 4 TOT, we'll take it.
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding, actually, I just discovered yesterday, after looking at her profile, that @xiao qi is actually a girl. I didn't know that. I'm sure she has many cute friends.


Lol, I am not feeling left out at all. 

But $1.2 bn for X-Band SAR sat is really huge.

The TecSar that build by IAI, by Israeli Aerospace ,,,, is around $130 million.

The cost of C-Band RISAT-1 was around $60 million. I don't know how cost reaching $1.2 billion, one can buy a whole high tech destroyer in $1.2 bn.

About A4, no one transfer technologies of MRBM, especially of Re-entry vehicle. No one. Maybe of SRBM. But not of MRBM or ICBM.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Lol, I am not feeling left out at all.
> 
> But $1.2 bn for X-Band SAR sat is really huge.
> 
> The TecSar that build by IAI, Israeli Aerospace is around $130 million.
> 
> The cost of C-Band RISAT-1 was around $60 million. I don't know how cost reaching $1.2 billion, one can buy a whole high tech destroyer in $1.2 bn..



Like I said, the cost is about $50 million per satellite. The 1.2 billion is for a whole ODA package that includes building a port and other things, so the price is quite ok.



Farhan Bohra said:


> About A4, no one transfer technologies of MRBM, especially of Re-entry vehicle. No one. Maybe of SRBM. But not of MRBM or ICBM.



Ok, I'll settle for SRBM TOT. I was just joking.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> nice. if I recalled you confirmed 4 more Molynia´s are ordered. any info when they will come and what cruise missiles? Kalibr or Yakhont?


The missile has been chosen, but I will keep my mouth shut, otherwise the Department of Green Tea would be eager to have a chat with me 

The only obstacle is funding which will be decided in a very short time.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Ok, I'll settle for SRBM TOT. I was just joking.



Lol I was too. 

For some gossip news of Xi Ping Pong. 
http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...o-deploy-brahmos-missile-in-northeast/355042/

BTW, BrahMos Block 3 deployed in NE since 2013, I dont know why sudden outburst against BrahMos. I think Ping Pong also got a hint of BrahMos export to Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Lol I was too.
> 
> For some gossip news of Xi Ping Pong.
> http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...o-deploy-brahmos-missile-in-northeast/355042/
> 
> BTW, BrahMos Block 3 deployed in NE since 2013, I dont know why sudden outburst against BrahMos. I think Ping Pong also got a hint of BrahMos export to Vietnam.



Let Xi Ping Pong sweat. The Viet-India alliance will only grow stronger. 



Silent Knight said:


> The missile has been chosen, but I will keep my mouth shut, otherwise the Department of Green Tea would be eager to have a chat with me
> 
> The only obstacle is funding which will be decided in a very short time.



Will those ships have a better air defense system?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Will those ships have a better air defense system?


No, unlikely to be. It's considered to be an upgrade in offensive capability, other systems would remain the same.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> No, unlikely to be. It's considered to be an upgrade in offensive capability, other systems would remain the same.



Ok, those ships are very vulnerable once detected.



Silent Knight said:


> No, unlikely to be. It's considered to be an upgrade in offensive capability, other systems would remain the same.



Any idea how many missiles will they carry?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Ok, those ships are very vulnerable once detected.
> Any idea how many missiles will they carry?


They're designed for hit-and-run tactic from stand-off range and don't operate independently at all.

Look at them as missile-carrying platforms, instead of individual combat ships, and you will see.

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## BoQ77

I believe Vietnam Navy doubled the range of their AShM, this applied to coastal defence as well

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I believe Vietnam Navy doubled the range of their AShM, this applied to coastal defence as well



Now that Vietnam is making AShMs under license, it should not be too difficult to develop a version with much more range.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Now that Vietnam is making AShMs under license, it should not be too difficult to develop a version with much more range.



They said the new missiles are Klub.
So it's logical as they put them on Molniya at angle.
I guess there're 4 missiles on new Molniya

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> They said the new missiles are Klub.
> So it's logical as they put them on Molniya at angle.
> I guess there're 4 missiles on Molniya



4 missiles is too little, there are other small ships like that carrying 4 on each side in a quad launcher.

Klub is the best choice.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> 4 missiles is too little, there are other small ships like that carrying 4 on each side in a quad launcher.
> 
> Klub is the best choice.



If you think Molniya could accommodate 1x40FT container each side






While at this moment, Molniya is naval Bal-E

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ok, those ships are very vulnerable once detected.
> 
> Any idea how many missiles will they carry?


I think the role of Molynia is to fire missile salvo to sink after our submarines or frigates or Su-30 bombers have disabled air defense shield of enemy destroyers and frigates. Once the missiles are fired, the Molynia will run away from the scene as fast as it can.

Molynia can carry 8 Kalibr and 8 Kh-35, so 16 missiles, I guess. As many as it carries today. The ship may have to be modified a bit to strengthen the superstructure. Or lengthened.

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## Silent Knight

8-12 missiles per boat is more than enough. We're talking about supersonic heavy missiles, not the smaller 3M24UE/KCT-15

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## BoQ77

Put them to old Tarantul-I or TT-400TP
4 missiles / each

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## Silent Knight

Well, a live-firing exercise by a Vietnamese mechanized infantry battalion. No HD footage of division and/or combined arms exercises yet, as the Armed Forces rarely releases those footage.

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## Viet

News of the day

Russia submarine rescue ship _Igor Belousov _just completed a visit to the Camranh bay. length 98m, weight 5,000 tons, 98 crew men. The news is especially interesting because it hints to 

- Russia submarines operating in the South China Sea.

- Vietnam interest of cooperation with Russia in the field of submarine rescue operation, in addition to our cooperation with Singapore.

- our interest of acquiring a submarine rescue vessel.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> If you think Molniya could accommodate 1x40FT container each side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While at this moment, Molniya is naval Bal-E



This is what I'm talking about:





4 Brahmos on each side





4 Yakhont on each side





6 Yakhont on each side

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> This is what I'm talking about:
> 
> View attachment 328437
> 
> 6 Yakhont on each side


I think that would be the configuration. 12 Yakhont or Kalibr. Best with both variants antiship missile and land attack missile. As both missile types are expensive and mighty, we probably need only 8. as silent knight points out. More is overkill.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think that would be the configuration. 12 Yakhont or Kalibr. Best with both variants antiship missile and land attack missile. As both missile types are expensive and mighty, we probably need only 8. as silent knight points out. More is overkill.



I also think that 8 is good, but 4 is too little.


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## Viet

Vietnam made 73mm armor piercing shell for BMP-1 amphibious tank

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## Viet

a glimpse on Vietnam military complex

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## Viet



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## Viet

S-300 long range surface-to-air missile system is protected by air defence shield. one member of the shield is Strela-10M. Instead of sending the vehicles to Russia or employing Russian experts, the short-range surface-to-air missile system is going through a modernization program, carried out by domestic military companies.

Saving money.

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## Silent Knight

* Strela-10M3


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> * Strela-10M3



The latest version is the Strela-10M4, it works at night, the target acquisition has been automated.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> The latest version is the Strela-10M4, it works at night, the target acquisition has been automated.


Not sure if our Strela-10s have been upgraded to M4 standard or not, but M3 is definitely sure.

And, 3 out of several Sukhoi test pilots in Vietnam to train highly difficult flying techniques  I guess you guys and gals can recognize them.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Not sure if our Strela-10s have been upgraded to M4 standard or not, but M3 is definitely sure.
> 
> And, 3 out of several Sukhoi test pilots in Vietnam to train highly difficult flying techniques  I guess you guys and gals can recognize them.



But of course, they are Yuri Vashchuk (Sasha), Sergey Bogdan (Sergey Old) and Sergey Chernyshev (Sergey Young).

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> But of course, they are Yuri Vashchuk (Sasha), Sergey Bogdan (Sergey Old) and Sergey Chernyshev (Sergey Young).


Man, you read that first on ComCom, didn't you?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> But of course, they are Yuri Vashchuk (Sasha), Sergey Bogdan (Sergey Old) and Sergey Chernyshev (Sergey Young).





Silent Knight said:


> * Strela-10M3


aha I previously looked for details what the modernization includes but found none. good receiving for info.


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## Viet

*Vietnam seeks French support for 'maritime freedom'*



Published: 24/08/2016 at 09:45 PM
Writer: AFP

HANOI - France and other countries should help to keep the peace in the disputed South China Sea, Vietnam's president told AFP Wednesday, as unease grows over China's increasingly muscular approach in the key waterway.






Vietnamese president Tran Dai Quang speaks during an interview with AFP at the presidential palace in Hanoi on August 24, 2016


China claims most of the sea where it has built up reefs capable of hosting military equipment, sparking ire from competing claimants, including Vietnam, and raising fears of potential armed conflict.


*French President visits Vietnam*

Speaking to AFP ahead of a visit by French leader Francois Hollande next month, Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang said he hopes France and others will help to diffuse regional tensions in the waterway, which it calls the East Sea.

"We highly welcome the cooperation from France and other nations in the process of maintaining peace and stability in the region and the world and on the East Sea," he said, speaking from the presidential palace, the former residence of the Indochina governor during French colonial rule.

Hanoi and Beijing have traded diplomatic barbs over disputed island chains and waters in the South China Sea and in 2014 China moved a controversial oil rig into contested territory, prompting riots in Vietnam.

The strategic waterway, also claimed by the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan, is rich in energy reserves, fishery resources and is a busy shipping route.

Quang's comments come after French Defence minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said in June he would ask European countries to conduct coordinated patrols in the South China Sea.

France and the United States have sent naval ships to the sea in recent months and have vowed to send more, angering Beijing.

The Vietnamese president, whose role is mostly ceremonial, said Hollande's visit would help to boost military ties between the former colonial foes, as Hanoi has rapidly increased its defence budget in the last decade.


"Several directions for cooperation will be strengthened and opened, like... ensuring security, safety and freedom of maritime and aviation," Quang said in a statement to AFP after the interview.


He added that Vietnam wants more unity in the regional 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean), which has failed to forge a unified front against Beijing's militarisation in the sea.

"We have been active together with countries in the Asean community to increase unity, considering this an important structure to contribute to maintaining regional peace," he said.

Last month Manila won its case against Beijing at a UN-backed tribunal in the Hague which rejected China's claims to most of the sea.

Beijing boycotted the hearing, and has refused to recognise the ruling, and Asean has sidestepped the issue, failing to comment directly on it at a meeting of ministers last month.

Diplomats say Beijing has deftly courted Laos and Cambodia to split the bloc and blunt unified criticism.

France and Vietnam signed a strategic partnership agreement in 2013, which included boosted defence cooperation.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Man, you read that first on ComCom, didn't you?



But of course.


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## Viet

*How to develop the Spratlys into a paradise for tourists?*

a news of 2 months that went down the radar a bit, I bring it up now. Vietnam Electricity (EVN) has completed surveying the entire Spratly Archipelago (understandably excluding the islands occupied by other nations) and is seeking the government’s approval to hook up all the islands into the national grid.

not only a huge technical challenge but a bit costly, laying 1,000 km plus long electrical cables from the mainland to all the islands and reefs in the Spratlys, providing stable electricity for human and machines living and operating far from Vietnam mainland. 24 hours a day. However if we look at the outcome, once it is done, the development of Spratlys will be sped up. I see artificial islands popping up, new beach towns for tourism in 5 years 

we would of course welcome all tourists to the future beach towns, excluding nobody 

an overview. the U.S. Military says Vietnam has established 34 outposts on 21 islands. In addition, 14 outposts are established on other features and reefs. in total *48 outposts*. An “outpost” may be as small as a watchtower or as big as island.


Southwest Cay (Vietnamese: _Song Tu Tay_),
South Reef (_Da Nam_),
Petley Reef (_Nui Thi_ or _Da Thi_),
Sand Cay (_Son Ca_),
Namyit Island (_Nam Yet_),
Discovery Great Reef (_Da Lon_),
Sin Cowe Island (_Sinh Ton_),
Collins Reef (_Co Lin_),
Lansdowne Reef (_Len Dao_),
Sin Cowe East Island (_Sinh Ton Dong_),
Ladd Reef (_Da Lat_),
Spratly Island (_Truong Sa_ or _Truong Sa Lon_),
West Reef (_Da Tay_),
Central Reef (_Truong Sa Dong_),
East Reef (_Da Dong_),
Pearson Reef (_Phan Vinh_),
Allison Reef (_Toc Tan_),
Cornwallis South Reef (_Nui Le_),
Pigeon or Tennent Reef (_Tien Nu_),
Barque Canada Reef (_Thuyen Chai_),
Amboyna Cay (_An Bang_).

Vietnam workers are seen constructing high voltage overhead power lines for electric power transmission at sea 






_ 

_
http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-plans-to-power-up-its-spratly-islands-3417092.html

http://thediplomat.com/2016/05/south-china-sea-who-claims-what-in-the-spratlys/

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *How to develop the Spratlys into a paradise for tourists?*
> 
> a news of 2 months that went down the radar a bit, I bring it up now. Vietnam Electricity (EVN) has completed surveying the entire Spratly Archipelago (understandably excluding the islands occupied by other nations) and is seeking the government’s approval to hook up all the islands into the national grid.
> 
> not only a huge technical challenge but a bit costly, laying 1,000 km plus long electrical cables from the mainland to all the islands and reefs in the Spratlys, providing stable electricity for human and machines living and operating far from Vietnam mainland. 24 hours a day. However if we look at the outcome, once it is done, the development of Spratlys will be sped up. I see artificial islands popping up, new beach towns for tourism in 5 years
> 
> we would of course welcome all tourists to the future beach towns, excluding nobody
> 
> an overview. the U.S. Military says Vietnam has established 34 outposts on 21 islands. In addition, 14 outposts are established on other features and reefs. in total *48 outposts*. An “outpost” may be as small as a watchtower or as big as island.
> 
> 
> Southwest Cay (Vietnamese: _Song Tu Tay_),
> South Reef (_Da Nam_),
> Petley Reef (_Nui Thi_ or _Da Thi_),
> Sand Cay (_Son Ca_),
> Namyit Island (_Nam Yet_),
> Discovery Great Reef (_Da Lon_),
> Sin Cowe Island (_Sinh Ton_),
> Collins Reef (_Co Lin_),
> Lansdowne Reef (_Len Dao_),
> Sin Cowe East Island (_Sinh Ton Dong_),
> Ladd Reef (_Da Lat_),
> Spratly Island (_Truong Sa_ or _Truong Sa Lon_),
> West Reef (_Da Tay_),
> Central Reef (_Truong Sa Dong_),
> East Reef (_Da Dong_),
> Pearson Reef (_Phan Vinh_),
> Allison Reef (_Toc Tan_),
> Cornwallis South Reef (_Nui Le_),
> Pigeon or Tennent Reef (_Tien Nu_),
> Barque Canada Reef (_Thuyen Chai_),
> Amboyna Cay (_An Bang_).
> 
> Vietnam workers are seen constructing high voltage overhead power lines for electric power transmission at sea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-plans-to-power-up-its-spratly-islands-3417092.html
> 
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/05/south-china-sea-who-claims-what-in-the-spratlys/



Good idea, but I'm sure that our northern friendly neighbor will make sure that those cables have "accidents", so I think its not practical.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Good idea, but I'm sure that our northern friendly neighbor will make sure that those cables have "accidents", so I think its not practical.


our friendly neighbour should think we do public goods, providing touristic infrastructures for 1.4 billion citizens. besides, Chinese should not think of such silly act. they know we will retaliate cutting their cables.


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## Viet

Paying a visit to *Singapore Naval Base Changi*. I really admire the people of Singapore. they have developed a no-man's-land without natural resources to one of the most richest and advanced economies on earth. It is not necessarily bad to copy one or two things from them. especially how to build-up the military. bad times ahead. Singapore is like some in the region midst of the largest military build-up since end of the cold war, with French frigates, german made submarines, panzers, US stealth fighter jets. Everyone prepares for a showdown.

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> S-300 long range surface-to-air missile system is protected by air defence shield. one member of the shield is Strela-10M. Instead of sending the vehicles to Russia or employing Russian experts, the short-range surface-to-air missile system is going through a modernization program, carried out by domestic military companies.
> 
> 
> Saving money.



on MT-LB..?


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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> on MT-LB..?


What told is upgrading acquisition radar and missile system, and many other I don't know. Maybe @Silent Knight and @Carlosa can tell more.


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## Carlosa

Aung Zaya said:


> on MT-LB..?



Yes, the Strela-10M3 is on the MT-LB APC vehicle.

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## BoQ77

Young Vietnamese officers visit Singapore’s naval units( hope they have rooms that big enough in Singapore )

PANO - Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 21:45 (GMT+7)
PANO - As part of the ongoing 4th Young Vietnam-Singapore officer exchange program, the Vietnamese delegation on August 16 visited the Changi Naval Base, the Singapore Navy Museum and other naval units.






_The Vietnamese delegation posing for a photo at the Changi Naval Base
_
At the Changi Naval Base, the delegation was briefed on the Navy of the Republic of Singapore (RSN) by Mr. Chew Kian Boon, the base’s head of the reception board. Accordingly, since its independence on August 9, 1965, although Singapore has had to import materials from other countries, the economy has still grown fast thanks to the development of seaports, shipbuilding industry and seaport services. To ensure its economic achievements, the country has invested significantly in modernizing its naval fleets. It has operated the most modern naval fleets in the region so far. The RSN has two bases, the big and the latest one named Changi and the small one named Tuas.

Also according to Mr. Boon, the RSN received the last of the six Formidable-class frigates in 2008. It has also operated four Challenger-class submarines and six Victory-class corvettes.

During a visit to the Singapore Navy Museum, the delegation of young Vietnamese officers learnt more about the formation and development of the RSN through a number of exhibits and a hi-tech data system.

Other places that the Vietnamese delegation called at were the Information Fusion Center, the Maritime Training and Doctrine Command, and Changi Regional HADR Coordination Center, which was set up in 2012 and has actively engaged in 91 humanitarian aid activities in the region and the rest of the world.

*Notably, the delegation contemplated one of the six Formidable-class frigates*

After the visits to different naval units of Singapore, Senior Lieutenant Nguyen Quoc Toan, an assistant in information processing and research of Center 47 of the Staff of the Vietnam People's Navy, showed his excitement about the meaningful visit to the RSN, the strongest component of the Singapore Armed Forces. He hoped that such a visit should be held for more young officers of the two countries to boost their ties and understanding.



Viet said:


> Paying a visit to *Singapore Naval Base Changi*. I really admire the people of Singapore. they have developed a no-man's-land without natural resources to one of the most richest and advanced economies on earth. It is not necessarily bad to copy one or two things from them. especially how to build-up the military. bad times ahead. Singapore is like some in the region midst of the largest military build-up since end of the cold war, with French frigates, german made submarines, panzers, US stealth fighter jets. Everyone prepares for a showdown.

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## Carlosa

Beautiful rainbow near the Vietnamese occupied Spratly islands





The canine guardian of the island

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## Viet

In an aircraft repair and maintenance facility for L-39 Albatros trainer aircraft.

In addition, the repair facility can handle models of fighter jet Su-27, helicopter Mi-8/17, transport aircraft An-26/An-2, DHC-6, Casa-212, -295. Next step would be capable to repair and maintain Su-30 bomber fleet.

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## Viet

Maintenance & Repair Su-27 fighter jet

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Young Vietnamese officers visit Singapore’s naval units( hope they have rooms that big enough in Singapore )
> 
> PANO - Wednesday, August 17, 2016, 21:45 (GMT+7)
> PANO - As part of the ongoing 4th Young Vietnam-Singapore officer exchange program, the Vietnamese delegation on August 16 visited the Changi Naval Base, the Singapore Navy Museum and other naval units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The Vietnamese delegation posing for a photo at the Changi Naval Base
> _
> At the Changi Naval Base, the delegation was briefed on the Navy of the Republic of Singapore (RSN) by Mr. Chew Kian Boon, the base’s head of the reception board. Accordingly, since its independence on August 9, 1965, although Singapore has had to import materials from other countries, the economy has still grown fast thanks to the development of seaports, shipbuilding industry and seaport services. To ensure its economic achievements, the country has invested significantly in modernizing its naval fleets. It has operated the most modern naval fleets in the region so far. The RSN has two bases, the big and the latest one named Changi and the small one named Tuas.
> 
> Also according to Mr. Boon, the RSN received the last of the six Formidable-class frigates in 2008. It has also operated four Challenger-class submarines and six Victory-class corvettes.
> 
> During a visit to the Singapore Navy Museum, the delegation of young Vietnamese officers learnt more about the formation and development of the RSN through a number of exhibits and a hi-tech data system.
> 
> Other places that the Vietnamese delegation called at were the Information Fusion Center, the Maritime Training and Doctrine Command, and Changi Regional HADR Coordination Center, which was set up in 2012 and has actively engaged in 91 humanitarian aid activities in the region and the rest of the world.
> 
> *Notably, the delegation contemplated one of the six Formidable-class frigates*
> 
> After the visits to different naval units of Singapore, Senior Lieutenant Nguyen Quoc Toan, an assistant in information processing and research of Center 47 of the Staff of the Vietnam People's Navy, showed his excitement about the meaningful visit to the RSN, the strongest component of the Singapore Armed Forces. He hoped that such a visit should be held for more young officers of the two countries to boost their ties and understanding.


I think we should ask the French for a squadron of Scorpene submarines, armed with torpedo and cruise missiles, build by our shipyard. India shows that it works, both technically and monetary. why should we not follow?

we soon greet both India and French government chiefs in Hanoi. so why not make a deal?

@Nilgiri
@Vergennes

Scorpene submarine

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> I think we should ask the French for a squadron of Scorpene submarines, armed with torpedo and cruise missiles, build by our shipyard. India shows that it works, both technically and monetary. why should we not follow?
> 
> we soon greet both India and French government chiefs in Hanoi. so why not make a deal?
> 
> @Nilgiri
> @Vergennes
> 
> Scorpene submarine



I think it would be an ideal choice my friend (a potent SSK)....given nature of SCS. How many do you think Vietnam should go for?

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## waz

CCP said:


> What kinds of Maintenance & Repair LOL.
> From your pics you should know viet not even capable to produce *paint* for those birds.
> 
> Prove me wrong..if you can.



Dear CCP, this thread isn't for debate and every member adheres to this. It can only be a discussion on the specifics of a weapon system, budget news and of course media.

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## CCP

waz said:


> Dear CCP, this thread isn't for debate and every member adheres to this. It can only be a discussion on the specifics of a weapon system, budget news and of course media.



Ok, I thought I am just sharing some information about vietnam air force.


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## Sasquatch

@CCP please do not derail this thread with trolling, if you do not have anything to contribute other then flame comments kindly refrain from posting or you will receive infractions.

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## CCP

Hu Songshan said:


> @CCP please do not derail this thread with trolling, if you do not have anything to contribute other then flame comments lkindly refrain from posting or you will receive infractions.



LOL, trolling?

What is your definition of trolling and What did I trolled here?


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## Sasquatch

CCP said:


> LOL, trolling?
> 
> What is your definition of trolling and What did I trolled here?



These kinds of posts are trolling and flame other members, they can derail the thread. Please adhere to what @waz mentioned.

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## CCP

Hu Songshan said:


> These kinds of posts are trolling and flame other members, they can derail the thread. Please adhere to what @waz mentioned.



Again, I am just shared some information, and the information is true! (or you can try to prove i am wrong on it.)


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## waz

CCP said:


> Again, I am just shared some information, and the information is true! (or you can try to prove i am wrong on it.)



Like I said before this thread is not for debate. Please let this be the last time we need to speak to you about this.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> I think it would be an ideal choice my friend (a potent SSK)....given nature of SCS. How many do you think Vietnam should go for?


We have 6 kilo. Adding 6 scorpene would bring the total number to 12. I think would be an ideal configuration. To get funding, we may be forced to reduce the number of new surface warships. Ideally we cooperate with you in construction, sharing experience in operating scorpene.

Kilo attack submarine

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## Silent Knight

Well, whatever he or she said about the Su-27 maintenance and overhaul capability, the Russians would like to disagree. Of course, you can only hear verbal and informal statement, not officially on media.

Prove me wrong... if you can.

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## Silent Knight

A L-39 jet trainer of the VPAF has crashed.

This is a single-pilot flight, so there was no instructor on board, only the pilot trainee. The aircraft suffered technical malfunction during the flight, the pilot requested to stay on aircraft to attempt emergency landing. Sadly, he was killed during the landing.

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## Nilgiri

Silent Knight said:


> A L-39 jet trainer of the VPAF has crashed.
> 
> This is a single-pilot flight, so there was no instructor on board, only the pilot trainee. The aircraft suffered technical malfunction during the flight, the pilot requested to stay on aircraft to attempt emergency landing. Sadly, he was killed during the landing.



Sad. RIP to the pilot.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> A L-39 jet trainer of the VPAF has crashed.
> 
> This is a single-pilot flight, so there was no instructor on board, only the pilot trainee. The aircraft suffered technical malfunction during the flight, the pilot requested to stay on aircraft to attempt emergency landing. Sadly, he was killed during the landing.



RIP to the pilot. Another example of heroism.

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## xiao qi

Silent Knight said:


> A L-39 jet trainer of the VPAF has crashed.
> 
> This is a single-pilot flight, so there was no instructor on board, only the pilot trainee. The aircraft suffered technical malfunction during the flight, the pilot requested to stay on aircraft to attempt emergency landing. Sadly, he was killed during the landing.

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## Silent Knight

The pilot trainee was only 22 years old.

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## Carlosa

CCP said:


> Proof? Sure!
> 
> Look at those rusty looking birds, I think it can prove the quality of your "maintenance and overhaul capability".
> 
> 
> Thanks @Viet for those photos.



@waz @Hu Songshan 

Dear mods, sorry that I have to call you again, but this guy doesn't listen to your warnings and keeps coming here to troll, now he is making fun of a situation where a pilot just lost its life, please ban this guy.

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## BoQ77

RIP the young boy. 
I posted repeatly in Vietnam forum about "Vietnam need new trainer aircrafts"
And another thing, the urbanization with help of local authorities approached too close to military airport everywhere.

What you guys think about the next purchase of fighters and trainers ? as we know that Russian style trainers are for Russian made fighters; and US trainers for US fighters.

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## Silent Knight

Same aircraft, after overhaul.













By the way, Su-27SK bort 6005 had extensive damage in the hull, not just an engine fire from bird strike. The cost of repair was more than half of a brand new Su-30MK2V, so it remains there. That doesn't mean we can't fix the Su-27 and Su-30 fleet, otherwise how could they keep flying after 20 years?

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> RIP the young boy.
> I posted repeatly in Vietnam forum about "Vietnam need new trainer aircrafts"
> And another thing, the urbanization with help of local authorities approached too close to military airport everywhere.
> 
> What you guys think about the next purchase of fighters and trainers ? as we know that Russian style trainers are for Russian made fighters; and US trainers for US fighters.



Vietnam was supposed to get some Yakovlev Yak-130s, but don't know when.

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## Nilgiri

Maybe Vietnam can look at the L-159 as well? I have heard really good things about it.






BTW, India license produces the Hawk AJT....if you sign a deal with BaE you can get them for cheap from India given the production line for Asia is set up here...and India is looking to move to the advanced Hawk that BaE is developing right now that Vietnam may be interested in too....of course this would be after your Yak-130 timeframe....for maybe more capability as your airforce expands down the road.

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## Carlosa

Vietnam Air Force jet crashes in Phu Yen, at least 2 killed

Thanh Nien News

*PHU YEN* - Friday, August 26, 2016 10:25Email Vietnamese aircraft goes missing while searching for lost pilot and fighter jet[/paste:font]

A Vietnam Air Force jet trainer crashed in Phu Yen just minutes after take-off this morning, killing at least one crew member and a civilian on the ground, a military officer said.
Vu Duc Quy, vice principal of the Vietnam Air Force Officers School, was quoted as saying by Tuoi Tre newspaper that a student of the school died in the accident.

The aircraft is a Czechoslovakia-made Aero L-39 Albatros belonging to Regiment 910 based in Phu Yen.
Witnesses said the aircraft crashed into National Highway 1 before plunging into a rice field, killing at least a person on the road.
The aircraft’s front portion, including the cockpit, is damaged.
Rescue efforts are underway.






Witnesses said the aircraft crashed into National Highway 1, killing at least a person on the road




Photo: Duc Huy

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## BoQ77

The typical US naval Aviator is going to see a couple years of training.

Prior to going to the first training base, prospective Student Naval Aviators (SNAs) go through a couple weeks of ground school, take FAA tests, then go through 11 flights, culminating in soloing. This is new. Just a few years ago, you didn't have this step.
Once at the primary training base, the SNA goes though a 6-week Aviation Preflight Indoctrination. This includes the most intense physical exam you've likely been through, physical fitness testing, academic instruction, water and land survival, altitude chamber rides, various aviation-specific survival courses, and some military training.
Primary flight training is 22 weeks, mixing ground instruction, simulators, and flights in the T-6A Texan II.





If you have the grades and there are open slots, you can select the jet pipeline. This will send you to another training base.

Intermediate Strike (jet) training is 27 weeks flying the T-45 Goshawk. It amounts to familiarization, formation, instruments, night, and basic airway navigation flying.
Advanced Strike is 23 weeks in the same jet. It focuses on advanced instrument flying, tactical formation, air combat maneuvering, bombing, low level nav, and culminates in landing aboard the carrier. Completing this phase earns the SNA wings of gold.






Naval Aviators will be assigned to their fleet aircraft based on the needs of the Navy. The number one pilot traditionally gets the pick, but everyone else is at the whims of the service.

Training the chosen aircraft is done at the Fleet Replacement Squardon and amounts to about 9 months of training that mirrors all of the training in the intermediate and advanced pipeline, but in the new aircraft. The final phase of the training is becoming carrier qualified in the jet and seeing the carrier for the first time at night.
After completing the RAG (short for "Replacement Air Group", the old name), aviators will be assigned to an active squadron, where they will undergo further training in advanced weapons delivery and maneuvering. It's here that an aviator can see combat right out of the gate, so I guess you can say that everything above this paragraph is what needs to happen before one can be called a "fighter pilot", but the learning never stops.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Sis @xiao qi What he is trying to tell you is that the J-10 and J-11 fighters have accidents like crazy (mostly because of very bad chinese engines). The chinese troll seems to have forgotten that.


 yup, I don't know what is the meaning of MRO. so i can't answer to him. Forgive me . Thank you @Carlosa

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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> yup, I don't know what is the meaning of MRO. so i can't answer to him. Forgive me . Thank you @Carlosa



MRO = Maintenance, Repair, Overhaul.

Hope it helps you dear!

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> MRO = Maintenance, Repair, Overhaul.
> 
> Hope it helps you dear!


When i used google, it said : *MRO : Summary for Marathon Oil Corporation Common *

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> When i used google, it said : *MRO : Summary for Marathon Oil Corporation Common *



Troi oi, Google translations are pretty bad, can't definitely trust them.

One example of a bad Google translation of a very typical word: Google translates "nice" as "dep" which means beautiful, but nice is not beautiful. Its a different meaning. Only if you say "nice looking" you could come up with something close to beautiful.

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## waz

CCP said:


> Proof? Sure!
> 
> Look at those rusty looking birds, I think it can prove the quality of your "maintenance and overhaul capability".
> 
> 
> Thanks @Viet for those photos.



Think over how you act on this forum during your ban. You also insulted a dead pilot.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> A L-39 jet trainer of the VPAF has crashed.
> 
> This is a single-pilot flight, so there was no instructor on board, only the pilot trainee. The aircraft suffered technical malfunction during the flight, the pilot requested to stay on aircraft to attempt emergency landing. Sadly, he was killed during the landing.



This is the third accident in Vietnam with the L-39 jet.

One was in 29/4/2005 and another one in 5/6/2007.



waz said:


> Think over how you act on this forum during your ban. You also insulted a dead pilot.



Thank you very much bro, you are the MAN.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Maybe Vietnam can look at the L-159 as well? I have heard really good things about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, India license produces the Hawk AJT....if you sign a deal with BaE you can get them for cheap from India given the production line for Asia is set up here...and India is looking to move to the advanced Hawk that BaE is developing right now that Vietnam may be interested in too....of course this would be after your Yak-130 timeframe....for maybe more capability as your airforce expands down the road.


actualy the albaros is a good trainer Jet, but it is getting old. yes, we may begin to look for new jets.

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## Carlosa

waz said:


> Think over how you act on this forum during your ban. You also insulted a dead pilot.



A dead pilot that was just 22, a rookie, and he died because he tried to save the plane, he defied orders to eject and tried to land. That's actually quite typical in Vietnam.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Ms. mado will be more depressed if she knows Indonesia Leopard 2/A4 tank has no chance in a direct encounter with T-90MS. while the Russian tank would blow up the Leo after piercing through its armor like a hot sharp knife through butter, the Leo could only scratch and damage the T90´s armor a bit



You probably never heard of a thing called a "Monkey Model." 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment
BTW hope the T-90 materializes.... Just don't expect it to be any good.


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## Carlosa

Here we go again.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You probably never heard of a thing called a "Monkey Model."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment
> BTW hope the T-90 materializes.... Just don't expect it to be any good.


well nobody can predict the future, whether T-90 will materialize or not, but one thing is sure, if you could maintain military hardware like we do, for example T-34s, your country would still possess Soviet made battleships.

North Vietnamese T-34 tanks and supporting infantry riding into battle. Still in operation today 

_





_

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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> well nobody can predict the future, whether T-90 will materialize or not, but one thing is sure, if you could maintain military hardware like we do, for example T-34s, your country would still possess Soviet made battleships.
> 
> North Vietnamese T-34 tanks and supporting infantry riding into battle. Still in operation today



Battleship is a relic of the past like Cavalry. Naval combat are now decided by missiles not cannon. We even slowly replacing our 30mm cannon on our Kapten Pattimura ship for a CIWS.

You shouldn't be proud of maintaining a T-34. In Iran-Iraq war Saddam's collection of Russian Tanks lost to a western tank like the Centurion & Challenger.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Battleship is a relic of the past like Cavalry. Naval combat are now decided by missiles not cannon. We even slowly replacing our 30mm cannon on our Kapten Pattimura ship for a CIWS.
> 
> You shouldn't be proud of maintaining a T-34. In Iran-Iraq war Saddam's collection of Russian Tanks lost to a western tank like the Centurion & Challenger.


ha ha ha do you think we don´t have missiles? where have you been all the time? 

giving you an example. only few countries in the world have submarines equipped by land attack missiles. wake up dude 

having modern equipments does not mean we throw the old stuffs away. like many do. like you do.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> well nobody can predict the future, whether T-90 will materialize or not, but one thing is sure, if you could maintain military hardware like we do, for example T-34s, your country would still possess Soviet made battleships.
> 
> North Vietnamese T-34 tanks and supporting infantry riding into battle. Still in operation today
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



In storage actually.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Battleship is a relic of the past like Cavalry. Naval combat are now decided by missiles not cannon. We even slowly replacing our 30mm cannon on our Kapten Pattimura ship for a CIWS.
> 
> You shouldn't be proud of maintaining a T-34. In Iran-Iraq war Saddam's collection of Russian Tanks lost to a western tank like the Centurion & Challenger.



I think you forget that Vietnam has reserves of several million men and when you have such large reserves, you need to keep the old equipment in storage and in working condition.

Those reserves infantry forces are better off with some T-34s rather than to not have them, don't you think?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> In storage actually.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you forget that Vietnam has reserves of several million men and when you have such large reserves, you need to keep the old equipment in storage and in working condition.
> 
> Those reserves infantry forces are better off with some T-34s rather than to not have them, don't you think?



That means you waste valuable resources on a vehicle that are clearly obsolete even by cold war standard. Modern AT-Rifle can even penetrate T-34. Even India are regretting their decision on keeping relics on reserve.


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That means you waste valuable resources on a vehicle that are clearly obsolete even by cold war standard. Modern AT-Rifle can even penetrate T-34. Even India are regretting their decision on keeping relics on reserve.



Maybe wasting for Indonesia standards, but not for Vietnam's way of fighting.
Lots of modern APC / IFVs get creamed with modern infantry weapons, so? Are you going to retire everything that has some vulnerability? Then how much are you going to have left? There are lots of different types of uses for old equipment. Indonesia doesn't want them? Send them to Vietnam, they'll take them. No problem.

Do you think a shell from an old gun kills more gently than from a modern gun?


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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Battleship is a relic of the past like Cavalry. Naval combat are now decided by missiles not cannon. We even slowly replacing our 30mm cannon on our Kapten Pattimura ship for a CIWS.
> 
> You shouldn't be proud of maintaining a T-34. In Iran-Iraq war Saddam's collection of Russian Tanks lost to a western tank like the Centurion & Challenger.


Why battleship is relic? Did Baath party felt differently when they received Tomahawk from USS Missouri ?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> That means you waste valuable resources on a vehicle that are clearly obsolete even by cold war standard. Modern AT-Rifle can even penetrate T-34. Even India are regretting their decision on keeping relics on reserve.


T-34 in Indian war reserves?

Only tanks that are in Indian war reserves are T-55 and Vickers. Also China, Pakistan and many other country also use Type 59 in active duty, that are not even in war reserves.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> That means you waste valuable resources on a vehicle that are clearly obsolete even by cold war standard. Modern AT-Rifle can even penetrate T-34. Even India are regretting their decision on keeping relics on reserve.


Also reserves means for worst case scenario. 

They are not repaired constantly.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> Maybe wasting for Indonesia standards, but not for Vietnam's way of fighting.
> Lots of modern APC / IFVs get creamed with modern infantry weapons, so? Are you going to retire everything that has some vulnerability? Then how much are you going to have left? There are lots of different types of uses for old equipment. Indonesia doesn't want them? Send them to Vietnam, they'll take them. No problem.
> 
> Do you think a shell from an old gun kills more gently than from a modern gun?



1. False Equivalencies. We're not talking about contemporary tanks or earlier we're talking about a tank from WW2. The problems with the T-34 is they don't have any place on the modern battlefield. Any job a T-34 can do an IFV can do better. Like the BMP.

Case example:We do not retire our AMX-13 because it still have a use as a tank destroyer and as SPH. A T-34 going up against AMX-13 is just signing their deathwish.


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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 1. False Equivalencies. We're not talking about contemporary tanks or earlier we're talking about a tank from WW2. The problems with the T-34 is they don't have any place on the modern battlefield. Any job a T-34 can do an IFV can do better. Like the BMP.
> 
> Case example:We do not retire our AMX-13 because it still have a use as a tank destroyer and as SPH. A T-34 going up against AMX-13 is just signing their deathwish.


Those are war reserves, and war reserves are for worst case scenario.
During worst case scenario is not about battle worthy or not, or win or defeat. Thats life or death.

If situation remain so wonderful, or during contact battles. T-34 will never be used against anyone by Vietnam.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Case example:We do not retire our AMX-13 because it still have a use as a tank destroyer and as SPH. A T-34 going up against AMX-13 is just signing their deathwish.



T-34 never see AMX-13. Rest assured.

If in Indian Army's inventory T-55 exist, that doesnt means Indian Army use T-55 against their adversaries/

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 1. False Equivalencies. We're not talking about contemporary tanks or earlier we're talking about a tank from WW2. The problems with the T-34 is they don't have any place on the modern battlefield. Any job a T-34 can do an IFV can do better. Like the BMP.
> 
> Case example:We do not retire our AMX-13 because it still have a use as a tank destroyer and as SPH. A T-34 going up against AMX-13 is just signing their deathwish.



False assumptions, who said that the T-34 will get used against tanks.

A T-34 that is well camouflaged or buried in a bunker (as Vietnam has done in the Spratlys) will do the first shot and that shot is very valuable. 

You obviously have very little knowledge of actual warfare, maybe you should watch some History channel documentaries to try to learn something. And you called yourself formil? You remind me of the chinese teenagers in this forum that read articles online and think they are military experts.



Farhan Bohra said:


> Those are war reserves, and war reserves are for worst case scenario.
> During worst case scenario is not about battle worthy or not, or win or defeat. Thats life or death.
> 
> If situation remain so wonderful, or during contact battles. T-34 will never be used against anyone by Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> T-34 never see AMX-13. Rest assured.
> 
> If in Indian Army's inventory T-55 exist, that doesnt means Indian Army use T-55 against their adversaries/



Its always the same story with this guy, he comes up with wild statements and then when he can't back them up, he starts to make up facts or excuses.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Farhan Bohra said:


> Those are war reserves, and war reserves are for worst case scenario.
> During worst case scenario is not about battle worthy or not, or win or defeat. Thats life or death.
> 
> If situation remain so wonderful, or during contact battles. T-34 will never be used against anyone by Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> T-34 never see AMX-13. Rest assured.
> 
> If in Indian Army's inventory T-55 exist, that doesnt means Indian Army use T-55 against their adversaries/



Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it. 

Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.

Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it.
> 
> Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.
> 
> Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.



You don't get it, Vietnam is very creative when it comes to using equipment as they have shown during the war.

Who are you to tell them what they should keep or not?

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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it.
> 
> Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.
> 
> Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.


Facepalm,

I can assure you in today's world Indonesia get a$$ kicked in AMX-13, if it used in contact battles.

And BTW, you are not comparing war doctrines or equipments. You want to patronize other.

You want comparison? why you not comparing that with India that is just 80 Km from Indonesia? Why Vietnam that is very very far away from Indonesia?

Even why you comparing? When there is no chance of war between Indonesia and Vietnam? Each country have there own threat matrix.

Or you want war between Indonesia and Vietnam?

I can assure you that never happen, big powers never allow that.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Farhan Bohra said:


> Facepalm,
> 
> I can assure you in today's world Indonesia get a$$ kicked in AMX-13, if it used in contact battles.
> 
> And BTW, you are not comparing war doctrines or equipments. You want to patronize other.
> 
> You want comparison, why you not comparing that with India that is just 80 Km from Indonesia? Why Vietnam that is very very far away from Indonesia?



Name me 1 country beside vietnam that still keep T-34s... You got your answer.


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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Name me 1 country beside vietnam that still keep T-34s... You got your answer.


You already got your answer.

That is war reserve, not in active duty. While AMX-13 is in active duty of Indonesia. Please will you describe war reserves of Indonesia?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Farhan Bohra said:


> You already got your answer.
> 
> That is war reserve, not in active duty. While AMX-13 is in active duty of Indonesia? Please will you describe war reserves of Indonesia?



Anything past 30 are slowly being replaced. Unless they cannot upgrade it anymore as per procedure. An AMX still have its uses as a tank destroyer & howitzer. Like I said earlier its not about them keeping what's what, but about them actually feeling proud by keeping a relic in service. Wasting storage spaces & resources of all thing.

Also I want you to back up a bit & think 4 a second. You are essentially supporting keeping outdated equipment that are way past its expiration date. We're talking about WW2 era weapons here not cold war.

I'm not telling the vietnamese on what to do this is my opinion on the wastefulness of keeping an outdated equipments.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You don't get it, Vietnam is very creative when it comes to using equipment as they have shown during the war.
> 
> Who are you to tell them what they should keep or not?


bro I laugh at delusional people. they never know winning a war is more than counting men and military hardware.
otherwise we never have a chance winning against enemies that are mulitple times bigger than our army. the Mongols once established a vast empire than spans half of Asia and Europe. their army hordes were rolling over countries and continents, subjugating even China empire, doing endless massacres on populace that dared to resist. they fielded more men, more horses, more weapons than we ever had in our inventory. But going to war against Vietnam, the mongol armies suffered a total blow. they tried 3 times, all ended as military disaster for them.









the decisive battle of banh dang river under the command of tran hung dao

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> *I'm not telling the vietnamese on what to do* this is my opinion on the wastefulness of keeping an outdated equipments.



No kidding. Since when the Vietnamese army needs your opinion to decide what to keep in reserve?
They have the space, the labor for maintenance is cheap and they want to keep it in reserve. So what is your problem with that?

You don't have anything better to talk about?



Viet said:


> bro I laugh at delusional people. they never know winning a war is more than counting men and military hardware.
> otherwise we never have a chance winning against enemies that are mulitple bigger than our army. the Mongols once established a vast empire than spans half of Asia and Europe. their army hordes were rolling over countries and continents, subjugating even China empire, doing endless massacres on populace that dared to resist. But against Vietnam, the mongol armies suffered a total blow. they tried 3 times, all ended as disaster for them.



That's why I said this guy reminds me of the chinese teenagers in PDF.



Farhan Bohra said:


> You already got your answer.
> 
> That is war reserve, not in active duty. While AMX-13 is in active duty of Indonesia. Please will you describe war reserves of Indonesia?



Actually, the armor of the T-34 is about double than in the PT-76. Also a 76mm gun.
There are lots of modern armored vehicles that have much less armor than the 45mm armor of the T-34.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Farhan Bohra said:


> Why battleship is relic? Did Baath party felt differently when they received Tomahawk from USS Missouri ?
> 
> 
> T-34 in Indian war reserves?
> 
> Only tanks that are in Indian war reserves are T-55 and Vickers. Also China, Pakistan and many other country also use Type 59 in active duty, that are not even in war reserves.
> 
> 
> Also reserves means for worst case scenario.
> 
> They are not repaired constantly.



Because long range engagements has been replaced by missiles making the large guns from a battleship obsolete. 

False equivalencies a tank like the T-55 still have some uses left because of continuous upgrade. 

They also takes up storage spaces for


Viet said:


> bro I laugh at delusional people. they never know winning a war is more than counting men and military hardware.
> otherwise we never have a chance winning against enemies that are mulitple bigger than our army. the Mongols once established a vast empire than spans half of Asia and Europe. their army hordes were rolling over countries and continents, subjugating even China empire, doing endless massacres on populace that dared to resist. But against Vietnam, the mongol armies suffered a total blow. they tried 3 times, all ended as military disaster for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the decisive battle of banh dang river under the command of tran hung dao



Actually War is no longer considered to be an Art form its Science. 




(P) *Policy* is a superset of (W) *War* which is equal to the maximum (F) *Force* of opponent (A) A divided by the maximum (F) *Force* of opponent (B) B plus (f) “blind natural *force*” multiplied by (c) *chance*.
_where_
(F) *Force* is equal to (A) *Attack* minus (D) *Defense* minus (E) *Emotion* or kindness, all multiplied by (h) *human factors* and divided by the (p) *political objective*.
_and_
(f) “blind natural *Force*” is equal to violence multiplied by hatred multiplied by enmity.

Bow down to Clausewitz: http://www.clausewitz.com/readings/Echevarria/APSTRAT1.htm



Carlosa said:


> No kidding. Since when the Vietnamese army needs your opinion to decide what to keep in reserve?
> They have the space, the labor for maintenance is cheap and they want to keep it in reserve. So what is your problem with that?
> 
> You don't have anything better to talk about?



So you don't want valid criticism. You just want a forum to be a self-congratulatory echo chamber is that it?

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## Wet Shirt Contest

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Exactly life & death. Of which the crewmen will get the later if pushed into a possible conflict. Speaking of life & death. A weapon have a service life of which the T-34 clearly passed waaayyy beyond it.
> 
> Also T-55 are a different case because there's actually still a use 4 them thanks to continous upgrade. But there are limit on how you can upgrade a vehicle hence why the need 4 replacement.
> 
> Another case is the M113 carrier despite being old it will not be replaced anytime soon. Cannot say the same to viet T-34s.




clearly you have no idea of the subject, those t34 are war reserves and probably will never see active combat, a well camouflaged t34 is 10 times deadlier than bare infantryman. you can think of it as a nimble bunker, given the nature of dense and lush landscape of vietnam those t34 can be a huge headache.

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So you don't want valid criticism. You just want a forum to be a self-congratulatory echo chamber is that it?



The problem is, this is not valid criticism, this is a royal waste of time, at least pick a better subject.



Wet Shirt Contest said:


> clearly you have no idea of the subject, those t34 are war reserves and probably will never see active combat, a well camouflaged t34 is 10 times deadlier than bare infantryman. you can think of it as a nimble bunker, given the nature of dense and lush landscape of vietnam those t34 can be a huge headache.



Thank you, I've tried to explain that to this guy, but he just doesn't get it. And yes, he has absolutely no idea about the subject.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> The problem is, this is not valid criticism, this is a royal waste of time, at least pick a better subject.



So talking about a T-34 in goddamn 2016 is not valid criticism. I do wonder what makes a valid criticism according to you?

How about the monkey model T-90 that Vietnam will buy seems apropos if we talking about the subject of tanks.


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So talking about a T-34 in goddamn 2016 is not valid criticism. I do wonder what makes a valid criticism according to you?
> 
> How about the monkey model T-90 that Vietnam will buy seems apropos if we talking about the subject of tanks.



Talking about the T-90 would be more interesting, but talking about why Vietnam wants to keep T-34s in storage is a waste of time.

By the way, have anything to say about the value of a camouflaged T-34 in combat? 2 people already mentioned that.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> Talking about the T-90 would be more interesting, but talking about why Vietnam wants to keep T-34s in storage is a waste of time.
> 
> By the way, have anything to say about the value of a camouflaged T-34 in combat? 2 people already mentioned that.



Valid Criticism nonetheless.

An Anti-Tank Gun would do the job even better because it can actually hide even better. Once again you need to be reminded that this is 2016.


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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Anything past 30 are slowly being replaced. Unless they cannot upgrade it anymore as per procedure. An AMX still have its uses as a tank destroyer & howitzer. Like I said earlier its not about them keeping what's what, but about them actually feeling proud by keeping a relic in service. Wasting storage spaces & resources of all thing.
> 
> Also I want you to back up a bit & think 4 a second. You are essentially supporting keeping outdated equipment that are way past its expiration date. We're talking about WW2 era weapons here not cold war.
> 
> I'm not telling the vietnamese on what to do this is my opinion on the wastefulness of keeping an outdated equipments.



So you changing the topic as you know shit about war reserves. Do you?

Or you even dont know Indonesia hold what in war reserves? I can tell you those are even pathetic than T-34 (if you dont know about your own armed forces).

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So talking about a T-34 in goddamn 2016 is not valid criticism. I do wonder what makes a valid criticism according to you?
> 
> How about the monkey model T-90 that Vietnam will buy seems apropos if we talking about the subject of tanks.


you still don´t get it. we win wars against our enemies as China, Mongol, Manchu, France, America, Siam, Champa, Cambodia, despite our enemies getting supports from other armies as Australia, Korea, Germany, Thailand because our IQ is "higher" (well, I´m really not sure nor convinced about it) not because of our tanks and airplanes. xyz models.


http://www.unz.com/akarlin/genetics-iq-and-convergence/


"Regardless, short of them embarking on some new Maoist adventure, or getting flooded off the world map by runaway global warming, or getting nuked, or some other similarly apocalyptic scenario, *China*’s and *Vietnam*’s convergence to at least *Japan*’s level is all but certain in the long run."

Anatoly Karlin

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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> An AMX still have its uses as a tank destroyer & howitzer.



Are you serious? Tank destroyer? 

Which ATGM they are equipped with? Ever you seen images of modern tank destroyers? Let me do a favor to you, and show you how modern tank destroyer look like.





\

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Valid Criticism nonetheless.
> 
> An Anti-Tank Gun would do the job even better because it can actually hide even better. Once again you need to be reminded that this is 2016.



Like I said before, millions of people in the reserves. There isn't enough hardware for everybody, so whatever its useful, gets kept. Simple as that. What is it about that that you don't understand?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Farhan Bohra said:


> So you changing the topic as you know shit about war reserves. Do you?
> 
> Or you even dont know Indonesia hold what in war reserves? I can tell you those are even pathetic than T-34 (if you dont know about your own armed forces).



You aIso know shit about service life. Any layman would point out about the Anachronism of keeping a T-34.

Also didn't realize we still keep ww2 Japanese tanks in our inventory do please elaborate. I do love a civil discourse.




Farhan Bohra said:


> Are you serious? Tank destroyer?
> 
> Which ATGM they are equipped with? Ever you seen images of modern tank destroyers? Let me do a favor to you, and show you how modern tank destroyer look like.



A "light" Anti-Tank Destroyer & as Howitzer. So far a T-34 is useless in both regards.


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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You aIso know shit about service life. Any layman would point out about the Anachronism of keeping a T-34.


And you know shit about war reserves.



> Also didn't realize we still keep ww2 Japanese tanks in our inventory do please elaborate. I do love a civil discourse.



Why I tell you. I am a citizen of Indonesia, or you? Do your own research before banging your head.


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## Viet

new recuits. training matters.

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> A "light" Anti-Tank Destroyer & as Howitzer. So far a T-34 is useless in both regards.



Do the words "infantry support" mean anything to you? "Camouflaged gun" "76mm gun", "45mm armor protection"?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> Like I said before, millions of people in the reserves. There isn't enough hardware for everybody, so whatever its useful, gets kept. Simple as that. What is it about that that you don't understand?



Scrap the tanks for cash & take the guns. Problem solved. I just solved your soldiers equipment problem.

If you thinking about facing China a tank like the T-34 should be the last thing you need. You need to focus more on asymmetrical warfare. Using your soldiers as cannon fodder in an obsolete tanks is not the best way to engage China.



Carlosa said:


> Do the words "infantry support" mean anything to you? "Camouflaged gun" "76mm gun", "45mm armor protection"?



Do RPG means nothing you? T-34 is close combat tank while the AMX can snipe any target from a longer distance.


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Scrap the tanks for cash & take the guns. Problem solved. I just solved your soldiers equipment problem.
> 
> If you thinking about facing China a tank like the T-34 should be the last thing you need. You need to focus more on asymmetrical warfare. Using your soldiers as cannon fodder in an obsolete tanks is not the best way to engage China.



What problem solved when there is actually no problem? You are the one that has a problem. I think you need to sleep, you are making no sense at all.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Scrap the tanks for cash & take the guns. Problem solved. I just solved your soldiers equipment problem.
> 
> If you thinking about facing China a tank like the T-34 should be the last thing you need. You need to focus more on asymmetrical warfare. Using your soldiers as cannon fodder in an obsolete tanks is not the best way to engage China.
> 
> 
> 
> Do RPG means nothing you? T-34 is close combat tank while the AMX can snipe any target from a longer distance.



Camouflaged 76mm gun means nothing to you? What is your problem? Why you like to dismiss something just because is old even that is kept in perfect working order?

That 76mm gun doesn't kill because is old?


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You aIso know shit about service life. Any layman would point out about the Anachronism of keeping a T-34.
> 
> Also didn't realize we still keep ww2 Japanese tanks in our inventory do please elaborate. I do love a civil discourse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A "light" Anti-Tank Destroyer & as Howitzer. So far a T-34 is useless in both regards.


so what about T54/55 tanks? should we also send all to museum and we voluntarily surrender to the chinese?

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> so what about T54/55 tanks? should we also send all to museum and we voluntarily surrender to the chinese?



Still AMX-13 is superior as it not only a Tank Destroyer but sub class of USS Enterprise of Star Trek, flown by Buzz Lightyear.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> What problem solved when there is actually no problem? You are the one that has a problem. I think you need to sleep, you are making no sense at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Camouflaged 76mm gun means nothing to you? What is your problem? Why you like to dismiss something just because is old even that is kept in perfect working order?
> 
> That 76mm gun doesn't kill because is old?



You make it seems that barrel size is the only thing that matters in a tank. Fire control system, Suspension, Sights the works that what makes a tank. Even if the T-34 managed to be an effective ambusher, but due to its short barrel once its fire its gun that means the enemy (Assuming it is China) will notice it and destroy it immediately. That's why I suggest that the gun should be taken out of the tanks to make it easier for the crew to disembark.

I guess you can opt for a barrel change, but it will just be a waste of money when your much newer tank can used the extra fire powers.


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You make it seems that barrel size is the only thing that matters in a tank. Fire control system, Suspension, Sights the works that what makes a tank. Even if the T-34 managed to be an effective ambusher, but due to its short barrel once its fire its gun that means the enemy (Assuming it is China) will notice it and destroy it immediately. That's why I suggest that the gun should be taken out of the tanks to make it easier for the crew to disembark.
> 
> I guess you can opt for a barrel change, but it will just be a waste of money when your much newer tank can used the extra fire powers.



Same story as with a recoiless gun such as the SPG-9T2 73mm, manual operation, no fire control, just aim and shoot, that does not kill any more because is old? This is shooting at short range, hello?

I have to keep repeating: Like I said before, millions of people in the reserves. There isn't enough hardware for everybody, so whatever its useful, gets kept. Simple as that. What is it about that that you don't understand?


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Still AMX-11 is superior as it not only a Tank Destroyer but sub class of USS Enterprise of Star Trek, flown by Buzz Lightyear.


you should wait until sis mado comes claiming our army is weaker than thailand and cambodia, because the siamese have some handful better tanks and the khmer some better granate launchers

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> Same story as with a recoiless gun such as the SPG-9T2 73mm, manual operation, no fire control, just aim and just, that does not kill any more because is old?
> 
> I have to keep repeating: Like I said before, millions of people in the reserves. There isn't enough hardware for everybody, so whatever its useful, gets kept. Simple as that. What is it about that that you don't understand?



Course I understand the need to equip the soldiers, but useful? seriously we're talking about a T-34 here! If you have a Tiger then maybe I can be a bit more lenient. Your long barrel fully upgraded T-55 at least might have some chance of surviving, but a T-34 is 100% guaranteed to be destroyed if you put them in a role you mentioned. You might have no qualms about sending good soldiers to die, but I do.

Like I said scrap the Tanks, grab the Guns. At least its a better uses for them.


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Course I understand the need to equip the soldiers, but useful? seriously we're talking about a T-34 here! If you have a Tiger then maybe I can be a bit more lenient. Your long barrel fully upgraded T-55 at least might have some chance of surviving, but a T-34 is 100% guaranteed to be destroyed if you put them in a role you mentioned. You might have no qualms about sending good soldiers to die, but I do.
> 
> Like I said scrap the Tanks, grab the Guns. At least its a better uses for them.



ANYTHING that is useful is better than nothing. Simple as that, can't spend money to buy new equipment for the reserves, have to use what is available.



Viet said:


> you should wait until sis mado comes claiming our army is weaker than thailand and cambodia, because the siamese have some handful better tanks and the khmer some better granate launchers



Sis mado got blasted pretty bad here the other day. She is not coming back anytime soon and if she happens to come, she'll have to behave like a very good girl as the mod already warned her.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> ANYTHING that is useful is better than nothing. Simple as that, can't spend money to buy new equipment for the reserves, have to use what is available.



I thought we already established that I understand your country's concern. I just don't agree with keeping an outdated relic like the T-34 when your country can sell them for double the price to a collector and uses that money for ATGM, Howitzers or something which are more useful in an ambush role. Take note from Hezbollah they managed to halt Israeli's armored column despite being far more inferior to the IDF. 

So to be clear we managed to clear out that I understand your reasoning to find a way to equipped your soldiers & we at least agree that the T-34 is "crap" with very limited uses & a waste of space at that.


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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I thought we already established that I understand your country's concern. I just don't agree with keeping an outdated relic like the T-34 when your country can sell them for double the price to a collector and uses that money for ATGM, Howitzers or something which are more useful in an ambush role. Take note from Hezbollah they managed to halt Israeli's armored column despite being far more inferior to the IDF.
> 
> So to be clear we managed to clear out that I understand your reasoning to find a way to equipped your soldiers & we at least agree that the T-34 is "crap" with very limited uses & a waste of space at that.


I even dont understand why "shit" AMX-13 are in Indonesian service? While around the Indonesia everyone retired tanks from 50s and added them in war reserves? Why not sell them to France and buy some MILAN ATGM?

Also Hezbollah never able to stop Israeli armors. IDF achieved objectives what they asked for.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Farhan Bohra said:


> I even dont understand why "shit" AMX-13 are in Indonesian service? While around the Indonesia everyone retired tanks from 50s and added them in war reserves? Why not sell them to France and buy some MILAN ATGM?
> 
> Also Hezbollah never able to stop Israeli armors. IDF achieved objectives what they asked for.



You're comparing apple to orange. Vietnam strategos revolves around defensive & Asymmetric Warfare. While Indonesian strategy revolves around offense & mobility. Also funny you asked http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/indonesia-javelin-missiles

So did Hezbollah claim to achieved their objective. It didn't stop them from causing more material damages on the IDF side. For a group without an Army, Navy or an Air Force that's quite the accomplishment. Credit should be given where credits are due.


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## Nilgiri

Last 4 - 5 pages of T-34 talk 

Plenty of countries keep legacy tanks in reserves to use as cheap protection for logistics (i.e like a heavy mortar/grenade launcher rather than to use for maneuvering/armour).

India's T-55s are mostly for this role along with the ones that have been converted for engineering purposes (dozing, bridge laying, mine clearing etc).

Let us talk about what Vietnam chances are for getting T-90 MS etc...

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## Reashot Xigwin

Nilgiri said:


> Last 4 - 5 pages of T-34 talk
> 
> Plenty of countries keep legacy tanks in reserves to use as cheap protection for logistics (i.e like a heavy mortar/grenade launcher rather than to use for maneuvering/armour).
> 
> India's T-55s are mostly for this role along with the ones that have been converted for engineering purposes (dozing, bridge laying, mine clearing etc).
> 
> Let us talk about what Vietnam chances are for getting T-90 MS etc...



fair enough. I already prove my points.

I do hope the T-90 deals not a bust though.


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## Farhan Bohra

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You're comparing apple to orange. Vietnam strategos revolves around defensive & Asymmetric Warfare. While Indonesian strategy revolves around offense & mobility. Also funny you asked http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/indonesia-javelin-missiles
> 
> So did Hezbollah claim to achieved their objective. It didn't stop them from causing more material damages on the IDF side. For a group without an Army, Navy or an Air Force that's quite the accomplishment. Credit should be given where credits are due.


Oh seriously offensive strategy? Like against where China or India? Lolz.

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## Viet

*Vietnam conducts test runs for two more ‘Lightning’ warships*
By Toan Dao 
August 26, 2016 | 06:00 am GMT+7







One of the two new warships. Photo courtesy of People's Army Newspaper


*They have the power to destroy warships and protect submarines.*

The Ba Son Shipyard under Vietnam’s Ministry of National Defense is carrying out trial runs to prepare for formal handover of two more fast-attack missile ships to the Navy.

The four-day test runs of the M5 and M6 vessels at sea are wrapping up on Friday following the successful trial operations at the dock, the government portal reported Thursday.

The two vessels were launched in April this year.

Vietnam received the first two Russian-made ships of Molniya class in 2007 and 2008. Under a technology transfer agreement signed by Vietnam and Russia in 2009, the latter agreed that six more will be built and assembled under license in Ba Son shipyard. So far four have been handed over to the Navy and M5 and M6 are the fifth and sixth.

The vessels are designed to destroy warships, amphibious vessels, corvettes, and other enemy targets. They are able to help protect submarines and amphibious ships, and perform reconnaissance missions at sea.

Russia has already handed over five out of the total six submarines to Vietnam. The last one is expected to be delivered at the end of this year.


The two corvettes are equipped with advanced weapons and functions. They are able to operate at sea for 10 straight days and can attack targets both in the air and at sea.

Apart from a modern radar system for tracking targets, each of the vessels is also equipped with 16 sea-to-sea Uran-E missiles arranged into four modules for launch on each side with a range of 130 km.

The other weapons installed in each vessel include two AK-630 ship-borne artillery systems with 4,000 shells each, which can fire at targets at a range of 4-5 km, and an AK-176M automatic gun with a range of 15 km for sea and land targets and 11 km for air targets.

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> fair enough. I already prove my points..



The only thing that you have proven is that you are a time waster.

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## BoQ77

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Course I understand the need to equip the soldiers, but useful? seriously we're talking about a T-34 here! If you have a Tiger then maybe I can be a bit more lenient. Your long barrel fully upgraded T-55 at least might have some chance of surviving, but a T-34 is 100% guaranteed to be destroyed if you put them in a role you mentioned. You might have no qualms about sending good soldiers to die, but I do.
> 
> Like I said scrap the Tanks, grab the Guns. At least its a better uses for them.



1. When Vietnam deploy active T-54/T55 to somewhere in doubt of a potential war, T-34 could be used to train new fresh crews.Or they will be trained in a Toyota as of a tank ?

As Carlosa mentioned, some first T-34 deployed to Spratly would be rusty fast, so they only use their turrets put onto concret bunker. That means T-34 could be used as test bed for new usage, the platform to mount SAM, MANPADS or anything need mobility and armor.
Why we don't use that but pay huge money to buy new one?




Some still used in training





2. T-34 tanks used to defeat Nazi, so against any enemy that armed poorer than Nazi, then T-34 could crush them. For example, in case there's protest turn to violence.

You could never know when your military manufacturing facilites ruined by bombs.
You would love even a single steel pipe you have.





Syria

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## Carlosa

Latest plans to do reclamation on Namyit island, Spratlys:

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## Silent Knight

I would like to see how "modern" IFV and APC, like BMP-2/3 and/or Bradley.. etc.. survive against a well-placed pre-aimed 85mm round from a concealed T-34.

Period.

Edit: I think people would prefer to stay inside a tank with 85mm gun, rather than staying outside against enemy armored vehicles with a 7.62mm assault rifle.

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## Nike

i would like to see how far T34 and Su 100 of Vn army can managed to survive after being hit with cheap RPG, let alone the more modern RPG29 or NLAW



Farhan Bohra said:


> Still AMX-13 is superior as it not only a Tank Destroyer but sub class of USS Enterprise of Star Trek, flown by Buzz Lightyear.




oh sure it is an excellent tank destroyer

this thin little can had proved their value against the supposed superior T54/55 in Six day War


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## Silent Knight

madokafc said:


> i would like to see how far T34 and Su 100 of Vn army can managed to survive after being hit with cheap RPG, let alone the more modern RPG29 or NLAW


So let me translate this for you, in case you don't understand.



> *well-placed pre-aimed* 85mm round from a concealed T-34.


*Bold:* Meaning we have zeroed the coordinate of the target way before they arrive, along with reconnaissance for better updates of the enemy movement.
Underline: In other word, "Ambush" and "cannot be easily seen". Didn't know any RPG system that can hit an unknown target at 500-600m, let alone 1-2km. Remember, the enemy fights on our own turf, not the other way around.

I don't understand why you Indo people speak highly of the AMX-13 and downplay the T-34, while they both serve the same role and purpose in modern warfare? And I didn't even mention you AMX-13 yet.

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## Nike

Silent Knight said:


> So let me translate this for you, in case you don't understand.
> 
> 
> *Bold:* Meaning we have zeroed the coordinate of the target way before they arrive, along with reconnaissance for better updates of the enemy movement.
> Underline: In other word, "Ambush" and "cannot be easily seen". Didn't know any RPG system that can hit an unknown target at 500-600m, let alone 1-2km. Remember, the enemy fights on our own turf, not the other way around.
> 
> I don't understand why you Indo people speak highly of the AMX-13 and downplay the T-34, while they both serve the same role and purpose in modern warfare? And I didn't even mention you AMX-13 yet.



is much more easier to conceal man with RPG and ATGM than man with recoilles rifle

nah my amx thingy is an answer for the guy who called amx can destroy anything


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## Silent Knight

madokafc said:


> is much more easier to conceal man with RPG and ATGM than man with recoilles rifle


True, but RPG lacks the range while ATGM lacks the flexibility and cannot perform NLOS attack.

And yes, I'm talking about SACLOS ATGM like Konkurs and Kornet, not something we don't have like Spike NLOS.

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## Wet Shirt Contest

Farhan Bohra said:


> Are you serious? Tank destroyer?
> 
> Which ATGM they are equipped with? Ever you seen images of modern tank destroyers? Let me do a favor to you, and show you how modern tank destroyer look like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \





bit off topic, is NAMICA an indian tank destroyer ? is there any thread in PDF i can look into, thanks





Reashot Xigwin said:


> Scrap the tanks for cash & take the guns. Problem solved. I just solved your soldiers equipment problem.
> 
> If you thinking about facing China a tank like the T-34 should be the last thing you need. You need to focus more on asymmetrical warfare. Using your soldiers as cannon fodder in an obsolete tanks is not the best way to engage China.
> 
> 
> 
> Do RPG means nothing you? T-34 is close combat tank while the AMX can snipe any target from a longer distance.




by this logic all IFV and BMP's are useless, AMX is only good as far it can see "unhindered" , T34 are known to be nimble & agile who performed exceptional in muddy and dense Terran, they can dig up well camouflaged positions and land the first strike. both chinese and USA underestimated Vietnam and payed the price.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Silent Knight said:


> I would like to see how "modern" IFV and APC, like BMP-2/3 and/or Bradley.. etc.. survive against a well-placed pre-aimed 85mm round from a concealed T-34.
> 
> Period.
> 
> Edit: I think people would prefer to stay inside a tank with 85mm gun, rather than staying outside against enemy armored vehicles with a 7.62mm assault rifle.



No modern army will give you the satisfaction of firing a shot. Even from an ambushed position. Scouts & Drones makes such scenario less likely. A sucker punch from a T-34 isn't enough to knock down most IFV because of better protection.

M2A3 bradley protection:
○Spaced armor.
○30mm Alluminium ADSP protection ○Reactive Armor.

Also most modern IFV have TOW missiles for support against larger vehicle:





The problem with your doctrine is that it rely too much on circumstances. In an outright fight 9/10 the bradley will win every engagement against an older T-series tank. Ask Saddam.

(Last T-34 post I swear)

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## BoQ77

Reashot Xigwin said:


> No modern army will give you the satisfaction of firing a shot. Even from an ambushed position. Scouts & Drones makes such scenario less likely. A sucker punch from a T-34 isn't enough to knock down most IFV because of better protection.
> 
> M2A3 bradley protection:
> ○Spaced armor.
> ○30mm Alluminium ADSP protection ○Reactive Armor.
> 
> Also most modern IFV have TOW missiles for support against larger vehicle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with your doctrine is that it rely too much on circumstances. In an outright fight 9/10 the bradley will win every engagement against an older T-series tank. Ask Saddam.
> 
> (Last T-34 post I swear)



I suggest you stop talking about T-34 vs this or that here. And recommend that you start the thread with that title.
That provide you more room to argue and save us some pages for news and pictures.
Thanks

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> No modern army will give you the satisfaction of firing a shot. Even from an ambushed position. Scouts & Drones makes such scenario less likely. A sucker punch from a T-34 isn't enough to knock down most IFV because of better protection.(Last T-34 post I swear)



Laughable, wow, now in modern warfare there no is such thing as camouflage and hiding, UAVs have X rays now, they can see everything from afar.



Silent Knight said:


> I would like to see how "modern" IFV and APC, like BMP-2/3 and/or Bradley.. etc.. survive against a well-placed pre-aimed 85mm round from a concealed T-34.
> 
> Period.
> 
> Edit: I think people would prefer to stay inside a tank with 85mm gun, rather than staying outside against enemy armored vehicles with a 7.62mm assault rifle.



85mm? Oh that's even better, I had read in wiki that it was 76mm, maybe an earlier version. And 45mm armor in most places is not bad at all.



Silent Knight said:


> So let me translate this for you, in case you don't understand.



Even with translation she is a bit hard headed. Don't expect results.


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## Reashot Xigwin

BoQ77 said:


> I suggest you stop talking about T-34 vs this or that here. And recommend that you start the thread with that title.
> That provide you more room to argue and save us some pages for news and pictures.
> Thanks



Will do boss

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The problem with your doctrine is that it rely too much on circumstances. In an outright fight 9/10 the bradley will win every engagement against an older T-series tank. Ask Saddam.
> 
> (Last T-34 post I swear)



The problem is, unlike Iraq, Vietnam is not a desert, ask General Giap.



BoQ77 said:


> I suggest you stop talking about T-34 vs this or that here. And recommend that you start the thread with that title.
> That provide you more room to argue and save us some pages for news and pictures.
> Thanks



I'm done boss.

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## Farhan Bohra

Wet Shirt Contest said:


> bit off topic, is NAMICA an indian tank destroyer ? is there any thread in PDF i can look into, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by this logic all IFV and BMP's are useless, AMX is only good as far it can see "unhindered" , T34 are known to be nimble & agile who performed exceptional in muddy and dense Terran, they can dig up well camouflaged positions and land the first strike. both chinese and USA underestimated Vietnam and payed the price.


You find the details from here 
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2016/02/s-2arihant-ssbn-showcased-in-ifr-2016.html








madokafc said:


> i would like to see how far T34 and Su 100 of Vn army can managed to survive after being hit with cheap RPG, let alone the more modern RPG29 or NLAW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh sure it is an excellent tank destroyer
> 
> this thin little can had proved their value against the supposed superior T54/55 in Six day War


Seriously? And it was not Centurion that pitted against T-55?

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## Viet

*FEATURES*
*How ground troops are trained in Vietnam *

TUOI TRE NEWS
UPDATED : 08/27/2016 06:27 GMT + 7








*All soldiers in the Vietnam People’s Ground Force are faced with several years of hard work and intense trainings before they can secure a spot in the military unit.*


Located in Bien Hoa City in the southern province of Dong Nai, Nguyen Hue University, under the management of the Ministry of National Defense, is the long-time training center for ground troop candidates in southern Vietnam.

The schools top graduates move on to new missions following several years of challenging and demanding training.

Lieutenant Pham Van Ngan, one of the outstanding senior students at the academy, recounted his fear of midnight sirens during his first days as a trainee.

“The warning sound was a way to forge the soldiers’ agility, patience, and perseverance. We were required to be in uniform and ready to go in the swiftest and most unified manner possible,” Lt. Ngan said.

The drill has become an instant reaction to the solider whenever he hears the siren. “It has become a natural reflect for us, he said.”

Aside from compliance with strict regulations and disciplinary measures, the trainees are also required to undergo strenuous exercise to sharpen their endurance and will, according to Lt. Ngan.

The soldiers were ordered to balance themselves on one leg before switching to the other every three minutes. The exercise repeated for an entire hour.

“We could not even lift our legs as we climbed onto our bed after the workout,” the lieutenant recalled as he giggled.

Students who majored as infantry scouts were also trained on crossing extreme terrains, breaking into buildings, and disarming traps and bombs, he added.


*Marching is a ‘specialty’*

According to many foot soldiers, marching is the most memorable experience from training.

Lieutenant Le Van Tung, another trainee with excellent performance, recounted that he and his teammates sometimes had to walk for two hours without resting.

“We were ordered to march along rough and muddy paths in the middle of the night with heavy baggage on our backs. No one was allowed to fall out of line for fear they might get lost,” Lt. Tung stated.

Despite the pain and hard work, excitement ran high throughout the training course, he continued.

Tung considered his tactic course the most challenging subject during his training and all candidates were required to pass the course in order to graduate.

According to Colonel Pham Ngoc Chung, a lecturer at the university with 12 years of experience, tactical lessons are the primary focus of the school, as they determine the quality of graduates following their study.

“The students are evaluated based on their leadership and skills with weaponry. They are trained with real guns and bullets under all conditions and need serious determination to pass the course,” Col. Chung assessed.

Digging tunnels and camouflaging are also thought to be physically demanding to the foot soldiers, the military colonel said, adding that instructors at the academy are strict in their judgment.


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## BoQ77

This guy could handle subs and sea mines quite well.
-----------------------------
Song Thu Company completes Tran Dai Nghia ship
PANO - Saturday, November 26, 2011, 20:18 (GMT+7) 

PANO – The Song Thu One-member Co. Ltd., under the General Department of National Defence Industry, yesterday handed over the HSV- 6613 ( HQ-888 ) oceanographic ship named after the Professor and Academician, Tran Dai Nghia, to the Navy Arm in Da Nang City.

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## Carlosa

Latest pic of the reclamation at Spratly island


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## Silent Knight

A new model of Vietnamese indigenous UAV has appeared. It's called "UAV-04".

Its main purpose is flying target for Su-30MK2V and S-300PMU-2. However, it can be fitted with several reconnaissance equipment (Luneberg lens, Synthetic Aperture Radar, Imaging Camera etc.) and even a warhead. So it can be a suicide UAV or mini cruise missile, you name it.

The range is 300km+, max speed 250kph, flight endurance up to 5 hours and flight ceiling is 4km.

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## MacanJawa

Silent Knight said:


> A new model of Vietnamese indigenous UAV has appeared. It's called "UAV-04".
> 
> Its main purpose is flying target for Su-30MK2V and S-300PMU-2. However, it can be fitted with several reconnaissance equipment (Luneberg lens, Synthetic Aperture Radar, Imaging Camera etc.) and even a warhead. So it can be a suicide UAV or mini cruise missile, you name it.
> 
> The range is 300km+, max speed 250kph, flight endurance up to 5 hours and flight ceiling is 4km.


i see a lot photo with comcom tag, who is he? a military reporter?


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## Silent Knight

MacanJawa said:


> i see a lot photo with comcom tag, who is he? a military reporter?


Just think of them as the unofficial news agency of the Vietnamese Armed Forces.

Basically, ComCom is a group of people that have personal access to restricted military facilities/bases and can publish several information that the official military news agency (QĐND Online or QPVN) cannot show.

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## vtnsx

Silent Knight said:


> Just think of them as the unofficial news agency of the Vietnamese Armed Forces.
> 
> Basically, ComCom is a group of people that have personal access to restricted military facilities/bases and can publish several information that the official military news agency (QĐND Online or QPVN) cannot show.



Sup dawg! You da man


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## Viet

If Japanese decide to do a thing, no matter what it is, they usually take it seriously, doing it by heart and mind, leaving no half baked, sometimes until the bitter end. Alsok, a Japanese security company enters Vietnam security market with the aim providing security services vietnamese companies and local government agencies. Especially interesting for the latter.

Martial arts at Alsok

















Business

*Japan's Alsok gaining foothold in Vietnam’s security sector*
By Thanh Nien News - Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:13

Japanese security provider Alsok is set to become a key member in Vietnam’s security industry by investing in the country’s number four player.

Nikkei Asian Review cited sources as saying that the company has decided to buy a 49 percent stake, the limit of foreign ownership in Vietnam, in Royal Hai Phong Security Service in the northern city of Hai Phong.

Alsok, officially known as Sohgo Security Services, opened a subsidiary in Vietnam in 2009 and has been selling security equipment to Japanese companies operating in the country.

The new one billion yen (US$9.75 million) deal is expected to raise the company’s annual revenue to around $10 million, in line with the income for local top security companies in Vietnam.

Alsok plans to put 1,800 security guards at the Hai Phong company through a training program developed in Japan. In the long term, it plans to provide services to Vietnamese companies and local government agencies as well, the sources said.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Latest pic of the reclamation at Spratly island
> 
> View attachment 329379


If comparing to the last time, when the picture was taken, one can see some progress here and there is made, but the pace is very slow. while the chinese rapidly create facts on the ground by pulling up artificial islands after islands, our progress is very disappointing.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> If comparing to the last time, when the picture was taken, one can see some progress here and there is made, but the pace is very slow. while the chinese rapidly create facts on the ground by pulling up artificial islands after islands, our progress is very disappointing.



The chinese do it fast by recking the environment in a major way.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The chinese do it fast by recking the environment in a major way.


Sometimes we need to choose.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> A new model of Vietnamese indigenous UAV has appeared. It's called "UAV-04".
> 
> Its main purpose is flying target for Su-30MK2V and S-300PMU-2. However, it can be fitted with several reconnaissance equipment (Luneberg lens, Synthetic Aperture Radar, Imaging Camera etc.) and even a warhead. So it can be a suicide UAV or mini cruise missile, you name it.
> 
> The range is 300km+, max speed 250kph, flight endurance up to 5 hours and flight ceiling is 4km.



What company makes this drone? Viettel?


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## Viet

By Phuong Hoa, Nguyen Quang 

Vietnam People’s Navy has built a park named after Vo Nguyen Giap with a statue of the famous general in its Son Ca Island in the Spratly Archipelago.







Construction at the 400-square meter park was completed on May 15. The project is to honor General Giap, who was the key contributor to liberalization of the Son Ca in April 1975.






The idea about the project was first raised by artist Nguyen Thu Thuy and was approved by the Vietnam People’s Navy.






The park was built by soldiers in two months. At its center stands the statue of the general, which is 1.76 meters tall. Behind the statue is a wall that is 24 meters long and 2.5 meters high.







The 2.5 ton statue is made of stone.






There are 300 pictures crafted in baked clay on the wall featuring General Giap’s life, from 1944 when he established the Armed Propaganda Unit for National Liberation till his well-known battles.






On the left of the wall are pictures of Vo Nguyen Giap and President Ho Chi Minh with the Vietnam People’s Navy.






Vo Hong Nam, the General's son, before his father’s statue. “My family is deeply touched by the respect of naval officers and soldiers towards the General. This feeling cannot be expressed in words,” he said.






“This will be a place to uphold the good tradition and strong will among the people and armed forces during the course of construction and defense of the nation,” said Rear Admiral Ngo Sy Quyet at the opening ceremony.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Just think of them as the unofficial news agency of the Vietnamese Armed Forces.
> 
> Basically, ComCom is a group of people that have personal access to restricted military facilities/bases and can publish several information that the official military news agency (QĐND Online or QPVN) cannot show.


We have heard since a time the army is interested of the French made howitzer Nexter Caesar 155 mm. 108 pieces should be acquired. Have you any update on the acquisition and what is the logic behind going for NATO 155 mm artillery shells?

That would represent an additional logistic as the army today uses 152 mm artillery rounds.

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## BoQ77

*Understanding Vietnam's rocket launcher deployment in the Spratlys*
Le Hong Hiep For The Straits Times
Published
Aug 17, 2016, 5:00 am SGT

Last week, international media widely reported that Vietnam had quietly deployed an unknown number of Extended Range Artillery (Extra) rocket launchers on five features in the Spratlys. These state-of-the-art mobile rocket artillery systems are reportedly capable of striking runways and military installations on nearby artificial islands built by China recently.

Although Vietnam's Foreign Ministry dismissed the information as "inaccurate", its Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh had stated in June this year that Hanoi reserved the right to deploy such weapons for self-defence purposes.

This development testifies to the fact that the temperature in the South China Sea is rising, and claimant states risk being pushed into military escalations that may eventually undermine regional peace and stability.

That said, Vietnam's deployment of the rocket launchers should not come as a surprise. Instead, it is a logical development, given the recent trajectory of the South China Sea dispute.

First, in order to better protect its interests in the South China Sea, Vietnam has pursued a military modernisation programme for some time. For example, according to statistics by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, Vietnam's total arms imports during 2011-2015 represented a 699 per cent increase from 2006-2010, turning the country into the eighth-largest arms importer in the world during the same period. Most of the newly acquired weapons and equipment are related to maritime capabilities.

The Extra rocket launchers that Vietnam deployed to the Spratlys are known to be imported from Israel, one of the emerging defence partners of Vietnam. They contribute to Hanoi's efforts to build up a credible level of deterrence against possible attacks on the features in Spratlys currently under its control.

In that sense, the report is not necessarily a bad thing for Vietnam. In order to ensure effective deterrence, apart from developing credible capabilities to impose costs, one also needs to make such capabilities known to the rival it wants to deter. Hence, the *reported deployment of rocket launchers can help Hanoi convey a message, especially to Beijing, about not only Vietnam's available capabilities, but also its political determination to protect its South China Sea interests.*





A Vietnam Marine Police boat (foreground) in the South China Sea observing a Chinese Coast Guard ship about 200km off the Vietnamese coast in 2014. The two countries saw a rise in tensions that year, after China moved an oil drilling platform close to Vietnam's central coast. PHOTO: REUTERS
Second, from Hanoi's perspective, the deployment is not a provocative or escalatory move. Instead, it is seen as a necessary defensive reaction to offset threats recently initiated by Beijing in the South China Sea. In particular, the oil rig crisis in 2014 when China moved its Haiyang Shiyou 981 oil drilling platform to 119 nautical miles off Vietnam's central coast, and China's construction and militarisation of seven artificial islands in the Spratlys, have acutely alerted Vietnam about China's strategic intentions as well as Vietnam's vulnerabilities in the South China Sea. Strong yet well-calibrated responses are therefore warranted to better protect its interests there.

While the exact timing of the deployment is unknown, it possibly took place well before the news was broken last week. Indeed, some sources indicated that Hanoi might have started considering the deployment as early as May last year, when there were reports of China's deployment of mobile artillery vehicles on one of its artificial islands. In any case, the rising level of perceived threats emanating from China's recent militarisation of its artificial islands obviously further encourages Hanoi to offer a strong response.

From a historical point of view, the deployment reflects the broader pattern of Vietnam's traditional China policy, one that combines deference and defiance elements.

As the junior partner in the relationship, Vietnam has always been keen to maintain peaceful and stable ties with Beijing. In the pre-modern era, it was also willing to offer deference to China by joining the China-centred tributary system. However, Vietnam was also willing to stand up to China on various occasions when its sovereignty, autonomy and territorial integrity were infringed upon.

In more recent decades, overall Vietnam-China relations have improved significantly, but territorial and maritime disputes in the South China Sea continue to be a major challenge for both countries. However, the unprecedented level of bilateral economic exchanges helps to keep the two countries from falling out with each other.

Specifically, China is now Vietnam's largest trade partner, accounting for about one fifth of Vietnam's annual total trade. China is also the ninth-largest foreign investor in Vietnam. Therefore, while Vietnam tends to act tough to protect its maritime interests, it is unwilling to allow the South China Sea disputes to escalate into an armed conflict that will doom the broader interests brought about by relations with China.

In sum, Vietnam's deployment of the rocket launchers in the Spratlys should be seen in the broader context of recent transformations in the South China Sea dispute, as well as Vietnam's traditional handling of China.

The move, mainly for defensive purpose, should not generate concerns among regional countries. To be sure, a military conflict with a far more powerful China is the last thing Vietnam would like to stumble into.


*Le Hong Hiep is a fellow at the Iseas - Yusof Ishak Institute.*


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## MacanJawa

Viet said:


> We have heard since a time the army is interested of the French made howitzer Nexter Caesar 155 mm. 108 pieces should be acquired. Have you any update on the acquisition and what is the logic behind going for NATO 155 mm artillery shells?
> 
> That would represent an additional logistic as the army today uses 152 mm artillery rounds.


108 unit? Wooowwww that's lot..
Why not buy msta, or gvodzika ? It's has 152mm and compatible with existing munitions,


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> 108 unit? Wooowwww that's lot..
> Why not buy msta, or gvodzika ? It's has 152mm and compatible with existing munitions,


Vietnam army using 152 mm artilery rounds goes back to the time of the Vietnam war. Soviet 152 mm caliber.
I guess we go for 155 mm because we want more range, more firepower, more adaption of NATO standard ammunitions as we have seen the development with other calibres of NATO since a while. Using other 152 mm howitzers would not alter much to the ones the army uses today. I don´t know maybe one day Vietnam applies for NATO membership.


Vietnam 152 mm howitzer live fire execise

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## Viet

Long range surface-to-air missile S-300 with *acquisition radar 30N6E* capable to detect 100 aerial targets at a distance of 300km at a altitude of 30 km. in addition, a powerful early warning radar 96L6E supplements the system, cable of detecting 300 aerial targets at any given time. a news says the army can produce and repair some parts of the system inlcuding radar modules. maybe we could soon manufacture a vietnam made version of acquisition radar 30N6E.


Vietnam S-300 surface-to-air missile



























acquisition radar 30N6E

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## William Hung

MacanJawa said:


> i see a lot photo with comcom tag, who is he? a military reporter?



comcom is the hashtag for the title of their webpage, it is short for “comrade commissar”. What is its meaning? just look up the meaning of the word “commissar”:


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/commissar



> Com·mis·sar (kŏm′ĭ-sär′)
> 
> n.
> 1.
> a. An official of the Communist Party in charge of political indoctrination and the enforcement of party loyalty.
> 
> b. The head of a commissariat in the Soviet Union until 1946.
> 
> 2. A person who tries to control public opinion.




If that is not clear enough, the slogan of comcom webpage also start with:

“To promote the patriotism for the youth...”

If you want the direct link to that page, i can give it to you. I personally am not fond of it though.


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## Viet

a domestic improved S-75M3 surface to air missile








anti tank rocket 9M14 Malyutka for MBP-1 tank

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## Silent Knight

The model in frame is possibly the new DN-4000 class OPV for Vietnam Coast Guard.

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## Carlosa

*PM Narendra Modi’s Vietnam visit is to signal India’s presence in South-East Asia*
By Dipanjan Roy Chaudhury, ET Bureau | Aug 29, 2016

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...e-in-south-east-asia/articleshow/53903141.cms

NEW DELHI: Narendra Modi's to visit Vietnam on September 3 enroute to China for the G-20 Summit signaling India's growing strategic presence in South East Asia in Beijing's periphery. Delhi is expected to offer additional support to Hanoi's military establishment, including finance and training, assistance to space sector, greater investments besides acquiring possible stakes in supplementary hydrocarbon blocks. 

While the highlight of PM's day-long visit will be signing of contract for supply of four patrol boats to Vietnamese military under the $100 -million line of credit that was extended during its PM's India visit in October 2014, India could offer additional financial support in building capacity of Hanoi's military establishment and may increase quota for training of armed forces personnel and undertake further repair and maintenance of defence hardware, hinted persons familiar with the developments. India's support to Vietnam's defence sector is aimed at augmenting capacity of the Southeast Asian nation's military establishment. 

Vietnam — the current country coordinator for India in the ASEAN -- has an expanding strategic partnership with India in the region in more than one way. Today, Hanoi besides Singapore is among the two top strategic partners in ASEAN. While the growing defence partnership --based on common Russian military platform — has captured the popular imagination, maritime and cyber security covers the other areas of security cooperation, hinted official sources. A key outcome of the visit could be a document on cyber security partnership. 

Built on the bonhomie of the Cold War era when India extended emotional and moral support to the forces fighting American military, Delhi and Hanoi have drawn closer to each other over the past decade amid China's growing aggression and ambitions in SE Asia including South China Sea (SCS) region. That he chose to visit Vietnam, a claimant in SCS, ahead of China and later Laos for East and ASEAN Summits itself has a symbolic significance. 

Experts of India-Vietnam affairs, however, point out that both sides prefer to keep key strands of the strategic partnership under wraps to avoid reaction from Beijing. While India is not militarily active in South China Sea (SCS) region and advocates peaceful resolution, Delhi has asserted that it favours rules based global order based on UNCLOS and against unilateral actions after the Arbitration Court in Hague on July 12 dismissed Beijing's historical claims in SCS in a case vis a vis Philippines. 

India has been advocating Freedom of Navigation in international waters including SCS --key sea lane of communication for substantial part of India's global trade. It may be recalled Vietnam is the only country in the region whose military has experience of fighting China in late 1970s, 1980s and again in mid 1990s over territorial matters including claims in SCS.

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## Viet

Miss Nguyen Thi Huyen, a showbiz beauty visits Spratlys

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## Viet

Far from home


































Paying tribute for soldiers who were killed by the chinese on Gac Ma Island.

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## BoQ77

Nguyen Thi Huyen is a Haiphong-born Miss of Vietnam.
If you study more, you would find that most of brave Captain of Vietnam Navy, CG, ... are Haiphong-born

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Nguyen Thi Huyen is a Haiphong-born Miss of Vietnam.
> If you study more, you would find that most of brave Captain of Vietnam Navy, CG, ... are Haiphong-born


Come on what is your point, Haiphong girls are most beautiful? Saigon girls may have the opposite view. Haiphong may produce the most captains but Nghe An is the political heart where many top politicians come from.

By the way, there is a saying, most beautiful girls come from Can Tho


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## Carlosa

DHC-6 Twin Otter visiting Spratly island


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam might soon announce its approval for BrahMos*

*BrahMos Missile Sale to Vietnam will Boost India’s role in Fight against China*
*By* Arthur Dominic Villasanta | Aug 28, 2016

http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/...ale-vietnam-will-boost-india-s-role-fight.htm







India is poised to leverage Vietnam's upcoming purchase of its BrahMos supersonic cruise missile -- the fastest in the world -- into a strategic advantage that will make it a major player in the maritime crisis pitting China against practically all of Asia.

American sources *say Vietnam might soon announce its approval of a deal to purchase an undetermined number of anti-ship BrahMos missile systems to be mounted on warships of the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN). China is strongly opposed to the deal.*

Vietnam has had its eye on BrahMos for the past five years but was constantly rebuffed in its efforts to acquire the missile by the government of former Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that was wary of offending China.

Singh's successor, Narendra Modi, however, has made the strategic decision standing up to China is in India's best interests and approved the sale of BrahMos last June. Vietnam's communist government has apparently approved the purchase and now only has to reveal it to the public.

Experts said the ship-based BrahMos missile system will arm the VPN's two Russian-made Gepard 3.9-class frigates, its most modern. Two more Gepards are under construction while two more are planned. The Gepards are currently armed with Russian-made Kh-35 Uran-E anti-ship missiles. BrahMos might also be mounted on some of the VPN's 11 corvettes.

The VPN's main weapon against the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), however, are its five Improved Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines made in Russia.

Analysts surmise India might cultivate an alliance with Vietnam to counterbalance China, which is increasingly encroaching on the Indian Ocean. Closer military ties between Vietnam and India might not be opposed by Russia, the main military supplier of both nations.

These ties, however, might complicate or derail Moscow's growing military partnership with China. Whichever outcome will favor India, which is also contending with increasing Chinese assertiveness along the disputed Line of Actual Control, the 4,000 kilometer-long border dividing both countries on the Asian mainland.

India is also angered at China's military assistance to arch-rival Pakistan and was alarmed when Chinese submarines docked at Sri Lanka just off the coast of India.

BrahMos was developed by BrahMos Aerospace, a joint venture between Russia's NPO Mashinostroeyenia and India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO)

BrahMos is based on the Russian P-800 Oniks cruise missile. The name BrahMos is derived from the names of two rivers, the Brahmaputra in India and the Moskva in Russia.

India has also been strengthening its military ties with Vietnam. It's supplying Vietnam with offshore patrol boats under a $100 million credit line, its largest overseas military aid package yet.

By pushing international sales of the sought after BrahMos, India is effectively thumbing its nose at China, which warned India the sale of the missiles to China's enemies is "destabilizing."

Modi has ordered BrahMos Aerospace, which produces the missiles, to speed-up sales to a list of five countries topped by Vietnam. The others countries in the list are Indonesia, South Africa, Chile and Brazil. Indonesia is also involved in the squabble over the South China Sea.

"Policymakers in Delhi were long constrained by the belief that advanced defense cooperation with Washington or Hanoi could provoke aggressive and undesirable responses from Beijing," said Jeff Smith, Director of Asian Security Programs at the American Foreign Policy Council in Washington.

"Prime Minister Modi and his team of advisers have essentially turned that thinking on its head, concluding that stronger defense relationships with the U.S., Japan, and Vietnam actually put India on stronger footing in its dealings with China."

Courtesy of ahok321, Indian forum https://defence.pk/threads/vietnam-might-soon-announce-its-approval-for-brahmos.446458/

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## Carlosa

This is what was said in the Indian thread by a man that has insider information (Parikrama). This would be one hell of a modification for the Gepard, but oh well......

*"What i understand is it will be first a combination for Brahmos and Kh35 UranE for the boats The missiles will have a mix of AshM and LACM."

He also said:
folks in Vietnam government had informally requested for a modified Block III but actually its known as Block IV as per developmental block chart for India. Its a LACM variant with steep dive, GPS, GLONASS, IRNSS capable with a surround capability to hit post steep diving to well protected deep sites . In simple words, its designed for bases where HV stuff is much deeper inside and protected by natural formations be it mountain or a submarine base. This one is a true blue 550 km+ in Hi-Med profile and a overall 600 km above in all hi hi flight path.

Unfortunately, owing to MTCR restrictions i dont think this will be accepted. On top, Block IV planned production and deployments is already tied up with IA for some good time.

You folks might get Brahmos -A the air launched version for Su 30 MK2s instead of the requested LACM. That will be more easier.

It all will depend over time and success of Brahmos A launch test (twin for land and moving ship) later this year.
*

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/vietnam-...roval-for-brahmos.446458/page-2#ixzz4Ii0HkdFf

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## Silent Knight

I'm not looking forward to the air-launched and surface-launched BrahMos. We have other plans for the Su-30MK2V and surface ships.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> I'm not looking forward to the air-launched and surface-launched BrahMos. We have other plans for the Su-30MK2V and surface ships.



Its all quite strange, but the thing about adding the missiles to the Gepard would be quite amazing, but the thing is, this guy does have insider information, he is very well known for that. Some things can be his opinion, but when he is talking about what he heard, that should be quite credible, we'll see.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> This is what was said in the Indian thread by a man that has insider information (Parikrama). This would be one hell of a modification for the Gepard, but oh well......
> 
> *"What i understand is it will be first a combination for Brahmos and Kh35 UranE for the boats The missiles will have a mix of AshM and LACM."
> 
> He also said:
> folks in Vietnam government had informally requested for a modified Block III but actually its known as Block IV as per developmental block chart for India. Its a LACM variant with steep dive, GPS, GLONASS, IRNSS capable with a surround capability to hit post steep diving to well protected deep sites . In simple words, its designed for bases where HV stuff is much deeper inside and protected by natural formations be it mountain or a submarine base. This one is a true blue 550 km+ in Hi-Med profile and a overall 600 km above in all hi hi flight path.
> 
> Unfortunately, owing to MTCR restrictions i dont think this will be accepted. On top, Block IV planned production and deployments is already tied up with IA for some good time.
> 
> You folks might get Brahmos -A the air launched version for Su 30 MK2s instead of the requested LACM. That will be more easier.
> 
> It all will depend over time and success of Brahmos A launch test (twin for land and moving ship) later this year.
> *
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/vietnam-...roval-for-brahmos.446458/page-2#ixzz4Ii0HkdFf


MTCR restrictions are voluntary. moreover, the agreement is not a treaty and does not impose any legally binding obligations on Partners (members). Rather, it is an informal political understanding among states that seek to limit the proliferation of missiles and missile technology. In theory India can export long range brahmos and ballistic missiles to Vietnam. but to get both Kh-35 and brahmos on Gepard we will need to modify and enlarge the body of the ship a bit, I believe.

http://www.mtcr.info/english/FAQ-E.html



Silent Knight said:


> I'm not looking forward to the air-launched and surface-launched BrahMos. We have other plans for the Su-30MK2V and surface ships.


come on, can you reveal more. brahmos on Su-30 bomber and on the new mystery 4,000 tons warship waiting for approval?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> MTCR restrictions are voluntary. moreover, the agreement is not a treaty and does not impose any legally binding obligations on Partners (members). Rather, it is an informal political understanding among states that seek to limit the proliferation of missiles and missile technology. In theory India can export long range brahmos and ballistic missiles to Vietnam. but to get both Kh-35 and brahmos on Gepard we will need to modify and enlarge the body of the ship a bit, I believe.
> 
> http://www.mtcr.info/english/FAQ-E.html
> 
> 
> come on, can you reveal more. brahmos on Su-30 bomber and on the new mystery 4,000 tons warship waiting for approval?



Adding a Brahmos VLS to an existing Gepard is one hell of a modification, I'm not sure about that.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Adding a Brahmos VLS to an existing Gepard is one hell of a modification, I'm not sure about that.
> View attachment 329832
> View attachment 329833
> View attachment 329834
> View attachment 329835


I think it is unpractical, time consuming and expensive to modify the existing 4 Gepards, adding Brahmos. I am pretty sure the next 2 Gepard will carry Kalibr. The best way for the Navy is to get ToT from the bear (negotiation may be challenging), building the ships we need at our shipyards. The new Ba Son should be capable to build the Gepard. Once we have access to technology and acquire capability, modifying and enlarging gepard for Brahmos could be done.

We need more surface warships. More frigates and hopefully soon destroyers.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> This is what was said in the Indian thread by a man that has insider information (Parikrama). This would be one hell of a modification for the Gepard, but oh well......
> 
> *"What i understand is it will be first a combination for Brahmos and Kh35 UranE for the boats The missiles will have a mix of AshM and LACM."
> 
> He also said:
> folks in Vietnam government had informally requested for a modified Block III but actually its known as Block IV as per developmental block chart for India. Its a LACM variant with steep dive, GPS, GLONASS, IRNSS capable with a surround capability to hit post steep diving to well protected deep sites . In simple words, its designed for bases where HV stuff is much deeper inside and protected by natural formations be it mountain or a submarine base. This one is a true blue 550 km+ in Hi-Med profile and a overall 600 km above in all hi hi flight path.
> 
> Unfortunately, owing to MTCR restrictions i dont think this will be accepted. On top, Block IV planned production and deployments is already tied up with IA for some good time.
> 
> You folks might get Brahmos -A the air launched version for Su 30 MK2s instead of the requested LACM. That will be more easier.
> 
> It all will depend over time and success of Brahmos A launch test (twin for land and moving ship) later this year.
> *
> 
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/vietnam-...roval-for-brahmos.446458/page-2#ixzz4Ii0HkdFf


One need to understand, MTCR is just a regime, not a treaty.

Soon lot of strategic things going to sign, and I think including MRBM, Military standard navigation, Sharing of SOSUS data, launching military standard communication sats and early warning sat( IR based ) for ballistic missile launch.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> One need to understand, MTCR is just a regime, not a treaty.
> 
> Soon lot of strategic things going to sign, and I think including MRBM.



You mean MRBM for Vietnam?



Viet said:


> I think it is unpractical, time consuming and expensive to modify the existing 4 Gepards, adding Brahmos. I am pretty sure the next 2 Gepard will carry Kalibr. The best way for the Navy is to get ToT from the bear (negotiation may be challenging), building the ships we need at our shipyards. The new Ba Son should be capable to build the Gepard. Once we have access to technology and acquire capability, modifying and enlarging gepard for Brahmos could be done.
> 
> We need more surface warships. More frigates and hopefully soon destroyers.



Well, if Brahmos will get added to the existing Gepards while keeping the Urans, then I'm pretty sure how it will be done. The Palma will get replaced by the Brahmos VLS and the Palma can go to the back to replace one of the AK-630s. The other AK-630 can be replaced with a brand new Palma. That will leave an air defense blind spot at the front of the ship. This will cost some money, but it can be done. Labor is cheap in Vietnam after all.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> You mean MRBM for Vietnam?


Obviously, Vietnam very much want MRBM as China also deployed MRBM against Vietnam, Taiwan and Philippines. 

Two missiles are offered to Vietnam, one by Israel ( Jericho-2 ) and other by India (A4).

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Obviously, Vietnam very much want MRBM as China also deployed MRBM against Vietnam, Taiwan and Philippines.
> 
> Two missiles are offered to Vietnam, one by Israel ( Jericho-2 ) and other by India (A4).



Agni 4? Are you sure that's actually in the cards? Did you get that from reliable sources?


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Agni 4? Are you sure that's actually in the cards? Did you get that from reliable sources?


A3 or A4, yes thats on card. Otherwise, if that not, Vietnam surely go for Jericho-2. 101% sure.

Surely no one tell from where that missile arrived, but you soon see Vietnam testing a MRBM.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> A3 or A4, yes thats on card. Otherwise, if that not, Vietnam surely go for Jericho-2. 101% sure.
> 
> Surely no one tell from where that missile arrived, but you soon see Vietnam testing a MRBM.



Wow, that's great news. Beijing and Shanghai in Vietnam's crosshairs. I love it.

Bravo India

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Wow, that's great news. Beijing and Shanghai in Vietnam's crosshairs. I love it.
> 
> Bravo India


Most probably I think Vietnam induct Jericho 2. As that is already canisterized.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think it is unpractical, time consuming and expensive to modify the existing 4 Gepards, adding Brahmos. I am pretty sure the next 2 Gepard will carry Kalibr. The best way for the Navy is to get ToT from the bear (negotiation may be challenging), building the ships we need at our shipyards. The new Ba Son should be capable to build the Gepard. Once we have access to technology and acquire capability, modifying and enlarging gepard for Brahmos could be done.
> 
> We need more surface warships. More frigates and hopefully soon destroyers.



There is one reason that makes it practical actually and that is that things are getting hot in the SCS and if you have to wait for a new ship, specially Russian, then you are talking 4 or 5 years. The ship modification can probably be done in a few months.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Obviously, Vietnam very much want MRBM as China also deployed MRBM against Vietnam, Taiwan and Philippines.
> 
> Two missiles are offered to Vietnam, one by Israel ( Jericho-2 ) and other by India (A4).


China deploying BMs against Vietnam is not a secret. I remember the chinese even bragged about it. a side note, General Ngo Xuan Lich, in his function as Vietnam defence minister is on a 4-day visit to China, expected holding talks with China Central Military Commission. the body that commands Chinese armed forces.

we need to ask the Chinese about their real intentions in the South China sea and in the region. nobody buys their peaceful rise empty rhetoric.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Most probably I think Vietnam induct Jericho 2. As that is already canisterized.



*Jericho II*

The *Jericho II* is a solid fuel, two-stage long-range ballistic missile system and a follow on from the Jericho I project.

There was a series of test launches into the Mediterranean from 1987 to 1992, the longest at around 1,300 km, mostly from the facility at Palmachim, south of Tel Aviv. Jane's reports that a test launch of 1,400 km is believed to have taken place from South Africa's Overberg Test Range in June 1989.[16]

The Jericho II is 14.0 m long and 1.56 m wide, with a reported launch weight of 26,000 kg (although an alternative launch weight of 21,935 kg has been suggested). It has a 1,000 kg payload, capable of carrying a considerable amount of high explosives or a 1 Mt yield nuclear warhead. It uses a two-stage solid propellant engine with a separating warhead. The missile can be launched from a silo, a railroad flat truck, or a mobile vehicle. This gives it the ability to be hidden, moved quickly, or kept in a hardened silo, largely ensuring survival against any attack.[17]

The Jericho II forms the basis of the three-stage, 23 ton Shavit NEXT satellite launcher, first launched in 1988 from Palmachim. From the performance of Shavit it has been estimated that as a ballistic missile it has a maximum range of about 7,800 km with a 500 kg payload.[7]

Some reports claim there are two separate missile systems under development, the Jericho 2 with a 800 km range and the Jericho 2B with an extended 1,500 km range. The range of this missile is frequently reported as about 1,500 km with a 1,000 kg payload, but other estimates suggest that it is capable of a much longer range.

The Jericho II as an available Israeli counter attack option to Iraqi missile bombardment in the 1991 Gulf War is disputed. Jane's at the time believed that Jericho II entered service in 1989.[18] Researcher Seth Carus claims that according to an Israeli source the decision to operationally deploy the Jericho-2 was only made after 1994, several years after the Scud attacks had ended and a cease fire and disarmament regime were in place.[19] Raytheon quoting Soviet intelligence archives showing them believing the Jericho-2 as an fully developed weapon in 1989, but did not indicate when it was available for deployment.[20] Investigators for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace accessed commercial satellite images of the Sdot Micha Airbase near Zachariah, a suspected Jericho missile base, comparison shows expansion between 1989 and 1993 of the type which would accommodate suspected Jericho II launchers and missiles.[21] Such an expansion would be more consistent with a post-1991 deployment chronology.


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## Viet

*Vietnam, France to strike major deals during Hollande’s visit*
_Vietnam and France will clinched a number of important agreements during French President Francois Hollande’s State visit to Vietnam from September 5 to 7._

Last update 18:39 | 26/08/2016

_




_


The French embassy in Hanoi said in a statement on August 25 that Hollande would meet Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, State President Tran Dai Quang, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, and National Assembly Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan.

Hollande will deliver a speech on orientations of cooperation between Vietnam and France at the Vietnam National University in Hanoi, and meet Vietnamese and French businesses in HCMC. He is expected to attend the groundbreaking ceremony of a new French school called Alexandre Yersin in the capital city and visit the Heart Institute in HCMC.

Major agreements to be signed during Hollande’s Vietnam visit will cover judiciary, healthcare, scientific and educational cooperation and technical assistance for adaptation to climate change.

Hollande will be the third French president to visit Vietnam after Francois Mitterrand in 1993 and Jacques Chirac in 1997 and 2004.

In an interview with the French news agency AFP ahead of Hollande’s visit to Vietnam, Vietnam’s State President Tran Dai Quang said defense cooperation has become one of the pillars in the strategic partnership between Vietnam and France and will be strengthened in the coming time.

*Vietnam-France defence cooperation*

Quang underscored the need for the two countries to build a common vision on defense cooperation to make it more effective, according to the Vietnam News Agency.

Quang said Vietnam and France can support each other for United Nations peacekeeping missions; ensuring security, safety and freedom of navigation and overflight; and solving issues relating to cyber security and non-conventional security issues.

He affirmed Vietnam’s backing for France to play an active and constructive role in protecting the common interests of the international community, and that Vietnam is willing to cooperate with France in numerous fields for peace, stability and cooperation. He said the historic Vietnam visit by President Francois Mitterrand in 1993 set an important milestone in bilateral ties.

In 2013, Vietnam and France issued a joint statement on establishing a strategic partnership, paving the way for the two countries to make many achievements in politics, diplomacy, economics, trade, investment, science, technology, culture and education.

France is Vietnam’s fifth biggest European Union (EU) trade partner and one of the key official development assistance (ODA) donors for this Southeast Asian country.

France’s exports to France rose to 1.4 billion euros last year from 764 million euros in 2014. The European country spent 4.1 billion euros on imports from Vietnam last year, up 32.8% year-on-year.

France is Vietnam’s third biggest EU investor with registered capital of US$3.4 billion after the Netherlands and the UK. Nearly 300 French firms are active in Vietnam.

Vietnam and France have inked many necessary legal documents to expand cooperation, including those on economic cooperation, investment encouragement and protection, and double avoidance of taxation.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> *Jericho II*
> 
> The *Jericho II* is a solid fuel, two-stage long-range ballistic missile system and a follow on from the Jericho I project.
> 
> There was a series of test launches into the Mediterranean from 1987 to 1992, the longest at around 1,300 km, mostly from the facility at Palmachim, south of Tel Aviv. Jane's reports that a test launch of 1,400 km is believed to have taken place from South Africa's Overberg Test Range in June 1989.[16]
> 
> The Jericho II is 14.0 m long and 1.56 m wide, with a reported launch weight of 26,000 kg (although an alternative launch weight of 21,935 kg has been suggested). It has a 1,000 kg payload, capable of carrying a considerable amount of high explosives or a 1 Mt yield nuclear warhead. It uses a two-stage solid propellant engine with a separating warhead. The missile can be launched from a silo, a railroad flat truck, or a mobile vehicle. This gives it the ability to be hidden, moved quickly, or kept in a hardened silo, largely ensuring survival against any attack.[17]
> 
> The Jericho II forms the basis of the three-stage, 23 ton Shavit NEXT satellite launcher, first launched in 1988 from Palmachim. From the performance of Shavit it has been estimated that as a ballistic missile it has a maximum range of about 7,800 km with a 500 kg payload.[7]
> 
> Some reports claim there are two separate missile systems under development, the Jericho 2 with a 800 km range and the Jericho 2B with an extended 1,500 km range. The range of this missile is frequently reported as about 1,500 km with a 1,000 kg payload, but other estimates suggest that it is capable of a much longer range.
> 
> The Jericho II as an available Israeli counter attack option to Iraqi missile bombardment in the 1991 Gulf War is disputed. Jane's at the time believed that Jericho II entered service in 1989.[18] Researcher Seth Carus claims that according to an Israeli source the decision to operationally deploy the Jericho-2 was only made after 1994, several years after the Scud attacks had ended and a cease fire and disarmament regime were in place.[19] Raytheon quoting Soviet intelligence archives showing them believing the Jericho-2 as an fully developed weapon in 1989, but did not indicate when it was available for deployment.[20] Investigators for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace accessed commercial satellite images of the Sdot Micha Airbase near Zachariah, a suspected Jericho missile base, comparison shows expansion between 1989 and 1993 of the type which would accommodate suspected Jericho II launchers and missiles.[21] Such an expansion would be more consistent with a post-1991 deployment chronology.



For IRBM, which also a requirement in Vietnam. Maybe Shaurya will be chosen most probably. 





Lets see which missile they choose. But let me say with 101% surety that Vietnam soon going to deploy MRBM & IRBM.
Be it A4 or A3 or Jericho 2 or Shaurya.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> For IRBM, which also a requirement in Vietnam. Maybe Shaurya will be chosen most probably.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see which missile they choose. But let me say with 101% surety that Vietnam soon going to deploy MRBM & IRBM.
> Be it A4 or A3 or Jericho 2 or Shaurya.



I really like that.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Conducts Test Runs for Two More ‘Molniya’ Warships*

29 August 2016





One of the two new M5 and M6 warships (photos : QDND)

The Ba Son Shipyard under Vietnam’s Ministry of National Defense is carrying out trial runs to prepare for formal handover of two more fast-attack missile ships to the Navy.

The four-day test runs of the M5 and M6 vessels at sea are wrapping up on Friday following the successful trial operations at the dock, the government portal reported Thursday.

The two vessels were launched in April this year.

Vietnam received the first two Russian-made ships of Molniya class in 2007 and 2008. Under a technology transfer agreement signed by Vietnam and Russia in 2009, the latter agreed that six more will be built and assembled under license in Ba Son shipyard. So far four have been handed over to the Navy and M5 and M6 are the fifth and sixth.

The vessels are designed to destroy warships, amphibious vessels, corvettes, and other enemy targets. They are able to help protect submarines and amphibious ships, and perform reconnaissance missions at sea.






Russia has already handed over five out of the total six submarines to Vietnam. The last one is expected to be delivered at the end of this year.

The two corvettes are equipped with advanced weapons and functions. They are able to operate at sea for 10 straight days and can attack targets both in the air and at sea.

Apart from a modern radar system for tracking targets, each of the vessels is also equipped with 16 sea-to-sea Uran-E missiles arranged into four modules for launch on each side with a range of 130 km.

The other weapons installed in each vessel include two AK-630 ship-borne artillery systems with 4,000 shells each, which can fire at targets at a range of 4-5 km, and an AK-176M automatic gun with a range of 15 km for sea and land targets and 11 km for air targets.


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## Viet

*Diplomacy*

it is sometimes interesting to observe which countries the new Vietnam administration will visit as the first ones. it shows the importance or unimportance in the ranking of the countries perceived by the new administration. the new Prime Minister Nguyen xuan Phuc visited Russia and Japan. the State President visited Cambodia and Laos. and now visits Brunei and Singapore. in his function as State President, Trần Đại Quang is the Supreme Commander of Vietnam armed forces. he is said fluent in Chinese. Let see when he will visit China. He may follow the footsteps of traditional Vietnam: visiting China if it is really necessary. REALLY necessary. for example, despite sharing identical ideology the current VCP boss visits China every 10 years or so.

the former Prime Minister Nguyen van Dung never set a foot on China during his 10 years tenure.



Brunei




















Singapore

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Its all quite strange, but the thing about adding the missiles to the Gepard would be quite amazing, but the thing is, this guy does have insider information, he is very well known for that. Some things can be his opinion, but when he is talking about what he heard, that should be quite credible, we'll see.


For the third pair of Gepard ships, there may be a possibilty.

But for the first four, I doubt it. Adding the BrahMos/Yakhont/Klub would require the redesign of existing ship, which only applies for the third pair. We all know that the only possible space for a VLS system on Gepard class frigate is under the Palma CIWS.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> For the third pair of Gepard ships, there may be a possibilty.
> 
> But for the first four, I doubt it. Adding the BrahMos/Yakhont/Klub would require the redesign of existing ship, which only applies for the third pair. We all know that the only possible space for a VLS system on Gepard class frigate is under the Palma CIWS.



That's what I thought too, but they are talking about installing the Brahmos in the current ships, that's the strange part.


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> A3 or A4, yes thats on card. Otherwise, if that not, Vietnam surely go for Jericho-2. 101% sure.
> 
> Surely no one tell from where that missile arrived, but you soon see Vietnam testing a MRBM.


that would be pretty cool if we possess some modern medium range ballistic missiles. just in case someone runs amok launching BM attacks on Vietnam territories. India under Modi seems having no fear to take on the Dragon. Good move!

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> That's what I thought too, but they are talking about installing the Brahmos in the current ships, that's the strange part.


Might be for the the 1241.RE (Tarantul-III class) missile boats to replace their P-15M/21 missles. 

The M7 to M10 is a no-go because they'll get different missile systems.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Might be for the the 1241.RE (Tarantul-III class) missile boats to replace their P-15M/21 missles.
> 
> The M7 to M10 is a no-go because they'll get different missile systems.



That makes sense,


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## Viet

Israeli made rifle SR-99 for the Marine Corps









Artillery position


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## William Hung

Guys, can we stop doubting our Indian guests? It is rude. I, for one, welcome our South Asian and Israeli overlord. Just believe in it. So Ze-zy-co and Ac-ny it is. VPA already has a code name for them, TL-8 and TL-9, in the central command centre its codenames are NQB-3 and NQB-4.

My writeup is already completed...sent to soha.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam's Three Strategic Options
Anders Corr , Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andersc...three-strategic-options/?ref=yfp#4ba503e82104*

China’s actions in the South China Sea are increasingly militaristic. Due to Vietnam’s lack of strong treaty allies, the country is particularly vulnerable compared to its peers. In response to Vietnam’s deteriorating security situation, it is likely to choose one of three strategies: 1) continue the current strategy of hedging between the U.S., China and Russia; 2) ally with the U.S. against China; or 3) develop Vietnam’s military capabilities, including a potential nuclear deterrent.

China’s actions against Vietnam’s territory, Vietnam’s strategic response, and the outcome of the interaction, have global consequences. A win by China against Vietnam would intimidate other countries into granting concessions, and embolden China militarily. For this reason, Vietnam’s strategic decisions in the coming years should be of concern to everyone with an interest in international politics.

China’s threat against Vietnam is principally an attempt to take over Vietnam’s maritime exclusive economic zone (EEZ), which the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) reserves to Vietnam. Vietnam will likely address the threat through a mix of accommodation and two types of deterrence. Due to the exclusion effects of these strategic options, however, the emphasis of Vietnam’s strategy will likely be only one of the three.

All three strategies incur costs, entail risk, and will likely cause fundamental changes in Vietnam’s politics and economy. Vietnam’s decision will profoundly affect the domestic and international outcome of events in the near future, including whether China strengthens its _de facto_ presence in Vietnam’s maritime territory, the stability of Vietnam’s current leadership, and China’s strategy against other countries.

Vietnam’s current strategy, _hedge between the U.S., China, and Russia_, is the most complex, but least likely to lead to diplomatic, economic, or even military conflict. Vietnam is highly likely to follow this path. It includes the relatively inoffensive elements from all three strategies: seeking negotiations, development funding and trade with all potential allies, including the U.S. and China; only moderately increased defense cooperation with the U.S. and its allies; and new weapons purchases short of a nuclear deterrent.

Overemphasizing any single element of the three strategies that compose hedging will lead to unintended consequences and exclude the effectiveness of the other strategies. Too obvious hedging will alienate all major allies, and erode Vietnam’s image as a committed ally. Too close alliance with the U.S. against China will lead to retaliatory measures by China and perhaps Russia. Obtaining a nuclear deterrent would produce, at the very least, strongly negative diplomatic reactions from both the U.S. and China.

Hedging reduces the risk of war, but leaves Vietnam relatively weak and vulnerable to increasing Chinese influence. As China increases its absolute and relative economic and military strength in Asia, its influence over Vietnam will increase proportionately. This Vietnamese vulnerability will mean increasing political, diplomatic, and economic concessions to China over the next decade or two.

If Vietnam chooses to hedge as its primary strategy, it should expect China to demand, and obtain, concessions such as a private recognition of Chinese sovereignty within the 9-dash line, joint development and revenue sharing of hydrocarbon and fishing resources, and possibly even discreet forms of taxing Vietnam’s maritime trade. Increasing Chinese influence in Vietnam and the resulting concessions will create discontent among Vietnam’s population, risking political stability and the tenure of the current Vietnamese leadership.

A second strategy would be for Vietnam’s leadership to largely eliminate China’s influence on Vietnam and _ally closely with the U.S._ and its allies, including Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Australia, and India. As part of this strategy, Vietnam could bring its own arbitration case against China through UNCLOS. This strategy of allying with the U.S. is most likely to maintain Vietnam’s independence and sovereignty over its hydrocarbon, fishing, and maritime shipping economies. But Vietnam’s newly close allies would, over time, have their own influence on Vietnam, including more active encouragement of democratization and freedom of speech reforms.

Democratic reform could lead, in time, to social movements that ask the current leadership to step down in favor of constitutional reform, and eventually a democratically-elected government. Detractors of this strategy will argue that it could lead to political chaos, civil war, and severe negative effects on Vietnam’s currently impressive level of economic growth.

A third strategy is to _develop Vietnam’s military capabilities_ to the point where China is less likely to attack. Vietnam already purchased six kilo-class submarines from Russia in the past few years. These are of the silent diesel-electric variety, and carry land-attack cruise missiles capable of reaching Chinese naval bases on Hainan or major coastal cities such as Shanghai. Vietnam might over time be able to purchase or indigenously develop nuclear warheads for these missiles.

The militarization strategy is least likely to cause regime change, and so is a likely route. But it would take time, incite a greater arms race than already obtains in Asia, and if nuclear, certainly entail very large costs from international diplomatic protests and economic sanctions.

As a low-probability but high-cost risk, a new Vietnamese nuclear deterrent could inspire a Chinese preemptive strike on Vietnam’s nuclear facilities. Additionally, China could use strategies against Vietnam such as brinkmanship that purposefully increases the probability of a war, that even China does not want. Or, China could privately emphasize its own superiority in any total war with Vietnam through backchannels, while simultaneously provoking low-intensity military conflict to demonstrate resolve. This would likely intimidate Vietnam into making concessions, despite its new nuclear deterrent. Militarization could be expensive in terms of monetary and political capital, yet ineffective against a determined China willing to take risk.

Indeed, China has demonstrated a strong appetite for risk over the past few years. Due to China’s increasingly aggressive stance, Vietnam more than most other countries is unfortunately faced with a range of only unsavory strategic options. The best option for the leadership and citizens of Vietnam, in my opinion, is to ally closely with the U.S., Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines, Australia, and India, while significantly increasing Vietnam’s military capabilities.

Whatever Vietnam’s choice of strategy, the greatest patriotism is a statesmanship and stateswomanship that ignores personal consequence. Vietnam’s leadership now has that historic opportunity. If embraced, the Vietnamese people will surely return the kindness with a place in the paean to Vietnam’s national heros.

_Part of this opinion piece is an adaptation from a conference presentation on August 17, 2016 in Nha Trang City, Vietnam. The conference, sponsored by Pham Van Dong and Nha Trang Universities, was titled “Legal Status of Islands And Rocks In International Law And Practice In The South China Sea.” __Travel__ expenses and an honorarium were provided by the conference sponsors for the August 17 presentation._

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## Silent Knight

Meh, would not align with the US at any cost. The lessons from Ukraine, Philippines and even South Vietnam were learned very well.


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## hoangsa74

Silent Knight said:


> Meh, would not align with the US at any cost. The lessons from Ukraine, Philippines and even South Vietnam were learned very well.


u stand alone you have zero chance of winning a war against china considering how primitive your military is. Even powerful military like south korea, japan, australia need an alliance with the u.s; let a lone a military like Vietnam that is not even on par with Thailand.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Meh, would not align with the US at any cost. The lessons from Ukraine, Philippines and even South Vietnam were learned very well.



So which option you like, 1 or 3?


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## Aqsuperman

hoangsa74 said:


> u stand alone you have zero chance of winning a war against china considering how primitive your military is. Even powerful military like south korea, japan, australia need an alliance with the u.s; let a lone a military like Vietnam that is not even on par with Thailand.



Pffff and how that type of alliance work for these countries: South Vietnam ? Georgia ? Royal Cambodia and Laos ? They all have US as a devoted ally, what happen to them ? Did they win ? NOPE. Thais armed forces are for coup and parade, not for fighting, just like the ARVN. Proof ? VN has many minorities and religions, not a single significant arm insurgency or bombing since 1980s with the "primitive" equipment. Thailand with that "majestic" army cant even properly secure his southern part of the country. And not to mention Philippine, "exercising" with the US whenever China take a reef from his hand like Scarborough reef for an example. You like "Oh Let get in an alliance, we will be 1000% safe""Let buys F-35, its can shoot down 1000 planes before requiring a landing". The type of alliance that gets you a military protection require a near total - control of 1 country to another. That country say A you say A, tell B you tell B. And if that country go to war, you go to war with him. Its not easy as "Hey, lets be ally, you protect me while i show you my gratitude". Only people that cant read online news and drown in a pool of illusion made from their own limited knowledge of history facts can think otherwise. 

Naval infantry equipment. I personally think that Israel stuffs are on the rise in our army.


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## gambit

Aqsuperman said:


> Pffff and how that type of alliance work for these countries: South Vietnam ?...
> 
> ...snipped


All you have done was insult other countries without addressing the core issue: How will Viet Nam stand against an aggressive and more militarily powerful China ? Alone ? Are you joking ?

Regarding the Vietnam War, the alliance with the US gave South Viet Nam some time of independence from the disaster that was communism. The SVN-US alliance fought for partition. The NVN-China-Soviet fought for a unitary Viet Nam. If the SVN-US alliance chose to fight for the same goal -- a unitary Viet Nam -- the NVA would have been wiped out in short order. Would China have committed troops against US troops ? We will never know.

Insulting the US and other US-allied countries is not going to help Viet Nam one bit.

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## BoQ77

gambit said:


> All you have done was insult other countries without addressing the core issue: How will Viet Nam stand against an aggressive and more militarily powerful China ? Alone ? Are you joking ?
> ......
> Insulting the US and other US-allied countries is not going to help Viet Nam one bit.



Yes, I want to have your idea for this. How to ?


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## Viet

It is generally unwise to exclude options when dealing with problems of national interests. one can observe the statements of the heads of governments, or in case of Germany, they say: "Wir schließen nichts aus. Alle Optionen liegen auf dem Tisch." all options are on the table, no option is excluded. Because excluding this and that and making it public would ease strategic calculus of one´s opponent. even if one does not want to go down the path after announcing the intention.

the case of Republic of Vietnam, thing is not what it may for some. I can tell here a bit about the US strategic calculus back then. first and foremost one should keep in mind, in addition to the cost of human lives, nearly 60,000 US soldiers were killed, more than 150,000 wounded, most of US soldiers returning home were suffering trauma, some 200,000 committed suicide, the Vietnam war brought America on the brink of a political and economic crisis. one can re-read the events in America and Europe. the costs became unbearable, unsustainable. even for a superpower. the US realized, the war was lost, and withdrew US troops from Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> All you have done was insult other countries without addressing the core issue: How will Viet Nam stand against an aggressive and more militarily powerful China ? Alone ? Are you joking ?.



THAT IS THE KEY QUESTION !!!!!!

I'd go for number 3 with elements from the other 2 but without too much expectations from them since they are outside Vietnam's control.



Viet said:


> It is generally unwise to exclude options when dealing with problems of national interests. one can observe the statements of the heads of governments, or in case of Germany, they say: "Wir schließen nichts aus. Alle Optionen liegen auf dem Tisch." all options are on the table, no option is excluded. Because excluding this and that and making it public would ease strategic calculus of one´s opponent. even if one does not want to go down the path after announcing the intention.
> 
> the case of Republic of Vietnam, thing is not what it may for some. I can tell here a bit about the US strategic calculus back then. first and foremost one should keep in mind, in addition to the cost of human lives, nearly 60,000 US soldiers were killed, more than 150,000 wounded, most of US soldiers returning home were suffering trauma, some 200,000 committed suicide, the Vietnam war brought America on the brink of a political and economic crisis. one can re-read the events in America and Europe. the costs became unbearable, unsustainable. even for a superpower. the US realized, the war was lost, and withdrew US troops from Vietnam.



Vietnam is starting a de facto lose alliance with USA, India, Japan, etc, but its only in the initial stages, can't say how far it can go and can't depend fully on others for your own defense, there is no such thing as a free lunch these days, but anything that can help has to be considered.

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## xiao qi

Silent Knight said:


> Meh, would not align with the US at any cost. The lessons from Ukraine, Philippines and even South Vietnam were learned very well.


Right !


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> THAT IS THE KEY QUESTION !!!!!!
> 
> I'd go for number 3 with elements from the other 2 but without too much expectations from them since they are outside Vietnam's control.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam is starting a de facto lose alliance with USA, India, Japan, etc, but its only in the initial stages, can't say how far it can go and can't depend fully on others for your own defense, there is no such thing as a free lunch these days, but anything that can help has to be considered.


I would prefer this way:

1) maintain the strategy of hedging between America, China and Russia
2) establish quasi military alliance with Japan
3) increase Vietnam’s military capabilities, including build-up a potential nuclear deterrent

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> So which option you like, 1 or 3?


The way Vietnamese government doing right now - a mixed between the 1 and 3, minus the nuke.

As I said, where's the US when their "allies" needed them the most, after they provoke a conflict with their huge neighbor following their master order? Ukraine, Georgia, Philippines are prime examples.

Vietnam - US relationship might get warmer these days, but I doubt that we would drop everything to be another lap dog for the US.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I would prefer this way:
> 
> 1) maintain the strategy of hedging between America, China and Russia
> 2) establish quasi military alliance with Japan
> 3) increase Vietnam’s military capabilities, including build-up a potential nuclear deterrent



You forgot India next to Japan. India can do much more for VN than Japan.



Silent Knight said:


> The way Vietnamese government doing right now - a mixed between the 1 and 3, minus the nuke.
> 
> As I said, where's the US when their "allies" needed them the most, after they provoke a conflict with their huge neighbor following their master order? Ukraine, Georgia, Philippines are prime examples.
> 
> Vietnam - US relationship might get warmer these days, but I doubt that we would drop everything to be another lap dog for the US.



I agree, but there are benefits about getting closer to USA, Its not a black and white thing where you go all the way or not or whether you become dependent on them or not. I think its worth it to explore the options that bring something positive. And yes, PH is a good example of how not to depend on someone else, I was very surprised that USA let the chinese take Scarborough Shoal. That was a big mistake (I attribute that to Obama lack of balls).



Viet said:


> I would prefer this way:
> 
> 1) maintain the strategy of hedging between America, China and Russia
> 2) establish quasi military alliance with Japan
> 3) increase Vietnam’s military capabilities, including build-up a potential nuclear deterrent



I certainly would not mind some Jericho 2B missiles with a few nuclear warheads for the ultimate deterrence. 
Hell, Israel will sell anything if there is enough money on the table. North Korea too. I think USA would look the other way.

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## Aqsuperman

gambit said:


> All you have done was insult other countries without addressing the core issue: How will Viet Nam stand against an aggressive and more militarily powerful China ? Alone ? Are you joking ?
> 
> Regarding the Vietnam War, the alliance with the US gave South Viet Nam some time of independence from the disaster that was communism. The SVN-US alliance fought for partition. The NVN-China-Soviet fought for a unitary Viet Nam. If the SVN-US alliance chose to fight for the same goal -- a unitary Viet Nam -- the NVA would have been wiped out in short order. Would China have committed troops against US troops ? We will never know.
> 
> Insulting the US and other US-allied countries is not going to help Viet Nam one bit.



I do like your input in this thread but i have to say that you take this in the wrong way here

All i say is facts that already happen. And since you clearly declare that the goal of the the US in Indochina is about partition then its totally natural that they will lose. The war for VN independence start way before the US participation and the goal has always been one whole VN, not one half or one third. And because you say that the NVA will be wiped out by the US if, a very big IF, US change their objectives then i guess i can say that the 13 colonies will be erased from the map if UK want to deploy all the troops from the other part of the world to North America. Should France and Spain deploy troops to have a showdown with UK for the colonies ? GOD KNOW. So dont presume that whatever happen in VN is the result of this and that and if you change it then US can win. History and military situations dont work like that. And even if it was right then its the faults and the lack of capability of the nation planners to implant it, simple as that.

Insulting people surely wont help us. But to let people know what happen if you place high hope in a "alliance" will not result in something good will keep us realistic. How will us deal with our Northern neighbor ? Oh plz, you sound like Vn is a country that just exist for a few hundred year. We has been dealing wit them for more than 2 thousand years already and fighting has always razing around the clock. Of course the new world present new conditions but running around begging for military protection ? Yeah that will make us feel much stronger. Not to mention how you can find a country that ready to shed the blood for us. Always easy said than done


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You forgot India next to Japan. India can do much more for VN than Japan..


No I don´t forget India. But Japan shares more with Vietnam many things in common, not only because there are only 3 countries in the world knowing the Chinese in and out: Vietnam, Japan and Korea.



Carlosa said:


> I agree, but there are benefits about getting closer to USA, Its not a black and white thing where you go all the way or not or whether you become dependent on them or not. I think its worth it to explore the options that bring something positive. And yes, PH is a good example of how not to depend on someone else, I was very surprised that USA let the chinese take Scarborough Shoal. That was a big mistake (I attribute that to Obama lack of balls)..


Many people forget the US-Philippines defence treaty does not cover the islands in dispute in the South China sea. actually I really wonder why the Chinese do not dare to take more islands from the Philippines.




Carlosa said:


> I certainly would not mind some Jericho 2B missiles with a few nuclear warheads for the ultimate deterrence.
> Hell, Israel will sell anything if there is enough money on the table. North Korea too. I think USA would look the other way.


no objection to India and Israel supporting our military build-up. but I believe, except Japan, no other country in the world will go an extra mile to build a military alliance with Vietnam. there are still too much sensibilities in Vietnam toward America, so I think it is not an option right now.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> I agree, but there are benefits about getting closer to USA, Its not a black and white thing where you go all the way or not or whether you become dependent on them or not. I think its worth it to explore the options that bring something positive. And yes, PH is a good example of how not to depend on someone else, I was very surprised that USA let the chinese take Scarborough Shoal. That was a big mistake (I attribute that to Obama lack of balls).


Well, back in 1974, the US ordered South Vietnam not to fight the Chinese to defend and take back the Paracel Islands, so I don't think it's a surprise. China is always a bigger and better "partner" for the US than Vietnam. There's no guarantee that the US will not betray their allies to gain benefits from a "supposed" enemy like China. 

Yes, we are getting closer to the US, but that doesn't mean we will become another "ally" of them.

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## BoQ77

Vietnam is playing the game of "One Asean"
actually, AEC is real. https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cộng_đồng_Kinh_tế_ASEAN

ASC or ASEAN Security Community is next

https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cộng_đồng_An_ninh_ASEAN


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## xiao qi

Vietnam shouldn't believe "so-called ally" of the US. Us or Russia, China only did for their interests, not for Vietnamese's interests. They can sell us when they want.


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## gambit

Aqsuperman said:


> I do like your input in this thread but i have to say that you take this in the wrong way here
> 
> All i say is facts that already happen. And since you clearly declare that the goal of the the US in Indochina is about partition then its totally natural that they will lose. The war for VN independence start way before the US participation and the goal has always been one whole VN, not one half or one third. And because you say that the NVA will be wiped out by the US if, a very big IF, US change their objectives then i guess i can say that the 13 colonies will be erased from the map if UK want to deploy all the troops from the other part of the world to North America. Should France and Spain deploy troops to have a showdown with UK for the colonies ? GOD KNOW. So dont presume that whatever happen in VN is the result of this and that and if you change it then US can win. History and military situations dont work like that. And even if it was right then its the faults and the lack of capability of the nation planners to implant it, simple as that.


You have not provided a single credible proposal on how singular Viet Nam could stand against China.

Citing facts and using them rhetorically gives a facade of sophistication but in the end, that is all it is -- a facade. There is no depth. No substance. Nothing but working people would call 'bitching'.

The Vietnam War ended in 1975, for the US, it was in 1972 with the program 'Vietnamization' of the war. I fled in 1975 and from the US, I read news of the terrible atrocities the communists committed on their fellow Viets and the tragedy that was the 'boat people'. When we returned to look for our grandparents who died in a 're-education' center, I learned that the communists often give animal bones to families for burial. We decided to leave them to rest wherever they were. For Viets who worships their ancestors, many now prays to cow bones. Then from 1975 on, Viet Nam continued to descend into the shithole that was the communist experiment. How did that worked out for you ?

History is linear. A chain of cause and effects where one effect is a cause. If something happened yesterday or last yr, I will be inclined to take that into consideration when I make my decision on what to do. But the Vietnam War ended decades ago. The US have had several Presidents since 1975. The Vietnamese government's leadership are no longer communist and more pragmatic. Too many changes occurred. There is a real threat to the land that you live in but now *YOU* want to hang onto an event that you have practically no ties to it other than the fact that you live in the country where that event occurred.

Napoleon said that to know a country's geography is to know its foreign policy. Nappy was not the first to recognize that truth but the best to explained it. China is looking to put a sharp knife to Viet Nam's economic throat *TODAY* but you are focused on what happened over 40 yrs ago.

Good luck.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> Vietnam shouldn't believe "so-called ally" of the US. Us or Russia, China only did for their interests, not for Vietnamese's interests. They can sell us when they want.


sis Vietnam seeking partners in peace and war time is not a new invention but goes back to the time of the Nguyen and Trinh´s, when China still had a closed door policy. look, China despite possessing great resources and having mass of people is seeking military tie with Russia, staging military exercises with the Russians in the south china sea, hence I don´t see why we hesitate here and there not to play the same game.

I´m not saying we should pursue a military alliance with the US now, but excluding it from the beginning is not wise. because in doing so it is helping China in her strategic calculus how to defeat Vietnam.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> sis Vietnam seeking partners in peace and war time is not a new invention but goes back to the time of the Nguyen and Trinh´s, when China still had a closed door policy. look, China despite possessing great resources and having mass of people is seeking military tie with Russia, staging military exercises with the Russians in the south china sea, hence I don´t see why we hesitate here and there not to play the same game.
> 
> I´m not saying we should pursue a military alliance with the US now, but excluding it from the beginning is not wise. because in doing so it is helping China in her strategic calculus how to defeat Vietnam.


@Viet i don't oppose if we view Us as a counterpart, but not our ally. I talk it many times on PDF. See our history clearly, We saw China as a brother, and 1972, they sell us. We saw Russia as the ally, and 1988, they didn't do anything when we had the war with China, even 1979, our treaty with Russia is an only paper draft, no more. Japan, They have history affairs with China from WW2, Our purpose is our lands, not fight for US or Japan.


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## Silent Knight

No wonder why some people always cry to the US...

I guess that's the same people that always cry "the communist has sold our land to the Chinese", "no more island and sea" blah blah blah in the last 30 years ~,~



xiao qi said:


> @Viet i don't oppose if we view Us as a counterpart, but not our ally. I talk it many times on PDF. See our history clearly, We saw China as a brother, and 1972, they sell us. We saw Russia as the ally, and 1988, they didn't do anything when we had the war with China, even 1979, our treaty with Russia is an only paper draft, no more. Japan, They have history affairs with China from WW2, Our purpose is our lands, not fight for US or Japan. At that time of the Trinh- Nguyen, Chinese is weak and was defeated by Mãn Châu, their king even tried to run to Vietnam but he was arrested in Myanmar


Correction:

China had been playing Vietnam since 1960s era, as in stealing and replacing Soviet-made weapon with their indigenous ones. Case in point, several MiG-21s and S-75 systems.

Soviet Union did do something in 1979, just not a direct involvement. We didn't ask for their help in 1988, but they still provided intelligence for us.

But I still agree with you, we couldn't look forward to any "ally" during hard times.


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## xiao qi

We are weak, we are bullied, it is the simple thing. As my personal opinion, create the relation with Japanese, Us is *temporary* time. not for a long time. We must build our economy also military, when we are strong, who dare to violate our territories? Don't expect Japan or US, India...except myself. Of course, we can't surpass China .it isn't important. We only need to increase our military. China , they will ask they must use how much their blood if they attack our sea. Is it worth?


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## Aqsuperman

gambit said:


> You have not provided a single credible proposal on how singular Viet Nam could stand against China.
> 
> Citing facts and using them rhetorically gives a facade of sophistication but in the end, that is all it is -- a facade. There is no depth. No substance. Nothing but working people would call 'bitching'.
> 
> The Vietnam War ended in 1975, for the US, it was in 1972 with the program 'Vietnamization' of the war. I fled in 1975 and from the US, I read news of the terrible atrocities the communists committed on their fellow Viets and the tragedy that was the 'boat people'. When we returned to look for our grandparents who died in a 're-education' center, I learned that the communists often give animal bones to families for burial. We decided to leave them to rest wherever they were. For Viets who worships their ancestors, many now prays to cow bones. Then from 1975 on, Viet Nam continued to descend into the shithole that was the communist experiment. How did that worked out for you ?
> 
> History is linear. A chain of cause and effects where one effect is a cause. If something happened yesterday or last yr, I will be inclined to take that into consideration when I make my decision on what to do. But the Vietnam War ended decades ago. The US have had several Presidents since 1975. The Vietnamese government's leadership are no longer communist and more pragmatic. Too many changes occurred. There is a real threat to the land that you live in but now *YOU* want to hang onto an event that you have practically no ties to it other than the fact that you live in the country where that event occurred.
> 
> Napoleon said that to know a country's geography is to know its foreign policy. Nappy was not the first to recognize that truth but the best to explained it. China is looking to put a sharp knife to Viet Nam's economic throat *TODAY* but you are focused on what happened over 40 yrs ago.
> 
> Good luck.



You are jumping subjects to subject fast.

"Bitching" ? Really ? Substance and depth ? I can write 15 A4 pages explaining what going on from the 1954 to 1975 but i do want keep it short for people eyes here. My point is to let people know what happen if VN goes down the alliance road. Its retarded if the only thing you got to argue back with me is i also has to present something else if i hate the idea about alliance. And if you really like the alliance so much, mind explain to me the way for VN to enter an alliance with a country that will ready to bomb VN enemy, expert heavy economic pressure against it, set up embargo along the coast line and will even threaten to use nuclear weapon to protect VN.

Now since you like politics, i will entertain you a bit,

News of terrible communist atrocities, so i guess you read it on the same paper that will later claim Saddam Hussein has WMD in his country , Osama Bin Laden is a freedom fighter and VN still keep US POW after the war ? Shit hole after 1975 ? Yea sure since US go full swing in support of China and Khmer Rouge so VN has to start mobilizing man for a 2 front war which add another 20 years of isolation and embargo. Thanks a lot Uncle Sam. I bet if UK has keep up a navy embargo toward the entire North America sector, a similar kind of hole will be formed in the colonies then ? You beat up someone and use everything in your power to make that guy life as miserable as possible. Finally you claim that the guy is just a wreck........Well, i have nothing to say with that kind of action and logic

I dont hang to anything. I learn and see things. History to you people like a nothing but a minor stuff. Come and go straight to trash can. When i tell it you say, "Hey that old stuff, dont apply it here. Dont cling to it." Well damn then i guess what can we say a bout a country reputation if we dont check his god damn history ? Now ? What happen to Philippine NOW ? What happen to Ukraine NOW ? What happen to Iraq NOW ? I update stuff everyday and everywhere i check, i cant see any bright spots about "alliance". And when i point it out, you say that im "insulting people". Name 1 time after the Gulf War that military alliance actually work for me, please. And do exclude all the gang fight like half of NATO bomb the crap out of Libya.

Economic partners are fine and some military technology exchange are also good but a military alliance ? Pfff like hell someone will die for a country that is not his homeland.


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## Silent Knight

Aqsuperman said:


> Economic partners are fine and some military technology exchange are also good but a military alliance ? Pfff like hell *someone will die for a country that is not his homeland*.


* cough * 'Murica in the Middle East *cough*

FOR FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY!!!

The soldiers of course, not the politicians.

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## gambit

Aqsuperman said:


> "Bitching" ? Really ? Substance and depth ? I can write 15 A4 pages explaining what going on from the 1954 to 1975 but i do want keep it short for people eyes here.


And it will be meaningless to everyone, including the Viets on this forum. At best, you will get a few 'Thanks' and a few posts praising how you stick it to the US, but in the end, you will have contributed *NOTHING*, even on the intellectual front, on how to solve Viet Nam's predicament.



Aqsuperman said:


> My point is to let people know what happen if VN goes down the alliance road. Its retarded if the only thing you got to argue back with me is i also has to present something else if i hate the idea about alliance. *And if you really like the alliance so much*, mind explain to me the way for VN to enter an alliance with a country that will ready to bomb VN enemy, expert heavy economic pressure against it, set up embargo along the coast line and will even threaten to use nuclear weapon to protect VN.


The issue is not what I like, but *WHAT IS/ARE NECESSARY*. Get that thru your head. Even Uncle Ho, at one time, felt it was necessary to put on a front for the US by way of quoting the US Constitution and it was good enough to fool people until this day.



Aqsuperman said:


> Now since you like politics, *i will entertain you a bit*,


You already have.



Aqsuperman said:


> News of terrible communist atrocities, so i guess you read it on the *same paper* that will later claim Saddam Hussein has WMD in his country , Osama Bin Laden is a freedom fighter and VN still keep US POW after the war ?


No, unlike communist countries, there are plenty of sources of news. So far, not one of them (plural), domestic US and foreign, ever said those communist atrocities did not occurred. Tell us, were you alive at that time ?



Aqsuperman said:


> Shit hole after 1975 ? Yea sure since US go full swing in support of China and Khmer Rouge so VN has to start mobilizing man for a 2 front war which add another 20 years of isolation and embargo. Thanks a lot Uncle Sam. I bet if UK has keep up a *navy embargo* toward the entire North America sector, a similar kind of hole will be formed in the colonies then ? You beat up someone and use everything in your power to make that guy life as miserable as possible. Finally you claim that the guy is just a wreck........Well, i have nothing to say with that kind of action and logic


An embargo ? That tell me that I should not take that 15 A4 pages from you seriously. Perhaps you mean a *BLOCKADE*.

A blockade is an act of war. That is when there are *PHYSICAL* measures to prevent access, in and out. Last I checked, there were no US fleets off the coast of Viet Nam and if I recall reading newspaper in the BI (Before Internet) era, Soviet ships docked in Cam Ranh Bay regularly, no ? So what 'embargo' are you talking about ?

An embargo is *VOLUNTARY*, meaning the US does not have any legal and physical measures to enforce its will. For your education, while the US government prevented US businesses from Viet Nam, tne JPNese and the SKReans were in country.

So why was Viet Nam an economic shithole ? To further your education, there is no right to trade, young man. Trade is a privilege, not a right. At best, I have the right to propose trade, but not to force it upon you. So if the Soviets, the Chinese, the Warsaw Pact, the JPNese, and the SKReans were trading with Viet Nam, why was Viet Nam that economic shithole ? Too embarrassed to admit that the Marxist experiment failed and that you must latch onto the most convenient scapegoat, the US ?

Write those 15 A4 pages, see if anyone cares when you have proven you do not know as much as you think when you cannot even distinguish the difference between an 'embargo' and a 'blockade'. If you are intellectually honest enough, you might include how much Soviet aid there were to Viet Nam after 1975.



Aqsuperman said:


> I dont hang to anything. I learn and see things. History to you people like a nothing but a minor stuff.


Actually, history matters a lot to people like me who thinks beyond history. Unlike people like you, we do not let history get in our way of progress.

George Santayana famous quote goes: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The sad part is that the corollary is equally true: Those who learned from history are doomed to repeat it.

Why ? Because people like you imprisoned yourselves via the same history books since you failed to realize that there are different perspectives to the same event.



Aqsuperman said:


> Come and go straight to trash can. When i tell it you say, "Hey that old stuff, dont apply it here. Dont cling to it." Well damn then i guess what can we say a bout a country reputation if we dont check his god damn history ? Now ? What happen to Philippine NOW ? What happen to Ukraine NOW ? What happen to Iraq NOW ? I update stuff everyday and everywhere i check, i cant see any bright spots about "alliance". And when i point it out, you say that im "insulting people". Name 1 time after the Gulf War that military alliance actually work for me, please. And do exclude all the gang fight from like half or NATO bomb the crap out of Libya.


The problem for you is that you believe, or at least think, that there must be a universal solution to all problems. Are the Viets identical to the Iraqis ? Why did the US able to support VN instead of Ukraine ? I guess that communist experiment must have succeeded for you since communists believes theirs is the universal solution so now you must believe there are fixed methods for everything.



Aqsuperman said:


> Pfff like hell someone will die for a country that is not his homeland.


If you have to resort to this, that tells me you got nothing worthwhile to offer for the country we both came from.

To start off, I am in good company since the US is an immigrant nation.

Next, it seems you do not understand human nature as well as you think you do. A person's political allegiance often goes to the country that offers him the best opportunities to better his life. I do not see people swarming to become Vietnamese citizens. Do you ?

All of this is entertaining enough. I still do not see a single credible argument from you on how Viet Nam is to survive Chinese military onslaught other than the potential problems of alliances, which does not *DIRECTLY* address the problem in the first place.

Since you have demonstrated you do not understand the difference between an 'embargo' and a 'blockade'. If China succeed in gaining physical control of the South China Sea, it does not matter your view on alliances since China will make that decision for Viet Nam -- China will not care. Whether it is Viet Nam, the Philippines, or Indonesia, China will not care. In fact, China is counting on people like *YOU* to make her job easier. If Viet Nam is made to be all alone, what differences do alliances make regarding the SCS ? None. China will control Viet Nam's access to the seas and trade as you write those 15 A4 pages about how terrible the US was in those post WW II yrs.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> @Viet i don't oppose if we view Us as a counterpart, but not our ally. I talk it many times on PDF. See our history clearly, We saw China as a brother, and 1972, they sell us. We saw Russia as the ally, and 1988, they didn't do anything when we had the war with China, even 1979, our treaty with Russia is an only paper draft, no more. Japan, They have history affairs with China from WW2, Our purpose is our lands, not fight for US or Japan.


sis I agree, history is always a good teacher, giving us good advise and providing hint how actors acted yesterday and will act tomorrow, but I believe nevertheless it should not darken our focus on today´s problem. comparing our security situation to Ukraine, Iraq and others won´t help us. sure, I also know America is evil. they abandoned South Vietnam in the battle of Paracels. are the Soviets not in the same boat in the clash of Spratlys? you see, all lead our discussion to a dead end. ok why not step back a while and ask ourselves this* $5 trillions* question: are Vietnam armed forces capable to defend her territories over land, sea and sky by now and the future?

if the answer is YES, then all speculations whether alliance or not are just academic speculations.

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## Aqsuperman

Hah this is indeed a funny deal.



gambit said:


> And it will be meaningless to everyone, including the Viets on this forum. At best, you will get a few 'Thanks' and a few posts praising how you stick it to the US, but in the end, you will have contributed *NOTHING*, even on the intellectual front, on how to solve Viet Nam's predicament.



First you demand something with a bit of depth then after i show you that i can do it then youjust outright declare even if i do, its will still be meaningless. The *double standard* is strong in this one. You simply cant take it that my *main point *is against the option about the alliance. Yet all you see that i "dont contribute" any solution and like i have forsave the whole nation.



gambit said:


> The issue is not what I like, but *WHAT IS/ARE NECESSARY*. Get that thru your head. Even Uncle Ho, at one time, felt it was necessary to put on a front for the US by way of quoting the US Constitution and it was good enough to fool people until this day.



*WHAT IS/ARE NECESSARY ? *What is it in your point then ? All i do is expressing what i see all the news about alliance in history and around the word now. *BUT YOU *claim that i "insulting" US allies. Then hopping around from this subject to another.



gambit said:


> No, unlike communist countries, there are plenty of sources of news. So far, not one of them (plural), domestic US and foreign, ever said those communist atrocities did not occurred. Tell us, were you alive at that time ?



Pfff so i need to be alive at certain time period to argue history ? 500 years ago people belive that that the Earth is the center of the universe and up to the 18th centuries people still think that the Earth is flat. Just because many people spread and beilive in something does not automatically make it a truth that will last. One stuff that everybody know is the US POW problem that someone brought up to do nothing more than to promote a movie that made people think VN keep US POW and wont release them.



gambit said:


> An embargo ? That tell me that I should not take that 15 A4 pages from you seriously. Perhaps you mean a *BLOCKADE*.
> 
> A blockade is an act of war. That is when there are *PHYSICAL* measures to prevent access, in and out. Last I checked, there were no US fleets off the coast of Viet Nam and if I recall reading newspaper in the BI (Before Internet) era, Soviet ships docked in Cam Ranh Bay regularly, no ? So what 'embargo' are you talking about ?
> 
> An embargo is *VOLUNTARY*, meaning the US does not have any legal and physical measures to enforce its will. For your education, while the US government prevented US businesses from Viet Nam, tne JPNese and the SKReans were in country.
> 
> So why was Viet Nam an economic shithole ? To further your education, there is no right to trade, young man. Trade is a privilege, not a right. At best, I have the right to propose trade, but not to force it upon you. So if the Soviets, the Chinese, the Warsaw Pact, the JPNese, and the SKReans were trading with Viet Nam, why was Viet Nam that economic shithole ? Too embarrassed to admit that the Marxist experiment failed and that you must latch onto the most convenient scapegoat, the US ?
> 
> Write those 15 A4 pages, see if anyone cares when you have proven you do not know as much as you think when you cannot even distinguish the difference between an 'embargo' and a 'blockade'. If you are intellectually honest enough, you might include how much Soviet aid there were to Viet Nam after 1975.



Wow such a nice explanation. Just happen to conveniently not include the Khmer Rouge and China in our North and Southwest border into the big picture. And the reason i use the "navy embargo" is in that time, sea is the most direct way of transportation. You cut it off and a country trading is stuck for good. But then this is mostly a minor issue. Why dont you bring out some clever analysis about the Khmer Rouge and China into VN economic ? You think that another nearly 2 decades of 2 front war wont effect anything ? Pfff and guess who give those guy the most support, surely not the Soviet and the Warsaw Pact ? And if that is not enough, guess how many economic sabotage from ex - RVN supported by US has been exposed.



gambit said:


> ctually, history matters a lot to people like me who thinks beyond history. Unlike people like you, we do not let history get in our way of progress.
> 
> George Santayana famous quote goes: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> The sad part is that the corollary is equally true: Those who learned from history are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> Why ? Because people like you imprisoned yourselves via the same history books since you failed to realize that there are different perspectives to the same event.



Wow nice interpretation there. "Those who learned from history are doomed to repeat it" LOL LOL LOL really ? Cut out a word and its "equally true" ? Who vouch for that idea ? You ? What a great world i live in. You seem incapable to acknowledge that *i do *update recently events and you just can get it through your head.



gambit said:


> The problem for you is that you believe, or at least think, that there must be a universal solution to all problems. Are the Viets identical to the Iraqis ? Why did the US able to support VN instead of Ukraine ? I guess that communist experiment must have succeeded for you since communists believes theirs is the universal solution so now you must believe there are fixed methods for everything.



One more point to show that you cant process my idea. I *OPPOSE *the military alliance. And then you start demanding i present another idea and presume i must have think for a "universal" solution. But truth is when i oppose something, i skip it and look for another way. Your assumption show to me that the *only way you want or have by all mean necessary *is military alliance. You dead stuck on it and wont let it go no matter what.



gambit said:


> If you have to resort to this, that tells me you got nothing worthwhile to offer for the country we both came from.
> 
> To start off, I am in good company since the US is an immigrant nation.
> 
> Next, it seems you do not understand human nature as well as you think you do. A person's political allegiance often goes to the country that offers him the best opportunities to better his life. I do not see people swarming to become Vietnamese citizens. Do you ?
> 
> All of this is entertaining enough. I still do not see a single credible argument from you on how Viet Nam is to survive Chinese military onslaught other than the potential problems of alliances, which does not *DIRECTLY* address the problem in the first place.
> 
> Since you have demonstrated you do not understand the difference between an 'embargo' and a 'blockade'. If China succeed in gaining physical control of the South China Sea, it does not matter your view on alliances since China will make that decision for Viet Nam -- China will not care. Whether it is Viet Nam, the Philippines, or Indonesia, China will not care. In fact, China is counting on people like *YOU* to make her job easier. If Viet Nam is made to be all alone, what differences do alliances make regarding the SCS ? None. China will control Viet Nam's access to the seas and trade as you write those 15 A4 pages about how terrible the US was in those post WW II yrs.



Oh you sound like you or anyone here can do that. This is a forum for news, not a government post for taking people thoughts. But yeah, people do swarm to countries that they *think* offer them the best. And when shit dont work out, the country that they come from has to pay money for their flight ticket homes, irony eh ? But then you are still clinging to the idea about " single credible argument from you on how Viet Nam is to survive Chinese military onslaught". I show you tons of proof about how military alliance doesnt work and you still sound like its will work for 100% here ? You criticize me not to accept the alliance idea but have you know a successful model around yet ? So check this if you think that this alliance still work: ROKS Cheonan, a SK corvettes warship got sunk by North Korea torp in 2010, pretty much an act of war. You know the first move from the US command there ? Advise the South Korea not to take any action. Just the "usual" alert That is when they got more than US 30,000 troops there. Seem good to your senses ? People like *ME* keep stuff realistic, people like *YOU *keep living in the clouds. So if someone sunk one of VN war ship when VN in an alliance with US, will US come and hit them with us ? Hope you have an answer for that.

If there is an idea on the table and someone speak against it, you have to bring evidences what show otherwise, not things like "its will be different this time" or "Take it or bring a new ones". Its the argument from someone with a retarded mind.

You cant answer how VN will be able to enter an alliance that guarantee a swift respond both military and economic.
You dont know a bit of the current event yet you dare to claim that people like me "live in the past"
You know nothing, Jonh


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## William Hung

To make sense of this debate, I think you all need to first clarify and define what you meant by the word “ally”.

Do you all actually have the same concept in mind when you use the word “ally”? It might turn out that you are debating the pros and cons of being an “ally” but you all have different idea of what “ally” is under discussion.

So I’m interest to hear first, what is your idea of being an “ally” or in an “alliance”, and then you can explain why an “alliance” is good or bad, particularly in the present context.



Aqsuperman said:


> Hah this is indeed a funny deal.
> 
> 
> 
> First you demand something with a bit of depth then after i show you that i can do it then youjust outright declare even if i do, its will still be meaningless. The *double standard* is strong in this one. You simply cant take it that my *main point *is against the option about the alliance. Yet all you see that i "dont contribute" any solution and like i have forsave the whole nation.
> 
> 
> 
> *WHAT IS/ARE NECESSARY ? *What is it in your point then ? All i do is expressing what i see all the news about alliance in history and around the word now. *BUT YOU *claim that i "insulting" US allies. Then hopping around from this subject to another.
> 
> 
> 
> Pfff so i need to be alive at certain time period to argue history ? 500 years ago people belive that that the Earth is the center of the universe and up to the 18th centuries people still think that the Earth is flat. Just because many people spread and beilive in something does not automatically make it a truth that will last. One stuff that everybody know is the US POW problem that someone brought up to do nothing more than to promote a movie that made people think VN keep US POW and wont release them.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow such a nice explanation. Just happen to conveniently not include the Khmer Rouge and China in our North and Southwest border into the big picture. And the reason i use the "navy embargo" is in that time, sea is the most direct way of transportation. You cut it off and a country trading is stuck for good. But then this is mostly a minor issue. Why dont you bring out some clever analysis about the Khmer Rouge and China into VN economic ? You think that another nearly 2 decades of 2 front war wont effect anything ? Pfff and guess who give those guy the most support, surely not the Soviet and the Warsaw Pact ? And if that is not enough, guess how many economic sabotage from ex - RVN supported by US has been exposed.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow nice interpretation there. "Those who learned from history are doomed to repeat it" LOL LOL LOL really ? Cut out a word and its "equally true" ? Who vouch for that idea ? You ? What a great world i live in. You seem incapable to acknowledge that *i do *update recently events and you just can get it through your head.
> 
> 
> 
> One more point to show that you cant process my idea. I *OPPOSE *the military alliance. And then you start demanding i present another idea and presume i must have think for a "universal" solution. But truth is when i oppose something, i skip it and look for another way. Your assumption show to me that the *only way you want or have by all mean necessary *is military alliance. You dead stuck on it and wont let it go no matter what.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you sound like you or anyone here can do that. This is a forum for news, not a government post for taking people thoughts. But yeah, people do swarm to countries that they *think* offer them the best. And when shit dont work out, the country that they come from has to pay money for their flight ticket homes, irony eh ? But then you are still clinging to the idea about " single credible argument from you on how Viet Nam is to survive Chinese military onslaught". I show you tons of proof about how military alliance doesnt work and you still sound like its will work for 100% here ? You criticize me not to accept the alliance idea but have you know a successful model around yet ? So check this if you think that this alliance still work: ROKS Cheonan, a SK corvettes warship got sunk by North Korea torp in 2010, pretty much an act of war. You know the first move from the US command there ? Advise the South Korea not to take any action. Just the "usual" alert That is when they got more than US 30,000 troops there. Seem good to your senses ? People like *ME* keep stuff realistic, people like *YOU *keep living in the clouds. So if someone sunk one of VN war ship when VN in an alliance with US, will US come and hit them with us ? Hope you have an answer for that.
> 
> If there is an idea on the table and someone speak against it, you have to bring evidences what show otherwise, not things like "its will be different this time" or "Take it or bring a new ones". Its the argument from someone with a retarded mind.
> 
> You cant answer how VN will be able to enter an alliance that guarantee a swift respond both military and economic.
> You dont know a bit of the current event yet you dare to claim that people like me "live in the past"
> You know nothing, Jonh



OK since you are currently online, I will ask you first:

What do you mean by an “alliance”. Can you first define the meaning of it so we all are clear what you are talking about. Then explain why VN should not be involved in this form of “alliance”?

Actually, what you have written so far does not really answer why Vietnam should *not* be involved in an alliance. What you have done is given some examples from history how some “alliance” was proven worthless. But that is cherry picking because you deliberately ignore alliance that had proven productive. So giving examples from history alone is not a sufficient explanation of why Vietnam joining an alliance is bad, or good, because there have been historic examples for both the good and bad alliance. At best, this is just a flawed reasoning tactic called cherry picking. 

So you will still have to explain why Vietnam should *not* join an alliance with xyz, particularly in the present context, why is it bad? what are the reasons or your predicted outcome of this alliance that makes you think it is bad and need to be avoided?

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> To make sense of this debate, I think you all need to first clarify and define what you meant by the word “ally”.
> 
> Do you all actually have the same concept in mind when you use the word “ally”? It might turn out that you are debating the pros and cons of being an “ally” but you all have different idea of what “ally” is under discussion.
> 
> So I’m interest to hear first, what is your idea of being an “ally” or in an “alliance”, and then you can explain why an “alliance” is good or bad, particularly in the present context.
> 
> 
> 
> OK since you are currently online, I will ask you first:
> 
> What do you mean by an “alliance”. Can you first define the meaning of it so we all are clear what you are talking about. Then explain why VN should not be involved in this form of “alliance”?
> 
> Actually, what you have written so far does not really answer why Vietnam should *not* be involved in an alliance. What you have done is given some examples from history how some “alliance” was proven worthless. But that is cherry picking because you deliberately ignore alliance that had proven productive. So giving examples from history alone is not a sufficient explanation of why Vietnam joining an alliance is bad, or good, because there have been historic examples for both the good and bad alliance. At best, this is just a flawed reasoning tactic called cherry picking.
> 
> So you will still have to explain why Vietnam should *not* join an alliance with xyz, particularly in the present context, why is it bad? what are the reasons or your predicted outcome of this alliance that makes you think it is bad and need to be avoided?



Yes, I think that's part of the problem here. From my perspective, there is a de facto lose alliance with the US, but its super "light". Treaty alliance with mutual defense is another thing and it will not come free either.

I think people need to relax a bit. The article brought up some good points, but there is no need to go political here.

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## William Hung

gambit said:


> And it will be meaningless to everyone, including the Viets on this forum. At best, you will get a few 'Thanks' and a few posts praising how you stick it to the US, but in the end, you will have contributed *NOTHING*, even on the intellectual front, on how to solve Viet Nam's predicament.
> 
> 
> The issue is not what I like, but *WHAT IS/ARE NECESSARY*. Get that thru your head. Even Uncle Ho, at one time, felt it was necessary to put on a front for the US by way of quoting the US Constitution and it was good enough to fool people until this day.
> 
> 
> You already have.
> 
> 
> No, unlike communist countries, there are plenty of sources of news. So far, not one of them (plural), domestic US and foreign, ever said those communist atrocities did not occurred. Tell us, were you alive at that time ?
> 
> 
> An embargo ? That tell me that I should not take that 15 A4 pages from you seriously. Perhaps you mean a *BLOCKADE*.
> 
> A blockade is an act of war. That is when there are *PHYSICAL* measures to prevent access, in and out. Last I checked, there were no US fleets off the coast of Viet Nam and if I recall reading newspaper in the BI (Before Internet) era, Soviet ships docked in Cam Ranh Bay regularly, no ? So what 'embargo' are you talking about ?
> 
> An embargo is *VOLUNTARY*, meaning the US does not have any legal and physical measures to enforce its will. For your education, while the US government prevented US businesses from Viet Nam, tne JPNese and the SKReans were in country.
> 
> So why was Viet Nam an economic shithole ? To further your education, there is no right to trade, young man. Trade is a privilege, not a right. At best, I have the right to propose trade, but not to force it upon you. So if the Soviets, the Chinese, the Warsaw Pact, the JPNese, and the SKReans were trading with Viet Nam, why was Viet Nam that economic shithole ? Too embarrassed to admit that the Marxist experiment failed and that you must latch onto the most convenient scapegoat, the US ?
> 
> Write those 15 A4 pages, see if anyone cares when you have proven you do not know as much as you think when you cannot even distinguish the difference between an 'embargo' and a 'blockade'. If you are intellectually honest enough, you might include how much Soviet aid there were to Viet Nam after 1975.
> 
> 
> Actually, history matters a lot to people like me who thinks beyond history. Unlike people like you, we do not let history get in our way of progress.
> 
> George Santayana famous quote goes: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> The sad part is that the corollary is equally true: Those who learned from history are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> Why ? Because people like you imprisoned yourselves via the same history books since you failed to realize that there are different perspectives to the same event.
> 
> 
> The problem for you is that you believe, or at least think, that there must be a universal solution to all problems. Are the Viets identical to the Iraqis ? Why did the US able to support VN instead of Ukraine ? I guess that communist experiment must have succeeded for you since communists believes theirs is the universal solution so now you must believe there are fixed methods for everything.
> 
> 
> If you have to resort to this, that tells me you got nothing worthwhile to offer for the country we both came from.
> 
> To start off, I am in good company since the US is an immigrant nation.
> 
> Next, it seems you do not understand human nature as well as you think you do. A person's political allegiance often goes to the country that offers him the best opportunities to better his life. I do not see people swarming to become Vietnamese citizens. Do you ?
> 
> All of this is entertaining enough. I still do not see a single credible argument from you on how Viet Nam is to survive Chinese military onslaught other than the potential problems of alliances, which does not *DIRECTLY* address the problem in the first place.
> 
> Since you have demonstrated you do not understand the difference between an 'embargo' and a 'blockade'. If China succeed in gaining physical control of the South China Sea, it does not matter your view on alliances since China will make that decision for Viet Nam -- China will not care. Whether it is Viet Nam, the Philippines, or Indonesia, China will not care. In fact, China is counting on people like *YOU* to make her job easier. If Viet Nam is made to be all alone, what differences do alliances make regarding the SCS ? None. China will control Viet Nam's access to the seas and trade as you write those 15 A4 pages about how terrible the US was in those post WW II yrs.



Sir, I am also interested to know what you mean by the word “alliance”. Can you define it first? Then I would like to hear why you think joining an alliance is needed for Vietnam. I personally dont think a war will break out any time soon so can you clarify why you think VN needs to join an alliance? Or if you disagree with that then can you clarify what circumstances you think are possible and why you think VN needs to join an alliance in those circumstances?



Carlosa said:


> Yes, I think that's part of the problem here. From my perspective, there is a de facto lose alliance with the US, but its super "light". Treaty alliance with mutual defense is another thing and it will not come free either.
> 
> I think people need to relax a bit. The article brought up some good points, but there is no need to go political here.



Yep, even for the US, they have their own definition or degree of “alliance”, there are officially nato-ally, non-nato major ally, etc.

And other countries too will have different concept of “alliance”. That is why I think everyone debating here needs to first define what they meant by “alliance”.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> No I don´t forget India. But Japan shares more with Vietnam many things in common, not only because there are only 3 countries in the world knowing the Chinese in and out: Vietnam, Japan and Korea.



I don't agree about Japan being more valuable than India. I think both contribute, but I see the contribution from India about to become a lot bigger and in the things that count more. I don't see any weapons from Japan or much of a chance that the Japanese will get involved in the SCS, but India has oil fields there and is willing to send ships and confront the chinese if needed. I don't see that from the Japanese.



Viet said:


> Many people forget the US-Philippines defence treaty does not cover the islands in dispute in the South China sea. actually I really wonder why the Chinese do not dare to take more islands from the Philippines..



I didn't forget that, but still, it doesn't mean that you let the chinese walk over your ally. In my view, that was unacceptable



Viet said:


> no objection to India and Israel supporting our military build-up. but I believe, except Japan, no other country in the world will go an extra mile to build a military alliance with Vietnam. there are still too much sensibilities in Vietnam toward America, so I think it is not an option right now.



I don't see Japan going the extra mile for Vietnam at all. They already have a full plate with the chinese and just last week they were warned by the chinese that they will fire on their ships if the do freedom of navigation in SCS. Actually, I believe that India is the one wiling to confront the chinese in SCS (at the right time and for the right reasons).


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> I think people need to relax a bit. The article brought up some good points, but there is no need to go political here.



Actually, I would like to see this turned into a formal debate, with the topic “Should Vietnam join an alliance? With whom? Why or why not?”, maybe we can start a new thread for that.

Formal debate as in, each person gets allocated something like 3 or 4 posts each, with maximum and minimum words count, one person posting after another (responding to each other) with a time deadline given to them to make their posts. This way, the debate will be concise and straight to the point. 

It can be @gambit vs. @Aqsuperman 
or @gambit vs. @Silent Knight since they have opposing views.

Sirs, can we make this a formal debate similar to what I have suggested?


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## Aqsuperman

William Hung said:


> To make sense of this debate, I think you all need to first clarify and define what you meant by the word “ally”.
> 
> Do you all actually have the same concept in mind when you use the word “ally”? It might turn out that you are debating the pros and cons of being an “ally” but you all have different idea of what “ally” is under discussion.
> 
> So I’m interest to hear first, what is your idea of being an “ally” or in an “alliance”, and then you can explain why an “alliance” is good or bad, particularly in the present context.
> 
> 
> 
> OK since you are currently online, I will ask you first:
> 
> What do you mean by an “alliance”. Can you first define the meaning of it so we all are clear what you are talking about. Then explain why VN should not be involved in this form of “alliance”?
> 
> Actually, what you have written so far does not really answer why Vietnam should *not* be involved in an alliance. What you have done is given some examples from history how some “alliance” was proven worthless. But that is cherry picking because you deliberately ignore alliance that had proven productive. So giving examples from history alone is not a sufficient explanation of why Vietnam joining an alliance is bad, or good, because there have been historic examples for both the good and bad alliance. At best, this is just a flawed reasoning tactic called cherry picking.
> 
> So you will still have to explain why Vietnam should *not* join an alliance with xyz, particularly in the present context, why is it bad? what are the reasons or your predicted outcome of this alliance that makes you think it is bad and need to be avoided?



Its depend lots on what kind of benefit you can have. Alliance that only involve economic expanding and technology exchange, these field i totally approve. But an military alliance ? This type is unpredictable and unreliable in many case. We can all sing and drink wine to each other yet when time of hardship come, its every man for himself. All countries desire the best stuff for themselves, yet when blood and war come into the picture, who dare say its will be smooth sailing all the way.

Joining such alliance require commitments, you dont just get in that type easy. This reduce a country flexibility while handing diplomatic matters and even interfere with internal affairs. Cam Ranh bay open for both Russia and US ships as long as they obey the rule. That has always been the way VN do the stuff. If someone ask how VN can handle a China onslaught if not in an military alliance with the US, i ask can US fully commit itself to a country that half the globe away from him ? For this i do a head count. Not cherry picking or anything but the number of times that US failed to come in time or properly react against aggression toward its ally just happen to be larger than the time he does. And when i mean properly reaction, i mean if someone sunk 1 of my ship, you come and sunk 1 ship of that guy. 

Licensing technology or selling weapon from US? Sure. A military alliance with him ? Nah, im pass


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## William Hung

Aqsuperman said:


> Its depend lots on what kind of benefit you can have. Alliance that only involve economic expanding and technology exchange, these field i totally approve. But an military alliance ? This type is unpredictable and unreliable in many case. We can all sing and drink wine to each other yet when time of hardship come, its every man for himself. All countries desire the best stuff for themselves, yet when blood and war come into the picture, who dare say its will be smooth sailing all the way.
> 
> Joining such alliance require commitments, you dont just get in that type easy. This reduce a country flexibility while handing diplomatic matters and even interfere with internal affairs. Cam Ranh bay open for both Russia and US ships as long as they obey the rule. That has always been the way VN do the stuff. If someone ask how VN can handle a China onslaught if not in an military alliance with the US, i ask can US fully commit itself to a country that half the globe away from him ? For this i do a head count. Not cherry picking or anything but the number of times that US failed to come in time or properly react against aggression toward its ally just happen to be larger than the time he does. And when i mean properly reaction, i mean if someone sunk 1 of my ship, you come and sunk 1 ship of that guy.
> 
> Licensing technology or selling weapon from US? Sure. A military alliance with him ? Nah, im pass



Okay thats quite a good reply. Basically you are saying VN can not be sure of the US as a reliable military ally for VN and that VN joining an alliance would force inself into various commitments and render itself unflexible in various aspects. So put these two factors together, VN should not commit to such a “military” alliance, or that its not worth it.

That is quite a reasonable explanation. What would your respond to that be Sir @gambit?


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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> It can be @gambit vs. @Aqsuperman
> or @gambit vs. @Silent Knight since they have opposing views.


Thanks but no thanks.

From what I saw, members like gambit and hoangsa74 are former residents of Republic of Vietnam, who are still feeling bitter about their past. Also, they would denounce everything about Vietnam nowadays, blaming everything on the "communist regime".

I see no point in arguing with them, as I stand for the very basic principal of Vietnam:
- Do not join any military alliance or became a military ally of any country.
- Do not allow any country to put military base on Vietnam.
- Do not lean on any country to be against another country.

So, military cooperation with the US is a must, but become one of their lap dogs is not. As I said, case in point = the Philippines (Spratly Islands dispute), Georgia (2008 war), Ukraine (current situation).

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## BoQ77

any alliance require obligations of participants. Any participant joins an alliance for their benefits.

Give and receive. 

If Asean develop the APSC P for political S for security, Vietnam would join it. US may join it too. even China.
It is difficult to create a body with mission is to oppose unilaterally a country like China.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam says all will lose in any South China Sea war*
*http://www.thanhniennews.com/politics/vietnam-says-all-will-lose-in-any-south-china-sea-war-65659.html*





Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang warned on Tuesday there would be no winners in any armed conflict sparked by territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Quang, who is on a state visit to Singapore, told a forum that recent developments there were threatening regional security.

The Vietnamese leader did not mention any country but there is growing unease over China's actions.

China, which claims most of the South China Sea, has reclaimed reefs and built airstrips capable of hosting military equipment, sparking anger from competing claimants.

"The East Sea, located at the heart of Southeast Asia, not only brings about many important benefits to nations in the region but it is also a vital route to maritime and air transport of the world," Quang said, using the Vietnamese name of the sea.

But "recent worrying developments" there "have had a negative impact on the security environment of the region, especially maritime security and safety, freedom of navigation and overflight".

"And should we allow instability to take place, especially in the case of armed conflicts, there will be neither winners or losers but rather all will lose," he warned.

Tran was speaking to diplomats, academics and students at a forum organised by the ISEAS Yusof Ishak Institute.

Four Southeast Asian states -- Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam -- as well as Taiwan have competing claims in the sea.

Last month the Philippines won a case against China at a UN-backed tribunal in the Hague which rejected Beiijing's claims to most of the sea.

China boycotted the hearing and has refused to recognise the ruling.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> No I don´t forget India. But Japan shares more with Vietnam many things in common, not only because there are only 3 countries in the world knowing the Chinese in and out: Vietnam, Japan and Korea.


You undermining India,

India is the only country in Asia that hold 4000 KM long "ceasefire line", not border, but ceasefire line aka LAC against China. 

I am going to post some stories of real events and current situation of India China.

The above-mentioned plans were also the result of lessons drawn by the Indian Army from the Sumdorong Chu crisis of late 1986. Sumdorong Chu is in the Thagla Ridge area of Kameng District in Arunachal Pradesh from where the 1962 war started. After the Chinese unilateral withdrawal in 1962, Beijing had warned India not to enter certain areas evacuated by them. The routine of India’s small Intelligence Bureau (IB) detachment at Sumdorong Chu that left its border checkpost at Le for collection of salaries and rations was monitored by the PLA’s BDRs. One day in June 1986, when the IB personnel got back to the post after collecting supplies from a point near Nymjang Chu, the main river in North Kameng, they found it taken over by a PLA detachment that had built permanent barracks there and constructed a helipad which was then being used by the PLA’s newly acquired S-70C Black Hawks. This minor incident triggered off what came to be known as the Sumdorong Chu crisis between India and China. The Indian Army immediately retaliated by using the IAF’s newly-acquired Mi-26T helicopters to airlift troops and occupy a parallel ridge, known by the peaks Lurong La, Hathung La and Sulung La. In addition, two forward posts, Jaya and Negi, were set up across the Nymjang Chu river just below the ridge and only 10 metres from a Chinese forward post. At the peak of the Sumdorong Chu crisis in late 1986, three Mountain Divisions of IV Corps were pushed to the McMahon Line in Arunachal Pradesh. Two Divisions were deployed in Kameng District to defend Tawang, and a better part of the third Division was in Lohit District to defend Walong. Tawang was designated as the IV Corps’ vital area, which had to be defended at all costs (as per the political directive). Extremely strong field artillery elements—especially the just-arrived Bofors FH-77Bs, were placed in support of the troops in Tawang. The then COAS, Gen K Sundarji, under OP TRIDENT, ordered airlifting of field artillery ammunition estimated at hundreds of million rupees to be stockpiled in the forward areas. The field artillery units deployed near Tawang commanded the complete zone over which PLA re-enforcements would come in case of a crisis. Gen Sundarji also used the IAF’s new air-lift capabilities (thanks to the IL-76MDs and Mi-26Ts) to land a Brigade in Zimithang, north of Tawang, and a makeshift helicopter-base close to Sumdorong Chu. Indian forces also took up positions on the Hathung La ridge, across the Namka Chu River, where India had faced a humiliating defeat in 1962. By October 1986, eight reinforced Division-sized formations of the PLA hailing from the Chengdu MR, which took up to 20 days to travel non-stop by road from Chengdu via Lhasa, were facing two Indian Mountain Divisions deployed in a holding role to secure Tawang. HQ IV Corps deployed a total of three Mountain Divisions on the line with formations of HQ III Corps acting as reserves. To cater for an escalation of hostilities, vital areas and vital points which form the framework of a border conflict with China received very heavy deployments catering for the entire border length, especially in North Sikkim. However, sensible people in Delhi and Beijing reckoned that nothing worthwhile would come out of the conflict, and the situation was sought to be eased through back-channel diplomacy. Yet, a clear message had gone to China: India had the political will and the military muscle to defend itself. Once OP TRIDENT was completed, Army HQ ordered the then GOC-in-C Eastern Command, Lt Gen V N Sharma, to forcibly evict the PLA garrisons from Sumdorong Chu. This is when the shit hit the fan, as Lt Gen V N Sharma asked Gen Sundarji for instructions on follow-up actions in case the PLA, in retaliation, would decide to employ tactical nuclear weapons. Both Indian Army HQ and the then Govt of India were totally unprepared for this scenario (since India had not yet embarked on a nuclear weaponisation programme) and were therefore faced with an enormous debacle. Consequently, there was no other option for India, but to blink first. Subsequently, liaison channels between R & AW and China’s Ministry for Public Security were activated for arriving at a mutually acceptable de-escalation/draw-down schedule.

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## Viet

courtesy to Xinhua

Chinese Defense Minister Chang Wanquan (L front) holds a welcoming ceremony for his Vietnamese counterpart Ngo Xuan Lich before their talks in Beijing, capital of China, Aug. 30, 2016. (Xinhua/Ding Haitao)

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## Farhan Bohra

Since 1982, the modus operandi of China’s military incursions in both Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh has been to scare Indian herdsmen into abandoning grazing land and then to construct permanent military structures like helipads. It is such actions that led to two specific politico-military events: the Thandrong Incident, followed by the Sumdorong Chu Incident, which are now collectively known in diplomatic circles as the Wangdung Affair. Though no official records of these events/affairs have been de-classified as yet by the Govt. of India, only THREE (03) near-authentic recollections that have been published so far in India, and they are being detailed for the very first time below:

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## Farhan Bohra

@Viet Now think this if tomorrow PLA bypass the well defended LAC and invade Bhutan and Nepal, what will India do? Obviously then Indian Army have to deploy in Nepal and Bhutan to keep them out of Indian border. 
*
The IA’s OP-PLANs*

India’s military posture against China in Ladakh, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh is to maintain full strategic defence with minor tactical offensive capabilities. Given the politico-operational compulsions, difficult terrain, and the PLA’s track record, it is clear that the Indian Army (IA) was, until the previous decade, was doing an onerous task. For instance, Sikkim has an area of approximately 8,000sqkm, measuring 113km north to south, and 64km from east to west with heights rising up to 28,000 feet. Militarily, the state is divided into north and east Sikkim. Due to a central massif, north Sikkim is further divided into the Muguthang Valley in the west, the Kerang Plateau in the east, and north-east Sikkim. The Lachung, Lachen and Muguthang Valleys in north Sikkim prevent any lateral movement. 







Of the 14 passes along the 206km-long Sikkim-TAR border, six are all-weather, implying that these are open throughout the year. Three each of these passes are in north and east Sikkim, these being Kongra La, Bomcho La, Sese La, Nathu La (at 14,438 feet in east Sikkim), Batang La and Doka La. Unlike the passes in north-east and east Sikkim, the passes on the watershed border in north Sikkim are fairly wide and motorable. Being windswept, they remain relatively free from snow and are open throughout the year. The watershed and the adjoining Tibetan Plateau are devoid of any cover. 






The terrain in north and north-east Sikkim is more difficult, rugged and formidable, with the altitude rising suddenly and steeply (one can travel from 5,000 feet to 14,000 feet in just about 60km) than east Sikkim, where surface communications are better developed due to its proximity to the northern West Bengal plains. India’s 435km-long border with Nepal includes a 125km border between Nepal and Sikkim, of which about 50km is most inhospitable. Consequently, the only available area with existing land and air transportation networks that can host armoured/mechanised/tactical aviation/UAV assets is northern West Bengal, from where they can be swiftly deployed to bolster the IA’s positions opposite Bhutan’s Dolam Plateau. Any PLA move into Dolam means that India’s border with China gets distorted at Sikkim’s tri-junction with Bhutan. It also means that the PLA moves a few kilometres south from where they originally were. It brings them closer to northern West Bengal’s Siliguri Corridor. China has always laid claim to Dolam. On the east the Dolam Plateau is skirted by the Amo Chhu stream that flows north-south from the Chumbi Valley to Bhutan and then enters West Bengal at Jaldhaka where the state government has a hydel project. The tri-junction is roughly equidistant from the two Indian Army posts at Doka La (bordering Bhutan) and Batang La (bordering China). Dokala overlooks Dolam, which is at a lower altitude. The Dolam Valley is a largely-barren 20 sq km plateau that is ideal for armourted manoeuvre warfare, just like the terrain in eastern Ladakh.






In Ladakh, the IA has since mid-1999 witnessed persistent PLA transgressions-in-strength at the Depsang Bulge, Trig Heights, Spanggur Gap and Chip Chap Valley in northeastern Ladakh. During wartime, the PLA’s probable intention would be to enter from the south of the Karakoram Range and cross the Shyok River from the east. The PLA has also moved motorised forces into Charding Nalla since 2009 and they could eventually threaten the Manali-Leh route. 











China thus is estimated to want to push Indian control to the left of Shyok River in the north and left of the Indus River in the east, possibly to establish both rivers as natural boundaries. In Chushul, the aim is to reach Luking to take control of the entire Pangong Tso Lake. This three-pronged strategy would make India defenceless both in the Indus Valley and the Nubra Valley.






In mid-2009, India’s Ministry of Defence approved the IA’s plans for raising three independent armoured brigades (each inclusive of two tank regiments with T-72 Combat Improved Ajeya medium tanks and one mechanised infantry regiment with BMP-2K Sarath ICVs). While each tank regiment has since early 2014 been equipped with 58 T-72CIAs, the mechanised infantry regiments each possess 70 BMP-2Ks. Of these threenew Independent Armoured Brigades, one is located in Ladakh (under the Leh-HQed XIV Corps), another in Uttarakhand and the third in Kalimpong under the XXXIII ‘Trishakti’ Corps that is HQed in Sukna near the city of Siliguri. The Brigade in Ladakh is responsible for the protection of passes like Lanak La, Kongka La, Rezang La, Chang La and Jara La. In Uttarakhand, the Brigade is responsible for securing the passes in Mana, Niti, Kungri Bingri, Darma, and Lipulekh. In Sikkim, the third Brigade is responsible for securing the Dolam Plateau. These formations are being supplemented by a string of Advance Landing Grounds (ALG) capable of accommodating the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) C-130H-30 Super Hercules transport aircraft, newly-built Army Aviation Corps bases capable of housing LUHs and Rudra helicopter-gunships, plus a string of rear-area MALE-UAV air bases operated and owned by the IA. 

Also, new border roads/bridges and railway lines are being built not just for facilitating the movement of armoured/mechanised formations (transported mostly by wheeled transporters), but also field artillery howitzers like the soon-to-be-acquired LW-155/M-777 ultralightweight howitzers that will be used for providing indirect fire-support for 99 Mountain Brigade, which is part of the 6 Mountain Division, the formation that is in charge of protecting India’s borders in Uttarakhand with China. For securing the Shipki pass in Himachal Pradesh, an existing mechanised infantry battalion has been deployed there and will come under IX Corps, headquartered at Yol in Himachal Pradesh.

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## Farhan Bohra

The IA’s independent armoured brigades in Ladakh, northern West Bengal and Uttarkhand will thus be supported in wartime by not just ISTR assets like MALE-UAVs (numbering more than 50), but also by at least 45 Rudra helicopter gunships armed with PGMs like the HELINA, an equal number of LUHs, and 145 LW-155/M-777 UFHs, with air-maintenance of rear-area logistics networks being provided by the IAF’s C-130H-30s, CH-47F Chinooks and Mi-17V-5s. 








For localised air-defence, both the IA and IAF have since 2011 deployed their respective stocks of manportable air-defence radars to forward locations along the Sino-Indian LAC to keep track of the PLA’s routine airspace transgressions—something that should have been done as far back as 2008. While the IAF’s DRDO-developed and Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL)-built S-band Aslesha three-dimensional radars have been deployed at Nyoma, Chushul and Fukche, the Army-specific Bharani manportable radars have been deployed at Demchok and Pangong Tso in Ladakh, as well as at two locations in Uttarakhand and Sikkim. 






The Aslesha, which weighs 250kg, uses low-probability-of-intercept frequencies to look out for terrain-hugging tactical UAVs and helicopters over mountainous terrain out to 50km. The IAF has to date ordered 21 of them, and first deliveries took place in January 2008. On the other hand, the Bharani is a two-dimensional L-band gapfiller system now in series-production for the Army. It has a range of 40km and can track up to 100 airborne targets. To date, 16 Bharanis—meant to be used in conjunction with SHORADS like the SpyDer-SR—have been delivered.






For theatre-wide deep surveillance across the LAC, the IAF already possesses EL/M-2060P pod-mounted synthetic aperture radars, as well as the first two of 11 Bombardier 5000 jets equipped with belly-mounted SAR sensors and ELINT sensors—all of which have given the IAF far superior ISTR capabilities when compared to those available to the PLAAF.






@Viet Lastly, one should know your enemy that how much they are involved in different theaters. 

And seriously, thats why I love Vietnam and Japanese defence threads.

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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Pffff and how that type of alliance work for these countries: South Vietnam ? Georgia ? Royal Cambodia and Laos ? They all have US as a devoted ally, what happen to them ? Did they win ? NOPE. Thais armed forces are for coup and parade, not for fighting, just like the ARVN. Proof ? VN has many minorities and religions, not a single significant arm insurgency or bombing since 1980s with the "primitive" equipment. Thailand with that "majestic" army cant even properly secure his southern part of the country. And not to mention Philippine, "exercising" with the US whenever China take a reef from his hand like Scarborough reef for an example. You like "Oh Let get in an alliance, we will be 1000% safe""Let buys F-35, its can shoot down 1000 planes before requiring a landing". The type of alliance that gets you a military protection require a near total - control of 1 country to another. That country say A you say A, tell B you tell B. And if that country go to war, you go to war with him. Its not easy as "Hey, lets be ally, you protect me while i show you my gratitude". Only people that cant read online news and drown in a pool of illusion made from their own limited knowledge of history facts can think otherwise.
> 
> Naval infantry equipment. I personally think that Israel stuffs are on the rise in our army.


what r u smoking, comrade? *230,000* allied troops died and wounded on behalf of RVN. How many Chinese or soviets troops died and wounded for north Vietnam? Zero, right?. yeah, the soviet n Chinese fought the u.s in Vietnam to the last vc fighter and all u get is tap in the back for being the 3rd most "powerful" military, u r awesome, u beat the u.s, u stronk blah blah blah. You lost over 1 million dead or wounded, lol. If term of geopolitics, u r way behind the RVN; I mean really way behind. The RVN got weapons and men died and wounded for them. You on the other hand, were nothing but cannon fodders in exchange for a few ak47. 

Not a single soul in this forum or this world believes that u stand a chance against Thailand military, let alone a giant like China. Thailand's anti tank forces, armour vehicles, and tanks will roll over your military in a heart beat. That's the reason why your leaders are begging and lobbying over the years for the u.s to lift the arms embargo. The u.s will not sell weapons to any country if they do not listen to the u.s no EXCEPTION; ie being a lab dog by your definition and your leadership is on the path to being a lab dog of the U.S whether u bo doi like it or not. Buying weapons from the u.s is a *PRIVILEGE*, it is not your right. I repeat again, it is a *PRIVILEGE*, not a right. A few chump change from a communist won't make a dent in the U.S annual budget of hundred of billions of dollars. You want weapons and license production from the U.S without being a lab dog? In your dream, comrade. What r u? A beggar? You only receive, but not give? What does the u.s get in return for helping u? A few chump change?

Don't count too much on those Russian junks can do for you when the real time comes, comrade. The Russian will give away the location of your submarines to the Chinese in a heart beat or they will disable for jets in mid air n u don't even know why. the Russian is making hundred of billions of dollars by selling oil and gas to the Chinese; u would be a fool if u believe a few chump change from Vietnam is more important to the Russian than hundreds of billions of dollars from the Chinese. The U.S otoh, is having an annual trade deficit of $300 billion with the chinese; that's the difference. The Chinese is gaining by trading with the U.S. The U.S will unload the Chinese in a heart beat.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> Not a single soul in this forum or this world believes that u stand a chance against Thailand military, let alone a giant like China. Thailand's anti tank forces, armour vehicles, and tanks will roll over your military in a heart beat. .



I'm not interested in getting into the political thing, but you are really delusional about Thailand. Is Thailand that doesn't stand a chance either in the ground, air or naval. And lets not even talk about their willingness to fight, because on that department, the difference is even worse. I know Thailand and Thai people very, very well. They are the first ones to run. They don't have the balls to fight. I used to live in Thailand, I know military people related to the Thai military, I know what I'm talking about. You don't have a clue about the Thai military and don't try to tell me about their equipment, which is mostly old crap and what is modern, they only have in very small quantities. Even tiny Laos beat them up in the past.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

*PM Narendra Modi’s Vietnam visit is to signal India’s presence in South-East Asia*
*http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...e-in-south-east-asia/articleshow/53903141.cms*
NEW DELHI: Narendra Modi's to visit Vietnam on September 3 enroute to China for the G-20 Summit signaling India's growing strategic presence in South East Asia in Beijing's periphery. Delhi is expected to offer additional support to Hanoi's military establishment, including finance and training, assistance to space sector, greater investments besides acquiring possible stakes in supplementary hydrocarbon blocks.

While the highlight of PM's day-long visit will be signing of contract for supply of four patrol boats to Vietnamese military under the $100 -million line of credit that was extended during its PM's India visit in October 2014, India could offer additional financial support in building capacity of Hanoi's military establishment and may increase quota for training of armed forces personnel and undertake further repair and maintenance of defence hardware, hinted persons familiar with the developments. India's support to Vietnam's defence sector is aimed at augmenting capacity of the Southeast Asian nation's military establishment.

Vietnam — the current country coordinator for India in the ASEAN -- has an expanding strategic partnership with India in the region in more than one way. Today, Hanoi besides Singapore is among the two top strategic partners in ASEAN. While the growing defence partnership --based on common Russian military platform — has captured the popular imagination, maritime and cyber security covers the other areas of security cooperation, hinted official sources. A key outcome of the visit could be a document on cyber security partnership.

Built on the bonhomie of the Cold War era when India extended emotional and moral support to the forces fighting American military, Delhi and Hanoi have drawn closer to each other over the past decade amid China's growing aggression and ambitions in SE Asia including South China Sea (SCS) region. That he chose to visit Vietnam, a claimant in SCS, ahead of China and later Laos for East and ASEAN Summits itself has a symbolic significance.

Experts of India-Vietnam affairs, however, point out that both sides prefer to keep key strands of the strategic partnership under wraps to avoid reaction from Beijing. While India is not militarily active in South China Sea (SCS) region and advocates peaceful resolution, Delhi has asserted that it favours rules based global order based on UNCLOS and against unilateral actions after the Arbitration Court in Hague on July 12 dismissed Beijing's historical claims in SCS in a case vis a vis Philippines.

India has been advocating Freedom of Navigation in international waters including SCS --key sea lane of communication for substantial part of India's global trade. It may be recalled Vietnam is the only country in the region whose military has experience of fighting China in late 1970s, 1980s and again in mid 1990s over territorial matters including claims in SCS.


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## Silent Knight

Whoa, wall of text everywhere. Here's some photos and news with less text.

Vietnam has successfully performed field test of the self-produced 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition for the TAR-21 assault rifles.





Two Su-22Ms have been donated to the Air Force Museum in Hanoi. These two aircrafts were used for patrolling the Spratly Islands from 1980 to 2000. They were previously decommissioned and left out in the open in the 923rd Fighter Regiment.

5821 and 5831 are the two with covered tail.





In the museum with fresh paint.






And the VPAF order of battle in the next 10 years, probably.

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## Viet

@Farhan Bohra

I believe after reading the texts you provided I will become an expert in India/China relation


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## Viet

Molynia M5/M6 guided missile corvettes

Welcome to the Navy


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## gambit

William Hung said:


> Okay thats quite a good reply. Basically you are saying VN can not be sure of the US as a reliable military ally for VN and that VN joining an alliance would force inself into various commitments and render itself unflexible in various aspects. So put these two factors together, VN should not commit to such a “military” alliance, or that its not worth it.
> 
> That is quite a reasonable explanation. What would your respond to that be Sir @gambit?


A large chunk of my work day involves various meetings to discuss issues from technical to production. As engineering representative from my area, my task is to take notes of those issues and try to implement solutions.

The one thing that troubleshooters like me really hate is whining without providing even an idea of a solution.

Viet Nam should not enter an alliance because of A thru Z. Fine. In principle, that is high ideal. In fact, the US originally lived that way. Do not get involved in foreign affairs.

But now that Viet Nam is being threatened by an aggressive China with clearly superior military might. Whine about the US ? Fine. What is your solution ? Give me, at least on the intellectual level, an idea of a solution. I will try to flesh out the details and create tools to create a solution. Do not whine and expect me to solve the problem.

That is the biggest pet peeve I have towards those who pretentiously put themselves as 'intellectuals' on various matters. What you called of his advice that Viet Nam *SHOULD NOT* get into alliances as reasonable is anything but.

Refusal to get into alliances maybe high minded principle, but rarely worked in real life. The definition of 'geopolitics' is about how geography *INEVITABLY* forces countries into alliances. The man criticized me for not taking history seriously and yet he is the one who does not recognize that fact and truth.

Do any Viet here really in critical thinking genuinely believes that if China believe Viet Nam will not get into an alliance with the US, or anyone else for that matter, that China will treat Viet Nam as an equal ? If history is any of an instructor, the answer is a huge f-cking *NO*.

If the advice is that Viet Nam should not get into alliance, then the Chinese will ask among themselves: Why *SHOULD* China treat Viet Nam as an equal ?

What is 'should' or 'should not' for one is not always applicable to the next. Self interests overrules all. For the Chinese, if it is in China's self interests that Viet Nam, the Philippines, and Indonesia are forcibly submissive regarding the SCS, China should act towards the fulfillment of those self interests. Damnation for Viet Nam, the Philippines, and Indonesia. When Viet Nam is under China's boot, the man will find something else to whine about.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Molynia M5/M6 guided missile corvettes
> 
> Welcome to the Navy


Not yet, that's just the sea trial. We'll have to wait until the commission ceremony and then they'll receive naval designation.


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## gambit

William Hung said:


> Sir, I am also interested to know what you mean by the word “alliance”. Can you define it first?


An alliance is when two or more parties temporarily unite and work towards accomplishing shared goals. Nothing complicated about it.



William Hung said:


> Then I would like to hear why you think joining an alliance is needed for Vietnam. I personally dont think a war will break out any time soon so can you clarify why you think VN needs to join an alliance? Or if you disagree with that then can you clarify what circumstances you think are possible and why you think VN needs to join an alliance in those circumstances?


Poland had a military alliance with Britain and France but that alliance was undermined by Britain's Chamberlain, who had (groundless) faith that Hitler could be reasoned with. In essence, Hitler turned to war because he was (correctly) confident that the alliances before him were weak when they were formed.

An alliance does not guarantee there will be no war, but at least it would give a potential threat pause to reconsider the consequences of war.

Our friend here is saying that Viet Nam should learn from history. Which version is he talking about ? For every instance he can bring up that could discourage Viet Nam from entering an alliance, there is an instance where it is *EQUALLY* compelling that Viet Nam should enter an alliance.

Our friend brought up what happened to South Viet Nam -- that the US abandoned an ally to communism.

Fair enough of a warning.

So let us take a look at Viet Nam's situation *TODAY*...

When the Soviet Union collapsed, Viet Nam lost a major source of economic aid. To survive, Vietnamese communists had to do the ideological unthinkable -- to allow capitalism in the country. As if that was not humiliating enough a public admission that the communist experiment failed miserably, Viet Nam practically begged foreigners for help and to do it quick. The JPNese, SKReans, Taiwanese, Canada, and a few Europeans responded.

Despite the economic growth, militarily speaking, Viet Nam is *STILL* a 3rd world power. She produce no indigenous arms and have to import her defenses. Much, if not most, of Viet Nam's trade comes from access to the seas. Never mind the land victories Viet Nam had against China in that border conflict in 1979, sea warfare is different and analyses does not favor the Vietnamese Navy. On land, combatants can use terrain to their advantages if they are shrewd enough. At sea, the quickest route between two points is truly the direct path and the navy with the fastest ships set the battle scenes. Land can be fenced off, but not water. So while China cannot fenced off the South China Sea, China can muster up enough naval force to effectively control access to the area.

If not an alliance, then what other options ? Negotiations with China ? That is even more laughable an idea than an alliance with the US.

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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> .* You like "Oh Let get in an alliance, we will be 1000% safe""Let buys F-35, its can shoot down 1000 planes before requiring a landing*".


Right, so u tell me what kind of military solution for u to be able to keep the Spratly without having the F-35 or the F-15 Silent Eagle? The answer is that u don't have a military solution. You don't have the technology edge or even the quantity to measure up to China. 

You don't want a military alliance so u believe vn alone can beat china in a war over the spratly. I'm interested to hear your super opinion on how vn can defend the spratly from an all out air and naval assault from China. I'm sure all forum members will too.


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## Silent Knight

"Produce no indigenous arms", the discussion is pointless with those who do not have any idea about the subject these days.

Anyhow, the damaged Su-27SK back when it was in temporary storage.


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## Aqsuperman

hoangsa74 said:


> Right, so u tell me what kind of military solution for u to be able to keep the Spratly without having the F-35 or the F-15 Silent Eagle? The answer is that u don't have a military solution. You don't have the technology edge or even the quantity to measure up to China.
> 
> You don't want a military alliance so u believe vn alone can beat china in a war over the spratly. I'm interested to hear your super opinion on how vn can defend the spratly from an all out air and naval assault from China. I'm sure all forum members will too.



Either you are have trouble reading or you just dont get through the point so lets slip it into 2 parts for you tiny gray matter to absorb it. Not to mention the relative stupid comment about the US weapon so let bright up your head a bit.

1/ Ngo Dinh Diem, heard of that guy ? 1 shot in the head just because ? Yeah , "a lab dog that rise against its owner" by my definition

2/ RVN way better ? Pfff want to compared dead and wounded ? 1945 - 1975 modafcker, 30 years with near full support from 2 member of UN Security Council and State of Vietnam and then RVN cant even keep their head straight and stand on your feet. You know why the US abandon South Vietnam and not South Korea? Because they know RVN is nothing more than a bunch of maggots that feed into their economic forever and will not result in anything good. Well just say that screaming for US military support every time RVN about to collapse sound really strong and dependable lol. in the entire Vietnam War, there was not a single direct foreign combat troops in the NVA ground rank, in the other hand there is nearly 1.5 millions allied troops ( Which around 65,000 eventually bite the dust),..........and they still cant win. Why ? "Oh because US withdraw their support so we cant "fight" as comfortably as before so we may just jump to Cali and continue to feed like leeches on the US budget". Pfff the captured RVN weapon support the united VN for another 20 years of war in the Southern border so wonder how the their origin owner keep screaming they cant fight.

3/Lol i just love the way your words backfire *IN YOU FACE *when you proudly claim that "not a single soul" will believe me :v US weapon ? Have them will be good, lose them wont be much of a hassle. The fact that the RVN die hard on US weapon get them kicked hard right in the testicle is a good prove of that. Russia junk ? Pfff love the tongue of a retarded comment on stuff that he cant even know. You ever lay your hand on a SA - 7 ? That guy blow up plenty of US Phantom and even AC-130, is it bad ? "Oh i dont know, all i have as biased comment about Us weapon" Want to go deeper and compare AK-47 and M-16 to see if you *actually *know about weapon ? Because with that almighty comment about Thailand Army i think you dont know crap about as long as the name sound "US - like"

People keep pointing what happen if VN dont join and "Will VN is able to stand alone" ? Yet no one one dare to give me a concrete answer for "IF VN join such an alliance, will US fully commit itself to us ?" Not facking sufficient answer around. Resisting China onslaught ? Pfff so you are saying by joining an alliance, US will stand with us to the end and not disappear when the dead count reach 60,000 ? 1971 US did hard to kill any communist, 1972 visit China and make pact, switch to kill the Soviet. The primary US enemy up until now is still Russia. You guys think that 2 UN security council will go to war to each other just because some "alliance" ? Possible if Japan or South Korea come into the mix but a country like that faraway ? Why ? Travel routes ? A few under the table negotiations is all it take, why war for a country that has nothing to do with you ? The question is never was and will never be " Can VN stand alone if not in an alliance" when you guys want to talk about alliance. The *PRIMARY *question is if going to stick more than a piece of paper and talks. Keep screaming that China will own us but also know that this alliance crap will just end up the same. US dont has the gut to punish North Korea militarily when him blow up a South Korean ship, so *WHY *he has to do anything more than some marginally "protests" if China take the entire spratly islands ? He will do what then if VN is in an alliance with him ? Blow shit up with another nuclear country that has 1/6th population of the world and take back our islands ? The moment someone came up with a answer for this i feel that i dont have to participate in this endless loop argument since no one here can guarantee anything.


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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Either you are have trouble reading or you just dont get through the point so lets slip it into 2 parts for you tiny gray matter to absorb it. Not to mention the relative stupid comment about the US weapon so let bright up your head a bit.
> 
> 1/ Ngo Dinh Diem, heard of that guy ? 1 shot in the head just because ? Yeah , "a lab dog that rise against its owner" by my definition
> 
> 2/ RVN way better ? Pfff want to compared dead and wounded ? 1945 - 1975 modafcker, 30 years with near full support from 2 member of UN Security Council and State of Vietnam and then RVN cant even keep their head straight and stand on your feet. You know why the US abandon South Vietnam and not South Korea? Because they know RVN is nothing more than a bunch of maggots that feed into their economic forever and will not result in anything good. Well just say that screaming for US military support every time RVN about to collapse sound really strong and dependable lol. in the entire Vietnam War, there was not a single direct foreign combat troops in the NVA ground rank, in the other hand there is nearly 1.5 millions allied troops ( Which around 65.000 eventually bite the dust),..........and they still cant win. Why ? "Oh because US withdraw their support so we cant "fight" as comfortably as before so we may just jump to Cali and continue to feed like leeches on the US budget". Pfff the captured RVN weapon support the united VN for another 20 years of war in the Southern border so wonder how the their origin owner keep screaming they cant fight.
> 
> 3/Lol i just love the way your words backfire *IN YOU FACE *when you proudly claim that "not a single soul" will believe me :v


Let me repeat myself again, 230,000 allied troops died and wounded on behalf of RVN. How many troops died and wounded on behalf of the VC? ZERO. Talking about being stupid; you cummunists got spinned around like a circus clowns. No Russian or Chinese troops died on your behalf. The Russian and Chinese fought the American in Vietnam to the last viet konk, LOL.

Now, let me rub it in your face again. What kind of a military solution do you have for keeping the spratly? Not a soul in this world believe you have a solution for China


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## Carlosa

Just one observation here. There is one aspect of alliance that has not been considered here and that is the prospect of alliance as a deterrent. I guess that would fall under the first option of the article, the hedging.

It would go as follows: Vietnam can say, hey, I don't want to escalate things, but if you keep pushing me and if you take the islands, then we are going to be forced to give USA unrestricted access and you are going to have the Americans in your land border. Do you really want to have that?

Of course that's the last thing the chinese want. So the hedging still has a lot of power in it.

My 2 cents.


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## Silent Knight

Lulz, a combine allied force could not defeat a single underpowered enemy and the one who lost are proud about it.

Just put it this way. No Russian or Chinese died on behalf of North Vietnam because we denied their request to join active combat. We single-handedly drived away the US master and the allies, then crushing the "almighty" RVN in just 2 years. Salty, isn't it?

No wonder why the crying like "Communism will collapse this year" is still being heard all those years.

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## BoQ77

You are living in Moon not to see Vietnam military solution for keeping the Spratly.
So who is keeping Spratly islands for decades ? you ?


hoangsa74 said:


> Now, let me rub it in your face again. What kind of a military solution do you have for keeping the spratly? Not a soul in this world believe you have a solution for China



Any Vietnam territory should be protected directly by Vietnamese, for Vietnamese interests.


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## Aqsuperman

hoangsa74 said:


> Let me repeat myself again, 230,000 allied troops died and wounded on behalf of RVN. How many troops died and wounded on behalf of the VC? ZERO. Talking about being stupid; you cummunists got spinned around like a circus clowns. No Russian or Chinese troops died on your behalf. The Russian and Chinese fought the American in Vietnam to the last viet konk, LOL.
> 
> Now, let me rub it in your face again. What kind of a military solution do you have for keeping the spratly? Not a soul in this world believe you have a solution for China



Check my edited post, shithead. Post it a bit early by mistake.


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## Aqsuperman

Nice choice of words there ! Lets see how the mod will see about this.

And surely you are not the person that stay in the White House so you can decide crap about our successful rate of obtaining technology so screaming the logic that lead you to hang on the helicopter fleeing SVN sound really "impressing"/ Sure, let avoid the main topic and use the phrase "uneducated cummie" and "rape". That will also allow you to have a brand new account sooner or later


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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Nice choice of words there ! Lets see how the mod will see about this.
> 
> And surely you are not the person that stay in the White House so you can decide crap about our successful rate of obtaining technology so screaming the logic that lead you to hang on the helicopter fleeing SVN sound really "impressing"/ Sure, let avoid the main topic and use the phrase "uneducated cummie" and "rape". That will also allow you to have a brand new account sooner or later


Then get back to the topic and show the world on how the mighty lonely vn military can withstand an air and naval onslaught from China in the spratly?


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## Aqsuperman

Pff you just cant read the giant "*PRIMARY" *and you dont even understand my point in questioning the entire alliance ordeal. You just babbling about how almighty Thailand armed force and proclaim that no one here will believe me. then someone with clear knowledge come in and you just "play it down", "pretend i never said that". Oh that just downright pathetic. 

And now i will just wait for the mods to come and exterminate your kind. Have fun


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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Pff you just cant read the giant "*PRIMARY" *and you dont even understand my point in questioning the entire alliance ordeal. You just babbling about how almighty Thailand armed force and proclaim that no one here will believe me. then someone with clear knowledge come in and you just "play it down", "pretend i never said that". Oh that just downright pathetic.
> 
> *And now i will just wait for the mods to come and exterminate your kind*. Have fun


other than calling for the mods to come in n rescue u, what kind of military solution do you have for keeping the spratly?


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## Silent Knight

hoangsa74 said:


> other than calling for the mods to come in n rescue u, what kind of military solution do you have for keeping the spratly?


Not friendly-firing on each others and fleeing with tail between legs to Philippines like you boys in Paracel Islands 1974 maybe?


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## hoangsa74

Silent Knight said:


> Not friendly-firing on each others and fleeing with tail between legs to Philippines like you boys in Paracel Islands 1974 maybe?


They fired the first shot, killed 18 Chinese n sunk 2 boats. Unlike those shooting targets who stood there at south Johnson reef getting blown away without even having the balls to fire the first shot, second shot, third shot, nth shot.


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## ChineseTiger1986

hoangsa74 said:


> They fired the first shot, killed 18 Chinese n sunk 2 boats. Unlike those shooting targets who stood there at south Johnson reef getting blown away without even having the balls to fire the first shot, second shot, third shot, nth shot.



Thank you for telling the truth.

That's why we took back our island fair and square.


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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> other than calling for the mods to come in n rescue u, what kind of military solution do you have for keeping the spratly?


how Vietnam can defend the spratlys?

how about buying this novel from Amazon store for $9.99? 

It tells you everything you need to know how it starts until the bitter end. Unter the pretext of major military exercises, China en masse the largest ever number of warships with the plan attacking the islands held by Vietnam, Japan and Philippines from the east to south china sea. but Vietnam intel captures the invasing plan, deciding to take the first step by launching preemptive strike on the sole chinese aircraft carrier.









_While trailing a Chinese nuclear attack sub, Jerry Mitchell, the captain of USS North Dakota, is shocked to see the Chinese boat torpedo a Vietnamese merchant ship. 

This blatant act of aggression is the opening gambit in a war that has blindsided the U.S. and quickly embroiled all nations in the western Pacific. These nations, bound together in the newly formed Littoral Alliance, have begun a covert submarine campaign aimed at crippling China's economy before China can set in motion its own plot to dominate the region.

In a desperate attempt to buy the president enough time to resolve the crisis diplomatically, Mitchell's submarine squadron is ordered to interfere with attacks by both sides. China and the Littoral Alliance are both determined to win, no matter the cost, and as each side increases the level of violence, they approach a dangerous tipping point. Larry Bond's Shattered Trident is a race against time, as the submarines of Mitchell's squadron must execute their mission before the world witnesses an economic catastrophe―or worse, a nuclear exchange._

Larry Bond


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> how Vietnam can defend the spratlys?
> 
> how about buying this novel from Amazon store for $9.99?
> It tells you everything you need to know how it starts until the bitter end. Unter the pretext of major military exercises, China en masse the largest ever number of warships attacking the islands held by Vietnam, Japan and Philippines. Vietnam intel captures the invasing plan, deciding the take the first step by launching an preemptive strike on the Lioning aircraft carrier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _While trailing a Chinese nuclear attack sub, Jerry Mitchell, the captain of USS North Dakota, is shocked to see the Chinese boat torpedo a Vietnamese merchant ship.
> 
> This blatant act of aggression is the opening gambit in a war that has blindsided the U.S. and quickly embroiled all nations in the western Pacific. These nations, bound together in the newly formed Littoral Alliance, have begun a covert submarine campaign aimed at crippling China's economy before China can set in motion its own plot to dominate the region.
> 
> In a desperate attempt to buy the president enough time to resolve the crisis diplomatically, Mitchell's submarine squadron is ordered to interfere with attacks by both sides. China and the Littoral Alliance are both determined to win, no matter the cost, and as each side increases the level of violence, they approach a dangerous tipping point. Larry Bond's Shattered Trident is a race against time, as the submarines of Mitchell's squadron must execute their mission before the world witnesses an economic catastrophe―or worse, a nuclear exchange._
> 
> Larry Bond



fiction ≠ reality


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## Aqsuperman

hoangsa74 said:


> They fired the first shot, killed 18 Chinese n sunk 2 boats. Unlike those shooting targets who stood there at south Johnson reef getting blown away without even having the balls to fire the first shot, second shot, third shot, nth shot.



And the result ? Losing the entire island chains with that "heroic deeds" of your while our under - equipped pioneer troops lose 1 island and keep pretty much everything else intact up to the current day. Who better perform in term of keeping our territory ? Shooting each other off and flee right to 7th fleets, guess what happen ? THEY DONT GIVE A FCK. Perfect example for alliance. We also has a taste of that in 1988 so not going to rely on that 1 more time.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> Being a swinger only earn u enemies, not allies. Nobody trusts a swinger. Your enemy can rape u free of charge because they know u have nobody that come to your rescue.



That's not swinging at all. Just the opposite. You stay in your position until you are forced to choose a side.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Right, so u tell me what kind of military solution for u to be able to keep the Spratly without having the F-35 or the F-15 Silent Eagle? The answer is that u don't have a military solution. You don't have the technology edge or even the quantity to measure up to China.
> 
> You don't want a military alliance so u believe vn alone can beat china in a war over the spratly. I'm interested to hear your super opinion on how vn can defend the spratly from an all out air and naval assault from China. I'm sure all forum members will too.



why you asking this? Vietnam is already in alliance with US since 2005. Even if that was unofficial.

You think Japan send FDI to Vietnam without approval of US. Or Israel sell weapon system to Vietnam without US approval?



Silent Knight said:


> Lulz, a combine allied force could not defeat a single underpowered enemy and the one who lost are proud about it.
> 
> Just put it this way. No Russian or Chinese died on behalf of North Vietnam because we denied their request to join active combat. We single-handedly drived away the US master and the allies, then crushing the "almighty" RVN in just 2 years. Salty, isn't it?
> 
> No wonder why the crying like "Communism will collapse this year" is still being heard all those years.


This is same argument of Taliban that they were and still now proud of that, that drove out not one but two superpowers.

Dont fall in this blackhole, because in self interest only selfishness and cunningness serve interest of a nation, not pride or ego.



hoangsa74 said:


> other than calling for the mods to come in n rescue u, what kind of military solution do you have for keeping the spratly?



I can tell you solutions, first Vietnam need 1500 KM OTHR-Backscatter for early warning including of detection of BM. 

Second, they need to raise 2 regiments ( one regiment include 100 missiles )of BrahMos with 600 KM range. 

Third, they need to upgrade SU to Super Sukhoi, and atleast 10 SU capable to carry BrahMos. 

Fourth, induction of around 2-3 P-8, and induction of HALE UAV like Avenger or Global Hawk. 

Thats all, I can assure you after this no one able to touch Spartly islands.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> This is same argument of Taliban that they were and still now proud of that, that drove out not one but two superpowers.
> 
> Dont fall in this blackhole, because in self interest only selfishness and cunningness serve interest of a nation, not pride or ego.


Meaning we should not be proud about it?

If it was not for the cleverness, determination and bravery of our founding fathers, how could Vietnam drove out not two, but 3 superpowers, one axis country and defeat one genocidal regime with support from some "great countries" in the 20th century? The nation and Armed Forces themselves are based on the pride and history.

And I only brought that out, because some butthurt people still feel salty about their defeat, and the "dedication" of their "allies".

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> fiction ≠ reality


Lol of course it is a fiction, or can anyone imagine submarines of Vietnam, Japan and India will go to war against China in the east and south china sea, as the novel suggests?

@Farhan Bohra 


Vietnam








Japan







India

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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Meaning we should not be proud about it?
> 
> If it was not for the cleverness, determination and bravery of our founding fathers, how could Vietnam drove out not two, but 3 superpowers, one axis country and defeat one genocidal regime with support from some "great countries" in the 20th century? *The nation and Armed Forces themselves are based on the pride and history.*
> 
> And I only brought that out, because some butthurt people still feel salty about their defeat, and the "dedication" of their "allies".


No I am not saying that.
But also one shoudnt bring proud, pride or ego in FP or serving the interest. Nope.

Also Armed Forces never should make political decisions or FP as they only see world from prism of offensive, counter offensive, defensive, retreat etc.



Viet said:


> Lol of course it is a fiction, or can anyone imagine submarines of Vietnam, Japan and India will go to war against China in the east and south china sea, as the novel suggests?
> 
> @Farhan Bohra
> 
> 
> Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Japan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India



Ask the more interesting question,

Why China since 90s pressurized on demand of whole SCS? Only for natural resources? I dont think so.

The problem is much more deep rooted and involve parties like UK, France and US. 

One need to note, from Chinese perspective, in event of war ,SSNs and SSGN from US, UK and France bombard the shit of nuclear bastion stations of China, and that is serious threat to triad and deterrence.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> No I am not saying that.
> But also one shoudnt bring proud, pride or ego in FP or serving the interest. Nope.
> 
> Also Armed Forces never should make political decisions or FP as they only see world from prism of offensive, counter offensive, defensive, retreat etc.


Sure, you have a point there. As I said, I only brought that out as some certain people keep ranting and crying about things that is not relevant to the modern Vietnamese Armed Forces.

I personally prefer to bring you the news and footage of the Armed Forces, not getting into long pointless argument.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Ask the more interesting question,
> 
> Why China since 90s pressurized on demand of whole SCS? Only for natural resources? I dont think so.
> 
> The problem is much more deep rooted and involve parties like UK, France and US.
> 
> One need to note, from Chinese perspective, in event of war ,SSNs and SSGN from US, UK and France bombard the shit of nuclear bastion stations of China, and that is serious threat to triad and deterrence.


Why China lays claim on 90 percent of the sea with 9 dash lines as close as our beach? Imagine, our fishermen can't do anything for their livings. Our navy can't go anywhere. We are imprisoned. 

Because the Chinese want to kill Vietnam. That is not what I am thinking but one of top Vietnam army generals Nguyen chi Vinh says it, if China successfully gains the control. The Chinese also want to strangulate other nations in the region if they don't submit to China demands.

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## gambit

Aqsuperman said:


> Yet no one one dare to give me a concrete answer for "IF VN join such an alliance, will US fully commit itself to us ?"


What you do not understand is that both the US and China have *EQUAL* interest in the SCS. Just in case you further do not understand, equal does not mean the same. China is absolutely certain the SCS belongs to China. The US is equally certain that the SCS remains free.

The odds of the US being committed to the defense of the SCS, with Viet Nam's assistance, from China is 50/50, whereas the odds of lone Viet Nam being defeated by China is 100%.



Aqsuperman said:


> US dont has the gut to punish North Korea militarily when him blow up a South Korean ship, so *WHY *he has to do anything more than some marginally "protests" if China take the entire spratly islands ?


Because a single SKRean ship loss does not threaten the existence of South Korea. Even the South Korean government understood that. But if North Korea want all out fight, China will step in and *PREVENT* that from happening. North Korea would lose and China will face a refugee crisis. In the long run, China will be worse off because either China will have to take over North Korea or have the Korean peninsula under Western influence.


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## BoQ77

gambit said:


> What you do not understand is that both the US and China have *EQUAL* interest in the SCS. Just in case you further do not understand, equal does not mean the same. China is absolutely certain the SCS belongs to China. The US is equally certain that the SCS remains free.
> 
> The odds of the US being committed to the defense of the SCS, with Viet Nam's assistance, from China is 50/50, whereas the odds of lone Viet Nam being defeated by China is 100%.
> 
> 
> Because a single SKRean ship loss does not threaten the existence of South Korea. Even the South Korean government understood that. But if North Korea want all out fight, China will step in and *PREVENT* that from happening. North Korea would lose and China will face a refugee crisis. In the long run, China will be worse off because either China will have to take over North Korea or have the Korean peninsula under Western influence.



I believe that Vietnam and US have been discussing about the level of cooperation since the first day of normalization in secret until now.

The Vietnam Coast Guard is the most clear evidence of above-mentioned cooperation. The support of US to Vietnam Coast Guard started as early as year 2008. They even stated that Vietnam Marine Police would change the name to VCG before any Vietnam media.
We aren't surprised to see CNN correspondent ride a VCG ship to the site of China HYSY 981 oil rig drill. Or the rapid visit of Daniel Russel to Vietnam few days after the revealation of the incident.

The healing isn't fast as over night change.
It takes time to enter the deeper level of cooperation. But we do know that it's there, and ongoing.

It's not a sudden change when President Obama lifted the arm sale embargo entirely in May.
There're streams beneath it. It's just we aren't in position to point out exactly what it is.

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## gambit

BoQ77 said:


> I believe that Vietnam and US have been discussing about the level of cooperation since the first day of normalization in secret until now.
> 
> The Vietnam Coast Guard is the most clear evidence of above-mentioned cooperation. The support of US to Vietnam Coast Guard started as early as year 2008. They even stated that Vietnam Marine Police would change the name to VCG before any Vietnam media.
> We aren't surprise to see CNN correspondent ride a VCG ship to the site of China HYSY 981 oil rig drill.
> 
> The healing isn't fast as over night change.
> It takes time to enter the deeper level of cooperation. But we do know that it's there, and ongoing.
> 
> It's not a sudden change when President Obama lifted the arm sale embargo entirely in May.
> There're streams beneath it. It's just we aren't in position to point out exactly what it is.


The country that will lose the most, if China control the SCS, is Viet Nam.

Viet Nam is land constrained by Laos and Cambodia. Only the seas can give Viet Nam her economic freedom and the SCS is the only access.

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## BoQ77

gambit said:


> The country that will lose the most, if China control the SCS, is Viet Nam.
> 
> Viet Nam is land constrained by Laos and Cambodia. Only the seas can give Viet Nam her economic freedom and the SCS is the only access.



I'm more optimistic.
It's not too hard for Vietnam to keep our EEZ from Da Nang to Mui Ca Mau.
The remain problem is Spratly islands, which is apart from Vietnam EEZ.

PH is the big loser, also the weakest. That's why China pushing them

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## Viet

Unlikely that our extremely friendly northern neighbour resorts to nuclear, chemical and biological attacks. but just in case, the army has NBC unit consisting of BRDM-2 vehicles.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> The country that will lose the most, if China control the SCS, is Viet Nam.
> 
> Viet Nam is land constrained by Laos and Cambodia. Only the seas can give Viet Nam her economic freedom and the SCS is the only access.



Minor correction: Don't forget the gulf of Thailand which access the south of the Mekong Delta.



BoQ77 said:


> I believe that Vietnam and US have been discussing about the level of cooperation since the first day of normalization in secret until now.
> 
> The Vietnam Coast Guard is the most clear evidence of above-mentioned cooperation. The support of US to Vietnam Coast Guard started as early as year 2008. They even stated that Vietnam Marine Police would change the name to VCG before any Vietnam media.
> We aren't surprised to see CNN correspondent ride a VCG ship to the site of China HYSY 981 oil rig drill. Or the rapid visit of Daniel Russel to Vietnam few days after the revealation of the incident.
> 
> The healing isn't fast as over night change.
> It takes time to enter the deeper level of cooperation. But we do know that it's there, and ongoing.
> 
> It's not a sudden change when President Obama lifted the arm sale embargo entirely in May.
> There're streams beneath it. It's just we aren't in position to point out exactly what it is.



That's why I keep saying that there is a de facto alliance, its super light, no commitments or anything serious, but its there.


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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Minor correction: Don't forget the gulf of Thailand which access the south of the Mekong Delta.
> That's why I keep saying that there is a de facto alliance, its super light, no commitments or anything serious, but its there.



If China try to block SCS, the "alliance" immediately established 
@gambit think that Japan, SK would automatically change to Trans Pacific route and abandon the sea lanes via SCS
It's not simple like that.

Japan's effort prove my argument. They increase the budget for that, give more to PH, VN, ID, MY ... against any new movement by China.

Investments of East Asia countries in South East Asia is increasing too. Those would be affected too.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> If China try to block SCS, the "alliance" immediately established
> @gambit think that Japan, SK would automatically change to Trans Pacific route and abandon the sea lanes via SCS
> It's not simple like that.
> 
> Japan's effort prove my argument. They increase the budget for that, give more to PH, VN, ID, MY ... against any new movement by China.
> 
> Investments of East Asia countries in South East Asia is increasing too. Those would be affected too.



I totally agree.


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## Carlosa

*India to help Vietnam build high-speed patrol boats in $100mn contract: ambassador*
TUOI TRE NEWS
UPDATED : 08/31/2016 10:48 GMT + 7






*
A US$100 million contract will be signed between Vietnam and India to provide the former with high-speed patrol boats within the framework of the upcoming official visit to Vietnam of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.*

During an interview with _Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper, Indian Ambassador to Vietnam Parvathaneni Harish has given some insight into the trip of Prime Minister Modi, scheduled for September 2 - 3.

This is the first visit to Vietnam of an Indian head of government in 15 years, Ambassador Harish stated, adding that many significant documents are expected to be signed between the two parties.

*“The Indian leadership has focused on its Act East Policy in which our Strategic Partnership with Vietnam is a major pillar,” he said.*

*Collaboration between India’s M/s Larsen & Toubro Company and Vietnamese Border Guard is highly anticipated for the construction of high-speed patrol boats based on the Line of Credit of US$100 million, according to the diplomat.*

*“We expect conclusion of many agreements and MOUs in important economic, social and strategic sectors including in the fields of science and technology, information technology, defense and security, health, and especially cooperation in traditional medicine systems in our two countries,” he continued.*

Vietnamese public servants and students will also be granted 200 scholarships to support their studies and research in India, Harish added.

Regarding the disputes in the East Vietnam Sea, the ambassador stated that the maritime area played an important apart in India’s global trade.

Mumbai supports the freedom of navigation and overflight, and unimpeded commerce in the seaway in accordance with international law, especially the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), he asserted.

The South Asian country believed that relevant parties should settle their differences using peaceful measures and not to apply force or the threat of violence for the sake of regional peace and stability.

Addressing the prospects of defense and security ties between India and Vietnam, Harish said there had been strong cooperation between the two militaries, primarily navies and coast guard forces.

The diplomat mentioned the successful visit to Vietnam of Indian defense minister Manohar Parrikar in June under the invitation of his Vietnamese counterpart Ngo Xuan Lich.

Vessels from the Indian naval force have also made frequent visits to Vietnam’s seaports, he said, adding that the current naval ties will also be fostered during the Indian Prime Ministers’ visit.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/politics/3678...uild-highspeed-patrol-boats-in-100mn-contract

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/vietnam-...roval-for-brahmos.446458/page-4#ixzz4IuvqyW5X

This article is courtesy from @PARIKRAMA also known as the Hindu Oracle

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## Farhan Bohra

BoQ77 said:


> If China try to block SCS, the "alliance" immediately established
> @gambit think that Japan, SK would automatically change to Trans Pacific route and abandon the sea lanes via SCS
> It's not simple like that.
> 
> Japan's effort prove my argument. They increase the budget for that, give more to PH, VN, ID, MY ... against any new movement by China.
> 
> Investments of East Asia countries in South East Asia is increasing too. Those would be affected too.


Then @gambit still dont understood the real situation.

What about US, UK & France. What about Russia, what about India?

Why any power accept this that when submarine passing through they have to surface, there ships have to turnoff radars while passing through international water? There aircrafts have to turnoff radars and avionics?

No one. And no one going to bow down against this absurdity.

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## Viet

*Old Times*

Emperor Khải Định state visit to France, June 1922.












































Emperor with his sons, Vinh Thuy (C) and Vinh Can (far right),


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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> And the result ? Losing the entire island chains with that "heroic deeds" of your while our under - equipped pioneer troops lose 1 island and keep pretty much everything else intact up to the current day. Who better perform in term of keeping our territory ? Shooting each other off and flee right to 7th fleets, guess what happen ? THEY DONT GIVE *A FCK*. Perfect example for alliance. We also has a taste of that in 1988 so not going to rely on that 1 more time.


Easy there mr. gangster political commissar. Let me educate you a bit. The RVN fired the first shot and killed 18 Chinese n sunk 2 boats. Unlike the like of u cummie who did not have the ball(s) to fire any shot at the enemy. You stood there as target practice for the Chinese to blow u away for good; that's comical to be the least. Let me remind u again that until this day, the viet military is too afraid to fire the first shot and they r not even allowed to do preempt strike. 

Only those uneducated cummie like u would brag about how good u r at keeping your territory. Look at the map, the paracels island chain is much closer to china than the spratly is. By Dec 1972, the u.s was already out of the conflict of Vietnam. Had the RVN retaken the Paracels, they would have opened two fronts on themselves; one war with china and one war with u cummie. Without the economic and military support from the U.S, u r expecting the RVN to fight not one front but two fronts? Had the RVN only had to deal with one front (China), they would have retaken the Paracels. The loss of the paracels is *SOLELY* due to cummie like you.

Now look at the map on where the spratly is. The spratly is much further away from china than it is from Vietnam. By 1988, the Chinese did not have the capability to project their force that far other than ships. By 1988, the cummie already had su-22 fighter bomber; that plane could have blown any Chinese ships to pieces, but u cummie were too afraid of the Chinese to do it. That's the reason why the Chinese did not escalate n captured the rest of the reefs; they knew they were at the disadvantage in term of military and geography/proximity. You have been able to keep the spratly purely based on *LUCK*, because the spratly is much further away from china than the paracels is. Add that to the fact that you don't have to fight two front wars without any economic or military support like the RVN had to face. 

Please give it a rest to the myth/fantasy that u r good at keeping your territory. You signed off half of the ban gioc waterfall, and the nam quan gate to the Chinese n u call that "good" at what? Selling off your territory in exchange for a few renmin bi.


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## Silent Knight

Fired the first shot, killed 18 Chinese sailors and sunk two boats, then the flagship fired a single 127mm round into the smallest ship - the only one that was engaging the Chinese vessels, thus disable its mobility and enabling the Chinese to sink it. Then, two biggest ships ran all the way to Philippines, while the third one limped back to base. Everyone on the two biggest ships received a "bravery" medal. And let's not forget the troops stationed on Paracel who surrendered without firing a shot. Then, 120 F-5s, read: ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY F-5 fighters were gathered in Da Nang to retaliate. But, the US said "no, you stay put", and no aircraft was ever flown to sink the remaining Chinese vessels. Thus, a lap dog was obeying its master word by word.

Meanwhile, the VPN naval engineers, not combat troops, defended themselves with AK and RPG against overwhelming Chinese forces. They were killed, but at least they didn't fire onto each others and brag about it later. Then, one squadron of Su-22M was mobilized to Phan Rang airbase and start patrolling the area, which enabling the VPN engineers to regain control of two nearby reefs. 

5 garrisons on all Spratly Islands, and you boys gave away some to the Philippines and Taiwan. After 1975 till now, that number has raised to 21 islands and reefs, with 33 garrisons or 48 features under VPN control. So yeah, butthurt RVN resident is butthurt, but the truth is that the RVN was useless in keeping the territory on SCS. Maybe you'll do better in invading Cali then?

And to end a long post.

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## hoangsa74

Silent Knight said:


> Then, 120 F-5s, read: ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY F-5 fighters were gathered in Da Nang to retaliate. But, the US said "no, you stay put", and no aircraft was ever flown to sink the remaining Chinese vessels. Thus, a lap dog was obeying its master word by word.


Then by 1975 u had 120 f-5. Why didn't u recapture the paracels? I guess the lab dog did not dare to do anything to its master.


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## Aqsuperman

This guy reason is fcking hillarious lol. 120 F5 is what you have in that moment. What we have in 1975 is way less than that and only a quater can be made operational, dip shit. Aircraft parts dont fall out of the sky, Mr retarded RVN. You lost something then you are responsible to return it. I lend you my car then it got robbed, you have to get me my car back and not question why I wont come and fight the thief to get back MY property. Then made up assumption that i relate to the thief to get rid of any responsibility. Yea, sure. We "relate" to the thief and lost 1 land. Your innocent and brave troops lost the entire island chains then claim what we have is "luck". Thus is just another epic lol from an American - SVN bastard :v SVN fighting a 2 front war ? Pfff you call a battle a "whole new front" ? Then i guess we fight at least 5 front in 1988: China - VN border and sea, Cambodia - VN border and sea, Thailand - Cambodia. 5 fronts dip shit. We dont have gut to use our Su - 22 ? Then what da shiet do you concentrate your F-5 at Da Nang right after the battle for and not use it ? A show of force ? Or Richard Nixin sold your pathetic arse to China in 1972 and you just have to try to push the blame to the "communist" ???

The way you weasel out of a corner question by dodge it with another seem downright pathetic and coward. Typical result of an "alliance" that even the US disgust. How about a bit more bragging about Thailand army for people in here, plz ?


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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> This guy reason is fcking hillarious lol. 120 F5 is what you have in that moment. What we have in 1975 is way less than that and only a quater can be made operational, dip shit. Aircraft parts dont fall out of the sky, Mr retarded RVN. You lost something then you are responsible to return it. I lend you my car then it got robbed, you have to get me my car back and not question why I wont come and fight the thief to get back MY property. Then made up assumption that i relate to the thief to get rid of any responsibility. Yea, sure. We "relate" to the thief and lost 1 land. Your innocent and brave troops lost the entire island chains then claim what we have is "luck". Thus is just another epic lol from an American - SVN bastard :v SVN fighting a 2 front war ? Pfff you call a battle a "whole new front" ? Then i guess we fight at least 5 front in 1988: China - VN border and sea, Cambodia - VN border and sea, Thailand - Cambodia. 5 fronts dip shit. We dont have gut to use our Su - 22 ? Then what da shiet do you concentrate your F-5 at Da Nang right after the battle for and not use it ? A show of force ? Or Richard Nixin sold your pathetic arse to China in 1972 and you just have to try to push the blame to the "communist" ???
> 
> The way you weasel out of a corner question by dodge it with another seem downright pathetic and coward. Typical result of an "alliance" that even the US disgust. How about a bit more bragging about Thailand army for people in here, plz ?


Relax uneducated cumrade. This is an international forum. Not your typical vietnam classroom in which students n teachers exchange profanity at each other. Lol.
The paracels is easy to attack n retake but impossible to keep due to its proximity to china.even right now u can send a few vc special forces fighter to land on triton island n plant your flag on it but u can only stay there for a few hours before the chinese would rape u bdsm style. ohoh the spratly is much easier for the cummie to keep all these years due to its proximty much further away from China. I repeat again. The cummie able to keep the spartly due solely to luck. And yes thailand military can beat your cummie in any given day. Look at your dudes. U guys can't even dress right n stand straight. Those r terrible signs of an ill disciplined military


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## Farhan Bohra

BoQ77 said:


> If China try to block SCS, the "alliance" immediately established
> @gambit think that Japan, SK would automatically change to Trans Pacific route and abandon the sea lanes via SCS
> It's not simple like that.
> 
> Japan's effort prove my argument. They increase the budget for that, give more to PH, VN, ID, MY ... against any new movement by China.
> 
> Investments of East Asia countries in South East Asia is increasing too. Those would be affected too.


I only can say,
If purely based on history.

US is not some holier than thou. US not came to save Vietnam or protecting human rights. They never gave shit about "Nam" or about the people living in Vietnam. @gambit You seriously trying to portray US as some holier than thou. People need to accept US was serving self interest in height of cold war, when almost Berlin was invaded by USSR.

They saw things clearly, they had very few powers in asia allied with US, and most of them tilted toward USSR. Even all the big powers of asia. So they need Vietnam at any cost. Even there motto was clear "Stop Communism".

But I still say those were cold war days, and people now need to let it go.

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## TenLua

hoangsa74 said:


> Relax uneducated cumrade. This is an international forum. Not your typical vietnam classroom in which students n teachers exchange profanity at each other. Lol.
> The paracels is easy to attack n retake but impossible to keep due to its proximity to china.even right now u can send a few vc special forces fighter to land on triton island n plant your flag on it but u can only stay there for a few hours before the chinese would rape u bdsm style. ohoh the spratly is much easier for the cummie to keep all these years due to its proximty much further away from China. I repeat again. The cummie able to keep the spartly due solely to luck. And yes thailand military can beat your cummie in any given day. Look at your dudes. U guys can't even dress right n stand straight. Those r terrible signs of an ill disciplined military



Bro, why are you so angry?


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## BoQ77

I dont care what Vietnam cant do in the past. I care about what Vietnam can and must do now and in the future. 

Hey @hoangsa74 do you join us if the clash broken?

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> *Old Times*
> 
> Emperor Khải Định state visit to France, June 1922.
> 
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> Emperor with his sons, Vinh Thuy (C) and Vinh Can (far right),



He weigh about 100 pound, maybe?


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## Silent Knight

BoQ77 said:


> I dont care what Vietnam cant do in the past. I care about what Vietnam can and must do now and in the future.
> 
> Hey @hoangsa74 do you join us if the clash broken?


I think not. He will bark about it's all "communist's fault" and "won't shed his blood for the communism". 

Salty it is.


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## BoQ77

Silent Knight said:


> I think not. He will bark about it's all "communist's fault" and "won't shed his blood for the communism".
> 
> Salty it is.



I wish he continue his idea of F-35.
But in another thread, I saw him to praise for the loss of Vietnam.
So now I consider him as "Khua"


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## hoangsa74

hoangsa74 said:


> Relax





Farhan Bohra said:


> I can tell you solutions, first Vietnam need 1500 KM OTHR-Backscatter for early warning including of detection of BM.
> 
> Second, they need to raise 2 regiments ( one regiment include 100 missiles )of BrahMos with 600 KM range.
> 
> Third, they need to upgrade SU to Super Sukhoi, and atleast 10 SU capable to carry BrahMos.
> 
> Fourth, induction of around 2-3 P-8, and induction of HALE UAV like Avenger or Global Hawk.
> 
> Thats all, I can assure you after this no one able to touch Spartly islands.


All of the solutions that you mentioned is like an ugly woman who puts on some makeup to make her look less uglier, it does not make her a pretty woman.

You need to understand the viet military doctrine. They are not allowed to shoot back at the Chinese no matter what. The viet already dig their own grave by not having the balls to do preempt strike.

If war breaks out, it is the Chinese who will do preempt strike. 72 Chinese jets and 9 bombers on their artificial islands will bombard the viet garrison to smithereen before the viet can react and launch any counter attack on the artificial islands' runways.

How can Vietnam relieve a Chinese naval blockade in the spratly? Vn has no solution. Vietnam only has 30 something sukhoi planes for anti-shipping mode to attack the Chinese navy. Those 30 something viet planes have no chance against the air defense destroyers, Chinese jets deployed on the spratlys and from the woody islands.

With the viet airforce is done, what is left is the viet navy comprised of missile boats and submarines; those assets are more of a laughing matter than their air force. viet navy's assets are sitting ducks ready to be hunted down by Chinese anti-ship missiles launched from jets and bombers. Their missile boats might as well stay home then go into battle. Same thing with their submarines. Those submarines have no chance against a Chinese armada of subhunters. Submarine warfare is one of the most sophisticated art of warfare and mind you the Chinese have been doing submarine training for years while the viet's experience with submarine have only been in the last few years. Please don't tell me the viet is at least on par with the Chinese in term of submarine warfare.

Meanwhile, the Chinese can bombard the viet garrison on the spratly by launching ballistic missiles and land attack cruise missiles. The spratly's real estate is extremely small; there is no where to hide. the viet garrison on the spratly either all die or surrender; no other option. Simply put, the viet military do not have the quantitative or qualitative edge over the Chinese. Not a single soul (except those die hard ho chi minh youths) believes the viet has a chance against the Chinese in a war over the spratly.


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## BoQ77

hoangsa74 said:


> All of the solutions that you mentioned is like an ugly woman who puts on some makeup to make her look less uglier, it does not make her a pretty woman.
> 
> You need to understand the viet military doctrine. They are not allowed to shoot back at the Chinese no matter what. The viet already dig their own grave by not having the balls to do preempt strike.
> 
> If war breaks out, it is the Chinese who will do preempt strike. 72 Chinese jets and 9 bombers on their artificial islands will bombard the viet garrison to smithereen before the viet can react and launch any counter attack on the artificial islands' runways.
> 
> How can Vietnam relieve a Chinese naval blockade in the spratly? Vn has no solution. Vietnam only has 30 something sukhoi planes for anti-shipping mode to attack the Chinese navy. Those 30 something viet planes have no chance against the air defense destroyers, Chinese jets deployed on the spratlys and from the woody islands.
> 
> With the viet airforce is done, what is left is the viet navy comprised of missile boats and submarines; those assets are more of a laughing matter than their air force. viet navy's assets are sitting ducks ready to be hunted down by Chinese anti-ship missiles launched from jets and bombers. Their missile boats might as well stay home then go into battle. Same thing with their submarines. Those submarines have no chance against a Chinese armada of subhunters. Submarine warfare is one of the most sophisticated art of warfare and mind you the Chinese have been doing submarine training for years while the viet's experience with submarine have only been in the last few years. Please don't tell me the viet is at least on par with the Chinese in term of submarine warfare.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Chinese can bombard the viet garrison on the spratly by launching ballistic missiles and land attack cruise missiles. The spratly's real estate is extremely small; there is no where to hide. the viet garrison on the spratly either all die or surrender; no other option. Simply put, the viet military do not have the quantitative or qualitative edge over the Chinese. Not a single soul (except those die hard ho chi minh youths) believes the viet has a chance against the Chinese in a war over the spratly.



Do you mean artificial islands are one-time-use airports ?
to fuel many aircrafts and ships, China also need to stock much of fuel and ammunitions, bombs there.
That looks great as targets.

Will you anchor 3 of your aircraft carriers 90-100kms away from shoreline of a hostile country when you plan to attack them?


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## cochine



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## Silent Knight

BoQ77 said:


> I wish he continue his idea of F-35.
> But in another thread, I saw him to praise for the loss of Vietnam.
> So now I consider him as "Khua"


Ah nope, just a salty butthurt RVN resident.

These people would rather see Vietnam under Chinese control than actually fighting with the communist government, unlike most of their fellowmen who fought under VPA flag during Sino-Vietnam war and Cambodian war.


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## xiao qi

Silent Knight said:


> Ah nope, just a salty butthurt RVN resident.
> 
> These people would rather see Vietnam under Chinese control than actually fighting with the communist government, unlike most of their fellowmen who fought under VPA flag during Sino-Vietnam war and Cambodian war.


I doubt he isn't a Vietnamese if he is, he bangs his father's foot and his compatriots

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## BoQ77



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## Aqsuperman

Pfff i come back thinking i may see something worthwhile and the weasel just dodge to another subject. First he claim RVN can protect the islands if he has to fight only 1 "front" then jump to the whole new idea that "Hey its too far, its inevitable". And conveniently left open the answer about the F-5 and US involvement in that whole ordeal. And since he like to talk about how awesome the Thailand Armed Forces are let ask him some name and number instead of some cool uniform and parade picture

What is the most numerous tanks in the Thailand army and its conditions 
What is their primary ATGM in service and its variant.
What is the most advanced air defense system Thailand got

I bet he cant even mumble the answers instead of posting wild pictures since he dont know crap about equipment and all he know are crappy PR picture instead of a careful looks. This guy witness one of the most easy to define stab in the back by the US "alliance" and still he believe its will work this time.

And 1 funny thing is that he dare declare this is international forum and not a VN class yet he use political name to call us ? First its VC and now "uneducated cummie" well those must be term you can use around in international forum ? Well next time i will make up a nickname for him as well. Also has "Cum" and "US" in it. Probably "US Cumdump" or "US Shamecum". He will have enough "cum" in his mouth to talk about "cummie" all he want.

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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Pfff i come back thinking i may see something worthwhile and the weasel just dodge to another subject. First he claim RVN can protect the islands if he has to fight only 1 "front" then jump to the whole new idea that "Hey its too far, its inevitable". And conveniently left open the answer about the F-5 and US involvement in that whole ordeal. And since he like to talk about how awesome the Thailand Armed Forces are let ask him some name and number instead of some cool uniform and parade picture
> 
> What is the most numerous tanks in the Thailand army and its conditions
> What is their primary ATGM in service and its variant.
> What is the most advanced air defense system Thailand got
> 
> I bet he cant even mumble the answers instead of posting wild pictures since he dont know crap about equipment and all he know are crappy PR picture instead of a careful looks. This guy witness one of the most easy to define stab in the back by the US "alliance" and still he believe its will work this time.
> 
> And 1 funny thing is that he dare declare this is international forum and not a VN class yet he use political name to call us ? First its VC and now "uneducated cummie" well those must be term you can use around in international forum ? Well next time i will make up a nickname for him as well. Also has "Cum" and "US" in it. Probably "US Cumdump" or "US Shamecum". He will have enough "cum" in his mouth to talk about "cummie" all he want.


all of your mumbo jumbo comments still do not address how Vietnam can win a against china in the spratly?


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Pfff i come back thinking i may see something worthwhile and the weasel just dodge to another subject. First he claim RVN can protect the islands if he has to fight only 1 "front" then jump to the whole new idea that "Hey its too far, its inevitable". And conveniently left open the answer about the F-5 and US involvement in that whole ordeal. And since he like to talk about how awesome the Thailand Armed Forces are let ask him some name and number instead of some cool uniform and parade picture
> 
> What is the most numerous tanks in the Thailand army and its conditions
> What is their primary ATGM in service and its variant.
> What is the most advanced air defense system Thailand got
> 
> I bet he cant even mumble the answers instead of posting wild pictures since he dont know crap about equipment and all he know are crappy PR picture instead of a careful looks. This guy witness one of the most easy to define stab in the back by the US "alliance" and still he believe its will work this time.
> 
> And 1 funny thing is that he dare declare this is international forum and not a VN class yet he use political name to call us ? First its VC and now "uneducated cummie" well those must be term you can use around in international forum ? Well next time i will make up a nickname for him as well. Also has "Cum" and "US" in it. Probably "US Cumdump" or "US Shamecum". He will have enough "cum" in his mouth to talk about "cummie" all he want.



I'd like to hear from him how Thailand can win any day. Laughable, he doesn't have a clue. Its useless to try to talk to him. He left his brains in south Vietnam when he fled.

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## ahojunk

@Carlosa , @hoangsa74 @Aqsuperman , others,

Please ensure your posts are civil, polite and respectful to each other.


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## hoangsa74

ahojunk said:


> @Carlosa , @hoangsa74 @Aqsuperman , others,
> 
> Please ensure your posts are civil, polite and respectful to each other.


Mod, please open this thread for further discussion, thanks.

https://defence.pk/threads/battle-of-the-spratlys-vietnam-vs-china.446856/page-2


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> He weigh about 100 pound, maybe?


maybe. I don´t know. as empereur d´annam, he ruled just a part of Vietnam, the central part of the country with Hue as capital, while the French occupied the north and south imposing colonial rule. I don´t think, he was happy during his reign, witnessing Vietnam suffering under the French. the century of humiliation. he died young, aged 40.

in army clothing as supreme commander of the Armed Forces






in his office


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## Viet

*Khải Định*. his final resting place, a tomb at the outskirt of the imperial city of Hue
not in a good shape. I hope the officials spend more money and resources to renovate the tomb.

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## gambit

Farhan Bohra said:


> I only can say,
> If purely based on history.
> 
> US is not some holier than thou. US not came to save Vietnam or protecting human rights. They never gave shit about "Nam" or about the people living in Vietnam. @gambit You seriously trying to portray US as some holier than thou. People need to accept US was serving self interest in height of cold war, when almost Berlin was invaded by USSR.
> 
> They saw things clearly, they had very few powers in asia allied with US, and most of them tilted toward USSR. Even all the big powers of asia. So they need Vietnam at any cost. Even there motto was clear "Stop Communism".
> 
> But I still say those were cold war days, and people now need to let it go.


Explain to me how does making the US not so 'holier than thou' helps Viet Nam ?

People saw nothing wrong with North Viet Nam got into alliances with communist China and the Soviet Union. But getting involve with the US ? Oh my God...!!! The horrors...!!!


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> maybe. I don´t know. as empereur d´annam, he ruled just a part of Vietnam, the central part of the country with Hue as capital, while the French occupied the north and south imposing colonial rule. I don´t think, he was happy during his reign, witnessing Vietnam suffering under the French. the century of humiliation. he died young, aged 40.
> 
> in army clothing as supreme commander of the Armed Forces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in his office


He was found to become a puppet for France and served all the law France gives, he liked for his seat , Contrast his father or uncle: Thanh Thai, Duy Tan.. Thanh Thai king was intelligent also a patriot, He wants to change our country like Japan did.France realised that, and they thought they can't control him, so they arrested and forced him to leave his country. KhaiDinh's temper is similar with one member on PDF


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## BoQ77

During the trip to US in 2013 
Bac @gambit : can you help to talk about the equipments introduced to Vietnam by US.
Stryker vehicle and C17?

What could Vietnam buy from US?


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## cochine

Vietnam Communists and Vietnam Nationalists, pls take a relax,

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## Farhan Bohra

gambit said:


> Explain to me how does making the US not so 'holier than thou' helps Viet Nam ?
> 
> *People saw nothing wrong with North Viet Nam got into alliances with communist China and the Soviet Union.* But getting involve with the US ? Oh my God...!!! The horrors...!!!



Please tell me what was the "Treaty of Westphalia"? Why US trying to help Vietnam? US was chosen by GOD to help Vietnam. Are you serious?

What interest had US in 1950s in Vietnam. Obviously China had interest as neighbor?
But surely US is holier than thou which was not serving interest in Asia. But protecting Human Rights.

Thats why Nixon totally ignored genocide in Bengal,,, and sent 7th fleet to attack India? Right. US is totally innocent in Asia, I believe you.

Thats why in 80s, US used petro dollar to fund Islamist to protect Human Rights in Afghanistan against evil USSR? Right? Indeed US is chosen by god to protect humanity. 


> Nixon: This is just the point when she [Indira Gandhi] is a bitch.
> 
> Kissinger: Well, the Indians are bastards anyway. They are starting a war there. It’s—to them East Pakistan is no longer the issue. Now, I found it very interesting how she carried on to you yesterday about West Pakistan.


So much innocence of US.

But little advice, never take higher moral ground when debating. It never work . All countries serve its interest and do misdeeds. 

I am not saying US was wrong, but what you saying is totally Bullshit.



hoangsa74 said:


> All of the solutions that you mentioned is like an ugly woman who puts on some makeup to make her look less uglier, it does not make her a pretty woman.


Lol.



> You need to understand the viet military doctrine. They are not allowed to shoot back at the Chinese no matter what. The viet already dig their own grave by not having the balls to do preempt strike.


Have you read Rules of Engagement of Vietnam Army. Or War Directives issued by Vietnam's Ministry of Defence. If you not then you firing shots in air.



> If war breaks out, it is the Chinese who will do preempt strike. 72 Chinese jets and 9 bombers on their artificial islands will bombard the viet garrison to smithereen before the viet can react and launch any counter attack on the artificial islands' runways.


Like they launch a EMP attack? And all missiles, defence systems of Vietnam go haywire?



> How can Vietnam relieve a Chinese naval blockade in the spratly? Vn has no solution. Vietnam only has 30 something sukhoi planes for anti-shipping mode to attack the Chinese navy. Those 30 something viet planes have no chance against the air defense destroyers, Chinese jets deployed on the spratlys and from the woody islands.


How they do so? 

Blockading Spartly while trailed by US, UKs and French SSN and SSGN?


Meanwhile, the Chinese can bombard the viet garrison on the spratly by launching ballistic missiles and land attack cruise missiles. [/QUOTE]

And Vietnam dont retaliate. Never consider Chinese as some 9 feet tall.

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## TenLua

I do not think he had much of a choice. Bow to the French or face invasion. 

In the unlikely chance that Viet Nam become an exceedingly capable nation, should she colonize France as a token of her appreciation?


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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> I do not think he had much of a choice. Bow to the French or face invasion.
> 
> In the unlikely chance that Viet Nam become an exceedingly capable nation, should she colonize France as a token of her appreciation?


He became king when the country was already occupied, Among princes , he was coward and submissive so France chooses him. He didn't dare to oppose France like his uncle and father, their fate made him scare and no gut to face France. He has a lot of choices and chances, but he chooses a worse choice for Vietnam and himself.


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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> Have you read Rules of Engagement of Vietnam Army. Or War Directives issued by Vietnam's Ministry of Defence. If you not then you firing shots in air.


Butthurt RVN residents have been and will always talk like they're deep inside the current Vietnamese government, while blaming everything on the communist.

The ROE is pretty simple. We don't open fire *FIRST*, and the Chinese are applying the same ROE.


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## Viet

revealed to the public few years ago, Vietnam made M18 assault rifle with 5.56 x 45 mm NATO calibre


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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> He became king when the country was already occupied, Among princes , he was coward and submissive so France chooses him. He didn't dare to oppose France like his uncle and father, their fate made him scare and no gut to face France. He has a lot of choices and chances, but he chooses a worse choice for Vietnam and himself.



What were his options? It was clear the French enjoyed superiority on many fronts.


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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> What were his options? It was clear the French enjoyed superiority on many fronts.


Superior? No, I read some documents for this time. I was surprised when i know Vietnamese soldiers wasn't inferior compared to France soldiers for their assets and weapon, also exceed the number of soldiers. We were defeated, there are many factors, but the main reason is Nguyen Tri Phương. Read more: http://lichsuvn.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19762 I can't find some information to prove France's weapon isn't better than our. I saw from two years ago ( before I also think France is stronger too much than our, but not true) We can win and defeat them. You see the " Dark Flag) . They were a small group and weaker than regular Nguyen soldiers. But why did they defeat France in CauGiay? We could, but our king like KhaiDinh couldn't. We had more than 20 million people at that time. Why did we scare to fight with France? They had only 10000. KhaiDinh was a puppet. he could build his secret army to grab for his reign. We had many young patriot men from " Can Vuong rebel". He had enough advantage conditions to fight with France. But he didn't


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> What were his options? It was clear the French enjoyed superiority on many fronts.


The Nguyen dynasty did make the army weaker overtime. Back to the Quang Trung era, Vietnamese troops were well-armed with rifles/muskets and howitzers, well-trained and the navy could be on par with some European countries.

Things went down hill since most of the Nguyen kings were to passive and afraid to fight, while the one that had the will to fight was isolated and deported by the French.


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## xiao qi

Silent Knight said:


> The Nguyen dynasty did make the army weaker overtime. Back to the Quang Trung era, Vietnamese troops were well-armed with rifles/muskets and howitzers, well-trained and the navy could be on par with some European countries.
> 
> Things went down hill since *most of the Nguyen kings were to passive and afraid to figh*t, while the one that had the will to fight was isolated and deported by the French.


it isn't exactly, should remember our king like Minh Mang, Tu Duc or Thieu Tri, especially Minh Mang, Most of them has the strong policy toward our neighbors like Cam and Thailand, We even fought in Cam more than 10 years and encountered many times with Thais, Maybe our weapon and military is weak compared to Quang Trung or Nguyen Anh time, but isn't too bad to fight with France. Nguyen Tri Phương was sent by Tu Duc to fight not to surrender. But he is useless and untalented. I don't understand why could he attack and win Thai in a long time. Thai even is weaker than


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## Silent Knight

xiao qi said:


> it isn't exactly, should remember our king like Minh Mang, Tu Duc or Thieu Tri, especially Minh Mang, Most of them has the strong policy toward our neighbors like Cam and Thailand, We even fought in Cam more than 10 years and encountered many times with Thais, Maybe our weapon and military is weak compared to Quang Trung or Nguyen Anh time, but isn't too bad to fight with France. Nguyen Tri Phương was sent by Tu Duc to fight not to surrender. But he is useless and untalented. I don't understand why could he attack and win Thai in a long time. Thai even is weaker than


Nguyễn Tri Phương and his action during the war was still a matter for debate imo.

But relatively speaking, the Nguyen dynasty pretty much demolished a powerful army and became too weak to resist the French, not to mention the effectiveness of Christian priests and their followers. 

But history was made and nothing could change.


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## Carlosa

*India and Vietnam: Time for Trilaterals With the US and Japan*
*http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/india-and-vietnam-time-for-trilaterals-with-the-us-and-japan/
*
During Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Vietnam, the bilateral relationship between the two countries needs to be elevated to a comprehensive strategic partnership. The evolving security dynamic in the Indo-Pacific region mandates that both countries should collaborate with greater intensity. Furthermore, while substantive attention needs to be focused on bilateral defense and economic cooperation, the need for expanded partnerships or minilaterals should be given serious consideration by India and Vietnam.

Currently, India is involved in trilateral frameworks such as the U.S.-India-Japan Ministerial Trilateral and India-Japan-Australia trilateral at the official level. It should be noted that in the minilateral frameworks involving India, Japan, and the United States, none of the Southeast Asian countries have been represented. Minilateral frameworks involving India and Vietnam look plausible as there are growing convergences in the regional approaches of both the countries.

At the bilateral level, over the decades, India and Vietnam have shared similar views and interests on the global stage. Immediately after independence, both countries worked for decolonization and shared similar conceptions of Asian Solidarity. Today, both countries are interested in a multipolar Asia. This shared interest in multipolarity was reflected in the joint statement issued during the visit Vietnam’s then prime minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, to Delhi in October 2014. The statement referred to “the necessity of maintaining peace in Asia” and called for continued coordination in regional and international fora. Further, Vietnam has consistently supported India’s quest for membership in the United Nations Security Council. There is also a significant commonality in the regional approaches of India and Vietnam specifically with reference to the policies toward the United States and Japan.

India-Japan relations witnessed significant improvements in the recent past. In 2014, Japan promised to invest $35 billion in India over the next five years and in 2015 a Make in India Special Finance Facility with $12 billion was also initiated. Japan is now a regular participant in the Malabar exercises with India and the United States. India is negotiating with Japan to procure US-2 amphibious aircraft from Japan, and reports suggest that this cooperation may take place under the Make in India initiative.

Similarly, Vietnam has been engaging with Japan under the rubric of “multilateralization and diversification” of its foreign relations. Japan is Vietnam’s biggest bilateral donor, a large trading partner, and the third largest foreign investor in Vietnam. In 2014, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Vietnam’s then-President Truong Tan Sang upgraded the bilateral relationship to an “Extensive Strategic Partnership for Peace and Prosperity in Asia.” Japan has provided six vessels to Vietnam to boost maritime security and Japan’s Self Defense Forces recently docked at Vietnam’s Cam Ranh naval base. Japan is planning to increase the number of defense attaches in Vietnam to facilitate greater cooperation in the security realm between the two countries.

*India, Vietnam, and the United States*

Given the prolonged war that ended in 1975, Vietnam’s relations with the United States have witnessed a remarkable turnaround. President Bill Clinton and President George W. Bush each visited Vietnam (in 2000 and 2006, respectively). More recently, in 2016, current President Barack Obama visited Vietnam and completely lifted the arms embargo, enabling Vietnam to purchase military equipment such as drones, radars, and P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft from the United States. While there is growing discussion on whether the United States should be provided access to Cam Ranh naval base, it should be noted that access is different from establishment of a foreign military base, which Vietnam may not entertain. Further, Vietnam has signed up to participate in the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Vietnam’s participation in the TPP is based on the premise that the benefits, especially enhanced access for its textile exports, far outweigh the costs associated with this high-standard regional framework.

Similarly, in the recent past, India-U.S. relations have been on an upswing, and there is growing strategic convergence between the two countries. India-U.S. defense trade, which was near zero in 2005, today stands at approximately $10 billion. The countries recently concluded a modified logistic support agreement and have articulated a joint vision for the Indo-Pacific region. India and the United States consider each other as “closest partners” in the realm of defense cooperation.

These strategic convergences make a strong case for India-Vietnam-Japan and India-Vietnam-U.S. trilaterals. Further, the power dynamic in the Asia-Pacific region should not be merely a consequence of machinations of the big powers. India, Japan, and Vietnam should become active players in shaping the power politics in the region and trilaterals are an important platform to effect such changes.

Like India, Vietnam is uncomfortable with military alliances and allowing foreign military powers to operate bases in its territory. These trilateral partnerships are not alliances, but they constitute frameworks of cooperation for enhancing domestic capacities in the realm of economy and defense preparedness. Therefore, they merit serious consideration.

_Sanjay Pulipaka works as a Senior Consultant at the Indian Council for Research on International Economic Relations (ICRIER), New Delhi. The views expressed here are personal._

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> What were his options? It was clear the French enjoyed superiority on many fronts.


while the western powers as England, Germany and France made great advances in the military after the years of industrial revolution, Vietnam was virtually stuck in the darkness. Backwardness. We had a large number of warships and artillery but our technology, firepower and tactics lagged light years behind the French.


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## Silent Knight

Happy Independence Day

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Your South Vietnamese compatriot is right, today's China can easily blitz Vietnam in an aerial/naval battle.
> 
> So your government is now trying to mend the relationship between the two communist parties, so it is a wise move for Vietnam's national interests. China will keep extending its grip on the SCS to secure its strategic naval assets, while Vietnam keeps the remaining reefs as the status quo.
> 
> Even your government has still to recognize CPC as its big brother. And your government is doing what the best to your country accordingly.
> 
> 
> View attachment 330682


I know it tiger. Our military expert hoangsa must know it. You know it. we lag years behind the army of Thailand and hopeless behind China imperial army. I wonder when we will begin to pay tribute to you

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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> The Nguyen dynasty did make the army weaker overtime. Back to the Quang Trung era, Vietnamese troops were well-armed with rifles/muskets and howitzers, well-trained and the navy could be on par with some European countries.
> 
> Things went down hill since most of the Nguyen kings were to passive and afraid to fight, while the one that had the will to fight was isolated and deported by the French.



So the Nguyen kings ruined it for everyone?



Viet said:


> while the western powers as England, Germany and France made great advances in the military after the years of industrial revolution, Vietnam was virtually stuck in the darkness. Backwardness. We had a large number of warships and artillery but our technology, firepower and tactics lagged light years behind the French.



So the puppet king had no choice but to be a puppet. He knows he can't win a war, and so he submit. sounds logical to me.

Mod edit - removed off-topic material.


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## cochine

...Parade 2/9/2015.

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## TenLua

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> TPP is dead, so you have a find out a solution to sort out your economic woe.
> 
> China is the solution, embrace China you will get the candy.
> 
> What's the plan to buy all those expensive toys from Russia? It won't make any difference against China. So the best solution is to complement China's SCS strategy. You can keep the remaining reefs with some extra gifts from China.



FDI being as high as it is, I doubt you understand economics. Given, some of that is coming from China. 

The Chinese military industrial complex have been receiving a lot of attention in the last decade. The type-055 looks promising, but they're just toys that will change nothing. Why? Because Viet Nam have enough guns and ammo now; define necessity.


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## ChineseTiger1986

TenLua said:


> FDI being as high as it is, I doubt you understand economics. Given, some of that is coming from China.
> 
> The Chinese military industrial complex have been receiving a lot of attention in the last decade. The type-055 looks promising, but they're just toys that will change nothing. Why? Because Viet Nam have enough guns and ammo now; define necessity.



Apple to Orange, the Type 055 and Type 095 are gigantic 12,000+ tonnes leviathans positioned at the top of the food chain in the navy world. While those 2,000 tonnes corvettes and non-AIP diesel subs that you keep buying from Russia are enough to fend off your ASEAN neighbors, but against China is simply another story.


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## BoQ77

And they don't depend on the alliance as the way to reduce their defence budget.



Carlosa said:


> *India and Vietnam: Time for Trilaterals With the US and Japan*
> *http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/india-and-vietnam-time-for-trilaterals-with-the-us-and-japan/
> *
> During Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Vietnam, the bilateral relationship between the two countries needs to be elevated to a comprehensive strategic partnership. The evolving security dynamic in the Indo-Pacific region mandates that both countries should collaborate with greater intensity. Furthermore, while substantive attention needs to be focused on bilateral defense and economic cooperation, the need for expanded partnerships or minilaterals should be given serious consideration by India and Vietnam.
> 
> Currently, India is involved in trilateral frameworks such as the U.S.-India-Japan Ministerial Trilateral and India-Japan-Australia trilateral at the official level. It should be noted that in the minilateral frameworks involving India, Japan, and the United States, none of the Southeast Asian countries have been represented. Minilateral frameworks involving India and Vietnam look plausible as there are growing convergences in the regional approaches of both the countries.
> 
> At the bilateral level, over the decades, India and Vietnam have shared similar views and interests on the global stage. Immediately after independence, both countries worked for decolonization and shared similar conceptions of Asian Solidarity. Today, both countries are interested in a multipolar Asia. This shared interest in multipolarity was reflected in the joint statement issued during the visit Vietnam’s then prime minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, to Delhi in October 2014. The statement referred to “the necessity of maintaining peace in Asia” and called for continued coordination in regional and international fora. Further, Vietnam has consistently supported India’s quest for membership in the United Nations Security Council. There is also a significant commonality in the regional approaches of India and Vietnam specifically with reference to the policies toward the United States and Japan.
> 
> India-Japan relations witnessed significant improvements in the recent past. In 2014, Japan promised to invest $35 billion in India over the next five years and in 2015 a Make in India Special Finance Facility with $12 billion was also initiated. Japan is now a regular participant in the Malabar exercises with India and the United States. India is negotiating with Japan to procure US-2 amphibious aircraft from Japan, and reports suggest that this cooperation may take place under the Make in India initiative.
> 
> Similarly, Vietnam has been engaging with Japan under the rubric of “multilateralization and diversification” of its foreign relations. Japan is Vietnam’s biggest bilateral donor, a large trading partner, and the third largest foreign investor in Vietnam. In 2014, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Vietnam’s then-President Truong Tan Sang upgraded the bilateral relationship to an “Extensive Strategic Partnership for Peace and Prosperity in Asia.” Japan has provided six vessels to Vietnam to boost maritime security and Japan’s Self Defense Forces recently docked at Vietnam’s Cam Ranh naval base. Japan is planning to increase the number of defense attaches in Vietnam to facilitate greater cooperation in the security realm between the two countries.
> 
> *India, Vietnam, and the United States*
> 
> Given the prolonged war that ended in 1975, Vietnam’s relations with the United States have witnessed a remarkable turnaround. President Bill Clinton and President George W. Bush each visited Vietnam (in 2000 and 2006, respectively). More recently, in 2016, current President Barack Obama visited Vietnam and completely lifted the arms embargo, enabling Vietnam to purchase military equipment such as drones, radars, and P-3 Orion surveillance aircraft from the United States. While there is growing discussion on whether the United States should be provided access to Cam Ranh naval base, it should be noted that access is different from establishment of a foreign military base, which Vietnam may not entertain. Further, Vietnam has signed up to participate in the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Vietnam’s participation in the TPP is based on the premise that the benefits, especially enhanced access for its textile exports, far outweigh the costs associated with this high-standard regional framework.
> 
> Similarly, in the recent past, India-U.S. relations have been on an upswing, and there is growing strategic convergence between the two countries. India-U.S. defense trade, which was near zero in 2005, today stands at approximately $10 billion. The countries recently concluded a modified logistic support agreement and have articulated a joint vision for the Indo-Pacific region. India and the United States consider each other as “closest partners” in the realm of defense cooperation.
> 
> These strategic convergences make a strong case for India-Vietnam-Japan and India-Vietnam-U.S. trilaterals. Further, the power dynamic in the Asia-Pacific region should not be merely a consequence of machinations of the big powers. India, Japan, and Vietnam should become active players in shaping the power politics in the region and trilaterals are an important platform to effect such changes.
> 
> Like India, Vietnam is uncomfortable with military alliances and allowing foreign military powers to operate bases in its territory. These trilateral partnerships are not alliances, but they constitute frameworks of cooperation for enhancing domestic capacities in the realm of economy and defense preparedness. Therefore, they merit serious consideration.
> 
> _Sanjay Pulipaka works as a Senior Consultant at the Indian Council for Research on International Economic Relations (ICRIER), New Delhi. The views expressed here are personal._

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## TenLua

BoQ77 said:


> Please stick to the thread



Noted.

Can anyone clarify if it's going to be T-90MS or T-90A?

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## BoQ77

BoQ77 said:


> During the trip to US in 2013
> Bac @gambit : can you help to talk about the equipments introduced to Vietnam by US.
> Stryker vehicle and C17?
> 
> What could Vietnam buy from US?



In 2013 trip to US, Gen. Ty showed that he want cargo plane that could single handle an army company when he was on board a C-17


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## ahojunk

@ChineseTiger1986 , @TenLua , @kecho ,

Reminder that this is a thread on Vietnam military affairs.

Kindly stay away from discussing anything else. 

Going forward, I will delete off topic posts.

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## BoQ77

Wish you a Happy Foundation day.

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## ahojunk

William Hung said:


> So which topic do you consider as “off-topic”? Can you tell us before hand? Because previously many Viet members got warned or banned for “off-topic” posts that we don’t think warranted a ban or warning at all.
> 
> And since it looks like you are quite heavy-handed in modding, can you tell us first what you consider as “off-topic”?


.
For this thread, please stick to "Vietnam Military News & Discussion."

Wishing all Vietnamese members, "Happy National Day."

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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> So the Nguyen kings ruined it for everyone?


Basically so. 

Did you hear the story that they didn't maintain the howitzers properly, instead pouring medicine into the barrel and praying to the "god of guns"?

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Happy Independence Day



Happy Independence Day Vietnam 



ahojunk said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 , @TenLua , @kecho ,
> 
> Reminder that this is a thread on Vietnam military affairs.
> 
> Kindly stay away from discussing anything else.
> 
> Going forward, I will delete off topic posts.



My Goodness !!! What is happening in PDF? Strict supervision from a mod? Wow, this was unheard off here. Our chinese friends are going to feel very depressed. It seems like they will not be able to raid and disrupt the thread anymore.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> So the Nguyen kings ruined it for everyone?
> 
> So the puppet king had no choice but to be a puppet. He knows he can't win a war, and so he submit. sounds logical to me.
> 
> Mod edit - removed off-topic material.


if one recounts the events back in those days, the Nguyen had theoretically a chance to stop the french invasion. for thousands of year in our history, in times of crisis, usually the ruler calls all men to the army, moblizes all country resources. but the Nguyen lost quickly the fighting spirit amid a series of defeats not only because of french far superior armed forces, but witnessing the great advances of the british made in China. if the chinese had no chance, how could Vietnam have a chance against France. back in the days, the french had the most capable land army in the world. the french navy stood just behind the might british navy. the french armies once conquered Europe, advancing as far as Moscow.

we had gunpowder weapons since the Le dynasty in the 14 century, with rifles and artillery. with hundred of warships at sea. but when the french launched invasion, we were backward agra country, while France a industrial giant. Look at the warships what Vietnam had














comparing to the french navy







french warships during the invasion campaign in the south of Vietnam (Saigon)

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> if one recounts the events back in those days, the Nguyen had theoretically a chance to stop the french invasion. for thousands of year in our history, in times of crisis, usually the ruler calls all men to the army, moblizes all country resources. but the Nguyen lost quickly the fighting spirit amid a series of defeats not only because of french far superior armed forces, but witnessing the great advances of the british made in China. if the chinese had no chance, how could Vietnam have a chance against France. back in the days, the french had the most capable land army in the world. the french navy stood just behind the might british navy. the french armies once conquered Europe, advancing as far as Moscow.
> 
> we had gunpowder weapons since the Le dynasty in the 14 century, with rifles and artillery. with hundred of warships at sea. but when the french launched invasion, we were backward agra country, while France a industrial giant. Look at the warships what Vietnam had
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> comparing to the french navy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> french warships during the invasion campaign in the south of Vietnam (Saigon)


In Tay Son era, Quang Trung has strong naval fleet, " Tây Sơn đại hạm " Tay Son big ship with 80 cannons in one ship, 80 years later, Nguyen reign hadn't one capable ship to fight

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## Svantana

Happy independence day Vietnam brothers&sister

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> In Tay Son era, Quang Trung has strong naval fleet, " Tây Sơn đại hạm " Tay Son big ship with 80 cannons in one ship, 80 years later, Nguyen reign hadn't one capable ship to fight


I really don´t understand why the nguyen fked everything up. but it is as it is. and because of the nguyen incapability to defend the country they lost legitimacy, existence right.


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## Viet

news of the day

at the cabinet meeting of August 30, the government approves a $29 billion infrastructure investment plan for the next 5 year period 2016-2020. interesting: $1.2 billion is allocated for R&D military industrial complex. Let see if we will be surprised by new toys


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## Shotgunner51

Svantana said:


> Happy independence day Vietnam brothers&sister




Happy National Day to all forumers from Vietnam!

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> I really don´t understand why the nguyen fked everything up. but it is as it is. and because of the nguyen incapability to defend the country they lost legitimacy, existence right.


I don't know too, maybe it is the ignorant and the exhausted resources and people. We had more than 300 years of the war before the Nguyen reign set up, Trinh Nguyen War ( 1627-1775), Tay Son - Nguyen ( 1775 -1802), Tay Son - Thailand, TaySon - China ( 1789), and conflict the TaySon each other. In the first time of Nguyen era, they were still strong, Until we involved Cambodian- Thailand war and launch a full war aiming Thai and Cam While the country wasn't strong like our first time. France attacked when our military was the weakest in the history of 300 years.Only 10% our soldiers had guns, The number of soldiers knew to use guns properly even smaller than. The tactics of the commander weren't new and didn't improve at that time. Vietnam's fate was loom when Nguyen Hue died



Shotgunner51 said:


> Happy National Day to all forumers from Vietnam!


Thank you

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## Shotgunner51

xiao qi said:


> Thank you




You are most welcome!

Kindly reminder: This thread is about Vietnam military, hence if you or any Viet member find any posts that derail the thread, or inflaming, please feel free to report. Thanks for your attention!

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## xiao qi

Shotgunner51 said:


> You are most welcome!
> 
> Kindly reminder: This thread is about Vietnam military, hence if you or any Viet member find any posts that derail the thread, or inflaming, please feel free to report. Thanks for your attention!


ok, mod

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> I don't know too, maybe it is the ignorant and the exhausted resources and people. We had more than 300 years of the war before the Nguyen reign set up, Trinh Nguyen War ( 1627-1775), Tay Son - Nguyen ( 1775 -1802), Tay Son - Thailand, TaySon - China ( 1789), and conflict the TaySon each other. In the first time of Nguyen era, they were still strong, Until we involved Cambodian- Thailand war and launch a full war aiming Thai and Cam While the country wasn't strong like our first time. France attacked when our military was the weakest in the history of 300 years.Only 10% our soldiers had guns, The number of soldiers knew to use guns properly even smaller than. The tactics of the commander weren't new and didn't improve at that time. Vietnam's fate was loom when Nguyen Hue died


We can't change the history. Tribute to the 1,300 soldiers who died in the battle of Danang of 1858, when a joint France-Spain expedition force assaulted the city.

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## xiao qi

> Trong cuộc xâm lược Nam Kỳ 1861, sau khi công phá Đại đồn Chí Hòa, quân Pháp thu giữ được:
> _"Một trăm năm mươi đại pháo, hai ngàn súng nhỏ Saint-Etienne tình trạng bảo trì hoàn hảo; đầu đạn tròn, đầu đạn súng cối chưa cho thuốc súng, hai ngàn ký thuốc súng; giáo, chỉa, kích cùng một số lớn tiền đồng được tìm thấy trong thành. Súng tay thì bắn bằng đá lửa; đó là súng từ thời đệ nhất đế chế. Các quả đạn thuộc loại láng, bằng gang, đúc cũng khá tròn; thuốc súng cũng mịn, cán khá đều hạt. Trong thành Kì hòa không thấy có súng bắn bằng bùi nhùi lửa, cũng không có cung, không có nỏ. Ta còn tìm thấy một số bản đồ An Nam; các bản đồ khá đúng giúp ta làm bản đồ trinh sát." (Histoire deL’EXPÉDITION DE COCHINCHINE en 1861)_
> 
> Súng điểu thương Model 1777 cũng là trang bị tiêu chuẩn cho quân đội nhà Nguyễn dưới thời Gia Long – Minh Mạng. Đến năm 1826, súng điểu thương Delvigne thay thế vị trí của Model 1777 trong quân đội Pháp nhưng nhìn chung Delvigne chỉ có một số cải tiến ở khâu nạp đạn chứ chưa có gì quá vượt trội. Như vậy vũ khí cá nhân của quân nhà Nguyễn giai đoạn 1800 – 1840 không quá thua kém các nước phương Tây.
> Tiếc rằng từ thời Tự Đức trở đi, quân đội bị bỏ bê, không có thêm trang bị mới đã đành lại còn cắt giảm cả trang bị cũ. Sau năm 1840, dòng điểu thương Model 1777 nhanh chóng lạc hậu nhưng không được thay thế, lại còn bị cắt giảm 75% số lượng. Năm 1848, quân đội Pháp đưa vào biên chế súng điểu thương Minié – loại được sử dụng trong cuộc xâm lược Nam Kỳ 1861. Tuy vẫn giữ cơ chế nạp tiền (muzzle-loading) như Model 1777 của nhà Nguyễn nhưng đã có thêm rãnh xoắn (rifled) và sử dụng hạt nổ (percussion cap).
> 
> Năm 1864, quân Pháp đưa vào trang bị loại điểu thương nạp hậu (Breech-loading) đầu tiên: Tabatière, nhưng nhanh chóng bị thay thế dần bởi súng trường (Bolt action) Chassepot Model 1866, sau đó là Gras mle 1874. Đến đây thì nhà Nguyễn chính thức bị bỏ quá xa.


 Loại súng điểu thương mà nhà Nguyễn sử dụng là Saint-Etienne Model 1777 Flintlock, trang bị tiêu chuẩn của quân đội Pháp trong giai đoạn 1777-1826.


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Basically so.
> 
> Did you hear the story that they didn't maintain the howitzers properly, instead pouring medicine into the barrel and praying to the "god of guns"?



LOL. I had expected more from Dynasties that changed the names of their population. The age of superstition is still upon us apparently.



Viet said:


> if one recounts the events back in those days, the Nguyen had theoretically a chance to stop the french invasion. for thousands of year in our history, in times of crisis, usually the ruler calls all men to the army, moblizes all country resources. but the Nguyen lost quickly the fighting spirit amid a series of defeats not only because of french far superior armed forces, but witnessing the great advances of the british made in China. if the chinese had no chance, how could Vietnam have a chance against France. back in the days, the french had the most capable land army in the world. the french navy stood just behind the might british navy. the french armies once conquered Europe, advancing as far as Moscow.
> 
> we had gunpowder weapons since the Le dynasty in the 14 century, with rifles and artillery. with hundred of warships at sea. but when the french launched invasion, we were backward agra country, while France a industrial giant. Look at the warships what Vietnam had
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> comparing to the french navy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> french warships during the invasion campaign in the south of Vietnam (Saigon)



Definitely outgunned. Still, asymmetric warfare could have worn down the French. No matter, there is still time for a rematch.



Viet said:


> news of the day
> 
> at the cabinet meeting of August 30, the government approves a $29 billion infrastructure investment plan for the next 5 year period 2016-2020. interesting: $1.2 billion is allocated for R&D military industrial complex. Let see if we will be surprised by new toys



Developing a SAM system with a 300 mile range would be awesome. Can be mounted on ships.

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## Viet

*Pluto Plus UAV*

the Navy acquires unmanned underwater robot Pluto Plus built by Italy's Gaymarine Electronics. special purpose: mine hunting. specs: low magnetic and acoustics signature, controlled by a fiber-optic cable or wireless link, batteries providing endurance of max 6 hours, speed max. 6 knots, cameras and three sonars can detect and identify underwater objects up to a depth of 300 meters.










such identical UAV type deployed by Norwegian Navy

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## Carlosa

*All Eyes on China as Indian Premier Modi Heads to Vietnam*
*http://www.voanews.com/a/china-india-narendra-modi-visits-vietnam/3490788.html
*
Hanoi's need for bolstered maritime defenses against an increasingly assertive China in the territorially disputed South China Sea is expected to be high on the agenda when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits Vietnam later this week.

Professor Sukh Doe Muni, fellow at the Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses in New Delhi, says the Indian leader's arrival Friday comes as "the question of South China Sea has come up in a big way."

"Narendra Modi's visit actually is the strong indication of India showing its friendship, camaraderie, solidarity with Vietnam, particularly at the time when Vietnam is facing lots of pressure in the region from China," said the former senior Indian diplomat, who once worked in Southeast Asia.

Modi's Hanoi stopover, which will make him the first Indian prime minister to visit Vietnam in over a decade, comes one day before he'll join the Group of 20 summit in Hangzhou, China.

According to Ngo Xuan Binh, director of the Institute of Indian and Southwest Asian Studies in Hanoi, defense is a key part of "traditional" Hanoi-New Delhi relations, and there are mixed reactions among the Vietnamese public.

"Some say Modi's visit to Vietnam before participating in the G20 summit shows how important Hanoi is to New Delhi, and it's also a signal to China," he said. "However, others say the visit has little impact on China, as it is a big partner of Beijing in many aspects."





FILE - India's Brahmos supersonic cruise missiles, mounted on a truck, pass by during a full dress rehearsal for the Republic Day parade in New Delhi, January 23, 2006.

But Binh also says the recent tribunal ruling in The Hague, which dealt a legal blow to China's maritime claims, may bring India and Vietnam into closer diplomatic orbit. Vietnamese experts on Indian affairs, for example, have cited sources claiming that Hanoi entered high-level negotiations in June with New Delhi to buy BrahMos cruise missiles — the world's highest-velocity anti-ship cruise missile currently in operation — which has prompted concerns from Beijing.

According to IHS Janes, "talks in Hanoi included the option of stationing a team of Indian technicians in the Southeast Asian country to offer the Vietnamese assistance in using the [BrahMos] system," and that New Delhi officials suggest the weapons transfer might be imminent.

Vietnamese media quoted Indian Ambassador to Hanoi P. Harish as saying this week that New Delhi also hopes to reach agreements with Hanoi in areas of cooperation such as science, technology, defense and security. But it is unclear whether the two sides will sign any deal on BrahMos.

The Stockholm-based International Peace Research Institute recently reported that Vietnam was the eighth-largest arms importer in the world from 2011 to 2015, up from 43rd in the previous five-year period, and that India is one of the largest weapons exporters to Vietnam.

Rising tensions over the South China Sea maritime region in recent years have driven Vietnam to buy arms to defend itself.

This report was produced in collaboration with VOA's Vietnamese service.


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## Silent Knight

xiao qi said:


> In Tay Son era, Quang Trung has strong naval fleet, " Tây Sơn đại hạm " Tay Son big ship with 80 cannons in one ship, 80 years later, Nguyen reign hadn't one capable ship to fight


Yep. The army under Nguyễn Ánh rule was still a serious force in South East Asia, even comparable to Western countries. Things went downhill after that though.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Developing a SAM system with a 300 mile range would be awesome. Can be mounted on ships.


I hope the people in the army follow this thread, reading my posts here 
yes, that is what I repeately say since I joined this forum: we need air defence destroyers as the shield of the fleet.

the next war will occur at high sea.

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## Farhan Bohra

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/771723716933906432

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/771723716933906432



Welcome to Vietnam Modi ji.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> I hope the people in the army follow this thread, reading my posts here
> yes, that is what I repeately say since I joined this forum: we need air defence destroyers as the shield of the fleet.
> 
> the next war will occur at high sea.



I'm sure they know this, but lack the technology. 

Air power have proven to be too effective to ignore.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I hope the people in the army follow this thread, reading my posts here
> yes, that is what I repeately say since I joined this forum: we need air defence destroyers as the shield of the fleet.
> 
> the next war will occur at high sea.



Each Aegis destroyer costs about 2 billion dollars, same for the SSN.

A single ship is about your annual military expenditure, how you could possibly afford those toys?

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## hoangsa74

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Each Aegis destroyer costs about 2 billion dollars, same for the SSN.
> 
> A single ship is about your annual military expenditure, how you could possibly afford those toys?


2 bil is domestic price only. Export price has to be at least 3 bil. Plus the u.s won't give away aegis tech to a commie country.

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## ChineseTiger1986

hoangsa74 said:


> 2 bil is domestic price only. Export price has to be at least 3 bil. Plus the u.s won't give away aegis tech to a commie country.



More realistically, Vietnam should stick with those Russian corvettes.

The high tech warship like Aegis is simply too much for Vietnam to handle it.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> I hope the people in the army follow this thread, reading my posts here
> yes, that is what I repeately say since I joined this forum: we need air defence destroyers as the shield of* the fleet*.



What fleet?

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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Each Aegis destroyer costs about 2 billion dollars, same for the SSN.
> 
> A single ship is about your annual military expenditure, how you could possibly afford those toys?


Tiger, not buying, the keyword is "developing". Producing components at home as much as possible will bring down the cost. What we need is putting pieces of a puzzle into a picture. I don't feel ashamed if we copy China way of doing business.

The 5,000 ton hull can be assembled by the new Ba Son shipyard. Since a decade we make both active and passive radars. So we don't start from zero. What's missing is ESA. A part of the $1.2 b funds should be allocated to develop such radar later be able to operate on ships. Viettel and other domestic companies make a whole range of software, including for air defense, friend-foe identification. We produce Kh-35 antiship missile. The range is said to be extended to 300 km. We make ship artillery, including Gatling barrel gun.

there are lots of other things we need to import, from diesel engines to missiles. We can buy components we need from Russia, India and other friendly countries or is it a problem? I am willing to bet, a Vietnam made air defense destroyer would cost less than the sum you mentioned.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Tiger, not buying, the keyword is "developing". Producing components at home as much as possible will bring down the cost. What we need is putting pieces of a puzzle into a picture. I don't feel ashamed if we copy China way of doing business.
> 
> The 5,000 ton hull can be assembled by the new Ba Son shipyard. Since a decade we make both active and passive radars. So we don't start from zero. What's missing is ESA. A part of the $1.2 b funds should be allocated to develop such radar later be able to operate on ships. Viettel and other domestic companies make a whole range of software, including for air defense, friend-foe identification. We produce Kh-35 antiship missile. The range is said to be extended to 300 km. We make ship artillery, including Gatling barrel gun.
> 
> there are lots of other things we need to import, from diesel engines to missiles. We can buy components we need from Russia, India and other friendly countries or is it a problem? I am willing to bet, a Vietnam made air defense destroyer would cost less than the sum you mentioned.



Producing the Aegis alone is an extremely difficult task. Only two countries on the Earth have indigenously producing the Aegis: USA and China.

Japan and South Korea didn't produce their indigenous Aegis, they bought all the critical components including the radars, weapon systems, gas turbines from the US. And the only indigenous component of their Aegis is the hull.

Without a massive complete military industrial complex, it is impossible to produce it on your own.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Producing the Aegis alone is an extremely difficult task. Only two countries on the Earth have indigenously producing the Aegis: USA and China.
> 
> Japan and South Korea didn't produce their indigenous Aegis, they bought all the critical components including the radars, weapon systems, gas turbines from the US. And the only indigenous component of their Aegis is the hull.
> 
> Without a massive complete military industrial complex, it is impossible to produce it on your own.


Lol you love to belittle Japan. Is it only the hull the Japanese are capable to produce? Come on, Japan operates carrier battle groups since decades while you have to start yet. Everything is difficult. Uncle Sam may have interest of selling this and that to Vietnam, who knows, maybe not the most sophisticated toy, but some basic technology is ok too.

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## xiao qi

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Producing the Aegis alone is an extremely difficult task. Only two countries on the Earth have indigenously producing the Aegis: USA and China.
> 
> Japan and South Korea didn't produce their indigenous Aegis, they bought all the critical components including the radars, weapon systems, gas turbines from the US. And the only indigenous component of their Aegis is the hull.
> 
> Without a massive complete military industrial complex, it is impossible to produce it on your own.


How about Russia?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Lol you love to belittle Japan. Is it only the hull the Japanese are capable to produce? Come on, Japan operates carrier battle groups since decades while you have to start yet. Everything is difficult. Uncle Sam may have interest of selling this and that to Vietnam, who knows, maybe not the most sophisticated toy, but some basic technology is ok too.



I didn't belittle Japan, this is their current capability.

Sure, Japan was once a naval powerhouse back in the WWII, but this is the past, and they have been left behind for more than 70 years.

PS, the WWII carrier and the modern carrier are totally different matter. The modern carrier is by far more complicated to build than the primitive WWII carrier. And Japan didn't have any experience with the modern carrier.

If Japan can build their own Aegis, then they wouldn't need to buy the watered-down version from the US.



xiao qi said:


> How about Russia?



Russia still got the submarine legacy from the USSR. However, their surface fleet has also been left behind.

Some Russian friends might not feel pleasant to hear this fact, but this is the reality for Russia.

With the limited budget, Russia has to secure the nuclear stockpile and nuclear submarine first, and everything else has to be put aside.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> How about Russia?



USA and China are the only 2 countries that produced a domestically designed AEGIS type air defense destroyer. Russia has the naval version of the S-300 and they are deploying the naval version of the S-400 in the upgraded Kirov class cruisers and later the naval version of S-500 in the upcoming LEADER destroyers.

China produces a copycat system based on the Russian naval S-300 from the cruisers that bought from Russia and is not clear how good is it. Talk is cheap, only results count and so far China is all talk and more talk.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Lol you love to belittle Japan. Is it only the hull the Japanese are capable to produce? Come on, Japan operates carrier battle groups since decades while you have to start yet. Everything is difficult. Uncle Sam may have interest of selling this and that to Vietnam, who knows, maybe not the most sophisticated toy, but some basic technology is ok too.


Its best to not not reply such supidity.

By him indeed Type 45 is a battleship, Vizag & Kolkata class is Galleon, and Japan even dont exist on earth.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> USA and China are the only 2 countries that produced a domestically designed AEGIS type air defense destroyer. Russia has the naval version of the S-300 and they are deploying the naval version of the S-400 in the upgraded Kirpv class cruisers and later the naval version of S-500 in the upcoming LEADER destroyers.
> 
> China produces a copycat system based on the Russian naval S-300 from the cruisers that bought from Russia and is not clear how good is it. Talk is cheap, only results count and so far China is all talk and more talk.



Nope, the Chinese copycat of the S-300 is the HQ-15, not the HQ-9.

https://defence.pk/threads/hq-15-the-chinese-version-of-s-300.149043/

Aegis is an entire defence system, not just the SAM. The Kirov class has the air defence system. However, it is no Aegis, so it cannot simultaneously deal with multiple targets.


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## BoQ77

@ahojunk : Aegis isn't what much related to Vietnam
-------------------------------------
Vietnam could utilize some dozens of Spratly islands and reefs and shoals they occupied, by make a little of land reclamation on them.

Put a early warning radar and some weather-sealed batteries of precise artillery like EXTRA to them.

It's cheap and cost very little of maintenance

Thales Coast Watchers 100

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## ahojunk

@BoQ77 , I read through previous posts, and I think Aegis has some relevance in the discussions.

I think the discussions were quite civil. Good job.

However, let's get back to discussing "Vietnam military news".

If the mods are too strict, you will complain that there is no freedom of speech.

This thread will be boring.

Tip: If someone tries to derail this thread, just ignore his post and he will go away.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> What fleet?


Haven't you heard of Vietnam' s FUTURE three naval fleets?

- north fleet
- central fleet
- south fleet

North and central fleets guard the South China Sea and western Pacific. South fleet guards the Gulf of Thailand and the Straits of malacca.


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## Viet

ahojunk said:


> @BoQ77 , I read through previous posts, and I think Aegis has some relevance in the discussions.
> 
> I think the discussions were quite civil. Good job.
> 
> However, let's get back to discussing "Vietnam military news".
> 
> If the mods are too strict, you will complain that there is no freedom of speech.
> 
> This thread will be boring.
> 
> Tip: If someone tries to derail this thread, just ignore his post and he will go away.


I fully support your opinion. Why restrict discussion by reasons nobody understands?

If I recall, BoQ asked some few posts ago, what US weapons Vietnam can buy, but now he wants other not to talk on Aegis because it is not relevant. He may mean Vietnam can buy everything from America, including nuclear powered submarines, but no way Aegis. Very funny. Besides, Aegis stands for US developed computer aided naval combat system. A Vietnam made version would have a different name.

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## Silent Knight

Aegis is not just a ship-based air defense system. It's a complex network of multiple ship-based ADS connected by an unified datalink, allowing them to distribute target acquisition/engagement.

Tiger was right, only the US (has been) and China (developing) a complete Aegis or Aegis-like system. Russia has strong naval ADS, but they lack the unified coordination and combat management system. It's more like several individual ADS.

Vietnam is way too far from getting hands on Aegis technology. I think we should focus primarily on medium and long range air defense system for surface ships first. Currently Vietnamese warships only have short range ADS and CIWS, we simply have no fleet air defense at all.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In another news:

India officially offers 500 million USD defense credit for Vietnam

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> I fully support your opinion. Why restrict discussion by reasons nobody understands?
> 
> If I recall, BoQ asked some few posts ago, what US weapons Vietnam can buy, but now he wants other not to talk on Aegis because it is not relevant. He may mean Vietnam can buy everything from America, including nuclear powered submarines, but no way Aegis. Very funny. Besides, Aegis stands for US developed computer aided naval combat system. A Vietnam made version would have a different name.



nuclear powered submarines are more meaningful to Vietnam than Aegis combat system ships.
Why? because those are suitable to strategy of Vietnam.
If those nuclear powered subs are available to Vietnam in 2009, I think maybe Vietnam already get 3 of them. Heavier weapon loaded, longer time under water. 3 of them value more than 12 of Kilo- subs

It was unpredictable thing for China to hear that Vietnam signed for 6 of Kilo-class subs back to 2009 When Vietnam has not any frigate.
The value of contract is huge to Vietnam annual budget, especially in 2009 but that's the decisive and wise move.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> nuclear powered submarines are more meaningful to Vietnam than Aegis combat system ships


what a surprise! thank you for the information.

ok why not talk on how the Navy can acquire a squadron nuclear submarines armed with SLBM? any idea?


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## BoQ77

> “Vấn đề mua vũ khí của Mỹ, trước hết Việt Nam cần tính xem nhu cầu ra sao, phía Mỹ có khả năng cung cấp đến đâu v*à nó có phù hợp với chiến lược quốc phòng của chúng ta hay không*?”, Đại sứ Việt Nam tại Mỹ Phạm Quang Vinh nói.



Vietnam Ambassador in US Pham Quang Vinh said " have to study.... which US weapons fit to Vietnam defense strategy"

To me, F-35 fit well to Vietnam strategy, much more than Aegis ... thing


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Vietnam Ambassador in US Pham Quang Vinh said " have to study.... which US weapons fit to Vietnam defense strategy"
> 
> To me, F-35 fit well to Vietnam strategy, much more than Aegis ... thing


what about B2 strategic bomber?


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> nuclear powered submarines are more meaningful to Vietnam than Aegis combat system ships.
> Why? because those are suitable to strategy of Vietnam.
> If those nuclear powered subs are available to Vietnam in 2009, I think maybe Vietnam already get 3 of them. Heavier weapon loaded, longer time under water. 3 of them value more than 12 of Kilo- subs
> 
> It was unpredictable thing for China to hear that Vietnam signed for 6 of Kilo-class subs back to 2009 When Vietnam has not any frigate.
> The value of contract is huge to Vietnam annual budget, especially in 2009 but that's the decisive and wise move.



I believe neither one would be realistic for Vietnam; cost is already a big reason, but VN does not have the capability to deal with nuclear reactors. SSK subs like the Kilos are the way to go and they are more silent than nuclear subs. What Vietnam needs is AIP subs.

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> I believe neither one would be realistic for Vietnam; cost is already a big reason, but VN does not have the capability to deal with nuclear reactors. SSK subs like the Kilos are the way to go and they are more silent than nuclear subs. What Vietnam needs is AIP subs.



Appreciate your comment. If Vietnam decided they need subs, any subs with longer submersible time is better. Nuclear subs may need more training but easier to deploy at will and last longer.

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## Viet

the news is already posted. I added here more pictures and comments. Field testing of Vietnam made 5.56 x 45mm and 7,62 x 51mm standard NATO calibre ammunition. So should the NATO ever face shortage, the alliance can place orders at Vietnam ammunition factories.


test firing with 5.56 x 45 mm NATO calibre








*














*



test firing with 7.62 x 51 mm NATO calibre
*









*


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## Viet

welcome Narendra Modi to Vietnam!

@Nilgiri 
@Farhan Bohra

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## Farhan Bohra

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/771930180923297792

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/771930811260076032

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## Echo_419

Viet said:


> welcome Narendra Modi to Vietnam!
> 
> @Nilgiri
> @Farhan Bohra



Congrats Space & IT is our strong suite

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> Appreciate your comment. If Vietnam decided they need subs, any subs with longer submersible time is better. Nuclear subs may need more training but easier to deploy at will and last longer.



Yes, but don't forget that a nuclear sub is 2 billion usd. Vietnam paid 1.8 billion for 6 Kilos.


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## Silent Knight

Say no to anything with nuclear, except the nuclear power plant

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## Carlosa

*India gives Vietnam $500 mn for defence spending*
https://www.yahoo.com/news/india-gives-vietnam-500-mn-defence-spending-072656196.html

India said on Saturday it is giving Vietnam half a billion dollars in credit to boost defence ties, the latest security deal between the two nations seeking to counter Beijing's muscle-flexing in the South China Sea.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi made the announcement during a visit to Hanoi, which has gone on a spending spree in recent years to expand and modernise its military arsenal amid territorial disputes with Beijing in the strategically vital waterway.

"I am also happy to announce a new defence credit for Vietnam of $500 million for facilitating deeper defence cooperation," Modi told reporters after signing the deal.

He did not specify details of the arrangement, but traditionally such lines of credit would oblige Vietnam to sign contracts with Indian companies.

About 50 percent of India's trade passes through the South China Sea, where Beijing has built up islands and outcrops capable of supporting military activities to the chagrin of Vietnam and other claimants.

Vietnam's Prime Minister praised its close friendship with India Saturday during the visit -- the first by an Indian premier in 15 years and part of New Delhi's "Act East Policy" to strengthen economic and security ties with east Asian neighbours.

"(We) discussed matters concerning the East Sea," Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc told reporters.

"All sides must peacefully solve East Sea disputes based on international laws," he added of the contested waterway, where the Philippines, Brunei, Taiwan and Malaysia also have claims.

The latest defence deal follows a similar announcement in 2014 when India agreed to give Vietnam a $100 million line of credit to buy naval patrol boats, a move that likely rankled China.

Beijing has previously criticised India's cooperation with Vietnam in the defence sector, and India has its own frosty history with China following a brief but bloody border war in 1962.

Vietnam was the eighth largest importer of arms between 2011 and 2015, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, up from a rank of 43 in the previous five-year period.

The communist country is increasingly looking to new partners to replace or update Soviet-era military equipment, including the United States which lifted a Cold War-era arms embargo in May.

Vietnam expert Carl Thayer said Modi's trip was Vietnam's way of showing it has other friends in the region.

"Vietnam is playing that game: 'Come on, China, get close to us, cooperate, but if you don't we can move to India or we'll go talk to you after the Prime Minister of India has just been through,'" he said.

India and Vietnam signed a dozen agreements in all, including a $5 million deal to build a technology park in the coastal resort city of Nha Trang.

Vietnam is pushing to become a key player in Southeast Asia's tech scene as it looks to diversify exports beyond manufacturing and agriculture.

Modi also visited the tomb of Vietnam's independence leader and communist crusader Ho Chi Minh, posting a photo on Twitter of the monument where the embalmed national hero is on display, saying: "Paid tributes to one of Asia's tallest leaders, the great Ho Chi Minh."

Modi is scheduled to fly out later Saturday to attend the G20 summit in Hangzhou China along with other world leaders. He will then head to Laos for a summit of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), and will attend an ASEAN-India Summit on September 8.

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> the news is already posted. I added here more pictures and comments. Field testing of Vietnam made 5.56 x 45mm and 7,62 x 51mm standard NATO calibre ammunition. So should the NATO ever face shortage, the alliance can place orders at Vietnam ammunition factories.
> 
> 
> test firing with 5.56 x 45 mm NATO calibre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> test firing with 7.62 x 51 mm NATO calibre
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I ask you a question, what type of ammunition for Vietnam CAR-15 or M16?


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> I ask you a question, what type of ammunition for Vietnam CAR-15 or M16?


What is your Intention of asking me such question? I have neither rifles at home if it is what you want to know.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> what a surprise! thank you for the information.
> 
> ok why not talk on how the Navy can acquire a squadron nuclear submarines armed with SLBM? any idea?



No one will sell you that.

The US only sells the SLBM to the UK because they have the blood connection. Still, the technology remains confidential, and the US won't allow any UK expert to inspect the Trident missiles.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> What is your Intention of asking me such question? I have neither rifles at home if it is what you want to know.



I means Vietnam used a lot of them and make ammunition for them decades ago.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, but don't forget that a nuclear sub is 2 billion usd. Vietnam paid 1.8 billion for 6 Kilos.



nearly 3 billion


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## ChineseTiger1986

Silent Knight said:


> Aegis is not just a ship-based air defense system. It's a complex network of multiple ship-based ADS connected by an unified datalink, allowing them to distribute target acquisition/engagement.
> 
> Tiger was right, only the US (has been) and China (developing) a complete Aegis or Aegis-like system. Russia has strong naval ADS, but they lack the unified coordination and combat management system. It's more like several individual ADS.
> 
> Vietnam is way too far from getting hands on Aegis technology. I think we should focus primarily on medium and long range air defense system for surface ships first. Currently Vietnamese warships only have short range ADS and CIWS, we simply have no fleet air defense at all.



The real name for China's Aegis is Star Ocean, it coincidentally shares a same name with a JRPG game.

Yep, only the US Aegis and China's Star Ocean are the two only Aegis systems in the world. And China is adding more capabilities like the missile defense system and land attack capability in its Star Ocean like the US Aegis.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I means Vietnam used a lot of them and make ammunition for them decades ago.
> 
> nearly 3 billion



The 3 billion includes other things such us building a sub base, a sub training center, etc, etc.
The subs themselves were 1.8 billion, 300 million per sub. No matter what sub you choose, you have to spend that additional money for those other things. Also, dealing with a nuclear reactor is expensive in many ways and once the sub is decommissioned, have to spend a small fortune to dispose of the nuclear reactor, fuel rods, etc. Its a big issue. Only big powers with deep pockets can afford nuclear subs.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The real name for China's Aegis is Star Ocean, it coincidentally shares a same name with a JRPG game.
> 
> Yep, only the US Aegis and China's Star Ocean are the two only Aegis systems in the world. And China is adding more capabilities like the missile defense system and land attack capability in its Star Ocean like the US Aegis.



Star Ocean is in development. What type 52D destroyers have is far from being an AEGIS system. HQ-9 is not an AEGIS system. Development and deployed are 2 different things. Maybe type 55 cruiser will have it, but remains to be seen.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Farhan Bohra said:


> Then you living in world of la la land and dont know a shit about Project Sangrika.
> 
> Also about current DPRK's SLBM.
> 
> My suggestion, leave your cookoo land.



DPRK has the short ranged liquid fuel SLBM.

However, DPRK always got better heavy industry than Vietnam, but Vietnam is only better at the light industry.



Carlosa said:


> Star Ocean is in development. What type 52D destroyers have is far from being an AEGIS system. HQ-9 is not an AEGIS system. Development and deployed are 2 different things. Maybe type 55 cruiser will have it, but remains to be seen.



Type 052C = Star Ocean 1.0
Type 052D = Star Ocean 2.0
Type 055 = Star Ocean 3.0

You information regards China is always outdated Mr. Spaniard.


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## BoQ77

save us some pages for not bring China whatever Aegis thing over here.

Heavy frigates or light destroyers as you may call are more realistic to Vietnam Navy

That 's why I said Aegis thing isnt much relevant.


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## ChineseTiger1986

BoQ77 said:


> save us some pages for not bring China whatever Aegis thing over here.



Don't you always consider China as your biggest enemy? So it is good to know more about your enemy.


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## BoQ77

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Don't you always consider China as your biggest enemy? So it is good to know more about your enemy.



even that , further discussions should be in separated thread


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> DPRK has the short ranged liquid fuel SLBM.
> 
> However, DPRK always got better heavy industry than Vietnam, but Vietnam is only better at the light industry.
> 
> 
> 
> Type 052C = Star Ocean 1.0
> Type 052D = Star Ocean 2.0
> Type 055 = Star Ocean 3.0
> 
> You information regards China is always outdated Mr. Spaniard.



What I'm trying to say is that its a work in progress that is definitely not at the level of AEGIS, maybe it will be in the future, but not right now. It requires more development to be at the level of AEGIS. Maybe type 55, but remains to be seen.

You always take credit for more capability than what is currently fielded Mr. Han man. You recently said that China has a global strike system, but it does not, its in development. That's my point.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> I means Vietnam used a lot of them and make ammunition for them decades ago.


You mean we can make NATO ammo since 10 years? Can you provide source?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> No one will sell you that.
> 
> The US only sells the SLBM to the UK because they have the blood connection. Still, the technology remains confidential, and the US won't allow any UK expert to inspect the Trident missiles.


Not mine. I know we can't. But if you want you can ask BoQ how we can buy US nuclear submarine and F-35 because he means we can. I have no clue. My comment was purely ironical.



BoQ77 said:


> save us some pages for not bring China whatever Aegis thing over here.
> 
> Heavy frigates or light destroyers as you may call are more realistic to Vietnam Navy
> 
> That 's why I said Aegis thing isnt much relevant.


It is not you to decide what relevant or not. When will you learn it?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> What I'm trying to say is that its a work in progress that is definitely not at the level of AEGIS, maybe it will be in the future, but not right now. It requires more development to be at the level of AEGIS. Maybe type 55, but remains to be seen.
> 
> You always take credit for more capability than what is currently fielded Mr. Han man. You recently said that China has a global strike system, but it does not, its in development. That's my point.



As I mentioned before, our Star Ocean only needs to add the capabilities such as the land attack and missile defense in order to fully match the US Aegis.

Also, regardless about China global strike system is ready or not, it is still by far more advanced than anyone else on this planet. Do you have any objection with that?



Viet said:


> Not mine. I know we can't. But if you want you can ask BoQ how we can buy US nuclear submarine and F-35 because he means we can. I have no clue. My comment was purely ironical.



Self-made the SLBM is extremely hard. Otherwise, UK wouldn't give it up.

India and NK are only at the elementary level of this.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> You mean we can make NATO ammo since 10 years? Can you provide source?
> 
> 
> Not mine. I know we can't. But if you want you can ask BoQ how we can buy US nuclear submarine and F-35 because he means we can. I have no clue. My comment was purely ironical.
> 
> 
> It is not you to decide what relevant or not. When will you learn it?



more than 10 year. yes. not can or cant but why.
You could start to explain why Vietnam need to make 5.56.


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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> more than 10 year. yes. not can or cant but why.
> You could start to explain why Vietnam need to make 5.56.


Viet media reported we can produce NATO ammo recently. I asked you for source, and the only thing you provided is "yes"?

Why should I explain the army needs this and that ammo? I don't get it. You should ask the ministry of defence.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> Viet media reported we can produce NATO ammo recently. I asked you for source, and the only thing you provided is "yes"?
> 
> Why should I explain the army needs this and that ammo? I don't get it. You should ask the ministry of defence.



Answer in my question to you in previous posts.
or you say suddenly Vietnam produce 5.56 for nothing?
ok I get that you could only read the media and paste the link.
I think about it in my turn.

You asked two questions, my Yes is for the first. FYI, I access by myself to factories who made ammunition, rifles, not hear rumor


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As I mentioned before, our Star Ocean only needs to add the capabilities such as the land attack and missile defense in order to fully match the US Aegis.
> 
> Also, regardless about China global strike system is ready or not, it is still by far more advanced than anyone else on this planet. Do you have any objection with that?.



You are illustrating my point. Can't say that you have an AEGIS like system if you still have to develop the missile defense capability, which is a very important element of the system, that's why I say that is a work in progress.

You can't say that China's global strike system is more advance than USAs, most of their development is classified and you don't have access to it and anyway, my point is that you claim a capability that you still don't have, that's my problem. You can't say you have something while it is in development. Deployed and in development are 2 different things. Chaim it when you deploy it.

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Answer in my question to you in previous posts.
> or you say suddenly Vietnam produce 5.56 for nothing?
> ok I get that you could only read the media and paste the link.
> I think about it in my turn.
> 
> You asked two questions, my Yes is for the first. FYI, I access by myself to factories who made ammunition, not hear rumor


If you hear or know something, feel free and post here. Don't ask nor scold me when I post and translate from viet media. sometimes I am just the messenger. I won't complain if you do the same. If you visit ammo factory, don't hesitate posting pictures and reports here.

Or should I ask you: Hey BoQ, do you know how to configure a VPN tunnel between two Cisco routers? Ha ha ha I know it, but just want to mock you asking this question. Get it?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> You are illustrating my point. Can't say that you have an AEGIS like system if you still have to develop the missile defense capability, which is a very important element of the system, that's why I say that is a work in progress.
> 
> You can't say that China's global strike system is more advance than USAs, most of their development is classified and you don't have access to it and anyway, my point is that you claim a capability that you still don't have, that's my problem. You can't say you have something while it is in development. Deployed and in development are 2 different things. Chaim it when you deploy it.



The 100% complete Star Ocean is on progress. Not that we just develop the Star Ocean right now, we have already deployed the Star Ocean right now, and we are adding more capabilities just as the missile interception with the HQ-26.

BTW, China has succeeded the hypersonic test more than 7 times, while the US not so much.

China has made the ground breaking Mach 20 hypersonic weapon right now, while the US has failed twice and has to restart everything from scratch.

BTW, don't be in denial, we beat them in a hypersonic race just like we handily beat them in the supercomputer race.


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## BoQ77

Vietnam can make ammunitions for all of firearms they own, AR-15, M-16, AK, M79, RPG, or heavy artillery, mortar, recoiless
For small firearm dont say as "can make NATO..." but say as "have demand to make or not" and Yes Vietnam has demand of 5.56 bullets as they have been using firearms of 5.56 for over 40 years.
They dont maintain production line of two size of ammunitions if the demand for each is low.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Self-made the SLBM is extremely hard. Otherwise, UK wouldn't give it up.
> 
> India and NK are only at the elementary level of this.


The UK has the option either to develop own SLBM or buy from the United States. She selected the first option because it saves money and time. Plus, any UK developed system would be inferior to the US missile system. It is a reasonable decision. Not because UK can't.


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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The 100% complete Star Ocean is on progress. Not that we just develop the Star Ocean right now, we have already deployed the Star Ocean right now, and we are adding more capabilities just as the missile interception with the HQ-26.
> 
> BTW, China has succeeded the hypersonic test more than 7 times, while the US not so much.
> 
> China has made the ground breaking Mach 20 hypersonic weapon right now, while the US has failed twice and has to restart everything from scratch.
> 
> BTW, don't be in denial, we beat them in a hypersonic race just we handily beat them in the supercomputer race.



I totally agree that China is doing very well in those areas, I'm simply saying that "in development" is not the same as "deployed".


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> The UK has the option either to develop own SLBM or buy from the United States. She selected the first option because it saves money and time. Plus, any UK developed system would be inferior to the US missile system. It is a reasonable decision. Not because UK can't.



It wouldn't match the reliable performance of the Trident missile.

Just look at France, it is still struggling with its M-51 SLBM.


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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> If you hear or know something, feel free and post here. Don't ask nor scold me when I post and translate from viet media. sometimes I am just the messenger. I won't complain if you do the same. If you visit ammo factory, don't hesitate posting pictures and reports here.
> 
> Or should I ask you: Hey BoQ, do you know how to configure a VPN tunnel between two Cisco routers? Ha ha ha I know it, but just want to mock you asking this question. Get it?



They dont allow you to take picture by yourself, if you need some pictures, they would take picture by themselves and provide you after checking carefully.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The 100% complete Star Ocean is on progress. Not that we just develop the Star Ocean right now, we have already deployed the Star Ocean right now, and we are adding more capabilities just as the missile interception with the HQ-26.
> 
> BTW, China has succeeded the hypersonic test more than 7 times, while the US not so much.
> 
> China has made the ground breaking Mach 20 hypersonic weapon right now, while the US has failed twice and has to restart everything from scratch.
> 
> BTW, don't be in denial, we beat them in a hypersonic race just we handily beat them in the supercomputer race.


I have a little problem with your announcement in military progress. Take F-35 fighter jet. While the media report problems after problems with the fighter jet development, there are hardly anything public what problems your stealth fighter jet has. It is as if China has a magic hand. It is as if your jet flies direct from the drawing board.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Carlosa said:


> I totally agree that China is doing very well in those areas, I'm simply saying that "in development" is not the same as "deployed".



Regardless our HGV is deployed or not, no one is more advanced than us in this area.

The Star Ocean is like an OS platform, it is just capable to handle all kind of software including the missile defense system. China has the OS, but some software hasn't been completed yet.

The US Aegis back 1990s also didn't have the missile defense capability either, but can you say it was not the Aegis?

The Aegis is also an OS platform, but the US later has added more software to the OS which means the new capabilities.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It wouldn't match the reliable performance of the Trident missile.
> 
> Just look at France, it is still struggling with its M-51 SLBM.


That's no surprise, given the US are technically more advanced, having more resources than the British. That is not cheap developing SLBM, maintaining nuclear Armageddon in arms race.

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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Regardless our HGV is deployed or not, no one is more advanced than us in this area.
> 
> The Star Ocean is like an OS platform, it is just capable to handle all kind of software including the missile defense system. China has the OS, but some software hasn't been completed yet.
> 
> The US Aegis back 1990s also didn't have the missile defense capability either, but can you say it was not the Aegis?
> 
> The Aegis is also an OS platform, but the US later has added more software to the OS which means the new capabilities.



The point that you miss is capability, you claim to have the same capability, but you don't. AEGIS is way ahead of yours. You make premature claims and you often claim systems still not deployed.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> I have a little problem with your announcement in military progress. Take F-35 fighter jet. While the media report problems after problems with the fighter jet development, there are hardly anything public what problems your stealth fighter jet has. It is as if China has a magic hand. It is as if your jet flies direct from the drawing board.



China is more confidential about their weapons, unlike the West.

BTW, F-35 is also full of glitches by itself, that's why so many problems have been reported.



Carlosa said:


> The point that you miss is capability, you claim to have the same capability, but you don't. AEGIS is way ahead of yours. You make premature claims and you often claim systems still not deployed.



We have no problem to accept the US Aegis currently has more functions than ours.

But we have our own Aegis platform as well, and it is not that hard to integrate the new capabilities such as the missile defense system into your own Aegis platform. The Aegis Flight I didn't have the missile defense capability as well, but later it got integrated with this capability.

BTW, our hypersonic is by far more ahead over the world, even the US themselves have to acknowledge this reality.



Viet said:


> That's no surprise, given the US are technically more advanced, having more resources than the British. That is not cheap developing SLBM, maintaining nuclear Armageddon in arms race.



The Trident missile is very good, but the only problem for UK is that they don't have to permission to inspect the missile or to obtain the code.

The nuclear code of the Trident missile was held by USA, and UK didn't have the permission to launch the missile by its own.


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## Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China is more confidential about their weapons, unlike the West.
> 
> BTW, F-35 is also full of glitches by itself, that's why so many problems have been reported.
> 
> 
> 
> We have no problem to accept the US Aegis currently has more functions than ours.
> 
> But we have our own Aegis platform as well, and it is not that hard to integrate the new capabilities such as the missile defense system into your own Aegis platform. The Aegis Flight I didn't have the missile defense capability as well, but later it got integrated with this capability.
> 
> BTW, our hypersonic is by far more ahead over the world, even the US themselves have to acknowledge this reality.
> 
> 
> 
> The Trident missile is very good, but the only problem for UK is that they don't have to permission to inspect the missile or to get the code.
> 
> The nuclear code of the Trident missile was held by USA, and UK didn't have the permission to launch the missile by its own.


Well I would love to see how your system performs in real combat against US carrier battle group. Naval battles are usually unpredictable. Sometimes it is luck, sometimes it is a tactic that decides who wins and who sinks to the bottom of ocean.

Are you sure about the UK have to ask permission before launching missiles? If no access to the technology, how can the British mount nuclear warheads on the Tridents?


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## Carlosa

Some info from the postings of @PARIKRAMA in other thread:











So there you get some basic footsteps into the so called ABM aspect 
http://thediplomat.com/2016/07/the-future-of-indias-defense-exports/

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/modi-visit-to-vietnam.447409/page-3#ixzz4JBu6psCY

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-ex...-strengthen-its-defence.447477/#ixzz4JDuZ5gGB


@PARIKRAMA what about Tejas acquisition by Vietnam,I remember a long time ago I came across an article which was citing sale of Tejas to Vietnam,any news or updates?

*Its under discussion but what they want is more than FOC model bcz they wish the fully integrated Derby and Python combination along with AESA radar, EW, HUD, etc. It seems Mk1A fits them better with what they want as a requirement*. So we have to wait and see.. If and when lines of Credit crosses $ 1Bn that may be the time for a squadron of LCA Mark1A and other associated infra being part of the same.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-ex...-strengthen-its-defence.447477/#ixzz4JDuuUVvh

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## BoQ77

Viet said:


> the news is already posted. I added here more pictures and comments. Field testing of Vietnam made 5.56 x 45mm and 7,62 x 51mm standard NATO calibre ammunition. So should the NATO ever face shortage, the alliance can place orders at Vietnam ammunition factories.
> 
> 
> test firing with 5.56 x 45 mm NATO calibre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> test firing with 7.62 x 51 mm NATO calibre
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



I guess you have no idea to make comment that way.

And answer my reasonable questions by irrelevant things as I dont have rifles at home, What is your intention...

If you know Vietnam using a lot of firearms like M16 Ar-15 with 5.56 bullets you would never miss your way to say about NATO or alliance... 

And your answer about Fleet is superb.

Anyway, Vietnam media tend to tittle exaggerated things for more views.


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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> I guess you have no idea to make comment that way.
> 
> And answer my reasonable questions by irrelevant things as I dont have rifles at home, What is your intention...
> 
> If you know Vietnam using a lot of firearms like M16 Ar-15 with 5.56 bullets you would never miss your way to say about NATO or alliance...
> 
> And your answer about Fleet is superb.
> 
> Anyway, Vietnam media tend to tittle exaggerated things for more views.



@Viet @BoQ77 Relax you two, we are all on the same side, use your energy against our opponent.

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## BoQ77

Actually, I just try whether I could have something agreed with the German Viet or not.
Now I know why @William Hung 

A Viet never call another similar Viet as trolling not only once and ask Mod to ban his own dong bao. The German Viet did it at least twice to me and William Hung.
I myself never do the same to him or any Viet, including hoangsa.

I appreciate the quality of WH post much more.

More important, he could catch the real facts and trends and really use his brain. Viet is ok but he acts as he is from Mars, rarely find him to conclude something properly.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> Well I would love to see how your system performs in real combat against US carrier battle group. Naval battles are usually unpredictable. Sometimes it is luck, sometimes it is a tactic that decides who wins and who sinks to the bottom of ocean.
> 
> Are you sure about the UK have to ask permission before launching missiles? If no access to the technology, how can the British mount nuclear warheads on the Tridents?



We will see, maybe around 2018-2020??? Since the whole world wants this to happen.

They can mount the warheads on the Trident missile. However, they have no right to inspect the critical components, and the launch code is held by the US.

The US doesn't want to sell the F-22 technology to anyone, including its closest ally Britain. So the Trident II missile will also not be an exemption.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The point that you miss is capability, you claim to have the same capability, but you don't. AEGIS is way ahead of yours. You make premature claims and you often claim systems still not deployed.


China secret military program is like a black box. It is very difficult to assess it. I remember when I once compared China quantum communications to a black box in another thread.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We will see, maybe around 2018-2020??? Since the whole world wants this to happen.
> 
> They can mount the warheads on the Trident missile. However, they have no right to inspect the critical components, and the launch code is held by the US.
> 
> The US doesn't want to sell the F-22 technology to anyone, including its closest ally Britain. So the Trident II missile will also not be an exemption.


I would like to get a confirmation that is true.

@mike2000 is back 

If the British depends on the US to release the launch code, then the nuclear deterrence is not what it is expected to be.

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## Carlosa

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US doesn't want to sell the F-22 technology to anyone, including its closest ally Britain. So the Trident II missile will also not be an exemption.



Actually, they are considering reopening the F-22 production line and selling an export version of the F-22 to Japan and Israel.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> China secret military program is like a black box. It is very difficult to assess it. I remember when I once compared China quantum communications to a black box in another thread.
> 
> 
> I would like to get a confirmation that is true.
> 
> @mike2000 is back
> 
> If the British depends on the US to release the launch code, then the nuclear deterrence is not what it is expected to be.



Of course, not just you, Russia/Japan/Europe/India/South Korea all want to see this happening. Maybe even the Arab nations and Iran, since they won't see the US harassing them anymore in the future.

You don't have to ask him, since even the British media is also skeptical about Britain's nuclear independence from the US.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-13442735



Carlosa said:


> Actually, they are considering reopening the F-22 production line and selling an export version of the F-22 to Japan and Israel.



They have first to amend the act of the export ban. It is unlikely happened in the near future.


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## Carlosa

*India and Vietnam: Long Lost Cousins?*
SOURCE: The Indian Economist






Tagore poetically stated that the closeness that people of India and Vietnam shared had a link that was embedded in history. The cultural and economic relations between the two date back to the ages of the Champa and later, the Mauryan and Gupta civilisations. The links embedded in Buddhism, language, social structure, as well as mindset, has made rebuilding linkages much easier than others.

*A Historical Link*
Vietnam remains among the most important South-east Asian nation for India’s security interests. People of Vietnam resolutely supported the freedom struggle in India; and while facing international reprimand, India stood by Vietnam in its testing times during the 60s and 70s.

The two had strategically remained closer to the Soviet Union than the US or China due to ideological differences, their individual strategic relations with either US or China, relations with neighbours, and Cold War politics. Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and President Ho Chi Minh made state visits during the 50s, making the Indian Prime Minister the first to visit Hanoi. India also supported the Hanoi government during the Vietnam War.

The relationship in between India and Vietnam started getting a formal shape after India joined the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF) in 1996. Within that time frame, India established a MoU on defence cooperation with Malaysia, which established a Malaysia-India Defence Cooperation Meeting (MIDCOM) at the senior officer level. Politically, Vietnam was a viable option for Indian decision makers as the other neighbours Myanmar was under a strong military junta, while Cambodia and Laos had strict communist regimes. India had close economic and strategic links with Singapore, while Thailand’s closer ties with China has instigated India to build a closer link with Vietnam. Presently, the Indian government provided a $100 million credit line in October 2015 to help Vietnam in defence procurement and the modernisation of its armed forces, including submarine training. This line of credit is being utilised by Vietnam presently for procurement of four Offshore Patrol Boats for their Border Guards.

India assured Vietnam of its full commitment to the strategic partnership between the two countries during a meeting in New Delhi between former Vietnamese defence minister PhùngQuang Thanh and Prime Minister Narendra Modi in May 2015.

During Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung’s visit, India agreed to supply four naval patrol vessels to Vietnam, increase the level of training of its military personnel, and raise its involvement in Vietnam’s energy sector. India’s entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) would legitimise and speed up the process of selling the BrahMos to Vietnam. The recent strategic engagement with Vietnam has been seen by many analysts as the Indian desire to protect its investments in the oil fields off Vietnam’s coast while strengthening Vietnamese naval power.

*India’s Strategic and Commercial Interests*
India has always stressed on freedom of navigation and over-flight, and unimpeded navigation in the South China Sea region. India signed an agreement with Vietnam in October 2011 to expand and promote oil exploration in the South China Sea and then reconfirmed its decision to carry on.

The ingrained economic relations that Vietnam and China share and the geographical closeness, make China an important neighbour, though not strategically unreliable. It is full of Vietnamese interests to tacitly strengthen its position militarily, without disturbing the regional balance. It has been one of the motivators of building a close strategic and defence cooperation with India, which had significant similarity in the defence hardware, along with a significant leverage in technology and skill.

According to former deputy prime minister of Vietnam Vu Khoan, “We understand that our country, in comparison with China, is a small one…Although they say friendship, they have invaded our territory. Ultimately, China must respect our nation and our sovereignty. Otherwise, Vietnamese will be ‘allergic’ to China”.





India has been participating actively in the modernisation of the defence forces of Vietnam. | Photo Courtesy: Passel

*Vietnamese Defense Modernisation and India*
Vietnam also turned its eye towards military modernization during the last five years. Vietnam is partnering with India to build a jointly operated satellite data transmission station.

The recent visit by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar to Vietnam in June 2016 to discuss new initiatives in the military sector. Both defence ministers discussed the need for sharing white shipping information to facilitate an exchange of data in the maritime domain. The two sides also focused on enhancing hydrographic cooperation. The major areas that has been identified for working together are for upgrade of Soviet legacy systems, up gradation of Thermal Sights and Fire Control Systems for – BMP, T 54 and T 55 Tanks, upgrade of MI 17 / Mi 8 Helicopters, Shipbuilding Programmes, Missile Systems from India and Software Defined Radios for Vietnam. The Indian defence minister stated that he desired Indian private sector to lead the initiative and explore and actively participate in Vietnamese modernization of defence forces. This will not only strengthen the diplomatic and military bond between both the nations but also open the doors of strategic exports (Indian Express, June 6, 2016). India’s joint counter-piracy patrols help shore up sea lines of communications (SLOCs). Both the countries’ navies are also part of MILAN, a multinational exercise and interaction with the navies of South East Asia [Singapore, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei and the Philippines] in the Bay of Bengal. It was initiated in 1995 and is a biennial gathering hosted by the Indian Navy.

*Suggested Areas of Cooperation*
There are multiple avenues that can strengthen defence and strategic cooperation between these two nations:


An area of defence cooperation in between India and Vietnam is in providing training to submariners particularly in regard to the Russian submarines.

Indian Air Force can actively cooperate through the training of technicians of the Sukhoi Aircraft as well as pilots on an annual basis. This arrangement can be set up in collaboration with the Indian Air Force, where a five-member training team can provide operational training to the young Vietnamese pilots.

Vietnam also lacks in the manufacturing of small arms which is associated with coastal security. There is significant scope for the manufacture of assault rifles that is used by Indian Coast Guard personnel. The Indian defence establishment can also set up manufacturing facilities of carbines and small range missiles for which the potential buyers will be both from India and Vietnam.

Both countries can work out a coastal defence mechanism to integrate coordination between marine or sea police, coastguards and navy, to thwart away attacks on commercial or strategic installations along the coast of both the countries.

Another area of cooperation remains to be the area of nano and microsatellite technology. Both India and Vietnam hold a wide range of offshore assets, including oil exploration sites and islands. The security of these assets should be reinforced by better aerial surveillance systems; and in this regard, the scientific and technological institutions along with universities that have developed itself on such research can undertake pioneering research based projects. These satellites can be used for geospatial mapping as well as for gathering environmental data and sea explorations.
There are other defence collaborative possibilities. The case of exporting Dhruv and Kamov helicopters, which are produced under Russian license, to Vietnam will also remain beneficial. The versatility of the Kamov helicopters would remain significant as they are efficient for monitoring and undertaking difficult terrain operations. India has also developed the Griffon/GRSE 8000 TD, a multi-purpose hovercraft which has been inducted by the Indian Coast Guard. Such technology will certainly benefit the Vietnamese Marine Police significantly.
*Assessment*
With the rise of the Asian century, there is a need to strengthen the ancient bonds that existed before. With various strategic regional forums in place, India with a robust expertise in defence and space technologies and hardware production is slowly turning into a destination as well as a viable partner for such forums. India and Vietnam have come a long way together, fostering a relationship based on mutual trust and understanding.

With the fast-changing scenario in the neighbourhood and the rising challenges that are faced by Vietnam, India can play a larger role in strengthening the regional strategic theatre by coming closer to Vietnam in the strategic and defence sectors.

With the sharing of each other’s expertise and technological know-how, together they can counter the larger powers at play, threatening the regional stability and strategic maritime routes.

Courtesy of @LOGICAL BOSSS

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet @BoQ77 Relax you two, we are all on the same side, use your energy against our opponent.


I have no problem with him, just don't understand why he feels a need to stop discussion on topics he dislikes. Irrelevant as he says it. By citing reasons nobody understands. There are a lot of Chinese threads he can troll on.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> That's no surprise, given the US are technically more advanced, having more resources than the British. That is not cheap developing SLBM, maintaining nuclear Armageddon in arms race.



This further confirms that the UK doesn't have an independent nuclear policy, and Mike 2000 cannot refute this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-to-tell-Russia-Britains-nuclear-secrets.html


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## cochine

*India PM offers Vietnam $500 million credit line for defense cooperation*



Reuters/TN News

Saturday, September 03, 2016 15:16 Email Print




India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi (R) reviews the guard of honour with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc during a welcoming ceremony at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi, Vietnam September 3, 2016.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Saturday his country would provide a credit line of half a billion dollars to Vietnam for defense cooperation, the latest sign of closer ties between two countries.
The credit offered by Modi, the first Indian prime minister to visit Vietnam in 15 years, was among a dozen cooperation agreements he signed in Hanoi alongside Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc.
In an interview before his trip, Modi said his visit is intended to further boost bilateral and multilateral engagement and cooperation in many fields, including trade, investment, science and technology, space research, defense and security.

Vietnam and India have strengthened their defense ties in recent years. India also extended another credit line of $100 million to Vietnam for buying a number of naval vessels.
India is already training the Vietnam Navy personnel in operating the Russian-origin Kilo-class submarine

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## BoQ77

5.56 rifles are main firearms of Vietnam militia in Central and Southern provinces, such as Da Nang, Daknong, HCMC, Binh Duong, Hau Giang, Tien Giang ...

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## Silent Knight

@BoQ77 @Viet 

Vietnam has already self-produced ammunition for the AR-15 and M-16 for years. But it's the .223 Remington ammunition, not 5.56x45mm NATO ones.

So the news about Vietnam self-produces 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition is correct. It'll be used in the TAR-21 assault rifles, along with 7.62x51mm NATO for the Galazt DMR.


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## BoQ77

You guys stressed too much on "able to make"
I must say that "Vietnam is able to make whatever ... as long as there is demand"
In production line, the different sizes need very little change applied to.
From shells for heavy artillery, AAA to M1 carbine, M1 GarAnd, M16, 5.56 Galil 7.62 Galil. M60... 
It is only ammunitions for Xuan Vinh, Vietnam need to import.


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## ahojunk

Kindly stay on topic "Vietnam Military News & Discussion" as far as possible.

Tip: If you think the post is a troll, please ignore it.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> @BoQ77 @Viet
> 
> Vietnam has already self-produced ammunition for the AR-15 and M-16 for years. But it's the .223 Remington ammunition, not 5.56x45mm NATO ones.
> 
> So the news about Vietnam self-produces 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition is correct. It'll be used in the TAR-21 assault rifles, along with 7.62x51mm NATO for the Galazt DMR.


Ok thanks for the clarification 



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This further confirms that the UK doesn't have an independent nuclear policy, and Mike 2000 cannot refute this.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-to-tell-Russia-Britains-nuclear-secrets.html


You troll the British. I read the article, it says the British have full control on Trident's missiles, it's firing does not require any permission, neither satellites nor the codes of the US.

The article in the url you provided here says, the US reveals the serial numbers of all British Tridents to Russia. So Putin knows how many nuclear warheads are loaded on British submarines. That is a slap in the face of the British government but I consider it as a mild slap.

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## Carlosa

*India and Vietnam Boost Military, Commercial Ties*
*http://www.wsj.com/article_email/india-and-vietnam-boost-military-commercial-ties-1472887239-lMyQjAxMTE2NDA4MzEwODMwWj*




ENLARGE
Vietnam’s Nguyen Xuan Phuc and India’s Narendra Modi feed fish in Hanoi, Vietnam, on Saturday, Sept. 3, 2016. Photo: Reuters

By
Vu Trong Khanh

Updated Sept. 3, 2016 3:55 p.m. ET
HANOI—India on Saturday agreed to provide Vietnam with a $500 million loan for defense purposes, a further sign of warming ties between two countries in separate territorial disputes with China.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc also announced after their meeting in Hanoi that Vietnam and India have upgraded their diplomatic relations to the level of comprehensive strategic partnership from strategic partnership.

“Our decision to upgrade our strategic partnership to a comprehensive strategic partnership will provide a new direction and momentum to our bilateral cooperation,” Mr. Modi said. “Our common efforts will also contribute to stability, security and prosperity in this region.”

The alliance between India and Vietnam is set to develop further in the wake of Mr. Modi’s visit. India is negotiating to sell supersonic Brahmos cruise missiles to Vietnam, a deal that might also include the stationing of Indian technicians there to maintain the hardware.

Defense analysts say the weapons are ideally suited to taking out naval targets. In seeking to upgrade military capabilities as China improves its own capabilities, Vietnam has emerged as the world’s eighth-largest arms importer from 2011 to 2015, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

Military cooperation between the two countries has moved forward quickly over the past decade. There have been several high-ranking military exchanges, and in 2014 India signed an agreement to lend Vietnam $100 million to buy defense equipment.

Indian warships have also made a point of visiting Vietnamese ports, part of Hanoi’s own policy of encouraging more international navies into the contested waters of the South China Sea, where both Vietnam and China have overlapping claims to some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. New Delhi, in turn, has made Vietnam a focal point of its policy to expand its economic and diplomatic ties in East Asia.

Vietnam and India on Saturday also signed an agreement for India’s Larsen & Toubro Ltd.to design and build vessels for the Vietnam Coast Guard, and to transfer shipbuilding technologies to Vietnam. The two countries also signed several other cooperation agreements, covering cybersecurity, information technology, health care, environment and naval-information issues.

The commercial relationship between India and Vietnam—two of Asia’s fastest-growing economies—is also deepening, aiming to triple trade to $15 billion by 2020. Indian energy firm ONGC Videsh Ltd. is working with Vietnam’s state-run oil company PetroVietnam to develop oil and gas reserves off Vietnam’s coast.

Preeti Saran, a senior official in India’s foreign ministry, told reporters in New Delhi on Thursday that negotiations have started for Indian energy firms to acquire additional exploration rights in Vietnamese waters. She also pointed to Tata Power Co. ’s $1.8 billion thermal-power project in Vietnam as a key to placing India among the top 10 investors in Vietnam.




ENLARGE
Brahmos missiles in New Delhi, India, in August 2016. Photo: Associated Press

Still, China’s expanding influence both in the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean colors Mr. Modi’s visit. India, too, has its own territorial dispute with China, with the two nations disagreeing on the exact location of the nearly 2,200-mile border that separates them. 

Carlyle Thayer, emeritus professor and a Vietnam expert at the Australian Defence Force Academy, notes that the Indian leader’s visit to Vietnam follows high-level Chinese visits to Pakistan last year, where China is helping to finance the development and expansion of the deep-water port at Gwadar on the Arabian Sea. The port is an important component in Beijing’s efforts to expand trade and influence across Asia and into the Middle East and Africa.

Mr. Modi leaves Vietnam today for Hangzhou, China, where he will join U.S. President Barack Obama, Chinese President Xi Jinping and other world leaders for the Group of 20 summit.

—Niharika Mandhana in New Delhi contributed to this article.

*Write to *Vu Trong Khanh at Trong-Khanh.Vu@dowjones.com

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *India and Vietnam Boost Military, Commercial Ties*
> *http://www.wsj.com/article_email/india-and-vietnam-boost-military-commercial-ties-1472887239-lMyQjAxMTE2NDA4MzEwODMwWj*
> 
> 
> 
> ENLARGE
> Vietnam’s Nguyen Xuan Phuc and India’s Narendra Modi feed fish in Hanoi, Vietnam, on Saturday, Sept. 3, 2016. Photo: Reuters
> 
> By
> Vu Trong Khanh
> 
> Updated Sept. 3, 2016 3:55 p.m. ET
> HANOI—India on Saturday agreed to provide Vietnam with a $500 million loan for defense purposes, a further sign of warming ties between two countries in separate territorial disputes with China.
> 
> Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc also announced after their meeting in Hanoi that Vietnam and India have upgraded their diplomatic relations to the level of comprehensive strategic partnership from strategic partnership.
> 
> “Our decision to upgrade our strategic partnership to a comprehensive strategic partnership will provide a new direction and momentum to our bilateral cooperation,” Mr. Modi said. “Our common efforts will also contribute to stability, security and prosperity in this region.”
> 
> The alliance between India and Vietnam is set to develop further in the wake of Mr. Modi’s visit. India is negotiating to sell supersonic Brahmos cruise missiles to Vietnam, a deal that might also include the stationing of Indian technicians there to maintain the hardware.
> 
> Defense analysts say the weapons are ideally suited to taking out naval targets. In seeking to upgrade military capabilities as China improves its own capabilities, Vietnam has emerged as the world’s eighth-largest arms importer from 2011 to 2015, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.
> 
> Military cooperation between the two countries has moved forward quickly over the past decade. There have been several high-ranking military exchanges, and in 2014 India signed an agreement to lend Vietnam $100 million to buy defense equipment.
> 
> Indian warships have also made a point of visiting Vietnamese ports, part of Hanoi’s own policy of encouraging more international navies into the contested waters of the South China Sea, where both Vietnam and China have overlapping claims to some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes. New Delhi, in turn, has made Vietnam a focal point of its policy to expand its economic and diplomatic ties in East Asia.
> 
> Vietnam and India on Saturday also signed an agreement for India’s Larsen & Toubro Ltd.to design and build vessels for the Vietnam Coast Guard, and to transfer shipbuilding technologies to Vietnam. The two countries also signed several other cooperation agreements, covering cybersecurity, information technology, health care, environment and naval-information issues.
> 
> The commercial relationship between India and Vietnam—two of Asia’s fastest-growing economies—is also deepening, aiming to triple trade to $15 billion by 2020. Indian energy firm ONGC Videsh Ltd. is working with Vietnam’s state-run oil company PetroVietnam to develop oil and gas reserves off Vietnam’s coast.
> 
> Preeti Saran, a senior official in India’s foreign ministry, told reporters in New Delhi on Thursday that negotiations have started for Indian energy firms to acquire additional exploration rights in Vietnamese waters. She also pointed to Tata Power Co. ’s $1.8 billion thermal-power project in Vietnam as a key to placing India among the top 10 investors in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ENLARGE
> Brahmos missiles in New Delhi, India, in August 2016. Photo: Associated Press
> 
> Still, China’s expanding influence both in the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean colors Mr. Modi’s visit. India, too, has its own territorial dispute with China, with the two nations disagreeing on the exact location of the nearly 2,200-mile border that separates them.
> 
> Carlyle Thayer, emeritus professor and a Vietnam expert at the Australian Defence Force Academy, notes that the Indian leader’s visit to Vietnam follows high-level Chinese visits to Pakistan last year, where China is helping to finance the development and expansion of the deep-water port at Gwadar on the Arabian Sea. The port is an important component in Beijing’s efforts to expand trade and influence across Asia and into the Middle East and Africa.
> 
> Mr. Modi leaves Vietnam today for Hangzhou, China, where he will join U.S. President Barack Obama, Chinese President Xi Jinping and other world leaders for the Group of 20 summit.
> 
> —Niharika Mandhana in New Delhi contributed to this article.
> 
> *Write to *Vu Trong Khanh at Trong-Khanh.Vu@dowjones.com


Great stuffs. Though I miss news concerning Brahmos, no concrete acquisition plan. maybe the deal is hided in the $500 million loan.

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## Viet

Aug 30, 2016

*A US-Vietnam Alliance: Prospects And Challenges*




_Anders Corr, Contributor

I cover international politics, security and political risk. 
Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own._

China’s increasing militarization and persistent maritime claims against Vietnam threaten not only that country, but the international rule-based system of international law developed over the last century. The League of Nations, founded in 1919, and the United Nations, founded in 1945, were meant to be rule-based systems to decrease the risk of military conflict. Yet China refuses to follow international law, and seems to have forgotten the wretched history of wars that preceded these great peace-making institutions.






_US State Secretary John Kerry (L) shakes hands with Vietnam’s Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh (R) during a ASEAN-United States meeting on the sideline of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) annual ministerial meeting and the Regional Security Forum in Vientiane on July 25, 2016.Vietnam has warned that the inability of Southeast Asian nations to forge a unified front against Beijing’s militarisation of the South China Sea is a ‘test’ of the regional bloc in the face of its greatest security challenge. HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/Getty Images_


Indeed, China is determined to follow the chimera of its own territorial growth, at the expense of its neighbors. Perhaps China’s hand is forced by a public opinion starved of informational oxygen due to press restrictions. But as China controls the press, so should it control the overly nationalistic sentiment of its population. Regardless of where one stands on this rather pedantic debate about causes of the conflict, China’s territorial aggression is crystal clear.

To contain it requires increased bilateral and multilateral economic and defense cooperation between Asian-Pacific partners. A broad multilateral alliance is optimal to deter China from military conflict in Asia. But even bilateral alliances will help, including between the U.S. and Vietnam.

Due to current U.S. military and economic superiority over China, the U.S. is the linchpin bilateral alliance partner for claimant states in Asia that plan to defend their maritime or territorial rights, whether through military deterrence or economic sanctions. A strong U.S.-Vietnam alliance would strengthen immediate deterrence, leverage economic trade to influence China, decisively remove Vietnam from China and Russia’s camp, and progress Asia towards a stronger future multilateral alliance in which the U.S. is a leading participant and democratization of China is one of the goals.

An incipient U.S.-Vietnamese alliance should include greater economic, diplomatic, and military cooperation, and can be achieved by: overcoming political and value-based differences between the two countries; strengthening the U.S. defense commitment to Asia generally and Vietnam specifically; increasing economic integration between the U.S. and Vietnam; decreasing Vietnam’s economic and defense dependence on China and Russia; and decreasing U.S. economic dependence on China.

Alternative allies exist for Vietnam, in particular the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and Russia. But a strong bilateral alliance between the U.S. and Vietnam is an essential complement to its traditional participation with these two rather weak political entities.

Consensual multilateral alliances such as ASEAN cannot be relied upon to effectively stop China’s territorial and maritime growth. For example, China’s loan of just $600 million to Cambodia on July 15, three days after the Permanent Court of Arbitration award to the Philippines, probably stopped issuance of a stronger message on the South China Sea by ASEAN foreign ministers at their July 24 meeting. ASEAN will be irrelevant on China issues until it dispenses with Cambodia’s veto power.

Transforming ASEAN, if it happens at all, will take a long time. Meanwhile, Vietnam needs a stronger partner to resist China.

That partner will never be Russia, which depends on China’s economy for exports of oil, gas, and defense technology. The old diplomatic relationship between China and Russia, in which China simply followed Russia’s diplomatic lead in places like the United Nations, is no more. Now Russia is more likely to follow China’s lead. So Vietnam cannot rely on Russian troops or even Russian military technology, such as the six kilo-class submarines it recently purchased. What if, in a time of war, China told Russia to stop providing submarine technical expertise and delivering spare parts to Vietnam? When push comes to shove, Russia will follow the lead of China.

The U.S. is a great alternative ally for Vietnam, but it will take work and time. U.S. credibility in Asia and Europe is eroding and needs revival. The Philippines seems to have lost Scarborough Shoal, within its own exclusive economic zone (EEZ), even though it has a defense treaty with the U.S. and defense cooperation with Japan.

Ukraine lost Crimea to Russia despite the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, in which the U.S., U.K., and Russia gave security assurances to Ukraine in exchange for relinquishing its nuclear weapons. The U.S. has not demonstrated, of late, a willingness to go to war to defend allied territory, even where a formal written agreement exists. That reticence actually invites aggression. The U.S. should frankly acknowledge these failures in order to correct its strategy in future, and broadcast a new tougher stance against Russian and Chinese territorial expansionism. This will be important to strengthening U.S. alliances.

Vietnam will also be wary of an alliance with the U.S. because the U.S. prioritizes alliances with countries that are democratic, wealthy, engage in large amounts of trade with the U.S., and have no outstanding territorial conflicts. The more democratic, wealthy, and economically connected, the greater the likelihood that the U.S. will defend an ally. The Philippines and Ukraine, both of which are trying to increase the cohesion and depth of their defense alliances with the U.S. and other western democracies, are both more democratic than Vietnam. Neither country had a major ongoing territorial dispute when they signed security agreements with the U.S. Given the unfortunate track record the U.S. has in defending these two countries, Vietnam’s leadership will be understandably leery of putting too much trust in any U.S. security guarantees.

From the U.S. perspective, Vietnam’s relatively low absolute trade with the U.S., low scores on democracy and freedom of speech, small GDP, and recent history of territorial conflict with China and Cambodia, including Vietnam’s current maritime dispute with China in the South China Sea, make Vietnam a risky ally. The U.S. will avoid committing to a potentially entangling alliance that could yield low returns, anger its trading partner China, and potentially even draw the U.S. into war with China.


Despite all these obstacles, moving towards an alliance is the best option for both the U.S. and Vietnam. if China captures Vietnam’s maritime resources, China will be economically strengthened and militarily emboldened to capture more. If China increases its influence in Vietnamese politics, Vietnam could be used against the U.S. economically, diplomatically, and even militarily. Chinese client states such as North Korea and Cambodia create huge problems for the U.S. and allies in Asia.

If the U.S. fails to draw closer to Vietnam through this window of opportunity, Vietnam could irreconcilably join a pro-China orbit. As much as the domino theory has been discredited, there is a domino theory redux here. If Vietnam falls to Chinese influence, that will strengthen China and increase the chance that other countries will fall as well.

While the U.S. may not be the most certain of allies for a relatively poor and undemocratic country, it is better than nothing. Vietnam’s ability to defend its EEZ would be strengthened by closer economic integration and a defense alliance with the U.S. Deeply strengthened cooperation between the U.S., Vietnam, and other claimant countries, will be crucial over the next decade for Vietnam’s ability to defend its independence and international market access. Vietnamese hedging between China and the U.S. will not work.

Challenges to U.S.-Vietnamese cooperation abound. Vietnam and the U.S. lack trust given their history of war and different political values on issues such as democracy and freedom of speech. However, Vietnam is working hard to overcome this historical legacy. They recently allowed, for the first time, an Australian military commemoration of the war on Vietnamese soil.






_Australian war veterans wear their medals at the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Service in Sydney on August 18, 2016. Vietnam will allow an Australian war commemoration to go ahead on the site of the Battle of Long Tan on Thursday’s 50th anniversary, reversing an earlier ban, a minister said. PETER PARKS/AFP/Getty Images_


China uses international business ties to influence both Vietnamese and U.S. politics, including through both the Democratic and Republican parties. With that influence, China discourages U.S. involvement in Asian politics, especially in the South China Sea. The economic elements of growing the U.S.-Vietnam alliance, for example economic sanctions on China and increased economic integration between Vietnam and the U.S., are therefore critical so that the project is not undermined.

These challenges can be overcome through five measures:

1) political decisions to reorient business ties away from China, and towards each other, for example through the Trans-Pacific Partnership;

2) increased development aid;

3) increased military-to-military agreements, training, aid, and cooperation;

4) increased intelligence sharing;

5) increased diplomacy, including of the Track-2 and citizen variety; and

6) the issuance of official apologies where appropriate and politically possible, including by the U.S. to Vietnam, and through a reconciliation between Vietnam and Vietnamese-Americans.

Vietnamese-Americans could be a powerful interest group in the U.S. promoting Vietnam’s independence from China. It would be in Vietnam and America’s interest to more effectively leverage them to counterbalance Chinese influence in U.S. politics. This might encourage the U.S. to stand up against China, which it needs to do in order to maintain its own political integrity and adherence to founding ideals.

I believe that Vietnam would prefer to remain neutral in the emerging conflict between its top trade partners, China and the U.S. But neutrality entails the risk of having Vietnam’s EEZ and maritime shipping lanes captured by China, its economy subjugated by a new Chinese mercantilism, and its independent foreign policy, over the next decade, subsumed by China. Alliance with the U.S. admittedly entails risk — including from diplomatic tension with China, military conflict, and economic costs due to potential sanctions against China.

This is the insoluble dilemma that Vietnam faces. There is no easy or perfect solution to countering China’s territorial expansion at the expense of Vietnam. But, a U.S.-Vietnamese defense alliance would strengthen both countries and thereby make military or economic conflict with China less likely. We should take the opportunity while we still have the chance.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Great stuffs. Though I miss news concerning Brahmos, no concrete acquisition plan. maybe the deal is hided in the $500 million loan.



As you can see, India is doing more for Vietnam in the military front than Japan and there is much more going on under the carpet.

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## gambit

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China is more confidential about their weapons, unlike the West.
> 
> BTW, F-35 is also full of glitches by itself, that's why so many problems have been reported.


That just mean China simply does not report program issues. Unless you are willing to declare that you believe Chinese weapons programs are issues free. *THAT* would be laughable to highest degree.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Great stuffs. Though I miss news concerning Brahmos, no concrete acquisition plan. maybe the deal is hided in the $500 million loan.


Nothing going to be revealed that what inside $ 500 mn.


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## LOGICAL BOSSS

*Vietnam top leaders hail India’s position on disputed South China Sea*
Published September 4, 2016
SOURCE: PTI






Vietnam’s top leaders on Saturday lauded India’s position on the disputed South China Sea (SCS) and sought its participation in oil and gas sectors of the Communist nation, as they hailed the upgradation of bilateral ties to Comprehensive Strategic Partnership.

Vietnam appreciates India’s principled position on the South China Sea issue, Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong told Prime MinisterNarendra Modi when the latter called on him, sources said.“We must also intensify our coordination in regional and multilateral fora,” he told Modi, who reiterated that India always stood as a friend with Vietnam throughout history.

“It would be rare to find such a relationship which has lasted 2,000 years,” he told Trong and recalled the Vietnamese leader’s visit to India in 2013.


China is involved in a raging dispute with the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei over ownership of territory in the SCS, a busy waterway through which India’s 50 per cent trade passes.

India supports freedom of navigation and over flight, and unimpeded commerce, based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea).

India believes that states should resolve disputes through peaceful means without threat or use of force and exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that could complicate or escalate disputes affecting peace and stability.

The Prime Minister said areas such as cyber security and information technology would benefit from the creation of a task force and help the two sides solve future problems.

Trong agreed that India-Vietnam relations were time tested and very durable. He said he had visited India twice in 2010 and 2013 and both visits had left very good impressions.

Noting that India is a major country with unique and age old civilisation and culture, he said Vietnamese people had never forgotten India’s strong support during Vietnam’s struggle for independence, sources said.

“The upgradation of relationship to Comprehensive Strategic Partnership was an indicator of the importance Vietnam attaches to India. It has strategic partnerships only with two other countries, Russia and China,” he said.

He also thanked Modi for India’s support to Vietnam’s armed forces and agreed with the Prime Minister that cooperation in cyber security was very important.

Prime Minister Modi also called on Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the Presidential Palace on Saturday. “Our partnership will strengthen peace, development and security in the region,” President Quang told Modi.

Noting that Vietnam was a priority in India’s Act East policy, the Prime Minister lauded the strong foundation that had been laid for security and defence ties between the two countries, sources said.

President Quang said Vietnam fully supports India’s Act East Policy and thanked New Delhi for its consistent support to socio-economic development of this south east Asian nation.

He welcomed the upcoming 45th anniversary of diplomatic ties between India and Vietnam and 10th anniversary of the establishment of the Strategic Partnership which has been now elevated Comprehensive Strategic Partnership.

Prime Minister Modi recalled Quang’s visit to India in 2013 as Minister for Public Security. He said greater economic partnership would be a win-win for both countries. As ASEAN country coordinator for India during 2016-18, Vietnam can take forward relations between the two sides even further, he added.

President Quang called for frequent high-level exchanges to further strengthen political trust between the two sides.

He sought further support from India in investment, education, training and science and technology. He also sought more Indian participation in oil and gas sectors of Vietnam, sources said.

Both the leaders expressed great optimism for the future of India Vietnam ties. Prime Minister Modi invited Quang to visit India. President thanked him for the invitation.

Earlier, Prime Minister Modi met with Speaker of National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan. The two leaders called for greater parliamentary exchanges between the two countries.

Ngan said she would be visiting India in December. She recalled long standing historical and cultural ties with India and said as a young girl she used to watch Indian films. The two leaders applauded the decision to upgrade the ties to a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership, sources said

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## TenLua

BoQ77 said:


> 5.56 rifles are main firearms of Vietnam militia in Central and Southern provinces, such as Da Nang, Daknong, HCMC, Binh Duong, Hau Giang, Tien Giang ...



Their form is so much better now. They used to lean back while shooting an assault rifle, and I wondered how they could be allowed to make such amateur mistake.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> I'm sure they know this, but lack the technology.
> 
> Air power have proven to be too effective to ignore.


the emergence of air power has changed everything in wars. in the second world war, japanese bombers Mitsubishi G3M took off from Saigon airbase, loaded by 500 kg armor piercing bombs, attacked two british battleships Prince of Wales and Repulse in the South China sea (1941). when the battleships were sunk, the fate of Singapore was sealed. the time of battleship was over. found some nice drawing pictures, better than photographs.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> the emergence of air power has changed everything in wars. in the second world war, japanese bombers Mitsubishi G3M took off from Saigon airbase, loaded by 500 kg armor piercing bombs, attacked two british battleships Prince of Wales and Repulse in the South China sea (1941). when the battleships were sunk, the fate of Singapore was sealed. the time of battleship was over.



With drone technology you can add a layer of support/asset to all branches of the Vietnamese military. If you keep up with the war in Syria, drones are being used to monitor enemy position. Not only that, drone application in the military are countless. 

Instead of R&D in aircraft and warship which have too many components, Vietnam should focus on drones and innovate in a direction they want. drones for ship based air defense for starter.

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## Carlosa

Does anybody know why BoQ77 got banned?


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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> Does anybody know why BoQ77 got banned?



I heard it had something to do with the wrong flag.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Does anybody know why BoQ77 got banned?


he trolls too hard in chinese defence section, angering chinese and pakistani posters.

@ChineseTiger1986

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> he trolls too hard in chinese defence section, angering chinese and pakistani posters.
> 
> @ChineseTiger1986



He gets banned all the time, the same story keeps repeating.

Its not worth it to go there, they come at you like a wolf pack.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> He gets banned all the time, the same story keeps repeating.
> 
> Its not worth it to go there, they come at you like a wolf pack.


when I troll, hardly anyone notices it. when BoQ trolls, EVERYONE notice it. usually I don´t care if he trolls or not, but the thing is he brings Vietnam into a bad light. I once asked him to reduce trolling a bit as many other posters complain and scold on Vietnam. but he scolds me saying I try to hinder his freedom of speech.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> Does anybody know why BoQ77 got banned?



It doesn’t help if another fellow viet member accuse him of trolling, especially due to personal vendetta. That just give the Chinese mod even more excuse to arbitrarily ban him. I seen this epidemic recently, viet member accusing other viet members of trolling and asking mod to ban. Or even tagging Chinese trolls for back up against fellow viet member.


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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> It doesn’t help if another fellow viet member accuse him of trolling, especially due to personal vendetta. That just give the Chinese mod even more excuse to arbitrarily ban him. I seen this epidemic recently, viet member accusing other viet members of trolling and asking mod to ban. Or even tagging Chinese trolls for back up against fellow viet member.



What mod banned him this time? The usual one?



Viet said:


> when I troll, hardly anyone notices it. when BoQ trolls, EVERYONE notice it. usually I don´t care if he trolls or not, but the thing is he brings Vietnam into a bad light. I once asked him to reduce trolling a bit as many other posters complain and scold on Vietnam. but he scolds me saying I try to hinder his freedom of speech.



I've checked his last postings and I didn't see any trolling or fighting, that's why I'm wondering.


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> What mod banned him this time? The usual one?
> 
> 
> 
> I've checked his last postings and I didn't see any trolling or fighting, that's why I'm wondering.



Looking at past history, it could just be anything arbitrary like “off-topic” or things they interpret as “flaming”. Did I tell you once we both wrote posts on how Vietnamese generally are good friends to Chinese in real life but we got warning for flaming or something like that. Basically, anything could be arbitrarily interpreted as flaming or topic.

Hence I want some clarification in this thread on specifically what constitute as on-topic or off-topic since things here looks arbitrarily interpreted as “off-topic” or “flaming” without specification given.


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## hoangsa74

TenLua said:


> Their form is so much better now. They used to lean back while shooting an assault rifle, and I wondered how they could be allowed to make such* amateur mistake*.


And that's just basic infantry skills.


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## TenLua

hoangsa74 said:


> And that's just basic infantry skills.



So I thought maybe training is overrated. Rome had a professional army, and it was sacked by barbarians. And who would think that booby traps still work in this day and age. Quite effective too, that is undeniable. So maybe, just maybe, all that glamorous hardware and gear is the trigger that lead some to under-estimate their opponent.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> What mod banned him this time? The usual one?
> 
> I've checked his last postings and I didn't see any trolling or fighting, that's why I'm wondering.


before anyone here accuses me of foul play, I didn't do anything but was surprised by the ban too. I was able to read some of his posts before they were deleted. There was a discussion in China defence section talking about j10 jet and other variants, where BoQ angered some by offensive remarks.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> before anyone here accuses me of foul play, I didn't do anything but was surprised by the ban too. I was able to read some of his posts before they were deleted. There was a discussion in China defence section talking about j10 jet and other variants, where BoQ angered some by offensive remarks.



Ah ok, that's what it was then, same story again. What mod banned him, do you know? There are a lot of mods now.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ah ok, that's what it was then, same story again. What mod banned him, do you know? There are a lot of mods now.


The thread in question is "why no export success for j10...?". You can see traces although many posts were deleted. No, I don't know who bans him. Should BoQ return one day, he can tell us. Yes same story.

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## conkhi

Viet said:


> when I troll, hardly anyone notices it. when BoQ trolls, EVERYONE notice it. usually I don´t care if he trolls or not, but the thing is he brings Vietnam into a bad light. I once asked him to reduce trolling a bit as many other posters complain and scold on Vietnam. but he scolds me saying I try to hinder his freedom of speech.



nobody notices it?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Viet said:


> he trolls too hard in chinese defence section, angering chinese and pakistani posters.
> 
> @ChineseTiger1986



I have already been habitual with him, and I also miss other Viet posters such as NiceGuy and EastSea.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Instead of R&D in aircraft and warship which have too many components, Vietnam should focus on drones and innovate in a direction they want. drones for ship based air defense for starter.


Well, in that regard, Vietnam has already produced several models of UAV and *UCAV.*

Good thing for sure.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Well, in that regard, Vietnam has already produced several models of UAV and *UCAV.*
> 
> Good thing for sure.


UCVA? any specific details?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> UCVA? any specific details?


The HS-06 that have 4.000 km range and 35 hours endurace, along with UAV-04.

They can be fitted with air-to-ground missiles/bomb, much like the MQ-9 Reaper. Or be fitted with a warhead and become the suicide UAV.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> The HS-06 that have 4.000 km range and 35 hours endurace, along with UAV-04.
> 
> They can be fitted with air-to-ground missiles/bomb, much like the MQ-9 Reaper. Or be fitted with a warhead and become the suicide UAV.


ah you mean that one. got any schedule when the bird makes debut in the south china sea?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> ah you mean that one. got any schedule when the bird makes debut in the south china sea?


Unfortunately, it's classified


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Unfortunately, it's classified


ha ha ha... the green tea faction again?


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## Viet

*Why India needs to ramp up its token training of Vietnamese Submariners*

Published September 3, 2016
SOURCE: DAILYO








On August 31, the first batch of Vietnamese navy submariners finished a six-month course at the Indian Navy’s premier training school, INS Satavahana in Visakhapatnam. These personnel, 20 officers and 40 sailors, will go on to man the Vietnam Peoples Navy’s six Russian-built Kilo class submarines. This bit of military diplomacy comes just as Prime Minister Narendra Modi lands in Hanoi on September 3 for the first state visit by an Indian PM in 15 years.

Foreign secretary S Jaishankar told media in New Delhi on Friday to expect “strong outcomes” from the prime minister’s visit. There is speculation about military hardware sales like the Indo-Russian Brahmos supersonic cruise missiles and patrol craft.

There is no sign, however, of India undertaking what could be a potential game-changer: advanced submarine tactical training for the Vietnamese.

This is because the present training course is nothing more than a token exercise. The 60 Vietnamese navy personnel, the crew strength of one Kilo-class submarine, were only given a basic training course at INS Satavahana. Most of it was in classrooms to understand the structure of the submarine and familiarise navigators, engineers, communicators about the onboard systems.

To use an air force analogy, it would be like the first stage of ab-initio training using piston-engine trainer aircraft. Except, there is very little exposure to an actual submarine. What the Vietnamese People’s Navy really needs—and this has been borne out by recent visits to Vietnam made by Indian officials — is training in advanced undersea warfare. Vietnam’s 2009 decision to buy six Kilo-class submarines from Russia was influenced by China’s muscle flexing in the region.

Submarines like the Kilo class armed with torpedoes, sea mines and anti-ship and land-attack cruise missiles, are lethal steel sharks. They prowl undetected as they perform sea-denial missions or prevent the enemy the freedom to use the sea. Submarines allow smaller navies to tie down larger navies and are a bit like guerillas of the sea. This would seem like a natural choice for the Vietnamese whose nimble Viet Cong guerillas inflicted military defeats on three of the five Permanent Members of the UN Security Council, including China in 1979.

But operating submarines is a far more complex game than running fleet-footed guerillas. The Vietnam People’s Navy, essentially a gunboat navy that has never operated submarines, is attempting one of the biggest capability leaps by any global navy in buying these complex undersea platforms.

This is where the Indian navy, that has operated Kilo-class submarines in tropical waters for over thirty years, fits in. It needs to provide Vietnamese submariners with the tactical training to exploit the sturdy Kilo class submarines to their maximum war-fighting potential, particularly the second, six-month advanced phase where crews spend 45 days on board submarines at sea. At the end of this one-year course, the crew are presented with the prestigious twin dolphins which qualify them as full-fledged submariners.

In the advanced course, crews are taught to stalk enemy warships, mine harbours, snoop on the enemy, hunt submarines and, crucially, how to use the formidable 220-km range “Klub” cruise missiles to attack targets on land and at sea.

In short, this is the training that will ensure the Vietnamese People’s Navy can inflict heavy losses on a maritime aggressor and even take the fight to the adversary’s home turf. An undersea Viet Cong force that is also an excellent opportunity for India to put some steel into its “Act East” policy.


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/why-india-needs-to-ramp-up-its-token-training-of-vietnamese-submariners.447543/#ixzz4JO2m7Vdd


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## Viet

Policeman and women with Heckler-Koch MP5 rifles

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> ha ha ha... the green tea faction again?


Yup, Department of Green Tea it is


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Yup, Department of Green Tea it is


Oh man the green tea people are tough. Ok how about this news: I read we have begun to modernize T54 tank to T54B by ourselves since upgrade by foreigners is too expensive to afford. How much is the truth in that rumour?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Oh man the green tea people are tough. Ok how about this news: I read we have begun to modernize T54 tank to T54B by ourselves since upgrade by foreigners is too expensive to afford. How much is the truth in that rumour?


Not T-54B, but a modernization program based on the T-55AM variant which reportedly called T-54/55AMV.

Upgrade package includes new FCS with wind sensor and laser rangefinder, thermal sleeve for the main gun, indigenous ERA, new engine to compensate for the additional weight from ERA blocks.

I'm not sure how many tanks will be upgraded this way.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Not T-54B, but a modernization program based on the T-55AM variant which reportedly called T-54/55AMV.
> 
> Upgrade package includes new FCS with wind sensor and laser rangefinder, thermal sleeve for the main gun, indigenous ERA, new engine to compensate for the additional weight from ERA blocks.
> 
> I'm not sure how many tanks will be upgraded this way.


Sounds good. How's about ammo for the main gun? Anything special for example new armor piercing shell?


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> ah you mean that one. got any schedule when the bird makes debut in the south china sea?



Now if they can fit an early detection radar or Brahmos missile on that. Too slow to weaponize. If fitted for Kamikaze it will never make it pass a ships first line of defense. 

If they can triple the range it's perfect for SCS reconnaissance.


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## hoangsa74

TenLua said:


> Now if they can fit an early detection radar or Brahmos missile on that. Too slow to weaponize. If fitted for Kamikaze it will never make it pass a ships first line of defense.
> 
> If they can triple the range it's perfect for SCS reconnaissance.


Mate, it's an rc toy; just look at its wing span and guess how long it can be.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Sounds good. How's about ammo for the main gun? Anything special for example new armor piercing shell?


Nope, it's still the same 100mm main gun with latest ammunition. The upgrade package improves the "first shot, first hit" capability instead of armor penetration.

Also, some maneuver over the SCS.







TenLua said:


> Now if they can fit an early detection radar or Brahmos missile on that. Too slow to weaponize. If fitted for Kamikaze it will never make it pass a ships first line of defense.
> 
> If they can triple the range it's perfect for SCS reconnaissance.


HS-6L is a SIGINT/ELINT UAV. No one would fit a BrahMos onto this UAV ever. Better arm it with light missiles like the MQ-9/Hellfire combination.

Meanwhile the UAV-04 can carry SAR and other stuff.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> HS-06 is a SIGINT/ELINT UAV. No one would fit a BrahMos onto this UAV ever. Better arm it with light missiles like the MQ-9/Hellfire combination.
> 
> Meanwhile the UAV-04 can carry SAR and other stuff.


Hellfire or Spike antitank missile. But the question is would the US administration approve such lethal weapon sale?


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## Aqsuperman

hoangsa74 said:


> Mate, it's an rc toy; just look at its wing span and guess how long it can be.



Its seem you still like to show off to people when you dont know anything eh ? RC toy ? Oh you happen to be on the development board of HS-6L or director of some UAV manufacturing companies ? If so let me ask you about the wing span of the MQ-9. Can you provide some comparison between the wingspan of the VN UAV wingspan and the MQ-9 Reaper ? You seem quite passionate about the wingspan since you use it to decide which is a RC toy right ? Just for your "ultra limited" brain, HS-6L has the wingspan, or sải cánh in Vietnamese, of 22 meters. The MQ-9 UAV only got 20 meters. You can google all of this on the Internet but no, you gotta show off something just for the heck of it. Or we commonly call "ném shit hội nghị". Or if you prefer, we will go deeper and see what are the criteria for you to decide if a machine is a RC toy and not a UAV. Hope its wont turn out like the silly crap you have about the Thailand Armed Forces.

A bit of international news, Philippine president has done it again. President Obama has cancel a meeting with him because Duterte has directly insult his counterpart right before it. I gotta say 1 thing: Is this guy high or something ?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/09/05/world/asia/ap-as-obama.html?_r=0

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> Mate, it's an rc toy; just look at its wing span and guess how long it can be.


22 meters wingspan


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## MacanJawa

Silent Knight said:


> Not T-54B, but a modernization program based on the T-55AM variant which reportedly called T-54/55AMV.
> 
> Upgrade package includes new FCS with wind sensor and laser rangefinder, thermal sleeve for the main gun, indigenous ERA, new engine to compensate for the additional weight from ERA blocks.
> 
> I'm not sure how many tanks will be upgraded this way.



since this old tank upgraded, what about T-90 aquisiton? canceled or delayed? or on track?


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## Silent Knight

MacanJawa said:


> since this old tank upgraded, what about T-90 aquisiton? canceled or delayed? or on track?


On track, maybe they will be revealed in 2017.

The upgrade package for T-54/55 is to maintain a number of capable tanks while slowly building the T-90 force. Much like how the Russian upgrade T-72 to B3 variant instead of going all out on T-90 and Armata T-14.


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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> A bit of international news, Philippine president has done it again. President Obama has cancel a meeting with him because Duterte has directly insult his counterpart right before it. I gotta say 1 thing: Is this guy high or something ?
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/09/05/world/asia/ap-as-obama.html?_r=0



Is there was any chance of USA stopping the chinese from doing land reclamation in Scarborough Shoal, Duterte Harry just blew it big time. Now the chinese will do it for sure.

Another one in the long list of PH screw ups.



Aqsuperman said:


> Its seem you still like to show off to people when you dont know anything eh ? RC toy ? Oh you happen to be on the development board of HS-6L or director of some UAV manufacturing companies ? If so let me ask you about the wing span of the MQ-9. Can you provide some comparison between the wingspan of the VN UAV wingspan and the MQ-9 Reaper ? You seem quite passionate about the wingspan since you use it to decide which is a RC toy right ? Just for your "ultra limited" brain, HS-6L has the wingspan, or sải cánh in Vietnamese, of 22 meters. The MQ-9 UAV only got 20 meters. You can google all of this on the Internet but no, you gotta show off something just for the heck of it. Or we commonly call "ném shit hội nghị". Or if you prefer, we will go deeper and see what are the criteria for you to decide if a machine is a RC toy and not a UAV. Hope its wont turn out like the silly crap you have about the Thailand Armed Forces.
> 
> A bit of international news, Philippine president has done it again. President Obama has cancel a meeting with him because Duterte has directly insult his counterpart right before it. I gotta say 1 thing: Is this guy high or something ?
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/09/05/world/asia/ap-as-obama.html?_r=0



What can you expect from a guy that says that Thailand can win a war against Vietnam any day?



Viet said:


> Hellfire or Spike antitank missile. But the question is would the US administration approve such lethal weapon sale?



No reason why not, Hellfire is not much of a big deal as a missile and Spike is Israeli.



Silent Knight said:


> On track, maybe they will be revealed in 2017.
> 
> The upgrade package for T-54/55 is to maintain a number of capable tanks while slowly building the T-90 force. Much like how the Russian upgrade T-72 to B3 variant instead of going all out on T-90 and Armata T-14.



Cough... You forgot to mention the Vietnamese T-72... cough.... I think they are going to be upgraded soon according to *A VERY RELIABLE RUSSIAN SOURCE, THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT MILITARY EXPORT AUTHORITY *

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Cough... You forgot to mention the Vietnamese T-72... cough.... I think they are going to be upgraded soon according to *A VERY RELIABLE RUSSIAN SOURCE, THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT MILITARY EXPORT AUTHORITY *


Remember, folks, you heard nothing from me. You only heard it from Carlosa, he's responsible for every leaked information about the Vietnamese Armed Forces 



Viet said:


> Hellfire or Spike antitank missile. But the question is would the US administration approve such lethal weapon sale?


Spike, Konkurs, Kornet, Vikhr etc. So many options aside of the Hellfire.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Remember, folks, you heard nothing from me. You only heard it from Carlosa, he's responsible for every leaked information about the Vietnamese Armed Forces .



But of course, don't you know that I love green tea? 

------------------------------------

Talking about tanks, here is a picture from a chinese newspaper of a Vietnamese military officer seating on the turret of an unknown tank. It is not a T-54 / 55 or 62. It appears to be a T-72.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Talking about tanks, here is a picture from a chinese newspaper of a Vietnamese military officer seating on the turret of an unknown tank. It is not a T-54 / 55 or 62. It appears to be a T-72.


Indian T-72. It was taken during a visit of the VPA delegation.

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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> since this old tank upgraded, what about T-90 aquisiton? canceled or delayed? or on track?


We need both. We need large number of tanks. We have China in the northern front that has some 9,000 tanks or more in the inventory. Cambodia and Thailand on the south eastern and eastern front that can field several hundreds tanks. Our goal should be having 2,000 tanks, with 1,000 existing various old tanks upgraded by improved combat capability and 1,000 new battle tanks as T72 and T90. Because of financial constraints it's understandable that can't be done by tomorrow but gradually over several years.

That is what I see by personal observation.


Another topic and under the radar

Welcome to Vietnam!

French president Francois Hollande on a historic state visit to Hanoi. He came from China after attending G20 summit. Many cooperation agreements are signed ranging from economy to defense.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Is there was any chance of USA stopping the chinese from doing land reclamation in Scarborough Shoal, Duterte Harry just blew it big time. Now the chinese will do it for sure.
> 
> Another one in the long list of PH screw ups.
> 
> 
> 
> What can you expect from a guy that says that Thailand can win a war against Vietnam any day?
> 
> 
> 
> No reason why not, Hellfire is not much of a big deal as a missile and Spike is Israeli.
> 
> 
> 
> Cough... You forgot to mention the Vietnamese T-72... cough.... I think they are going to be upgraded soon according to *A VERY RELIABLE RUSSIAN SOURCE, THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT MILITARY EXPORT AUTHORITY *


The thing is although Barack Obama lifts arms embargo, he demands before approval of any arms sale Vietnam improvement on human rights records. So it is difficult to know if hellfire will be approved or not. Same as for Spike missile. It is an Israeli product, but I think will be a no-go if the Obama administration disapproves.

As for the Philippines under Duterte, I don't understand why he does what he does because it is irresponsible and irrational. He makes his country to an incalculable risk.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> The thing is although Barack Obama lifts arms embargo, he demands before approval of any arms sale Vietnam improvement on human rights records. So it is difficult to know if hellfire will be approved or not. Same as for Spike missile. It is an Israeli product, but I think will be a no-go if the Obama administration disapproves..



They are still demanding that?


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## William Hung

Regarding Duerte and the SCS/Scarborough shoal, I think that would be the least concern for the Filipinos. I doubt China will make any provocative move on that shoal soon. The Filipinos should be more concerned about Duerte and his attitude towards law and order and his promotion of extrajudicial killings. I thought he was only supporting it before election to get attention but now he really condones it. That is just crazy, encouraging civilians to kill others without going through the proper legal process. It means he has no regards for law and order. Even if the drug problem is so bad in his country, it just mean that the law enforcement and its legal justice system has failed, which further means that he should be working on that, instead of encouraging extrajudicial killings. Crazy.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> They are still demanding that?


Obama said any sale of arms depends on Vietnam's human rights commitments, and made on a case-by-case basis. the means the US government can deny any arms request by Vietnam.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/23/obam...s-embargo-on-vietnam-sales-on-conditions.html

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Regarding Duerte and the SCS/Scarborough shoal, I think that would be the least concern for the Filipinos. *I doubt China will make any provocative move on that shoal soon*. .



Just wait a few days / weeks.



William Hung said:


> Regarding Duerte and the SCS/Scarborough shoal, I think that would be the least concern for the Filipinos. I doubt China will make any provocative move on that shoal soon. The Filipinos should be more concerned about Duerte and his attitude towards law and order and his promotion of extrajudicial killings. I thought he was only supporting it before election to get attention but now he really condones it. That is just crazy, encouraging civilians to kill others without going through the proper legal process. It means he has no regards for law and order. Even if the drug problem is so bad in his country, it just mean that the law enforcement and its legal justice system has failed, which further means that he should be working on that, instead of encouraging extrajudicial killings. Crazy.



Yes, quite crazy, but his approval rate just shoot up to 91%, so nothing will change.



Viet said:


> Obama said any sale of arms depends on Vietnam's human rights commitments, and made on a case-by-case basis. the means the US government can deny any arms request by Vietnam.
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/23/obam...s-embargo-on-vietnam-sales-on-conditions.html



The geopolitical situation in the region should be priority considering what's going on there.

Well, then VN should buy the P-3s from Japan and maybe go for Gripen E for the light fighter requirement.



Silent Knight said:


> Remember, folks, you heard nothing from me. You only heard it from Carlosa, he's responsible for every leaked information about the Vietnamese Armed Forces .



Do you know if there is any actual *REAL* interest in Gripen E?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Just wait a few days / weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, quite crazy, but his approval rate just shoot up to 91%, so nothing will change.


I just read the news:

Duterte declares the state of emergency over the Philippines. without approval of the parliament, without time limit. the bill gives sweeping powers to the police and armed forces. First, yesterday killing drugs dealers and consumers on public streets, and now terrorists and separatists, tomorrow maybe communists and socialists, after tomorrow the rest. Crazy at best. we can forget to count the Philippines as ally in the South China sea.

no wonder Chinese applaud Duterte for his stance because he leads the country into abyss.

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## William Hung

Hollande wants FREMM frigate deals with Vietnam


French president on state visit to Hanoi calls for increased cooperation, peaceful solution to South China Sea dispute

World Bulletin / News Desk

France's president has called for increased defense cooperation between his country and Vietnam during a state visit to Hanoi on Tuesday. 

Without going into specific arrangements, Francois Hollande called for France to help bolster Vietnam’s military capabilities for the purposes of international peacekeeping operations during a speech at Vietnam National University.

Hollande also reaffirmed France’s position that the South China Sea dispute, which involves overlapping maritime claims between China, Vietnam and several others, should be resolved peacefully.
France, which was Vietnam’s colonial master until it was defeated by local communist forces in 1954, has grown closer to Vietnam in recent years as Hanoi seeks to build bridges with its former foes.
The last visit from a French head of state to Vietnam was in 2004 when President Jacques Chirac made a trip.

France has emerged as one of the European Union's primary proponents of increased naval patrols in the South China Sea in response to China’s claim to most of the waters.

Speaking last June at the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian urged EU countries to step up naval patrols in waters claimed by China but recognized as international under United Nations conventions.

"If we want to contain the risk of conflict, we must defend this right, and defend it ourselves," said Le Drian.


http://www.worldbulletin.net/todays-news/177072/hollande-wants-further-defense-deals-with-vietnam



Carlosa said:


> Just wait a few days / weeks.



I somehow doubt that will happen. Well, if the Chinese leaders have any common sense, they would know now would be a good time to woo Duterte. But given all their previous diplomatic blunders, I wouldn’t be surprised if they somehow screw up again, so maybe you are right.




> Yes, quite crazy, but his approval rate just shoot up to 91%, so nothing will change.



Thats what I meant, the Filipinos should be worried about the direction that their country is heading towards. When a ruler act above the law, he is a dictator...when a ruler encourages others to act above the law, then he is just insane. Its like he wants an anarchy state, with no regards to any judicial system.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> Obama said any sale of arms depends on Vietnam's human rights commitments, and made on a case-by-case basis. the means the US government can deny any arms request by Vietnam.
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/23/obam...s-embargo-on-vietnam-sales-on-conditions.html



yup, that is how the American works. VCP still got a lot of work ahead.


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## William Hung

vtnsx said:


> yup, that is how the American works. VCP still got a lot of work ahead.



A lot of Cali Viets also said that about the arms embargo..........before the Obama admin lifted it.


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## vtnsx

William Hung said:


> A lot of Cali Viets also said that about the arms embargo..........before the Obama admin lifted it.



Yup, can't give the right weapon to the wrong person when that person doesn't represent the country but himself.


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## William Hung

vtnsx said:


> Yup, can't give the right weapon to the wrong person when that person doesn't represent the country but himself.



Alot of Caliviet also said the US won’t lift the arms embargo....but the Obama admin did.


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## Silent Knight

In case you guys wonder, the lifting of arms embargo means Vietnam can buy weapons from US allies, not just the US themselves.

Long before this lift, Israel has sold several modern weapon systems to Vietnam. Excluding the similarity and close relation between two countries, I doubt the US would let it slip under their noses.


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## vtnsx

William Hung said:


> Alot of Caliviet also said the US won’t lift the arms embargo....but the Obama admin did.



Lifting ban is only the first step. Selling the weapon is another. Americans aren't that naive. Of course, they learnt it the hard way with the middle eastern countries. Americans are in for their best interest.


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> yup, that is how the American works. VCP still got a lot of work ahead.


The US wants to maintain leverage over Vietnam. That is how politics works. Clever.


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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Its seem you still like to show off to people when you dont know anything eh ? RC toy ? Oh you happen to be on the development board of HS-6L or director of some UAV manufacturing companies ? If so let me ask you about the wing span of the MQ-9. Can you provide some comparison between the wingspan of the VN UAV wingspan and the MQ-9 Reaper ? You seem quite passionate about the wingspan since you use it to decide which is a RC toy right ? Just for your "ultra limited" brain, HS-6L has the wingspan, or sải cánh in Vietnamese, of 22 meters. The MQ-9 UAV only got 20 meters. You can google all of this on the Internet but no, you gotta show off something just for the heck of it. Or we commonly call "ném shit hội nghị". Or if you prefer, we will go deeper and see what are the criteria for you to decide if a machine is a RC toy and not a UAV. Hope its wont turn out like the silly crap you have about the Thailand Armed Forces.
> 
> A bit of international news, Philippine president has done it again. President Obama has cancel a meeting with him because Duterte has directly insult his counterpart right before it. I gotta say 1 thing: Is this guy high or something ?
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/09/05/world/asia/ap-as-obama.html?_r=0


Mate, it's not about 22 meters or 20 meters. The thing is that the "uav" shown in the pic and the claimed 22 meters thrown out by your political commissar looks like a 5-meter wingspan to be more realistic.

Now look at the front wheel and the two back wheels and count how many pieces of floor tiles in between them? About 5 pieces of floor tiles. One floor tile is about 1 feet so from the front wheel to the back wheels of the uav is 5 feet; if we give it 3 feet from the back wheels to the end of the tail another 3 feet than the length of the uav from the front wheel to the tail is about 8 feet.

Now let's say that the wing span is twice the length of the uav then then wing span is 16 feet in all. 16 feet is even less than 5 meters my friend; not the b.s claim of 22 meters (or 72 feet). Is there any 5-meter wing span "uav" out there that flies that far, fast, and high like the uav in the pic that vn claims? LOL


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> In case you guys wonder, the lifting of arms embargo means Vietnam can buy weapons from US allies, not just the US themselves.
> 
> Long before this lift, Israel has sold several modern weapon systems to Vietnam. Excluding the similarity and close relation between two countries, I doubt the US would let it slip under their noses.



Its news to me that USA would care for human rights if their geopolitical / commercial interest goes in the opposite direction and there are dozens of cases to prove it including the strong support for dozens of bloody dictators like Suharto in Indonesia, etc, etc and lets no even talk about the middle east and the human rights in Saudi Arabia and the other wahabi lookalikes or supporting and arming so called "moderate" beheaders in Syria.

Compared to Saudi Arabia, Vietnam is a human rights paradise, but I don't see restrictions in arm sales to Saudi Arabia.

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> 22 meters wingspan


I can tell that is an impossibility if you look closely at the uav in the pic



William Hung said:


> Alot of Caliviet also said the US won’t lift the arms embargo....but the Obama admin did.


Lifting is one thing; what type of weapons the U.S sells is another. What kind of export version the U.S sells to Vietnam is another consideration; is the export version a super downgraded version, lightly downgraded, or closely resemble the domestic version? Just look at the F-35 EXPORT versions, not all American's allies are getting the same; the U.K and Australia get the best version that closely resemble the domestic version of the U.S, while the rest get lesser advanced version than the British and Australian.

As for Vietnam, the U.S can't risk giving away technologies that Vietnam can give it right back to china for inspection. Can't trust a swinger to be more blunt.


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> Its news to me that USA would care for human rights if their geopolitical / commercial interest goes in the opposite direction and there are dozens of cases to prove it including the strong support for dozens of bloody dictators like Suharto in Indonesia, etc, etc and lets no even talk about the middle east and the human rights in Saudi Arabia and the other wahabi lookalikes or supporting and arming so called "moderate" beheaders in Syria.
> 
> Compared to Saudi Arabia, Vietnam is a human rights paradise, but I don't see restrictions in arm sales to Saudi Arabia.


that tells u the u.s trust the bloody arab terrorists than trusting a swinger like vietnam who can give away u.s tech to china n russia for inspection. Vn has no one to blame except itself for not having a firm stand International politics


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Is there was any chance of USA stopping the chinese from doing land reclamation in Scarborough Shoal, Duterte Harry just blew it big time. Now the chinese will do it for sure.
> 
> Another one in the long list of PH screw ups.



Do the Philippines have the defence pact with US like SK, Japan and Australia hold ? If not, then why blaming US? US not legally bound to protect Philippines.

If Philippines want to live in cookoo land, thats there problem. Not of US or Japan or of Australia.

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Compared to Saudi Arabia, Vietnam is a human rights paradise, but I don't see restrictions in arm sales to Saudi Arabia.


Time will tell, but I doubt the US military-industry would pass a multi billions dollar market.

And clearly our butthurt RVN boy (you know who) haven't heard of scale model. That's why our boy is trying to bite things he knows nothing about. Keep licking your master's *** and hoping he'll give you some airsoft guns for "parade", while we enjoy our indigenous weapon systems =))



Farhan Bohra said:


> Do the Philippines have the defence pact with US like SK, Japan and Australia hold with US? If not, then why blaming US? US not legally bound to protect Philippines.
> 
> If Philippines want to live in cookoo land, thats there problem. Not of US or Japan or of Australia.


They have a mutual defense treaty since 1952 or 1953. But as far as I remember, it only covers the mainlands and excludes any islands and reefs in SCS.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Is there was any chance of USA stopping the chinese from doing land reclamation in Scarborough Shoal, Duterte Harry just blew it big time. Now the chinese will do it for sure.
> 
> Another one in the long list of PH screw ups.


And frankly speaking, nobody give a shit about Philippines. Maybe in ASEAN or South Korea. 
In geopolitics of Russia, India, Japan and Australia , Philippines not even in dictionary. 

For sake of argument, If the China done so this with Vietnam. I can tell you situation would be pretty different, actually totally different.



Silent Knight said:


> They have a mutual defense treaty since 1952 or 1953. But as far as I remember, it only covers the mainlands and excludes any islands and reefs in SCS.



I can tell you that was only limited to counter terrorism, 

About Coalition of Willing, Philippines (even after signing 2014 agreement) still not reached the level of interoperability and joint combat missions.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> And frankly speaking, nobody give a shit about Philippines. Maybe in ASEAN or South Korea.
> In geopolitics of Russia, India, Japan and Australia , Philippines not even in dictionary.
> 
> For sake of argument, If the China done so this with Vietnam. I can tell you situation would be pretty different, actually totally different.
> 
> I can tell you that was only limited to counter terrorism,
> 
> About Coalition of Willing, Philippines (even after signing 2014 agreement) still not reached the level of interoperability and joint combat missions.


That's not surprising, given that the Philippines Armed Forces are only capable of fighting the rebels and they couldn't even do a decent job with that task. But well, Philippines is the idol for some Vietnamese people as they always have a big mouth toward China, instead of subtly and silently confronting the Chinese vessels on the SCS.

Anyway, during the visit to Vietnam of president Hollande, no military agreement was publicized. However, he reportedly mentioned about the "FREMM" multi-purpose frigate, not sure how it would materialize in the future though.

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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> . But well, Philippines is the idol for some Vietnamese people as they always have a big mouth toward China, instead of subtly and silently confronting the Chinese vessels on the SCS.



Filipinos are not diplomatic genius. They doing disaster after disaster. 

They still not understanding the gunboat diplomacy. How they even allow the Chinese on Shoal. Didnt they know Chinese were preparing what? 
How they accepted defeat without even firing a bullet. 

I dont blame US, if Philippines ready to giveaway its territory, then what US do? Afterall Scarborough Shoal is not sovereign territory of US.

Little bit offtopic, Want to share something interesting (for sake of history), I dont know when in future history repeat itself. If Indonesia tilted toward China then that is more likely. 


> Admiral Soman recalls:
> 
> After the Indo-Chinese conflict (in 1962), the defence of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands was left entirely to me. The Army refused to send even a platoon there and we had to raise our own land force with sailors in khaki uniform to man the various stations in these islands. So far as the Navy was concerned, as soon as Pakistan started the trouble in Kutch, I had felt that my first priority would be these Islands because while talking to various people during my visit to Indonesia as the Fleet Commander a few years earlier, and having been briefed on the developments since then, *I felt a little nervous about these islands. This was because when the Army refused to send any units for their self-defence*, I had taken on the responsibility of doing so with sailors with no experience in land fighting. But I had also
> placed MYSORE and two major ships in the area till the very last minute. It was only after the war had started and I was permitted to bring the Fleet back to the West Coast that I brought the ships across the Western theatre because I wanted to ensure that no opportunity was given to Indonesia to start anything at the same time. Whether eventually it proved itself I do not know but prior to that*Soekarrno (Indonesia&#8217;s then President) was reported to have been keeping an eye on the Bay islands.* *I was quite convinced in my mind that the Indonesian navy, knowing fully well that only a small force of sailors in khaki uniform was present on these islands, could make an attempt to capture the Nicobar island despite the then pretty poor state of Indonesia's navy".*
> 
> Was there really a threat from Indonesia? The answer can be found in the memoirs of Pakistani Air Marshall Ashgar Khan (the chief of Pakistani Air Force during the Rann of Kutch incident), recounting the conversations between Soekarno and his naval chief Admiral Martadinata:
> 
> *President Soekarno said that India's attack on Pakistan was like an attack on Indonesia* and they were duty bound to give Pakistan all possible assistance. President Soekarno told him to take away whatever would be useful to Pakistan in this emergency. Two Russian supplied submarines and two Russian supplied missile boats were sent to Pakistan post haste.
> 
> Admiral Martadinata asked Air Marshall Asghar Khan "*Don't you want us to take over the Andaman Islands? A look at the map will show that the Andaman and Nicobar islands are an extension of Sumatra and are in any case between East Pakistan and Indonesia. What rights have the Indians to be there? In any case, the Indonesian Navy will immediately commence patrols on the approaches to these islands and carry out the aerial reconnaissance missions to see what Indians have"*.
> 
> In hindsight, thus, it would appear that the concern voiced by Admiral Soman about the security of Andaman and Nicobar islands was not entirely unfounded.


https://books.google.co.in/books?id...Evolution of India's Look-east Policy&f=false

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> And frankly speaking, nobody give a shit about
> Philippines. .



I agree, my concern is not for the sake of the Philippines, but because the chinese keep taking over the SCS and that Filipino reef will become a chinese base.



Silent Knight said:


> That's not surprising, given that the Philippines Armed Forces are only capable of fighting the rebels and they couldn't even do a decent job with that task. But well, Philippines is the idol for some Vietnamese people as they always have a big mouth toward China, instead of subtly and silently confronting the Chinese vessels on the SCS..



Its really difficult to imagine a country with a higher degree of military incompetence than Philippines. They win the trophy on that one.



Silent Knight said:


> Anyway, during the visit to Vietnam of president Hollande, no military agreement was publicized. However, he reportedly mentioned about the "FREMM" multi-purpose frigate, not sure how it would materialize in the future though.



I don't give much chance to the "FREMM" multi-purpose frigate, I would be very surprise if it gets selected.

It seems like the Sigma 10514 will be the next one to be selected.


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## hoangsa74

Silent Knight said:


> Time will tell, but I doubt the US military-industry would pass a multi billions dollar market.
> 
> And clearly our butthurt RVN boy (you know who) haven't heard of scale model. That's why our boy is trying to bite things he knows nothing about. Keep licking your master's *** and hoping he'll give you some airsoft guns for "parade", while we enjoy our indigenous weapon systems =))
> 
> 
> They have a mutual defense treaty since 1952 or 1953. But as far as I remember, it only covers the mainlands and excludes any islands and reefs in SCS.


Nice cumback son. After i expose your rc toy u have nothing to counter other than claiming that it is a scale model. First u claim that pos is a hale. Now u claim that it is a scale model after i expose u. What's next?. Indigenous? Lol


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## Shotgunner51

Report received, thread locked temporarily for checking, sorry for inconvenience.

Edit: Checked, now re-open, please be reminded, refrain from personal insult, thanks!


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Mate, it's an rc toy; just look at its wing span and guess how long it can be.


All UAVs are not RC controlled Vehicle?
Can you tell me which UAV you invented which work without Radio waves. The thing is about encryption algorithms.

Or maybe you are that genius who invented a UAV on quantum entanglement?







Fuk, that also look like RC toy, see long wingspan. Maybe that is indeed RC toy.



TenLua said:


> Now if they can fit an early detection radar or Brahmos missile on that. Too slow to weaponize. If fitted for Kamikaze it will never make it pass a ships first line of defense.
> 
> If they can triple the range it's perfect for SCS reconnaissance.


That is UAV, not UCAV.

The likely payload will be EL/M-2060 P, ELINT, Maritime Radar, EO Pod etc etc

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Little bit offtopic, Want to share something interesting (for sake of history), I dont know when in future history repeat itself. If Indonesia tilted toward China then that is more likely.
> 
> https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DpJk1Ecg9RAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Rediscovering+Asia:+Evolution+of+India's+Look-east+Policy&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqhaPlq_vOAhUEqo8KHakSCPAQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=Rediscovering Asia: Evolution of India's Look-east Policy&f=false



I had read that in the past; anything is possible, after all, the Indonesians gave one Yakhont missile to the chinese in order for them to copy it. Done once, can do it again.

I don't think it would be a good idea for India to sell Brahmos to Indonesia,


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## TenLua

hoangsa74 said:


> Nice cumback son. After i expose your rc toy u have nothing to counter other than claiming that it is a scale model. First u claim that pos is a hale. Now u claim that it is a scale model after i expose u. What's next?. Indigenous? Lol



If there was ever a nation that can win a modern war with RC planes, it's Vietnam.

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## initial_d

Carlosa said:


> I had read that in the past; anything is possible, after all, the Indonesians gave one Yakhont missile to the chinese in order for them to copy it. Done once, can do it again.
> 
> I don't think it would be a good idea for India to sell Brahmos to Indonesia,


Lol....what are you talking About, we never give anything For the Chinese, especially yakhont missile lol....btw, Indonesia is not interested in Brahmos or any Indian Made weapons

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## Silent Knight

France might propose the FREMM frigate during Hollande's visit. However, do take my information with a grain of salt, as rumor is rumor


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## MacanJawa

Carlosa said:


> I had read that in the past; anything is possible, after all, the Indonesians gave one Yakhont missile to the chinese in order for them to copy it. Done once, can do it again.
> 
> I don't think it would be a good idea for India to sell Brahmos to Indonesia,


funny, where you get information indonesia give chinese yakhont? are you high?

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> France might propose the FREMM frigate during Hollande's visit. However, do take my information with a grain of salt, as rumor is rumor


Much better than Sigma. Fremm would be a dream comes true if we can grab it. 140m long, 20m wide, 6,000 tons, can be configured for different missions. France and Italy build the ship as submarine hunter and land attacker. The Italian version is heavier: 6,900 tons. We would build it as air defense destroyer. The question is the price tag, transfer of technology and if we can build some ships in Vietnam.

The French seem seriously wanting to step in the troubled waters. They previously proposed joint European patrols. Not necessary bad. The more guests the better the party

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## William Hung

hoangsa74 said:


> I can tell that is an impossibility if you look closely at the uav in the pic
> 
> 
> Lifting is one thing; what type of weapons the U.S sells is another. What kind of export version the U.S sells to Vietnam is another consideration; is the export version a super downgraded version, lightly downgraded, or closely resemble the domestic version? Just look at the F-35 EXPORT versions, not all American's allies are getting the same; the U.K and Australia get the best version that closely resemble the domestic version of the U.S, while the rest get lesser advanced version than the British and Australian.
> 
> As for Vietnam, the U.S can't risk giving away technologies that Vietnam can give it right back to china for inspection. Can't trust a swinger to be more blunt.



My point was not about what kind of stuff the US would sell. My point was that I used to hear a lot of Caliviet saying the US would not lift the arms embargo because of reason x, y, z...similar to the reasons you and vtnsx described...but the Obama admin did lift it, contrary to the predictions and rationale given.



Carlosa said:


> I don't give much chance to the "FREMM" multi-purpose frigate, I would be very surprise if it gets selected.
> 
> It seems like the Sigma 10514 will be the next one to be selected.



And how you’d know Sigma 10514 would be more likely selected next?

Sigma even has less of a chance than FREMM, namely the Dutch govt wasn’t willing to back a loan/credit line for the Viet Sigma plan, no matter how hard Damen tried to lobby the Dutch govt. On the other hand, with Hollande....


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Do the Philippines have the defence pact with US like SK, Japan and Australia hold ? If not, then why blaming US? US not legally bound to protect Philippines.
> 
> If Philippines want to live in cookoo land, thats there problem. Not of US or Japan or of Australia.


PN has defense treaty with America but with no navy no airforce no air defense no nothing except troops more or less capable to fight against terrorism and separatism, the country fully relies on US boys to defend the territory,

It's really hard to understand.


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## William Hung

Farhan Bohra said:


> And frankly speaking, nobody give a shit about Philippines. Maybe in ASEAN or South Korea.
> In geopolitics of Russia, India, Japan and Australia , Philippines not even in dictionary.
> 
> For sake of argument, If the China done so this with Vietnam. I can tell you situation would be pretty different, actually totally different.
> 
> 
> 
> I can tell you that was only limited to counter terrorism,
> 
> About Coalition of Willing, Philippines (even after signing 2014 agreement) still not reached the level of interoperability and joint combat missions.



No need to bash the Philippines on those issues. In terms of foreign relation with VN, they are still on good terms and have shown no hostility against VN. I am only concerned about their internal issue...their law enforcement has previously proven incompetent to deal with drug issue and related street crimes. And to deal with that incompetency, Duterte decided to give the incompetent law enforcement...extrajudicial power! That’s just crazy. Incompetency + extrajudicial power is a recipede for disaster. It’s just short-sightedness on their part for supporting such absurdity.


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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> No need to bash the Philippines on those issues. In terms of foreign relation with VN, *they are still on good terms and have shown no hostility against VN*.


On diplomatic channels, it's true.

On the field is quite different however.


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## Carlosa

initial_d said:


> Lol....what are you talking About, we never give anything For the Chinese, especially yakhont missile lol....btw, Indonesia is not interested in Brahmos or any Indian Made weapons



Yes, they did, not because they wanted but because the chinese blackmailed them, the chinese refused to give the tot of the antiship missile that they sold to Indonesia even that they were supposed to, but kept delaying until Indonesia agreed to give them one copy of the Yakhont. This is well know, but its not official of course, but is what the Russians think. Only 3 countries have the Yakhont other than Russia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Syria. When China came up with the copy of it, Russia knew that one of those had to do it and it wasn't Vietnam or Syria. At least this is what the Russians believe.



Viet said:


> Much better than Sigma. Fremm would be a dream comes true if we can grab it. 140m long, 20m wide, 6,000 tons, can be configured for different missions. France and Italy build the ship as submarine hunter and land attacker. The Italian version is heavier: 6,900 tons. We would build it as air defense destroyer. The question is the price tag, transfer of technology and if we can build some ships in Vietnam.
> 
> The French seem seriously wanting to step in the troubled waters. They previously proposed joint European patrols. Not necessary bad. The more guests the better the party



Its good, but I think its too expensive for Vietnam.


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## initial_d

Carlosa said:


> Yes, they did, not develophey wanted but because the chinese blackmailed them, the chinese refused to give the tot of the antiship missile that they sold to Indonesia even that they were supposed to, but kept delaying until Indonesia agreed to give them one copy of the Yakhont. This is well know, but its not official of course, but is what the Russians think. Only 3 countries have the Yakhont other than Russia, Vietnam, Indonesia and Syria. When China came up with the copy of it, Russia knew that one of those had to do it and it wasn't Vietnam or Syria. At least this is what the Russians believe.
> 
> 
> 
> Its good, but I think its too expensive for Vietnam.


Errrr rite its a hear say without A proof, first of all indonesian developed our own ASHM missile based on our own RX technologies. We only purchase several Chinese Made ashm For fast attack boat only, and i think the tot between China and us has become sour, there were no news About it since, its baseless if the russian say we sell yakhont to China.


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## Viet

*Hollande says France and Vietnam have ‘overcome’ difficult past*








© Stephane de Sakutin, AFP | French President Francois Hollande (L) and Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang attend a signing ceremony at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi on September 6, 2016.

Text by  FRANCE 24 
Latest update : 2016-09-06

President François Hollande on Tuesday declared that France and Vietnam had “overcome” their conflictive past during a historic visit to the Southeast Asian country, which was marked by lucrative deals for French aviation giant Airbus.


*



*


*



*


Speaking to French expatriates in the Vietnamese commercial hub of Ho Chi Minh City, Hollande once again acknowledged that the two countries shared a “tumultuous past”, but insisted they now enjoyed a new era of robust diplomatic and commercial ties.

“Hollande stressed that France has a very special role to play here in Vietnam. It’s about culture, it’s about preserving an identity and defending certain values,” said France 24 correspondent Clovis Casali from Ho Chi Minh City.

France fought Viet Minh fighters between 1946 and 1954, before being forced out of its former colony by the armed insurgency. Vietnam’s national holiday on September 2 commemorates its declaration of independence from France.

Hollande is only the third French president to visit Vietnam since independence, and the first in 12 years. “He stressed the need to strike a new partnership with Vietnam, especially on the economic level,” Casali added.

Hollande said the "very important deals" in the aviation industry deepened ties with Vietnam, where France's legacy remains ubiquitous – from the country's colonial-era buildings to French-influenced cuisine.

The French president was also expected to meet with French entrepreneurs in Ho Chi Minh City, including some from Vietnam's burgeoning tech sector.

*Big planes for a growing economy*

Earlier, as Hollande met his counterpart Tran Dai Quang in the capital of Hanoi, Vietnam airlines announced it had bought 40 jets worth $6.5 billion from France's Airbus.

The deal is the latest move by Vietnamese aviation firms to boost fleets and feed demand from a mushrooming middle class with money to burn on air travel both at home and abroad.


Low-cost private airline VietJet, famous for its bikini-clad hostesses, also bought 20 planes for a total of $2.39 billion.

Another regional budget carrier, Jetstar Pacific, also bought 10 airplanes, according to an Airbus Asia spokesman.

The three carriers are making a major move into the lucrative Southeast Asian aviation sector.

With a GDP growth rate of 6.7 percent last year, an ever-increasing chunk of Vietnam's 90 million people have spending power that airline and other industries are keen to tap.

*Maritime disputes*

Hollande also spoke to President Quang about maritime freedom, a key issue for Hanoi, which is locked in an increasingly testy bitter row with Beijing over competing claims in the South China Sea.

"The president and I committed to respect the rule of law in the seas and oceans, reaffirming the commitment to maintain freedom of maritime and aviation," Quang said.

"The two sides stressed the importance of solving disputes by peaceful means, not to use or threaten to use violence on the basis of international laws."

A UN-backed tribunal ruled in July that China's claims to almost all of the South China Sea had no legal basis and that its construction of artificial islands in disputed waters was illegal.

Ahead of his visit, Hollande was urged by activists to raise the issue of human rights with authorities in tightly controlled Vietnam, where bloggers and dissidents are routinely jailed for criticising the regime.

But rights are not on the official agenda for what is slated as a trade visit.


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## Aqsuperman

Pfff as a expect, another load of crap. Not that i expect anything else from US Shamecum anyway

I read though the first half of your argument and its seem plausible enough, but then this.



hoangsa74 said:


> Now let's say that the wing span is twice the length of the uav



LOL LOL LOL Are you high on drug or something ? Sure there are UAV that has dimensions around that such as the MQ-1 Reaper with the length of 8 meters and the wingspan of 14.8 meters. But then there is UAV like RQ-4 Global Hawk with the wingspan that nearly 3 times the length so that assumption about " Wingspan is twice the length" smell very cummy. 

You are like "1+1 = 2, 2+2 = 4 and therefore the Earth is flat". Sound really stupid if not utterly retarded. Symptoms of a person that got his head hit the ground extremely hard after being kicked off from a helicopter by an American. 

And you seem doubtful of the UAV wingspan ? Then take a guess of this UAV wingspan and you will see that such angle cannot be used to determine precisely a object. Much easier if you assume every square is 1 feet long though :v 







And the assumption that those bricks that made up the floor is "1 feet long" is another point that very cummy. Since 30 x 30 and 20 x 20 bricks are mostly used in household while large open space for demonstrating purpose use much larger size bricks which usually fall into 40 x 40 to say the least. 

Now its possible that the machine that in the clip is only a model to fit the space but its wingspan will never be a 5m in any way, so now lets check the clip below.






Look carefully at 1 : 01. I see at least 10 visible bricks under the right wings, maybe a lot of more since the pillar is blocking the view. In the worst case that this is also the true size of the the UAV, its still offer more than 10 meter of wingspan. And with the using of Rotax power plant, covering 4,000 km without having to carry any weapons is a feasible task. 

You are not exposing anyone, you just pretend to be sophisticated while weasel your way through any questions that seem too high for your knowledge, that is it, plain and simple.

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## Carlosa

initial_d said:


> Errrr rite its a hear say without A proof, first of all indonesian developed our own ASHM missile based on our own RX technologies. We only purchase several Chinese Made ashm For fast attack boat only, and i think the tot between China and us has become sour, there were no news About it since, its baseless if the russian say we sell yakhont to China.



What I had read is that the tot issue was resolved. Yes, this is a rumor, but this is what the Russians think, somebody gave a copy of the missile to China according to them and they feel is Indonesia under chinese pressure. Even if the Russians were to have proof, they are not going to come out in public with this and make Indonesia lose face, but this is what they think. I had mentioned this one time to madokafc and she didn't say a word, that tells me that she probably knows something about it, but I'm not sure.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its good, but I think its too expensive for Vietnam.


the french should copy the japanese: put it in an envelope called ODA 

remembering the old colonial days. François Hollande tours the Hanoi Old Quarter.

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## Carlosa

initial_d said:


> Nope, the tot of Chinese c705 stil cold, there still no news we produce it.
> Btw, Madoka is A civillian, if you want to know For sure ask some of senior member at Kaskus Military forum, lots of the lad there Work For the Military, DoD and arms and defense FIRM in indonesia



Ok man, I certainly don't have direct knowledge of this, I can only tell you what the Russians think. I have no way to know if this is true or not, but I would not be surprised at all of the chinese trying something like this since they are know to be very tricky in these matters and they do all they can to steal tech from other countries. I would want to think that Indonesia didn't give in to them, but I just don't know, this is just what the Russians think. That's all.



William Hung said:


> And how you’d know Sigma 10514 would be more likely selected next?
> 
> Sigma even has less of a chance than FREMM, namely the Dutch govt wasn’t willing to back a loan/credit line for the Viet Sigma plan, no matter how hard Damen tried to lobby the Dutch govt. On the other hand, with Hollande....



I only know rumors, same as you. What would be the reason why the FREMM has a better chance other than the loans? Loans help, but the ship is also quite expensive and that makes a big difference also.

I think the FREMM is too big and too expensive for VN's needs and having only 16 air defense missiles in the French version is clearly not enough, it would it have to be customised for Vietnam. I don't know, but I think Vietnam needs smaller ships.


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## Viet

we can dream a bit, can´t we? 

since our defence budget is thin, I think we could start with 3 Fremm destroyers, that would serve as the shield of our three fleets: north, center and south fleet.

Every fleet has 4 x TT400 gunships, 4 x Molynia guided missile corvettes, 2 x Gepard guided missile frigates (with 1 heli aboard each), 1 x Fremm air defence destroyer (with 1 heli aboard) and 2 x Kilo attack submarines. several replenishment vessels and tug boats accompany the group.

to reduce the cost of future destroyers as much as possible, we should use Vietnam made components wherever possible. including trying to build the ships we need at home. the latest picture of Vietnam made antiship missile Kct15. The missile warhead can blow up enemy warship up to 5,000 tons tonnage with a single hit. flying 4m over the sea surface en route to target, range 130 km.

there are reports with newer missile range 300 km. waiting for someone posting pictures 

Kct15 AShM

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> we can dream a bit, can´t we?
> 
> since I think we could start with 3 Fremm destroyers, that would serve as the shield of our three fleets: north, center and south fleet.
> 
> Every fleet has 4 x TT400 gunships, 4 x Molynia guided missile corvettes, 2 x Gepard guided missile frigates (with 1 heli aboard each), 1 x Fremm air defence destroyer (with 1 heli aboard) and 2 x Kilo attack submarines. several replenishment vessels and tug boats accompany the group.
> 
> to reduce the cost of future destroyers as much as possible, we should use Vietnam made components wherever possible. including trying to build the ships we need at home. the latest picture of Vietnam made antiship missile Kct15. The missile warhead can blow up enemy warship up to 5,000 tons tonnage with a single hit. flying 4m over the sea surface en route to target, range 130 km.
> 
> there are reports with newer missile range 300 km. waiting for someone posting pictures
> 
> Kct15 AShM



If that's the case, those FREMM "destroyers" better have no less than 32 air defense missiles, otherwise they can't protect anything.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> If that's the case, those FREMM "destroyers" better have no less than 32 air defense missiles, otherwise they can't protect anything.


yes, 32 is minimum.


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## Silent Knight

Well, if it is true then FREMM would be put against De Zeven Provicien class for fleet air defense role, not the SIGMA.

The SIGMA is rumored to be 10514 variant instead of 9814 as originally revealed.

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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Well, if it is true then FREMM would be put against De Zeven Provicien class for fleet air defense role, not the SIGMA.
> 
> The SIGMA is rumored to be 10514 variant instead of 9814 as originally revealed.


Well, well if that happened, and Vietnam rolled out a tender for 6000-7000 tonne frigate , then GRSE indeed going to participate with P-17 A.

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## Silent Knight

@Farhan Bohra 

You have any idea about what kind of OPV we could buy with 100 million USD? I heard the 100m credit from India has been changed from purchasing several high-speed patrol boats to offshore patrol vessels.


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> @Farhan Bohra
> 
> You have any idea about what kind of OPV we could buy with 100 million USD? I heard the 100m credit from India has been changed from purchasing several high-speed patrol boats to offshore patrol vessels.


Yup 










APOV is more for SAR, patrolling EEZ and Relief Disaster missions.

But I dont think till now Vietnam ordered anything with $100 mn LoC, there are rumors that Vietnam ordered fast patrol boats like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_Abbakka-class_patrol_vessel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aadesh-class_patrol_vessel

But I dont think Vietnam Navy ordered anything till now, maybe they are confused.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> But I dont think till now Vietnam ordered anything with $100 mn LoC, there are rumors that Vietnam ordered fast patrol boats like this
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_Abbakka-class_patrol_vessel
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aadesh-class_patrol_vessel
> 
> But I dont think Vietnam Navy ordered anything till now, maybe they are confused.


Yup, not for the Navy, that fund was for the Coast Guard. And it was originally destined for fast patrol boats.

We're looking for a 1000-ton patrol/OPV, as Vietnam can build small patrol boats (TT-120, TT-200, TT-400 class) and large OPV (DN-2000 and DN-4000 class) locally. The gap lies in medium displacement vessels, we only have a single 1500-ton patrol boat (CSB-8003) that was transferred from the Korean Coast Guard.

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## Viet

From a boat refugee to Lieutenant Colonel Tuan T. Ton

served as a classical Infantryman, a Platoon leader

He is Military Advisor to Bureau of East Asian and Pacific Affairs (EAP), US Department of State. In this capacity, he is responsible for a wide range of political-military affairs including State defense interface, defense policy issues, security cooperation, foreign military assistance, license for export of defense military items.

E.i. he would be one of the members that give recommendation to the US government, should Vietnam want to acquire any lethal US made military toys

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam to send more troops to Sudan for UN commitments. A level 2 ( i dont know what it is though :v ) field medic team with more than 50 personnel.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Yup, not for the Navy, that fund was for the Coast Guard. And it was originally destined for fast patrol boats.
> 
> We're looking for a 1000-ton patrol/OPV, as Vietnam can build small patrol boats (TT-120, TT-200, TT-400 class) and large OPV (DN-2000 and DN-4000 class) locally. The gap lies in medium displacement vessels, we only have a single 1500-ton patrol boat (CSB-8003) that was transferred from the Korean Coast Guard.



Why is it so difficult for Vietnam to make a 1000 ton patrol ship? I'm sure the capability to build it is there, so the issue is the design of the ship? Can't scale up the design of the TT-400TP or the Molniya?



Farhan Bohra said:


> Well, well if that happened, and Vietnam rolled out a tender for 6000-7000 tonne frigate , then GRSE indeed going to participate with P-17 A.



If Vietnam goes for a 6000-7000 ton frigate, then I think India can supply a great ship with MF/STAR, Barak 8 and Brahmos and cheaper than everybody else. I'd like to see that.

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## Viet

Drinking tea with Philippines' President Rodrigo Duterte on the sidelines of the ASEAN summit in Laos 

as act of courtesy to a new leader of a country, Vietnam invites him to visit whenever he likes. Surprisingly he accepts it and plans to visit Vietnam between the end of the year or early next year. I think it is best for all not to mention anything domestic related to the Philippines. who knows how Duterte will react

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## Viet

Starting as private toys, built by private men, with private money, now the mini submarines receive approval of the authority to conduct sea trials. the goal is to make the subs be capable to dive 200 m deep, reaching operation radius of 500 miles, doing covert recon missions. Before anyone here begins to laugh, going down a long road begins with the first step.


Hoàng Sa mini sub












Trường Sa minisub

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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Why is it so difficult for Vietnam to make a 1000 ton patrol ship? I'm sure the capability to build it is there, so the issue is the design of the ship? Can't scale up the design of the TT-400TP or the Molniya?
> If Vietnam goes for a 6000-7000 ton frigate, then I think India can supply a great ship with MF/STAR, Barak 8 and Brahmos and cheaper than everybody else. I'd like to see that.


scale up the design seem not easy because it may affect the ship balance, it may cause something like BPS-500, cannot launch missile when running ( the ship stall too much), that while only 1 ship was build, the second one was cancel, we did not having any experience on design a good ship.
i think if we have the design, making the hull may be not impossible, we already make BPS-500 hull many year ago, and now we can make DN-2000, but the problem is integrate all the system ( engine, control, gun). I heard something that AK-176 on TT-400TP cann't shoot flying target because some reason ( may be the ship design or problem integration the control system and gun, ship) while Molniya don't meet that problem.
i think if we can solve the these 2 problem, we can make a Vietnamese ship design by ourself.

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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Pfff as a expect, another load of crap. Not that i expect anything else from US Shamecum anyway
> 
> I read though the first half of your argument and its seem plausible enough, but then this.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL LOL LOL Are you high on drug or something ? Sure there are UAV that has dimensions around that such as the MQ-1 Reaper with the length of 8 meters and the wingspan of 14.8 meters. But then there is UAV like RQ-4 Global Hawk with the wingspan that nearly 3 times the length so that assumption about " Wingspan is twice the length" smell very cummy.
> 
> You are like "1+1 = 2, 2+2 = 4 and therefore the Earth is flat". Sound really stupid if not utterly retarded. Symptoms of a person that got his head hit the ground extremely hard after being kicked off from a helicopter by an American.
> 
> And you seem doubtful of the UAV wingspan ? Then take a guess of this UAV wingspan and you will see that such angle cannot be used to determine precisely a object. Much easier if you assume every square is 1 feet long though :v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the assumption that those bricks that made up the floor is "1 feet long" is another point that very cummy. Since 30 x 30 and 20 x 20 bricks are mostly used in household while large open space for demonstrating purpose use much larger size bricks which usually fall into 40 x 40 to say the least.
> 
> Now its possible that the machine that in the clip is only a model to fit the space but its wingspan will never be a 5m in any way, so now lets check the clip below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look carefully at 1 : 01. I see at least 10 visible bricks under the right wings, maybe a lot of more since the pillar is blocking the view. In the worst case that this is also the true size of the the UAV, its still offer more than 10 meter of wingspan. And with the using of Rotax power plant, covering 4,000 km without having to carry any weapons is a feasible task.
> 
> You are not exposing anyone, you just pretend to be sophisticated while weasel your way through any questions that seem too high for your knowledge, that is it, plain and simple.


You cumback with nothing but a bunch of uneducated cummie comments and "analysis". Now you even use an analogy of a U.S UAV parked on a tarmac and compare it with an RC Toy of yours parked in a tiny little room. I don't believe any third worlder like u have ever seen a square of runway tarmac to even use that to compare with a square of a floor tile, LOL. 

I already look at your photos and video. That thing that you guys claim to be a HALE UAV is too tiny, my cummie friend. Your total wingspan is about 10-15 pieces of floor tiles across and that totaled up to be no more than 15 feet. 15 feet is LESS THAN 5 meters my friend, sorry to expose your b.s. I already said, this is an international forum, not your usual vit konk forum where you throw out propaganda to feel good among yourselves. LOL. 

Countries with strong industrial base have to go through great length to be able to make a MALE UAV then they move up to HALE UAV. Shitnam of yours has little to no industrial capabilities and now you're telling the world that you jump out of no where and produce a HALE UAV like you're claiming now? You don't even have any wind tunnel to test your flying rc toy or any of your "UFO"; lol. Just look at that p.o.s again and see if it's even anywhere close to the scale of the Reaper? 

Maybe the typical cummie like you can only afford a scooter to go around that's why your head gets bombarded with u.v ray to think straight?


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## Shotgunner51

Report received, thread temporarily locked for checking, 5-10 minutes, sorry for the inconvenience.

Edit: Thread re-open now, as per forum rule please avoid personal insult, thanks!

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Why is it so difficult for Vietnam to make a 1000 ton patrol ship? I'm sure the capability to build it is there, so the issue is the design of the ship? Can't scale up the design of the TT-400TP or the Molniya?


It's not that easy to upscale a ship design. 

We got the TT-400 design from Ukraine and DN-2000/4000 from the Netherlands. Now we're looking for a 1000-1500 ton ship design though.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> You cumback with nothing but a bunch of uneducated cummie comments and "analysis". Now you even use an analogy of a U.S UAV parked on a tarmac and compare it with an RC Toy of yours parked in a tiny little room. I don't believe any third worlder like u have ever seen a square of runway tarmac to even use that to compare with a square of a floor tile, LOL.
> 
> I already look at your photos and video. That thing that you guys claim to be a HALE UAV is too tiny, my cummie friend. Your total wingspan is about 10-15 pieces of floor tiles across and that totaled up to be no more than 15 feet. 15 feet is LESS THAN 5 meters my friend, sorry to expose your b.s. I already said, this is an international forum, not your usual vit konk forum where you throw out propaganda to feel good among yourselves. LOL.
> 
> Countries with strong industrial base have to go through great length to be able to make a MALE UAV then they move up to HALE UAV. Shitnam of yours has little to no industrial capabilities and now you're telling the world that you jump out of no where and produce a HALE UAV like you're claiming now? You don't even have any wind tunnel to test your flying rc toy or any of your "UFO"; lol. Just look at that p.o.s again and see if it's even anywhere close to the scale of the Reaper?
> 
> Maybe the typical cummie like you can only afford a scooter to go around that's why your head gets bombarded with u.v ray to think straight?


I prefer if you answer to other people's posts without resorting to insulting ...I wasn't there so don't know what's real, but you should know at least, man usually loves to brag his is longer until it is proven otherwise?

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> scale up the design seem not easy because it may affect the ship balance, it may cause something like BPS-500, cannot launch missile when running ( the ship stall too much), that while only 1 ship was build, the second one was cancel, we did not having any experience on design a good ship.
> i think if we have the design, making the hull may be not impossible, we already make BPS-500 hull many year ago, and now we can make DN-2000, but the problem is integrate all the system ( engine, control, gun). I heard something that AK-176 on TT-400TP cann't shoot flying target because some reason ( may be the ship design or problem integration the control system and gun, ship) while Molniya don't meet that problem.
> i think if we can solve the these 2 problem, we can make a Vietnamese ship design by ourself.





Silent Knight said:


> It's not that easy to upscale a ship design.
> 
> We got the TT-400 design from Ukraine and DN-2000/4000 from the Netherlands. Now we're looking for a 1000-1500 ton ship design though.



Very good explanation, thank you. Have to buy the rights of a foreign design then.


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## Thao Nguyen

Carlosa said:


> Very good explanation, thank you. Have to buy the rights of a foreign design then.


yeah, before we can make of our own, we should find some teacher

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## Carlosa

Thao Nguyen said:


> yeah, before we can make of our own, we should find some teacher



I think India can provide a lot of assistance including design assistance.



Farhan Bohra said:


> Well, well if that happened, and Vietnam rolled out a tender for 6000-7000 tonne frigate , then GRSE indeed going to participate with P-17 A.



What is the expected price of the P-17 A? It looks mighty good.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> I think India can provide a lot of assistance including design assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the expected price of the P-17 A? It looks mighty good.


Dont know, but one can imagine that is even surpassing P-15B Destroyer , they just calling it frigate. But with weapon system and sensors, Command and Control structure, almost all are same.

Let me post some article about P-17 A and P-15 A, from there you can imagine all things.

*This is from 2011*

In what can only be described as joyous ‘Deepavali-eve’ tidings for the Indian Navy (IN), the Govt of India’s Cabinet Committee on National Security (CCNS) earlier last week finally approved the Ministry of Defence’s proposal for kick-starting the Project 17A guided-missile frigate’s (FFG) design-cum-construction programme, which is already running four years behind schedule. Consequently, the MoD-owned and Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL), teamed with Fincantieri, has at long-last, received both the green light and the much-required funds required for commencing work on the Project 17A FFG programme, which now calls for the Project 17A FFG to be an advanced derivative of the existing 5,600-tonne Project 17 Shivalik-class FFG, and NOT a brand-new warship design outsourced from abroad. While MDL will be the lead yard for both detailed design and construction of the first four Project 17A FFGs, Kolkata-based Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers will build the remaining three FFGs. It is estimated that the first Project 17A FFG will be launched five years (within 60 months, or by 2017) after its keel-laying ceremony (to be held in the latter half of next year), followed by the remaining six FFGs being delivered every successive year through to 2022.






The CCNS decision, which is likely to cause dismay to foreign shipbuilders like Fincantieri of Italy, France’s Direction des Constructions Navales (DCNS), Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Russia’s Severnoye Design Bureau/Admiralty Shipyards, Spain’s Navantia, the UK’s BAE Systems, and South Korea’s Hyundai Heavy Industries, is likely to result in the Project 17 FFG’s design being modified to accommodate new-generation weapon systems like the Barak-2 MR-SAM/EL/M-2248 MF-STAR combination (see: http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2011/04/mf-star-deliveries-for-project-15a-ddgs_07.html) instead of the Cashmere area air defence system comprising the 24 rounds of 40km-range 9M317M Shtil-1 MR-SAMs, 3S-90 missile launcher, four MR-90 Orekh target illuminators, and the Salyut FSUE-built E-band MR-760 Fregat M2EM 3-D radar; plus BrahMos vertically-launched supersonic multi-role cruise missiles instead of the the eight Novator-built 3M54E Klub-N supersonic 220km-range anti-ship cruise missiles. The crew complement will likely be reduced from the existing 257 (including 35 officers) to about 110 by introducing high levels of automation, which will translate into a savings of around 20% in operational costs and higher operational availability of the warships. The Project 17A FFG’s superstructure will also make extensive use of composites similar to what’s now being done on board the latter two of the four Project 28 Kamorta-class ASW corvettes now under fabrication by GRSE.

The decision to fast-track the project 17A FFG construction programme comes close on the heels of a major upgrade undertaken by MDL of its integrated shipbuilding processes for FFGs, which will become idle once the third and last Project 17 FFG—INS Sahyadri—is commissioned into service early next year. Therefore, in order to make optimum utilisation of its warship-building capacities and capabilities, the MoD, in an unusual show of pragmatism, had last month decided to fast-track the indigenous warship construction roadmap. 

Thus far, MDL’s infrastructure modernisation plans have moved ahead in four areas: installation of a 300-tonne Goliath crane, construction of a new modular workshop for FFGs, and fabrication of a wet-basin for the outfitting of FFGs and DDGs. All three of these will be ready for usage by early next year and will make MDL the first MoD-owned DPSU to undertake integrated shipbuilding concurrently for two lines of warships and two lines of submarines: the seven Project 17A FFGs, the four 6,800-tonne Project 15B guided-missile destroyers (DDG), and the six Scorpene SSKs and the yet-to-be-ordered Project 75I SSKs. In addition to all this, MDL has also built two more modular workshops—one for warship-building (the four Project 15B DDGs) and the other for submarine construction—at the Alcock Yard, which is adjacent to MDL’s main yard. Consequently, by late next year, MDL will have two dedicated submarine construction facilities—one at its East Yard and the other at the Alcock Yard, both of which will be used for the accelerated delivery of the six Scorpene SSKs on order. As things now stand, the first Scorpene will be launched by August 2015, with the sixth being launched by September 2018.

*P-15 A







*

And each Project 15A DDG’s acquisition cost is almost US$950 million (Rs.38 billion), while that of each Project 17 FFG is US$650 million (Rs.26 billion). The cost escalation in these two shipbuilding projects has been about 225% for Project 15A, about 260% for Project 17, with the main reasons contributing towards cost escalations being: delay in supply of warship-building D-40S steel by Russia, escalation due to increases in expenditure of the services rendered by Russian specialists on account of inflation during the build-period, impact of wage revisions due from October 2003, and finalisation of cost of weapons and sensors. 






INS Kolkata, whose keel was laid down on September 23, 2003, was launched on March 30, 2006. Therefore, detailed design of this class of DDG (using TRIBON CAD software) by a joint team comprising the IN’s in-house Directorate of Naval Design (DND)—which celebrates its 50 years of existence this year—and the MoD-owned shipbuilder Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL), should have been concluded by mid-2002. But this was not to be, since the weapon-and-sensor fitments were yet to be selected at that time. It was only on January 27, 2006 that India’s MoD-owned Defence R & D Organisation (DRDO) and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) inked the Barak-2 LR-SAM’s joint five-year joint R & D contract—valued at US$556 million—following 17 months of exhaustive negotiations. And the follow-on US$1.1 billion procurement contract for Barak-2 LR-SAMs and the three EL/M-2248 S-band multi-function search-and-target acquisition radars (MF-STAR)—the first naval active phased-array radars to become operational with a navy of the Indian Ocean Region (IOR)—was inked in April 2009. As a result, it can be safely inferred that the DND had finalised only about 70% of the DDG’s design by 2003.

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## Farhan Bohra

What cannot be denied, however, is that the IN’s DND and its captive centre of excellence—the Weapons & Electronics Systems Engineering Establishment (WESEE)—along with MDL, have succeeded in fabricating and delivering an engineering marvel, despite several institutional handicaps. For instance, designing and building the main mast housing the EL/M-2248 was no small achievement. This APAR comprises four 3 x 3-metre fixed-array faces (each weighing 1,500kg) based on a modular tile-array architecture providing full 360-degree coverage. Liquid cooling is used to dissipate heat at the arrays. The EL/M-2248’s on-board processors and power-suppliers together weigh 900kg and are housed within six cabinets--two for the processors and four for the power-supply hardware. The entire MF-STAR suite thus weighs 6,900kg. In addition to 3-D long-range airspace volume search, the EL/M-2248 simultaneously provides ASCM approach warning; target classification; maritime surface surveillance; active and semi-active SAM support; fire-control for the OTOBreda 76/62 SRGM; and multiple targets engagement capabilities. It can detect a combat aircraft flying at high altitude at ranges of up to 250km, while an incoming ASCM can be detected at ranges of up to 25km.

The INS Kolkata’s CMS-15A combat management system (CMS), developed by the WESEE, includes the IAI-developed Weapon Control System (WCS), which performs threat evaluation and resource allocation functions, thereby optimising the capabilities of the CMS. The WCS thus provides simultaneous long-range volume search, threat alert, target verification/acquisition, target classification, track-while-search, and dedicated track, multi-long-range intercept support, and kill assessment capabilities. It is also characterised by:
* Wide intercept envelopes against a wide variety of targets.
* Quick reaction, short response time and minimum intercept range, these being crucial in scenarios of late target detection, high-speed attacking weapons, and restrained response policy.
* Long-range area defence.
* Effective against targets from low-altitude to their maximum operational flight altitude.
* Simultaneous multi-target engagement capability and multi-missile co-existence capability for ensuring effectiveness against saturation attacks.
* De-confliction and coordination capabilities in dense and complex scenarios.
* Advanced ECCM features.
* Built-in threat evaluation, resources allocation and engagement coordination with other on-board defence systems.
* 2-way data-link with LR-SAMs (housed within eight 8-cell modules each weighing 1,700kg) increases mission success and target selectivity by providing the missile with real-time in-flight targetting updates, and providing real-time kill assessment to support shoot-look-shoot operations.
* Multi-system interoperability (task force-level as well as carrier battle group-level operations), under which each system may operate either as a standalone unit, supported by own sensors for engagement and guidance; or integrated in a multi-warship task force. Joint task force-level operation enables coordinated engagement of threats, mission optimisation (engaging each target with the optimal interceptor, in the optimal time) and resource sharing.
* Advanced Net-of-Nets architecture to ensure interoperability with other air-defence assets, such as remote/airborne radars mounted on aerostats) and external command-and-control centres).
* The Barak-8 LR-SAM’s flexible dual-pulse motor propulsion system provides high manoeuvrability at target interception range throughout its wide envelope.
* High-performance missile warhead specially designed for catering to a wide variety of airborne targets, and which guarantees robust target destruction.
* Built-in fratricide avoidance for undertaking safe air-defence operations near friendly air-traffic.

* Gunnery support capability, including combined missiles/gun engagement.
*
Ideally, the RAN-40L should have gone on-board the INS Kolkata, just like the 127mm cannon should have been selected instead of the 76/62 SRGM. The seven P-17A FFGs & four P-15B DDGs will have the same type of on-board sensors & weapons fitments as on the INS Kolkata. But only time will tell whether a further design revision is undertaken at a later date to incorporate new-generation L-band radars & 127mm cannons. As for the BARCO AMLCDs, just picture for yourself a standard-looking bridge, with the three AMLCDs hanging from the ceiling of the bridge behind the CO’s chair, plus one 20-inch AMLCD in front of the CO to display the IIR imagery. Right now, only the IN has long-distance two-way data-links operational (the LINK-2 & now the LINK-3) & they’re on par with the best that’s available from abroad. The IAF & IA don’t yet have such data-links in place. The IAF has tactical two-way data-links for use by combat aircraft that need to communicate with the A-50I PHALCONs, data-links for receiving air situation picture on the ground from the A-50Is, data-links for receiving recce imagery on the ground & in the battlefield from RecceLite pods, data-links for downloading on the ground real-time SAR imagery obtained from EL/M-2060P pods, & data-links for sending such data to a satellite from Bombardier Global 5000 equipped with EL/M-2060 SAR & then bouncing this data back to ground receiving stations in real-time. SATCOM-based data-links can only be jammed over the battlefield & not anywhere else. LINK-3 data-link operating in the L- & Ku-bands, & not Ka-band.

The bridge of INS Kolkata is breathtaking indeed & features three large AMLCDs sourced from Belgium’s BARCO on which the DDG’s CO, while present on the bridge, can be shown the entire land, sea & air situational awareness projections all at the same time, i.e. the very same projections available at the combat information centre (CIC). This was a concept the WESEE had designed & co-developed with the DRDO after it had done a comprehensive study of the US Navy’s AEGIS system. The Indian version, though, is not as advanced as the AEGIS since the AEGIS makes use of data available from a host of space-based & airborne platforms (i.e. the cooperative engagement capability) the kind of which is not yet available to the IN. But the incorporation of the LINK-3 data-link operating in the L- & Ka-bands (the latter with the help of GSAT-7/Rukmini) has improved the IN’s at-sea situational awareness by leaps & bounds. 
*

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## Viet

Visiting Asean summit in Laos
can it be the laotian army is modelled after Vietnam people's army?

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam: A 'Pivot to Asia' for France?*
What to expect from Francois Hollande’s state visit to Vietnam.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/vietnam-a-pivot-to-asia-for-france/

By Quoc-Thanh Nguyen
September 07, 2016

French President Francois Hollande is paying a state visit to Vietnam from September 5 to 7. This represents a good omen for future exchanges between the two countries. The emphasis will be officially put on cultural cooperation and the reinforcement of links between Paris and Hanoi. However, the Vietnamese are expecting a lot from this visit, especially since French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian gave a speech mentioning joint EU patrols of “the maritime areas of Asia” at the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore last June.

According to the French ambassador to Vietnam, Hollande’s visit to Vietnam (the third by a French president since the early 1990s and the advent of the Doi Moi reform policy) aims at encouraging environmental protection measures. Furthermore, France will help Vietnam to better manage air quality by building an air quality measurement system. However, another area will be of particular interest: it is likely that Hollande and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang will examine how to strengthen the strategic partnership that the two countries signed in 2013.

It is in the interest of Vietnam to develop economic ties with this European power; likewise, Paris cares a lot about its economic interests in Southeast Asia. A report by the French Senate in 2014 (No. 723) gave high priority to exchanges with Southeast Asian countries and especially with Vietnam. Today, 300,000 Vietnamese people are living and studying in France. France is the second largest historical bilateral donor for Vietnam, just behind Japan, with $1.7 billion in cumulative aid since 1993. French exports to Vietnam were worth $858 million in 2014 and rose to $1.57 billion in 2015. There are 300 French firms operating in Vietnam, providing 26 000 jobs. With Hollande’s visit, economic and financial ties will be strengthened with 20 new bilateral measures to facilitate trades between these two partners.

But apart from these exchanges, the most important part of the discussions will focus on defense cooperation, which was also part of the 2013 strategic partnership agreement.

France has the second largest maritime domain in the world and its “Sovereignty Forces,” with 72 combat and support ships, have a long experience in warm seas. Freedom of navigation is a subject dear to France because of its overseas territories. Even if the French overseas territories are mainly in the Pacific Ocean their interest in Southeast Asia is growing each year. In the last decade, France lost considerable ground in Africa; it now needs to reposition itself in Asia.

By this visit to an historical old partner, Hollande will not only boost economic but also military ties. The timing could not have been any better; Vietnam is actually in the market for fighter jets and a more advanced missile system. After the massive leak scandal involving French submarine builder DCNS, it is necessary for the French to send a positive image in terms of their reliability and seriousness in defense cooperation. And it is also time to work out a policy to compete with the Asian superpowers. The end of the U.S. lethal arms embargo on Vietnam made Hanoi a potential good customer for French armament manufacturers. But the competition is severe with Asian suppliers, not mention Russians or Americans. The $500 million defense credit India just offered to Vietnam for defense cooperation, combined with military deals Hanoi has signed with Tokyo, will make it very difficult for the French delegation.

On the Vietnamese side, the “rapprochement” between China and Cambodia does not augur well for its future geopolitical stability. With China’s maritime militia active in the South China Sea despite a ruling from the Permanent Court of Arbitration denying China’s “historic rights” in the waters, it seems that China already has the power to slow down Vietnamese maritime activities. Combined with a bad relationship with Vietnam’s closest neighbor and ally on land, this would be the worst-case scenario for Vietnam. More than ever, Hanoi needs to upgrade exchanges with a European partner.

France is the most likely bet in this regard as well. Paris prepared its “pivot” to Southeast Asia starting in 2013. After French navy frigate _Georges Leygues_ visited Ho Chi Minh City, another frigate, the _Vendemiaire,_ visited Da Nang and last May, the amphibious assault ship _Tonnerre_ docked at Cam Ranh international port, evidence enough that the French are back in the South China Sea. Hollande’s visit will seek to strengthen this strategic cooperation as well.

_Dr. Quoc-Thanh Nguyen is an associate member at IrAsia, the National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS), Aix-Marseille University._


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## Silent Knight

With the information from @Farhan Bohra, I think that the P-17A would be out of the competition against FREMM or De Zeven Provicien frigate before it even participates.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> With the information from @Farhan Bohra, I think that the P-17A would be out of the competition against FREMM or De Zeven Provicien frigate before it even participates.



What is the reason?


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> With the information from @Farhan Bohra, I think that the P-17A would be out of the competition against FREMM or De Zeven Provicien frigate before it even participates.


I dont because of which reason?


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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> What would be the reason why the FREMM has a better chance other than the loans? Loans help, but...



Loans help? Loan/credit line can be the end game. I already explained, the lack of loan ended the Sigma plan. VN at the last minute had to reallocate funds from Sigma plan for other stuff so Damen was asked to offer the Sigma on credit/loan and Damen, in turn, asked the Dutch govt to back the loan. Damen couldn’t arranged it so VN had no choice but to cancel the Sigma plan. So loan or no loan can be the deal breaker, its wrong to say “loans *help*, but...” 



> but the ship is also quite expensive and that makes a big difference also.



Why do you think FREMM is expensive? Last year Italy added a contract for 2 FREMM for $800 million. Do you know how much Sigma 10514 cost to say FREMM is expensive? Or how much did the last ordered pair of VN Gepard cost?




> I think the FREMM is too big and too expensive for VN's needs and having only 16 air defense missiles in the French version is clearly not enough, it would it have to be customised for Vietnam. I don't know, but I think Vietnam needs smaller ships.



You ignored the fact that french FREMM can be fitted with 16 very very long range land attack cruise missiles, in addition to the said SAM. Damen Sigma cannot compare to FREMM, they are in different class. If Sigma is fitted with all the toys that FREMM has, maybe Sigma will capsize during a 1 degree turn. And VN dont need/cant afford all the toys that are fitted on the French/Italian version.


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## Carlosa

*Cambodia's Anti-Vietnam Obsession*
Anti-Vietnamese sentiment dominates Cambodia, even among otherwise progressive NGOs and political groups. 

http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/cambodias-anti-vietnam-obsession/

By Tim Frewer
September 06, 2016


On June 21, 2015 a mixed contingent of soldiers and police descended upon Areyksat village in Kandal province to forcibly remove 55 houseboats and 10 houses on the river banks. Unlike other violent evictions — which are far from rare in Cambodia — the logic of removal was not to make way for development or infrastructure, but for “environmental reasons.” The people, all of whom happened to be ethnic Vietnamese, were purportedly “polluting the area” – which, according to local authorities, impacts on “local beauty” and “national and international tourism.” On one of the many pro Cambodian People’s Party (CPP) news channels that night, the news presenters gleefully presented the story, noting that “illegal immigrants have to respect the rule of law” and local authorities should be commended for “protecting the environment.” They even [incorrectly] added that a number of the evictees had been deported to Vietnam – to triumphant smiles.

Two weeks later, this small Vietnamese community was pondering where to go when a large group of students — flanked by government officials — came to clean up the area, walking around picking up litter. They cited the need for “citizens” to protect and clean the environment. In a bizarre scene “student environmentalists” joined soldiers in “cleaning up” the local “environment” (which really equated to a straight out eviction), to the astonished stares of the recently evicted.

It wasn’t the first time this Vietnamese community had been pushed away from the land they considered their home – since the early 1990s they had been forced to relocate several times. Although most in the community were in fact born in Cambodia, without proper identification they had few avenues to challenge the eviction.

In Siem Reap’s Chong Kneas, Vietnamese floating villages have been cut off from land by the establishment of the Sou Ching boat port, which manages the 3,000 to 4000 tourists per month who come to visit Cambodia’s famed Tonle Sap lake. Since the construction of the port in 2008, the Vietnamese floating villages have been systematically excluded from the benefits of increasing tourist flows. The port was built on the premises that it would “clean up” and “develop” the area. The floating village, which the tourism industry paints as a quaint and exotic experience of river life for tourist consumption, is actually a highly vulnerable group of stateless people who are literally relegated to the water while being largely excluded from the land.

In Kompong Chnang, provincial authorities armed with master plans to “clean up” the city, are in the process of evicting around 1,000 ethnic Vietnamese on the premise that they are “degrading and polluting” the fragile riverside. Since 2000, Vietnamese floating villages have gone up and down the Tonle Sap River, being pushed out and evicted by authorities under the guise of “environmental protection.”

In August, _Radio Free Asia_ reported that in Kratie authorities were “finally” formulating a plan to clean up the riverside (along the Mekong) and in particular deal with the “unregulated and polluting” Vietnamese residents who have taken up residence along the river. (In reality, fishing villages are comprised of Khmer and Cham immigrants as well. Some, such as Kompong Luong in Pursat are mixed, while those in Kompong Chnang and Siem Reap tend to be more segregated.)

Clearly there are commonalities between these stories. Vietnamese who happen to live on the water are in an ever tenuous position at the confluence of statelessness, a livelihood dependence on fishing, a lack of any legal claim to the places they reside, increasing state management of these formerly unregulated places, and of course a pervasive public sentiment which seeks to scrutinize the presence of ethnic Vietnamese who live in Cambodian territory.

Unlike evictions in urban settings, or of the rural poor, these evictions largely go unnoticed and without comment. NGOs do not flock to the cause of poor Vietnamese evictees. No colorful protests are made, no international media come to document their plight. People on Khmer radio don’t angrily demand justice. Academics working on evictions largely ignore them. Vietnamese who speak out do not become household names. In most cases they quietly agree to eviction orders and move on.

My aim of bringing up these small snippets – which of course are entirely lacking in complexity – is not to try and carve out Viet-Cambodians as the latest vulnerable group for NGOs or researchers to victimize (another group to add to Cambodia’s seemingly never ending list of “the vulnerable”). Rather, it is to draw attention to a manifestation of a central pivot of Cambodian politics which remains largely understudied and under-discussed – the posturing of Vietnamese as a territorial threat to the future of the Khmer community. My aim in bringing up this issue at a time when Cambodia is plagued by seemingly much larger problems is to draw attention to the way in which diverse issues within Cambodia continue to be articulated in relation to a deep suspicion and hatred of the Vietnamese. Cambodia is currently at a critical juncture leading up to the 2018 elections and while democracy, human rights, governance, and legitimacy will all be central aspects of both analysis and activism, few are willing to acknowledge how deeply anti-Vietnamese sentiment has saturated Cambodian politics.

*Everyone Is Entitled to a Little Fascism*

Comparing the colonial state and the post-colonial state, one of the key defying features of the latter is that the authority and sovereign right to brutally deal with unwanted populations deemed outside the political community is entrusted entirely to the post-colonial state. Small states such as Cambodia may be under enormous pressure to enter into bilateral and multilateral trade deals, which severely emasculate notions of sovereignty; they can be forced to engage in lengthy and vague programs of democracy building and good governance; they can have their entire bureaucracies built and crisscrossed with foreign NGOs, development experts, and foreign consultants; they can be under pressure to grant huge swathes of land to foreign investors; to re-create parts of the country as a large amusement park for the pleasure of foreign tourists; to celebrate wave after wave of foreign NGOs and humanitarians doing banal and ill thought out development projects; even in accepting unwanted refugees from bigger countries. But the one thing that can never be taken away is nationalism and the dream of sovereignty. Cambodia may be a poor, economically and politically marginalized state that has been colonized by the Thai, Vietnamese, and French (and the international community through NGOs and donors) but in the current system even small states can despotically rule over their territories and populations, needing only to cite sovereignty.

The colonial dream to resurrect an ancient culture in decline, to restore old territorial boundaries, to have absolute control of who is (and who is not) allowed to move across borders, and to restore political power to the legitimate Khmer ruling class is alive and well in modern day Cambodia. Although Cambodians are typically viewed within international media and academic research as victims — of the Khmer Rouge, of a kleptocratic regime, of land abuse, of gender inequality, and of climate change — Cambodia, just like any other real country, is also home to anti-immigrant populist movements, racism, and bigotry. And here is one of the most appealing things about ultra-nationalism — people may be illiterate and excluded from a decent education, from healthcare, from dignified work, from the spoils of kleptocracy, but the one thing everyone can engage in is nationalism. You do not need to be educated or part of the elite to join in hating Vietnamese.

Forests may fall, the landless may be increasing day by day, those abandoned by the state may engage in ever more precarious and dangerous labor, yet it consistently seems to be issues around immigration and removing foreign Vietnamese influence from government structures that public sentiment remains fixated upon. So pervasive and ubiquitous is the idea that Vietnam – and more specifically Vietnamese people – are the root cause of Cambodia’s woes that such a sentiment can be found among progressive NGOs, forest activists, local authorities, land activists, the rich, and the governing elite alike.

When the popular political analyst Kem Lay was tragically gunned down in Phnom Penh last month, bereaved onlookers, wary of police interfering with crucial evidence, attempted to stop an officer from moving the body. What was strange though was the angry crowd’s decision to scream “yuon” (a derogatory term for Vietnamese) at police, accusing them of being Vietnamese. How they could so quickly and unanimously decide – without any particularly compelling evidence – that the officer was Vietnamese solely on the basis that he was doing something seen as deeply threatening to a cherished Khmer hero says a lot about common ideas of the Vietnamese. Such an accusation coming from angry crowds is far from uncommon – during the 2014 protests, protestors at Freedom Park taunted security guards by calling them “yuon” for a similar reason (even though they were actually Khmer) – which in turn elicited a violent response. On more than one occasion such an accusation has resulted in group beatings – even killing the accused, or the ransacking of property for no other reason than the owners were Vietnamese.

Most disturbingly, it is not just angry crowds or protesters who hold such views. Suspicion – even outright hatred – of Vietnamese is not uncommon within activist circles and progressive NGOs. On multiple occasions I have witnessed Khmer NGO staff who work in organizations that are at the forefront of land, natural resource, and human rights issues engaging in tirades aimed at Vietnamese without being challenged. Or recently, during a trip to Prey Lang with forest activists, I was forced to endure a long tedious rant by a young forest activist with links to Mother Nature and part of Kem Ley’s “young political analyst group” about how the Vietnamese are the real cause of Cambodia’s mismanaged forests. Even at Politikocoffee, a weekly forum set up by young Cambodian liberals and bloggers, it is still almost impossible to have a conversation about the issue of the Vietnamese in Cambodia without evoking nationalist sentiments and strong emotions on Vietnamese “illegally crossing the border.”

The problem here is that ultra-nationalism has quietly colonized emerging opposition to the current regime. So entrenched is the idea that the current regime is a Vietnamese puppet (i.e. it is quintessentially opposed to Khmerness) that opposition to the Hun Sen regime and opposition to Vietnamese are too often one and the same thing. Cambodia’s swing to China — not to mention French colonialism, NGO colonialism, the role of China during the Khmer Rouge period, historic Thai invasions, and the fact that Cambodia actually gained land from the Champassak kingdom of southern Laos — are all ignored. Instead, a persistent political discourse draws a seemingly undeniable line between the loss of ancestral Khmer land (Kampuchea Krom land in the Vietnamese southern delta, Koh Tral island off the coast of Kampot, and more recently a much smaller area of contested land along the eastern border) and the post Khmer Rouge Vietnamese backed regime and more recent problems of corruption and natural resource mismanagement. This alluringly simple thesis seems always to be lurking beneath the surface of popular sentiment – why is Cambodia small? _Yuon!_ Why is Cambodia poor? _Yuon! _Why are forests and natural resource mismanaged? _Youn! _… Why do I have a stomach ache? _Yuon! _

*Do Vietnamese Lives Matter?*

There has been some English language media on the Cambodia National Rescue Party and particularly Sam Rainsy and Kem Sokha’s exploitation of anti–Vietnamese sentiment. But it is important to note that anti-Vietnamese sentiment goes well and truly beyond just the CNRP. Leader of the League for Democracy Party Khem Veasna (which hooked just over 1 percent of votes in the 2013 elections, to make it the fourth biggest party) is renowned for bizarre anti-immigrant rants (always directed solely at the yuon) that would make Donald Trump embarrassed. The recent rise of Soun Serey Ratha’s Khmer Power Party is similarly explicitly based around “kicking out the youn from Cambodia.” Even Som Sovanara — an exiled former RCAF soldier who has been calling for an overthrow of the military from Canada — always emphasizes the urgency of “freeing Cambodians from the Vietnamese puppet regime.”

There is nothing new about this – the persecution and violent scapegoating of Vietnamese has been the mainstay of Cambodian politics since the Lon Nol regime in the 1970s. The violent massacres of Viet Cambodians in 1970 at the hands of Lon Nol — which Cambodians have almost entirely managed to collectively forget — were remarkable for the fact that General Lon Nol was able to exploit anti-Vietnamese sentiment to lessen mass resentment over the fact that for the first time in 1,000 years the beloved monarchy had been done away with. So too, new research — and especially new evidence appearing at the Khmer Rouge tribunal — is showing the Khmer Rouge regime not just as a paranoid self-destructive killing machine, but a regime whose ultimate downfall and mass killings resulted from the deeply biopolitical goal of systematically eliminating Vietnamessness from the Cambodian political community. Not a single Vietnamese who stayed in Cambodia during the Democratic Kampuchea regime is thought to have survived and it is for this reason that the term “genocide” is being used in relations to the regime’s purging of the Vietnamese.

It is clear though that Cambodian public sentiment – which has been supported through international media – is struggling to acknowledge the suffering of non-Khmer groups during this time and the role that ultra-nationalism played in perpetuating violence. That people can still get away with claiming that the Khmer Rouge’s savagery was somehow due to Vietnamese infiltration is absurd – not only because this is the very discourse that the KR themselves used to violently weed out “foreign elements,” but because it totally disavows violence against Vietnamese.

Contrary to popular sentiment, it could also be argued that the 1990s were an important era which normalized marginalization and hatred of Vietnamese in Cambodian politics. A popular trope of opposition politicians and political analysts is that the post KR regime ushered in a mass immigration of Vietnamese under the tutelage of first the Vietnamese army and then the Hun Sen regime. Here is not the place to debate these claims – which are typically accompanied with exaggeration, heady emotions, nationalistic fervor, and straight out racism (see here, though, for a good discussion). Like most issues in Cambodia, Hun Sen’s CPP had a political interest in deferring and failing to promote any sensible discussions or policies on the Vietnamese in Cambodia, which essentially allowed all those opposed to the CPP to monopolize the issue. Yet even then a number of laws were progressively released that increasingly excluded Vietnamese Cambodians and made them stateless and disenfranchised. There were also numerous state led attempts to “crack down” on Vietnamese immigration in and around Phnon Penh, which merely resulted in more evictions of Vietnamese Cambodians.

In the chaos and violence of the ‘90s, as the UN forces (UNTAC) clumsily tried to stitch together a peace agreement and set Cambodia on its democratic experiment, violence toward Vietnamese and their political exclusion became normalized amidst increasingly extremist anti-Vietnamese views. Not only the Khmer Rouge, but other non-government forces, such as FUNCINPEC and the KPLNF, were virulently anti-Vietnamese. The 1993 Khmer Rouge massacre of 33 Vietnamese in Siem Reap’s Chong Kneas was not only remarkable for its brutality (the killing of unarmed men, women, and children) but for the fact that none of the political factions demonstrated any sympathy for the victims and could even come out calling for a stop to Vietnamese immigration in the days after (even though all the victims were born in Cambodia). So too a vicious attack on a Vietnamese floating village in Kompong Chnang as late as 1998 never saw any justice for the victims of the massacre (even though the perpetrators publicly acknowledged their involvement – they are now in the RCAF) and the event has largely been forgotten by the public. Such attacks on Vietnamese were common throughout the 1990s. Just in 1992 and 1993, 130 Vietnamese were killed, and 75 seriously injured in racially targeted attacks across Cambodia (not all of these were done on the part of the Khmer Rouge). Compare this to the 1997 attack on Sam Rainsy’s Khmer National Party rally, which resulted in the deaths between 16 and 20 people and which has been immortalized in public discourse.

Famed political analyst and independent researcher Kem Lay, who was tragically shot dead in central Phnom Penh last month, is perhaps a good measure of contemporary political views toward Vietnamese in Cambodia. Kem Lay’s analyses, which were frequently broadcast on _Radio Free Asia_ and _Voice of America,_ were remarkable for the fact that they could link almost any issue to the Vietnamese – and in fact it was rare for Kem Lay not to bring up the Vietnamese in one of his talks. Although brave, straight to the point, and refreshingly dismissive of the type of bureaucratic and governmental approaches that usually dominate discussions of major problems in Cambodia, his research was hardly structured or critical. In some cases he would simply wander around the Tonle Sap or Phnom Penh’s Chbar Apov, taking note of Vietnamese speakers as if it were self-evident they are illegally residing in Cambodia and should be deported. He often talked of Vietnamese immigration as “a disease” inflicting Cambodians. His five point thesis on how the Vietnamese are destroying Cambodia was a tired and factually incorrect piece that only stirred up racists myths. His 100 Day Campaign was similarly structured around encouraging Cambodians to observe and record instances of Vietnamese “colonizing Cambodia.” His fables and village talks were full of subtle – yet obvious to Khmer speakers – references to Vietnam trying to swallow up Cambodia and in this way he perpetuated and exploited a widespread ignorance toward the Vietnamese (and more broadly a misconception about the contemporary relationship between Vietnamese and Cambodia).

That his research legacy is now being held up an example to Cambodian youth is extremely disturbing and suggests it will be a long time before more reasonable and sensible conversations about the issue can be publicly held. It is also noticeable that the English media has entirely failed to pick up not just on the nuances of his legacy but his fairly blatant anti-Vietnamese obsession. Meanwhile popular radio stations such as _Radio Free Asia_ and _Voice of Democracy_ blatantly promote his anti-Vietnamese views, although the increasing popularity of more measured analysts such as Meas Ny is a positive sign.

Returning back to the snippets of Vietnamese evictions this essay started with, it also has to be questioned to what degree NGOs, donors, and foreign consultants and experts — who are so present in Cambodia — have also ignored the issue of Vietnamese marginalization. During the UNTAC period, the UN was not only logistically unable to provide protection to the Vietnamese but also unwilling to politically tackle anti-Vietnamese violence. More recently there has been a deafening silence on the part of large NGOs and donors who have shown a willingness to involve themselves in almost every aspect of Cambodia’s development, from how rural people defecate to what they think of climate change.

Take the above mentioned evictions around the Tonle Sap and Mekong. Cambodia’s leading human rights NGOs — CCHR, LICHADO, and ADHOC — have been eerily quiet on all of these evictions. For most NGOs and the international development community operating in Cambodia, the problems facing Cambodia’s stateless Vietnamese — and the very real possibility of violence toward them — do not register as an issue at all. Yet as political analyst Ou Virak has recently pointed out, as one of the few people to publicly criticize anti-Vietnamese sentiment in Cambodian politics, “anti-Vietnamese theories” are popular “among the people, and everyone knows it.”

There are obvious and increasing tensions leading up to the 2018 elections in Cambodia. It is more than likely the CPP regime will be unable to secure the mass patronage of voters that it needs to win an election. The question is how it will react? It is hard not to see political killings such as that of Kem Ley as a clear message to the populace that fear and violence remain as important mechanisms of control. The recent Kafkeresque use of courts and the law to suppress dissent also demonstrates the CPPs continual dependence on the use of state apparatuses to stifle opposition. There are also disturbing indicators that the RCAF could be employed to “protect against” what it deems as a threat to the government and CPP – which certainly would not be unprecedented.

The other risk that no one talks about, though, is that increasing dissatisfaction and opposition to the regime will be expressed through anti- Vietnamese rhetoric – as it has been in every single election since 1993. That no one is willing to stand up for scapegoated Vietnamese — and that an anti-Vietnamese fascist-like movement has spread through Facebook and online media, emboldened by a new generation of Khmer activists — is indicative of future violence. With the CNRP already supporting members to scrutinize polling stations for non-Khmers, and different groups organizing for ways to ensure that “truckloads of Vietnamese” do not come to illegally vote (popularly seen as the most likely way the CPP will rig the vote), it seems more than likely that prejudices will flare during the election period and the Vietnamese are likely to bear the brunt.

The sad tragedy is that in fact hundreds of thousands of Viet Cambodians are already disenfranchised and with such limited political space to discuss the issue, any fair and just resolution remains far off in the future. Another important question is what would happen to Viet Cambodians if the CNRP did get into power. Would it be pressured into draconian and extreme measures to exclude Vietnamese Cambodians? Nearby Myanmar should be seen as a warning. What has happened to the Rohingya is a clear example of what happens when the state exploits fascisms for political gain – although it would not be for the first time that this has happened in Cambodia.

_Tim Frewer is a researcher and Ph.D. candidate at the University of Sydney who has been working and researching in Cambodia over the last decade._

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> *Cambodia's Anti-Vietnam Obsession*
> Anti-Vietnamese sentiment dominates Cambodia, even among otherwise progressive NGOs and political groups.
> 
> http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/cambodias-anti-vietnam-obsession/
> 
> By Tim Frewer
> September 06, 2016
> 
> 
> On June 21, 2015 a mixed contingent of soldiers and police descended upon Areyksat village in Kandal province to forcibly remove 55 houseboats and 10 houses on the river banks. Unlike other violent evictions — which are far from rare in Cambodia — the logic of removal was not to make way for development or infrastructure, but for “environmental reasons.” The people, all of whom happened to be ethnic Vietnamese, were purportedly “polluting the area” – which, according to local authorities, impacts on “local beauty” and “national and international tourism.” On one of the many pro Cambodian People’s Party (CPP) news channels that night, the news presenters gleefully presented the story, noting that “illegal immigrants have to respect the rule of law” and local authorities should be commended for “protecting the environment.” They even [incorrectly] added that a number of the evictees had been deported to Vietnam – to triumphant smiles.
> 
> Two weeks later, this small Vietnamese community was pondering where to go when a large group of students — flanked by government officials — came to clean up the area, walking around picking up litter. They cited the need for “citizens” to protect and clean the environment. In a bizarre scene “student environmentalists” joined soldiers in “cleaning up” the local “environment” (which really equated to a straight out eviction), to the astonished stares of the recently evicted.
> 
> It wasn’t the first time this Vietnamese community had been pushed away from the land they considered their home – since the early 1990s they had been forced to relocate several times. Although most in the community were in fact born in Cambodia, without proper identification they had few avenues to challenge the eviction.
> 
> In Siem Reap’s Chong Kneas, Vietnamese floating villages have been cut off from land by the establishment of the Sou Ching boat port, which manages the 3,000 to 4000 tourists per month who come to visit Cambodia’s famed Tonle Sap lake. Since the construction of the port in 2008, the Vietnamese floating villages have been systematically excluded from the benefits of increasing tourist flows. The port was built on the premises that it would “clean up” and “develop” the area. The floating village, which the tourism industry paints as a quaint and exotic experience of river life for tourist consumption, is actually a highly vulnerable group of stateless people who are literally relegated to the water while being largely excluded from the land.
> 
> In Kompong Chnang, provincial authorities armed with master plans to “clean up” the city, are in the process of evicting around 1,000 ethnic Vietnamese on the premise that they are “degrading and polluting” the fragile riverside. Since 2000, Vietnamese floating villages have gone up and down the Tonle Sap River, being pushed out and evicted by authorities under the guise of “environmental protection.”
> 
> In August, _Radio Free Asia_ reported that in Kratie authorities were “finally” formulating a plan to clean up the riverside (along the Mekong) and in particular deal with the “unregulated and polluting” Vietnamese residents who have taken up residence along the river. (In reality, fishing villages are comprised of Khmer and Cham immigrants as well. Some, such as Kompong Luong in Pursat are mixed, while those in Kompong Chnang and Siem Reap tend to be more segregated.)
> 
> Clearly there are commonalities between these stories. Vietnamese who happen to live on the water are in an ever tenuous position at the confluence of statelessness, a livelihood dependence on fishing, a lack of any legal claim to the places they reside, increasing state management of these formerly unregulated places, and of course a pervasive public sentiment which seeks to scrutinize the presence of ethnic Vietnamese who live in Cambodian territory.
> 
> Unlike evictions in urban settings, or of the rural poor, these evictions largely go unnoticed and without comment. NGOs do not flock to the cause of poor Vietnamese evictees. No colorful protests are made, no international media come to document their plight. People on Khmer radio don’t angrily demand justice. Academics working on evictions largely ignore them. Vietnamese who speak out do not become household names. In most cases they quietly agree to eviction orders and move on.
> 
> My aim of bringing up these small snippets – which of course are entirely lacking in complexity – is not to try and carve out Viet-Cambodians as the latest vulnerable group for NGOs or researchers to victimize (another group to add to Cambodia’s seemingly never ending list of “the vulnerable”). Rather, it is to draw attention to a manifestation of a central pivot of Cambodian politics which remains largely understudied and under-discussed – the posturing of Vietnamese as a territorial threat to the future of the Khmer community. My aim in bringing up this issue at a time when Cambodia is plagued by seemingly much larger problems is to draw attention to the way in which diverse issues within Cambodia continue to be articulated in relation to a deep suspicion and hatred of the Vietnamese. Cambodia is currently at a critical juncture leading up to the 2018 elections and while democracy, human rights, governance, and legitimacy will all be central aspects of both analysis and activism, few are willing to acknowledge how deeply anti-Vietnamese sentiment has saturated Cambodian politics.
> 
> *Everyone Is Entitled to a Little Fascism*
> 
> Comparing the colonial state and the post-colonial state, one of the key defying features of the latter is that the authority and sovereign right to brutally deal with unwanted populations deemed outside the political community is entrusted entirely to the post-colonial state. Small states such as Cambodia may be under enormous pressure to enter into bilateral and multilateral trade deals, which severely emasculate notions of sovereignty; they can be forced to engage in lengthy and vague programs of democracy building and good governance; they can have their entire bureaucracies built and crisscrossed with foreign NGOs, development experts, and foreign consultants; they can be under pressure to grant huge swathes of land to foreign investors; to re-create parts of the country as a large amusement park for the pleasure of foreign tourists; to celebrate wave after wave of foreign NGOs and humanitarians doing banal and ill thought out development projects; even in accepting unwanted refugees from bigger countries. But the one thing that can never be taken away is nationalism and the dream of sovereignty. Cambodia may be a poor, economically and politically marginalized state that has been colonized by the Thai, Vietnamese, and French (and the international community through NGOs and donors) but in the current system even small states can despotically rule over their territories and populations, needing only to cite sovereignty.
> 
> The colonial dream to resurrect an ancient culture in decline, to restore old territorial boundaries, to have absolute control of who is (and who is not) allowed to move across borders, and to restore political power to the legitimate Khmer ruling class is alive and well in modern day Cambodia. Although Cambodians are typically viewed within international media and academic research as victims — of the Khmer Rouge, of a kleptocratic regime, of land abuse, of gender inequality, and of climate change — Cambodia, just like any other real country, is also home to anti-immigrant populist movements, racism, and bigotry. And here is one of the most appealing things about ultra-nationalism — people may be illiterate and excluded from a decent education, from healthcare, from dignified work, from the spoils of kleptocracy, but the one thing everyone can engage in is nationalism. You do not need to be educated or part of the elite to join in hating Vietnamese.
> 
> Forests may fall, the landless may be increasing day by day, those abandoned by the state may engage in ever more precarious and dangerous labor, yet it consistently seems to be issues around immigration and removing foreign Vietnamese influence from government structures that public sentiment remains fixated upon. So pervasive and ubiquitous is the idea that Vietnam – and more specifically Vietnamese people – are the root cause of Cambodia’s woes that such a sentiment can be found among progressive NGOs, forest activists, local authorities, land activists, the rich, and the governing elite alike.
> 
> When the popular political analyst Kem Lay was tragically gunned down in Phnom Penh last month, bereaved onlookers, wary of police interfering with crucial evidence, attempted to stop an officer from moving the body. What was strange though was the angry crowd’s decision to scream “yuon” (a derogatory term for Vietnamese) at police, accusing them of being Vietnamese. How they could so quickly and unanimously decide – without any particularly compelling evidence – that the officer was Vietnamese solely on the basis that he was doing something seen as deeply threatening to a cherished Khmer hero says a lot about common ideas of the Vietnamese. Such an accusation coming from angry crowds is far from uncommon – during the 2014 protests, protestors at Freedom Park taunted security guards by calling them “yuon” for a similar reason (even though they were actually Khmer) – which in turn elicited a violent response. On more than one occasion such an accusation has resulted in group beatings – even killing the accused, or the ransacking of property for no other reason than the owners were Vietnamese.
> 
> Most disturbingly, it is not just angry crowds or protesters who hold such views. Suspicion – even outright hatred – of Vietnamese is not uncommon within activist circles and progressive NGOs. On multiple occasions I have witnessed Khmer NGO staff who work in organizations that are at the forefront of land, natural resource, and human rights issues engaging in tirades aimed at Vietnamese without being challenged. Or recently, during a trip to Prey Lang with forest activists, I was forced to endure a long tedious rant by a young forest activist with links to Mother Nature and part of Kem Ley’s “young political analyst group” about how the Vietnamese are the real cause of Cambodia’s mismanaged forests. Even at Politikocoffee, a weekly forum set up by young Cambodian liberals and bloggers, it is still almost impossible to have a conversation about the issue of the Vietnamese in Cambodia without evoking nationalist sentiments and strong emotions on Vietnamese “illegally crossing the border.”
> 
> The problem here is that ultra-nationalism has quietly colonized emerging opposition to the current regime. So entrenched is the idea that the current regime is a Vietnamese puppet (i.e. it is quintessentially opposed to Khmerness) that opposition to the Hun Sen regime and opposition to Vietnamese are too often one and the same thing. Cambodia’s swing to China — not to mention French colonialism, NGO colonialism, the role of China during the Khmer Rouge period, historic Thai invasions, and the fact that Cambodia actually gained land from the Champassak kingdom of southern Laos — are all ignored. Instead, a persistent political discourse draws a seemingly undeniable line between the loss of ancestral Khmer land (Kampuchea Krom land in the Vietnamese southern delta, Koh Tral island off the coast of Kampot, and more recently a much smaller area of contested land along the eastern border) and the post Khmer Rouge Vietnamese backed regime and more recent problems of corruption and natural resource mismanagement. This alluringly simple thesis seems always to be lurking beneath the surface of popular sentiment – why is Cambodia small? _Yuon!_ Why is Cambodia poor? _Yuon! _Why are forests and natural resource mismanaged? _Youn! _… Why do I have a stomach ache? _Yuon! _
> 
> *Do Vietnamese Lives Matter?*
> 
> There has been some English language media on the Cambodia National Rescue Party and particularly Sam Rainsy and Kem Sokha’s exploitation of anti–Vietnamese sentiment. But it is important to note that anti-Vietnamese sentiment goes well and truly beyond just the CNRP. Leader of the League for Democracy Party Khem Veasna (which hooked just over 1 percent of votes in the 2013 elections, to make it the fourth biggest party) is renowned for bizarre anti-immigrant rants (always directed solely at the yuon) that would make Donald Trump embarrassed. The recent rise of Soun Serey Ratha’s Khmer Power Party is similarly explicitly based around “kicking out the youn from Cambodia.” Even Som Sovanara — an exiled former RCAF soldier who has been calling for an overthrow of the military from Canada — always emphasizes the urgency of “freeing Cambodians from the Vietnamese puppet regime.”
> 
> There is nothing new about this – the persecution and violent scapegoating of Vietnamese has been the mainstay of Cambodian politics since the Lon Nol regime in the 1970s. The violent massacres of Viet Cambodians in 1970 at the hands of Lon Nol — which Cambodians have almost entirely managed to collectively forget — were remarkable for the fact that General Lon Nol was able to exploit anti-Vietnamese sentiment to lessen mass resentment over the fact that for the first time in 1,000 years the beloved monarchy had been done away with. So too, new research — and especially new evidence appearing at the Khmer Rouge tribunal — is showing the Khmer Rouge regime not just as a paranoid self-destructive killing machine, but a regime whose ultimate downfall and mass killings resulted from the deeply biopolitical goal of systematically eliminating Vietnamessness from the Cambodian political community. Not a single Vietnamese who stayed in Cambodia during the Democratic Kampuchea regime is thought to have survived and it is for this reason that the term “genocide” is being used in relations to the regime’s purging of the Vietnamese.
> 
> It is clear though that Cambodian public sentiment – which has been supported through international media – is struggling to acknowledge the suffering of non-Khmer groups during this time and the role that ultra-nationalism played in perpetuating violence. That people can still get away with claiming that the Khmer Rouge’s savagery was somehow due to Vietnamese infiltration is absurd – not only because this is the very discourse that the KR themselves used to violently weed out “foreign elements,” but because it totally disavows violence against Vietnamese.
> 
> Contrary to popular sentiment, it could also be argued that the 1990s were an important era which normalized marginalization and hatred of Vietnamese in Cambodian politics. A popular trope of opposition politicians and political analysts is that the post KR regime ushered in a mass immigration of Vietnamese under the tutelage of first the Vietnamese army and then the Hun Sen regime. Here is not the place to debate these claims – which are typically accompanied with exaggeration, heady emotions, nationalistic fervor, and straight out racism (see here, though, for a good discussion). Like most issues in Cambodia, Hun Sen’s CPP had a political interest in deferring and failing to promote any sensible discussions or policies on the Vietnamese in Cambodia, which essentially allowed all those opposed to the CPP to monopolize the issue. Yet even then a number of laws were progressively released that increasingly excluded Vietnamese Cambodians and made them stateless and disenfranchised. There were also numerous state led attempts to “crack down” on Vietnamese immigration in and around Phnon Penh, which merely resulted in more evictions of Vietnamese Cambodians.
> 
> In the chaos and violence of the ‘90s, as the UN forces (UNTAC) clumsily tried to stitch together a peace agreement and set Cambodia on its democratic experiment, violence toward Vietnamese and their political exclusion became normalized amidst increasingly extremist anti-Vietnamese views. Not only the Khmer Rouge, but other non-government forces, such as FUNCINPEC and the KPLNF, were virulently anti-Vietnamese. The 1993 Khmer Rouge massacre of 33 Vietnamese in Siem Reap’s Chong Kneas was not only remarkable for its brutality (the killing of unarmed men, women, and children) but for the fact that none of the political factions demonstrated any sympathy for the victims and could even come out calling for a stop to Vietnamese immigration in the days after (even though all the victims were born in Cambodia). So too a vicious attack on a Vietnamese floating village in Kompong Chnang as late as 1998 never saw any justice for the victims of the massacre (even though the perpetrators publicly acknowledged their involvement – they are now in the RCAF) and the event has largely been forgotten by the public. Such attacks on Vietnamese were common throughout the 1990s. Just in 1992 and 1993, 130 Vietnamese were killed, and 75 seriously injured in racially targeted attacks across Cambodia (not all of these were done on the part of the Khmer Rouge). Compare this to the 1997 attack on Sam Rainsy’s Khmer National Party rally, which resulted in the deaths between 16 and 20 people and which has been immortalized in public discourse.
> 
> Famed political analyst and independent researcher Kem Lay, who was tragically shot dead in central Phnom Penh last month, is perhaps a good measure of contemporary political views toward Vietnamese in Cambodia. Kem Lay’s analyses, which were frequently broadcast on _Radio Free Asia_ and _Voice of America,_ were remarkable for the fact that they could link almost any issue to the Vietnamese – and in fact it was rare for Kem Lay not to bring up the Vietnamese in one of his talks. Although brave, straight to the point, and refreshingly dismissive of the type of bureaucratic and governmental approaches that usually dominate discussions of major problems in Cambodia, his research was hardly structured or critical. In some cases he would simply wander around the Tonle Sap or Phnom Penh’s Chbar Apov, taking note of Vietnamese speakers as if it were self-evident they are illegally residing in Cambodia and should be deported. He often talked of Vietnamese immigration as “a disease” inflicting Cambodians. His five point thesis on how the Vietnamese are destroying Cambodia was a tired and factually incorrect piece that only stirred up racists myths. His 100 Day Campaign was similarly structured around encouraging Cambodians to observe and record instances of Vietnamese “colonizing Cambodia.” His fables and village talks were full of subtle – yet obvious to Khmer speakers – references to Vietnam trying to swallow up Cambodia and in this way he perpetuated and exploited a widespread ignorance toward the Vietnamese (and more broadly a misconception about the contemporary relationship between Vietnamese and Cambodia).
> 
> That his research legacy is now being held up an example to Cambodian youth is extremely disturbing and suggests it will be a long time before more reasonable and sensible conversations about the issue can be publicly held. It is also noticeable that the English media has entirely failed to pick up not just on the nuances of his legacy but his fairly blatant anti-Vietnamese obsession. Meanwhile popular radio stations such as _Radio Free Asia_ and _Voice of Democracy_ blatantly promote his anti-Vietnamese views, although the increasing popularity of more measured analysts such as Meas Ny is a positive sign.
> 
> Returning back to the snippets of Vietnamese evictions this essay started with, it also has to be questioned to what degree NGOs, donors, and foreign consultants and experts — who are so present in Cambodia — have also ignored the issue of Vietnamese marginalization. During the UNTAC period, the UN was not only logistically unable to provide protection to the Vietnamese but also unwilling to politically tackle anti-Vietnamese violence. More recently there has been a deafening silence on the part of large NGOs and donors who have shown a willingness to involve themselves in almost every aspect of Cambodia’s development, from how rural people defecate to what they think of climate change.
> 
> Take the above mentioned evictions around the Tonle Sap and Mekong. Cambodia’s leading human rights NGOs — CCHR, LICHADO, and ADHOC — have been eerily quiet on all of these evictions. For most NGOs and the international development community operating in Cambodia, the problems facing Cambodia’s stateless Vietnamese — and the very real possibility of violence toward them — do not register as an issue at all. Yet as political analyst Ou Virak has recently pointed out, as one of the few people to publicly criticize anti-Vietnamese sentiment in Cambodian politics, “anti-Vietnamese theories” are popular “among the people, and everyone knows it.”
> 
> There are obvious and increasing tensions leading up to the 2018 elections in Cambodia. It is more than likely the CPP regime will be unable to secure the mass patronage of voters that it needs to win an election. The question is how it will react? It is hard not to see political killings such as that of Kem Ley as a clear message to the populace that fear and violence remain as important mechanisms of control. The recent Kafkeresque use of courts and the law to suppress dissent also demonstrates the CPPs continual dependence on the use of state apparatuses to stifle opposition. There are also disturbing indicators that the RCAF could be employed to “protect against” what it deems as a threat to the government and CPP – which certainly would not be unprecedented.
> 
> The other risk that no one talks about, though, is that increasing dissatisfaction and opposition to the regime will be expressed through anti- Vietnamese rhetoric – as it has been in every single election since 1993. That no one is willing to stand up for scapegoated Vietnamese — and that an anti-Vietnamese fascist-like movement has spread through Facebook and online media, emboldened by a new generation of Khmer activists — is indicative of future violence. With the CNRP already supporting members to scrutinize polling stations for non-Khmers, and different groups organizing for ways to ensure that “truckloads of Vietnamese” do not come to illegally vote (popularly seen as the most likely way the CPP will rig the vote), it seems more than likely that prejudices will flare during the election period and the Vietnamese are likely to bear the brunt.
> 
> The sad tragedy is that in fact hundreds of thousands of Viet Cambodians are already disenfranchised and with such limited political space to discuss the issue, any fair and just resolution remains far off in the future. Another important question is what would happen to Viet Cambodians if the CNRP did get into power. Would it be pressured into draconian and extreme measures to exclude Vietnamese Cambodians? Nearby Myanmar should be seen as a warning. What has happened to the Rohingya is a clear example of what happens when the state exploits fascisms for political gain – although it would not be for the first time that this has happened in Cambodia.
> 
> _Tim Frewer is a researcher and Ph.D. candidate at the University of Sydney who has been working and researching in Cambodia over the last decade._



Legacy of Khmer Rouge is such a blight still on Cambodia.

I know large numbers become a statistic and single people are a tragedy (and its unfair) but they snuffed out this great singer, I can never forgive them!:

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## Carlosa

William Hung said:


> Loans help? Loan/credit line can be the end game. I already explained, the lack of loan ended the Sigma plan. VN at the last minute had to reallocate funds from Sigma plan for other stuff so Damen was asked to offer the Sigma on credit/loan and Damen, in turn, asked the Dutch govt to back the loan. Damen couldn’t arranged it so VN had no choice but to cancel the Sigma plan. So loan or no loan can be the deal breaker, its wrong to say “loans *help*, but...”.



My point is if there is any particular reason why the FREMM would be more desirable since it is a different class of ship. Of course I understand the value of having a loan, that's why I said, other than the loan.



William Hung said:


> Why do you think FREMM is expensive? Last year Italy added a contract for 2 FREMM for $800 million. Do you know how much Sigma 10514 cost to say FREMM is expensive? Or how much did the last ordered pair of VN Gepard cost?.



Because I read in Wiki that the FREMM for France was 670 million Euros. Do you have a source for the 2 Italian FREMM frigates for that cost? Wiki has a price for them for 580 million Euros (each) and one for Morocco at 470 million Euros and they show the sources for all 3 prices. Your price looks too low for a European frigate of that class.



William Hung said:


> You ignored the fact that french FREMM can be fitted with 16 very very long range land attack cruise missiles, in addition to the said SAM. Damen Sigma cannot compare to FREMM, they are in different class. If Sigma is fitted with all the toys that FREMM has, maybe Sigma will capsize during a 1 degree turn. And VN dont need/cant afford all the toys that are fitted on the French/Italian version.



I know about that, that's why I said that it needs to be customised for Vietnam.


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## hoangsa74

Lol. The discussion got carried away too...far with that fremm thing. The export price for that fremm ship with armaments n spare parts has to be 1.5 to 2 bil usd. Just focus on the coast guard n build/assemble more ships to escort viet fishermen. With the fishing industry is in serious trouble now due to dead fishes. Vn is in deep trouble if she can't supply her local markets with fish. Let alone export the fish to earn dollars to buy weapons. 
The fremm won't change the tide of battle in the scs. Just focus on a large quantity of coastguard. Vn has better chance of winning the game of naval militalia against the chinese than trying to confront the chinese navy n airforce; which vn has Zero chance of winning


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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Legacy of Khmer Rouge is such a blight still on Cambodia.
> 
> I know large numbers become a statistic and single people are a tragedy (and its unfair) but they snuffed out this great singer, I can never forgive them!:



I was in Cambodia earlier this year and I got into talking to a taxi driver about the subject.

Why do you guys hate the Vietnamese? They saved the country from the Khmer Rouge. They don't accept that, they make all sort of excuses to deny that Vietnam helped them. Well, if there is another Khmer Rouge again, Vietnam should not help them.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> They don't accept that, they make all sort of excuses to deny that Vietnam helped them. Well, if there is another Khmer Rouge again, Vietnam should not help them.



I read even much worse on some Cambodia nationalist forums and I am never going back.

Anti-Vietnam sentiment is actually one of the biggest reasons why Khmer rouge got to power and stayed there even when they started butchering their own people in massive numbers.

Its not like Cambodians had some huge present direct link to the old Khmer - Champa rivalry....I mean it took europeans to rediscover their khmer heritage through the temple rediscovery etc.

In a way Khmer rouge crystallied something very wrong in Cambodian society....a big hatred of foreigners (Viets and Thais happen to be on either side and thus on receiving end) and superiority complex - without mitigating it with the culture and philosophy present during ancient Khmer dynasties. This red, anti-cultural fervor was quite ethnic and racially based....against all principles of the communist theory. But dont tell the cambodians that!

This same ingrate nature is found in many BD people esp on this forum. Sad!

Anyways enough off topic! Lets get back to Vietnam defence!

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## Carlosa

*Putin: Russia Supports China’s Stance on South China Sea*
*http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-supports-chinas-stance-south-china-sea/ri16285
*
HANGZHOU (Sputnik) – Russia supports China’s stance on the South China Sea court dispute and opposes any third-party interference, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday.

"Chairman Xi Jinping and I have developed very trusting, I would say friendly, relations. But he never – I want to emphasize this – never approached me requesting to somehow comment, somehow intervene in the matter," Putin told reporters.

"We of course have our own opinion on this matter. It is that, first of all, we do not interfere and we believe that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues. The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive," he added.

On July 12, the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled that Beijing has no legal basis to claim historic rights to South China Sea resources and has violated the sovereign rights of the Philippines in the country's exclusive economic zone. The ruling came after Manila filed a case in January 2013 accusing Beijing of violating the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

"We stand in solidarity and support of China's position on this issue – not to recognize the decision of this court… This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue," Putin stressed.

Beijing’s territorial claims to the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, which are believed to be rich in oil and gas reserves, run counter to those of the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and Vietnam.



Nilgiri said:


> I read even much worse on some Cambodia nationalist forums and I am never going back.
> 
> Anti-Vietnam sentiment is actually one of the biggest reasons why Khmer rouge got to power and stayed there even when they started butchering their own people in massive numbers.
> 
> Its not like Cambodians had some huge present direct link to the old Khmer - Champa rivalry....I mean it took europeans to rediscover their khmer heritage through the temple rediscovery etc.
> 
> In a way Khmer rouge crystallied something very wrong in Cambodian society....a big hatred of foreigners (Viets and Thais happen to be on either side and thus on receiving end) and superiority complex - without mitigating it with the culture and philosophy present during ancient Khmer dynasties. This red, anti-cultural fervor was quite ethnic and racially based....against all principles of the communist theory. But dont tell the cambodians that!
> 
> This same ingrate nature is found in many BD people esp on this forum. Sad!
> 
> Anyways enough off topic! Lets get back to Vietnam defence!



Very true and anyway, this relates to Vietnam's defense since it is part of the Vietnamese geopolitical situation.

In that region it seems to be normal to hate each other. The Thais also hate the Cambodians and Burmese. Actually, Thailand and China were the only 2 countries to support the Khmer Rouge.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> Thailand and China were the only 2 countries to support the Khmer Rouge.



Yes they did so partially under the Aegis of the US as well....given the larger effects of the Sino-Soviet split and given the Viets were firmly in the Soviet camp.

Thailand only really stepped it up once Viets kicked pol pot out...with pol pot and his goons given sanctuary in Thailand border areas with Cambodia +the Thai - Viet border skirmishes and so on resulting because of this.

I read a long detailed book on this.....Indo-China in cold war fascinates me. The somewhat overlooked underbelly of the cold war.....everyone only tends to know the Vietnam war a little bit and thats about it.

Viet people seem to be reviled by all their neighbours in different degrees...and I never quite understood why till I read more about these neighbours lol. Thats why I think Vietnam - India is a good alliance in more underlying ways than one can gleam from the surface hehe.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Yes they did so partially under the Aegis of the US as well....given the larger effects of the Sino-Soviet split and given the Viets were firmly in the Soviet camp.
> 
> Thailand only really stepped it up once Viets kicked pol pot out...with pol pot and his goons given sanctuary in Thailand border areas with Cambodia +the Thai - Viet border skirmishes and so on resulting because of this.
> 
> I read a long detailed book on this.....Indo-China in cold war fascinates me. The somewhat overlooked underbelly of the cold war.....everyone only tends to know the Vietnam war a little bit and thats about it.
> 
> Viet people seem to be reviled by all their neighbours in different degrees...and I never quite understood why till I read more about these neighbours lol. Thats why I think Vietnam - India is a good alliance in more underlying ways than one can gleam from the surface hehe.



Very true and definitely Vietnam and India make good allies, cheers to that

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## William Hung

Carlosa said:


> *Putin: Russia Supports China’s Stance on South China Sea*
> *http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-supports-chinas-stance-south-china-sea/ri16285
> *
> HANGZHOU (Sputnik) – Russia supports China’s stance on the South China Sea court dispute and opposes any third-party interference, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday.
> 
> "Chairman Xi Jinping and I have developed very trusting, I would say friendly, relations. But he never – I want to emphasize this – never approached me requesting to somehow comment, somehow intervene in the matter," Putin told reporters.
> 
> "We of course have our own opinion on this matter. It is that, first of all, we do not interfere and we believe that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues. The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive," he added.
> 
> On July 12, the Hague-based Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled that Beijing has no legal basis to claim historic rights to South China Sea resources and has violated the sovereign rights of the Philippines in the country's exclusive economic zone. The ruling came after Manila filed a case in January 2013 accusing Beijing of violating the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> "We stand in solidarity and support of China's position on this issue – not to recognize the decision of this court… This is not a political position, but purely legal. It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties. As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there. How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China's position on this issue," Putin stressed.
> 
> Beijing’s territorial claims to the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, which are believed to be rich in oil and gas reserves, run counter to those of the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and Vietnam.



This is too predictable, anyone with half sense could foresee this long time ago. I remember a long time ago some member Thao or something who tried to fight me because I said something like this and they couldn’t accept the new reality.


Note that this is not just a “neutral” stance like Russia always had, but it is now a stance that aligns with China and opposite to Vietnam’s own stance.




> But he never – I want to emphasize this – never approached me requesting to somehow comment, somehow intervene in the matter," Putin told reporters.



It’s kind of funny how he made this pre-emptive statement...which kind of reveals what went on behind the scene and now he is feeling insecured about it...cos now he is no longer in the position of the “strongman” leader he used to paint himself to be.



Carlosa said:


> My point is if there is any particular reason why the FREMM would be more desirable since it is a different class of ship. Of course I understand the value of having a loan, that's why I said, other than the loan.
> 
> 
> 
> Because I read in Wiki that the FREMM for France was 670 million Euros. Do you have a source for the 2 Italian FREMM frigates for that cost? Wiki has a price for them for 580 million Euros (each) and one for Morocco at 470 million Euros and they show the sources for all 3 prices. Your price looks too low for a European frigate of that class.
> 
> 
> 
> I know about that, that's why I said that it needs to be customised for Vietnam.



I didn’t bothered checking wiki because it can be outdated or unreliable. The latest Italian order is still fresh news you can google it. Its around $800 million, and this is only last year so inflation is taken accounted. Note that the cost of the earlier FREMM often quoted usually includes the development cost. You might also want to check the French-Greek or French-Eqypt FREMM negotiation to see how flexible the French are in terms of financial arrangement and customer requests.


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## patu

Carlosa said:


> What I had read is that the tot issue was resolved. Yes, this is a rumor, but this is what the Russians think, somebody gave a copy of the missile to China according to them and they feel is Indonesia under chinese pressure. Even if the Russians were to have proof, they are not going to come out in public with this and make Indonesia lose face, but this is what they think. I had mentioned this one time to madokafc and she didn't say a word, that tells me that she probably knows something about it, but I'm not sure.


The problem of the c705 tot process was about the quantity of the c705 that used to be buy by Indonesian; we want less and chiness want more, that all!

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> What is the reason?





Farhan Bohra said:


> I dont because of which reason?


Project 17A is still on the paper and not a single ship has been constructed yet. Its predecessor - Project 17 Shivalik - only has 3 ships in its class.

Vietnam tends to choose ship design that has been proven in reality, like at least 10 years of operation without major incident. The lesson from choosing unproven design (BPS-500 missile boat) has delayed several attempts to acquire new ship design (like KBO-2000 frigate). That's why we chose the 11661 Gepard instead of 20382 Tigr. The Gepard is older and less capable, but it has operated for years before the Tigr was born.

Another factor is cost. I read that the expected price for P-17A is about US$ 1,1 billion and that's for the Indian Navy, not foreign customer. Meanwhile, FREMM cost around 753 million and De Zeven Provincien is 675 million, and I doubt that the price would go higher than 50% for a foreign customer.

That might be the reasons to explain why P-17A might get no chance against European competitors.



William Hung said:


> This is too predictable, anyone with half sense could foresee this long time ago. I remember a long time ago some member Thao or something who tried to fight me because I said something like this and they couldn’t accept the new reality.


Meh. Do remember that Vietnam also did not accept the PCA ruling.

And you need to read the original Russian statements to understand Putin's words. He statement or Russia Federation's stance is not against Vietnam.

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## William Hung

Silent Knight said:


> Meh. Do remember that Vietnam also did not accept the PCA ruling.



That’s wrong, VN have never said it do not accept the PCA ruling. Source?

When the ruling was issued, VN issue the statement that it welcomed the ruling but can’t comment on the specifics as it needs time to look into the ruling in more details.




> And you need to read the original Russian statements to understand Putin's words. He statement or Russia Federation's stance is not against Vietnam.



His words and stance is not targetted against VN but it is contradictory to Vietnam’s own stance. e.g. Russia had already once said the SCS should be dealt with bilaterally and non-claimants need to stay out (which is contrary to VN’s stance) and the VN Foreign Ministry issued a statement saying that it s wrong, all parties has both a right and obligation to be involved since SCS has international water.


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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> That’s wrong, VN have never said it do not accept the PCA ruling. Source?
> 
> When the ruling was issued, VN issue the statement that it welcomed the ruling but can’t comment on the specifics as it needs time to look into the ruling in more details.
> 
> His words and stance is not targetted against VN but it is contradictory to Vietnam’s own stance. e.g. Russia had already once said the SCS should be dealt with bilaterally and non-claimants need to stay out (which is contrary to VN’s stance) and the VN Foreign Ministry issued a statement saying that it s wrong, all parties has both a right and obligation to be involved since SCS has international water.


Accepting the ruling = accepting that Vietnam would have to give up most of its islands and reefs in the Spratly Islands. Did you take a look at the area which Philippines brought to the court?

And yes, Russia's stance might, I repeat: MIGHT, be contradictory to Vietnam's because they have their own national interests. The Russian officials statements might be interpreted in many ways and most of the times bent under Western and/or Vietnamese media (which just repeats what the Western media said).

But is it a betrayal like many Vietnamese screaming these days? I think not.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I was in Cambodia earlier this year and I got into talking to a taxi driver about the subject.
> 
> Why do you guys hate the Vietnamese? They saved the country from the Khmer Rouge. They don't accept that, they make all sort of excuses to deny that Vietnam helped them. Well, if there is another Khmer Rouge again, Vietnam should not help them.


No, we should not help them out again from the abyss. Let them die. The world does not care, why should we care? Last time, Vietnam army launched invasion, overthrowing the Khmer Rouge regime because the situation had become unbearable. With support from China, they raided our borders killing our people. In their mass killing campaign they targeted especially the viet ethics in Canbodia, sparing nobody, no elders, no women, no children, no babies.

No, we should not save them. Let them die. The only thing we should is sending in paratroopers that would evaluate our people. We must not give the Chinese another excuse to launch another invasion of Vietnam.

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## Silent Knight

Overthrowing the Khmer Rouge regime was necessary, otherwise they'll keep attacking our borders and massacre our civilians. The motto was "Giúp bạn cũng là giúp mình" (translit. Help our friends as well as help ourselves).

That's also the reason why we had to stay that long in Cambodia. To build a decent government that can purge the remnant of Khmer Rouge. But the outside world saw that as an unjustified invasion and occupation.

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## William Hung

Silent Knight said:


> Accepting the ruling = accepting that Vietnam would have to give up most of its islands and reefs in the Spratly Islands. Did you take a look at the area which Philippines brought to the court?



Again, can you provide the source when VN said it *“did not accept the PCA ruling”*? On the other hand, I can provide the source direct from the FM forwhat I said previously.

So unless you can provide the source where Vietnam said “it did not accept the PCA ruling”, then you are spreading misinformation.




> And yes, Russia's stance might, I repeat: MIGHT, be contradictory to Vietnam's because they have their own national interests. The Russian officials statements might be interpreted in many ways and most of the times bent under Western and/or Vietnamese media (which just repeats what the Western media said).
> 
> But is it a betrayal like many Vietnamese screaming these days? I think not.



You are overeacting here. Thats exactly what I meant, Russia has its own self-interest, and if Russia’s self-interest happen to align with a Chinese political stance or contradictory to VN’s own stance, Russia would choose its own self-interest over VN’s interest. That is common sense and proven, not sure why you are overeacting.


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## hoangsa74

William Hung said:


> Again, can you provide the source when VN said it *“did not accept the PCA ruling”*? On the other hand, I can provide the source direct from the FM forwhat I said previously.
> 
> So unless you can provide the source where Vietnam said “it did not accept the PCA ruling”, then you are spreading misinformation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are overeacting here. Thats exactly what I meant, Russia has its own self-interest, and if Russia’s self-interest happen to align with a Chinese political stance or contradictory to VN’s own stance, Russia would choose its own self-interest over VN’s interest. That is common sense and proven, *not sure why you are overeacting*.


You're talking to a pro-russki guy that supports Ukrainian separatists and Russian's take over of crimea. I hope he's not stupid enough to advocate separatist movement in Vietnam that is advocated by china


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Project 17A is still on the paper and not a single ship has been constructed yet. Its predecessor - Project 17 Shivalik - only has 3 ships in its class.
> 
> Vietnam tends to choose ship design that has been proven in reality, like at least 10 years of operation without major incident. The lesson from choosing unproven design (BPS-500 missile boat) has delayed several attempts to acquire new ship design (like KBO-2000 frigate). That's why we chose the 11661 Gepard instead of 20382 Tigr. The Gepard is older and less capable, but it has operated for years before the Tigr was born.
> 
> Another factor is cost. I read that the expected price for P-17A is about US$ 1,1 billion and that's for the Indian Navy, not foreign customer. Meanwhile, FREMM cost around 753 million and De Zeven Provincien is 675 million, and I doubt that the price would go higher than 50% for a foreign customer.
> 
> That might be the reasons to explain why P-17A might get no chance against European competitors.
> 
> 
> .


$700 millions a Fremm sounds good to me. Not over a billion or more if we theoretically go for Aegis destroyer. Using domestic components and building the hull in our shipyard would reduce the cost further. Probably to $500 millions. Voila, air defense destroyer is not out of reach as may some argue.


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## Aqsuperman

Well i can say that this guy is blind, partially deaf and have a hard time counting subject and understanding a sentence. Probably because American reach climax on his face so much that some of his senses has become dysfunctional.



hoangsa74 said:


> ou cumback with nothing but a bunch of uneducated cummie comments and "analysis". Now you even use an analogy of a U.S UAV parked on a tarmac and compare it with an RC Toy of yours parked in a tiny little room. I don't believe any third worlder like u have ever seen a square of runway tarmac to even use that to compare with a square of a floor tile, LOL.



Yeah and you smelly and cummy explanation has conveniently dodge the main question. Seem you like to assume size, why dont you made assumption of that UAV wingspan ? "Third world" ? Pfff oh god i mean seriously who the fack do you think you are ? You and your ancestor just happen to cling to helicopter, which you may have fall and hit your head pretty hard, then eat pension from the States. A bit of money from people that consider you as a disease and you think you are "First World" ? Well no wonder you and your "First World" citizen have to purchase plastic rifle to retake this "Third Word" country for 40 years without any future in sight.



hoangsa74 said:


> I already look at your photos and video. That thing that you guys claim to be a HALE UAV is too tiny, my cummie friend. Your total wingspan is about 10-15 pieces of floor tiles across and that totaled up to be no more than 15 feet. 15 feet is LESS THAN 5 meters my friend, sorry to expose your b.s. I already said, this is an international forum, not your usual vit konk forum where you throw out propaganda to feel good among yourselves. LOL.



Every time you open that mouth, i hope that you face made of something really really really REALLY thick ? Pff international forum ? Oh since when international forum is where you can use slang like "VC", "cummie" and directly insult people and country ? You double standard behavior make you look more like a clumsy animal than a human that try to slide through opposition by jumping from standard to standard to fit your situations. But now let see that your eyes still working or not, which i fear it true since you cant count. If that this picture wont help then you should go to a doctor.







Now use that eyes full of cum of your and count the brick from the right wheel to the pillar on the top left . if you eyes that pitiful and cant even spot a bricks then well good luck with the examination. Even a kid can say its a way lot more than 5 brick. Now what do you say ? Do remember that you dont use 10x10 brick for your house then dont "assume" that this place use 30x30 unless you got money to burn. 



hoangsa74 said:


> Countries with strong industrial base have to go through great length to be able to make a MALE UAV then they move up to HALE UAV. Shitnam of yours has little to no industrial capabilities and now you're telling the world that you jump out of no where and produce a HALE UAV like you're claiming now? You don't even have any wind tunnel to test your flying rc toy or any of your "UFO"; lol. Just look at that p.o.s again and see if it's even anywhere close to the scale of the Reaper?



No its no pop out of nowhere, dip shit. Your ear just full of cum so that you can hear that that this is joint project and testing between Belgium and Vietnam. Not to mention the Magic Eye project with Sweden and the long forgotten M-400 UAV. All are developed for years and sources are on the Internet, you just cant read and ignorance to everything and that you dont line that is all. Your lack of knowledge yet you pretend be in dept sound really retarded so you better put a leash on it or learn to use google a bit . Oh maybe we have to invite you to every testing and assembling in domestic and international ground so that you can control your keyboard with BRAIN ? Or we can say that "Mày là cái thá gì mà ai làm gì cũng phải thông báo mày ?" In fact why dont you proclaim yourself as a chief F-35 pilot since you are way confident in it ability to single - hanedly turn the balance of power in the region ? 



hoangsa74 said:


> Maybe the typical cummie like you can only afford a scooter to go around that's why your head gets bombarded with u.v ray to think straight?



Yeah "international forum" eh ? And thought that typical RVN like you ride in a car while kneeling next to American and take his cum whenever he see fit. After that he throw you some bucks to your face so that you can go around bragging about how you can use that money to "screw beautiful girl" which i find hilarious since of all the thing you can proclaim, use money on whore is the way you use to show your wealth. have fun with your pathetic life, US cumdump.

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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> Again, can you provide the source when VN said it *“did not accept the PCA ruling”*? On the other hand, I can provide the source direct from the FM forwhat I said previously.
> 
> So unless you can provide the source where Vietnam said “it did not accept the PCA ruling”, then you are spreading misinformation.
> 
> You are overeacting here. Thats exactly what I meant, Russia has its own self-interest, and if Russia’s self-interest happen to align with a Chinese political stance or contradictory to VN’s own stance, Russia would choose its own self-interest over VN’s interest. That is common sense and proven, not sure why you are overeacting.


The FM didn't say Vietnam would accept the PCA ruling either, am I right? We're welcome the ruling, but we don't and won't response to the verdict. Vietnamese FM won't straight up deny the ruling, but given its condition and verdict, do you seriously think that Vietnam would accept that?

I'm not overreacting at all, I'd like to give more clarification for the triangle relationship. That's all.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And for the butthurt RVN boy, well, the boy would rather see Vietnam being invaded and ruled by China than being under the control of those who kicked his ***. So yeah, keep crying to your master and polishing their nails, butthurt boy.


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## Viet

World News | Wed Sep 7, 2016 1:41pm EDT
*Japan to provide patrol ships to Vietnam amid maritime row with China*






_An aerial view shows Japan Coast Guard patrol ship, fishing boats from Taiwan and Taiwan's Coast Guard vessel sailing side by side near the disputed islands in the East China Sea, known as Senkaku in Japan, Diaoyu in China and Tiaoyutai in Taiwan, in this photo taken by... REUTERS/Kyodo _


The Japanese government said on Wednesday it is ready to provide Vietnam with new patrol ships, in its latest step to boost the maritime law-enforcement capabilities of countries locked in territorial rows with China.

On Tuesday, Japan agreed to provide two large patrol ships and lend up to five used surveillance aircraft to the Philippines, another country at odds with China over sovereignty issues in the South China Sea.

Japan itself has been at loggerheads with China over a group of tiny, uninhabited East China Sea islets.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe told his Vietnamese counterpart, Nguyen Xuan Phuc, of Tokyo's intention in their meeting on the sidelines of ASEAN-related meetings in Vientiane.

Japan has already provided six patrol ships to Vietnam, but they were all used ones, a Japanese foreign ministry official said, adding that details such as the timing of the delivery and the number of ships to be provided have yet to be fixed.

Japan plans to extend a low-interest loan under its official development assistance program to Vietnam to facilitate the acquisition.

China has laid claim to almost all of the South China Sea, where about $5 trillion worth of seaborne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims in the sea believed to have rich deposits of oil and gas.

A court of arbitration in The Hague in July said China's claims to the waterway were invalid, after a case was brought by the Philippines. Beijing has refused to recognize the ruling.

(Reporting by Kiyoshi Takenaka; Editing by Hugh Lawson)

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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Well i can say that this guy is blind, partially deaf and have a hard time counting subject and understanding a sentence. Probably because American reach climax on his face so much that some of his senses has become dysfunctional.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and you smelly and cummy explanation has conveniently dodge the main question. Seem you like to assume size, why dont you made assumption of that UAV wingspan ? "Third world" ? Pfff oh god i mean seriously who the fack do you think you are ? You and your ancestor just happen to cling to helicopter, which you may have fall and hit your head pretty hard, then eat pension from the States. A bit of money from people that consider you as a disease and you think you are "First World" ? Well no wonder you and your "First World" citizen have to purchase plastic rifle to retake this "Third Word" country for 40 years without any future in sight.
> 
> 
> 
> Every time you open that mouth, i hope that you face made of something really really really REALLY thick ? Pff international forum ? Oh since when international forum is where you can use slang like "VC", "cummie" and directly insult people and country ? You double standard behavior make you look more like a clumsy animal than a human that try to slide through opposition by jumping from standard to standard to fit your situations. But now let see that your eyes still working or not, which i fear it true since you cant count. If that this picture wont help then you should go to a doctor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now use that eyes full of cum of your and count the brick from the right wheel to the pillar on the top left . if you eyes that pitiful and cant even spot a bricks then well good luck with the examination. Even a kid can say its a way lot more than 5 brick. Now what do you say ? Do remember that you dont use 10x10 brick for your house then dont "assume" that this place use 30x30 unless you got money to burn.
> 
> 
> 
> No its no pop out of nowhere, dip shit. Your ear just full of cum so that you can hear that that this is joint project and testing between Belgium and Vietnam. Not to mention the Magic Eye project with Sweden and the long forgotten M-400 UAV. All are developed for years and sources are on the Internet, you just cant read and ignorance to everything and that you dont line that is all. Your lack of knowledge yet you pretend be in dept sound really retarded so you better put a leash on it or learn to use google a bit . Oh maybe we have to invite you to every testing and assembling in domestic and international ground so that you can control your keyboard with BRAIN ? Or we can say that "Mày là cái thá gì mà ai làm gì cũng phải thông báo mày ?" In fact why dont you proclaim yourself as a chief F-35 pilot since you are way confident in it ability to single - hanedly turn the balance of power in the region ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah "international forum" eh ? And thought that typical RVN like you ride in a car while kneeling next to American and take his cum whenever he see fit. After that he throw you some bucks to your face so that you can go around bragging about how you can use that money to "screw beautiful girl" which i find hilarious since of all the thing you can proclaim, use money on whore is the way you use to show your wealth. have fun with your pathetic life, US cumdump.


Got mad, third-world scooter man? lol

The view from the back of that p.o.s you guys claim to be a HALE UAV is even worse than even the frontal previous pic in the video. Damn, that thing is definitely an rc toy, scooter boy. That thing is not 72 feet in wingspan, scooter boy; it is at best 15 feet with one feet per brick. That thing is so tiny and weak; how dare you third-world scooters even compare it to something like the Reaper? What a JOKE. Damn, *I have seen students over here build better planes than that p.o.s your scooter phd, scientists, and engineers put together*. That thing is so weak, just look at its pathetic landing gears and wings. Those wings will break apart the moment you put it to test in the wind tunnel. Oops, you scooter boy don't have wind tunnel yet, lol. Please, don't even bother mentioning your previous rc toys (that you guys claim to be UAV); you will make the rest of PDFers laugh.

At the end of the day, I drive around in a car, hold U.S Passport, have medical insurance coverage, live in a house, have money to screw beautiful women if I want to. You otoh, hop around miserably in a scooter and sweat all day, hold shitnam passport that got denied visa entry by every country, no medical insurance coverage, live in a mud hut or tube house, have no disposable income to shop for anything including women. I enjoy wayyyyyyyyy higher living standard than you third-world scooter boy and that's all it matters.


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Project 17A is still on the paper and not a single ship has been constructed yet. Its predecessor - Project 17 Shivalik - only has 3 ships in its class.
> 
> Vietnam tends to choose ship design that has been proven in reality, like at least 10 years of operation without major incident. The lesson from choosing unproven design (BPS-500 missile boat) has delayed several attempts to acquire new ship design (like KBO-2000 frigate). That's why we chose the 11661 Gepard instead of 20382 Tigr. The Gepard is older and less capable, but it has operated for years before the Tigr was born.
> 
> Another factor is cost. I read that the expected price for P-17A is about US$ 1,1 billion and that's for the Indian Navy, not foreign customer. Meanwhile, FREMM cost around 753 million and De Zeven Provincien is 675 million, and I doubt that the price would go higher than 50% for a foreign customer.
> 
> That might be the reasons to explain why P-17A might get no chance against European competitors.
> 
> 
> Meh. Do remember that Vietnam also did not accept the PCA ruling.
> 
> And you need to read the original Russian statements to understand Putin's words. He statement or Russia Federation's stance is not against Vietnam.




That design is not new design, but only upgradation of P-17. And that design directly coming from NDB aka Naval Design Beureu.

Obviously that going to cost more, even a single BrahMos cost 5 times more than normal AShM, and that meant to deploy both BrahMos and Nirbhay.

Even the MF-STAR almost cost triple than european counterpart. Why? You know the reason why? BTW, bigger MF-STAR for Destroyer and Frigate was specifically designed for India, and no one know actual details. What you reading is open source details.

And lastly, obviously the cost is more.

When Indian Navy want to deploy 8 BrahMos+ 8 Nirbhay + 48 Barak-8 ER + 2 RBU-6000 and then Laser based CIWS during first SLEP with only crew of 150. Obviously that going to cost more.

But I was not saying GRSE present same version of Indian Navy. *Indian Navy never share its CMS, Command and Control structure, communication etc with anyone else. 
*
GRSE do the same with P-17 A, what they done with Kamotra. They contact DCNS for Vietnamese version of P-17 A.

And without Indian Navy's sensor and weapon packages, without IEP etc etc. The ship not even going to cost half its current price.


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## Aqsuperman

hoangsa74 said:


> he view from the back of that p.o.s you guys claim to be a HALE UAV is even worse than even the frontal previous pic in the video. Damn, that thing is definitely an rc toy, scooter boy. That thing is not 72 feet in wingspan, scooter boy; it is at best 15 feet with one feet per brick. That thing is so tiny and weak; how dare you third-world scooters even compare it to something like the Reaper? What a JOKE. Damn, *I have seen students over here build better planes than that p.o.s your scooter phd, scientists, and engineers put together*. That thing is so weak, just look at its pathetic landing gears and wings. Those wings will break apart the moment you put it to test in the wind tunnel. Oops, you scooter boy don't have wind tunnel yet, lol. Please, don't even bother mentioning your previous rc toys (that you guys claim to be UAV); you will make the rest of PDFers laugh.
> 
> At the end of the day, I drive around in a car, hold U.S Passport, have medical insurance coverage, live in a house, have money to screw beautiful women if I want to. You otoh, hop around miserably in a scooter and sweat all day, hold shitnam passport that got denied visa entry by every country, no medical insurance coverage, live in a mud hut or tube house, have no disposable income to shop for anything including women. I enjoy wayyyyyyyyy higher living standard than you third-world scooter boy and that's all it matters.



Well i hope you contract STDs soon or got shot in the head while enjoying precious US cum :v Have fun, dip shit. Talking with people that cant understand human logic make my IQ drop a lot. At the end of the day i remember how you and your ancestor got a US passport is all its matter to me, wealth can be gain but dignity ? Yeah sorry if i rather keep a face instead of being kicked in the face by American while begging them to provide me some pension . Pff sitting behind a keyboard and pretend that you know it all ? Student ? Have you even visit a UAV manufacturing companies ? Oh wait YOU DONT. Have you present at the testing of any UAV ? oh wait YOU DONT. Break ? How do you know it will break ? Because it slim ? You know aerodynamic well ? You know UAV material ? You have comparable knowledge to Belgian and Sweden contractors that are on the development team ? oh wait YOU DONT. You DONT know crap about anything. Do i have have to remind you how stupid you sound about the Thailand Armed Force ? You got BACK FLASHED in the face by everyone here. "You will make the rest of PDFers laugh" . Yeah people WILL laugh at an animal on a leash that criticize human just because it can be fed better. So long sucker, talking with you really waste my brain energy, especially with a US ShameCum


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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> That design is not new design, but only upgradation of P-17. And that design directly coming from NDB aka Naval Design Beureu.
> 
> Obviously that going to cost more, even a single BrahMos cost 5 times more than normal AShM, and that meant to deploy both BrahMos and Nirbhay.
> 
> Even the MF-STAR almost cost triple than european counterpart. Why? You know the reason why? BTW, bigger MF-STAR for Destroyer and Frigate was specifically designed for India, and no one know actual details. What you reading is open source details.
> 
> And lastly, obviously the cost is more.
> 
> When Indian Navy want to deploy 8 BrahMos+ 8 Nirbhay + 48 Barak-8 ER + 2 RBU-6000 and then Laser based CIWS during first SLEP with only crew of 150. Obviously that going to cost more.
> 
> But I was not saying GRSE present same version of Indian Navy. *Indian Navy never share its CMS, Command and Control structure, communication etc with anyone else.
> *
> GRSE do the same with P-17 A, what they done with Kamotra. They contact DCNS for Vietnamese version of P-17 A.
> 
> And without Indian Navy's sensor and weapon packages, without IEP etc etc. The ship not even going to cost half its current price.


That's why I'm concern about the P-17A proposition. Unless India comes up with at least 5-6 P-17A frigates in the next 10 years, along with options for foreign export, I don't see much chance for this design.


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> That's why I'm concern about the P-17A proposition. Unless India comes up with at least 5-6 P-17A frigates in the next 10 years, along with options for foreign export, I don't see much chance for this design.


The order is already given of 7 P-17 A to GRSE and MDL. And first keel will be laid by Jan 2017, with rollout of first ship by 2022.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...worth-Rs-13000-crore/articleshow/51367348.cms

Finally, let me give you brief overview of current situation. The today's world is of situation awareness,not only tactical but also strategical.

I dont know why you struck with FREMM, while totally missing Global Combat Ship from picture? Which country can provide situation awareness picture to Vietnam? Who is even deploying "Fish Hook"? Who can provide data fusion from "Fish Hook"? Who deploying geo-spatial, SAR or panchromatic sats over this region? Who capable to fly HALE UAVs over this region? Definitely not France or netherlands or Italy.

Tier-1 is only US, there reach of situation awareness is global and employ the cooperative engagement capability (CEC) using sensor-fusion techniques that enable the AEGIS to receive synthesised 3-D battlespace situational awareness inputs in real-time from a wide variety of terrestrial, airborne & space-borne sensors. In addition, the AEGIS can be supplied with 3-D geo-spatial data reqd for targetting inputs for long-range T-LAMs from the global geo-spatial database maintained by the US Navy. The only close to this AEGIS in our region is Japan, China and India.

Only three party exist in this region ,,, Japan, China and India that use situation awareness on strategical level.
I dont know, if Vietnam seriously want a high tech frigate with AEGIS like capabilities, why not it approached UK or Japan or even India.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> That design is not new design, but only upgradation of P-17. And that design directly coming from NDB aka Naval Design Beureu.
> 
> Obviously that going to cost more, even a single BrahMos cost 5 times more than normal AShM, and that meant to deploy both BrahMos and Nirbhay.
> 
> Even the MF-STAR almost cost triple than european counterpart. Why? You know the reason why? BTW, bigger MF-STAR for Destroyer and Frigate was specifically designed for India, and no one know actual details. What you reading is open source details.
> 
> And lastly, obviously the cost is more.
> 
> When Indian Navy want to deploy 8 BrahMos+ 8 Nirbhay + 48 Barak-8 ER + 2 RBU-6000 and then Laser based CIWS during first SLEP with only crew of 150. Obviously that going to cost more.
> 
> But I was not saying GRSE present same version of Indian Navy. *Indian Navy never share its CMS, Command and Control structure, communication etc with anyone else.
> *
> GRSE do the same with P-17 A, what they done with Kamotra. They contact DCNS for Vietnamese version of P-17 A.
> 
> And without Indian Navy's sensor and weapon packages, without IEP etc etc. The ship not even going to cost half its current price.


the most obstacle is the cost as Silent Knight points out too. any warship that costs more than $1 billion is too much for us to afford, maybe in 10 years, but not now, given our economic situation. we don´t want to go bankrupt now, it is a long running game. I estimate we need at least 3 ships. ideally 6. so we could allocate 2 destroyers to one fleet. infrastructures serving destroyer fleet would add into the cost calculation. similar to hosting the Kilo submarine fleet.

I would expect India made weapons and ships would cost less?

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> the most obstacle is the cost as Silent Knight points out too. any warship that costs more than $1 billion is too much for us to afford, maybe in 10 years, but not now, given our economic situation. we don´t want to go bankrupt now, it is a long running game. I estimate we need at least 3 ships. ideally 6. so we could allocate 2 destroyers to one fleet. infrastructures serving destroyer fleet would add into the cost calculation. similar to hosting the Kilo submarine fleet.
> 
> I would expect India made weapons and ships would cost less?



Not for Vizag Class, P-17 A or Global Combat Ship like projects.

Which need to deploy ASW aircrafts in large number, then spy and military communication sats, then HALE and MALE UAVs, then a central command and control structure, then 3D geo-spatial data from satellites , then data from SOSUS ,,data fusion etc etc. And all in real time.
And then in P-17 A the weapon system are pretty costly, especially BrahMos.

I was thinking for Vietnam these are must. In todays world,intelligence and information is key to win the war. And thats why these types of ship cost more.

A single Global Combat Ship going to cost £859 bn.

Also, Obviously if Vietnam buy a ship like that, then it also buying data from these systems also. If P-17A become a FREMM, then it become another Kamotra or P-17. And Kamotra cost around $200-$300 mn and P-17 at $600 mn, less costly than FREMM. And even then P-17 surpass FREMM in ASW capabilities and engaging enemy ships.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> that tells u the u.s trust the bloody arab terrorists than trusting a swinger like vietnam who can give away u.s tech to china n russia for inspection. Vn has no one to blame except itself for not having a firm stand International politics


What would you do if a guy puts a gun on your head?

Do you know this smiling man on the left of the picture?

he is the Chinese Ambassador to Vietnam, Hong Xiaoyong. he is one of the most frequent guests seen in Vietnam´s Army Headquarters, Presidential Palace and the Communist Party Office. Every time before a major event occurs, he is on the scene. Smiling. Be it, before the visit of Barack Obama and Nadrenda Modi to Vietnam, be it before the PCA court issuing a verdict in the Philippine case. I don´t surprise if he puts a loaded gun on the table when talking to the vietnamese. Do you think Vietnam can act what she likes, allying with this and that partner? Chinese have little humour you should know.

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## ahojunk

Notice to all,

Please keep your discussions polite and respectful towards each other.

You can agree to disagree and move on.

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## Farhan Bohra

*Undersea Web*

A web of strategic projects is now taking shape as India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi enters into closer relationships with Japan, Australia and the United States, as well as regional powers like Vietnam, Singapore and Malaysia. Matters began taking on urgency in late September 2014, after US President Barack Obama and PM Modi pledged to intensify cooperation in maritime security. 

Following this, on 16 March 2015, the defence ministers of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) at the end of the two-day 9th ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Langkawi, Malaysia, collectively stated that they wanted India to play a far bigger role in both the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and the South China Sea. 

In the near future, therefore, under the auspices of the US-India Defence Framework Agreement, foundational pacts like the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA), and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA), will be inked by the two countries. 

Concurrently, Japan will extend funding from the Japan International Cooperation Agency for the upgradation of naval air bases and construction of new ELINT/SIGINT stations along the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands, which is made up of 572 islands (of which only 34 are presently inhabited), stretching around 470 miles north to south. But most importantly, preliminary planning has commenced on a Japan-financed project that calls for 1) laying of an undersea optical fibre cable from Chennai to Port Blair; and 2) the construction of an undersea network of seabed sonar sensors stretching from the tip of Sumatra right up to Indira Point. Once completed, this network will be an integral part of the existing US-Japan ‘Fish Hook’ sound surveillance SOSUS network. 

The US was always interested in Japanese and Indian locations for its SOSUS stations. Initially called Project Caesar, this involved running cables out on continental shelves and connecting them to hydrophones suspended above the sea bottom at optimum signal depths. An ‘experimental station’ was established at the north-western tip of Hokkaido in 1957, with the cable extending into the Soya (La Perouse) Strait. It monitored all Soviet submarine traffic going in and out of Vladivostok and Nakhodka in the Sea of Japan. 

Undersea surveillance systems and associated shore-based data collection stations code-named Barrier and Bronco were installed in Japan in the Sixties. Acoustic data collected at these sites was transmitted by US defence communications satellites to US Navy (USN) processing and analysis centres in the US. In the Seventies, a network between Japan and the Korean peninsula was commissioned. By 1980, three stations at Wakkanai (designated JAP-4), Tsushima (JAP-108) and the Ryukyu Islands (RYU-80) were operational in Japan, along with earlier stations built in the Tsushima Straits and the Okinawa area. The existence of old cables at Horonai Point in north-west Honshu, which during the Cold War led out to SOSUS arrays in the Sea of Japan, has been widely described by scuba divers. 

By the mid-Eighties the SOSUS hydrophone arrays stretched from southern Japan to the Philippines, covering the approaches to China. After the collapse of the USSR and the decline of the submarine threat to the US in the early Nineties, the USN allowed its SOSUS systems in the north-west Pacific to atrophy, although some arrays were retained in working order so as to support civilian scientific research (such as tracking whales and monitoring undersea volcanic activity). According to a USN directive issued in August 1994, all fixed arrays in the Pacific were placed on ‘hot standby’; personnel would ‘not be routinely assigned to monitor fixed-array data’ unless that data was required for operational purposes, but in practice the probability of being able to reconstitute them to full operational status was ‘extremely low’. 

However, in the early 2000s, facing an increasing PLA Navy (PLAN) submarine force and more aggressive PLAN submarine patrols, the USN decided that it needed a new chain of fixed arrays designed primarily to monitor the movement of PLAN submarines between the East China Sea and South China Sea on the one hand, and between the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean on the other hand. Thus was born the US-Japan ‘Fish Hook Undersea Defense Line’ in early 2005, stretching from Japan southwards to Southeast Asia, with key nodes at Okinawa, Guam and Taiwan. 

Beginning from near Kagoshima in the south-west part of Kyushu, it runs down the Osumi archipelago to Okinawa, then to Miyako-jima and Yonaguni in the southern part of the Ryukyu Islands, past Taiwan to the Balabac Islands in the Philippines, to Lomkok in the eastern part of the Indonesian archipelago, across the Sunda Strait between Java and Sumatra, and from northern Sumatra to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Three major gaps — between Yonaguni and Suao in north-east Taiwan (120km), between Kaohsiung in south-western Taiwan and the Dongsha (Pratas) Islands (450km) where the East China Sea meets the South China Sea, and across the Bashi Channel (220km) between Hengchun at Taiwan’s southernmost tip and Luzon Island in the Philippines — were plugged. 

In addition, the USN installed a new SOSUS network, stretching from Sasebo down to Okinawa, in 2006, when the US cable-laying ship USNS Zeus operated together with oceanographic survey vessels and nuclear submarines in this area. In July 2013, Beijing claimed that the US and Japan had jointly established ‘very large underwater monitoring systems’ at the northern and southern ends of Taiwan. One of these stretched from Yonaguni to the Senkaku Islands (about 150km), while the other covered the Bashi Channel down to The Philippines. In addition, large numbers of hydrophones had been installed ‘in Chinese waters’ close to China’s submarine bases in Qingdao, Xiaopingdao, and Yulin on Hainan Island. 

http://www.forceindia.net/Defexpo2016Day2_UnderseaWeb.aspx

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> The order is already given of 7 P-17 A to GRSE and MDL. And first keel will be laid by Jan 2017, with rollout of first ship by 2022.
> 
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...worth-Rs-13000-crore/articleshow/51367348.cms
> 
> Finally, let me give you brief overview of current situation. The today's world is of situation awareness,not only tactical but also strategical.
> 
> I dont know why you struck with FREMM, while totally missing Global Combat Ship from picture? Which country can provide situation awareness picture to Vietnam? Who is even deploying "Fish Hook"? Who can provide data fusion from "Fish Hook"? Who deploying geo-spatial, SAR or panchromatic sats over this region? Who capable to fly HALE UAVs over this region? Definitely not France or netherlands or Italy.
> 
> Tier-1 is only US, there reach of situation awareness is global and employ the cooperative engagement capability (CEC) using sensor-fusion techniques that enable the AEGIS to receive synthesised 3-D battlespace situational awareness inputs in real-time from a wide variety of terrestrial, airborne & space-borne sensors. In addition, the AEGIS can be supplied with 3-D geo-spatial data reqd for targetting inputs for long-range T-LAMs from the global geo-spatial database maintained by the US Navy. The only close to this AEGIS in our region is Japan, China and India.
> 
> Only three party exist in this region ,,, Japan, China and India that use situation awareness on strategical level.
> I dont know, if Vietnam seriously want a high tech frigate with AEGIS like capabilities, why not it approached UK or Japan or even India.


Baby steps, not giant leap, my friend, that's why.

We start with small missile boats (Project 1241.8 Molniya) then light frigate (Gepard 3.9) and SIGMA 10514. Only after these step should we move to bigger ships with 3000-4000 tons displacement.

The FREMM or P-17A or whatever 7000+ ton class frigate/destroyer would be in the long run, like 15-20 years. The C4ISR network is being built, we simply don't have the capability and infrastructure to operate complex systems like your Global Combat Ship or Aegis-like stuff at the moment.

Also, how's the probability of technology transfer in case that we choose the P-17A or GCS? How much would you be eager to share?

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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> At the end of the day, I drive around in a car, hold U.S Passport, have medical insurance coverage, live in a house, have money to screw beautiful women if I want to. You otoh, hop around miserably in a scooter and sweat all day, hold shitnam passport that got denied visa entry by every country, no medical insurance coverage, live in a mud hut or tube house, have no disposable income to shop for anything including women. I enjoy wayyyyyyyyy higher living standard than you third-world scooter boy and that's all it matters.



And how much is your car payment for the car man? Unlike Vietnam, nearly all car purchases in USA are on credit. You guys live on credit and then later end up on bankruptcy. How much credit card debt do you have? (Average household credit card debt in 2015 is $15,319 and total average household debt is $132,000, like I said, you people live on credit). How about your mortgage payment. You see, in Vietnam, people actually own (fully paid) what they have, unlike in USA.

How much you pay for car insurance man? $1500-2000 a year? That's many times more than in Vietnam. And you probably pray that the police or the highway patrol doesn't find you speeding or your car insurance will skyrocket. You people live in financial fear all the time. Vietnam on the other hand was declared one of the happiest people on the planet a few weeks ago. I think there is something wrong with your picture man.

Actually Vietnamese have way better health coverage than Americans. In USA everybody worries about having good health insurance and for the many millions that don't have it or have substandard health insurance they pray that they don't get sick, because getting sick in good old United States of America (unlike Europe) can send you to the poorhouse. Most Americans that have good health insurance still worry about the deductibles and the 20% copayment. Wow, great standard of living man. How long is the maternity leave in America? Zero days, only developed country that doesn't have it, but is 6 months in Vietnam. And if you are self employed and you have to pay your own health insurance, how much is that man? Lets see, the cheapest type like an HMO like Kaiser is about $1500-2000 a MONTH for a family of 4 right? Wow, those self employed people better be making a lot of money.

You can try to fool the people here that know nothing about USA, but not me kid, I lived there 25 years and I'm way happier living in Vietnam and enjoying it here and by the way, the middle / upper class in Vietnam is already 17 million people and projected to be 33 million in just 2020 while the middle class in USA is shrinking and poverty is up while poverty in Vietnam is way down.

For your information, there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Vietnam and if you spend some time here, you'll easily see it. How many millions are on welfare in USA man? Many !!!



Silent Knight said:


> Baby steps, not giant leap, my friend, that's why.
> 
> We start with small missile boats (Project 1241.8 Molniya) then light frigate (Gepard 3.9) and SIGMA 10514. Only after these step should we move to bigger ships with 3000-4000 tons displacement.
> 
> The FREMM or P-17A or whatever 7000+ ton class frigate/destroyer would be in the long run, like 15-20 years. The C4ISR network is being built, we simply don't have the capability and infrastructure to operate complex systems like your Global Combat Ship or Aegis-like stuff at the moment.



Thats also what I thought, that's why I was asking @William Hung what were the reasons for the FREMM because based on everything that I know, a large ship of that class was not in the plans and is not affordable for Vietnam at the moment.


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Also, how's the probability of technology transfer in case that we choose the P-17A or GCS? How much would you be eager to share?


They share the data of SATs and SOSUS, about ToT.

I don't think they share critical systems and how to reproduce them.



Carlosa said:


> And how much is your car payment for the car man? Unlike Vietnam, nearly all car purchases in USA are on credit. You guys live on credit and then later end up on bankruptcy. How much credit card debt do you have? (Average household credit card debt in 2015 is $15,319 and total average household debt is $132,000, like I said, you people live on credit). How about your mortgage payment. You see, in Vietnam, people actually own (fully paid) what they have, unlike in USA.
> 
> How much you pay for car insurance man? $1500-2000 a year? That's many times more than in Vietnam. And you probably pray that the police or the highway patrol doesn't find you speeding or your car insurance will skyrocket. You people live in financial fear all the time. Vietnam on the other hand was declared the happiest people on the planet a few weeks ago. I think there is something wrong with your picture man.
> 
> Actually Vietnamese have way better health coverage than Americans. In USA everybody worries about having good health insurance and for the many millions that don't have it or have substandard health insurance they pray that they don't get sick, because getting sick in good old United States of America (unlike Europe) can send you to the poorhouse. Most Americans that have good health insurance still worry about the deductibles and the 20% copayment. Wow, great standard of living man. How long is the maternity leave in America? Zero days, only developed country that doesn't have it, but is 6 months in Vietnam. And if you are self employed and you have to pay your own health insurance, how much is that man? Lets see, the cheapest type like an HMO like Kaiser is about $1500-2000 a MONTH for a family of 4 right? Wow, those self employed people better be making a lot of money.
> 
> You can try to fool the people here that know nothing about USA, but not me kid, I lived there 25 years and I'm way happier living in Vietnam and enjoying a very nice standard of living and by the way, the middle / upper class in Vietnam is already 17 million people and projected to be 33 million in just 2020 while the middle class in USA is shrinking and poverty is up while poverty in Vietnam is way down.
> 
> For your information, there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Vietnam and if you spend some time here, you'll easily see it. How many millions are on welfare in USA man? Many !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Thats also what I thought, that's why I was asking @William Hung what were the reasons for the FREMM because based on everything that I know, a large ship of that class was not in the plans and is not affordable for Vietnam at the moment.


Why buying large ship for AEGIS like system. Situation awareness system can even be deployed on 1000 tonne frigate. Same as what Israeli done.

But firstly, Vietnam need to get out from Netherlands, Russia and France. And ask UK, Japan and Israel for ship design development.

I think cancelling SIGMA decision was good, but ordering Gepard is horrible. Instead of this Vietnam should approached India or Japan for shipbuilding, for sensor fitment to Israel and weapon system to Russia/India/Israel.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> They share the data of SATs and SOSUS, about ToT.
> 
> I don't think they share critical systems and how to reproduce them.
> 
> 
> Why buying large ship for AEGIS like system. Situation awareness system can even be deployed on 1000 tonne frigate. Same as what Israeli done.
> 
> But firstly, Vietnam need to get out from Netherlands, Russia and France. And ask UK, Japan and Israel for ship design development.
> 
> I think cancelling SIGMA decision was good, but ordering Gepard is horrible. Instead of this Vietnam should approached India or Japan for shipbuilding, for sensor fitment to Israel and weapon system to Russia/India/Israel.



Very well said, I never like the Gepard myself, I consider the SIGMA a little bit better than the Gepard, but neither one can survive a conflict with the chinese. Only the Kilos can make it.


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## Farhan Bohra

@Carlosa Just listen these, you started to realize the Great Game of ASEAN. Lol, India already started to say Vietnam as leader of ASEAN.

Here what PM stated in ASEAN meeting about SCS







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/773724178776109056

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very well said, I never like the Gepard myself, I consider the SIGMA a little bit better than the Gepard, but neither one can survive a conflict with the chinese. Only the Kilos can make it.


Gepard 5 and 6 with Kalibr cruise missiles will impress the audience a bit. Gepard or Sigma in the present configuration are designed to attack in an ambush, hit and run, not in open sea battles. We must wait until air defense destroyer. True, Kilo is the master of sea right now.



Farhan Bohra said:


> *Undersea Web*
> 
> A web of strategic projects is now taking shape as India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi enters into closer relationships with Japan, Australia and the United States, as well as regional powers like Vietnam, Singapore and Malaysia. Matters began taking on urgency in late September 2014, after US President Barack Obama and PM Modi pledged to intensify cooperation in maritime security.
> 
> Following this, on 16 March 2015, the defence ministers of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) at the end of the two-day 9th ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Langkawi, Malaysia, collectively stated that they wanted India to play a far bigger role in both the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and the South China Sea.
> 
> In the near future, therefore, under the auspices of the US-India Defence Framework Agreement, foundational pacts like the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA), and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA), will be inked by the two countries.
> 
> Concurrently, Japan will extend funding from the Japan International Cooperation Agency for the upgradation of naval air bases and construction of new ELINT/SIGINT stations along the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands, which is made up of 572 islands (of which only 34 are presently inhabited), stretching around 470 miles north to south. But most importantly, preliminary planning has commenced on a Japan-financed project that calls for 1) laying of an undersea optical fibre cable from Chennai to Port Blair; and 2) the construction of an undersea network of seabed sonar sensors stretching from the tip of Sumatra right up to Indira Point. Once completed, this network will be an integral part of the existing US-Japan ‘Fish Hook’ sound surveillance SOSUS network.
> 
> The US was always interested in Japanese and Indian locations for its SOSUS stations. Initially called Project Caesar, this involved running cables out on continental shelves and connecting them to hydrophones suspended above the sea bottom at optimum signal depths. An ‘experimental station’ was established at the north-western tip of Hokkaido in 1957, with the cable extending into the Soya (La Perouse) Strait. It monitored all Soviet submarine traffic going in and out of Vladivostok and Nakhodka in the Sea of Japan.
> 
> Undersea surveillance systems and associated shore-based data collection stations code-named Barrier and Bronco were installed in Japan in the Sixties. Acoustic data collected at these sites was transmitted by US defence communications satellites to US Navy (USN) processing and analysis centres in the US. In the Seventies, a network between Japan and the Korean peninsula was commissioned. By 1980, three stations at Wakkanai (designated JAP-4), Tsushima (JAP-108) and the Ryukyu Islands (RYU-80) were operational in Japan, along with earlier stations built in the Tsushima Straits and the Okinawa area. The existence of old cables at Horonai Point in north-west Honshu, which during the Cold War led out to SOSUS arrays in the Sea of Japan, has been widely described by scuba divers.
> 
> By the mid-Eighties the SOSUS hydrophone arrays stretched from southern Japan to the Philippines, covering the approaches to China. After the collapse of the USSR and the decline of the submarine threat to the US in the early Nineties, the USN allowed its SOSUS systems in the north-west Pacific to atrophy, although some arrays were retained in working order so as to support civilian scientific research (such as tracking whales and monitoring undersea volcanic activity). According to a USN directive issued in August 1994, all fixed arrays in the Pacific were placed on ‘hot standby’; personnel would ‘not be routinely assigned to monitor fixed-array data’ unless that data was required for operational purposes, but in practice the probability of being able to reconstitute them to full operational status was ‘extremely low’.
> 
> However, in the early 2000s, facing an increasing PLA Navy (PLAN) submarine force and more aggressive PLAN submarine patrols, the USN decided that it needed a new chain of fixed arrays designed primarily to monitor the movement of PLAN submarines between the East China Sea and South China Sea on the one hand, and between the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean on the other hand. Thus was born the US-Japan ‘Fish Hook Undersea Defense Line’ in early 2005, stretching from Japan southwards to Southeast Asia, with key nodes at Okinawa, Guam and Taiwan.
> 
> Beginning from near Kagoshima in the south-west part of Kyushu, it runs down the Osumi archipelago to Okinawa, then to Miyako-jima and Yonaguni in the southern part of the Ryukyu Islands, past Taiwan to the Balabac Islands in the Philippines, to Lomkok in the eastern part of the Indonesian archipelago, across the Sunda Strait between Java and Sumatra, and from northern Sumatra to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Three major gaps — between Yonaguni and Suao in north-east Taiwan (120km), between Kaohsiung in south-western Taiwan and the Dongsha (Pratas) Islands (450km) where the East China Sea meets the South China Sea, and across the Bashi Channel (220km) between Hengchun at Taiwan’s southernmost tip and Luzon Island in the Philippines — were plugged.
> 
> In addition, the USN installed a new SOSUS network, stretching from Sasebo down to Okinawa, in 2006, when the US cable-laying ship USNS Zeus operated together with oceanographic survey vessels and nuclear submarines in this area. In July 2013, Beijing claimed that the US and Japan had jointly established ‘very large underwater monitoring systems’ at the northern and southern ends of Taiwan. One of these stretched from Yonaguni to the Senkaku Islands (about 150km), while the other covered the Bashi Channel down to The Philippines. In addition, large numbers of hydrophones had been installed ‘in Chinese waters’ close to China’s submarine bases in Qingdao, Xiaopingdao, and Yulin on Hainan Island.
> 
> http://www.forceindia.net/Defexpo2016Day2_UnderseaWeb.aspx


it is not a secret the US military Intel monitors and tracks any single Chinese warship including submarine, at port, at sea, day and night. It surprises me a bit how deep the Japanese have involved in the Sosus system. Good to know.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Gepard 5 and 6 with Kalibr cruise missiles will impress the audience a bit. Gepard or Sigma in the present configuration are designed to attack in an ambush, hit and run, not in open sea battles. We must wait until air defense destroyer. True, Kilo is the master of sea right now.
> .



If Gepard 5 and 6 keep the same air defense, they are sitting ducks same as the other Gepards.

Ambush and hit and run used to work quite ok in the past before surveillance satellites, UAVs, AWACS, etc. Do you seriously think that the chinese would not be tracking every single Vietnamese ship in a conflict? Its very difficult to hide these days, only subs can hide.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Gepard 5 and 6 with Kalibr cruise missiles will impress the audience a bit. Gepard or Sigma in the present configuration are designed to attack in an ambush, hit and run, not in open sea battles. We must wait until air defense destroyer. True, Kilo is the master of sea right now.
> 
> 
> it is not a secret the US military Intel monitors and tracks any single Chinese warship including submarine, at port, at sea, day and night. It surprises me a bit how deep the Japanese have involved in the Sosus system. Good to know.


For Indian SOSUS, all the system will be bought from Japan.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> If Gepard 5 and 6 keep the same air defense, they are sitting ducks same as the other Gepards.
> 
> Ambush and hit and run used to work quite ok in the past before surveillance satellites, UAVs, AWACS, etc. Do you seriously think that the chinese would not be tracking every single Vietnamese ship in a conflict? Its very difficult to hide these days, only subs can hide.


is the Palma air defence system too weak? from the specs, it sounds not too bad.


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## TenLua

Anybody here able to provide update on Vietnamese space development?

Military or otherwise?


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> is the Palma air defence system too weak? from the specs, it sounds not too bad.



Its good but its essentially a CIWS even with the newest 9M311missiles variant which somewhat comparable to HQ-7 . We need something that has a bit of range. Preferably a VLS SAM that can provide an effective air cover. Aster from FREMM seem promising but im not really into French ability to keep thing straight. 



TenLua said:


> Anybody here able to provide update on Vietnamese space development?
> 
> Military or otherwise?



Well there is a deal with India for the linking of satellite stations to provide high - quality imagine which can be used for various purpose. Nothing new so far since then.


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## TenLua

hoangsa74 said:


> Got mad, third-world scooter man? lol
> 
> The view from the back of that p.o.s you guys claim to be a HALE UAV is even worse than even the frontal previous pic in the video. Damn, that thing is definitely an rc toy, scooter boy. That thing is not 72 feet in wingspan, scooter boy; it is at best 15 feet with one feet per brick. That thing is so tiny and weak; how dare you third-world scooters even compare it to something like the Reaper? What a JOKE. Damn, *I have seen students over here build better planes than that p.o.s your scooter phd, scientists, and engineers put together*. That thing is so weak, just look at its pathetic landing gears and wings. Those wings will break apart the moment you put it to test in the wind tunnel. Oops, you scooter boy don't have wind tunnel yet, lol. Please, don't even bother mentioning your previous rc toys (that you guys claim to be UAV); you will make the rest of PDFers laugh.
> 
> At the end of the day, I drive around in a car, hold U.S Passport, have medical insurance coverage, live in a house, have money to screw beautiful women if I want to. You otoh, hop around miserably in a scooter and sweat all day, hold shitnam passport that got denied visa entry by every country, no medical insurance coverage, live in a mud hut or tube house, have no disposable income to shop for anything including women. I enjoy wayyyyyyyyy higher living standard than you third-world scooter boy and that's all it matters.



LOL obvious troll. There are no other reasons for this damnable persistence. 

I'd say that UAV is not bad for a country that eats rice and fish sauce to survive. Imagine the possibilities when their newborn are kept nourished to fully develop their brain. So much potential to cultivate.



Aqsuperman said:


> Its good but its essentially a CIWS even with the newest 9M311missiles variant which somewhat comparable to HQ-7 . We need something that has a bit of range. Preferably a VLS SAM that can provide an effective air cover. Aster from FREMM seem promising but im not really into French ability to keep thing straight.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there is a deal with India for the linking of satellite stations to provide high - quality imagine which can be used for various purpose. Nothing new so far since then.



I see. I heard Japan is also helping Vietnam launch a satellite. Space is like the ocean pre-Columbus, and is the battlefield of the future. Vietnam needs to catch up in this department.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> is the Palma air defence system too weak? from the specs, it sounds not too bad.



Just think like that what if main radar on this ship would be EL/M-2238 and armed with 16-32 Barak-1 VLS or even 48-64 Barak-1 because of modern design?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> If Gepard 5 and 6 keep the same air defense, they are sitting ducks same as the other Gepards.
> 
> Ambush and hit and run used to work quite ok in the past before surveillance satellites, UAVs, AWACS, etc. Do you seriously think that the chinese would not be tracking every single Vietnamese ship in a conflict? Its very difficult to hide these days, only subs can hide.


That's why the Gepards and Molniyas will not operate alone and directly against enemy vessels.

They will be in the second line of battle and under cover of land-based long range air defense, with the first line being Kilo subs and Su-30MK2V fighters.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Anybody here able to provide update on Vietnamese space development?
> 
> Military or otherwise?


a country with the flag von rising sun sponsors US$683 million for the construction of *Vietnam Space Center*.
since 2012 under construction, expected to be completed in 2020. the goal is Vietnam made satellites and rockets 

http://www.vast.ac.vn/en/news/activ...-ceremony-of-the-vietnam-space-center-project






















also, the goal is developing launch vehicles, that can carry satellites into space with the assistance of Japan. I think there is no reason why we should not model our efforts to that of Japan Epsilon program


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## hoangsa74

Aqsuperman said:


> Well i hope you contract STDs soon or got shot in the head while enjoying precious US cum :v Have fun, dip shit. Talking with people that cant understand human logic make my IQ drop a lot. At the end of the day i remember how you and your ancestor got a US passport is all its matter to me, wealth can be gain but dignity ? Yeah sorry if i rather keep a face instead of being kicked in the face by American while begging them to provide me some pension . Pff sitting behind a keyboard and pretend that you know it all ? Student ? Have you even visit a UAV manufacturing companies ? Oh wait YOU DONT. Have you present at the testing of any UAV ? oh wait YOU DONT. Break ? How do you know it will break ? Because it slim ? You know aerodynamic well ? You know UAV material ? You have comparable knowledge to Belgian and Sweden contractors that are on the development team ? oh wait YOU DONT. You DONT know crap about anything. Do i have have to remind you how stupid you sound about the Thailand Armed Force ? You got BACK FLASHED in the face by everyone here. "You will make the rest of PDFers laugh" . Yeah people WILL laugh at an animal on a leash that criticize human just because it can be fed better. So long sucker, talking with you really waste my brain energy, especially with a US ShameCum


What dignity and face do you have for being a scooter boy? lol You're a slave of the Chinese and the russki and they turn you into a third world shitnam; that's comical to be the least. The Chinese and russki drive around in car while you still drive around in a scooter, you must be proud.

It's no wonder that all the pretty women in Vietnam unload you scooter boys and go for guys with U.S, Canada, Australia passport in a snap, lol. Even guys in their 50's like me can EASILY get a pretty girl in her 20's. Heck, I even see pretty girl with a 70-year old man. Money talks, bullchick walks. Welcome to the harsh reality in which you're poor and destitude. No chick wants to be with a scooter boy. lol

Your UAV is nothing but a tiny rc toy. I can buy something similar like that from my local hobby shop, scooter boy. Yours is not a Heron or Reaper, ..not even close. And yes, Thailand military can beat you any day of the week.



Carlosa said:


> And how much is your car payment for the car man? Unlike Vietnam, nearly all car purchases in USA are on credit. You guys live on credit and then later end up on bankruptcy. How much credit card debt do you have? (Average household credit card debt in 2015 is $15,319 and total average household debt is $132,000, like I said, you people live on credit). How about your mortgage payment. You see, in Vietnam, people actually own (fully paid) what they have, unlike in USA.
> 
> How much you pay for car insurance man? $1500-2000 a year? That's many times more than in Vietnam. And you probably pray that the police or the highway patrol doesn't find you speeding or your car insurance will skyrocket. You people live in financial fear all the time. *Vietnam on the other hand was declared the happiest people on the planet a few weeks ago. I* think there is something wrong with your picture man.
> 
> Actually Vietnamese have way better health coverage than Americans. In USA everybody worries about having good health insurance and for the many millions that don't have it or have substandard health insurance they pray that they don't get sick, because getting sick in good old United States of America (unlike Europe) can send you to the poorhouse. Most Americans that have good health insurance still worry about the deductibles and the 20% copayment. Wow, great standard of living man. How long is the maternity leave in America? Zero days, only developed country that doesn't have it, but is 6 months in Vietnam. And if you are self employed and you have to pay your own health insurance, how much is that man? Lets see, the cheapest type like an HMO like Kaiser is about $1500-2000 a MONTH for a family of 4 right? Wow, those self employed people better be making a lot of money.
> 
> You can try to fool the people here that know nothing about USA, but not me kid, I lived there 25 years and I'm way happier living in Vietnam and enjoying it here and by the way, the middle / upper class in Vietnam is already 17 million people and projected to be 33 million in just 2020 while the middle class in USA is shrinking and poverty is up while poverty in Vietnam is way down.
> 
> For your information, there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Vietnam and if you spend some time here, you'll easily see it. How many millions are on welfare in USA man? Many !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Thats also what I thought, that's why I was asking @William Hung what were the reasons for the FREMM because based on everything that I know, a large ship of that class was not in the plans and is not affordable for Vietnam at the moment.


Son, you can win the nobel pisss prize with that comment in bold and underlined. people in Vietnam are so happy that every one of them is finding all sort of ways to get the hell out asap. Even their prime minister's son bought a house near where I live, lol. Is there anyone who is poor and happy? Let me remind you Vietnam is one of the top ten poorest countries on earth. Let's all be poor so we can be happy. LOL



Viet said:


> What would you do if a guy puts a gun on your head?
> 
> Do you know this smiling man on the left of the picture?
> 
> he is the Chinese Ambassador to Vietnam, Hong Xiaoyong. he is one of the most frequent guests seen in Vietnam´s Army Headquarters, Presidential Palace and the Communist Party Office. Every time before a major event occurs, he is on the scene. Smiling. Be it, before the visit of Barack Obama and Nadrenda Modi to Vietnam, be it before the PCA court issuing a verdict in the Philippine case. I don´t surprise if he puts a loaded gun on the table when talking to the vietnamese. Do you think Vietnam can act what she likes, allying with this and that partner? Chinese have little humour you should know.


everyone knows the Chinese got the viet by the balls; even a three-year old kid. This reminds me of Chinese gangsta who tried to expand further south and extort Vietnamese American businesses in the 1980's. When the gangsta came in hordes and start demanding their protection money; little did they know they were facing a bunch of former RVN military personnels. The Viet American did not say anything; they took out their shotguns and open fire first at the gangsta. That was the first and last time Chinese gangsta tried to extort southern California Viet businesses for money.


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## TenLua

Nice. The first country with a space elevator will rule space.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> What dignity and face do you have for being a scooter boy? lol You're a slave of the Chinese and the russki and they turn you into a third world shitnam; that's comical to be the least. The Chinese and russki drive around in car while you still drive around in a scooter, you must be proud.
> 
> It's no wonder that all the pretty women in Vietnam unload you scooter boys and go for guys with U.S, Canada, Australia passport in a snap, lol. Even guys in their 50's like me can EASILY get a pretty girl in her 20's. Heck, I even see pretty girl with a 70-year old man. Money talks, bullchick walks. Welcome to the harsh reality in which you're poor and destitude. No chick wants to be with a scooter boy. lol
> 
> Your UAV is nothing but a tiny rc toy. I can buy something similar like that from my local hobby shop, scooter boy. Yours is not a Heron or Reaper, ..not even close. And yes, Thailand military can beat you any day of the week.
> 
> 
> Son, you can win the nobel pisss prize with that comment in bold and underlined. people in Vietnam are so happy that every one of them is finding all sort of ways to get the hell out asap. Even their prime minister's son bought a house near where I live, lol. Is there anyone who is poor and happy? Let me remind you Vietnam is one of the top ten poorest countries on earth. Let's all be poor so we can be happy. LOL



Here you have it daddy, learn something, Vietnam is number 5 in the planet and number 2 in Asia Pacific while USA is 108..... outch.... that must hurt your pride......
http://happyplanetindex.org/countries/vietnam/
http://happyplanetindex.org/countries/united-states-of-america


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> a country with the flag von rising sun sponsors US$683 million for the construction of *Vietnam Space Center*.
> since 2012 under construction, expected to be completed in 2020. the goal is Vietnam made satellites and rockets
> 
> http://www.vast.ac.vn/en/news/activ...-ceremony-of-the-vietnam-space-center-project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, the goal is developing launch vehicles, that can carry satellites into space with the assistance of Japan. I think there is no reason why we should not model our efforts to that of Japan Epsilon program


I'm expecting one day for our country

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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> What dignity and face do you have for being a scooter boy? lol You're a slave of the Chinese and the russki and they turn you into a third world shitnam; that's comical to be the least. The Chinese and russki drive around in car while you still drive around in a scooter, you must be proud.
> 
> It's no wonder that all the pretty women in Vietnam unload you scooter boys and go for guys with U.S, Canada, Australia passport in a snap, lol. Even guys in their 50's like me can EASILY get a pretty girl in her 20's. Heck, I even see pretty girl with a 70-year old man. Money talks, bullchick walks. Welcome to the harsh reality in which you're poor and destitude. No chick wants to be with a scooter boy. lol
> 
> Your UAV is nothing but a tiny rc toy. I can buy something similar like that from my local hobby shop, scooter boy. Yours is not a Heron or Reaper, ..not even close. And yes, Thailand military can beat you any day of the week.
> 
> 
> Son, you can win the nobel pisss prize with that comment in bold and underlined. people in Vietnam are so happy that every one of them is finding all sort of ways to get the hell out asap. Even their prime minister's son bought a house near where I live, lol. Is there anyone who is poor and happy? Let me remind you Vietnam is one of the top ten poorest countries on earth. Let's all be poor so we can be happy. LOL
> 
> 
> everyone knows the Chinese got the viet by the balls; even a three-year old kid. This reminds me of Chinese *gangsta* who tried to expand further south and extort Vietnamese American businesses in the 1980's. When the *gangsta* came in hordes and start demanding their protection money; little did they know they were facing a bunch of former RVN military personnels. The Viet American did not say anything; they took out their shotguns and open fire first at the *gangsta*. That was the first and last time Chinese *gangsta* tried to extort southern California Viet businesses for money.



You keep saying everybody knows this, everyone knows that, only in your delusional mind daddy.

gangsta? All these years in USA and you still didn't learn to spell English? How about gangster?


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Just think like that what if main radar on this ship would be EL/M-2238 and armed with 16-32 Barak-1 VLS or even 48-64 Barak-1 because of modern design?


yes if we can buy the ship design from the bear, then adding components we need 



hoangsa74 said:


> everyone knows the Chinese got the viet by the balls; even a three-year old kid. This reminds me of Chinese gangsta who tried to expand further south and extort Vietnamese American businesses in the 1980's. When the gangsta came in hordes and start demanding their protection money; little did they know they were facing a bunch of former RVN military personnels. The Viet American did not say anything; they took out their shotguns and open fire first at the gangsta. That was the first and last time Chinese gangsta tried to extort southern California Viet businesses for money.


do you think I don´t know it. Lol. only delusional Chinese triad boys want to extort money from our people in Cali. that is a one-way street for them. because they don´t return home without getting a bunch into their stomach. but the situation in VN is much more difficult. it is grim. the Chinese are more populous and have bigger guns.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> is the Palma air defence system too weak? from the specs, it sounds not too bad.



First of all, you only have 1 Palma at the front of the ship, it can't cover the back. It needs direct line of sight to guide missiles to target.

Second is the limited range of 8-10 km, too little. Little reaction time to intercept supersonic missiles.

Third, the missiles are guided by laser which means that in cases of heavy fog, rain, etc, its unreliable.

Fourth, it can only intercept missiles flying up to mach 1.5 speed, how about if it has to intercept faster chinese missiles? Bye bye Gepard in that case.

Fifth, it can only intercept 1 missile at the time, but these days its typical to launch a number of missiles against the ship.

You still think its good?

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> yes if we can buy the ship design from the bear, then adding components we need
> 
> 
> do you think I don´t know it. Lol. only delusional Chinese triad boys want to extort money from our people in Cali. that is a one-way street for them. because they don´t return home without getting a bunch into their stomach. but the situation in VN is much more difficult. it is grim. the Chinese are more populous and have bigger guns.



Nothing a thousand mini-sub cannot handle. Pipe dream, but probable.


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> First of all, you only have 1 Palma at the front of the ship, it can't cover the back. It needs direct line of sight to guide missiles to target.
> 
> Second is the limited range of 8-10 km, too little. Little reaction time to intercept supersonic missiles.
> 
> Third, the missiles are guided by laser which means that in cases of heavy fog, rain, etc, its unreliable.
> 
> Fourth, it can only intercept missiles flying up to mach 1.5 speed, how about if it has to intercept faster chinese missiles? Bye bye Gepard in that case.
> 
> Fifth, it can only intercept 1 missile at the time, but these days its typical to launch a number of missiles against the ship.
> 
> You still think its good?


Stop beating the dead horse. The gepard is a floating coffin.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> First of all, you only have 1 Palma at the front of the ship, it can't cover the back. It needs direct line of sight to guide missiles to target.
> 
> Second is the limited range of 8-10 km, too little. Little reaction time to intercept supersonic missiles.
> 
> Third, the missiles are guided by laser which means that in cases of heavy fog, rain, etc, its unreliable.
> 
> Fourth, it can only intercept missiles flying up to mach 1.5 speed, how about if it has to intercept faster chinese missiles? Bye bye Gepard in that case.
> 
> Fifth, it can only intercept 1 missile at the time, but these days its typical to launch a number of missiles against the ship.
> 
> You still think its good?


The Gepards rely on a triangle CIWS = one Palma in the front and two AK-630M in the rear, along with the AK-176M. Theoretically it can cover at least 180 degrees on any side at any given time. The limit factor is fire control radar as it can only control 2 gun systems at any given time (two AK-630M or AK-630M/AK-176M).

The CIWS is hardkill defense system. Every ships have their EW and decoy systems too.

If you do want bigger and longer range ADS, you need bigger ship in the range of 3000-4000 tons displacement. If you have only the 2100 tons Gepard, you have to take some compromises.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> The Gepards rely on a triangle CIWS = one Palma in the front and two AK-630M in the rear, along with the AK-176M. Theoretically it can cover at least 180 degrees on any side at any given time. The limit factor is fire control radar as it can only control 2 gun systems at any given time (two AK-630M or AK-630M/AK-176M).
> 
> The CIWS is hardkill defense system. Every ships have their EW and decoy systems too.
> 
> If you do want bigger and longer range ADS, you need bigger ship in the range of 3000-4000 tons displacement. If you have only the 2100 tons Gepard, you have to take some compromises.



Well, the SIGMA is in the same category, but having 12 MICA missiles that can defend the ship in a 360 degree circumference, that's already much better (it can carry up to 18 MICA missiles). The Gepard is too weak in air defense.

One example, the Israeli Saar 5 corvette, 1100 tons, has 16 Barak 8 missiles and MF/Star radar system.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, the SIGMA is in the same category, but having 12 MICA missiles that can defend the ship in a 360 degree circumference, that's already much better (it can carry up to 16 MICA missiles). The Gepard is too weak in air defense.
> 
> One example, the Israeli Saar 5 corvette, 1100 tons, has 16 Barak 8 missiles and MF/Star radar system.
> 
> View attachment 332520
> View attachment 332521
> View attachment 332522
> View attachment 332523


Sipri reports Vietnam has acquired 40 Mica missiles for the future Sigma warships. each ship will carry 12 missiles.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Well, the SIGMA is in the same category, but having 12 MICA missiles that can defend the ship in a 360 degree circumference, that's already much better (it can carry up to 16 MICA missiles). The Gepard is too weak in air defense.
> 
> One example, the Israeli Saar 5 corvette, 1100 tons, has 16 Barak 8 missiles and MF/Star radar system.
> 
> View attachment 332520
> View attachment 332521
> View attachment 332522
> View attachment 332523


I actually say it would be better if Vietnam bought Saar 5, that increased the Vietnam's capabilities by many folds. But Gepard cant do a thing, even I cant say Gepard as some modern frigate or corvette.

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## Viet

as the Navy has acquired 40 Mica, let see how the missiles will be installed in bigger version of Sigma. 16, 32 instead of 12 missiles?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> as the Navy has acquired 40 Mica, let see how the missiles will be installed in bigger version of Sigma. 16, 32 instead of 12 missiles?



As far as I know, the MICA capability is the same in the Sigma 9814 or 10514, 12 missiles as standard configuration, but can add another row of 6 if the customer wants.

Sorry, I made a mistake before when I said 16, its 18, 6 missiles per row.
2 rows as standard configuration and there is space for a third row.



Farhan Bohra said:


> I actually say it would be better if Vietnam bought Saar 5, that increased the Vietnam's capabilities by many folds. But Gepard cant do a thing, even I cant say Gepard as some modern frigate or corvette.



And lets not even talk about the Saar 6 that its being built now in Germany for Israel.

The Gepard versions that Vietnam bought are extremely limited, they are ok to patrol during peacetime and show the flag, but not much more. During a conflict, they can only operate in a sanctuary type of area, depending on other assets for protection as Silent Knight said. I think there are much better options for the money and the Israelis have shown that.



Viet said:


> as the Navy has acquired 40 Mica, let see how the missiles will be installed in bigger version of Sigma. 16, 32 instead of 12 missiles?



Integrating the MICA into the Gepard and placing the MICA VLS where the Palma is, that would already be a good improvement.

Better yet, can also integrate Barak 8 as the Israelis did and I'm sure they could easily develop a naval version of the Spyder if a customer wants, that would be very nice for Vietnam since they are already using the missiles and its a lot cheaper than MICA.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> As far as I know, the MICA capability is the same in the Sigma 9814 or 10514, 12 missiles as standard configuration, but can add another row of 6 if the customer wants.
> 
> Sorry, I made a mistake before when I said 16, its 18, 6 missiles per row.
> 2 rows as standard configuration and there is space for a third row.
> 
> 
> 
> And lets not even talk about the Saar 6 that its being built now in Germany for Israel.
> 
> The Gepard versions that Vietnam bought are extremely limited, they are ok to patrol during peacetime and show the flag, but not much more. During a conflict, they can only operate in a sanctuary type of area, depending on other assets for protection as Silent Knight said. I think there are much better options for the money and the Israelis have shown that.
> 
> 
> 
> Integrating the MICA into the Gepard and placing the MICA VLS where the Palma is, that would already be a good improvement.


Yeah, then why such love with Netherlands or Russia? Why not Germany?



> The Sa'ar 6 has a displacement of 2,000 tons and is 90 m (300 ft) long. It is armed with an Oto Melara 76 mm main gun, two Typhoon Weapon Stations, 32 vertical launch cells for Barak-8 surface-to-air missiles, the C-Dome point defense system, 16 anti-ship missiles, the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR AESA radar, and two 324 mm torpedo launchers. It has hangar space and a platform able to accommodate a medium class SH-60-type helicopter.



What ever Netherlands do, I am damn sure they cant match German industrial and R&D capabilities.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Yeah, then why such love with Netherlands or Russia? Why not Germany?
> 
> 
> 
> What ever Netherlands do, I am damn sure they cant match German industrial and R&D capabilities.



The Netherlands have a long term relationship with Vietnam in many areas, they are ahead of all European countries in that regard, so they are in the pole position so to speak.

The Israelis designed the Saar 6 and they gave it to Germany to build it. I think Vietnam needs to deepen the relationship with Israel, they have the goodies.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> First of all, you only have 1 Palma at the front of the ship, it can't cover the back. It needs direct line of sight to guide missiles to target.
> 
> Second is the limited range of 8-10 km, too little. Little reaction time to intercept supersonic missiles.
> 
> Third, the missiles are guided by laser which means that in cases of heavy fog, rain, etc, its unreliable.
> 
> Fourth, it can only intercept missiles flying up to mach 1.5 speed, how about if it has to intercept faster chinese missiles? Bye bye Gepard in that case.
> 
> Fifth, it can only intercept 1 missile at the time, but these days its typical to launch a number of missiles against the ship.
> 
> You still think its good?


Ok I see it. How about installing one or two Gatling guns on the Molynia and Gepard to increase air defense?

Vietnam made 6 barrels Gatling gun

























What we need is to develop a radar fire control system for the highspeed cannon as seen on US warships.

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## Viet

Mounting artillery on trucks






























The next challenge: how to mount heavy artillery as 130mm or 152mm on trucks?

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Ok I see it. How about installing one or two Gatling guns on the Molynia and Gepard to increase air defense?
> 
> Vietnam made 6 barrels Gatling gun
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> What we need is to develop a radar fire control system for the highspeed cannon as seen on US warships.



Do you have the spec on that Gatling? What's the rounds per minute? Range? Caliber?


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Mounting artillery on trucks
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> The next challenge: how to mount heavy artillery as 130mm or 152mm on trucks?



I believe the correct designation for mobile artillery is "self-propelled artillery."

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Do you have the spec on that Gatling? What's the rounds per minute? Range? Caliber?


It is modeled after Russia made Ak630M CIWS. Caliber 30mm, 5,000-10,000 rounds a minute, range 5,000m.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> What we need is to develop a radar fire control system for the highspeed cannon as seen on US warships.


Every ships have it and it's called MR-123. Or you mean we should develop a new one?



TenLua said:


> Do you have the spec on that Gatling? What's the rounds per minute? Range? Caliber?


Actually that's an AK-630M without cover and was converted for ground operations.

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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Every ships have it and it's called MR-123. Or you mean we should develop a new one?
> 
> 
> Actually that's an AK-630M without cover and was converted for ground operations.



I can see why. A literal meat grinder. I hope war can be avoided.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ok I see it. How about installing one or two Gatling guns on the Molynia and Gepard to increase air defense?
> 
> Vietnam made 6 barrels Gatling gun
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> What we need is to develop a radar fire control system for the highspeed cannon as seen on US warships.



They already have Gatling guns, what is needed is a short / medium range missile like MICA / SPYDER or better. These type of missiles will work with the radar of the ship and they lock on after launch so the installation is easy, just the VLS and the control unit, that's all. Its also cheap.

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## Aqsuperman

Its seem that after French, UK also step up his moves in the region.

"Britain and Vietnam are building fresh ties after their respective defense ministers quietly met to discuss future cooperation. The move comes as Vietnam scopes out potential new allies to strengthen its hand against China.

The meeting also comes as the Southeast Asian state is working on establishing warm relations with another Asian giant, India, and receiving direct military support from Japan at a time when its relations with China are at a particularly low ebb.

Although barely reported on in the UK press, Ministry of Defence (MoD) minister Earl Howe met with Vietnam’s Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh before a conference on UN peacekeeping in London on Thursday."

https://www.rt.com/uk/358691-vietnam-relations-china-sea/


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## Viet

There is indeed something going on.
General Lt. Nguyen chi Vinh is for a 3 day visit to England. Vinh is the strategic head of Vietnam armed forces.

_



_

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Ok I see it. How about installing one or two Gatling guns on the Molynia and Gepard to increase air defense?
> 
> Vietnam made 6 barrels Gatling gun
> 
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> What we need is to develop a radar fire control system for the highspeed cannon as seen on US warships.



This is not about Gatling gun, but about integration with radar and CIC ( Combat Information Center), which Vietnam cant do as IP rights of Gepard belong to Russia.

Otherwise, why gatling gun? Why not Barak-1?


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Every ships have it and it's called MR-123. Or you mean we should develop a new one?
> 
> 
> Actually that's an AK-630M without cover and was converted for ground operations.


Exactly. I don't know if it is very difficult to make fire control radar for our Gatling gun, if not it is just half useful. But such a rotating gun on the ground even without radar makes an impressive firepower

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Exactly. I don't know if it is very difficult to make fire control radar for our Gatling gun, if not it is just half useful. But such a rotating gun on the ground even without radar makes an impressive firepower


Its not about difficult, 

Its about integration, which Russia never allow and slap IP rights over face of Vietnam.


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> This is not about Gatling gun, but about integration with radar and CIC ( Combat Information Center), which Vietnam cant do as IP rights of Gepard belong to Russia.
> 
> Otherwise, why gatling gun? Why not Barak-1?


My friend It is all about how to strengthen our industrial military complex. First thing first. Besides we lack money for buying this and that.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> My friend It is all about how to strengthen our industrial military complex. First thing first. Besides we lack money for buying this and that.


See, the economy of Israel is also not some Trillion of dollars, but they doing things smartly. Even the Philippines done smartly with procurement of new frigate.

They know they doesnt have the infrastructure to build ship, thats why they contacted third party only to build the ship without weapon fitment and sensors.

Like in case of Israel,they procured weapon fitment and sensors from other party like IAI. Why not Vietnam do so? That is must if Vietnam buy Gepard, then the weapon system, CMS etc etc should be from Russia?

Even in India case, India added Barak missiles in INS Vikramaditya,, even when whole ship was coming from Russia.

But I am unable to understand why Vietnam missing this point? I think before buying a ship Vietnam doing negotiations very badly.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Exactly. I don't know if it is very difficult to make fire control radar for our Gatling gun, if not it is just half useful. But such a rotating gun on the ground even without radar makes an impressive firepower



Not difficult, Myanmar has already done it.



Farhan Bohra said:


> See, the economy of Israel is also not some Trillion of dollars, but they doing things smartly. Even the Philippines done smartly with procurement of new frigate.
> 
> They know they doesnt have the infrastructure to build ship, thats why they contacted third party only to build the ship without weapon fitment and sensors.
> 
> Like in case of Israel,they procured weapon fitment and sensors from other party like IAI. Why not Vietnam do so? That is must if Vietnam buy Gepard, then the weapon system, CMS etc etc should be from Russia?
> 
> Even in India case, India added Barak missiles in INS Vikramaditya,, even when whole ship was coming from Russia.
> 
> But I am unable to understand why Vietnam missing this point? I think before buying a ship Vietnam doing negotiations very badly.



Vietnam is very risk averse. In my view, mixing weapon systems as India does, its the best way, you get the best from everybody. But oh well.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Not difficult, Myanmar has already done it.
> 
> Vietnam is very risk averse. In my view, mixing weapon systems as India does, its the best way, you get the best from everybody. But oh well.


Not difficult? Interesting to know.

True. I believe too, the people in the procurement prefer battle and war proven military hardware. Maybe we have too little resources neither money nor time for trails and errors.



Farhan Bohra said:


> See, the economy of Israel is also not some Trillion of dollars, but they doing things smartly. Even the Philippines done smartly with procurement of new frigate.
> 
> They know they doesnt have the infrastructure to build ship, thats why they contacted third party only to build the ship without weapon fitment and sensors.
> 
> Like in case of Israel,they procured weapon fitment and sensors from other party like IAI. Why not Vietnam do so? That is must if Vietnam buy Gepard, then the weapon system, CMS etc etc should be from Russia?
> 
> Even in India case, India added Barak missiles in INS Vikramaditya,, even when whole ship was coming from Russia.
> 
> But I am unable to understand why Vietnam missing this point? I think before buying a ship Vietnam doing negotiations very badly.


We don't know many things because they happen under the surface. Not knowing is not equal not happening. Fact is Vietnam cooperates with partners and friends looking how to strengthen our armed forces. Look, nearly unknown to the public, this week a military delegation flies to London holding talks with the British defence ministry, foreign office, think tanks and defence companies. I think it is good to copy and learn how the British operates the Army. Small island but powerful Navy.

Many things also, I like to see in ours: air defense destroyer and nuclear powered submarine

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## Viet

produced by Z111 factory, Vietnam made Kalashnikov AK-103 assault rifle 7.62×39mm, with grenade launcher M-203

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## Farhan Bohra

Both sides agreed to effectively implement the Joint Vision Statement on India-Vietnam Defence Relations of May 2015. Prime Minister Narendra Modi reaffirmed India's significant interest in promoting defence industry cooperation between the two sides and committed to provide a new Line of Credit for Vietnam in this area. *Both sides welcomed the signing of the contract for Offshore High-speed Patrol Boats between M/s Larsen & Toubro and Vietnam Border Guards utilizing the US$100 million Line of Credit for defence procurement extended by India to Vietnam.* Prime Minister Modi announced a grant of US$ 5 million for the construction of an Army Software Park at the Telecommunications University in Nha Trang.

The Prime Ministers welcomed the signing of the MOU on Cyber Security between Ministry of Public Security of Vietnam and Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology of India and the transfer of equipment to the Indian funded Indira Gandhi High-Tech Crime Laboratory. They agreed to an early conclusion of the MOU for cooperation between the National Security Council Secretariat of India and the Ministry of Public Security of Vietnam, emphasized the need to establish the Deputy Ministerial level dialogue and to enhance cooperation on traditional and non-traditional security matters, cyber security, counter-terrorism, transnational crimes, disaster management and response, and undertaking training and capacity building programmes.

The two Leaders emphasized that enhancing bilateral economic engagement is a strategic objective. In this regard, they requested the related ministries and agencies on both sides to explore substantive and practical measures to achieve the trade target of US$15 billion by 2020, including but not limited to: utilizing established mechanisms such as the Joint Sub-Commission on Trade, intensifying the exchanges among states of India and provinces of Vietnam, strengthening exchanges of delegation and Business-to-Business contacts, regular organization of trade fairs and events such as the India-CLMV Business Conclave and Vietnam - India Business Forum.

Both sides encouraged greater two-way investment between Vietnam and India. Prime Minister Narendra Modi welcomed Vietnamese companies to take advantage of the various schemes and facilities offered under the 'Make in India' programme. *Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc welcomed Indian companies to invest in Vietnam and affirmed Vietnam's commitment to create favourable conditions and facilitation for Indian investments in accordance with Vietnamese laws. Prime Minister Modi sought facilitation of the Government of Vietnam for major Indian investments such as Tata Power's Long Phu-II 1320MW thermal power project for achieving contractual conclusion.*

*The Prime Ministers expressed satisfaction at signing of the Inter-Governmental Framework Agreement between the two countries for Exploration of Outer Space for Peaceful Purposes and urge both sides to soon conclude the Implementing Arrangement between the Indian Space Research Organisation and Vietnam Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment on Establishment of Tracking and Data Reception Station and Data Processing Facility in Vietnam under the India-ASEAN Space Cooperation. The Vietnamese side welcomed the establishment of the facility which would increase capabilities of Vietnam and ASEAN countries in remote sensing with numerous commercial and scientific applications.
*
Both Vietnam and India stressed the need for reform of the United Nations and expansion of the UN Security Council in both the permanent and the non-permanent categories of membership, with enhanced representation from developing countries. Prime Minister Narendra Modi expressed gratitude for Vietnam's consistent support to India's candidature for permanent membership of a reformed and expanded UNSC. The Prime Ministers reaffirmed support for each other's candidature for non-permanent membership of the UNSC, Vietnam for the term 2020-21 and India for the term 2021-22. Both sides expressed satisfaction at the conclusion of the Program of Cooperation in UN Peacekeeping Matters. The Indian side expressed its commitment to capacity building and training to enable Vietnam's participation in UN peacekeeping operations. 
*
 Noting the Award issued on 12 July 2016 of the Arbitral Tribunal constituted under the Annex VII to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of Sea (UNCLOS), both sides reiterated their support for peace, stability, security, safety and freedom of navigation and over flight, and unimpeded commerce, based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UNCLOS. Both sides also called on all states to resolve disputes through peaceful means without threat or use of force and exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that could complicate or escalate disputes affecting peace and stability, respect the diplomatic and legal processes, fully observe the Declaration on the conduct of parties in the South China Sea (DOC) and soon finalize the Code of Conduct (COC). They also recognised that the sea lanes of communication passing through the South China Sea are critical for peace, stability, prosperity and development. Vietnam and India, as State Parties to the UNCLOS, urged all parties to show utmost respect for the UNCLOS, which establishes the international legal order of the seas and oceans.*

The following Agreements were signed in the presence of the two Prime Ministers: 

(i) Framework Agreement on Cooperation in the Exploration and Uses of Outer Space for Peaceful Purposes;
(ii) Protocol for Amending the Agreement on Avoiding Double Taxation; 
(iii) Program of Cooperation in UN Peacekeeping Matters; 
(iv) Protocol between the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Vietnam and the Ministry of External Affairs of India on Celebrating 2017 as the "Year of Friendship”;
(v) MOU on Health Cooperation; 
(vi) MOU on Cooperation in Information Technology; 
(vii) MOU on Cooperation between the Vietnam Academy of Social Sciences and the Indian Council of World Affairs;
(viii) MOU on cooperation in Cyber Security; 
(ix) MOU between the Bureau of Indian Standards and Directorate for Standard, Metrology and Quality for Cooperation in the Fields of Standardization and Conformity Assessment;
(x) MOU on Establishment of the Centre of Excellence in Software Development and Training;
(xi) Technical Agreement on Sharing of White Shipping Information; 
(xii) Contract for Offshore High-speed Patrol Boats;.
*
http://www.mea.gov.in/bilateral-doc...during_the_visit_of_Prime_Minister_to_Vietnam
*

This is L&T OPV

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## Viet

@Farhan Bohra 

The ships look not too bad. Yes, I think we need more patrol ships. At least 130 ships of medium and large size. that will be about the number of ships the Chinese deployed along with oil rig into our EEZ waters not long ago, bringing both countries on the verge of an armed confrontation. When media reported of mass concentration of Chinese army along the common border and part of mobilization of Vietnam armed forces.


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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> There is indeed something going on.
> General Lt. Nguyen chi Vinh is for a 3 day visit to England. Vinh is the strategic head of Vietnam armed forces.
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Here is an equalizer:

*The Great Game: Is Britain playing both sides in China-Vietnam standoff?*

https://www.rt.com/uk/358823-vietnam-south-china-sea/

Just a day after the UK pledged to bolster its support for Vietnam, the British government has promised China almost identical defense cooperation – despite the fact that the two Asian nations are teetering on the edge of a potential armed standoff.

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon met with his Chinese counterpart, Chang Wanquan, in London on Thursday on the sidelines of an international conference on UN peacekeeping.

Hours earlier, it was reported that a similar agreement had been reached with military officials from China’s fierce local rival, Vietnam.
China reportedly said it would like to deepen ties with Britain and increase military exchanges – almost identical pledges to those made between Ministry of Defence (MoD) minister Earl Howe and Vietnam’s Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh just prior to the conference.

“_We should make our military relations a critical growth pole for our bilateral relations,_” Chang told Fallon, according to the Xinhua news agency.


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## TenLua

Looks like the UK wants to play Switzerland and profit from wars. There will come a time when these people will have to answer for their transgression.

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## Carlosa

Dangerous time ahead!

*China’s Non-Peaceful Rise Already in Play?*
_*China may view a divisive US election as an opportunity to control contested features in the South China Sea

http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2016/09/09/chinas_non-peaceful_rise_already_in_play.html*_

WASHINGTON: The People’s Republic of China is headed on a tragic trajectory that should be familiar to anyone with even cursory exposure to history. Due to a complex composition of factors – a century of torment at the hands of western powers and Japan as well as a toxic brew of nationalism – the PRC is not content with its place as the world’s second largest economy, or even largest when usingpurchasing-parity power, or PPP, as the benchmark. Nor is China happy with its standing as the planet’s second largest military armed with advanced weapons like“carrier-killer” missiles, a budding hypersonic weapons program and other top-tier offensive platforms. Beijing doesn’t even seem to regard its undertaking of major initiatives like the “One Belt, One Road” project and the Asian Infrastructure and Investment Bank as signs of its rise to global superpower stature.

No, Beijing wants more, and could soon seek to transform the status-quo in Asia, especially in the South China Sea, in its favor. Indeed, recent reports suggest that Beijing’s surge for hegemony might be around the corner, as its leaders take advantage of a window of opportunity during the final weeks of the US presidential election as America’s gaze turns inward.

Many Asia specialists argued that China would boldly push forward in some aggressive manner after losing in the Hague to the Philippines over Manila’s challenge of Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea. However, China has bided its time, despite some reckless statements, provocative photo-ops including “bomber selfies” over the area and a Global Times July editorial that called Australia a "paper cat," threatening “If Australia steps into the South China Sea waters, it will be an ideal target for China to warn and strike.”

Indeed, any rising great power embracing the most basic elements of strategy must pick the most opportune

A rising great power embracing basic elements of strategy must pick the most opportune time to seize initiative.
time to seize an initiative, something not lost on Chinese military strategists and senior Communist Party officials. Any escalatory move after the Hague ruling would have been a strategic mistake. Beijing had committed to host the G20 summit slated to start seven weeks after the ruling, and the United States would soon be largely sidelined thanks to one of the most divisive presidential elections in its history. China, by waiting just a few weeks, would be in the best position in years to undertake any number of bold actions in South China Sea, ensuring its dominance over what it refers to as its own sovereign territory.

Senior officials at the Pentagon and a top diplomat representing an ASEAN nation in Washington have confided that Asia experts anticipate a Chinese move in the South China Sea that could escalate tensions, due to the circumstances and timing.

“If China is going to strike in the South China Sea, mid-September right until the November presidential election could not be a better time,” explained a senior US Department of Defense official who agreed to be interviewed if not identified. Or, put a different way by another US defense official, again speaking on background, explained: “Beijing’s best window to take advantage of certain trend lines and cement its claims in the South China Sea is right after the G20. American newspapers won’t give front-page status to a China story during the heart of the election, well, unless they start shooting, and they won’t be that stupid. For Beijing, the timing is perfect.”

Such analysis is not limited to American military circles, and a senior ASEAN nation diplomat holds almost an identical view. “China is ready to cast off any illusions of a peaceful rise. Having worked with Chinese diplomats in Asia and here in Washington for decades now, Beijing seems ready to remove any hidden aspirations of what it really wants: to dominate the South China Sea.” President Obama has warned "there will be consequences," but the senior diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, continued: “China seems poised to make a serious move to solidify its hold on the South China Sea after the G20. Why wouldn’t it? America is obsessed with its elections. And if [US President Barack] Obama would not even enforce a ‘red line’ when Assad was killing his own people with chemical weapons, ASEAN nations know he won’t come to our aid over some rocks – as many in the media will surely spin in – when his time in office is almost up.”

Beginning the morning of September 3, global media began quoting extensively from a piece in The New York Times indicating Beijing massed vessels around Scarborough Shoal, claimed by China, the Philippines and Taiwan each. The controversial move is one of a long stream of Chinese aggressions in recent years. Reports indicated that troop ships as well as barges – which could be utilized for dredging, the first steps in turning rocks into islands and islands into military bases, a play China has utilized in the past in the South China Sea – were less than 2 kilometers from the shoal.

Making matters worse, and handing China even greater incentive to begin reclamation efforts, was what can be best described as an untimely comment by Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, who threatened to insult President Obama during a proposed meeting at the East Asia Summit if he raised human rights issues. With Washington and Manila at odds, Duterte gave Beijing a golden opportunity to push forward, cementing its grasp on Scarborough. 

While relations between the United States and the Philippines, at least in the short term, are strained, Manila has every incentive to work with Washington to ensure that Beijing does not begin reclamation work at Scarborough Shoal. As a first step towards such an effort, in a move to attempt to deter and prevent Chinese action, President Obama should voice his opposition, in no uncertain terms, that any attempt to seize Scarborough would constitute a challenge to the peace and stability of Asia and would force Washington to rethink many areas of cooperation with Beijing. These could include future participation in RIMPAC and a pause in bilateral investment treaty negotiations. 

At the same time, the trend lines in the South China Sea suggest that China can increase its military might in the region dramatically for months and years to come thanks to its new island bases. The United States must actively begin crafting a strategy for if Beijing does move forward on reclamation with the goal of negating China’s growing military muscle. Options could include rotational or permanent US naval assets, especially attack submarines, in Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam and a permanent naval presence, including an aircraft carrier battle group, once again in the former US naval base at Subic Bay in the Philippines, about 200 kilometers east from Scarborough Shoal. No matter what plan of action is adopted, the goal must be to reinforce America’s critical alliances and strategic partnerships as well as ensure that the South China Sea will remain a part of the global commons – a body of water all nations have the sacred right to utilize. 

Harry J. Kazianis serves as the new director of Defense Studies at the Center for the National Interest, formerly the Nixon Center. He is the author of The Tao of A2/AD: China’s Rationale for the Creation of Anti-Access and editor and co-author of the report Tackling Asia’s Greatest Challenges: A U.S.-Japan-Vietnam Trilateral Report.

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## William Hung

Silent Knight said:


> The FM didn't say Vietnam would accept the PCA ruling either, am I right? We're welcome the ruling, but we don't and won't response to the verdict. Vietnamese FM won't straight up deny the ruling, but given its condition and verdict, do you seriously think that Vietnam would accept that?



I never said the FM said it accept the PCA ruling, just that it “welcomed” the ruling. You were the one that specifically said VN “didn’t accept the ruling”, which VN has never said and you couldn’t find the reference for. 

VN has now found itself in what I would call, an “optimal position”, which is to have the UNCLOS-sanctioned tribunal rule that China’s SCS 9 dash line claim as illegal/invalid but at the same time not to have the Tribunal to mention or rule on VN’s own claim. In the past, it always look impossible that VN could make this position possible because if VN brings China to court, it will inevitably judge VN’s own claim too. That’s why VN was always reluctant to bring the SCS issue to court. But by luck, VN now already found itself in the mentioned optimal position thanks to the PH-CN feud, whereby the tribunal officially ruled China’s claims as illegal but at the same time not ruling or mentioning VN’s own claim at all. VN now got what it always wanted and didn’t even have to do any work, all thanks to Chinese aggression and diplomatic blunder. That is why VN, even before the case concluded, officially supported the Philippines position that the tribunal do have Jurisdiction and *sent an official note to the tribunal to acknowledge that*, and not to mention the FM official statement that “VN welcomed the ruling” after the tribunal issued it. And it is also why VN did not say that “we don’t accept the ruling”, because that would just deny the optimal position that VN wanted to be in. Russia’s public statement that the PCA ruling was not valid, is in direct contradiction to Vietnam’s statement and ruins the optimal position that Vietnam had always wanted.

You can keep talking in denial mode about Russia’s contradictory stance vis-a-vis Vietnam’s own stance and try to explain it away, but its easy for others to see the contradiction. VN saying Spratly dispute needs to be solved multilaterally and the international community needs to be involved while Russia saying it agree with China that it should be done bilaterally, that non-claimants need to stay out are *clearly contradictory* yet you still tried to explain it away as _“it might”_ be contradictory. That is just talking in denial mode, not acknowledging reality.



> I'm not overreacting at all, I'd like to give more clarification for the triangle relationship. That's all.



Look, I know what your job is, what your role is and why you said the things you said. But you are just digging yourself into bigger mess. You needed to say the things you said as a form of damage-control/face-saving measure for the party but you and your crew are just uncannily and unknowingly digging yourself into bigger mess. You can keep trying to do damage-control and explain away the new realities of the Russia-China dynamics, but the more deeper the Russia-China relations go, the more you try to deny the the new realities, the more desperate and out-of-touch with reality you will sound, and *the less people will take you seriously*. This is already what have happened to the comcom site, where many people now looked down on that page (I already read what people said about it on Voz and other places). As I said, you are just digging yourself into bigger mess. Like how certain group riled up nationalism towards Hoang sa and Truong sa to get more support for the party, but then that same nationalism caused the mass to demand unacceptabe things from the party which it now has a hard time to deal with. The same nationalism that it promoted, is now causing them troubles. They have uncannily dug themselves into bigger mess. You are following that same pattern.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Exactly. I don't know if it is very difficult to make fire control radar for our Gatling gun, if not it is just half useful. But such a rotating gun on the ground even without radar makes an impressive firepower


We have developed an experimetal AESA radar and 2D/3D surveillance radars (VRS-2DM, VRS-M2D, RV-02/03...) are in full production. But I think the fire control radar is pretty different, mostly in the targeting algorithm and integration.



Farhan Bohra said:


> Even the Philippines done smartly with procurement of new frigate.


Ah.... no.

The Philippines will buy weapons from the Korean firms, not a third country. And I see their procurement is way too slow and inefficient. Case in point, the FA-50PHs were purchased without any weapon, not even 20mm ammunition for their guns. Now they are hauling *** to build weapons, but that only come in no sooner than 2018. Even some Filipino admitted they their procurement model is ridiculous.

Why we buy the whole ship with weapon package and not separately? Because that allows us and the manufacturer to rigorously test the ship as a single weapon system, not just a ship with separate weapons attached to it. Also, we simply lack the technology and know-how to fully integrate Western weapons onto Russian ships.

Israel may not be wealthy as the US, but they surely have huge funds for military industrial complex. Same goes to India.



William Hung said:


> ...


Fine, you made your point. I will not talk about this subject anymore.

But citing responses from Voz - a well-known haven for anti-government people - to judge a page that support nationalism and current government? And "other places" no other than most Facebook military fanpages that themselves once collaborated or straight-up separated from ComCom or simply jealous haters? 

That's very funny.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> We have developed an experimetal AESA radar and 2D/3D surveillance radars (VRS-2DM, VRS-M2D, RV-02/03...) are in full production. But I think the fire control radar is pretty different, mostly in the targeting algorithm and integration.
> 
> Israel may not be wealthy as the US, but they surely have huge funds for military industrial complex. Same goes to India.
> .


Can you reveal a bit more about our effort on AESA radar? How far are we from the goal deploying the radar on ships?

The Israeli receive money ($3 billions a year) and technical assistance from Washington. If we had such support, maintaining the balance of power would be easier.


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## Viet

Not really a military news but somehow related:

For the first time ever, a giant 70,000 ton cruise ship docks at Cam Ranh bay international port, the new established civil part of the bay. In the past, the bay was usually populated by warships. The new built military part of the bay is capable to host all kind of foreign warships including 110,000 ton aircraft carriers. The civil bay offers everything, from refueling to repair, maintenance and construction.

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## Farhan Bohra

William Hung said:


> I never said the FM said it accept the PCA ruling, just that it “welcomed” the ruling. You were the one that specifically said VN “didn’t accept the ruling”, which VN has never said and you couldn’t find the reference for.
> 
> VN has now found itself in what I would call, an “optimal position”, which is to have the UNCLOS-sanctioned tribunal rule that China’s SCS 9 dash line claim as illegal/invalid but at the same time not to have the Tribunal to mention or rule on VN’s own claim. In the past, it always look impossible that VN could make this position possible because if VN brings China to court, it will inevitably judge VN’s own claim too. That’s why VN was always reluctant to bring the SCS issue to court. But by luck, VN now already found itself in the mentioned optimal position thanks to the PH-CN feud, whereby the tribunal officially ruled China’s claims as illegal but at the same time not ruling or mentioning VN’s own claim at all. VN now got what it always wanted and didn’t even have to do any work, all thanks to Chinese aggression and diplomatic blunder. That is why VN, even before the case concluded, officially supported the Philippines position that the tribunal do have Jurisdiction and *sent an official note to the tribunal to acknowledge that*, and not to mention the FM official statement that “VN welcomed the ruling” after the tribunal issued it. And it is also why VN did not say that “we don’t accept the ruling”, because that would just deny the optimal position that VN wanted to be in. Russia’s public statement that the PCA ruling was not valid, is in direct contradiction to Vietnam’s statement and ruins the optimal position that Vietnam had always wanted.
> 
> You can keep talking in denial mode about Russia’s contradictory stance vis-a-vis Vietnam’s own stance and try to explain it away, but its easy for others to see the contradiction. VN saying Spratly dispute needs to be solved multilaterally and the international community needs to be involved while Russia saying it agree with China that it should be done bilaterally, that non-claimants need to stay out are *clearly contradictory* yet you still tried to explain it away as _“it might”_ be contradictory. That is just talking in denial mode, not acknowledging reality.
> 
> 
> 
> Look, I know what your job is, what your role is and why you said the things you said. But you are just digging yourself into bigger mess. You needed to say the things you said as a form of damage-control/face-saving measure for the party but you and your crew are just uncannily and unknowingly digging yourself into bigger mess. You can keep trying to do damage-control and explain away the new realities of the Russia-China dynamics, but the more deeper the Russia-China relations go, the more you try to deny the the new realities, the more desperate and out-of-touch with reality you will sound, and *the less people will take you seriously*. This is already what have happened to the comcom site, where many people now looked down on that page (I already read what people said about it on Voz and other places). As I said, you are just digging yourself into bigger mess. Like how certain group riled up nationalism towards Hoang sa and Truong sa to get more support for the party, but then that same nationalism caused the mass to demand unacceptabe things from the party which it now has a hard time to deal with. The same nationalism that it promoted, is now causing them troubles. They have uncannily dug themselves into bigger mess. You are following that same pattern.



You totally missing the point about Geopolitics.

After Europe sanctions, Russia unable to sell oil and gas other than China. They can't sell to India.

And Russia can't match the pricing of KSA and Iran.
This situation almost bankrupted Russia. To bypass this situation Russia and Central Asian Republic building NSTC (and not OBOR ) to access warm waters.

And if you still think Russia is in Chinese pocket, then let me tell you some strategic situation.

It was Russia that helped India to transfer all know-how and know-why of SLBM to India under Project Sangarika. It was Russia that transfered all know how and know why of marine reactor to India.

And now Russia going to teach how to build single hull SSN and highly enriched Uranium marine reactor & spherical sonar(from France) to India.

If the situation is like you say, then why Russia doing so ? Arming an Chinese enemy, not so kool for Chinese.

But still Chinese unable to say a single word. The good question you should ask why Russia doing so? Even when all things happened that violated NPT and MTCR.

Here, all the details



> JSC Rubin Central Marine Engineering Design Bureau (SKB-18) in St Petereburg
> 
> JSC Afrikantov Experimental Design Bureau for Mechanical Engineering (OKBM) Nizhny Novgorod
> 
> Izhorsky Zavod, at Kolpino, near St Petersburg & the Nizhny Novgorod Machine-Building Plant
> 
> Concern AVRORA Scientific and Production Association JSC in St Petersburg
> 
> The Ruskies are coming with a bang!!! The above-mentioned companies have frozen the design of a 4++ generation single-hulled SSN that Russia will be series-producing at the Amursky Yard (formerly shipyard No. 199) at Komosomolsk-na-Amur in the Far east. And this very SSN is most likely to be selected by the IN for series-producing by Larsen & Toubro at Kattupalli. This SSN will use several India-made sub-systems & components already on-board the S-2/Arihant, meaning the 2,500-odd Indian OEMs who are already certified to produce Russia-IPR-owned sub-systems & components will be able to do the same for the SSNs as well, thereby resulting in significant cost-savings. The Integrated PWR will have life of 36 years & will be rated at 45mW Thermal. Submerged displacement of this SSN will be close to 5,000 tonnes. All-electric propulsion system will be used, thereby doing away with clutches, reduction gear & transmission coupling for the propeller. It will be qualified to launched both 533mm torpedoes & BrahMos-NG ASCMs from torpedo-tubes. If the Govt of India later this year inks this landmark deal, then the Russian OEMs will immediately start sending the detailed design drawings done with Dassault's CATIA software CAD software to L & T, which in turn will commence a virtual design of this SSN at its virtual-reality submarine design facility.
> 
> In addition, all R & D work has been completed by OKBM on a 175mW Thermal Integrated PWR & all-electric propulsion system that will be offered for the IAC-2 project.





> The SSNs will all have lifelong PWRs. No mid-life refueling reqd, meaning they will use HEU enriched up to 65%. Russian fuel cores unlike their Western counterparts do not have pure cores using only 1 type of enrichment, meaning the inner portion of the core has 25% enrichment & an outer portion of the core that is enriched up to 65%. For the S-2/Arihant, it works out to 21% & 45% since the PWR used on the Arihant is a third-generation design & hence after e decade of operations, the fuel core requires replacement. But not so on the SSN.





> The SSN has been designed by RUBIN. It will be hydrodynamically more sleeker & will externally resemble the Project 705 Lira Alfa-class SSN. But the new SSN will be lighter & sleeker as it will be single-hulled & it will have far greater automation features. For instance, it will have photonic masts (most probably from THALES) & no periscopes, which in turn eliminates the traditional helmsman, planesman, chief-of-the-watch and diving officer by combining them into two stations manned by only two officers. The 46mW Thermal 4th-generation PWR was tested way back in 2006 by RUBIN & OKBM & has since been considerably refined. It was originally developed to cater to the Russian Navy’s reqmt for a new-generation SSN that will protect the flanks of the Project 955 SSBNs as pure hunter-killers, leaving the Project 885 SSGNs nto focus exclusively on shadowing & targetting hostile carrier battle-groups. For it must be recalled that the former USSR always operated several types of third-generation SSNs, & the most prolific of them were the Project 671 Yorsh, Project 671RT Syomga & Project 671RTM Shchuka SSNs—all of which have been decommissioned & require replacements.





> There will be substanti8al military-industrial French inputs into the 6 projected SSNs of the IN, like Sigma-40 RLG-INS, photonic masts, vibration-dampers, VLF comms antenna winches, etc etc. In other words, all the France-origin hardware already on board the S-2/Arihant will also find their way into the SSNs.





> There will be only two lines for nuclear-powered submarines: SSBN & SSN. L & T will be prime Indian contractor for both.

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## Aqsuperman

Humanitarian Civic Action Mangrove Reforestation. The location is Thailand.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Humanitarian Civic Action Mangrove Reforestation. The location is Thailand.



They need to do a lot of that in Central Vietnam where the local governments cleared the mangrove forest to build resorts. Of course the water will take care of those resorts in due time.


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## Viet

*

*




French President Francois Hollande and his Vietnamese counterpart Tran Dai Quang during a welcoming ceremony, Hanoi, Vietnam, Sept. 6, 2016 (AP photo by Hoang Dinh Nan).


*As Ties With Vietnam Grow, France Must Tread Carefully With China*
Karina Piser Friday, Sept. 9, 2016


On Tuesday, Francois Hollande became the first French president in 12 years to visit Vietnam, a former French colony. Despite their troubled past marked by a nearly decade-long war that ended with France’s military defeat and withdrawal from Vietnam in 1954, relations between Paris and Hanoi have warmed during Hollande’s presidency, part of France’s deepening interest in Southeast Asia and the Asia-Pacific more broadly. 

By a number of measures, the visit was a productive one. Vietnam airlines purchased 40 jets from France’s Airbus, totaling $6.5 billion in sales; low-cost private airline VietJet purchased 20 planes, totaling $2.39 billion; a regional budget carrier, Jetstar Pacific, purchased 10. The two countries released a joint statement indicating that they would soon expand cooperation on defense and maritime security, among other areas. ...

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> You totally missing the point about Geopolitics.
> 
> After Europe sanctions, Russia unable to sell oil and gas other than China. They can't sell to India.



Just one correction, Russia continues to sell gas and oil to Europe same as before and is actually going to increase sales since they are building a second pipeline to Germany and it seems like the pipeline to Turkey is going to happen after all. It now also seems like Japan decided to open up to Russia and start investing in Russia and also to buy oil and gas in which case Russia will not depend as much on China.

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## Viet

*Hun Sen and Vietnam: Best Friends Forever?*
BY BEN PAVIOUR | SEPTEMBER 2, 2016



Last week, Vietnamese Facebook user Bao Lam stopped by Prime Minister Hun Sen’s Facebook page to give him a piece of her mind.

“Cambodia eats the porridge then pisses in the bowl,” she wrote in Vietnamese, using an idiom from her country. “Vietnam has sacrificed both our blood and money to save the Cambodian people from genocide. Now Hun Sen is turning his back on Vietnam.”






Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang, left, walks with Prime Minister Hun Sen during a 2014 visit to the prime minister’s ‘Peace Palace.’ (Siv Channa/The Cambodia Daily)

“Cambodia will eventually be poisoned and exterminated” by China, she predicted.

Half an hour later, the prime minister responded to the comment, which had received no likes and came from an account that appeared to have been created in April.

“If you or your country has a problem with China, please solve it peacefully,” Mr. Hun Sen, who speaks fluent Vietnamese, wrote in English, apparently referring to Vietnam’s ongoing dispute with its northern neighbor over maritime territory in the South China Sea.

“Do not blame me and do not involve Cambodia to your country’s internal issue. Of course, I am faithful to my nation, my King and my own wife,” he wrote.

The conversation further deteriorated from there, with Ms. Lam saying the prime minister would not be perched in his “high chair” without Vietnamese help.

“May ask if this is your own word or its from [your] leader’s suggestion to attack me?” Mr. Hun Sen retorted.

The vigor of Mr. Hun Sen’s responses—coupled with recent border tensions and simmering disputes over China’s maritime claims—suggest a dip in the government’s relations with its former minders in Hanoi, who installed Mr. Hun Sen’s administration after overthrowing the Khmer Rouge regime in 1979.

But analysts say his public positioning has as much to do with CPP pre-election showmanship as diplomatic maneuvering, even as Cambodia’s increasingly cozy relationship with China could spell longer-term tension.

The prime minister’s spat with Ms. Lam—the latest of several similar exchanges—echoed through the halls of diplomacy.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement on Sunday slamming Vietnamese citizens who “have committed the immoral acts insulting the leader of Cambodia” and asking Hanoi to “punish those people.”

On Wednesday, the Vietnamese government responded by distancing itself from the posts without promising any specific punishment for offending Facebook users.

“We do not agree with using the right of freedom of expression to insult someone or to break up traditionally good sentiment between people of both countries,” it said in a statement.

Meanwhile, officials from the two countries remain at loggerheads over a shared border that the opposition CNRP has long claimed is being pushed west by Vietnamese military and civilian incursions—a position that has won the party significant popular support.

A Joint Border Committee meeting between officials from both countries ended on Tuesday without a statement amid a dispute over “uti possidetis,” the legal principle that countries continue to possess the territory they held at colonial independence.

Vietnam is continuing to build outposts in several “white zones”—undemarcated areas that both countries have agreed to stay out of—along the border and has not responded to diplomatic requests to stop.





Protesters burn a Vietnamese flag, along with a number of paper replicas of the flag, outside the Vietnamese Embassy in Phnom Penh in 2014. (Siv Channa/The Cambodia Daily)

Opposition lawmakers and activists claim that farmers in border provinces continue to rent land to Vietnamese farmers, a practice that the prime minister banned in November.

Cambodia has also repeatedly refused to join Vietnam and other Asean neighbors in formally rebuking China’s claims in the South China Sea, with many analysts saying that Cambodia’s compliance has been bought by China’s abundant aid. A recent Reuters report on U.S.-China relations described Cambodia as “increasingly seen as a Chinese satellite.”

Government spokesman Phay Siphan, however, said Cambodia and Vietnam remained fast friends.

“Both sides have experience to solve problems since 1979,” Mr. Siphan said. “The neighboring countries always have some differences.”

Carl Thayer, an emeritus professor at the Australian Defense Force Academy in Canberra, said Vietnamese officials knew the difference between the prime minister’s public posturing and more serious backroom diplomacy.

“Vietnam is mature enough to view Hun Sen’s comments on Facebook as driven by domestic concerns, that is, playing on anti-Vietnamese sentiment,” he said in an email.

“I do not think it has resulted in any marked deterioration in state to state relations,” he added.

The prime minister’s social media presence is used to “recoup his image among the youth in Cambodia and to demonstrate that Hun Sen is in control.”






A row of Cambodian men armed with wooden clubs stand in front of Cambodian soldiers about a kilometer from the Vietnamese border in Svay Rieng province, where they confronted hundreds of activists who were led to the area by a group of opposition lawmakers last year. (Alex Willemyns/The Cambodia Daily)


Political analyst Ou Virak agreed that the Facebook posts and border disputes were not indicative of a foreign relations impasse.

However, “I sense an increase in politicization of the border tension by both political parties,” he said of the CPP and CNRP.

“Growing popular calls for attention to be paid to border issues” have made it “an issue that they can no longer afford to avoid.”

The South China Sea dispute figures less prominently in the public consciousness, Mr. Virak said, and could be used by the CPP to highlight Cambodian independence.

“They’re going to play a semi-nationalist card,” he predicted, pointing to the prime minister’s Facebook comments as part of that trend.

John Ciorciari, a Cambodia scholar and associate professor at the University of Michigan’s Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy, agreed that the Facebook posts were meant for a domestic rather than diplomatic audience, but said the issues raised by the posts were real.

“Hun Sen probably would not have chosen to antagonize Vietnam over the South China Sea absent real Chinese pressure, but his decision to do so reflects a recalibration driven both by domestic political and strategic calculations,” Mr. Ciorciari said in an email.

The prime minister “clearly sees a close relationship with China as his regime’s key international backstop as the CPP’s electoral support wanes. His former patrons in Hanoi lack China’s financial heft and diplomatic clout, and close ties to Vietnam are a domestic vulnerability Cambodia’s opposition leaders are keen to exploit,” he said.

“By siding with China so clearly on the Paracel and Spratly feuds, Hun Sen has made the prospect of a balanced foreign policy more difficult in the future.”

Hanoi resident Do Duc Anh, who went to Mr. Hun Sen’s Facebook page last week to criticize the premier’s stance on the South China Sea, said his post reflected his country’s mood.

“In Vietnam, I think people are very upset,” he said in a Facebook message. They are “disappointed due to Hun Sen’s behavior about [the] South China Sea problem.”

The 21-year-old gaming-website editor said he had no plans to stop badgering Mr. Hun Sen.

“I think I’ll post on his wall if I see something about Vietnam-Cambodia relationship or something else about ASEAN and China,” he said.

paviour@cambodiadaily.com

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Just one correction, Russia continues to sell gas and oil to Europe same as before and is actually going to increase sales since they are building a second pipeline to Germany and it seems like the pipeline to Turkey is going to happen after all. It now also seems like Japan decided to open up to Russia and start investing in Russia and also to buy oil and gas in which case Russia will not depend as much on China.


don't forget the bilateral trade between Russia and China, the two brothers, collapsed by 28 percent last year, this year seems to recover a bit, but it is still very little. That shows how little substance is behind all the cheap propaganda and anti west rhetoric. That is why Russia pursues own trade pact with former soviet states, that includes...surprise...Vietnam. The bilateral trade between Vietnam and Russia increases by nearly a third in the first 6 months.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> *Hun Sen and Vietnam: Best Friends Forever?*
> BY BEN PAVIOUR | SEPTEMBER 2, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> Last week, Vietnamese Facebook user Bao Lam stopped by Prime Minister Hun Sen’s Facebook page to give him a piece of her mind.
> 
> “Cambodia eats the porridge then pisses in the bowl,” she wrote in Vietnamese, using an idiom from her country. “Vietnam has sacrificed both our blood and money to save the Cambodian people from genocide. Now Hun Sen is turning his back on Vietnam.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang, left, walks with Prime Minister Hun Sen during a 2014 visit to the prime minister’s ‘Peace Palace.’ (Siv Channa/The Cambodia Daily)
> 
> “Cambodia will eventually be poisoned and exterminated” by China, she predicted.
> 
> Half an hour later, the prime minister responded to the comment, which had received no likes and came from an account that appeared to have been created in April.
> 
> “If you or your country has a problem with China, please solve it peacefully,” Mr. Hun Sen, who speaks fluent Vietnamese, wrote in English, apparently referring to Vietnam’s ongoing dispute with its northern neighbor over maritime territory in the South China Sea.
> 
> “Do not blame me and do not involve Cambodia to your country’s internal issue. Of course, I am faithful to my nation, my King and my own wife,” he wrote.
> 
> The conversation further deteriorated from there, with Ms. Lam saying the prime minister would not be perched in his “high chair” without Vietnamese help.
> 
> “May ask if this is your own word or its from [your] leader’s suggestion to attack me?” Mr. Hun Sen retorted.
> 
> The vigor of Mr. Hun Sen’s responses—coupled with recent border tensions and simmering disputes over China’s maritime claims—suggest a dip in the government’s relations with its former minders in Hanoi, who installed Mr. Hun Sen’s administration after overthrowing the Khmer Rouge regime in 1979.
> 
> But analysts say his public positioning has as much to do with CPP pre-election showmanship as diplomatic maneuvering, even as Cambodia’s increasingly cozy relationship with China could spell longer-term tension.
> 
> The prime minister’s spat with Ms. Lam—the latest of several similar exchanges—echoed through the halls of diplomacy.
> 
> The Ministry of Foreign Affairs issued a statement on Sunday slamming Vietnamese citizens who “have committed the immoral acts insulting the leader of Cambodia” and asking Hanoi to “punish those people.”
> 
> On Wednesday, the Vietnamese government responded by distancing itself from the posts without promising any specific punishment for offending Facebook users.
> 
> “We do not agree with using the right of freedom of expression to insult someone or to break up traditionally good sentiment between people of both countries,” it said in a statement.
> 
> Meanwhile, officials from the two countries remain at loggerheads over a shared border that the opposition CNRP has long claimed is being pushed west by Vietnamese military and civilian incursions—a position that has won the party significant popular support.
> 
> A Joint Border Committee meeting between officials from both countries ended on Tuesday without a statement amid a dispute over “uti possidetis,” the legal principle that countries continue to possess the territory they held at colonial independence.
> 
> Vietnam is continuing to build outposts in several “white zones”—undemarcated areas that both countries have agreed to stay out of—along the border and has not responded to diplomatic requests to stop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protesters burn a Vietnamese flag, along with a number of paper replicas of the flag, outside the Vietnamese Embassy in Phnom Penh in 2014. (Siv Channa/The Cambodia Daily)
> 
> Opposition lawmakers and activists claim that farmers in border provinces continue to rent land to Vietnamese farmers, a practice that the prime minister banned in November.
> 
> Cambodia has also repeatedly refused to join Vietnam and other Asean neighbors in formally rebuking China’s claims in the South China Sea, with many analysts saying that Cambodia’s compliance has been bought by China’s abundant aid. A recent Reuters report on U.S.-China relations described Cambodia as “increasingly seen as a Chinese satellite.”
> 
> Government spokesman Phay Siphan, however, said Cambodia and Vietnam remained fast friends.
> 
> “Both sides have experience to solve problems since 1979,” Mr. Siphan said. “The neighboring countries always have some differences.”
> 
> Carl Thayer, an emeritus professor at the Australian Defense Force Academy in Canberra, said Vietnamese officials knew the difference between the prime minister’s public posturing and more serious backroom diplomacy.
> 
> “Vietnam is mature enough to view Hun Sen’s comments on Facebook as driven by domestic concerns, that is, playing on anti-Vietnamese sentiment,” he said in an email.
> 
> “I do not think it has resulted in any marked deterioration in state to state relations,” he added.
> 
> The prime minister’s social media presence is used to “recoup his image among the youth in Cambodia and to demonstrate that Hun Sen is in control.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A row of Cambodian men armed with wooden clubs stand in front of Cambodian soldiers about a kilometer from the Vietnamese border in Svay Rieng province, where they confronted hundreds of activists who were led to the area by a group of opposition lawmakers last year. (Alex Willemyns/The Cambodia Daily)
> 
> 
> Political analyst Ou Virak agreed that the Facebook posts and border disputes were not indicative of a foreign relations impasse.
> 
> However, “I sense an increase in politicization of the border tension by both political parties,” he said of the CPP and CNRP.
> 
> “Growing popular calls for attention to be paid to border issues” have made it “an issue that they can no longer afford to avoid.”
> 
> The South China Sea dispute figures less prominently in the public consciousness, Mr. Virak said, and could be used by the CPP to highlight Cambodian independence.
> 
> “They’re going to play a semi-nationalist card,” he predicted, pointing to the prime minister’s Facebook comments as part of that trend.
> 
> John Ciorciari, a Cambodia scholar and associate professor at the University of Michigan’s Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy, agreed that the Facebook posts were meant for a domestic rather than diplomatic audience, but said the issues raised by the posts were real.
> 
> “Hun Sen probably would not have chosen to antagonize Vietnam over the South China Sea absent real Chinese pressure, but his decision to do so reflects a recalibration driven both by domestic political and strategic calculations,” Mr. Ciorciari said in an email.
> 
> The prime minister “clearly sees a close relationship with China as his regime’s key international backstop as the CPP’s electoral support wanes. His former patrons in Hanoi lack China’s financial heft and diplomatic clout, and close ties to Vietnam are a domestic vulnerability Cambodia’s opposition leaders are keen to exploit,” he said.
> 
> “By siding with China so clearly on the Paracel and Spratly feuds, Hun Sen has made the prospect of a balanced foreign policy more difficult in the future.”
> 
> Hanoi resident Do Duc Anh, who went to Mr. Hun Sen’s Facebook page last week to criticize the premier’s stance on the South China Sea, said his post reflected his country’s mood.
> 
> “In Vietnam, I think people are very upset,” he said in a Facebook message. They are “disappointed due to Hun Sen’s behavior about [the] South China Sea problem.”
> 
> The 21-year-old gaming-website editor said he had no plans to stop badgering Mr. Hun Sen.
> 
> “I think I’ll post on his wall if I see something about Vietnam-Cambodia relationship or something else about ASEAN and China,” he said.
> 
> paviour@cambodiadaily.com


i don't like when some Vietnamese express their opinion toward Hunsen on his page even they use Vietnamese instead of English language, Cambodia is an indepentdent nation, they can do anything they want, Hunsen acts for their interests so why did some Vietnamese required him? Nonsense. Hunsen will be ousted by Cambodian , I believe that and it is unchangeable. we should prepare for our future, it is better than complaint

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> i don't like when some Vietnamese express their opinion toward Hunsen on his page even they use Vietnamese instead of English language, Cambodia is an indepentdent nation, they can do anything they want, Hunsen acts for their interests so why did some Vietnamese required on him? Nonsense. Hunsen will be ousted by Cambodian , I believe that and it is unchangeable. we should prepare for our future, it is better than complaint


we don't want to see Cambodia return to chaos. Neither do we want to see the Chinese create another bloodshed in the country. We can't ignore who rules Cambodia.


----------



## xiao qi

Viet said:


> we don't want to see Cambodia return to chaos. Neither do we want to see the Chinese create another bloodshed in the country. We can't ignore who rules Cambodia.


we have an idiot neighbor so we haven't responsibility to teach them how to play, They have short-sighted and blame for Vietnamese anything, we don't need to care them anymore. an example: they want to evict Vietnamese-Cambodians in Cambodia and deport them to Vietnam. why don't they think about Cambodian - Vietnamese is living in Vietnam now? 160k Vietnamese in Cambodia compared to 1 million Cambodian in Vietnam. What is in their head if Vietnam does same thing to Cambodian in Vietnam?. If they want to live in an unstable country, let them do.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> we have an idiot neighbor so we haven't responsibility to teach them how to play, They have short-sighted and blame for Vietnamese anything, we don't need to care them anymore. an example: they want to evict Vietnamese-Cambodians in Cambodia and deport them to Vietnam. why don't they think about Cambodian - Vietnamese is living in Vietnam now? 160k Vietnamese in Cambodia compared to 1 million Cambodian in Vietnam. What is in their head if Vietnam does same thing to Cambodian in Vietnam?. If they want to live in an unstable country, let them do.


I am trying to avoid calling them as dumb because people will call me as racist. But they do things that are not understandable. Giving here an example. In old times, cambodian girls before they turned adult were raped by monks. In the eyes of the Chinese, that "tradition" was not a problem at all. All the Chinese businessmen and women care is making business making money. But for Vietnam, that practice was a grave provocation, requiring an intervention. It is just one of many why Vietnam repeatedly intervened in Cambodia.

Another practice is while Chinese have no problem at all to marry Khmer girls, Vietnamese men never do. That is why the Khmer hate Vietnam. They hate Vietnamese although the Chinese nearly brought Cambodia to extermination.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> You totally missing the point about Geopolitics.
> 
> After Europe sanctions, Russia unable to sell oil and gas other than China. They can't sell to India.
> 
> And Russia can't match the pricing of KSA and Iran.
> This situation almost bankrupted Russia. To bypass this situation Russia and Central Asian Republic building NSTC (and not OBOR ) to access warm waters.
> 
> And if you still think Russia is in Chinese pocket, then let me tell you some strategic situation.
> 
> It was Russia that helped India to transfer all know-how and know-why of SLBM to India under Project Sangarika. It was Russia that transfered all know how and know why of marine reactor to India.
> 
> And now Russia going to teach how to build single hull SSN and highly enriched Uranium marine reactor & spherical sonar(from France) to India.
> 
> If the situation is like you say, then why Russia doing so ? Arming an Chinese enemy, not so kool for Chinese.
> 
> But still Chinese unable to say a single word. The good question you should ask why Russia doing so? Even when all things happened that violated NPT and MTCR.
> 
> Here, all the details


U already said it. Russia is bankrupted and will do business with anyone. Y the chinese can't say anything? Because russia is the only energy supplier to china if there is and will be a naval blockade of oil supply from the middle east if war breaks out.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> U already said it. Russia is bankrupted and will do business with anyone.


For some time indeed, but not for long. Wait for Japan and India start to buy gas and oil.



> Y the chinese can't say anything? Because russia is the only energy supplier to china if there is and will be a naval blockade of oil supply from the middle east if war breaks out.


[/Quote]
Russia is the only supplier to China? Are you high? 

And Naval Blockade? Against who? By who? Who do the naval blockade against Iran and KSA? Who do the blockade against UAE?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Can you reveal a bit more about our effort on AESA radar? How far are we from the goal deploying the radar on ships?


The radar was developed by Military Technology Academy (Học viện kỹ thuật quân sự). I personally know a guy in the core developer team. It's only an experimental radar, or technology demonstrator. No official specification was revealed, but we have the basic technology to make smale size AESA radar. The problem is how to build a large size that can be used on naval vessels and/or aircraft.

There was a picture circulating the Internet not so long ago but I was unable to find it.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> For some time indeed, but not for long. Wait for Japan and India start to buy gas and oil.


Russia is the only supplier to China? Are you high?

And Naval Blockade? Against who? By who? Who do the naval blockade against Iran and KSA? Who do the blockade against UAE?[/QUOTE]
Both japan n soon india will be on the u.s camp. The u.s. won't allow both to buy oil to bolster her enemy. When china n u.s fight. The u.s will blockade oil from the middle east for sure. The u.s will also blockade oil from Venezuela too. Where can china get oil from other than russia at whatever cost?


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Both japan n soon india will be on the u.s camp. The u.s. won't allow both to buy oil to bolster her enemy. When china n u.s fight. The u.s will blockade oil from the middle east for sure. The u.s will also blockade oil from Venezuela too. Where can china get oil from other than russia at whatever cost?



Seriously, you dont know anything about today's world. Still trying to apply philosophy of cold war in modern world.

You think India allow blockade in Middle East, when 60% of its own oil of India coming from Middle East?

And US wont allow? In which world you living? India even bought Iranian oil during sanction days.

-


hoangsa74 said:


> Both japan n soon india will be on the u.s camp. The u.s. won't allow both to buy oil to bolster her enemy. When china n u.s fight. The u.s will blockade oil from the middle east for sure. The u.s will also blockade oil from Venezuela too. Where can china get oil from other than russia at whatever cost?



India even voiced against US in Syria. India accepted Russian annexation of Crimea going against US.

You totally dont know a single bit about current geopolitics of asia. And India will be in US camp?

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Seriously, you dont know anything about today's world. Still trying to apply philosophy of cold war in modern world.
> 
> You think India allow blockade in Middle East, when 60% of its own oil of India coming from Middle East?
> 
> And US wont allow? In which world you living? India even bought Iranian oil during sanction days.


I never said the u.s would blockade oil from the middle east bound for india. I mentioned oil bound for china from the mid east genius. This is why it is essential for the u.s to normalize relation with iran to stop her from supplying oil via inland if there is war between u.s n china. I can tell u how much tech transfer india receive in the future from the u.s will depend on how well india behave.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> I never said the u.s would blockade oil from the middle east bound for india. I mentioned oil bound for china from the mid east genius. This is why it is essential for the u.s to normalize relation with iran to stop her from supplying oil via inland if there is war between u.s n china.



And how you check that? You even know how blockade occur?



> I can tell u how much tech transfer india receive in the future from the u.s will depend on how well india behave.



Are you serious still? After technology transfer (if happen, which is unlikely), then what cards US hold against India?
Why you think why India going toward Russia for strategic weapons? You seriously living in world of Cold War.

Did India behaved differently after 123 Deal? Did India behaved differently when got ENR tech? Did India behaved differently after P-8I?

I can tell you, if 123 deal not changed India, then nothing going to change.

What US hold cards against India, lets say 15 years from now on? India become a $10 tn economy by pessimistic stats, then what?

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> And how you check that? You even know how blockade occur?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious still? After technology transfer (if happen, which is unlikely), then what cards US hold against India?
> Why you think why India going toward Russia for strategic weapons? You seriously living in world of Cold War.
> 
> Did India behaved differently after 123 Deal? Did India behaved differently when got ENR tech? Did India behaved differently after P-8I?


Blockade occurs at the straight of malacca ,buddy. India will have to behave if she wants to be supa bowa by 2030. If she does not listen to what the u.s tell her to do she will get stucked in that pipe dream of becoming a developed nation


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> U already said it. Russia is bankrupted and will do business with anyone. Y the chinese can't say anything? Because russia is the only energy supplier to china if there is and will be a naval blockade of oil supply from the middle east if war breaks out.



Russia is bankrupted? That's news to me and to anybody that is well informed. Actually the sanctions have done a lot to reactivate industrial and food production in Russia. They have a very small budget deficit and healthy foreign currency reserves that keep growing. Its the US that is in the brink of bankruptcy with their 20 trillion debt. You read too much propaganda from the corporate dominated US media kid.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Blockade occurs at the straight of malacca ,buddy. India will have to behave if she wants to be supa bowa by 2030. If she does not listen to what the u.s tell her to do she will get stucked in that pipe dream of becoming a developed nation



Blockade occurs in international SLOC? 

In one instance you say India become super power, in other you say India listen US? Decide one thing. Because both are contradictory.
India only shaken hand with US for next 20 years, thats all, and that too very limited.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> Blockade occurs at the straight of malacca ,buddy. India will have to behave if she wants to be supa bowa by 2030. If she does not listen to what the u.s tell her to do she will get stucked in that pipe dream of becoming a developed nation



Where do you get your news man? Its the US that is courting India these days and just about bending over to try to get them to become an ally.


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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Blockade occurs in international SLOC?
> 
> In one instance you say India become super power, in other you say India listen US? Decide one thing. Because both are contradictory.
> 
> India only shaken hand with US for next 20 years, thats all, and that too very limited.


Any ship bound for china will be stopped at the straight of malacca. Meanwhile the u.s can supply her allies with oil from across the pacific. And u have not seen the video of india becoming a super power by 2030 yet.lol


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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Seriously, you dont know anything about today's world. Still trying to apply philosophy of cold war in modern world.



For this guy the clock stopped ticking in 1975.


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> Russia is bankrupted? That's news to me and to anybody that is well informed. Actually the sanctions have done a lot to reactivate industrial and food production in Russia. They have a very small budget deficit and healthy foreign currency reserves that keep growing. Its the US that is in the brink of bankruptcy with their 20 trillion debt. You read too much propaganda from the corporate dominated US media kid.


The last time i check oil has dropped 50% n russia budget depends on oil. Oh. Russia ruble had lost 90% value


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Any ship bound for china will be stopped at the straight of malacca.


Ever you know how blockade happen? If not then read your own history that how in past US done blockades. 



> Meanwhile the u.s can supply her allies with oil from across the pacific. And u have not seen the video of india becoming a super power by 2030 yet.lol


No you are the one who saying India will be superpower. Not me. I am a realistic person, and I know what India will be in 2030.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> The radar was developed by Military Technology Academy (Học viện kỹ thuật quân sự). I personally know a guy in the core developer team. It's only an experimental radar, or technology demonstrator. No official specification was revealed, but we have the basic technology to make smale size AESA radar. The problem is how to build a large size that can be used on naval vessels and/or aircraft.
> 
> There was a picture circulating the Internet not so long ago but I was unable to find it.



An small AESA RADAR could be very useful for a short range air defense system that is self contained in just one vehicle. They normally require 2 radars (like the Pantzir and others), one for search and one for fire control, but one small AESA radar would do the function of both.


----------



## TenLua

hoangsa74 said:


> Russia is the only supplier to China? Are you high?
> 
> And Naval Blockade? Against who? By who? Who do the naval blockade against Iran and KSA? Who do the blockade against UAE?
> Both japan n soon india will be on the u.s camp. The u.s. won't allow both to buy oil to bolster her enemy. When china n u.s fight. The u.s will blockade oil from the middle east for sure. The u.s will also blockade oil from Venezuela too. Where can china get oil from other than russia at whatever cost?



You apparently have no clue what being high feels like. Matter fact, I don't think you have any idea as to what you're saying.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> For this guy the clock stopped ticking in 1975.


Not 1975, this guy living in world of "Nam", where Gulf of Tonkin is about to happen.

These guys never understand that Cold War is long gone, and now no country put her all apples in one basket.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Ever you know how blockade happen? If not then read your own history that how in past US done blockades.
> 
> 
> No you are the one who saying India will be superpower. Not me. I am a realistic person, and I know what India will be in 2030.


sure u can tell me. I know the u.s did blockade north vietnam by mining haiphong. What other method of blockade beside stopping ships bound for a particular country prior to their arrival at a port?


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> The last time i check oil has dropped 50% n russia budget depends on oil. Oh. Russia ruble had lost 90% value



The last time I checked oil and gas was an important part of the budget, but most of the budget does not depend on oil, just 25%.

The last time I checked their currency dropped about 45-50%, but still and even that they had a contraction of their economy, their budget situation, deficit, etc would be a dream come true compared to the US budget.

The fact that their currency dropped allowed them to reactivate local production.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> sure u can tell me. I know the u.s did blockade north vietnam by mining haiphong. What other method of blockade beside stopping ships bound for a particular country prior to their arrival at a port?


Facepalm, you talking about blockading international Sea Lines of Communication where thousands of ship cross daily. Do US board every ship?

And what if ships totally bypass Mallaca Straits and start to go through Indonesian water?


----------



## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> The radar was developed by Military Technology Academy (Học viện kỹ thuật quân sự). I personally know a guy in the core developer team. It's only an experimental radar, or technology demonstrator. No official specification was revealed, but we have the basic technology to make smale size AESA radar. The problem is how to build a large size that can be used on naval vessels and/or aircraft.
> 
> There was a picture circulating the Internet not so long ago but I was unable to find it.


I talked some days ago the Army should pour a part of the $1.2 billion funds into developing AESA radar. Having an experimental radar is a good start.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Facepalm, you talking about blockading international Sea Lines of Communication where thousands of ship cross daily. *Do US board every ship?*
> 
> And what if ships totally bypass Mallaca Straits and *start to go through Indonesian water*?


Yes, if it's necessarily. It's war time here buddy, people die, blood shed. let alone boarding a bunch of ships. 

It doesn't matter if ships go through Indonesian water, if at the end of the day, ships start moving toward Chinese ports they will be hit.



Carlosa said:


> The last time I checked oil and gas was an important part of the budget, but most of the budget does not depend on oil, just 25%.
> 
> The last time I checked their currency dropped about 45-50%, but still and even that they had a contraction of their economy, their budget situation, deficit, etc would be a dream come true compared to the US budget.
> 
> The fact that their currency dropped allowed them to reactivate local production.


oil accounts for 68% of russion export. the ruble has tumbled, mate.


----------



## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> Yes, if it's necessarily. It's war time here buddy, people die, blood shed. let alone boarding a bunch of ships.
> 
> It doesn't matter if ships go through Indonesian water, if at the end of the day, ships start moving toward Chinese ports they will be hit.
> 
> 
> oil accounts for 68% of russion export. the ruble has tumbled, mate.



But is 25% of their budget nevertheless. Food exports (bumper crops this year) and military equipment exports are up. The drop in the ruble was actually beneficial for the Russian economy, it was overvalued and it discouraged exports, now is the reverse of that. And anyway, 50% is not the same as 90%.


----------



## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Yes, if it's necessarily. It's war time here buddy, people die, blood shed. let alone boarding a bunch of ships.
> 
> It doesn't matter if ships go through Indonesian water, if at the end of the day, ships start moving toward Chinese ports they will be hit.


So , just to fight with China? US declare war on whole Asia? I already know who going to win.


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> But is 25% of their budget nevertheless. Food exports (bumper crops this year) and military equipment exports are up. The drop in the ruble was actually beneficial for the Russian economy, it was overvalued and it discouraged exports, now is the reverse of that. And anyway, 50% is not the same as 90%.


According to what you said, Russia should continue be sanctioned, good for them, their oligarch, and their economy


----------



## Viet

how about returning to Vietnam army?

Vietnam is one of the few countries in the world that has women serving as first and second front line soldiers.

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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> According to what you said, Russia should continue be sanctioned, good for them, their oligarch, and their economy



Yeah, much of it, sanctions on investment are not good for them, but sanctions on trade with Russia and the drop of the ruble are excellent for them and they are very happy about it. There is a tremendous push for a self sufficient economy now.


----------



## Viet

women in the army is not new but goes back thousands of years. the most famous ones are the Trung sisters, that led the rebellion against the Han.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> how about returning to Vietnam army?
> 
> Vietnam is one of the few countries in the world that has women serving as first and second front line soldiers.



Vietnamese women are fcking warriors.

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## xiao qi

hoangsa74 said:


> According to what you said, Russia should continue be sanctioned, good for them, their oligarch, and their economy


hey man, stop posting your garbage to insult Vietnam and Vietnamese on an international forum, your age same as my father's age, let me respect you like an old man . If you don't like Vietnamese communist or Vietnam, come to the Vietnamese forum and post your opinion in there.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> hey man, stop posting your garbage to insult Vietnam and Vietnamese on an international forum, your age same as my father's age, let me respect you like an old man . If you don't like Vietnamese communist or Vietnam, come to the Vietnamese forum and post your opinion in there.



Well said, Xiao Qi, the sister warrior !!!!

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> women in the army is not new but goes back thousands of years. the most famous ones are the Trung sisters, that led the rebellion against the Han.


One thing vn has not had is female fighter pilot.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> hey man, stop posting your garbage to insult Vietnam and Vietnamese on an international forum, your age same as my father's age, let me respect you like an old man . If you don't like Vietnamese communist or Vietnam, come to the Vietnamese forum and post your opinion in there.


Bravo. yes slap his face please. a man like him loves it

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## Viet

China Diplomacy & Defence



*South China Sea*

*The question facing Vietnam’s PM on his first China visit: how close to get to Beijing*

Nguyen Xuan Phuc is expected to push for deeper ties and better access to the mainland market, but back home he faces a public wary of the large neighbour, experts say

SHI JIANGTAO
JIANGTAO.SHI@SCMP.COM
PUBLISHED : Saturday, 10 September, 2016





Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, who took over in April. Photo: Reuters


Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc on Saturday started his first visit to China since taking office in April, a trip aimed at mending ties frayed by the South China Sea dispute.

Diplomatic observers say Phuc’s six-day trip, which comes on the heels of a similar visit by Vietnam’s defence minister Ngo Xuan Lich last week, shows the communist neighbours are slowly rebuilding trust despite simmering tensions over the maritime row.

Phuc said Vietnam remained concerned about North Korea’s nuclear missile programme, Xinhua reported.

Apart from meeting his Chinese counterpart Li Keqiang and other leaders in Beijing, Phuc is scheduled to attend a trade and investment summit involving China and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Nanning, Guangxi.

*How Vietnam has kept China at bay over thousands of years*

While Beijing wants to use the visit to take measure of Phuc’s new government, leaders in Hanoi are keen to maintain constructive relations with Beijing, even amid differences on the contested waters, according to Phuong Nguyen, an expert from the Washington-based Centre for Strategic and International Studies.

Professor Carl Thayer, of the University of New South Wales in Australia, said the current leadership of Vietnam, a key rival claimant to the waters, had sought to isolate the dispute from its broader relationship with China.

“China and Vietnam will reaffirm their comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership with a special stress on economic ties – trade and investment – and bilateral consultations on the South China Sea under the agreed basic principles guiding the settlement of maritime disputes,” Thayer said.

Vietnam is pressing China for greater access to its domestic market

CARL THAYER, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEW SOUTH WALES

Resolving Vietnam’s massive trade deficit with China is also expected to be high on Phuc’s agenda.

According to the Vietnam Chamber of Commerce and Industry, bilateral trade hit US$32.3 billion in the first six months of the year, up nearly 2 per cent year on year.

Of the total, Vietnam spent US$23.2 billion on imports from China, down 3 per cent year on year, and earned US$9.1 billion in exports to its largest trading partner, up 13.7 per cent from a year earlier.

“This cannot be resolved in the short term, but Vietnam is pressing China for greater access to its domestic market and better conditions for Vietnamese investment in China,” Thayer said.

Analysts noted bilateral ties had yet to fully recover from the diplomatic stand-off in 2014 over a Chinese deep-water oil rig deployed in the disputed waters.






The Haiyang Shiyou oil rig that China deployed in the South China Sea, angering Vietnam. Photo: AP


“The oil rig crisis in 2014 severely damaged strategic trust between the two sides, and it’s difficult to go back to the way things were. But over the past year, Beijing and Hanoi have rebuilt high-level communication and stepped up confidence-building measures,” Nguyen said.

The two nations clashed over the Paracel Islands in the 1970s and fought a brief but bloody war over border disputes in 1979.

Hanoi is now on constant alert because of what it perceives as uncertainty surrounding future Chinese actions in the sea

PHUONG NGUYEN, CENTRE FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES

“The bilateral relationship has stabilised, but Hanoi is now on constant alert because of what it perceives as uncertainty surrounding future Chinese actions in the sea. Besides the South China Sea, Hanoi also feels pressured by expanding Chinese political and economic influence in its two other immediate neighbours, Laos and Cambodia,” Nguyen said.

Joshua Kurlantzick, from the US-based Council on Foreign Relations, noted the international arbitration ruling on the maritime dispute, which denied China’s expansive claims, had cast fresh uncertainty over ties.

“Vietnam basically supported [the ruling], but the new Philippine president has not embraced the tribunal’s decision as much as his predecessor would, so I think that leaves Vietnam a little out in the open,” he said.

Beijing was certainly worried by Hanoi’s growing defence ties with Tokyo and New Delhi and the fact that Vietnam was now one of the biggest arms buyers in the world, Kulantzick said.





In this file photo from May 2014, Vietnamese living in Hong Kong hold Vietnam's national flag during a protest against Beijing’s territorial claims in the South China Sea. Photo: Reuters


During his visit to Hanoi last week en route to the G20 Summit in Hangzhou, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi offered to provide a US$500 million loan for defence cooperation.

Analysts said the Vietnamese government was under domestic pressure to stand up to Beijing amid growing anti-Chinese sentiment at home.

“Since the 12th national party congress in January, Vietnam has become more forthright in stating its position even when it is at odds with China,” Thayer said.

Although China was Vietnam’s most important bilateral partner due to their common land and maritime border and close trade relationship, Vietnam did not want to be drawn into the orbit of any major power, Thayer said.

*China ‘may need a rethink’ as Vietnam moves closer to US*

“At the same time Vietnam wants all major powers to have equities in Vietnam and to remain engaged to balance other major powers,” he said. In a diplomatic balancing act to counter China, Phuc has already made trips to Russia and Japan.

Pushing back against China had formed the core of Vietnam’s national identity, Nguyen said.

“It takes enmeshing the US, Japan, India, and Russia in order for Vietnam to keep Chinese influence at bay,” she said. “Hanoi will continue to place emphasis on historical links between the two communist parties and show deference to Beijing, while keeping it on its toes by engaging increasingly with the West and rising Asian powers.”

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## William Hung

Farhan Bohra said:


> You totally missing the point about Geopolitics.
> 
> After Europe sanctions, Russia unable to sell oil and gas other than China. They can't sell to India.
> 
> And Russia can't match the pricing of KSA and Iran.
> This situation almost bankrupted Russia. To bypass this situation Russia and Central Asian Republic building NSTC (and not OBOR ) to access warm waters.
> 
> And if you still think Russia is in Chinese pocket, then let me tell you some strategic situation.
> 
> It was Russia that helped India to transfer all know-how and know-why of SLBM to India under Project Sangarika. It was Russia that transfered all know how and know why of marine reactor to India.
> 
> And now Russia going to teach how to build single hull SSN and highly enriched Uranium marine reactor & spherical sonar(from France) to India.
> 
> If the situation is like you say, then why Russia doing so ? Arming an Chinese enemy, not so kool for Chinese.
> 
> But still Chinese unable to say a single word. The good question you should ask why Russia doing so? Even when all things happened that violated NPT and MTCR.
> 
> Here, all the details



Sorry, but when did I ever said Russia is in Chinese pocket??

As for your question of why Russia did all those things? I have already given the answer, for Russia’s self-interest. Same thing why Russia armed China, for Russia’s self-interest. Same thing China developing stronger tie with Russia, Japan with SEA, US pivot to Asia, all for their own self-interest. And for the same reason why India planning to develope strategic tie with Vietnam, for its self-interest. The point was that Russia’s self-interest, such as the one mentioned in the article, now conflict with Vietnam’s interest, and Russia will do the common sense thing which is to prioritise its own interest over anyone else, and that include VN.


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## Viet

Elisabeth Phu. She has come from a long way, leaving Vietnam, when she was 3, on a fisher boat with her parents. A refugee girl. Like many other Vietnamese did in the years of chaos, hunger and persecution. Now she works since a while in the White House as Director for East Asia, South east Asia, Oceania security affairs. An aide to Barack Obama.














In the center of a superpower 
*





*






her family

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## Carlosa

Pictures of the land reclamation in West London Reef - Đảo Đá Tây

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## Aqsuperman

There is a wide range of infantry rifle in Vietnamese service, limited and general scale. Some are brand - new, others are used and many have gone through considerable rebuilt to extend their usefulness. Still, the logistic tail should have been modified to support them in term of parts and ammunition.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> An small AESA RADAR could be very useful for a short range air defense system that is self contained in just one vehicle. They normally require 2 radars (like the Pantzir and others), one for search and one for fire control, but one small AESA radar would do the function of both.


If we have success in making long range AESA radar, then air defense destroyer is on the horizon 

I just came across with this. Interesting remark: Russia's representative to Vietnam Konstantin Vasilievich Vnukov states, it is within Vietnam sovereignty rights to acquire weapons it needs for self defense. Previously media speculates Vietnam seeks to purchase the new modern medium range ground to air missile system Buk-M3. The missile system is capable to destroy any type of airborne target in existence today. Also, it can be used against naval and ground targets, is extremely resistant to enemy electronic countermeasures.


Buk-M3 with one block of 6 missiles







Buk-M3 with two blocks of 12 missiles

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> If we have success in making long range AESA radar, then air defense destroyer is on the horizon
> 
> I just came across with this. Interesting remark: Russia's representative to Vietnam Konstantin Vasilievich Vnukov states, it is within Vietnam sovereignty rights to acquire weapons it needs for self defense. Previously media speculates Vietnam seeks to purchase the new modern medium range ground to air missile system Buk-M3. The missile system is capable to destroy any type of airborne target in existence today. Also, it can be used against naval and ground targets, is extremely resistant to enemy electronic countermeasures.
> 
> 
> Buk-M3 with one block of 6 missiles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buk-M3 with two blocks of 12 missiles



Nice but Barak-8 and Aster 30 are much better and in the case of Barak-8 its cheaper also. VN should follow Israel on this. Spyder and Barak-8 for short and medium range and S-300/400 for long range and terminal ABM.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Nice but Barak-8 and Aster 30 are much better and in the case of Barak-8 its cheaper also. VN should follow Israel on this. Spyder and Barak-8 for short and medium range and S-300/400 for long range and terminal ABM.


IAF's Version with rotating Arudhra radar.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> IAF's Version with rotating Arudhra radar.



Nice one. Vietnam should get it.


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> Nice one. Vietnam should get it.


Israel missile yes but not indian radar


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Israel missile yes but not indian radar


But the whole Barak-8 manufacturing going on in BDL, India? Surprised?

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> But the whole Barak-8 manufacturing going on in BDL, India? Surprised?


Still the viet must not buy indian radar. They have much better choice.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Still the viet must not buy indian radar. They have much better choice.


Which choice? You are seriously a Grade A moron.

The SAM is not apple or orange. The SAM come with whole package. With TEL, surveillance radar, FCS radar, power generators, C&C unit etc etc.

Who do the integration of Barak-8 with other radar? You?

And which missile you talking about Israeli? When half of sensors and whole propulsion is Indian, which even manufactured in India by BDL.

So, wtf you talking about?



hoangsa74 said:


> Still the viet must not buy indian radar. They have much better choice.


Lol, even canisters of Barak-8 is manufactured by L&T,India. This is the whole picture of a SAM.


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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Which choice? You are seriously a Grade A moron.
> 
> The SAM is not apple or orange. The SAM come with whole package. With TEL, surveillance radar, FCS radar, power generators, C&C unit etc etc.
> 
> Who do the integration of Barak-8 with other radar? You?
> 
> And which missile you talking about Israeli? When half of sensors and whole propulsion is India, which even manufactured in India by BDL.
> 
> So, wtf you talking about?[/QUOTE


The viet already bought israel radar for their spyder n they can buy israel star radar for their barack missle. Why would they bother buying indian junks radar?



Farhan Bohra said:


> Which choice? You are seriously a Grade A moron.
> 
> The SAM is not apple or orange. The SAM come with whole package. With TEL, surveillance radar, FCS radar, power generators, C&C unit etc etc.
> 
> Who do the integration of Barak-8 with other radar? You?
> 
> And which missile you talking about Israeli? When half of sensors and whole propulsion is Indian, which even manufactured in India by BDL.
> 
> So, wtf you talking about?
> 
> 
> Lol, even canisters of Barak-8 is manufactured by L&T,India. This is the whole picture of a SAM.


Congraz for making the canister. Barak is an Israeli sam. Indian contributions is next to nothing

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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> The viet already bought israel radar for their spyder n they can buy israel star radar for their barack missle. Why would they bother buying indian junks radar?


How you know that is junk? Please back up your claims? 

Was you involved in ground trials conducted by Israel in 2013. Was you involved with trials that was done in India some month ago. 

If not, then wtf you saying? Dreaming?



hoangsa74 said:


> Congraz for making the canister. Barak is an Israeli sam. Indian contributions is next to nothing


Okey, 



hoangsa74 said:


> The viet already bought israel radar for their spyder n they can buy israel star radar for their barack missle. Why would they bother buying indian junks radar?
> 
> 
> Congraz for making the canister. Barak is an Israeli sam. Indian contributions is next to nothing


The Barak-2, also known as Barak-8 in Israel, will be available from 2013 in two versions--the 70km-range vertically-launched medium-range surface-to-air missile (MR-SAM) variant for the Indian Navy, and a 120km-range long-range (LR-SAM) variant for the Indian Air Force (IAF). Both variants are presently being co-developed by a consortium of entities that include India’s Hyderabad-based Defence Research & Development Laboratory (DRDL), Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) and Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) on one hand, and a consortium of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and TATA Advanced Systems, called NOVA Integrated Systems Pvt Ltd. The MR-SAM variant is also likely to be inducted into service by the Indian Army in future. The MR-SAM’s critical design review was completed by early May 2008 and its DRDL-developed two-stage pulsed rocket motor was successfully test-fired earlier the same year. The first six sets of these rocket motors were shipped to IAI by the DRDL in July 2008 for further test and integration activities. Series production is due to begin in 2011 at the Hyderabad-based facilities of BDL and NOVA Integrated Systems. From the Indian side, the principal R & D players for both variants of the Barak-2 are the DRDL, Hyderabad-based Research Centre Imarat (RCI) and Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL), and the Bangalore-based Electronics R & D Establishment (LRDE). Israeli companies participating in the joint venture are the MLM and ELTA Systems business divisions of IAI. While IAI/MLM is responsible for developing the guided-missiles along with the DRDL, RCI and ASL, IAI/ELTA will co-develop along with the LRDE and BEL the command-and-control system and related fire-control system (for both variants of the Barak-2).

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2011/04/hardened-air-cover-with-mr-sams-lr-sams.html

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Nice but Barak-8 and Aster 30 are much better and in the case of Barak-8 its cheaper also. VN should follow Israel on this. Spyder and Barak-8 for short and medium range and S-300/400 for long range and terminal ABM.


Barak and Aster are ship bound missiles, aren't they? Buk is something that is bound on the ground. Ok I see there are many variants.


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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> How you know that is junk? Please back up your claims?
> 
> Was you involved in ground trials conducted by Israel in 2013. Was you involved with trials that was done in India some month ago.
> 
> If not, then wtf you saying? Dreaming?
> 
> 
> Okey,
> 
> 
> The Barak-2, also known as Barak-8 in Israel, will be available from 2013 in two versions--the 70km-range vertically-launched medium-range surface-to-air missile (MR-SAM) variant for the Indian Navy, and a 120km-range long-range (LR-SAM) variant for the Indian Air Force (IAF). Both variants are presently being co-developed by a consortium of entities that include India’s Hyderabad-based Defence Research & Development Laboratory (DRDL), Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) and Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) on one hand, and a consortium of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and TATA Advanced Systems, called NOVA Integrated Systems Pvt Ltd. The MR-SAM variant is also likely to be inducted into service by the Indian Army in future. The MR-SAM’s critical design review was completed by early May 2008 and its DRDL-developed two-stage pulsed rocket motor was successfully test-fired earlier the same year. The first six sets of these rocket motors were shipped to IAI by the DRDL in July 2008 for further test and integration activities. Series production is due to begin in 2011 at the Hyderabad-based facilities of BDL and NOVA Integrated Systems. From the Indian side, the principal R & D players for both variants of the Barak-2 are the DRDL, Hyderabad-based Research Centre Imarat (RCI) and Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL), and the Bangalore-based Electronics R & D Establishment (LRDE). Israeli companies participating in the joint venture are the MLM and ELTA Systems business divisions of IAI. While IAI/MLM is responsible for developing the guided-missiles along with the DRDL, RCI and ASL, IAI/ELTA will co-develop along with the LRDE and BEL the command-and-control system and related fire-control system (for both variants of the Barak-2).
> 
> http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2011/04/hardened-air-cover-with-mr-sams-lr-sams.html


It's common sense, genius. Nobody buys indian radar or even indian weapons in general. Just ask the viet. They have been buying russian n israeli radar for years. Barak is just a project that indian pays israel scientists to develop for india, india contribute next to nothing.

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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> It's common sense, genius. Nobody buys indian radar or even indian weapons in general. Just ask the viet. They have been buying russian n israeli radar for years. Barak is just a project that indian pays israel scientists to develop for india, india contribute next to nothing.



Boy, read the link. Do you have some problem in reading?



hoangsa74 said:


> Nobody buys indian radar or even indian weapons in general. Just ask the viet.


So, why Vietnam shown interest in BrahMos, not only in Block 1, but also in Block-3 and BrahMos M?


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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> It's common sense, genius. Nobody buys indian radar or even indian weapons in general. Just ask the viet. They have been buying russian n israeli radar for years. Barak is just a project that indian pays israel scientists to develop for india, india contribute next to nothing.


Genius we want to learn from India. I say over and over, not buying weapon but learning how to make it. India does it. She makes tank, airplane, rocket, destroyer, submarine and aircraft carrier. What is wrong not to follow the same path?

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Barak and Aster are ship bound missiles, aren't they? Buk is something that is bound on the ground. Ok I see there are many variants.


Barak actually an Israeli name of that project, actually in India nobody named that project. Only named as LR-SAM and MR-SAM.

MR-SAM is for navy, and LR-SAM is for IAF. IAF's version use Arudhara radar (developed after ToT of EL/M-2084), the missile range is 120 Km. And lot of people confuse because of this. 

Here the trial of IAF's version

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Boy, read the link. Do you have some problem in reading?
> 
> 
> So, why Vietnam shown interest in BrahMos, not only in Block 1, but also in Block-3 and BrahMos M?


Yes, I had read the link before you posted the link. Barak is an Israeli sam that India hired Israel to do the work; no matter how you spin it. 

Please don't talk about the brahmos. the only one who keep touting about the brahmos is india herself. No official statement from Vietnamese side yet.

The brahmos is the same thing. India received Russian license to produce the EXPORT version of the Orniks ie the Yakhont. Let's be clear here, the Yakhont is a downgraded export version of the Ornik. The brahmos if sold is a downgraded version of the.........brahmos itself, lol. Why would Vietnam bother buying a missile that is more downgraded than the Yakhont itself? LOL

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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Yes, I had read the link before you posted the link. Barak is an Israeli sam that India hired Israel to do the work; no matter how you spin it.
> 
> Please don't talk about the brahmos. the only one who keep touting about the brahmos is india herself. No official statement from Vietnamese side yet.
> 
> The brahmos is the same thing. India received Russian license to produce the EXPORT version of the Orniks ie the Yakhont. Let's be clear here, the Yakhont is a downgraded export version of the Ornik. The brahmos if sold is a downgraded version of the.........brahmos itself, lol. Why would Vietnam bother buying a missile that is more downgraded than the Yakhont itself? LOL



I have nothing to say more






You win, I loose.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> I have nothing to say more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You win, I loose.


What do you win? Trying to sell Vietnam a missile that is even more downgraded than the Yakhont?


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> What do you win? Trying to sell Vietnam a missile that is even more downgraded than the Yakhont?


No no you are right. BrahMos is inferior. 
Because seeker of BrahMos developed by India & Israel. Because that is the only one to operate under mountainous region. Because that is the only one to do terrain hugging and S maneuvers.

You totally right Yankhot is superior, but as India is from Mars and an idiot. Thats why India buy inferior product. Totally accepted, you are always right.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> No no you are right. BrahMos is inferior.
> Because seeker of BrahMos developed by India & Israel. Because that is the only one to operate under mountainous region. Because that is the only one to do terrain hugging and S maneuvers.
> 
> You totally right Yankhot is superior, but as India is from Mars and an idiot. Thats why India buy inferior product. Totally accepted, you are always right.


You can claim the flight path of the Brahmos is superior to the Yakhont if you want. It all matters to your customers if they want to believe u or not. So far, Brahmos has no export. Not even ONE single missile has found a customer. Please don't give us any more excuses.

So far,
Uran-E 400 Brahmos 0
Yakhont 40, Brahmos 0

That's the ratio of Russian missiles in the viet inventory compared to India.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> You can claim the flight path of the Brahmos is superior to the Yakhont if you want. It all matters to your customers if they want to believe u or not. So far, Brahmos has no export. Not even ONE single missile has found a customer. Please don't give us any more excuses.
> 
> So far,
> Uran-E 400 Brahmos 0
> Yakhont 40, Brahmos 0
> 
> That's the ratio of Russian missiles in the viet inventory compared to India.


Excuse? You know the reason?  

Indian Army, IAF and Navy all 3 are customers. And more than 1500 missiles order is pending.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Excuse? You know the reason?
> 
> Indian Army, IAF and Navy all 3 are customers. And more than 1500 missiles order is pending.


same old same old excuse. India is in desperate need that she can't even spare 10 missiles for the viet, lol


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> same old same old excuse. India is in desperate need that she can't even spare 10 missiles for the viet, lol


Obviously, that only happen if GoI intervene, which happened in last month. 

And if you think IA, IAF and Indian Navy all three chosen sub standard missile. Then I was right, you are a grade A moron.



hoangsa74 said:


> You can claim the flight path of the Brahmos is superior to the Yakhont if you want. It all matters to your customers if they want to believe u or not. So far, Brahmos has no export. Not even ONE single missile has found a customer. Please don't give us any more excuses.
> 
> So far,
> Uran-E 400 Brahmos 0
> Yakhont 40, Brahmos 0
> 
> That's the ratio of Russian missiles in the viet inventory compared to India.


And if you still want to be moronic. 

Then I say just check how many Yankhot was produced, and how many BrahMos are manufactured.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Obviously, that only happen if GoI intervene, which happened in last month.
> 
> And if you think IA, IAF and Indian Navy all three chosen sub standard missile. Then I was right, you are a grade A moron.


it does not matter what indian choose which missile; what matter is the viet is not choosing indian missile or radar...even with the 600 million loan shark. lol



Farhan Bohra said:


> Obviously, that only happen if GoI intervene, which happened in last month.
> 
> And if you think IA, IAF and Indian Navy all three chosen sub standard missile. Then I was right, you are a grade A moron.
> 
> 
> And if you still want to be moronic.
> 
> Then I say just check how many Yankhot was produced, and how many BrahMos are manufactured.


lol, yakhont is a downgraded version of the orniks for export. India bought the license and produce it under the name "brahmos". Yakhont have found customers such as Indonesia, Vietnam, Syria. Brahmos has found ZERO customer, not even with a 600 million loan shark.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> it does not matter what indian choose which missile; what matter is the viet is not choosing indian missile or radar...even with the 600 million loan shark. lol
> 
> 
> lol, yakhont is a downgraded version of the orniks for export. India bought the license and produce it under the name "brahmos". Yakhont have found customers such as Indonesia, Vietnam, Syria. Brahmos has found ZERO customer, not even with a 600 million loan shark.


I am pretty sure brahmos comes. It is a matter of time. Vietnam submariners are trained in Russia and India. Now you go figure out why?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Barak and Aster are ship bound missiles, aren't they? Buk is something that is bound on the ground. Ok I see there are many variants.



Both of them have naval and ground versions.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> it does not matter what indian choose which missile; what matter is the viet is not choosing indian missile or radar...even with the 600 million loan shark. lol
> 
> 
> lol, yakhont is a downgraded version of the orniks for export. India bought the license and produce it under the name "brahmos". Yakhont have found customers such as Indonesia, Vietnam, Syria. Brahmos has found ZERO customer, not even with a 600 million loan shark.


I am done with you. 

I am not going to bang my head on wall again and again.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> I am done with you.
> 
> I am not going to bang my head on wall again and again.


You were very patient with that butthurt RVN boy, my friend. I'm impressed

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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> You were very patient with that butthurt RVN boy, my friend. I'm impressed



My father fought for the south and incurred many wounds. He still has shrapnel in his legs. What I don't understand is, if my dad is not bitter, why is hoangsa so butt hurt still? Matter fact he blamed the south for losing the war.

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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> My father fought for the south and incurred many wounds. He still has shrapnel in his legs. What I don't understand is, if my dad is not bitter, why is hoangsa so butt hurt still? Matter fact he blamed the south for losing the war.


That's what happens to most people who fled the South in 1975. 

The people stayed behind were less bitter and many ex-RVN soldiers fought in the rank of VPA from 1979 onward. I think that hoangsa is just a troll, or blinded by his own propaganda.

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## cochine

Silent Knight said:


> That's what happens to most people who fled the South in 1975.
> 
> The people stayed behind were less bitter and many ex-RVN soldiers fought in the rank of VPA from 1979 onward. I think that hoangsa is just a troll, or blinded by his own propaganda.



Nguyen Thanh Trung RVN pilot in 1975.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> You were very patient with that butthurt RVN boy, my friend. I'm impressed



@Farhan Bohra Extremely patient indeed !

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## Silent Knight

kecho said:


> Nguyen Thanh Trung RVN pilot in 1975.


Nguyễn Thành Trung was an agent of North Vietnam so that case isn't counted


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## Viet

Picture of the day. Photo courtesy to AFP. The picture is somewhat related to the news of the day. Two little bigger boys play a high profile war game in the South China Sea. one of the series of large military exercises the Chinese stage this year. And many more are expected to come.

But after I notice where the drill takes place, I nearly fall down from the chair by laughing. In the waters off quang dong province! Wait a moment. Is it too far from the center of the South China Sea? Geographically it is East China Sea, isn't it?

Anyway, after I made a more or less neutral comment on a thread about the drill opened by a Chinese poster, seen 1,000 times here already, one of the promoted Mods deleted my post immediately. He seems having little humour for my post. Previously I received two warnings for my posts when I replied to provocations. I think that is neither fair nor funny.

As for the Russians, they don't want to anger Vietnam too much, hence the drill takes place far away. Interesting, Russia announces a drill with Vietnam is planned on Russian territory. Anyone knows when and where?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Picture of the day. Photo courtesy to AFP. The picture is somewhat related to the news of the day. Two little bigger boys play a high profile war game in the South China Sea. one of the series of large military exercises the Chinese stage this year. And many more are expected to come.
> 
> But after I notice where the drill takes place, I nearly fall down from the chair by laughing. In the waters off quang dong province! Wait a moment. Is it too far from the center of the South China Sea? Geographically it is East China Sea, isn't it?
> 
> Anyway, after I made a more or less neutral comment on a thread about the drill opened by a Chinese poster, seen 1,000 times here already, one of the promoted Mods deleted my post immediately. He seems having little humour for my post. Previously I received two warnings for my posts when I replied to provocations. I think that is neither fair nor funny.
> 
> As for the Russians, they don't want to anger Vietnam too much, hence the drill takes place far away. Interesting, Russia announces a drill with Vietnam is planned on Russian territory. Anyone knows when and where?



What moderator gave you the warnings and deleted your post?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> What moderator gave you the warnings and deleted your post?


I received from our old friend Hu a considerable amount of warnings, but from the newfound friend Shot just one yet. maybe because I become very hesitant to post anything more in normal threads. who deleted my post lately? well, you can guess here 

https://defence.pk/threads/china-ru...hina-sea-september-12-19.448891/#post-8676559

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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> You were very patient with that butthurt RVN boy, my friend. I'm impressed


He is not American? :/



Viet said:


> I received from our old friend Hu a considerable amount of warnings, but from the newfound friend Shot just one yet. maybe because I become very hesitant to post anything more in normal threads. who deleted my post lately? well, you can guess here
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/china-ru...hina-sea-september-12-19.448891/#post-8676559


There is a reason you don't find American, British, Russian or Vietnamese mod in this forum.


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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> He is not American? :/
> 
> 
> There is a reason you don't find American, British, Russian or Vietnamese mod in this forum.



Vietnamese American.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Vietnamese American.


He was born in America? Or got citizenship for being a RVN?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I received from our old friend Hu a considerable amount of warnings, but from the newfound friend Shot just one yet. maybe because I become very hesitant to post anything more in normal threads. who deleted my post lately? well, you can guess here
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/china-ru...hina-sea-september-12-19.448891/#post-8676559



Always the same story, chinese moderators being biased in favor of their chinese comrades and applying a double standard.

@xiao qi was also banned by the shotgun guy because she dared defend herself. Of course nothing happened to the chinese guy that she was fighting with.



Farhan Bohra said:


> He was born in America? Or got citizenship for being a RVN?



Not sure.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> He was born in America? Or got citizenship for being a RVN?


he is probably born in Vietnam and settled down in America later after 1975. so the majority of Viet people living in America. they came in two waves. the first wave when the Republic of Vietnam collapsed in April 1975. the second wave when united Vietnam slipped into chaos, following a combination of two front wars, China in the north and Cambodia in the south, domestic economic lunacy, political persecution, western political isolation and economic sanction. Once in America, most receive US citizenship.









Carlosa said:


> Always the same story, chinese moderators being biased in favor of their chinese comrades and applying a double standard.
> 
> @xiao qi was also banned by the shotgun guy because she dared defend herself. Of course nothing happened to the chinese guy that she was fighting with.
> 
> Not sure.


I am not sure if it is the goal they want to achieve: turning this forum into a cheap Chinese propaganda tabloid. what is the point of having a China & Far East section, if 95 per cent are Chinese topics and the rest 5 per cent is more or less about Chinese posters bashing other non Chinese nations?

If there are no sticky threads, we have no voice. similar to the rest people outside China. amazing to see how some practice a form of racism.

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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> He was born in America? Or got citizenship for being a RVN?


Probably the latter, hence the butthurt stuff.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> he is probably born in Vietnam and settled down in America later after 1975. so the majority of Viet people living in America. they came in two waves. the first wave when the Republic of Vietnam collapsed in April 1975. the second wave when united Vietnam slipped into chaos, following a combination of two front wars, China in the north and Cambodia in the south, domestic economic lunacy, political persecution, western political isolation and economic sanction. Once in America, most receive US citizenship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure if it is the goal they want to achieve: turning this forum into a cheap Chinese propaganda tabloid. what is the point of having a China & Far East section, if 95 per cent are Chinese topics and the rest 5 per cent is more or less about Chinese posters bashing other non Chinese nations?
> 
> If there are no sticky threads, we have no voice. similar to the rest people outside China. amazing to see how some practice a form of racism.



China should have its own forum same as India and the far east section should be for all the other countries in the region.


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## cochine

Silent Knight said:


> Nguyễn Thành Trung was an agent of North Vietnam so that case isn't counted



Many oversea Vietnamese is agent of TC2 of SRV.


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## Silent Knight

Vietnamese officials in an informal talk with their Ukrainian counterparts. The Ukrainian has transferred full technical document of the Su-27 fighters, allowing Vietnam to perform full maintenance and overhaul of the existing Su-27 fleet without any foreign assistance.

They're also responsible for maintaining several batches of R-27 air-to-air missile.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> China should have its own forum same as India and the far east section should be for all the other countries in the region.


don´t expect too much. I called on separation of this section years ago. the mods know if the section is divided, nobody of us would bother to visit Chinese section. chinese and their cheerleaders will have little fun with their section, which will become a desert, experiencing a slow death 



Silent Knight said:


> Vietnamese officials in an informal talk with their Ukrainian counterparts. The Ukrainian has transferred full technical document of the Su-27 fighters, allowing Vietnam to perform full maintenance and overhaul of the existing Su-27 fleet without any foreign assistance.
> 
> They're also responsible for maintaining several batches of R-27 air-to-air missile.


nice, what about Su-30? we have just a squadron of Su-27.

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## Aqsuperman

Silent Knight said:


> Vietnamese officials in an informal talk with their Ukrainian counterparts. The Ukrainian has transferred full technical document of the Su-27 fighters, allowing Vietnam to perform full maintenance and overhaul of the existing Su-27 fleet without any foreign assistance.
> 
> They're also responsible for maintaining several batches of R-27 air-to-air missile.



So i guess this is before 2014 ? Because in this period Ukraine is going through great disturbance. Or may be we should push hard and squeeze something nice from them too :v

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## Silent Knight

Aqsuperman said:


> So i guess this is before 2014 ? Because in this period Ukraine is going through great disturbance. Or may be we should push hard and squeeze something nice from them too :v


Probably before 2014, as the rumor about tons of Su-27 document has been circulating since 2000s.



Viet said:


> nice, what about Su-30? we have just a squadron of Su-27.


We have to buy technical documents directly from the Russian, as Ukraine doesn't have the Su-30. There are several specialists from KnAAZ who are living semi-permanently in Su-30MK2V bases.

We currently can self-maintain the Su-30 fleet and perform some parts of the overhaul, but the deep overhauling is still handled by the Russians with observation from our technicians.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Probably before 2014, as the rumor about tons of Su-27 document has been circulating since 2000s.
> 
> 
> We have to buy technical documents directly from the Russian, as Ukraine doesn't have the Su-30. There are several specialists from KnAAZ who are living semi-permanently in Su-30MK2V bases.
> 
> We currently can self-maintain the Su-30 fleet and perform some parts of the overhaul, but the deep overhauling is still handled by the Russians with observation from our technicians.


Ok understood. Should we take rumours of Su-35 for the airforce seriously?


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## Viet

Some nice pictures during the sea trails of Kilo attack submarine *Bà Rịa-Vũng Tàu*

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## Viet

Only seen in Vietnam

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Ok understood. Should we take rumours of Su-35 for the airforce seriously?


I don't really have solid evidence to either support or deny that rumor. However, given the publicized information, the Su-30SM is a more likely candidate.

But some inside sources do mention the Su-35S.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> I don't really have solid evidence to either support or deny that rumor. However, given the publicized information, the Su-30SM is a more likely candidate.
> 
> But some inside sources do mention the Su-35S.



@Viet People from the Russian forum told me that companies that make equipment for the SU-35 were told that Vietnam will order 12 planes. This is reliable insider information.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @Viet People from the Russian forum told me that companies that make equipment for the SU-35 were told that Vietnam will order 12 planes. This is reliable insider information.


a squadron of Su-35 costs $1 billion. That's a lot of money and needs to be considered seriously. Oh man I would wish we don't need to pursue such arms race. Money would be better spent elsewhere, from building roads to hospital to kindergarten.

Su-30 on patrol in the spratly

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## TenLua

How do you embed pictures? Where it's part of your post...


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## Carlosa

Thanks a lot Russian Tovarish....

*Russian Navy Helps Chinese Train to Seize Islands in South China Sea*
*http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pat...s-chinese-train-seize-islands-south-china-sea
*
(CNSNews.com) – Chinese and Russian warships, aircraft and troops begin eight days of joint maneuvers in the South China Sea on Monday, including “joint island seizing” in an area where China and the U.S. repeatedly have sparred over freedom of navigation amid multiple territorial disputes.

It will be the sixth Russia-China naval exercise since 2012, but the first to be held in the South China Sea, among the most strategically important and hotly-contested waters on the planet.

People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) spokesman Liang Yang said the wargames would include “joint island seizing,” anti-submarine operations, as well as defense and rescue missions.

Missile and artillery live-fire drills, island landing, island defense and island offense exercises would be carried out, he said.

Eighteen Russian and Chinese ships and submarines, 21 aircraft, hundreds of marines and amphibious armored equipment are involved in the exercises. Chinese ships are from its South China Sea fleet while participating Russian vessels include two anti-submarine destroyers serving with the Russian Pacific Fleet, the _Admiral Tributs_ and _Admiral Vinogradov_.

Liang said the exercises would improve coordination between the two navies and advance the Russia-China strategic partnership.

“Holding the drills in the conditions maximally close to combat, is aimed at increasing the potential in the sphere of our common security,” PLAN deputy commander Vice Admiral Wang Hai said at a ceremony welcoming the visitors to Zhangjiang in southern China’s Guangdong province.

Moscow’s Sputnik news agency quoted Wang’s Russian counterpart, Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov, as saying the aim of the partnership was to ensure “the security of peaceful activities across the world’s seas and oceans and in the prevention of dangerous challenges.”

It said the drills would conclude with a simultaneous amphibious and air operation on an island held by a simulated enemy.

Earlier, a Russian Navy spokesman insisted that the exercises were not directed against any “third party” or linked to the region’s geopolitics.

The U.S. is not a claimant in any of the South China Sea territorial disputes, but several of its allies and friends in the region are, including Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and the Philippines, a treaty ally.

China claims sovereignty over virtually the entire South China Sea, including resource-rich areas that fall within the exclusive economic zones (EEZs) of surrounding nations. It has alarmed those countries and the U.S., by building and militarizing artificial islands in support of its claims.

The U.S. Navy continues to carry out what it calls “freedom of navigation” patrols in those waters, to Beijing’s publicly-expressed annoyance.

On the sidelines of the recent G20 summit in Hangzhou, Russian President Vladimir Putin raised eyebrows by voicing support for Beijing’s stance on the South China Sea.

After meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping on September 4, Putin said Russia believes “that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues.”

“The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive,” he told reporters, clearly referring to the United States, and echoing a position China has repeatedly declared.

Going further, Putin backed China’s rejection of a ruling over the summer by an international tribunal denying Beijing’s claims to waters within the Philippines’ EEZ.

The Philippines brought the case before the permanent court of arbitration in The Hague, but China boycotted the proceedings.

Putin said Russia joined China in not recognizing the July 12 ruling.

“This is not a political position, but purely legal,” he said. “It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties.”

“As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there,” Putin added. “How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China’s position on this issue.”

Previous joint naval exercises between the two Asian giants were held in the Yellow Sea in 2012, in Russian waters near Vladivostok in 2013, in the East China Sea in 2014, and twice in 2015 – in the Mediterranean Sea and the Sea of Japan.


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> Thanks a lot Russian Tovarish....
> 
> *Russian Navy Helps Chinese Train to Seize Islands in South China Sea*
> *http://cnsnews.com/news/article/pat...s-chinese-train-seize-islands-south-china-sea
> *
> (CNSNews.com) – Chinese and Russian warships, aircraft and troops begin eight days of joint maneuvers in the South China Sea on Monday, including “joint island seizing” in an area where China and the U.S. repeatedly have sparred over freedom of navigation amid multiple territorial disputes.
> 
> It will be the sixth Russia-China naval exercise since 2012, but the first to be held in the South China Sea, among the most strategically important and hotly-contested waters on the planet.
> 
> People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) spokesman Liang Yang said the wargames would include “joint island seizing,” anti-submarine operations, as well as defense and rescue missions.
> 
> Missile and artillery live-fire drills, island landing, island defense and island offense exercises would be carried out, he said.
> 
> Eighteen Russian and Chinese ships and submarines, 21 aircraft, hundreds of marines and amphibious armored equipment are involved in the exercises. Chinese ships are from its South China Sea fleet while participating Russian vessels include two anti-submarine destroyers serving with the Russian Pacific Fleet, the _Admiral Tributs_ and _Admiral Vinogradov_.
> 
> Liang said the exercises would improve coordination between the two navies and advance the Russia-China strategic partnership.
> 
> “Holding the drills in the conditions maximally close to combat, is aimed at increasing the potential in the sphere of our common security,” PLAN deputy commander Vice Admiral Wang Hai said at a ceremony welcoming the visitors to Zhangjiang in southern China’s Guangdong province.
> 
> Moscow’s Sputnik news agency quoted Wang’s Russian counterpart, Vice Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov, as saying the aim of the partnership was to ensure “the security of peaceful activities across the world’s seas and oceans and in the prevention of dangerous challenges.”
> 
> It said the drills would conclude with a simultaneous amphibious and air operation on an island held by a simulated enemy.
> 
> Earlier, a Russian Navy spokesman insisted that the exercises were not directed against any “third party” or linked to the region’s geopolitics.
> 
> The U.S. is not a claimant in any of the South China Sea territorial disputes, but several of its allies and friends in the region are, including Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and the Philippines, a treaty ally.
> 
> China claims sovereignty over virtually the entire South China Sea, including resource-rich areas that fall within the exclusive economic zones (EEZs) of surrounding nations. It has alarmed those countries and the U.S., by building and militarizing artificial islands in support of its claims.
> 
> The U.S. Navy continues to carry out what it calls “freedom of navigation” patrols in those waters, to Beijing’s publicly-expressed annoyance.
> 
> On the sidelines of the recent G20 summit in Hangzhou, Russian President Vladimir Putin raised eyebrows by voicing support for Beijing’s stance on the South China Sea.
> 
> After meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping on September 4, Putin said Russia believes “that any intervention of a non-regional power goes only to the detriment of settling these issues.”
> 
> “The intervention of third-party non-regional powers, in my opinion, is harmful and counterproductive,” he told reporters, clearly referring to the United States, and echoing a position China has repeatedly declared.
> 
> Going further, Putin backed China’s rejection of a ruling over the summer by an international tribunal denying Beijing’s claims to waters within the Philippines’ EEZ.
> 
> The Philippines brought the case before the permanent court of arbitration in The Hague, but China boycotted the proceedings.
> 
> Putin said Russia joined China in not recognizing the July 12 ruling.
> 
> “This is not a political position, but purely legal,” he said. “It lies in the fact that any arbitration proceedings should be initiated by the disputing parties, while the arbitration court should hear the arguments and positions of the disputing parties.”
> 
> “As you know, China did not address the Hague arbitration and no one listened to its position there,” Putin added. “How can you recognize these decisions as fair? We support China’s position on this issue.”
> 
> Previous joint naval exercises between the two Asian giants were held in the Yellow Sea in 2012, in Russian waters near Vladivostok in 2013, in the East China Sea in 2014, and twice in 2015 – in the Mediterranean Sea and the Sea of Japan.


Lol. Vladimir does not give a damn about charlie. Vlad will reveal the location of those kilo subs to the chinese in a snap. Better look to japan, south korea, sweden or germany for future subs, ..boyz


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> a squadron of Su-35 costs $1 billion. That's a lot of money and needs to be considered seriously. Oh man I would wish we don't need to pursue such arms race. Money would be better spent elsewhere, from building roads to hospital to kindergarten.
> 
> Su-30 on patrol in the spratly





Viet said:


> Only seen in Vietnam



That's pretty good. Some still use ladders.



hoangsa74 said:


> Lol. Vladimir does not give a damn about charlie. Vlad will reveal the location of those kilo subs to the chinese in a snap. Better look to japan, south korea, sweden or germany for future subs, ..boyz



And destroy the credibility of Russian arms permanently? Where are the senses you see being made here?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> @Viet People from the Russian forum told me that companies that make equipment for the SU-35 were told that Vietnam will order 12 planes. This is reliable insider information.


Problem is that the Su-35S is an entirely different weapon system, while the Su-30MK2V and Su-30SM still have some similarity. So if we do choose the Su-35S, training would have been started by now in Russian facilities.

However, we only sent pilots and technicians to India to learn about the Su-30MKI. So that's the clue to point to Su-30SM procurement.

HOWEVER (again), since Su-30MK2V (and Su-30M2) can be used for Su-35 pilot training, plus the appearance of top test Sukhoi test pilots (old Sergey, young Sergey, Sasha, etc.), one can theoretically assume that we've done some training for the future Su-35S and 5th gen aircraft.

** Rumor alert:
Some inside sources claim that several Su-30MK2V are more capable than the rest of the fleet, using more advance avionics and weapon control systems from 4++ gen projects (Su-30MKI, Su-35S). This rumor has yet to be debunked or confirmed.

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## William Hung

Silent Knight said:


> ** Rumor alert:
> Some inside sources claim that several Su-30MK2V are more capable than the rest of the fleet, using more advance avionics and weapon control systems from 4++ gen projects (Su-30MKI, Su-35S). This rumor has yet to be debunked or confirmed.



Years ago on an Indian defence forum, an Israeli who was supposedly an employee in an Israeli defense firm claimed his team won a contract to upgrade the avionics of VN’s Su-30.

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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> Years ago on an Indian defence forum, an Israeli who was supposedly an employee in an Israeli defense firm claimed his team won a contract to upgrade the avionics of VN’s Su-30.


I have direct access to these supposedly "upgraded" aircraft. However, I was not allowed to take a look at the cockpit, only a walk around.

Maybe next time I will check it out too see then.


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## Viet

Here is a cheaper way to fly: Flight simulator for Vietnam airlines pilots. I think we would save a lot of money if we put Su-30 fighter pilots into such simulator. Well, I mean Su-30 flight simulator 









TenLua said:


> How do you embed pictures? Where it's part of your post...


You can copy picture and paste it. Or you can copy the url of picture and paste it by using image icon on the top bar.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Here is a cheaper way to fly: Flight simulator for Vietnam airlines pilots. I think we would save a lot of money if we put Su-30 fighter pilots into such simulator. Well, I mean Su-30 flight simulator


We do have Su-27 and Su-30 flight simulators. However, they are fixed on the ground and don't have hydraulics actuators.


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## Viet

I believe India's rapid military buildup along the border to China has nothing to do with Vietnam. Nor do we encourage the Indian government to do it


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## Aqsuperman

TenLua said:


> How do you embed pictures? Where it's part of your post...



Click here and paste the link of the picture you want to post.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> We do have Su-27 and Su-30 flight simulators. However, they are fixed on the ground and don't have hydraulics actuators.


No hydraulics?


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## xiao qi

Aqsuperman said:


> Click here and paste the link of the picture you want to post.


he must have more than 30 posts

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> No hydraulics?


Meaning the cockpit is fixed, cannot tilt or shake like commercial airlines simulator.

You can watch it at 4:30

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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> I have direct access to these supposedly "upgraded" aircraft. However, I was not allowed to take a look at the cockpit, only a walk around.
> 
> Maybe next time I will check it out too see then.








This is the cockpit for Super Sukhoi upgrade program. Also ELL 8251 escort jammer will be integrated inside. New AESA radar and new HMD visor etc etc. 

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/9/36129.pdf

All the package design and integration will be done by the DARE.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Meaning the cockpit is fixed, cannot tilt or shake like commercial airlines simulator.
> 
> You can watch it at 4:30


I understand what you mean. Flight simulator for fighter jets should simulate more realistic scenarios, all missions from patrolling to bomb raid, from dog fighting to how to escape an enemy incoming air to air missile. here is a Fight simulator for Typhoon. it costs 50 million euro. but one can save money if compare it costs 75,000 Euro a flight hour on Typhoon to 5,000 euro on Simulator


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## Farhan Bohra

Farhan Bohra said:


> This is the cockpit for Super Sukhoi upgrade program. Also ELL 8251 escort jammer will be integrated inside. New AESA radar and new HMD visor etc etc.
> 
> http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/9/36129.pdf
> 
> All the package design and integration will be done by the DARE.


For SEAD and DEAD operations SIVA pod will be used.






And for ground operations LITENING-3 LDP will be used, instead of current LITENING-.

http://www.ultra-cis.com/resourses/Litening III - secured.pdf

http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/7/477.pdf


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> I understand what you mean. Flight simulator for fighter jets should simulate more realistic scenarios, all missions from patrolling to bomb raid, from dog fighting to how to escape an enemy incoming air to air missile. here is a Fight simulator for Typhoon. it costs 50 million euro. but one can save money if compare it costs 75,000 Euro a flight hour on Typhoon to 5,000 euro on Simulator


Well, the simulator is like a really expensive gaming rig. It can give you the basic know-how of operate an aircraft as well as basic flight maneuvers.

However, you still need real flights to experience what it's like during aggressive combat maneuvers, or just normal flights in reality. Even the most expensive and modern simulator in the world cannot create the feeling of 7-9G on your body, right?

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## Viet

Interesting: China´s Premier Li Keqiang greets Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Beijing with full honours and gun salute, a ceremony normally reserved for Head of State. This is the first time ever a top member of new administration visits China. nine cooperation documents were signed. a non aggression pact is not included, I guess. anyway I think China guard of honour is not too bad, especially the girls. I wonder why we don´t copy it?

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## ahojunk

_More news from the above meeting._

--------
China, Vietnam vow to properly manage maritime differences
Source: Xinhua | 2016-09-13 00:01:04 | Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, Sept. 12 (Xinhua) -- China and Vietnam pledged on Monday to properly manage maritime differences and further enhance bilateral substantial cooperation.

The pledge came as Chinese Premier Li Keqiang held talks with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc, who is paying an official visit to China starting Saturday.

During the talks held at the Great Hall of the People, Li told Phuc the South China Sea issue is related to territorial sovereignty, maritime interests as well as national sentiment.

"China and Vietnam need to work together to abide by agreements reached by the leaders of the two countries, safeguard stability in the South China Sea, and build consensus to advance bilateral ties and safeguard maritime and regional peace," Li said.

Phuc said Vietnam would like to properly resolve maritime issues with China in the spirit of equality and mutual respect and in a peaceful way.

He suggested the two sides manage their differences, conduct maritime cooperation in areas of low sensitivity and maintain a stable situation in the South China Sea to prevent the maritime issue from casting a shadow over bilateral ties.

This was Phuc's first visit to China since he was elected prime minister in July during the first session of the 14th National Assembly of Vietnam.

It is also the first high-level visit to Beijing by Vietnamese leaders since the 12th National Congress of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) held in January.

Li said China is willing to continue the policy of promoting friendship and partnership with its neighbors on the principles of amity, sincerity, mutual benefit and inclusiveness, adding that China is willing to enhance strategic communication and high-level exchanges with Vietnam.

Stressing that both China and Vietnam are in a critical period of reform and development, Li said the two countries need to continue maritime, land and financial cooperation, synergize bilateral and sub-regional development strategies and strengthen cooperation on infrastructure construction, production capacity, trade and investment.

He also suggested both countries carry out cultural and people-to-people exchanges and enhance cooperation in areas including political parties, defense and law enforcement.

Phuc said friendly cooperation has always been the main trend in bilateral ties over the past 66 years since the establishment of diplomatic ties.

Vietnam will always remember China's huge support to the cause of its national liberation and construction, said Phuc.

He said it is the consistent stance of the CPV and the Vietnamese government as well as his country's foreign policy priority to maintain its traditional friendship with China and consolidate the steady and healthy development of bilateral ties.

Hailing the positive momentum of the relationship, Phuc said Vietnam is willing to enhance cooperation with China on political, economic and cultural fronts and further coordination in international affairs.

Prior the talks, Li held a welcoming ceremony for Phuc.

After the talks, Li and Phuc witnessed the signing of documents on the economy and trade, production capacity, infrastructure, education and other areas.

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin told reporters after the talks that the two leaders had a "good" conversation and the new government of Vietnam shows "positive willingness" to further develop relations with China.

According to Liu, the delegation led by Phuc, consisting of 32 ministerial officials and other delegates, is the largest Vietnamese government delegation to visit China in recent years.

Phuc arrived in Nanning, capital of south China's Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, on Saturday to attend the 13th China-ASEAN Expo and the China-ASEAN Business and Investment Summit, where he met with Vice Premier Zhang Gaoli on the sidelines of the meetings.

He also met with Chinese top legislator Zhang Dejiang and top political advisor Yu Zhengsheng in Beijing on Monday and is expected to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping on Tuesday, said Liu.

Phuc will leave Beijing for Hong Kong on Wednesday.


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## Viet

Vietnam made computer aided artillery control system: GLLAD.M2 for anti aircraft 37mm artillery gun, good especially for night combat. half automatic, 60 rounds a minute.


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## Silent Knight

So the Philippines president decided to not buy additional multirole fighter and focus on the turboprop CAS ones.

So I guess that's one less enemy to worry about, not that they deserve that status anyway.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> So the Philippines president decided to not buy additional multirole fighter and focus on the turboprop CAS ones.
> 
> So I guess that's one less enemy to worry about, not that they deserve that status anyway.


I have the feeling the Philippines is soon heading a dead end, both politically and military. anyway, their country their decision, why should we care. they can abandon the US and tilt toward China. we should not care, either. for the Chinese, it is a perfect time.

Meeting with Xi Jinping, the man who wants to lead China to the glorious future. yes, actually we would wish him all the best as long as he does not expand China´s territory at our cost. as for the current visit to China, a positive news is announced today: the Bank of China expects the bilateral trade between VN and CN will overtake $100 billions mark this year, making VN as China´s biggest trading partner in southeast Asia.

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## Silent Knight

Well, since the Philippines is one of the claimants in SCS, they're technically in dispute with us too.

Also, the Philippines is a "role model" for many ignorant Vietnamese thanks to their big mouth


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## Viet

I don't think the Philippines is a role model for anyone. It is just foolish to alienate a partner if this partner guarantees the security to the country, defending against external threats. But as said why should we care. I expect the Chinese will take over the seas and islands of them, like they have already taken over the economy of the Philippines. Sure, today we have a dispute with the Philippines over a part of the South China Sea, but I expect we will deal with the Chinese in the future.

We move on.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> I don't think the Philippines is a role model for anyone.


Ha, you'd be surprised to know that many people in Vietnam are praising the Philippines for their "big mouth" toward China and "winning" in the PCA ruling, instead of keeping the mouth shut and actually doing stuff in the field like Vietnam. They keep screaming that Vietnam is a coward and must follow the Philippines footsteps.

Those ignorant people even hold parade to glorify the Philippines and denounce our Amred Forces, which is really grinding my gears.


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## Viet

Let post this news

Impressive firepower of twin Ak630 cannon on the new Molynia 382, 383: 10,000 rounds a minute combined.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Let post this news
> 
> Impressive firepower of twin Ak630 cannon on the new Molynia 382, 383: 10,000 rounds a minute combined.​


​
They should fit those twin Ak630 on a tank.


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## Silent Knight

And from the inside of those Molniya boats

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## William Hung

Silent Knight said:


> I have direct access to these supposedly "upgraded" aircraft. However, I was not allowed to take a look at the cockpit, only a walk around.
> 
> Maybe next time I will check it out too see then.



I’ve also read comments from a rep from Rosonboroexport saying that VN ordered the last few Su-30 with upgraded avionics/radars compared to the previous orders...so its still a mystery if these new upgrades are Russian based or Israeli based.


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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> I’ve also read comments from a rep from Rosonboroexport saying that VN ordered the last few Su-30 with upgraded avionics/radars compared to the previous orders...so its still a mystery if these new upgrades are Russian based or Israeli based.


Considering we have 35 Su-30MK2Vs and 11 Su-27s, it's not too strange to try both offers from the Russian and Israeli.

The Russian could bring our Su-30MK2V up to Su-30MKI/SM standard, while the Israeli can integrate and allow compatibility between the Sukhoi fighters and Western weapon systems.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Considering we have 35 Su-30MK2Vs and 11 Su-27s, it's not too strange to try both offers from the Russian and Israeli.
> 
> The Russian could bring our Su-30MK2V up to Su-30MKI/SM standard, while the Israeli can integrate and allow compatibility between the Sukhoi fighters and Western weapon systems.



I used to hear that Israel supplied ECM equipment for the Su-30MK2s.


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## Carlosa

*China and Vietnam pledge to set aside differences over South China Sea*




China and Vietnam have vowed to set aside their differences over the South China Sea and instead strengthen bilateral ties. Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said both the countries must work together to maintain 'peace and stability' to contain regional tensions.

Meeting Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Beijing on Monday (12 September), Li said the dispute over the hotly contested waters involved "national feelings" of Chinese and Vietnamese.

"China and Vietnam should work hard together, scrupulously abide by their high level consensus, maintain maritime stability, manage and control disputes, promote maritime cooperation, continue to accumulate consensus, jointly maintain maritime and regional peace and stability and create conditions for the stable development of bilateral ties," Reuters quoted Li as saying.

Phuc said Vietnam will approach issues with China in a peaceful manner and in a spirit of equality and mutual respect. He suggested that both sides prevent the maritime issue from casting a shadow over bilateral relations.

Visiting China for the first time as prime minister after a leadership reshuffle in Vietnam in July, Phuc said Hanoi will work to enhance political trust and cooperation with Beijing. Li said China will step up high-level exchanges and people-to-people contacts with Vietnam.

China and Vietnam have overlapping claims over some islands in the hotly contested waters. Hanoi had welcomed The Hague ruling over the territorial dispute in the case brought by the Philippines and called for a peaceful resolution. But it also affirmed its sovereign claims there.





Chinese Premier Li Keqiang (R) and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc have pledged to manage maritime differences between the two countries and enhance bilateral tiesREUTERS/Lintao Zhang/Pool
Despite several warnings from the US and countries in the Asia Pacific region, China has reinforced its claims over the disputed waters with constant patrolling by its coast guard ships near the Spratly Island and the Scarborough Shoals.

China is also conducting an eight-day-long massive joint military drill with Russia in the South China Sea saying it will focus on "seizing and controlling" of islands and shoals.

According to Reuters, Hanoi is in the middle of building its military base quietly, which analysts claim is designed as a preventive measure to secure its 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> I used to hear that Israel supplied ECM equipment for the Su-30MK2s.


Well I didn't know that. Officially we use only ECM pods from Russia.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> They should fit those twin Ak630 on a tank.


how do you want to put on tank? impossible. unless we develop a armor vehicle that can accommodate the Gatling gun. but actually the army has successfully developed a mobile version. a truck will tow it, like it does with other artillery pieces. once deployed, the guns will spit an incredible amount of steel projectiles on targets. as far as we can see in the pictures, the gun is remotely controlled. unmanned.

Vietnam made mobile 30mm Gatling gun












152mm howitzer

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## Silent Knight

The AK-630M is limited to line-of-sight targets. I'd would prefer the BM-21M1 or artillery for that role.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> The AK-630M is limited to line-of-sight targets. I'd would prefer the BM-21M1 or artillery for that role.


they have different roles, haven´t they?

AK630 is for close contact, while other for farther distance.


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Considering we have 35 Su-30MK2Vs and 11 Su-27s, it's not too strange to try both offers from the Russian and Israeli.
> 
> The Russian could bring our Su-30MK2V up to Su-30MKI/SM standard, while the Israeli can integrate and allow compatibility between the Sukhoi fighters and Western weapon systems.



You think Russia allow Israeli to work on SUs directly ? No they won't.


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## Viet

Seems some progress is made in upgrading T54/T55 tanks to T55M3 series.

the 100mm main cannon is replaced by an israeli made M68/L7 105mm, that is capable to fire powerful armor piercing shell APFSDS. two Vietnam made machine guns 12.7mm and 7,62mm are installed. Blazer ERA provides more survivability, capable to withstand RPG-7. the upgrade is being supported by Israeli and Swiss defence companies. I cut out pictures from a video, hence the quality is bad.


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## Silent Knight

Farhan Bohra said:


> You think Russia allow Israeli to work on SUs directly ? No they won't.


Given that the Su-30MKM uses several western systems, I expect something similar.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> how do you want to put on tank? impossible. unless we develop a armor vehicle that can accommodate the Gatling gun. but actually the army has successfully developed a mobile version. a truck will tow it, like it does with other artillery pieces. once deployed, the guns will spit an incredible amount of steel projectiles on targets. as far as we can see in the pictures, the gun is remotely controlled. unmanned.
> 
> Vietnam made mobile 30mm Gatling gun



I don't know if you study the war in Syria, but it's pretty clear to me a large caliber (30mm) weapon with a high rate of fire can change the war in a major way.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Seems some progress is made in upgrading T54/T55 tanks to T55M3 series.
> 
> the 100mm main cannon is replaced by an israeli made M68/L7 105mm, that is capable to fire powerful armor piercing shell APFSDS. two Vietnam made machine guns 12.7mm and 7,62mm are installed. Blazer ERA provides more survivability, capable to withstand RPG-7. the upgrade is being supported by Israeli and Swiss defence companies. I cut out pictures from a video, hence the quality is bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334199
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334200
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334201
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334203
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334204
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 334205



Didn't the T-55M3 project get cancelled? @Silent Knight



Viet said:


> how do you want to put on tank? impossible. unless we develop a armor vehicle that can accommodate the Gatling gun.



The chinese have an air defense APC with a 30mm gatling gun like that.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The chinese have an air defense APC with a 30mm gatling gun like that.


theoretically we can do the same. mounting the Gatling on a truck like this, adding armor plates and developing a fire control radar. I am willing to bet we can beat the Chinese in price competition

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## Carlosa



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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Didn't the T-55M3 project get cancelled? @Silent Knight


Probably, due to the high cost per unit (800k USD for each tank).

The AMV configuration was chosen instead.


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## Viet

*Underdog Vietnam Is Splurging on Weapons to Keep China at Bay*
A modern day David and Goliath is playing out in the South China Sea.







By Kyle Mizokami
Aug 19, 2016


Rivals are preparing for a showdown in the South China Sea. On one side is the world's second-largest economy and most populous nation. On the other is a scrappy country that has taken on world powers—and won. And the way it is now preparing for potential conflict is a textbook study in how a smaller military should defend itself from a much larger one.

*David and Goliath*

Vietnam and China haven't exactly enjoyed a happy relationship over their thousands of years of being neighbors, with China often culturally, politically, and economically dominating smaller Vietnam. The two countries have come to blows numerous times, but until recently the rivalry had subsided. Vietnam enjoyed strong economic growth, in part because of its proximity to China's powerhouse economy. China remained relatively benign even as its military spending grew.

In 2010 China began aggressively pursuing what _it_ considers traditionally Chinese territories in the East and South China Seas. This raised tensions between China and several nations in the region. In particular, China and Vietnam are at odds over several groups of islets in the South China Sea, including the Paracels and Spratly Island chains. In 1988, a skirmish between naval forces of the two sides on Johnson South Reef in the Spratlys ended with the Vietnamese side wiped out. Sixty-four Vietnamese troops were killed and two Vietnamese ships were sunk.

Not surprisingly, then, Vietnam hasn't fail to notice the current escalation in Chinese military might. It placed orders for 36 Su-30MK2 fighter jets—the equal of anything in the Chinese Air Force. In 2009 it spent $2 billion for six Improved Kilo-class diesel electric submarines, an incredible sum considering its defense budget for that year was only $3 billion. The submarines will soon be equipped with BrahMos missiles, a joint Indian-Russian supersonic anti-ship missile that is difficult to shoot down.

*Ship for Ship?*

Although the two countries share a land border, Vietnam is not particularly concerned about fighting a land war. When China invaded the battle-hardened Southeast Asian country in 1979, it lost approximately 1,000 troops per day during the month-long war—and vowed not to repeat the mistake. Instead, in any future conflict China would likely seal the land border and use air and naval power to choke its neighbor off from the outside world. Vietnam, a global center of manufacturing, would suffer economically if goods could come and go.

Vietnam, which has a military budget about 2 percent of China's, obviously can't match its neighbor ship for ship and missile for missile. It can, however, arm itself with very specific weapons systems aimed at key Chinese capabilities.

For example, the Vietnamese People's Air Force's SU-30MK2 jets will pose a serious threat to China's air superiority over the country and the South China Sea. During the Vietnam War, the VPAF downed several American combat jets and, although it never adequately protected the country, it forced the U.S. military to expend resources against it, providing fighter escorts for bombers and attack jets.

Likewise, Vietnam's six-submarine fleet isn't particularly large or powerful. During wartime it would be heavily outnumbered by China's South Seas Fleet, just one of three of China's fleet commands. But the psychology of submarine warfare, in which even just one well-trained submarine can threaten a large patch of ocean, will make the Chinese Navy tread carefully.

*Tensions Rise*

In recent months, China has again pushed its weight around in the region, most notably by installing the Haiyan Shiyou 981 oil rig in waters claimed by both countries. China has also attempted to bully the Philippines over ownership of the Second Thomas Shoal—also in the Spratly Islands chain—and has ignored an international courts ruling in favor of its smaller neighbor. China has even been pushing back against Japan over what it calls the Diaoyu Islands—know as the Senkaku Islands in Japan.

Vietnam has continued fortifying its defenses. Earlier this month, it showed off its two Russian-made K-300P "Bastion" coastal defense systems. The truck-mounted anti-ship missiles have a maximum range of 186 miles, making approaching anywhere near Vietnam's long coastline a risky proposition for an enemy ship. This month's deployment took things a step further, placing them on landing craft that could ferry them to some of the larger islands at the heart of the country's dispute with China. Here's a Vietnamese news report on the missiles:

Vietnam's latest acquisition revealed just last week comes in the form of 20 Israeli-made EXTRA missiles (see image at top.) Standing for Extended Range Artillery Rocket, EXTRA carries a 275-lb. warhead, uses GPS guidance to achieve accuracy within 30 feet, and has a range of 81 miles. The 306-millimeter EXTRA missiles are stationed on five bases in the Spratlys, putting Chinese military bases at Subi, Fiery Cross, and Mischief Reefs within striking distance.

With just a handful of fighter jets, submarines, anti-ship missiles and precision-guided rockets, Vietnam has fielded a formidable defensive force. While it's unlikely to stop a determined Chinese attack, Vietnam's new weaponry could deter outright military aggression from its larger neighbor—or inflict casualties if that neighbor decided to roll the dice.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Probably, due to the high cost per unit (800k USD for each tank).
> 
> The AMV configuration was chosen instead.



That's what I thought.


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## Viet

Very funny. One month later, China is called as underdog. Seems the EXTRA deployment works perfect 

*China, The Underdog Now, Will Work With Vietnam On Sea Dispute*
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphjennings/2016/09/13/china-the-underdog-as-it-pledges-cooperation-with-vietnam-on-maritime-dispute/#6715631948b8


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Probably, due to the high cost per unit (800k USD for each tank).
> 
> The AMV configuration was chosen instead.



Jeebus. I wouldn't put 20 dollars into those things.


Viet said:


> Very funny. One month later, China is called as underdog. Seems the EXTRA deployment works perfect
> 
> *China, The Underdog Now, Will Work With Vietnam On Sea Dispute*
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphjennings/2016/09/13/china-the-underdog-as-it-pledges-cooperation-with-vietnam-on-maritime-dispute/#6715631948b8



Xi Jinping: *points to flag* OUR FLAGS ARE RED AND THEY HAVE STARS FOR FCK SAKE!!!!"

Vietnam: So....you leave us alone....?


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## Farhan Bohra

Silent Knight said:


> Given that the Su-30MKM uses several western systems, I expect something similar.


Those were good days when France participated in MKM program.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's what I thought.


bro since silent knight joined this thread, the number of readers has increased a lot. I am pretty sure, one of the most active silent readers is the world famous China people's liberation army. You should interpret my posts in some cases in that perspective

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> bro since silent knight joined this thread, the number of readers has increased a lot. I am pretty sure, one of the most active silent readers is the world famous China people's liberation army. You should interpret my posts in some cases in that perspective


Don't mind me. I'm just a passer-by 



TenLua said:


> Jeebus. I wouldn't put 20 dollars into those things.


The T-54M3 project is indeed better than basic T-54B and T-55. However, the capabilities couldn't justify the high cost. so only one prototype was made, while the rest would be upgraded to AMV standard (new FCS, ERA, wind sensor, laser rangefinder, 2nd gen passive night vision etc.).



Farhan Bohra said:


> Those were good days when France participated in MKM program.


Indeed. I'm not quite sure about these upgrades so I cannot give you guys solid confirmation or denial.


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Don't mind me. I'm just a passer-by
> 
> 
> The T-54M3 project is indeed better than basic T-54B and T-55. However, the capabilities couldn't justify the high cost. so only one prototype was made, while the rest would be upgraded to AMV standard (new FCS, ERA, wind sensor, laser rangefinder, 2nd gen passive night vision etc.).
> 
> 
> Indeed. I'm not quite sure about these upgrades so I cannot give you guys solid confirmation or denial.



I guess they're still good for holding a position. 

Higher rate of fire would be better suited for that though.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> I guess they're still good for holding a position.
> 
> Higher rate of fire would be better suited for that though.


I believe the upgrade package intends to give it a better "first shot first kill" capability though. Given a close enough distance and good camouflage, a T-54/55 can open fire and damage modern MBT with its 100mm rounds.

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## Aqsuperman

Militia exercise with AR-15. The light recoil and flat trajectory make them easy to attain a high degree of accuracy even on not well trained units compared to AK. Maintaining them is more time - consuming and require lots of effort though.

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## Viet

US Brigadier General Viet Luong. 1st Cavalry Division Headquarters.






















U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter visits Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan, greeted by Luong, commander of Command South Group.

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## Viet

*South China Sea*

*Can China’s charm offensive mend its fractured ties with communist neighbour Vietnam?*

Vietnamese Prime Minister given red carpet treatment in Beijing amid frosty relations between two nations over sovereignty disputes in South China Sea

JIANGTAO.SHI@SCMP.COM
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 15 September, 2016






China’s Premier Li Keqiang (left) at a welcoming ceremony for Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc (right) in Beijing. Photo: Xinhua


China has launched a charm offensive over the past week to woo Vietnam’s visiting Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc as part of a diplomatic bid to ease simmering tensions with its Asian neighbours over sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea.

But analysts cautioned that relations between Beijing and Hanoi remain difficult despite the positive appearance projected over the past week.

Diplomatic observers said Phuc’s trip to China, which ended on Thursday, shows Beijing values the geopolitical importance of Hanoi, a key rival claimant to waters in the South China Sea.

Beijing is also trying to use chequebook diplomacy and economic incentives to mend frayed ties between the two nations, analysts said.

Setting aside their bitter differences on maritime disputes, Beijing rolled out the red carpet for Phuc, the first Vietnamese leader to visit China since a major reshuffle in Hanoi earlier this year.

In an unusual gesture to showcase the special relationship between the Communist neighbours, Phuc was received by five out of seven Politburo Standing Committee members during his six-day trip, including President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang.





President Xi Jinping (right) meets Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Beijing. Photo: Xinhua


Phuc, who took a tougher stance towards China in the wake of the South China Sea ruling in July by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, also markedly toned down his rhetoric and pledged that ties with Beijing would remain Hanoi’s top diplomatic priority.

In return, Chinese leaders promised to further deepen trade ties and increase investment in Vietnam, which is poised to become China’s top trading partner in Southeast Asia this year.

Mutual interests outweigh our differences, Chinese President Xi Jinping tells visiting Vietnamese PM

Xu Liping, a reseacher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said Phuc’s trip marked a new chapter for the Sino-Vietnamese relations as “both sides reached an understanding that they could not afford to enter into conflicts over the maritime row”.

“Considering their ever close trade ties, it’s obvious that their common interests far outweigh their differences. It’s about time both nations look beyond the South China Sea dispute and rebuild their trust,” he said.

Gu Xiaosong, a Vietnam expert at the Guangxi region’s academy of social sciences, said that even though the two nations’ political relations were still marred by the maritime dispute and ideological differences, their leaders were keen to ease tensions and forge close business and economic ties.

“Clearly peace and stability in the South China Sea is in the interests of both nations and China-Vietnam ties will stabilise for a while,” he said.

The easing of tensions between China and Vietnam will also help cool other strained relations in the region over maritime dispute, Gu added.

The question facing Vietnam’s PM on his first China visit: how close to get to Beijing

Analysts noted that President Xi has pledged to promote maritime cooperation between the two nations in disputed waters claimed by both nations.

China and Vietnam launched a joint inspection in December of the terrain and geological conditions near the mouth of the Beibu Gulf, also known as Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam.





Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc (fourth, left) meets President Xi Jinping (third, right) at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing with other delegation members. Photo: EPA


Other analysts, however, said relations between the two sides have been severely damaged by their sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea and efforts to mend ties would prove difficult.

Alexander Vuving, a professor at the Asia-Pacific Centre for Security Studies in Honolulu, said their relations passed a point of no return in 2014 with the crisis triggered by China’s deployment of an oil rig in disputed waters, which plunged ties to a new low.

“The positive appearance in relations between China and Vietnam serves the interests of both nations, but it belies the reality of their relationship,” he said.

“Since then, despite efforts by both sides to arrange more talks between their leaders, mutual trust remains low. What China has done since in the South China Sea has only deepened Vietnamese mistrust,” he said.

China ‘may need a rethink’ as Vietnam moves closer to US

He also noted that China was unlikely to drop its assertive stance in the South China Sea, which means tensions may escalate again between China and Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations.

Professor Carl Thayer, an expert in Southeast Asia at the University of New South Wales in Australia, said Vietnam’s prime minster was determined to obtain a Chinese commitment to respect the status quo and not engage in further militarisation in the South China Sea.

“All Phuc’s visit can hope to accomplish is to keep working level meetings related to maritime disputes between the two sides on track and to increase confidence building measures.

“Vietnam is keen to ensure the regional environment remains conducive to its economic development. Vietnam views China as one of the major powers that form an important constellation for framing Vietnam’s foreign policy,” he said.

While easing tensions with Beijing, Hanoi has in recent months also sought to improve ties with the United States and upgraded its relationship with other major powers such as Japan, India and France.

“After the visit of Vietnam’s Communist Party leader Nguyen Phu Trong to the United States in 2015, and the visit of US President Obama to Vietnam this year, many in the Vietnamese leadership now trust the United States more than they trust China. This is the reverse of what was the case just a few years ago,” said Vuving.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> The T-54M3 project is indeed better than basic T-54B and T-55. However, the capabilities couldn't justify the high cost. so only one prototype was made, while the rest would be upgraded to AMV standard (new FCS, ERA, wind sensor, laser rangefinder, 2nd gen passive night vision etc.)..



I would say the current upgrade is very cost effective considering the limitations of the tank. The T-54M3 was too expensive for marginal capability. Vietnam is using those tanks mainly for infantry support and the main gun, whether 100 or 105mm is unlikely to penetrate the armor of the best MBTs, so the current AMV upgrade gives a lot of bang for the money. Doing more would be spending a lot more for little extra capability.

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## Farhan Bohra

We were talking about P-17 A . Finally Indian Navy revealed official design.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> We were talking about P-17 A . Finally Indian Navy revealed official design.


what are the specs?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *South China Sea*
> 
> *Can China’s charm offensive mend its fractured ties with communist neighbour Vietnam?*
> 
> Vietnamese Prime Minister given red carpet treatment in Beijing amid frosty relations between two nations over sovereignty disputes in South China Sea
> 
> JIANGTAO.SHI@SCMP.COM
> PUBLISHED : Thursday, 15 September, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s Premier Li Keqiang (left) at a welcoming ceremony for Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc (right) in Beijing. Photo: Xinhua
> 
> 
> China has launched a charm offensive over the past week to woo Vietnam’s visiting Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc as part of a diplomatic bid to ease simmering tensions with its Asian neighbours over sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea.
> 
> But analysts cautioned that relations between Beijing and Hanoi remain difficult despite the positive appearance projected over the past week.
> 
> Diplomatic observers said Phuc’s trip to China, which ended on Thursday, shows Beijing values the geopolitical importance of Hanoi, a key rival claimant to waters in the South China Sea.
> 
> Beijing is also trying to use chequebook diplomacy and economic incentives to mend frayed ties between the two nations, analysts said.
> 
> Setting aside their bitter differences on maritime disputes, Beijing rolled out the red carpet for Phuc, the first Vietnamese leader to visit China since a major reshuffle in Hanoi earlier this year.
> 
> In an unusual gesture to showcase the special relationship between the Communist neighbours, Phuc was received by five out of seven Politburo Standing Committee members during his six-day trip, including President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Xi Jinping (right) meets Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Beijing. Photo: Xinhua
> 
> 
> Phuc, who took a tougher stance towards China in the wake of the South China Sea ruling in July by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, also markedly toned down his rhetoric and pledged that ties with Beijing would remain Hanoi’s top diplomatic priority.
> 
> In return, Chinese leaders promised to further deepen trade ties and increase investment in Vietnam, which is poised to become China’s top trading partner in Southeast Asia this year.
> 
> Mutual interests outweigh our differences, Chinese President Xi Jinping tells visiting Vietnamese PM
> 
> Xu Liping, a reseacher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said Phuc’s trip marked a new chapter for the Sino-Vietnamese relations as “both sides reached an understanding that they could not afford to enter into conflicts over the maritime row”.
> 
> “Considering their ever close trade ties, it’s obvious that their common interests far outweigh their differences. It’s about time both nations look beyond the South China Sea dispute and rebuild their trust,” he said.
> 
> Gu Xiaosong, a Vietnam expert at the Guangxi region’s academy of social sciences, said that even though the two nations’ political relations were still marred by the maritime dispute and ideological differences, their leaders were keen to ease tensions and forge close business and economic ties.
> 
> “Clearly peace and stability in the South China Sea is in the interests of both nations and China-Vietnam ties will stabilise for a while,” he said.
> 
> The easing of tensions between China and Vietnam will also help cool other strained relations in the region over maritime dispute, Gu added.
> 
> The question facing Vietnam’s PM on his first China visit: how close to get to Beijing
> 
> Analysts noted that President Xi has pledged to promote maritime cooperation between the two nations in disputed waters claimed by both nations.
> 
> China and Vietnam launched a joint inspection in December of the terrain and geological conditions near the mouth of the Beibu Gulf, also known as Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc (fourth, left) meets President Xi Jinping (third, right) at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing with other delegation members. Photo: EPA
> 
> 
> Other analysts, however, said relations between the two sides have been severely damaged by their sovereignty disputes in the South China Sea and efforts to mend ties would prove difficult.
> 
> Alexander Vuving, a professor at the Asia-Pacific Centre for Security Studies in Honolulu, said their relations passed a point of no return in 2014 with the crisis triggered by China’s deployment of an oil rig in disputed waters, which plunged ties to a new low.
> 
> “The positive appearance in relations between China and Vietnam serves the interests of both nations, but it belies the reality of their relationship,” he said.
> 
> “Since then, despite efforts by both sides to arrange more talks between their leaders, mutual trust remains low. What China has done since in the South China Sea has only deepened Vietnamese mistrust,” he said.
> 
> China ‘may need a rethink’ as Vietnam moves closer to US
> 
> He also noted that China was unlikely to drop its assertive stance in the South China Sea, which means tensions may escalate again between China and Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations.
> 
> Professor Carl Thayer, an expert in Southeast Asia at the University of New South Wales in Australia, said Vietnam’s prime minster was determined to obtain a Chinese commitment to respect the status quo and not engage in further militarisation in the South China Sea.
> 
> “All Phuc’s visit can hope to accomplish is to keep working level meetings related to maritime disputes between the two sides on track and to increase confidence building measures.
> 
> “Vietnam is keen to ensure the regional environment remains conducive to its economic development. Vietnam views China as one of the major powers that form an important constellation for framing Vietnam’s foreign policy,” he said.
> 
> While easing tensions with Beijing, Hanoi has in recent months also sought to improve ties with the United States and upgraded its relationship with other major powers such as Japan, India and France.
> 
> “After the visit of Vietnam’s Communist Party leader Nguyen Phu Trong to the United States in 2015, and the visit of US President Obama to Vietnam this year, many in the Vietnamese leadership now trust the United States more than they trust China. This is the reverse of what was the case just a few years ago,” said Vuving.



I'd say that the answer to the title of the article is "For sure not".

Chinese do cheap talk but their actions talk a lot louder and give the opposite message.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> I would say the current upgrade is very cost effective considering the limitations of the tank. The T-54M3 was too expensive for marginal capability. Vietnam is using those tanks mainly for infantry support and the main gun, whether 100 or 105mm is unlikely to penetrate the armor of the best MBTs, so the current AMV upgrade gives a lot of bang for the money. Doing more would be spending a lot more for little extra capability.


Penetration of the frontal armor might not be possible. But the side and rear armor is still vulnerable to more modern 100mm ammunition, not to mention several sensors on the turret and tracks themselves.

So a castatrophic kill might not be practical, but mobility kill or firepower kill is possible.

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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> I believe the upgrade package intends to give it a better "first shot first kill" capability though. Given a close enough distance and good camouflage, a T-54/55 can open fire and damage modern MBT with its 100mm rounds.





Silent Knight said:


> Penetration of the frontal armor might not be possible. But the side and rear armor is still vulnerable to more modern 100mm ammunition, not to mention several sensors on the turret and tracks themselves.
> 
> So a castatrophic kill might not be practical, but mobility kill or firepower kill is possible.



Yes, but for the money you can armor Vietnam's best military asset, its soldiers. Reducing casualty rates by a small 10% is still worth it. For every 800k that go into upgrading a tank, you can armor 400 soldiers even if one unit of armor costs 2k each. That has a lot more value than upgrading an antique.

Arm those soldiers with RPG-29 and they'll do a better job at destroying a tank.

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## Carlosa

*Why Vietnam has India in its sights*
*http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2016/09/15/Why-Vietnam-has-India-in-its-sights.aspx
*
Narendra Modi is easily one of the India's most travelled prime ministers. His trip to the US in June, where he addressed Congress in English, was beneficial and ended with the declaration that India was now a 'major defense partner' of the US however more recently Modi stopped off in Vietnam on the way to the G20. What came of that visit might prove to be more substantive if less immediately noteworthy: after 10 years of strategic partnership India has become Vietnam's third comprehensive strategic partner.

So, why has Vietnam chosen to elevate India to its highest echelon of cooperation, up with China and Russia, and not, say, the US? Despite the publicity generated in May when President Obama visited Vietnam and lifted the arms embargo, the US remains on a lower rung of co-operation, a comprehensive partner and only that since 2013 when President Obama met his then-counterpart Truong Tan Sang. According to current president Tran Dai Quang (note: the President is actually the least powerful of Vietnam's governing troika) the last step on the full normalisation of ties came with the lifting of the arms embargo, a Cold War relic that dates back to 1964. Analysts seem to agree this improvement in Vietnam-US relations was hastened by China's aggression in the South China Sea and its island building projects. China also, of course, moved its HY981 oil rig into Vietnam's EEZ in 2014, which essentially froze relations until President Xi's visit in November 2015.

Right now Vietnam's other two comprehensive strategic partners, Russia and China, are engaged in joint patrols in the South China Sea, in a non-alliance worrying much of Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe and of course, the United States. These patrols will likely annoy Hanoi (which has acquired Russian submarines partly in response to Chinese aggression). It seems shared China worries may have also helped push India and Vietnam closer together.

The new high-level partnership works well for both nations. A tenet of Vietnamese foreign policy is multilateralism and that has become particularly clear of late. diverse partnerships. Even as China flexes its terrritorial muscles, Vietnam's historic pull toward that remains strong. Recently both Vietnam's defense minister and PM have headed to China, and the two nations have talked widely on traditional friendship and ties, and a solution to maritime issues. Yet the current climate has also been pushing Vietnam to increase its ties across the board (it also forged a strategic partnership with the Philippines in 2015, the third such partnership after the US and Japan), reducing is reliance on just a few nations.

India is a good and rather obvious choice for stronger ties. There is a long history of friendship between the two (as there is between Russia and Vietnam), and the nations have had diplomatic relations for 45 years. India opposed the invasion of Vietnam and its founding of the Non-Aligned Movement earned it points in Vietnam, which has been a member since 1976. There has been good defense cooperation for some time. Vietnam's trade with India is higher than with Russia (US$5.6 billion versus US$4 billion), and the two also signed an agreement on cooperative oil exploration in the South China Sea five years ago, a move that upset China. On India's part, its old friend Vietnam is an important spot in India's own 'pivot', its Act East Policy, a point underlined in the joint statementissued during the recent visit to Hanoi

New Delhi also 'wants to build relations with states like Vietnam that can act as pressure points against China. With this in mind, it has been helping Hanoi beef up its naval and air capabilities', wrote the London-based, Indian academic Harsh Pant in The Diplomat in July, just before the Hague ruling. In a carefully worded statement after the Hague ruling, India said it 'supports freedom of navigation and overflight, and unimpeded commerce, based on the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the UNCLOS'.

Unlike Vietnam's Cold War links to Russia and the former Soviet Republics, or the then-Czechoslovakia, with India there was no history of labour export programmes to prop up educational and people-to-people connections. Older generations of Vietnamese speak Russian and those born after often have some Czech; that tie has led to Czech beer halls across Vietnam and many Vietnamese restaurants in Prague. There isn't anything comparable in Hindi and though the old Champa empire in central Vietnam has roots in India it's a real stretch to put that under the banner of 'culture' today (in fact today's Vietnamese largely descend from the Dai Viet who pushed out the Champa). However, a cultural history of comradeship matters less in the face of a US$500 million line of defence credit that was part of the recent agreement (a five-fold increase). There hasn't been final agreement on sales of the joint venture India-Russia BrahMos missile to Vietnam, however, despite talks since 2011, though it appears the sale is not far off. India no longer seems to care if this will antagonise China.

In total the two nations signed 12 agreements with the most important concerning the line of defense credit. Much of the rest is non-military in nature, such as IT, cyber security, cooperating on UN Peacekeeping measures and, article one, the ' Framework Agreement on Cooperation in the Exploration and Uses of Outer Space for Peaceful Purposes'. Article 12 is about the sale of patrol boats.

Some have suggested that Vietnam is now to India what Pakistan is to China: a good way to cosy up to a competitor's competitor or enemy. Looking at one relationship through the lens of another though can come at the cost of a deeper understanding; at this point the improved partnership with India will provide opportunities for cooperation and a way for Vietnam to further diversify ties. Not everything need feed paranoia.

_Photo courtesy of Flickr user Chen Wu_

-------------------------------------------

*Not So Lonely at the Top: Vietnam’s Next Step in Power Balancing*
*http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/not-so-lonely-at-the-top-vietnams-next-step-in-power-balancing/*
On his way to the G20 Summit in Hangzhou, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Vietnam, where he met all the key players of local politics – the so-called four pillars. Modi went through the ceremonial motions, visited Ho Chi Minh’s mausoleum, fed the late leader’s carps, and spared no compliment to bilateral ties, referring to a mutual history of as long as 2,000 years.

It was no sideline event for the two countries’ relations and even less so for Vietnamese foreign policy. Not only did the parties sign a dozen of documents, but they also announced that their relations now carry the title of a “comprehensive strategic partnership” – a level previously achieved in Vietnam only by China and Russia.

For India, the visit was an important element in the Act East policy promoted by Modi. Coming right after a high-level visit to Myanmar, Modi’s Vietnam trip is a much-anticipated step in Delhi’s involvement in Southeast Asia – a maritime buffer between India and China, as well as a promising area of economic engagement in its own right. Modi opened a credit line of $500 million for the needs of bilateral defense cooperation, which has become an important element in Vietnamese military build-up. In 2014, India set out to provide four patrol boats to Vietnam and appears to be keen on selling the hypersonic BrahMos anti-ship missiles to the Vietnamese Navy. This is apart from the training program that India offers for Vietnamese crews that are to serve on the six Russia-built _Kilo-class_ submarines.

Though the practicalities of Vietnam-India relations show immense potential for bilateral cooperation, the upgrade of the partnership to a comprehensive strategic one is a crucial step for Vietnam’s overall foreign policy. With a dramatic history of participating in bloc confrontation during the Cold War, Vietnam is now pursuing a policy of non-alignment and diversification as manifested by the “three nos” principle and the _da dang hoa da phuong hoa _concept. According to Vietnamese political thinking, a wide network of partnerships is the only way to hedge against overdependence on any one state.

This policy is still in the making. Vietnam is only departing from excessive dependence on China and still suffers from an immense trade deficit. But Hanoi has managed to shift external reliance in other spheres to a number of partners: the United States is the country’s largest export market, Russia is the key arms seller, Japan is there for ODA, and South Korea is there for investment. Now India has become the latest addition to the in-group of strategic comprehensive partners and is likely to play an important role in Vietnam’s military modernization, cooperate in oil extraction projects, and perhaps serve as another counterbalance to China’s overpowering influence.

The big question is whether this strategy will work. China’s concern with Vietnam is particularly this kind of ‘stray off’ and the Vietnamese leadership will have to find a way – using American foreign policy rhetoric – to turn a “pivot” into a “rebalance.” As soon as Beijing feels that Vietnam’s ties with other major partners may bring an irreversible shift to the strategic environment, Hanoi’s policy will become self-defeating. That is why reassuring gestures, like the recent visit by Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich to China, are of crucial importance.

What kind of news is that for Russia? Moscow took real pride in how history has led Russia and Vietnam to a special kind of relationship. Now that Russia is not alone at the top of Vietnam’s friend list, it is becoming clear that there is a race for influence on Vietnam, a pivotal state in the East Asia power equation. A promising economy, stable political system, well-trained military, and strategic location are drawing attention to Vietnam on behalf of great and middle powers from within and without the region. Bilateral relations have been on the rise, but the competition never sleeps. It’s not about how fast you run, but about who’s running faster.

_Anton Tsvetov is an Expert at the Center for Strategic Research, a Moscow-based think tank. He tweets on Asian affairs and Russian foreign policy at @antsvetov. The views expressed here are the author’s own and do not reflect those of CSR._


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Yes, but for the money you can armor Vietnam's best military asset, its soldiers. Reducing casualty rates by a small 10% is still worth it. For every 800k that go into upgrading a tank, you can armor 400 soldiers even if one unit of armor costs 2k each. That has a lot more value than upgrading an antique.
> 
> Arm those soldiers with RPG-29 and they'll do a better job at destroying a tank.


Step by step, the budget is not huge and equipping half a million soldiers with body armor is not an easy task. But tanks still have their role in a conflict, that is covering the infantry troops themselves. Without the capable tanks, the troops will be annihilated, with or without armor. RPG-29 is not an invincible weapon, it has drawbacks and not every situation is suitable.

That doesn't mean we don't have those sweet armor vest. Border Guard troops and Commando operatives are now equipped with indigenous Type-IIIA armor, the same with Public Security forces. These vests can stop 9x18mm rounds from K-59 (Makarov) pistol, inserting the trauma plate allows it to stop 7x62x39mm round from AKM rifle.

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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Step by step, the budget is not huge and equipping half a million soldiers with body armor is not an easy task. But tanks still have their role in a conflict, that is covering the infantry troops themselves. Without the capable tanks, the troops will be annihilated, with or without armor. RPG-29 is not an invincible weapon, it has drawbacks and not every situation is suitable.
> 
> That doesn't mean we don't have those sweet armor vest. Border Guard troops and Commando operatives are now equipped with indigenous Type-IIIA armor, the same with Public Security forces. These vests can stop 9x18mm rounds from K-59 (Makarov) pistol, inserting the trauma plate allows it to stop 7x62x39mm round from AKM rifle.



Ahhh. Very nice.

Do you know how much it costs per vest?


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Ahhh. Very nice.
> 
> Do you know how much it costs per vest?


I'll have to check the cost again. But rest assured that when the time comes, our troops will be equipped with suitable stuff.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> what are the specs?


Yup

MF-STAR+RAN-40L+ 48 Barak-8 ER + 8 BrahMos Mk2 + 8 Nirbhay 

150 crew size.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Yup
> 
> MF-STAR+RAN-40L+ 48 Barak-8 ER + 8 BrahMos Mk2 + 8 Nirbhay
> 
> 150 crew size.


Why the Israeli radar n not your super indian radar? N i thought nirbhay was a failed project.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Why the Israeli radar n not your super indian radar?


That was naval radar?

And please stop replying me, if this forum average IQ is at surface of the earth, then your intelligence doesnt even belong to earth's core.



> N i thought nirbhay was a failed project.



You think too much. Please thats not good for you.

Why this look like,, you indoctrinated by the CCP, China? @Carlosa This is same for you, or just me thinking like that? :/


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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> That was naval radar?
> 
> And please stop replying me, if this forum average IQ is at surface of the earth, then your intelligence doesnt even belong to earth's core.
> 
> 
> 
> You think too much. Please thats not good for you.


It doesn't matter what my intelligence is. What matters is indian weapons r not up to standard for domestic use n export yet. Nirbhay can't fly low. Cruise missile is useless if it can't fly low to avoid early detection. High flying low speed missile doesn't work against an adversary like china my indian friend.



Farhan Bohra said:


> That was naval radar?
> 
> And please stop replying me, if this forum average IQ is at surface of the earth, then your intelligence doesnt even belong to earth's core.
> 
> 
> 
> You think too much. Please thats not good for you.
> 
> Why this look like,, you indoctrinated by the CCP, China? @Carlosa This is same for you, or just me thinking like that? :/


Y do you need help from your boyfriend carlos the fake spaniard? Maybe he can back u up n give u moral support with a few thanks?


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## Water Car Engineer

hoangsa74 said:


> Why the Israeli radar n not your super indian radar? N i thought nirbhay was a failed project.



Yes, that's being used now. You think India wont induct sea based AESA radars systems down the line?

Land based ones are being readied, so are airborne ones. It's only a matter of time before ship-based ones become operational.

Same thing happened with P28's main radar.











Based off land based model

Now newer models are coming online:




















Just like the pervious example, it's only a matter of time before naval system come to development.




Nirbhay is hardly a failed project, Nirbhay project /program is in line with programs like space launchers, Angi ballistic missiles, in the sense that it has to work, because there is no alternative to import. No one will export long range cruise missiles.




> Cruise missile is useless if it can't fly low to avoid early detection. High flying low speed missile doesn't work against an adversary like china my indian friend.




It will be one of it's feature.

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## Viet

VietStar airlines is set to fly. Two things are interesting about the new bird: first it is operated by the military, second it offers cargo service. It will start service as the first domestic cargo airliner with two 737 Boeing freighter.

A way to earn some income for the army

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## Silent Knight

Military engineers have developed a missile simulation system for naval vessels, designation is IR-60VN. It is used to simulate the datalink and communication between the fire control system and Kh-35E/UE missiles.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Military engineers have developed a missile simulation system for naval vessels, designation is IR-60VN. It is used to simulate the datalink and communication between the fire control system and Kh-35E/UE missiles.


It is more than a simulator, the video says, the missile fire control system can be deployed on warships.

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## Viet

News of the day

The emperor and empress of Japan accept the invitation of Vietnamese government and plan a visit for next Spring. Although the emperor eased to possess the power over Japan as he had over thousands of years he is still a symbol of imperial Japan. Pictures when Vietnam president and his spouse visited Japan in March 2014.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> It is more than a simulator, the video says, the missile fire control system can be deployed on warships.


I'm not sure what it's called in English, so I went with the "simulator" thingy 

It can simulate the characteristics of the Kh-35UE missiles, so the maintenance and testing will be easier and no longer need the real missile to be deployed.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> I'm not sure what it's called in English, so I went with the "simulator" thingy
> 
> It can simulate the characteristics of the Kh-35UE missiles, so the maintenance and testing will be easier and no longer need the real missile to be deployed.


Just listening to the video again. Hardly understandable, but it seems to be a computer system that can check status and retrieve data of missiles, e.i. operational status. the Vietnam made system is derived from similar Russian developed one. Vietnamese engineers disassembled russian system components, studied how they are made, and developed a domestic version. It is not a missile simulation system.

Added: though the video says simulation of various antiship missiles, I am not seeing how it simulates? Nor do we seeing computer screens showing missiles flying and be intercepted.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> It doesn't matter what my intelligence is. What matters is indian weapons r not up to standard for domestic use n export yet. Nirbhay can't fly low. Cruise missile is useless if it can't fly low to avoid early detection. High flying low speed missile doesn't work against an adversary like china my indian friend.
> 
> 
> Y do you need help from your boyfriend carlos the fake spaniard? Maybe he can back u up n give u moral support with a few thanks?


Facepalm, Nirbhay is in R&D phase, and failures happen during R&D phase. Before induction one actually need atleast 9 test.

Did I need to remind this?
http://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/the-trouble-with-missiles_b_8272280


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Just listening to the video again. Hardly understandable, but it seems to be a computer system that can check status and retrieve data of missiles, e.i. operational status. the Vietnam made system is derived from similar Russian developed one. Vietnamese engineers disassembled russian system components, studied how they are made, and developed a domestic version. It is not a missile simulation system.
> 
> Added: though the video says simulation of various antiship missiles, I am not seeing how it simulates? Nor do we seeing computer screens showing missiles flying and be intercepted.


Kindly read my post again.

The IR-60VN simulate the *characteristics *or status of a missile and its datalink/communication with the ship's fire control systems. So you don't need a real missile to test the FCS, you just plug that IR-60VN into the ship's interface and start testing. The similar system was used in S-75 and S-125 ADS to performing tests without booting up the entire complex.

It's a testing equipment. I admit that I don't know the English term for this kind of system, so my post was pretty confusing.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Kindly read my post again.
> 
> The IR-60VN simulate the *characteristics *or status of a missile and its datalink/communication with the ship's fire control systems. So you don't need a real missile to test the FCS, you just plug that IR-60VN into the ship's interface and start testing. The similar system was used in S-75 and S-125 ADS to performing tests without booting up the entire complex.
> 
> It's a testing equipment. I admit that I don't know the English term for this kind of system, so my post was pretty confusing.


Ah I got it. Antiship missile simulator.


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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Why this look like,, you indoctrinated by the CCP, China? @Carlosa
> This is same for you, or just me thinking like that? :/



Yes, its the same for me and for everybody else.

This guy's mission in life is to disrupt the thread, its better to ignore him.

@Water Car Engineer Don't waste your time with this guy, it makes no difference at all. Lets ignore him and eventually he'll get tired.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Yup
> 
> MF-STAR+RAN-40L+ 48 Barak-8 ER + 8 BrahMos Mk2 + 8 Nirbhay
> 
> 150 crew size.


Can you tell about tonnage and cost?


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## Viet

We talked about the Philippines. Since the new president Mr Duterte dumps America, I expect he will soon abandon Japan too. They all are evils. Only China is good. Amazing, how a election can change the entire strategic landscape in East Asia. Anyway we should look at the bright sight: America and Japan will have little option but tilt toward Vietnam. We are the only country with a military that is capable to stop Chinese expansion in South China Sea.

Has Japan not promised new patrol ships to Vietnam recently? Such one that is just delivered to the Philippines is not too bad

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> We talked about the Philippines. Since the new president Mr Duterte dumps America, I expect he will soon abandon Japan too. They all are evils. Only China is good. Amazing, how a election can change the entire strategic landscape in East Asia. Anyway we should look at the bright sight: America and Japan will have little option but tilt toward Vietnam. We are the only country with a military that is capable to stop Chinese expansion in South China Sea.
> 
> Has Japan not promised new patrol ships to Vietnam recently? Such one that is just delivered to the Philippines is not too bad



We do not have the military to stop Chinese expansion. What we have is perseverance and a fight to the death mentality. That's why no country will engage Vietnam in a land war on VN turf. They will harass her.

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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> We do not have the military to stop Chinese expansion. What we have is perseverance and a fight to the death mentality. That's why no country will engage Vietnam in a land war on VN turf. They will harass her.


We are having and building a suitable maritime deterrence force, that's enough.



Viet said:


> Ah I got it. Antiship missile simulator.


Yup, that's the one 

The Vietnamese term is literally translated as "fake missile system"

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> We do not have the military to stop Chinese expansion. What we have is perseverance and a fight to the death mentality. That's why no country will engage Vietnam in a land war on VN turf. They will harass her.


yes, Vietnam is a country that seeks harmony but never backs down if anyone seeks confrontation.
but ok, enough with bashing on China, let change the topic a bit. "Ao Dai" fashion show, held in Beijing. among the guests, visiting PM Phuc

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Facepalm, Nirbhay is in R&D phase, and failures happen during R&D phase. Before induction one actually need atleast 9 test.
> 
> Did I need to remind this?
> http://www.huffingtonpost.in/entry/the-trouble-with-missiles_b_8272280


Which reinforces my earlier assertion that nirbhay is still a failed project.


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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> Which reinforces my earlier assertion that nirbhay is still a failed project.


You reinforce yourself with anything. Did that matter?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> We talked about the Philippines. Since the new president Mr Duterte dumps America, I expect he will soon abandon Japan too. They all are evils. Only China is good. Amazing, how a election can change the entire strategic landscape in East Asia. Anyway we should look at the bright sight: America and Japan will have little option but tilt toward Vietnam. We are the only country with a military that is capable to stop Chinese expansion in South China Sea.
> 
> Has Japan not promised new patrol ships to Vietnam recently? Such one that is just delivered to the Philippines is not too bad



Hey, did you read the news of the Indonesian made corvettes that after receiving orders to fire missiles in an exercise that was being watched by the Indonesian president, they could not fire the missiles for a while and when they finally fired, they missed their target? Those missiles are chinese made missiles by the way. I wonder how much we would it have to hear from the sis madokafc if that were to have happened to the Vietnamese navy. She would surely say things like "Even the Cambodian navy can do better". @Silent Knight


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Hey, did you read the news of the Indonesian corvettes that after receiving orders to fire missiles in an exercise that was being watched by the Indonesian president, they could not fire the missiles for a while and when they finally fired, they missed their target? Those missiles are chinese made missiles by the way. I wonder how much we would it have to hear from the sis madokafc if that were to have happened to the Vietnamese navy. She would surely say things like "Even the Cambodian navy can do better".
> 
> View attachment 334975


Which ship is this?


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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Which ship is this?



KRI Clurit-641, a Indonesian made KCR-40-class missile boat, 250-ton, 43 meters long with chinese C705 missiles.

http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Clurit-class_fast_attack_craft

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Hey, did you read the news of the Indonesian made corvettes that after receiving orders to fire missiles in an exercise that was being watched by the Indonesian president, they could not fire the missiles for a while and when they finally fired, they missed their target? Those missiles are chinese made missiles by the way. I wonder how much we would it have to hear from the sis madokafc if that were to have happened to the Vietnamese navy. She would surely say things like "Even the Cambodian navy can do better". @Silent Knight
> 
> View attachment 334975


Yes I accidentally came across. Indonesia apparently bought downgraded export version of antiship missiles that are downgraded from original Chinese missiles


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yes I accidentally came across. Indonesia apparently bought downgraded export version of antiship missiles that are downgraded from original Chinese missiles



And the original Chinese missile is a downgraded copy of Russian missiles.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> And the original Chinese missile is a downgrade copy of Russian missiles.


Lol has sis mado bragged she works for sales department? I believe after this disaster her year end bonus is at risk

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Lol has sis mado bragged she works for sales department? I believe after this disaster her year end bonus is at risk



And you know what she said in the Indo thread? Well, this is why missile trials are done, to find the problems so that we can fix them.

Really? I think missile trials are done when a ship gets commissioned, not after 8 ships of that class are already operational (and by the way, the ship in question was the first one of that class) and certainly not on exercises being watched by the president. Whatever issues those ships / missiles have should have been worked out during the ship's trials not on a exercise like this. This is very embarrassing.

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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> You reinforce yourself with anything. Did that matter?


What r u saying? Was i wrong to say nirbhay is failed project? Nirbhay can only fly low for 100 km, mate.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> And you know what she said in the Indo thread? Well, this is why missile trials are done, to find the problems so that we can fix them.
> 
> Really? I think missile trials are done when a ship gets commissioned, not after 8 ships of that class are already operational (and by the way, the ship in question was the first one of that class) and certainly not on exercises being watched by the president. Whatever issues those ships / missiles have should have been worked out during the ship's trials not on a exercise like this. This is very embarrassing.


Yes very embarrassing for a self proclaimed leader of ASEAN

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Yes very embarrassing for a self proclaimed leader of ASEAN



I recall the T-14 stalling, or the driver was incompetent. Regardless, the world was watching. That bruised Putin's ego for sure, and the crew of said tank probably got all sent to the Gulag. Every country has their days. Some more than others.

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## Svantana

About delay on C705 missile, rumor say it's because technical communication problem, between crew on presidential ship and field operator..
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2s1kk6v&s=9#.V9x3MZN96Rs
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2j32ydk&s=9#.V9x3HJN96Rs
In video above the missile working properly (operator countdown in Indonesian, and missile launch) the delay just around 4 second not 5 minutes.

We are still learn about this missile system... and evaluate.
And we try hard to master this new system. Just like Yakhont and C802 missile test, at first test it was missed the target, at second test we did it successfully (video bellow).





Hope my explanation can answer your question.
Salute from Indonesian comrade.

@Langkasukan please respect other don't provoke other.

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## Svantana

Langkasukan said:


> If your explanation is "TRUE" .. It is good news for China .... Don't destroy their "Good Reputation" because of "incompetency" of your people to launch that missile ...


it is up to you to be understood or not


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## Silent Knight

Shit happens all the time, no need to bash our Indo fellows, my friends 

** Disclaimer: Regarding your observation and @Carlosa claims, I have no connection and/or access to Vietnamese military secrets and restricted bases. So do not report me to the authorities

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## Nike

Viet said:


> Lol has sis mado bragged she works for sales department? I believe after this disaster her year end bonus is at risk



no problemo to me after all my parents company is came from US and we had connection with Indonesian Air Forces in related F16 project, so your worries is misplaced

for the C705 thingy is if you look at my post i am not conveniently sitting with the idea to purchase and lisence them. Though it just a little setback, after all our main combatants fleets is armed with Exocet, C802 and Yakhont missiles

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Shit happens all the time, no need to bash our Indo fellows, my friends
> 
> ** Disclaimer: Regarding your observation and @Carlosa claims, I have no connection and/or access to Vietnamese military secrets and restricted bases. So do not report me to the authorities



Too late, already reported to C2. They want to see you tomorrow at 8 am sharp for a green tea drinking session.



madokafc said:


> no problemo to me after all my parents company is came from US and we had connection with Indonesian Air Forces in related F16 project, so your worries is misplaced
> 
> for the C705 thingy is if you look at my post i am not conveniently sitting with the idea to purchase and lisence them. Though it just a little setback, after all our main combatants fleets is armed with Exocet, C802 and Yakhont missiles



All is fine, the actual setback is that this type of testing needs to be done in private and previously while working out the interface and performance of the ship and missile. not in an exercise being watched by the president.

And yes, its a bad idea to work with chinese missiles. And on top of everything, the delay to do the TOT seems to be based on "copyright concerns" of the technology that they stole from the Russians in the first place. That's really comical.


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## Viet

Will the coast guard use eurocopter?

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## Silent Knight

Meanwhile in the Phù Cát AFB, home of the 925th Fighter Regiment.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Will the coast guard use eurocopter?



As I remember, yes, They want to use those helicopters on the DN-2000 / 4000 ships. They are better suited than the Russian ones.

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## Aqsuperman

In the future, i think that Coast Guard and Fisheries control will employ more European helicopters, much better for ship - to - ship operations while concentrate and upgrade the Kamov fleet for warship uses.

A EC 155 landing on CSB 8004. Currently there are several line of non - combat capable European helicopters in service such as Puma, Dauphi and EC

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## Viet

Not everyone knows him: the US ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius. One of the two most frequently guests to the Army headquarters. The other guest is China ambassador to Vietnam. Here again, when Vietnam government chief Prime minister Phuc flies to China for consultation, he visits the Army chief. The two guys apparently want to be kept updated what's going on 






He can speak and understand Vietnamese. Though with little accent. For an American it is not too bad. He is especially interested of Vietnam history. On a visit to the former headquarters of Vietnamese army during the decisive battle of Dien bien phu. The man of the left is the youngest son of late Vo Nguyen Giap.

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## Farhan Bohra

hoangsa74 said:


> What r u saying? Was i wrong to say nirbhay is failed project? Nirbhay can only fly low for 100 km, mate.




Do you know meaning of R&D phase at industrial level?

But you CPC chaps never able to understand this as you guys always done stealing.



Langkasukan said:


> YUP .. Indon want to save money .. but now got nothing from China
> 
> I can't understand why Indon still "confident" with their 'DOWNGRADE" 'C705 missiles for their KCR-40 ...
> 
> Based on info available .. Indon has already purchased 500 units of C705 from China as a "pre conditrion" for their ToT scheme with China...but, it is still no "major progress" in their ToT with China (after 10 years)...


@hoangsa74 cousins doing very decent job in R&D and quality control.

That is not sea hugging but sea kissing( new tech. developed by CPC chaps).



Svantana said:


> About delay on C705 missile, rumor say it's because technical communication problem, between crew on presidential ship and field operator..
> http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2s1kk6v&s=9#.V9x3MZN96Rs
> http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2j32ydk&s=9#.V9x3HJN96Rs
> In video above the missile working properly (operator countdown in Indonesian, and missile launch) the delay just around 4 second not 5 minutes.
> 
> We are still learn about this missile system... and evaluate.
> And we try hard to master this new system. Just like Yakhont and C802 missile test, at first test it was missed the target, at second test we did it successfully (video bellow).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope my explanation can answer your question.
> Salute from Indonesian comrade.
> 
> @Langkasukan please respect other don't provoke other.



Seems like BrahMos quality control is better than Yakhont, that's why in 50 tests of BrahMos , that always hit the target.

Even after being sub standard of Yakhont. Right @hoangsa74? :Rofl:

This is the reason India use Indian/Israeli build seekers in BrahMos.





Viet said:


> Yes very embarrassing for a self proclaimed leader of ASEAN


But India Japan openly backing Vietnam as leader of ASEAN. :/

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## Viet

Radar guided Redut P35 Missile, nearly as old as the Army´s T55 Tanks, but is still as deadly as hell. range 500km, speed 1.4 Mach, 1,000kg conventional warhead. the missile system was delivered by the USSR during Sino-Vietnam war, can destroy 100,000 ton aircraft carrier with a single blow.

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## Bennedict

Viet said:


> Yes I accidentally came across. Indonesia apparently bought downgraded export version of antiship missiles that are downgraded from original Chinese missiles


If they did downgrade it, do the Chinese want to make themselves look like a bad seller? The main problems were reported as miscommunication between commands during the exercises, and techical reasons (rumored) that the missile were fired beyond the ship's radar range (BLOS). 




Carlosa said:


> And the original Chinese missile is a downgraded copy of Russian missiles.


Russian? I thought it was Exocet? (the C-705)


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## GraveDigger388

Carlosa said:


> It doesn't really matter bro, they stole the tech and then act like if they have to protect their "copyright". A thief trying to protect their stolen IPR.



*A Random Chinese members: "THAT IS OUR POLICY TO GAIN POWER IN NO TIME!!!"*

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Will the coast guard use eurocopter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


​
This is the best part of the Eurocopter, its lethal !!!!

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> This is the best part of the Eurocopter, its lethal !!!!
> 
> View attachment 335339


who has more curves, the lady or eurocopter tiger?


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Radar guided Redut P35 Missile, nearly as old as the Army´s T55 Tanks, but is still as deadly as hell. range 500km, speed 1.4 Mach, 1,000kg conventional warhead. the missile system was delivered by the USSR during Sino-Vietnam war, can blow 100,000 ton aircraft carrier up with a single hit.



Has this ever been used?


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Has this ever been used?


against chinese aircraft carrier? no, not yet


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> against chinese aircraft carrier? no, not yet



Against anyone...



Viet said:


> who has more curves, the lady or eurocopter tiger?



I'm sorry, but the lady got a bigger reaction from me.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Has this ever been used?


Nope.

It was designed to solely engage and destroy the US carrier battle group. I'm pretty sure we haven't had a World War 3, so no, it only acts as a deterrent weapon system.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> who has more curves, the lady or eurocopter tiger?



Definitely the girl !!!!


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Nope.
> 
> It was designed to solely engage and destroy the US carrier battle group. I'm pretty sure we haven't had a World War 3, so no, it only acts as a deterrent weapon system.



This might sound silly, but why won't the government invest in the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa project if we need a deterrent?


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## hoangsa74

Farhan Bohra said:


> Do you know meaning of R&D phase at industrial level?
> 
> But you CPC chaps never able to understand this as you guys always done stealing.
> 
> 
> @hoangsa74 cousins doing very decent job in R&D and quality control.
> 
> That is not sea hugging but sea kissing( new tech. developed by CPC chaps).
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like BrahMos quality control is better than Yakhont, that's why in 50 tests of BrahMos , that always hit the target.
> 
> Even after being sub standard of Yakhont. Right @hoangsa74? :Rofl:
> 
> This is the reason India use Indian/Israeli build seekers in BrahMos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But India Japan openly backing Vietnam as leader of ASEAN. :/


LOL, r&d already speaks for yourself. Your nirbhay is still in r n d phase, it's not even a working one yet. 

And what is cpc? something to do with china? This thread has nothing to do with china so stay on topic. this thread is about super indian weapons and what they can do to "stop" a Chinese take over of the spratly. So far, no indian weapon is a game changer that can tip the tide of the battle for the viet in the spratly.

I repeat again, yakhont in the viet's inventory is 40, Brahmos is 0. The worst thing is that not even one country in south east asia ghettos has bought any indian made weapons,...but they have bought Chinese weapons. india can tout how superior indian weapons all she can,..but at the end of the day it's up to the customers if they take those indian claims seriously or not. ...and so far NO customers of indian weapons. ..even with a 600 million loan shark.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> This might sound silly, but why won't the government invest in the Truong Sa and Hoang Sa project if we need a deterrent?


You mean tthe Truong Sa and Hoang Sa submarines? The ones that were made by civilians?


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> You mean tthe Truong Sa and Hoang Sa submarines? The ones that were made by civilians?



Yes. 3 days submerged is plenty of time.


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## Carlosa

*The Legend of the Vietnam War’s Mystery Fighter Ace*
*http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...tnam-wars-mystery-fighter-ace-17747?page=show
*




Col. Nguyen Tomb — or “Toon” — is one of the names immortalized in military aviation, like Baron von Richthofen and Eddie Rickenbacker.

I first encountered Tomb when I was 10 years old, playing Chuck Yeager’s Air Combat on my dad’s computer. In one mission, you fly against the Vietnamese ace, infamous for having scored 13 air-to-air kills.

Tomb was the only Vietnamese pilot named in the game, and I was curious, like many others before and since, to learn more about this mysterious aviator. The top-scoring American pilots in Vietnam, by comparison, had only five kills each.

On paper, the air war over Vietnam should have been a grossly one-sided contest. The U.S. Air Force and Navy, the strongest air arms in the world, opposed the jets of the Vietnam People’s Air Force, averaging 70 warplanes in the early years of the air war, and peaking at 200 near the end.

It was far from one-sided. The Vietnamese received extensive technical assistance, training and replacement aircraft from Russia and China. They also drew upon decades of experience fighting materially stronger opponents.

Vietnamese MiG fighters launched hit-and-run attacks on U.S. attack formations that flew on predictable schedules, inflicting heavy losses even on supersonic F-105 Thunderchief bombers. Ground-based radars guided Vietnamese pilots into perfect ambush positions.

American aviators, in turn, had rules of engagement prohibiting them from firing missiles at unidentified aircraft or attacking enemy airfields. The Vietnamese ultimately lost more aircraft than they shot down in air-to-air combat, but they forced many air raids to abort mission and ditch their bombs.

NSA signals intelligence units spying on Vietnamese radio communications appear to be responsible for Tomb’s rise to fame. An NSA report made public through the Freedom Of Information Act, tells us how it began.

_…the NSA could identify each North Vietnamese pilot by his own unique call sign suffix […] SIGINT analysts became familiar with many of the unseen North Vietnamese flyers and built case histories on individual pilots, their ranks, organizations, number of missions flown, even their combat records._

This is how they discovered Tomb, “an airborne outlaw in the image of a Wild West gunslinger” and “the first SIGINT-confirmed enemy ace.” To clarify, an “ace” is a pilot who has shot down at least five enemy aircraft.

In the NSA’s account, Tomb was such a serious threat that the commander of the U.S. 7th Air Force was “obsessed” with shooting him down, and the NSA alerted the general everytime Tomb was scheduled to fly. The report concluded with a detailed account of how the “Red Baron of North Vietnam” “single-handedly wrecked a strategic bombing mission.”

A photo also circulated of a MiG-17 numbered 3020 with over a half-dozen stars on its nose — each star representing an American plane shot down. This could only be the fighter of the infamous Tomb himself.

The MiG-17 “Fresco” evolved from the MiG-15 fighters flown extensively in the Korean War, featuring sharply swept back wings. It was a generation behind the F-4 Phantom, the top U.S. fighter of the time.

While the F-4 flew faster than Mach 2, the MiG-17 could not quite reach Mach 1 in level flight. And unlike the MiG-21 fighters in Vietnamese service, the MiG-17 couldn’t carry air-to-air missiles, relying instead on a heavy 37-millimeter and two 23-millimeter cannons. Nor did the plane have hydraulic controls, making it sluggish to handle at high speeds.

But despite these disadvantages, the MiG-17 was exceptionally maneuverable at slower speeds. Earlier in the conflict, the F-4 was plagued by its dependency on unreliable air-to-air missiles. If a MiG-17 closed into dogfighting range, it could easily out turn an F-4 and shoot it down — unless the Phantom pilot hit the throttle to disengage.

Another photo that made an impression depicted a slender MiG-21 fighter, technologically a close match for the Phantom. It was numbered 4326 and had 13 victory stars under the canopy. This too was thought to be Tomb’s fighter, because who else could have scored so many kills?

*The Colonel’s Last Battle:*

In 1972, the United States began Operation Linebacker, an intense aerial bombardment campaign against North Vietnam that lasted six months. On May 10, 11 North Vietnamese fighters and four F-4 Phantoms were shot down in a series of sharp engagements.

It was proving a good day for Navy Lt. Randy “Duke” Cunningham, and his back-seat radio intercept officer Lt. Junior Grade William “Irish” Driscoll.

Both were graduates of the Navy’s Top Gun school, which taught advanced air combat tactics — and they already had two kills to their names. As they flew their F-4J on a strike against the Hai Dong railyards, their formation came under attack by MiG-17s.

Cunningham turned sharply toward one and shot it down with a Sidewinder missile.

He then saw his wingman locked in a dogfight against eight MiG-17s. Several were on the tail of Cdr. Dwight Timm’s F-4. He got into firing position behind the 17s, but didn’t shoot because his heat-seeking Sidewinder missiles might have locked onto the hot twin engines of Timm’s Phantom.

“Break!” he barked at Timm. Timm complied with a sharp turn, giving Cunningham a clear shot for his second kill of the day.

The outnumbered F-4 pilots then disengaged, throttling up their engines to head for home.

Cunningham suddenly noticed a lone MiG-17 heading straight toward him. He decided to meet its approach — a nearly fatal mistake as the MiG-17 spat cannon shells at him in a head on pass.

Lacking a gun on his F-4, Cunningham swerved upwards.

The MiG-17 peeled up in pursuit — rolling over onto the Phantom’s tail. With only a short distance between them, Cunningham could see the number 3020 on the MiG.

He attempted to shake the nimble fighter with a rolling scissors maneuver, but the MiG pilot matched his Phantom’s every move.

The two aircraft burned up their energy in a series of tight turns, slowing further and further until the heavier Phantom was close to stalling.

This kind of low-speed knife-fighting was the MiG-17’s strength. Driscoll inquired nervously whether Cunningham shouldn’t abandon the fight — but Cunningham refused to give up.

Instead, he lit his afterburners, making the engine gulp fuel at a prodigious rate, and surged two miles ahead before turning around for another head on pass at the MiG, this time at an angle so the MiG couldn’t shoot back.

It didn’t work — the MiG latched immediately back on his tail.

So Cunningham disengaged and turned around a second time — but this time, as the MiG began to line up on his tail after the pass, he cut the throttle and hit the airbrakes. Denied thrust, the Phantom fell behind the MiG-17. But Cunningham’s fighter was too close for his missiles to lock onto the vulnerable MiG.

The MiG pilot rolled into a steep dive toward the ground, the heat from which would soon mask him from heat-seeking missiles.

As the MiG distanced itself from Cunningham, he fired a Sidewinder missile. It hit the MiG, which plummeted into the ground and exploded. There was no parachute in sight. Tomb had been defeated.

Shortly afterwards, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile hit Cunningham’s Phantom. Nursing his flaming fighter towards the coast, Cunningham and Driscoll ejected just over the water’s edge and were rescued at sea. They had shot down three fighters in one day, and had become the first U.S. aces in Vietnam.

Driscoll went on to work as an instructor at the Navy’s Top Gun school. Cunningham served 15 years as a Republican congressman for California before being jailed for corruption in 2005.

*Legend and Myth:*

As relations improved with Vietnam over the years, aviation historians began to inquire with Hanoi’s top pilots, seeking to learn more about the legendary Col. Tomb.

They all received the same reply — “Colonel who?”

None of the Vietnamese pilots had heard of Col. Tomb, and he was not in any of their records.

Tomb and “Toon” are not even Vietnamese names. (Some argue the NSA may have misheard the names “Tuan” or “Tonh.”) Most Vietnamese aces flew MiG-21s, not the older MiG-17s, and didn’t switch plane types back and forth.

Logically, there doesn’t seem to be any reason the Vietnamese air force would cover up its highest scoring ace — such an individual would have been highly celebrated. And other pilots lost in action had been commemorated, not erased from history.

Tomb wasn’t a legend. He was a myth.

But the Vietnamese disavowal didn’t put an end to the legend.

One theory was that Tomb was a Russian pilot. During the Korean War, Russian pilots had flown in Chinese and North Korean air force units. Thousands of Russian technical advisers assisted North Vietnamese forces during the Vietnam War. But post-war, no Russians have claimed to have flown in air-to-air combat in Vietnam.

A U.S. pilot, Col. Jack Broughton, claimed in his memoir Thud Ridge that he had seen a Russian pilot in the cockpit of an opposing MiG-19 with “blonde hair and blue eyes.” It seems quite a feat of perception.

There is one Russian credited with shooting down six American planes. But he was the commander of a surface-to-air missile battalion.

Another theory is that Tomb was actually two pilots — Din Tonh (hence “Toon”), and Dang Ngoc Ngu. The latter scored more aerial victories, while the former had a reputation as a maverick prone to lone wolf attacks. Supposedly, Din Tonh would sneak into formation alongside American fighters, waiting to see how long they took to notice his presence.

But both pilots flew MiG-21s, not MiG-17s, and neither were present for the air battle on May 10, 1972.

Another theory advanced by aviation historian Tom Cooper, a War Is Boring contributor, is that SIGINT picked up the call sign of Le Thanh Dao, a Vietnamese ace with six kills to his name, who was known to be flying on that day. But Le Thanh Dao flew a MiG-21, and was not shot down that day.

And what does the NSA report have to say about Tomb’s fate? “When the air war was at last winding down, Comrade Toon, decorated and promoted, was a forward ground controller, directing MiG reactions to U.S. air operations.”

So who was Cunningham’s opponent? Some argue he was a senior officer of the 923rd Fighter Regiment with the authority to ignore orders to disengage.

The Vietnamese air force claims he was a pilot named Nguyen Van Tho, and that he survived the loss of his plane — which doesn’t correspond to the explosion Cunningham witnessed.

*The Real Col. Tomb:*

To invert a popular saying — the Americans didn’t need to invent Colonel Tomb, because he already existed.

Nguyen Van Coc, Hanoi’s top-scoring ace, had nine air-to-air kills in his MiG-21. And the MiG-21 he flew? It was number 4326.

The 13 stars tallied on his plane included the victories of other pilots who had flown it, as per Vietnamese air force custom.

Nguyen Van Coc was 26 years old when he and a dozen other Vietnamese pilots trained in Russia in 1966 to operate the MiG-21 — the hottest ride in the Soviet inventory at the time. In his youth, his father and uncle were members of the Viet Minh and were killed by the French.

Van Coc was shot down before scoring his first kill on Jan. 2, 1967 in Operation Bolo, a U.S. aerial ambush. He went on to destroy an F-105 in an attack out of the sun on April 30, and then scored eight more kills through December 1969 using heat-seeking R-3 Atoll missiles.

Of nine victories, two were drones, and for the aircraft, six of the seven can be confirmed in U.S. records — making him the top-scoring pilot of the war no matter how you count it.

Van Coc was then pulled out of frontline service to focus on training the next generation of Vietnamese pilots, who were heavily engaged in the air battles of 1972. His protégé, Nguyen Doc Soat, went on to score six victories.

Another Vietnamese ace, Nguyen Van Bay, scored his seven kills flying the older, slower MiG-17.

His victims included Korean war ace Maj. James Kasler, and two Navy F-8 Crusaders — much more agile aircraft than the F-4.

He was one of the few pilots since World War II to successfully hit a U.S. Navy ship when he and his wingman Le Xuan Di bombed the USS Oklahoma City and USS Highbee, respectively. (Other attempted MiG attacks suffered heavy losses from naval SAMs.)

All three of these aces survived the war.

Van Coc retired as Chief Inspector of the Vietnamese air force in 2002, while Duc Soat ended his career as Deputy Chief of the Army in 2008. Van Bay now grows mangos on a farm outside Ho Chi Minh City — an account of his meeting with one of his former aerial opponents, Col. Ralph Wetterhahn, makes for fascinating reading.

Unlike American pilots, most of whom returned home after a single tour of duty, many Vietnamese pilots served for most of the conflict. Because there were so many American planes and fewer Vietnamese fighters, the best pilots racked up more aerial victories. In all, there were 16 Vietnamese aces recognized in the war.

Tomb is a fascinating case of a hero enshrined in legend by his opponents in the conflict. In the end, searching for the “real” Col. Tomb may be a wild MiG chase — but there were many Vietnamese pilots who lived up to his fearsome reputation.

_This first appeared in WarIsBoring here. _

_Image: Creative Commons. _

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## Viet

All the best for Hillary Clinton 

She made the first visit to Vietnam in 1995, accompanying her husband US president Bill Clinton. America formally ended the period of hostilities and normalized relationship with former foe. 20 years after the Vietnam war. A long time. I made some trips back to Vietnam during that period, Vietnam was still in a terrible shape, with our people enduring hardship. Since then everything has changed. Not everything is good now, but I see we are on a good path. I believe she is definitely a better choice for Vietnam than Donald Trump. A man I don't know what he wants. Nor do most of others know, what he really wants.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Yes. 3 days submerged is plenty of time.


Well, they MIGHT serve as submersible tourism platforms, and that is still a huge risk.

No way we use those for the military.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> LOL, r&d already speaks for yourself. Your nirbhay is still in r n d phase, it's not even a working one yet.
> 
> And what is cpc? something to do with china? This thread has nothing to do with china so stay on topic. this thread is about super indian weapons and what they can do to "stop" a Chinese take over of the spratly. So far, no indian weapon is a game changer that can tip the tide of the battle for the viet in the spratly.
> 
> I repeat again, yakhont in the viet's inventory is 40, Brahmos is 0. The worst thing is that not even one country in south east asia ghettos has bought any indian made weapons,...but they have bought Chinese weapons. india can tout how superior indian weapons all she can,..but at the end of the day it's up to the customers if they take those indian claims seriously or not. ...and so far NO customers of indian weapons. ..even with a 600 million loan shark.


You oversaw several facts: the military cooperation between Vietnam and India has just started recently, with airforce and submarine trainings. Now begins the second phase with cost guard ship building and arms transfer technology. The world is not built in one day.

As for your repeated rants of Chinese invasion of Spratlys, if they could they would have done it long ago. Without your call.

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## Carlosa

*"Accidental"* attack by 4 US aircraft (2 F-16s and 2 A-10s) on Syrian army positions that ended up killing at least 62 Syrian soldiers and wounding a 100 more.

Curiously enough, the Syrian army positions that were attacked had been occupied by the Syrian Army for quite some time which makes the explanation of an accident hard to believe. USA said that was trying to help the Syrian army, but it would be the first time that it tries to do so; it had also not operated in that area at all and it did not inform the Russians either.

Also curiously enough, in what seems to be a coordinated attack with ISIS, as soon as the air strikes stopped, ISIS launched an offensive on those positions.

The Russian spokesperson Maria Sakharova said: *"We had come to the terrible conclusion that the United States supports ISIS".* Well, many people already knew that for quite some time, nothing new there except that this is an official government statement.

Funny that this is the country that always seems to be talking about and denouncing "human rights" abuses or breaches of international law. Of course that standard does not apply to USA, only to its opponents. Many of the jihadis receiving financial and military support by USA and its allies somehow seem to be considered "moderates", they probably behead in a more gentle way I guess.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> View attachment 335525
> 
> 
> *"Accidental"* attack by 4 US aircraft (2 F-16s and 2 A-10s) on Syrian army positions that ended up killing at least 62 Syrian soldiers and wounding a 100 more.
> 
> Curiously enough, the Syrian army positions that were attacked had been occupied by the Syrian Army for quite some time which makes the explanation of an accident hard to believe. USA said that was trying to help the Syrian army, but it would be the first time that it tries to do so; it had also not operated in that area at all and it did not inform the Russians either.
> 
> Also curiously enough, in what seems to be a coordinated attack with ISIS, as soon as the air strikes stopped, ISIS launched an offensive on those positions.
> 
> The Russian spokesperson Maria Sakharova said: *"We had come to the terrible conclusion that the United States supports ISIS".* Well, many people already knew that for quite some time, nothing new there except that this is an official government statement.
> 
> Funny that this is the country that always seems to be talking about and denouncing "human rights" abuses or breaches of international law. Of course that standard does not apply to USA, only to its opponents. Many of the jihadis receiving financial and military support by USA and its allies somehow seem to be considered "moderates", they probably behead in a more gentle way I guess.


It can't be an accident. The US military has learned since Vietnam war. Before the bombers are dispatched, there is a chain of events

- US spy satellites have detected the target and observe it continuesly.

- Awac aircraft have drew up a safe flying route for the bombers, avoiding enemy SAM sites. Fighter jets stand by in case of spotting of enemy aircraft.

- US special forces on the ground such as Navy Seals have identified the target visually and mark it by laser beam.

- Barack Obama as Commander in Chief approves the bombing.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> It can't be an accident. The US military has learned since Vietnam war. Before the bombers are dispatched, there is a chain of events
> 
> - US spy satellites have detected the target and observe it continuesly.
> 
> - Awac aircraft have drew up a safe flying route for the bombers, avoiding enemy SAM sites. Fighter jets stand by in case of spotting of enemy aircraft.
> 
> - US special forces on the ground such as Navy Seals have identified the target visually and mark it by laser beam.
> 
> - Barack Obama as Commander in Chief approves the bombing.



And many more things. Of course was not an accident. Its really bad. This is what Russia gets for trying to cooperate with USA to have a cease fire. Can't make a deal with the party that created the whole mess in the first place.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> And many more things. Of course was not an accident. Its really bad. This is what Russia gets for trying to cooperate with USA to have a cease fire. Can't make a deal with the party that created the whole mess in the first place.


I am not sure if the US government supports the IS terrorists as Russia claims it, but I won't wonder if she does. Politics is a dirty business. The US (and the Chinese) once supported the Red Khmer government that massacred nearly its entire population, just to weaken Vietnam. The IS terrorists wreck havoc on Syria. but since these terrorists also weaken Syrian government, which is Russia ally, well, it can be seen as a welcome action by the US.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I am not sure if the US government supports the IS terrorists as Russia claims it, but I won't wonder if she does. Politics is a dirty business. The US (and the Chinese) once supported the Red Khmer government that massacred nearly its entire population, just to weaken Vietnam. The IS terrorists wreck havoc on Syria. but since these terrorists also weaken Syrian government, which is Russia ally, well, it can be seen as a welcome action by the US.



Since the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the Americans are addicted to using islamic radicals as proxies; in the Syrian case, they are been used as a tool for regime change.They try to hide it, but is not difficult to see it.

In Iraq, when the Iranians started to have a lot of influence on their fellow Shia Iraqi government and it seem like they were starting to take over Iraq, then all of a sudden, many jihadis got freed from the US prisons in Iraq and soon after ISIS was born. Interesting coincidence. US allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar give massive financial assistance as well as military supplies to ISIS, Nusra and company. Turkey too. Who can believe that they are doing all that without the approval of USA.

Same story in Libya and the same results, one country after another destroyed by direct or covert regime change. 

So much for preaching human rights.

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## Viet

a total of 13 light houses are built in Spratlys

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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Well, they MIGHT serve as submersible tourism platforms, and that is still a huge risk.
> 
> No way we use those for the military.



Not as is. They have a submersible platform. Weaponize it.

I'd like to see what it can do with government funding.


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## Viet

T54 tanks in exercise. I believe we can keep them for another 50 years

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> As for your repeated rants of Chinese invasion of Spratlys, if they could they would have done it long ago. Without your call.


The chinese already called the shots in 1956. 1959. 1974. 1988. The only delusional ones who still believe the chinese won't call another shot in scs due to viet's military "prowess" are the like of you. The chinese are not interested in the status quo that's why they keep invading the scs one time after another. I can tell u that even if vietnam had 10 aegis destroyers, vietnam still wouldn't be able to defeat an air and naval assault from the chinese in the spartly. Maybe if your indian friend bring their entire airforce n navy to the scs to fight for vietnam then Vietnam might have a chance. The equipment of the viet military is just for domestic propaganda consumption only buddy, just to make viet people feel better than the phillipnes or laos. Outside of vietnam, not a single soul believes viet military can defeat china in the next coming spartly war.


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## Viet

beautiful 


T55 tank with 100mm main gun







ASU-85 tank with 85mm main gun

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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> Since the Soviet war in Afghanistan, the Americans are addicted to using islamic radicals as proxies; in the Syrian case, they are been used as a tool for regime change.They try to hide it, but is not difficult to see it.
> 
> In Iraq, when the Iranians started to have a lot of influence on their fellow Shia Iraqi government and it seem like they were starting to take over Iraq, then all of a sudden, many jihadis got freed from the US prisons in Iraq and soon after ISIS was born. Interesting coincidence. US allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar give massive financial assistance as well as military supplies to ISIS, Nusra and company. Turkey too. Who can believe that they are doing all that without the approval of USA.
> 
> Same story in Libya and the same results, one country after another destroyed by direct or covert regime change.
> 
> So much for preaching human rights.


It's always your tactic to hide in the viet thread to troll other countries


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Not as is. They have a submersible platform. Weaponize it.
> 
> I'd like to see what it can do with government funding.


I can assure you that the MoD has performed tests on that platform. 

It's impractical to serve as a mini submarine. The best it can do is to become a suicide vessel, but that only possible if you can:
- Remotely control it.
- Make it less noisy.
- Make it actually submerge for a long duration.



Viet said:


> I am not sure if the US government supports the IS terrorists as Russia claims it


Well well, the TOW-2 and modern weapons don't come from the sky. Or is it? 

The US has actively dropped weapon supplies to IS-held territory, along with those "moderate" head-chopping rebels. Those airstrikes they keep bragging about? A year of doing so and IS kept growing, while the Russian only needed a month or so to drive IS back to the border with Turkey.

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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> It's always your tactic to hide in the viet thread to troll other countries



Well, well, the overseas vietnamese boy that often brings up his life in USA to mock vietnamese people and uses USA as a model for human rights, etc now can't handle a doses of reality.

And........ aren't you the one that is always trolling India in this thread?



Silent Knight said:


> The US has actively dropped weapon supplies to IS-held territory, along with those "moderate" head-chopping rebels. Those airstrikes they keep bragging about? A year of doing so and IS kept growing, while the Russian only needed a month or so to drive IS back to the border with Turkey.



Oh, don't you know that those parachuted weapon drops to ISIS happened by "accident", like the shifting winds, navigation errors, etc.

And of course US pilots had never noticed those long convoys of ISIS oil tankers taking oil to Turkey everyday. Funny that Russia happened to notice right away and promptly destroyed them.

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## Carlosa

*Unsung keepers of Vietnam’s sovereignty light at East Vietnam Sea *

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 09/17/2016 15:02 GMT + 7





*There is a team of maintenance workers who live away from family and civilization for months on end to keep watch over the country’s lighthouses and sovereignty on the East Vietnam Sea.*

Every few months, Vietnam’s Hai Dang 05 supply ship sails off, carrying manpower and food to resupply the country’s nine lighthouses on Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago in the East Vietnam Sea.

The scheduled trip has been delayed for some weeks as of mid-September, after two consecutive storms Dianmu and Rai hit Vietnam in August and earlier this month.

“It is very common for us to reschedule supply trips due to fierce storms or strong winds at sea,” Hai Dang 05 Captain Tran Van Nha said.

“There were even times when we had to abort mission due to bad weather despite having arrived at our destination.”

*Unsung heroes*

Bui Van Niem, 53, is among the first generation of maintenance workers to keep watch over Vietnam’s lighthouses at the East Vietnam Sea since 1996.

The seasoned man has guarded six out of nine lighthouses on different islands of Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago, but concerns for the well-being of fellow colleagues still aches his heart each time Niem’s trip is postponed.

According to Nguyen Duc Huy, Deputy Director of East Vietnam Sea and Islands Maritime Safety Company, which is in charge of operating Hai Dang 05, living conditions for maintenance workers on the lighthouses were extremely unfavorable during the first years.

Intervals between resupply shipments lasted up to three months, and any delay would mean hunger for workers on the lighthouses, Huy said.

However, conditions have been greatly improved over the past ten years, with more frequent shipments and available satellite television and communication network.

Speaking over the phone, Vu Si Luu, the 52-year-old chief of Tien Nu lighthouse, said life on the lighthouse is much better now that his team is able to keep in touch with their family and friends since the introduction of communication networks.

In 2011, the company’s first defense flotilla was founded to guarantee safety of transportation for supply shipments to the lighthouses.

“We see ourselves as soldiers who work and fight to protect every inch of our country’s soil and waters,” Bui Van Niem said sternly.

Captain Tran Van Nga said his ship has been threatened by Chinese vessels multiple times while transporting humans and goods to the lighthouses, with the most drastic one occurring last November.

Nga said it was 9:00 am when the Hai Dang 05 was intervened by a cargo ship and two Chinese Coast Guard vessels while it was heading to Song Tu Tay island, part of Vietnam’s Truong Sa archipelago.

After following closely the Vietnamese ship for a while, the Chinese Coast Guard vessels gave way to a naval ship number 995, which took over the pursuit until 12:00 pm the same day.

“We all remained calmed the whole time, and I was in charge of directing the ship’s maneuver to avoid colliding [with the Chinese ships],” sailor Hoang Tho Toan said.

Despite all the dangers and hardship, Vietnam’s light of justice and sovereignty still shines brightly at the East Vietnam Sea for more than 20 years, thanks largely to the workers’ unwavering spirit and solidarity.

Vu Si Luu said the thought of sailors on distant ships feeling less lonely and closer to home upon the sight of his lighthouse’ beam made him fall in love with the job more and more each day.

Meanwhile, chief of An Bang lighthouse Doan Van Tan took pride in taking a part in the protection of his country’s sovereignty, the pride that has kept him motivated all along.

“We are greatly humbled and honored to be the keepers of pearl-like eyes that guide the way for ships in Vietnamese waters,” Niem said.






_The lighthouse on Truong Sa Lon island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago. Photo:_ Tuoi Tre

Vietnam currently has a total of 13 lighthouses in the East Vietnam Sea, nine of which are built on different islands in Truong Sa archipelago while the remaining four are located in the DK1 area.

The first lighthouse in Vietnam’s Truong Sa was built on Song Tu Tay island in 1993, followed by lighthouses Da Lat and Da Tay in 1994, An Bang in 1995, Tien Nu in 2000, Truong Sa Lon in 2010, Son Ca in 2011, Sinh Ton in 2012, and Nam Yet in 2013.

Four lighthouses in the DK1 area are Phuc Tan, Que Duong, Huyen Tran, and Ba Ke.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Well well, the TOW-2 and modern weapons don't come from the sky. Or is it?
> 
> The US has actively dropped weapon supplies to IS-held territory, along with those "moderate" head-chopping rebels. Those airstrikes they keep bragging about? A year of doing so and IS kept growing, while the Russian only needed a month or so to drive IS back to the border with Turkey.


Well, is Uncle Sam not a modern charity man that gives gifts to poor children? 

The Americans have interest in Syria because the country hosts Tartus as the sole Russia naval base outside the former Soviet Union. The other semi permanent one is Camranh bay. Destroying the naval base means weakening Russia military power. besides it benefits the turkey. Why Turkey? Because it is the only Muslim country in the world that has a respected conventional army. The other is nuclear armed Pakistan. The rest, from poor Indonesia to rich Saudi Arabia is negligible. Look, how the Arab armies performed against Israel. Terrible is an understatement.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Well, is Uncle Sam not a modern charity man that gives gifts to poor children?
> 
> The Americans have interest in Syria because the country hosts Tartus as the sole Russia naval base outside the former Soviet Union. The other semi permanent one is Camranh bay. Destroying the naval base means weakening Russia military power. besides it benefits the turkey. Why Turkey? Because it is the only Muslim country in the world that has a respected conventional army. The other is nuclear armed Pakistan. The rest, from poor Indonesia to rich Saudi Arabia is negligible. Look, how the Arab armies performed against Israel. Terrible is an understatement.



That's only an small part of the reason. *The main reason* why US targeted and started the process of regime change in Syria is because Assad rejected allowing a gas pipeline from Qatar to Europe to go through Syrian territory, which by the way, Assad did that in order to protects the Russian gas / oil exports to Europe which are vital to the Russian economy. The Qatar pipeline would allowed Europe to not depend on Russian oil and gas and that's a very important American strategic interest. Right after that, USA put Syria in its crosshairs and the CIA started to create and finance an opposition in Syria, color revolution style. The rest is history.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's only an small part of the reason. *The main reason* why US targeted and started the process of regime change in Syria is because Asad rejected allowing a gas pipeline from Qatar to Europe to go through Syrian territory, which by the way, Asad did that in order to protects the Russian gas / oil exports to Europe which are vital to the Russian economy. The Qatar pipeline would allowed Europe to not depend on Russian oil and gas and that's a very important American strategic interest. Right after that, USA put Syria in its crosshairs and the CIA started to create and finance an opposition in Syria, color revolution style. The rest is history.


Interesting. Haven't known it before. That proves how risky it is if going against a superpower.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Interesting. Haven't known it before. That proves how risky it is if going against a superpower.



Yeah, the thing in Syria, same as the thing in Ukraine, in the end is all about strangling and cornering Russia. That's why the Russians had no choice but to intervene in Syria.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Interesting. Haven't known it before. That proves how risky it is if going against a superpower.


Muammar Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein were killed because they tried to gain more independence from US influence and actually making more benefits for their people. 

We all know how their efforts turned out.

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## Carlosa

Sand Cay Island (đảo Sơn Ca), Spratly islands






Helipad in Sand Cay Island (đảo Sơn Ca)

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Sand Cay Island (đảo Sơn Ca), Spratly islands
> View attachment 335783
> 
> 
> Helipad in Sand Cay Island (đảo Sơn Ca)
> View attachment 335784


Beautiful.

Now we can copy the German Atlantic wall: placing artilleries in bunkers along the island chain


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam Military Telecommunications Group, currently among the few sections that can participate in military commercialization, has been the key developer of our Armed Forced communication equipment and gears. Beyond that, Viettel has appeared in may countries as a considerable bidder for nation - wide projects. Their uses of technology allow a good flow of experience to reach military designer to improve the Army tools and capabilities. 











https://www.ft.com/content/d750360c-7beb-11e6-b837-eb4b4333ee43
A article on the rise of Asian firms

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## anas_nurhafidz

Viet said:


> Well, is Uncle Sam not a modern charity man that gives gifts to poor children?
> 
> The Americans have interest in Syria because the country hosts Tartus as the sole Russia naval base outside the former Soviet Union. The other semi permanent one is Camranh bay. Destroying the naval base means weakening Russia military power. besides it benefits the turkey. Why Turkey? Because it is the only Muslim country in the world that has a respected conventional army. The other is nuclear armed Pakistan. The rest, from poor Indonesia to rich Saudi Arabia is negligible. Look, how the Arab armies performed against Israel. Terrible is an understatement.


dirty poor vietcong said we're muslim country  and compared us with those arabs


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## Shotgunner51

@anas_nurhafidz @Viet
Report received. Gentlemen, be reminded not to violate forum rule about personal/national insult, please debate with proper language, thanks.

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## Silent Knight

And I just leave a quote here ~,~



> Indonesia is constitutionally a secular state (but the government officially recognises only six formal religions), with *Islam* being the dominant religion in the country. Indonesia also has a larger Muslim population than any other country in the world, with approximately 202.9 million identifying themselves as Muslim (*87.2% of Indonesia's total population* in 2011)

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## Silent Knight

FMV-B1 mine-clearing line charge, developed and produced by the Missile Institute of Vietnam People's Army. It can destroy anti-personnel and anti-tank mines, as well as obstacle.

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## TenLua

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/40-most-powerful-military-nations-of-2016/ar-BBpqJQn#page=7

I don't understand how Vietnam is 21 and Australia is 13.....


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> FMV-B1 mine-clearing line charge, developed and produced by the Missile Institute of Vietnam People's Army. It can destroy anti-personnel and anti-tank mines, as well as obstacle.



That's a good one. 

Any website that you can recommend to watch the QPVN military channel or at least their videos?


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/40-most-powerful-military-nations-of-2016/ar-BBpqJQn#page=7
> 
> I don't understand how Vietnam is 21 and Australia is 13.....


Obviously the Aussie has better aircraft and naval vessels. What's your concern?



Carlosa said:


> That's a good one.
> 
> Any website that you can recommend to watch the QPVN military channel or at least their videos?


Their homepage (qpvn.vn) provides full news coverage and documentaries. But sometimes the documentaries on TV channel are not shown on their website, which is a shame. There were instances when you can watched two Su-30MK2V performs simultaneous barrel roll on TV and that was not displayed on the website at all.

Or ComCom channel for a shorter and often more epic video collection 
https://www.youtube.com/comcomvn

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's a good one.
> 
> Any website that you can recommend to watch the QPVN military channel or at least their videos?


mostly in vietnamese, so hardly for foreigners 

mines clearance FMV- B1

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## Silent Knight

The report mentioned "improving", "modernized" and "self-producing" while focusing to the Kh-35U(V) and BM-21M1.






Not sure if this was intentional or just a simple coincidence.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/40-most-powerful-military-nations-of-2016/ar-BBpqJQn#page=7
> 
> I don't understand how Vietnam is 21 and Australia is 13.....


well, if a country as Australia can buy 12 submarines for $50 billions, 9 frigates for $35 billions, then the kangaroo folks deserve a better place than Vietnam

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> The report mentioned "improving", "modernized" and "self-producing" while focusing to the Kh-35U(V) and BM-21M1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this was intentional or just a simple coincidence.


they may refer to the extended version of Kh-35E, with one more booster: Kh-35UE, increasing the range from 130km to 260km. Vietnam made antiship missile Kct-15 reportedly has the same specs as Kh-35UE. in the video, the missiles are stored in the canisters, hence we don´t know how they look like.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Their homepage (qpvn.vn) provides full news coverage and documentaries. But sometimes the documentaries on TV channel are not shown on their website, which is a shame. There were instances when you can watched two Su-30MK2V performs simultaneous barrel roll on TV and that was not displayed on the website at all.
> 
> Or ComCom channel for a shorter and often more epic video collection
> https://www.youtube.com/comcomvn



Yeah, that's also what I had noticed. They should have a page in their website where they stream the tv channel.



Viet said:


> well, if a country as Australia can buy 12 submarines for $50 billions, 9 frigates for $35 billions, then the kangaroo folks deserve a better place than Vietnam



And AEGIS destroyers from Spain (Hobart class) and also 2 light aircraft carriers, also from Spain. That's one hell of a navy, not large, but a lot of high quality assets.

F-18s, F-18 Growler, F-35, etc, etc.

But the comical thing in that list is Thailand at number 20.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> T54 tanks in exercise. I believe we can keep them for another 50 years


any ideas about the tanks maintenance? For example, if the engine or transmission worn out, where to get a new engine or transmission for replacement? Thanks in advance


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> And AEGIS destroyers from Spain (Hobart class) and also 2 light aircraft carriers, also from Spain. That's one hell of a navy, not large, but a lot of high quality assets.
> 
> F-18s, F-18 Growler, F-35, etc, etc.
> 
> But the comical thing in that list is Thailand at number 20.


Spain makes good stuffs 

As for Thailand, I think the country has not reached the full potential yet. Wait until the Thai have submarines for the empty submarine base and aircraft for the empty aircraft carrier, Thailand will rank at the top 10

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Spain makes good stuffs
> 
> As for Thailand, I think the country has not reached the full potential yet. Wait until the Thai have submarines for the empty submarine base and aircraft for the empty aircraft carrier, Thailand will rank at the top 10



Submarines for the gulf of Thailand which is 50-60 meters deep where a plane would easily see any submerged submarines with the naked eye.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Submarines for the gulf of Thailand which is 50-60 meters deep where a plane would easily see any submerged submarines with the naked eye.


The British develop invisible tanks, who knows, maybe the Thai will buy invisible submarines

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> any ideas about the tanks maintenance? For example, if the engine or transmission worn out, where to get a new engine or transmission for replacement? Thanks in advance


there are maintenance and repair facilities with technicians and engineers who disassemble the tanks until the last screw. what can be repaired will be repaired, if can´t then will be replaced by new or refurbished parts. hence the tanks are generally in a good shape.

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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> any ideas about the tanks maintenance? For example, if the engine or transmission worn out, where to get a new engine or transmission for replacement? Thanks in advance


Let's just say that we have a large reserve of spare parts. Also the tanks are kept under strict and controlled conditions to maintain the best combat readiness. Only a few tanks are used rigorously for crew training.



Viet said:


> they may refer to the extended version of Kh-35E, with one more booster: Kh-35UE, increasing the range from 130km to 260km. Vietnam made antiship missile Kct-15 reportedly has the same specs as Kh-35UE. in the video, the missiles are stored in the canisters, hence we don´t know how they look like.


There was a well-known picture of the KCT-15 missile. However, it lacks the air intake which appears on all Kh-35 variants. That lead to several speculations, including a collapsable air intake, kind of like the Kh-101 missile.

But my bet is that it's only a mock-up for exhibition and does not represent the actual KCT-15.

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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Obviously the Aussie has better aircraft and naval vessels. What's your concern?
> 
> 
> Their homepage (qpvn.vn) provides full news coverage and documentaries. But sometimes the documentaries on TV channel are not shown on their website, which is a shame. There were instances when you can watched two Su-30MK2V performs simultaneous barrel roll on TV and that was not displayed on the website at all.
> 
> Or ComCom channel for a shorter and often more epic video collection
> https://www.youtube.com/comcomvn



Not concerned, just couldn't understand it.

Still can't.



Viet said:


> there are maintenance and repair facilities with technicians and engineers who disassemble the tanks until the last screw. what can be repaired will be repaired, if can´t then will be replaced by new or refurbished parts. hence the tanks are generally in a good shape.



Cute.



Viet said:


> well, if a country as Australia can buy 12 submarines for $50 billions, 9 frigates for $35 billions, then the kangaroo folks deserve a better place than Vietnam



Fair point. But I can't see how that can compensate for 5mill+ in troop differences.

You think Australia can repel an attack from a super power? Someone like China?


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Not concerned, just couldn't understand it.
> 
> Still can't.


Most of those ranking are based solely on the numbers, and numers of aircraft/naval vessels make more impression than troops.

I think so.


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Most of those ranking are based solely on the numbers, and numers of aircraft/naval vessels make more impression than troops.
> 
> I think so.



I have to disagree. Too much territory for its military.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> There was a well-known picture of the KCT-15 missile. However, it lacks the air intake which appears on all Kh-35 variants. That lead to several speculations, including a collapsable air intake, kind of like the Kh-101 missile.
> 
> But my bet is that it's only a mock-up for exhibition and does not represent the actual KCT-15.


Kh-35 has visible air intake at the lower part of the missile body and collapsible air wings. So yes, maybe Kct-15 has collapsible air intake that will be unfolded when the booster burns out and turbojet kicks in.

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## Viet

*ADAS 2016: L&T seals deal for Vietnam boats*
19th September 2016
Gordon Arthur in Hong Kong 









Something concrete stemming from Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Vietnam was the signing of a contract for four offshore high-speed patrol boats for the Vietnam Border Defence Force.

The four vessels will be built by Larsen & Toubro (L&T) in India. While no mention was made of the exact type of boat to be sold to Vietnam, L&T’s website lists a fast patrol vessel that is 46m long and has a beam of 8.5m.

Capable of a maximum speed of 33kt, L&T states the platform is ‘optimised for EEZ and coastal patrol, fisheries protection and monitoring, control and surveillance, anti-smuggling, search and rescue, anti-piracy, providing a communication link and escorting coastal convoys’.

L&T also notes that the design of this in-house fast patrol vessel can be customised to specific client requirements.

The purchase will be paid for by a $100 million line of credit offered by Delhi.

The Vietnam Border Defence Force is the branch of the Vietnam People’s Army responsible for protecting the territorial integrity and security of Vietnam and its offshore islands.

During Modi’s diplomatic visit in early September, the two countries upgraded their relationship to a comprehensive strategic partnership. Russia and China already share such a relationship with Vietnam.

This was the first visit by an Indian head of state to Vietnam for 15 years. As India pursues its ‘Act East’ policy of greater engagement with Asia, Vietnam stands out as a key ally.

India also offered Vietnam a $500 million line of credit for ‘facilitating mutual defence cooperation’. One piece of equipment India is touting to Hanoi is BrahMos cruise missiles. Significantly, no mention was made of this during Modi’s visit.

India also promised a $5 million grant to construct an army software park at the Telecommunications University in Nha Trang. A cybersecurity MoU was signed too between Vietnam’s Ministry of Public Security and India’s Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology.

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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> Let's just say that we have a large reserve of spare parts. Also the tanks are kept under strict and controlled conditions to maintain the best combat readiness. Only a few tanks are used rigorously for crew training.



thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. 
also a thank you to @Viet for your response.

One more question, no offense, can Vietnam nowadays manufacturer the engines or transmission for T54/55 MBT? To me, if Vietnam really wants to keep these grandpa tanks for another 30 or 50 years, there is no other way but to produce the core spare parts on your own.

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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.
> also a thank you to @Viet for your response.
> 
> One more question, no offense, can Vietnam nowadays manufacturer the engines or transmission for T54/55 MBT? To me, if Vietnam really wants to keep these grandpa tanks for another 30 or 50 years, there is no other way but to produce the core spare parts on your own.


The official and simple answer is no, we cannot and do not manufacture the engine or transmission for these tanks. That's why the AMV upgrade package includes a new engine.

And we will keep them for 50 years maybe, but under long term reserve. The T-34s are approaching 70 years old and we have put all of them into storage. Same thing will happen with the T-54/55 and Type-59.


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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> The official and simple answer is no, we cannot and do not manufacture the engine or transmission for these tanks. That's why the AMV upgrade package includes a new engine.
> 
> And we will keep them for 50 years maybe, but under long term reserve. The T-34s are approaching 70 years old and we have put all of them into storage. Same thing will happen with the T-54/55 and Type-59.



thanks again for the response.
Then it means the fleet size of these old tanks will be gradually shrunk, for example to disassemble the parts from three bad conditioned tanks to make sure the good condition of one tank. There is no other easy short cut.

High temperature and humidity are the largest enemies to equipment storage, especially to the long years old equipment.

Good luck


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## Nike

Silent Knight said:


> And I just leave a quote here ~,~



we are consciusly more secular and still value traditional norms tracing back into pre Islam era


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> thanks again for the response.
> Then it means the fleet size of these old tanks will be gradually shrunk, for example to disassemble the parts from three bad conditioned tanks to make sure the good condition of one tank. There is no other easy short cut.
> 
> High temperature and humidity are the largest enemies to equipment storage, especially to the long years old equipment.
> 
> Good luck


Yup. As we cannot replace thousands of tanks instantly, they'll be gradually phased out and likely cannibalized for spare parts in the long term.

That and the increasing number of T-90MS MBT.


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## Carlosa

*Report: Taiwan building anti-aircraft gun towers in South China Sea*





TAIPEI, Taiwan, Sept. 20 (UPI) -- Taiwan may be building anti-aircraft defenses on Taiping Island in the South China Sea as China continues to conduct military exercises in the maritime region.

Taiping, also known as Itu Aba Island, is the largest of the disputed Spratly Islands that have been claimed by China, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines.

According to Taiwanese newspaper China Times and other local sources, satellite images show the Taiwan-occupied island now includes new construction that includes what appears to be anti-aircraft gun blockhouse towers.

The local press report included images from Google Maps of four new buildings, built in the shape of concrete tetrapod structures.

The buildings appear to be about three to four stories tall and face the island's western coast, and are five to six times bigger than the existing 40-mm anti-aircraft weapons systems on the island.

The buildings are likely being used as anti-aircraft gun blockhouse towers, according to the report.

Qian Qichen, a lawmaker with Taiwan's Nationalist Party, had confirmed the existence of the buildings after visiting Taiping in July, but did not elaborate on their use.

Qian was visiting the island to stake out Taiwan's territorial claims.

Some experts say the buildings may also be being used as early warning facilities, according to Taiwan's FTV News.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> I have to disagree. Too much territory for its military.


If you look at Australia, what do you have in mind? Correct. a country at the end of the world, massive land mass, abundant natural resources, lots of kangaroos and beautiful beach girls 

But Australia's problem is the lack of people. those few Aussie have to defend the country against perceived hostile close and distant neighbors (you can guess whom. A tip: it is not Vietnam) and fulfill their obligation in the military alliance with America and England. But thanks heaven and natural resources they have money to buy weapons. Don't need to blame Australia. Nor Singapore. Both have one thing in common: rich. And if you are rich but your neighbors are poor, what would you do? Yes, you build up a big wall, buying guns, hiring security guards. GDP per capita, Singapore and Australia have the highest military spending on this planet. The world is bad.

The trio America, Japan and England will rescue Australia should it come to a war.

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## Carlosa

I've read news today that China is building a big port in Cambodia that can be used as a naval base. Cambodia is becoming a problem.

I can see that need to up the military presence in Phu Quoc island. Set up a real naval base, air defenses and a battery of anti ship missiles.

@Silent Knight Your opinion?


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> I've read news today that China is building a big port in Cambodia that can be used as a naval base. Cambodia is becoming a problem.
> 
> I can see that need to up the military presence in Phu Quoc island. Set up a real naval base, air defenses and a battery of anti ship missiles.
> 
> @Silent Knight Your opinion?


Nah, I won't say anything. But you should know that it was not unexpected for us.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Nah, I won't say anything. But you should know that it was not unexpected for us.



Expected or unexpected, still have to deal with it. This is not a good development.


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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Expected or unexpected, still have to deal with it. This is not a good development.


As an expected development, there are certain measures to take already.


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## Aqsuperman

Another batch of military vehicle has reached our harbor. From IAG, these are Guardian APC.


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## Viet

Phu Quoc has become a major military base when the Red Khmer army attacked our island in the 1970s. I also believe the army will take necessary measures if there are new emerging threats in the southern theater. But that is a game we can't win. the Chinese have more men more money more military hardware more resources more everything. They build 10 naval bases in a year, while we build one. If any. Such news makes me happy: the government just approves a $310 million sea port in quang ninh. Strategically more important as it lies in South China Sea.






Read more at http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/343149/pm-approves-quang-ninh-seaport.html#FI6L6QI5PztMBPyw.99

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## Aqsuperman

More pictures of the Guardian APC with turret shield and fire holes visible.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> More pictures of the Guardian APC with turret shield and fire holes visible.


Looks not too bad. Are they for the police or army? What about the specs and how many pieces are bought? I suppose we install Vietnam made machine guns?


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> Looks not too bad. Are they for the police or army? What about the specs and how many pieces are bought? I suppose we install Vietnam made machine guns?



Fairly good for a APC. The armor is B7 - rated so 7.62mm armor piercing and shell fragment wont get through. 10 fully loaded troops can be carried inside and since it got flexible mounting, we can install whatever we want. While im not sure who will be the main user, the Police already got RAM 2000 and Barracuda so i think this may go to the Army


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## Viet

a sort of jamming transmitter, Vietnam made device named GN-1205, jamming 2G/3G mobile phones.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> a sort of jamming transmitter, Vietnam made device named GN-1205, jamming 2G/3G mobile phones.


He, too big. There is another indigenous model which fits nicely into a backpack.

However, I wouldn't recommend using it when it's on your back


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> He, too big. There is another indigenous model which fits nicely into a backpack.
> 
> However, I wouldn't recommend using it when it's on your back


similar to such one?* *


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> similar to such one?* *


Minus the protruding antenna

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## Viet

_



_







A new development of the army: unmanned artillery

A battery consists of 6 x 57mm artillery guns, acquisition radar, fire control radar, several computers commanding firing and communications. Caliber 57×348mm, 360 degree operational, max firing rate 120 rpm, range 6km.

And the crew?

in bunkers.

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## Viet

4.7kg pure gold: the emperial seal of the Nguyen emperor Minh Mang. if anynone has interest can visit the archaeology museum in the city of Herne (Germany). all items on loan from Vietnam 

https://www.vietnam-ausstellung.de/











at the tomb of Minh Mang in the old capital city of Hue

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## Silent Knight

No news about the T-90MS commission, but some classes have returned from Russia. I just "don't know" what they learned there.


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## Viet

Soon the entire sea floor is mapped and categorized. Along with all other components completing the kill chain in place, the hunting season can begin 


Vietnam made 1,550 ton Exploration vessel HSV 6613











Kilo attack submarine

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## cochine

Last update 17:31 | 21/09/2016
 


*Vietnamese, Cambodian artillery forces boost ties
*
_The Vietnamese Ministry of Defence and the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) always support and facilitate cooperation between artillery forces of Vietnam and Cambodia, a senior Vietnamese officer has said.



_

_Vietnamese artillery soldiers in an exercise
_


Deputy chief of the VPA’s General Staff Sen. Lt. Gen. Vo Van Tuan made the remark during his reception for visiting Deputy Commander of the Cambodian Artillery High Command Lt. Gen. Lay Dara in Hanoi on September 20.

The officers reviewed Vietnam-Cambodia defence bonds, agreeing that defence ties have contributed to strengthening cooperation between the two countries.

Gen. Dara informed the host about previous cooperation between the Cambodian Artillery High Command and its Vietnamese counterpart.

The two sides focused on measures to promote information sharing and improve military training quality in their artilleries, he said.

_VNA_


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## TenLua

kecho said:


> Last update 17:31 | 21/09/2016
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnamese, Cambodian artillery forces boost ties
> *
> _The Vietnamese Ministry of Defence and the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) always support and facilitate cooperation between artillery forces of Vietnam and Cambodia, a senior Vietnamese officer has said.
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _Vietnamese artillery soldiers in an exercise
> _
> 
> 
> Deputy chief of the VPA’s General Staff Sen. Lt. Gen. Vo Van Tuan made the remark during his reception for visiting Deputy Commander of the Cambodian Artillery High Command Lt. Gen. Lay Dara in Hanoi on September 20.
> 
> The officers reviewed Vietnam-Cambodia defence bonds, agreeing that defence ties have contributed to strengthening cooperation between the two countries.
> 
> Gen. Dara informed the host about previous cooperation between the Cambodian Artillery High Command and its Vietnamese counterpart.
> 
> The two sides focused on measures to promote information sharing and improve military training quality in their artilleries, he said.
> 
> _VNA_



That is a bit odd considering Hun Sen stance on Vietnam at this moment.


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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> That is a bit odd considering Hun Sen stance on Vietnam at this moment.


Maybe he wants to "show" to Cambodian he wasn't Vietnamese's puppet, let's vote for him in 2018 election. Cambodian is depending on Chinese closer than any time from the 1990s. Hunsen tries to beggar his master's money to resolve their economic. However, many of their officers were educated in Vietnam consists their soldiers. His daughter even has assets in Metfone telecom ( Viet company). Cambodian politics is complicated now. Yesterday, Hunsen claimed he would kill opponents leader if they made massive parade against the government.


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## cochine

TenLua said:


> That is a bit odd considering Hun Sen stance on Vietnam at this moment.



Tactic for next general election, Hun sen would like to show off that, he is not puppet of Vietnam.

*Hun Sen responds to Vietnamese Facebook user on South China Sea*
_Thu, 25 August 2016_
_Lay Samean_
_
Accused of undermining a common ASEAN position on the South China Sea dispute by supporting China’s position, Prime Minister Hun Sen yesterday got personal with a critic of his policy on the contested waterway.

Writing on Facebook, the premier took issue with a comment by a Vietnamese user and delivered a direct response.

“If you or your country has issue with China, please solve it peacefully. Do not blame me and do not involve Cambodia to your own country’s internal issue,” the premier wrote.

In July, Cambodia blocked the inclusion of a reference to a recent decision by the Hague in an ASEAN joint statement.

The decision dismissed the majority of China’s claim to the waterway.

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/hun-sen-responds-vietnamese-facebook-user-south-china-sea_


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## TenLua

kecho said:


> Tactic for next general election, Hun sen would like to show off that, he is not puppet of Vietnam.
> 
> *Hun Sen responds to Vietnamese Facebook user on South China Sea*
> _Thu, 25 August 2016_
> _Lay Samean_
> _
> Accused of undermining a common ASEAN position on the South China Sea dispute by supporting China’s position, Prime Minister Hun Sen yesterday got personal with a critic of his policy on the contested waterway.
> 
> Writing on Facebook, the premier took issue with a comment by a Vietnamese user and delivered a direct response.
> 
> “If you or your country has issue with China, please solve it peacefully. Do not blame me and do not involve Cambodia to your own country’s internal issue,” the premier wrote.
> 
> In July, Cambodia blocked the inclusion of a reference to a recent decision by the Hague in an ASEAN joint statement.
> 
> The decision dismissed the majority of China’s claim to the waterway.
> 
> http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/hun-sen-responds-vietnamese-facebook-user-south-china-sea_



Like Duterte who got offered 33 million by Kerry but he turned it down, instead, he went with China. I wonder how much china offered him often. Hun Sen is no different.

Can't blame them, they're politicians. They're just doing what they're suppose to if you're familiar with Machiavelli.



xiao qi said:


> Maybe he wants to "show" to Cambodian he wasn't Vietnamese's puppet, let's vote for him in 2018 election. Cambodian is depending on Chinese closer than any time from the 1990s. Hunsen tries to beggar his master's money to resolve their economic. However, many of their officers were educated in Vietnam consists their soldiers. His daughter even has assets in Metfone telecom ( Viet company). Cambodian politics is complicated now. Yesterday, Hunsen claimed he would kill opponents leader if they made massive parade against the government.



Good. If Cambodia collude with China to undermine Vietnam's interest they're just asking for another genocide. Happened last time when Pol-Pot slept with China.

The next time Vietnam invade Cambodia should be the last time. Don't return the land. If Vietnnam does nothing, Cambodia will be in Chinese hands and by then every square inch of Vietnam will be within Chinese artillery range.


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## GS Zhou

TenLua said:


> The next time Vietnam invade Cambodia should be the last time. Don't return the land.



@Silent Knight care to share your opinion on this message? Thanks.


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## TenLua

GS Zhou said:


> @Silent Knight care to share your opinion on this message? Thanks.



What? You mean that isn't what any sane nation would do?


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## xiao qi

kecho said:


> Tactic for next general election, Hun sen would like to show off that, he is not puppet of Vietnam.
> 
> *Hun Sen responds to Vietnamese Facebook user on South China Sea*
> _Thu, 25 August 2016_
> _Lay Samean_
> _
> Accused of undermining a common ASEAN position on the South China Sea dispute by supporting China’s position, Prime Minister Hun Sen yesterday got personal with a critic of his policy on the contested waterway.
> 
> Writing on Facebook, the premier took issue with a comment by a Vietnamese user and delivered a direct response.
> 
> “If you or your country has issue with China, please solve it peacefully. Do not blame me and do not involve Cambodia to your own country’s internal issue,” the premier wrote.
> 
> In July, Cambodia blocked the inclusion of a reference to a recent decision by the Hague in an ASEAN joint statement.
> 
> The decision dismissed the majority of China’s claim to the waterway.
> 
> http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/hun-sen-responds-vietnamese-facebook-user-south-china-sea_


I burst of the laughing when i saw a leader of a country quarrels and complains on Facebook.


TenLua said:


> Like Duterte who got offered 33 million by Kerry but he turned it down, instead, he went with China. I wonder how much china offered him often. Hun Sen is no different.
> 
> Can't blame them, they're politicians. They're just doing what they're suppose to if you're familiar with Machiavelli.
> 
> 
> 
> Good. If Cambodia collude with China to undermine Vietnam's interest they're just asking for another genocide. Happened last time when Pol-Pot slept with China.
> 
> The next time Vietnam invade Cambodia should be the last time. Don't return the land. If Vietnnam does nothing, Cambodia will be in Chinese hands and by then every square inch of Vietnam will be within Chinese artillery range.


Vietnam will not, maybe relate to Vietnamese - Cambodian in the future but we haven't the suitable reason to attack them. Cambodian now is smarter than their past time in Polpot regime, at least they don't think they can win if they have a war with Vietnam. Young Cambodian doesn't dare to call a war. They understand and know exactly they are doing and the side they stand. We also don't want. so difficult to say a war with the neighbors like Cambodia. Cambodia maybe is a Chinese's pawn to intervene Vietnam. But they scare Vietnam than so much compared to Vietnam toward China. Thailand also is a rival of Cambodia.

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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> I burst of the laughing when i saw a leader of a country quarrels and complains on Facebook.
> 
> Vietnam will not, maybe relate to Vietnamese - Cambodian in the future but we haven't the suitable reason to attack them. Cambodian now is smarter than their past time in Polpot regime, at least they don't think they can win if they have a war with Vietnam. Young Cambodian doesn't dare to call a war. They understand and know exactly they are doing and the side they stand. We also don't want. so difficult to say a war with the neighbors like Cambodia. Cambodia maybe is a Chinese's pawn to intervene Vietnam. But they scare Vietnam than so much compared to Vietnam toward China. Thailand also is a rival of Cambodia.



Such a waste. There are so many genius level kids in Cambodia, and they're not given an opportunity to cultivate their talents. They have incompetent leaders and it is costing their them.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> What? You mean that isn't what any sane nation would do?


The Chinese have a non intervention policy, so they would not lift a finger if Cambodia or others such as the Philippines right now slip into chaos, killing each other until the last man and woman. Chinese don't mind either if China friendly countries such as Thailand invades Cambodia. But beware if we intervened, the Chinese would use it as a perfect excuse to launch onslaught on Vietnam. No, never again. Let them kill themselves. The world is overpopulated.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> The Chinese have a non intervention policy, so they would not lift a finger if Cambodia or others such as the Philippines right now slip into chaos, killing each other until the last man and woman. Chinese don't mind either if China friendly countries such as Thailand invades Cambodia. But beware if we intervened, the Chinese would use it as a perfect excuse to launch onslaught on Vietnam. No, never again. Let them kill themselves. The world is overpopulated.



Not populate enough. We need more to colonize Mars. The solar system, and then the stars.

China will not engage Vietnam in a land war.


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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> Such a waste. There are so* many genius level kids in Cambodia*, and they're not given an opportunity to cultivate their talents. They have incompetent leaders and it is costing their them.


I don't think so, the kids from some nations in Asia like Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Viet.. is smarter than, it is my personal opinion. let's see their highest exams for the 12th grade. They had only 400 students got A score. the small number compared to 90000 students who attended. I suppose their test isn't difficult than Vietnamese's exam or Chinese gao kao. https://www.cambodiadaily.com/second2/top-students-earn-praise-prizes-peace-palace-exams-118309/



Viet said:


> The Chinese have a non intervention policy, so they would not lift a finger if Cambodia or others such as the Philippines right now slip into chaos, killing each other until the last man and woman. Chinese don't mind either if China friendly countries such as Thailand invades Cambodia. But beware if we intervened, the Chinese would use it as a perfect excuse to launch onslaught on Vietnam. No, never again. Let them kill themselves. The world is overpopulated.


Right, Don't forget Indo 1997 incident, the Chinese government didn't do anything to help their compatriots.

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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> I don't think so, the kids from some nations in Asia like Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Viet.. is smarter than, it is my personal opinion. let's see their highest exams for the 12th grade. They had only 400 students got A score. the small number compared to 90000 students who attended. I suppose their test isn't difficult than Vietnamese's exam or Chinese gao kao. https://www.cambodiadaily.com/second2/top-students-earn-praise-prizes-peace-palace-exams-118309/



I'd like to see those same kids take a culture fair IQ test.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> I'd like to see those same kids take a culture fair IQ test.


Don't expect too much. The Khmer have no more writing records of their history and culture. all were burnt or destroyed in the years of madness. The only thing that remains is inscriptions on temples.



xiao qi said:


> I don't think so, the kids from some nations in Asia like Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Viet.. is smarter than, it is my personal opinion. let's see their highest exams for the 12th grade. They had only 400 students got A score. the small number compared to 90000 students who attended. I suppose their test isn't difficult than Vietnamese's exam or Chinese gao kao. https://www.cambodiadaily.com/second2/top-students-earn-praise-prizes-peace-palace-exams-118309/
> 
> 
> Right, Don't forget Indo 1997 incident, the Chinese government didn't do anything to help their compatriots.


Whatever. Whereever. We should never intervene again. Never.

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## Carlosa

Larsen & Toubro (L$T) has signed the principle contract with Vietnam Border Guard valued at $99.7 million for design and construction of high speed patrol vessels in India as well as for transfer of design and technology along with supply of equipment and material kits for construction of follow-on vessels at a Vietnam shipyard.

The high-speed patrol vessels are purpose-built for controlling and protecting sea security and sovereignty, detecting illegal activities such as smuggling, and undertaking search and rescue missions. Constructed of Aluminium alloy, the vessels are about 35 metres long and can clock a speed of 35 knots with state-of-the-art navigation and surveillance equipment and self-defence capabilities on board.

Larsen & Toubro is a technology, engineering, construction and manufacturing company. It is one of the largest and most respected companies in India's private sector.

http://money.livemint.com/news/comp...million-from-vietnam-border-guard-491864.aspx

Larsen & Toubro (LET), one of India’s leading engineering and construction company said it has signed a$99.7 million project with Vietnam Border Guard to design and construct high speed patrol vessels in India.

The contract also envisages transfer of design and technology along with supply of equipment and material kits for construction of follow-on vessels at a Vietnam shipyard.

L&T won the tender which was floated back in 2015 by Vietnam’s Ministry of Defence.

Constructed of Aluminium alloy the vessels are about 35 metres long and can clock a speed of 35 knots with a state-of-the-art navigation and surveillance equipment and self-defence Capabilities on board, the company added.

Earlier in 2015, a tender was floated by Vietnam’s Ministry of Defence for the Patrol Boats and six shipyards (L&T, MDL, GRSE, erstwhile Pipavav, ABG and PEC) from India participated in the bid. The MoD-Vietnam shortlisted three shipyards and undertook an extensive assessment of their design and engineering capabilities, yard infrastructure, track record and financial health. L&T qualified on all the parameters and was selected from among the six for the prestigious export contract.

L&T is presently executing Indian MoD contracts for design and construction of 54 Interceptor Boats (IBs) for Indian Coast Guard, out of which 28 IBs have already been delivered with the last boat having been delivered two years ahead of schedule. L&T is also executing orders for design and construction of seven Offshore Patrol Vessels for the Indian Coast Guard against a contract of Rs.1432 Crores and a Floating Dock for the Indian Navy with a contract value of Rs.468 Crores.

Larsen & Toubro is an Indian multinational engaged in technology, engineering, construction, manufacturing and financial services with USD 1.6 billion in revenue.

The move has come in the wake of heightened defence cooperation between Vietnam and India.

http://rtn.asia/r-r/23045/lt-wins-99-7-million-vietnam-defence-project

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/l-t-bags...om-vietnam-border-guard.450792/#ixzz4L0Kq4sVW

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Don't expect too much. The Khmer have no more writing records of their history and culture. all were burnt or destroyed in the years of madness. The only thing that remains is inscriptions on temples.
> 
> 
> Whatever. Whereever. We should never intervene again. Never.



Vietnam should intervene in Cambodia and Laos.


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> @Silent Knight care to share your opinion on this message? Thanks.


Well, we won't intervene in case of another public unrest and/or civil war in Cambodia. A 50km buffer zone is good enough. World's changing, it's not 1979 anymore.

Overthrowing the Pol Pot regime and staying there for 10 years were necessary to assure the Pol Pot remnants would not rise again. It was a retaliate war after many atrocities committed against Vietnamese population, not an unprovoked invasion as many believed.

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## Viet

news of the day: the truck company Kamaz (Russia) is expected to deliver 1,000 KAMAZ-43253 4x2 trucks to Vietnam this year. After it delivered 700 trucks in 2015.








what will the army do with 1,700 Kamaz trucks?





























as the truck has a payload of 7.5 tons, one thing I have in mind why not mounting a 152mm howitzer


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> news of the day: the truck company Kamaz (Russia) is expected to deliver 1,000 KAMAZ-43253 4x2 trucks to Vietnam this year. After it delivered 700 trucks in 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what will the army do with 1,700 Kamaz trucks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> as the truck has a payload of 7.5 tons, one thing I have in mind why not mounting a 152mm howitzer


4*2 truck as howitzer chassis? you expect the howitzer to be operated on paved roads only, so zero requirements on offroad performance?


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> 4*2 truck as howitzer chassis? you expect the howitzer to be operated on paved roads only, so zero requirements on offroad performance?


152mm guns are too much, but smaller ones like the M1A1 105mm are possible.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> 4*2 truck as howitzer chassis? you expect the howitzer to be operated on paved roads only, so zero requirements on offroad performance?


why off-road performance is necessary? nice to have, but not decisive factor.

Nexter 155mm howitzer on a 6x6 truck.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> why off-road performance is necessary? nice to have, but not decisive factor.


When I said off-road, I don't mean the capability to climb a very steep slope, or pass through deep water, I won't have that much expectation on a truck with simple chassis design.

What I mean is just the basic off-road performance, e.g. when only one wheel has traction and the remaining three all lost the traction (a very common situation when passing through bad roads that full of holes, or muds after a heavy rain), the vehicle should be able to pass by its own. 

Check the following two videos, two Chinese SUVs, one pass the basic off-road test that I described, the other failed.
Success in the off road test:
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTI3MDQwNTkxMg==.html

Fail in the off road test:
http://www.autohome.com.cn/3788/0/27/Section.html?pvareaid=101505#maodian

The two vehicles shown are just for family purpose, therefore a success or failure on the off-road test doesn't matter that much. But for a military vehicle like the howitzer truck, the basic offroad performance is obviously a must-have.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> When I said off-road, I don't mean the capability to climb a very steep slope, or pass through deep water, I won't have that much expectation on a truck with simple chassis design.
> 
> What I mean is just the basic off-road performance, e.g. when only one wheel has traction and the remaining three all lost the traction (a very common situation when passing through bad roads that full of holes, or muds after a heavy rain), the vehicle should be able to pass by its own.
> 
> Check the following two videos, two Chinese SUVs, one pass the basic off-road test that I described, the other failed.
> Success in the off road test:
> http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTI3MDQwNTkxMg==.html
> 
> Fail in the off road test:
> http://www.autohome.com.cn/3788/0/27/Section.html?pvareaid=101505#maodian
> 
> The two vehicles shown are just for family purpose, therefore a success or failure on the off-road test doesn't matter that much. But for a military vehicle like the howitzer truck, the basic offroad performance is obviously a must-have.


Bro, Kamaz is a truck, isn't it? And as such I expect it to possess basic off road capability. Though I don't expect the truck comes out from a wet rice field should it fall into it


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> news of the day: the truck company Kamaz (Russia) is expected to deliver 1,000 KAMAZ-43253 4x2 trucks to Vietnam this year. After it delivered 700 trucks in 2015.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what will the army do with 1,700 Kamaz trucks?
> 
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> 
> as the truck has a payload of 7.5 tons, one thing I have in mind why not mounting a 152mm howitzer



I think the recoil would shake that truck frame apart.


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> When I said off-road, I don't mean the capability to climb a very steep slope, or pass through deep water, I won't have that much expectation on a truck with simple chassis design.
> 
> What I mean is just the basic off-road performance, e.g. when only one wheel has traction and the remaining three all lost the traction (a very common situation when passing through bad roads that full of holes, or muds after a heavy rain), the vehicle should be able to pass by its own.


I wouldn't use the "In soviet Russia" joke, but Kamaz makes some durable truck chassis these days. And do remember that we buy 6x6 chassis, not the 4x2.






There was a video showing a Kamaz or Gaz truck carry an overweight and oversized wood cargo across a raging river. But I couldn't find it.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Bro, Kamaz is a truck, isn't it? And as such I expect it to possess basic off road capability. Though I don't expect the truck comes out from a wet rice field should it fall into it


The core issue is this is a 4x2 trucks.

Off-road performance is not decided by whether it is a sedan, SUV, or truck, but decided by the chassis design. Only a properly-designed AWD chassis (All-wheeled Drive, 4x4, 6x6, or 8x8) can pass the off-road performance I showed you. No 4x2 truck can do. Even if we equip the Kamaz truck with a superb MAN engine and ZF transmission, it still cannot pass. It needs to respect the basic principal of mechanical engineering. 

For the 4x2 vehicle, the only way is to put some sand, or small stones, or hard muds under the wheels to make the traction force restored. But that's a suicide in war time. The enemies will not give your artillery that much time.


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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> I wouldn't use the "In soviet Russia" joke, but Kamaz makes some durable truck chassis these days. And do remember that we buy 6x6 chassis, not the 4x2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a video showing a Kamaz or Gaz truck carry an overweight and oversized wood cargo across a raging river. But I couldn't find it.



Thanks for the note. I don't know what you bought is 6x6 trucks. The news I read from Viet said 4x2, that's why I raise the questions about its off-road performances.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> The core issue is this is a 4x2 trucks.
> 
> Off-road performance is not decided by whether it is a sedan, SUV, or truck, but decided by the chassis design. Only a properly-designed AWD chassis (All-wheeled Drive, 4x4, 6x6, or 8x8) can pass the off-road performance I showed you. No 4x2 truck can do. Even if we equip the Kamaz truck with a superb MAN engine and ZF transmission, it still cannot pass. It needs to respect the basic principal of mechanical engineering.
> 
> For the 4x2 vehicle, the only way is to put some sand, or small stones, or hard muds under the wheels to make the traction force restored. But that's a suicide in war time. The enemies will not give your artillery that much time


Maybe you are right. The 4x2 kamaz is not suitable for howitzer and we need another type, 6x6 truck for example like Nexter. Anyway we buy different types of kamaz trucks, like that function as mobile antenna stations. See picture. Plus as a part of the deal with the Russians we will start to set up factories assembling kamaz trucks with 25 percent localization rate. The local made components will gradually increase over the period.


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## Carlosa

*Filipino president to discuss maritime disputes on Vietnam visit*
By VnExpress September 23, 2016 | 03:14 pm GMT+7




Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte speaks during a news conference in August, 2016. Photo by Reuters

*The South China Sea dispute is likely to be the focal point during Duterte's visit later this month. *
Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte will visit Vietnam next week and take part in discussions with local leaders on maritime disputes.

Communications Secretary Martin Andanar said that maritime disputes over the South China Sea (known in Vietnam as the East Sea) will be discussed during the visit, which is scheduled for September 28-29. The visit comes in response to an invitation made by Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc during the recent ASEAN summit in Vientiane, Laos.

Vietnam hailed the ruling of an international tribune in The Hague in July that decreed Beijing has no legal basis to claim historic rights to resources in the East Sea. The ruling came after the Philippines filed a case in January 2013 accusing Beijing of violating the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

The three all claim the Spratly Islands, besides Brunei and Malaysia.

Sources from the Filipino government said the president also plans to visit Japan in late October and Beijing by the end of the year.

Duterte assumed office last June and has caused controversy with blunt comments about other countries’ leaders. Most recently, an insult directed at U.S. President Barack Obama prompted the latter to cancel a scheduled bilateral meeting.

He has also received criticism at home for a ruthless drug war that has killed nearly 2,000 people.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> I wouldn't use the "In soviet Russia" joke, but Kamaz makes some durable truck chassis these days. And do remember that we buy 6x6 chassis, not the 4x2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was a video showing a Kamaz or Gaz truck carry an overweight and oversized wood cargo across a raging river. But I couldn't find it.


6x6?

Most viet media say 4x2. Maybe a mix of different types?

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## Thao Nguyen

GS Zhou said:


> Thanks for the note. I don't know what you bought is 6x6 trucks. The news I read from Viet said 4x2, that's why I raise the questions about its off-road performances.


I think both 4x4 and 6x6, and other types also


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> 6x6?
> 
> Most viet media say 4x2. Maybe a mix of different types?





GS Zhou said:


> Thanks for the note. I don't know what you bought is 6x6 trucks. The news I read from Viet said 4x2, that's why I raise the questions about its off-road performances.


Several types were purchased, not just 4x2. So the 6x6 can be used for self-propelled artillery and air defense systems, while the 4x4 and 4x2 take care of normal transport loads.

You can also see the 105mm howitzer on a 4x4 chassis. It was successfully tested on the field and ready for mass conversion.

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## Viet

On patrol


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## Silent Knight

Su-30MK2V carrying a Kh-31PD anti-radiation missile.

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## Viet

45th Artillery Brigade


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## Viet

Military School
101th Regiment


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## Viet

Artillery repair & maintenance facility Z133


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## fadine



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## Viet

wonderful!

sending a great welcome to the Marines


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## Carlosa

*U.S. Marines look to train with Vietnamese as partnerships in the Pacific expand*
*https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/ar...tnamese-as-partnerships-in-the-pacific-expand
*
As a sign of how much the Asia-Pacific region has changed in recent years, U.S. Marines could soon begin training alongside Vietnamese military personnel. 

“Growing up as a kid, watching the Vietnam War on TV every night, it was almost unimaginable that later on in my life I would be representing the United States at meetings in Vietnam and looking for opportunities to train with Vietnamese armed forces,” Lt. Gen. Lawrence Nicholson, commander of III Marine Expeditionary Force, told Marine Corps Times. 

“Vietnam and Malaysia, they have small patrol craft,” he said. “They have a naval infantry that they would like us to come take a look at and look for opportunities to do some training.” 

Training with the Vietnamese would be an “amazing opportunity” for Marines, Nicholson said, and it represents a dramatic shift in relations between the two countries since the Vietnam War. The three-star general who oversees all forward-deployed Marines in the Pacific Rim expects to travel to Vietnam in October to talk about what types of training events are possible, he said.

“I’m very excited to get in there and explore what it is that they’re looking for and how we can do more together,” Nicholson said. “I was just at a conference in San Diego -- the Pacific Amphibious Leaders Seminar -- [where] the Vietnamese showed up. The Vietnamese army and navy folks were there. Got a chance to meet a few of them and certainly they expressed their willingness to looking forward to doing more and doing some work together.” 

Vietnam is not the only country eager to train with Marines in the Pacific. South Korea, Thailand and Indonesia all want to do more with Marines and sailors aboard amphibious assault ships, Nicholson said. Japan has also asked for help turning its Western Army on Kyushu into an amphibious force. 

“I had not anticipated being this busy or being this popular,” Nicholson said. 

In contrast to years past, Marines who rotate through Okinawa, Japan, through the unit deployment program do not stay on the island during their six month rotations, Nicholson said. 

“Today, I think, we’re in 22 different countries,” he said. “There was an example of 2nd Battalion, 2nd Marines out of Lejeune: They were in six countries in six months. They barely spent any time in Okinawa.” 

In the coming year, Marines will take part in more than 100 exercises and exchanges with countries throughout the Indo-Asia-Pacific region, said Lt. Gen. John Toolan, former commander of Marine Corps Forces, Pacific. Some of the larger exercises include Cobra Gold in Thailand; Balikatan in the Philippines; Ssang Yong in South Korea; Talisman Saber in Australia; Khaan Quest in Mongolia; and "many more,” Toolan said. 

“During Landing Force Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT), we plan to work with Singapore, Cambodia and Vietnam in the upcoming year,” he added. 

Toolan is retiring after 40 years in the Marine Corps. On Aug. 26, he handed command of MARFORPAC to Lt. Gen. David Berger. 

*More Marines on more decks * 

One of the best ways to move about the vast Asia-Pacific region is by ship. Marine Corps officials have said that the combatant commanders need 50 amphibious assault ships, but the Gator Navy currently stands at 29 ships. 

That’s why the Marines have been using other types of ships for exercises with other countries, Toolan said. 

During Koa Moana, a six-month theater security exercise that ends in November, Marines have embarked on maritime prepositioning ships Pililaau and Sacagawea, both Military Sealift Command cargo ships, for training missions in Australia, New Guinea and Peru. 

“The additional lift capacity gained through the use of these alternatives to amphibious ships allows us to be more places and engage in locations that are important but difficult to reach,” Toolan said. 

A three-ship amphibious ready group with an embarked Marine Expeditionary Unit is expected to head to Australia in late 2018. Officials have not identified the ships, but then-Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Greenert told Navy Times last year that the amphibious assault ship America is a “prime candidate” to visit Australia on such a deployment.

Toolan said there are no plans to significantly increase the number of Marines in the Philippines. The two countries work together on the full spectrum of operations, including responding to natural disasters, theater security cooperation and preparing to defend the Philippines, Nicholson said. 

“I was just there a couple weeks ago inspecting a suite of gear,” Nicholson said. “We’ve got about 80 vehicles that are there, principally for humanitarian and disaster relief operations. But every time we do a large scale exercise, we try to pull that gear out, make sure it’s fresh; make sure it’s ready to go.” 

Nicholson stressed that the team of roughly 80 Marine planners in the Philippines and other Marines who come to the country for exercises are not permanently assigned there. In mid-September, the president of the Philippines has said he will not allow Filipino forces to conduct joint patrols in the South China Sea with U.S. or other foreign militaries. He has also suggested expelling U.S. special operations from the Mindanao region. 

Relations are much warmer with Australia, where a full Marine Air-Ground Task Force of 2,500 Marines is expected to rotate through starting in 2020. 

“I think there are some negotiations yet to be had but we don’t see any show stoppers," Nicholson said. "We see this thing moving to fruition.” 

Initially, all 2,500 Marines were expected to arrive in Australia this year, but the current Marine Rotational Force-Darwin is 1,250 Marines. 

"We continue to work with our Australian counterparts on the best way forward with our rotational deployments to Darwin to include the size of the force and its composition," Toolan said. We take many things into consideration for each rotation including, but not limited to: cost, billeting space, unit and airframe availability, logistical support requirements, community impact, training area availability, etc." 

Meanwhile, the Navy Department is continuing with efforts to move 5,000 Marines and 1,300 dependents from Okinawa to Guam from 2021 to 2023. 

“Before we can move Marines from Okinawa to Guam, an entirely new base must be constructed on undeveloped land, and spaces on existing military installations must be enhanced,” Toolan said. “New unit operational facilities, training ranges, barracks, roads, utilities, and quality-of-life enhancements must be built over an approximately ten-year construction timeline.”

Other major issues that need to be resolved include clearing unexploded ordnance from World War II on Guam, protecting endangered species and the logistics of supporting $1 billion in simultaneous construction projects, Toolan said. 

_Jeff Schogol covers Marine Corps leadership, gender integration, aviation, and Pacific-based Marines for Marine Corps Times. He can be reached at jschogol@marinecorpstimes.com._

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## Viet

Back to the past. Visiting PM Phuc visits Nanning Yucai School in Guangxi. The military school was founded by Ho Chi Minh and Mao Zedong in 1951. Maybe an omen.
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## Viet

Maybe a glimpse of Vietnam future satelitte network. According to the director of Vietnam national space agency, Japan will develop a 550kg light satellite radar version especially for Vietnam. That is first time ever Japan will develop such satellite radar for a foreign country.

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## Viet

One of the mainstays of Vietnam air defence: Pechora-2TM ground to air missile. Range 35km, capable destroying advanced, small-size aerial attack platforms flying at low altitudes. can also be deployed against ground and water-surface targets that are visible to radar. The missile acquisition radar can detect targets at 100km distance.








The missile complex will be complemented by short range missile system T38 STILET and radar TRS-2D, with the assistance by Tetraedr company (Belarus)

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## Silent Knight

Good thing that Tetraedr transferred all technologies in the S-125-2TM project, meaning Vietnam can locally upgrade the remaining S-125M systems to 2TM standard.

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## Viet

Yes we need a good air defense against unwanted guests. Though I believe the army doesn't possess missiles on tank chassis. Good idea actually as it will increase mobility.







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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Maybe a glimpse of Vietnam future satelitte network. According to the director of Vietnam national space agency, Japan will develop a 550kg light satellite radar version especially for Vietnam. That is first time ever Japan will develop such satellite radar for a foreign country.



We would like to launch this for you hehe. Light sats are our speciality

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> We would like to launch this for you hehe. Light sats are our speciality


You are welcome my friend together mastering the space 

2,500 ton patrol ship for the Coast Guard. 5 more are coming

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## patu

Carlosa said:


> *Filipino president to discuss maritime disputes on Vietnam visit*
> By VnExpress September 23, 2016 | 03:14 pm GMT+7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte speaks during a news conference in August, 2016. Photo by Reuters
> 
> *The South China Sea dispute is likely to be the focal point during Duterte's visit later this month. *
> Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte will visit Vietnam next week and take part in discussions with local leaders on maritime disputes.
> 
> Communications Secretary Martin Andanar said that maritime disputes over the South China Sea (known in Vietnam as the East Sea) will be discussed during the visit, which is scheduled for September 28-29. The visit comes in response to an invitation made by Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc during the recent ASEAN summit in Vientiane, Laos.
> 
> Vietnam hailed the ruling of an international tribune in The Hague in July that decreed Beijing has no legal basis to claim historic rights to resources in the East Sea. The ruling came after the Philippines filed a case in January 2013 accusing Beijing of violating the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
> 
> The three all claim the Spratly Islands, besides Brunei and Malaysia.
> 
> Sources from the Filipino government said the president also plans to visit Japan in late October and Beijing by the end of the year.
> 
> Duterte assumed office last June and has caused controversy with blunt comments about other countries’ leaders. Most recently, an insult directed at U.S. President Barack Obama prompted the latter to cancel a scheduled bilateral meeting.
> 
> He has also received criticism at home for a ruthless drug war that has killed nearly 2,000 people.


I am glad to see that both Your two goverment could work hand in hand to resolve the Scs problem and then creating more peaces and harmony world.
I am very happy to see that someday in future our children will hail the day of peaces treaty in these area.

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## Silent Knight

The opening ceremony for foreign cadets in Vietnam Military Science Academy.

During the 2016-2017 semester, we'll train dozens of foreign officers from 14 different countries.

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## Carlosa

*Russia and China: Colluding on a South China Sea Policy?*
Carlyle A. Thayer
September 27, 2016




http://www.realcleardefense.com/art...uding_on_a_south_china_sea_policy_110129.html

At the G20 Hangzhou summit earlier this month, China made clear that Russian president Vladimir Putin was a top guest. Both China and Russia claim that their bilateral relations are the ‘best ever’ and demonstrate an ‘unprecedentedly high level of trust’. Putin described the relationships as a ‘comprehensive partnership and strategic collaboration’.

The China–Russia relationship is based on a mutual wish to push back against the United States, for its expansion of NATO in Europe and its rebalance in the Asia–Pacific. Sanctions imposed on Russia by the US and Europe have hurt the Russian economy, and Russia needs markets for its energy exports, especially gas. China has signed a major deal to import Russian gas and it is a large market for Russian manufactured weapons and technology.

However, Russian and Chinese interests always aren’t congruent. Russia is suspicious of Xi Jinping’s ‘One Belt, One Road’, which aims to expand into Central Asia. Moscow also faces the difficult challenge of improving relations with China while at the same time not undermining its traditional ties with India and Vietnam, which both feel pressure from Beijing.

That tension is manifested in Russian positions on the South China Sea. The first is that it takes no side in disputes and supports freedom of navigation, including overflight and the peaceful settlement of disputes directly between the parties concerned on the basis of international law. But Russia concurrently opposes the involvement by third parties outside the region because their involvement, according to Putin, ‘will only hurt the resolution of these issues… [and] is detrimental and counterproductive’.

Putin supported China’s position on the recent Arbitral Tribunal ruling on the grounds that it was conducted without China being present or China’s views being considered. Putin argued that it was a legal rather than a political matter. In fact, he is ill- informed about (or is choosing to ignore) the procedures established under Annex VII of UNCLOS, Article 9 of which makes clear that the ‘absence of a party or failure of a party to defend its case shall not constitute a bar to the proceedings’.

The conclusion to be drawn is that Putin’s definitely trying to curry favour with China, even at a cost to its long-standing friends in the region. Russia and Vietnam are in agreement that territorial disputes in the South China Sea should be resolved peacefully by the parties concerned. But Russia hasn’t respected Vietnam’s position that when the interests of third parties in the region are involved, those third parties must be included in discussions. Vietnam takes note of the interests of third parties outside the region, especially relating to freedom of navigation and overflight.

China’s excessive claims in the South China Sea and its artificial islands are aimed a dominating the South China and ultimately restricting the movement of US (and other) naval ships. In other words, China’s actions in both those respects threaten freedom of navigation and overflight by regional and external powers. So Russia is being duplicitous, because in practice the interests of third parties outside the region are the freedom of navigation and overflight threatened by China. Putin supports freedom of navigation for the Russian Navy but is unconcerned if China makes it difficult for the US Navy.

Despite their new found closeness, both Russia and China have been careful not to use the word alliance to describe their political and military relations. Formal alliances are usually directed at a third party and involve a commitment by the signatories to meet and take joint action in certain circumstances, such as an armed attack on one of the parties. Clearly a China-Russia alliance would be aimed at the US and its allies and would in effect bring about a new Cold War.

And it’d likely be counterproductive. A Russia–China alliance would result in a reinvigoration of the US alliance system in both Europe and in the Asia–Pacific. Individual members of ASEAN would come under great pressure to take sides to bolster their security. Finally, such a hypothetical alliance would likely provoke a global arms race, heighten tensions and raise the risk of conflict in the East and South China seas, where three major powers have material interests.

China and Russia will continue to work together when it suits them, coordinating actions and cooperating on security and strategic matters that affect them, most notably against US ballistic missile defence in Europe and THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Air Defence) in South Korea. But they’ll cooperate with the United States as well if it suits them. Russia and the US are working together to resolve the conflict in Syria (however difficult that may turn out to be), while China and the US cooperate on a wide variety of international issues, from climate change to non-proliferation by North Korea. What we’re seeing can therefore be more accurately described as a transient confluence of limited interests, rather than a deep strategic commitment between Russia and China.

*Carlyle A. Thayer* is an emeritus professor, University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy in Canberra.

_This article originally appeared at The Strategist (ASPI)._

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## Viet

Amphibious assault


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## Viet

Not really a Vietnam military news

Since March 2016, Chief of Staff of US central command or CENTCOM, US army *Brigadier General Viet Luong*. In his position he doesn't act as the commanding General of Centcom, that is *Lt. Gen. Michael X. Garrett, *rather a military adviser to US president and US defense secretary.

Not too bad for a man, that fled with his parents to the United States, one day before South Vietnam collapsed.













what is the scope of US central command?

The US military divides the world in theaters of operation, with the central theater or command encompassing 20 countries in Asia and Middle East.







So the US military campaign against IS in Iraq and Syria fall under the command of Centcom.






_U.S. Air Force F-15 Strike Eagles conducting combat operations in Iraq against ISIS targets. (CENTCOM)_







_ARABIAN GULF (Nov. 6, 2014) USS Ponce (AFSB(I) 15), left, comes alongside Military Sealift Command fast combat support ship USNS Rainier
(T-AOE 7) and cargo ship USNS Charles Drew (T-AKE 10) during an underway replenishment. (CENTCOM)_

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## Viet

*Stronger alliance with Vietnam seen *
Duterte trip to boost economic, defense relations with Hanoi

by Genalyn Kabiling
September 28, 2016

Hanoi – Economic and defense relations between the Philippines and Vietnam are expected to be enhanced when President Duterte makes a two-day official visit to Vietnam this week.

The President, with several Cabinet members in tow, is scheduled to arrive in Hanoi Wednesday night for a visit that coincides with the 40th anniversary of Philippines-Vietnam relations this year.

Duterte’s first official activity on Wednesday is a meeting with the Filipino community at the Intercontinental hotel here, based on his schedule. The Philippine leader is expected to discuss his government’s campaign against illegal drugs, crime and corruption when he addresses Filipinos working in this Asian neighbor for the first time.




FROM LAB TO REHAB – President Rodrigo R. Duterte is surrounded by his security escorts from the President Security Group (PSG) as he goes on an inspection of the mega shabu laboratory that was discovered and seized by authorities last week in Arayat, Pampanga. The President said the laboratory will be turned into a rehabilitation facility for drug dependents.
(Camille Ante/Manila Bulletin)


On Thursday, the President will have a packed schedule that includes a flurry of meetings with government as well as communist leaders of Vietnam.

His day starts with wreath-laying ceremonies at the Monument of Heroes and Martyrs and the Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum.

The President will then travel to the State Palace for a meeting with Vietnam President Tran Dai Quang to discuss various areas of bilateral exchanges, including maritime cooperation, enhancement of law enforcement and defense cooperation.

It will also be an opportunity for the President to solidify the strategic partnership between the two countries, according to Charles Jose, Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) spokesman.

Jose had earlier said the leaders are also expected to tackle increasing two-way trade and investments, strengthening of joint cultural activities, as well heightened exchanges in agriculture and fisheries.

“The leaders are also expected to exchange views on regional and international issues. The relations between the two countries have been growing and deepening steadily since formal ties were established on July 12, 1976,” Jose said.

The President is also expected to highlight the importance of keeping peace, stability, and security in the region in the wake of the unresolved territorial dispute in the South China Sea in his meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart.

“And it will be in the context of reaffirming our firm commitment to the peaceful settlement of disputes and our adherence to the rule of law,” Jose added.

The Philippines and Vietnam are among the Asian countries with competing claims in the vast South China Sea.

While in Vietnam, the President will also pay a courtesy call on Vietnam Prime Minister Nguyen XuanPhuc at the Prime Minister’s office.

Another meeting with Nguyen PhuTrong, general secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam, has also been arranged at the state hall.

The President will also be accorded with a state banquet by the Vietnam government before he departs for Manila.

Duterte is expected to return to Davao early Friday morning.


Read more at http://www.mb.com.ph/stronger-alliance-with-vietnam-seen/#674YH2lYD65UV4YU.99

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## Aqsuperman

Type 63 rifle in the hand of Militia. Generous capacity compare to SKS yet weight slightly less. Good for long range yet saw little service and quickly withdraw after the AK has reached a sufficient number.

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## Viet

September 29, Hanoi
Greeting the president of the Philippines Rodrigo Duterte

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## Viet

*US, Vietnam navies work on preventing South China Sea incidents*
By ERIK SLAVIN | STARS AND STRIPES Published: September 27, 2016





_The USS John McCain steams alongside a replenishment oiler during Valiant Shield drills, Sept. 16, 2016. The Yokosuka-based destroyer will participate in a Naval Engagement Activity with Vietnam, along with sailors from Destroyer Squadron 7 and the Singapore-headquartered Commander Task Force 73.

Nathan Burke/U.S. Navy photo_


The Vietnamese and U.S. navies kicked off an expanded exchange Wednesday that will include a focus on preventing unplanned hostilities among ships in contested Asia-Pacific waters.

The Naval Engagement Activity, centered in Da Nang, is a non-combat program, which largely separates it from the named exercises the Navy participates in with several other Southeast Asian nations.

The limitations come by design, as Vietnam balances its warming relations with the United States and its complicated relationship with China.

The engagement has grown considerably since the USS George Washington hosted Vietnamese officials on the 15th anniversary of diplomatic relations between Washington and Hanoi in 2010.

The Yokosuka-based destroyer USS John S. McCain will participate, along with sailors from Destroyer Squadron 7 and the Singapore-headquartered Commander Task Force 73.

“We’ve expanded the sea phase this year to incorporate a more complex CUES event and search-and-rescue scenario,” Capt. H. B. Le, commodore of Destroyer Squadron 7, said in a statement Wednesday, referring to the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea.

The non-binding communications code was signed by 21 nations at a 2014 multinational symposium in China.

The agreement came after years of low-level tensions between U.S. and Chinese naval ships in the South China Sea. China holds an ambiguous claim to about 90 percent of the sea and dismissed an international tribunal ruling that largely invalidated that claim earlier this year.

China’s claim conflicts with the U.S. position of freedom of navigation in the international waters of the South China Sea, where about $1.2 trillion in U.S. trade transits annually.

Navy officials have told Stars and Stripes that the code, meant to reduce the possibility of a chance encounter growing into conflict, has aided relations with the Chinese navy.

Vietnam also has a vested interest in the code’s success — China’s ships are, on balance, bigger and better armed. However, China’s coast guard vessels and its fishing vessels, which critics have labeled a shadow militia, don’t follow CUES.

Vietnam has accused such Chinese vessels of repeatedly ramming and turning water cannons on Vietnamese fishing boats near the Paracel and Spratly island groups, which both countries claim.

Officials in Washington and in the Navy have called on China to adopt CUES for its coast guard and fishing vessels as well, to reduce the chances of further incidents.

Some in Congress, notably Sen. John McCain, want the U.S. and Vietnam to upgrade their naval relationship beyond the current engagement. A Navy official said Wednesday that how joint training is characterized and composed is led by the Vietnamese.

The Hanoi government must factor its neighbor’s military strength and economic influence into any actions it takes in the South China Sea.

“China represents the most prominent threat to Vietnamese sovereignty and territorial integrity,” Nicholas Chapman, a Vietnam researcher at the International University of Japan, wrote earlier this month for The Diplomat website. “Nevertheless, Vietnam is clearly taking China’s militarization in the South China Sea seriously and is taking bold steps.”

Chapman pointed to Vietnam’s recent installation of *EXTRA* rocket systems, acquired from Israel, on five bases in the Spratly Islands. The rockets are within reach of military-capable runways and weapons that China has placed atop artificial islands it has constructed during the past few years.

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## Carlosa

*PHILIPPINES PRESIDENT DUTERTE VISITS VIETNAM BUT U.S. JIBES CAST A SHADOW OVER DIPLOMACY*
*http://www.newsweek.com/philippines...tnam-china-cooperation-dispute-504084?ref=yfp
*
Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte met Vietnam's top leadership on Thursday, aiming to advance a burgeoning alliance that could become increasingly uncertain amid his defiance of the United States and overtures towards China.

Vietnam and the Philippines have drawn closer as China asserts more vigorously its claims of sovereignty in the South China Sea, but Duterte's almost daily jibes against the United States and his positive rhetoric about China may not sit well with Vietnam's leaders and their quieter, more calibrated diplomacy.

Duterte was greeted by an honor guard before he met his counterpart, Tran Dai Quang, for talks.

He was also due to meet Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and pay Communist Party Chief Nguyen Phu Trong a courtesy call. Vietnam has a joint leadership and no paramount ruler.

Hanging over the meetings will be the stir caused by the maverick former Philippine mayor at a function for Filipinos in Hanoi on Wednesday, when he "served notice" to the United States by announcing a cessation of joint military exercises, and ruled out joint navy patrols.

Philippine foreign minister Perfecto Yasay said on Thursday the Philippines would go ahead with the joint exercises with the United States in 2017, but the drills would be reviewed from 2018.

He said the Philippines did not want a military ally and wished to be friends with all countries, and alienate none, and that would be how it would settle disputes in the South China Sea.

While there are questions over U.S.-Philippine ties, thrown into question by Duterte's angry rejection of U.S. concern about his bloody war on drugs, Vietnam's relations with the United States have quickly expanded owing to some U.S. opportunism in the wake of a bitter row in 2014 between Vietnam and China over the South China Sea.

U.S. President Barack Obama visited Vietnam in May and announced the removal of a lethal arms embargo, the last major vestige of the war between them a half century ago, allowing for closer defense links and some joint military exercises.

Duterte's volatility has added to uncertainty about his foreign policy trajectory and experts anticipate that could weigh on a strategic partnership between Vietnam and the Philippines agreed last year by his predecessor, Benigno Aquino.

"Vietnam was quite enthusiastic about its new-found friend in the Philippines under Aquino, but Duterte's constant emotional outbursts against Washington has them a bit concerned," said Murray Hiebert, a Southeast Asia specialist at Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies.

He said Duterte might consult Vietnam's leaders about how they manage relations with China, the United States, and Japan in what was now "a very complicated environment".

Vietnam may be also be concerned about how Duterte approaches ties with China and whether that could jeopardize regional efforts to forge a unified position on its maritime activities.

"Vietnam would not want Mr Duterte to strike a deal with China over the South China Sea at the expense of Vietnam and other involved states," said political analyst Le Hong Hiep.

"The visit can be a timely opportunity for Mr Duterte to explain his South China Sea policy."

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## Aqsuperman

A demonstration at Miếu Môn that involved the test firing of the latest self - produced Gali Ace 31 and 32 with IWI assistance

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## Carlosa

Latest pic of the reclamation at Spratly Island

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## Viet

a battery of S-300 long range surface to air missiles



















This picture shows a vegetable I disliked very much when I was young but love it when I grew up

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> a battery of S-300 long range surface to air missiles
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture shows a vegetable I disliked very much when I was young but love it when I grew up



Bitter melon?

Viet Nam need more S-300(S-400 better)


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Bitter melon?
> 
> Viet Nam need more S-300(S-400 better)


Bitter melon soup with meat hackles is the king of melons 

a legacy of Vietnam war: US made M41 tank

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## Viet

Police

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## Viet



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## Viet

also a policewomen

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## Carlosa

*Russia to Hold Drills With India, Mongolia, Pakistan, Vietnam in 2017*
*https://sputniknews.com/military/20161001/1045892232/russia-drills-2017.html
*
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — He reminded that Russia and Pakistan had been carrying out the first joint Druzhba-2016 ("Friendship-2016") exercises since September 23, adding that on October 4-7 Russia would also engage in joint drills of the collective rapid deployment forces of the Central Asian countries "Rubezh-2016" ("Boundary-2016").





© Sputnik/ Vitaliy Ankov
Russian Pacific Fleet Missile Boats Conduct Artillery Drills in Primorye

"Next year we will conduct joint exercises with troops of Pakistan, India, Mongolia, Vietnam, Nicaragua and CSTO [Collective Security Treaty Organization's] member states," Salyukov told reporters.





© Sputnik/ Igor Zarembo

The CSTO is an intergovernmental military alliance of former Soviet states, which comprises Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, and Tajikistan.

Next year, Moscow, New Delhi and Islamabad will be allied in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a political, economic and military alliance which includes Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, as India and Pakistan are expected to get full-fledged membership in the organization by 2018.

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> *Russia to Hold Drills With India, Mongolia, Pakistan, Vietnam in 2017*
> *https://sputniknews.com/military/20161001/1045892232/russia-drills-2017.html
> *
> MOSCOW (Sputnik) — He reminded that Russia and Pakistan had been carrying out the first joint Druzhba-2016 ("Friendship-2016") exercises since September 23, adding that on October 4-7 Russia would also engage in joint drills of the collective rapid deployment forces of the Central Asian countries "Rubezh-2016" ("Boundary-2016").
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Sputnik/ Vitaliy Ankov
> Russian Pacific Fleet Missile Boats Conduct Artillery Drills in Primorye
> 
> "Next year we will conduct joint exercises with troops of Pakistan, India, Mongolia, Vietnam, Nicaragua and CSTO [Collective Security Treaty Organization's] member states," Salyukov told reporters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> © Sputnik/ Igor Zarembo
> 
> The CSTO is an intergovernmental military alliance of former Soviet states, which comprises Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, and Tajikistan.
> 
> Next year, Moscow, New Delhi and Islamabad will be allied in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a political, economic and military alliance which includes Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, as India and Pakistan are expected to get full-fledged membership in the organization by 2018.



lol The politic is such a mess.


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## Aqsuperman

Well that is why we better worry about our *** first before any external force can do that for us :3 

More picture about Vietnam UN contingent in Sudan.


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## Viet

I believe Duterte begins to run amok. He pisses on America at every opportunity and if a camera is in the near, just declares to slaughter 3 millions drug users. Simply nuts. But towards Vietnam he seems to have found a new friend. We now look forward to seeing the president of Iran Rouhano in October and the Duke of Cambridge, Prince William in November 


_







_

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> lol The politic is such a mess.


Russia is wise if she doesn't rely too much on her new found big friend but continues maintaining a good relationship to old friends, too such as Vietnam. In an unequal bond whereas Russia is degraded as humiliated resource provider and a market for Chinese finished goods. There is nothing to be proud of. Look at the figures: bilateral trades between Vietnam and Russia increases by 28 percent in the first 6 months this year, while Russia and China shrinks by 5 percent, in addition after collapsing by more than 30 percent last year. That shows the pathetic little substance of Chinese propaganda.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> I believe Duterte begins to run amok. He pisses on America at every opportunity and if a camera is in the near, just declares to slaughter 3 millions drug users. Simply nuts. But towards Vietnam he seems to have found a new friend. We now look forward to seeing the president of Iran Rouhano in October and the Duke of Cambridge, Prince William in November
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _



Most countries respect VN and her space. Except for China, she's our fat bully sister who does nothing but grub.



Viet said:


> Russia is wise if she doesn't rely too much on her new found big friend but continues maintaining a good relationship to old friends, too such as Vietnam. In an unequal bond whereas Russia is degraded as humiliated resource provider and a market for Chinese finished goods. There is nothing to be proud of. Look at the figures: bilateral trades between Vietnam and Russia increases by 28 percent in the first 6 months this year, while Russia and China shrinks by 5 percent, in addition after collapsing by more than 30 percent last year. That shows the pathetic little substance of Chinese propaganda.



Vietnam owes Russia a BIG favor. 

Do you think Vietnam and Russia can be enemies in a war?


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Most countries respect VN and her space. Except for China, she's our fat bully sister who does nothing but grub.


of course the chinese have every excuse why they need to teach Vietnam a lesson. or why the 9 dash line is there because as they claimed have discovered the sea since ancient times while we as monkeys inhabited on trees.


TenLua said:


> Vietnam owes Russia a BIG favor.
> 
> Do you think Vietnam and Russia can be enemies in a war?


why should Vietnam and Russia go to war? for what reason?

sure, Vietnam owes Russia a big thank you, but you should not forget Russia had acted on her national interest too. Fighting America was in line in the interest of the Soviet Union. Similar to why the UK helped USSR. During the WW II, the British sent hundreds of convoys loading tanks, fighter planes, fuel, ammunition, raw materials and food to the Soviet Union's northern ports, to Murmask. in total

*7,000 airplanes, 5,000 tanks*

without the assistance of the British and later the Americans, the Red Army would have much harder to withstand the German Wehrmacht onslaughts, filling the great losses. the war could have been lost.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> of course the chinese have every excuse why they need to teach Vietnam a lesson. or why the 9 dash line is there because as they claimed have discovered the sea since ancient times while we as monkeys inhabited on trees.
> 
> why should Vietnam and Russia go to war? for what reason?
> 
> sure, Vietnam owes Russia a big thank you, but you should not forget Russia had acted on her national interest too. Fighting America was in line in the interest of the Soviet Union. Similar to why the UK helped USSR. During the WW II, the British sent hundreds of convoys loading tanks, fighter planes, fuel, ammunition, raw materials and food to the Soviet Union's northern ports, to Murmask. in total
> 
> *7,000 airplanes, 5,000 tanks*
> 
> without the assistance of the British and later the Americans, the Red Army would have much harder to withstand the German Wehrmacht onslaughts, filling the great losses. the war could have been lost.



Still have to respect the tens of millions of Russians that died in that war defending their existence. The Soviet took the brunt of that war.

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## Viet

News 
*Vietnam Coast Guard receives high-speed patrol boats*
By Toan Dao 
October 1, 2016 | 10:29 am GMT+7






Photo by Vietnam Coast Guard

*The coast guard forces continue to boost their defense capacity with several new vessels this year.*

The Vietnam Coast Guard on Friday received four high-speed boats from local James Boat Technology Joint Stock Company in a bid to strengthen its maritime security capabilities.

With the four boats, James Boat has already handed over 10 out of 26 high-speed patrol boats that it was contracted to build, the Vietnam Coast Guard said in a statement.

The Hanoi-based James Boat said its products are the result of cooperation among scientists and technical experts from Switzerland, the Czech Republic and Germany.

The 13.6m long and 3.6m wide boats are capable of carrying 16 people and can operate at a maximum speed of 35 nautical miles per hour.

On September 25, the Vietnam Coast Guard also received the multi-functional vessel CSB 8005 in a move to beef up its capacity to defend the country’s maritime sovereignty.

The 2,400-ton ship, launched last November, was designed by the Netherlands’ Damen Shipyards Group and built by Song Thu Corporation, a unit of the Vietnamese defense ministry.

The ministry’s Hong Ha Shipyard on September 22 handed over another 720-ton multi-purpose vessel, the CBS 6002, to the coast guard. Two other ships, the CBS 2006 and CBS 2007, are on trial runs, according to a government statement.

The Vietnam Coast Guard was established in 1998 and is a branch of the Vietnam People’s Army. It is responsible for maintaining maritime security and protecting the country’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

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## Viet

Arms race everywhere. Military grade equipment for riot police.

Armored vehicles




















Barbed wire spreading vehicles






Water spraying vehicle






Troop transporters







Command vehicles






Riot policemen with Heckle & Koch MP5


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## Silent Knight

The third Gepard frigate is being tested in Novorossiysk. Looks like it will be delivered ahead of schedule.






You heard it first from ComCom, friends.

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## Mitchell Tran

What helmet does the Vietnamese army use?


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## Nike

Mitchell Tran said:


> What helmet does the Vietnamese army use?



recently i found the use of PASGT type helmet in Vietnam armed forces is more common


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## xiao qi

Mitchell Tran said:


> What helmet does the Vietnamese army use?







Kevlar or SSh-40,SSh-68




A2

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## Mitchell Tran

madokafc said:


> recently i found the use of PASGT type helmet in Vietnam armed forces is more common


Thanks



xiao qi said:


> Kevlar or SSh-40,SSh-68


Thanks

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## Mitchell Tran

What happen to this helmet and digital camouflage?


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> The third Gepard frigate is being tested in Novorossiysk. Looks like it will be delivered ahead of schedule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You heard it first from ComCom, friends.


nice. since we are at it, I wonder if there are things in the pipeline you can reveal without getting an invitation to a cup of greentea? 

we know the Navy negotiates for more two Gepard frigates, with weapon packages that make big impression at sea. little unclear about the fate of Sigma wheter will it come or not, despite a missile package was bought. is there any plan for more submarines? I believe 6 attack submarines is a good number but 12 would be an ideal number, considering our big neighbor has more submarines than our lighthouses at sea. the new Ba Son shipyard will become the biggest major naval shipyard, I guess?

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## Viet

Mitchell Tran said:


> What happen to this helmet and digital camouflage?


this one perhaps?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> nice. since we are at it, I wonder if there are things in the pipeline you can reveal without getting an invitation to a cup of greentea?
> 
> we know the Navy negotiates for more two Gepard frigates, with weapon packages that make big impression at sea. little unclear about the fate of Sigma wheter will it come or not, despite a missile package was bought. is there any plan for more submarines? I believe 6 attack submarines is a good number but 12 would be an ideal number, considering our big neighbor has more submarines than our lighthouses at sea. the new Ba Son shipyard will become the biggest major naval shipyard, I guess?


According to several news outlets (but not the official People's Army Newspaper), the SIGMA deal was cancelled. However, according to a source of mine who is way up in the chain of command, the SIGMA 9814 did get scrapped and replaced by a bigger and more capable variant like the 10514. ETA would be 2 years tops. But do take my words with a grain of salt, I cannot confirm nor deny these rumors.

There will definitely be another submarine contract, as 6 subs cannot cover our needs in a modern warfare. The question is whether the Navy would get another batch of Kilo subs, or we would take Western ones like the German Type-214.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> According to several news outlets (but not the official People's Army Newspaper), the SIGMA deal was cancelled. However, according to a source of mine who is way up in the chain of command, the SIGMA 9814 did get scrapped and replaced by a bigger and more capable variant like the 10514. ETA would be 2 years tops. But do take my words with a grain of salt, I cannot confirm nor deny these rumors.
> 
> There will definitely be another submarine contract, as 6 subs cannot cover our needs in a modern warfare. The question is whether the Navy would get another batch of Kilo subs, or we would take Western ones like the German Type-214.


I think if Sigma can't be realized then we should step up adding more Russia kilo class submarines. Adding German submarines would increase too much additional cost and complexity. Ideally we can build the next 6 Kilo subs in our shipyard. If the next generation of Kilo can be AIP, then it would be perfect. The Russians build Kilo subs for their Navy too, so the sub can't be too bad.

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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> Kevlar or SSh-40,SSh-68
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A2



Excellent form. Getting better.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> According to several news outlets (but not the official People's Army Newspaper), the SIGMA deal was cancelled. However, according to a source of mine who is way up in the chain of command, the SIGMA 9814 did get scrapped and replaced by a bigger and more capable variant like the 10514. ETA would be 2 years tops. But do take my words with a grain of salt, I cannot confirm nor deny these rumors.
> 
> There will definitely be another submarine contract, as 6 subs cannot cover our needs in a modern warfare. The question is whether the Navy would get another batch of Kilo subs, or we would take Western ones like the German Type-214.



Talking about subs, how about the Italian S-1000? There were a lot of negotiations on that.

Any chances for the new A-26 from Saab?



Viet said:


> I think if Sigma can't be realized then we should step up adding more Russia kilo class submarines. Adding German submarines would increase too much additional cost and complexity. Ideally we can build the next 6 Kilo subs in our shipyard. If the next generation of Kilo can be AIP, then it would be perfect. The Russians build Kilo subs for their Navy too, so the sub can't be too bad.



A Kilo with the Sterling AIP under license from Sweden would be nice. A lot of logistical / training savings in that case. Another alternative to the AIP would be to use Lithium batteries as in the last Soryu sub, the Japanese ditched the AIP for the Lithium ion batteries.

Myself I don't like the German subs much.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Talking about subs, how about the Italian S-1000? There were a lot of negotiations on that.
> 
> Any chances for the new A-26 from Saab?
> 
> 
> 
> A Kilo with the Sterling AIP under license from Sweden would be nice. A lot of logistical / training savings in that case. Another alternative to the AIP would be to use Lithium batteries as in the last Soryu sub, the Japanese ditched the AIP for the Lithium ion batteries.
> 
> Myself I don't like the German subs much.


Provided Germany sells the sub, each Dolphins 2 class costs $600 millions, much more than a Kilo, but much less lethal. The Israeli like the Dolphins because the German government pays 1/3 of the cost and second, the sub is modified to fire nuclear missiles. I will love seeing the Dolphins in our Navy if Germany gives us with such incentives, too.



TenLua said:


> Still have to respect the tens of millions of Russians that died in that war defending their existence. The Soviet took the brunt of that war.


The Germans have paid the price for their aggression. Probably not all know it. After the defeat, a member of the US government made a plan how to reduce Germany to a poor and backward agra country forever. The german survivors could feel lucky that the iron curtain had fallen between the victors and so Germany was needed as a bulwark against USSR. Anyway the Russians took a big chunk of territory as war compensation.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Provided Germany sells the sub, each Dolphins 2 class costs $600 millions, much more than a Kilo, but much less lethal. The Israeli like the Dolphins because the German government pays 1/3 of the cost and second, the sub is modified to fire nuclear missiles. I will love seeing the Dolphins in our Navy if Germany gives us with such incentives, too.
> .



Also another thing that I don't like about German subs is the AIP system, Its quite dangerous. If there is an accident, the sub is toasted.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Also another thing that I don't like about German subs is the AIP system, Its quite dangerous. If there is an accident, the sub is toasted.


You mean fuel cells aboard can burn through the sub body?



madokafc said:


> recently i found the use of PASGT type helmet in Vietnam armed forces is more common


Whatever but I believe our women have the best looking helmets

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> You mean fuel cells aboard can burn through the sub body?



Yes, big explosion.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, big explosion.


Haven't heard any incident on submarine yet. Oxygen and hydrogen gas are separately stored in very safe tanks outside of pressure hull.


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## Silent Knight

When you're too lazy to walk to the beach.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Haven't heard any incident on submarine yet. Oxygen and hydrogen gas are separately stored in very safe tanks outside of pressure hull.



No accident yet, but that's the risk with that type of AIP, Its the most danger prone of all the AIP systems. The competitors of Germany keep talking about that.

Don't forget that although the Oxygen and hydrogen gas are separately stored, they do get combined together in the AIP generator and that's where the danger is.

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## Viet

*U.S. Warships Make First Visit to Vietnam Base in Decades*

John Boudreau  svwriter 

Chris Blake  KissBlake 
October 3, 2016 — 11:03 PM EDT Updated on October 4, 2016 — 4:43 AM EDT







The USS John McCain.


Photographer: Bullit Marquez/AP Photo

U.S.-Vietnam ties have grown as China presses sea claims
Cam Ranh Bay was hub of U.S. military activity in Vietnam War
Two American warships stopped in Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Bay this week for the first time since the two nations normalized relations 21 years ago, the U.S. Navy said on Tuesday.

Submarine tender USS Frank Cable and guided-missile destroyer USS John S. McCain made the visit on Oct. 2 as part of naval engagement activities between the U.S. and Vietnam, the navy said in a statement. Other military sealift ships have visited in the past, it said.

The visit is part of recent U.S. efforts to enhance naval ties with Vietnam as it seeks to counter China’s assertiveness over disputed territory in nearby waters. Beijing has reclaimed thousands of acres of land in the South China Sea and increased its military presence in recent years, raising concern from Vietnam and other claimants.

"It sort of speaks to the growing substance of this U.S.-Vietnam defense and security relationship," said Collin Koh, a research fellow at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore who studies maritime security. "I think we have seen in more recent years that Vietnam is sliding more toward countries like Japan and the U.S. for obvious reasons that China has risen and grown more assertive."

The U.S. and Vietnam last week announced the start of its seventh annual naval engagement. The drills beginning in Danang will include maritime exercises focused on communications through the code for unplanned encounters at sea, and a search and rescue operation, according to a statement by the office of the U.S. Commander Logistics Group Western Pacific.

The visit comes as the U.S. faces uncertainty in its relationship with the Philippines, a longtime regional ally and also a party to the South China Sea dispute. New Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has frequently called into question the future of the alliance, including a recent comment that joint maritime drills that kicked off Tuesday will be the last. He has indicated he is open to closer relations with China.

"We should not overlook the symbolic importance of this visit, especially at a time when U.S.-Philippine relations are coming under strain due to President Duterte’s anti-American and seemingly pro-China rhetoric," said Ian Storey, a senior fellow at the ISEAS-Yusof Ishak Institute in Singapore. "If the U.S.-Philippine alliance does start to unravel, America will want to expand its defense cooperation with Vietnam."

Cam Ranh Bay, located about 220 miles (354 kilometers) north of Ho Chi Minh City, has been of strategic significance to the world’s powers for more than 100 years. Built by the French in the 19th century and later occupied by Japan during World War II, Cam Ranh Bay was offered to the U.S. by its ally South Vietnam in 1965.

The U.S. upgraded the air and naval facilities for use in the war. It was handed back to South Vietnam in 1972 as part of the so-called Vietnamization effort and captured by the communist forces in 1975.

In 2012, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta became the highest-ranking American official to visit Cam Ranh Bay since the Vietnam War.

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## Silent Knight

The Su-30MK2V fleet took the spotlight for too long, now it's showtime for the Su-22s.


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## Viet

Welcome to the Bay!

for the first time since the end of Vietnam war, US warships are seen in the Bay of Cam ranh.

Guided Missile Destroyer USS John McCain


























Submarine tender USS Frank Cable













and especially we greet Capt. H. B. Le, a Vietnamese ethnic, the Commodore of Destroyer Squadron 7 of US Pacific Command (USPACOM).

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## Viet



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## Viet

Secretary of Defense Ash Carter speaks aboard the USS Carl Vinson at North Island. Photo by Chris Jennewein


„Die Zusammenarbeit zwischen den USA und Vietnam hat sich intensiviert. Wir haben vor Kurzem das Lieferungsverbot von tödlichen Waffen nach Vietnam mit dem Ziel aufgehoben, dem Land den Zugang zu der Militärtechnik zu ermöglichen, die es irgendwann brauchen wird“.

Mehr: https://de.sputniknews.com/panorama/20160930/312770756/usa-vietnam-zerstoerer-hanoi-militaer.html


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## Viet

Infantry with BMP-1

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## Viet

Live fire exercise

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## Aqsuperman

"Deputy Defence Minister Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh made the remark during his reception in Hanoi on October 3 for Thailand’s out-going Defence and Army, Navy, and Air Force attachés in Vietnam and their newly-appointed replacements. " 






Since god - know - when, Thailand behaviors to VN has always been unpredictable. But to cultivate ties wont hurt, i guess.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> "Deputy Defence Minister Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh made the remark during his reception in Hanoi on October 3 for Thailand’s out-going Defence and Army, Navy, and Air Force attachés in Vietnam and their newly-appointed replacements. "
> 
> Since god - know - when, Thailand behaviors to VN has always been unpredictable. But to cultivate ties wont hurt, i guess.


actually I see our relationship to the Siamese is the best in history. by the way, the children in Vietnam should drink more milk, eat more meat to get taller. it won´t be too bad if the government implements a national program of introducing milk for all schoolchildren. our kids in overseas are generally tall, having more weight.

teaching Vietnamese in Germany

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> actually I see our relationship to the Siamese is the best in history. by the way, the children in Vietnam should drink more milk, eat more meat to get taller. it won´t be too bad if the government implements a national program of introducing milk for all schoolchildren. our kids in overseas are generally tall, having more weight.
> 
> teaching Vietnamese in Germany



THIS!!! THIS a million times. The majority of the Vietnamese kids born in the US are 5'9-6'1 tall. Vietnamese people aren't short genetically, at least I don't think so. Malnutrition is what causes Vietnamese look sickly. Free infant milk should be given until a child is 13, at the very least.

This must be done if we want children's brain to fully develop. That can't happen if kids spent half their childhood starving. I've been thinking about this for a long time.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> THIS!!! THIS a million times. The majority of the Vietnamese kids born in the US are 5'9-6'1 tall. Vietnamese people aren't short genetically, at least I don't think so. Malnutrition is what causes Vietnamese look sickly. Free infant milk should be given until a child is 13, at the very least.
> 
> This must be done if we want children's brain to fully develop. That can't happen if kids spent half their childhood starving. I've been thinking about this for a long time.


should be a national nutrition program for all kids. free education, free milk, free lunch for all school kids

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## Viet

He is actually a native of Hué, the old capital of Vietnam, Capt. H.B. Le, Commodore of the US Destroyer Squadron 7 (USPACOM) with Rear Adm. Darwanto, Commander of the Eastern Fleet Command RI of the Indonesian Navy, discussing on CARAT Indonesia.

Carat is a series of annual maritime exercises between the U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps with the Armed Forces of Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Timor-Leste.

what is the missing country? Vietnam.

Nearly every country on the planet does military exercise with the US armed forces, but there are still too much hesitations hence not happening any time soon.


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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> THIS!!! THIS a million times. The majority of the Vietnamese kids born in the US are 5'9-6'1 tall. Vietnamese people aren't short genetically, at least I don't think so. Malnutrition is what causes Vietnamese look sickly. Free infant milk should be given until a child is 13, at the very least.
> 
> This must be done if we want children's brain to fully develop. That can't happen if kids spent half their childhood starving. I've been thinking about this for a long time.



The problem is, infant formula milk in Vietnam is very expensive (much more than in western countries). Since people care a lot about getting high quality formula for their children (the ones that can afford it), companies have been using it as a product for high profit (exactly the same situation in China). The government have been trying to do price controls, but companies always figure a way out of that. No solution on sight. Also, many such products sold by Vietnamese companies are of substandard quality, they advertise one thing, but give something different. They may mix the original milk powder with lower quality ones or even do a total fake like advertising pure New Zealand formula and actually giving chinese milk powder. A lot of tricky people in Vietnam in the food business, only China is worst. Sorry to say it, but its the truth.

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> The problem is, infant formula milk in Vietnam is very expensive (much more than in western countries). Since people care a lot about getting high quality formula for their children (the ones that can afford it), companies have been using it as a product for high profit (exactly the same situation in China). The government have been trying to do price controls, but companies always figure a way out of that. No solution on sight. Also, many such products sold by Vietnamese companies are of substandard quality, they advertise one thing, but give something different. They may mix the original milk powder with lower quality ones or even do a total fake like advertising pure New Zealand formula and actually giving chinese milk powder. A lot of tricky people in Vietnam in the food business, only China is worst. Sorry to say it, but its the truth.



But what about the children? Somebody think about the children!!!!!


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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> But what about the children? Somebody think about the children!!!!!



Only the government have the power to do something, but they are not known for being very effective. They are good at talking, but not very good at delivering. Its a bad situation.

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> Only the government have the power to do something, but they are not known for being very effective. They are good at talking, but not very good at delivering. Its a bad situation.



God should call them up for green tea.

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## Viet

*Iran's president starts visit to Hanoi for talks*
Source: Xinhua 2016-10-05 19:38:03




Rouhani will meet with his Vietnamese counterpart Tran Dai Quang in Hanoi, and attend an ACD summit in Bangkok. (AFP photo)


TEHRAN, Oct. 5 (Xinhua) -- Iranian President Hassan Rouhani left Tehran for Vietnam capital Hanoi on Wednesday in an official visit to discuss mutual ties, official IRNA news agency reported.

In his two-day visit to Hanoi, Rouhani will head a high-ranking political and economic delegation, the report said.

Rouhani will meet with his Vietnamese counterpart Tran Dai Quang and other senior officials to discuss promotion of relations.

Both countries will sign cooperation agreements in diverse areas.

Before departure, Rouhani described Asia, particularly East Asia, as highly important for Iran to establish and develop ties.

Also, Rouhani hailed Vietnam as a country which has contributed to the economic development in the region, and the one that enjoys good and close relations with Iran, according to Press TV.

He said that the visit to Vietnam is meant to enhance bilateral ties, especially in the areas of exporting technical and engineering services from the Islamic republic to the country.

According to the report, a delegation from Iran's private sector will also discuss economic relations with their Vietnamese partners in Hanoi during the president's visit.

Reportedly, trade exchanges between Iran and Vietnam reached 300 million U.S. dollars in 2013 from 80 million dollars in 2010.

Currently, the bilateral trade between stand at 350 million dollars. Iran has expressed interest in raising the figure to 2 billion dollars in five years.

After the visit to Hanoi, Rouhani will travel to the capital of Thailand, Bangkok, on Friday to attend a summit of the inter-governmental organization of Asia Cooperation Dialogue (ACD).


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> But what about the children? Somebody think about the children!!!!!


The corporations don't. They always find a way to bypass government control, making the price higher and higher. Not to mention that the "milk" is often stripped of nutrition, even in the expensive brands.

Meanwhile, here's the pilots from Naval Aviation with their EC-225 Super Puma.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The problem is, infant formula milk in Vietnam is very expensive (much more than in western countries). Since people care a lot about getting high quality formula for their children (the ones that can afford it), companies have been using it as a product for high profit (exactly the same situation in China). The government have been trying to do price controls, but companies always figure a way out of that. No solution on sight. Also, many such products sold by Vietnamese companies are of substandard quality, they advertise one thing, but give something different. They may mix the original milk powder with lower quality ones or even do a total fake like advertising pure New Zealand formula and actually giving chinese milk powder. A lot of tricky people in Vietnam in the food business, only China is worst. Sorry to say it, but its the truth.


what Vietnam needs is an independent food watchdog.

we can learn one or two lessons from countries who made great advances in food security. take Germany. the people take very serious approaches for example if it comes to drink water and baby milk powder. I can drink water direct from a tap everywhere in the country, because tap water is one of the most controlled items in terms of food security. it has nearly the same quality like mineral water. baby milk powder is more controlled than tap water. lots of reports about hordes of Chinese tourists storm german supermarkets, buying all available baby milk powder, so some store managers are forced to restrict the purchases.

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## Viet

Official Greeting of Hassan Rouhani, the president of Islam Republic of Iran

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## Viet

if there is a city that can rival Saigon and Hanoi then it is Da Nang. the city government just approves a plan to build a sea port for a cost of $1.48 billion: *Lien Chieu* port. I would expect as usual the port serves both civil and military purposes. it is a long term plan though.


the beach of Da Nang







the new port will surpass the existing *Tien Sa* port by great margin.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> if there is a city that can rival Saigon and Hanoi then it is Da Nang.
> the beach of Da Nang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the new port will surpass the existing *Tien Sa* port by great margin.



That's right, that's why I live there. There is quality of life in Danang. Good natural environment, clean, fresh ocean air and for Vietnam standards, Its the most well managed, efficient city in Vietnam.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's right, that's why I live there. There is quality of life in Danang. Good natural environment, clean, fresh ocean air and for Vietnam standards, Its the most well managed, efficient city in Vietnam.


You made a good choice

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## Viet

Bye bye Ba Son shipyard that served the Navy for more than 100 years. See you again in a new location. The place is now for homes of millions of people, who leave rural areas for cities that never sleep.

Vinhome golden river (Saigon)

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## Aqsuperman

_"Vo Van Tuan, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army, met with officers of Laos’s border guard force and Bangladesh’s national defence college on October 4, aiming to enhance defence cooperation"






Of all of our neighbor, Laos has proven be among the most reliable. But with incoming investment from our Northern neighbor, there is little prediction of what may happen. _

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## Viet

Money is one thing, but not everything. Laos has a choice with country she wants to rely on for external security, but I wonder why she always chooses Vietnam for almost of her history. That is surprising considering Laos could have chosen more powerful neighbors as China or Thailand, or external powers as America and France.

March!

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Money is one thing, but not everything. Laos has a choice with country she wants to rely on for external security, but I wonder why she always chooses Vietnam for almost of her history. That is surprising considering Laos could have chosen more powerful neighbors as China or Thailand, or external powers as America and France.
> 
> March!
> View attachment 341386
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 341388
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 341389
> 
> 
> View attachment 341390



I noticed they don't shave their heads like US soldiers do.



Viet said:


> Bye bye Ba Son shipyard that served the Navy for more than 100 years. See you again in a new location. The place is now for homes of millions of people, who leave rural areas for cities that never sleep.
> 
> Vinhome golden river (Saigon)


 not green enough imo.


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## Viet

Neoteric Hovercraft. US made small size version hovercraft. the Navy may need a bigger version if wanting to transport tanks


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> not green enough imo.


haiphong 148m tower. completion end of 2017. green enough?


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## dingyibvs

TenLua said:


> THIS!!! THIS a million times. The majority of the Vietnamese kids born in the US are 5'9-6'1 tall. Vietnamese people aren't short genetically, at least I don't think so. Malnutrition is what causes Vietnamese look sickly. Free infant milk should be given until a child is 13, at the very least.
> 
> This must be done if we want children's brain to fully develop. That can't happen if kids spent half their childhood starving. I've been thinking about this for a long time.



It's not just nutrition, U.S. livestock are pumped full of antibiotics and hormones.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> haiphong 148m tower. completion end of 2017. green enough?



LOL. very much so.


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## gtiger

Viet said:


> Money is one thing, but not everything. Laos has a choice with country she wants to rely on for external security, but I wonder why she always chooses Vietnam for almost of her history. That is surprising considering Laos could have chosen more powerful neighbors as China or Thailand, or external powers as America and France.
> 
> March!


As far as I know Laos was a victim of Thailand's expansion over the eras. Lan Xang once owned much of the northeast of Thailand. It fell under the control of the Thais. In the 19th century, Laotians rose up for independence and got help from the Vietnamese. Because Vietnam's ambition was limited in Laos, and many Vietnamese settled in the country and intermixed with Laotians, the relationship between the two countries have been relatively friendly. As Communist Vietnam supported the Pathet Laos, it's natural that post-Vietnam War relationship has been without much rancor.

Because the remoteness, Laos and China's relationship has been less developed, but the two countries have grown a lot closer, but according to reports, new Chinese immigrants have tended to stick to their own ethnic group. That undoubtedly has generated suspicions among the locals similar to the situation in Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

*Russia Hints at Reclaiming Cuba, Vietnam Bases in Test for U.S.*
*http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-hints-reclaiming-cuba-vietnam-152349052.html
*
Threatening to open Cold War wounds and further aggravate ties with the U.S. that are already strained by the conflict in Syria, a senior Russian defense official said the military is considering a possible return to its Soviet-era bases in Cuba and Vietnam.

In the clearest confirmation to date that Russia may scrap its decision to withdraw from the two countries more than a decade ago, Deputy Defense Minister Nikolai Pankov told lawmakers in Moscow on Friday that the military is revisiting the issue, without providing more details, according to the state-run Tass news service. Responding to a question about the plans, President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said the global security situation has become “rather fluid” after “substantial changes” over the past two years.

“It’s natural that all countries are assessing these changes in accordance with their national interests and taking certain measures they consider necessary,” Peskov said, referring more detailed questions to the Defense Ministry.

A move to reclaim the bases, abandoned shortly after Putin came to power in 2000, would further expose fault lines of the Cold War standoff with the U.S. as the two former rivals now duel over the 5 1/2 year war in Syria. While Russia withdrew from Cuba and Vietnam, it kept its small base in the Syrian port of Tartus, the only naval facility it’s maintained outside the former Soviet Union.

Since Putin entered the conflict in the Middle Eastern country on behalf of President Bashar al-Assad a year ago, Russia has now added a second base in Syria’s Khmeimim, used for conducting air raids against groups opposed to government forces there. The lower house of parliament on Friday ratified a treaty that allows Russia to keep the air base in Syria indefinitely.

*Deepening Rift*
The U.S. has blamed Putin’s government for indiscriminate bombing that has killed civilians and targeted hospitals in Syria, cutting bilateral discussions with Russia over the conflict after a Sept. 9 cease-fire deal collapsed within days. Russia hasn’t budged from its support for Assad, continuing to back the Syrian regime’s bombardments in Aleppo, where the United Nations estimates 275,000 people are trapped.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on Friday called for an investigation into possible war crimes in Syria after a hospital bombardment killed 20 people, saying that Russia and Assad’s regime “owe the world more than an explanation” for the attack.

The clashing views are reviving tensions started by the separatist war in Ukraine, with the U.S. and the European Union accusing Russia of backing the insurgency. Russia’s expanding military presence, from Vietnam to Latin America, has already drawn notice from the U.S.

*Cuba, Vietnam*
The State Department last year confirmed then that the U.S. was pressing Vietnam to bar Russian military aircraft from refueling at the former American base at Cam Ranh Bay, while a U.S. commander raised concerns about Russia’s military activities in the Western Hemisphere. The facility in Cam Ranh Bay, a U.S. base during the Vietnam War, was a Soviet naval base until 2002.

In 2012, a senior military official in Moscow said that Russia was in talks to set up resupply bases in Cuba after undertaking its biggest military overhaul since the Soviet era. Putin visited the Caribbean island in 2014, with Russia writing off $32 billion of Cuba’s Soviet-era debt.

Under the deal that ended the 1962 Cuban crisis, the Soviet Union withdrew its missiles on the island and pledged not to station offensive weapons. Russian military cooperation with Cuba ended in 2002 after Russia closed its radar base at Lourdes, Russia’s only intelligence-gathering center in the Western Hemisphere, which had been operating since the 1960s.


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## Aqsuperman

Look like the KSVK anti material rifle project has hit a rock. Now our soldiers are training with Polish WKW Wilk

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## Viet

today a quiz: discovering the differences between the two pictures below. both show Vietnamese General and Defence Minister Phùng Quang Thanh with China and South Korean counterparts


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## Viet

gtiger said:


> As far as I know Laos was a victim of Thailand's expansion over the eras. Lan Xang once owned much of the northeast of Thailand. It fell under the control of the Thais. In the 19th century, Laotians rose up for independence and got help from the Vietnamese. Because Vietnam's ambition was limited in Laos, and many Vietnamese settled in the country and intermixed with Laotians, the relationship between the two countries have been relatively friendly. As Communist Vietnam supported the Pathet Laos, it's natural that post-Vietnam War relationship has been without much rancor.
> 
> Because the remoteness, Laos and China's relationship has been less developed, but the two countries have grown a lot closer, but according to reports, new Chinese immigrants have tended to stick to their own ethnic group. That undoubtedly has generated suspicions among the locals similar to the situation in Vietnam.


without Vietnam´s intervention, neither Laos nor Cambodia would exist today, but being a part of China or Thailand. Or worse in civil war and chaos. Although both countries are still poor but they are ones of most peaceful countries on earth, comparing to the disaster around us: ethnic violence, racial tension and terrorism. Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, the "old Indochina" are virtually free from those cancers. Money can´t buy lives. whereas Laos plays an immense strategic role because it protects Vietnam from attacks from the West (China and Thailand) as well as enables Vietnam to conduct war of attrition against great military powers as France, America and China.

Without support and resources of Laos, we would have hard time to withstand chinese onslaught should it come to a new war.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> without Vietnam´s intervention, neither Laos nor Cambodia would exist today, but being a part of China or Thailand. Or worse in civil war and chaos. Although both countries are still poor but they are ones of most peaceful countries on earth, comparing to the disaster around us: ethnic violence, racial tension and terrorism. Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, the "old Indochina" are virtually free from those cancers. Money can´t buy lives. whereas Laos plays an immense strategic role because it protects Vietnam from attacks from the West (China and Thailand) as well as enables Vietnam to conduct war of attrition against great military powers as France, America and China.
> 
> Without support and resources of Laos, we would have hard time to withstand chinese onslaught should it come to a new war.



Looking at that map, Vietnam need to annex 4 countries.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Looking at that map, Vietnam need to annex 4 countries.


There are 93 millions in Vietnam and the number increases by 1-2 millions a year. Not to mention the 5 millions viet kieu. I don't think we have interest to annex other people to make them to Vietnamese


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> There are 93 millions in Vietnam and the number increases by 1-2 millions a year. Not to mention the 5 millions viet kieu. I don't think we have interest to annex other people to make them to Vietnamese



Maybe 20 years from now. Like how the USA free the shit out of the middle east, Viet Nam will free SEA lol.


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## Viet

*What the Philippines and Australia can learn from Vietnam about living with China*

Euan Graham

5 October 2016 11:14AM


It is early days, granted, but the Philippines' crude and crass new president Rodrigo Duterte appears increasingly intent on reversing his predecessor's plucky South China Sea policy and pro-Alliance leanings, opting instead for a tilt towards China.

The Philippines' proclivity to flip-flop in its great power relations reflects various factors. One is the absence of a strategic tradition. This is evident in the priority accorded by Duterte to domestic challenges over external security, even when the latter extends to China's strategic encroachment within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone, a legal violation explicitly flagged by The Hague arbitral ruling. Another is the disproportionate attention occupied by the US, Manila's treaty ally. This has a distorting quality, be it along 'pro' or 'anti' alliance lines.

At a conference I attended recently, a Filipino participant argued that geographical 'proximity' compels Manila to be more accommodating towards China following five years of tensions with Beijing over the South China Sea. Vietnam offers an instructive contrast on this point, and not only for the Philippines.








Vietnam shares a 1200-kilometre land border with China, demarcated by mutual agreement. Even a negotiated land border puts a very different complexion on the bilateral relationship. Although Vietnam came off better from the 1979 border war with China, Hanoi must live, uniquely among Southeast Asia's South China Sea territorial claimants, with that heightened strategic vulnerability. Beijing could, if it wished, position forces on the border to pressure Hanoi in a crisis. China's air force bears no comparison to 1979. Hainan Province, where many of China's most-advanced naval and air assets are already concentrated, flanks the north Vietnamese coast in semi-encirclement. Hanoi is 173 kilometres from the Chinese border – approximately the distance from Canberra to Bowral – and would be immediately vulnerable if general hostilities broke out.

If proximity was the deciding factor, Vietnam should be more subservient to China than it is. Instead, the country has demonstrated very high tolerance of strategic risk, including during the confrontation over China's positioning of an energy rig within disputed watersin 2014. Vietnam chose to escalate in that case by mobilising its modest maritime forces to face down the rig and accompanying Chinese forces over a two-month standoff, during which the risk of collision and confrontation was constant. In the end, China backed down. 

In an all-out conflict, Vietnam's armed forces have little hope of prevailing against China's PLA. Nonetheless, Hanoi has directed scarce resources to maritime and air acquisitions in recent years, giving Vietnam's navy and air force sharpened teeth with the aim of fielding a credible conventional deterrent. Vietnam is now the eighth-largest arms importer. The civilianised coast guard has also undergone expansion, receiving external assistance, as is the case in the Philippines.

This ambitious capability build-up in Vietnam is being carried out despite defence spending that is roughly equal to Malaysia in dollar terms and only slightly higher than the Philippines. Yet in capability terms, there is no comparison: the Philippine Air Force has only recently re-introduced jets into service after a lengthy gap, while the navy's frontline combatant is a US-gifted, refitted Coast Guard cutter built during the Vietnam War. Duterte aims to reverse this long-overdue modernisation trend towards external defence, re-emphasising counter-insurgency as the armed forces' primary function.

Beyond the deterrent value of raising costs for China in a military sense, Vietnam understands the complex interplay between diplomacy and military power. This includes psychological aspects, above all the capacity for independent action that is embodied in a national defence capability maintained at high readiness. Vietnam's defence inventory includes Israeli-made radars, Russian S-300 surface-to-air missiles, Su-27 and Su-30MK2 strike aircraft and Kilo submarines equipped with land-attack cruise missiles. This resembles a thrifty but still potent version of China's own 'anti-access' and sea denial dispositions vis-à-vis the US.

Hanoi further avoids the flip-flop mentality by maintaining depth to its international relations, averting dependence on a single ally, and ensuring that alternatives are available when a comprehensive strategic partner like Russia proves unreliable. This cultivation of strategic bandwidth, a trait Hanoi shares with Singapore, extends beyond defence and diplomacy. Vietnam consciously pursues diversified economic partners, courting investment from a wide base and 'strategic' agreements like the Trans-Pacific Partnership to balance its trade dependence on China. Hanoi closely tracked the Philippine legal case against China in the South China Sea, hinting it will launch proceedings of its own if pushed too far.

History naturally pervades Vietnam's strategic behaviour. Not simply in the folk-memory sense of resisting and ultimately prevailing against materially superior forces in wars with France, the US and, for much of Vietnam's independent history, China. These struggles have conditioned the Vietnamese polity to calculate strategic risk, and to embrace it. Relative to past sacrifices, the risk of standing up to China in the South China Sea appears acceptable. Intuitively, Hanoi grasps that an approach based simply on conflict avoidance and de-escalation with China is doomed to failure.

Vietnam's real trick lies in showing that it is possible to have a coherent approach towards China that combines competition, with bouts of confrontation, and sustained political engagement. Hotlines can go unanswered and its envoys are sometimes cold-shouldered. But channels, including inter-Party, are generally maintained in a complicated relationship that respects coexistence, however grudgingly, in spite of strategic distrust, disputes and tensions in the South China Sea. Enemies can be forgiven but neighbours are permanent.

Vietnam and the Philippines draw from divergent traditions and cultures, but as Manila currently lurches between the great powers in search of an 'independent' foreign policy, it should look to its strategic partner across the South China Sea, for clear-eyed lessons on the realities of self-reliance, defending the national interest and living at close quarters with strategic risk. Even faraway Australia, now feeling the pressures of strategic competition in the region more directly and prone to looking through an alliance prism, could usefully take a page out of Vietnam's book on how to manage a broad-spectrum relationship with Beijing that includes both cooperation and competition. 

_Photo: Andia/UIG via Getty Images_

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> Looking at that map, Vietnam need to annex 4 countries.



That's the same as saying that if China looks at that map, then China should annex 5 countries. Would you feel good about China annexing Vietnam? I don't think those other 4 countries would feel good about been annexed by Vietnam.



TenLua said:


> Maybe 20 years from now. Like how the USA free the shit out of the middle east, Viet Nam will free SEA lol.



USA freed the middle east from what? Is the middle east better off now?

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> That's the same as saying that if China looks at that map, then China should annex 5 countries. Would you feel good about China annexing Vietnam? I don't think those other 4 countries would feel good about been annexed by Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> USA freed the middle east from what? Is the middles east better off now?



The joke flew right over your head.

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## Viet

Here is a map of the new $1.48 billion seaport of Da Nang.

http://www.joc.com/port-news/asian-...rt-trade-growth-outpaces-region_20161007.html

@Carlosa

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Here is a map of the new $1.48 billion seaport of Da Nang.
> 
> http://www.joc.com/port-news/asian-...rt-trade-growth-outpaces-region_20161007.html
> 
> @Carlosa



Yes, nice, its a nice expansion, Tien Sa port is operating at maximum capacity now and its also been used for cruise ships. After the new port is done, Tien Sa will be used mainly for cruise ships.

I did not hear anything about any expansion of the military port.



TenLua said:


> The joke flew right over your head.



Ok, as a joke its ok.

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> Yes, nice, its a nice expansion, Tien Sa port is operating at maximum capacity now and its also been used for cruise ships. After the new port is done, Tien Sa will be used mainly for cruise ships.
> 
> I did not hear anything about any expansion of the military port.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, as a joke its ok.



For example, if I wanted to free a bird, I'll let it fly out of my hand. If I wanted to free the shit out of that bird, I would throw him straight to the ground. The impact would squish the shit out of the bird and it will die.

There's a joke here in the states where every time a country announce that they have discovered newfound natural resource wealth, people here would say," Uh oh, the US is going to rain down freedom and democracy on that country." The same type of freedom and democracy witnessed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and the list won't stop there. Feel me?

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> For example, if I wanted to free a bird, I'll let it fly out of my hand. If I wanted to free the shit out of that bird, I would throw him straight to the ground. The impact would squish the shit out of the bird and it will die.
> 
> There's a joke here in the states where every time a country announce that they have discovered newfound natural resource wealth, people here would say," Uh oh, the US is going to rain down freedom and democracy on that country." The same type of freedom and democracy witnessed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and the list won't stop there. Feel me?



Got it man.

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## Viet

The legendary S-75 ground to air missile is upgraded to S-75M3.

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## Viet

*T-90-Panzer rollen bald nach Vietnam – Eine Groß-Bestellung im Gespräch*

© Sputnik/ Alexey Filippo 09:28 03.10.2016







Vietnam hat vor, rund 100 russische T-90-Panzer zu erwerben. Wie die Tageszeitung „Iswestija“ am Montag unter Berufung auf Wladimir Rostschupkin, Exekutiv-Direktor des Herstellers Uralwagonsawod, berichtet, verhandeln die Seiten momentan über Preis und Liefermenge.

Wie er hinzufügte, werden spezielle Anforderungen an die Ausstattung der Panzer für die Bedingungen Südostasiens diskutiert, sobald eine Einigung über den Preis erzielt ist. Nach Angaben der Zeitung besteht bei der vietnamesischen Armee ein akuter Bedarf an neuer Kampftechnik. Momentan verfügt das vietnamesische Heer über mehrere hundert sowjetische und chinesische Panzer, die zum Teil von israelischen Spezialisten modernisiert wurden. Zuvor hat Vietnam über den Kauf von T-72-Panzern bei Polen verhandelt, zu einem Geschäftsabschluss kam es allerdings nicht.









Der militärpolitische Experte Ruslan Puchow, Direktor des Zentrums für strategische und technologische Analysen, meint, dass der russische Produzent notfalls zu Zugeständnissen für die vietnamesische Seite bereit sein sollte. „Dieser Markt wird jetzt von unseren Konkurrenten aktiv erschlossen“, sagte er gegenüber der „Iswestija“. „Vor kurzem hat Vietnam dem Sturmgewehr Kalaschnikow Waffen aus israelischer Produktion vorgezogen. Auch Frankreich bietet dort seine Kampftechnik aktiv an. Es wäre besser, unseren traditionellen Partner nicht zu verlieren.“

Der T-90-Panzer gehört zur Grundausrüstung der russischen Armee. Größere Posten davon wurden bereits an Algerien, Aserbaidschan und Indien geliefert. Über eine bestimmte Anzahl von Panzern dieses Typs verfügen auch syrische Streitkräfte, die diese Panzer im Kampf gegen die Terroristen einsetzen.



Mehr: https://de.sputniknews.com/zeitungen/20161003312788096-russische-t-90-panzer-vietnam/


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## Viet

I translate the article for the benefit of non-german speakers 








*T-90 tanks soon come to Vietnam - a big order under discussion*

the Daily "Iswestija" reports, Vietnam intends to acquire 100 T-90 tanks. According to Wladimir Rostschupkin, the executive director of Uralwagonsawod, the company that produces the tanks, Vietnam and Russia are currently negotiating on price and quantity. He adds, Vietnam wants special configuration for the tanks.

Vietnam urgently needs new modern battle tanks. At the moment, the Vietnamese armed forces possess hundreds of Soviet and Chinese made battle tanks. some of tanks have been undergone modernization and upgraded by Israeli specialists. The country previously negotiated with Poland for delivery of T-72 tanks, but the negotiation failed by some reasons.

Ruslan Puchow, the director of Centrum for Strategic and Technology analysis, urges the russian company to make concession: "the market is highly competitive. Vietnam recently preferred Israeli assault rifles over Kalaschnikow from Russia. Also, France offers weaponry. it is better not to lose Vietnam to our competitors."

T-90s belong to standard main battle tanks of Russian armed forces. many countries operate T-90 such as Algeria, Aserbaidschan and India. Syria also fields T-90 tanks against terror groups.

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## Viet

Su-30

8593, 8594 








The end of an era. With last delivery of two Su-30 to Vietnam ends the production of the jet fighter. Though it isn't time to go home yet. The jet manufacturer KnAAZ will continue with Su-35.

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## Viet

besides Da Nang, the government approved a plan to construct $2.5 billion Hon Khoai deepwater port (Ca Mau), with construction due to start in the last quarter of 2016. I wonder where the funds should come from, unless we have discovered a gold mine 









if the port becomes reality, together with the proposed Kra canal, result in shortening the sea route between Indian Ocean and South China Sea, thing will become very interesting. strategically speaking. a feasibility study was undertaken in 2015 by Bechtel Corp., the largest construction and civil engineering company in America. it is also reported that 85% of Hon Khoai Port will be financed by the US Export-Import Bank (Ex-Im Bank), a US government backed export credit agency. Chinese media reported in May 2015 that China and Thailand had signed a memorandum of understanding to build the Kra Canal for $28 billion.

bye bye Singapore

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> besides Da Nang, the government approved a plan to construct $2.5 billion Hon Khoai deepwater port (Ca Mau), with construction due to start in the last quarter of 2016. I wonder where the funds should come from, unless we have discovered a gold mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if the port becomes reality, together with the proposed Kra canal, result in shortening the sea route between Indian Ocean and South China Sea, thing will become very interesting. strategically speaking. a feasibility study was undertaken in 2015 by Bechtel Corp., the largest construction and civil engineering company in America. it is also reported that 85% of Hon Khoai Port will be financed by the US Export-Import Bank (Ex-Im Bank), a US government backed export credit agency. Chinese media reported in May 2015 that China and Thailand had signed a memorandum of understanding to build the Kra Canal for $28 billion.
> 
> bye bye Singapore


Kra Canal , is it real? i heard abt the project from several years before and Thai Gov didn't agree for some reasons , theThai- China agreement is just a fake news

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Kra Canal , is it real? i heard abt the project from several years before and Thai Gov didn't agree for some reasons , theThai- China agreement is just a fake news



I've heard the same thing. Thailand denied that there was any agreement.

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## Carlosa

Latest pic of the land reclamation in Spratly island.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> Kra Canal , is it real? i heard abt the project from several years before and Thai Gov didn't agree for some reasons , theThai- China agreement is just a fake news





Carlosa said:


> I've heard the same thing. Thailand denied that there was any agreement.


He he he true it is just rumour and speculation yet. Too bad. We may wait for the Siamese to do it a bit longer. The plan to build the kra goes back to 17 century.

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## Viet

We talked about China delivery of 105mm artillery in another thread. Interesting to know that in the decisive battle of Dien bien phu, the Viet Minh used all sorts of weapons of all countries if available.






75mm artillery (Japan)







102mm H-6 rocket launcher (China)






K-50 rifle (China), MAS-36 machine gun (France)






ĐKZ-57mm M18 (US)

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## MacanJawa

Viet said:


> I translate the article for the benefit of non-german speakers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *T-90 tanks soon come to Vietnam - a big order under discussion*
> 
> the Daily "Iswestija" reports, Vietnam intends to acquire 100 T-90 tanks. According to Wladimir Rostschupkin, the executive director of Uralwagonsawod, the company that produces the tanks, Vietnam and Russia are currently negotiating on price and quantity. He adds, Vietnam wants special configuration for the tanks.
> 
> Vietnam urgently needs new modern battle tanks. At the moment, the Vietnamese armed forces possess hundreds of Soviet and Chinese made battle tanks. some of tanks have been undergone modernization and upgraded by Israeli specialists. The country previously negotiated with Poland for delivery of T-72 tanks, but the negotiation failed by some reasons.
> 
> Ruslan Puchow, the director of Centrum for Strategic and Technology analysis, urges the russian company to make concession: "the market is highly competitive. Vietnam recently preferred Israeli assault rifles over Kalaschnikow from Russia. Also, France offers weaponry. it is better not to lose Vietnam to our competitors."
> 
> T-90s belong to standard main battle tanks of Russian armed forces. many countries operate T-90 such as Algeria, Aserbaidschan and India. Syria also fields T-90 tanks against terror groups.


Nice

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> We talked about China delivery of 105mm artillery in another thread. Interesting to know that in the decisive battle of Dien bien phu, the Viet Minh used all sorts of weapons of all countries if available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 75mm artillery (Japan)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 102mm H-6 rocket launcher (China)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> K-50 rifle (China), MAS-36 machine gun (France)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ĐKZ-57mm M18 (US)



Modernize those too? lol


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Modernize those too? lol


Yes keeping such ancient weaponry intact, but for military museums


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## Viet

radar guided anti-aircraft weapon system

Still in good shape: 23mm artillery tank ZSU-23-4
quad highspeed guns firing 3,400 rounds a minute against aerial, surface and sea targets.

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## Viet

Repair & Maintenance facility for Su-22 fighter jet

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Yes keeping such ancient weaponry intact, but for military museums



Just troll the Chinese and use it for combat. Tow the antique 105mm behind a scooter wearing clown shoes. Or, if a t-55 is no longer mobile, put that sucker on a truck and drive it into battle with a giant flag that says," YUmadbrolol."



Viet said:


> Repair & Maintenance facility for Su-22 fighter jet



These are comparable to classic cars.


----------



## TenLua

Viet said:


> radar guided anti-aircraft weapon system
> 
> Still in good shape: 23mm artillery tank ZSU-23-4
> quad highspeed guns firing 3,400 rounds a minute against aerial, surface and sea targets.



There are videos of these in action against insurgents in Syria.


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## GS Zhou

TenLua said:


> These are comparable to classic cars.


if you refer to age, yes;
but if you refer to value, NO.

Many people are willing to pay 2~4x of new BMW car prices to get a classic car. But who on earth willing to pay 2~4x of new SU-27/30 prices to get a "classic" Su-22??


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## TenLua

GS Zhou said:


> if you refer to age, yes;
> but if you refer to value, NO.
> 
> Many people are willing to pay 2~4x of new BMW car prices to get a classic car. But who on earth willing to pay 2~4x of new SU-27/30 prices to get a "classic" Su-22??



Neither. I was speaking of function.



GS Zhou said:


> if you refer to age, yes;
> but if you refer to value, NO.
> 
> Many people are willing to pay 2~4x of new BMW car prices to get a classic car. But who on earth willing to pay 2~4x of new SU-27/30 prices to get a "classic" Su-22??



You're Chinese, yes? How would you feel if Vietnam went to war with China, and in the middle of a raging decisive battle, Vietnam rolled out some t-55's that have to be carried by trucks because only the turret and gun work. Despite being a ridiculous and comical sight, it is surprisingly effective. Mounted on these broken tanks are giant flag with a troll face and the question "problem?" written on it.....?


----------



## GS Zhou

TenLua said:


> You're Chinese, yes? How would you feel if Vietnam went to war with China, and in the middle of a raging decisive battle, Vietnam rolled out some t-55's that have to be carried by trucks because only the turret and gun work. Despite being a ridiculous and comical sight, it is surprisingly effective. Mounted on these broken tanks are giant flag with a troll face and the question "problem?" written on it.....



1. Yes, I'm Chinese. Unlike some false flagger that trying to hide the nationality, I report my flag honestly and openly

2. I don't think there will be war between China and Vietnam in the short to medium future. Lots of verbal quarrel between the two, that's for sure, but few chance for a real war.

3. It may be useful in WW2, or in Syria. That's it.


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## Aqsuperman

"Who care if its old? As long as it can go boom, we will keep it". VPA policy on storing equipment's.


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## TenLua

GS Zhou said:


> @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @waz
> sirs, this guy is making trolling and flaming. Will be great if you can take a look and take some actions. Many thanks in advance.



This has everything to do with Vietnamese military. They've got to work with what they've got. Just happens to be defunct tanks piggy backing trucks winning a war. Vietnam do in fact field t-55 tanks so if you're inflame than i think the issue here is you. They've trolled US troops with booby traps. If you want to deny a fact....well, you can't actually deny a fact.

I'm not trolling you though. In our theoretical scenario, Vietnam is trolling China, which does not constitute to me trolling you. Based on general principle, I can't be banned for trolling because technically I'm not.


----------



## GS Zhou

TenLua said:


> This has everything to do with Vietnamese military. They've got to work with what they've got. Just happens to be defunct tanks piggy backing trucks winning a war. Vietnam do in fact field t-55 tanks so if you're inflame than i think the issue here is you. They've trolled US troops with booby traps. If you want to deny a fact....well, you can't actually deny a fact.
> 
> I'm not trolling you though. In our theoretical scenario, Vietnam is trolling China, which does not constitute to me trolling you. Based on general principle, I can't be banned for trolling because technically I'm not.


To discuss the efficiency of the weapon system is one thing. But to put the comment like "drove its troll flag all the way to Beijing", that's another thing. That's trolling. 

I won't respond you furthur on this. I leave the judgement to the admin. team.


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## vtnsx

GS Zhou said:


> 1. Yes, I'm Chinese. Unlike some false flagger that trying to hide the nationality, I report my flag honestly and openly
> 
> 2. I don't think there will be war between China and Vietnam in the short to medium future. Lots of verbal quarrel between the two, that's for sure, but few chance for a real war.
> 
> 3. It may be useful in WW2, or in Syria. That's it.



You're right. This forum is a waste of time.

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## Viet

*Vietnam to launch home-made satellites for earth observation*
By Toan Dao October 14, 2016 | 10:27 am GMT+7




Japan's HTV-4 cargo spacecraft was launched into space, carrying Vietnam’s micro satellite PicoDragon in 2013. Photo from Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology


*The country is working closely with Japan on its plan for four new satellites. *


Vietnam plans to launch four earth observation satellites in the coming years, most of which will be manufactured in the country, the government said in a post on its website on Thursday.

The Vietnam National Satellite Center (VNSC) plans to use a Japan’s Epsilon missile to bring MicroDragon, a 50-kilogram satellite, into orbit in early 2018.

The satellite is developed by VNSC researchers under instruction of professors from a group of Japanese universities. The main missions of MicroDragon are assessing coastal water quality to develop aquaculture and locating living resources. VNSC is scheduled to launch the NanoDragon, weighing six kilograms, in 2019. The earth observation satellite will be in charge of providing support for an automatic system for identifying sea vessels and monitoring of fishing boats.

Two other radar earth observation satellites, the LOTUSat-1 and 2, about 600 kg in weight each, are set to be launched by 2022, the government said. The LOTUSat-1 will be manufactured by Japan with Vietnam's assistance. The other will be manufactured by Vietnamese engineers.

The first remote sensing made-in-Vietnam satellite, the PicoDragon, was successfully launched into space in 2013. The design, manufacturing and test of the earth observation satellite were all done by Vietnam.

Vietnam’s first telecom satellite VINASAT-1 was put into orbit in 2008 and the second telecom satellite VINASAT-2 in 2012. Both are invested by the state-owned group Vietnam Posts and Telecommunications (VNPT). VNSC has sent 36 young engineers to study satellite technology in Japan and established cooperation in training with five Japanese universities.


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## TenLua

vtnsx said:


> You're right. This forum is a waste of time.



Is somebody asking or paying you to be here?



GS Zhou said:


> To discuss the efficiency of the weapon system is one thing. But to put the comment like "drove its troll flag all the way to Beijing", that's another thing. That's trolling.
> 
> I won't respond you furthur on this. I leave the judgement to the admin. team.



That's exactly it. Vietnam is trolling China. I'm not trolling you. What part of that did you not understand?


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## Viet

why going to war? cheaper is going to cinema. How about "Apocalypse Now (1979)" directed by Francis Ford Coppola? one of the best Vietnam movie films of all time. at the end, even all actors went nuts.


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## vtnsx

TenLua said:


> Is somebody asking or paying you to be here?
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly it. Vietnam is trolling China. I'm not trolling you. What part of that did you not understand?



huh? was I talking to you? Take your garbage somewhere else.


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## Aqsuperman

Z131, one of the primary manufacturers of VPA military supplies ranging from equipment to ammunition. Some newest stuff are said to be develop there such PG7-VR antitank round.


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> 2. I don't think there will be war between China and Vietnam in the short to medium future. Lots of verbal quarrel between the two, that's for sure, but few chance for a real war.


Quite frankly, this assumption is true, at least in the next 30-40 years.

Vietnam and China do have intense clashes in the SCS, but the fact is that both countries need the other one for political and geographic influence.


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## Viet

the last royal family of Vietnam

empress Nam Phuong













with her husband: emperor Bao Dai, the last Nguyen ruler


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## Viet

Crown Prince Bao Long

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## TenLua

vtnsx said:


> huh? was I talking to you? Take your garbage somewhere else.



You posted in a public forum where people are free to come and go as they pleased. By posting onto a public forum, you are in fact talking to me. If you weren't talking to me before, you're talking to me now. And I ask you, why do you go out of your way to be here under your own will then say it's a waste of time? I'm sorry if you're too incompetent to find better use of your time. Clearly, not my problem either.



Viet said:


> Crown Prince Bao Long



Do Vietnamese royalties inbreed like Europeans?


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Do Vietnamese royalties inbreed like Europeans?


No, in general such inner family marriage is taboo. The noble families behave in that matter no difference to the common folks. Mam Phuong was born in a rich noble southern Vietnamese family. She went to France to study before meeting her later spouse, the emperor.


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> Quite frankly, this assumption is true, at least in the next 30-40 years.
> 
> Vietnam and China do have intense clashes in the SCS, but the fact is that both countries need the other one for political and geographic influence.



You think so? China have to make a move SOON imo. Vietnam is only going to get stronger.



Viet said:


> No, in general such inner family marriage is taboo. The noble families behave in that matter no difference to the common folks. Mam Phuong was born in a rich noble southern Vietnamese family. She went to France to study before meeting her later spouse, the emperor.



I see. That is good to know. Some of the European royals look like they're the product of severe inbreeding. Not that I have anything against people who are products of such relationship.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> You think so? China have to make a move SOON imo. Vietnam is only going to get stronger.


I think, too, the time window for China is act in the South China Sea is about to close.


TenLua said:


> I see. That is good to know. Some of the European royals look like they're the product of severe inbreeding. Not that I have anything against people who are products of such relationship.


Just some not all. In Europe, royal intermarriage was a common practice of international politics, a means of maintaining harmony and peace between nations. I think that is not necessarily bad. The system had hindered in good times confrontations and wars. The logic was family members don't fight against each other. a system, actually better than what we found in east Asia: the tributary system between China as the center state and heir close neighbors as vassals.

Anyway, our last royal family were better off. They went to exile when the communists took over the power. Unlike the last royal family of Russia, the Romanow. A communist dead squad killed the entire family in a terrible bloodshed.


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## Viet

Built by James Boat Vietnam 

Small high speed patrol vessel, MS-50S class, made of Copolymer Polypropylene Polystone (PPC). I wonder whether the shipyard can build bigger version?


















26 boats to be built in total

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## Viet

Beautiful picture of Japanese coast guard ship KOJIMA to Da Nang last July. I think we should invite all countries that have stakes in South China Sea to Vietnam to have a party. So about 100 countries. To counter the orrogant and aggressive claim of a certain country that lays claim of the sea far from their heartland in order to strangulate Vietnam and other nations.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> I think, too, the time window for China is act in the South China Sea is about to close.
> 
> Just some not all. In Europe, royal intermarriage was a common practice of international politics, a means of maintaining harmony and peace between nations. I think that is not necessarily bad. The system had hindered in good times confrontations and wars. The logic was family members don't fight against each other. a system, actually better than what we found in east Asia: the tributary system between China as the center state and heir close neighbors as vassals.
> 
> Anyway, our last royal family were better off. They went to exile when the communists took over the power. Unlike the last royal family of Russia, the Romanow. A communist dead squad killed the entire family in a terrible bloodshed.



The first rule of politics is be armed; second is to exterminate previous monarchy. unfortunate but their deaths were quick.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> You think so? China have to make a move SOON imo. Vietnam is only going to get stronger.


I do think so, that's also the thought of several inside sources and analysts I've talked to.

Yes, China can act tough and engage in several clashes with Vietnam and Philippines in the SCS. But it has always happened and limited only with "civilian" forces (Marine Surveillance, disguised fish trawlers etc.) and not with direct military forces. 

China needs Vietnam politically and geographically, and vice versa.


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> I do think so, that's also the thought of several inside sources and analysts I've talked to.
> 
> Yes, China can act tough and engage in several clashes with Vietnam and Philippines in the SCS. But it has always happened and limited only with "civilian" forces (Marine Surveillance, disguised fish trawlers etc.) and not with direct military forces.
> 
> China needs Vietnam politically and geographically, and vice versa.



I see where you're coming from. But we're talking about people who wrote the book on wars. Viet Nam just don't have the intelligence capabilities to dig deep into their motives. It's all speculation.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> I see where you're coming from. But we're talking about people who wrote the book on wars. Viet Nam just don't have the intelligence capabilities to dig deep into their motives. It's all speculation.


You mean "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu?

Yes, the Chinese are famous by their deep thinking and disguised meanings, as the old saying "thâm như Tàu" in Vietnamese. However, do not underestimate the military intelligence and equally deep thinking of Vietnamese. You might get a pleasant or unpleasant surprise.

I would repeat my opinion, based on several discussions with certain people, that China and Vietnam will not go to a full-scale war in the next 30-40 years. There will be clashes and confrontation, but they will be limited in local and very small-scale clashes. Both countries have the same root of political ideology (Communism) and share a somewhat common culture base. Vietnam and China are viewed as "brothers" who always quarrel but will stand next to each other when shit hits the fan.

But you are right. It's still speculation, a lot of factors will change the situation.


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> You mean "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu?
> 
> Yes, the Chinese are famous by their deep thinking and disguised meanings, as the old saying "thâm như Tàu" in Vietnamese. However, do not underestimate the military intelligence and equally deep thinking of Vietnamese. You might get a pleasant or unpleasant surprise.
> 
> I would repeat my opinion, based on several discussions with certain people, that China and Vietnam will not go to a full-scale war in the next 30-40 years. There will be clashes and confrontation, but they will be limited in local and very small-scale clashes. Both countries have the same root of political ideology (Communism) and share a somewhat common culture base. Vietnam and China are viewed as "brothers" who always quarrel but will stand next to each other when shit hits the fan.
> 
> But you are right. It's still speculation, a lot of factors will change the situation.



Vietnam exceeding my expectation will always be a pleasant surprise.

You lovingly call the relationship between Viet Nam and China as brothers. That is being too optimistic; I liken it to a fat guy and a skinny guy stuck on an island and there are no food around. One of them will get eaten by the other. The fat guy can sustain the skinny guy longer, but the fat guy can outlast the skinny guy with his fat reserve should they go the distance. It's now day 18 on that island.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Vietnam exceeding my expectation will always be a pleasant surprise.
> 
> You lovingly call the relationship between Viet Nam and China as brothers. That is being too optimistic; I liken it to a fat guy and a skinny guy stuck on an island and there are no food around. One of them will get eaten by the other. The fat guy can sustain the skinny guy longer, but the fat guy can outlast the skinny guy with his fat reserve should they go the distance. It's now day 18 on that island.


He, different points of view 

It's not "lovingly call", it's a simplified way to demonstrate the relationship between Vietnam and China. Of course, the reality is way more complicated than that.

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## Viet

I am less optimistic. Words are cheap. brother or not, common political system or not, that never hinders aggressions. it is better to make our army strong, capable to bring death and destruction, inflicting unsustainable cost to our enemy should a confrontation ever arise. there are reasonable people out there, but also unreasonable ones who dream of fighting a war with zero casualty. the conclusion is made as seen and read in many comments of chinese posters, after they compare the amount of fancy weapons they possess comparing to the primitive ones we have. understandable. in addition, we are not in a military alliance. well, I think it is a perfect scenario, if not an invitation. what they need now is a perfect excuse.

Coast guard on patrol

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> I am less optimistic. Words are cheap. brother or not, common political system or not, that never hinders aggressions. it is better to make our army strong, capable to bring death and destruction, inflicting unsustainable cost to our enemy should a confrontation ever arise. there are reasonable people out there, but also unreasonable ones who dream of fighting a war with zero casualty. the conclusion is made as seen and read in many comments of chinese posters, after they compare the amount of fancy weapons they possess comparing to the primitive ones we have. understandable. in addition, we are not in a military alliance. well, I think it is a perfect scenario, if not an invitation. what they need now is a perfect excuse.
> 
> Coast guard on patrol



What are the sentiments of the uninformed population in Viet Nam though? Do they feel a war coming or business as usual?


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## vtnsx

TenLua said:


> You posted in a public forum where people are free to come and go as they pleased. By posting onto a public forum, you are in fact talking to me. If you weren't talking to me before, you're talking to me now. And I ask you, why do you go out of your way to be here under your own will then say it's a waste of time? I'm sorry if you're too incompetent to find better use of your time. Clearly, not my problem either.
> 
> 
> 
> Do Vietnamese royalties inbreed like Europeans?



LOL, don't you have anything better to write about than arguing with people on the internet? you must have no life. You're free to say whatever you want, so am I. You're wasting my time and your time.


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## dingyibvs

Why the heck would a war be looming? SEA is clearly moving away from the tumultuous aftermath of the end of the colonial era, everyone's focus is on making money now.


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## Aqsuperman

Yeah lets just say its better to have some sort of precautions for everything :v 

Live - exercise with direct fire weapon.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> What are the sentiments of the uninformed population in Viet Nam though? Do they feel a war coming or business as usual?


Most people blame the government for acting "weak", instead of a loud mouth like the Philippines. Some even demands a war which I believe they'd flee the hell away right at the moment it starts.

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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> Most people blame the government for acting "weak",


blame the government for her acting "weak" in diplomatic relationship, haha, just another similarity between China and Vietnam.


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## Viet

dingyibvs said:


> Why the heck would a war be looming? SEA is clearly moving away from the tumultuous aftermath of the end of the colonial era, everyone's focus is on making money now.


war is likely to come if there are brainwashed nationalists out there, regardless of nationalities in the first place, thinking war is a video game. with zero own casualty. it is better for everyone if we all focus our strength and resources to make a better life for everyone, not how to destroy it. as for Viet kieu, there are political dickheads as seen elsewhere but they are in the minority. China is surely a hot topic, but nobody goes so far calling for war. Housten Bellaire Boulevard, in an area where many Viet kieu reside, even street signs are in Vietnamese.


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## William Hung

GS Zhou said:


> blame the government for her acting "weak" in diplomatic relationship, haha, just another similarity between China and Vietnam.



That’s because both countries operate the same way, using their propaganda machine to brainwash and promote nationalism for their own various agenda. Then when s**t happens and the govt inevitably respond in a rational and moderate manner...the brainwashed nationalists gets furious...due to their nationalism that was original infused by the state propaganda machine.


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## Carlosa

*Military Helicopter With 3 on Board Goes Missing in Vietnam*
*http://abcnews.go.com/International...copter-board-missing-vietnam-42873220?ref=yfp
*
A Vietnamese military helicopter with three people on board went missing during a training flight Tuesday, an official and state media said, in the latest in a series of incidents involving military aircraft.

Online newspaper Dan Tri said the Eurocopter EC 130, a light training helicopter produced by Airbus Helicopters, lost contact 15 minutes into the flight and was believed to have crashed into a mountain 80 kilometers (50 miles) east of the southern commercial hub of Ho Chi Minh City.

It said a pilot and two trainees were in the helicopter.

A provincial border guard said smoke was spotted at the suspected crash site, but rescuers have not been able to reach the spot.

Three crashes involving military planes that killed 11 people have been reported over past four months.

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## Hindustani78

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...other-helicopter-drops-off-radar_1941193.html

Last Updated: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - 16:27
HANOI; Vietnam`s prime minister ordered the military to launch a rescue mission after a helicopter went missing on Tuesday during a training flight, the government said, in the latest in a series of aviation setbacks.

The Airbus EC 130 T2 helicopter was carrying an instructor and two trainee pilots when it disappeared off radar screens in southern Ba Ria-Vung Tau province, the government said on its website.

The defence ministry issued a statement but did not indicate whether those aboard were military or civilian.

Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc instructed the military to find the victims and review procedures to ensure safety and asked rescue units and provincial staffs to help.

The incident comes after a succession of deadly accidents involving military planes and helicopters, at a time when Vietnam is adding to its shopping list as part of its biggest military buildup since the Vietnam War.

*Defence experts and arms firms say the country is on the lookout for anything from fighter jets and helicopters to surveillance planes, radar and surface-to-air missiles.*

The air force lost two fighter jets, in June and August. After the earlier crash, a CASA 212 coastguard plane hunting for the pilot and wreckage of a Russian-made Sukhoi SU-30 went down in bad weather, killing all nine people aboard. 

It has also had two helicopters crashes since July 2014, killing more than 20 people.


Reuters

First Published: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 - 16:27


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> war is likely to come if there are brainwashed nationalists out there, regardless of nationalities in the first place, thinking war is a video game. with zero own casualty. it is better for everyone if we all focus our strength and resources to make a better life for everyone, not how to destroy it. as for Viet kieu, there are political dickheads as seen elsewhere but they are in the minority. China is surely a hot topic, but nobody goes so far calling for war. Housten Bellaire Boulevard, in an area where many Viet kieu reside, even street signs are in Vietnamese.
> 
> View attachment 344481


The Chinese government is very rational,otherwise you can imagine if the government listen to the so called "people's voice",Japan would be the first one to vanish.


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> blame the government for her acting "weak" in diplomatic relationship, haha, just another similarity between China and Vietnam.


Hehe, I heard that many Chinese blame the government for acting weak against Vietnam.

Same thing happens here, and we also get the Philippines as a "role model".


----------



## Carlosa

*Vietnam recovers bodies of 3 crew on crashed helicopter*




October 19, 2016


HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — Rescuers have recovered the bodies of three military personnel on a helicopter that crashed into a mountain during a training flight in southern Vietnam in the latest in a series of accidents involving the military aircraft.

Hundreds of soldiers, militiamen and forest rangers were mobilized for search in Ba Ria Vung Tau province, said a local military officer, who declined to be named.

The Eurocopter EC 130 lost contact shortly after taking off Tuesday, the military said in a statement, adding a pilot and two trainees were in the helicopter.

Three crashes involving military planes that killed 11 people have been reported in the last four months.


----------



## Carlosa

*Vietnam gives thumbs-up to U.S. regional role as pivot stumbles *

http://tuoitrenews.vn/politics/37608/vietnam-gives-thumbsup-to-us-regional-role-as-pivot-stumbles

REUTERS/TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 10/19/2016 08:49 GMT + 7

U.S. President Barack Obama shakes hands with Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang after an arrival ceremony at the presidential palace in Hanoi, Vietnam May 23, 2016.





*Vietnam supports U.S. "intervention" in the Asia-Pacific if it helps keep peace and stability, the defense ministry said, in a timely endorsement of a continued U.S. presence amid uncertainty over Washington's faltering "pivot".*

Vice defense minister, Senior Lieutenant-General Nguyen Chi Vinh, met on Monday with Cara Abercrombie, the U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for South and Southeast Asia, and told her Vietnam backed a positive U.S. role.

The general's words of support, conveyed by the defense ministry, come when the United States most needs them, with its "rebalance" - aimed at boosting its Asian foothold and tempering China's rise - now under strain in the run-up to a U.S. presidential election.

Vinh "affirmed that Vietnam will support the U.S and other partners to intervene in the region as long as it brings peace, stability and prosperity", it said in a statement.

At the dialogue, Abercrombie said the United States would not change its rebalance strategy, the statement added.

Uncertainty lingers in Asia over changes ahead at the White House and whether a new leadership would give less priority to keeping China in check as it grows increasingly assertive in the East Vietnam Sea, a waterway vital to global trade.

Washington's traditional defense alliances in Southeast Asia are currently being tested, with ties with Thailand frosty since a 2014 coup and questions about the future of a tight military relationship with the Philippines under volatile new President Rodrigo Duterte, a staunch U.S. critic.

Relations between the United States and Vietnam, in contrast, have warmed substantially in the past two years, much to do with jitters over the East Vietnam Sea to which Hanoi has disputes with Beijing.

The latest affirmation of those ties came after the full lifting of a U.S. lethal arms embargo on Vietnam in May, allowing closer defense links and some joint military exercises between the former enemies.

Two U.S. warships earlier this month made a call at a new international port built at Vietnam's strategic Cam Ranh Bay in a brief but symbolic return for U.S. combat vessels.

The U.S. ambassador to Vietnam last week admitted the U.S. dynamism once seen in the region had "a little bit diminished", but said there was still appetite for U.S. involvement.

Ted Osius also said a dramatic change in U.S.-Vietnam ties was "not about to happen" because of Philippine leader Duterte's outreach toward China.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam recovers bodies of 3 crew on crashed helicopter*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> October 19, 2016
> 
> 
> HANOI, Vietnam (AP) — Rescuers have recovered the bodies of three military personnel on a helicopter that crashed into a mountain during a training flight in southern Vietnam in the latest in a series of accidents involving the military aircraft.
> 
> Hundreds of soldiers, militiamen and forest rangers were mobilized for search in Ba Ria Vung Tau province, said a local military officer, who declined to be named.
> 
> The Eurocopter EC 130 lost contact shortly after taking off Tuesday, the military said in a statement, adding a pilot and two trainees were in the helicopter.
> 
> Three crashes involving military planes that killed 11 people have been reported in the last four months.


another bad day for the army 

thanks to tension, a special thank to China, with the increase of frequency of trainings, I´m afraid the death toll will crease to mount, although I won´t expect the death toll would never reach as high as German airforce with Lockheed F-104 „Starfighter“. in total 269 fighter jets crashed, killing 116 pilots before the jets were sent to retirement.









a good news

in the series of seaports: Lach Huyen port (Haiphong)

a big thank to the country of rising sun, Japan for $781 million ODA loans. The port will be operational by May 2018. besides sending thanks to the domestic and South Korean investors for $13 billion for infrastructures in real estates, hotels, resorts, entertainment complex, solar power plant, factories, etc.

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## Viet

*Canadian warship pays goodwill visit to Vietnam*
By Quoc Thang, Tan Nguyen 
October 18, 2016 | 04:51 pm GMT+7






Halifax-class frigate HCMS Vancouver of Royal Canadian Navy arrives at Saigon Port, HCMC. Photo by VnExpress/Quoc Thang


*The two navies will be discussing defense ties during the frigate's visit.*

The Canadian Navy's HMCS Vancouver docked at Saigon Port in Ho Chi Minh City today to conduct a goodwill visit as part of WESTPLOY 16.

WESTPLOY16 part of the frigate's deployment aimed at building stronger ties between the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) and navies in Asia-Pacific countries, while also promoting peace and security in the region, said a statement from the RCN.

Commodore Jeff Zwick, commander of Canada’s Pacific Fleet, confirmed that talks will be held on national defense between Canada and Vietnam during the visit. After that, the ship will continue on to several other countries in the Asia-Pacific region before returning to Esquimalt, British Columbia, at the end of the year.






Vietnam People's Navy officers welcome their Canadian guests. Photo by VnExpress/Quoc Thang


Since its departure from Esquimalt in June, the Canadian Halifax-class frigate has operated extensively throughout the Pacific region, and participated in international maritime exercises such as RIMPAC and KAKADU.

KAKADU, held through September 12-24, 2016, is a joint, biennial exercise hosted by the Royal Australian Navy and supported by the Royal Australian Air Force, with 20 nations participating, including Vietnam.

Vietnam has frequently welcomed warships from other countries, including the U.S., Japan, India, Australia and France. Earlier this month, the guided missile destroyer, the USS John S. McCain, arrived in Vietnam following its first visit in 2014 for naval exercises, seeking to reinforce military ties.

In April, two Japanese guided-missile destroyers made port at Cam Ranh Bay Port, Vietnam’s new international port. In July, the coast guard ship Kojima also arrived in Da Nang for a five-day visit.

Prior to the trip of President Francois Hollande in September, France also sent its amphibious assault ship the Tonnerre to Cam Ranh Bay on a friendly visit.

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> *Canadian warship pays goodwill visit to Vietnam*
> By Quoc Thang, Tan Nguyen
> October 18, 2016 | 04:51 pm GMT+7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Halifax-class frigate HCMS Vancouver of Royal Canadian Navy arrives at Saigon Port, HCMC. Photo by VnExpress/Quoc Thang
> 
> 
> *The two navies will be discussing defense ties during the frigate's visit.*
> 
> The Canadian Navy's HMCS Vancouver docked at Saigon Port in Ho Chi Minh City today to conduct a goodwill visit as part of WESTPLOY 16.
> 
> WESTPLOY16 part of the frigate's deployment aimed at building stronger ties between the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) and navies in Asia-Pacific countries, while also promoting peace and security in the region, said a statement from the RCN.
> 
> Commodore Jeff Zwick, commander of Canada’s Pacific Fleet, confirmed that talks will be held on national defense between Canada and Vietnam during the visit. After that, the ship will continue on to several other countries in the Asia-Pacific region before returning to Esquimalt, British Columbia, at the end of the year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam People's Navy officers welcome their Canadian guests. Photo by VnExpress/Quoc Thang
> 
> 
> Since its departure from Esquimalt in June, the Canadian Halifax-class frigate has operated extensively throughout the Pacific region, and participated in international maritime exercises such as RIMPAC and KAKADU.
> 
> KAKADU, held through September 12-24, 2016, is a joint, biennial exercise hosted by the Royal Australian Navy and supported by the Royal Australian Air Force, with 20 nations participating, including Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam has frequently welcomed warships from other countries, including the U.S., Japan, India, Australia and France. Earlier this month, the guided missile destroyer, the USS John S. McCain, arrived in Vietnam following its first visit in 2014 for naval exercises, seeking to reinforce military ties.
> 
> In April, two Japanese guided-missile destroyers made port at Cam Ranh Bay Port, Vietnam’s new international port. In July, the coast guard ship Kojima also arrived in Da Nang for a five-day visit.
> 
> Prior to the trip of President Francois Hollande in September, France also sent its amphibious assault ship the Tonnerre to Cam Ranh Bay on a friendly visit.



That's the only Canadian warship we have. Canadian military is so small.


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## lonelyman

Vietnam is betting on the wrong side of history again like she did in the past by aligning with soviets during the cold war.



Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam gives thumbs-up to U.S. regional role as pivot stumbles *
> 
> http://tuoitrenews.vn/politics/37608/vietnam-gives-thumbsup-to-us-regional-role-as-pivot-stumbles
> 
> REUTERS/TUOI TRE NEWS
> 
> UPDATED : 10/19/2016 08:49 GMT + 7
> 
> U.S. President Barack Obama shakes hands with Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang after an arrival ceremony at the presidential palace in Hanoi, Vietnam May 23, 2016.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnam supports U.S. "intervention" in the Asia-Pacific if it helps keep peace and stability, the defense ministry said, in a timely endorsement of a continued U.S. presence amid uncertainty over Washington's faltering "pivot".*
> 
> Vice defense minister, Senior Lieutenant-General Nguyen Chi Vinh, met on Monday with Cara Abercrombie, the U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for South and Southeast Asia, and told her Vietnam backed a positive U.S. role.
> 
> The general's words of support, conveyed by the defense ministry, come when the United States most needs them, with its "rebalance" - aimed at boosting its Asian foothold and tempering China's rise - now under strain in the run-up to a U.S. presidential election.
> 
> Vinh "affirmed that Vietnam will support the U.S and other partners to intervene in the region as long as it brings peace, stability and prosperity", it said in a statement.
> 
> At the dialogue, Abercrombie said the United States would not change its rebalance strategy, the statement added.
> 
> Uncertainty lingers in Asia over changes ahead at the White House and whether a new leadership would give less priority to keeping China in check as it grows increasingly assertive in the East Vietnam Sea, a waterway vital to global trade.
> 
> Washington's traditional defense alliances in Southeast Asia are currently being tested, with ties with Thailand frosty since a 2014 coup and questions about the future of a tight military relationship with the Philippines under volatile new President Rodrigo Duterte, a staunch U.S. critic.
> 
> Relations between the United States and Vietnam, in contrast, have warmed substantially in the past two years, much to do with jitters over the East Vietnam Sea to which Hanoi has disputes with Beijing.
> 
> The latest affirmation of those ties came after the full lifting of a U.S. lethal arms embargo on Vietnam in May, allowing closer defense links and some joint military exercises between the former enemies.
> 
> Two U.S. warships earlier this month made a call at a new international port built at Vietnam's strategic Cam Ranh Bay in a brief but symbolic return for U.S. combat vessels.
> 
> The U.S. ambassador to Vietnam last week admitted the U.S. dynamism once seen in the region had "a little bit diminished", but said there was still appetite for U.S. involvement.
> 
> Ted Osius also said a dramatic change in U.S.-Vietnam ties was "not about to happen" because of Philippine leader Duterte's outreach toward China.


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## Viet

lonelyman said:


> Vietnam is betting on the wrong side of history again like she did in the past by aligning with soviets during the cold war.


I'm not a politician but believe if China drops the 9 dash line then we can talk on everything.

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## Nilgiri

vtnsx said:


> That's the only Canadian warship we have. Canadian military is so small.



Actually there are 12 frigates of this class (Halifax) in active service with Canadian navy. Also there are 4 Victoria class subs (notorious UK retired subs).

There is just one destroyer (DDG HMCS Athabaskan) left in the iroquois class however.

Canada will be a frigate only surface warship force quite shortly (Athabaskan will be retired coming spring I heard).

A far cry from the heyday of post WW2 and early cold war.


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> That's the only Canadian warship we have. Canadian military is so small.


Really? If the only warship is far from home, who defends Canada?

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Really? If the only warship is far from home, who defends Canada?



Read above 

But yes we have the smallest military per land/water size anyway. But we are part of NATO so its not a huge issue.

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## vtnsx

Nilgiri said:


> Read above
> 
> But yes we have the smallest military per land/water size anyway. But we are part of NATO so its not a huge issue.



I meant one destroyer. LOL that's all. Could you imagine, one fricken destroyer. hahaha

I think the closest help Canada can get is from the US and UK, and maybe France.

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## Nilgiri

vtnsx said:


> I meant one destroyer. LOL that's all. Could you imagine, one fricken destroyer. hahaha
> 
> I think the closest help Canada can get is from the US and UK, and maybe France.



Yah well this one is that not that one destroyer (about to be retired). It is one of 12 frigates 

Canada's primary role in NATO structure is marine supply chain ASW, aerial supply chain protection + refuelling and NORAD monitoring. Destroyers are legacy of cold war for Canada. The situation has changed now with the mass incorporation of AEGIS equipped arleigh burke in USN from the late 80s onwards which they pumped out way beyond NATO requirements it can be argued given the sudden end of cold war....but maybe not so now given rise of China and also resurgence of Russia militarily.

In any case for Canada's role within NATO, frigates are more than enough.


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## cochine

*Canadian warship pays goodwill visit to Vietnam*
By Quoc Thang, Tan Nguyen October 18, 2016 | 04:51 pm GMT+7





Halifax-class frigate HCMS Vancouver of Royal Canadian Navy arrives at Saigon Port, HCMC. Photo by VnExpress/Quoc Thang

*The two navies will be discussing defense ties during the frigate's visit.*
The Canadian Navy's HMCS Vancouver docked at Saigon Port in Ho Chi Minh City today to conduct a goodwill visit as part of WESTPLOY 16.

WESTPLOY16 part of the frigate's deployment aimed at building stronger ties between the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) and navies in Asia-Pacific countries, while also promoting peace and security in the region, said a statement from the RCN.

Commodore Jeff Zwick, commander of Canada’s Pacific Fleet, confirmed that talks will be held on national defense between Canada and Vietnam during the visit. After that, the ship will continue on to several other countries in the Asia-Pacific region before returning to Esquimalt, British Columbia, at the end of the year.

Since its departure from Esquimalt in June, the Canadian Halifax-class frigate has operated extensively throughout the Pacific region, and participated in international maritime exercises such as RIMPAC and KAKADU.

KAKADU, held through September 12-24, 2016, is a joint, biennial exercise hosted by the Royal Australian Navy and supported by the Royal Australian Air Force, with 20 nations participating, including Vietnam.

Vietnam has frequently welcomed warships from other countries, including the U.S., Japan, India, Australia and France. Earlier this month, the guided missile destroyer, the USS John S. McCain, arrived in Vietnam following its first visit in 2014 for naval exercises, seeking to reinforce military ties.

In April, two Japanese guided-missile destroyers made port at Cam Ranh Bay Port, Vietnam’s new international port. In July, the coast guard ship Kojima also arrived in Da Nang for a five-day visit.

Prior to the trip of President Francois Hollande in September, France also sent its amphibious assault ship the Tonnerre to Cam Ranh Bay on a friendly visit.

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/canadian-warship-pays-goodwill-visit-to-vietnam-3485627.html


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> I meant one destroyer. LOL that's all. Could you imagine, one fricken destroyer. hahaha
> 
> I think the closest help Canada can get is from the US and UK, and maybe France.


How is it possible for a huge country as Canada operating a such small fleet?


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> How is it possible for a huge country as Canada operating a such small fleet?



Canada is a peace keeping nation. But I know what you mean. It is weird this is why I think Canada might lose the country if Uncle Sam and Uncle Kevin cannot defend themselves from Russian and Chinese invasion.


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## TenLua

vtnsx said:


> LOL, don't you have anything better to write about than arguing with people on the internet? you must have no life. You're free to say whatever you want, so am I. You're wasting my time and your time.



A guy who is forcing himself to be here although he's miserable, is telling me I have no life....get the *** off my planet.


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> How is it possible for a huge country as Canada operating a such small fleet?



Because of population density and overall size of NATO. NATO is really one military shared by its member countries.

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## Viet

Just in the news. Three Chinese warships will visit Camranh bay on Saturday. That will be an interesting event.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-warships-to-dock-in-vietnam-1476878216

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## TenLua

vtnsx said:


> Canada is a peace keeping nation. But I know what you mean. It is weird this is why I think Canada might lose the country if Uncle Sam and Uncle Kevin cannot defend themselves from Russian and Chinese invasion.



Canada and military do not belong in the same sentence.



Viet said:


> Just in the news. Three Chinese warships will visit Camranh bay on Saturday. That will be an interesting event.
> 
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-warships-to-dock-in-vietnam-1476878216



Sinking it will make things A LOT more interesting.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Sinking it will make things A LOT more interesting.


No way. We are not at war. I think we invite them to a bowl of hot pho

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> No way. We are not at war. I think we invite them to a bowl of hot pho



Saigon style pho or Hanoi style?

It makes all the difference!


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## vtnsx

Nilgiri said:


> Saigon style pho or Hanoi style?
> 
> It makes all the difference!


 
Saigon Pho

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## dingyibvs

Nilgiri said:


> Read above
> 
> But yes we have the smallest military per land/water size anyway. But we are part of NATO so its not a huge issue.



Unless Trump wins, then it'll be an issue!


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## Nilgiri

dingyibvs said:


> Unless Trump wins, then it'll be an issue!



Canada does reasonably level paying into NATO. The laggers in that department would have to be the ones really worried.


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## dingyibvs

Nilgiri said:


> Canada does reasonably level paying into NATO. The laggers in that department would have to be the ones really worried.



With a defense budget of about 1% of GDP, Canada is in fact one of the worst.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-defence-spending-1.3664272


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## Nilgiri

dingyibvs said:


> With a defense budget of about 1% of GDP, Canada is in fact one of the worst.
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-defence-spending-1.3664272



Good time to crack the whip then.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> How is it possible for a huge country as Canada operating a such small fleet?


They're too nice for anyone to attack

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## GS Zhou

*Chinese Warships to Dock in Vietnam
*
HANOI—*Three Chinese warships will dock Saturday at Vietnam’s strategic naval base at Cam Ranh Bay*, three weeks after two U.S. naval vessels docked there for the first time since former wartime foes Hanoi and Washington normalized relations 21 years ago.

Vietnam has recently made the Cam Ranh Bay base available to visiting foreign naval vessels in an attempt to maintain a strong international presence in the South China Sea amid maritime disputes with China. Beijing has claimed nearly all the strategic waterway, conflicting with claims by Vietnam and other nations including Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei.

*The Chinese warships with 750 sailors on board will visit the base for four days, during which time they will hold exchange activities with Vietnamese navy sailors,* Vietnamese state media reported Wednesday, citing the Department of Foreign Affairs of Khanh Hoa province, where the base is located.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-warships-to-dock-in-vietnam-1476878216

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## Viet

only here on PDF, and only here in VN military thread. has anyone ever asked why Philippines´ Durtete dumps America and embraces China?

a picture shows the Philippines Airlines plane carrying Durtete and his close circle on the trip to Vietnam last September. Guess who is the most important man/women to Durtete, the most influential person to him?

No, it is not the guy with dark sunglass, and sunshine is hardly visible in the plane 

Neither the beauty sitting in the front 

It is the guy behind her: the Special Assistant to the President Christopher "Bong" Go. in dark blue jacket with a sticker. if anyone who serves Duterte longest and closest, it is him, a grandson of a close friend of Duterte. nobody goes to Duterte without passing through Go. his name is Go, but it is a No-Go. at least for America.

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## Viet

Vietnam made medium range UHF acquisition radar VRS-2DM, based upon Soviet P-19 radar, especially designed to detect low flying targets. range 250km. first recruits are trained to operate the system.

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## Silent Knight

@GS Zhou 

Do you know which Chinese warships will visit Vietnam tomorrow? I couldn't find any information, except they from the East Sea Fleet and not South Sea Fleet.

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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> @GS Zhou
> 
> Do you know which Chinese warships will visit Vietnam tomorrow? I couldn't find any information, except they from the East Sea Fleet and not South Sea Fleet.



I guess two 054A frigates (529 Zhoushan, and 531 Xiangtan), and one Type 903 replenishment ship (890 Chaohu), will make the visit.

The three ships are on their way back to China, after they completed their Anti-Piracy duties in the Gulf of Aden. They just made a visit to Cambodia, and I guess Vietnam is the next destination.

Hope helpful.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I guess two 054A frigates (529 Zhoushan, and 531 Xiangtan), and one Type 903 replenishment ship (890 Chaohu), will make the visit.
> 
> The three ships are on their way back to China, after they completed their Anti-Piracy duties in the Gulf of Aden. They just made a visit to Cambodia, and I guess Vietnam is the next destination.
> 
> Hope helpful.


Please feel free posting pictures of Chinese warships here. I will do the same if pictures become available on viet media. Hopefully Chinese ship commanders allow visitors on board, making sightseeing tours. In doing so the viet people can enjoy and wildness how China makes great advances in warship building


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## Viet

Haven't heard any recent news of the sailship "Le Quy Don". Is the ship anywhere on a training voyage at sea?

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Haven't heard any recent news of the sailship "Le Quy Don". Is the ship anywhere on a training voyage at sea?



LOL Put some Brahmos on that for shits and giggles.


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## Aqsuperman

For a sailing vessel, this is more than enough lol :v

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## Viet

*Meet the creator of Vietnam’s steel-piercing bullet*

TUOI TRE NEWS
UPDATED : 10/22/2016








*The first steel-piercing bullet to be developed in Vietnam is ready for mass production after being designed by a military technology official and his team.*

The country’s first steel-piercing bullet, measuring 7.62x54 millimeters, was developed by Captain Mai Thanh Uyen, deputy head of the technical department of Z113 Factory, managed by the General Department of Defense Industry under the Ministry of General Defense.

A graduating of the University of Technology in the northern province of Thai Nguyen, Capt. Uyen previously worked for a joint venture between Vietnam and Japan in the northern Hai Phong City.

Capt. Uyen began work in the northern province of Tuyen Quang at the Z113 Factory in April 2004, choosing the factory to be close to his parents and friends who also worked there.

Over the past 12 years, Uyen, 38, has directed a total of six research projects and participated in 20 other initiatives at the facility, one of which was to develop a steel-piercing shell.

The high cost of developing the ammunition, along with Russia’s decision to cease providing their assistance on the project, left Uyen and his nine-man team to come up with a new design on their own.

Meeting the specifications for the K53 pistol the bullet is meant to be used with was just one of the significant hurdles met by the team, alongside securing the steel armor needed to test the bullets.

Due to complication procedures and high production cost, Uyen only managed acquire four pieces of the material, with each able to endure only five test shots each

To cope with these obstacles, the team opted to use CT3 steel plate and increase the range for the test shootings as a less expensive alternative.

Meeting the specifications of the K53 pistol was one of the key requirements for developing the bullet.

“The ammunition also needs to meet standardized specifications for all shells, including pressure, repetition, and more,” Uyen elaborated.

Following a series of examinations and evaluations, the bullet was finally approved for mass production by the Ministry of National Defense.

Uyen is also on a team researching the development of a 7.62x39 millimeters armor-piercing shell for the AK pistol.

“I prefer this project because it’s more challenging. The ammunition is expected to be manufactured in the near future,” according to the officer.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> LOL Put some Brahmos on that for shits and giggles.


too aggressive. the sailship is used to train cadets.

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## Viet

weird, no pictures of three chinese warships visiting Camranh bay have been published yet. maybe later. after being cencored  anyway here again the picttures of India warships NS Kirch and Satpura at last visit to the bay harbour.

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## Aqsuperman

You can find lots of stuff just by wondering around. Here are pictures of V-100, a captured Vietnam War era vehicle that is usually employed on local town fielding exercise. Not really as popular as the M113 though

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## Viet

I think the Marines will be the first that get 7.62x54 millimeters armor piercing rounds.


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## Viet

Inducted into service since Vietnam war, standard artillery of the Marine Corps: 

ZIS-2 76,2 mm






ZIS-3 85 mm






Let's go!

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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> Inducted into service since Vietnam war, standard artillery of the Marine Corps:
> 
> ZIS-2 76,2 mm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZIS-3 85 mm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's go!



The blue camouflage looks ridiculous, to be honestly. Why the Vietnamese marines adopted it?


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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> The blue camouflage looks ridiculous, to be honestly. Why the Vietnamese marines adopted it?


LOL you don´t like blue, do you?
look at what they wear: training helmet, like these soldiers below, they have a normal working or training uniform.






maybe @Silent Knight can confirm.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> I think the Marines will be the first that get 7.62x54 millimeters armor piercing rounds.



Those soldiers need to be fed. It's good that they're small too; low profile decreases the chance of being hit significantly compared to a 1.88m 100kg soldier.


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## TaiShang

*Chinese naval fleet visits Vietnam to boost naval ties*
(Xinhua) October 23, 2016

A Chinese naval fleet *arrived in Cam Ranh Port in central Vietnam on Saturday for a five-day visit to the country to promote military ties between the two sides.*

The 23rd Chinese naval escort task force comprises Xiangtan, Zhoushan and Chaohu of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy.

*The visit to Vietnam is the last stop of the fleet on their way home after completing escort missions in the Gulf of Aden, the waters off Somali and visiting Myanmar, Malaysia and Cambodia,* said Senior Colonel Wang Hongli, commander of the task force, while addressing the media.

The PLA Navy and the Vietnam Navy have strengthened communication and cooperation in recent years. *Till now, the two navies have held joint patrols in Beibu Bay for 20 times*, under which joint exercises and ship mutual visits, among others, were conducted, Wang said.

"This visit will enhance mutual understanding and promote friendship, thus contributing to bilateral relationship at the government and military levels," said Wang, adding that mutual visit and football match will be held in the following days.

Chinese naval fleets have visited Vietnam several times since 2001. However,* this is the first time for the Chinese naval fleet to visit Cam Ranh Port after it was opened as an international port in March this year.*


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> I think the Marines will be the first that get 7.62x54 millimeters armor piercing rounds.



I think they will use 7.62x51mm NATO round instead since its compatible with our Galatz. 



Barmaley said:


> The blue camouflage looks ridiculous, to be honestly. Why the Vietnamese marines adopted it?



Yeah, i kind of wonder what with that flashy uniform, but then i think that its some kind of practice only stuff ? I do find plenty of pictures of normal Woodland uniform and those blue - ish above at the same time though


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## Viet

Photo taken on Oct. 22, 2016 shows the supply ship Chaohu arriving at Cam Ranh port, Vietnam, Oct. 22, 2016. A Chinese naval fleet arrived in Cam Ranh Port in central Vietnam on Saturday for a five-day visit to the country to promote military ties between the two sides. [Xinhua]


*China publishes book on Vietnamese general Nguyen Son*

Last update: 19:09 | 21/10/2016

_A Chinese book on Nguyen Son, a general of both Vietnam and China, made debut at a discussion in Beijing on October 21. _






The book “Our Father Hongshui-Ruanshan” (Photo: VNA)


The 400-page book “Our Father Hongshui-Ruanshan” was written by Chen Hanfeng and Nguyen Thanh Ha, the Chinese and Vietnamese children of the general. Nguyen Son is pronounced Ruanshan in Chinese, and his Chinese name is Hongshui. 

It features 15 chapters looking back at revolutionary activities of the General in China and Vietnam, from the time he followed the call of Nguyen Ai Quoc (Ho Chi Minh) to enroll in a special political training course in China’s Guangzhou and the Huangpu military school, then took part in China’s Long March, until when he returned to Vietnam and served as head of the resistance committees of the southern and the southern central regions, and Chief of the Defence Ministry’s General Staff. 

At the discussion, Vietnamese Ambassador to China Dang Minh Khoi said the book’s publication coincides with the General’s 60th death anniversary (October 21, 1956) and 80 years since the end of the Long March in China. 

It is also part of a series of books published in the programme “Hongse Nianlun” (Red Annual Ring) of the Chinese State. That demonstrates the respect the Party and State of China give to Nguyen Son for his contributions to the country’s revolution, Khoi said. 

“Our Father Hongshui-Ruanshan” is about a talented general who had a wide knowledge and practical experience. He was also a founder of Kangdi bao (Resistance News), the predecessor of the People’s Daily, said Huang Xiaoxin, Secretary of the Party Committee of the China Press and Publication Research Institute. 

*I*n an article published on the People’s Daily, Party General Secretary and President of China Xi Jinping said Nguyen Son devoted himself to the revolution of China. He took part in the *25,000-mile Long March* and became the only foreign general of the new China during the first days of the country. 

He was also among the few who are appointed generals of two countries at the same time in the world, Xi wrote on the occasion of his State visit to Vietnam last November.-_VNA_

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Please feel free posting pictures of Chinese warships here. I will do the same if pictures become available on viet media. Hopefully Chinese ship commanders allow visitors on board, making sightseeing tours. In doing so the viet people can enjoy and wildness how China makes great advances in warship building


Pictures from the China Ministry of Defense.

PLA Navy's two 054A frigates (529 Zhoushan, and 531 Xiangtan), one Type 903 replenishment ship (890 Chaohu) in a Five-Day visit in Vietnam.

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## GS Zhou

Two more pictures found

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## yusheng



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## cnleio

yusheng said:


> View attachment 345895
> View attachment 345896
> View attachment 345897
> View attachment 345898
> View attachment 345899
> View attachment 345900


当地时间22日上午，第二十三批护航编队抵达金兰港，开始对越南进行为期5天的友好访问。越南金兰港是该编队访问的第四站，也是最后一站。
 2016.10.22 It's 1st time in the history of Sino-Vietnam relationship, China PLAN 2x type054A warships visiting Vietnam cam ranh bay.

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## Viet

yusheng said:


> View attachment 345895
> View attachment 345896
> View attachment 345897
> View attachment 345898
> View attachment 345899
> View attachment 345900


not too bad. our navy seriously needs more surface warships.
I haven´t seen any pictures showing command centre of the frigates. would be nice to get a glimpse on


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> not too bad. our navy seriously needs more surface warships.
> I haven´t seen any pictures showing command centre of the frigates. would be nice to get a glimpse on


No offense. But given the small budget size of the VN military force, as well as the limited manufacturing industry capabilities of your country, large surface warships are too expensive to Vietnam to afford.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> No offense. But given the small budget size of the VN military force, as well as the limited manufacturing industry capabilities of your country, large surface warships are too expensive to Vietnam to afford.


it is not going to happen tomorrow. nor after tomorrow. it is for the long run. Vietnam can try to copy the success of the Koreans. they started from zero, didn´t they? Korea is smaller in size and population than Vietnam. don´t forget they were much poorer than Vietnam today.

Launch of a new ship of Vinashin shipyard


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> it is not going to happen tomorrow. nor after tomorrow. it is for the long run. Vietnam can try to copy the success of the Koreans. they started from zero, didn´t they? Korea is smaller in size and population than Vietnam. don´t forget they were much poorer than Vietnam today.
> 
> Launch of a new ship of Vinashin shipyard


tomorrow is a beatiful word, because everything is possible in tomorrow. but just dont know how far your key opponent could go in tomorrow.

stick to topic. what is this vessel? how large? built by whom? thanks.


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## Gunfu

The problem with Vietnam is communist economy. China has capitalistic economy.
If Vietnam swaps communist economy with Chinese capitalism. Vietnam would become very rich.

South Korea has capitalist economy.
North Korea has communist economy.

At least China understands that communist economy does not work. 
So China use American capitalism.







So lets sum this up.
China has capitalist economy with communist rule.
Vietnam has communist economy with communist rule.


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## Silent Knight

Gunfu said:


> ...


Not exactly.

Vietnam has abandoned the "communism" economy with the "Đổi mới" (Reform) in 1986. It's goal is a socialist-oriented market economy. Now we're more like a capitalist economy under socialist banner. The Communism is an ideology and is not really related to our current economic.

Stick to the topic.





Also huge thanks to @GS Zhou for the name of 3 warships visiting Cam Ranh. Unfortunately I asked you the question and totally forgot about it until today

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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> Also huge thanks to @GS Zhou for the name of 3 warships visiting Cam Ranh. Unfortunately I asked you the question and totally forgot about it until today


no problem bro


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## Nilgiri

Silent Knight said:


> Not exactly.
> 
> Vietnam has abandoned the "communism" economy with the "Đổi mới" (Reform) in 1986. It's goal is a socialist-oriented market economy. Now we're more like a capitalist economy under socialist banner. The Communism is an ideology and is not really related to our current economic.
> 
> Stick to the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also huge thanks to @GS Zhou for the name of 3 warships visiting Cam Ranh. Unfortunately I asked you the question and totally forgot about it until today



Great video!


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> tomorrow is a beatiful word, because everything is possible in tomorrow. but just dont know how far your key opponent could go in tomorrow.
> 
> stick to topic. what is this vessel? how large? built by whom? thanks.


it is one of many ships that is built by the domestic shipbuilder Sbic. Vietnam can build various types of commercial vessels.

logistic fishery vessel (13,000 DWT)






carrier (4,900 cars)






storage vessel






ethylen transport vessel







Container vessel







bulk vessel







multiple purpose transport vessel







Bulk carrier (24,000 DWT)











rescue vessel 2x 1300HP







tourist vessel





highspeed vessel Fcs 5009






tug boat

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## Aqsuperman

In pure communist economy, there is no such thing as personal wealth which is more than common in Vietnam now. We have abandon the fixed structure and follow a more flexible system more than 2 decades so the problem not lies at the political aspect of the system itself. And its obvious that the current capitalism is way different from the capitalism of the 1920s.

Relying purely on political system to judge the success of the economy and offering Youtube clips made by people that only desire view are not really convincing, i can even offer you clips with proof that the US government is actually dictatorship in disguise if you want . I recommend that you look for a book called "23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism" by Ha-Joon Chang, a South Korean. In there you will know that capitalism and communism cant affect crap about economic success. 

In another new, Tom Hayden, a famous and dynamic activist for the end of Vietnam War, has passed away at the age of 76. He manage to scrap together a plan to send aids and donations to Bach Mai hospital after its was "mistakenly" bombed to misery.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-tom-vietnam-war-20161024-snap-story.html


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## Silent Knight

Nilgiri said:


> Great video!


He, more to come. 

Next time it'll have more footage of combat maneuver training, not just some nice formation and sea-skimming flights.

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## Viet

maybe a coincidence and not related to the statement of Vietnam defence ministry issued during the Vietnam, US 7th defence policy dialogue 

the meeting took place on Monday last week with *Cara Abercrombie*, US Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for South and Southeast Asia. Senior Lt. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh said “Vietnam will support the U.S and other partners to intervene in the region as long as it brings peace, stability and prosperity”.










and for the first time ever, 4 days later, on last Friday the U.S. Pacific Fleet command headquartered in San Diego, dispatched a destroyer, USS Decatur, cruising near the Paracels. It was the first time such a "freedom of navigation" operation has been conducted without the Japan-based 7th Fleet in command. The U.S. 3rd Fleet consist of more than 100 vessels, including 4 aircraft carriers. I think, the US wants the US 7th fleet covers the East, while the US 3rd fleet the South China sea. a major shift in the US strategy.

U.S. 3rd Fleet


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## Viet

*Vietnam walks a thin line as American, Chinese warships make landmark port calls*
By Dien Luong October 21, 2016 | 01:38 pm GMT+7 VNexpress.net








_The USS John S. McCain at Tien Sa Port in Da Nang, visiting as part of the seventh annual Naval Engagement Activity between the US Navy and the Vietnam People's Navy.Photo by AFP/U.S. Embassy in Hanoi_



*‘Vietnam does not have to be a tightrope walker.’ *
On October 2 two American warships docked at Vietnam’s strategic naval base at Cam Ranh Bay for the first time since the war. This weekend, three Chinese warships will make a similarly unprecedented visit to the same crucial port.

Last Monday, Vietnam’s Vice Minister of National Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh reassured Cara Abercrombie, the visiting U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for South and Southeast Asia, that Hanoi would support Washington’s “engagement” in the Asia-Pacific as long as it brought peace, stability and prosperity.

The statement came several days before Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte filled Beijing's Great Hall of the People with applause and laughter by announcing his "separation from the United States." Leaning gamely on the podium, the 71-year old controversial president described the separation as both military and economic. "I have separated from them so I will be dependant on you for all time," he told the Chinese audience. The slapstick hyperbole made light of the choices small Southeast Asian states must make. As the two major powers vie for dominance through ally states, Vietnam has pursued a delicate path between them.


USS destroyer John S. McCain




















“There is nothing surprising in this move,” Ngo Vinh Long, a Vietnamese professor of history at the University of Maine said in reference to the upcoming visit of Chinese warships.

“Vietnam has said many times that it would open Cam Ranh Bay to all visitors. War ships from the U.S. visited the Bay recently and so this time Chinese warships’ turn,” Long told _VnExpress International_. “In fact I think the coming and going of warships from different countries would enhance security in the area since they would get to know each other and would therefore, hopefully, help avoid unwanted or accidental confrontations in the open sea.”

To several other analysts, Vietnam will be the tightrope walker in the middle with China and the U.S. holding each end.

“Hanoi knows that China is watching them like a hawk,” said Zachary Abuza, a Southeast Asia expert at the National War College in Washington. “I think that the Americans know that even if we dance with the Vietnamese they are watching China’s reactions over our shoulders.”

Vietnam has said recently that it would not allow other countries to set up military bases in Cam Ranh, in what appeared to be a response to Russia's attempt to reopen its Soviet-era base there.

"Vietnam's consistent policy is not to engage a military ally or engage with any country to oppose a third country," Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh told a news briefing in mid-October. "We will also not allow any other countries to set up a military base in Vietnam."

Cam Ranh Bay, around 354 kilometers (220 miles) north of Ho Chi Minh City, is considered the strategic deep water harbor at the center of Vietnam's military modernization and home to its fleet of modern Russian-built submarines. Designed by the French during their colonial rule, Cam Ranh served as a regional staging point for the Russians in their 1905 war against Japan. The Japanese occupied the port during the Second World War and the U.S-backed Saigon regime exploited the bay during the Vietnam War.

Following the reunification of the country in 1975, Vietnam allowed Russian naval forces to maintain a permanent presence in the bay until 2002. In 2011, the U.S. and Vietnam signed a memorandum of understanding calling for an annual port visit, but excluded Cam Ranh. In 2012, then Defense Secretary Leon Panetta visited Cam Ranh Bay, the first high-ranking American official to do so since the end of the Vietnam War.

Hanoi later turned the bay into an international port, open to all on a commercial basis. Singaporean, French and Japanese warships have made port calls in Cam Ranh since the start of the year. Shortly after China began flexing its muscles in the South China Sea (which Vietnam calls the East Sea), in 2011 President Barack Obama announced America’s vaguely assertive plans for a strategic “pivot" towards the Asia-Pacific region.

After China towed a giant oil rig into Vietnamese waters May 2014, the U.S. has sought to remain a vocal critic of China’s claims. Beijing has dismissed Washington's statements as efforts to contain its rise.

At the end of the day, "China will always be an important factor to Vietnam, partly because of geographical, political, economic and ideological proximity,” said Long, the Vietnamese analyst. “Vietnam does not have to be a tightrope walker, although it has to be adept in its relations with other countries," he said. "This is what diplomacy is all about and big countries like China and U.S. have had to do the same.

"Admittedly some might have tried to be intimidating either because of inferiority or superiority complex. But in general, the misuse of power usually results in the loss of power."


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> it is one of many ships that is built by the domestic shipbuilder Sbic. Vietnam can build various types of commercial vessels.


thanks for sharing the pictures of the ships. Good progress made by Vietnam!

Unfortunately, the global shipbuilding industry is now in a very very bad time. The top three shipbuilding countries, China, Japan and Korea are all severely hit by the shrinking new orders, other smaller emerging shipbuilding countries, e.g. Vietnam or Turkey, are no exceptions as well.

Look at the following table about new vessel orders by countries. Vietnam captured 562k GT (gross tons) new orders in 2015, but the new orders in 1H-2016 is only 54k GT. Unless the global economy gets recovered (which is a very unlikely scenario), I don't see any chance for a significant growth in new orders in 2H-2016, or even in the next couple of years.






Vietnam's annual shipbuilding volume 2015 was about 600k GT. The total orderbook on hand by mid-2016 of Vietnam is about 1.2 million GT. So the current order can keep the Vietnam shipbuilders busy for the next two years. But what would happen after the two years? Maybe only god knows. 

This is the worst thing in the modern economy system: capacity built up, but demand disappeared.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> thanks for sharing the pictures of the ships. Good progress made by Vietnam!
> 
> Unfortunately, the global shipbuilding industry is now in a very very bad time. The top three shipbuilding countries, China, Japan and Korea are all severely hit by the shrinking new orders, other smaller emerging shipbuilding countries, e.g. Vietnam or Turkey, are no exceptions as well.
> 
> Look at the following table about new vessel orders by countries. Vietnam captured 562k GT (gross tons) new orders in 2015, but the new orders in 1H-2016 is only 54k GT. Unless the global economy gets recovered (which is a very unlikely scenario), I don't see any chance for a significant growth in new orders in 2H-2016, or even in the next couple of years.
> View attachment 346210
> 
> 
> Vietnam's annual shipbuilding volume 2015 was about 600k GT. The total orderbook on hand by mid-2016 of Vietnam is about 1.2 million GT. So the current order can keep the Vietnam shipbuilders busy for the next two years. But what would happen after the two years? Maybe only god knows.
> 
> This is the worst thing in the modern economy system: capacity built up, but demand disappeared.


I don't know nor do You and only the heaven knows what will happen to our countries in the future. Maybe an alien race appears on earth and enslaves all of us. Ha ha ha. No more South China Sea tension. Good night!

On serious note, comparing Vietnam shipbuilding to other major ship builders as China, Japan and Korea is a bit wide stretched. At least for now. But I know our people, the Vietnamese in general are very ambitious people. We stand far behind? No problem, we must work harder.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I don't know nor do You and only the heaven knows what will happen to our countries in the future. Maybe an alien race appears on earth and enslaves all of us. Ha ha ha. No more South China Sea tension. Good night!
> 
> On serious note, comparing Vietnam shipbuilding to other major ship builders as China, Japan and Korea is a bit wide stretched. At least for now. But I know our people, the Vietnamese in general are very ambitious people. We stand far behind? No problem, we must work harder.


I never said the VN people are not working hard. In fact, people in East Asia are all working very very hard, no matter China, Japan, Korea or Vietnam.

A cruel fact is, for a less developed country, whether you work hard or not work hard, that means merely nothing to the large global trends. For example, China started to export large volume of ships in 1990s'. But if the ships demand in 1990s' was as weak as its demand today, there is NO chance for China to gain a tremendous progress in shipbuilding industry, no matter how hard we work. 

Go back to your shipbuilding industry. The loan is borrowed from the banks by the shipyards companies, the roads are built for the shipyards, all required machinery are installed, workers are also hired. But suddenly, you find the demand on new ships reduced by 70% or even more, what you can do? Yes, you are working very hard, but that can NOT bring the demand to the previous level.

As I just said, in the modern economy system, the worst thing is: capacity is built up, but demand disappeared.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I never said the VN people are not working hard. In fact, people in East Asia are all working very very hard, no matter China, Japan, Korea or Vietnam.
> 
> A cruel fact is, for a less developed country, whether you work hard or not work hard, that means merely nothing to the large global trends. For example, China started to export large volume of ships in 1990s'. But if the ships demand in 1990s' was as weak as its demand today, there is NO chance for China to gain a tremendous progress in shipbuilding industry, no matter how hard we work.
> 
> Go back to your shipbuilding industry. The loan is borrowed from the banks by the shipyards companies, the roads are built for the shipyards, all required machinery are installed, workers are also hired. But suddenly, you find the demand on new ships reduced by 70% or even more, what you can do? Yes, you are working very hard, but that can NOT bring the demand to the previous level.
> 
> As I just said, in the modern economy system, the worst thing is: capacity is built up, but demand disappeared.


oh wait a moment. China produces more steel than the rest of the world combined, doesn´t it?

in fact, not only steel but many other half and finished products such as solar cells. Yes, you manufacture many things more than the entire world can ever consume. But does that mean Vietnam should stop producing steel, only relying on importing steel from China? No way. we want to produce steel, too. there are billions of dollars pouring right now into setting up of steel making monsters in Vietnam. the demand is weak, the pie is not increasing for all but shrinking? well, there is a saying in German: die Letzten beißen die Hunde. that will be a race to the bottom. Vietnam advantage is cheap labor cost, educated work force, strategic location, improving business climate and infrastructure.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Trends/Vietnam-s-steel-industry-bulks-up-against-China

made in Vietnam steel


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## Viet

all three Chinese warships in a picture.

also, not just for sightseeing and taking pictures, the port Cam Ranh offers everything from providing food, fresh water, fuel, rest, maintenance to repair for foreign warships. Including the military umbrella of Vietnam´s armed forces. Would be an interesting event if one of the 4 US aircraft carrier strike groups of the US 3rd fleet visits the bay. Vietnam has more to offer than the Philippines can ever put on the table. however, the situation pretty much depends how the Chinese behave in the south china sea.


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## Aqsuperman

In another development, Philippine has finally step up its game. Huyndai has won a bid to provide 2 up to date ships Philippine Navy with the total cost of more than 300 million USD with delivery at 2020. The details are kind of suspicious though. The weapon systems will be installed separately from the ship body. With a normal Incheon class frigate in service with the ROK navy, which is the model that Philipine Navy ordered ships based on, already cost more than 200 million USD per ship, I wonder what is the final look of those ships. 






http://www.janes.com/article/64864/...her-details-of-philippine-navy-s-new-frigates


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## lonelyman

Total bs, stop day dreaming. What can u offer? Contain China with USA? 

First of all, VCP has more sense than keyboard warrior like you, USA will do a regime change in Vietnam at first chance. Second, Philippine is first dominos down, USA is in permanent decline and will be pushed out South China Sea in 10 years, you align with a decline power against a rising power? Duterte Is way smarter than you.



Viet said:


> all three Chinese warships in a picture.
> 
> also, not just for sightseeing and taking pictures, the port Cam Ranh offers everything from providing food, fresh water, fuel, rest, maintenance to repair for foreign warships. Including the military umbrella of Vietnam´s armed forces. Would be an interesting event if one of the 4 US aircraft carrier strike groups of the US 3rd fleet visits the bay. Vietnam has more to offer than the Philippines can ever put on the table. however, the situation pretty much depends how the Chinese behave in the south china sea.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> oh wait a moment. China produces more steel than the rest of the world combined, doesn´t it?
> 
> in fact, not only steel but many other half and finished products such as solar cells. Yes, you manufacture many things more than the entire world can ever consume. But does that mean Vietnam should stop producing steel, only relying on importing steel from China? No way. we want to produce steel, too. there are billions of dollars pouring right now into setting up of steel making monsters in Vietnam. the demand is weak, the pie is not increasing for all but shrinking? well, there is a saying in German: die Letzten beißen die Hunde. that will be a race to the bottom. Vietnam advantage is cheap labor cost, educated work force, strategic location, improving business climate and infrastructure.



I talked with you the shipbuilding industry, and you switched to steel making industry; I talked with you the shrinking new ships demand is hurting every body, and you switched to "we can conquer the difficulty via harder working". Haha, what a skillful debater.

Yes, you post many pictures of the VN-made ships, but it seems that you are NOT clear of the deep difficulty that your country's shipbuilding industry is facing with!! You actually know much less than me, a Chinese that can not read Vietnamese. 

Let me reveal you some cruel facts that you would NEVER hear from neither the VCP media, nor the western media. The VCP media doesn't want to tell its people the truth because the VN shipbuilding industry is seen as the core achievement of the VN industrialization; the western media doesn't report it because they simply DON'T care what is happening in your country.

Loot at the following picture. It shows the total orderbook-on-hand of the VN shipbuilding sector. A consecutive drop since 2009. Do you know what it means??

The new ships production 2015 in Vietnam is about 0.6 million GT. So if the new orders doesn't climb up (given the current global economy trend, this is the scenario with the highest probability), and the VN shipyards could just be dependent on the current orderbook, how many months you think your shipbuilding industry could sustain??






What's even worse is your deep dependency on the Korean Shipbuilders. Hyundai Vinashin is the core shipyard in Vietnam. Actually Hyundai Vinashin owns ~70% of the total orders of the entire VN shipbuilding industry. But do you have any clue about the financial trouble the company is now facing with? 

The table below shows the basic financial figures of Hyundai Vinashin, in the time order of 2012 (bottom line) to 2015 (top line). Hyundai Vinashin reported a KRW 200billion LOSS in total in the past four years (sum of the last row)!! Converted to USD, the loss is 180 million USD.





180 million USD loss may not be a big number to Hyundai, if it could earn sufficient profits from its domestic business. But the sad news is, the sudden decline of the new ships market is KILLING Hyundai Shipbuilding. See the below table, although Hyundai targeted to gain 8.5 billion $ new orders in 2016, but its actual achievement by Sept. 2016 is just 1.2 billion $, or 14% of the original target. Do you know what is the consequence resulted by the new order decline to Hyundai? Read the news at: Hyundai Heavy Industries Will Cut Jobs, Sell $1 Billion in Assets

So, on the one side is the loss-making subsidiary in Vietnam; on the other side is the large scale job cutting and assets sales in Korea, if you were a normal Korean that wants to protect the Korean interests, what will you respond??








Viet said:


> Vietnam advantage is cheap labor cost, educated work force, strategic location, improving business climate and infrastructure.


Sorry, the VN advantage you brag simply does NOT work for shipbuilding industry.

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## xiao qi

GS Zhou said:


> I talked with you the shipbuilding industry, and you switched to steel making industry; I talked with you the shrinking new ships demand is hurting every body, and you switched to "we can conquer the difficulty via harder working". Haha, what a skillful debater.
> 
> Yes, you post many pictures of the VN-made ships, but it seems that you are NOT clear of the deep difficulty that your country's shipbuilding industry is facing with!! You actually know much less than me, a Chinese that can not read Vietnamese.
> 
> Let me reveal you some cruel facts that you would NEVER hear from neither the VCP media, nor the western media. The VCP media doesn't want to tell its people the truth because the VN shipbuilding industry is seen as the core achievement of the VN industrialization; the western media doesn't report it because they simply DON'T care what is happening in your country.
> 
> Loot at the following picture. It shows the total orderbook-on-hand of the VN shipbuilding sector. A consecutive drop since 2009. Do you know what it means??
> 
> The new ships production 2015 in Vietnam is about 0.6 million GT. So if the new orders doesn't climb up (given the current global economy trend, this is the scenario with the highest probability), and the VN shipyards could just be dependent on the current orderbook, how many months you think your shipbuilding industry could sustain??
> 
> View attachment 346460
> 
> 
> What's even worse is your deep dependency on the Korean Shipbuilders. Hyundai Vinashin is the core shipyard in Vietnam. Actually Hyundai Vinashin owns ~70% of the total orders of the entire VN shipbuilding industry. But do you have any clue about the financial trouble the company is now facing with?
> 
> The table below shows the basic financial figures of Hyundai Vinashin, in the time order of 2012 (bottom line) to 2015 (top line). Hyundai Vinashin reported a KRW 200billion LOSS in total in the past four years (sum of the last row)!! Converted to USD, the loss is 180 million USD.
> View attachment 346466
> 
> 
> 180 million USD loss may not be a big number to Hyundai, if it could earn sufficient profits from its domestic business. But the sad news is, the sudden decline of the new ships market is KILLING Hyundai Shipbuilding. See the below table, although Hyundai targeted to gain 8.5 billion $ new orders in 2016, but its actual achievement by Sept. 2016 is just 1.2 billion $, or 14% of the original target. Do you know what is the consequence resulted by the new order decline to Hyundai? Read the news at: Hyundai Heavy Industries Will Cut Jobs, Sell $1 Billion in Assets
> 
> So, on the one side is the loss-making subsidiary in Vietnam; on the other side is the large scale job cutting and assets sales in Korea, if you were a normal Korean that wants to protect the Korean interests, what will you respond??
> 
> View attachment 346469
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the VN advantage you brag simply does NOT work for shipbuilding industry.


Thank for your sharing , so What do you think Vietnam should do in the near future to protect our shipbuilding manufactory?

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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> Thank for your sharing , so What do you think Vietnam should do in the near future to protect our shipbuilding manufactory?



Long time no see, hope you are well my dear.

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> Long time no see, hope you are well my dear.


I'm well, bro, I'm still here to see our section

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## Viet

lonelyman said:


> Total bs, stop day dreaming. What can u offer? Contain China with USA?
> 
> First of all, VCP has more sense than keyboard warrior like you, USA will do a regime change in Vietnam at first chance. Second, Philippine is first dominos down, USA is in permanent decline and will be pushed out South China Sea in 10 years, you align with a decline power against a rising power? Duterte Is way smarter than you.


first, actually people in VN don´t care, neither do I, what the president of the Philippines does inside and outside of the country. he can be with America or with China, it is not our business. Call him smart as you like. but if I was you, I would think twice before making quick statement, before laying too much trust on a politician in advance. the former president Ferdinand Marcos once threatened to abandon America and ally with USSR. it turns out he just wanted to press more money out of Uncle Sam. I won´t wonder if Durtete has similar thing in mind. How can the Philippines defend against external threat without Navy, No coast guard, no Airforce, No air defence, no nothing? it is really crazy to unilaterally abandon the defender of the country, the US armed forces, just out of a bad mood.

But as said I don´t care.

second, as for rising and declining power, you should at least know not all people share your view. or more precise Chinese centric view. as for VN, it is better if you think twice before bulling our country and people at next best occasion.

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## GS Zhou

xiao qi said:


> Thank for your sharing , so What do you think Vietnam should do in the near future to protect our shipbuilding manufactory?


Thanks to your "Thanks". (sounds a bit funny, haha)

You really want to hear my advice? I don't think my advice could entertain you, to be honest.


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## xiao qi

GS Zhou said:


> Thanks to your "Thanks". (sounds a bit funny, haha)
> 
> You really want to hear my advice? I don't think my advice could entertain you, to be honest.



Really, Why not?  You can answer or not If you want


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## GS Zhou

xiao qi said:


> Really, Why not?  You can answer or not If you want


Fine, thanks for your trust. 

My suggestions to the Vietnam Shipbuilding sector:


*Be very very careful to the new investment to shipbuilding industry.* I don't want to say to stop all new investment, you definitely don't want to hear it. But I do think Vietnam government should be more and more cautious on approving any new investment to this sector. It is now becoming more and more difficult to find sufficient new demand to feed the existing capacity, needless to say feeding any new capacity.


*Request the state-owned shipping company to place orders to the domestic shipyards.* The difficulty here is, the pocket-size of the VN state-owned shipping company is too small to feed the domestic yard. In addition, price of the second-hand ship is eroding very fast. So for many small shipping companies with financial constraints, they usually prefer to purchase second hand ships, rather than new ships. So if VCP really wants to push the SOE shipping companies to procure domestically-made new ships, VCP, or eventually the tax payers like you, will have to finance the procurement.


*Give fiscal subsidies to foreign investors,* like Hyundai Vinashin. I believe VCP has already offered big tickets subsidies to Hyundai Vinashin, otherwise it is really difficult to convince the Korean guys to stay in Vietnam. In the end, Hyundai comes to Vietnam for making profits, not for making charity. Right?


*Pray for a sudden recovery of the global economy. *This is the easiest way, but I really doubt its usefulness.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I talked with you the shipbuilding industry, and you switched to steel making industry; I talked with you the shrinking new ships demand is hurting every body, and you switched to "we can conquer the difficulty via harder working". Haha, what a skillful debater.
> 
> Yes, you post many pictures of the VN-made ships, but it seems that you are NOT clear of the deep difficulty that your country's shipbuilding industry is facing with!! You actually know much less than me, a Chinese that can not read Vietnamese.
> 
> Let me reveal you some cruel facts that you would NEVER hear from neither the VCP media, nor the western media. The VCP media doesn't want to tell its people the truth because the VN shipbuilding industry is seen as the core achievement of the VN industrialization; the western media doesn't report it because they simply DON'T care what is happening in your country.
> 
> Loot at the following picture. It shows the total orderbook-on-hand of the VN shipbuilding sector. A consecutive drop since 2009. Do you know what it means??
> 
> The new ships production 2015 in Vietnam is about 0.6 million GT. So if the new orders doesn't climb up (given the current global economy trend, this is the scenario with the highest probability), and the VN shipyards could just be dependent on the current orderbook, how many months you think your shipbuilding industry could sustain??
> 
> View attachment 346460
> 
> 
> What's even worse is your deep dependency on the Korean Shipbuilders. Hyundai Vinashin is the core shipyard in Vietnam. Actually Hyundai Vinashin owns ~70% of the total orders of the entire VN shipbuilding industry. But do you have any clue about the financial trouble the company is now facing with?
> 
> The table below shows the basic financial figures of Hyundai Vinashin, in the time order of 2012 (bottom line) to 2015 (top line). Hyundai Vinashin reported a KRW 200billion LOSS in total in the past four years (sum of the last row)!! Converted to USD, the loss is 180 million USD.
> View attachment 346466
> 
> 
> 180 million USD loss may not be a big number to Hyundai, if it could earn sufficient profits from its domestic business. But the sad news is, the sudden decline of the new ships market is KILLING Hyundai Shipbuilding. See the below table, although Hyundai targeted to gain 8.5 billion $ new orders in 2016, but its actual achievement by Sept. 2016 is just 1.2 billion $, or 14% of the original target. Do you know what is the consequence resulted by the new order decline to Hyundai? Read the news at: Hyundai Heavy Industries Will Cut Jobs, Sell $1 Billion in Assets
> 
> So, on the one side is the loss-making subsidiary in Vietnam; on the other side is the large scale job cutting and assets sales in Korea, if you were a normal Korean that wants to protect the Korean interests, what will you respond??
> 
> View attachment 346469
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the VN advantage you brag simply does NOT work for shipbuilding industry.


I like you. You are one of the most reasonable chinese guys on this forum. ok, building ships obviously needs a lot of steel, doesn´t it? or do you think it is not related? Working harder is not an option for you, either? we talked about the need of Vietnam for more surface warships, just a few moments ago. I am aware of loss making steel makers and loss making shipbuilders in Vietnam, but cutting down to zero is not an option, out of strategic interest. the question is how big or how small Vietnam needs in steel and shipbuilding capacity now and in the future. as for steel, the entire world includes China consumption is *1,488 Mt in 2016 *(world steel association), but China alone produces *1,200 Mt*. the world´s demand shrinks a bit last year, and expectedly remains flat next year. but nearly all steel makers increase capacity. How will you respond to the overcapacity in China and the world? or everybody bets the competitors will go down the drain? can you tell me how much steel (in metric ton) is needed in China?

I am happy to see Hyundai and other foreign companies operating in Vietnam. no reason for shame.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I like you. You are one of the most reasonable chinese guys on this forum. ok, building ships obviously needs a lot of steel, doesn´t it? or do you think it is not related? Working harder is not an option for you, either? we talked about the need of Vietnam for more surface warships, just a few moments ago. I am aware of loss making steel makers and loss making shipbuilders in Vietnam, but cutting down to zero is not an option, out of strategic interest. the question is how big or how small Vietnam needs in steel and shipbuilding capacity now and in the future. as for steel, the entire world includes China consumption is *1,488 Mt in 2016 *(world steel association), but China alone produces *1,200 Mt*. the world´s demand shrinks a bit last year, and expectedly remains flat next year. but nearly all steel makers increase capacity. How will you respond to the overcapacity in China and the world? or everybody bets the competitors will go down the drain? can you tell me how much steel (in metric ton) is needed in China?



Thanks to your like. 

You shift to steel making again. Sigh... Can I call you "Herr Shifter"? 

Haha, just a joke. No offense.

This is the thread for Vietnam Military. So I doubt if it is an appropriate place to discuss the China Steel Industry. But since you, the thread creator, raised this open question to me, so I'm happy to share some of my humble views on this topic, but will try to keep it in concise.


*How much steel China produced vs. Global total*
According to your data (1,200 vs. 1,488), China's share reaches 80%!! But that's incorrect! China's share is big, but not that big.

The following image comes from the website of World Steel Association. The table shows the by-country steel production in Jan. to Sept. 2016. According to this table, China produced 600 mn tons steel during the period; the total global-wide production volume during the same period is 1,200 million tons. So China's share is 50%. Far smaller than the 80% ratio you show.






*Is China exporting too much steel?*
A quick and simple answer: NO! 

In 2015, 
- 39% of the Japan-made steel goes to export; 
- 44% of the S. Korea-made steel goes to export; 
- 58% of the Germany-made steel goes to export. 
- But what is the ratio to China? 14% only. 


*Why China is much less export-dependent than Japan, South Korea or Germany?*
*Two key reasons:

1. Self-constraint*
During Jan. to Sept. 2016, China has closed *36 million ton steel production capacity*. 36 million tons! China has done its duty for a more balanced demand vs. supply steel industry. But I don't see other countries are doing the same.

*2. We need to satisfy the huge domestic demand*
Since only 14% of the China-made steel goes to export, apparently, the rest 86% is produced for domestic consumption. 

Why we consume that much steel? Just consider the following.
- We consume 30% of the automobile globally
- We produce 40% of the vessels globally
- We own 2/3 of the high speed rails globally
- We are in the era of building massive infrastructures. For example, in 2015 alone, we built 11,265 km of express ways. I don't know China's exact share of newly-built expressways globally. But this must again be a high share, considering the total length of Germany autobahn is just about 13,000 km (Germany started the autobahn construction since the Nazi era...)
- Given the complexity of mountainous area of our land, we need to build endless bridges, tunnels to solve the basic travel needs of our people. And all these huge projects need huge volume of steel.

List of highest bridges globally, check how many them coming from China
Full list at: http://www.highestbridges.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Highest_International_Bridges/Page_1





Visit the thread about "China Expressways, Highways, Bridges, Infrastructure - News and updates...". You can get more information from this thread.
https://defence.pk/threads/china-ex...idges-infrastructure-news-and-updates.435098/

I don't want to continue the list. Otherwise it will be too off topic. Hope it answers your question on the Chinese steel sector.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Thanks to your like.
> 
> You shift to steel making again. Sigh... Can I call you "Herr Shifter"?
> 
> Haha, just a joke. No offense.
> 
> This is the thread for Vietnam Military. So I doubt if it is an appropriate place to discuss the China Steel Industry. But since you, the thread creator, raised this open question to me, so I'm happy to share some of my humble views on this topic, but will try to keep it in concise.
> 
> 
> *How much steel China produced vs. Global total*
> According to your data (1,200 vs. 1,488), China's share reaches 80%!! But that's incorrect! China's share is big, but not that big.
> 
> The following image comes from the website of World Steel Association. The table shows the by-country steel production in Jan. to Sept. 2016. According to this table, China produced 600 mn tons steel during the period; the total global-wide production volume during the same period is 1,200 million tons. So China's share is 50%. Far smaller than the 80% ratio you show.
> 
> View attachment 346506
> 
> 
> *Is China exporting too much steel?*
> A quick and simple answer: NO!
> 
> In 2015,
> - 39% of the Japan-made steel goes to export;
> - 44% of the S. Korea-made steel goes to export;
> - 58% of the Germany-made steel goes to export.
> - But what is the ratio to China? 14% only.
> 
> 
> *Why China is much less export-dependent than Japan, South Korea or Germany?*
> *Two key reasons:
> 
> 1. Self-constraint*
> During Jan. to Sept. 2016, China has closed *36 million ton steel production capacity*. 36 million tons! China has done its duty for a more balanced demand vs. supply steel industry. But I don't see other countries are doing the same.
> 
> *2. We need to satisfy the huge domestic demand*
> Since only 14% of the China-made steel goes to export, apparently, the rest 86% is produced for domestic consumption.
> 
> Why we consume that much steel? Just consider the following.
> - We consume 30% of the automobile globally
> - We produce 40% of the vessels globally
> - We own 2/3 of the high speed rails globally
> - We are in the era of building massive infrastructures. For example, in 2015 alone, we built 11,265 km of express ways. I don't know China's exact share of newly-built expressways globally. But this must again be a high share, considering the total length of Germany autobahn is just about 13,000 km (Germany started the autobahn construction since the Nazi era...)
> - Given the complexity of mountainous area of our land, we need to build endless bridges, tunnels to solve the basic travel needs of our people. And all these huge projects need huge volume of steel.
> 
> List of highest bridges globally, check how many them coming from China
> Full list at: http://www.highestbridges.com/wiki/index.php?title=List_of_Highest_International_Bridges/Page_1
> View attachment 346520
> 
> 
> Visit the thread about "China Expressways, Highways, Bridges, Infrastructure - News and updates...". You can get more information from this thread.
> https://defence.pk/threads/china-ex...idges-infrastructure-news-and-updates.435098/
> 
> I don't want to continue the list. Otherwise it will be too off topic. Hope it answers your question on the Chinese steel sector.


well, Germany has 13,000 km autobahn without speed limit. if taking other highways with speed limit comparable to China, there will be another 200,000 km you need to add into calculation. but I stop here before we continue with highways


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> well, Germany has 13,000 km autobahn without speed limit. if taking other highways with speed limit comparable to China, there will be another 200,000 km you need to add into calculation. but I stop here before we continue with highways


I have the driving experience in germany. l drove from dusseldorf to friedrichshafen and back to dusseldorf again in one weekend. so I know how the autobahn looks like in germany, and alao how the.expressway network looks in China. you'd better make the comments after you try the expressway in China.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I have the driving experience in germany. l drove from dusseldorf to friedrichshafen and back to dusseldorf again in one weekend. so I know how the autobahn looks like in germany, and alao how the.expressway network looks in China. you'd better make the comments after you try the expressway in China.


it is a great feeling isn´t it? driving as fast as you can 

as for China, well, one of my family members just came back from China after attending an economics course at a Shanghai university.so I get some fresh stories about China and Chinese people there. although the stories may be incorrect or unsharp because they are seen through the eyes of a Vietnamese, so things may be colored in red and blue instead of black and white. personally I went several times of HK and Macau before handover, seeing the fear in the eyes of the people. as if the communists would eat them alive after taking over.

I think we are off-topic.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> it is a great feeling isn´t it? driving as fast as you can
> 
> as for China, well, one of my family members just came back from China after attending an economics course at a Shanghai university.so I get some fresh stories about China and Chinese people there. although the stories may be incorrect or unsharp because they are seen through the eyes of a Vietnamese, so things may be colored in red and blue instead of black and white. personally I went several times of HK and Macau before handover, seeing the fear in the eyes of the people. as if the communists would eat them alive after taking over.
> 
> I think we are off-topic.


why dont make a visit to mainland China? not necessarily shanghai or beijing, some other places, even the least developed part of China, e.g. guizhou, are worth visiting as well.

yes, lets not be off topic too far.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> why dont make a visit to mainland China? not necessarily shanghai or beijing, some other places, even the least developed part of China, e.g. guizhou, are worth visiting as well.
> 
> yes, lets not be off topic too far.


I want to visit Taiwan because it represents "true" China, worth a visit. no offense.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I want to visit Taiwan because it represents "true" China, worth a visit. no offense.


welcome to pay a visit to China's Taiwan province.

I also want to make a tour to Saigon, because it represents the 'true' Vietnam.

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## Silent Knight

Off topic.

I also like @GS Zhou, the guy seems very reasonable and open-minded, unlike many Chinese people I encountered.

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## dingyibvs

Viet said:


> first, actually people in VN don´t care, neither do I, what the president of the Philippines does inside and outside of the country. he can be with America or with China, it is not our business. Call him smart as you like. but if I was you, I would think twice before making quick statement, before laying too much trust on a politician in advance. the former president Ferdinand Marcos once threatened to abandon America and ally with USSR. it turns out he just wanted to press more money out of Uncle Sam. I won´t wonder if Durtete has similar thing in mind. *How can the Philippines defend against external threat without Navy, No coast guard, no Airforce, No air defence, no nothing?* it is really crazy to unilaterally abandon the defender of the country, the US armed forces, just out of a bad mood.
> 
> But as said I don´t care.
> 
> second, as for rising and declining power, you should at least know not all people share your view. or more precise Chinese centric view. as for VN, it is better if you think twice before bulling our country and people at next best occasion.



That's a good question. Vietnam has only formed an unified nation since the '70s, yet it is way ahead in all those areas than the Philippines, who has had a great relationship with the Americans for over century now. Ever wonder why that is? I personally believe it's smart for the Vietnamese to develop good relationship with the U.S., why would you want to have a bad relationship with any superpower? Similarly for the Filipinos, it makes no sense for them to completely antagonize any superpower, so it's only natural for them to seek a similar path as the Vietnamese and try to make good with everyone. Being completely reliant on only one just means you'll have to rely on that superpower for even coast guard duties.


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## Nilgiri

Silent Knight said:


> Off topic.
> 
> I also like @GS Zhou, the guy seems very reasonable and open-minded, unlike many Chinese people I encountered.



Yes he is worth interacting with and good to learn from.


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## Aqsuperman

One of many long term storage facilities, this warehouse contains Type 63 amphibious light tanks, comparable to PT-76 with a bigger gun. These kinds of facilities usually hold plenty of the last century weapons, from T-34 and Su-100 to this day. In this case, its located in the sea region of Vietnam.


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## Viet

dingyibvs said:


> That's a good question. Vietnam has only formed an unified nation since the '70s, yet it is way ahead in all those areas than the Philippines, who has had a great relationship with the Americans for over century now. Ever wonder why that is? I personally believe it's smart for the Vietnamese to develop good relationship with the U.S., why would you want to have a bad relationship with any superpower? Similarly for the Filipinos, it makes no sense for them to completely antagonize any superpower, so it's only natural for them to seek a similar path as the Vietnamese and try to make good with everyone. Being completely reliant on only one just means you'll have to rely on that superpower for even coast guard duties.


if one knows a bit of the Philippines, the country had seen better days, being in a good shape with people affluent after Japan. but it was Ferdinand Marcos, who looted the country, leading the country to the abyss. Duterte can blame America for all of the country´s deficiencies but it won´t bring back the glorious days. by the way, the US paid 1$ billion a year to the Philippines for the lease of the Subic Bay base before the US boys were forced to pack all stuffs and go home. too bad, the money goes home too. but again, as said, their country, their problem. we in Vietnam have own problems to deal with.


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## Silent Knight

The 925th Fighter Regiment with their recently upgraded Su-27UBM (8526). This unit would be the one out of two receiving Su-30SM or Su-35S fighters.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> The 925th Fighter Regiment with their recently upgraded Su-27UBM (8526). This unit would be the one out of two receiving Su-30SM or Su-35S fighters.


is the airforce still aiming to have 72 Suchoi´s (6 squadrons) in total?


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> well, Germany has 13,000 km autobahn without speed limit. if taking other highways with speed limit comparable to China, there will be another 200,000 km you need to add into calculation. but I stop here before we continue with highways



Vietnam can learn a lot from Germany. Hitler did an amazing job lifting Germany out of poverty within 2 years. I don't see why Vietnam cannot apply the same principles and building ships for military defense. We all know money is the real issue. Just don't let the Rothschild control Vietnamese's future.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> is the airforce still aiming to have 72 Suchoi´s (6 squadrons) in total?


A more probable vision would be 4 "heavy fighter" regiments (923rd, 925th, 927th and 935th) along with two "light fighter" regiments (921st and 937th). Or 5 heavy and 1 light, as the 937th FR was the very first unit to operate the Su-27 and Su-30, something like this.







By then the Su-27 would be put into storage (not probably) or transfer to Air Force Academy and/or training regiment.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> A more probable vision would be 4 "heavy fighter" regiments (923rd, 925th, 927th and 935th) along with two "light fighter" regiments (921st and 937th). Or 5 heavy and 1 light, as the 937th FR was the very first unit to operate the Su-27 and Su-30, something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By then the Su-27 would be put into storage (not probably) or transfer to Air Force Academy and/or training regiment.


so in total 9 squadron fighter jets, whereas there is a question mask behind Yak-130?
I would guess the Su-35 will cover the northern and central theatres.


---


Military Capabilities

*Vietnam establishes hydrographic office amid submarine deliveries*
*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
26 October 2016

Vietnam has inaugurated a hydrographic commission and office, Hanoi announced via the state-run Vietnam News Agency (VNA) on 25 October.

The commission is to advise the Vietnamese Ministry of Defence and other government agencies on hydrographic matters. A decision to establish the commission was first made by the ministry in August 2016.

"It is a chance for the domestic hydrographic sector to expand co-operation with its counterparts in the region and around the world, thereby helping to fulfil defence-security tasks and strengthen foreign co-operation and sea and island-related diplomatic activities," said the Lieutenant General Phan Van Giang, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People's Army (PAVN).




------------

a bit info on Vietnam hydrographic vessel

Vietnam made research vessel HSV class, Equipped for oceanographic research and hydrographic survey, for general and defence purposes. length 66.4m, speed 12.4 kn, 656 ton, 50 crews


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## Viet

good to attack in an ambush: wire guided armor piercing anti tank missile 9M14 Malyutka. max range 3,000m, more than capable to destroy steel armor US tank as M48/60 Patton or similar types.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> so in total 9 squadron fighter jets, whereas there is a question mask behind Yak-130?
> I would guess the Su-35 will cover the northern and central theatres.


Well.

In the picture, the 931st FR was disbanded (as in reality) and 920th is a training regiment which is currently operating L-39 subsonic jet trainers.

The Su-35S or Su-30SM will focus on Paracel and Spratly Islands.

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## Viet

LT. GEN. PHAN VAN GIANG|Oct 27, 2016
*Vietnam Forges Closer Military Ties with the United States*
By Arthur Dominic Villasanta 






Lt. Gen. Phan Van Giang and Adm. Harry Harris Jr., commander of U.S. Pacific Command, during an honor ceremony at Vietnam's Ministry of National Defense.


Lt. Gen. Phan Van Giang, Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) and Deputy Defense Minister, held talks with visiting Admiral Harry B. Harris Jr., Commander, United States Pacific Command (CDRUSPACOM) on Oct. 26 in Hanoi.

Gen. Giang spoke highly of the comprehensive partnership between Vietnam and the U.S. during his talks with the tough talking Adm. Harris, who has consistently urged China to stop its militarization of the South China Sea and abide by international rulings and norms.

Gen. Giang noted that defense collaboration has thrived between Vietnam and the U.S. under the memorandum of understanding on national defense cooperation signed by the two countries in 2011, and the joint vision statement on bilateral defense relations inked in 2015.

He also called on both countries to enhance their friendship and mutual understanding, and build trust for the sake of their people, as well as for peace and stability in the region.

Adm. Harris hoped his Vietnam visit will contribute to boosting bilateral defense ties. He's been a strong supporter of boosting the U.S.' defense relationship with Vietnam.

Last February, Adm. Harris supported lifting a four decades-old United States ban on weapons sales to Vietnam and for getting more U.S. Navy ships for port visits. The weapons ban was rescinded by President Barack Obama last May during his official visit to Vietnam.

"We do port visits in Vietnam and I advocate for more. I believe that we will be able to do more this year," said Adm. in a March hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Adm. Harris said he saw an opportunity to grow the relationship with Vietnam and thinks the Vietnamese people would be receptive.

"I believe that we should improve our relationship with Vietnam," he said. "I think it's a great strategic opportunity for us and I think the Vietnamese people would welcome the opportunity to work closer with us as their security partner of choice."

The Navy conducted four port visits in Vietnam in 2015. The destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62) and the littoral combat ship USS Fort Worth (LCS-3), along with the expeditionary fast transport ship USNS Millinocket (T-EPF-3) and the hospital ship USNS Mercy (T-AH-19), all made visits to Da Nang.



Read more: http://en.yibada.com/articles/17005...military-ties-united-states.htm#ixzz4OMC3mHEX


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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> Vietnam can learn a lot from Germany. Hitler did an amazing job lifting Germany out of poverty within 2 years. I don't see why Vietnam cannot apply the same principles and building ships for military defense. We all know money is the real issue. Just don't let the Rothschild control Vietnamese's future.


Vietnam can´t be compared to Germany. while we were standing still, the latter pursued industrialization since the invention of steam engine by James Watt in 18 century, long before Adolf Hitler came to power.

news of the day

besides the meeting in Vietnam army headquarters, Harry Harris, the Commander of the US Pacific Command (USPACOM) went to Saigon meeting with the local government there. I think since the Philippines under Durtete pisses on America at any occasion, the US can end all the supports to the Pinoys, shifting all money to Vietnam, making us to a military stronghold like Japan and South Korea. although I don´t think it is not necessary for signing to a military alliance yet.










as for some who think the US runs out of money, the country can print dollars until the end of the world. a new $4.4 billion guided missile stealth destroyer, USS Zumwalt, named after the Admiral served during the Vietnam war , length 186 m, 15,000 tons, launching Tomahawk, Sea Sparrow Missiles, standard surface-to-air missiles and anti-submarine rockets from 80 missile tubes, powered by 78 MW gas turbines. Harry Harris says it is the ship Batman wants

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## Viet

*Vietnam's Military Modernization*
After extraordinary growth in military hardware, Vietnam is consolidating its new gains.

By Zachary Abuza and Nguyen Nhat Anh for The Diplomat
October 28, 2016








In the past 10 years, there has been a fundamental shift in the capabilities of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA), which for the first time has the ability to project power and defend maritime interests. No country in Southeast Asia has put more military hardware online in the same period of time as Vietnam. This military modernization has been driven almost exclusively by the threat posed by China over territory in the contested South China Sea.

What we are seeing now is Vietnam entering a period of consolidation and gradually improved capability, and the gradual development of doctrine. Vietnam has many of the assets in place, but so far, no doctrine in a real sense (beyond “people’s war”) or any sense of cross-service jointness. The groundwork is laid for further military development.

*Budget
*
Vietnam’s publicly released defense budget (its official budget is a state secret) has grown from $1.3 billion in 2006 to $4.6 billion in 2015, a 258 percent increase. In local currency, the budget increased from VND 20.5 trillion in 2006 to nearly VND 100 trillion in 2015, a 381 percent increase, but reflective of the dong’s decline in value. In 2015, according to SIPRI, Vietnam’s defense expenditures were the fourth largest in Southeast Asia, behind only Singapore, Indonesia, and Thailand; all wealthier or significantly larger economies. It was the first year that Vietnam’s spending surpassed Malaysia’s. The defense budget is an estimated $5 billion in 2016, and it is expected to grow to $6 billion by 2020. This, however, is clearly an underestimation and does not include portions of the budget for R&D that may be in other ministerial lines, or from revenue generated from defense-owned industries, especially VietTel, the largest internet and cell phone provider in the country.






In terms of share of government spending in 2015, Vietnam’s defense spending was 8.3 percent, the third highest share in ASEAN after Singapore (16 percent) and Myanmar (13.3 percent), though just below the ASEAN average. Its lowest rate of spending in the decade from 2006-2015 was in 2013 at only 7.1 percent of government spending. Over the decade, it has averaged 7.67 percent.








Yet, on a per capita basis, Vietnam’s defense spending is quite modest. In 2015, per capita expenditure was only $49 per person, well below the ASEAN average of $388 per person. Even if you removed Singapore, which skews the data, Vietnam still falls well short of the average of $200 per person. Vietnam’s per capita defense spending is the fifth highest in ASEAN, but only above poorer countries: the Philippines, Indonesia, Myanmar, Laos, and Cambodia. Nonetheless, between 2006-2015, Vietnam saw a 300 percent increase in per capita spending.

In the period of 2011 to 2015, Vietnam was the 8th largest importer of weaponry in the world, a 699 percent increase from 2006-2010, when it was the 43rd largest. Vietnam accounted for over a third of total ASEAN arms imports in 2015.









Although the leadership is committed to rapidly modernizing its military, defense spending has been prudent and linked to economic performance. Defense spending was only 2.3 percent of GDP in 2015, slightly ahead of inflation. This figure has been very constant over the past decade. There have been very steady budget increases on an annual basis, but still a similar percent of GDP persists, and the budget is tied to Vietnam’s fast growing economy, which has made the VPA a key stakeholder in Vietnam’s economic development.

*Defense White Paper*

Vietnam’s last white paper was released in 2009, their third. The VPA was reportedly drafting a new version in mid-2015, but suspended the process until after the quinquennial congress of the Vietnam Communist Party (VCP) in January 2016. It was expected that the new leadership would add their imprimatur to the document and that it would be released in mid 2016; but as of the time of writing, there is no discussion of it in the official media. This is most likely due to the fact that VCP General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong was re-elected in January 2016, but was expected to remain in his post for only a half term. As such, political jockeying is already underway, including some high level purges, trials, and crackdowns on dissent.

There are several other reasons to explain the delay. The first is the July 2016 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) on the suit filed by the Philippines challenging China’s territorial claims and nine-dash line in the South China Sea. Though the PCA’s ruling in most ways benefits Vietnam more than any other country, Hanoi has been silent on the ruling, and has still not released a formal response. Hanoi is clearly alarmed at the inconsistent statements and policies of Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, who has sought to distance the Philippines from its traditional ally the United States, and who has pledged to not press China with the PCA ruling, instead calling it a “piece of paper with four corners” and accepting China’s historical rights to the waters.

Second, despite the newly acquired defense platforms, it is evident that Vietnam still has not developed doctrines that reflect these newly acquired capabilities. Doctrine has not even begun to keep pace with acquisition. As such, Vietnam has a patchwork of capabilities, without any integrated or joint defense doctrine. That being said, there have been several joint exercises among the branches in the last few years, such as a combined arms exercise between the air force, armored units, and infantry in 2014, or an undated recent joint marine-air force amphibious landing exercise, which involved amphibious armored vehicles attacking from tank landing ships (LSTs) and marines descending from Vietnam People’s Army Air Force (VPAAF) helicopters. Thus, jointness is increasingly emphasized in the VPA, but a full doctrine has yet to be announced or seen. More importantly, the air force and navy are not independent services, and at the end of they day they are commanded by army generals. There are no signs that this is going to change any time soon.

Third, Vietnam has been repeatedly caught flat-footed in responding to China’s multilayered operations in the South China Sea, including operations of the People’s Liberation Army Navy, People’s Liberation Army Air Force, Chinese Coast Guard, and its increasingly networked maritime militia. While Vietnam has built one of the largest coast guard forces in the region (much bigger than those of the Philippines, Indonesia, or Malaysia), it has been unable to stop China’s construction of artificial islands and fishing in the disputed region. While the Vietnamese are aware that this is happening, their existing military doctrine remains too rigid, unable to respond in kind, or incapable of utilizing assets in creative and effective ways.

*Navy*

No service has benefitted more from modernization than the Vietnam People’s Army Navy (VPAN). Vietnam has acquired six Russian-built _Kilo_-class submarines, five of which have been delivered, and the sixth will arrive in early 2017. That gives Vietnam the most advanced submarine fleet in the region. Vietnam has already trained nine of 12 submarine crews and at least one submarine is currently patrolling without its Russian trainers and advisers. Vietnam surprised many when it successfully purchased submarine-launched Klub anti-shore missiles from Russia. Yet most evidence, to date, is that the ships are spending most of their training time on the surface, with only occasional dives, rather than prolonged underwater training missions.






_Kilo attack submarines_



Vietnam acquired two _Gepard-_class frigates in 2011, its largest and most modern surface warfare ships. Two more are currently under construction, to be delivered late 2016 or early 2017; these will be equipped with advanced anti-submarine warfare capabilities. A third pair is currently being negotiated.

Vietnam acquired two fast _Molniya_ missile attack crafts from Russia. More importantly, it purchased the production license for six more that have already been built, and is currently negotiating the license to build four more. The new _Molniya_-class will have additional capabilities, including being armed with Klub ship-to-shore missiles, in addition to the existing Uran anti-ship missile. These will give Vietnam the ability to target any facilities China has constructed in the Spratly or Paracel Islands.

India provided a $500 million line of credit to Vietnam for the acquisition of Indian defense systems during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Hanoi in September 2016. There has been no information on exactly how that fund will be used, aside from $99 million allocated to produce an undisclosed number of patrol craft for Vietnam’s coast guard, including the license for Vietnam to begin local production. Vietnam may also move toward the acquisition of the BrahMos anti-ship missile (discussed below), though no agreement was reached during Indian Minister of Defense Manohar Parrikar’s visit to Hanoi in June 2016.

Vietnam is also trying to acquire niche capabilities to make up for shortfalls in its existing arsenal. One example is the Italian Pluto Plus mine-identification unmanned underwater vehicle, which was revealed in May 2016. It will assist Soviet 1960s _Yurka_ minesweepers currently, but at the very end of their service life, with the VPAN. This acquisition also shows the VPA’s penchant for integrating older Russian systems with new Western weapons and equipment, and for looking westward for new purchases when it needs to. That being said, the skeleton of the VPA’s armory remains Russian, now and at least in the near future. And attempts at integrating Western and Soviet/Russian platforms have historically not gone well.

In sum, Vietnam’s naval developments to date have been impressive. Between 2011 and 2015, naval vessels accounted for 44 percent of defense imports. We expect in the coming years for Vietnam to continue with this trajectory, though at a slower rate as the new focus will be on the ground force. Maritime acquisitions will continue, yet the navy remains a small service arm that is unlikely to grow significantly.

*Air Force*

Vietnam’s maritime power projection capabilities have not been matched in the air. With extremely costly platforms, Vietnam has lagged in training and maintenance. In 2016 alone, Vietnam suffered the losses of four aircraft (a Su-30MK2 multirole fighter, a CASA 212 patrol/transport turboprop, an L-39 training jet, and an EC-130 helicopter) from its small fleet, killing 13 personnel.

Between 1994-1996 Vietnam acquired a full regiment of Su-27s from Russia. Though it suffered only one loss, they are nearing the end of the airframe lifespans. There are reports that Vietnam is currently overhauling the fleet, both airframes and avionics, to extend their lifespan.

From 2003-2016, Vietnam acquired 36 Su-30s, or three regiments. At least three regiments, one each of Su-27s, Su-30s, and L-39s, are not complete due to crashes and maintenance issues.






_Su-30s_


Vietnam is currently deliberating the replacement for its large fleet of 1960s era MiG-21s (144) and even the Su-22s, although the latter are still in service. The per-unit cost of modern fourth generation fighters precludes a one-to-one replacement for these aircraft. Vietnam is currently exploring the purchase of the French Rafale and Swedish Gripen (also in the Thai inventory). Though there have been press reports that Vietnam is considering the U.S. F-16 as a possible contender, this is highly unlikely due to U.S. concerns over technology transfer to third parties, as well as Vietnam’s apprehension about purchasing second-hand equipment.

With the lifting of the U.S. arms embargo, further speculation fell on the Vietnamese acquisition of advanced maritime surveillance aircraft from the United States. The VPA sent a team to Hawaii in April 2016 to observe the P-3C in action. Though Vietnam enjoys some high level Congressional support for arms sales, it is unlikely that they will receive approval for new and advanced P-3s, having to settle instead for used aircraft from either the United States or, more likely, Japan. While there are suggestions that Japan, having failed in its bid to sell its _Soryu-_class submarines to Australia, is keen to enter the global arms market with its Kawasaki P1 maritime surveillance aircraft, it is simply too expensive for Vietnam.

Other than combat aircraft, in 2014, Vietnam also purchased DHC-6 maritime patrol planes from Canada as well as several Casa C-295 military cargo planes from EADS to replace its aging fleet of Soviet An-26s.

The VPAAF also has requirements for additional helicopters. While there are a couple of military helicopter transportation regiments, most of the newest helicopters are assigned to the Ministry of National Defense’s 18th Corps, or the Vietnam Helicopter Corporation. It is equipped with aircraft such as the AgustaWestland AW-189, Eurocopter Super Puma and EC-225, and Russian Mi-171. During peacetime, these are used for economic purposes such as VIP transportation or HADR missions. Should war come, the VPA has suggested that the 18th Corps will be converted into two attack helicopter regiments. This would greatly augment the VPAAF rotary wing force and its close air support capability.

In sum, while strides have been made and will be made in the near future, air force modernization is falling short compared to naval modernization. Between 2011-15, air acquisitions accounted for 37 percent of total imports, not far below the navy’s 44 percent, which has seen far more hardware brought on line. The costs of the platforms, training, and maintenance have made the high accident rates unsustainable.

*Ground Forces*

The VPA dominates Vietnam’s defense in manpower, though the size of the force has gradually been cut. It remains wedded to its long history and doctrine of people’s warfare. As such, it has lagged behind in modernization. However, General Vo Van Tuan, VPA vice chief of staff, recently announced that ground force modernization will be the next focus of defense modernization. Under the current defense law, the size of the VPA’s ground forces should be kept at or near the current level.

A main focus is the armored force. Vietnam has already purchased the KZKT-7428 heavy tank tractor from Russia in preparation for the arrival of a new main battle tank and recently the head of the Russian tank producer Uralvagonzavod revealed that Hanoi is currently negotiating with them for the purchase of modern T-90MS tanks, with the final numbers of tanks and price not yet concluded. Yet, due to the price, Vietnam is unlikely to replace its huge corps of T-55 tanks on a one-to-one basis. As such it is aiming to upgrade its T-55 with a new fire control system and additional armor so as to be more capable in modern warfare.

Vietnam is also studying the French 155 mm CAESAR artillery system. A French website said that Nexter, the producer of CAESAR artillery system, revealed that Vietnam has ordered 18 such systems, of a total 108. This has not been verified. Acquiring a 155 mm-caliber system means moving away from the Soviet 152 mm system, and if the acquisition is true, it presents another challenge and strain for the VPA logistic branch.

The ground force also needs new Infantry Fighting Vehicles and Armored Personnel Carriers, as its arsenal mostly consists of the 1960-era BTR-60s and BMP-1s. However, it needs to compete with the Marine Corps for the funding for this upgrade, as the Marines are also relying heavily on outdated BMP-1s and PT-76s and also need new amphibious IFVs and APCs. It is possible that the ground force has to contend with updates for its vehicles, while the Marines are slated for new ones; the latter has been featured in state media recently, training for island recapture and amphibious landing using APCs and amphibious tanks, showing their importance.

Vietnam has made significant investments in modernizing its small arms for its ground forces. Vietnam has purchased the Galil assault rifle from Israel for general issue for its ground forces, while acquiring Tavor assault rifles, Negev machine guns, and Galatz sniper rifles for the Marine Corps. Vietnam has obtained a production license for the Galil family of weaponry and is now indigenously producing NATO ammunition (NATO 5.56×45) for them.

While the ground force remains the most favored and politically influential of the service arms, to date the Navy and the Air Force have seen far greater investment in their modernization due to their pertinence to the South China Sea dispute. The issue for ground force modernization is of course resources. The numbers of pieces of equipment in block modernization programs are enormous. Yet Vietnamese military planners remain concerned about Chinese PLA modernization and ability to make swift small-scale incursions, unlike their costly, large-scale 1978-79 invasion.

*Missiles*

While most of the attention in the western media has focused on Vietnam’s new maritime capabilities, it is actually their missile force that probably gives Chinese defense planners the greatest cause for alarm. Vietnam has recently negotiated on purchasing advanced hypersonic BrahMos cruise missiles from India/Russia, as well as submarine- and ship-launched Klub missiles to target Chinese facilities in the Spratlys and Paracels. China clearly has lobbied Russia to block the sale of the BrahMos missiles, but it appears that the deal is proceeding.






_EXTRA land attack missile_


Vietnam is also in possession of Scud surface-to-surface ballistic missiles, which it imported from North Korea in the 1990s. These are currently based at Bien Hoa, and with a supposed range of 500 km, they can reach the whole of Cambodia and the westernmost Spratly islands. The chief of the artillery branch has said that in the near future, Vietnam will procure a new ballistic surface-to-surface missile, though there are other more pressing acquisitions.

Recently, SIPRI and Vietnamese state media revealed that Vietnam has acquired EXTRA and ACCULAR surface-to-surface guided rockets with extremely high accuracy, with 150 km and 40 km ranges, respectively. These are presumably based around Cam Ranh, but foreign reports have surfaced that this equipment may have been moved to Vietnamese held features in the Spratlys. The accuracy of these reports have not been confirmed, and Vietnam has denied conducting such a move. Recently, there have been articles titled “The duty of EXTRA system in protecting the sea and islands” on the Vietnamese media; yet, even with a range of 150 km and based at Cam Ranh, these systems cannot reach any disputed islands, while being stationed at Spratlys will help Vietnam threaten any Chinese installation nearby. The system adds another layer to Vietnam’s coastal defenses.

Currently, Vietnam is fielding three coastal defense missile units: one in Hai Phong, equipped with the Redut system with a range of 460 km (to counter any Chinese efforts to blockade the Gulf of Tonkin using the Hainan Island bases); one in Da Nang, with the Rubezh system and 80 km range; and the most modern one in Ninh Thuan, just south of Cam Ranh, with the Russian-built Bastion-P system and a 300 km range. A fourth unit is being built at Phu Yen, north of Cam Ranh; it is very probable that this regiment will also be equipped with the Bastion-P system, or maybe even a BrahMos system. The new regiment will cover the last unprotected coastal stretch of Central Vietnam, as well as providing additional protection for Cam Ranh Bay, where the most costly and modern VPAN assets are based.

Vietnam has also acquired a new short-medium range air defense battery from Israel, the SPYDER system. These serve to augment the long range S-300 and the older short-range S-125 and Strela-10 systems that Vietnam currently fields. The SPYDER are positioned close to Hanoi, providing another layer of air defense for the capital. At present, Vietnam has only acquired one regiment from Israel, but news articles say that they want at least four regiments to be deployed across the country. This is a major acquisition from Israel, a country with whom Vietnam hopes to increase defense cooperation.

*ISR*

Despite the rapid acquisition of kinetic assets, Vietnam’s ISR (intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance) capabilities are relatively poor. It has repeatedly been surprised by Chinese operations in the South China Sea.

Vietnam recently acquired the Coast Watcher 100 Long Range Coastal Surveillance Radar from France, which provides over the horizon surveillance of up to 170 km and can detect approaching ships in all weather. It can also detect low-flying threats such as helicopters. This system is positioned in the Spratlys, where it allows Vietnam to have a full surveillance and detection in the islands.

Vietnamese media revealed that Vietnam has purchased a Japanese ASNARO-2 Earth Observation Satellite. It is capable of taking high resolution pictures at night and in cloudy conditions, and can be used for military purposes. The results from this satellite, coupled with access to an Indian satellite following a 2016 agreement to place a satellite tracking and imaging center in Vietnam, will offer the VPA unprecedented tracking capability in the South China Sea. It is expected that ASNARO-2 will be launched in 2017.







_ASNARO-2 Spy Satellite_



VietTel, the VPA-owned telecommunication company, already produces warning radars to support anti-air missile batteries and recently developed a new C4ISR system for the VPA. It has developed several small UAVs and is aiming to manufacture a high-altitude long-endurance drone with Belorussian cooperation. The UAV HS-6L, unveiled in December 2015, has an endurance of 35 hours and a range of 4,000 km and will greatly increase Vietnam ISR capability over the South China Sea. Vietnam is also leasing a Heron long-endurance UAV from Israel, and is clearly seeking to gain technology transfer. These will further support Vietnam’s effort to track new development in the South China Sea.

*Conclusion*

Vietnam undoubtedly has made great strides in its military and defense capability, yet it remains to be seen how they will absorb these new systems and link them all together in a credible and effective modern doctrine. Training, especially on incorporating and operating new weapon systems, also needs to be improved. Nevertheless, the large investment over the past couple of decades has given the VPA great potential. How defense planners harness these capabilities and fulfill that potential remains an open question. The forthcoming defense white paper should present crucial details on how the VPA views its roles and responsibilities.

For the near future, we can expect to see more new weaponry and equipment, such as armored vehicles and artillery systems, be purchased and developed for ground forces. However, modernization for the Navy and the Air Force will not slow down much: new surface ships are being negotiated and self-produced, and a new lightweight fighter jet will be chosen. Maritime and aerial capabilities will continue to be augmented, as well as ISR, due to urgent needs in the South China Sea.

But in the final analysis, we still do not know what Vietnam’s current defense strategy is, beyond fielding a minimal credible deterrent. At present the current strategy seems to be simply to sow seeds of concern in the eyes of Chinese military planners. But with the asymmetry in Chinese defense spending, that approach might not be sustainable.

_Zachary Abuza, PhD, is a Professor at the National War College where he specializes in Southeast Asian security issues. The views expressed here are his own, and not the views of the Department of Defense or National War College. Follow him on Twitter @ZachAbuza. _

_Nguyen Nhat Anh is a graduate of the University of Texas at Dallas, where he focused on International Political Economy. You can follow him on Twitter @anhnnguyen93. _

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> *Vietnam's Military Modernization*


Good article, although it lacks critical information as both authors are not living in Vietnam.

Anyway, new toy for the flyboys.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Good article, although it lacks critical information as both authors are not living in Vietnam.
> 
> Anyway, new toy for the flyboys.


a heavy variant of antiship missile?

bro, the article lacks of critical information because neither authors work for Vietnam armed forces, not because they don't live in the country, I believe


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## Aqsuperman

So I seriously think that if anyone in the future want to make WW2 film, VN is place to go lo. The maintenance personnel sure do one hell of a job to keep these in workable conditions.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> a heavy variant of antiship missile?
> 
> bro, the article lacks of critical information because neither authors work for Vietnam armed forces, not because they don't live in the country, I believe


Extended-range anti-radiation missile, reportedly Kh-31PD variant.

We have both the Kh-31A (AShM) and Kh-31P (ARM), along with their newer variants.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> So I seriously think that if anyone in the future want to make WW2 film, VN is place to go lo. The maintenance personnel sure do one hell of a job to keep these in workable conditions.


I think too. As long as the equipments are in good shape there is no reason for not keeping them in stock.



Silent Knight said:


> Extended-range anti-radiation missile, reportedly Kh-31PD variant.
> 
> We have both the Kh-31A (AShM) and Kh-31P (ARM), along with their newer variants.


the diplomat article I posted above mentions the chief of artillery corps wanting a new ballistic missile. I wonder what type of missile it can be? A high accurate missile with capacity to hit a target at 1,000 km distance would be nice.


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## Viet

I believe such thing is only seen in Vietnam: mobile sat communications on a Mitsubishi offroad car.
















on a recent exercise

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## Viet

training course for new recuits, modernized medium range surface to air missile *S-75M3*

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> the diplomat article I posted above mentions the chief of artillery corps wanting a new ballistic missile. I wonder what type of missile it can be? A high accurate missile with capacity to hit a target at 1,000 km distance would be nice.


Iskander, LORA, you name it.

Unfortunately the MTCR limits our options to 300km-range missile. If you want a longer range? Technology transfer or buy it secretly.


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## Viet

Red Star news (Russia) quotes Vladimir Popov, a rep of Yaroslavsky shipyard, the company may export landing craft "21820 Dyugon" class to Vietnam. especial bonbon for Vietnam Navy: the craft can be configured as Club-K cruise missile launcher or classical assualt ship for the Marine Corps.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Iskander, LORA, you name it.
> 
> Unfortunately the MTCR limits our options to 300km-range missile. If you want a longer range? Technology transfer or buy it secretly.


yes that is true. although the missile control regime is voluntary, I doubt any country be it Russia or India would sell or transfer any long range missile to our missile corps as they don´t want to anger a certain country too much. it can be the best option if we can develop in secrecy the scud to a long range modernizied version as the north koreans have done it.

Vietnams scud missile







or (it is not a possilibity yet though) we seek a missile shield from the strong military partner. US Admiral Harry Harris visits Vietnam coast guard 2 days ago. has he promised to build up our Coast guard fleet?


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## Silent Knight

Scud is an aging system with not many options for modernization in the future.

It'll be better to invest in newer systems like Iskander and LORA, although their range is limited.


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## Viet

haven´t heard anything of @Carlosa since a while

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## Viet

despite all talks and reports of the foreign media on Vietnam military build-up, which allegedly the biggest since end of Vietnam war, in reality the modernization and arms build up are slow and very humble. an example: the airforce seeks assistance of Russia to upgrade An-2 planes, that entered service when most of the posters here are not born 
*

Vietnam, Russia in Talks on Modernizing An-2 Planes - Russian Institute*

Military & Intelligence
06:59 28.10.2016





_Vietnam An-2 plane_

Vietnam is in talks with Russia’s Siberian Aeronautical Research Institute on modernization of tens of An-2 cargo planes (NATO reporting name Colt) which were supplied to the country by the Soviet Union, the institute’s financial director said. According to him, the planes’ hulls and engines will be modernized.

"Representatives of Vietnam who came for the institute’s 75th birthday expressed their interest in cooperation on modernization of An-2 planes belonging to their national air forces, the fleet of which stands at 40 vehicles. After this, they sent us a corresponding business proposal," Igor Shubin told the Izvestiya newspaper in an interview released on Friday. Shubin added that a number of Asian countries have in recent years expressed interest in modernizing their An-2 planes.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201610281046821978-vietnam-russia-an2-modernization/


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## Silent Knight

The very first picture of Su-30MK2V no. 8594 in Vietnam. It was delivered in April, but the Russian was requested to keep silence until 6 months later.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> haven´t heard anything of @Carlosa since a while



Carlosa is very busy in Thailand but never too far from the thread. I'll get back to normal next week. Keep up the good work.

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## Silent Knight

Might as well post another picture of the 8594, one of the last Su-30MK2 ever produced


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## GS Zhou

lonelyman said:


> U still keep old junk like An-2 and scud? u think we worry about the stuff Russia sold to you?  With a phone call from Beijing, any sales of real potential threat will be blocked
> 
> Fact is China matters much much more to Russia, her only ally to counter USA while u guys are nothing to them
> And USA build missile shields for VCP, what are u smoking?


Hi dude, no need to make the posts like this. Y-5 (运五, the Chinese equivalent of An-2 ) is still in service in PLA Airforce today, for the basic paratroops training. Although I'm also a bit surprised to see Vietnam still needs to get the assistance from Russia for the An-2 overhaul. 

Anyway, Vietnam has its right to make its military forces modernized.

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## Silent Knight

^ See? This kind of altitude makes people hostile.

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## Aqsuperman

And why not a single person here comes to China thread and actually "trash talking", we still occasionally got a few guys like above came over and started twisting around then end it with "nobody give a shit" ? Oh that is funny, then what the fck are you doing here if you dont care ? We force you to read our "trash talking" or stuff like that ? Fact ? Oh the fact is contradicted retards are simply scum which think the world only revolve around them and in their own super duper ideal way, that is a fact. "Polity" my ***, you frigging troll. 

Put that aside now, this is the high time for local militia exercise in the year. And we can see a wide collection of last century weapons. And those weapons operate just fine in the hands of troops that way younger than them.

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## Shotgunner51

Members: This sticky thread serves as a "sub-forum" for Vietnamnese defence-related topics, please post properly, thanks.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Hi dude, no need to make the posts like this. Y-5 (运五, the Chinese equivalent of An-2 ) is still in service in PLA Airforce today, for the basic paratroops training. Although I'm also a bit surprised to see Vietnam still needs to get the assistance from Russia for the An-2 overhaul.
> 
> Anyway, Vietnam has its right to make its military forces modernized.


the an-2 planes will get new engines, the hulls receive a facelift. After the upgrade, the range will increase to 3,000 km, so double the current range the plane has at the moment. also the upgrade will enable the plane to take off on short runway. Since the aircraft is soviet origin, it makes sense to seek assistance from the Russians.



Carlosa said:


> Carlosa is very busy in Thailand but never too far from the thread. I'll get back to normal next week. Keep up the good work.


Good to hear you are well


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## Viet

...posting pictures of foreign minister of Germany Frank Steinmeier´s three day visit to Vietnam. interesting, the german government names Vietnam as strategic partner and emerging economic power. The latter title (Wirtschaftsmacht) is especially interesting considering there are only few countries in the world Germany views as Wirtschaftsmacht. What has the news anything to do with defense? I will write it later. Possibly.

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/nn_5.../Vietnam/161028_Reise_Vietnam.html?nnm=582138

arrival in Hanoi





opening a factory of Knauf in Haiphong


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## Silent Knight

I expect some MTU engine deals and possibly a memorandum for the Type-214


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> I expect some MTU engine deals and possibly a memorandum for the Type-214


german attack submarines?

That will be pretty cool! I hope to see some powerful type such as the one, that is delivered to the Israeli.

What are the MTU engines used for? any special vessel in particular?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> german attack submarines?
> 
> That will be pretty cool! I hope to see some powerful type such as the one, that is delivered to the Israeli.
> 
> What are the MTU engines used for? any special vessel in particular?


No vessel at the moment. But it'll be a very good replacement for the engine on Gepard class frigate and future Molniya missile boats.

The Type-214 was mentioned in unofficial discussion since 2014. However, nothing has come out of it.

Also, old girl but still lethal.


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## TenLua

Silent Knight said:


> ^ See? This kind of altitude makes people hostile.



Better hope there's a billion like him.

I will ride my victory chariot and my flag will be seen.


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## Aqsuperman

In an effort to somewhat strengthen the domestic armament industry and the ability to self-sufficient, Vn has invest lots of money and manpower for this goal. Here is the newest lot of hand held and crew serve weapon weapons.


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## GS Zhou

Aqsuperman said:


> In an effort to somewhat strengthen the domestic armament industry and the ability to self-sufficient, Vn has invest lots of money and manpower for this goal. Here is the newest lot of hand held and crew serve weapon weapons.



No offense. But the displays you show are not convincing at all. They can hardly prove your point that "Vn has invest lots of money and manpower for domestic weapon industry"

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## Viet

some more pics of Frank Steinmeier visit to the coming Wirtschaftsmacht Vietnam 

opening a new german house (Deustches Haus) funded by Germany in Saigon, a meeting point for science, business, politics and international relations.



















Meeting with members of Vietnam government. Germany wants to promote western ideals of openness and liberty.










opening a new study course in german and european laws at Hanoi Law University


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## GS Zhou

xiao qi said:


> Thank for your sharing , so What do you think Vietnam should do in the near future to protect our shipbuilding manufactory?





GS Zhou said:


> My suggestions to the Vietnam Shipbuilding sector:
> 
> 
> *Be very very careful to the new investment to shipbuilding industry.* I don't want to say to stop all new investment, you definitely don't want to hear it. But I do think Vietnam government should be more and more cautious on approving any new investment to this sector. It is now becoming more and more difficult to find sufficient new demand to feed the existing capacity, needless to say feeding any new capacity.
> 
> 
> *Request the state-owned shipping company to place orders to the domestic shipyards.* The difficulty here is, the pocket-size of the VN state-owned shipping company is too small to feed the domestic yard. In addition, price of the second-hand ship is eroding very fast. So for many small shipping companies with financial constraints, they usually prefer to purchase second hand ships, rather than new ships. So if VCP really wants to push the SOE shipping companies to procure domestically-made new ships, VCP, or eventually the tax payers like you, will have to finance the procurement.
> 
> 
> *Give fiscal subsidies to foreign investors,* like Hyundai Vinashin. I believe VCP has already offered big tickets subsidies to Hyundai Vinashin, otherwise it is really difficult to convince the Korean guys to stay in Vietnam. In the end, Hyundai comes to Vietnam for making profits, not for making charity. Right?
> 
> 
> *Pray for a sudden recovery of the global economy. *This is the easiest way, but I really doubt its usefulness.


off topic.

@xiao qi , here is the most recent news about Korean government's new move to save its dying shipbuilding industry. Almost identical to what I said last week: cut the capacity, place more domestic orders, plus heavy financial subsidies. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-billion-by-2020-to-support-shipping-industry

Korea to Spend $9.6 Billion by 2020 to Support Shipbuilding

South Korea, home to the world’s three biggest shipbuilders, plans to spend about 11 trillion won ($9.6 billion) by 2020 to help the industry amid a dearth of new orders and prolonged losses.

The government intends to *order more than 250 vessels and provide about 6.5 trillion won in financing support* to strengthen shipping companies’ efficiency through the end of this decade, Finance Minister Yoo Il-ho said Monday. Hyundai Heavy Industries Co., the world’s biggest shipbuilder, will spin off its non-shipbuilding businesses, while Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co., the second biggest, plans to cut 5,500 jobs by 2018, according to the government.

*The so-called Big Three (Hyundai, Daewoo, and Sumsung) will cut 32 percent of their direct workforce by 2018 and reduce their operations by 23 percent,* according to the government. The Korea Labor Institute estimated another 40,000 jobs, which will be mostly subcontract workers, may be eliminated in the second half amid a decline in orders.

“Aggressive restructuring will be carried out to ensure financial soundness of the companies in case the dire situation prolongs and they would be ready should things start to recover,” Yoo said. “Companies will be monitored regularly on their restructuring progress and prevented from winning offshore orders at low prices.”
The minister was at a government meeting on steps to be taken for the shipbuilding and shipping industries.
As part of measures to support the shipping industry, *South Korea will double the size of a fund to help shipping companies order more vessels, including bulk carriers, tankers and container ships, to $2.4 billion from $1.2 billion, according to a government statement Monday.*

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> No offense. But the displays you show are not convincing at all. They can hardly prove your point that "Vn has invest *lots* of money and manpower for domestic weapon industry"


"lots" is a relative word and should be viewed in a perspective that may be unfamiliar to China.

Let´s me explain a bit.

the word means we invest more money into defense than it should be in peacetime. Vietnam military doctrine is maintaining a minimum of a standing army in peacetime, and mobilizing all resources in wartime. there is a thousand year old saying in Vietnam: in peacetime a good man does not join the army. due to tension in the region and the threat of China, we are forced to increase spending than it should be. that is something nobody in Vietnam wants. not in peacetime. in case if you haven´t noticed, unlike other countries such as Thailand or Philippines, the Viet army only plays a minor role in the politics, traditionally always be loyal to the ruler of the country.

coming back. lots means little to you, but more than usually the case for Vietnam.


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## Viet

the next guest to the Camranh bay for a 6-day visit: Australia Frigate HMAS Warramunga


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> No offense. But the displays you show are not convincing at all. They can hardly prove your point that "Vn has invest lots of money and manpower for domestic weapon industry"


"Lots" is pretty objective and no one knows how much is "lots".


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## Carlosa

*Phuong Nguyen -- High ambitions, tall orders for Vietnam's military*
*http://asia.nikkei.com/Viewpoints/V...ons-tall-orders-for-Vietnam-s-military?page=1
*




The Vietnam People's Army is undergoing quiet yet formative changes, as it takes on a growing strategic role in the country's defense and foreign policy. © AP

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte's recent moves toward rapprochement with Beijing will likely make Vietnam -- and its fast-growing military -- a more important actor in geopolitics in the South China Sea. Yet Hanoi's push to quickly modernize the Vietnam People's Army in the face of China's expansionism in the South China Sea has been too rapidly equated with a number of big-ticket arms purchases made over the past decade. This simplistic view, however, risks overlooking the quiet yet formative changes taking place inside Vietnam's military, and playing down the VPA's growing strategic role in defense and foreign policymaking.

Until the early 2000s, the VPA remained a land-based force still adjusting to peacetime duties, following the decade-long Cambodia conflict -- which officially ended in October 1991 -- and amid Vietnam's economic opening. In the intervening years, faced with rising tensions in the South China Sea over maritime territorial disputes with China, the VPA embarked on a mission to remake itself from scratch into a professional and modern force able to field a credible deterrent in the maritime realm. This effort rests on three important pillars, which in turn inform the military actions Vietnam has taken and will take in the future, especially in the South China Sea.

*Combat ready*

The first is an ongoing project officially called "Adjustments to the VPA's organization until 2020." The objective is to turn the Vietnamese military into a "compact, powerful, mobile, and flexible" fighting force. Under this pillar, the priorities are to fully modernize the Vietnamese navy, air force, and coast guard, and to conduct technological research in the areas of communications, electronic combat, and technical reconnaissance. Hanoi's purchases from Russia of Kilo-class submarines, Gepard-class frigates, and Su-30 MK2 fighter jets; the procurement of new patrol vessels for the coast guard; and upgrade of its coastal air defense missile system in recent years have helped significantly to strengthen the VPA.

At the same time, Hanoi has focused increasingly on improving the quality of military education and training. When the new Chief of General Staff and Deputy Defense Minister Lt. Gen Phan Van Giang addressed military officers in August, he reiterated that building a "compact, powerful, mobile, and flexible" military required a transformation in both equipment and personnel.

Vietnam's nine military regions -- geographically divided -- have been steadily stepping up the pace of their exercises, training courses, and contingency planning to reflect real-life combat conditions. Under the modernization push, commanding officers and political commissars alike are expected to stay abreast of the evolving regional security outlook, study the defense and security strategies of major countries, and help adjust Vietnam's own strategy accordingly.

Meanwhile, the leadership of the ruling communist party is paying close attention to monitoring the Ministry of National Defense's "Campaign 50," a program to ensure that rank-and-file soldiers fully master newly acquired weapons and technology.

It is a formidable challenge for the fast-modernizing military, and as a result, the VPA has gained greater confidence in operating in the maritime domain. Vietnam put its first Kilo-class submarine on patrol runs along its coast last year and its new submarine fleet will be fully operational by the end of 2017. The navy's infantry force earlier this year conducted an exercise simulating the recapture of an outcrop in the South China Sea, amid persisting anxiety in Hanoi over what China might do once it has completed construction of facilities in the disputed Spratly Islands.

Of particular note is the live-fire air defense exercise conducted in northern Vietnam in October by units from three of the nine military regions, under the auspices of the army and the navy. The combined exercise was an early indicator of the VPA's plan to eventually operate under a future joint command system. Reports in August that Vietnam has deployed mobile rocket launchers to five of its outposts in the Spratly Islands, capable of striking nearby Chinese-built runways, signal that the defense establishment is now playing a decisive role in Hanoi to help manage the South China Sea situation.

*Industry investment*

The second pillar of military modernization is the implementation of the Politburo's 2011 resolution on "Building and Developing Defense Industry to 2020 and Beyond," the goal of which is to gradually build an "independent, self-reliant, and modern defense industry." According to government data, 80% of weapons and equipment supplied by the domestic defense industry are the products of indigenous research, implying that the remainder comes through licensed co-production with or assistance from foreign partners.

Vietnam's nascent defense industry has experienced a number of milestones in recent years. The country last year launched its largest indigenous unmanned aerial vehicle, which will soon begin flight tests over the South China Sea. UAV research and development continues to be an area of high priority, as Hanoi looks urgently to fill gaps in its maritime domain awareness.

Shipbuilding is another area in which Hanoi has invested significantly. Over the past seven years, local shipyards have produced Molniya-class fast-attack missile ships and TT-400TP gunboats for the navy based on Russian designs, alongside tugboats and multi-mission patrol vessels for the coast guard with licensing and supervision from Netherlands-based Damen Group.

Given that Russia remains Vietnam's largest arms provider, and as Moscow seems to periodically tilt toward Beijing's position on the South China Sea dispute, Vietnam's military increasingly wants to develop local maintenance capabilities for its seagoing assets. The country's air force, known officially as the Air Defence-Air Force, in 2013 launched a local maintenance line for the Russian-made Su-30 and Su-27 fighter aircraft, demonstrating a desire to rely more on the local defense industry for maintenance and repairs.

There are also signs of Hanoi's eagerness to diversify its sources of outside procurement, particularly after the full normalization of relations with the U.S. earlier this year. For example, in October, the Vietnamese coast guard launched a ship maintenance facility in central Vietnam that was built with U.S. support, in a ceremony attended by U.S. Pacific Command Chief Adm. Harry Harris.

*Regional ties*

Finally, the Vietnam's military has gained a mandate by the ruling Communist Party to use defense diplomacy in ways that serve the country's national interests and enhance the other two pillars. India has been a particularly trusted partner in this effort. The two defense establishments last year launched an information technology training center for the VPA's signal arm, and will begin work on a software development park for the VPA soon. New Delhi has reportedly agreed to help Hanoi build a satellite tracking and data reception center in southern Vietnam that will give the latter access to Indian satellite imagery, including over parts of coastal China and the South China Sea.

Vietnam has also tapped into cooperation with other like-minded strategic partners, including the U.S. and Japan, to address security challenges in the South China Sea. The U.S., for instance, is working on delivering six high-speed patrol boats to the Vietnamese coast guard as part of an $18 million maritime security assistance package. From this year, Washington began helping Vietnam to develop its unmanned maritime capabilities, mainly through training, while joint exercises between the two navies and air forces have grown in scope and complexity with every passing year. Hanoi and Washington last year signed a joint vision statement on defense relations that committed both sides to future coproduction of military equipment, a development that could prove transformational in the long run.

Vietnam has indicated it has no desire to engage in an armed conflict with China. Yet it also needs to fully modernize its military, given the wide asymmetry in military capabilities between the two uneasy neighbors. Vietnamese military officers have been emphasizing with greater frequency the need to maintain "combat readiness" across all units, military regions, and service branches. Anyone familiar with Vietnamese history and nationalism knows that such calls are not mere rhetoric.

As Hanoi continues to invest in this endeavor -- the defense budget is expected to reach $5 billion this year, or 2.6% of gross domestic product, and exceed $6 billion by 2020 -- the VPA will look drastically different over the coming decades. One challenge, though, will remain constant: China's ever-growing military sophistication and confidence at sea.






_Phuong Nguyen is a WSD-Handa fellow at the Pacific Forum CSIS and adjunct fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C._

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## Viet

Not a major thing, but small steps. made in Vietnam stuffs on display.


targets for live fire trainings






communications device














fume emitting engine for camouflage






armor piercing RPG-9







warship model for training purposes






shoes


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## Viet

training model for the Coast Guard






model for infantry






radioactivity detector (costs less than 1/20 of similar imported device)






something for frogmen






model for training of mechanicals






UAV






battle proven rice cooker, workable in panzer 






vacuum cup


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## Viet

a new grenade


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## Nike

that's mortar munition


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> that's mortar munition


ups you are right. it is mortar.


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## Carlosa

*Superior in Every Way: Why Vietnam Wants Russia's 'Dolphin' Rescue Ship*

*https://sputniknews.com/military/201611031047039637-russia-rescue-ship-dolphin-vietnam/*

*



*

Last week the Russian newspaper Izvestiya reported that Russia's 21300C Delfin (Dolphin) search and rescue ship has interested the Vietnamese Defense Ministry.
Early last month, the Vietnamese military asked Russian diplomats for information about the price of the rescue ship and its equipment; India has also expressed an interest.

The 21300C is constructed at the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau in St. Petersburg, which has so far provided one of the ships to the Russian Navy, named "Igor Belousov" in honor of the outstanding shipbuilding engineer.

Igor Belousov has a water displacement of 5,000 metric tons, and is 100 meters long and 17 meters wide. The ship's speed can reach 15 knots (28 km/h), it can travel up to 3,500 nautical miles without refueling, and carries a crew of 100 sailors.

The ship's primary purpose is search and rescue, and it boasts advanced equipment for finding ships and submarines in distress, as well as hydrographic equipment for studying the physical features of oceans and coastal areas.

_The Igor Belousov search and rescue ship during sea trials._

The head constructor of the 21300C Dolphin, Alexander Forst, told Sputnik that years of experience enabled the Almaz shipyard to produce the sought-after ship.

"In the 1960s the Soviet search and rescue fleet was recognized as the best in the world. It is true that these traditions became a little lost, but the rich traditions accumulated over decades and sea rescue experiences are embodied in this ship," Forst said.

The ship can carry out a full range of rescue operations, and is fitted with radar, sonar and aerial technology, enabling it to find missing accident victims, navigational instruments and communications.





© Sputnik/ Vitaliy Ankov

The operation panel of the altitude chamber at the Igor Belousov search and rescue vessel during a submarine crew rescue drill by the sea rescue service of the Pacific Fleet in the Peter the Great Gulf

"Here Dolphin's capabilities are similar to analogous foreign models from Italy, Japan, Korea, Sweden and China. However, it also has some unique characteristics. Firstly, its deep-water apparatus gives it increased seaworthiness during operations. The second feature of Dolphin is the stationary decompression station, which provides a safe descent for divers and effective decompression for rescued submariners."
"The third distinguishing feature is the single power system. Two power plants (comprised of six diesel generators) are located in different compartments, but they work as one power plant, automatically providing complete reliability," Forst explained.





© Sputnik/ Vitaliy Ankov

The Igor Belousov search and rescue vessel lifting on board a Bester-1 deep submergence vehicle during a submarine crew rescue drill by the sea rescue service of the Pacific Fleet in the Peter the Great Gulf

Two Katran fast rescue boats are also on board the 21300C, whose engines are powerful enough to tow life rafts from the emergency vessel. The Katran are fitted with special devices to pull stricken sailors out of the water, even if they have lost consciousness.
The 21300C is also equipped with the "Bester" standalone deepwater rescue apparatus, which is capable of diving to a depth of 720 meters and docking with a distressed submarine, even at an angle of 45 degrees. During one dive, the unit is capable of saving up to 22 people.





© Sputnik/ Vitaliy Ankov

Transporting a submariner from the board of the Igor Belousov vessel during a submarine crew rescue drill by the sea rescue service of the Pacific Fleet in the Peter the Great Gulf

"This apparatus was designed by the Lazurit design bureau in Nizhniy Novgorod; Dolphin only releases it into the water and lifts it back up. The device is immersed, carries out a search for the stricken submarine, docks, and literally pulls itself to the rescue compartment. By unfolding the hatches, the Bester crew help the submariners climb into it."
"Then, the device floats to the surface. Incidentally, Dolphin also has all the necessary equipment to provide medical care, including surgery," Forst said.





© Sputnik/ Vitaliy Ankov

Lowering a diving bell at the Igor Belousov search and rescue vessel during a submarine crew rescue drill by the sea rescue service of the Pacific Fleet in the Peter the Great Gulf

A helipad, fire-fighting equipment, remote-control operated diving vehicle, special suits for divers and rescuers and the latest diving bell can all be provided on board the 21300C, too.
The Russian navy's Igor Belousov arrived in the port of Vladivostok on September 4. On the way, the ship called at ports in Europe, North Africa and Asia, including India and Vietnam, where its capabilities earned the admiration of the local navy.





© Sputnik/ Georgiy Zimarev

As part of the Russian Navy's Pacific Fleet, the ship has already taken part in navy drills which demonstrated its superiority over foreign search and rescue ships, Forst said.

"The results of the exercise confirmed the complete compliance of the ship' design characteristics with the requirements for the vessel. A training dive with the Bester apparatus was carried out, which brought some "injured" sailors to the surface, transferred them to a decompression station and imitated decompression. It was proven that according to a range of criteria, Dolphin is superior to all foreign analogues," Forst concluded.

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> as well as hydrographic equipment for studying the physical features of oceans and coastal areas.


This is the key of buying Project 21300C


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## Aqsuperman

GS Zhou said:


> No offense. But the displays you show are not convincing at all. They can hardly prove your point that "Vn has invest lots of money and manpower for domestic weapon industry"



Well compare to VN army in the early 2000s, you can see that there is a significant gap including the the development of more effective anti tank missile like the PG-7VR above. And the deal of self - producing the Gali Ace with Israel assistance or the copying of foreign weapon like the Milkor MGL are also undeniable proof of VN investment. Not to mention that the ability to self - sufficient the ammunition supply for conventional assets is being perfected, these cannot be just a simple short - term action and must be a result of a long and difficult process. Surely its not as awesome as China but hey you have to start with some minor results first to get somewhere down the road, right ?

Maintaining US origin weaponry is always a big problem since we dont have that much of spare parts or ammunition but VN maintenance personnel happen to be quite skilled and the conditions of these weapon remain combat ready at moment notice.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> This is the key of buying Project 21300C


Is there any serious intention of buying the vessel?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Is there any serious intention of buying the vessel?


No idea.

But in the past, we had signed agreement and cooperation deal with Singapore in submarine rescue operations. Not sure how that'd turn out.


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## Carlosa

*Duterte rattles Vietnam in diplomatic dance with US, China- Nikkei Asian Review*
*http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Eco...les-Vietnam-in-diplomatic-dance-with-US-China
*
HANOI -- Vietnam used to think it could count on the Philippines to stand up against Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea with U.S. help.

But Manila's turn away from the U.S. under new President Rodrigo Duterte complicates Vietnam's efforts to steer a course between rising Asian power China and the U.S., with which it has sought to deepen ties.

Wavering, Vietnam dispatched a senior Communist Party official to China last month. Dinh The Huynh ranks fifth in the party's hierarchy and is a powerful force in the 19-member Politburo. He is seen as a potential successor to General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, the party's supreme leader.

Vietnam's historical and economic ties with China run deep. But the two countries are also embroiled in territorial disputes. Huynh told Chinese President Xi Jinping in an Oct. 20 meeting that it has been Vietnam's consistent strategy to strengthen relations with China. Two days later, Vietnam allowed Chinese warships to enter Cam Ranh Bay for the first time. 

Occupying one of the most strategic locations on the South China Sea, the bay sits just 550km from the Spratly Islands, the object of territorial disputes among a number of states, including Vietnam, China and the Philippines. The three Chinese navy ships simply made a port call, but Hanoi could have refused them entry out of deference to the U.S.

President Barack Obama, visiting Vietnam in May, announced that the U.S. would fully lift a four-decade-old arms embargo on the Southeast Asian nation. This opens up the possibility of the Vietnamese military adopting American-made weapons to replace the Russian gear it has long depended on. On Oct. 2, U.S. Navy ships entered Cam Ranh Bay for the first time since the end of the Vietnam War -- a historic event seen as a precursor to deeper military cooperation between the two countries.

"This was a major course change for Vietnam and a manifestation of a conscious effort to strike a balance between the U.S. and China," a government source said.

As if trying to embody this idea, Huynh jetted off to America after visiting China. During his nine-day trip -- unusually long for a Communist Party official -- he met with Secretary of State John Kerry and was apparently accompanied by Ted Osius, the U.S. ambassador to Vietnam. A Vietnam-based American journalist suspects Huynh was there to reassure U.S. officials about the bilateral relationship following the Chinese warships' Cam Ranh port call.

Vietnam's rapprochement with the U.S., which also included joining the U.S.-led Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade initiative, came as then-Philippine President Benigno Aquino's administration pushed back against China's growing blue-water presence.

The Aquino government sought arbitration in The Hague over the Philippines' maritime dispute with China, and in July received a favorable decision from an international tribunal. Back in 2014, Manila and Washington concluded a defense cooperation pact that was seen leading to a de facto return of U.S. forces to the Philippines for the first time in 25 years.

Vietnam took comfort in these developments, gaining the confidence that it, too, despite its lesser voice in international affairs, could resist China. But Hanoi did not suspect that Aquino's successor would goad America this far. Declaring a "separation" from the U.S., Duterte has vowed to end joint military exercises and wants "foreign" troops to leave the Philippines in two years. How much of this is bluster remains unclear. But Vietnam's assurance in the steadiness of the Philippines has slipped.

How Vietnam proceeds now will depend to a large extent on whether Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump wins Tuesday's U.S. presidential election. Huynh, who may one day lead his own country, no doubt had that on his mind during his U.S. trip.

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## Viet

News 
*Vietnam, China hold anti-terror drill on border area*
By Toan Dao 
November 5, 2016 | 10:23 am GMT+7






A scene from an anti-terror drill between Vietnamese and Chinese border guards on November 4, 2016. Photo courtesy Lao Dong newspaper


*The latest in a series of exercises designed to prevent cross-border terrorism.*

Border guards from the northern province of Quang Ninh and China’s Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region conducted an anti-terrorism exercise on Friday in an effort to enhance cooperation at border areas.

This is the first time that border guards from the two localities have held joint anti-terror operations, VietnamPlus reported on Friday.

The drill involved three terrorists using fake passports to enter China from Vietnam.

In the scenario, the two sides coordinated to arrest the terrorists before they could launch an attack, the news site said.

More than 100 border guards and state employees from Vietnam took part in the drill, the Voice of Vietnam reported, without providing the number from the Chinese side.

In September this year, 260 border guards from Vietnam’s northern province of Lao Cai also held an anti-terror drill with Chinese forces from Yunnan Province, VietnamPlus reported.

In July, border guards from Vietnam's northern province of Ha Giang and Yunnan conducted an anti-terror exercise to improve coordination efforts in border areas.

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## Viet

Senior Lt. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh, the head of Vietnam military strategy leads an army delegation to China, holding the 6th Vietnam-China Defense Strategic Dialogue in Chendu and Beijing. talks with China´s Defense Minister Chang Wanquan and Admiral Sun Jianguo. besides typical rhetorics, little is disclosed, but I guess, the talk is concentrated on how to control tension between the two armies, and especially for Vietnam very important, how to maintain the balance of power. the chinese should accept we seek external military powers as the United States and Japan to achieve that goal. it is not translating to we seek alliance with United States and Japan.


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## Viet

female militia

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## Viet

infantrymen

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## Silent Knight

Testing the AL-31FM1, reportedly.

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## Aqsuperman

Installing a missile quad launcher on a Molniya class missile ship. If operate under sufficient air cover from fighter and land-based anti-aircraft missiles batteries, these ships will provide somewhat adequate defense for the sea approach

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## Viet

Comparing to China massive land reclamation ours is virtually zero, but the first step is made.


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## Viet

some new created land are washed away by storms and typhoons we need special vessels and heavy machineries.


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## Viet




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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam armored vehicle stockpile.

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## Viet

one of the most forgotten countries in Europe, but has transformed itself from a poor nation into a economic tiger in the last decade: Ireland. President Michael D Higgins pays a 4 day state visit to Vietnam. besides several deals and agreements in economy, technology, software and education, this one is remarkable: a 2.2 billion wind power project by Irish company Mainstream Renewable Power. more interesting: Vietnam is the only country outside Sub-Saharan Africa, Ireland provides aid and continues to do so. we are too poor 

Higgins says something about the South China sea mess and pledges promoting Vietnamese community in Ireland, but I think it is better not to mention here. or maybe later


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## Viet

New pilots for the airforce





Newbies. I haven't seen such a thing elsewhere: a full sat operational unit is packed in a commercial Jeep.






Coast guard on exercise. More ships are coming, joining the coast guard, not only from domestic shipyards but from friends America, Japan and India.


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## Viet

Decision day! for the first time ever in history, it is expected that 300,000 ethnic Vietnamese in California with voting right will choose Hillary Clinton. a democrat. usually the majority of Vietnamese descent tend to vote Republicans. but Donald Trump with his anti immigration rhetorics and populistic policy has alienated many. some may say the number of 300,000 is not much, but in some cities and counties when every vote counts, the number can alter the balance. not only for California, also will be the same for other US states with sizeable viet population as Texas. I believe Hillary Clinton is good for us. for her all the best!

Hillary Clinton visit to Vietnam as Secretary of State.






the proud of Viet community in California: US senator Janet Nguyen (Republicans), but sorry, this time the majority will pick a Democrat.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I believe Hillary Clinton is good for us. for her all the best!
> 
> Hillary Clinton visit to Vietnam as Secretary of State.

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## grey boy 2

GS Zhou said:


>


Looks like Hillary Clinton going to lose the election which means TPP is as good as death lol


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## Viet

grey boy 2 said:


> Looks like Hillary Clinton going to lose the election which means TPP is as good as death lol


It is not over yet. Not all votes are counted. If I was you I wouldn't celebrate too early. Donald Trump is not only against free trade but against China.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> It is not over yet. Not all votes are counted. If I was you I wouldn't celebrate too early. Donald Trump is not only against free trade but against China.


I believed you got it wrong, no matter who wins the election, none of them will favor towards China.
Trump supporters in China likes him simply because he is Donald Trump.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> It is not over yet. Not all votes are counted. If I was you I wouldn't celebrate too early. Donald Trump is not only against free trade but against China.


I don't care about the voting result. The two candiate makes no difference to China. 

I'm just laughing at your convincing prediction made yesterday night. Haha


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I don't care about the voting result. The two candiate makes no difference to China.
> 
> I'm just laughing at your convincing prediction made yesterday night. Haha


I made no prediction who will win, just saying the majority of viet communities in the United States will vote Hillary Clinton. She is the architect for the US return to East Asia. Donald Trump is unpredictable, his intention for a policy shift, for another tone for East Asia will end in tears if becoming reality.


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## IblinI

lonelyman said:


> CA is a deep blue state, these votes matter as shit. Dumbass, did u know American politics, electoral system or not? No wonder it's wasting time talking with you guys, boasting TPP, celebrateing China fall, Vietnam rise, stupid always.


No need to be hype,show some respect.

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## GS Zhou

lonelyman said:


> CA is a deep blue state, these votes matter as shit. Dumbass, did u know American politics, electoral system or not? No wonder it's wasting time talking with you guys with Lowe IQ than pigs, boasting TPP, celebrateing China fall, Vietnam rise, stupid always.


To be honest, Viet is one of the most rational VN member on this forum. He is not bragging for TPP or China fall as hard as some other VN guys.


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## Viet

lonelyman said:


> CA is a deep blue state, these votes matter as shit. Dumbass, did u know American politics, electoral system or not? No wonder it's wasting time talking with you guys with IQ lower than pigs, boasting TPP, celebrateing China fall, Vietnam rise, stupid always.


No reason for you to explode and commit suicide. I don't think you are wasting time here because I don't remember have talked with you in person too much lately. Yes I admit am not an expert in US election system. In contrast you know CA is deep blue. and not deep red like communist China. By the way, pig is an intelligent animal. That is scientific proven.



GS Zhou said:


> To be honest, Viet is one of the most rational VN member on this forum. He is not bragging for TPP or China fall as hard as some other VN guys.


Thanks. If anyone checks all of my posts, I never link TPP with China fall and Vietnam rise because it is not directly related. We need TPP for different reasons I think nobody outside Vietnam will understand.


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## Aqsuperman

Meh, Viet you may want to consider to stop wrestling with the guy that extremely eager to smash the keyboard. Treat him like a dog, or a cute little puppy if you prefer it that way. After barking for a while with no reply, he will just wonder around looking for another place to throw out his awesome perception of the the world in his ideal dream  Just hope that we aren't there. 

Go back to idea of the thread, The second most popular SMG after the Uzi for Special Force and Police in Vietnam is the Pakistan-made PK-5. Common sight at Mobile Police Brigade or Counter Terrorist Units in important facilities and foreign embassy.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Meh, Viet you may want to consider to stop wrestling with the guy that extremely eager to smash the keyboard. Treat him like a dog, or a cute little puppy if you prefer it that way. After barking for a while with no reply, he will just wonder around looking for another place to throw out his awesome perception of the the world in his ideal dream  Just hope that we aren't there.
> 
> Go back to idea of the thread, The second most popular SMG after the Uzi for Special Force and Police in Vietnam is the Pakistan-made PK-5. Common sight at Mobile Police Brigade or Counter Terrorist Units in important facilities and foreign embassy.


I notice the riot police and anti terror agents are not protected as it should be. they seriously need more stuffs to protect themselves against flying bullets and explosive grenades. well, as for the guy in question, I think we have no choice but need to deal with both good and bad guys from the coming superpower even they issue insults on daily basis for fun  . on topic, NA Chairwoman Nguyen welcomes Zhang Dejiang, politburo member and chairman of the Standing Committee of the largest but most powerless parliament of the world


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## Viet

not only a new US president is elected, but new members of Congress, both House and Senate. Congrats to 37 year old Democrat Stephanie Murphy Ngoc-Dung as she makes history. the first viet-american women elected to US House, representing Florida (district 7). After the Sept. 11, 2001 attack, she served as a national security adviser in the U.S. defence ministry. for her election campaign, she received endorsements from both President Barack Obama, and Vice President Joe Biden.

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## Carlosa

*Will Trump leave us to China’s mercy, frets Vietnam*
*http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2044420/will-trump-leave-us-chinas-mercy-frets-vietnam*




Donald Trump’s astonishing victory in the United States election will cause a massive rethink among foreign relations strategists in Hanoi, where a win by Hillary Clinton would have guaranteed a continuation of Vietnamese-friendly policies.

Vietnamese have followed these elections closely, underpinned by Washington’s rebalance to the region and acting as a counterweight to China and its regional expansionist policies, which are viewed as a strategic threat by the communists in Hanoi.

“Besides that, the Vietnamese are interested in the elections because there is a large Vietnamese-American community living inside the US,” one long-time observer, who declined to be named, said.

The authorities watched the agonisingly close results after Clinton seemed to start the count well and as favourite, only to see her grip slip, with Trump and the Republicans picking up a large chunk of votes from the disgruntled working classes across the United States.

At this US election there was much at stake for Vietnam, which has finally rebuilt its diplomatic ties with the US, more than 40 years after the Vietnam War ended.

A continuation of the status quo, defined by outgoing President Barak Obama, with Hillary Clinton in charge would be seen as sensible by Hanoi, where the controversial trade deal – the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) – has found enthusiastic support.

Relations were normalised in 2000, when then president Bill Clinton made an historic trip to Hanoi. But trade sanctions, particularly on weapons, remained.




Vietnamese students take a selfie with a paper model of the US Republican presidential candidate during an election watch event at the US embassy in Hanoi. Photo: AFP

The last of those sanctions were lifted just five months ago, which enabled Vietnam’s military access to sophisticated arms, and designed to improve defence cooperation between the two countries, including US access to Vietnam’s deepwater port at Cam Ranh Bay.

A Trump victory would add confusion to this equation. His knowledge of Vietnam and Southeast Asia was found wanting during the campaign and his disparaging remarks about Senator John McCain ruffled feathers here, where he was shot down and held as a PoW.

Meanwhile, Hillary was widely seen as the “continuation candidate” in regards to policies established by Obama, a fellow Democrat.

“Hillary is remembered here for voicing, for the first time, against Chinese ambitions over the South China Sea at a regional security forum in Hanoi in July 2012. I think Vietnamese wish to see Hillary elected new US president,” the government observer said.

“Trump for his part is always seen in the same ranks with Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte by the Vietnamese.”

On the streets of the southern capital of Ho Chi Minh City, public opinion was more divided.

“Trump’s strong stance against China made him popular with many Vietnamese,” said one while a another added, “everyone I know is repulsed by Trump. Some are big for Clinton, others are more tepid, some think both are terrible.”


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## AViet

A typical Western article as usual, trying to portray Vietnam and Vietnamese as an anti-China homogeneous group. Even on this forum, the opinions from Vietnamese and ethnic oversea Vietnamese are already very different about China.

Regarding Donald Trump, majority of Vietnamese do not care about America election, despite the hype from media. Trump or Clinton are no different. And in fact, we have almost no connection to the US in daily life. No investment, no technology, no imports, no anything (from my view as a North Vietnamese).

The US may be important to Vietnamese exporters and oversea Vietnamese (and their relatives in Vietnam, most living in the South), but for average citizens, no.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam disciplines over 40 officers after 4 military aircraft crashes in 2016*
*http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1016930.shtml*
Over 40 officers, including two general officers, have been disciplined following four military aircraft crashes in Vietnam so far in 2016, said Nguyen Minh Hoang, Deputy Political Commissar of Vietnam's Military Zone 7 on Wednesday.

Hoang made the remark at a discussion held during the ongoing second session of Vietnam's 14th National Assembly in capital Hanoi on Wednesday, reported local Tuoi Tre (Youth) online newspaper.

So far in 2016, there have been four military aircraft crashes in Vietnam, including that of Su-MK2 jet fighter in waters off central Nghe An province in mid-June, CASA aircraft in the Beibu Gulf in mid-June, training aircraft L39 in central Phu Yen province and chopper EC 130T2 in southern Ba Ria-Vung Tau province in mid-October.

Vietnamese Ministry of Defense attributed the incidents to *problems in flight safety leadership and instruction*, said Hoang, adding that *flight safety examination remained simple and untimely*.

In addition, the ministry said *rescue equipments are not specialized while the work of pilot management and training is loose*.

The ministry is planning to send officers for overseas training and increase purchase of flight safety control equipments and tools, said Hoang.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam to scrap nuclear plant construction plans*
*http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/1131048/vietnam-to-scrap-nuclear-plant-construction-plans
*
HANOI - The Vietnamese government has decided to scrap plans to build nuclear power plants with Japanese and Russian assistance, a Vietnam Electricity official said on Wednesday.

The decision to withdraw the contracts to build the nuclear power reactors in Ninh Thuan province will be a blow to Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's administration, which sees Japan's export of nuclear power technology as a pillar of his economic growth strategy.

The country's ruling Communist Party instructed government authorities in October to revise the plans due to tight state finances, party and government sources said earlier.

The government plans to submit a resolution to the National Assembly on Thursday requesting the plans be put off, according to state-run media.

The country's policy of promoting nuclear power, however, remains unchanged, according to the Vietnam Electricity official.

The National Assembly approved in 2009 the plans to build two nuclear power reactors each at two plants in Ninh Thuan province, central Vietnam.

Japan was awarded contracts to build the two reactors at the Ninh Thuan 2 Nuclear Power Plant, while Russia was scheduled to build the other two at the Ninh Thuan 1 Nuclear Power Plant.

The first plant was originally slated to become operational in 2020 but was subsequently delayed until 2028, followed by 2029 for the second plant.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam to scrap nuclear plant construction plans*
> *http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/1131048/vietnam-to-scrap-nuclear-plant-construction-plans
> *
> HANOI - The Vietnamese government has decided to scrap plans to build nuclear power plants with Japanese and Russian assistance, a Vietnam Electricity official said on Wednesday.
> 
> The decision to withdraw the contracts to build the nuclear power reactors in Ninh Thuan province will be a blow to Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's administration, which sees Japan's export of nuclear power technology as a pillar of his economic growth strategy.
> 
> The country's ruling Communist Party instructed government authorities in October to revise the plans due to tight state finances, party and government sources said earlier.
> 
> The government plans to submit a resolution to the National Assembly on Thursday requesting the plans be put off, according to state-run media.
> 
> The country's policy of promoting nuclear power, however, remains unchanged, according to the Vietnam Electricity official.
> 
> The National Assembly approved in 2009 the plans to build two nuclear power reactors each at two plants in Ninh Thuan province, central Vietnam.
> 
> Japan was awarded contracts to build the two reactors at the Ninh Thuan 2 Nuclear Power Plant, while Russia was scheduled to build the other two at the Ninh Thuan 1 Nuclear Power Plant.
> 
> The first plant was originally slated to become operational in 2020 but was subsequently delayed until 2028, followed by 2029 for the second plant.


I think this news does not reflect the reality. No Vietnam media post news from the government that wants to cancel nuclear plants completely. I think it will be again a delay because of government's lack of money. A lot of investment have been made, from site clearance to infrastructure building to crew training. it makes economically politically no sense to scrap all. In addition we would upset our partners America, Russia, Japan and Korea.

Besides we should maintain a nuclear option. In case someone runs amok threatening us with nuclear weapon.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think this news does not reflect the reality. No Vietnam media post news from the government that wants to cancel nuclear plants completely. I think it will be again a delay because of government's lack of money. A lot of investment have been made, from site clearance to infrastructure building to crew training. it makes economically politically no sense to scrap all. In addition we would upset our partners America, Russia, Japan and Korea.
> 
> Besides we should maintain a nuclear option. In case someone runs amok threatening us with nuclear weapon.



This news is very real, here is an article from Vietnamese media that also gives more details, yes, its probably a delay, but its a big delay.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/sc...roposes-nuclear-power-plant-cancellation.html

*Government proposes nuclear power plant cancellation*

_The Vietnamese government has decided to cancel the Ninh Thuan Nuclear Power Plant project as the country will not face a power shortage as previously predicted, while the plant would face difficulties competing with other power sources, an official said._






_Chairman of the Electricity of Vietnam, Duong Quang Thanh, said that the government will propose the cancellation of the project to the National Assembly on November 10. _

Talking with the media on the sidelines of a NA meeting on Wednesday, Chairman of the Electricity of Vietnam, Duong Quang Thanh, said that the government will propose the cancellation of the project to the National Assembly on Thursday.

No nuclear power plant has been included the new power plan which runs until 2030 which has just been approved by the prime minister, Thanh confirmed.

The price of nuclear power is now much more expensive than that of other sources such as coal or oil so a nuclear power plant will not be able to compete with other options, Thanh explained.

Thanh also said that the power growth rate in a recent survey is much lower than when done in 2009 when the project was proposed.

"The latest survey predicted that power growth rate will be at 11% in the 2016-2020 period and fall to 7-8% in the 2021-2030 period. So there will be no power shortage in the country in the near future," he confirmed.

Ninh Thuan Nuclear Power Plant project was approved in late 2009 with estimated investment of USD 10 billion, including two plants with a combined capacity of 4,000 megawatts, meeting 3-4 percent of the country’s total electricity demand.

Construction on the first plant was originally planned to start in 2014 with technical assistance from Russia’s state nuclear firm Rosatom. A Japanese consortium was also picked to develop the second plant.

But following the nuclear disaster in Japan’s Fukushima in 2011, the government ordered agencies to thoroughly review safety measures and last year announced that it would delay work on the first plant until 2020.

_Dtinews_


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> This news is very real, here is an article from Vietnamese media that also gives more details:
> 
> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/sc...roposes-nuclear-power-plant-cancellation.html
> 
> 
> _Dtinews_


the Parliament will have the last say. it repeatedly torpedoes government plans. the Parliament once rejected the highspeed rail because it was too expensive, now the government proposes a new plan with cheaper variant with expanded time frame. Also the majority of Parliament recently rejects giving the government huge rooms to make huge debts, only allowed a much lower debt ceiling.

and so on and so on. the government plans to massively increase the number of coal powered plants, now makes U-turn decreasing the number coal plants and increase the number of solar and wind power plants.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam reveals causes of this year’s military aircraft crashes

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/society/166744/social-news-10-11.html*

Vietnam has announced the reasons behind three out of four military aircraft crashes occurring earlier this year, with many individuals responsible sternly sanctioned.

During a meeting of the National Assembly delegate in Ho Chi Minh City on November 9, Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang, an official from the Ministry of National Defense publicized the causes of the military aircraft accidents. 

Regarding the first tragedy, Russian-made fighter jet Su30-MK2 fell down during a training session off the central coastline on the morning of June 14, with one pilot brought to safety and the other found dead a few days later.

The black box was damaged by the crash, Maj. Gen. Hoang stated, adding that what is left of the device has been sent to Russia for a check.

From the subjective perspective, the two pilots did not eject from the plane simultaneously, resulting in the death of one of them, the military official said.

Coast guard aircraft CASA-212 8983 carrying nine crew members got into an accident on June 16 while looking for the missing victim, who was later confirmed dead, of the Su30-MK2, killing all people aboard.

According to Maj. Gen. Hoang, Colonel Le Kiem Toan, captain of the rescue plane, decided to lower altitude after spotting a strange object in the middle of the ocean near the Gulf of Tokin.

The aircraft touched the water surface due to instability caused by bad weather conditions, resulting in the fatal crash, he continued, adding that the black box is being examined by foreign experts.

With regard to the crash of military training plane L-39 in the south-central province of Phu Yen on August 26, the aircraft experienced an engine breakdown shortly after taking off.

The pilot tried to steer the plane out of a residential area and lost his chance of survival after being unable to eject.

The reason behind the EC 130 T2 helicopter tragedy in the southern province of Ba Ria-Vung Tau on October 18, which killed an instructor and two trainees, remains unclear, Hoang said.

As the chopper was a commercial aircraft, the military has been working with the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam to determine the cause, the official elaborated.

The accidents primarily stemmed from the incompetent management of flight safety, Maj. Gen. Hoang asserted, adding that over 40 officers, of whom two were among the general ranks, from several military units and schools had been penalized.

Another reason is the lack of synchronization in rescue missions and linked to a limited number of specialized rescue aircraft.

The management and training of pilots in the country are still under par, the military official continued.

Following the penalization, a thorough inspection will be carried out of the quality of aircraft and of military units and academies.

For a long-term solution, pilots will be trained overseas and certain measures will be developed to repair and upgrade airplanes in the country, the major general said.

The Ministry of National Defense will also ask the State and Party to purchase new and modern military aircraft in the near future.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/vietnam-defence-forum.211882/page-592#ixzz4PbGQ8efa


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> In case someone runs amok threatening us with nuclear weapon.


calm down. No one will threaten Vietnam with nuclear weapons:
- For countries with nuclear weapons, they usually also have a much stronger conventional military forces than Vietnam. So why using nuclear weapons to against Vietnam?

- For countries with No nuclear weapons, how could they use nuclear weapons to against Vietnam?


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## Viet

AViet said:


> A typical Western article as usual, trying to portray Vietnam and Vietnamese as an anti-China homogeneous group. Even on this forum, the opinions from Vietnamese and ethnic oversea Vietnamese are already very different about China.
> 
> Regarding Donald Trump, majority of Vietnamese do not care about America election, despite the hype from media. Trump or Clinton are no different. And in fact, we have almost no connection to the US in daily life. No investment, no technology, no imports, no anything (from my view as a North Vietnamese).
> 
> The US may be important to Vietnamese exporters and oversea Vietnamese (and their relatives in Vietnam, most living in the South), but for average citizens, no.


and vietnamese importers and exporters have no contact to common folks? no to northerner like you?

let see: last year 2015, the bilateral trades US-Vietnam stood at about $45b, this year 2016 will be about $53b. an increase of 16%. these goods in billion of dollars are never seen in Hanoi? should TPP become reality (well, right now it is not realistic), our trades with America would surpass those of China in the near future.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> calm down. No one will threaten Vietnam with nuclear weapons:
> - For countries with nuclear weapons, they usually also have a much stronger conventional military forces than Vietnam. So why using nuclear weapons to against Vietnam?
> 
> - For countries with No nuclear weapons, how could they use nuclear weapons to against Vietnam?


at the end phase of the war, both France and America considered nuclear weapons to secure the victory. I think it is not a secret, both have much more powerful conventional armed forces. I don´t know whether China had ever considered nuclear weapon in the war against Vietnam.


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## AViet

Viet said:


> and vietnamese importers and exporters have no contact to common folks? no to northerner like you?
> 
> let see: last year 2015, the bilateral trades US-Vietnam stood at about $45b, this year 2016 will be about $53b. an increase of 16%. these goods in billion of dollars are never seen in Hanoi? should TPP become reality (well, right now it is not realistic), our trades with America would surpass those of China in the near future.
> 
> View attachment 350830
> 
> 
> View attachment 350831



Viet, I like your patriotic attitude. However, possibly you have little connection with the real situation in Vietnam.Therefore, sometimes I feel you conclude a problem too soon based on limited and bias information from the Internet.

This forum is just for fun and for people to say what they cannot say in the real life. Do not be too emotional and take everything on this forum seriously. Even the information with links can be fake, let alone what people say here.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> at the end phase of the war, both France and America considered nuclear weapons to secure the victory. I think it is not a secret, both have much more powerful conventional armed forces. I don´t know whether China had ever considered nuclear weapon in the war against Vietnam.


China to use nuclear weapons in the war against Vietnam? why? we were not that crazy and desperate. we are not that stupid, because nuclear weapons could not really help us to win the war, but drag us to a bigger bigger trouble.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Viet, I like your patriotic attitude. However, possibly you have little connection with the real situation in Vietnam.Therefore, sometimes I feel you conclude a problem too soon based on limited and bias information from the Internet.
> 
> This forum is just for fun and for people to say what they cannot say in the real life. Do not be too emotional and take everything on this forum seriously. Even the information with links can be fake, let alone what people say here.


bro I would appreciate if you tell me something I don't know yet. If you think this VN military thread is useless, then you can stay away. if you think the whole forum is waste of time, you have the option to leave. nobody is forcing anything on you.

yes, I admit make conclusion on my own. I think that is legal, isn´t it? you never make conclusion? if yes, you make it based on full access and non bias information from the Internet, I assume. anyway, have fun and enjoy your time here bro.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think this news does not reflect the reality. No Vietnam media post news from the government that wants to cancel nuclear plants completely. I think it will be again a delay because of government's lack of money. A lot of investment have been made, from site clearance to infrastructure building to crew training. it makes economically politically no sense to scrap all. In addition we would upset our partners America, Russia, Japan and Korea.
> 
> Besides we should maintain a nuclear option. In case someone runs amok threatening us with nuclear weapon.



Yes, it is possible. What they are doing with coal based power plants is really crazy and its going to create an environmental disaster.

Here is another article:

*Roundup: Vietnam Discussing Halt Of 1st Nuclear Powerplant Project*
*http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/wn/newsworld.php?id=1300913*
HANOI, Nov 10 (Bernama) -- In a suddenly-adjusted agenda, Vietnamese lawmakers on Thursday discussed a proposal on reviewing to halt the project of Vietnam's first nuclear power plant in southern coastal Ninh Thuan province, China's Xinhua news agency reports.

The proposal sparked lively debates across the country among officials, experts as well as netizens.

Speaking on local Tuoi Tre (Youth) online newspaper on Thursday, Duong Quang Thanh, chairman of the Member Council of Vietnam's power monopoly EVN, cited the national electricity planning recently approved by Vietnamese government as saying that from now till 2030, there will be no nuclear power plant.

Instead, many power sources will be developed to meet up with power demand of Vietnam, said Thanh.

According to new calculation, Vietnam's annual electricity demand growth will stand at around 11 per cent during 2016-2020 period and at 7 to 8 per cent during 2021 to 2030 period; much lower than that of 17 to 20 per cent as calculated in 2009, when the policy of Ninh Thuan nuclear power plant project was adopted, said Thanh.

At present, the country's electricity demand growth remains low, while the total supply by domestic and import sources are enough to ensure socio-economic development.

As a result, the costly investment into nuclear power will make it unable to compete with other energy sources in economic term, Thanh explained.

Meanwhile, in an interview with local VNExpress online newspaper on Thursday, Le Hong Tinh, vice chairman of Vietnam's National Assembly (NA) Committee on Science-Technology and Environment said reviewing to halt the project at the moment is "timely and necessary."

According to Tinh, the nuclear power project is no longer feasible.

Following an earlier plan, the electricity price would be around US$4.9cents each kWh while it has risen to over US$8cents each kWh now, said Tinh.

"In addition, in the context that Vietnam's public debts are approaching the ceiling, if we continue to invest into a big project, there is a possibility that the public debts will keep increasing. It's better to stop now rather than stop after implementation," Tinh told VNexpress.

Echoing Tinh, Nguyen Minh Due, standing member of the Executive Committee for the Vietnam Energy Association and vice president of Energy Science Council, said "Nuclear power plant not only requires big investment but also is quite sensitive to the environment. The project has been in pre-feasibility stage with not much investment, so halting it at the moment is reasonable."

However, the insider said stopping the project may affect future electricity supply.He urged the government to develop other power plants that can make up the loss, as well as boost the development of renewable energy such as wind power to create more supply sources.

In November 2009, some 77.48 per cent of then Vietnamese legislators agreed on policy of investing Ninh Thuan nuclear power project. The project included two plants with capacity of around 2,000 megawatt each.

After group and hall discussions, Vietnamese NA is expected to adopt a resolution on stop the project on Nov. 22.

-- BERNAMA

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, it is possible. What they are doing with coal based power plants is really crazy and its going to create an environmental disaster.
> 
> Here is another article:
> 
> *Roundup: Vietnam Discussing Halt Of 1st Nuclear Powerplant Project*
> *http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/wn/newsworld.php?id=1300913*
> HANOI, Nov 10 (Bernama) -- In a suddenly-adjusted agenda, Vietnamese lawmakers on Thursday discussed a proposal on reviewing to halt the project of Vietnam's first nuclear power plant in southern coastal Ninh Thuan province, China's Xinhua news agency reports.
> 
> The proposal sparked lively debates across the country among officials, experts as well as netizens.
> 
> Speaking on local Tuoi Tre (Youth) online newspaper on Thursday, Duong Quang Thanh, chairman of the Member Council of Vietnam's power monopoly EVN, cited the national electricity planning recently approved by Vietnamese government as saying that from now till 2030, there will be no nuclear power plant.
> 
> Instead, many power sources will be developed to meet up with power demand of Vietnam, said Thanh.
> 
> According to new calculation, Vietnam's annual electricity demand growth will stand at around 11 per cent during 2016-2020 period and at 7 to 8 per cent during 2021 to 2030 period; much lower than that of 17 to 20 per cent as calculated in 2009, when the policy of Ninh Thuan nuclear power plant project was adopted, said Thanh.
> 
> At present, the country's electricity demand growth remains low, while the total supply by domestic and import sources are enough to ensure socio-economic development.
> 
> As a result, the costly investment into nuclear power will make it unable to compete with other energy sources in economic term, Thanh explained.
> 
> Meanwhile, in an interview with local VNExpress online newspaper on Thursday, Le Hong Tinh, vice chairman of Vietnam's National Assembly (NA) Committee on Science-Technology and Environment said reviewing to halt the project at the moment is "timely and necessary."
> 
> According to Tinh, the nuclear power project is no longer feasible.
> 
> Following an earlier plan, the electricity price would be around US$4.9cents each kWh while it has risen to over US$8cents each kWh now, said Tinh.
> 
> "In addition, in the context that Vietnam's public debts are approaching the ceiling, if we continue to invest into a big project, there is a possibility that the public debts will keep increasing. It's better to stop now rather than stop after implementation," Tinh told VNexpress.
> 
> Echoing Tinh, Nguyen Minh Due, standing member of the Executive Committee for the Vietnam Energy Association and vice president of Energy Science Council, said "Nuclear power plant not only requires big investment but also is quite sensitive to the environment. The project has been in pre-feasibility stage with not much investment, so halting it at the moment is reasonable."
> 
> However, the insider said stopping the project may affect future electricity supply.He urged the government to develop other power plants that can make up the loss, as well as boost the development of renewable energy such as wind power to create more supply sources.
> 
> In November 2009, some 77.48 per cent of then Vietnamese legislators agreed on policy of investing Ninh Thuan nuclear power project. The project included two plants with capacity of around 2,000 megawatt each.
> 
> After group and hall discussions, Vietnamese NA is expected to adopt a resolution on stop the project on Nov. 22.
> 
> -- BERNAMA


Yes that is true. If we go down the path of construction of massive coal fired power plants all over the country, the sky will become more dark than blue. Vietnam must increase the percentage of renewable energy as wind and solar. I wonder much of government plans of importing zig millions of coals annually. That would cost us billions of dollars from our tinny forex reserves. If one considers, the world has 900 billions tons of coal reserves but we alone have 50 billions tons reserves in the north. And we haven't explored coal in the central and southern Vietnam yet. We have enough coal.

Back to nuclear power. I hope the parliament rejects the proposed cancellation and gives the plan a chance later to be realized.


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## AViet

I know about this about one month ago. Probably the cancellation is due to political reason, not technical.


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## Aqsuperman

Well whatever the final decision is, many students and workers that already finished the courses on various nuclear related subjects will be temporary unemployed. In the worst case, they will move to another country seeking proper jobs and there we lost another class of well educated people, nothing new i guess. 

Short range air defense units are the primary cover force for mobile ground troops. So far we have batteries of 23mm, 37mm, 57mm and a mix of SPAA for this job.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Yes that is true. If we go down the path of construction of massive coal fired power plants all over the country, the sky will become more dark than blue. Vietnam must increase the percentage of renewable energy as wind and solar. I wonder much of government plans of importing zig millions of coals annually. That would cost us billions of dollars from our tinny forex reserves. If one considers, the world has 900 billions tons of coal reserves but we alone have 50 billions tons reserves in the north. And we haven't explored coal in the central and southern Vietnam yet. We have enough coal.
> 
> Back to nuclear power. I hope the parliament rejects the proposed cancellation and gives the plan a chance later to be realized.



The problem is that the government and most people in Vietnam don't have much of a clue about environmental protection, people trow trash in the streets and beaches like if they are a dumping ground. As the government said itself during the fish die offs in the central coast, the environmental regulations and impact assessments of industrial projects were just a formality, basically, they didn't care about it, companies are free to dump and pollute as much as they want. There are lots of horror stories.

The government follows the same failed policies that China did decades ago and they learned nothing about the consequences of them. As long as that attitude doesn't change, they are going to continue with coal and disregard renewable energy. The only renewable energy projects that come is because of foreign investors interest and efforts, they don't get any help or promotion from the government as its typical in most other countries. At least China is now promoting renewable energy big time.

Other than for military purposes, nuclear power its a very risky proposition and there is no solution yet about what to do with the nuclear waste generated by the reactors. Lets not forget Fukushima. Who wants to live near a nuclear plant?

There is an small nuclear reactor for research purposes in Dalat and a new, much bigger one its going to get built. That might be enough for military purposes and to occupy many of the nuclear engineers that are currently getting trained.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam ditches nuclear power plans*
*http://www.dw.com/en/vietnam-ditches-nuclear-power-plans/a-36338419
*
Vietnam has decided to scrap plans to build two nuclear power plants, which would have been the first in southeast Asia. Hydropower and coal are set to remain dominant in the fast-industrializing country.






Vietnam's ruling communist party decided Thursday that two planned plants in the southern region of Ninh Thuan will not feature in the country's future energy mix, state-controlled media reported.

MP Duong Quang Thanh, chairman of the Electricity Committee in the National Assembly, confirmed that no budget for the plants - which were approved in 2008 with a combined capacity of 4,000 megawatts (MW) - had been included in a long-term energy plan approved by Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, the DTI news website reported.

Le Hong Tinh, vice chairman of the National Assembly's Science, Technology and Environment Committee, said a key reason for the government's decision was that the price for the plants had doubled to $18 billion (about 16.5 billion euros).




The National Assembly is expected to ratify the decision later this month, state-controlled Tuoi Tre newspaper reported.

Ambitious plans

In June 2010, Vietnam announced plans to build 14 nuclear reactors at eight sites across five provinces by 2030. They were expected to produce 15 gigawatts (GW) of power, or about 11 percent of the nation's energy mix totaling 112 GW. Four more units were added to the first two sites in Ninh Thuan, then six more at six sites.

Westinghouse (Japan/US), GE (US), EDF (France), KEPCO (South Korea) and CGNPC (China) all also expressed interest in constructing future nuclear power projects, as part of an ambitious strategy to increase the nuclear share to 20-25 percent by 2050.

Power production is currently dominated by hydropower with a share of 41 percent in electricity generation, followed by natural gas with 31 percent and coal with 26 percent.

Russian and Japanese firms out in the cold

Construction of the first plant - Ninh Thuan 1 - had been set to start in 2014 with know-how from Russia's state-run nuclear firm Rosatom, but the government pushed construction back to 2020 due to post-Fukashima safety concerns.

The 4 X 1,000 Megawatt (MW) plant was to have been built by Atomstroyexport, a subsidiary of Rosatom.

Russia's Ministry of Finance agreed to finance at least 85 percent of the plant and in November 2011 an agreement for an $8 billion loan was signed with the Russian government's state export credit bureau.

A contract to build the second plant was given to companies from Japan. In October 2010, an intergovernmental agreement with Japan was signed for construction of a second nuclear power plant - Ninh Thuan 2 - at Vinh Hai also in Ninh Thuan Province, with its two reactors to come on line in 2024-25. The Japanese consortium - International Nuclear Energy Development of Japan (JINED) would have constructed the 4 X 1,000 MW site.

The Japanese Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI), agreed to finance up to 85 percent of the total cost.

When the plants were approved in 2009 the government projected power demand growth of 17-20 percent per year, but that has had to be revised to 11 percent for 2016-2020 and 7-8 percent in 2021-2030.

In 2015, Vietnam's Central Statistics Office estimated that electricity demand would continue to grow at an annual rate of 10-12 percent, rising from 169.8 terawatthours (TWh) in 2015 to 615.2 TWh by 2030. In its 2013 Country Nuclear Power Profile, submitted to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Vietnam forecast a 2015 generation capacity of a about 40 gigawatts, increasing to nearly 140 GW to meet projected demand in 2030.

Duong Quang Thanh, CEO of state-run Electricity of Vietnam Group - which was to cover the remaining costs of the plants - said they were "not economically viable because of other cheaper sources of power." It also cited "slowing demand for electricity and the declining price of other sources of energy" as reasons behind the decision.

*"Nuclear power, therefore, cannot compete economically with other sources of energy,"* Thanh said.


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## GS Zhou

Carlosa said:


> The problem is that the government and most people in Vietnam don't have much of a clue about environmental protection, people trow trash in the streets and beaches like if they are a dumping ground. As the government said itself during the fish die offs in the central coast, the environmental regulations and impact assessments of industrial projects were just a formality, basically, they didn't care about it, companies are free to dump and pollute as much as they want. There are lots of horror stories.
> 
> The government follows the same failed policies that China did decades ago and they learned nothing about the consequences of them. As long as that attitude doesn't change, they are going to continue with coal and disregard renewable energy. The only renewable energy projects that come is because of foreign investors interest and efforts, they don't get any help or promotion from the government as its typical in most other countries. At least China is now promoting renewable energy big time.
> 
> Other than for military purposes, nuclear power its a very risky proposition and there is no solution yet about what to do with the nuclear waste generated by the reactors. Lets not forget Fukushima. Who wants to live near a nuclear plant?
> 
> There is an small nuclear reactor for research purposes in Dalat and a new, much bigger one its going to get built. That might be enough for military purposes and to occupy many of the nuclear engineers that are currently getting trained.


there is NO perfect solution in electricity supply. Environmental protection, CAPEX requirement, electricity supply stability, these key indicators are usually contradictory to each other among different power plant types. If you complain coal power plant is too dirty, then you have to embrace nuclear power plant. There is no pain-free option.


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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> there is NO perfect solution in electricity supply. Environmental protection, CAPEX requirement, electricity supply stability, these key indicators are usually contradictory to each other among different power plant types. If you complain coal power plant is too dirty, then you have to embrace nuclear power plant. There is no pain-free option.



No perfect solution at the moment, but some solutions are a lot more perfect than others. Its all about having the foresight to choose and promote the most environmental friendly approach to power generation. 

When the world is getting rid of coal power, it makes no sense for Vietnam to go into coal big time as it is doing now and particularly after the recent Paris agreement. At the moment Vietnam has virtually no green power generation. Recent and upcoming advances in green power technology provide a viable alternative to coal and nuclear. Just look at what Ellon Musk just unveiled for home power generation. The new developments in electrical storage technology (for home, industrial and power plant use) is what was needed to make renewable energy competitive. Solar is already cheaper than coal. Vietnam is a country that is blessed with resources for solar and wind power. What is needed is leadership willing to make the right decisions.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam To Turn Its Back On Massive Pacific Rim Trade Pact After Trump Victory*
*http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphjennings/2016/11/10/with-trump-victory-vietnam-turns-its-back-on-massive-pacific-rim-trade-pact/#353b874c640e*

The Trans Pacific Partnership, a U.S.-led trade pact encompassing 40% of the world economy, isn’t “confirmed dead,” to borrow language from an equity research firm in Hanoi. But unless it passes the U.S. Congress before Donald Trump takes office in January, the tariff-cutting agreement is just taking up space in some ICU before undertakers arrive. Vietnam knows the trade deal is unlikely to take shape despite signatures by 12 member nations in February. Trump doesn’t like it and his Republican Party controls Congress.

So Vietnamese leaders have started looking instead toward a series of two-way free-trade deals to sustain their fast-growing $193.6 billion economy that depends heavily on exports.





Workers on a production line at the Garment 10 Company in the outskirts of Hanoi. (HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/Getty Images)

“The sad news for Vietnam is that trade liberalization is unlikely to be high on the agenda, whatever the new [U.S.] president’s cabinet and policy implementation will be,” French investment bank Natixis said in a statement Thursday. “And thus, Vietnam will have to mourn the death of the highly-anticipated Trans Pacific Partnership.”

The deal known usually as TPP would have raised the Vietnamese GDP by 11%, estimates Louie Nguyen, editor and founder of the news website VietnamAdvisors. Multinationals would move more factories into Vietnam if the pact took effect, he adds. And increasingly wealthy and adventurous consumers in Vietnam may also hold onto more of their money as 89% of the public supports TPP and its “collapse of TPP could take the wind out of the sail of Vietnamese consumers,” Nguyen says. A lot of the spending power comes from creation of jobs that follow expansion of factories, which export stuff from coffee to smartphones.

Yet officials in Hanoi probably won’t hang out too long at the funeral.

Even when polls tipped Trump to lose the U.S. election, Vietnam was hedging bets about the TPP in case the U.S. Congress missed its February 2018 deadline to ratify the deal under whatever president. The TPP effectively requires U.S. ratification to reach 85% of the trade bloc’s combined GDP, a rule for final implementation. A steering committee headed by the Vietnamese deputy prime minister decided in August instead of pushing for ratification in late 2016 to keep monitoring what other countries do with the deal. Vietnam’s next chance to ratify it would be early next year.

The Southeast Asian country has meanwhile signed and implemented a raft of two-way free trade agreements that could offset losses to exports from lack of a TPP. Among the confirmed trading partners are Australia, Chile, China, India, Japan, New Zealand, South Korea and the European Union. Vietnam’s trade negotiators are likely to keep channeling their efforts into bilateral deals rather than the Pacific Rim bloc. And those ties “are enough for an economy with nominal GDP of roughly $200 billion to capture growth opportunities in the years to come,” Hanoi-based equity market research firm SSI Research said in a note Thursday.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> China to use nuclear weapons in the war against Vietnam? why? we were not that crazy and desperate. we are not that stupid, because nuclear weapons could not really help us to win the war, but drag us to a bigger bigger trouble.


I have my doubt. but anyway I hope you will always remain calm and reasonable under all circumstances despite your bottomless hatred on Vietnam from time to time.


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## Silent Knight

Basically, the 927th FR has finished transferring their Su-30MK2V fleet to the home base.

You heard it first from ComCom.
https://www.facebook.com/WarComissa...3591.213961285393506/1079252315531061/?type=3


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I have my doubt. but anyway I hope you will always remain calm and reasonable under all circumstances despite your bottomless hatred on Vietnam from time to time.


bottomless hatred? Why? What's the point? Yes, there are conflicts between the two countries, like the South China Sea, or trade, so we may not like each other. But not like each other does not mean hate, needless to say bottomless hate. 

Using nuke to against VN is not an option to us, under any circumstances. Nuke can not bring us victory and peace, but drag us to endless troubles. That's very clear.



Carlosa said:


> No perfect solution at the moment, but some solutions are a lot more perfect than others. Its all about having the foresight to choose and promote the most environmental friendly approach to power generation.
> 
> When the world is getting rid of coal power, it makes no sense for Vietnam to go into coal big time as it is doing now and particularly after the recent Paris agreement. At the moment Vietnam has virtually no green power generation. Recent and upcoming advances in green power technology provide a viable alternative to coal and nuclear. Just look at what Ellon Musk just unveiled for home power generation. The new developments in electrical storage technology (for home, industrial and power plant use) is what was needed to make renewable energy competitive. Solar is already cheaper than coal. Vietnam is a country that is blessed with resources for solar and wind power. What is needed is leadership willing to make the right decisions.



The top three requirements of a modern power network is: stability, stability, and stability. But unfortunately, this is not what could be offered by solar. So solar could be a good addition, e.g. to own a 5~10% share of your overall power supply capacity. But to make solar as the mainstream power resource means the crash of your power network. Even god can not save it.

Cost advantage of solar? are you sure? China's experience is solar power cost per kwh is 2.5x of coal power cost. But remember, China is the No.1 country in terms of solar power adoption, also the No.1 country of solar panel production, so the 2.5x price premium already reflected the savings from scale effect and high localization rate. That means, to Vietnam, the cost of solar power could only be higher than that to China.

BTW, a modern coal power plant or nuclear plant could be built in very compact size. So for a given capacity power plant, the land consumption of coal/nuclear plant is far smaller than what required by solar or wind power. You need to leave sufficient space between wind towers or solar panels, don't you? But does Vietnam has that much useless land (e.g. desert)??

Electric storage systems from Tesla. That sounds very cool, right? But do you know the so-called electric storage system is just another name of battery to make the audience feel more comfortable? You think the production and recycle of battery is pollution-free?

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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> bottomless hatred? Why? What's the point? Yes, there are conflicts between the two countries, like the South China Sea, or trade, so we may not like each other. But not like each other does not mean hate, needless to say bottomless hate.
> 
> Using nuke to against VN is not an option to us, under any circumstances. Nuke can not bring us victory and peace, but drag us to endless troubles. That's very clear.



Relax you two. There are new circumstances at play now and there is an opening for better relations between Vietnam and China and it appears like the SCS situation will have less tension and even that nobody will expect that the countries involved will lessen their claims, we might see a return to the former status quo where nobody creates actions that change facts on the ground. Supposedly, Duterte was promised that there would be no reclamation on Scarborough Shoal and now PH coast guards are patrolling the area unmolested.

I know most Viet members wanted a Clinton victory and of course we don't know yet what Trump will do, but Clinton represented the war party in USA and only conflict can come when these people are in power. She represents the neocons, the Pentagon crazies that want conflict with Russia and just about the darkest forces in USA. She represents the American empire and with people like that, that pushes China into aggression mode and we already saw the result of that in SCS, so maybe now there is an opportunity to scale tensions down and avoid conflict. We'll see.

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> I know most Viet members wanted a Clinton victory and of course we don't know yet what Trump will do, but Clinton represented the war party in USA and only conflict can come when these people are in power. She represents the neocons, the Pentagon crazies that want conflict with Russia and just about the darkest forces in USA. She represents the American empire and with people like that, that pushes China into aggression mode and we already saw the result of that in SCS, so maybe now there is an opportunity to scale tensions down and avoid conflict. We'll see.


Actually I rooted for Trump


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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> bottomless hatred? Why? What's the point? Yes, there are conflicts between the two countries, like the South China Sea, or trade, so we may not like each other. But not like each other does not mean hate, needless to say bottomless hate.
> 
> Using nuke to against VN is not an option to us, under any circumstances. Nuke can not bring us victory and peace, but drag us to endless troubles. That's very clear.
> 
> 
> 
> The top three requirements of a modern power network is: stability, stability, and stability. But unfortunately, this is not what could be offered by solar. So solar could be a good addition, e.g. to own a 5~10% share of your overall power supply capacity. But to make solar as the mainstream power resource means the crash of your power network. Even god can not save it.
> 
> Cost advantage of solar? are you sure? China's experience is solar power cost per kwh is 2.5x of coal power cost. But remember, China is the No.1 country in terms of solar power adoption, also the No.1 country of solar panel production, so the 2.5x price premium already reflected the savings from scale effect and high localization rate. That means, to Vietnam, the cost of solar power could only be higher than that to China.
> 
> BTW, a modern coal power plant or nuclear plant could be built in very compact size. So for a given capacity power plant, the land consumption of coal/nuclear plant is far smaller than what required by solar or wind power. You need to leave sufficient space between wind towers or solar panels, don't you? But does Vietnam has that much useless land (e.g. desert)??
> 
> Electric storage systems from Tesla. That sounds very cool, right? But do you know the so-called electric storage system is just another name of battery to make the audience feel more comfortable? You think the production and recycle of battery is pollution-free?



Electrical storage is not just batteries, there are new technologies that are starting to get used to store electricity in power plants that are unrelated to batteries. That whole issue of electrical storage was the one main reason why green energy could not go mainstream in the past (can produce during the day or when there is wind, but what about at night or when there is no wind?). With electrical storage you'll have your stability.

The latest generations of solar cells are cheaper and more efficient and are competitive with coal. The next few years will have many breakthroughs. This is a technology that is about to explode.

There is plenty of land and territorial sea for lots of green power plants in Vietnam, that would not be an issue.
Coal power plants also take quite a bit of space. They need large areas to store the coal, large areas to disposed of the waste coal, they often need ports to be built just to supply coal to the plant, etc, etc.



Silent Knight said:


> Actually I rooted for Trump



Me too. Clinton is extremely corrupted and she was a sure ticket to a war with Russia.


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## GS Zhou

Carlosa said:


> Electrical storage is not just batteries, there are new technologies that are starting to get used to store electricity in power plants that are unrelated to batteries. That whole issue of electrical storage was the one main reason why green energy could not go mainstream in the past (can produce during the day or when there is wind, but what about at night or when there is no wind?). With electrical storage you'll have your stability.
> 
> The latest generations of solar cells are cheaper and more efficient and are competitive with coal. The next few years will have many breakthroughs. This is a technology that is about to explode.
> 
> There is plenty of land and territorial sea for lots of green power plants in Vietnam, that would not be an issue.
> Coal power plants also take quite a bit of space. They need large areas to store the coal, large areas to disposed of the waste coal, they often need ports to be built just to supply coal to the plant, etc, etc.


Unfortunately, battery is still the most reliable / cost-effective technology route of electricity storage in today. That's why the Tesla Powerwall is nothing special but batteries.

Future is a very charming word, because we believe all dreams could be realized in the future. But unless you believe Vietnam can own the most developed energy storage technology in the near future, otherwise you'd better pray for a more realistic route for the power sector of Vietnam.


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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> Unfortunately, battery is still the most reliable / cost-effective technology route of electricity storage in today. That's why the Tesla Powerwall is nothing special but batteries.
> 
> Future is a very charming word, because we believe all dreams could be realized in the future. But unless you believe Vietnam can own the most developed energy storage technology in the near future, otherwise you'd better pray for a more realistic route for the power sector of Vietnam.



We'll see what happens. In the end is all about money and decision making, including incentives for green power.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> bottomless hatred? Why? What's the point? Yes, there are conflicts between the two countries, like the South China Sea, or trade, so we may not like each other. But not like each other does not mean hate, needless to say bottomless hate.
> 
> Using nuke to against VN is not an option to us, under any circumstances. Nuke can not bring us victory and peace, but drag us to endless troubles. That's very clear.


I have reasons for my doubt judging based upon your history of hostilities on Vietnam.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I have reasons for my doubt judging based upon your history of hostilities on Vietnam.


never mind, it is your right.

Enjoy the weekend.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> never mind, it is your right.
> 
> Enjoy the weekend.


thanks, you too 



Silent Knight said:


> Actually I rooted for Trump


really?

whatever his policy may be, by the way he once tried everything to avoid as soldier being sent to Vietnam, one thing is certain, he loves women. posting here some pics. some viet girl beauties paid visits to his office in New York, when he had not the idea to become the president of the most power country the world has ever seen 

_Doan Thi Kim Hong _










_Vo Hoang Yen _





_Xuan Thao _

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The problem is that the government and most people in Vietnam don't have much of a clue about environmental protection, people trow trash in the streets and beaches like if they are a dumping ground. As the government said itself during the fish die offs in the central coast, the environmental regulations and impact assessments of industrial projects were just a formality, basically, they didn't care about it, companies are free to dump and pollute as much as they want. There are lots of horror stories.
> 
> The government follows the same failed policies that China did decades ago and they learned nothing about the consequences of them. As long as that attitude doesn't change, they are going to continue with coal and disregard renewable energy. The only renewable energy projects that come is because of foreign investors interest and efforts, they don't get any help or promotion from the government as its typical in most other countries. At least China is now promoting renewable energy big time.
> 
> Other than for military purposes, nuclear power its a very risky proposition and there is no solution yet about what to do with the nuclear waste generated by the reactors. Lets not forget Fukushima. Who wants to live near a nuclear plant?
> 
> There is an small nuclear reactor for research purposes in Dalat and a new, much bigger one its going to get built. That might be enough for military purposes and to occupy many of the nuclear engineers that are currently getting trained.


Ah you know I myself was very surprised on how our people throw trash everywhere, not mentioning how foreigners react to such bad behavior with disgust. Naja it is a long way to go.

green energy is like vegetable for a guy who loves steaks. He despises it. Until he becomes fat and heart attack, then he rethinks it maybe worth eating more vegetable less meat

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ah you know I myself was very surprised on how our people throw trash everywhere, not mentioning how foreigners react to such bad behavior with disgust. Naja it is a long way to go.
> 
> green energy is like vegetable for a guy who loves steaks. He despises it. Until he becomes fat and heart attack, then he rethinks it maybe worth eating more vegetable less meat



Ha ha very funny but very true.


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## Viet

For the first time ever in the 2,500 year long Vietnam/China relationship, a Chinese coast guard vessel pays a peaceful visit to port in the North of Vietnam. Welcome.

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## Viet

Not a revolution but small improvements for the mass of T-54 main battle tanks, still forming the backbone of Vietnam ground army

target finder for 100 mm main cannon





tank automatic wired control. No more driver taking the small seat, using muscle power necessary









If I understand correctly, that is a new computer aided system of maps for military regions.


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## Viet

*Trump Victory Alarms Vietnam*





Vietnam Right Now, News Analysis, Posted: Nov 11, 2016


The shock waves from Donald Trump’s victory are only just beginning to reverberate around the world. For Vietnam, the surprise win of the maverick property developer and reality tv star is deeply unsettling and threatens severe strategic consequences.

Mr Trump’s foreign policy objectives remained vague to the point of incoherence during the long election campaign, but his instincts are unmistakably protectionist and isolationist.

Vietnam, which saw much advantage in the “pivot to Asia”, announced by Hillary Clinton in 2011, must now face the likelihood that the initiative is dead in the water.

Hanoi sought and achieved closer political, military and economic ties with a US administration eager to strengthen its presence in the region.

Mr Trump, with his “America First” rhetoric, seems much less interested in helping friends and allies hold the line against China’s expansionism.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership, already wilting on the vine, is likely to be an early victim of the Trump administration.

Vietnam was the country with most to gain from the TPP, gaining tariff free access to the world’s largest market, and tying Hanoi into a community of American friends and partners.

Ratification of the pact came to be seen as a key test of America’s commitment to Asia

Its demise will be celebrated by China as a strategic victory, and signal to Beijing’s neighbours that the US no longer has the will or consistency to protect them in the long term.

Dangerously destabilising

Mr Trump stated on the campaign trail that Asian countries would have to take responsibility for their own defence.

“If somebody attacks Japan, we have to immediately go and start World War III, OK? If we get attacked, Japan doesn’t have to help us. Somehow, that doesn’t sound so fair,” he said at a rally late last year.

He also indicated that South Korea would have to pay far more for its own defence.

The then candidate even suggested that Japan might have to go nuclear if that was necessary to guarantee its defence against China and North Korea.

Such an approach, if implemented, would be dangerously destabilising for the entire Asia Pacific region and beyond.

Mr Trump was much given to spontaneous temporising on the campaign trail, and no-one knows what a Trump foreign policy will look like in practice.

It is possible, some analysts say, that he will build up the US military and aim to show strength in the face of China’s economic and military growth. It is not a scenario that countries such as Vietnam can rely on.

Liberal use of tariffs

The candidate was unpredictable, sensationalist and contradictory on the campaign trail.

But he was extremely consistent, to the point of monomania, about one thing: he wanted to become president to look after the interests of ordinary Americans.

He said tariffs would be used liberally to give the US the advantage back after a series of dubious trade deals.

Export-led developing economies such as Vietnam can expect little consideration from such a leader.

Pro-democracy activists and human rights campaigners in Vietnam also have reason for alarm at the US election result.

Mr Trump has spoken admiringly of authoritarian rulers, most notably Vladimir Putin.

He is unlikely to take much interest in the struggle of civil society activists for a more open society in Vietnam – a struggle of little interest to the hard pressed blue collar workers in rust belt states that propelled him to power.


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## Aqsuperman

Training of VPA self propelled artillery of the mechanized division. Composed of 122mm and 152mm tracked vehicle









.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *Trump Victory Alarms Vietnam*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam Right Now, News Analysis, Posted: Nov 11, 2016
> 
> 
> The shock waves from Donald Trump’s victory are only just beginning to reverberate around the world. For Vietnam, the surprise win of the maverick property developer and reality tv star is deeply unsettling and threatens severe strategic consequences.
> 
> Mr Trump’s foreign policy objectives remained vague to the point of incoherence during the long election campaign, but his instincts are unmistakably protectionist and isolationist.
> 
> Vietnam, which saw much advantage in the “pivot to Asia”, announced by Hillary Clinton in 2011, must now face the likelihood that the initiative is dead in the water.
> 
> Hanoi sought and achieved closer political, military and economic ties with a US administration eager to strengthen its presence in the region.
> 
> Mr Trump, with his “America First” rhetoric, seems much less interested in helping friends and allies hold the line against China’s expansionism.
> 
> The Trans-Pacific Partnership, already wilting on the vine, is likely to be an early victim of the Trump administration.
> 
> Vietnam was the country with most to gain from the TPP, gaining tariff free access to the world’s largest market, and tying Hanoi into a community of American friends and partners.
> 
> Ratification of the pact came to be seen as a key test of America’s commitment to Asia
> 
> Its demise will be celebrated by China as a strategic victory, and signal to Beijing’s neighbours that the US no longer has the will or consistency to protect them in the long term.
> 
> Dangerously destabilising
> 
> Mr Trump stated on the campaign trail that Asian countries would have to take responsibility for their own defence.
> 
> “If somebody attacks Japan, we have to immediately go and start World War III, OK? If we get attacked, Japan doesn’t have to help us. Somehow, that doesn’t sound so fair,” he said at a rally late last year.
> 
> He also indicated that South Korea would have to pay far more for its own defence.
> 
> The then candidate even suggested that Japan might have to go nuclear if that was necessary to guarantee its defence against China and North Korea.
> 
> Such an approach, if implemented, would be dangerously destabilising for the entire Asia Pacific region and beyond.
> 
> Mr Trump was much given to spontaneous temporising on the campaign trail, and no-one knows what a Trump foreign policy will look like in practice.
> 
> It is possible, some analysts say, that he will build up the US military and aim to show strength in the face of China’s economic and military growth. It is not a scenario that countries such as Vietnam can rely on.
> 
> Liberal use of tariffs
> 
> The candidate was unpredictable, sensationalist and contradictory on the campaign trail.
> 
> But he was extremely consistent, to the point of monomania, about one thing: he wanted to become president to look after the interests of ordinary Americans.
> 
> He said tariffs would be used liberally to give the US the advantage back after a series of dubious trade deals.
> 
> Export-led developing economies such as Vietnam can expect little consideration from such a leader.
> 
> Pro-democracy activists and human rights campaigners in Vietnam also have reason for alarm at the US election result.
> 
> Mr Trump has spoken admiringly of authoritarian rulers, most notably Vladimir Putin.
> 
> He is unlikely to take much interest in the struggle of civil society activists for a more open society in Vietnam – a struggle of little interest to the hard pressed blue collar workers in rust belt states that propelled him to power.



My take on Trump and Vietnam / China is a bit different and the first insights that are already coming out about what he plans to do show that we should not think too much about many things that he said during the elections.

The loss of TPP will definitely be a loss for Vietnam, but in the geostrategic / military arena it will be different than what many people expect.

I think he will not be soft on China, but he will come from a very different perspective and that makes the whole difference. He will not come from the perspective that we are the big empire that wants to be in control of the planet and don't want any competitors. I think he will come from a more realistic, fair perspective as he said: "we want to get along with all those willing to get along with us". He is capable of working out agreements with Russia and China that respect everybody's interests in a reasonable manner, but if China is not willing to compromise or wants to take the US for a ride, he will not accept that and there will be conflict.

The Chinton / Obama administration with their aggressive actions to promote US empire created chaos in the middle east, moved towards conflict with Russia and pushed Russia into the arms of China, something that is not good for Vietnam. That stance also prompted China to move aggressively in SCS and as a result, we had the chinese land reclamation and other actions.

Trump will neutralised all that and restore the US / Russia relation to a more normal condition. He already reassured Korea about the alliance and his confidants said that he wants Japan to take a more active role against China. Trump is not a pushover or someone that you can play games with. He is very good at making deals and can negotiate and compromised a lot, but good luck if you try to screw him or renege on your agreements.

In trade he will be tough. Can't predict what will happen there.

@Silent Knight What's your take on this?

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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> thanks, you too
> 
> 
> really?
> 
> whatever his policy may be, by the way he once tried everything to avoid as soldier being sent to Vietnam, one thing is certain, he loves women. posting here some pics. some viet girl beauties paid visits to his office in New York, when he had not the idea to become the president of the most power country the world has ever seen
> 
> _Doan Thi Kim Hong _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Vo Hoang Yen _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Xuan Thao _



I guess Trump cannot keep his eyes to himself. He is probably thinking if he can grab her by the p***. LOL!

I did wanted Trump to win too. HIllary lies too much.



Carlosa said:


> My take on Trump and Vietnam / China is a bit different and the first insights that are already coming out about what he plans to do show that we should not think too much about many things that he said during the elections.
> 
> The loss of TPP will definitely be a loss for Vietnam, but in the geostrategic / military arena it will be different than what many people expect.
> 
> I think he will not be soft on China, but he will come from a very different perspective and that makes the whole difference. He will not come from the perspective that we are the big empire that wants to be in control of the planet and don't want any competitors. I think he will come from a more realistic, fair perspective as he said: "we want to get along with all those willing to get along with us". He is capable of working out agreements with Russia and China that respect everybody's interests in a reasonable manner, but if China is not willing to compromise or wants to take the US for a ride, he will not accept that and there will be conflict.
> 
> The Chinton / Obama administration with their aggressive actions to promote US empire created chaos in the middle east, moved towards conflict with Russia and pushed Russia into the arms of China, something that is not good for Vietnam. That stance also prompted China to move aggressively in SCS and as a result, we had the chinese land reclamation and other actions.
> 
> Trump will neutralised all that and restore the US / Russia relation to a more normal condition. He already reassured Korea about the alliance and his confidants said that he wants Japan to take a more active role against China. Trump is not a pushover or someone that you can play games with. He is very good at making deals and can negotiate and compromised a lot, but good luck if you try to screw him or renege on your agreements.
> 
> In trade he will be tough. Can't predict what will happen there.
> 
> @Silent Knight What's your take on this?



TPP is safe. Trump only does things that benefited the Americans. He's a real estate investor so he doesn't understand the Global trade deals that well and Congress won't allow him to make abrupt changes without their approvals.

But I'm pretty sure the Vietnamese know that TPP is no the only option. TPP can be dead but it doesn't mean that VIetnam cannot have free trade deals directly with US, Canada and EU, etc.

Sooner or later, Trump will realize that TPP is required to counter BRICS. I know Trump is a very competitive man. He is a strategist unlike Killary, part Laywer, only good at ripping off people. In life, three types of people I don't trust. First is a lawyer, then doctor/dentist then politician.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> My take on Trump and Vietnam / China is a bit different and the first insights that are already coming out about what he plans to do show that we should not think too much about many things that he said during the elections.
> 
> The loss of TPP will definitely be a loss for Vietnam, but in the geostrategic / military arena it will be different than what many people expect.
> 
> I think he will not be soft on China, but he will come from a very different perspective and that makes the whole difference. He will not come from the perspective that we are the big empire that wants to be in control of the planet and don't want any competitors. I think he will come from a more realistic, fair perspective as he said: "we want to get along with all those willing to get along with us". He is capable of working out agreements with Russia and China that respect everybody's interests in a reasonable manner, but if China is not willing to compromise or wants to take the US for a ride, he will not accept that and there will be conflict.
> 
> The Chinton / Obama administration with their aggressive actions to promote US empire created chaos in the middle east, moved towards conflict with Russia and pushed Russia into the arms of China, something that is not good for Vietnam. That stance also prompted China to move aggressively in SCS and as a result, we had the chinese land reclamation and other actions.
> 
> Trump will neutralised all that and restore the US / Russia relation to a more normal condition. He already reassured Korea about the alliance and his confidants said that he wants Japan to take a more active role against China. Trump is not a pushover or someone that you can play games with. He is very good at making deals and can negotiate and compromised a lot, but good luck if you try to screw him or renege on your agreements.
> 
> In trade he will be tough. Can't predict what will happen there.
> 
> @Silent Knight What's your take on this?


Donald Trump surprises all. the most remarkable thing I notice is he seems not to be the same man we know before. That is amazing. his speech after the election victory, his first interview to a media, his 100 day agenda, all the aggressive, loud and insulting rhetorics he used before are gone. He speaks more with softer tone, making thoughtful statements.

Though It is very difficult yet to predict what policy he intends for east Asia especially for Vietnam, but as you said it, I believe too, Trump will normalize the relationship to Russia. And that is not necessary a bad thing for Vietnam because Putin will likely reduce the country's dependence on China for security, money and friendship. We should look at the bright side.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Donald Trump surprises all. the most remarkable thing I notice is he seems not to be the same man we know before. That is amazing. his speech after the election victory, his first interview to a media, his 100 day agenda, all the aggressive, loud and insulting rhetorics he used before are gone. He speaks more with softer tone, making thoughtful statements.
> 
> Though It is very difficult yet to predict what policy he intends for east Asia especially for Vietnam, but as you said it, I believe too, Trump will normalize the relationship to Russia. And that is not necessary a bad thing for Vietnam because Putin will likely reduce the country's dependence on China for security, money and friendship. We should look at the bright side.



People have been misreading Trump big time. He can be nasty one day and super charming and diplomatic the next day. He adapts to the circumstances of the moment. All this talking that he is not presidential, or fit for it, etc, is incorrect and is done by people that don't really have a good understanding of the guy.

He is going to shake things up in Washington big time. I'm not saying that he is good or correct in everything, there is always a positive and a negative side. My feeling is that he is really going to confront China in a number of issues, but for real, not just talking like Obama. We'll see.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> People have been misreading Trump big time. He can be nasty one day and super charming and diplomatic the next day. He adapts to the circumstances of the moment. All this talking that he is not presidential, or fit for it, etc, is incorrect and is done by people that don't really have a good understanding of the guy.
> 
> He is going to shake things up in Washington big time. I'm not saying that he is good or correct in everything, there is always a positive and a negative side. My feeling is that he is really going to confront China in a number of issues, but for real, not just talking like Obama. We'll see.


I myself thought recently he was just a polit clown. how wrong I was 
a news on the nuclear front: I had hoped for. we will delay but not cancel it.

-----

*Vietnam 'Suspends, Not Scraps' Deal With Russia to Build Country’s First NPP *

12.11.2016 Sputnik






Picture: Students look at a model of a Russian nuclear-power plant on display at an exhibition held in Hanoi in 2012. Photo: Agence France-Presse/Getty Images


Earlier this week, the Vietnamese government announced its decision to scrap its plan to construct the first nuclear power plant in the country. The proposal is expected to be ratified by the National Assembly later this month.

The plan to build two NPPs in the central province of Ninh Thuan was ratified by the National Assembly in 2009. The government had chosen Russia’s nuclear energy company Rosatom and Japan Atomic Power Co. to build the plants.

Initially scheduled to start in 2014 and be completed by 2020, construction has been delayed several times since then. In 2010, Moscow and Hanoi signed an intergovernmental agreement on energy cooperation. The document included construction of the country’s first NPP, Ninh Thuan-1. The agreement also presumed a Russian state loan of $8 billion to fund the project.

However, it would be incorrect to say that Vietnam has abandoned plans to cooperate with Russia in nuclear energy, said Rafael Arutyunyan, deputy research director at the Nuclear Safety Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences. "Vietnam wanted to build two nuclear power plants, the first with Russia and the other with Japan. There were also talks about a third NPP, in cooperation with South Korea. It is completely incorrect to say now that Vietnam has scrapped a project with Russia. The situation is about revising the national nuclear energy plan," Arutyunyan said in an exclusive interview with Sputnik Vietnam.

The expert said there are several domestic reasons behind the decision of the Vietnamese government.

"First, it is economy. Two years ago, Vietnam saw acceleration in growth but now its economy is slowing down. As a result, energy consumption has decreased, and the government now does not expect a shortage in electricity," he pointed out. He added that now there is less money in Vietnam than two years ago, which also creates an additional obstacle for construction of an NPP.

"Second, despite the long-standing plans to build an NPP, Vietnam still lacks nuclear infrastructure and a legal framework to keep nuclear energy facilities operating. When a country wants to build its first NPP usually this is a very difficult and time-consuming process. Such a country needs a nuclear regulator to control all nuclear energy related operations. Well-trained personnel are also needed. Currently, Vietnam cannot match both requirements," Arutyunyan said.

However, because of the advantages of nuclear energy, including low production costs and the high level of environmental safety, the "Russia-Vietnamese project will be delayed, but not scrapped," he suggested.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/business/201611121047371142-vietnam-russia-nuclear-energy/

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## ahojunk

*Senior Chinese, Vietnamese leaders pledge to push forward comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership*
2016-11-12 08:57 | Xinhua | _Editor: Li Yan_

Senior Chinese and Vietnamese leaders have pledged to push forward the bilateral comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership to a new level.

They made the pledge during a friendly official visit to Vietnam by Zhang Dejiang, member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, and chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, China's top legislature.

At the invitation of his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan, chairwoman of the National Assembly of Vietnam, who is also a member of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam, Zhang arrived in Hanoi on Tuesday afternoon for a four-day friendly official visit to Vietnam which concluded on Friday.

During his visit in Hanoi, Zhang met with Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee, Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, and held talks with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan.

Zhang also briefed the Vietnamese leaders about the sixth plenary session of the 18th CPC Central Committee, held in Beijing late last month.

*STRENGTHENING PARTY RELATIONS OF CRUCIAL IMPORTANCE TO BILATERAL TIES*

In meeting with Trong, Zhang conveyed the greetings to Trong from Xi Jinping, general secretary of the CPC Central Committee. Zhang also spoke highly of achievements made by the party and state of Vietnam in recent years.

Zhang said both China and Vietnam are socialist countries under the Communist Party leadership, and it is of crucial importance to strengthen and deepen the relations between the two parties.

The Chinese side is ready to exert joint efforts with Vietnam to implement the important consensus reached by both party leaders, based on the 16-character motto of "friendly neighbourliness, comprehensive cooperation, durable stability and looking toward the future" as well as the "four good" spirit of "good neighbours, good friends, good comrades and good partners," said Zhang.

Zhang also called for both sides to carry on the traditional friendship, strengthen strategic guidance and the docking of development strategies, enrich the connotation of cooperation, enhance communications and consultation, eliminate the interferences, increase people to people exchanges, and constantly consolidate and deepen the Sino-Vietnam community of common destiny.

Trong said Vietnam's new party and state leadership attach great importance to the bilateral traditional friendship and comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership.

Vietnam will never forget China's non-selfish support in the past, and regard developing friendly ties with China as its "strategic choice and top priority in foreign policy," said the CPV general secretary.

Vietnam is ready to exert joint efforts with China, to enhance political mutual trust, expand pragmatic cooperation, properly control the differences, thus to carry on the bilateral traditional friendship from generations to generations, he added.

*SINO-VIETNAM RELATIONS MAINTAIN POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT TREND*

In meeting with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang in Hanoi on Wednesday, Zhang conveyed President Xi Jinping's greetings.

Zhang said, under the strategic guidance by the general secretaries of both parties, bilateral relationship, in overall, maintain positive development trend with the perception of "community of common destiny" gradually be rooted among people in both countries.

The two sides should grasp the correct development direction of bilateral ties, constantly consolidate the political, economic and social foundation, thus pushing forward the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership to develop in a steady and healthy manner, said the top Chinese legislator.

The Vietnamese president asked Zhang to convey his greetings to Chinese President Xi Jinping and said his country value the traditional friendship with China and will exert all efforts to developing bilateral ties.

*EXPLORING NEW HIGHLIGHTS OF PRAGMATIC COOPERATION*

During his meeting with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, Zhang termed economic and trade cooperation as "important foundation" of bilateral ties.

In recent years, as pragmatic cooperation between the two countries maintain sound development in various areas, the two countries should make overall arrangements and well implement the cooperation projects, speed up the docking of the Belt and Road Initiative and Vietnam's "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan, so as to bring about fruitful results to benefits both peoples.

The Vietnamese prime minister agreed with Zhang's suggestion, and said Vietnam is ready to seize the development opportunities, brought about by the docking of development strategies between the Belt and Road Initiative and "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan, and constantly pushing forward the bilateral mutually-beneficial cooperation to a higher level.

*SHARING EXPERIENCES IN PARTY BUILDING, GOVERNANCE AND LEGISLATIVE SUPERVISION*

In meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan, chairwoman of the National Assembly of Vietnam, Zhang said the two legislative bodies boast fruitful exchange and cooperation results since they established friendly ties 60 years ago.

Both sides should make it a priority to well implement the important consensus reached by both party chiefs, enhance friendly exchanges at all levels and all areas, and share experiences in party building, governance and legislative supervision, thus creating sound policy and law environment for economic and trade cooperation and personnel flow.

The Vietnamese top legislator pledged utmost efforts to safeguard the bilateral friendship and advance the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership.

During the visit, Zhang also attended the Sino-Vietnam Friendly Cooperation Forum and the 3rd Sino-Vietnam Youth Festival in Hanoi.

Zhang concluded his visit and was back to Beijing on Friday.

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## Viet

*Meet the First Ever Vietnamese-American Woman Elected to Congress*

By Carl Samson
Posted on November 9, 2016





*Democrat Stephanie Murphy, an educator, businesswoman, and former national security specialist is the first ever Vietnamese-American woman to be elected to the U.S. Congress.*

Murphy unseated 12-term Republican representative John Mica with over 51% of the votes cast in Florida’s 7th Congressional District race.

She spoke of her victory (via Orlando Sentinel):

“When I entered this race, very few people thought we could win. We had a huge challenge ahead of us. We didn’t want to just make a difference. We wanted to make a point. That point is that this county is not going to tolerate dysfunction and deadlock. That every child should have a fair shot at the American dream.”

According to the local news, Murphy tied Mica to Donald Trump, whose inflammatory comments affected other Republicans during the campaign period. In TV ads, she criticized Mica for taking money from the National Rifle Association days after a nightclub massacre in Orlando.

Murphy’s family immigrated to the United States back when she was a one-year-old, according to NBC News. Her parents were blue-collar workers who cleaned office buildings at night to support their family. She is the first woman in her family to ever attend college, obtaining a B.A. in economics from the College of William and Mary and an M.S. in foreign service from Georgetown University.














In addition, she promised to “work with both Democrats and Republicans” and “always put people over politics.”

Meanwhile, Mica, who easily won the last 12 elections, conceded to Murphy on Tuesday night:

“It has been my honor to serve the district, state, and nation and I’m proud of my accomplishments both in Florida and in leadership positions in Congress.”

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I myself thought recently he was just a polit clown. how wrong I was
> a news on the nuclear front: I had hoped for. we will delay but not cancel it.
> 
> -----
> 
> *Vietnam 'Suspends, Not Scraps' Deal With Russia to Build Country’s First NPP *
> 
> 12.11.2016 Sputnik
> 
> View attachment 351620
> 
> Picture: Students look at a model of a Russian nuclear-power plant on display at an exhibition held in Hanoi in 2012. Photo: Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
> 
> 
> Earlier this week, the Vietnamese government announced its decision to scrap its plan to construct the first nuclear power plant in the country. The proposal is expected to be ratified by the National Assembly later this month.
> 
> The plan to build two NPPs in the central province of Ninh Thuan was ratified by the National Assembly in 2009. The government had chosen Russia’s nuclear energy company Rosatom and Japan Atomic Power Co. to build the plants.
> 
> Initially scheduled to start in 2014 and be completed by 2020, construction has been delayed several times since then. In 2010, Moscow and Hanoi signed an intergovernmental agreement on energy cooperation. The document included construction of the country’s first NPP, Ninh Thuan-1. The agreement also presumed a Russian state loan of $8 billion to fund the project.
> 
> However, it would be incorrect to say that Vietnam has abandoned plans to cooperate with Russia in nuclear energy, said Rafael Arutyunyan, deputy research director at the Nuclear Safety Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences. "Vietnam wanted to build two nuclear power plants, the first with Russia and the other with Japan. There were also talks about a third NPP, in cooperation with South Korea. It is completely incorrect to say now that Vietnam has scrapped a project with Russia. The situation is about revising the national nuclear energy plan," Arutyunyan said in an exclusive interview with Sputnik Vietnam.
> 
> The expert said there are several domestic reasons behind the decision of the Vietnamese government.
> 
> "First, it is economy. Two years ago, Vietnam saw acceleration in growth but now its economy is slowing down. As a result, energy consumption has decreased, and the government now does not expect a shortage in electricity," he pointed out. He added that now there is less money in Vietnam than two years ago, which also creates an additional obstacle for construction of an NPP.
> 
> "Second, despite the long-standing plans to build an NPP, Vietnam still lacks nuclear infrastructure and a legal framework to keep nuclear energy facilities operating. When a country wants to build its first NPP usually this is a very difficult and time-consuming process. Such a country needs a nuclear regulator to control all nuclear energy related operations. Well-trained personnel are also needed. Currently, Vietnam cannot match both requirements," Arutyunyan said.
> 
> However, because of the advantages of nuclear energy, including low production costs and the high level of environmental safety, the "Russia-Vietnamese project will be delayed, but not scrapped," he suggested.
> 
> Read more: https://sputniknews.com/business/201611121047371142-vietnam-russia-nuclear-energy/



I think the determining issue for the nuclear plants is cost. The reason for the cancellation is because the cost doubled as a consequence of revisions done after the Fukushima disaster, so unless the cost factor changes, I doubt it will ever happen, but we'll see. I'd like to see the new bigger research reactor going forward.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I think the determining issue for the nuclear plants is cost. The reason for the cancellation is because the cost doubled as a consequence of revisions done after the Fukushima disaster, so unless the cost factor changes, I doubt it will ever happen, but we'll see. I'd like to see the new bigger research reactor going forward.


yes the fukushima disaster has changed everything, and increased massively the costs for constructions and safety measures. too much for the government budget. but I believe the fundings were secured because Russia and Japan promised to finance the plants by cheap loans. even if now the total cost increases, both Russia and Japan are willing to provide more money. Anyway that is now a thing out of reach if the parliement imposes a lower debt ceiling for the coming years. the germans decided to completely shutdown all nuclear power plants and turn to green energy, an U-turn, nobody had expected before fukushima.

you mean the 2 new planned $500 million nuclear research centres, one in Hanoi, one in Dalat, 15MW each? from the news, they are under construction and expected to be completed in 2020, though there are no pictures available to public. I think the plants are sensitive if not a no go area for common folks.

this one is the exising nuclear research centre in Dalat.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yes the fukushima disaster has changed everything, and increased massively the costs for constructions and safety measures. too much for the government budget. but I believe the fundings were secured because Russia and Japan promised to finance the plants by cheap loans. even if now the total cost increases, both Russia and Japan are willing to provide more money. Anyway that is now a thing out of reach if the parliement imposes a lower debt ceiling for the coming years. the germans decided to completely shutdown all nuclear power plants and turn to green energy, an U-turn, nobody had expected before fukushima.
> 
> you mean the 2 new planned $500 million nuclear research centres, one in Hanoi, one in Dalat, 15MW each? from the news, they are under construction and expected to be completed in 2020, though there are no pictures available to public. I think the plants are sensitive if not a no go area for common folks.
> 
> this one is the exising nuclear research centre in Dalat.



Yes, I meant those 2 research reactors.

The problem with the increased cost of building the nuclear plants is that is not only that the cost of construction has increased, but as the head of the Vietnamese electrical company said, the cost of the electricity produced by the plants has also become too high and is no longer competitive with other power sources and that's actually the main reason why they are canceling the projects.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, I meant those 2 research reactors.
> 
> The problem with the increased cost of building the nuclear plants is that is not only that the cost of construction has increased, but as the head of the Vietnamese electrical company said, the cost of the electricity produced by the plants has also become too high and is no longer competitive with other power sources and that's actually the main reason why they are canceling the projects.


Looks to be. There is no other option than stopping the program. One nuclear power plant with total capacity of 4,400 MW for $18 billions is too crazy to go ahead. As the government previously agreed to have 2 plants, one from Russia, one from Japan, both would cost $36 billions. Simply nuts. Coal fired power plants with similar capacity cost a fraction of the sum.

Just reading the news. The parliament has approved pulling the plug. Too bad, we can also scrap many investments that were made for the plants in advance. The higher cost comes because Vietnam wants a higher security standard after Fukushima as one official reveals.

I think both the Russians and Japanese aren't amused.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Looks to be. There is no other option than stopping the program. One nuclear power plant with total capacity of 4,400 MW for $18 billions is too crazy to go ahead. As the government previously agreed to have 2 plants, one from Russia, one from Japan, both would cost $36 billions. Simply nuts. Coal fired power plants with similar capacity cost a fraction of the sum.
> 
> Just reading the news. The parliament has approved pulling the plug. Too bad, we can also scrap many investments that were made for the plants in advance. The higher cost comes because Vietnam wants a higher security standard after Fukushima as one official reveals.
> 
> I think both the Russians and Japanese aren't amused.



Yes, safety first, an small country like Vietnam can't afford a Fukushima.


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## Carlosa

*Broken rules at $11 bln Formosa mill triggered Vietnam spill, report says*
*http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-3932792/Broken-rules-11-bln-Formosa-triggered-Vietnam-spill-report-says.html*
By Reuters

Published: 23:00 GMT, 13 November 2016 | Updated: 23:00 GMT, 13 November 2016

By Jess Macy Yu and Faith Hung

HONG KONG/TAIPEI, Nov 14 (Reuters) - More than 50 violations at a steel mill run by Taiwan's Formosa Plastics Group, including the unauthorised use of a dirtier production process, led to Vietnam's worst environmental disaster, according to an internal government report.

The July report, reviewed by Reuters, is the first official document to emerge publicly since the April accident, when a toxic leak sullied over 200 km (125 miles) of coastline, killed more than 100 tonnes of fish and left thousands jobless.

After months of popular outrage against both the Hanoi government and one of the communist state's largest investors, Formosa agreed in June to pay $500 million in compensation.

The report, signed by Vietnam's environment minister and written after consultation with an unidentified panel of international experts, said Formosa did not keep to production plans agreed in original environmental assessments made for the $10.6 billion project.

Begun in 2008, the plant was still ramping up at the time of the spill and working at less than 25 percent of total capacity, according to a Formosa Ha Tinh Steel official.

But it was not using the processing system agreed with Hanoi authorities, the report said.

Formosa was using 'wet' coking - a system which uses water for cooling and is considered more polluting, as it generates more emissions and wastewater containing compounds including cyanide.

The alternative 'dry' process, widely used in modern plants, is costlier and does not use water. That proved critical when a power cut disabled the plant's waste processing equipment, spilling contaminated water into the sea, according to the report.

Formosa officials agreed it was using the dirtier process but said it had until 2019 to switch to cleaner methods.

"We are following their instructions and trying our very best to do what is required," Formosa Ha Tinh Steel (FHS) executive vice president Chang Fu-ning told Reuters.

Vietnam's Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Ministry of Natural Resources and Environment did not respond to written questions and requests for comment on the report or the plant.

Chang said Formosa had rectified 45 of 53 violations cited since the July report. Seven more will be fixed by the end of the month he said, without giving details.

The plant was now scheduled to begin full commercial production in the first quarter of 2017, subject to approvals, Chang added.

RESTARTING?

Thousands of people from the affected regions have criticised the government for its handling of the disaster and the payment of compensation, and accused the police of heavy-handed measures to break up demonstrations sparked by the spill.

In a rare criticism from an active parliamentarian, Tran Cong Thuat, Deputy Secretary of the Provincial Party Committee of Quang Binh, one of four affected provinces, said this month that everything would be need to be "clear" before FHS scaled up.

"No one (from the government) has ever stepped up to take responsibility over the illegal discharge by Formosa," he said in televised comments. "If the issue is not made clear and violations are not resolved, we must resolutely not let Formosa operate."

Formosa has plans to expand the steel plant to become the biggest of its kind in Southeast Asia, including a deepwater port and 1,500-megawatt thermal power complex.

Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc has threatened to close down the Formosa plant if there is a repeat.

The report said Formosa's failures included omitting a planned water storage dam, a measure which according to experts could have kept tainted water out of the sea even during a power outage.

FHS's Chang said the company had committed to build a facility to gather and hold waste water.

Friedhelm Schroeder, an academic who was among a group of foreign experts invited by the Vietnam government to assess the damage, said experts had identified other failings.

"What the company should have done was shut off all the production of coke, so the toxic substance would not reach the sewage plant," said Schroeder, from the Institute Coastal Research in Germany.

An FHS official declined to comment on that aspect and the report by the foreign experts has not been made public.

The lack of information released about the accident has galvanised many Vietnamese and mobilised demonstrators on a scale not seen before in the controlled, one-party state that tolerates little dissent.

Anger and mistrust mounted after the government initially said the mass fish deaths could be the result of "red tide", when algae blooms and produces toxins, or a release of toxic chemicals by humans, but there was nothing linking FHS to it.

"We see there is some cover up for Formosa, which is completely opposite from governments in other countries," said Bishop Nguyen Thai Hop, the head of the Catholic community in several provinces which have been fighting to protect the environment.

"Until now Formosa and the government haven't used any advanced technology to clean up the Vietnamese sea, and haven't been able to say when the central region's sea will be clean as before."

A state television broadcast last week highlighted how the government was reimbursing seafood businesses and promoting tourism in areas affected by the spill.

The Labor Ministry estimates some 263,000 workers have been impacted by the Formosa incident, including nearly 40,000 workers in the four provinces directly affected. (Writing by Clara Ferreira Marques; Editing by Lincoln Feast)


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## Carlosa

*The man who will likely lead the Navy under Trump means business in the South China Sea*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/randy-forbes-navy-trump-south-china-sea-2016-11*



A family enjoys Gator Beach as an Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer is underway off the coast of Southern California. US Navy/Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Timothy M. Black

When President-elect Donald Trump spoke about expanding the Navy to 350 ships in his September national security speech, he's most likely taking his cues from Randy Forbes, the Republican Congressman from Virginia poised to take over as Secretary of the Navy in a Trump administration.

“The 350-ship navy, cruiser modernization – those naval planks [in Donald Trump’s policies] are lifted from Randy Forbes,” a source familiar with the matter told USNI News.

The president appoints a Secretary of the Navy to "conduct, all affairs of the Department of the Navy," which includes the Marine Corps. Trump, during his speech, said he wants to greatly increase the size of both the Navy and the Marines, and to generally "rebuild our military."

Additionally, Trump mentioned buying newer destroyers to bulk up the Navy's fleet of 272 ships, most likely with Zumwalt class destroyers, but the Navy has struggled so far to field those.

Forbes, a military adviser to Trump during his campaign, serves as a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, and makes it plain on his website that he is "one of the nation’s most forceful advocates for a strong national defense."

In September, Forbes asserted before Congress that "more than rhetoric is required to counterbalance China’s growing military power and assertiveness," referring to China's artificial island building and militarization in the South China Sea, as well as China ignoring an international court ruling that said its claims in the region were illegal.

China has declared "no fly" and "no sail" zones in international waters in the Pacific that have gone unchallenged by the US in the last few years. Increasingly Beijing bullies ships from its neighbors, some of whom are US allies.




An F-35 Lightning II Carrier Variant (CV) piloted by U.S. Marine Corps Maj. Robert “Champ” Guyette II, a test pilot from the F-35 Pax River Integrated Test Force (ITF) assigned to the Salty Dogs of Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23, flies over the stealth guided-missile destroyer USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) as the ship transits the Chesapeake Bay on Oct. 17, 2016. US Navy/Andy Wolfe

In September 2015, Forbes wrote a letter urging Obama to increase the Navy's presence in the region, and has been bullish on the prospect of projecting power in the South China Sea for some time.

Forbes has advocated an increased US presence in the region, as well as modernizing and increasing the size of the Navy's fleet as China makes spectacular progress in updating its own navy.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, safety first, an small country like Vietnam can't afford a Fukushima.


No we can't afford such a nuclear disaster in Vietnam. But worse, if our enemy runs amok, threatening or even resorting to nuclear weapons. We should have the capability to revenge. I think the best thing to go now is developing a cheaper variant of nuclear power plants, and later build them by ourselves. We will have advanced nuclear research complex in a few years. We don't start by zero. we have personal that are being trained in Russia and Japan. No need to mention Nuclear power plants produce a byproduct that is necessary for nuclear weapon: plutonium.

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## vtnsx

I think I have brush up a bit about Nuclear Energy. Nuclear Fission is very risky, Vietnam gov should look into Nuclear fusion. It's just me but I still think Vietnam should have the greatest and latest tech that put safety always first. A lot to ask for Vietnam but people have to work together to make this happen.



Carlosa said:


> *The man who will likely lead the Navy under Trump means business in the South China Sea*
> *http://www.businessinsider.com/randy-forbes-navy-trump-south-china-sea-2016-11*
> 
> 
> 
> A family enjoys Gator Beach as an Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer is underway off the coast of Southern California. US Navy/Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Timothy M. Black
> 
> When President-elect Donald Trump spoke about expanding the Navy to 350 ships in his September national security speech, he's most likely taking his cues from Randy Forbes, the Republican Congressman from Virginia poised to take over as Secretary of the Navy in a Trump administration.
> 
> “The 350-ship navy, cruiser modernization – those naval planks [in Donald Trump’s policies] are lifted from Randy Forbes,” a source familiar with the matter told USNI News.
> 
> The president appoints a Secretary of the Navy to "conduct, all affairs of the Department of the Navy," which includes the Marine Corps. Trump, during his speech, said he wants to greatly increase the size of both the Navy and the Marines, and to generally "rebuild our military."
> 
> Additionally, Trump mentioned buying newer destroyers to bulk up the Navy's fleet of 272 ships, most likely with Zumwalt class destroyers, but the Navy has struggled so far to field those.
> 
> Forbes, a military adviser to Trump during his campaign, serves as a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, and makes it plain on his website that he is "one of the nation’s most forceful advocates for a strong national defense."
> 
> In September, Forbes asserted before Congress that "more than rhetoric is required to counterbalance China’s growing military power and assertiveness," referring to China's artificial island building and militarization in the South China Sea, as well as China ignoring an international court ruling that said its claims in the region were illegal.
> 
> China has declared "no fly" and "no sail" zones in international waters in the Pacific that have gone unchallenged by the US in the last few years. Increasingly Beijing bullies ships from its neighbors, some of whom are US allies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An F-35 Lightning II Carrier Variant (CV) piloted by U.S. Marine Corps Maj. Robert “Champ” Guyette II, a test pilot from the F-35 Pax River Integrated Test Force (ITF) assigned to the Salty Dogs of Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23, flies over the stealth guided-missile destroyer USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) as the ship transits the Chesapeake Bay on Oct. 17, 2016. US Navy/Andy Wolfe
> 
> In September 2015, Forbes wrote a letter urging Obama to increase the Navy's presence in the region, and has been bullish on the prospect of projecting power in the South China Sea for some time.
> 
> Forbes has advocated an increased US presence in the region, as well as modernizing and increasing the size of the Navy's fleet as China makes spectacular progress in updating its own navy.



President Donald Trump will send more US Navies to that area. Trump wouldn't back down by the Chinese.

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## Viet

vtnsx said:


> I think I have brush up a bit about Nuclear Energy. Nuclear Fission is very risky, Vietnam gov should look into Nuclear fusion. It's just me but I still think Vietnam should have the greatest and latest tech that put safety always first. A lot to ask for Vietnam but people have to work together to make this happen.
> 
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump will send more US Navies to that area. Trump wouldn't back down by the Chinese.


nuclear energy is certainly risky, more risky than let say coal powered plant. actually risk exists everywhere, it is question of controlling risk. even going over any street in Vietnam is risky. you know what I mean 

hundred of years ago when gunpowder was invented in China, everyone feared of the devil stuff. until someone invented the most powerful weapon of human history till then: weapons filled by gunpowder. look at this: made in Vietnam hand guns, cannon and artillery during Dai Viet period of 14 century, displayed at Vietnam military museum.

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## Viet

Launch of a new ship for the Coast Guard (Fishery department)

manufactured by X51 shipyard, ship coded KN-265, 770 tons, length 56 m, wide 8.2 m, top speed 18 knots. a specialty: two modern japan made ship engines enable the vessel to operate 60 days continuously at sea. max range 5,000 miles.


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Donald Trump surprises all. the most remarkable thing I notice is he seems not to be the same man we know before. That is amazing. his speech after the election victory, his first interview to a media, his 100 day agenda, all the aggressive, loud and insulting rhetorics he used before are gone. He speaks more with softer tone, making thoughtful statements.
> 
> Though It is very difficult yet to predict what policy he intends for east Asia especially for Vietnam, but as you said it, I believe too, Trump will normalize the relationship to Russia. And that is not necessary a bad thing for Vietnam because Putin will *likely reduce* the country's dependence on China for security, money and friendship. We should look at the bright side.



 Putin is not gonna reduce any of it. You and Carlosa are wrong again (as usual). Hey you don't have to believe me, the past few years have already proven how right we are in predicting the outcome of the China pivot by the Obama-Hillary strategy. Not only did Obama back off, nobody listened to Abe's cries pressuring China to accept that garbage verdict, we maximized our land reclamation, Durterte siding with China, Malaysia now getting closer as well. In the end Vietnam is left alone with TPP dead. So how did it work out for you guys who were so sure of the China containment game? Did Obama removing the arms embargo resulted in advanced subs,destroyers for Vietnam (for free)? We already said TPP would be dead for some years and guess what? It actually died. Trump can bash China all he wants during his campaign, truth is he is now softening his tone and soon he will understand that China is way too important for America (not Vietnam). Good luck to him if he thinks he can get all the jobs back from China,Vietnam and other South(East) Asian countries or Mexico. As for Russia, we will deepening our economic and military ties despite Trump praising Putin all the time. THAAD is a very sensitive issue and as long it's still there the Russians shall consider that as a serious threat to their security. Everybody who has a brain knows the US is broke, the Russians would be stupid to believe better ties with Trump would benefit Russia economically.

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## Aqsuperman

Pictures of the the 923rd regiment. Including Su-30s peace time housing facilities and a close look at the 30mm cannon.

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## Carlosa

terranMarine said:


> Putin is not gonna reduce any of it. You and Carlosa are wrong again (as usual). Hey you don't have to believe me, the past few years have already proven how right we are in predicting the outcome of the China pivot by the Obama-Hillary strategy. Not only did Obama back off, nobody listened to Abe's cries pressuring China to accept that garbage verdict, we maximized our land reclamation, Durterte siding with China, Malaysia now getting closer as well. In the end Vietnam is left alone with TPP dead. So how did it work out for you guys who were so sure of the China containment game? Did Obama removing the arms embargo resulted in advanced subs,destroyers for Vietnam (for free)? We already said TPP would be dead for some years and guess what? It actually died. Trump can bash China all he wants during his campaign, truth is he is now softening his tone and soon he will understand that China is way too important for America (not Vietnam). Good luck to him if he thinks he can get all the jobs back from China,Vietnam and other South(East) Asian countries or Mexico. As for Russia, we will deepening our economic and military ties despite Trump praising Putin all the time. THAAD is a very sensitive issue and as long it's still there the Russians shall consider that as a serious threat to their security. Everybody who has a brain knows the US is broke, the Russians would be stupid to believe better ties with Trump would benefit Russia economically.



Putin is not going to reduce dependence on China because you say so? We'll see, but based on what appears that is going to happen and considering that the Russians don't fully trust China, I'd say that they will.

TPP is dead when is officially pronounced dead; as you said, Trump is softening his tone.

All the early signs indicate that as much as he wants to negotiate a grand bargain with China, he will not compromise on the security issues with China including SCS and unlike Obama that just talks, this guy is serious and he vowed to add a lot of military muscle. The chinese free ride with USA is about to be over.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Putin is not going to reduce dependence on China because you say so? We'll see, but based on what appears that is going to happen and considering that the Russians don't fully trust China, I'd say that they will.
> 
> TPP is dead when is officially pronounced dead; as you said, Trump is softening his tone.
> 
> All the early signs indicate that as much as he wants to negotiate a grand bargain with China, he will not compromise on the security issues with China including SCS and unlike Obama that just talks, this guy is serious and he vowed to add a lot of military muscle. The chinese free ride with USA is about to be over.


I think we should deepen our relationship to small but strategic important nations instead of relying too much on big elephants. the bigger boys don´t spend too much time and effort on smaller boys as Vietnam. Israel for instance is extremely important. on a visit to Israel recently, Vietnam´s Public Security Minister chief Lam meets with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. one of the agreements: establishing a link between Vietnam and Israel National Security Councils.

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## Viet

fresh refurbished and repaired by X32 factory


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## Viet

an interesting figure that is revealed by an official at a recent summit between the government of vietnam and viet kieu. the 4.5 millions have a combined yearly income of $100 billion. enough money to push both economy and military to next level, making hooligans harder to bully us.

a viet girl in Australia

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## Carlosa

*How TPP Can Survive Trump*
It’s too early to declare the agreement dead, and countries are already weighing alternatives.





By Prashanth Parameswaran
November 17, 2016

http://thediplomat.com/2016/11/how-tpp-can-survive-trump/

With the shock election of Donald Trump, the ratification of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement looks all but impossible.

There was initially some hope that the pact might be approved during the lame duck session of Congress before a president Hillary Clinton takes office. But given president-elect Trump’s fierce opposition to the deal and Congressional Republican opposition voting on it, there has been a flood of commentary in the United States indicating that TPP is now effectively dead, though, to be fair, we still know very little about what his administration will actually do (See: “What Will Donald Trump’s Asia Policy Look Like?”).

It might be too soon to bury the TPP, however. There are in fact already whispers among U.S. and Asian thinkers about how the agreement could yet survive even after Trump, either fully in its current or modified form or partly by salvaging some of its key benefits through alternate pathways or visions. Given the importance of the pact, it is worth briefly exploring what these are.

*Cost of Failure*

Before proceeding, let me be clear: TPP’s demise would be a major blow to the United States both economically and strategically.

Economically, apart from the usual gains in any traditional trade pact, Washington would also lose a valuable opportunity to write the rules of 21st century trade – including in areas where it would break new ground like state-owned enterprises and the digital economy. Since the TPP, unlike bilateral deals, has “open architecture,” the United States would also be deprived of an initiative that could help both attract new members and generate a race to the top in terms of trade pacts regionally and even globally.

Strategically, the TPP’s failure would reinforce doubts about U.S. credibility in the region amid a rising China and undermine Washington’s efforts to strengthen the capabilities of its Asian allies and partners.

That said, given where we are now, it is worth considering the alternatives that exist as a Trump administration takes office.

*Renegotiation?*

One possible (though at this stage admittedly unlikely) scenario is that Trump would actually look to seriously renegotiate the TPP. From a practical standpoint, that would seem to be the way to both address the concerns he has with the agreement while ensuring that the United States does not lose out on its benefits.

Though that might seem sensible, as of now it seems like a rather improbable future. While Trump has certainly shown a willingness to be flexible on some issues, his opposition to free trade has spanned decades and was also a key part of his campaign. Trump included his promise to withdraw from the TPP in his to-do-list for his first 100 days in office, and his advisers have given few indications that he will reverse his position on this.

Even if Trump chooses to go through with renegotiation, the process will not be easy. Other signatories have already both privately and publicly warned Washington that given how difficult it was for them to negotiate the deal once with their publics, doing so a second time would be a step too far.

*TPP Minus US…For Now*

A more likely scenario might be the other existing signatories initially moving forward with TPP without the United States, with Washington coming on board at a later time.

If this could be accomplished, it would seem to be a win-win. Signatories would be able to extend the current provisions to themselves so that they do not lose out on the benefits, while Washington would be given time needed to muster the domestic consensus needed to finalize the pact. The Trump administration could either find a way to get the United States back in, or, more likely, Washington and the world could simply wait for the next administration to do so.

Such an outcome would not be unprecedented for U.S. policy. As Jeffrey Schott, an expert at the Peterson Institute of International Economics, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank, recalled in a note this week, when Congress failed to vote on the Havana Charter for an International Trade Organization (ITO), the planned trade regime for the post-World War II era, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) became the de facto trade regime until a new agreement established what we now call the World Trade Organization (WTO) nearly half a century later.

Getting to this, however, will not be easy. One of the key reasons why some of the signatories were on board with the TPP in the first place was that they would gain access to the U.S. market. Washington’s exclusion may alter their decision to be involved in the pact.

Procedurally, it would also require an amendment to the original agreement. Currently, the enactment provisions for TPP under Article 30 stipulate that the agreement would come into force either if all 12 original signatories ratify it within two years of the date of its signing, or, alternatively, if at least six of them which together account for at least 85 percent of the combined GDP of the original signatories in 2013 do so. Under that provision, finalizing TPP would be impossible without Japan and the United States which, at the time of signing, accounted for around 80 percent of GDP. But Article 30 also specifies that TPP members can make amendments to the agreement as well, and so if the signatories determine that they would like to adopt this course, they could consider that possibility.

*Picking Up the Pieces*

Even if the TPP does not move forward in its current form or a revised one, it would still be possible for countries to preserve some of the key benefits inherent in the agreement.

For example, from a U.S. perspective, a point often missed about the TPP is that Washington already enjoys free trade agreements with most of the TPP members, with Japan, Malaysia and Vietnam being the major exceptions. If TPP cannot move forward for now, the United States and these countries could move quickly to conclude bilateral FTAs that would have essentially occurred under the agreement. Other countries have privately and publicly been saying that they are also likely to move forward with concluding bilateral deals as well.

Doing so will not be easy. Some bilateral pacts have been either contemplated or partly negotiated before, as was the case with the U.S.-Malaysia free trade agreement during the Bush administration which eventually lost steam. Although Trump advisers say that the administration would be more open to bilateral FTAs than multilateral ones, actually negotiating these pacts is nonetheless likely to be difficult given the protectionist bent we have seen from the next administration thus far.

Even if this is possible, optics-wise, admittedly, negotiating a series of high-standard bilateral deals will not look as impressive as a U.S.-led, single multilateral effort. Substantively, as mentioned earlier, bilateral agreements also lack the ability to attract others into them unlike multilateral initiatives with “open architecture” like the TPP.

But it is also true that irrespective of whether Washington does it through one big multilateral deal or a few high-standard bilateral agreements that serve as models for others, it would essentially be accomplishing the same objective: writing the rules of the 21st century for trade and generating a race to the top among countries in the region as well as globally. In addition, this would be tied to other U.S. economic initiatives that aim to foster the same thing, since trade is only one component of economic policy, which is in turn just a sphere within wider U.S. Asia policy.

That big picture is worth keeping in mind even as we hear talk of TPP’s demise – whether it is the agreement itself as it stands, modifications of it, or its spirit. Though that may well come to pass, alternatives that can lead to its full or partial survival ought not to be dismissed.

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## Viet

a repost, still a great thing. Various Tar 21 variants and Galil SR99 assault rifles for the Marines. successfully tested with Vietnam made 5,56 x 45 mm, 7,62 x 51 mm bullets, and 40 mm grenade.











Ctar21





Tar21 with grenade launcher





Galil SR99

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## Carlosa

*From foes to partnership, Vietnam seeks continued U.S. role in Asia*
*http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ietnam-seeks-continued-us-role-asia/93984944/
*
WASHINGTON — Vietnam wants the United States to remain engaged in Asia and play a greater role in connecting the former enemy to U.S. allies in the region, its ambassador said Wednesday.

“We need the United States to remain engaged,” said Pham Quang Vinh, Vietnam's ambassador to Washington, at an event organized by the Center for the National Interest.

Vinh spoke as President-elect Donald Trump was putting together his leadership team and Cabinet. During the campaign, Trump slammed the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement reached this year between the United States and 11 Pacific nations, including Vietnam. Trump also called for U.S. allies in Asia to assume more responsibility for their own defense.

“I’m not quite sure yet about the emerging policies of the new administration,” Vinh said.

He did note that “Asia is on the rise,” with 60% of world GDP, 50% of the world’s market for goods, the No. 2 and 3 top economies in the world with China and Japan, plus the fastest growing markets for U.S. products.

Vietnam, which fought a 21-year war with the United States ending in 1975, when the U.S. withdrew its forces, is now a growing trading partner with the U.S. The two countries also have collaborated to find the remains of missing U.S. service members, clear land mines and remove dioxins left from the conflict. And Vietnam and the U.S. have agreements to cooperate on disaster relief, search- and-rescue and peacekeeping, Vinh said.

“Improving relations between Vietnam and the United States over the past years did not have the TPP,” Vinh said.

Vietnam, other countries in the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations(ASEAN) and U.S. allies such as Australia, Japan and South Korea, have been at odds with China over the South China Sea. China's construction of islands and military bases there have sparked disputes with many of those nations in the region.

Vietnam, which battled China in 1974 over the Paracel Islands, still disputes Chinese claims to certain territories in the South China Sea.

"We have been working together with countries in the region on how to maintain peace and freedom of navigation," Vinh said.

Territorial disputes should be resolved in negotiations between each country and China, and according to international law, but freedom of navigation is an international issue, Vinh said, implying that U.S. leadership is still needed.

Vinh called on the U.S. to help Vietnam connect through cultural and commercial exchanges with U.S. allies in the east, such as Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand. Vietnam also seeks the assistance of the U.S. and its allies to improve its capacity for economic development and security, he said.

“We’ve been moving our relationship from foes to friends and now to full partnership” with the United States, Vinh said.

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## Viet

On a diplomatic mission in Tokyo: Vietnam Deputy PM Trinh meets with Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga. I think the next logical step is establishing a regular joint cabinet meeting with Japan. Similar the move we have agreed with Thailand.

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## Viet

"Tổng công ty Xăng dầu Quân đội" or Mipecorp is responsible for delivery of oil for Vietnam military machine. No figure of oil reserves in oil tanks is available for the public. but according to estimation (CIA factbook 2015), Vietnam crude oil reserves are about 4.4 billion barrels, or 630 million tons (worth $200 billions based on current steep price of $45 a barrel. with crude oil production maintaining an average volume of 340,000 barrels per day. Hope oil price will recover soon, or we find more oil at sea


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## Viet

*Vietnam extends runway for spy flights on South China Sea outpost*
Hanoi builds two large hangars on Spratly Island in contested chain


2 HOURS AGO
by: Demetri Sevastopulo in Washington






Vietnam has quietly extended a runway on Spratly Island to enable the deployment of maritime spy planes as Hanoi bolsters its defences against China in the disputed South China Sea.


Satellite images obtained by the Financial Times show that Vietnam has expanded the runway on Spratly from less than 2,500ft to about 3,300ft. The extension allows the deployment of maritime surveillance aircraft from Spratly for the first time, a move that comes as China builds up its own military facilities on and around nearby islands.

“This is a familiar pattern for Hanoi,” said Gregory Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, which supplied the images, taken during the past 22 months. “Vietnam continues to modernise its military and seek closer security ties with Japan, the US and India in preparation for future Chinese assertiveness in disputed waters.”

The Vietnamese government did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The revelation comes as the US “pivot” to Asia faces severe strain following the election of Rodrigo Duterte, Philippine president, who has burnt bridges with Washington while moving toward rapprochement with China.

American allies in Asia, including Japan and South Korea, are also nervous about the election as US president of Donald Trump, who campaigned on an isolationist foreign policy, has talked about walking away from trade deals and suggested he might downgrade the US role in key alliances.

Mr Trump’s stance on Asia will come into focus on Thursday when he holds talks with Shinzo Abe, Japan’s prime minister, in his first meeting with a foreign leader since becoming president-elect. In September, Japan agreed to supply the Philippines with patrol boats and surveillance aircraft to counter China, while India recently reached a $100m deal to supply fast patrol boats to Vietnam.

The satellite images show that Vietnam is also building two large hangars on Spratly, one of 14 islands that along with more than 100 reefs make up the Spratly chain, which is claimed by China, Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.

In recent years China has reclaimed land across the South China Sea but particularly at three Spratly reefs — Subi, Mischief and Fiery Cross — where it has built runways capable of landing fighter jets, created huge concern in the US as China develops its power projection in the western Pacific.

According to AMTI, China has reclaimed 3,200 acres in the Spratlys since 2013, compared with 120 by Vietnam. While the Vietnamese reclamation and construction pales in comparison, the runway extension will not be welcomed in Washington amid concerns that the move eases pressure on Beijing to halt its activity in the region.

The FT reported this year that China had stepped up construction of runways at Subi and Mischief after Xi Jinping, Chinese president, visited Washington. Speaking in the White House Rose Garden, Mr Xi had said that China would not militarise its artificial islands — a claim that has been roundly panned by analysts. The continuing reclamation also underscored how few tools Washington has to compel China to scale back its activity.

The move by Vietnam to extend the runway at Spratly, one of 10 features where there has been expansion, comes three months after Reuters reported that Hanoi had deployed mobile rocket launchers at bases in the Spratly chain.

“Vietnam is likely to make use of its improved runway and hangars at Spratly Island to bolster its ability to patrol the Spratlys,” said Mr Poling. “The disparity in military capabilities between China and Vietnam will only grow as the three airbases Beijing has constructed become operational. But Hanoi seems determined to better monitor and, if the reported missile deployments are true, defend its claims.”


the runway is lengthend to 3,300 feet, 4,000 feet.

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## Viet

A rare visit of a royal from a country that once dominated the world oceans: UK Prince William, Duke of Cambridge.
too bad, his wife Kate is not accompanying him. but he is welcomed by the beauty Huyen My 

William is here in Vietnam to join the Third Conference on the Illegal Wildlife Trade. In my opinion, an unnecessary move before his visit: the authority burned in public more than two tons of seized elephant ivory and rhino horns, worth more than $7 million on the black market. I would rather see the seized goods in a museum.

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## Carlosa



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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> View attachment 353302


The runway will be long enough for Su-30 fighter aircraft to take off and land with brake parachute. Interesting, it is as if my post was read. If one remembers I once proposed lengthening the runway, stationing two Su-30 bombers on the island, protected by hardened shelters and hangars. Now thing is coming to reality. We will respond quicker to any provocation.

I think we will start with basing surveillance and transport aircraft. combat aircraft will join later. Also that would not be bad, either if we build runways on other islands and last but not least deep sea ports for our warships and attack submarines

More important than naked firepower is the statement and determination that are made.

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## Viet

Havanna November 16. Vietnam president Quang on a overseas trip, visiting an old socialist friend since the early days of the Cold War. Cuba is probably the most visited countries by Vietnam in American hemisphere. Socialist brotherhood 

There is a difference in path Vietnam and Cuba undertake towards glorious socialism, while the first allows private enterprises in 1986, the latter still discusses allow or not allow. One cuban newspaper asks an interesting question why not, comparing both countries economic progress. An average cuban worker earns 15-20 dollars a month, while in Vietnam 200-300 dollars. Cuba experts once assisted Vietnamese in planting coffee. While Vietnam now is the second largest coffee exporter of the world in volumesq and aims to overtake Brazil, Cuba imports coffee for domestic consumption. While Vietnam received $290 billions in FDI since market liberalization, Cuba registers little money from the outside. I guess in 20 years when we achieve a developed status, the government of Cuba still discusses how to advance socialist ideals without giving freedom to enterprises. Actually that is not what makes me worry. Their country their problems. We have our problems. I wish we learn the German way how to add more value to coffee beans.

The Germans don't grow a single coffee tree, but are one of the largest green and roasted coffee exporters in the world.





_



_

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## Viet

An interesting news of the day. The US ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius reveals at the occasion of starting a new USAID $10 millions program for Vietnam: the newfound friend Vietnam is a priority country under the US Presidential Executive Order of Barack Obama 

Let's see whether the status remains under the new US administration Donald Trump.


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## Viet

after a stop in Cuba, and more important on the trip, the plane of President Quang and his spouse touch down Lima military airport, Peru for APEC 2016 summit. both Vietnam and Peru are ones of the 12 members of TPP, if the pact becomes reality. well, actually it looks a dead end. Barack Obama attends the major event, too. it is expected he will try to explain the situation, if the pact has any chance. Anyway Vietnam will host APEC 2017 in Da Nang city. so we will greet Donald Trump next year in the city


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## AViet

Thank Viet, by why Vietnam Defence forum. It should be on VN Economy forum.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Thank Viet, by why Vietnam Defence forum. It should be on VN Economy forum.


Actually you are right. The theme fits more to economy but I am too lazy to update both military and economy threads. Although I think we can't hardly separate both as they are interacting in one or other way. Maybe we should ask mods here to merge both to "Vietnam forum". What do you think?

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## Viet

Two small missile boats are seen on the left

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## Viet

in the series of sea ports: a new $311 million sea port will be built in Quang Ninh. actually reclaiming land and build the entire infrastructure on it. the project will create approximately 110,000 jobs for locals. Pls don´t ask me where surface warships can dock

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## Viet

Meeting at the APEC summit (Peru). shaking hand and smiling with an incoming superpower 
Putting aside the typicial rhetorics, this one is interessting: China wants production capacity cooperation with Vietnam.





Also meeting with Putin. there are some topics to be discussed on economy, military on the table. besides, Quang met with Barack Obama. he probably sends him farewell wishes.

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## Viet

*Japan, Vietnam reaffirm pledge to coordinate in South China Sea row with China*
Kyodo
Online: Nov 21, 2016








LIMA – Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang have affirmed their commitment to peacefully resolving disputes in the South China Sea in line with international law, as Japan prepares to provide Hanoi with patrol ships to strengthen its maritime law enforcement capabilities.

Meeting on the sidelines of the Pacific Rim summit in Lima, Abe and Tran agreed to promote their domestic procedures to implement the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a 12-nation free trade agreement, according to Japan’s Foreign Ministry.

Preparations are underway to provide the *patrols ships* promised to Vietnam in September, Abe told Quang. Vietnam is among several countries embroiled in territorial disputes with Beijing in the South China Sea.

Abe promised Japan’s full support to Vietnam for its hosting of next year’s summit of the 21-member Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum. Quang meanwhile praised a planned visit to Vietnam next spring by Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko.

In separate talks, Abe and U.S. President Barack Obama agreed to continue close bilateral coordination in promoting the TPP and handling other international issues, the ministry said. Abe and Obama, who will leave office in January, hailed each other’s leadership in strengthening the Japan-U.S. alliance for the peace and prosperity of the Asia-Pacific region.

In a meeting with James Soong, chairman of Taiwan’s People First Party, Abe said he hopes Beijing and Taipei will promote peaceful relations through dialogue, and that stable cross-strait ties will contribute to peace and prosperity in East Asia, according to the ministry.

Abe and Soong agreed to continue developing relations between Japan and Taiwan under the administration of President Tsai Ing-wen launched in May. Tsai’s Democratic Progressive Party has traditionally been skeptical of closer ties with China.

Abe held separate talks with Quang, Obama and Soong on the fringes of the two-day APEC summit that ended Sunday in the Peruvian capital. Soong attended the summit as Tsai’s proxy.

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## terranMarine

Carlosa said:


> Putin is not going to reduce dependence on China because you say so? We'll see, but based on what appears that is going to happen and considering that the Russians don't fully trust China, I'd say that they will.
> 
> TPP is dead when is officially pronounced dead; as you said, Trump is softening his tone.
> 
> All the early signs indicate that as much as he wants to negotiate a grand bargain with China, he will not compromise on the security issues with China including SCS and unlike Obama that just talks, this guy is serious and he vowed to add a lot of military muscle. The chinese free ride with USA is about to be over.








*Trump: US to quit TPP trade deal on first day in office*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38059623

As for Russia, don't worry you will see whether we are right or wrong about Russia increasing even more cooperation or not. 

Yup, keep betting on Trump playing the Asian Pivot game. Again we shall see

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## xiao qi

terranMarine said:


> *Trump: US to quit TPP trade deal on first day in office*
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38059623
> 
> As for Russia, don't worry you will see whether we are right or wrong about Russia increasing even more cooperation or not.
> 
> Yup, keep betting on Trump playing the Asian Pivot game. Again we shall see


You think the Vietnamese care so much and expect from TPP? http://e.vnexpress.net/news/business/vietnam-legislature-confirms-delay-on-tpp-decision-3479798.html We are desperate now


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## Aqsuperman

Well i think that somebody here tend to drawn out VN course of actions by himself and win imaginary arguments while completely clueless about how we actually care :v I think that after 100 years or so, many people of our northern neighbor still act the same as Ah Q by Lu Xun. 

Truck mounted weapons of the VPA.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> The runway will be long enough for Su-30 fighter aircraft to take off and land with brake parachute. Interesting, it is as if my post was read. If one remembers I once proposed lengthening the runway, stationing two Su-30 bombers on the island, protected by hardened shelters and hangars. Now thing is coming to reality. We will respond quicker to any provocation.


Why would we deploy Su-30 in the Spratly Islands then? In time of war, these islands will be obliterated in dozens of minutes, hours top, no matter they're under Chinese or Vietnamese control.

The extension of Spratly runway is likely to accommodate medium transport like C-295M, for a better logistic support. Currently we have only DHC-6, Mi-17 and Super Puma for light cargo and personnel, while heavier bulk cargos have to be transported by ships.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Why would we deploy Su-30 in the Spratly Islands then? In time of war, these islands will be obliterated in dozens of minutes, hours top, no matter they're under Chinese or Vietnamese control.
> 
> The extension of Spratly runway is likely to accommodate medium transport like C-295M, for a better logistic support. Currently we have only DHC-6, Mi-17 and Super Puma for light cargo and personnel, while heavier bulk cargos have to be transported by ships.



Yes, totally nonsense to deploy fighter jets there, particularly during war time.
During peace time, it might be ok to deploy MPA aircraft temporarily and its always good to have a good runway available in the area just in case of needing to have an emergency landing, etc. The main use of the runway and those large hangars is definitely for transport aircraft.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Why would we deploy Su-30 in the Spratly Islands then? In time of war, these islands will be obliterated in dozens of minutes, hours top, no matter they're under Chinese or Vietnamese control.
> 
> The extension of Spratly runway is likely to accommodate medium transport like C-295M, for a better logistic support. Currently we have only DHC-6, Mi-17 and Super Puma for light cargo and personnel, while heavier bulk cargos have to be transported by ships.


Having combat aircraft in Spratlys is a political posture by military means. By no means I thought of basing fighter jets on islands in war time.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Having combat aircraft in Spratlys is a political posture by military means. By no means I thought of basing fighter jets on islands in war time.


Don't you think that the fielding of EXTRA systems (allegedly) and medium-range SAM (SPYDER for example) would carry the same posture, while keeping our forces in good condition?

We simply don't have enough aircraft and manufacturing capabilities to base some of them there.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Don't you think that the fielding of EXTRA systems (allegedly) and medium-range SAM (SPYDER for example) would carry the same posture, while keeping our forces in good condition?
> 
> We simply don't have enough aircraft and manufacturing capabilities to base some of them there.


Sure, Extra carries a political message. Having Su-30 in Spratlys carries the same intention. It is all about political posture by military means. It is not about preparation for war, but sending out a message. Haven't you remembered you believe there won't be any war in the next 20 years? I remember some Chinese agreed to that. Though It is not because the Chinese suddenly love peace but they think are not strong enough now to attack Vietnam but in 20 years they can. By then when America as Superpower is long buried in cemetery.

The distance between Bien Hoa airbase, where the Su-30 regiment stations, to Spratlys is more than 600 km. Not necessary to base fighter jets permanently in Spratlys, it is sufficient to have them on rotating basis. It will save time, fuel and expand aircraft operating radius. Last but not least, having the jets in the middle of the zone will sabotage any Chinese attempt to establish ADIZ over the South China Sea.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Haven't you remembered you believe there won't be any war in the next 20 years? I remember some Chinese agreed to that. Though It is not because the Chinese suddenly love peace but they think are not strong enough now to attack Vietnam but in 20 years they can. By then when America as Superpower is long buried in cemetery.


I guess I'm the Chinese you refer to? I once said on this thread that there is no possibility for a war between China and Vietnam in the short to medium future. I made the statement because I do believe a peaceful environment is better for China's interests.

So what do you think I should predict for the future between China and Vietnam? I said no war between us in future, and you interpret this as China "fears" of the "mighty" military forces of Vietnam; but if I say China will make an attack on Vietnam, you definitely will tell every one of this thread that "look, this guy holds a bottomless hate towards Vietnam"

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## Aqsuperman

Hey people always have reasons to kill one another for centuries, why it must be different now. Just hope that we all gone by the time it happen. Now let just enjoy comic, movie, foods and have a healthy discussion........at least try to lol.

VPA use of rocket artillery. Good range, short firing time and sh*tload of fire. Just a bit lacking in accuracy though.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> ...


I'll stress it again: We don't have enough aircraft or manufacturing capabilities to base our Su-30MK2V there. Why? Because even though you can deploy them on a rotating basis, the rate of corrosion will be much higher than normal operation, not to mention the extra fuel you need to store there.

China can do that, because they can produce their own J-11 and J-16, which means they can simply repair or even replace any damage aircraft, that is way faster than procuring batches of fighters like us. 

Anyway, here's an unexpected passenger on our Su-30MK2V

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I guess I'm the Chinese you refer to? I once said on this thread that there is no possibility for a war between China and Vietnam in the short to medium future. I made the statement because I do believe a peaceful environment is better for China's interests.
> 
> So what do you think I should predict for the future between China and Vietnam? I said no war between us in future, and you interpret this as China "fears" of the "mighty" military forces of Vietnam; but if I say China will make an attack on Vietnam, you definitely will tell every one of this thread that "look, this guy holds a bottomless hate towards Vietnam"


ha ha ha yes, you are right you are one of the "Chinese" I referred to. but hell no, I never said China "fears" of Vietnam, but implied if attacking Vietnam right now, China would suffer too high own casualties with little chance of success. however given the widening gap of military disparity, you will have overwhelming military power in 20 years. understandably the success rate would be higher. a total sea blockade of Vietnam would be a realistic scenario. like how the US naval fleets blockaded North Vietnam from the sea during the war.

I said with reasons you develop "sometimes" bottomless hatred on Vietnam. though I´m too tired to talk on history, but I give an example. in the all-out war against the Kingdom of Champa, the Cham army invaded Vietnam 10 times. their armies successfully conquered the capital Hanoi 2 times. in our darkest hours, when Vietnam as country and ethnicity was at stake, you did very little to nothing to help Vietnam but encouraged our enemy. some could guess you wished us to end in the gas chambers. anyway as an optimistic person I see a bright future to our nations. see how Germany and Israel have come along. Cheers! 



Silent Knight said:


> I'll stress it again: We don't have enough aircraft or manufacturing capabilities to base our Su-30MK2V there. Why? Because even though you can deploy them on a rotating basis, the rate of corrosion will be much higher than normal operation, not to mention the extra fuel you need to store there.
> 
> China can do that, because they can produce their own J-11 and J-16, which means they can simply repair or even replace any damage aircraft, that is way faster than procuring batches of fighters like us.
> 
> Anyway, here's an unexpected passenger on our Su-30MK2V


ok you have the point. I just expressed my personal opinion. I may be wrong.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> ok you have the point. I just expressed my personal opinion. I may be wrong.


Well, opinions are welcome, I just like to have some debates then 

Given the advancement of coastal-based anti-ship missile systems, I doubt that a total blockage would be enforced in case of war.

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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> Given the advancement of coastal-based anti-ship missile systems, I doubt that a total blockage would be enforced in case of war.


advancement of coastal-based anti-ship missiles? Hmm... only the K300P operated by the 681 brigade could be called as advanced.

This Russian system has a range of 300 km with hi-low trajectory, the figure looks nice. But high trajectory poses almost zero threat to a modern navy fleet. So low-low trajectory is a more likely choice in war time. But in this option, the range down to 120km. Too short.

In addition, the missile launch vehicles could be hidden in caves, so it is a bit challenge for the opponent to detect and destroy the launch vehicles. But the supporting radar systems has no where to hide. For any military forces with strong battlefield sensing capabilities, these radar systems, no matter fixed or truck-mounted, are very nice targets for their ARM missiles, cruise missiles, or short-range ballistic missiles.

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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> advancement of coastal-based anti-ship missiles? Hmm... only the K300P operated by the 681 brigade could be called as advanced.
> 
> This Russian system has a range of 300 km with hi-low trajectory, the figure looks nice. But high trajectory poses almost zero threat to a modern navy fleet. So low-low trajectory is a more likely choice in war time. But in this option, the range down to 120km. Too short.
> 
> In addition, the missile launch vehicles could be hidden in caves, so it is a bit challenge for the opponent to detect and destroy the launch vehicles. But the supporting radar systems has no where to hide. For any military forces with strong battlefield sensing capabilities, these radar systems, no matter fixed or truck-mounted, are very nice targets for their ARM missiles, cruise missiles, or short-range ballistic missiles.



Very true but lets also not forget that there are air defense systems protecting those assets.


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> advancement of coastal-based anti-ship missiles? Hmm... only the K300P operated by the 681 brigade could be called as advanced.
> 
> This Russian system has a range of 300 km with hi-low trajectory, the figure looks nice. But high trajectory poses almost zero threat to a modern navy fleet. So low-low trajectory is a more likely choice in war time. But in this option, the range down to 120km. Too short.
> 
> In addition, the missile launch vehicles could be hidden in caves, so it is a bit challenge for the opponent to detect and destroy the launch vehicles. But the supporting radar systems has no where to hide. For any military forces with strong battlefield sensing capabilities, these radar systems, no matter fixed or truck-mounted, are very nice targets for their ARM missiles, cruise missiles, or short-range ballistic missiles.


Well, even the aging P-15U and P-21 would be better than coastal artillery, right? 

And don't forget the Redut system with P-35B Progress missile. It's currently our longest range ASM with 450-550 km range, of course with high trajectory. Since rumors don't count, I'll leave out the Bal-E and BrahMos. 

It might come down to the tactical usage and doctrine of both side then.


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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> Well, even the aging P-15U and P-21 would be better than coastal artillery, right?


It depends on whom you are fighting with. Coastal artillery is at least immune to electric warfare or the loss of radar stations.



Silent Knight said:


> And don't forget the Redut system with P-35B Progress missile. It's currently our longest range ASM with 450-550 km range, of course with high trajectory. Since rumors don't count, I'll leave out the Bal-E and BrahMos.


you mean the 4K44 systems operated by the 679 brigade? It could be deadly if launch it against Cambodia, but we are certainly NOT talking about a conflict against a small country like Cambodia.

450 to 550 km range is just the figures put on paper! To achieve this range in war time, you at least need to make sure you have the 550km-range radars survived. 

BTW, in the past decade, has Vietnam ever made any full-range, or close to full range test of the 4K44 missiles in any kinds of military drills? Do you have any clue about this?


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> It depends on whom you are fighting with. Coastal artillery is at least immune to electric warfare or the loss of radar stations.
> 
> 
> you mean the 4K44 systems operated by the 679 brigade? It could be deadly if launch it against Cambodia, but we are certainly NOT talking about a conflict against a small country like Cambodia.
> 
> 450 to 550 km range is just the figures put on paper! To achieve this range in war time, you at least need to make sure you have the 550km-range radars survived.
> 
> BTW, in the past decade, has Vietnam ever made any full-range, or close to full range test of the 4K44 missiles in any kinds of military drills? Do you have any clue about this?


For me, coastal artillery is the last resort against an amphibious attack which I believe the Chinese Navy would not attempt in Vietnamese mainland. Our longest-range gun is the M-46 130mm at 25-27 km, or D-44 85mm at 15 km for direct fire. Who would come into the range of those guns if they don't want an amphibious attack and/or shore bombardment?

Certainly we would not use the 4K44 against Cambodia. During war time, we'll need everything we have, meaning these aging systems as well. Since we are not at war and there are many classified information on both sides, the best assumption is made based on paper figures.

As for the actual exercise, unfortunately, I do not have solid evidence or credible document for you. Of course, verbal confirmation doesn't count either, so let's just say that there was no official test fire in recent years.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> It depends on whom you are fighting with. Coastal artillery is at least immune to electric warfare or the loss of radar stations.


you talk as if electronic warfare is invented by China, and something new to Vietnam. in case you haven´t noticed, during the Vietnam war the US armed forces short of nuclear weapons had used all military means in the inventory, from aircraft carriers, submarines, destroyers, strategic bombers including all sorts of combat and transport aircraft, helicopters, several millions of US ground troops having all sort of artilleries, tanks and combat vehicles. of course, the US fighting forces resorted to electronic countermeasures for instance against North Vietnamese missile threats.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> you talk as if electronic warfare is invented by China, and something new to Vietnam. in case you haven´t noticed, during the Vietnam war the US armed forces short of nuclear weapons had used all military means in the inventory, from aircraft carriers, submarines, destroyers, strategic bombers including all sorts of combat and transport aircraft, helicopters, several millions of US ground troops having all sort of artilleries, tanks and combat vehicles. of course, the US fighting forces resorted to electronic countermeasures for instance against North Vietnamese missile threats.



When can you understand that the glory in the past is NEVER the guarantee of the victory in the future. Want to win the EW war in the future? Good, ask your scientists to do more relevant research. Brag the past victory has no real meaning at all.

Anyway, I fully respect the Vietnam soldiers that sacrificed in the Vietnam war. Many Chinese soldiers were sacrificed for this as well.

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## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> Many Chinese soldiers were sacrificed for this as well.



what ? Chinese logistic troops built roads from China to Vietnam in Vietnam war, then, on such roads Chinese has attacked us in Sino-Vietnam war 1979.

. In fact chinese logistic troops has begun withdrawal from Vietnam from 1968. China is allied with USA in Vietnam war from 1972.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> When can you understand that the glory in the past is NEVER the guarantee of the victory in the future. Want to win the EW war in the future? Good, ask your scientists to do more relevant research. Brag the past victory has no real meaning at all.
> 
> Anyway, I fully respect the Vietnam soldiers that sacrificed in the Vietnam war. Many Chinese soldiers were sacrificed for this as well.


it is not bragging when talking of the past if it hints to the future. Thailand once sent envoy to Vietnam to surrender without we fired a single shot on them (after they heard we armed our armies with gunpowder weapons). go ask the Thai if they are keen for any confrontation today? despite all fancy weapons they receive, it´s army will run away faster we can catch them. no, Vietnam military strength lies not on military hardware. yes, VN appreciated your assistance, and the picture of China would remain bright if you did not turn weapons against Vietnam.

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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> When can you understand that the glory in the past is NEVER the guarantee of the victory in the future. Want to win the EW war in the future? Good, ask your scientists to do more relevant research. Brag the past victory has no real meaning at all.
> 
> Anyway, I fully respect the Vietnam soldiers that sacrificed in the Vietnam war. Many Chinese soldiers were sacrificed for this as well.


Well, that's why EW received huge investment from the MoD, besides the Air Force and Navy. We learned from the past, not living in it.

About the Chinese soldiers, we do have a cemetery for them in the North. Many was killed during the construction of China-Vietnam logistic roads. Sadly, these roads also served as markers and hidden caches of weapons for future Sino-Vietnam war.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Well, that's why EW received huge investment from the MoD, besides the Air Force and Navy. We learned from the past, not living in it.
> 
> About the Chinese soldiers, we do have a cemetery for them in the North. Many was killed during the construction of China-Vietnam logistic roads. Sadly, these roads also served as markers and hidden caches of weapons for future Sino-Vietnam war.



There is an expression in English: "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". It refers to the war with Troy where the Greek army withdrew and left the famous Troyan horse as a gift, the gigantic wooden horse had greek soldiers hiding inside and later that night, those soldiers came out from the horse, opened the city gates and the Greek army entered the city and destroyed it.

This expression can be applied to China's help in the past "Beware of Chinese bearing gifts (the roads that they built)".

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## Silent Knight

Words has it that some of the tombs of Chinese soldiers were actually weapons cache. They just dug these up during the invasion.

I'm not sure if it's true of myth.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> There is an expression in English: "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". It refers to the war with Troy where the Greek army withdrew and left the famous Troyan horse as a gift, the gigantic wooden horse had greek soldiers hiding inside and later that night, those soldiers came out from the horse, opened the city gates and the Greek army entered the city and destroyed it.
> 
> This expression can be applied to China's help in the past "Beware of chinese bearing gifts (the roads that they built)".


In the case of China: the panda

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## Viet

Maybe the last word. As expected the parliament approves government intention of construction stop of nuclear power plants because of financial constraints. But that may be unexpected for someone: the government declares Russia and Japan will be the first countries that will build nuclear plants should the government decide to have them in the future.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201611221047709141-vietnam-program-nuclear-russia/

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## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> what ? Chinese logistic troops built roads from China to Vietnam in Vietnam war, then, on such roads Chinese has attacked us in Sino-Vietnam war 1979.
> 
> . In fact chinese logistic troops has begun withdrawal from Vietnam from 1968. China is allied with USA in Vietnam war from 1972.



I don't want to talk too much about history on this thread. This very likely to ignite another mini scale China-Vietnam war on PDF, which I feel very tired of. 

There are about 1,500 Chinese soldiers sacrificed in Vietnam during the VN wars fighting against France and US. Besides roads, they also help Vietnam people and army to build fortifications, airports, ports, communication lines, oil pipelines, etc. Many of them belong to AA artillery troop (China sent 63 regiments of AA gun troops to assist Vietnam), and they were killed by the US planes; some of them come to Vietnam to help Vietnam sweep the sea mines in the key harbors, and killed by the mines. 

They were dead at their best ages, for the friendship between the two countries! They should NEVER be blamed for anything happened after their death. I believe they deserve the full respect from the Vietnam people, no matter you like, or dislike the diplomatic relationship between us today.

Chinese ambassador to sweep the tombs of the Chinese soldiers, with the accompany of the Vietnam officials.

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## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> I don't want to talk too much about history on this thread. This very likely to ignite another mini scale China-Vietnam war on PDF, which I feel very tired of.
> 
> There are about 1,500 Chinese soldiers sacrificed in Vietnam during the VN wars fighting against France and US. Besides roads, they also help Vietnam people and army to build fortifications, airports, ports, communication lines, oil pipelines, etc. Many of them belong to AA artillery troop (China sent 63 regiments of AA gun troops to assist Vietnam), and they were killed by the US planes; some of them come to Vietnam to help Vietnam sweep the sea mines in the key harbors, and killed by the mines.
> 
> They were dead at their best ages, for the friendship between the two countries! They should NEVER be blamed for anything happened after their death. I believe they deserve the full respect from the Vietnam people, no matter you like, or dislike the diplomatic relationship between us today.
> 
> Chinese ambassador to sweep the tombs of the Chinese soldiers, with the accompany of the Vietnam officials.
> View attachment 355387
> View attachment 355388



on this forum our countrymen have been posted comments so much about such "help" of China in Vietnam war, and many Chinese members said about such called " proxy war" of China to counter USA in the past.

I'm boring too to answer you again and again such idiot calculations of Chinese policy smugglers about this 'help' and 'proxy war" of China in cold war, the biggest traitor is China PRC when China had negotiated in back of us with USA from 1968-1972 when China had changed your side from Socialist pack to neo-imprealism of west was headed by USA. This logistic troops had been withdrawal totally from Vietnam in 1968 when Vietnam war is going on brutally. This is betrayal tactic of China.

Note that in time of 1948-1949, based on request of CPC, VPA army soldiers had joined with PLA in many military operation in Guangxi in China, VPA had helped China PLA too, for liberate Guangxi from KMT army.

Vietnamese soldiers were also sacrtified their life for liberate China from KMT,




Here is in Xuikou 水口 in China.





Here is in Dongheng in China. 龙州水口中越烈士陵园

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## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> Vietnamese soldiers were also sacrtified their life for liberate China from KMT,


I appreciate the assistance from Vietnam in our liberation war. Fully. But could you pls show the same respect to our soldiers that sacrificed in Vietnam during the wars against France and US?? These soldiers should NEVER be blamed for anything happened after their death.



Viet said:


> VN appreciated your assistance


thanks.


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## xiao qi

GS Zhou said:


> I appreciate the assistance from Vietnam in our liberation war. Fully. But could you pls show the same respect to our soldiers that sacrificed in Vietnam during the wars against France and US?? These soldiers should NEVER be blamed for anything happened after their death.
> 
> 
> thanks.

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## Aqsuperman

Daily life in VPA Armored Corp.


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## Viet

US company Metal Shark at the Franklin facility says the first set of 18 Defiant class patrol vessels for Vietnam Coast Guard is complete. Little unclear how many aluminum boats in total will be built, some say 30 pieces Metal Shark Defiant in both variants 45 feet and 75 feet.

https://www.6sqft.com/shipbuilding-...yor-de-blasios-summer-ferry-service-deadline/


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## Viet

for Vietnam coast guard


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## Viet

comparing to other countries with similar size, population and security threat in the region, I would say Vietnam defence budget is very modest if not too little. look, despite military backing from America, Japan spends $50b a year. ok, the country faces a triple threats from Russia, China and North Korea, we only one, which is China in the northern and in the east threaters. I would say Cambodia and Thailand potential threats on the western front can be ignored, unless they get huge fancy hardware from China. Assuming we continue sticking to no-military alliance, we need at least 1/10 of China´s army budget to effectively defend Vietnam territory. understandbly, it can´t be achieved overnight. it will be a long run. right now, I assume some foreigners will laugh when seeing our equippments, failing to deter potential aggressor.

some pictures from the army website


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## Nike

China got more than 200 billion US dollar for their military annualy, 1/10 is at least 20 billion US dollar meanwhile how much annual budget of Vietnam gov. budget? is around 32,5 billion US dollar, it's sound hillarious or near suicide if you want to get 20 billion US dollar for military alone


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> China got more than 200 billion US dollar for their military annualy, 1/10 is at least 20 billion US dollar meanwhile how much annual budget of Vietnam gov. budget? is around 32,5 billion US dollar, it's sound hillarious or near suicide if you want to get 20 billion US dollar for military alone


impossible now, hence I said our army is underfunded given the security threat we face.


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## Silent Knight

madokafc said:


> China got more than 200 billion US dollar for their military annualy, 1/10 is at least 20 billion US dollar meanwhile how much annual budget of Vietnam gov. budget? is around 32,5 billion US dollar, it's sound hillarious or near suicide if *you want to get 20 billion US dollar for military alone*


Who said such insane thing?


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## GS Zhou

Silent Knight said:


> Who said such insane thing?


your countryman viet


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## cochine

GS Zhou said:


> I appreciate the assistance from Vietnam in our liberation war. Fully. But could you pls show the same respect to our soldiers that sacrificed in Vietnam during the wars against France and US?? These soldiers should NEVER be blamed for anything happened after their death.
> 
> 
> thanks.



North VN govt had honored all Chinese logistic soldiers who had built the roads to Vietnam in 1969, not only for whom who had lost their life in road construction works in Vietnam. There was included Chinese PLA officier, his name is *Ming Xiangwen* , after his duty was finished in Vietnam and turned back to China.

This is medal certificate for comrade Ming Xiangwen.






10 year later, in Sino-Vietnam war 1979, comrade *Ming Xiangwen* invaded in to Vietnam as leader òf Chinese invasion PLA troop, who had destoyed villages and cities in north border area of Vietnam.

Comrade Ming Xiangwen is again in Vietnam.

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## GS Zhou

kecho said:


> North VN govt had honored all Chinese logistic soldiers who had built the roads to Vietnam in 1969, not only for whom who had lost their life in road construction works in Vietnam. There was included Chinese PLA officier, his name is *Ming Xiangwen* , after his duty was finished in Vietnam and turned back to China.
> 
> This is medal certificate for comrade Ming Xiangwen.
> 
> 
> 10 year later, in Sino-Vietnam war 1979, comrade *Ming Xiangwen* invaded in to Vietnam as leader òf Chinese invasion PLA troop, who had destoyed villages and cities in north border area of Vietnam.
> 
> Comrade Ming Xiangwen is again in Vietnam.



Thanks for sharing this information with me.

But what is it to do with my original post? I only made two points:
1. I respect the VN soldiers sacrificed for the VN war;
2. Many Chinese soldiers were sacrificed for this war as well.

Anything wrong/inappropriate for these two points?





I know it is very hard for us to reach alignment on history. And I feel tired of it. The last thing I want to say for this history argument is: The Chinese soldiers that sacrificed for the Vietnam war should NEVER be blamed for anything happened AFTER their death.

I believe this is a fair comment.

Enjoy the Friday and the weekend.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



xiao qi said:


>


Thanks for sharing the two pictures with me. And I'm very happy to see the facility is maintained well. Thanks!

I find your language is a bit similar to Chinese. Although I know nothing about Vietnam language, but I guess Trung Quoc refers to Zhong Guo/China/中国, and Liet Sy refers to Lie Shi/Martyr/烈士? Am I right? Thanks in advance.

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## xiao qi

GS Zhou said:


> Thanks for sharing this information with me.
> 
> But what is it to do with my original post? I only made two points:
> 1. I respect the VN soldiers sacrificed for the VN war;
> 2. Many Chinese soldiers were sacrificed for this war as well.
> 
> Anything wrong/inappropriate for these two points?
> View attachment 355553
> 
> 
> I know it is very hard for us to reach alignment on history. And I feel tired of it. The last thing I want to say for this history argument is: The Chinese soldiers that sacrificed for the Vietnam war should NEVER be blamed for anything happened AFTER their death.
> 
> I believe this is a fair comment.
> 
> Enjoy the Friday and the weekend.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Thanks for sharing the two pictures with me. And I'm very happy to see the facility is maintained well. Thanks!
> 
> I find your language is a bit similar to Chinese. Although I know nothing about Vietnam language, but I guess Trung Quoc refers to Zhong Guo/China/中国, and Liet Sy refers to Lie Shi/Martyr/烈士? Am I right? Thanks in advance.


yes, you are right, In Vietnamese we call it as " Hán Việt" words, " Chinese-Vietnamese" words. Nghĩa trang liệt sỹ người Trung Quốc( yi chang lie shi zhong guo ren ). It is the reason why did vietnamese learn Chinese better than english. When im a child, i even understand some words in Chinese film although i dont know any Chinese language.

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## GS Zhou

xiao qi said:


> yes, you are right, In Vietnamese we call it as " Hán Việt" words, " Chinese-Vietnamese" words. Nghĩa trang liệt sỹ người Trung Quốc( yi chang lie shi zhong guo ren ). It is the reason why did vietnamese learn chinese better than english. When im a child, i even understand some words in chinese film although i dont know any chinese language.


thanks for the response! very happy to know that we share so many commonalities between us. Great!

happy friday and have a nice weekend!


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## xiao qi

GS Zhou said:


> thanks for the response! very happy to know that we share so many commonalities between us. Great!
> 
> happy friday and have a nice weekend!


 Good luck to you and your family too, I always love to read your comments ,I know you want to avoid the quarrel with our companion, The life is short and doesn't need to make nonsense things. Vietnamese and Chinese has complicated relation, it makes me remember to two countries in Chinese history. Zhao and Qin, Zhao people hates Qin people so much after Changping battle. Now all of them calls themselves as Chinese .

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> your countryman viet


how about a quiz: 

the US as we know it provides protection to its military allies in Asia: Japan, South Korea and Philippines. what do you think how much worth in dollar terms is the US protection? or one can ask, how much will the military budgets of afromentioned countries have to raise to compensate the losses if Donald Trump withdraws the US armies out of Asia?


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> I know it is very hard for us to reach alignment on history. And I feel tired of it. The last thing I want to say for this history argument is: The Chinese soldiers that sacrificed for the Vietnam war should NEVER be blamed for anything happened AFTER their death.


Yup, I agree. Don't blame the martyrs, blame the ones that exploited their deaths instead. 



GS Zhou said:


> thanks for the response! very happy to know that we share so many commonalities between us. Great!
> 
> happy friday and have a nice weekend!


Same cultural root, similar evolution path, along with some cultural sharing thingy in the past. It's easy to understand 



GS Zhou said:


> your countryman viet


Lol, I'd be insanely happy if we got somewhere around 4-5 billion.


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## Aqsuperman

Specialized Scout Trooper in training.

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## Viet

*Person*


Donald Trump, soon to be the commander in chief of the most powerful army the world has ever seen. but when he was young, nobody can´t blame he was not clever. he successfully managed avoided to be sent as soldier to Vietnam. not only one time, but five times. one of the reasons: one of his feet hurt him, although he continued playing sport, and later did not remember what foot hurt him 









Tribute to one of the most impressive persons of the last century. Fidel Castro dies, aged 90. 10 days before he passed away, Vietnam president and his spouse paid a courtesy visit, presententing a picture when he was young revolution eader. Fidel Castro once offered to send cuban soldiers to fight on North Vietnamese side. he also was the one, that brought the world to the brink of nuclear war during the Cuban crisis.

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## GS Zhou

xiao qi said:


> Good luck to you and your family too, I always love to read your comments ,I know you want to avoid the quarrel with our companion, The life is short and doesn't need to make nonsense things. Vietnamese and Chinese has complicated relation, it makes me remember to two countries in Chinese history. Zhao and Qin, Zhao people hates Qin people so much after Changping battle. Now all of them calls themselves as Chinese .


So happy to hear that I now have a Vietnam fan! Super!!

Yes, I hate to spend time on meaningless quarrel. I believe we all come to PDF for knowledge and fresh information, not for endless quarrel. 

Your familarity of the Chinese history makes me surprised. You even mentioned the Changping battle in ~2,000years ago. Even some young Chinese don't know where is Changping and what is Changping battle!!


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> how about a quiz:
> 
> the US as we know it provides protection to its military allies in Asia: Japan, South Korea and Philippines. what do you think how much worth in dollar terms is the US protection? or one can ask, how much will the military budgets of afromentioned countries have to raise to compensate the losses if Donald Trump withdraws the US armies out of Asia?


since you ask for a quiz, then lets do a quiz.

Vietnam's military spending today is about 2% of China's spending on military. So if you want to achieve 10% of China, your military spending needs to boost to 5x of the size today. Assume the military spending vs. GDP ratio remains unchanged, that means your GDP needs to increaase to 5x of the size today. Now lets assume a 7% GDP growth rate for Vietnam, 1.07^24 = 5.07, i.e. Vietnam needs *24 years* to make its military spending equivalent to 10% of China's spending TODAY.

China is also growing during the same period. Assume a 5% GDP growth rate of China, and China's military spending vs. GDP ratio also remains unchanged. 1.05^24 = 3.23. I.e. China's military spending at that time will be 3x of its amount today! That means, after 24 years of rapid economy development, *Vietnam successfully grows its military spending from 2% of China in 2015 to 3% of China in 2039. *Congratulations!

BTW, you can argue Vietnam has the potential to enhance its military spending rate. *Vietnam today spends 2.3% of the GDP on military*, looks like plenty of room for further enhancement. Yes, that's a possible choice. But when you consider this option, pls don't forget *China only spends 1.9% of its GDP on military*.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam military mobilizes 180,000 personnel, aircraft, ships to cope with storm Tokage*

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/38242...nnel-aircraft-ships-to-cope-with-storm-tokage

TUOI TRE NEWS





The path of storm Tokage

*The Vietnamese military has put nearly 180,000 people, aircraft, ships and other equipment on standby to cope with the influences of a storm forecast to cause rough seas, flood, and land subsidence this week.*

About 179,276 soldiers and paramilitary men are now ready to help local governments and residents along the coast to cope with storm Tokage brewing in the East Vietnam Sea.

The military has mobilized 16 ships, 46 boats, five aircraft, 686 cars of multiple types, 33 specialized vehicles, over 1,600 tarpaulin house sets, 30,000 life jackets, and other equipment for any rescue missions.

As of Sunday afternoon, the defense ministry had ordered border soldiers along the coast from Quang Binh Province to Ba Ria-Vung Tau Province to coordinate with local governments and residents to inform 58,000 ships and 380,000 employees of the developments and path of the storm.

Almost 1,200 ships and 10,000 employees are operating in the middle and north of the East Vietnam Sea, including Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Spratly) archipelago. Others are fishing or anchoring along the coast.

Storm Tokage is forecast to weaken to a tropical low-pressure system, causing rough seas in the northern part of the East Vietnam Sea, including Hoang Sa, on Tuesday night, weather forecasters said.

At 7:00 pm on Sunday, the storm was striking an area 650km east of Hoang Sa, packing winds of 75-100km per hour.

The storm will move west-southwestward at 10-15km an hour in the next 24 hours, brewing 380km east of Hoang Sa at 7:00 pm on Monday night. Winds of up to 60-75km per hour are predicted near the storm’s eye.

In the following 24-48 hours, the Tokage will head west-southwestward at 15-20km per hour before weakening to a tropical low-pressure area.

At 7:00 pm on Tuesday night, the center of the low-pressure system will be 260km south of Hoang Sa, carrying winds of up to 40km per hour.

The northern part of the East Vietnam Sea, including Hoang Sa, will be hit by strong winds, rough seas and high waves due to the tropical low-pressure system.

The region from Da Nang City to Khanh Hoa will experience heavy rain from Wednesday to Friday, possibly accompanied by flash floods and land subsidence.

Later, rain will strike the area from Nghe An Province to Thua Thien Hue Province.

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## Silent Knight

Some Chinese sites outright stole my footage of a wasp in VPAF Su-30 cockpit.






http://mil.sohu.com/20161125/n474123269_1.shtml
http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2016-11-25/doc-ifxyawxa2718634.shtml

Would our friend @GS Zhou care to give them some feedback if possible?


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## Viet

this news will bring smile to our people, but probably disappoints some 

for the first time ever, a 110kV power 24.5 km cross-sea transmission line is constructed bringing electricity to a remote island: Lai Son island in the gulf of Thailand. next logical steps will be bringing as many island as possible into national grid, although I believe our islands in Spratlys are too far away. all in all, Vietnam installed power generation capacity is expected to surpass of Indonesia (50 GW) in 2-3 years.

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## Nike

in your dreams....


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> in your dreams....


Vietnam will have about 70 GW installed power capacity by 2020. what is yours in 4 years?


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## Nike

Viet said:


> Vietnam will have about 70 GW installed power capacity by 2020. what is yours in 4 years?



85 in 2018 and doubling that in 2024


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> 85 in 2018 and doubling that in 2024


Do you any source to back your claim?

Indonesia installed power generation capacity right now is 50 GW, but some other say only estimated 45 GW. That means we will surpass your capacity by this year. Your government struggles to add the capacity by a 35 GW program, with the aim to increase to 90 GW by 2022. Anyway whatever the case, I think Indonesia as largest country in ASEAN, you are the first benchmark for us to take  we still have a long way to go.



Silent Knight said:


> Some Chinese sites outright stole my footage of a wasp in VPAF Su-30 cockpit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://mil.sohu.com/20161125/n474123269_1.shtml
> http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2016-11-25/doc-ifxyawxa2718634.shtml
> 
> Would our friend @GS Zhou care to give them some feedback if possible?


You sound a bit disappointed. I believe it is not necessary bad if your picture is posted in other places as long as credit is given.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> You sound a bit disappointed. I believe it is not necessary bad if your picture is posted in other places as long as credit is given.


"Some Chinese sites outright *stole *my footage"

Meaning they took it and erased our watermark, you can see the blurry part in the middle. I have no problem with people take our footage and give credit properly.


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## Aqsuperman

I guess Comcom attract lots of interest from our neighbor :v 

Coastal training season is around the corner. 






ACCULAR missiles rack, deployed on truck 






Type 63 tank column. Dont have any new parts since 1979 but still rolling. 






Close view of them.






12.7mm recoil while firing.

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## Viet

*Ahead of Vietnam defence minister's visit, India allows its top envoy to visit under-construction aircraft carrier*

India is upgrading its defence ties with Vietnam, even as the country looks at India to augment its naval force.

Aditya Bhat
 November 28, 2016 19:04 IST







India and Vietnam are looking to closer defence partnerships. In Picture: Vietnamese Ambassador in India visited the under construction IAC.Twitter/indiannavy


Even as China continues to encircle India in the name of economic initiatives like the China–Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), One Belt One Road (OBOR) and other projects, India is looking to counter these moves. Thankfully, India has found a reliable friend in Vietnam which like India shares its enmity with the powerful China. And as the ancient proverb goes, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" functions well for both, India and Vietnam.

India will soon be rolling out red carpet welcome for Vietnam's defence minister Ngo Xuan Lich on December 3. This visit is important even as India and Vietnam deepen their military co-operation which has already been upgraded to that of strategic partnership.


RELATED

*India offers $500 million worth credit line to Vietnam for defence cooperation*
*India to build satellite tracking station in Vietnam that offers eye on China*


Ahead of Lich's visit, Vietnam's top envoy in India, Ton Sinh Thanh, Vietnam's ambassador in India interacted with Indian Navy officials in Kochi. A tweet from the official account of Indian Navy revealed Thanh's visit to the under-construction Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC). The IAC is being constructed by the Cochin Shipyard Limited.

This picture reveals that India and Vietnam have a high level of trust between them and* there could be a possibility of Vietnam opting for India-made aircraft carrier sometime in the future*. But more importantly, Vietnam is interested to take the help of India to better its defence industry.

India has been training Vietnamese submariners to operate the six newly purchased Kilo submarines from Russia. India already uses several Kilo submarines. Vietnam is looking to India to train its pilots for the recently-acquired 36 Su-30MK2 fighter jets from Russia, something in which India has expertise, after Russia, as it operates a large fleet of Su-30MKIs, an Indian variant.

"Vietnam would be seeking replication of the success of cooperation between the two navies with the Army and Air Force as well. We would definitely like to hear them as they are our strategic partners," said officials from the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) to the New Indian Express.

The proposal to train pilots has not taken off due to financial limitations. Nevertheless, India announced two new credit lines for defence purchases - $100 million and $500 million. In June, Indian ship builders, Larsen & Toubro (L&T) were handed over the bid document to build Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) for Vietnam. There have been reports that suggest the possibility of Vietnam buying Indo-Russian supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos to guard its 3,444km coastline from the rising Chinese aggression in South China Sea.

Under the India Technical and Economic Cooperation programme, India has allotted 50 slots to personnel from Vietnam to train in India.

While India had to lose to China in land war, Vietnam has never lost against them. Vietnam is looking to develop a stronger naval force and develop its defence industry. Vietnam has offered India five oil and gas blocks in the South China Sea to India for exploration, which does not go well with the leadership in Beijing.

India has intensified its interactions and is partnering with South East Asian countries as part of its Act Asia Policy, changed from the earlier Look East Policy. Vietnam is said to be New Delhi's crucial link to the region and beyond.

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## Carlosa

*Is Vietnam Reigniting a Fire in the South China Sea?*
Hanoi is starting to feel more and more isolated as its regional neighbors reconcile with China.

By Nguyen Quoc-Thanh
November 29, 2016

http://thediplomat.com/2016/11/is-vietnam-reigniting-a-fire-in-the-south-china-sea/

With Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte’s decision to reset ties with China, and Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak’s decision to put his country in the Chinese orbit, the situation all around Vietnam is evolving very rapidly. China also signed agreements for the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road with Cambodia in mid-October, not to mention their joint military exercise scheduled for December. Together, these rapprochements are seen by the Vietnamese as coming at the expense of their country, which is now “isolated” by land and sea.

Things have gotten worse and worse for Hanoi only five months after The Hague international tribunal’s verdict; the latest developments in the South China Sea (SCS) have shifted in Beijing’s favor. One by one, Vietnam’s neighbors have looked toward China and now seek conciliation. The legacy of U.S. President Barack Obama’s “pivot to Asia” seems distant, especially since President-elect Donald Trump has declared his intention to cut back the U.S. role as “world policeman.” At this time, no one can predict anything about Washington’s future role in Asia. Trump criticized Obama’s Asia policy during his campaign and now, Asian leaders are still waiting to see the U.S roadmap for the region under the next president. Will Trump lead America to an isolationist foreign policy? A year ago, Harry Kazianis imagined the consequences for U.S allies if America walked away from Asia. This scenario seems now potentially realistic.

In this context, it seems that Vietnam prefers to anticipate and plan to protect itself, including militarily. But by extending an airplane runway and building hangars for housing combat aircraft in the Spratly Islands, Vietnam has raised tensions. In August, the country already deployed rocket launchers to its bases in the SCS. Is such an offensive stance justifiable?

In the past years, Vietnam has notably increased its military spending. The trauma caused by the battle of the Paracel Islands in 1974, when ships of the People’s Republic of China sunk those of the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam), runs deep. The Vietnamese requested assistance from the U.S Seventh Fleet but their request was denied. As Vietnam doesn’t want to repeat the experience of relying on foreign help that may not come, the country has forged a defensive army for deterrence. For months, Hanoi has waited for a strong signal from Washington, especially since the lifting of arms embargo. But with the end of Obama’s presidency and, most likely, the end of his “pivot to Asia policy,” the future is uncertain for Vietnam, even if the partnership between U.S and Vietnam remains strong.

Under a Trump presidency, U.S. withdrawal from Asia is an unlikely but possible scenario. The European Union could have helped to disentangle regional conflicts in Washington’s stead, but European unity has been wracked since the Brexit – not to mention domestic factors such as the coming French presidential election and the next German federal election. In any case, Europe is busy dealing with tension over migrants and the Syrian civil war issue.

Help will not come from the outside and all indications are that the Vietnamese are now on their own. The solution could have been ASEAN unity but it has shattered lately, most recently during the 49th ASEAN Foreign Ministers meeting. Together, these factors contribute to increase Vietnam’s sense of insecurity. “We must react now or later would be too late,” said an officer of Vietnam People’s Navy.

The 1974 battle resulted in Chinese control of the entire Paracel Islands group and Vietnam clearly does not want history to repeat itself in the Spratly archipelago. A list of national possessions in the Spratly archipelago has been published on former Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung’s website. It is a way of showing that Vietnam is clearly determined to defend its claims.

No country in Southeast Asia knows China as well as Vietnam, which shares both maritime and land frontiers with this giant neighbor. China rising power in Asia is a worrying issue for Hanoi, and not even bilateral dialogues with Beijing have succeeded in reassuring the Vietnamese. For 2015, Vietnam’s defense budget was $5 billion and it may rise again as long as the Vietnamese feel insecure.

At the 8th SCS International Conference in Nha Trang, participants insisted on respect for international law and their desire for peace. But even with Duterte’s apparent allegiance to China, peace remains precarious in the South China Sea. A fire can reignite at any time with just a spark.

_Nguyen Quoc-Thanh holds a Ph.D. in Maritime Studies. IrAsia, Aix-Marseille University._

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## Carlosa

*Between an Uncertain Duterte and Trump and a Powerful China, Vietnam Sees Stability in ASEAN*

*http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/duterte-trump-china-vietnam-asean_us_58361b9ee4b09b6056002121*




Stephen B. Morton/Associated Press

Prior to Trump’s victory at the polls, the U.S.-Vietnam relationship had been on a steady path toward improvement.
PERTH, Australia ― As the world catastrophizes about what a Trump presidency means for global security and stability, Vietnam and the Philippines are marking one year since the signing of a strategic partnership that signaled Hanoi’s attempt to further solidify its ties in the region.

But following the clinch of this bilateral pact in 2015, Southeast Asia witnessed numerous landmark developments. The Philippines won its arbitration case against China, another heavyweight in the region, over territorial disputes in the South China Sea and elected a new, less predictable leader ― Rodrigo Duterte. And the friend both nations share, the United States, has now chosen its own unpredictable head of state ― Donald Trump.

While these changes have altered the dynamics of the region and Duterte and Trump work to develop their foreign policy strategies, Vietnam has thus far remained friends with both the U.S. and China. And as it works to balance relations with these two nations, Hanoi is hoping the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, or ASEAN, will play an important role in any further disputes in the South China Sea and provide some balance to any instability. 

*The U.S. and Vietnam *




Kevin Lamarque / Reuters

Obama recently made an official visit to Vietnam.
Prior to Trump’s victory at the polls, the U.S.-Vietnam relationship had been on a steady path toward improvement since the end of the war and the resumption of diplomatic relations. Within the last year, U.S. President Barack Obama made an official visit to the country and lifted the arms sale embargo that had been implemented during the Cold War. In many ways this was one of the last hurdles to full normalization.

Today, however, this increased understanding between the two nations is on hold as Vietnam, and the world, assesses the significance of America’s power shuffle. What might a Trump presidency mean for this improved relationship, especially given his blunt critique of Beijing on the campaign trail? As with most Trump policies, many are still unsure, but with Vietnam’s departure from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and Trump’s announcement of a U.S. withdrawal as well, it is clear Vietnam is apprehensiveabout its friendship with the United States.

And the U.S is not the only country that Vietnam is wary of. Vietnam must also factor in the Philippines’ Duterte’s off-color and outlandish comments. His “pivot” to China and tough anti-U.S. rhetoric have left many wondering if this means another regional shake-up, and for Vietnam, yet another reason to place faith in ASEAN.

*Why Vietnam Is Hopeful About ASEAN*




Soe Zeya Tun / Reuters

The organization serves as a valuable channel for discussion and cooperation past Southeast Asian bilateral engagement with larger powers.
ASEAN is a useful forum and whilst the “paper tiger” has little to directly add to U.S. and China’s differing stances in the South China Sea, it is at least a (sometimes) unified Southeast Asian voice. 

While nothing is guaranteed, the organization serves as a means for discussion and cooperation past Southeast Asian bilateral engagement with larger powers. It also attracts the attention of more influential and larger countries worldwide. China and America look at it for engagement purposes, Australia has tried to gain membership and even Russia has begun to engage with the body more heavily as well.

For Vietnam, however, ASEAN is not only a general regional stabilizer, but a forum that helps Hanoi manage aspects of its relations with the U.S. and the Philippines.

And Vietnam certainly understands diversification of ties ― it is one of the tenets of the nation’s foreign policy and it has greatly increased the number of its strategic partnerships from 2011 to 2015. Its partnership with the Philippines is being watched possibly more closely since both the Hague ruling and Duterte’s words. Any change to the U.S. alliance and U.S. presence in the region would be concerning to Hanoi. 

As I reported a few months ago, Vietnam’s reaction to the Philippines’ win on the South China Sea ruling in the Hague’s Permanent Arbitration Court was muted. This response, however, was not because Hanoi had sided with Beijing, but merely that antagonizing its large and thwarted neighbor would have been a bad move. And those watching would have noticed many nations stayed quiet, some members of ASEAN included.

‘For a country like Vietnam ... the most challenging issue is how to construct and maintain the balance among the big powers.’ Dinh Hoang Thang, Vietnam’s former ambassador to the Netherlands
“For a country like Vietnam and the Philippines, the most challenging issue is how to construct and maintain the balance among the big powers,” Vietnam’s former ambassador to the Netherlands Dinh Hoang Thang, who has been known to publicly comment on South China Sea disputes, said at a conference in Tokyo. “And here I don’t see the big differences between the approach of the Philippines and Vietnam.”

The partnership between the Philippines and Vietnam goes beyond that of merely a tangential shared interest in the balance of powers. In fact, as clear through their recent strategic partnership, the two nations have taken a more direct approach to cooperation with a focus on ASEAN’s role in their relationship.

ASEAN and its importance is a central tenet of the Joint Vision Statement, or JVS, signed by Vietnam and the Philippines as part of the signing of their strategic partnership on Nov. 17 of last year. The JVS made particular note to place ASEAN at the center of the relationship between the two nations in order to maintain, “peace, stability and security in the region.”

This, of course, could be optimistic considering the distinct lack of consensus at the 2012 and 2015 summits and recent shows of bilateral friendship between ASEAN members and China, including a defense deal between Malaysia and China. 

But the efforts to maintain the group remain strong, and just recently, Vietnam held a conference focusing on maritime tensions. According to reports from _Viet Nam News_, the conference “stress[ed] the need to promote ASEAN’s central role in managing disputes in the East Sea.”

*Dog Days of Duterte*




Hoang Dinh Nam// Reuters

For Vietnam, a strong Chinese influence over the Philippines could change ASEAN in favor of China.
ASEAN is a forum for varied nations to cooperate, reinforcing multilateralism, consensus and cooperation ― all things Vietnam values. Does Duterte value those things? Although Duterte has gained international media attention for his unpredictability, he is also next in line to be the chair of ASEAN, whose summit will be held in the Philippines in 2017.

What Duterte believes about ASEAN then matters too, not just his off-the-cuff anti-U.S. rhetoric. And tighter relations between the Philippines and China could potentially undercut this. An actively pro-China Philippines, if it is at the cost of other members, could harm unity within the organization and counteract Vietnam’s efforts to use ASEAN to balance out powers in the region, particularly since Vietnam views the multilateral ASEAN as a useful counter to China’s growing influence on issues such as the debates over the South China Sea territory. For Vietnam, a strong Chinese influence over the Philippines could change the organization in favor of China. 

From the perspective of the Philippines, however, Duterte’s pivot to China may help to salvage the country’s economy in spite of a Donald Trump presidency, a concern which may be at the forefront of Duterte’s mind more than it appears.

Since the U.S. election, Duterte has publicly congratulated Donald Trump. “Long live, Mr. Trump! We both curse at the slightest of reasons. We are alike ... I don’t want to quarrel anymore, because Trump has won,” he said. And while he may not want to “quarrel,” experts in the region speculate this does not mean he is unaware of the potential harm Trump may cause the Philippines were a close relationship to continue. 

Despite worries of his own erratic behavior, President-elect Trump may end up saving the Philippines’ relationship with the United States.
As Ernesto Pernia, a professor at the University of the Philippines School of Economics, pointed out at a press conference held by Duterte’s cabinet, the nation’s economy may be adversely affected should Trump push on with tariffs for U.S. firms, many of which operate in the Philippines.

“[Duterte] foresaw that there’s this likelihood of Trump becoming president, so he decided to pivot to China,” Pernia, also economic planning secretary, said at the presser. This pivot to China is also about protecting Filipino livelihoods and “diversifying [the Philippines’] friends,” he added.

Duterte, of course, has reason to be cautious of Trump, even if he feels they are like souls. Will this rebalance the relationship with the U.S.? Who can say yet? However, Duterte’s anti-U.S. sentiment is not new, and a real push towards China would concern Hanoi. The reactive personalities of both, compared with the measured words of the Obama administration, would be a concern also.

*Fracturing Friendships: Philippines’ Pivot to China*




AFP via Getty Images

Duterte has indicated he may move his country closer to China.
Improving Philippine relations with China is something ASEAN, Vietnam and the U.S. all saw as initially important. But Duterte has moved the rhetoric one step further, suggesting the U.S. should leave the Philippines, wanting to discontinue the alliance all together and possibly move closer to China. 

In fact, Vietnam has already begun worrying about the Philippines’ pivot. The potential shift towards China has caused,“Vietnam’s assurance in the steadiness of the Philippines [to slip],” _The Nikkei Asia Review_ wrote earlier this month.

Vietnam and the U.S. were not expecting the Philippines, a formerly close friend of the U.S., to make such a sudden change, especially post-arbitration against China, and both the U.S. and Vietnam worry that the brash decision may not be the last under a Duterte administration.

Murray Hiebert, a senior Southeast Asia analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington has suggested that Vietnam did not entirely sign up for the confusion of a Duterte administration.

“Vietnam was quite enthusiastic about its new-found friend in the Philippines under Aquino, but Duterte’s constant emotional outbursts against Washington has them a bit concerned,” he told Reuters.

Then again, just as Vietnam and the Philippines signed their strategic partnership deal under an older administration, Duterte’s ire has been reserved for the current U.S. president, not the president-elect. He has, as I wrote, praised the man. If that can surmount Duterte’s U.S. skepticism or the two develop an unlikely friendship, all may not be lost. So despite worries of his own erratic behavior, President-elect Trump may end up saving the Philippines’ relationship with the United States. 

‘China now has an incentive to push diplomacy to consolidate its presence in the South China Sea’ Carlyle Thayer, Vietnam expert at the Australian Defence Force Academy
In fact, some regional experts note that better China relations may end up profiting East and South Asian nations.

Emeritus Professor Carlyle Thayer, a Vietnam expert at the Australian Defence Force Academy, has said that he believes that a Philippine swing to China will actually have the benefit of calming the region, and possibly quieting an aggressive China. 

“Ironically, Duterte’s current pivot to China will likely depress Chinese assertiveness and further militarization of the Spratly islands,” Thayer wrote in a briefing last month. “... China now has an incentive to push diplomacy to consolidate its presence in the South China Sea.” 

The combination of Trump’s election, and whatever implications that may have for the future of relations in the region, along with Duterte’s unpredictability leave Vietnam to pin hopes for stability in the region on ASEAN, far away from such fiery, personality-driven politics. But as trade relations in the region fluctuate, it will be interesting to see where the new year will lead.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam And Cambodia Military Ties Mature*
*http://www.khmertimeskh.com/news/32577/vietnam-and-cambodia-military-ties-mature/*




Vietnam’s Major General Le Hien Van and Defense Minister Tea Banh at yesterday’s gathering of senior military officials. KT/Ven Rathavong

Since 1980, Cambodia has sent nearly 17,000 military officials for training in Vietnam, which has inspired Defense Minister Tea Banh to pose the idea of an alumni gathering for all military officials who have received overseas training.

General Meas Sam Ol, director of the Defense Ministry’s personnel department, said yesterday during a gathering of military officials who have trained in Vietnam that 4,895 military officials received long-, medium- or short-term training in Vietnam from 1980 until 1989.

He added that from 2002 until the present, 12,068 military officials have received training, with 10,230 already graduated and 1,038 still studying.

Gen. Sam Ol said the officials studied all skills related to military procedure.

Major General Le Hien Van, deputy director of the Vietnam People’s Army’s general department of politics, said at the alumni gathering: “Until present, more than 15,000 Cambodian military officials have studied at institutes of the Vietnam People’s Army.

“This figure is very significant and reflects close cooperation and efficiency between both countries’ armies for building and training human resources and enhancing army development,” he said, adding that more than 1,000 Cambodian military officials are now studying long term in Vietnam.

He added that they could use their knowledge to develop Cambodia upon their return.

In front of 1,200 officials who trained in Vietnam, Gen. Banh said: “We will provide an opportunity for all trainees [military officials] who have studied in other countries. If you all want to hold an alumni gathering, we will do it.”

He added that officials have been sent to study in Russia, Australia, the US, China and other countries. He said he would support a gathering of students who have trained overseas.

In June, Vietnam’s National Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich paid a visit to Cambodia and pledged to expand military cooperation, continue providing training to army officials and build human resources in the military sector.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> since you ask for a quiz, then lets do a quiz.
> 
> Vietnam's military spending today is about 2% of China's spending on military. So if you want to achieve 10% of China, your military spending needs to boost to 5x of the size today. Assume the military spending vs. GDP ratio remains unchanged, that means your GDP needs to increaase to 5x of the size today. Now lets assume a 7% GDP growth rate for Vietnam, 1.07^24 = 5.07, i.e. Vietnam needs *24 years* to make its military spending equivalent to 10% of China's spending TODAY.
> 
> China is also growing during the same period. Assume a 5% GDP growth rate of China, and China's military spending vs. GDP ratio also remains unchanged. 1.05^24 = 3.23. I.e. China's military spending at that time will be 3x of its amount today! That means, after 24 years of rapid economy development, *Vietnam successfully grows its military spending from 2% of China in 2015 to 3% of China in 2039. *Congratulations!
> 
> BTW, you can argue Vietnam has the potential to enhance its military spending rate. *Vietnam today spends 2.3% of the GDP on military*, looks like plenty of room for further enhancement. Yes, that's a possible choice. But when you consider this option, pls don't forget *China only spends 1.9% of its GDP on military*.


I was thinking for a while of how to respond. Initially you remembered I raised the question how much Vietnam defence budget should be to address the security threat we are facing. My estimate is about 1/10 of China. Yes, you are right. It is virtually impossible because first the economic disparity between the two countries is huge, and second even if we do so, our economic development will stall. That is not what we want. Our opponents may want to see us to start an arms race, but that is a trap we want to avoid to enter. Remember, traditionally Vietnam is a pacifist country.

But if you answered my quiz, you would have found partly the solution for Vietnam. But right now, also that scenario is unrealistic. So what is the solution for Vietnam? or I think that is the way to go. Actually that is already happening as we speak. If you find the answer, you will surprise me


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## Silent Knight

The last Kilo sub for Vietnam (187 Bà Rịa - Vũng Tàu) is being loaded onto Rolldock Storm heavy transporter. Expected delivery is mid January 2017.

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## Viet

unmanned 57 mm artillery, with auto loading of ammunitions, target finder, radar, night vision gear.

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## Viet

73 mm smoothbore SPG-9T2 with armor piercing shell

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## cochine

*Vietnam's 6th Russian-built submarine to arrive in January*

By VnExpress November 30, 2016 | 04:58 pm GMT+7

*The six submarines have been built under a $2-billion deal aiming to strengthen Vietnam's maritime forces.*
The sixth Kilo-class attack submarine built by Russia is scheduled to arrive in Vietnam's Cam Ranh Bay in January.

The submarine, HQ-187 Ba Ria-Vung Tau, is being delivered by the Dutch-registered vessel Rolldock Storm, _Thanh Nien _newspaper reported.

The submarine was launched on September 28, 2015 at the St. Petersburg-based Admiralty Shipyard, and then began its trial run on December 19.

On November 24, it started the voyage to Vietnam.

Vietnam had inked a deal worth $2 billion with Russia in 2009 to buy six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines to strengthen its maritime forces. The contract also includes training programs for Vietnamese crew in Russia.

The fifth submarine arrived in the country in February 21 this year.

The Kilo-class submarines are built with advanced stealth technology, extended combat range and modern navigation systems. They can operate at a maximum depth of 300 meters and a range of 9,600 kilometers for 45 days.


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## TenLua

madokafc said:


> in your dreams....


You may think this is crazy, but Indonesia, because of her caste systems, will be conquered =)


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## initial_d

TenLust: 8966345 said:


> You may think this is crazy, but Indonesia, because of her caste systems, will be conquered =)


What are you talking about!!??


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## GraveDigger388

TenLua said:


> You may think this is crazy, but Indonesia, because of her caste systems, will be conquered =)


Caste system?

Wow..

Caste system, huh....


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## TenLua

I have a favor to ask of the Vietnamese community. You must research "pizzagate" and spread the word. America, Europe, and the rest of the world have failed to protect our children from pedophiles at the highest level of power. If we, the world, do not bring justice to these children who are being raped, murdered, and torture we do not deserve to live. 

If you see old men taking advantage of children, do the world a favor and send him/her to his maker. These demons must be eradicated.



GraveDigger388 said:


> Caste system?
> 
> Wow..
> 
> Caste system, huh....



http://www.discover-bali-indonesia.com/encyclopedia-caste-system-of-hinduism.html

Yeh.


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## GraveDigger388

TenLua said:


> http://www.discover-bali-indonesia.com/encyclopedia-caste-system-of-hinduism.html
> 
> Yeh.



Wow...

Indonesia=Bali/Hinduism

Much accurate...

Very true..

Wow...


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## Viet

off-topic guys, can we return to military thing?
about discussing Vietnam´s future three naval fleets with destroyer, submarine and aircraft carrier


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## Nike

Viet said:


> off-topic guys, can we return to military thing?
> about discussing Vietnam´s future three naval fleets with destroyer, submarine and aircraft carrier



good


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## Viet

12.7 mm machine gun

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> off-topic guys, can we return to military thing?
> about discussing Vietnam´s future three naval fleets with destroyer, submarine and aircraft carrier



**** that, VN is skipping those sitting ducks and going straight for ships in space.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> **** that, VN is skipping those sitting ducks and going straight for ships in space.


Conquering the space before it is cool


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## Carlosa

Aboard Vietnam’s homebuilt missile-armed fast attack craft

http://tuoitrenews.vn/features/38295/aboard-vietnams-homebuilt-missilearmed-fast-attack-craft

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 12/01/2016 





*Vietnam’s homebuilt Molniya-class fast attack crafts (FACs) are armed with 12 air defense missiles and 16 subsonic anti-ship missiles with an operational range of up to 130 kilometers.*

The crafts are allotted to the three-year-old 167th Artillery – Missile Ship Brigade, which has become a key unit of the Vietnam People’s Navy with capabilities for standalone and cooperative combat missions at sea in the armed force’s operations.

Young officers of the brigade take particular pride in being trained to master the controls and operations of the crafts.

*Lightning strikes*

The name Molniya means ‘lightning’ in Russian, an accurate representation of the speed and power of these modern warships.

In the past, Vietnam resorted to buying Molniya-class FACs from Russia, but newer Moniya vessels employed by the 167th Brigade were built completely locally at the Ba Son shipyard under the country’s Ministry of Defense.

In comparison with Russian-built Molniya-class vessels, Vietnam’s Molniya ships boast a more modern control system.

Thanks to the readily available vessels, the training of new crew members for Molniya-class FACs now takes only four months, according to naval captain Le Ba Quan, chief of staff of the 167thBrigade.

“In 2016 alone, the brigade trained two entire crews to prepare for admission onto our two newly-built ships,” Quan said. “In only a short time, we have managed to train a united team that makes dedication and solidarity their first priority in training missions.”

According to captain Quan, his brigade is focused on the sole mission of training crew members to operate Molniya-class vessels, as “undertrained officers would not have full combat capability when the situation arises."

Molniya-class FACs differ from older warships in Vietnam's naval fleet in that all of the vessels' operations are controlled through modern equipment.

Machinery, radars, and all types of weaponry on board these vessels are interconnected to automatically locate the target and calculate relevant parameters before sending the final confirmation to the commanding officer to fire the shot.

“In combat, the ship is only as powerful as its crew,” Quan explained. “Just one wrong move by a soldier and the machines will lose accuracy.”






_A Vietnamese naval officer on board a Molniya-class missile-armed fast attack craft during a combat training mission at sea. Photo: _Tuoi Tre

*Young officers*

Despite the ship’s complicated controls, commanding officers in charge of basic operations on board Molniya-class vessels are all fresh military school graduates.

“Many officers in my brigade are fluent in Russian and can translate Russian military materials into Vietnamese at ease thanks to years of studying in Russia,” naval captain Nguyen Viet Anh said with apparent pride in his expression.

According to captain Anh, the young officers in his brigade not only translate Russian materials but also do their own research to compile more detailed and comprehensible training documents for new generations of crew members.

Naval sub-lieutenant Nguyen Van Phong, chief technician of the radio – radar division aboard one of the Molniya-class FACs of the 167th Brigade, is one such officer.

Phong was among the first officers to take over the first generation of Vietnam-built Molniya-class vessels, and was promoted to his current position at the age of 25, one year after he graduated from a military school.

The lieutenant also designed and built his own training model for the ship’s radar system to be used in the training of new officers.






_A Molniya-class missile-armed fast attack craft. Photo:_ Tuoi Tre


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> **** that, VN is skipping those sitting ducks and going straight for ships in space.


ha ha ha ...too early, I think we should concentrate on more practical things on earth. Just reading this nice toy. Vietnam made two variants of underwater bombs KMP and UĐM, for water depth up to 125 m. especially suitable for attacking submerged enemy submarines. or we could lay several rings of 1,000 such black metal bowls to protect our island holdings from surprise attacks from our lovely northern neighbour. with the potential of bringing down the entire commercial traffic in the South China sea to a standstill.


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## Viet

for a protection from a far distance. Wonderful pictures of Kilo attack submarines, armed to the teeth, by torpedo, sea mines, air defence missiles and as bonbon Kalibr cruise missiles against ships and land targets at a distance of 300 km away. should we be able to decode the software, the range can be extended to 2,500 km


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## Viet

*Lockheed P3 Orion surveillance aircraft*

this news from Germany may be of interest for Vietnam, some reports speculated Vietnam Navy wants to buy second hand Lockheed P3 Orion surveillance aircraft. 10 years ago, the germans bought 6 second hand Orions from the Dutch. the total cost including purchase and maintenance during 10 year operation: incredible 1.2 billion euro. but right now, no Orion is operational because the aircraft are under going maintenance and overhaul. very expensive. an interesting fact is Airbus performs maintenance for Lockheed aircraft, but due to lack of maintenance capacity at Airbus, delay is programmed. the for next 4 years, the budget for maintenance of the 6 aircraft will be 173 million euro. because of high operation and maintenance cost, one of 6 aircraft has even seen only 2.5 hours mid-air.

I think this bird is too expensive for Vietnam. well, unless the Japanese donates some of 73 P3s in its inventory.





http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/second-hand-japanese-p-3c-orions-might-be-the-right-call-for-vietnam/

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## Carlosa

*PH Navy ship to make 5-day port visit to Vietnam*
By: Frances Mangosing - Reporter / @FMangosingINQ
INQUIRER.net / 07:20 PM December 02, 2016



This photo taken on June 7, 2014 shows the Philippine Navy frigate BRP Ramon Alacraz anchored at the mouth of the South China Sea in Ulugan Bay off Puerto Princesa on Palawan island. AFP

A Philippine Navy ship was sent off on Friday to make a five-day port visit to Vietnam.

BRP Ramon Alcaraz (FF-16) with helicopter Agusta Westland 109 were sent off by Navy chief Vice Admiral Ronald Joseph Mercado at South Harbor in Manila.

The ship with more or less 300 Philippine Navy personnel onboard will make a port visit to Cam Ranh from Dec. 2 to 12. Aside from the crew, surface warfare students, medical team, Naval Special Operations Team and other port visit directorate members will join the visit. The mission team is headed by Commodore Albert Mogol, commander of Fleet-Marine Ready Force.

Some of the activities during the visit include drills for unplanned encounters at sea, maneuvers and communication exercise, search and rescue exercise, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief.

“These exercises will give us an opportunity to not only practice what might be called upon to do in any given situation, but also the chance to establish a professional relationship with our allies, making us a more capable force working together at sea,” said Navy public affairs chief Captain Lued Lincuna.

The two navies will also hold another activity in Pugad Island or Southwest Cay in the South China Sea before the year ends.

Read more: https://globalnation.inquirer.net/150330/ph-navy-ship-make-5-day-port-visit-vietnam#ixzz4RgyeCf3I 
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook


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## Carlosa

Updated picture of the reclamation on Spratly Island. The southern part of the runway appears to be finished and the construction of the hangars is progressing nicely.

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## Viet



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## TenLua

Vietnam will be making a big mistake if they purchase American equipment. We can/will render any and all our products inoperable should they want. Remember what the cia did in Vietnam; they will use the dirtiest, most dishonorable method.



Viet said:


> ha ha ha ...too early, I think we should concentrate on more practical things on earth. Just reading this nice toy. Vietnam made two variants of underwater bombs KMP and UĐM, for water depth up to 125 m. especially suitable for attacking submerged enemy submarines. or we could lay several rings of 1,000 such black metal bowls to protect our island holdings from surprise attacks from our lovely northern neighbour. with the potential of bringing down the entire commercial traffic in the South China sea to a standstill.



Oh ye of little faith. Aim high.


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## TenLua

You think those state of the art passenger aircraft just randomly fall out of the sky with important people on board? So naive. These aircraft (boeing) are equipped with devices planted by the cia that will render hydraulics, fuel systems, etc....useless. You honestly believe they can't find a 300 million dollar aircraft when they can locate the pubic hair on your nuts? Don't be foolish.

Think about it. Why the sudden change of heart when they decided to sell weapons to Vietnam? Because they know when it comes to it, they can locate and destroy the equiment you bought from them without ever leaving the war room.

The American people know all about it. They know their own government do not care about them. They know.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Vietnam will be making a big mistake if they purchase American equipment. We can/will render any and all our products inoperable should they want. Remember what the cia did in Vietnam; they will use the dirtiest, most dishonorable method.
> 
> Oh ye of little faith. Aim high.


come on you want to kill my dream of Aegis destroyers? I think before Vietnam army buys any lethal US weapon a careful consideration should be conducted. Trust is the most important thing, access to the source code is not bad, either. As you said it, we should not trust blindly any foreign nation.

@Carlosa

Considering the disaster the German armed forces with the P3 surveillance aircraft, I believe we should opt for newer and modern bird. What about airbus?

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> come on you want to kill my dream of Aegis destroyers? I think before Vietnam army buys any lethal US weapon a careful consideration should be conducted. Trust is the most important thing, access to the source code is not bad, either. As you said it, we should not trust blindly any foreign nation.
> 
> @Carlosa
> 
> Considering the disaster the German armed forces with the P3 surveillance aircraft, I believe we should opt for newer and modern bird. What about airbus?



No matter what you do, you cannot cover everything they can do to your equipment. Best bet is to not waste money on it. Some people simply cannot be trusted.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> come on you want to kill my dream of Aegis destroyers? I think before Vietnam army buys any lethal US weapon a careful consideration should be conducted. Trust is the most important thing, access to the source code is not bad, either. As you said it, we should not trust blindly any foreign nation.
> 
> @Carlosa
> 
> Considering the disaster the German armed forces with the P3 surveillance aircraft, I believe we should opt for newer and modern bird. What about airbus?



The C-295 MPA should be fine and the aircraft will also be brand new.

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## Viet

military exercise. more lowtech than hightech

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## Carlosa

*Why Do the Americans Still Need Vietnam and the Vietnamese Need Them?*
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/164179
by Christopher Goscha 

Christopher Goscha is an associate professor of history at the Université du Québec à Montréal. The author and editor of numerous books on Vietnam, Southeast Asia, and international relations in English and French, he lives in Montreal, Canada. His latest book is Vietnam: A New History (Basic Books, 2016). 





President Obama’s highly publicized visit to Vietnam in May 2016 reminded us of the important role this small country continues to play in global geopolitics. As the Chinese directly challenge American naval dominance over the Pacific and Indians Oceans, Vietnamese and American strategists have increasingly put their past differences behind them in order to focus on how best to deal with China’s increasingly aggressive claims to the sea, many of its islands, and lanes. 

Many observers, especially those opposed to America’s military intervention in Vietnam in the mid-20th century, tend to downplay the geopolitical importance of Vietnam. America had no business getting involved in Vietnam in the first place. The famous ‘domino theory’ justifying American intervention in Vietnam was flawed. The communist threat was overblown from the start. But one doesn’t have to believe in the ‘domino theory’ or take sides for or against American intervention in the ‘Vietnam’ War’ to recognize that Vietnam remains one of these historically coveted areas of the globe where empires go. 

The Americans were hardly the first to intervene in Vietnam for geopolitical reasons and they were not the last. Because of its overland connections to Southeast Asia and its maritime opening to the Pacific and Indian Oceans, Vietnam has always tempted bigger powers to intervene. The Chinese empire ruled northern Vietnam for almost a thousand years beginning around the second century BCE. As the empire’s southern most province, Vietnam served as a gateway for China’s trade with Indian Ocean markets extending to India and the Middle East. Indeed, much as the Silk Road pulled the Chinese empire towards Eurasia’s interior, the Indian Ocean’s markets drew it towards the south. Chinese trade with the world’s other great empire of that time, Rome, went across the Silk Road the Indian Ocean. It is no accident that Roman coins have been unearthed in today’s southern Vietnam. 

The Vietnamese secured their independence in 939, but briefly lost it again to the Chinese in the early fifteenth century as the Ming dynasty (1368-1644) recolonized Vietnam as part of its wider imperial expansion that sent Chinese armadas across the Indian Ocean as far as eastern Africa and the Red Sea. The Mongols had also tried to pass through Vietnam in the 13th century in order to take control of the Spice Islands of today’s Indonesia. The Vietnamese pushed them back by land while the Japanese and Javanese did so by sea. And although the Vietnamese regained their independence from the Ming Chinese in 1427, we often forget that they then pushed their own empire southwards to benefit from trade with the Indian Ocean world dominated until then by the Cham and Khmers. 

Following the Chinese recall of its navy from the high seas in 1433, a new set of European imperial powers expanded into the region via the Pacific and Indian Oceans, the Spanish and Portuguese followed by the British, French, and Dutch. These Western imperial powers adopted increasingly aggressive policies towards Asia in the nineteenth century when the French colonized Vietnam and the British confiscated Singapore, Burma, and Malaya. Meanwhile, the Americans crossed the Pacific Ocean to take the Philippines from the Spanish while the Japanese leveled their colonial sights on Korea and Taiwan. The Americans were part of this larger colonial assault on Asia in the 19th century.

The French were aware of the strategic importance of their Vietnamese colony in this wider imperial competition. In the early twentieth century, they finished building the deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay, located off the southeastern coast of Vietnam. Russian warships dispatched from the Baltic to stop Japanese colonial expansion into China and Korea gathered there before being defeated by the Japanese in 1905 à Tsushima. Following the Japanese invasion of China in 1937, President Franklin Roosevelt closely followed Japanese movements down the Chinese coastline and imposed an embargo on Tokyo as Japanese imperial troops started occupying Vietnam in 1940. His fears of a wider Japanese thrust into the Indian Ocean via Vietnam were well founded. In early 1942, having attacked Pearl Harbor a few weeks earlier, the Japanese occupied all of Vietnam and then concentrated their ships in Cam Ranh Bay before attacking Southeast Asia and striking as far as the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Created that same year in Australia, the American 7th Fleet attacked and began rolling back the Japanese empire until the end of the war in August 1945. The American navy replaced the Japanese navy that year. It controls the Pacific and Indian Oceans to this day. 

Following the Chinese communist victory in 1949, American presidents of all political colors (Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson) were convinced that if Vietnam fell to the communists, it would allow the Soviets and the Chinese to march across the region much as the Japanese had done before them. The famous domino theory did not appear out of thin air because Eisenhower evoked it in 1954 when speaking of the possible defeat of French troops at Dien Bien Phu. And despite their disdain for French colonial rule over Vietnam, from 1950 (as the Korean War got underway just to the north), the Americans increased their support of the French in Indochina in order to contain the spread of communism. The 7th Fleet first called on Vietnam in 1950 to reassure the French of American backing. 

When the French withdrew from their war with Ho Chi Minh and agreed to divide Vietnam, like Korea, into a communist north led by Ho and a non-communist South, the Americans accepted but switched their support to an anticommunist Vietnamese leader for the South named Ngo Dinh Diem. As long as this man did not undermine America’s wider strategic goal of containing Eurasian communism, things could continue as they had with the French. But they didn’t and when Diem’s draconian policies in the countryside (land reform, strategic hamlets, and repression) seemed to play into the communist hands the Americans supported his overthrow in 1963. However, when stability still remained elusive, President Lyndon Johnson had to either get out of Vietnam for good or intervene directly. He decided to send in US ground troops in early 1965 while the US navy stationed the bulk of its forces in Cam Ranh Bay. 

Ironically, the American withdrawal from the country in April 1975 in no way diminished its geopolitical importance as a new set of ‘great powers’ were already competing with each for influence in the world – the Soviets and the Chinese. Having broken ideologically and violently with the Soviets since the late 1960s, the Chinese worried that their communist brethren in Hanoi would join the Soviets to help encircle them from the south (the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan in 1979 and accelerated its naval expansion into the Pacific via Vladivostok). The Chinese threw their weight behind the genocidal Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, whose leaders were virulently opposed to the Vietnamese, communist or not. The Vietnamese turned to the Soviets, signed a security treaty in 1978, including the lease of Cam Ranh Bay to the Soviets, before overthrowing the Khmer Rouge later that year. China’s leader, Deng Xiaoping, travelled to the United States to win over American support of a project to teach Vietnam a lesson for this “betrayal.” In early 1979, the Chinese sent troops into Vietnam in what was the first war among communists in world history. Significantly, thanks to their access to Cam Ranh Bay, the Soviets projected their naval power deep into Southeast Asia for the first time ever in world history. 

The crumbling of the Soviet empire and its European satellites by 1991 profoundly altered the geopolitical calculus, but not the strategic importance of Vietnam. With the Soviets and their navy gone, the Chinese have for the first time since recalling their armadas in 1433 begun reasserting their influence into the Indian Ocean, taking, claiming, and even building islands. Given that the war among Asian communists in the late 1970s put to rest any notion of an operational communist bloc or alliance, Vietnamese communists have now entered into negotiations with the Americans, Japanese, Europeans and anyone else who can help them deal with the resurgence of Chinese naval power despite relying on Chinese communist models for economic renovation and continued single-party rule. 

The Americans share the Vietnamese desire to contain the Chinese naval thrust into the Pacific and Indian Oceans. And this is why President Obama, like Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush before him, travelled to Vietnam. The Americans still ‘need’ Vietnam and the Vietnamese need them. Why? Because Vietnam is in the middle of that area where American control of the Indian and Pacific Oceans dating from WWII bumps up against the Eurasian continent and a Chinese empire increasingly willing to challenge the American naval hold over Asian waters. Little wonder talks have already begun allowing American vessels to use the Vietnamese naval facilities of Cam Ranh Bay. Vietnam continues to find itself perched upon one of the globe’s most dangerous geopolitical fault lines.

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## Carlosa

Some people think that Trump is not very interested in Asia affairs and that he will not confront China and therefore, Vietnam should get closer to China, but the following article (and his communication with Taiwan's president) seems to indicate otherwise:

*Trump unloads on China in Twitter rant*
*http://nypost.com/2016/12/04/trump-unloads-on-china-in-twitter-rant/*
WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald Trump launched a Twitter attack on China Sunday, warning Beijing against devaluing its currency and taxing US products in order to “build a massive military complex.”

“Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency (making it hard for our companies to compete), heavily tax our products going into their country (the U.S. doesn’t tax them) or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea? I don’t think so!” Trump wrote in two consecutive tweets sent at about 5:30 p.m.

While the second part of the Trump tweet seemed to be talking about an artificial reef the Chinese have built in the South China Sea that can support a military base, it was not clear what Trump was referring to when he wrote about a possible request by China to devalue their currency.

The president-elect has accused the Chinese in the past of currency manipulation.

“China is the big abuser,” Trump said during the campaign calling Beijing and other nations “grand masters at monetary manipulation.”

The tweets came after China lodged a complaint with the US on Saturday because Trump accepted a congratulatory call from the leader of Taiwan.

The call broke nearly 40 years of protocol, in which US presidents have not spoken directly to Taiwanese leaders since China considers Taiwan to be part of its nation.

The tweets also came after a busy flurry of tweets by Trump, which began early Sunday with him warning that US companies moving their factories to Mexico will face “retribution” under his administration.

Fresh off his pre-inaugural victory in keeping 1,000 Carrier jobs in Indianapolis, Trump reiterated a campaign pledge to slap goods imported from Mexico with a 35 percent tariff.
“The U.S. is going to substantialy (sic) reduce taxes and regulations on businesses, but any business that leaves our country for another country fires its employees, builds a new factory or plant in the other country, and then thinks it will sell its product back into the U.S. without retribution or consequence, is WRONG!,” the President Elect tweeted in the 6 o’clock hour.

Such a tariff would require congressional approval, but House Speaker Paul Ryan previously fretted Trump’s idea would start a “trade war” with other countries imposing retaliatory higher taxes on US imports.

---------------------

*Beijing faces decision on how to respond to Trump's tweets*

BEIJING (AP) — With Donald Trump's latest tweets touching on highly sensitive issues, China must decide how to handle an incoming American president who relishes confrontation and whose online statements appear to foreshadow shifts in foreign policy.

China awoke Monday to sharp criticism from Trump on Twitter, days after it responded to his telephone conversation with Taiwan's president by accusing the Taiwanese of playing a "little trick" on Trump.

Trump wrote, "Did China ask us if it was OK to devalue their currency (making it hard for our companies to compete, heavily tax our products going into their country (the U.S. doesn't tax them) or to build a massive military complex in the middle of the South China Sea? I don't think so!"

That was apparently prompted by China's response to Trump's Friday talk with Tsai Ing-wen, the first time an American president or president-elect had spoken to Taiwan's leader since the U.S. broke off formal diplomatic relations in 1979.

The U.S. and Taiwan retain strong unofficial ties, and the U.S. sells weapons to the self-governing island. But American leaders have for decades avoided any official recognition in deference to China, which claims Taiwan as part of its territory — to be captured by force if necessary. Trump's reference in another tweet to Tsai as "the President of Taiwan" was sure to inflame China, which considers any reference to Taiwan having a president as a grave insult.

China's reaction was relatively low-key and seemed to offer Trump a face-saving way out of an apparent blunder by blaming the Taiwanese side. English-language commentaries then appeared in two state-run newspapers known to be used by China's ruling Communist Party leadership to send messages abroad.

"Trump might be looking for some opportunities by making waves," said the Global Times in a Monday editorial headlined, "Talk to Trump, punish Tsai administration."

"However, he has zero diplomatic experience and is unaware of the repercussions of shaking up Sino-US relations," the newspaper said. "It is certain that Trump doesn't want a showdown with China, because it is not his ambition, and neither was it included in his promise to the electorate. He puts out feelers to sound China out and chalk up some petty benefits."

China's response was characteristically coded. But it now faces an incoming president who deals in outspoken tweets, not communiques.

Trump used a platform banned by censors in mainland China to renew several of his criticisms during the U.S. presidential campaign. Some of his arguments aren't true.

Taiwan's official Central News Agency, citing anonymous sources on Saturday, said that Edwin Feulner, founder of the Washington-based Heritage Foundation, was a "crucial figure" in setting up communication channels between the sides.

Vice President-elect Mike Pence said Sunday that the phone call shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as a shift in U.S. policy. He shrugged off the attention to the incident as media hype.

"It was a courtesy call," Pence told NBC's "Meet the Press."

Ned Price, a spokesman for the White House National Security Council, said Trump's conversation does not signal any change to long-standing U.S. policy on cross-strait issues — although some in Taiwan expressed hopes for strong U.S. support from the incoming administration.

In terms of Trump's criticisms, Chinese imports are taxed at standard U.S. rates, while Washington has recently slapped painful punitive tariffs on Chinese steel, solar panels and other goods.

And while China once kept a tight grip on the value of the yuan, also known as the renminbi, it now allows it to trade within a bandwidth 2 percent above or below a daily target set by the People's Bank of China.

The yuan is currently trading at around a six-year low against the dollar. But economists now conclude that the currency is more or less properly valued in relation to the dollar and other foreign currencies. And with economic growth slowing considerably and more Chinese trying to move money out of the country, the government is now spending massively to hold up the yuan's value rather than depressing it as Trump and other critics accuse it of doing. It has also imposed strict controls on Chinese moving money out of the country.

China has built up its military and constructed man-made islands in the South China Sea, and made sweeping territorial claims over almost the entire critical waterway. Those claims were broadly rejected in June by an international tribunal in The Hague.

The Chinese foreign ministry did not immediately comment to Trump's latest comments.

Shi Yinhong, a professor of international relations at People's University in Beijing, predicted China would not lash out immediately, but calibrate its response over the next several months after Trump enters the White House.

"Trump's remarks will certainly raise the concerns of Chinese leaders," Shi said. "But at the moment, they will be restrained and watch his moves closely."

___

Associated Press journalist Christopher Bodeen and news researcher Liu Zheng in Beijing contributed to this report.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Why Do the Americans Still Need Vietnam and the Vietnamese Need Them?*
> http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/164179
> by Christopher Goscha
> 
> Christopher Goscha is an associate professor of history at the Université du Québec à Montréal. The author and editor of numerous books on Vietnam, Southeast Asia, and international relations in English and French, he lives in Montreal, Canada. His latest book is Vietnam: A New History (Basic Books, 2016).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> President Obama’s highly publicized visit to Vietnam in May 2016 reminded us of the important role this small country continues to play in global geopolitics. As the Chinese directly challenge American naval dominance over the Pacific and Indians Oceans, Vietnamese and American strategists have increasingly put their past differences behind them in order to focus on how best to deal with China’s increasingly aggressive claims to the sea, many of its islands, and lanes.
> 
> Many observers, especially those opposed to America’s military intervention in Vietnam in the mid-20th century, tend to downplay the geopolitical importance of Vietnam. America had no business getting involved in Vietnam in the first place. The famous ‘domino theory’ justifying American intervention in Vietnam was flawed. The communist threat was overblown from the start. But one doesn’t have to believe in the ‘domino theory’ or take sides for or against American intervention in the ‘Vietnam’ War’ to recognize that Vietnam remains one of these historically coveted areas of the globe where empires go.
> 
> The Americans were hardly the first to intervene in Vietnam for geopolitical reasons and they were not the last. Because of its overland connections to Southeast Asia and its maritime opening to the Pacific and Indian Oceans, Vietnam has always tempted bigger powers to intervene. The Chinese empire ruled northern Vietnam for almost a thousand years beginning around the second century BCE. As the empire’s southern most province, Vietnam served as a gateway for China’s trade with Indian Ocean markets extending to India and the Middle East. Indeed, much as the Silk Road pulled the Chinese empire towards Eurasia’s interior, the Indian Ocean’s markets drew it towards the south. Chinese trade with the world’s other great empire of that time, Rome, went across the Silk Road the Indian Ocean. It is no accident that Roman coins have been unearthed in today’s southern Vietnam.
> 
> The Vietnamese secured their independence in 939, but briefly lost it again to the Chinese in the early fifteenth century as the Ming dynasty (1368-1644) recolonized Vietnam as part of its wider imperial expansion that sent Chinese armadas across the Indian Ocean as far as eastern Africa and the Red Sea. The Mongols had also tried to pass through Vietnam in the 13th century in order to take control of the Spice Islands of today’s Indonesia. The Vietnamese pushed them back by land while the Japanese and Javanese did so by sea. And although the Vietnamese regained their independence from the Ming Chinese in 1427, we often forget that they then pushed their own empire southwards to benefit from trade with the Indian Ocean world dominated until then by the Cham and Khmers.
> 
> Following the Chinese recall of its navy from the high seas in 1433, a new set of European imperial powers expanded into the region via the Pacific and Indian Oceans, the Spanish and Portuguese followed by the British, French, and Dutch. These Western imperial powers adopted increasingly aggressive policies towards Asia in the nineteenth century when the French colonized Vietnam and the British confiscated Singapore, Burma, and Malaya. Meanwhile, the Americans crossed the Pacific Ocean to take the Philippines from the Spanish while the Japanese leveled their colonial sights on Korea and Taiwan. The Americans were part of this larger colonial assault on Asia in the 19th century.
> 
> The French were aware of the strategic importance of their Vietnamese colony in this wider imperial competition. In the early twentieth century, they finished building the deep-water port of Cam Ranh Bay, located off the southeastern coast of Vietnam. Russian warships dispatched from the Baltic to stop Japanese colonial expansion into China and Korea gathered there before being defeated by the Japanese in 1905 à Tsushima. Following the Japanese invasion of China in 1937, President Franklin Roosevelt closely followed Japanese movements down the Chinese coastline and imposed an embargo on Tokyo as Japanese imperial troops started occupying Vietnam in 1940. His fears of a wider Japanese thrust into the Indian Ocean via Vietnam were well founded. In early 1942, having attacked Pearl Harbor a few weeks earlier, the Japanese occupied all of Vietnam and then concentrated their ships in Cam Ranh Bay before attacking Southeast Asia and striking as far as the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Created that same year in Australia, the American 7th Fleet attacked and began rolling back the Japanese empire until the end of the war in August 1945. The American navy replaced the Japanese navy that year. It controls the Pacific and Indian Oceans to this day.
> 
> Following the Chinese communist victory in 1949, American presidents of all political colors (Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson) were convinced that if Vietnam fell to the communists, it would allow the Soviets and the Chinese to march across the region much as the Japanese had done before them. The famous domino theory did not appear out of thin air because Eisenhower evoked it in 1954 when speaking of the possible defeat of French troops at Dien Bien Phu. And despite their disdain for French colonial rule over Vietnam, from 1950 (as the Korean War got underway just to the north), the Americans increased their support of the French in Indochina in order to contain the spread of communism. The 7th Fleet first called on Vietnam in 1950 to reassure the French of American backing.
> 
> When the French withdrew from their war with Ho Chi Minh and agreed to divide Vietnam, like Korea, into a communist north led by Ho and a non-communist South, the Americans accepted but switched their support to an anticommunist Vietnamese leader for the South named Ngo Dinh Diem. As long as this man did not undermine America’s wider strategic goal of containing Eurasian communism, things could continue as they had with the French. But they didn’t and when Diem’s draconian policies in the countryside (land reform, strategic hamlets, and repression) seemed to play into the communist hands the Americans supported his overthrow in 1963. However, when stability still remained elusive, President Lyndon Johnson had to either get out of Vietnam for good or intervene directly. He decided to send in US ground troops in early 1965 while the US navy stationed the bulk of its forces in Cam Ranh Bay.
> 
> Ironically, the American withdrawal from the country in April 1975 in no way diminished its geopolitical importance as a new set of ‘great powers’ were already competing with each for influence in the world – the Soviets and the Chinese. Having broken ideologically and violently with the Soviets since the late 1960s, the Chinese worried that their communist brethren in Hanoi would join the Soviets to help encircle them from the south (the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan in 1979 and accelerated its naval expansion into the Pacific via Vladivostok). The Chinese threw their weight behind the genocidal Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, whose leaders were virulently opposed to the Vietnamese, communist or not. The Vietnamese turned to the Soviets, signed a security treaty in 1978, including the lease of Cam Ranh Bay to the Soviets, before overthrowing the Khmer Rouge later that year. China’s leader, Deng Xiaoping, travelled to the United States to win over American support of a project to teach Vietnam a lesson for this “betrayal.” In early 1979, the Chinese sent troops into Vietnam in what was the first war among communists in world history. Significantly, thanks to their access to Cam Ranh Bay, the Soviets projected their naval power deep into Southeast Asia for the first time ever in world history.
> 
> The crumbling of the Soviet empire and its European satellites by 1991 profoundly altered the geopolitical calculus, but not the strategic importance of Vietnam. With the Soviets and their navy gone, the Chinese have for the first time since recalling their armadas in 1433 begun reasserting their influence into the Indian Ocean, taking, claiming, and even building islands. Given that the war among Asian communists in the late 1970s put to rest any notion of an operational communist bloc or alliance, Vietnamese communists have now entered into negotiations with the Americans, Japanese, Europeans and anyone else who can help them deal with the resurgence of Chinese naval power despite relying on Chinese communist models for economic renovation and continued single-party rule.
> 
> The Americans share the Vietnamese desire to contain the Chinese naval thrust into the Pacific and Indian Oceans. And this is why President Obama, like Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush before him, travelled to Vietnam. The Americans still ‘need’ Vietnam and the Vietnamese need them. Why? Because Vietnam is in the middle of that area where American control of the Indian and Pacific Oceans dating from WWII bumps up against the Eurasian continent and a Chinese empire increasingly willing to challenge the American naval hold over Asian waters. Little wonder talks have already begun allowing American vessels to use the Vietnamese naval facilities of Cam Ranh Bay. Vietnam continues to find itself perched upon one of the globe’s most dangerous geopolitical fault lines.


there is an interesting map in the article, showing the Han Chinese Dynasty that incorporated the modern day North Vietnam more than 2,000 years ago. why Vietnam? the Chinese invaded and annexed Vietnam in 111 BC because the country stopped paying tribute to the Han emperor. that was a strategic mistake when the leadership of Vietnam rejected vassal status and sought full sovereignty. ok nobody can change history. nevertheless, the map shows China back then had no control over Taiwan, neither Hainan nor South China sea. so when Chinese claim they own the sea, because they were the first who discovered it, that is the most ridiculous lie ever invented.


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## Viet

Since we are at it, talking on history. the rulers of Vietnam have seen both Ups and Downs since independence from Chinese rule. especially the last Viet dynasty, the Nguyen. the Nguyen were the one, that brought Vietnam to the largest territorial expansion ever seen in the history, also the one, that surrendered the nation to the hand of a foreigner. the French. anyway all history. I think the most impressive figure of the Nguyen is a women: the empress Nam Phuong, the principal wife of the last Nguyen Emperor Bao Dai.







the National Museum of History displays some of treasures of the Nguyen Dynasty. the most important items: the "golden books", where the Nguyen recorded their great achievements during their rules. written in chinese characters on gold/silber plates

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## Silent Knight

India has agreed to transfer missile technology to Vietnam, as well as technical support until Vietnam can self-produce these missiles. The actual missiles are not mentioned, but BrahMos and Prithvi are high possibilities.

Also mentioned is some $500m in credit, as well as $100m to build new patrol ships for Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

*India to train Vietnam’s Sukhoi fighter pilots*


Dinakar Peri
NEW DELHI: DECEMBER 06, 2016 02:40 IST

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...m’s-Sukhoi-fighter-pilots/article16765719.ece

Rajeev Bhatt

In a further boost to its growing defence ties with Vietnam, India has agreed to train the southeast nation’s Sukhoi-30 fighter pilots.

The agreement was reached during bilateral discussions between Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Vietnamese counterpart, General Ngo Xuan Lich, here on Monday.

*Details under discussion*

India and Vietnam have been steadily stepping up their cooperation, especially in the defence sector, against the backdrop of the growing assertiveness of China in the region. 

Bilateral ties recently received a further fillip when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Vietnam in September, on his way to the G-20 Summit in Guangzhou.

Both India and Vietnam operate Russian Su-30 jets and the two countries’ models differ slightly in their configuration.

India already trains Vietnamese sailors in operating Kilo class submarines, which Hanoi had begun inducting since January 2014. India operates over 200 Su-30MKI fighters and nine Kilo-class diesel electric submarines.

“Details are being worked out. Their pilots will be trained here. The two Air Forces will now sit and work out the numbers and scope. It should start fairly quickly,” a defence source said.

The cost of training is being worked out. However, it will not be paid through the $500 million Line of Credit (LoC) extended by Delhi to Hanoi for defence procurements. 

“The terms and conditions of the LoC have been agreed upon. Vietnam has sought some concessions, to which we agreed. Some of it will be for modernisation of the existing equipment and the rest for new platforms,” sources said. An agreement would soon be signed by Exim Bank, after which the projects would be identified.

*MoU signed*

A programme for cooperation between the Air Forces was also signed. A senior official said that it covered a cross-section of activities, including training of pilots and exchange of experts. “Vietnam is interested in our experiences in repair and maintenance,” the official said.

A memorandum of understanding was signed on peacekeeping as well as exchange of delegations. Mr. Parrikar offered “India’s partnership as a reliable player in terms of transfer of technology and building a local defence industry”. The two Ministers were learnt to have discussed the regional situation and taken note of their converging interests.

Officials said Gen. Lich was positive on the progress made following Mr. Parrikar’s visit to Hanoi in June. Underscoring the importance of the visit, the Minister is being accompanied by a 30-member delegation, the largest so far to have accompanied him on a foreign visit. It includes the chiefs of the Air Force and the Navy and the Deputy Chief of General Staff.

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## Viet

*Closer India-Vietnam coop to contribute to region’s security: Narendra Modi*
Narendra Modi said Vietnam is a key pillar of India's Act East policy

Press Trust of India | Published: December 5, 2016 11:53 PM IST





Closer India-Vietnam coop to contribute to region's security: Narendra Modi


New Delhi, Dec 5: Closer cooperation between India and Vietnam in all sectors will contribute to the stability, security and prosperity of the entire region, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said today as he received Defence Minister of that country General Ngo Xuan Lich here.

During the meeting, Modi said Vietnam is a key pillar of India’s Act East policy, a PMO statement said. The Prime Minister noted that India and Vietnam have a longstanding and mutually beneficial relationship in the field of defence, and reiterated India’s resolve to strengthen defence ties further, it said.

He fondly recalled his visit to Vietnam in September this year, during which the bilateral relationship was upgraded to the level of a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership, the statement said. Lich briefed the Prime Minister on the progress achieved in bilateral defence cooperation.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> *India to train Vietnam’s Sukhoi fighter pilots*
> 
> 
> Dinakar Peri
> NEW DELHI: DECEMBER 06, 2016 02:40 IST
> 
> http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...m’s-Sukhoi-fighter-pilots/article16765719.ece
> 
> Rajeev Bhatt
> 
> In a further boost to its growing defence ties with Vietnam, India has agreed to train the southeast nation’s Sukhoi-30 fighter pilots.
> 
> The agreement was reached during bilateral discussions between Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Vietnamese counterpart, General Ngo Xuan Lich, here on Monday.
> 
> *Details under discussion*
> 
> India and Vietnam have been steadily stepping up their cooperation, especially in the defence sector, against the backdrop of the growing assertiveness of China in the region.
> 
> Bilateral ties recently received a further fillip when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Vietnam in September, on his way to the G-20 Summit in Guangzhou.
> 
> Both India and Vietnam operate Russian Su-30 jets and the two countries’ models differ slightly in their configuration.
> 
> India already trains Vietnamese sailors in operating Kilo class submarines, which Hanoi had begun inducting since January 2014. India operates over 200 Su-30MKI fighters and nine Kilo-class diesel electric submarines.
> 
> “Details are being worked out. Their pilots will be trained here. The two Air Forces will now sit and work out the numbers and scope. It should start fairly quickly,” a defence source said.
> 
> The cost of training is being worked out. However, it will not be paid through the $500 million Line of Credit (LoC) extended by Delhi to Hanoi for defence procurements.
> 
> “The terms and conditions of the LoC have been agreed upon. Vietnam has sought some concessions, to which we agreed. Some of it will be for modernisation of the existing equipment and the rest for new platforms,” sources said. An agreement would soon be signed by Exim Bank, after which the projects would be identified.
> 
> *MoU signed*
> 
> A programme for cooperation between the Air Forces was also signed. A senior official said that it covered a cross-section of activities, including training of pilots and exchange of experts. “Vietnam is interested in our experiences in repair and maintenance,” the official said.
> 
> A memorandum of understanding was signed on peacekeeping as well as exchange of delegations. Mr. Parrikar offered “India’s partnership as a reliable player in terms of transfer of technology and building a local defence industry”. The two Ministers were learnt to have discussed the regional situation and taken note of their converging interests.
> 
> Officials said Gen. Lich was positive on the progress made following Mr. Parrikar’s visit to Hanoi in June. Underscoring the importance of the visit, the Minister is being accompanied by a 30-member delegation, the largest so far to have accompanied him on a foreign visit. It includes the chiefs of the Air Force and the Navy and the Deputy Chief of General Staff.



Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.

Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.

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## Swordfish

AViet said:


> Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.
> 
> Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.





Time will tell you my friend from Vietnam. I am sure your assessment of IAF has been done on your your in depth research and years of investment you have done to do the great assessment by which you are saying "poor condition". 

Wait for the time to come you will get to know. Just for your information we have the SU30MKI from a decade now and our pilots have decent amount of flying hours under their belt to train some novice air force the nuances of flying.

But I leave the judgment with your fine wisdom.

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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.
> 
> Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.



First of all, the training in India is because VN is getting ready to buy SU-30SM which is a bit similar to what India has in many ways and that's the main reason for the training.

I can't say who is better since there is no external feedback about VN pilots, but Indian pilots are known to be very, very good and they have proven themselves in the Red Flag exercises in USA.

The subject of Indian training VN pilots came up many times recently in a variety of media, so for sure is not fake news.

I would assume that the Vietnamese air force knows better than you and me and they must have a good reason to train in India.

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## Shinigami

Carlosa said:


> First of all, the training in India is because VN is getting ready to buy SU-30SM which is a bit similar to what India has in many ways and that's the main reason for the training.
> 
> I can't say who is better since there is no external feedback about VN pilots, but Indian pilots are known to be very, very good and they have proven themselves in the Red Flag exrecises in USA.
> 
> The subject of Indian training VN pilots came up many times recently in a variety of media, so for sure is not fake news.
> 
> I would assume that the Vietnamese air force knows better than you and me and they must have a good reason to train in India.


before red flag exercises there was something called cope india

i have some links for that
http://forums.ubi.com/archive/index.php/t-530538.html

*The outcome of the exercise boils down to [the fact that] they ran tactics that were more advanced than we expected, Snowden says. India had developed its own air tactics somewhat in a vacuum. They had done some training with the French that we knew about, but we did not expect them to be a very well-trained air force.*


*"The Indian Air Force is a world-class air force with great aircraft, great pilots, and great leadership," said Capt. Marcus Wilson, an Aggressor pilot at Nellis and the team chief for the exercise.*
Code One Magazine: Building Friendships Volume 24 Number 1 2009

*Indian pilots have created their own combat techniques and proved to be very smart, flexible and adaptive. This was also not an expected fact because Western tactical experts used to stay on their vision of dealing with Russian style pilots with rigid tactics and no independent moves what so ever. All this matters combined points out the Indian fighters to a real considerable threat leaving the Western analysts and USAF Command thinking it over how credible their own weapons are.*
http://www.dutchaviationsupport.com/Articles/IL-78&#37;20MIDAS&Crousaders.pdf

*Indian AF Su-30K during the Cope India exercise. The Flanker's soundly defeated US Air Force F-15Cs during this exercise, exploiting not only superior BVR radar/missile capabilities, but also the TKS-2 datalink, used to network flights of Flankers*
ausairpower.net/flanker.html

*"We came rolling in, like, 'Beep-beep, superpower coming through,'" Colonel Fornof told me. "And we had our eyes opened. We learned a lot. By the third week, we were facing a threat that we weren't prepared to face, because we had underestimated them. They had figured out how to take Russian-built equipment and improve upon it."*
Black Hawk Down author Mark Bowden
Infamous YouTube star Fornof re-appears in pro-F-22 article - The DEW Line

*Indian planners combined the use of top-line fighters like this Su-30 with older types and impressive, innovative tactics.*
Credit: USAF TSGT. KEITH BROWN
Re:2004 &#166;~ 10 &#164;&#235;&#176;&#234;&#187;&#218;&#183;s&#187;D&#161;]&#170;&#197;&#173;x&#161;^

*"When we saw that they were a more professional air force, we realized that within the constraints of the exercise we were going to have a very difficult time," Snowden (A USAF senior pilot at cope india)says. "In general, it looked like they ran a broad spectrum of tactics and they were adaptive. They would analyze what we were doing and then try something else. They weren't afraid to bring the strikers in high or low. They would move them around so that we could never anticipate from day to day what we were going to see." *
_(Lost the source. Sorry.)_

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/iaf-pilots-among-the-best.27931/#ixzz4S3UaqV5W

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## Nike

The capacity and capability of Indian fighter pilot don't be mixed and judged with their maintenance problems, that's a whole lot different thing. They are among the ones with rigorous training schedule and the one with essential combat experiences span for more than five decade with the last one happened in and around 1999-2000 during Kargil conflict. They and Pakistan is actually among the best trained in South Asia and Central Asia.

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## Viet

AViet said:


> Indian to provide training to Vietnamese pilots. Laughable. You should check the source again.
> 
> Should be vice versa. Our pilots were among the world best and bravest. Given the poor conditions of India airforce, I would think the news is fake, just like any news from India about their "superpower" status.


I think you don´t understand Vietnam´s intention in cooperation with India. It is mostly due to strategic calculation, not getting training here and there in India, nor buying a certain ship or any missile type. Although not at level of China, but you should keep in mind, India is a nuclear armed. it has one of largest armies of the world, operating very similar weaponry we see in the Vietnamese armed forces: attack submarines and bomber fleets. I am not military expert nor having knowledge of the thing, but I would assume having our air and submarine assets operating in India controlled airspace and sea lanes, conducting joint patrol with India, increasing interoperability between the two armies are the main motives.

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## AViet

OK. Whatever, I do not want to discuss with some people. Give me a Vietnamese source.

Does anyone remember about India selling Brahmos to Vietnam, which have been around for at least 10 years. Aqsuperman, can you give us the proof, as you seem to be one of few professional ones about Vietnam military here.


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## Viet

Welcome to the Camranh bay: Frigate BRP Ramon Alcaraz of the Filipino navy

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## Silent Knight

AViet said:


> OK. Whatever, I do not want to discuss with some people. Give me a Vietnamese source.


How about an actual person that have deep connection with the VPAF, especially Su-30 regiments, i.e. me?

The reason to train in India is very simple.

Russia has taught Vietnam in operate these Su-30MK2V fighters, as in technical stuff and how to exploit the most from their flight envelope, or how to use certain weapon systems (mostly precision munitions). That's why we hired Russian test pilots like Sergei Bogdan or Yuri Vashchuk and not combat trainers in Lipetsk airbase.

Now the VPAF lacks combat experience with 4+ and 4++ gen fighters, as well as the necessary doctrine. Since IAF has the biggest Su-30 fleet, bigger than RuAF and PLAF combine, they have the most experience in operating them. Not to mention that India has participated in large exercises like Cope India or Red Flag.

Also, it might come in handy when we buy Su-30SM and/or Su-35S in the next 2-3 years.

You got me?

Andddddd, some ballsy low-level barrel roll for a change. Sea-skimming flights are so normal these days.

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## AViet

Thank you, Silent Knight. You are one of the few too.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Silent Knight said:


> India has agreed to transfer missile technology to Vietnam, as well as technical support until Vietnam can self-produce these missiles. The actual missiles are not mentioned, but BrahMos and Prithvi are high possibilities.
> 
> Also mentioned is some $500m in credit, as well as $100m to build new patrol ships for Vietnam.


Its high time Vietnam paid attention to tactical and strategic missiles.

If Vietnam joins MCTR, India can legally transfer far more restricted technologies.

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## Silent Knight

Syama Ayas said:


> Its high time Vietnam paid attention to tactical and strategic missiles.
> 
> If Vietnam joins MCTR, India can legally transfer far more restricted technologies.


We focused on air defense missiles, the lastest being SPYDER and 3M24UV systems, following our defensive doctrine. But maybe it's finally time to make some offensive ones for deterrent role.

As far as I concern, the MTCR only restricts the export of missile with longer than 300 km range and bigger than 500 kg warhead. It doesn't mention anything about technology transfer. I could be wrong though.

Incidentally, India has agreed to transfer missile technology to Vietnam, as well as technical support until Vietnam can self-produce these missiles.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Silent Knight said:


> We focused on air defense missiles, the lastest being SPYDER and 3M24UV systems, following our defensive doctrine. But maybe it's finally time to make some offensive ones for deterrent role.
> 
> As far as I concern, the MTCR only restricts the export of missile with longer than 300 km range and bigger than 500 kg warhead. It doesn't mention anything about technology transfer. I could be wrong though.
> 
> Incidentally, India has agreed to transfer missile technology to Vietnam, as well as technical support until Vietnam can self-produce these missiles.


MCTR restricts 94 critical technologies which range from propellants, warhead electronics, electronics not susceptible to EMP, seekers etc

http://mtcr.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf

Under MCTR pretext USA blocked Russian sale of a cryogenic engine to India



> As the India-Russian agreement was being put in place, the US, in July 1993, arm-twisted Russia into stalling the engine supply saying it flouted the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). The US sanctions on Isro and Glavkosmos were a huge setback to the GSLV programme.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lop-cryogenic-engine/articleshow/28449360.cms

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## Viet

Syama Ayas said:


> MCTR restricts 94 critical technologies which range from propellants, warhead electronics, electronics not susceptible to EMP, seekers etc
> 
> http://mtcr.info/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf
> 
> Under MCTR pretext USA blocked Russian sale of a cryogenic engine to India
> 
> 
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lop-cryogenic-engine/articleshow/28449360.cms


MCTR is a voluntary agreement. It is not a binding treaty. India can export any missile technology to Vietnam.

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## Silent Knight

Syama Ayas said:


> MCTR restricts 94 critical technologies which range from propellants, warhead electronics, electronics not susceptible to EMP, seekers etc


Hmm, we'll see how it play out in the long run.



> *6. Is the MTCR a treaty?*
> No. The MTCR is not a treaty and does not impose any legally binding obligations on Partners (members). Rather, it is an informal political understanding among states that seek to limit the proliferation of missiles and missile technology.


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## Viet

*Việt Nam, India bolster defence partnership*
Update: December, 06/2016 - 15:14






Việt Nam’s Defence Minister Ngô Xuân Lịch and his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar witness the signing of a co-operation agreement between the Việt Nam Air Defence and Air Force and the Indian Air Force in New Delhi. – VNA/VNS Photo


Viet Nam News
NEW DELHI – Việt Nam and India on Monday reiterated their desire to improve their bilateral defence co-operation for mutual benefit, peace, stability and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific region. 

During talks with India’s Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar in New Delhi, Defence Minister Ngô Xuân Lịch said India has always been a close, reliable friend and Việt Nam attaches great importance to their defence co-operation.

The friendship between the two nations was established by late President Hồ Chí Minh and late Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, and since then, the relationship has been nurtured, by generations of leaders and citizens.

People in Việt Nam remember India’s help in the cause of its Independence and reform, Lịch said. While India considers Việt Nam a key pillar in its Act East Policy, Việt Nam is also willing to serve as a bridge for India to develop ties with other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN). 

Raising bilateral defence collaboration to a new level will contribute to the comprehensive strategic partnership agreed by the top leaders in September, when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited the country.

Lịch and Parrikar expressed their pleasure at the bilateral collaboration in training, peace-keeping, strategies research and exchanges of ideas at multilateral forums, as well as the signing of a co-operation programme between the two countries’ peacekeeping centres and a joint exercise between Vietnamese marine police and Indian coast guard in October 2016. 

The Việt Nam People’s Navy and the Indian Navy have signed an agreement to share information on non-military marine services, while the Indian firm Larsen & Toubro has inked a contract to build patrol vessels for Việt Nam Coast Guard through the Indian government’s US$100-million credit package. 

The two ministers agreed on a number of issues, such as the implementation of a Joint Vision Statement on Việt Nam-India Defence Relations for the 2015-2020 period, which involves increasing all-level delegation exchanges, especially among young military officials, promoting deputy ministerial-level defence policy dialogue, and enhancing collaboration in training. 

India has pledged to help Việt Nam train officials, while Việt Nam has agreed to receive Indian students to study Vietnamese and open training courses for senior officials at the Việt Nam National Defence Academy. 

The two sides also highlighted the importance of naval co-operation to carry out search-and-rescue operations at sea and implement the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea. 

Both nations have agreed to entrust responsible bodies to complete necessary procedures to implement the $500 million credit package that Modi has offered Việt Nam to carry out joint projects in bilateral defence co-operation.

After talks, the ministers witnessed the signing of a co-operation agreement between the Việt Nam Air Defence and Air Force and the Indian Air Force. 

A roundtable conference was also held the same day to discuss bilateral co-operation between defence enterprises of both countries.

Defence Minister Lịch will end his four-day visit to India tomorrow. – VNS

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## hoangsa74

TenLua said:


> You think those state of the art passenger aircraft just randomly fall out of the sky with important people on board? So naive. These aircraft (boeing) are equipped with devices planted by the cia that will render hydraulics, fuel systems, etc....useless. You honestly believe they can't find a 300 million dollar aircraft when they can locate the pubic hair on your nuts? Don't be foolish.
> 
> Think about it. Why the sudden change of heart when they decided to sell weapons to Vietnam? Because they know when it comes to it, they can locate and destroy the equiment you bought from them without ever leaving the war room.
> 
> The American people know all about it. They know their own government do not care about them. They know.


The Russian will disable your jets in mid air and reveal the location of your 6 submarines for $400 billion dollars worth of oil and gas deal with the Chinese in a heart beat. Only a fool would believe the russki would sabotage $400 billion deal selling oil and gas to the Chinese for a chump change of a few billions selling submarines to Vietnam.

idiots!


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## TenLua

hoangsa74 said:


> The Russian will disable your jets in mid air and reveal the location of your 6 submarines for $400 billion dollars worth of oil and gas deal with the Chinese in a heart beat. Only a fool would believe the russki would sabotage $400 billion deal selling oil and gas to the Chinese for a chump change of a few billions selling submarines to Vietnam.
> 
> idiots!



LOL china is a nonissue. On any level. Sure they have an oil rig floating around, good for target practice. The US armed forces are bank owned now. They're used to topple non-compliance towards central banker.

I doubt you would pick up arms to defend the USA. Your fair weather loyalty, I see it.


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## Silent Knight

Looks like our favorite troll/idiot/butthurt boy has come back.

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## Aqsuperman

Well things do take turn here, if its not some Chinese barging in and pretend to win over imaginary argument then we have Ducanger with their pathetic rant. If his super duper logic work then South Vietnam would have not gone down in flame Gotta love how people think their way of thinking is wise when its real life result has back fire them in the face, probably President Putin or Trump should hire him as their personal adviser or situation analyst


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## hoangsa74

Syama Ayas said:


> Its high time Vietnam paid attention to tactical and strategic missiles.
> 
> If Vietnam joins MCTR, India can legally transfer far more restricted technologies.


BM is too big for them. india should first help them produce shoulder-launched missiles. They're still miserably assembling the igla from kits supplied by the russki


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## Carlosa

*SOUTH CHINA SEA EQUATION*
Wednesday, 07 December 2016 |
http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/edit/south-china-sea-equation.html



Growing India-Vietnam ties good for the region

In what can be called an upgradation of defence ties between India and Vietnam, both the countries, represented by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and his Vietnamese counterpart General Ngo Xuan Lich, inked a long-pending deal this week, where India agreed to coach 30 Vietnamese Air Force pilots to fly Sukhoi fighter jets. This is the second such training exercise between the two countries. Indian forces have successfully trained Vietnamese submariners to operate Russian-built Kilo-class submarines. Bilateral ties between India and Vietnam are traditional and historic. Since time immemorial, India has stood by Vietnam in times of crises — be it during the Liberation War against the United States in the 1960s and 1970s; or when Beijing declared military intervention against it in 1979, which propelled Atal Bihari Vajpayee to cut short his China visit in protest. India has since then been consistent in its support to Vietnam — diplomatically, politically and morally. The bonding between the two countries grew by leaps and bounds, so much so that from just providing political and diplomatic support, they entered into trade agreements in defence and security cooperation. With the Modi Government assuming power, the relation reached new heights as bilateral ties were upgraded — from “strategic partnership” to “comprehensive strategic partnership”. There have been several high-level visits since then. The most historic of them was when Prime Minister Narendra Modi, during his visit to the G20 summit in China, made a short trip to Vietnam to sign numerous agreements, especially on defence and security sectors. Military engagements now include sale of hardware, intelligence-gathering and exchange, training in warfare etc.

But there must be a reason for the recent increased focus on arms sales and defence cooperation between New Delhi and Hanoi. And it's not just India, but Japan and the US too have found strategic congruence with Vietnam. The ‘China factor' has been the common thread which has propelled the three countries to increase diplomatic outreach to Vietnam. New Delhi and Hanoi have their concerns — both are on the same page as far as China's assertiveness in the Asia Pacific region is concerned. Vietnam is engaged in a bitter territorial dispute with the Middle Kingdom over navigation rights in the South China Sea and wants India, along with Japan and the US, to stand up to the Chinese threat. India’s concern on the other hand, has to do with China taking control of some of the world's busiest sea lanes where it is engaged in oil exploration activities. China, of course, is not happy with the new India-Vietnam bonhomie and warily eyeing the development. In view of the rising defence needs, it is important that both India and Vietnam nurture the ties further for mutual benefits. Nevertheless, India must not get bogged down. Remember, Vietnam may have strained political equations with China, but it also has a robust trade relation.

---------------------------------------



hoangsa74 said:


> The Russian will disable your jets in mid air and reveal the location of your 6 submarines for $400 billion dollars worth of oil and gas deal with the Chinese in a heart beat. Only a fool would believe the russki would sabotage $400 billion deal selling oil and gas to the Chinese for a chump change of a few billions selling submarines to Vietnam.
> 
> idiots!










hoangsa74 said:


> BM is too big for them. india should first help them produce shoulder-launched missiles. They're still miserably assembling the igla from kits supplied by the russki

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> The Russian will disable your jets in mid air and reveal the location of your 6 submarines for $400 billion dollars worth of oil and gas deal with the Chinese in a heart beat. Only a fool would believe the russki would sabotage $400 billion deal selling oil and gas to the Chinese for a chump change of a few billions selling submarines to Vietnam.
> 
> idiots!


what happens if the Russians take Chinese money, say thank you and we share 50-50?

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## Viet

already posted in sis mado thread 

a mix of old and new. imported plus domestic items, voila Vietnam made half automatic radar guided 37 mm anti aircraft artillery. all control units (radar, communications system, target finder, night vision gear) are packed in a special truck. with early warning radar detecting targets 40 km far away.

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## Viet




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## William Hung

Future of the Vietnamese Defense Industry - Market Attractiveness, Competitive Landscape and Forecasts to 2021


http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...andscape-and-forecasts-to-2021-300374190.html


The full report discussed something about a 5000+ ton frigate from EU.

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## Silent Knight

William Hung said:


> Future of the Vietnamese Defense Industry - Market Attractiveness, Competitive Landscape and Forecasts to 2021
> 
> 
> http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...andscape-and-forecasts-to-2021-300374190.html
> 
> 
> The full report discussed something about a 5000+ ton frigate from EU.


* cough * F-125 * cough *

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## Viet

I believe the frequency of foreign warships visiting to the *Camranh Bay* has increased. ROK warships return to the bay. South Korean destroyer Chungmugong Yi Sunshi and an accompanied supporting vessel, under command of Rear Admiral Lee Sang Hoon, pay a visit to Vietnam Navy. is there anything we should know?


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## Viet

Has a Viet army delegation visited the UK defence ministry recently? more guests are expected to the South China sea party. the British ambassador to the United States Kim Darroch said the UK wanting to deploy *Typhoon* fighter jets to the troubled waters next year 2017 and the brand new multi billion dollar aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth with *F35-B *aboard by 2020.

_





_
I like it. we may see them in the Bay soon. the more guests the better the party 
_*



*_
*







*

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## Viet

South China Sea | Thu Dec 8, 2016 | 5:13am EST
*Exclusive: Risking Beijing's ire, Vietnam begins dredging on South China Sea reef*








A combination photograph shows a land bridge (top) on a North Island, near Tree Island and Woody Island in the Paracel chain, in the South China Sea on September 10, 2016 and a view of the same bridge destroyed, on November 14, 2016 in these handouts released by Planet Labs on November 30, 2016. Trevor Hammond/Planet Labs/Handout via REUTERS












Sand can be seen spilling from a newly dredged channel in this view of Vietnamese-held Ladd Reef, in the Spratly Island group in the South China Sea, November 30, 2016, in this Planet Labs handout photo received by Reuters on December 6, 2016. Trevor Hammond/Planet Labs/Handout via Reuters



By Lincoln Feast and Greg Torode | SYDNEY/HONG KONG

SYDNEY/HONG KONG Vietnam has begun dredging work on a disputed reef in the South China Sea, satellite imagery shows, the latest move by the Communist state to bolster its claims in the strategic waterway.

Activity visible on Ladd Reef in the Spratly Islands could anger Hanoi's main South China Sea rival, Beijing, which claims sovereignty over the group and most of the resource-rich sea.

Ladd Reef, on the south-western fringe of the Spratlys, is completely submerged at high tide but has a lighthouse and an outpost housing a small contingent of Vietnamese soldiers. The reef is also claimed by Taiwan. In an image taken on Nov. 30 and provided by U.S.-based satellite firm Planet Labs, several vessels can be seen in a newly dug channel between the lagoon and open sea. While the purpose of the activity cannot be determined for certain, analysts say similar dredging work has been the precursor to more extensive construction on other reefs.

"We can see that, in this environment, *Vietnam's strategic mistrust is total* ... and they are rapidly improving their defences," said Trevor Hollingsbee, a retired naval intelligence analyst with Britain's defence ministry.

"They're doing everything they can to fix any vulnerabilities - and that outpost at Ladd Reef does look a vulnerability."

Reuters reported in August that Vietnam had fortified several islands with mobile rocket artillery launchers capable of striking China's holdings across the vital trade route. Vietnam's foreign ministry did not respond to a request for comment. The vessels at Ladd Reef cannot be identified in the images, but Vietnam would be extremely unlikely to allow another country to challenge its control of the reef.

Greg Poling, a South China Sea expert at Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), said it remained unclear how far the work on Ladd Reef would go. Rather than a reclamation and a base, it could be an attempt to simply boost access for supply ships and fishing boats.

Ladd could also theoretically play a role in helping to defend Vietnam's nearby holding of Spratly Island, where a runway is being improved and new hangars built, he said.

"Vietnam's knows it can't compete with China but it does want to improve its ability to keep an eye on them," Poling said.

Vietnam has long been fearful of renewed Chinese military action to drive it off its 21 holdings in the Spratlys - worries that have escalated amid Beijing's build-up and its anger at the recent Philippines legal action challenging its claims. China occupied its first Spratlys possessions after a sea battle against Vietnam's then weak navy in 1988. Vietnam said 64 soldiers were killed as they tried to protect a flag on South Johnson reef - an incident still acutely felt in Hanoi. 


*BUILDING BURST*

The United States has repeatedly called on claimants to avoid actions that increase tensions in the South China Sea, through which some $5 trillion in world trade is shipped every year. Vietnam has emerged as China's main rival in the South China Sea, actively asserting sovereignty over both the Paracel and the Spratly groupings in their entirety and undergoing its own naval modernisation. Taiwan also claims both, but its position is historically aligned with Beijing's. 

The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, run by the CSIS, says Vietnam has added about 120 acres (49 hectares) of land to its South China Sea holdings in recent years. Regional military attaches say Vietnam's key holdings are well fortified, some with tunnels and bunkers, appearing geared to deterring easy invasion.

Vietnam's reclamation work remains modest by Chinese standards, however.

The United States, which has criticized China for militarizing the waterway, estimates Beijing has added more than 3,200 acres (1,300 hectares) of land on seven features in the South China Sea over the past three years, building runways, ports, aircraft hangars and communications equipment.

Beijing says it is entitled to "limited and necessary self-defensive facilities" on its territory and has reacted angrily to "freedom of navigation" operations by U.S. warships near Chinese-held islands.


*CHINESE RECLAMATION WORK DAMAGED*

In another image provided by Planet Labs, reclamation work in the Chinese-held Paracel Island chain appears to have been damaged by recent storms. China began dredging and land filling earlier this year at North Island, about 12 km (7 miles) north of Woody Island, where it has a large military base and this year stationed surface-to-air missiles.

Satellite images in February and March showed dredging vessels working to build a 700 meter (2,300 ft) sand bridge connecting low-lying North Island with neighboring Middle Island. But images taken after two powerful storms spun through the region in October show the narrow sand strip has been largely swept away. 

The Paracels have been under Chinese control for more than 40 years after a battle towards the end of the Vietnam War, when Chinese forces removed the then-South Vietnamese navy. Analysts say they play a key part in protecting China's nuclear armed submarine fleet on Hainan Island, to the north.

China has not commented publicly on the work at North Island and the foreign ministry did not respond to requests for comment.



(Additional reporting by Martin Petty and Ben Blanchard; Editing by Alex Richardson)

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## Viet

Donald Trump is elected by Time as Person of the Year. Congrats. An interesting article of the New York Times reveals Donald Trump selects some key men for the cabinet, that endorse TPP: Terry Branstad, nominated as ambassador to China. James Mattis, as Chief of the Pentagon. David Petraeus, as Secretary of State. Mike Pence, as Vice President. TPP, an evil pact that he threatens to stop at day 1 in office. as Trump is a man of big business, I won´t wonder if he resurrects the pact under a new name with the same content. maybe not on day 2 but some weeks later after a shame period. and that is not necessary a bad news for Vietnam.







http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/...ffing-his-administration-with-tpp-supporters/


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Has a Viet army delegation visited the UK defence ministry recently? more guests are expected to the South China sea party. the British ambassador to the United States Kim Darroch said the UK wanting to deploy *Typhoon* fighter jets to the troubled waters next year 2017 and the brand new multi billion dollar aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth with *F35-B *aboard by 2020.
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> I like it. we may see them in the Bay soon. the more guests the better the party
> _*
> 
> 
> 
> *_
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Sink them all now so Vietnam don't have to do it later.


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## vtnsx

Viet said:


> South China Sea | Thu Dec 8, 2016 | 5:13am EST
> *Exclusive: Risking Beijing's ire, Vietnam begins dredging on South China Sea reef*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A combination photograph shows a land bridge (top) on a North Island, near Tree Island and Woody Island in the Paracel chain, in the South China Sea on September 10, 2016 and a view of the same bridge destroyed, on November 14, 2016 in these handouts released by Planet Labs on November 30, 2016. Trevor Hammond/Planet Labs/Handout via REUTERS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sand can be seen spilling from a newly dredged channel in this view of Vietnamese-held Ladd Reef, in the Spratly Island group in the South China Sea, November 30, 2016, in this Planet Labs handout photo received by Reuters on December 6, 2016. Trevor Hammond/Planet Labs/Handout via Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> By Lincoln Feast and Greg Torode | SYDNEY/HONG KONG
> 
> SYDNEY/HONG KONG Vietnam has begun dredging work on a disputed reef in the South China Sea, satellite imagery shows, the latest move by the Communist state to bolster its claims in the strategic waterway.
> 
> Activity visible on Ladd Reef in the Spratly Islands could anger Hanoi's main South China Sea rival, Beijing, which claims sovereignty over the group and most of the resource-rich sea.
> 
> Ladd Reef, on the south-western fringe of the Spratlys, is completely submerged at high tide but has a lighthouse and an outpost housing a small contingent of Vietnamese soldiers. The reef is also claimed by Taiwan. In an image taken on Nov. 30 and provided by U.S.-based satellite firm Planet Labs, several vessels can be seen in a newly dug channel between the lagoon and open sea. While the purpose of the activity cannot be determined for certain, analysts say similar dredging work has been the precursor to more extensive construction on other reefs.
> 
> "We can see that, in this environment, *Vietnam's strategic mistrust is total* ... and they are rapidly improving their defences," said Trevor Hollingsbee, a retired naval intelligence analyst with Britain's defence ministry.
> 
> "They're doing everything they can to fix any vulnerabilities - and that outpost at Ladd Reef does look a vulnerability."
> 
> Reuters reported in August that Vietnam had fortified several islands with mobile rocket artillery launchers capable of striking China's holdings across the vital trade route. Vietnam's foreign ministry did not respond to a request for comment. The vessels at Ladd Reef cannot be identified in the images, but Vietnam would be extremely unlikely to allow another country to challenge its control of the reef.
> 
> Greg Poling, a South China Sea expert at Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), said it remained unclear how far the work on Ladd Reef would go. Rather than a reclamation and a base, it could be an attempt to simply boost access for supply ships and fishing boats.
> 
> Ladd could also theoretically play a role in helping to defend Vietnam's nearby holding of Spratly Island, where a runway is being improved and new hangars built, he said.
> 
> "Vietnam's knows it can't compete with China but it does want to improve its ability to keep an eye on them," Poling said.
> 
> Vietnam has long been fearful of renewed Chinese military action to drive it off its 21 holdings in the Spratlys - worries that have escalated amid Beijing's build-up and its anger at the recent Philippines legal action challenging its claims. China occupied its first Spratlys possessions after a sea battle against Vietnam's then weak navy in 1988. Vietnam said 64 soldiers were killed as they tried to protect a flag on South Johnson reef - an incident still acutely felt in Hanoi.
> 
> 
> *BUILDING BURST*
> 
> The United States has repeatedly called on claimants to avoid actions that increase tensions in the South China Sea, through which some $5 trillion in world trade is shipped every year. Vietnam has emerged as China's main rival in the South China Sea, actively asserting sovereignty over both the Paracel and the Spratly groupings in their entirety and undergoing its own naval modernisation. Taiwan also claims both, but its position is historically aligned with Beijing's.
> 
> The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, run by the CSIS, says Vietnam has added about 120 acres (49 hectares) of land to its South China Sea holdings in recent years. Regional military attaches say Vietnam's key holdings are well fortified, some with tunnels and bunkers, appearing geared to deterring easy invasion.
> 
> Vietnam's reclamation work remains modest by Chinese standards, however.
> 
> The United States, which has criticized China for militarizing the waterway, estimates Beijing has added more than 3,200 acres (1,300 hectares) of land on seven features in the South China Sea over the past three years, building runways, ports, aircraft hangars and communications equipment.
> 
> Beijing says it is entitled to "limited and necessary self-defensive facilities" on its territory and has reacted angrily to "freedom of navigation" operations by U.S. warships near Chinese-held islands.
> 
> 
> *CHINESE RECLAMATION WORK DAMAGED*
> 
> In another image provided by Planet Labs, reclamation work in the Chinese-held Paracel Island chain appears to have been damaged by recent storms. China began dredging and land filling earlier this year at North Island, about 12 km (7 miles) north of Woody Island, where it has a large military base and this year stationed surface-to-air missiles.
> 
> Satellite images in February and March showed dredging vessels working to build a 700 meter (2,300 ft) sand bridge connecting low-lying North Island with neighboring Middle Island. But images taken after two powerful storms spun through the region in October show the narrow sand strip has been largely swept away.
> 
> The Paracels have been under Chinese control for more than 40 years after a battle towards the end of the Vietnam War, when Chinese forces removed the then-South Vietnamese navy. Analysts say they play a key part in protecting China's nuclear armed submarine fleet on Hainan Island, to the north.
> 
> China has not commented publicly on the work at North Island and the foreign ministry did not respond to requests for comment.
> 
> 
> 
> (Additional reporting by Martin Petty and Ben Blanchard; Editing by Alex Richardson)




hahahaha, I was right and some other person were right about the storm going to wipe out those Chinese man-made islands. You never go again'st mother nature. But the Chinese are god, so they will continue to go against mother nature.

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## BoQ77

In Hanoi 7-8 Dec. 2016 The Homeland Security Expo happened for the first time

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> In Hanoi 7-8 Dec. 2016 The Homeland Security Expo happened for the first time



Welcome back, long time no see

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Sink them all now so Vietnam don't have to do it later.


sink whom? Remember Vietnam is a pacifist country 



vtnsx said:


> hahahaha, I was right and some other person were right about the storm going to wipe out those Chinese man-made islands. You never go again'st mother nature. But the Chinese are god, so they will continue to go against mother nature.


bro those are vietnam made pileup of sands turning reefs to islands. our people shall increase using steel and concrete making more stable structures.



BoQ77 said:


> In Hanoi 7-8 Dec. 2016 The Homeland Security Expo happened for the first time


Also from me, welcome back

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## BoQ77

Carlosa said:


> Welcome back, long time no see


3 months

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## Viet

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-other-agreements/articleshow/55905769.cmsPTI | 
*India, Vietnam sign nuclear pact, three other agreements*
Updated: Dec 10, 2016, 10.55 AM IST





Lok Sabha Speaker Sumitra Mahajan and her Vietnam's counterpart.


NEW DELHI: In a significant development, India and influential East Asian nation Vietnam on Friday signed a civil nuclear cooperation agreement, with Prime Minister Narendra Modi asserting that it will further strengthen the comprehensive strategic partnership between the two countries.

The two countries also signed three other agreements — to enhance aviation links, to jointly work in the area of energy efficiency and promotion of parliamentary cooperation.

The four pacts, aimed at boosting the relations, were signed here in presence of Lok Sabha Speaker Sumitra Mahajan and visiting President of Vietnam's National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan.

Ngan, who is leading a Vietnamese Parliamentary delegation, also met the Prime Minister who said the Agreement on Cooperation in Peaceful Uses of Atomic Energy "will further strengthen the comprehensive strategic partnership between India and Vietnam."

Modi recalled his earlier meeting with Ngan in Hanoi during his visit to Vietnam in September. He said that Ngan, as the first woman to head the National Assembly of Vietnam, is a source of inspiration to women across the world.







Modi welcomed increased Parliamentary interactions between India and Vietnam, and called for instituting an exchange programme for young parliamentarians of the two countries.

Cooperation Agreement between the Lok Sabha of the Republic of India and the National Assembly of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. The civil nuclear agreement with Vietnam, an influential East Asian nation, comes close on the heels of India signing a similar pact with Japan.

Vietnam is the 14th country with which India signed the civil nuclear deal.

From the Indian side, the MoU on civil nuclear cooperation was signed by Sekhar Basu, Secretary of Department of Atomic Energy, while Pham Cong Tac, Deputy Minister of Science and Technology, signed it from the Vietnamese side. The two countries had earlier in 1986 signed a pact in the civil nuclear field which was limited to training. However, the new agreement is broadbased and encompasses research on nuclear reactors, sources said.

The cooperation in research on nuclear reactors will get activated once India gets membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, they added.

An MoU on 'Promotion of traffic between Vietnam and India and sharing of best practices in airline operation, ground handling procedure and management' was also signed between Air India and Vietjet Aviation Joint Stock Company.

Energy Efficiency Services Limited (EESL), a PSU under the Power Ministry, and Vietnam Electricity (EVN) signed an MoU on 'Developing a Partnership to Jointly Work in the Area of Energy Efficiency'. It was signed by Satish C Mehta, Senior Advisor in EESL, and Duong Quang Thanh, Chairman of Vietnam Electricity.

Mahajan said the Agreement on Cooperation in Peaceful Uses of Nuclear Energy is a "remarkable development" and a "testimony to two countries' willingness to give greater substance to their recently upgraded Comprehensive Strategic Partnership."

The Speaker pitched for enhanced engagement between the two countries and specified sectors like defence, security, energy, exploration, non conventional energy as some of the key areas of mutual benefit.

"India and Vietnam can mutually benefit from each other's strength," she said.

Referring to South China Sea over which China is laying an absolute claim and is in confrontation with Vietnam and some other East Asian countries, Mahajan said India has persistently maintained that sea lanes of communication passing through that maritime area are critical for peace, stability, prosperity and development.

She recalled India's statement following the recent award of Arbitral Tribunal on South China Sea issue and reiterated its known position for resolving disputes through peaceful means without threat or use of force and by exercising self- restraint in the conduct of activities that could complicate or escalate disputes affecting peace and stability.

"As a State Party to the UNCLOS (UN Convention on the Law of the Sea), India has called on all parties to show utmost respect for the UNCLOS, which establishes the international legal order of the seas and oceans," Mahajan said. "Vietnam is playing an increasingly important role in global economic affairs," the Speaker said, according to a press release issued by the Lok Sabha Secretariat.

With India's 'Look East' policy evolving into an 'Act East' policy, this region has assumed even greater importance in India's strategic thinking and economic engagement, she said.

India would like to work with the country to further strengthen the trend of shared values of democracy, pluralism, openness and inclusiveness to become the mainstay of international relations, Mahajan added. She hailed the "exceptional economic rise of Vietnam by grit and hard work coupled by its warm and friendly people" and said it is indeed inspiring and heart-warming. Noting that India and Vietnam have a healthy tradition of parliamentary exchanges and cooperation, she said this visit has added to the ever-growing friendship and goodwill between our two countries and their peoples.

"The Parliament of India looks forward to sustaining this momentum," she told the Vietnamese delegation which witnessed proceedings of the Rajya Sabha earlier in the day. Mahajan recalled Modi's visit to Vietnam in September and noted that the two Prime Ministers have decided to elevate bilateral 'Strategic Partnership' initiated in 2007 to a 'Comprehensive Strategic Partnership'.

Ngan thanked the Speaker for the warm traditional hospitality extended to her delegation and hoped that the ongoing visit will further consolidate and strengthen bilateral relations between the two countries.


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## TenLua

Please go to VOAT pizzgate. Look at the evidence. The world elite is trying to cover this up. Do ti for the sake of your children.


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## Viet

*Future of the Vietnamese Defense Industry - Market Attractiveness, Competitive Landscape and Forecasts to 2021 *

News provided by

*ReportBuyer* 
Dec 06, 2016, 20:38 ET

LONDON, Dec. 6, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- *Summary*

The Future of the Vietnamese Defense Industry - Market Attractiveness, Competitive Landscape and Forecasts to 2021, published by Strategic Defence Intelligence, provides readers with detailed analysis of both historic and forecast defense industry values, factors influencing demand, the challenges faced by industry participants, analysis of industry leading companies, and key news.

*Key Findings
*
- Vietnam is one of the fastest growing defense spenders in the world, with a military budget valued at US$5 billion in 2016. Between 2012-2016 Vietnamese defense budget grew fromUS$3.3 billion in 2012 to US$5 billion in 2016, registering a CAGR of 10.95%. 

- On a cumulative basis, the country is expected to invest US$32.1 billion for defense purposes, of which US$10.7 billion is earmarked for capital expenditure to fund defense procurements. The government's well-defined military modernization plans along with its efforts to bolster its military capabilities as a means to counter Chinese aggression in South China Sea region is anticipated to drive spending. 

- The MoD is expected to invest in Military-IT (Networking), Infrastructure Construction, MRO facilities for frigate maintenance and SSK-diesel electric submarine over the coming years.


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## Viet

Ladd Reef midst of the ocean, usually submerged in high tide, having a group of Marines protecting the holding against uninvited guests.






the reef may become the largest island: 6 km in length, 2 km in width, with a total area of 1,000 ha. though I think we will build more useful installations than a soccer field on it as a certain neighbor does


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## vtnsx

TenLua said:


> Please go to VOAT pizzgate. Look at the evidence. The world elite is trying to cover this up. Do ti for the sake of your children.



So many crazyness happening in the US right now. With CNN, Hillary and the CIA corruptions being exposed!


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## Carlosa

vtnsx said:


> So many crazyness happening in the US right now. With CNN, Hillary and the CIA corruptions being exposed!



The whole establishment is getting exposed, I love it. He is attacking the F-35 program now and he is right, the whole thing is a waste and the whole military procurement process is rigged, the buyers at the pentagon make sweetheart deals for the defence companies, after which, they quit their jobs at the pentagon and go to work for the defence companies as a reward. That's nothing less than legalised corruption and Trump is exposing that. He is going to ban military buyers for life for going to work for defense contractors. Their free ride is over.

@gambit Hey man, as a military man that you are, I would love to hear what do you think about all these events. Thank you in advance and take care.

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## Aqsuperman

Armored, anti-armor and anti-aircraft units.


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## Silent Knight

Apparently the defense spending in 2017 will reach 5.5 billion $.

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## Carlosa

*U.S. ready to confront Beijing on South China Sea: admiral*
By Colin Packham

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-ready-confront-beijing-south-china-sea-admiral-044649089.html?ref=gs

SYDNEY (Reuters) - The United States is ready to confront China should it continue its overreaching maritime claims in the South China Sea, the head of the U.S. Pacific fleet said on Wednesday, comments that threaten to escalate tensions between the two global rivals.

China claims most of the resource-rich South China Sea through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Neighbors Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

The United States has called on China to respect the findings of arbitration court in The Hague earlier this year which invalidated its vast territorial claims in the strategic waterway.

But Beijing continues to act in an "aggressive" manner, to which the United States stands ready to respond, Admiral Harry Harris, head of the U.S. Pacific Command, said in a speech in Sydney.

"We will not allow a shared domain to be closed down unilaterally no matter how many bases are built on artificial features in the South China Sea," he said. "We will cooperate when we can but we will be ready to confront when we must."

The comments threaten to stoke tensions between the United States and China, already heightened by President-elect Donald Trump's decision to accept a telephone call from Taiwan's president on Dec. 2 that prompted a diplomatic protest from Beijing.

The United States estimates Beijing has added more than 3,200 acres (1,300 hectares) of land on seven features in the South China Sea over the past three years, building runways, ports, aircraft hangars and communications equipment.

In response, the United States has conducted a series of freedom-of-navigation operations in the South China Sea, the latest of which came in October.

The patrols have angered Beijing, with a senior Chinese official in July warning the practice may end in "disaster".

Harris said it was a decision for the Australian government whether the U.S. ally should undertake its own freedom-of-navigation operations, but said the United States would continue with the practice.

"The U.S. fought its first war following our independence to ensure freedom of navigation," said Harris. "This is an enduring principle and one of the reasons our forces stand ready to fight tonight."

(Editing by Lincoln Feast)


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## TenLua

vtnsx said:


> So many crazyness happening in the US right now. With CNN, Hillary and the CIA corruptions being exposed!



It's all doctored to fit their narrative. They're just buying time with trump elected as president.


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## Carlosa

*Exclusive: China installs weapons systems on artificial islands - U.S. think tank*




By David Brunnstrom
ReutersDecember 14, 2016

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusiv...ms-artificial-islands-u-140752120.html?ref=gs




View photos
A satellite image shows what CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative says appears to be anti-aircraft guns and what are likely to be close-in weapons systems (CIWS) on the artificial island Subi Reef in the South China Sea in this image released on December 13, 2016. Courtesy CSIS Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative/DigitalGlobe/Handout via REUTERS
By David Brunnstrom

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - China appears to have installed weapons, including anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems, on all seven of the artificial islands it has built in the South China Sea, a U.S. think tank reported on Wednesday, citing new satellite imagery.

The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) said its findings come despite statements by the Chinese leadership that Beijing has no intention to militarize the islands in the strategic trade route, where territory is claimed by several countries.

AMTI said it had been tracking construction of hexagonal structures on Fiery Cross, Mischief and Subi reefs in the Spratly Islands since June and July. China has already built military length airstrips on these islands.

"It now seems that these structures are an evolution of point-defense fortifications already constructed at China’s smaller facilities on Gaven, Hughes, Johnson, and Cuarteron reefs," it said citing images taken in November and made available to Reuters.

"This model has gone through another evolution at (the) much-larger bases on Fiery Cross, Subi and Mischief reefs."

Satellite images of Hughes and Gaven reefs showed what appeared to be anti-aircraft guns and what were likely to be close-in weapons systems (CIWS) to protect against cruise missile strikes, it said.

Images from Fiery Cross Reef showed towers that likely contained targeting radar, it said.

AMTI said covers had been installed on the towers at Fiery Cross, but the size of platforms on these and the covers suggested they concealed defense systems similar to those at the smaller reefs.

"These gun and probable CIWS emplacements show that Beijing is serious about defense of its artificial islands in case of an armed contingency in the South China Sea," it said.

"Among other things, they would be the last line of defense against cruise missiles launched by the United States or others against these soon-to-be-operational air bases."

AMTI director Greg Poling said AMTI had spent months trying to figure out what the purposes of the structures was.

"This is the first time that we're confident in saying they are anti-aircraft and CIWS emplacements. We did not know that they had systems this big and this advanced there," he told Reuters.

"This is militarization. The Chinese can argue that it's only for defensive purposes, but if you are building giant anti-aircraft gun and CIWS emplacements, it means that you are prepping for a future conflict.

"They keep saying they are not militarizing, but they could deploy fighter jets and surface-to-air missiles tomorrow if they wanted to," he said. "Now they have all the infrastructure in place for these interlocking rings of defense and power projection."The report said the installations would likely back up a defensive umbrella provided by a future deployment of mobile surface-to-air missile (SAM) platforms like the HQ-9 system deployed to Woody Island in the Paracel Islands, farther to the north in the South China Sea.

It forecast that such a deployment could happen "at any time," noting a recent Fox News report that components for SAM systems have been spotted at the southeastern Chinese port of Jieyang, possibly destined for the South China Sea.

China has said military construction on the islands will be limited to necessary defensive requirements.

The United States has criticized what it called China's militarization of its maritime outposts and stressed the need for freedom of navigation by conducting periodic air and naval patrols near them that have angered Beijing.

U.S. President-elect Donald Trump, who takes office on Jan. 20, has also criticized Chinese behavior in the South China Sea while signaling he may adopt a tougher approach to China's assertive behavior in the region than President Barack Obama.

(Reporting by David Brunnstrom; Editing by Lisa Shumaker)


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## Aqsuperman

Assets of the VPN. Some are still ex-ROVN with somewhat adequate ammunition and parts for the tasks at hands.

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## BoQ77

Last update 14:32 | 15/12/2016
 0

USS Mustin arrives in Cam Ranh International Port
_VietNamNet Bridge - The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Mustin (DDG 89) arrived in Cam Ranh International Port in Khanh Hoa province today for a routine technical stop that highlights the strong historic, community, and military connections between Vietnam and the United States. _


_



_



During the stop, sailors from the USS Mustin will have a chance to meet with people from Nha Trang to share U.S. culture through sporting events. U.S. sailors will also learn about Vietnam through local cultural activities. 

“Mustin’s Sailors are excited to contribute to our partnership with Vietnam, knowing how important our relationship is to our mutual interests in peace, stability, and adherence to a rules-based international order. And of course, we’re really looking forward to experiencing Vietnam’s renowned hospitality, and exploring the great city of Nha Trang,” said Cmdr. Thane Clare, commanding officer of the USS Mustin. 

“The USS Mustin’s stop in Cam Ranh International Port is an example of the depth of our comprehensive partnership and the importance of strengthening our civilian and military ties,” said U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius. 

USS Mustin, on patrol from Yokosuka, Japan, sails with a crew of 300 sailors and routinely operates throughout the Indo-Asia-Pacific.

_PV_

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## Carlosa

*Trump tells Vietnam prime minister he hopes ties will grow stronger*
By My Pham

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-tells-vietnam-prime-minister-hopes-ties-grow-051524450.html

HANOI (Reuters) - In a telephone call, U.S. President-elect Donald Trump told Vietnam's prime minister he wanted to further strengthen fast-warming ties between the two countries, the government of the Southeast Asian nation said on Thursday.

Vietnam has advanced ties with the United States to a new level under the Obama administration as it faces down communist neighbor China's challenge to its territorial claims in the busy waterway of the South China Sea.

During Wednesday's conversation, Vietnamese premier Nguyen Xuan Phuc congratulated Trump on his election win and stressed the importance of maintaining friendship and cooperation.

"President-elect Trump spoke highly of the achievements of Vietnam, as well as the positive developments in bilateral ties," Vietnam's government said on its news website.

"He also asserted his wish to cooperate with Vietnam to accelerate the relationship between the two countries."

Trump has had conversations with several leaders of countries locked in maritime disputes with China, among them Japan, the Philippines and Taiwan.

His trade platform runs counter to Vietnam's interests, however, with his opposition to a Trans-Pacific Partnership proving a major setback for Southeast Asia's biggest exporter to the United States.

Trump and Phuc discussed ways to promote economic ties, trade and investment, the government added.

In a statement, Trump's transition team confirmed the conversation, saying the two men "discussed a range of shared interests and agreed to work together to continue strengthening the relationship between the two nations".

Just days after Trump's win, Phuc told parliament that ratification of the TPP would be shelved because of political changes in the United States, but Vietnam still wanted good relations with Washington.

In a separate development, a U.S. guided-missile destroyer, the Mustin, visited Cam Ranh international port on Thursday in a routine technical stop, the U.S. embassy said.

The ship's visit was "an example of the depth of our comprehensive partnership and the importance of strengthening our civilian and military ties," said U.S. Ambassador Ted Osius.

Vietnam has expressed support for the United States to maintain its security presence in Asia. Washington fully lifted a U.S. lethal arms embargo on Vietnam in May, allowing closer defense links and some joint military exercises.

(Reporting by My Pham in HANOI; Additional reporting by Steve Holland in WASHINGTON; Editing by Clarence Fernandez)


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## Sejong

does Vietnam have the SPYDER SAM yet?


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## BoQ77

Sejong said:


> does Vietnam have the SPYDER SAM yet?



Already received in July 2016.

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## Aqsuperman

Artillery of ground force. With the on-going transformation of 105mm to the truck version.

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## Carlosa

*Third US Warship Visits Vietnam’s Cam Ranh International Port*
Visit a reminder of the increased defense collaboration between the two sides.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/third-us-warship-visits-vietnams-cam-ranh-international-port/





By Prashanth Parameswaran
December 16, 2016


A third U.S. Navy ship visited Vietnam’s newly-opened port facility in the Southeast Asian state in a reminder of the ongoing collaboration between the two countries in the maritime realm.

The _Arleigh Burke_-class guided missile destroyer USS _Mustin_ (DDG 89), which is on patrol from Yokosuka, Japan with a crew of 300 sailors, arrived in Cam Ranh International Seaport, a new international port facility capable of receiving foreign warships which was opened in March (See: “Vietnam Unveils Port Facility For Foreign Warships in Cam Ranh Bay”). The port, located in Cam Ranh Bay, a deep-water harbor in central Vietnam along the South China Sea that Washington had used as a base during the Vietnam War, has since seen visits from a string of countries, including Japan, France, China, the Philippines, and Singapore.

The USS _Mustin_ is the third U.S. Navy ship to visit Cam Ranh International Port this year. Two U.S. ships had visited in September in the first interaction of this kind since the Vietnam War, and the visit occurred after a Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) (See: “US, Vietnam Boost Naval Cooperation with NEA 2016”). Though the United States refers to its naval interactions with Southeast Asian states such as the Southeast Asia Cooperation and Training (SEACAT) and the Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) as exercises, those with Vietnam continue to be referred to on their own as a Naval Engagement Activity (NEA).

The visit of the USS _Mustin_ this week is “a technical visit” that is mainly “for crew rest and cultural exchange,” Arlo Abrahamson, public affairs officer at the U.S. Seventh Fleet’s Task Force 73, which helps plan and execute exercises and engagements, emphasized to _The Diplomat_.

But there is no doubt that the engagement is nonetheless significant for U.S.-Vietnam defense relations. In 2012, former U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta had said that access for U.S. naval ships to Cam Ranh Bay was “a key component” of the U.S.-Vietnam relationship. And as I noted earlier this year, since the opening of the port facility in March, U.S. and Vietnamese officials had indicated that the idea of U.S. vessels visiting would be realized by the end of the year, even though the specifics, including the number of visits, their nature, and the exact timing, would be determined carefully (See: “US-Vietnam Defense Relations: Problems and Prospects”).

During their stop this week, sailors from the USS _Mustin _would have a chance to meet with people from Nha Trang, where the port is located, share U.S. culture through sporting events, and learn about Vietnam through local cultural activities.

“The USS _Mustin_’s stop in Cam Ranh International Port is an example of the depth of our comprehensive partnership and the importance of strengthening our civilian and military ties,” U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius said.

The United States and Vietnam upgraded their relationship to a comprehensive partnership back in July 2013. The relationship received another boost this year with U.S. President Barack Obama’s visit to Vietnam, which strengthened ties including in the defense realm, with the lifting of a decades-old arms embargo.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam to build radar satellites *

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 12/18/2016 11:11 GMT + 7

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/38623/vietnam-to-build-radar-satellites





*Vietnam is set to launch two radar satellites in 2019 and 2022, marking the country’s major advancement in space technology.*

The two satellites will be Vietnam’s first to employ radar technology which allows for higher-resolution image capturing in all weather conditions.

LOTUSat-1 and LOTUSat-2 are part of a US$600 million project to establish the Vietnam National Satellite Center (VNSC) in Cau Giay District, Hanoi, which will be the country’s biggest science and technology project.

Each of the satellites is designed to weigh 600 kilograms and to have an orbital lifetime of five years. They can capture images of objects on the earth surface measuring as small as one meter in size.

The satellites will be tasked with monitoring and giving out early warnings on weather hazards, as well as keeping track of fish migration at sea to aid Vietnam’s fishing industry, according to VNSC director Dr. Pham Anh Tuan.

Once launched, the satellites are expected to help save as much as $150 million a year in disaster-caused damage on the country’s crops, according to experts at the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA).

*One giant step for Vietnam’s space technology*

According to Dr. Tuan, LOTUSat-1 will be built primarily by Japanese engineers with the participation of their Vietnamese colleagues.

The satellite is currently up for contract bidding and is expected to be launched in March 2019.

Vietnam has already sent a team of 36 select space engineers to Japan for training and taking part in the building of LOTUSat-1.

The engineers will launch two small demo satellites named Micro Dragon and Nano Dragon next year as part of their training in preparation for the major projects to build Vietnam’s first radar satellites.

Up to 100 Vietnamese engineers will have been trained by the time LOTUSat-2 is built, Dr. Tuan said, adding that the second satellite will be made in Vietnam by local engineers under the supervision of foreign experts.

According to the VNSC director, Vietnam currently places in the middle among Southeast Asian nations in terms of space technology, and has never been able to build its own satellites before.

The ability of its engineers to build satellites will mark a significant step in its progress in the field, Tuan remarked.

Apart from building the two satellites, Vietnam will also be focusing on training quality personnel capable of running its satellite network in the near future.

The country successfully launched geostationary satellites Vinasat-1 and Vinasat-2 in 2008 and 2012, as well as sun-synchronous satellite VNREDSat-1 in 2013.

*Kindling youths’ interest in space*

The VNSC project also places particular emphasis on kindling the love for space among youths in the country with the scheduled establishment of an aerospace museum and two observatories.

The aerospace museum is part of the VNSC complex inside Hoa Lac Hi-Tech Park in Thach That District, Hanoi.

Its construction has already finished and the museum will be open to the public as early as 2018.

Meanwhile, two VND120 billion ($5.27 million) observatories are being constructed in Hanoi and Nha Trang, a popular beach city in the central region.

The observatory in Hanoi will be opened at the same time as the aerospace museum, while the one in Nha Trang will go into operation next March.

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## TenLua

Make sure you guys reserve an AK for me; with plenty of ammo.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Acquires Two Early Warning Aircraft with ELTA Radar*
Vietnam will buy at least two early-warning C-295 AEW&C aircraft to enhance the ability to control the South China Sea airspace

Ami Rojkes Dombe | 30/05/2016 



http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/content/vietnam-acquires-two-early-warning-aircraft-elta-radar






C295 AEW and C295 Transport - militaryaircraft-airbusds.com

According to a report on aseanmildef, Vietnam is purchasing two C-295 type early-warning aircraft (AEW&C). The Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system was developed jointly by ELTA and Airbus in 2006.

In view of China's activity in the South China Sea, Vietnam is probably looking for surveillance and intelligence means that will enable it to better monitor its borders.

According to the report, Vietnam ordered at least two such aircraft.

*Vietnam will Buy Early Warning Aircraft C-295 AEW&C*
Maki Catama 9:51:00 PM 



http://www.aseanmildef.com/2016/05/vietnam-will-buy-early-warning-aircraft.html

HANOI, -- Vietnam will buy at least two early-warning aircraft C-295 AEW&C to enhance the ability to control the South China Sea airspace.

World media simultaneously reported that Vietnam will buy at least 2 aircraft early warning and control air C-295 AEW&C to enhance the ability to control airspace East Sea and provide information reconnaissance, early warning control service of the sky, ready to fight.

This is not without basis when multiple signals recently that Vietnam will likely favor buying the aircraft.

C-295 AEW&C necessary for Vietnam

Military experts said that the C-295 AEW&C is now very necessary for Vietnam.

Accordingly, Vietnam Army was initially formed diverse combat capability with modern weapons such as the Su-30MK2 aircraft, high-speed vessels Molniya rocket, rocket ship Gepard 3.9 Guardians, submarine Kilo 636, missile shore Bastion-P.

However, we still lack a means of linking the modern weapon systems as well as an extended arm to operate, it's early warning aircraft.

The early warning aircraft act in coordination with aircraft, warships help remote target detection, homing missiles, expanding the range of weapons combat. Besides early warning aircraft are also intermediate link, as well as help coordinate the activities of different weapons.

Also according to analysts, this aircraft uses the chassis of the transport aircraft C-295 should help to reduce maintenance costs as well as trained pilots, mechanics.

ELTA radar could be linked to the arms of the Russian system, which Vietnam is owned by Israel have a lot of experience in improving weapons as well as providing radar early warning aircraft to India (the country use Russian aircraft system), C-295 AEW&C is considered the optimal solution for the needs of Vietnam.

Many positive signs

In particular, local and international media also published photographs delegations visiting Vietnam Military C-295 aircraft AEW&C.

This is considered a good signal to accelerate the process of negotiation and transfer between Vietnam and the defense industrial company Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), Israel.

In a statement to the media in February month 6/2014, Mr. Antonio Rodríguez Barberan, Director of Airbus DS (subsidiary of Airbus Group European aviation) officially revealed, Ecuador and Vietnam is two of the many new customers have ordered 3 transport aircraft C-295 Airbus DS for each country.

Meanwhile, Russia's Independent newspaper, said that the modernization requires the Air Force in the near future, Vietnam will buy at least two aircraft airborne early warning, in which CASA C-295 is one of the leading candidate.

Because this will be the aircraft is equipped with the electronic system can be compatible with 6 seaplane DHC-6 Twin Otter Navy Air Force Vietnam and create a network of surveillance and early warning area for both air and sea, thereby enhancing the combat readiness capability for our Army.

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## BoQ77

My guess
------------
As Vietnam has been exercised on 3 of upgraded DHC-6 long time ago.

The number 3 implies 3 crews ready for 3 bigger platform

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## frequency

BoQ77 said:


> My guess


amen


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## Aqsuperman

*In the South China Sea, Vietnam Stands Its Ground*







Fortifications such as the one on Vietnamese-controlled Phan Vinh Island in the South China Sea's Spratly chain are one method countries in the disputed waters press their claims. (Vietnam News Agency/AFP/Getty Images)
*Summary*
As China tries to make nice with some of its rivals in the South China Sea, Vietnam is quietly building up its own maritime defenses. Over the past month, a series of satellite images has shown that Hanoi is accelerating its island reclamation and fortification efforts in the Spratly island chain. Combined with its pursuit of defense partnerships with the United States, Russia, France and India, as well as its improving air and naval assets, Vietnam appears determined to thwart China's ambitions to expand its claims over the disputed waters.

Some of Vietnam's neighbors, however, may spoil its plans. The Philippines and Malaysia have given in to Chinese pressure and agreed to manage their territorial feuds with Beijing through bilateral talks rather than international arbitration. Though Vietnam has tried to avoid drawing China's ire by mending ties with it in other ways, Hanoi's continued defiance on maritime issues could incite retaliation from Beijing that leaves Vietnam with little choice, in the end, but to follow its neighbors' lead.

*Analysis*
Vietnam's practice of fortifying islands and reefs under its control is nothing new. Military installations and garrisons have dotted the features of the Spratly archipelago — including the Southwest Cay, Sin Cowe Island and Spratly Island itself — for some time. But over the past two years, Vietnam has redoubled its efforts to reclaim and build up these islets and reefs, creating over 50 hectares (120 acres) of new land in the archipelago in spite of U.S. calls for it to stop so as to avoid escalating tensions in the sea.

*Vietnam Engineers a Deterrent*
Based on satellite imagery, Vietnam's latest projects on Spratly Island include the extension of a 600-meter (2,000-foot) runway to 1,200 meters and the construction of two large hangars, in addition to the two that already existed. Once these projects are finished, the island will be able to accommodate most of the Vietnamese air force's aircraft. According to an assessment by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, they also indicate that Hanoi will probably deploy noncombat aircraft, such as its PZL M28B maritime surveillance planes and CASA C-295 transport planes, to Spratly Island. Meanwhile, dredging work has been spotted at the nearby Ladd Reef that could be designed to provide shelter for Vietnamese vessels inside the lagoon. Unconfirmed reports indicated that Vietnam has positioned rocket artillery in the island chain as well, though Hanoi has denied the claims.

The new features are no match for China's aggressive buildup in the South China Sea, but they are notable for their position. Located on the sea's southwestern rim, Spratly Island stands apart from most of the other islets in the Spratly archipelago, boasting a comparatively large exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of its own. It also serves as Vietnam's key military outpost in the Spratly island chain, just as the Thitu and Taiping islands do for the Philippines and Taiwan, respectively. But perhaps just as important, Spratly Island rests on the western edge of the nine-dash line that China insists delineates its South China Sea holdings. Under Beijing's definition, Spratly Island — and the vast potential resources that fall within its EEZ — belongs to China. Should Vietnam's claim to the island be verified, it could invalidate the rest of the nine-dash line boundary as well. Hanoi is not taking any chances as China's creeping encroachment has left Vietnam's island defenses vulnerable, and it hopes that bolstering its military posture in the Spratlys will help to ward off any further Chinese advances.

*China Treads Carefully*
Vietnam's moves come at a time of relative calm in the ongoing South China Sea dispute. To different degrees, the Philippines and Malaysia have acquiesced to China's request to handle territorial spats through its preferred mechanism: diplomatic negotiations and joint arrangements that align with Beijing's interests. Though it remains to be seen whether this trend will continue, several factors can explain why it is happening now. For one, China has gradually gained the tactical upper hand in the region over the past six years as it has modernized its military, developed its islands and acquired new deep-sea drilling technology. That said, China has also experienced significant strategic setbacks, not least of which was a ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration that negated Beijing's competing claims with the Philippines in the South China Sea. As a result, China seems to have abandoned the outright use of force for a subtler two-track strategy: Using economic and tactical concessions to entice cooperation from some claimants while maintaining pressure against more vocal opponents with limited punitive measures. The former have included offers of joint energy development projects and fishing regulations, while the latter have included diplomatic complaints and interdictions.






Having found themselves with fewer options for countering China's maritime ambitions, many South China Sea claimants — including the Philippines and Malaysia — have adopted a more conciliatory approach toward Beijing. Though these countries have continued to expand their defense ties with other powers, they have relented in their refusal to settle disputes through bilateral talks with China. Vietnam, however, has proved the exception.

China sees Vietnam's land reclamation efforts as a provocation, but it has neither the legal grounds nor the appetite to militarily challenge it. Nevertheless, it has the means to pressure Vietnam or undermine Hanoi's territorial claims, should it so choose. For instance, Beijing could increase its holdings in the Paracel Islands or send coast guard patrols near the Spratlys. It could also begin bidding on or exploring for energy resources around Spratly Island, including in the nearby Vanguard Bank, which Beijing tried to develop in the 1990s. But each of these measures would also risk renewing regional suspicions of China's intentions, undermining its own goal of reaching one-on-one deals with the sea's claimants that ultimately work in its favor.

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## Viet

thing is moving at nail speed but some take shape: Vietnam first observatory with a 0.5-meter telescope near Nha Trang. the second one will be in Hanoi. both go live next year. observatories are part of Vietnam $600 million space program.


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## Viet

*Analysis*

*Against China, Vietnam Stands Alone*
December 22, 2016 | 09:15 GMT 






_Garment manufacture is among the industries supporting Vietnam's export-oriented economy that depends on Chinese raw materials, such as fabric. That reliance limits Hanoi's options when dealing with its giant northern neighbor. (HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/Getty Images) _

*Forecast*

_Vietnam will pursue its island reclamation projects and defense partnerships more discreetly to avoid directly challenging China._
_Despite Vietnam's efforts to connect with global markets, its reliance on imports of raw materials and incomplete industrial chains may mean that such integration could damage its export-oriented economy in the long run._
_Rising protectionism in the developed world will hamper Vietnam's attempts to overcome its structural economic flaws, rising debt and inefficient state-owned enterprises._

*Analysis*
The balance of power in Southeast Asia has been quietly shifting in China's favor, and perhaps no country feels it more than Vietnam. In the span of a few months, Hanoi — once the staunchest advocate for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) — became the first participant to shelve the trade pact, well before U.S. President-elect Donald Trump announced his intention to withdraw from it. At the same time, Vietnam softened its criticisms of China and took steps to mend ties with Beijing. Rather than positioning itself squarely in China's crosshairs, Hanoi began a more subtle pursuit of its maritime claims and alliances with stronger partners, keeping its options open and its defenses ready.

More so than most of its neighbors, Vietnam can neither fully reject nor embrace the growing power on its northern border. Some, such as the Philippines and Malaysia, have eagerly joined Chinese-led trade blocs and dispute-settling mechanisms. Others, like Japan and Singapore, have firmly backed Washington's regional agenda. Vietnam has historically opted to strike a delicate balance between the two, but as the region adjusts to a new political reality, Hanoi's strategy is becoming increasingly difficult to pull off.

*A Lasting Legacy*
Despite its short-lived momentum, the TPP's legacy is still alive and well in Vietnam. Shortly after Hanoi decided to suspend its approval of the U.S.-led trade deal, the government announced a raft of new labor laws and business reforms in an apparent bid to demonstrate its continued commitment to the TPP's high regulatory standards. It also took steps to integrate its economy more closely with those of other TPP signatories and regional trade blocs, including the Chinese-backed Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership and Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific.








In fact, Vietnam has embarked on one of the most active quests for free trade in the Pacific Rim. From Hanoi's perspective, deals like the TPP are perfect for attracting foreign investment and buyers for its exports, both of which are crucial to ensuring its success amid heightened regional competition and its gradual reform of the Vietnamese economy. (Currently, inefficient state-run enterprises are responsible for much of the country's economic output.) Though Vietnam was the least developed member of the TPP — and, in many ways, the one that would have proved most vulnerable to its strict requirements — it was also the state that stood the most to gain from it. Despite the deal's impending failure, Hanoi has pursued a fairly liberal trade agenda that has left it with a cushion of other free trade agreements to fall back on, including with the Eurasian Economic Union and European Union. (The former already has taken effect, while the latter is scheduled to be implemented in early 2018.)

But as was true with the TPP, Vietnam's motives for seeking out these trade and investment agreements are not solely economic. Hanoi's deal with the Eurasian Economic Union, for instance, offers only limited access to the bloc's market but lays the groundwork for a stronger military and energy partnership with Russia, its former ally. By comparison, EU members and TPP states receive nearly 60 percent of Vietnam's total exports and include some of its biggest investors, such as Japan, Singapore and the United States. Nevertheless, the two blocs set lofty standards that would require Hanoi to undertake extensive regulatory overhauls and politically sensitive labor union reforms that could directly threaten the operations of its bloated state-owned enterprises. That the Vietnamese government is willing to do so in spite of the risks to its own position in power is a testament to its desire to seek out trade partners other than China and, by extension, limit Beijing's influence over Vietnam.

But putting its plan into practice has been no easy feat. Vietnam's industry is still heavily reliant on Chinese yarn, fabric and electronics, and its recent territorial feuds with Beijing in the South China Sea have raised doubts about whether Hanoi can continue to count on those supplies. Vietnamese imports of Chinese goods increased most rapidly between 2010 and 2015, when tensions between the two countries reached their peak. This, combined with a growing reliance on imports that has reduced the profitability of Vietnam's exports, suggests that Hanoi may have a tough time improving its economic fortunes. The TPP or a free trade agreement with the European Union would expand Vietnam's access to other markets and foreign partners, eventually reducing its dependence on Chinese products. But in the short term, these deals will offer little relief. From Hanoi's perspective, signing the TPP when it essentially has been tabled would needlessly irritate Beijing, which considers the TPP to be part of a U.S.-led strategy to contain China's rise.

*Lingering Barriers to Free Trade*
Choosing between U.S.- and Chinese-led initiatives in trade and security has not been an option for Vietnam since the Cold War ended. Instead, the country has harnessed its advantageous location and regional clout to make steady gains of its own on both fronts, making room to manage its relationships with meddlesome foreign powers while emerging as one of the biggest manufacturing success stories in the Asia-Pacific region. Yet as much as Hanoi would like to link its economy to the rest of the global market, rising protectionism in the developed world and lingering vulnerabilities in its political economy at home will stand in the way of its ambitions.








Over the past two years, a spurt of economic growth driven by robust exports and investment allowed Vietnam to pull ahead of regional competitors like Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia, whose growth slowed during the same period. But with an export-oriented economy that runs on foreign investment, the country's deepening integration with the rest of the world has made it vulnerable to volatility in global markets while squeezing its domestic manufacturers. After years of generous foreign investment, investor pledges have tapered off in recent months, a sign of the challenges to come for Vietnamese exports in the wake of the TPP's demise. Meanwhile, growing protectionism in the United States and European Union — Vietnam's largest export markets — bode ill for its economic prospects, as do the trade disputes brewing between Washington and Beijing. The timing of those developments could not be worse for Hanoi, which is in the midst of a painful effort to restructure its economy that could put pressure on some of Vietnam's most important industries, including agriculture, steel and electronic components.

The country's manufacturing supply chains, moreover, are far from complete. Vietnam must import many of the raw materials it uses to generate its exports. This, coupled with the country's lack of supporting and processing industries, has cut into producers' profit margins and limited their ability to add value. Without a long-term strategy to develop these industries and boost its productivity, Vietnam is vulnerable to external disruptions to its supplies. Hanoi has been forced to make do on a tight income and with meager export revenue. It has also seen its budget deficit grow to nearly 6.5 percent of GDP, aided in part by ballooning expenditures, plummeting oil prices and surging debt-service obligations. All of these issues have been aggravated by Vietnam's persistent macroeconomic problems, including its fragile banking system, an excessive number of non-performing loans, underdeveloped regulations and lagging public enterprise reforms, as well as continued volatility in global commodity prices and financial markets.


*A Deeply Rooted Rivalry*
The appearance of these new economic problems against a backdrop of mounting political uncertainty — both from the United States' unclear intentions for the Asia-Pacific region and in recent signs that Vietnam's neighbors may be starting to break their collective front against China — may have been the impetus behind the change in Vietnam's diplomatic tactics. But there are limits to how much less contentious its relationship with China can get — and how long Beijing will ignore Hanoi's muted assertiveness.

Vietnam's resistance to Chinese invasion has deep historical roots, and a vein of nationalism still runs strong among its people. Each of these factors will continue to prevent Hanoi from following in Malaysia's footsteps by cozying up to Beijing. Moreover, unlike the Philippines, Vietnam has no U.S. security guarantee to protect it from Chinese aggression, despite its fairly friendly relationship with Washington. Consequently, Hanoi has worked to build up its own defenses and island claims in the South China Sea, all while continuing its drive for closer security cooperation in the region.

To be sure, among all regional challengers to China's maritime expansion, Vietnam is still the most militarily capable. But multilateral organizations like the Association for Southeast Asian Nations will not be much help in deterring Chinese expansionism in the disputed waters. And as other major claimants in the South China Sea begin to pivot to varying degrees toward China, Vietnam will find itself alone in its stand against Beijing. Having given no indication that it intends to lay its maritime disputes with China to rest, Vietnam will continue to discreetly bolster its forces and alliances, even at the risk of drawing Beijing's ire.

https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/against-china-vietnam-stands-alone

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## Viet

a bit of history. a war that nobody wanted. a Vietnam war memorial is opened in the Pentagon. one more to many existing Vietnam war momerials on over America. what began with few hundreds of US troops on the ground, at the end of day the war had seen more than 9,000,000 US soldiers fighting in Vietnam. the war caused not only deaths and destruction to Vietnam, but also inflicted political, economic and military crisis to America. John F. Kenneny was assassinated, also his brother and Martin Luther King, Jr.. Lyndon B. Johnson gave up after a term. Johnson once said "I can't get out, I can't finish it with what I have got. So what the hell do I do?" when his strategy of escalation of war failed. Richard Nixon was forced to resigned after his involvement in the Watergate scandal. Gerald Ford was no illusionist, stopping all supports to South Vietnam, letting the Republic to collapse.



















Jumping to the present

Hun Sen, the Prime Minister of Cambodia on a visit to Vietnam. he is fluent in Vietnamese. No wonder he was trained in Vietnam, learning everything he needs to know to survive in a world of chaos. the late King of Cambodia Norodom Sihanouk once scolded him as one eyed lackey of the Vietnamese. I don´t think it is true, considering the deep rooted hatred of Cambodians on everything Vietnamese. Anyway, on his occassion of the visit, Hun Sen found some nice words:

“Tôi rất cảm ơn Việt Nam và biết ơn Việt Nam. Tôi biết ngày mai  (22-12) là 72 năm ngày thành lập Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam. Tôi muốn nói rằng quân đội Việt Nam là một đội quân mạnh, đối với tôi, tôi rất tin tưởng. Tôi chúc quân đội Việt Nam tiếp tục trưởng thành...Đất nước Campuchia không có các anh thì lúc này dân tộc Campuchia không biết đi về đâu”.

for someone who is not familiar with Vietnamese language, Hun Sen has great trust to Vietnamese army (whatever the reason) and he thanks Vietnam for saving Cambodia from the abyss (we know what he means).

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## Silent Knight

Compensation for the lack of nice photos.

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## cochine

In north Vietnam, in nearby with border mountainous area.. .






In south Vietnam where is wet rice planting area closed to the border.

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## Aqsuperman

Outfitting and standardizing M-113 weapon system.

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## Viet

despite all setbacks I believe we have seen a good year. Merry Christmas!

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Compensation for the lack of nice photos.


I wish too we have many nice photos to post showing vietnam military power. Personally I am for more posturings as I believe such things have some positive effects. But you know sometimes even that isn't necessary to do so. An US army general was once asked why the US armed forces never stage any military parade in public places like the Russians and Chinese do, with tanks, planes, missiles and everything else? He responds there is not necessary to do it, because everyone knows of US military power.

This week in the most popular weekly German magazine "der Spiegel" appears an interview with a retired Lt. General of Chinese People's Liberation Army. I don't remember if his name. He was asked why Xi Jinping broke the promise not to weaponize the islands in the South China Sea? He answers China does it in response to increasing US military buildup in the South China Sea, especially in the Philippines. And the buildup in the latter continues despite new tones of the Durtete administration. But he comments that is not the US that poses the biggest threat to China but Vietnam. The Vietnamese, he says, are armed to the teeth. China has to respond. Interesting isn't it? Nobody sees it. There isn't announcement. But Vietnam has a military in place that brings death and destruction to an aggressor. The words of a retired PLA general is remarkable because he can freely say without taking care too much of political correctness.

Cheers!

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> despite all setbacks I believe we have seen a good year. Merry Christmas!



Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!


All the best bro

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> All the best bro



Likewise


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> a bit of history. a war that nobody wanted. a Vietnam war memorial is opened in the Pentagon. one more to many existing Vietnam war momerials on over America. what began with few hundreds of US troops on the ground, at the end of day the war had seen more than 9,000,000 US soldiers fighting in Vietnam. the war caused not only deaths and destruction to Vietnam, but also inflicted political, economic and military crisis to America. John F. Kenneny was assassinated, also his brother and Martin Luther King, Jr.. Lyndon B. Johnson gave up after a term. Johnson once said "I can't get out, I can't finish it with what I have got. So what the hell do I do?" when his strategy of escalation of war failed. Richard Nixon was forced to resigned after his involvement in the Watergate scandal. Gerald Ford was no illusionist, stopping all supports to South Vietnam, letting the Republic to collapse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jumping to the present
> 
> Hun Sen, the Prime Minister of Cambodia on a visit to Vietnam. he is fluent in Vietnamese. No wonder he was trained in Vietnam, learning everything he needs to know to survive in a world of chaos. the late King of Cambodia Norodom Sihanouk once scolded him as one eyed lackey of the Vietnamese. I don´t think it is true, considering the deep rooted hatred of Cambodians on everything Vietnamese. Anyway, on his occassion of the visit, Hun Sen found some nice words:
> 
> “Tôi rất cảm ơn Việt Nam và biết ơn Việt Nam. Tôi biết ngày mai  (22-12) là 72 năm ngày thành lập Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam. Tôi muốn nói rằng quân đội Việt Nam là một đội quân mạnh, đối với tôi, tôi rất tin tưởng. Tôi chúc quân đội Việt Nam tiếp tục trưởng thành...Đất nước Campuchia không có các anh thì lúc này dân tộc Campuchia không biết đi về đâu”.
> 
> for someone who is not familiar with Vietnamese language, Hun Sen has great trust to Vietnamese army (whatever the reason) and he thanks Vietnam for saving Cambodia from the abyss (we know what he means).



Those old fellas are going to be replaced by men in hoodie. They held on, and defended the country long enough. Retirement is due, soon.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Those old fellas are going to be replaced by men in hoodie. They held on, and defended the country long enough. Retirement is due, soon.


the US soldiers fighting in VN are long in retirement. what remains is a sense of deep bitterness. though in different ways. the US veterans feel bitter because they say all sarifies are in vain, while the former members of Southvietnamese army have a feeling of bitterness because they scold the Americans committed of treason in the darkest hours.

anyway I hope a better economy will support Vietnam military buildup, adding more firepower at sea. The petya frigates despite receiving new sonar system will retire one day.


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## Carlosa

Nice comparison of 4 islands with runways in the Spratlys

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## Viet

from VN army website _QĐND,_ reporting some success that have been achieved this year: FFIS friend-foe identification system MH-VN1, especially designed for Spyder air defense system, air responder MTL-VN2 for Mi-8 helicopter and Su-22M4 fighter jet, 6110-VN2 communications system for Su-30MK2 bomber, two variants of UAV, diverse radars, bombs, missile control systems. Responder is installed on surface warships on trial basis. For someone who is not familiar of FFIS, before a missile is launched, a system identifies whether a object is a friend or foe. A responder installed on plane or ship answers positive to a request, basically saying I am your friend, don't shoot at me.

"Trong thời gian tới, chiến lược phát triển của viện tập trung nghiên cứu, thiết kế, chế tạo các sản phẩm mũi nhọn, thế mạnh, như: Tiếp tục thử nghiệm các loại ra-đa mới (ra-đa mạng pha 3D); phát triển máy bay không người lái phục vụ huấn luyện của quân chủng và các mục đích kinh tế, xã hội khác; nghiên cứu chế tạo nhiên liệu tên lửa rắn; cải tiến bom thông thường thành bom thông minh; thiết kế, chế tạo tổ hợp tên lửa tầm gần sử dụng tên lửa hàng không P-13M..."


_




Lắp bom OFAB-100-120 cho máy bay Su-30MK2. Ảnh: Báo QĐND_


_




Hệ thống radar cảnh giới do Viện PK-KQ tự chế tạo. Ảnh: báo QĐND_

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## Viet

Further among the goals the army as per website wants to develop in near future are 3D radar system, unmanned air plane, armor piercing projectiles.

I am missing destroyer


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## BoQ77

Good way to go:
- develop kits for making JDAM.
- self build SAM based on WVR AA missile ( just like SPYDER-SR using Python missile )
- 3D surveillance radar.

They would be mass deployed not like imported ones

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## Viet

Vietnam 4 satellites in space make pictures in not too bad quality. Not only over Vietnam land and sea territory but also other countries. As seen below some images. Only some are available to public, the rest are classified. Too bad otherwise we can see how the Chinese position their warships and missiles in the South China Sea. 4 SATs are more to come, along with a new built ground station in bac ninh, cooperation with ITU. Coming with snail speed but the new generation of satellites will offer a higher resolution than the current system in space. 1m across or less. That means we will see better pictures than ever before, much better than the one made by one spy satellite.


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## BoQ77

Google satellites resolution is much better than 1 m.
And Southeast Asia quite cloudy, we wait for the earth observation radar sensing satellite manufactured by Japan technology to take pictures in all weather.

More important, Japan transfer the tech of manufacture the satellites to Vietnam for future building

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## Viet

BoQ77 said:


> Google satellites resolution is much better than 1 m.
> And Southeast Asia quite cloudy, we wait for the earth observation radar sensing satellite manufactured by Japan technology to take pictures in all weather.
> 
> More important, Japan transfer the tech of manufacture the satellites to Vietnam for future building


Are you sure google has own satellites? And all you need is a internet browser? Can you post here Chinese military installations in Hainan and in the South China Sea?

We need both optical and radar satellites. Not all nations sky is cloudy all the time unless there are someone out there who burns the forest to the ground.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> I wish too we have many nice photos to post showing vietnam military power. Personally I am for more posturings as I believe such things have some positive effects. But you know sometimes even that isn't necessary to do so. An US army general was once asked why the *US armed forces never stage any military parade in public places* like the Russians and Chinese do, with tanks, planes, missiles and everything else? He responds there is not necessary to do it, because everyone knows of US military power.
> 
> This week in the most popular weekly German magazine "der Spiegel" appears an interview with a retired Lt. General of Chinese People's Liberation Army. I don't remember if his name. He was asked why Xi Jinping broke the promise not to weaponize the islands in the South China Sea? He answers China does it in response to increasing US military buildup in the South China Sea, especially in the Philippines. And the buildup in the latter continues despite new tones of the Durtete administration. But he comments that is not the US that poses the biggest threat to China but Vietnam. The Vietnamese, he says, are armed to the teeth. China has to respond. Interesting isn't it? Nobody sees it. There isn't announcement. But Vietnam has a military in place that brings death and destruction to an aggressor. The words of a retired PLA general is remarkable because he can freely say without taking care too much of political correctness.
> 
> Cheers!


I believe the real reason for the bold text is that the US armed forces do stage military parades, they just always stage them on the territory of other nations somehow 

Also, you got any link to the article on dẻ Spiegel? Or it's on paper version?


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> I believe the real reason for the bold text is that the US armed forces do stage military parades, they just always stage them on the territory of other nations somehow
> 
> Also, you got any link to the article on dẻ Spiegel? Or it's on paper version?


It's a paper edition of the Spiegel. I will check if I can get it. I read the article by accident.


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## terranMarine

Carlosa said:


> Putin is not going to reduce dependence on China because you say so? We'll see, but based on what appears that is going to happen and considering that the Russians don't fully trust China, I'd say that they will.


Not because i say so because Putin said it personally himself 

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201612131048487583-china-russia-partnership-putin/

Yeah we shall see if Russia is siding with Trump


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> "Trong thời gian tới, chiến lược phát triển của viện tập trung nghiên cứu, thiết kế, chế tạo các sản phẩm mũi nhọn, thế mạnh, như: Tiếp tục thử nghiệm các loại ra-đa mới (ra-đa mạng pha 3D); phát triển máy bay không người lái phục vụ huấn luyện của quân chủng và các mục đích kinh tế, xã hội khác; nghiên cứu chế tạo nhiên liệu tên lửa rắn;* cải tiến bom thông thường thành bom thông minh*; thiết kế, chế tạo tổ hợp tên lửa tầm gần sử dụng tên lửa hàng không P-13M..."


Holy mother, Vietnamese indigenous JDAM


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## cochine



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## Carlosa

*In Vietnam, the Ghost of Agent Orange Still Looms Large*
*http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/in-vietnam-the-ghost-of-agent-orange-still-looms-large/*

Some nights, the illuminated oval-shaped building hovering over a thick row of trees keeps Trinh Bui Kokkoris, 48, restless. Each time she looks out of the window from her apartment in Brooklyn Heights, the sight of the U.S. District Court reminds Trinh of the lawsuit she and her husband lost more than a decade ago with other Vietnamese victims of Agent Orange.

The year was 2004. Trinh’s husband, Constantine Kokkoris, was an attorney in an unprecedented civil suit that sought compensation from 31 U.S. chemical companies for hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese victims exposed to the Agent Orange defoliant.

The tension was high, the enthusiasm stirring. “We were setting something unprecedented,” said Trinh in a strangled, hoarse voice. Years of studying opera caused her to develop spasmodic dysphonia immediately after giving birth to her only child in 1997.

On Trinh’s 37th birthday, while attending an Agent Orange conference in Paris, her family received the news that the District Court for the Eastern District of New York had dismissed the case, concluding that the herbicide manufacturers were government contractors during the Vietnam War and were, therefore, protected from liability.

Not deterred, the plaintiffs continued to petition all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court. But in March 2009, the Supreme Court announced it would not review the case, effectively ending the lawsuit.

“It was devastating,” said Trinh. Later that year, she was diagnosed with uterine cancer. She had been exposed to Agent Orange as a child.

Eight years after the lawsuit was dismissed, Trinh has overcome her battle against cancer. The international community has increased its humanitarian efforts to address the issue of Agent Orange, and the U.S. government, while still denying any legal liability, has begun assisting in healing the painful legacy of war. But Trinh believes not enough has been done and the plight of Vietnamese Agent Orange victims remains her life’s mission. The view of the courthouse from her apartment is a daily reminder of that struggle.

“At least I’m body-abled, I can walk, I can speak,” said Trinh. “We have to be their voices.” In 2013, she co-founded the Vietnam Learning, Arts & Cultural Center, which supports Agent Orange victims in Vietnam.

Between 1961 and 1971, the U.S. Air Force sprayed over 19 million gallons of herbicide combinations across South Vietnam to defoliate thick jungles that provided enemy cover. According to Professor Jeanne Mager Stellman of Columbia University, an expert on health management, as many as 4.8 million people may have been sprayed. Four decades after the war, the dioxin-contaminated areas still pose threat to local communities. The Vietnamese Red Cross further estimates that up to 3 million Vietnamese spanning three generations have medical conditions that have been tied to exposure to Agent Orange, including several types of cancer, heart disease, skin conditions, and birth defects.

One of the reasons Trinh’s husband first became involved with the lawsuit was because he suspected his wife had been exposed to Agent Orange. Trinh was born in 1968 and lived in Saigon until 1975, when she migrated to the United States together with her parents and two sisters.

Since childhood, Trinh has suffered from asthma and a multitude of allergies. “My doctors said, ‘I’ve never seen anybody with these many allergies,’” said Trinh. The rolled up sleeves of her shirt revealed brown patches scarred from severe eczema.

The Vietnam War ended in 1975, yet no large-scale scientific study on the effects of herbicides on human health has been carried out. The U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) recognizes 14 illnesses as being caused by wartime herbicides, including cancers of the respiratory system, prostate cancer, Hodgkin lymphoma, chloracne, chronic lymphocytic leukemia, ischemic heart disease, Type 2 diabetes, and spina bifida in the children of exposed families. The department has paid billions in disability benefits to U.S. veterans for ailments related to herbicides exposure.

Since 2007, the U.S. Congress had appropriated over $125 million to fund the cleanup of severely dioxin-contaminated areas in Vietnam and provide assistance for people with disabilities that are most likely a result of exposure to Agent Orange. The program has almost finished cleaning up the contamination at the Da Nang airbase and is slated to launch a similar environmental remediation program at the Bien Hoa airbase outside of Ho Chi Minh City.




Trinh Bui Kokkoris during her recent visit to Tu Du Hospital in Ho Chi Minh City

Last month, Trinh traveled to Vietnam with a group of international reporters. While conceding that the environmental remediation programs have generally been progressing well, Trinh says not enough has been done to assist Vietnamese with health defects and their families.

According to Michael F. Martin, specialist in Asian affairs for the Congressional Research Service, Congress appropriated over $82 million for environmental remediation and a little over $27 million for health related activities between 2007 and 2015.

“The money that the U.S. is giving is such a drop in the bucket to the huge need. It’s more symbolic in some ways,” said Susan Hammond, executive director of the War Legacies Project, an NGO that supports Agent Orange victims in Vietnam. Hammond’s organization annually collects $20,000 to $30,000 to support about 40 victims and their families.

According to Hammond, an affected family requires at minimum $1,000 a year to survive, not including medical needs and care. “So ten million doesn’t go very far when you got hundreds of thousand of people who need assistance,” she said.

But according to Tim Rieser, the senior Democratic staff member for the Appropriations Subcommittee on the Department of State and Foreign Operations, the amount of U.S. funding dedicated to assist Agent Orange victims reflects the ability to spend and monitor the use of funds effectively, and the priorities of the Vietnamese government, which prefers spending the U.S. funding on cleanups rather than assistance to affected individuals.

“Their highest priority is the airbases, and destroying dioxin is a very technologically complex, expensive process,” said Rieser about Vietnamese officials.

The United States is slated to appropriate hundreds of millions of dollars over ten years for the Bien Hoa airbase cleanup project.

“The dioxin contamination does need to be cleaned up. These sites pose grave risks to the surrounding population,” said Rieser, who is also U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy’s foreign policy aide. “But Senator Leahy, without whom these programs would not exist, prefers that more of the funds are spent to help people who have been severely disabled,” he added.

But with Donald J. Trump to be sworn in as president in January and a Republican majority in both houses of Congress, Agent Orange activists are skeptical about the prospect of U.S. funding for Agent Orange related issues.

“I don’t think the funding will be there, even for the cleanups,” said Trinh.

However, Rieser said that even if Trump’s administration doesn’t support the funding, Senator Leahy would still fight for money to address the legacy of Agent Orange. “He will do everything he can to make sure that those funds are in the budget and are used to continue this program,” said Rieser. “He believes we have a moral responsibility, and that it is in our national interest.”

For the 2017 fiscal year, Senate Appropriations Committee recommends $20 million for environmental cleanup and $10 million to assist people with disabilities.

_Lucy Ha is a graduate student at Columbia Graduate School of Journalism. View more of her work here: https://medium.com/@lucyha93_


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## Aqsuperman

Engineer Corp equipments




.

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## Viet

*News > World*
*The Heroic Vietnam People’s Army Turns 72*



*



*
_Two young North Vietnamese girls learn how to handle a machine gun on a makeshift bamboo structure. | Photo: Archiv
_
Published 22 December 2016

*The army inspired millions as a result of defeating the Japanese, French and U.S. imperialists.*


The Vietnam People’s Army, founded on Dec. 22, 1944, by communist leader Ho Chi Minh, celebrated its 72nd anniversary today.

ANALYSIS:
10 Things You Might Not Have Known About the Vietnam War

General Vo Nguyen Giap was the first to organize the troops — initially only 34 soldiers, but grew to over 1 million people by 1975.

The People’s Army was famous for defeating the imperialist armies of Japan, France and the United States. Che Guevara, inspired by the national resistance in Vietnam, famously called for “two, three … many Vietnams,” as a way of weakening U.S. military power.

Among the most famous victories is the battle of Dien Bien Phu, which marked the first historical victory of an Asian colonial country over a European imperialist power, putting an end to the French occupation of Vietnam after over 80 years.

Later during the U.S. war came the Tet Offensive. Beginning on Jan. 30 1968, the People's Army launched a general offensive in more than 60 cities and towns throughout southern Vietnam. In coordinated attacks, the U.S. embassy in Saigon, the presidential palace, the headquarters of southern troops, TV and radio stations, Tan Son Nhat International Airport in Saigon were attacked and invaded by commando forces.

The offensives caught the world's attention and demoralized U.S. troops and the U.S. public.

The fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975, marked the end of the U.S. war in Vietnam, with the North Vietnamese capture of the southern capital. The war lasted from 1955 to 1975 and was the first defeat for U.S. imperialism in history.

Scenes of U.S. personnel fleeing by helicopter from the U.S. embassy after the liberation of Saigon inspired millions around the world and humiliated what was once considered an invincible military.

The United States, having at its disposal the most advanced technological and chemical weapons at the time, committed horrific atrocities that continue to affect Vietnam and its people to the present day. Over 3 million Vietnamese fighters and civilians were killed during the U.S. war.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> the US soldiers fighting in VN are long in retirement. what remains is a sense of deep bitterness. though in different ways. the US veterans feel bitter because they say all sarifies are in vain, while the former members of Southvietnamese army have a feeling of bitterness because they scold the Americans committed of treason in the darkest hours.
> 
> anyway I hope a better economy will support Vietnam military buildup, adding more firepower at sea. The petya frigates despite receiving new sonar system will retire one day.



There is no need for you to hope. Vietnam is destined for greater things than just a better economy.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Wants to Buy OPV from Fincantieri*

13 April 2016
http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2016/04/vietnam-wants-to-buy-opv-from.html




Commandante class OPV (photo : Wikiwand)

A spokesman for Defence Company Fincanteri (Italy) has reaffirmed that Vietnam Navy special attention to the offshore patrol vessels (OPV) of the company.

Representatives of the defense company Fincanteri (Italy) said the company is accelerating the expansion of its presence in Asia, which focuses on three main markets are India, Bangladesh and Vietnam.

In India, Fincanteri said they took part in the tender to provide equipment for the project closed New Project 17A frigates and would have resulted in a few months.

In addition, the company also cooperates with the shipbuilding company Hindustan Shipyard and the Indian Navy to prepare tender packages manufactured and supplied two mini submarines (SOV) to New Delhi in early 2015.

In Vietnam, Fincantieri, together with the Italian Government and the Deputy Defense Minister Domenico Rossi went to Vietnam to participate in defense dialogue was first deputy minister level.

On that occasion, Vietnam armed forces, particularly the navy, has expressed its willingness to cooperate with Italy on the purchase of patrol boats, more specifically, the OPV and mini submarines of Italy.

The Italian defense company aims to expand presence in Vietnam market showed positive step in moving all multilateral growth of relations and diversifying the supply of military equipment to the national defense industry has developed around the world.

According to the Research Institute of the Stockholm International Peace (SIPRI), in 2013, Vietnam has ordered two naval artillery systems from Super Rapid 76mm OTO Melara company's defense Italia (equip 2 SIGMA-class warship 9814 Dutch bid).

This agreement can be considered a "stepping stone" the first to open for both Vietnam and Italy added a new partner, serve the needs of defense and security for the country.

*The version of OPV ships*

If the information from Fincantieri is confirmed, so the Vietnam People's Navy is concerned about class offshore patrol vessels (OPV) does, present their product portfolio with only a suitable candidate.

Commandante (also known by the name Comandanti) is class offshore patrol vessels of the Navy advanced Italy, including 4 units bearing number P493 from P490 to set off close to the period from 2001 to 2002 and handed over simultaneously 31/01/2004 day.

The design of the vessel respect to reducing reflectivity radar cross section and infrared disclosed. The first three have steel superstructure but the last one called Foscari, glass fiber composite materials have been widely used (on the radar tower and helicopter hangars), made lighter vessels, leading to reduce fuel consumption.

The mission of Commandante was identified as offshore patrol, protect the territorial and exclusive economic zone, set up sovereign presence in distant waters. Besides, it was ready to engage in combat against surface ships.

Of the ship's sensors Selex radar RAN-30X / I work on X-band, with 4 modes including monitoring and airway surface for the small target; Helicopter guidance for coastal activities; beyond the horizon reconnaissance and detect missiles at sea.

Commandante is equipped with maritime navigation radar type SPS-753 dedicated operation on the bands I, complex jamming decoy launcher and radar intercept SLQ-747 supplied by Elettronica.

As a weapon should OPV only moderately, including Oto Melara 76/62 1 mm gunboats SR front layout, fire control radar is the Selex NA-25 fire control system optoelectronics RTN-25x based radar (working on the X-band).

Also on board there are two automatic cannon Oerlikon KBA 25/80 mm, deck and hangar at the tail allowed to carry one helicopter AB-212 or NH90 in the voyage.

A special feature to note is that due to the open design, Commandante can quickly upgrade to become a powerful corvette. But do not rule out the possibility, if ordered, Vietnam will require Fincantieri design right a frigate.

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## AViet

Why do we need to buy such equipment from a backward Southern European country? Cannot understand.

I think Vietnam is more than capable to manufacture it by ourselves. And the subsystems, if we cannot make, can be imported (same as the Italian, as I believe they cannot make it all by themselves).

@Aqsuperman and @Silent Knight,

Can you answer my question?


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## AViet

madokafc said:


> lol, backward Italian



I have been to Italy, worked with them and I see them as a backward people. Lazy (show up at work at 9AM and quit at 4PM), very unpunctual, partying until 2AM, poor quality education (compared to all East Asian countries), petty crimes everywhere, beggars everywhere, even in the richer North part of the country, graffiti everywhere.

The things I like were beautiful scenery and beautiful girls.

The wealth looted from colonies have not made them an advanced people. The current crisis have its roots for decades. If it is not for EU money, they might become as well-off as Malaysia at best.


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## Aqsuperman

Still, their metallurgy and advanced military technology are fairly strong, better than us at the very least. While VN do have some moderate achievements, Italian equipment and weaponry are well-know around the globe. Its not hurt to get some stuff from them as a way to widen our military supplies. And of course, striking up deals as with the Israeli and Ukraine is nice too


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## AViet

Aqsuperman said:


> Still, their metallurgy and advanced military technology are fairly strong, better than us at the very least. While VN do have some moderate achievements, Italian equipment and weaponry are well-know around the globe. Its not hurt to get some stuff from them as a way to widen our military supplies. And of course, striking up deals as with the Israeli and Ukraine is nice too



Thank you for your answer. I know we are still very backward in technology and have to import many things. But do not know that Italian military equipment are that advanced and Italy is a capable supplier. Ukraine and Israel are more familiar to me.


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## BoQ77



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## IblinI

AViet said:


> Thank you for your answer. I know we are still very backward in technology and have to import many things. But do not know that Italian military equipment are that advanced and Italy is a capable supplier. Ukraine and Israel are more familiar to me.


Actually almost every EU nation has their own yard, Italy Finmeccanica group is one of the world known defense company.


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## BoQ77

YuChen said:


> Actually almost every EU nation has their own yard, Italy Finmeccanica group is one of the world known defense company.



Yes. Finmeccanica has their yard in Vietnam too.


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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> Why do we need to buy such equipment from a backward Southern European country? Cannot understand.
> 
> I think Vietnam is more than capable to manufacture it by ourselves. And the subsystems, if we cannot make, can be imported (same as the Italian, as I believe they cannot make it all by themselves).
> 
> @Aqsuperman and @Silent Knight,
> 
> Can you answer my question?



As usual, every time you open your mouth, you make a fool of yourself. Vietnam could only wish that it could have the military technology that Italy has.

By the way, the beggars and the petty crime are the refugees, half a million arrived to Italy just this year. You can't even see the difference between Italians and north African people? 

If they are so lazy, how come their GDP numbers are many times the GDP of Vietnam even that they have much lower population?

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## BoQ77

@Carlosa 

We wish a Happy New Year to you and your family.

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## Carlosa

BoQ77 said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> We wish a Happy New Year to you and your family.



Happy New Year to you and your family too!!!!


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## Viet

AViet said:


> I have been to Italy, worked with them and I see them as a backward people. Lazy (show up at work at 9AM and quit at 4PM), very unpunctual, partying until 2AM, poor quality education (compared to all East Asian countries), petty crimes everywhere, beggars everywhere, even in the richer North part of the country, graffiti everywhere.
> 
> The things I like were beautiful scenery and beautiful girls.
> 
> The wealth looted from colonies have not made them an advanced people. The current crisis have its roots for decades. If it is not for EU money, they might become as well-off as Malaysia at best.


well I beg to differ. Italy is very diverse. North Italy is comparable to Southern Germany: hightech industry and prosperous. the people of Northern region look down on Southern Italians, considering them as Third World folks. there is even a policial party the Lega Nord, who wants to split up from Italy. Central Italy is the polical and economic heard of the country. in any cases bro calling Italy backward is wrong. I wish Vietnam can learn one or two from Italy. you name it, they can produce it. be aircraft, missile, tank, car, submarine or destroyer.

Happy New Year!

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## Carlosa

Happy New Year to all !!!!!

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## TenLua

hoangsa74 said:


> As i have already said the existence of this low quality thread is for viet members to hide in here n troll other nations with impunity.



You're one terrible shill. They pay you for this shit? LMAO

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## Viet

Crown Princess Masako, Crown Prince Naruhito, Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko wave to well-wishers during the New Year's celebrations at the Imperial Palace on Monday. | KYODO

*NATIONAL*
*Emperor and Empress to make goodwill visit to Vietnam in early March*
KYODO


Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko are planning to make their first visit to Vietnam in early March, according to a source close to the Imperial Household Agency.

The Imperial Couple have received many invitations from Vietnamese leaders when they have visited Japan, the source said.

It would be their first overseas trip since last January, when they traveled to the Philippines as part of their effort to commemorate the people killed during World War II. They paid respects to all of the fallen, including Filipinos, as part of their mission to promote international friendship.

It would also be their first travel outside the country since the Emperor said last August that he is concerned his advanced age could one day prevent him from fulfilling his public duties. His unprecedented video message prompted the government to establish an advisory panel to study the feasibility of abdication.

The 83-year-old Emperor and the 82-year-old Empress are expected to attend public events in Hanoi. The trip could last five days as they will also travel to the central Vietnam city of Hue, the source said.

Shortly after the Vietnam trip, the Emperor and Empress may attend a memorial ceremony March 11 marking the sixth anniversary of the devastating Great East Japan Earthquake and tsunami.


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## Viet

Industry
*South Korea and Vietnam looking at co-operation*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry 
27 December 2016

South Korea and Vietnam are looking to expand defence links including potential trade, according to official statements.

In Hanoi on 26 December, the two countries held their fifth annual bilateral defence and strategic dialogue, which was attended by Vietnam's deputy defence minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and his visiting counterpart Minister Hwang In-moo.

The South Korean Ministry of National Defence (MND) said the talks are focused on several areas of co-operation including defence equipment and related support as well as finalising an agreement under which South Korea is expected to provide Vietnam with military aid.

The two countries will also expand links in military training and peacekeeping operations, said the MND.

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## Viet

The 6th Kilo attack submarine is about to enter the Indian Ocean, expectedly arrives Singapore in middle January before heading to final destination the Camranh Bay.





Newly Vietnam made mobile long range acquisition radar RV-02, based on Belarus Vostok-e radar system. Range 360km.













One of coastal artillery systems to target enemy ships once being acquired by military radar: 4K51.

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## Viet

Vietnam is one step closer to producing armored troop transporters. Assembly lines are set up in a factory in Danang city.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam in good stead regionally and internationally: Carl Thayer - News VietNamNet*
_Emeritus Professor Carl Thayer from the Australian Defence Force Academy spoke with VET about Vietnam's foreign relations in 2016 and the outlook for 2017.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/go...ionally-and-internationally--carl-thayer.html_

*■ Looking back on 2016, what were the major changes in Vietnam’s political and diplomatic affairs?*

The most positive domestic development for Vietnam in 2016 was the smooth leadership transition in the Party and the State ushered in by National Party Congress XII in January. Vietnam was politically stable during 2016. Secondly, its economy continued to grow at over 6 per cent and the country maintained macro-economic stability.

Vietnam’s diversification and multilateralization of external relations was conducted with great success, especially with major powers and neighbors. Vietnam’s new State President Tran Dai Quang made trips to Brunei, Singapore, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba, and Italy. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, meanwhile, visited China and Russia. Vietnam also received visits by the Presidents of the US, Laos, the Philippines, France and Myanmar, and the Prime Ministers of India and Cambodia.

The most successful foreign policy development was the elevation of India-Vietnam ties to a comprehensive strategic partnership during the official visit to Vietnam by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in September.

In 2016 Vietnam reverted to a collective leadership with a stronger role for the Party Secretary General. Vietnam’s handling of the mass fish deaths in the central and north-central regions, caused by pollution from a steel mill belonging to Formosa Plastics, could have been quicker and more decisive. It appeared that the new leadership had some difficulties coordinating among five or more ministries.

The Ministry of National Defense acted proactively in advancing international defense cooperation. The Minister of Defense exchanged visits with Russia, China and India and received the French Defense Minister. Vietnam advanced defense relations with the UK at a time when both sides felt the strategic partnership had not reached its potential. Vietnam hosted eleven defense delegations from the major powers: one from India, two from Japan, and four each from China and the US. France and Vietnam also held their first strategic Defense Policy Dialogue.

Both President Quang and Prime Minister Phuc made get-to-know-you visits after taking office. President Quang floated the idea of changing ASEAN’s consensus decision-making process while visiting Singapore. This idea has some backers in Singapore and Malaysia. I think all of Vietnam’s top leaders were viewed as competent.

*■ What challenges may Vietnam face in 2017?*

Vietnam faces three major internal challenges: accelerating the equitization of State-owned enterprises to address the debt issue, maintaining momentum in the anti-corruption campaign, and further promoting grassroots democracy by universalizing the direct election of people’s committees at the local level, including the provincial level.

*■ How do you view Vietnam’s foreign relations with major powers in 2017?*

The major foreign policy issue facing Vietnam in 2017 will be managing its relations between China and the US and managing its relations with the US under a Trump Administration. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs should coordinate with relevant ministries to prepare a background brief for US Congress and Cabinet members on the TPP, to show that Vietnam will not be taking jobs away from Americans. At the same time, Vietnam has enlisted Brunei, Malaysia and Singapore to join it in lobbying for a revised TPP among the new elite in Washington. Japan and Australia are likely to support this initiative.

Vietnam-US relations held center stage at the time of President Obama’s visit last May. Since then, Secretary of State John Kerry has given more attention to the Middle East, although he did invite Mr. Dinh The Huynh, Politburo Member and Standing Member of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee’s Secretariat, to visit Washington.

In 2017, Vietnam will find it hard to be heard because it is not on Donald Trump’s list of priorities, except for withdrawing from the TPP. Minister of Foreign Affairs Pham Binh Minh should build personal relations with the new Secretary of State after he is confirmed. In addition to lobbying for a revised TPP, Vietnam should discuss with the Trump Administration what steps it must take to be declared a market economy. Vietnam should canvas the idea of inviting President Trump to make an official visit to Vietnam at the time of the APEC Summit. Failing that, Vietnam should try to arrange sideline meetings with President Trump at the ASEAN leaders’ summit.

With China, Vietnam should continue to use existing mechanisms to ensure that high-level visits by government and Party leaders continues. The Friendly Border Exchanges should expand in scope with more practical activities. When Vietnam makes it commitment of a Level-2 field hospital to UN peacekeeping it should work closely with China, if practical. Vietnam should continue to press China for market access for Vietnamese goods and investment.

China has promised to work with ASEAN on a framework for the Code of Conduct (CoC) by the middle of 2017. China will continue to practice “smile diplomacy” in advance of the 25th commemorative summit of China-ASEAN relations. Vietnam has long been discussing the East Sea issue with China through expert level working groups and has always made it clear that it will not discuss the issue when third parties are involved.

Regionally, Vietnam should continue to develop good bilateral relations with all members of ASEAN. And it should be proactive on the policy front, with ideas and initiatives designed to strengthen the ASEAN Community and its three pillars: political security, economic and socio-cultural.

With Russia, defense cooperation between Vietnam and Russia will continue. Vietnam has the advantage of knowing Russia well and can continue to act as a bridge between Moscow and ASEAN capitals. Vietnam should be alert to any improvement in Russia-US. relations under President Trump, focused on Syria.

In 2014, Vietnam and Japan raised their relations to an Extensive Strategic Partnership in a document running to 69 paragraphs. Later, Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong made a pathbreaking visit to Tokyo and issued a 31-point Joint Vision statement. The only way to strengthen this already solid bilateral relationship is to press for practical results. In 2017 there will be further opportunities for the coast guards of the two countries to conduct exercises at sea and for Vietnam to take delivery of new Japanese patrol boats. There is further scope for cooperation in UN peacekeeping and for Japanese investment in a software park in south-central Khanh Hoa province.

*■ What will be the major points of Vietnam’s foreign relations in the years ahead?*

Looking ahead, Vietnam should be very proactive in Washington in order to gain access to the Trump Administration and seek reassurances about the future direction of bilateral relations. When the new US Congress takes its seat, Vietnam should get to know the chairmen and staff on all relevant committees that touch on relations with Vietnam. Vietnam will have to get to know the new US Ambassador to Vietnam that President Trump will appoint.

Vietnam should use its chairmanship of APEC to make contact with all relevant countries during the year to identify their interests and concerns. The failure of APEC to advance the Doha round of trade liberalization measures led to the TPP and Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) initiatives. Vietnam might be able to steer the direction of trade reform in this new situation.

_VN Economic Times_

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## MacanJawa

Viet said:


> Vietnam is one step closer to producing armored troop transporters. Assembly lines are set up in a factory in Danang city.



nice a local BTR

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Vietnam is one step closer to producing armored troop transporters. Assembly lines are set up in a factory in Danang city.



The assembly line in Danang that the original article refers to is for ARMORED TIRES, not armored vehicles.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The assembly line in Danang that the original article refers to is for ARMORED TIRES, not armored vehicles.


I just re-read the article. you are right 

the protective tires are similar of Russian made NU402 class, they can withstand a close explosion of a 400g TNT or machine gun bullets or mortar fragments. fighting vehicles can leave the dangerous area at a speed of 50 kmh.

new in service: unmanned underwater vehicle UUV Pluto Plus. on-board battery keeps Pluto Plus to work up to 6 hours at a speed of up to 6 knots. Task: minesweeping. Nobody should have idea to blockade Vietnam from the sea side by laying mines. specs: digital camera, three sonars, can identify and detect objects below of 300 meters. an upgraded variant called Pluto Pluto Plus can dive to a depth to 600 meters.

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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> nice a local BTR


Too early. Maybe in a few years.


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## Viet

Su-30 flight simulator






Uran-e antiship missile






On exercise






Training

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## Viet

*New evidence indicates Nixon himself tried to sabotage Vietnam War peace talks*
January 03, 2017 · 5:00 PM EST
By Christopher Woolf






_A corpsman treats a wounded Marine in the city of Hue, Vietnam, in June 1968. 
Credit: Department of Defense_

On Nov. 2, 1968, President Lyndon B. Johnson made a private phone call to a friend of Richard Milhous Nixon, and bluntly accused the Republican presidential candidate of treason.

*Treason*

There was no doubt, said Johnson, that Nixon’s campaign team was trying to scupper peace talks aimed at ending the Vietnam War. They were afraid that peace in Vietnam would help Nixon’s Democratic rival, Hubert Humphrey, to clinch the election.

Johnson threatened to go public with his information. The election was just days away.

But Johnson never did go public. He received an emphatic denial from Nixon in person the next day. And perhaps more importantly, Johnson never had the definitive evidence he needed tying Nixon himself to the efforts being made by his campaign team.

A new discovery by historian John Farrell might well be the smoking gun that Johnson needed. It's published in The New York Times.

The peace process in 1968 was real. The Soviet Union had persuaded North Vietnam to come to the table, the US just needed to deliver South Vietnam. At the beginning of November, both sides made goodwill gestures to prepare for the talks. The Communists stopped shelling cities and halted attacks across the Demilitarized Zone between North and South Vietnam. Johnson ordered a halt to the massive US aerial bombing campaign. “We’ve had 24 hours of relative peace,” he said in that Nov. 2 call to Nixon’s friend, Sen. Everett Dirksen (R-Ill.). “If Nixon keeps the South Vietnamese away from the conference, well, that’s going to be his responsibility. Up to this point, that’s why they’re not there.”

Farrell has found notes kept by close Nixon aide H.R. Haldeman. Haldeman later became Nixon’s chief of staff and was one of those later found guilty in the Watergate conspiracy trial.

On Oct. 22, 1968, Haldeman made notes of a phone conversation with Nixon. Several of these appear to show Nixon himself talking about ways to scupper the peace process. He even asks, “Any other way to monkey wrench it?” and, “Anything RN can do?”

One instruction that Haldeman noted from his boss: “Keep Anna Chennault working on SVN” — South Vietnam.

That’s a reference to Republican doyenne Anna Chennault, the widow of a World War II hero who’d fought in East Asia. She had very close ties to the government of South Vietnam, and was identified by US intelligence as one of the principal people trying to persuade the South Vietnamese to delay or boycott the peace talks in Paris.

One intercepted message from her to the South Vietnamese embassy was said to be from “her boss,” and it read, “Hold on, we are gonna win.”

To his dying day, Nixon insisted he had nothing to do with efforts to sabotage the 1968 peace talks. “My god,” he told Johnson on Nov. 3, 1968, “I would never do anything to encourage [South Vietnam] not to come to the table.” Farrell argues that that too was a lie, writing in the Times that "given the human lives at stake and the decade of carnage that followed in Southeast Asia, [his efforts to hurt the peace talks] may be more reprehensible than anything Nixon did in Watergate."

Historians surveyed by the Times show a range of responses to Farrell’s revelation. Some have reservations, but most agree with author Ken Hughes that Farrell has found the long-sought “smoking gun.” Historians acknowledge that Johnson was himself using the peace talks as a tool to help Democratic candidate Humphrey. That’s distasteful, but not illegal for the executive office.





_Picture (National Archives/Getty Images) President Richard Nixon wanted to continue to support South Vietnam's war efforts. However, with anti-war sentiments growing in the United States and sustained casualties in Vietnam, Nixon felt pressure to bring an end to the war and started to plan an exit with National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger and Maj. Gen. Alexander Haig._


But as a private citizen, candidate Nixon would have been in violation of federal law if proven to have taken steps to “defeat the measures of the United States.” Both men were willing to use issues of war and peace as a mere political football.

Of course, it’s not clear that the talks in Paris could have led to peace or even a temporary cessation of hostilities. Many historians say it’s implausible. Tragically, the world never got a chance to find out. The South Vietnamese did boycott the talks, which collapsed. The war went on.

More than 21,200 Americans died in Vietnam and elsewhere in Southeast Asia after the collapse of the Paris peace talks, along with hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese.

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## Viet

*Swearing they'd never go back, many veterans now call Vietnam's Vung Tau home * 
After serving in the war, most Australian veterans swore they’d never go back to Vietnam. But scores have since moved permanently to the southern port city of Vung Tau.

December 10 2016 *Lindsay Murdoch*

*Raymond Low says he saw the first body fall* from a grey helicopter that swooped low over Vung Tau beach, where his RAAF squadron mates were drinking beer and barbecuing Australian steaks under an awning.

Low was bobbing up and down on a surfboard in the choppy waters that humid day at the height of the Vietnam War in 1968, and thought at first he was seeing a US Navy commando undergoing free-fall training. However, as a US Navy patrol boat circled nearby, no one surfaced where the body splashed into the water.

50 - 60 Vietnam veterans now call Vietnam home. Living on old battlegrounds the move has laid their ghosts to rest.

Low says he doesn't know whether it was an American or South Vietnamese helicopter, but minutes later it returned, swooping over the beach at a height of about 400 feet. "I saw a second body fall," he recalls. "This time I noticed there were no flailing arms or anything like that. The man's hands were tied behind his back."

Then a leading aircraftman in his early 20s who'd grown up in the inner suburbs of Sydney, Low recalls sitting on the surfboard thinking, _"What kind of a war am I in?"_ Low says he learnt later that suspected Viet Cong infiltrators were sometimes taken on deadly helicopter rides for interrogation. The practice was to push one of the suspects out of the door, screaming to his death, as a way of convincing others to talk.










Vung tao




He spent only nine days in Vietnam during the war, working on Caribou aircraft at the airstrip at Vung Tau, a city in southern Vietnam wedged between two mountains on a strip of land jutting into the South China Sea. Back then, Vung Tau had an airstrip, logistics base and about 100 seedy beachfront bars that had sprung up to cater for US and Australian forces on rest-and-recreation leave during the war. Almost half a century later, sipping a beer in the Australian-run Tommy's, a bar and restaurant near the same waterfront, Low says that when he flew out of Vietnam that year, he never thought he'd return. "I was profoundly affected by what I saw. I couldn't talk about it for years."

Now 71, Low is one of about 50 Australian veterans of the war who have returned to the country of their former enemy and settled in Vung Tau, a prosperous regional city of more than 470,000 people situated some 30 kilometres from Nui Dat, the wartime base for Australian forces. Scores of other Australian retirees, most of them divorced from Australian women, have followed the veterans, with high-rise apartment buildings and luxury hotels catering for a booming tourist industry and workers on oil rigs off the coast. Its beaches are packed at weekends with residents from crowded Ho Chi Minh City, two hours' drive away.


But Vung Tau also has a seedy underbelly and is a single man's paradise for many of the Australians frequenting bars with names like Sweethearts, Red Parrot, Hot Lips and Bearded Clam, where young, scantily clad Vietnamese prostitutes vie for their attention. Some spend their days drinking $1 beers, complaining about how bad things are in Australia, in sometimes sexist and racist rants. "I can't even call a waitress 'love' without offence being taken over there," says one veteran.

Glenn Nolan, 58, a war historian and former soldier who served in 6th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment (RAR) after the Vietnam War, says some Australians who arrive in Vung Tau after going through a bad divorce at home fall in love with the first girl they meet in a bar.






1966: a helicopter lands at Nui Dat, Australia's wartime base, some 30 kilometres inland from Vung Tau. Photo: Graeme Cuscak 


"He sees love, she sees ATM. I've seen houses gone and fortunes lost. If they take their time, they can meet some very nice Vietnamese ladies outside the bars who are absolutely beautiful. But for others, it's Groundhog Day. They go to bars at 10am for a few beers, go home for a nap at 1pm and are back drinking at 4pm until stumps, seven days a week. It's pretty sad to see some of them."

The veterans here have an unwritten code of conduct. Anyone disrespecting Vietnamese women is bluntly told to behave or leave town. Some with drinking problems who lose control are escorted to the airport and put on a plane back to Australia. One Australian who spread a sexually transmitted disease among prostitutes was ordered out of town.

Ho Chi Hoang Kim, 29, a waitress at the popular Belly's Watering Hole, often sings _Úc-dai-loi, Cheap Charlie,_ a song made famous during the war years about stingy Australian soldiers from the country of "big rats" (there is no word in Vietnamese for kangaroo). "Sure, some of the Aussies are Cheap Charlies but they are good men," she says. "You see them help poor people on the streets all the time."

Some Australians living in Vung Tau have happy long-term partnerships with local women. Dozens work in charities, helping impoverished local families, and in an orphanage where children have deformities believed to have been caused by Agent Orange, the chemical defoliant sprayed by the US military during the war to eliminate forest coverage for North Vietnamese troops.


Some, like Nolan, conduct tours of the former battlefields for Australian tourists, including Long Tan, 40 kilometres north-east of Vung Tau. It was here, on August 18, 1966, that 105 Australians and three New Zealanders fought off wave after wave of Viet Cong fighters in a battle that came to symbolise Australia's 10-year involvement in the Vietnam War.

*Raymond Low, who spent 22 years* working on aircraft in the RAAF in Australia and overseas before leaving the service in 1995, says it was only in 2002 that television programs rekindled his interest in Vietnam. He says he then began making frequent trips there, booking into a cheap hotel in Vung Tau for weeks at a time.





Rod Harlor, 68, mortar platoon, 9th Battalion, RAR, 1969. Photo: Kate Geraghty

"Every trip was better than the previous one," he says, adding that he now lives in Vung Tau for months at a time, but travels back to Australia for business and to deal with health problems, including a lung condition. (Medical treatment in Australia is free for veterans receiving TPI – Totally and Permanently Incapacitated – pensions.) "The people are generally friendly, although in any developing country you find people who will scam you if they can. I've made good friends here. The cost of living is low. And I feel totally relaxed … this is where my heart is now."

Some of the stories Vietnam veterans tell about the war are recycled, embellished; old Asia hands are sceptical, for instance, about Low's account of bodies being thrown from a helicopter, especially over an area where troops went for R&R. But Low insists the story is true and he has a US magazine article with a photo of a suspected North Vietnamese infiltrator falling from a helicopter.





Russell Hutchison, 67, RAN, 1965 and 1967. Photo: Kate Geraghty

Peter Taylor, a machine-gunner with 5th Battalion RAR, left Vietnam in March 1970 on the light-aircraft carrier HMAS Sydney, marking the end of his 11-month tour of duty at Australia's Nui Dat base. "I remember sitting on the back of the boat watching [Vietnam] disappear and saying to myself, 'I will never return, never ever,' " he says. "That lasted 35 years."

Taylor, 68, doesn't want to talk about the war, how he was wounded or how some mates never came home. "It takes a lot to get rid of some of the terrible things you did and saw," he says. He's sitting with his partner of two years, Chau, 34, at a table in a corner of Belly's, which serves lamb shanks and is an unofficial clubhouse for many of the veterans.





Raymond Low, 71, aircraftsman, 35 Squadron, RAAF, 1968. Photo: Kate Geraghty

For decades after the war, living in Canberra, Taylor hated the Vietnamese. "We'd been told all the propaganda … that they were bad buggers and we should kill them. That they eat babies and sell their sisters, all that stuff. But it was wrong. They're a beautiful race of people and they need our help."

Taylor, who has three adult sons from two marriages in Australia, returned to Vietnam in 2005 with a couple of mates to attend a ceremony at Long Tan. He wanted to leave after two days. "The smell was still here; everything like that," he says. But he stayed for several weeks and, after repeated trips, now calls Vung Tau home.





Peter Taylor, 68, machine-gunner, 5th Battalion, RAR, 1969-70. Photo: Kate Geraghty

"There is no pressure here as long as you keep your nose clean and don't get into any trouble with the police, or anything like that. If you want a taxi, you just walk out and get one – unlike in Australia, where you have to wait an hour. And I don't like the way Australia is changing. I just don't agree with the people they are bringing to Australia these days. They are not workers – not like the Vietnamese when they came to Australia on boats [after the Vietnam War]."

Taylor is a key figure in the Vung Tau Veterans & Friends Children's Fund, a charity run by Australians that repairs houses for poor local families, among other things. "If street kids need an operation or something like that, we can hold a fund-raiser and get the money at the drop of a hat," he says. "The boys will all chip in."






Glenn Nolan, 58, war historian. Photo: Kate Geraghty

Glenn Nolan, who married a local restaurant owner 11 years ago, says Australians living here feel they have more freedom than at home. "Australia has become too much of a nanny state, where you have a minority dictating to the majority. One example is the Muslim issue: you can't say anything. You're gagged."

Here, he says, you can have a few beers and drive without worrying about losing your licence. "You know you've had enough when you fall off your motorbike," he laughs.

*Russell Hutchinson, 67, *says those people who criticise him for marrying Hanh, a local woman 42 years younger than him, "can all get stuffed". Hutchison was a raw navy recruit aged 16 when he made a brief port visit to Vung Tau in 1965, returning in 1967. He believes he is sterile as a result of water contaminated with Agent Orange that was recycled on the ships he served on, and admits he is quick to become angry.

He met Hanh in a bar in Vung Tau bar seven years ago. Hutchison, who has an irregular heartbeat and other health problems, receives a TPI pension of $877 a fortnight. (Many of the Australian veterans in Vung Tau receive the TPI pension, which entitles them to benefits that include medical care. Hanh will be eligible for an Australian war widow's pension if Hutchison dies before she does.)

"Hanh would die for me – I mean that," Hutchison says, sipping beer in a bar below the single-room apartment he rents near Belly's Watering Hole. "But she must be thinking, 'If I put up with this old bastard for another 10 or 20 years' – she knows my health problems – 'and then he kicks the bucket', she will only be in her 30s or 40s and she'll be set for the rest of her life, with a war widow's pension that will allow her to look after her family. That is a fortune in this country. Here, the family comes first. I know that. I don't care. I love her to bits."

Later, over a meal of prawns, I ask Hanh what she thinks of Hutchison, a former bus driver on the NSW Central Coast. "I love him. I take care of him," she says. Hutchison says he can "count on the fingers of two hands" relationships between Australians and local women that have lasted for years in Vung Tau. One Australian bought a house for his new bride but a week later came home from the bars to find that all his clothes were on the footpath and he was locked out. "This shit happens all the time," Hutchison says. "Other marriages work okay. That's life."

Impoverished families from the Mekong Delta send their daughters to Vung Tau to work in the bars, he says. "It's hard, but they do whatever they have to do to get money to send back to the family. They go to bed with blokes. It's as simple as that." Hutchison adds that he has seen girls as young as 15 working in the bars. It was in Vung Tau, in 2005, that former pop star Gary Glitter, whose real name is Paul Gadd, was convicted of sexually molesting two girls aged 11 and 12. He was jailed for nearly three years before being deported.

*Long Tan is silent now, *only a late-afternoon breeze rustling through nearby rubber trees. Here, half a century ago, 108 soldiers of D Company, 6th Battalion RAR, hunkered down for four hours in a tropical downpour, outnumbered at least 10 to one. At the end, piles of enemy soldiers lay in red mud, mutilated by a barrage of artillery fire.

All but 17 Australians survived (another soldier died later from his wounds) and by Australia's official count, 245 Vietnamese were killed and three captured.

But decades later, the battle remains a sensitive issue for Vietnam, which still claims in propaganda that its forces were the victors. The country's rulers cancelled official events marking the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan last August 18, angering several thousand Australian veterans and family members who had planned to attend a commemorative ceremony at the site of the fighting where an unmarked white cross stands.

Now, despite the high-level political intrigue over the battle, Australian veterans have forged ties with their former enemies. Plans are underway for a joint Australian-Vietnamese war memorial and an RSL-like centre in Vung Tau, where former foes can meet socially.

Rod "Rocket" Harlor, 68, who mostly fought in Vietnam with a platoon of 9th Battalion RAR and was based at Nui Dat in 1969, says one of the reasons he has made Vung Tau his home is because of friendships he has made with the Vietnamese, including some former North Vietnamese soldiers. "Most of the people here don't know of the war – they were not born when it happened," Harlor says, standing arm in arm at the Long Tan cross with Vo Xuan Thu, a veteran of the North Vietnam Army who has memories of battles with Australians. "Vietnam is a very young society. The Australian veterans have no problems with the locals, including our former enemies like Mr Thu here, who is a good friend to us."

Harlor says the Vietnamese saw the Australians as the "honourable" enemy in a largely American war. "We did the right thing by the POWs and civilians," he says.

Thu insists on commenting, too. "I am very happy to be with [the Australians]. They are my friends and I really appreciate their friendship, their understanding and their feelings," he says in the Vietnamese language.

Harlor, whose wife passed away in Australia years ago, says he can't get the smile off his face when he walks around Vung Tau, which has better infrastructure than most Vietnamese cities. He pays $400 a month for a furnished apartment with a pool and Wi-Fi. Competent medical and dental services are cheap compared to Australia; a bowl of noodles costs less than $2, a beer $1. "The kids give you a high-five on the street and somebody will just pull up on a motorcycle out of the blue and want to have a chat in English," he says. "It's a wonderful place to live. I swore I'd never come back after the war, but here I am."

*The radio crackled "contact" in the Battalion Operations Centre* at Nui Dat at 3.20pm on August 18, 1966. Graeme "Breaker" Cusack, a second lieutenant with 6th Battalion RAR, was first to hear that Australia's fiercest battle of the Vietnam War was underway.

Cusack clearly remembers the dramatic events that unfolded in the following hours but says he has lost all memory of the next day, when he went to the battlefield while soldiers were carrying out the gruesome task of collecting body parts (most of the Vietnamese casualties had been hit by fierce artillery barrages).

Years later, in Australia, a counsellor suggested that Cusack return to Vietnam "to put the ghosts of the war to rest". "I replied, 'I am not going back to that so-and-so country,' " he says. But in 2004, he watched Mel Gibson's movie _We Were Soldiers_, which tells the story of the US's first major battle of the war. Then a Tour Vietnam brochure arrived, unsolicited, in the post.

He called a mate who'd also served in the war and booked a trip, arriving 38 years to the day after he had flown out of Vietnam. On that initial return trip, he met a Vietnamese woman in her late 30s called Ha. Within two days of returning to Australia, he decided to sell everything and move to Vietnam, leaving behind three failed marriages and bouts of suicidal depression.

Cusack married Ha in 2005, but that marriage didn't work out, either, and in 2011 he married his second Vietnamese wife, Phuong. They live 30 kilometres from Vung Tau in a house where he displays his war medals and memorabilia. On a clear day, from his garden, he can see a mountain range 15 kilometres away. It was there, during the war, that the North Vietnamese occupied a series of secret tunnels and bases from which they launched attacks on the Australians at Nui Dat. In return, "we bombed the shit out of them", he says.

Aged 78 and suffering the early stages of a nervous disorder, Cusack says he has never looked back since moving in 2004 to Vung Tau, where he has conducted battlefield tours and volunteered his time to be caretaker of the Long Tan cross.

Four years ago, Phuong gave birth to a girl, Anna. "I never thought I would have a baby at my age," says Cusack. "But she is just the most beautiful girl in the world. She helps keep me young. I love it. This is home now. I will die here."

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## Viet

Question:
How much is Vietnam´s national oil/gas reserve in storage?

PetroVietnam alone has about 10-15 million tons (72-107 million barrels). the number is expected to increase.

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## Silent Knight

Two Su-27SKs have arrived in A32 facility. Expect them to get new paint job (similar to the newer Su-30MK2V batches) and modernized avionics.







A Su-27PU has been upgraded and repainted last year by A32.

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## Viet

One more domestic trained submarine crew has completed training on Kilo attack submarine, bringing the total number to 7. Two more crews are undergoing intensive training. Once completion Vietnam can field 9 attack submarines at sea at any moment notice.

Well we need of course more attack submarines.


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## Viet

@Silent Knight

You once asked for it. I believe that below is a part of the article in the paper edition of Der Spiegel, where Yue Gang, a retired PLA Colonel, claims in the interview China has to respond to military build-up of America and Vietnam in the South China sea. whereas not America, but Vietnam poses the biggest threat to China in the region. the full article can be purchased. True or not I don't know, but that is interesting opinion coming from a former member of the General Staff of China's people liberation army.


 * China: „Trump sollte in die Geschichtsbücher schauen“* 
DER SPIEGEL - Interview Meldung Ausland - 17.12.2016
Warum China Kriegsgerät auf den Spratly Inseln stationiert; Yue Gang, 53, Oberst a. D. im Generalstab der Volksbefreiungsarmee, über Chinas Aufrüstung im Südchinesischen Meer SPIEGEL: Diese Woche kam heraus, dass Peking Flugabwehrraketen und… mehr...

Den vollständigen Artikel lesen Sie in der Ausgabe 51/2016.


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam 147th Naval infantry Brigade. This unit equipment is pretty much like the Army branch.

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## Viet

Vietnam Foreign Office announces the outgoing US Foreign Minister John Kerry will make a surprise visit Hanoi next week. not only a farewell trip, maybe he has an important message of the new US administration under Donald Trump he wants to deliver. because Vietnam communist chief Nguyen Phu Trong will fly to Beijing middle of next week for 4 days, consulting his counterpart Xi Jinping. the early visit to Beijing is one of the many high level consultations agreed between VN and CN this year.

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## Viet

Exercise, air defence unit, and below Harpoon acquistion radar and 4K51 Rubezh antiship missile

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## Viet

greeting to the sailors before departing

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## Viet

Vietnam´s Guided Missile Frigates Gepard class at Novorossiysk, Black Sea.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> @Silent Knight
> 
> You once asked for it. I believe that below is a part of the article in the paper edition of Der Spiegel, where Yue Gang, a retired PLA Colonel, claims in the interview China has to respond to military build-up of America and Vietnam in the South China sea. whereas not America, but Vietnam poses the biggest threat to China in the region. the full article can be purchased. True or not I don't know, but that is interesting opinion coming from a former member of the General Staff of China's people liberation army.
> 
> 
> * China: „Trump sollte in die Geschichtsbücher schauen“*
> DER SPIEGEL - Interview Meldung Ausland - 17.12.2016
> Warum China Kriegsgerät auf den Spratly Inseln stationiert; Yue Gang, 53, Oberst a. D. im Generalstab der Volksbefreiungsarmee, über Chinas Aufrüstung im Südchinesischen Meer SPIEGEL: Diese Woche kam heraus, dass Peking Flugabwehrraketen und… mehr...
> 
> Den vollständigen Artikel lesen Sie in der Ausgabe 51/2016.


Looks like I'd have to buy Der Spiegel membership to get access to the article 

But yeah, his words are reasonable, although it might not reflect the whole picture in Spratly now.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Looks like I'd have to buy Der Spiegel membership to get access to the article
> 
> But yeah, his words are reasonable, although it might not reflect the whole picture in Spratly now.


stay tune, maybe I can get the article somewhere without signing up a membership. I put a note here to memorize it later. the article can be found on page 74.




anyway, Yue Gang is eagle among those of PLA officer corps, who wants to see a more active role of the army in the world. even tasks that should be dealt by police forces, such as against pirates, terrorists and armed kidnappers. he promotes military intevention in countries where lives and properties of ethnic chinese are threatened. such as in case of May 1998 riots in Indonesia. Imagine, China sends a naval carrier strike group, staging airstrikes and bombings against Indonesia targets, should someone there run amok again. he speaks things out when politicans never do in public. there is a proverb in France: war is too serious to let it controlled by army generals 

http://www.china.org.cn/opinion/2013-04/24/content_28642897.htm


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## Svantana

nah, thats never happen.

https://indopress.id/isu-cina-akan-kirim-pasukannya-ke-indonesia-kemlu-bilang-hoax/

*The news reports about China send troops to Indonesia* was known* Hoax* after the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Foreign Ministry) make clarifications to the Chinese Embassy in Jakarta. Melelui Twitter account @Portal_Kemlu_RI Ministry of Foreign Affairs to convey the results of clarifications. In a screen shoot at an image uploaded by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on his Twitter account, writing* "the Foreign Ministry has Clarifying the PRC embassy in Jakarta and confirmed that this was a hoax, PRC prime minister never talk like that or about it."*

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## Silent Knight

Not really a good news imo.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Not really a good news imo.


not necessary a bad thing in my opinion. China supports Pakistan, what´s wrong if India returns the favour supporting Vietnam in military build-up? besides that is a game being played between nations since hundreds if not thousands of years. a strong Vietnam will ease military pressure China imposes on India. Don´t forget, an aggressor will feel confident, firing the first shot, attacking its opponent if he senses his opponent is weak. Vietnam is vulnerable to be attacked if being perceived as weak and defenceless. It is not preparing for war, but making strong when it comes to a showdown.

in the meantime, it is more a political posture when we sit with the Chinese on the negotiation table.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> ...


Mainly technical things. AFAIK, the Akash is just a modernized 2K12 Kub (SA-6 Gainful) system. Looks like the Indian wants to sell some Akash systems before negotiating about the BrahMos technology transfer. Thus we'll have to adapt some old technology before getting our hand on these BrahMos, unless we alreadh had some SA-6 systems and need manufacturing capability to supply them.

On another news:



> Russian company delivers rocket test monitoring stations to Vietnam
> 
> MOSCOW, January 9. /TASS/. Four Sazhen-TA mobile stations intended for visual measurements during rocket armament tests were supplied and deployed in Vietnam by Russia’s NPK Precision Instrument-Making Systems, the company said on Monday.
> 
> "Startup work was completed and four video theodolite posts 14Sh27 [Sazhen-TA mobile optical-electronic system - TASS] were put into service," the company said on its website.
> 
> Russian specialists also trained Vietnam’s counterparts in equipment handling and participated in launches of observation targets.
> 
> Sazhen-TA mobile system for outer trajectory measurements provides for measurements of the range and angular coordinates of targets in visible and IR bands and for recording of target flight phases.
> 
> More:
> http://tass.com/defense/924099



Meaning some medium range missile tests are coming, or they can act as some kind or missile EW system, but don't take my word for that, I don't know anything

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Mainly technical things. AFAIK, the Akash is just a modernized 2K12 Kub (SA-6 Gainful) system. Looks like the Indian wants to sell some Akash systems before negotiating about the BrahMos technology transfer. Thus we'll have to adapt some old technology before getting our hand on these BrahMos, unless we alreadh had some SA-6 systems and need manufacturing capability to supply them.
> 
> On another news:
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning some medium range missile tests are coming, or they can act as some kind or missile EW system, but don't take my word for that, I don't know anything


Honestly for me as a nobody it is extremely difficult to assess this and that weapon system from India how good or how bad they are or whether they are suitable for Vietnam at all. I always view India from a strategic perspective never from a weapon standpoint. I think if we can get the technology to produce the missile systems later, be Akash or Brahmos, then it is a good deal. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to induct more missile systems that we can't handle. From the article, the proposed joint production sounds good. A good start at least.

As for Russian missile test EM set, can you reveal a bit more?


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## fadine

> MOSCOW, January 9. /TASS/. Four Sazhen-TA mobile stations intended for visual measurements during rocket armament tests were supplied and deployed in Vietnam by Russia’s NPK Precision Instrument-Making Systems, the company said on Monday.
> 
> "Startup work was completed and four video theodolite posts 14Sh27 [Sazhen-TA mobile optical-electronic system - TASS] were put into service," the company said on its website.
> 
> Russian specialists also trained Vietnam’s counterparts in equipment handling and participated in launches of observation targets.
> 
> Sazhen-TA mobile system for outer trajectory measurements provides for measurements of the range and angular coordinates of targets in visible and IR bands and for recording of target flight phases.
> 
> More:
> http://tass.com/defense/924099

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> As for Russian missile test EM set, can you reveal a bit more?


It's pure speculation so far, as TASS mentioned that all 4 systems are "in active duty", not just "Vietnam is interested in" or "intend to buy" such systems. 

That's why I said this could be a significant news, especially it was revealed just 2 days before the General Secretary visits China.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> It's pure speculation so far, as TASS mentioned that all 4 systems are "in active duty", not just "Vietnam is interested in" or "intend to buy" such systems.
> 
> That's why I said this could be a significant news, especially it was revealed just 2 days before the General Secretary visits China.


sounds nice. Sazhen-TA mobile system can monitor missile flight path up to a distance of 1,000 km away. perfect for our ballistic land attack missiles such as EXTRA and others


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## Viet

History

38 years ago, on January 7, 1979, Vietnamese tank army launched the final assault on the last strongholds of the Red Khmer Army in the capital of Cambodia, Phnom Penh. Pol Pot and his government managed to escape in the last minutes in two helicopters. two bad, approaching Vietnamese MIG-21 fighter jets came minutes too late, failing to shoot them down.






http://www.business-standard.com/ar...hmer-rouge-on-victory-day-117010700297_1.html

I think we did the right thing, although the international community condemned and imposed hard sanctions on Vietnam back in the days. plus suffering under China invasion. at least we have someone like Hun Sen, the Prime Minister of Cambodia, who expresses gratitude remembering of our scarifies.

“This is the first time in the history of more than 500 years, after the prosperous time of Angkor, that Cambodia has realised full peace and national and territorial unity, as well as lived in harmony under one constitution. January 7 is the second life of all Cambodian people in Cambodia, living again from the Khmer Rouge regime... (It) gave life and freedom to the people".


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> sounds nice. Sazhen-TA mobile system can monitor missile flight path up to a distance of 1,000 km away. perfect for our ballistic land attack missiles such as EXTRA and others


* cough * SRBM *cough *

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## Viet

*Brothers-in-Arms: Vietnam Ramps Up Its Defense Potential With Russian Help*
RUSSIA 15:03 10.01.2017 (updated 15:05 10.01.2017)

Vietnam now ranks seventeenth in the complete Global Firepower (GFP) list and second in Southeast Asia after Indonesia, thanks much to modern arms supplies from Russia.






© SPUTNIK/ RAMIL SITDIKOV Russia's T-90 Battle Tank Interests Vietnam Because It's 'More Modern' Than Rivals 


The Global Firepower (GFP) list puts the military powers of the world into full perspective depending on their defense outlays, air and naval might, number and quality of Air Force bases and seaports, etc.

Commenting on the information contained in the Global Firepower 2016 report, AEC News Today wrote that with its history of victorious wars fought against France, the US and China, Vietnam possesses a military force to reckon with. 

In an interview with Sputnik Vietnam, former Deputy Defense Minister, Col. Gen. Nguyen Van Duoc said that his country owned much of its military potential to the assistance it once received from the Soviet Union and the weapons now being supplied it by the Russian Federation. “We have the very same feelings of love and respect for Russia that we once had for the Soviet Union. Our military-technical cooperation is expanding all the time with Russia providing us with everything we need: tanks, warplanes, naval ships, submarines and air-defense systems. Much of what they have in the Russian Army we now also have here in Vietnam,” he said.

Meanwhile, a Kilo-class Russian diesel-electric submarine, armed with Kalibr missiles, the last of the six such vessels ordered by Hanoi, is on the way to Vietnam. These submarines are extremely silent and are very aptly called “black holes” by Western military specialists. A second pair of Gepard-class frigates is now in the final stages of their trials in the Black Sea and will soon be handed over to the Vietnamese Navy, in addition to as many supplied earlier.

The Soviet Union started supplying North Vietnam with firearms and anti-aircraft systems back in the early 1950s. In 1954 Soviet Katyusha multiple rocket launchers helped the North Vietnamese forces win the Battle of Dien Bien Phu — the final battle of the First Indochina War. During the 1960s and 1970s, Soviet missiles and warplanes shot down an estimated 1,700 US military aircraft and it was Soviet tanks that rammed the gates of the Doc Lap presidential palace in Saigon on April 1975, the day when the North Vietnamese Army took the capital of South Vietnam.

In recent years Russia and Vietnam have signed a raft of arms-delivery contracts worth over 4.5 billion dollars. The list of Russian military supplies to Vietnam include Tor, Buk and S-300 air defense systems and the sides are currently negotiating the supply of the state-of-the-art S-400 missile systems.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/201701101049432881-russia-vietnam-arms/

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## Carlosa

*Why Vietnam Has Turned Its Strategic Attention to the Sea*
*http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/why-vietnam-has-turned-its-strategic-attention-to-the-sea/
*
Vietnam has shifted its strategic attention to the sea, but what can it hope to accomplish against China’s array of aircraft and warships? In a recent _Naval War College Review_ article, Wu Shang-su, research fellow at Nanyang Technological University, examined why Vietnam has turned to the sea, how it has decided to approach defense against China, and what it might do in the future.

Vietnam began to shift its strategic attention to the sea in the years following the Sino-Vietnam War. The inconclusive nature of that war, combined with a relatively amicable process of border delineation with China, convinced Hanoi that China would no longer pose a critical threat from the land. The People’s Army of Vietnam (VPA) held presumptive superiority over the armed forces of Laos and, following withdrawal, Cambodia, making those borders relatively safe, as well.

At the same time, Vietnam’s economic strategy developed in two directions that made a maritime focus appealing. First, Vietnam began to integrate itself more heavily into the global economy, making access to shipping a critical need. Second, Vietnam became increasingly interested in exploiting offshore resources, which required the defense of islands and other geographic features in the South China Sea.

This shift to the sea came as Beijing began the massive military buildup that continues to this day. At the extreme, China could attempt a full blockade against Vietnamese ports, but more likely any conflict would involve fights over island outposts. With an economy a small fraction of its northern neighbor’s, and a small defense industry, Vietnam’s options were limited. However, Hanoi borrowed pages from Soviet (and Chinese) Cold War maritime strategy, focusing on capabilities that could deny the sea to the Chinese, or at least deter China by threatening serious damage to the PLAN.

Vietnam has the weapons necessary to destroy Chinese aircraft and warships. Air-, sea-, and land-launched missiles can inflict grievous damage on major PLAN assets, just as long-range SAMs can threaten the PLAAF’s most expensive warplanes. The problem is that Vietnam lacks the surveillance assets necessary to deliver good targeting data to its long-range weapon systems. The Vietnamese military has limited access to satellites, a shortage of patrol aircraft, and a dearth of advanced, long-range sensors. This makes it very difficult for the Vietnamese military to identify, target, and destroy Chinese ships and planes.

Dr. Wu also suggested that Vietnam’s dependence on Russian weaponry could hamper the effectiveness of its resistance efforts. Most of Vietnam’s most advanced weapons, including late model Flanker variants, Kilo submarines, and S-300 air defense systems, come from Russia. Unfortunately, China has in most cases acquired exactly the same systems from Russia, and often has more familiarity with them. This familiarity undercuts some of the advantages that the Vietnamese might derive from these systems.

Together, these concerns lead in the same direction: the diversification of Vietnamese military procurement, with a focus on reconnaissance technology. Vietnam has already reached out to India, the Netherlands, and most recently to the United States in order to meet these needs. However, whether Vietnam can make the long-term commitment to increased spending in order to deter China remains in question.

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## Viet

On his trip to close allies and friends in the Pacific, Japan government chief Shinzo Abe will pay a visit to Hanoi for political talks before the new U.S. President-elect Donald Trump takes office on Jan. 20. Perfect, we will have a chance to question Mr Abe, why his government has just approved the largest ever military budget since end of world war II

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> * cough * SRBM *cough *


we should call our SRBM as peacemaker 

Today I went to a public library and photographed the article with the PLA man Yue Gang.


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> we should call our SRBM as peacemaker


Many thanks, my friend.

I'd see if I can read German now.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Many thanks, my friend.
> 
> I'd see if I can read German now.


I can translate the whole article if you like, let me know. almost are chinese propaganda, can be ignored, the most two important statements of our PLA friend Yue Gang are in the second and third images I posted:

*"Die größte Bedrohung geht derzeit von Vietnam aus."*
Vietnam now poses the biggest threat.

*"Vietnam ist bis an die Zähne bewaffnet."*
Vietnam is armed to the teeth.

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## Viet

*John Kerry to visit Vietnam in last move of Obama "Pivot to Asia"*
by Michael Peel in Bangkok
https://www.ft.com/content/5a749c66-d881-11e6-944b-e7eb37a6aa8e






Cam Ranh Bay port has emerged as strategic focus in region of disputed seas


John Kerry is to bring down the curtain on the Obama administration’s pivot to Asia with a trip to Vietnam, a country at the heart of the international security struggle over the region’s seas. The deepwater port in Cam Ranh Bay, which has served as a base for Russia, Japan and the US during a storied history, has emerged once again as part of a strategic scramble between great powers.

The visit by the outgoing US secretary of state, a Vietnam war veteran, is a last nod to a history of conflict that Washington has sought to overcome as it has wooed Southeast Asian states on security, trade and counter-terrorism. Analysts are seeking clues on whether Donald Trump’s White House will shift the US approach to the region — and to Beijing’s territorial claims in the South and East China Seas.

Jonathan London, a Vietnam specialist and academic at Leiden University in the Netherlands, said the visit would be a “momentous one, substantively, symbolically, and personally”. “While the pivot to Asia has been regarded as a failure, one of its undeniable and potentially enduring achievements has been precisely the development of warmer ties between Washington and Hanoi — to a point where the former adversaries came to regard each other as indispensable, if at times awkward, strategic partners,” he said.

Mr Kerry was due to arrive in Hanoi late on Thursday and to meet Nguyen Xuan Phuc, prime minister, and Bui Thanh Son, acting foreign minister, on Friday. He is scheduled to make a trip to Ca Mau province in the Mekong delta, where he fought during the war in a US Swift gunboat unit — a deployment that won him decorations but became a subject of dispute during his losing 2004 election campaign against President George W Bush. Mr Kerry, who campaigned against the war after his return to the US, played a big part in the Obama administration’s efforts to improve relations with Hanoi. The president visited Vietnam last year and announced an end to the 50-year-old US arms embargo.

Tillerson sets stage for clash with Beijing over South China Sea Trump nominee for top US diplomat threatens end of Chinese access to artificial islands The strategic facility at Cam Ranh Bay has become a focus of growing attention. It lies a few hundred kilometres from disputed island groups that are part of Beijing’s claims to most of the South China Sea. Vietnam has spent heavily upgrading the port, which was used by the imperial Russian navy in the early 20th century, Japanese ships during the second world war and US vessels in the fight to prop up the South Vietnam regime during the civil war of the 1960s and 1970s. The port was leased to the Soviet Union and Russia after communist North Vietnam’s victory in 1975. 

In October, the destroyer John S McCain and submarine tender Frank Cable became the first commissioned US naval vessels to moor at Cam Ranh Bay since the Vietnam war. Chinese and Japanese vessels also visited the port last year.

While the pivot to Asia has been regarded as a failure, one of its undeniable and potentially enduring achievements has been precisely the development of warmer ties between Washington and Hanoi Some analysts say Vietnam and the US have a strategic interest in even deeper security co-operation despite a history that still weighs on the relationship. The Trump administration’s foreign policy goals in Asia remain unclear, although Rex Tillerson, the president-elect’s nominee for secretary of state, set the stage this week for a possible diplomatic clash with Beijing when he said China should be denied access to islands it has built in the South China Sea.

Le Hong Hiep, a research fellow at Singapore’s Iseas Yusof Ishak Institute think-tank, said: “The US is likely to maintain its rebalancing to Asia, and Vietnam will remain one of its key security partners in the region. However, Vietnam is somewhat uncertain about this prospect, and wants to hedge its bets by continuing to expand ties with other major powers and stabilising its relations with China.” Nguyen Phu Trong, the powerful general secretary of Vietnam’s ruling Communist party, is due to go to China at the same time as Mr Kerry’s visit, according to Chinese media. Vietnam has also made efforts to deepen its co-operation with other countries including India and Japan, whose prime minister, Shinzo Abe, is due in Hanoi next week.


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## Viet

January 11. Brig. Gen. (Ret.) Mishel Ben Baruch, Director of Israeli military complex SIBAT pays a visit to the Army´s Headquarters. besides seeking military co-operations, he announces Israeli State President Reunen Rivlin will come in March. I think we both should cooperate closer, sharing experiences on traditional and modern warfare. both Vietnam and Israel have one thing in common: small landmass with few people, having formidable army, surrounded by hostile neighbours. though I don´t think we start copying the Jews bombing enemy targets like they do now in Syria 

http://www.janes.com/article/66888/vietnam-israel-pledge-to-expand-defence-ties


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> January 11. Brig. Gen. (Ret.) Mishel Ben Baruch, Director of Israeli military complex SIBAT pays a visit to the Army´s Headquarters. besides seeking military co-operations, he announces Israeli State President Reunen Rivlin will come in March. I think we both should cooperate closer, sharing experiences on traditional and modern warfare. both Vietnam and Israel have one thing in common: small landmass with few people, having formidable army, surrounded by hostile neighbours. though I don´t think we start copying the Jews bombing enemy targets like they do now in Syria
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/66888/vietnam-israel-pledge-to-expand-defence-ties



Vietnam do not bomb people, especially civilians unprovoked. Cosmetic commonality does not equate to moral likeness. The real Jews are against the terrorist state of Isreal. Isreal is responsible, through their cia equivalent mossad, for the assassination of some of the greatest minds of this century. Vietnam should distant itself from the abomination that is Isreal.


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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> January 11. Brig. Gen. (Ret.) Mishel Ben Baruch, Director of Israeli military complex SIBAT pays a visit to the Army´s Headquarters. besides seeking military co-operations, he announces Israeli State President Reunen Rivlin will come in March. I think we both should cooperate closer, sharing experiences on traditional and modern warfare. both Vietnam and Israel have one thing in common: small landmass with few people, having formidable army, surrounded by hostile neighbours. though I don´t think we start copying the Jews bombing enemy targets like they do now in Syria
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/66888/vietnam-israel-pledge-to-expand-defence-ties


The director of Israel military complex and President coming to Vietnam then they must be working on some deal. Vietnam has benefited tremendously by working with Israel. Look no further than Vietnam's agriculture sector; Israel has provided big help to Vietnam in that regard. Both china and india also benefit tremendously by working with Israel. Vietnam is taking a good step by establishing a good relationship with this jewish state.


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## Aqsuperman

Trainer and missile practice of the VPAF
















(This design reminds me of F-4 Phantom :v)

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> The director of Israel military complex and President coming to Vietnam then they must be working on some deal. Vietnam has benefited tremendously by working with Israel. Look no further than Vietnam's agriculture sector; Israel has provided big help to Vietnam in that regard. Both china and india also benefit tremendously by working with Israel. Vietnam is taking a good step by establishing a good relationship with this jewish state.


Yes that is true. The Jews are smart people. They are chosen people, aren't they? I think too, seeking a closer economic and military ties with Israel is the way to go. Israeli made EXTRA land attack missile system is a good start, we need more of this system. More powerful more range more accurate missiles to increase our offensive capability. This year looks promising.



TenLua said:


> Vietnam do not bomb people, especially civilians unprovoked. Cosmetic commonality does not equate to moral likeness. The real Jews are against the terrorist state of Isreal. Isreal is responsible, through their cia equivalent mossad, for the assassination of some of the greatest minds of this century. Vietnam should distant itself from the abomination that is Isreal.


Nobody is saint. But you should remember how the people of Israel fight for their survival since thousands of years. They deserve respect.


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## Viet

* Kerry Expects No Changes in US-Vietnam Relations Under Trump *
Last Updated: January 13, 2017 9:50 AM

VOA News





_Secretary of State John Kerry, left, shakes hands with Secretary of the Ho Chi Minh City Party Committee Dinh La Thang before their meeting, Jan. 13, 2017, in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. _


U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told an audience at Vietnam’s Ho Chi Minh University Friday that the upcoming change in administrations will not affect the relationship shared between the two countries. Kerry said the two countries share a set of values that cannot be altered by changing leadership.

“Our friendship doesn't depend on individuals or personalities, one president or the other, one party or the other. Our friendship is rooted in interests that we share, and in the things that we agree upon about the future," he said.

Kerry did note President-elect Donald Trump’s opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership could sink the deal when he takes office next week, but added that technology, not trade agreements, is what leads to job loss.

“Now, when machines do more, productivity generally goes up, and the demand for labor begins to shift to other places, other industries. That's one of the reasons why if you engage in protectionist policy, it isn't going to work," he said.






_Students and others listen as Secretary of State John Kerry speaks at Ho Chi Minh University of Technology and Education, Jan. 13, 2017 in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam._


*On South China Sea*

Kerry also addressed recent tensions in the South China Sea, pointing out that the U.S. does not take a position on different countries' claims to the territory, but asks that all those involved not engage in “provocative acts.”

“We believe in all the countries in the region, whether big or small, and that they should all refrain from provocative acts that add to tensions or might lead to a greater militarization of the area," he said.

Currently, six countries, including China and Vietnam, claim at least some part of the sea as their own. On Saturday, Kerry is scheduled to visit the Mekong Delta where he fought during the Vietnam War. After Vietnam, Kerry travels to Paris for a conference on Middle East peace and to London to meet with British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson. On the final leg of his last trip as secretary of state, Kerry will attend the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

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## Carlosa

*China won't 'sit with arms crossed' while India considers arms sales to Vietnam*
*http://www.businessinsider.com/india-selling-missiles-to-vietname-china-relations-2017-1?utm_source=feedburner&amp%3Butm_medium=referral&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+businessinsider+%28Business+Insider%29*




Narendra Modi REUTERS/Stringer

Signaling closer ties between the two nations, India and Vietnam are discussing the sale of the Akash missile system to the Southeast Asian nation. And China is officially not happy about it.

The fast-evolving relationship between Vietnam and India drew Beijing’s ire this week via the government mouthpiece _Global Times,_ which described the Indian arms sale as “stirring up trouble”, and said China would “hardly sit with its arms crossed”.

In the past, China has barely sniffed at the notion that the relationship between India and Vietnam is any real threat.

Vietnam and India share a friendly history and have been engaged in trade and other forms of cooperation for a decade. But the missile sale, which may be designed to guard against an aggressive China defence, signals just how quickly it is becoming one of the region’s stronger partnerships.





Vietnam's Minister of Defense Phung Quang Thanh (C) salutes during a joint funeral for the 18 military servicemen who died in a helicopter crash, in Hanoi July 11, 2014.Nguyen Huy Kham/Reuters

Vietnam’s rationale is simple, according to Murray Hiebert, deputy director of the Southeast Asia programme at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

“Vietnam knows it can never stand up to China, but it figures it can inflict more damage on China if it bolsters its weapons hardware a bit more. And India, with its long-time strong relations with Vietnam, is a very willing partner,” he told _This Week in Asia._

The Akash surface-to-air missile has a 25km range capable of targeting airborne vehicles – from drones to helicopters. It is one of a number of weapons India is planning to sell to Vietnam.

Both India and Vietnam share strategic concerns over China and wish to see a resolution to South China Sea sovereignty disputes. India has oil exploration operations in Vietnam-claimed areas of the sea. The two countries also have joint-exploration plans.

Professor Rajaram Panda, the Indian Council for Cultural Relations chair on Indian studies at Reitaku University in Japan, said: “It is obvious that both see China as the common perceived threat. China’s increasing belligerence and assertiveness on regional issues is also driving smaller states to reach an understanding on how to cope with China’s rise. China’s claim that its rise is peaceful is disputed because of its actions.”





Indian Navy sailors watch as military vehicle parades past during India's Republic Day parade in New Delhi January 26, 2015. REUTERS/Jim Bourg

Vietnam and India signed a strategic partnership in 2007 which included a Memorandum of Understanding on defence cooperation. In September, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Vietnam, and both nations elevated their ties to a comprehensive strategic partnership, placing India into Vietnam’s diplomatic top tier alongside Russia and China.

There is a strong defence component in this new partnership, which builds on previous efforts. The _Joint Vision Statement_ issued at the time covered not just education, but space exploration, including satellites over the South China Sea, and sea patrols. A US$500 million (HK$3.8 billion) line of defence credit was another component, up from US$100 million in 2014.

India has committed to help train Vietnamese fighter pilots on Russian-made Sukhoi Su-30 jets and submariners on Russian Kilo-class vessels, which both countries operate. In addition to the Akash missile system, India is also considering the sale of a new generation of the BrahMos short-range missile system, which is being co-developed by an India-Russia joint venture and requires the partnering nation’s approval, and Varunastra torpedoes for use on the Kilo-class subs.

During a visit from Vietnam’s then-Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung in 2014, Modi said: “our defence cooperation with Vietnam is among our most important ones”.





Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping delivers a speech during a joint media briefing with Romania's President Traian Basescu (unseen) at Cotroceni presidential palace in Bucharest October 19, 2009. REUTERS/Bogdan Cristel

Hiebert said the countries’ “close ties... date back to the old days of Ho Chi Minh and Nehru”, and when India was the only non-Soviet country to recognise Vietnam’s regime in Cambodia. Now, both history and “India’s willingness to become a comprehensive strategic partner” were key factors.

The supersonic Akash is an almost entirely Indian designed and built weapon – 96 per cent, according to a _Times of India_ report. It was developed by Bharat Dynamics Limited, a 47-year-old company under the control of India’s Ministry of Defence.

But India has not only been ramping up its foreign ties – it has also been increasing its weapons exports. The country has long been a top importer, but its new ambition is to export – targeting US$2 billion in revenue in coming years.

In July, energy and securities analyst Saurav Jha said: “Overall, India is likely to focus on a few key defence partners with which it has maximum strategic congruence for building up its position in the global defence market.”

Vietnam is certainly that, both strategically important and a keen arms customer. It was the world’s eighth largest weapons importer from 2011-2015, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. And then in May last year, US President Barrack Obama lifted a decades-old arms embargo on the Southeast Asian nation.

China has undoubtedly played a role in driving India and Vietnam closer together in recent years. But China is also Vietnam’s highest-level partner. In fact, Vietnam’s General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong this week met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing.

China’s angry reaction this time is possibly understandable. While an increase in ties, oil exploration or even satellites was irritating, none posed the immediate threat of a missile. And it seems the _Global Times_, often described as a mouthpiece for China’s more hawkish elements, has changed its view accordingly. Last February, the paper wrote: “Indo-Vietnamese relations are never a major concern for China.” But with a missile, they now are.

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## Silent Knight

So basically this is a trial of indigenous 30mm naval ammunition for AK-630M CIWS, not a test for land-based AK-630M.






The ammo is designated "ĐPST-30" which stands for "Đạn pháo siêu tốc - 30mm" (literally "CIWS ammunition - 30mm caliber")

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## Viet

_



_

The Chinese offered no non-aggression-treaty like Hitler-Stalin-pact, nor billions of dollar economic package like they offered to the Philippines. Besides typical empty phrases, nothing is worth to mention here. A big zero. A big disappointment. the 4-day high level visit to China is good for some propaganda articles nothing else. Not a waste of time but close to it. No wonder the former Vietnamese prime minister Nguyen never set a foot on China during his 10 year term. That is not a good sign. Or do I miss something? I predict the tension will continue to increase. Both sides will do what both sides want to do. Let's hope the visit of Shinzo Abe brings more fruitful outcomes.

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## Carlosa

*Japan to supply 6 new patrol boats to Vietnam*
By Mai Nguyen and My Pham
https://www.yahoo.com/news/japan-supply-patrol-boats-vietnam-104952296.html

HANOI (Reuters) - Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Monday promised Vietnam six new patrol boats during a visit to the Southeast Asian country locked in a dispute with China over the busy South China Sea waterway.

Abe's stop in Vietnam completes a tour through an arc of a region where Japan stakes a leadership claim in the face of China's growing dominance and uncertainty over what policy change Donald Trump will bring as U.S. president.

"We will strongly support Vietnam's enhancing its maritime law enforcement capability," Abe said, while emphasizing that the dispute over the South China Sea should be settled through talks and in accordance with international law.

China claims almost all the South China Sea, through which about $5 trillion worth of sea-borne trade passes every year. Vietnam and four other countries also have claims in the sea, believed to have rich deposits of oil and gas.

Tokyo has no territorial claims there, but worries about China's growing military reach into the sea lanes. Japan has a separate dispute with China over a cluster of tiny islets in the East China Sea.

In September, Japan had said it was ready to provide new patrol boats to Vietnam after earlier supplying six old vessels.

Maritime security and trade have been key themes during Abe's other stops - in Indonesia, the Philippines and Australia.

Given the readiness of the Philippines under President Rodrigo Duterte to move closer to the Chinese and further from its traditional U.S. ally, Vietnam is one of fewer regional states showing potential readiness to confront China.

Uncertainty over U.S. policy in Asia was amplified last week by comments from Secretary of State nominee Rex Tillerson that China must stop building islands in the South China Sea and that its access to those islands must not be allowed.

Despite their differences, Vietnam also maintains a strong diplomatic track with China. China and Vietnam said at the weekend they had agreed to manage their maritime differences and preserve peace and stability.

Both Japan and Vietnam have also been strong supporters of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) free-trade pact which looks to have stalled in the face of Trump's pledge to withdraw the United States.

In Hanoi, Abe stressed the importance of the TPP and other free trade agreements, but gave no further details.

The delegation signed a number of business agreements, including energy and textile projects and a project to help with the impact of climate change. Japan is Vietnam's biggest foreign investor after South Korea.

---------------------

Phuc said Abe has committed to give Vietnam more development assistance amounting to 123 billion yen ($1.05 billion) in the fiscal year of 2016 for maritime security, responding to climate change and water treatment.

It's not clear whether the new loans will cover the purchase of new patrol vessels.

The two leaders also pledged to deepen their two countries' strategic partnership.

Japan is one of Vietnam's top investors and trading partners and is the communist country's single largest bilateral donor.

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## Viet

it is a good start Mr Abe. I hope he not only opens the wallet but offers transfer in key technologies

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## Viet

http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/quo...iet-nam-len-doi-voi-mat-than-noi-dia-3325914/
a good article about VN progress on making target finders and night vision gears.

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## Silent Knight

The final Kilo submarine has arrived in Singapore. It's expected to head to Cam Ranh Naval Base tomorrow.

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## Viet

*WORLD*

JANUARY 13, 2017 6:20 PM
*
Exxon deal with Vietnam adds to Tillerson’s tangles with China*





BY STUART LEAVENWORTH
WASHINGTON

Rex Tillerson, the former Exxon Mobil CEO tapped to be the Trump administration’s secretary of state, created an international stir this week when he told a Senate confirmation hearing that the United States should prevent the Chinese military from accessing artificial islands Beijing has constructed in the South China Sea.

But it’s not the first time he’s riled China. Under his leadership, Exxon has teamed up with Vietnam, China’s enemy to the south, to develop natural gas projects in waters claimed by both Hanoi and Beijing. On Friday, Exxon signed one of those deals with Vietnam. Ironically, it was Secretary of State John Kerry who made the announcement.

“Our countries have worked hard to put the past into the past and to define a different future,” Kerry said at meeting in Hanoi with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc. “We are now cooperating on security issues . . . and just today a $5 million agreement was signed with Exxon to explore and develop gas and fuel possibilities.”

The agreement allows Vietnam and Exxon to go forward with “Blue Whale,” Vietnam’s largest natural gas and oil project and one that would be built in disputed waters. The project is expected to fuel four power plants in Vietnam when it is completed by 2023.

China has not sat by as Vietnam has exercised its energy rights off its coast. In 2014, China placed an exploratory rig near Vietnam, setting off skirmishes between fishing boats and the Chinese coast guard.

YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEND CHINA A CLEAR SIGNAL THAT, FIRST, THE ISLAND-BUILDING STOPS, AND SECOND, YOUR ACCESS TO THOSE ISLANDS IS ALSO NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED
Rex Tillerson, President-elect Trump’s nominee to be Secretary of State

If Tillerson were to be confirmed as the top U.S. diplomat, and if China responded strongly to the Blue Whale project, he would be in the akward position of either involving himself in an Exxon project he helped developed, or staying on the sides of a budding crisis in the South China Sea.

During his confirmation hearing, Tillerson was anything but guarded in his comments about China, which has been dredging sand onto barely submerged reefs in the region and developing airfields and deep harbors on some. Beijing asserts that most of the South China Sea is its historic territory, a claim rejected by an international tribunal last year.

Under questioning from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Tillerson said that China’s actions in the South China Sea were “extremely worrisome” and comparable to Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

“You’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops, and second, your access to those islands is also not going to be allowed,” said Tillerson.

Chinese state media reacted strongly to his statements, including criticism that China hasn’t been a reliable partner in pressuring North Korea.

“Such remarks are not worth taking seriously because they are a mish-mash of naivety, shortsightedness, worn-out prejudices, and unrealistic political fantasies. Should he act on them in the real world, it would be disastrous,” said an opinion column in the China Daily on Friday.

U.S.-China relations were testy throughout much of the Obama administration, but they are likely to become even tenser under Trump. On the campaign trail, Trump has accused China of “raping” the United States and has threatened to slap Chinese goods with a 35 percent tariff if Beijing doesn’t change its ways.

So far, Chinese officials have been less bellicose than state media in responding to Trump. At a regular briefing in Beijing on Thursday, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang tried to play down tensions.

“If you take a look at (Chinese) President Xi Jinping’s call with Donald Trump after he won the election, you can see that the two countries do respect each other, and we agree with him that we should develop our relations based on mutual respect,” Lu said, according to a dispatch from the Associated Press.

Stuart Leavenworth: @sleavenworth


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article126490524.html#storylink=cpy


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## Viet

News of the day

the military-run Telecom company VietTel seems having some money left in the pocket. Acquiring additional attacking submarines may have been postponed. it wants to invest $2b in Myanmar after the government there grants a telecom 3G license for 15-year (and can be renewed for an additional 10 years). one of VietTel´s partner in Myanmar is military-run Myanmar National Telecom. What a coincidence. Until now VietTel has invested $2.4 billion in overseas markets, making a gross revenue of $11.3 billion in 2016.






http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Viettel-to-make-2bn-mobile-investment-in-Myanmar


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## Silent Knight

terranMarine said:


> What happened to Vietnam being the expert in dealing with mighty powers? I thought Vietnam has plenty of experiences in that regard. Not only China but even the US and Japan treat Vietnam as a disposable chess piece.
> Guess the begging wasn't that convincing so China didn't bother to throw even a bone at VN. So when is US and JP gonna shower VN with high tech weaponry (for free) containing China?


Huh?


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## GS Zhou

terranMarine said:


> What happened to Vietnam being the expert in dealing with mighty powers? I thought Vietnam has plenty of experiences in that regard. Not only China but even the US and Japan treat Vietnam as a disposable chess piece.
> Guess the begging wasn't that convincing so China didn't bother to throw even a bone at VN. So when is US and JP gonna shower VN with high tech weaponry (for free) containing China?


hi terranMarine, no matter how you perceive Vietnam, there is simply NO need to leave a message with such bad tone. It is fine to do an open debate, but debate doesn't mean humiliation, it could be polite and graceful as well.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> What happened to Vietnam being the expert in dealing with mighty powers? I thought Vietnam has plenty of experiences in that regard. Not only China but even the US and Japan treat Vietnam as a disposable chess piece.
> Guess the begging wasn't that convincing so China didn't bother to throw even a bone at VN. So when is US and JP gonna shower VN with high tech weaponry (for free) containing China?


ok we got it. we gave you our hand for cooperation but returned home empty handed. except cheap propaganda, there is nothing. Don´t complaint when VN turns to the West. US and Japan seem more receptive, more open for cooperation. AND you should not forget we dealt with western powers when China still had self imposed closed door policy. when most of Chinese were not aware of any country existing outside China


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> ok we got it. we gave you our hand for cooperation but returned home empty handed. except cheap propaganda, there is nothing. Don´t complaint when VN turns to the West. US and Japan seem more receptive, more open for cooperation. AND you should not forget we dealt with western powers when China still had self imposed closed door policy. when most of Chinese were not aware of any country existing outside China


return home with empty hands? Here are the new cooperation agreements achieved by the two sides during the VCP head visit to China.
访问期间，双方签署了
《中国共产党和越南共产党高级干部培训合作协议（2017－2020年）》、
《中国国防部和越南国防部关于2025年前国防合作共同愿景声明》、
《中国红十字会与越南红十字会合作备忘录》、
《中国海关总署和越南国防部关于中越陆地边境口岸合作的框架协定》、
《中国政府与越南政府关于实施老街－河内－海防标准轨铁路线路规划项目换文》、
《中国商务部与越南计划投资部关于合作开展越南公共医疗卫生领域专项援助谅解备忘录》、
《中国农业部和越南农业与农村发展部关于开展北部湾渔业资源增殖放流与养护合作的谅解备忘录》、
《中国国家质量监督检验检疫总局与越南工贸部关于中国与越南双边贸易中食品安全的合作谅解备忘录》、
《中国中央电视台与越南电视台关于合拍电视专题片的谅解备忘录》、
《中国国务院发展研究中心与越共中央经济部合作备忘录》、
《中国国家旅游局和越南文化体育旅游部2017－2019年旅游合作计划》、
《中国人民对外友好协会与越南友好组织联合会2017年至2021年合作备忘录》、
《中国国际广播电台与越南之声电台合作协议》、
《中国国家开发银行与越南投资发展银行2017－2019年项目融资与双边授信合作谅解备忘录》、
《中国人民出版社与越南真理国家政治出版社2017－2021年合作协议》等合作文件。
the new cooperation agreements cover the areas like financing, military, medicine, border control, railway, fishing, agricultural products, media. If this is not cooperation, what is cooperation?

What else you expect? A 10 billion RMB donation for free? Or retreat from our current standpoints on the South China Sea?

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> return home with empty hands? Here are the new cooperation agreements achieved by the two sides during the VCP head visit to China.
> 访问期间，双方签署了
> 《中国共产党和越南共产党高级干部培训合作协议（2017－2020年）》、
> 《中国国防部和越南国防部关于2025年前国防合作共同愿景声明》、
> 《中国红十字会与越南红十字会合作备忘录》、
> 《中国海关总署和越南国防部关于中越陆地边境口岸合作的框架协定》、
> 《中国政府与越南政府关于实施老街－河内－海防标准轨铁路线路规划项目换文》、
> 《中国商务部与越南计划投资部关于合作开展越南公共医疗卫生领域专项援助谅解备忘录》、
> 《中国农业部和越南农业与农村发展部关于开展北部湾渔业资源增殖放流与养护合作的谅解备忘录》、
> 《中国国家质量监督检验检疫总局与越南工贸部关于中国与越南双边贸易中食品安全的合作谅解备忘录》、
> 《中国中央电视台与越南电视台关于合拍电视专题片的谅解备忘录》、
> 《中国国务院发展研究中心与越共中央经济部合作备忘录》、
> 《中国国家旅游局和越南文化体育旅游部2017－2019年旅游合作计划》、
> 《中国人民对外友好协会与越南友好组织联合会2017年至2021年合作备忘录》、
> 《中国国际广播电台与越南之声电台合作协议》、
> 《中国国家开发银行与越南投资发展银行2017－2019年项目融资与双边授信合作谅解备忘录》、
> 《中国人民出版社与越南真理国家政治出版社2017－2021年合作协议》等合作文件。
> the new cooperation agreements cover the areas like financing, military, medicine, border control, railway, fishing, agricultural products, media. If this is not cooperation, what is cooperation?
> 
> What else you expect? A 10 billion RMB donation for free? Or retreat from our current standpoints on the South China Sea?


I read through the agreements signed during the visit. Most are repetition of former agreements. Some new elements are added but too little too vague to have any effect. No I don't think VN leadership expects handouts nor your retreat from your standpoint. You know too little about VN mentality.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I read through the agreements signed during the visit. Most are repetition of former agreements. Some new elements are added but too little too vague to have any effect. No I don't think VN leadership expects handouts nor your retreat from your standpoint. You know too little about VN mentality.


the content I show you are all NEW agreements signed during the January visit of the VCP head. If you know more details about them, share with us. 

Although I don't speak or read your language, I believe I understand well about your perceptions towards China, a combination of complicated feelings. Otherwise I won't raise this question to you.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> the content I show you are all NEW agreements signed during the January visit of the VCP head. If you know more details about them, share with us.
> 
> Although I don't speak or read your language, I believe I understand well about your perceptions towards China, a combination of complicated feelings. Otherwise I won't raise this question to you.


Same content with NEW packaging. All the agreements won't bring us a little bit forward. Ok if anything then it is about face. Having a good face is everything. You as Chinese certainly know it. We signed NEW agreements. China had the opportunity to change the course of the relationship but you refused to take it. As expected.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Same content with NEW packaging. All the agreements won't bring us a little bit forward.


a void comment again. 

If you know any details about these new agreements, and you think the details could prove your view, share the details with us please. I at least show you the names of these new agreements, better than your void repetitions.



Viet said:


> China had the opportunity to change the course of the relationship but you refused to take it. As expected.


tell me what you expect us to do please. you said you don't expect a free donation from us, nor a retreat from our current standpoint, then what else do you expect? Transfer the high speed train technology to you? the 052D technology? the J20 technology? the super computer technology? or the quantumn communication technology?

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> a void comment again.
> 
> If you know any details about these new agreements, and you think the details could prove your view, share the details with us please. I at least show you the names of these new agreements, better than your void repetitions.
> 
> 
> tell me what you expect us to do please. you said you don't expect a free donation from us, nor a retreat from our current standpoint, then what else do you expect? Transfer the high speed train technology to you? the 052D technology? the J20 technology? the super computer technology? or the quantumn communication technology?


ha ha ha you will never do transferring key technologies so why should we bother asking you for? even for lower tech you won´t. haven´t you read the agreements? can you tell me how such agreement like cooperation Vietnam Red Cross and China Red Cross brings Vietnam forward? amazing, that there isn´t such a primitive agreement between two nations existing until now. that tells everything about the bilateral relationship.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> ha ha ha you will never do transferring key technologies so why should we bother asking you for? even for lower tech you won´t. haven´t you read the agreements? can you tell me how such agreement like cooperation Vietnam Red Cross and China Red Cross brings Vietnam forward? amazing, that there isn´t such a primitive agreement between two nations existing until now. that tells everything about the bilateral relationship.


why a cooperation on medical event can not bring Vietnam forward? The Chinese content below clearly shows China will send medical assistance to Vietnam. If you think it is useless, you can ask your border control to reject the arrival of the Chinese medial experts to Vietnam.
《中国商务部与越南计划投资部关于合作开展越南公共医疗卫生领域专项援助谅解备忘录》、

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## Aqsuperman

Year - end revision. New self-produced stuffs from foreign designs.


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## Silent Knight

GS Zhou said:


> hi terranMarine, no matter how you perceive Vietnam, there is simply NO need to leave a message with such bad tone. It is fine to do an open debate, but debate doesn't mean humiliation, it could be polite and graceful as well.


This is why I like this guy.

Role model for a civil debate

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> why a cooperation on medical event can not bring Vietnam forward? The Chinese content below clearly shows China will send medical assistance to Vietnam. If you think it is useless, you can ask your border control to reject the arrival of the Chinese medial experts to Vietnam.
> 《中国商务部与越南计划投资部关于合作开展越南公共医疗卫生领域专项援助谅解备忘录》、


I am pretty sure if a Chinese medical team arrives (if ever) will be greeted by Vietnamese side. moreover they will be invited to eating pho. but seriously talking, don´t you think it is too little?

the Japanese build in Vietnam from bridges to roads, schools, universities to kindergartens. they provide money, assistance and everything. Mr Abe brings money and 6 patrol ships on his stop in Vietnam. all in all they assist Vietnam on the road to become a modern country. and China? the biggest country in the world, most populous country, second largest economy, you have more money than you can ever spend. we are your next immediate neighbour. but you give us nothing. virtually. not even friendship. oh yes, some peanuts. thank you. but as said, we don´t expect anything from China. as usual.


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## Viet

*As the Earth Shook, They Stood Firm*



Vo Thi Mo led three commando squads against a battalion of the 25th Division in Vietnam in 1967.

The New York Times
THANH PHONG *JANUARY 17, 2017

*
In January 1967, when the First and 25th Infantry Divisions of the United States Army began Operation Cedar Falls, their all-out offensive against the Communist strongholds of the “Iron Triangle” northwest of Saigon, Vo Thi Mo, 20, was ready.

Born in Cu Chi, in the middle of the Cedar Falls battle zone, Ms. Mo had been in the fight against American troops and the Army of the Republic of Vietnam — the South Vietnamese force, known as ARVN — since the age of 13, when she helped to build the extensive tunnel system that southern Communist forces, known as the National Liberation Front (and to its enemies as the Vietcong), used as barracks, command center and communications network.

By 1967 she was a “deputy of hamlet combat,” and 50 years ago this month she led three commando squads against a battalion of the 25th Division.

“I had never been at any military school,” said Ms. Mo, now 70 and still living in a small house in Cu Chi. “As a girl, I was so scared when I cocked a gun for the first time. But, you know, I learned a lot on the battlefields.”




Starting at age 13, Vo Thi Mo worked as a secret messenger for Communist forces in South Vietnam.

That poorly equipped, poorly supplied Communist forces were able to resist a sustained mechanized onslaught was a testament to the resilience, adaptability and tenacity of fighters like Ms. Mo. Their ability to survive, at a terrible cost, and learn from the experience helped shape their strategy for the rest of the war.

To understand the experiences of Vietnamese on both sides of the war, I’ve studied hundreds of Vietcong reports and communications, soldiers’ diaries and letters, captured by the Central Intelligence Agency and the Army of the Republic of South Vietnam and archived at Texas Tech University. I’ve also conducted dozens of interviews in Vietnam in which former soldiers like Ms. Mo reflected on the war, and Cedar Falls in particular. Besides Ms. Mo, the other interviewees spoke on condition that their initials, but not their names, would be published.

Even a half-century later, Col. Q.T.N., an 81-year-old former regiment commander and one of the few survivors of a division that was considered among the most hardened units of the Vietcong, shuddered as he recalled Cedar Falls in an interview at his home in Saigon, now known as Ho Chi Minh City.

After bomb and rocket attacks from B-52s, jet fighters, helicopters and heavy artillery secured the area, American tanks and troops came in “to search for and destroy us,” Colonel Q.T.N. said. “The lands of Cu Chi, Ben Cat and Ben Suc” — villages at the perimeter of the Iron Triangle — “were razed as if they were some evils peeled off the skins of our body. Therefore, we called the operation Peeling the Shell of the Earth.”





Operation Cedar Falls, viewed from the air, on a U.S. Army helicopter gunship, left, and below ground, where soldiers uncover hidden bags of rice.
DICK SWANSON / THE LIFE IMAGES COLLECTION, VIA GETTY IMAGES


He added: “Although they could not eliminate our leadership, they destroyed our bases, especially war supplies. To be honest, they created many difficulties for us and established a secure perimeter for themselves in the northwest of Saigon.”

Like the colonel, Mr. Q.H. has traumatic memories of the offensive. Born in Cu Chi in 1948 and educated at the University of Saigon, he went to the jungle to join the local Communists’ department of propaganda and training.

“The areas around Ben Cat and Ben Suc shook violently like there was an earthquake,” Mr. Q.H. said. “Because all the food supplies were captured or destroyed, we had nothing to eat and drink. I don’t know how and why I was able to survive the rain of bombs and the storm of fire pouring on us.”

Among the 350,000 documents that American and South Vietnamese forces captured during the operation are many showing that starvation was at the heart of the Communists’ concerns. Because the offensive was so fierce, their comrades near the village of Phuoc Hiep “did not dare to visit to collect rice,” Vietcong officials wrote in reports in mid-January 1967. Living under American surveillance after being relocated to a “New Life Hamlet,” the people in Thanh Hoa did not sell rice anymore, the officials wrote, “so we found it very difficult to survive.”

Many Vietcong escaped the ruined tunnels and hid along rivers and canals. “The Vietcong usually sank themselves in the mud along the canal banks,” a deserter told his interrogators, according to a report I found in the archives. “They had learned, from experience, that South Vietnamese soldiers would not check the canal banks very closely.”

But escape often proved impossible, and casualties rose. The Saigon River became a floating graveyard. In a memoir, Le Dinh An, a veteran of a South Vietnamese unit, wrote of “a river full of death.”

“Cadavers swelled, the men faced down in the water, while the women faced the sky,” he wrote. “When we moved into the new areas, we continued to see new dead bodies floating on the rivers, the banks and paddies. The corpses showed up everywhere.”

By the end of Operation Cedar Falls, American officials said 750 Vietcong were killed, along with 72 Americans and 11 South Vietnamese.

In their official writing, the Communists claimed that during the 19 days of the operation, their forces had resolutely fought the enemy advance of 30,000 United States and South Vietnamese troops. In reality, American and South Vietnamese troops faced only skirmishes against small units, not the main forces of the Vietcong.


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> China? the biggest country in the world, most populous country, second largest economy, you have more money than you can ever spend. we are your next immediate neighbour. but you give us nothing. virtually. not even friendship. oh yes, some peanuts. thank you. but as said, we don´t expect anything from China. as usual.



Didn't you say China is not the Big Boss of Asia, why are you describing China as such a powerful country now? 
This is the reason why people who read this forum treat you Viets as losers. Looked down by Indons, Chinese and others who think you Viets are comedians. If you stop this kind of rubbish behavior (and act like a beggar) we can have good discussions without making fun of Viets. Just a friendly tip if you wish people to treat you guys serious.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Didn't you say China is not the Big Boss of Asia, why are you describing China as such a powerful country now?
> This is the reason why people who read this forum treat you Viets as losers. Looked down by Indons, Chinese and others who think you Viets are comedians. If you stop this kind of rubbish behavior (and act like a beggar) we can have good discussions without making fun of Viets. Just a friendly tip if you wish people to treat you guys serious.


I wanted to be nice but you misunderstood the intention. You should read between the lines. Anyway do you believe we pay a penny worth of attention to such someone like Chinese or whoever or as you mention Indonesians who look down on Vietnam? You know too little about us. Keep your money. The Viet people have respect to the Japanese. Honestly speaking we admire them. They have politeness and dignity, while you have none. We like the Japanese and their products, while Chinese are at the same level as thiefs and hooligans, Chinese products between cheap, low quality and rubbish.

The Khmer hatred on Vietnam is bottomless but we are always ready to give them a helping hand, sacrificing our lives to stop them falling into abyss. Look at this. A victory monument erected in 1979 midst in the capital of Cambodia, remembering of Vietnam victory over the Red Khner Army, ending the genocide. That costs millions of Cambodian lives. The soldiers represent Viet and Cambodia armies, while the women holding the baby represents the Cambodia people.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Honestly speaking we admire them. They have politeness and dignity, while you have none


Clearly you know nothing about Japanese,but anyway...

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I am pretty sure if a Chinese medical team arrives (if ever) will be greeted by Vietnamese side. moreover they will be invited to eating pho. but seriously talking, don´t you think it is too little?
> 
> the Japanese build in Vietnam from bridges to roads, schools, universities to kindergartens. they provide money, assistance and everything. Mr Abe brings money and 6 patrol ships on his stop in Vietnam. all in all they assist Vietnam on the road to become a modern country. and China? the biggest country in the world, most populous country, second largest economy, you have more money than you can ever spend. we are your next immediate neighbour. but you give us nothing. virtually. not even friendship. oh yes, some peanuts. thank you. but as said, we don´t expect anything from China. as usual.


thanks god you now at least acknowledge the medical assistance from China is a help to Vietnam.

One of the new agreements signed during the VCP head visit is called as 《中国国家开发银行与越南投资发展银行2017－2019年项目融资与双边授信合作谅解备忘录》, or the Financing and Credit Agreement between China Development Bank and Vietnam Investment Development Bank. If you happen to know any details about this, share with us.



Viet said:


> you have more money than you can ever spend


we have more money than we can ever spend? I love your joke.
Yes, we have some money in the pockets, but we also have a longer shopping list that our money could not fully support yet. There are about 60 million people in China that still living in poverty, we need to help them, that needs a huge amount of money. We expect to double our 120k km expressway network, triple our 20k km high speed rail network, 10x of the metro lines, adopt more new energy power plants, improve the education and health care systems, these all need money. We also have plans on high tech R&D, super computers, quantum technologies, controlled nuclear fusion power plants, space programs to the Moon and the Mars, 6th-generation fighters, these again need tons of money. We also want to modernize the military, e.g. to have 8 carriers, 40 Type 055 destroyers, 1,000 J20s, again tons of money.

Warren Buffett is the guy with more money than he could ever spend. But I'll never expect to get even just one cent from him, unless I could show some real value to him, or to his company.



Viet said:


> The Viet people have respect to the Japanese. Honestly speaking we admire them.



Oh yes, money from Japan, and also the coast guard ships. Congratulations!
While you make so much praises on Japan and Mr. Abe, but in Abe's most recent tour in South East Asia, he gives a one trillion JPY support to Philippines, equivalent to 10x of what he promises to Vietnam. What a sign of friendship!

https://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2017/01/453864.html
http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/south...shinzo-abe-becomes-first-foreign-leader-visit











Patrol boats from Japan? Congratulations! But Japan even willing to give Philippine some missiles. Do you know how Duterte responded to Abe? "No! We don't need your missiles"

Japan must have delivered a similar missile package to Vietnam? Am I right?

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/duterte-rejected-japan-missile-offer-000000071.html

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## hoangsa74

ODA is just a loan shark in disguise. The Japanese compensate for the "low" interest rate by inflating the principal amount of a product or a service by at least 10 times. Anything that involves Japanese funded ODA is over inflated in price. Only those corrupted viet officials endorse it because they would receive some kickbacks while the average joe of Vietnam will have to pay it indirectly one way or the other.

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## shadows888

hoangsa74 said:


> ODA is just a loan shark in disguise. The Japanese compensate for the "low" interest rate by inflating the principal amount of a product or a service by at least 10 times. Anything that involves Japanese funded ODA is over inflated in price. Only those corrupted viet officials endorse it because they would receive some kickbacks while the average joe of Vietnam will have to pay it indirectly one way or the other.



average joe getting screwed? sounds like every country ever unless you live in paradise USA with true Freedom^tm



Viet said:


> I wanted to be nice but you misunderstood the intention. You should read between the lines. Anyway do you believe we pay a penny worth of attention to such someone like Chinese or whoever or as you mention Indonesians who look down on Vietnam? You know too little about us. Keep your money. The Viet people have respect to the Japanese. Honestly speaking we admire them. They have politeness and dignity, while you have none. We like the Japanese and their products, while Chinese are at the same level as thiefs and hooligans, Chinese products between cheap, low quality and rubbish.
> 
> The Khmer hatred on Vietnam is bottomless but we are always ready to give them a helping hand, sacrificing our lives to stop them falling into abyss. Look at this. A victory monument erected in 1979 midst in the capital of Cambodia, remembering of Vietnam victory over the Red Khner Army, ending the genocide. That costs millions of Cambodian lives. The soldiers represent Viet and Cambodia armies, while the women holding the baby represents the Cambodia people.



facepalm. the guys at the_donald are laughing so hard right now.


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Keep your money. The Viet people have respect to the Japanese. Honestly speaking we admire them. They have politeness and dignity, while you have none. We like the Japanese and their products, while Chinese are at the same level as thiefs and hooligans, Chinese products between cheap, low quality and rubbish.



Good, i always thought China should not make great investment to a hostile country like Vietnam. (Overseas) Viets have proven to be ingrates. You were talking,acting like a beggar from the first day you started posting here not to mention shown your ungrateful attitude towards Chinese assistance. Many of us here are find it hilarious that a Viet here is praising a warmonger like the US who has been responsible for murdering people on a global scale up to this day. No wonder many are questioning your childish behavior (begging japs,yankees for free state of the art warships). You wish Vietnam to act like a US lapdog? Good for you, keep sucking US balls here on this forum. Maybe Trump will throw you some bones if he sees how good you are in sucking up. I suppose the 2 decades of biochemical warfare and napalm usage on your people must have created "intelligent" offsprings like you into believing the US is a sugar daddy. 

As for Chinese rubbish products, make sure you read the label whether it is made in China before you buy any of it. Otherwise you are guilty yourself in supporting the world factory

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Good, i always thought China should not make great investment to a hostile country like Vietnam. (Overseas) Viets have proven to be ingrates. You were talking,acting like a beggar from the first day you started posting here not to mention shown your ungrateful attitude towards Chinese assistance. Many of us here are find it hilarious that a Viet here is praising a warmonger like the US who has been responsible for murdering people on a global scale up to this day. No wonder many are questioning your childish behavior (begging japs,yankees for free state of the art warships). You wish Vietnam to act like a US lapdog? Good for you, keep sucking US balls here on this forum. Maybe Trump will throw you some bones if he sees how good you are in sucking up. I suppose the 2 decades of biochemical warfare and napalm usage on your people must have created "intelligent" offsprings like you into believing the US is a sugar daddy.
> 
> As for Chinese rubbish products, make sure you read the label whether it is made in China before you buy any of it. Otherwise you are guilty yourself in supporting the world factory


Donald Trump is right when he demands Japan, S Korea and all other must pay more for the US military umbrella. Security is not free. That must be paid in one way or the other. Vietnam keeps the most important waterways open and secure for half of the trading nations of the world, from Japan to Germany, bearing the burden of a high military budget, suffering under Chinese aggression but we receive nearly nothing in return from our friends.

Have I ever justified US war crimes in Vietnam and elsewhere? Never. The Russians took large parts of China, committing horrible crimes in Manchuria but today you never miss a chance to polish their shoes as if you want to earn a quick dollar.

We owe you nothing. You should not forget we provided food, security and home to hundreds of thousands of chinese refugees throughout history when they fled China for different reasons. Although we are aware we would draw anger from Chinese authorities.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Donald Trump is right when he demands Japan, S Korea and all other must pay more for the US military umbrella. Security is not free.





Viet said:


> but we receive nearly nothing in return from our friends.


I can not understand your logic fully. 

On the one side, you think it is reasonable that Japan or Korea pays a big amount of money to US, because US offers the military protection to both countries; on the other side, you request US or Japan to give Vietnam some money. So per your logic, *you mean Vietnam is offering military protection to US and Japan.* Do I understand you correctly?

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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Donald Trump is right when he demands Japan, S Korea and all other must pay more for the US military umbrella. Security is not free. That must be paid in one way or the other. Vietnam keeps the most important waterways open and secure for half of the trading nations of the world, from Japan to Germany, bearing the burden of a high military budget, suffering under Chinese aggression but we receive nearly nothing in return from our friends.
> 
> Have I ever justified US war crimes in Vietnam and elsewhere? Never. The Russians took large parts of China, committing horrible crimes in Manchuria but today you never miss a chance to polish their shoes as if you want to earn a quick dollar.
> 
> We owe you nothing. You should not forget we provided food, security and home to hundreds of thousands of chinese refugees throughout history when they fled China for different reasons. Although we are aware we would draw anger from Chinese authorities.



Teaching "history" again? Your knowledge of the past is questionable as i recall how many times you have been posting garbage "historical" lessons here. Going off topic won't earn you any recognition here. Again make sure all the stuff you have at home are not Chinese made  or even from your Vietnam as you only look up to Made in Japan. It's best you stop having any expectations of large Chinese investments because our countries shall never be that close. Keep your jealousy to yourself and dream of Japanese ODA saving Vietnam from poverty. China has better options when it comes down to better economic cooperation than the insignificant fly.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I can not understand your logic fully.
> 
> On the one side, you think it is reasonable that Japan or Korea pays a big amount of money to US, because US offers the military protection to both countries; on the other side, you request US or Japan to give Vietnam some money. So per your logic, *you mean Vietnam is offering military protection to US and Japan.* Do I understand you correctly?


Take Japan. With a bit knowledge of geography people could see the most vulnerable nation in the western Pacific is Japan. One of your arch-enemies. How long would Japan survive until it's economy collapses if China closes the waterways by using fake pretexts and excuses? As a country as Japan fully relying on imports of energy via waterways, I guess not long. Maybe a year until the reserves run out.

Considering we pay the patrol boats by a loan, that is very cheap for Japan. I don't say peanuts.



terranMarine said:


> Teaching "history" again? Your knowledge of the past is questionable as i recall how many times you have been posting garbage "historical" lessons here. Going off topic won't earn you any recognition here. Again make sure all the stuff you have at home are not Chinese made  or even from your Vietnam as you only look up to Made in Japan. It's best you stop having any expectations of large Chinese investments because our countries shall never be that close. Keep your jealousy to yourself and dream of Japanese ODA saving Vietnam from poverty. China has better options when it comes down to better economic cooperation than the insignificant fly.


Chinese investment to Vietnam was almost non existent until recently. Don't laugh too loud.


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## striver44

*China the elephant in the room as Vietnam and India draw closer in defence cooperation*

Neeta Lal says in seeking to strengthen their military capabilities, India and Vietnam face a diplomatic challenge with a wary China looking on


PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 18 January, 2017, 1:17pm
UPDATED : Wednesday, 18 January, 2017, 7:06pm

COMMENTS: 






When Nguyen Phu Trong, the general secretary of Vietnam’s Communist Party, and Chinese President Xi Jinping ( 習近平 ) met in Beijing last week to weigh up bilateral ties, India couldn’t have been far from their minds.

*India risks angering China with new satellite tracking station for Vietnam*
New Delhi and Hanoi have been steadily cranking up their military relationship in the Asia-Pacific region, much to Beijing’s chagrin. By leveraging its friendship with India, Vietnam hopes to offset the rising power of its northern neighbour, with whom it fought a brief war in 1979.

For India, Vietnam is increasingly at the heart of its “Act East” policy, a blueprint to expand its footprint across East and Southeast Asia. By building relations with states like Vietnam, Delhi hopes to provide a counterweight against Chinese adventurism in the region. It anticipates that a robust defence collaboration with Vietnam, coupled with the US lifting the Vietnamese arms embargo, can boost Hanoi’s defence capabilities against China.

*Why is India risking Chinese anger by trying to sell missiles to Vietnam?*
With Hanoi and Delhi also sharing concerns about China’s access to the Indian Ocean and the fraught South China Sea, the latter has helped beef up Vietnam’s naval and air forces. While on a visit to Vietnam last September, Prime Minister Narendra Modi not only elevated the Delhi-Hanoi “strategic partnership” to a “comprehensive strategic” one, he also provided Vietnam with a line of credit of US$500 million for defence deals.

In addition, Delhi has chivvied BrahMos Aerospace, an Indo-Russian venture which produces the world’s fastest supersonic cruise missiles, to accelerate sales to a list of five countries topped by Vietnam. Vietnamese fighter pilots are also being trained on Indian fighter jets.

These developments are clearly making Beijing uneasy, with India’s bid to sell the surface-to-air Akash missiles to Vietnam leading the _Global Times_ to comment that if the Indian government “treats its enhancement of military relations with Vietnam as a strategic arrangement or even revenge against Beijing, it will only create disturbances in the region”.

Beijing’s pique probably has Trong under pressure. But, for now at least, neither he nor Modi seem overly worried.

*The question facing Vietnam’s PM on his first China visit: how close to get to Beijing*
Be that as it may, neither Vietnam nor India are in a position to antagonise China. Beijing is Hanoi’s top trade partner and the power it can bring to bear on it is no match for Vietnam’s outreach to India, Japan or even the US. Delhi too, needs to inject the right dose of diplomacy, military relations and, now, arms sales into its Vietnamese mix while managing what is perhaps its most challenging strategic relationship – the one with China.

*Neeta Lal is a Delhi-based editor and journalist*


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## Silent Knight

Due to the lack of picture of military-related materials, here's a picture of an indigenous remotely controlled turret.

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## Viet

In ancient times we set up watch towers along the northern border, alerting the army if seeing the Chinese approaching. today we have radar stations to watch out if anyone runs amok. P18M surveillance radar station, capable detecting flying objects at a distance of 300 km, max altitude of 35,000 meters.


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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Due to the lack of picture of military-related materials, here's a picture of an indigenous remotely controlled turret.



Nice, what caliber is that?



Viet said:


> In ancient times we set up watch towers along the northern border, alerting the army if seeing the Chinese approaching. today we have radar stations to watch out if anyone runs amok. P18M surveillance radar station, capable detecting flying objects at a distance of 300 km, max altitude of 35,000 meters.



Hey amigo, I'm in your home town right now, Nha Trang, very nice atmosphere here. Lots of Russian and Chinese tourists everywhere.

One interesting thing, my flight was delayed because of military exercises in the area.

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Nice, what caliber is that?


12.7x108mm Russian. There was another version for 14.5mm MG which was testes a few years ago.

How's thing going, my friend?

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> 12.7x108mm Russian. There was another version for 14.5mm MG which was testes a few years ago.
> 
> How's thing going, my friend?



Ok here, Just came back today from China, very busy these days. Time to get ready for Tet now. How about you?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Hey amigo, I'm in your home town right now, Nha Trang, very nice atmosphere here. Lots of Russian and Chinese tourists everywhere.
> 
> One interesting thing, my flight was delayed because of military exercises in the area.


I am ok. Man I wish I could be in Nhatrang, sitting on the beach with a cold beer. The weather right now in Germany is quite cold. Very cold. Snow, heavy storm and everything in between. Some regions at night see -17 C. I believe the Russians don't mind but it is not for me  Very busy now with everything but I take time to respond to clowns here on the forum.

Traveling today on a high speed rail to a business meeting. More comfortable than spending hours on a super highway. A lot of Vietnamese are seen opening restaurants and nails. Good business. Nearly every week a new business. Or almost. A lot of Chinese are seen too. From tourists to everything. Some places look like HongKong. How your business in China? Feel free to report

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I am ok. Man I wish I could be in Nhatrang, sitting on the beach with a cold beer. The weather right now in Germany is quite cold. Very cold. Snow, heavy storm and everything in between. Some regions at night see -17 C. I believe the Russians don't mind but it is not for me  Very busy now with everything but I take time to respond to clowns here on the forum.
> 
> Traveling today on a high speed rail to a business meeting. More comfortable than spending hours on a super highway. A lot of Vietnamese are seen opening restaurants and nails. Good business. Nearly every week a new business. Or almost. A lot of Chinese are seen too. From tourists to everything. Some places look like HongKong. How your business in China? Feel free to report



I hear you, cold wave in Europe. Beautiful weather in Nha Trang. China was also a bit cold (not so much today, but it was until a couple of days ago), so it felt really nice to be in this weather. Business is better this year since the customers in USA and Europe are doing well. Prices in China are going up fast, a bit of inflation, but all is ok.

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## Silent Knight

Carlosa said:


> Ok here, Just came back today from China, very busy these days. Time to get ready for Tet now. How about you?


Working my *** off before Tet, lots of project for the Army and AF now 

Also, some locally manufactured infantry weapons for the sake of pictures:

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## Sliver

is there any interest in Vietnam on the new indian built artillery guns and choppers? I am just interested to see if viets keep a tab on such developments.


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## Carlosa

Sliver said:


> is there any interest in Vietnam on the new indian built artillery guns and choppers? I am just interested to see if viets keep a tab on such developments.



It could be, but we didn't hear anything on those items as far as I know. The latest item of interest according to Indian media is the Akash air defense system. I'm sure Vietnam is keeping tabs on anything that India is building.

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## Aqsuperman

Sliver said:


> is there any interest in Vietnam on the new indian built artillery guns and choppers? I am just interested to see if viets keep a tab on such developments.



Well our biggest concern lies with the Indian missiles. Mainly Brahmos but also stuff likes Barak and Akash ( this has been officially offered ). There is little else except some training and maintaining.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Working my *** off before Tet, lots of project for the Army and AF now



 Happy Tet to all.

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## Water Car Engineer

Carlosa said:


> It could be, but we didn't hear anything on those items as far as I know. The latest item of interest according to Indian media is the Akash air defense system. I'm sure Vietnam is keeping tabs on anything that India is building.




Akash system is a big one. I dont know how it'll fit in Vietnam's environment. It's India's low tier, short range SAM.

If Vietnam has the money, should go for more compact system.






India is working on such a system, but obviously several others offer similar ones. This one can travel with the armored line, with the same range as Akash. 


Barak is best suited, or Russian ones, in my opinion.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Well our biggest concern lies with the Indian missiles. Mainly Brahmos but also stuff likes Barak and Akash ( this has been officially offered ). There is little else except some training and maintaining.



I've been waiting for years for Barak 8 to come to Vietnam, I'm a fun boy of Barak 8.



Water Car Engineer said:


> Akash system is a big one. I dont know how it's fit in Vietnams environment.
> 
> If Vietnam has the money, should go for more compact system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India is working on such a system, but obviously several others offer similar ones.
> 
> 
> Barak is best suited, or Russian ones, in my opinion.



Yes, way too big, its too much of a legacy system at this point and VN is getting Spyder anyway, but Vietnam maybe interested because of the tech transfer angle.

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## Silent Knight

Water Car Engineer said:


> Akash system is a big one. I dont know how it'll fit in Vietnam's environment. It's India's low tier, short range SAM.


I strongly opposed the Akash procurement. Because I see that Akash is just a 2K12 Kub (SA-6) manufactured by India on wheeled platform. 

However, I believe the Akash is a bargaining chip for bigger project like BrahMos. Something like: "Buy Akash and we'll sell BrahMos, or nothing at all".

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## Viet

Sliver said:


> is there any interest in Vietnam on the new indian built artillery guns and choppers? I am just interested to see if viets keep a tab on such developments.


More of choppers because VN can make artillery guns. Actually we are interested of everything that can fly, from aircraft to heli to drone. Best if India offers joint production and development.

Some people may argue VN is backward can't do anything, but tend to forget that is just a snapshot of time they are seeing. Few years ago when Samsung began setting up factories in Vietnam they couldn't find any Vietnamese company to support the smartphone production chain. Today there are 200 domestic companies providing everything to Samsung exceeding 50pct localization rate. Few years ago we were unable to do much in construction field. Today we can build subways, highways, bridges and even if asked for the highest building in the world. What Vietnam needs is money, expertise, startup assistance and everything else will come with time.

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## Carlosa

Video of a beach assault by VN marines:

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Working my *** off before Tet, lots of project for the Army and AF now
> 
> Also, some locally manufactured infantry weapons for the sake of pictures:


There is a new shoulder fired antitank missile for the infantrymen called SCT-29, which should be more powerful than RPG-7. Tests were carried out. Can you reveal the specs?

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> There is a new shoulder fired antitank missile for the infantrymen called SCT-29, which should be more powerful than RPG-7. Can you reveal the specs?


As the name implies, it's a Vietnamese version of the RPG-29.

SCT = Súng Chống Tăng = Anti-Tank Weapon.

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## striver44

Silent Knight said:


> Working my *** off before Tet, lots of project for the Army and AF now
> 
> Also, some locally manufactured infantry weapons for the sake of pictures:


question, the gun above the akm, what are those? thanks


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## Viet

Vietnam PM Nguyen Xuan Phuc attends the ongoing World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, signing the first ever "Government Partnership" between Vietnam and WEF. Managing Director Philipp Roesler puts the signature for the WEF (behind him is the founder of WEF, Klaus Schwab). Honestly I have little idea of what this partnership is about. Probably one of many ideas of the Viet guy Philipp Roesler, but this one is especially made for Vietnam

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## Silent Knight

striver44 said:


> question, the gun above the akm, what are those? thanks


Our own version of the Israeli CornerShot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot


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## Viet

on german TVs, he talks about China and some others. Lets see. I may come back with a transcript if anything is worth to post here about the country in the north.


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Carlosa said:


> Video of a beach assault by VN marines:



That camo is is bad as the PLA marine infantry camo.


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## cochine

remote control machine gun in testing. ?


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> I wanted to be nice but you misunderstood the intention. You should read between the lines. Anyway do you believe we pay a penny worth of attention to such someone like Chinese or whoever or as you mention Indonesians who look down on Vietnam? You know too little about us. Keep your money. The Viet people have respect to the Japanese. Honestly speaking we admire them. *They have politeness and dignity, while you have none. We like the Japanese and their products, while Chinese are at the same level as thiefs and hooligans, Chinese products between cheap, low quality and rubbish*.
> 
> The Khmer hatred on Vietnam is bottomless but we are always ready to give them a helping hand, sacrificing our lives to stop them falling into abyss. Look at this. A victory monument erected in 1979 midst in the capital of Cambodia, remembering of Vietnam victory over the Red Khner Army, ending the genocide. That costs millions of Cambodian lives. The soldiers represent Viet and Cambodia armies, while the women holding the baby represents the Cambodia people.



Hmm

The Japanese are well behaved and polite and their products are good. But is this enough to earn respect when their countrymen deliberately starved to death millions of Vietnamese during ww2? Did they even see you as human? Did they say sorry? Pay compensation? Or even bother to mention their crimes against you in their textbooks?

China is undergoing a transformation. Just 2 more decades and China will be comfortably the largest economy by quite a large margin. Will Vietnam gain some sense and side with an ascendant China or join hands with a sinking Japan?

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## Viet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Hmm
> 
> The Japanese are well behaved and polite and their products are good. But is this enough to earn respect when their countrymen deliberately starved to death millions of Vietnamese during ww2? Did they even see you as human? Did they say sorry? Pay compensation? Or even bother to mention their crimes against you in their textbooks?
> 
> China is undergoing a transformation. Just 2 more decades and China will be comfortably the largest economy by quite a large margin. Will Vietnam gain some sense and side with an ascendant China or join hands with a sinking Japan?


if you believe money is everything, then keep your money, we don´t need it. China once had the largest GDP in the world, but our relationship was one of worst. politeness and dignity are more important to the Vietnamese people, what you lack of. the more money you have the more arrogance you put on display. yes we have seen wars with Japan, America and France but they are all short-lived, but with China, the war seems never ends. yes we rather ally with Japan going down the drain keeping our dignity. you are offered with many opportunities but you always refuse to take them. as said keep your money.


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> if you believe money is everything, then keep your money, we don´t need it. China once had the largest GDP in the world, but our relationship was one of worst. politeness and dignity are more important to the Vietnamese people, what you lack of. the more money you have the more arrogance you put on display. yes we have seen wars with Japan, America and France but they are all short-lived, but with China, the war seems never ends. *yes we rather ally with Japan going down the drain keeping our dignity*. you are offered with many opportunities but you always refuse to take them. as said keep your money.



Chinese are not arrogant, its just that the arrogant ones make the news and make everyone else look bad.

Side with Japan and sink together for all I care. But truth be told, I think that your leaders are not as foolish as you and will eventually cast their lot with China. 

For all your talk of war, China has Vietnam by the balls not militarily but by sheer size of economy and shared history and culture. Why choose confrontation when you cannot win? The war never ends because Vietnam is a violent neighbour.

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## Sliver

Viet said:


> More of choppers because VN can make artillery guns. Actually we are interested of everything that can fly, from aircraft to heli to drone. Best if India offers joint production and development.
> 
> Some people may argue VN is backward can't do anything, but tend to forget that is just a snapshot of time they are seeing. Few years ago when Samsung began setting up factories in Vietnam they couldn't find any Vietnamese company to support the smartphone production chain. Today there are 200 domestic companies providing everything to Samsung exceeding 50pct localization rate. Few years ago we were unable to do much in construction field. Today we can build subways, highways, bridges and even if asked for the highest building in the world. What Vietnam needs is money, expertise, startup assistance and everything else will come with time.



thats actually a valid point - are there any subsystems the Vietnam can offer to India for a JV of sorts?


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## Viet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Chinese are not arrogant, its just that the arrogant ones make the news and make everyone else look bad.
> 
> Side with Japan and sink together for all I care. But truth be told, I think that your leaders are not as foolish as you and will eventually cast their lot with China.
> 
> For all your talk of war, China has Vietnam by the balls not militarily but by sheer size of economy and shared history and culture. Why choose confrontation when you cannot win? The war never ends because Vietnam is a violent neighbour.


we are confronting China since not yesterday but since more than 2,000 years in case you haven´t noticed. we have more wars against China and your allies than probably any other country in the world. we are not violent without reasons. we never start a war, never firing the first shot. it is always you and your allies that want to rape and destroy Vietnam.


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> we are confronting China since not yesterday but since more than 2,000 years in case you haven´t noticed. we have more wars against China and your allies than probably any other country in the world. we are not violent without reasons. we never start a war, never firing the first shot. it is always you and your allies that want to rape and destroy Vietnam.



Are you kidding me?

Remember the kingdom of Champa? Vietnam is expansionist, its just that you cannot expand north towards China so you rampage south, adding sections and crushing kingdoms in a piecemeal manner. Like segments of bamboo, you add territory bit by bit.

Big fish eat little fish. Little fish eat even smaller fish.

My problem is that you worship countries that held your people in contempt and saw your brothers and sisters as less than human. How did the French colonial masters treat you? The Japanese? The Americans? In such a short time they did so much damage but all you remember is China.

You forget that it was the Chinese captured artillery that helped you dislodge the French at Dien Bien Phu. Chinese black flag banners who fought the French in the early days. Chinese engineers and anti air crew who held north Vietnam together against the American. Chinese rice that fed your soldiers to resist the foreign invaders.

How many died from famine deliberately induced by the French and then the Japanese? How many dead from American bombing? How much dead wildlife and trees from the pesticides sprayed on you like insects?

I know the pain of the Vietnamese people in the 20th century and for the most part it was caused by the west and Japan. China helped rid your country of their parasitic infestation.

I have nothing against Vietnam. My wife in the near future is part Vietnamese. I was born in Vietnam. And it pains me to see Vietnam lose memory so quickly of the true enemies.

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## Viet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> Remember the kingdom of Champa? Vietnam is expansionist, its just that you cannot expand north towards China so you rampage south, adding sections and crushing kingdoms in a piecemeal manner. Like segments of bamboo, you add territory bit by bit.
> 
> Big fish eat little fish. Little fish eat even smaller fish.
> 
> My problem is that you worship countries that held your people in contempt and saw your brothers and sisters as less than human. How did the French colonial masters treat you? The Japanese? The Americans? In such a short time they did so much damage but all you remember is China.
> 
> You forget that it was the Chinese captured artillery that helped you dislodge the French at Dien Bien Phu. Chinese black flag banners who fought the French in the early days. Chinese engineers and anti air crew who held north Vietnam together against the American. Chinese rice that fed your soldiers to resist the foreign invaders.
> 
> How many died from famine deliberately induced by the French and then the Japanese? How many dead from American bombing? How much dead wildlife and trees from the pesticides sprayed on you like insects?
> 
> I know the pain of the Vietnamese people in the 20th century and for the most part it was caused by the west and Japan. China helped rid your country of their parasitic infestation.
> 
> I have nothing against Vietnam. My wife in the near future is part Vietnamese. I was born in Vietnam. And it pains me to see Vietnam lose memory so quickly of the true enemies.



China always intervened when there was a danger to Chinese mainland. and you forgot it was Champa that wanted to annihilate Vietnam by launching a total of 10 invasions. should we have sat still when they sent us to gas chambers while you applauded your ally?


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> China always intervened when there was a danger to Chinese mainland. and you forgot it was Champa that wanted to annihilate Vietnam by launching a total of 10 invasions. should we have sat still when they sent us to gas chambers while you applauded your ally?



Thats beside the point.

Im not talking about grattitude or any lack of. I am talking of the Vietnamese propensity to side with and worship countries that exploited your countrymen (France, Japan) or caused the deaths of millions in the name of political ideology (U.S.A).

You have not made any comment of Japanese induced famine that killed millions. Of the French colonial masters that did the same and enslaved your people like their colonies in Africa. Instead you praise them.

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## Viet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> Thats beside the point.
> 
> Im not talking about grattitude or any lack of. I am talking of the Vietnamese propensity to side with and worship countries that exploited your countrymen (France, Japan) or caused the deaths of millions in the name of political ideology (U.S.A).
> 
> You have not made any comment of Japanese induced famine that killed millions. Of the French colonial masters that did the same and enslaved your people like their colonies in Africa. Instead you praise them.


I suggest before you lecture Vietnam, you should follow the rules you set. stop every relationships to Russia. Stop sending tourists to Japan. Stop trading with America. Oh don´t forget stop doing everything with Germany. there are more nations that came to China wanting to colonize, looting you. they killed millions of Chinese, but today as per your own logic, you worship them.

Calling you shameless clown is an understatement.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Viet said:


> I suggest before you lecture Vietnam, you should follow the rules you set. stop every relationships to Russia. Stop sending tourists to Japan. Stop trading with America. Oh don´t forget stop doing everything with Germany. there are more nations that came to China wanting to colonize, looting you. they killed millions of Chinese, but today as per your own logic, you worship them.



True. I have often spoken of the eight nation alliance that ransacked China to forever remember the past. The Chinese government will time and time again teach the people of the century of humiliation. And Chinese people have a very long memory and do not forget. Not like Vietnam it seems.

You dont care about the mass starvation under the Japanese or exploitation under the French. You only raise hell over a border war in 1979 caused when you invaded Cambodia.

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## Viet

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> True. I have often spoken of the eight nation alliance that ransacked China to forever remember the past. The Chinese government will time and time again teach the people of the century of humiliation. And Chinese people have a very long memory and do not forget. Not like Vietnam it seems.
> 
> You dont care about the mass starvation under the Japanese or exploitation under the French. You only raise hell over a border war in 1979 caused when you invaded Cambodia.


You can admit you worship them today. End of this discussion.

As for invasion of Cambodia, you ignored the fact the Khmer attacked us before we responded. By the way, you can admit were so happy to have a pretext to rape and destroy Vietnam. Thailand once invaded Cambodia and even annexed the country why you did not intervene?

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## Silent Knight

For the record.

I don't worship any country, as do our Armed Forces. We have friends, partners, frenemies (I'm looking at you, China and Cambodia). If you give us benefits, we'll return the favors, that's basically how diplomatic works.

So, can we stop this argument?

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## xiao qi

+4vsgorillas-Apebane said:


> True. I have often spoken of the eight nation alliance that ransacked China to forever remember the past. The Chinese government will time and time again teach the people of the century of humiliation. And Chinese people have a very long memory and do not forget. Not like Vietnam it seems.
> 
> You dont care about the mass starvation under the Japanese or exploitation under the French. You only raise hell over a border war in 1979 caused when you invaded Cambodia.


Not really, because now *China is still a threat to Vietnam*, Japan and US isn't

China also plays a bigger role in Vietnamese history than Japan in Chinese history. You can not talk about Vietnamese history without mentioning China. It has always been the main protagonist all the way until the French came. It faded away for the French period but then came back again during the Vietnam war and has remained relevant for Vietnam until today.

"The mass starvation under the Japanese or exploitation under the French" Right, " US killed more than one million Vietnamese" Right. But all of it doesn't important if you regards Vietnamese's history.

Vietnam is fascinated with China's power. Why not, if your neighbour had more than 3000 years of being one of the world's most powerful empires. Power is attractive, it's human instinct. And many people are fascinated with Chinese imperial history, literature, paintings, music.


The ironic thing is Vietnamese would probably not love China for these if Chinese dynasties in the past did not expand their territory, enforced their power over neighbouring countries or establishing themselves as the Middle Kingdom to be honored with tributes from vassal states.

In short, this happens with all large empires. You need to be powerful in order for your culture to be relevant and for people to like and admire your culture. But in the process of being powerful you may hurt other people. So this is when the love/hate relationship is born

For Vietnam-Cambodia war, if the diplomatic doesn't work, regards the human aspect, China should support for Vietnam because the Khmer Rouge is evil and they killed number of Chinese same as Vietnamese

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## Viet

yes maybe it is best we ignore the chinese. there are more countries in the world. on a WEF discussion, seeing again a former comrade in the German government: Mrs. von der Leyen, the minister of defence.


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## Water Car Engineer

Viet said:


> More of choppers because VN can make artillery guns. Actually we are interested of everything that can fly, from aircraft to heli to drone. Best if India offers joint production and development.




Actually, in the area of artillery is the most interesting. I dont know the area of artillery of Vietnam, but if it needs new ones, this is an area India, Indian companies can give industrial help.










*155mm/52cal ATAGS*
*









155mm/52cal Bharat 52










155mm/52cal Dhanush 
*
There are three modern 155mm/52cal arty right now, private firms like TATA, Bharat Forge(who control production) who recently enter this sector wouldnt mind working with Vietnamese on this regard.

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## jhungary

striver44 said:


> question, the gun above the akm, what are those? thanks



Top Right (My Right, Screen Left)

M79

Corner Shot (looks like standard pistol)

AKM

Top Left

M320 Clone

AK-105 (looks like it, but I think it's heavily modified)



xiao qi said:


> Not really, because now *China is still a threat to Vietnam*, Japan and US isn't
> 
> China also plays a bigger role in Vietnamese history than Japan in Chinese history. You can not talk about Vietnamese history without mentioning China. It has always been the main protagonist all the way until the French came. It faded away for the French period but then came back again during the Vietnam war and has remained relevant for Vietnam until today.
> 
> "The mass starvation under the Japanese or exploitation under the French" Right, " US killed more than one million Vietnamese" Right. But all of it doesn't important if you regards Vietnamese's history.
> 
> Vietnam is fascinated with China's power. Why not, if your neighbour had more than 3000 years of being one of the world's most powerful empires. Power is attractive, it's human instinct. And many people are fascinated with Chinese imperial history, literature, paintings, music.
> 
> 
> The ironic thing is Vietnamese would probably not love China for these if Chinese dynasties in the past did not expand their territory, enforced their power over neighbouring countries or establishing themselves as the Middle Kingdom to be honored with tributes from vassal states.
> 
> In short, this happens with all large empires. You need to be powerful in order for your culture to be relevant and for people to like and admire your culture. But in the process of being powerful you may hurt other people. So this is when the love/hate relationship is born
> 
> For Vietnam-Cambodia war, if the diplomatic doesn't work, regards the human aspect, China should support for Vietnam because the Khmer Rouge is evil and they killed number of Chinese same as Vietnamese



It's antagonist, not protagonist..........Protagonist means the good guy

And your opinion is spot on, US, France or Japanese only represent 20 years, 70 years and 10 years of Vietnam History, But the Chinese were at war (and still hostile) toward Vietnam long, ERY LONG before then, if you compare the relationship between Vietnam-China and Vietnam-US, or Vietnam-France, it's like a drop in the oceans.

Plus, US, France and Japan are miles away, and China is right next door, if you have to wary about a country, would you be worry about a country 13,000 miles away? Or 400km to Hanoi?

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## Silent Knight

jhungary said:


> Top Right (My Right, Screen Left)
> 
> M79
> 
> Corner Shot (looks like standard pistol)
> 
> AKM
> 
> Top Left
> 
> M320 Clone
> 
> AK-105 (looks like it, but I think it's heavily modified)


You were mostly right.

The AKM was upgraded by AK-103 standard. The "AK-105" is actually a Galil Ace 31 and "M320 Clone" is a PP-19 Bizon.

All are manufactured locally.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> Top Right (My Right, Screen Left)
> 
> M79
> 
> Corner Shot (looks like standard pistol)
> 
> AKM
> 
> Top Left
> 
> M320 Clone
> 
> AK-105 (looks like it, but I think it's heavily modified)
> 
> 
> 
> It's antagonist, not protagonist..........Protagonist means the good guy
> 
> And your opinion is spot on, US, France or Japanese only represent 20 years, 70 years and 10 years of Vietnam History, But the Chinese were at war (and still hostile) toward Vietnam long, ERY LONG before then, if you compare the relationship between Vietnam-China and Vietnam-US, or Vietnam-France, it's like a drop in the oceans.
> 
> Plus, US, France and Japan are miles away, and China is right next door, if you have to wary about a country, would you be worry about a country 13,000 miles away? Or 400km to Hanoi?



Hey amigo, you are back!!!! Nice to see you again. 



Water Car Engineer said:


> Actually, in the area of artillery is the most interesting. I dont know the area of artillery of Vietnam, but if it needs new ones, this is an area India, Indian companies can give industrial help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *155mm/52cal ATAGS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155mm/52cal Bharat 52
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155mm/52cal Dhanush
> *
> There are three modern 155mm/52cal arty right now, private firms like TATA, Bharat Forge(who control production) who recently enter this sector wouldnt mind working with Vietnamese on this regard.



That 155mm babe seems to have very good mobility (The Bharat 52). Vietnam could use something like that.



xiao qi said:


> Not really, because now *China is still a threat to Vietnam*, Japan and US isn't
> 
> China also plays a bigger role in Vietnamese history than Japan in Chinese history. You can not talk about Vietnamese history without mentioning China. It has always been the main protagonist all the way until the French came. It faded away for the French period but then came back again during the Vietnam war and has remained relevant for Vietnam until today.
> 
> "The mass starvation under the Japanese or exploitation under the French" Right, " US killed more than one million Vietnamese" Right. But all of it doesn't important if you regards Vietnamese's history.
> 
> Vietnam is fascinated with China's power. Why not, if your neighbour had more than 3000 years of being one of the world's most powerful empires. Power is attractive, it's human instinct. And many people are fascinated with Chinese imperial history, literature, paintings, music.
> 
> 
> The ironic thing is Vietnamese would probably not love China for these if Chinese dynasties in the past did not expand their territory, enforced their power over neighbouring countries or establishing themselves as the Middle Kingdom to be honored with tributes from vassal states.
> 
> In short, this happens with all large empires. You need to be powerful in order for your culture to be relevant and for people to like and admire your culture. But in the process of being powerful you may hurt other people. So this is when the love/hate relationship is born
> 
> For Vietnam-Cambodia war, if the diplomatic doesn't work, regards the human aspect, China should support for Vietnam because the Khmer Rouge is evil and they killed number of Chinese same as Vietnamese



Very well said sister Kiao. Happy Tet !!!!!

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## jhungary

Silent Knight said:


> You were mostly right.
> 
> The AKM was upgraded by AK-103 standard. The "AK-105" is actually a Galil Ace 31 and "M320 Clone" is a PP-19 Bizon.
> 
> All are manufactured locally.



That does not look like a Galil lol...........I think it's a bit modified (may be to take AK's 7.62 banana clips?) The receiver looks like a Galil but never saw it with that clip before.

And yes, when I click the photo, I can see clearly the top one is a bison.



Carlosa said:


> Hey amigo, you are back!!!! Nice to see you again.
> 
> 
> 
> That 155mm babe seems to have very good mobility (The Bharat 52). Vietnam could use something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Very well said sister Kiao. Happy Tet !!!!!



lol, I am back for summer vacation, but then it end this week and I have to go again in preparation for my school........

but any who, nice to see you.

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## Silent Knight

jhungary said:


> That does not look like a Galil lol...........I think it's a bit modified (may be to take AK's 7.62 banana clips?) The receiver looks like a Galil but never saw it with that clip before.


The Galil Ace 31/32 use 7.62x39mm ammunition, so yeah, they can use the AK magazine just fine


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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> More of choppers because VN can make artillery guns. Actually we are interested of everything that can fly, from aircraft to heli to drone. Best if India offers joint production and development.
> 
> Some people may argue VN is backward can't do anything, but tend to forget that is just a snapshot of time they are seeing. Few years ago when Samsung began setting up factories in Vietnam they couldn't find any Vietnamese company to support the smartphone production chain. *Today there are 200 domestic companies providing everything to Samsung exceeding 50pct localization rate*. Few years ago we were unable to do much in construction field. Today we can build subways, highways, bridges and even if asked for the highest building in the world. What Vietnam needs is money, expertise, startup assistance and everything else will come with time.


In bold, not so fast. What u don't know is that those 200 domestic companies are FDI companies based in Vietnam, not viet companies. Only 12 viet companies are involved in the supply chain of Samsung Vietnam

http://bnews.vn/chi-co-12-doanh-nghiep-viet-tham-gia-chuoi-cung-ung-cua-samsung/23815.html

Vietnam is still a backward country and can't do anything. 7 years have passed since Samsung opens its plant in bac ninh and nothing has changed much. Only 12 viet businesses have popped up to supply parts to Samsung. That's right, just 12. Heck, I even see more Vietnamese American businesses supplying aerospace parts here where I live than the 12 viet businesses in Vietnam that supply parts to Samsung.


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Hey amigo, you are back!!!! Nice to see you again.
> 
> 
> 
> That 155mm babe seems to have very good mobility (The Bharat 52). Vietnam could use something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Very well said sister Kiao. Happy Tet !!!!!


Happy 


jhungary said:


> Top Right (My Right, Screen Left)
> 
> M79
> 
> Corner Shot (looks like standard pistol)
> 
> AKM
> 
> Top Left
> 
> M320 Clone
> 
> AK-105 (looks like it, but I think it's heavily modified)
> 
> 
> 
> It's antagonist, not protagonist..........Protagonist means the good guy
> 
> And your opinion is spot on, US, France or Japanese only represent 20 years, 70 years and 10 years of Vietnam History, But the Chinese were at war (and still hostile) toward Vietnam long, ERY LONG before then, if you compare the relationship between Vietnam-China and Vietnam-US, or Vietnam-France, it's like a drop in the oceans.
> 
> Plus, US, France and Japan are miles away, and China is right next door, if you have to wary about a country, would you be worry about a country 13,000 miles away? Or 400km to Hanoi?



Yes, bro you say everything i want to express

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> In bold, not so fast. What u don't know is that those 200 domestic companies are FDI companies based in Vietnam, not viet companies. Only 12 viet companies are involved in the supply chain of Samsung Vietnam
> 
> http://bnews.vn/chi-co-12-doanh-nghiep-viet-tham-gia-chuoi-cung-ung-cua-samsung/23815.html
> 
> Vietnam is still a backward country and can't do anything. 7 years have passed since Samsung opens its plant in bac ninh and nothing has changed much. Only 12 viet businesses have popped up to supply parts to Samsung. That's right, just 12. Heck, I even see more Vietnamese American businesses supplying aerospace parts here where I live than the 12 viet businesses in Vietnam that supply parts to Samsung.


Fdi or not is not important, it is like where the money comes from, from me or from you, nobody cares. The point is a local company is established by the money. Good that you mention the numerous Viet businesses in the United States, then you know what our people are capable of.

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## Carlosa

Nice picture of the reclamation on Spratly island:

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## jhungary

hoangsa74 said:


> In bold, not so fast. What u don't know is that those 200 domestic companies are FDI companies based in Vietnam, not viet companies. Only 12 viet companies are involved in the supply chain of Samsung Vietnam
> 
> http://bnews.vn/chi-co-12-doanh-nghiep-viet-tham-gia-chuoi-cung-ung-cua-samsung/23815.html
> 
> Vietnam is still a backward country and can't do anything. 7 years have passed since Samsung opens its plant in bac ninh and nothing has changed much. Only 12 viet businesses have popped up to supply parts to Samsung. That's right, just 12. Heck, I even see more Vietnamese American businesses supplying aerospace parts here where I live than the 12 viet businesses in Vietnam that supply parts to Samsung.



You cannot build your industrial base overnight, you have to start with FDI, you need to have equipment, money and skill flood in Vietnam first, then once you get a skilled based work force and rich management type, then you can start building domestic business.

This is how China build their wealth, they don't all start with Chinese local business, most of the Chinese company are foriegn investment from Hong Kong (Before turnover), US and Europe. Then Chinese uses the money injected from these country and the skill taught and develope their own.

7 years is not a long time, China have to wait for around 17 years from 1985 door opening to 2002 when they have their industrial base fully develope.

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## Silent Knight

The last Kilo submarine has arrived.

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## Viet

Sliver said:


> thats actually a valid point - are there any subsystems the Vietnam can offer to India for a JV of sorts?


What I mean is Vietnam is interested of production of brahmos missile and joint development of more advanced variants with Indian companies for our needs. I haven't any idea yet what subsystems we can offer.



jhungary said:


> You cannot build your industrial base overnight, you have to start with FDI, you need to have equipment, money and skill flood in Vietnam first, then once you get a skilled based work force and rich management type, then you can start building domestic business.
> 
> This is how China build their wealth, they don't all start with Chinese local business, most of the Chinese company are foriegn investment from Hong Kong (Before turnover), US and Europe. Then Chinese uses the money injected from these country and the skill taught and develope their own.
> 
> 7 years is not a long time, China have to wait for around 17 years from 1985 door opening to 2002 when they have their industrial base fully develope.


Correct. Don't forget Vietnam was totally destroyed starting by zero, while the Chinese enjoy peace with decades of development before Vietnam. By the way welcome back.

for readers who are interested of the people that work for the World Economic Forum WEF.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> The last Kilo submarine has arrived.


perfect 

waiting to unload the baby that will carry some nice surprises on-board including Kalibr cruise missiles against ships and land targets for anyone that is keen on confrontation. we should acquire one more submarine squadron, supporting Russia´s military industrial complex

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## Silent Knight

The Germans are offering their Type-214, contact has been made.

And I'll leave it there

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## Viet

Industry
*Russia's Kamaz plans Vietnam expansion*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry 
20 January 2017


Russian truck manufacturer Kamaz is planning to expand its operations in Vietnam with a view to penetrating export markets in Southeast Asia, Kamaz Director General Sergey Kogogin has told the Russian state-owned Tass news agency.

Kogogin said that in 2016 Kamaz sold 1,855 trucks to Vietnam, or 20% of the company's total exports. He added that on an annual basis around 30% of its exports to Vietnam - or, in 2016, about 556 trucks - are delivered to the Vietnam People's Army (PAVN).

As a result of a free-trade agreement between Vietnam and the Eurasian Economic Union, which came into effect in October 2016, Kogogin said Vietnam is "becoming more attractive" and that the company is better positioned to export its trucks to regional countries, particularly Cambodia and Laos.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> The Germans are offering their Type-214, contact has been made.
> 
> And I'll leave it there



I used to hear a rumor about VN being interested in the new type 26 sub from Sweden that is under development. Have you heard anything on that?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I used to hear a rumor about VN being interested in the new type 26 sub from Sweden that is under development. Have you heard anything on that?


I would rather see Vietnam acquires the technology of building the Kilo, so we could produce as many subs as we want. Acquiring German submarine has pro and con. they are much more expensive and have less weaponry on-board then of Russia. unless, Vietnam intends to follow Israel military doctrine, acquiring a squadron of German submarines equipped with stealth feature, fuel-cell, AIP, enlarged torpedo tubes for firing nuclear missiles. for nuclear retaliation. I think, as the US has their hand over Germany, such a deal would require a go-ahead of both the US administration and US Congress. am not saying conventional german sub is bad

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I would rather see Vietnam acquires the technology of building the Kilo, so we could produce as many subs as we want. Acquiring German submarine has pro and con. they are much more expensive and have less weaponry on-board then of Russia. unless, Vietnam intends to follow Israel military doctrine, acquiring a squadron of German submarines equipped with stealth feature, fuel-cell, AIP, enlarged torpedo tubes for firing nuclear missiles. for nuclear retaliation. I think, as the US has their hand over Germany, such a deal would require a go-ahead of both the US administration and US Congress. am not saying conventional german sub is bad



Swedish subs are quite cheap and very lethal. They can be modified to carry calibr missiles. It would be easier to get full tech transfer with them as part of a deal where some subs are purchased and some are built under license. Its not easy to get tech transfer from the Russians.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Swedish subs are quite cheap and very lethal. Then can be modified to carry calibr missiles. It would be easier to get full tech transfer with them as part of a deal where some subs are purchased and some are built under license. Its not easy to get tech transfer from the Russians.


if the swedes agree we can build submarines in our shipyards then I won´t say NO


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## Viet

*Belarus plans to exchange space information with Vietnam*
Society 20.01.2017 | 15:55

*



*
_Sergei Zolotoi_





_Belarusian satellite BKA-1_


MINSK, 20 January (BelTA) – Belarus plans to use its satellite as part of a cluster with the satellites of Vietnam and Kazakhstan, Sergei Zolotoi, Director of the R&D enterprise Geoinformation Systems of the National Academy of Sciences of Belarus, told a press conference hosted by BelTA on 20 January.

“We are currently in talks with Vietnam and Kazakhstan on the operation of our satellites in the cluster. If all the issues are settled, we will be able to exchange space information,” said Sergei Zolotoi. He stressed that the operation of satellites in a cluster is a global tendency.

*Vietnam is interested in monitoring the islands situated on the border with China*. “Vietnam has its satellite, which is similar to ours. It was launched by France. There are technical problems, however, as the technology installed on the Vietnamese spacecraft by the Europeans does not make it possible to integrate with other satellites. Besides, Vietnam has its legislative constraints. They do not have the right to sell or pass the information from their satellite to anybody. If we reach a consensus here, we will be able to organize an exchange of space information,” said Sergei Zolotoi.

Belarus is also in talks with Kazakhstan. “Kazakhstan has two satellites on orbit. We expect that the intergovernmental agreement on space cooperation with Kazakhstan will be signed and ratified in the near future. The agreement was worked out a year ago. It will open up room for closer cooperation between the two countries,” Sergei Zolotoi said.

He also spoke about outer space activities in cooperation with Velezuela. Belarus is implementing a project for Venezuela. The project envisages the observation of soil erosion at the seaside. “We compared the materials produced in 1953 with the information received from the satellite in 2016. We saw that a sufficiently large territory has been affected due to erosion. This is the matter for interstate regulation. The project got great response,” said Sergei Zolotoi. In his words, another project for Venezuela is under consideration. Belarus may be tasked with monitoring the country's hardly accessible areas.

http://eng.belta.by/society/view/be...formation-with-vietnam-kazakhstan-98108-2017/


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## Carlosa

*Russian ‘military experts’: The Bigfoot sightings of the Vietnam War*
BY SOFREP 01.20.2017

https://sofrep.com/72846/russian-military-experts-bigfoot-sightings-vietnam-war/

It was a bit like Bigfoot; lots of rumors and claims of sightings, but spotting a Soviet troop in Southeast Asia was a rare event. Throughout the 69-year existence of the Soviet Union (1922-1991), it was acceptable in most realms to use Russia as a synonym for the Soviet Union. Likewise, Russians for Soviets. True, the Russian republic comprised two thirds of the Soviet Union, Russian was the official language, and Russians dominated the government. But less than half of the population were actually Russian. The other 14 republics were comprised of dozens of nationalities and ethnic groups. United under totalitarian communist rule, the Soviet Union was a superpower and made no bones about its ultimate goal: to eventually spread communism throughout the world by any means possible. It was in their written doctrine, the public speeches made by their leaders, and was followed up by their actions.

Support for communist movements across the globe via political support and arms was expected and maintained. Their progress was steady. From 1922 until 1983, each and every country that fell to communist control remained within that sphere. Post-WWII, the major democracies attempted to thwart this growth in every way possible short of launching an all-out war with the Soviet Union and its allies. It was widely accepted by both sides that such a war might well begin as a conventional conflict, but as soon as one side began to lose, it would escalate to chemical warfare, then tactical nuclear weapons would be employed. Finally, inevitably, an all-out thermonuclear exchange would occur, destroying civilization as we know it. This is the mutually assured destruction (MAD) doctrine that has been in place 50+ years. The Soviets refrained from getting too aggressive but remained resolute that “world communism” would someday win out. It was an all-out game of chess with freedom and/or the survival of the world at stake. It was the Cold War era.

Regional conflicts, guerrilla wars, brush wars, and “police actions” were the name of the game as former colonies fought for their independence and dictators in Third-World countries were deposed in revolutions. It was the U.S. against Soviet-supported communists in most of these hotspots, the two forces engaged in a delicate dance. Fight hard, but not too hard. Difficult for politicians, challenging for spooks, and impossibly frustrating for warriors. Enter Southeast Asia following the exit of imperial Japan. Bordering Vietnam to the west is Laos, which fought a civil war from 1953 to 1975. It is poor, heavily forested, mountainous, and has very few roads. It’s an incredibly remote and difficult country to navigate. The U.S. supported the Laotian government while communist guerrillas were supported by the Soviet Union and North Vietnam. 

In 1962, a non-interference treaty was signed to keep both sides from escalating the conflict. Yet both continued—quietly. It was the “secret war” everyone knew about, but no one officially admitted. We secretly supplied weapons, training, communications, and logistical support through various means with the most famous being the CIA’s Air America. While the film of the same name was a decent comedy, it unfairly portrayed the operation and its personnel as silly, outlandish, and corrupt. In fact, some of the finest and bravest Americans ever to volunteer and serve wore the civilian uniform of Air America.

Laos was also a major component of the Vietnam War. It was a twilight zone of North Vietnamese troop and supply routes, the Ho Chi Minh trail, guerrilla bases, MACV-SOG missions, neutrals, secret mountaintop listening posts, and relay stations. Today, 41 years after the fall of South Vietnam, American MIAs in Laos include 50 SF and 260 airmen—106 of whom died while supporting SOG missions. We weren’t officially there. But we were. So too were Soviet “military experts,” as they preferred to call themselves. Some were pilots, others were communications experts and observers. The numbers are not clear, but they were not nearly as large as the U.S. presence. Again, neither side wanted an escalation, but both were determined to support their allies.






One encounter with Soviets in Laos was experienced by SOG team ST Idaho while on a recon mission near the Ho Chi Minh trail in early November, 1968. John Stryker Meyer, the team’s 1-0, explains in his book, “Across the Fence,” how, while on a jungle mountaintop in the middle of the night, as he was switching channels on their PRC-25 radio, he suddenly heard someone speaking Russian. These radios were not very powerful, so he instantly knew the source had to be relatively close. As he continued to listen, another team member witnessed the base of the westerly mountain “light up like a Christmas tree” as a secret drop zone came to life. They soon heard a plane and witnessed the Soviet aircraft release its cargo. It was the rarest of sightings, but it was real.

Many months later, a second, more dramatic encounter occurred with RT Idaho. This time, 1-0 Lynne Black and 1-1 Doug LeTourneau were on a secret mission into the demilitarized zone (DMZ) between North and South Vietnam. LeTourneau was monitoring their radio when out of the blue came “RT Idaho. Come in, RT Idaho.” Surprised, he responded. The voice then asked what they were doing. It was spoken in English, but with a heavy Russian accent recognized by Black. He went on to inform them he knew their coordinates and that they were going to be either killed or captured. This conversation lasted over 15 minutes, with startling intel coming from the Russian, including his knowing Black’s and LeTourneau’s names. He also revealed the name of another team member he knew had just gone home. The team was soon extracted under heavy enemy fire. It clearly demonstrated that MACV-SOG had a serious leak, a mole, directly in their inner circle.

Within South Vietnam, rumors persisted for years among snipers that Soviet countersnipers had infiltrated the South to personally test the then-new SVD Dragunov sniper rifles. Men with blue eyes were reportedly spotted with NVA cadre, but no firm evidence ever presented itself. When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, many archives were opened and individuals felt free to begin telling their stories. During this time, it was officially acknowledged that over 3,000 Soviet soldiers served in North Vietnam during the war. They were designated as “Soviet military experts,” not soldiers, thus permitting the official claim no Soviet soldiers ever served in Vietnam. The vast majority were Ukrainian anti-aircraft artillery troops who manned the various gun and missile sites throughout the North used against American bombers. It became known following Operation Tailwind, in the Bolovens Plains in Laos, that the Soviet crews manned the rapid-fire anti-aircraft artillery used against our aircraft. In their official capacity, they were told they were fulfilling their international duty to protect communism from the “imperialists.” They operated the SA-2 missile and radar tracking stations as well as the various-size AAA guns. Many believed in their mission and are very proud of their service. Others found the mission distasteful. In their racist worldview, they did not appreciate orders to kill whites in defense of Asians, even if it was their duty.

In providing their own personnel for anti-aircraft duties, the Soviets fulfilled two purposes. First, they were able to send their latest and most sophisticated systems to protect the North without the training obligations necessary to prepare the Vietnamese. They were able to keep the systems under their direct control for security as well. While North Vietnam was a Soviet ally, it was not necessarily a trusted ally. North Vietnam was not always forthcoming with their Soviet allies in regards to sharing intelligence. It is easy to assume all the communist countries were solidly united in their goals, but this is just not the case.

During this period, China was at odds with the Soviet Union to the extent that a brief border war was fought for Zhenbao Island in the Xinjiang Region in 1969. According to numerous sources, including Henry Kissinger’s accounts, Soviet nuclear and biological weapon strikes were considered. *Soviet supplies and weapons were not shipped through China to Vietnam as early efforts failed. The Chinese diverted and stole much of it. It had to be shipped by sea directly. China and Vietnam also had their differences, dating back centuries. However, China did provide North Vietnam with food, medical supplies, radios, and clothing.*

The second reason for Soviet personnel in North Vietnam was self-serving: They could test and evaluate their most sophisticated radars and missiles directly against the best aircraft the Americans had to offer. It was an unparalleled proving ground. In the intelligence community, it is acknowledged that the Soviets would also have had a keen interest in exploiting any advanced U.S. equipment they could acquire. We call them foreign material exploitation (FME) personnel. For this reason, the U.S. refrained from sending certain items into the field. Some special operations historians were at first puzzled by how no decent communication encryption gear was sent along with the teams. It left the teams exposed to a degree, but the loss of such equipment to the enemy was considered a greater risk.

There was at least one significant loss during the war—that of a KW-7 cryptographic code machine. Issued at battalion level, it was lost in battle between the North and South Vietnamese forces. These machines were critical to U.S. operations all over the world and were used by all armed forces as well as the Department of State and major allies. Its acquisition by the Soviets would have been huge, especially in light of the spy John Walker, who at the time was selling U.S. Navy codes for just such a machine to the Soviets.

Beginning in 1968, the U.S. Air Force deployed the F-111A to Vietnam for the first time. This new attack bomber had many top-of-the-line advanced features including terrain-following radar (TFR), which allowed it to fly as low as possible, in all weather, to avoid enemy radar systems. It would have been the Holy Grail for Soviet FME folks. Ten aircraft were lost in North Vietnam and Laos, and circumstantial evidence indicates the enemy did indeed get their hands on at least one crash site. An F-111A escape capsule from Vietnam now sits in a Moscow museum, and evasive witnesses have been a problem for U.S. recovery teams.

The opening of Soviet archives for a period in the 1990s has not been totally conclusive on many aspects of the Vietnam War, but one major question seems clear. In spite of all the rumors and legends, no U.S. POWs were ever sent to the Soviet Union. The Vietnam War was a major battle in the Cold War, and in that context, it made a tremendous impression on Soviet thinking. They generally concluded that if the U.S., Australia, and South Korea were willing to commit such huge resources of equipment and personnel to fighting for some Asian backwater with no substantial resources or strategic value, just imagine the fight they would put up for Western Europe!

_Alan R. Wise worked in the intelligence community for 10 years and has been a consultant with the U.S. Air Force. He is active in firearms and survival instruction and currently operates Arktis North America, LLC. As a writer/photographer, he was a regular contributor to Behind The Lines: The Journal of U.S. Special Operations, Armor, National Defense, and the Journal of Defense and Diplomacy magazines. He has authored five military-related books, including one novel, “Caught In The Game.”_

_This article previously published by SOFREP 05.12.2016_

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## Viet

ASIA
*Japan’s Emperor Akihito to Visit Vietnam*
Emperor’s trip to Vietnam in February follows Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s visit to Hanoi





Japanese Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko at the Imperial Palace in Tokyo on Jan. 2, 2017. The emperor and empress are scheduled to visit Vietnam and Thailand. PHOTO: TOSHIFUMI KITAMURA/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES
By PETER LANDERS
Jan. 19, 2017 10:56 p.m. ET


TOKYO—Emperor Akihito will visit Vietnam in late February, Japan said Friday, a trip aimed at cementing ties with a nation that Tokyo sees as part of a regional bulwark against China’s territorial ambitions.

The 83-year-old emperor’s visit to Vietnam, scheduled to take place from Feb. 28 to March 5, follows on the heels of a stop in Hanoi on Monday by Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

The visit to Vietnam will be the first by an emperor of Japan, the foreign ministry said. Emperor Akihito, who will be accompanied by Empress Michiko, will also stop in Thailand to pay a condolence call over the death in October of King Bhumibol Adulyadej.


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## Viet

Congratulation to Donald Trump to officially becoming the president of the United States.

Not too bad. He has come from a long way. Has anyone observed his speech? from shocked to amazed to unprecedented. It seems he is determined to do what he believes it is the right thing decided by God for the people. A hurricane is on the horizon. Anyway, the government of Vietnam signals great flexibility if the US administration wants a better deal for America. Everything in the TPP package can be renegotiable. So everything else. Donald Trump slogans are America first and greatness, we can help him a bit in achieving his goals when he returns Vietnam a favor. America can retain the dominant power in Asia in this century. Not really a bad thing for the people in the western Pacific.

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## Carlosa

*Growing India-Vietnam strategic ties will mean a more stable Indo-Pacific*
*http://www.nerve.in/news:2535003887126*
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Vietnam on September 2-3, 2016. The visit was the first by an Indian Prime Minister after 15 years. Twelve agreements were signed during the visit which included cooperation in outer space, UN peacekeeping, avoidance of double-taxation, cyber security, information technology, information on white shipping and contract for procurement of offshore patrol vessels. 

Further, based on the strong relations which have been vindicated during the last 44 years of diplomatic relations and nine years of strategic partnership, both the countries agreed to elevate their current level of strategic partnership to a higher level. The relationship would be upgraded to the level of Comprehensive Strategic Partnership which Vietnam currently enjoys with Russia and China.

This is pertinent as it gives an official stamp to the mutual trust exhibited in our training and day-to-day dealings. With regard to the defence issue, there is no doubt that both the countries respect the recent Permanent Court of Arbitration ruling on the South China Sea and they agree to the freedom of navigation on the high seas.

To further strengthen the defence relationship, Prime Minister Modi extended a $500 million Line of Credit for purchase of defence equipment. The list of equipment to be procured is not exactly known but there is a high probability it could be frigates, submarines or the BrahMos missile. Vietnam during the visit signed a contract with L&T for purchase of four Offshore Patrol Vessels.

In addition, Prime Minister Modi announced a grant of $5 million for the construction of an Army Software Park at the Telecommunications University in Nha Trang. Further to assist surveillance, there will be cooperation in downloading images from outer space to provide real-time picture of activities in Vietnam's area of interest.

Economic issues formed an important aspect of the visit. Enhancing bilateral economic engagement is a strategic objective. Both the countries would do their utmost to increase the bilateral trade to $15 billion by 2020. This would need immense efforts but can be achieved if both the countries enhance their business interactions and diversify their range of commercial activities. Further, there must be increased two-way investment especially by private investors of both countries.

Prime Minister Modi especially sought contractual facilitation of Tata's Soc Tranh 1320 MW plant at the earliest. Both the countries would do their best to enhance exploration of oil and gas in the new blocks allotted for exploration. Connectivity between both the countries needs to be optimised. There is need for direct non-stop flights, dedicated shipping, and land connectivity to be optimised. This would automatically strengthen economic relations between the two countries.

It was indeed creditable that both the countries exhibited the highest degree of cooperation in regional and international forums. Prime Minister Modi was grateful to Vietnam for consistently supporting India's candidature for a permanent seat in a reformed Security Council. It was further decided that India would support Vietnam's candidature for non-permanent seat for the term 2020-2021 and Vietnam would similarly support India's candidature for the same in 2021-2022. Overall, India and Vietnam relations moved to a higher trajectory during the visit.

India and Vietnam enjoy strong strategic relations which emerged with the First Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on Defence being signed in 1994, the formal Defence Protocol in 2000 and the Strategic Partnership in 2007. Ever since, we have an annual Strategic Defence Dialogue with the Indian Defence Secretary representing India. Considering the intensity of the bilateral relations, the upgradation of these talks to the Ministerial levels would commence.

The Cam Ranh Bay has been often described as one of the jewels of Vietnam. The long protective seaward peninsula, natural inner and outer harbours form what many believe to be possibly the best deep water sea port facility in the entire world. There is also an air force base with excellent runways for state-of-the-art aircraft. The usage of these facilities by the Indian Navy and Indian Air Force would help India strengthen its strategic partnership and enable us to undertake actions to protect our assets in the South China Sea. The area is being quietly considered between the two countries.

Based on Vietnam's requirements, India could provide Dornier surveillance aircraft, mini Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), upgraded T-72 tanks and indigenously manufactured artillery equipment once the same has proved trials and a few old ships of the Indian Navy. Vietnam is currently procuring Offshore Patrol Vessels with the line of credit offered.

Vietnam is impressed with India's missile development and is keen to purchase the supersonic cruise missile BrahMos which could be used on land and sea. The issue merits serious consideration as there are no objections from the foreign joint developer. Vietnam is also keen that opportunity be accorded to train their scientists in missile technology and running of nuclear reactors.

Vietnam admires the professional training of the Indian armed forces and looks forward to assistance in training in the following areas:




Conversion training for SU-30 pilots of the Peoples Vietnam Air Force by the Indian Air Force



Submarine crew training of the Peoples Vietnam Navy by the Indian Navy



Training in counter-insurgency and jungle warfare with the Indian Army



Training in English language
Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang as also the General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Nguyen Phu Trong and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc were frank in strengthening defence relations with India. Vietnam would like to cooperate in the field of training as also gaining knowledge in the field of rocketry and missiles. It would be in India's interest to cultivate Vietnam and cooperate in strategic aspects to dissuade China from undertaking a misadventure.

Vietnam is looking for cooperation with India in areas of outer space. It has already launched two satellites and is planning its own navigation satellites. Cooperation with India would be mutually beneficial to both the countries. India is also setting up receiving stations to enable Vietnam receive downloads from Indian Reconnaissance Satellites on the areas bound by the South China Sea.

Vietnam, along with Japan, forms the two pillars of India's Act East Policy and New Delhi's partnership with Hanoi in the strategic domain is important to counter China's growing assertiveness in the region. The Modi government in India is accelerating measures to further strengthen the bonds of friendship. This would lead to better stability in the Indo-Pacific region.

(Major General P.K. Chakravorty (retd) is an Indian Army veteran who served as Defence Attache at the Indian Embassy in Hanoi. The views expressed are personal. The article is in special arrangement with South Asia Monitor/www.southasiamonitor.org)

--IANS

pkc/vm

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## Viet

There is a recent article In the viet site baodatviet citing a Russian website. Besides deploying the principal weapons S-300 and S-125 against aerial threats, protecting the two major cities Hanoi and Saigon, a series of Buk and Pantsir anti aircraft missile batteries are in place to protect important military installations especially the major naval base Camranh bay.

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## Viet

Most people probably don't know Vietnam and Syria are the only two countries in the world that offer the Navy of Russia to re-supply of oil, water, food and everything including maintenance and rest. The government of Russia just signs an agreement with Syria to expand the naval operations. I won't wonder if Russia will sign similar agreement with Vietnam.

Welcome!

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Most people probably don't know Vietnam and Syria are the only two countries in the world that offer the Navy of Russia to re-supply of oil, water, food and everything including maintenance and rest. The government of Russia just signs an agreement with Syria to expand the naval operations. I won't wonder if Russia will sign similar agreement with Vietnam.
> 
> Welcome!


Unlikely. They left Cam Ranh Naval Base in 2002. Now the base is offered for logistic support and resupply for every navies in the world, not just Russia. It's business now.

Russian Navy might get more privileges but they won't get a permanent base like Cam Ranh before 2002 or Tartus now.

On a side note, here's a video:


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## AViet

To be honest, i do not know what weapons Vietnam has bought from India, or this is only plan or daydream of the Indian, as usual. Any Vietnamese professional here can enlighten me? 

I frequently visit soha.com and ttvnol.com, but not any concrete info about this.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Unlikely. They left Cam Ranh Naval Base in 2002. Now the base is offered for logistic support and resupply for every navies in the world, not just Russia. It's business now.
> 
> Russian Navy might get more privileges but they won't get a permanent base like Cam Ranh before 2002 or Tartus now.
> 
> On a side note, here's a video:


I remember of a chat with a chinese poster here some time ago. he suggested Vietnam had no other option but surrendered all of holdings in the SC Sea to China, considering his nation´s military power. as a sign of generosity, he said China would give Vietnam money to compensate for the loss of buildings and constructions Vietnam has undertaken on her islands. do you have any idea what can be done to stop his big mouth? I think Moscow knows what Vietnam wants: security and prosperity. everything else is secondary, including a fake friendship with a certain communist neighbour. a good deal is Giving a naval base to Russia if Moscow provides security guarantee to Vietnam.

in the meanwhile, although many of Vietnam military assets are outdated, but they still will ask any aggressor to pay a price. unless some hooligans claim being invincible. we will see.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Donald Trump is right when he demands Japan, S Korea and all other must *pay more for the US military umbrella. **Security is not free*.





Viet said:


> a good deal is Giving a naval base to Russia *if Moscow provides security guarantee to Vietnam*.


Great ideas!

But how much you can pay to Russia? Don't take the naval base as your payment, US holds countless navy or air bases in Korea and Japan.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Great ideas!
> 
> But how much you can pay to Russia? Don't take the naval base as your payment, US holds countless navy or air bases in Korea and Japan.


if any then will be a mutual defence treaty, if a partner is attacked, the other partner is obliged to provide everything to her partner´s defence. Vietnam does not need huge military presence of Russian troops on her sole, unlike the US armed forces, that maintain large presence in Japan and South Korea causing huge costs. actually I think, Russia should pay for Vietnam contribution assisting them in maintaining the great power status. we provide not only support for Russia naval fleets but for their strategic bombers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-vietnam-russia-exclusive-idUSKBN0M71NA20150311


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> we are your next immediate neighbour. *but you give us nothing*





Viet said:


> suffering under Chinese aggression *but we receive nearly nothing in return from our friends.*





Viet said:


> Considering we pay the patrol boats by a loan, that is* very cheap for Japan.*





Viet said:


> actually I think, *Russia should pay for Vietnam* contribution assisting them in maintaining the great power status.



Seems that the entire world is owing money to Vietnam. What a powerful country!!

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## Aqsuperman

Meh in my PERSONAL opinion, anything or anyone that can help with our defense industry and homeland integrity is much welcome. But to let another nation get involved directly may not be the best idea. Take South Korea for example, their researches on rocket range and payload are limited by the US. And with the sinking of ROKS Cheonan, which is a corvette fully manned by military personnel, people would have want a more severe response from the US instead of mere "condemn" and "more sanctions". But hey, US prefers to bomb the crap outta Libya just because an unknown street vendor set himself on fire. That is life. Lets get everything we can and not get into anyone palm. Sure we cant wish for something serious but better safe than sorry. 

Some picture of VN Mobile Police.






The 2nd and the 6th guy from left to right. A firing contest in China, i think






Korean-made APC






Close up






Modified RAM-2000 to assault low to medium building

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Seems that the entire world is owing money to Vietnam. What a powerful country!!


don´t twist my words. I never say something of powerful stuff. actually Vietnam is like a nice guy. nice to everybody, even to China. Look, the communist boss rarely makes overseas visit. in his first term in office, he went to China for a official visit at the end of his 10 year term. this time is different. he went to China in the first year after he was re-elected. yes he goes to China, looking for security and prosperity for Vietnam, for a better understanding, but he returns with nothing. oh yes, a dog getting a bone, like a Chinese poster here said.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> don´t twist my words. I never say something of powerful stuff. actually Vietnam is like a nice guy. nice to everybody, even to China. Look, the communist boss rarely makes overseas visit. in his first term in office, he went to China for a official visit at the end of his 10 year term. this time is different. he went to China in the first year after he was re-elected. yes he goes to China, looking for security and prosperity, but he returns with nothing. oh yes, a dog getting a bone, like a Chinese poster here said.


but these are all your posts in the past week. the core theme in your post is: give us more money, that is what you owe us for different reasons, no matter you are China, USA, Japan, or Russia.

BTW, please not blame me for the words that NOT said by me, like bones blabla. I don't think I've ever mentioned the posts of other VN posters in front of you. They are not your words, how can I ask you to take the corresponding responsibilities? Hope you can follow the same rule.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> but these are all your posts in the past week. the core theme in your post is: give us more money, that is what you owe us for different reasons, no matter you are China, USA, Japan, or Russia.
> 
> BTW, please not blame me for the words that NOT said by me, like bones blabla. I don't think I've ever mentioned the posts of other VN posters in front of you. They are not your words, how can I ask you to take the corresponding responsibilities? Hope you can follow the same rule.


I learn a bit from Donald Trump. He is right in asking US allies and partners to share the burden. Yes also he is right in saying if one is too nice other people will not only laugh at him but take advantage in raping America.

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## Viet

Test firing improved BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launcher, 40 tubes, calibre 122 mm, range 20 km. usually against land targets, but now capable to bombard enemy surface warships and submarines.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> a good deal is Giving a naval base to Russia if Moscow provides security guarantee to Vietnam.


Nope, absolutely not.

The principle of Vietnamese military and foreign relations nowadays is that we do not rely on any country or state to secure our sovereignty and national interests. South Vietnam learned that the hard way (or easy way, depending on who you ask) in 1974, Philippines too in recent years.

We do not beg other countries to take care of us. These mentality will cost us much more than you might think.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Nope, absolutely not.
> 
> The principle of Vietnamese military and foreign relations nowadays is that we do not rely on any country or state to secure our sovereignty and national interests. South Vietnam learned that the hard way (or easy way, depending on who you ask) in 1974, Philippines too in recent years.
> 
> We do not beg other countries to take care of us. These mentality will cost us much more than you might think.


no worry, my posts are frequently read by overseas friends and no-friends. in some cases it is not what it may appear. sometimes you should read and look my comments from this perspective


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## Carlosa

*Russia Truck Giant Eyes ASEAN Market With Vietnam Expansion*
Kamaz wants to boost its presence in Southeast Asia.





By Prashanth Parameswaran
January 23, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/russia-truck-giant-eyes-asean-market-with-vietnam-expansion/

Last week, the director-general of Russia’s biggest truck manufacturer, Kamaz, said that the company plans to boost the export of its trucks to Vietnam as part of a broader move to expand its presence in other Southeast Asian markets.

Kamaz Director General Sergey Kogogin told Russian state-owned TASS news agency that the firm plans to expand its presence in Vietnam, with a view that more Kamaz trucks could also be then supplied to neighboring ASEAN countries such as Laos and Cambodia.

Kogonin’s statement that Kamaz intends to boost its Vietnamese presence is no surprise. Kamaz has had a long relationship with Vietnam, with the first truck delivered to the country back in 1979. And Vietnam’s attractiveness as a country has only grown in recent years, with it becoming the top export market for Kamaz last year, when the Vietnam and the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU) inked a free trade pact. Kogonin said that in 2016, Kamaz exported 1,855 trucks to Vietnam – which constituted a fifth of its overall exports – and that around 30 percent of that went to the Vietnamese military.

Kogonin’s emphasis to TASS that Kamaz’s policy is “aimed at long-term presence [in] the Vietnamese market, seen as a strategic one in the Asia-Pacific” is also not entirely new. The economic difficulties in Russia and Central Asian markets mean that Kamaz has had to look elsewhere to boost exports, and booming Asian markets like Vietnam and India have been a key part of this reorientation.

But it is still unclear how exactly Kamaz would make greater inroads into Vietnam, and how successful it will be. Kogonin said Kamaz was thinking about boosting production facilities that it had established in Vietnam to add to its capabilities, and that it was in the process of analyzing prospects before determining its further strategy with respect to Asian markets. In fact, though Kamaz has had joint ventures in Vietnam in the past that had helped it boost vehicle sales, progress had been slow and some previous moves to expand this further had been met with frustration. Conditions in place in Vietnam as well as the presence of other competitors in certain parts of the market have proven challenging previously and are likely to remain so in the future as well, despite recent inroads.

If Kamaz does end up going forward with the plan, however, this could have effects not just on its prospects in other Southeast Asian markets, but for its role in Vietnam as well. For instance, some have speculated that improvements in its business model could increase the attractiveness of its products relative to other rival brands in Vietnam, including those from China that already face issues such as quality.

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## Carlosa

*China's free ride in SCS is over*

*Trump White House vows to stop China taking South China Sea islands*
By David Brunnstrom and Matt Spetalnick

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-white-house-vows-stop-china-taking-south-005717307.html?ref=gs

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The new U.S. administration of President Donald Trump vowed on Monday that the United States would prevent China from taking over territory in international waters in the South China Sea, something Chinese state media has warned would require Washington to "wage war."

The comments at a briefing from White House spokesman Sean Spicer signaled a sharp departure from years of cautious U.S. handling of China's assertive pursuit of territory claims in Asia, just days after Trump took office on Friday.

"The U.S. is going to make sure that we protect our interests there," Spicer said when asked if Trump agreed with comments by his secretary of state nominee, Rex Tillerson, on Jan. 11 that China should not be allowed access to islands it has built in the contested South China Sea.

"It’s a question of if those islands are in fact in international waters and not part of China proper, then yeah, we’re going to make sure that we defend international territories from being taken over by one country," he said.

Tillerson's remarks at his Senate confirmation hearing prompted Chinese state media to say the United States would need to "wage war" to bar China's access to the islands where it has built military-length air strips and installed weapons systems.

Tillerson was asked at the hearing whether he supported a more aggressive posture toward China and said: "We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed.”

The former Exxon Mobil Corp chairman and chief executive did not elaborate on what might be done to deny China access to the islands.

But analysts said his comments, like those of Spicer, suggested the possibility of U.S. military action, or even a naval blockade, that would risk armed confrontation with China, an increasingly formidable nuclear-armed military power. It is also the world's second-largest economy and the target of accusations by Trump that it is stealing American jobs.

Spicer declined to elaborate when asked how the United States could enforce such a move against China, except to say: “I think, as we develop further, we’ll have more information on it.”

Tillerson narrowly won approval from a Senate committee on Monday and is expected to win confirmation from the full Senate.

RISK OF DANGEROUS ESCALATION

Military experts said that while the U.S. Navy has extensive capabilities in Asia to stage blockading operations with ships, submarines and planes, any such move against China's growing naval fleets would risk dangerous escalation.

Aides have said that Trump plans a major naval build-up in East Asia to counter China's rise.

China's embassy in Washington did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the White House remarks.

China's Foreign Ministry said earlier this month it could not guess what Tillerson meant by his remarks, which came after Trump questioned Washington's longstanding and highly sensitive "one-China" policy over Taiwan.

Washington-based South China Sea expert Mira Rapp-Hooper at the Center for a New American Security called the threats to bar China's access in the South China Sea "incredible" and said it had no basis in international law.

"A blockade - which is what would be required to actually bar access - is an act of war," she added.

"The Trump administration has begun to draw red lines in Asia that they will almost certainly not be able to uphold, but they may nonetheless be very destabilizing to the relationship with China, invite crises, and convince the rest of the world that the United States is an unreliable partner."

Bonnie Glaser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank called Spicer's remarks "worrisome" and said the new administration was "sending confusing and conflicting messages."

Dean Cheng, a China expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said Spicer's remarks showed the South China Sea was an important issue for the Trump administration.

He said it was significant that neither Spicer nor Tillerson had been specific as to what actions would be taken and this left open the possibility that economic measures - instead of military steps - could be used against China and firms that carry out island building.

(Reporting by David Brunnstrom and Matt Spetalnick; Editing by Andrew Hay and Cynthia Osterman)

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## Silent Knight

Meanwhile, the final Kilo class in 2009 contract has been docked and delivered.

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## Aqsuperman

To mark the event, here are pictures of the submarine force.

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## initial_d

Aqsuperman said:


> To mark the event, here are pictures of the submarine force.


Are all vietnamese submarine to be base at one base only?! Wow, putting all your precious egg on one basket....

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## Aqsuperman

initial_d said:


> Are all vietnamese submarine to be base at one base only?! Wow, putting all your precious egg on one basket....



Well Cam Ranh Naval Base is pretty much well defended by both Airforce and Air Defence units. The harbor depth, the support facilities and the security layers are very suitable too. And while there is no official confirmation, i quite sure that there is a submarine pen complex around the mountain with multiple exits so as the submarine can take refuge when under heavy air attack and sortie undetected.


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## Viet

the last words on World economic forum in Davos. the WEF bosses Philipp Rösler and Klaus Schwab in talk with German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble. yes, the man with the money here in the country. I wonder when he will agree to lower income taxes for poor people like me. has anyone read Germany export figures for the last year? a country with smaller population than Vietnam but exported more than $1,200 billion of goods and services last year. crazy. the trade surplus is much more crazier so that I don´t dare to put the number here. I wish Vietnam can copy the Germans a bit. Acquiring their submarines is probably a good start, helping Germany to achieve higher performance in export


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## Viet

initial_d said:


> Are all vietnamese submarine to be base at one base only?! Wow, putting all your precious egg on one basket....


a submarine base requires many conditions. a place that is suitable to protect our ships against natural and unnatural enemies. the most important conditions is a stable water depth of min 20 meters. until now, only Camranh fulfils all conditions, but there are many deep-see projects underway such as Lach Huyen in the northern and Cai Mep in southern part. other possibility may be expanding and dregding the current naval base on Phu Quoc island in the Gulf of Thailand. the port is far from the South China sea, offering a bit more protection against possible Chinese aerial and naval assaults on the submarine base. we can expect Vietnam submarines fleets will increase in size in the times to come.

Lach Huyen





Cai Mep






Phu Quoc

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## Silent Knight

initial_d said:


> Are all vietnamese submarine to be base at one base only?! Wow, putting all your precious egg on one basket....


*Official *and *publicized *base.

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## Viet

Though no confirmation yet, Đà Nẵng will greet Donald Trump to APEC 2017 summit in November this year. Welcome to Vietnam!

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## Zarvan

*Vietnam Receives Sixth Russian-built Diesel-electric Submarine
*




Vietnam Receives Sixth Russian-built Diesel-electric Submarine
- A +
Vietnam has received the last Varshavyanka-class diesel-electric submarine from Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport under 2009 contract.

The contract for the construction of a batch of six Project 636.1 submarines was worth about $2 billion.

The submarine was transported from the Admiralty Wharves Shipyard in St. Petersburg in northwest Russia to Cam Ranh in central Vietnam with the use of the Netherlands’ heavy load carrier Rolldock Star, TASS reported. The ship will be unloaded and the submarine will be floated out within the next three days after all administrative procedures are completed and customs documentation is formalized. Today, the Vietnamese Navy operates the first four Project 636.1 submarines, in particular, the Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh, Hai Phong and Da Nang. The submarines delivered to Vietnam have all organic systems and are armed with the Club-S missile system with a range of 300 kilometers (186 miles). At the same time, Russia is building the second two Gepard-3.9-class missile frigates for the Vietnamese Navy.


http://www.defenseworld.net/news/18..._built_Diesel_electric_Submarine#.WIitTBt95EY

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> I remember of a chat with a chinese poster here some time ago. he suggested Vietnam had no other option but surrendered all of holdings in the SC Sea to China, considering his nation´s military power. as a sign of generosity, he said China would give Vietnam money to compensate for the loss of buildings and constructions Vietnam has undertaken on her islands. do you have any idea what can be done to stop his big mouth? I think Moscow knows what Vietnam wants: security and prosperity. everything else is secondary, including a fake friendship with a certain communist neighbour. a good deal is Giving a naval base to Russia if Moscow provides security guarantee to Vietnam.
> 
> in the meanwhile, although many of Vietnam military assets are outdated, but they still will ask any aggressor to pay a price. unless some hooligans claim being invincible. we will see.



They really need to stop leaning back when firing an AK. Their posture is so amateurish like that.


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## Viet

*Exxon-Vietnam gas deal to test Tillerson’s diplomacy*
 The multi-billion dollar joint energy project comes amid past Chinese threats and tough Trump administration talk on the South China Sea 
By Helen Clark January 23, 2017 11:44 AM (UTC+8) 






_Former ExxonMobil executive Rex Tillerson testifies during his confirmation hearing for Secretary of State before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in Washington, DC, January 11, 2017. Photo: AFP / Saul Loeb_


US energy giant Exxon Mobil and state-owned PetroVietnam agreed this month to develop Vietnam’s largest natural gas-fired power generation project, a US$10 billion joint venture known as ‘Blue Whale’ (Ca Voi Xanh). The deal, signed while outgoing US Secretary of State John Kerry was on his last official visit to Vietnam, threatens to create new ripples in the contested South China Sea under the new Donald Trump administration.

The project is scheduled to come online in 2023 and will draw on a natural gas field situated 88 kilometers from Vietnam’s central Quang Nam province in the South China Sea. The field is estimated to hold some 150 billion cubic meters of natural gas, three times the amount of Vietnam’s current largest gas project, a joint venture with Russia’s Gazprom in the southern Con Son Basin.

Exxon Mobil will construct an 88-kilometer sea-to-shore pipeline, while PetroVietnam’s Exploration Production Corporation (PVEC) subsidiary will build gas treatment and four power plants with a total capacity of 3 gigawatts, according to reports. A planned expansion phase will generate enough gas for another 5,750 megawatts of power and petrochemical production, the reports said. PetroVietnam estimates the project will produce US$20 billion for state coffers over an undefined timeline.




The deal comes against the backdrop of Trump’s decision to scrap the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, a US-initiated trade pact of 12 Pacific Rim countries of which Vietnam stood the most to gain. The tariff-slashing deal, if it had been implemented, projected to boost Vietnam’s gross domestic product (GDP) by 11%, or US$36 billion, and exports by 28% over the decade spanning 2015-2025. Vietnam is a signatory to the China-led Regional Cooperative Economic Partnership, which does not require the same type of economic reforms that TPP would have required.

The ExxonMobil project will have a strong diplomatic defender in US Secretary of State designate Rex Tillerson, Exxon Mobil’s former chairman and chief executive officer. It will also likely open him and the Trump administration to conflict of interest accusations. Two days before Kerry met with Vietnamese leaders, Tillerson threatened China over the South China Sea, saying in a Senate confirmation hearing that the Trump administration would send Beijing a “clear signal” and “block” China’s access to artificial islands it has built in the contested waters.

While within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ), the deepwater field is also in an area China claims on its nine-dash map, which lays wide-ranging claim to 90% of the entire South China Sea. In 2011, China indirectly warned Exxon Mobil soon after the company announced a big gas find at Block 118, contained in the Blue Whale project zone, saying foreign companies should refrain from exploration in the contested area. Other multinational energy companies appeared to buckle under China’s pressure by abandoning their exploration activities with Vietnam.

China has also explored in the same area and is believed to have discovered its first commercially viable store of fuel in the South China Sea. In mid-2014, state-run China National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC) positioned a massive deepwater exploration rig in the contested area, setting off sea skirmishes and sparking anti-China riots in Vietnam that resulted in arson attacks on foreign factories and the exodus of hundreds of fearful Chinese nationals.








Tillerson and CNOOC chairman Wang Yilin met in Beijing on May 14, 2014, where the two executives discussed “further cooperation” between the two firms without giving specific details, according to a Reuters report. After those closed door talks, neither side announced any production plans in the area until this month’s Exxon Mobil-PetroVietnam deal. Exxon Mobil also has exploration rights to blocks that could be contested in adjoining areas.

Vietnam expert Carlyle Thayer wrote in a January 16 background briefing paper on the deal that Tillerson “would have institutional knowledge of Chinese attempts to intimidate Exxon Mobil from investing in Vietnam dating back to 2007-8” and that the businessman-cum-envoy “will not be receptive to Chinese protests at the Exxon Mobil deal with PetroVietnam.” Thayer wrote that Chinese officials had previously privately warned Western oil companies that their interests in China would suffer if they assisted Vietnam’s exploration ambitions.

China has not commented specifically on the multi-billion dollar Blue Whale deal, though mouthpiece media has blasted Tillerson’s Senate confirmation comments on the South China Sea. The China Daily said in a January 13 op-ed that Tillerson’s remarks were “a mish-mash of naivety, shortsightedness, worn-out prejudices and unrealistic political fantasies.” It added: “Should he act on them in the real world, it would be disastrous.”

The Exxon Mobil-PetroVietnam venture was announced while Kerry was in Hanoi and Vietnam Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong was in Beijing meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping, where the two signed a joint communiqué on cooperation and peace. The pro forma agreement is not expected to resolve or even mitigate the South China Sea disputes.

Hanoi and Beijing maintain a wide network of cooperative ties and agreements despite their South China Sea disputes. Whether these agreements, including a joint steering committee to oversee relations, help to restrain bilateral ructions or are useless in the face of serious disputes, such as China’s 2014 incursion into Vietnam’s EEZ, is difficult to say due to the opaque nature of both nominally communist regimes.






_This handout photo taken on June 23, 2014 allegedly shows a Chinese boat (L) supposedly ramming a Vietnamese vessel (R) in contested waters near China’s deep sea drilling rig in the South China Sea. Photo: AFP / Vietnam Maritime Police_


Bilateral ties cratered after the 2014 anti-Chinese riots and relations were not reset until November 2015, when Xi Jinping visited Hanoi. During Xi’s visit a dozen new bilateral agreements were signed under a comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership where China promised US$157 million worth of investments for hospitals and schools and US$500 million for infrastructure.

The sea disputes have been accentuated and complicated by recent joint exploration ventures Hanoi has entered into with foreign energy concerns. The deals have also added new geostrategic dimensions to the volatile region. For instance, India’s drive to sell Hanoi advanced missiles and other power-projecting weaponry is believed to be motivated in part to protect its ONGC Videsh Limited energy company’s joint exploration ventures with Vietnam in the South China Sea.

China’s threat to Vietnam’s exploration activities in the area, however, is as much about political power as natural resources. U.S. Energy Information Agency (EIA) estimated in 2013 that the South China Sea holds 11 billion barrels of oil and 190 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, including both proven and possible reserves. China’s estimates for the sea are higher, with the state-run China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) projecting 125 billion barrels of oil and 500 trillion cubic feet of gas. China consumed around 1.7 billion barrels of oil in 2015, according to industry estimates.

Like China, Vietnam sorely needs the energy to fuel its fast expanding industrializing economy. The Exxon Mobil deal is believed to be part of a broad Vietnamese central plan to integrate its coastal economy with natural resources in its EEZ, according to academic Thayer’s briefing paper. Those designs for contested maritime areas riled China in the past and will likely do so again if Tillerson backs his tough language with firm action in the South China Sea.

http://www.atimes.com/article/exxon-vietnam-gas-deal-test-tillersons-diplomacy/

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> They really need to stop leaning back when firing an AK. Their posture is so amateurish like that.


from AK to RPG some recoil more or less is unavoidable.


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## rocketfish

Viet said:


> don´t twist my words. I never say something of powerful stuff. actually Vietnam is like a nice guy. nice to everybody, even to China. Look, the communist boss rarely makes overseas visit. in his first term in office, he went to China for a official visit at the end of his 10 year term. this time is different. he went to China in the first year after he was re-elected. yes he goes to China, looking for security and prosperity for Vietnam, for a better understanding, but he returns with nothing. oh yes, a dog getting a bone, like a Chinese poster here said.



Vietnamese communist is corrupted. He deserves more bones. Most Vietnamese don't even like their own corrupted government.



Viet said:


> I learn a bit from Donald Trump. He is right in asking US allies and partners to share the burden. Yes also he is right in saying if one is too nice other people will not only laugh at him but take advantage in raping America.



That's why I'm 10000% Trump supporter since 2007. I'm glad you learn from Mr. Trump. He's a very influential person.


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## Silent Knight

rocketfish said:


> Vietnamese communist is corrupted. He deserves more bones. Most Vietnamese don't even like their own corrupted government.


Isn't that the same thing with every countries?


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## AViet

rocketfish said:


> Vietnamese communist is corrupted. He deserves more bones. Most *Vietnamese don't even like their own corrupted government*.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I'm 10000% Trump supporter since 2007. I'm glad you learn from Mr. Trump. He's a very influential person.



You can say so to any country in the world, if you believe the information on the Internet.

But If an free election, I mean "real free" is organized tomorrow in the US and Vietnam, I believe the percentage of American who vote for a "Vietnam-style" government will far exceed the percentage of Vietnamese who vote for a America-style government, i.e. the Vietnamese far more trust their own government than the American

Do not say that the US ever has a real free and fair election.

And yes I know in the US, a state secretary can receive some $77M and not considered as "corrupt". Not in Vietnam.

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## Viet

rocketfish said:


> Vietnamese communist is corrupted. He deserves more bones. Most Vietnamese don't even like their own corrupted government.
> 
> That's why I'm 10000% Trump supporter since 2007. I'm glad you learn from Mr. Trump. He's a very influential person.


congrats to your first post. actually Vietnam has lots of problems, corruption is just one of them, though it is as severe as foreign aggression. yes the Viet people dislike everything what hinders the own the country to progress. personally I have some hopes. as for Donald Trump, well, he either leads America and the world to a period of peace and prosperity or all of us into the next apocalypse and global holocaust. this incoming new cinema film fits perfect into our time. Kong: Skull Island. played in Vietnam during the war. apocalypse as entertainment.

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## Farhan Bohra

According to Vietnamese source at VTV1 channel, India has finished negotiation to sale Brahmos and Akash SAM systems with ToT ..

I cannot find the actual clip at the moment ..
Vietnam may not be looking at 290km range Brahmos but 600km one. In VTV1 news its about unknown missile with ToT ...

Source: Kunal Biswas from ***.

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## Aqsuperman

rocketfish said:


> Vietnamese communist is corrupted. He deserves more bones. Most Vietnamese don't even like their own corrupted government.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I'm 10000% Trump supporter since 2007. I'm glad you learn from Mr. Trump. He's a very influential person.



His very first appearance and already half the forum ( myself included ) feel another *** + hole has just introduced himself.

Corrupted ? Pfff yeah sure that is the word in Vietnam and itself is a grave obstacle to country, but hey in the US and democracies round the world, the world is "Lobbying" or "Fund-raising" and legalize it, any different ? No, except that after Western officials left their seat, they jump right into the patron company, make top bucks instead of just laying around at home. And lol after all these time, people still use the phrase "Their people hate/dont like their own goverment" as a valid point , like American all fall in love with Trump instantly :v If you walk in any neighborhood of California and scream "I love Trump", you would probably go home in a stretcher. 

And sure, you had been in love with Trump since 2007, i dig that too. I mean who doesnt like a guy with 10 bil USD of total asset, give or take a bit. But hey, you also like the same guy that said "Grap her by the pu**y" plus numerous controversy comments on other countries and people. And with all the investigation on "Russian hackers sabotaged the election" and Trump reaction to it, it more about "hilarious" than "influential". But of course, with enough money, anybody can be "influential", even the title of Presidency :3

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## Viet

This unique vietnamese martial art Viêt Võ Dao or Vovinam has a story. Born during Vietnam´s darkest hours in the 1930s, the martial art, either armed by primitive weapons or even weaponless, was aimed to fight overwhelming external enemy. the dress´s blue color symbolizes hope.

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> This unique vietnamese martial art Viêt Võ Dao or Vovinam has a story. Born during Vietnam´s darkest hours in the 1930s, the martial art, either armed by primitive weapons or even weaponless, was aimed to fight overwhelming external enemy. the dress´s blue color symbolizes hope.


My take on martial arts is that it is very old-school and not beneficial to a typical small-built Vietnamese. Nowadays in vietnam, I'm starting to see Vietnamese young men going to the gym to pump iron and I think that's the right way to go. There are so many skinny viet guys who are barely 100 pounds and after a few years of weight lifting they reach 160-170 pounds of pure muscle. Too bad, gym is still a luxury in Vietnam otherwise there will be more buff viet guys walking around. Where I work there is this muscular white guy and he can bench press 325 pounds. I don't care how skilled your martial arts is, you won't beat a guy who can bench 325 pounds


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## DESERT FIGHTER

hoangsa74 said:


> My take on martial arts is that it is very old-school and not beneficial to a typical small-built Vietnamese. Nowadays in vietnam, I'm starting to see Vietnamese young men going to the gym to pump iron and I think that's the right way to go. There are so many skinny viet guys who are barely 100 pounds and after a few years of weight lifting they reach 160-170 pounds of pure muscle. Too bad, gym is still a luxury in Vietnam otherwise there will be more buff viet guys walking around. Where I work there is this muscular white guy and he can bench press 325 pounds. I don't care how skilled your martial arts is, you won't beat a guy who can bench 325 pounds


Whats the average height in Vietnam?


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## Aqsuperman

Well then i guess a Olympic Gold medalist of Weight Lifting is automatically formidable in a MMA fight or even a normal street fight. Speaking with true knowledge indeed !!!

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> My take on martial arts is that it is very old-school and not beneficial to a typical small-built Vietnamese. Nowadays in vietnam, I'm starting to see Vietnamese young men going to the gym to pump iron and I think that's the right way to go. There are so many skinny viet guys who are barely 100 pounds and after a few years of weight lifting they reach 160-170 pounds of pure muscle. Too bad, gym is still a luxury in Vietnam otherwise there will be more buff viet guys walking around. Where I work there is this muscular white guy and he can bench press 325 pounds. I don't care how skilled your martial arts is, you won't beat a guy who can bench 325 pounds


You are a troller but there is a bit in the truth. The viet people are generally light weight from nature. No wonder by their daily diet. But in case you haven't noticed if they live overseas adopting western way of life then thing is different. They are usually tall and have more kilos on the body. So more milk more meat is the way to go. Martial arts like Judo are not there to lift a heavy guy for fun but throw him into a dirty ground. Vovinam is not for a weak guy like you because it is lethal. Interesting, this Vietnamese fighting arts are very popular even outside Vietnam. I read there are over Vovinam schools over 50 countries spreading from Asia to Australia to Africa to America.

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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> My take on martial arts is that it is very old-school and not beneficial to a typical small-built Vietnamese. Nowadays in vietnam, I'm starting to see Vietnamese young men going to the gym to pump iron and I think that's the right way to go. There are so many skinny viet guys who are barely 100 pounds and after a few years of weight lifting they reach 160-170 pounds of pure muscle. Too bad, gym is still a luxury in Vietnam otherwise there will be more buff viet guys walking around. Where I work there is this muscular white guy and he can bench press 325 pounds. I don't care how skilled your martial arts is, you won't beat a guy who can bench 325 pounds



You say that because you don't have a clue about martial arts. Precisely because many vietnamese are skinny and small built. martial arts are of great benefit to them. Lots of small, skinny martial artists beat the crap out of large guys and can only do so because of their martial arts skill. Martial arts are not about brute force, but skill and technique, have you ever heard of how Aikido and Judo use the opponent's force to beat them up? Martial arts develops a type of inner strength that you know nothing about, like punching and knocking out a guy with the fist only 1 inch away from the opponent. Learn something about Khi Kong (Vietnamese name of Qi Gong or Chi Gong) before talking about these things.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You say that because you don't have a clue about martial arts. Precisely because many vietnamese are skinny and small built. martial arts are of great benefit to them. Lots of small, skinny martial artists beat the crap out of large guys and can only do so because of their martial arts skill. Martial arts are not about brute force, but skill and technique, have you ever heard of how Aikido and Judo use the opponent's force to beat them up? Martial arts develops a type of inner strength that you know nothing about, like punching and knocking out a guy with the fist only 1 inch away from the opponent. Learn something about Khi Kong (Vietnamese name of Qi Gong or Chi Gong) before talking about these things.
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding. This guy competes with Aviet for the title of who is best to make a fool of themselves.


Well said. Martial arts has never been brute force, least Viêt Võ Dao, which was especially designed for the small stature of the Vietnamese.

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## Silent Knight

Happy Lunar new year, friends. 

Also, ignore that certain butthurt troll. A new video has arrived.

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Happy Lunar new year, friends.
> 
> Also, ignore that certain butthurt troll. A new video has arrived.



Happy New Year to all !!!!!

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> You are a troller but there is a bit in the truth. The viet people are generally light weight from nature. No wonder by their daily diet. *But in case you haven't noticed if they live overseas adopting western way of life then thing is different*. They are usually tall and have more kilos on the body. So more milk more meat is the way to go. Martial arts like Judo are not there to lift a heavy guy for fun but throw him into a dirty ground. Vovinam is not for a weak guy like you because it is lethal. Interesting, this Vietnamese fighting arts are very popular even outside Vietnam. I read there are over Vovinam schools over 50 countries spreading from Asia to Australia to Africa to America.
> 
> View attachment 372607


LOL in bold. Of course but most viet guys live in Vietnam and are skinny 100 pounder. You seriously believe a 100 skinny pound viet dudes with super duper kung fool skill can take down someone who has been pumping iron for years?You are seriously delusional just like how you believe that a PLA general "believe" that your viet military is more scarier than the U.S.A.



Carlosa said:


> You say that because you don't have a clue about martial arts. Precisely because many vietnamese are skinny and small built. martial arts are of great benefit to them. *Lots of small, skinny martial artists beat the crap out of large guys and can only do so because of their martial arts skill*. Martial arts are not about brute force, but skill and technique, have you ever heard of how Aikido and Judo use the opponent's force to beat them up? Martial arts develops a type of inner strength that you know nothing about, like punching and knocking out a guy with the fist only 1 inch away from the opponent. Learn something about Khi Kong (Vietnamese name of Qi Gong or Chi Gong) before talking about these things.


In bold, where is that? Only happens in movies. Martial arts is useless. Ask why there are so many guys going to the gym to pump iron and I'm talking about guys who are not naturally weak 100 pounder like a typical viet guys. I'm talking about guys who are already at least 150 pounds. The only way martial art is useful is a 100 pound viet dude vs 100 pound viet dude with no martial arts then the one with martial arts would gain an advantage, buddy.



Silent Knight said:


> Happy Lunar new year, friends.
> 
> Also, ignore that certain butthurt troll. A new video has arrived.
> butthurt? Too bad u r celebrating chinese new year. Even your viet scholar a few days ago admit on your own news that they can't decipher the origin of your supposed viet new year. Lol even the word "tet" is a chinese derived word. Lol


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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> LOL in bold. Of course but most viet guys live in Vietnam and are skinny 100 pounder. You seriously believe a 100 skinny pound viet dudes with super duper kung fool skill can take down someone who has been pumping iron for years?You are seriously delusional just like how you believe that a PLA general "believe" that your viet military is more scarier than the U.S.A.
> 
> 
> In bold, where is that? Only happens in movies. Martial arts is useless. Ask why there are so many guys going to the gym to pump iron and I'm talking about guys who are not naturally weak 100 pounder like a typical viet guys. I'm talking about guys who are already at least 150 pounds. The only way martial art is useful is a 100 pound viet dude vs 100 pound viet dude with no martial arts then the one with martial arts would gain an advantage, buddy.


Ok I gave up you won. The more hamburger you eat the more you are unbeatable. But attention: the more iron you pump into yourself the less brain you have in our head. If I was you, I would think carefully before making any decision. Or you can consult your doc.

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## Aqsuperman

Well, its Tet now guy, a sore loser guy can run his mouth all he want. Remember the golden rule: "The retards always drag us down to his level of intelligence and overcame us with experience". The only fight he has in his entire life is with his mom. She should has bring him to a MMA cage fight and see how REAL martial arts work, but he prefer "pumping iron" so that he can look cool when several round kicks send him to the ground, no worries there guys. Pff, 100 pound vs 100 pound, lol i gotta post this on several MMA forums and see how they response to this :v

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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> In bold, where is that? Only happens in movies. Martial arts is useless. Ask why there are so many guys going to the gym to pump iron and I'm talking about guys who are not naturally weak 100 pounder like a typical viet guys. I'm talking about guys who are already at least 150 pounds. The only way martial art is useful is a 100 pound viet dude vs 100 pound viet dude with no martial arts then the one with martial arts would gain an advantage, buddy.



As usual with you, the more you talk, the more you show your ignorance. Yeah dude, go to pump some iron and leave us alone.

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## Viet

*Statement by the Prime Minister of Canada on Vietnamese New Year*

OTTAWA, Jan. 28, 2017 /CNW/ - The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, issued the following statement today on the Vietnamese New Year:

"In the days ahead, the Vietnamese community in Canada and around the world will mark Tết Nguyên Đán, the Lunar New Year, and welcome the arrival of the year of the Rooster, which in 2017 is also known as the year of the Fire Rooster.

"As family and friends get together and share special meals, Tết Nguyên Đán is an occasion to reflect on the past year and celebrate the arrival of spring.

"This year, as we celebrate our country's 150th anniversary, let us take the opportunity to honour the many cultures, traditions, and beliefs that make Canada such a wonderful place to live. Vietnamese Canadians have made enormous contributions to Canada and have helped make it the strong and diverse place it is today.

"On behalf of our family, Sophie and I wish all those marking this occasion a very happy New Year.

"Chúc mừng năm mới."


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## rocketfish

Silent Knight said:


> Isn't that the same thing with every countries?



No, you have one party. Other countries got 2 to 4 different parties.



Aqsuperman said:


> His very first appearance and already half the forum ( myself included ) feel another *** + hole has just introduced himself.
> 
> Corrupted ? Pfff yeah sure that is the word in Vietnam and itself is a grave obstacle to country, but hey in the US and democracies round the world, the world is "Lobbying" or "Fund-raising" and legalize it, any different ? No, except that after Western officials left their seat, they jump right into the patron company, make top bucks instead of just laying around at home. And lol after all these time, people still use the phrase "Their people hate/dont like their own goverment" as a valid point , like American all fall in love with Trump instantly :v If you walk in any neighborhood of California and scream "I love Trump", you would probably go home in a stretcher.
> 
> And sure, you had been in love with Trump since 2007, i dig that too. I mean who doesnt like a guy with 10 bil USD of total asset, give or take a bit. But hey, you also like the same guy that said "Grap her by the pu**y" plus numerous controversy comments on other countries and people. And with all the investigation on "Russian hackers sabotaged the election" and Trump reaction to it, it more about "hilarious" than "influential". But of course, with enough money, anybody can be "influential", even the title of Presidency :3



Incorrect.



AViet said:


> You can say so to any country in the world, if you believe the information on the Internet.
> 
> But If an free election, I mean "real free" is organized tomorrow in the US and Vietnam, I believe the percentage of American who vote for a "Vietnam-style" government will far exceed the percentage of Vietnamese who vote for a America-style government, i.e. the Vietnamese far more trust their own government than the American
> 
> Do not say that the US ever has a real free and fair election.
> 
> And yes I know in the US, a state secretary can receive some $77M and not considered as "corrupt". Not in Vietnam.



You never live in the USA.



Viet said:


> congrats to your first post. actually Vietnam has lots of problems, corruption is just one of them, though it is as severe as foreign aggression. yes the Viet people dislike everything what hinders the own the country to progress. personally I have some hopes. as for Donald Trump, well, he either leads America and the world to a period of peace and prosperity or all of us into the next apocalypse and global holocaust. this incoming new cinema film fits perfect into our time. Kong: Skull Island. played in Vietnam during the war. apocalypse as entertainment.



Thank you.



Aqsuperman said:


> His very first appearance and already half the forum ( myself included ) feel another *** + hole has just introduced himself.
> 
> Corrupted ? Pfff yeah sure that is the word in Vietnam and itself is a grave obstacle to country, but hey in the US and democracies round the world, the world is "Lobbying" or "Fund-raising" and legalize it, any different ? No, except that after Western officials left their seat, they jump right into the patron company, make top bucks instead of just laying around at home. And lol after all these time, people still use the phrase "Their people hate/dont like their own goverment" as a valid point , like American all fall in love with Trump instantly :v If you walk in any neighborhood of California and scream "I love Trump", you would probably go home in a stretcher.
> 
> And sure, you had been in love with Trump since 2007, i dig that too. I mean who doesnt like a guy with 10 bil USD of total asset, give or take a bit. But hey, you also like the same guy that said "Grap her by the pu**y" plus numerous controversy comments on other countries and people. And with all the investigation on "Russian hackers sabotaged the election" and Trump reaction to it, it more about "hilarious" than "influential". But of course, with enough money, anybody can be "influential", even the title of Presidency :3



look up infowars



Carlosa said:


> As usual with you, the more you talk, the more you show your ignorance. Yeah dude, go to pump some iron and leave us alone.



I'm new hear and already sense the amount of ignorance in the air.



Viet said:


> *Statement by the Prime Minister of Canada on Vietnamese New Year*
> 
> OTTAWA, Jan. 28, 2017 /CNW/ - The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, issued the following statement today on the Vietnamese New Year:
> 
> "In the days ahead, the Vietnamese community in Canada and around the world will mark Tết Nguyên Đán, the Lunar New Year, and welcome the arrival of the year of the Rooster, which in 2017 is also known as the year of the Fire Rooster.
> 
> "As family and friends get together and share special meals, Tết Nguyên Đán is an occasion to reflect on the past year and celebrate the arrival of spring.
> 
> "This year, as we celebrate our country's 150th anniversary, let us take the opportunity to honour the many cultures, traditions, and beliefs that make Canada such a wonderful place to live. Vietnamese Canadians have made enormous contributions to Canada and have helped make it the strong and diverse place it is today.
> 
> "On behalf of our family, Sophie and I wish all those marking this occasion a very happy New Year.
> 
> "Chúc mừng năm mới."



Vietnamese community in Canada is very strong. In Canada, we have a Vietnamese Senator. He always carry the South Vietnamese Yellow-3 red stripes flag.



Viet said:


> This unique vietnamese martial art Viêt Võ Dao or Vovinam has a story. Born during Vietnam´s darkest hours in the 1930s, the martial art, either armed by primitive weapons or even weaponless, was aimed to fight overwhelming external enemy. the dress´s blue color symbolizes hope.



Very true.


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## rocketfish

Viet said:


> This unique vietnamese martial art Viêt Võ Dao or Vovinam has a story. Born during Vietnam´s darkest hours in the 1930s, the martial art, either armed by primitive weapons or even weaponless, was aimed to fight overwhelming external enemy. the dress´s blue color symbolizes hope.



Brazilian Capoeira has a similar story and history on how it was formed.



hoangsa74 said:


> My take on martial arts is that it is very old-school and not beneficial to a typical small-built Vietnamese. Nowadays in vietnam, I'm starting to see Vietnamese young men going to the gym to pump iron and I think that's the right way to go. There are so many skinny viet guys who are barely 100 pounds and after a few years of weight lifting they reach 160-170 pounds of pure muscle. Too bad, gym is still a luxury in Vietnam otherwise there will be more buff viet guys walking around. Where I work there is this muscular white guy and he can bench press 325 pounds. I don't care how skilled your martial arts is, you won't beat a guy who can bench 325 pounds



I benched press 315 lbs x 1 rep but I'm skinny. I'm 150 lbs. Technically I'm pretty lean for my weight. But I wouldn't say being super muscular is good if the guy isn't witty and fast. Cung Le was a good fighter. I know a lot of Vietnamese guys at the gym who are stronger than most white guys.

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## Viet

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Whats the average height in Vietnam?


I think we are off-topic. Regardless, every girl knows it, not the height of a guy is important but the length. Size matters

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## Viet

A picture with symbolism. Vietnam army general staff is briefed on Chinese military installations on Hainan island, especially the recent development around the base of Chinese nuclear submarines.

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## Viet

the Russians are not only smart but also good businesspeople. I read they are offering Vietnam club-k container stored antiship missiles for Vietnam made 770 ton, roro 5612 class multi-purpose container vessel.


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## Viet

rocketfish said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Vietnamese community in Canada is very strong. In Canada, we have a Vietnamese Senator. He always carry the South Vietnamese Yellow-3 red stripes flag.
> 
> Very true.


are you of Vietnamese descent?

Canada is pretty much alike the United States and Australia. all three have something in common for our Viet kieu to thrive: big landmass, sizeable Vietnamese population, little corruption, law and order, last but not least a climate of *laissez*-*faire. *there are sizeable Vietnamese population in Europe too, but things are much complicated here, not to mention racism and resentment of domestic population.

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## gambit

rocketfish said:


> I benched press 315 lbs x 1 rep but I'm skinny. I'm 150 lbs. Technically I'm pretty lean for my weight. But I wouldn't say being super muscular is good if the guy isn't witty and fast. Cung Le was a good fighter. I know a lot of Vietnamese guys at the gym who are stronger than most white guys.


When I was active duty, once in a while, I used to workout with a flight surgeon. He specialized in sports medicines and also applied to become a pilot. In military aviation, an MD/pilot is uncommon. Does happens, but rare. Being an MD and caring for the pilots and aircrew are busy enough, but to be a rated pilot as well takes an exceptional person.

Anyway...According to his thesis, if you can press/squat your own weight, even if just one rep, the odds of you having any kind of musculoskeletal system problems dramatically decreases doing ordinary things in your life. Things like pick up the grocery, carry the baby, change a flat tire, mow the lawn, etc. We are not talking about construction work, being in the infantry, working the ship docks, etc.

If you can press/squat your body weight plus 10%, here is where you should be concerned with overall body condition such as shape, muscle development, fat index, nutrition, etc. Plus 10% is where martial art techniques begins to yield and increase their destructive potential. Plus 20% is where you begins to enter competitive conditioning, if you wanted to go there. Manny Pacquiao supposedly can press 315 lbs once, but supposedly he also found out that such strength did not add any more power to his punches, so he dropped as much as 100 lbs in regular weight training, and let his speed do the damages.

So unless a martial artist intends to enter professional competition, plus 10-15% is more than adequate of strength conditioning to be healthy in one's musculoskeletal system. If you have high body fat content, smoke, or drink to excess, those are different issues. Being able to press/squat your weight -- plus some -- is just about that musculoskeletal system.

Since then, I have taken his advice and for the past twenty-something yrs, all the things I have done, motorcycles, amateur SCCA racing, scuba, skydived, and am a 2nd deg TKD, I have only sprains and a couple cracked ribs. I can still do a full split, although at 54 yrs old, I will need warm up time. When Pops died, what I learned from the doctors is that most seniors who died from broken hip accidents, they did not felled and broke their hips. Rather, it is the opposite. Their hip joints failed, then they felled. The trauma is so great that many of these old bodies cannot recover and the old person entered the hospital, and he/she died there.

There is no way to foretell how your own musculoskeletal system will perform as you ages, but strength training, even if just using your body weight, seems to delay the aging effects considerably.

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## Carlosa

*With the brigade commanding Vietnam’s most advanced warships *

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 01/29/2017 14:02 GMT + 7





*Brigade No.162, under the supervision of Naval Region 4, is the Vietnam People's Navy’s biggest water-surface combat unit, with multiple state-of-the-art warships in its fleet.*

The young soldiers of Brigade 162 are charged with the command of a squadron of advanced warships, including two Gepard-class 3.9 frigates, the first of their kind in Vietnam; the missile escort vessels Dinh Tien Hoang and Ly Thai To; Molniya-class fast-attack missile ships; and the Vietnamese-built TT-400TP gunboats. 

The two missile escort vessels are named after two former Vietnamese kings.

_Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper revisited the brigade for a special Tet report, four years after reporting on the newly-received Dinh Tien Hoang missile escort vessel in August 2012.

*Young commanders on modern warships*

At Brigade 162’s headquarters,_ Tuoi Tre_ spoke with Major Pham Anh Tuan, captain of the Ly Thai To missile escort vessel, while several anti-submarine helicopter Ka-28s hovered above his ship.

Tuan explained that the choppers, under the command of Anti-submarine Unit 954, were engaged in a drill with his missile escort ship, while the brigade’s other modern warships including the Dinh Tien Hoang, the fast-attack missile ships, and the gunboats, were also training offshore.

In August 2012, Anh was wearing the Lieutenant badge and was the vice-captain of the Dinh Tien Hoang warship. After four years, he was promoted to Major and assigned to work on the Ly Thai To.

“Over the last four years, our force has been significantly ‘rejuvenated,’ with more and more young soldiers,” Tuan told _Tuoi Tre_.

“More than 50 percent of our troops were born in the 1980s and 1990s, and their mastery of the weapons and equipment has made them way more confident than when we first received these modern warships."





_Pham Anh Tuan (L, 3rd) during a break with his comrades_

Born in 1979, Tuan himself has yet to reach his 40s, quite young for a warship captain.

“The biggest pressure is keeping everything in military order and staying prepared for combat at all times,” he said.

“This may sound easy, but it is a tough task to get work done.”

Tuan explained that compared to other ships, missile escort vessels are more modern, carry more weapons, and transport more crew.

“To date, we are confident that everything is in place and 100 percent of our crew members are ready to accept and complete any mission,” he underlined.

Ly Thai To is one of Brigade 162’s best two ships, having earned recognition in various Vietnam People’s Navy training competitions, including in August 2016 when the vessel won the top prize in the combat ship category.

Looking back on nearly five years of hard work since the modern Ly Thai To ship was delivered to Vietnam from Russia, Tuan said he had never believed that he and his comrades would do so well.

“In the beginning, problems were inevitable. We just were not familiar with modern ships,” Tuan said. “Since then, our young soldiers have mastered how to use the ships and their equipment.”

*The 32-year-old leader*

The brigade’s interesting stories are not limited to the missile escort vessels.

Brigade 162 is Vietnam’s first naval force to receive the Russian-built Molniya-class fast-attack craft.

In June 2014, Vietnam introduced the first homemade Molniya-class warships, presenting them to Brigade 162’s artillery-missile ship.

Thanks to their experience, it was Brigade 162 soldiers who were chosen to train their fellow Brigade 167 members on how to use the homemade warships.

“We started to train the first two batches of Brigade 167 soldiers, including the captain and other officers, on how to use the equipment and weapons on the fast-attack ships in 2012, two years before they officially received the home-built vessels from the Ba Son Shipyard,” recalled Captain Vu Trong Tan.

Tan, 32, is captain of the brigade’s missile-armed fast-attack ship 375, one of the most powerful warships in the Vietnamese navy.

The young captain has led the ship through several training scenarios and drills, with 100 percent of his crew achieving good and excellent grades in each exercise.

Captain Tan was also tasked with conducting an inspection on the acceptance of all weapons armed on the Ba Son-built ships before they were transferred to Brigade 167.

His efforts and ability have won acclamation from Russian experts and the High Command of the Vietnam People's Navy.





_Vu Trong Tan (R) and Vu Khanh Hai_

With such an outstanding captain at the helm, it comes as no surprise that “Ship 375, together with the Ly Thai To, is among the most outstanding vessels in Brigade 162,” confirmed Captain Tong Xuan Quan, the brigade’s commissar.

Ship 375 is also the only vessel under the command of Naval Region 4 to be awarded the third-grade medal for national protection and the “Best Training Unit” title among the Brigade 162 for five years straight. None of these are easily achieved acclaim.

Tan was only 30 when he was transferred to Ship 375 before his promotion to vice-captain in 2014.

“After being transferred to the ship, I would awake every day to the passion and devotion with which my superiors handled their duties. It was a great example for younger comrades like me,” Tan recalled.

“We were inspired by these officials and it caused us to fall in love with our jobs.”






*‘Modern’ personnel*

Brigade 162 is currently the most advanced and biggest water-surface warship brigade under the Vietnamese navy.

However, according to the brigade’s commissar Tong Xuan Quan, “having ‘modern’ personnel is more important than modern weapons.”

The ‘modern personnel,’ by his definition, are servicemen with “good health and knowledge, great professional skills, and foreign language fluency.”

While soldiers in the brigade are constantly on a tight schedule, including training, practicing, and research, self-study is one of the group’s biggest focuses.

“Because the ship itself and its equipment are all modern, officers and soldiers have to keep studying each particular aspect of the ship,” Captain Vu Khanh Hai, 33, said.

Hai said high-ranking officers from the brigade frequently run unexpected checks on soldiers to ensure they are staying constantly vigilant.

“There are days when we are checked twice,” he said.

“You will be asked one random point from a thick set of documents, and you have to give a clear, thorough, immediate answer.”

While a score of 7/10 is normally considered ‘good,' in the army it just means ‘average’ and “you will not be allowed to work with those weapons,” Hai explained.






The captain added that he and his comrades have spent entire days working to expand their knowledge of the ship’s equipment.

The Brigade 167 is poised to receive a new Gepard-class 3.9 frigate, and Hai has already been tapped to serve as its vice-captain upon delivery.

Hai is also known for his creative ideas to help soldiers better control the modern warships. In 2014 and 2015, the captain also led his ship and crew members to achieve ‘excellent grades’ in various live-fire exercises.

Vu Khanh Hai was selected as a standout young member of the Vietnamese navy in 2015.

“I always bear in mind the words of my senior officer, commissar Tong Xuan Quan – modern weapons and vessels are not as important as ‘modern’ personnel,” Hai said.

Hai added he acknowledges the important duty of managing multimillion-dollar warships, especially given Vietnam’s modest economic ability.

“Every soldier must try their hardest and perform their best to fulfill their role,” he said.



gambit said:


> When I was active duty, once in a while, I used to workout with a flight surgeon. He specialized in sports medicines and also applied to become a pilot. In military aviation, an MD/pilot is uncommon. Does happens, but rare. Being an MD and caring for the pilots and aircrew are busy enough, but to be a rated pilot as well takes an exceptional person.
> 
> Anyway...According to his thesis, if you can press/squat your own weight, even if just one rep, the odds of you having any kind of musculoskeletal system problems dramatically decreases doing ordinary things in your life. Things like pick up the grocery, carry the baby, change a flat tire, mow the lawn, etc. We are not talking about construction work, being in the infantry, working the ship docks, etc.
> 
> If you can press/squat your body weight plus 10%, here is where you should be concerned with overall body condition such as shape, muscle development, fat index, nutrition, etc. Plus 10% is where martial art techniques begins to yield and increase their destructive potential. Plus 20% is where you begins to enter competitive conditioning, if you wanted to go there. Manny Pacquiao supposedly can press 315 lbs once, but supposedly he also found out that such strength did not add any more power to his punches, so he dropped as much as 100 lbs in regular weight training, and let his speed do the damages.
> 
> So unless a martial artist intends to enter professional competition, plus 10-15% is more than adequate of strength conditioning to be healthy in one's musculoskeletal system. If you have high body fat content, smoke, or drink to excess, those are different issues. Being able to press/squat your weight -- plus some -- is just about that musculoskeletal system.
> 
> Since then, I have taken his advice and for the past twenty-something yrs, all the things I have done, motorcycles, amateur SCCA racing, scuba, skydived, and am a 2nd deg TKD, I have only sprains and a couple cracked ribs. I can still do a full split, although at 54 yrs old, I will need warm up time. When Pops died, what I learned from the doctors is that most seniors who died from broken hip accidents, they did not felled and broke their hips. Rather, it is the opposite. Their hip joints failed, then they felled. The trauma is so great that many of these old bodies cannot recover and the old person entered the hospital, and he/she died there.
> 
> There is no way to foretell how your own musculoskeletal system will perform as you ages, but strength training, even if just using your body weight, seems to delay the aging effects considerably.



Long time no see man. Happy New Year!!!

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## Viet

Live fire exercise. infantry and tank assault with 152 mm artillery support.

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## Viet

air defence. missile launch.

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## Viet

Never underestimate a women, especially not if she practices Viêt Võ Dao.

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## Carlosa

*Korean troops' killings in Vietnam still unresolved *




Nguyet Thi Thanh, one of the survivors of a Vietnam War massacre committed by South Korean soldiers, speaks at a weekly demonstration by former comfort women in front of the Japanese Embassy in Seoul, during her first visit to Korea last April. / Korea Times photo by Shim Hyun-chul

*'Peace is possible when putting myself in the shoes of an assailant'*

By Choi Ha-young

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2017/01/120_222942.html

Koreans usually see themselves from the point of view of the victims, for example, of wartime sex slavery under Japanese imperialism. So, more than 40 years after the Vietnam War ended, it is difficult to find any feelings of guilt here over Korea's role in that war, even if the nation sent over 300,000 soldiers to Vietnam. There, 16,000 of them died and some still suffer long-term effects from exposure to defoliants.

According to a Vietnamese military report published in the 1980s, South Korean soldiers killed about 5,000 Vietnamese civilians. Some researchers speculate the number could be as high as 9,000.

In September 1964, South Korean soldiers landed in civil war-ravaged Vietnam to support U.S. attacks on communist forces. Then President Park Chung-hee, President Park Geun-hye's father, signed a deal with the U.S. to get long-term loans for economic growth. The troops were dedicated to building humanitarian facilities and providing necessities, but also were involved in battles.

From Dec. 3 to 6, 1966, the 2nd Marine Division of Korea killed about 430 civilians in Binh Hoa, in Vietnam's south. Reportedly, more than half the victims were women and seven were pregnant. Among them were 166 children.

"The sin, enough to reach the sky, will be remembered eternally," a monument erected in the village reads. Across Vietnam, around 80 monuments recall the wartime crime committed by Koreans.

Scholars and journalists investigated the tragedy, and it came to light in 1999 through media reports. But Seoul has never apologized officially.

Former President Kim Dae-jung expressed regret in 1998 during a visit to Hanoi, but no progress has been made since. Only civic groups have continued medical volunteer activities in Vietnam to offer an apology and some activists built a museum to inform the Korean public about the issue.

However, the Korean government recently set back the clock. One of President Park's flagship policies, state-authored textbooks, justified the nation's participation in the war, omitting descriptions of the anti-war movement of the time. And most textbooks don't mention the massacres.

Instead, Korean students would learn of the war's economic benefits. So, many Koreans are unaware that the country' soldiers were "assailants."

*Vietnam's change of view*

Originally, Vietnam demonstrated the rule of "shutting out past affairs and opening to the future." But Ku Su-jeong ― a master's degree and Ph.D. holder from the Vietnam National University, Ho Chi Minh City ― says the phrase doesn't mean the Vietnamese will cover up the memories forever.

"Rather, the Vietnamese government has investigated the atrocities, published booklets and designated the massacre sites as historical remains and organized events to commemorate," said Ku, who exposed the massacres in Korea for the first time as a correspondent of a local media outlet, Hankyoreh.

In December, a documentary titled "The Last Lullaby," which dealt with the Binh Hoa massacre, won an honorable mention from Vietnamese state-run broadcaster VTV.

"Above all, it is shameful not to recognize wrongdoings citing that victims don't demand an apology," the longtime observer told The Korea Times by email.




A local resident looks at a monument inscribed with 74 victims' names, which was erected in a village in Hoi An.
/ Korea Times files
*
Chain of brutality*

Interestingly, she pointed out that looking back on the tragedy will help Korea reflect on its own unresolved historical issues. "There are considerable connections between the massacres that occurred around the Korean War, those during the Vietnam War and those during the May 18 Democratization Movement in Gwangju in 1980," Ku said.

In 1948, two years before the Korean War, government forces killed Jeju residents who protested the nation's division. In 1980, a military government ordered the shootings of civilians in Gwangju, which also involved torture and sexual assaults.

Chae Myung-shin, then commanding officer of the Republic of Korea forces in Vietnam, is the thread that connects the consecutive atrocities, Ku said. "Chae's first post was Jeju Island in 1948 and he conducted sweep-up operations against suspected communists," she said.

"The achievements during the Vietnam War gave a chance for advancement to the soldiers, who formed a strong bond. This is the beginning of Hanahoe which means Group of One the unofficial private group in the military."

Two leading members of Hanahoe ― former presidents Chun Doo-hwan and his right-hand man Roh Tae-woo ― approved atrocities against the Gwangju Democratization Movement to strengthen their grip on power.

There were similarities in the murders across the massacres: cutting off females' breasts after rape, killing children and senior citizens and incinerating all after the brutalities.

"Korea has a long history of ideological conflicts," Ku said. "The experiences on Jeju and massacres during the Korean War would be a background of the orchestrated atrocities under stern anti-communism education."

Additionally, she said the soldiers' panic, caused by an unfamiliar environment and the language barrier, would be a further reason for the cruelty.

*How to apologize*

Ku calls for an unlimited apology to Vietnamese victims first and also recognition of what happened, fact finding, an official apology, legal compensation, punishment of offenders, documentation in textbooks and the erection of memorials.

"This is what Korean civil society has urged of Japan," she said. "If Korea treads in Japan's steps like the so-called Reconciliation and Healing Foundation, this would be a secondary victimization. Above all, the most important thing is a sincere apology and self-reflection."

Recently, Ku led a group trip to the massacre sites in Vietnam, on the 50th anniversary of the Binh Hoa massacre. The participants paid their respects at the memorial and met the survivors. Among the participants were 30 conscientious objectors, who have rejected mandatory military service because of their belief in peace.

The phrase "Peace is possible when putting myself in the shoes of an assailant" has inspired Ku and her longtime movement to build peace between Vietnam and Korea. Now she is preparing the establishment of the Korean-Vietnamese Peace Foundation, based in Seoul, to push for a public awareness campaign on the issue. Along with the preparation, she has to deal with a lawsuit filed by 831 Korean veterans who deny all allegations about all massacres.


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## TenLua

rocketfish said:


> No, you have one party. Other countries got 2 to 4 different parties.
> 
> 
> 
> Incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> You never live in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> look up infowars
> 
> 
> 
> I'm new hear and already sense the amount of ignorance in the air.
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese community in Canada is very strong. In Canada, we have a Vietnamese Senator. He always carry the South Vietnamese Yellow-3 red stripes flag.
> 
> 
> 
> Very true.



infowars? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA so you get your news from a crackpot and you come on here all cocky and arrogant like you're the keeper of forbidden knowledge? GTFO.


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## Viet

why should the Koreans say sorry to Vietnam if they can use past war crimes of the Japanese against Korea as propaganda tool? a political stick, pressing Japan today for money and other incentives, in that context, they are very similar to the Chinese, who use Japanese past war crimes not only propaganda tool against Japan but as excuse for everything they do in East and South China sea. anyway, a Japanese newspaper recently reveals leaked China´s top 5 enemy list:

1- the United States
2- North Korea
3- Japan
4- Vietnam
5- India

North Korea is the surprise, while the other 4 are not. can´t tell if true or not. or probably just a Japanese trick but I won´t wonder the Chinese drunken by a combination of nationalism, hatred, megalomania and a feeling "the time has come" one day will start the war by launching a pre-emptive strike on Hawaii.

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## Viet

Vietnam joins the club of nations that send peacekeeping soldiers abroad. Starting with a few soldiers that are capable of technical or engineering. Usually it is poor and developing nations that send their people to peacekeeping missions because they earn money, receiving dollars from the UN organization. it is not what Vietnam wants. Anyway there is a certain pressure on Vietnam to contribute something positive for the world

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## Viet

People may laugh at Donald Trump but not at this man, probably the second most powerful man in the White House: Steve Bannon. A close ally of Trump. Formally acting as White House chief strategist, but also he is a permanent member of US national security council, a small circle that makes decisions between peace and war. A far right winger. a Neocon representative. because of his radical thoughts on many sensitive topics he is seen a very dangerous man in the inner circle of the world's most powerful country. an extremely worrisome sign for some. For the Islam world and many others. But what has to do with Vietnam?

He is much interested of war history, especially epic battles. The war between Sparta and Athens, or the 57 day and night long decisive battle of Dien bien phu, led by Vo Nguyen Giap. The former chief commander of Vietnamese armed forces was a journalist before joining the army like Bannon. “Giap’s tenacity and ruthlessness became his trademarks as he fought two of the world’s most technologically advanced militaries,” Bannon wrote. He means America and France. We can add China to the list of losers. There are more but we let at three.


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## rocketfish

TenLua said:


> infowars? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA so you get your news from a crackpot and you come on here all cocky and arrogant like you're the keeper of forbidden knowledge? GTFO.



you're a waste of time.



Viet said:


> are you of Vietnamese descent?
> 
> Canada is pretty much alike the United States and Australia. all three have something in common for our Viet kieu to thrive: big landmass, sizeable Vietnamese population, little corruption, law and order, last but not least a climate of *laissez*-*faire. *there are sizeable Vietnamese population in Europe too, but things are much complicated here, not to mention racism and resentment of domestic population.


yes


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam and the South China Sea’s roiled waters*
Shining a spotlight on Vietnam’s militarisation in the Spratlys

CARLYLE A THAYER

https://www.policyforum.net/vietnam-south-china-seas-roiled-waters/

INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, NATIONAL SECURITY, SOUTH CHINA SEA | ASIA, EAST ASIA, SOUTHEAST ASIA, THE WORLD

30 JANUARY 2017

*Vietnam’s military activities in the South China Sea, while not on the same scale as China’s, pre-date them considerably and are squarely aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region, Carlyle A Thayer writes.*


On 11 January US Secretary of State-designate Rex Tillerson sparked a media storm in China during his confirmation hearing when he responded to a question about whether he would he support a more aggressive posture toward China. Tillerson replied, “We’re going to have to send China a clear signal that, first, the island-building stops and, second, your access to those islands also is not going to be allowed.” Tillerson also called on US allies in the region “to show back up.”

China’s _Global Times _shot back, “Tillerson had better bone up on nuclear power strategies if he wants to force a big nuclear power to withdraw from its own territories… If Trump’s diplomatic team shapes future Sino-US ties as it is doing now, the two sides had better prepare for a military clash.” Former Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating characterised Tillerson’s remarks as “simply ludicrous” and a “threat to involve Australia in war.”

For the past two and a half years China has embarked on a master plan to back up its claims to “indisputable sovereignty” in the South China Sea by building and fortifying seven rocks and low-tide elevations in the Spratlys. China constructed three-kilometre (km) long airfields on three features and then erected two-dozen reinforced hangars adjacent to these airfields capable of housing jet fighters, bombers, electronic warfare aircraft and aerial refuelling tankers. In the most recent development, China constructed point defences on all seven of its features, including anti-aircraft guns and missile systems.

Chinese militarisation of the Spratly Islands has received widespread attention by the world’s media, regional security specialists and academic commentators. Much less attention has been paid to Vietnam’s efforts to consolidate its control over the 21 features that it occupies.

The current government in Hanoi, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, was officially formed in 1976 after the political reunification of Vietnam. Prior to the fall of Saigon in April 1975, Vietnamese Special Forces took control of the features in the Spratlys, then occupied by the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam). These features have been occupied by naval infantry and a small civilian community ever since. In 1992, Vietnam installed satellite relay receivers to bring colour television to the Spratlys. In 1994, Vietnam constructed a lighthouse on West London Reef and gradually improved facilities on all its features.

Of the 21 features Vietnam occupies in the Spratlys, nine are rocks above water at high tide, and 12 are low-tide elevations on which Vietnam has built structures. Vietnam claims that it maintains 33 garrisons in the Spratlys, with some features hosting more than one garrison.

The Pentagon claims that Vietnam maintains 48 outposts in the Spratlys; this figure likely includes 15 platforms – or what Vietnam terms “technical support service structures” – in Vanguard Bank. Vietnam does not consider Vanguard Bank part of the Spratlys. The number of military personnel on Vietnam’s 21 features is not known with certainty, and estimates range from several hundred to 1,000.

In 2007, Vietnam drew up a Maritime Strategy to 2020 designed to integrate its coastal economy with the natural resources in its 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone, including fisheries and oil and gas reserves. Between 2009 and 2015, according to the US Department of Defense, Vietnam installed communications and radar equipment on 15 features and made point-defence improvements on 18.

Between 2010 and 2012, Vietnam built administrative buildings, five multi-level military structures and a lighthouse on West London Reef. Further, between 2011 and 2015, Vietnam built helipads on six outposts.

Between August 2011 and February 2015, Vietnam made significant improvements to the infrastructure on Sandy Cay by expanding the beach by 2.1 hectares (ha), reinforcing the seawalls, building piers, a harbour, and a large complex hosting a helipad, a surveillance facility, and defensive structures (trenches, protective storage, bunkers and emplacements for two 20-millimetre artillery guns).

Between 2014 and 2015, Vietnam constructed a three-story pillbox, two docks, and buildings with solar panels, communications antenna, and satellite dishes on Cornwallis South Reef. In late 2014 and early 2015, Vietnam dredged two deep channels on the south of Cornwallis South Reef to allow access to the lagoon by larger vessels that could not navigate the smaller pre-existing natural channel. Vietnam also built up small artificial islands along the new channels and began building structures. By August 2015 Vietnam had added approximately 1.6 ha of sand to the southeastern and southwestern sides of Cornwallis South and began constructing several buildings. In December 2015, Typhoon Melor washed away 0.7 ha of new land. Vietnam promptly set about repairing the damage on the southwest.

On 7 May 2015, the Center for Strategic and International Studies’ (CSIS) Asian Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) reported that satellite imagery confirmed that Vietnam had added approximately 65,000 square metres [26,304 ha] of land to West Reef. A week later, Vietnam’s then Minister of National Defence, General Phung Quang Thanh, confirmed that Vietnam had reinforced embankments on some of its Spratly features to prevent erosion by wind and water. General Thanh noted that Vietnam also built small houses that can “accommodate a few people” and that “the scope and characteristic of our work is purely civilian.”

On 14 May 2015, Vietnam’s Ambassador to the Philippines, Truong Trieu Duong, responded to media queries about the AMTI in an email writing: “Activities conducted by Vietnam… are wholly aimed at improving the old physical facilities in order to serve the minimum daily needs of the people living in islands which are under the jurisdiction of Vietnam in the Spratlys… In fact, Vietnam has several times embellished [sic] some of the islands which are under its jurisdiction, but in a very small scale, mostly constructing ridges against shoreline erosion; building a dock and wharf; (and providing) logistics for fishing services. Our construction and embellishment do not change the status quo.”

A year later, on 17 May 2016, CSIS’ AMTI reported that it had examined all 21 islets and reefs occupied by Vietnam in the Spratlys and “found evidence of reclamation at 10 of them. The images… suggest Vietnam has created just over 120 acres [48.6 hectares] of new land in the South China Sea, mostly at Spratly Island, Southwest Cay, Sin Cowe Island, and West Reef. The majority of this work has occurred in the last two years. By comparison, China has created almost 3,000 acres [1214 ha] of new land at the seven features it occupies in the Spratly Islands. Vietnam’s work has not only been much smaller, but far less environmentally destructive, as it has not involved large-scale dredging of the reefs on which Hanoi’s outposts sit. It has also mostly (but not always) involved expanding pre-existing islets rather than creating new land at submerged features.”

Three major developments in 2016 deserve highlighting.

First, on 9 August it was reported that “in recent months” Vietnam had deployed Extended Range Artillery (EXTRA) mobile rocket launchers on five of its features in the Spratly Islands. The EXTRA system has a range of 150 km and could be used to target China’s airfields. Vietnamese spokespersons denied Vietnam had placed launchers and rockets in the Spratlys, “but reserved the right to take any such measures.”

Second, on 15 November, satellite imagery confirmed that Vietnam was extending its runway on Spratly Island (Truong Sa) from 760 metres (m) to 1.2 km and was building two large hangars. The new airfield extension would enable Vietnam to deploy PZL M28B maritime patrol and CASA C-295 transport aircraft.

Third, on 30 November, satellite imagery also confirmed that Vietnam had commenced dredging sand on Ladd Reef to open a new channel to provide access for fishing boats and supply vessels.

In recent years, China has defended its construction of artificial islands on the grounds that it is catching up and doing what other claimant states have done. Chinese activities, however, have dwarfed and proceeded further down the spectrum to full militarisation than any of the other claimant states.

This review of Vietnamese activities in the Spratlys demonstrates that Vietnam’s occupation of features in the Spratlys predates China’s recent construction activities by nearly four decades. Vietnam militarised its islands, to the extent that naval infantry constitutes militarisation, at the lower end of the spectrum, during the Cold War and long before the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) was adopted.

The DOC calls on all parties, including China, “to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features…”

Since 2002, Vietnam has constructed minor defensive fortifications (point defence systems and multi-story military structures), helipads, and installed military communications equipment and radar.

The major exceptions are Vietnam’s extension of the runway on Spratly Island to support maritime patrol aircraft and Vietnam’s reported placement of EXTRA launchers (but not rockets) on five features in the Spratlys. This constitutes a significant step up in militarisation but does not replicate the scale of China’s activities.

The deployment of the EXTRA launchers must be viewed as Vietnam’s response to China’s construction of forward operating posts hosting runways and hangars, capable of taking virtually all military aircraft in China’s inventory, and point defence systems hosting anti-aircraft guns and missiles.

All other Vietnamese construction appears to be civilian orientated, such as reinforcing seawalls, and building piers, wharfs and enlarging navigation channels. Vietnam’s land extension activities total 4 per cent of China’s total “land reclamation.”

Vietnam’s efforts at defence self-help go hand-in-hand with political and diplomatic efforts to seek a peaceful resolution of territorial disputes and keep the South China Sea stable. For example, Vietnam responded to the most recent US Freedom of Navigation Operational Patrol by the _USS Decatur_ in October 2016, by declaring that “Viet Nam respects other countries to exercise their rights in the East Sea as provided for by the UNCLOS, including the rights to freedom of navigation and overflight. Maritime claims and related actions of states must conform with international law, including the UNCLOS.”

Most recently, Nguyen Phu Trong, the Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party, visited Beijing from 12 to 15 January where he held discussions, inter alia, on the South China Sea with his counterpart, Xi Jinping. According to the joint communiqué, “Both sides agreed to continue to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (DOC) [South China Sea], work towards the early formation of a Code of Conduct of Parties in the East Sea (COC) on the basis of consensus consultation, effectively controlling disputes at sea and avoiding actions that would further complicate or expanding disputes, while maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea.”

In sum, Vietnam’s policy towards the South China Sea’s roiled waters is to engage in a robust program of defence self-help at home (Vietnam has just taken delivery of the sixth and final Kilo-class submarine), while engaging both China and the United States (as well as other major powers – Russia, India and Japan) to maintain the balance of power in the South China Sea.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> People may laugh at Donald Trump but not at this man, probably the second most powerful man in the White House: Steve Bannon. A close ally of Trump. Formally acting as White House chief strategist, but also he is a permanent member of US national security council, a small circle that makes decisions between peace and war. A far right winger. a *Neocon representative*. because of his radical thoughts on many sensitive topics he is seen a very dangerous man in the inner circle of the world's most powerful country. an extremely worrisome sign for some. For the Islam world and many others. But what has to do with Vietnam?
> 
> He is much interested of war history, especially epic battles. The war between Sparta and Athens, or the 57 day and night long decisive battle of Dien bien phu, led by Vo Nguyen Giap. The former chief commander of Vietnamese armed forces was a journalist before joining the army like Bannon. “Giap’s tenacity and ruthlessness became his trademarks as he fought two of the world’s most technologically advanced militaries,” Bannon wrote. He means America and France. We can add China to the list of losers. There are more but we let at three.



Where did you get that Steve Bannon is a neocon representative? Its the other way around, he opposes the neocons and visa versa.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Where did you get that Steve Bannon is a neocon representative? Its the other way around, he opposes the neocons and visa versa.


I may be wrong. but Steve Bannon is a militarist. he sees it legitimate in advancing political goals by military means. in this context he is much alike of classical neocon Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I may be wrong. but Steve Bannon is a militarist. he sees it legitimate in advancing political goals by military means. in this context he is much alike of classical neocon Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.



Neocons follow a particular type of policies which are not at all related to what Steve Bannon believes in. Being militarist and being neocon are not the same thing. He is anti globalist which is at the center of neocon thinking. There are many people that believe in using military force under the right circumstances and that typically includes military men including some of the ones that Trump appointed, but that does not make them neocons. Like I said, neocons hate this guy, he opposes everything that the neocons have been doing.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Neocons follow a particular type of policies which are not at all related to what Steve Bannon believes in. Being militarist and being neocon are not the same thing. He is anti globalist which is at the center of neocon thinking. There are many people that believe in using military force under the right circumstances and that typically includes military men including some of the ones that Trump appointed, but that does not make them neocons. Like I said, neocons hate this guy, he opposes everything that the neocons have been doing.


Steve Bannon sees enemies everywhere, inside and outside America. he wants to eliminate all, if necessary with all means. Donald Trump´s first days in office with many decrees including Muslim ban are influenced if not written by him. how would you classify Steve Bannon if not a radical Neocon?


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## Viet

*Vietnam’s Area Denial Strategy and the South China Sea Dispute*
February 1, 2017
Nicolas Jouan







In October 2016, U.S. Admiral John Richardson, Chief of Naval Operations, advocated in a ground-breaking article the demise of A2/AD (Anti-Access/Area Denial) as a stand-alone term. According to him, the term became so widely used that it had lost any kind of empiricist accuracy. Not only have international observers become more shy in using the acronym since then, but one could also argue that A2/AD does not fit the evolving security situation in the South China Sea (SCS) anymore, where it was extensively used in the first place.

Vietnam used to be a flagship of area denial strategy in practice. With maritime claims clashing directly with China’s ones in the South China Sea, most notably in the Paracel and Spratley islands, Vietnam became a major East Asian security flashpoint over the past few years. The equation is simple, but its solution difficult: China is a bigger, richer, and more populous country, whose challenging behaviors threaten Vietnam’s interests. Consequently, Vietnam chose to balance against its neighbor. In 2013, some observers boldly announced Vietnam’s adoption of A2/AD strategy when the first of a six-strong fleet of Kilo-class attack submarines was delivered to Hanoi. Four years later, as the sixth and last submarine recently arrived at Cam Ranh harbor, what can be said of Vietnam’s conventional deterrence strategy?

From a national defense perspective, area denial should be divided into two different slices: conventional and non-conventional threats. The Vietnam People’s Navy’s capabilities were boosted by the acquisition of six Kilo submarines. The Russian-manufactured model, with its midship positioned sonars and anti-detection tiles, is designed to track and neutralize enemy-vessels. This costly $2 billion acquisition (SIPRI) is aimed at countering conventional threats at sea and, in case of conflict, compensating for at least a limited period of time the clear asymmetry between the Vietnamese and Chinese navies. In other words, Hanoi upgraded its conventional deterrence by severely raising the cost of conflict at sea for any potential opponent.

Such perspective is actually the most extreme and unlikely outcome. Military analysts are rather concerned by the emergence of more deceitful forms of warfare. The multiplication of so-called “blue-boats,” akin to militias at sea, short-circuits traditional interstate conflict management by intruding sovereign waters and harassing locals. China admittedly operates a fully-fledged fleet of blue-boats in order to, in its own words, “defend [its] sovereignty.” Blue-boats’ armament and training, though far below conventional navies, can sometimes reach significant levels, and their assumed ties to governments are frequently purposely unclear. Put more bluntly, blue-boats in the South China Sea dispute are aimed at spoiling one’s neighbor’s life by disturbing its fishing activities and shipping lines, redefining entirely the concept of conflict.

Vietnam’s answer to that threat is hidden in the details. It is only back in 2013 that Vietnam’s Marine Police was officially rebranded “Coast Guard” and started to play a bigger role in Hanoi’s security policy. An organizational overhaul, implementing regional commands, and steady investments were aimed at reinforcing Vietnam’s South China Sea monitoring capabilities and law-enforcement. Transnational threats such as piracy and smuggling conveniently justify the development of a Vietnamese coast-guard force, and broaden Hanoi’s military cooperation perspectives.

New political orientations participate in Vietnam’s balancing strategy by favoring interdependencies with regional and international partners. This issue might seem remote from area denial strategy, but both aspects are complementary. During his recent visit in Hanoi, Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc on developing Japanese investments into Vietnam, increasing development aid loans, and supplying six brand-new patrol ships to the Vietnamese Coast Guard. This long-awaited delivery will help Vietnam to increase its monitoring capabilities in the South China Sea and to counter non-conventional threats.

No third country expects to change Vietnam into a buffer state against China. After all, the so-called “three-nos” policy still officially shape Vietnam’s strategy: no military alliance, no foreign bases, and no reliance on a third party. But A2/AD still makes sense in the minds of the United States, Japan, or India. Hence the recent pouring in defense cooperation agreements and arms supplies destined at reinforcing Vietnam’s territorial sovereignty. The Pentagon provides training to Vietnam through its Maritime Security Initiative, designed to increase Southeast Asian nations’ maritime awareness. India might deliver Akash sol-air missiles to Vietnam in a move openly aimed at containing China, after having agreed to trainHanoi’s fleet of Sukhoi-30s.

What lies ahead in the South China Sea dispute is still unclear. The July 2016 PCA arbitration on China’s claims in the SCS, triggered by the Philippines, was not the milestone expected by partisans of international law. The tribunal declared indeed that the Chinese claims had no legal ground, but Manila reversed its course when the pro-China Rodrigo Duterte won the presidential election in May 2016. Since then, Mr Duterte’s government has been very unclear regarding how to transform the arbitral award into political gains. Vietnamese leaders are resolutely silent about the award anyway, only mildly professing their wish to see international law respected.

The US presidential race and the victory of Donald Trump did nothing to simplify this ambiguous balance. Rex Tillerson, the hawkish secretary of state nominee, declared on January 11 that the United States will “make sure [to] defend international territories from being taken over by one country” in the South China Sea, provoking directly China’s position in the region. In contrast, Vietnam’s Communist Party Secretary General, Mr Nguyen Phu Trong, visited China on January 12-15, promising to President Xi Jinping a renewal of their bilateral relations, most notably, and strikingly, concerning the South China Sea dispute.

It is easy to accuse Vietnam to play smoke and mirrors in its maritime dispute with China. But it would be ignoring the situation’s inherent complexity. Hefty investments in naval and missile capabilities have ensured Vietnam’s A2/AD credibility. But these capabilities increasingly suffer from the same irrelevance as the term itself. With the passing of time, it becomes clear that Hanoi’s core interests reside in ensuring its fishing and shipping security, more than in preparing to counter a phantasmagoric all-out Chinese attack by sea.

The trick is, such threats to civilian activities are still emanating from state-actors, most notably China. Investing in surveillance and law-enforcement is therefore a convenient way to increase one’s presence at sea while skirting accusations of brinkmanship. It is why the future of Vietnam’s area-denial strategy is to be found in its ability to monitor and answer non-conventional threats as well as developing bilateral positive-sum relations with anyone having an interest in preserving the geopolitical balance in the South China Sea.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Steve Bannon sees enemies everywhere, inside and outside America. he wants to eliminate all, if necessary with all means. Donald Trump´s first days in office with many decrees including Muslim ban are influenced if not written by him. how would you classify Steve Bannon if not a radical Neocon?



Bannon is known as a leader of the alt right movement (alternative right). Again, neocons are a very particular group that have a very focused agenda. The alt right followers, including Bannon, have a very different agenda than the neocons. Alt right followers and neocons oppose each other.

For a good explanation of what a neocon is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

*"Neoconservatism* (commonly shortened to *neocon*) is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among conservative-leaning Democrats who became disenchanted with the party's foreign policy. Many of its adherents became politically famous during the Republican presidential administrations of the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. Neoconservatives peaked in influence during the administration of George W. Bush, when they played a major role in promoting and planning the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[1] Prominent neoconservatives in the George W. Bush administration included Paul Wolfowitz, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle and Paul Bremer. Senior officials Vice President Dick Cheneyand Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, while not identifying as neoconservatives, listened closely to neoconservative advisers regarding foreign policy, especially the defense of Israel and the promotion of democracy in the Middle East.

The term "neoconservative" refers to those who made the ideological journey from the anti-Stalinist Leftto the camp of American conservatism.[2] Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including by means of military force and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.[3][4] The movement had its intellectual roots in the Jewish monthly review magazine _Commentary_, published by the American Jewish Committee.[5][6] They spoke out against the New Left and in that way helped define the movement.[7][8] C. Bradley Thompson, a professor at Clemson University, claims that most influential neoconservatives refer explicitly to the theoretical ideas in the philosophy of Leo Strauss (1899–1973),[9]though in doing so they may draw upon meaning that Strauss himself did not endorse."


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Bannon is known as a leader of the alt right movement (alternative right). Again, neocons are a very particular group that have a very focused agenda. The alt right followers, including Bannon, have a very different agenda than the neocons. Alt right followers and neocons oppose each other.
> 
> For a good explanation of what a neocon is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
> 
> *"Neoconservatism* (commonly shortened to *neocon*) is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among conservative-leaning Democrats who became disenchanted with the party's foreign policy. Many of its adherents became politically famous during the Republican presidential administrations of the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. Neoconservatives peaked in influence during the administration of George W. Bush, when they played a major role in promoting and planning the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[1] Prominent neoconservatives in the George W. Bush administration included Paul Wolfowitz, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle and Paul Bremer. Senior officials Vice President Dick Cheneyand Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, while not identifying as neoconservatives, listened closely to neoconservative advisers regarding foreign policy, especially the defense of Israel and the promotion of democracy in the Middle East.
> 
> The term "neoconservative" refers to those who made the ideological journey from the anti-Stalinist Leftto the camp of American conservatism.[2] Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including by means of military force and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.[3][4] The movement had its intellectual roots in the Jewish monthly review magazine _Commentary_, published by the American Jewish Committee.[5][6] They spoke out against the New Left and in that way helped define the movement.[7][8] C. Bradley Thompson, a professor at Clemson University, claims that most influential neoconservatives refer explicitly to the theoretical ideas in the philosophy of Leo Strauss (1899–1973),[9]though in doing so they may draw upon meaning that Strauss himself did not endorse."


Ok thanks that is the term I am looking for: alt-right movement, a place for white supremacists and racists.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ok thanks that is the term I am looking for: alt-right movement, a place for white supremacists and racists. What's the difference to "Chinese dreams"?



You've been listening too much to the anti Trump propaganda spread by the mainstream media that supports the establishment (same story in Germany). Neither Bannon nor the Alt Right are a white supremacists or racist movement (that does not mean that there aren't a few of them there). If you want to learn more about Bannon without the media bias, just go to his news website, the Breitbart News Network: http://www.breitbart.com

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## TenLua

rocketfish said:


> you're a waste of time.
> 
> 
> yes



And your vocabulary is very limited; likewise, your mental capacity.



Carlosa said:


> You've been listening too much to the anti Trump propaganda spread by the mainstream media that supports the establishment (same story in Germany). Neither Bannon nor the Alt Right are a white supremacists or racist movement (that does not mean that there aren't a few of them there). If you want to learn more about Bannon without the media bias, just go to his news website, the Breitbart News Network: http://www.breitbart.com



It's all a charade.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You've been listening too much to the anti Trump propaganda spread by the mainstream media that supports the establishment (same story in Germany). Neither Bannon nor the Alt Right are a white supremacists or racist movement (that does not mean that there aren't a few of them there). If you want to learn more about Bannon without the media bias, just go to his news website, the Breitbart News Network: http://www.breitbart.com


Ok ok we can agree to disagree at this point and move on. We both are not twins impossible to agree on everything, otherwise it will become too boring

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ok ok we can agree to disagree at this point and move on. We both are not twins impossible to agree on everything, otherwise it will become too boring



But of course...... 



Viet said:


> Ok ok we can agree to disagree at this point and move on. We both are not twins impossible to agree on everything, otherwise it will become too boring



Talking about Steve Bannon, here is a very interesting article and very relevant to Vietnam:

*Steve Bannon: 'We're going to war in the South China Sea ... no doubt'*
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...non-donald-trump-war-south-china-sea-no-doubt

Only months ago Donald Trump’s chief strategist predicted military involvement in east Asia and the Middle East in Breitbart radio shows



Steve Bannon: ‘We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years. There’s no doubt about that.’ Photograph: Evan Vucci/AP

Benjamin Haas in Hong Kong

Thursday 2 February 2017 03.55 GMTLast modified on Thursday 2 February 2017 05.09 GMT

The United States and China will fight a war within the next 10 years over islands in the South China Sea, and “there’s no doubt about that”. At the same time, the US will be in another “major” war in the Middle East.

Those are the views – nine months ago at least – of one of the most powerful men in Donald Trump’s administration, Steve Bannon, the former head of far-right news website Breitbart who is now chief strategist at the White House.

In the first weeks of Trump’s presidency, Bannon has emerged as a central figure. He was appointed to the “principals committee” of the National Security Council in a highly unusual move and was influential in the recent travel ban on citizens from seven Muslim-majority countries, overruling Department of Homeland Security officials who felt the order did not apply to green card holders. 

While many in Trump’s team are outspoken critics of China, in radio shows Bannon hosted for Breitbart he makes plain the two largest threats to America: China and Islam. 

“We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years,” he said in March 2016. “There’s no doubt about that. They’re taking their sandbars and making basically stationary aircraft carriers and putting missiles on those. They come here to the United States in front of our face – and you understand how important face is – and say it’s an ancient territorial sea.”

China says nearly the entire South China Sea falls within its territory, with half a dozen other countries maintaining partially overlapping claims. China has built a series of artificial islands on reefs and rocks in attempt to bolster its position, complete with military-length airstrips and anti-aircraft weapons.

Bannon’s sentiments and his position in Trump’s inner circle add to fears of a military confrontation with China, after secretary of state Rex Tillerson said that the US would deny China access to the seven artificial islands. Experts warned any blockade would lead to war. 

Bannon is clearly wary of China’s growing clout in Asia and beyond, framing the relationship as entirely adversarial, predicting a global culture clash in the coming years. 

“You have an expansionist Islam and you have an expansionist China. Right? They are motivated. They’re arrogant. They’re on the march. And they think the Judeo-Christian west is on the retreat,” Bannon said during a February 2016 radio show.

On the day Trump was inaugurated, China’s military warned that war between the two countries was a real possibility.

“A ‘war within the president’s term’ or ‘war breaking out tonight’ are not just slogans, they are becoming a practical reality,” an official wrote on the website of the People’s Liberation Army. 

Aside from conflict between armies, Bannon repeatedly focused on his perception that Christianity around the world is under threat. 

In one radio show, used to promote an article incorrectly claiming that a mosque had been built at the North Pole, Bannon focused heavily on China’s oppression of Christian groups.

“The one thing the Chinese fear more than America … they fear Christianity more than anything,” he said. 

But China is not the only hotspot Bannon sees, and forecasts another ground war for American troops in the Middle East.

“Some of these situations may get a little unpleasant,” Bannon said in November 2015. “But you know what, we’re in a war. We’re clearly going into, I think, a major shooting war in the Middle East again.”

He also branded Islam as “the most radical” religion in the world, and moved swiftly since entering the White House to enact policies hostile to Muslims. Some have called Trump’s central doctrine a “war on Islam”.



TenLua said:


> It's all a charade.




If anything, the last 6 months have shown that the mainstream media, particularly in USA is all a big charade.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> But of course......
> 
> 
> 
> Talking about Steve Bannon, here is a very interesting article and very relevant to Vietnam:
> 
> *Steve Bannon: 'We're going to war in the South China Sea ... no doubt'*
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...non-donald-trump-war-south-china-sea-no-doubt
> 
> Only months ago Donald Trump’s chief strategist predicted military involvement in east Asia and the Middle East in Breitbart radio shows
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Bannon: ‘We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years. There’s no doubt about that.’ Photograph: Evan Vucci/AP
> 
> Benjamin Haas in Hong Kong
> 
> Thursday 2 February 2017 03.55 GMTLast modified on Thursday 2 February 2017 05.09 GMT
> 
> The United States and China will fight a war within the next 10 years over islands in the South China Sea, and “there’s no doubt about that”. At the same time, the US will be in another “major” war in the Middle East.
> 
> Those are the views – nine months ago at least – of one of the most powerful men in Donald Trump’s administration, Steve Bannon, the former head of far-right news website Breitbart who is now chief strategist at the White House.
> 
> In the first weeks of Trump’s presidency, Bannon has emerged as a central figure. He was appointed to the “principals committee” of the National Security Council in a highly unusual move and was influential in the recent travel ban on citizens from seven Muslim-majority countries, overruling Department of Homeland Security officials who felt the order did not apply to green card holders.
> 
> While many in Trump’s team are outspoken critics of China, in radio shows Bannon hosted for Breitbart he makes plain the two largest threats to America: China and Islam.
> 
> “We’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years,” he said in March 2016. “There’s no doubt about that. They’re taking their sandbars and making basically stationary aircraft carriers and putting missiles on those. They come here to the United States in front of our face – and you understand how important face is – and say it’s an ancient territorial sea.”
> 
> China says nearly the entire South China Sea falls within its territory, with half a dozen other countries maintaining partially overlapping claims. China has built a series of artificial islands on reefs and rocks in attempt to bolster its position, complete with military-length airstrips and anti-aircraft weapons.
> 
> Bannon’s sentiments and his position in Trump’s inner circle add to fears of a military confrontation with China, after secretary of state Rex Tillerson said that the US would deny China access to the seven artificial islands. Experts warned any blockade would lead to war.
> 
> Bannon is clearly wary of China’s growing clout in Asia and beyond, framing the relationship as entirely adversarial, predicting a global culture clash in the coming years.
> 
> “You have an expansionist Islam and you have an expansionist China. Right? They are motivated. They’re arrogant. They’re on the march. And they think the Judeo-Christian west is on the retreat,” Bannon said during a February 2016 radio show.
> 
> On the day Trump was inaugurated, China’s military warned that war between the two countries was a real possibility.
> 
> “A ‘war within the president’s term’ or ‘war breaking out tonight’ are not just slogans, they are becoming a practical reality,” an official wrote on the website of the People’s Liberation Army.
> 
> Aside from conflict between armies, Bannon repeatedly focused on his perception that Christianity around the world is under threat.
> 
> In one radio show, used to promote an article incorrectly claiming that a mosque had been built at the North Pole, Bannon focused heavily on China’s oppression of Christian groups.
> 
> “The one thing the Chinese fear more than America … they fear Christianity more than anything,” he said.
> 
> But China is not the only hotspot Bannon sees, and forecasts another ground war for American troops in the Middle East.
> 
> “Some of these situations may get a little unpleasant,” Bannon said in November 2015. “But you know what, we’re in a war. We’re clearly going into, I think, a major shooting war in the Middle East again.”
> 
> He also branded Islam as “the most radical” religion in the world, and moved swiftly since entering the White House to enact policies hostile to Muslims. Some have called Trump’s central doctrine a “war on Islam”.
> 
> 
> 
> If anything, the last 6 months have shown that the mainstream media, particularly in USA is all a big charade.


Autsch! that is a sharp rhetoric by Bannon, unthinkable under Obama administration. Some in America may have finally realized that appeasement policy has led to nowhere.

Have you heard the news?

Our friend Rex Tillerson has received Senat approval. I think, both Bannon and Tillerson will become best friends in the White House.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam and China: contingent cooperation, not capitulation*
2 February 2017

Author: Andrew Chubb, UWA

http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2017/02/02/vietnam-and-china-contingent-cooperation-not-capitulation/

On 12 January, Vietnamese Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong arrived in China for a lavish, well publicised four-day official visit.

Nguyen’s trip symbolised the significant improvement in Sino–Vietnamese relations since their nadir during the HYSY-981 oil rig confrontations in mid-2014. Hanoi’s subsequent suppression of nationalist protests marking the 19 January anniversary of China’s eviction of South Vietnamese forces from the Paracel Islands in 1974 has since confirmed the relative health of ties between the two party-states.

But linking Nguyen’s trip into a narrative of alleged Southeast Asian countries acquiescingto Beijing’s claims in the South China Sea would be misleading. Rather than a Vietnamese tilt towards China, the visit was a continuation of recurring features of the bilateral relationship, amid improving ties underpinned by the moderation of some of China’s policies.

Over the past few years, official visits by party and state leaders have been a regular feature of Sino–Vietnamese relations at all but the worst of times. Each trip has concluded with detailed bilateral statement, so a basic idea of the significance of the 2017 visit can be gleaned by comparing the joint communique it produced against earlier documents of this type.

One salient change was the ‘close and friendly’ atmosphere that the communique said prevailed through Nguyen’s meetings. By comparison, it has usually been ‘friendly and candid’ since 2007–2008, when China’s policy in the South China Sea became more assertive. This implies the general state of relations is now equivalent to that which prevailed in the early to mid-2000s when the description was often used.

Secretary Nguyen’s trip did not mark any major change or softening in Vietnam’s position on the South China Sea issue. It did, however, continue the revival of maritime crisis management and confidence-building initiatives — such as Coast Guard exchanges and a fisheries incident hotline — whose progress appears to have stalled after the HYSY-981 incident.

While the joint statements from leaders’ visits in 2011 and 2013 included a call for ‘calmness and restraint’, this language has been absent from more recent documents. This suggests the two party-states consider the present level of tension in the disputed area to be lower. It also implies a mutual recognition of each other’s policy status quo as basically rational.

A further sign of the reduced tensions on the water is that the most recent communiques have called for implementation of the 2003 Declaration of Conduct for the South China Sea, and pursuit of a Code of Conduct _before_ affirming the need for ‘control of maritime disputes’. Previous documents back to 2013 had placed this before the multilateral agreements — the 2011 did not even mention them.

Hanoi’s symbolic declarations of cooperation with China have often been accompanied by substantive cooperative initiatives with China’s rivals, and the 2017 meeting was no exception.

While the Vietnamese Communist Party’s General Secretary received red-carpet treatment in Beijing, then-US secretary of state John Kerry was in Hanoi, witnessing the 13 January signing of two heads of agreement between ExxonMobil and Vietnam’s state oil company PetroVietnam over a major undersea gasfield straddling the PRC’s nine-dash line. Beijing has previously issued warnings to Exxon over its participation in the project, which is now estimated to contain 5.3 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The latest plan will see the US multinational build an 88-kilometre undersea pipeline, carrying gas to the Vietnamese mainland by 2021.

The day after Nguyen concluded his China trip, Vietnam welcomed Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to Hanoi. Standing beside Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, Abe announced Japan would provide six new patrol vessels on low-interest development loans to ‘strongly support Vietnam’s enhancing its maritime law enforcement capability’. These white-hulled capabilities have been central to China’s advances in the disputed areas in recent years, so it was an announcement with both symbolism and substance.

Similarly, when now-Premier Nguyen Xuan Phuc was in Beijing in September 2015, General Secretary Nguyen was in Tokyo securing secondhand maritime patrol boats, along with Japanese criticism of land reclamation in the South China Sea. This pattern has been apparent since at least 2011. During General Secretary Nguyen’s October 2011 trip, Chairman Truong Tan Sang was visiting India, strengthening military training exchanges, confirming Indian access to the Nha Trang port, and negotiating to purchase BrahMos cruise missiles. Indian and Vietnamese state oil companies also signed deals covering disputed areas of the South China Sea.

Vietnam’s highly conspicuous hedging appears designed to signal to Beijing that its cooperation does not imply acquiescence, but is rather contingent on China’s own conduct.

Indeed, Chinese policy in the South China Sea is probably the most important determinant of the state of bilateral ties. Since 2000 at least, the frequency and warmth of the leaders’ communiqués has tended to correlate – negatively – with the pace of China’s assertive advances in the disputed area. Consistent with this pattern, China has moderated its conduct in some important ways in recent months.

Some adjustments to Chinese policy have, for the time being at least, brought Beijing into partial compliance with the 2016 ruling of the UNCLOS-mandated arbitral tribunal. Despite its surface-level bluster rejecting the process, the PRC has, for example, eased its harassment of Philippine fishers at Scarborough Shoal, allowing them access to the fishing grounds within the atoll’s lagoon.

One of the key sources of Sino–Vietnamese maritime tensions since 2007 has been the PRC’s assertions — verbal and at times physical — of oil and gas rights across the area within the nine-dash line. This was another of the key elements of China’s policy that was deemed unlawful by the UNCLOS arbitral tribunal.

But shortly after the ruling, a new and detailed interpretation of the nine-dash line, published in the military’s official newspaper, appeared to decouple the line from claims to energy resources. That Beijing has so far refrained from publicly criticising the above-mentioned Exxon–PetroVietnam offshore gas project further suggests China may have pulled back from its pursuit of particular claims that have no basis in international law.

The removal of this major driver of Sino–Vietnamese tensions offers the most compelling, but also easily overlooked, explanation for the recent warming of bilateral ties.

_Andrew Chubb is a PhD Candidate at the University of Western Australia. You can follow him on Twitter at __@zhubochubo__._

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam’s Area Denial Strategy and the South China Sea Dispute*
*https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/vietnams-area-denial-strategy-and-the-south-china-sea-dispute/*






In October 2016, U.S. Admiral John Richardson, Chief of Naval Operations, advocated in a ground-breaking article the demise of A2/AD (Anti-Access/Area Denial) as a stand-alone term. According to him, the term became so widely used that it had lost any kind of empiricist accuracy. Not only have international observers become more shy in using the acronym since then, but one could also argue that A2/AD does not fit the evolving security situation in the South China Sea (SCS) anymore, where it was extensively used in the first place.

Vietnam used to be a flagship of area denial strategy in practice. With maritime claims clashing directly with China’s ones in the South China Sea, most notably in the Paracel and Spratley islands, Vietnam became a major East Asian security flashpoint over the past few years. The equation is simple, but its solution difficult: China is a bigger, richer, and more populous country, whose challenging behaviors threaten Vietnam’s interests. Consequently, Vietnam chose to balance against its neighbor. In 2013, some observers boldly announced Vietnam’s adoption of A2/AD strategy when the first of a six-strong fleet of Kilo-class attack submarines was delivered to Hanoi. Four years later, as the sixth and last submarine recently arrived at Cam Ranh harbor, what can be said of Vietnam’s conventional deterrence strategy?

From a national defense perspective, area denial should be divided into two different slices: conventional and non-conventional threats. The Vietnam People’s Navy’s capabilities were boosted by the acquisition of six Kilo submarines. The Russian-manufactured model, with its midship positioned sonars and anti-detection tiles, is designed to track and neutralize enemy-vessels. This costly $2 billion acquisition (SIPRI) is aimed at countering conventional threats at sea and, in case of conflict, compensating for at least a limited period of time the clear asymmetry between the Vietnamese and Chinese navies. In other words, Hanoi upgraded its conventional deterrence by severely raising the cost of conflict at sea for any potential opponent.

Such perspective is actually the most extreme and unlikely outcome. Military analysts are rather concerned by the emergence of more deceitful forms of warfare. The multiplication of so-called “blue-boats,” akin to militias at sea, short-circuits traditional interstate conflict management by intruding sovereign waters and harassing locals. China admittedly operates a fully-fledged fleet of blue-boats in order to, in its own words, “defend [its] sovereignty.” Blue-boats’ armament and training, though far below conventional navies, can sometimes reach significant levels, and their assumed ties to governments are frequently purposely unclear. Put more bluntly, blue-boats in the South China Sea dispute are aimed at spoiling one’s neighbor’s life by disturbing its fishing activities and shipping lines, redefining entirely the concept of conflict.

Vietnam’s answer to that threat is hidden in the details. It is only back in 2013 that Vietnam’s Marine Police was officially rebranded “Coast Guard” and started to play a bigger role in Hanoi’s security policy. An organizational overhaul, implementing regional commands, and steady investments were aimed at reinforcing Vietnam’s South China Sea monitoring capabilities and law-enforcement. Transnational threats such as piracy and smuggling conveniently justify the development of a Vietnamese coast-guard force, and broaden Hanoi’s military cooperation perspectives.

New political orientations participate in Vietnam’s balancing strategy by favoring interdependencies with regional and international partners. This issue might seem remote from area denial strategy, but both aspects are complementary. During his recent visit in Hanoi, Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc on developing Japanese investments into Vietnam, increasing development aid loans, and supplying six brand-new patrol ships to the Vietnamese Coast Guard. This long-awaited delivery will help Vietnam to increase its monitoring capabilities in the South China Sea and to counter non-conventional threats.

No third country expects to change Vietnam into a buffer state against China. After all, the so-called “three-nos” policy still officially shape Vietnam’s strategy: no military alliance, no foreign bases, and no reliance on a third party. But A2/AD still makes sense in the minds of the United States, Japan, or India. Hence the recent pouring in defense cooperation agreements and arms supplies destined at reinforcing Vietnam’s territorial sovereignty. The Pentagon provides training to Vietnam through its Maritime Security Initiative, designed to increase Southeast Asian nations’ maritime awareness. India might deliver Akash sol-air missiles to Vietnam in a move openly aimed at containing China, after having agreed to train Hanoi’s fleet of Sukhoi-30s.

What lies ahead in the South China Sea dispute is still unclear. The July 2016 PCA arbitration on China’s claims in the SCS, triggered by the Philippines, was not the milestone expected by partisans of international law. The tribunal declared indeed that the Chinese claims had no legal ground, but Manila reversed its course when the pro-China Rodrigo Duterte won the presidential election in May 2016. Since then, Mr Duterte’s government has been very unclear regarding how to transform the arbitral award into political gains. Vietnamese leaders are resolutely silent about the award anyway, only mildly professing their wish to see international law respected.

The US presidential race and the victory of Donald Trump did nothing to simplify this ambiguous balance. Rex Tillerson, the hawkish secretary of state nominee, declared on January 11 that the United States will “make sure [to] defend international territories from being taken over by one country” in the South China Sea, provoking directly China’s position in the region. In contrast, Vietnam’s Communist Party Secretary General, Mr Nguyen Phu Trong, visited China on January 12-15, promising to President Xi Jinping a renewal of their bilateral relations, most notably, and strikingly, concerning the South China Sea dispute.

It is easy to accuse Vietnam to play smoke and mirrors in its maritime dispute with China. But it would be ignoring the situation’s inherent complexity. Hefty investments in naval and missile capabilities have ensured Vietnam’s A2/AD credibility. But these capabilities increasingly suffer from the same irrelevance as the term itself. With the passing of time, it becomes clear that Hanoi’s core interests reside in ensuring its fishing and shipping security, more than in preparing to counter a phantasmagoric all-out Chinese attack by sea.

The trick is, such threats to civilian activities are still emanating from state-actors, most notably China. Investing in surveillance and law-enforcement is therefore a convenient way to increase one’s presence at sea while skirting accusations of brinkmanship. It is why the future of Vietnam’s area-denial strategy is to be found in its ability to monitor and answer non-conventional threats as well as developing bilateral positive-sum relations with anyone having an interest in preserving the geopolitical balance in the South China Sea.


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## Silent Knight

Wooops.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Wooops.


medium range air launched Kh-31 antiship missile I guess? something special?


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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> medium range air launched Kh-31 antiship missile I guess? something special?


Well, rumors (again) have it that VPAF has acquired the extended range variants for both Kh-31A and Kh-31P.

Also, that second picture was taken by me, not sure how it ended up on Blogspot.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Well, rumors (again) have it that VPAF has acquired the extended range variants for both Kh-31A and Kh-31P.
> 
> Also, that second picture was taken by me, not sure how it ended up on Blogspot.


Come on bro, if there is anyone that spreads rumors here and there then it is me. I know of nothing. If an insider like you takes a close picture of the missile I would assume, you know more than you can tell


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## Viet

ok as the world talks on Donald Trump let continue with it 

not a defence news, but more economy
@rocketfish 

the Donald Trump administration is apparently determined to impose a 20% import tariffs across over the board, with some countries will even "enjoy" a 40% import tax. today the "Spiegel" posts a report who will suffer most by an escalating trade war, with an interesting graph showing the US´s 5 top trading nations and blocs. everyone sees it? How is it possible, a country as Canada with only 35 million people has a trade volumes of 583 billion in 2015? yes it has has something with Vietnam hence I make the post. some may argue that is nothing relating to VN but anyway opinions are opinions everyone is free to say everything.








good, we all know Canada has smart businesspeople, but others not?

there are sizeable vietnamese population in Canada, making considerable economic activities hence contributing a part to Canada economic success. the first vietnamese settled down Canada after the Fall of Saigon in 1975 and during the years of chaos in the 1979-1980 have refugee background, coming to the country with nothing. starting everything by Zero. but according to a income report of the year 2000, the vietnamese canadians had average income of $23,000, compared to $30,000 for all Canadians. I would guess, the gap is closed today. along with other Canadian politicians, the present day Prime Minister Justin Trudeau attended the Tet days, back in 2014.

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> Come on bro, if there is anyone that spreads rumors here and there then it is me. I know of nothing. If an insider like you takes a close picture of the missile I would assume, you know more than you can tell


No no, my friend, I'm just an ordinary member, not an insider.

However, @Carlosa should be monitored for extracting information from "certain" sources.


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## Aqsuperman

Truck - based and tank - based engineering vehicles of the VPAF. Most of the time, their primary role are clearing obstacle and digging trench. But im pretty sure they can be used in towing duties are well. 


This guy utilizes the T-72 chassis so the claim that Vietnam possesses T-72 is not entirely wrong.....in a sense :v 











And this guy can be used both as a bulldozer and for digging trench.

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> No no, my friend, I'm just an ordinary member, not an insider.
> 
> However, @Carlosa should be monitored for extracting information from "certain" sources.


you are humble. I expected a guy that is allowed to make close pictures of military toys tends to brag, but you are not. oh you are right. Carlosa deserves a penalty. I read the King of Spain Felipe VI and his wife Queen Letizia will visit Vietnam. he should convince the Spaniards to come with la *Armada Invencible .*

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> you are humble. I expected a guy that is allowed to make close pictures of military toys tends to brag, but you are not. oh you are right. Carlosa deserves a penalty. I read the King of Spain Felipe VI and his wife Queen Letizia will visit Vietnam. he should convince the Spaniards to come with la *Armada Invencible .*



Hey, I'm just an innocent observer here, the fact that some members of the Vietnamese military happen to be personal friends of mine, it does not make any difference at all, I swear that they do not disclosed any classified information to me. If they were to do that, then they would it have to kill me afterwards and of course that's not good for my health, so definitely, I don't know anything, I didn't hear anything, I swear.....  SK is simply spreading misinformation about me. 



Viet said:


> you are humble. I expected a guy that is allowed to make close pictures of military toys tends to brag, but you are not. oh you are right. Carlosa deserves a penalty. I read the King of Spain Felipe VI and his wife Queen Letizia will visit Vietnam. he should convince the Spaniards to come with la *Armada Invencible .*



La Armada Invencible has been underwater for some time, but we'll be happy to sell you corvettes, frigates, AEGIS destroyers and even small aircraft carriers. Low interest loans are available

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## Silent Knight

Viet said:


> you are humble. I expected a guy that is allowed to make close pictures of military toys tends to brag, but you are not.


They always say "the less you know, the better", especially when you're dealing with sensitive military information.

So yeah, my personal motto is "I know nothing". 



Carlosa said:


> Hey, I'm just an innocent observer here, the fact that some members of the Vietnamese military happen to be personal friends of mine, it does not make any difference at all, I swear that they do not disclosed any classified information to me. If they were to do that, then they would it have to kill me afterwards and of course that's not good for my health, so definitely, I don't know anything, I didn't hear anything, I swear.....  SK is simply spreading misinformation about me.
> 
> 
> 
> La Armada Invencible has been underwater for some time, but we'll be happy to sell you corvettes, frigates, AEGIS destroyers and even small aircraft carriers. Low interest loans are available


Send Barcelona and Real Madrid to Vietnam first, then we'll talk business.

Also, I'll report you to the authorities for trying to extract our military information. Not a good thing for a Spaniard in Vietnam


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## Viet

Comrade Vladmir Putin should listen to his economic advisers to increase investments in Vietnam, making the country to a base for producing all russian stuffs and export to other regions. many truck manufactures as Kamaz and others make great business with the Vietnamese armed forces. TPP is dead. that is the chance for Russia. Welcome 

http://rbth.com/business/2017/01/31/tpp-failure-can-vietnam-become-russias-window-to-asia_692768

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## Carlosa

Silent Knight said:


> Send Barcelona and Real Madrid to Vietnam first, then we'll talk business.
> 
> Also, I'll report you to the authorities for trying to extract our military information. Not a good thing for a Spaniard in Vietnam



Oh now I understand why C2 invited me for green tea next Monday, it was you! But man, you have to understand, I have to make a living, Spanish intelligence pays me quite well for reporting on the Vietnamese military. But I will make it up to you, Barcelona and Real Madrid are coming to Hanoi in 2017, I promise


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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> Oh now I understand why C2 invited me for green tea next Monday, it was you! But man, you have to understand, I have to make a living, Spanish intelligence pays me quite well for reporting on the Vietnamese military. But I will make it up to you, Barcelona and Real Madrid are coming to Hanoi in 2017, I promise



The spaniards went to south America a while back. It didn't turn out well for the natives. Not to mention belgium and the Congo not TOO long ago.

Why are the spaniards visiting Vietnam now?


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> The spaniards went to south America a while back. It didn't turn out well for the natives. Not to mention belgium and the Congo not TOO long ago.
> 
> Why are the spaniards visiting Vietnam now?


Well the spaniards went to South America looking for Gold, while the Belgians searched Diamond in Congo. Vietnam has little Gold, lesser Diamond but cheap beer in abundance. That is the reason why Carloso and many foreigners are visiting or living in Vietnam

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Well the spaniards went to South America looking for Gold, while the Belgians searched Diamond in Congo. Vietnam has little Gold, lesser Diamond but cheap beer in abundance. That is the reason why Carloso and many foreigners are visiting or living in Vietnam



Have not been back but I heard the ladies are delicious too.


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## Silent Knight

TenLua said:


> Have not been back but I heard the ladies are delicious too.


So is dog meat 



Carlosa said:


> Oh now I understand why C2 invited me for green tea next Monday, it was you! But man, you have to understand, I have to make a living, Spanish intelligence pays me quite well for reporting on the Vietnamese military. But I will make it up to you, Barcelona and Real Madrid are coming to Hanoi in 2017, I promise


You saw that coming, my friend, better run to Thailand and order a gender transformation to hide.


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## rocketfish

Carlosa said:


> You've been listening too much to the anti Trump propaganda spread by the mainstream media that supports the establishment (same story in Germany). Neither Bannon nor the Alt Right are a white supremacists or racist movement (that does not mean that there aren't a few of them there). If you want to learn more about Bannon without the media bias, just go to his news website, the Breitbart News



Very true. A lot of people like Tenlua are easily fooled by fake news. I stopped watching & listening to mainstream media and now I'm sourcing my news through independent means and think for myself. Using common sense is much better. I go by one rule and that is everyone is "selfish" and they all want to protect themselves using whatever they have to be at the top. Donald Trump cannot be bought out and that's how I know the guy is more legit than the rest. Again, using common sense and real life experience.

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## Carlosa

rocketfish said:


> Very true. A lot of people like Tenlua are easily fooled by fake news. I stopped watching & listening to mainstream media and now I'm sourcing my news through independent means and think for myself. Using common sense is much better. I go by one rule and that is everyone is "selfish" and they all want to protect themselves using whatever they have to be at the top. Donald Trump cannot be bought out and that's how I know the guy is more legit than the rest. Again, using common sense and real life experience.



Absolutely man, well said. The MSM media and the establishment have very powerful means to spread their agenda at every level and influence well intentioned people and play with their emotions to stir up hate and move people in the direction that they want. They've been doing it for many years and they have fine tuned their systems. Whether making color revolutions or simply brainwashing people, they are experts at it.

An example in Syria of how they influence people by making the Russians and the Syrian regime looks bad: They issue lots of fake news of outrageous attacks on hospitals (but later nobody can find such bombed hospitals) or bombings of civilians (but the civilians in the area report that nothing happened) or the white helmets (which are associated with the rebels and are financed by the CIA) keep showing pictures of a wounded little girl or a woman which later was found to be staged (shown with pictures) and sometimes kept using the same little girls multiple times. People see those images and feel outraged and support "safe zones" etc, which is what was intended.

Same story to make the Ukranian neo nazis look good and the rebels and Russia look bad. The MSM media always reports on this stuff but rarely reports on evidence of the opposite side. 

If people are not going to be influenced by the MSM media, they need to take a good deal of interest and effort to find the alternative media outlets and a good deal of discrimination to distinguish what is real and what is fake which is not easy since all the players always have an agenda.



Silent Knight said:


> So is dog meat
> 
> 
> You saw that coming, my friend, better run to Thailand and order a gender transformation to hide.



I have to do gender transformation again? Oh troi oi.....



Viet said:


> Well the spaniards went to South America looking for Gold, while the Belgians searched Diamond in Congo. Vietnam has little Gold, lesser Diamond but cheap beer in abundance. That is the reason why Carloso and many foreigners are visiting or living in Vietnam



Beer and girls bro, the best in Southeast Asia, no doubt.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Have not been back but I heard the ladies are delicious too.


I admit the combination of girls and beer is irresistible 

Ok I think it is not fair only linking girl and beer. There are also smart girls and women making the way for Vietnam to progress. Sherry Boger, for example, the American women in the red Ao dai, a perfect dress to Tet. She is Intel Vice President and General Manager of Intel Products Vietnam. During a recent visit of the party city chief to the Intel Saigon plant. Some interesting facts: The $1 billion Intel assembly and testing plant produces 80 pct of all semiconductor chips used in computers and laptops worldwide. Intel recently announced factory closures and job cuts globally, but increases investment and jobs in Vietnam. A new assembly and testing facility, 100 times cleaner than the existing one, will be constructed. Once completed much smaller semiconductor components could be assembled and tested for smartphones, for all devices of Internet of Thing.

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## TenLua

rocketfish said:


> Very true. A lot of people like Tenlua are easily fooled by fake news. I stopped watching & listening to mainstream media and now I'm sourcing my news through independent means and think for myself. Using common sense is much better. I go by one rule and that is everyone is "selfish" and they all want to protect themselves using whatever they have to be at the top. Donald Trump cannot be bought out and that's how I know the guy is more legit than the rest. Again, using common sense and real life experience.



And you're just an average sheeple if you think a businessman like trump can't be bought. Feeble common sense at best and just down right permanent stupidity for the rest.



Carlosa said:


> Absolutely man, well said. The MSM media and the establishment have very powerful means to spread their agenda at every level and influence well intentioned people and play with their emotions to stir up hate and move people in the direction that they want. They've been doing it for many years and they have fine tuned their systems. Whether making color revolutions or simply brainwashing people, they are experts at it.
> 
> An example in Syria of how they influence people by making the Russians and the Syrian regime looks bad: They issue lots of fake news of outrageous attacks on hospitals (but later nobody can find such bombed hospitals) or bombings of civilians (but the civilians in the area report that nothing happened) or the white helmets (which are associated with the rebels and are financed by the CIA) keep showing pictures of a wounded little girl or a woman which later was found to be staged (shown with pictures) and sometimes kept using the same little girls multiple times. People see those images and feel outraged and support "safe zones" etc, which is what was intended.
> 
> Same story to make the Ukranian neo nazis look good and the rebels and Russia look bad. The MSM media always reports on this stuff but rarely reports on evidence of the opposite side.
> 
> If people are not going to be influenced by the MSM media, they need to take a good deal of interest and effort to find the alternative media outlets and a good deal of discrimination to distinguish what is real and what is fake which is not easy since all the players always have an agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to do gender transformation again? Oh troi oi.....
> 
> 
> 
> Beer and girls bro, the best in Southeast Asia, no doubt.



cnn is just cia propaganda. same goes for most msm. rocketfish just figured that out when it should have been common knowledge since forever ago. Fucking monkey found a pebble and he thinks he discovered infinity.


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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> And you're just an average sheeple if you think a businessman like trump can't be bought. Feeble common sense at best and just down right permanent stupidity for the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> cnn is just cia propaganda. same goes for most msm. rocketfish just figured that out when it should have been common knowledge since forever ago. Fucking monkey found a pebble and he thinks he discovered infinity.



Relax you guys, lets keep things friendly.

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## Nilgiri

Dunno why after a while this thread doesn't pop up in my alerts even though im watching it.

Annoying AF. 

Hope the thread regulars are doing well.

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> And you're just an average sheeple if you think a businessman like trump can't be bought. Feeble common sense at best and just down right permanent stupidity for the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> cnn is just cia propaganda. same goes for most msm. rocketfish just figured that out when it should have been common knowledge since forever ago. Fucking monkey found a pebble and he thinks he discovered infinity.



For those that don't know, the CIA had a secret operation to influence the media called Operation Mockingbird. It was later ordered to dismantled the project, but it never did, it simply continue it as a covert operation. The project has been expanded into foreign media, particularly in Europe. Project Mockingbird also contributes a lot to the making of color revolutions.
For more info see wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

*Operation Mockingbird* was allegedly a large-scale program of the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) that, beginning in the early 1950s, attempted to manipulate news media for propaganda purposes, and funded student and cultural organizations and magazines as front organisations.

According to writer Deborah Davis, Mockingbird recruited leading American journalists into a propaganda network and oversaw the operations of front groups. CIA support of front groups was exposed after a 1967 _Ramparts_ magazine article revealed that the National Student Association received funding from the CIA. Congressional investigations and reports in the 1970s also revealed Agency connections with journalists and civic groups. None of these reports, however, mentions an Operation Mockingbird controlling or supporting these activities.

A Project Mockingbird is mentioned in the CIA Family Jewels report, compiled in the mid-70s. According to the declassified version of the report released in 2007, Project Mockingbird involved wire-tapping of two American journalists for several months in the early 1960s.



Nilgiri said:


> Dunno why after a while this thread doesn't pop up in my alerts even though im watching it.
> 
> Annoying AF.
> 
> Hope the thread regulars are doing well.



Long time no see man, looking forward to see you here more often. Take care.

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## Viet

enough S-300 missiles to cover the airspace

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## Viet

that is probably a job for members of special forces. PetroVietnam maintains a large oil and gas tanker fleet, with own transport arms PVT or PVTrans. aboard of vessels when sailing thru dangerous waters filled of pirates such as Gulf of Aden, the coasts of Somalia and Oman there are armed guards. on pics, the guards carry rifles, but I would bet they have machine guns as well.

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## Silent Knight

That guy in the foreground though, this is the first time I see such technique to hold the rifle.


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> That guy in the foreground though, this is the first time I see such technique to hold the rifle.


looks unprofessional, yes I believe too, he holds either the rifle in the incorrect way or the picture was taken when he was about to do it. this type of vessel is nice, too. made in Vietnam: oil tank storage, capable to store hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil at sea. PetroVietnam has a dozen of them. we may need more such tankers for building up our strategic oil reserves.

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## Viet

Today in the news. The former US Vice President Joe Biden warned Chinese president Xi Jinping during a heated conservation over North Korea nuclear threat: if China failed to act, refusing to impose creditable pressure on the Kim regime to behave, Japan could go nuclear overnight, arming itself with nuclear weapons.

During Shinzo Abe recent visit to Vietnam, I bet he likely talked about his country's security concerns but unlikely delivered reasons on Japan's rapid military buildup. Regardless, one thing was made public: Japan has completed all legislative steps to put TPP into force immediately and urges Vietnam to do the same. So theoretically, Vietnam can form a trade pact with other 10 pacific nations tomorrow.

The trade bloc would be led by Japan and could be later expanded to a military alliance. A pacific military bloc.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Today in the news. The former US Vice President Joe Biden warned Chinese president Xi Jinping during a heated conservation over North Korea nuclear threat: if China failed to act, refusing to impose creditable pressure on the Kim regime to behave, Japan could go nuclear overnight, arming itself with nuclear weapons.
> 
> During Shinzo Abe recent visit to Vietnam, I bet he likely talked about his country's security concerns but unlikely delivered reasons on Japan's rapid military buildup. Regardless, one thing was made public: Japan has completed all legislative steps to put TPP into force immediately and urges Vietnam to do the same. So theoretically, Vietnam can form a trade pact with other 10 pacific nations tomorrow.
> 
> The trade bloc would be led by Japan and could be later expanded to a military alliance. A pacific military bloc.



Hopefully Japan will transfer Gundam mobile suit technology to Viet Nam.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Hopefully Japan will transfer Gundam mobile suit technology to Viet Nam.


No toys please. What we need is technology to build real stuffs: destroyer, submarine and airplane.

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## Viet

New in service in the Coast Guard: a fleet of Vietnam made high-speed patrol vessels, MS50S class, made of PPC. top speed 35 kn. good for chasing pirates and other intruders.


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## Viet

Vietnam with some over 100 ships has third largest number of coast guard vessels behind China and Japan. Good that both Vietnam and Japan joint force combating piracy in east asian waters.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> No toys please. What we need is technology to build real stuffs: destroyer, submarine and airplane.


You have no sense of humor.


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## rocketfish

TenLua said:


> And you're just an average sheeple if you think a businessman like trump can't be bought. Feeble common sense at best and just down right permanent stupidity for the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> cnn is just cia propaganda. same goes for most msm. rocketfish just figured that out when it should have been common knowledge since forever ago. Fucking monkey found a pebble and he thinks he discovered infinity.



Cheer up bud. Have a lollipop or something. You sound like a crybaby. FYI, CNN is not the CIA, lol. 



Viet said:


> No toys please. What we need is technology to build real stuffs: destroyer, submarine and airplane.



Can't blame the guy for not growing up yet. Sad.


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## TenLua

rocketfish said:


> Cheer up bud. Have a lollipop or something. You sound like a crybaby. FYI, CNN is not the CIA, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't blame the guy for not growing up yet. Sad.



HAHAHA shows how much you know.

You can change your name as many time as you like, you'll always be a cheap sell out, it's just who you are--for life. You can't even stick to a username on the internet let alone have any loyalty towards a country. 

BTW I can own you at will and make you change it again LOL.


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## Viet

rocketfish said:


> Cheer up bud. Have a lollipop or something. You sound like a crybaby. FYI, CNN is not the CIA, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't blame the guy for not growing up yet. Sad.





TenLua said:


> HAHAHA shows how much you know.
> 
> You can change your name as many time as you like, you'll always be a cheap sell out, it's just who you are--for life. You can't even stick to a username on the internet let alone have any loyalty towards a country.
> 
> BTW I can own you at will and make you change it again LOL.


hey boys, how about avoiding to dig too deep into one´s mentality and returning to topic: VN military power?

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## Viet

made in VN oil tanker, enough fuel aboard to replenish an entire fleet of either commercial or military ships.

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## Viet

The Vietnamese people's army has come from a long way. 72 years ago, during one of the most critical times in the vietnamese history, founded few days before Christmas 1944, starting with few dozens men, with almost without weapons, fighting against double foreign aggressions, the french and the japanese.

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## Carlosa

Recent picture of an upgraded T-55:

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## Viet

Kilo attack submarine *187 Bà Rịa-Vũng Tàu*

*



*
*



*
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*
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*
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*
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*

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## Viet

maybe a repost. serial production of 105 mm artillery gun truck

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## Viet

there is plan to mount a Vietnam made 100mm mortar on a Uaz vehicle.


















live fire exercise
the development will see unmanned computer controlled batteries of artillery guns. 






a platoon

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Kilo attack submarine *187 Bà Rịa-Vũng Tàu*
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



Do Viet submariners train in Russia?

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Do Viet submariners train in Russia?



I believe both in Russia and India.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Do Viet submariners train in Russia?


The submariners or our men in dark dress receive initial training in Russia, combat in India and hunting exercise in Vietnam seas

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## Viet

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/31/opinion/combat-nurses-and-donut-dollies.html?_r=0

Heather Stur

VIETNAM '67 JAN. 31, 2017

Joyce Denke was 19 years old when her fiancé, Cpl. David Ives, received his orders for Vietnam. It was early 1967, and he had only six months left in the service. The young couple, who lived in Temple, Tex., just south of Waco, decided not to let the war dampen their excitement about their future life together, and they started making plans to get married when he came home in November.

Photo




Nurses with wounded American soldiers as they prepare to depart from Vietnam. Credit Bettman, via Getty Images

After just seven weeks in Vietnam, Ives was killed in action on April 23, 1967, at the age of 20. Ms. Denke still has the last letter he wrote to her, dated April 19, 1967. He signed it, “my very deepest love, Dave.”

Ives’s death inspired Ms. Denke to join the American Red Cross and go to Vietnam. She wanted to do something to honor his service, and so in 1970 she deployed with the Red Cross as part of its Supplemental Recreational Activities Overseas program. It was one of several ways American women participated in the war.

The Vietnam War story is a tale of combat: walking point, ambushes, booby traps, seeing friends die, narrowly escaping death. Too often, though, our idea of “combat” is male-centered — we think about the men firing the weapons, flying the planes and taking casualties. We forget that thousands of women also played a central role in that story.

Military nurses, Women’s Army Corps personnel and civilians who served with the Red Cross regularly saw the consequences of combat. For nurses, and to some degree for S.R.A.O. women like Ms. Denke, dealing with combat was their job. Nurses treated soldiers’ physical wounds, and Red Cross women worked to boost the morale of troops, tending to their emotional wounds.

Photo




A Red Cross worker with servicemen in Vietnam. Credit Larry Ray/American Red Cross


Women were not subject to the Vietnam-era draft, but thousands volunteered. For some women, the war offered an opportunity to travel and postpone marriage and motherhood, still the expected roles for young women in the 1960s. Some military women offered to go to Vietnam because they wanted to support the war effort or to see for themselves what was really happening on the ground. Others enlisted in the military for college and employment benefits after recruiters promised they would not be sent to Vietnam.

The Red Cross had sent teams of women overseas to work with troops since World War II. They served coffee and donuts, which earned them the nickname “Donut Dollies.” In 1965, fearing the impact on troop morale of what was already looking to be a long war, Defense Department officials asked the Red Cross to establish an S.R.A.O. program in Vietnam. From 1965 through 1972, nearly 630 women served in Vietnam through the program. Some staffed recreation centers on large bases where servicemen could shoot pool, listen to music, read, play games, write letters, or sit and talk. Others traveled, usually by helicopter, to fire support bases in remote areas where troops waited to go into battle. S.R.A.O. women traveled in pairs and brought with them games, snacks, soda and juice.

In the pre-departure training session, Red Cross instructors told the women that they were meant to be a “touch of home” for the troops, a reminder of wives, girlfriends, mothers and sisters. They should be the girl next door — cute, friendly and caring. Not sexual. Their powder-blue dresses projected a perky innocence but were impractical in Vietnam’s heat, dust and mud. Most of the women were in their early 20s, a few years older than the average enlisted man.

Smiling was a job requirement for Donut Dollies, so they had to compartmentalize their own fear and sadness about the war. Many grew close to the men they worked with. Emily Strange, a Donut Dolly who was stationed in the Mekong Delta with the Ninth Infantry Division and Mobile Riverine Force, became friends with a soldier named Michael Stacy. She had become close with Stacy because they both played guitar, and they often strummed folk tunes together. But after he died in a helicopter crash in March 1969, she realized that she needed to put distance between herself and the guys she worked with. So she stopped learning their names, and stopped becoming their friends.

Long after the war, she says she believed that there were probably guys she had encountered whose names went onto the Vietnam Wall. But she would not have to face the pain of knowing for sure. It was Ms. Strange’s job to make lonely, frightened soldiers feel better, and she had to show up and do her job despite the fear and isolation she herself felt. She called it putting on her “Eleanor Rigby” face that she kept in a jar by the door.

Of the military women who served in the war, the majority, about 5,000, did so through the Army Nurse Corps. They were there from the beginning: As the historian Kara Dixon Vuic has shown, the Army began deploying nurses to Saigon in 1956 to train Vietnamese nurses. As the war deepened, they had the double duty of treating the physical wounds of servicemen, and sometimes Vietnamese civilians, and offering an emotional salve to injured and dying troops. Some nurses held men as they cried out for their parents and took their last breaths. They broke the news that a man would never walk or see again. Literally and figuratively, nurses carried wounded servicemen across the threshold from combat to a drastically altered life, or death.

Some nurses wore perfume because it reminded their patients of home. In a military hospital in a war zone, it was at once utterly incongruous and a desperately needed bit of normalcy. Lynda Van Devanter, a nurse whose memoir, “Home Before Morning,” was the inspiration for the television drama “China Beach,” wore ribbons in her hair to uphold the feminine image her patients expected and needed. At the same time, she suppressed her emotions and steeled herself to cope with the mental burden of being soothing and pretty to broken and dying men.

Linda Pugsley was a 22-year-old registered nurse working at Boston City Hospital when she joined the Air Force in 1967. She went through basic training and flight school and was commissioned a second lieutenant. At the time, she had no political feelings about the Vietnam War, but she wanted to help take care of American servicemen who were injured there. She figured she could handle it, with good reason: A weekend shift at Boston City Hospital usually included gunshot and stab wounds, car wrecks and other sorts of bloody trauma.

Nothing could have prepared her for Vietnam, though. The varieties of wounds, the constant low roar of injured, maimed and dying men, the thrum of helicopters bringing in still more wounded men, at times it almost became too much. Like Ms. Strange, Ms. Pugsley eventually stopped learning the names of her patients as a coping mechanism.

After nurses, the next largest number of servicewoman who went to Vietnam deployed with the Women’s Army Corps. Like nurses, the first WACs went to Vietnam to train personnel in South Vietnam’s Women’s Armed Forces Corps. About 700 WACs served in the war, mostly in clerical jobs, but that did not shield them from combat.

Photo




Recent college graduates joined the Red Cross to serve refreshments and present recreational programs to American servicemen in Vietnam. Credit Larry Ray/American Red Cross


Linda McClenahan grew up in Berkeley, Calif., and joined the WAC after her high school bus was rerouted one day because of an antiwar protest. She worked in the Army’s communications center from 1969 through 1970, and one of her jobs was to process casualty reports. She often was one of the first to read the names of men who were killed in action. Lt. Col. Janie Miller, a career WAC who served in Korea and Vietnam, managed an Army mortuary in Saigon. She rotated her staff through every three months because of the work’s emotional toll. When Pinkie Houser, a WAC who volunteered for Vietnam in 1968, lost her commanding officer in battle, she processed his records and sent his personal effects to his family. It was one of the hardest things she had to do during the war.

Combat, that traumatic, life-shattering, experience of war, remains central to the American memory of the Vietnam War. Women who served in Vietnam were small in number compared with the men who served, but because of that, their exposure to combat and its consequences was concentrated. They were there to help lighten the burden of servicemen, but they had to be so much to so many, without any release for themselves.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnamese fishermen reportedly captured by Indonesia in Vietnam’s waters *

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/39475...edly-captured-by-indonesia-in-vietnams-waters

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 02/10/2017 






*Vietnamese authorities are urgently looking for a way to assist a group of local fishermen who were reportedly arrested by Indonesia authorities while operating in Vietnam’s waters.*

The fishing boat BV 4771 TS was detained by Indonesian authorities while sailing just off the southern Vietnamese province of Ba Ria- Vung Tau on Wednesday afternoon.

Pham Trung Ton, 50, co-owner of the ship from Long Dien District, Ba Ria- Vung Tau, stated on Thursday that he had reported the incident to the provincial border guard office.

According to Ton, the fishermen began their journey on Monday, before being arrested by an Indonesian vessel with serial number 354 in Vietnam’s waters at 06040’00” North and 1060 51’00” East.

The boat was carrying nine crew members, including 44-year-old captain Nguyen Van Nham.

Captain Nham made a phone call on Wednesday evening following his arrest, Ton said, adding that he has been unable to contact the ship since Thursday.

During an interview with _Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper, an official from the Ba Ria- Vung Tau Border Guard Office confirmed that if the location provided by Ton was accurate, the fishermen were indeed arrested in Vietnam’s waters.

The location is about 15 nautical miles away from the Vietnam- Indonesia maritime border, the official elaborated.

The situation has been submitted to higher authorities for prompt assistance in bringing home the fishermen, he added.


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## Viet

there is a ancient proverb in Vietnam:* dân giàu, nước mạnh*_. _rich people, strong country.

the opposite is true, too. when we are poor and weak, we are trampled by everybody, by every hooligan. but there is hope. today in the news. the consulting company PWC assumes if VN grows on average of 5.1 pct per year, we would reach GDP PPP at $1.3 trillion in 2030, and $3.17 trillion in 2050. if the growth rate is higher, the goal is reached with shorter time span. I hope the government loosens all unnecessary restrictions to business, so the companies have more rooms to expand.

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## Viet

Military installations against potential assaults from sea and air

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## Viet



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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnamese fishermen reportedly captured by Indonesia in Vietnam’s waters *
> 
> http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/39475...edly-captured-by-indonesia-in-vietnams-waters
> 
> TUOI TRE NEWS
> 
> UPDATED : 02/10/2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnamese authorities are urgently looking for a way to assist a group of local fishermen who were reportedly arrested by Indonesia authorities while operating in Vietnam’s waters.*
> 
> The fishing boat BV 4771 TS was detained by Indonesian authorities while sailing just off the southern Vietnamese province of Ba Ria- Vung Tau on Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> Pham Trung Ton, 50, co-owner of the ship from Long Dien District, Ba Ria- Vung Tau, stated on Thursday that he had reported the incident to the provincial border guard office.
> 
> According to Ton, the fishermen began their journey on Monday, before being arrested by an Indonesian vessel with serial number 354 in Vietnam’s waters at 06040’00” North and 1060 51’00” East.
> 
> The boat was carrying nine crew members, including 44-year-old captain Nguyen Van Nham.
> 
> Captain Nham made a phone call on Wednesday evening following his arrest, Ton said, adding that he has been unable to contact the ship since Thursday.
> 
> During an interview with _Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper, an official from the Ba Ria- Vung Tau Border Guard Office confirmed that if the location provided by Ton was accurate, the fishermen were indeed arrested in Vietnam’s waters.
> 
> The location is about 15 nautical miles away from the Vietnam- Indonesia maritime border, the official elaborated.
> 
> The situation has been submitted to higher authorities for prompt assistance in bringing home the fishermen, he added.



hmm 354 is pennant number for KRI Oswald Siahaan, one of our retrofitted Van Speijk class


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## Svantana

madokafc said:


> hmm 354 is pennant number for KRI Oswald Siahaan, one of our retrofitted Van Speijk class







here 354 pennant


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## Bennedict

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnamese fishermen reportedly captured by Indonesia in Vietnam’s waters *
> 
> http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/39475...edly-captured-by-indonesia-in-vietnams-waters
> 
> TUOI TRE NEWS
> 
> UPDATED : 02/10/2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Vietnamese authorities are urgently looking for a way to assist a group of local fishermen who were reportedly arrested by Indonesia authorities while operating in Vietnam’s waters.*
> 
> The fishing boat BV 4771 TS was detained by Indonesian authorities while sailing just off the southern Vietnamese province of Ba Ria- Vung Tau on Wednesday afternoon.
> 
> Pham Trung Ton, 50, co-owner of the ship from Long Dien District, Ba Ria- Vung Tau, stated on Thursday that he had reported the incident to the provincial border guard office.
> 
> According to Ton, the fishermen began their journey on Monday, before being arrested by an Indonesian vessel with serial number 354 in Vietnam’s waters at 06040’00” North and 1060 51’00” East.
> 
> The boat was carrying nine crew members, including 44-year-old captain Nguyen Van Nham.
> 
> Captain Nham made a phone call on Wednesday evening following his arrest, Ton said, adding that he has been unable to contact the ship since Thursday.
> 
> During an interview with _Tuoi Tre_ (Youth) newspaper, an official from the Ba Ria- Vung Tau Border Guard Office confirmed that if the location provided by Ton was accurate, the fishermen were indeed arrested in Vietnam’s waters.
> 
> The location is about 15 nautical miles away from the Vietnam- Indonesia maritime border, the official elaborated.
> 
> The situation has been submitted to higher authorities for prompt assistance in bringing home the fishermen, he added.


There's been a huge ID military (army, navy, airforce) presence in Natuna islands since chinese intrusion 2 years ago and the navy are patrolling that area non stop, perhaps there's a mistake in identifying foreign fishing vessel. hope this issue can be solved peacefully.

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## Carlosa

Bennedict said:


> There's been a huge ID military (army, navy, airforce) presence in Natuna islands since chinese intrusion 2 years ago and the navy are patrolling that area non stop, perhaps there's a mistake in identifying foreign fishing vessel. hope this issue can be solved peacefully.



Yes, we all know about that, I don't think anything serious will develop from this situation.

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## Aqsuperman

Navy exercise, from shore batteries to torpedoes.

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## Viet

Bennedict said:


> There's been a huge ID military (army, navy, airforce) presence in Natuna islands since chinese intrusion 2 years ago and the navy are patrolling that area non stop, perhaps there's a mistake in identifying foreign fishing vessel. hope this issue can be solved peacefully.


Yes I hope too. That is very regrettable.

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## Viet

*Emperor, empress of Japan to meet Vietnamese wives of ex-Japanese soldiers*

February 10, 2017 (Mainichi Japan)





In this Dec. 23, 2016 file photo, Emperor Akihito, left, waves to well-wishers at the Imperial Palace on the occasion of his birthday, as Empress Michiko looks on. (Mainichi)


TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko will meet the Vietnamese wives and children of former Japanese soldiers during their first trip to the country from Feb. 28, the Japanese government said Friday.

The imperial couple will be making a weeklong tour to promote international goodwill that will also take them to Thailand to mourn the late King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

The planned meetings with the wives and children of the former soldiers in Hanoi on March 2 reflect the 83-year-old emperor's hopes for peace. He has traveled to former World War II battlegrounds on past trips, including to the Philippines last year, to mourn those who fell in the war.

Of the Japanese troops deployed to French Indochina during the war, an estimated 600 remained in what is now Vietnam after Japan's surrender in August 1945, according to the agency.

Many of them joined the Viet Minh, led by Ho Chi Minh, the founder of the country, and fought against French colonial rule in the First Indochina War between 1946 and 1954.

Half of them were killed fighting in the war or died of illness, according to the agency.

Vietnam was separated into north and south under the 1954 Geneva Agreement, which brought an end to the war, at which time most of the Japanese soldiers returned home.

Many of the soldiers had married local women and had children, but they were not allowed to bring their families to Japan. The number of their children is estimated at several hundreds and many of them faced discrimination because of their ethnic background.

In other events in Vietnam, the imperial couple will meet with President Tran Dai Quang on March 1 and attend a banquet sponsored by the president, the agency said.

They will also stay in the ancient city of Hue in central Vietnam from March 3, where they will meet members of the Japan Overseas Cooperation Volunteers and other Japanese living there.


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## Carlosa

*Lt. Gen. Hal Moore dies; depicted in Vietnam War film ‘We Were Soldiers’*

SATURDAY, FEB. 11, 2017, 4:09 P.M.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/feb/11/lt-gen-hal-moore-dies-depicted-in-vietnam-war-film/

In this Thursday, Jan. 29, 2004, file photo, retired Lt. Gen. Hal Moore, of Auburn, Ala., salutes the crowd during a standing ovation at the state Capitol during the Spirit of Alabama Awards in Montgomery, Ala. Moore, co-author of “We Were Soldiers,” was one of several recipients of the award. Moore died on Friday, Feb. 10, 2016. He was 94. (Jamie Martin / Associated Press)
By Chevel JohnsonAssociated Press

Retired Lt. Gen. Harold G. “Hal” Moore, the American hero known for saving most of his men in the first major battle between the U.S. and North Vietnamese armies, has died. He was 94.

Joseph Galloway, who with Moore co-authored the book “We Were Soldiers Once … and Young,” confirmed Saturday to the Associated Press that Moore died late Friday in his sleep at his home in Auburn, Alabama.

Galloway said Moore, his friend of 51 years, died two days shy of his 95th birthday.

“There’s something missing on this earth now. We’ve lost a great warrior, a great soldier, a great human being and my best friend. They don’t make them like him anymore,” Galloway said.

Moore was best known for his actions at the 1965 Battle of Ia Drang, where he was a lieutenant colonel in command of the 1st Battalion, 7th Cavalry Regiment. His actions were later reflected in the movie “We Were Soldiers” in which actor Mel Gibson portrayed Moore. The book tells what happened to virtually every trooper involved in the 34-day campaign and the climactic four-day battle in which 234 Americans died at landing zones X-Ray and Albany in November 1965.

Galloway, a former war correspondent for United Press International, said Moore was “without question, one of the finest commanders I ever saw in action.”

“Those of us who survived Landing Zone X-Ray survived because of his brilliance of command. I think every one of us thought we were going to die at that place except Hal Moore. He was certain we were going to win that fight and he was right,” Galloway recalled.

Galloway and Moore wrote a second book, “We Are Soldiers Still,” which he said grew out of a journey back to the battlefields of Vietnam 25 years later. “We went back and walked those old battlefields. At the end of the day, Hal Moore and Col. Nguyen Huu An, the North Vietnamese commander, stood in a circle in the clearing and prayed for the souls of every man who died on both sides.”

He said the two shared an “instant brotherhood that grew out of combat.”

“When we were discussing the book contract with a lawyer/agent, he asked to see the contract between me and Hal Moore, and Hal Moore said `I don’t think you understand. This isn’t just a matter of money. We have trusted each other with our lives in battle and we have no contract before that.’ I absolutely agreed.”

On a Facebook page managed by Moore’s family, relatives said he died on the birthday of his wife, Julia, who died in 2004 after 55 years of marriage.

“Mom called Dad home on her day,” the statement said. “After having a stroke last week, Dad was more lethargic and had difficulty speaking, but he had always fought his way back.”

Before serving in Vietnam, Moore graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point and then commanded a battalion in the newly formed air mobile 11th Air Assault Division at Fort Benning.

Born in Bardstown, Kentucky, he served in the U.S. military for 32 years.

Galloway said the family has tentatively scheduled a religious service Friday in Auburn and a memorial service at the National Infantry Museum at Fort Benning Army Base in Columbus, Georgia.


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## Carlosa

*Laos: A lesser-known disaster in the Vietnam era*
*http://pilotonline.com/news/military/laos-a-lesser-known-disaster-in-the-vietnam-era/article_3891f29c-970d-539d-b3b3-e7657d7ebfd4.html*






The struggle for Indochina lasted three decades and caused massive bloodshed and physical destruction in three countries: Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Vietnam was always the heart of the conflict, the site of the heaviest fighting and dying, the place where first French and then American planners invested the bulk of their resources. So the literature on Vietnam is enormous and growing. Still, the disparity is jarring: Next to that mountain of books, there’s barely a molehill on the war as waged in Laos and Cambodia.

All the more welcome, then, to see Joshua Kurlantzick’s “A Great Place to Have a War: America in Laos and the Birth of a Military CIA.” Here we get an informative and well-researched overview of the covert war the United States waged in Laos between 1960 and 1975, one that involved both the recruitment and training of a local anti-communist fighting force led by Hmong tribesmen and the launching of a bombing campaign of awesome size. The U.S. purpose: to tie down the forces of North Vietnam and their Laotian allies the Pathet Lao, and to destroy communist supply lines that moved men and materiel along the Ho Chi Minh Trail in eastern Laos en route to South Vietnam.

The numbers give a sense of the scope. From 1964 to 1973, the United States dropped some 2 million tons of ordnance on Laos, the equivalent of one planeload every eight minutes, 24 hours a day, for nine years. It made Laos, per capita, the most bombed country in human history. In 1969 alone, the United States dropped more bombs on Laos than it did on Japan during all of World War II. All told, some 200,000 Laotians were killed in the war – about a tenth of the country’s population. Most were civilians. Nor did the end of the fighting in 1975 stop the killing; over the next four decades, unexploded cluster bombs would kill 20,000 Laotians and maim thousands more.

It was a secret war, run substantially by the CIA, under the code name Operation Momentum. A principal early player was Bill Lair, a clandestine operative who drew up a plan to train and arm the Hmong to fight the Pathet Lao and the North Vietnamese. Kurlantzick gives us a compelling portrait of this soft-spoken man “with the bristly buzz cut and the thick Clark Kent glasses who spoke fluent Lao with a Texas accent” – the quintessential quiet American.

Lair believed fervently that anti-communist Laotians could win the struggle for their country as long as they and not Americans led the fighting, and that the United States could avoid the colonialism tag as long as it did not attempt to take over the territory. He pinned his hopes on Vang Pao, an ambitious and ruthless Hmong officer and another central figure in the book. Over time, as senior leaders – including William Sullivan, the U.S. ambassador in Vientiane, and Ted Shackley, the CIA station chief – relied more and more on massive use of American airpower, in particular to cut the Ho Chi Minh Trail, Lair grew disillusioned, certain that the bombing was killing civilians and that the Hmong could never achieve lasting military success against the superior training, arms and motivation of the North Vietnamese and the Pathet Lao.

According to Kurlantzick, Lair’s misgivings fell on deaf ears among his superiors. The aerial bombardment continued to intensify, and Hmong fighters under Vang Pao were sent into increasingly ferocious battles. Upon entering office, President Richard Nixon and his national security adviser, Henry Kissinger, while caring little about Laos and its people, believed that stepped-up bombing would be “an effective way to bludgeon North Vietnam and its allies in Laos into agreeing to a peace deal for all of Indochina.” By the end of 1969, American aircraft were conducting about 300 sorties per day over Laos. Never mind that there were now fewer targets to hit, a great many having been obliterated. Most of the time, leaders in the Royal Lao government were not consulted before the attacks.

The bombing was on occasion willfully random. In early 1970, the book tells us, American pilots routinely released bombs over Laos without locating a particular target, simply because they could not find a suitable target in North Vietnam and did not want to return to their base in Thailand with bombs still on board. 

In the end, the shadow war in Laos ended in defeat. The United States ceased the bombing and ultimately cut off financial assistance to its Hmong allies. In 1975, South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos fell to communist forces.

It’s a harrowing story, and Kurlantzick tells it well, even if he’s occasionally shaky on the details. He errs in saying the Viet Minh did not sign the 1954 Geneva Agreements and misstates the number of U.S. military advisers in South Vietnam at the time of John F. Kennedy’s death, and he offers no evidence for his dubious claim that Kennedy “repeatedly” told aides he would not tolerate the loss of South Vietnam on his watch.

The author’s loose approach to chronology leads on occasion to confusion and repetition. In the main, however, his choices about what to cover are sensible, his assessments persuasive. One puts the book down with a deeper, richer understanding of this sordid chapter in the history of American interventionism.

The title of the book, “A Great Place to Have a War,” turns out to be wholly apt (and grotesque). For in the minds of many within the CIA, the war in Laos was a rousing success, a low-cost way of putting intense pressure on the North Vietnamese. In this way, Kurlantzick argues, Operation Momentum was an archetype for the CIA paramilitary operations of more recent times – “and a new way for the president to unilaterally declare war and then secretly order massive attacks.”

Richard Helms, CIA director during the height of the operation, later lauded the agency’s “superb job” in Laos, a sentiment echoed in a classified CIA retrospective. The analysis paid scant attention, Kurlantzick acidly notes, to the war’s effects on Laotians. He quotes William Sullivan, who told an interviewer many years later that the air war over Laos caused him “no personal anguish.”

Contrast this assessment with that by Barack Obama, who in September 2016 became the first sitting president to visit Laos. “Villages and entire valleys were obliterated,” Obama remarked in Vientiane, after announcing a major increase in American funds to clean up unexploded ordnance left behind from the war. “Countless civilians were killed. And that conflict was another reminder that, whatever the cause, whatever our intentions, war inflicts a terrible toll, especially on innocent men, women and children.” The time had come, Obama said, to pull the secret war out of the shadows. Indeed, and Kurlantzick’s book represents an important step in that direction.

_Logevall is a professor of international affairs and history at Harvard University. His book “Embers of War: The Fall of an Empire and the Making of America’s Vietnam” won the 2013 Pulitzer Prize for history._


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## Viet

a reposting but still worth to repeat. Vietnam submarine attack squadron is complete. In addition to torpedos, anti aircraft missiles and sea mines, Vietnam attack submarines can fire 4 different types of Kalibr cruise missiles thru 533mm torpedo tubes:

- 3M-54E: antiship missile, range 300km, speed Mach 2,9 during final approaching to target, 200kg armor piercing warhead

- 3M-14E: land attack missile, range 275km, 400kg warhead

- 91RE1: anti submarine missile, range 50km

- 91RE2: anti submarine missile, range 40km

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## Viet

the upcoming state visit of Japan Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko will be the greatest political event of the year. oh more, of the century. as far as the memory works, never before has a Japan Emperor visited Vietnam. Empress Michiko looks beautiful when she was young, and she remains very asian.






comparing to Vietnam´s empress nam phuong


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## sairagon



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## Carlosa

India says in talks with Vietnam for first missile sale

REUTERS/TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 02/16/2017 09:32 GMT + 7






*BENGALURU, India -- India is in talks to sell short range surface-to-air missiles to Vietnam, the head of India's defence research agency said on Wednesday, in what would be its first transfer of such weapons to the Southeast Asian country.*

India has been helping the Vietnamese military with training and patrol vessels, but a further deepening of ties with missile sales could draw criticism from China that has been locked in a territorial dispute with Hanoi in the East Vietnam Sea.

New Delhi is currently talking to a number of countries for sales of its surface-to-air Akash missiles, said S. Christopher, chairman of state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The move is in line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi's push to establish India as an arms exporter.

"We are talking to countries, one of them is none other than Vietnam," he told a news conference on the sidelines of an air show where the DRDO is showcasing its missile programmes and other key projects, including a home-grown light combat fighter.

Christopher did not provide any details of how many Akash missile batteries the government planned to supply Vietnam.

Vietnam is in the midst of a quiet military buildup that analysts say is designed as a deterrent, to secure its 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone as China grows more assertive in staking its claims in the East Vietnam Sea.

Experts say Vietnam is in the market for fighter jets and more advanced missile systems, in addition to the kilo-class submarines it has bought from Russia.

India, which is also sparring with China over a border dispute, has in the past considered the sale of its Brahmos supersonic missile with a range of 290 kms to Vietnam and has been steadily helping Hanoi beef up its defences.

Last year, Modi announced a $500 million credit line to Vietnam to buy defence equipment, on top of a $100 million given previously to help it buy patrol boats. The two sides have also agreed for training of Vietnamese air force pilots to operate Su-30 Russian fighter planes.


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## fadine

Today is February 17

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## Viet

one of VN´s most important defence partners has one of the most powerful women of the diplomatic corps: Israeli Ambassador to Vietnam Meirav Eilon Shahar. will we see the first step of a comprehensive missile defence system. Israli State President Rivlin is scheduled to visit Việt Nam in March.


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## Aqsuperman

So........we have them already ? :v https://sputniknews.com/asia/201702171050789254-vietnam-israel-missiles/

"The author writes, citing information provided by the Stockholm-based International Peace Research Institute, that an unspecified number of Python-5 missiles have been supplied to Vietnam"


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## Nike

Aqsuperman said:


> So........we have them already ? :v https://sputniknews.com/asia/201702171050789254-vietnam-israel-missiles/
> 
> "The author writes, citing information provided by the Stockholm-based International Peace Research Institute, that an unspecified number of Python-5 missiles have been supplied to Vietnam"



Part of Spider SAM i suppose


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Part of Spider SAM i suppose


Yes some people talk of possibilities of installing python missile on Su fighter jets. But I think the russian expert is right: it makes little sense to install israeli missile on a russian jet. Two different systems. Vietnam jet is well armed by r73 missile.


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## Viet

Since decades in service, still no sign for retirement: Tuyria class torpedo boat







Also, on paper Vietnam possesses a respectable number of tanks: 2,500 medium and light tanks. However, they have seen their peak some time ago. It is not saying they can't inflict any serious damage to an enemy ground army.


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## Star Expedition

Vietnam worries too much about the outside.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam's Got a New South China Sea Strategy*




The Vietnam People’s Navy is shifting from sea denial to counter-intervention.

Koh Swee Lean Collin
February 16, 2017

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/vietnams-got-new-south-china-sea-strategy-19470?page=show

In 1287, Gen. Omar Khan of the Yuan Dynasty led a sizeable invasion force, including numerous war junks, against Dai Viet (present day Vietnam). With battle-hardened Mongols forming the vanguard, it seemed as if the campaign would be a walkover for China. But a naval battle the following year proved otherwise. In the estuary of the Bach Dang River near Ha Long Bay, Dai Viet general Tran Hung Dao repeated the feat accomplished by the earlier, celebrated general Ngo Quyen against the Southern Han Chinese invaders, back in the year 938.

Following Ngo’s approach, Tran planted iron-tipped stakes in the river’s northern distributaries—Chanh, Kenh and Rut—and waited until high tide to lure the Mongol fleet into the shallow waters. When the tide turned, those Mongol war junks were impaled upon those stakes. The much smaller Dai Viet war canoes then swarmed around the trapped Mongol fleet and their crews hurled “mud oil” grenades—little ceramic bottles filled with naphtha and sealed with betel-nut husk, which also acted as a fuse when lit—at the immobile war junks, setting them and their hapless crews ablaze. The Battle of Bach Dang saw grievous losses to the Yuan invasion fleet.

But unlike the battle in 938, which contributed to the end of the first Chinese domination over Dai Viet, the naval victory in 1288 did not alter the bilateral relationship—the Tran Dynasty accepted Yuan suzerainty until the latter’s demise.

The two naval battles at Bach Dang, and contemporary examples in the French Indochina Wars and the Vietnam War, as well as the brief but bloody Sino-Vietnamese border war in the late 1970s, highlighted Vietnamese ingenuity in conducting asymmetric warfare against a stronger foe. Yet the Battle of Bach Dang constituted a rare example of how the Vietnamese could pull off what were essentially land-based tactics in the maritime realm. Also of note is the fact that the naval battles at Bach Dang were fought in shallow waters close to the Vietnamese shores, instead of the open waters of the South China Sea, where Mongol war junks could optimize their combat performance.

No wonder, then, that in March 1988 the Vietnamese suffered a defeat at Chinese hands during a clash in the open waters of the disputed Spratly Islands. The Chinese navy proved more than a match for the Vietnamese, unaccustomed to fighting naval battles in the open waters, who found themselves outnumbered and outgunned. That battle was an attempt to stop the Chinese from encroaching upon what Hanoi claimed as sovereign territory in the Spratlys, and with the Vietnamese forces extended so far from the Vietnamese coast and shorn of quick and substantial reinforcements, the outcome of that battle was quick and decisive. Retaking those features, forcibly snatched from Vietnamese hands following the naval skirmish, was out of the question for Hanoi’s political and military leaders.


The Vietnamese were cognizant of their naval limitations. There was no way they could repeat their ancestors’ feat at Bach Dang against the Chinese. Hence, it has been taken for granted—almost by conventional wisdom—that in view of the gaping and still growing naval asymmetry between the Chinese and Vietnamese, Hanoi must adhere to a sea-denial strategy. Essentially, sea denial envisages denying or disrupting the adversary’s access to maritime areas of interest, while denying the one practicing this strategy free use of the same space. Wu Shang-su, for instance, has argued that Vietnam, standing little chance against Chinese military aggression, has no choice but to adopt a sea denial strategy. Furthermore, he added, a sea-denial strategy fits well within the broader ambit of Hanoi’s post–Cold War policy, emphasizing such principles as independence, non-alliance and defensive defense.

There is also a fiscal imperative, given that Vietnam continues to prioritize its socioeconomic development set in motion under the “Doi Moi” (Renovation) reforms, under way since the early 1990s (also a time that saw a downsizing in the manpower of the People’s Army of Vietnam). “The state budget is still limited while we have to invest in many significant areas such as transport infrastructure, resources for socio-economic development, welfare for the people who served the country well, healthcare and education,” said then defense minister Gen. Phung Quang Thanh in December 2014, who added, “so investment in defense should be taken gradually and be suited to our capabilities. We have two parallel tasks: protecting and building the country. We do not underestimate any of them but if we focus too many resources on defense, we will lack investment in development. Because of a lack of investment in development, we will lack future resources for investment in defense.”

Yet it would be misleading to view the Vietnamese as fatalistic. They have long recognized the limits of a traditional sea-denial approach, and thus have sought to enhance their strategy to forestall Chinese military aggression in the South China Sea.

As Hanoi’s navy has just received its final Russian-built Kilo-class diesel-electric submarine, and is on the cusp of operationalizing a complete submarine squadron within 2017, the image of a sea-denial-centered Vietnamese naval strategy is still in place. While it is true that a submarine, especially a conventionally powered one, is commonly associated with sea denial, it is necessary to look beyond this attribute in the Vietnamese case. All six boats are not only equipped for sea denial in the traditional sense—torpedoes and mines, for example—but they also possess Russian-made Klub-S sea-launched land-attack cruise missiles (SLCM) that can hit targets as far away as three hundred kilometers—well within the Missile Technology Control Regime, which places restrictions on exports of certain offensive missile systems to non-signatory states.

Long-time Vietnam military watcher Carlyle Thayer has opinedthat Vietnam’s SLCMs would be employed against Chinese ports and airfields, such as the Sanya naval base on Hainan Island, rather than cities arrayed along the southern Chinese mainland coast. This counterforce role would still fit well within Hanoi’s strategically defensive deterrent strategy, but acquiring such an offensive capability would certainly depart from a sea-denial approach. There is no way the Vietnamese can hope to forestall Chinese aggression without the means to raise the costs for Beijing—the potential destruction wreaked upon its forward-deployed naval forces in Sanya being one such instance.

If anything, Russia’s feat during its campaign in Syria in late 2015 demonstrated that it is feasible for small naval forces to conduct limited, expeditionary force projection. The Kilo boat _Rostov-on-Don_ became the first conventionally powered submarine to launch SLCMs in deep, inland penetration strikes. However, the Russians could manage this by leveraging on their extensive command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR) capabilities, such as GLONASS satellite navigation, to allow the missiles to fly smoothly over wide swathes of the Middle Eastern land mass. The Vietnamese has a fledgling C4ISR program, focusing on unmanned aerial vehicles and remote-sensing microsatellites. Its current satellite-based targeting capability relies on commercially obtained satellite imagery—far from useful to carry out inland strikes.

Nonetheless, this shortfall would not hamper Vietnam’s counterforce ability against coastal targets. Without the strategic depth and naturally formed terrestrial features to shield it, China’s Sanya naval base is exposed to overwater missile strikes, which do not require C4ISR targeting capabilities like those for deep penetration attacks. And Hanoi is only keen to enhance the ability to punish Beijing and raise the costs of its aggression, beyond those submarines it has acquired. Referring to the Kilos, back in September 2014 a military official in Hanoi remarked that “they are not our sole weapon, but part of a number of weapons we are developing to better protect our sovereignty.”

So, to that end, Vietnam has made further moves to put into effect a more robust counter-intervention strategy that signals a departure from a traditional sea-denial approach. For example, its marines have trained for “island recapture” in the Spratlys—unthinkable back in 1988. In May 2016, Vietnam was reportedly negotiating with Russia the purchase of a third pair of Gepard 3.9–class light guided-missile frigates. What is so special about this purchase is that Hanoi wants these new ships to be armed with the Klub SLCMs. One recalls that the Russian Navy’s Caspian Flotilla corvettes—in the same size category as the Gepard 3.9s—along with the submarine _Rostov-on-Don_ had proven that small surface warships are capable of launching SLCM attacks. Hanoi apparently caught on, and became inspired by Moscow’s feat.

The Vietnamese may not be oblivious to the fact that, like the battle of Bach Dang in 1288, any foreseeable war in the South China Sea with Beijing would result in a preordained strategic victory for the latter. But Hanoi has gradually shifted away from a traditional sea-denial strategy to one that would raise the cost of Chinese aggression. The completion of its submarine squadron in 2017 is just the first major step towards this direction. Vietnam’s modern-day versions of war canoes and “mud oil” incendiary antiship weapons now carries a wholly new significance.

_Koh Swee Lean Collin is research fellow at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, based in Singapore. He specializes in research on Southeast Asian naval affairs. He would like to thank Robert Haddick, Visiting Research Fellow at the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies, for his comments and suggestions._

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## Viet

*Rep. Stephanie Murphy Introduces a Bill to Keep Stephen Bannon Out of the National Security Council*

Aimée Lutkin
2/02/17 1:05pm







On Wednesday, Rep. Murphy from Florida introduced legislation to depoliticize the National Security Council, which has become an apex of many anxiety attacks since white nationalist Stephen Bannon was appointed to a “Strategic Initiatives Group” inside of it.

_Orlando Weekly_ reports that, if passed, the bill would mean the removal of Bannon from this position. The bill’s two provisions require that “no individual whose ‘primary responsibility is political in nature’ is assigned to the council or authorized to attend NSC meetings,” and that either the Director of National Intelligence or the Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff have a standing invitation to attend Principal Committee meetings. Both those roles were hobbled alongside Bannon’s appointment. In a statement, Rep. Murphy said:

“As a former national security specialist at the Department of Defense and a current member of the House Armed Services Committee, I can tell you the last place partisan politics belongs is in national security. It is reasonable and commonplace for presidents to decide who attends security meetings, but I strongly believe the Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff should have a standing invitation to attend all Principals Committee meetings given their importance to national security and expertise. My bill will help depoliticize national security so that we never jeopardize the safety and security of the American people.”

During her speech, she also referenced Bannon directly, saying, “Mr. Bannon’s role in the administration has a strong political component. Indeed, it appears unprecedented for a political counselor so deeply enmeshed in domestic politics to serve as a permanent member of the NSC.”


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## Viet

Never underestimate a women. She is apparently not a friend of Steve Bannon. Nor Donald Trump. she has grown up since her family arrival in the United States from Vietnam in 1979. Stephanie is the infant.

she is elected to the Congress, representing Florida’s 7th Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives. in addition she is a member of the Armed Services Committee, the legislative body that oversees the US armed forces.


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## Silent Knight

Woops.


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## Carlosa

*Philippines: Vietnamese ship attacked; 1 dead, 6 abducted*



TERESA CEROJANO
Associated PressFebruary 20, 2017 https://www.yahoo.com/news/philippines-vietnamese-ship-attacked-1-dead-6-abducted-095408873.html

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — Gunmen attacked a Vietnamese cargo ship off the Philippines' southern tip, killing a Vietnamese crewman and abducting six others including the vessel's captain, the Philippine coast guard and the ship's owner said Monday.

Coast guard spokesman Armand Balilo said the Vietnamese coast guard reported that the MV Giang Hai, with 17 crewmen on board, was attacked by pirates Sunday night about 20 miles (31 kilometers) north of Pearl Bank in Tawi-Tawi, the Philippines' southernmost province.

Personnel of the Philippine coast guard, police and marines found the ship had drifted near the province's Baguan Island. Upon boarding the vessel, they found 10 Vietnamese sailors alive and one dead.

Pham Van Hien, head of the safety department of Pham Hai shipping company, the owner of the cargo ship based in Vietnam's northern port city of Hai Phong, said the captain was among those abducted. The attack occurred while the vessel was transporting 4,500 tons of cement from Indonesia to the Philippines, he said.

The gunmen destroyed some of the ship's equipment, but the 10 remaining crew members managed to sail the ship, Hien said.

He said the company had informed the IMB Piracy Reporting Center in Malaysia to seek its help in securing the return of the kidnapped crew members.

Balilo said pursuit operations are underway, but the location of the abducted crewmen and the identity of the attackers remain unknown.

Abu Sayyaf militants and allied gunmen are suspected of being behind previous sea assaults in the area, including an attack last November on another Vietnamese cargo ship whose captain and five crewmen were also kidnapped. They are believed to be held by the militants in the southern province of Sulu, where the kidnappers are holding at least 20 foreign and local hostages in different jungle locations.

An Abu Sayyaf commander known as Albhasy Misaya has been suspected of leading the kidnapping of the Vietnamese crewmen last year, but the military has not monitored any sign so far indicating the Vietnamese abducted late Sunday were also targeted by the Sulu-based militants.

Ransom kidnappings of Malaysian, Indonesian and Vietnamese crewmen have continued despite heightened coastal and border security.

___

Associated Press writer Tran Van Minh in Hanoi, Vietnam, contributed to this report.


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## Viet

By Dale A. Dye
*“Good Morning (Again), Vietnam.”*
02/20/2017 01:35 pm ET




PHOTO CREDIT: JOHN RIEDY
_(l to r) E.Grimm, R.Lavers, R.Bayer, M.Stokey, F.Wiley, D.Dye, Missing: S.Berntson_


An emergency room physician circulated among the survivors. His diagnosis was quick and easy: Terminal culture shock. If the moment had been some jangled parsec in the psychedelic sixties he’d have called it a bad acid trip, but the Doc knew where and when he was even if the shocked Veterans kept claiming it couldn’t be Vietnam, the war-ravaged turbulent country they’d left behind nearly 50 years before.

It started the moment they began to unwind from 17 hours jammed inside a turbo-jet tin can that roared out of Los Angeles, through Hong Kong and into Danang, headquarters of their old 1st Marine Division where most of them served as Combat Correspondents in the bloody gut of the Vietnam War, at various times ranging from 1965 to 1970. Giving them the bored bureaucrat stare at passport control were guys in familiar olive-green uniforms festooned with red collar tabs.

The last place most of them had been so close to uniforms like that was up on the Demilitarized Zone—at places like Con Thien, The Rockpile, and Khe Sanh. Back then, the uniformed Vietnamese were carrying AK-47s rather than rubber immigration stamps.

On the bus ride through throngs of mini-bikes and motor scooters toward a five-star resort, most of the returning vets kept their greying heads on a swivel, unable to completely relax despite constant reassurances that they were safe from ambush. “Traffic still sucks,” commented former Corporal Rick Grimm, one of the Combat Correspondents who often navigated Danang streets choked with cyclos and military convoys, “but at least they now have traffic lanes and some drivers actually pay attention to them.”

Early in the morning of their first full day as Combat Tourists, the loose gaggle of eight Marines and one lonely former dogface who did his time far to the south in the Mekong Delta with the U.S. Army’s 9th Infantry Division, found themselves in full flashback mode as they rode up to Monkey Mountain in a convoy of six salvaged American military Jeeps.

Danang metropolis, or what they could see of it through a blanket of morning fog, spread below them. In deep water harbors and offshore in what the U.S. Navy used to call Dixie Station, there was not a warship in sight. Sampans and a few of what rural Vietnamese fishermen called basket boats bobbed sedately in the South China Sea. Atop the mountain, famed for rampaging hordes of rock apes, they searched in vain for remnants of the AFVN station that used to broadcast from the heights of Monkey Mountain, while retired Captain Dale Dye entertained with impromptu lines from “Good Morning, Vietnam.”

It was all a little too civilian, a little too civilized for the Combat Correspondents who came expecting to see…well, expecting to see at least a remnant or two of the war they fought and wrote about for the Marine Corps. “Don’t these people realize we fought a war here?” asked retired Sergeant Steve Berntson who was badly wounded in Hue during the Tet 1968 fighting. Well, no. Actually, they don’t, as most of the current Vietnamese hustling and bustling through the streets of Danang were born after the war in their country ended.

In desperation, the tour group, sponsored on the return to their battlefields by The Greatest Generations Foundation out of Denver, Colorado, hustled to a local Vietnamese military museum, where a diminutive female—in a crisp uniform and unsoldierly western eye shadow and lip gloss—invited them to view exhibits of captured American (running dog imperialist) and South Vietnamese (puppet army) equipment. Naturally, the lights were out in the sector of the museum that contained information on American forces who were based in or around Danang. And nobody could find the switch to remedy that.






PHOTO CREDIT: JOHN RIEDY
_MIG21 outside the Danang Museum_


So, it was time to retire to the hotel bar for stories about the war, the way we remember it. Plans are firm for tomorrow’s expedition south to what little remains of the An Hoa combat base, Go Noi Island, and the infamous Arizona Territory. More from there soonest.


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## Viet

*'Iron Skin' police recruits in Vietnam take a hammering and have concrete slabs smashed on their bodies in world's most gruelling training exercises *

Police recruits in Vietnam have been filmed taking part in training exercises 
Some of the gruelling tests include having slabs smashed over their bodies
Aspiring officers are then told to walk over glass carrying huge bottles of water

Published: 09:12, 21 February 2017 | Updated: 09:18, 21 February 2017

Some of the world's toughest police officers have been filmed taking part in a series of shocking tests - including walking over glass and having giant slabs smashed over their bodies.

The gruelling training exercise, called 'Iron Skin Performance', sees the recruits embark on a number of frightening challenges. But aspiring officers were filmed bravely stepping up and taking everything which was thrown at them at the national Police Training Centre in Hanoi, Vietnam.

One man was seen lying down on a bed of nails before having a giant slab smashed over his body by an officer using a sledgehammer.







A young man was lying across two chairs when he had four bricks smashed over his body by an officer who was using a sledgehammer 













Two female recruits were filmed having bricks and concrete slabs smashed over their bodies. Other men had piles of bricks placed on their necks before they were smashed during the intense training exercise. During the video, a young man was lying on a bed nails when an officer dropped three knives onto his body.

Some officers had to walk over shards of glass placed on the ground while they were holding giant bottles of water. Others had to carry fellow recruits on their shoulders as they walked across the glass. 



















Another recruit was laying on top of a bed of nails and had knives dropped on top of his stomach

Meanwhile, female recruits had concrete bollards smashed over their bodies after they were placed on top of their legs and arms. 

Towards the end of the clip, a young man bent a metal bar around his neck to show the watching officers his strength.

If successful, the young men and women will go on to become Vietnamese police officers - who pride themselves on being some of the toughest in the world. 



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4244542/Recruits-Vietnam-hammering-walking-glass.html#ixzz4ZL0KWuCp 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> *'Iron Skin' police recruits in Vietnam take a hammering and have concrete slabs smashed on their bodies in world's most gruelling training exercises *
> 
> Police recruits in Vietnam have been filmed taking part in training exercises
> Some of the gruelling tests include having slabs smashed over their bodies
> Aspiring officers are then told to walk over glass carrying huge bottles of water
> 
> Published: 09:12, 21 February 2017 | Updated: 09:18, 21 February 2017
> 
> Some of the world's toughest police officers have been filmed taking part in a series of shocking tests - including walking over glass and having giant slabs smashed over their bodies.
> 
> The gruelling training exercise, called 'Iron Skin Performance', sees the recruits embark on a number of frightening challenges. But aspiring officers were filmed bravely stepping up and taking everything which was thrown at them at the national Police Training Centre in Hanoi, Vietnam.
> 
> One man was seen lying down on a bed of nails before having a giant slab smashed over his body by an officer using a sledgehammer.
> 
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> A young man was lying across two chairs when he had four bricks smashed over his body by an officer who was using a sledgehammer
> 
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> 
> Two female recruits were filmed having bricks and concrete slabs smashed over their bodies. Other men had piles of bricks placed on their necks before they were smashed during the intense training exercise. During the video, a young man was lying on a bed nails when an officer dropped three knives onto his body.
> 
> Some officers had to walk over shards of glass placed on the ground while they were holding giant bottles of water. Others had to carry fellow recruits on their shoulders as they walked across the glass.
> 
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> 
> Another recruit was laying on top of a bed of nails and had knives dropped on top of his stomach
> 
> Meanwhile, female recruits had concrete bollards smashed over their bodies after they were placed on top of their legs and arms.
> 
> Towards the end of the clip, a young man bent a metal bar around his neck to show the watching officers his strength.
> 
> If successful, the young men and women will go on to become Vietnamese police officers - who pride themselves on being some of the toughest in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4244542/Recruits-Vietnam-hammering-walking-glass.html#ixzz4ZL0KWuCp
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



They should stop these circus gimmick. The whole world knows it's surface area and weight distribution. 

They should invest more in actual training, ones that are useful. This is embarrassing to say the least.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Is Getting Closer To Its Rival China Because Neither Side Trusts Trump*
Ralph Jennings , 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphje...he-us-sails-into-a-disputed-sea/#4b096b673349

Less than a year ago Vietnam was counting on U.S. support in building up a defense against China. Vietnam and China have clashed over land for centuries. Now the Asian neighbors bitterly dispute much of the sea closest to their shores, with China taking more control as the world’s No. 2 economy and No. 3 military power. U.S. ex-president Barack Obama, probably hoping to contain China, lifted a decades-old ban on arms salesto Vietnam last year and from 2014 to 2016 his government spent $46 million on upgrading Vietnam’s military. 

U.S. President Donald Trump has not followed up with an arms-for-Vietnam policy, and last month he pulled the United States out of the Trans Pacific Partnership trade deal that was set to benefit Vietnam as a major exporter. Trump’s government sent a U.S. aircraft carrier to the South China Sea Saturday and that’s the one Vietnam disputes with China. America has no claim to the 3.5 million-square-km sea prized for seafood, fuel and shipping lanes. Chinese media call the carrier’s movement a "military threat." 

Vietnam isn’t elated either. It doesn’t know what Trump is up to. 





An anti-China activist holds a poster saying '74 (Vietnamese) martyrs live forever' during a rally marking an anniversary of the 1974 naval battle between China and then-South Vietnamese troops over the Paracel Islands, in Hanoi on January 19, 2017. (HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/Getty Images)

So for now Vietnam is veering closer to China, Asia political observers say. And things keep looking up for the unlikely duo.

China wants to talk one-on-one with all four Southeast Asian countries with competing claims to the sea. That’s its way of appeasing countries after losing a world arbitration court verdict in July. The verdict says China lacks a legal basis to claim 95% of the sea, which stretches from Taiwan southwest to Singapore. Vietnam and China happened to do $66 billion in trade in 2015, forming one of Vietnam’s top import-export relationships as it hopes to grow the economy on added-value manufacturing. 

Hanoi still sticks by its claims in the Paracel and Spratly island chains in the sea. A lot of Vietnamese resent China for reclaiming land in those chains and building up a military presence, which analysts say Hanoi will keep trying to counter over the years ahead.

Five of China's holdings in the Paracel chain can hold multiple naval or civilian vessels, the Asian Maritime Transparency Initiative says in a Feb. 8 report based on updated findings. Four others include smaller harbors and a fifth is being built on another islet, the think tank said. Five islands support helipads and and a full helicopter base sits on one, it said.

But the Vietnamese government is used to Chinese activity in the island chains. It has kept quiet since the think tank's report came out. China took control over the Paracel chain in a battle with what was then South Vietnam in 1974. Today's Hanoi reportedly made arrests during a demonstration last month on the 43rd anniversary of that takeover.

“The Trump administration's unpredictability introduces new variables into Vietnam's policy considerations for the South China Sea,” said Jonathan Spangler, director of Taipei-based South China Sea Think Tank. “The Vietnamese government should ensure that U.S. policymakers clearly understand Vietnam's importance for maintaining regional stability while continuing to emphasize mutual economic benefits in its discussions with Beijing.”

Compared to the still new U.S. administration, China feels comfortably predictable. It’s got unwavering one-party rule like Vietnam. Senior leaders met in September and again last month to talk about maritime cooperation. The two have exchanged defense ministry visits as well over the past three years, says Carl Thayer, emeritus professor of politics at The University of New South Wales in Australia. They abide by a fishery agreement now, and both sides say oil exploration could follow. 

That would be a big shift from the last major incident in 2014, when Vietnamese and Chinese vessels rammed one another after Beijing authorized placement of a Chinese oil rig near the Gulf of Tonkin where both have interests.


“I suspect the greatest uncertainty for Vietnam is not exactly what China is doing,” Thayer says. “It’s what the Trump Administration is doing.”

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## Carlosa

*Russia will Supply Two "Gepard-3.9" Frigates to Vietnam in mid-2017*

21 February 2017





A pair of Gepard 3.9 of the Vietnamese Navy (photo : sputnik)

ABU DHABI - RIA Novosti. Russia will supply two "Gepard-3.9" frigates to Vietnam in mid-2017, he told RIA Novosti in the exhibition of arms IDEX-2017 CEO of the company-manufacturer data vehicles Zelenodolsk Shipyard Renat Mistahov.

"In mid-2017 we plan to complete all their trials and transfer to the customer." "The first couple in the framework of the contract we have set in 2011-2012, today we are ready to ship to the customer a couple more" Cheetahs, - he said.

Frigates "Gepard-3.9" are designed to handle air, underwater and surface adversary of surface and underwater situation, setting minefields, maintenance and protection of convoys, guarding and patrolling the state borders, the fight against smuggling, poaching and piracy, as well as assistance ships in distress, search and rescue people.

According to the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau, the frigates "Gepard-3.9" with a displacement of about 2200 tons are equipped with modern missile and artillery, aircraft, anti-submarine weapons and radio, as well as mine and anti-weapons, means of external and internal ship communication, broadcast, visual monitoring and audio communications.

Previously CEO of the Zelenodolsk Shipbuilding Plant named after AM Gorky Renat Mistahov reported that the third "Cheetah" will be sent to Vietnam in August, and the fourth - in September 2016. The first pair of frigates type "Gepard-3.9" was handed over to the Navy in Vietnam in 2011. The parties are currently discussing the construction of a third pair of ships of this type for the Vietnamese Navy.

(RIA Novosti)

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## Viet

The Daily 202
*The Daily 202: Trump’s new national security adviser literally wrote the book on Vietnam*


By James Hohmann February 21 at 10:29 AM




Donald Trump congratulates his new National Security Adviser, Army Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, after making the announcement at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach yesterday. (Kevin Lamarque/Reuters)

_With Breanne Deppisch_

*THE BIG IDEA: When you don’t tell the truth about little things, you cannot be trusted to tell the truth about big things.*

As a candidate, Donald Trump attacked Barack Obama dozens of times for playing too much golf. "I'm going to be working for you,” Trump told supporters at a rally last year. “I'm not going to have time to go play golf.”








Since taking office four weeks ago, Trump has made six trips to the golf course. Sensitive to charges of hypocrisy on this issue, the White House has maneuvered to minimize coverage of these outings and to downplay how much time the president spends on the links.

A White House spokeswoman told multiple reporters on Sunday that Trump had played just “a couple of holes.” Then his partner, Rory McIlroy, told a golfing publication that they’d done a full round of 18. And there were pictures. The spokeswoman then acknowledged that she had misinformed the press corps. Trump, she said, had “intended” to golf just a couple of holes.

*H.R. McMaster, whom Trump named yesterday as his new national security adviser, understands how corrosive even half-truths can become. *After graduating from West Point and fighting with distinction in Desert Storm, he went to the University of North Carolina to earn a doctorate in history. *Using declassified documents and interviews to trace the origins of the quagmire in Vietnam, McMaster became convinced that the generals of that time caved to political pressure and supported a war strategy they knew could never prevail. He turned his dissertation into a book called “Dereliction of Duty,” which came out in 1997*, when he was a major.

It has developed a cult following among young officers, and it merits a closer study as he takes on one of the most important jobs in the government.

McMaster’s narrative focused on a handful of key decisions that were made from 1963 to 1965. “*The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field,” he concluded. “It was lost in Washington, D.C., even before Americans … realized the country was at war.* … The disaster in Vietnam was not the result of impersonal forces but a uniquely human failure, the responsibility for which was shared by President [Lyndon] Johnson and his principal military and civilian advisers. *The failings were many and reinforcing: arrogance, weakness, lying in the pursuit of self-interest, and, above all, the abdication of responsibility to the American people.*”






On Aug. 10, 1964, President Lyndon Johnson speaks in the East Room as leaders of Congress stand by his desk for a ceremonial signing of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. (John Rous/AP File)


*Johnson was focused on winning a full term in 1964 and didn’t want to do anything that would jeopardize his chances. After beating Barry Goldwater in a landslide, he feared that a public debate about Vietnam would undermine his Great Society agenda at home.* “The president and the secretary of defense deliberately obscured the nature of decisions made and left undefined the limits that they envisioned on the use of force,” McMaster argued.

*The book lamented that “the president’s fixation of short-term political goals” prevented the administration from dealing adequately with the complexities of the situation.* “LBJ’s advisory system was structured to achieve consensus and to prevent leaks,” he wrote. “Profoundly insecure and distrustful of anyone but his closest civilian advisers, the president viewed [the Joint Chiefs of Staff] with suspicion. When the situation in Vietnam seemed to demand military action, Johnson did not turn to his military advisers to determine how to solve the problem. He turned instead to his civilian advisers to determine how to postpone a decision.”

*McMaster portrays Robert McNamara, a former president of the Ford Motor Company who had become secretary of defense, as foolish.* He said that he viewed Vietnam “as another business management problem” and “forged ahead oblivious to the human and psychological complexities of war.” “McNamara and his assistants in the Department of Defense were arrogant,” McMaster wrote. “They disparaged military advice because they thought that their intelligence and analytical methods could compensate for their lack of military experience and education. Indeed military experience seemed to them a liability because military officers took too narrow a view and based their advice on antiquated notions of war.”






Soldiers of the 25th Infantry Division take shelter in a crater caused by a bomb from a B-52 in the Ho Bo Woods, 25 miles northwest of Saigon, on Sept. 29, 1967. (Dang Van Phuoc/AP)


*The man in charge on the ground in Vietnam also comes across as far too pliant:* Gen. William “Westmoreland’s ‘strategy’ of attrition in South Vietnam was, in essence, the absence of a strategy. The result was military activity (bombing North Vietnam and killing the enemy in South Vietnam) that did not aim to achieve a clearly defined objective,” he argues.

*His book goes deep in the weeds on process. *McMaster, two decades ago, described National Security Council meetings under Johnson as “pro forma affairs in which the president endeavored to build consensus for decisions already made.” Johnson, in fact, made many of his most fateful choices at Tuesday lunch meetings with three of his civilian advisers. The military brass weren’t invited, which led to communication problems.






In the Situation Room in 1967, Lyndon Johnson met with Robert McNamara and Dean Rusk. (File)


*McMaster referred to the Joint Chiefs during Vietnam as “the five silent men”* *because they did not challenge the president or alert congressional leaders when Johnson was not being forthcoming about what the escalation in Southeast Asia would actually entail.* The chiefs recognized that the Johnson approach was fundamentally flawed, but then they failed to effectively articulate their objections or alternatives. Part of the problem was rivalry between the branches, McMaster explained. The admiral in charge of the Navy used his leverage with the White House to make sure his service retained control of Pacific Command, for example.

*A watershed moment came in July 1965.* McMaster documented how Johnson had misrepresented the mission of U.S. forces, understated the number of troops that the military had requested and misled Congress about the cost of actions that had already been approved. “The president was lying, and he expected the Chiefs to lie as well or, at least, to withhold the whole truth,” McMaster wrote. “Although the president should not have placed the Chiefs in that position, the flag officers should not have tolerated it when he had.” But tolerate it they did. (You can download the full book on Amazon for $3.)

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Russia will Supply Two "Gepard-3.9" Frigates to Vietnam in mid-2017*
> 
> According to the Zelenodolsk Design Bureau, the frigates "Gepard-3.9" with a displacement of about 2200 tons are equipped with modern missile and artillery, aircraft, *anti*-submarine weapons and *radio*, as well as mine and anti-weapons, means of external and internal ship communication, broadcast, visual monitoring and audio communications.


that is new: the Gepard will have anti radiation missiles aboard. what type can be?


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## Viet

*Vietnam's accused assassin: From keen singer to killer*

23 Feb 2017 REUTERS AND ASSOCIATED PRESS





Doan Thi Huong, posted glamour-type photos on her Facebook page called 'Ruby Ruby', and many of her Facebook friends were Koreans.


Malaysia accuses N.Korean embassy in assassination
The estranged half-brother of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un died soon afterwards.

Huong was described by police as an "entertainment outlet employee", but they did not give details of where she had been employed or what her immigration status was.

*TALENT SHOW*

Among the links on another Facebook account, which the family also said featured pictures of Huong, was one to the page of the Vietnam Idol talent show. This account was in the name "Bella Tron Tron Bella" - Chubby Bella. There were no posts after November.

A woman bearing a close resemblance to Huong sang on the show as contestant number 67816 on June 3, 2016.

Facial recognition tools give a match to the pictures released by Malaysian police of Huong in custody.






The Facebook page belonging to the accused assassin shows her in an 'LOL' shirt.


The contestant gave Nam Dinh as her home town - the same as Huong's according to passport details from the Malaysian police - but her name was given as Dinh Thi Khuyen.

She left the show in the first round.

A member of the Vietnam Idol casting team declined to comment on the appearance and its spokeswoman did not immediately return a request for comment.

"Can I sing you a song tonight?" she wrote in a Facebook post on March 24 last year. "Reply the fastest and put your phone number in the comment. I will call and sing for you."

Family members mostly work the rice paddies around their home in Nam Dinh, in the Red River Delta southeast of Hanoi.

Huong only visited occasionally, they said, and she was vague about where she had been. She is now 28.

Her father, who fought for the North in the Vietnam War, lost part of his leg in the fighting. Vietnamese authorities had been in touch since the arrest, he said.

"They only say they will support Huong as she is Vietnamese, but did not tell me if she is really a suspect," he told Reuters.

"Even though I am her father I cannot control things that happened when she is out there. I cannot know," said Doan Van Thanh, 63, who works as a security guard in the local market.

Family members said they only found out she was abroad from the media. They had thought she was working in Hanoi.

So far, Vietnamese officials have only confirmed to media that investigations continue and they are in touch with Malaysia.

*KOREAN LINK*

A South Korean police official said Huong visited the holiday destination of Jeju Island in November for four days and they were looking into what she may have been doing there, but declined to provide further details.

Of 65 friends on the "Ruby Ruby" Facebook page, 27 have Korean names. Fifty six of the friends are men.

One status update on the first Facebook account was posted in the Korean language on March 23 last year, saying "I love you, I miss you", although it did not use words that would be expected for someone familiar with the language.

Most photographs in the accounts are of Huong attending parties, in hotel rooms or portraits. In many she blew kisses to the camera.






Ms Huong of Vietnam (left) and Indonesian Siti Aisyah are accused of wiping poison on the face of Kim Jong Nam immediately before his death. (Photos via Royal Malaysian Police)


Cosmetics, clothing and fast food shops were among Huong's likes on Facebook. Her place of education was given as Harvard, although the family did not believe that was true.

On Jan 3, Huong posted a picture of a boarding pass from Hanoi to Kuala Lumpur. Family members said Huong was last at home in Nam Dinh from Jan 25-29.

Huong also appears to feature in another online video. Posted last April, it is on the channel of a Vietnamese YouTuber who gets women to kiss him in the street.

The woman in that video matches the one in the latest police photo from Malaysia.

In the video she is shown giggling before a kiss with the man on a park bench.

In the photo, she wears no makeup and stares uncertainly towards the camera.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> that is new: the Gepard will have anti radiation missiles aboard. what type can be?



I think its a typo, I wouldn't think much about it.


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## Silent Knight

A Vietnamese troops with Safran JIM-LR Long-range multifunction cooled infrared binoculars.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I think its a typo, I wouldn't think much about it.


No problem at all. It is worth waiting for the arrival of our fleet defence destroyers


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## Carlosa

*FROM WAR TO PEACE AND NOW PROSPERITY IN RURAL VIETNAM*
Three generations of a steel-working dynasty from Bach Ninh province illustrate how the country has changed in the past 80 years

BY KARIM RASLAN

23 FEB 2017

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/business/article/2073335/war-peace-and-now-prosperity-rural-vietnam





Three generations of Tran Van Quy’s family celebrate his traditional Vietnamese longevity ceremony. Handout photo

Now 82 years old, Tran Van Quy speaks haltingly about the past.

“I have lived through two wars – against the French and the Americans. The fighting started when I was only eight years old so I never went to school.

“We suffered more with the French; they killed men and raped women. The Americans were different. We never saw them. They just dropped bombs.

“But the French burnt down our family home. Thirty-two people were killed by the cannons they fired into the village. Kids don’t really know anger but they know fear and I was very afraid.”





Tran Van Quy, 82, with his wife, Pham Thi Mac, in their home in Da Hoi. They have lived through two wars – against the French and the Americans. Handout photo

Born into a well-to-do, land-owning family, Tran remembers his pre-war childhood as an idyllic time – running through his family’s large home, looking after the water buffaloes and eating rice every day.

“However, when the revolution came our lands were seized. I was very angry at that time. I wrote letters to officials but they never responded. So I became determined to buy back our properties. The first was in 1968, a piece of land close to where our workshop is now.”





The archway of Da Hoi village located in the old town. Photo: Karim Raslan

Poorly implemented land reform in the mid-1950s was to bring terrible suffering to much of Vietnam’s fertile Red River valley, depressing harvests and wiping out granaries as farmers cut back on planting rice.

Tran shakes his head and his voice almost cracks: “There were no jobs and we were very poor. But at least our village, Da Hoi, had a tradition of metalworking even though the production was slow and laborious. “That’s why I decided to study metallic engineering.”





The village of Da Hoi has a tradition of metalworking. Steel facilities and products are seen across the small town. Photo: Karim Raslan

Located some 20km from Hanoi, Da Hoi has long been famous for its iron workshops interspersed between rice fields and vegetable farms.

However, over the years and especially after the arrival of the mammoth Samsung manufacturing plant in nearby Bac Ninh, the entire community has boomed. Indeed, the expansion has been so rapid that the village now seems ragged, perpetually cloaked in dust and dirt. Da Hoi’s transformation has come at a steep cost.

*How good luck for Vietnam’s gamblers could force Cambodian casinos to fold*
Tran barely acknowledges the pollution as he talks about his business: “We used to ship the final product to Hanoi. We made window bars, steel for construction and bicycle parts. We also made metal grilles for shop houses. Now, because there is so much construction, we’re all very busy.”

Though frail, he remains a determined man, as tough as the steel bars he’s been producing for the past four decades. Tran is extremely proud of his family’s journey back to prosperity, saying: “I have 14 children. They’re all rich and CEOs. The ‘merits’ have been returned to us.” Pausing, he adds: “Yes, the good has come back.”





Tran Thi Loi in her steel production facility which produces construction materials from iron ingots. The machine beside her cost USD350,000.Photo: Karim Raslan

His daughter, Tran Thi Loi, 45, lacks the raw confidence of her father. With a slightly anxious expression, she came of age amid the deprivations of the 1980s as Vietnam struggled with the inefficiencies of a command economy. Mere survival was already a triumph. Having completed her secondary education – still a rarity in those days – she quickly returned to the family business. “I’ve never had big dreams. I’m used to a tough life. All I’ve ever wanted to do is to put food on the table.”

Electrification in the 1990s was a game-changer. Still, competition with Taiwan and China remain fierce for small Vietnamese businesses. Taiwanese and Chinese products are good, but their prices are high – this is where the Southeast Asian challenger seeks to undercut them.





Yeen, Mrs Loi’s daughter, studies Spanish at Hanoi University and is the first in her family to attend university. Photo: Karim Raslan

In contrast, Loi’s daughter Yeen, who is 18 years old and studies Spanish at Hanoi University, is as ebullient and determined as her mother is cautious.

Speaking at a trendy coffee shop just outside the campus, Yeen brims with barely contained energy. She also has a smile so broad and infectious it’s almost heart-stopping: “I’m the first in my family to go to university. I’m very privileged and I’ve received a lot of support from my parents. My mother would like me to go home every weekend but I have other dreams. I want to complete my degree and travel. I have an opportunity to spend nine months in Valladolid [Spain] or Santiago de Chile,” she said.

*The good, the bad and the ugly of Chinese tourists in Vietnam*
“But I love going to the workshop and watching my mother managing everything, talking to her clients and the staff. And then there’s the way the metal is cast and recast into shapes. But best of all is when they pour water onto the hot iron and it pops.”

Yet Yeen is also well aware of the suffering her mother and grandfather have endured. “We really feel the melancholy of those generations. Compared to us, they had it much tougher,” she said.

“But I think now is a good time to be in Vietnam – much better than before. I can pursue my dreams and improve myself.”

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## Viet

It is reported SPYDER anti aircraft missiles were fire tested, though no picture is available.

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## Viet

Not sure, I think they are paratroopers.


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## fadine

Viet said:


> Not sure, I think they are paratroopers.
> 
> View attachment 379523


Vietnam Peacekeeping troops.

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## Viet

Industry
*Israel's IMI Systems expands presence in Vietnam*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry 
24 February 2017

State-owned Israeli company IMI Systems (formerly Israel Military Industries) has established a dedicated presence in Vietnam to support the company's growing footprint in the Southeast Asian market, Vietnam's Ministry of National Defence (MND) has said.

Following talks in Hanoi on 22 February between Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Vietnam's deputy defence minister, and Yitzhak Aharonovich, chairman of IMI Systems, the MND said in a press release that the Israeli company has set up a "permanent team in Vietnam for timely collaboration with partners in Vietnam".

Citing Aharonovich, the MND added that through this increased presence IMI Systems is looking to expand co-operation with Vietnam "in the areas in which the group has the strength, contributing to the growing defence relationship between the two countries".


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## Carlosa

*Suspected Chinese missile launch pads put Vietnam on alert*
By VnExpress February 23, 2017 | 10:04 pm GMT+7
http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/su...launch-pads-put-vietnam-on-alert-3546032.html




Chinese dredging vessels are purportedly seen in the waters around Mischief Reef in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea in this still image from video taken by a P-8A Poseidon surveillance aircraft provided by the United States Navy May 21, 2015. Navy/Handout via Reuters/File Photo

*U.S. reports claim China has constructed military bases on artificial islands in disputed waters. *
Vietnam is looking to clarify media reports that claim China has nearly completed several missile launch sites on artificial islands in the East Sea, internationally referred to as the South China Sea.

The structures are believed to be designed to house long-range surface-to-air missiles.

Vietnam has called on other parties to act responsibly and refrain from taking military actions that may worsen the situation in the region, foreign ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said in a statement on Thursday.

Any construction activities on the islands and reefs by other parties in the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagos without Vietnam’s permission are illegal, he added.

Binh said the country has full legal grounds and historical evidence to prove its sovereignty over Hoang Sa and Truong Sa.

China has nearly finished building almost two dozen structures on artificial islands in the South China Sea that appear to house long-range surface-to-air missiles, two U.S. officials told _Reuters_.

The development is likely to raise questions about whether and how the United States will respond, given its vows to take a tough line on China in the South China Sea.

"It is not like the Chinese to build anything in the South China Sea just to build it, and these structures resemble others that house SAM batteries, so the logical conclusion is that's what they are for," said a U.S. intelligence official, referring to surface-to-air missiles.

A Pentagon spokesman said the United States remained committed to "non-militarization in the South China Sea", and urged all claimants to take actions consistent with international law.

In Beijing, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said on Wednesday he was aware of the report, but did not say if China was planning on placing missiles on the reefs.

In December last year, Vietnam also raised concerns over media reports that China had installed weapons systems on the artificial islands it had constructed in the area.

In 1974, China took over the Hoang Sa islands. A brief but bloody naval battle with forces of the then U.S.-backed Republic of Vietnam ensued.

Truong Sa is claimed in part by China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.


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## Viet

I wonder what motivates young women to join the army? only young men are obliged by army service, not women. they can join the army on voluntary basis. the pay is hardly a motivation. good, we have an unpredictable and sometimes aggressive neighbor, with tension simmering, some may feel, there is a need to join the army, servicing the nation.


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## Viet



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## frequency

TenLua said:


> They should stop these circus gimmick. The whole world knows it's surface area and weight distribution.
> 
> They should invest more in actual training, ones that are useful. This is embarrassing to say the least.



hahaha, I totally agree. Chinese Shaolin training style are so out of hand. This is a mockery to the real training they should be doing. The Viet Cong are so silly, they believed they won the Vietnam war because of these types of training. But the fact of the matter is that they violated the Paris Peace treaty signed and took advantage of the South during Tet! Which lead them to winning the Vietnam War. Body armor is highly more effective than these silly training they are doing. Skins & bones are no match to a brain.



Viet said:


> *'Iron Skin' police recruits in Vietnam take a hammering and have concrete slabs smashed on their bodies in world's most gruelling training exercises *
> 
> Police recruits in Vietnam have been filmed taking part in training exercises
> Some of the gruelling tests include having slabs smashed over their bodies
> Aspiring officers are then told to walk over glass carrying huge bottles of water
> 
> Published: 09:12, 21 February 2017 | Updated: 09:18, 21 February 2017
> 
> Some of the world's toughest police officers have been filmed taking part in a series of shocking tests - including walking over glass and having giant slabs smashed over their bodies.
> 
> The gruelling training exercise, called 'Iron Skin Performance', sees the recruits embark on a number of frightening challenges. But aspiring officers were filmed bravely stepping up and taking everything which was thrown at them at the national Police Training Centre in Hanoi, Vietnam.
> 
> One man was seen lying down on a bed of nails before having a giant slab smashed over his body by an officer using a sledgehammer.
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> A young man was lying across two chairs when he had four bricks smashed over his body by an officer who was using a sledgehammer
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> Two female recruits were filmed having bricks and concrete slabs smashed over their bodies. Other men had piles of bricks placed on their necks before they were smashed during the intense training exercise. During the video, a young man was lying on a bed nails when an officer dropped three knives onto his body.
> 
> Some officers had to walk over shards of glass placed on the ground while they were holding giant bottles of water. Others had to carry fellow recruits on their shoulders as they walked across the glass.
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> Another recruit was laying on top of a bed of nails and had knives dropped on top of his stomach
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> Meanwhile, female recruits had concrete bollards smashed over their bodies after they were placed on top of their legs and arms.
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> Towards the end of the clip, a young man bent a metal bar around his neck to show the watching officers his strength.
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> If successful, the young men and women will go on to become Vietnamese police officers - who pride themselves on being some of the toughest in the world.
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> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4244542/Recruits-Vietnam-hammering-walking-glass.html#ixzz4ZL0KWuCp
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



hahahaha, man, that is just embarrassing.


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## Viet

frequency said:


> hahaha, I totally agree. Chinese Shaolin training style are so out of hand. This is a mockery to the real training they should be doing. The Viet Cong are so silly, they believed they won the Vietnam war because of these types of training. But the fact of the matter is that they violated the Paris Peace treaty signed and took advantage of the South during Tet! Which lead them to winning the Vietnam War. Body armor is highly more effective than these silly training they are doing. Skins & bones are no match to a brain.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha, man, that is just embarrassing.


no need to say such thing here. The martial arts are something either you like it or hate it. If the latter just move on. As for the rest, Vietnam is united and free of foreign troop presence. She enjoys peace and now prosperity. That is what matters. Everything else is secondary. Yes That is something we all can celebrate, although we all have differences in opinions and worldview. And can keep it. It is not the time to beat a dead horse. That fits to the news yesterday in California, where the republican state senator Janet Nguyen was removed from the parliament floor, when she began to beat a dead ghost from the past.

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## hoangsa74

frequency said:


> hahaha, I totally agree. Chinese Shaolin training style are so out of hand. This is a mockery to the real training they should be doing. The Viet Cong are so silly, they believed they won the Vietnam war because of these types of training. But the fact of the matter is that they violated the Paris Peace treaty signed and took advantage of the South during Tet! Which lead them to winning the Vietnam War. Body armor is highly more effective than these silly training they are doing. Skins & bones are no match to a brain.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaha, man, that is just embarrassing.


it's for domestic consumption.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> no need to say such thing here. The martial arts are something either you like it or hate it. If the latter just move on. As for the rest, Vietnam is united and free of foreign troop presence. She enjoys peace and now prosperity. That is what matters. Everything else is secondary. Yes That is something we all can celebrate, although we all have differences in opinions and worldview. And can keep it. It is not the time to beat a dead horse. That fits to the news yesterday in California, where the republican state senator Janet Nguyen was removed from the parliament floor, when she began to beat a dead ghost from the past.



"no need to say such thing here. The martial arts are something either you like it or hate it. If the latter just move on."

*Take your own advice, Viet! *

Janet Nguyen was right. These Democrats are pro-communism. Of course, they would disagree with Janet Nguyen. Tom Hayden is a terrorist and should be executed and the same with his wife, Jane Fonda.

Kevlar and Graphene bullet proof vest is still better than flesh & bones. There's nothing to be proud about the "Iron Skin". That would be a mass suicide.


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## Viet

frequency, relax bro no reason to explode. If you look again you will realize It is policemen and women that practice and demonstrate iron skin not members of the army. And surely it is a show, for fun if you want it, and not something that is practical on battlefields. I am not a fan of communism. Nor socialism. But there is little reason to glorify Republic of Vietnam.

Because south Vietnam did too little to develop the economy. It produced virtually nothing but imported everything. The economic activities mostly relied on US money. the last south Vietnamese president was probably one of the most incompetent leaders in the history. The army lost Paracels. The army despite having weapons en masse was unable to fight a single battle without US military assistance. What do you think what led to the quick collapse of South Vietnam?

It is over 40 years since the end of the war. It is time to move on. It makes little sense to dig into the past every day. I recently attended a Tet with yellow flag, and everything belonging to it. Not that I feel tired, but I believe there are more out there in the world than just that. Janet Nguyen can stage political rally in public but not in parliament. Because her behavior sheds a bad light on Vietnamese community. Beating a ghost is never a good idea, not because not everyone shares the same idea, but least about beating someone that is long dead.

Tom Hayden was against Vietnam war. Jane Fonda was one of the women that supported the Vietnamese women community in the United States. Without her, the Vietnamese nails industry wouldn't have seen such success that is seen today.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> View attachment 379857
> 
> 
> View attachment 379858



You never close your left eyes when you are aiming down the sight........Why they have to go do that???


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> You never close your left eyes when you are aiming down the sight........Why they have to go do that???


I am not an expert. If you shoot right handed, is it not better to close your left eye, because your right eye will better focus on the line of fire?

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I am not an expert. If you shoot right handed, is it not better to close your left eye, because your right eye will better focus on the line of fire?



Depends. If you are a sport shooter (like ISSF or IPSC) or Miltiary or LEA shooter, or what we called Practical Shooter.

Sport Shooter usually shoot with one eyes close, because that will give you a "straight" vision between the sight and your target. You close your left eyes (or in the Olympic Games case, you blocked vision to one eye using a shield)






See the guy with his left eyes covered?

In practical shooting. (For a Righty) Left eyes uses to compensate the lost of vision when you aim with your right, so you could keep maximum situational awareness. With one eye open, your field of vision is somewhere between 100-120 degree as your eye will be blocked by the nose bridge. With both eyes open, you can reach a 170 degree field of vision. If someone approach you from your left side and your left eyes is closed, then you will not know that guy is coming at you. Since you move alot when you shoot in the military, situational awareness is very important. Also Left eye is used for Night Vision Goggle (Right eye if you are a lefty) Like this






Imagine this guy closes his left eye, it will be pitch dark at night.

That's why in the military, we were taught to have your left eye open when you shoot. In fact, if you were taught in the Special Force, the whole aiming stance are ignored altgether, you learn how to pull your sidearm and shoot, and you do it until you raise your weapon automatically at your eyeline.

These girl were in the military, right

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Depends. If you are a sport shooter (like ISSF or IPSC) or Miltiary or LEA shooter, or what we called Practical Shooter.
> 
> Sport Shooter usually shoot with one eyes close, because that will give you a "straight" vision between the sight and your target. You close your left eyes (or in the Olympic Games case, you blocked vision to one eye using a shield)
> 
> View attachment 380058
> 
> 
> See the guy with his left eyes covered?
> 
> In practical shooting. (For a Righty) Left eyes uses to compensate the lost of vision when you aim with your right, so you could keep maximum situational awareness. With one eye open, your field of vision is somewhere between 100-120 degree as your eye will be blocked by the nose bridge. With both eyes open, you can reach a 170 degree field of vision. If someone approach you from your left side and your left eyes is closed, then you will not know that guy is coming at you. Since you move alot when you shoot in the military, situational awareness is very important. Also Left eye is used for Night Vision Goggle (Right eye if you are a lefty) Like this
> 
> View attachment 380059
> 
> 
> Imagine this guy closes his left eye, it will be pitch dark at night.
> 
> That's why in the military, we were taught to have your left eye open when you shoot. In fact, if you were taught in the Special Force, the whole aiming stance are ignored altgether, you learn how to pull your sidearm and shoot, and you do it until you raise your weapon automatically at your eyeline.
> 
> These girl were in the military, right


Ok however I understand human eyes help one to see an object in 3D and assess the distance to it. If one holds the gun by both hands, both eyes stay open, keeping the gun between or in the middle of the eyes. With or without vision gear. But there is a visual problem if you hold a gun with either right or left hand. There is a conflict between the direction the gun pistol points to and the eyes' 3D vision.

The girls are from the police.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ok however I understand human eyes help one to see an object in 3D and assess the distance to it. If one holds the gun by both hands, both eyes stay open, keeping the gun between or in the middle of the eyes. With or without vision gear. But there is a visual problem if you hold a gun with either right or left hand. There is a conflict between the direction the gun pistol points to and the eyes' 3D vision.
> 
> The girls are from the police.



The answer lies in what you are shooting at, a wooden or paper target in a shooting range or shooting at a 3D object in a 3D environment.

Human eyes interact with surrounding environment, say for example, if you are on a moving car or moving train and look out. It's seems to you the trees and the house outside is moving, not you. And when we are not moving and gauge the distant between you and an object, say an apple 20 ft in front of you. Now. your eyes will adapt. and you will see what is behind the apple. But if you close one eye and focus on an apple itself, then you will see nothing but the apple when you close one eye and aim with the other.

Depth preception is very important in practical shooting, it allow you to see what behind an object, thus allowing your eyes to follow an object. Because human brain uses shadow to chase object, that is why when an object move in front of you very fast, you will see a blur version of that object. As the shadow are overlapping.

If you still don't understand. Try do this

*Stick out your left arm (if you are closing your left eye, right arm if you are closing your right eye) and stick out your index finger. 

Close your left eye and look at that finger

Now move your finger left to right quickly and then come back to left repeatedly.*

You will see a very blurred finger which if it is not your finger, you probably don't know what it is, and your right eye cannot focus on the finger.

*Now open your left eye as well and look at the finger. THen move your finger left to right again at the same pace.*

Now you eyes can focus on the finger and you can see your finger much more clearly.

Since in Police and Military, chances are you are not shooting a stationary object, when an object move, you acnnot gauge the distance, hence you will lose your focus. Now imagine if you at looking at a scope. Which only blur your image more as the intensity and quality magnify.

That is why people shoot at moving target usually have both eyes open. Also the situational awareness stuff I said before.

Oh and you duped me  You ask why girls are joining the military in that post I assume they are millitary


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> The answer lies in what you are shooting at, a wooden or paper target in a shooting range or shooting at a 3D object in a 3D environment.
> 
> Human eyes interact with surrounding environment, say for example, if you are on a moving car or moving train and look out. It's seems to you the trees and the house outside is moving, not you. And when we are not moving and gauge the distant between you and an object, say an apple 20 ft in front of you. Now. your eyes will adapt. and you will see what is behind the apple. But if you close one eye and focus on an apple itself, then you will see nothing but the apple when you close one eye and aim with the other.
> 
> Depth preception is very important in practical shooting, it allow you to see what behind an object, thus allowing your eyes to follow an object. Because human brain uses shadow to chase object, that is why when an object move in front of you very fast, you will see a blur version of that object. As the shadow are overlapping.
> 
> If you still don't understand. Try do this
> 
> *Stick out your left arm (if you are closing your left eye, right arm if you are closing your right eye) and stick out your index finger.
> 
> Close your left eye and look at that finger
> 
> Now move your finger left to right quickly and then come back to left repeatedly.*
> 
> You will see a very blurred finger which if it is not your finger, you probably don't know what it is, and your right eye cannot focus on the finger.
> 
> *Now open your left eye as well and look at the finger. THen move your finger left to right again at the same pace.*
> 
> Now you eyes can focus on the finger and you can see your finger much more clearly.
> 
> Since in Police and Military, chances are you are not shooting a stationary object, when an object move, you acnnot gauge the distance, hence you will lose your focus. Now imagine if you at looking at a scope. Which only blur your image more as the intensity and quality magnify.
> 
> That is why people shoot at moving target usually have both eyes open. Also the situational awareness stuff I said before.
> 
> Oh and you duped me  You ask why girls are joining the military in that post I assume they are millitary


ok good explanation. there is another thing: our eyes (or our brain cells to be precise) are too slow to follow fast moving objects. that is the reason why we see TV as continuing flow of pictures although we actually see 50 still pics per second. the two girls (one holding the AK, one the pistole) are from the police. most other girls are from the armed forces


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## Viet

Politics
*Their parents' lives were defined by war. Now Vietnam's youth are pushing the country toward a new identity*






Next generation in Vietnam. Motorcycles course through downtown Ho Chi Minh City, where coffee roasters and tech startups are now wedged in between noodle soup vendors and bike repairmen.


(L.R. Meyers / For The Times)
*Jessica Meyers*


In front of Ho Chi Minh’s statue and the baroque yellow walls of Communist Party headquarters, they danced.

Strobe lights and bass washed over sweaty young bodies twisting in the tropical night air. The DJ took a selfie with the crowd, and the din on this downtown promenade blended with the roar of motorcycles cruising along the Saigon River.

This is the next generation’s Vietnam, where coffee roasters and tech start-ups wedge in between noodle soup vendors and bike repairmen as the city sidesteps its socialist legacy in a dash toward the future. Two-thirds of the country’s population was born after Saigon fell in 1975. Now they’re helping transform the Communist nation into one of the world’s fastest growing economies, with a hip gravity strong enough to lure back children of emigres who fled to Houston and Orange County.

These young people are creating a new national identity — one filled with capitalistic idealism, responsibility, and a belief that the country offers opportunity that many of their parents won’t acknowledge.

“We’re studying abroad, we’re traveling, we see Western culture and our own culture,” said Thao Dao, the 27-year-old co-founder of Ladan, a company that designs modern Vietnamese clothing and accessories for young adults. “For our generation, it’s time.”

She attended the Fashion Institute of Design & Manufacturing in Los Angeles, but saw her future at home in Vietnam.

Dao and a friend opened their small shop last year up a creaky flight of stairs near one of the city’s oldest markets. They filled it with bamboo purses and elegant pastel riffs on the_ ao dai_, a traditional Vietnamese dress-pant combo.

“You can come back and make a difference,” Dao said.





Dao and Anna Phan returned from college in the U.S. to open Ladan, a company that sells modern Vietnamese clothes and accessories to young people. (L.R. Meyers) (L.R. Meyers / For The Times)


Human Rights Watch ranks its record as “dire.” Officials arrested a high-profile blogger last year who criticized the government’s handling of a chemical spill that left dead fish scattered across beaches.





Bike-sharing apps like uberMOTO are replacing street-corner men who for decades offered cheap motorcycle trips. (L.R. Meyers) (L.R. Meyers / For The Times)


Saigon’s growth has alarmed preservationists who watch the destruction of French colonial buildings and the rise of skyscrapers. Pollution is increasing; income inequality is rising.

“There are energetic people trying to do great things,” said Vu Thanh Tu Anh, research director at the Fulbright Economics Teaching Program here.

“But it’s constrained by the education system, by political constraints…and we have a system which is not responsive enough to the needs of people.”

Although the country is growing faster than most, Vu said, “we’re not close to our potential.”





Hao Tran, left, and Guy Truong are co-founders of Vietcetera, an English-language website that seeks to "tell the untold stories of the new Vietnam." (L.R. Meyers / For The Times)


World Bank will start to phase out the low-interest, lengthy payback loans it gives the country. When this generation nears retirement age, the average lifespan will reach 80, according to the United Nations, up from 73 in 2012.

Le Xuan Loc thinks less about where Vietnam is going than what it still has to achieve.

The 25-year-old pharmacist moonlights as a social activist, and dreams of opening a healthcare clinic in his rural, coastal hometown. He’s helped start a mentoring program for young people to build skills. Obama noticed something in Le that helped explain the new Vietnam, enough to mention him in his speech here.

Le doesn’t brag about the Obama shout-out, although he blushes slightly when it comes up. He blended in at yet another coffee shop, a kid with earphones around his neck sipping a green tea float and talking about hopes for his country.

“Vietnam has potential,” he said. “Why not change it instead of leave?”

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## Aqsuperman

Pictures of Vietnam Militia. Armed with left - over and phased out weapons from the regular force, they are expected to buy time for the regular to mobilize to the scene or act as emergency replacement.

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## Silent Knight

Much butthurt. Many hatred. Such idiocy. WOW.

Also, some new footage from the Air Force and Navy.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Wants Israeli Weapons Systems*
Feb 27, 2017
This post is also available in: 

עברית (Hebrew)

http://i-hls.com/2017/02/vietnam-wants-israeli-weapons-systems/

Vietnam and Israel have been tightening their security cooperation. The president of Vietnam, Mr. Tran Dai Quang, said Israel has become a big partner of Vietnam in the defense field and stressed the important role companies and groups in the defense and technology sectors are playing in both countries. The president was speaking at a reception held for the chairman of the board of IMI Systems Ltd, Mr. Yitzhak Aharonovitch, in Hanoi. “Vietnam and Israel should further promote their cooperation in research & development and technology transfer,” the president added that 

According to IMI Systems’ announcement, the Chairman of IMI Systems updated the president on some projects, where IMI system invested in Vietnam since 1999 and expressed his hope that both countries will work on streamlining the mutual collaboration and high technology knowledge transfer. Aharonovitch stressed that the advanced weapons systems developed and manufactured by IMI Systems correspond to the advanced technology used by the Vietnam army.

President Quang noted that the cooperation between the two countries is consistently growing, especially in the areas of security and defense, including the transfer of technical knowledge. He expressed the hope that relations will be further promoted, especially in training quality personnel in the field of technology.

In 2014, Vietnam acquired the Orbiter-2 unmanned air systems (UAS) to be used as an aerial forward observation unit for its artillery corps, according to local press reports in Vietnam. The Orbiter-2 mini UAS is manufactured by Aeronautics in Israel. Experts said that the Orbiter-2 can supply the artillery units the coordinates of more than one target from 2000 feet. 

The Orbiter- 2B has the unique capability of navigating independently, enabling completion of the mission even if the GPS is jammed or there is no communication. The automatic warning system, which sends alerts regarding any deviation from the mission definitions, gives the operator high-level monitoring and control capabilities that ensure mission success. The UASalso provides interfaced payloads with unique intelligence capabilities and high-level information processing.

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## Viet

Welcome to Vietnam!

Japanese Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko are arriving Vietnam for an official 5 day state visit. Seems both the crown prince and crown princess are coming, too. Interesting.

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## Silent Knight

Commission ceremony of the last two Improved Kilo subs

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam's Energy Exports Could Help Rebuild Ties With China*
Can oil and gas diplomacy be Vietnam’s strategic map to re-establish normal relations with China?

By Quoc-Thanh Nguyen
February 28, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/vietnams-energy-exports-could-help-rebuild-ties-with-china/

To meet its growing need for energy, China needs all its neighbors. Beijing wants to be less dependent on oil from African or Middle Eastern countries, which the Chinese government considers unreliable producers. Yet currently China imports about 1.15 million barrels per day (bpd) of oil from Saudi Arabia, 611.338 bpd from Iran, and 695.148 bpd from Iraq to meet its domestic demands. All indications show that demand will increase over the next years , the International Energy Agency (IEA) estimated China’s consumption of oil would rise to 12.2 million bpd by 2020.

China, the world’s second largest oil consumer, must find a way to ensure a steady supply. There are not many possibilities for Beijing, especially as the country faces its lowest growth rate in more than 25 years and a domestic market showing signs of a slowdown. So far, however, China has made some progress. First, Russia overtook Saudi Arabia as China’s top supplierin 2016, providing 1.02 million bpd. With China able to pay in renminbi and not in dollars, Russian oil is much more attractive for China. Second, China has begun to purchase crude oil from neighboring countries to reduce transportation costs.

In this context, Vietnam has a good card to play with its giant neighbor. With an estimated 4.4 billion barrels of oil reserves, Vietnam will be a significant exporter of energy for years to come. Meanwhile, China’s domestic demand for energy is so large that Beijing must find all possible options to diversify supply, especially with OPEC poised to cut down on production.

Vietnam’s Communist Party leader, Nguyen Phu Trong, visited China in January at the invitation of General Secretary of the Communist Party of China and President Xi Jinping. The two leaders discussed military and security cooperation and both agreed that measures must be taken to forge stronger links between their countries. Economic exchange can provide significant stimulus to speed up that process of reconciliation. Furthermore, Vietnam can use its energy resources as one possible path to re-establish neighborly relations with China.

The gas deal between Vietnamese state-owned energy company PetroVietnam and ExxonMobil last month spotlighted Vietnam’s energy sector. Vietnam’s oil and gas industry is actually in a state of growth after a few years of decline. The third largest petroleum producer in Southeast Asia behind Indonesia and Malaysia, Vietnam is particularly favorable toward international cooperation as means as of scientific exchange — especially because the country does not have the necessary tools or technology to exploit its oil and gas resources by itself. The presence of foreign companies is also a guarantee for stability and security in the area.

Despite territorial disputes between China and Vietnam over islands in the South China Sea, business continues to grow in the energy sector. Even if Beijing was upset about the gas deal between ExxonMobil and PetroVietnam, it is clear that it has no interest in interfering. According to the Vietnam General Department of Customs, Vietnam sold 666,000 tons of crude oil to China for $203 million in March 2016 alone. It is more than likely that these figures will increase over the coming years. Hanoi has recently announced its intention to speed up the exploitation of oil and gas fields in the central and south basins to compensate for the lower production of some older wells. With 630 billion cubic meters (bcm) in proven gas reserves, Vietnam can also supply gas; Chinese gas demand was 192 bcm in 2015.

Due to the 1992 law and the government policy encouraging foreign investment in energy, this sector has grown to represent 13.6 percent of Vietnam’s annual government income. The advantage of Vietnamese oil fields is that they are not far from the coasts and are not very deep. Four main areas are being exploited: Song Hong Basin in the north, Phu Khanh Basin along the central coast, and Cuu Long Basin and Nam Con Son Basin in the south. All together, these fields provide 363.500 bpd of oil and 9.3 bcm of gas each year. According to official sources, 70 blocks in Vietnam’s EEZ and continental shelf are currently being exploited and 19 more in deep-water areas are still un-contracted. Thus Vietnam’s export capacity may clearly be increased over the next years.

Even if Vietnam’s current energy contribution to China is still quite modest considering the total volume of exchanges between both nations, it is a step toward an _entente cordiale_. The recent rapprochement between the Philippines and China forced Vietnam to opt for quiet diplomacy with its neighbor, especially given ASEAN’s failure to address the South China Sea issue. At the same time, a new president and new policies in the United States completely changed the game for the Vietnamese, who have now to consider a future without the U.S. as a partner.

By exporting energy to China, Vietnam helps normalize relations with its giant neighbor. On the other hand, by purchasing Vietnamese oil from offshore fields, China tacitly accepts that Vietnam is investigating and exploiting petroleum from the South China Sea inside China’s nine-dash line. A deal between PetroVietnam and China is a win-win situation.

Another point: the shipping lane along the Vietnamese coast is vital for China energy security. According to Mikkal E. Herbert, “securing reliable energy supplies and shipping to fuel Asia’s prosperity is tightly bound up with the maintenance of freedom of navigation through the South China Sea and Malacca Strait and is a core energy and national security interest for virtually every regional power.” History has taught us that Germany lost World War II due in part to a lack of oil; even now, no superpower can do without oil. Vietnam can leverage China’s energy needs to boost domestic production and, at the same time, re-establish normal relations with its giant neighbor, at least until a lasting solution can be found to resolve South China Sea dispute.

_Dr. Quoc-Thanh Nguyen is researcher at IrAsia, Aix-Marseille University, and holds a Ph.D. in Maritime Studies._

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## Carlosa

*‘Black Holes’ in the South China Sea: Vietnam Commissions 2 New Attack Submarines*
The Vietnamese Navy commissioned the last two of six Russian-made diesel electric attack submarines this week.

By Franz-Stefan Gady
March 01, 2017
http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/blac...-vietnam-commissions-2-new-attack-submarines/

The Vietnam People’s Navy (VPN) held a flag raising ceremony for two new Russian-made Project 636M (improved _Kilo_-class) diesel electric attack submarines at Cam Ranh naval base in Vietnam’s south central coastal Khanh Hoa province on February 28, Vietnam’s Ministry of Defense reports in a press release.

The two submarines — _Da Nang_ and _Ba Ria-Vung Tau — _will join four other Project 636M boats already in service with the VPN’s Submarine Brigade 189 and are the last two subs commissioned as part of a $ 2.6 billion contract (some sources indicate $2.1 billion) with Russia’s Admiralty Shipyards for six diesel-electric attack submarines in 2009.

The flag raising ceremony was attended by Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phu and other dignitaries. The prime minister emphasized the importance of the VPN in raising awareness over the South China Sea territorial disputes and praised the navy’s willingness to defend every inch of Vietnam including its territorial waters.

He also noted that Vietnam seeks no arms race in the region and the deployment of the new submarines does not aim to deter other countries in the region. Furthermore, he stated Vietnam’s desire for a peaceful solution to the South China Sea disputes. Yet, he was also adamant that Vietnam would defend its sovereignty over its continental shelf, its territorial sea, and its islands.

Project 636M submarines, an improved variant of the original Project 877 (_Kilo_-class) design, are specifically designed for operations in shallow waters and are primarily intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine warfare operations. With a crew of 52, the sub has an endurance of 45 days and can reach a submerged top speed of around 20 knots. The Project 636M boats are slightly longer than the original _Kilo_-class and feature an improved MGK 400E sonar, new noise reduction technology ( the U.S. Navy dubbed the subs “black holes” due to their quietness) and new armaments.

Displacing around 4,000 tons when submerged, the submarines can be armed with both torpedoes and submarines-launched cruise missiles including 3M-14E _Klub_ supersonic cruise missiles, sold to Vietnam by Russia in 2015. As I noted elsewhere: “While it is unknown whether the anti-ship variant of the weapon sold to Vietnam is the 3M-54E Klub-S (range 220km) or 3M-54E1 (range 300km) – both of which can be launched from submarines – the land-attack variant is almost certainly the 3M-14E (range 300km), capable of carrying a 450kg warhead.”

The submarines, armed with supersonic cruise missiles can threaten the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) naval base at Sanya on China’s Hainan Island as well as Chinese military facilities in the South China Sea. As I explained in June 2016 (See: “US Arms Sales to Vietnam: A Military Analysis”):

_Vietnam’s military planning vis-à-vis China is defensive in nature and built around A2/AD—or anti-access and areal denial strategies, exploiting asymmetrical advantages by, for example, fielding new diesel-electric submarines to exploit China’s known weakness in anti-submarine warfare. All of this requires enhanced maritime domain awareness (MDA) and early warning systems in place and the establishment of a so-called kill chain linking “‘see-ers and shooters,’” as one analyst recently put it._

_Vietnam’s ultimate goal is to deter China from deploying People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) vessels in so-called gray zone coercion scenarios, which involves the use of China Coast Guard (CCG) and maritime militia vessels to blockade Vietnamese-held islands and features in the South China Sea while avoiding open military conflict._

Whether the VPN’s new submarine fleet will contribute to Vietnam’s overall A2/AD strategy and deterrence capabilities will above all depend on the training of its submarine crews and how well the VPN can maintain the operational readiness of the new boats in the years ahead.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam slams Chinese fishing ban in South China Sea*

The Associated Press
HANOI, VIETNAM 
http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/article135608298.html

Vietnam has slammed a fishing ban China has imposed in parts of the disputed South China Sea, saying it violates Vietnamese sovereignty and further complicates the tense situation in the troubled waters.

China's Ministry of Agriculture on Monday issued a seasonal fishing ban in parts of the South China Sea, including waters near the Paracel islands claimed by Vietnam but occupied by China.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh said in a statement Tuesday that Vietnam opposes and rejects the ban, adding Vietnam has the legal grounds and historical evidence to back up its sovereignty claims.

He said China's unilateral action seriously violates Vietnam's sovereignty and goes against international law.


Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/article135608298.html#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/article135608298.html#storylink=cpy

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## Viet

Japanese Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko arrived in Hanoi. for the first time ever in history, an emperor of Japan visits Vietnam. that will probably be the last official overseas trip, the emperor of Japan makes before he cedes the throne to the crown prince. most of media reports the purpose of the trip is Japan´s intention to heal the last wounds left over during the brutal Japanese invasion of Vietnam in the WW II.

Respect!


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## Viet

no longer a God like figure like Hirohito, the modern Emperor is as per Japan constitution: he is "the symbol of the State and of the unity of the people of Japan” and exercises “the will of the people with whom resides sovereign power”.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Buys More Defense Equipment from Israel *
by Chen Chuanren
March 1, 2017, 7:27 AM





Elbit Systems won a contract to work on India’s Mi-17s, and a much larger one to upgrade Mi-17s for an “Asia-Pacific country.” (Photo: Vladimir Karnozov)


Vietnam took delivery last month of a second batch of Rafael Python and Derby (SPYDER) surface-to-air missiles. The first batch was delivered last July, but that was not the first time the communist state had sourced defense equipment from Israel. And Vietnam could be the customer for a $110 million upgrade of Mil Mi-17 helicopters that Elbit Systems has recently secured from “an Asia-Pacific country.” 

Vietnam signed a deal for the SPYDER system on October 2015. Not disclosed is whether the deal was for the short-range (SR) or the medium-range (MR) variant. Mounted on the Rheinmetall MAN HX8x8 trucks, Vietnam’s package also includes 200 Derby and Python missiles each.

Since the end of Vietnam War, Russia and Eastern-bloc states such as Romania and Ukraine have been Vietnam’s main arms suppliers. However, in the last decade Hanoi has bought Western military equipment, and in the last five years, Israeli products. The latter have included the IAI-Elta EL/M-2288 air defence radar and EL/M-2022 airborne radar for three Guardian 400 maritime patrol aircraft based on the DHC-6 Twin Otter, and supplied by Viking Air of Canada.

The Mi-17 contract that Elbit Systems announced on February 8 includes upgrading and maintaining of “dozens” of Mi-17 helicopters over a five-year period. With a value of $110 million, it is much larger than the $30 million deal that Elbit struck a week later with Indian firm Alpha Design for work on 90 Indian Air Force Mi-17s. The upgrade for the “Asia-Pacific country” could include new cockpit displays, digital voice recorder and missile-launch-detection systems. Vietnam has more than 80 Mi-8/Mi-17s in service, the bulk of which were delivered in the 1970s.

Elbit Systems president and CEO Bezhalel (Butzi) Machlis, said: “Since the ‘aging helicopter’ market is growing rapidly and includes numerous Eastern platforms, we hope other customers will follow the selection of our modernization solutions.”

Vietnam has been boosting its defenses in response to the Chinese military build-up in South China Sea. In 2015, Hanoi spent $4.57 billion on defense, putting Su-30MK2V fighters, anti-ship missiles as well as a multitude of air defense missiles into service.

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## Carlosa

*China and Vietnam: Thoughts From a Chinese Sojourner in Ho Chi Minh City*
Different interpretations of history showcase hidden tensions in the China-Vietnam relationship.






By Xie Tao
March 02, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/03/chin...from-a-chinese-sojourner-in-ho-chi-minh-city/

In early February, I paid my second visit to Ho Chi Minh city, Vietnam. Unlike my first visit, which was four years ago, this time I decided to spend much of the five days exploring the various museums in the city. It was the dry season in Vietnam, and the museums would provide a pleasant shelter from the sizzling heat in the streets. Also, my son was only four years old during my first visit, and I thought four years later he was old enough to learn from the museums a little bit about the history and culture of a country he has visited twice.

Most importantly, as a Chinese political scientist, I was hoping that these museums would help me to find out how Vietnam views its relations with China. Given the critical role of museums — along with maps and censuses — in the formation of national identities, as discussed in great length by Benedict Anderson in his widely acclaimed_ The Imagined Community_, I was certain that the Vietnamese government’s narrative on the bilateral relationship would be different from that of the Chinese government, but I didn’t know how exactly they would differ from each other.

In the morning of my second day, I went to the War Remnants Museum. I had heard from those who had been to the museum that it is dedicated solely to the war between Vietnam and the United States. Also I had known that China provided a massive amount of aid to the Vietnamese people during the Vietnam War, though Beijing has never disclosed the exact numbers. One Chinese sources estimated the amount to be roughly $20 billion (calculated on the basis of prices in the 1970s), which is worth about 5 trillion RMB today. Additionally, Beijing sent more than 300,000 military personnel across the border between 1965 and 1968, according to another source. Thus before arriving at the museum, I had the expectation that at least one or two exhibits in the museum would gratefully acknowledge China’s generous assistance to Vietnam.

The ground floor of the museum is a collection of photos and posters. The photos document anti-war rallies, demonstrations, and protests across the world (including in the United States), while the posters use words and pictures to convey international support for Vietnam and opposition to the United States. Toward the end of the collection I came upon three photos. The first showed Mao Zedong shaking hands with Ho Chi Minh. In the second photo two balloons with long banners — one read “long live Chairman Mao” and the other “long live Chairman Ho” — were floating above the Tiananmen Square in Beijing, which was packed with crowds. The third depicted Mao receiving a visiting Vietnamese delegation. It turned out that these three photos were the only exhibits in the three-story museum that suggested Vietnamese acknowledgement of and gratitude for Chinese assistance during the Vietnam War.

In the afternoon of the fourth day, I traveled to the History Museum. After quickly going through the first two exhibits, which featured traditional artifacts and dresses, I found myself at the entrance to the third exhibit. At the top of the entrance was a placard that read “Chinese Occupation — The Struggle for Independence.” The third exhibit consisted of two dozen or so posters and replicated maps. I was particularly fascinated by one poster, which reads as follows (verbatim):

_“After the defeat of King An Duong in the resistance against Trieu Da (179 B.C.), Vietnam was ruled, exploited and assimilated by Chinese feudal groups. During more 1,000 years, Vietnamese people struggled firmly to preserve cultural tradition, national language, received and vietnamized elements of Han culture; rose simultaneously in more 100 rebellions against aggressors in order to get sovereignty with the first revolt of two Trung sisters (40-43 A.D.). In 938, Ngo Quyen expelled completely the Chinese aggressor on the historical Bach Dang river, began the era of the freedom and independence for Vietnamese people.”_

The poster was followed by a series of replicated maps, which indicated not only the routes of successive “Chinese aggression,” but also the locations of Vietnamese resistance against such aggression. One map depicted the “typical revolts against the northern aggressors (1st-10th century).” Another portrayed the “victory of Dai Viet army against Song aggressors (1076-1077).” A third map showed the “Lam Son insurrection (1418-1427).” By the time I walked out of the entrance, I had gained a clear sense of how China was — and probably still is — viewed by its neighbor to the south.

Back at my hotel room in the evening, I was trying to make sense of what I saw in the History Museum. I happened to have with me a copy of the 2014 Lonely Planet travel book on Vietnam, so I began to read the brief introduction on Vietnam’s history. Then I came across a section headlined “China Bites Back,” which reads as follows:

_“The Chinese took control of Vietnam again in the early 15th century, taking the national archives and some of the country’s intellectuals back to Nanjing [the capital of Ming dynasty] — a loss that was to have lasting impact on Vietnamese civilization. Heavy taxation and slave labor were also typical of the era. The poet Nguyen Trai (1380-1442) wrote of this period: ‘Were the waters of the Eastern Sea to be exhausted, the stains of their ignominy could not be washed away; all the bamboo of the Southern Mountains would not suffice to provide the paper for recording all their crimes.’”_

To be honest, I was not prepared at all for such a poem. Indeed, for me, it could have easily passed as a poem that denounces the Japanese invasion of China had the author of the poem not been identified. I was truly shocked by the intensity of resentment in between the lines. To be sure, I was fully aware that the two countries have had a troubled relationship since the late 1970s: a border clash in 1979, naval skirmishes in the South China Sea in the early 1980s, and tensions over disputed islands in the South China Sea since 2010. But I didn’t know that Vietnamese animosity toward China runs so deep and powerful. Just as “a century of humiliation” has become an integral part of the Chinese collective memory, so has “one thousand years of Chinese rule” evolved to be a core component of the Vietnamese national identity, regardless of the Chinese memory or whether the Vietnamese identity is spontaneous or manufactured.

Putting aside the Lonely Planet book, I tried to make sense of Vietnam-China relations. All of a sudden I remembered a quote widely attributed to Ho Chi Minh, the father of modern Vietnam. Ho reportedly made the following remarks in 1946, shortly after he agreed to allow French troops to return to Vietnam.

_“You fools! Don’t you realize what it means if the Chinese remain? Don’t you remember your history? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed a thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying. The white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never go. As for me, I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than to eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life.”_

Ho’s quick forgiveness of the French colonists goes a long way toward explaining the Vietnamese people’s apparent magnanimity toward Americans. One exhibit in the War Remnants Museum says 3 million Vietnamese were killed (among them 2 million civilians), 2 million injured, plus 300,000 missing in the war with the United States. On top of this horrible loss of human life is the enormous harm to both the local environment and residents caused by Agent Orange. It is likely that the ignominies and crimes committed by Americans about ten years are much worse than those inflicted by China over more than a thousand years. Yet the Vietnamese seem to have quickly gotten over American atrocities.

What can the past tell us about the future of Vietnam-China relations? One lesson seems to be in order: The centrifugal forces of nationalism are far more powerful than the centripetal forces of communism. Just as Mao eventually broke with Stalin, so did Ho eventually turn his back against Mao. Scratch a communist, and you will find a nationalist not far under the surface. As long as memories about “a thousand years of Chinese rule” remain fresh in the Vietnamese collective consciousness, Beijing’s promise of peaceful rise will ring hollow, and ongoing tensions in the South China Sea will only make that promise even hollower. Hanoi will continue to seek support from third parties in order to prepare itself for an unpeaceful rise of China.

With these thoughts, I am getting ready for my next stop: Yangon, Myanmar.

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## Viet

A remarkable speech of Japanese Emperor Akihito at a banquet sponsored by Vietnam President Tran Dai Quang in Hanoi on Wednesday. Not because he wishes Japan and Vietnam to deepen understanding and reinforce ties, but he mentions of 180,000 Vietnamese residing in Japan. The number includes students and interns. An interesting fact considering the number of Vietnamese in Japan was very low just few years ago. Also, there are numerous visa violations of Vietnamese tourists. They look for jobs and stay in Japan. Regardless the emperor says he is pleased in seeing Japan and Vietnam have very close cultural ties. Maybe Akihito should tell Shinzo Abe government to open the labor market. Japan needs people. Vietnam has too many. Anyway all is not really a defense news here.

But should VN-JP relationship continue to improve, the military may follow. We will soon see Japanese attack submarines to dock in Camranh bay.

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## Viet

Thu Mar 2, 2017 | 3:31 AM EST
*Japanese emperor meets former soldiers' families in Vietnam*

*



*

By My Pham | HANOI 
Reuters 

Japan's Emperor Akihito met the Vietnamese families of Japanese World War Two soldiers on Thursday on his first visit to Vietnam, one of many trips he has used to try to soothe the wounds of war.

Some 16 descendants of marriages between Vietnamese women and Japanese soldiers met Emperor Akihito, 83, and Empress Michiko, 82, including 94-year-old widow Nguyen Thi Xuan. Most of the family members were in their 60s.

"We would like to share our understanding toward your difficult time in the past," the empress told Xuan.

While most Japanese soldiers returned home from occupied Indochina after Japan's defeat in 1945, some 600 remained to join Vietnamese independence leader Ho Chi Minh's Viet Minh in fighting French colonial forces.

After that war ended, the former soldiers went back to Japan, but many were unable to take their families with them.

"I'm so touched to meet the emperor and empress today. Though old now, they still fly all the way here to meet us," said Xuan, the only surviving widow attending the meeting.

Although Emperor Akihito has no political power, his overseas trips often have diplomatic overtones and the visit to Vietnam comes at a time of strengthening relations between Japan and Vietnam because of shared concern about the rise of China.

Japan has been Vietnam's biggest aid donor over four decades. For private investment, it ranks second to South Korea.

"We thank you and hope the ties between our countries will be better and better," Xuan said as she gave the imperial couple a hug.

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## hoangsa74

Vietnam eyes Israeli weapons for air force use

Vietnam is considering a purchase of advanced weapon systems from Israel, with the nation’s air force eyeing an advanced version of the Israel Military Industries (IMI) Delilah standoff-range air-to-surface missile.

The system was included in recent discussions between Vietnamese president Tran Dai Quang and IMI chairman Yitzhak Aharonovitch in Hanoi. Israel has become a significant partner to Vietnam in defence activities.

First used in combat by Israeli Lockheed Martin F-16s over Lebanon in 2006, the Delilah has a range of 135nm (250km) and can carry a variety of warheads. IMI has been upgrading the weapon’s capabilities, based on the operational experience of its domestic customer. The missile is 2.7m (8.8ft) long and weighs 187kg (400lb).

Flight Fleets Analyzer records the Vietnamese People’s Air Force as operating 36 Sukhoi Su-22 strike aircraft and 40 Su-27/30-series fighters.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/vietnam-eyes-israeli-weapons-for-air-force-use-434742/


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## Viet

Usually the Japanese aren´t the ones that bow to anybody. least Japanese emperor, a god like figure in ancient Japan. for thousands of years, Japan emperor expects his subjects to bow down before him. Vietnam dispatched throughout history envoy to China´s imperial court to pay respect and tribute to the Son of Heaven, including a bow-down or kowtow, but in contrast the Japanese never did such a thing. here during the on-going state visit to VN the imperial couple paid respect to the late Ho Chi Minh. an interesting fact about Ho and Japan: at the turn of the century during the French colonisation period, Ho secretly organised sending Viet students to Japan to learn Japanese warfare, finding a way to defeat France. the French were not amused, after they detected the mission of Ho. Tension between France and Japan was raising.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam to deploy more vessels to protect fishermen amid Chinese fishing ban*
By Pham Huong March 3, 2017 | 08:59 pm GMT+7




Two fisheries surveillance ships operated by the Directorate of Fisheries under Vietnam’s Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development. Photo by VnExpress/Van Duong 
*Surveillance ships will have plenty to keep their eyes on as tensions mount once again in the troubled waters. *
Vietnam will dispatch fisheries surveillance ships to protect and assist its fishermen in areas where China has issued unilateral fishing bans in the East Sea, internationally known as South China Sea.

China’s Ministry of Agriculture on Monday issued a ban on fishing in a number of areas from May 1 to August 16, which include the Gulf of Tonkin near the Hoang Sa (Paracel) Islands in the East Sea.

Vietnam has condemned the ban, saying China’s move has seriously violated its maritime sovereignty over Hoang Sa.

The Directorate of Fisheries under Vietnam’s Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development will deploy fisheries surveillance ships across its territorial waters with a focus on the areas where China has issued its illegal fishing ban, Vu Duyen Hai, an official from the directorate, told a press briefing on Friday.

Fishermen are advised to only operate in safe areas and in groups while maintaining communication with their local governments, surveillance ships and other forces should an incident occur, Hai said.

China has been issuing the so-called fishing ban since 1999, despite opposition from Vietnam and other countries in the region.

In 1974, taking advantage of the withdrawal of American troops from the Vietnam War, China invaded Hoang Sa. A brief but bloody naval battle with the forces of the then U.S.-backed Republic of Vietnam ensued.

The Truong Sa (Spratly) Islands, the other hotspot in the region, is claimed in part by China, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

-------------------------------

*Vietnam snares Chinese boats for illegal fishing*
By Hoang Tao March 3, 2017 | 02:12 pm GMT+7




A Chinese boat caught fishing illegally in Vietnamese waters on Thursday. Photo by VnExpress/Duc Tri

*Three Chinese boats were caught fishing just 40 kilometers off the country's central coast. *
Border guards in the central province of Quang Binh on Thursday seized two fishing boats with nine Chinese crew on board and chased away another for violating Vietnamese waters.

The boats were caught fishing around 40 kilometers offshore and more than 20 kilometers beyond the fishing grounds shared by Vietnam and China.

Quang Binh sent 16 border guards to stop two of the boats. The nine Chinese fishermen had to sign penalty documents before they were released. The third Chinese boat upped anchor and fled.

China’s agriculture ministry last month issued an international ban on fishing in a number of areas from May 1 to August 16, which include the waters in the Gulf of Tonkin in the East Sea, known internationally as the South China Sea.

Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry and its fishing associations have both strongly opposed the ban, saying it seriously violates Vietnam’s sovereignty.

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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Usually the Japanese aren´t the ones that bow to anybody. least Japanese emperor, a god like figure in ancient Japan. for thousands of years, Japan emperor expects his subjects to bow down before him. Vietnam dispatched throughout history envoy to China´s imperial court to pay respect and tribute to the Son of Heaven, including a bow-down or kowtow, but in contrast the Japanese never did such a thing. here during the on-going state visit to VN the imperial couple paid respect to the late Ho Chi Minh. an interesting fact about Ho and Japan: at the turn of the century during the French colonisation period, Ho secretly organised sending Viet students to Japan to learn Japanese warfare, finding a way to defeat France. the French were not amused, after they detected the mission of Ho. Tension between France and Japan was raising.


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## Viet

YuChen said:


>


Vietnam imperial seal














Sword of a Nguyen emperor

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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Vietnam imperial seal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sword of a Nguyen emperor


The golden seal i posted was given to the Japanese king during the Han dynasty and is now in the Japanese museum. Since you said they never accepted any title from the central kingdom.
PS: Why did you posting the Vietnam's seal and sword?


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## Viet

YuChen said:


> The golden seal i posted was given to the Japanese king during the Han dynasty and is now in the Japanese museum. Since you said they never accepted any title from the central kingdom.
> PS: Why did you posting the Vietnam's seal and sword?


I wrote the Japanese never bow down to China. You may ask why Vietnam did but Japan never.

Any problem with Vietnam imperial seals?


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> I wrote the Japanese never bow down to China. You may ask why Vietnam did but Japan never.
> 
> Any problem with Vietnam imperial seals?


Never?During Han,Wei,Sui and Tang, they were taking the title with grateful,thus they were indeed a part of tributary system.


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## Viet

YuChen said:


> Never?During Han,Wei,Sui and Tang, they were taking the title with grateful,thus they were indeed a part of tributary system.


You mean Okinawa. Yes it paid tribute to China but it paid tribute to Japan too. It became part of Japan in 19 century because it was annexed by Japan. Japan was itself never a part of China tribute system.


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## terranMarine

Viets giving history lesson? What a failure

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## IblinI

Viet said:


> You mean Okinawa. Yes it paid tribute to China but it paid tribute to Japan too. It became part of Japan in 19 century because it was annexed by Japan. Japan was itself never a part of China tribute system.


Han and Okinawa?


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> View attachment 381571
> 
> 
> Viets giving history lesson? What a failure


Haven't you noticed something don't add up. The Ming dynasty lasts nearly 300 years but Japan sent only 20 missions to China?

How is it possible?

Vietnam was required to show up at China imperial court at least once a year when the emperor celebrated his birthday. In addition to other occasions when he had new concubines, celebrated new conquests, new achievements every one or every two years. We had probably dispatched 1,000 missions to China during the Ming. And that although running tension between Vietnam and China.


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## terranMarine

So what was Viet saying again? Japan was never part of the tributary system? Vietnamese teaching history has always been a joke

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> View attachment 381621
> 
> 
> So what was Viet saying again? Japan was never part of the tributary system? Vietnamese teaching history has always been a joke


The article you posted stated clearly what I say previously: Japan had never been an official part of the tributary system with China as central kingdom. Japan sent envoys to China as part of diplomatic relation. But it was not rooted in a demand from China. How can it be that Japan only sent 20 missions to the Ming court if it was a part of tribute system? 20? When Vietnam sent 1,000.

First, if Vietnam would do the same, with little or refusing paying tribute as stated in the treaty we signed with our neighbor, China would see it as a grave provocation, yes even a reason for going to war. It is not that Vietnam can choose how often we go to Nanjing. Do you think Vietnam has a choice? The Han invasion, the confrontation with the Song, the Ming military campaign against Vietnam, the Qing invasion. Would China do the same with Japan?

Last, it is clearly evidenced when the French in the 19 century ultimately demanded China to quit its relationship and tribute system to Vietnam, China was unwilling to do and saw the French demand as an act of war.

I think we slowly go off-topic.


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## terranMarine

Twisting words doesn't mean your explanation is accepted end of discussion. Wikipedia and published books clearly indicated Japan was.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Twisting words doesn't mean your explanation is accepted end of discussion. Wikipedia and published books clearly indicated Japan was.


When the US warships entered the harbors of Japan, forcing the country to open the market for trades, why China had not intervened? ok, we can let the Japanese to decide whether they had been a part of tribute system or not and we end the discussion. Actually it's an academic discussion, the people of Vietnam don't care such a thing.

a picture of Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko inside the royal theatre at the former imperial citadel in Hue,Vietnam on Saturday.


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> You debate like a silly kid, grow up. No wonder i consider you as some primitive baboon because you don't speak human language. I presented literature, facts, source. What have you presented? Your own opinion .... obviously you care too much and lick too much Japanese balls that you begin to worship them like a God. Well this God is now chained by the US and the Japs are now paying tribute to the Americans. Oh wait nobody ever said the Japs did that lol


You present here nothing except wiki that can be manipulated by everyone and a paper by unknown author. Even that paper says nothing about the status of Japan whether it had ever signed a treaty with China, participating tribute system. Oh yes in addition what you are especially good at: you spew insult and nonsense if running out of argument. As usual.

Unless you can post here original a Japanese source, or a paper of Chinese imperial court, my statement stands.

It is your language that reveals your primitivism.

I despise people like you.

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## Viet

Return with military news

Vietnam is reportedly successful in making a domestic version of ignition device for gas engine of X-29 supersonic antiship missile. Range 30 km. The 320 kg missile warhead can sink a 10,000 ton destroyer with a single hit.







Every Kilo attack submarine can carry 18 Torpedo with a range of 20 km.

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## Viet

BMP-1 light tank with antitank missile 9M14 Malyutka




Armor transporter ATC-59G






The two new Gepard frigates will carry 2x2 torpedo tubes against enemy submarines.







Test firing new domestic made RPG

















Molynia corvettes with antiship missiles with range increased from 130 km to 200 km.

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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> You present here nothing except wiki that can be manipulated by everyone and a paper by unknown author. Even that paper says nothing about the status of Japan whether it had ever signed a treaty with China, participating tribute system. Oh yes in addition what you are especially good at: you spew insult and nonsense if running out of argument. As usual.
> 
> Unless you can post here original a Japanese source, or a paper of Chinese imperial court, my statement stands.
> 
> It is your language that reveals your primitivism.
> 
> I despise people like you.



Your statement stands nothing other than a a piece of garbage opinion. Original source from Japanese or Chinese Imperial Court? is this a f*cking joke? Is there original documentation from Chinese court that Korea, Vietnam and other countries who paid tribute? Yet you accept that fact.

I used published books as source not just wikipedia and you? You've got nothing but a stinky big mouth nobody takes you serious over the proofs i have presented here childish Viet.

Here's another one













Disgusting Overseas Viet like you holds no respect by others.


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Your statement stands nothing other than a a piece of garbage opinion. Original source from Japanese or Chinese Imperial Court? is this a f*cking joke? Is there original documentation from Chinese court that Korea, Vietnam and other countries who paid tribute? Yet you accept that fact.
> 
> I used published books as source not just wikipedia and you? You've got nothing but a stinky big mouth nobody takes you serious over the proofs i have presented here childish Viet.
> 
> Here's another one
> View attachment 381880
> 
> View attachment 381882
> 
> View attachment 381883
> 
> 
> Disgusting Overseas Viet like you holds no respect by others.


you should know I am immune again little clown like you who runs amok. It is you who has little respect for others. It is you who likens our people to certain animal in jungle. Mind your language. It bores me a lot when you again and again argue where I live to nullify my arguments. Have I ever tried to do the same to you? No. I don't lower myself, not copying your bad behavior.

Of course there are records of Chinese imperial courts over the contacts to other nations. When the Nguyen ascended to power, it sent envoy to China, negotiating of everything, from paying tribute in what form how many times in which period, yes, even in the country name of Vietnam. When the French took control over Vietnam, and China lost the war against France, it had accepted French supremacy over Vietnam, releasing Vietnam out of tribute system in the treaty of Hue.

I am pretty sure, similar records at Chinese and Japanese imperial courts must exist should Japan have ever become an official part of tributary system. What's wrong if I asked for?

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## Viet

a man with two roles: Hwang Kyo-ahn, as Prime Minister of the South Korea and since Park Geun-hye was removed from power, he serves as President, too. Interesting combination. Hwang may hope, because Vietnam maintains a good relationship to North Korea, Vietnam diplomats can talk and bring North Korea back to negotiation table. But I´m afraid it is too late.







because the demand is high, I post more pictures of the historic visit of Japanese emperor and empress to Vietnam. if there is anyone, who feels uncomfortable by some reasons, please feel free and close the eyes.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam, Myanmar enhance defence collaboration*

_Senior defence officials of Vietnam and Myanmar have agreed to continue bolstering defence cooperation between the two countries and making it deeper, more effective and practical in the future._


_



_

_Defence Minister Ngo Xuan Lich (R) and Commander-in-Chief of the Myanmar Armed Forces Min Aung Hlaign _

The agreement was reached during talks in Hanoi on March 6 between Defence Minister Ngo Xuan Lich and Commander-in-Chief of the Myanmar Armed Forces Min Aung Hlaign, who is on a four-day visit to Vietnam from March 5 at the invitation of the Vietnamese Defence Minister.

At the talks, the two sides briefed each other on political, socio-economic and defence-security situation in each country, and shared experience in building the armed forces.

Noting that defence cooperation between the two countries over the past years has become one of key pillars in partnership between Vietnam and Myanmar, the officials discussed the orientations and contents for cooperation in 2017 and beyond.

On the foundation of the defence collaboration agreement signed in 2011, the two armies have implemented various cooperation activities such as exchanging of delegations at all levels, holding exchanges for young officers, organising Vietnamese and Myanmar language training, and partnering in the fight against illegal migration and smuggling.

They have also actively consulting and supporting each other at multilateral forums, contributing to strengthening the Vietnam-Myanmar ties in an effective and practical manner, thus bolstering the traditional friendship between the armies and peoples of both countries, making the ties more effective, benefiting people of both sides.

The same day, the military-run Viettel Global Investment JSC and Myanmar’s Telecommunication Joint Venture MYTEL signed a contract on technology and management assistance.

_VNA_

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## Viet

Some military pictures

Amphibious tanks






Rifles and machine guns manufactured by z111 factory






Galil rifles 31/32



































12.7mm sniper rifle

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## Viet

*US Navy Begins High-End Exercise With Japan, HADR Drill With Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Malaysia*
By: Megan Eckstein
March 6, 2017 2:01 PM






The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Mustin (DDG 89), USS McCampbell (DDG 85), and USS Barry (DDG 52) maneuver near the USS Stethem (DDG 63) during a surface exercise in waters south of Japan on Feb. 27, 2017. The destroyers eventually sailed to Guam to participate in the Multisail 2017 exercise with Japanese forces. US Navy photo.


The U.S. Navy and Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force began their annual bilateral training Multisail exercise today, which will this year include at-sea training hosted by the Naval Surface and Mine Warfighting Development Center.

Multisail 2017, taking place in and around Guam, includes six U.S. Navy ships, two JMSDF ships and other subsurface and other special units, according to a Navy news release. Among the U.S. forces participating are the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers USS _Stethem_ (DDG-63), USS _Barry_(DDG-52), USS _Mustin_ (DDG-89), USS _Fitzgerald_ (DDG-62) and USS _McCampbell_ (DDG-85).

The training exercise focuses on “detecting, locating, tracking, and engaging units at sea, in the air, on land, and underwater in response to a range of mission areas.” Those mission areas range from maritime security operations to anti-submarine and air defense exercises, according to the news release.

Lessons learned from this exercise will help the Navy and JMSDF develop regional capabilities to defend their interests and those of their allies, the Navy stated.

Elsewhere in the Pacific, the Navy is conducting its 12th Pacific Partnership mission, which began March 1. This operation selects a couple countries – this year Sri Lanka, Malaysia and Vietnam – to train for humanitarian assistance and disaster response missions.

Medical, dental, civil-engineering and veterinary teams – from the U.S., United Kingdom, Australia, Japan and South Korea, embarked aboard expeditionary fast transport USNS _Fall River_ (T-EPF-4) – will partner with the host nations to conduct civic-action projects, community health exchanges, medical symposiums and humanitarian and disaster relief (HADR) drills.

“Pacific Partnership is helping improve disaster response readiness for more than a decade in dozens of nations,” Rear Adm. Don Gabrielson, commander of Task Force 73 and executive agent for Pacific Partnership 17, said in a Navy news release. “

“Disasters threaten us all – they ignore borders, and they disregard national sovereignty. The Indo-Asia-Pacific region averages two large disasters each year, and Pacific Partnership has been a key enabler behind many countries being more prepared today. When the distress call comes, the life-savers know who to call and what to do next because Pacific Partnership helps prepare us to manage the unthinkable.”

The news release notes that about two major HADR events occur in the Pacific each year and that exercises like Pacific Partnership help create a smoother response by creating relationships and experience in coordinating response efforts.

Of note, this will be the first time in the exercise’s 12-year history that the Navy will visit Sri Lanka or any other South Asian nation. _Fall River_ will also be in Vietnam on the 22nd anniversary of the normalization of diplomatic relations between the United States and Vietnam and is meant to highlight the deepening relationship between the two nations.

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## Viet

Opinion

*How Playboy Explains Vietnam*




Dan Mouer in Vietnam in 1966. The magazine was sent by his wife, along with a batch of chocolate chip cookies.

*FEBRUARY 28, 2017*
Vietnam '67
By AMBER BATURA

There’s a famous scene about halfway through “Apocalypse Now” in which Martin Sheen’s river boat pulls into a supply base, deep in the jungle. While the crew members are buying diesel fuel, the supply clerk gives them free tickets to a show — “You know,” he says, “the bunnies.” Soon they’re sitting in an improvised amphitheater around a landing pad, watching as three Playboy models hop out of a helicopter and dance to “Suzie Q.”

The scene is entirely fictional; Playboy models almost never toured Vietnam, and certainly not in groups. But if the women were never there themselves in force, the magazine itself certainly was. In fact, it’s hard to overstate how profound a role Playboy played among the millions of American soldiers and civilians stationed in Vietnam throughout the war: as entertainment, yes, but more important as news and, through its extensive letters section, as a sounding board and confessional.

Playboy’s value extended beyond the individual soldier to the military at large; the publication became a coveted and useful morale booster, at times rivaling even the longed-for letter from home. Playboy branded the war because of its unique combination of women, gadgets, and social and political commentary, making it a surprising legacy of our involvement in Vietnam. By 1967, Ward Just of The Washington Post claimed, “If World War II was a war of Stars and Stripes and Betty Grable, the war in Vietnam is Playboy magazine’s war.”

The most famous feature of the magazine was the centerfold Playmate. The magazine’s creator and editor, Hugh Hefner, had a specific image in mind for the women he portrayed. The Playmate, originally introduced as the Sweetheart of the Month, represented the ultimate companion to the Playboy. She enjoyed art, politics and music. She was sophisticated, fun and intelligent. Even more important, this ideal woman enjoyed sex as much as the ideal man described in the publication. She wasn’t after men for marriage, but for mutual pleasure and companionship.

Though following in their legacy, the Playmate models differed from the pinups of World War II. Hefner wanted images of real women their readers might see in their everyday life — a classmate, secretary or neighbor — instead of the highly stylized and often famous women of an older generation. The sexualized, yet familiar, “girl next door” was the perfect accompaniment for soldiers stationed in Vietnam. This conception of wholesome, all-American beauty and sexuality acted out by largely unknown models reminded young soldiers of the women they left behind, and for whom they were fighting — and could, if they survived, imagine returning to.

The centerfold and other visual features in the magazine served another, unintentional purpose for American troops in Vietnam. Playboy’s pictures and often-ribald cartoons conveyed changing social and sexual norms back home. The introduction of women of color in 1964 with China Lee and in 1965 with Jennifer Jackson reflected shifting attitudes regarding race. Many soldiers wrote to both the magazine and the Playmates thanking them for their inclusion in Playboy. Black soldiers, in particular, felt that the inclusion of Ms. Jackson extended the promise of Mr. Hefner’s good life to them. Viewing these images forced all Americans to rethink their definitions of beauty.

Over time, the centerfolds pushed the boundaries of social norms and legal definitions as they featured more nudity, with the inclusion of pubic hair in 1969 and full-frontal nudity in 1972. The Washington Post reported that American prisoners of war were “taken aback” by the nudity in a smuggled Playboy found on their flight home in 1973. The nudity, sexuality and diversity portrayed in the pictorials represented more permissive attitudes about sex and beauty that the soldiers had missed during their years in captivity.

Playboy’s appeal to the G.I. in Vietnam extended beyond the centerfold. The men really did read it for the articles. The magazine provided regular features, editorials, columns and ads that focused on men’s lifestyle and entertainment, including high fashion, foreign travel, modern architecture, the latest technology and luxury cars. The publication set itself up as a how-to guide for those men hoping to achieve Mr. Hefner’s vision of the good life, regardless of whether they were in San Diego or Saigon.

For young men serving in Southeast Asia, whose average age was 19, military service often provided them their first access to disposable income. Soldiers turned to the magazine for advice on what gadgets to buy, the best vehicles and the latest fashions — products they could often then buy at one of Vietnam’s enormous on-base exchanges, sprawling shopping centers to rival anything back home.

The magazine’s advice feature, “The Playboy Advisor,” encouraged men to ask questions on all manner of topics, from the best liquor to stock at home to bedroom advice to adjusting to civilian life. Troops found Playboy a useful tool in figuring out their roles in the consumer-oriented landscape they were now able to join because of the mobility and income their military service provided them.





The “Playboy Club” in Chu Lai, Vietnam, in 1969.

THE VIETNAM CENTER AND ARCHIVE, TEXAS TECH UNIVERSITY

The content moved beyond lifestyle and entertainment as the editorial mission of the magazine evolved. By the 1960s, Playboy included hard-hitting features on important social, cultural and political issues confronting the United States, often written by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists, government and military leaders and top literary figures. The magazine took on topics like feminism, abortion, gay rights, race, economic issues, the counterculture movement and mass incarceration — something soldiers couldn’t get from Stars and Stripes. It offered exhaustive interviews with everyone from Malcolm X to the American Nazi leader George Lincoln Rockwell, exposing young G.I.s to arguments and ideas about race and African-American equality they might not have been introduced to in their hometowns. Service in Vietnam put many soldiers in direct contact with diverse races and cultures, and Playboy presented them new ideas and arguments regarding those social and cultural issues.

As early as 1965, Playboy began running articles about the Vietnam War, with an editorial position that expressed reservations about the escalating conflict. The editors were smart about it, of course: Their stance may have been critical of the president, the administration, the military leaders and the strategy, but they made sure the contributors made every effort to stay supportive of the soldiers. In 1967, troops read the liberal economist John Kenneth Galbraith arguing that “no part of the original justification” for the war “remains intact,” as he dismantled the idea of monolithic Communism and other Cold War justifications for war. But that was different from attacking the troops themselves. In 1971, the journalist David Halberstam wrote in an article for Playboy that “we admired their bravery and their idealism, their courage and dedication in the face of endless problems. We believed that they represented the best of American society.” Troops in Vietnam could turn to Playboy for coverage of their own war without fearing criticism of themselves.

Playboy was also useful as a forum for the men engaged in the fighting. The publication was unique in its number of interactive features. Soldiers wrote into sections like “Dear Playboy” for advice and with reactions to articles. But those correspondents also freely described their wartime experiences and concerns. They often described what they saw as unfair treatment by the military, discussed their difficulty in transitioning back to civilian society or thanked the magazine for helping them through their time in-country. In 1973, one soldier, R. K. Redini of Chicago, wrote to Playboy about his return home. “One of the things that made my Vietnam tour endurable was seeing Playboy every month,” he said. “It sure helped all of us forget our problems — for a little while, anyway. I thank you not only for myself but also for the thousands of other guys who find a lot of pleasure in your magazine.”

In “The Playboy Forum,” another reader-response section, many wrote in addressing specific aspects of Hefner’s lengthy editorial series “The Playboy Philosophy,” including drugs, race and homosexuality in the military. The forum format allowed those who served in Vietnam to reach out not just to other soldiers, but also to the public, providing them a safe space to voice their opinions and criticisms of their service. 

“Traditionally, a soldier with a gripe is advised by friends to tell it to the chaplain, take it to the inspector general or write to his congressman,” a soldier wrote. “Now, probably because of letters about military injustice in The Playboy Forum, another court of last resort has been added to the list.”

Playboy magazine’s significance to the soldiers in Vietnam spread far beyond the foldout Playmate. Troops appropriated the magazine’s bunny mascot and the company’s logo, painting it on planes, helicopters and tanks. They incorporated the logo into patches and “playboy” into call signs and unit nicknames. Adopting the symbol of Playboy was a small rebellion to the conformity of military life and a testament to the impact of the magazine on soldiers’ lives and morale.

And the magazine returned the favor. Long after the war ended, it funded documentaries on the war, Agent Orange research and post-traumatic stress disorder studies. It is a commitment that testifies to this enduring relationship between the publication and the soldier, and reveals how the magazine is a surprising legacy of one of America’s longest wars.

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## Viet

*President of Vietnam to Visit Russia in June*
07:56 21.02.2017


_




© SPUTNIK/ RAMIL SITDIKOV
Russian Upper House Speaker to Visit Vietnam on February 20-22_


HANOI (Sputnik) — Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang will pay official visit to Russia in June, Russian Upper House Speaker Valentina Matvienko said on Tuesday.

"An official visit of the Vietnamese president to Russia will take place in June," Matvienko said.

Matvienko is currently on a two-day visit to Vietnam.

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## Viet

Minister of Public Security To Lam visits Belarusian President Aleksandr Lukashenko, and attends a parade of police force in Minsk.







20 years since establishment of Riot police

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## Aqsuperman

Towed Artillery of the VPA






The elderly Zis 3 light field gun. Pretty prominent in island fortifications. Usually held back in the bunker complex like the above and can be brought out in less than 2 minute. Awesome rate of fire too. 






85mm D-44 anti tank gun. Also stationed mostly in islands but also at vantage points across the border. Only useful against infantry and light armor such as IFV and APC though. Tanks will be deal with my more modern elements






The giant 152mm D-20. Packed quite a punch with HE round. Rate of fire is low though. Range is also shorter than M46






Good old M101 105mm. A lot of stuffs were captured after the war but only this and the M113 remain in regular and active service. High rate of fire and very accurate for a tactical howitzer.

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## Viet

So the latest Hollywood movie "Kong: Skull Island" is going on cinema screen world wide. Most of the scenes were shot in Vietnam, featuring a weird plot between King Kong and Vietnam war. Anyone has interest to see the film? 







Not all fim critics celebrate the film. But the girl in the movie, oscar winning actress Brie Larson, may motivate some to go to cinema

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> So the latest Hollywood movie "Kong: Skull Island" is going on cinema screen world wide. Most of the scenes were shot in Vietnam, featuring a weird plot between King Kong and Vietnam war. Anyone has interest to see the film?
> 
> View attachment 382867
> 
> 
> 
> Not all fim critics celebrate the film. But the girl in the movie, oscar winning actress Brie Larson, may motivate some to go to cinema



Guess I'll watch it for the plot then. @Hell hound @friendly_troll96 @django @Zibago @khanz

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## Viet

@Nilgiri 

India Military Academy

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## Hell hound

Nilgiri said:


> Guess I'll watch it for the plot then. @Hell hound


Me too mate

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> @Nilgiri
> 
> India Military Academy



Great to see! The cooperation at IMA goes back quite a while to the 90s I believe.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Eyes Israel's Delilah Standoff Missile, and F-16s Could **Be Next*

*Vietnam is looking at ways to boost their offensive capabilities in order to counterbalance China's South China Sea military buildup, and Israel could have just what they need at a very attractive price. *
BY TYLER ROGOWAYMARCH 10, 2017

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ilah-standoff-missile-and-f-16s-could-be-next

China's militarization of its man-made islands in the South China Sea and the resulting anti-access/area-denial bubbles that will cover massive swaths of that body of water in the not-so-distant future, has Vietnam shopping for weaponry that can counter Beijing's grand plans. Hanoi has already forward-deployed Israeli-built GPS-guided Extra multiple launch rocket systems to their own islands in the South China Sea—a weapon system that could rain down rockets on China's outposts with little warning. Now, Vietnam is looking towards Israel once again for its weapons needs, this time to provide an standoff multi-role cruise missile that can strike targets over 150 miles away with pinpoint accuracy.

According to Flightglobal.com, Israel's Delilah missile system was a topic of discussion between Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang and Israel Military Industries chairman Yitzhak Aharonovitch while he was visiting Hanoi.

Israel Military Industries Delilah air-launched cruise missile has evolved over the last decade to become a reliable, highly flexible and extremely accurate standoff weapon. Delilah is quite compact when it comes to cruise missiles, weighing in at just over 400 pounds. It can pack different warheads in the 50 to 75 pound weight class and flies to its target at subsonic speeds and at various altitudes. The missile evolved from an air-launched decoy design, having roots going back decades, but its first known operational use was in 2006 against targets in Lebanon. Since then it has been a front-line weapon of choice for the IAF and it would have been heavily used in an Israeli offensive against Iranian nuclear and air defense sites if that operation were to have been launched.





IAF
Delilah uses inertial navigation with embedded GPS coupled to an autopilot for down-range navigation, and then it can switch to imaging infrared or CCD imaging for terminal guidance. It does this via data link allowing for man-in-the-loop control of the missile for final targeting. What this means is that a weapon system officer in the back of a fighter jet 150 miles away can make fine tuned adjustments on the missile's point of impact, giving the missile an extreme level of accuracy.

For instance, instead of hitting a designated building, a controller can have Delilah fly through an air duct or window on that building. It can also hit a moving vehicles and can be used as an anti-ship missile. Israel has long chosen a man-in-the-loop control option for some of their most capable air-to-ground missiles. The much larger AGM-142 Have Nap/Popeye missile, and even the much smaller anti-armor Spike/Tammuz missile use similar control concepts.

Delilah can also loiter over a target area, throttling back its turbojet engine to conserve fuel, and be retargeted on the fly. It can even be told to "go around" if the target can not be identified clearly by the operator. Although it is a key feature of the missile's design, this man-in-the-loop control concept is not absolutely necessary. The weapon can also attack fixed targets autonomously using GPS/INS guidance alone. Delilah can also be configured for the suppression/destruction of enemy air defenses role where it loiters over an area for a period of time. Once it detects an enemy radar emitter it homes in on that target and destroys it.

Although Delilah is best known as a fighter-launched medium range multi-role missile, because of its small size and relatively light weight it can also be carried by helicopters and can even be deployed via ground launchers.

IMI has been working on more advanced versions of the Delilah for export purposes, ones that could feature more range and warhead choices, and are capable of avoiding or attacking air defenses autonomously. Additionally, automatic target recognition and scene mapping capabilities could take the place of man-in-the-loop targeting for certain missions. Similar abilities are being integrated into the latest Tomahawk cruise missiles as well as Lockheed's promising and very stealthy Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), among others.

So what you have here is a single missile that can accomplish what a series of discreet missiles types would be traditionally needed to do so. Which along with its range and size make it perfect for a country that needs a diverse set of standoff missile capabilities but is on a tight budget. As an air launched system, a Vietnamese fixed-wing aircraft would have to fly just 150 miles from Vietnamese mainland before launching a Delilah missile at a target on China's sprawling Fiery Cross Reef island outpost. A Delilah missile could reach China's strategic Hainan Island without needing an aircraft delivery system at all, instead it could be shore-launched. As such, you can see how the system is uniquely suited for Vietnam's regional needs, and the fact that it can attack ships too makes it all that more attractive.





IAF
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=156&v=OtuEDR9kRBc

There is the issue of what Vietnamese aircraft would put such a missile to use. Their Su-30MK2 Flankers could possibly be adapted to employ the missile, and it would not be the first time Israeli avionics found their way into to Russia's iconic heavy-fighter design. Vietnam's Russian-built helicopters could also be adapted to sport the missile, but it would not be ideal. Beyond their existing fighter platforms, Vietnam may also opt to procure western fighter aircraft, and there are rumblings that this could be underway as part of a larger initiative to turn away from Hanoi's traditional sources of weaponry.

Israel may have just the jets to sell them with their new missiles—40 surplus F-16A/Bs "Netz" fighters that are currently up for sale. Israel Aerospace Industries could refurbish these jets indigenously with advanced multi-mode radars, electronic warfare suites and new cockpit avionics. Additionally, IAI can also apply structural upgrades to the used jets to give them thousands of hours of additional service life. Doing so would give Vietnam a uniquely capable and supportable western fighter aircraft that is tailored to employ the Delilah missile, along with other Israeli-built air-ground and air-to-air munitions—and they would not have to deal with the Washington bureaucracy to obtain them.





IAI
If Vietnam were to execute such a strategy, China would not be happy. But considering the changing geopolitical and military realities in Southeast Asia, Vietnam has to do something to further bolster its offensive capabilities. Seeing that a unique Israeli weapon system is already being by Vietnam used to counter-balance China's military expansion in the region, it makes sense that Hanoi would go to the same source to continue doing so, especially if that source can provide big capabilities at a relatively low price. Not just that, but with Vietnam spending increasing defense dollars with Israel for other air combat needs, including ordering high-end SPYDER air defense systems, getting a fighter aircraft that can interoperate intimately with these systems is only logical.

One thing is for certain—fielding a couple squadrons of highly upgraded F-16s armed with Delilah missiles would give Vietnam a considerable boost in power projection capabilities, and would be a worthwhile step in countering China's military expansion into the South China Sea.

_Contact the author: Tyler@thedrive.com_

ISRAEL RETIRES THE F-16A/B “NETZ” AND PUTS 40 UP FOR SALEBy Tyler RogowayPosted in THE WAR ZONE

*These are the F-16's that Vietnam is considering to purchase:*

*Israel Retires The F-16A/B “Netz” And Puts 40 Up For Sale*

*The beloved Netz may still have some life left to give.*

The IAF just said goodbye to a very dear friend. The General Dynamics F-16A/B “Netz” (Hawk) has been retired after 36 years of history making service. Following the type’s retirement, Israel put 40 of the jets up for sale.Maybe even more than the McDonnell Douglas F-15A/B Baz that came before it, the F-16A/B Netz revolutionized the way the Israeli Air Force fights. Their existence affected the course of history by shifting the strategic equation in the Middle East.

75 “Electric Fighters” were ordered by Israel in 1978 under the Peace Marble I program. The first Block 5 and Block 10 (later upgraded to a common Block 10 configuration) jets outfitted with Israeli modifications and desert camouflage arrived Ramat David AFB in Israel in July of 1980. These aircraft were originally intended for the Shah of Iran, Israel originally procured the type more as a response to the high cost of the F-15 Eagle than anything else. With those costs in mind and a bargain on the new aircraft to be had, the IAF decided that a high-low capability mix was needed to firmly establish Israel’s air superiority in the region.

Just a matter of weeks after the first Israeli Air Force F-16s arrived, the type was declared operational. Not long after the jets were pressed into combat, a first for the F-16. On April 28th, 1981, an IAF Netz fighter shot down a Syrian helicopter with its cannon, marking the first air-to-air victory for the F-16. Other Syrian aircraft quickly followed, and the F-16’s reputation for being vicious air-to-air fighter was quickly cemented.





IAF

An F-16B Netz flying high over Israel.

Though the F-16 remains an incredibly deadly air-to-air combatant, the Netz also gave the IDF a new level of precision in the strike role. The jet’s high-tech, constantly computed impact point bombing system allowed for the delivery of hard-hitting 2,000lb bombs with relatively reliable accuracy against large targets. This capability was put to use in dramatic fashion on June 7th, 1981 when a formation of IAF F-16s executed a daring long-range daytime bombing raid on Saddam Hussein’s Osiris nuclear reactor near Baghdad.

Dubbed “Operation Opera,” the mission saw eight F-16As, each loaded with two 2,000lb Mk84 bombs with delay fuses, and six F-15As swoop across the desert to pulverize the heart of Iraq’s burgeoning nuclear program. Against great odds the mission was a massive and history-changing success—and the F-16 made it possible.

At the time, Saddam Hussein was an enemy of the new Iranian regime and thus an ally of the US. If the reactor had not been destroyed, there's a good chance Iraq would have become the first nuclear-armed Arab nation in the Middle East.


The Netz would go on to serve for 36 years with the IAF, seeing countless combat sorties and shooting down dozens of enemy aircraft. A total of 125 F-16A/Bs were delivered to the IAF between 1981 and 1994, in two distinct lots. The initial 75 aircraft were delivered by the end of 1981. A second lot, dubbed Peace Marble IV, saw the introduction of the F-16C/D “Barak” (Lightning) into IAF service in the late ‘80s. Another batch of F-16A/Bs was delivered to Israel in 1994 as thanks for staying out of Operation Desert Storm, even while Iraqi Scud missiles rained down on Israeli territory. A total of 50 US surplus Block 5 and Block 10 F-16s made up the Peace Marble IV program.

Israel’s love affair with the F-16 continued far beyond the Netz or the initial orders of the Barak. More F-16C/Ds and eventually the advanced F-16I Soufa (Storm) would round out the IAF’s F-16 inventory. In recent years the oldest A-models have been retired, including the most combat decorated F-16 of all time. Other remaining A/B models were transferred to the aggressor role with the famed Red Dragon Squadron, or were used as advanced trainers for IAF pilots and weapon systems officers (WSOs).





IAF

Israeli F-16As on the ramp.

Now, as the IAF’s first F-35As arrive and the M346 Lavi fills Israel’s advanced jet trainer role, the Netz have finally been pulled from service. The type had flown 335,000 flight hours and participated in 474,000 sorties during its IAF career, and changed the entire strategic paradigm in the Middle East in the process.

With a massive aid package from the US going into effect, F-35’s beginning to arrive, upgrades on newer fighters underway, and with the F-15 fleet of all generations still going strong, Haarets reports that Israel is putting some of its flyable F-16A/Bs up for sale, along with other surplus hardware:

“Israel's Defense Ministry has announced that it will try to sell the aircraft to foreign forces. Specifically, the ministry’s Defense Aid Branch has advertised that 40 such planes are up for sale, noting that in the IAF they served in a variety of missions and are “especially recommended for attack forces. Israel is also selling another seven Hercules C-130 planes, seven Hawk fighter-interceptor systems, 40 Skyhawk Eagles and eight Cobra helicopters.”





IAF

The F-16A/B, with its simplicity, light weight, and early flight control system remains a very nimble adversary aircraft for fleet pilots to face off against.

It remains unclear exactly who may be a customer for these older F-16s, but Jordan, an ever-closer military ally of Israel, is one possibility. They have bought second-hand European F-16s for years, and Israel would likely cut them a very good deal, even providing upgrades to the jets to make them more relevant to today’s battlefield. In the past Israel has gifted Jordan surplus AH-1 attack helicopters, so there is a chance the jets could be given to Jordan for the price of upgrades alone. It is also possible that a private adversary support contractor could make a play at these surplus F-16s, as the market is set to explode in size in the coming years. Having a true 4th generation threat profile to offer, one that is radar equipped and highly manueverable, is clearly where the field is headed, and Israel's aerospace industry could easily upgrade these jets with modern radars, such as the Elta 2032. In the past Isarel has sold some of its surplus A-4 Skyhawks to adversrary and testing support contractors.

During the jet’s retirement ceremony on December 26th, Colonel Itamar, the commander of Ouvda AFB said these fitting words to commemorate the Netz’ service:

"Today, we say goodbye to an incredible aircraft that seems to have been created by an artist, an aircraft that fits its missions like a glove”





AP

An adversary Netz returns from a training mission.

Lt. Colonel Udi, who commands the much vaunted Red Dragons aggressor squadron, summed up the unique nature of an aircraft that had such a huge impact on Israeli history:

“Today, we sign the last chapter of the 'Netz' aircraft in the IAF… Only those who have touched the aircraft, only those who have been touched by the aircraft, know that the 'Netz' is not just an object - it has a soul.”

Even though the Netz is officially gone from IAF service, you can celebrate the type by watching the ‘80’s cult classic fighter flick_ Iron Eagle_. The film was shot in Israel just a few years after the Netz arrived, and the aircraft is one of the stars of the movie. The film was shot outside the US was because the Pentagon had a policy at the time that the military wouldn't support any Hollywood movie that featured stolen aircraft. Till this day, some of the best air-to-air footage of F-16s can be seen in this film.

_Contact the author Tyler@thedrive.com_


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Acquires Undersea Power*
March 8, 2017 - 11:55am 
http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2017/03/08/vietnam-acquires-undersea-power



*By Sarosh Bana*

As with most countries in the Asia-Pacific littoral, Vietnam is steadily bolstering its military against an increasingly confrontational China. The country’s defense budget has grown almost fourfold in the past decade, from $1.3 billion in 2006 to $5 billion in 2016.

The country of 95 million has complained of numerous transgressions by China since 1957, when both states accepted a land and sea boundary known as “the frontier line.” They even waged a naval battle in 1988 in the disputed South China Sea, in which 64 Vietnamese perished and China took control of the Johnson South Reef.

Vietnam has protested China’s deployment of an oil rig in the disputed waters in 2014 and Beijing’s meddling that led to India’s withdrawal from a joint oil exploration project with Petro-Vietnam in the Phu Khanh Basin. Vietnamese fishing craft also clash frequently with Chinese trawlers near the disputed islands of Paracel and Spratly.

Curiously, both countries have in Russia a common supplier of military hardware. A dozen of China’s 53 diesel-electric submarines are Russian-made. Beijing undoubtedly has one of the largest fleets of attack submarines, including four ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) and six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs). It is close to deploying a powerful undersea nuclear deterrent, with each of its SSBNs to be armed with 12 _JL-2_ missiles that can deliver nuclear warheads at a range of 4,320 nautical miles.

In contrast, Vietnam has only recently begun creating a credible submarine force through an order for six new P-636 submarines from Russia. Hanoi had acquired two Yugo class midget submarines from North Korea in a “guns-for-rice” barter in 1997, but used them primarily for operations and maintenance training.

Vietnam had, in fact, been seeking submarines since the late 1980s, but after negotiations with Moscow that led to a dual training program on a non-nuclear submarine from the Soviet Pacific Fleet, the Soviets backtracked so as not to upset the Chinese. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 further dampened Vietnam’s aspiration for a submarine fleet.

When it finally came about, the $3.2 billion export order in December 2009 for the six P-636s was one of Moscow’s largest for naval hardware. The deal was for the state-owned St. Petersburg-based shipyard, Admiralteiskie Verfi (Admiralty Wharf) to build and weaponize the boats, train Vietnamese crews in Russia, and build a submarine facility at the Cam Ranh Bay deepwater harbor, an inlet in southeast Vietnam close enough to the Paracels to create a deterrent.

The P-636 submarine is nicknamed a “black hole” by the U.S. Navy for its extreme stealth, as it is considered the quietest diesel-electric submarine in the world. The version Vietnam is importing, the P-636MV, is superior in several ways to their older variant, the P-636MK, which Beijing bought from Russia in 1999. The P-636MV’s stealth features have been improved through the removal of flood ports (which channel seawater to ballast tanks) and a hull layered with echo-free rubber tiles. The P-636MV surpasses the P-636MK in terms of range, speed, reliability, sea endurance, acoustic characteristics, and firepower.

Designed primarily for anti-submarine and anti-surface-ship warfare, as well as for general reconnaissance and patrol missions, the P-636 submarine offers enhanced combat effectiveness. It can be armed with radar-guided torpedoes, underwater mines, or torpedo tube-launched cruise missiles like those used by the Russian navy in the ongoing Syrian conflict. It is also capable of detecting an enemy submarine at a range three to four times greater than the range at which it can be detected itself.

All six of Vietnam’s submarines are recent acquisitions—they entered service between January 2014 and January 2017. They will operate under the People’s Army of Vietnam Navy’s Submarine Brigade 189. “Up to now, the Brigade has fully mastered the submarines,” notes a Vietnamese government statement.

The land attack cruise missiles arming this underwater fleet will accord Vietnam a potent deterrent that queers China’s strategic calculations in the South China Sea. These precision strike missiles can reach such strategic targets as military installations in Guangdong province’s Zhanjiang, where China’s South Sea Fleet headquarters is located, and the Yalong Bay naval base in Hainan, China’s southernmost province where its nuclear submarines are based. 

China, however, is no sitting duck. The People’s Liberation Army Navy has deployed three SSBNs at Hainan and may have also deployed its SSNs. Its newest conventional submarines are also based at Yalong Bay.

As Vietnam expands its naval forces, it is mindful of the fact that although China is a daunting adversary, submarines can be a great equalizer—especially when they are near impossible to detect and have recourse to effective firepower. Some Chinese experts feel that while Beijing need not fear an immediate submarine threat from Vietnam, the effect of this buildup cannot be underestimated and may start to raise concerns.

Russia has transferred all the technologies Vietnam needs to operate the submarines, but it is not Hanoi’s only major ally. India, too, is providing training to Vietnamese crews, as Indian forces have experience operating Russian submarines in waters of a similar temperature. With both Russian and Indian support, Vietnam’s submarine force will likely soon reach full combat capability. Hanoi is assiduously building up its ability to project power in the region and defend its maritime interests.

_Sarosh Bana is the executive editor of_ Business India.

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## Viet

Surveillance radar made by Viettel. Besides the company can make most 4G components for mobile communications.











_



_

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## Viet

Besides Viettel, the other major telco player VNPT has began setting up factories to mass produce glas Fibre and telco devices for domestic and foreign markets. The company reports having introduced its products to 30 countries last year.

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## Viet

a domestic made underwater UAV yk-01





The most heavy artillery in the army: 152mm howitzer, max range 17.4km

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## fadine

Viettel made new missile: VCM-01


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## Viet

Making history

For the first time ever, a president of South Korea, Park Geun-hye, is forcefully removed from power. Looking back, we should remember of her great contribution to pushing the Vietnam-Korea relationship to a level never seen in history. Under her reign, South Korea provides ODA, technical assistance, cheap loans, transfers technology, signs FTA, pours massive money into Vietnam manufacturing industry, last but not least she tirelessly promotes cultural ties, friendship with Vietnam.

Farewell Ms Park!


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam Eyes Israel's Delilah Standoff Missile, and F-16s Could **Be Next*
> 
> *Vietnam is looking at ways to boost their offensive capabilities in order to counterbalance China's South China Sea military buildup, and Israel could have just what they need at a very attractive price. *
> BY TYLER ROGOWAYMARCH 10, 2017
> 
> http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ilah-standoff-missile-and-f-16s-could-be-next
> 
> China's militarization of its man-made islands in the South China Sea and the resulting anti-access/area-denial bubbles that will cover massive swaths of that body of water in the not-so-distant future, has Vietnam shopping for weaponry that can counter Beijing's grand plans. Hanoi has already forward-deployed Israeli-built GPS-guided Extra multiple launch rocket systems to their own islands in the South China Sea—a weapon system that could rain down rockets on China's outposts with little warning. Now, Vietnam is looking towards Israel once again for its weapons needs, this time to provide an standoff multi-role cruise missile that can strike targets over 150 miles away with pinpoint accuracy.
> 
> According to Flightglobal.com, Israel's Delilah missile system was a topic of discussion between Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang and Israel Military Industries chairman Yitzhak Aharonovitch while he was visiting Hanoi.
> 
> Israel Military Industries Delilah air-launched cruise missile has evolved over the last decade to become a reliable, highly flexible and extremely accurate standoff weapon. Delilah is quite compact when it comes to cruise missiles, weighing in at just over 400 pounds. It can pack different warheads in the 50 to 75 pound weight class and flies to its target at subsonic speeds and at various altitudes. The missile evolved from an air-launched decoy design, having roots going back decades, but its first known operational use was in 2006 against targets in Lebanon. Since then it has been a front-line weapon of choice for the IAF and it would have been heavily used in an Israeli offensive against Iranian nuclear and air defense sites if that operation were to have been launched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF
> Delilah uses inertial navigation with embedded GPS coupled to an autopilot for down-range navigation, and then it can switch to imaging infrared or CCD imaging for terminal guidance. It does this via data link allowing for man-in-the-loop control of the missile for final targeting. What this means is that a weapon system officer in the back of a fighter jet 150 miles away can make fine tuned adjustments on the missile's point of impact, giving the missile an extreme level of accuracy.
> 
> For instance, instead of hitting a designated building, a controller can have Delilah fly through an air duct or window on that building. It can also hit a moving vehicles and can be used as an anti-ship missile. Israel has long chosen a man-in-the-loop control option for some of their most capable air-to-ground missiles. The much larger AGM-142 Have Nap/Popeye missile, and even the much smaller anti-armor Spike/Tammuz missile use similar control concepts.
> 
> Delilah can also loiter over a target area, throttling back its turbojet engine to conserve fuel, and be retargeted on the fly. It can even be told to "go around" if the target can not be identified clearly by the operator. Although it is a key feature of the missile's design, this man-in-the-loop control concept is not absolutely necessary. The weapon can also attack fixed targets autonomously using GPS/INS guidance alone. Delilah can also be configured for the suppression/destruction of enemy air defenses role where it loiters over an area for a period of time. Once it detects an enemy radar emitter it homes in on that target and destroys it.
> 
> Although Delilah is best known as a fighter-launched medium range multi-role missile, because of its small size and relatively light weight it can also be carried by helicopters and can even be deployed via ground launchers.
> 
> IMI has been working on more advanced versions of the Delilah for export purposes, ones that could feature more range and warhead choices, and are capable of avoiding or attacking air defenses autonomously. Additionally, automatic target recognition and scene mapping capabilities could take the place of man-in-the-loop targeting for certain missions. Similar abilities are being integrated into the latest Tomahawk cruise missiles as well as Lockheed's promising and very stealthy Long-Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM), among others.
> 
> So what you have here is a single missile that can accomplish what a series of discreet missiles types would be traditionally needed to do so. Which along with its range and size make it perfect for a country that needs a diverse set of standoff missile capabilities but is on a tight budget. As an air launched system, a Vietnamese fixed-wing aircraft would have to fly just 150 miles from Vietnamese mainland before launching a Delilah missile at a target on China's sprawling Fiery Cross Reef island outpost. A Delilah missile could reach China's strategic Hainan Island without needing an aircraft delivery system at all, instead it could be shore-launched. As such, you can see how the system is uniquely suited for Vietnam's regional needs, and the fact that it can attack ships too makes it all that more attractive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF
> Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=156&v=OtuEDR9kRBc
> 
> There is the issue of what Vietnamese aircraft would put such a missile to use. Their Su-30MK2 Flankers could possibly be adapted to employ the missile, and it would not be the first time Israeli avionics found their way into to Russia's iconic heavy-fighter design. Vietnam's Russian-built helicopters could also be adapted to sport the missile, but it would not be ideal. Beyond their existing fighter platforms, Vietnam may also opt to procure western fighter aircraft, and there are rumblings that this could be underway as part of a larger initiative to turn away from Hanoi's traditional sources of weaponry.
> 
> Israel may have just the jets to sell them with their new missiles—40 surplus F-16A/Bs "Netz" fighters that are currently up for sale. Israel Aerospace Industries could refurbish these jets indigenously with advanced multi-mode radars, electronic warfare suites and new cockpit avionics. Additionally, IAI can also apply structural upgrades to the used jets to give them thousands of hours of additional service life. Doing so would give Vietnam a uniquely capable and supportable western fighter aircraft that is tailored to employ the Delilah missile, along with other Israeli-built air-ground and air-to-air munitions—and they would not have to deal with the Washington bureaucracy to obtain them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAI
> If Vietnam were to execute such a strategy, China would not be happy. But considering the changing geopolitical and military realities in Southeast Asia, Vietnam has to do something to further bolster its offensive capabilities. Seeing that a unique Israeli weapon system is already being by Vietnam used to counter-balance China's military expansion in the region, it makes sense that Hanoi would go to the same source to continue doing so, especially if that source can provide big capabilities at a relatively low price. Not just that, but with Vietnam spending increasing defense dollars with Israel for other air combat needs, including ordering high-end SPYDER air defense systems, getting a fighter aircraft that can interoperate intimately with these systems is only logical.
> 
> One thing is for certain—fielding a couple squadrons of highly upgraded F-16s armed with Delilah missiles would give Vietnam a considerable boost in power projection capabilities, and would be a worthwhile step in countering China's military expansion into the South China Sea.
> 
> _Contact the author: Tyler@thedrive.com_
> 
> ISRAEL RETIRES THE F-16A/B “NETZ” AND PUTS 40 UP FOR SALEBy Tyler RogowayPosted in THE WAR ZONE
> 
> *These are the F-16's that Vietnam is considering to purchase:*
> 
> *Israel Retires The F-16A/B “Netz” And Puts 40 Up For Sale*
> 
> *The beloved Netz may still have some life left to give.*
> 
> The IAF just said goodbye to a very dear friend. The General Dynamics F-16A/B “Netz” (Hawk) has been retired after 36 years of history making service. Following the type’s retirement, Israel put 40 of the jets up for sale.Maybe even more than the McDonnell Douglas F-15A/B Baz that came before it, the F-16A/B Netz revolutionized the way the Israeli Air Force fights. Their existence affected the course of history by shifting the strategic equation in the Middle East.
> 
> 75 “Electric Fighters” were ordered by Israel in 1978 under the Peace Marble I program. The first Block 5 and Block 10 (later upgraded to a common Block 10 configuration) jets outfitted with Israeli modifications and desert camouflage arrived Ramat David AFB in Israel in July of 1980. These aircraft were originally intended for the Shah of Iran, Israel originally procured the type more as a response to the high cost of the F-15 Eagle than anything else. With those costs in mind and a bargain on the new aircraft to be had, the IAF decided that a high-low capability mix was needed to firmly establish Israel’s air superiority in the region.
> 
> Just a matter of weeks after the first Israeli Air Force F-16s arrived, the type was declared operational. Not long after the jets were pressed into combat, a first for the F-16. On April 28th, 1981, an IAF Netz fighter shot down a Syrian helicopter with its cannon, marking the first air-to-air victory for the F-16. Other Syrian aircraft quickly followed, and the F-16’s reputation for being vicious air-to-air fighter was quickly cemented.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF
> 
> An F-16B Netz flying high over Israel.
> 
> Though the F-16 remains an incredibly deadly air-to-air combatant, the Netz also gave the IDF a new level of precision in the strike role. The jet’s high-tech, constantly computed impact point bombing system allowed for the delivery of hard-hitting 2,000lb bombs with relatively reliable accuracy against large targets. This capability was put to use in dramatic fashion on June 7th, 1981 when a formation of IAF F-16s executed a daring long-range daytime bombing raid on Saddam Hussein’s Osiris nuclear reactor near Baghdad.
> 
> Dubbed “Operation Opera,” the mission saw eight F-16As, each loaded with two 2,000lb Mk84 bombs with delay fuses, and six F-15As swoop across the desert to pulverize the heart of Iraq’s burgeoning nuclear program. Against great odds the mission was a massive and history-changing success—and the F-16 made it possible.
> 
> At the time, Saddam Hussein was an enemy of the new Iranian regime and thus an ally of the US. If the reactor had not been destroyed, there's a good chance Iraq would have become the first nuclear-armed Arab nation in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> The Netz would go on to serve for 36 years with the IAF, seeing countless combat sorties and shooting down dozens of enemy aircraft. A total of 125 F-16A/Bs were delivered to the IAF between 1981 and 1994, in two distinct lots. The initial 75 aircraft were delivered by the end of 1981. A second lot, dubbed Peace Marble IV, saw the introduction of the F-16C/D “Barak” (Lightning) into IAF service in the late ‘80s. Another batch of F-16A/Bs was delivered to Israel in 1994 as thanks for staying out of Operation Desert Storm, even while Iraqi Scud missiles rained down on Israeli territory. A total of 50 US surplus Block 5 and Block 10 F-16s made up the Peace Marble IV program.
> 
> Israel’s love affair with the F-16 continued far beyond the Netz or the initial orders of the Barak. More F-16C/Ds and eventually the advanced F-16I Soufa (Storm) would round out the IAF’s F-16 inventory. In recent years the oldest A-models have been retired, including the most combat decorated F-16 of all time. Other remaining A/B models were transferred to the aggressor role with the famed Red Dragon Squadron, or were used as advanced trainers for IAF pilots and weapon systems officers (WSOs).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF
> 
> Israeli F-16As on the ramp.
> 
> Now, as the IAF’s first F-35As arrive and the M346 Lavi fills Israel’s advanced jet trainer role, the Netz have finally been pulled from service. The type had flown 335,000 flight hours and participated in 474,000 sorties during its IAF career, and changed the entire strategic paradigm in the Middle East in the process.
> 
> With a massive aid package from the US going into effect, F-35’s beginning to arrive, upgrades on newer fighters underway, and with the F-15 fleet of all generations still going strong, Haarets reports that Israel is putting some of its flyable F-16A/Bs up for sale, along with other surplus hardware:
> 
> “Israel's Defense Ministry has announced that it will try to sell the aircraft to foreign forces. Specifically, the ministry’s Defense Aid Branch has advertised that 40 such planes are up for sale, noting that in the IAF they served in a variety of missions and are “especially recommended for attack forces. Israel is also selling another seven Hercules C-130 planes, seven Hawk fighter-interceptor systems, 40 Skyhawk Eagles and eight Cobra helicopters.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IAF
> 
> The F-16A/B, with its simplicity, light weight, and early flight control system remains a very nimble adversary aircraft for fleet pilots to face off against.
> 
> It remains unclear exactly who may be a customer for these older F-16s, but Jordan, an ever-closer military ally of Israel, is one possibility. They have bought second-hand European F-16s for years, and Israel would likely cut them a very good deal, even providing upgrades to the jets to make them more relevant to today’s battlefield. In the past Israel has gifted Jordan surplus AH-1 attack helicopters, so there is a chance the jets could be given to Jordan for the price of upgrades alone. It is also possible that a private adversary support contractor could make a play at these surplus F-16s, as the market is set to explode in size in the coming years. Having a true 4th generation threat profile to offer, one that is radar equipped and highly manueverable, is clearly where the field is headed, and Israel's aerospace industry could easily upgrade these jets with modern radars, such as the Elta 2032. In the past Isarel has sold some of its surplus A-4 Skyhawks to adversrary and testing support contractors.
> 
> During the jet’s retirement ceremony on December 26th, Colonel Itamar, the commander of Ouvda AFB said these fitting words to commemorate the Netz’ service:
> 
> "Today, we say goodbye to an incredible aircraft that seems to have been created by an artist, an aircraft that fits its missions like a glove”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AP
> 
> An adversary Netz returns from a training mission.
> 
> Lt. Colonel Udi, who commands the much vaunted Red Dragons aggressor squadron, summed up the unique nature of an aircraft that had such a huge impact on Israeli history:
> 
> “Today, we sign the last chapter of the 'Netz' aircraft in the IAF… Only those who have touched the aircraft, only those who have been touched by the aircraft, know that the 'Netz' is not just an object - it has a soul.”
> 
> Even though the Netz is officially gone from IAF service, you can celebrate the type by watching the ‘80’s cult classic fighter flick_ Iron Eagle_. The film was shot in Israel just a few years after the Netz arrived, and the aircraft is one of the stars of the movie. The film was shot outside the US was because the Pentagon had a policy at the time that the military wouldn't support any Hollywood movie that featured stolen aircraft. Till this day, some of the best air-to-air footage of F-16s can be seen in this film.
> 
> _Contact the author Tyler@thedrive.com_


one su-30mk2 can carry 12 Deliah missiles; say goodbye to that Brahmin missile. Deliah missile is even lighter than the Russian A2A missiles.


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## Viet

The Marines

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> The Marines



Looks like Meprolight optics on the tavors. Good choice!

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## Nike

standard Tavor, though the user is Marines. Why not into coating/marinized .....


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> standard Tavor, though the user is Marines. Why not into coating/marinized .....


Coating? I have no clue. Personally I would pick Galil 32, but the Marines use Tavor probably because it is lightweight and versatile. Tavor is standard assault rifle for Israeli infantry.

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## jhungary

Nilgiri said:


> Looks like Meprolight optics on the tavors. Good choice!



i tried neprolight, for some reason I don't like the contrast, you will need to adjust the sight a lot and the all in one thing, I am not really used to it. I would rather go back to eclan 430 but many people tell me they like this sight, so, I guess, it's just me....

Also, Maybe I am used to the ballistic drop indicator from ACOG, the lacking of it (or maybe I don't know how to fix it as I said, it's a bit complicated for a All-In-One sight.) make me feel like I am constantly losing something.

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## Aqsuperman

madokafc said:


> standard Tavor, though the user is Marines. Why not into coating/marinized .....



Nah, given the limited time we may spend on the beach, the primary combat ground would be inland and the color black is not that recognizable with sand the background anyway.

I find this picture to be a bit funny so i post it. Female is not eligible for conscription in Vietnam though one may volunteer, still, they still have to take part general military compulsory lesson like their male counterpart. And.........as you can see, they dont take it serious at all :v

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> i tried neprolight, for some reason I don't like the contrast, you will need to adjust the sight a lot and the all in one thing, I am not really used to it. I would rather go back to eclan 430 but many people tell me they like this sight, so, I guess, it's just me....
> 
> Also, Maybe I am used to the ballistic drop indicator from ACOG, the lacking of it (or maybe I don't know how to fix it as I said, it's a bit complicated for a All-In-One sight.) make me feel like I am constantly losing something.


So classical long view finder is better? I wonder how can such a tinny viewer as neprolight can perform in combat?


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## Viet

General Ngo visits Thailand military led government. The Thai hold a key position in peace and stability on indochinese mainland.

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## Viet

Russia air acrobatics returns to Vietnam. Now with Su-30SM instead of Su-27.














Mohan Kumar, India secretary of defense on a visit to the army headquarters. Win-win if Vietnam and India can strike a missile deal: Vietnam agrees to acquire Akash short range anti aircraft missile system and India agrees to selling and handover of the technology of the new Mach-3 Brahmos cruise missiles (450 km).

@Nilgiri

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> So classical long view finder is better? I wonder how can such a tinny viewer as neprolight can perform in combat?



Meprolight is a reflex sight, it's not a traditional sight like ACOG or Aimpoint Red Dot M2. It does not do what most combat optic do, you uses reflex sight for quick reference,

The problem that got me the most is that the reflective dot is not bright enough and cannot compensate for the environment automatically. Which kind of sucks....

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## Viet

Women power. Pany Yathotou (left), Chairwomen of the Laos National Assembly paid a visit to Vietnam. two strategically interesting agreements: the construction of a six-lane 707-kilometre route with a cost of $4.5 billion linking Lao and Vietnam capital will start later this year 2017. Also the construction of a railway to connect landlocked Laos with the South China Sea via Vietnam territory for an undisclosed sum. once completed, Vietnam will control all of Laos exports and imports via sea route as all goods will be unloaded at a Vietnamese seaport: Vung-Ang.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/aec/asean_plus/30308512

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> So classical long view finder is better? I wonder how can such a tinny viewer as neprolight can perform in combat?



Grunts seem to prefer reflex sights for assault rifles given their effective range anyway.

Beats having to use irons and is not as cumbersome as a proper scope for short and even mid range action.






You can see the contrast issue that jhungary is talking about around 2 minute mark, I think it would be a personal choice as to the best amount to have.



Viet said:


> Mohan Kumar, India secretary of defense on a visit to the army headquarters. Win-win if Vietnam and India can strike a missile deal: Vietnam agrees to acquire Akash short range anti aircraft missile system and India agrees to selling and handover of the technology of the new Mach-3 Brahmos cruise missiles (450 km).



I hope it happens! It will open up avenues for further cooperation.

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## jhungary

Nilgiri said:


> Grunts seem to prefer reflex sights for assault rifles given their effective range anyway.
> 
> Beats having to use irons and is not as cumbersome as a proper scope for short and even mid range action.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the contrast issue that jhungary is talking about around 2 minute mark, I think it would be a personal choice as to the best amount to have.



I would say half and half, half of the people I know like reflex, half doesn't. I guess it come down to how you use your rifle to be honest. I like to use it like a binocular, which I can scan target and adjust my range with, and I usually go for shot with accuracy, and my shooting sucks, so I have to aim a long time, that prompt me to use Combat Optics like ACOG or Aimpoint.

Reflex sight is for quick reference, if you go into close combat a lot, reflex sight is definitely gonna help you break the need for a quick reference. I know quite a lot of guys using both (an RMR on top of TA-31) on their rifle, I don't do that, but I do know this is quite popular choice soldier uses nowadays.

However, I have to confess, I have a RMR reflex sight on my sidearm when I was over there and I am currently using it on my pistol for IPSC.

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## Carlosa

Latest pic of the land reclamation in Spratly Island:

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## Viet

March 7, Vietnam Ambassador to the US Pham Quang Vinh hosts one of most influential Israel lobby groups in the United States in the house: the American Jewish Committee (AJC). Member of US National Security Council, Political Counsellor of Israel, AJC Associate Executive Director are attending the event.

@DavidSling

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## Viet

Korea´s Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se visits Vietnam on Sunday this week. Yes, Korea is welcome to join Tpp and increases all sorts of investments from setting up new factories to transferring of technologies in Vietnam. No, I don´t think we will support South Korea to put more pressure on North Korea.

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## Viet

*Kazakhstan*

a commercial news with a major strategic intention behind the move. for the first time ever, a Kazakh cargo train loaded with 700 MT grain on 32 containers heading to Vietnam, via China, shortening Vietnam´s trading route to Europe.

http://www.blackseagrain.net/novost...ransport-corridor-for-wheat-supply-to-Vietnam

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## Carlosa

*Time for a Closer U.S.-Vietnam Relationship*
Robert C. Thomas
March 14, 2017

http://www.realcleardefense.com/art..._a_closer_us-vietnam_relationship_110967.html

The United States has a curious history of forging particularly close relationships with countries with which it was once at war – just ask Germany, Japan, and the United States’ colonial parent the United Kingdom. Recent trends suggest that it is time for the United States to add Vietnam to that list. Officially Communist, Vietnam might seem like an odd partner for the United States. However, U.S. security interests in Southeast Asia, the clear preference of Vietnamese officials for closer ties, and the opportunity to improve governance and human rights protections in Vietnam should make a U.S. push for closer relations, an uncontroversial priority. 

The top question to ask of any new international relationship is what interest it serves that would not be met otherwise. U.S. economic and security interests in Southeast Asia are immense, with over 60 percent of U.S. exports flowing throughout the broader Asia-Pacific region. Vietnam is strategically located next to the Southeast Asian trade choke points and the South China Sea. Given China’s role as both a top trade partner and frequent geopolitical rival of the United States, its reliance on shipments of oil and other goods through the South China Sea only magnifies the area’s importance.

Historically, the United States has relied on the Philippines and Thailand as key Southeast Asian partners, but the reliability of these partnerships has been called into question. Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has made recurring statements for downgrading U.S. ties. Additionally, given the potential instability of Thailand’s military Junta, especially without the steady hand of the now deceased long-time ally King Bhumibol Adulyadej, the future of the country’s relationship isunclear. The unstable and uncertain nature of these historical alliances should motivate the United States to diversify its partnerships in that region. Vietnam is well positioned to step into the gap as a strong and stable regional trade and security partner.

Vietnamese leaders have already demonstrated a concrete interest in closer economic and security ties with the United States. In 2015, the Vietnamese Communist Party General Secretary, Nguyen Phu Trong, visited the United States as part of an unprecedented high-level meeting aimed at strengthening relations. This was in part an attempt by Vietnamese leaders to reduce their country's dependence on (and resulting vulnerability to) their powerful Chinese neighbors. In addition to Vietnam's disproportionate economic dependence on China, the two countries remain locked in a tense territorial dispute in the South China Sea. Perhaps reflecting these concerns, polls show that the Vietnamese public’s opinion of the United States is much more favorable than its opinion of China. The combination of clear strategic incentives for Vietnam, support for closer ties with Vietnamese leaders, and a positive view of the United States among the Vietnamese public should make the opportunity to tighten the relationship a clear case of low-hanging fruit for U.S. policymakers and diplomats.

Vietnam’s poor human rights record remains the main sticking point for US policymakers. However, past U.S. policy toward the Vietnamese government has failed to produce any serious improvement in the country’s human rights situation in the decades since the Vietnam War. In fact, the primary leverage that the United States has over Vietnamese policy is precisely through the potential economic and security benefits that a closer bilateral relationship would offer. The United States, therefore, has a chance to incentivize improved human rights practices in Vietnam through carrots instead of sticks.

There are several ways in which U.S. policymakers can capitalize on this opportunity. Although the Vietnamese government seems to have reduced its focus on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) since it became clear that the United States would not participate, it remains committed to boosting international trade as an economic priority. U.S. and Vietnamese officials could revisit some of their respective proposals and goals from the recent TPP negotiations as a starting point for a new bilateral trade agreement. Additionally, the Obama Administration ended a long-standing U.S. arms embargo on Vietnam in 2016, which opened the door for defense procurement deals and other forms of military cooperation. The United States could work to secure Vietnamese participation in multilateral exercises, such as the Rim of the Pacific drills. Offering incentives on both the economic and military fronts in exchange for U.S. expert assistance on issues like the rule of law, human rights, and transparency in daily governance, for example, could prove more effective than top-down mandates on human rights issues directed at senior leaders in Hanoi.

So far, the Trump administration has provided little detail on how it will approach issues in Southeast Asia, beyond taking a tough line on China’s expansive territorial claims in the South China Sea. The administration should recognize the opportunity that strengthened bilateral ties with Vietnam would provide to secure US interests and positions in this critical region.

_*Robert C. Thomas* is an Asia-Pacific Fellow at Young Professionals in Foreign Policy (YPFP). He is also a government security contractor and the Managing Editor of Parabellum Report. Robert expects to receive his MA in Ethics and Public Affairs from George Mason University in 2017._

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## Viet

105mm artillery gun on truck.
Nice but there are still some problems to be solved. Developing granate autoloading system, armor protection for the crew and logistics.

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## Viet

Industry
*Vietnam, Netherlands look to boost defence industry co-operation*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry 
15 March 2017

The governments of Vietnam and the Netherlands have said they will look to boost defence co-operation, including in areas of manufacturing and technologies.

The Vietnam Ministry of Defence (MoD) said on 14 March that defence officials from the two countries had agreed to deepen collaboration in activities such as peacekeeping, training and education, defence industry, and related technology transfers.

The MoD also stated that the defence officials from the two countries would look to sign an agreement in the near future to provide a framework for expanded collaboration.

This accord will build on a memorandum of understanding signed by the defence ministries of Vietnam and the Netherlands in 2011, which outlined co-operation in a range of defence and military activities, including potential joint manufacturing activities.

*Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options:　**ihs.com/contact*


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## Viet

*Radio Navigation *

The RSBN-4N round-the-clock, all-weather short-range radio navigation beacon is designed to provide continuous navigation support for military and civil aircraft, and guide them to any point within the beacon's range. The RSBN-4N also supports air traffic control.

The Vietnamese improved version extends the range to 500 km.


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## Viet

Night patrol flight


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## Viet

A further step is made toward Vietnam deployment of modern panzer armies. Vietnamese crews are undergoing trainings in India in operating modern tanks.






Russia air acrobatics team is coming to Vietnam end of the month. The Russians will bring a message.


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## Viet

Beijing, Mar 16

Pham Hoai Nam, commander of Vietnamese Navy meets with Chang Wanquan, China defense minister in Beijing. Maybe there is a need for small talk. Japan sends the largest ever warship since end of WW II, participating naval exercises in the Indian Ocean through the South China Sea: the helicopter carrier Izumo.


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam Mobile Police. Heavily equipped to deal with domestic violence. And in time of war, pretty much a paramilitary force. 




















And for the end, my favorite firing pose: Chicken wing :v

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## Nike

Aqsuperman said:


> Vietnam Mobile Police. Heavily equipped to deal with domestic violence. And in time of war, pretty much a paramilitary force.
> 
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> And for the end, my favorite firing pose: Chicken wing :v



very much like our Brimob

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## Viet

Hunting terrorists: Vietnamese infantry train in the jungle of India.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/as-c...vietnamese-soldiers-in-jungle-warfare-1670325

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Hunting terrorists: Vietnamese infantry train in the jungle of India.
> 
> http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/as-c...vietnamese-soldiers-in-jungle-warfare-1670325


Maybe It is the exchange of the knowledge between two countries, i dont think, we need to learn how to fight in the jungle from anyone


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## Viet

A gift of Japan

A used fishing vessel is converted to a patrol vessel after refurbished and equipped with navigation system. 65.19 metres in length, 9.3 metres wide, 4.3 metres high and has a loaded capacity of 499 tons. It carries a crew of 20. The boat is good for another 40 years.


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## Viet

*Vietnam, Israel optimise cooperation potential*

Last update: 23:16 | 17/03/2017

_Vietnam and Israel should work together in the spirit of creativity and innovation to strengthen bilateral economic cooperation._

Israeli President Reuven Rivlin made the suggestion in a recent interview with Vietnam News Agency on the run up to his upcoming official visit to Vietnam from March 19-25.

The following is the full text of the interview.






_Israeli President Reuven Rivlin (Source: RealClearPolitics)_



*“Q: How do you evaluate the relationship between Israel and Vietnam over the years?*

Israel and Vietnam share a rich and prosperous friendship. This is a friendship between our governments, and between the two peoples. 

We have rapidly growing cooperation and are celebrating nearly a quarter of a century of diplomatic relations but of course, Israel’s first Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion, met with Ho Chi Minh in Paris in 1946, and the friendship they established that day, serves as the foundation for our close ties and strong relationship to this day.

Historically, thousands of years ago our peoples established their sovereign nations. We are countries which have many holy and spiritual sites, which are important to our identities and history. 

We share an appreciation for their preservation and reverence throughout the ages. Indeed, both countries have had similar experiences having to fight against great powers for independence. We both share a deep appreciation for our freedom and right to self-determination.

Economically, Israel respects Vietnam’s development and fast growing economy. Indeed your achievements are admirable, and we look at you through the eyes of our own economy which has developed a strong hi-tech and innovation industry which has led to be known as the Start-Up Nation.

Israel is proud to welcome many hundreds of Vietnamese students on our MASHAV international development program each year, and Vietnam and Israel have become important partners. 

Israel is one of Vietnam's major partners in the Middle East with a bilateral trade volume of US$2.3 billion in 2015. And of course we are currently negotiating a Free Trade Agreement, which I hope will be concluded soon. 

This agreement will form a stronger foundation for our mutual trade and business exchange.

We have so much potential to cooperate in so many fields. Indeed, ‘potential’ is probably the best word to describe our relations. Yes, our cooperation has been most fruitful, but we have to understand – and utilize – the great potential which lies before us. 


*Q: What should both countries do to further enhance diplomatic relationship and bilateral economic co-operation in the near future?*

Vietnamese, like Israelis, have the same dynamic entrepreneurial spirit. So first and foremost, let us work together and cooperate in that spirit of innovation and creativity. 

For Israel, this was born out a lack of natural resources. We had to think ‘outside the box’ to address some of the most daily concerns. 

Accordingly we have developed much technology and know-how in the area of irrigation and water conservation – perhaps the most precious of all resources. 

We work to purify more and more grey water, we work on advancing desalination, and we work to produce water even from thin air. 

Vietnam has more water and a lot more land than Israel, but you have a lot more people to feed, and we know you are looking for ways to grow more food on your land, and for ways to supply clean water to your country. 

This is a crucial area for our ongoing cooperation, as it will benefit both peoples, and indeed many others around the world.

In addition, our commercial partnerships today include, a growing variety of industries and knowledge sharing. 

This includes of course defence and cyber crucial for keeping our peoples safe; medical devices and cooperation crucial for our peoples’ well-being; and education to continue on our great legacies and achievements. 

Indeed, through cooperation in agriculture utilizing Israeli technology to improve Vietnamese production we can ensure food security for millions of people around the world.

If we cooperate in communications and technology, we connect people to build greater understanding and support research and development. Through our cooperation, we can truly face global challenges.

We are ready to do this together - indeed during my visit I am honored to bring with me a delegation of more than 50 Israeli business leaders, and will be addressing two economic seminars on expanding our cooperation. 

This is the opportunity that we have, and in the future I would like to see more mutual trade and cooperation.


*Q: What are the key contents to be discussed during your visit and your expectations for the visit?*

My visit comes at the time when relations between both countries are bearing fruit and greater accomplishments can be made. During my visit I will meet with President Tran Dai Quang, with the General Secretary of the Communist Party, Nguyen Phu Trong, and with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc. 

We have much to discuss about how we can strengthen our ties, and work together to not only improve the lives of our peoples, but work to address challenges to the whole world, including security, sustainability, and innovation.


*Q: What is your assessment of the national defence cooperation between Israel and Vietnam over the years?*

We all know peace and security cannot be taken for granted. Often, so that we can enjoy economic, social, cultural, and educational prosperity, we must be vigilant to ensure security. 

Defence has a role in peace as it does during times of war. In the twenty-first century, it is clear to everyone that security is a very broad term. 

It includes homeland security, freedom from violence, protection against cyber-attacks, and the ability to communicate in any condition and in any weather. 

So that security cooperation can incorporate all these different fields, Israel aspires to expand our security cooperation with other countries. 

Over the last years, much has already been achieved in our cooperation, and we have exchanged military attaches as part of our growing diplomatic relations. 

We are ready and willing to deepen this cooperation, and share further our best practices and experience in defending our peoples.


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## Viet

Gepard frigate

Loading weapons


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## Viet

The Shinzo Abe government sends the new created Japan-Vietnam Special Ambassador Sugi Ryotaro to Hanoi for talks. Interesting, never heard before of such a role exists. I wonder what JP-VN special ambassador does.

I believe Ryotaro should not be worried. Vietnam has no objection to Japanese warships operating in the South China Sea. Even not to the Izumo.

_



_


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## Viet

Members of Vietnam and Cambodia General Staffs opened a new office building for Cambodia armed forces, sponsored by Vietnam, _in Phnom Penh on March 18.



_


A new anti tank missile TLCT is under development that is capable to pierce through 800mm armor steel.




According to Nikkei Asian Review, the Japanese government intends to donate military hardware surplus to friends and allies in south east Asia including Vietnam. Good stuff.


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## Viet

Strela-10M anti aircraft gun-missile system



































It will take a while until Vietnam submarines can fire the first ballistic missile.


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## Viet

A true friend and partner of Vietnam in economy and defense: Singapore. The country's Prime Minister will arrive Vietnam by tomorrow for a 4 day visit.


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## Viet

A delegation led by Mishel Baruch (left), the head of Israeli military industrial complex, on a visit to Vietnam.






No longer Ak-47, a Special Force unit with Israeli Tar-21 rifle



Regular army unit with Galil-31 assault rifle


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## Viet

Nearly invisible, fired in an ambush position, one of principal anti tank weapons of the Infantry: b72 armor piercing ground missile

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## Carlosa

*Strengthening Ties with Vietnam as a ‘South China Sea Ally’*
*by Daniel Ward*
March 19, 2017 - 9:17am
*Strengthening Ties with Vietnam as a ‘South China Sea Ally’ *

Daniel Ward

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/strengthening-ties-with-vietnam-as-a-‘south-china-sea-ally’

*Introduction*

Current tensions in the South China Sea, and their direct effect on U.S. vital interests, need to be addressed through strong relationships and alliances. The U.S. cannot be content to rely on past goodwill and must actively build and nurture its ties within the region. Current events demonstrate that even once-solid connections, such as those with the Philippines, can be threatened with regime changes. The U.S. can leverage Vietnam’s conflicts with China and our own growing ties with this former enemy to build a mainstay in the bulwark against Chinese expansion, and have another ally to counter any future Chinese aggression. Within the overall construct of such a relationship, the maritime domain is at the forefront of priorities.

This domain is critical as the U.S. may arguably be losing its ‘traditional’ cohort, the Philippines, based on recent developments which indicate their new leadership. While the U.S. could be said to have strong alliances in the Pacific region with Japan and Australia, neither has a direct presence in the South China Sea as compared to the Philippines, and with the potential loss of their support, the U.S. would be wise to invest in another nation with ‘local’ ties to bolster U.S. interests. Even with a volatile history between them, Vietnam makes sense as a partner for the U.S. Historical and current tensions between China and Vietnam are heightened in certain aspects of disagreement, particularly with regards to maritime resources. The U.S. can work to support Vietnamese claims to strengthen relationships and counter Chinese movements. The U.S. can build upon current efforts underway with Vietnam, such as ties between the U.S. Coast Guard and Vietnam Marine Police.

The U.S. needs local support in the South China Sea if we are truly committed to countering extensive development of China’s military footprint, which could effectively make the South China Sea a non-permissive area based on their control of several islands. Diplomacy and negotiation are bolstered by actual ability; and without a strong presence in the region the U.S. does not have a formidable position from which to engage China in diplomacy. Another regional ally would greatly help this cause, and Vietnam is the best candidate.

*South China Sea ‘Construct’*

The South China Sea is a current backdrop for China’s increasing global ambitions and desire to cement itself as the preeminent power in Asia. China is working towards “a grand strategy for itself that is meant…to pacify its periphery…and replace the United States as the most important power in Asia” [1]. To counter this movement, “forward-stationed U.S. forces…signal U.S. political commitment to the region” [2]. However, the U.S. cannot realistically maintain a solo posture in the region; allies are needed whom also have needs to balance Chinese ambition. In one such example, “Vietnam’s government, pressed by an ever more powerful China, knows it cannot stand up to Beijing alone and is cautiously moving toward increased ties with the United States” [3]. Numerous factors in the China-Vietnam rivalry have increasingly come to the forefront over the last several years to include: disputes over South China Sea territory; conflicting energy related exploration; disagreement on fishing rights and clashes between fishermen and patrol forces; and alliances against one another across the Diplomatic-Information-Military-Economic (DIME) spectrum. Added to this mix, “rising nationalism in both Vietnam and China fuels this race for regional influence and makes it harder for leaders in each country to back down from any confrontation, whatever the initial genesis” [4]. This set of factors allows the U.S. to engender itself towards Vietnam as both nations have common purpose in working to curb the extent of China’s South China Sea control.

The South China Sea is important regionally and globally as a source of energy resources, fisheries, and trade. Control of these sea lanes through various aspects of DIME, particularly military control, give nations leverage upon one another. As Julian Corbett might argue, control of the sea and its lines of communication effectively gives one control of all aspects of that region and its coastal environs. This is the goal of both China and the U.S. However, China enjoys a proximity advantage. China’s “pursuit of power in all its dimensions…is driven by the conviction that China…could never attain its destiny unless it amassed the power necessary to ward off the hostility of those opposed to this quest” [5]. Smaller, regional powers are at odds with this prospect. Both “China and Vietnam claim the entire area of the South China Sea and the islands within it while Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Brunei have laid claims to contiguous areas” [6]. Compared to China, there are two sets of principles which favor Vietnam’s claims, both that of ‘effective occupation’ and the rules of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which sets down internationally accepted norms for claims on exclusive economic zones. Perhaps amassed as one, a group resolve can best be applied to at least balance China’s stance of occupation. But simple diplomacy will not be effective, as “Beijing is rapidly dredging and militarizing disputed maritime areas” [7].

The U.S. cannot assume historical alliances will hold up under such conditions, and the U.S. cannot idly count upon international dynamics to be stable. With the recent election in the Philippines of President Rodrigo Duterte, the U.S. may see a trusted ally move to the sidelines or even towards the other side of the coin. As reported in _The Wall Street Journal_, “a top U.S. diplomat said that Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte was stoking “consternation” among governments and investors by repeatedly raising doubts about the future of the alliance between their two countries” [8]. This rhetoric is enhanced by statements from Duterte that “the Philippines would begin buying weapons from China and Russia (the US is the traditional main supplier), and that it would cease joint patrols of the South China Sea with the US” [9]. China is strategically working to control the lanes of the South China Sea through a “’strategic triangle’…that would allow it to monitor and police the waterway for decades to come…with bunkers, landing strips, and surveillance equipment” and which includes its current control of the Spratly and Paracel chains and its ambitions on the “Scarborough Shoal in the northeast” [10]. While the Philippines has served as a buttress against Chinese control of this important area, under the new president the Philippines are seemingly “set to essentially reverse course and give China Scarborough Shoal after all” [11].

Where can the U.S. find basing and naval allies in the region to support its cause? The Philippines support may be assessed as diminished, and other traditional support is not logistically robust, noting that “Australia lacks the maintenance facilities required by a carrier strike group” and “Guam's infrastructure is outdated and would require massive investment to accommodate a carrier” [12]. Hence more closely linked support is required. And China has taken notice. In response to recent ASEAN meetings, in which regional members have tried to organize against Chinese aggression, “Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin warned ASEAN against being influenced by outside powers, a clear rebuke to Washington” [13]. Among nations who may disregard Chinese threats and be willing to bolster an alliance against the regional powerhouse, is a former U.S. enemy, Vietnam. Why? Past tensions are increasing between this coastal nation and China, and the U.S. should be ready to mesh with Vietnam in pursuit of common goals.

*China and Vietnam*

China’s largest regional rival in the maritime realm is Vietnam. As discussed by Leszek Buszynski, “Vietnam is the major oil producer in the area” and as it “attempts to exploit new fields, there is the possibility of renewed clashes with China, which has consistently opposed Vietnam’s attempts to conclude exploration agreements with international oil companies in the South China Sea” [14]. In addition to energy, fishing grounds are a point of contention, and “the Vietnamese claim that 63 fishing boats with 725 crew members have been seized by the Chinese since 2005 in the South China Sea” [15]. An overall analysis concludes that “China has interfered massively in Vietnam’s economic development — not only against its fishing, but against its offshore oil and gas exploration and extraction” [16]. One wonders, can Vietnam compete? Vietnam has been moved upon aggressively by China in both the energy resource and fisheries arenas. But Vietnam is not poised to stand toe-to-toe with China if or when tensions escalate, and “analysts believe that Vietnam’s deterrence strategy is not designed to confront China in a conflict, but rather intended to create some risks for the Chinese navy if it decided to resort to force” [17].

Certain measures on the international stage of diplomacy have proved less than fruitful, such as “when Vietnam threatened to file a U.N. arbitration claim against China in mid-2014 as maritime tensions flared” and “China responded by freezing credit lines for ongoing Vietnamese energy and infrastructure projects, forcing some projects into restructuring and leaving others stranded” [18]. In conjunction, the “two countries have never adopted a memorandum of understanding (MOU) about how to resolve maritime disputes; in 2011, Hanoi and Beijing signed an agreement on general guidelines for addressing maritime conflicts, but have not progressed beyond generalities” [19]. Escalation is the order of the day. Fishing fleets are accompanied on both sides by coastal and naval patrol vessels, and interdictions often place armed assets of both nations in close proximity to one another. And both China and Vietnam have both “used state-owned petroleum companies as tools to claim disputed areas” and each has “responded rapidly to the other side’s new oil and gas explorations by increasing patrols in disputed areas or cutting the cables of survey ships” [20]. Essentially, the South China Sea has been regionally militarized, but China holds the upper hand in vessels, aircraft, and capabilities. Vietnam needs a backdrop to even the tables.

*Vietnam: A Maritime Ally*

There are numerous important elements reference a U.S. strategy towards China, which include measures such as “concertedly building up the power-political capacities of U.S. friends and allies on China’s periphery” as well as “improving the capability of U.S. military forces to effectively project power along the Asian rimlands despite any Chinese opposition” [21]. This focus is a major reason why Vietnam can serve as a lynchpin in the U.S. strategy towards containment of China and furtherance of a stable footing in the Pacific theater. The U.S. must concern itself with the continued support and development of ASEAN allies, and with regards to Vietnam, the U.S. should “seek to expand the scope of activities during the annual U.S.-Vietnam naval exercises to include joint humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, and/or search and rescue exercises, and make more frequent stops at the port at Cam Ranh Bay in the short term” [22]. And while “the Vietnamese regard the United States as an important check upon China…their country’s proximity to their northern giant dictates that they be cautious” [23]. This means Vietnam needs substantial support which is steady and focused.

The “maritime domain…is one of the biggest challenges Vietnam faces today in the South China Sea” and to improve this posture the U.S. can and should help Vietnam enhance its capabilities “through training of military personnel” and pursuing “opportunities for joint naval exercises” [24]. In this effort, Vietnam tends “to be led by the coast guard” as “Hanoi views the coast guard as less escalatory than the navy, which is seen more as a reserve force” [25]. Such measures indicate Vietnam’s need to confront China, but also a reluctance to overtly push back due to potential repercussions of retaliation. Having an ally who can match China provides Vietnam with resolve to not necessarily be the aggressor, but to also not feel pressure to sway under Chinese oppression. Le Hong Hiep argues that “Vietnam is China’s biggest rival in the South China Sea so targeting it can provide Beijing with an opportunity to test Vietnam’s genuine capabilities and resolve” and “Vietnam has recently invested considerably in upgrading its navy as well as paramilitary forces, such as the Vietnam Coast Guard and the newly-established Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance” [26]. Faced with a more powerful opponent, “Vietnam’s restraint in using force is therefore understandable, although it might raise doubts regarding Vietnam’s deterrence capabilities against China” [27]. The U.S. does not benefit from a military clash between China and Vietnam, and measures to counter this possibility include working with “Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations to create a united position on a code of conduct” or promotion of “ASEAN-China joint economic and scientific projects in the South China Sea, such as programs to codify the marine biodiversity” which may serve as a platform for a reduction in tensions [28]. But these measures must be made from a position of strength to realistically have any measure of regard within China. Improvement of Vietnamese military and patrol capabilities, in concert with U.S. exercises “could be effective in stopping China from projecting power in ways that could provoke a confrontation with its neighbors” [29].

Analysis by _The New York Times _indicates “Vietnam’s needs dovetail with those of the United States, which has been encouraging maritime states in Southeast Asia to better defend themselves, an effort partly aimed at keeping the United States from being dragged into a direct naval conflict with China” [30]. Such recent measures are highlighted by actions between the U.S. Coast Guard and Vietnam Marine Police, with “training…focused on maritime law enforcement, search and rescue and operational planning” [31]. This ties directly to governance of areas in dispute such as exploration of natural resources and harvesting of fisheries. This “capacity building has been a significant part of overall U.S. engagement in Vietnam over the past three years” and “each outreach activity has succeeded in further strengthening trust and opening the door to a broader range of activities between our two countries” [32].

*Conclusion*

The U.S. will continue to be concerned with developments in the South China Sea, and will actively seek to check China’s maneuvers to solidify itself as the central regional power through its acquisition of island territories. Simply stated, “what was once a maritime territorial dispute involving China, Vietnam, and the other littoral ASEAN states has become something more disturbing for the peace and stability of the Western Pacific” [33]. The U.S. must have regional partners, and one which also is actively seeking to check China could serve as a strong counterpart. At sea, “since 2009, when China submitted a nine-dash map to the United Nations and asserted its control over much of the South China Sea, Vietnam has begun to see the maritime domain as its most important security challenge” [34]. This serves as an opportunity for both Vietnam and the U.S. to improve relations focused upon common cause. Joshua Kurlantzick writes “…a maritime crisis between Vietnam and China could theoretically serve U.S. interests in Asia” in that “a crisis that stemmed primarily from aggressive Chinese action, and that was met with a U.S. response that prompted China to back down but averted conflict, could lead Asian nations to strengthen military relationships with the United States” [35]. The converse is true in that “if a maritime crisis erupted and a U.S. response was ineffective, prolonging the conflict and failing to prevent China from retreating, even close U.S. partners could seek to bolster ties with China at the expense of military relations with Washington” [36]. The objective is to avoid military action. This is done through diplomacy and application of the full spectrum of DIME elements. However, far from home, the U.S. needs local support upon which joint action can be based and linked to leverage alliances in coordinated efforts to balance power, and discourage Chinese aggression against its neighbors. In the past, a nation such as the Philippines would have been the ‘go-to’ choice. In the current construct, the U.S. could truly do no better than working with Vietnam.

*End Notes*

[1] Blackwill, Robert D. and Ashley J. Tellis. “Revising U.S. Grand Strategy Toward China”. _Council Special Report_, No. 72, March 2015. Council of Foreign Relations, 2015, p. vii.

[2] Green, Michael, Kathleen Hicks, Mark Cancian, Zack Cooper, and John Schaus. _Asia-Pacific Rebalance 2025: Capabilities, Presence, and Partnerships_. Washington, DC: Center for Strategic and International Studies, 2016, p. 201.

[3] Perlez, Jane. “Why Might Vietnam Let U.S. Military Return? China”. _The New York Times_, May 19, 2016. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/20/w...s-us-weighs-lifting-vietnam-embargo.html?_r=0, p. 1.

[4] Kurlantzick, Joshua. “A China-Vietnam Military Clash” _Contingency Planning Memorandum No. 26_. New York: Council on Foreign Relations, 2015, p. 1.

[5] Blackwill and Tellis, p. 7.

[6] Buszynski, Leszek. "The South China Sea: Oil, Maritime Claims, and U.S.-China Strategic Rivalry." _The Washington Quarterly_ 35 (2), p. 139-156. 2012, p. 140.

[7] Kurlantzick, p. 6.

[8] Larano, Cris. “U.S. Diplomat Calls Duterte ‘Separation’ Comment ‘Bad for Business’”. _The Wall Street Journal_, October 24, 2016. Dow Jones & Company, Inc. 2016. http://www.wsj.com/articles/duterte...om-u-s-stoke-worries-in-washington-1477289185, p. 1.

[9] Mollman, Steve. “The Philippines is About to Give Up the South China Sea to China”. _Defense One_, October 13, 2016. National Journal Group, Inc. 2016. http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2...na-sea-china/132319/?oref=defenseone_today_nl, p. 1.

[10] Ibid.

[11] Ibid.

[12] Robson, Seth. “Analysts Recommend Second US Aircraft Carrier for Far East”. _Stars and Stripes_, July 29, 2016. http://www.military.com/daily-news/...-second-us-aircraft-carrier-for-far-east.html, p. 1.

[13] Symington, Annabel and Martin Abbugao. SE Asia Deadlocked as South China Sea Split Deepens. Agence France Presse. July 24, 2016. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/07/24/se-asia-deadlocked-south-china-sea-split-deepens.html, p. 1.

[14] Buszynski, p. 141.

[15] Ibid, p. 143.

[16] Corr, Anders. “China vs. Vietnam: Next Up at the International Court on the South China Sea”. _Forbes_, July 13, 2016. http://www.forbes.com/sites/andersc...al-court-on-the-south-china-sea/#2b2e9a142887, p. 1.

[17] Green et al, p. 106.

[18] Harris, Jennifer M. “U.S. Needs New South China Sea Strategy to Restrain Beijing”. _Newsweek_, July 17, 2016. http://www.newsweek.com/us-readies-beijings-new-strategy-south-china-sea-480744, p. 1.

[19] Kurlantzick, p. 2.

[20] Ibid, p. 3.

[21] Blackwill and Tellis, p. 5.

[22] Ibid, p. 30.

[23] Buszynski, p. 149.

[24] Green et al, p. 106.

[25] Ibid, p .108.

[26] Hiep, Le Hong. “Chinese Assertiveness in the South China Sea: What Should Vietnam Do?”. _The National Interest_, May 15, 2014. http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...iveness-the-south-china-sea-what-should-10468, p. 1.

[27] Ibid.

[28] Kurlantzick, p. 5.

[29] Ibid, p. 6.

[30] Perlez, p. 1.

[31] Webster, Rick. “Coast Guard Strengthens Relationship with Vietnam Marine Police”. _Coast Guard Compass_, September 13, 2013. http://coastguard.dodlive.mil/2013/...hens-relationship-with-vietnam-marine-police/, p. 1.

[32] Ibid, p. 1.

[33] Buszynski, p. 151.

[34] Green et al, p. 106.

[35] Kurlantzick, p. 4.

[36] Ibid.

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## Aqsuperman

50th Anniversay of Đặc Công aka "Special Attack" unit. Born as a light infantry force to overcome fortifications, Đặc công has become an important component of the VPA. Here are guns that are used by the force.






PM-63






Uzi






Galatz sniper rifle






SVD sniper rifle






Collapsible stock AK






M18 ( Never seen outside parade )






Gali + M203 ( Never seen outside parade )

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam asks South Korea for support with South China Sea issue*
Gabriel Dominguez, London - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly 
21 March 2017

http://www.janes.com/article/68879/vietnam-asks-south-korea-for-support-with-south-china-sea-issue

Vietnam's prime minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc has asked South Korea to support his country's stance on "the South China Sea issue", the Vietnamese government said in a 20 March statement.

"The prime minister proposed that South Korea continue to support the position of Vietnam and ASEAN [Association of Southeast Asian Nations] on the South China Sea issue and help Vietnam strengthen its law enforcement capacity at sea," Hanoi said in a statement on its website following a meeting between Nguyen Xuan Phuc and South Korean foreign minister Yun Byung-se.

The statement did not provide further details in this regard. South Korea is Vietnam's biggest foreign investor and one of the Southeast Asian nation's largest trading partners.

*Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options:　**ihs.com/contact*

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## Viet

Greeting Israeli president Rivlin to Vietnam
The school girls wear Israeli national colors.

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## Carlosa

*My Lai Massacre, 49 Years Later*
by MIKE HASTIE
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/03/21/my-lai-massacre-49-years-later/





_My Lai mural_

March 16, 2017, was the 49th anniversary of the My Lai Massacre, located in Quang Ngai Province, Vietnam. It was Saturday morning, March 16, 1968, when approximately 115 U.S. Army soldiers of the Americal Division’s Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry, landed in helicopters just outside the village of My Lai 4. Over the course of the next four hours, these American soldiers, and their Military High Command, who were flying overhead in helicopters observing the massacre, took part in a horror show far beyond the human imagination. They took the term, “War Crimes,” and added a butcher shop to the equation of morbid extermination. In essence, they became a U.S. version of the final solution. They committed an act of barbarity that would redefine the war in Vietnam. It would take years to decipher what happened that day, as denial is the elixir that protects us from experiencing national shame. It is these two words, “National Shame,” that continues to hide the truth of what really happened in Southeast Asia.

This is what the U.S. Military did on that day on March 16, 1968. I use the word “We,” because our taxes paid for the massacre, and our ignorance about the war wrote the check. Among the dead were a hundred and eighty-two women, seventeen of them pregnant. A hundred and seventy-three children were executed, including fifty-six infants. Sixty older men were also murdered. The museum at My Lai includes the accounting of another important fact: there was another village located about a mile away from My Lai 4, called My Khe 4, that U.S. soldiers from Bravo Company on the same day, also committed atrocities. So, 407 were murdered at My Lai 4, and 97 were murdered at My Khe 4, for a total of 504 Vietnamese civilians. It also must be noted, that there were twenty rapes committed, not to include attempted rapes. I have chosen not to go into detail about how those executions were committed, or the torture and extreme suffering that was committed by American soldiers under Pentagon command. This butcher shop mentality would be extremely difficult to read and comprehend by most people. I will say this, and it is a quote from Larry Colburn, who was a door gunner on Hugh Thompson’s helicopter that landed on the ground during the massacre, and attempted to stop the killing. These are Larry Colburn’s words: ” The only thing the U.S. soldiers did not do was cook them and eat them.”

In order to understand WHY these two massacres were committed on March 16, 1968, a synopsis and history of what happened in Quang Ngai Province during the war would be helpful for the reader. I came across an article written on October 2, 1994, by award winning author, and Vietnam veteran, Tim O’Brien. The title of the article is: “The Vietnam in Me.” These are his words:

In the years preceding the murders at My Lai, more than 70 percent of the villages in Quang Ngai Province had been destroyed by air strikes, artillery fire, Zippo lighters, napalm, white phosphorus, bulldozers, gunships and other such means. Roughly 40 percent of the population had lived in refugee camps, while civilian casualties in the area were approaching 50,000 a year. These numbers, reported by the journalist Jonathan Schell in 1967, were later confirmed as substantially correct by Government investigators. Not that I needed confirmation. Back in 1969, the wreckage was all around us, so common it seemed part of the geography, as natural as any mountain or river. Wreckage was the rule. Brutality was S.O.P. Scalded children, pistol-whipped women, burning hootches, free-fire zones, body counts, indiscriminate bombing and harassment fire, villages in ash, M-60 machine guns hosing down dark green tree lines and human life behind them.

In a war without aim, you tend not to aim. You close your eyes, close your heart. The consequences become hit or miss in the most literal sense. With so few military targets, with an enemy that was both of and among the population, Alpha Company began to regard Quang Ngai itself as the true enemy–the physical place, the soil and paddies. What had started for us as a weird, vicious little war soon evolved into something far beyond vicious, a hopped-up killer strain of nihilism, waste without want, aimlessness of spirit. As Schell wrote after the events at My Lai, There can be no doubt that such an atrocity was possible only because a number of other methods of killing civilians and destroying their villages had come to be the rule, and not the exception, in our conduct of the war.”

In his book, Kill Anything That Moves, by Nick Turse, he states on page 11, ” The war’s casualty figures are staggering indeed. From 1955 to 1975, the United States lost more than 58,000 military personnel in Southeast Asia. Its troops were wounded around 304,000 times, with 153,000 cases serious enough to require hospitalization, and 75,000 veterans left severely disabled. While Americans who served in Vietnam paid a grave price, an extremely conservative estimate of Vietnamese deaths found them to be proportionally 100 times greater than those suffered by the United States.”

Also, on page 61 of Nick Turse’s book, he states: According to Westmoreland’s memoir, MacArthur “urged me to make sure I always had plenty of artillery, for the Oriental, he said, ‘ greatly fears artillery,'” and suggested that Westmoreland might have to employ a ” scorched earth policy ” in Vietnam.

As I did more research in writing this article, I had to put my mind in a place that required the attention of bearing witness. So much of the research is heart breaking, especially when you watch video of Vietnamese grieving the loss of loved ones. The shame you feel is gut wrenching. As an Army medic in Vietnam in 1970-71, the Vietnam War completely redefined my life. I was raised in a military family, as my father was a career Army officer, and combat veteran in North Africa during World War II. I spent my early life on U.S. military bases in Japan, and Germany, to include bases on the East Coast and West Coast of the United States.

My core belief system was a direct result of that upbringing. As far as I was concerned, the United States was the greatest country in the world. I wholeheartedly believed that until I went into the Army in March 1969. By the time I got to An Khe, Vietnam in September 1970, I was experiencing the rapid deterioration of American involvement in Vietnam. I was seeing periodic casualties coming in by medevac helicopters from the field, occasional attacks from mortars and rockets, but mostly internal violence in my own unit. Heroin addiction was rampant, suicides and shoot-outs between U.S. soldiers could happen at anytime. I spent most of my time on a reconnaissance support base that included three other heavily armed fire bases. The 155mm howitzers on those bases occasionally fired into free-fire zones just like most bases throughout Vietnam. Our assault helicopters and gunships went out often on hunting missions. To this day, I have no idea the damage they inflicted on the Vietnamese people.

In early April 1971, I was working in our aid station, when a Armored Personnel Carrier ( APC ) pulled up to our aid station, because one of the crew members had a minor injury. On the front of that APC, the crew had painted in large white letters: KILL A GOOK FOR CALLEY. Lt. William Calley, was of course the only one who was found guilty of the My Lai Massacre. He was found guilty of war crimes on March 29, 1971, and was sentenced to life in prison. However, President Nixon pardoned him, and he eventually returned to Atlanta, Georgia to work in his father-in-law’s jewelry store.

During his trial, millions of Americans believed he was not guilty, and sent thousands of letters to the White House asking for his release. Even though Calley was guilty, the one thing most people do not realize, is that you always protect the upper echelon of military command. It is an unwritten rule in the military. The military almost always blames it on a bad apple in the lower ranks. The important thing to remember, is that the My Lai Massacre was a military operation that had a predictable outcome. You do not bring the enemy to the peace table by just killing military combatants. You ultimately bring the enemy to the peace table by killing innocent civilians. They are military targets. The primary goal of the aggressor nation is to break the will of the people, and its ability to defend its homeland. This strategy is as old as warfare itself.

It is now March 16, 2017, forty-nine years after the My Lai Massacre. Since the end of World War II, my lifetime, as I am now 72, the United States has bombed 30 countries. The atrocities have never stopped. What happened at My Lai is extremely important to understand, because atrocities during the war were U.S. Policies! My Lai is a metaphor for the entire Vietnam War. My Lai was NEVER an aberration. The most important realization that has come out of writing this article, is that it always comes back to me, because My country did this. I cannot divorce myself from this reality. When I came back from Vietnam I finally had to face the truth, that I was the enemy in Vietnam. That realization was to eventually put me in two psychiatric hospitals. My core belief system was completely dismantled. I felt like a stranger in a strange land. And, whenever I tried to convince people that We were the barbarians in Vietnam, the more people avoided me.





_The “Why” medivac helicopter, 1970, in An Khe, Vietnam. Photo by author._

People don’t want to hear that toxic truth, because I was violating the existing beliefs of society. I was like the 16-year-old girl who blurted out that her father raped her. This kind of information is taboo, and the only course was to blame the victim. I have met many Vietnam veterans who were involved in atrocities, and that pain was very excruciating. Some of them have worked through what happened, but the trail of suffering they went through had to be done behind closed doors with counselors. Our society is never part of that healing, because they don’t want to hear the truth. And, of course, you have to ask why? They do not want to feel the shame, the National Shame, because it is so frightening. If they were to feel that shame, they would have to redefine their entire lives. In the end, I came to realize, that whenever the truth threatens one’s core belief system, there is an urgent need to deny its reality. That is why denial becomes a sacred cow.

I have personally known many Vietnam veterans who were destroyed by their experiences in Vietnam. At least four of my friends died from Agent Orange exposure, to include my brother-in-law. One died from a head on car collision, one died homeless on the streets, and two hung themselves. It does not surprise me that more Vietnam veterans have committed suicide than were killed in Vietnam. According to the Veterans Administration, one veteran commits suicide every hour in this country.

The survivor, then, is a disturber of the peace. He is a runner of the blockade men erect against knowledge of ” unspeakable ” things. About these he aims to speak, and in so doing he undermines, without intending to, the validity of existing norms. He is a genuine transgressor, and here he is made to feel real guilt. The world to which he appeals does not admit him, and since he has looked to this world as the source of moral order, he begins to doubt himself. And that is not the end, for now his guilt is doubled by betrayal– of himself, of his task, of his vow to the dead. The final guilt is not to bear witness. The survivor’s worst torment is not to be able to speak. Terrence Des Pres, The Survivor

In closing, I have to remind myself that Lying Is The Most Powerful Weapon In War. I am reminded of what Dalton Trumbo wrote in his famous novel, ” Johnny Got His Gun.” These are his words: ” If the thing they were fighting for was important enough to die for then it was also important enough for them to be thinking about it in the last minutes of their lives. That stood to reason. Life is awfully important so if you’ve given it away you’d ought to think with all your mind in the last moments of your life about the thing you traded it for. So, did all those kids die thinking of democracy and freedom and liberty and honor and the safety of the home and the stars and strips forever? You’re goddamn right they didn’t.”

Viktor E. Frankl, who wrote, “Mans Search For Meaning, ” was very instrumental in my healing, when he wrote, ” Suffering ceases to be suffering when it has meaning.” In 1994, and 2016, I made trips back to Vietnam, with special emphasis on spending time at the My Lai Massacre site. This past year, I helped raise $8,600.00 with the help of Veterans For Peace, to restore a very large mosaic tile mural, that depicts the massacre of those civilians in the last moments of their lives. It is a very powerful piece of art.

While I was there, I met a Vietnamese woman who is the co-director of the My Lai Museum. She has worked there for 17 years, and has met countless tourists who make the journey to this place. I told her I was a veteran, and that millions of Americans who were adamantly against the war, see this memorial as being very important. I also said to her, that as far as I was concerned, the My Lai Massacre site was sacred ground. In an instant, she broke down and cried. The emotional connection I felt was beyond understanding. I think it was the closest thing to love I had felt since I came back from Vietnam in 1971.

Shortly after I met her, she asked me if I wanted to meet one of the lone survivors of the massacre. His name is Pham Thanh Cong, who was eleven-years-old when U.S. troops came into his village that early morning on March 16, 1968. An American soldier threw a hand grenade into his family hut, and killed his mother, three sisters and a six-year-old brother. He was protected by their bodies during the explosion. He himself was wounded in three places. It was a privilege to meet him, but I have to admit, I was somewhat apprehensive, because I had been an American soldier in HIS country.

Shortly after we met, he asked me if I had been at My Lai during the massacre. I assured him that I had not, and that I was in the Central Highlands two years after the massacre. I could tell he was relieved. We talked for about ten minutes through an interpreter. There was a brief recording of that conversation made. When I began to see his eyes turn red, with tears welling up, I switched the conversation to having a picture made with him and me, and another American veteran who was with me by the name of Sandy Kelson. In the back of my mind, I didn’t really know what I would say to him as we parted. In the end, I kissed him on the cheek, and told him I loved him.

_*Mike Hastie* served as an Army Medic in Vietnam._


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## Carlosa

*TEST-71 Most Powerful Torpedoes of the Vietnamese Kilo Submarine*

07 March 2017
http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/search/label/VIETNAM




TEST-71 heavyweight torpedoes (photo : KienThuc)

(Kien Thuc) - Long range, deep strike capability and great destructive power,TEST-71 torpedoes are considered as powerful and most modern torpedoes of the Vietnamese Navy.


With 6 Kilo 636 diesel electric submarines equipped with equipped with modern weapons including TEST-71 torpedoes has the ability to kill both surface and underwater target, give multiplier effect for Vietnam troops.

For long time age torpedo is considered indispensable to any submarines. These are weapons designed to equip submarines to attack targets on water depth and seabed.





Torpedoes always darting nightmare for both submarines and warships accidentally attacked them.

Just a torpedo may tear the several thousand tonnes of battleship.

The submarines hidden in deep waters, bringing them with the deadly torpedo always unease of any enemy warship water would dare confront them.



TEST-71 heavyweight torpedoes (photo : milit)


And when not equipped with anti-submarine equipment, surface warships will have tragic outcomes like this. In illustrated graphics, torpedoes fired from submarines darting in vast waters towards the goal.


Vietnamese Navy is quite diverse kinds of torpedoes, from light to heavy, from the types of specialized combat surface ships, anti-submarine to all types of modern combat submarines and surface ships.




TEST-71 torpedoes has maximum range of 20 km (photo : alrosa) 

The types of torpedoes in service may be mentioned as heavy anti-submarine and surface ship torpedoes SET-53M, is equipped for submarine hunter Petya class III warship.


Light anti-submarine torpedoes SET-40UE is also equipped for Petya III class submarine hunter of the Vietnamese Navy.




TEST-71 heavyweight torpedoes (image : weapons systems)


Anti surface ship torpedoes 53-65 are fitted for Vietnam Kilo 636 submarines which recently bought.


But most significant the killer is still heavy torpedo TEST-71, it is capable of destroying warships and submarines.




TEST-71 heavyweight torpedoes (photo : Military Russia)

This torpedo can be deployed both on the surface warships and submarines to attack the enemy.

TEST-71 torpedoe has 533mm in diameter, this is heavyweight torpedoes and is designed in the late 1970s, the improved version is still active in the several navy including Vietnamese Navy.

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## Viet

one of the first Vietnamese aviators: *Do Huu Vi* (1883-1916).

Born in Saigon, Do entered the Military Special School of Saint-Cyr in 1904, became Second lieutenant of infantry in 1906. After stations in Morocco and Vietnam, he returned to France in 1914, when the WW I broke out. He was flying reconnaissance flights. Do received the medal of Legion of Honor. Captain Do Huu Vi was killed on 9 July 1916 in the battle of the Somme. In 1921, his brother, also an officer, with the support of the colonial authorities, brought his body back to Vietnam. the final place to rest.
_
























_


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## Viet

one of rarest events in the world: Vietnamese, Chinese celebrate Spring Greetings (Lunar New Year). Together.

the President of Vietnam will visit China in May to attend a OBOR conference, while Xi Jinping is expected to visit Hanoi in November to attend a APEC meeting. We will see whether the encounters will produce more fruitful outcomes than just an intention of cooperation between two countries Red Cross.


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## Viet

Vietnam airforce is looking for a modern trainer aircraft, complementing the existing L-39 trainer aircraft fleet. Yak-130 probably is the best choice.

Yak-130


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## Viet

Police women with H&K rifle


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## Viet

I don't think the mainlanders will be amused.

Taiwanese president Tsai Ing-wen, who is also the DPP chairwoman, nominates a Vietnamese to head a new created immigration office. Tran Thi Hoang Phuon (left), a lecturer of Vietnamese language at National Chengchi University of Taiwan. Tran has a degree in law from Vietnam National University. In 1995, she married a Taiwanese man. 850,000 immigrants live in Taiwan, with many coming from Vietnam. With a Vietnamese as chief immigration adviser to the goverment, more Vietnamese are expected to come to the promised land. Good stuff.


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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> I don't think the mainlanders will be amused.
> 
> Taiwanese president Tsai Ing-wen, who is also the DPP chairwoman, nominates a Vietnamese to head a new created immigration office. Tran Thi Hoang Phuon (left), a lecturer of Vietnamese language at National Chengchi University of Taiwan. Tran has a degree in law from Vietnam National University. In 1995, she married a Taiwanese man. 850,000 immigrants live in Taiwan, with many coming from Vietnam. With a Vietnamese as chief immigration adviser to the goverment, more Vietnamese are expected to come to the promised land. Good stuff.


What is this having to do with viet military hardware purchase or military industry?


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## terranMarine

The only thing Viet is unamused of is the meatless bone China threw at Vietnam  , Pinoy on the other hand is enjoying assistance from China.


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## Svantana

*PTDI Will Export Aircraft Unit 5 NC212i to the Philippines and Vietnam*






Jakarta - PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PT DI) *plans to export 5 NC212i*. The aircraft will be sent to the Philippines 3 units and *Vietnam 2 units.*

Air export plan NC212i abroad is not the first carried out by PTDI. Previous PTDI also been exporting propeller aircraft similar type to the Philippine military in 2013.

"Exports this year will be for Vietnam and the Philippines. 3 units NC212i to the Philippines and* 2 units to Vietnam*," said Director of Production PTDI, Arie Wibowo, to detikFinance, Jakarta, Monday (20/03/2017).

Previously, *PT DI also recorded to have been exported aircraft to Vietnam NC212i 3 units.*. Even for similar aircraft of type NC212 also been exported to Thailand as much as 6 units.

Then for NC212 in Indonesia recorded 99 units, among others, be used for civil and military transport and Maritime Surveillance Aircraft (MSA)

Since 1976, PT DI has been noted that producing 403 aircraft and helicopters. Some aircraft production has been exported to several countries in the world, for military and civilian flights. (WDL / WDL)





original article in Indonesian.
https://finance.detik.com/industri/...5-unit-pesawat-nc212i-ke-filipina-dan-vietnam

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## Silent Knight

I heard that the US Navy also uses this method to clean their aircrafts, i.e. the F-18s. Can anyone confirm?

https://gfycat.com/ReflectingFoolhardyHochstettersfrog


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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> I heard that the US Navy also uses this method to clean their aircrafts, i.e. the F-18s. Can anyone confirm?
> 
> https://gfycat.com/ReflectingFoolhardyHochstettersfrog


Cleaning by brush is one of the possibilities. a washing street is one among them

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> It will take a while until Vietnam submarines can fire the first *ballistic missile*.


A kilo sub to launch ballistic missile? I think you are aware of the difference between ballistic missile and cruise missile. Aren't you?

Currently, there are only two conventional subs that could carry and fire ballistic missile. One is China's type 032 (6,600 ton), which China used as the experimental platform for the Julang series missiles; another comes from North Korea.

Type 032 sub of China





The superme DPRK leader and his ballistic missile sub

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> A kilo sub to launch ballistic missile? I think you are aware of the difference between ballistic missile and cruise missile. Aren't you?
> 
> Currently, there are only two conventional subs that could carry and fire ballistic missile. One is China's type 032 (6,600 ton), which China used as the experimental platform for the Julang series missiles; another comes from North Korea.
> 
> Type 032 sub of China
> View attachment 386206
> 
> 
> The superme DPRK leader and his ballistic missile sub
> View attachment 386207


No, the current Kilos are not suitable. I posted the picture for illustration. Vietnam needs additional larger subs with Aip capability, longer endurance, be capable to fire ballistic missiles from anywhere in the western Pacific. The world is a jungle, only the fittest survive.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> No, the current Kilos are not suitable. I posted the picture for illustration. Vietnam needs additional larger subs with Aip capability, longer endurance, be capable to fire ballistic missiles from anywhere in the western Pacific. The world is a jungle, only the fittest survive.


A nice plan! Wonderful!

Lets do a discussion to see how to make it happen. I think the quickest route is to import the sub+ ballistic missiles from North Korea, because DPRK is may be the only country on the earth that could completely ignore the UN restrictions on WMD exports. However, I'm not sure if Kim's toy could meet your target as "larger subs with Aip capability, longer endurance, be capable to fire ballistic missiles from anywhere in the western Pacific". I guess no, at least his current toy could not meet your target.

Another way is do it by your own. I.e. to develop and produce your own sub + ballistic missile in Vietnam. To achieve this, the following steps are required:

Develop and produce your very first own sub (a normal sub that using torpedo and cruise missile from the torpedo tube).
Once your normal sub is proved reliable, customize it to a special sub that capable of carrying/firing basaltic missile. Given the size and stability requirement of the missiles, that's not an easy job.
Develop and produce your own land-based ballistic missile. The key technology obstacle include, e.g. materials to endure the extreme heat when missile re-entering atmosphere, solid fuel, missile guiding system, etc. (I believe this is a must-have step, unless you think you could run, even before you master the skill of walk. )
Once your land-based ballistic missile is proved reliable, customize it to a sub-based missile. Again, the size and stability restriction brought by the sub makes the customization very challenging. 

To make all the steps done, I guess 20~30years required at least. Of course you can run the sub program and missile program in parallel, but even though, 20~30year estimation is still very optimistic, considering Vietnam's current manufacturing industry capability. Unlike to making online mouth cannon, to make target achieved in real world is always difficult. Trial, fail, trial, fail, trial, fail, ..., trial fail, success. There is no short cut in real world scientific experiment.

So, good luck.

BTW, your opponent is making progress on ASW and anti-missile systems too. So when you design your sub + ballistic missile, you need to look forward and make your secret weapons be ready to the new improvements/ progress of your opponent.

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## hoangsa74

GS Zhou said:


> A nice plan! Wonderful!
> 
> Lets do a discussion to see how to make it happen. I think the quickest route is to import the sub+ ballistic missiles from North Korea, because DPRK is may be the only country on the earth that could completely ignore the UN restrictions on WMD exports. However, I'm not sure if Kim's toy could meet your target as "larger subs with Aip capability, longer endurance, be capable to fire ballistic missiles from anywhere in the western Pacific". I guess no, at least his current toy could not meet your target.
> 
> Another way is do it by your own. I.e. to develop and produce your own sub + ballistic missile in Vietnam. To achieve this, the following steps are required:
> 
> Develop and produce your very first own sub (a normal sub that using torpedo and cruise missile from the torpedo tube).
> Once your normal sub is proved reliable, customize it to a special sub that capable of carrying/firing basaltic missile. Given the size and stability requirement of the missiles, that's not an easy job.
> Develop and produce your own land-based ballistic missile. The key technology obstacle include, e.g. materials to endure the extreme heat when missile re-entering atmosphere, solid fuel, missile guiding system, etc. (I believe this is a must-have step, unless you think you could run, even before you master the skill of walk. )
> Once your land-based ballistic missile is proved reliable, customize it to a sub-based missile. Again, the size and stability restriction brought by the sub makes the customization very challenging.
> 
> To make all the steps done, I guess 20~30years required at least. Of course you can run the sub program and missile program in parallel, but even though, 20~30year estimation is still very optimistic, considering Vietnam's current manufacturing industry capability. Unlike to making online mouth cannon, to make target achieved in real world is always difficult. Trial, fail, trial, fail, trial, fail, ..., trial fail, success. There is no short cut in real world scientific experiment.
> 
> So, good luck.
> 
> BTW, your opponent is making progress on ASW and anti-missile systems too. So when you design your sub + ballistic missile, you need to look forward and make your secret weapons be ready to the new improvements/ progress of your opponent.


Vietnam is right next to china why go through the hassle of buildjng sub and ballistics missle? Any country that can miniaturize the nuke boom to mount on ballistic missile can make a suitcase or backpack nuke easily. A handheld nuke device smuggled across border can avoid anti missile or asw.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> A nice plan! Wonderful!
> 
> Lets do a discussion to see how to make it happen. I think the quickest route is to import the sub+ ballistic missiles from North Korea, because DPRK is may be the only country on the earth that could completely ignore the UN restrictions on WMD exports. However, I'm not sure if Kim's toy could meet your target as "larger subs with Aip capability, longer endurance, be capable to fire ballistic missiles from anywhere in the western Pacific". I guess no, at least his current toy could not meet your target.
> 
> Another way is do it by your own. I.e. to develop and produce your own sub + ballistic missile in Vietnam. To achieve this, the following steps are required:
> 
> Develop and produce your very first own sub (a normal sub that using torpedo and cruise missile from the torpedo tube).
> Once your normal sub is proved reliable, customize it to a special sub that capable of carrying/firing basaltic missile. Given the size and stability requirement of the missiles, that's not an easy job.
> Develop and produce your own land-based ballistic missile. The key technology obstacle include, e.g. materials to endure the extreme heat when missile re-entering atmosphere, solid fuel, missile guiding system, etc. (I believe this is a must-have step, unless you think you could run, even before you master the skill of walk. )
> Once your land-based ballistic missile is proved reliable, customize it to a sub-based missile. Again, the size and stability restriction brought by the sub makes the customization very challenging.
> 
> To make all the steps done, I guess 20~30years required at least. Of course you can run the sub program and missile program in parallel, but even though, 20~30year estimation is still very optimistic, considering Vietnam's current manufacturing industry capability. Unlike to making online mouth cannon, to make target achieved in real world is always difficult. Trial, fail, trial, fail, trial, fail, ..., trial fail, success. There is no short cut in real world scientific experiment.
> 
> So, good luck.
> 
> BTW, your opponent is making progress on ASW and anti-missile systems too. So when you design your sub + ballistic missile, you need to look forward and make your secret weapons be ready to the new improvements/ progress of your opponent.


I will begin to like you if you develop some sense of optimism towards Vietnam. everything you said is correct, but you oversee one point. do you know why Vietnam worked hard over 20 years to get the US lifting arms embargo? correct, to get access to US arms technology. Not North Korea my friend (we are not stupid to invite sanctions), it is western technology that we eye, from the US and her allies, Japan, Germany and the likes. or especially from Israel. it was impossible for Vietnam to get a piece of Israeli military hardware as long as the US arms embargo was still in place.

the Israeli President Reuven Rivlin visits Vietnam this week. You have probably heard the Jews call themselves God´s chosen people, but the Jews call themselves ‘Sabras’. I can explain later why it means or you can find out by yourself. Vietnam and Israel have signed an agreement on collaboration in the fields of industrial research and development, everything to military. why not learn from the Jews, who fight over thousands of years for survival? the vietnamese are usually lazy, not wanting to reinvent the wheels. why not buying German Aip submarines and equip them with ballistic missiles? that is the way the Israeli are doing.


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## Nike

things about US and allies defense tech and sharing tech

1. Vietnam till now still not one of US major non NATO ally, or have special billateral relationship privilege like many GCC countries and some South East Asian countries (Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore and Phillippines). To warrant US let her and her allies to share many sensitive defense techs (including Israel too). And though US had partially lifting her embargoes to Vietnam there is no actual meaningful transfer of weapons from US to Vietnam after that.

2. Most of US Allies have political restriction and strings regarding sale of their weapons systems and sharing technologies (especially Germany, UK), most prefer to have defense cooperation with Countries who hold the same value and interest with them (democracy, promoting human rights, sharing profit and other)

3. Even Vietnam can get Israel made conventional weapons system like Extra, Acular and Spyder, i personally will doubting US will let Israel to sharing a more sensitive tech like ballistic missile system and other capabilities regarding Vietnam longstanding mutual relationship with Russia, one of US competitor. 

in ASEAN region only two Country capable to get US warrant to get some of US and Allies tech and ability to utilizing it in their defense industry and research, Indonesia and Singapore. Just made it simple, i will be in surprise if US willing to give lisence production of one of their propeller engine for military aircraft to Vietnam like what Indonesia get from Honeywell Indonesia co. for Indonesian made CN212i.

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> things about US and allies defense tech and sharing tech
> 
> 1. Vietnam till now still not one of US major non NATO ally, or have special billateral relationship privilege like many GCC countries and some South East Asian countries (Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore and Phillippines). To warrant US let her and her allies to share many sensitive defense techs (including Israel too). And though US had partially lifting her embargoes to Vietnam there is no actual meaningful transfer of weapons from US to Vietnam after that.
> 
> 2. Most of US Allies have political restriction and strings regarding sale of their weapons systems and sharing technologies (especially Germany, UK), most prefer to have defense cooperation with Countries who hold the same value and interest with them (democracy, promoting human rights, sharing profit and other)
> 
> 3. Even Vietnam can get Israel made conventional weapons system like Extra, Acular and Spyder, i personally will doubting US will let Israel to sharing a more sensitive tech like ballistic missile system and other capabilities regarding Vietnam longstanding mutual relationship with Russia, one of US competitor.
> 
> in ASEAN region only two Country capable to get US warrant to get some of US and Allies tech and ability to utilizing it in their defense industry and research, Indonesia and Singapore. Just made it simple, i will be in surprise if US willing to give lisence production of one of their propeller engine for military aircraft to Vietnam like what Indonesia get from Honeywell Indonesia co. for Indonesian made CN212i.


Yes you have better relationship to America. Yes you get US weaponry, receiving better treatment. Yes you can build aircraft, ships and submarines with the assistance from South Korea and other western partners.

But if the Chinese take over the South China Sea tomorrow, controlling the $5 trillion commercial see traffic, can you do anything to stop the Chinese?

Can singapore, the other privileged nation, do anything?

If again the Khmer run amok staging genocide, can you do anything?

Can you do anything at all if a conflict or war breaks out in the region?

In reality you can Nothing.

So all others. They can nothing, either.

But if Vietnam gets a little bit better access to western weaponry, the Chinese become sleepless. The Chinese will pour money into Cambodia and Thailand as if we want to enslave the people of south east Asia tomorrow.

In short, Vietnam can alter the balance of power.

The Chinese know it: Indonesia and the rest can be ignored.

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> Yes you have better relationship to America. Yes you get US weaponry, receiving better treatment. Yes you can build aircraft, ships and submarines with the assistance from South Korea and other western partners.
> 
> But if the Chinese take over the South China Sea tomorrow, controlling the $5 trillion commercial see traffic, can you do anything to stop the Chinese?
> 
> Can singapore, the other privileged nation, do anything?
> 
> If again the Khmer run amok staging genocide, can you do anything?
> 
> Can you do anything at all if a conflict or war breaks out in the region?
> 
> In reality you can Nothing.
> 
> So all others. They can nothing, either.
> 
> But if Vietnam gets a little bit better access to western weaponry, the Chinese become sleepless. The Chinese will pour money into Cambodia and Thailand as if we want to enslave the people of south east Asia tomorrow.
> 
> In short, Vietnam can alter the balance of power.
> 
> The Chinese know it: Indonesia and the rest can be ignored.


That's the reason why the chinese invest in the Formosa steel complex. Their grand purpose is to poison all the fish off the coast of central vietnam. By killing all the fishes, they will make all the fishing boats of vietnam grounded and have no incentive of going out at sea. When the scs is absence with all the viet fishing boats then the scs is a de facto chinese water. This is the reason why uprising has been en masse around the formosa steel complex with local people demand your vcp to shut down the complex.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> That's the reason why the chinese invest in the Formosa steel complex. Their grand purpose is to poison all the fish off the coast of central vietnam. By killing all the fishes, they will make all the fishing boats of vietnam grounded and have no incentive of going out at sea. When the scs is absence with all the viet fishing boats then the scs is a de facto chinese water. This is the reason why uprising has been en masse around the formosa steel complex with local people demand your vcp to shut down the complex.


Don't talk nonsense. Formosa steel plant is not under control of Ccp. If anything the company is under control of shareholders, and now under strict scrutiny of Vietnam environmental ministry. The Taiwanese bring $11b, later additional $11b, so in total $22b. That is a lot of money for Vietnam. They generate jobs and incomes for hundred thousand of workers. They pay taxes. And don't forget why the steel plant is set up: we need steel to reduce imports from China. 22.5m ton steel. the capacity will double to 45m ton in the second phase.

I can understand the protests, but demand of shutting down the plant is rediculous. And dangerous. It won't help anyone but will harm Vietnam enormously.


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## Nike

@Viet your reasoning is baseless and more like some ultra Nationalist bastard who keep arguing meh Country is the best and yuo other is nuthing, and thats very big LOL.

What made Vietnam can be better to utilizing all of the western made weapons compared to other Countries like Indonesia, Singapore who had already established our military doctrine, training module and perfected the way to use it for decades? And we had been fighting our wars with those kind of equipments and capable to handling demanding logistic issue and so on

Remember, even your South Vietnamese brethren cant utilize many US and her allies made war machines because they found it logistical demanding and very complex by nature . Is the same story cant be repeated again? Vietnam Army which is lack in initiative and research field units because of Sovyet commies doctrine standard will not get a hold to utilize NATO standard model.

In case of War against China, please stop dreaming. Your Country will be very much isolated and blockaded the moment the war is declared. The only possible routes of help for Vietnam is from the Southern Countries, like Indonesia, Australia, Singapore, and Malaysia who hold considerable Naval power and have mutual assistance arrangement between them. But it seems YOUR SUPER DUPER FROM ANOTHER PLANET OF COUNTRY CALLED VIETNAM CAN FACE ANYTHING ON EARTH ALONE, SO WHY BOTHER WITH US.


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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> *Don't talk nonsense*. Formosa steel plant is not under control of Ccp. If anything the company is under control of shareholders, and now under strict scrutiny of Vietnam environmental ministry. The Taiwanese bring $11b, later additional $11b, so in total $22b. That is a lot of money for Vietnam. They generate jobs and incomes for hundred thousand of workers. They pay taxes. And don't forget why the steel plant is set up: we need steel to reduce imports from China. 22.5m ton steel. the capacity will double to 45m ton in the second phase.
> 
> I can understand the protests, but demand of shutting down the plant is rediculous. And dangerous. It won't help anyone but will harm Vietnam enormously.


What nonsense? I'm nonsense? Ok, what about the 90 million plus Viet people in Vietnam? You are such a tool of the VCP. Everyone in Vietnam with the exception of vcp supporters want to shut down this Formosa crap immediately. Let's talk about something nonsense here. Even the folks from Ha Tinh where they are supposed to work for this Formosa complex protest en masse demanding this steel complex to be shut down and they promise that they won't stop protesting until this steel complex is shut down. Do you even know that just two weeks ago, people protested right in the middle of Saigon demanding the vcp to shut down this Formosa crap?

You want more nonsense? There is no more fish (except dead fishes) for fishermen in the central coast of Vietnam to fish thanks to your Formosa steel plant polluting the environment. The fishermen of the central coast have lost their only and main source of income ie fishing. The Chinese are killing the normal viet folks from inside Vietnam without firing a single shot and you're still cheering on it?

And FYI the Chinese do not bring in $11 billion with this steel complex and hand it to your hand. $11 billion is the capitalized amount of their own equipment, machineries, materials to build this steel complex. They even bring in their own workers to build it too. Vietnam is getting NOTHING out of this $11 billion my naïve friend. Let me tell you what Vietnam will get out of this Formosa crap that Vietnamese folks want to shut it down NOW; cheap wages paid to a couple thousand of workers. Let's say that the median wage is $2000 usd/year per worker and the complex employ 5000 workers; that's $1 million usd. Yup, that's *$1 million usd/year that this Formosa crap complex is contributing to the economy of Vietnam.* In return, the Formosa complex poison and kill all the fishes of Vietnam and cost Vietnam BILLION of dollars. 

I'm very generous with the $1 million usd number; this number should be ZERO now because none of the Viet at Ha Tinh wants to work for this Formosa complex so where can the Chinese find people to work for them; they have to import Chinese workers into Vietnam to take care of this crap.


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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> What nonsense? I'm nonsense? Ok, what about the 90 million plus Viet people in Vietnam? You are such a tool of the VCP. Everyone in Vietnam with the exception of vcp supporters want to shut down this Formosa crap immediately. Let's talk about something nonsense here. Even the folks from Ha Tinh where they are supposed to work for this Formosa complex protest en masse demanding this steel complex to be shut down and they promise that they won't stop protesting until this steel complex is shut down. Do you even know that just two weeks ago, people protested right in the middle of Saigon demanding the vcp to shut down this Formosa crap?
> 
> You want more nonsense? There is no more fish (except dead fishes) for fishermen in the central coast of Vietnam to fish thanks to your Formosa steel plant polluting the environment. The fishermen of the central coast have lost their only and main source of income ie fishing. The Chinese are killing the normal viet folks from inside Vietnam without firing a single shot and you're still cheering on it?
> 
> And FYI the Chinese do not bring in $11 billion with this steel complex and hand it to your hand. $11 billion is the capitalized amount of their own equipment, machineries, materials to build this steel complex. They even bring in their own workers to build it too. Vietnam is getting NOTHING out of this $11 billion my naïve friend. Let me tell you what Vietnam will get out of this Formosa crap that Vietnamese folks want to shut it down NOW; cheap wages paid to a couple thousand of workers. Let's say that the median wage is $2000 usd/year per worker and the complex employ 5000 workers; that's $1 million usd. Yup, that's *$1 million usd/year that this Formosa crap complex is contributing to the economy of Vietnam.* In return, the Formosa complex poison and kill all the fishes of Vietnam and cost Vietnam BILLION of dollars.
> 
> I'm very generous with the $1 million usd number; this number should be ZERO now because none of the Viet at Ha Tinh wants to work for this Formosa complex so where can the Chinese find people to work for them; they have to import Chinese workers into Vietnam to take care of this crap.


Hey $1m is money too, isn't it? You should write more such essays to invite more foreigners putting more money to Vietnam. Because the foreigners profits most, while Vietnam nothing. As for Chinese workers, in case you haven't noticed, Vietnam has liberated the labor laws. Any foreigner with high skills, with university degree, the domestic market cannot offer, is welcome to come to Vietnam seeking job and opportunity.

You are troller!

I give you a hint. Exxon invests $10b in a gas project. Vietnam government is expected to get $20n as share of the project. Assuming the profit is shared 50:50, Exxon gets $10b, while the Vietnamese partner gets $10$.

Formosa is no exception. I expect Vietnam and the company will share 50:50 profits. As there is no Vietnamese partner, Formosa will get 50pct.

foreign companies expect a minimum of 10pct interest or return on investment capital. If Vietnam fails to offer such profit, nobody will invest.

Also true, Vietnam will not offer profits to foreigners if she doesn't get a fair share.



madokafc said:


> @Viet your reasoning is baseless and more like some ultra Nationalist bastard who keep arguing meh Country is the best and yuo other is nuthing, and thats very big LOL.
> 
> What made Vietnam can be better to utilizing all of the western made weapons compared to other Countries like Indonesia, Singapore who had already established our military doctrine, training module and perfected the way to use it for decades? And we had been fighting our wars with those kind of equipments and capable to handling demanding logistic issue and so on
> 
> Remember, even your South Vietnamese brethren cant utilize many US and her allies made war machines because they found it logistical demanding and very complex by nature . Is the same story cant be repeated again? Vietnam Army which is lack in initiative and research field units because of Sovyet commies doctrine standard will not get a hold to utilize NATO standard model.
> 
> In case of War against China, please stop dreaming. Your Country will be very much isolated and blockaded the moment the war is declared. The only possible routes of help for Vietnam is from the Southern Countries, like Indonesia, Australia, Singapore, and Malaysia who hold considerable Naval power and have mutual assistance arrangement between them. But it seems YOUR SUPER DUPER FROM ANOTHER PLANET OF COUNTRY CALLED VIETNAM CAN FACE ANYTHING ON EARTH ALONE, SO WHY BOTHER WITH US.


Calm down sis. You failed to answer the questions I raised. Nothing with super ultra nationalistic bastard as you shouted at me. For example,

If the Chinese want to take over the South China Sea tomorrow, what can you do?

Or do you continue to sit on Leopard Panzers, driving around the Jakarta road until the fuel runs out?

I don't think the Chinese will be impressed by your well established military doctrine, training module and will stop the invasion of the South China Sea.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> That's the reason why the chinese invest in the Formosa steel complex. Their grand purpose is to poison all the fish off the coast of central vietnam. By killing all the fishes, they will make all the fishing boats of vietnam grounded and have no incentive of going out at sea. When the scs is absence with all the viet fishing boats then the scs is a de facto chinese water. This is the reason why uprising has been en masse around the formosa steel complex with local people demand your vcp to shut down the complex.



Interesting, according to you, the chinese control a private taiwanese company and the pollution was done for political purposes. Brilliant !!! as it can only be expected from a highly evolved brain as yours 



madokafc said:


> @Viet your reasoning is baseless and more like some ultra Nationalist bastard who keep arguing meh Country is the best and yuo other is nuthing, and thats very big LOL.
> 
> What made Vietnam can be better to utilizing all of the western made weapons compared to other Countries like Indonesia, Singapore who had already established our military doctrine, training module and perfected the way to use it for decades? And we had been fighting our wars with those kind of equipments and capable to handling demanding logistic issue and so on
> 
> Remember, even your South Vietnamese brethren cant utilize many US and her allies made war machines because they found it logistical demanding and very complex by nature . Is the same story cant be repeated again? Vietnam Army which is lack in initiative and research field units because of Sovyet commies doctrine standard will not get a hold to utilize NATO standard model.
> 
> In case of War against China, please stop dreaming. Your Country will be very much isolated and blockaded the moment the war is declared. The only possible routes of help for Vietnam is from the Southern Countries, like Indonesia, Australia, Singapore, and Malaysia who hold considerable Naval power and have mutual assistance arrangement between them. But it seems YOUR SUPER DUPER FROM ANOTHER PLANET OF COUNTRY CALLED VIETNAM CAN FACE ANYTHING ON EARTH ALONE, SO WHY BOTHER WITH US.



Good one, a well known ultranationalist is accusing someone else of being ultranationalist. 



hoangsa74 said:


> What nonsense? I'm nonsense? Ok, what about the 90 million plus Viet people in Vietnam? You are such a tool of the VCP. Everyone in Vietnam with the exception of vcp supporters want to shut down this Formosa crap immediately. Let's talk about something nonsense here. Even the folks from Ha Tinh where they are supposed to work for this Formosa complex protest en masse demanding this steel complex to be shut down and they promise that they won't stop protesting until this steel complex is shut down. Do you even know that just two weeks ago, people protested right in the middle of Saigon demanding the vcp to shut down this Formosa crap?
> 
> You want more nonsense? There is no more fish (except dead fishes) for fishermen in the central coast of Vietnam to fish thanks to your Formosa steel plant polluting the environment. The fishermen of the central coast have lost their only and main source of income ie fishing. The Chinese are killing the normal viet folks from inside Vietnam without firing a single shot and you're still cheering on it?
> 
> And FYI the Chinese do not bring in $11 billion with this steel complex and hand it to your hand. $11 billion is the capitalized amount of their own equipment, machineries, materials to build this steel complex. They even bring in their own workers to build it too. Vietnam is getting NOTHING out of this $11 billion my naïve friend. Let me tell you what Vietnam will get out of this Formosa crap that Vietnamese folks want to shut it down NOW; cheap wages paid to a couple thousand of workers. Let's say that the median wage is $2000 usd/year per worker and the complex employ 5000 workers; that's $1 million usd. Yup, that's *$1 million usd/year that this Formosa crap complex is contributing to the economy of Vietnam.* In return, the Formosa complex poison and kill all the fishes of Vietnam and cost Vietnam BILLION of dollars.
> 
> I'm very generous with the $1 million usd number; this number should be ZERO now because none of the Viet at Ha Tinh wants to work for this Formosa complex so where can the Chinese find people to work for them; they have to import Chinese workers into Vietnam to take care of this crap.



I supposed that the billions in usd that Vietnam has to spend annually in steel imports that will be replaced by Formosa's production is NOTHING right? I guess Vietnam has so much hard currency reserves and positive trade balance that it doesn't really need it. Brilliant again

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## Nike

Viet said:


> Hey $1m is money too, isn't it? You should write more such essays to invite more foreigners putting more money to Vietnam. Because the foreigners profits most, while Vietnam nothing. As for Chinese workers, in case you haven't noticed, Vietnam has liberated the labor laws. Any foreigner with high skills, with university degree, the domestic market cannot offer, is welcome to come to Vietnam seeking job and opportunity.
> 
> You are troller!
> 
> I give you a hint. Exxon invests $10b in a gas project. Vietnam government is expected to get $20n as share of the project. Assuming the profit is shared 50:50, Exxon gets $10b, while the Vietnamese partner gets $10$.
> 
> Formosa is no exception. I expect Vietnam and the company will share 50:50 profits. As there is no Vietnamese partner, Formosa will get 50pct.
> 
> foreign companies expect a minimum of 10pct interest or return on investment capital. If Vietnam fails to offer such profit, nobody will invest.
> 
> Also true, Vietnam will not offer profits to foreigners if she doesn't get a fair share.
> 
> 
> Calm down sis. You failed to answer the questions I raised. Nothing with super ultra nationalistic bastard as you shouted at me. For example,
> 
> If the Chinese want to take over the South China Sea tomorrow, what can you do?
> 
> Or do you continue to sit on Leopard Panzers, driving around the Jakarta road until the fuel runs out?
> 
> I don't think the Chinese will be impressed by your well established military doctrine, training module and will stop the invasion of the South China Sea.



as is Vietnam had power or mean to resist them 

oh yeah right in your dreams



Carlosa said:


> Interesting, according to you, the chinese control a private taiwanese company and the pollution was done for political purposes. Brilliant !!! as it can only be expected from a highly evolved brain as yours
> 
> 
> 
> Good one, a well known ultranationalist is accusing someone else of being ultranationalist.
> 
> 
> 
> I supposed that the billions in usd that Vietnam has to spend annually in steel imports that will be replaced by Formosa's production is NOTHING right? I guess Vietnam has so much hard currency reserves and positive trade balance that it doesn't really need it. Brilliant again



said Vietnam pompom boys


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> as is Vietnam had power or mean to resist them
> 
> oh yeah right in your dreams


Sis we have confronted the Chinese in more times than your hands with 10 fingers. Now it is your turn.

Show the world your military power in real battles. Stop riding on tanks making pictures of yourself. Stop talking of your superior military doctrine and other theoretical stuff nobody takes seriously if not proven in combats.

The Chinese are about to take over the sea lanes in east and southern pacific. Send your warships and submarines to stop them before the Chinese strangulate all. Can you?

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## Svantana

First of all I do not mean to offend anybody.

Our foreign policy of this country was born in 1945, is the policy of Free and Active. Free impartially block anywhere in the world and actively contribute to world peace, it is stated in our constitution.

To achieve this, our country since birth carrying out measures to enforce our policies.

We held a first conference for Asian and African countries in Bandung to encourage equality and freedom of Asia and Africa countries. together with Burma, Pakistan, Ceylon (Sri Lanka), and India in 1955.

We join together to initiate the movement of non-aligned with Yugoslavia, India, Egypt, Ghana in 1961.

Since 1957 until today, we send our troops as part of a UN peacekeeping mission.

We assist in the resolution of conflict around the region by peaceful means, such as providing the largest refugee camp for refugees of civil war vietnam in Batam island in 1979. Mediate the conflict in the region between the kingdom of Cambodia and Thailand at Preah vier area.

To attempt mediation South China Sea conflict that resulted in the code of conduct.

Indonesia never want to interfere with the interests of neighboring countries because Indonesia is bound by the foreign policy of 'free and active' and as long as there is democracy in Indonesia, efforts to uphold these principles are always there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Indonesia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandung_Conference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda_Contingent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galang_Refugee_Camp
http://www.dw.com/en/indonesias-role-in-the-thai-cambodia-border-dispute-still-unclear/a-6483440
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/02/08/cambodia.thailand.violence/
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/indonesia-pushes-for-code-of-conduct-on-south-china-sea-row/news-story/8235cec1ec86703f5f45d52bf4b9ad6a

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## Viet

Svantana said:


> First of all I do not mean to offend anybody.
> 
> Our foreign policy of this country was born in 1945, is the policy of Free and Active. Free impartially block anywhere in the world and actively contribute to world peace, it is stated in our constitution.
> 
> To achieve this, our country since birth carrying out measures to enforce our policies.
> 
> We held a first conference for Asian and African countries in Bandung to encourage equality and freedom of Asia and Africa countries. together with Burma, Pakistan, Ceylon (Sri Lanka), and India in 1955.
> 
> We join together to initiate the movement of non-aligned with Yugoslavia, India, Egypt, Ghana in 1961.
> 
> Since 1957 until today, we send our troops as part of a UN peacekeeping mission.
> 
> We assist in the resolution of conflict around the region by peaceful means, such as providing the largest refugee camp for refugees of civil war vietnam in Batam island in 1979. Mediate the conflict in the region between the kingdom of Cambodia and Thailand at Preah vier area.
> 
> To attempt mediation South China Sea conflict that resulted in the code of conduct.
> 
> Indonesia never want to interfere with the interests of neighboring countries because Indonesia is bound by the foreign policy of 'free and active' and as long as there is democracy in Indonesia, efforts to uphold these principles are always there.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Indonesia
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandung_Conference
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda_Contingent
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galang_Refugee_Camp
> http://www.dw.com/en/indonesias-role-in-the-thai-cambodia-border-dispute-still-unclear/a-6483440
> http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/02/08/cambodia.thailand.violence/
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/indonesia-pushes-for-code-of-conduct-on-south-china-sea-row/news-story/8235cec1ec86703f5f45d52bf4b9ad6a


You should be happy living on islands protected by seas. Far away from major powers. We aren't lucky. There are too many out there who want to destroy our country, killing our people, looting our properties by citing, using every excuses. No we can't simply do a policy of Free and Active. We can't do peaceful activities, can't hold peaceful conferences, can't travel around promoting indo way of live, either. The only thing that keeps us free is the power of millions cannons.

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> *Hey $1m is money too, isn't it?* You should write more such essays to invite more foreigners putting more money to Vietnam. Because the foreigners profits most, while Vietnam nothing. As for Chinese workers, in case you haven't noticed, Vietnam has liberated the labor laws. Any foreigner with high skills, with university degree, the domestic market cannot offer, is welcome to come to Vietnam seeking job and opportunity.
> 
> You are troller!
> 
> I give you a hint. Exxon invests $10b in a gas project. Vietnam government is expected to get $20n as share of the project. Assuming the profit is shared 50:50, Exxon gets $10b, while the Vietnamese partner gets $10$.
> 
> *Formosa is no exception. I expect Vietnam and the company will share 50:50 profits. As there is no Vietnamese partner, Formosa will get 50pct.*
> 
> foreign companies expect a minimum of 10pct interest or return on investment capital. If Vietnam fails to offer such profit, nobody will invest.
> 
> Also true, Vietnam will not offer profits to foreigners if she doesn't get a fair share.


You are so brilliant mr. troll. You acknowledge that Formosa only contributes 1 million usd to Vietnam economy while the steel plant destroys the multi-BILLION dollar fishing industry of Vietnam; what an idiotic trade off.

Your intelligence top it all when you claim that Formosa steel plant is going to share 50/50 profit with your vcp. hey, let me give you a hint; do you see Samsung or Toyota share 50/50 profit with your vcp? lol

Do you even know why exxon and Vietnam share 50/50 profit with that gas field? let me give you a partial hint. without the usa 7th fleet, no foreign corporation has the balls to develop that gas field within the 9 dashed line.
this is the largest gas field ever discovered in vietnam and it lays in the hottest spot of the scs conflict ie it lays between the central coast of vietnam and the paracels water; that' the reason why BP pulled out and exxon took over.



Carlosa said:


> Interesting, according to you, the chinese control a private taiwanese company and the pollution was done for political purposes. Brilliant !!! as it can only be expected from a highly evolved brain as yours
> 
> *I supposed that the billions in usd that Vietnam has to spend annually in steel imports that will be replaced by Formosa's production is NOTHING right?* I guess Vietnam has so much hard currency reserves and positive trade balance that it doesn't really need it. Brilliant again


I guess you are too smart to realize that it is the people of vietnam especially the local folks where this Formosa complex is located want to shut down this steel plant, right? Hey, how about the multi-billion dollar fishing industry of vietnam that is being destroyed by this Chinese steel plant? How about the irreversible damage to the environment that this steel plant is causing by making all the fishes of central coast of vietnam dead? do you even realize that there are so many steel complex in vietnam but none is being demanded to be shut down by the people except this Formosa crap? I guess you are too brilliant to not understand it, heh?


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> You are so brilliant mr. troll. You acknowledge that Formosa only contributes 1 million usd to Vietnam economy while the steel plant destroys the multi-BILLION dollar fishing industry of Vietnam; what an idiotic trade off.
> 
> Your intelligence top it all when you claim that Formosa steel plant is going to share 50/50 profit with your vcp. hey, let me give you a hint; do you see Samsung or Toyota share 50/50 profit with your vcp? lol
> 
> Do you even know why exxon and Vietnam share 50/50 profit with that gas field? let me give you a partial hint. without the usa 7th fleet, no foreign corporation has the balls to develop that gas field within the 9 dashed line.
> this is the largest gas field ever discovered in vietnam and it lays in the hottest spot of the scs conflict ie it lays between the central coast of vietnam and the paracels water; that' the reason why BP pulled out and exxon took over.
> 
> 
> I guess you are too smart to realize that it is the people of vietnam especially the local folks where this Formosa complex is located want to shut down this steel plant, right? Hey, how about the multi-billion dollar fishing industry of vietnam that is being destroyed by this Chinese steel plant? How about the irreversible damage to the environment that this steel plant is causing by making all the fishes of central coast of vietnam dead? do you even realize that there are so many steel complex in vietnam but none is being demanded to be shut down by the people except this Formosa crap? I guess you are too brilliant to not understand it, heh?



Not at all amigo, you are mixing up different subjects. You made a case about economics saying that Vietnam doesn't get anything and I refuted your statements which really didn't make sense from an economic point of you. I limited myself just about the economics related to having that steel plant.

Maybe you didn't notice that I didn't say anything about the other subjects that you mentioned, but if you want to know my opinion about the pollution and the fact that most Vietnamese don't like Formosa and as many protestors said in that famous slogan "I prefer fish", I can tell you that I agree with them.

The problem is not actually the foreign investors that pollute, the problem is the misguided government policies that give all investors, foreign and vietnamese a free hand to pollute. As government officials admitted after the formosa incident, the environmental regulations and requirements and environmental impact assessments of projects were just a "formality", nobody really cared or followed up on it. So, of course, investor will pollute as much as they need. The local government allowed formosa to build the underwater pipe and of course we all know why. The main guilt belongs to those that allow formosa to pollute. Bad government policies and corrupt government officials are the main ones to blame. And lets not forget that the first reaction from the government was to deny that formosa was to blame. Only when they realized that they had a very hot potato in their hands and that nobody believed the official story, then they turned around and started to change the story.

There are many smaller formosas all around Vietnam and is all happening because of the same reasons. At least the formosa incident woke up a lot of people and the government was forced to start to change their attitude to pollution and the environment.


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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> You are so brilliant mr. troll. You acknowledge that Formosa only contributes 1 million usd to Vietnam economy while the steel plant destroys the multi-BILLION dollar fishing industry of Vietnam; what an idiotic trade off.
> 
> Your intelligence top it all when you claim that Formosa steel plant is going to share 50/50 profit with your vcp. hey, let me give you a hint; do you see Samsung or Toyota share 50/50 profit with your vcp? lol
> 
> Do you even know why exxon and Vietnam share 50/50 profit with that gas field? let me give you a partial hint. without the usa 7th fleet, no foreign corporation has the balls to develop that gas field within the 9 dashed line.
> this is the largest gas field ever discovered in vietnam and it lays in the hottest spot of the scs conflict ie it lays between the central coast of vietnam and the paracels water; that' the reason why BP pulled out and exxon took over.
> 
> 
> I guess you are too smart to realize that it is the people of vietnam especially the local folks where this Formosa complex is located want to shut down this steel plant, right? Hey, how about the multi-billion dollar fishing industry of vietnam that is being destroyed by this Chinese steel plant? How about the irreversible damage to the environment that this steel plant is causing by making all the fishes of central coast of vietnam dead? do you even realize that there are so many steel complex in vietnam but none is being demanded to be shut down by the people except this Formosa crap? I guess you are too brilliant to not understand it, heh?


Where do I acknowledge the $1m figure? I said that is money, too. Learn the difference. If anything it is you who must provide proof for the figure!

Wrong. Vietnam has multiple oil projects without the 9 dash lines for years. Look at the map of oil drilling platforms of the southern part of Vietnam.

You can hope, dreaming day and night, Formosa will close the plant due to the demand of 100 protesters. But I'm afraid you will wait for ever. The chance of return of dinosaurs on the earth is higher.

I can see, you will cry the river when the HSR is coming.


----------



## Carlosa

*Rivlin tour is proof Israel, Vietnam are brothers in arms*


By XUAN LOC DOAN MARCH 25, 2017 11:09 AM (UTC+8)

http://www.atimes.com/hosting-israels-president-vietnam-seeks-closer-defense-ties/

Israeli President Reuven Rivlin’s tour of Vietnam indicates ties between both countries are improving, especially in the area of defense area. The state visit, which ends today, is just the second to Vietnam by an Israeli head of state.

In November 2011, former President Shimon Peres became the first Israeli leader to visit Vietnam. The bilateral relationship has progressed rapidly since then, with both nations exchanging high-level visits and extending cooperation across many fields, including trade.

According to Vietnamese statistics, the two-way trade between was US$1.3 billion last year, rising from US$68 million in 2005. Trade will increase rapidly in the next few years, with both countries committed to striking a free-trade agreement.

The core of the relationship is, and continues to be, cooperation in defense. In March 2015, Vietnam’s Deputy Minister of Defense Nguyen Chi Vinh and Israel’s Director General of the Ministry of Defense, Dan Harel, signed a memorandum of understanding on defense cooperation, that strengthened cooperation in areas such defense sales and technology transfer.

Earlier this year, Pham Ngoc Minh, the Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnamese People’s Army (VPA), received Mishel Ben-Baruch, the Director of the International Defense Cooperation Directorate of Israel’s Ministry of Defense. The meeting ended with a resolution to improve bilateral defense cooperation.

One month later, Yitzhak Aharonovitch, chairman of Israel Military Industries Ltd (IMM), a state-owned weapons developer and manufacturer, was in Hanoi.

In hosting Aharonovitch, who already visited Vietnam in February 2014 in his role as Minister of Public Security, Vietnam’s President Tran Dai Quang said bilateral cooperation, especially in defense, “has consistently advanced.” Quang, who toured Israel in November last year in his former role as Minister of Public Security, said Israel “has become a big partner of Vietnam in the defense field.”

Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, said he hoped that Aharonovitch and his company would continue contributing to advancing cooperation on defense.

That Vietnam’s president and a high-ranking VPA official received the head of one of Israel’s leading arms companies indicates Hanoi’s desire to enhance its defense ties with Israel and upgrade its defense capabilities.

In an IMI statement Aharonovitch said he hoped “both countries will work on streamlining the mutual collaboration and high technology knowledge transfer.” He stressed that the “advanced weapons systems developed and manufactured by IMI Systems correspond to the advanced technology used by the Vietnam army.”

While the main purpose of President Rivlin’s week-long visit is to foster cooperation in fields such as agriculture, education, health and trade, defense cooperation remains top of the agenda.

Like his predecessor six years ago, the 77-year old traveled to Hanoi accompanied by a big defense industries delegation, which reportedly includes MMI Systems, Elbit Systems, Israel Aerospace Industries and Rafael Advanced Defense Systems. Elbit, Israel Aerospace and Rafael are ranked 29, 32 and 43 in the 2016 Stockholm International Peace Research Institute index of the world’s top 100 arms-producing and military service companies.

On Monday, Vietnam’s Defense Minister General Ngo Xuan Lich received the leaders of the Israeli defense businesses. A day later, the first Vietnam-Israel defense industry forum was held in Hanoi. Lich, Rivlin and many other officials from both sides attended.

Also on Tuesday, Lich, a Politburo member, met with Rivlin and both toured an exhibit of Israeli defense equipment. During the tour, several Israeli companies, whose products were displayed, presented them with developments and advancements in unmanned planes and drones, sophisticated tanks, rocket launchers, and others.

While acknowledging that much has been achieved, both the host and the guest underlined the demand for and potential of ongoing, significant deals in defense.

According to his spokesperson, Rivlin said to Lich as “you and I were raised in countries which were battlefields, we all know that quiet, security, and peace cannot be taken for granted. The military and security forces have a role, not just in times of war, but also in times of peace.”

The message would have been well received not only because of Vietnam’s battles against foreign aggression but also for the country’s need to strengthen the military to safeguard sovereignty and territory.

China’s expansive territorial claims and its military build-up in the disputed waters of the South China Sea are now Vietnam’s biggest concern. They are also the key reason why Hanoi is seeking closer defense ties with countries that have advanced military technologies and know-how, such as Israel.

Russia and Eastern European states have been Vietnam’s main arms suppliers. That has changed in the past decade with the purchase of Western-made arms. It has, for example, ordered Israel’s surface-to-air Python and Derby (Spyder) missiles. Vietnam has increased its military spending and turned to Israel not only because it is one of the world’s top exporters of military equipment but also because the Middle East military power is willing to share its expertise.

In his talks with Vietnam’s Defense Minister, the Israeli President said his country was “a pioneer in that it recognizes the need to establish advance production lines with Israeli know-how in Vietnam, and to produce with Vietnam and in Vietnam.” Lich expressed Vietnam’s appreciation for Israel’s “extensive and excellent cooperation in the field of defense”.

That Vietnam places the greatest importance in Rivlin’s visit was evident earlier this week when he was greeted by the president, prime minister and Communist Party secretary general, the three most powerful positions in Vietnam.

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> Where do I acknowledge the $1m figure? I said that is money, too. Learn the difference. If anything it is you who must provide proof for the figure!
> 
> Wrong. Vietnam has multiple oil projects without the 9 dash lines for years. Look at the map of oil drilling platforms of the southern part of Vietnam.
> 
> You can hope, dreaming day and night, Formosa will close the plant due to the demand of *100 protesters*. But I'm afraid you will wait for ever. The chance of return of dinosaurs on the earth is higher.
> 
> I can see, you will cry the river when the HSR is coming.



Protest on the street of Saigon






Protest at Ha Tinh where Formosa complex is located










Protest in Hanoi






And yet Formosa contributes to the economy of $1 million/year while destroying multi-BILLION dollar fishing industry. Considering how much you love Formosa, I hope those protestors catch communist goon like you and throw you in one of those blast furnaces.

And no, Vietnam does not have any oil fields within the 9 dashed line adjacent to the Paracel island. the only oil fields within the 9 dashed line are deep in the south. The area within the vicinity of the paracel island is a no-go zone that's why Exxon is the only company that can develop and drill. 

I'm ready to cry a river when your HSR materialize, but *WHEN*?

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> Protest on the street of Saigon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protest at Ha Tinh where Formosa complex is located
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Protest in Hanoi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet Formosa contributes to the economy of $1 million/year while destroying multi-BILLION dollar fishing industry. Considering how much you love Formosa, I hope those protestors catch communist goon like you and throw you in one of those blast furnaces.
> 
> And no, Vietnam does not have any oil fields within the 9 dashed line adjacent to the Paracel island. the only oil fields within the 9 dashed line are deep in the south. The area within the vicinity of the paracel island is a no-go zone that's why Exxon is the only company that can develop and drill.
> 
> I'm ready to cry a river when your HSR materialize, but *WHEN*?


Where is your proof of $1m figure? Don't waste my time.

Where are the protester signs to closing down Formosa steel plant?

Are protests in Vietnam bad? Or bad elsewhere? If the German government accepts every demand of street protesters, Germany can hold election every week, closing all factories, returning to agrarian state.

Or returning to Führer state.

HSR details will come next year. You shouldn't miss the news.


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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> Where is your proof of $1m figure? Don't waste my time.
> 
> Where are the protester signs to closing down Formosa steel plant?
> 
> Are protests in Vietnam bad? Or bad elsewhere? If the German government accepts every demand of street protesters, Germany can hold election every week, closing all factories, returning to agrarian state.
> 
> Or returning to Führer state.
> 
> HSR details will come next year. You shouldn't miss the news.





Viet said:


> Where is your proof of $1m figure? Don't waste my time.
> 
> Where are the protester signs to closing down Formosa steel plant?
> 
> Are protests in Vietnam bad? Or bad elsewhere? If the German government accepts every demand of street protesters, Germany can hold election every week, closing all factories, returning to agrarian state.
> 
> Or returning to Führer state.
> 
> HSR details will come next year. You shouldn't miss the news.





Viet said:


> Where is your proof of $1m figure? Don't waste my time.
> 
> Where are the protester signs to closing down Formosa steel plant?
> 
> Are protests in Vietnam bad? Or bad elsewhere? If the German government accepts every demand of street protesters, Germany can hold election every week, closing all factories, returning to agrarian state.
> 
> Or returning to Führer state.
> 
> HSR details will come next year. You shouldn't miss the news.


Look, I already gave you how I come up with the $1mil figure. You otoh, just make up the 50/50 profit sharing just show how much of a clown you are. FDI invest in Vietnam because of low wage and a decent established infrastructure, nothing more nothing less. That's why I gave you the example of Samsung and Toyota in Vietnam just to show what kind of a clown you are. FDI enterprises pay income taxes in vietnam, (which is next to nothing due to the 15-year grace period) they do not share profit my goodness you are so dense. You are a waste of the forum's bandwidth with your over 11,000 useless posts.

You want to find signs of protestors demanding the closing of Formosa plant? Hey, do you even know that the theme of the protest is to close down the steel plant? Should the protestors write that in their faces too?

Don't waste anyone's time with your HSR "details". Show us when the HSR is finished building.

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## Viet

hoangsa74 said:


> Look, I already gave you how I come up with the $1mil figure. You otoh, just make up the 50/50 profit sharing just show how much of a clown you are. FDI invest in Vietnam because of low wage and a decent established infrastructure, nothing more nothing less. That's why I gave you the example of Samsung and Toyota in Vietnam just to show what kind of a clown you are. FDI enterprises pay income taxes in vietnam, (which is next to nothing due to the 15-year grace period) they do not share profit my goodness you are so dense. You are a waste of the forum's bandwidth with your over 11,000 useless posts.
> 
> You want to find signs of protestors demanding the closing of Formosa plant? Hey, do you even know that the theme of the protest is to close down the steel plant? Should the protestors write that in their faces too?
> 
> Don't waste anyone's time with your HSR "details". Show us when the HSR is finished building.


You should advise your president Donald Trump, the leader of western world, to follow street protesters demands. I don't want to post their slogans and signs here because I will get a warning. Too dirty.

You provide no proof, no valid argument, no value, nothing except low trolling.

HSR is coming. Stay tune.


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## Viet

Vietnamese submariners receive training in India, INS Satavahana.







That is the bay


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## Viet

*
Rivlin asks Vietnam to consider supporting Israel more*


At the conclusion of their meeting in a state visit to Hanoi, Reuven Rivlin asked the Vietnamese president to be more supportive of the Jewish state in international institutions like UNESCO.

Itamar Eichner|Published: 25.03.17 , 19:32

a state visit, Israel’s president asked his Vietnamese counterpart to reconsider his country’s votes concerning Israel at different international organizations.

The meeting between Reuven Rivlin and Trần Đại Quang was particularly warm and friendly, and Rivlin’s tone in his request was cordial.

“We are friends, and friends tell each other the truth, even when it’s not always comfortable,” Rivlin began. The Israeli interpreter who was relaying his words to Quang lowered his voice.

The Israeli president continued, “We ask of you, as friends, to consider Vietnam’s votes in international institutions. I’m of course not asking you to go against your heart, but saying that Jerusalem is not part of the State is Israel is like saying that Hanoi is not part of Vietnam.”

At the conclusion of their meeting, Quang commented, “We support the parties’ efforts to achieve peace for the Palestinians, for Israel and for the rest of the residents of the region leading towards the establishment of an independent and sovereign Palestine, living alongside the State of Israel in peace."

The economic and security relations between the two countries are flourishing. Vietnamese government and business leaders speak of Israel in terms of admiration.

As part of its security collaboration, Israel has upgraded T-54 tanks for the Vietnamese army. Israel defense institutions are providing Vietnam with aerial defense systems, drones, rockets, cyber-defense systems and more. An Israeli company has even established a small-arms factory inside the socialist republic.





Rivlin visits a Vietnamese elementary school (Photo: Kobi Gideon/GPO)(Photo: Kobi Gidon/PMO)


The Vietnamese are keen to purchase as much as possible, but Israel is proceeding cautiously to prevent sensitive technology from being leaked to the Chinese or Iranians.

During Rivlin’s state visit, the Vietnamese pressured the Israeli president on this, but he made it clear to them *that Israel must maintain its military superiority.* 

Despite this collaboration, Vietnam’s voting record at the UN on political issues related to Israel is more hostile, along with the country recognizing a Palestinian state. Vietnam consistently votes in support of the Arab bloc's positions.

Recently, Hanoi voted in favor of the controversial UNESCO resolution that disregards the Jewish religious connection to Jerusalem.

UN resolutions regarding the Jewish state that lack more overt political components have received Vietnamese support, however, such as in 2014 on a resolution submitted by Israel on entrepreneurship.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4940250,00.html

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## Viet

Frogmen & other special units

























Supersonic fighter jet F4 phantom, nickname "ghost", a symbol of US military power during the Cold War, deployed en masse to Vietnam in the war effort. In total the US lost 445 phantoms in combat and accident. That represents the greatest number among all aircraft, the US lost during the war.

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## Viet

the Imperial Seal, 4.5 kg pure Gold, was used by the Nguyen Emperor to attest precious documents.


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## Viet

Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich greets Sen. Lieut. Gen Leopoldo Cintra Frias, also Minister of Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces. only the Marxism idea remains strong, but the Cuban army has become a shadow of the glorious past. most of Cuba military assets are obsolete, many warships including submarines delivered by USSR became reef heaven for fishes. but there is one thing in Cuba, many nations in the world admire, and Vietnam wants to copy: effective and cost effective general health care.







Cuba libre!


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## Viet

As a sign of Vietnam-Cuba friendship, Cuban doctors are now allowed to work in Vietnamese hospitals. They will be first employed at Thu Cuc International General Hospital (Hanoi) 

_



_


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## Aqsuperman

In today episode of Vietnam made stuffs: 






M67 style grenades 






Smoke and bang grenade.






Ahh.........i dont know, fish sauce grenade ? 






Experimental form of MRE...........or so i though.

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## Viet

Marine training sail ship* Lê Quý Đôn* will set sail for the first ever international voyage to China, Philippines and Brunei.


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## Viet

*Russia Far East*

Greeting Russia Minister Yuri Petrovich Trutnev to Vietnam. the reason why he is on a visit to Hanoi is interesting. Trutnev acts as Presidential Special Envoy to the Russian Far East. He officially calls on Vietnamese companies to invest in the sparely populated but promising region. He adds the Russia Far East region offers big incentives for Vietnamese investors, is ready to buy Vietnamese goods and to export cars, food, cement, ore, plant equipment and fertilizers. Not bad, the Russians apparently need a counterweight to the Chinese, who slowly take over the Russian Far East. Currently, 80 percent of imported goods into the area are from China.


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## frequency

hoangsa74 said:


> You are so brilliant mr. troll. You acknowledge that Formosa only contributes 1 million usd to Vietnam economy while the steel plant destroys the multi-BILLION dollar fishing industry of Vietnam; what an idiotic trade off.
> 
> Your intelligence top it all when you claim that Formosa steel plant is going to share 50/50 profit with your vcp. hey, let me give you a hint; do you see Samsung or Toyota share 50/50 profit with your vcp? lol
> 
> Do you even know why exxon and Vietnam share 50/50 profit with that gas field? let me give you a partial hint. without the usa 7th fleet, no foreign corporation has the balls to develop that gas field within the 9 dashed line.
> this is the largest gas field ever discovered in vietnam and it lays in the hottest spot of the scs conflict ie it lays between the central coast of vietnam and the paracels water; that' the reason why BP pulled out and exxon took over.
> 
> 
> I guess you are too smart to realize that it is the people of vietnam especially the local folks where this Formosa complex is located want to shut down this steel plant, right? Hey, how about the multi-billion dollar fishing industry of vietnam that is being destroyed by this Chinese steel plant? How about the irreversible damage to the environment that this steel plant is causing by making all the fishes of central coast of vietnam dead? do you even realize that there are so many steel complex in vietnam but none is being demanded to be shut down by the people except this Formosa crap? I guess you are too brilliant to not understand it, heh?



c'mon bro. Carlosa is our friend. Chill. Bottom line is Vietnam needs to be free from Communism and needs more capabilities. We all know all the smart and talented Vietnamese go overseas for a better life and education. Once Vietnam is free from Communism, she will get even stronger and greater because the oversea Vietnamese will return to rebuild the country. I won't be watching anymore Communist defense systems here because they all are of a joke and can be easily disabled by many advanced weapons in the US. This time is not another Vietnam war. This time is more of a proxy war using automation and robotics.

There is no pride in purchasing weapons from another country. Temporary defense is nothing to be proud of. Just pure jokes and stupidity when looking at the Vietnamese Communist Leaders making stupid decision. They can only make simple things like hand grenades and hand guns. Building anything advanced would require the knowledge of the West, Europe and Russian and Japanese. To me, nobody respect those VCP leaders. That's why they are getting treated like dogs. What goes around comes around.

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## Viet

frequency said:


> c'mon bro. Carlosa is our friend. Chill. Bottom line is Vietnam needs to be free from Communism and needs more capabilities. We all know all the smart and talented Vietnamese go overseas for a better life and education. Once Vietnam is free from Communism, she will get even stronger and greater because the oversea Vietnamese will return to rebuild the country. I won't be watching anymore Communist defense systems here because they all are of a joke and can be easily disabled by many advanced weapons in the US. This time is not another Vietnam war. This time is more of a proxy war using automation and robotics.
> 
> There is no pride in purchasing weapons from another country. Temporary defense is nothing to be proud of. Just pure jokes and stupidity when looking at the Vietnamese Communist Leaders making stupid decision. They can only make simple things like hand grenades and hand guns. Building anything advanced would require the knowledge of the West, Europe and Russian and Japanese. To me, nobody respect those VCP leaders. That's why they are getting treated like dogs. What goes around comes around.


You are at a wrong place, in a wrong time to call on people to end communism in Vietnam. The key question you should answer is the current regime legitimate? If you look at Vietnam history that you will see, regardless of man or woman, regardless of political system, regardless of orientation, whoever liberates the country, expelling the invader, uniting the nation becomes the country's ruler. So it is for thousands of years. So no matter you hate communism, VCP is legitimate. Your personal opinion doesn't count, so millions of other Vietnamese. I don't like communism either. But thing is as it is. Calling ending the current regime, creating chaos and bloodshed only harms our people and country. It is only our enemies that can laugh. Vietnamese people rarely have a choice to vote the ruler throughout history.

Vietnam has a long way to go. You have the point in seeing weaknesses with VN weapon systems, however unfortunately you offer nothing to solve the problem except ranting. And shouting worthless things. Robot war. Hey my dream of aegis destroyer is more realistic. I once said it, there is little reason to glorify Republic of Vietnam. Pls don't bring the Republic as a best example where all were happy.

It is the evolution we should hope not revolution.

Neither in weapon nor political system.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> You are at a wrong place, in a wrong time to call on people to end communism in Vietnam. The key question you should answer is the current regime legitimate? If you look at Vietnam history that you will see, regardless of man or woman, regardless of political system, regardless of orientation, whoever liberates the country, expelling the invader, uniting the nation becomes the country's ruler. So it is for thousands of years. So no matter you hate communism, VCP is legitimate. Your personal opinion doesn't count, so millions of other Vietnamese. I don't like communism either. But thing is as it is. Calling ending the current regime, creating chaos and bloodshed only harms our people and country. It is only our enemies that can laugh. Vietnamese people rarely have a choice to vote the ruler throughout history.
> 
> Vietnam has a long way to go. You have the point in seeing weaknesses with VN weapon systems, however unfortunately you offer nothing to solve the problem except ranting. And shouting worthless things. Robot war. Hey my dream of aegis destroyer is more realistic. I once said it, there is little reason to glorify Republic of Vietnam. Pls don't bring the Republic as a best example where all were happy.
> 
> It is the evolution we should hope not revolution.
> 
> Neither in weapon nor political system.



VCP Legitimacy is a cover up. You know it, your family knows it. Your heart knows it and you admitted it. No need to tell me about VCP legitimacy. I know as much as you do about that subject. The difference is I make decision based on my heart not with my brain in that subject. The brain can be fooled. The choices that people made to move out of Vietnam to seek a better life is evident enough. You should know that better. If living in Germany doesn't make you any more educated, then that is obviously your personal problem to not be able to accelerate your knowledge. That's your goddamn fault!

People are already dying in Vietnam from getting abused by the VCP. State controls everything. The media, no freedom of speech, lack of human rights, lack of social justice, lack of government transparency. When someone speak out, they get arrested and then killed and nobody knows. Because they all work undercover and cover ups. You call that legitimacy? I call that corruption. Yet, you're defending it. You must have relatives living in Vietnam right? You must have no integrity and ethics and a conscience for not thinking about their own well being!

Who doesn't want freedom, prosperity, a better standard of living, an improved government structure, transparency and better education? You? or The VCP? Are you or the VCP afraid to give people control? The VCP must be very afraid to lose all of that wealth and power. They didn't fight the French army and the US army all by themselves. It is the people working together to make that happen. The VCP are a bunch of cowards who take advantage of Vietnamese people. People will make them pay. The VCP are not the brightest people when making decisions. But things are changing. With more people in Vietnam are using the internet to get knowledge and re-educated themselves away from the VCP mind control state media! People will start liberating for a better government!

The enemy is already laughing at the VCP, not the people. Don't be foolish! Those 6 submarines aren't going to defend a country. 

And who the hell told you my personal opinions don't count? You? Who are you to tell me what I do and what I should not do? Your opinion matters? who vouched for you? Get out of here! What have you done with your life other than as stated before "11,000" useless posts? At least I studied Engineering in Electromechanics and experimenting with robotics and automation. What the hell do you even know about robotics? Stop making up non-sense, it only make you look really, really ignorant! You have no credibility when talking about technology. You only know the outside, not the inside of how things work. It is deeper than what you think you know!

You want to know my solution? Advancing in robotics and high technologies. It can solve a lot of problems. You are already enjoying the standard of living all because thanks to automation and robotics. Quit kidding yourself. Do me a favor and read some books in Engineering. Germany is known to have one of the best program in Engineering. Posting garbage on this site isn't a solution. Only wasting your time from doing real things. Most overseas Vietnamese are already ahead. I don't know what happened to you.

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## Viet

frequency said:


> VCP Legitimacy is a cover up. You know it, your family knows it. Your heart knows it and you admitted it. No need to tell me about VCP legitimacy. I know as much as you do about that subject. The difference is I make decision based on my heart not with my brain. The brain can be fooled. The choices that people made to move out of Vietnam to seek a better life is evident enough. You should know that better. If living in Germany doesn't make you any more educated, then that is obviously your personal problem to not be able to accelerate your knowledge. That's your goddamn fault!
> 
> People are already dying in Vietnam from getting abused by the VCP. State controls everything. The media, no freedom of speech, lack of human rights, lack of social justice, lack of government transparency. When someone speak out, they get arrested and then killed and nobody knows. Because they all work undercover and cover ups. You call that legitimacy? I call that corruption. Yet, you're defending it. You must have relatives living in Vietnam right? You must have no integrity and ethics and a conscience for not thinking about their own well being!
> 
> Who doesn't want freedom, prosperity, a better standard of living, an improved government structure, transparency and better education? You? or The VCP? Are you or the VCP afraid to give people control? The VCP must be very afraid to lose all of that wealth and power. They didn't fight the French army and the US army all by themselves. It is the people working together to make that happen. The VCP are a bunch of cowards who take advantage of Vietnamese people. People will make them pay. The VCP are not the brightest people when making decisions. But things are changing. With more people in Vietnam are using the internet to get knowledge and re-educated themselves away from the VCP mind control state media! People will start liberating for a better government!
> 
> The enemy is already laughing at the VCP, not the people. You are naive and foolish and lack of common sense!
> 
> And who the hell told you my personal opinions don't count? You? Who are you to tell me what I do and what I should not do? Your opinion matters? who vouched for you? Get out of here! What have you done with your life other than as stated before "11,000" useless posts? At least I studied Engineering in Electromechanics and experimenting with robotics and automation. What the hell do you even know about robotics? Stop making up non-sense, it only make you look really, really ignorant! You have no credibility when talking about technology. You only know the outside, not the inside of how things work. It is deeper than you think you know!
> 
> You want to know my solution? Advancing in robotics and high technologies. It can solve a lot of problems. You are already enjoying the standard of living all because thanks to automation and robotics. Quit kidding yourself. Do me a favor and read some books in Engineering. Germany is known to have one of the best program in Engineering. Posting garbage on this site isn't a solution. Only wasting your time from doing real things.


if the majority of Vietnamese people follow your logic and recommendations, Vietnam would slip into civil war as we are seeing right now in Syria, or Burma, or Philippines or many other places in the world, where 10 different groups fight for their opinions, with every group believing it has the opinion of the majority of the people. luckily Vietnamese are pragmatic people.

No, Vietnam does not need radicals and fanatics whose mind is blinded by hatred, thinking solving all problems by weapons and simple solutions.

No I don´t know much on robotics. however I have a university degree in Telecommunications. you are welcome to discuss with me on topics about Internet, IT security, network infrastructures, VoIP, telecommunications, computer engineering. or thing as SDN if you have ever heard of it. that is the technology Google has deployed worldwide.

yes I waste my time when updating this thread and posting comments on other threads. you waste your time, too. at least I improve my English, learn to argument, increase my writing skill. and you?


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## frequency

Viet said:


> if the majority of Vietnamese people follow your logic and recommendations, Vietnam would slip into civil war as we are seeing right now in Syria, or Burma, or Philippines or many other places in the world, where 10 different groups fight for their opinions, with every group believing it has the opinion of the majority of the people. luckily Vietnamese are pragmatic people.
> 
> No, Vietnam does not need radicals and fanatics whose mind is blinded by hatred, thinking solving all problems by weapons and simple solutions.
> 
> No I don´t know much on robotics. however I have a university degree in Telecommunications. you are welcome to discuss with me on topics about Internet, IT security, network infrastructures, VoIP, telecommunications, computer engineering. or thing as SDN if you have ever heard of it. that is the technology Google has deployed worldwide.
> 
> yes I waste my time when updating this thread and posting comments on other threads. you waste your time, too. at least I improve my English, learn to argument, increase my writing skill. and you?



I don't think I have recommended anything or offered any advice in regards to how Vietnamese should liberate. I only stated that when the VCP continue to abuse people, then the Vietnamese people will liberate for a better government. You really need to read.

Vietnam State media are hiding and censoring everything from the public. But there are a few video leaks from civilian who captured some of the most human brutality on scene done by the VCP. Now, with more people having access to the internet, they are starting to see it. VCP suppresses knowledge for a damn good reason.

Vietnam is nothing like Syria or Burma or the Philippines.

Maybe one day I will discuss with you on that subject about IT security. I think I would rather not. It would run into an argument. I have a feeling that you like to argue right or wrong. I'm also an stock trader and a real estate investor. So I would have no time for that. Sorry.

I come here once a month. I don't have 13,000 posts as you do. You're pretty much here about 80x as much as me.

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## Viet

frequency said:


> I don't think I have recommended anything or offered any advice in regards to how Vietnamese should liberate. I only stated that when the VCP continue to abuse people, then the Vietnamese people will liberate for a better government. You really need to read.
> 
> Vietnam State media are hiding and censoring everything from the public. But there are a few video leaks from civilian who captured some of the most human brutality on scene done by the VCP. Now, with more people having access to the internet, they are starting to see it. VCP suppresses knowledge for a damn good reason.
> 
> Vietnam is nothing like Syria or Burma or the Philippines.
> 
> Maybe one day I will discuss with you on that subject about IT security. I think I would rather not. It would run into an argument. I have a feeling that you like to argue right or wrong. I'm also an stock trader and a real estate investor. So I would have no time for that. Sorry.
> 
> I come here once a month. I don't have 13,000 posts as you do. You're pretty much here about 80x as much as me.


ok I understood. you are a stock trader and a real estate investor, and as such you waste your time elsewhere. do you think I don´t have stocks and properties, not looking for opportunities to buy and sell? Do you think I don´t read news on VN, not knowing what happens there? but unlike you, I don´t call for bloodshed. Revealing a secret to you, and it is not bragging, when I say can do 10 different things in parallel, can read hundred news articles in one hour, run an own company.


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## fadine

frequency said:


> Vietnam State media are hiding and censoring everything from the public. But there are a few video leaks from civilian who captured some of the most human brutality on scene done by the VCP. Now, with more people having access to the internet, they are starting to see it. VCP suppresses knowledge for a damn good reason.


Nearly 100% of these images and videos are fakes, created to oppose the government.


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## frequency

fadine said:


> Nearly 100% of these images and videos are fakes, created to oppose the government.



Mindless!



Viet said:


> ok I understood. you are a stock trader and a real estate investor, and as such you waste your time elsewhere. do you think I don´t have stocks and properties, not looking for opportunities to buy and sell? Do you think I don´t read news on VN, not knowing what happens there? but unlike you, I don´t call for bloodshed. Revealing a secret to you, and it is not bragging, when I say can do 10 different things in parallel, can read hundred news articles in one hour, run an own company.



I didn't ask you if you were an investor or not. Stop qualifying yourself to me. As I already told you, there's already bloodshed in Vietnam. The VCP wont reveal it. Obviously, the VCP is not working out and people didn't leave the country into another country for a better future for a good reason. You as well. You are in a better country than Vietnam. You and your family enjoying the prosperity in Germany. Vietnam gained independence over 40 years ago and it still hasn't industrialized. It still rely on farming with hard labor. Stop making poor excuses for the lack of understanding about the VCP. I repeat, the VCP did not defeat the French and the US army on its own! Stop giving them credits they don't deserve! It doesn't give them the rights to take advantage of people's blood spill so they can enjoy riding in nice cars and live in nice mansions in Vietnam when 95% of the population can't even afford the wheels on those cars! You're blind to see reality. You are a fool!

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## Viet

frequency said:


> Mindless!
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't ask you if you were an investor or not. Stop qualifying yourself to me. As I already told you, there's already bloodshed in Vietnam. The VCP wont reveal it. Obviously, the VCP is not working out and people didn't leave the country into another country for a better future for a good reason. You as well. You are in a better country than Vietnam. You and your family enjoying the prosperity in Germany. Vietnam gained independence over 40 years ago and it still hasn't industrialized. It still rely on farming with hard labor. Stop making poor excuses for the lack of understanding about the VCP. I repeat, the VCP did not defeat the French and the US army on its own! Stop giving them credits they don't deserve! It doesn't give them the rights to take advantage of people's blood spill so they can enjoy riding in nice cars and live in nice mansions in Vietnam when 95% of the population can't even afford the wheels on those cars! You're blind to see reality. You are a fool!


I have no idea what you are talking about. I give you a tip: If you want to improve your writing skill, you should avoid repeating same stuffs over and over again, otherwise readers will get boredom and with the time they are annoyed.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about. I give you a tip: If you want to improve your writing skill, you should avoid repeating same stuffs over and over again, otherwise readers will get boredom and with the time they are annoyed.



That is your problem, not mine. You're generalizing everyone to be like you. Funny. Let's move on.


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## Viet

frequency said:


> That is your problem, not mine. You're generalizing everyone to be like you. Funny. Let's move on.


This thread is for VN military news, as well as any news of strategic importance. If you believe it is not the place of your interest, you can move on. Neither it is a place to advance your own political agenda. There are lots of forums out there on the web, pls free and post your rants there.


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## Svantana

Vietnamese Dinh Tien Hoang (011) Gepard Class Frigate at LIMA 17

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## Viet

Short barrel gun





The strategic head of Vietnamese army Sen. Lt. General Nguyễn Chí Vịnh on a mission to South Africa 





Morning exercise





Daily life


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## Silent Knight

Viettel "accidentally" revealed their VCM-01 antiship missile project on the C4ISR systems demonstration.


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## Viet

Maybe the Navy one day has demand for such vessel: high energy efficient long range oil tanker, 183m long, 75,000 dwt, buil by *Hyundai Vinashin Shipyard*. 6 vessels are under construction for a foreign shipper: d’Amico.


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## Carlosa

A picture of Vietnam's C4ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Computer, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance system) control center:

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## Viet

Silent Knight said:


> Viettel "accidentally" revealed their VCM-01 antiship missile project on the C4ISR systems demonstration.


A good sign of progress

actually we are good at programming, coding because many of our people are good at mathematics, logical thinking and solving techniques. If you look at students of Vietnamese ethnicity, they are among the best in schools and universities everywhere. Also if you look at companies around the world there is no lack of Vietnamese who work as coder or programmer.



Carlosa said:


> A picture of Vietnam's C4ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Computer, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance system) control center:
> 
> View attachment 387759


VietTel is no doubt a top company. But unfortunately she is one of the few companies that have achieved great things. She receives money and support while thousands other companies struggle on the market. I think they deserve to get money and support too in order to grow.

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## Viet

Reports surface the army is looking for a license to manufacture Uzi Pro.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> VietTel is no doubt a top company. But unfortunately she is one of the few companies that have achieved great things. She receives money and support while thousands other companies struggle on the market. I think they deserve to get money and support too in order to grow.



As I've heard, the government has decided to give the go ahead to Viettel to do a massive growth of its military division and will give them massive funding to build a whole industrial zone fully dedicated to military manufacturing and research. Can expect many interesting things out of that.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> As I've heard, the government has decided to give the go ahead to Viettel to do a massive growth of its military division and will give them massive funding to build a whole industrial zone fully dedicated to military manufacturing and research. Can expect many interesting things out of that.


That is the right move. VietTel can do great things. It rolls out 4G mobile network in 6 months throughout Vietnam. It produces most equipment it needs. It has all technicians and engineers it needs. *36,000 4G stations installed in six months. *

http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...ted-lightning-fast-4g-roll-out.html#ui=mobile

VietTel possesses own 500,000 km optical fiber. That is about 12 times of the earth circumference.

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## Carlosa

*Trump sends letter to Vietnam's president to promote ties*

By My Pham
Reuters April 1, 2017
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-sends-letter-vietnams-president-promote-ties-071420152.html





U.S. President Donald Trump walks from Marine One as he returns to the White House in Washington. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts
By My Pham

HANOI (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump has written to Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang to promote more cooperation between the two countries, the government website cited Quang as saying.

Vietnam and the United States had advanced ties to a new level under the Obama administration amid a dispute with China over South China Sea issues, while Trump has also expressed his hope for a stronger relationship.

Trump sent a letter to Quang "affirming his wishes to promote cooperation on economics, trade, regional and international issues", the Vietnamese government website said.

Quang made the remarks during a meeting with the U.S. ambassador to Vietnam on Friday.

Quang emphasized that Vietnam welcomes U.S. efforts to improve cooperation with countries in the region to maintain the freedom of navigation and aviation.

U.S. Ambassador Ted Osius was reported as saying that Trump is considering attending the upcoming Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Vietnam this year.

Vietnam had been expected to be one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) free trade deal which Trump pulled the U.S. out of in January, but Hanoi has also been building links with the United States amid a maritime dispute with China.

China claims most of the South China Sea, while Taiwan, Malaysia, Vietnam, the Philippines and Brunei claim parts of the sea that commands strategic sea lanes and has rich fishing grounds along with oil and gas deposits.

Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc said last month he was ready to visit the United States to promote ties, particularly trade.

(Reporting by My Pham; Editing by Kim Coghill)

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## Viet

Ted Osius, since years he is the US ambassador to Vietnam. There is a story about this guy. When Donald Trump won the White House, his transition team sent letters to US embassies worldwide, asking all ambassadors, who were loyal to Barrack Obama, to resign. But Ted Osius obviously convinced the new US administration that he is a career diplomat and as such be always loyal to the president. Whoever he is.

Vietnam says Donald Trump sent the letter on 2 February. That is almost two months ago. I wonder if there is any reason to hide it. A part of the letter says the US wants to work with Việt Nam and other nations in the region to ensure peace and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific region. I think that is a thing we can applaud and support. Somebody may be not amused.

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## Viet

Image Credit: Wikimedia Commons/ Thai Silver

*What Can Vietnam Learn From China's Economic Retaliation Against South Korea?*
China’s punishment for THAAD could preview what Vietnam can expect if South China Sea tensions rise too high. 

By Viet Phuong Nguyen
March 29, 2017


The dispute between South Korea and China over the deployment of the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system by the United States on South Korean soil has both political and economic ramifications. In particular, the retaliatory measures by the Chinese government against South Korea’s decision to deploy THAAD have been surprisingly damaging to the export-oriented economy of South Korea.

According to a recent report by a senior researcher from the Economic Research Institute of the Industrial Bank of Korea (IBK), this economic retaliation by China may cost South Korea from $7.69 billion up to $14.76 billion in the worst-case scenario. As China is the biggest importer of South Korean exports (more than a quarter of South Korea’s export revenues in 2015 came from China), the report concluded that the export sector of South Korea will likely be hit with the heaviest blow, with possible losses from the Chinese retaliation ranging from $4.14 to $8.27 billion (or from 5 percent to 10 percent of the total export value). Although suffering less in term of total loss, the tourism and entertainment sectors of South Korea will probably experience a much bigger percentage decrease (ranging from 10 percent to 30 percent) since they have been directly affected by Chinese government’s moves to partially ban the sales of Korean entertainment content and to discourage the promotion of South Korean tours to Chinese customers, who held more than 34 percent of all South Korean tourist visas granted in 2016.

The dire negative economic impact of Chinese retaliation for the THAAD deployment in South Korea has also been predicted by other international experts. Therefore, it came as no surprise that South Korea recently made an official complaint to the World Trade Organization about the economic measures used by China to strike against the THAAD deployment, which were regarded by the South Korean government as unfair and a violation of trade agreements.

There are lessons here for Vietnam, although not a direct parallel. The deployment of any U.S. missile defense system in Vietnam is improbable given the different security conditions of the Southeast Asian country, the lack of formal alliance between the two states, as well as the Vietnamese government’s principle of not allowing Vietnamese soil to be used by foreign forces. Nevertheless, the tension between Vietnam and China over the islands claimed by both sides in the South China Sea, which has been heightened in recent years, is a legitimate basis for Vietnam to worry about similar tactics that the Chinese government may use in case of unresolved conflicts. In fact, the territorial dispute over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands in the East China Sea was the rationale for Chinese economic retaliation against Japan in 2011 and 2012, which led to a significant drop in Japan’s exports to China and the number of Chinese tourists visiting Japan during this period.

Moreover, the similarity between the China-South Korea and China-Vietnam economic relationships gives the Vietnamese authorities plenty of reasons to anticipate comparable losses would be inflicted by Chinese economic retaliation. For example, exports to China accounted for 18.7 percent of Vietnam’s total exports in 2016 (around $32.96 billion). As a result, a similar economic drop to what’s expected for South Korea would cost the Vietnamese economy from $1.6 to $3.3 billion (around 0.77 to 1.56 percent of Vietnam’s 2016 GDP). Those most affected by such a decrease would be manufacturers of electrical devices, textile factories, and agricultural producers, who accounted for about one-third of the total export value from Vietnam to China in 2016. Since China is also a major supplier of raw materials to Vietnam, the manufacturing economy of the latter will equally suffer from any export restriction policy. A heavy dependence on Chinese partners has also been observed in the tourism sector of Vietnam, as more than a quarter of the 10 million tourists visiting this country in 2016 came from China. Using the IBK report’s estimate of a 20-30 percent drop in the number of Chinese visitors due to China’s restriction policy, the Vietnamese tourism sector should expect the loss of 500,000 to 780,000 customers from China in case of economic retaliation, or from 5 to 7.8 percent of the total number of visitors to Vietnam in 2016.

Note that this article does not discuss the economic consequences caused by China’s retaliation policy on the Chinese manufacturers themselves, although it can be assumed that such losses can be partly absorbed by the sheer scale of the Chinese economy. The political and diplomatic fallout from such tactics on China’s image among its neighbors and economic partners, which would be undeniably significant, was also not discussed. Nonetheless, the imbalance of economic power between Vietnam and China, and the heavy dependence of Vietnam on Chinese customers in various sectors, mean that the Vietnam government should carefully observe the damage to the South Korean economy caused by China’s economic retaliation against the THAAD deployment. Such observations would be useful for the development of conflict resolution policies in the short term, and for the restructuring of the economy in the long term to minimize the economic loss in case of unavoidable tensions or conflicts.

_Viet Phuong Nguyen is a research fellow in the Belfer Center’s International Security Program and Project on Managing the Atom, Harvard Kennedy School. He is a Ph.D. candidate in nuclear engineering at the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology (KAIST) after receiving a B.Sc. in nuclear physics from the Vietnam National University and a M.Sc. in nuclear engineering from KAIST._


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## Viet

On patrol





Fusible detonator





The new Gepard frigate pair will undertake live fire exercises in the Black Sea before official handover to the Navy.





Molynia & Taranhul guided missile warships in joint training exercise.








Warehouse with anti aircraft, antiship missiles









New safeguard directive for employees at military complex


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## Viet

The HCM City government sets the deadline for completion of site clearance of Thu Thiem quarters: end of this year. One of the late clearers: the *naval shipyard Ba Son*. The Navy should hurry up in constructing the new shipyard. In contrast to the old one, the New Ba Son is located direct at the South China Sea.


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## Aqsuperman

Another post about VN militia, this time mostly about support weapon.






Reloading a B-10 recoilless rifle 




Dshk with tripod






M1 60mm mortar






Support crew firing practice with SKS

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## Viet

her name is Ly Mởi, 19, comes from Laos. She studies at Vietnam police academy. Sweet.

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## Viet

ASIA TIMES
*South Korea, Vietnam aim for more muscular ties*

Hanoi's call on Seoul to back it vis-a-vis China in the South China Sea could signal deeper strategic ties between the already strong economic allies.

By HELEN CLARK
MARCH 30, 2017 2:24 PM (UTC+8)





South Korean Marines take part in a landing operation drill at a shore in Taean, South Korea, June 29, 2015. Photo: Reuters/Kim Hong

Vietnam asks South Korea for backing in the South China Sea against China; Seoul wants more coordination with Hanoi on North Korea’s mounting threat. So are the two strong trade and investment partners set to upgrade their strategic ties into a more comprehensive bilateral relationship?

Last week Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc asked South Korean Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se, visiting Hanoi to mark 25-years of bilateral ties, to support Vietnam’s position on the South China Sea disputes and help with its “law enforcement” in the contested maritime area.

South Korea’s Foreign Ministry said in advance of Yun’s trip that it was expected “to serve as a milestone for a closer coordination with Southeast and Southwest Asian countries on North Korean issues.” It also noted that Vietnam publicly condemned Pyongyang’s latest nuclear tests and agreed to take part in “international efforts to sanction the North.” 






Engaged: South Korean Foreign Minister Yun Byung-Se (L) with his Vietnamese counterpart Pham Binh Minh (R) in Hanoi on March 20, 2017. Photo: AFP/Hoang Dinh Nam


South Korea and Vietnam announced a strategic relationship in 2009 that covered military cooperation, high level visits and a strategic dialogue mechanism that has so far remained dormant. Seoul did not indicate it would play any time soon an active role in the South China Sea, though it said last year in a statement that “freedom of navigation and overflight should be safeguarded” in the contested maritime area.

Yun’s visit to Vietnam came against the backdrop of sliding relations with China after the recent deployment of a US-provided Terminal High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system to guard against possible North Korean missile strikes.

Beijing has said the system “impinges on its national interests” and has hinted at retaliatory economic measures, witnessed in this month’s closure by authorities of nearly two dozen of South Korean Lotte Group retail stores in China and a tourism ministry order this month to Chinese tour operators to stop selling trips to South Korea. 






Closed for business: A Lotte Mart shuttered in Hangzhou, Zhejiang province. Photo: Reuters


South Korea and Vietnam ties are centered largely on trade and investment. According to Vietnam’s foreign investment agency, South Korea contributed US$5.6 billion worth of FDI through the third quarter of 2016, a third of the total Vietnam had received at that juncture last year.

South Korea is already Vietnam’s biggest foreign investor, with major outlays in factories, property and retail. Major South Korean companies like Samsung and Lotte Group have both made major investment commitments to the country’s fast growing export and local sectors.

A bilateral free trade agreement, activated in late 2015, aims to boost bilateral trade from US$29 billion to US$70 billion by 2020. There are already an estimated 100,000 South Korean expatriates living across Vietnam, with vibrant South Korean neighborhoods in several cities, including Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City.

South Korean pop culture, known as hallyu, has caught on in a big way with Vietnamese youth, as has its television dramas with a wider crowd.






Fawning youth: A Vietnamese fan of a South Korean girl band. Photo: Reuters/Kham


Yet to date strategic and military engagement is at a low level, characterized mainly by occasional high-level visits and meetings on the sidelines of international fora.

China and Japan, which likewise have robust trade and investment ties with Vietnam, also maintain high-level strategic partnerships, with an increasing degree of military engagement in the case of Tokyo as tensions have surged with Beijing.

Yun’s high-profile visit may indicate the two sides are considering to activate the now dormant dialogue mechanism that could lead to a higher level of strategic engagement. The two sides, however, did not make a joint statement on any new strategic agreements during the one-day visit.

While South Korea has so far remained mum on Vietnam’s South China Sea request, unless Vietnamese premier Pham and his foreign affairs officials badly miscalculated, Hanoi clearly hopes Seoul is prepared to take a stronger interest in the region’s strategic balance.








Given Vietnam’s enthusiasm to embrace multiple nations and cooperate across varied spheres, the exclusion so far of this kind of engagement is most likely due to South Korean disinterest, especially under ousted President Park Geun-hye. Her predecessor, Lee Myung Bak, was more amenable, with the strategic partnership signed during his tenure.

For South Korea, Vietnam is uniquely placed to assist in dealing with North Korea. As an old communist ally, Hanoi still maintains close and cordial ties to Pyongyang, witnessed in the large number of North Korean students who attend Vietnamese universities.

On a bigger stage, Vietnam is also well-positioned to serve as a possible back-channel mediator between North Korea and the US – and by extension South Korea. It is the type of high-profile role Vietnam has long coveted, both to burnish its image as a responsible international actor and counter consistent complaints of its chronic rights abuses.






Old friends: North Korea’s then Foreign Minister Ri Su Yong (R) looks at an air raid siren that was used in Hanoi during the Vietnam War. Photo: Reuters/Hoang Dinh Nam/Pool


It is not clear, however, how Vietnamese national Doan Thi Huong’s role in the recent murder by nerve agent of Kim Jong-nam, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un’s estranged half-brother, at a Malaysian airport has impacted on North Korea-Vietnam relations, if at all.

South Korea will likely not want to wade too deeply or quickly into touchy issues between Vietnam and China, especially at a time when its government is essentially in a caretaker mode after the impeachment of Park and new presidential elections due on May 9.

But Hanoi’s invitation to Seoul to support its position in the South China Sea could signal South Korea’s entry to the fray, as Japan did years ago, if for no other reason than to provide a modicum of protection for its deep and wide commercial interests in Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

VPA rare tanks and armored vehicle. These guys appear every once in a while. 

V-100










BMP-2






T-62 






ASU-85

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## Viet

*Go East!*

Nearly every school kid knows the man. During the state visit to Vietnam, Japanese Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko visited the memorial house of patriot Phan Boi Chau – the initiator of "Phong trào Đông Du" - Go East movement. In the early 20th century Chau encouraged young Vietnamese to go East to study and seek ways to liberate the nation from the French coloninal slavery.

Phan boi Chau (right)





Difficult at the turn of the century because first, only few young Vietnamese had the means to study abroad, and second the French authority prevented the movement. No the figure available how many went to Japan. Today it is a bit better. The number of young Vietnamese, who studies abroad, is on the rise. In 2016, 53,807 Vietnamese students are enrolled in Japan. Interesting, the number is even higher than 53,197 Japanese, who were studying abroad.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...students-surge-nearly-15-thanks-lift-vietnam/


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## Viet

Interesting development: a large number of Vietnamese fishing vessels accompanied by Vietnamese coast guard are seen near at Panatag (Scarborough). The shoal was illegally sized from the Philippines by the Chinese. Durtete has apparently given the green light to Vietnam. Great stuff 

http://m.philstar.com/314191/show/5e386e299e1e4949b4741a8b466d4d82/?

@Carlosa

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Interesting development: a large number of Vietnamese fishing vessels accompanied by Vietnamese coast guard are seen near at Panatag (Scarborough). The shoal was illegally sized from the Philippines by the Chinese. Durtete has apparently given the green light to Vietnam. Great stuff
> 
> http://m.philstar.com/314191/show/5e386e299e1e4949b4741a8b466d4d82/?
> 
> @Carlosa



Interesting development indeed. The situation will be more clear after the meeting of Trump and Xi.
----------------------------------------

This article that follows is about Thailand, but I'm posting it because it shows the list of countries affected and that includes Vietnam:

*Thailand on Trump's trade hit list (Vietnam too)*

1 Apr 2017 at 15:06 ONLINE REPORTERS AND NEWS AGENCIES





US President Donald Trump speaks after signing two executive orders on trade in the Oval Office at the White House on Friday. (AP Photo)

Thailand is among 16 countries that President Donald Trump has singled out in an order calling for an investigation into the US trade imbalance.

Mr Trump also promised on Friday to crack down on "foreign importers that cheat", signing two executive orders that he said would lead to a historic reversal of his country's trade deficit.

US exports to Thailand last year were worth $10.57 billion and imports totalled $29.49 billion, resulting in a trade deficit of $18.92 billion, according to US Census Bureau data. That was an increase from $15.4 billion in 2015 and $14.3 billion in 2014.

Local industry experts warned earlier this week that shipments of Thai-made auto parts and tyres to the US could suffer if the Trump administration follows through on some of its protectionist rhetoric or imposes a "border adjustment tax". About 35% of all tyres imported by the United States come from Thailand.

The United States and China were Thailand's two top export markets last year, with each accounting for about 11% of total shipments. Major exports from Thailand to the US include electrical machinery, rubber, precious stones and processed meat and fish.

In Washington on Friday, Mr Trump directed some tough talk at importers that he believes are not playing by the rules, saying his two executive orders would lead to a historic reversal of his country's trade deficit.

"They're cheaters! From now on, those who break the rules will face the consequences and they'll be very severe consequences," he said.

He blamed the trade imbalance largely on unscrupulous foreign powers, aided by US special interests that have helped push through "bad trade deals".

"Thousands of factories have been stolen from our country, but these voiceless Americans now have a voice in the White House," he said.

"Under my administration, the theft of American prosperity will end. We're going to defend our industry and create a level playing field for the American worker, finally."

The first of the two orders will require a report on the causes of the trade imbalance within 90 days. It will focus on 16 countries: China, Japan, Germany, Mexico, Ireland, *Vietnam*, Italy, Korea, Malaysia, India, Thailand, France, Switzerland, Taiwan, Indonesia and Canada.

The Trump administration plans public meetings to hear from manufacturers, service providers, workers, farmers and consumers.

The second order calls for a strategy for customs agents to use legal tools to collect anti-dumping duties already owed to the United States. The White House is proposing to require new importers -- or those already found guilty of abusive trade practices -- to post a bond before their goods are permitted through US ports.

The Government Accountability Office says importers have racked up more than $2.3 billion in uncollected anti-dumping and countervailing duties since 2001.

Trump administration officials touted the orders as sweeping and historic. "If anyone had any doubt about the president's resolve to fix the trade problems, these two executive orders should end that speculation now and for all time," said Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross.

"This marks the beginning of a totally new chapter in the American trade relationship with our partners overseas."

According to the National Trade Estimate report released on Friday, the US deficit in manufactured goods has doubled since 2000, to $648 billion.

The biggest trade deficit was with China, at $347 billion in 2016, a 5.5% decrease from 2015 as imports from China fell.

Mr Trump will meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping at his Florida retreat this coming Thursday and Friday, and the trade deficit will be on the agenda. "And we're going to get down to some very serious business," Mr Trump said.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Interesting development indeed. The situation will be more clear after the meeting of Trump and Xi.
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> This article that follows is about Thailand, but I'm posting it because it shows the list of countries affected and that includes Vietnam:
> 
> *Thailand on Trump's trade hit list (Vietnam too)*
> 
> 1 Apr 2017 at 15:06 ONLINE REPORTERS AND NEWS AGENCIES
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US President Donald Trump speaks after signing two executive orders on trade in the Oval Office at the White House on Friday. (AP Photo)
> 
> Thailand is among 16 countries that President Donald Trump has singled out in an order calling for an investigation into the US trade imbalance.
> 
> Mr Trump also promised on Friday to crack down on "foreign importers that cheat", signing two executive orders that he said would lead to a historic reversal of his country's trade deficit.
> 
> US exports to Thailand last year were worth $10.57 billion and imports totalled $29.49 billion, resulting in a trade deficit of $18.92 billion, according to US Census Bureau data. That was an increase from $15.4 billion in 2015 and $14.3 billion in 2014.
> 
> Local industry experts warned earlier this week that shipments of Thai-made auto parts and tyres to the US could suffer if the Trump administration follows through on some of its protectionist rhetoric or imposes a "border adjustment tax". About 35% of all tyres imported by the United States come from Thailand.
> 
> The United States and China were Thailand's two top export markets last year, with each accounting for about 11% of total shipments. Major exports from Thailand to the US include electrical machinery, rubber, precious stones and processed meat and fish.
> 
> In Washington on Friday, Mr Trump directed some tough talk at importers that he believes are not playing by the rules, saying his two executive orders would lead to a historic reversal of his country's trade deficit.
> 
> "They're cheaters! From now on, those who break the rules will face the consequences and they'll be very severe consequences," he said.
> 
> He blamed the trade imbalance largely on unscrupulous foreign powers, aided by US special interests that have helped push through "bad trade deals".
> 
> "Thousands of factories have been stolen from our country, but these voiceless Americans now have a voice in the White House," he said.
> 
> "Under my administration, the theft of American prosperity will end. We're going to defend our industry and create a level playing field for the American worker, finally."
> 
> The first of the two orders will require a report on the causes of the trade imbalance within 90 days. It will focus on 16 countries: China, Japan, Germany, Mexico, Ireland, *Vietnam*, Italy, Korea, Malaysia, India, Thailand, France, Switzerland, Taiwan, Indonesia and Canada.
> 
> The Trump administration plans public meetings to hear from manufacturers, service providers, workers, farmers and consumers.
> 
> The second order calls for a strategy for customs agents to use legal tools to collect anti-dumping duties already owed to the United States. The White House is proposing to require new importers -- or those already found guilty of abusive trade practices -- to post a bond before their goods are permitted through US ports.
> 
> The Government Accountability Office says importers have racked up more than $2.3 billion in uncollected anti-dumping and countervailing duties since 2001.
> 
> Trump administration officials touted the orders as sweeping and historic. "If anyone had any doubt about the president's resolve to fix the trade problems, these two executive orders should end that speculation now and for all time," said Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross.
> 
> "This marks the beginning of a totally new chapter in the American trade relationship with our partners overseas."
> 
> According to the National Trade Estimate report released on Friday, the US deficit in manufactured goods has doubled since 2000, to $648 billion.
> 
> The biggest trade deficit was with China, at $347 billion in 2016, a 5.5% decrease from 2015 as imports from China fell.
> 
> Mr Trump will meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping at his Florida retreat this coming Thursday and Friday, and the trade deficit will be on the agenda. "And we're going to get down to some very serious business," Mr Trump said.


As a businessman, Donald Trump should know the wealth of a nation is not entirely dependent on trade surplus. Look at his country America. Or France. In contrast to Germany, France suffers trade deficits for years. 8 billion euro for the month January. A negative record. Are the French poor? Actually not.

As a strategic statesman, Donald Trump should realize Vietnam needs trade surplus to accumulate wealth and forex. He can tap the money elsewhere from rich nations, from Germany to Japan to China to Thailand. We are poor. We need money.

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## Viet

The number of anti aircraft missile batteries will increase to strengthen Vietnam air defense.


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## Viet

*Poverty*

Talking about poverty. Vietnam has come from a long way. GDP was $6.3b in 1989. that is about the size of today economy of Kosovo. And today? Still too little. At least as official figure suggests. There is an interesting projection of GDP for Vietnam in the years ahead, revealed in the recent resolution of politburo, the country's highest decision making body.

Vietnam tourism industry will expectedly earn $55b in revenue, contributing 10 pct of Vietnam GDP in 2020. simple math: GDP $550b in 3 years 2020. Although no politburo projection until 2030 is published, but if we consider Vietnam GDP growth of annually 6-7 pct, we can expect GDP would be somewhere between $1,000b and $1,500b in 2025 and 2030. a bit of irony: Chinese tourists will contribute the largest part of Vietnam economic rise.

Not a secret: Vietnam defense budget will increase in line with GDP. The time, when certain posters from certain countries laugh on old tanks, may end faster than expected. Thanks to tourists from China and the rest of the world.


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## Aqsuperman

How brave are the Vietnamese ? Very :v


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> How brave are the Vietnamese ? Very :v


Very funny...only in Vietnam: test firing a missile in a densely populated area.


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> Very funny...only in Vietnam: test firing a missile in a densely populated area.



With people commenting, laughing and filming. Well i think that is unavoidable given that we dont have enough land strictly for live exercises: Small arms ? Sure. Guns and Howitzers ? Sure. Rockets ? Acceptable. But missiles ? Nah :v


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> With people commenting, laughing and filming. Well i think that is unavoidable given that we dont have enough land strictly for live exercises: Small arms ? Sure. Guns and Howitzers ? Sure. Rockets ? Acceptable. But missiles ? Nah :v


Firing missiles close to populated areas is really a no go. By the way, I wonder how is the progress on ballistic missile program?


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Firing missiles close to populated areas is really a no go. By the way, I wonder how is the progress on ballistic missile program?


 For missile technology, i think we should learn from North Korea and India. In the case of North Korea, they had some achievements which are worthy to learn, especially when Vietnam had the long relation with them.

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## Viet

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2014/03/19/israeli-company-produces-water-out-of-air/

Vietnam acquires a crucial technology from Israeli firm Water Gen: extracting drinking water from air. WG devices use thin plastic leaves to condense water from warm, humid air. its largest unit can produce 825 gallons of water per day for only 10 cents a gallon (mostly in energy costs).







Not only crucial for civil population in time that face water shortages but also for forward deployed army troops. It's a perfect playing ground for Water Gen system as Vietnam weather is usually hot and humid. Like Israel.
















http://www.jta.org/2017/04/04/news-...king-water-from-the-air-for-india-and-vietnam


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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> For missile technology, i think we should learn from North Korea and India. In the case of North Korea, they had some achievements which are worthy to learn, especially when Vietnam had the long relation with them.



Israel also.

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## Viet

*Reported Incoming French Ambassador Has Connections to Vietnam*
BY DANIELLE KEETON-OLSEN | APRIL 5, 2017

The president of France has selected Eva Nguyen Binh, an official at the French Embassy in Hanoi and wife of the French ambassador to Vietnam, as its next ambassador to Cambodia, two media outlets have reported.

Le Petit Journal, a French international news site, reported that French President Francois Hollande appointed Ms. Nguyen Binh on February 8, along with 27 other ambassadors, months before his nation’s upcoming presidential election.






Ms. Nguyen Binh.

If the Cambodian government confirms her appointment, Ms. Nguyen Binh, whose father is Vietnamese, will become the first woman to serve as French ambassador to Cambodia, according to the government-aligned website Fresh News.

Chum Sounry, spokesman for the Foreign Affairs Ministry, could not be reached for comment on Tuesday. Mathilde Teruya, spokeswoman for the French Embassy in Phnom Penh, would not confirm the selection of the new ambassador “as long as the relevant authorities have not yet officially notified their approval,” she said in an email.

The appointment of a French national of* Vietnamese descent* to a position of power is likely to be seen by some as contentious at a time when Cambodia’s border with Vietnam remains a political lightning rod and residents along the border continue to make claims of encroachment by Vietnamese nationals.

Alain Gascuel, a French former journalist who has lived in Cambodia since 1992 and has connections in the French community in Cambodia, said there were concerns in the community about Ms. Nguyen Binh’s background.

“Many French people are anxious about the reaction of Cambodians [to the appointment],” said Mr. Gascuel, the former editor of French-language journal Cambodge Nouveau.

He said France may view the appointment of Ms. Nguyen-Binh as a way of helping border

negotiations between Cambodia and Vietnam. But others in Cambodia thought it was more to do with her being well-connected in Paris, he added.

Ms. Nguyen Binh, whose mother is French, is a career diplomat who currently serves as counselor on technical cooperation and cultural action at the French Embassy in Hanoi. She spent 16 years as a diplomat for the Foreign Affairs Ministry in France, according to her LinkedIn page. Her husband, Jean-Noel Poirier, has been the French ambassador to Vietnam since 2012.

_(Additional reporting by Michelle Vachon)_

_keetonolsen@cambodiadaily.com_


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## AViet

This thread should be renamed "Vietnam miscellaneous news"


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## Viet

AViet said:


> This thread should be renamed "Vietnam miscellaneous news"


bro if we reduce the topic to only military hardware and software then you can ask the mods to close this thread. Because there is not much to post. Vietnam military has the habit to hide everything. If there is anything interesting it will be revealed years laters.

Second, Vietnam defense budget is $5.5b and not $100b. The industrial military complex is still in infancy with no destroyer, no aircraft, no tank, nor nothing fancy toys. Vietnam is not a member of any military alliance.

You see the many "no's"?

That is the reason there isn't much to report.

Last, I don't mind if you appeal the mods to shutter this thread and the other from VN economy. Maybe it is time to move on.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> Israel also.




I believe media have been talking too high about Israel (the Jews control Western, especially Anglo-Saxon media). It has some so-called "high-tech" things, but far behind that of Taiwan, Korea, or even Singapore. Most of these techs are about software, which Israel has an advantage, thank to its close connection with the US. Regarding hardware, never heard about anything significant. Its UAV is very likely just an assembly work, with material and parts imported from many real high-tech countries, including China.

And Israel does not have any proven missile technology, while North Korea can send the satellite to orbit by its own rocket, which even South Korea (with Russian support) and Brazil failed after many tests.


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## hoangsa74

AViet said:


> I believe media have been talking too high about Israel (the Jews control Western, especially Anglo-Saxon media). It has some so-called "high-tech" things, but far behind that of Taiwan, Korea, or even Singapore. Most of these techs are about software, which Israel has an advantage, thank to its close connection with the US. Regarding hardware, never heard about anything significant. Its UAV is very likely just an assembly work, with material and parts imported from many real high-tech countries, including China.
> 
> And Israel does not have any proven missile technology, while North Korea can send the satellite to orbit by its own rocket, which even South Korea (with Russian support) and Brazil failed after many tests.


I remember you're the one who mentioned that Italy did not make anything worth mentioning. Lol. Save your backwardness to yourself. When Israel made fighter jet in the 1980's, your china, taiwain, korea, Singapore did not even exist on the world map. Israel became the 8th nation in the world to launch a satellite in 1988, where was korea, Taiwan, or Singapore? lol . do you think Intel has an r&d facility and fab plant in Israel for no particular reason? http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/corporate-responsibility/intel-in-israel.html. Your backward Vietnam is dumping Russian hardware and going for Israeli hardware speaks volume about how your boss's view of Israel's tech


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## AViet

We are talking about 2017, not 1980s. And what fighter jet Israel did make in 1980s?. I do only know about the failed Levi program of Israel.

Do you mean some rifles are all Israel hardware "high-tech"?

Regarding indigenous launch program of Israel, do you think Israel actually made the rocket? I doubt about that. Again, very likely it would do like India to import most parts, assembled and gave it an Israeli name. How can a 6-million country, 20% of them Arab, manufacture such a rocket, which need thousands of precise parts? Does Israel have such manufacturing plants in the first place. And where are the workforce?

North Korea can do, because it has thousands of weapons manufacturing plants. In addition, its workforce for weapon industry are huge with world class quality. They are probably among the most disciplined, highly educated and high IQ workforce in the world.

Even Vietnam, India or Israel are transferred missile tech and can claim to manufacture the missile by itself, can any of these country actually manufacture the missile turbo engine from A to Z (material, metallurgy, precise manufacturing, etc.)?

Do not say everything on Western media are true. Think and analyze by yourself, using your knowledge and information from various sources.


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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> I believe media have been talking too high about Israel (the Jews control Western, especially Anglo-Saxon media). It has some so-called "high-tech" things, but far behind that of Taiwan, Korea, or even Singapore. Most of these techs are about software, which Israel has an advantage, thank to its close connection with the US. Regarding hardware, never heard about anything significant. Its UAV is very likely just an assembly work, with material and parts imported from many real high-tech countries, including China.
> 
> And Israel does not have any proven missile technology, while North Korea can send the satellite to orbit by its own rocket, which even South Korea (with Russian support) and Brazil failed after many tests.



Obviously you never heard about the Israeli Jericho missiles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(missile)

http://www.military-today.com/missiles/jericho_3.htm *Jericho III Intercontinental ballistic missile*

To be clear, the Jericho I was developed with foreign cooperation, but the Jericho II and III are totally domestic and the Jericho III is an intercontinental missile. I'd like to see any South Korean ballistic missile program that gets remotely close to that. 

By the way, it is the South Koreans that ALWAYS rely on foreign assistance for all their main military programs.

Israeli UAVs are likely an assembly work? No kidding, Israel is one of the leaders in UAV technology and the number 1 exporter of UAVs. 

As usual, you talk first and check the facts later. 

@DavidSling care to comment?


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## Zarvan

*Vietnam looks to buy Delilah standoff-range missiles from Israel*





Delilah stabdoff-range air-to-surface missile (photo : valka)
Vietnam is looking to increase the capabilities of its fighter fleet at the expense of an Israeli-made standoff multi-role cruise missile that can strike targets over 250 kilometers away with pinpoint accuracy.

According to Flightglobal, Vietnam is considering a purchase an advanced version of the Israel Military Industries (IMI) Delilah standoff-range air-to-surface missile.

The purchase was discussed between Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang and IMI chairman Yitzhak Aharonovitch in Hanoi recently.

The missile is designed to target moving and re-locatable targets with a circular error probable (CEP) of 1 metre (3 ft 3 in). Unlike a typical cruise missile, which is locked onto a pre-programmed target prior to launch, the Delilah missile’s unique feature, as claimed by the manufacturer, is being able to “patrol” and surveil an area before a remote navigator identifies the specific target of the attack.

There is the issue of what Vietnamese aircraft would put such a missile to use. Their Su-30MK2 fighter jets could possibly be adapted to employ the missile or Ka-28 helicopters could also be adapted to sport the missile.

http://defence-blog.com/news/vietnam-looks-to-buy-delilah-standoff-range-missiles-from-israel.html

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## Carlosa

The canine warriors of Vietnam’s border defense force

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 04/06/2017 09:00 GMT + 7

http://tuoitrenews.vn/features/40397/the-canine-warriors-of-vietnams-border-defense-force







*Dogs of European origin have been trained by Vietnam’s border defense force to operate in combat missions like real soldiers.*

Fearless and astute, these canine ‘warriors’ are able to perform operations beyond the capacity of their human counterparts.

*In training*

The 24th Border Defense School based in Hanoi’s Ba Vi District is currently home to over 600 military dogs of various breeds that are trained as juveniles to perform various operations, according to Captain Tran Quoc Huong, deputy chief of the school’s first training division.

The school, administered by the Ministry of National Defense, is one of Vietnam’s largest training institutions for combat dogs.

Each dog is raised and trained by a single officer from birth to maturity, Huong said, and each officer is responsible only for their assigned ‘partner’.

“Some officers work with the same dog from their enlistment to their discharge from the military,” Huong said.

Gesturing toward his 33-kilogram German Shepherd, named ‘Be-Lit’, Lieutenant Hoang Tien Dung said it takes as long as five years to train a dog to be ready to complete real missions.

The first step, Dung said, is selecting the perfect puppy. Good shape, outstanding stamina, quick reflexes, a natural fierceness and mental stability are a must for any good combat dog.

To demonstrate Be-Lit’s skills, Dung walked him to some nearby woods where the animal was ordered to lay completely still in a bush.

The German Shepherd ignored all provocation from a dummy target, who whistled, shouted and growled at the dog to lure it from its hiding position.

On the ‘Attack!’ order from his trainer Lt. Dung, Be-Lit jumped at his target and knocked him over, then stood over the prone target and awaited further orders.

*In combat*

According to Lieutenant Nguyen Tai Tiep, once military dogs have been called to duty, even armed criminals can be overwhelmed by their fierceness and physical strength.

In November 2009, a drug ring involving an armed criminal gang in the northern province of Son La was busted thanks to the assistance of combat dogs trained at the school.

In order to avoid suspicion, the dogs were hidden inside baskets worn on the back of their trainers, who camouflaged themselves as members of a local ethnic minority.

“The camouflage could only work with mature and well-trained dogs, since they needed to lay completely silent inside the cramped baskets,” Tiep explained.

At 7:00 pm, the drug dealers, armed with pistols and rifles, were ambushed by the pack of military dogs after crossing a stream. Even the most hardened members of the group were frightened at the sight of the ferocious animals, and were unable to resist, Tiep said.

According to Major Nguyen Van Hung, not all dogs trained at the school are employed as combat dogs. Some are trained as sniffer dogs and used to detect illegal drugs being trafficked into Vietnam.

These dogs do not require great strength or agility, but a keen nose is essential, Hung said.

Dogs at the 24th Border Defense School enjoy nutritious meals at a cost of VND50,000 (US$2.23) per day, with occasional ‘supplements’ including baluts and milk on days involving hard training.

“Unlike other countries, military dogs in Vietnam are not ranked officers,” Captain Tran Quoc Huong said. “However, after they die, those with remarkable merits will be stuffed and mounted on the walls of our memorial rooms for later generations to remember.”

“Each stuffed dog on our wall is a proud reminder of our school’s history and an invaluable reminder for young trainers to perform their duty well in safeguarding our country’s borders,” Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Van Mao said.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> Obviously you never heard about the Israeli Jericho missiles:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(missile)
> 
> http://www.military-today.com/missiles/jericho_3.htm *Jericho III Intercontinental ballistic missile*
> 
> To be clear, the Jericho I was developed with foreign cooperation, but the Jericho II and III are totally domestic and the Jericho III is an intercontinental missile. I'd like to see any South Korean ballistic missile program that gets remotely close to that.
> 
> By the way, it is the South Koreans that ALWAYS rely on foreign assistance for all their main military programs.
> 
> Israeli UAVs are likely an assembly work? *No kidding, Israel is one of the leaders in UAV technology and the number 1 exporter of UAVs.*
> 
> As usual, you talk first and check the facts later.
> 
> @DavidSling care to comment?



Number 1 exporter of UAV and tech leader? How do you know? By reading Western (read: Jews-controlled) media? Can Israel manufacture engine, material and avionics, or just design and assemble from imported parts?

Have you ever read a news about Israeli UAV in combat? Where do they export to? In this forum, I can only see the news about Chinese UAV, which have been exported to almost all warring regions, like Middle East or Africa. And Saudi Arabia just bought 300 pieces of CH-4.

Nowadays, every Western firms claim they are number 1 and the world best.

And regarding who relies on whom, I believe Israel far more relies on the US for its military programs, much more so than South Korea.


----------



## Viet

AViet said:


> Is
> 
> 
> Number 1 exporter of UAV and tech leader? How do you know? By reading Western (read: Jews-controlled) media? Can Israel manufacture engine, material and avionics, or just design and assemble from imported parts?
> 
> Have you ever read a news about Israeli UAV in combat? Where do they export to? In this forum, I can only see the news about Chinese UAV, which have been exported to almost all warring regions, like Middle East or Africa. And Saudi Arabia just bought 300 pieces of CH-4.
> 
> Nowadays, every Western firms claim they are number 1 and the world best.
> 
> And regarding who relies on whom, I believe Israel far more relies on the US for its military programs, much more so than South Korea.


How about a quiz: 

in terms of military cooperation, if looking from Vietnam perspective, what do the armies of China and Costa Rica have in common?

a hint: China has the largest army in the world, while Costa Rica hasn't any army at all.


----------



## hoangsa74

AViet said:


> We are talking about 2017, not 1980s. And what fighter jet Israel did make in 1980s?. I do only know about the failed Levi program of Israel.
> 
> Do you mean some rifles are all Israel hardware "high-tech"?
> 
> Regarding indigenous launch program of Israel, do you think Israel actually made the rocket? I doubt about that. Again, very likely it would do like India to import most parts, assembled and gave it an Israeli name. How can a 6-million country, 20% of them Arab, manufacture such a rocket, which need thousands of precise parts? Does Israel have such manufacturing plants in the first place. And where are the workforce?
> 
> North Korea can do, because it has thousands of weapons manufacturing plants. In addition, its workforce for weapon industry are huge with world class quality. They are probably among the most disciplined, highly educated and high IQ workforce in the world.
> 
> Even Vietnam, India or Israel are transferred missile tech and can claim to manufacture the missile by itself, can any of these country actually manufacture the missile turbo engine from A to Z (material, metallurgy, precise manufacturing, etc.)?
> 
> Do not say everything on Western media are true. Think and analyze by yourself, using your knowledge and information from various sources.


Yes, what I meant is the lavi. the lavi failed not because of technical reasons, but political reasons. and Israel already made the lavi in the 1980's; which means Israel was way ahead of the game than your east Asian bros combined even till this day 2017

And please excuse me, but are you telling the world that a country can have a ballistic missile/space launch vehicle by importing the parts and assemble them together? if that is the case, every country on this planet can just import the parts and assemble them together like i go to an electronic retailer and buy all the components of a computer, put those components together and i have my own personal computer. LOL I hope you're not that ignorant. nobody sells you that kind of parts and the metallurgy with those parts. the moment you import the parts people will notice you right away. You have to design your own rocket, know your own specs, and fabricate the parts yourself. then you must come up with a secret metallurgy formula that can withstand the intense heat; nobody sells you that metallurgy formula. 

And do you even know that south Africa's ICBM program was a direct technical assistance from Israel's scientists? obviously you don't know that.

Intel doesn't have their r&d in Israel for no reason, you know. 

and please quit with your I.Q crap about how great the Korean, Taiwan, Singapore are. Let's talk about the most industrialized out of that bunch; korea. Their car was originally designed with technical help from usa, the car engine was a direct tech transfer from Mitsubishi; their high speed rail was a direct tech transfer from France; their battle tank was a direct tech transfer from the usa (abrams), their submarine was a direct tech transfer from Germany, their electronic stuff was a direct assistance from joint venture with Thales; their trainer jet is a direct technical transfer from usa, their shipbuilding is a direct tech assistance from the European,...and their UAV is a direct tech transfer from Israel via joint venture LOL.


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## AViet

hoangsa74 said:


> Yes, what I meant is the lavi. the lavi failed not because of technical reasons, but political reasons. and Israel already made the lavi in the 1980's; which means Israel was way ahead of the game than your east Asian bros combined even till this day 2017
> 
> And please excuse me, but are you telling the world that a country can have a ballistic missile/space launch vehicle by importing the parts and assemble them together? if that is the case, every country on this planet can just import the parts and assemble them together like i go to an electronic retailer and buy all the components of a computer, put those components together and i have my own personal computer. LOL I hope you're not that ignorant. nobody sells you that kind of parts and the metallurgy with those parts. the moment you import the parts people will notice you right away. You have to design your own rocket, know your own specs, and fabricate the parts yourself. then you must come up with a secret metallurgy formula that can withstand the intense heat; nobody sells you that metallurgy formula.
> 
> And do you even know that south Africa's ICBM program was a direct technical assistance from Israel's scientists? obviously you don't know that.
> 
> Intel doesn't have their r&d in Israel for no reason, you know.
> 
> and please quit with your I.Q crap about how great the Korean, Taiwan, Singapore are. Let's talk about the most industrialized out of that bunch; korea. * Their car was originally designed with technical help from usa, the car engine was a direct tech transfer from Mitsubishi; their high speed rail was a direct tech transfer from France; their battle tank was a direct tech transfer from the usa (abrams), their submarine was a direct tech transfer from Germany, their electronic stuff was a direct assistance from joint venture with Thales; their trainer jet is a direct technical transfer from usa, their shipbuilding is a direct tech assistance from the European*,...and their UAV is a direct tech transfer from Israel via joint venture LOL.



In last 100 years, all these craps come from the US (and other Anglo-Saxon) propaganda mouthpieces. These satisfy the ego of American, a low IQ, stupid but arrogant people.

I know the education quality in the US is bad, but not that bad. But when I see the logic of Vietnamese American on this forum and other forums, I understand.

When some Chinese company copy a product in the West, it is China who only know to copy. But when a US company use a DJI drone platform, install something on it and claim it is their own "invention", it is not considered a direct pirate or even a copy, but a great US innovation on Western media. How low the US people has become.

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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> Is
> 
> 
> Number 1 exporter of UAV and tech leader? How do you know? By reading Western (read: Jews-controlled) media? Can Israel manufacture engine, material and avionics, or just design and assemble from imported parts?
> 
> Have you ever read a news about Israeli UAV in combat? Where do they export to? In this forum, I can only see the news about Chinese UAV, which have been exported to almost all warring regions, like Middle East or Africa. And Saudi Arabia just bought 300 pieces of CH-4.
> 
> Nowadays, every Western firms claim they are number 1 and the world best.
> 
> And regarding who relies on whom, I believe Israel far more relies on the US for its military programs, much more so than South Korea.



How do I know? I happen to read a lot and I keep myself informed. If you only get your news from this forum, you obviously not going to know much, and yes, Israel builds the whole thing and all components and yes, it is very well known that they are the number 1 exporter of UAVs. You obviously are not familiar enough with Israel's military technology. They do have some programs where they cooperate with USA, but for the most part they do their own thing. South Korea's military tech is way behind Israel, anybody that knows anything about the subject knows this.



AViet said:


> In last 100 years, all these craps come from the US (and other Anglo-Saxon) propaganda mouthpieces. These satisfy the ego of American, a low IQ, stupid but arrogant people.
> 
> I know the education quality in the US is bad, but not that bad. But when I see the logic of Vietnamese American on this forum and other forums, I understand.
> 
> When some Chinese company copy a product in the West, it is China who only know to copy. But when a US company use a DJI drone platform, install something on it and claim it is their own "invention", it is not considered a direct pirate or even a copy, but a great US innovation on Western media. How low the US people has become.



The American high school system is very well known to be crap, its designed to just about let everybody pass, but their universities are top level; why do you think everybody wants to go to study at American universities including lots of Chinese? Your anti western prejudice makes you blind and dictates what you want to believe, so be it, feel free to deny reality as much as you want and enjoy living in your own parallel universe man.



hoangsa74 said:


> Yes, what I meant is the lavi. the lavi failed not because of technical reasons, but political reasons. and Israel already made the lavi in the 1980's; which means Israel was way ahead of the game than your east Asian bros combined even till this day 2017
> 
> And please excuse me, but are you telling the world that a country can have a ballistic missile/space launch vehicle by importing the parts and assemble them together? if that is the case, every country on this planet can just import the parts and assemble them together like i go to an electronic retailer and buy all the components of a computer, put those components together and i have my own personal computer. LOL I hope you're not that ignorant. nobody sells you that kind of parts and the metallurgy with those parts. the moment you import the parts people will notice you right away. You have to design your own rocket, know your own specs, and fabricate the parts yourself. then you must come up with a secret metallurgy formula that can withstand the intense heat; nobody sells you that metallurgy formula.
> 
> And do you even know that south Africa's ICBM program was a direct technical assistance from Israel's scientists? obviously you don't know that.
> 
> Intel doesn't have their r&d in Israel for no reason, you know.
> 
> and please quit with your I.Q crap about how great the Korean, Taiwan, Singapore are. Let's talk about the most industrialized out of that bunch; korea. Their car was originally designed with technical help from usa, the car engine was a direct tech transfer from Mitsubishi; their high speed rail was a direct tech transfer from France; their battle tank was a direct tech transfer from the usa (abrams), their submarine was a direct tech transfer from Germany, their electronic stuff was a direct assistance from joint venture with Thales; their trainer jet is a direct technical transfer from usa, their shipbuilding is a direct tech assistance from the European,...and their UAV is a direct tech transfer from Israel via joint venture LOL.



Koreans have always been copy cats and that's very well known and continue to be that way for the most part. Israel on the other hand, CREATES technology, whatever they get involved in, they are tops. Simple as that.


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## Viet

*Vietnam To Receive Russia's Gepard-class Ship In September This Year*
Our Bureau
12:16 PM, April 3, 2017





Gepard-class frigate
Sputnik news reported today.

"The first ship will be delivered in September as it has already completed trials.” Zelenodolsk Shipyard General Director Renat Mistakhov said. However, the second is just starting trials, we will hand it over to the client in November or December this year," Mistakhov said. Both frigates are currently undergoing firing trials at a Black Sea naval training range.

Vietnam ordered this batch of vessels in 2011 and they were laid down the following year and construction proceeded on schedule despite Ukraine's refusal to supply components in 2016.

The Zelenodolsk plant had showcased its Gepard 3.9 frigate at the LIMA-2017 naval and aerospace exhibition in Malaysia last month. The manufacturer also agreed to supply the vessels to Sri Lanka during the event.

The Gepard 3.9 is an export version of Project 1166.1 frigates. It is equipped to engage enemy aircraft, ships and submarines, as well as conduct escort missions, patrol and support landing and mine-laying missions.

The Vietnamese navy received in March and August 2011 two Gepard 3.9-class frigates ordered in 2006, built in Russia at Tatarstan's Gorky Shipbuilding Plant.

A further two ships were ordered in 2014 to bring the total order up to six vessels.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/18...lass_Ship_In_September_This_Year#.WOaIArh4WEc

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## Viet

CNC machine capable to manufacture calibers from 60mm to 100mm. One of this: armor piercing RPG-9T2 (73mm).

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## 19887

AViet said:


> Is
> 
> 
> Number 1 exporter of UAV and tech leader? How do you know? By reading Western (read: Jews-controlled) media? Can Israel manufacture engine, material and avionics, or just design and assemble from imported parts?
> 
> Have you ever read a news about Israeli UAV in combat? Where do they export to? In this forum, I can only see the news about Chinese UAV, which have been exported to almost all warring regions, like Middle East or Africa. And Saudi Arabia just bought 300 pieces of CH-4.
> 
> Nowadays, every Western firms claim they are number 1 and the world best.
> 
> And regarding who relies on whom, I believe Israel far more relies on the US for its military programs, much more so than South Korea.





Carlosa said:


> How do I know? I happen to read a lot and I keep myself informed. If you only get your news from this forum, you obviously not going to know much, and yes, Israel builds the whole thing and all components and yes, it is very well known that they are the number 1 exporter of UAVs. You obviously are not familiar enough with Israel's military technology. They do have some programs where they cooperate with USA, but for the most part they do their own thing. South Korea's military tech is way behind Israel, anybody that knows anything about the subject knows this.
> 
> 
> 
> The American high school system is very well known to be crap, its designed to just about let everybody pass, but their universities are top level; why do you think everybody wants to go to study at American universities including lots of chinese? Your anti western prejudice makes you blind and dictates what you want to believe, so be it, feel free to deny reality as much as you want and enjoy living in your own parallel universe man.
> 
> 
> 
> Koreans have always been copy cats and thats very well known and continue to be that way for the most part. Israel on the other hand, CREATES technology, whatever they get involved in, they are tops. Simple as that.


Israel invented the UAV in the 70',all the world follow us.
Israel invented the battle management system to main battle tank,all the world follow us.
Israel invented the disk-on-key.
Israel developed the Lavi and sell it to the chinese,in china it became j-10.
Israel developed its own satellites/launchers/missiles,nobody wanted to help us.
The list goes on&on,but now i wanna show you a video





***I really love S.Korea the same as all israelis and jews worldwide

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> How do I know? I happen to read a lot and I keep myself informed. If you only get your news from this forum, you obviously not going to know much, and yes, Israel builds the whole thing and all components and yes, it is very well known that they are the number 1 exporter of UAVs. You obviously are not familiar enough with Israel's military technology. They do have some programs where they cooperate with USA, but for the most part they do their own thing. South Korea's military tech is way behind Israel, anybody that knows anything about the subject knows this.
> 
> 
> 
> The American high school system is very well known to be crap, its designed to just about let everybody pass, but their universities are top level; why do you think everybody wants to go to study at American universities including lots of chinese? Your anti western prejudice makes you blind and dictates what you want to believe, so be it, feel free to deny reality as much as you want and enjoy living in your own parallel universe man.
> 
> 
> 
> Koreans have always been copy cats and thats very well known and continue to be that way for the most part. Israel on the other hand, CREATES technology, whatever they get involved in, they are tops. Simple as that.



Oh really. Do you know how many patents Korea apply in WiPo every year and how many from Israel?

In electronic, Korea is already the world best. Im sure Israel has to rely on Korean OEM suppliers for a lot of their weapon electronic system. Do you think Israel can manufacture the screen or other components by themselves

It is hard fact, not from media and verifiable. I do not care the claims about "i do it first, they just copy from us" craps


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## hoangsa74

AViet said:


> Oh really. Do you know how many patents Korea apply in WiPo every year and how many from Israel?
> 
> In electronic, Korea is already the world best. Im sure Israel has to rely on Korean OEM suppliers for a lot of their weapon electronic system. Do you think Israel can manufacture the screen or other components by themselves
> 
> It is hard fact, not from media and verifiable. I do not care the claims about "i do it first, they just copy from us" craps


Wow. Korea makes the freaking screen. Guess what? Israeli design and fabricate the microprocessor that is the heart of all electronic stuff out there. Check your own personal computer, it is run on intel microprocessor that is designed and fabricated by israel. Guess what? Korea has not produced any aesa radar yet while israel has been producing aesa radar for years and even export them to your cong goons of vietnam.


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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> Oh really. Do you know how many patents Korea apply in WiPo every year and how many from Israel?
> 
> In electronic, Korea is already the world best. Im sure Israel has to rely on Korean OEM suppliers for a lot of their weapon electronic system. Do you think Israel can manufacture the screen or other components by themselves
> 
> It is hard fact, not from media and verifiable. I do not care the claims about "i do it first, they just copy from us" craps



Your problem is that you have a "reality distortion field", you believe what you want to believe and ignore what you don't want to believe. When it comes to military technology, South Korea is a dummy compared to Israel.


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## Viet

@AViet

It's worthless to praise China military superiory or from other nations if we don't cooperate with them or receive any piece of technology.

Even from Japan. Yes our friend Japanese still has a law in place since the Cold War, that forbids any military hardware delivery to Vietnam. There is no difference between China and Costa Rica armies, even the latter hasn't any army at all. Our cooperation with them is zero. Zero to China, zero to Costa Rica. That is what both countries have in common. No need to mention America. The US lifts sanctions last year, but any delivery needs approval from both the US government and the Congress. It is impossible to get any deal quickly done. US allies in the West and the East follow the US arms policy.

So understandable only few countries in the world deliver military hardware and software to Vietnam. One is Russia, follows by nobody, then comes Israel. Sure, Putin needs no US approval if selling arms to Vietnam. But Israel obviously needs no approval, either.

Israel is a country we can rely on. They are in many aspects very similar to Vietnam. Not only because the Israeli Armed Forces are a people's army, like of Vietnam.

Signing to establish a series of community centers across Vietnam modeled after Israeli counterpart.






http://vietnamnews.vn/society/373284/israel-to-help-vn-build-community-centers.html


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## Viet

Donald Trump removes Steve Bannon from NSC before her proposed legislation becomes law forcing him to do so.


http://orlando-politics.com/2017/04...n-ouster-from-nsc-huge-victory-for-democracy/
*Stephanie Murphy calls Steve Bannon ouster from NSC “Huge Victory for Democracy”*

APRIL 5, 2017 BY FRANK TORRES

Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy is praising a White House Decision to remove Donald Trump Chief Advisor Steve Bannon from the National Security Council. Murphy filed legislation to remove Bannon from the NSC citing an unprecedented conflict between political campaigning and national security.

“Today’s decision to remove Steve Bannon from the National Security Council is a huge victory for democracy and a strong step toward depoliticizing our national security,” said Murphy. “This is proof that democracy works and that the American people, when they make their voices heard, can affect change.”

The White House quietly removed Bannon from the NSC to put a more traditional framework in place that will grant National Security Advisor H.R McMaster more control over how the council will operate.

Murphy, a former Government National Security Specialist says she’ll continue to push her existing legislation to keep political advisors off of the board in the future.

“My bill is about fidelity to a deeply American principle—the principle that the service members in our all-volunteer military, the quiet professionals in our intelligence community, and the men and women who protect our homeland should never have their lives disrupted or placed at risk because of a national security policymaking process that is contaminated by partisan politics.” said Murphy in conclusion.






Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy


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## Viet

A symbol of Russia militarily power: typhoon class nuclear submarine. This week Russia deploys one of the typhoon's on patrol, with nuclear weapons onboard that can entirely destroy a continent. Also this week, a crimea government delegation is on a visit to Vietnam. Good to know: Vladimir Putin warns, Russia will defend the Crimea with all means. The man means serious.







http://e.vnexpress.net/news/busines...ietnam-to-boost-trade-investment-3566211.html


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## Viet

*China Tolerating Vietnam’s South China Sea Activities, For Now*

Publication: China Brief Volume: 17 Issue: 3
By: Derek Grossman
The Jamestown Foundation






China’s expanding military presence in the South China Sea has prompted Vietnam to enhance its ability to protect its own holdings in the region. In late November, for example, commercially available imagery revealed that Vietnam was dredging a new channel at *Ladd Reef* on the southwestern edge of the Spratly Islands, perhaps as a precursor to land reclamation or to improve access to other features (ChinaTimes, December 9, 2016). In the same month, Hanoi extended its sole runway and added new hangars on Spratly Island. Vietnam also reportedly fortified several of its holdings with what appear to be Israeli-built Extended Range Artillery (EXTRA) precision-guided rocket artillery launchers over the summer (Global Times, August 11, 2016).

Curiously, Chinese leaders have not punished Vietnam for any of these activities or even so much as complained about them. Instead, Beijing continues to maintain cordial and cooperative bilateral ties, with Chinese President Xi Jinping on January 12 hosting Vietnamese Secretary-General Nguyen Phu Trong in Beijing for bilateral talks. China has probably tolerated Vietnam’s South China Sea activities because it feels increasingly confident in its improving military position throughout the region.


*Indirect Condemnations*

Chinese leaders have issued only indirect condemnations of recent Vietnamese activities in the South China Sea. For example, Beijing’s foreign ministry officially responded to the reported deployment of EXTRA by stating that “China has indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands [the Chinese name for the Spratly Islands] and their surrounding waters.” The ministry further noted that “China has always firmly opposed the illegal occupation of parts of China’s Nansha Islands and reefs by certain countries and their illegal construction and military deployments on these islands and reefs” (_China Daily_, August 11, 2016). It is noteworthy that Beijing issued such measured and generic statements given the provocative nature of the PRC media report. Indeed, even the often-strident state-run media outlet _Global Times_ gave Vietnam the benefit of the doubt, stating that it hoped the report was “only speculation from Western media” and the two sides should practice restraint to avoid a crisis (_Global Times_, August 11, 2016).

China’s reaction to other Vietnamese actions has been similarly circumspect. The foreign ministry, for instance, responded to reports that Vietnam had expanded its runway by urging the “relevant country”—Vietnam was not specifically named—to “truly respect China’s sovereignty and legitimate rights and interests” and to “immediately stop its illegal occupation and construction and withdraw their personnel and facilities” (FMPRC, November 18, 2016). Beijing’s defense ministry also declined to identify Vietnam regarding the runway issue (_China Military Online_, November 30th, 2016). Both ministries instead left it up to _Xinhua _to later identify Vietnam as the country in question (_Xinhua_, November 18th, 2016). Separately, Hanoi’s dredging activities at Ladd Reef prompted the foreign ministry to make similarly indirect statements (FMPRC, December 15, 2016; FMPRC, December 9, 2016).


*Bilateral Relations Remain Positive*

Despite their mutual suspicion, Chinese and Vietnamese leaders have remained remarkably cordial and cooperative in multiple dimensions of the bilateral relationship. In late December, for example, Vietnam hosted a two-day conference on enhancing economic cooperation with China (_Xinhua_, December 28, 2016). On defense, both sides routinely hail their cooperation. In February 2009, Vietnam and China finalized the demarcation of their border. Since then, Hanoi and Beijing have engaged in a series of confidence-building measures that have included defense minister discussions and joint exercises along the border, the most recent of which was a “joint anti-terror” border exercise in July 2016 (_VietnamNet Bridge_, November 2, 2016; _The Diplomat_, July 30, 2016; Xinhua, August 30, 2016).

Even in the most contentious of domains, the maritime domain, China and Vietnam tend to look past their differences. In mid-January, after meeting with counterparts in Beijing, Vietnamese Secretary-General Nguyen issued a joint “communiqué” stating that the two sides planned to “manage well their maritime difference, avoid actions that complicate the situation and escalate tensions, and safeguard the peace and stability of the South China Sea.” 

To be sure, maritime differences are assiduously avoided in favor of cooperation. In November, for instance, the Chinese and Vietnamese coast guards took part in a joint patrol to monitor fishing areas of the Gulf of Tonkin (_People’s Army Newspaper_ [Vietnam]_,_ November 9, 2016). Moreover, in a symbolic step, the Chinese navy in October made a first-ever port call to the international port within Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Bay (_The Diplomat_, October 23, 2016). Indeed, Xi Jinping in November called for China and Vietnam to work together to maintain stability in the South China Sea—well after reports that Hanoi had deployed EXTRA on disputed features (Xinhua, November 20, 2016).


*Confidence Born of Military Superiority*

Beijing probably keeps bilateral relations cordial and productive in spite of Vietnamese actions because it maintains overwhelming military superiority in the region. China’s “Southern Theater Command” fields diverse capabilities at multiple locations to keep the balance of power well in Beijing’s favor. These include guided missile destroyers, nuclear-missile equipped submarine forces, long-range supply vessels, coast guard and other maritime enforcement ships, marine forces with dedicated amphibious capabilities, multiple launch brigades for land-based missiles, and air assets ranging from bombers to multi-role fighter aircraft (_China Brief_, July 22, 2016).

Beijing’s considerable arsenal has enhanced its confidence to the point that China has decided only to quietly bolster its military defenses on disputed features. In November, for example, the Center for Strategic and International Studies’ Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative assessed that China over the summer had deployed close-in weapon systems (CIWS) and anti-aircraft artillery on all of its holdings in the Spratly Islands. According to expert analysis, CIWS could be effective against sea-skimming cruise missiles, while anti-aircraft artillery could provide point defense for airfields and radar installations (AMTI, December 14, 2016).

Vietnam has been actively acquiring cruise missiles that can be launched from a range of surface ships, such as _Gepard_-class frigates or _Molniya_-class corvettes, and from one of its six acquired _Kilo_-class submarines. In addition, Vietnam’s air force continues to modernize its fixed-wing aircraft, which now features 36 Sukhoi Su-30s, in the hopes of providing Hanoi with maritime strike capabilities throughout the region.

China has deployed more high-profile defenses on Woody Island, the main island in the disputed Paracel Island chain within closer proximity to Vietnam. Beijing in mid-February 2016 deployed two batteries of eight Hongqi-9 (HQ-9) surface-to-air missile (SAM) launchers to Woody Island that enabled highly capable targeting of aircraft and missiles out to 120 nautical miles (_Guancha_, February 17, 2016). The deployment of this system—derived from the Russian-built S-300—is a permanent fixture and not tied to exercises like the previous two deployments (_China Brief_, March 28, 2016). Beijing may also seek to use recently constructed facilities throughout the Spratlys to house additional SAMs, though this remains unclear for the moment.

Separately, in October, Beijing opened its first desalination plant in the South China Sea on Woody Island, providing an important source of fresh water to grow and sustain the present population there of approximately 1,500 residents—most of whom are Chinese military personnel. In late December, Beijing initiated regular charter flights between Woody Island and Hainan to “improve the work and living conditions of the city’s public servants and stationed soldiers” (_Xinhua_, December 22, 2016). With the desalination plant in place, Beijing will also have more fresh water available to help reduce the negative effects of operating weaponry in a high salt environment (_The Diplomat_, October 4, 2016).

China might eventually decide to permanently station its fighter aircraft like the J-11B—which rotated through the island in 2015— on Woody Island, though sufficient fuel storage and hangar space would still be required (_Defense News_, November 8, 2015).


*Limits to Chinese Tolerance?*

Judging from China’s response thus far, it is fair to say that Beijing has chosen to tolerate recent Vietnamese construction activities in the South China Sea. However, China has a range of options to express its displeasure with Hanoi, such as emplacing a new structure in disputed waters, conducting military exercises, or stepping up sovereignty patrols in the region.

Any of these responses is possible, especially as tensions predictably rise in the South China Sea during the spring. In May 2014, for example, Beijing decided to emplace the _Haiyang Shiyou _oil rig in disputed waters, resulting in a months-long standoff between Chinese and Vietnamese coast guards until Beijing finally decided to remove the rig. It is unclear what motivated China to move the rig into the area in the first place, but the tactic was clearly designed to put pressure on Vietnam’s sovereignty claims.

Chinese leaders might change their calculus if they believe Vietnam is trying to enlist the support of the U.S. or other partners to settle bilateral disputes. Hanoi’s burgeoning security relationships with Japan, India, and the U.S. will be particularly sensitive to China. Beijing might also decide to more assertively and overtly challenge Vietnam if it assesses that Hanoi has acquired capabilities that can more effectively challenge China’s military assets in the region. For example, for years Vietnam has been trying to procure from India the Brahmos sea-skimming supersonic anti-ship cruise missile, which could significantly endanger Chinese surface combatants. Recent reports also indicate that New Delhi might sell Hanoi the medium-range Akash SAM that might threaten China’s fighter aircraft operations if acquired (_Asia Times_, January 11).

Finally, seasonal frictions over access to fishing and natural resources in the South China Sea could prompt increasingly aggressive Chinese tactics against Vietnamese vessels that might *trigger an overtly military response*. This week Vietnam slammed the imposition of a Chinese fishing ban from May to August in waters near the Paracel Islands—a tactic Beijing has employed annually since 1999. In this regard, the next few months should be instructive as to the future trajectory of the relationship.


_Derek Grossman is a senior defense analyst at the nonprofit, nonpartisan RAND Corporation. He formerly served at the Defense Intelligence Agency as the daily intelligence briefer to the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Asian and Pacific Security Affairs at the Pentagon. The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Department of Defense, or the U.S. government. _


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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> Your problem is that you have a "reality distortion field", you believe *what you want to believe and ignore what you don't want to believe*. When it comes to military technology, South Korea is a dummy compared to Israel.



The same can be said about you, or virtually everyone on this forum. I never said military tech of South Korea is better than Israel. I am talking about technology in general.

Too much have been talked about Israel "high-tech", but most of world people have never seen anything high-tech from Israel. Is it not correct?

You say that Israel is high-tech just because Western media say so. is it not correct?.

Sure Israel is capable in some nich technologies. I do not say it is at same level like Iran or India. Much higher than that, but not at level of Korea.

Top 20 PCT patents 2015, 6 from Japan, 4 from China, 4 from US, 2 from Korea, 2 from Germany. *None* from Israel. (Huawei No.1; Qualcomm No.2; ZTE No.3; Samsung No.4 and LG No.7)
PCT international 2015 (by origin): *Korea 14,564; Israel: 1,685. *For comparison, the US: 57,000; Japan: 43,000; China: 29,000; Germany: 18,000 (Germany alone is half of all European countries combined).

Last year, on a Viettel magazine, there was a story about how Viettel was going to buy a warning system from Israel. At first, they asked for $100M. Too expensive, then Viettel decided to do R&D by themselves. Then they asked for $50M, and when they came to Vietttel office, seeing what Viettel could do, they asked for $20M. But at that time, it was too late for them, as Viettel had mastered the tech and decided NOT to buy.

The merit of the story that if Israel can do, Vietnam can.

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## xiao qi

> @AViet Last year, on a Viettel magazine, there was a story about how Viettel was going to buy a warning system from Israel. At first, they asked for $100M. Too expensive, then Viettel decided to do R&D by themselves. Then they asked for $50M, and when they came to Vietttel office, seeing what Viettel could do, they asked for $20M. But at that time, it was too late for them, as Viettel had mastered the tech and decided NOT to buy.



Can you give the link of the story like you said?


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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Can you give the link of the story like you said?



He is actually mixing up stories, its not a warning system as he said, but portable communication equipment, I used to read that story years ago.



AViet said:


> The same can be said about you, or virtually everyone on this forum. I never said military tech of South Korea is better than Israel. I am talking about technology in general.
> 
> Too much have been talked about Israel "high-tech", but most of world people have never seen anything high-tech from Israel. Is it not correct?
> 
> You say that Israel is high-tech just because Western media say so. is it not correct?.
> 
> Sure Israel is capable in some nich technologies. I do not say it is at same level like Iran or India. Much higher than that, but not at level of Korea.
> 
> Top 20 PCT patents 2015, 6 from Japan, 4 from China, 4 from US, 2 from Korea, 2 from Germany. *None* from Israel. (Huawei No.1; Qualcomm No.2; ZTE No.3; Samsung No.4 and LG No.7)
> PCT international 2015 (by origin): *Korea 14,564; Israel: 1,685. *For comparison, the US: 57,000; Japan: 43,000; China: 29,000; Germany: 18,000 (Germany alone is half of all European countries combined).
> 
> Last year, on a Viettel magazine, there was a story about how Viettel was going to buy a warning system from Israel. At first, they asked for $100M. Too expensive, then Viettel decided to do R&D by themselves. Then they asked for $50M, and when they came to Vietttel office, seeing what Viettel could do, they asked for $20M. But at that time, it was too late for them, as Viettel had mastered the tech and decided NOT to buy.
> 
> The merit of the story that if Israel can do, Vietnam can.



I'm not talking about consumer tech, I'm talking about military tech which is how this subject started.

Feel free to post reliable links about the superiority of South Korea military tech, particularly in the areas of nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, UAV's, Tanks (Merkava), air defense systems, electronic warfare equipment, radars, missile tech (such as Barack 8, Iron Dome, David's sling, Arrow 3, Dalila, Python, Derby, Spyder anti tank missiles, etc), Trophy APS systems for tanks, AWACs planes, etc which are all areas where Israel excels.

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## hoangsa74

Viet said:


> @AViet
> 
> The US lifts sanctions last year, but any delivery needs approval from both the US government and the Congress. It is impossible to get any deal quickly done. US allies in the West and the East follow the US arms policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://vietnamnews.vn/society/373284/israel-to-help-vn-build-community-centers.html


30 day is needed if the prez decides to have a deal.

http://www.dsca.mil/resources/arms-sales-congressional-review-process


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## AViet

xiao qi said:


> Can you give the link of the story like you said?


Just google: "công nghệ: người Israel bất ngờ với các kỹ sư Việt Nam".

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## Nike

South Korean military industries focusing much on platform centric and engineering feats, especially at Naval and land based platform and they tend not to over engineering their products as they were trying to play number too to match North Korean massive military hardware. Starting from K9 SPH Thunder, K2 Black Panther MBT, Samsung tecwin KIFV, K21 IFV, Doosan DST Black Fox 8X8 APC, KDX programme in which resulting series of highly capable frigates and destroyer. South Korean even capable to designing and constructing their own submarine, LHD, helicopter and other platform. South Korean too have their own indigenous SAM System starting from Chiron Manpads to KM SAM and Cheolmae CH4 anti ballistic missiles system though they are borrowing Russian Almaz Antey tech. South Korean even capable to playing catch up in artillery, ballistic missiles and radar system. 

With broad range of products and backing up with several world renown companies such as Samsung, Hyundai, Doosan, Hanhwa, LIG1 and other i would dare to say South Korean military industries today is much stronger, complex, highly innovative and technological advanced in some sector compared to Israel.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> *Tanks (Merkava), air defense systems, electronic warfare equipment, radars, missile tech (such as Barack 8, Iron Dome, David's sling, Arrow 3, Dalila, Python, Derby, Spyder anti tank missiles, etc), Trophy APS systems for tanks, AWACs planes*, etc which are all areas where Israel excels.



It is highly likely that all are just assemble work. As Israel cannot manufacture aircraft, where AWACs planes platform come from? Merkava tank: where diesel engine come from, the armor come from? (much like Singaporean Bronco). About the missile, I am not sure, but Taiwan developed their own missiles since 1970s (check the armament of IDF fighter aircraft, which they also manufactured by themselves)

Again, my logic is that with a tiny workforce, most of them are not Askenazi Jews and a limited manufacturing facilities, Israel cannot actually manufacture anything significant by themselves. Their strength is in R&D and design, then procure the parts/components from the US, Europe, Japan, China, Korea, assemble and give them Jewish names.

These are still good jobs done by Israel and I respect them for that. But not like Korea or Taiwan. They actually manufacture things.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> South Korean military industries focusing much on platform centric and engineering feats, especially at Naval and land based platform and they tend not to over engineering their products as they were trying to play number too to match North Korean massive military hardware. Starting from K9 SPH Thunder, K2 Black Panther MBT, Samsung tecwin KIFV, K21 IFV, Doosan DST Black Fox 8X8 APC, KDX programme in which resulting series of highly capable frigates and destroyer. South Korean even capable to designing and constructing their own submarine, LHD, helicopter and other platform. South Korean too have their own indigenous SAM System starting from Chiron Manpads to KM SAM and Cheolmae CH4 anti ballistic missiles system though they are borrowing Russian Almaz Antey tech. South Korean even capable to playing catch up in artillery, ballistic missiles and radar system.
> 
> With broad range of products and backing up with several world renown companies such as Samsung, Hyundai, Doosan, Hanhwa, LIG1 and other i would dare to say South Korean military industries today is much stronger, complex, highly innovative and technological advanced in some sector compared to Israel.


No doubt, the south korean industrial military complex is very impressive, in many aspects even superior to that of Japan. In general the people of Asia are very smart. They are not good inventors but good at copying things from the West and make them better.

Nevertheless without massive US military aid and technology transfer neither the Koreans nor the Japanese won't come too far. Same can be said for Israel. The US provides en masse money, technology and everything to the Israeli army, making it to one of the most powerful armies of the world.

I am jealous of them.

People should not forget Israel has a tinny landmass with a tinny population but plays a role like a superpower. Not good for your country indonesia. You dump Israel for the sake of Palestine cause, sacrificing your own interest.



AViet said:


> Just google: "công nghệ: người Israel bất ngờ với các kỹ sư Việt Nam".


Ok that is VietTel central aerial surveillance system VQ2. I believe the company develops both variants civil and military radar surveillance complex.


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## Viet

*Russia Far East*

Did Putin's special envoy to Russia Far East _Yuri Trutnev _visit to Vietnam recently, inviting Vietnamese companies to invest in the region, as counterbalance to overwhelming Chinese dominance?

Seems his visit begins to pay off. Vietnamese dairy group TH True Milk says will invest $1.7 billion in establishing a dairy operation in Russia Far East. Not a huge sum if comparing to the Chinese, but it is a good start.

http://www.foodbev.com/news/vietnamese-dairy-th-true-milk-to-invest-further-1-7bn-in-russia/

Thai Huong, chairwoman of TH group


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## Nike

Viet said:


> No doubt, the south korean industrial military complex is very impressive, in many aspects even superior to that of Japan. In general the people of Asia are very smart. They are not good inventors but good at copying things from the West and make them better.
> 
> Nevertheless without massive US military aid and technology transfer neither the Koreans nor the Japanese won't come too far. Same can be said for Israel. The US provides en masse money, technology and everything to the Israeli army, making it to one of the most powerful armies of the world.
> 
> I am jealous of them.
> 
> People should not forget Israel has a tinny landmass with a tinny population but plays a role like a superpower. Not good for your country indonesia. You dump Israel for the sake of Palestine cause, sacrificing your own interest.
> 
> 
> Ok that is VietTel central aerial surveillance system VQ2. I believe the company develops both variants civil and military radar surveillance complex.
> 
> View attachment 389643
> 
> View attachment 389644
> 
> 
> View attachment 389654



Indonesia had close but unrecognized relationship with Israel. As example Indonesian made MPA Aircraft got Israeli Elta tech, so with our comm system, patrol boats, UAV, small arms, mortar and so on. In economic sphere, several Indonesian tycoon got excellent business partnership with their Israeli counterpart. 

As long as Indonesia is close with USA we can get close with Israel by other means.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> South Korean military industries focusing much on platform centric and engineering feats, especially at Naval and land based platform and they tend not to over engineering their products as they were trying to play number too to match North Korean massive military hardware. Starting from K9 SPH Thunder, K2 Black Panther MBT, Samsung tecwin KIFV, K21 IFV, Doosan DST Black Fox 8X8 APC, KDX programme in which resulting series of highly capable frigates and destroyer. South Korean even capable to designing and constructing their own submarine, LHD, helicopter and other platform. South Korean too have their own indigenous SAM System starting from Chiron Manpads to KM SAM and Cheolmae CH4 anti ballistic missiles system though they are borrowing Russian Almaz Antey tech. South Korean even capable to playing catch up in artillery, ballistic missiles and radar system.
> 
> With broad range of products and backing up with several world renown companies such as Samsung, Hyundai, Doosan, Hanhwa, LIG1 and other i would dare to say South Korean military industries today is much stronger, complex, highly innovative and technological advanced in some sector compared to Israel.



The only sector where South Korea is superior to Israel is shipbuilding, they are behind in *ALL* other sectors and no, South Korea is not capable of designing and constructing their own submarine all by themselves, they are doing their very first sub project right now but they rely on Germany for the heavy tech. The South Korean destroyer is a fully licensed AEGIS project. They still have way, way to go.

The Black Panther MBT, first South Korean tank, started production in 2013, the Israelis have been doing tanks for decades and lets not even talk about APS systems where the Israelis are the world leaders. The Merkava is considered one of the best tanks and is combat proven.

Ballistic missiles, South Korea has one with a 300 km range, another one with a 500 km range and are now testing one with a 800 km range. The Israelis have the whole spread including ICBMs, Arrow 2 and 3 (mid course interceptors, extremely high tech rocket technology), etc, they are way, way ahead.

Lets not even talk about air defense, South Korea relies on foreign assistance and is also considering to buy Iron Dome. The Israelis have the whole spread. Barak 8 is probably the best air defense missile in its range and by the way, Israel makes everything, active seeker, propulsion, etc. Arrow 2 and 3 again. Iron Dome, an unique system whose type is only made by Israel.

There is no contest when it comes to missiles, Israel makes lots of different missiles of all types.
Air to air missiles= Python and Derby, South Korea only uses US missiles
Anti tank missiles: Spyke, one of the very best anti tank missiles in the world (bought by India), Lahat, Nimrod, MAPATS.

Combat aircraft: Israel made an advance combat aircraft all by themselves, the Lavi (equivalent to the F-16) and before that one, the Kfir. The Lavi was already made many years ago. The Israelis were forced to give up the Lavi by USA since the Americans were worried that the Lavi was going to take a lot of export orders from the F-16. USA bankrolls much of the Israeli defense budget so Israel had to cave in. The Israelis do full advance aircraft upgrades using their own technology and actually use a lot of their own avionics in their F-16s and F-15s. They are leaders in aircraft electronic warfare. They've been making advance AESA radars for fighter jets for quite a few years now (exporting to India now). There is no such thing as South Korean AESA radars. South Korea wants to upgrade their F-16s but it will be the full American upgrade. What aircraft has South Korea developed? The T-50, a crapy glorified trainer and still, they needed American assistance. Their current project relies on American tech transfer for the crucial tech and they are very worried that USA will not agree to transfer the tech.

There is not such a thing as a South Korean helicopter, only a development project which is a very different thing. Lets give them credit when they actually do one.

UAVs, South Korea is still developing their first UAV, the Israelis created the whole concept and are one of the world leaders in that category and are the number 1 worldwide exporter.

AWACS aircraft which is a very advance tech, South Korea is not developing anything, they bought Boeing. Israel on the other hand is one of the leaders in the field, they use foreign aircraft, the Falcon and ALL the AWACS tech is 100% Israeli and very advanced. The C-295 AWACS is also using a full Israeli AWACS system.

Satellites and Space program: Israel have very advanced military satellites and have been launching them since *1988*. The South Korean space program depends on Russian assistance and is still struggling. They finally achieved their first rocket into Earth orbit only in *2013* (Naro 1 rocket) and placed a satellite into orbit. This is all way, way behind Israel.

I'm giving specific facts here, not general statements and the facts show that Israel is ahead in all sectors other than shipbuilding and usually way ahead. Feel free to show me otherwise.

There is no doubt that South Korea is progressing a lot and is developing a nice level of military tech, but they are not up there yet, they still have way to go, the Israelis are up there and have been there for a long time.



Viet said:


> No doubt, the south korean industrial military complex is very impressive, *in many aspects even superior to that of Japan*.



Superior to Japan in many aspects? Where did you get that bro? Japan is extremely advanced in defense tech, way superior to South Korea in all sectors.


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## hoangsa74

Carlosa said:


> The only sector where South Korea is superior to Israel is shipbuilding, they are behind in *ALL* other sectors and no, South Korea is not capable of designing and constructing their own submarine all by themselves, they are doing their very first sub project right now but they rely on Germany for the heavy tech. The South Korean destroyer is a fully licensed AEGIS project. They still have way, way to go.
> 
> The Black Panther MBT, first South Korean tank, started production in 2013, the Israelis have been doing tanks for decades and lets not even talk about APS systems where the Israelis are the world leaders. The Merkava is considered one of the best tanks and is combat proven.
> 
> Ballistic missiles, South Korea has one with a 300 km range, another one with a 500 km range and are now testing one with a 800 km range. The Israelis have the whole spread including ICBMs, Arrow 2 and 3 (mid course interceptors, extremely high tech rocket technology), etc, they are way, way ahead.
> 
> Lets not even talk about air defense, South Korea relies on foreign assistance and is also considering to buy Iron Dome. The Israelis have the whole spread. Barak 8 is probably the best air defense missile in its range and by the way, Israel makes everything, active seeker, propulsion, etc. Arrow 2 and 3 again. Iron Dome, an unique system whose type is only made by Israel.
> 
> There is no contest when it comes to missiles, Israel makes lots of different missiles of all types.
> Air to air missiles= Python and Derby, South Korea only uses US missiles
> Anti tank missiles: Spyke, one of the very best anti tank missiles in the world (bought by India), Lahat, Nimrod, MAPATS.
> 
> Combat aircraft: Israel made an advance combat aircraft all by themselves, the Lavi (equivalent to the F-16) and before that one, the Kfir. The Lavi was already made many years ago. The Israelis were forced to give up the Lavi by USA since the Americans were worried that the Lavi was going to take a lot of export orders from the F-16. USA bankrolls much of the Israeli defense budget so Israel had to cave in. The Israelis do full advance aircraft upgrades using their own technology and actually use a lot of their own avionics in their F-16s and F-15s. They are leaders in aircraft electronic warfare. They've been making advance AESA radars for fighter jets for quite a few years now (exporting to India now). There is no such thing as South Korean AESA radars. South Korea wants to upgrade their F-16s but it will be the full American upgrade. What aircraft has South Korea developed? The T-50, a crapy glorified trainer and still, they needed American assistance. Their current project relies on American tech transfer for the crucial tech and they are very worried that USA will not agree to transfer the tech.
> 
> There is not such a thing as a South Korean helicopter, only a development project which is a very different thing. Lets give them credit when they actually do one.
> 
> UAVs, South Korea is still developing their first UAV, the Israelis created the whole concept and are one of the world leaders in that category and are the number 1 worldwide exporter.
> 
> AWACS aircraft which is a very advance tech, South Korea is not developing anything, they bought Boing. Israel on the other hand is one of the leaders in the field, they use foreign aircraft, the Falcon and ALL the AWACS tech is 100% Israeli and very advanced. The C-295 AWACS is also using a full Israeli AWACS system.
> 
> Satellites and Space program: Israel have very advanced military satellites and have been launching them since *1988*. The South Korean space program depends on Russian assistance and is still struggling. They finally achieved their first rocket into Earth orbit only in *2013* (Naro 1 rocket) and placed a satellite into orbit. This is all way, way behind Israel.
> 
> I'm giving specific facts here, not general statements and the facts show that Israel is ahead in all sectors other than shipbuilding and usually way ahead. Feel free to show me otherwise.
> 
> There is no doubt that South Korea is progressing a lot and is developing a nice level of military tech, but they are not up there yet, they still have way to go, the Israelis are up there and have been there for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> Superior to Japan in many aspects? Where did you get that bro? Japan is extremely advanced in defense tech, way superior to South Korea in all sectors.


stop wasting your energy, no muslim and Chinese want to hear how great Israel is.


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## Carlosa

hoangsa74 said:


> stop wasting your energy, no muslim and Chinese want to hear how great Israel is.



Indeed a waste of time and energy.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The only sector where South Korea is superior to Israel is shipbuilding, they are behind in *ALL* other sectors and no, South Korea is not capable of designing and constructing their own submarine all by themselves, they are doing their very first sub project right now but they rely on Germany for the heavy tech. The South Korean destroyer is a fully licensed AEGIS project. They still have way, way to go.
> 
> The Black Panther MBT, first South Korean tank, started production in 2013, the Israelis have been doing tanks for decades and lets not even talk about APS systems where the Israelis are the world leaders. The Merkava is considered one of the best tanks and is combat proven.
> 
> Ballistic missiles, South Korea has one with a 300 km range, another one with a 500 km range and are now testing one with a 800 km range. The Israelis have the whole spread including ICBMs, Arrow 2 and 3 (mid course interceptors, extremely high tech rocket technology), etc, they are way, way ahead.
> 
> Lets not even talk about air defense, South Korea relies on foreign assistance and is also considering to buy Iron Dome. The Israelis have the whole spread. Barak 8 is probably the best air defense missile in its range and by the way, Israel makes everything, active seeker, propulsion, etc. Arrow 2 and 3 again. Iron Dome, an unique system whose type is only made by Israel.
> 
> There is no contest when it comes to missiles, Israel makes lots of different missiles of all types.
> Air to air missiles= Python and Derby, South Korea only uses US missiles
> Anti tank missiles: Spyke, one of the very best anti tank missiles in the world (bought by India), Lahat, Nimrod, MAPATS.
> 
> Combat aircraft: Israel made an advance combat aircraft all by themselves, the Lavi (equivalent to the F-16) and before that one, the Kfir. The Lavi was already made many years ago. The Israelis were forced to give up the Lavi by USA since the Americans were worried that the Lavi was going to take a lot of export orders from the F-16. USA bankrolls much of the Israeli defense budget so Israel had to cave in. The Israelis do full advance aircraft upgrades using their own technology and actually use a lot of their own avionics in their F-16s and F-15s. They are leaders in aircraft electronic warfare. They've been making advance AESA radars for fighter jets for quite a few years now (exporting to India now). There is no such thing as South Korean AESA radars. South Korea wants to upgrade their F-16s but it will be the full American upgrade. What aircraft has South Korea developed? The T-50, a crapy glorified trainer and still, they needed American assistance. Their current project relies on American tech transfer for the crucial tech and they are very worried that USA will not agree to transfer the tech.
> 
> There is not such a thing as a South Korean helicopter, only a development project which is a very different thing. Lets give them credit when they actually do one.
> 
> UAVs, South Korea is still developing their first UAV, the Israelis created the whole concept and are one of the world leaders in that category and are the number 1 worldwide exporter.
> 
> AWACS aircraft which is a very advance tech, South Korea is not developing anything, they bought Boing. Israel on the other hand is one of the leaders in the field, they use foreign aircraft, the Falcon and ALL the AWACS tech is 100% Israeli and very advanced. The C-295 AWACS is also using a full Israeli AWACS system.
> 
> Satellites and Space program: Israel have very advanced military satellites and have been launching them since *1988*. The South Korean space program depends on Russian assistance and is still struggling. They finally achieved their first rocket into Earth orbit only in *2013* (Naro 1 rocket) and placed a satellite into orbit. This is all way, way behind Israel.
> 
> I'm giving specific facts here, not general statements and the facts show that Israel is ahead in all sectors other than shipbuilding and usually way ahead. Feel free to show me otherwise.
> 
> There is no doubt that South Korea is progressing a lot and is developing a nice level of military tech, but they are not up there yet, they still have way to go, the Israelis are up there and have been there for a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> Superior to Japan in many aspects? Where did you get that bro? Japan is extremely advanced in defense tech, way superior to South Korea in all sectors.


it is my assumption. I may be wrong. Take destroyer, the backbone of Japanese navy. The Japanese warships are more numerous but they are designed to defend the homeland. The destroyers possesses limited offensive capabilities, in contrast the Korean destroyers are on full mode configuration including land attack missiles.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> it is my assumption. I may be wrong. Take destroyer, the backbone of Japanese navy. The Japanese warships are more numerous but they are designed to defend the homeland. The destroyers possesses limited offensive capabilities, in contrast the Korean destroyers are on full mode configuration including land attack missiles.



Military tech level is one thing and how its applied is another thing. The Japanese have superior tech across all the sectors of defense tech, but they constrained themselves to defensive systems because of political reasons, but thats changing now, they just announced that they are going to developed offensive weapons to target North Korea and they'll be able to do it fast and easy because they have the tech already.

If we want to wonder about their capabilities we only need to think about a few things such as the fact that they are codeveloping the SM-6 missile together with US (AEGIS missile), stealth fighter jet already flying that is all 100% Japanese tech including the engines (only USA and Russia are ahead), AESA radars for their F-16s, Mach 5 anti ship missiles, been making top tanks for decades, Soryu subs (considered by many to be the best diesel sub today), very sophisticated military satellites, etc, etc, unlike South Korea where they usually rely on tech transfer, the Japanese have their own tech, big difference.

Another example, they don't have nuclear weapons because of political reasons but its well known that they can develop a nuclear arsenal in a matter of months if they want to *because they already have the tech*.

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## Carlosa

*Delilah could be Equipped for Vietnamese Su-30*

03 April 2017

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-drive-delilah-could-be-equipped-for.html




Delilah Air-Launched advanced standoff missile (all photos/images : IMI)

This information comes from The Drive comes in an article that Vietnam is on negotiating with Israel on providing Delilah multitasking missile to equip the Su-30 fighter.

Based on data from Israeli manufacturer IMI, the Delilah missile is designed with a GPS navigation system, along with an automatic steering for navigation, which can then be converted to a pink image. foreign or CCD image in the late stages.






The Delilah missile performs these features through data links that allow people to control missiles targeting the target. This means that people controlled weapons systems in an aircraft 150 miles away can still navigate rocket flexible, making accurate Delilah attack target.

With this feature, the Delilah missile can alter an attack target even if it is launched by a rider who can let the missile fly over the vent or window of the building instead of attacking from the missile. Forward or a predetermined direction.






It is the world's first multitasking missile, so in addition to its fixed target attack, Delilah can also accurately strike targets in motion. Therefore, Israel also uses this type of missile on anti-ship missions.

According to The Drive, Delilah's biggest difference is that it can reduce the engine speed to save fuel and fly around the target area to pinpoint accuracy. Also, Delilah has self destruction if the controller does not find the target.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I am under impression of Japanese decline and the rise of South Korea by a recent purchase of mine, in an item that has nothing to do with military tech: rice cooker.
> 
> I went to a Vietnamese supermarket nearby to look for a nice rice cooking machine. To my surprise I found neither Vietnamese nor Japanese brand. No Japanese incredible. There are Chinese and Korean rice cookers available. They look similar, have identical functionality. Interestingly the Korean cooker costs 4 times more than Chinese competitor. I unboxed them curiously to find out what makes Korean brand much more expensive. Bingo. The Chinese rice cooker is thin, not made for tough time, while the Korean brother is massive, designed to withstand even a nuclear blast
> 
> I bought the Korean. In the unlikely event of nuclear war my rice cooker will survive, when Chinese will melt to liquid
> 
> Ok putting joke aside, you are right. Japan is a country nobody should not underestimate. the military buildup of Japan is a good thing, keeping the Chinese in check. It is interesting the Chinese copy the idea of "the sea is mine" from a British theorist, John Selden, who created _Mare Clausum_, or “closed seas". This theory was exercised and enforced by the British empire. Now the Chinese follow it. How ironic.
> 
> Might is right.
> 
> The Chinese are not different to other hooligans with their aggression.



Well, the simple truth is that Japan's economy has been stagnated for many years now and South Korea is the new upstart. Sony has a hard time competing with Samsung and LG. Samsung is the new Sony. In consumer goods South Korea is already up there, but it will take a while until they can reach that level in the defense sector.

On a positive note, the current Japanese administration is determined to break the old taboos in the defense sector such as the 1% of GDP spending and offensive weapons, maybe even nuclear weapons, Trump is definitely making that whole process easier.

On a consumer note, I have a South Korean blender, Buono brand, its a hell of a machine, both in performance and durability, has a powerful motor, that thing has been built to last for many years, it grinds the ice to a powder form, I bought in Thailand a few years ago. Every time friends come to the house and we make Vietnamese style smoothies with it, everybody goes "wow" great machine, it was expensive, but worth every penny. I guess its a sign of where South Korea is at this time.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, the simple truth is that Japan's economy has been stagnated for many years now and South Korea is the new upstart. Sony has a hard time competing with Samsung and LG. Samsung is the new Sony. In consumer goods South Korea is already up there, but it will take a while until they can reach that level in the defense sector.
> 
> On a positive note, the current Japanese administration is determined to break the old taboos in the defense sector such as the 1% of GDP spending and offensive weapons, maybe even nuclear weapons, Trump is definitely making that whole process easier.
> 
> On a consumer note, I have a South Korean blender, Buono brand, its a hell of a machine, both in performance and durability, has a powerful motor, that thing has been built to last for many years, it grinds the ice to a powder form, I bought in Thailand a few years ago. Every time friends come to the house and we make Vietnamese style smoothies with it, everybody goes "wow" great machine, it was expensive, but worth every penny. I guess its a sign of where South Korea is at this time.


Japan's biggest enemy is demography: rapidly declining and fast aging population. I once here promoted the idea of state union between Japan and Vietnam, maybe we will see it becoming reality in this century.

Yes Japan should lift all restrictions and do more for balance of power.

The Koreans are in many aspects like a man, who wanders between genius and madness.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Japan's biggest enemy is demography: rapidly declining and fast aging population. I once here promoted the idea of state union between Japan and Vietnam, maybe we will see it becoming reality in this century.
> 
> Yes Japan should lift all restrictions and do more for balance of power.
> 
> The Koreans are in many aspects like a man, who wanders between genius and madness.



Yeah, a significant percentage of the Japanese male population are afraid or too shy to date a woman, they prefer to have a manga girlfriend. Some Japanese women are now looking for South Korean boyfriends.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yeah, a significant percentage of the Japanese male population are afraid or too shy to date a woman, they prefer to have a manga girlfriend. Some Japanese women are now looking for South Korean boyfriends.


Ha ha ha manga ...not my taste.

One note on Korean men: the ancestors from the Koreans are said coming from the North as far as Finnland, from the South as far as Vietnam. Knowing that fact helps one understand the madness of the Kim dynasty.


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## Viet

*The last Emperor of Vietnam*

this Rolex 6062 once belonged to the last Emperor of Vietnam: Bao Dai, now on auction in Switzerland, which will take place on May 13 and 14 in Geneva under the hammer at Phillips. Maybe a patriot from Vietnam with little money could buy this historic piece and lend to a museum for everyone to see. a pre-sale estimate of more than $1.5 million. expected to be sold at $2.5 million. the most expensive Rolex ever in history.








http://watchesbysjx.com/2017/03/han...nce-owned-by-the-last-emperor-of-vietnam.html


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## AViet

Viet said:


> Ok putting joke aside, you are right. Japan is a country nobody should not underestimate. the military buildup of Japan is a good thing, keeping the Chinese in check. *It is interesting the Chinese copy the idea of "the sea is mine*" from a British theorist, John Selden, who created _Mare Clausum_, or “closed seas". This theory was exercised and enforced by the British empire. Now the Chinese follow it. How ironic.



If this is called "copy" then the West copied almost all structure of a modern societies from China and East Asia. A government ruled by Prime Minister, divided into ministry, a meritocracy system which select people based on their talent, not their ancestor, ... and thousands others. European Union is merely a copy of Spring-Autumn period 2000+ years ago.

Like India's "super powah" obsession, the West love to claim they are "the first" in everything and others copies them, denying the facts that before 1500, they were primitive and had to copy everything from China (especially after Mongolian invasion, which brought a lot of China civilization elements to the West, hence the Renaissance) and Middle East countries. Even from 1945 until now, much of advancement in technological/management arenas are rooted and flourished in Japan, then propagating to the Western countries, but the West shamelessly claims that Japanese learnt from them. East Asian people, on the other hand, does not have this obsession, and in many cases, just neglects and let the West says what they want.

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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> If this is called "copy" then the West copied almost all structure of a modern societies from China and East Asia. A government ruled by Prime Minister, divided into ministry, a meritocracy system which select people based on their talent, not their ancestor, ... and thousands others. European Union is merely a copy of Spring-Autumn period 2000+ years ago.
> 
> Like India's "super powah" obsession, the West love to claim they are "the first" in everything and others copies them, denying the facts that before 1500, they were primitive and had to copy everything from China (especially after Mongolian invasion, which brought a lot of China civilization elements to the West, hence the Renaissance) and Middle East countries. Even from 1945 until now, much of advancement in technological/management arenas are rooted and flourished in Japan, then propagating to the Western countries, but the West shamelessly claims that Japanese learnt from them. East Asian people, on the other hand, does not have this obsession, and in many cases, just neglects and let the West says what they want.



Italian renaissance was because of Chinese influence, wow, that's a good one. 

The more I read what he writes, the more I think he is a Vietnamese of chinese origin living in some kind of dream state most of the time.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Italian renaissance was because of Chinese influence, wow, that's a good one.
> 
> The more I read what he writes, the more I think he is a Vietnamese of chinese origin living in some kind of dream state most of the time.


he is indeed of chinese descent. but I am pretty sure, he is a viet patriot, always ready to take the seat in a fighter jet to fight against all aggressors

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> Italian renaissance was because of Chinese influence, wow, that's a good one.
> 
> The more I read what he writes, the more I think he is a Vietnamese of chinese origin living in some kind of dream state most of the time.



Boy, my mother used to be a Greco-Roman history teacher at one of the most prestigious university in Vietnam (she published many books about Western history herself). In my parent house, there are a lot of documents which never be published. I had chances to question even the most well-known Vietnamese historians and I was still not satisfied with their replies.

Surely I have different view of history than an average Vietnamese


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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> Italian renaissance was because of Chinese influence, wow, that's a good one.
> 
> The more I read what he writes, the more I think he is a *Vietnamese of chinese origin* living in some kind of dream state most of the time.



Carlosa, Viet, should we continue the game of guessing who descended from whom?. Since you both started it long time ago, I want to upgrade it to a new level.

Viet, I guess you were born in Nha Trang from a family with mother of North Vietnamese origin and father of Chamic origin.

Carlosa, now I know you are a Vietnamese disguised as a Spaniard, I guess you were born into a family of both parents, despite Viet-speaking, of Chamic origin.


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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> Carlosa, Viet, should we continue the game of guessing who descended from whom?. Since you both started it long time ago, I want to upgrade it to a new level.
> 
> Viet, I guess you were born in Nha Trang from a family with mother of North Vietnamese origin and father of Chamic origin.
> 
> Carlosa, now I know you are a Vietnamese disguised as a Spaniard, I guess you were born into a family of both parents, despite Viet-speaking, of Chamic origin.



Not man, I'm from Mars pretending to be a human.



AViet said:


> Boy, my mother used to be a Greco-Roman history teacher at one of the most prestigious university in Vietnam (she published many books about Western history herself). In my parent house, there are a lot of documents which never be published. I had chances to question even the most well-known Vietnamese historians and I was still not satisfied with their replies.
> 
> Surely I have different view of history than an average Vietnamese



Greco Roman history teacher teaching a fringe chinese version of history of course.


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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> Italian renaissance was because of Chinese influence, wow, that's a good one.
> 
> The more I read what he writes, the more I think he is a Vietnamese of chinese origin living in some kind of dream state most of the time.





Viet said:


> he is indeed of chinese descent. but I am pretty sure, he is a viet patriot, always ready to take the seat in a fighter jet to fight against all aggressors





Carlosa said:


> Not man, I'm from Mars pretending to be a human.
> 
> Greco Roman history teacher teaching a fringe chinese version of history of course.



well, I was gonna rebut him, but then I figure, what's the point......

Maybe you two should do the same lol.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> Not man, I'm from Mars pretending to be a human.
> 
> 
> 
> Greco Roman history teacher teaching a fringe chinese version of history of course.


Have you ever had a smallest thought that we have been brainwashed by the Western version of history for the last 100 years, and the history our students taught now at universities have been written by chauvinist and racist Western historian?


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Carlosa, Viet, should we continue the game of guessing who descended from whom?. Since you both started it long time ago, I want to upgrade it to a new level.
> 
> Viet, I guess you were born in Nha Trang from a family with mother of North Vietnamese origin and father of Chamic origin.
> 
> Carlosa, now I know you are a Vietnamese disguised as a Spaniard, I guess you were born into a family of both parents, despite Viet-speaking, of Chamic origin.


Ha ha I am chamic and you have humor. Bro It's not insulting at all if saying chinese to anyone. My family members are full of chinese and half chinese.



jhungary said:


> well, I was gonna rebut him, but then I figure, what's the point......
> 
> Maybe you two should do the same lol.


Jhungary, I'm afraid you are doomed because you study in western brainwashed propaganda institutes according to our bro aviet


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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> Have you ever had a smallest thought that we have been brainwashed by the Western version of history for the last 100 years, and the history our students taught now at universities have been written by chauvinist and racist Western historian?



Have you ever had the smallest thought that you grew up in a racist, brainwashed family that was led to believe in the superiority of the mighty Confucian race?

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ha ha I am chamic and you have humor. Bro It's not insulting at all if saying chinese to anyone. My family members are full of chinese and half chinese.
> 
> 
> Jhungary, I'm afraid you are doomed because you study in western brainwashed propaganda institutes according to our bro aviet



lol........I grew up in Hong Kong, go figure

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## Viet

*Philippine, Vietnamese navies boost ties in goodwill visit*
The Le Quy Don 286 ship of the Vietnam People's Navy docks in the Philippines

*Rappler.com *
Published 8:40 PM, April 09, 2017






Photo from the Philippine Naval Public Affairs Office


MANILA, Philippines – A ship of the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) docked at the Manila South Harbor on Saturday, April 8, for a goodwill visit to the country.

Delegates of the Philippine Navy (PN) vessel _BRP Rajah Humabon_ escorted the VPN's ship Le Quy Don 286 to its berthing area.

On board were VPN Deputy Director Commodore Phan Van Van and 50 cadets, who are attending various events with their Filipino counterparts.

The activities include a shipboard tour, receptions, and a volleyball match. The goodwill visit will be capped by a send-off ceremony, where a PN vessel will escort the VPN's ship to the vicinity of Corregidor Island.

The visit, set until Monday, April 10, aims to strengthen ties between the two navies.

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## Carlosa

*Almost Certainly Vietnam Decided to Buy Yak-130 Aircraft*

29 March 2017

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/search/label/VIETNAM




Yak-130 aircraft (photo : Sputnik)

According to PK-KQ, almost certainly Yak-130 aircraft has been selected by the Vietnam Air Force as his new generation training aircraft.

In the article "Program renewal, the process of training military pilots is necessary" published in the Air Defense - Air Force, Colonel Nguyen Tien Hoc said:

"However, the newest of this program is that students do not graduate from L-39 but have to graduate on newer aircraft." According to the Department of Defense and the planes, The Yak-130 is a modern 4th generation aircraft and is compatible with the Su-27, Su-30.

Therefore, it is very convenient for the pilot after graduating from the Air Force School to transfer training at the Su-27, Su-30. " Vietnam has chosen but almost certainly Yak-130 has won the special attention of the Vietnam Air Force.

Previously, at the International Air and Marine Exhibition (LIMA-2017), the Vietnamese high-level military delegation had visited the site of the Yak-130 combat training ground. This is the type of aircraft that has been rumored by the Russian and international media that Vietnam is planning to buy.





Yak-130 aircraft 

Speaking about the necessity of the Yak-130 aircraft to Vietnam, Sputnik news agency has analyzed the analysis of Russian military science doctor Makar Aksenenko has analyzed the need for this. Recently in Hanoi the conference was held exclusively for this, which announced plans to set up the Center for Training of Supersonic Pilots.

With the initial training facility, Vietnam is interested in modern-day Yak-130 speed trainers and the L-39NG of the Czech Republic. So what kind of aircraft should you choose: Russian or Czech? In the commentary for Sputnik, fighter plane expert, military science doctoral student Makar Aksenenko expressed the following opinion:

"For a time, it was the L-39 that took wing for future Soviet Air Force fighter pilots, then the Russian Air Force, and a whole host of other countries. The Czech plane was used not only as a training machine, but also as a light attack aircraft.

However, as time progresses, new avionics technologies have emerged, changing the training program of combat pilots and flying tactics. Therefore, the L-39, even the New Generation L-39NG, was the "yesterday".

The aircraft has an engine, avionics that does not have close interoperability with modern aircraft systems such as Su-30, Su-35, MiG-35. This does not allow the use of the L-39 as a transitional medium for the training of fighter pilots.





Yak-130 aircraft (photo : Philip B. Hosking)

The question is about the feasibility of Vietnam setting up a training center for supersonic pilots, controlling modern "Su" fighters. The clear aim is that young combat pilots need the best training when it comes to combat units, and can immediately fulfill their assigned tasks. Russian expert Makar Aksenenko assessed:

"I understand the interest of Vietnamese experts in training human resources for aviation, and they need a trainer with the same characteristics as possible with complex supersonic aircraft. However, the Russian Yak-130 (subsonic speed) aircraft can simulate the characteristics of the features, and especially the "Behavior" on "ultrasound".

These are the advantages of a combat training machine built on the basis of modern elements! Its capabilities are sufficient to train pilot pilots at supersonic speeds. Moreover, the "ultrasound" flight - the only combat mode available for use even on modern fighters. In addition, it should take into account ... economic factors: reduce costs, "- Russian expert noted.

Currently, in order to train pilots, the Vietnam Air Force has a series of specialized training aircraft including the L-39, a multi-purpose training aircraft developed in the Czech Republic. In addition to the L39 aircraft, as a training aircraft, Vietnam currently has a Yak-52 aircraft.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> *Almost Certainly Vietnam Decided to Buy Yak-130 Aircraft*
> 
> 29 March 2017
> 
> http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/search/label/VIETNAM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yak-130 aircraft (photo : Sputnik)
> 
> According to PK-KQ, almost certainly Yak-130 aircraft has been selected by the Vietnam Air Force as his new generation training aircraft.
> 
> In the article "Program renewal, the process of training military pilots is necessary" published in the Air Defense - Air Force, Colonel Nguyen Tien Hoc said:
> 
> "However, the newest of this program is that students do not graduate from L-39 but have to graduate on newer aircraft." According to the Department of Defense and the planes, The Yak-130 is a modern 4th generation aircraft and is compatible with the Su-27, Su-30.
> 
> Therefore, it is very convenient for the pilot after graduating from the Air Force School to transfer training at the Su-27, Su-30. " Vietnam has chosen but almost certainly Yak-130 has won the special attention of the Vietnam Air Force.
> 
> Previously, at the International Air and Marine Exhibition (LIMA-2017), the Vietnamese high-level military delegation had visited the site of the Yak-130 combat training ground. This is the type of aircraft that has been rumored by the Russian and international media that Vietnam is planning to buy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yak-130 aircraft
> 
> Speaking about the necessity of the Yak-130 aircraft to Vietnam, Sputnik news agency has analyzed the analysis of Russian military science doctor Makar Aksenenko has analyzed the need for this. Recently in Hanoi the conference was held exclusively for this, which announced plans to set up the Center for Training of Supersonic Pilots.
> 
> With the initial training facility, Vietnam is interested in modern-day Yak-130 speed trainers and the L-39NG of the Czech Republic. So what kind of aircraft should you choose: Russian or Czech? In the commentary for Sputnik, fighter plane expert, military science doctoral student Makar Aksenenko expressed the following opinion:
> 
> "For a time, it was the L-39 that took wing for future Soviet Air Force fighter pilots, then the Russian Air Force, and a whole host of other countries. The Czech plane was used not only as a training machine, but also as a light attack aircraft.
> 
> However, as time progresses, new avionics technologies have emerged, changing the training program of combat pilots and flying tactics. Therefore, the L-39, even the New Generation L-39NG, was the "yesterday".
> 
> The aircraft has an engine, avionics that does not have close interoperability with modern aircraft systems such as Su-30, Su-35, MiG-35. This does not allow the use of the L-39 as a transitional medium for the training of fighter pilots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yak-130 aircraft (photo : Philip B. Hosking)
> 
> The question is about the feasibility of Vietnam setting up a training center for supersonic pilots, controlling modern "Su" fighters. The clear aim is that young combat pilots need the best training when it comes to combat units, and can immediately fulfill their assigned tasks. Russian expert Makar Aksenenko assessed:
> 
> "I understand the interest of Vietnamese experts in training human resources for aviation, and they need a trainer with the same characteristics as possible with complex supersonic aircraft. However, the Russian Yak-130 (subsonic speed) aircraft can simulate the characteristics of the features, and especially the "Behavior" on "ultrasound".
> 
> These are the advantages of a combat training machine built on the basis of modern elements! Its capabilities are sufficient to train pilot pilots at supersonic speeds. Moreover, the "ultrasound" flight - the only combat mode available for use even on modern fighters. In addition, it should take into account ... economic factors: reduce costs, "- Russian expert noted.
> 
> Currently, in order to train pilots, the Vietnam Air Force has a series of specialized training aircraft including the L-39, a multi-purpose training aircraft developed in the Czech Republic. In addition to the L39 aircraft, as a training aircraft, Vietnam currently has a Yak-52 aircraft.



How many will Vietnam be getting potentially?

This bird seems quite a popular one in the region.


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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> How many will Vietnam be getting potentially?
> 
> This bird seems quite a popular one in the region.



Its not known yet, no official information yet, as usual.

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## Farhan Bohra

AViet said:


> We are talking about 2017, not 1980s. And what fighter jet Israel did make in 1980s?. I do only know about the failed Levi program of Israel.
> 
> Do you mean some rifles are all Israel hardware "high-tech"?
> 
> Regarding indigenous launch program of Israel, do you think Israel actually made the rocket? I doubt about that. Again, very likely it would do like India to import most parts, assembled and gave it an Israeli name. How can a 6-million country, 20% of them Arab, manufacture such a rocket, which need thousands of precise parts? Does Israel have such manufacturing plants in the first place. And where are the workforce?
> 
> North Korea can do, because it has thousands of weapons manufacturing plants. In addition, its workforce for weapon industry are huge with world class quality. They are probably among the most disciplined, highly educated and high IQ workforce in the world.
> 
> Even Vietnam, India or Israel are transferred missile tech and can claim to manufacture the missile by itself, can any of these country actually manufacture the missile turbo engine from A to Z (material, metallurgy, precise manufacturing, etc.)?
> 
> Do not say everything on Western media are true. Think and analyze by yourself, using your knowledge and information from various sources.


Yes India doing so since days of 80s.

Even during days of sanctions from 1991-2005.

People too much undermine India's capability. While this is known how China stole technologies, but nothing about India.

How you think India able to develop solid propelled missile like A1,A2 and A3. Even when transferring critical tech. to India was banned.

Or you don't know India was under sanction for most part of history?

Leave alone India able to import any of such critical technologies from anywhere.

Obviously A4 and A5 is result of Indian R&D and industries absorbing western philosophies and ideas & tech.

But how you claim A1,A2 and A3 were result of imports. Even when Russia refused to provide any technologies to India.
Furthur, CIA was on all out to destroy India's space and missile program. If you don't know about this
Then educate yourself about this

http://www.dailypioneer.com/sunday-edition/sunday-pioneer/investigation/true-lies.html



> Outside of this activity, it would be relevant to point out here that the ISRO has not moved an inch in the cryogenic engine development programme ever since Narayanan and Sasi were ousted from the laboratories of the Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC) at Mahendragiri in Tamil Nadu, following a conspiracy hatched IB additional director Rattan Sehgal. It is alleged that Sehgal, later found to be a mole of the CIA, was helped by his deputies Mathew John and RB Sreekumar in framing the two scientists.
> 
> With the ouster of the two scientists, the country lost the services of two brilliant space engineers who without any outside help had perfected the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle Technology which continues to be India’s one and only workhorse for deploying remote sensing and earth satellites.

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## Viet

Hundreds of Vietnamese Americans "welcomed" China's President Xi Jinping on his way to meet US President Trump at Mar-a-La. Luckily according to police reports there were no violent clashes between Vietnamese protesters and Chinese greeters 

http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-p...inese-supporters-welcome-president-xi-jinping

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## Viet

*Vietnam seeks preferential Trump treatment*
 While the Southeast Asian nation seems a likely target for new US trade sanctions, recent revelations indicate a special deal could be on the cards 
By David Hutt April 10, 2017 3:12 PM (UTC+8) 







_Vietnam is seeking preferential US treatment under the Donald Trump administration to sustain a warming trend in relations consolidated under the previous Barack Obama government. Photo: Getty Images_


Before US president Donald Trump met his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping for a summit meeting in Florida, the American leader reached out to Vietnam in search of common ground. US-Vietnam relations were on an upswing under outgoing President Barack Obama, but have been cast into doubt since Trump’s rise on a protectionist ticket.

Trump’s meeting with Xi reportedly addressed mounting tensions in the South China Sea, a key issue for rival claimant Vietnam, though details of the discussions were not disclosed. Trump officials, including Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, had earlier threatened to challenge China’s expansionism in the contested waters but have since seemingly adopted a more pragmatic stance.

There are certain regional concerns that Trump may sacrifice the US’ balancing role, including the primacy it has given to maintaining freedom of navigation in the maritime region, in quid pro quo exchange with China on economic matters.

That could include China’s potential financial support for US infrastructure development, on which Trump has vowed to spend as much as US$1 trillion, and investments in US-based job-creating factories.

Although Vietnam has recently softened its stance on what it believes to be China’s illegal occupation of islands in the South China Sea – both nations agreed to more formal, less impassioned discussions in January – Hanoi still needs US support to lessen its economic dependence on Beijing.

US support on the South China Sea issue was key to the bilateral rapprochement achieved under Obama, a warming trend that arguably brought the two countries’ closer together than at any juncture since the Vietnam War.

That trend cooled when Trump, on his first day in office, withdrew the US from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a multilateral free trade agreement that promised to buoy Vietnam’s economic fortunes.






_US President Donald Trump holds up an executive order withdrawing the US from the Trans-Pacific Partnership at the White House on January 23, 2017. Photo: AFP/Saul Loeb_


According to certain independent estimates, the TPP would have boosted Vietnam’s gross domestic product by 11%, or almost US$36 billion, and increased exports by up to 28% over the next decade.

While Trump has threatened to impose border taxes on certain Asian countries’ exports to the US, it is not immediately clear that Vietnam is in his sites. In the recently revealed letter to President Tran Dai Quang, sent in February, Trump affirmed his “wishes to promote cooperation on economics, trade, regional and international issues.”

Quang made the letter public on March 31 after meeting with US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius, just days before Trump’s summit with his Chinese counterpart. Osius said during the meeting that Trump may personally attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit, which will be held in November in Vietnam.

Vietnam’s Communist Party leaders, though, apparently do not want to wait that long. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc announced last month that he would like to visit Washington as soon as possible, though it’s not clear that the February letter extended or hinted at a possible official meeting with Trump.

Hanoi’s urgency is likely explained by a desire to win assurances on trade. Vietnam’s exports to the US were worth US$38.5 billion last year, accounting for almost 20% of all shipments and making America the biggest importer of Vietnamese goods.

Hanoi might also hope to start negotiations towards a bilateral free trade agreement to replace the scrapped TPP. Trump has made clear he prefers to deal with trade partners on a bilateral rather multilateral basis, one of his stated chief reasons for withdrawing from the Obama-led TPP.






_Warming trend: US President Barack Obama (L) shakes hands with Vietnam’s President Tran Dai Quang (R) at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit held on November 20, 2016, in Lima, Peru. Photo: AFP/Brendan Smialowski_


US and Vietnamese officials met in late March in pursuit of a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement, a dialogue mechanism some have speculated could provide a ready framework for negotiating a bilateral trade deal.

TPP promised to provide international cover for politically difficult economic reforms, including a badly needed overhaul of its many hidebound state enterprises, several of which are known to be sources of patronage and corruption for influential Communist Party members.

Some already speculate a bilateral free-trade agreement, implemented along the lines of the TPP’s liberalizing agreements, would have the same affect, though few if any believe such a deal could be hammered out within the next year. The US currently shares bilateral FTAs with just 20 nations. Others suggest the desire to improve ties is felt more strongly in Hanoi than Washington.

While Trump has threatened to impose border taxes on certain Asian countries’ exports to the US, it is not immediately clear that Vietnam is in his sites. In the recently revealed letter to President Tran Dai Quang, sent in February, Trump affirmed his “wishes to promote cooperation on economics, trade, regional and international issues.”

Last month, Trump ordered officials to identify anti-competitive trade practices that are contributing to the US’ massive trade deficits. The US imported around US$29 billion more goods and services than it shipped to Vietnam last year, according to official statistics.

Trade deficit reduction is listed as second out of 24 elements the Trump administration envisions for future “model” trade agreements, according to a White House document.

With Vietnam listed as sixth on the list of global countries with the highest trade surpluses with the US, Trump could yet single out Hanoi as one of the countries contributing to the decline of US manufacturing. A free trade agreement would likely increase Vietnam’s trade surplus with the US, though there are certain indications that the current surplus is starting to narrow.

In January, imports from the US increased 14.6% driven by technology imports facilitated by new deals with US companies Apple and Dell. In the same month, US energy giant Exxon Mobil and state-owned PetroVietnam agreed to develop Vietnam’s largest natural gas-fired power generation project, a US$10 billion joint venture known as “Blue Whale.”

Exxon Mobil’s former chairman and chief executive, Rex Tillerson, is Trump’s secretary of state.

While some have speculated the US’s earlier trade and geopolitical support for Vietnam are set to decline under a more protectionist administration, one hint of continuation under Trump might be the decision to leave Ted Osius as ambassador, despite a Trump-issued mandate for all politically-appointed ambassadors installed under Obama to vacate their posts before his January inauguration.






_Diplomatic continuity: US Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius (L) talking with Vietnam’s Deputy Defense Minister General Nguyen Chi Vinh (R) in October 2016. Photo: AFP/ USAID Vietnam_


Osius, who helped to establish the US consulate in Ho Chi Minh City in 1997, was appointed to the ambassadorship by Obama in 2014. While trade and security ties improved substantially under Obama, Washington maintained pressure on Hanoi to improve its poor rights record, through a carrot-and-stick strategy that ultimately failed to influence meaningful change.

Some analysts have suggested, without much evidence, that Trump may jettison the US’ focus on human rights and democracy promotion in its foreign relations. Yet on March 29, the US State Department bestowed its “International Women of Courage Award” to imprisoned Vietnamese activist Nguyen Ngoc Nhu Quynh, a popular dissident blogger. The presentation was made by US First Lady Melania Trump.

Vietnamese foreign ministry spokesman Le Hai Binh rebuffed Quynh’s award, saying that it was “not suitable and beneficial to the development of the two countries’ relationship.” But as Trump threatens potential trade sanctions against yet unspecified nations, his government may oddly already have more negotiating leverage over such matters than his Obama predecessor.

http://www.atimes.com/article/vietnam-seeks-preferential-trump-treatment/


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## Carlosa

*The New Trans-Pacific Partnership*
The Pacific Alliance and ASEAN are crafting a key partnership of their own. 

By Anaïs Faure 
April 05, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/the-new-trans-pacific-partnership/

At the margins of last year’s United Nations General Assembly and on the occasion of their third ASEAN-Pacific Alliance Ministerial Meeting, the Pacific Alliance (Chile, Colombia, Mexico, and Peru) and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations officially subscribed to the “ASEAN-Pacific Alliance Framework for Cooperation.”

The agreement, which will frame these groups’ future collaboration on the economic, educational, scientific-technological, and sustainable development fronts, is the first of its kind between an East Asian and a Latin American regional organization. As such, it underscores the widening scope and growing importance of ties between these two regions, and reflects the gradual deepening of inter-regional relations at different levels of institutionalization.

With different alternatives on the table for Pacific Basin trade after the demise of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and with the Pacific Alliance displaying its potential for spearheading ties between Asia, the Pacific, and Latin America, deeper ASEAN-PA cooperation could well evolve into a key partnership with strategic implications, not only for its members but also in the wider Asia-Pacific theater.

*The Pacific Alliance and Latin America’s Pivot to Asia*

In 2012, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, and Peru launched the Pacific Alliance, an innovative integration model bringing together the region’s most open and dynamic economies. Together, these countries represent a market of 215 million people, 40 percent of Latin America’s GDP, and 52 percent of regional trade.

The PA’s most distinctive feature, and what set it apart from a myriad other integration efforts in Latin America, was its express aim to orient its members’ economies toward the Asia-Pacific. Behind this initiative was the need for economic diversification to sustain an export-led growth model, as well as the acknowledgement of global transition toward an Asia-centered economy. The latter was especially reflected in Latin America through high levels of Chinese investment, finance, and demand for raw materials and agricultural goods.

Since then, the Pacific Alliance has made significant progress on commercial integration (over 90 percent of tariffs have been dropped), ease of doing business, and coordinated diplomatic approaches. This has contributed to advancing relations with Asian countries, while building up the bloc’s credentials as a successful initiative. Now, in line with regional and global changes, more actors are seeking to cooperate with the Pacific Alliance. Prime examples are neighboring Argentina and Brazil, who have been actively calling for closer Mercosur-PA ties. Similarly, French President Francois Hollande conveyed France’s and the EU’s strong interest in formalizing ties with the PA during his visit to Chile and Colombia last January, as did the Spanish foreign minister in Peru and Mexico in early March.

These overtures have been well received by member countries, who are seeking to develop new partnerships and expand commercial opportunities — especially after the TPP fell apart. Indeed, during a virtual summit held on March 9, Pacific Alliance presidents vowed to further deepen the bloc’s integration levels and expand commercial networks — among which ASEAN and Mercosur were pinpointed as top priorities.

Yet in a further step aimed at consolidating the bloc’s position as a core actor of trans-Pacific trade, Chile – currently the P.A.’s pro tempore president – organized the “High Level Dialogue on Integration Initiatives in Asia Pacific: Challenges and Opportunities” last March 14-15, where foreign and trade ministers of TPP signatories, along with China, South Korea, and Colombia, explored new alternatives for Pacific Basin trade. At the outset, participants agreed to continue the discussion through APEC and reaffirmed their commitment to “high-standards free-trade.”

On its end, Pacific Alliance countries announced the creation of a figure of associated state to the bloc, which could become a key element in the Pacific Alliance’s expansive drive. According to Chilean Foreign Minister Heraldo Muñoz, this will facilitate the negotiation of “rapid, high-quality, and high-standards” FTAs with interested counterparties — which could be either individual countries (Canada and New Zealand are said to be first on the list, along with Costa Rica and Panama) or blocs of countries, such as ASEAN.

*Growing Ties Between the Pacific Alliance and ASEAN*

Bloc-to-bloc ties between the PA and ASEAN began in 2014, when the first Ministerial Meeting was held on the sidelines of that year’s UN General Assembly. Regular dialogues have occurred since then, the last one paving the way for more institutionalized relations through the “ASEAN-Pacific Alliance Framework for Cooperation.” The agreement’s four key areas of cooperation (economy, education, science and technology, and sustainable development) would lay the foundations for building a comprehensive partnership. And while, for now economic ties rank higher on priorities, incentives for deeper ties could rapidly build up.

Commercial ties with Southeast Asia can be traced back to the 1970s, when Singapore was a major investor in Latin America. However, inter-regional trade began to expand significantly in the first decade of the 2000s. By 2013, trade between Pacific Alliance countries and ASEAN was calculated at $16.8 billion, with a $1.2 billion deficit unfavorable to the Latin American bloc. Nowadays, about 0.6 percent of Pacific Alliance exports go to Southeast Asia, making the four countries eager to exploit the opportunities offered by ASEAN: a 600 million people market, a $2.6 trillion GDP, and outstanding middle class potential in Indonesia and the Philippines.

Higher levels of trade between Southeast Asian and Latin American countries led to a number of bilateral investment treaties (BITs) in the late 1990s, followed by free-trade agreements in the 2000s. Today, nine FTAs are in effect and three others are being negotiated — all of them including a Pacific Alliance member or aspiring member (Costa Rica and Panama), and with Chile and Singapore accounting for the greatest number of these treaties.

Currently, ASEAN-PA economic cooperation does not contemplate a multilateral FTA, but existing bilateral treaties could well serve as the grounds for such an agreement later on. In addition, in light of complementarities and intra-industry potential in the automobile and electronics sectors, the Pacific Alliance and ASEAN are prioritizing global value chains as one of their main collaboration areas. Undoubtedly, the evolution of PA-ASEAN trade patterns along this line would increase incentives for an eventual multilateral agreement and for comprehensive cooperation, raising the stakes of the relation in terms of wider trans-Pacific networks.

Already in October 2015, Songsak Saicheua, director general for American and South Pacific affairs at Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, had signaled that such an evolution would be natural in the future of these blocs’ relations. He made the comments at “The Pacific Alliance and ASEAN: Synergies and Perspectives for Cooperation” conferece in Bangkok.

*Challenges, Opportunities, and Strategic Implications*

Despite public diplomacy efforts by Pacific Alliance and ASEAN members alike emphasizing the desirability of upscaling their relations, actual progress will face challenges on several fronts. Inadequate infrastructure and high logistic costs remain a problem, as well as relatively low mutual cultural awareness between these highly diverse groups of countries. Different levels of institutionalization in each bloc, potentially competing national interests, and changes in domestic political landscapes could also hinder the progress of relations.

Nonetheless, the current context offers the Pacific Alliance and ASEAN an outstanding opportunity to build up their partnership. As the exploration of alternatives for Asia-Pacific economic integration will involve different levels of relations between stakeholders — ranging from wide-scope fora such as APEC or FEALAC (the Forum for East Asia-Latin America Cooperation) and intermediate spaces like the ASEAN-PA dialogue, to bilateral relations — interaction between countries from these blocs at each one of the levels of inter-regional relations will make them key stakeholders for new Pacific trade options.

In the past too, countries such as Chile and Singapore had a critical role in shaping inter-regional ties, as seen through the founding of FEALAC in 1999 and the “Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership” (P4) in 2005 (the first FTA linking the Asia-Pacific and Latin America and forerunner to the TPP). Today, a new critical window opens as different levels of inter-regional relations overlap and Pacific Alliance and ASEAN countries occupy key positions in APEC and FEALAC (the 2017/18 regional coordinators will be Laos and potentially Peru). This, added to regular interaction through their own mechanisms, gives Pacific Alliance and ASEAN members the chance to simultaneously scale up their partnership and play an instrumental role in fashioning new trade scenarios, including various channels such as the PA’s associated state, the China-led and ASEAN-centered Regional Economic Comprehensive Partnership (RCEP), or APEC’s wider Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific (FTTAP) — also strongly backed by China but including the United States.

Finally, as alternatives unfold, the strategic implications of a strong Pacific Alliance-ASEAN partnership will become increasingly visible in the balancing function the relationship can play _vis-à-vis_ economic superpowers. Indeed, economic diversification, which is itself a form of hedging, will help these blocs to lessen economic dependence on major powers, while protecting them from the effects of an eventual trade war. At the same time, stronger bloc-to-bloc ties could serve as a soft mechanism to offset an increasingly strong influence of China in both trans-Pacific and in East Asia-Latin America relations, thus contributing to a stable, balanced environment for the progress of inter-regional relations.

_Anaïs Faure holds a Master’s in Korean Studies from the Academy of Korean Studies and a Master’s in Development Policy from the KDI School of Public Policy and Management, both in South Korea. Her research interests include the dynamics of East Asia-Latin America relations and South Korea’s foreign policy._

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## Viet

The modernization of the panzer armies, that consist of more than 2,000 of T-54, T-55, T-62 main battle tanks seems to continue, but now without Israel expensive support. Factory Z199 manufactures night vision device TKN-1CT and half automatic loading mechanism for the tank gun D-10T2S. A reactive armour comes as soon as its development is complete.

http://kienthuc.net.vn/quan-su/khong-can-israel-viet-nam-tu-do-hoa-luc-xe-tang-t-55-820835.html#p-1










































one of the mainstays of Vietnam air defence: medium range S-125-2TM Pechora

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## Star Expedition

Carlosa said:


> *The New Trans-Pacific Partnership*
> The Pacific Alliance and ASEAN are crafting a key partnership of their own.
> 
> By Anaïs Faure
> April 05, 2017
> 
> http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/the-new-trans-pacific-partnership/
> 
> At the margins of last year’s United Nations General Assembly and on the occasion of their third ASEAN-Pacific Alliance Ministerial Meeting, the Pacific Alliance (Chile, Colombia, Mexico, and Peru) and the Association of Southeast Asian Nations officially subscribed to the “ASEAN-Pacific Alliance Framework for Cooperation.”
> 
> The agreement, which will frame these groups’ future collaboration on the economic, educational, scientific-technological, and sustainable development fronts, is the first of its kind between an East Asian and a Latin American regional organization. As such, it underscores the widening scope and growing importance of ties between these two regions, and reflects the gradual deepening of inter-regional relations at different levels of institutionalization.
> 
> With different alternatives on the table for Pacific Basin trade after the demise of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and with the Pacific Alliance displaying its potential for spearheading ties between Asia, the Pacific, and Latin America, deeper ASEAN-PA cooperation could well evolve into a key partnership with strategic implications, not only for its members but also in the wider Asia-Pacific theater.
> 
> *The Pacific Alliance and Latin America’s Pivot to Asia*
> 
> In 2012, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, and Peru launched the Pacific Alliance, an innovative integration model bringing together the region’s most open and dynamic economies. Together, these countries represent a market of 215 million people, 40 percent of Latin America’s GDP, and 52 percent of regional trade.
> 
> The PA’s most distinctive feature, and what set it apart from a myriad other integration efforts in Latin America, was its express aim to orient its members’ economies toward the Asia-Pacific. Behind this initiative was the need for economic diversification to sustain an export-led growth model, as well as the acknowledgement of global transition toward an Asia-centered economy. The latter was especially reflected in Latin America through high levels of Chinese investment, finance, and demand for raw materials and agricultural goods.
> 
> Since then, the Pacific Alliance has made significant progress on commercial integration (over 90 percent of tariffs have been dropped), ease of doing business, and coordinated diplomatic approaches. This has contributed to advancing relations with Asian countries, while building up the bloc’s credentials as a successful initiative. Now, in line with regional and global changes, more actors are seeking to cooperate with the Pacific Alliance. Prime examples are neighboring Argentina and Brazil, who have been actively calling for closer Mercosur-PA ties. Similarly, French President Francois Hollande conveyed France’s and the EU’s strong interest in formalizing ties with the PA during his visit to Chile and Colombia last January, as did the Spanish foreign minister in Peru and Mexico in early March.
> 
> These overtures have been well received by member countries, who are seeking to develop new partnerships and expand commercial opportunities — especially after the TPP fell apart. Indeed, during a virtual summit held on March 9, Pacific Alliance presidents vowed to further deepen the bloc’s integration levels and expand commercial networks — among which ASEAN and Mercosur were pinpointed as top priorities.
> 
> Yet in a further step aimed at consolidating the bloc’s position as a core actor of trans-Pacific trade, Chile – currently the P.A.’s pro tempore president – organized the “High Level Dialogue on Integration Initiatives in Asia Pacific: Challenges and Opportunities” last March 14-15, where foreign and trade ministers of TPP signatories, along with China, South Korea, and Colombia, explored new alternatives for Pacific Basin trade. At the outset, participants agreed to continue the discussion through APEC and reaffirmed their commitment to “high-standards free-trade.”
> 
> On its end, Pacific Alliance countries announced the creation of a figure of associated state to the bloc, which could become a key element in the Pacific Alliance’s expansive drive. According to Chilean Foreign Minister Heraldo Muñoz, this will facilitate the negotiation of “rapid, high-quality, and high-standards” FTAs with interested counterparties — which could be either individual countries (Canada and New Zealand are said to be first on the list, along with Costa Rica and Panama) or blocs of countries, such as ASEAN.
> 
> *Growing Ties Between the Pacific Alliance and ASEAN*
> 
> Bloc-to-bloc ties between the PA and ASEAN began in 2014, when the first Ministerial Meeting was held on the sidelines of that year’s UN General Assembly. Regular dialogues have occurred since then, the last one paving the way for more institutionalized relations through the “ASEAN-Pacific Alliance Framework for Cooperation.” The agreement’s four key areas of cooperation (economy, education, science and technology, and sustainable development) would lay the foundations for building a comprehensive partnership. And while, for now economic ties rank higher on priorities, incentives for deeper ties could rapidly build up.
> 
> Commercial ties with Southeast Asia can be traced back to the 1970s, when Singapore was a major investor in Latin America. However, inter-regional trade began to expand significantly in the first decade of the 2000s. By 2013, trade between Pacific Alliance countries and ASEAN was calculated at $16.8 billion, with a $1.2 billion deficit unfavorable to the Latin American bloc. Nowadays, about 0.6 percent of Pacific Alliance exports go to Southeast Asia, making the four countries eager to exploit the opportunities offered by ASEAN: a 600 million people market, a $2.6 trillion GDP, and outstanding middle class potential in Indonesia and the Philippines.
> 
> Higher levels of trade between Southeast Asian and Latin American countries led to a number of bilateral investment treaties (BITs) in the late 1990s, followed by free-trade agreements in the 2000s. Today, nine FTAs are in effect and three others are being negotiated — all of them including a Pacific Alliance member or aspiring member (Costa Rica and Panama), and with Chile and Singapore accounting for the greatest number of these treaties.
> 
> Currently, ASEAN-PA economic cooperation does not contemplate a multilateral FTA, but existing bilateral treaties could well serve as the grounds for such an agreement later on. In addition, in light of complementarities and intra-industry potential in the automobile and electronics sectors, the Pacific Alliance and ASEAN are prioritizing global value chains as one of their main collaboration areas. Undoubtedly, the evolution of PA-ASEAN trade patterns along this line would increase incentives for an eventual multilateral agreement and for comprehensive cooperation, raising the stakes of the relation in terms of wider trans-Pacific networks.
> 
> Already in October 2015, Songsak Saicheua, director general for American and South Pacific affairs at Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, had signaled that such an evolution would be natural in the future of these blocs’ relations. He made the comments at “The Pacific Alliance and ASEAN: Synergies and Perspectives for Cooperation” conferece in Bangkok.
> 
> *Challenges, Opportunities, and Strategic Implications*
> 
> Despite public diplomacy efforts by Pacific Alliance and ASEAN members alike emphasizing the desirability of upscaling their relations, actual progress will face challenges on several fronts. Inadequate infrastructure and high logistic costs remain a problem, as well as relatively low mutual cultural awareness between these highly diverse groups of countries. Different levels of institutionalization in each bloc, potentially competing national interests, and changes in domestic political landscapes could also hinder the progress of relations.
> 
> Nonetheless, the current context offers the Pacific Alliance and ASEAN an outstanding opportunity to build up their partnership. As the exploration of alternatives for Asia-Pacific economic integration will involve different levels of relations between stakeholders — ranging from wide-scope fora such as APEC or FEALAC (the Forum for East Asia-Latin America Cooperation) and intermediate spaces like the ASEAN-PA dialogue, to bilateral relations — interaction between countries from these blocs at each one of the levels of inter-regional relations will make them key stakeholders for new Pacific trade options.
> 
> In the past too, countries such as Chile and Singapore had a critical role in shaping inter-regional ties, as seen through the founding of FEALAC in 1999 and the “Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership” (P4) in 2005 (the first FTA linking the Asia-Pacific and Latin America and forerunner to the TPP). Today, a new critical window opens as different levels of inter-regional relations overlap and Pacific Alliance and ASEAN countries occupy key positions in APEC and FEALAC (the 2017/18 regional coordinators will be Laos and potentially Peru). This, added to regular interaction through their own mechanisms, gives Pacific Alliance and ASEAN members the chance to simultaneously scale up their partnership and play an instrumental role in fashioning new trade scenarios, including various channels such as the PA’s associated state, the China-led and ASEAN-centered Regional Economic Comprehensive Partnership (RCEP), or APEC’s wider Free Trade Area of the Asia-Pacific (FTTAP) — also strongly backed by China but including the United States.
> 
> Finally, as alternatives unfold, the strategic implications of a strong Pacific Alliance-ASEAN partnership will become increasingly visible in the balancing function the relationship can play _vis-à-vis_ economic superpowers. Indeed, economic diversification, which is itself a form of hedging, will help these blocs to lessen economic dependence on major powers, while protecting them from the effects of an eventual trade war. At the same time, stronger bloc-to-bloc ties could serve as a soft mechanism to offset an increasingly strong influence of China in both trans-Pacific and in East Asia-Latin America relations, thus contributing to a stable, balanced environment for the progress of inter-regional relations.
> 
> _Anaïs Faure holds a Master’s in Korean Studies from the Academy of Korean Studies and a Master’s in Development Policy from the KDI School of Public Policy and Management, both in South Korea. Her research interests include the dynamics of East Asia-Latin America relations and South Korea’s foreign policy._




Supporting actor is much more busier than real players.


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## Farhan Bohra

> *L & T will also undertake the life-extension-cum-upgradation of Vietnam People's Navy's Petya-class ASW corvettes & will also install twin-tube torpedo launchers capable of launching Varunastra HWTs. *


http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/04/from-t-6bhim-to-k-9vajra-t-tracing.html

Also I got a news from a very good source that Tata showcased Kestral to visiting dignitaries from Vietnam, Vietnam now asked to install ATGM on Kestral of there choice, and trials in Vietnam by end of this year.

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## Aqsuperman

Several major improvements for the VPN in anti-submarine and anti-ship warfare

Upgrade the seeker of old torpedoes used on the Petya class and other torpedoes launcher ships, presumably based on Type 53/65 torpedoes technology used on the Kilo. 







Self-produce the sonobuoy and master the deploying technique by Ka-27

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## Farhan Bohra

Here is Likely Upgrade Package from L&T

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## Viet

the army is looking for new source of income by founding *Vietstar Airlines*, that will provide passenger and cargo services. However it has to wait until the construction of an additional passenger terminal and aprons at Tan Son Nhat International Airport is completed. Vietnam airports are overcrowded due to exploding demands. 

_



_

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/04/from-t-6bhim-to-k-9vajra-t-tracing.html
> 
> Also I got a news from a very good source that Tata showcased Kestral to visiting dignitaries from Vietnam, Vietnam now asked to install ATGM on Kestral of there choice, and trials in Vietnam by end of this year.



Very interesting news bro, hope it gets confirmed 

TATA Motors "Kestrel" 8x8 amphibious wheeled APC / IFV,
Operating Crew: 2 + 12
Length: 25.59 feet (7.80 meters)
Width: 9.68 feet (2.95 meters)
Height: 7.48 feet (2.28 meters)

Operating Weight: 28 tons (25,000 kg; 55,116 lb)
Maximum Road Speed: 62 mph (100 km/h)

*Armament and Ammunition*

STANDARD:
1 x 30mm automatic cannon
1 x 7.62mm coaxial machine gun
2 x Anti-Tank Guided Missile (ATGM) launchers

OPTIONAL (with Remote Weapons Station:
1 x 12.7mm heavy machine gun
1 x 40mm automatic grenade launcher












Here is a video of the Kestral IFV:

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## Viet

I haven't seen it before: Vietnam T-55 tank with new armor.





This howitzer SU-152 with 152 mm main gun can destroy every hardened target.



Good stuff: amphibious tanks

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## Viet

Japanese destroyer Fuyuzuki (Winter Moon) visits the Cam Ranh bay. Besides paying friendly visit and other diplomatic activities, the $1b warship will be resupplied with fuel, food, freshwater and everything it needs for its mission. Vietnam currently limits foreign warships making port calls. We don't want to anger a certain country too much.

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## Viet

Welcomed by US Lieutenant General Robert Caslen and US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Southeast Asia Patrick Murphy, Vietnamese Ambassador to the US Pham Quang Vinh pays a visit to the *US Military Academy West Point*, New York. Maybe the Cadets of Vietnamese People´s Army will have a chance to visit the Academy. What a irony of history.


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## Viet

2017/04/12, Military
*The Modernization of the Vietnam People's Navy: Grand Goals and Limited Options *





Photo Credit: Nguyen Minh / Reuters / 達志影像 

*The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative *

The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative is an interactive, regularly-updated source for information, analysis, and policy exchange on maritime security issues in Asia. It was launched by the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
Truong Minh Vu AND Nguyen The Phuong


The Vietnam People’s Navy (VPN) on Feb. 28 deployed the last of six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines ordered from Russia in 2009. In deploying the full fleet, the VPN became the owner of the largest submarine fleet in Southeast Asia. But it is worthwhile to compare both the size and quality of the VPN’s submarine force with those of its neighbors.

Only three other navies in Southeast Asia have submarines in their fleets. The Indonesian Navy procured two Type 209 submarines from West Germany in 1978 in order to defend its vast territorial waters. By the year 2024, Indonesia plans to operate three Chang Bogo-class submarines from Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering and three additional Kilo-class submarines from Russia. The Royal Malaysian Navy has operated two Scorpène-class submarines since 2009, while the Singaporean navy plans to phase out two of its Challenger-class submarines and replace them with Type 218SG diesel-electric submarines from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems by 2020. As maritime disputes drive increased tensions in the region, more countries intend to join the submarine club, including Thailand and Philippines.

The South Sea Fleet of China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) currently has 22 submarines in service, comprising 16 diesel attack submarines, four nuclear ballistic missile submarines, and two nuclear attack submarines. Discounting the nuclear-powered submarines, the Vietnamese vessels may be more technologically advanced than most of the PLAN’s diesel attack submarines. The improved MGK-400E sensor array, current-generation GE2-01 radar, infrared periscope monitoring system, and even air conditioning system of the Vietnamese Kilos are top-of-the-line. Most importantly, Vietnam’s submarines are fitted with the latest 3M-14E Klub land attack cruise missile, with a range of 290 kilometers. Russia, which manufactures the missiles, has not yet approved their export to China, though Beijing has compensated by developing its own anti-ship and land attack cruise missile, the YJ-18.

The official commissioning of the last of the Kilo submarines was a landmark moment for the VPN in its transformation from a brown-water to a green-water navy. Koh Swee Lean Collin points out that this shift will require strengthening the navy’s anti-submarine warfare capabilities; the asymmetric balance of undersea capabilities evident in the South China Sea presents both a need and an opportunity for the VPN to adapt its operational and tactical concepts to the use of submarines.

Both qualitative and quantitative advantages play an important role in fighting a naval battle, but they can be rendered insufficient without a sound and coherent strategy employing effective operational and tactical concepts. For a small and developing navy like the VPN, an understanding of naval strategy is fundamental in the face of bigger and more technologically advanced opponents. By laying out a huge portion of its budget in procuring a submarine fleet and the requisite support, such as ports and training, Vietnam has shown a willingness to maintain a peacetime deterrent as well as a dangerous wartime weapon — an important step in assuring the country’s territorial sovereignty.

Nevertheless, undersea warfare is just one component of the larger strategy a strong naval force should pursue. Koh Swee Lean Collin also notes that the VPN is gradually changing its approach from traditional sea-denial to the more active but still asymmetric counter-intervention strategy. Sea-denial focuses on denying the use of the sea by opponents or “merchant traffic engaged in war-sustaining trade, in situations where one’s own forces are unable to establish sea and air control.” Small navies employ this strategy to prevent stronger foes from entering a particular space of operation. It is a defensive and passive strategy that appeals to less-advanced and smaller forces.

A larger or more advanced naval force puts more options on the table. With its 3M-14E missiles, the VPN can strike land-based infrastructure or outposts in a surprise submarine attack. This capability underpins the efficiency of deterrence in both peacetime and wartime scenarios. Submarine warfare is complicated, but it is a powerful complement to a larger and well-crafted “counter-intervention” strategy.

The transition to greater littoral capability impacts not only the present regional context but, looking forward, means a huge qualitative shift for the VPN. From the start, such an upgrade requires a tremendous amount of financial support and attention from higher-level leadership. The submarine force is the vanguard of Vietnam’s attempt to modernize its navy as a whole, and for an effective counter-intervention strategy to be smoothly executed, each branch of the VPN must be able to cooperate with the others. For instance, to conduct an anti-submarine mission, surface warships and naval aviation need to coordinate and act jointly with submarines. 

Command and control, as well as intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capabilities, need further investment and upgrades to ensure the new capabilities of the submarine fleet are not wasted. Other areas that should see improvement in the future include amphibious warfare, where the VPN must allocate resources to modernize amphibious ships and vehicles, and integration between the VPN and the Vietnam People’s Air Force.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Very interesting news bro, hope it gets confirmed
> 
> TATA Motors "Kestrel" 8x8 amphibious wheeled APC / IFV,
> Operating Crew: 2 + 12
> Length: 25.59 feet (7.80 meters)
> Width: 9.68 feet (2.95 meters)
> Height: 7.48 feet (2.28 meters)
> 
> Operating Weight: 28 tons (25,000 kg; 55,116 lb)
> Maximum Road Speed: 62 mph (100 km/h)
> 
> *Armament and Ammunition*
> 
> STANDARD:
> 1 x 30mm automatic cannon
> 1 x 7.62mm coaxial machine gun
> 2 x Anti-Tank Guided Missile (ATGM) launchers
> 
> OPTIONAL (with Remote Weapons Station:
> 1 x 12.7mm heavy machine gun
> 1 x 40mm automatic grenade launcher
> 
> View attachment 390133
> View attachment 390135
> View attachment 390136
> 
> 
> Here is a video of the Kestral IFV:




If you are interested, Tata Kestrel showcasing mobility after 1:10 min






And people explaining TATA Kestrel

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> If you are interested, Tata Kestrel showcasing mobility after 1:10 min
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And people explaining TATA Kestrel



Good stuff, thank you, hope Vietnam will get it.


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## Carlosa

*New Zealand naval ship visits Da Nang*

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/government/176439/new-zealand-naval-ship-visits-da-nang.html

_The Royal New Zealand Navy ship, HMNZS TE KAHA carrying 27 officers and 150 sailors on board docked in central Da Nang city’s port on April 12, starting its five-day friendship visit to Vietnam. _


_



_

_Royal New Zealand Navy ship, HMNZS TE KAHA_

The ship and crew members were welcomed by representatives of the municipal Department of Foreign Service, the Military Zone 5, the Naval High Command and relevant agencies, and those from the New Zealand Embassy in Vietnam. 

Before reaching the port, the guest ship joined vessels of the Vietnam People’s Navy for a number of activities relating to communications and operation performance at sea. 

During the stay, the officers and sailors are scheduled to pay courtesy visits to leaders of the municipal People’s Committee, the Military High Command Zone 5 and the Naval High Command Zone 3.

They will also play sports with Vietnamese naval officers and soldiers; take part in several social activities; and visit tourism and historical sites in the city.

_VNA_

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## Viet

Look who comes for a visit in the first week of May: Japan defense minister Inada Tomomi. She is probably the best looking military chief in the free world 








Cadets training sailship *286/Lê Quý Đôn *sets sail making a port call to China. As usual if anything relates to a certain neighbor, not much info is disclosed.








*Armur class attack submarine: *Vietnam next submarine fleet? Russia urges Vietnam to acquire more muscles in the underwater warfare, but the army is a bit hesitant because the acquisition will escalate the arms race.


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## Viet

The army in recent exercise

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## AViet

Farhan Bohra said:


> If you are interested, Tata Kestrel showcasing mobility after 1:10 min
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And people explaining TATA Kestrel



Can you stop posting such nonsense in Vietnam Military Forum. It is not related to Vietnam. Thanks.

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## Farhan Bohra

AViet said:


> Can you stop posting such nonsense in Vietnam Military Forum. It is not related to Vietnam. Thanks.




Firstly, you don't own a forum. Start to follow "Live and Let Live". If you feel nonsense , that is up to you.

And I only posted because someone is interested, and that is properly relevant with Vietnam.

if you have any problem, then keep that in your pocket. I don't give a shit about you. Thank You.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Firstly, you don't own a forum. Start to follow "Live and Let Live". If you feel nonsense , that is upto you.
> 
> And I only posted because someone is interested,and that is properly relevant with Vietnam.
> 
> if you have any problem, then keep that in your pocket. I don't give a shit about you. Thank You.



Very well said, the subject of the Kestrel is very relevant to the tread since Vietnam is interested in it and in that case, we want to get as much information about it as possible. Please keep us updated on the subject, thanks.

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## Viet

AViet said:


> Can you stop posting such nonsense in Vietnam Military Forum. It is not related to Vietnam. Thanks.


bro India is a great military power, nuclear armed, possessing many key technologies, we want to acquire. No need to convince anyone the country should never be underestimated. India is one of the pillars of Vietnam foreign defense relations.

This news brings Vietnam one step closer to manufacturing large warships. According to QĐND newspaper, Vietnam has acquired the technology of Fire control radar MP-123. the radar is used to guide ship artillery gun such as AK-100, AK-176, AK-230, AK-630M and AK-726.

Great stuff

destroyer is coming

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## Viet

Maybe an omen. For the first time ever, three officers from three branches of military service are sent to Central Africa for a peacekeeping mission.


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## GrandWorldOrder

Hello. I've been looking at this page as a guest for awhile and just opened an account on here to take part in the discussion. Theres a question I've had for awhile but never seem to be able to answer. Thought I would ask it here.

Whatever happened to the Vietnamese honor guard? I saw videos and images of them marching in the 2010 Hanoi parade. Obviously they're still around and perform duties, though move five years later though and they're missing from the military parades. Any idea why? Were they not taking part in the 2015 independence day parade or....?


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## Viet

GrandWorldOrder said:


> Hello. I've been looking at this page as a guest for awhile and just opened an account on here to take part in the discussion. Theres a question I've had for awhile but never seem to be able to answer. Thought I would ask it here.
> 
> Whatever happened to the Vietnamese honor guard? I saw videos and images of them marching in the 2010 Hanoi parade. Obviously they're still around and perform duties, though move five years later though and they're missing from the military parades. Any idea why? Were they not taking part in the 2015 independence day parade or....?


Hey welcome. honor guard is by definition represents all three branches of the country's military service: the land army, the navy and the airforce. And as such it is usually not part of a military parade. Probably to avoid a double showcase. All military services are showed up at a parade. I may be wrong.


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## Viet

Accompanied by destroyer Le Courber, French helicopter carrier Mistral returns to Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

Update on the 105mm M101 on Ural project, 4 units of the latest version, M3, are undergoing test

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Update on the 105mm M101 on Ural project, 4 units of the latest version, M3, are undergoing test


Looking great. I like it, especially the verhicle's side wall

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> Looking great. I like it, especially the verhicle's side wall



Well a bit more and we can say that our vehicle is the ugly cousin of ROK EVO 105 :v

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Well a bit more and we can say that our vehicle is the ugly cousin of ROK EVO 105 :v


The army should continue with 152 mm on truck.

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## Carlosa

*Japanese warship docks in Vietnam *

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 04/13/2017 10:52 GMT + 7





*A destroyer from the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) arrived at the international seaport in the south-central Vietnamese province of Khanh Hoa on Wednesday, commencing the ship’s visit to Vietnam.*

The Fuyuzuki docked at Cam Ranh Port, located in the namesake city in Khanh Hoa, on Thursday morning to a warm welcome by officials from the 4th Regional Command under the Vietnam People’s Navy.

The visit, scheduled for April 12 to 15, will feature meetings between Japanese naval officers and leaders from the provincial People’s Committee and the 4th Regional Command, as well as tours of certain Vietnamese naval vessels.

Built by Mitsui Shipbuilding Company in Tamaro, the US$1 billion Fuyuzuki measures 150 meters long, weighs 6,800 metric tons, and carries a crew of 200 people. 

It was completed on June 14, 2011 and assigned to the JMSDF on April 13, 2014.






_Crew members of the Fuyuzuki arrive at Cam Ranh Port._ Photo: Tuoi Tre

The ship is an Akizuki-class destroyer – a model intended to escort Hyuga class ships and Izumo class helicopter destroyers while providing defense against surface, airborne, and undersea threats.

Also on Wednesday, frigate HMNZS Te Kaha of the Royal New Zealand Navy, carrying 178 crew members, arrived at Tien Sa Port for the beginning of a four-day official visit to the central city of Da Nang. 

The visit is proof of the strong defense and security ties between the two nations, contributing to their bilateral relationship, said Wendy Matthews, New Zealand’s Ambassador to Vietnam.

Commanders of the HMNZS Te Kaha are expected to meet with leaders from the municipal administration and the Vietnamese navy’s 3rd Regional Command.






_Frigate HMNZS Te Kaha of the Royal New Zealand Navy docks at Tien Sa Port in the central city of Da Nang on April 12, 2017._Photo: Tuoi Tre

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## Viet

Not military but regardless I post here. Three recent news that shock Vietnam.

*Japan *

On the way to her school, a 9-year old Vietnamese schoolgirl called Linh went missing. Her naked body was found later near a drainage ditch. Japanese police arrests in the connection a 46-year-old man named Shibuya Yasumasa on the morning of April 14. He is believed to have kidnapped, sexually abused, strangulated the girl to death. Her boby shows sign of injury.

The man is head of the parents’ association at Linh’s school. Japan public is shocked. Japanese government expresses deep condolences. Japan's Ambassador to Vietnam Umeda Kunio conveys apology to Linh's father in front of their home in the northern province of Hung Yen.


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## Viet

*United States *

The mistreatment of a Vietnamese-American man, Dr. David Dao, on a United Airlines plane, where the Chicago aviation police removed him from the aircraft by force, can cost the company the existence in worst case. Dao suffers a concussion, a broken nose, and lost two teeth. The anger in the public and in the media force the US government and parliament to respond. Aviation authorities investigate the case. Lawsuit against United Airlines and the City of Chicago is prepared. The daughter, Crystal Dao, says what happened to her father shouldn't happen to anyone else.

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## Viet

*Malaysia *

Doan Thi Huong, a suspect of murdering Kim Jong Nam, the North Korean leader’s late half-brother, is put on trial in Malaysia. The case brings North Korea and Malaysia to a diplomatic crisis not seen in history. North Korea demands the release, while Vietnam steps up pressure on Malaysia. Has Malaysia forgotten NK nuclear missiles can reach the Malay peninsula in 15 minutes? Huong will be defended by a nine-member team in court, with two from Malaysian best lawyers Hisyam Teh Poh Teik and Naran Singh, and three Vietnamese lawyers.

One of Huong's Malaysian lawyers attacks the court and police because the defense team haven't received the evidences: "Neither side may seek unfair advantage by concealing weapons behind its back. There should be no trial by ambush."

as Malaysia itself fears NK can send killers to silence Huong, she has to wear protective gears and always be accompanied by a armed police team.


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## Viet

April 14. A rare visit from the Siamese. Three Thai warships H.T.M.S Chaophraya (FF4555), H.T.M.S Makutrajakuman (FF 443) and H.T.M.S Narathitwa (OPV 12) under the command of Admiral Chandarodvong pay a visit to the Cam Ranh bay. Things become increasingly interesting.








BRdm-2 light amphibious patrol tank. The army reportedly has 200 pieces in inventory.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> bro India is a great military power, nuclear armed, possessing many key technologies, we want to acquire. No need to convince anyone the country should never be underestimated. India is one of the pillars of Vietnam foreign defense relations.
> 
> This news brings Vietnam one step closer to manufacturing large warships. According to QĐND newspaper, Vietnam has acquired the technology of Fire control radar MP-123. the radar is used to guide ship artillery gun such as AK-100, AK-176, AK-230, AK-630M and AK-726.
> 
> Great stuff
> 
> destroyer is coming


Not sure India will become a great military power though they sure have the potential but so far have not much to show for it. Rather it will be interesting to see a rising Vietnam. I am surprised myself to see the progress Vietnam has made. When I was with Sandvik, a Swedish tools and steel company, we never ordered anything from our Indian subsidiary due to quality problems. So I would be cautious with anything made in India. Let's look forward to Made in Vietnam.


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## Viet

sinait said:


> Not sure India will become a great military power though they sure have the potential but so far have not much to show for it. Rather it will be interesting to see a rising Vietnam. I am surprised myself to see the progress Vietnam has made. When I was with Sandvik, a Swedish tools and steel company, we never ordered anything from our Indian subsidiary due to quality problems. So I would be cautious with anything made in India. Let's look forward to Made in Vietnam.


India operates aircraft carriers, destroyers and nuclear submarines, so toys Vietnam can dream of. India army has proven in wars against Pakistan. when at work, any time I call out to a Cisco Systems technical hotline, I got 80 pct all the cases someone from India on the phone. sure, India has weaknesss, but everything is relative (says Albert Einstein).

Vietnam rise should not worry anyone. We are a peaceful country. Made in VN is in the making. Cheers!

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## sinait

Viet said:


> India operates aircraft carriers, destroyers and nuclear submarines, so toys Vietnam can dream of. India army has proven in wars against Pakistan. when at work, any time I call out to a Cisco Systems technical hotline, I got 80 pct all the cases someone from India on the phone. sure, India has weaknesss, but everything is relative (says Albert Einstein).
> 
> Vietnam rise should not worry anyone. We are a peaceful country. Made in VN is in the making. Cheers!



Nothing to be proud of those toys that are either 2nd hand or assembled with imported parts. Not to be dismissed, but I don't think that qualify as a great military power. I am sure Vietnam can make them in due time. The way Vietnam is concentrating on economy 1st is great. No point having expensive toys but have people laughing at your country for open defecation because of no toilets. Just as the Chinese have problems with their quality control, the Indians are many times worse. So when buying made in India, caveat emptor.


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## Viet

sinait said:


> Nothing to be proud of those toys that are either 2nd hand or assembled with imported parts. Not to be dismissed, but I don't think that qualify as a great military power. I am sure Vietnam can make them in due time. The way Vietnam is concentrating on economy 1st is great. No point having expensive toys but have people laughing at your country for open defecation because of no toilets. Just as the Chinese have problems with their quality control, the Indians are many times worse. So when buying made in India, caveat emptor.


Ha ha ha the way you speak reveals you are a true Chinese from a true China. If it comes to India the toilet theme becomes a topic. How about if you acknowledge the contribution of Indian people in the establishing and prosperity of Singapore?

Like I said previously everything is relative, every country should find itself the right way to peace and progress. Things are much complicated and complex in Vietnam because we live next to a giant neighbor that is very hostile to Vietnam. All of the nations in East and Southeast Asia it is only China that makes us wary, other countries' militarilies are too weak and pose no challenge to Vietnam army.

Reinventing the wheel is always a bad thing. I feel no shame if copying from other and make it better.

Great you have trust to Vietnam economy. You are right it is just a matter of time until we catch up with richer countries.

Chinese quality is a big topic among Vietnamese.


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## sinait

Viet said:


> Ha ha ha the way you speak reveals you are a true Chinese from a true China. If it comes to India the toilet theme becomes a topic. How about if you acknowledge the contribution of Indian people in the establishing and prosperity of Singapore?
> 
> Like I said previously everything is relative, every country should find itself the right way to peace and progress. Things are much complicated and complex in Vietnam because we live next to a giant neighbor that is very hostile to Vietnam. All of the nations in East and Southeast Asia it is only China that makes us wary, other countries' militarilies are too weak and pose no challenge to Vietnam army.
> 
> Reinventing the wheel is always a bad thing. I feel no shame if copying from other and make it better.
> 
> Great you have trust to Vietnam economy. You are right it is just a matter of time until we catch up with richer countries.
> 
> Chinese quality is a big topic among Vietnamese.



Don't be surprised this open defecation thing is not a talking point just from the Chinese. The Pinoys also talk about it. I found this out only a few years back and not believing it until I confirmed it with my Indian friend who has a shop in Chennai. After that many people confirmed it as well. Don't you find it disgusting. 
No, Singapore don't depend on Indians for it's prosperity, we depend on all of us with the majority being Chinese. Anyway I am talking about the Indians from India. Our local Indians loathe them as well. I am not saying all of them are obnoxious and I am not talking about those southern Indians working in the factories. My friendly former neighbor is from Kerala but he went on to Australia, and my new Indian neighbor got this smell. He says the whole Common Corridor belongs to him(not joking). I don't like doing business with them either. They would bargain the price again after the job is done and ready for delivery. Of course they got lots of great people as well, like the doctor who did my heart operation, haha.
Vietnamese are industrious just like in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. So you are right that it's just a matter of time.
Some of these oversea Indians like to brag, claiming they help us to be rich. We were rich before they came. In fact there were a lot of unhappiness a few years back over having too many Indian foreign workers in Singapore, so called foreign talent. We don't mind a lower GDP with less foreign workers.


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## Viet

sinait said:


> Don't be surprised this open defecation thing is not a talking point just from the Chinese. The Pinoys also talk about it. I found this out only a few years back and not believing it until I confirmed it with my Indian friend who has a shop in Chennai. After that many people confirmed it as well. Don't you find it disgusting.
> No, Singapore don't depend on Indians for it's prosperity, we depend on all of us with the majority being Chinese. Anyway I am talking about the Indians from India. Our local Indians loathe them as well. I am not saying all of them are obnoxious and I am not talking about those southern Indians working in the factories. My friendly former neighbor is from Kerala but he went on to Australia, and my new Indian neighbor got this smell. He says the whole Common Corridor belongs to him(not joking). I don't like doing business with them either. They would bargain the price again after the job is done and ready for delivery. Of course they got lots of great people as well, like the doctor who did my heart operation, haha.
> Vietnamese are industrious just like in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore. So you are right that it's just a matter of time.
> Some of these oversea Indians like to brag, claiming they help us to be rich. We were rich before they came. In fact there were a lot of unhappiness a few years back over having too many Indian foreign workers in Singapore, so called foreign talent. We don't mind a lower GDP with less foreign workers.


India is surely a country of extremes. Rich and poor. But in military sphere India can help Vietnam by relieving pressure on the eastern flank.

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## Viet

*Air defense *

Vietnam improved fire control radar SNR-125-2TM. Specs: capable to detect flying objects 100 km far away with radar reflector size (RCS) as small as 0,02m2, following and guiding two missiles onto two different targets at any one time, radar response time 3 seconds, firing distance 40 km.
​

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## Aqsuperman

Elite Recon Battalion from the Capital Military District armed with XM177 rifle, i wonder where are those guns come from :v

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## sinait

Viet said:


> India is surely a country of extremes. Rich and poor. But in military sphere India can help Vietnam by relieving pressure on the eastern flank.


Not sure if Vietnam need India. Look how they abandon Mongolia when help is really needed. Also careful not to offend them, even if inadvertent, look at what happened to the Snapchat CEO. Singapore rely on the US to bring balance to the region. Of course big brother not too happy with Singapore, haha. Our great Lee Kuan Yew says there is the big fish, small fish, and we are scrimps size, to be eaten.
Why Vietnam letting Indonesia blow up their fishing boats without response? No protest.


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## Viet

sinait said:


> Not sure if Vietnam need India. Look how they abandon Mongolia when help is really needed. Also careful not to offend them, even if inadvertent, look at what happened to the Snapchat CEO. Singapore rely on the US to bring balance to the region. Of course big brother not too happy with Singapore, haha. Our great Lee Kuan Yew says there is the big fish, small fish, and we are scrimps size, to be eaten.
> Why Vietnam letting Indonesia blow up their fishing boats without response? No protest.


Lee Kuan Yew is a wise man without any doubt. I made the first visit to Singapore 20 years ago. my first impression is WOW! Great country! I have seen many countries in the world, from East to West, but I have never seen such a modern, clean, secure, prosperous city state like Singapore. every detail is perfect. nice people, nice food, nice weather. Vietnam can learn a lot from Singapore.

but in defence matter, we go our own way. there is no such big fish eating small fish in our eyes. we will fight until the bitter end and go down if the heaven has chosen so 

Mongolia?

Vietnam illegal fishing is a thing I myself feel annoyed. I hope such sadness disappears in time.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Lee Kuan Yew is a wise man without any doubt. I made the first visit to Singapore 20 years ago. my first impression is WOW! Great country! I have seen many countries in the world, from East to West, but I have never seen such a modern, clean, secure, prosperous city state like Singapore. every detail is perfect. nice people, nice food, nice weather. Vietnam can learn a lot from Singapore.
> 
> but in defence matter, we go our own way. there is no such big fish eating small fish in our eyes. we will fight until the bitter end and go down if the heaven has chosen so
> 
> Mongolia?
> 
> Vietnam illegal fishing is a thing I myself feel annoyed. I hope such sadness disappears in time.



No need to envy us. Its just unfortunate that your land has good location and attracted the French colonizers and later the US. If not for the reason that they became weakened by WW2, we may still be colonies. I think Vietnam has the requisites to be even better than Singapore. We were just like Vietnam 60 yrs ago though corruption is not that bad here. Singapore is too small and surrounded by jealous and unfriendly neighbors. We rather be in your position(without agent orange) and face China. Having Muslims all around you can be difficult.


Viet said:


> but in defence matter, we go our own way. there is no such big fish eating small fish in our eyes. we will fight until the bitter end and go down if the heaven has chosen so


Hopefully not. Can have win win outcomes if willing to compromise.
And you were saying this " Chinese quality is a big topic among Vietnamese".

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## Viet

sinait said:


> No need to envy us. Its just unfortunate that your land has good location and attracted the French colonizers and later the US. If not for the reason that they became weakened by WW2, we may still be colonies. I think Vietnam has the requisites to be even better than Singapore. We were just like Vietnam 60 yrs ago though corruption is not that bad here. Singapore is too small and surrounded by jealous and unfriendly neighbors. We rather be in your position(without agent orange) and face China. Having Muslims all around you can be difficult.
> 
> Hopefully not. Can have win win outcomes if willing to compromise.
> And you were saying this " Chinese quality is a big topic among Vietnamese".


The problem with the Vietnamese people is, we are smart but very stubborn. Vietnam is a society that generally seeks harmony but never bows down to injustice and aggression. Take the revolution leader Ho. He could negotiate with the French to lead an united Vietnam into a French led world, but like many leaders before him, he chose the blood and tear solution. Hopeless.


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## sinait

Viet said:


> The problem with the Vietnamese people is, we are smart but very stubborn. Vietnam is a society that generally seeks harmony but never bows down to injustice and aggression. Take the revolution leader Ho. He could negotiate with the French to lead an united Vietnam into a French led world, but like many leaders before him, he chose the blood and tear solution. Hopeless.


Maybe not stubborn, but pride. The desire to be independent is very strong. I think that is good in the long run but must be able to compromise whenever necessary. I think it is right to kick out the French. If the US didn't interfere, wonder what would have been the result.
(finally no more the New Recruit label)


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## jhungary

Aqsuperman said:


> Elite Recon Battalion from the Capital Military District armed with XM177 rifle, i wonder where are those guns come from :v



Those were Airforce XM-177 (Model 610 to be precise) AF XM-177 have a standard flash hinder rather than a long flash hinder. 

They are probably left over from the USAF transfer stock to South Vietnam Airforce, colt did not make de-modular M16 series rifle anymore. They have to be an old stock.

In fact, a lot of American collector are going after these as they are some of the Pre-Banned Automatic Rifle which can be legally own in the US, if Vietnamese Government ever try to get rid of these rifle, they can earn a lot of money selling to US Collector. But how you can import these rifle back to US is another problem

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## Viet

sinait said:


> Maybe not stubborn, but pride. The desire to be independent is very strong. I think that is good in the long run but must be able to compromise whenever necessary. I think it is right to kick out the French. If the US didn't interfere, wonder what would have been the result.
> (finally no more the New Recruit label)


Ok pride may be a better term. I think, too seeking a peaceful solution is better than leading a nation thru a valley of blood and tears. But sometimes there is no way out. To understand Vietnam you should understand their way of thinking. Here a video cut from a popular theatre piece, depicting the first Vietnamese rebellion led by the Trung sisters against the Han Chinese rule in the years 38-43.

Why the rebellion?

Vietnam back in the days was a province of Chinese empire, ruled by a central authority in China and local lords in Vietnam. All starts when the husband of Trung's elder sister was executed by the Han Chinese. The Chinese accused Trung's elder husband of committing treason. The Trung sisters vowed to revenge, utilizing the wide spred Vietnamese public anger against the Chinese rule. The ultimate goal: ending the Chinese rule and leading Vietnam out of slavery.

The Trung's were of noble families. They learned martial arts since childhood.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Ok pride may be a better term. I think, too seeking a peaceful solution is better than leading a nation thru a valley of blood and tears. But sometimes there is no way out. To understand Vietnam you should understand their way of thinking. Here a video cut from a popular theatre piece, depicting the first Vietnamese rebellion led by the Trung sisters against the Han Chinese rule in the years 38-43.
> 
> Why the rebellion?
> 
> Vietnam back in the days was a province of Chinese empire, ruled by a central authority in China and local lords in Vietnam. All starts when the husband of Trung's elder sister was executed by the Han Chinese. The Chinese accused Trung's elder husband of committing treason. The Trung sisters vowed to revenge, utilizing the wide spred Vietnamese public anger against the Chinese rule. The ultimate goal: ending the Chinese rule and leading Vietnam out of slavery.
> 
> The Trung's were of noble families. They learned martial arts since childhood.



The West have a lot of wars. Despite WW1, they reconciled and cooperated to subjugate the rest of the world. Asians must put their differences aside and focus on progress. It's not wise to get involved in India's geopolitics. See what they do in Sri Lanka, Nepal. Even Bangladesh whom they help liberate don't buy arms from India. I am surprised you are not aware of Vietnam's industrial progress. Welcome to the Asian Tigers Club. There will be a time for Made in Vietnam destroyer.
Sacrifice for the greater good is necessary. Sun Yat Sen chose mandarin to be the national language of China even though he is a Cantonese.


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## Viet

sinait said:


> The West have a lot of wars. Despite WW1, they reconciled and cooperated to subjugate the rest of the world. Asians must put their differences aside and focus on progress. It's not wise to get involved in India's geopolitics. See what they do in Sri Lanka, Nepal. Even Bangladesh whom they help liberate don't buy arms from India. I am surprised you are not aware of Vietnam's industrial progress. Welcome to the Asian Tigers Club. There will be a time for Made in Vietnam destroyer.
> Sacrifice for the greater good is necessary. Sun Yat Sen chose mandarin to be the national language of China even though he is a Cantonese.


we are always for cooperation with the Chinese. it is not that we seek confrontation. but cooperation should base on mutual respect and equality. however that is something China will never agree. or hardly agree. do you remember of what I told you recently about Chinese refugees that are now settled overall in SE Asia? we gave them shelter because we are convinced we do the right thing, and although we knew would have to bear the brunt of Chinese aggression.

Asia united is a long way to go. actually the Chinese have in their hands to make that happens. they have the people and the means. it is up to the Chinese if they want it or not. Vietnam will not stand in their way.

true I was a bit surprised of Vietnam's industrial progress. it is a good thing at first sign, but when I look closer to it, it is not as bright as it may seem. we still have a long way to go. India can help Vietnam to ease the Chinese military pressure on the eastern and northern flank. it is not wise to comment on India internal and external politics. not only it is out of scope.

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## Aqsuperman

Well, look like our Naval Police can use another ship or two so we will take it  The configuration of Hamilton class is ill-suit for direct warfare but more than enough for peace time patrolling. Another operator of this class of ship in the region is the Philippine but in that case they are belong to the Navy.

*US Coast Guard decommissions fourth Hamilton-class cutter*



US Coast Guard file photo of USCGC Morgenthau

* The U.S. Coast Guard is set to decommission its eighth high endurance cutter USCGC Morngethau during a ceremony at Base Honolulu, on Tuesday.*

The Hamilton-class cutter is being retired after nearly 50 years of service as part of the Coast Guard’s recapitalization efforts.

USCGC Morgenthau (WHEC 722), a 378-foot high endurance cutter, saw action in the Vietnam War, numerous major drug interdictions and law enforcement cases, and a variety of noteworthy rescues.

Commissioned March 10, 1969, Morgenthau was the eighth of 12 cutters in the class built by Avondale Shipyards in New Orleans.

The first three decommissioned Hamilton-class cutters were transferred to the Philippine Navy which commissioned the vessels as Gredorio Del Pilar frigates. USCGC Morgenthau is being transferred to Vietnam under the Foreign Assistance Act which allows the transfer of excess defense articles as a grant to friendly, foreign governments.

High endurance cutters are the largest cutters, aside from the three major icebreakers and national security cutters, ever built for the Coast Guard.

In 1977, Morgenthau became the first cutter to have women permanently assigned, which paved the way for numerous women to serve aboard Coast Guard cutters nationwide.

In the fall of 1996, Morgenthau was the first U.S. Coast Guard cutter to deploy to the Arabian Gulf. Participating in Operation Vigilant Sentinel, Morgenthau enforced Iraq’s compliance with United Nations sanctions.

Correction: This article initially stated that there was a possibility for the USCGC Morgenthau to be transferred to the Philippine Navy. Morgenthau is being transferred to Vietnam.

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## Viet

From Vietnam defense television: domestic companies acquire the technology and successfully produce 9M311 computer that controls Sosna-R ship based anti-aircraft gun/missile system. The fire control computer 9M311 usually costs $100,000 if purchased, designed to guide 8 anti aircraft missiles and a dual rapid firing gun AO-18KD system. The dual guns can spit 10,000 bullets a minute.

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## Viet

*Top Vietnamese diplomat in US to gauge new Trump administration*

By Dien Luong 
April 20, 2017 | 12:00 am GMT+7

_




The USS John S. McCain at Tien Sa Port in Da Nang, visiting as part of the seventh annual Naval Engagement Activity between the US Navy and the Vietnam People's Navy in October 2016. Photo by AFP/U.S. Embassy in Hanoi_

*Vnexpress *

Vietnam’s Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh begins his two-day visit to the U.S. on Thursday at a time when Hanoi is trying to deepen ties with Washington in the face of a tempestuous Trump presidency.

Minh, an American-trained seasoned diplomat, wrote on Twitter on Wednesday that the U.S. is “one of Vietnam's most important partners”. Minh will meet with his American counterpart Rex Tillerson during the visit.

Minh’s trip is set to pave the way for Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc to make his first visit to Washington since taking office last year. Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh is also planning to visit for security talks with U.S. defense officials in the next couple of months, according to Murray Hiebert, an expert on Southeast Asia at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Last December, President Trump spoke to Prime Minister Phuc by phone and expressed a desire to strengthen the warming ties between the two countries. In late February, Trump sent a letter to President Tran Dai Quang suggesting he was interested in promoting bilateral cooperation.

Vietnam is Southeast Asia’s biggest exporter to the U.S., and Trump’s withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a mammoth U.S.-led trade deal whose 12 members make up nearly 40 percent of global GDP, was viewed as a major setback for Vietnam's economy.

By immediately pulling the plug on the TPP after taking office, Trump has undone the signature policy of his predecessor Barack Obama, who received a boisterous rock-star welcome during his three-day visit to Vietnam last May.

However, "Vietnamese officials have wasted little time trying to connect with the new U.S. president and pitching Vietnam’s role as one of the United States’ most reliable partners in Southeast Asia, and in dealing with disputes in the South China Sea," Hiebert said.

Tensions over the flashpoint South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea, have pitted Beijing against its smaller neighbors in Southeast Asia, including Vietnam.

Minh’s visit to Washington comes on the heels of his trip to China, which wrapped up on Tuesday. During the visit, Beijing and Hanoi pledged to strengthen bilateral relations through pragmatic cooperation.

The timing of these visits is in line with Vietnam’s long-standing strategy to stabilize ties with Beijing whenever possible, analysts say.

“It is a long-standing tradition that senior Vietnamese officials travel to Beijing before coming to the U.S. Vietnam wants to assure China that it’s not abandoning its deep ties with Beijing,” Hiebert told _VnExpress International._

“The same thing happened just before Communist Party Chief Nguyen Phu Trong visited Washington in 2015,” he said.

Meanwhile, Vietnam has continued to host high-level meetings with counterparts from Japan, India and the U.S.

“It is clearly sending a message that Hanoi is preparing for a return of tensions with China even as it seeks to improve relations during the current period of relative stability,” Gregory Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said

More quietly, two weeks ago, Vietnamese ambassador to the U.S. Pham Quang Vinh made a historic trip to the West Point, becoming Vietnam's first-ever diplomat to call on America’s premier military academy.

To many analysts, that visit was largely symbolic. But in diplomacy, that matters.

"It demonstrates that Vietnam is continuing to explore deepening ties with the U.S., even under the new administration, at all levels of society,” Hiebert said.

“Yes, it shows that Vietnam wants to continue military ties with the U.S. in the face of China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea.”

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## Viet

Vietnam Helicopter Corp has placed an order for two Bell Helicopter 505 Jet Ranger X light singles for search & rescue mission. Maybe good for military missions too.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/rotorcraft-vietnam-operator-buys-two-bell-505s-436361/

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## Viet

In the series of Vietnamese in exile

*South Africa *

South Africa's Honorary Consul Đỗ Thị Kim Liên (left) donates on behalf of Vietnamese friendship club 5 houses worth $15,418 to social welfare beneficiaries of Navy personnel. Liên says South Africa has high demand for Vietnamese goods and is rich of natural resources, which can be exported in large amounts fueling Vietnam economic growth. She expects bilateral trades will double this year.

Great

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## Viet

US Vice President Mike Pence told reporters in Jakarta, his boss Donald Trump will attend the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Vietnam scheduled in November this year.

http://thehill.com/policy/international/asia-pacific/329658-pence-trump-to-visit-philippines-Vietnam


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## Svantana

*US Approves Transfer of Hamilton Class Large Patrol Ship to Vietnam*






US Coast Guard ship USCGC Morgenthau (WHEC 722) has withdrawn from service and will be transferred to Vietnam.

The information was published by the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) in its April 13, 2017 report, posted on its official website.

Specifically, the USCGC Morgenthau Coast Guard (WHEC 722) has just been withdrawn from the US Coast Guard, which will be transferred to Vietnam under the Excess Defense Articles (EDA) program.

Vietnam has proposed to buy three US patrol boats, however the figure passed is only one, which was approved on October 3, 2016.

The Hamilton-based USCGC Morgenthau (WHEC 722) patrol boat was built at the Avondale Plant, which was officially established on March 10, 1969, and has just retired on April 18,

The ship has a full load stretch of 3,250 tons; Length 115 m; Width 13 m; Draft of 4.6 m; 160 crew members (20 officers, 140 crew members); USCGC Morgenthau's home port in Honolulu, Hawaii.

The WHEC 722 is equipped with a combination of two diesel engines and two gas turbine engines for a top speed of 29 knots (53.7 km / h), a range of 14,000 nautical miles (22,531 Km), 45 days continuous seeding time.

Weapon equipment of the WHEC 722 includes the AN / SPS-40 airborne surveillance radar, the 76.2 mm Oto Breda main gun, the 20 mm Phalanx CIWS close-in defense system, the 25 mm Bushmaster M242 automatic gun and 12.7 mm M2 Browning heavy machine gun and a 7.62 mm M240 light hun.

Based on the precedents of the Hamilton ships shipped to the US Navy by the United States, the equipment may be removed prior to transfer.

However, if everything goes well, USCGC Morgenthau will still be very useful to Vietnam as it is a large vessel with wide range of activities and long seas, This is important for our ability to enforce maritime law.

http://defense-studies.blogspot.co.id/2017/04/us-approves-transfer-of-hamilton-class.html
http://soha.vn/dsca-my-chap-thuan-c...p-hamilton-cho-viet-nam-20170419095424478.htm

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## Satria Manggala

Military Cooperation with TNI at Cilangkap, Jakarta






https://www.beritalima.com/2017/04/20/kapuskersin-tni-vpa-tingkatkan-kerja-sama-militer/


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## GrandWorldOrder

I wonder if Vietnam will try and fit its home produced weaponry (such as missiles and CIWS) on to the new Hamilton cutter it's receiving.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> US Vice President Mike Pence told reporters in Jakarta, his boss Donald Trump will attend the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Vietnam scheduled in November this year.
> 
> http://thehill.com/policy/international/asia-pacific/329658-pence-trump-to-visit-philippines-Vietnam



Viet oi, would you be interested in posting the text of this article? It looks interesting, but I'm traveling in China and the site is blocked: http://www.economist.com/news/asia/...-uses-old-naval-base-make-new-friends?ref=yfp

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## Viet

*Vietnam uses an old naval base to make new friends*
Cam Ranh Bay is welcoming American warships again





* Print edition | Asia*
Apr 20th 2017| CAM RANH BAY


NEAR the point where Vietnam bulges deepest into the South China Sea lies Cam Ranh Bay, perhaps the finest natural deepwater harbour in South-East Asia. France based a fleet there in colonial times. Russian ships made use of it in the Russo-Japanese war, Japanese ones during the second world war and American ones during the Vietnam war.

After the American withdrawal and communist triumph, the government of the newly reunited Vietnam leased the naval base to the Soviet Union. Russia gave up the facility in 2002. Today it is Russian tourists who flock to Cam Ranh International Airport, with its American-built airstrip, on their way to the beaches of nearby Nha Trang.

These days Vietnam ostensibly follows a policy of “Three Nos”: no military alliances, no foreign bases and no joining with another country to fight a third. Nonetheless, adjacent to the Vietnamese naval base at Cam Ranh is a facility that receives foreign military vessels. In theory it is a purely commercial venture, open to the ships of any country willing to pay for the maintenance and refuelling it provides. But it also serves a strategic purpose: sending a defiant message to a resurgent and expansionist China by allowing Vietnam to strengthen military ties with an increasingly diverse group of countries.

Anti-Chinese sentiment runs deep among ordinary Vietnamese. Vietnam fought wars against both America and China in the 1970s. But these days Americans, by and large, are received with affection, whereas many Vietnamese remain convinced that China still has territorial designs on their country.

In 2014 China sent an oil rig to a disputed part of the South China Sea, sparking anti-Chinese riots in Vietnam. Since then both sides have been careful not to stoke tensions. China has called off the drilling; Vietnam has made mollifying noises about solving disputes bilaterally, as China prefers. But for Vietnam, the underlying problem is unchanged: how does a small, poor country defend itself against a bigger, richer one?

The Philippines, under Rodrigo Duterte, has pioneered one approach: apparent capitulation. In exchange for massive investment in infrastructure, Mr Duterte has decided not to press China over their territorial dispute. Vietnam, using Cam Ranh Bay, is trying something else: diversification. Since the foreign-vessel facility opened a year ago, it has received 19 ships from 10 countries. China and America tie for the most visits, at three each. But every other visit save one has come from countries that have shown some form of opposition to China’s expansive maritime claims, including France and Japan. Vietnam appears to be reminding China of just how many friends and suitors it has—and just how well it can look after their warships.

This article appeared in the Asia section of the print edition under the headline "Dock and cover"

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## Viet

GrandWorldOrder said:


> I wonder if Vietnam will try and fit its home produced weaponry (such as missiles and CIWS) on to the new Hamilton cutter it's receiving.


since the confrontation with the Chinese at sea (oil rig crisis) all Vietnam patrol vessels are armed by light and heavy rapid fire machine guns. so I expect the new US made ship will be no exception. all are no warships, so no missiles no CIWS. interesting: the US Hamilton-class will be the largest vessel for the Coast Guard.






more interesting is if we can copy the ship design, improve with stealth, speed and survivability and convert it to a frigate or destroyer. once done, we can install missiles, CIWS and other lethal means, including Vietnam made weapons. I think 2 squadrons frigate/destroyer a 6 pieces each would be suffient for our needs to confront our biggest threat at sea right now: the Chinese surface fleets.

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## GrandWorldOrder

Oh, so the ship wont be used by the navy? Interesting. Our American news networks never specified that the ship was being given to the Vietnamese coast guard, just the country itself. I assumed it was going to be used by the navy in a similiar fashion to what the Filipinos are doing with their Hamilton cutters (classified as frigates).


Off topic, I've been up near a Hamilton before. If that's going to be the largest ship in the coast guard, than damn...the Hamilton's are not that impressive when you see them in person. Then again, I live in San Diego where the huge American naval base and shipyards are, so I'm constantly seeing new large warships being made.

I dont think copying the ship design is beneficial - the Hamilton cutters are so old they even engaged during the civil war. It would be interesting to see them reverse engineer some technology though.

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## Carlosa

*Trump invites Vietnam's prime minister to visit US*
By Reuters/My Pham April 21, 2017 | 02:13 pm GMT+7





US President Donald Trump holds a news conference at the White House. Photo by Reuters/Aaron P. Bernstein
*The two governments have expressed desire to further promote ties and strengthen their relationship since Trump's election win last November. *
U.S. President Donald Trump has invited Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc to visit the United States, Vietnamese government said on its website on Friday.

Vietnam took ties with the U.S. to a new level under former President Barack Obama, keen for the U.S. to maintain its security presence in Asia in the face of territorial claims by giant neighbour China.

The two governments have expressed desire to further promote ties and strengthen their relationship since Trump's election win last November.

U.S. national security adviser H.R. McMaster has delivered a letter of invitation from Trump to Vietnam's Deputy Prime Minister Pham Binh Minh, now on a visit to the U.S., the government added.

Last month, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc also said he was ready to visit the U.S. to promote ties between the two countries.

Trump will attend the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Vietnam in November.

Vietnam had been one of the top potential beneficiaries of the Trans Pacific Partnership free trade agreement canceled by Trump, but it has also been building links to the U.S. amid a maritime dispute with China.

China claims most of the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea, while Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam claim parts of the sea, which commands strategic sea lanes and has rich fishing grounds, along with oil and gas deposits.

Washington lifted a U.S. lethal arms embargo on Vietnam last May, allowing closer defense links and some joint military exercises.



GrandWorldOrder said:


> Oh, so the ship wont be used by the navy? Interesting. Our American news networks never specified that the ship was being given to the Vietnamese coast guard, just the country itself. I assumed it was going to be used by the navy in a similiar fashion to what the Filipinos are doing with their Hamilton cutters (classified as frigates).
> 
> 
> Off topic, I've been up near a Hamilton before. If that's going to be the largest ship in the coast guard, than damn...the Hamilton's are not that impressive when you see them in person. Then again, I live in San Diego where the huge American naval base and shipyards are, so I'm constantly seeing new large warships being made.
> 
> I dont think copying the ship design is beneficial - the Hamilton cutters are so old they even engaged during the civil war. It would be interesting to see them reverse engineer some technology though.



Definitely for the coast guard. The ship will probably be refitted with water hoses and other toys that can be useful to play water games with the chinese. The fact that is large is actually the most important element for Vietnam since they only have a few large ships and they are only 90 meters long so at 115 m long, the Hamilton will be very useful when it comes to ramming chinese ships.

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## Viet

GrandWorldOrder said:


> Oh, so the ship wont be used by the navy? Interesting. Our American news networks never specified that the ship was being given to the Vietnamese coast guard, just the country itself. I assumed it was going to be used by the navy in a similiar fashion to what the Filipinos are doing with their Hamilton cutters (classified as frigates).
> 
> 
> Off topic, I've been up near a Hamilton before. If that's going to be the largest ship in the coast guard, than damn...the Hamilton's are not that impressive when you see them in person. Then again, I live in San Diego where the huge American naval base and shipyards are, so I'm constantly seeing new large warships being made.
> 
> I dont think copying the ship design is beneficial - the Hamilton cutters are so old they even engaged during the civil war. It would be interesting to see them reverse engineer some technology though.


I have been to San Diego some time ago. Very nice city with a sizeable ethnic vietnamese population.

Reverse engineering the Hamilton is a way to go. Vietnam warship building industry is very weak. The number of surface combat ships is very limited. Considering the threat we are facing right now the situation for Vietnam is very precarious. we can produce 510 ton missile guided Molniya class corvette in license, but can't build frigate nor destroyer. Foreign assistance is necessary if not a wonder to build a powerful naval force with Vietnam made frigates and destroyers. We can't do alone I am afraid.


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## Aqsuperman

GrandWorldOrder said:


> Oh, so the ship wont be used by the navy? Interesting. Our American news networks never specified that the ship was being given to the Vietnamese coast guard, just the country itself. I assumed it was going to be used by the navy in a similiar fashion to what the Filipinos are doing with their Hamilton cutters (classified as frigates).
> 
> 
> Off topic, I've been up near a Hamilton before. If that's going to be the largest ship in the coast guard, than damn...the Hamilton's are not that impressive when you see them in person. Then again, I live in San Diego where the huge American naval base and shipyards are, so I'm constantly seeing new large warships being made.
> 
> I dont think copying the ship design is beneficial - the Hamilton cutters are so old they even engaged during the civil war. It would be interesting to see them reverse engineer some technology though.



Well the Philippine Navy didnt have a lot of ship, in fact i think their navy is pretty much a Coast Guard service at best, and that is why the Hamilton is pressed into service of the military. In the Vietnam case, we already have missile armed ships so why take in a 3000 tons ship that only got firepower of a gunboat ? So the only logical choice is to give them to the Coast Guard after adding some modifications to better suit the environment and conditions here.



Viet said:


> Reverse engineering the Hamilton is a way to go. Vietnam warship building industry is very weak. The number of surface combat ships is very limited. Considering the threat we are facing right now the situation for Vietnam is very precarious. we can produce 510 ton missile guided Molniya class corvette in license, but can't build frigate nor destroyer. Foreign assistance is necessary if not a wonder to build a powerful naval force with Vietnam made frigates and destroyers. We can't do alone I am afraid.



In my opinion, this is probably more of a political gesture than a military transaction. We should spend our money on the DN4000 project with modern specs than concentrating resource on a outdated hull ( This ship was deployed since the 70s, i think )

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> In my opinion, this is probably more of a political gesture than a military transaction. We should spend our money on the DN4000 project with modern specs than concentrating resource on a outdated hull ( This ship was deployed since the 70s, i think )


it is better than nothing. and most importantly the US now officially considers Vietnam as a friendly nation. any idea when the 4,000 ton come to life? it must be twice bigger than the current 2,000+ ton.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I have been to San Diego some time ago. Very nice city with a sizeable ethnic vietnamese population.
> 
> Reverse engineering the Hamilton is a way to go. Vietnam warship building industry is very weak. The number of surface combat ships is very limited. Considering the threat we are facing right now the situation for Vietnam is very precarious. we can produce 510 ton missile guided Molniya class corvette in license, but can't build frigate nor destroyer. Foreign assistance is necessary if not a wonder to build a powerful naval force with Vietnam made frigates and destroyers. We can't do alone I am afraid.



Actually, depends on how Vietnam want to use the ship, Hamilton Class cutter can be use as anti-ship frigate role with CIWS and Quad pack Harpoon OTS Missile






USCGS Mellon with 8 Harpoon Launcher on foredeck 

The USCG have ran some experiment on the Hamilton Class cutter in the 90s. Hamilton Class cutter offer a very rigid hull with strong bulkhead space, and it can be adapted into firing missile on their deck.

Of course I would not imagine the Vietnamese to put Harpoon on it but if the Vietnamese Navy is creative, they can, and the ship will have space to put offensive weaponry on it. Subject to upgrade cost.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> Actually, depends on how Vietnam want to use the ship, Hamilton Class cutter can be use as anti-ship frigate role with CIWS and Quad pack Harpoon OTS Missile
> 
> View attachment 392112
> 
> 
> USCGS Mellon with 8 Harpoon Launcher on foredeck
> 
> The USCG have ran some experiment on the Hamilton Class cutter in the 90s. Hamilton Class cutter offer a very rigid hull with strong bulkhead space, and it can be adapted into firing missile on their deck.
> 
> Of course I would not imagine the Vietnamese to put Harpoon on it but if the Vietnamese Navy is creative, they can, and the ship will have space to put offensive weaponry on it. Subject to upgrade cost.



Very true, here is a picture of what the PH Navy had considered for the Hamilton as a fully armed frigate:

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Actually, depends on how Vietnam want to use the ship, Hamilton Class cutter can be use as anti-ship frigate role with CIWS and Quad pack Harpoon OTS Missile
> 
> View attachment 392112
> 
> 
> USCGS Mellon with 8 Harpoon Launcher on foredeck
> 
> The USCG have ran some experiment on the Hamilton Class cutter in the 90s. Hamilton Class cutter offer a very rigid hull with strong bulkhead space, and it can be adapted into firing missile on their deck.
> 
> Of course I would not imagine the Vietnamese to put Harpoon on it but if the Vietnamese Navy is creative, they can, and the ship will have space to put offensive weaponry on it. Subject to upgrade cost.


It's not worth to do all of the possible efforts. It is just a ship. Yes why not We can put Kh-35 antiship missiles on it if every ship matters.


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## Viet

*Washington *

Vietnam FM Minh meets US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and other members of the US government. It is remarkable to note that both sides have come together in very early stage, in the first year, in contrast to former US administrations. Minh is informed of the visit of Donald Trump to Vietnam and the invitation to Vietnam PM to the White House.





*
New Zealand *

To go or not to go? New Zealand with the backing of Australia and Singapore wants TPP to go ahead with Japan as leader after the US withdraws from the pact. From the news Japan appears willing to lead the group. The question is whether or not Vietnam and Malaysia will accept Japanese leadership role. I think we are ok with Japan but will demand additional benefits. The 11 trade ministers of the bloc will meet in Hanoi in May and expectedly make the decision.




JOHN HAWKINS/FAIRFAX NZ New Zealand's Trade Minister Todd McClay

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## Aqsuperman

The usage and storage of US-made equipment in the VPA

The large stockpile of captured ARVN equipment and ammunition in 1975 remain in service up to today even after 2 more wars. 

























And ammo for them seem never to run out :v

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> The usage and storage of US-made equipment in the VPA
> 
> The large stockpile of captured ARVN equipment and ammunition in 1975 remain in service up to today even after 2 more wars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And ammo for them seem never to run out :v


No wonder the southern republican army was one of the best equipped armies in the world. Too bad: their fighting quality sucks. The Yankees will be surprised to see these pictures.

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## Carlosa

*Official: Vietnam Can Reach 400-Million People Market via Iran*

http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13960202000888






TEHRAN (FNA)- Head of Iran Chamber of Commerce, Industries, Mines and Agriculture Gholamhossein Shafeyee underlined that Tehran can be a short and secure way for Hanoi to have access to a market with a population of 400 million.
"Iran can be a safe gateway for Vietnam to reach the Economic Cooperation Organization (ECO), the Central Asia region, Caucasus, Afghanistan and Iraq," Shafeyee said in a meeting with Chairman of People's Committee in Ho Chi Minh City Nguyen Thành Phong.

He also said that Vietnam can be a gateway for Iran to enter the world’s fifth-largest economic bloc that is the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

In relevant remarks on Thursday, Vietnamese President Trần Đại Quang called on his country's banks to broaden mutual cooperation with Iran in the fields of trade and banking.

"I welcome the expansion of relations between the Iranian and Vietnamese businessmen while urging the Vietnamese banks to initiate the relations with the Iranian banks," the Vietnamese president said in a meeting with Shafeyee in Hanoi.

The Vietnamese president pointed to close relations between Hanoi and Tehran, and said, "We witnessed two good incidents last year; a visit by former Vietnamese President Trương Tấn Sang to Iran and President Rouhani’s visit to Vietnam both of which led to closer relations between the two countries."

Iran can supply export products such as petrochemicals, bitumen, polymers, base oils, building materials and minerals to Vietnam.

Vietnam’s main exported products are footwear, textile and garment, fruits, rubber, coffee, rice, pepper, whereas Iran could provide Vietnam with energy sources.

The presidents of the two countries agreed last year to boost bilateral trade to a level of $2 billion by 2021.

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## Viet

Encounter at high sea


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## Viet

Frogmen


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## Viet

*Mig-21*

Probably the most reliable, longevity and successful fighter jet in history: the legendary supersonic jet Mig-21. From the hundreds of Mig-21 jets, North Vietnam received during the war, it is speculated, Vietnam still have several Mig-21 squadrons stored as reserves in underground bunkers. Armed by antiship missiles the Mig-21 can play the role of a naval fighter, posing serious threat to enemy surface ships.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam, China hold first fishery patrol in 2017*

VNA FRIDAY, APRIL 21, 2017 

http://en.vietnamplus.vn/vietnam-china-hold-first-fishery-patrol-in-2017/110605.vnp




Ships coded 8004 of the Vietnam Coast Guard in the patrol (Source: http://www.qdnd.vn)
*Hanoi (VNA) *- The coast guards of Vietnam and China conducted a joint fishery patrol on shared fishing grounds in the Tonkin Gulf from April 18-20, Quan doi Nhan dan (People’s Army) daily reported. 

Ships coded 8003 and 8004 of the Vietnam Coast Guard joined Chinese ships coded 3301 and 3304 in the first patrol this year.

The Vietnamese and Chinese sides were led by Colonel Tran Van Tho, Deputy Commander and Chief of the Staff of the Coast Guard High Command Region 1 under the Vietnam Coast Guard, and Liu Tianrong, Deputy Head of the China Coast Guard’s Nanhai bureau.

They examined fishing boats working across nine locations in the countries’ shared fishing grounds.

Vietnam and China have held annual joint coast guard patrols since 2006, with this patrol the 13th. The activity aims to show that the Agreement on Fishery Cooperation in the Tonkin Gulf signed between the two sides in 2000 is an economic and technical agreement based on respect for sovereignty, sovereignty rights and jurisdiction of each nation. 

The patrols reinforce relations and friendship between the two countries’ people. 

The patrols also help enhance the efficiency of coordination in implementing an agreement on joint patrols with China, thus preserving and sustainably exploiting maritime resources in the shared fishing grounds. 

In the framework of the patrol, the two coast guard forces met and joined exchange activities to share experience in monitoring fishing boats, search and rescue, protecting the maritime environment, ensuring safety of navigation, security and fishing. 

They also informed violations of their countries’ fishing ships, and disseminated legal regulations to fishermen, aiming to promote economic development and safeguarde sea and island sovereignty.-VNA


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## Viet

New in service: radar (k8-60) supported anti aircraft gun caliber 57mm















The army looks for a suitable transport aircraft for paratroopers.

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## Viet

*Cambodia*

He is the second most prominent politician in Cambodia besides Hun Sen and the most hater of everything vietnamese: Cambodian opposition leader of National Rescue Party (CNRP) Sam Rainsy. He never misses a chance to bash Vietnam and create hatred. Now a Cambodia court has sentenced him to 5 years in prison over a Facebook posting that raised questions about the validity of Cambodia's border treaty with Vietnam. He avoids the sentence by fleeing to France. The chance now is greater that Hun Sen will win the general election next year. Good for Vietnam 







*Iran*

In respect to America, the country has one thing in common with Vietnam: suffering decades of hostility and sanction by the US. However while Vietnam moves on, Iran appears sticking to anti Americanism as if it belongs to national identity. This week the Chairman of Chamber of Commerce of Iran Gholam Hossein Shafei visits Hanoi for business. The trade is still modest, but Iran probably holds the most economic potential in the region. I think it is too early to talk on Iran nuclear program. We should center on oil and gas 







*South Korea *

Who blinks first? A scenario like the Cuba missile crisis but now in East Asia. Luckily we are far away. RoK's parliament speaker Chung Sye-kyun leads a high-level delegation for a 3 day visit to Vietnam. South Korea relationship to China is in free fall.

_



_

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## Viet

Vietnam mobile coastal defense











On patrol















According to Greygory Antsev at the expo LIMA-2017, Vietnam shows interest of Zelenodolsk shipyard's frigate class 22160 equipped with 2x Klub-K compact missile complex. The most powerful missile on the planet is a good stuff. the Kilo attack submarines have already these missiles onboard.















Vietnam asks the US for more big ships. The delivery of the first 3,250 ton Hamilton class should be just the beginning.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Armed by antiship missiles the Mig-21 can play the role of a naval fighter, posing serious threat to enemy surface ships.


A typical post from our friend Viet, full of best wishes, but few consideration on reality.

The born limits of Mig-21/J-7, incl. short range, small load capacity, limited nose space for radar installation, etc., all make *Mig-21/J-7 an unqualified platform for antiship missile*. Otherwise, China, as the country with the largest active Mig-21/J7 fleet (China's last J7 production line was even operated till 2013, for exports to Bangladesh), will never bother to develop and build* JH7, a dedicated ASM platform for PLA Navy.*

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> A typical post from our friend Viet, full of best wishes, but few consideration on reality.
> 
> The born limits of Mig-21/J-7, incl. short range, small load capacity, limited nose space for radar installation, etc., all make *Mig-21/J-7 an unqualified platform for antiship missile*. Otherwise, China, as the country with the largest active Mig-21/J7 fleet (China's last J7 production line was even operated till 2013, for exports to Bangladesh), will never bother to develop and build* JH7, a dedicated ASM platform for PLA Navy.*
> 
> View attachment 392579


Mig-21 can carry rbs15 antiship missiles.

Apropos chinese made Mig21, is it true, although communist China produces over 2,000 J7 jets, but she never handles a single jet to communist brother Vietnam to assist the war effort?


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Mig-21 can carry rbs15 antiship missiles.


mind to share pictures of VN Mig-21 to carry and fire the ASM missile?



Viet said:


> , but she never handles a single jet to communist brother Vietnam to assist the war effort?


You mean J6s(Mig-19) operated by VPAF are made by Vietnam on its own? 

Regarding Mig-21/J-7, although it looks quite primitive today, it was too advanced to China during 1960s' and 1970s'. We mastered all Mig-21 technologies till early 1980s'.

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## GrandWorldOrder

Viet said:


> Mig-21 can carry rbs15 antiship missiles.
> 
> Apropos chinese made Mig21, is it true, although communist China produces over 2,000 J7 jets, but she never handles a single jet to communist brother Vietnam to assist the war effort?


Weren't all the Vietnamese MiG-21s already retired from service? With more modern fighters I highly doubt theres a need to use the MiG-21.

The Chinese did supply jets to Vietnam, though not a lot. To my understanding, there was a single unit operating the Shenyang J-6, itself a copy of the Russian MiG-19.


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## Viet

GrandWorldOrder said:


> Weren't all the Vietnamese MiG-21s already retired from service? With more modern fighters I highly doubt theres a need to use the MiG-21.
> 
> The Chinese did supply jets to Vietnam, though not a lot. To my understanding, there was a single unit operating the Shenyang J-6, itself a copy of the Russian MiG-19.


officially yes, all Mig21s are retired. but I do see pictures of Mig21 jets in underground bunkers. Vietnam is well-known for keeping things for centuries. you know Vietnam army still has old tanks such as T34 that were probably been deployed in the battle of Kursk in the WWII, so Mig21 can be considered as freshman and can be used for another 30 years without problems.


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> mind to share pictures of VN Mig-21 to carry and fire the ASM missile?
> 
> 
> You mean J6s(Mig-19) operated by VPAF are made by Vietnam on its own?
> 
> Regarding Mig-21/J-7, although it looks quite primitive today, it was too advanced to China during 1960s' and 1970s'. We mastered all Mig-21 technologies till early 1980s'.


I said Mig21 "can" carry antiship missiles. Have I said Vietnam has rbs15 for the Mig21? I think acquiring the missile should not be a problem considering the US has lifted arms embargo.

Have you any figure how many Mig-19 were delivered?


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## Nike

GS Zhou said:


> mind to share pictures of VN Mig-21 to carry and fire the ASM missile?
> 
> 
> You mean J6s(Mig-19) operated by VPAF are made by Vietnam on its own?
> 
> Regarding Mig-21/J-7, although it looks quite primitive today, it was too advanced to China during 1960s' and 1970s'. We mastered all Mig-21 technologies till early 1980s'.



i am agree with u

Mig 21 payloads is too small, they even cant carry meaningful number of AAM (only 4 in some advanced variants)

Meanwhile the claims of Mig 21 can carry RBS15 is hilarrious and outright jokes. The max payload of Mig 21 for ground attack config is 2X500 kg bombs on each pylon wings.

Meanwhile the weight of RBS 15 is around 800 kg, and there is no place to put those weight in Mig 21 config. Not to mention of rack launcher, integration system and commands


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> i am agree with u
> 
> Mig 21 payloads is too small, they even cant carry meaningful number of AAM (only 4 in some advanced variants)
> 
> Meanwhile the claims of Mig 21 can carry RBS15 is hilarrious and outright jokes. The max payload of Mig 21 for ground attack config is 2X500 kg bombs on each pylon wings.
> 
> Meanwhile the weight of RBS 15 is around 800 kg, and there is no place to put those weight in Mig 21 config. Not to mention of rack launcher, integration system and commands


Sis mad ok I hate to say but you are right. Just re-read the post that is made by someone. The missile is too heavy for the Mig21 fighter. Maybe it is best if the jet keeps the same role as seen during the Vietnam war: supersonic interceptor and attacker in ambush.


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## Viet

New mission computer for Vietnam Su30 bombers, calculating the best way to avoid enemy air defense

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I said Mig21 "can" carry antiship missiles. Have I said Vietnam has rbs15 for the Mig21?


that's exactly what I said in my previous response to you. A typical feature of your post: full of best wishes, but few considerations on reality or feasibility.

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## Aqsuperman

Military pioneer in a de-mining mission. Here is what look like a Mk82 bomb


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> that's exactly what I said in my previous response to you. A typical feature of your post: full of best wishes, but few considerations on reality or feasibility.


Relax man Of course I have all best wishes for my country like you yours regardless of consideration and feasibility. Sending from here all best wishes to China first homemade aircraft carrier.


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## Viet

Has someone seen the movie film *"The perfect storm"* by Wolfgang Petersen?

The man midst of a perfect storm: Hwang Kyo-ahn, in the role as acting RoK president after the impeachment of Park Geun-hye. South Korea probably is the best example for university students to learn how a country deals with a double threat: NoK missile and China economic threats. Vietnam appoints _Nguyen Vu Tu _as the new Vietnam ambassador to RoK. Not much know about Tu, but I think he is a man that can deal with the escalating crisis. Kyo-ahn urges Vietnam to massively increase the bilateral trades to $100 billion by 2020. a figure, unimaginable few years ago, much higher than previously agreed last year. RoK obviously wants to compensate a large part of the losses incurred by China´s economic sanctions.

Good luck

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## Viet

More great pictures of the 105 mm gun truck. The verhicle armor may need to be strengthened.

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## Viet

RoK parliament speaker _Chung Sye-kyun_ in Vietnam capital for political and economic consultation


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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> View attachment 393058
> 
> 
> @Carlosa , below are the pictures of the China domestically-built carrier, the one that you laugh at for the so-called slow building progress, which you believe is even much lagging behind of the Indian one. Although I don't understand why a Spanish (self-claimed) that working in Vietnam could feel proud of an Indian carrier.
> 
> BTW, for this new Chinese carrier, the construction work inside the dry dock was started in Mar. 2015, and it gets launched in Apr. 2017. I.e. two years only. So be prepared to see more to come.
> 
> View attachment 393059
> 
> 
> View attachment 393060
> 
> 
> View attachment 393061



Yeah, in the end it came out faster, China certainly did a good job on that, but still, my points were ok, you can't dismiss the Indian naval build up.

Plenty of issues with India as we all know and also plenty of things to feel proud about them. I have my own reasons to like them and I have direct experience with them also since I've been to India and I had Indian friends.

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## Viet

*Ammunition *

Producing bullet is not a piece of cake. It is a difficult process required as much as 59 manufacturing steps. The bullet hull alone needs to go thru 43 processes. The 800 ha large ammunition factory z113 produces ammunition for the army, with different kinds of calibers from k51, k53, k56 to k59 including 7.62x51mm bullet for M14 rifle deployed by the US Marine Corps. Should the US army run out of ammunition they can ask Vietnam for resupply, although I think we need to scale up the production and automatic the process a bit

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## Viet

Foreign Minister Phạm Bình Minh on a visit to Washington, holding meetings with US Acting Trade Representative Stephen Vaughn and members of Congress. not too bad: last year the US-Vietnam trades have reached a new height with more than $52 billion ($32 billion trade surplus for VN). the new Q1 looks promising, 10% plus. should the trend continue US-VN trade will reach $100 billion by 2020. the figure will rise higher if America and Vietnam close a bilateral trade deal. Cheers.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5520.html










US Military Academy West Point

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## Nilgiri

@The Eagle 

When i make post even remotely like #9830 elsewhere, it gets deleted (off-topic etc).

This one has nothing to do with Vietnam defence, please delete/move it.

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## The Eagle

Nilgiri said:


> @The Eagle
> 
> When i make post even remotely like #9830 elsewhere, it gets deleted (off-topic etc).
> 
> This one has nothing to do with Vietnam defence, please delete/move it.



As always said report such posts along with proper reason and move on. Mods will take care of the same.


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## jhungary

It was ANZAC Day 2 days ago and a lot of Australian Vet fought in Vietnam make news recently

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-...by-south-arm-rsl-brings-back-memories/8458544

Vietnam War-era military vehicle secured by South Arm RSL brings back memories for veterans

Tracing the cool metal exterior of a 1965 armoured personnel carrier (APC) sitting on display in Tasmania's south, former soldier Stan Hanuszewicz said he could still remember the "thud, thud, thud" of bullet rounds hitting the outside of a vehicle similar to this one.

The 10 tonne APC was purchased by the South Arm RSL sub branch for $7,000 and shipped to Tasmania's South Arm Memorial Park for $5,000 on Thursday.



* Photo:* Sergeant Stan Hanuszewicz received the South Vietnamese Gallantry Cross with Bronze Star in 1971. (Supplied: Australian War Memorial ID P08614.006) 


A crane was used to lift the heavy combat machinery into place where it will remain on permanent display as a reminder of the Vietnam War.

Mr Hanuszewicz said seeing the camouflaged APC brought memories, both good and bad, flooding back to his mind.

"You were always on edge there, you were never relaxed, not even when you were asleep," he explained as he walked around the historic vehicle.

"I was a crew commander towards the end of the war and was transferred from tanks onto APCs … It's a scary transition from a 52 tonne tank to an 11 tonne APC."

The 71-year-old said APCs were mainly used to transport combat infantry so they could engage with the enemy at close quarters until the tanks arrived.

"There were a lot of bunker systems in Vietnam where the North Vietnamese would use them as bases and it was part of operations to go out and find them," he said.

"The APCs transported the troops with all their gear, just short of the objective and then they'd get out and assault.

But because of the close country in the jungle there were a lot of casualties."



* Photo:* The M113A1 APC were the work horses of the Vietnam war. (Supplied: Australian War Memorial DNE/65/0221/VN) 


Being inside the cramped, diesel-perfumed compartment of the APC was a welcome comfort to soldiers, explained Mr Hanuszewicz who said "it always beat walking".

"You don't wash for three or four weeks but you all smell the same so you don't smell anything but the diesel," he continued.

Pointing to the top of the APC, Mr Hanuszewicz said infantry men would always prefer to sit on the side because the worst part of travelling distances of almost 30 kilometres was not knowing where you were.

"It was terrifying … the not knowing was the worst part. That's why you see a lot of pictures of people sitting on the outside — it was cooler and you could see the countryside."

Although it has been more than 50 years since Mr Hanuszewicz served in the Vietnam War, he said his mind was still over there.

"When I came home for RnR [rest and recreation leave] I had this guilty feeling, this feeling like I shouldn't be here and I should be with my mates," he said.

"It's hard to explain what you've seen, so we tend to just bottle it all up.

"How do you convey to someone that an APC has just been blown up and 10 people are dead?"

Despite the horrors of war, Mr Hanuszewicz said he liked to focus on the good, rather than the bad.

"The bad, it's always there, but you tend to put it behind you or you pay the consequences."

*'It was very emotional'*


* Photo:* Terry Roe said the APCs often evoked an emotional response from veterans. (ABC News: Aneeta Bhole) 


South Arm RSL sub-branch president Terry Roe said he hoped the new addition to the South Arm memorial would be used as an education tool for younger generations learning about the Vietnam War.

Mr Roe explained that the APC 1965 model M113A1 was commonly seen during the battle of Long Tan and Bin Ba during the war which spanned almost two decades.

"Vietnam veterans came down to witness the APC's arrival and it was very emotional for them," he said.

"A lot of us have travelled inside them, we've spent time with them with our mates and they've backed us up with fire support when we've been in contact with the enemy."

The vehicle was one of three available for purchase from the ADF's defence disposal unit and the first to be put on display in Tasmania.

The APC will join a World War II memorial, set to be completed by the end of the year, among memorials for more recent conflicts such as Iraq and Afghanistan which are also hoped to be represented at South Arm Memorial Park in the future.

"The overall end result is to leave a fitting memorial of this particular peninsula to young people who have had their parents and grandparents fight with the military," Mr Roe said..

"We're hoping it will also serve educational purposes for schools who can come down and touch, feel and read about the people on the memorial wall."



* Photo:* Soldiers usually preferred to sit outside the APCs if they could. (Supplied: Australian War Memorial) 


*Topics:* history, veterans, south-arm-7022

Contact Aneeta Bhole

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## Viet

It is like Christmas. With best wishes from Xi Jinping, China donates office equipment worth $200,000 and a building "Vietnam-China friendship palace" worth $20 million.

Not too bad

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## Viet

*Russian naval ships call at Cam Ranh Port*

Last update: 16:35 | 27/04/2017
VNA

_The missile cruiser Varyag of the Russian navy’s Pacific Fleet, along with tanker Pechenga and rescue tug Fotiy Krylov, on April 27 began a visit of Cam Ranh Port and Nha Trang city of the central province of Khanh Hoa. _


_




The missile cruiser Varyag of the Russian navy’s Pacific Fleet _


During the visit, the commanding officers of the vessels, led by Lieutenant Colonel Ulyanenko Alexey, will pay courtesy visits to leaders of the provincial People’s Committee and the Vietnamese Navy, lay wreaths at the monument to military men of the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation and Vietnam who sacrificed their lives for peace and stability in the region, and hold exchanges with Vietnamese naval officers and soldiers.

The visit of the Russian naval ships will contribute to strengthening the comprehensive strategic partnership, including defence and navy cooperation, between Vietnam and Russia.

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## Viet

The army's most value asset is not submarines neither frigates nor bombers but a company.

VietTel Tanzania goes IPO. If successful it will give a glimpse on the military run VietTel's market capitalization. Considering other telecom operators VietTel could be valued between $50 billion to $150 billion.

_




_
http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...eady-for-april-ipo-in-tanzania.html#ui=mobile


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## GrandWorldOrder

I can't post offsite links due to my limited amount of posts, but I came across a really corny but somewhat entertaining Vietnamese TV show where celebrities go through military training. Google "Sao nhập ngũ - QPVN" on youtube...

Corny jokes aside, I guess it offers a really good insight into training.


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## xiao qi

GrandWorldOrder said:


> I can't post offsite links due to my limited amount of posts, but I came across a really corny but somewhat entertaining Vietnamese TV show where celebrities go through military training. Google "Sao nhập ngũ - QPVN" on youtube...
> 
> Corny jokes aside, I guess it offers a really good insight into training.


It is only one part of the training and cant express the efficiency and ability of Vietnamese army.

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## Viet

Landing exercise for helicopter pilot aspirants















Su30 fighter with from Vietnamese engineer improved Kh29T/L antiship missile

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## GrandWorldOrder

xiao qi said:


> It is only one part of the training and cant express the efficiency and ability of Vietnamese army.


I'm aware, that was just recruit training. I still find it fascinating though, offers an insight into how they're built up from civilians into troops.

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## Viet

Vietnam's most important event of the year: APEC 2017. Leaders of 21 countries of the Pacific rim are expected to attend, including the US and China presidents. The German carmaker Audi provides over 350 special made edition cars to chauffeur the guests. Ok Donald Trump will certainly use his own armor limousines. Maybe Xi Jinping and Shinzo Abe will rely on their own limousines too.

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## Aqsuperman

Great new, guys. Its seem VN is about to receive an Ex-ROKN ASW Pohang class ship. This is confirm by the Philipine which also about to receive one. This would greatly bolster our elderly Petya class ships.

* Finally, the Philippine Navy (and Vietnam) are Set to Receive a Pohang-class Flight III Corvette from South Korea *
MaxDefense Philippines finally received a confirmation from its sources that after more than 2 years of waiting, the Philippine Navy will be receiving a _Pohang_-class corvette from South Korea. This is NOT the same ship that was reported since 2014, which is a totally different project.

After conducting of the Joint Visual Inspection by the Philippine Navy in Jinhae Naval Base in South Korea, spearheaded by the Offshore Combat Force's commanding officer himself, the Philippine Navy decided to finally accept the offer made by the South Korean government to transfer the _Pohang_-class Flight III anti-submarine corvette. It appears that *only 1 ship was offered by the South Korean government*, while the other decommissioned Flight III ships will be going to 2 other countries. The ship is expected to be in service with the Philippine Navy by 4th quarter of 2017.

While the deal appears that the ship is free, the Philippine Navy will have to spend around Php 200 million for the entire transfer process, including reactivation, repair, minor refurbishing works, replacement of obsolete systems required for safe use of the ship, crew billeting and training, and other expenses.

The ship is expected to be assigned with the Offshore Combat Force (OCF) of the Philippine Fleet, and will be the primary anti-submarne warfare (ASW) platform of the service until the introduction of other ASW-capable units.





Pohang-class corvette ROKS _Chungju_ (PCC-762), the unit reportedly assigned for transfer to the Philippine Navy.
Credits to owner of photo.



*The Ship in Brief:*

The ship, reported to be the former ROKS _Chungju_ (PCC-762), was built by Korea Tacoma Shipyard, was commissioned with the Republic of Korea Navy in 1987, and served until it was decommissioned in December 2016. Based on these dates, the ship is around 30 years old, or at least 20 years younger than the Hamilton-class cutters acquired by the Philippine Navy from the US Coast Guard.








It is considered a Flight III sub-class of the _Pohang_-class combat corvette, which is configured for anti-submarine warfare. It is equipped with two Oto Melara 76mm Compact naval guns, two Breda twin 40mm/70 naval guns, two Mk. 32 triple torpedo tubes, and two Mk.9 depth charge racks. It was previously fitted with Harpoon anti-ship missile launchers, and while they are not included in the transfer, the ship won't need major alterations and adjustments for launchers to be re-installed again.

The ship's sensors suite include Raytheon AN/SPS-64 radar, Signaal WM-28 Fire Control system, and a Raytheon AN/SQS-58 hull mounted sonar which replaced an older model.





The ROKS _Chungju_ is equipped with two Mk.32 triple torpedo launchers, similar to the photo above.
Photo taken from Wikipedia.



*As an Anti Submarine Warfare Training Ship:*

The ship's Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) gear is the primary reason of the Philippine Navy's interest in the _Pohang_-class. With no warship in its fleet with ASW capability, the PN has almost zero capability in detecting and hunting submarines, as well as providing practical and actual ASW training to its personnel.

The ASW training is very important since the Philippine Navy is expecting the delivery of two new ASW-capable frigates in the next few years, and the training of potential crew members should start as early as possible. According to our sources, the Republic of Korea Navy will primarily assist in training PN personnel in ASW, while the PN will also be getting assistance from other friendly navies in growing the knowledge and experience base.



*What Happened to the Earlier Offer:*

In 2014, it was reported that the Philippine Navy will be receiving the _Pohang_-class Flight II ASuW corvette ROKS _Mokpo_ (PCC-759) as a donation by the South Korean government. While the ship itself is free, the ship will need to undergo rehabilitation and refurbishing before it can set sail for the Philippines. And expenses for this would be paid for by the Philippine government.

A Joint Visual Inspection (JVI) team from the Philippine Navy found in 2014 that the ROKS _Mokpo_ was in very poor condition, and will need a huge investment in time and money to be brought to tip top shape. Also, it is not an ASW-configured warship, and this is what the PN is actually putting priority in what they are looking for. Thus, the Philippine Navy rejected the offer, and instead requested the Korean government to provide an alternative offer.

The latest proposal made by the Korean government has reached the Philippine Navy late last year, resulting to this latest arrangement for the transfer of ROKS _Chungju_.

While we were all hoping that the Koreans may have offered more than just 1 ship, MaxDefense received confirmation that the other available Flight III corvettes were earmarked for Vietnam, and another one for a South American country.

Until now there are reportedly no takers yet of the former ROKS _Mokpo_, suggesting that the inspection results from the PN may hold weight.

So let's stop looking for the _Mokpo_, shall we?



*Future Plans:*

The Philippine Navy has requested funding for a combat system upgrade for a single _Pohang_-class corvette as part of the AFP Modernization Program's Horizon 2 phase, as submitted by the AFP and DND to Malacanang. This will enable the PN to install a heavier weapons system like anti-ship missiles, while also upgrading its weapons and sensor suite.

Aside from that, the Philippine Navy is also hoping that the South Korean government will again offer more _Pohang_-class corvettes, as the PN wanted to have at least 3 units in its fleet. This is logical, considering that operating a single _Pohang_-class ship does not make sense, and would be a logistical problem for the PN since it uses parts and systems that are currently not in their logistics and maintenance chain. More ships of the class in PN service makes its continued use more reasonable in both operations and logistics point of view.

These ships are also expected to replace some of the World War 2-era assets of the Philippine Navy, which they wanted to retire from service by year 2020.





The _Pohang_-class are actually configured to carry and fire Harpoon anti-ship missiles, as seen on the photo above. The combat system upgrade requested by the PN for the _Pohang_-class under the Horizon 2 phase of the Navy's modernization programme may include the acquisition and installation of such systems, enabling the ship to have the capability to engage enemy ships in longer distances.
Credits to the owner of the photo.


MaxDefense will update this blog entry as more information comes in the near future. Meanwhile, MaxDefense readers are adviced to also read our old blog entry regarding the _Pohang_-class acquisition by the Philippine Navy, which I believe is still relevant up to now:

"OVERVIEW ON ROKN'S _POHANG_-CLASS CORVETTES, AND TRANSFER OF 1 SHIP TO THE PN" - First posted on June 8, 2014.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Great new, guys. Its seem VN is about to receive an Ex-ROKN ASW Pohang class ship. This is confirm by the Philipine which also about to receive one. This would greatly bolster our elderly Petya class ships.
> 
> * Finally, the Philippine Navy (and Vietnam) are Set to Receive a Pohang-class Flight III Corvette from South Korea *
> MaxDefense Philippines finally received a confirmation from its sources that after more than 2 years of waiting, the Philippine Navy will be receiving a _Pohang_-class corvette from South Korea. This is NOT the same ship that was reported since 2014, which is a totally different project.
> 
> After conducting of the Joint Visual Inspection by the Philippine Navy in Jinhae Naval Base in South Korea, spearheaded by the Offshore Combat Force's commanding officer himself, the Philippine Navy decided to finally accept the offer made by the South Korean government to transfer the _Pohang_-class Flight III anti-submarine corvette. It appears that *only 1 ship was offered by the South Korean government*, while the other decommissioned Flight III ships will be going to 2 other countries. The ship is expected to be in service with the Philippine Navy by 4th quarter of 2017.
> 
> While the deal appears that the ship is free, the Philippine Navy will have to spend around Php 200 million for the entire transfer process, including reactivation, repair, minor refurbishing works, replacement of obsolete systems required for safe use of the ship, crew billeting and training, and other expenses.
> 
> The ship is expected to be assigned with the Offshore Combat Force (OCF) of the Philippine Fleet, and will be the primary anti-submarne warfare (ASW) platform of the service until the introduction of other ASW-capable units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pohang-class corvette ROKS _Chungju_ (PCC-762), the unit reportedly assigned for transfer to the Philippine Navy.
> Credits to owner of photo.
> 
> 
> 
> *The Ship in Brief:*
> 
> The ship, reported to be the former ROKS _Chungju_ (PCC-762), was built by Korea Tacoma Shipyard, was commissioned with the Republic of Korea Navy in 1987, and served until it was decommissioned in December 2016. Based on these dates, the ship is around 30 years old, or at least 20 years younger than the Hamilton-class cutters acquired by the Philippine Navy from the US Coast Guard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is considered a Flight III sub-class of the _Pohang_-class combat corvette, which is configured for anti-submarine warfare. It is equipped with two Oto Melara 76mm Compact naval guns, two Breda twin 40mm/70 naval guns, two Mk. 32 triple torpedo tubes, and two Mk.9 depth charge racks. It was previously fitted with Harpoon anti-ship missile launchers, and while they are not included in the transfer, the ship won't need major alterations and adjustments for launchers to be re-installed again.
> 
> The ship's sensors suite include Raytheon AN/SPS-64 radar, Signaal WM-28 Fire Control system, and a Raytheon AN/SQS-58 hull mounted sonar which replaced an older model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ROKS _Chungju_ is equipped with two Mk.32 triple torpedo launchers, similar to the photo above.
> Photo taken from Wikipedia.
> 
> 
> 
> *As an Anti Submarine Warfare Training Ship:*
> 
> The ship's Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) gear is the primary reason of the Philippine Navy's interest in the _Pohang_-class. With no warship in its fleet with ASW capability, the PN has almost zero capability in detecting and hunting submarines, as well as providing practical and actual ASW training to its personnel.
> 
> The ASW training is very important since the Philippine Navy is expecting the delivery of two new ASW-capable frigates in the next few years, and the training of potential crew members should start as early as possible. According to our sources, the Republic of Korea Navy will primarily assist in training PN personnel in ASW, while the PN will also be getting assistance from other friendly navies in growing the knowledge and experience base.
> 
> 
> 
> *What Happened to the Earlier Offer:*
> 
> In 2014, it was reported that the Philippine Navy will be receiving the _Pohang_-class Flight II ASuW corvette ROKS _Mokpo_ (PCC-759) as a donation by the South Korean government. While the ship itself is free, the ship will need to undergo rehabilitation and refurbishing before it can set sail for the Philippines. And expenses for this would be paid for by the Philippine government.
> 
> A Joint Visual Inspection (JVI) team from the Philippine Navy found in 2014 that the ROKS _Mokpo_ was in very poor condition, and will need a huge investment in time and money to be brought to tip top shape. Also, it is not an ASW-configured warship, and this is what the PN is actually putting priority in what they are looking for. Thus, the Philippine Navy rejected the offer, and instead requested the Korean government to provide an alternative offer.
> 
> The latest proposal made by the Korean government has reached the Philippine Navy late last year, resulting to this latest arrangement for the transfer of ROKS _Chungju_.
> 
> While we were all hoping that the Koreans may have offered more than just 1 ship, MaxDefense received confirmation that the other available Flight III corvettes were earmarked for Vietnam, and another one for a South American country.
> 
> Until now there are reportedly no takers yet of the former ROKS _Mokpo_, suggesting that the inspection results from the PN may hold weight.
> 
> So let's stop looking for the _Mokpo_, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> *Future Plans:*
> 
> The Philippine Navy has requested funding for a combat system upgrade for a single _Pohang_-class corvette as part of the AFP Modernization Program's Horizon 2 phase, as submitted by the AFP and DND to Malacanang. This will enable the PN to install a heavier weapons system like anti-ship missiles, while also upgrading its weapons and sensor suite.
> 
> Aside from that, the Philippine Navy is also hoping that the South Korean government will again offer more _Pohang_-class corvettes, as the PN wanted to have at least 3 units in its fleet. This is logical, considering that operating a single _Pohang_-class ship does not make sense, and would be a logistical problem for the PN since it uses parts and systems that are currently not in their logistics and maintenance chain. More ships of the class in PN service makes its continued use more reasonable in both operations and logistics point of view.
> 
> These ships are also expected to replace some of the World War 2-era assets of the Philippine Navy, which they wanted to retire from service by year 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The _Pohang_-class are actually configured to carry and fire Harpoon anti-ship missiles, as seen on the photo above. The combat system upgrade requested by the PN for the _Pohang_-class under the Horizon 2 phase of the Navy's modernization programme may include the acquisition and installation of such systems, enabling the ship to have the capability to engage enemy ships in longer distances.
> Credits to the owner of the photo.
> 
> 
> MaxDefense will update this blog entry as more information comes in the near future. Meanwhile, MaxDefense readers are adviced to also read our old blog entry regarding the _Pohang_-class acquisition by the Philippine Navy, which I believe is still relevant up to now:
> 
> "OVERVIEW ON ROKN'S _POHANG_-CLASS CORVETTES, AND TRANSFER OF 1 SHIP TO THE PN" - First posted on June 8, 2014.



More info on the Pohang class:

*Class overview*
Name: _Pohang_ class
Operators:



Republic of Korea Navy
Preceded by: _Donghae_ class
Succeeded by: _Incheon_ class
In commission: 18 December 1984 - present
Completed: 24
Active: 16
Lost: 1
Retired: 7
Preserved: 1
*General characteristics*
Type: Corvette
Displacement: 1,200 tonnes (1,200 long tons; 1,300 short tons)
Length: 88.3 m (289 ft 8 in)[1]
Beam: 10 m (32 ft 10 in)[2]
Draft: 2.9 m (9 ft 6 in)[1]
Propulsion: CODOG unit[2]
Speed:

Maximum: 32 knots (59 km/h)
Cruising: 15 knots (28 km/h)[2]
Range: 4,000 nautical miles (7,400 km)[2]
Crew: 95
Sensors and
processing systems:

_ASUW Version:_
[3]
- AN/SPS-64 Surface Search Radar
- Signaal WM 28 Fire Control System
- Signaal LIOD (Lightweight Optronic Director)
_ASW Version:_
- Marconi ST-1810 Surface Search Radar
- ST-1802 Fire Control System
- Radamec 2400 Optronic System
- Signaal PHS-32 Hull Mounted Sonar
Electronic warfare
& decoys:

_ASUW Version:_
- 4 x Mel Protean Chaff Launchers
Armament:

_ASUW Version:_
[3]
- 2 x MM-38 Exocet
- 1 x OTO Melara 76 mm/62 compact cannon
- 2 x Emerlec 30 mm cannons
_ASW Version:_
- 2 x OTO Melara 76 mm/62 compact cannon
- 4 x Harpoon missiles
- 2 x Nobong 40mm/70 twin cannons
- 2 x Mark 32 triple torpedo tubes (with 6× Chung Sang Eoes)
- 12 x Mark 9 depth charges
*Pohang Class Patrol Combat Corvettes*
The Pohang is a class of Patrol Combat Corvette (PCC) of the Republic of Korea Navy (ROKN). A total of 24 ships were built by Korea Shipbuilding Corporation, Hyundai Heavy Industries, Daewoo Shipbuilding and Korea Takoma. Pohang Class is preceded by Donghae class corvette.

The lead ship in class, Pohang (PCC-756), was delivered to ROKN in 1984. Remaining ships including Gunsan (PCC-757), Gyeongju (PCC-758), Mokpo (PCC-759), Gimcheon (PCC-761), Chungju (PCC-762), Jinju (PCC-763), Yeosu (PCC-765), Jinhae (PCC-766), Suncheon (PCC-767), Iri (PCC-768), Wonju (PCC-769), Andong (PCC-771), Cheonan (PCC-772), Bucheon (PCC-773), Seongnam (PCC-775), Jecheon (PCC-776), Daecheon (PCC-777), Sokcho (PCC-778), Yeongju (PCC-779), Namwon (PCC-781), Gwangmyeong (PCC-782), Sinseong (PCC-783) and Gongju (PCC-785) were delivered by 1993.

The Pohang class ships are divided into ASUW (anti-surface warfare) and ASW (anti-submarine warfare) variants according to the weapon systems fitted onboard. The ASUW type includes four ships and ASW type comprises 20 ships. ROKN currently operates 22 Pohang Class corvettes. The first ship in class, Pohang, was retired and used for training exercises. Cheonan was sunk by the torpedo attack from North Korea on 26 March 2010.

Design

"The versatile design allows the operators to equip the ship for multi-role missions."
The external form is identical to the Tonghae class. The versatile design allows the operators to equip the ship for multi-role missions.

Pohang class has a length of 88.3m, a beam of 10m and a draft of 3m. Displacement of the ship is 1,200t.

The vessel has a maximum speed of 32kt and can complement over 90 crew members.

Pohang Class missions

The primary mission of the corvette is coastal line patrolling. Pohang class is deployed as a main force to monitor defence in the South Korean coast. These ships were equipped to perform anti-submarine, anti-ship and anti-aircraft warfare operations in the littoral environment.

Pohang Class missiles

The ASUW type ships are armed with two MM-38 Exocet anti-ship missiles, while ASW variants are equipped with four Harpoon anti-ship missiles. The MM-38 is a short-range ship launched cruise missile developed by MBDA. The missile has a maximum range of 40km and can carry a 165kg warhead.

Pohang Class guns

The first four ships are fitted with an Oto Melara 76mm gun and two Emerson 30mm anti-aircraft guns. ASW type vessels are equipped with two OTO Melara 76mm guns and two Breda 40mm guns. Oto Melara has a rate of fire of 120 rounds a minute and a range of 16km.

The torpedo travels at a speed of 45kt and is equipped with active and passive homing."
Anti-submarine warfare

ASW variants are equipped with Mark 32 triple torpedo tubes for Mark 46 torpedoes. These tubes can launch six torpedoes against submarines.

The torpedo travels at a speed of 45kt and is equipped with active and passive homing and a 44.5kg warhead. There are 12 Mark 9 depth charges also available for anti-submarine operations.

Pohang Class countermeasures

The ASUW ships are equipped with Mel Protean chaff launchers. Each launcher comprises four cells, with 36 grenades. The magazine can also be replaced with three IR flare containers, each accommodating 21 decoys. Other countermeasure equipment includes Thorn EMI or NobelTech intercept or jammer.

Sensors/radars

The Raytheon SPS-64 surface search radar, Signaal WM 28 fire control radar, Signaal LIOD (Lightweight Optronic Director) and SRN 15 TACAN (Tactical Air Navigation) Sonar are fitted on the ASUW type corvettes. The ASW type ships are equipped with Samsung or Marconi ST-1810 surface search radar, ST-1802 fire control radar, Samsung or Radamec 2400 optronic system and Signaal PHS-32 Hull mounted Sonar.

Propulsion

The Pohang Class corvettes are powered by a combined diesel or gas (CODOG) propulsion system. The system comprises two MTU diesel engines and a LM2500 gas turbine. Theses engines driving two shafts through the gearboxes provide 6,260SHP. The propulsion system provides a maximum speed of 32kt and a range of 4,000nm at a cruise speed of 15kt.

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## Viet

Vietnam made radar RV-02, VHF band, aircraft detection range 350 km, especially made to detect enemy stealth aircraft. The system is a further development of a Belarus radar, is said can detect US F-117A Nighthawk from 74 kilometers away, F-22 in 57 kilometers away in a jammed environment. The radar is linked to S-300 surface-to-air missiles. Vietnam wants to deploy 21 RV-02 stealth radar systems by 2020.

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## Viet

Once antistealth radar RV-02 is deployed throughout territories, no aircraft remains undetected, when it approaches Vietnam controlled airspace. and beyond. Great stuff.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

*Japanese Emperor, Empress host tea party following Vietnam visit*

Last update: 11:16 | 18/04/2017

_Japanese Emperor and Empress hosted a tea party at the Imperial Palace, Tokyo, on April 17 to celebrate the success of their Vietnam visit from February 28 – March 5. _


_




Japanese Emperor and Empress_


Attending the event were Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, ministers, Vietnamese Ambassador to Japan Nguyen Quoc Cuong and his spouse.

Emperor Akihito thanked the Vietnamese leaders and people for their warm and hospitable welcome during the visit, and hoped that it would further strengthen ties between Vietnam and Japan.

Talking with Ambassador Cuong, the royal couple said they were touched by sincere sentiment that the Vietnamese leaders and people gave to them during the first historic visit, saying that they will keep images of a beautiful and hospitable Vietnam in memory forever.

Cuong conveyed Vietnamese Party and State leaders’ regards for the Emperor and Empress. He affirmed that the visit is a specially important milestone in the development of Vietnam-Japan ties.

_VNA_

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## Viet

*Japanese PM sends condolences to murdered girl’s family*

Last update: 11:06 | 18/04/2017
VietnamNet News

_Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has extended his condolences to the family of Le Thi Nhat Linh, a nine-year-old Vietnamese girl murdered in Matsudo city, Chiba prefecture, in late March._






_Vietnamese Ambassador to Japan Nguyen Quoc Cuong._


During a meeting with Vietnamese Ambassador to Japan Nguyen Quoc Cuong in Tokyo on April 17, PM Abe asked the diplomat to convey his sympathy to Linh’s family.

He also affirmed that the Japanese Government is sparing no effort to help Linh’s family to overcome the great loss.

Cuong thanked the Japanese Prime Minister, Government and people for their care and sympathy after the tragedy. He expected that Japan’s relevant agencies will soon determine and handle the culprit stringently in accordance with the Japanese law.

At the meeting, PM Abe also said he is expecting that Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc will pay an official visit to Japan this year in a bid to strengthen the growing strategic partnership between the two countries.

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## Viet

Vietnam War


April 1970

*Trying to kill a sniper*

An entire Army base versus a lone Viet Cong

by Alex Q. Arbuckle






James Speed Hensinger


In April 1970, 22-year-old James Speed Hensinger, an enlisted man in the U.S. Army’s 173rd Airborne Brigade, was stationed at a compound in Phu Tai, west of the coastal city of Qui Nhon, Vietnam.

Over the course of several nights, a lone Viet Cong fighter had repeatedly crept in among the rocks on a mountain overlooking the base and sprayed the camp with automatic AK-47 fire, perforating the sheet-metal roofs of the Americans’ hooches, killing one man and vexing the rest.

The soldiers were told that an overwhelming response would be prepared for the next time the “sniper” decided to strike.

Hensinger, sensing an opportunity, stuffed his Nikon camera, 50mm f/1.4 lens, and Ektachrome film (with a speed of ISO 64, usually used only in bright daylight) into the pocket of his fatigues. He timed his appearance for guard duty to make sure that he would be assigned to the watch tower with the widest view of the mountain and base.

Each tower had three men, and I was off watch duty when the shit started. When the first shots rang out, he rested his camera on a sandbag and pointed it toward the action. Using a cable release, he captured a series of long exposures, 15 to 60 seconds long, as the Army unleashed a hellish barrage. 

An M42 “Duster” tank swept the mountain with twin 40mm anti-aircraft autocannons, while soldiers in guard towers opened up with a .50-caliber machine gun and M60 machine guns.

The rocky hillside was illuminated by hand-launched flares, high-explosive rounds and tracer rounds (which were loaded into the ammo belts one for every four normal bullets — meaning the visible streaks in the images represent only a fifth of the rounds being poured out).






The M42 tank fires an opening salvo at the sniper's approximated position with 40mm anti-aircraft cannons.






Hand-launched flares illuminate the hills as soldiers fire M60 machine guns with red tracers. One round can be seen ricocheting near the top of the mountain.

IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER






Flares continue to burn as soldiers pepper the hillside with M60 fire.

IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER









IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER





The M42 sprays the hillside with .50-caliber high explosive machine gun fire.

IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER










M60 machine guns join the .50-caliber fire.

IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER





The M42 once again opens up with the 40mm autocannons as the M60s and .50-cal continue firing.

IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER







IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER








IMAGE: JAMES SPEED HENSINGER

At daybreak, patrols went up the mountain, searching among the massive boulders for a sign of their target. They found a small blood trail one morning, but the sniper had vanished.

During his tour of duty, Hensinger mailed dozens of rolls of film home, but asked his parents not to have them developed without him there — he had lied about his situation in Vietnam and didn’t want them worrying about his safety.

Hensinger now lives outside Denver, Colorado, and still enjoys shooting pictures.

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## Viet

Frigate HMNZS TE KAHA (New Zealand) to a visit in Đà Nẵng

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## Nilgiri

This is a maori dance of friendship I believe. Less well known than the war like haka...but its quite nice to see when they are in the tribal wear...I have seen the poi dance performed, very enjoyable!

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Vietnam War
> 
> 
> April 1970
> 
> *Trying to kill a sniper*
> 
> An entire Army base versus a lone Viet Cong
> 
> by Alex Q. Arbuckle
> 
> James Speed Hensinger
> 
> In April 1970, 22-year-old James Speed Hensinger, an enlisted man in the U.S. Army’s 173rd Airborne Brigade, was stationed at a compound in Phu Tai, west of the coastal city of Qui Nhon, Vietnam.
> 
> Over the course of several nights, a lone Viet Cong fighter had repeatedly crept in among the rocks on a mountain overlooking the base and sprayed the camp with automatic AK-47 fire, perforating the sheet-metal roofs of the Americans’ hooches, killing one man and vexing the rest.
> 
> The soldiers were told that an overwhelming response would be prepared for the next time the “sniper” decided to strike.
> 
> Hensinger, sensing an opportunity, stuffed his Nikon camera, 50mm f/1.4 lens, and Ektachrome film (with a speed of ISO 64, usually used only in bright daylight) into the pocket of his fatigues. He timed his appearance for guard duty to make sure that he would be assigned to the watch tower with the widest view of the mountain and base.


Pity he didn't have a camcorder at that time.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Frigate HMNZS TE KAHA (New Zealand) to a visit in Đà Nẵng



They came right on time to see the international fireworks festival in Danang.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> This is a maori dance of friendship I believe. Less well known than the war like haka...but its quite nice to see when they are in the tribal wear...I have seen the poi dance performed, very enjoyable!


Beautiful tradition, Maori dance of the woman greeting distinguished guests or Haka war dance of the men before a battle

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## Viet

*April 30, 1975*

A beautiful city lying in the west coast of America and home of the largest exile Vietnamese group outside Vietnam: San José in California. And home of majority of die-hard republican Vietnamese, with many today remember of the fall of Saigon 42 years ago.


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## Viet

It is really rare that the fate of a Vietnamese citizen overshadows a high level talk. Vietnamese government demands a clarification in the case of Doan Thi Huong, who is accused of killing Kim Jong-nam. She could face execution squad if found guilty. In talk with Malaysia PM Najib, Vietnam PM Nguyen "hopes" that facts would surface she was used and manipulated. Maybe both sides can reach a deal. Najib appeals to Vietnamese government to allow Sime Darby Motors chief operating officer Simon Rock who is facing several charges of tax impropriety in Vietnam to be allowed to return home.

Read more at http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nati...will-be-given-fair-trial/#K2jYPMrGazWBf6jI.99


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Frigate HMNZS TE KAHA (New Zealand) to a visit in Đà Nẵng



I was on the Sister Ship of this one HMNZS Te Mana (Pennant Number F77) when It was ported in Sydney, it was 1 of 10 Australian and New Zealand Class Frigate, and the only 1 of 2 New Zealand Frigate (That's all their Naval Surface Combat Force) That ship represent 50% of all New Zealand Navy

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I was on the Sister Ship of this one HMNZS Te Mana (Pennant Number F77) when It was ported in Sydney, it was 1 of 10 Australian and New Zealand Class Frigate, and the only 1 of 2 New Zealand Frigate (That's all their Naval Surface Combat Force) That ship represent 50% of all New Zealand Navy
> 
> View attachment 394111
> 
> View attachment 394112
> 
> View attachment 394113
> 
> View attachment 394114
> 
> View attachment 394115
> 
> View attachment 394116


Really two ships that's all?

That is unbelievable. Imagine Vietnam sends half of warships to a friendly visit to New Zealand.

I believe if Vietnam is as far as away from a certain country, protected by vast oceans and hungry sharks, we will copy the kiwi and reduce our naval force to a minimum. It may be enough to learn the Haka war dance to intimidate our enemy


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Really two ships that's all?
> 
> That is unbelievable. Imagine Vietnam sends half of warships to a friendly visit to New Zealand.
> 
> I believe if Vietnam is as far as away from a certain country, protected by vast oceans and hungry sharks, we will copy the kiwi and reduce our naval force to a minimum. It may be enough to learn the Haka war dance to intimidate our enemy



I should say 50% surface combatant. Not 50% of New Zealand ship's 

Their whole navy have 11 ships, 2 Frigate, 6 PB, 2 underway replenishment and 1 minesweeper.

Yes, that ship represent 50% of New Zealand Firepower.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> I should say 50% surface combatant. Not 50% of New Zealand ship's
> 
> Their whole navy have 11 ships, 2 Frigate, 6 PB, 2 underway replenishment and 1 minesweeper.
> 
> Yes, that ship represent 50% of New Zealand Firepower.


I understand you. 50 pct of new zealand firepower is on vacation, while the other 50 pct protects the country. Ha ha ha.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I understand you. 50 pct of new zealand firepower is on vacation, while the other 50 pct protects the country. Ha ha ha.



Well, the Aussie always joke about New Zealand defence force for their lack of equipment, they were originally planned to buy 4 of these ships, then only 2, then only 1, then forced to get 2, if it is up to the Kiwis, they weren't interested with this project to begin with, they were desperately trying to unhinged from the ANZUS pact, they even called to have the ship's capability nerfed so they will have inferior radars and propulsion system then the Australian ANZAC.

I think they are a peace loving bunch

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## Suika

While on mention of New Zealand Navy, they will acquire a 24,000 ton multi-support role ship.

---start---
The Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN) has announced that the name of its newest and biggest ship will be HMNZS Aotearoa.

Construction of the new 24,000-tonne vessel, the largest ship ever operated by the RNZN, will start next year, for delivery in January 2020.

Five members of an RNZN panel, chaired by Deputy Chief of Navy Commodore David Gibbs, considered a range of names, with a shortlist presented to Chief of Navy Rear Admiral John Martin for his final decision.

It was a big name for a big ship, Rear Admiral Martin said.

“HMNZS Aotearoa will represent us as a nation on the international stage whether conducting operational support, maritime sustainment or providing humanitarian aid and disaster relief. Aotearoa will be recognisable within the Pacific region and identifiable with all New Zealanders.”

HMNZS Aotearoa has twice the displacement of HMNZS Endeavour, which is scheduled for decommissioning next year, and will carry 30 per cent more fuel. South Korean firm Hyundai Heavy Industries, the world’s biggest shipbuilder, will build Aotearoa.

Rear Admiral Martin said Aotearoa, while replacing Endeavour, offered more than just a replenishment role.

“Aotearoa will have the ability to deploy anywhere in the world to support maritime operations and enhance our combat force,” he said. “It has the ability to conduct embarked helicopter operations and will be capable of carrying a significant tonnage of operational supplies. And it will provide an important Antarctic support capability to assist with our Southern Ocean monitoring.”

HMNZS Aotearoa will be a world-first naval “Environship”, with Hyundai using the Rolls-Royce Environship concept design under licence. The design incorporates a new wave-piercing hull, which reduces resistance and lowers fuel use, while its combined diesel electric and diesel propulsion plant has lower fuel emissions than older vessels.

The design and capabilities of HMNZS Aotearoa were announced by the Ministry of Defence in 2016. The cost includes the tanker’s enhanced “winterisation” capabilities, such as ice-strengthening for operations in Antarctica, including resupplying McMurdo Station and Scott Base. HMNZS Endeavour is not Antarctic-capable.

The Defence White Paper 2016 identified Antarctica as a “focus on increasing international interest” while noting the New Zealand Defence Force’s “critical role” in supporting personnel in the Ross Dependency and monitoring activity in the Southern Ocean.

“Aotearoa will be the type of purpose-built, technologically enhanced asset that will add real value to our combat operations, humanitarian relief functions and our operational and training support,” Rear Admiral Martin said.

New Plymouth, Endeavour’s home port, would become the home port for Aotearoa, he said.

“This continues the longstanding relationship the RNZN has had with the Taranaki region, and its link to the sea. It also recognises the connection between the area’s oil and gas industry and the role of Aotearoa in providing fuel services.”

Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy would be the official Lady Sponsor of Aotearoa, Rear Admiral Martin said.

“As the representative of our Head of State, she is a fitting dignitary to launch the ship.”

The ship’s name is a deliberate nod to the famous battle cruiser HMS New Zealand, which took part in three maritime battles in the First World War.

“I’m proud that Aotearoa acknowledges what has gone before but this time with a uniquely Kiwi flavour,” Rear Admiral Martin said.
---end---
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1704/S00156/aotearoa-the-name-chosen-for-navys-largest-ship.htm

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## jhungary

Suika said:


> While on mention of New Zealand Navy, they will acquire a 24,000 ton multi-support role ship.
> 
> ---start---
> The Royal New Zealand Navy (RNZN) has announced that the name of its newest and biggest ship will be HMNZS Aotearoa.
> 
> Construction of the new 24,000-tonne vessel, the largest ship ever operated by the RNZN, will start next year, for delivery in January 2020.
> 
> Five members of an RNZN panel, chaired by Deputy Chief of Navy Commodore David Gibbs, considered a range of names, with a shortlist presented to Chief of Navy Rear Admiral John Martin for his final decision.
> 
> It was a big name for a big ship, Rear Admiral Martin said.
> 
> “HMNZS Aotearoa will represent us as a nation on the international stage whether conducting operational support, maritime sustainment or providing humanitarian aid and disaster relief. Aotearoa will be recognisable within the Pacific region and identifiable with all New Zealanders.”
> 
> HMNZS Aotearoa has twice the displacement of HMNZS Endeavour, which is scheduled for decommissioning next year, and will carry 30 per cent more fuel. South Korean firm Hyundai Heavy Industries, the world’s biggest shipbuilder, will build Aotearoa.
> 
> Rear Admiral Martin said Aotearoa, while replacing Endeavour, offered more than just a replenishment role.
> 
> “Aotearoa will have the ability to deploy anywhere in the world to support maritime operations and enhance our combat force,” he said. “It has the ability to conduct embarked helicopter operations and will be capable of carrying a significant tonnage of operational supplies. And it will provide an important Antarctic support capability to assist with our Southern Ocean monitoring.”
> 
> HMNZS Aotearoa will be a world-first naval “Environship”, with Hyundai using the Rolls-Royce Environship concept design under licence. The design incorporates a new wave-piercing hull, which reduces resistance and lowers fuel use, while its combined diesel electric and diesel propulsion plant has lower fuel emissions than older vessels.
> 
> The design and capabilities of HMNZS Aotearoa were announced by the Ministry of Defence in 2016. The cost includes the tanker’s enhanced “winterisation” capabilities, such as ice-strengthening for operations in Antarctica, including resupplying McMurdo Station and Scott Base. HMNZS Endeavour is not Antarctic-capable.
> 
> The Defence White Paper 2016 identified Antarctica as a “focus on increasing international interest” while noting the New Zealand Defence Force’s “critical role” in supporting personnel in the Ross Dependency and monitoring activity in the Southern Ocean.
> 
> “Aotearoa will be the type of purpose-built, technologically enhanced asset that will add real value to our combat operations, humanitarian relief functions and our operational and training support,” Rear Admiral Martin said.
> 
> New Plymouth, Endeavour’s home port, would become the home port for Aotearoa, he said.
> 
> “This continues the longstanding relationship the RNZN has had with the Taranaki region, and its link to the sea. It also recognises the connection between the area’s oil and gas industry and the role of Aotearoa in providing fuel services.”
> 
> Governor-General Dame Patsy Reddy would be the official Lady Sponsor of Aotearoa, Rear Admiral Martin said.
> 
> “As the representative of our Head of State, she is a fitting dignitary to launch the ship.”
> 
> The ship’s name is a deliberate nod to the famous battle cruiser HMS New Zealand, which took part in three maritime battles in the First World War.
> 
> “I’m proud that Aotearoa acknowledges what has gone before but this time with a uniquely Kiwi flavour,” Rear Admiral Martin said.
> ---end---
> http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1704/S00156/aotearoa-the-name-chosen-for-navys-largest-ship.htm



HMNZS Aotearoa is slated to replace HMNZS Endeavour as fleet tanker, in the future NZ Navy, they opt to go with smaller number of ship, they will replace both HMNZS Manawanui and HMNZS Resolution with the Offshore Patrol support role, also they will sell all in-shore Patrol boat and buy 1 or 2 more off shore ship in its place, that would mean the future Royal NZ Navy will have a ship strength of 8 to 9 ships. 

By the way Aotearoa is the Maori name for New Zealand

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, the Aussie always joke about New Zealand defence force for their lack of equipment, they were originally planned to buy 4 of these ships, then only 2, then only 1, then forced to get 2, if it is up to the Kiwis, they weren't interested with this project to begin with, they were desperately trying to unhinged from the ANZUS pact, they even called to have the ship's capability nerfed so they will have inferior radars and propulsion system then the Australian ANZAC.
> 
> I think they are a peace loving bunch


the kiwi folks are not only peaceful but also smart people. They travel thousands of miles far from home to bring New Zealand to Vietnam, promoting friendship, not only for fun but also advance own economic interests. Such visit pays off. The kiwi trade with Vietnam is on the rise, so the number of Vietnamese students in New Zealand. Reportedly 2,000 Vietnamese students are enrolled last year, and the number increases by 110 pct this year. The other dark side of the coin: the number of illegal fishing is also on the rise.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/329800/foreign-student-numbers-jump





Ha Vo from Vietnam is one of those more than 130,000 foreign students expected to study in New Zealand this year. She is in her third year of study at Victoria University. Photo: RNZ / John Gerritsen

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## Carlosa

Picture of one of the reclaimed reefs in the Spratly Islands, West London Reef (Dao Da Tay) and its measurements:

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> the kiwi folks are not only peaceful but also smart people. They travel thousands of miles far from home to bring New Zealand to Vietnam, promoting friendship, not only for fun but also advance own economic interests. Such visit pays off. The kiwi trade with Vietnam is on the rise, so the number of Vietnamese students in New Zealand. Reportedly 2,000 Vietnamese students are enrolled last year, and the number increases by 110 pct this year. The other dark side of the coin: the number of illegal fishing is also on the rise.
> 
> http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/329800/foreign-student-numbers-jump
> 
> View attachment 394164
> 
> Ha Vo from Vietnam is one of those more than 130,000 foreign students expected to study in New Zealand this year. She is in her third year of study at Victoria University. Photo: RNZ / John Gerritsen



There are heck a lot of Vietnamese Student in Australia as well, I used to go to school in International College of Management, Sydney, they have a college in Vietnam than allow Vietnamese student to studied the third year in Australia.

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## 帅的一匹

Viet said:


> Ok pride may be a better term. I think, too seeking a peaceful solution is better than leading a nation thru a valley of blood and tears. But sometimes there is no way out. To understand Vietnam you should understand their way of thinking. Here a video cut from a popular theatre piece, depicting the first Vietnamese rebellion led by the Trung sisters against the Han Chinese rule in the years 38-43.
> 
> Why the rebellion?
> 
> Vietnam back in the days was a province of Chinese empire, ruled by a central authority in China and local lords in Vietnam. All starts when the husband of Trung's elder sister was executed by the Han Chinese. The Chinese accused Trung's elder husband of committing treason. The Trung sisters vowed to revenge, utilizing the wide spred Vietnamese public anger against the Chinese rule. The ultimate goal: ending the Chinese rule and leading Vietnam out of slavery.
> 
> The Trung's were of noble families. They learned martial arts since childhood.


Now you are independent country, still you have very deep cultural umbilical ties with China.



Viet said:


> Not military but regardless I post here. Three recent news that shock Vietnam.
> 
> *Japan *
> 
> On the way to her school, a 9-year old Vietnamese schoolgirl called Linh went missing. Her naked body was found later near a drainage ditch. Japanese police arrests in the connection a 46-year-old man named Shibuya Yasumasa on the morning of April 14. He is believed to have kidnapped, sexually abused, strangulated the girl to death. Her boby shows sign of injury.
> 
> The man is head of the parents’ association at Linh’s school. Japan public is shocked. Japanese government expresses deep condolences. Japan's Ambassador to Vietnam Umeda Kunio conveys apology to Linh's father in front of their home in the northern province of Hung Yen.


Hypocracy I call it


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> There are heck a lot of Vietnamese Student in Australia as well, I used to go to school in International College of Management, Sydney, they have a college in Vietnam than allow Vietnamese student to studied the third year in Australia.
> 
> View attachment 394222
> 
> View attachment 394223


Are the girls vietnamese or chinese? I can't recognize them. Well Australia has lots more Vietnamese population than the Kiwi land hence no surprise. Besides Australia is very popular for Vietnamese to study.



Carlosa said:


> Picture of one of the reclaimed reefs in the Spratly Islands, West London Reef (Dao Da Tay) and its measurements:
> 
> View attachment 394218


Wonderful I like it

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Are the girls vietnamese or chinese? I can't recognize them. Well Australia has lots more Vietnamese population than the Kiwi land hence no surprise. Besides Australia is very popular for Vietnamese to study.
> 
> 
> Wonderful I like it



Well, I took those photo from ICMS Vietnamese student section, I guess they are Vietnamese (Kind of weird to have Chinese to promote the college to Vietnamese student...)


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## Viet

wanglaokan said:


> Now you are independent country, still you have very deep cultural umbilical ties with China.
> 
> 
> Hypocracy I call it


I believe you have more in common in culture with the Khmer and other people than with Vietnam. the exchange between two nations is reduced to the most primitive way: trade. Calling Vietnam/China relationship as pathetic is understatement. Japan? we value honesty of the Japanese people, their friendship and generosity.


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## 帅的一匹

Viet said:


> I believe you have more in common in culture with the Khmer and other people than with Vietnam. the exchange between two nations is reduced to the most primitive way: trade. Calling Vietnam/China relationship as pathetic is understatement. Japan? we value honesty of the Japanese people, their friendship and generosity.


Don't be kidding, you cultural practice has no big difference than those locals living in GuangXi.



Viet said:


> I believe you have more in common in culture with the Khmer and other people than with Vietnam. the exchange between two nations is reduced to the most primitive way: trade. Calling Vietnam/China relationship as pathetic is understatement. Japan? we value honesty of the Japanese people, their friendship and generosity.


Invade you and then say sorry to you?

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## Viet

wanglaokan said:


> Don't be kidding, you cultural practice has no big difference than those locals living in GuangXi.
> 
> 
> Invade you and then say sorry to you?


At least the Japanese say sorry while you don't.


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## fadine

wanglaokan said:


> Starlin is an asshole. He beg China to save his son Kim II song's ***, and relentlessly asked china to pay back the aid when we break up. It was Stalin who instigated Kim II Song launched the Korean War, not China! Why can't we fight back when you push forward policy along the border? You killed our people and looted our properties, you were totally emboldened by Soviet's arm and instigation, most importantly driven by your own wild dream to create the Indo China federation.
> 
> Time to pay back our aid.
> 
> Or your country will be a ln infamous deadbeat.
> 
> Cash/islands or gold?








chinese have fully recovered aid to Vietnam in 1979, please do not illegally occupy the islands of Vietnam anymore.


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## Viet

Ok since we are talking on the Japanese, the parents of slain Vietnamese schoolgirl Linh return to Japan, seeking an answer from the suspect. Japanese police have found Linh's DNA in his car. Apart from the sad news, Japan remains very attractive, Vietnamese students flood Japanese universities in record numbers. Vietnamese people live and work in Japan are on the rise.

https://www.masterstudies.com/news/Japan-Sees-Uptick-in-International-Student-Population-1606/

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## Viet

Russia missile cruiser Varyag in Cam Ranh bay. From all foreign navies, Russia is the only country that enjoys the privilege, she can make port calls at any time for friendly visit, resupply of food, fuel and fresh water. Even for rest.

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## Carlosa

@waz Sorry to bother you, but could you put an end to this 3 page long, off topic silly discussion? This guy wangloakan has disrupted the thread long enough and keeps going. Please delete those posts if possible.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> @waz Sorry to bother you, but could you put an end to this 3 page long, off topic silly discussion? This guy wangloakan has disrupted the thread long enough and keeps going. Please delete those posts if possible.


thank you intervened. I believe he and many chinese are a bit paranoid always thinking once we annex Laos and Cambodia, the next step is we will annex Southern China, reducing their country to a regional power. they live in fear...ha ha ha.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> thank you intervened. I believe he and many chinese are a bit paranoid always thinking once we annex Laos and Cambodia, the next step is we will annex Southern China, reducing their country to a regional power. they live in fear...ha ha ha.



Just ignore him, its a waste to time to deal with that type of people.

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## Viet

Japan´s Parliament Speaker Oshima Tadamori is coming to Vietnam for a 3-day visit. the timing could not be more perfect. Japan PM Shinzo Abe wants to present a plan this week to the parliament, how his government intends to deal with a double crisis never seen before in Japan modern history, threatening the country's existence: North Korea nuclear threat and Japan escalating population crisis.

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## Viet

The news says the development of Su-27 flight simulator is near completion though no pictures are available yet.










The domestic made friend-foe authentication system MH-VN1 appears not only suitable for SPIDER anti aircraft missile but also for S125 missile system.















The army still maintains large stockpiles of US weapons left over from Vietnam war. M42 Duster anti aircraft light tank.

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## Viet

Hopefully nobody runs amok by seeing that. Vietnamese Prime Minister recently makes visits to Cambodia and Laos. Vietnam intends to accelerate infrastructure investment by building highways and railroads, linking Vietnam to indochinese mainland.





_



_



France appears willing to provide weapons Vietnam needs for defense, as indicated by the visit of French defence minister and modern French patrol ship to Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

Update about the 105mm truck howitzer, at least 4 units of the first version have been sent to the 1st Military District for training. This is probably hint about a program to mass conversion the old M101 to the mobile gun platform.

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## Viet

*Cổ Loa Citadel
*
The oldest fortress in Vietnam build about 257BC, lying 20km to the North of Hanoi. Co Loa was the capital of Vietnam back in the days, the Citadel was built in a spiral – shaped type (hence called Loa citadel – a speaker shape citadel) to protect the city.

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## Carlosa

Pictures of land reclamation in Spratly Island (Truong sa long):






The following picture shows a new docking area highlighted in the yellow circle in the picture above:

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## Viet

New camera surveillance system developed by VietTel, with capability to process the input of more than 2,000 cameras. The system is currently being deployed at Saigon police forces.

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## Carlosa

*Pacific leaders urged to pressure Vietnam over illegal fishing*

By VnExpress May 4, 2017 

*The Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Agency asked regional leaders to give Vietnam ‘a clear message’ about repeated offenses.*

Vietnam is set to face stronger pressure from Pacific countries about its fishermen repeatedly poaching marine resources in the area, _Radio New Zealand_ reported.

Government officials from the affected countries – the Federated States of Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, New Caledonia, Palau, Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands – were in Australia this week to attend a Pacific Islands Forum Fisheries Agency meeting where they were urged to increase pressure on Vietnam to take responsibility for the poaching.

James Movick, the agency’s director general, said Pacific leaders should push as far as their diplomatic engagements allow to give the Vietnamese government “a clear message”.

The report said Vietnam had been receptive to complaints from Australia about the poaching, but dismissive of those from Pacific countries.

Dozens of Vietnamese fishermen have been caught fishing illegally in the area in recent months.

In March alone, 43 Vietnamese were caught fishing illegally off a reef system in the Solomon Islands, while 50 others were fined $6,300-47,000 each for illegally harvesting sea cucumbers in Papua New Guinea. They will face four years hard labor if they fail to pay.


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## Viet

Back to the sky: Supersonic F-5 Tiger. The US could have her hands in assisting Vietnam to bring the birds back to life. Vietnamese airforce has some 114 Tigers in storage.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Back to the sky: Supersonic F-5 Tiger. The US could have her hands in assisting Vietnam to bring the birds back to life. Vietnamese airforce has some 114 Tigers in storage.
> 
> View attachment 394817



This will be quite hard.

We don't make F-5 anymore, and there are currently no support service offering to F-5, maybe you can contract NG to make it F-20 Tigershark? Or find one of the Air force that still uses F-5 (Swiss, Taiwan, ROKAF)

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## sahureka2

jhungary said:


> This will be quite hard.
> 
> We don't make F-5 anymore, and there are currently no support service offering to F-5, maybe you can contract NG to make it F-20 Super Tiger? Or find one of the Air force that still uses F-5 (Swiss, Taiwan, ROKAF)



For the truth, there is still someone who realizes it, or at least realizes many spare parts, and is in Iran.
But maybe there were a few of those F-5s, it was rumored that in the past many went to Iran and Ethiopia

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## Viet

Some special guests are expected to the Cam Ranh bay, Đà Nẵng and Nha Trang in the second week of May: Japan helicopter carrier J.S. Izumo and US fast transport vessel USNS Fall River (T-EPF-4). the ships and crews will stay for 10 days before heading to exercises in the Pacific.


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## Viet

The army is testing new developed reactive armor for the tanks.



Like an engineer: try to make a thing better.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Back to the sky: Supersonic F-5 Tiger. The US could have her hands in assisting Vietnam to bring the birds back to life. Vietnamese airforce has some 114 Tigers in storage.
> 
> View attachment 394817



Where did you get the number 114? As I understand, the south vietnamese air force had 40+ F-5s and I used to read that only a few remain now.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Where did you get the number 114? As I understand, the south vietnamese air force had 40+ F-5s and I used to read that only a few remain now.


from the most credible source: soha 

http://soha.vn/bat-ngo-lon-tiem-kic...u-cua-quan-doi-viet-nam-20170505100715095.htm
"Theo ước tính, thời điểm sau khi giải phóng Sài Gòn, Không quân Nhân dân Việt Nam đã thu được tổng cộng *87 tiêm kích F-5A/B Tiger* cùng với *27 chiếc F-5E/F Tiger II* từ tay Không lực Việt Nam Cộng Hòa."

of course today there are only few remained that could fly. not 114. they all once belong to South Vietnam

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## Viet

An unexpected guest is coming for an expected visit: General Fan Changlong. He is Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission, the official body that controls and commands Chinese armed forces. But the ultimate decision to make between peace or war is reportedly made by a small inner circle of Chinese communist party: the polibuero. Good to know: Mr Changlong is one of the members of.

Since the oil rig crisis Vietnam's trust to the Chinese remains extremely low.


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## Viet

The mainstay of Vietnam's coastal defense against assaults of large enemy warships as amphibious troop transport craft, frigate, destroyer and aircraft carrier: Yakhont antiship missiles. The engineering corps reportedly have some success in producing spare parts for the missile complex saving necessary imports from Russia.




















Life isn't easy.

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## Aqsuperman

Usage of captured US-made aircraft in the VPAF.


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## Viet

Hanoi, May 5. Receiving Japanese Ambassador to Vietnam Kunio Umeda to discuss preparations for the Vietnamese PM Nguyen’s upcoming official visit to Japan. Nguyen will hold talks with Shinzo Abe and members of parliament. Vietnam and Japan are expected to sign many agreements in economy, trade and defense, probably also the terms of a Japanese led TPP-11. Vietnam is not much happy of decline of Japan.







on patrol at sea














tank assault


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## Viet

Nice sport cars for transporting the incoming APEC Vietnam 2017 guests: Audi Sportback 5 edition. the german car maker is selected to provide the cars and driver training for 600 drivers of Vietnam security services.



























Meanwhile the APEC 2017 special guests of Vietnam Foreign Office will be chaffeured by 25 pieces of Mercedes S400L car edition 


















It will be a big event again like last year when Barack Obama visited Vietnam. Again, security will be put on highest alert when Donald Trump arrives the city of Da Nang in November. I wonder whether the city will complete all projects on time.


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## Viet

*Vietnamese-Korean advises a presidential candidate *
Posted : 2017-04-14 14:01
The Korea Times

By Kim Ji-soo






_Won Ok-kum was named an honorary mayor of Seoul in October 2016. / Courtesy of Won Ok-kum _

*Nguyen Ngoc Cam* smiled broadly as she pulled out three name cards from her purse on meeting this reporter _ one for her role as an honorary mayor of Seoul, one for her role as president of the translation and interpretation company Dong Hanh, and the third for her role as a representative of Vietnam Community in Seoul. The latter is a group representing the interests of Vietnamese people in the greater Seoul area.

Nguyen also has a Korean name, *Won Ok-kum*.

At her office in Mangwon-dong, northwestern Seoul, April 5, the vivacious mother of two children was in the midst of a meeting with fellow Vietnamese Trieu Van Manh. Trieu had just been released from a detention center at Incheon International Airport, 20 days after the Korean company he worked for, a construction firm, had illegally cancelled his work contract.

With interpretation and translation help from Won, Trieu was released from detention and will start work with the same employer.

This is what Won does a lot these days, helping Vietnamese people in Korea who are caught in a legal conundrum for one reason or another.

As head of Vietnam Community, Won has been tapped to help *Moon Jae-in*, the presidential candidate of the liberal Democratic Party of Korea, work with a group of female advisers on policies for women. This is not the first time she has worked with Moon; she participated in his first presidential bid in 2012. Moon is currently enjoying the lead over the four other candidates for the May 9 presidential election. They are Ahn Cheol-soo of the minor liberal People's Party; Yoo Seong-min of the Bareun Party, Hong Joon-pyo of Liberty Korea Party and Sim Sang-jung of the opposition Justice Party.

All candidates have a group of advisers, but Moon has several that focus on specific issues. And having an advisory group on women's issues seems fitting. Even though Korea has seen significant progress in women's rights in recent years, women here, who comprise half the voters, still face more challenges regarding housework, marriage and other social norms.

*"I would like to propose a fairer distribution of welfare benefits across a range of foreign residents in Korea," *Won said. There are an estimated 2.1 million foreign residents in Seoul, about 1.1 million of whom are women. But welfare benefits are currently given to only 280,000 people mainly in multicultural families, she said.

"But there is a far larger number of people who come to Korea to study, live and work, and we should build counseling centers for these people too," she said. She also recommended providing other benefits to foreign residents and their families, such as expanding government subsidies for their children.

She joined the group that includes a wide range of women experts in various fields including Choi Gyeong-sook, the former chief of an anti-nuclear group; Pi Woo-jin, the nation's first female military helicopter pilot; and Choi Hyeong-sook, chief of Intree, a group that supports single mothers and others.

The advisory group met on April 2 at a cafe in Mapo, Seoul, during which each member presented her policy recommendations. Moon did not come, but Won hopes to meet him in person.

As a Vietnamese married to a Korean, Won sees similarities between Moon's work as a human rights lawyer and the causes she promotes for Vietnamese residents in Korea.

Won is originally from Dong Nai in Vietnam. She met her Korean husband while he was working on a construction site in Vietnam where she was serving as an interpreter. They got married, and she came to Korea in 1997.

"Twenty years, I have been living in Korea," she said, smiling broadly. Asked on the top challenges she faced adjusting to a new life in Korea, she paused for a while before saying cautiously, "I experienced prejudice. It was prejudice either in the form of people ignoring me because I was a foreigner, or by speaking to me in ‘banmal,'" Won said, referring the casual form of speech in Korean that is in contrast to the polite form people usually use when meeting someone for the first time or speaking to someone older.

She said she didn't mention this experience at the Sunday meeting of female advisers. However, she has been working with foreign residents' groups to have an anti-prejudice law legislated.

"(The anti-prejudice law) won't just be about the foreign residents in Seoul, but any group that is in the minority, including gender minority groups and others," she said.

Won said she has always been an active even back in Vietnam. After arriving in Seoul, she majored in law at *Korea National Open University*, where she graduated in February 2011. She then pursued graduate studies in judicial affairs at the Graduate School of Public Administration at Konkuk University in Seoul, where she graduated in August 2013. She has done a lot of interpretation work in courts. For instance, the week of the interview, she was at the Labor Court, and on Thursday, she headed to Uijeongbu, Gyeonggi Province, where she will interpret for victims in sexual assault cases.

She had experienced hardship and insecurity for much of her first 15 years in Korea, and she said money, though important, was not the main factor in her decision to do interpretation work. "Now, people see me as a role model, and I like being involved," she said. The Vietnam Community in Seoul was launched in 2014, and while there are other such community groups, this one is considered to have been set up "early" among the foreign residents in Korea, she said.

Can we expect to see her become the next foreign-born National Assembly lawmaker, following former ruling party lawmaker Jasmine Lee, who is from the Philippines?

"No, I think I am too under-qualified," she said.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2017/04/120_227558.html

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## Carlosa

*Chinese naval fleet starts friendly visit to Vietnam*
Source: Xinhua| 2017-05-06 18:34:33 |Editor: Xiang Bo

HO CHI MINH CITY, May 6 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese naval fleet on Saturday arrived at Ho Chi Minh City in south Vietnam for a four-day friendly visit to the Southeast Asian country.

At 10:00 am (0300 GMT), two Chinese naval ships, missile destroyer Changchun and missile frigate Jingzhou, docked at the Saigon Port in Ho Chi Minh City, and were warmly received at a welcome ceremony held by the Vietnamese navy.

After the ceremony, representatives of Vietnamese navy, Chinese embassy and consulate in Vietnam, Chinese enterprises, Chinese students studying in Vietnam and overseas Chinese in Vietnam visited the Changchun missile destroyer.

Commander of the Chinese navy fleet Shen Hao is expected to meet Vietnamese military and civilian officials. The two sides will hold a series of activities including receptions on the deck, cultural and sports competitions.

Missile frigate Jingzhou will be open to overseas Chinese in local communities, Vietnamese naval officers and soldiers.


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## Viet

No new picture of Chinese warships in Vietnam with the lead ship the destroyer Changchun but this image is from last visit to the Cam Ranh bay: frigates _Xiangtan_ and _Zhoushan._

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## Viet

Donald Trump signs a law declaring March 29th as Vietnam war veterans day.

https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...rage-displaying-flag-honor-vietnam-vets/amp/?







March 29, 1973 is the day when the last US combat troops left Vietnam. The last hope of America, the well armed Southern Vietnamese army could hold on the positions ends in tears, when an all-out assault of North Vietnamese army overran the Southern Republic army. For the still living US Vietnam war veterans, the day may be a late recognition, with most of them still feeling bitterness, all sacrifices were worthless and betrayed by the politics. Ok nobody in America seems thinking too much about Vietnamese casualties. A war in a wrong place, wrong time.

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## 帅的一匹

Viet said:


> No new picture of Chinese warships in Vietnam with the lead ship the destroyer Changchun but this image is from last visit to the Cam Ranh bay: frigates _Xiangtan_ and _Zhoushan._
> 
> View attachment 395198


For friendship and peace.



Viet said:


> Donald Trump signs a law declaring March 29th as Vietnam war veterans day.
> 
> https://americanmilitarynews.com/20...rage-displaying-flag-honor-vietnam-vets/amp/?
> 
> View attachment 395220
> 
> 
> 
> March 29, 1973 is the day when the last US combat troops left Vietnam. The last hope of America, the well armed Southern Vietnamese army could hold on the positions ends in tears, when an all-out assault of North Vietnamese army overran the Southern Republic army. For the still living US Vietnam war veterans, the day may be a late recognition, with most of them still feeling bitterness, all sacrifices were worthless and betrayed by the politics. Ok nobody in America seems thinking too much about Vietnamese casualties. A war in a wrong place, wrong time.
> 
> View attachment 395213
> View attachment 395214
> View attachment 395215
> View attachment 395216
> 
> View attachment 395219
> 
> View attachment 395217
> View attachment 395218


Too many people died in Vietnam war, it's a disaster.


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## xiao qi

President Tran Dai Quang to pay State visit to China
_President Tran Dai Quang and his spouse will pay a State visit to China and attend the high-level forum on the Belt and Road Initiative from May 11-15, the Foreign Ministry announced on May 5._
_




President Tran Dai Quang 

The President’s visit and attendance at the forum will be made at the invitation of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China and President of China, Xi Jinping.
_

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## cnleio

Viet said:


> No new picture of Chinese warships in Vietnam with the lead ship the destroyer Changchun but this image is from last visit to the Cam Ranh bay: frigates _Xiangtan_ and _Zhoushan._
> 
> View attachment 395198


Type054A FFG and Type052C DDG visiting Vietnam

【中国海军远航访问编队抵达越南胡志明市】 中国海军远航访问编队今天上午抵达越南胡志明市西贡港码头，开始为期4天的友好访问。访问期间，中越两国海军官兵将开展参观交流、体育比赛等活动。导弹护卫舰荆州舰将向越南当地民众开放。

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## Viet

Good pictures: PLA destroyer 150 (Chang Chun) and frigate 532 (Jing Zhou)










Vietnam Gepard frigates. We probably need 10 more years to acquire the expertise, all technologies, all other things to mass produce frigates and destroyers. Last not least some little money more in defense budget.

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## Viet

The airforce tests some ammunition, involving Su30, Su22 fighter aircraft and attack helicopter Mi8.

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## Viet

US fast transport vessel USNS Fall River in Đà Nẵng. Probably a foretaste, what will come in numbers of US warships, when US president Donald Trump touches down the city in November.

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## cnleio

PLAN in Vietnam

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## Viet

Until recently very rare, now the Navy increases the frequency of overseas trips.

Gepard frigate 011 on the way to Singapore attending the 50th anniversary of establishing of Singapore Navy.






Coast guard vessel 8004 to China for a friendly visit









Cadet training sailship 286/Lê Quý Đôn to a visit to Brunei

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## Viet

Friendly encounter with the Siamese










.. and Chinese coast guard

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## Carlosa

Some pictures of Spratly Island (Truong Sa Lon):











Airport building / control tower:

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## Viet

Probably no other country embraces Vietnam more recently than the people of Kiwi. Welcoming a lady, New Zealand Ambassador to Vietnam Wendy Matthews in Hanoi foreign office. In short period of time New Zealand foreign Minister Murray McCully and Trade Minister Todd McClay make visits to Vietnam, to mention a series of events the country staged thru Vietnam. I think that is not a bad idea embracing Vietnam, especially if coming to trades. Look at the trade figures between Vietnam and South Korea. The kimchi folks increased VN exports at the fastest pace among all SK trading nations, up 356.7% from 2009 to 2016, making Vietnam to the third behind China and United States. The latest number this year looks shocking: Vietnam imports 63.1% more stuffs from SK in April. Samsung Vietnam expects to export $50 billion worth of smartphones and other gadgets from Vietnamese factories this year.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/south-koreas-top-import-partners/

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## Carlosa

Some pictures of Amboyna Cay (Đảo An Bang) in the Spratly Islands:
















Growing vegetables:









Water is a very valuable commodity and every drop gets reused if possible:

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Some pictures of Amboyna Cay
> 
> 
> Water is a very valuable commodity and every drop gets reused if possible:
> View attachment 395832


Typical Vietnamese they save money and cost wherever and whenever possible. Thanks to foreign expertise, we have toys of freshwater generators from some cheap solar powered (Carocell) capable of producing some liters per day, to geo-thermo powered, to 4,500 ton monster seawater desalination machine (Doosan), that is capable to produce 95 million liters of freshwater per day.

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## Viet

I haven't seen it before: Vietnam made anti aircraft gun, mounted on tank chassis during Vietnam war period.






...and gun truck today






Powerful 36D6 radar for S300 surface to air missiles, especially designed to counter a massive aerial attack by aircraft and cruise missiles. We may need in addition S400 to counter possible attack by ballistic missiles.

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## Viet

Vietnamese coast guard vessel csb/8004 makes history by paying the first ever foreign visit trip to *Haikou*. On the occasion some stats.

According to Vietnam/Chinese customs the 2-way trade reached *$98 billion* in 2016. China is Vietnam's trade partner #1, while Vietnam China's #1 in ASEAN.

China invests $684 million in the first quarter of 2017, no latest figure available of Vietnam investment in China. More than 10,000 Vietnamese are studying in China, whilst China has over 3,000 students pursuing education in Vietnam. 2.8 million Chinese tourists visited Vietnam, while 2.2 million Vietnamese made holiday in China in 2016.

All in all not too bad but far below potential.

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## Viet

Vietnamese T55 tank with improved armor. I wonder when much awaited T72/T90 tanks will arrive?

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## Carlosa

More info about the new terminal at Danang airport:

*Da Nang International Airport opens its new international terminal*
DA NANG Today
Published: May 11, 2017

Several major carriers in Viet Nam have begun operating flights and services at the new T2 terminal of the Da Nang International Airport on Tuesday.





Passengers at the new T2 international terminal (Photo: Tuoi Tre)

The new facility includes 40 check-in counters, *42 counters at immigration for exit and entry procedures*, along with 10 additional departure gates, according to airport management.

The new terminal is expected to serve some 6 million passengers per year.

A spokeperson from the national flag carrier Vietnam Airlines (VNA) said that all of VNA's international flights would now operate from the new terminal, beginning on Tuesday.

VNA will occupy 22 check-in counters on the 2nd floor of the facility, while baggage carousels and information desks for lost luggage will be arranged in a separate area on the ground floor.

A representative of low-cost airliner Jetstar Pacific said that all of the airline's international flights would also move to the new terminal, starting from today (11 May).

Vietjet currently has no international flights from Da Nang.

The 1st international terminal at the Da Nang Airport was inaugurated on 25 December 2011, with an annual capacity of between 4.5 and 5 million passengers.

_(Source: Tuoitrenews)_

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## Viet

Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang (R) and China's President Xi Jinping inspect honour guards during a welcoming ceremony outside the Great Hall of the People, in Beijing, China May 11, 2017. REUTERS/Jason Lee REUTERS









BEIJING (Reuters) - The leaders of China and Vietnam had "positive" talks about the disputed South China Sea on Thursday with neither side criticizing the other, a senior Chinese diplomat said.

Vietnam is the country most openly at odds with China over the waterway since the Philippines pulled back from confrontation under President Rodrigo Duterte.

Speaking after Chinese President Xi Jinping met Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang in Beijing's Great Hall of the People, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin said the South China Sea had been brought up in their talks.

"It was discussed but the main tone was very positive," Liu told reporters.

Both agreed to follow their consensus to continue stabilizing the situation and to keep pushing talks, as well as continue joint resource exploration in less sensitive areas, like the Gulf of Tonkin, he added.

"I think that talking about the South China Sea this time is really a positive piece of news. Neither side raised any criticisms of each other. There were no voices of that were out of step," Liu said.

China claims 90 percent of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan lay claim to parts of the route, through which about $5 trillion of trade passes each year.

Last year, tensions heightened between Beijing and Hanoi after Taiwan and U.S. officials said Beijing had placed surface-to-air missiles on Woody Island, part of the Paracel archipelago which China controls.

Vietnam called China's actions a serious infringement of its sovereignty over the Paracels.

In 2014, tensions between the two communist countries peaked more dramatically when China moved an oil rig into disputed waters and protests broke out across Vietnam.

Relations have since gradually improved with a series of high level visits between the two, though the military buildup continues in the region, including China's building of airstrips on man-made islands in the South China Sea.

In comments in front of reporters, Xi told Quang he hoped to take relations to a new stage to better benefit both peoples.

Xi also praised the leadership of Vietnam for its economic reforms.

"As a comrade and neighbor, we are happy to see this," Xi said.

Quang is in Beijing to attend a weekend conference on an ambitious scheme proposed by Xi to build a new Silk Road connecting China to Asia, Europe and beyond through massive infrastructure investment.

(Reporting by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Nick Macfie)

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## Carlosa

Some pictures of Southwest cay (Đảo Song Tử Tây), one of the Vietnamese islands in the Spratlys:

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## Viet

Vietnam FM Minh and Vice President Thinh on two separate visits to the country of the rising sun, meeting two men, that want Japan to return to the glorious past: Japanese Prime Minister *Shinzo Abe* and Japanese Crown Prince *Naruhito.* The crown prince is expected to pay an official visit to Vietnam by next year, probably as the new Emperor of Japan.

Why should Vietnam have any objection to a peaceful rise of Japan?


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## Viet

We welcome the peaceful rise of every country 

Beijing airport on May 11

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## Viet

The paratroopers in exercise (only the fighting spirit is high but people can notice the little money the little modern equipment).

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> The paratroopers in exercise (only the fighting spirit is high but people can notice the little money the little modern equipment).
> 
> View attachment 396393
> View attachment 396392
> View attachment 396391
> View attachment 396390
> View attachment 396389
> View attachment 396388
> View attachment 396387
> View attachment 396386



Same case with India. Well trained, good spirit....but the equipment is lacking in many areas.

But tbh I prefer that to other way around....since you can always add equipment as you gain prosperity and funding etc. Training and spirit however is another matter.

On another matter, annoyingly I lose the tag updates on this thread quite frequently. That bug means I got to come here and update/post or like something to refresh it (and then scroll past to see what I missed). Bleh.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> I reveal you an open secret: I don't say Chinese are bad people but there are probably too many outspoken Chinese blinded nationalists and dumb hooligans out there, driven by hate, never tired of dreaming to retake "stolen" territories, are especially encouraged when discovering Vietnam army is not well equipped. Even with increasing prosperity with the years to come we will never catch up with them in military spendings. Ok this fact is not new. They take advantage from our weakness like the Japanese took advantage when they re weak. If seeing from that perspective then we shouldn't blame them. But mostly I feel annoyed when noticing my posts are deleted or moved quicker than the blink of eye.
> 
> I try to update this VN thread, also thanks to @Carlosa, it may be the only place where VN military news is updated and discussed in English. I miss contributions from other Viet members though. Bad if this place dies a slow death.
> 
> Ok we don't want to forget the sporadic contributions of @xiao qi and other viet members.


Thanks @Việt when you dont miss my name on your post, Im too busy by learning and working but I always see the thread and support for our fellows, Sometimes I'm lazy to update the information from our military, so luckily when you and some Vietnamese on there did that, Im so grateful for your tireless efforts!

For Chinese members, Well, China is so big country and they have some bad and good people like ours, I believe we will have better relation with them in the future. From my opinion, we are trying to improve our economy and avoid the conflict with our neighbors. It is good for Vietnamese and Chinese. Make love not war.

@Nilgiri A long time no see, Are you fine? Sometime I saw the debating between you and Bangladesh member on there. I dont understand so much your status between two countries, But I liked for your comment. It is my encouragement for you. Fighting @@

@Carlosa You forgot my question in your inbox. so sad )

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## Viet

Rare picture: a Vietnamese coast guard ship to a visit in Haikou/China






Beautiful encounter: Sri Lankan Prime Minister Ranil Wickremesinghe in Hanoi

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## Viet

traffic policewomen


















riot policewomen

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## Viet

Vietnam Navy participates* CUES *Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea exercise in the Pacific. People may notice the Japanese helicopter carrier 183 Izumo.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Talking about other people in the thread, where is @Silent Knight hiding these days? Haven't seen him here for a while?


I am missing him too. Hopefully he is not invited to a cup of green tea because he revealed military secrets here

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## Viet

*B-52 US strategic bomber*

No other aircraft represents more the US military power. At the height of Vietnam war, the US airforce staged the largest aerial battle over Hanoi since the end of WW II with 207 B-52s and 2,000 fighter aircraft in the operation Linebacker II, with the aim to force North Vietnam to the knee. Along with hundreds of fighter aircraft such as Mig21, North Vietnamese S-75 anti aircraft missile played the key role in the battle over the sky of Hanoi.

Interesting, today the missile still plays an important role in Vietnam air defense, now equipped by modern electronic and guidance system.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I am missing him too. Hopefully he is not invited to a cup of green tea because he revealed military secrets here



Surely that's not the case, he is probably the one inviting others to a cup of green tea.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Surely that's not the case, he is probably the one inviting others to a cup of green tea.


He probably reveals Vietnam to receive the first batch of T72/T90 tanks this year by accident potentially upset sis Mado 

How's your business going?

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## Viet

*Watch that belonged to Vietnam's last emperor becomes most expensive Rolex ever sold*

By VnExpress 
May 14, 2017 | 12:50 pm GMT+7





The legendary ‘Bao Dai Rolex’. Photo by Phillips.


A legendary Rolex once owned by Vietnam’s last emperor Bao Dai sold for *$5,060,427* at the Geneva Watch Auction held by Phillips and Aurel Bacs on Saturday.

It set a new world record for the highest price ever achieved at auction for a Rolex wristwatch.

_Forbes_ reported the bidding war lasted for 8 minutes between 10 in-room bidders at the Hotel La Reserve in Geneva, and three bidding by phone.

The unique Rolex is a small 36mm yellow gold triple calendar moon phase and is the only known example with the reference 6062 with a black dial and diamond indexes, according to leading watch website _Hodinkee_.






A closer look at the Bao Dai Rolex. Photo by Phillips.

The watch’s history also makes it desirable to collectors.

Bao Dai, which means “Keeper of Greatness”, was the final heir of the Nguyen Dynasty, Vietnam’s last ruling family who reigned in Hue from 1802 to 1945.

Born Nguyen Phuc Vinh Thuy, he was officially made emperor in 1926 at th age of 12, but he did not take the throne until 1932 after returning from his studies in France. He reportedly went shopping for the Rolex when he was in Geneva in the spring of 1954 to attend the Geneva Convention, which split Vietnam into two.






Vietnam's last emperor Bao Dai.


A referendum in South Vietnam in 1955 removed him from the throne, and he spent the remaining years of his life abroad until he died in 1997 in Paris.

In 2002, his relatives consigned the watch for auction at Phillips. The watch went to a private collector for the then record-setting $235,000.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> As expected, I got my last post deleted by the mod. Of course that would not happen if it is a trolling post from a chinese member, talking about bias here.......


I would say bias is understatement, but if I used a stronger wording my posts would be deleted faster than the arrival of HSR in Vietnam 

Back to the thread. Sometimes it is only a little nice guesture that has big impact on the people. Navy personnel from America and Japan build a nursery school in Da Nang.


































Japan is a country, whose words Vietnam can rely on. Hanoi builds two more urban railway routes with a cost of $2.7 billion, with $2.3 billion funded by Japan government and Japan controlled Asian Development Bank ADB. Ok Japan is certainly not a charity organization. Japanese companies profit much from cooperations and projects in Vietnam.

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## Svantana



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## Carlosa

Good article about the Kilo subs:

*The Russian Stealth Submarine No Nation Wants to Fight (Especially America)*
May 14, 2017

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...bmarine-no-nation-wants-fight-20661?page=show





_The Kilo class of submarines were very successful in both a technical and export sense. A submarine meant nearly as an afterthought for Soviet allies became a legend in the eyes of NATO. Fifty-three submarines were built over a period of thirty-three years, often providing Russian shipyards with critical work that kept them open during the lean post Cold War years. In addition to Russian operations against Islamic State, as tensions in the South China Sea increase the possibility of a naval skirmish, we could see Kilo submarines in action in Asian waters._

Unlike the United States Navy, which went all-in on nuclear power, Russia maintains fleets of both diesel and nuclear-powered submarines. A land power encompassing much of Eurasia, Russian submarines are based much closer to “the action” than American submarines are. While Russia maintains nuclear submarines for distant ocean patrols, its fleet of diesel submarines is more than adequate for conflicts in Europe, the Middle East and the Russian near abroad.

The mainstay of the Russian Navy’s conventionally powered fleet are Project 877–class submarines, known as the Kilo class to NATO and the West. Nicknamed the “Black Hole” submarine by the U.S. Navy, the Improved Kilos are extremely quiet. The class has been built more or less continuously for thirty years, a testament to their effectiveness at sea.

The Kilo class was originally meant to serve the navies of the Warsaw Pact countries, replacing older Whiskey- and Foxtrot-class boats. The sub measures just 238 feet long by thirty-two feet wide, and displace 3,076 tons submerged. The ship has a crew of just twelve officers and forty-one enlisted men, and has an endurance of forty-five days before needing to be resupplied.

The ships are powered by two diesel generators and an electric drive, giving them enough power to make ten knots at the surface and seventeen knots underwater. They are not fast submarines. They have a range of six thousand to 7,500 nautical miles, meaning that from the Russian Northern Fleet headquarters they can patrol for one thousand nautical miles and then go on to Cuba.

Neither are they particularly deep divers. According to _Combat Fleets of the World_, the Kilo class normally dives to just 787 feet, with a maximum diving depth of 984 feet. The submarines do particularly well in shallow water, where a pair of ducted props powered by low-speed motoring motors likely allows it to operate closer to the sea floor.

A lot of silencing went into the Kilos. The hull is described as having the approximate shape of a drop of water and greatly reducing water resistance over older, World War II–era submarine designs. The propulsion plant is isolated on a rubber base so it doesn’t touch the hull, preventing vibrations from turning into noise that can be heard outside the boat. The ship has a rubbery anechoic coating to deaden noise emanating from the submarine, which occasionally gives the submarines a blocky appearance noticeable in photographs. The air regeneration system can keep the crew supplied with oxygen for up to 260 hours, giving the ship almost two weeks’ worth of underwater endurance.

The sensor suite consists of the MGK-400 Rubikon (Shark Gill) low-frequency active and passive radar suite with a passive hull array. It also has a MG519 Mouse Roar high-frequency radar for target classification and mine avoidance. For simple surface navigation and search the Kilos are equipped with the MRK-50 Albatros radar.

Finally, the Kilos have six torpedo tubes of standard 533-millimeter diameter, and were originally configured to carry homing torpedoes and eighteen SS-N-15A Starfish antisubmarine missiles. On the last ships of the class, two of the torpedo tubes are capable of firing wire-guided torpedoes. Also unique to this class is a position for a seaman with a shoulder-figured Igla man-portable air-defense missile launcher.

Twenty-four Kilo-class submarines were operated by the Soviet Union, of which eleven are still operated by Russia. One was sold to Poland, which remains operational, but another, sold to Romania, is no longer in service. Ten were sold to India; nine are still operational while the tenth caught fire and sank pierside in August 2013. Iran has three Kilos, and Algeria has two. China had two submarines, purchased after the end of the Cold War.

Submarines were some of the first vessels Russian shipyards started building after the dissolution of the USSR. An improved version of the Kilo class, known as Project 636.3 or just “Improved Kilo,” was developed to rejuvenate a flagging Russian submarine force and gain hard currency from exports.

The 636.3 class was an all-around upgrade. The dimensions of the submarine are essentially the same, but the bow has been reshaped to improve hydrodynamic flow. It features improved quietness due to further isolation of the machinery, moving other machinery to areas where they would make less noise. The submarine also has 25 percent greater range than previous versions. Major sonar systems however are largely the same as in the original Kilo class.

One major improvement of the 636.3 class is the ability to launch Kalibur cruise missiles. Kalibur (the export version is known as Klub) is a versatile class of missile with land-attack, antiship, and antisubmarine warfare versions. In December 2016, the Russian submarine _Rostov-on-Don_ launched Kalibur land-attack missiles against Islamic State.

The People’s Republic of China was an early customer for the 636.3, buying ten submarines in the 1990s. The subs are apparently split between the East and South Sea Fleets. Another customer has been Algeria, which has bought two modern Kilos to supplement its pair of original submarines.

Vietnam bought six 636.3 boats, with five so far delivered, as the nucleus of an anti-access/area denial force against its traditional enemy, China. The two countries have a history of mutual hostility, currently stoked by Chinese oil drilling in a contested Exclusive Economic Zone and competing claims in the South China Sea. Vietnam purchased six submarines for an estimated $1.8 billion dollars—a real bargain.

Finally, Russia bought six 636.3 submarines to shore up its own submarine fleet. The last submarine, _Kolpino_, was launched in February from the Admiralty Shipyard in St. Petersburg. _Kolpino_ will serve in the Black Sea Fleet, where it could conduct future cruise missile strikes against ISIS targets. Russia has apparently halted further purchases of the Kilos, seeking to transition to the Lada class.

The Kilo class of submarines were very successful in both a technical and export sense. A submarine meant nearly as an afterthought for Soviet allies became a legend in the eyes of NATO. Fifty-three submarines were built over a period of thirty-three years, often providing Russian shipyards with critical work that kept them open during the lean post Cold War years. In addition to Russian operations against Islamic State, as tensions in the South China Sea increase the possibility of a naval skirmish, we could see Kilo submarines in action in Asian waters.

_Kyle Mizokami is a defense and national security writer based in San Francisco who has appeared in the_ Diplomat, Foreign Policy, War is Boring _and the_ Daily Beast. _In 2009 he cofounded the defense and security blog Japan Security Watch. You can follow him on Twitter: __@KyleMizokami__._


_Image Credit_: Creative Commons.

_This first appeared in October and is being reposted due to reader interest. _

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## Viet

*What Possible Revival of 'Tiger' Fighter Jets Could Mean for Vietnam's Aviation*

MILITARY & INTELLIGENCE
15:48 15.05.2017

In an interview with Sputnik, expert on combat aviation Makar Aksenenko said that Vietnam may be considering bringing back the “Vietnamese Tigers” or the F-5E/F Tiger II fighter jets. What could be the possible reasons behind this decision and how might these jets come in handy?








It is known that in the mid-1970s, the VNA Air Force inherited a very large fleet of military aircraft und American-made helicopters from South Vietnam. These included the multipurpose F-5A / B Tiger and F-5E / F Tiger II fighters.

The second generation ‘Tigers’ were almost new and for some 10 years the F-5 was operated in the Air Force by a united Vietnam and even took part in local military operations.

Vietnam handed over several of these aircraft to the Soviet Union, Poland and then-Czechoslovakia for testing. It should be noted that the Soviet test pilots who happened to test the F-5 in flight sung the US aircraft‘s praises.

In the mid-1980s, for technical reasons, the F-5 fighters of the Vietnam Air Force were decommissioned and placed in storage bases.

There is indirect evidence that the aircraft are still in the Vietnamese "storages". It has been even reported that in a number of other states, Tiger IIs are still flying.

Currently, the US has lifted the arms embargo on Vietnam. Vietnam, for its part, is establishing military-technical cooperation with Israel, which has a rich experience in modernizing combat aviation for third countries. According to some Vietnamese media, there are reports suggesting the return of Vietnamese F-5s in the near future.

Is it really possible to revive this aircraft to full-fledged working order and how might it come in handy? Sputnik spoke in an interview with expert on combat aviation pilot Makar Aksenenko.

“In my opinion, if the Vietnamese Air Force has experience in operation and combat use of these fighters in regional conflicts and if Tiger IIs are still available in storage, kept in its dormant state, then it will be quite practical to try and continue using them after the repairs of original spare parts and some modernization takes place,” Aksenenko said.

He further said that he does not exclude that the Vietnamese side will resort to repairing the F-5 with the help of Israeli aviation companies, which successfully modernized this type of aircraft for third countries, for example, Singapore.

“Thus, the Vietnamese Air Force will be able to in a short time and quite cheaply manage to obtain a battle-worthy reserve for replenishing the fleet of attack aircraft,” the expert said. According to the expert, at present it is impossible to speak about any development of the air force in this case; because for that purpose there is a need for a new generation aircraft.

However, the military-political situation in the Asia-Pacific is quite alarming. There is a fairly high probability of a conflict, which could affect, directly or indirectly, all countries in the region. It seems that this situation undoubtedly is troubling the military-political leadership of Vietnam.

Hence, the return of the F-5 fighters from its reserve can be seen as a “mobilization measure to maintain the aviation segment of the military in a sufficient armed organization for the country's defense.”

In that way, the Vietnamese Tiger, according to Makar Aksenenko, will be able to perform a range of tasks such as the ability, “to strike both ground and surface forces of a likely aggressor. That is — to fulfill the standard tasks of fighter-bombers, which they did before in the Air Force of different countries (including the US itself).”

He further said that in order to gain dominance in the air, such aircraft is a bit outdated by today’s standards. “The resuscitation of the Tigers should only be considered as a forced measure in order to bring the Air Force to a state which will be sufficient to repel aggression,” Aksenenko concluded.

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## Viet

*Pakistan greatly values ties with Vietnam: PM Nawaz*
AAPP
May 14, 2017
PAKISTAN






BEIJING: Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif on Sunday said Pakistan considered Vietnam as an important country of the region and desires to maintain an economic and political relationship with it.

In a meeting with President of Vietnam Tran Dai Quang on the sidelines of Belt and Road Forum, the Prime Minister stressed the need for the two countries to strengthen and explore their business and investment opportunities.

The Prime Minister expressed satisfaction over the bilateral political consultation and working of Joint Ministerial Commission and Joint Trade Commission between the two countries.

He mentioned that Pakistan and Vietnam had been supporting each other at international fora on important issues.

The Prime Minister invited the Vietnamese President to visit Pakistan which he accepted.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/141795-Pakistan-greatly-values-ties-with-Vietnam-PM-Nawaz





*Vietnam president to visit Belarus soon *

Politics 15.05.2017 | 15:05






BEIJING, 15 May (BelTA) – Vietnam President Tran Dai Quang will visit Belarus in the near future, Belarus Minister of Foreign Affairs Vladimir Makei told the media on 15 May, BelTA has learned. “The Vietnam president will visit Belarus in the near future.

A number of documents are expected to be signed,” Vladimir Makei said. Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko held talks with the leadership of Vietnam on the sidelines of the Belt and Road forum in Beijing. The Belarusian leader also met with the heads of other countries of Asia, Africa, Europe and Latin America.

Read full text at: http://m.eng.belta.by/politics/view/vietnam-president-to-visit-belarus-soon-101263-2017/


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## The Eagle

Members: Stick to the topic in hand and avoid derailing.

Thanks


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## Viet

Vietnam airforce is small but formidable. Su30 fighter aircraft can carry a wide range of weaponry.

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## Viet

Gepard Frigate 011 to a visit to Singapore. An old friend is also present: Russia missile cruiser Varyag.

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## Viet

Maybe a cheap and quick fix for lack of surface warships of Vietnam Navy. Russia warship manufacturer Zelenodolsk with a 22160 ship class, 1,009 ton, naval guns, anti aircraft missile Igla and most importantly 4 x klub-k cruise missiles.

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## Aqsuperman

PK GPMG in VPA. From squad firesupport to vehicle mounted weapon and on tripod.

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## Viet

*Business Day*

*Small Countries’ New Weapon Against Goliaths: Hacking*




Le Thi Thu Hang, a spokeswoman for the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry, this month. Vietnam “does not allow cyberattacks on organizations or individuals,” she said.


LUONG THAI LINH / EUROPEAN PRESSPHOTO AGENCY
*By MIKE IVES and PAUL MOZUR
MAY 14, 2017*

HONG KONG — Hackers in Vietnam have been attacking foreign companies and other targets for years, seeking information and using tactics that suggest links to the Vietnamese government, a cybersecurity company said Monday.

The findings, laid out in a report released by the company, FireEye, come as companies and experts look beyond traditional sources of attacks like China and Russia to deal with new or rising threats. Smaller countries are now trying their hand at hacking, experts say, as they seek to follow dissidents, undermine enemies or comb corporate files for trade secrets.

FireEye, a company based in California that deals with large network breaches, said it had watched a Vietnamese group known as OceanLotus target foreign companies in the manufacturing, hospitality and consumer products sectors since at least 2014. While identifying hackers or the governments that might back them can be difficult, FireEye said OceanLotus had used tactics similar to those in attacks previously identified by experts as having targeted Vietnamese dissidents, journalists and governments at odds with the country.

The OceanLotus group “accessed personnel details and other data from multiple victim organizations that would be of very little use to any party other than the Vietnamese government,” said Nick Carr, a security expert at FireEye and the primary author of the report.

Le Thi Thu Hang, a spokeswoman for the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry, called the findings of the report “groundless” and said the country looked forward to working internationally to fight digital breaches. Vietnam “does not allow cyberattacks on organizations or individuals,” she said in an emailed statement. “All cyberattacks or threats to cybersecurity must be condemned and severely punished in accordance with regulations and law.”

FireEye experts said OceanLotus was the first of 32 state-linked hacking groups it had identified worldwide that was neither Russian nor Chinese.

State-sponsored hacking is “the new way to do espionage in the 21st century because it’s much easier to resource compared to a human operation,” said Tim Wellsmore, FireEye’s Asia director of threat intelligence. “This is a low-cost, high-return model.”

Plainclothes security forces in Vietnam, a one-party authoritarian state, regularly spy on journalists, activists and political dissidents, sometimes in almost comically obvious ways — tailing them by motorbike, for example, or eavesdropping in a cafe. Activists in the Vietnamese diaspora have also reported being targeted by what they say is state-sponsored hacking.





FireEye, a company that deals with large network breaches, said it had watched a Vietnamese group known as OceanLotus target foreign companies since at least 2014.
BECK DIEFENBACH / REUTERS


In a 2014 blog post, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group in California, documented what it said appeared to be a state-affiliated Vietnamese hacking operation that had targeted a range of people critical of the government, including an Associated Press reporter in Vietnam and a pro-democracy blogger in California. FireEye said OceanLotus employed a similar type of email phishing, using messages to bait victims into downloading malicious software or turning over their user names and passwords.

The report also documented the group’s hacking of companies from Vietnam, China, Germany, the Philippines, Britain and the United States. It did not analyze specific breaches in detail, but it said one European manufacturing company had been compromised in 2014 before building a factory in Vietnam. It also said that OceanLotus malware had been detected last year on the network of a global hospitality developer that was planning to expand into the country.

Ben Wootliff, who oversees digital security at the business consultancy Control Risks, said online crime was a risk for local and international companies in Vietnam for a number of reasons, including a rapid pace of digitalization and an improvisational business environment. “There is a lack of desire, awareness and capability to implement decent cyberhygiene,” he said.

The European Chamber of Commerce in Vietnam and the American Chamber of Commerce in Hanoi said hacking was a growing problem for businesses in the country.

“More and more companies have to hire experts and train the staff to understand the security risks that are part of their everyday working routine,” said Amanuel Flobbe, the chairman of the Information and Communications Technology Sector Committee at the European Chamber of Commerce in Vietnam.

Digital security experts say private-sector cybercriminals or activists are responsible for much of the hacking in Southeast Asia. But FireEye said OceanLotus was notable because it appeared to be state-sponsored and used some unique malware that was not commercially available.

By nature asymmetrical, hacking is a natural outlet for smaller countries to confront larger rivals. OceanLotus, for example, has attacked corporate and government entities in China that were focused mostly on oceanic development and fishing, according to a report by the Chinese internet security company Qihoo 360. That may indicate that Vietnam was *seeking to learn more about Chinese plans in the South China Sea*, where the two countries have disputes over islands and reefs.

The proliferation of government- and military-run hacking in developing countries also raises a broader prospect of what rules should apply to cyberconflicts. This year, the president of Microsoft, Brad Smith, called for a digital Geneva Convention to push back against a raft of political hackings that have targeted elections in the United States and Europe. Reports on other hacking efforts, like United States officials’ targeting of North Korea’s nuclear program and North Korean hackers’ attacks on Sony Pictures, have also heightened concerns.

Mr. Wellsmore said state-sponsored hacking groups in Asia were increasingly using multimillion-dollar tools to achieve their goals.

“That sort of level of sophistication is generally nation-state-sponsored,” he said, “because they’re the ones that have that strategic interest and are willing to invest that sort of money.”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/...companies.html?referer=https://www.google.de/


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## Viet

US fast transport vessel Fall River at the Đà Nẵng seaport

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam, US want to further defense partnership*

VNA WEDNESDAY, MAY 17, 2017 




At the meeting (Photo: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA) *– Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Minister of National Defence, hosted a reception for Senior Vice President of the US-ASEAN Business Council Michael Michalak in Hanoi on May 17.

The two sides spoke highly of the comprehensive partnership between Vietnam and the US, including the effective defense cooperation.

They expressed their hope to push ahead with efforts to implement the Memorandum of Understanding on the bilateral defense cooperation, which was signed in 2011, and jointly address post-war consequences in Vietnam.

Both nations also agreed to build on the outcomes of the negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement to step up the bilateral trade in the coming time.-VNA

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## Viet

Image with symbolism. I am usually sceptical but admit some agreements signed during Vietnam president high level visit to China look promising.

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## xiao qi

*VPA’s Chief of General Staff attends ACDFIM-14*

PANO – A high-ranking delegation of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA), led by Lieutenant General Phan Van Giang, Chief of the General Staff and Deputy Minister of National Defense, attended the 14th ASEAN Chiefs of Defense Forces Informal Meeting (ACDFIM-14) from May 17 to 19 in Manila, the Philippines, at the invitation of General Eduardo M Año, Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces of the Philippines.





Lieutenant General Phan Van Giang, Chief of the General Staff and Deputy Minister of National Defense. Photo: VNA
The Vietnamese defense delegation availed itself of this opportunity to heighten the country’s role and position in the region and the world via active activities at multilateral military-defense forums, contributing to asserting the external policy of multilateralization and diversification as well as the proactive policy of active international integration of the Party and State of Vietnam. Thus, the country will promote joint efforts to maintain peace, stability and development in the region, to realize goals of the ASEAN Political-Security Community, and to support the host country in its role of ASEAN’s rotating presidency.


Under the theme “ASEAN Chiefs of Defense Forces: All partners for changes and cooperation commitment,” the participants will listen to speeches by participating defense delegations and sharing views on maritime security and counter-terrorism.

In addition, the 14th ASEAN Military Operations Informal Meeting (AMOIM-14), the 14th ASEAN Military Intelligence Informal Meeting (AMIIM-14) also took place at the same time within the framework of ACDFIM-14.
http://en.qdnd.vn/military/defence-...ief-of-general-staff-attends-acdfim-14-480987

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam, US want to further defense partnership*
> 
> VNA WEDNESDAY, MAY 17, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At the meeting (Photo: VNA)
> 
> *Hanoi (VNA) *– Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, Deputy Minister of National Defence, hosted a reception for Senior Vice President of the US-ASEAN Business Council Michael Michalak in Hanoi on May 17.
> 
> The two sides spoke highly of the comprehensive partnership between Vietnam and the US, including the effective defense cooperation.
> 
> They expressed their hope to push ahead with efforts to implement the Memorandum of Understanding on the bilateral defense cooperation, which was signed in 2011, and jointly address post-war consequences in Vietnam.
> 
> Both nations also agreed to build on the outcomes of the negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) agreement to step up the bilateral trade in the coming time.-VNA



I saw them standing right next to each other (US and Vietnam) because of alphabetical order, at the RSN naval anniversary meet. It was good to see....former adversaries now becoming close friends.

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## Viet

Interesting: the obor event in China offers Vietnam delegation more meetings with foreign leaders than ever possible in the homeland. Conclusion: we should always go to China whenever there is any major international event, regardless of any fruitful outcome with the Chinese or not. The man of the day that probably now holds the fate of Donald Trump: comrade Vladimir Putin. He knows where all dead bodies were buried. Ha ha. Also no surprise the more tensions between Vietnam and China the more the smart Russians profit from the disaster. From oil/gas exploration in the SC sea and Russian waters to weapon purchases to nuclear cooperations.

The way to go

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## Viet

Political high explosive theme Tpp or no Tpp (or else) is expected, when US and Canada trade ministers Robert Lighthizer and Philippe Champagne are coming to Vietnam. I think we will seek a bilateral deal with America, while negotiate with Canada on terms and conditions for a Japan led Tpp-11 pact.

The next logical step would be if Vietnam joins the NATO.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> *Business Day*
> 
> *Small Countries’ New Weapon Against Goliaths: Hacking*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Le Thi Thu Hang, a spokeswoman for the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry, this month. Vietnam “does not allow cyberattacks on organizations or individuals,” she said.
> 
> 
> LUONG THAI LINH / EUROPEAN PRESSPHOTO AGENCY
> *By MIKE IVES and PAUL MOZUR
> MAY 14, 2017*
> 
> HONG KONG — Hackers in Vietnam have been attacking foreign companies and other targets for years, seeking information and using tactics that suggest links to the Vietnamese government, a cybersecurity company said Monday.
> 
> The findings, laid out in a report released by the company, FireEye, come as companies and experts look beyond traditional sources of attacks like China and Russia to deal with new or rising threats. Smaller countries are now trying their hand at hacking, experts say, as they seek to follow dissidents, undermine enemies or comb corporate files for trade secrets.
> 
> FireEye, a company based in California that deals with large network breaches, said it had watched a Vietnamese group known as OceanLotus target foreign companies in the manufacturing, hospitality and consumer products sectors since at least 2014. While identifying hackers or the governments that might back them can be difficult, FireEye said OceanLotus had used tactics similar to those in attacks previously identified by experts as having targeted Vietnamese dissidents, journalists and governments at odds with the country.
> 
> The OceanLotus group “accessed personnel details and other data from multiple victim organizations that would be of very little use to any party other than the Vietnamese government,” said Nick Carr, a security expert at FireEye and the primary author of the report.
> 
> Le Thi Thu Hang, a spokeswoman for the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry, called the findings of the report “groundless” and said the country looked forward to working internationally to fight digital breaches. Vietnam “does not allow cyberattacks on organizations or individuals,” she said in an emailed statement. “All cyberattacks or threats to cybersecurity must be condemned and severely punished in accordance with regulations and law.”
> 
> FireEye experts said OceanLotus was the first of 32 state-linked hacking groups it had identified worldwide that was neither Russian nor Chinese.
> 
> State-sponsored hacking is “the new way to do espionage in the 21st century because it’s much easier to resource compared to a human operation,” said Tim Wellsmore, FireEye’s Asia director of threat intelligence. “This is a low-cost, high-return model.”
> 
> Plainclothes security forces in Vietnam, a one-party authoritarian state, regularly spy on journalists, activists and political dissidents, sometimes in almost comically obvious ways — tailing them by motorbike, for example, or eavesdropping in a cafe. Activists in the Vietnamese diaspora have also reported being targeted by what they say is state-sponsored hacking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FireEye, a company that deals with large network breaches, said it had watched a Vietnamese group known as OceanLotus target foreign companies since at least 2014.
> BECK DIEFENBACH / REUTERS
> 
> 
> In a 2014 blog post, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit advocacy group in California, documented what it said appeared to be a state-affiliated Vietnamese hacking operation that had targeted a range of people critical of the government, including an Associated Press reporter in Vietnam and a pro-democracy blogger in California. FireEye said OceanLotus employed a similar type of email phishing, using messages to bait victims into downloading malicious software or turning over their user names and passwords.
> 
> The report also documented the group’s hacking of companies from Vietnam, China, Germany, the Philippines, Britain and the United States. It did not analyze specific breaches in detail, but it said one European manufacturing company had been compromised in 2014 before building a factory in Vietnam. It also said that OceanLotus malware had been detected last year on the network of a global hospitality developer that was planning to expand into the country.
> 
> Ben Wootliff, who oversees digital security at the business consultancy Control Risks, said online crime was a risk for local and international companies in Vietnam for a number of reasons, including a rapid pace of digitalization and an improvisational business environment. “There is a lack of desire, awareness and capability to implement decent cyberhygiene,” he said.
> 
> The European Chamber of Commerce in Vietnam and the American Chamber of Commerce in Hanoi said hacking was a growing problem for businesses in the country.
> 
> “More and more companies have to hire experts and train the staff to understand the security risks that are part of their everyday working routine,” said Amanuel Flobbe, the chairman of the Information and Communications Technology Sector Committee at the European Chamber of Commerce in Vietnam.
> 
> Digital security experts say private-sector cybercriminals or activists are responsible for much of the hacking in Southeast Asia. But FireEye said OceanLotus was notable because it appeared to be state-sponsored and used some unique malware that was not commercially available.
> 
> By nature asymmetrical, hacking is a natural outlet for smaller countries to confront larger rivals. OceanLotus, for example, has attacked corporate and government entities in China that were focused mostly on oceanic development and fishing, according to a report by the Chinese internet security company Qihoo 360. That may indicate that Vietnam was *seeking to learn more about Chinese plans in the South China Sea*, where the two countries have disputes over islands and reefs.
> 
> The proliferation of government- and military-run hacking in developing countries also raises a broader prospect of what rules should apply to cyberconflicts. This year, the president of Microsoft, Brad Smith, called for a digital Geneva Convention to push back against a raft of political hackings that have targeted elections in the United States and Europe. Reports on other hacking efforts, like United States officials’ targeting of North Korea’s nuclear program and North Korean hackers’ attacks on Sony Pictures, have also heightened concerns.
> 
> Mr. Wellsmore said state-sponsored hacking groups in Asia were increasingly using multimillion-dollar tools to achieve their goals.
> 
> “That sort of level of sophistication is generally nation-state-sponsored,” he said, “because they’re the ones that have that strategic interest and are willing to invest that sort of money.”
> 
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/...companies.html?referer=https://www.google.de/



It's funny how the USA government ( US government and American people are two completely separate set of entities) is the one developing the most dangerous and crippling hacking tools, malware, viruses, and has a cyber warfare budget more than most countries military budget, but this pork chop wastes his time on some hacker in a third world country. He must be bored or have more funding than he knows what to do with.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> It's funny how the USA government ( US government and American people are two completely separate set of entities) is the one developing the most dangerous and crippling hacking tools, malware, viruses, and has a cyber warfare budget more than most countries military budget, but this pork chop wastes his time on some hacker in a third world country. He must be bored or have more funding than he knows what to do with.


The thing is the people working for US secret services usually don't waste too much time in thinking the weapon they develop can one day turn against them. The best hackers in the scene including the ones employed by the US government think they are the smartest. Well maybe we shouldn't blame the NSA coders that developed EternalBlue exploit. Nobody is sane nor innocent.

Expecting the NSA to stop developing cyberattack tools after this disaster is naive. I would guess some people in Vietnam government and big enterprises will begin to think investing more in cybersecurity will pay off.


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## AViet

Viet said:


> The thing is the people working for US secret services usually don't waste too much time in thinking the weapon they develop can one day turn against them. The best hackers in the scene including the ones employed by the US government think they are the smartest. Well maybe we shouldn't blame the NSA coders that developed EternalBlue exploit. Nobody is sane nor innocent.
> 
> Expecting the NSA to stop developing cyberattack tools after this disaster is naive. I would guess some people in Vietnam government and big enterprises will begin to think investing more in cybersecurity will pay off.



Best hackers will be decided by IQ, hence I believe North Korea will secure some of the best hackers in this world. China, too. The US has clear disadvantage, if they want to turn highest IQ people in this world into their enemies.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Best hackers will be decided by IQ, hence I believe North Korea will secure some of the best hackers in this world. China, too. The US has clear disadvantage, if they want to turn highest IQ people in this world into their enemies.


have you ever wondered why most successful software companies come from America: google, facebook, microsoft, sun microsystems, cisco, juniper, ibm, vmware, etc? why not from Japan, China, Korea, Germany, France and the rest? no, the best coder/programmer is not the one with highest IQ. you need both: high IQ and logical thinking. many people are smart, but they are unable to write a single code. however, the best coders are the most weirdest people, much similar to best chess players, they live in their virtual world. Unfortunately I have no chance to join the NSA. the elite club is said to pay the highest salary.


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## Viet

IAG 4x4 Guardian Tactical armored personnel carrier that provides a high level of ballistic and blast resistance











A delegation of Vietnam army general staff led by Sen. Lt. Gen. Pham Ngoc Minh on a visit to the UK Army Headquarter in York, meeting with UK Chief of Joint Operations Lt. Gen. John Lorimer. Vietnam is ready to take over the control of a level-2 field hospital in South Sudan from the British Army Command in the second quarter of 2018. It is expected Vietnam will deploy a group of Special Forces to South Sudan to protect the site.


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## Viet

For fans of US legendary assault rifle: brandnew Colt M16A1 in Vietnam Army inventory. Market price $2,500 apiece.












http://www.range365.com/colt-m16a1-reissue-coming-to-range


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> IAG 4x4 Guardian Tactical armored personnel carrier that provides a high level of ballistic and blast resistance
> 
> View attachment 397833
> View attachment 397834
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A delegation of Vietnam army general staff led by Sen. Lt. Gen. Pham Ngoc Minh on a visit to the UK Army Headquarter in York, meeting with UK Chief of Joint Operations Lt. Gen. John Lorimer. Vietnam is ready to take over the control of a level-2 field hospital in South Sudan from the British Army Command in the second quarter of 2018. It is expected Vietnam will deploy a group of Special Forces to South Sudan to protect the site.



After studying the war in Yemen, these vehicles seem to be sitting ducks for RPG's.

It's almost as if 5 soldier armed with RPG-29 can take out tanks, APC's, or combat 4x4 like the ones above. You can't beat that kind of trade off. It's like trading a pawn for a rook in every fight. The Saudi's are going to go broke fighting the Houthi who aren't even interested in heavy weapons platform. After they disable it with an RPG or two, they blow it up.

It may be that Saudi's just aren't effective fighters.






They're just having a field day with Saudi mechanized. What i don't understand is, why they do not salvage any of the vehicles they disable. They should at least remove the machine guns from those vehicle. If you compare this to Vietnam, they salvage un-exploded bombs. These would be a gold mine.

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## Nilgiri

TenLua said:


> After studying the war in Yemen, these vehicles seem to be sitting ducks for RPG's.
> 
> It's almost as if 5 soldier armed with RPG-29 can take out tanks, APC's, or combat 4x4 like the ones above. You can't beat that kind of trade off. It's like trading a pawn for a rook in every fight. The Saudi's are going to go broke fighting the Houthi who aren't even interested in heavy weapons platform. After they disable it with an RPG or two, they blow it up.
> 
> It may be that Saudi's just aren't effective fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're just having a field day with Saudi mechanized. What i don't understand is, why they do not salvage any of the vehicles they disable. They should at least remove the machine guns from those vehicle. If you compare this to Vietnam, they salvage un-exploded bombs. These would be a gold mine.



Saudis invested a lot into hardware, not enough into software. Software you need to have that natural drive and struggle and perseverance....that you inherit from sweat, toil and blood. It cannot be done "top down".

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## TenLua

Nilgiri said:


> Saudis invested a lot into hardware, not enough into software. Software you need to have that natural drive and struggle and perseverance....that you inherit from sweat, toil and blood. It cannot be done "top down".








It's painful to watch all those lovely looking hardware getting destroyed so easily.

Vietnam should reduce tank purchases and invest money and some R&D for something like the American M3. I can see these messing shit up.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> After studying the war in Yemen, these vehicles seem to be sitting ducks for RPG's.
> 
> It's almost as if 5 soldier armed with RPG-29 can take out tanks, APC's, or combat 4x4 like the ones above. You can't beat that kind of trade off. It's like trading a pawn for a rook in every fight. The Saudi's are going to go broke fighting the Houthi who aren't even interested in heavy weapons platform. After they disable it with an RPG or two, they blow it up.
> 
> It may be that Saudi's just aren't effective fighters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They're just having a field day with Saudi mechanized. What i don't understand is, why they do not salvage any of the vehicles they disable. They should at least remove the machine guns from those vehicle. If you compare this to Vietnam, they salvage un-exploded bombs. These would be a gold mine.


Light armored verhicle only offers limited protection, so against indirect assaults or roadside bombs, can never withstand a direct hit of modern RPGs. If the Syria rebels destroyed Turk heavy armored Leopard tanks with ease by antitank missile, how can light vehicle survive?

In general tanks are unsuitable in fighting in cities. Not since the battle of Stalingrad.

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## Viet

*Taiwan*

The island of the free world is a bit disappointed, because Vietnam sticks to one China policy, even signs a statement opposing any Taiwanese independence movement during the high level visit to Beijing. I think the Taiwanese people should not worry, it is a piece of paper, in reality we Vietnam and Taiwan are on the same boat, they can always rely on friendship and helping hands with Vietnam. Look, Vietnamese tourists to Taiwan rise to a record number in April (151% plus), while Chinese mainlanders are in free fall. Taiwan's President Tsai Ing-wen can be happy.







http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2017/05/17/2003670752

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## AViet

Viet said:


> *Taiwan*
> 
> The island of the free world is a bit disappointed, because Vietnam sticks to one China policy, even signs a statement opposing any Taiwanese independence movement during the high level visit to Beijing. I think the Taiwanese people should not worry, it is a piece of paper, in reality we Vietnam and Taiwan are on the same boat, they can always rely on friendship and helping hands with Vietnam. Look, Vietnamese tourists to Taiwan rise to a record number in April (151% plus), while *Chinese mainlanders are in free fall.* Taiwan's President Tsai Ing-wen can be happy.
> 
> View attachment 398044
> 
> 
> http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2017/05/17/2003670752



Do not understand what you are saying, Viet.

If you are talking about no. of Chinese tourists coming to Vietnam this year, it is 1.27 millions for first 4 months of 2017, *an increase of 61.1%* compared to same period last year.

About Vietnamese tourists going to China, I have no data. Can you show us the link?


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Do not understand what you are saying, Viet.
> 
> If you are talking about no. of Chinese tourists coming to Vietnam this year, it is 1.27 millions for first 4 months of 2017, *an increase of 61.1%* compared to same period last year.
> 
> About Vietnamese tourists going to China, I have no data. Can you show us the link?


2.2 million Vietnamese made holiday in China last year 2016. I have no number for this year yet, but I expect the number will rise by 10%.
http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/go...-beijing--beginning-state-visit-to-china.html

the number of Vietnamese tourists to Taiwan rises by 151% in April. we started at a low base though, not comparable yet to richer nations as Korea and Japan.
http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3167767


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## Viet

Minh Nguyệt, the spokeswoman of Vietnam military TV 









@Nilgiri

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Light armored verhicle only offers limited protection, so against indirect assaults or roadside bombs, can never withstand a direct hit of modern RPGs. If the Syria rebels destroyed Turk heavy armored Leopard tanks with ease by antitank missile, how can light vehicle survive?
> 
> In general tanks are unsuitable in fighting in cities. Not since the battle of Stalingrad.



Yup Russians learned that the hard way themselves when they sent tank columns into Grozny in the mid to late 90s IIRC several times (and suffered tremendously in those actions).

Ironic they didnt learn from stalingrad when they established that reality. Open plains, deserts and grasslands are a more natural tank environment.....cities and even canyons/valleys etc....are when they are made vulnerable.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Light armored verhicle only offers limited protection, so against indirect assaults or roadside bombs, can never withstand a direct hit of modern RPGs. If the Syria rebels destroyed Turk heavy armored Leopard tanks with ease by antitank missile, how can light vehicle survive?
> 
> In general tanks are unsuitable in fighting in cities. Not since the battle of Stalingrad.



Why? Because RPGs only work in the cities?

Tanks should be phased out. They were intended to break trench warefare stalemates. But if with modern RPGs easily destroying a mechanized battalion, as shown above, which included one of the best tank in the world, the Abrams tanks, it just not a wise investment. I'll take a 500 for 5 million trade in any case.

Tanks won WW1, aircraft won WW2, missiles will win WW3, provided winning is even possible in WW3.



Nilgiri said:


> Yup Russians learned that the hard way themselves when they sent tank columns into Grozny in the mid to late 90s IIRC several times (and suffered tremendously in those actions).
> 
> Ironic they didnt learn from stalingrad when they established that reality. Open plains, deserts and grasslands are a more natural tank environment.....cities and even canyons/valleys etc....are when they are made vulnerable.



1000 tanks vs 15000 RPG/recoiless rifle equipped dug in soldier on the open plaines. I can't see the tanks surviving. Obviously, just my opinion. You may have more knowledge to formulate your opnions on than me, but from operation Iraqi freedom, had Saddam integrated more RPG/infantry based anti-armor in his tank battles, his tanks may not have gotten steem rolled by US Abrams.

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## Nilgiri

TenLua said:


> 1000 tanks vs 15000 RPG/recoiless rifle equipped dug in soldier on the open plaines. I can't see the tanks surviving. Obviously, just my opinion. You may have more knowledge to formulate your opnions on than me, but from operation Iraqi freedom, had Saddam integrated more RPG/infantry based anti-armor in his tank battles, his tanks may not have gotten steem rolled by US Abrams.



Yah obviously open plains are not going to be easy these days either....not since yom kippur when the sagger teams scored multiple hits on israeli armour....and everyone took cues from that.

But it is easier for tanks compared to cities and enclosed ravines...you can load tanks up with anti-personnel ammo to deploy on open fields and lose a lot fewer (you are going to lose some obviously) as soon as the bearing and distance of the bogie is revealed (by firing).....compared to cities where the adversary has many more resources like elevation, roof tops, alleyways etc....that tank main gun simply cannot cover effectively....and the info on the engagement is slow to establish and changes much quicker anyway too.

If you commit fully to recoiless rifles and RPGs etc in open field, that makes the defense vulnerable to artillery and CAS....these days UAVs, recon and satellites play a big role in helping the armoured formations find the correct routes in the first place to give them the best advantage.

Its endless cat and mouse game basically. Whoever is best prepared overall will win....you are right that saddam went too hard on the armour numbers without beefing up anti-armour and armour support (CAS + recon)....but he never planned on taking on a full fledged superpower....at most to take on Iran....roughly a peer.

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## jhungary

TenLua said:


> Why? Because RPGs only work in the cities?
> 
> Tanks should be phased out. They were intended to break trench warefare stalemates. But if with modern RPGs easily destroying a mechanized battalion, as shown above, which included one of the best tank in the world, the Abrams tanks, it just not a wise investment. I'll take a 500 for 5 million trade in any case.
> 
> Tanks won WW1, aircraft won WW2, missiles will win WW3, provided winning is even possible in WW3.
> 
> 
> 
> 1000 tanks vs 15000 RPG/recoiless rifle equipped dug in soldier on the open plaines. I can't see the tanks surviving. Obviously, just my opinion. You may have more knowledge to formulate your opnions on than me, but from operation Iraqi freedom, had Saddam integrated more RPG/infantry based anti-armor in his tank battles, his tanks may not have gotten steem rolled by US Abrams.



You missed the cue completely.......

Today war is a combine arms warfare, which mean any one single unit itself cannot survive a battle. Be it tanks, fighters, RPG soldiers, Artillery and etc.

Think about it like this, how are you going to deploy 15000 RPG soldier in the field to defend a line? People move at around 2km/h, a RPG soldier can at most cover 2 km wide line in a single hour. But in a tank, you cover 2 km in about 1.5 minutes, by the time your soldier get to where the tanks was the tanks would have been gone 58 minutes ago.

Now, ty bunch the RPG guys up on a truck, and deploy a bunch of them quicker? The problem now would be, the guys is at their most risk when they are being transported in a truck, so how are you going to protect those truck or APC from A to B? I know? Why not we get some Tanks?

RPG soldiers may be good to have to defend a city, but when you are in an offensive or try to defend a wide open area, foot soldier's low mobility would become a baggage.

Tanks are used in Urban environment, in an offensive with infantry support, no trained tanker (I was a commander of a Bradley Platoon) would move into a city unsupported. You wait for troop support to clear out the area before you move in, in turn you protect the flank of the soldiers so they can protect you. This is how the war fought today. And that is what you got wrong.

@Davos may be more helpful on the subject, he is a Gunner on an Aussie Abrams

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## TenLua

Nilgiri said:


> Yah obviously open plains are not going to be easy these days either....not since yom kippur when the sagger teams scored multiple hits on israeli armour....and everyone took cues from that.
> 
> But it is easier for tanks compared to cities and enclosed ravines...you can load tanks up with anti-personnel ammo to deploy on open fields and lose a lot fewer (you are going to lose some obviously) as soon as the bearing and distance of the bogie is revealed (by firing).....compared to cities where the adversary has many more resources like elevation, roof tops, alleyways etc....that tank main gun simply cannot cover effectively....and the info on the engagement is slow to establish and changes much quicker anyway too.
> 
> If you commit fully to recoiless rifles and RPGs etc in open field, that makes the defense vulnerable to artillery and CAS....these days UAVs, recon and satellites play a big role in helping the armoured formations find the correct routes in the first place to give them the best advantage.
> 
> Its endless cat and mouse game basically. Whoever is best prepared overall will win....you are right that saddam went too hard on the armour numbers without beefing up anti-armour and armour support (CAS + recon)....but he never planned on taking on a full fledged superpower....at most to take on Iran....roughly a peer.



UAV, recon, and sat works both ways. In my opinion, artillery favors the defender over attackers. Of course you're not wrong. I'm just basing my point off of observation of the modern battlefield.

Western military have the luxury of air support on demand. They never really have to do any real fighting in this day and age. A single sniper will get an airstrike called in. It would be interesting to see what happens when that air support is nullified by heavy anti-air concentration.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Why? Because RPGs only work in the cities?
> 
> Tanks should be phased out. They were intended to break trench warefare stalemates. But if with modern RPGs easily destroying a mechanized battalion, as shown above, which included one of the best tank in the world, the Abrams tanks, it just not a wise investment. I'll take a 500 for 5 million trade in any case.
> 
> Tanks won WW1, aircraft won WW2, missiles will win WW3, provided winning is even possible in WW3.
> 
> 
> 
> 1000 tanks vs 15000 RPG/recoiless rifle equipped dug in soldier on the open plaines. I can't see the tanks surviving. Obviously, just my opinion. You may have more knowledge to formulate your opnions on than me, but from operation Iraqi freedom, had Saddam integrated more RPG/infantry based anti-armor in his tank battles, his tanks may not have gotten steem rolled by US Abrams.


No Tank won't be obsolete. It is and will be the king on the ground. Tank is offensive weapon, but it only works best if conjunction with infantry, artillery and airforce. Sending tanks into uncovered territory is suicide, unless your tanks are well protected and move fast. RPG armed enemy regiments pose great risk to tanks for sure, but are many examples where tanks overran enemy heavy defensive positions. The decisive battle of Berlin in WW II came to my mind, where one million man army of deutsche wehrmacht were annihilated by repeated massive onslaughts of Soviet tank armies.

Or during the Vietnam war, the north Vietnamese launched a massive surprise attack with more than 300 tanks supported by infantry and artillery against the southern republican army in the DMZ. The Easter offensive of 1972. despite having more than 1,000 tanks, south Vietnamese army was overrun and were in full retreat, until US jumped in stopping North Vietnamese offensive by massive bombing raids.

Not many pictures were available. Supported by artillery fire, North Vietnamese T54/55 tanks moved into the position before the battle.

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> UAV, recon, and sat works both ways. In my opinion, artillery favors the defender over attackers. Of course you're not wrong. I'm just basing my point off of observation of the modern battlefield.
> 
> Western military have the luxury of air support on demand. They never really have to do any real fighting in this day and age. A single sniper will get an airstrike called in. It would be interesting to see what happens when that air support is nullified by heavy anti-air concentration.



You forgot about tanks with APS, good luck trying to hit them in open terrain.
In 2006, an Israeli Merkaba tank with the Trophy APS system defeated 7 anti tank missiles from Hezbollah.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Saudis invested a lot into hardware, not enough into software. Software you need to have that natural drive and struggle and perseverance....that you inherit from sweat, toil and blood. It cannot be done "top down".


From the news the Saudi go to full drive, buying $110 billion US military hardware, but only delusional people believe the Saudi army has a chance against the Israeli army. Ok good enough against Iran. True money is a precondition but not enough to build a formidable army. That reminds me of our big neighbor in the northern front. Winning a war is actually a scientific undertaking.

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## Viet

Japanese helicopter carrier J.S. Izumo, destroyer J.S. Sazanami in Camranh bay


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## Viet

The bay has become logistical and supply base for all friendly navies.

@Suika

US aircraft carriers and accompanying warships submarines, destroyers and cruisers are welcome to dock at the bay for resupply of food, freshwater, fuel. You can also receive repair and maintenance. We charge at very competitive prices.


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## Suika

Camranh Bay will see many friendly ships in years to come.

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## Carlosa

A nice picture of Southwest cay (Đảo Song Tử Tây) in the Spratly Islands:

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> No Tank won't be obsolete. It is and will be the king on the ground. Tank is offensive weapon, but it only works best if conjunction with infantry, artillery and airforce. Sending tanks into uncovered territory is suicide, unless your tanks are well protected and move fast. RPG armed enemy regiments pose great risk to tanks for sure, but are many examples where tanks overran enemy heavy defensive positions. The decisive battle of Berlin in WW II came to my mind, where one million man army of deutsche wehrmacht were annihilated by repeated massive onslaughts of Soviet tank armies.
> 
> Or during the Vietnam war, the north Vietnamese launched a massive surprise attack with more than 300 tanks supported by infantry and artillery against the southern republican army in the DMZ. The Easter offensive of 1972. despite having more than 1,000 tanks, south Vietnamese army was overrun and were in full retreat, until US jumped in stopping North Vietnamese offensive by massive bombing raids.
> 
> Not many pictures were available. Supported by artillery fire, North Vietnamese T54/55 tanks moved into the position before the battle.
> 
> View attachment 398265
> 
> View attachment 398264
> 
> 
> View attachment 398267



Perhaps I rushed to stating tanks are obsolete. I was too near sighted when I said that.

With that said, for tanks to be effective a nation will have to dedicate too much resources and elements of their military into reinforcing it. Tanks cost a lot of resources and manufacturing capabilities to produce. My point is, it just isn't worth it. 

Yes, tanks have had victories that are decisive in the past, victories such as those you've mention; the battle of Berlin. But that came at a costly price for the soviet in both men and machinery when compared to losses by Germany. What I think is that the Soviet at the time were either too committed to their tank ground game or was unable to switch to a more effective air game. Their T-34 at the beginning of the war were the best on the field until German tiger tanks were fielded which were nearly invincible to the T-34. Even so, the soviet still allocated their resources into producing a vastly outclassed tank. The Soviet were in a fight for survival while Germany was fighting a multiple front war. Would you agree that had the Soviet redirected those resources and manpower into say.... something like the German multi-purpose tank killer/aircraft killer 88mm gun, their victory would have come cheaper in every aspect?

I would say tanks are the best in maintaining conquered contested territory, they're no longer effective in assaults when both side have comparable firepower. They are simply too bulky and slow for the modern battlefield.



Carlosa said:


> You forgot about tanks with APS, good luck trying to hit them in open terrain.
> In 2006, an Israeli Merkaba tank with the Trophy APS system defeated 7 anti tank missiles from Hezbollah.



Well, there was a case where merkavas were trapped in a ravine and was completely destroyed by RPG's. One tank out of hundreds lucky enough to survive is still a pretty bad ratio.

Tanks with APS such as electronic jamming and passive counter explosives have weaknesses easily exploited by a competent RPG crew. Angles and none guided munition. Such as those shot from a recoiless rifle or RPG-29. There is nothing to jam.

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> , there was a case where merkavas were trapped in a ravine and was completely destroyed by RPG's. One tank out of hundreds lucky enough to survive is still a pretty bad ratio.
> 
> Tanks with APS such as electronic jamming and passive counter explosives have weaknesses easily exploited by a competent RPG crew. Angles and none guided munition. Such as those shot from a recoiless rifle or RPG-29. There is nothing to jam.



I made a mistake, the event that I mentioned was not against Hezbollah, it was against Hamas in Gaza. No Israeli tank with Trophy APS system has ever been hit even that Hamas fired lots of Kornet anti tank missiles as well as RPG 29s. The Israeli tank losses were in 2006 against Hezbollah. The Israelis learned from that and in Gaza they only used Merkava 4 tanks with APS and the difference speaks for itself (no Israeli tank was hit).

I think you are confusing things, "electronic jamming and passive counter explosives" and APS are 2 different things. APS systems are active, not passive, they use a radar that detects the incoming missile or anti tank round and then fires a projectile to intercept it.

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## Viet

The buzz
*
Is Vietnam Really Planning on Bringing Back 50-Year-Old American Fighter Planes?*





Michael Peck
May 21, 2017


Is Vietnam really planning to refurbish its fleet of fifty-year-old U.S.-made F-5 fighters captured from South Vietnam? Or is this just a Russian ploy to spur Vietnam to buy Moscow’s warplanes, amid growing speculation that Hanoi may turn to the West for aircraft?

At stake are the F-5s captured in 1975 when North Vietnam’s Soviet-equipped armies conquered South Vietnam. Among the spoils of war seized by Hanoi was a vast array of U.S.-supplied tanks, artillery and rifles (including nearly a million M-16s). The finds were so great that unified Vietnam became one of the most well-armed nations on the planet in the mid-1970s. The haul also included eighty-seven F-5A Freedom Fighters and twenty-seven F-5E Tiger IIs, part of the Northrop (now Northrop Grumman) F-5 line of lightweight, low-cost fighters that the United States exported to numerous third-world nations during the Cold War.

Vietnam sent a few F-5s to the Soviet bloc for evaluation (where Soviet pilots were reportedly impressed with the Tiger II’s performance), while some of the remainder flew in support of Hanoi’s 1978 invasion of Cambodia. “The F-5E/Fs were reportedly more popular with their Vietnamese crews than were the Russian-built aircraft that provided the primary strength of the Vietnamese air force, which is a rather unique testimonial,” states one aviation website. “They were particularly appreciative of the comfortable cockpits and the ease of handling of the F-5. However, the lack of spare parts and replacements gradually took its toll, and led to a need for cannibalization and to the gradual reduction of the numbers of F-5Es available for service.”

In fact, Vietnam’s F-5 fleet is thought to have been totally grounded, a rusting footnote to a long-ago war. Until this week, when Russian media site _Sputnik News_ published a story titled “What Possible Revival of ‘Tiger’ Fighter Jets Could Mean for Vietnam’s Aviation.” The story cited “Vietnamese media” reports that Hanoi is considering bringing back the F-5.

That came as a surprise to some Western analysts. “My understanding was that the F-5s were really beyond repair,” said Zachary Abuza, a professor at the U.S. National War College who studies Southeast Asian security. “I was in Vietnam last month, and no one even raised this as a possibility.”

Most interesting was that the _Sputnik_ story was more than a simple news report on what would seem to be a minor Asian aviation issue. Instead, the story featured an analysis by a Russian military expert. Analyst Makar Aksenenko suggested that Israeli companies might perform the refurbishment, as they did for Thailand’s F-5s. He also saw it as a way for the Vietnamese Air Force “in a short time and quite cheaply manage to obtain a battle-worthy reserve for replenishing the fleet of attack aircraft.”

However, the article also concluded that refurbished F-5s would only be an emergency measure that would still leave Vietnam with a need for modern aircraft. Vietnam currently flies about forty Russian Su-27 and Su-30 aircraft, a number that has been depleted by several recent crashes—and a small quantity compared to its neighbor and rival China.

“Vietnam has publicly been in the market for trainers and new squadrons of fighters for a while,” Abuza says. “I kind of assumed that it would be a no brainer for them to get more Sukhois because of cost, values, reliability and familiarity. But that they are taking so long to make the decision may be making folks in Moscow nervous.”

In fact, there have been reports over the last few years that Vietnam is interested in buying U.S. and European military aircraft. In May 2016, President Barack Obama announced that the U.S. arms embargo on Vietnam had been fully lifted.

“Vietnam is one of Russia’s largest arms purchasers, if not the largest in recent years, and I am sure that Moscow wants it to stay that way,” says Abuza.

_Michael Peck is a contributing writer for the National Interest. He can be found on __Twitter__ and __Facebook__._

_Image__: F-5E Tiger II. Wikimedia Commons/Creative Commons/Peng Chen_


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## Viet

*Phu Quoc island*

Until recently the island is almost unknown, but it now becomes important in the strategic calculus, getting it to monitor the sea lane traffic between the SC Sea and Gulf of Thailand. Also, an ideal place to keep an eye on Thai submarines. Vietnamese and foreign investors will invest $16,7 billion into the island infrastructure. We can expect the island's naval base will get a facelift too, although all modernization will go unnoticed from the public. As usual.

The way to go


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Perhaps I rushed to stating tanks are obsolete. I was too near sighted when I said that.
> 
> With that said, for tanks to be effective a nation will have to dedicate too much resources and elements of their military into reinforcing it. Tanks cost a lot of resources and manufacturing capabilities to produce. My point is, it just isn't worth it.
> 
> Yes, tanks have had victories that are decisive in the past, victories such as those you've mention; the battle of Berlin. But that came at a costly price for the soviet in both men and machinery when compared to losses by Germany. What I think is that the Soviet at the time were either too committed to their tank ground game or was unable to switch to a more effective air game. Their T-34 at the beginning of the war were the best on the field until German tiger tanks were fielded which were nearly invincible to the T-34. Even so, the soviet still allocated their resources into producing a vastly outclassed tank. The Soviet were in a fight for survival while Germany was fighting a multiple front war. Would you agree that had the Soviet redirected those resources and manpower into say.... something like the German multi-purpose tank killer/aircraft killer 88mm gun, their victory would have come cheaper in every aspect?
> 
> I would say tanks are the best in maintaining conquered contested territory, they're no longer effective in assaults when both side have comparable firepower. They are simply too bulky and slow for the modern battlefield.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there was a case where merkavas were trapped in a ravine and was completely destroyed by RPG's. One tank out of hundreds lucky enough to survive is still a pretty bad ratio.
> 
> Tanks with APS such as electronic jamming and passive counter explosives have weaknesses easily exploited by a competent RPG crew. Angles and none guided munition. Such as those shot from a recoiless rifle or RPG-29. There is nothing to jam.


It is always bad to underestimate the enemy. The Russians developed T34 tank in absolute secrecy. The Germans had no clue of the new tank, were arrogant in thinking the Russians belonged to untermensch, hence never be able to produce sophisticated tank. When the Wehrmacht approached Moscow, T34 tanks joined the battle, the german armed forces were shocked because no antitank gun was able to penetrate T34 armor, worse, light german tanks were destroyed en mass. Well the rest is history.

Sure the Germans developed new tanks as Tiger and other tank versions to deal with T34, but the Russian tank with a new powerful main gun could destroy all German tanks at close distance. Worst, the Russians produced T34 in large numbers, replacing all lost tanks in no time.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> *Phu Quoc island*
> 
> Until recently the island is almost unknown, but it now becomes important in the strategic calculus, getting it to monitor the sea lane traffic between the SC Sea and Gulf of Thailand. Also, an ideal place to keep an eye on Thai submarines. Vietnamese and foreign investors will invest $16,7 billion into the island infrastructure. We can expect the island's naval base will get a facelift too, although all modernization will go unnoticed from the public. As usual.
> 
> The way to go
> 
> View attachment 398499


so beautiful I hope one day I can come to the great island, I usually spend my time to see information about the construction of Phu Quoc, the picture you uploaded belong to JW Marriott. I doubt about the military base on this island, We should not use the island for military purpose, only tourism


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> so beautiful I hope one day I can come to the great island, I usually spend my time to see information about the construction of Phu Quoc, the picture you uploaded belong to JW Marriott. I doubt about the military base on this island, We should not use the island for military purpose, only tourism


Nobody can live in peace if you are attacked. Since the red Khmer ran amok invading Phu Quoc in the 1970s, the island is heavily fortified. There is a huge naval presence on the island although there aren't much pictures.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Nobody can live in peace if you are attacked. Since the red Khmer ran amok invading Phu Quoc in the 1970s, the island is heavily fortified. There is a huge naval presence on the island although there aren't much pictures.
> 
> View attachment 398555
> View attachment 398556
> 
> View attachment 398557


The Khmer have no gut to attack these island again, If we exchange the island to become a military base It make the tourist have the unsafe feeling in their mind, I recommend the next island to Phu Quoc is Tho Chu, It even near Khmer than,and have more advantages to become a fortress.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> The Khmer have no gut to attack these island again, If we exchange the island to become a military base It make the tourist have the unsafe feeling in their mind, I recommend the next island to Phu Quoc is Tho Chu, It even near Khmer than,and have more advantages to become a fortress.


No worry sis, the Navy just occupies a small part of the island, which has nearly the size of Singapore. 4 million Chinese tourists will expectedly come to Vietnam this year, most visit Nha Trang. The nearby major naval base Camranh bay with more warships than sharks in the water apparently don't deter the Chinese too much.

Ah apropos ships. The US thru her ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius hands over the first batch of 6 highspeed patrol boats, Metal Shark 45, to the Coast Guard. Nice stuff.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> No worry sis, the Navy just occupies a small part of the island, which has nearly the size of Singapore. 4 million Chinese tourists will expectedly come to Vietnam this year, most visit Nha Trang. The nearby major naval base Camranh bay with more warships than sharks in the water apparently don't deter the Chinese too much.


Do you know the news from Kara cannal? Is it real or a joke? I sometimes hear about a new port in Vietnam, If I dont have the mistake, It named as Hon Khoai in Kien Giang province. Singapore and Malay are not fancy for this project in Thailand and support for the South Thai terrorism. If the project will become, I think It can affect to the island like Phu Quoc

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## Farhan Bohra

Can anybody translate this? Indian Embassy send this article to Vietnamese Govt last month. This is very weird, too much weird. I dont know the purpose of such acts.

*Thông cáo báo chí*

*PSLV-C37 phóng thành công cùng lúc 104 vệ tinh*

Vào 09:28 sáng hôm nay (giờ địa phương), ISRO (Tổ chức nghiên cứu vũ trụ Ấn Độ) đã phóng thành công vệ tinh Cartosat-2 nặng 714 kg cùng 103 vệ tinh khác bằng tên lửa đẩy PSLV-C37 từ Trung tâm Hàng không Vũ trụ Satish Dhawan, Sriharikota.


Đây là lần phóng nhiều vệ tinh cùng lúc nhất từ trước đến nay trên thế giới. Thủ tướng Narendra Modi đã gửi lời chúc mừng tới cộng đồng nghiên cứu khoa học vũ trụ và đất nước Ấn Độ vì thành tựu đáng tự hào này.


Đây là lần phóng thành công thứ 38 liên tiếp của tên lửa đẩy PSLV. Toàn bộ 104 vệ tinh đã tách khỏi tên lửa thành công trong giai đoạn 4 và đi vào quỹ đạo định sẵn. Tổng số vệ tinh của Ấn Độ phóng bởi PSLV hiện nay là 46.


Dữ liệu hình ảnh thu từ vệ tinh Cartosat-2 sẽ được dùng cho các ứng dụng bản đồ khu vực nội đô và ngoại thành, vùng bờ biển hoặc để quản lý hạ tầng như giám sát mạng lưới giao thông, hệ thống cấp nước, dò tìm lỗi nhằm cung cấp đặc điểm địa lý và nhân tạo cùng các ứng dụng Hệ thống thông tin Mặt đất (LIS) và Hệ thống thông tin Địa lý (GIS) khác. Các nhóm dữ liệu này có thể dùng cho việc quy hoạch đô thị của 500 thành phố theo kế hoạch quy hoạch Amrut. Vệ tinh nano của ISRO, INS-1 và INS-2 cũng được đưa lên quỹ đạo.

Ngoài ra, 101 vệ tinh nano từ 6 nước khác được phóng vào vùng không gian quốc tế, trong đó có 96 vệ tinh của Mỹ; các nước Israel, Kazakhstan, Các Tiểu Vương quốc Ả Rập Thống nhất (UAE), Hà Lan và Thụy Sỹ mỗi nước một vệ tinh. Cùng với lần phóng thành công ngày hôm nay, tổng số vệ tinh nước ngoài được tên lửa PSLV của Ấn Độ phóng dịch vụ là 180.


Nhiệm vụ lần này đối mặt với nhiều thách thức phức tạp về công nghệ như việc phóng cùng lúc một lượng lớn vệ tinh trong khoảng thời gian định sẵn. Ngoài ra, phải đảm bảo cả 104 vệ tinh đi vào quỹ đạo riêng biệt và phải duy trì được vệ tinh trên quỹ đạo về sau. Nhờ lần phóng này, ISRO đã nâng cao hơn uy tín của mình, chứng minh được mình là đối tác tin cậy tiên phong trong ngành khoa học vũ trụ.


One of my friend told me, such acts are deliberate attempts to target specific officials in Govt. inside Vietnam.

With this article, they also attached a "open-source" sat image.






Here is the original article I think

http://www.india-consulate.org.vn/v...-thanh-cong-104-ve-tinh-chi-voi-mot-lan-phong

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## xiao qi

Farhan Bohra said:


> Can anybody translate this? Indian Embassy send this article to Vietnamese Govt last month. This is very weird, too much weird. I dont know the purpose of such acts.
> 
> *Thông cáo báo chí*
> 
> *PSLV-C37 phóng thành công cùng lúc 104 vệ tinh*
> 
> Vào 09:28 sáng hôm nay (giờ địa phương), ISRO (Tổ chức nghiên cứu vũ trụ Ấn Độ) đã phóng thành công vệ tinh Cartosat-2 nặng 714 kg cùng 103 vệ tinh khác bằng tên lửa đẩy PSLV-C37 từ Trung tâm Hàng không Vũ trụ Satish Dhawan, Sriharikota.
> 
> 
> Đây là lần phóng nhiều vệ tinh cùng lúc nhất từ trước đến nay trên thế giới. Thủ tướng Narendra Modi đã gửi lời chúc mừng tới cộng đồng nghiên cứu khoa học vũ trụ và đất nước Ấn Độ vì thành tựu đáng tự hào này.
> 
> 
> Đây là lần phóng thành công thứ 38 liên tiếp của tên lửa đẩy PSLV. Toàn bộ 104 vệ tinh đã tách khỏi tên lửa thành công trong giai đoạn 4 và đi vào quỹ đạo định sẵn. Tổng số vệ tinh của Ấn Độ phóng bởi PSLV hiện nay là 46.
> 
> 
> Dữ liệu hình ảnh thu từ vệ tinh Cartosat-2 sẽ được dùng cho các ứng dụng bản đồ khu vực nội đô và ngoại thành, vùng bờ biển hoặc để quản lý hạ tầng như giám sát mạng lưới giao thông, hệ thống cấp nước, dò tìm lỗi nhằm cung cấp đặc điểm địa lý và nhân tạo cùng các ứng dụng Hệ thống thông tin Mặt đất (LIS) và Hệ thống thông tin Địa lý (GIS) khác. Các nhóm dữ liệu này có thể dùng cho việc quy hoạch đô thị của 500 thành phố theo kế hoạch quy hoạch Amrut. Vệ tinh nano của ISRO, INS-1 và INS-2 cũng được đưa lên quỹ đạo.
> 
> Ngoài ra, 101 vệ tinh nano từ 6 nước khác được phóng vào vùng không gian quốc tế, trong đó có 96 vệ tinh của Mỹ; các nước Israel, Kazakhstan, Các Tiểu Vương quốc Ả Rập Thống nhất (UAE), Hà Lan và Thụy Sỹ mỗi nước một vệ tinh. Cùng với lần phóng thành công ngày hôm nay, tổng số vệ tinh nước ngoài được tên lửa PSLV của Ấn Độ phóng dịch vụ là 180.
> 
> 
> Nhiệm vụ lần này đối mặt với nhiều thách thức phức tạp về công nghệ như việc phóng cùng lúc một lượng lớn vệ tinh trong khoảng thời gian định sẵn. Ngoài ra, phải đảm bảo cả 104 vệ tinh đi vào quỹ đạo riêng biệt và phải duy trì được vệ tinh trên quỹ đạo về sau. Nhờ lần phóng này, ISRO đã nâng cao hơn uy tín của mình, chứng minh được mình là đối tác tin cậy tiên phong trong ngành khoa học vũ trụ.
> 
> 
> One of my friend told me, such acts are deliberate attempts to target specific officials in Govt. inside Vietnam.
> 
> With this article, they also attached a "open-source" sat image.


It said At 9:30am, India already launched a satellite to orbit. It is very successful and is 104th satellite was launched by India center in Sriharikota. The whole article want to say about Indian missile, satellite and how powerful they are on this, I guess India want to introduce to Vietnamese counterpart, If the Vietnamese want to buy these things They can view in India

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## Viet

Typical Vietnam's pingpong diplomacy, a dance on a thin wire

Beijing May 22, Chinese Vice President Li Yuanchao receives a Vietnamese youth delegation, which is in Chinese capital to promote friendship with Chinese youths. Ok the usual phrase "good neighbors, good friends, good comrades and good partners." is also used.







Meanwhile a Vietnamese delegation led by Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc is expected to depart for Washington early next week for a high explosive meeting with Donald Trump in the White House.






https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphj...allenge-washington-on-trade/?c=0&s=Regulation

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## Viet

Japanese government sends the coast guard vessel JCG Echigo to Vietnam for a training visit. Nice: the Japanese promise to reveal some dirty tricks, including how they play the game of chickens with the Chinese around the Senkakus islands, in the EC sea. Why not learn from the best and adopt the tactics to the SC sea 

@TaiShang 

Taiwan has close cooperation with Japanese coast guard too, I believe.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Japanese government sends the coast guard vessel JCG Echigo to Vietnam for a training visit. Nice: the Japanese promise to reveal some dirty tricks, including how they play the game of chickens with the Chinese around the Senkakus islands, in the EC sea. Why not learn from the best and adopt the tactics to the SC sea


tricks to play with China coast guard ships? There are no easy way, but to deploy more and larger ships, or extend the retirement age of the existing fleet, hence bad operation conditions of the "grandpa" ships.

Take a look at the news reports from Japanese media:

Asahi Shimbun, Japan, Sept. 21, 2016:

海保船艇３５％が耐用期限切れ　尖閣対応で予算回らず

　海上保安庁の巡視船艇３６６隻のうち、約３５％の１２９隻が耐用年数を超えていることがわかった。漁業管轄権の２００カイリへの拡大で１９７０～８０年代に大量に建造した船が、一挙に更新期を迎えたためだ。エンストや水漏れなど老朽化は深刻だが、近年は沖縄県・尖閣諸島の警備に予算を優先配分せざるを得ず、更新が後回しになっている。

　海保が保有する巡視船艇（今年４月現在）は、外洋を航行できる中～大型の巡視船が１２８隻、沿岸をカバーする小～中型の巡視艇が２３８隻ある。耐用年数はいずれも２０～２５年。特に巡視艇の老朽化が深刻で、約４０％が耐用年数を過ぎている。このままでは、５年後には巡視艇の約６０％（１４２隻）、巡視船の２５％（３２隻）、船艇全体の約５割が老朽化する。

　現役の船艇で最も古いのは横須賀海上保安部所属の巡視船「たかとり」（３２５トン、全長４６・５メートル）で、船齢は３８年、耐用年数を１３年も過ぎている。

Translation:
*
1/3 of Japan's coast guard ships are now in bad conditions*. Japan currently has 366 coast guard ships in operation. Within the 366 ships, 129 of them should have been retired. But since the Japanese government doesn't have the budget to renewal them, these old ships, although *with frequent engine stall or water leakage*, are unfortunately still in service.

If the Japanese government doesn't allocate sufficient budget for ships renewal, *in five years, 50% of the Japan coast guard ships will exceed their retirement ages*.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> tricks to play with China coast guard ships? There are no easy way, but to deploy more and larger ships, or extend the retirement age of the existing fleet, hence bad operation conditions of the "grandpa" ships.
> 
> Take a look at the news reports from Japanese media:
> 
> Asahi Shimbun, Japan, Sept. 21, 2016:
> 
> 海保船艇３５％が耐用期限切れ　尖閣対応で予算回らず
> 
> 海上保安庁の巡視船艇３６６隻のうち、約３５％の１２９隻が耐用年数を超えていることがわかった。漁業管轄権の２００カイリへの拡大で１９７０～８０年代に大量に建造した船が、一挙に更新期を迎えたためだ。エンストや水漏れなど老朽化は深刻だが、近年は沖縄県・尖閣諸島の警備に予算を優先配分せざるを得ず、更新が後回しになっている。
> 
> 海保が保有する巡視船艇（今年４月現在）は、外洋を航行できる中～大型の巡視船が１２８隻、沿岸をカバーする小～中型の巡視艇が２３８隻ある。耐用年数はいずれも２０～２５年。特に巡視艇の老朽化が深刻で、約４０％が耐用年数を過ぎている。このままでは、５年後には巡視艇の約６０％（１４２隻）、巡視船の２５％（３２隻）、船艇全体の約５割が老朽化する。
> 
> 現役の船艇で最も古いのは横須賀海上保安部所属の巡視船「たかとり」（３２５トン、全長４６・５メートル）で、船齢は３８年、耐用年数を１３年も過ぎている。
> 
> Translation:
> *
> 1/3 of Japan's coast guard ships are now in bad conditions*. Japan currently has 366 coast guard ships in operation. Within the 366 ships, 129 of them should have been retired. But since the Japanese government doesn't have the budget to renewal them, these old ships, although *with frequent engine stall or water leakage*, are unfortunately still in service.
> 
> If the Japanese government doesn't allocate sufficient budget for ships renewal, *in five years, 50% of the Japan coast guard ships will exceed their retirement ages*.


I believe have read your post elsewhere. Bro, No Japanese don't lack money, they don't raise defence spending to a necessary level, because Japanese are the most peaceful people I have ever seen. People in Vietnam tell story, if one's money wallet is lost in Japan, you get it back 100 percent. If the same wallet is lost in Vietnam, ok you know.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I believe have read your post elsewhere. Bro, *No Japanese don't lack money*, they don't raise defence spending to a necessary level, because Japanese are the most peaceful people I have ever seen. People in Vietnam tell story, if one's money wallet is lost in Japan, you get it back 100 percent. If the same wallet is lost in Vietnam, ok you know.


If you have ever read the budget report of Japan government, you will know how bad its fiscal condition is. And that's exactly the reason why Japan could not match China's pace on warships building, or coastguard ships building. But this has nothing to do with this Vietnam defense thread, so I won't off the topic further.

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## xiao qi

*Pacific Partnership 2017 Visits Vietnam's Khanh Hoa Province*
KHANH HOA PROVINCE, Vietnam, May 22, 2017 — Pacific Partnership 2017 kicked off here May 20 for the final stop of the mission with the arrival of the U.S. expeditionary fast transport ship USNS Fall River.




Leaders from the United States, Japan and Vietnam answer questions at a news conference during the opening ceremony for Pacific Partnership 2017 in Cam Ranh, Khanh Hoa province, Vietnam, May 20, 2017. Pacific Partnership is the largest annual multilateral humanitarian assistance and disaster relief preparedness mission conducted in the Indo-Asia-Pacific and aims to enhance regional coordination in medical readiness and preparedness for manmade and natural disasters. Navy photo by Petty Officer 2nd Class Chelsea Troy Milburn


Pacific Partnership is the largest annual multilateral humanitarian assistance and disaster relief preparedness mission conducted in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region. The mission aims to enhance regional coordination in medical readiness and preparedness for manmade and natural disasters.

This is the eighth time in eleven years that this event has taken place in Vietnam. This year's events in Khanh Hoa include participation by personnel from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Japan. Sailors and crew from the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force's destroyers J.S. Izumo and J.S. Sazanami will also join mission personnel for the Khanh Hoa mission stop.

*International Partnership*

The Vietnamese government approved Khanh Hoa as a destination for Pacific Partnership, and the province collaborated with central government agencies and Pacific Partnership planners to organize the week-and-a-half event, with the aim of enhancing humanitarian aid and disaster relief and to promote the comprehensive partnership between the United States and Vietnam, as well as collaboration among partner countries.

"We are especially excited to be working with our friends in Khanh Hoa during Pacific Partnership's second visit to the province. I anticipate robust interaction working alongside our Vietnamese counterparts while conducting engineering projects at schools and clinics and medical exchanges," said Navy Capt. Stanfield Chien, Pacific Partnership '2017 mission commander.

"Our time here is about building relationships and the capability and capacity to work together in the future and join in community engagement activities," Chien added.




U.S. Navy Capt. Stanfield Chien, right, receives a welcoming gift from a Vietnamese government representative during the opening ceremony for Pacific Partnership 2017 in Cam Ranh, Khanh Hoa province, Vietnam, May 20, 2017. Navy photo by Petty Officer 2nd Class Chelsea Troy Milburn


In a continuation of the crisis management and response activities from last year's Pacific Partnership mission, Vietnamese and mission personnel will conduct subject-matter-expertise exchanges, provide training for Nha Trang city's life guards, complete renovations of the Hoa Mi and Son Ca kindergartens, and complete the delivery and installation of solar water heaters for the medical assistance facility located near Nha Trang. Also, the U.S. Navy's 7th Fleet Band will perform at Yen Sao Park as well as Thanh Nien Park, and mission personnel will have a music performance at the Phan Chu Trinh Secondary School.

*Regional Cooperation*

"After several very productive days in Da Nang, we're glad to see Pacific Partnership 17 cooperation continue in Khanh Hoa, ," U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius said. These activities will improve collective capacity and regional cooperation to respond to a disaster. Another very important part of Pacific Partnership is the high-level medical cooperation and knowledge exchange, thanks to over 60 international medical experts."

Pacific Partnership concluded a mission stop in Da Nang, Vietnam, earlier this week.

Now in its 12th year, Pacific Partnership continues to enhance regional partnerships and host-nation relationships through civil-military cooperation, medical exchanges and inter-government agency coordination.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Articl...ship-2017-visits-vietnams-khanh-hoa-province/

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> If you have ever read the budget report of Japan government, you will know how bad its fiscal condition is. And that's exactly the reason why Japan could not match China's pace on warships building, or coastguard ships building. But this has nothing to do with this Vietnam defense thread, so I won't off the topic further.


Yes I know half of Japan budget is financed by debts. And surprisingly the government of China buys Japanese government bonds, so financially supports the country. If Japan increases defense spending by 1 or 2 percentage point, the debts will rise further, it is not a problem though, as long as there are enough people out there, such as China, who buy Japanese government bonds.

True, we are a bit off-topic.


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## Carlosa

Pictures of Namyit Island (Đảo Nam Yet) in the Spratly islands:

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## Farhan Bohra

GS Zhou said:


> If you have ever read the budget report of Japan government, you will know how bad its fiscal condition is. And that's exactly the reason why Japan could not match China's pace on warships building, or coastguard ships building. But this has nothing to do with this Vietnam defense thread, so I won't off the topic further.



Cash strapped?

Just to let you know the Japanese investment and loans in India is alone larger than the investment Chinese done in OBOR until now.
And you surprise to know Japan planning to invest $1 tn in India alone in next 15 years.






JICA loans to India until 2013.

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## Zarvan

*Vietnam Receives Six US Metal Shark Patrol Boats*





Vietnam Receives Six US Metal Shark Patrol Boats
- A +
Vietnam’s coast guard received six U.S.-made Metal Shark patrol boats to improve its maritime defence capabilities in the disputed South China Sea.

The 45-foot Metal Shark patrol boats were officially handed over by US Ambassador Ted Osius to the coast guard Monday in the central province of Quang Nam, the Bangkok Post reported Tuesday.

The embassy said in a statement that the handover represented deepening cooperation in maritime law enforcement and humanitarian assistance in Vietnam's territorial waters and exclusive economic zone.

These patrols boats will assist the coast guard in intercostal patrols and law enforcement in smuggling, illicit trafficking, piracy and armed robbery against ships, and illegal fishing.

The Metal Shark 75 Defiant Patrol boat is capable of achieving 40+ knots. For the ideal balance of performance, economy, and reliability, twin Caterpillar C32 diesels mated to Hamilton HM-651 waterjets will propel the vessel to speeds in the 30-knot range.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19366/Vietnam_Receives_Six_US_Metal_Shark_Patrol_Boats#.WSQTXmh95EY

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Yes I know half of Japan budget is financed by debts. And surprisingly the government of China buys Japanese government bonds, so financially supports the country. If Japan increases defense spending by 1 or 2 percentage point, the debts will rise further, it is not a problem though, as long as there are enough people out there, such as China, who buy Japanese government bonds.


It's not just about a large portion of the budget comes from debts. What's even worse is *Japan's payment to interests alone equals to the combination of government budget for military, education, and scientific research.* That's a horrible picture to any country. 





With respect to China buying Japan's bond, actually the buy & sell of Japan's 3-month government bond is highly profitable. As long as you hold a large amount of greenback to lend to Japanese, you can secure a 4x of the US T-bill return through a swap transaction that locks in exchange rates. If you have a large amount of greenback in pocket, you can do the same. But I would suggest you to avoid long-term bond, only choose the short-term bonds.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> It's not just about a large portion of the budget comes from debts. What's even worse is *Japan's payment to interests alone equals to the combination of government budget for military, education, and scientific research.* That's a horrible picture to any country.
> View attachment 398721
> 
> 
> With respect to China buying Japan's bond, actually the buy & sell of Japan's 3-month government bond is highly profitable. As long as you hold a large amount of greenback to lend to Japanese, you can secure a 4x of the US T-bill return through a swap transaction that locks in exchange rates. If you have a large amount of greenback in pocket, you can do the same. But I would suggest you to avoid long-term bond, only choose the short-term bonds.
> View attachment 398724


96% of Sri Lanka government revenue goes to debt repayment, but China is little hesitate to loan more money to the country. Why? the same goes for Venezuela. ok the latter re-pays in oil. but Sri Lanka? ok, you get parts of the Sri Lanka. not a bad deal though. Yes the Japanese have a huge debt mountain, but the country has huge assets too, in Japan and overseas. And unlike other deep indebted nations, most of Japan debts are in Yen. so not a serious problem now. well, until the bubble is burst by escalating population crisis and declining competitiveness against regional rivals as China and Korea.

ok you are right in one thing: Japan´s best times are over. it may slow down one or two crisis, but it can´t stop the slide. but if I was you, I would not underestimate the Yamato. Japan comeback can´t be ruled out, the Japanese are tough people.

Speculating against the Yen comes with high risk, too many unknowns. Personally I have yen account and rather speculate on the Dollar.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam, Indonesia vessels clash in South China Sea*
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
JAKARTA, Indonesia — May 23, 2017, 9:11 AM ET

Indonesia says several Vietnamese fishing vessels escaped its waters following a show of force by Vietnam's coast guard in the South China Sea.

Indonesia's Maritime and Fisheries Ministry said Tuesday that Vietnam is holding an Indonesian fisheries officer, who was aboard one of the Vietnamese vessels, and Indonesia has 11 Vietnamese crew members in its custody.

According to Indonesia, the clash Sunday took place north of the Natuna island chain within Indonesia's exclusive economic zone.
The ministry said five Vietnamese-flagged fishing vessels were intercepted by a maritime patrol vessel and were under its control until a Vietnamese coast guard ship rammed the fishing boat with the Indonesian official aboard, sinking it. The ministry said no one was hurt.

It said the Indonesian vessel withdrew after several more Vietnamese coast guard vessels were seen approaching on radar while an Indonesian warship was 30 minutes away.

Vietnam's coast guard declined to comment.

Tensions easily flare in the South China Sea, a major global trading route. China's claim to most of the sea overlaps with the territorial waters of several Southeast Asian nations.

Indonesia has destroyed hundreds of vessels caught fishing illegally in its waters over the past two years, many of them Vietnamese-flagged, as part of a policy of strengthening control over the archipelago nation's vast maritime territory.

Rifky Effendi Hardjianto, secretary-general of the fisheries ministry, told a news conference that ministry officials have met with Vietnam's ambassador and would resolve the incident through normal diplomatic channels. Both sides agreed to avoid a repeat of the clash, he said.

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## Shotgunner51

All posters Please get back to topic, thanks.

@GS Zhou @Viet Reports on off-topic posts received, let's discuss Japan budget in another thread, I've found technical mistakes in your posts, tag me there I will explain.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/japan-defence-forum.316803/page-129#post-9476732 or https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/japan-economy-forum.318683/unread

@Farhan Bohra It's the private sector (e.g. the Keiretsu) that drives commercial investment, not JICA which is a government org with broader missions (see https://www.jica.go.jp/english/about/mission/index.html)

Addressing the global agenda
Reducing poverty through equitable growth
Improving governance
Achieving human security.
JICA is one of the execution arms of ODA, aka aid to developing countries. India is a large developing country and that's reason why India is largest recepient of JICA aid. Japan is the world's largest creditor nation, owning largest net international assets, Japan has far more assets in US, ASEAN, Europe, SK and China than in India. JICA loan of JPY 4 trillion to India is like $40 billion, already smaller than China's $58 billion investment in CPEC, let alone whole of OBOR. Do not post disinformation.

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## Viet

Ok no problem @Shotgunner51 we go back to the Vietnam defense news...


With a help of a friend, Vietnam modernizes medium range S125 surface to air missile system, especially designed to knock down enemy aerial aircraft and objects flying at low attitude. The upgrade happens some time ago but now more missile systems are deployed.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam, Indonesia vessels clash in South China Sea*
> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
> JAKARTA, Indonesia — May 23, 2017, 9:11 AM ET
> 
> Indonesia says several Vietnamese fishing vessels escaped its waters following a show of force by Vietnam's coast guard in the South China Sea.
> 
> Indonesia's Maritime and Fisheries Ministry said Tuesday that Vietnam is holding an Indonesian fisheries officer, who was aboard one of the Vietnamese vessels, and Indonesia has 11 Vietnamese crew members in its custody.
> 
> According to Indonesia, the clash Sunday took place north of the Natuna island chain within Indonesia's exclusive economic zone.
> The ministry said five Vietnamese-flagged fishing vessels were intercepted by a maritime patrol vessel and were under its control until a Vietnamese coast guard ship rammed the fishing boat with the Indonesian official aboard, sinking it. The ministry said no one was hurt.
> 
> It said the Indonesian vessel withdrew after several more Vietnamese coast guard vessels were seen approaching on radar while an Indonesian warship was 30 minutes away.
> 
> Vietnam's coast guard declined to comment.
> 
> Tensions easily flare in the South China Sea, a major global trading route. China's claim to most of the sea overlaps with the territorial waters of several Southeast Asian nations.
> 
> Indonesia has destroyed hundreds of vessels caught fishing illegally in its waters over the past two years, many of them Vietnamese-flagged, as part of a policy of strengthening control over the archipelago nation's vast maritime territory.
> 
> Rifky Effendi Hardjianto, secretary-general of the fisheries ministry, told a news conference that ministry officials have met with Vietnam's ambassador and would resolve the incident through normal diplomatic channels. Both sides agreed to avoid a repeat of the clash, he said.


more information, Indo men show the evidence




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Viet

*Pentagon: Evans Casualties Are Not Vietnam War Deaths*





File image courtesy CalVet
By *MarEx *2017-05-22 19:20:12


The Pentagon has turned down a petition to list the 74 victims of the _USS Frank E. Evans _collision on the Vietnam War Memorial wall. The men died at the height of the Vietnam War, but the Department of Defense maintains that they do not qualify for listing because the collision occurred outside of the combat zone. 

The _Evans _was one of the 58 _Sumner_-class destroyers built during World War II. She was off Vietnam for a total of about 150 days from 1965-1969, and she participated in combat during the Tet Offensive, providing the 101st Airborne Division with naval fire support at Phan Thiet.

In the early hours of June 3, 1969, the _Evans _was participating in a training exercise with Australian, British and New Zealand naval forces about 230 nm off the coast of Vung Tao. She was sailing in formation with the Australian aircraft carrier _HMAS Melbourne_ and dozens of other vessels, and _Melbourne _ordered her to take up a following position 1000 yards astern. In a series of bridge resource management errors, _Evans_' conning officer turned to starboard to put this order into effect, a decision that put his vessel right in front of the _Melbourne's _bow. Despite last-minute efforts to avoid collision, _Melbourne _struck her on the port side just behind the wheelhouse and cut her in half. The bow rolled, capsized and sank quickly, taking 73 sailors with it to the bottom. One body was recovered from the water.





_USN_




_USN_




_Damage to the Melbourne (USN)_


The _Evans_' commander and conning officer pled guilty to dereliction of duty. The captain of the _Melbourne _was tried by an Australian military court for failing to take positive action, but he was acquitted with honor. A U.S. Navy investigation found that he had attempted to alert the _Evans _to the danger of collision multiple times in the minutes leading up to the accident. 

In a testament to the survivability of the _Sumner_-class design, the _Evans_’ stern section righted itself after the collision and did not sink, saving well over 100 lives. It stayed afloat throughout a tow to Subic Bay, where it was decommissioned and ultimately sunk as a target.

*Veterans seek remembrance*

A group of _Evans _survivors and relatives has petitioned the Pentagon to list the 74 casualties on the Vietnam Memorial. They point out that even though the _Evans _was not in the designated combat zone at the time of the collision, she had been in it shortly before and was due to return to it shortly after. The group points out that dozens of servicemembers who perished far from the war have already been given a place on the wall, and it would be consistent with established practice to add the lost crewmembers of the _Evans _as well. 

In 2015, they secured the support of Senator Charles Schumer, the top-ranking Democrat in the Senate. “It just makes no sense not to put them on the wall,” Sen. Schumer told The Associated Press at the time. “They risked their lives for the country like everybody else.” 

However, despite the high-level endorsement, the survivors have not convinced the Department of Defense to change its mind. Earlier this month, the Pentagon turned down the group's petition and offered to list the _Evans _casualties on a separate plaque, which would be mounted in an as-yet-unbuilt visitors center. 

“They’re throwing us a bone,” said Steve Kraus, vice president of the USS Frank E. Evans Association, speaking to the AP. “They’re thinking, ‘OK, maybe this will all go away now.’” But this won’t go away, Kraus said: he plans to keep pressing until the Pentagon recognizes the lost crewmembers of the _Evans _as Vietnam War casualties.

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## Viet

*Donald Trump*

Both the White House and Vietnam government confirm the upcoming 3-day visit of Vietnamese PM to Washington from May 29 to 31. Not bad, never before in the modern history a Vietnamese leader was invited to America at such early stage. Even Barack Obama, the Pacific president, invited Vietnam communist chief to the White House, visited Vietnam in person, when his presidency nearly came to the end. Hope to seeing fruitful results and beautiful pictures. With Melania Trump for example


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## Carlosa

*Indonesia, Vietnam to probe reported skirmish in disputed waters*
By Reuters May 23, 2017 | 07:49 pm GMT+7
*An Indonesian sea patrol intercepted the Vietnamese fishing boats with 55 crew on Sunday after they crossed into Indonesian waters. *
Indonesia and Vietnam will launch a joint investigation into a sea incident at the weekend, officials said, after reports that Vietnamese coast guards had tried to forcibly free five fishing boats and their crew detained in waters near the Natuna Islands.

An Indonesian sea patrol intercepted the Vietnamese fishing boats with 55 crew on Sunday after they crossed into Indonesian waters, said Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry.

Hardijanto denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard in a bid to free its fishermen.

He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard and could leave Vietnam as soon as the Indonesian government arranged transport.

Indonesian Fisheries Minister Susi Pudjiastuti met Vietnam's ambassador in Jakarta on Tuesday to discuss the issue, Hardijanto added.

"The two countries' diplomatic departments have contacted each other and worked together to handle it and make sure similar cases do not happen," said Vietnam's ambassador, Hoang Anh Tuan.

Indonesia had sought Vietnam's assurance it would not enter its territorial waters again, Hardijanto said.

He said the countries would also discuss border issues, since Indonesia defined its border on the basis of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), while Vietnam used the continental shelf.

Indonesia has been holding regular exercises and has stepped up its military presence in and around the Natuna Islands, close to disputed waters in the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea.

There have been confrontations between Indonesian and Chinese vessels in waters near the Natuna Islands as regional tension rises over Beijing's assertiveness in the busy waterway.

In March last year, a Chinese coastguard vessel rammed a Chinese fishing vessel to free it following its seizure by Indonesian authorities.

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## Viet

Eh what happens to PDF? 
No, I don't mean the Chinese posters and mods have transformed China & Far East to Chinese relevant, irrelevant and most irrelevant news site. I mean the site itself. It looks as if the coders do programming while trinking beer en mass. Terrible.


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## Viet

US made Metal Shark 45, $1 million a piece, 6 recently received, 12 should arrive soon. The Coast guard should mount a machine gun on the backboard when hunting pirates.








Australia nurses in Vietnam for charity work. Much welcome. 1,000 times better than sending combat troops, supporting the US war effort as seen during the Vietnam war.

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## Viet

A little of statistics 
The Soviet Union delivered North Vietnam with more than 2,000 tanks, 1,700.APCs, 7,000 artillery guns, 5,000 anti aircraft guns, 158 surface to air missile batteries, 700 fighter aircraft, 120 helicopters, 100 warships, to mention huge amounts of ammunition, fuel, food, clothing and everything. Without the USSR, North Vietnam could never have withstood the repeated onslaughts of the US armed forces, the one million men southern republican army and US allies from Thailand to South Korea to Australia. The Soviets delivered the military hardware mostly by sea. That was necessary as land delivery became almost impossible after the breakdown of USSR/China relationship.
Soviet transport ship in North Vietnam


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## Viet

Vietnam voices no objection to the presence of the US destroyer Dewey that was sailing within 12 miles of a chinese island, as the Spokeswomen of Vietnam Foreign Office Lê Thị Thu Hằng at a regular news conference was asked. What happens with Donald Trump love to China?

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## Viet

Pending on US Congress approval, US president Donald Trump promotes Brigadier General *Luong Xuan Viet* to Major General. I believe, he will be the rank highest soldier a Vietnamese in the US army has ever received. He is also a member of chief of staff of US Army Central. Now the "bad" news: Brig. Gen. Luong is ordered to South Korea, as deputy commanding general of the US 8th Army. Midst of a hurricane.

Congratulation

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## Viet

*U.S. transfers high endurance cutter to Vietnam coast *




Photo By Petty Officer 2nd Class Melissa McKenzie | Lt. Gen. Nguyen Quang Dam, commandant,... read more

*HONOLULU , HI, UNITED STATES*
*05.25.2017*



HONOLULU — The U.S. Coast Guard transferred a high endurance cutter to the Vietnam coast guard during a ceremony in Honolulu, Thursday at 10 a.m. 

The ship, which will be renamed CSB 8020, is expected to improve the Vietnam coast guard’s maritime domain awareness, increase its capacity to perform maritime law enforcement operations, and conduct search and rescue and other humanitarian response operations.

"This cutter provides a concrete and significant symbol of the U.S-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership," said U.S. Coast Guard Rear Adm. Michael J. Haycock, assistant commandant for acquisition and chief acquisition officer. "The Coast Guard is honored to see this vessel continue to preserve global peace and prosperity as a part of the Vietnam coast guard."

The CSB 8020 was transferred to the Vietnam coast guard from the U.S. Government through the Excess Defense Articles program. The EDA offers excess military equipment to U.S. partner and allied countries in support of their military and security modernization efforts.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Pending on US Congress approval, US president Donald Trump promotes Brigadier General *Luong Xuan Viet* to Major General. I believe, he will be the rank highest soldier a Vietnamese in the US army has ever received. He is also a member of chief of staff of US Army Central. Now the "bad" news: Brig. Gen. Luong is ordered to South Korea, as deputy commanding general of the US 8th Army. Midst of a hurricane.
> 
> Congratulation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 399236


Should have more and more VNese to become US generals and US military officers cos VN is the only nation defeating US mighty army till now

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## Viet

the new RoK President Moon Jae-in sends a special envoy to Vietnam: Park Won-soon (left). Nice. We should return the favor by offering a nice economic package for Korean companies to expand operations in Vietnam.


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## Carlosa

*Pivotal Vietnam balances U.S. and China amid Trump uncertainty*
*Vietnam could hardly have asked for more: a U.S. warship challenging Chinese claims in the East Vietnam Sea, a meeting at the White House and six new coastal patrol boats.*

All are signs of a U.S. commitment which Vietnam had feared was waning under President Donald Trump just as the Southeast Asian country has emerged as the most forceful opponent of China's claim to one of the world's most important seaways.

But uncertain over how enduring U.S. support will be and wary of relying on any ally, Vietnam is just as carefully cultivating ties with China.

"Vietnam doesn't want an imbalance of power in the region that could lead to war," said Tran Cong Truc, a former head of the National Boundary Commission who spent decades defending Vietnam's maritime claims.

The meeting with Trump next Wednesday is a coup for Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, who will be the first Southeast Asian leader to visit the White House under the new administration.

It reflected calls, letters, diplomatic contacts and lower level visits that started long before Trump took office in Washington, where Vietnam retains a lobbyist at $30,000 a month.

Just as important symbolically for Vietnam this week was having a U.S. warship sail close to an artificial island being built by China in the East Vietnam Sea, where Beijing's extensive claims are disputed by Vietnam and four other countries.

Vietnamese officials and foreign envoys familiar with Hanoi's position said it had been lobbying hard for what former enemy the United States calls a "freedom of navigation" mission.

Further underlining U.S. support, the United States delivered *six coastal patrol vessels* to Vietnam this week.

"Vietnam's future prosperity depends upon a stable and peaceful maritime environment," U.S. Ambassador Ted Osius said.

*Lonely voice*

Such words help to ease concerns in Vietnam at being a lonely voice in challenging Beijing in the East Vietnam Sea, particularly since Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has grown closer to China.

Military ties between the United States and Vietnam were forged under the Obama administration, but even more important was the strategic Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact.

Vietnam was disappointed when Trump ditched that deal and focused trade policy on reducing deficits - Vietnam's $32 billion surplus with the United States was the sixth biggest last year.

Vietnamese nerves were jangled further by Trump's recent coziness with Chinese President Xi Jinping in trying to tackle North Korea's nuclear program.

"The total fixation on North Korea had Vietnam quite worried that the [East Vietnam Sea] would be left wide open," said Carl Thayer, a Vietnam expert at Australia’s University of New South Wales.

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Katrina Adams said "the U.S.-Vietnam partnership is a critical component of U.S. foreign policy in the Asia-Pacific region".

But a former senior U.S. official said Trump could be expected to complain to Vietnam's prime minister about the size of its trade surplus. Under Trump budget plans, Vietnam could also find U.S. military donations becoming loans instead.

In the face of the uncertainty since Trump took office, Hanoi has been paying as much attention to Beijing as to Washington.

President Tran Dai Quang combined a state visit with his attendance at China's Belt and Road summit. Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, was in Beijing days before Trump's inauguration.

After both those visits, the countries emphasized their readiness to keep the peace in the East Vietnam Sea, through which some $5 trillion in trade flows each year.

Just as telling, the Vietnamese coast guard sent a vessel on a visit to China for the first time early this month.

"'Simultaneously cooperate and fight' is a very practical policy," said Truc. 

"Vietnam never kneels or surrenders before China's open violation of its legitimate rights, but it does not give China any excuse to use its power to create conflict."

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> *U.S. transfers high endurance cutter to Vietnam coast *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo By Petty Officer 2nd Class Melissa McKenzie | Lt. Gen. Nguyen Quang Dam, commandant,... read more
> 
> *HONOLULU , HI, UNITED STATES*
> *05.25.2017*
> 
> 
> 
> HONOLULU — The U.S. Coast Guard transferred a high endurance cutter to the Vietnam coast guard during a ceremony in Honolulu, Thursday at 10 a.m.
> 
> The ship, which will be renamed CSB 8020, is expected to improve the Vietnam coast guard’s maritime domain awareness, increase its capacity to perform maritime law enforcement operations, and conduct search and rescue and other humanitarian response operations.
> 
> "This cutter provides a concrete and significant symbol of the U.S-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership," said U.S. Coast Guard Rear Adm. Michael J. Haycock, assistant commandant for acquisition and chief acquisition officer. "The Coast Guard is honored to see this vessel continue to preserve global peace and prosperity as a part of the Vietnam coast guard."
> 
> The CSB 8020 was transferred to the Vietnam coast guard from the U.S. Government through the Excess Defense Articles program. The EDA offers excess military equipment to U.S. partner and allied countries in support of their military and security modernization efforts.
> 
> ]


Some information abt the ship selling to VN







Contact Information


Namesake: Henry Morgenthau, Jr.
Builder: Avondale Shipyards
Commissioned: 10 March 1969
Decommissioned: 18 April 2017
Homeport: Honolulu, Hawaii
Motto:

_Decus Pacifici_
Pride of the Pacific
Status: Decommissioned; *Acquired by Vietnam *
Badge:




_Morgenthau_'s Crest
*General characteristics*
Class and type: _Hamilton_-class cutter
*Displacement: 3,250 tons *
Length: 378 ft (115 m)
Beam: 43 ft (13 m)
Draught: 15 ft (4.6 m)
Propulsion:

2 × Diesel engines
2 × Gas turbine engines
Speed: 29 knots (53.7 km/h)
Range: 14,000 mi (22,531 km)
Endurance: 45 days
Complement: 160 (20 officers; 140 enlisted)
Sensors and
processing systems: AN/SPS-40 air-search radar
Armament:

Otobreda 76 mm main gun
Phalanx CIWS radar-guided Gatling gun
25 mm M242 Bushmasterautocannons
M2 Browning .50 Cal. machine guns
M240 light machine guns
various small arms.


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## Viet

Small caliber armor piercing 7,62x54mm manufactured by z113 factory, for example capable to pierce thru US made class 3 NIJ101.04 protective vest

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## Carlosa

*Indonesia releases four Vietnamese boats after clash in disputed waters*
Indonesia has released four of the five Vietnamese fishing boats it seized on Sunday along with most of the 55 fishermen who were captured for crossing into Indonesian waters near the Natuna Islands, according to a Vietnamese government statement.





A sinking Vietnamese fishing boat. Photo courtesy of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry.

One of the four boats sank on its way back to Vietnam, and an Indonesian officer was rescued by Vietnamese coast guards, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement released on Thursday.

Vietnam has asked Indonesia to release the remaining boat and fishermen, and the two countries have agreed to work together to resolve the situation peacefully, said the statement.

"The two countries' diplomatic departments are in contact and are working together to prevent similar incidents from happening again," said Hoang Anh Tuan, Vietnam's ambassador to Indonesia.

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## Viet

https://sputniknews.com/military/201705261054024071-russia-china-india-helicopter/

_In the near two – three years we are going to supply China, India, Thailand, Equatorial Guinea, Turkey and *Vietnam* with Mi-8, Mi-171, Ka-32A11BC and Ansat helicopters," Shcherbinin said._


Mi-8 heli






Ka-32 heli





Ansat heli

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## xiao qi

*Vietnam is in a pivotal position as it balances the US and China*

HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnam could hardly have asked for more: a U.S. warship challenging Chinese claims in the South China Sea, a meeting at the White House and six new coastal patrol boats.

All are signs of a U.S. commitment which Vietnam had feared was waning under President Donald Trump just as the Southeast Asian country has emerged as the most forceful opponent of China's claim to one of the world's most important seaways.

But uncertain over how enduring U.S. support will be and wary of relying on any ally, Vietnam is just as carefully cultivating ties with ancient foe China.

"Vietnam doesn't want an imbalance of power in the region that could lead to war," said Tran Cong Truc, a former head of the National Boundary Commission who spent decades defending Vietnam's maritime claims.

The meeting with Trump next Wednesday is a coup for Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, who will be the first Southeast Asian leader to visit the White House under the new administration.

It reflected calls, letters, diplomatic contacts and lower level visits that started long before Trump took office in Washington, where Vietnam retains a lobbyist at $30,000 a month.

Just as important symbolically for Vietnam this week was having a U.S. warship sail close to an artificial island being built by China in the South China Sea, where Beijing's extensive claims are disputed by Vietnam and four other countries.

Vietnamese officials and foreign envoys familiar with Hanoi's position said it had been lobbying hard for what former enemy the United States calls a "freedom of navigation" mission.

Further underlining U.S. support, the United States delivered six coastal patrol vessels to Vietnam this week.

"Vietnam's future prosperity depends upon a stable and peaceful maritime environment," U.S. Ambassador Ted Osius said.



*Lonely Voice*


Such words help to ease concerns in Vietnam at being a lonely voice in challenging Beijing in the South China Sea, particularly since Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has grown closer to China.

Military ties between the United States and Vietnam were forged under the Obama administration, but even more important was the strategic Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact.

Vietnam was disappointed when Trump ditched that deal and focused trade policy on reducing deficits - Vietnam's $32 billion surplus with the United States was the sixth biggest last year.

Vietnamese nerves were jangled further by Trump's recent coziness with Chinese President Xi Jinping in trying to tackle North Korea's nuclear program.

"The total fixation on North Korea had Vietnam quite worried that the South China Sea would be left wide open," said Carl Thayer, a Vietnam expert at Australia’s University of New South Wales.

In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Katrina Adams said "the U.S.-Vietnam partnership is a critical component of U.S. foreign policy in the Asia-Pacific region".

But a former senior U.S. official said Trump could be expected to complain to Vietnam's prime minister about the size of its trade surplus. Under Trump budget plans, Vietnam could also find U.S. military donations becoming loans instead.

In the face of the uncertainty since Trump took office, Hanoi has been paying as much attention to Beijing as to Washington.




U.S. President Barack Obama shakes hands with Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang after an arrival ceremony at the presidential palace in Hanoi, Vietnam May 23, 2016. REUTERS/Carlos Barria

President Tran Dai Quang combined a state visit with his attendance at China's Belt and Road summit. Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, arguably the most powerful man in Vietnam, was in Beijing days before Trump's inauguration.

After both those visits, the countries emphasized their readiness to keep the peace in the South China Sea, through which some $5 trillion in trade flows each year.

Just as telling, the Vietnamese coast guard sent a vessel on a visit to China for the first time early this month.

"'Simultaneously cooperate and fight' is a very practical policy," said Truc. "Vietnam never kneels or surrenders before China's open violation of its legitimate rights, but it does not give China any excuse to use its power to create conflict."

For graphic on rival claims in the South China Sea, click: http://tmsnrt.rs/1GHW1LC

For graphic on U.S.-Vietnam trade, click: http://tmsnrt.rs/2r1vBEH

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-pivotal-vietnam-balances-us-and-china-amid-trump-uncertainty-2017-5

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## Viva_Viet

xiao qi said:


> *Lonely Voice*
> 
> 
> Such words help to ease concerns in Vietnam at being a lonely voice in challenging Beijing in the South China Sea, particularly since Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has grown closer to China.
> 
> Military ties between the United States and Vietnam were forged under the Obama administration, but even more important was the strategic Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact.
> 
> Vietnam was disappointed when Trump ditched that deal and focused trade policy on reducing deficits - Vietnam's $32 billion surplus with the United States was the sixth biggest last year.
> 
> Vietnamese nerves were jangled further by Trump's recent coziness with Chinese President Xi Jinping in trying to tackle North Korea's nuclear program.
> 
> "The total fixation on North Korea had Vietnam quite worried that the South China Sea would be left wide open," said Carl Thayer, a Vietnam expert at Australia’s University of New South Wales.
> 
> In Washington, State Department spokeswoman Katrina Adams said "the U.S.-Vietnam partnership is a critical component of U.S. foreign policy in the Asia-Pacific region".
> 
> But a former senior U.S. official said Trump could be expected to complain to Vietnam's prime minister about the size of its trade surplus. Under Trump budget plans, Vietnam could also find U.S. military donations becoming loans instead.
> 
> In the face of the uncertainty since Trump took office, Hanoi has been paying as much attention to Beijing as to Washington.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. President Barack Obama shakes hands with Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang after an arrival ceremony at the presidential palace in Hanoi, Vietnam May 23, 2016. REUTERS/Carlos Barria
> 
> President Tran Dai Quang combined a state visit with his attendance at China's Belt and Road summit. Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, arguably the most powerful man in Vietnam, was in Beijing days before Trump's inauguration.
> 
> After both those visits, the countries emphasized their readiness to keep the peace in the South China Sea, through which some $5 trillion in trade flows each year.
> 
> Just as telling, the Vietnamese coast guard sent a vessel on a visit to China for the first time early this month.
> 
> "'Simultaneously cooperate and fight' is a very practical policy," said Truc. "Vietnam never kneels or surrenders before China's open violation of its legitimate rights, but it does not give China any excuse to use its power to create conflict."
> 
> For graphic on rival claims in the South China Sea, click: http://tmsnrt.rs/1GHW1LC
> 
> For graphic on U.S.-Vietnam trade, click: http://tmsnrt.rs/2r1vBEH
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/r-pivotal-vietnam-balances-us-and-china-amid-trump-uncertainty-2017-5


Yeah, the 'lone wolf' just got a single USCGC Morgenthau while offerring 3 big ships from US


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## Viet

*Vietnam premier to visit Japan in June*
12:47 am, May 27, 2017
The Japan Times





Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga


Jiji PressTOKYO (Jiji Press) — The government decided at a Cabinet meeting Friday to invite Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc to Japan for an official working visit on June 4-8.

During the visit, Phuc will hold talks with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and meet with the Emperor and Empress.

“Japan and Vietnam have promoted friendly and cooperative relations under the broad strategic partnership,” Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga a press conference.

“I hope the Japan visit by Prime Minister Phuc will further deepen bilateral ties and cooperation,” he added.Speech


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## Place Of Space

Viet said:


> https://sputniknews.com/military/201705261054024071-russia-china-india-helicopter/
> 
> _In the near two – three years we are going to supply China, India, Thailand, Equatorial Guinea, Turkey and *Vietnam* with Mi-8, Mi-171, Ka-32A11BC and Ansat helicopters," Shcherbinin said._
> 
> 
> Mi-8 heli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ka-32 heli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ansat heli



The helis all look like transportation ones.


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## Viet

Place Of Space said:


> The helis all look like transportation ones.


Yes and no. If you take a closer look, they are combat helicopter in the first picture, naval and transport helis in the second and last picture.



Changing topic

Rumor says, but I think it can't be true, with US assistance Vietnam wants to bring back 175 mm field artillery, that was once deployed in the Vietnam war.


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## Viet

Published on _The National Interest_ (http://nationalinterest.org)


Home > What Vietnam Can Offer America
*What Vietnam Can Offer America*

*





U.S. policy must achieve a U.S.-Vietnam alliance that can neutralize Chinese primacy in Southeast Asia.*


Alexander Vuving
May 27, 2017

When Vietnamese prime minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc travels to the United States later this month, he will be the first national leader from Southeast Asia and the third from an Asian—but not Middle Eastern—country after Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese president Xi Jinping were hosted by President Donald Trump. Although this does not mean that Vietnam is the third most important country in the region for the United States, it says something about the eagerness with which Hanoi and Washington, DC are reaching out to each other and the priority each enjoys in the agenda of the other.

The United States and Vietnam have important economic and security issues to discuss. With $32 billion of bilateral-trade surplus, Vietnam ranked sixth among the countries that contributed to the United States’ $502 billion trade deficit last year. With ideological ties to North Korea, Hanoi can play a role in Washington’s effort to isolate and pressure the emerging nuclear-armed state. And stretching along the western coast of the South China Sea, Vietnam holds a key to the regional balance of power. After the U.S. withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), Hanoi is eager to know what the Trump administration can offer instead of that multilateral-trade agreement. The Vietnamese are also nervous about the possibility that Washington may trade its interests in the South China Sea for Chinese cooperation in taming North Korea.

While these hot issues make Prime Minister Phuc’s trip desirable, it is a new level of U.S.-Vietnam relations that makes it possible. Without this new level, Vietnam would not have sent one of its top leaders and the U.S. president would not have cleared his schedule for a visit from Vietnam at this early stage. Understanding the underlying forces that have formed the plateau on which the U.S.-Vietnam engagement operates is a key to making sound policy on Vietnam. To this end, let’s first review the trajectories of U.S. policy toward Vietnam as well as those of Vietnam’s policy toward the United States.


*U.S.-Vietnam Relations Viewed from Ten Thousand Feet*

Once a place where three million Americans fought a decade-long war, Vietnam was relegated to a low priority in U.S. foreign policy during the 1980s and 1990s. In this long period, noted Raymond Burghardt, U.S. ambassador to Vietnam from 2001 to 2004, “the U.S. approach to Vietnam was separate from any strategic plan for the East Asia region.” The restoration of diplomatic relations with Vietnam in 1995 was an enormous landmark in the bilateral relationship, but it was not a major turning point in the United States’ approach to Vietnam. As Burghardt observed, bilateral ties strengthened in the late 1990s with the focus turned toward economic opportunities, but the progress moved at a slow pace.

A major turning point in the United States’ approach to Vietnam took place in 2001, when the George W. Bush administration brought in a more critical view of China than those of the George H.W. Bush and Clinton administrations. President Bill Clinton in 1997 pledged to work toward a “constructive strategic partnership” with China, but candidate Bush in 1999 said China should be viewed as a “strategic competitor,” not a “strategic partner.” Spelling out the logic behind this belief, Condoleezza Rice, Bush’s national security advisor, argued in a 2000 article that as China had “unresolved vital interests, particularly concerning Taiwan and the South China Sea,” it “resent[ed] the role of the United States in the Asia-Pacific region” and “would like to alter Asia’s balance of power in its own favor.” Flowing logically from this geopolitical rationale was an enhanced role for Vietnam in U.S. foreign policy.

The Bush administration’s overtures to Vietnam—dialogue on strategic issues and cooperation in defense and security areas—were initially met with stiff resistance in Hanoi. After a short-lived rebalance to the West during 1987–1989, Vietnam pivoted to China in 1990, a sea change marked by the secret meeting at Chengdu in September that year between Chinese and Vietnamese Communist Party chiefs and heads of government. While reformers in the Vietnamese regime pursued U.S. ties as a doorway to the world and a counterweight to China, conservatives were adamant that China was an ally and America an adversary. In 1990 the balance of power between the two blocs tilted decisively in favor of the conservatives. As a result, Vietnam remained near the Chinese orbit and was careful not to veer close to the equidistant line between the two great powers. At his visit to China in December 2001, Vietnam Communist Party chief Nong Duc Manh vowed to oppose “hegemonism,” repeating the Chinese slogan for a fight against U.S. role and power. This was the first time that the anti-U.S. mantra appeared in a joint Sino-Vietnamese statement; but it was also the last.

The U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 triggered a radical change in Vietnam’s strategic assessment. In less than fifty days, a regional power in the Middle East collapsed under the weight of U.S. military power. Vietnam’s regime conservatives woke up after the conquest realizing that they were living in a unipolar world with the United States at the top. Officials in Hanoi asked me seriously at that time whether Vietnam or North Korea would be the next target. In July 2003, the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam passed a new national-security strategy (usually known as Resolution 8) that removed ideology as the key for determining friend and foe. Hanoi adopted more pragmatic criteria, according to which a foreign state was a “partner of cooperation” (_đối tác_) or a “target of struggle” (_đối tượng_) contingent on its attitude toward Vietnam’s goals, not its ideological orientation. Now the reformers’ pursuit of a strategic partnership with the United States was no longer unthinkable and their view of China as a strategic competitor no longer a taboo. The 2003 strategy also made possible the move toward the equidistant line between China and the United States. In the second half of the year, as Ambassador Burghardt recalled, “Vietnamese leaders informed us they would now welcome major steps that they had resisted for years.”

The 2003 turning point in Vietnamese foreign policy paved the way for the country to fully join the U.S-led international order. Until the second half of 2003, negotiations on Vietnam’s accession to the World Trade Organization (WTO) moved at a snail’s pace because conservatives who viewed the WTO as a U.S. scheme to turn Vietnam into a capitalist country were able to block them. After the 2003 strategy, Hanoi accelerated the negotiation and quickly joined the group in 2006. Vietnam became a globalization enthusiast and in 2008 it readily accepted the Bush administration’s offer to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a U.S.-led free-trade arrangement with even more transformative effect than the WTO.

Starting in the late 2000s, increased Chinese challenges, particularly Beijing’s assertiveness in the South China Sea, gave a new impetus to the emerging U.S.-Vietnam partnership. A year after her July 2010 declaration at the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Forum in Hanoi that “the United States has a national interest” in the South China Sea, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton laid out a new U.S. strategy, often called the “pivot,” in which the United States aspired to develop a strategic partnership with Vietnam. During her trip to Vietnam in July 2012, Clinton made a profound gesture of friendship by inviting Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, who held no government position, to the United States. The Americans hoped at that time that Trong’s unprecedented visit would be made right in 2013.

But conservatives in Hanoi were able to torpedo the preparation for Trong’s trip. What Vietnam’s reformers and their American counterpart could reach in 2013 was not the Communist Party chief’s visit to the United States but one by President Truong Tan Sang, which culminated in a joint statement of the U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership. It would take a major act of Chinese provocation to remove the roadblocks set up by the conservatives.

In the summer of 2014, China deployed its biggest oil rig, the $1 billion HYSY-981, into Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone. The incident sparked months-long intense protests from Vietnam, causing the worst crisis in Sino-Vietnamese relations since the massacre of seventy Vietnamese sailors and seizure of six reefs in the Spratly Islands by China in 1988. The oil rig crisis proved a game changer—it helped Vietnamese leaders to see China as a real opponent and America as a best friend. It was during this crisis that Hanoi decided to speed up preparations for General Secretary Trong’s U.S. trip, which would be materialized in July 2015.

President Barack Obama’s protocol-breaking hosting of Vietnam’s Communist Party chief at the White House was a path-breaking event. It sent a costly signal that convinced Vietnamese leaders of the benign nature of U.S. power regarding their communist regime. If the oil rig crisis of 2014 marked the first time that Hanoi trusted Washington more than it trusted Beijing, Trong’s U.S. trip solidified this disposition and drastically reduced Vietnamese leaders’ perception of the U.S. threat. Obama’s visit to Vietnam in May 2016, during which he completely lifted the arms embargo that the United States imposed on Vietnam for decades, added another boost to increasing mutual trust and reducing threat perception between the two former enemies.

U.S.-Vietnam relations operate within a relatively restricted field of possibility that is primarily shaped not just by the United States and Vietnam but also by China, albeit indirectly. As Vietnam is the secondary state between the two great powers, a vital question for Hanoi is how to manage its political and diplomatic distance (or proximity) to Beijing and Washington. From 1990 until the second half of 2003, Vietnam remained near the Chinese orbit; even a position close to the equidistant line between America and China was politically impossible. The U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 radically changed Hanoi’s appraisal of the global balance of power. The national-security strategy adopted in July 2003 allowed Vietnam to reach the equidistant line, but moving toward that line was in no way frictionless and Vietnam continued to oscillate within the Chinese side of the line. The HYSY-981 oil rig crisis of 2014 helped Hanoi to break free of these self-imposed restrictions. Within just a few years, Vietnam moved to the vicinity of the equidistant line, at times even crossed the line to be relatively closer to the United States. This is the enabling, but also constraining, context within which Prime Minister Phuc will visit the United States next week.

The plateau on which the U.S.-Vietnam engagement operates is made of convergent interests and mutual trust. It is elevated largely by a combination of China’s aggressive power and America’s competent and kind power. The two major turning points in U.S. policy toward Vietnam (2001 and 2011) resulted from the view that China’s revisionist power needed to be balanced and that Vietnam could play a key role in that effort. China’s perceived aggressiveness was also the cause of the second turning point in Vietnam’s U.S. policy (2014). But the first turning point in Vietnam’s U.S. policy (2003) was the combined effect of U.S. brilliant power as demonstrated in the Iraq invasion and America’s benign power embodied in Washington’s initiatives of dialogue and cooperation with Hanoi.


*How to Make America Great with Vietnam*

While managing the political and diplomatic distance to Washington and Beijing is vital to Vietnam’s well-being between the giants, managing Hanoi’s perception of the international balance of power is a key to America’s success in Asia. The latter involves three major aspects: boosting both countries’ economic and military capabilities, demonstrating America’s competence in the hegemonic contest with China, and maintaining a friendly attitude toward Vietnam.

These imperatives can be materialized by a wide range of policies that are not confined to bilateral U.S.-Vietnam relations. With regard to U.S. policy toward Vietnam, three arrangements hold the key to the pursuit of these imperatives: a forward-looking trade and investment pact; a pro-law—not pro-status quo—approach to the South China Sea; and a comprehensive strategic partnership with Vietnam.


*A Forward-Looking Trade and Investment Pact*

The United States and Vietnam need a robust trade and investment pact that boosts the economic, and indirectly the military, power of both countries in a way that is sustainable in the long run and geopolitically beneficial. The existing bilateral trade and investment agreements fall short of these objectives. In the last decade, both countries were engaged in the negotiation of a new, multilateral trade pact called the Trans-Pacific Partnership that was supposed to serve this triple goal. The TPP would not only open wide market access, but it would also create a counterbalance to China’s economic pull effect and, in the case of Vietnam, force the country to reform its state sector and improve its public spending. However, the 2016 presidential election suggested that the TPP as a whole was domestically undesirable in the United States.

If a multilateral agreement is difficult to attain, the United States and Vietnam should negotiate a new trade and investment agreement with the triple goal mentioned above in mind. The new arrangement should be aimed at reforming both the current state of U.S.-Vietnam trade and Vietnam’s domestic economic environment. The current situation features a double deficit in favor of China. In 2016, for example, the United States suffered a trade deficit of $32 billion with Vietnam and Vietnam suffered a trade deficit of $28 billion with China. Technology imports from China outweighed those from the United States, resulting in a structural constraint that kept Vietnam on the lower rungs of the technology ladder. The new trade-and-investment pact should be aimed at reducing U.S. trade deficit with Vietnam by increasing U.S. exports of equipment and high-tech goods and reducing Vietnam’s trade deficit with China. To this end, trade negotiations should avoid the usual manner of the give-and-take based on present and special interests. Such myopic tendency can relief immediate pains but is counterproductive in the long run. Instead, the aim of the negotiation should be to improve the domestic environment in Vietnam looking forward so it will create an expanding market for high-quality goods from the United States and shrink the market for low-quality goods from China.


*A Pro-Law—Not Pro-Status Quo—Approach to the South China Sea*

Not all places are created equal on the geopolitical chessboard. The economic geography of Asia dictates that whoever controls the sea lines of communication that run through the East and South China Seas will dominate Asia. China’s recent building of artificial islands in the Paracel and Spratly Islands has made the South China Sea a bottleneck on Asia’s lifeline, which carries 80–90 percent of the oil imports to China and Japan. If China can turn the South China Sea into a Chinese lake, then America’s role and influence in Asia will be severely undermined.

The South China Sea is where the core interests of the United States, Vietnam and China intersect. Freedom of the seas and sea-lane security (the United States and Vietnam vs. China), territorial security (Vietnam vs. China) and regional balance of power (the United States and Vietnam vs. China) are at stake in this place. While U.S. and Vietnamese interests here overlap substantially, they clash with those of China diametrically.

For years the United States’ approach to the South China Sea has been aimed at maintaining the status quo, while China’s is to creepingly shift it in Beijing’s favor. By acting in the gray zone between peace and open conflict and moving like slicing the salami, Beijing has been successful in changing both the geography and the power propensity of the region without triggering an armed resistance from its opponents. By clinging to the status quo, Washington inadvertently ties itself to the evolving status quo that reflects Chinese advantage and disables itself to roll back to the status quo ante, which is its real goal.

The choice of the pro-status quo approach is based on three assumptions. First, as a defensive posture, it is morally justifiable. Second, the status quo is favorable to U.S. interests than a revision of it. And third, the pro-status quo approach helps to avoid war as it tends to de-escalate conflict and defuse tension.

The latter two of these assumptions are wrong, however. It is the status quo ante, not the status quo, that is favorable to U.S. interests. The current status quo in the South China Sea—with China’s large artificial islands, long airstrips, deep-water harbors, surface-to-air and anti-ship missiles, and high-frequency radars—is far less favorable to the status quo ante that existed before the building of the artificial islands. But the pro-status quo approach commits the United States to the current status quo and dismisses a rollback to the status quo ante as unreasonable. This allows China to shape the evolving status quo to the expense of the United States and other stakeholders, brewing conflict below the surface. While the pro-status quo approach may be able to temporarily stop conflict from escalating on the surface, it is unable to stop conflict from brewing below it. When this brewing reaches a tipping point, war may be too late to prevent.

In the place of the failing pro-status quo approach, the United States should adopt a pro-law approach. The law here refers to the set of laws and legal precedents that are consistent with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and other universally recognized principles of international law. The pro-law approach is better than the pro-status quo one on three counts. First, it has the moral high ground of the law while the pro-status quo approach is morally justifiable just because it is defensive. The status quo may be just or unjust, but the law is the law. Second, the pro-law approach endeavors to roll back Chinese expansion to a state of affairs that is consistent with the 2016 ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration. This ruling has invalidated the nine-dash line and reduced the disputed waters in the South China Sea from about 80 percent to about 20 percent of the region. This state of affairs is favorable to anyone that has a stake in the freedom of the seas in the South China Sea. Third, the pro-law approach may cause tension to rise temporarily, but there are ways to avoid war when pursuing it. Elsewhere I have outlined a strategythat can contain both Chinese expansion and a U.S.-China war at the same time. At the core of this strategy lies a “whole of capability” approach that combines gray-zone activities with economic sanctions and other indirect measures.


*A Comprehensive Strategic Partnership with Vietnam*

Although the United States remains the sole global power in the foreseeable future, China is rapidly narrowing its power gap with the United States in the East Asia region and is poised to become America’s peer regionally. U.S. primacy in this region is being replaced with a new, bipolar regional configuration that features the United States and China as its two poles. In order to stand the ground and maintain its influence, the United States will badly need regional allies.

If allied with the Unites States, Vietnam can augment American power to a great extent. This additional power stems primarily from Vietnam’s strategic location along a bottleneck of the region’s lifeline and at a major gateway to China and its defense capabilities rooted in a large population of more than ninety million and the rich historical experience of dealing with China in war as well as in peace for more than two thousand years.

This alliance is more than just a defense treaty and may not require the formal defense commitment similar to that between the United States and its treaty allies in the region. It needs codification and this can take the title of a “comprehensive strategic partnership.”

Washington and Hanoi have been moving in this direction. The U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership declared in 2013 calls for cooperation in a full range of areas, stretching from political and diplomatic relations to trade and economic ties, from technology and education to defense and security, from culture, sports and tourism to war legacy issues, and from environment and health to the protection of human rights. Facing with the growing challenge from China, this partnership needs to be deepened and upgraded to a more strategic level that will allow the United States and Vietnam to adequately meet the epochal challenge.


*Conclusion*

Speaking to U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer on May 20 in Hanoi, Prime Minister Phuc said, “I would like to see the United States continue to maintain its presence in the region.” Just five years ago, this was what some top leaders in Hanoi could only think privately but not say publicly. The field of possibility for U.S.-Vietnam interaction has expanded significantly over the last two decades. The limits and shape of this field of possibility result from both countries’ policies toward each other, which in turn reflect the perceptions of leaders in Washington and Hanoi of the global and Asian balance of power. A key to win the geopolitical game in Asia lies in the skillful management of these perceptions.

At its core, a winning U.S. policy toward Vietnam must perform three major tasks. It must conclude a forward-looking trade and investment agreement that helps to improve Vietnam’s domestic environment, creates an expanding market for high-quality U.S. goods and shrinks the market for low-quality Chinese goods. It must transform the United States’ approach to the South China Sea from one that is wedded to the status quo to one that endeavors to enforce the international law of the sea. Finally, it must achieve a U.S.-Vietnam alliance that can neutralize Chinese primacy in Southeast Asia.

_Alexander L. Vuving is Professor at the Daniel K. Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies. Part of the research for this article has been supported by the MacArthur Foundation Project on Energy Security and Maritime Strategies in the Indo-Pacific. The author alone is responsible for the views expressed in this article._

_Image__: Fishermen on Hai Hoa beach in Vietnam. Pixabay/Public domain_


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## Viet

Some news of the day

Vietnam wants to step up patrol at land, sea and air to deter aggression.
















Vietnam/Portugal agreement to set up regular political consultation.







Vietnam president Tran Dai Quang receives visiting Russian Minister of Economic Development Maksim Oreshkin on May 21. Quang will make a state visit to Russia in June for a summit with Vladimir Putin.







Vietnam made Kh35 antiship missile (a Russian variant) with new improved guidance system Akpa.

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## Viet

New domestic developed aerial surveillance system VQ1M is deployed in southern military theater.










Not too bad: North Korea makes huge success in development of ballistic missiles. It is worth for VN to increase effort in this field. Although I think we don't need long range ballistic missiles like the North Koreans do need them, short to medium range ballistic missiles fired by submarines should be enough.

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## Viet

Installing solar cells on islands is the best way to achieving energy independence in case of sea blockade by enemy. According to UN, Vietnam can achieve 100 percent renewable energy. The southern Binh Thuan province makes the wave by $4 billion investment in renewable energy generation.






http://vietnamnews.vn/society/375424/vns-100-renewable-energy-target-attainable-undp-official.html

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/busines...4-bln-investment-in-clean-energy-3573221.html

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Small caliber armor piercing 7,62x54mm manufactured by z113 factory, for example capable to pierce thru US made class 3 NIJ101.04 protective vest
> View attachment 399396
> View attachment 399397
> View attachment 399398


This looks deadly. Will cause a lot of tissue damage. 
Surely be dead if hit by one.

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## Viet

Solar cells on Con Dao island

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## Viet

*AFTER TALKING TO CHINA ABOUT CHINA, VIETNAM GOES TO WASHINGTON TO DO IT AGAIN*
BY HELEN CLARK 26 MAY 2017

Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc will likely discuss trade and the South China Sea with US President Donald Trump, but when it comes to Beijing, Hanoi seems to be doing fairly well fending for itself.






Vietnam's Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc will travel to Washington to meet with US President Donald Trump. Photo: EPA


Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc is making his first trip to the United States since assuming office in April last year. He will arrive in Washington on May 29 and meet with US President Donald Trump on May 31. He will be the first Southeast Asian leader to visit Washington under the new administration.

As ever in international politics, it comes at an interesting time.






President Barack Obama greets women at the door as he walks from a restaurant after having dinner with American Chef Anthony Bourdain in Hanoi, Vietnam. Photo: AP


Just over a year ago, in a very different climate, President Barack Obama visited Vietnam. The populace went mad for him, and for a short time even a fish-kill scandal – 80 tonnes of dead fish were blamed on chemicals dumped by the Formosa Ha Tinh steel plant that set off mass protests – was forgotten. While there, Obama lifted the weapons embargo in place since the 1960s in a move both he and President Tran Dai Quang heralded as the “last hurdle” to normalised relations.

It was the high point of ties that had been warming steadily through the 21st century, accelerated by China’s aggressions in the South China Sea and Beijing’s refusal to respect Vietnam’s 200 nautical-mile Exclusive Economic Zone. Vietnam welcomes a strong US presence in that area.

*What’s really behind Vietnam’s sacking of top Communist Party official?*

However, under President Trump there has been a quiet US retreat in the region, essentially allowing China greater room to increase its hegemony, as some analysts see it. The US pullback, which comes at the expense of nations like Vietnam, is a big carrot in return for Beijing’s help on North Korea, something that Trump needs and is willing to compromise to get.

This will most likely come up at the meeting between the leaders in Washington, as will post-TTP trade. Vietnam was one of the TPP’s strongest supporters, in part to alleviate the trade imbalance with China.






US President Donald Trump is likely to discuss trade and the South China Sea with the Vietnamese prime minister. Photo: Reuters


It is hard to say what will come out of the meeting, or if there will be another reportable gaffe or mistake. Phuc’s focus will likely be on the South China Sea and trade. He may surprise Trump by asking to buy more arms. The US just delivered six patrol boats to Vietnam, though the original number under Obama was to be 18. However, Vietnam likely won’t get much help from Trump in the region, or with China.

But it’s also possible Phuc won’t ask for direct help with China, since Vietnam has managed some geopolitical stabilisation on its own of late. The past few weeks have seen some high-level meetings and discussions on the sidelines of a Belt and Road meeting in Beijing, and a Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) meeting in Hanoi. The nations have been promoting their “comradely ties” in their respective state media and discussing the need for closer cooperation on the South China Sea, and better ties between their respective youth organs.






China's President Xi Jinping, right, shakes hands with Vietnam's President Tran Dai Quang during a state visit that included attending the Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation. Photo: EPA


President Quang was in Beijing for a mid-May meeting with Premier Li Keqiang (李克強) and attended the Belt and Road forum. Quang also met with President Xi Jinping (習近平). Xi told reporters of Vietnam’s economic development: “As a comrade and neighbour, we are happy to see this.”

Premier Li has been invited to Hanoi soon.

There was also talk of improving the trade imbalance, which has been worrisome to Vietnam for years. Vietnam is China’s largest trade partner within the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, reaching USS100 billion this year.

*From war to peace and now prosperity in rural Vietnam*

China will apparently increase its imports of Vietnam’s agricultural goods and “create more favourable conditions for the provision of concessional credit packages”. The nations will also work on their comprehensive strategic co-operative partnership, a high-level demarcation China also shares with Russia.

The two nations released a joint communique on cooperating on the South China Sea which said in part they would “manage and properly control maritime disputes, not take any actions to complicate the situation or expand the dispute and maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea”. Such things can come apart quickly, but also often signal a willingness to overcome issues and cooperate. Multiple references in both state’s media to the high-level partnership and cooperating across its tenets also shows efforts to avoid flare-ups.






Chinese President Xi Jinping, centre left, and Russian President Vladimir Putin, centre right, arrive with other leaders for a photo during the Belt and Road Forum at the International Conference Center in Yanqi Lake, north of Beijing. Photo: AFP


Yet just two days after the communique China deployed the Norinco CS/AR-1 55mm rocket defense system on a man-made island in Fiery Cross Reef, which can apparently strike enemy divers – a move aimed at the Vietnamese. This comes after Beijing put missiles on Woody Island last year. Fiery Cross is in the Spratly chain of islands and Woody Island in the Paracels. Both Vietnam and China claim them in their entirety.

Then on May 21, Vietnam hosted the third Intersessional Ministerial Meeting of the RCEP in Hanoi, which Vietnam has been floating as a Plan B to the TPP despite having originally signed up to both. At the meeting, the Chinese Minister of Commerce Zhong Shan told the Vietnamese president that China was committed to improving Vietnam’s access to its markets.

The Chinese promises on trade sound substantive, more than the boilerplate rhetoric issued throughout the Belt and Road summit. It will be interesting to see how this changes things when Phuc goes to Washington. He may still ask for a bilateral free-trade agreement (Vietnam and the US actually have one already), and wish to discuss the South China Sea, but he will not feel compelled to do so by China, at least not right now.

http://m.scmp.com/week-asia/geopoli...plot-iran-spells-trouble-chinas-new-silk-road


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## sinait

Viet said:


> Published on _The National Interest_ (http://nationalinterest.org)
> 
> Home > What Vietnam Can Offer America
> *What Vietnam Can Offer America*
> 
> *U.S. policy must achieve a U.S.-Vietnam alliance that can neutralize Chinese primacy in Southeast Asia.*
> 
> Alexander Vuving
> May 27, 2017
> 
> When Vietnamese prime minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc travels to the United States later this month, he will be the first national leader from Southeast Asia and the third from an Asian—but not Middle Eastern—country after Japan’s Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese president Xi Jinping were hosted by President Donald Trump. Although this does not mean that Vietnam is the third most important country in the region for the United States, it says something about the eagerness with which Hanoi and Washington, DC are reaching out to each other and the priority each enjoys in the agenda of the other.
> 
> The United States and Vietnam have important economic and security issues to discuss. With $32 billion of bilateral-trade surplus, Vietnam ranked sixth among the countries that contributed to the United States’ $502 billion trade deficit last year. With ideological ties to North Korea, Hanoi can play a role in Washington’s effort to isolate and pressure the emerging nuclear-armed state. And stretching along the western coast of the South China Sea, Vietnam holds a key to the regional balance of power. After the U.S. withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), Hanoi is eager to know what the Trump administration can offer instead of that multilateral-trade agreement. The Vietnamese are also nervous about the possibility that Washington may trade its interests in the South China Sea for Chinese cooperation in taming North Korea.
> 
> While these hot issues make Prime Minister Phuc’s trip desirable, it is a new level of U.S.-Vietnam relations that makes it possible. Without this new level, Vietnam would not have sent one of its top leaders and the U.S. president would not have cleared his schedule for a visit from Vietnam at this early stage. Understanding the underlying forces that have formed the plateau on which the U.S.-Vietnam engagement operates is a key to making sound policy on Vietnam. To this end, let’s first review the trajectories of U.S. policy toward Vietnam as well as those of Vietnam’s policy toward the United States.
> 
> 
> *U.S.-Vietnam Relations Viewed from Ten Thousand Feet*
> 
> Once a place where three million Americans fought a decade-long war, Vietnam was relegated to a low priority in U.S. foreign policy during the 1980s and 1990s. In this long period, noted Raymond Burghardt, U.S. ambassador to Vietnam from 2001 to 2004, “the U.S. approach to Vietnam was separate from any strategic plan for the East Asia region.” The restoration of diplomatic relations with Vietnam in 1995 was an enormous landmark in the bilateral relationship, but it was not a major turning point in the United States’ approach to Vietnam. As Burghardt observed, bilateral ties strengthened in the late 1990s with the focus turned toward economic opportunities, but the progress moved at a slow pace.
> 
> A major turning point in the United States’ approach to Vietnam took place in 2001, when the George W. Bush administration brought in a more critical view of China than those of the George H.W. Bush and Clinton administrations. President Bill Clinton in 1997 pledged to work toward a “constructive strategic partnership” with China, but candidate Bush in 1999 said China should be viewed as a “strategic competitor,” not a “strategic partner.” Spelling out the logic behind this belief, Condoleezza Rice, Bush’s national security advisor, argued in a 2000 article that as China had “unresolved vital interests, particularly concerning Taiwan and the South China Sea,” it “resent[ed] the role of the United States in the Asia-Pacific region” and “would like to alter Asia’s balance of power in its own favor.” Flowing logically from this geopolitical rationale was an enhanced role for Vietnam in U.S. foreign policy.
> 
> The Bush administration’s overtures to Vietnam—dialogue on strategic issues and cooperation in defense and security areas—were initially met with stiff resistance in Hanoi. After a short-lived rebalance to the West during 1987–1989, Vietnam pivoted to China in 1990, a sea change marked by the secret meeting at Chengdu in September that year between Chinese and Vietnamese Communist Party chiefs and heads of government. While reformers in the Vietnamese regime pursued U.S. ties as a doorway to the world and a counterweight to China, conservatives were adamant that China was an ally and America an adversary. In 1990 the balance of power between the two blocs tilted decisively in favor of the conservatives. As a result, Vietnam remained near the Chinese orbit and was careful not to veer close to the equidistant line between the two great powers. At his visit to China in December 2001, Vietnam Communist Party chief Nong Duc Manh vowed to oppose “hegemonism,” repeating the Chinese slogan for a fight against U.S. role and power. This was the first time that the anti-U.S. mantra appeared in a joint Sino-Vietnamese statement; but it was also the last.
> 
> The U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 triggered a radical change in Vietnam’s strategic assessment. In less than fifty days, a regional power in the Middle East collapsed under the weight of U.S. military power. Vietnam’s regime conservatives woke up after the conquest realizing that they were living in a unipolar world with the United States at the top. Officials in Hanoi asked me seriously at that time whether Vietnam or North Korea would be the next target. In July 2003, the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam passed a new national-security strategy (usually known as Resolution 8) that removed ideology as the key for determining friend and foe. Hanoi adopted more pragmatic criteria, according to which a foreign state was a “partner of cooperation” (_đối tác_) or a “target of struggle” (_đối tượng_) contingent on its attitude toward Vietnam’s goals, not its ideological orientation. Now the reformers’ pursuit of a strategic partnership with the United States was no longer unthinkable and their view of China as a strategic competitor no longer a taboo. The 2003 strategy also made possible the move toward the equidistant line between China and the United States. In the second half of the year, as Ambassador Burghardt recalled, “Vietnamese leaders informed us they would now welcome major steps that they had resisted for years.”
> 
> The 2003 turning point in Vietnamese foreign policy paved the way for the country to fully join the U.S-led international order. Until the second half of 2003, negotiations on Vietnam’s accession to the World Trade Organization (WTO) moved at a snail’s pace because conservatives who viewed the WTO as a U.S. scheme to turn Vietnam into a capitalist country were able to block them. After the 2003 strategy, Hanoi accelerated the negotiation and quickly joined the group in 2006. Vietnam became a globalization enthusiast and in 2008 it readily accepted the Bush administration’s offer to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a U.S.-led free-trade arrangement with even more transformative effect than the WTO.
> 
> Starting in the late 2000s, increased Chinese challenges, particularly Beijing’s assertiveness in the South China Sea, gave a new impetus to the emerging U.S.-Vietnam partnership. A year after her July 2010 declaration at the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Forum in Hanoi that “the United States has a national interest” in the South China Sea, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton laid out a new U.S. strategy, often called the “pivot,” in which the United States aspired to develop a strategic partnership with Vietnam. During her trip to Vietnam in July 2012, Clinton made a profound gesture of friendship by inviting Communist Party chief Nguyen Phu Trong, who held no government position, to the United States. The Americans hoped at that time that Trong’s unprecedented visit would be made right in 2013.
> 
> But conservatives in Hanoi were able to torpedo the preparation for Trong’s trip. What Vietnam’s reformers and their American counterpart could reach in 2013 was not the Communist Party chief’s visit to the United States but one by President Truong Tan Sang, which culminated in a joint statement of the U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership. It would take a major act of Chinese provocation to remove the roadblocks set up by the conservatives.
> 
> In the summer of 2014, China deployed its biggest oil rig, the $1 billion HYSY-981, into Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone. The incident sparked months-long intense protests from Vietnam, causing the worst crisis in Sino-Vietnamese relations since the massacre of seventy Vietnamese sailors and seizure of six reefs in the Spratly Islands by China in 1988. The oil rig crisis proved a game changer—it helped Vietnamese leaders to see China as a real opponent and America as a best friend. It was during this crisis that Hanoi decided to speed up preparations for General Secretary Trong’s U.S. trip, which would be materialized in July 2015.
> 
> President Barack Obama’s protocol-breaking hosting of Vietnam’s Communist Party chief at the White House was a path-breaking event. It sent a costly signal that convinced Vietnamese leaders of the benign nature of U.S. power regarding their communist regime. If the oil rig crisis of 2014 marked the first time that Hanoi trusted Washington more than it trusted Beijing, Trong’s U.S. trip solidified this disposition and drastically reduced Vietnamese leaders’ perception of the U.S. threat. Obama’s visit to Vietnam in May 2016, during which he completely lifted the arms embargo that the United States imposed on Vietnam for decades, added another boost to increasing mutual trust and reducing threat perception between the two former enemies.
> 
> U.S.-Vietnam relations operate within a relatively restricted field of possibility that is primarily shaped not just by the United States and Vietnam but also by China, albeit indirectly. As Vietnam is the secondary state between the two great powers, a vital question for Hanoi is how to manage its political and diplomatic distance (or proximity) to Beijing and Washington. From 1990 until the second half of 2003, Vietnam remained near the Chinese orbit; even a position close to the equidistant line between America and China was politically impossible. The U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 radically changed Hanoi’s appraisal of the global balance of power. The national-security strategy adopted in July 2003 allowed Vietnam to reach the equidistant line, but moving toward that line was in no way frictionless and Vietnam continued to oscillate within the Chinese side of the line. The HYSY-981 oil rig crisis of 2014 helped Hanoi to break free of these self-imposed restrictions. Within just a few years, Vietnam moved to the vicinity of the equidistant line, at times even crossed the line to be relatively closer to the United States. This is the enabling, but also constraining, context within which Prime Minister Phuc will visit the United States next week.
> 
> The plateau on which the U.S.-Vietnam engagement operates is made of convergent interests and mutual trust. It is elevated largely by a combination of China’s aggressive power and America’s competent and kind power. The two major turning points in U.S. policy toward Vietnam (2001 and 2011) resulted from the view that China’s revisionist power needed to be balanced and that Vietnam could play a key role in that effort. China’s perceived aggressiveness was also the cause of the second turning point in Vietnam’s U.S. policy (2014). But the first turning point in Vietnam’s U.S. policy (2003) was the combined effect of U.S. brilliant power as demonstrated in the Iraq invasion and America’s benign power embodied in Washington’s initiatives of dialogue and cooperation with Hanoi.
> 
> *How to Make America Great with Vietnam*
> 
> While managing the political and diplomatic distance to Washington and Beijing is vital to Vietnam’s well-being between the giants, managing Hanoi’s perception of the international balance of power is a key to America’s success in Asia. The latter involves three major aspects: boosting both countries’ economic and military capabilities, demonstrating America’s competence in the hegemonic contest with China, and maintaining a friendly attitude toward Vietnam.
> 
> These imperatives can be materialized by a wide range of policies that are not confined to bilateral U.S.-Vietnam relations. With regard to U.S. policy toward Vietnam, three arrangements hold the key to the pursuit of these imperatives: a forward-looking trade and investment pact; a pro-law—not pro-status quo—approach to the South China Sea; and a comprehensive strategic partnership with Vietnam.
> 
> *A Forward-Looking Trade and Investment Pact*
> 
> The United States and Vietnam need a robust trade and investment pact that boosts the economic, and indirectly the military, power of both countries in a way that is sustainable in the long run and geopolitically beneficial. The existing bilateral trade and investment agreements fall short of these objectives. In the last decade, both countries were engaged in the negotiation of a new, multilateral trade pact called the Trans-Pacific Partnership that was supposed to serve this triple goal. The TPP would not only open wide market access, but it would also create a counterbalance to China’s economic pull effect and, in the case of Vietnam, force the country to reform its state sector and improve its public spending. However, the 2016 presidential election suggested that the TPP as a whole was domestically undesirable in the United States.
> 
> If a multilateral agreement is difficult to attain, the United States and Vietnam should negotiate a new trade and investment agreement with the triple goal mentioned above in mind. The new arrangement should be aimed at reforming both the current state of U.S.-Vietnam trade and Vietnam’s domestic economic environment. The current situation features a double deficit in favor of China. In 2016, for example, the United States suffered a trade deficit of $32 billion with Vietnam and Vietnam suffered a trade deficit of $28 billion with China. Technology imports from China outweighed those from the United States, resulting in a structural constraint that kept Vietnam on the lower rungs of the technology ladder. The new trade-and-investment pact should be aimed at reducing U.S. trade deficit with Vietnam by increasing U.S. exports of equipment and high-tech goods and reducing Vietnam’s trade deficit with China. To this end, trade negotiations should avoid the usual manner of the give-and-take based on present and special interests. Such myopic tendency can relief immediate pains but is counterproductive in the long run. Instead, the aim of the negotiation should be to improve the domestic environment in Vietnam looking forward so it will create an expanding market for high-quality goods from the United States and shrink the market for low-quality goods from China.
> 
> 
> *A Pro-Law—Not Pro-Status Quo—Approach to the South China Sea*
> 
> Not all places are created equal on the geopolitical chessboard. The economic geography of Asia dictates that whoever controls the sea lines of communication that run through the East and South China Seas will dominate Asia. China’s recent building of artificial islands in the Paracel and Spratly Islands has made the South China Sea a bottleneck on Asia’s lifeline, which carries 80–90 percent of the oil imports to China and Japan. If China can turn the South China Sea into a Chinese lake, then America’s role and influence in Asia will be severely undermined.
> 
> The South China Sea is where the core interests of the United States, Vietnam and China intersect. Freedom of the seas and sea-lane security (the United States and Vietnam vs. China), territorial security (Vietnam vs. China) and regional balance of power (the United States and Vietnam vs. China) are at stake in this place. While U.S. and Vietnamese interests here overlap substantially, they clash with those of China diametrically.
> 
> For years the United States’ approach to the South China Sea has been aimed at maintaining the status quo, while China’s is to creepingly shift it in Beijing’s favor. By acting in the gray zone between peace and open conflict and moving like slicing the salami, Beijing has been successful in changing both the geography and the power propensity of the region without triggering an armed resistance from its opponents. By clinging to the status quo, Washington inadvertently ties itself to the evolving status quo that reflects Chinese advantage and disables itself to roll back to the status quo ante, which is its real goal.
> 
> The choice of the pro-status quo approach is based on three assumptions. First, as a defensive posture, it is morally justifiable. Second, the status quo is favorable to U.S. interests than a revision of it. And third, the pro-status quo approach helps to avoid war as it tends to de-escalate conflict and defuse tension.
> 
> The latter two of these assumptions are wrong, however. It is the status quo ante, not the status quo, that is favorable to U.S. interests. The current status quo in the South China Sea—with China’s large artificial islands, long airstrips, deep-water harbors, surface-to-air and anti-ship missiles, and high-frequency radars—is far less favorable to the status quo ante that existed before the building of the artificial islands. But the pro-status quo approach commits the United States to the current status quo and dismisses a rollback to the status quo ante as unreasonable. This allows China to shape the evolving status quo to the expense of the United States and other stakeholders, brewing conflict below the surface. While the pro-status quo approach may be able to temporarily stop conflict from escalating on the surface, it is unable to stop conflict from brewing below it. When this brewing reaches a tipping point, war may be too late to prevent.
> 
> In the place of the failing pro-status quo approach, the United States should adopt a pro-law approach. The law here refers to the set of laws and legal precedents that are consistent with the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and other universally recognized principles of international law. The pro-law approach is better than the pro-status quo one on three counts. First, it has the moral high ground of the law while the pro-status quo approach is morally justifiable just because it is defensive. The status quo may be just or unjust, but the law is the law. Second, the pro-law approach endeavors to roll back Chinese expansion to a state of affairs that is consistent with the 2016 ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration. This ruling has invalidated the nine-dash line and reduced the disputed waters in the South China Sea from about 80 percent to about 20 percent of the region. This state of affairs is favorable to anyone that has a stake in the freedom of the seas in the South China Sea. Third, the pro-law approach may cause tension to rise temporarily, but there are ways to avoid war when pursuing it. Elsewhere I have outlined a strategythat can contain both Chinese expansion and a U.S.-China war at the same time. At the core of this strategy lies a “whole of capability” approach that combines gray-zone activities with economic sanctions and other indirect measures.
> 
> *A Comprehensive Strategic Partnership with Vietnam*
> 
> Although the United States remains the sole global power in the foreseeable future, China is rapidly narrowing its power gap with the United States in the East Asia region and is poised to become America’s peer regionally. U.S. primacy in this region is being replaced with a new, bipolar regional configuration that features the United States and China as its two poles. In order to stand the ground and maintain its influence, the United States will badly need regional allies.
> 
> If allied with the Unites States, Vietnam can augment American power to a great extent. This additional power stems primarily from Vietnam’s strategic location along a bottleneck of the region’s lifeline and at a major gateway to China and its defense capabilities rooted in a large population of more than ninety million and the rich historical experience of dealing with China in war as well as in peace for more than two thousand years.
> 
> This alliance is more than just a defense treaty and may not require the formal defense commitment similar to that between the United States and its treaty allies in the region. It needs codification and this can take the title of a “comprehensive strategic partnership.”
> 
> Washington and Hanoi have been moving in this direction. The U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership declared in 2013 calls for cooperation in a full range of areas, stretching from political and diplomatic relations to trade and economic ties, from technology and education to defense and security, from culture, sports and tourism to war legacy issues, and from environment and health to the protection of human rights. Facing with the growing challenge from China, this partnership needs to be deepened and upgraded to a more strategic level that will allow the United States and Vietnam to adequately meet the epochal challenge.
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> Speaking to U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer on May 20 in Hanoi, Prime Minister Phuc said, “I would like to see the United States continue to maintain its presence in the region.” Just five years ago, this was what some top leaders in Hanoi could only think privately but not say publicly. The field of possibility for U.S.-Vietnam interaction has expanded significantly over the last two decades. The limits and shape of this field of possibility result from both countries’ policies toward each other, which in turn reflect the perceptions of leaders in Washington and Hanoi of the global and Asian balance of power. A key to win the geopolitical game in Asia lies in the skillful management of these perceptions.
> 
> At its core, a winning U.S. policy toward Vietnam must perform three major tasks. It must conclude a forward-looking trade and investment agreement that helps to improve Vietnam’s domestic environment, creates an expanding market for high-quality U.S. goods and shrinks the market for low-quality Chinese goods. It must transform the United States’ approach to the South China Sea from one that is wedded to the status quo to one that endeavors to enforce the international law of the sea. Finally, it must achieve a U.S.-Vietnam alliance that can neutralize Chinese primacy in Southeast Asia.
> 
> _Alexander L. Vuving is Professor at the Daniel K. Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies. Part of the research for this article has been supported by the MacArthur Foundation Project on Energy Security and Maritime Strategies in the Indo-Pacific. The author alone is responsible for the views expressed in this article._


Now you know why Vietnam had such a long history of being colonized. 
You got people who have no qualms to collude with foreigners.
.


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## Viet

sinait said:


> Now you know why Vietnam had such a long history of being colonized.
> You got people who have no qualms to collude with foreigners.
> .


Singapore had been long colonized, have your people the tendency to collude with foreigners? you probably know from the physics: reaction follows action. In case of VN, if no provocation then we won't be forced to respond. you are right on one point: the risk is high, but considering the high stakes on the table I think it is worth to take the risk.


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## sinait

Viet said:


> Singapore had been long colonized, have your people the tendency to collude with foreigners? you probably know from the physics: reaction follows action. In case of VN, if no provocation then we won't be forced to respond. you are right on one point: the risk is high, but considering the high stakes on the table I think it is worth to take the risk.


Its so sad, but true.
Some Asians are even proud of being colonized, and with their relative wealth look down upon those who choose not to be colonized. In the Philippines, those who submit to their invaders became richer and wield more power and subsequently went on to bully those who are marginalized and became the minority. Luckily in Singapore, it is compulsory to learn the mother language, a LKY policy. Incredibly, there are some who will migrate to avoid having their children learn their mother language,(Stockholm syndrome??). 

Though I sympathize with those Muslims who resist the colonizers and became a minority in their own country, I am unfortunately happy with this outcome, haha. Sort of crocodile tears.
Similarly without the colonizers, I wouldn't be in Singapore. Again I benefit from colonization, which is unfortunate. 
Vietnam fought off their colonizers, while Singapore had it easier. We continue to use the language and connections of the colonizers and became rich. The colonizers allow Singapore to control the surrounding air space and sea lanes you allude to in another thread. I didn't reply to you, not wanting to offend our neighbors. It should not surprise anybody as these colonizers with their plundered riches and vast conquered lands, are able to reward those who pander to them.

I do have reservations on a powerful China. But I rather have a Multi Polar World than forever being under the hegemony of the imperial colonizers with their version of international laws and trading rules meant to perpetually preserve their predominance.
Therefore Asians must overcome the divisive problems left in place by the colonizers. 

Relax, I found you to be a bit strung up these days.
Where is your cheerful self? 
Needled too much by those Nationalists??
.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> Its so sad, but true.
> Some Asians are even proud of being colonized, and with their relative wealth look down upon those who choose not to be colonized. In the Philippines, those who submit to their invaders became richer and wield more power and subsequently went on to bully those who are marginalized and became the minority. Luckily in Singapore, it is compulsory to learn the mother language, a LKY policy. Incredibly, there are some who will migrate to avoid having their children learn their mother language,(Stockholm syndrome??).
> 
> Though I sympathize with those Muslims who resist the colonizers and became a minority in their own country, I am unfortunately happy with this outcome, haha. Sort of crocodile tears.
> Similarly without the colonizers, I wouldn't be in Singapore. Again I benefit from colonization, which is unfortunate.
> Vietnam fought off their colonizers, while Singapore had it easier. We continue to use the language and connections of the colonizers and became rich. The colonizers allow Singapore to control the surrounding air space and sea lanes you allude to in another thread. I didn't reply to you, not wanting to offend our neighbors. It should not surprise anybody as these colonizers with their plundered riches and vast conquered lands, are able to reward those who pander to them.
> 
> I do have reservations on a powerful China. But I rather have a Multi Polar World than forever being under the hegemony of the imperial colonizers with their version of international laws and trading rules meant to perpetually preserve their predominance.
> Therefore Asians must overcome the divisive problems left in place by the colonizers.
> 
> Relax, I found you to be a bit strung up these days.
> Where is your cheerful self?
> Needled too much by those Nationalists??
> .


Bro actually thing is clear, everybody can see it, no secret at all: Vietnam wants peace and prosperity. Maintaining balance of power in the region is the key in achieving that goal. The danger of abuse of power is great if one country can dominate all.

Vietnam way to peace and prosperity is at risk, if the foreigners dictate our way of life, threatening our country and our people if their demands aren't sastified. No, we don't want to be colonized.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Bro actually thing is clear, everybody can see it, no secret at all: Vietnam wants peace and prosperity. Maintaining balance of power in the region is the key in achieving that goal. The danger of abuse of power is great if one country can dominate all.
> 
> Vietnam way to peace and prosperity is at risk, if there is a foreign country that dictates our way of life, threatening our country and our people if their demands aren't sastified.


Agreed. That country abusing its great power now is the USA.
Also agreed that some members are too harsh with you.
Very normal to lash back after being needled, haha.

But you need to also consider all that China bashing and ridicule that Chinese members had been receiving for so many years. The vitriol against China is unprecedented and exponentially greater than what the Japanese received during their copycat phase. No developing country can afford to waste time reinventing the wheel. Its not easy to replicate a device that works albeit at a lower quality but at much lower cost.
China managed to overcome many odds, against many unreasonable obstacles placed by the US, including joining the WTO under unfavorable conditions, to emerge at its eminence now. An admirable feat.

As a big nation, China is considered much benign compared to the natives exterminating Americans and imperial British which a lot of modern conflicts are of their making. Add to that all those colonizers who enforce their way of life and religion onto their conquered minions, Spaniards in the Philippines and Latin America, and Buddhism and Hinduism have all but disappeared in Afghanistan, Indonesia, Central Asia, etc. You think Japan has monoculture because it is benign? Or they genocide and exterminated the rest? Be glad that Japan is not close to Vietnam.
And you say China dictate others way of life?

China may decline to invite our Prime Minister to their OBOR meeting to show subtly their displeasure with us, but that is not dictating our way of life. More like trying to influence us, which is fine.

Don't worry, Vietnam will rise and have its day soon.
Asians must unite.
Cheers. 
.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> Agreed. That country abusing its great power now is the USA.
> Also agreed that some members are too harsh with you.
> Very normal to lash back after being needled, haha.
> 
> But you need to also consider all that China bashing and ridicule that Chinese members had been receiving for so many years. The vitriol against China is unprecedented and exponentially greater than what the Japanese received during their copycat phase. No developing country can afford to waste time reinventing the wheel. Its not easy to replicate a device that works albeit at a lower quality but at much lower cost.
> China managed to overcome many odds, against many unreasonable obstacles placed by the US, including joining the WTO under unfavorable conditions, to emerge at its eminence now. An admirable feat.
> 
> As a big nation, China is considered much benign compared to the natives exterminating Americans and imperial British which a lot of modern conflicts are of their making. Add to that all those colonizers who enforce their way of life and religion onto their conquered minions, Spaniards in the Philippines and Latin America, and Buddhism and Hinduism have all but disappeared in Afghanistan, Indonesia, Central Asia, etc. You think Japan has monoculture because it is benign? Or they genocide and exterminated the rest? Be glad that Japan is not close to Vietnam.
> And you say China dictate others way of life?
> 
> China may decline to invite our Prime Minister to their OBOR meeting to show subtly their displeasure with us, but that is not dictating our way of life. More like trying to influence us, which is fine.
> 
> Don't worry, Vietnam will rise and have its day soon.
> Asians must unite.
> Cheers.
> .


I never say America/Japan are angel. The Chinese aren't either. Yes I once said Vietnam is better off if we are an island protected by vast ocean and hungry sharks. The Vietnamese may constantly talk of history but we don't hang on the past. No We won't stand on anyone way if the country has peaceful intention, bringing prosperity.

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## Viet

*US/Vietnam summit *

May 29, arrival of the Vietnamese delegation led by PM Phuc in New York City. He will hold talks with the UN representatives, members of US Congress and Vietnamese businesses and community, before departing for Washington. The meeting with Donald Trump in the White House is scheduled for May 31. Vietnam is a small fish in respect to military and economy, but it is reported that Phuc will put an attractive offer on the table, that Trump can hardly resist.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> I never say America/Japan are angel. The Chinese aren't either. Yes I once said Vietnam is better off if we are an island protected by vast ocean and hungry sharks. The Vietnamese may constantly talk of history but we don't hang on the past. No We won't stand on anyone way if the country has peaceful intention, bringing prosperity.


Like Australia? or Philippines ?
High chance I will retire in either of these 2.

I think Vietnam is a very nice place. Not on the equator, but not far up as well, so not too cold.
Very good place to launch rockets and vie for satellite launching biz with India.
With a long coast line, the country should be cool and breezy.
Like you said, lets not hang on to the past.
Lets avoid conflict in the SCS.
Should I say you are lucky to have home in Vietnam.
.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> Like Australia? or Philippines ?
> High chance I will retire in either of these 2.
> 
> I think Vietnam is a very nice place. Not on the equator, but not far up as well, so not too cold.
> Very good place to launch rockets and vie for satellite launching biz with India.
> With a long coast line, the country should be cool and breezy.
> Like you said, lets not hang on to the past.
> Lets avoid conflict in the SCS.
> Should I say you are lucky to have home in Vietnam.
> .


Vietnam is not too bad, but Singapore is a better place. Cleaner and safer. I would retire there. No offense but not a single Vietnamese can imagine to retire in the Philippines. We aren't rich, but no reason to go to a place full of violence and poverty. America and Europe are no longer safe places against terror attacks but still offer plenty of opportunities. Most Vietnamese would go there or to Australia, Japan, Taiwan or Singapore. Oh last but not least, more than money is security. Vietnam is safe place, we have not seen a single terror attack in last 50 years.

China may be the best choice because of close cultural and language similarities but because of on/off tausend years old conflicts between the two nations only few Vietnamese would go to China. The last Vietnamese mass migration to the Middle Kingdom occurred 500 years ago, I believe.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Vietnam is not too bad, but Singapore is a better place. Cleaner and safer. I would retire there. No offense but not a single Vietnamese can imagine to retire in the Philippines. We aren't rich, but no reason to go to a place full of violence and poverty. America and Europe are no longer safe places against terror attacks but still offer plenty of opportunities. Most Vietnamese would go there or to Australia, Japan, Taiwan or Singapore. Oh last but not least, more than money is security. Vietnam is safe place, we have not seen a single terror attack in last 50 years.
> China may be the best choice because of close cultural and language similarities but because of on/off tausend years old conflicts between the two nations only few Vietnamese would go to China. The last Vietnamese mass migration to the Middle Kingdom occurred 500 years ago, I believe.


I agree. Vietnam seems like a good place to go. Not too sure for a foreigner like me though. 
Many years ago, my friend invited me to set up engineering shop in Vietnam. Luckily I declined because he came back with only his shirt on his back. Different teams of officials take turn to cut off his phone, water and electricity and he had to keep on paying them off. Finally he had to give up his shop. 
I got people and place to stay in the Philippines and Australia, so its safer for me.
I do worry about being kidnapped when I'm in the Philippines though, because I got no money to pay them, haha.
I don't mind to be in Vietnam instead though, very nice place indeed.
Southern Chinese and Vietnamese people are very similar, and essentially ethnically similar. Sad that relations are not better.
Singapore quite an efficient place, good for working and make money, but its too small.
Are you sure you want to retire here? I don't think its a good idea.
.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> I agree. Vietnam seems like a good place to go. Not too sure for a foreigner like me though.
> Many years ago, my friend invited me to set up engineering shop in Vietnam. Luckily I declined because he came back with only his shirt on his back. Different teams of officials take turn to cut off his phone, water and electricity and he had to keep on paying them off. Finally he had to give up his shop.
> I got people and place to stay in the Philippines and Australia, so its safer for me.
> I do worry about being kidnapped when I'm in the Philippines though, because I got no money to pay them, haha.
> I don't mind to be in Vietnam instead though, very nice place indeed.
> Southern Chinese and Vietnamese people are very similar, and essentially ethnically similar. Sad that relations are not better.
> Singapore quite an efficient place, good for working and make money, but its too small.
> Are you sure you want to retire here? I don't think its a good idea.
> .


I have to count the immigration stamps in my passport to see how many times but believe I have been to Singapore seven times. Believe it or not, every time I return I feel like coming home. I go to a certain street food corner to have my Hainan chicken rice. It is like when I return to Vietnam. True Singapore is small, but the greatness lies in the smallness. Vietnam has greater landmass, but are we great? Actually not, if you see our corruption problem. Coming home with a shirt on the back. Yes it sucks. Corruption is Vietnam's biggest enemy. Besides incompetence.

Singapore is very successful in fighting corruption. Respect.

We have very complicated relationship to the Chinese. Telling you one story, pls don't tell it to the Chinese. Long ago Vietnam set up a special entity with the country's most talented people, with only one task: maintaining diplomatic channel to China. Vietnam is probably the first country in the world that has a foreign office, with a foreign minister as second head of state. The first head of state is the emperor of Vietnam. One cares of all related matters to China, while the other takes care of domestic policy. Two separate entities.

One day after the Chinese saw thru the trick, they demanded Vietnam to send the first head of state to the imperial court to show respect to the emperor. What do you think how Vietnam responded? Vietnam sent a double to China. Luckily the Chinese were unaware of that disrespect, otherwise they had started a new war against Vietnam.

In short we have little trust to the Chinese, while they have little trust to Vietnam. With such similarities we can be best friends on earth

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## sinait

Viet said:


> I have to count the immigration stamps in my passport to see how many times but believe I have been to Singapore seven times. Believe it or not, every time I return I feel like coming home. I go to a certain street food corner to have my Hainan chicken rice. It is like when I return to Vietnam. True Singapore is small, but the greatness lies in the smallness. Vietnam has greater landmass, but are we great? Actually not, if you see our corruption problem. Coming home with a shirt on the back. Yes it sucks. Corruption is Vietnam's biggest enemy. Besides incompetence.
> 
> Singapore is very successful in fighting corruption. Respect.
> 
> We have very complicated relationship to the Chinese. Telling you one story, pls don't tell it to the Chinese. Long ago Vietnam set up a special entity with the country's most talented people, with only one task: maintaining diplomatic channel to China. Vietnam is probably the first country in the world that has a foreign office, with a foreign minister as second head of state. The first head of state is the emperor of Vietnam. One cares of all related matters to China, while the other takes care of domestic policy. Two separate entities.
> 
> One day after the Chinese saw thru the trick, they demanded Vietnam to send the first head of state to the imperial court to show respect to the emperor. What do you think how Vietnam responded? Vietnam sent a double to China. Luckily the Chinese were unaware of that disrespect, otherwise they had started a new war against Vietnam.
> 
> In short we have little trust to the Chinese, while they have little trust to Vietnam. With such similarities we can be best friends on earth


Well complicated relations better than being wiped out like what the Japanese try to do in Ryuku(Okinawa). If the Japanese had been successful to take over China, I am sure there will not be many Tibetans and Uyghurs left to demonstrate. Likewise the Chinese, when they were powerful, did not bully the Koreans to the extend like how the Japanese subjugated the Koreans.
Ya Hainan rice is quite nice, but I seldom eat hawker food. 
I get puzzled also when I hear from HK visitors that Singapore is nice place to visit, haha.
I guess the other side grass is always greener.

I think Vietnam got great potential, notwithstanding corruption. Difference is those on the take must be competent enough people. That is they get things done, while also benefiting themselves but not excessively so. China is a good example. You think there is no corruption in Singapore? Maybe not much, in fact some will feel insulted that you think they can be bribed.
If not for those pesky colonialists, Vietnam would have been one the the Asian Tigers. 
Asians must unite to topple the war mongering Western hegemony. 
.

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## Viva_Viet

sinait said:


> Well complicated relations better than being wiped out like what the Japanese try to do in Ryuku(Okinawa). If the Japanese had been successful to take over China, I am sure there will not be many Tibetans and Uyghurs left to demonstrate. Likewise the Chinese, when they were powerful, did not bully the Koreans to the extend like how the Japanese subjugated the Koreans.
> Ya Hainan rice is quite nice, but I seldom eat hawker food.
> I get puzzled also when I hear from HK visitors that Singapore is nice place to visit, haha.
> I guess the other side grass is always greener.
> 
> I think Vietnam got great potential, notwithstanding corruption. Difference is those on the take must be competent enough people. That is they get things done, while also benefiting themselves but not excessively so. China is a good example. You think there is no corruption in Singapore? Maybe not much, in fact some will feel insulted that you think they can be bribed.
> If not for those pesky colonialists, Vietnam would have been one the the Asian Tigers.
> *Asians must unite to topple the war mongering Western hegemony. *
> .


If China leader Deng didnt beg for US daddy help for VN-Sino war in 1979, then VN would unify the whole sub-Mekong region with the support from Soviet Union in 1979 already.

U say good things abt CN, blah blah abt solidarity etc, but u forgot that its CN leader Deng who begged for US daddy to come back Asia in 1979 after VN kick US out of the region in 1975.


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## Carlosa

sinait said:


> I agree. Vietnam seems like a good place to go. Not too sure for a foreigner like me though.
> Many years ago, my friend invited me to set up engineering shop in Vietnam. Luckily I declined because he came back with only his shirt on his back. Different teams of officials take turn to cut off his phone, water and electricity and he had to keep on paying them off. Finally he had to give up his shop.
> I got people and place to stay in the Philippines and Australia, so its safer for me.
> I do worry about being kidnapped when I'm in the Philippines though, because I got no money to pay them, haha.
> I don't mind to be in Vietnam instead though, very nice place indeed.
> Southern Chinese and Vietnamese people are very similar, and essentially ethnically similar. Sad that relations are not better.
> Singapore quite an efficient place, good for working and make money, but its too small.
> Are you sure you want to retire here? I don't think its a good idea.
> .



Da Nang is a good place to retire in Vietnam, many foreigners living there now including myself, but still, have to go there and spend some time to really feel the place. Cebu in PH is not too bad.



sinait said:


> I think Vietnam got great potential, notwithstanding corruption. Difference is those on the take must be competent enough people. That is they get things done, while also benefiting themselves but not excessively so. China is a good example. You think there is no corruption in Singapore? Maybe not much, in fact some will feel insulted that you think they can be bribed.
> If not for those pesky colonialists, Vietnam would have been one the the Asian Tigers.
> Asians must unite to topple the war mongering Western hegemony.
> .



That is precisely the way it is in Da Nang, they are all corrupted as it is the norm in Vietnam, but they have developed Da Nang into the most efficient and best administered city in Vietnam and the most livable. Its worth a visit mate.

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## sinait

Viva_Viet said:


> If China leader Deng didnt beg for US daddy help for VN-Sino war in 1979, then VN would unify the whole sub-Mekong region with the support from Soviet Union in 1979 already.
> U say good things abt CN, blah blah abt solidarity etc, but u forgot that its CN leader Deng who begged for US daddy to come back Asia in 1979 after VN kick US out of the region in 1975.


Viet said, your relations with China are complicated. Its best that both countries try to reconcile so as to not fall for the West divide and rule tactics. No point saying how China is bad, it will just invite Chinese members to blast right back.
Again according to Viet, Vietnamese do not dwell on the past but look to the future, and yet members like yourself keep getting stuck in the time tunnel. I am no expert on China Vietnam relations, but both countries should cooperate and break out of this devious scheme to create conflict among Asians.
I believe the rise of China has benefited Vietnam.
Vietnam has witnessed how a communist country can prosper with the right economic policies and democracy is not a prerequisite.
Investments from Chinese companies had helped kick start the Vietnamese industrialization.
Please correct me if I got it wrong as I said before I am neither an expert nor from China.

China had been relatively benign when they were powerful. They are not like the Japanese who force their way of life and Japanese names onto the Koreans and the Ryukyuans(Okinawa). I believe the Vietnamese did not lose their way of life and culture to the Chinese as well.
Likewise Chinese naval commander Zheng He did not impose their will upon those countries they visit in their powerful ships. Sri Lanka bears witness to the help that Zheng He render to them during the Chinese naval commander travels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming-Kotte_War

Contrast the Chinese with the marauding Western colonialist who commit plunder, genocide and enslavement of those they visit. A visit from the colonialist is like a visit from Satan. Whereas the Chinese are welcomed, as can be verified by the account of the Sulu(Philippines) Sultan.
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2015/09/12/1498840/sultan-sulu-buried-china

The Chinese had been plying the South China Seas like their lake since centuries ago, and that's how there are so many Chinese diaspora in South East Asia since centuries ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Philippines__(900–1521)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish-Moro_conflict
Therefore I believe that the South China Sea islands belong to China. Just my personal belief, won't debate it with you.

I believe China is open to negotiations with Vietnam to move forward and leave the past behind.
In this I support Duterte. Bread and butter are more important than fighting for far away islands that the Philippines presently have no power or expertise to reap any benefit. leave that for a later time.
Looking forward to a unified prosperous Asia I remain.
.


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## Viet

Let return. some news of the day.

Netherlands queen Maxima in Vietnam. A small country however with a industrial capacity of a giant, especially in agriculture.















High expectation before the summit in the While House. Some western media as Reuters report Vietnam and US businesses will sign deals worth $17 billion. I'm very curious to see how Donald Trump receives Vietnam government chief. During his recent visit to Europe, Trump blasts Angela Merkel in the public, criticizing Germany trade and defense policy, pushing the relationship to a crisis not seen since decades. The Germans are not amused. 






The 4 countries of Latin America: Mexico, Peru, Columbia and Chile want a stronger tie with Vietnam. That is nice.






http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?...o-and-peru-promote-stronger-ties-with-vietnam

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## Viva_Viet

sinait said:


> Viet said, your relations with China are complicated. Its best that both countries try to reconcile so as to not fall for the West divide and rule tactics. No point saying how China is bad, it will just invite Chinese members to blast right back.
> Again according to Viet, Vietnamese do not dwell on the past but look to the future, and yet members like yourself keep getting stuck in the time tunnel. I am no expert on China Vietnam relations, but both countries should cooperate and break out of this devious scheme to create conflict among Asians.
> I believe the rise of China has benefited Vietnam.
> Vietnam has witnessed how a communist country can prosper with the right economic policies and democracy is not a prerequisite.
> Investments from Chinese companies had helped kick start the Vietnamese industrialization.
> Please correct me if I got it wrong as I said before I am neither an expert nor from China.
> 
> China had been relatively benign when they were powerful. They are not like the Japanese who force their way of life and Japanese names onto the Koreans and the Ryukyuans(Okinawa). I believe the Vietnamese did not lose their way of life and culture to the Chinese as well.
> Likewise Chinese naval commander Zheng He did not impose their will upon those countries they visit in their powerful ships. Sri Lanka bears witness to the help that Zheng He render to them during the Chinese naval commander travels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming-Kotte_War
> 
> Contrast the Chinese with the marauding Western colonialist who commit plunder, genocide and enslavement of those they visit. A visit from the colonialist is like a visit from Satan. Whereas the Chinese are welcomed, as can be verified by the account of the Sulu(Philippines) Sultan.
> http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2015/09/12/1498840/sultan-sulu-buried-china
> 
> The Chinese had been plying the South China Seas like their lake since centuries ago, and that's how there are so many Chinese diaspora in South East Asia since centuries ago.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Philippines__(900–1521)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish-Moro_conflict
> Therefore I believe that the South China Sea islands belong to China. Just my personal belief, won't debate it with you.
> 
> I believe China is open to negotiations with Vietnam to move forward and leave the past behind.
> In this I support Duterte. Bread and butter are more important than fighting for far away islands that the Philippines presently have no power or expertise to reap any benefit. leave that for a later time.
> Looking forward to a unified prosperous Asia I remain.
> .


Its not just "keep getting stuck in the time tunnel" as everyone can see that, in history CN useless army alone could not stop VN expansion, thats why Deng must beg for help from JP-US to stop VN in 1979





*A part of Thailand became the land of "French Indochina."

. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indo...onesian-officer-held-by-vietnam.497884/page-2

But now, US-JP turn to support VN, so unifying sub-Mekong region is just a matter of time. When VN can unify sub Mekong and take control of Malacca strait, then you can 'retire' in CN coz VN will send all "CN supporter " back to CN main land just like we sent back all CNese ethnic in VN-Laos-Cambodia who supportted CN back to CN main land in 1979 .


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## sinait

Viva_Viet said:


> Its not just "keep getting stuck in the time tunnel" as everyone can see that, in history CN useless army alone could not stop VN expansion, thats why Deng must beg for help from JP-US to stop VN in 1979.
> *A part of Thailand became the land of "French Indochina."
> 
> . https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indo...onesian-officer-held-by-vietnam.497884/page-2
> 
> But now, US-JP turn to support VN, so unifying sub-Mekong region is just a matter of time. When VN can unify sub Mekong and take control of Malacca strait, then you can 'retire' in CN coz VN will send all "CN supporter " back to CN main land just like we sent back all CNese ethnic in VN-Laos-Cambodia who supportted CN back to CN main land in 1979 .


Forgot to take your pills?? CIA paid shill??
.


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## Viet

Come on boys, let remain calm and cool

An interview with Michael Michalak, the former U.S. ambassador to Vietnam. After a little discourse to history he explains how Vietnam responds to China increasing threat, expecting Vietnam to emerge as leader of Southeast Asia and ASEAN. We will see how far we can achieve but I bet sis Mado may not be happy.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Come on boys, let remain calm and cool
> 
> An interview with Michael Michalak, the former U.S. ambassador to Vietnam. After a little discourse to history he explains how Vietnam responds to China increasing threat, expecting Vietnam to emerge as leader of Southeast Asia and ASEAN. We will see how far we can achieve but I bet sis Mado may not be happy.
> 
> View attachment 400246


when did we want to become the leader of ASEAN? In Vietnam, I rarely hear about that, We always said the ASEAN was the pond of a poor village, and in some aspects It is really a pond, like Seagame. Indonesian has capability and ability to become a power of Asia more than a pond like ASEAN. Vietnam better goes away American and keep the safe distance with American. Keep China in sea is enough, dont need to counter them.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> when did we want to become the leader of ASEAN? In Vietnam, I rarely hear about that, We always said the ASEAN was the pond of a poor village, and in some aspects It is really a pond, like Seagame. Indonesian has capability and ability to become a power of Asia more than a pond like ASEAN. Vietnam better goes away American and keep the safe distance with American. Keep China in sea is enough, dont need to counter them.


Sis I sometimes wish the sky will always be blue with no clouds, but the reality is different. You have sunny days and you have raining and storming days. It is the prediction of the former US ambassador to Vietnam that our country becomes a leader of ASEAN. If it comes or not does not matter, but I think it is better than someone ditates our fate.

No Indonesia has neither the capacity nor the will to fight for Vietnam. Only delusional dreamers believe the indo will intervene on Vietnam behalf if the Chinese turn the region into a slaughterhouse. Have you read indonesia white paper, the official defense policy? For them, the SC sea conflict does not exist. Any confrontation can be ruled out.

Do you believe anyone in SE Asia will stand up if the Chinese take the islands and seas from Vietnam?

How do you want to keep the Chinese at distance but not wanting to confront them? If the Chinese continue to advance in the South China Sea, taking the control piece by piece, the day is not far away, when our fishermen and our navy can't more go than our coast line.

America is no longer Vietnam's enemy. Why should we not increase our cooperation with them? Should we stop our cooperations with France and Japan too because they are our former enemies? But for what reasons? To sastify some peaceful rise propaganda of some people, keeping our nation weak, poor and vulnerable?

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Sis I sometimes wish the sky will always be blue with no clouds, but the reality is different. You have sunny days and you have raining and storming days. It is the prediction of the former US ambassador to Vietnam that our country becomes a leader of ASEAN. If it comes or not does not matter, but I think it is better than someone ditates our fate.
> 
> No Indonesia has neither the capacity nor the will to fight for Vietnam. Only delusional dreamers believe the indo will intervene on Vietnam behalf if the Chinese turn the region into a slaughterhouse. Have you read indonesia white paper, the official defense policy? For them, the SC sea conflict does not exist. Any confrontation can be ruled out.
> 
> Do you believe anyone in SE Asia will stand up if the Chinese take the islands and seas from Vietnam?
> 
> How do you want to keep the Chinese at distance but not wanting to confront them? If the Chinese continue to advance in the South China Sea, taking the control piece by piece, the day is not far away, when our fishermen and our navy can't more go than our coast line.
> 
> America is no longer Vietnam's enemy. Why should we not increase our cooperation with them? Should we stop our cooperations with France and Japan too because they are our former enemies? But for what reasons? To sastify some peaceful rise propaganda of some people, keeping our nation weak, poor and vulnerable?



No, I dont believe Indonesia will become Vietnam's ally to against China on SCS, They has no reason and interests to do that, Even when they are, we also can't against China's aggression on SCS. Indonesia in my thought is not a real power now. But I have friendly eyes for all countries over the world. This includes Indonesia. Vietnam and Indo has no conflicts and I think We should improve the relation between two countries more than the quarrel. Well, Maybe my knowledge is so limited to give the suitable opinion. I know I need to learn more and more than. In Vietnam has one proverb: Between the fighting of two buffalos , the mosquito would die. I dont want we become the mosquito and a pawn of the exchange the interests between China and USA like the USSR and China in the past. Do you believe USA want to stand up to against China in SCS? I dont think, They only want to bargain more interests from China. No more, Put the belief in USA is so naive.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> No, I dont believe Indonesia will become Vietnam's ally to against China on SCS, They has no reason and interests to do that, Even when they are, we also can't against China's agression on SCS. Indonesia in my thought is not a real power now. But I have friendly eyes for all countries over the world. This including Indonesia. Vietnam and Indo has no conflicts and I think We should improve the relation between two countries more than the quarrel. Well, Maybe my knowledge is so limited to give the suitable opinion. I know I need to learn more and more than. In Vietnam has one proverb: Between the fighting of two buffalos , the mosquito would die. I dont want we become the mosquito and a pawn of the exchange the interests between China and USA like the USSR and China in the past. Do you believe USA want to stand up to against China in SCS? I dont think, They only want to bargain more interests from China. No more, Put the belief in USA is so naive.


Look, our intention is clear: we want to defend our territories at all cost. Everything else is secondary. Regardless of our enemy be an elephant or a mosquito. It is up to the US or Japan if they want to ally with us or not in our fight. If I was them I would think how the US want to defend the Philippines and Singapore if the Chinese take over the SC sea, forbidding the operation of US warships. How long can Japan survive if Japanese vessels can't sail thru the waters of the most important sea lanes?

The fate of Korea and Taiwan would be at risk too.

Of course the cheap rhetoric of ASEAN leadership is not worth a penny, solving the escalating conflict.

Sure a possible fight between the US and China is not our fight. We just watch.

You should avoid falling into the trap, using the word "pawn" often used by the Chinese to insult our nation and people.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> No, I dont believe Indonesia will become Vietnam's ally to against China on SCS, They has no reason and interests to do that, Even when they are, we also can't against China's aggression on SCS. Indonesia in my thought is not a real power now. But I have friendly eyes for all countries over the world. This includes Indonesia. Vietnam and Indo has no conflicts and I think We should improve the relation between two countries more than the quarrel. Well, Maybe my knowledge is so limited to give the suitable opinion. I know I need to learn more and more than. In Vietnam has one proverb: Between the fighting of two buffalos , the mosquito would die. I dont want we become the mosquito and a pawn of the exchange the interests between China and USA like the USSR and China in the past. Do you believe USA want to stand up to against China in SCS? I dont think, They only want to bargain more interests from China. No more, Put the belief in USA is so naive.



Indonesia does have the potential to be a sort of leader in ASEAN, but from having the potential to actually doing it are 2 very different things, we'll have to see. Indo has a lot of challenges and issues. I don't see it anytime soon.

When it comes to SCS they've been trying to stay neutral and they are trying to get a lot of investment from China. I don't see Indo challenging China other than in the Natuna area. Their interests and ASEAN interests are not quite the same.

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## Viet

Approved. One more star. Congrats to US Major General Lương Xuân Việt. Maybe we can see soon some pictures from the 8th army stationed in South Korea.

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## Svantana

Viet said:


> Have you read indonesia white paper, the official defense policy? For them, the SC sea conflict does not exist. A


first of all I do not mean to offend anybody here,

this is an 2015 Indonesian defence white paper.
https://www.kemhan.go.id/wp-content...NESIA-DEFENCE-WHITE-PAPER-ENGLISH-VERSION.pdf

"the execution of Indonesia’s national defence is intended to maintain and protect the country’s sovereignty, territorial integrity and safety of the nation. The national defence is managed in a total defence system, *which is non- aggressive and expansive to protect national interests*. To solve problems related to and affecting the national defence, Indonesia must prioritise diplomacy supported by modern military force."
---------
We never intent to interupt any domestic affairs neighbour country Indonesia's has, it says in our basic 1945 constitution.
--------
"To respond to every dynamic, Indonesia actively encourages global partnerships, *promotes the spirit of togetherness and establishes a dynamic equilibrium*, a condition characterized by the absence of a dominant state power in the region. This is established on the basis of trust as an opportunity for the increased cooperation and partnership to enhance the nation’s defence power.

In a traditional security perspective, the Asia-Pacific region has very complex opportunities and challenges as well as the risk factors that can lead to conflict between nations. *South China Sea*, East China Sea, the Korean Peninsula disputes, and the tension around some borders needs to be addressed wisely."

we aware about situation in regions around, And we must always be prepared to face the challenges in the region, in last few years we have always conducted military exercises in the Natuna island area to support our readiness if at times the circumstances we do not want to happen in that area. Free to read that link if anyone want to know more about indonesia's defense white paper.

Friendship greetings from Indonesia, Salute

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## Carlosa

*Trump may turn to Vietnam for help on South China Sea*
Nyshka Chandran | @nyshkac
10 Hours AgoCNBC.com
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/trump-may-turn-to-vietnam-for-help-on-south-china-sea.html?

Hanoi could emerge as a key player in Washington's long-term Southeast Asia push that's aimed at neutralizing Beijing's influence in the South China Sea.

On Wednesday, Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc will be the first ASEAN leader to visit the White House since President Donald Trump's election and the U.S. may look to tap into the emerging market's friction with China.





Reuters
A satellite image released by the Asian Maritime Transparency Initiative at Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies shows construction of possible radar tower facilities in the Spratly Islands in the disputed South China Sea.

"Vietnam sits in a very interesting position in Southeast Asia," said Rodger Baker, vice president of strategic analysis at geopolitical intelligence firm Stratfor. Because Hanoi maintains a strong position against Beijing's activities in the South China Sea, Trump may eye Vietnam as a potential counter to China in the disputed area, Baker explained.


The world's second-largest economy claims 90 percent of the sea, home to over 250 islands and rich natural gas reserves, while Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan assert ownership of certain parts. And as Beijing ramps up island-building and military construction in the maritime region — reports recently emerged of Chinese rocket launchers in the Spratly Islands — Hanoi has not shied away from publicly denouncing the mainland.

In 2014, Vietnam witnessed violent protests as demonstrators criticized China's assertiveness in the important waterway while Vietnamese officials lambasted Beijing in March after a Chinese cruise ship visited the Paracel Islands, which are claimed by both countries.

China's territorial expansion has also irked Washington, with Trump promising vowing to halt Beijing's construction of artificial islands days after taking office. And while the president's hands are currently tied as he seeks the mainland's help on reigning in a hostile North Korea, the South China Sea issue still looms large — last week, the Chinese navy deployed two missile frigates to a U.S. Navy warship that sailed near the China-claimed Spratly Islands.

The Vietnamese PM's visit to Washington "adds momentum to a U.S.-Vietnam relationship that is moving in an increasingly strategic direction," Jonathan Stromseth, senior fellow at Brookings, described in a recent note.





Vietnam PM goes to Washington: What to expect 14 Hours Ago | 01:23
Indeed, the two allies have already initiated a series of bilateral military exchanges that could raise eyebrows in Beijing.

"Within the past week or so, Washington has delivered small vessels to the Vietnamese coast guard, there have been naval exchange visits (and) the U.S. has also waived some restrictions on arms exports to Vietnam," said Baker, adding that he expected this type of military cooperation to continue.

Of course, Vietnam isn't Trump's sole ASEAN ally in the maritime conflict.

The White House has been visibly cozying up to several Southeast Asian nations "in the context of rising Chinese influence and growing concerns about the U.S. staying power in the region, particularly after (Washington's) withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership," Stromseth explained.

Over the past month, Vice President Mike Pence has visited Indonesia, Trump has telephoned several ASEAN leaders, including controversial Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte, while Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has hosted ASEAN foreign ministers in Washington.

The White House's demonstrated commitment to the region could "foster conditions that enable constructive multilateral engagement with China in the Asia-Pacific, helping to mitigate strategic rivalry between Washington and Beijing over the long term," Stromseth said.

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## Viet

*Vietnamese American to Play the ‘Biggest New Part’ in ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’*



Ryan General












*“The Last Jedi” panel at the Star Wars Celebration on Friday unveiled the character Rose, a “Resistance” maintenance worker played by Asian American Kelly Marie Tran. *

While it was revealed that she will be joining the main heroes from “The Force Awakens”, not much else was made known about Tran’s character during the panel.

Asked by USA Today how similar she is to Rose, Tran responded simply: “It’s a hard line to say where one person starts and one person ends. Carrie Fisher said something like that and I feel the same way.”







According to IGN, Tran also didn’t want to reveal much and was tight-lipped on her *“biggest new part”. *

In fact, she even kept her involvement with the film secret from everyone she knew: “I told them I was doing an indie movie in Canada. At one point, I actually got some maple syrup so I could bring it back to them so they actually thought I was in Canada.”







She explained, “I just want to do it justice, so thank you, everyone, for letting me be here.”

Shedding more light on the role, director Rian Johnson compared Tran’s character to a young Luke Skywalker.

“[She] has the biggest new part in the movie and ironically is played by the smallest actor,” Johnson said of Tran’s part. “She’s not a soldier. She’s not looking to be a hero, but she gets pulled into a very big adventure with Finn.”

Tran, who has appeared in a series of CollegeHumor Originals, eventually migrated to TV via NBC’s sitcom adaptation of “About a Boy” and Amazon’s “Gortimer Gibbon’s Life on Normal Street”. She joins Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Mark Hamill, the late Carrie Fisher, Adam Driver, Lupita Nyong’o, Domhnall Gleeson, Gwendoline Christie and Andy Serkis for “Star Wars Episode VIII”, which will hit theaters on December 15 of this year.


http://nextshark.com/kelly-marie-tran-star-wars-the-last-jedi/amp/

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## Viet

The flying eye docs make stop in Vietnam. Nice.










Phuc arrives Washington. Cloudy.

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## Carlosa

*PM orders urgent actions to curb illegal fishing *

VNA MONDAY, MAY 29, 2017 




Illustrative image (Source: VNA)
*
Hanoi (VNA) –* The Prime Minister on May 28 issued an official dispatch urging urgent actions to curb and prevent illegal operation of Vietnamese fishing boats and fishermen in foreign waters.

Dispatch No. 732/CD-TTg was issued in the context of rising violations of foreign waters since the end of 2015, involving Vietnamese fishing boats and fishermen, especially those from the central provinces of Quang Ngai, Binh Dinh and Binh Thuan, and the southern provinces of Ba Ria-Vung Tau, Kien Giang, Ca Mau, Ben Tre and Tien Giang.

Their violations have harmed Vietnam’s image in the international area and caused adverse impacts on the country’s seafood export, the document said. 

Accordingly, the PM required the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development (MARD) to promptly submit to the Government for approval a national programme of action on preventing illegal, unreported and unregulated (IUU) fishing, saying the programme must be put into place right after the approval. 

At the same time, the ministry should intensify law enforcement to prevent illegal fishing and impose stricter punishment on both individuals and organisations that violate legal regulations in the field. 

The ministry is instructed to increase negotiations to sign fishery cooperation agreements, set up hotlines to supervise fishing activities and conduct joint patrols with concerned countries.

The PM urged the MARD to instruct fisheries surveillance forces to increase law enforcement while coordinating with ministries, agencies, localities and international organisations to popularise national and international fisheries regulations among relevant organisations and individuals. 

The Ministry of National Defence was required to instruct competent agencies to keep a close watch on fishing boats at sea, step up patrols in bordering and overlapping waters to stop Vietnamese fishing boats from violating foreign waters as well as prevent foreign fishing boats from entering Vietnam’s waters. 

Both ministries were asked to review and amend relevant current policies and regulations to tighten the management of fishing activities.

The PM requested the Ministry of Public Security to team up with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to swiftly identify fishermen arrested by foreign countries to soon bring them home, and strictly manage the released fishermen. 

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs was tasked with protecting Vietnamese fishermen detained abroad and opposing the illegal arrest of Vietnamese fishermen in the country’s waters or overlapping areas without clear delimitation between Vietnam and other countries. 

The Ministry of Information and Communications was ordered to enhance the popularisation of relevant regulations among the public, and coordinate with concerned ministries to announce outcomes of investigation and punishment against individuals and organisations that organize illegal fishing activities. 

The PM also required the People’s Committees of cities and provinces, especially Quang Ngai, Kien Giang, Ca Mau, Binh Dinh, Ba Ria-Vung Tau, Binh Thuan, Ben Tre and Tien Giang, to take measures to punish authorities of localities where there are many illegal fishing activities by fishing boats and fishermen before August 15, 2017. 

The Chairman of provincial or municipal People’s Committees and heads of administrations at lower levels will have to bear responsibility before the PM if they fail to stop the illegal fishing. 

The Prime Minister also instructed several sanctions against fishing boat owners who have repeatedly made violations.-VNA

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Seeks South China Sea Assurances in Prime Minister's US Visit*
Trump has been unusually quiet on the issue of most concern to Vietnam. 

By Du Nhat Dang
May 31, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/05/vietnam-seeks-south-china-sea-assurances-in-prime-ministers-us-visit/

On Wednesday, Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc will be the first Southeast Asia leader to visit the White House since the inauguration of President Donald Trump, part of a three-day visit to the United States.

Now is the time for U.S. President Donald Trump to reassure Vietnam about Washington’s policy toward the South China Sea. Vietnam, as well as some other countries in East Asia and Southeast Asia, still expect U.S. leadership on one of the hottest points in the South China Sea issue: how to deal with China.

Vietnamese leadership has two main possibilities in terms of diplomatic relations. One option is to promote the value of its increasingly improved ties with the United States. The second option is to keep up Vietnam’s tendency of a moderate approach to China, in order to maintain stability at home and abroad.

Vietnam has made efforts to show its willingness to improve relations with the United States since Barack Obama administration. Vietnam, together with the Philippines, has been the most active in confronting China’s claims over the South China Sea.

Compared to the Philippines, Vietnam is perhaps even more forward-leaning, as many Vietnamese consider China their most hated enemy. From school books to thousands of articles on social media and discussions on every street corner, the word “China” has been always stirred up harsh feelings.

If faced with a choice between China and the United States, Vietnamese public opinion would choose the latter. Vietnamese appear more willing to forgive historical enmity with the United States. For example, consider the story of Fulbright University Vietnam’s launch back in 2016. Some Vietnamese media outlets criticized the appointment of former Senator Bob Kerrey as chairman of the board of the new school, because of his role in the massacre at Thanh Phong (Ben Tre) in February 1969. But public opinion at the time tended to protect Kerrey, and called for tolerance as both countries head for the future.

Looking at the history of the United States-Vietnam-China triangle, Vietnam has long played a very important role in the United States’ presence in the Asia-Pacific.

And if North Korea is Trump’s main foreign policy concern at the moment, he should also consider Vietnam’s stance. Last year, Hanoi, in an unusual move, condemned the North Korean nuclear test despite the fact that Pyongyang is one of the few remaining communist countries in the world. Observers consider that Vietnam could serve as the United States’ perfect “bridge” to North Korea.

Trump called on Vietnamese and other Association of Southeast Asia (ASEAN) leaders in April to discuss North Korea.

The improvement in Vietnam- U.S. relations is well-timed. China is accelerating its ambitions to control the South China Sea. According to _Reuters_, China recently installed rocket launchers on Fiery Cross Reef, a dispute feature in the South China Sea, in order to flex its military muscle. Some defense experts have argued that it might already be too late to stop Beijing from dominating the region.

At the same time, China has prompted ASEAN countries to reach an agreement on a South China Sea Code of Conduct (COC) after a meeting between Chinese and ASEAN officials in the Chinese city of Guiyang. The state-run _Global Times_ hailed the progress on the COC, calling it a “symbol of the enhancement of China-ASEAN political mutual trust as well as strengthened will and capability by regional countries to handle regional affairs.” The China-ASEAN consultation “proves that regional countries can take full responsibility in maintaining South China Sea peace and stability without exterior disturbances,” _Global Times _continued.

The progress in China-ASEAN outreach might be partially explained by the fact that Vietnam’s hopes for U.S. support have been dimmed since Trump took office. Hanoi needs a commitment from the Trump administration over the South China Sea, and has not been satisfied with U.S. comments thus far.

Since quitting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Trump has been silent on the South China Sea. Moreover, Trump’s attitude toward powerful allies such as Japan and South Korea has also become cold, in accordance with his “America First” policy. Instead of keeping close to these allies, Trump asked Japan and South Korea to pay more of the costs for sustaining U.S. troops, as well as suggesting that Seoul should pay $1 billion to deploy the U.S. Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system. Japan and South Korea have not been pleased, and this has raised potential concerns in Vietnam too.

Meanwhile, the Philippines seems to be turning toward China and away from the United States. President Rodrigo Duterte arrived in Russia on May 23, and praised Russian President Vladimir Putin as part of his efforts to end Manila’s dependence on the United States. Manila currently holds the rotating chairmanship of ASEAN, and can take advantage of that role to seek benefits. At the moment, Vietnam seems to be the only country in Southeast Asia that wants to be a strong U.S. ally in defying China’s sovereignty claims.

The attitude of the Philippines shows that Trump’s neglect of Asia leads to the risk of sharing U.S. influence in the region. As Trump prioritized bilateral relations over multilateral efforts and highlights the Middle East as the focal point of U.S. diplomacy, China has enlisted much of the Asia-Pacific to its side through a combination of repression and assurances, including the One Belt, One Road initiative. In this context, Phuc’s visit is a chance for Trump to seize back the initiative and give a clear statement of U.S. commitment to the Asia-Pacific.

_Du Nhat Dang is a Vietnamese reporter who works for _Tuoi Tre_ newspaper in Vietnam. He graduated from the Faculty of Journalism and Communication, University of Social Sciences and Humanites in Ho Chi Minh City. He is a fellow at the Reporting ASEAN program, which supports articles about ASEAN._

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## Viet

*Trump hails signing of deals worth 'billions' with Vietnam*
6 Hours Ago Reuters






T.J. Kirkpatrick | Bloomberg | Getty Images - President Donald Trump, left, shakes hands with Nguyen Xuan Phuc, Vietnam's prime minister, at the West Wing of the White House in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, May 31, 2017.


President Donald Trump discussed trade with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc during a White House visit on Wednesday and welcomed the signing of business deals worth billions of dollars and the jobs they would bring.

General Electric Co said earlier it had signed deals with Vietnam worth about $5.58 billion for power generation, aircraft engines and services, its largest ever single combined sale with the country.

"They just made a very large order in the United States - and we appreciate that - for many billions of dollars, which means jobs for the United States and great, great equipment for Vietnam," Trump told reporters at the White House.

Phuc said on Tuesday he would sign deals for U.S. goods and services worth $15 billion to $17 billion during his Washington visit, mainly for high-technology products and for services. Communist Vietnam has gone from being a bitter adversary of the United States during the Cold War to an important partner in the Asia-Pacific, where both countries share concerns about China's rising power.

Phuc told Trump the relationship had undergone "significant upheavals in history," but that the two countries were now "comprehensive partners."

However, while Hanoi and Washington have stepped up security cooperation in recent years, trade has become a potential irritant, with a deficit widening steadily in Vietnam's favor, reaching $32 billion last year, compared with $7 billion a decade earlier.

Trump, who has had strong words for countries with large trade surpluses with the United States, said he would be discussing trade with Phuc, as well as North Korea. Washington has been seeking support for efforts to pressure North Korea to drop its nuclear and missile programs, which have become an increasing threat to the United States. Hanoi has said it shares concerns about North Korea.

Analysts said that while the Trump administration welcomed new business deals with Vietnam, it wants to see moves on trade.

Murray Hiebert, a Southeast Asia expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington said the view was that deals were "nice, but not enough."

"They want Vietnam to bring some ideas about how to tackle the surplus on an ongoing basis, he said.

On Tuesday, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer expressed concern about the rapid growth of the deficit with Vietnam. He said it was a new challenge for the two countries and he was looking to Phuc to help address it. The deficit with Vietnam - Washington's sixth largest - reflects growing imports of Vietnamese semiconductors and other electronics products in addition to more traditional sectors such as footwear, apparel and furniture.

Vietnamese Trade Minister Tran Tuan Anh presented Lighthizer on Tuesday with suggestions to address some U.S. concerns, such as advertising on U.S. social media, electronic payment services and imports of information security and farm products, Vietnam's trade ministry said.

Vietnam also urged the United States to remove an inspection program for catfish, speed import licenses for its fruit and make fair decisions on anti-dumping and anti-subsidy measures on Vietnamese products, the ministry said.

Vietnam was disappointed when Trump ditched the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact, of which Hanoi was expected to be one of the main beneficiaries, and focused U.S. trade policy on reducing deficits. Phuc's meeting with Trump makes him the first Southeast Asian leader to visit the White House under the new administration.

It reflected calls, letters, diplomatic contacts and lower-level visits that started long before Trump took office in Washington, where Vietnam retains a lobbyist at $30,000 a month.

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## Viet

US destroyer John McCain docks at Camranh bay for maintenance.

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## frequency

Viet said:


> *Trump hails signing of deals worth 'billions' with Vietnam*
> 6 Hours Ago Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.J. Kirkpatrick | Bloomberg | Getty Images - President Donald Trump, left, shakes hands with Nguyen Xuan Phuc, Vietnam's prime minister, at the West Wing of the White House in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday, May 31, 2017.
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump discussed trade with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc during a White House visit on Wednesday and welcomed the signing of business deals worth billions of dollars and the jobs they would bring.
> 
> General Electric Co said earlier it had signed deals with Vietnam worth about $5.58 billion for power generation, aircraft engines and services, its largest ever single combined sale with the country.
> 
> "They just made a very large order in the United States - and we appreciate that - for many billions of dollars, which means jobs for the United States and great, great equipment for Vietnam," Trump told reporters at the White House.
> 
> Phuc said on Tuesday he would sign deals for U.S. goods and services worth $15 billion to $17 billion during his Washington visit, mainly for high-technology products and for services. Communist Vietnam has gone from being a bitter adversary of the United States during the Cold War to an important partner in the Asia-Pacific, where both countries share concerns about China's rising power.
> 
> Phuc told Trump the relationship had undergone "significant upheavals in history," but that the two countries were now "comprehensive partners."
> 
> However, while Hanoi and Washington have stepped up security cooperation in recent years, trade has become a potential irritant, with a deficit widening steadily in Vietnam's favor, reaching $32 billion last year, compared with $7 billion a decade earlier.
> 
> Trump, who has had strong words for countries with large trade surpluses with the United States, said he would be discussing trade with Phuc, as well as North Korea. Washington has been seeking support for efforts to pressure North Korea to drop its nuclear and missile programs, which have become an increasing threat to the United States. Hanoi has said it shares concerns about North Korea.
> 
> Analysts said that while the Trump administration welcomed new business deals with Vietnam, it wants to see moves on trade.
> 
> Murray Hiebert, a Southeast Asia expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington said the view was that deals were "nice, but not enough."
> 
> "They want Vietnam to bring some ideas about how to tackle the surplus on an ongoing basis, he said.
> 
> On Tuesday, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer expressed concern about the rapid growth of the deficit with Vietnam. He said it was a new challenge for the two countries and he was looking to Phuc to help address it. The deficit with Vietnam - Washington's sixth largest - reflects growing imports of Vietnamese semiconductors and other electronics products in addition to more traditional sectors such as footwear, apparel and furniture.
> 
> Vietnamese Trade Minister Tran Tuan Anh presented Lighthizer on Tuesday with suggestions to address some U.S. concerns, such as advertising on U.S. social media, electronic payment services and imports of information security and farm products, Vietnam's trade ministry said.
> 
> *Vietnam also urged the United States to remove an inspection program for catfish, speed import licenses for its fruit and make fair decisions on anti-dumping and anti-subsidy measures on Vietnamese products, the ministry said.*
> 
> Vietnam was disappointed when Trump ditched the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact, of which Hanoi was expected to be one of the main beneficiaries, and focused U.S. trade policy on reducing deficits. Phuc's meeting with Trump makes him the first Southeast Asian leader to visit the White House under the new administration.
> 
> It reflected calls, letters, diplomatic contacts and lower-level visits that started long before Trump took office in Washington, where Vietnam retains a lobbyist at $30,000 a month.



I don't think so. Food safety is something Americans and most developed countries are very keen about. Vietnamese leadership should stop complaining about it and do something about their food safety. Nothing is more dangerous than importing poisonous goods to US borders. Food safety regulations in Vietnam should be in place. Fishing should also be regulated so people don't abuse the water.

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## Viet

A little economy. During the visit, VN gives the goahead to the $2 billion 800MW wind power project of a Ireland/VN/US joint venture. Some figures are revealed on the occasion: Vietnam will install 7,500MW power generation a year thru 2030, so adding some 100,000MW into the current installed power generation capacity. 6,000MW will be of wind and 12,000MW of solar.






https://www.irishtimes.com/business...build-windfarms-in-vietnam-1.3103165?mode=amp


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## Viet

frequency said:


> I don't think so. Food safety is something Americans and most developed countries are very keen about. Vietnamese leadership should stop complaining about it and do something about their food safety. Nothing is more dangerous than importing poisonous goods to US borders. Food safety regulations in Vietnam should be in place. Fishing should also be regulated so people don't abuse the water.


You are right. Asking others for relaxing food safety rules is shortsighted. No, VN must implement strict rules on food security, which will benefit our export performance in the long run. VN exports food products worth $32b last year, little Holland more than $80b. If we achieve the level of Holland's food quality and safety, our export can reach $200b a year. We can feed the people of western Europe.

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## Viet

GOVERNMENT

*Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, US President Donald Trump hold talks*
Last update: 10:19 | 01/06/2017

_Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and US President Donald Trump held talks in Washingotn DC on May 31 (local time), discussing ways to develop bilateral ties in a more substantive manner._






President Donald Trump comes to greet PM Nguyen Xuan Phuc


Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and US President Donald Trump discussed measures to develop the two countries’ relations in a more substantive manner during their talks at the White House, Washington DC, on May 31 (local time).

After President Trump came to greet and invite PM Phuc to the White House, the Government leader of Vietnam wrote in the guest book at the Roosevelt Room and had a 15-minute private meeting with President Trump.

Later, they led the two countries’ delegations to have talks at the Cabinet Room.

President Trump welcomed the official visit to the US by PM Phuc and the high-ranking Vietnamese delegation, affirming that he attaches importance to Vietnam-US relations as well as the role of Vietnam and ASEAN in the region. He said he wants the two countries’ ties to continue developing strongly in the time ahead.

PM Phuc acknowledged the warm welcome of President Trump and the US administration, stressing that Vietnam treasures its comprehensive partnership with the US and highly values recent steps taken by the Trump administration to implement the policy towards the Asian-Pacific region.

The two leaders noted with satisfaction the extensive development of the Vietnam-US comprehensive partnership in various spheres, both bilaterally and multilaterally, and shared the view that there remain a number of opportunities for bilateral ties.

They affirmed the commitment to keeping efforts to boost Vietnam-US relations in a stable, long-term, constructive and mutual beneficiary fashion, which will not only benefit the two countries but also peace, stability, cooperation and development in Asia-Pacific and the world, on the basis of compliance with the UN Charter and international law, respect for each other’s independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and political regime.

Regarding ways to enhance the countries’ connections, they agreed to increase delegation exchanges and meetings, especially at high level, improve the effectiveness of existing cooperation mechanisms, and consider the establishment of new cooperation mechanisms that suit the expansion of bilateral ties in the new period.

PM Phuc and President Trump agreed to join efforts to boost win-win economic partnership. They emphasised that development cooperation remains a focus in the economic-trade relations between Vietnam and the US.

PM Phuc affirmed Vietnam’s resolve to press on with economic restructuring and integration into the world, and stepping up the two countries’ win-win cooperation in economy, trade and investment. He asked both sides consider the formation of a value chain from production to consumption to make use of the two economies’ complementary feature.

President Trump welcomed the settlement of some prioritised trade issues, including the opening of their markets for each other’s agricultural and industrial products and information technology products and services.

The two leaders were unanimous in effectively carrying out the Trade and Investment Framework Agreement to deal with bilateral economic problems in a constructive and fair spirit and to satisfy each side’s legitimate interests.

They also agreed to strengthen cooperation in other bilateral aspects such as humanitarian aid, war consequences settlement, people-to-people exchanges, science-technology, education-training, health care, and defence-security.

At the talks, PM Phuc and President Trump affirmed that Vietnam and the US share common interests in Asia-Pacific, including the maintenance of peace, stability, cooperation and development in the region.

The Vietnamese leader welcomes the US’s continued participation in and actively contribution to the building of regional security and economic structures. He assured that Vietnam will continue to work closely with the US, including in the upcoming APEC meetings and the East Asia Summit.

The US President noted his country continues to support ASEAN’s central role and promote the US-ASEAN strategic partnership. It also supports Vietnam to successfully organise APEC activities in 2017, adding that he looks forwards to his visit to Vietnam in November to attend the APEC Economic Leaders’ Meeting.

Additionally, the two leaders underlined the importance of the freedom of navigation in and overflight over the East Sea, affirming their support for the peaceful settlement of disputes on the basis of international law, including the full respect for diplomatic and legal processes. They applauded the progress of negotiations on an effective and meaningful Code of Conduct in the East Sea (COC).

PM Phuc and President Trump said they support the denuclearisation in the Korean Peninsula and asked all parties concerned to seriously implement relevant resolutions of the UN Security Council.

At the talks, PM Phuc, on behalf of the leaders of the Vietnamese Party and State, invited President Trump and his spouse and family to pay an official visit to Vietnam and attend the APEC Economic Leaders’ Meeting this year. President Trump accepted the invitation.

Prior to the talks, PM Phuc and President Trump hosted a meeting with the press. The two sides issued a joint statement on Vietnam-US relations after the talks.







President Donald Trump welcomes PM Nguyen Xuan Phuc at the White House








The two leaders have a 15-minute private meeting before the talks






This is the first official trip to the US by Nguyen Xuan Phuc as the PM of Vietnam and also the first time since the two countries had new leaders that a Vietnamese senior leader meets with President Trump 







The Government leader of Vietnam is on an official visit to the US from May 29 to 31







After their private talks, PM Phuc and President Trump lead the two countries' delegations to have talks 






The talks take place at the Cabinet Room







_VNA_

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## NEKONEKO

Viet said:


> No Indonesia has neither the capacity nor the will to fight for Vietnam. Only delusional dreamers believe the indo will intervene on Vietnam behalf if the Chinese turn the region into a slaughterhouse. Have you read indonesia white paper, the official defense policy? For them, the SC sea conflict does not exist. Any confrontation can be ruled out.
> America is no longer Vietnam's enemy. Why should we not increase our cooperation with them? Should we stop our cooperations with France and Japan too because they are our former enemies? But for what reasons? To sastify some peaceful rise propaganda of some people, keeping our nation weak, poor and vulnerable?



Yes, but now Jakarta more cncerned about SCS.
Just like the cold war era, Indonesia will stay Neutral and if possible try to deescalate tension. Highly unlikely Indonesia will make/join any alliance, The most you can get is a good friendly relationship with trust, and respect to each other.
Non-Aligned Movement FTW BTW



Carlosa said:


> When it comes to SCS they've been trying to stay neutral and they are trying to get a lot of investment from China. I don't see Indo challenging China other than in the Natuna area. Their interests and ASEAN interests are not quite the same.


because their claim only overlap Indonesian EEZ at Natuna area,


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## Viet

jek_sperrow said:


> Yes, but now Jakarta more cncerned about SCS.
> Just like the cold war era, Indonesia will stay Neutral and if possible try to deescalate tension. Highly unlikely Indonesia will make/join any alliance, The most you can get is a good friendly relationship with trust, and respect to each other.
> Non-Aligned Movement FTW BTW
> 
> 
> because their claim only overlap Indonesian EEZ at Natuna area,


Neutrality, non alignment, respect, trust, peaceful path etc all sound good, but useless even an invitation for aggression if a much more powerful opponent waits for the best moment to attack you. If VN was in the NATO, you think the Chinese would dare to threaten us with military force? Or as you can hear the statements of Chinese posters here and there in 5 or 10 or 15 years they are ready to take back their rightful territories.

Should we wait until that happens?


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## Viet

Hanoi June 1. Receiving US Senate Committee on Military Affairs, led by Senator John McCain, the legislative body that oversees the US armed forces. Report surfaces Vietnam was asked and apparently has no objection if the US sends US aircraft carrier to Camranh bay for visit, resupply and maintenance. Remarkable, because that is the first time since end of Vietnam war, that three US aircraft carriers operate in close proximity to Vietnam. USS Carl Vinson, USS Ronald Reagan and USS Nimitz.










USS Nimitz


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## GraveDigger388

Viet said:


> Neutrality, non alignment, respect, trust, peaceful path etc all sound good, but useless even an invitation for aggression if a much more powerful opponent waits for the best moment to attack you. If VN was in the NATO, you think the Chinese would dare to threaten us with military force? Or as you can hear the statements of Chinese posters here and there in 5 or 10 or 15 years they are ready to take back their rightful territories.
> 
> Should we wait until that happens?


In other hand, such neutralities open more opportunities of cooperation with more countries, regardless their alignment..

Glass half full, buddy... Glass half full.


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## gtiger

Apparently the decommissioned USCG Morganthau cutter that was transferred to Vietnam spent a few of its early years in Vietnam as part of the Operation Market Time to interdict supply routes from North to South Vietnam.

It's a full circle, and somebody on the American side apparently had a sense of humor (the ship was considered to be sent to the Philippines.)

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## Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> In other hand, such neutralities open more opportunities of cooperation with more countries, regardless their alignment..
> 
> Glass half full, buddy... Glass half full.


Sure neutrality has advantages you are right, the problem is that in most cases the reality dictates real politics. Switzerland is a neutral country. Can Germany be neutral? In theory yes, but it could lead again to a situation prior WWI and II. Indonesia can maintain neutrality, you face no existential threat. In contrast the case of Vietnam, yes.



gtiger said:


> Apparently the decommissioned USCG Morganthau cutter that was transferred to Vietnam spent a few of its early years in Vietnam as part of the Operation Market Time to interdict supply routes from North to South Vietnam.
> 
> It's a full circle, and somebody on the American side apparently had a sense of humor (the ship was considered to be sent to the Philippines.)


There is a german proverb: man sieht sich immer zweimal im Leben (you always meet twice). US senator John McCain is currently for a visit in Vietnam. He once served as fighter pilot during Vietnam war. During a bombing campaign over Hanoi, his plane was shot down by north Vietnamese air defense. McCain was heavily wounded, spending more than 5 years in prison as POW, trying to kill himself twice. Today he is one of most vocal supporters for US/VN normalization.


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## Viet

Confirmed. Donald Trump will visit Vietnam in November.






Helicopter carrier Izumo (together with US fast transport vessel USNS Fall River) at Cam Ranh Bay on May 20. Like the United States, Japan government will likely ask Vietnam for more access to the strategic bay to Japanese warships, when Phuc pays a visit to Japan this weekend.

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## Viet

Phuc visits the submarine fleet recently. An interesting analysis of a certain country tries to predict how Vietnam submarines would respond in time of crisis: the Kilos armed with Mach-3 Kalibr cruise missiles would cut off the sea lanes between the two big oceans in the Strait of Malacca, bringing the entire sea traffic to a standstill. 

To the author: unfortunately there is a "little" disadvantage of the Kilo: the range is limited to 300km, because the Russians refused to deliver the longer Kalibr version. Otherwise the Kilo can strike a target 2,500km away.

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## ckf

Carlosa said:


> Da Nang is a good place to retire in Vietnam, many foreigners living there now including myself, but still, have to go there and spend some time to really feel the place. Cebu in PH is not too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> That is precisely the way it is in Da Nang, they are all corrupted as it is the norm in Vietnam, but they have developed Da Nang into the most efficient and best administered city in Vietnam and the most livable. Its worth a visit mate.


I just visited last year for a month and half, beautiful city and love the Monkey moutains. Vietnamese are hard people to live along with though...scars of war is deeply etched into the society. Most people are angels, but some are completely cold, you could never tell who is who. Cuisine wise, Da Nang and Hue is as good if not better than Hanoi and HCM. "Bonpas", best bakery/coffee shop in Asia.

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## Viet

*Japan*

Phuc is a man in hurry. After America trip, he is departing for Japan on Sunday. Meetings with the emperor of Japan and the government of Japan are expected. Vietnam is expected to sign a series of agreements with Japan, business deals worth of billions of dollars, delivery of patrol ships (no missile destroyer yet unfortunately). One of them can see Vietnam to joint cooperate with Japan in space. Japan develops an own version of GPS. Japanese startup company Interstellar that offers satellite services says will start business in Vietnam this month.

Good stuff 







http://asia.nikkei.com/magazine/201...-space-startups-see-promise-in-Southeast-Asia


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## Carlosa

ckf said:


> I just visited last year for a month and half, beautiful city and love the Monkey moutains. Vietnamese are hard people to live along with though...scars of war is deeply etched into the society. Most people are angels, but some are completely cold, you could never tell who is who. Cuisine wise, Da Nang and Hue is as good if not better than Hanoi and HCM. "Bonpas", best bakery/coffee shop in Asia.



Very true in many ways, typical Vietnamese people are quite nice and kind, but there are plenty of bad ruthless people and they prey on whoever is at hand. Lots of tricky people everywhere trying to rip you off and they are very visible to tourists such as tricky taxi drivers with fixed meters, tricky restaurants that overcharge you (that's why you always see Vietnamese people carefully checking the bill), tricky hotels where you book the room at one price but they charge you a higher price when you check out or don't let you leave, tricky tour agents that sell you one thing, but deliver a lower value than promised, etc, etc, etc, the list goes on. Bad people are always more visible and more noticeable than good people.

The other day, while walking, a tourist, a girl from Hong Kong stopped me to ask me some directions, we talked a little for a while and she told me what happened to her that morning: She was in Hoi An and at one point she asked a shop if she could use the toilet and asked how much, the shop owner, a woman, said: sure, its free. After using the toilet and as she was leaving, the woman stopped her and said: 100.000 vnd (5 usd) and didn't let her leave until she paid.

People like that, although a minority, ruin the reputation of Vietnam and Vietnamese people and there are many like that. It also doesn't help that lots of people in the service sector are rude and impolite and have no idea about proper customer service. There is a reason why a large proportion of tourist that have been in Vietnam say that they will never, ever come back to Vietnam. Vietnam has a lot to learn in those areas from Thailand.

This type of situation will slowly change, but it takes time; part of the problem is that tricky people / establishments get away with an small fine so they keep behaving the same way.



ckf said:


> "Bonpas", best bakery/coffee shop in Asia.



Oh no, there are much better places than bonpas in Danang.

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## Viet

ckf said:


> I just visited last year for a month and half, beautiful city and love the Monkey moutains. Vietnamese are hard people to live along with though...scars of war is deeply etched into the society. Most people are angels, but some are completely cold, you could never tell who is who. Cuisine wise, Da Nang and Hue is as good if not better than Hanoi and HCM. "Bonpas", best bakery/coffee shop in Asia.





Carlosa said:


> Very true in many ways, typical Vietnamese people are quite nice and kind, but there are plenty of bad ruthless people and they prey on whoever is at hand. Lots of tricky people everywhere trying to rip you off and they are very visible to tourists such as tricky taxi drivers with fixed meters, tricky restaurants that overcharge you (that's why you always see Vietnamese people carefully checking the bill), tricky hotels where you book the room at one price but they charge you a higher price when you check out or don't let you leave, tricky tour agents that sell you one thing, but deliver a lower value than promised, etc, etc, etc, the list goes on. Bad people are always more visible and more noticeable than good people.
> 
> The other day, while walking, a tourist, a girl from Hong Kong stopped me to ask me some directions, we talked a little for a while and she told me what happened to her that morning: She was in Hoi An and at one point she asked a shop if she could use the toilet and asked how much, the shop owner, a woman, said: sure, its free. After using the toilet and as she was leaving, the woman stopped her and said: 100.000 vnd (5 usd) and didn't let her leave until she paid.
> 
> People like that, although a minority, ruin the reputation of Vietnam and Vietnamese people and there are many like that. It also doesn't help that lots of people in the service sector are rude and impolite and have no idea about proper customer service. There is a reason why a large proportion of tourist that have been in Vietnam say that they will never, ever come back to Vietnam. Vietnam has a lot to learn in those areas from Thailand.
> 
> This type of situation will slowly change, but it takes time; part of the problem is that tricky people / establishments get away with an small fine so they keep behaving the same way.
> 
> Oh no, there are much better places than bonpas in Danang.


Vietnam as country and as people had endured terrible hardships thru decades of wars, sanctions and economic mismanagement. The people fought every day for survival, like a hungry animal in the jungle looks for food, little of good behavior. My grandmother told me of terrible stories in times of French and Japanese occupation. Now peace returns and life is better now, but the behavior remains at many people. In many cases they do bad things, extracting money from other people, although they don't need it for survival. What I say is not an excuse but offer a possible explanation.

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## Viet

a S300 surface to air missile battery somewhere in Vietnam. Unlike other S300 operators, VN deploys the powerful 96L6E acquisition radar, that usually comes with S400. Russia media report Vietnam plans live fire exercise simulating enemy aerial attacks.






The modernization of the Navy comes at snail speed (too little funds) but some results can be seen.






This boat is small but nice. FPSV 41P class, 41m long, versatile aluminium-hulled, low fuel consumption, manufactured by Piriou Vietnam shipyard, ready to be delivered to the customer in Saudi Arabia (Jana Marine). The transport vessel has a 50-tonne deck load capacity. Good enough to supply goods to our islands in the SC sea.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Vietnam as country and as people had endured terrible hardships thru decades of wars, sanctions and economic mismanagement. The people fought every day for survival, like a hungry animal in the jungle looks for food, little of good behavior. My grandmother told me of terrible stories in times of French and Japanese occupation. Now peace returns and life is better now, but the behavior remains at many people. In many cases they do bad things, extracting money from other people, although they don't need it for survival. What I say is not an excuse but offer a possible explanation.



I know, most people understand that. It will take time to change that situation and a lot also has to do with the government enforcing the laws and rules, something that they are not doing much of unless there is some benefit to them. 

Example: People pee in the streets all the time, there are rules and fines against that, but when was the last time that someone got a fine for doing that or when was the last time that a policeman bother to deal with the issue? A few months ago, it was big news in all the newspapers that 3 men had been fined in Hanoi for peeing in the street, but that was it, nothing after that.

People litter in the street like crazy, they act like if their mama is walking behind them to collect the stuff, but where are the the TV ads, etc from the government trying to educate people to not do that? In my own experience, I had seen people that I know doing that, I talked to them and they don't do it anymore which shows that its a matter of education and public awareness. The government has a big responsibility on this situation. If they don't enforce the laws, don't bother to act when they see these things and they don't educate the people on these matters............ then people continue to do what they've been doing and what they see everybody else doing, Its that simple

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I know, most people understand that. It will take time to change that situation and a lot also has to do with the government enforcing the laws and rules, something that they are not doing much of unless there is some benefit to them.
> 
> Example: People pee in the streets all the time, there are rules and fines against that, but when was the last time that someone got a fine for doing that or when was the last time that a policeman bother to deal with the issue? A few months ago, it was big news in all the newspapers that 3 men had been fined in Hanoi for peeing in the street, but that was it, nothing after that.
> 
> People litter in the street like crazy, they act like if their mama is walking behind them to collect the stuff, but where are the the TV ads, etc from the government trying to educate people to not do that? In my own experience, I had seen people that I know doing that, I talked to them and they don't do it anymore which shows that its a matter of education and public awareness. The government has a big responsibility on this situation. If they don't enforce the laws, don't bother to act when they see these things and they don't educate the people on these matters............ then people continue to do what they've been doing and what they see everybody else doing, Its that simple


we can fill a shelf with books about the bad behaviors of the Vietnamese people...ha ha ha. Although I am a bit optimistic that thing will improve bit by bit with the time to come. Maybe a generation undertaking. It may not be hopeless as it is seen.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> we can fill a shelf with books about the bad behaviors of the Vietnamese people...ha ha ha. Although I am a bit optimistic that thing will improve bit by bit with the time to come. Maybe a generation undertaking. It may not be hopeless as it is seen.



Times fixes everything...........


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Times fixes everything...........


Yes VN needs more time. By the current trajectory, time will bring prosperity to the people. With prosperity comes better education, better behavior. There is a correlation between prosperity, education and bad behavior. It may sound arrogant when I say the 6 million Viet kieu are generally richer hence behave better than those at home.

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## ckf

I have many Vietnamese friends in Canada and what I find fascinating is attitude of some Vietnamese which I was warned...so anti-chinese and other asians bordering on hate mix in with bigoted nationalism. I was in HCM airport, me and my wife use Canadian passport and 3 young Chinese National were all flying to Bangkok. The Chinese were told to book return flights because they will not be allowed to be on the flights due to Thai customs control(totally false). I also have not booked any flights because I didn't know how long I was going to be in Thailand. They denied the Chinese boarding passes unless they book a flight out of Bangkok which they did, and give me one without asking this. Viets also constantly lie about their history which I didn't expect but is fascinating because everywhere we went to in Hanoi and Hue, we see historical buidings and records in Chinese. But tour guide constantly tell foreigner completely different translation of their history which is oddly enough all written in Chinese which they can't even read except by Viet translation instituted by the French I guess. I understand Vietnam needs to establish its own identity, but to build a nation on hate eventually will end very badly.

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## Carlosa

ckf said:


> I have many Vietnamese friends in Canada and what I find fascinating is attitude of some Vietnamese which I was warned...so anti-chinese and other asians bordering on hate mix in with bigoted nationalism. I was in HCM airport, me and my wife use Canadian passport and 3 young Chinese National were all flying to Bangkok. The Chinese were told to book return flights because they will not be allowed to be on the flights due to Thai customs control(totally false). I also have not booked any flights because I didn't know how long I was going to be in Thailand. They denied the Chinese boarding passes unless they book a flight out of Bangkok which they did, and give me one without asking this. Viets also constantly lie about their history which I didn't expect but is fascinating because everywhere we went to in Hanoi and Hue, we see historical buidings and records in Chinese. But tour guide constantly tell foreigner completely different translation of their history which is oddly enough all written in Chinese which they can't even read except by Viet translation instituted by the French I guess. I understand Vietnam needs to establish its own identity, but to build a nation on hate eventually will end very badly.



I can't say for sure since I haven't seen those specific historical records that you mentioned, but I think what you call chinese language is actually the old Vietnamese writing system, which is not chinese, but actually Vietnamese, but it looks similar to chinese. The current writing system was imposed by the French, so its fairly recent.

Yes, most Vietnamese hate chinese, but considering the 1000 year of chinese domination and the constant issues such us in the south china sea right now, Its really understandable. China has been their traditional enemy throughout their history.

Here in Danang, restaurants usually have a menu in chinese with prices that are double, they love to overcharge the chinese tourists.


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## ckf

Carlosa said:


> I can't say for sure since I haven't seen those specific historical records that you mentioned, but I think what you call chinese language is actually the old Vietnamese writing system, which is not chinese, but actually Vietnamese, but it looks similar to chinese. The current writing system was imposed by the French, so its fairly recent.
> 
> Yes, most Vietnamese hate chinese, but considering the 1000 year of chinese domination and the constant issues such us in the south china sea right now, Its really understandable. China has been their traditional enemy throughout their history.
> 
> Here in Danang, restaurants usually have a menu in chinese with prices that are double, they love to overcharge the chinese tourists.


Stop insisting on hate propelled by the French, and now you. Vietnam is complicated, but much of its history is completely fabricated by the French and Americans as hate between Chinese and Viets....Hoi An, existed in peace for hundreds of years before the French arrived so the argument is ridiculous. People should just get along, spain has its own problems with people of the Catalans.

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## Carlosa

ckf said:


> Stop insisting on hate propelled by the French, and now you. Vietnam is complicated, but much of its history is completely fabricated by the French and Americans as hate between Chinese and Viets....Hoi An, existed in peace for hundreds of years before the French arrived so the argument is ridiculous. People should just get along, spain has its own problems with people of the Catalans.



Who said hate propelled by the French? I said that the new writing system was imposed by the French, they did away with the old vietnamese writing system and replaced it with the current one. How you change that to hate propelled by the French?

I'm not promoting hate, but rather explaining why which is different. You seem to have a rather simplistic, single minded view of Vietnam.


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## ckf

Carlosa said:


> Yes, most Vietnamese hate chinese, but considering the 1000 year of chinese domination and the constant issues such us in the south china sea right now, Its really understandable. China has been their traditional enemy throughout their history.


By generalizing most people hate each other you're promoting hate. Were you alive for a 1000 years and live in Vietnam and see this hate for a 1000 years. Most Vietnames I meet don't hate...a few bad apples but most people are incredibly generous and they have my love for the country. As for the Bit**ch, white trash who loves going to Vietnam thinking they are the sugar daddies, it's just fu*)king annoying. Like all the history books telling the world Christopher Columbus discovered America, Native were in America long before and nothing to discover. Genocide of Natives is written as forceful resettlement. I am just confused as to who's doing the hating and who has a simplistic view of the world.

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## xiao qi

ckf said:


> By generalizing most people hate each other you're promoting hate. Were you alive for a 1000 years and live in Vietnam and see this hate for a 1000 years. Most Vietnames I meet don't hate...a few bad apples but most people are incredibly generous and they have my love for the country. As for the Bit**ch, white trash who loves going to Vietnam thinking they are the sugar daddies, it's just fu*)king annoying. Like all the history books telling the world Christopher Columbus discovered America, Native were in America long before and nothing to discover. Genocide of Natives is written as forceful resettlement. I am just confused as to who's doing the hating and who has a simplistic view of the world.



1000 years is too dim and far distance. I doubt any Vietnamese could hate Chinese for such reason @Carlosa
I had my father, two uncles, one uncle in law fought against Chinese in the war 1979. So interesting when I never heard about the hatred toward Chinese from them. Yes, they maybe dont like Chinese, are careful with Chinese tricks on business but so strange, They dont hate them. You maybe dont believe but it is the true . Young Vietnamese said they hate Chinese. The major factor as my thinking is SCS because they only said that when Chinese waves the disputed SCS from 2008.
About the Sino Vietnam War, Because the Vietnamese and Chinese goverment agreed the solution in Chengdu 1991. Follow the issues, Chinese and Vietnamese tried to normalize ( dont remind incident on textbook, notebook, the propaganda, news..) and dont want to exacerbate the incident which broke the relation . Almost Vietnamese young didnt know this war until Chinese violated Vietnamese EEZ and increase their activities in South China Sea.

if we hate chinese by war i think we have more reasons to hate American than. , the relation between Vietnamese and American now thanks by the Chinese's support.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> 1000 years is too dim and far distance. I doubt any Vietnamese could hate Chinese for such reason @Carlosa
> I had my father, two uncles, one uncle in law against fought Chinese in the war 1979. So interesting when I never heard about the hatred toward Chinese from them. Yes, they maybe dont like Chinese, are careful with Chinese tricks on business but so strange, They dont hate them. You maybe dont believe but it is the true . Young Vietnamese said they hate Chinese. The major factor as my thinking is SCS because they only said that when Chinese waves the disputed SCS from 2008.
> About the Sino Vietnam War, Because the Vietnamese and Chinese goverment agreed the solution in Chengdu 1991. Follow the issues, Chinese and Vietnamese tried to normalize ( dont remind incident on textbook, notebook, the propaganda, news..) and dont want to exacerbate the incident which broke the relation . Almost Vietnamese young didnt know this war until Chinese violated Vietnamese EEZ and increase their activities in South China Sea.
> 
> if we hate chinese by war i think we have more reasons to hate American than. , the relation between Vietnamese and American now thanks by the Chinese's support.



That's ok, I only know about the Vietnamese people of today and when I talked to them, most of them say they hate chinese and they give the reasons that I mentioned, so I was explaining that. Its better if there is less hate, that's for sure.



ckf said:


> By generalizing most people hate each other you're promoting hate. Were you alive for a 1000 years and live in Vietnam and see this hate for a 1000 years. Most Vietnames I meet don't hate...a few bad apples but most people are incredibly generous and they have my love for the country. As for the Bit**ch, white trash who loves going to Vietnam thinking they are the sugar daddies, it's just fu*)king annoying. Like all the history books telling the world Christopher Columbus discovered America, Native were in America long before and nothing to discover. Genocide of Natives is written as forceful resettlement. I am just confused as to who's doing the hating and who has a simplistic view of the world.



Hey, aren't you the one that said: "I understand Vietnam needs to establish its own identity, *but to build a nation on hate* eventually will end very badly."

I guess that's not promoting hate according to what you said to me? Watch your own words before accusing others man.

And you also said: "tour guide constantly tell foreigner completely different translation of their history which is oddly enough all written in Chinese which they can't even read except by Viet translation instituted by the French I guess." You also said: "Vietnam is complicated, but *much of *i*ts history is completely fabricated by the French and Americans*"

So Vietnamese don't know their history, really? They only known their history from the French and of course they just followed whatever the French told them right? And Vietnamese are not capable of translating chinese right? When you say things like that, you show that you don't have a clue about Vietnam.


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## sinait

Carlosa said:


> I can't say for sure since I haven't seen those specific historical records that you mentioned, but I think what you call chinese language is actually the old Vietnamese writing system, *which is not Chinese*, but actually Vietnamese, but it looks similar to chinese. The current writing system was imposed by the French, so its fairly recent.


The Vietnamese use Chinese characters with some localization, as is the case in Hong Kong. How can they not be influenced if they are a colony of China for 1000 years.


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## Carlosa

sinait said:


> The Vietnamese use Chinese characters with some localization, as is the case in Hong Kong. How can they not be influenced if they are a colony of China for 1000 years.



Of course they were influenced by China and by far, but to say that they don't know their history or that they only know their history from French translations or that much of their history was fabricated by the French and Americans is totally wrong.


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## sinait

Viet said:


> Yes VN needs more time. By the current trajectory, time will bring prosperity to the people. With prosperity comes better education, better behavior. There is a correlation between prosperity, education and bad behavior. It may sound arrogant when I say the 6 million Viet kieu are generally richer hence behave better than those at home.


You are right, but civic education is more important rather than academic education. 
Singapore had its phase of being poor and dirty as well but never to the degree in India. And by the way, most of the filth are done by the Singapore Indians. They chew betel(not sure) and spit out a red substance everywhere. They drink cheap toddy(coconut alcohol) and urine where they find convenient. Its also horrific how they beat their wives with sticks after being drunk with toddy which the Government sell at special price to the Indians. 

That's all in the past. It will take at least 30 to 40 years and most probably more to change habits. Most of the indiscriminate throwing of rubbish are done by rural folks adjusting to city life. About urinating, its similar in the Philippines, but cannot just blame the people when there are not enough public toilets. Singapore have clean and comfortable toilets everywhere, but still have isolated cases of open defecation because most probably they are in an emergency and couldn't locate the toilet in an unfamiliar place. Toilets are cleaner also due to less people smoking and clogging the urinals with cigarette butts.
Singapore also have the benefit of having an army of foreign labor cleaning after us, haha.
.


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## sinait

Carlosa said:


> Of course they were influenced by China and by far, but to say that they don't know their history or that they only know their history from French translations or that much of their history was fabricated by the French and Americans is totally wrong.


I am not surprised if a lot of their young only know their history from French translations as history is not being as emphasized as maths, science and language. Its nearly the same thing in Singapore where we learn that little history mostly from the British perspective. I study Electronics and Engineering Science in school instead of History and Geography because there is a perception that those are for the backward classes. On hindsight, it is not the best choice. 
Our education is more like economic training. Most of us are preoccupied with studies, jobs and careers, and seldom spent time to delve deeper into our history until we have free time, usually after retirement and quite old.
.


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## AViet

sinait said:


> I am not surprised if a lot of their young only know their history from French translations as history is not being as emphasized as maths, science and language. Its nearly the same thing in Singapore where we learn that little history mostly from the British perspective. I study Electronics and Engineering Science in school instead of History and Geography because there is a perception that those are for the backward classes. On hindsight, it is not the best choice.
> Our education is more like economic training. Most of us are preoccupied with studies, jobs and careers, and seldom spent time to delve deeper into our history until we have free time, usually after retirement and quite old.
> .



I do not understand what you mean by "French translation". Vietnamese history records tradition are far more advanced than France or any Western countries. We do not need to rely on France or any Western sources for our history.

The school textbooks for the period from ancient to before French colonization are basically based on the works of Tran Trong Kim (Viet Nam Su Luoc, or Brief History of Vietnam), which was again based on various Vietnamese and Chinese sources.

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## ckf

sinait said:


> I am not surprised if a lot of their young only know their history from French translations as history is not being as emphasized as maths, science and language. Its nearly the same thing in Singapore where we learn that little history mostly from the British perspective. I study Electronics and Engineering Science in school instead of History and Geography because there is a perception that those are for the backward classes. On hindsight, it is not the best choice.
> Our education is more like economic training. Most of us are preoccupied with studies, jobs and careers, and seldom spent time to delve deeper into our history until we have free time, usually after retirement and quite old.
> .


Carlosa, if you are Viet and you argue with me about perspective of history, I will take it like a man and say it's my perspective and its harsh and judgemental. My argument is exactly what I wrote, Vietnamese today you talk to cannot read historical text and can only go by what their gov't translate for them. Based on what I hear, I hear a lot of hate which you seems vehemently like to argue for. Then let me ask you, how did Dalai Lama, a religious dictator win Nobel Peace Prize from the Danes. God, maybe Dalai should be given Spanish citizenship and see how you will like your new ruler. That's how the French crap on history of Vietnam which you honky wankers like to view hate between two civilizations based on your conversations apparently.


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## TenLua

ckf said:


> Carlosa, if you are Viet and you argue with me about perspective of history, I will take it like a man and say it's my perspective and its harsh and judgemental. My argument is exactly what I wrote, Vietnamese today you talk to cannot read historical text and can only go by what their gov't translate for them. Based on what I hear, I hear a lot of hate which you seems vehemently like to argue for. Then let me ask you, how did Dalai Lama, a religious dictator win Nobel Peace Prize from the Danes. God, maybe Dalai should be given Spanish citizenship and see how you will like your new ruler. That's how the French crap on history of Vietnam which you honky wankers like to view hate between two civilizations based on your conversations apparently.



Any historical texts that are over 1k years old all need to be decipher by scholars. Wherever you're originally from, you too cannot read those historical texts. Canadian history, or more to the point, the portion of land that is now known as Canada have its own history and you cannot decipher its historical texts. It's like saying modern day Egyptians cannot decipher hieroglyphics so therefore their version of history is null and void. 

Further, I doubt you know one Vietnamese person in real life. It is highly unlikely given your clear and obvious animosity against us. 

Where are you from originally or are you too afraid to even reveal that?

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## Carlosa

ckf said:


> Carlosa, if you are Viet and you argue with me about perspective of history, I will take it like a man and say it's my perspective and its harsh and judgemental. My argument is exactly what I wrote, Vietnamese today you talk to cannot read historical text and can only go by what their gov't translate for them. Based on what I hear, I hear a lot of hate which you seems vehemently like to argue for. Then let me ask you, how did Dalai Lama, a religious dictator win Nobel Peace Prize from the Danes. God, maybe Dalai should be given Spanish citizenship and see how you will like your new ruler. That's how the French crap on history of Vietnam which you honky wankers like to view hate between two civilizations based on your conversations apparently.



I'm not a Viet and there are many issues here that would be much better answered by the Viet members, but as living in Vietnam I know a few things and to pretend to deny that lots of Viet people don't like / hate chinese only shows a shallow understanding of Vietnam.

Its very unusual to talk with a Viet, the subject of China comes out and not immediately hear them say "I don't like or hate china / chinese, chinese are very bad", etc, etc. You are probably ethnic chinese so Viet people avoid saying those things to your face, but they tell me that all the time. And to portray me as promoter of hate just because I explained why Viets hate chinese, even that I didn't say anything that promotes that hate also tells me that you are an ethnic chinese that is very sensitive about discrimination probably because of your own experience in Canada where for many people, whether you have a Canadian passport or not, they still see you as a chinese. I've seen lots of people like you when living in USA, always crying discrimination, bigotry, etc at the slightest sign of anything that remotely hurts their sense of identity. Hypersensitive to say the least.

I also know enough about Vietnamese to know that they know their history and would not fall for French fabrications, are you forgetting that they expelled the French and the colonial period was nothing but a blimp in their history.

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## ckf

TenLua said:


> Any historical texts that are over 1k years old all need to be decipher by scholars. Wherever you're originally from, you too cannot read those historical texts. Canadian history, or more to the point, the portion of land that is now known as Canada have its own history and you cannot decipher its historical texts. It's like saying modern day Egyptians cannot decipher hieroglyphics so therefore their version of history is null and void.
> 
> Further, I doubt you know one Vietnamese person in real life. It is highly unlikely given your clear and obvious animosity against us.
> 
> Where are you from originally or are you too afraid to even reveal that?


You really need to hit the books, being ignorant is no excuse. Now go have some pho, and peace.

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## Carlosa

sinait said:


> The Vietnamese use Chinese characters with some localization, as is the case in Hong Kong. How can they not be influenced if they are a colony of China for 1000 years.



Viet members can say better but I think is not that simple, this is what I read:

"Sometime during the 10th century the Vietnamese adapted the Chinese script to write their own language and called their script 'Chữ-nôm' (southern script). The earliest known example of writing in the Chữ-nôm script, an inscription on a stele at the Bao An Pagoda in Yen Lang, Vinh Phu province, dates from 1209 AD (Ly Dynasty). It was during the Tarn Dynasty (late 13th century) that the script was systematized and started to be used in literature."

*Notable features*

Chữ-nôm uses a mixture of standard Chinese characters and new characters invented specifically for writing Vietnamese.
When adapting the Chinese characters, the inventors of Chữ-nôm borrowed many Chinese words and adapted that pronunciations to Vietnamese phonology. As a result of this borrowing, there are often two words for the same thing - a Sino-Vietnamese one and the original Vietnamese one, as can be seen below.
The new characters combine a character which gives the meaning and another which hints at the Vietnamese pronunciation.


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## sinait

ckf said:


> You really need to hit the books, being ignorant is no excuse. I minor in Canadian history, so you shouldn't go there. I live in two cities with a lot of Cantonese speaking Viets and my favorite Vietnamese dish is Banh canh ca loc in Danang. My mom side has Chinese "Nguyen" which in Vietnam is quite different since its amalgamation of different families with Chinese ties. I mainly hangout with Cantonese speaking viets, so I am biased I guess. This is my last post here because this wasn't what I wanted to represent and everybody is taking this out of context.


I was a bit surprised also when I first hear Vietnamese here in Singapore speak Cantonese. 
.


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## xiao qi

sinait said:


> I was a bit surprised also when I first hear Vietnamese here in Singapore speak Cantonese.
> .


They are maybe Chinese - Vietnamese, Vietnamese origin people dont understand Chinese language except they were educated



Carlosa said:


> Viet members can say better but I think is not that simple, this is what I read:
> 
> "Sometime during the 10th century the Vietnamese adapted the Chinese script to write their own language and called their script 'Chữ-nôm' (southern script). The earliest known example of writing in the Chữ-nôm script, an inscription on a stele at the Bao An Pagoda in Yen Lang, Vinh Phu province, dates from 1209 AD (Ly Dynasty). It was during the Tarn Dynasty (late 13th century) that the script was systematized and started to be used in literature."
> 
> *Notable features*
> 
> Chữ-nôm uses a mixture of standard Chinese characters and new characters invented specifically for writing Vietnamese.
> When adapting the Chinese characters, the inventors of Chữ-nôm borrowed many Chinese words and adapted that pronunciations to Vietnamese phonology. As a result of this borrowing, there are often two words for the same thing - a Sino-Vietnamese one and the original Vietnamese one, as can be seen below.
> The new characters combine a character which gives the meaning and another which hints at the Vietnamese pronunciation.



Right, Chu Nom is same as Japanese language. Chinese now, Im not sure they can understand it fully when they read chu nom

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## sinait

Carlosa said:


> Viet members can say better but I think is not that simple, this is what I read:
> 
> "Sometime during the 10th century the Vietnamese adapted the Chinese script to write their own language and called their script 'Chữ-nôm' (southern script). The earliest known example of writing in the Chữ-nôm script, an inscription on a stele at the Bao An Pagoda in Yen Lang, Vinh Phu province, dates from 1209 AD (Ly Dynasty). It was during the Tarn Dynasty (late 13th century) that the script was systematized and started to be used in literature."
> 
> *Notable features*
> 
> Chữ-nôm uses a mixture of standard Chinese characters and new characters invented specifically for writing Vietnamese.
> When adapting the Chinese characters, the inventors of Chữ-nôm borrowed many Chinese words and adapted that pronunciations to Vietnamese phonology. As a result of this borrowing, there are often two words for the same thing - a Sino-Vietnamese one and the original Vietnamese one, as can be seen below.
> The new characters combine a character which gives the meaning and another which hints at the Vietnamese pronunciation.


I agree, you should just leave it to Viet members.
It all started from Chinese characters with some localization later on. Similarly there are Chinese words that are only used in Hong Kong and Taiwan. In Chinese, it is allowed to add or subtract a radical from a character or combine characters to form a new character word. That is why some Chinese word processors have a character composition feature to compose characters not found in Unicode. For example, they may want to add "water", "wood" or "fire" to an existing character.
I think we better leave this to the experts.
.

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## Carlosa

sinait said:


> I was a bit surprised also when I first hear Vietnamese here in Singapore speak Cantonese.
> .



As I understand, many Vietnamese of chinese origin were living in Vietnam and after the 1979 war, many were expelled from Vietnam. Typical Vietnamese would not be speaking cantonese unless they are of chinese origin.


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## sinait

xiao qi said:


> They are maybe Chinese - Vietnamese, Vietnamese origin people dont understand Chinese language except they were educated
> 
> Right, Chu Nom is same as Japanese language. Chinese now, Im not sure they can understand it fully when they read chu nom


Generally Chinese can understand some Japanese by reading Kanji, most mean the same thing. I would think it is the same with Chu Nom.
.


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## TenLua

ckf said:


> You really need to hit the books, being ignorant is no excuse. I minor in Canadian history, so you shouldn't go there. I live in two cities with a lot of Cantonese speaking Viets and my favorite Vietnamese dish is Banh canh ca loc in Danang. My mom side has Chinese "Nguyen" which in Vietnam is quite different since its amalgamation of different families with Chinese ties. I mainly hangout with Cantonese speaking viets, so I am biased I guess. This is my last post here because this wasn't what I wanted to represent and everybody is taking this out of context.



Ahhh so you major in Canadian ( because Canada has such an oh so extensive history stretching back to ohh....5 years? LOL) history, so you must be able to read, write and speak the language of the Inuit people?

Please, do demonstrate to us your awesomeness. Teach us some Inuit ancient scriptures because if it's coming form you, it must be law. LOLOL

A Canadian history major is telling Vietnamese people their version of history is incorrect....I had no idea Canadian history covered so many land masses. Canadian history must be soooo big that it somehow overlapped with ancient Vietnam and that is why you know soooo much about Vietnamese history am I right? I mean, if you don't agree with it, it must be wrong is that correct? LOLOL

Tell me where you're from oh great keepers of Vietnamese history, tell me all about how the most correct and purest form of Vietnamese history was handed to you from the Gods. tell us how studying Canadian history made you the foremost scholar on Vietnamese history. i await your magnificence.

EDIT: So because you ate a bowl of banh canh ca loc, that gave you a doctorate in Vietnamese history? LMAO

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## xiao qi

ckf said:


> Carlosa, if you are Viet and you argue with me about perspective of history, I will take it like a man and say it's my perspective and its harsh and judgemental. My argument is exactly what I wrote, Vietnamese today you talk to cannot read historical text and can only go by what their gov't translate for them. Based on what I hear, I hear a lot of hate which you seems vehemently like to argue for. Then let me ask you, how did Dalai Lama, a religious dictator win Nobel Peace Prize from the Danes. God, maybe Dalai should be given Spanish citizenship and see how you will like your new ruler. That's how the French crap on history of Vietnam which you honky wankers like to view hate between two civilizations based on your conversations apparently.


Vietnamese goverment tried to hide some bad things about Vietnam history like Expansion of the South progress, or a Vietnamese legendary general Trần Hưng Đạo raped his girlfriend to take his girl away the other marriage. But the history is history, noone could prevent. The Vietnamese like me know that, so your knowledge about Vietnam is misconception

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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> Vietnamese goverment tried to hide some bad things about Vietnam history like Expansion of the South progress, or a Vietnamese legendary general Trần Hưng Đạo raped his girlfriend to take his girl away the other marriage. But the history is history, noone could prevent. The Vietnamese like me know that, so your knowledge about Vietnam is misconception




Oh really? Let me cross reference this with kfc since he's the keeper of Vietnamese history, he knows ALL about it.

Oi kfc, what say you? Can you tell me where in Canadian history does it say this? LOL

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> Ahhh so you major in Canadian ( because Canada has such an oh so extensive history stretching back to ohh....5 years? LOL) history, so you must be able to read, write and speak the language of the Inuit people?
> 
> Please, do demonstrate to us your awesomeness. Teach us some Inuit ancient scriptures because if it's coming form you, it must be law. LOLOL
> 
> A Canadian history major is telling Vietnamese people their version of history is incorrect....I had no idea Canadian history covered so many land masses. Canadian history must be soooo big that it somehow overlapped with ancient Vietnam and that is why you know soooo much about Vietnamese history am I right? I mean, if you don't agree with it, it must be wrong is that correct? LOLOL
> 
> Tell me where you're from oh great keepers of Vietnamese history, tell me all about how the most correct and purest form of Vietnamese history was handed to you from the Gods. tell us how studying Canadian history made you the foremost scholar on Vietnamese history. i await your magnificence.
> 
> EDIT: So because you ate a bowl of banh canh ca loc, that gave you a doctorate in Vietnamese history? LMAO



Not just banh canh ca loc, he spent 1.5 months in Danang and hangs out with overseas Viets of chinese origin, so he's an expert on Vietnam and Vietnamese history now. Wow, awesome!!!! Maybe he can also teach me about Spanish history.

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> Not just banh canh ca loc, he spent 1.5 months in Danang and hangs out with overseas Viets of chinese origin, so he's an expert on Vietnam and Vietnamese history now. Wow, awesome!!!! Maybe he can also teach me about Spanish history.



A whole 1.5 months!!??!! My god, we must bow to him for we are not worthy of his greatness. Teach us oh great kfc, teach us for we know not what our scholars say.

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> A whole 1.5 months!!??!! My god, we must bow to him for we are not worthy of his greatness. Teach us oh great kfc, teach us for we know not what our scholars say.



A whole 1.5 months eating banh canh ca loc is not a little thing man, the DNA of the ca loc fish includes all the hidden knowledge of Vietnamese history, so after eating it for 1.5 months, you get a massive infusion of that knowledge and you become enlightened on Vietnamese history, imagine what an accomplish that is, not anybody can do it, awesome!!!!

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> A whole 1.5 months eating banh canh ca loc is not a little thing man, the DNA of the ca loc fish includes all the hidden knowledge of Vietnamese history, so after eating it for 1.5 months, you get a massive infusion of that knowledge and you become enlightened on Vietnamese history, imagine what an accomplish that is, not anybody can do it, awesome!!!!



LOLOLOLOOLOL

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## gambit

TenLua said:


> EDIT: So because you ate a bowl of banh canh ca loc, that gave you a doctorate in Vietnamese history? LMAO


Ahhh...No, that is only a B.A. Hủ Tiếu is the Ph.D.

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## Carlosa

Some pics of the Vietnamese occupied Spratly Islands, many beautiful things there:

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## ckf

gambit said:


> Ahhh...No, that is only a B.A. Hủ Tiếu is the Ph.D.





sinait said:


> I agree, you should just leave it to Viet members.
> It all started from Chinese characters with some localization later on. Similarly there are Chinese words that are only used in Hong Kong and Taiwan. In Chinese, it is allowed to add or subtract a radical from a character or combine characters to form a new character word. That is why some Chinese word processors have a character composition feature to compose characters not found in Unicode. For example, they may want to add "water", "wood" or "fire" to an existing character.
> I think we better leave this to the experts.
> .


Vietnam used traditional characters set from the text I saw, chu nom I don't know about. Too many illiterates on this forum.

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## Carlosa

ckf said:


> Vietnam used traditional characters set from the text I saw, chu nom I don't know about. Too many illiterates on this forum.



Right, talking about the Vietnamese alphabet and history and not knowing about chu nom sounds illiterate to me.


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## Viet

ckf said:


> Vietnam used traditional characters set from the text I saw, chu nom I don't know about. Too many illiterates on this forum.


Amazing discussion. Anyway here my contribution. Correct, Vietnam uses two Chinese character sets: classical alphabet (chu hoa), which was the official language and the derivative (chu nom), which was created to better reflect Vietnamese pronunciations. Imperial exam only required students to master classical Chinese history, texts and literature. Vietnamese officials were required to master both chu hoa and chu nom.

Only the best educated graduates were employed in VN foreign office as they were responsible to maintain communication channel to China.

Today Vietnamese Latin alphabet was first created by the Portuguese, further developed by Vietnamese and the French, but not widely used in the public. it became national language of Vietnam when imperial China imploded under the Qing.

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## Viva_Viet

frequency said:


> I don't think so. Food safety is something Americans and most developed countries are very keen about. Vietnamese leadership should stop complaining about it and do something about their food safety. Nothing is more dangerous than importing poisonous goods to US borders. Food safety regulations in Vietnam should be in place. Fishing should also be regulated so people don't abuse the water.


Bro, read the news carefully and know the story first,


> Vietnam also urged the United States to remove an inspection program for catfish, speed import licenses for its fruit and make fair decisions on anti-dumping and anti-subsidy measures on Vietnamese products, the ministry said.


Bsc our catfish and fruit have much cheaper prices, so US start a so called "inspection" and put anti-dumping and anti-subsidy measures on our fish and fruit making our product more expensive in US. Thats the reason why our PM urged Mr.Trump to make fair decisions on VN products . Nothing related to VN food safety here.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam's White House lobbying coup secures strategic gains *

REUTERS/TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 06/04/2017 

*When Vietnam's prime minister sat down with President Donald Trump at the White House last week, it reflected a concerted Vietnamese lobbying effort unmatched by most Asian peers.*

It also underlined the strategic importance the one-time enemy has secured under Trump in the face of China's increasing regional weight and despite a growing surplus that frustrates U.S. trade hawks.

Among Asian leaders, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc's reception followed only those for his Japanese and Chinese counterparts.

Fearful it would lose security and business gains made under the Obama administration, Vietnam's lobbying began as soon as Trump was elected.

"We were already calculating options," said Tran Viet Thai, vice head of the country's Institute for Foreign Policy and Strategic Studies, Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam.

Vietnam got a call set up between Phuc and Trump more than a month before he took office.

Helping to spearhead contacts was Vietnam's ambassador in Washington, Pham Quang Vinh, a veteran of successful efforts under the Obama administration to lift an embargo on arms sales. Pham was also instrumental in the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact, which Trump ditched - to Vietnam's consternation.

Unlike most Southeast Asian countries, Vietnam retains a Washington lobbying firm - the Podesta Group - which it pays $30,000 a month, according to Justice Department documents.

Both the foreign minister and deputy foreign minister made trips to Washington. Also pressed into service were friends in congress, academics and both U.S. and Vietnamese businesses, according to diplomats and researchers.

Vietnam's message was taken to the National Security Council, specifically to Matt Pottinger, senior director for East Asia, and to Vice President Mike Pence's office as well as Defense and State Departments.

Having a career U.S. ambassador in Hanoi helped. Vietnamese-speaking Ted Osius was not among political appointees swept out by Trump.

*'Flooded the zone'*

Vietnam sought multiple routes to Trump.

"They really 'flooded the zone' and comprehensively improved the relationship," said Carl Thayer, of Australia’s Defence Force Academy. "The devil will be in the details, but at this point it does seem to be a success as a piece of pro-active diplomacy from Hanoi."






_U.S. President Donald Trump greets Vietnamese Prime MinisterNguyen Xuan Phuc at the White House in Washington, U.S., May 31, 2017. Photo:_ Reuters

There were broad smiles at the White House, where Trump appeared more at ease with Phuc, a business-minded bureaucrat, than Western leaders who bridle at his "America First" policies.

China is always near the top of Vietnam's concerns, although it tries to avoid alienating its neighbor. 

The joint statement with Trump was just as supportive for Vietnam as one last year - particularly on the South China Sea, where Vietnam is the most vocal opponent of Chinese claims.

In fact, there was more: a possible U.S. carrier visit, acquisition of U.S. defense equipment and both naval and intelligence cooperation.

Trump is due in Vietnam in November for the meeting of countries in the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation group.

*Trade trouble*

The problem for Trump is the trade deficit - the United States' sixth biggest last year at $32 billion. In the first four months of 2017, Vietnam's U.S. exports grew over $400 million more than U.S. imports did.

Some $8 billion *in new deals* with U.S. firms hailed by Trump during Phuc's visit were less than they seemed: at least $5 billion related to deals made public last year.

Trump's decision to abandon the TPP trade pact in the name of protecting U.S. jobs didn't only harm Vietnam, which would have seen tariffs disappear. It would have forced Vietnam to improve access to a market of over 90 million people - more than Germany but with economic growth four times as fast.

"Vietnam's commitments under TPP would have opened many new markets for American exporters," James Fatheree, Asia executive director of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, told Reuters.

Phuc told Trump he would keep to commitments on improving intellectual property rights and labor laws. But without TPP's sweeping provisions, scores of points will need discussion.

U.S. pig farmers want Vietnam to open up Asia's second biggest pork market; electronic payment providers are concerned at being forced to channel payments through a state monopoly; restrictions hamper the growth of online advertising; government procurement is opaque.

*Phuc and Trump's statement *gave an indication of the complexity with mentions of advertising and financial services, information-security products, white offal, distiller’s dried grains, catfish, shrimp, mangoes...

"While the U.S. will try to address the imbalance, the relationship is not strictly about trade," said Vietnam expert Jonathan London of Leiden University. "It’s about the future economic and security order in the Asian region."

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## Viet

Ok some news of the day

Vietnam gets the 3,200 ton Hamilton class cutter with installed radar gun Otobreda 76,2 mm. Both items are new to the coast guard and some of the technology Vietnam can copy. During the meeting with Donald Trump, Vietnamese government requests more patrol ships. Should not be a problem since the Philippine government under Duterte no longer wants US support and assistance.

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## Viva_Viet

VN just conduct a live fire drill for Redut-M naval defense system , an upgrade of 4K44 Redut (NATO:SS-N-3 Shaddock) using P-35B, an anti-air craft carrier missile on 02, Jun.




Watching Video on the link below
http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/vu-khi/ten-lua-doi-hai-viet-nam-vua-ban-manh-den-muc-nao-3336681/

Base on the news, after upgraded, missile range increase from 450km to 550 km







Viet said:


> Ok some news of the day
> 
> Vietnam gets the 3,200 ton Hamilton class cutter with installed radar gun Otobreda 76,2 mm. Both items are new to the coast guard and some of the technology Vietnam can copy. During the meeting with Donald Trump, Vietnamese government requests more patrol ships. Should not be a problem since the Philippine government under Duterte no longer wants US support and assistance.
> 
> View attachment 401332


With abt 20 Hamilton class cutters installed full weapons, VN coast guard force can control the whole East Sea (SCS) plus Malacca strait and put an end to all pirates around those water

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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> VN just conduct a live fire drill for Redut-M naval defense system , an upgrade of 4K44 Redut (NATO:SS-N-3 Shaddock) using P-35B, an anti-air craft carrier missile on 02, Jun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watching Video on the link below
> http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/vu-khi/ten-lua-doi-hai-viet-nam-vua-ban-manh-den-muc-nao-3336681/
> 
> Base on the news, after upgraded, missile range increase from 450km to 550 km
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With abt 20 Hamilton class cutters installed full weapons, VN coast guard force can control the whole East Sea (SCS) plus Malacca strait and put an end to all pirates around those water



Regrettably, there are only 4 Hamiltons left that VN could possibly buy.


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> VN just conduct a live fire drill for Redut-M naval defense system , an upgrade of 4K44 Redut (NATO:SS-N-3 Shaddock) using P-35B, an anti-air craft carrier missile on 02, Jun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watching Video on the link below
> http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/vu-khi/ten-lua-doi-hai-viet-nam-vua-ban-manh-den-muc-nao-3336681/
> 
> Base on the news, after upgraded, missile range increase from 450km to 550 km


Based on good practice this type of antiship missile is fired as second wave of attack after the submarines have disabled enemy air defense destroyers.








Carlosa said:


> Regrettably, there are only 4 Hamiltons left that VN could possibly buy.


Hamilton is the entry point. I would bet Vietnam will begin to ask for second hand frigates, destroyers and aircraft.

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## ckf

Viet said:


> Neutrality, non alignment, respect, trust, peaceful path etc all sound good, but useless even an invitation for aggression if a much more powerful opponent waits for the best moment to attack you. If VN was in the NATO, you think the Chinese would dare to threaten us with military force? Or as you can hear the statements of Chinese posters here and there in 5 or 10 or 15 years they are ready to take back their rightful territories.
> 
> Should we wait until that happens?


Renewable energy is making SCS less relevant day by day, China's interest in SCS could be purely strategic forward base and maintaining status quo going forward. Trump took US out of Paris accord to delay deployment of solar panels in US and allow NAT gas/infrastructure some breathing room(50 Billions invested since 2009 in Nat Gas infra could be obsolete and 150 billion in electrical grid investment also fighting for financial survival). Most likely a solar panel import tax will be added to prevent flood of cheap Chinese imports. In 10 years, Solar could rival Coal and Nat gas in gig watt produced since its cheaper than both in equatorial regions right now and that would make NAT gas prices so low that no one would drill for NAT gas/oil in SCS. Vietnam and Philippines are on the cusp of an exciting energy revolution because of abundant solar power + graphene battery storage innovations. Oil's days are also done and Saudi is selling the crown jewel end of this year. Geopolitics is going to change tremendously over time.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ar-on-record-said-to-be-offered-for-abu-dhabi
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-solar-power-buffett-vs-musk/

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## Carlosa

No, solar is competitive with coal right now:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017...news-in-electricity-since-the.aspx?yptr=yahoo

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/world/asia/india-coal-green-energy-climate.html


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## Viet

ckf said:


> Renewable energy is making SCS less relevant day by day, China's interest in SCS could be purely strategic forward base and maintaining status quo going forward. Trump took US out of Paris accord to delay deployment of solar panels in US and allow NAT gas/infrastructure some breathing room(50 Billions invested since 2009 in Nat Gas infra could be obsolete and 150 billion in electrical grid investment also fighting for financial survival). Most likely a solar panel import tax will be added to prevent flood of cheap Chinese imports. In 10 years, Solar could rival Coal and Nat gas in gig watt produced since its cheaper than both in equatorial regions right now and that would make NAT gas prices so low that no one would drill for NAT gas/oil in SCS. Vietnam and Philippines are on the cusp of an exciting energy revolution because of abundant solar power + graphene battery storage innovations. Oil's days are also done and Saudi is selling the crown jewel end of this year. Geopolitics is going to change tremendously over time.
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ar-on-record-said-to-be-offered-for-abu-dhabi


Whatever. Nobody including the Chinese can take our territories because

- renewable energy is cheap and available
- fish can be raised in ponds
- the Japanese are dirty bad in history
- the US boys are evil in Middle East and elsewhere, oh yes Donald Trump quits Paris climate accord.
- Chinese peaceful rise is unstoppable

Excuse me if I forget other reasons.

Vietnam military exercise

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## xiao qi

__ https://www.facebook.com/










__ https://www.facebook.com/





From VTV, Source : ComCom

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## Viet

VietTel made x-band coastal surveillance radar 





Obviously a copy of Thales Coast Watcher 100, Vietnam has bought in 2013.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> VietTel made x-band coastal surveillance radar
> View attachment 401352
> 
> 
> Obviously a copy of Thales Coast Watcher 100, Vietnam has bought in 2013.
> View attachment 401353



When I saw the first picture and before I scrolled down to see the text below and the other picture, I thought the same thing: a copy of Thales Coast Watcher 100. Viettel is doing some serious work on radars, a lot of activity in that area,

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## Viet

Australia's guided missile frigate HMAS Ballarat is making port call to Tiên Sa (Đà Nẵng). The ship stays for 5 days.





























@jhungary

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Australia's guided missile frigate HMAS Ballarat is making port call to Tiên Sa (Đà Nẵng). The ship stays for 5 days.
> 
> View attachment 401384
> 
> View attachment 401378
> 
> View attachment 401379
> 
> View attachment 401380
> View attachment 401381
> 
> View attachment 401382
> 
> View attachment 401383
> 
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> View attachment 401390
> 
> 
> View attachment 401392
> 
> View attachment 401393



nice

it looked weird having the ASMD upgrade tho....

I thought I saw this ship a few weeks ago docked in Garden Island, and now it is in Vietnam....

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## Viet

On a patrol flight with An26 aircraft

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> nice
> 
> it looked weird having the ASMD upgrade tho....
> 
> I thought I saw this ship a few weeks ago docked in Garden Island, and now it is in Vietnam....


What upgrade is done? Nice ship by the way although she does not look as formidable as a aegis destroyer. Oh yes Welcome to the party: Once Australia's largest ever naval buildup in history, I believe, you will the king in the Southern Pacific. Ok or close to it.

HMAS Ballarat

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam and the United States Make Nice for Now, but Disappointment Looms*
*https://www.cfr.org/blog-post/vietnam-and-united-states-make-nice-now-disappointment-looms
*
This week’s visit of Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc to Washington resulted in the usual readout of supposed achievements and breakthroughs. The prime minister seems to have understood that this U.S. administration likes foreign officials to arrive in Washington with promises of new investments and other deals that the White House can quickly tout as a win. 

And indeed, during the visit the U.S. president boasted that the two nations were signing deals that would result in “billions” in new trade, as well as, supposedly, creating many new jobs in the United States. At a speech at the Heritage Foundation, Vietnam’s prime minister promised roughly $15 billion in new deals. _Reuters _noted, however, that the Commerce Department’s figure for how much the deals would be worth was about one-half the Vietnamese prime minister announced in his speech. 

Still, President Trump declared, “They (Vietnam) just made a very large order in the United States—and we appreciate that—for many billions of dollars, which means jobs for the United States and great, great equipment for Vietnam.” The two sides further discussed strategic issues, such as Vietnam’s desire to buy more cutters; Hanoi is hardly going to follow the lead of the Philippines and back down from its assertive defense of its exclusive economic zones in the South China Sea. 

But this fanfare covers up some major problems in the relationship. The amount of deals announced is unlikely to fully please the U.S. administration, even though Hanoi likely sees the deals, in a way, as a concession to make to please the White House. And Vietnam will almost surely continue to run a major trade surplus with the United States. For an administration that looks at surpluses and deficits in a zero-sum way, trade relations are going to continue to be a primary irritant in the relationship. 

Even on Tuesday, with the Vietnamese prime minister in attendance at an event, according to the _Wall Street Journal_, “U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer appeared to tag Vietnam as a country unfairly benefiting from trade by selling more to the U.S. than it buys. Mr. Lighthizer emphasized a $32 billion U.S. trade deficit with Vietnam while introducing Mr. Phuc at an event for businesses.”

Indeed, trade hawks in the U.S. administration are likely to continue to view Vietnam warily, and the Vietnamese prime minister received little in the way of concrete action on trade from the U.S. side during his visit. It’s easy to imagine U.S. officials continuing to publicly push and shame Hanoi to try to reduce the U.S. trade deficit with Vietnam in some way. U.S. defense companies could seek significant deals in Vietnam, which is rapidly modernizing its armed forces, but Hanoi is not going to shift extensively to U.S.-made systems anytime soon, as much of its weaponry is dependent on Russian systems, which Vietnam has relied upon for decades and which Vietnamese officials are comfortable with. 

What’s more, Hanoi’s leaders and the leaders of ten other nations could well move forward with the Trans-Pacific Partnership without the United States, signaling a further unmooring of Vietnam and the United States’ trade approaches in the Asia Pacific. This does not mean that Vietnam will become even more dependent on trade with China, but it would mean that the trade strategies of Hanoi—which is also negotiating with the European Union—and Washington will continue to further diverge.

Vietnam’s prime minister also supposedly came to Washington with the idea that the two countries could, sometime in the future, negotiate a bilateral free trade deal, according to the _Wall Street Journal_. But such a possibility seems far off—even U.S. officials admit it is a low priority compared to many other potential deals and renegotiations. And in any case it is hard to imagine the two countries generating enough goodwill on trade issues in the next few years to move toward a bilateral deal.

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## Viet

June 4, arrival in Tokyo. Maritime security is of highest priority on the VN/JP 5-day summit. Interesting: 100 Vietnamese companies are accompanying the Vietnamese government and will meet about 1,300 Japanese companies in the largest ever VN/JP economic forum.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> What upgrade is done? Nice ship by the way although she does not look as formidable as a aegis destroyer. Oh yes Welcome to the party: Once Australia's largest ever naval buildup in history, I believe, you will the king in the Southern Pacific. Ok or close to it.
> 
> HMAS Ballarat
> 
> View attachment 401445



The ASMD upgrade mean adding a AESA radar on the super structure, which is this thing






The ship used to be cleaner top deck without the AESA sticking out... It used to look like this






The replacement of SPS-49 into the new ASEA radar give the ship a weird look....

They aren't as formidable as a destroyer because they are only a Frigate (And it is not even a Big frigate like OHP class) they are about 1/3 of the size of AB class destroyer in the USN and about half the size of modern Frigate.

As the largest habitable island nation on earth, we sure have a small navy... 

But still Australian Ship Building is one of the best in the world, we even build ship for USN, the LCS is build by Austral, so does the Expedition Transport dock visiting Vietnam month ago. Maybe in the future we can see Vietnam buying these Australian ship?? Time would tell

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> The ASMD upgrade mean adding a AESA radar on the super structure, which is this thing
> 
> View attachment 401540
> 
> 
> The ship used to be cleaner top deck without the AESA sticking out... It used to look like this
> 
> View attachment 401539
> 
> 
> The replacement of SPS-49 into the new ASEA radar give the ship a weird look....
> 
> They aren't as formidable as a destroyer because they are only a Frigate (And it is not even a Big frigate like OHP class) they are about 1/3 of the size of AB class destroyer in the USN and about half the size of modern Frigate.
> 
> As the largest habitable island nation on earth, we sure have a small navy...
> 
> But still Australian Ship Building is one of the best in the world, we even build ship for USN, the LCS is build by Austral, so does the Expedition Transport dock visiting Vietnam month ago. Maybe in the future we can see Vietnam buying these Australian ship?? Time would tell


No offense but that is not a radar least an AESA butt looks like a bad made chimney of a factory. Ha ha ha. Look at the AESA of the destroyer USS John McCain that is currently spending some days in Camranh bay.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> No offense but that is not a radar least an AESA butt looks like a bad made chimney of a factory. Ha ha ha. Look at the AESA of the destroyer USS John McCain that is currently spending some days in Camranh bay.
> 
> 
> View attachment 401576
> View attachment 401577
> View attachment 401578
> View attachment 401579
> View attachment 401580
> View attachment 401581
> View attachment 401582



lol tell me about it........

That thing sure looked butt ugly...I was on 2 ANZAC ship in 2013 when they decided to open the Naval Base for the Naval Regala. I thought the ship look good, but when I go around Fleet Base East (I travel from Sydney Harbor to Manly which will pass thru the RAN Garden Island) and saw all these upgrade....That's making me puke...

Also I don't think USS McCain have AESA radar, think they have AESA on Flight III Ships only.

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## xiao qi

*Vietnam military delegation visits Cuba*

A high-ranking military delegation led by Defence Minister General Ngo Xuan Lich, is on an official friendly visit to Cuba from June 4-7.




_Sr. Lt. Gen. Leopoldo Cintra Frias visited Vietnam last March_
The visit is made at the invitation of Sen. Lieut. Gen. Leopoldo Cintra Frias, Minister of the Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces (MINFAR).

The trip aims to enhance the ties of the two countries’ armies, while affirming the viewpoint and foreign policy of the Party, State and army of Vietnam in the relations with Cuba. It also contributes to strengthening special solidarity between the two countries and armies.

In March this year, Minister Sen. Lieut. Gen Leopoldo Cintra Frias led a delegation from the MINFAR to visit Vietnam at the invitation of Defence Minister General Ngo Xuan Lich.

http://english.vov.vn/politics/vietnam-military-delegation-visits-cuba-350942.vov

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol tell me about it........
> 
> That thing sure looked butt ugly...I was on 2 ANZAC ship in 2013 when they decided to open the Naval Base for the Naval Regala. I thought the ship look good, but when I go around Fleet Base East (I travel from Sydney Harbor to Manly which will pass thru the RAN Garden Island) and saw all these upgrade....That's making me puke...
> 
> Also I don't think USS McCain have AESA radar, think they have AESA on Flight III Ships only.


You are right. It appears all current US destroyers have passive non-rotating 3D radar SP1. Only newest destroyers will have active version SP6.


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## Viet

*Simulator*

Not much know about this group 167, but the group's engineers and technicians have developed training simulators, writing and making all necessary hardware and software. The system trains naval soldiers in practicing missile control system, firing artillery gun installed on TT400TP gunship and Molniya corvette.

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## Viet

*The future of Asia*

Seriously, Vietnam will attend a Japanese government organizated conference called "the future of Asia". Who says Japan doesn't dream of Co-prosperity sphere for Asia? If it can be achieved by peaceful means why not.

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## Viet

*McCain Part of Congressional Delegation Visit to Vietnam *
*Featured*
05 June 2017 Julie Tarallo





Senator John McCain with the crew of the USS John S. McCain while on a port call in Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam, June 2, 2017


Statement By Senators McCain, Coons & Barrasso On Congressional Delegation Visit To Vietnam

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senators John McCain (R-AZ), Chris Coons (D-DE) and John Barrasso (R-WY) released the following statement today on their congressional delegation visit to Vietnam:

“Our visit to Vietnam came at an important time in light of troubling regional developments and rising challenges in the South China Sea. During our meetings with President Tran Dai Quang, Minister of National Defense Ngo Xuan Lich, National Assembly Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan, and other members of the National Assembly, the Government of Vietnam stressed its commitment to international law and maintaining a favorable balance of power in the Asia-Pacific region, and we explored ways to expand our security assistance and defense cooperation. We also discussed ways to grow our economic relations, deepen foreign investment, and overcome remaining barriers to trade including repealing the cumbersome and costly U.S. Department of Agriculture catfish inspection program and increasing U.S. beef and poultry exports.






_U.S. Senators John Barrasso, John McCain and Chris Coons aboard the USS John S. McCain, June 2, 2017_


“In addition, we spoke frankly about the importance of respecting human rights and encouraged the Government of Vietnam to uphold its international commitments to freedom of assembly and association. We emphasized that progress on this issue will help our relationship grow, and we hope the Government of Vietnam will release political prisoners such as Nguyen Van Dai.


_




Senators John Barrasso, John McCain and Chris Coons aboard the USS John S. McCain, affectionately nicknamed “Big Bad John” by the U.S. Navy, June 2, 2017

_
“This was a particularly memorable visit as we had the opportunity to tour the USS John S. McCain while on a port call at Cam Ranh Bay. It is our hope that the presence of the USS John S. McCain, a ship named for Senator McCain's grandfather and father who spent much of their naval careers in the Asia-Pacific, serves as a symbol of reconciliation between the United States and Vietnam and reminds our allies and adversaries of America's enduring commitment in the region.


_




Senators John Barrasso, John McCain and Chris Coons in front of the Presidential Palace in Hanoi, Vietnam, June 1, 2017

_
“It is noteworthy that at the same time as our visit, the Trump Administration announced its intention to deepen our comprehensive partnership with Vietnam following Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc's visit to the United States. Vietnam is an important partner with which the United States shares many strategic and economic interests, including expanding regional trade relationships and furthering our maritime security cooperation. Going forward, we hope that the United States will continue to expand our military-to-military ties with Vietnam and work more closely together to support the freedom of the seas and skies in the Asia-Pacific region.






_Senators Chris Coons, John Barrasso and John McCain with Vietnam President Tran Dai Quang in Hanoi, Vietnam, June 1, 2017_


“The progress we have made since the normalization of relations 22 years ago is remarkable. At the same time, there is much more we can do together as partners, and we need an ambitious agenda as we look to expand our cooperation and continue to work on remaining war legacy issues. We look forward to visiting Vietnam again soon and to further discussions on how we can continue to advance our strategic partnership.”






_Senators Chris Coons, John McCain and John Barrasso pictured with House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mac Thornberry (R-TX) and other members of the House of Representatives following a tour of Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the “Hanoi Hilton,” in Hanoi, Vietnam, where Senator McCain was held captive during the Vietnam War, May 31, 2017_


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## Viet

*JP/VN Summit*

Tokyo June 5. Deals worth $22 billion are signed. A record.

http://en.vietnamplus.vn/pm-attends-investment-promotion-conference-in-japan/112829.vnp


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## Aqsuperman

Pictures of VPAF L-39s. These come from a new TV series called "E910 - Giảng đường trên mây" or literally "School on the Cloud". The plot is about the training and fighting of VPAF combat pilot generations back from the beginning till today.

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## Viet

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davisb...hedging-its-bets-on-the-u-s/?s=ForeignAffairs





WASHINGTON, DC - MAY 31: USPresident Donald Trump meets with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc of Vietnam in the Oval Office of the White House, on May 31, 2017 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Olivier Douliery-Pool/Getty Images)

There were lots of positive noises emanating from last week’s meeting in Washington between U.S. President Donald Trump and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, but little substantive change in relations between the two countries.

But in this case, no change seems like a win for Vietnam. The joint statement from the two leaders released post-meeting requires careful parsing, as these statements always do, but commitments to continued bilateral cooperation across a broad range of fields were present. There was much affirming and pledging.

There was a certain amount of trepidation amongst Vietnamese officials about what relations would be like in the Trump era, particularly after the warm and cooperative affiliation developed under the Obama administration--the high point of which was a lifting of the moratorium on selling military hardware to Vietnam.

Regional security and the issues of the contested claims in the South China Sea and North Korea’s nuclear program also received a mention. Again, this is hardly surprising and did not deviate from the long-declared positions of both countries.





North Korea's nuclear program, hemmed by its leader Kim Jong-un (pictured here), was a topic of discussion at the recent meeting between U.S. President Trump and Vietnam PM Nguyen Xuan Phuc. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)

Where things are more interesting, particularly in light of President Trump’s decision to withdraw the U.S. from the 12-country Trans Pacific Partnership deal, is in the area of trade. Candidate Trump often railed against trade imbalances with numerous countries, name-checking Vietnam in the process.

The trade imbalance between the two countries was $32 billion last year, and $31 billion the year before. Given Trump’s rhetoric regarding trade before and after his election, this could be a bone of contention going forward. Both leaders trumpeted the signing of about $8 billion in commercial deals, primarily for the purchase of American machinery for electricity production and aircraft engines.

However, it is hard to escape the idea it was a neat feint by the Vietnamese, a shiny object that allowed the U.S. president to hail a deal “for many billions of dollars, which means jobs for the United States and great, great equipment for Vietnam,” while being distracted from the over-arching trade deficit issue.

The U.S. has signalled its preferred approach is making bilateral trade deals, over which it has significantly greater control. U.S. trade representative Robert Lighthizer said as much at a conference in Hanoi last month, saying “The president made a decision, that I certainly agree with, that bilateral negotiations are better for the United States than multilateral negotiations."

Yet the other 11 nations in the TPP are continuing to move toward a deal, with Japan and New Zealand doing much of the heavy lifting. An APEC trade ministers’ meeting in mid-May advanced the agenda of the trade deal, and at the same time China is pushing its expansive, Asia-wide Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP).





Trade ministers of 16 countries from the Asia-Pacific region stand for a group photo during the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) ministerial meeting in Hanoi, Vietnam on Monday, May 22, 2017. (AP Photo/Hau Dinh)

All these competing interests means it is likely in Vietnam’s benefit to play for time to see which way the winds of international trade blow. Doing a deal with the U.S. will mean granting access to its market in areas such as agriculture and financial services that have long received special protection.

Vietnam needs U.S. cooperation in terms of regional security and advancing its goal of becoming an internationally integrated market-based economy. But make no mistake--it also knows how to play the long game.

Also on Forbes: _Vietnam's TPP Backup Plan, A Free Trade Agreement With Europe, Is Facing New Obstacles_

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## Viet

*Czech Republic*






The President of the Czech Republic Milos Zeman arrives in Hanoi on June 6 for a 3-day state visit. Normally not a major event unlike when Donald Trump comes to Vietnam. But most people probably don't know: the Czech Republic is one of two countries in the world that recognizes Vietnamese as one of their national ethnic minorities. It has some advantages when Vietnamese are considered as centuries old ethnics, like the country's ukraine, slovave and belaruse European brothers. Vietnamese receive government funds in maintaining cultural heritage, Vietnamese language being accepted when interactions in courts and state agencies.

The other country that recognizes Vietnamese as ethnic minority is surprisingly...China. The Chinese call them the "Jing" people, derived from the Vietnamese word "Kinh".

@sinait

Prague






Saigon students perform Chinese language proficiency in public. "China bridge".

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> *Czech Republic*
> 
> View attachment 401902
> 
> 
> The President of the Czech Republic Milos Zeman arrives in Hanoi on June 6 for a 3-day state visit. Normally not a major event unlike when Donald Trump comes to Vietnam. But most people probably don't know: the Czech Republic is one of two countries in the world that recognizes Vietnamese as one of their national ethnic minorities. It has some advantages when Vietnamese are considered as centuries old ethnics, like the country's ukraine, slovave and belaruse European brothers. Vietnamese receive government funds in maintaining cultural heritage, Vietnamese language being accepted when interactions in courts and state agencies.
> 
> ]


Seem like those L-39s were import from Czechoslovakia, old name of Czech

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## Viet

Patrol at sea. The Navy needs more warships. Larger warships.

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## Viet

Asia & Pacific
*Japan, Vietnam to bolster maritime security cooperation*







Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, left, and his wife Tran Nguyet Thu, right, meet with Japanese Emperor Akihoto, third from left, and Empress Michiko, third rom right, at the Imperial Palace in Tokyo on, Tuesday, June 6, 2017. Phuc is in Japan on a five-day official visit. (Imperial Household Agency/Pool Photo via AP) (Associated Press)

By Associated Press
June 6 at 8:36 AM

TOKYO — Japan and Vietnam have agreed to bolster their security ties through Japanese-funded projects including the upgrading of Vietnamese coastal patrol capabilities, defense equipment and technology transfer amid concerns about China’s increasingly assertive activity in regional seas.

Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and his Japanese counterpart, Shinzo Abe, held talks in Tokyo on Tuesday and shared “deep concern over the complex developments” involving China in the South China Sea. They urged China — without referring to it by name — to avoid taking actions to change the status quo and escalate regional tensions.

Japan and Vietnam signed more than a dozen agreements, including Japan’s provision of 38 billion yen ($350 million) in development aid to upgrade Vietnamese coast guard vessels and their patrol capability.

Copyright 2017 The Associated Press


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## sinait

Viet said:


> *Czech Republic*
> The other country that recognizes Vietnamese as ethnic minority is surprisingly...China. The Chinese call them the "Jing" people, derived from the Vietnamese word "Kinh".


I am not surprised, considering the long association between both your countries. What I am surprised is the Vietnamese in Czech.
I got this from Wiki.
"
According to the 2001 census, there were 17,462 ethnic Vietnamese in the Czech Republic.[4] The Vietnamese population has grown very rapidly since then, with the Czech Statistics Office estimating that there were 61,012 Vietnamese residing in the Czech Republic in October 2009.[1] Nguyen, the most common Vietnamese surname, is now the 9th most common surname in the entire country.
"
Life there must be good for them. It is also noted that the Vietnamese there are well known for something else other than high levels of educational attainment.
While posting this, I reflect over the long way that your country have come since the daily F-111 bombing missions from their Thailand base.
.

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## Carlosa

*US taking stronger stance in South China Sea – Vietnamese expert*
By: Niña P. Calleja - @inquirerdotnet
Philippine Daily Inquirer / 02:37 PM June 06, 2017
http://globalnation.inquirer.net/15...r-stance-in-south-china-sea-vietnamese-expert




Mischief Reef. (Photo from the Center for Strategic and International Studies)

HO CHI MINH CITY — The United States seems to be taking a stronger stance against China’s activities in the South China Sea, according to Dr. Ha Anh Tuan, director of the Institute for Foreign Policy and Strategic Studies (IFPSS) of the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam.

Among the indications this, Ha pointed out, are the recently implemented Freedom of Investigation Operation (Fonop) implemented by the United States and the meeting between US President Donald Trump and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc on May 31.

On May 25, the USS Dewey, a guided missile destroyer of the US Navy, sailed within 12 nautical miles (22.22 kilometers) of Mischief Reef (Panganiban Reef) in the Spratly Islands, where China has built one of its man-made islands. The reef is being claimed by the Philippines, Vietnam, and China.

Fonop is meant to counter China’s assertion of de facto control over the South China China, where it has nearly finished building artificial islands and military bases.

“In the first month since Trump came into office, the US strategy towards the South China Sea was not clear,” Ha said in an email interview with the Inquirer. “The latest US Freedom of Navigation Operation campaign in May 2017, however, suggests that Trump’s position towards the South China Sea could be even stronger than the one adopted by Obama administration.”

Ha said the delivery of the six coastal patrol vessels to Vietnam, followed by the meeting between Trump and Nguyen on May 31, showed a stronger support of the US against China’s occupation in the South China Sea.

“All are signs of a US commitment, which Vietnam had feared was waning under President Donald Trump,” he said.

Nguyen went to the US for a three-day official visit from May 29 to May 31, which culminated in his first meeting with Trump at the White House. He is the first head of state in Southeast Asia to meet Trump since the latter’s inauguration this year.

Visiting to the US on Trump’s official invitation, the Vietnamese leader also hoped to boost relationship with the US, Vietnam’s top trading partner despite its withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) deal, the trade treaty which an export-oriented Vietnam would have likely benefited from.

Since diplomatic ties between Vietnam and US normalized 20 years ago, bilateral trade has flourished – reaching $36.3 billion in 2014 and $45 billion in 2016.

But the South China Sea was also on the Southeast Asian leader’s agenda. In a joint statement issued after their meeting, Nguyen and Trump called on all parties to “refrain from actions that would escalate tensions, such as the militarization of disputed features.”

In the same statement, Trump assured Vietnam that US would continue to “fly, sail, and operate anywhere international law allows.”

Ha noted that the land reclamation of China in the South China Sea was completed well before Trump’s presidency. This, he said, left the the US with “virtually no option to change that reality.”

China, meanwhile, condemned the US operation, saying the US ship did not ask permission to enter what it claimed to be its territorial waters.

But other claimants in the South China Sea, like Vietnam, were hoping to see more of the US presence in the region “as a way to maintain regional peace, stability and security,” Ha said.

Vietnam and the Philippines, along Malaysia and Brunei, have competing claims with China over the South China Sea.

After his US trip, the Vietnamese prime minister would go next to Japan for an official visit from June 4 to 8 at the invitation of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

A meeting between President Rodrigo Duterte and Trump is also in the offing, as the US president had invited the Philippine leader to visit the White House.

Trump is also expected to visit Vietnam in November for the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation summit to be held there in Danang. /atm

Read more: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/15...uth-china-sea-vietnamese-expert#ixzz4jEsoKlle 

Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook

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## Viet

sinait said:


> I am not surprised, considering the long association between both your countries. What I am surprised is the Vietnamese in Czech.
> I got this from Wiki.
> "
> According to the 2001 census, there were 17,462 ethnic Vietnamese in the Czech Republic.[4] The Vietnamese population has grown very rapidly since then, with the Czech Statistics Office estimating that there were 61,012 Vietnamese residing in the Czech Republic in October 2009.[1] Nguyen, the most common Vietnamese surname, is now the 9th most common surname in the entire country.
> "
> Life there must be good for them. It is also noted that the Vietnamese there are well known for something else other than high levels of educational attainment.
> While posting this, I reflect over the long way that your country have come since the daily F-111 bombing missions from their Thailand base.
> .


Rising from the ashes. oh most of outsiders aka foreigners never know, that was a VERY long way our people in the Czech had gone thru. the czech vietnamese had seen hardship en mass, so are not different to other viet kieu in other countries. a long fight before being recognised as national ethnic group. a nice effect: the vietnamese in czech are considered as czech citizens, and as Czech Republic is part of the EU, the vietnamese are EU citizens as well. and all of this considering we aren´t white. 






http://vovworld.vn/en-US/current-af...namese-community-in-czech-republic-166590.vov

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## Viet

Japan will deliver 6 new patrol ships for VN Coast Guard, financed by ODA. no further details provided.


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## Viet

CZ83 pistole (Czech Republic), most favorite hand gun of Vietnam female security services

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## Viet

Bringing the western way of thinking to Vietnam. The US thru USAid and US department of State gives $15 million grant to the first newly established independent US University in Vietnam: the Fullbright University. Unthinkable 10 years ago.

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## Aqsuperman

And here come the Korean. The PCC-761 Pohang class is now delivered to the VPAN. The current armament seem to be reduced though.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> And here come the Korean. The PCC-761 Pohang class is now delivered to the VPAN. The current armament seem to be reduced though.



What armament does it have besides of the guns? Any missiles?


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## Viet

Artillery




















Hyundai military transporter

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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> What armament does it have besides of the guns? Any missiles?



It could have come with OTH Harpoon Launcher, Twin/Quad Pack. But likely removed for Vietnam Service, Peruvian had 2 Exocet Missile on-board instead. Not know whether or not they can be loaded with Soviet/Russian Missile.

ROKS Cheonam 






The same ship that was sunk by the North Korean in 2010

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## sahureka2

Aqsuperman said:


> And here come the Korean. The PCC-761 Pohang class is now delivered to the VPAN. The current armament seem to be reduced though.



The new optical number *"18"*, which is distinct in style from those used by the of Vietnam People's Navy , but it looks the same as that used by the Philippines Navy.
New style ?
And .... yes, it's the naval base of Vung Tau

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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> The new optical number *"18"*, which is distinct in style from those used by the of Vietnam People's Navy , but it looks the same as that used by the Philippines Navy.
> New style ?
> And .... yes, it's the naval base of Vung Tau


Eh not copying the Philippines but yes Vietnam changed to the widely used international signature some years ago. Previously all warships had the signature HQ dash (Vietnamese for Navy) followed by the number, now just the number.










Some news of the day

During the Vietnam/Japan Summit Shinzo Abe government apparently pushes Phuc to sign TPP-11. The trade bloc will be led Japan, the most economically powerful country after Donald Trump quits the pact. From the news, however VN is not in hurry, wanting more better terms, especially more better market access to richer countries as Japan and Australia.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Th...idering-options-for-TPP-renegotiation-PM-says









Some small but important agreements during the visit of Czech Republic's President Milos Zeman to Hanoi.

http://e.vnexpress.net/news/travel-...-direct-flight-to-czech-republic-3596429.html

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## Aqsuperman

Carlosa said:


> What armament does it have besides of the guns? Any missiles?



Well base on the limited angle of these pictures, i can say several things:

_ No Harpoon or Anti-ship weapon onboard. The PCC-761 ordinary load out dont carry any
_No triple torpedoes launcher racks. ( And good lord, i want it present so much)
_The 76mm Oto Melara rear turret has been removed for unknown reason. probably make space for a makecraft Helipad ? 
_The 40mm Nobong dual turret at front seem to change from a fully enclose turret to a glass turret. The options are a new Nobong turret design but the same dual 40mm, a Sea Vulcan with 6 20mm barrel, a 30mm turret of a Korean design and finally, the same 23mm ZSU we see on our Coast Guard ships :v 
_And finally, the Depth Charge Rack at the very rear of the ship MAY have been removed as well, cant say for sure but the ship rear appearance seem normal so hopefully that this is wrong. At least with that, this ship can function a bit in ASW role and bolster our Petyas which are old as Mother Earth herself 

And about the ship numbering, this hhas been and will be the new regulation from now: Numbers only.

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## Viet

*Assault Rifles*

Some fresh money are recently poured into weaponry factories (z111, z131), that deliver new infantry rifles.

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## Viet

*Chinese media mocks Australia, Japan, India, Vietnam alliance*

Talk of alliance aimed at pushing back on China’s growing influence draws ridicule from state media






Vietnam's Vice Minister of Defence Nguyen Chi Vinh speaks during the Shangri La security dialogue in 2016. Photo: AFP / Roslan Rahman

By ASIA UNHEDGED JUNE 7, 2017 5:43 AM (UTC+8)

China’s Global Times described a new regional bloc as a “ridiculous utopia”, in response to a Reuters report that Australia, Japan, India and Vietnam were quietly stepping up talks to form an alliance to counter Beijing’s growing influence.

The editorial (link in Chinese) argued that the countries in the region need to cooperate with China to achieve their “most important tasks”. At the same time, the Trump administration would pay no mind to the message that Washington needs to step up its regional presence. Trump, after all, needs to fix problems at home, regardless of the “grumbling” of allies.

“Talk of Asian countries ‘forming alliances’ to counter China is always attention grabbing, but this discussion actually becoming an effective geopolitical point of leverage is not realistic Asia is not the Europe of those days, today is not the Cold War era of the past, making new alliances to counter China will severely harm the geopolitical climate…

it would have no benefit for the countries involved, and for these reasons whatever countries actually raised the flag of such an alliance would be almost as awesome as Don Qixote.”

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## Viet

*Cuba* 

General Ngo on a visit to Havanna. Meeting with country's leader General Raul Castro, seeking an increase of military cooperation. Nice: Vietnam and Cuba will share expertise in counterintelligence. The Cubans are said having good experience and knowledge in dwarfing off US military subversion attempts. We can learn one or two lessons from Cuba and adopt it to East Asia.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Well base on the limited angle of these pictures, i can say several things:
> 
> _ No Harpoon or Anti-ship weapon onboard. The PCC-761 ordinary load out dont carry any
> _No triple torpedoes launcher racks. ( And good lord, i want it present so much)
> _The 76mm Oto Melara rear turret has been removed for unknown reason. probably make space for a makecraft Helipad ?
> _The 40mm Nobong dual turret at front seem to change from a fully enclose turret to a glass turret. The options are a new Nobong turret design but the same dual 40mm, a Sea Vulcan with 6 20mm barrel, a 30mm turret of a Korean design and finally, the same 23mm ZSU we see on our Coast Guard ships :v
> _And finally, the Depth Charge Rack at the very rear of the ship MAY have been removed as well, cant say for sure but the ship rear appearance seem normal so hopefully that this is wrong. At least with that, this ship can function a bit in ASW role and bolster our Petyas which are old as Mother Earth herself
> 
> And about the ship numbering, this hhas been and will be the new regulation from now: Numbers only.



Good info, thank you.

Too bad about the triple torpedoes launcher, VN will probably end up installing Indian or Russian ones. It seems like VN will have to do quite a bit of "remodeling" to make the ship compatible with current Vietnamese weapon systems and standards.

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## Carlosa

*Greenhouse farming in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratlys) *

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 06/08/2017 18:05 GMT + 7

http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/41379/greenhouse-farming-on-vietnams-truong-sa-spratly-islands





Naval Sub-Lieutenant Tran Quoc Hiep (first row, third left) during a musical performance on Son Ca (Sand Cay) Island in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago
Tuoi Tre

*An initiative by a volunteer student from Hanoi six years ago now provides soldiers and civilians in Vietnam’s Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelago with a sustainable source of greens.*

In 2011, Naval Sub-Lieutenant Tran Quoc Hiep, at the time still a junior at the Military Academy of Logistics in the Vietnamese capital, first set foot in the East Vietnam Sea archipelago with plans to help islanders grow vegetables in harsh conditions.

“I grew up in Me Linh District just north of the Thang Long Bridge, where my family grew rice, vegetables and flowers to sell in the capital’s downtown,” Hiep said. “I signed up for the Military Academy of Logistics partially because I wanted to use my farming experience to help soldiers who perform their duty in unfavorable conditions.”

“When I heard about a program by the Central Committee of the [Ho Chi Minh Communist Youth] Union that was looking for youths to visit Truong Sa, I just couldn’t resist,” Hiep recalled.

The program’s goal was to seek Vietnamese youths with ideas to help improve the lives of people on the islands.

Joining Hiep on the journey to Truong Sa was then-Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development Bui Ba Bong and Dr. Ngo Quang Vinh from the Institute of Agricultural Science for Southern Vietnam, both of whom showed interest in Hiep’s plan to transform vegetable farming on the islands.

One year later, Hiep graduated with distinction and asked to join the Vietnam People's Navy so that he might pursue his dream of returning to Truong Sa.

In 2015, that dream became a reality when the now-naval sub-lieutenant was stationed on Sinh Ton (Sin Cowe) Island, one of many islands in the Truong Sa archipelago.

Hiep was mobilized to Son Ca (Sand Cay) Island in the same archipelago at the end of 2016 where he is still stationed.

*Vegetable shortage*

According to Hiep, farming for vegetables on the island is a luxury, as every centimeter of cultivatable soil is precious.

“Ten square meters in the mainland may not seem like much, but on these islands even having one square meter of soil for farming is a blessing,” he explained.

“I was fortunate to be stationed on the island when the greenhouse farming project by Dr. Ngo Quang Vinh was already being piloted,” Hiep said. “We worked together on the project. When we first started it was still incomplete, but now both of these islands can provide vegetables for themselves and have no need for outside aid.”

Hiep said on each of the islands he would learn from the farming experience of soldiers and couple it with his own knowledge to introduce effective farming techniques for each particular situation.

The young logistics officer focuses on creating perfect soil combinations and selecting the high-yielding seeds for growing vegetables.

The vegetables are watered daily using urine and recycled water to prevent the greens from the negative effects of salinization from seawater.

In April, two 100 square meter greenhouses were put into operation on Son Ca Island with the help of experts from the Institute of Agricultural Science for Southern Vietnam.

The greenhouses not only provide a more sustainable farming method for locals on the islands but also help collect precious rainwater to be used for daily activities, according to Phan Duc Duy Nha, a research scientist at the institute.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Good info, thank you.
> 
> Too bad about the triple torpedoes launcher, VN will probably end up installing Indian or Russian ones. It seems like VN will have to do quite a bit of "remodeling" to make the ship compatible with current Vietnamese weapon systems and standards.


It would cost the Koreans millions USD if missiles, torpedo and their fire control systems including radar are still mounted on the ship. So cheaper for Korea if all expensive parts are removed. Not to mention there is a risk Vietnam can unlock some secrets of the weapon systems. But for us it is better than nothing. We can try to copy the ship structure and ship artillery.

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## Viet

Meeting with the emperor and empress of Japan






Not too bad the outcomes of the 5-day Vietnam/Japan summit: deals worth $22 billion are signed. On the last day of the summit the Japanese company Nidec announces a plan to open plants in Vietnam in summer 2018 to produce robot components and motors used in air conditioners and household appliances. Worth $500 million. In addition Tokyo will deliver six patrols boats to the Vietnam Coast Guard for $344 million, financed by ODA.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/what-did-the-vietnam-premiers-japan-voyage-accomplish/

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Nidec-to-build-A-C-robot-parts-factories-in-Vietnam

However the biggest prize Vietnam will receive, if the Japanese agree to give Vietnam free access to the rich Japanese consumer market and defense technology. In return Vietnam will agree to Japan led TPP11 and provide Japanese warships the privilege of freedom of navigation in the SC sea


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## Carlosa

*What Did the Vietnam Premier’s Japan Voyage Accomplish?*
*A closer look at Nguyen Xuan Phuc’s trip this week.*
Prashanth Parameswaran
http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/what-did-the-vietnam-premiers-japan-voyage-accomplish/

From June 4-8, Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc paid a four-day visit to Japan. The visit, his second since assuming this position last April, reinforced the importance of the bilateral relationship, which had been elevated to the level of an extensive strategic partnership back in 2014.

Japan and Vietnam have long had an important relationship. The initial focus of ties was economic, and Japan has evolved to become Vietnam’s largest source of official development assistance, second largest foreign investor, third largest tourism partner, and fourth largest trading partner.

But there has been increasing security cooperation as well in recent years, especially with common concerns about China’s maritime assertiveness in the East and South China Seas. This dimension of ties has grown to include not just exchanges and visits, but regular dialogues, port calls, and capacity-building and the sharing of best practices.

The momentum in ties continued through 2017 as both countries prepare to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the relationship in 2018. In February, Japanese Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko had their first ever state visit to Vietnam, following Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s own visit to the country in January. And this week, Phuc embarked on his four-day visit to Tokyo.

Phuc’s trip, which came after his recent voyage to the United States to meet President Donald Trump, consisted of a number of engagements including meetings with Japanese political and economic figures, a summit meeting with Abe, a keynote address at an investment conference, and attendance at the 23rd International Conference on the Future of Asia.

Most of the focus during the visit was on the economic domain, with Phuc and Abe witnessing the handover of agreements worth $22 billion following the investment conference on Vietnam, which Phuc labeled “historic.” The media attention to this part of the relationship was also unsurprising since both countries are part of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), whose future is uncertain following Trump’s withdrawal, and Vietnam will be hosting the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit later this year.

But there were developments on the security side as well. For instance, one of the exchange of notes of yen loan projects signed by the two sides on June 6, which had been pledged by Japan in 2016, was for the Maritime Security and Safety Capacity Improvement Project where Tokyo would deliver six patrols boats to the Vietnam Coast Guard in a deal worth 38.482 billion yen ($344 million). And during the June 5 meeting between Vietnam’s Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and his Japanese counterpart Ro Manabe, both sides hailed the trajectory of current collaboration and pledged to ink a vision plan for the future of Vietnam-Japan defense cooperation.

There were a string of other developments as well, which both sides incorporated into a joint statement on deepening their extensive strategic partnership. In the statement, both sides expressed satisfaction at the “robust, comprehensive, and substantive growth” of the Vietnam-Japan relationship, even in the face of challenges like protectionism as well as “complex developments” continuing to take place in the South China Sea.

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## Viet

UAV2

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## Viet

*AUSTRALIAN NAVY WORKING WITH VIETNAM*
*06/06/2017: *Developing deeper Defence relationships with Vietnam.

In 2017, the Australian Defence Force deployed a team of medical specialists to Exercise Pacific Partnership to work alongside Defence Force personnel and civilian medical practitioners from the United States, Great Britain and Japan in cities and provinces of Malaysia, Myanmar, Sri Lanka and Vietnam.

The Australian contingent included two Royal Australian Navy Medical Officers specialising in Dive Medicine who participated in an information exchange program with the United States Navy ad Vietnam People’s Armed Forces. Pacific Partnership is the largest annual multilateral humanitarian assistance and disaster relief preparedness mission conducted in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region, and aims to enhance regional coordination in areas such as medical readiness and preparedness for man-made and natural disasters.

Australia has been involved in every iteration of Pacific Partnership since it was first started more than twelve years ago after the multinational Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief response to the 2004 tsunami event in Banda Aceh.



























http://www.sldinfo.com/australian-navy-working-with-vietnam/

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## Viet

Cybersecurity
*Frustrated with the Philippines, Vietnam Resorts to Cyber Espionage*

Article by Guest Blogger for Adam Segal





_Philippines' President Rodrigo Duterte (L) shakes hands with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc as they meet at Phuc's Cabinet Office in Hanoi on September 29, 2016 POOL New/Reuters_

The recent disclosure that an Advanced Persistent Threat (APT) operating out of Vietnam covertly released the transcript of talks between the Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte and the United States’ Donald Trump sheds light on an often overlooked cyber actor in the region. The recent disclosure suggests Vietnam is becoming a disruptive regional force in cyberspace.

The appearance of inter-state cyber operations within South East Asia is not surprising given the long-standing, and often territorial, disputes between geographically proximate states. While Vietnam is a known actor in the regional cyber domain, its activity has paled in comparison to China, which undertakes frequent cyber espionage operations against neighbors, including Vietnam. In addition, cyber operations attributable to Vietnam have mainly targeted companies and dissidents – thus letting Vietnam fly under the radar.

What is new and unique is attribution of Vietnamese attacks on Philippine state agencies, which was first reported on May 15. Cyber intelligence firms such as FireEye have attributed these attacks to an actor designated as APT32 (aka OceanLotus Group). The group has been associated with espionage campaigns targeting both foreign governments and local dissidents alike – to an extent mimicking the profile of Chinese operations within this domain.

While no definitive link can be drawn between this group and direct government sponsorship, the alignment between targets and national interest is quite telling and supports the cyber forensic analysis already conducted. While still relying on common techniques such as spear phishing and corrupted Doc files, the hackers’s use of custom-built code suggests they are part of a well-resourced group.

The timing of the documents leak suggests an attempt on the part of the Vietnamese regime (or elements of it) to increase pressure on the Philippines by exposing its warming ties with China. The document disclosure also included notes from a conversation between Duterte and Chinese President Xi Jinping. This rationale is not surprising considering the new president’s conciliatory remarks towards China and his willingness to forgo the advantage gained by the Philippines from the Permanent Court of Attribution in the Hague decision last spring, which weakens the on-going claims by other South East Asian states, including Vietnam.

Nevertheless, even if Vietnam’s motive is evident, what it hopes to achieve is unclear. Is Vietnam trying to shame the Philippines into taking an assertive stance against China? If this is the goal, then the Vietnamese are overlooking the unique characteristics of the current Philippine administration, which has demonstrated an unwillingness to change its policies in the face of external pressure. Duterte’s refusal to curb the excesses of his “war on drugs” despite economic threats (e.g. loss of EU financial aid) reinforces this view.

Perhaps, Vietnam’s goal is simply to sow chaos and distrust – which has been Russia’s objective in recent information operations against the electoral systems of Western democracies. Understood in this context, the burden of response is not on the state, but the society to reject these information disclosures and the more pernicious threat of disinformation. So far, the Philippine public has remained unresponsive to such stimuli and has maintained an overall position of unity against external threats. This outcome calls into question the efficiency of disinformation operations. If the goal of the Vietnamese was to foment outrage in the Philippines and force Duterte to reconsider his position, then proponents of this operation have either failed to understand how the Philippine public would react or have simply poorly timed their disclosure. In this situation, it may have been both.

However, even if ineffective, Vietnam will incur little cost for engaging in cyber operations against neighbors, which is why we can expect them to continue. Despite growing interest in the ASEAN bloc regarding the threat of cyber operations, no mechanism exists to “punish” Vietnam. Similarly, as espionage is considered a routine state behavior, it is unlikely that its neighbors would reprimand Vietnam. Finally, the fact that ASEAN members, in general, are characterized as having limited defense capabilities in cyberspace, publicly criticizing Vietnam may invite future retaliation through cyberspace that other members may wish to avoid.

_Miguel Gomez is a senior researcher at the Center for Security Studies and Brandon Valeriano is a Reader at Cardiff University, the Donald Bren Chair of Armed Politics at the Marine Corps University, a fellow at the Niskanen Center, and author of Cyber War versus Cyber Realities on Oxford University Press._
https://www.cfr.org/article/frustrated-philippines-vietnam-resorts-cyber-espionage

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## Viet

The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
May 31, 2017

*Joint Statement for Enhancing the Comprehensive Partnership between the United States of America and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam*

The President of the United States of America Donald J. Trump hosted the Prime Minister of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam Nguyen Xuan Phuc at the White House today to chart an agenda for United States-Vietnam relations, building on the positive momentum of the Comprehensive Partnership between the two countries.

As a Pacific power with widespread interests and commitments throughout the Asia Pacific, the United States shares many important interests with Vietnam. The two leaders emphasized that many opportunities lie ahead for United States-Vietnam relations, including increasingly enhanced political, diplomatic, economic and trade ties, and ever-growing cooperation in the areas of science and technology, national defense and security, education, people-to-people exchange, humanitarian and war legacy issues, as well as regional and international issues of mutual concern. The two leaders are committed to pursuing these opportunities under an enhanced Comprehensive Partnership, grounded in respect for the United Nations Charter and international law, each other’s independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity, and respective political systems.

The two sides pledged to continue high-level contacts and exchanges of delegations, including through regular dialogue between the U.S. Secretary of State and Vietnam’s Minister for Foreign Affairs to discuss measures to enhance the bilateral Comprehensive Partnership. They also committed to strengthen existing dialogue mechanisms, including party-to-party ties. President Trump expressed his support for Vietnam in successfully hosting APEC 2017 and noted that he looks forward to visiting Vietnam and attending the APEC Leaders’ meeting in November. 

The two leaders pledged to actively promote mutually beneficial and ever-growing economic ties to bring greater prosperity to both countries. They underscored support for continued development cooperation. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc affirmed that Vietnam would pursue a consistent policy of economic reform and international integration, creating favorable conditions for foreign companies, including those of the United States, to do business and invest in Vietnam; protecting and enforcing intellectual property; and bringing its labor laws in line with Vietnam’s international commitments. The two countries affirmed the importance of promoting bilateral trade and creating favorable conditions for the businesses of both sides, particularly through the effective use of the Trade and Investment Framework Agreement to address issues in United States-Vietnam relations in a constructive manner. The two leaders welcomed the resolution of several priority trade issues, including mobile phone roaming services and veterinary drugs, and they pledged to continue to work together constructively to seek resolution of other priority issues of each country, including those related to intellectual property, advertising and financial services, information-security products, white offal, distiller’s dried grains, siluriformes, shrimp, mangos, and other issues. The United States noted Vietnam’s interest in achieving a market economy status, and the two sides pledged to continue to consult in a cooperative and comprehensive manner via the bilateral working group. Both sides welcomed the announcement of more than $8 billion in new commercial deals.

The two leaders pledged to strengthen bilateral defense ties under the 2011 Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on Advancing Bilateral Defense Cooperation and the 2015 Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations. The two leaders discussed the U.S. Government’s recent transfer of a Hamilton-class Coast Guard cutter to help improve Vietnam’s law enforcement capabilities, and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc expressed interest in acquiring more defense equipment from the United States, including additional Coast Guard cutters. The two leaders also discussed measures to expand cooperation in such prioritized areas as humanitarian cooperation, war legacies, and maritime security. They also looked into the possibility of a visit to a Vietnamese port by a United States aircraft carrier and discussed steps to further cooperation between the naval forces of the two countries. The two leaders welcomed the signing of the Memorandum of Understanding on the establishment of the working group on the Cooperative Humanitarian Assistance and Medical Storage Initiative, and pledged to implement the arrangement expeditiously.

The two leaders pledged to strengthen cooperation in the fields of security and intelligence. The United States and Vietnam pledged to work together to combat terrorism as well as transnational and cyber-enabled crimes. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc expressed his appreciation and looked forward to the United States’ cooperation and assistance to Vietnam in the area of United Nations peacekeeping operations, including the provision of equipment and support for Vietnamese officers’ participation in United Nations peacekeeping. 

The two leaders pledged to continue cooperation in the fields of science, technology, space, and innovation. The two leaders expressed their support for a Framework Agreement on Cooperation in the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, as well as for bilateral discussions and forums on science, technology, and innovation.

The two leaders welcomed the growth of people-to-people ties, especially through academic and professional exchange programs. They recognized the important contributions of the Vietnamese–American community and the nearly 4,000 exchange alumni to United States-Vietnam relations. They also noted that, with over 21,000 Vietnamese students currently in higher education programs in the United States, academic ties between the two countries are strong and will be strengthened even further through Vietnam’s support for the launch of the Fulbright University in Ho Chi Minh City. The United States welcomed more Vietnamese students to study in the United States and remains committed to processing visas, including for students, in an expeditious manner in accordance with United States law. The two sides also welcomed the establishment of the Peace Corps program to advance English language learning in Vietnam. 

The two sides committed to work together to address war legacy issues, including through such joint efforts as dioxin remediation, taking note of the progress that has been made at Da Nang Airport and intent to discuss continued collaboration at Bien Hoa Airport, and the removal of unexploded ordnances. President Trump expressed appreciation for Vietnam’s continuing cooperation in the humanitarian mission of accounting for United States personnel still missing from the war, and pledged to cooperate with Vietnam in its efforts to locate its missing soldiers.

Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc affirmed that Vietnam will work actively with the United States to expeditiously return Vietnamese nationals subject to final orders of removal, using the 2008 United States-Vietnam Agreement on the Acceptance of the Return of Vietnamese Citizens as a basis. The two leaders pledged to set up a working group to discuss this issue. 

The two sides pledged to work actively together to finalize agreement on an appropriate representational site and land tenure arrangement for a new U.S. Embassy in Hanoi. The United States pledged to support Vietnam in acquiring new facilities for its representative offices in the United States. 

President Trump and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc welcomed the results of frank and constructive dialogue on human rights, including during the 21st round of the United States-Vietnam Human Rights Dialogue in May 2017, to narrow differences and continue to build mutual trust. The two leaders recognized the importance of protecting and promoting human rights, and the interconnection between human rights and the security and sustainable development of each country. They encouraged further cooperation to ensure that everyone, including members of vulnerable groups, regardless of their gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation, and including persons with disabilities, fully enjoy their human rights. The United States welcomed Vietnam’s ongoing efforts to refine its legal system to better protect and promote human rights for everyone.

On regional issues, the two leaders expressed their concern for the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea’s nuclear and ballistic missile tests, which violate multiple United Nations Security Council resolutions and escalate tensions in the region. Both sides reaffirmed their support for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and urged all parties concerned to strictly implement all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions. 

President Trump and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc affirmed that the South China Sea is a waterway of strategic significance to the international community. The two leaders underscored the importance of freedom of navigation and overflight and other lawful uses of the seas, and noted with concern the destabilizing impacts that unlawful restrictions to the freedom of the seas have on peace and prosperity in the Asia–Pacific region. The two sides also affirmed full support for the peaceful resolution of disputes without the threat or use of force or coercion, in accordance with international law, including full respect for diplomatic and legal processes, and called upon all parties concerned to implement their international legal obligations in good faith in any resolution to these disputes. They highlighted the importance that parties refrain from actions that would escalate tensions, such as the militarization of disputed features. President Trump stressed that the United States will continue to fly, sail, and operate anywhere international law allows. 

The two sides affirmed their continued implementation of the principles decided upon by the leaders of ASEAN and the United States in the 2016 Sunnylands Declaration, and their promotion of activities to commemorate the 50th anniversary of ASEAN’s founding and the 40th anniversary of United States-ASEAN relations. The United States affirmed its commitment to the United States-ASEAN Strategic Partnership, and to supporting common efforts to develop a rules-based ASEAN Community and ASEAN centrality in the evolving regional architecture.

The two countries pledged to continue to work together to address global challenges, including environmental protection, global health, global health security, and trafficking in persons and wildlife. The United States expressed support for Vietnam in its development of a national reference laboratory to enhance the Vietnam’s ability to detect emerging disease threats in the region, and the two countries affirmed their strong support for the Global Health Security Agenda to prevent, detect, and respond to infectious disease threats. The two countries also affirmed their longstanding partnership under the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS relief. As a development partner of the Mekong River Commission (MRC) and a founding member of the Lower Mekong Initiative (LMI), the United States reaffirmed its support for cooperation among MRC members, as well as between MRC members and other regional mechanisms, in using, managing, and developing trans-boundary water sources in an effective and sustainable manner. The United States also affirmed its assistance to Vietnam in combating climate change via concrete mitigation and adaptation measures.

The two leaders heralded the bright future for the enhanced United States-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership and are committed to making it deeper, more substantive, and more effective to better serve the interests of the two peoples, and to better contribute to peace, stability, cooperation, and development in the Asia-Pacific region and the world.

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## Viet

Vietnam defense budget 2016 is $5 billion, expected to expand to $6.2 billion by 2020 (HIS Jane’s). actually very little considering our security threat but the budget can only increase in line with the economy.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201706021054258791-duterte-russia-weapons-philippines/

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## Viet

Some news of the day

_"I think the leadership in Hanoi has felt that the food has fallen out from them in the past years. Key tenets of their strategy for dealing with China, the TPP, or continued U.S. engagement, are now really in doubt,”. “No country in the past few years did more than *Vietnam *to engage the U.S. and ensure that it was committed to regional peace, prosperity, and freedom of the seas, than Vietnam. They have a lot riding on this.”_ says Zachary Abuza, Professor at the National War College, in Washington, DC.

Maybe not a coincidence: two US B1 strategic nuclear bombers conduct bombing raid exercise in the South China Sea, and a bonbon, in the new budget submitted to the Congress, Donald Trump suggests to abolish special inspection on Vietnam cat fish imports as Vietnam government wanted during the US/Vietnam summit in Washington.







The way to go, not empty words, to strengthen Vietnam/Japan relationship: Vietnamese carriers Vietnam Airlines and Jetstar Pacific will begin to serve direct flights to Osaka.











Military run Telecom company VietTel introduces a new 4G Wifi router, an online charge service vOCS and plan to expand business to Indonesia and Nigeria.










Z751 military factory on mass production of 105mm gun truck, artillery finder M21A1, machine gun. some Ural-375Đ trucks have 12,7mm anti aircraft gun.

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## Viet

QĐND nữ sinh

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## Viet

CNC machines at ammunition factory z113, calibre 7.62x54mm (K53), 7.62x39mm (K56), and 7.62x51mm (NATO)

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## Viet

Vietnam wants to acquire 18 SmartScan 3D scanners from the US Company JSC (Passport Systems Inc) for $1 billion for inspection of cargos. Apparently the government expects an increase of trade flows with the United States following the US/Vietnam summit in Washington. The system works at lightning speed, is capable of automatically detecting nuclear material, explosives, drugs, nerve agents and firearm components.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...tscan-3d-to-vietnamese-customs-300468291.html

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## Viet

Australia's guided missile frigate HMAS Ballarat makes stop at Danang. Apart of the good news, there are also bad news too. Vietnamese illegal fishing and asylum seekers darken the bilateral relationship.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> *Cuba*
> 
> General Ngo on a visit to Havanna. Meeting with country's leader General Raul Castro, seeking an increase of military cooperation. Nice: Vietnam and Cuba will share expertise in counterintelligence. The Cubans are said having good experience and knowledge in dwarfing off US military subversion attempts. We can learn one or two lessons from Cuba and adopt it to East Asia.
> 
> View attachment 402448



Vietnam can learn from Qadaffi too. He said his only mistake was to "trust America and the west."

They got him to feel comfortable, got him to disarm, got him to fund their election (sarkozy), and when he did all they expected of him, they stuck a knife in his back; literally and figuratively . Looking at all these "military cooperation" and military "exercise" in the SCS, don't be surprise if they're really exercising against VN. If I was the PM, and they tell me they want to cooperate, i would probably prepare for war against the same people going around spouting "cooperation." This is not judgmental, its not accusation, it's learning from history, their history.

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## fadine

What is this?





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Aqsuperman

fadine said:


> What is this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Look like a Bal - E on truck

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Vietnam can learn from Qadaffi too. He said his only mistake was to "trust America and the west."
> 
> They got him to feel comfortable, got him to disarm, got him to fund their election (sarkozy), and when he did all they expected of him, they stuck a knife in his back; literally and figuratively . Looking at all these "military cooperation" and military "exercise" in the SCS, don't be surprise if they're really exercising against VN. If I was the PM, and they tell me they want to cooperate, i would probably prepare for war against the same people going around spouting "cooperation." This is not judgmental, its not accusation, it's learning from history, their history.


The lesson Vietnam can learn is to have a strong army backed by a strong economy, no way in going back to isolation but increasing interactions with superpower and wannabe. And sometimes it is helpful in holding a loaded gun under the table.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Look like a Bal - E on truck


Nice if confirmed then Vietnam coastal defense finally possesses Bal-E/Kh35 antiship missile truck. End of all speculations. Something like this:

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## Viet

*The miracle of the Han river*

The RoK President Moon Jae-in reveals in his remarkable speech recently what many have known since decades:

"The Korean economy was revived based on the devotion and sacrifice of those who fought in the Vietnam War."

South Korea transformation from one of the poorest countries on the planet to a economic superpower is thanked to the billions of USD and US transfer of technologies, the country received for its involvement of the Vietnam war. RoK troops committed war crimes comparable to the Japanese troops in China. The longer the war, the more monies and goodies RoK got from the US government. No surprise the Koreans were the ones, who promoted aggression, unnecessary prolonging the war.

Not nice but he speaks the truth. At least finally who admits the history. Vietnamese government was not amused, issuing a protest note to the RoK president.

http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aid=3034386&cloc=etc|jad|googlenews

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## Carlosa

*US-Vietnam Defense Ties in the Spotlight with Warship in Cam Ranh*
A LCS visit is just the latest in a series of steps both sides have taken in enhancing their security relationship.





By Prashanth Parameswaran
June 13, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/us-vietnam-defense-ties-in-the-spotlight-with-warship-in-cam-ranh/

On June 12, the U.S. Navy announced that a U.S. warship was conducting a port visit to Vietnam’s Cam Ranh Bay for maintenance. The engagement was the latest in a series that demonstrates the progress that Washington and Hanoi are making in their defense relationship even amid the uncertainty that remains over U.S. President Donald Trump’s broader Asia policy.

As I have noted before, U.S.-Vietnam defense relations have been strengthening over the past few years as part of a broader comprehensive partnership signed in 2013 under former U.S. President Barack Obama. This includes exchanges, exercises, and capacity-building in the maritime security domain with Vietnam’s coast guard as Hanoi continues to contend with Beijing’s assertiveness in the South China Sea (See: “US-Vietnam Defense Relations: Problems and Prospects”).

One outlet for this defense collaboration is U.S. ship visits to Cam Ranh International Seaport, a new international port facility capable of receiving foreign warships that Vietnam had opened back in March last year. The port, located in Cam Ranh Bay, a deep-water harbor in central Vietnam along the South China Sea that Washington had used as a base during the Vietnam War, has since seen visits from a string of countries, including Japan, France, China, the Philippines, and Singapore.

U.S. vessels began docking for maintenance there starting last September, and other interactions have followed since (See: “Vietnam Unveils Port Facility For Foreign Warships in Cam Ranh Bay”). Indeed, just earlier this month, the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS _John S. McCain_ was at a “routine technical stop” in Cam Ranh International Port.

During the visit, U.S. Senator John McCain visited the vessel as part of a broader congressional delegation, which had meetings with Vietnamese officials including President Tran Dai Quang, Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich, and National Assembly Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan. The U.S. Embassy in Vietnam called the engagement “a strong symbol of the positive trajectory of the U.S.-Vietnam comprehensive partnership.”

The presence of the USS John S. McCain – commissioned in 1994 and named after McCain’s father and grandfather who were involved in the Pacific Theater during World War II – was especially significant within the context of the evolution of the relationship. This is not just because of McCain’s role in the normalization process of U.S.-Vietnam relations, but because, back in 2016, the _McCain _along with the submarine tender USS _Frank Cable _were the first U.S. Navy vessels to visit Cam Ranh International Port since it opened back in March 2016.

That visit also came amid a flurry of activity in the U.S.-Vietnam defense relationship in May which I had written about recently, even in the face of continuing challenges both sides face in forging closer ties (See: “US Vietnam Ties Under Trump in the Spotlight with Premier’s Visit”). This included the transfer of a U.S. coast guard cutter and six 45-foot American Metal Shark patrol boats to the Vietnam Coast Guard (VCG) ahead of Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc’s visit to the White House. Vietnam’s defense minister is expected to visit the United States later this year as well as both sides discuss opportunities to advance their ties.

On Monday, in another interaction in the U.S.-Vietnam defense relationship, the U.S. Navy confirmed that the USS _Coronado_, an Independence-class littoral combat ship (LCS), was conducting an Expeditionary Preventive Maintenance Availability in Cam Ranh from June 11-15 as part of a “technical visit” to the international port.

The technical port visit was the first demonstration of expeditionary maintenance capabilities for the rotationally deployed LCS, Task Force 73, the U.S. Navy task force of the Seventh Fleet which coordinates exercises for Southeast Asia, said in a statement. Thought the normal LCS supply and maintenance hub is in Singapore, where the U.S. Navy plans to simultaneously deploy two of the ships in 2018, additional hubs are important to boosting support for the vessels which have run into some challenges since being originally rolled out.

“This technical visit advances our expeditionary maintenance capabilities and further strengthens our partnership with Vietnam,” Rear Adm. Don Gabrielson, the commander of Task Force 73, said in a statement. “Technical visits benefit both nations and increase our geographic flexibility in repairing and maintaining a high state of readiness in our ships.”

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## fadine

VT-Pigeon

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## Viet

Time to say Goodbye

The emperor and empress of Japan are expected to step down from the throne by next year after both Japanese parliament and government have agreed to a historic abdication bill. Ok what has it anything to do with Vietnam? The royal pair has done more than any other in promoting a better tie to Vietnam. By last year 2016 the number of Vietnamese, who goes to Japan for study reaches a new record (54,000), also the number who works as interns (90,000). Ok I read the Japanese want to open their weapon market for Vietnamese buyer.










Ok in case anyone asks why I post such stuff in this thread that is sometimes unrelated to defense topic, I do it because JP is one of my favorite countries

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## Viet

*S. Korea emphasizes relations with Vietnam following Moon's remarks on war*
2017-06-13 17:02


SEOUL, June 13 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's foreign ministry said Tuesday that it cherishes its relations with Vietnam and wants to advance the ties further in its response to an outcry from the country following President Moon Jae-in's recent remarks on the Vietnam War.

In his speech on June 6 marking Memorial Day, Moon said that the contributions made by South Korean soldiers during the Vietnam War helped bolster the economy here. The Vietnamese foreign ministry voiced its displeasure with the president's comments, calling for the Seoul government on Friday to refrain from making comments that could hurt the feelings of its people.

"We cherish our relations with Vietnam very much," foreign ministry spokesman Cho June-hyuck told a regular press briefing.

"Since 1992 when the two established diplomatic ties, we have continued to work to advance the relations with a shared belief that we should set aside the past and look forward.... We will keep working to advance friendly ties going forward," he added.

Cho noted that Moon's comment related to the Vietnam War was intended to remind of the need to provide "appropriate" support for those who sacrificed their lives at the order of the country.

South Korea, which fought against Vietnamese communists during the 1960-1975 Vietnam War, is accused of killing many innocent civilians in Vietnam while carrying out operations during the war. About 5,000 South Korean soldiers died in the war. It remains a sensitive issue for the two countries despite their expanded exchanges in diverse areas for the past 25 years since they built diplomatic ties.





South Korean President Moon Jae-in's special envoy, Seoul Mayor Park Won-soon (L), meets with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Hanoi on May 25, 2017. (Yonhap file photo)

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> *S. Korea emphasizes relations with Vietnam following Moon's remarks on war*
> 2017-06-13 17:02
> 
> 
> SEOUL, June 13 (Yonhap) -- South Korea's foreign ministry said Tuesday that it cherishes its relations with Vietnam and wants to advance the ties further in its response to an outcry from the country following President Moon Jae-in's recent remarks on the Vietnam War.
> 
> In his speech on June 6 marking Memorial Day, Moon said that the contributions made by South Korean soldiers during the Vietnam War helped bolster the economy here. The Vietnamese foreign ministry voiced its displeasure with the president's comments, calling for the Seoul government on Friday to refrain from making comments that could hurt the feelings of its people.
> 
> "We cherish our relations with Vietnam very much," foreign ministry spokesman Cho June-hyuck told a regular press briefing.
> 
> "Since 1992 when the two established diplomatic ties, we have continued to work to advance the relations with a shared belief that we should set aside the past and look forward.... We will keep working to advance friendly ties going forward," he added.
> 
> Cho noted that Moon's comment related to the Vietnam War was intended to remind of the need to provide "appropriate" support for those who sacrificed their lives at the order of the country.
> 
> South Korea, which fought against Vietnamese communists during the 1960-1975 Vietnam War, is accused of killing many innocent civilians in Vietnam while carrying out operations during the war. About 5,000 South Korean soldiers died in the war. It remains a sensitive issue for the two countries despite their expanded exchanges in diverse areas for the past 25 years since they built diplomatic ties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> South Korean President Moon Jae-in's special envoy, Seoul Mayor Park Won-soon (L), meets with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Hanoi on May 25, 2017. (Yonhap file photo)



Lol south korea is America's little bitch.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Lol south korea is America's little bitch.


But an intelligent one apparently. The Koreans know how to make economic gains by sucking blood from other. 300,000 Koreans fought in Vietnam war, the second highest foreign army after the United States, which deployed 3 millions soldiers. Ok many never returned. While American war veterans feel bitterness by seeing all of their sacrifices were useless and betrayed by politicians, the Koreans in the words of Moon Jae-in should feel proud for their soldiers giving their lives for the country's economic rise. Calling him a shameless clown is understatement.

Got a good picture
RoK troop before departing for South Vietnam

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## Carlosa

*Japan Coast Guard vessel joins maritime drills in Vietnam*
By VnExpress June 14, 2017 | 09:32 am GMT+7

*The Philippines will also participate in the anti-piracy training exercises. *

The Japan Coast Guard patrol vessel Echigo arrived in Da Nang on Tuesday to begin a six-day visit that will include anti-piracy drills with the Vietnamese and Philippine navies, according to local media.

The visit continues to affirm the cooperation between Vietnam and Japan to ensure maritime security and safety in the region, according to the _Vietnam News Agency_.

From June 13 to 19, 85 officers and crew members of the ship will also tour the central city and meet local officials. They will also visit Hoi An and Hue.

The 3,100-ton Japanese vessel is 105.4 meters long and 14.6 meters wide.

Captain Toyota Chikara was quoted by _Voice of Vietnam_ as saying that says this is the first Japanese patrol vessel to visit Da Nang since the two countries signed an agreement in September 2016 to boost maritime security.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> But an intelligent one apparently. The Koreans know how to make economic gains by sucking blood from other. 300,000 Koreans fought in Vietnam war, the second highest foreign army after the United States, which deployed 3 millions soldiers. Ok many never returned. While American war veterans feel bitterness by seeing all of their sacrifices were useless and betrayed by politicians, the Koreans in the words of Moon Jae-in should feel proud for their soldiers giving their lives for the country's economic rise. Calling him a shameless clown is understatement.
> 
> Got a good picture
> RoK troop before departing for South Vietnam
> 
> View attachment 403498



Either way, I'm an American now, whether or not real American want to admit it or not. I cant bite the hand that fed me. The south koreans absorbed some deaths for Americans. And, can't say that is a bad thing. Good thing in fact.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Either way, I'm an American now, whether or not real American want to admit it or not. I cant bite the hand that fed me. The south koreans absorbed some deaths for Americans. And, can't say that is a bad thing. Good thing in fact.


True a win win relationship


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## Viet

*USS Coronado Makes Technical Port Visit to Cam Ranh, Vietnam for Expeditionary Maintenance *
*By Task Force 73 Public Affairs *| June 12, 2017








Littoral combat ship USS Coronado (LCS 4) sails during a photo exercise as part of multilateral Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) exercise with the Republic of Singapore and Royal Thai navies, May 11, 2017. CARAT is a series of annual maritime exercises aimed at strengthening partnerships and increasing interoperability through bilateral and multilateral engagements ashore and at sea. *(Photo by MC3 Deven Leigh Ellis)*








The littoral combat ship USS Coronado (LCS 4) moors pierside in Langkawi, Malaysia during the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition 2017. The ship is on a rotational deployment in U.S. 7th Fleet area of responsibility, Mar. 25, 2017. Coronado is a fast and agile warship tailor-made to patrol the region's littorals and work hull-to-hull with partner navies, providing 7th Fleet with the flexible capabilities it needs now and in the future. *(Photo by MC2 Amy M. Ressler)*



CAM RAHN, Vietnam -- USS Coronado (LCS 4) is conducting an Expeditionary Preventive Maintenance Availability in Cam Ranh, Vietnam June 11-15 as part of a technical visit to the international port.

The technical port visit marks the first demonstration of expeditionary maintenance capabilities for the rotationally deployed Littoral Combat Ship independence-class variant.

"This technical visit advances our expeditionary maintenance capabilities and further strengthens our partnership with Vietnam," said Rear Adm. Don Gabrielson, Commander, Logistics Group Western Pacific/Task Force 73. "Technical visits benefit both nations and increase our geographic flexibility in repairing and maintaining a high state of readiness in our ships. We appreciate the opportunity to partner with Vietnam and look forward to working together to enhance stability and create mutually beneficial relationships."

During the technical visit, contractors and ship's force will execute more than 450 preventive maintenance requirements. To conduct the maintenance at locations outside the normal Littoral Combat Ship supply and maintenance hub in Singapore, ship maintenance staff from Commander, Logistics Group Western Pacific coordinated closely with the U.S. Embassy in Hanoi, contractors, and local authorities at the international port.

"There is significant planning and coordination that goes into expeditionary preventive maintenance availabilities," said Cmdr. Fernando Maldonado, Assistant Chief of Staff for ship maintenance and repair. "We approached this maintenance availability very methodically and we had great support from our contractors, the country team, and our Vietnamese partners."

The ability to conduct expeditionary preventive maintenance availabilities at ports across the region enables flexibility in Littoral Combat Ship operations.

"The Littoral Combat Ship was built with agility in mind, so the more flexible we can be with our expeditionary maintenance, the higher the state of readiness, and we get these ships out to sea and on mission for longer periods of time."

Commander, Logistics Group Western Pacific/Task Force 73 staff conduct advanced planning, organize resources and directly support the execution of NEA Vietnam in addition to maritime exercises such as the bilateral Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) series and the multilateral Southeast Asia Cooperation and Training (SEACAT) with Bangladesh, Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore and Thailand. The staff also directs logistics and ship maintenance on behalf of the U.S. Pacific Fleet across the Indo-Asia-Pacific.

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## Viet

For the first time ever, Japan invites Vietnam to a 3-day Tokyo weapon show (June 12,13,14). In total, 16 Japanese defense companies and as special guest Lockheed Martin's F35 stealth fighter aircraft display their stuffs on the exhibition. I don't think we buy it even if we are allowed to do. Too expensive. Unless a wonder happens, we possess a dollar printing machine. Nice bird.

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## Viet

Some events

Vietnam, China signing agreement combatting transnational border crimes







The girls should be the best army graduates of the year. Not sure.







Vietnam needs more submarines. The upcoming Vietnam/Russia summit this month will bring clarification.















Ground troop exercise











A military history museum. One of many. Most wars Vietnam fought concern a certain country in the northern front.

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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet I am back and it is a shame Vietnam has to rely on US and I am surprised that Vietnam only bought migdet submarines from DPRK and maybe ammunition in the past.

Have you tried Rising Storm 2: Vietnam?



Viet said:


> Nice if confirmed then Vietnam coastal defense finally possesses Bal-E/Kh35 antiship missile truck. End of all speculations. Something like this:
> 
> View attachment 403190



I wish it was on a tracked chassis like DPRK has for better off-road mobility.

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet I am back and it is a shame Vietnam has to rely on US and I am surprised that Vietnam only bought migdet submarines from DPRK and maybe ammunition in the past.
> 
> Have you tried Rising Storm 2: Vietnam?
> 
> 
> 
> I wish it was on a tracked chassis like DPRK has for better off-road mobility.


Hey hey welcome back, where have you been yugo?

Why should we feel any shame when cooperating with America? I'm not doing any politics but obviously Vietnam wants to maintain the balance of power in the region. Neither side should have military superiority, dominating the SC sea, the western Pacific. You can see, Vietnam also does everything to encourage the Russians to keep a presence. Russian nuclear bombers continue flying in and out of Camranh airport. Yes at least we aren't doing bad thing, not like the shameless kimchi folks when they feel no shame when raping Vietnam for a handful dollars.

Rising storm 2? No not yet, actually not my favorite pastime. You?

Seems some sorts of revival. Games, films, memorials Vietnam themes come up en mass.

The video quality of test firing of Kh35 missile is bad. Hardly to see anything, but I believe the missiles are on a truck.

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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> Hey hey welcome back, where have you been yugo?
> 
> Why should we feel any shame when cooperating with America? I'm not doing any politics but obviously Vietnam wants to maintain the balance of power in the region. Neither side should have military superiority, dominating the SC sea, the western Pacific. You can see, Vietnam also does everything to encourage the Russians to keep a presence. Russian nuclear bombers continue flying in and out of Camranh airport. Yes at least we aren't doing bad thing, not like the shameless kimchi folks when they feel no shame when raping Vietnam for a handful dollars.
> 
> Rising storm 2? No not yet, actually not my favorite pastime. You?
> 
> Seems some sorts of revival. Games, films, memorials Vietnam themes come up en mass.
> 
> The video quality of test firing of Kh35 missile is bad. Hardly to see anything, but I believe the missiles are on a truck.



Roaming the web for information and Reddit where I roasted people, Pakistanis and Indians are too easy.

Dealing with Americans is like dealing with Chinese, indoctrinated to the extreme that it affects their inteligence.

I'l try RS2:V when more content comes put.

DPRK got my atention.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Roaming the web for information and Reddit where I roasted people, Pakistanis and Indians are too easy.
> 
> Dealing with Americans is like dealing with Chinese, indoctrinated to the extreme that it affects their inteligence.
> 
> I'l try RS2:V when more content comes put.
> 
> DPRK got my atention.


We know the Chinese in and out since thousands of years, including their nationalism outburst and bottomless hatred that come up from time to time. North Korea is a textbook example showing if a certain threshold in terms of nuclear weapon program and missile technology is reached, everything comes with surprise by every single day. We are not there yet. We are late to the party.

You can assume everyone prepares for a showdown.


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## Carlosa

*South Korea seeks to calm Vietnam after controversial remarks by president*




South Korean President Moon Jae-in delivers a speech during a ceremony marking Korean Memorial Day at the National Cemetery in Seoul, South Korea, June 6, 2017. Photo by Reuters/Kim Hong-Ji
South Korea's foreign ministry on Tuesday affirmed that the country values its relations with Vietnam and wishes to enhance bilateral ties, according to _Yonhap_.

"We cherish our relations with Vietnam very much," the foreign ministry spokesperson Cho June-hyuck was quoted as saying at a regular press briefing. "Since 1992 when the two established diplomatic ties, we have continued to work to advance the relations with a shared belief that we should set aside the past and look forward."

"We will keep working to advance friendly ties going forward," Cho said on Tuesday.

The statement came as a response to a controversy involving South Korean President Moon Jae-in's remarks on veterans in the Vietnam War.

In a speech last week, Moon honored the country's soldiers who fought in the Vietnam War, saying their contributions helped their country.

Vietnam's foreign ministry on Monday criticized this and requested the South Korean government not to make such hurtful statements.

On Tuesday, Cho, the spokesperson, said Moon's remark was only intended to remind of the need to provide support for those who sacrificed their lives for their home country.

South Korean troops massacred about 9,000 Vietnamese civilians during the Vietnam War, according to an investigation by historian Ku Su-jeong.

However, the South Korean government has never acknowledged that any civilian massacre took place at the hands of its troops, the _Los Angeles Times_ reported in an article in May 2015.

South Korea deployed more than 300,000 troops to Vietnam from 1964 to 1973, second only to the U.S. military force.

It is now the largest foreign investor in Vietnam with $50 billion at the end of 2016, according to the Korea Trade-Investment Promotion Agency.

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## Viet

Domestic made 30mm ammunition for ship and land based rattling guns.













































Next to bring mobility to the ground troop. There is no lack of ammunitions.

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## Carlosa

*Japanese coast guard ship visits the city*
DA NANG Today
Published: June 14, 2017

On Tuesday, the Japan Coast Guard ship ECHIGO, carrying 85 officers and crew members, docked at Da Nang’s Tien Sa Port to begin a 7-day friendly visit to the city.





The Japan Coast Guard ship ECHIGO

The Japanese guests were welcomed by representatives from the Command of the Viet Nam Coast Guard, the municipal Department of Foreign Affairs, the High Commands of Military Zone 5, the Border Guard High Command, and the city's Military Command.

This is the 4th time that a ship of the Japan Coast Guard has paid a friendly visit to Da Nang. However, it is the first visit since a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on enhancing the capacity of law enforcement missions at sea was signed between the two nations’ coast guard forces in September 2015.

During their stay in the city, the Japanese guests are scheduled to visit the Maritime Search and Rescue Coordination Centre Region II and the Coast Guard Region II Command. In addition, they will join with the Viet Nam Coast Guard force to conduct a practice on how to enhance law enforcement missions at sea.

During his reception the same day for the ship’s Commander Toyota Chikara, municipal People's Committee Vice Chairman Ho Ky Minh expressed his delight at the fine development of bilateral ties with Japan over recent years.

Vice Chairman Minh also hoped that the visit will help to deepen the bilateral comprehensive cooperation with a focus on enhancing the capacity of law enforcement missions between the two nations’ coast guard forces to ensure maritime security and safety in the region.

Commander Chikara said that he was very impressed with the cargo handling activities at the Tien Sa Port. He vowed to do his utmost to ensure the efficiency of the upcoming practice. In addition, he pledged to make even more effort to promote bilateral cooperation with Viet Nam, especially on maritime safety.

The 105.4m-long and 14.6m-wide ECHIGO has a displacement of 3,100 tonnes. It is equipped with numerous modern electronic warfare systems. Most notably, its stern features a helicopter landing deck.

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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> We know the Chinese in and out since thousands of years, including their nationalism outburst and bottomless hatred that come up from time to time. North Korea is a textbook example showing if a certain threshold in terms of nuclear weapon program and missile technology is reached, everything comes with surprise by every single day. We are not there yet. We are late to the party.
> 
> You can assume everyone prepares for a showdown.



DPRK will sooner or later match India on several parameters as a nuclear power and could focus on national development.

South Korea should give war reparations in form of tanks.


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## Viet

*Russia* 

Comrade Vladimir Putin is probably one of the most generous people in the world. As part of the deal of transfer of technology to Vietnam he provides up to 1,000 scholarships per year for outstanding Vietnamese students, that are great in Russian language, Mathematics, Physics and Informatics. Probably after study at famous Russia universities, the graduates could advance later at home vietnamese efforts in industrialization.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> DPRK will sooner or later match India on several parameters as a nuclear power and could focus on national development.
> 
> South Korea should give war reparations in form of tanks.


ha ha you have weird idea. why should the south koreans pay any sorts of reparations? in tanks?
VN actually maintains a good and quite relationship to north korea. Not long ago, the NK army chief Pak Yong Sik came to Hanoi for a secret visit. there are something between VN adn NK we can exchange. not only good ideas.


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## AViet

Such a secret visit.

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## GrandWorldOrder

How is this a secret visit, it was all over the internet. It was literally just to commemorate DPRK-Vietnamese relationships


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## GrandWorldOrder

AViet said:


> Such a secret visit.


"Minister of the People’s Armed Forces Gen. Pak Yong Sik and a delegation of the Korean People’s Army [KPA] met with Vietnam’s President Trương Tấn Sang on November 27 (Friday). Also attending the meeting were DPRK Ambassador to Vietnam Kim Myong Gil, senior Vietnamese government officials and senior officers of the Vietnam People’s Army [VPA]. The KPA delegation’s visit is also marking the 65th anniversary of DPRK-Vietnam relations.

According to KCNA, President Sang said that “friendly and cooperative relations between the two countries established by President Ho Chi Minh and President Kim Il Sung (Kim Il-so’ng) are now steadily growing stronger under the deep care of the top leaders of the two countries” and he noted “it is the consistent stand of the Vietnamese leadership to attach importance to the traditional relations of friendship and cooperation between the two countries and steadily boost them.” President Trương Tấn Sang also noted that the “the Vietnamese party, government and people are pleased with the achievements made by the army and people of the DPRK in their efforts for carrying out the cause of socialist construction” and he expressed his “conviction that victory belongs to the DPRK under the wise leadership of Marshal Kim Jong Un (Kim Cho’ng-u’n).” According to the Vietnamese government, Gen. Pak Yong Sik remarked that he and the KPA delegation were “very impressed with the economic development, social security and national defense of Vietnam, particularly its emphasis in party building and development of the military.” Gen Pak thanked Vietnam for its support of the DPRK during the years and he “affirmed his personal support to contribute greatly to building relations between the DPRK and Vietnam.”

Earlier during the day, Gen. Pak and the KPA delegation met with Gen. Phùng Quang Thanh, Minister of Defense, the Vice Chief of the VPA General Staff and other senior VPA officers. According to KCNA, “both sides exchanged views on the issue of boosting exchange and cooperation between the armies of the two countries and reached a consensus of views on the matters discussed.” Gen. Phùng, according to the MOD, said that “Vietnam attaches great importance to the traditional relations, nurtured by President Ho Chi Minh and President Kim Il Sung” and Gen. Pak “expressed with the pleasure that this was his first visit to Vietnam and see the country’s socio-economic development.”

Pak Yong Sik emphasized that DPRK-Vietnam relations were one of traditional friendship, “nurtured by elder generations which should be maintained and actively promoted.” According to the Vietnamese government, the KPA and VPA discussed “issues of common concern” and “reviewed the results of cooperation between the KPA and VPA which actively contribute to strengthening of relations between the two countries.” Gen. Pak and Gen. Phùng “agreed to continue to maintain traditional relations through enhanced exchanges, visits, student exchange, cultural and sports cooperation.”

Gen. Pak Yong Sik participated in a VPA welcome ceremony. Gen. Pak and the KPA delegation also attended a reception hosted the Ministry of Defense and they also conducted several tours of VPA locales.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Such a secret visit.





GrandWorldOrder said:


> How is this a secret visit, it was all over the internet. It was literally just to commemorate DPRK-Vietnamese relationships


My remark should be considered as humor.


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## Viet

*Vietnam president to visit Belarus soon *
Politics 14.06.2017 | MINSK, 14 June






Tran Dai Quang



MINSK, 14 June (BelTA) – Vietnam President Tran Dai Quang will come to Belarus on an official visit soon, BelTA learned from Ambassador of Vietnam to Belarus Le Anh during the presentation of Vietnam's travel opportunities in the 2017-2018 autumn-winter season on 14 June, BelTA has learned.

The diplomat reminded that Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko visited Vietnam in 2015. “A plan of joint action in the sphere of sport and tourism for the next three years was coordinated and a package of documents was signed. A reciprocal official visit of the Vietnam president to Minsk is supposed to take place soon. Several agreements will be signed during the visit. All of it indicates that friendship and cooperation between our countries grows stronger and advances,” stressed Le Anh.

The presentation was arranged in view of the forthcoming visit and for the sake of getting Belarusians familiar with opportunities for visiting Vietnam. “With its favorable geographic, climatic, and natural conditions, Vietnam has a considerable and versatile potential for tourism development. There are many national parks in Vietnam as well as areas on the UNESCO list of biosphere reserves in addition to a huge number of tourism zones with multiple international-class resorts,” continued the diplomat. “Thanks to the large number of large and small islands, sandy beaches and clean sea water Vietnam has a great potential for sea tourism development. All the necessary conditions are present for combining tourism in sea and island areas with cultural and educational tourism. Tourism infrastructure is rather rapidly developing in coastal areas, allowing creating a new image of Vietnam's tourism industry.”












The ambassador reminded that Belarusians can visit Vietnam without visas for up to 15 days as of 1 July 2015. Thanks to this measure the number of tourists visiting Vietnam increased by 65% in comparison with 2014. About 6,000 tourists visited Vietnam every year in 2015-2016, said Le Anh.

Marina Mastashova, a consultant at the Tourism Department of the Belarusian Sports and Tourism Ministry, noted that the dialogue between Belarusian and Vietnamese travel agencies has been invigorated recently. Interest of Belarusian travel agencies in the Vietnamese market is now more pronounced.

Mikhail Vinogradov, chairman of the Belarus-Vietnam friendship society, also made a speech during the presentation. In his time he took part in the fight for Vietnam's independence and talked about that complicated period of the country's history. Mikhail Vinogradov pointed out that Vietnam is developing very rapidly. The Vietnamese side remembers the contribution of Belarusian war veterans to the fight for independence and invites them to come to visit all the time. Each delegation is welcomed by the president of Vietnam. Thus, Belarusian veterans can get familiar with how far the country has developed.

http://eng.belta.by/politics/view/vietnam-president-to-visit-belarus-soon-102375-2017/


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## Viet

*Troop review*

People many notice the Marines with new rifle and camouflage. But I think they need more weight in the body. Eating more meat, trinking more milk. Vietnam is facing a surplus of pigs and pork meat of gigantic dimension.



















*UAV*

some new models, just small steps taken

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> *Troop review*
> 
> People many notice the Marines with new rifle and camouflage. But I think they need more weight in the body. Eating more meat, trinking more milk. Vietnam is facing a surplus of pigs and pork meat of gigantic dimension.
> 
> View attachment 404096
> View attachment 404097
> View attachment 404098
> View attachment 404099
> View attachment 404100
> 
> 
> 
> *UAV*
> 
> some new models, just small steps taken
> 
> View attachment 404105
> 
> View attachment 404106



The surplus will hopefully make meat more affordable. The uniform has a professional look to them.


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

A variant that has three engine double tail drone carrying 2 S-5 rockets would be nice head on against infantry...



TenLua said:


> The surplus will hopefully make meat more affordable. The uniform has a professional look to them.



You don't have to need to eat much meat to have strong soldiers, look at Cubans.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> The surplus will hopefully make meat more affordable. The uniform has a professional look to them.


Yes I like the camo too. A right step in the right direction.

Meat is cheap. In general food is cheap. Per statistics VN belongs to major world pig producers, with 29 million heads and growing. but since the Chinese recently impose some sorts of embargo by stopping buying, VN has a massive problem. Luckily there are patriot consumers, domestic and foreign companies, who support the desperate call of the government by eating more pork.

Samsung for example. The company puts more pork to the menu: pork to breakfast, pork to lunch, pork to dinner. Eating pork until you drop 






http://vietnamnews.vn/bizhub/378456/samsung-viet-nam-to-prioritise-pork-use.html


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## Viet

*Romania* 

The biggest private employer of Romania, Tulcea shipyard, brings 300 Vietnamese ship welders and locksmiths to the country. The company says receiving many orders recently and needs workers. Not too bad, if considering besides money we can learn some European expertise in shipbuilding, helping our civil and non civil program at home.














https://www.romania-insider.com/romanian-shipyard-brings-300-workers-vietnam/


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

I would like to send private messages to you if you don't mind, add me to friend list.

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> I would like to send private messages to you if you don't mind, add me to friend list.


Yes no problem


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## Providence

HI @Viet


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## Viet

Providence said:


> HI @Viet


Hi what's up man?

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## Viet

*Vietnamese hostage escapes as air, artillery strikes pound Abu Sayyaf in Basilan*
*By 
InterAksyon*


Published: June 17, 2017, 11:30 AM




Medical personnel treat Hoang Vo, a Vietnamese sailor who escaped his Abu Sayyaf captors in Basilan and was recovered by the military. (Westmincom photo handout)

MANILA, Philippines — A Vietnamese sailor held for more than seven months by the Abu Sayyaf escaped from his captors in Basilan as government forces pounded the extremists with air and artillery strikes Friday, the Western Mindanao Command said.

Hoang Vo, a crew member of the MV Royal 16, was recovered by troops of Joint Task Force Basilan at the Sumisip-Ungkaya Pukan Complex “following an airstrike launched against the group of Furudji Indama,” Westmincom said in a statement.

Vo was one of six crewmen of the MV Royal 16 who were seized southeast of Sibago Island in Basilan on November 11 last year. He was listed earlier by the Coast Guard as the second mate of the vessel.

“Vo, 28 years old and a resident of Nghe An, Vietnam, was found by our troops with a wound on his back,” TF Basilan commander Colonel Juvymax Uy said, adding the escaped hostage was in stable condition after being given medical attention.

The Vietnamese found his opportunity when his captors “dispersed due to the airstrike and artillery fires delivered by the troops.”

The soldiers also recovered four rifles. The Abu Sayyaf is holding 26 captives, 21 in Sulu and five in Basilan.


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## Viet

Vietnam/China troops team up for a 3-day anti terror exercise (June 20, 21, 22)


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

The way you set up your profile page in here does not give me option of starting/initiating private conversations.


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## GrandWorldOrder

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> The way you set up your profile page in here does not give me option of starting/initiating private conversations.


When you realize it's a guy [emoji44]


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## yugocrosrb95

@GrandWorldOrder 

You about me or him? Me about him? Him about me?

I would mind if @Viet was like gtn34


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## GrandWorldOrder

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @GrandWorldOrder
> 
> You about me or him? Me about him? Him about me?
> 
> I would mind if @Viet was like gtn34


Viet is a dude...

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## yugocrosrb95

GrandWorldOrder said:


> Viet is a dude...



I know, I am fucking with you. LMFAO


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> The way you set up your profile page in here does not give me option of starting/initiating private conversations.


Sorry Yugo I have no clue how to set up a beautiful profile page, but hey if you want to send me a PM, how about this: you post the encrypted texts on this normal thread and in parallel you transfer me the secret key via PM? With the key I will decrypt the texts.

You do realize the mods can read every PM, don't you?


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> Sorry Yugo I have no clue how to set up a beautiful profile page, but hey if you want to send me a PM, how about this: you post the encrypted texts on this normal thread and in parallel you transfer me the secret key via PM? With the key I will decrypt the texts.
> 
> You do realize the mods can read every PM, don't you?



Tell me something I don't know and so what, let chinese mods be salty.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> Tell me something I don't know and so what, let chinese mods be salty.


Ha ha come on send me a PM.


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## yugocrosrb95

Viet said:


> Ha ha come on send me a PM.



I went to your profile page and it says you imposed limits on who can see.

Did keyboard monkey made this forum? >_>

I give up, do you have a twitter account?


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> I went to your profile page and it says you imposed limits on who can see.
> 
> Did keyboard monkey made this forum? >_>
> 
> I give up, do you have a twitter account?


Ok try again. unser privacy I check on "start a conservation with you=members". Why twitter?

Back to topic

Aircraft model, hands and map with colored lines: Vietnam fighter pilots dogfighting exercise


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet

Nicht, neine... Nada... Zero... Nula...

Because private messages can be send  and it would be slightly harder for chinese.

That kind of dogfight excercise with models is what NK do while world laughs at them... idiots


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> Nicht, neine... Nada... Zero... Nula...
> 
> Because private messages can be send  and it would be slightly harder for chinese.
> 
> That kind of dogfight excercise with models is what NK do while world laughs at them... idiots


Anyone can laugh including a Croat nobody in VN cares of. If you know anything better then tell us. Do you know why the Chinese didn't send a single fighter aircraft during the war with Vietnam in the 1979? The same reason why the US founded during the war with Vietnam in the 1960s the Top Gun Naval Fighter School to train the best pilots to better respond to increasing aerial threats. Vietnamese air defense and fighter pilots shot their jets down like chickens. There is a famous Hollywood movie with Tom Cruise: Top Gun. The dogfight scenes are quite good.

Sure there are flight simulators but pilots can hardly train dogfight with enemy fighter aircraft in close contact.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Anyone can laugh including a Croat nobody in VN cares of. If you know anything better then tell us. Do you know why the Chinese didn't send a single fighter aircraft during the war with Vietnam in the 1979? The same reason why the US founded during the war with Vietnam in the 1960s the Top Gun Naval Fighter School to train the best pilots to better respond to increasing aerial threats. Vietnamese air defense and fighter pilots shot their jets down like chickens. There is a famous Hollywood movie with Tom Cruise: Top Gun. The dogfight scenes are quite good.
> 
> Sure there are flight simulators but pilots can hardly train dogfight with enemy fighter aircraft in close contact.
> 
> View attachment 404438
> 
> View attachment 404439


Didn't stop the US rolling thunder operation to bomb anything the NVA had.

The US during the Vietnam war have sole monopoly on air superiority. The only reason china don't send jets are probably the same reason Nehru didn't send air cover during the war with China. They just don't want it to escalate.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Didn't stop the US rolling thunder operation to bomb anything the NVA had.
> 
> The US during the Vietnam war have sole monopoly on air superiority. The only reason china don't send jets are probably the same reason Nehru didn't send air cover during the war with China. They just don't want it to escalate.


The US airforce had learned from previous encounters. They deployed more aircraft, more trained pilots with better tactics and not at least modern air-to-air missiles. Consider this: during the 12-day air battle over Hanoi (1972), the US fielded 207 B52 bombers and 2,000 fighter aircraft, coming in waves, in formation that darkened the sky. Normally nobody would have survived. But the city has survived despite being heavy wounded.

The wars the Chinese fighting against India and Vietnam can't be compared in scale and conditions. Fighter aircraft can't be easily deployed in mountainous regions between China/India. In contrast Vietnam and China have no natural barriers. True nobody wanted to escalate the war to a point of no return.

The deployment of aircraft and warships would be the step.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> The US airforce had learned from previous encounters. They deployed more aircraft, more trained pilots with better tactics and not at least modern air-to-air missiles. Consider this: during the 12-day air battle over Hanoi (1972), the US fielded 207 B52 bombers and 2,000 fighter aircraft, coming in waves, in formation that darkened the sky. Normally nobody would have survived. But the city has survived despite being heavy wounded.
> 
> The wars the Chinese fighting against India and Vietnam can't be compared in scale and conditions. Fighter aircraft can't be easily deployed in mountainous regions between China/India. In contrast Vietnam and China have no natural barriers. True nobody wanted to escalate the war to a point of no return.
> 
> The deployment of aircraft and warships would be the step.


Bro, u r wasting time of teaching how hard of the Real war wt super power like US to pple living in failed countries that cant even stop barbarian/terrorist attacks.

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Bro, u r wasting time of teaching how hard of the Real war wt super power like US to pple living in failed countries that cant even stop barbarian/terrorist attacks.


True we shouldn't care less of other even if they go down the drain otherwise we are accused of attacking their Khmer brothers or other pretexts. Not necessary a bad thing to hit the face of any aggressor, letting them to pay a price.

Well for the Philippines, we are far but not too far from the country. The inability of the PN army and security forces to crush the few hundreds muslim terrorists is in a short time really worrisome. Imagine the terrorists come in few tausends. The Navy should step up patrols along the sea border, preventing terrorists from going out and going to the Philippines.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> Bro, u r wasting time of teaching how hard of the Real war wt super power like US to pple living in failed countries that cant even stop barbarian/terrorist attacks.


The US haven't able to stop any major terrorist attacks. So what that makes them?

Fun facts: you can't stop terrorist attacks only prevent it. Anybody with a passing knowledges about terrorism would know it.

Also another fun facts: The NVA only won because of technicality. The US won every battle & engagements. Even the US bombed the NVA with impunity for 20 years. Even operation linebacker failure was mostly atributed to Nixon's fault. Like I used to said it was the "Hippies" that gave the North vietnamese their "victories" not the Vietnamese people. So really what do you have to be so proud of?

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## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The US haven't able to stop any major terrorist attacks. So what that makes them?
> 
> Fun facts: you can't stop terrorist attacks only prevent it. Anybody with a passing knowledges about terrorism would know it.
> 
> Also another fun facts: The NVA only won because of technicality. The US won every battle & engagements. Even the US bombed the NVA with impunity for 20 years. Even operation linebacker failure was mostly atributed to Nixon's fault. Like I used to said it was the "Hippies" that gave the North vietnamese their "victories" not the Vietnamese people. So really what do you have to be so proud of?


Due to her history of immigration, so there are alot of barbarians /slaves living in US, so terrorism, making from those barbarians /slaves, is unavoidable if US cant kill all of those slave/ barbarian. And bcs US also a capitalist nation, so those stupid US capitalist tycoon just can't stop selling guns to their own barbarians /slaves. So, US simply will fall like Karl Marx predict abt Capitalism.

Of course, VNese have lots of reason to proud of our Grate victory in 1975. We proved that No one in the region can stop our expansion the sub Mekong region. We have thousands Scud ballistic missile that can *destroy any cities within 700km, VN also have nuke capable missile Shaddock, range 550km and the right to enrich uranium in our soil (JP is not allowed to enrich uranium). No ASEAN nations have same missile like VN to fight back*. We have strongest coast guard in the region now wt more big ships like USCGC Morgenthau coming from US , JP. Malacca soon will be in our hands.

BTW: nuff talk to ppl in failed states, more big ships are coming to VN, try to stop us , dont bark on internet


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## Reashot Xigwin

TenLua said:


> LMAO fun fact: the phillipine national army lost every single engagement to 100 terrorists. The only reason their national army will win is because hippie terrorists are protesting in the streets. hippie terrorists handed back a philipine city which took them no effort at all to take control of.
> 
> Probably the biggest joke in the military world right now is the philipine military, i'm sorry. LOL. The local police force in any other country could've taken that city back with hands tied behind their back.
> 
> Shit, I could've taken that city back in 36 hours. With a pistol. Wearing slippers, jeans and t-shirt. No air support needed. That's a FACT!!! FACT I TELL YOU!!! LOLOLOL







Vietnamese AA.

People in glass house shouldn't throw rock.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 404691
> 
> Vietnamese AA.
> 
> People in glass house shouldn't throw rock.


posting silly pictures does not make you smarter. SA-2 ground to air missile during Vietnam war.






some are still in place as open museum


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## GrandWorldOrder

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 404691
> 
> Vietnamese AA.
> 
> People in glass house shouldn't throw rock.


You realize thats just local self defense militia training with second hand weapons? I wouldn't try and act smart considering our actual air defense systems consists of computer controlled automatic cannon and Russian made surface to air missiles like the S-300 whereas the Philippines has none.

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## GrandWorldOrder

That's a nice anti aircraft gun the Philippines has there.


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## GrandWorldOrder

Viva_Viet said:


> Due to her history of immigration, so there are alot of barbarians /slaves living in US, so terrorism, making from those barbarians /slaves, is unavoidable if US cant kill all of those slave/ barbarian. And bcs US also a capitalist nation, so those stupid US capitalist tycoon just can't stop selling guns to their own barbarians /slaves. So, US simply will fall like Karl Marx predict abt Capitalism.
> 
> Of course, VNese have lots of reason to proud of our Grate victory in 1975. We proved that No one in the region can stop our expansion the sub Mekong region. We have thousands Scud ballistic missile that can *destroy any cities within 700km, VN also have nuke capable missile Shaddock, range 550km and the right to enrich uranium in our soil (JP is not allowed to enrich uranium). No ASEAN nations have same missile like VN to fight back*. We have strongest coast guard in the region now wt more big ships like USCGC Morgenthau coming from US , JP. Malacca soon will be in our hands.
> 
> BTW: nuff talk to ppl in failed states, more big ships are coming to VN, try to stop us , dont bark on internet


I appreciate your nationalism but for f*ck's sake just because we have uranium and long range missiles does not mean we are going to create nuclear weapons.

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## Reashot Xigwin

GrandWorldOrder said:


> You realize thats just local self defense militia training with second hand weapons? I wouldn't try and act smart considering our actual air defense systems consists of computer controlled automatic cannon and Russian made surface to air missiles like the S-300 whereas the Philippines has none.


The majority of vietnamese AAguns are handcranked from soviet era or god forbid colonial era guns from the last world war.

Still if the militia wasted their time with "exercise in futility." That means the regular are no better.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> The majority of vietnamese AAguns are handcranked from soviet era or god forbid colonial era guns from the last world war.
> 
> Still if the militia wasted their time with "exercise in futility." That means the regular are no better.


I tell you a secret that you don´t know yet: winning a war is more than having a soldier wearing highpriced sunglass with a gold plated gun. that is the reason why VN wins war after war, despite armed with most primitive weapons. it has to do with IQ. wait until your country indonesia wins the next war against China or America or France, then do come back here discussing.

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## TenLua

Reashot Xigwin said:


> View attachment 404691
> 
> Vietnamese AA.
> 
> People in glass house shouldn't throw rock.



Lmao you are from indonesia? Hahahahahahaha and you want to talk about militaries? Hahahahahaha cmon, you serious right? Indonesia and military cant even be written in the same sentence. Indonesia cant fight a war against me let alone a country. Thats a fact. All fact and no fiction.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The majority of vietnamese AAguns are handcranked from soviet era or god forbid colonial era guns from the last world war.
> 
> Still if the militia wasted their time with "exercise in futility." That means the regular are no better.



Fun fact: Vietnam militia can conquer indonesia with spoons and forks. No guns needed against cowards. Indonesian military, which is in and of itself a silly joke, is just all show and no go? When have you guys ever won a war against anything? Shit, ill conquer indonesia solo, and thats a fact. You never hear anything about indonesia and its military for a reason. Its not even worth mentioning. Its just pathetic. Thats why you're here trying to comfort yourself with selfproclaimed fact lol.


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## yugocrosrb95

North Korea at its worst state it was during famine would kick todays Indonesian army, let alone in its prime strenght in 1980's which would conventionaly destroy Indonesia.


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## Reashot Xigwin

yugocrosrb95 said:


> North Korea at its worst state it was during famine would kick todays Indonesian army, let alone in its prime strenght in 1980's which would conventionaly destroy Indonesia.


Do tell us how the NK would beat the TNI with half starving army? I'm waiting... [emoji41]


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## TenLua

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Do tell us how the NK would beat the TNI with half starving army? I'm waiting... [emoji41]



Dude, NK with its starving army would steem roll indonesian army. Like i said, doesnt take much to beat a bunch of pussies. That is a fact.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Do tell us how the NK would beat the TNI with half starving army? I'm waiting... [emoji41]



as a matter of fact, the Philipine military would crush the indo military. The philipine military has seen more action in a week than indo in the entirety of their existence. that's a fact. indo like to dress up and pretend to be an army but those mofo would get a massive collective heart attack at the sound of a gun shot.

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## jhungary

@Viet @Carlosa

It's with heavy heart to inform you one of your compatriot, an Vietnamese American was killed on the June 17 USS Fitzgerald collision with Cargo Ship ACX Crystal.

The US Navy just release the name of all 7 Killed in the accident. One name, belong to an Vietnamese American

Sonar Technician 3rd Class *Ngoc T Truong Huynh*, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut

http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/News/...avy-identifies-7-deceased-fitzgerald-sailors/

RIP sailor

YOKOSUKA, Japan (NNS) - The remains of seven Sailors previously reported missing were located in flooded berthing compartments, after divers gained access to the spaces, June 18, that were damaged when the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with the Philippine-flagged merchant vessel ACX Crystal.

The deceased are:

- Gunner’s Mate Seaman *Dakota Kyle Rigsby*, 19, from Palmyra, Virginia

- Yeoman 3rd Class *Shingo Alexander Douglass*, 25, from San Diego, California

- Sonar Technician 3rd Class *Ngoc T Truong Huynh*, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut

- Gunner’s Mate 2nd Class *Noe Hernandez*, 26, from Weslaco, Texas

- Fire Controlman 2nd Class *Carlos Victor Ganzon Sibayan*, 23, from Chula Vista, California

- Personnel Specialist 1st Class *Xavier Alec Martin*, 24, from Halethorpe, Maryland

- Fire Controlman 1st Class *Gary Leo Rehm Jr.*, 37, from Elyria, Ohio

The incident is currently under investigation.

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## yugocrosrb95

It is more tragic when a 19 year old dies.


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## jhungary

yugocrosrb95 said:


> It is more tragic when a 19 year old dies.



yeah, but this is Vietnamese subsection.....They may want to know one of them was just killed 2 days ago...Have posted this on another thread as the update on USS Fitzgerald collision.


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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> Lmao you are from indonesia? Hahahahahahaha and you want to talk about militaries? Hahahahahaha cmon, you serious right? Indonesia and military cant even be written in the same sentence. Indonesia cant fight a war against me let alone a country. Thats a fact. All fact and no fiction.
> 
> 
> 
> Fun fact: Vietnam militia can conquer indonesia with spoons and forks. No guns needed against cowards. Indonesian military, which is in and of itself a silly joke, is just all show and no go? When have you guys ever won a war against anything? Shit, ill conquer indonesia solo, and thats a fact. You never hear anything about indonesia and its military for a reason. Its not even worth mentioning. Its just pathetic. Thats why you're here trying to comfort yourself with selfproclaimed fact lol.


Lets conquer the whole ASEAN wt USCGC Morgenthau


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## initial_d_mk2

Is this the quality of vietnamese people!!?? i dont know i should laugh or took pity


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> @Viet @Carlosa
> 
> It's with heavy heart to inform you one of your compatriot, an Vietnamese American was killed on the June 17 USS Fitzgerald collision with Cargo Ship ACX Crystal.
> 
> The US Navy just release the name of all 7 Killed in the accident. One name, belong to an Vietnamese American
> 
> Sonar Technician 3rd Class *Ngoc T Truong Huynh*, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut
> 
> http://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/News/...avy-identifies-7-deceased-fitzgerald-sailors/
> 
> RIP sailor
> 
> YOKOSUKA, Japan (NNS) - The remains of seven Sailors previously reported missing were located in flooded berthing compartments, after divers gained access to the spaces, June 18, that were damaged when the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with the Philippine-flagged merchant vessel ACX Crystal.
> 
> The deceased are:
> 
> - Gunner’s Mate Seaman *Dakota Kyle Rigsby*, 19, from Palmyra, Virginia
> 
> - Yeoman 3rd Class *Shingo Alexander Douglass*, 25, from San Diego, California
> 
> - Sonar Technician 3rd Class *Ngoc T Truong Huynh*, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut
> 
> - Gunner’s Mate 2nd Class *Noe Hernandez*, 26, from Weslaco, Texas
> 
> - Fire Controlman 2nd Class *Carlos Victor Ganzon Sibayan*, 23, from Chula Vista, California
> 
> - Personnel Specialist 1st Class *Xavier Alec Martin*, 24, from Halethorpe, Maryland
> 
> - Fire Controlman 1st Class *Gary Leo Rehm Jr.*, 37, from Elyria, Ohio
> 
> The incident is currently under investigation.


I read the news. For a moment I thought, wait a moment, a Filipino container ship, great shit, Durtete takes revenge for Mindanao. How can a fast, agile and modern $1 billion aegis destroyer equipped by most sophisticated radar and navigation system be hit by a slow moving big ship? And nearly got sunk. Ok the container ship made unexpected U-turn, regardless the destroyer designed to escape even a salvo of enemy torpedo should be able to avoid the collision.

There are questions the parents of the dead young sailors certainly want to be answered.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I read the news. For a moment I thought, wait a moment, a Filipino container ship, great shit, Durtete takes revenge for Mindanao. How can a fast, agile and modern $1 billion aegis destroyer equipped by most sophisticated radar and navigation system be hit by a slow moving big ship? And nearly got sunk. Ok the container ship made unexpected U-turn, regardless the destroyer designed to escape even a salvo of enemy torpedo should be able to avoid the collision.
> 
> There are questions the parents of the dead young sailors certainly want to be answered.



Well, my source in the navy told me that there are high chances that the Cargo Ship is Iron Fisting the ship, which mean nobody was in the pilot house and the ship was run on autopilot. The Cargo Ship sudden movement was never explained, the captain of the cargo ship said the ship was never turn around or made any sharp turn (but you can see from the published AIS data almost everywhere suggested that it did) and the ship turned at 1703-1709, the destroyer hit it at 1720 as the 7th Fleet press conference reported

In some way, this cannot be avoid, 11 minutes is very small time to react to be honest, but I would have thing the captain of the destroyer would probably be relieved for command failure because he was not in the pilot house or bridge at that moment, he was trapped in his quarter when both ship crashed. And since 7 men were killed, there gonna be answer.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Well, my source in the navy told me that there are high chances that the Cargo Ship is Iron Fisting the ship, which mean nobody was in the pilot house and the ship was run on autopilot. The Cargo Ship sudden movement was never explained, the captain of the cargo ship said the ship was never turn around or made any sharp turn (but you can see from the published AIS data almost everywhere suggested that it did) and the ship turned at 1703-1709, the destroyer hit it at 1720 as the 7th Fleet press conference reported
> 
> In some way, this cannot be avoid, 11 minutes is very small time to react to be honest, but I would have thing the captain of the destroyer would probably be relieved for command failure because he was not in the pilot house or bridge at that moment, he was trapped in his quarter when both ship crashed. And since 7 men were killed, there gonna be answer.


If either ship was running on autopilot and the crew going sleeping in a busy waterway then it is reckless if not committing suicide. 11 minutes should be enough time for the destroyer. We are talking about a $1 billion ship. I think too the captain of the destroyer should take some responsibilities. He bears consequences of the crew if it fails.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> If either ship was running on autopilot and the crew going sleeping in a busy waterway then it is reckless if not committing suicide. 11 minutes should be enough time for the destroyer. We are talking about a $1 billion ship. I think too the captain of the destroyer should take some responsibilities. He bears consequences of the crew if it fails.



The US warship is probably piloted by OOD (Officer On Deck) which is a junior officer (a LT or LTJG) and the Captain was sleeping in his quarter. The Cargo Ship likely to have Autopilot on.

Well, 11 Minutes may seem a lot, but power train on a destroyer does not kick in until it's 2 to 3 minutes after the command was put in, and while the Destroyer may be nimble, they can probably dodge a small ship (or Smaller ship) in that time frame, but a big giant Cargo ship heading your way in 10 minutes in a congested sea lane, there are not much you can do, the cargoship is too big and you need to totally get out of its way to be able to sail clear, not sure if there are anything to be done, every which way you go, that ship is going to hit you.

But yes, most believe the Captain on the Destroyer is going to be replaced for sure. He took helm of that ship a little over a yaer, before that the captain of USS Fitzgerald is a Chinese American called CMDR Robert Shu.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> The US warship is probably piloted by OOD (Officer On Deck) which is a junior officer (a LT or LTJG) and the Captain was sleeping in his quarter. The Cargo Ship likely to have Autopilot on.
> 
> Well, 11 Minutes may seem a lot, but power train on a destroyer does not kick in until it's 2 to 3 minutes after the command was put in, and while the Destroyer may be nimble, they can probably dodge a small ship (or Smaller ship) in that time frame, but a big giant Cargo ship heading your way in 10 minutes in a congested sea lane, there are not much you can do, the cargoship is too big and you need to totally get out of its way to be able to sail clear, not sure if there are anything to be done, every which way you go, that ship is going to hit you.
> 
> But yes, most believe the Captain on the Destroyer is going to be replaced for sure. He took helm of that ship a little over a yaer, before that the captain of USS Fitzgerald is a Chinese American called CMDR Robert Shu.


I saw a video when a destroyer kicks in emergency brake, full stop and pulls back. Quite impressive. Ok anyway as for Chinese or Vietnamese whatever nationality, as captain he bears responsibility and consequences everything onboard everything what his crew does or fails to do. Seaman's tradition.


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## Nike

yugocrosrb95 said:


> North Korea at its worst state it was during famine would kick todays Indonesian army, let alone in its prime strenght in 1980's which would conventionaly destroy Indonesia.




just a big lol, how? they dont have meaningful Navy


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## initial_d_mk2

madokafc said:


> just a big lol, how? they dont have meaningful Navy


Let them be, they are living in their own fantasy, their parent inhale too much agent orange that makes them a bit "special" if you know what i mean lols...... You know, i have to admit that vietnamese are number one in south east asia, number one in delusional and bullshiting.....


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## xiao qi

*Senior Chinese military official visits Vietnam*
Nguyen PhuTrong, General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee meets with visiting Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission Gen. Fan Changlong in Hanoi on June 18. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/ Photo by Li Xiaowei)

HANOI, June 19 (ChinaMil) – General Fan Changlong, vice chairman of China’s Central Military Commission (CMC), visited Vietnam on June 18, and met with Nguyen PhuTrong, General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam, Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich in Hanoi.

During the meeting, General Fan Changlong said that China and Vietnam are good neighbors and partners and are a community of shared destiny of strategic significance.

Thanks to the care and push of the leaders of both countries, the China-Vietnam relations is growing with good momentum, and their cooperation in various fields has yielded good results, Fan added.

China is willing to cooperate with Vietnam in implementing the Belt and Road Initiative and the Two Corridors, One Economic Circle initiative, and push pragmatic cooperation in all fields for mutual development, Fan continued.

China pays close attention to developing the mil-to-mil relationship with Vietnam and hopes to make united efforts to push it forward to a higher level, Fan added.

Nguyen PhuTrong said that Vietnam and China are friendly socialist neighbors, and the two countries and their Communist Parties are enjoying sound relationship and deepening communication and collaboration in various fields at present.

He added that Vietnam wishes the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China (CPC National Congress) a great success, and believes that under the leadership of the CPC with Xi Jinping at the core, China is sure to achieve its goal of comprehensively building a moderately prosperous society.

Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang thanked China for inviting him to visit China and attend the Belt and Road Forum for International Cooperation, saying that closer friendly cooperation between the Vietnamese and Chinese militaries will help deepen the mutual trust between the two counties and Communist Parties and facilitate the fruitful collaboration between China and Vietnam.

Noting the traditional friendship between the two countries that was forged through war and blood, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc said that Vietnam is willing to make joint efforts with China to implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea effectively and form a code of conduct early in the South China Sea.

He added that Vietnam looks forward to the fruitful development of bilateral and military-to-military relations with China.

Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich marked the substantial progress on the mil-to-mil relations between Vietnam and China in recent years and their sound cooperation in border defense, peacekeeping and search and rescue at sea. The Vietnamese military hopes to deepen the communication and cooperation with its Chinese counterpart and carry forward their traditional solidarity and friendship.

General Fan Changlong reaffirmed China's stance on the South China Sea issue, and stressed that the South China Sea islands are Chinese territory since ancient times.

The current situation in the South China Sea is stable, which is not easy and should be cherished, he added, and urged both sides to abide by the important consensuses reached by leaders of both countries and Communist Parties, step up strategic communication, properly control divergences, and maintain the overall situation of China-Vietnam relations and peace and stability in the South China Sea.

Chinese Ambassador to Vietnam Hong Xiaoyong, Commander of the PLA Southern Theater Command Yuan Yubai, Deputy Chief of Staff of the Joint Staff Department under China’s CMC Shao Yuanming, Chief of Staff of the PLA Army Liu Zhenli, Deputy Commander of the PLA Navy Liu Yi, and Deputy Political Commissar of the PLA Air Force Song Kun, were present in relevant activities.

Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang meets with visiting Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission Gen. Fan Changlong in Hanoi on June 18. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Li Xiaowei)
http://english.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-06/19/content_7644790.htm

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## AViet

initial_d_mk2 said:


> Let them be, they are living in their own fantasy, their parent inhale too much agent orange that makes them a bit "special" if you know what i mean lols...... You know, i have to admit that vietnamese are number one in south east asia, number one in delusional and bullshiting.....


.

Not all Vietnamese are like these, man. Most do like and respect Indonesia. Do not lump all Vietnamese and oversea ethnic Viet together.

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## Viet

The joke of century. A Chinese "scholar" warns Vietnam not to cozy up nor seek partnership to America and Japan because these evil two countries can destabilize the region. He lives in a dream world.

http://zeenews.india.com/world/vietnams-ambition-may-stir-confrontation-chinese-scholar-2016674.html

South Korea says "Sorry" and increases investment to a new record. Near one billion USD flows into Vietnam manufacturing machine per month.

http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=231434

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## Viet

Heavy stuff

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> We are talking about a $1 billion ship. .



Actually US$1.843 billion (DDG 114–116, FY2011/12)
Easy 2 billion now.

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## yugocrosrb95

You Indonesians are in denial, your logistics is absolute nightmare with so many different weapons and vehicles being used under same categories.

That alone is very crippling in a war time operation and in the end more costly since Indonesia is a large importer of arms.

Indonesian military competence that is has is from expensive toys it has that compensate for incompetence.

NK navy has 80 subs and a lot of semi and fully submersible infiltration and torpedo boats.

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## TenLua

AViet said:


> .
> 
> Not all Vietnamese are like these, man. Most do like and respect Indonesia. Do not lump all Vietnamese and oversea ethnic Viet together.



What? You come into a Vietnamese forum, you start talking shit about Vietnamese, wtf did you expect? You don't talk shit then pretend you're a victim; that trait must be inherent among indonesian.



initial_d_mk2 said:


> Let them be, they are living in their own fantasy, their parent inhale too much agent orange that makes them a bit "special" if you know what i mean lols...... You know, i have to admit that vietnamese are number one in south east asia, number one in delusional and bullshiting.....



Coming from someone who live in a country run on an antiquated caste system LOL. You know what that mean? It means you guys are a bunch of fucking inbreed.

If Vietnam is not #1, who the **** is? indonesia? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA please, please, the comedic value in that thought alone is too much for me. LOLOL




initial_d_mk2 said:


> Is this the quality of vietnamese people!!?? i dont know i should laugh or took pity



Indonesians are deserving of pity. Just look at their pitiful history. Just a unremarkable piece of shit that will be conquered by Vietnam LOL


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## TenLua

madokafc said:


> just a big lol, how? they dont have meaningful Navy



North Korea can completely conquer indonesia in less than a week. indonesian would run and abandon all their equipment at the first shot. I'm sorry but that is reality. you guys can't even operate an AA gun without killing each other on accident. if that is not a show of incompetent i don't know what is. LOL

And look at you, the reason why you're all wrapped up is because you cant bare the humiliation of showing it LOL


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## initial_d_mk2

Big lols for you and your delution bhahaha..... Caste system!? Errrrr perhaps you mistaken us with India lol.... Talking about lack of education


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## TenLua

initial_d_mk2 said:


> Big lols for you and your delution bhahaha..... Caste system!? Errrrr perhaps you mistaken us with India lol.... Talking about lack of education



http://www.globalindonesianvoices.com/27435/encountering-balis-caste-system/

Don't know your own country. Talk about education, dear lord, the ignorance is astounding.

Or, one can always be in denial, but that does not change the fact.

Is that you dressing up pretending to be a soldier? I'll bitch slap your pussy indonesian *** like the joke that you are LOL


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## Nilgiri

initial_d_mk2 said:


> Let them be, they are living in their own fantasy, their parent inhale too much agent orange that makes them a bit "special" if you know what i mean lols...... You know, i have to admit that vietnamese are number one in south east asia, number one in delusional and bullshiting.....



You realise person madokafc responding to is not vietnamese? Some croat dude.


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## initial_d_mk2

Nah, viet are vietnamese, i am not replying on that croat guy, i am out now, i will let those vietnamese imagining shit that will never happen, good days you gays, i have to drive to work.


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## Nilgiri

TenLua said:


> http://www.globalindonesianvoices.com/27435/encountering-balis-caste-system/
> 
> Don't know your own country. Talk about education, dear lord, the ignorance is astounding.
> 
> Or, one can always be in denial, but that does not change the fact.
> 
> Is that you dressing up pretending to be a soldier? I'll bitch slap your pussy indonesian *** like the joke that you are LOL



Dude from your own article:

_However, due to modernization the rules of caste are no longer as rigid as it used to be, as apparent in Bali and India—two well-known societies which still practice the caste system. In Bali especially, instead of their caste, people are classified based on their economy status.

In India, people from differing castes can study in the same schools, ride the same trains and buses, and dine in the same restaurants. Meanwhile in Bali, someone from a lower caste can work in higher positions compared to those from a higher caste, or own capital._

In Bali especially, this caste thing was never strong to begin with....discrimination nowadays is mostly economic and ethnic based, which is not an Indonesia specific thing. Quoting Bali would be like quoting the Cham hill tribes etc in Vietnam representing all of Vietnam.

Anyways this is all going way OT. Can we stop dragging in India, Indonesia, Caste etc etc and other countries for no Vietnam related reason?

Lets focus on Vietnam defence please.

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## Viva_Viet

02 more coast guard ships just finished. Who can have a stronger coast guard force than VN in the region ?? 



Tàu kiểm ngư KN-506 và KN-508.
http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/quo...am-ha-thuy-cap-tau-kiem-ngu-may-nhat-3337621/

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## Aqsuperman

Funny for a Indonesian to come here and criticize VPA anti-aircraft system while the Indonesia military only operate MANPADS on truck and same Soviet - era auto-cannon (or Chinese copies that blow their troop up), not even a single dedicate medium range AA missile system. North Korea may as well fire away their missiles into Indonesia butt and you all will just take it with joy 

But well let return to the topic of the thread. The most difficult task of each live ammo exercise of the VPA is not in the the exercise itself, its the preparation that take up most of the time. Most important one are unloading and loading the ammunition, this is to make sure that they dont just blow up in the soldier face.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Actually US$1.843 billion (DDG 114–116, FY2011/12)
> Easy 2 billion now.


Expensive. So a US destroyer costs more than the entire VN spending on new military hardware in a year.

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## GS Zhou

Viva_Viet said:


> Who can have a stronger coast guard force than VN in the region ??


No one, as long as China is not counted as "in the region". 

China Coast Guard Ships, No. 2901, No. 3901, 12000 ton in displacement, both deployed in South China Sea

Ship 2901, in Sanya, Hainan Province





Ship 3901, in waters of Xisha Islands

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> No one, as long as China is not counted as "in the region".
> 
> China Coast Guard Ships, No. 2901, No. 3901, 12000 ton in displacement, both deployed in South China Sea
> 
> Ship 2901, in Sanya, Hainan Province
> View attachment 405036
> 
> 
> Ship 3901, in waters of Xisha Islands
> View attachment 405037


He probably has Southeast Asia as region in mind. True nobody can't beat China, yours is longer. The girls like you.

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## Viva_Viet

GS Zhou said:


> No one, as long as China is not counted as "in the region".
> 
> China Coast Guard Ships, No. 2901, No. 3901, 12000 ton in displacement, both deployed in South China Sea
> 
> Ship 2901, in Sanya, Hainan Province
> View attachment 405036
> 
> 
> Ship 3901, in waters of Xisha Islands
> View attachment 405037


CN forces lost in oil rig conflict against VN coast guard


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## Aqsuperman

GS Zhou said:


> No one, as long as China is not counted as "in the region".
> 
> China Coast Guard Ships, No. 2901, No. 3901, 12000 ton in displacement, both deployed in South China Sea
> 
> Ship 2901, in Sanya, Hainan Province
> View attachment 405036
> 
> 
> Ship 3901, in waters of Xisha Islands
> View attachment 405037



Wow aren't those ships a bit of a overkill for a force like the Coast Guard ? And is that a 76mm turret ?

But well anyway, if the rumors are true, our countries are about to have another water fight with each other sooner or later, do keep us inform about that if it does happen


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## Viva_Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Wow aren't those ships a bit of a overkill for a force like the Coast Guard ? And is that a 76mm turret ?
> 
> But well anyway, if the rumors are true, our countries are about to have another water fight with each other sooner or later, do keep us inform about that if it does happen


BBC news just said thats "based on DWNews on 07, Jun , 2 Vnese fishing boats messing around a Cnese oil rig "







https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/singapore-government-eyes-new-laws-to-combat-fake-news.502605/


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## Viet

Better than nothing. the two new patrol boats, 270 tons, 19 knots, powered by 2 Japanese made ship engines, Aluminium cabin.

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## Viet

*Coming home*

Da Nang International Airport, June 18. The remains of two fallen US soldiers were handed over to the US army. 1,200 US soldiers are still missing.





Irony of history. Da nang beach also was the place, where the first US Marines landed in Vietnam.

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## yugocrosrb95

They grind and stroke each other, its love afterall and we should not judge them.

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## frequency

initial_d_mk2 said:


> Let them be, they are living in their own fantasy, their parent inhale too much agent orange that makes them a bit "special" if you know what i mean lols...... You know, i have to admit that vietnamese are number one in south east asia, number one in delusional and bullshiting.....



Jealous?


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## The Eagle

@TenLua if you have any issue w.r.t moderation or your deleted posts etc, you are most welcome at GHQ section to discuss but use of inappropriate language is not allowed at all. Rather than insulting and abusing, adopt proper procedure or way for redressal of such matter.

Rest about other member violating rules, use report button against such posts/members and move on without quoting back or doing so in return that Mods will take care. 

Regards,


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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> Actually US$1.843 billion (DDG 114–116, FY2011/12)
> Easy 2 billion now.



Actually, it's cost 2.1 billions for Flight IIA and 2.4 for Flight III 

It's actually not really that expensive, the HMAS Hobart (Hobart Class) cost USD 3 billions each. Modern Destroyer is mighty expensive...



Aqsuperman said:


> Funny for a Indonesian to come here and criticize VPA anti-aircraft system while the Indonesia military only operate MANPADS on truck and same Soviet - era auto-cannon (or Chinese copies that blow their troop up), not even a single dedicate medium range AA missile system. North Korea may as well fire away their missiles into Indonesia butt and you all will just take it with joy
> 
> But well let return to the topic of the thread. The most difficult task of each live ammo exercise of the VPA is not in the the exercise itself, its the preparation that take up most of the time. Most important one are unloading and loading the ammunition, this is to make sure that they dont just blow up in the soldier face.



You really shouldn't smoke next to a pile of ammo

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> Actually, it's cost 2.1 billions for Flight IIA and 2.4 for Flight III
> 
> It's actually not really that expensive, the HMAS Hobart (Hobart Class) cost USD 3 billions each. Modern Destroyer is mighty expensive...



You are right, just 3 billion, ahh...... little money. Oh could you please transfer me a few millions? I need some pocket money for the weekend; thanks bro. 

Now seriously, the Hobart class is the Spanish F-100 class Álvaro de Bazán. I understand that building under license will be more expensive, some of the modules of the ship are made in Spain and have to be transported to Australia and that's also more expensive. There is also some customization for the Australian requirements, etc, etc, but the last destroyer of the class that was built in Spain for the Spanish Navy had a cost of $1 billion, the ship entered service in 2012. So going from 1 to 3 billion, that's a mighty difference. Any idea what made it so expensive?


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> You are right, just 3 billion, ahh...... little money. Oh could you please transfer me a few millions? I need some pocket money for the weekend; thanks bro.
> 
> Now seriously, the Hobart class is the Spanish F-100 class Álvaro de Bazán. I understand that building under license will be more expensive, some of the modules of the ship are made in Spain and have to be transported to Australia and that's also more expensive. There is also some customization for the Australian requirements, etc, etc, but the last destroyer of the class that was built in Spain for the Spanish Navy had a cost of $1 billion, the ship entered service in 2012. So going from 1 to 3 billion, that's a mighty difference. Any idea what made it so expensive?



Australian boats utilizing local shipbuilder workers extensively, in which notoriously very expensive at hours/wages compared with even their Spanish counterparts. Not to mention the Australian extensively upgrading their Yards as part of the acqutition deals


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Australian boats utilizing local shipbuilder workers extensively, in which notoriously very expensive at hours/wages compared with even their Spanish counterparts. Not to mention the Australian extensively upgrading their Yards as part of the acqutition deals



Yes, I know Australian shipyards are quite expensive, that was quite an issue during the selection of the submarines, even the Australian prime minister initially wanted the subs to be foreign built because of that reason but in the end had to back down because of pressure from the workers unions and public opinion that wanted something made in Australia, but............. hell, with a difference of almost 2 billion per destroyer, lets say just 1.5 billion, multiply for 3 destroyers and you have a total difference of 4.5 billion usd. Vietnam & Indonesia can build a whole navy with that money. Oh well, Australia is a wealthy country, they can afford it.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Yes, I know Australian shipyards are quite expensive, that was quite an issue during the selection of the submarines, even the Australian prime minister initially wanted the subs to be foreign built because of that reason but in the end had to back down because of pressure from the workers unions and public opinion that wanted something made in Australia, but............. hell, with a difference of almost 2 billion per destroyer, lets say just 1.5 billion, multiply for 3 destroyers and you have a total difference of 4.5 billion usd. Vietnam & Indonesia can build a whole navy with that money. Oh well, Australia is a wealthy country, they can afford it.



their choice, their money, but looking at the thing they had right now they got the most potent surface fleets in ASEAN/OCEANIA region, 2 Canberra Class LHD, 3 AWD Hobart class destroyer, 8 upgraded Anzac class Frigates and 6 Adelaide class Frigate with Six Collins class. Seemed impressive even compared among other commonwealth Countries they are the second largest after Royal Navy (excluding India Navy).

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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> You are right, just 3 billion, ahh...... little money. Oh could you please transfer me a few millions? I need some pocket money for the weekend; thanks bro.
> 
> Now seriously, the Hobart class is the Spanish F-100 class Álvaro de Bazán. I understand that building under license will be more expensive, some of the modules of the ship are made in Spain and have to be transported to Australia and that's also more expensive. There is also some customization for the Australian requirements, etc, etc, but the last destroyer of the class that was built in Spain for the Spanish Navy had a cost of $1 billion, the ship entered service in 2012. So going from 1 to 3 billion, that's a mighty difference. Any idea what made it so expensive?



Hobarts was based on F105, but it is bigger, heavier and longer, although the armament system does not change aside from Hobart is designed to fire SM-6 and SM-3 while F105 is designed to fire SM-2 only.

There are several changes from F105, including a fully functioning ECM AA/AS package. And also automation upgrade so that Hobart only take 2/3 of F105 crew (180 on Hobart, 250 on F105) even tho Hobart is 1000 tons heavier and bigger.

Other different Is that Hobart is redesign from F105, meaning the Australian have to pay license fee to Spanish Government for Hull Design and US for system licenses (AEGIS System) which mean they are more expensive per ship.

Overall cost is more expensive too as @madokafc point out we have a shit MFU (Manufacture Union) and they sort of suck a lot of money in a lot of small area, also the rest of the money is investment for ASC ship yard to make other ship, such as the SEA 4000 submarine replacement, Future Patrol Boat and SEA5000 Frigate project.

A few years ago, we had a serious discussion on whether or not just buy these from Spain, which they offered to build them for us for 6.5 billions (for 3 destroyer) and the American offered to build us 3 Flight IIA for 7 billions...but we rejected both offer...



madokafc said:


> Australian boats utilizing local shipbuilder workers extensively, in which notoriously very expensive at hours/wages compared with even their Spanish counterparts. Not to mention the Australian extensively upgrading their Yards as part of the acqutition deals



Yeah, our wages are notoriously expensive (Well, some of them are) and the Union in Australia have been trying everything they can to squeeze every last dime for manufacturer job in here, that's the reason why we had a big hit on losing Manufacture job overseas (a lot of those moved to Indonesia actually, you may aware)

But yes, our wages is about 60% more than average Spanish ship builder. But the difference is, our builder ain't gonna build shit but sit on their arse with the butt crack showing....

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> their choice, their money, but looking at the thing they had right now they got the most potent surface fleets in ASEAN/OCEANIA region, 2 Canberra Class LHD, 3 AWD Hobart class destroyer, 8 upgraded Anzac class Frigates and 6 Adelaide class Frigate with Six Collins class. Seemed impressive even compared among other commonwealth Countries they are the second largest after Royal Navy (excluding India Navy).



Sure, of course and when counting the upcoming 12 subs, its even more impressive.

Also, the Australian shipyard is not just expensive because of high salaries, but also because they are quite inefficient and sometimes even negligent. During the building of the Camberra carrier which is also an Spanish design built under license from Navantia, I remember reading an Spanish article about how pissed off Navantia was with the Australian shipyard because of a lot of mistakes and bad workmanship during the building of the carrier, at one point there was a pretty serious building mistake that ended up costing more than $200 million to fix and caused a big delay in the construction and that caused Navantia to lose a lot of money. They were very critical of the shipyard workers and management.

Here is a link that talks about the construction problems and its easy to see how things got very expensive, but not only that, the low building quality also affects the quality of the ship.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s/news-story/997fc198353773189376391c78fdffde



jhungary said:


> Hobarts was based on F105, but it is bigger, heavier and longer, although the armament system does not change aside from Hobart is designed to fire SM-6 and SM-3 while F105 is designed to fire SM-2 only.
> 
> There are several changes from F105, including a fully functioning ECM AA/AS package. And also automation upgrade so that Hobart only take 2/3 of F105 crew (180 on Hobart, 250 on F105) even tho Hobart is 1000 tons heavier and bigger.
> 
> Other different Is that Hobart is redesign from F105, meaning the Australian have to pay license fee to Spanish Government for Hull Design and US for system licenses (AEGIS System) which mean they are more expensive per ship.
> 
> Overall cost is more expensive too as @madokafc point out we have a shit MFU (Manufacture Union) and they sort of suck a lot of money in a lot of small area, also the rest of the money is investment for ASC ship yard to make other ship, such as the SEA 4000 submarine replacement, Future Patrol Boat and SEA5000 Frigate project.
> 
> A few years ago, we had a serious discussion on whether or not just buy these from Spain, which they offered to build them for us for 6.5 billions (for 3 destroyer) and the American offered to build us 3 Flight IIA for 7 billions...but we rejected both offer...
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, our wages are notoriously expensive (Well, some of them are) and the Union in Australia have been trying everything they can to squeeze every last dime for manufacturer job in here, that's the reason why we had a big hit on losing Manufacture job overseas (a lot of those moved to Indonesia actually, you may aware)
> 
> But yes, our wages is about 60% more than average Spanish ship builder. But the difference is, our builder ain't gonna build shit but sit on their arse with the butt crack showing....



I posted without updating the page, I didn't see your post. Quite a bit of customization.

Yes, the problem is also the shipyard union, they are port queens that do crappy work at high cost and they have the benefit of being a monopoly so they have the government trapped.


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## Tolkien

Vietnam needs a LHD.

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## Carlosa

Tolkien said:


> Vietnam needs a LHD.



Yes, the Japanese ones are quite good and not very expensive. Japan could offer those with favorable credit terms as they often do. Osumi class:

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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> Sure, of course and when counting the upcoming 12 subs, its even more impressive.
> 
> Also, the Australian shipyard is not just expensive because of high salaries, but also because they are quite inefficient and sometimes even negligent. During the building of the Camberra carrier which is also an Spanish design built under license from Navantia, I remember reading an Spanish article about how pissed off Navantia was with the Australian shipyard because of a lot of mistakes and bad workmanship during the building of the carrier, at one point there was a pretty serious building mistake that ended up costing more than $200 million to fix and caused a big delay in the construction and that caused Navantia to lose a lot of money. They were very critical of the shipyard workers and management.
> 
> Here is a link that talks about the construction problems and its easy to see how things got very expensive, but not only that, the low building quality also affects the quality of the ship.
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s/news-story/997fc198353773189376391c78fdffde
> 
> 
> 
> I posted without updating the page, I didn't see your post. Quite a bit of customization.
> 
> Yes, the problem is also the shipyard union, they are port queens that do crappy work at high cost and they have the benefit of being a monopoly so they have the government trapped.



lol, we actually blamed BAe yard for the wrong block on the ship and the delay, but well, not going to argue with you, our worker is crap....

Those are the union who hire apprentice and pass out to the government like they hire a full time fully qualified ship builder, and then bill the government full bill for the job....Hence earning twice the amount they paid....

Anyway, these are the things from the pass, we area actually investing a lot in ASC and Austal, the latter is actually trying to establish themselves as the permier ship builder in South East Asia, riding on Austal USA success.

Here is an article about Austal and Vietnam ship yard cooperation in 2013, maybe we can see some LCS serving the Vietnamese Navy later (Yes, Austal own the design of LCS..)

https://vietnamshipbuildingnews.com...-pacific-region-cam-ranh-shipyard-in-vietnam/

*Austal Announces New Strategic Partnerships with Shipyards in Asia-Pacific Region ( Cam Ranh shipyard in Vietnam )*
Posted on May 14, 2013 by vietnamshipbuildingnews
*Austal continues to demonstrate its commitment to enhancing its support offering to the United States Navy and other navies active in the Asia-Pacific region, announcing new strategic partnerships with regional shipyards at the IMDEX Asia defence exhibition in Singapore this week.*

Following on from the strategic partnership with Singapore’s Sembawang Shipyard Pte Ltd announced in January 2013, Austal has now secured similar agreements with Unithai Shipyard and Engineering in Thailand and Cam Ranh Shipyard in Vietnam.

*Austal Chief Executive Officer Andrew Bellamy* stated: _“We are very proud to have partnered with such reputable shipyards and we look forward to building mutually beneficial relationships to support the defence and commercial vessels in the region._

_“In particular, we are focussed on developing a comprehensive capability tailored to support the requirements of the US Navy’s fleet of Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) and Joint High Speed Vessels (JHSV), both of which are expected to operate in the region,”_ he said, noting that the first LCS recently deployed to the region.

Austal is currently contracted to build ten 103 metre JHSVs under a US$1.6 billion contract and eight 127 metre Independence-variant LCSs, six of which are a part of a 10-ship US$3.5 billion contract. Austal has already delivered one LCS and one JHSV.

_“We have our own people and facilities in the western and northern Australia, as well as in the Philippines, and we are now well down the road of expanding our support capability both geographically and in terms of facilities and manpower,”_ Mr Bellamy said.

_“Aligning with these capable shipyards is an efficient and effective way of rapidly expanding the area and customer base to which we can make our specialist capabilities available.”_

*Unithai MOU provides US Navy with quality Thai option*

Austal’s Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Unithai Shipyard and Engineering, Thailand’s premier shipyard, strengthens the companies’ cooperation and collaboration in sharing expertise and providing high-quality ship repair services to support defence and commercial vessels operating in the Asia-Pacific region.

Based on the MOU, Unithai Shipyard will be Austal’s preferred repair shipyard for US-owned commercial and defence vessels, such as the LCSs and JHSVs, that require repairs when operating near Thailand.

_“We recognise that Unithai Shipyard is one of largest integrated ship repair facilities in Thailand , with a world-class reputation based on its commitment to high standards covering health, safety and the environment, timely delivery, superior customer service and innovative solutions,”_ said Andrew Bellamy.

_“In particular, it has a track record as one of the world’s leading shipyards specialising in the repair, conversion and maintenance of commercial, defence and auxiliary vessels. We believe Unithai Shipyard provides high quality professional services that can meet our customers’ expectations.”_

*Unithai Shipyard’s Managing Director, Teerapon Udomkanjananan* said: _“The MOU is not only a significant milestone allowing Unithai Shipyard to step forward and exchange experience and expertise with a globally reputable defence prime contractor and shipbuilder, but it is also essential to promoting the shipyard industry in Thailand._

_“Unithai Shipyard is strongly committed to delivering the best-quality service in the entire range of ship repair projects referred by Austal.”_

*Vietnamese shipyard has MSC track record*

In Vietnam, Austal has signed an MOU with Cam Ranh Shipyard. The modern shipyard is strategically located in one of the best deep water harbours in the world, approximately equal distances from Hong Kong, Manila and Singapore.

_“Cam Ranh Shipyard has already carried out work on multiple Military Sealift Command ships, which demonstrates it has the ability to undertake repair and maintenance to MSC requirements effectively and cost-efficiently,”_ Mr Bellamy said.

_“Our expertise with high speed craft such as the LCSs and MSC-operated JHSVs will enable Cam Ranh Shipyard to expand on its existing activities, and Austal to provide better support ships operating in or transiting through the western part of the South China Sea,”_ he said.

Established in 2005, Cam Ranh Shipyard first performed maintenance on an MSC ship, the dry cargo/ammunition ship USNS Richard E. Byrd, in March 2010. That work was undertaken in Van Phong Bay but the following year the ship spent seven days at the shipyard for routine maintenance and repairs – the first visit by a US Navy ship to Cam Ranh Bay in more than three decades.

Further history was made in June 2012 when then US Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, visited the ship while it was again in Cam Ranh Bay for maintenance. Panetta was the first defense secretary and the highest-ranking US official to visit the Vietnamese port since the end of the Vietnam War in 1975.

The MOU was signed by Mr Bui Huu Sy, Chairman of Cam Ranh Shipyard, and Mr Mike Little, who is Austal’s Singapore-based Regional Service Manager for the Asia-Pacific region.

Cam Ranh Shipyard is one of 26 shipyards within the Vietnam Shipbuilding Industry Group (Vinashin), which is majority-owned by the Vietnamese Government. Recognising the importance of the new agreement, the signing was also attended by Vinashin’s Chief Executive Officer, Mr Truong Van Tuyen, and Vice President, Mr Nguyen Quoc Anh.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> lol, we actually blamed BAe yard for the wrong block on the ship and the delay, but well, not going to argue with you, our worker is crap....
> 
> Those are the union who hire apprentice and pass out to the government like they hire a full time fully qualified ship builder, and then bill the government full bill for the job....Hence earning twice the amount they paid....
> 
> Anyway, these are the things from the pass, we area actually investing a lot in ASC and Austal, the latter is actually trying to establish themselves as the permier ship builder in South East Asia, riding on Austal USA success.
> 
> Here is an article about Austal and Vietnam ship yard cooperation in 2013, maybe we can see some LCS serving the Vietnamese Navy later (Yes, Austal own the design of LCS..)
> 
> https://vietnamshipbuildingnews.com...-pacific-region-cam-ranh-shipyard-in-vietnam/
> 
> *Austal Announces New Strategic Partnerships with Shipyards in Asia-Pacific Region ( Cam Ranh shipyard in Vietnam )*
> Posted on May 14, 2013 by vietnamshipbuildingnews
> *Austal continues to demonstrate its commitment to enhancing its support offering to the United States Navy and other navies active in the Asia-Pacific region, announcing new strategic partnerships with regional shipyards at the IMDEX Asia defence exhibition in Singapore this week.*
> 
> Following on from the strategic partnership with Singapore’s Sembawang Shipyard Pte Ltd announced in January 2013, Austal has now secured similar agreements with Unithai Shipyard and Engineering in Thailand and Cam Ranh Shipyard in Vietnam.
> 
> *Austal Chief Executive Officer Andrew Bellamy* stated: _“We are very proud to have partnered with such reputable shipyards and we look forward to building mutually beneficial relationships to support the defence and commercial vessels in the region._
> 
> _“In particular, we are focussed on developing a comprehensive capability tailored to support the requirements of the US Navy’s fleet of Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) and Joint High Speed Vessels (JHSV), both of which are expected to operate in the region,”_ he said, noting that the first LCS recently deployed to the region.
> 
> Austal is currently contracted to build ten 103 metre JHSVs under a US$1.6 billion contract and eight 127 metre Independence-variant LCSs, six of which are a part of a 10-ship US$3.5 billion contract. Austal has already delivered one LCS and one JHSV.
> 
> _“We have our own people and facilities in the western and northern Australia, as well as in the Philippines, and we are now well down the road of expanding our support capability both geographically and in terms of facilities and manpower,”_ Mr Bellamy said.
> 
> _“Aligning with these capable shipyards is an efficient and effective way of rapidly expanding the area and customer base to which we can make our specialist capabilities available.”_
> 
> *Unithai MOU provides US Navy with quality Thai option*
> 
> Austal’s Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Unithai Shipyard and Engineering, Thailand’s premier shipyard, strengthens the companies’ cooperation and collaboration in sharing expertise and providing high-quality ship repair services to support defence and commercial vessels operating in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> Based on the MOU, Unithai Shipyard will be Austal’s preferred repair shipyard for US-owned commercial and defence vessels, such as the LCSs and JHSVs, that require repairs when operating near Thailand.
> 
> _“We recognise that Unithai Shipyard is one of largest integrated ship repair facilities in Thailand , with a world-class reputation based on its commitment to high standards covering health, safety and the environment, timely delivery, superior customer service and innovative solutions,”_ said Andrew Bellamy.
> 
> _“In particular, it has a track record as one of the world’s leading shipyards specialising in the repair, conversion and maintenance of commercial, defence and auxiliary vessels. We believe Unithai Shipyard provides high quality professional services that can meet our customers’ expectations.”_
> 
> *Unithai Shipyard’s Managing Director, Teerapon Udomkanjananan* said: _“The MOU is not only a significant milestone allowing Unithai Shipyard to step forward and exchange experience and expertise with a globally reputable defence prime contractor and shipbuilder, but it is also essential to promoting the shipyard industry in Thailand._
> 
> _“Unithai Shipyard is strongly committed to delivering the best-quality service in the entire range of ship repair projects referred by Austal.”_
> 
> *Vietnamese shipyard has MSC track record*
> 
> In Vietnam, Austal has signed an MOU with Cam Ranh Shipyard. The modern shipyard is strategically located in one of the best deep water harbours in the world, approximately equal distances from Hong Kong, Manila and Singapore.
> 
> _“Cam Ranh Shipyard has already carried out work on multiple Military Sealift Command ships, which demonstrates it has the ability to undertake repair and maintenance to MSC requirements effectively and cost-efficiently,”_ Mr Bellamy said.
> 
> _“Our expertise with high speed craft such as the LCSs and MSC-operated JHSVs will enable Cam Ranh Shipyard to expand on its existing activities, and Austal to provide better support ships operating in or transiting through the western part of the South China Sea,”_ he said.
> 
> Established in 2005, Cam Ranh Shipyard first performed maintenance on an MSC ship, the dry cargo/ammunition ship USNS Richard E. Byrd, in March 2010. That work was undertaken in Van Phong Bay but the following year the ship spent seven days at the shipyard for routine maintenance and repairs – the first visit by a US Navy ship to Cam Ranh Bay in more than three decades.
> 
> Further history was made in June 2012 when then US Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, visited the ship while it was again in Cam Ranh Bay for maintenance. Panetta was the first defense secretary and the highest-ranking US official to visit the Vietnamese port since the end of the Vietnam War in 1975.
> 
> The MOU was signed by Mr Bui Huu Sy, Chairman of Cam Ranh Shipyard, and Mr Mike Little, who is Austal’s Singapore-based Regional Service Manager for the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> Cam Ranh Shipyard is one of 26 shipyards within the Vietnam Shipbuilding Industry Group (Vinashin), which is majority-owned by the Vietnamese Government. Recognising the importance of the new agreement, the signing was also attended by Vinashin’s Chief Executive Officer, Mr Truong Van Tuyen, and Vice President, Mr Nguyen Quoc Anh.



It would be nice to get an LCS for Vietnam although I think its a bit expensive for Vietnam, but a fast ship like that would be quite nice for patrolling the SCS.



jhungary said:


> lol, we actually blamed BAe yard for the wrong block on the ship and the delay, but well, not going to argue with you, our worker is crap....
> 
> Those are the union who hire apprentice and pass out to the government like they hire a full time fully qualified ship builder, and then bill the government full bill for the job....Hence earning twice the amount they paid....



Not trying to argue or to be offensive to Australia, just talking about the unions, they are a pain to deal with everywhere. When living in USA sometimes I had to deal with the teamsters union. oh man, they are a totally glorified, arrogant ***..holes that got you in their hands and suck every bit of blood out of you and there is nothing that you can do about it. They are definitely responsible for a lot of jobs leaving USA, Australia, etc. They don't believe in a fair win win type of relationship, everything has to be their way. Oh well.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Sure, of course and when counting the upcoming 12 subs, its even more impressive.
> 
> Also, the Australian shipyard is not just expensive because of high salaries, but also because they are quite inefficient and sometimes even negligent. During the building of the Camberra carrier which is also an Spanish design built under license from Navantia, I remember reading an Spanish article about how pissed off Navantia was with the Australian shipyard because of a lot of mistakes and bad workmanship during the building of the carrier, at one point there was a pretty serious building mistake that ended up costing more than $200 million to fix and caused a big delay in the construction and that caused Navantia to lose a lot of money. They were very critical of the shipyard workers and management.
> 
> Here is a link that talks about the construction problems and its easy to see how things got very expensive, but not only that, the low building quality also affects the quality of the ship.
> http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...s/news-story/997fc198353773189376391c78fdffde
> 
> 
> 
> I posted without updating the page, I didn't see your post. Quite a bit of customization.
> 
> Yes, the problem is also the shipyard union, they are port queens that do crappy work at high cost and they have the benefit of being a monopoly so they have the government trapped.



well thats true, Australian got lot of problems with their made in Australia policy. If its Vietnam or Indonesia, i will be damned sure Hobart class prices can drop till 60 percent of their current price tag. 

Actually, Indonesia is in the process of designing new AAW destroyer in cooperation with Denmark/Danish odense Maritims tech based on their Iver Huitfeld Class project. And the proposed price tag to be built in Indonesia is around 780 million. The program is similar with Indonesia Damen cooperation on Sigma class

Danish naval defence solutions introduced to Indonesia
by Joakim Persson, Managing Editor ScandAsia • May 21, 2017

On 18 – 19 May 2017 Denmark’s Rear Admiral Frank Trojahn, visited Indonesia together with a delegation of Danish companies within the naval sector.

On the agenda was a meeting with the Chief of Staff of the Indonesian Navy, Admiral Ade Supandi, who visited Denmark in October last year. This was followed by a small seminar, where the Danish companies had the chance to do presentations of Danish naval defence solutions.

Rear Admiral Trojahn and the Danish companies also met with the Indonesian Coastguard BAKAMLA and presented multi-purpose maritime solutions to the Indonesian needs.

On the second day the delegation went to Surabaya, the capital of East Java and an important seaport and centre of commerce for the eastern part of Indonesia. Here, the Chief of Naval Staff and the accompanying Danish companies visited the headquarters of the Eastern Indonesian Fleet and had lunch with representatives from the Surabaya administration office and maritime stakeholders, including the National Naval Design Centre.

After the lunch, *the Danish company Odense Maritime Technology (OMT) signed a MoU with the Indonesian National Naval Design Centre on cooperation in naval ship designing.*

In the afternoon, the delegation visited the PT PAL naval vessels shipyard. It was a great occasion for the Danish companies to see Indonesian naval defence facilities and present Danish naval technologies and solutions.

Source: Embassy of Denmark, Jakarta

http://scandasia.com/danish-naval-de...-to-indonesia/

i must be damned sure if Vietnam can producing heavier warship with much cheaper price tag than what Russian built offered as long as it built in Vietnam

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> well thats true, Australian got lot of problems with their made in Australia policy. If its Vietnam or Indonesia, i will be damned sure Hobart class prices can drop till 60 percent of their current price tag.
> 
> Actually, Indonesia is in the process of designing new AAW destroyer in cooperation with Denmark/Danish odense Maritims tech based on their Iver Huitfeld Class project. And the proposed price tag to be built in Indonesia is around 780 million. The program is similar with Indonesia Damen cooperation on Sigma class
> 
> Danish naval defence solutions introduced to Indonesia
> by Joakim Persson, Managing Editor ScandAsia • May 21, 2017
> 
> On 18 – 19 May 2017 Denmark’s Rear Admiral Frank Trojahn, visited Indonesia together with a delegation of Danish companies within the naval sector.
> 
> On the agenda was a meeting with the Chief of Staff of the Indonesian Navy, Admiral Ade Supandi, who visited Denmark in October last year. This was followed by a small seminar, where the Danish companies had the chance to do presentations of Danish naval defence solutions.
> 
> Rear Admiral Trojahn and the Danish companies also met with the Indonesian Coastguard BAKAMLA and presented multi-purpose maritime solutions to the Indonesian needs.
> 
> On the second day the delegation went to Surabaya, the capital of East Java and an important seaport and centre of commerce for the eastern part of Indonesia. Here, the Chief of Naval Staff and the accompanying Danish companies visited the headquarters of the Eastern Indonesian Fleet and had lunch with representatives from the Surabaya administration office and maritime stakeholders, including the National Naval Design Centre.
> 
> After the lunch, *the Danish company Odense Maritime Technology (OMT) signed a MoU with the Indonesian National Naval Design Centre on cooperation in naval ship designing.*
> 
> In the afternoon, the delegation visited the PT PAL naval vessels shipyard. It was a great occasion for the Danish companies to see Indonesian naval defence facilities and present Danish naval technologies and solutions.
> 
> Source: Embassy of Denmark, Jakarta
> 
> http://scandasia.com/danish-naval-de...-to-indonesia/
> 
> i must be damned sure if Vietnam can producing heavier warship with much cheaper price tag than what Russian built offered as long as it built in Vietnam



The Iver Huitfeldt class is a nice ship and a price tag of 780 million is very reasonable for a ship like that and is in line with the prices of similar European frigate / light destroyers like that. That price tag is the starter price tag for such ships in Europe. Indonesia worked out a good deal there.


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## Viet

I almost forgot to post the news of the day

PLA strongman General Fan Changlong, also acting as vice chairman of China's Central Military Commission (the body that controls and commands the Chinese armed forces) on a surprise visit to Hanoi June 19. Nothing is revealed aside of typical rhetoric, but one can guess he wants to deliver a warning to Vietnam.

the Chinese communist comrades aren't amused by recent Vietnam activities: one is Phuc government's recent visits to Washington and Tokyo. Rapprochement to China's arch enemies. The other activity is mostly unknown for some: Vietnam develops a copy of China silkroad, ok a small copy due to smaller ambition and smaller budget, called "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle", a plan to connect Vietnam to Indochinese mainland to Burma and at later stage to India and beyond. By land and sea. The Chinese should be more relaxed. A little competition can be very healthy.

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## Viet

Reports surface Vietnam successfully reverse engineer S75 AA missile. More details may follow.






Not the dream of an expedition army: return of soldiers in a coffin. Although the Vietnam war ends decades ago, the US continues spending endless money and efforts to search soldiers missing in action MIA. Dead or alive. All should return home.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Reports surface Vietnam successfully reverse engineer S75 AA missile. More details may follow.
> 
> View attachment 405362



It seems to me that it would not be difficult to reverse engineer the S75 since the original tech is quite old and the recent upgrade was done in Vietnam. I'm sure Viettel would be able to handle the tech without issues, but the key would be to be able to produce all the critical components in Vietnam, that's the only part that I'm not sure about.



Viet said:


> I almost forgot to post the news of the day
> 
> PLA strongman General Fan Changlong, also acting as vice chairman of China's Central Military Commission (the body that controls and commands the Chinese armed forces) on a surprise visit to Hanoi June 19. Nothing is revealed aside of typical rhetoric, but one can guess he wants to deliver a warning to Vietnam.
> 
> the Chinese communist comrades aren't amused by recent Vietnam activities: one is Phuc government's recent visits to Washington and Tokyo. Rapprochement to China's arch enemies. The other activity is mostly unknown for some: Vietnam develops a copy of China silkroad, ok a small copy due to smaller ambition and smaller budget, called "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle", a plan to connect Vietnam to Indochinese mainland to Burma and at later stage to India and beyond. By land and sea. The Chinese should be more relaxed. A little competition can be very healthy.
> 
> View attachment 405357



After PH capitulated to China, VN is the only one in the region that is not backing down and has some options with outsiders if things get hot so the chinese are trying to bring VN into line. There is obviously more going on than what we know.

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## Viet

The 3-day Vietnam/Russia summit is scheduled from June 26 to 28. Besides military cooperation, it is expected, Vietnam will press Russia to quickly set up auto and truck assembly plants in Vietnam. Vladimir Putin has promised the move previously as part of technology transfer.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, the Japanese ones are quite good and not very expensive. Japan could offer those with favorable credit terms as they often do. Osumi class:
> 
> View attachment 405337


yes the japanese should drop all hesitations. that little boat is nice. can we have 2 pieces for a start please? although I believe a delivery of carriers to VN will drive someone more crazy.

*China Cancels Military Meeting With Vietnam*
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/world/asia/china-vietnam-south-china-sea.html

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> yes the japanese should drop all hesitations. that little boat is nice. can we have 2 pieces for a start please? although I believe a delivery of carriers to VN will drive someone more crazy.
> 
> *China Cancels Military Meeting With Vietnam*
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/world/asia/china-vietnam-south-china-sea.html



Very good article, Its clear now that there is quite a bit of tension going on. The PM's trip to USA and Japan probably created more results than what has been published. We can expect more water games soon.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Very good article, Its clear now that there is quite a bit of tension going on. The PM's trip to USA and Japan probably created more results than what has been published. We can expect more water games soon.


Plus some economic pains. They stop buying pigs and pork. That is not a small issue. I wonder what they plan next.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Plus some economic pains. They stop buying pigs and pork. That is not a small issue. I wonder what they plan next.



I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

Well, this is a lesson for countries that think they can be cozy cozy with China and maintain their independence. Once they hook you with economic incentives you become dependent on them and they got you by the balls. At the moment you disagree with something, they turn the screws on you and make you feel the pain.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
> 
> Well, this is a lesson for countries that think they can be cozy cozy with China and maintain their independence. Once they hook you with economic incentives you become dependent on them and they got you by the balls. At the moment you disagree with something, they turn the screws on you and make you feel the pain.


I think we must develop some plans under the table, just in case. Media say our PLA man Fan Changlong seems very angry as he left a meeting early, cancelling all military meetings, returning home red faced. He might have become outraged, when his Vietnamese communist comrades revealed, Vietnam plans to counter the future Chinese underwater monitoring system. a Sosus variant. What does Changlong expect? We shouldn't do anything, making the Chinese easy to detect our submarines?

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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> It would be nice to get an LCS for Vietnam although I think its a bit expensive for Vietnam, but a fast ship like that would be quite nice for patrolling the SCS.
> 
> 
> 
> Not trying to argue or to be offensive to Australia, just talking about the unions, they are a pain to deal with everywhere. When living in USA sometimes I had to deal with the teamsters union. oh man, they are a totally glorified, arrogant ***..holes that got you in their hands and suck every bit of blood out of you and there is nothing that you can do about it. They are definitely responsible for a lot of jobs leaving USA, Australia, etc. They don't believe in a fair win win type of relationship, everything has to be their way. Oh well.



lol. "Not going to argue with you" is an expression, meaning I agree with your statement, our worker union is a bunch of weasel and it still does. In fact, any sort of Union in Australia is some kind of arsehole, I was taking a bus to school some months ago, and the Transport Union had organised a strike and the bus drop all of us off midway in the middle of no where and go on strike, because they think paying them $1200 a week to drive a bus is not really enough.... 

We were basically stranded in the middle of nowhere and I have to call my friend to pick me up because there weren't other bus working (all of them are on strike) and I don't have any money on me, just an opal card...

Anyway, there are chances to make LCS in Vietnam for a fraction of a price to which the US Navy pays. Even Austal Make them in the US for 360 millions a piece, Vietnam could possibly make it less than 200 millions per. Considering Vietnamese's Gepard-Class Frigate costing the Vietnam Navy 350 millions USD. IT wasn't really that expensive at all. Of course the hurdle is going to be whether or not Austal would sell you the design to begin with and the willingness of Austal to integrate it with Russian system, but, well, never say never.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> lol. "Not going to argue with you" is an expression, meaning I agree with your statement, our worker union is a bunch of weasel and it still does. In fact, any sort of Union in Australia is some kind of arsehole, I was taking a bus to school some months ago, and the Transport Union had organised a strike and the bus drop all of us off midway in the middle of no where and go on strike, because they think paying them $1200 a week to drive a bus is not really enough....
> 
> We were basically stranded in the middle of nowhere and I have to call my friend to pick me up because there weren't other bus working (all of them are on strike) and I don't have any money on me, just an opal card...
> 
> Anyway, there are chances to make LCS in Vietnam for a fraction of a price to which the US Navy pays. Even Austal Make them in the US for 360 millions a piece, Vietnam could possibly make it less than 200 millions per. Considering Vietnamese's Gepard-Class Frigate costing the Vietnam Navy 350 millions USD. IT wasn't really that expensive at all. Of course the hurdle is going to be whether or not Austal would sell you the design to begin with and the willingness of Austal to integrate it with Russian system, but, well, never say never.



Wr are in the same page man, I said that because I was not totally sure, so just to clarify.

I didn't realize that the LCS price came down so much now, it was around 700 million for the first ships. Yes, 360 is quite ok. I would say that the only issues would be kind of the same as in USA where the weapons systems are too weak and they are improving them and integrating better anti ship capability etc and I think they are moving away from the multi modular concept since that's not working out and of course having to integrate some Russian systems such as KH-35, maybe some sensors, etc.

I always felt that the whole concept of the trimaran is really nice, can't beat the speed, the fact that the ship is very wide which adds a lot of useful space, its actually very difficult to sink the ship because of the trimaran concept, etc, etc. I love the design. Oh well, we'll have to see how things develop in Vietnam, if it goes further towards the west and looking at the latest issues and tension, it may well happens. Vietnam has not done much with Australia in terms of weapons purchases but they are certainly developing a closer relationship so we'll see.



Viet said:


> I think we must develop some plans under the table, just in case. Media say our PLA man Fan Changlong seems very angry as he left a meeting early, cancelling all military meetings, returning home red faced. He might have become outraged, when his Vietnamese communist comrades revealed, Vietnam plans to counter the future Chinese underwater monitoring system. a Sosus variant. What does Changlong expect? We shouldn't do anything, making the Chinese easy to detect our submarines?
> 
> View attachment 405406



That's pretty damn serious man. I bet there are a lot of contacts now between USA and Vietnam. VN probably got some assurances from Trump and the Japanese during the PM trip so that he can maintain a strong position with China. You can also bet that the Americans are also not going to be passive about that observation network.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> yes the japanese should drop all hesitations. that little boat is nice. can we have 2 pieces for a start please? although I believe a delivery of carriers to VN will drive someone more crazy.
> 
> *China Cancels Military Meeting With Vietnam*
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/world/asia/china-vietnam-south-china-sea.html


Good news, time to prove that who is the boss of East sea (SCS) and Sub Mekong region. Laos will be on Vn side like in 1979. Mr.Hun Sen just come and pledge his loyalti to Vn again

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## GS Zhou

Modern destroyer is expensive. But 3 billion USD for one Hobart is toooo crazy. 

China's 052D destroyer is about *$520 million a unit*, that's why China could *afford to build 10 units of 052D/055 destroyers in parallel*. To my understanding, the following reasons are critical to China's cost advantage on destroyers building:
- *Support from none-military ships building:* China is world largest builder of civil ships. Building of these none-military ships helps to shoulder a large portion of the shipyard cost, like shipyard daily operation cost, wages of the workers, depreciation cost of the equipment (like yards, or cranes)
- *Fully localized:* not only the final assembly of the naval ships, but the critical sub-systems, like engines, radars, guns, CIWS, missiles, torpedo, etc., are all made by China on its own. This helps China to get rid of the exploits of the foreign defense contractors
- *SOE:* the naval ships builders (like Dalian, or JNCX), and also builders of the sub-systems, are all SOE. The China Government is extremely clear about their cost structure, so very few chance for these companies to charge "hidden profits" on its bills to PLA Navy.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> lol. "Not going to argue with you" is an expression, meaning I agree with your statement, our worker union is a bunch of weasel and it still does. In fact, any sort of Union in Australia is some kind of arsehole, I was taking a bus to school some months ago, and the Transport Union had organised a strike and the bus drop all of us off midway in the middle of no where and go on strike, because they think paying them $1200 a week to drive a bus is not really enough....
> 
> We were basically stranded in the middle of nowhere and I have to call my friend to pick me up because there weren't other bus working (all of them are on strike) and I don't have any money on me, just an opal card...
> 
> Anyway, there are chances to make LCS in Vietnam for a fraction of a price to which the US Navy pays. Even Austal Make them in the US for 360 millions a piece, Vietnam could possibly make it less than 200 millions per. Considering Vietnamese's Gepard-Class Frigate costing the Vietnam Navy 350 millions USD. IT wasn't really that expensive at all. Of course the hurdle is going to be whether or not Austal would sell you the design to begin with and the willingness of Austal to integrate it with Russian system, but, well, never say never.



It seems like Australia is the one that is a bit reluctant to take defense ties with Vietnam to the next level:

*Why aren’t Australia and Vietnam strategic partners?*
*https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/why-aren-t-australia-and-vietnam-strategic-partners
*
The election of Donald Trump as US president has increased strategic uncertainty about the leadership role of the US as the 'indispensable power' in the Indo-Pacific. One obvious conclusion is that Australia will have to redouble its defence and security engagement in the region. There are signs that this is happening with Australia’s recent engagements with Japan, Indonesia, Singapore and the Philippines.

But what about Vietnam? Why hasn’t it featured in Australia’s new outreach?

Australia has longstanding defence and security ties with Vietnam that stretch back nearly two decades. In 1998, Vietnam hosted its first strategic dialogue with Australia. The following year Australia opened a Defence Attaché's Office in Hanoi and in 2000 Vietnam reciprocated.

A decade later Vietnam pressed Australia to raise bilateral relations to the level of 'strategic partnership'. This was rejected by then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Vietnam was disappointed and in 2009 begrudgingly accepted Australia’s proposal that bilateral relations be raised to a comprehensive partnership.

The Comprehensive Partnership agreement laid the foundation for the development of defence and security cooperation. Australia and Vietnam declared that the 'security and prosperity of both countries is linked to a secure future for the Asia-Pacific region' and pledged to 'work together in regional forums to develop credible security architecture'. To this end, Australia and Vietnam pledged to exchange defence personnel, conduct joint training, host ship visits, and conduct regular dialogues on regional security issues between foreign affairs and defence officials.

In 2010 the defence ministers of Australia and Vietnam signed a Memorandum of Understanding on Defence Cooperation. The MoU extended defence engagement from reciprocal education exchanges to a limited number of practical training activities between their navies and special forces. A key component of defence cooperation has been Australia’s provision of English language instruction and specialist training for Vietnamese personnel about to deploy to the South Sudan on UN peacekeeping operations.

As a result of the MoU, Australia and Vietnam inaugurated Defence Cooperation Talks, a Strategic Dialogue involving deputy secretaries from Foreign Affairs and Defence (2012), and a Defence Ministers’ Meeting (2013), all on an annual basis.

In 2014 Vietnam once again pressed Australia unsuccessfully to raise bilateral relations to a strategic partnership level. Nonetheless, the following year, during the visit of Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, Australia and Vietnam adopted a declaration on Enhancing the Comprehensive Partnership to signal growing bilateral ties. This declaration laid out a road map for cooperation at international and regional levels, including promoting the East Asia Summit as a leader-led forum, and the centrality of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Australia and Vietnam reached a convergence of views on territorial disputes in the South China Sea. They stressed:

...the importance of maintaining peace and stability in the region, and ensuring security, safety and freedom of navigation and aviation, in accordance with international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, without resorting to the threat or use of force. Both countries call on all parties to exercise restraint and refrain from actions that could increase tensions in the region. Both countries agree on the urgent need to conclude a code of conduct for the South China Sea.

The declaration also included a section on defence ties. It stated that both parties 'will strengthen the exchange of views on regional and security issues of mutual concern by maintaining a programme of regular consultations and visits at civilian official and military levels' including the annual bilateral talks mentioned above, as well as an annual Defence 1.5 Track Dialogue. Australia and Vietnam also pledged to work together to achieve shared security goals in the ASEAN Regional Forum, ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting Plus, and the Expanded ASEAN Maritime Forum.

Bilateral defence cooperation has continued through personnel exchanges, officer training and naval ship visits. Other areas of cooperation include aviation and maritime security, peacekeeping, counter-terrorism, special forces, and war legacy issues.

Vietnam promotes a foreign policy of 'independence and self-reliance', and a defence policy that prohibits alliances and foreign bases on Vietnam's soil. In 2007, in an important development, Vietnam was the Asia Bloc’s unanimous nominee for a seat on the UN Security Council as a non-permanent member. Vietnam received the overwhelming endorsement of the UN General Assembly and served from 2008-09. Vietnam is currently seeking re-election in 2020 and is poised to deploy a field hospital to South Sudan. Vietnam has also engaged in a robust program of defence self-help involving the modernisation of its naval and air forces. In the period 2011-15, Vietnam was the eighth largest importer of arms globally.

Vietnam has reached out to negotiate eleven strategic and fifteen comprehensive partnership agreements involving all five permanent members of the UN Security Council, and other major powers such as India and Japan. Vietnam’s strategic partners are given more extensive access to its top leadership than comprehensive partners.

It is time for Australia to pick up some of the slack regionally as the Trump Administration pursues an America First policy. The time is right to advance bilateral relations to a strategic partnership level. Australia and Vietnam share convergent security views and Vietnam has the capacity to work with Australia to address maritime security issues.

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## Viet

News of the day

South Korea Hanwha Techwin plans to produce aircraft engine parts in Vietnam. Construction will start in August and the plant will be operational next year.

http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/engl...n-build-aircraft-engine-parts-factory-vietnam







Some veterans pays a visit to the Second Army, the former home unit.

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## Viet

First ever Vietnam/Japan joint coast guard exercise, with a focus on combating illegal fishing.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> News of the day
> 
> South Korea Hanwha Techwin plans to produce aircraft engine parts in Vietnam. Construction will start in August and the plant will be operational next year.
> 
> http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/engl...n-build-aircraft-engine-parts-factory-vietnam
> ]


Nice. It could be the deal btween VN-US when US need VN to contain big bad CN for her ...and more win-win deal will come soon, of course

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## Viva_Viet

*Hun Sen: "Without Vietnam there would be no Cambodia today"

During his visit to VN in 22th,Jun,2017. Mr.Hun Sen say thanks to VN's help to save Cambodian from Pol Pot 's genocide

..........Hun Sen show his loyalty to VN when VN start teaching CN another lesson after 1979. 








VN PM welcome Mr.Hun Sen in 22th,Jun,2017.
*


> Thủ tướng Hun Sen: “Nếu không có Việt Nam thì không có Campuchia ngày nay”
> Chia sẻ
> Dân trí Chiều 21/6, tại tỉnh Bình Dương, Thủ tướng Chính phủ Nguyễn Xuân Phúc đã chủ trì đón và chào mừng Thủ tướng Chính phủ Vương quốc Campuchia Hun Sen. Thủ tướng Hun Sen bảy tỏ biết ơn vì sự hy sinh mà Việt Nam đã dành cho Campuchia và khẳng định: “Nếu không có Việt Nam thì không có Campuchia ngày nay”.
> Chuyến thăm của Thủ tướng Hun Sen cùng các thành viên trong đoàn đại biểu cấp cao Chính phủ Vương quốc Campuchia tới Việt Nam nhân dịp kỷ niệm 40 năm ngày Thủ tướng Hun Sen và đồng đội bắt đầu con đường cách mạng, cứu đất nước Campuchia khỏi chế độ diệt chủng Pol Pot.
> http://dantri.com.vn/chinh-tri/thu-...g-co-campuchia-ngay-nay-20170622073245173.htm

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Modern destroyer is expensive. But 3 billion USD for one Hobart is toooo crazy.
> 
> China's 052D destroyer is about *$520 million a unit*, that's why China could *afford to build 10 units of 052D/055 destroyers in parallel*. To my understanding, the following reasons are critical to China's cost advantage on destroyers building:
> - *Support from none-military ships building:* China is world largest builder of civil ships. Building of these none-military ships helps to shoulder a large portion of the shipyard cost, like shipyard daily operation cost, wages of the workers, depreciation cost of the equipment (like yards, or cranes)
> - *Fully localized:* not only the final assembly of the naval ships, but the critical sub-systems, like engines, radars, guns, CIWS, missiles, torpedo, etc., are all made by China on its own. This helps China to get rid of the exploits of the foreign defense contractors
> - *SOE:* the naval ships builders (like Dalian, or JNCX), and also builders of the sub-systems, are all SOE. The China Government is extremely clear about their cost structure, so very few chance for these companies to charge "hidden profits" on its bills to PLA Navy.


Nice info. Good to see China makes progress, but I wonder if we can copy anything from your greatness. a Vietnamese/Chinese cooperation in building of destroyers is probably not an option. Vietnam is not Pakistan, isn't it?


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## Carlosa

*"New Tensions in Vietnam – China Relations?" by Le Hong Hiep*
2017/38, 20 June 2017 

https://www.iseas.edu.sg/medias/com...s-in-vietnam--china-relations-by-le-hong-hiep

Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission Fan Changlong paid an official visit to Vietnam from 18 to 19 June 2017. He also planned to join Vietnamese Defence Minister Ngo Xuan Lich to preside over border exchange activities between the two militaries to be held in the provinces of Lai Chau and Yunnan from 20 to 22 June. However, General Fan cut short his visit and abruptly left Vietnam on the evening of 18 June without announcing the reasons.

Since the 2014 oil rig crisis, Vietnam – China relations have improved significantly. There have been exchanges of top level visits and economic ties have been strengthened. Vietnam is also strongly supporting the China-led Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and the Belt and Road Initiative.

However, at the same time, Vietnam has intensified relations with China’s strategic rivals, the US and Japan. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc was the first ASEAN leader to visit the US under the Trump administration in late May 2017. Shortly afterwards, he paid a high-profile visit to Japan, during which deals worth more than US$22 billion were sealed.

Military cooperation initiatives between Vietnam and the two powers were highlighted in joint statements of both visits, which also stressed common positions of the three countries over the South China Sea. Washington and Tokyo have also provided Hanoi with Coast Guard vessels and patrol boats to help enhance Vietnam’s maritime capacity.

These developments have raised some eyebrows in Beijing. On 18 June 2017, the Global Times ran an op-ed condemning these diplomatic manoeuvres of Vietnam. It asserts that “Vietnam’s ambition” may “stir confrontation” and destabilize the region, and that “Vietnam's frequent talks with the US and Japan about the South China Sea should not be viewed as benign”.

Although no explanation has been offered for General Fan’s sudden departure from Vietnam, developments in Vietnam’s relations with the US and Japan may have played a role.

These developments do not bode well for bilateral relations and new tensions may be expected in the coming months.

_Dr. Le Hong Hiep is Fellow at ISEAS – Yusof Ishak Institute._ 

The facts and views expressed are solely that of the author/authors and do not necessarily reflect that of ISEAS – Yusof Ishak Institute. No part of this publication may be reproduced in any form without permission.

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> *Hun Sen: "Without Vietnam there would be no Cambodia today"
> 
> During his visit to VN in 22th,Jun,2017. Mr.Hun Sen say thanks to VN's help to save Cambodian from Pol Pot 's genocide
> 
> ..........Hun Sen show his loyalty to VN when VN start teaching CN another lesson after 1979.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VN PM welcome Mr.Hun Sen in 22th,Jun,2017.*


I think we don't need to teach anyone a lesson just make sure any aggressor to pay a price.

Ah other news. Seeing again an old friend: former US Secretary of States John Kerry. Interesting, he returns to Vietnam. I read, he offers something that Vietnam can't resist.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam, Israel form ties in space technology *

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 06/22/2017 14:34 GMT + 7






*Vietnam and Israel have signed an agreement to cooperate in the field of space technology.*

The Vietnam National Satellite Center inked a cooperative deal with the Israeli Space Agency during a conference in Hanoi on Wednesday celebrating the newly established ties.

According to the consensus, the two parties will focus on boosting their mutual collaboration in Earth observation, Earth science, space technology and industry, and satellite activities.

With previous success in launching several satellites and its newly formed ties with Israel, Vietnam is expected to attain a new stage of development in space technology. 

During the gathering, representatives of the Vietnam National Satellite Center also informed delegates that the agency will be renamed Vietnam National Space Center on July 17. 

Details of upcoming major projects and events carried out by the center were also shared at the conference, including Cansat 2017, a satellite design competition for young people, contract signings with Japanese investors in July, and the inauguration of an*observatory* in the south-central beach city of Nha Trang in August.

Information regarding Vietnam hosting the 10th GEOSS Asia-Pacific Symposium was mentioned during the conference.

The event is expected to provide a forum for researchers, engineers, and learners in the region to discuss matters relating to their fields of study.

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## Viet

Vietnam peacekeeping centers in Hanoi 









The Coast Guard

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## Viet

*Joint Institute for Nuclear Research (JINR)*

Vietnam is one of the 18-country organization that wants to build the future particle collider NICA (Nuclotron-based Ion Collider fAсility). Interesting stuff. We should provide financial and technical support to have the collider in Vietnam.











Read full text at: http://m.eng.belta.by/society/view/...chanical-parts-for-nica-collider-102615-2017/

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## Carlosa

*China stages military drills in the Paracel Islands in June 20, 22, 23 amid soaring tensions with Vietnam in the South China Sea*

From Twitter


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## Carlosa

*China, Vietnam: Military Talks Cut Short Over Disputed Waters

https://worldview.stratfor.com/arti...witter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article
*
After months spent slowly improving their relationship, China and Vietnam may be heading toward another faceoff. One June 20, China reportedly cut short a closed-door military discussion with Vietnam about the disputed South China Sea. The talks were intended to last through June 22, with officials hoping to continue mending fences since tensions spiked between the two countries in 2014 over China's deployment of a deep-sea oil rig near the disputed Paracel Islands. Despite attempts by both sides to downplay the canceled meeting, the situation between China and Vietnam in the South China Sea may escalate.

The two countries have been largely amicable toward each other during the past year. China softened its approach to dealing with the South China Sea's other claimants after a landmark ruling by the international Permanent Court of Arbitration. And Hanoi has recalibrated its approach as well, because of an uncertain regional commitment by the United States and instability in the Philippines, another vocal opponent to China's claim to the South China Sea. But neither China nor Vietnam have backed down on sovereignty claims, and they've made little progress managing disputes such as the arrangement between China and the Philippines near the Scarborough Shoal. China has continued to militarize its occupied and reclaimed areas. And Vietnam, despite being more subtle in its diplomatic maneuvers until recently, has also pursued its own island reclamation projects around the Spratly Islands, while developing defense partnerships with Chinese rivals such as the United States, Japan and India.

Vietnam's defense partnerships appear to have played a role in the cancellation of the June 20 meeting, with Chinese officials reportedly expressing displeasure at Vietnam's cooperation with the United States and Japan over the past two months. Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc visited Washington and Tokyo, meeting with President Donald Trump and making multibillion-dollar deals in Tokyo. The Tokyo visit also comes amid increased security cooperation between Japan and Vietnam, which included the transfer of Japanese coast guard and patrol vessels to Vietnam and more partnering on maritime enforcement. Hanoi's outreach fits into a long-standing strategy of partnering with external powers to counterbalance Beijing, though Vietnam has carefully avoided directly challenging its northern neighbor. But as Washington recasts its attention toward Southeast Asia, and as Japan — and to a lesser extent India and Australia — eagerly pursues a greater security presence in the area, Vietnam's regional momentum has again put it in Beijing's crosshairs. 

But the key source of contention in the June 20 meeting likely came from debates over energy exploration activities. Leading up to the meeting, Chinese military officials reportedly demanded that Vietnam abandon oil and natural gas explorations with foreign partners in the disputed areas of the South China Sea. Hanoi apparently refused the demand, leading to speculation that Beijing may once again resort to punitive measures. Energy exploration has been one of the main drivers of South China Sea tensions, because China sees any energy exploration in the disputed waters by Vietnam or the Philippines as a move to invalidate China's maritime claim. In the past, Beijing has used diplomatic pressure and maritime forces to suppress other claimants' foreign partnerships in the area. That pressure included the 2014 deployment of the deep-sea oil rig.

It's unclear what specific activities China was referring to in its most recent demand. In January, Vietnam partnered with U.S.-based ExxonMobil to develop a major natural gas project that would be close to the Paracel Islands. And Hanoi has other partnerships that are suspected to overlap with Beijing's claims, including an agreement with India's ONGC Videsh Ltd. from 2012 and the more recent involvement of Spain's Repsol. Until now, Vietnam and China appeared to have been showing restraint in the South China Sea. But as Vietnam continues to show little interest in ceasing energy exploration projects with partners other than China, it might only be a matter of time before Beijing moves against Hanoi.

*Nixed China-Vietnam Meeting Highlights Illusion of South China Sea Calm*
Incident is a warning that despite attempts to downplay the flashpoint, tensions could quickly escalate.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/nixe...-highlights-illusion-of-south-china-sea-calm/






By Prashanth Parameswaran
June 22, 2017


On Thursday, news surfaced that a China-Vietnam defense meeting had been unexpectedly canceled, reportedly due to private disagreements over the South China Sea rather than the logistical issues publicly mentioned by Chinese defense industry. If true, this would be far from surprising given the past record of saber-rattling between Beijing and Hanoi. But more broadly, it should also serve as a warning to the international community that despite Chinese attempts to downplay the South China Sea issue, Beijing’s actions could quickly help escalate tensions once again for one reason or another.

The incident itself broke out as China and Vietnam were due to hold the fourth iteration of their border defense friendship exchange program, which was scheduled to be held in both countries June 20-22. Though the lead up to the engagement had been proceeding as scheduled, with Vice Chairman of the Central Military Commission Fan Changlong meeting with high-level Vietnamese officials and both sides talking up recent advances such as an agreement inked on personnel training, on June 21 Chinese defense ministry told state media that Fan had cut short his visit and Beijing had decided to cancel the meeting due to “working arrangements.” Other news outlets quickly speculated that it could be due to disagreements over the South China Sea.

If this is true, this is far from surprising. Sino-Vietnamese saber-rattling in the South China Sea is not new. Of the four Southeast Asian claimants – which also include Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines – Vietnam has been in the South China Sea disputes the longest and has felt Chinese assertiveness the hardest, with Chinese troops seizing control of the Western Paracels from Hanoi as far back as 1974. For Vietnam, the disputes are just a slice of a centuries-old problem of managing its giant northern neighbor China, which occupied it for nearly 1,000 years from first century BC till tenth century AD.

Over the years, Vietnam has become by far the most militarily capable among the four claimants within the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and, along with the Philippines (until recently), has tended to be the most forward-leaning on the issue within the region. This is despite feeling the heat of occasional bouts of Chinese assertiveness, with a recent case in point being Beijing’s decision to place an oil rig within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the summer of 2014 which sparked a crisis in the bilateral relationship. Despite this, both sides have continued proceeding with some confidence-building measures, including in the defense realm with the annual border defense meeting.

This round of Sino-Vietnamese saber-rattling could well be the product of simmering tensions that eventually came to a head. With the weakening of the Philippines’ South China Sea position under President Rodrigo Duterte, Vietnam has essentially become the sole forward-leaning Southeast Asian claimant in the disputes (See: “The Truth About Duterte’s ASEAN South China Sea Blow”). This has naturally impressed upon Hanoi the importance of strengthening ties with countries like the United States and Japan, and that exactly what it has been doing, even though Vietnamese officials have continued to carefully calibrate that with engagements with China as well (See: “US-Vietnam Relations Under Trump in the Spotlight with Premier Visit”).

But for China, which has sought to capitalize on the loss of ASEAN momentum on the South China Sea as well as what it perceives as a distracted United States, this is an opportune moment to put pressure on individual states – whether it be Vietnam as a claimant or Singapore as the ASEAN-China country coordinator – on their specific behavior and existing alignments under the guise of lowering tensions (See: “Beware the Illusion of China-ASEAN South China Sea Breakthroughs”). And ASEAN officials say that is exactly what some Chinese officials have been doing, even issuing warnings against so-called “unconstructive actions”. Carl Thayer, a Vietnam expert, told _Radio Free Asia_ that China had also been pressuring Vietnam to stop energy exploration activities in Vanguard Bank in the South China Sea.

These contending viewpoints between Beijing and Hanoi were bound to collide at some point. Thayer noted that tensions could flare up if not properly managed, with China reportedly deploying ships and aircraft to the area which increased the possibility of a military clash. But more broadly, for the rest of the international community, this episode should also serve as another warning that despite Chinese attempts to downplay the South China Sea issue, the very actions that Beijing is taking to allegedly deescalate the situation could once again help escalate it sooner than one might expect.

This is also consistent with a broader pattern in China’s South China Sea behavior which I have termed “incremental assertiveness,” where temporary bouts of charm or signs of calm from Beijing have been followed by yet another round of coercion (See: “Will China Change its South China Sea Approach?”). In the context of Sino-Vietnam relations, it is worth recalling that just seven months after unveiling a new strategy for ASEAN-China relations as part of a charm offensive in Southeast Asia that was received with great fanfare, Beijing moved the oil rig into Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone in the summer of 2014. Though this incident is not nearly as serious as yet, it should give serious pause to those who are once again looking for the calm in the South China Sea that never quite sustains.


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## Viva_Viet

With the fast growing of our Navy- Coast guard- air force, every one can see clearly the day VN taking control of the whole East sea- sub Mekong region-Malacca strait coming so close.

Now, every one realize that we r not just joking abt sub-Mekong empire, right ??


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *China stages military drills in the Paracel Islands in June 20, 22, 23 amid soaring tensions with Vietnam in the South China Sea*
> 
> From Twitter


That is infantile and will lead to nowhere. Imagine, we do the same. Because Vietnam is displeased by Cambodia, whatever the reasons, for example because Hun Sen increases defense and economic cooperation with China, we stop buying rice from the neighbor and stage military exercise in the Gulf of Thailand. Any foreign military intimidation will inevitably provoke to a military response by Vietnam.

We are a sovereign nation that is free in the decision and not a slave nor vassal that needs a permission from Beijing when traveling to Washington and Tokyo or drilling or fishing in our waters. Really, the world has changed. Time to move on.

Some news of the day

Speculation Vietnam wants to acquire 2 squadrons of Russia advanced stealth fighter aircraft Pak Fa. I think it will remain speculation it is too early VN focus is economy, unless something gets out of control.






Vietnam appoints a new Ambassador to Bangladesh. Actually not a major news, but there are some interesting events coming up. Such as this one, Bangladesh signs an agreement to buy up to 1 million tons of rice a year from Vietnam. The first shipment of 250,000 tons will arrive the country within 15 days, informs the Ambassador during the meeting with Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina. Bangladesh probably needs more than 2 million tons rice a year to cover food shortages. Vietnam can deliver the amount without problem.






The Chairman of the Hanoi local government Nguyen Duc Chung, a strongman within the communist party with the rank of Major General, will lead a delegation for a visit to the US. A further step of US/Vietnam rapprochement.

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## Carlosa

*The Chinese position:*

*Restraint crucial for peace in S.China Sea*
Source:Global Times Published: 2017/6/22 23:28:40

Vice-Chairman of China's Central Military Commission Fan Changlong has unexpectedly cut short his trip to Vietnam. The Chinese defense ministry told the Global Times Wednesday that the Chinese side canceled a scheduled high-level border meeting with Vietnam for reasons related to working arrangements. Foreign media outlets think the cancelation may be caused by a bilateral dispute over Vietnam's oil and gas drilling in disputed areas of the South China Sea. No official statement has yet been made by the Vietnamese side. It seems the China-Vietnam relationship will continue to be disturbed by the South China Sea dispute in future.

Since Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte adjusted his country's South China Sea policy last year, the South China Sea situation has changed drastically. The dominant consensus is for countries in the region to ease relations and solve disputes through peaceful ways. The China-Vietnam relationship has also witnessed a positive momentum, with the maritime disputes between the two easing up. The situation should be cherished by both sides, as they can concentrate on domestic affairs and it is conducive to further expanding mutual beneficial cooperation. 

A relaxation in the South China Sea situation is not in the desire of external powers such as the US and Japan which seek to turn the South China Sea into a place for geopolitical competition. They are more willing to see Vietnam and the Philippines make trouble for China, creating opportunities for them to interfere. They now have attached more importance to Hanoi after Manila changed its attitude last year.

The instigation of US and Japan will create an illusion to the South China Sea claimants that China cannot launch a counterstrike without scruples even if they cross the bottom line in the South China Sea under the backing of the US and Japan. Traditionally medium- and small-sized countries seek to survive by playing a balancing act between major powers. But the tactic cannot be used to solve sensitive issues otherwise they will face high risks. 

Disputes between China and Vietnam can only be properly addressed through channels between the two countries or two parties. It must be pointed out that the economic benefits involved in the South China Sea disputes are not more than the potential economic interests a stable situation will bring to both countries. Besides, if there is a serious provocation, public opinion in either side won't allow their government to back down, meaning that countermeasures could be enacted at any cost.

China and Vietnam must avoid disputes spiraling out of control. History has shown that a showdown between two socialist countries will be particularly catastrophic as both have a strong ability to mobilize the public.

The two countries should take the advantage of their same political system to address maritime disputes. If this advantage cannot be unleashed, it may function adversely to intensify bilateral conflicts.

The US and Japan won't help Vietnam at any price in the face of a critical crisis. The interests of the big power always prevail in a game where a small and big country mutually use each other. Hanoi shouldn't mistakenly think Beijing will make concessions to it as the country is stressing stability for the upcoming 19th Communist Party of China National Congress. A framework for a South China Sea Code of Conduct has been reached and the China-Vietnam disputes should be addressed in an orderly way.

*China resolute on maritime rights *
By Zhang Hui Source:Global Times Published: 2017/6/22 22:28:39 

Recent oil exploration and fishing activities in the South China Sea by China's neighboring countries, including Vietnam, have destabilized the area and undermined China's territorial sovereignty and maritime rights, Chinese experts said Thursday.

Vietnam recently decided to resume oil exploration in the disputed waters, after it signed a multi-billion-dollar gas deal with Exxon Mobil in January, the New York Times reported Thursday.

Vietnamese state-owned oil company PetroVietnam and Exxon Mobil are expected to extract gas for electricity by 2023, and the drill site is located in the Xisha Islands, the report said. 

"Vietnam unilaterally broke its consensus with China, which involved shelving disputes and joint development, and its move is aimed at strengthening its territorial claims over the area," Liu Feng, a Hainan-based expert on the South China Sea, told the Global Times. 

"Vietnam's illegal actions undermined the stability of the South China Sea, and violated China's sovereignty and maritime rights," Liu noted. 

Other countries such as the Philippines are also eyeing the economic benefits in the area. In a speech in May, Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said that Manila intended to drill for oil in the South China Sea, Reuters reported.

These countries are emboldened by US support, as American energy companies and the US government are trying to hype the South China Sea disputes by getting involved in the issue, said Wang Haipeng, an expert on maritime and border studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. 

But bringing in companies from third-party countries would impede the settlement of disputes in the South China Sea, and will have an adverse effect on joint explorations, Liu said. 

The unilateral development of oil and gas in the South China Sea by neighboring countries have surfaced from time to time for decades. Vietnam illegally licensed out 120 oil blocks in the waters of Nansha and Xisha islands in 1994. Malaysia seized Yuya Shoal and Boji Reef in the Nansha Islands in 1999, and began exploiting oil and gas and fishing resources in surrounding waters, the Xinhua News Agency reported. 

However, tensions in the South China Sea have eased after Duterte took office in 2016, and Filipino fishermen resumed their activities in the Huangyan Island area in October 2016. 

"The de-escalation of tensions in the South China Sea will not be affected by the illegal activities of some countries, as countries like Vietnam are aware that peace and stability in the South China Sea far outweigh the economic interests they are pursuing," Wang said, adding that the consensus reached by China and ASEAN countries provides a political guarantee for the area's stability.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> That is infantile and will lead to nowhere. Imagine, we do the same. Because Vietnam is displeased by Cambodia, whatever the reasons, for example because Hun Sen increases defense and economic cooperation with China, we stop buying rice from the neighbor and stage military exercise in the Gulf of Thailand. Any foreign military intimidation will inevitably provoke to a military response by Vietnam.
> 
> We are a sovereign nation that is free in the decision and not a slave nor vassal that needs a permission from Beijing when traveling to Washington and Tokyo or drilling or fishing in our waters. Really, the world has changed. Time to move on.



Yes, it is infantile, but that's how bullies do things.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Speculation Vietnam wants to acquire 2 squadrons of Russia advanced stealth fighter aircraft Pak Fa. I think it will remain speculation it is too early VN focus is economy, unless something gets out of control.
> 
> View attachment 405815
> 
> 
> Vietnam appoints a new Ambassador to Bangladesh. Actually not a major news, but there are some interesting events coming up. Such as this one, Bangladesh signs an agreement to buy up to 1 million tons of rice a year from Vietnam. The first shipment of 250,000 tons will arrive the country within 15 days, informs the Ambassador during the meeting with Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina. Bangladesh probably needs more than 2 million tons rice a year to cover food shortages. Vietnam can deliver the amount without problem.
> 
> View attachment 405818
> 
> 
> The Chairman of the Hanoi local government Nguyen Duc Chung, a strongman within the communist party with the rank of Major General, will lead a delegation for a visit to the US. A further step of US/Vietnam rapprochement.
> 
> View attachment 405825



There is actually no speculation at all about that, just a made up (invented) article from Da Viet, both Da Viet and Soha.vn make up untrue stories all the time in order to print articles. The Russians already said that is not true, the plane is still in development and testing, nobody is talking about foreign orders and anyway, the plane has not been authorized for export and it would not be anyway until the 2020's after Russia get enough planes first.

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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> It seems like Australia is the one that is a bit reluctant to take defense ties with Vietnam to the next level:
> 
> *Why aren’t Australia and Vietnam strategic partners?*
> *https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/why-aren-t-australia-and-vietnam-strategic-partners
> *
> The election of Donald Trump as US president has increased strategic uncertainty about the leadership role of the US as the 'indispensable power' in the Indo-Pacific. One obvious conclusion is that Australia will have to redouble its defence and security engagement in the region. There are signs that this is happening with Australia’s recent engagements with Japan, Indonesia, Singapore and the Philippines.
> 
> But what about Vietnam? Why hasn’t it featured in Australia’s new outreach?
> 
> Australia has longstanding defence and security ties with Vietnam that stretch back nearly two decades. In 1998, Vietnam hosted its first strategic dialogue with Australia. The following year Australia opened a Defence Attaché's Office in Hanoi and in 2000 Vietnam reciprocated.
> 
> A decade later Vietnam pressed Australia to raise bilateral relations to the level of 'strategic partnership'. This was rejected by then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Vietnam was disappointed and in 2009 begrudgingly accepted Australia’s proposal that bilateral relations be raised to a comprehensive partnership.
> 
> The Comprehensive Partnership agreement laid the foundation for the development of defence and security cooperation. Australia and Vietnam declared that the 'security and prosperity of both countries is linked to a secure future for the Asia-Pacific region' and pledged to 'work together in regional forums to develop credible security architecture'. To this end, Australia and Vietnam pledged to exchange defence personnel, conduct joint training, host ship visits, and conduct regular dialogues on regional security issues between foreign affairs and defence officials.
> 
> In 2010 the defence ministers of Australia and Vietnam signed a Memorandum of Understanding on Defence Cooperation. The MoU extended defence engagement from reciprocal education exchanges to a limited number of practical training activities between their navies and special forces. A key component of defence cooperation has been Australia’s provision of English language instruction and specialist training for Vietnamese personnel about to deploy to the South Sudan on UN peacekeeping operations.
> 
> As a result of the MoU, Australia and Vietnam inaugurated Defence Cooperation Talks, a Strategic Dialogue involving deputy secretaries from Foreign Affairs and Defence (2012), and a Defence Ministers’ Meeting (2013), all on an annual basis.
> 
> In 2014 Vietnam once again pressed Australia unsuccessfully to raise bilateral relations to a strategic partnership level. Nonetheless, the following year, during the visit of Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, Australia and Vietnam adopted a declaration on Enhancing the Comprehensive Partnership to signal growing bilateral ties. This declaration laid out a road map for cooperation at international and regional levels, including promoting the East Asia Summit as a leader-led forum, and the centrality of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).
> 
> Australia and Vietnam reached a convergence of views on territorial disputes in the South China Sea. They stressed:
> 
> ...the importance of maintaining peace and stability in the region, and ensuring security, safety and freedom of navigation and aviation, in accordance with international law, including the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, without resorting to the threat or use of force. Both countries call on all parties to exercise restraint and refrain from actions that could increase tensions in the region. Both countries agree on the urgent need to conclude a code of conduct for the South China Sea.
> 
> The declaration also included a section on defence ties. It stated that both parties 'will strengthen the exchange of views on regional and security issues of mutual concern by maintaining a programme of regular consultations and visits at civilian official and military levels' including the annual bilateral talks mentioned above, as well as an annual Defence 1.5 Track Dialogue. Australia and Vietnam also pledged to work together to achieve shared security goals in the ASEAN Regional Forum, ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting Plus, and the Expanded ASEAN Maritime Forum.
> 
> Bilateral defence cooperation has continued through personnel exchanges, officer training and naval ship visits. Other areas of cooperation include aviation and maritime security, peacekeeping, counter-terrorism, special forces, and war legacy issues.
> 
> Vietnam promotes a foreign policy of 'independence and self-reliance', and a defence policy that prohibits alliances and foreign bases on Vietnam's soil. In 2007, in an important development, Vietnam was the Asia Bloc’s unanimous nominee for a seat on the UN Security Council as a non-permanent member. Vietnam received the overwhelming endorsement of the UN General Assembly and served from 2008-09. Vietnam is currently seeking re-election in 2020 and is poised to deploy a field hospital to South Sudan. Vietnam has also engaged in a robust program of defence self-help involving the modernisation of its naval and air forces. In the period 2011-15, Vietnam was the eighth largest importer of arms globally.
> 
> Vietnam has reached out to negotiate eleven strategic and fifteen comprehensive partnership agreements involving all five permanent members of the UN Security Council, and other major powers such as India and Japan. Vietnam’s strategic partners are given more extensive access to its top leadership than comprehensive partners.
> 
> It is time for Australia to pick up some of the slack regionally as the Trump Administration pursues an America First policy. The time is right to advance bilateral relations to a strategic partnership level. Australia and Vietnam share convergent security views and Vietnam has the capacity to work with Australia to address maritime security issues.





Carlosa said:


> Wr are in the same page man, I said that because I was not totally sure, so just to clarify.
> 
> I didn't realize that the LCS price came down so much now, it was around 700 million for the first ships. Yes, 360 is quite ok. I would say that the only issues would be kind of the same as in USA where the weapons systems are too weak and they are improving them and integrating better anti ship capability etc and I think they are moving away from the multi modular concept since that's not working out and of course having to integrate some Russian systems such as KH-35, maybe some sensors, etc.
> 
> I always felt that the whole concept of the trimaran is really nice, can't beat the speed, the fact that the ship is very wide which adds a lot of useful space, its actually very difficult to sink the ship because of the trimaran concept, etc, etc. I love the design. Oh well, we'll have to see how things develop in Vietnam, if it goes further towards the west and looking at the latest issues and tension, it may well happens. Vietnam has not done much with Australia in terms of weapons purchases but they are certainly developing a closer relationship so we'll see.
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty damn serious man. I bet there are a lot of contacts now between USA and Vietnam. VN probably got some assurances from Trump and the Japanese during the PM trip so that he can maintain a strong position with China. You can also bet that the Americans are also not going to be passive about that observation network.



For some reason I wasn't tagged when you quote me, so I missed your post...(They need to seriously think about this tagging issue....been missing a lot of post this way)

Anyway, no offend taken  Just thought that you don't know what I meant and meant to clarify (basically the same thing you do lol...

Yeah, LCS is now down to 350 mil because they stopped paying for upgrade, and the US Navy also ordered 6 more LCS, which help driving the price down. Also you will get a ship that similar to a modern frigate now (which they change the LCS to Fast Frigate) up to 3000 tons.

It's quite a bargain for a ship that advance, but I do understand your concern about the weapon system, however, I do think if they were made in Vietnam (If they ever do) the Austal People would be able to upgrade with Russian weaponry.

The problem about Australian-Vietnamese cooperation is that there are still some old guard in the Parliament that don't think it's right to deal with communist or former communist country, the question is not whether or not Australia will cooperate with Vietnam, the question is how long does it takes and how much money did we waste before we finally think of a economic cooperation with Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

Map of the Exxon drilling area that has China up in arms. Its nonsense to pretend that such a location so close to the Vietnamese coast can be considered disputed waters. There is also a concentration of chinese ships in Vanguard Bank in the Spratlys where the Spanish company Repsol is drilling for oil together with Vietnam. There are rumors that the infamous chinese oil rig HD981 is heading to that location. The map also shows the location where oil rig HD981 was located in the water war of 2014.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Map of the Exxon drilling area that has China up in arms. Its nonsense to pretend that such a location so close to the Vietnamese coast can be considered disputed waters. There is also a concentration of chinese ships in Vanguard Bank in the Spratlys where the Spanish company Repsol is drilling for oil together with Vietnam. There are rumors that the infamous chinese oil rig HD981 is heading to that location. The map also shows the location where oil rig HD981 was located in the water war of 2014.
> 
> View attachment 405851


The Chinese consider everything as ancient territories including Danang beach. We aren't even allowed to pee into our waters. Considering they came from the central plain, people can question their mental condition.



Carlosa said:


> Yes, it is infantile, but that's how bullies do things.


It's worthless to start the 10th China/Vietnam war. For what reason?

I have some hope that a new confrontation can be avoided. Even the most Chinese nationalists know, I quote the Global Times: China and Vietnam must avoid disputes spiraling out of control. History has shown that a showdown between two countries will be particularly catastrophic as both have a strong ability to mobilize the public.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> I have some hope that a new confrontation can be avoided. Even the most Chinese nationalists know, I quote the Global Times: China and Vietnam must avoid disputes spiraling out of control. History has shown that a showdown between two countries will be particularly catastrophic as both have a strong ability to mobilize the public.


We drill oil in our water, we make friend wt countries who bring win-win deals to VN, we will unify sub-Mekong region and take back all isls that belong to VN.

We have strong army, brave and loyal soldiers, so lets teach CN another lesson if they try to invade VN again.CN has no chance to win cos everyone know how PLA fought in 1979.

If u want peace, lets prepare for war . Thats it


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## Carlosa

Latest and best pic so far of the land reclamation in Spratly island (Truong sa lon):








Viet said:


> The Chinese consider everything as ancient territories *including Danang beach*.



Well, do you know by what name Americans know Danang Beach? China beach.
American soldiers used to call it that way and there was a tv series by that name in USA, so I guess the chinese watched too much American television and probably think that Danang beach belongs to them too because of that name.

Chinese tour guides in Danang often tell chinese tourists that that's the name of the beach and that it actually belongs / should belong to China. I'm not kidding you.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam military considers pulling out of economic activities: deputy minister *

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 06/23/2017 16:02 GMT + 7






*Vietnam’s military, which is running many major enterprises in different fields, may withdraw from all economic activities to focus on its main role of national defense, a deputy minister of defense said Friday.*

The Ministry of National Defense now considers having the military stop doing business, Colonel General Le Chiem said at a meeting with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Ho Chi Minh City, without providing a specific timeline for the plan.

“The provisional policy could be implemented with the military completely divesting from all companies it has a stake in, as well as privatizing all military-run enterprises,” the deputy minister elaborated.

The corporate arm of the military is operating in several fields, from banking and construction to fuel and telecom, with such popular names as Viettel Telecom, Military Joint Stock Commercial Bank (MBBank), Military Insurance Company (MIC) and Military Petrochemical (MIPEC).

Once the military no longer has a share in those companies, it will “focus on enhancing and modernizing itself to better fulfill its duty of protecting the Party, the State and the people,” Deputy Minister Chiem underlined.

For those businesses where the military will retain its stake, Chiem said they will “only serve national defense, rather than economic, purposes.”

At Friday’s meeting, Chiem also addressed the headline-making *golf course* that lies adjacent to the overloaded Tan Son Nhat International Airport in Ho Chi Minh City.

The golf course, located within a 157-hectare land plot, has been criticized for occupying an area which should have been used to expand Vietnam’s busiest airdrome.

In mid-June, PM Phuc requested a cessation of *all construction activities* inside the golf course, pending a feasibility study for a new runway for Tan Son Nhat.

Chiem said the defense ministry has strictly followed the premier’s request.

The colonel general reassured that Ho Chi Minh City authorities should not worry about how the land issue would be resolved.

“The defense ministry’s view on this issue is that the development of civil aviation should be prioritized,” he said.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> The Chinese consider everything as ancient territories including Danang beach. We aren't even allowed to pee into our waters. Considering they came from the central plain, people can question their mental condition.
> 
> 
> It's worthless to start the 10th China/Vietnam war. For what reason?
> 
> I have some hope that a new confrontation can be avoided. Even the most Chinese nationalists know, I quote the Global Times: China and Vietnam must avoid disputes spiraling out of control. History has shown that a showdown between two countries will be particularly catastrophic as both have a strong ability to mobilize the public.



Heard unofficial reports that 2 Kilo subs left Cam Ranh base and some fighter jets are deploying to secondary bases / airports (I'm not going to say to which bases for obvious reasons).

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Latest and best pic so far of the land reclamation in Spratly island (Truong sa lon):
> 
> View attachment 405870
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, do you know by what name Americans know Danang Beach? China beach.
> American soldiers used to call it that way and there was a tv series by that name in USA, so I guess the chinese watched too much American television and probably think that Danang beach belongs to them too because of that name.
> 
> Chinese tour guides in Danang often tell chinese tourists that that's the name of the beach and that it actually belongs / should belong to China. I'm not kidding you.


Looking great. The island size has probably tripled. We should replicate it, creating more 50 islands. I read we want to import sand from Cambodia.

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## Viet

Heavy weight P21 antiship missile





















Some side effects of Vietnam rapprochement to US/JP alliance. Not only some beautiful ships to see, but some bitter medicine to taste. For example Japan lays out stringent rules how ODA is to be used. If a deadline for a construction of a road is missed, money stops. Not necessary a bad thing, the people of VN learn from the Japanese how to work harder.

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## Viet

Phạm Quý Linh 
MC of Vietnam army television

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Looking great. The island size has probably tripled. We should replicate it, creating more 50 islands. I read we want to import sand from Cambodia.



Indeed, the runway looks very good.


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## Viet

Vietnam's own $9 million tsunami early warning system in the South China Sea is under construction and will be complete by 2019. The system with 532 alert stations covering the entire 3,000 km long coastline is capable to predict tsunami for example caused by an earthquake as far as 2,000 km west of the Philippines.

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## Viet

Vietnam/Laos militaries meet in Saigon to discuss measures to reduce customs and logistics costs in bilateral trades by $4.8 billion a year by 2020. Interesting, the event is cochaired and sponsored by USAid.








50 years have passed since Vietnam/Cambodia established diplomatic ties. Reason enough for celebration. In a message hidden among all wishes, Vietnam is ready to provide security guarantee to Cambodia.

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## Farhan Bohra

jhungary said:


> Actually, it's cost 2.1 billions for Flight IIA and 2.4 for Flight III
> 
> It's actually not really that expensive, the HMAS Hobart (Hobart Class) cost USD 3 billions each. Modern Destroyer is mighty expensive...
> 
> 
> 
> You really shouldn't smoke next to a pile of ammo


3 billion dollars for one ship? 

Does this include an Aircraft Carrier with it?

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Vietnam/Laos militaries meet in Saigon to discuss measures to reduce customs and logistics costs in bilateral trades by $4.8 billion a year by 2020. Interesting, the event is cochaired and sponsored by USAid.
> 
> View attachment 406064
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50 years have passed since Vietnam/Cambodia established diplomatic ties. Reason enough for celebration. In a message hidden among all wishes, Vietnam is ready to provide security guarantee to Cambodia.
> 
> View attachment 406065



Vietnam,Laos, and Cambodia need to open their borders also. Free travel.


----------



## Viet

TenLua said:


> Vietnam,Laos, and Cambodia need to open their borders also. Free travel.


I believe there is no visa restriction at all between the three Indochinese countries. Vietnamese always make up the majority of tourists to Laos and Cambodia, until recently the Chinese overtake in numbers.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-05/16/content_29367906.htm



Carlosa said:


> Indeed, the runway looks very good.


but good enough for Su30 fighter aircraft to land and to take off?

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## jhungary

Farhan Bohra said:


> 3 billion dollars for one ship?
> 
> Does this include an Aircraft Carrier with it?



Yes, it cost 9 billions for 3 Air Warfare Destroyers and no, it does not come with an Aircraft Carrier

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-22/air-warfare-destroyer-hobart-launch-techport-adelaide/6487870

Air Warfare Destroyer: Government to put control of troubled warship program out to tender as cost hits $9 billion

*The Federal Government will put control of the troubled Air Warfare Destroyer (AWD) project out to tender, following a new report revealing the total cost for the three new ships has now blown out to around $9 billion.*

The audit into the status of the project has revealed at least an additional $1.2 billion will be required to complete it.

The first of the three ships, HMAS Hobart, was originally due to be delivered last year.

The ship will be floated in Adelaide tomorrow, but extensive fit-out work means it will still be more than a year before it is ready to be deployed.

The report reveals each of the ships are now expected to be completed more than two-and-a-half years behind schedule, but the Government will not release the document for reasons of commercial confidence.

*AWD schedule delays*
*Original delivery* *Revised estimate*
Ship 1 December 2014 June 2017
Ship 2 March 2016 September 2018
Ship 3 June 2017 March 2020
Finance Minister Mathias Cormann described the extent of the cost and schedule overruns as "very disappointing", and said the Government would now release a fresh tender for oversight of the project.

"The Government will begin a limited tender, to either insert a managing contractor into ASC [Australian Submarine Corporation] for the remainder of the build, or further enhance ASC capability through a partnering arrangement," he said.

"What we're trying to do is get the project completed at the lowest possible cost and in the fastest possible time in light of the significant cost and schedule overruns that we inherited.

"That will be done through ASC, but it'll be done through an enhanced partnership or it'll be done by inserting a managing contractor."

The ABC understands the two companies likely to bid for the task of overseeing completion are BAE Systems and Spanish shipbuilder Navantia.

The project is currently being run by the AWD Alliance, a consortium made up of the Defence Materiel Organisation, the Government-owned shipbuilder ASC, and defence contractor Raytheon Australia.

Documents leaked recently to the ABC indicated the alliance was concerned its shipbuilding reputation was being harmed by cost blowouts and project delays.

Last December, the Government announced it was bringing in a team of shipbuilding experts from Navantia and BAE to provide "mentorship and advice" to the ASC management team.

The day after we see more jobs lost at Holden and the day before we are meant to be celebrating the success of an industry, we get this kick in the guts from the Federal Government.

SA Premier Jay Weatherill
Former defence minister David Johnston lost the portfolio in a ministerial reshuffle last year, after he told the Senate that he would not trust ASC "to build a canoe".

A senior analyst with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, Mark Thomson, said the alliance's structure seemed to be one of the problems.

"With an alliance contract where you don't have somebody clearly in charge you can rapidly find yourself in a situation where things go wrong and people are looking at one another, passing blame, not taking responsibility and decisions aren't made," he told the ABC recently.

Mr Thomson on Friday added the blowout put further doubt on ASC's ability to build the next generation of submarines in Adelaide.

"It's going to be very hard in Cabinet to muster support on doubling down on Australian industry to build the next generation of submarines or warships," he said.

An internal defence update obtained by the ABC said the second of three AWDs had been plagued by defects.

The first warship was meant to be ready in 2014 but its cable and combat systems faced "numerous defects".

Thousands of spectators are expected to be present when HMAS Hobart is floated for the first time at the Osborne shipyard on Saturday.

*Cormann's comments a 'kick in the guts' for SA*
SA Premier Jay Weatherill has criticised Senator Cormann, saying he had "exaggerated figures and deliberately used large numbers to undermine confidence" in the sector.

He said using the example of the first ship, with related start-up costs, ignored efficiencies gained through the rest of the build program.

"This report has lumped all the start-up costs inclusive of separate facility costs to somehow come up with a large figure multiplied [for] the entire project," Mr Weatherill said.

Mr Weatherill said Senator Cormann "deliberately sabotaged the celebration of the launch".

"The day after we see more jobs lost at Holden and the day before we are meant to be celebrating the success of an industry, we get this kick in the guts from the Federal Government," he said.

Mr Weatherill said it also flew in the face of a COAG agreement to recognise the importance of a continuous naval build strategy.

"Just a few weeks after reaching agreement at COAG we have federal ministers continuing the assault started by David Johnston, selectively using figures to deride the accomplishments of the nation's shipbuilding industry."

South Australia's defence industry association, the Defence Teaming Centre, has called on the Government to make the audit public.

"If you want to be taken seriously when you release reports like that you have to provide the detail so that independent analysis can be conducted," chief executive Chris Burns said.

"We don't even know who did this audit, how it was conducted, what was the methodology and who was involved."

*Production efficiencies 'on the rise'*
AWD Alliance chief executive officer Rod Equid told 891 ABC Adelaide that there was "no question" there had been problems with the first ship but people had to consider the technical aspects of a start-up operation that would improve with each ship.

"We've doing things for the first time and we learn things how we go along," he said.

"The important thing is how we learn from that and take those lessons to the next ship."

By the time we get to the third ship, the labour costs will be half what they were on the first.

AWD Alliance chief executive Rod Equid
He further quashed reports that each ship was costing taxpayers $3 billion.

"This is principally because of the other costs included in the $9 billion are facilities, other defence costs, purchase of missiles, the training systems, the technical publications, etc," Mr Equid said.

"The unit price of ships is not nine divided by three."

Mr Equid said production labour had been a large expense in the first ship, "but we're seeing improvements to the second ship of more than 30 per cent, many areas of 20 per cent to the third ship".

"By the time we get to the third ship, the labour costs will be half what they were on the first," he said.

He said that while there had been a "conversation about the costs", there had been no compromise on the capability and quality of the "exceptional ship", and the safety in performing the work.

Mr Equid added that while there could have been an order placed to build the ships in Spain, there would still have been extra costs involved to adapt and convert the ships' systems to Australian Defence Force requirements.







The first Air Warfare Destroyer rests in a huge cradle, as construction work advances in late 2012. (ABC News: Angelique Johnson)

Image 1 of 7





Delivery of a sonar block for the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart during its construction. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance: Grant Nowell Photography)

Image 2 of 7





An aerial view of the Hobart during construction work at ASC in Adelaide, March 2015. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance)

Image 3 of 7





This is one of the gas turbines which powers the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance: Grant Nowell Photography)

Image 4 of 7





The new Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart sits on the dock at Techport Australia just ahead of its planned launch and naming ceremony. (ABC: Matthew Abraham)

Image 5 of 7





A view of the bow of the new Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart as it nears its official launch ceremony. (ABC: Matthew Abraham)

Image 6 of 7





Check out some of the features of the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance)

*Gallery:* The first Air Warfare Destroyer of three
HMAS Hobart is 146.7-metres in length, capable of a top speed of more than 28 knots (52kph) and has a range of 5,000 nautical miles at 18 or more knots.

It has two diesel and two gas turbine engines, which can produce 36 megawatts of power, the equivalent of the power of 200 family sedans.

The destroyer can carry a crew of about 180 and accommodate up to 236 people in all.

The flight deck and helicopter hangar can accommodate a Seahawk helicopter and the destroyer has two inflatable boats, which can be deployed for tasks including transport, boardings of other vessels or for rescues.

Once the ship is floated on the weekend and named in a traditional ceremony with the smashing of a champagne bottle, it will spend a further 12 months in port while combat systems equipment are loaded and fitted onto the ship ahead of sea trials.


----------



## Viet

jhungary said:


> Yes, it cost 9 billions for 3 Air Warfare Destroyers and no, it does not come with an Aircraft Carrier
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-22/air-warfare-destroyer-hobart-launch-techport-adelaide/6487870
> 
> Air Warfare Destroyer: Government to put control of troubled warship program out to tender as cost hits $9 billion
> 
> *The Federal Government will put control of the troubled Air Warfare Destroyer (AWD) project out to tender, following a new report revealing the total cost for the three new ships has now blown out to around $9 billion.*
> 
> The audit into the status of the project has revealed at least an additional $1.2 billion will be required to complete it.
> 
> The first of the three ships, HMAS Hobart, was originally due to be delivered last year.
> 
> The ship will be floated in Adelaide tomorrow, but extensive fit-out work means it will still be more than a year before it is ready to be deployed.
> 
> The report reveals each of the ships are now expected to be completed more than two-and-a-half years behind schedule, but the Government will not release the document for reasons of commercial confidence.
> 
> *AWD schedule delays*
> *Original delivery* *Revised estimate*
> Ship 1 December 2014 June 2017
> Ship 2 March 2016 September 2018
> Ship 3 June 2017 March 2020
> Finance Minister Mathias Cormann described the extent of the cost and schedule overruns as "very disappointing", and said the Government would now release a fresh tender for oversight of the project.
> 
> "The Government will begin a limited tender, to either insert a managing contractor into ASC [Australian Submarine Corporation] for the remainder of the build, or further enhance ASC capability through a partnering arrangement," he said.
> 
> "What we're trying to do is get the project completed at the lowest possible cost and in the fastest possible time in light of the significant cost and schedule overruns that we inherited.
> 
> "That will be done through ASC, but it'll be done through an enhanced partnership or it'll be done by inserting a managing contractor."
> 
> The ABC understands the two companies likely to bid for the task of overseeing completion are BAE Systems and Spanish shipbuilder Navantia.
> 
> The project is currently being run by the AWD Alliance, a consortium made up of the Defence Materiel Organisation, the Government-owned shipbuilder ASC, and defence contractor Raytheon Australia.
> 
> Documents leaked recently to the ABC indicated the alliance was concerned its shipbuilding reputation was being harmed by cost blowouts and project delays.
> 
> Last December, the Government announced it was bringing in a team of shipbuilding experts from Navantia and BAE to provide "mentorship and advice" to the ASC management team.
> 
> The day after we see more jobs lost at Holden and the day before we are meant to be celebrating the success of an industry, we get this kick in the guts from the Federal Government.
> 
> SA Premier Jay Weatherill
> Former defence minister David Johnston lost the portfolio in a ministerial reshuffle last year, after he told the Senate that he would not trust ASC "to build a canoe".
> 
> A senior analyst with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, Mark Thomson, said the alliance's structure seemed to be one of the problems.
> 
> "With an alliance contract where you don't have somebody clearly in charge you can rapidly find yourself in a situation where things go wrong and people are looking at one another, passing blame, not taking responsibility and decisions aren't made," he told the ABC recently.
> 
> Mr Thomson on Friday added the blowout put further doubt on ASC's ability to build the next generation of submarines in Adelaide.
> 
> "It's going to be very hard in Cabinet to muster support on doubling down on Australian industry to build the next generation of submarines or warships," he said.
> 
> An internal defence update obtained by the ABC said the second of three AWDs had been plagued by defects.
> 
> The first warship was meant to be ready in 2014 but its cable and combat systems faced "numerous defects".
> 
> Thousands of spectators are expected to be present when HMAS Hobart is floated for the first time at the Osborne shipyard on Saturday.
> 
> *Cormann's comments a 'kick in the guts' for SA*
> SA Premier Jay Weatherill has criticised Senator Cormann, saying he had "exaggerated figures and deliberately used large numbers to undermine confidence" in the sector.
> 
> He said using the example of the first ship, with related start-up costs, ignored efficiencies gained through the rest of the build program.
> 
> "This report has lumped all the start-up costs inclusive of separate facility costs to somehow come up with a large figure multiplied [for] the entire project," Mr Weatherill said.
> 
> Mr Weatherill said Senator Cormann "deliberately sabotaged the celebration of the launch".
> 
> "The day after we see more jobs lost at Holden and the day before we are meant to be celebrating the success of an industry, we get this kick in the guts from the Federal Government," he said.
> 
> Mr Weatherill said it also flew in the face of a COAG agreement to recognise the importance of a continuous naval build strategy.
> 
> "Just a few weeks after reaching agreement at COAG we have federal ministers continuing the assault started by David Johnston, selectively using figures to deride the accomplishments of the nation's shipbuilding industry."
> 
> South Australia's defence industry association, the Defence Teaming Centre, has called on the Government to make the audit public.
> 
> "If you want to be taken seriously when you release reports like that you have to provide the detail so that independent analysis can be conducted," chief executive Chris Burns said.
> 
> "We don't even know who did this audit, how it was conducted, what was the methodology and who was involved."
> 
> *Production efficiencies 'on the rise'*
> AWD Alliance chief executive officer Rod Equid told 891 ABC Adelaide that there was "no question" there had been problems with the first ship but people had to consider the technical aspects of a start-up operation that would improve with each ship.
> 
> "We've doing things for the first time and we learn things how we go along," he said.
> 
> "The important thing is how we learn from that and take those lessons to the next ship."
> 
> By the time we get to the third ship, the labour costs will be half what they were on the first.
> 
> AWD Alliance chief executive Rod Equid
> He further quashed reports that each ship was costing taxpayers $3 billion.
> 
> "This is principally because of the other costs included in the $9 billion are facilities, other defence costs, purchase of missiles, the training systems, the technical publications, etc," Mr Equid said.
> 
> "The unit price of ships is not nine divided by three."
> 
> Mr Equid said production labour had been a large expense in the first ship, "but we're seeing improvements to the second ship of more than 30 per cent, many areas of 20 per cent to the third ship".
> 
> "By the time we get to the third ship, the labour costs will be half what they were on the first," he said.
> 
> He said that while there had been a "conversation about the costs", there had been no compromise on the capability and quality of the "exceptional ship", and the safety in performing the work.
> 
> Mr Equid added that while there could have been an order placed to build the ships in Spain, there would still have been extra costs involved to adapt and convert the ships' systems to Australian Defence Force requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Air Warfare Destroyer rests in a huge cradle, as construction work advances in late 2012. (ABC News: Angelique Johnson)
> 
> Image 1 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delivery of a sonar block for the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart during its construction. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance: Grant Nowell Photography)
> 
> Image 2 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An aerial view of the Hobart during construction work at ASC in Adelaide, March 2015. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance)
> 
> Image 3 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the gas turbines which powers the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance: Grant Nowell Photography)
> 
> Image 4 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart sits on the dock at Techport Australia just ahead of its planned launch and naming ceremony. (ABC: Matthew Abraham)
> 
> Image 5 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A view of the bow of the new Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart as it nears its official launch ceremony. (ABC: Matthew Abraham)
> 
> Image 6 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out some of the features of the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance)
> *Gallery:* The first Air Warfare Destroyer of three
> HMAS Hobart is 146.7-metres in length, capable of a top speed of more than 28 knots (52kph) and has a range of 5,000 nautical miles at 18 or more knots.
> 
> It has two diesel and two gas turbine engines, which can produce 36 megawatts of power, the equivalent of the power of 200 family sedans.
> 
> The destroyer can carry a crew of about 180 and accommodate up to 236 people in all.
> 
> The flight deck and helicopter hangar can accommodate a Seahawk helicopter and the destroyer has two inflatable boats, which can be deployed for tasks including transport, boardings of other vessels or for rescues.
> 
> Once the ship is floated on the weekend and named in a traditional ceremony with the smashing of a champagne bottle, it will spend a further 12 months in port while combat systems equipment are loaded and fitted onto the ship ahead of sea trials.


$3 billion a destroyer is ways too much, even if weapons and other costs are included. Country of the size of Australia needs probably 12 destroyers. With three billions USD Vietnam can buy another squadron of Kilo submarines with weapons. And I place the bet that a Vietnamese submarine would sink all 3 Aussie destroyers before the crews took notice. Of course we will never do as we are friends. Ha ha.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> $3 billion a destroyer is ways too much, even if weapons and other costs are included. Country of the size of Australia needs probably 12 destroyers. With three billions USD Vietnam can buy another squadron of Kilo submarines with weapons. And I place the bet that a Vietnamese submarine would sink all 3 Aussie destroyers before the crews took notice. Of course we will never do as we are friends. Ha ha.
> 
> View attachment 406084
> 
> View attachment 406083



3 billions can buy 1 (ONE) Collin class Submarine Replacement. We paid $50 billions dollar for 12 Submarine. Which round up to ~2.1 Billions per boat.

So, 3 Billions per Destroyer is not at all the most expensive purchase the Australian made. Me? I don't care, I did not pay tax in Australia (I am on AusStudy, so I am taking money from the Australian Government.) Well, for the money we spend on our destroyer and submarine, we can buy the whole CBG from the US brand spanking new (that's 60 billions in case you have not notice, 64 + Change if you also count the Canberra Class LPD), I mean, how much for a CBG build brand new from the US?

Ford Class is 10.44 Billions,
Arleigh Burke Class Flight III 2.4 Bil each, 5 of them will be 12 billions,
3 Zumwalt class for another 12 billions in place for the 2 Ticonderoga Class Cruiser
3 Virginia Class Submarine cost about 9 billions. 

So, it cost a grant total of 43.44 billions Let's say we offer the American 40% Mark up price (So we pay 40% more), it's still 61 billions, effectively we can spend that 64 Billions for SEA 4000, SEA 1000 and Canberra Class for A whole Carrier Group and we will still have 3 billions left for Aircraft..... That's almost 40 F-35 you know....

Instead, for 64 billions, we got 3 Destroyers 12 Submarines and 2 LPDs...

lol....

Anyway, be more serious, the official reason why we spend all these cash is we want to resurrect our ship building industry and we want to start building naval ship and civilian ship back in Australia, that's the reason why we pay that crazy amount for that little ship, well, one part of it anyway, the other part is going straight toward the politician.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> 3 billions can buy 1 (ONE) Collin class Submarine Replacement. We paid $50 billions dollar for 12 Submarine. Which round up to ~2.1 Billions per boat.
> 
> So, 3 Billions per Destroyer is not at all the most expensive purchase the Australian made. Me? I don't care, I did not pay tax in Australia (I am on AusStudy, so I am taking money from the Australian Government.) Well, for the money we spend on our destroyer and submarine, we can buy the whole CBG from the US brand spanking new (that's 60 billions in case you have not notice, 64 + Change if you also count the Canberra Class LPD), I mean, how much for a CBG build brand new from the US?
> 
> Ford Class is 10.44 Billions,
> Arleigh Burke Class Flight III 2.4 Bil each, 5 of them will be 12 billions,
> 3 Zumwalt class for another 12 billions in place for the 2 Ticonderoga Class Cruiser
> 3 Virginia Class Submarine cost about 9 billions.
> 
> So, it cost a grant total of 43.44 billions Let's say we offer the American 40% Mark up price (So we pay 40% more), it's still 61 billions, effectively we can spend that 64 Billions for SEA 4000, SEA 1000 and Canberra Class for A whole Carrier Group and we will still have 3 billions left for Aircraft..... That's almost 40 F-35 you know....
> 
> Instead, for 64 billions, we got 3 Destroyers 12 Submarines and 2 LPDs...
> 
> lol....
> 
> Anyway, be more serious, the official reason why we spend all these cash is we want to resurrect our ship building industry and we want to start building naval ship and civilian ship back in Australia, that's the reason why we pay that crazy amount for that little ship, well, one part of it anyway, the other part is going straight toward the politician.


The Aussie are the oil sheikhs of east Asia. Half of the world population must survive on one dollar a day, while you spend huge sums on a handful ships. I wonder how much will be operational and maintenance costs.


----------



## jhungary

Viet said:


> The Aussie are the oil sheikhs of east Asia. Half of the world population must survive on one dollar a day, while you spend huge sums on a handful ships. I wonder how much will be operational and maintenance costs.



I don't feel specially rich, again, I am on dole and disability, I cannot comment on 24 millions of my fellow Australian.

Well, the reason the purchasing price is that big is because they said the maintenance price would be a fraction of that, that's why we go with it. I don't know how much to maintain the 3 destroyer and 12 submarine, but it better be less than the price we already pay


----------



## Farhan Bohra

jhungary said:


> Yes, it cost 9 billions for 3 Air Warfare Destroyers and no, it does not come with an Aircraft Carrier
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-22/air-warfare-destroyer-hobart-launch-techport-adelaide/6487870
> 
> Air Warfare Destroyer: Government to put control of troubled warship program out to tender as cost hits $9 billion
> 
> *The Federal Government will put control of the troubled Air Warfare Destroyer (AWD) project out to tender, following a new report revealing the total cost for the three new ships has now blown out to around $9 billion.*
> 
> The audit into the status of the project has revealed at least an additional $1.2 billion will be required to complete it.
> 
> The first of the three ships, HMAS Hobart, was originally due to be delivered last year.
> 
> The ship will be floated in Adelaide tomorrow, but extensive fit-out work means it will still be more than a year before it is ready to be deployed.
> 
> The report reveals each of the ships are now expected to be completed more than two-and-a-half years behind schedule, but the Government will not release the document for reasons of commercial confidence.
> 
> *AWD schedule delays*
> *Original delivery* *Revised estimate*
> Ship 1 December 2014 June 2017
> Ship 2 March 2016 September 2018
> Ship 3 June 2017 March 2020
> Finance Minister Mathias Cormann described the extent of the cost and schedule overruns as "very disappointing", and said the Government would now release a fresh tender for oversight of the project.
> 
> "The Government will begin a limited tender, to either insert a managing contractor into ASC [Australian Submarine Corporation] for the remainder of the build, or further enhance ASC capability through a partnering arrangement," he said.
> 
> "What we're trying to do is get the project completed at the lowest possible cost and in the fastest possible time in light of the significant cost and schedule overruns that we inherited.
> 
> "That will be done through ASC, but it'll be done through an enhanced partnership or it'll be done by inserting a managing contractor."
> 
> The ABC understands the two companies likely to bid for the task of overseeing completion are BAE Systems and Spanish shipbuilder Navantia.
> 
> The project is currently being run by the AWD Alliance, a consortium made up of the Defence Materiel Organisation, the Government-owned shipbuilder ASC, and defence contractor Raytheon Australia.
> 
> Documents leaked recently to the ABC indicated the alliance was concerned its shipbuilding reputation was being harmed by cost blowouts and project delays.
> 
> Last December, the Government announced it was bringing in a team of shipbuilding experts from Navantia and BAE to provide "mentorship and advice" to the ASC management team.
> 
> The day after we see more jobs lost at Holden and the day before we are meant to be celebrating the success of an industry, we get this kick in the guts from the Federal Government.
> 
> SA Premier Jay Weatherill
> Former defence minister David Johnston lost the portfolio in a ministerial reshuffle last year, after he told the Senate that he would not trust ASC "to build a canoe".
> 
> A senior analyst with the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, Mark Thomson, said the alliance's structure seemed to be one of the problems.
> 
> "With an alliance contract where you don't have somebody clearly in charge you can rapidly find yourself in a situation where things go wrong and people are looking at one another, passing blame, not taking responsibility and decisions aren't made," he told the ABC recently.
> 
> Mr Thomson on Friday added the blowout put further doubt on ASC's ability to build the next generation of submarines in Adelaide.
> 
> "It's going to be very hard in Cabinet to muster support on doubling down on Australian industry to build the next generation of submarines or warships," he said.
> 
> An internal defence update obtained by the ABC said the second of three AWDs had been plagued by defects.
> 
> The first warship was meant to be ready in 2014 but its cable and combat systems faced "numerous defects".
> 
> Thousands of spectators are expected to be present when HMAS Hobart is floated for the first time at the Osborne shipyard on Saturday.
> 
> *Cormann's comments a 'kick in the guts' for SA*
> SA Premier Jay Weatherill has criticised Senator Cormann, saying he had "exaggerated figures and deliberately used large numbers to undermine confidence" in the sector.
> 
> He said using the example of the first ship, with related start-up costs, ignored efficiencies gained through the rest of the build program.
> 
> "This report has lumped all the start-up costs inclusive of separate facility costs to somehow come up with a large figure multiplied [for] the entire project," Mr Weatherill said.
> 
> Mr Weatherill said Senator Cormann "deliberately sabotaged the celebration of the launch".
> 
> "The day after we see more jobs lost at Holden and the day before we are meant to be celebrating the success of an industry, we get this kick in the guts from the Federal Government," he said.
> 
> Mr Weatherill said it also flew in the face of a COAG agreement to recognise the importance of a continuous naval build strategy.
> 
> "Just a few weeks after reaching agreement at COAG we have federal ministers continuing the assault started by David Johnston, selectively using figures to deride the accomplishments of the nation's shipbuilding industry."
> 
> South Australia's defence industry association, the Defence Teaming Centre, has called on the Government to make the audit public.
> 
> "If you want to be taken seriously when you release reports like that you have to provide the detail so that independent analysis can be conducted," chief executive Chris Burns said.
> 
> "We don't even know who did this audit, how it was conducted, what was the methodology and who was involved."
> 
> *Production efficiencies 'on the rise'*
> AWD Alliance chief executive officer Rod Equid told 891 ABC Adelaide that there was "no question" there had been problems with the first ship but people had to consider the technical aspects of a start-up operation that would improve with each ship.
> 
> "We've doing things for the first time and we learn things how we go along," he said.
> 
> "The important thing is how we learn from that and take those lessons to the next ship."
> 
> By the time we get to the third ship, the labour costs will be half what they were on the first.
> 
> AWD Alliance chief executive Rod Equid
> He further quashed reports that each ship was costing taxpayers $3 billion.
> 
> "This is principally because of the other costs included in the $9 billion are facilities, other defence costs, purchase of missiles, the training systems, the technical publications, etc," Mr Equid said.
> 
> "The unit price of ships is not nine divided by three."
> 
> Mr Equid said production labour had been a large expense in the first ship, "but we're seeing improvements to the second ship of more than 30 per cent, many areas of 20 per cent to the third ship".
> 
> "By the time we get to the third ship, the labour costs will be half what they were on the first," he said.
> 
> He said that while there had been a "conversation about the costs", there had been no compromise on the capability and quality of the "exceptional ship", and the safety in performing the work.
> 
> Mr Equid added that while there could have been an order placed to build the ships in Spain, there would still have been extra costs involved to adapt and convert the ships' systems to Australian Defence Force requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The first Air Warfare Destroyer rests in a huge cradle, as construction work advances in late 2012. (ABC News: Angelique Johnson)
> 
> Image 1 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delivery of a sonar block for the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart during its construction. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance: Grant Nowell Photography)
> 
> Image 2 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An aerial view of the Hobart during construction work at ASC in Adelaide, March 2015. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance)
> 
> Image 3 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of the gas turbines which powers the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance: Grant Nowell Photography)
> 
> Image 4 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart sits on the dock at Techport Australia just ahead of its planned launch and naming ceremony. (ABC: Matthew Abraham)
> 
> Image 5 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A view of the bow of the new Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart as it nears its official launch ceremony. (ABC: Matthew Abraham)
> 
> Image 6 of 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out some of the features of the Air Warfare Destroyer Hobart. (Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance)
> *Gallery:* The first Air Warfare Destroyer of three
> HMAS Hobart is 146.7-metres in length, capable of a top speed of more than 28 knots (52kph) and has a range of 5,000 nautical miles at 18 or more knots.
> 
> It has two diesel and two gas turbine engines, which can produce 36 megawatts of power, the equivalent of the power of 200 family sedans.
> 
> The destroyer can carry a crew of about 180 and accommodate up to 236 people in all.
> 
> The flight deck and helicopter hangar can accommodate a Seahawk helicopter and the destroyer has two inflatable boats, which can be deployed for tasks including transport, boardings of other vessels or for rescues.
> 
> Once the ship is floated on the weekend and named in a traditional ceremony with the smashing of a champagne bottle, it will spend a further 12 months in port while combat systems equipment are loaded and fitted onto the ship ahead of sea trials.




Bro, that was sarcasm. 

Maybe this seems like harsh, but it seems like Aus Navy is moronic to buy such costly destroyers. 

Type 45 Destroyer : 1 billion pound
Horizon Class: 1-1.5 billion dollars

If we want to see in Asia

Atago Class: $1.5 bn
Sejong Class: $1 bn
Kolkata Class: $1 bn 
Project-17A: $1 bn 
Vizag Class: $1.2 bn 

Why the hell on planet earth Aus destroyer is 3 times costly?



jhungary said:


> Me? I don't care, I did not pay tax in Australia (I am on AusStudy, so I am taking money from the Australian Government.) Well, for the money we spend on our destroyer and submarine, we can buy the whole CBG from the US brand spanking new (that's 60 billions in case you have not notice, 64 + Change if you also count the C



I didnt knew that foreigners can serve in Aus Defense Forces.


----------



## jhungary

Farhan Bohra said:


> Bro, that was sarcasm.
> 
> Maybe this seems like harsh, but it seems like Aus Navy is moronic to buy such costly destroyers.
> 
> Type 45 Destroyer : 1 billion pound
> Horizon Class: 1-1.5 billion dollars
> 
> If we want to see in Asia
> 
> Atago Class: $1.5 bn
> Sejong Class: $1 bn
> Kolkata Class: $1 bn
> Project-17A: $1 bn
> Vizag Class: $1.2 bn
> 
> Why the hell on planet earth Aus destroyer is 3 times costly?



Already stated in post above, am not going to get all riled up and type 2 pages for why we duped that much dough for the destroyer. You can go back to post 10304 where I gave some answer to it and the other member have added something as well.



> I didnt knew that foreigners can serve in Aus Defense Forces.



who? me?

I served in the US Armed Force, I am an American. I am also an Australian by descent (My mother obtained Australian Citizenship before I was 10)


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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> Ford Class is 10.44 Billions,.



The latest price for the Ford Class is 13 billion, it had quite a bit of price escalation.


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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> The latest price for the Ford Class is 13 billion, it had quite a bit of price escalation.



meh, still, we can buy a whole frigging Carrier Battle Group with 60 billions easy.


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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> meh, still, we can buy a whole frigging Carrier Battle Group with 60 billions easy.



I'd say 2 carrier groups with 60 billion. Virginia class subs are 1.8 billion, Zumwalt class are not part of carrier groups, 5 destroyers are enough for a carrier group.


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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> I'd say 2 carrier groups with 60 billion. Virginia class subs are 1.8 billion, Zumwalt class are not part of carrier groups, 5 destroyers are enough for a carrier group.



a bit of a stretch for 2 CBG in that amount....lol.......anyway, let's just say we can get heck a lot of ship with that money...

imagine Vietnam spend 60 billions in the Vietnamese Navy.......What would you get?


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> a bit of a stretch for 2 CBG in that amount....lol.......anyway, let's just say we can get heck a lot of ship with that money...
> 
> imagine Vietnam spend 60 billions in the Vietnamese Navy.......What would you get?


Interesting question. Now, VN focus is economy, so spending the money on HSR and North-South superhighway has priority. Ok lets say thing gets out of control, we would slow down or halt economic development, taking $60 billion loan on building three fleets: North, Center and South fleet. Each fleet has one Izumo aircraft carrier, accompanied by two Atago destroyers, two Gepard frigates, four Molynia corvettes, four TT400TP gunships and two Kilo submarines.


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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> a bit of a stretch for 2 CBG in that amount....lol.......anyway, let's just say we can get heck a lot of ship with that money...
> 
> imagine Vietnam spend 60 billions in the Vietnamese Navy.......What would you get?



I would get a ton of submarines and naval aviation for the most part, awacs, etc.


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## Viet

*Air defense*

P18M early warning radar, Su27 interceptor squadron


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## sinait

jhungary said:


> I served in the US Armed Force,* I am an American*. I am also an Australian by descent (My mother obtained Australian Citizenship before I was 10)


That's why myself and others are puzzled why you are not using the American Flag but using the Chinese Flag instead. 
I am not being antagonistic.
It would reduce a lot of animosity and confusion if you will use the correct flags.
By using the US flag, it doesn't remove the ethnicity or "chineseness" if you so chooses to promote yourself. 
@Shotgunner51 @was
.

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## Farhan Bohra

sinait said:


> That's why myself and others are puzzled why you are not using the American Flag but using the Chinese Flag instead.
> I am not being antagonistic.
> It would reduce a lot of animosity and confusion if you will use the correct flags.
> By using the US flag, it doesn't remove the ethnicity or "chineseness" if you so chooses to promote yourself.
> @Shotgunner51 @was
> .


Ohh, so that's why he using Chinese flag.
I thought he is Chinese, serving in Aus, no offence.

But in my personal opinion, what ever your ethnicity is, but if you hold a passport of a country, furthur taken oath for protecting that country with your last breath. You are solely married to that country without any divorce.

Like the Gurkhas are of IA, they indeed all are Indian citizens and ready to die for country. But they actually by ethnicity are from Nepal. 

But no matter what, they all are Indians.

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## sinait

Farhan Bohra said:


> Ohh, so that's why he using Chinese flag.
> I thought he is Chinese, serving in Aus, no offence.
> 
> But in my personal opinion, what ever your ethnicity is, but if you hold a passport of a country, furthur taken oath for protecting that country with your last breath. You are solely married to that country without any divorce.
> 
> Like the Gurkhas are of IA, they indeed all are Indian citizens and ready to die for country. But they actually by ethnicity are from Nepal.
> 
> But no matter what, they all are Indians.


I agree. Iindia, with 1.2 billion population will of course have some who will hate being an Indian and wont want to die for the nation.

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## jhungary

sinait said:


> That's why myself and others are puzzled why you are not using the American Flag but using the Chinese Flag instead.
> I am not being antagonistic.
> It would reduce a lot of animosity and confusion if you will use the correct flags.
> By using the US flag, it doesn't remove the ethnicity or "chineseness" if you so chooses to promote yourself.
> @Shotgunner51 @was
> .



If you want to know, I am a holder also hold a Chinese Passport. And this April I paid 60,000 RMB taxes for 2016 on my share along with my brother and my sister to the Chinese Government from the family textile business in Guangdong, I have a home address and Telephone Phone Number in Dongguan, Guangdong and Hong Kong, I have a residence account registered with the Mainland Chinese Authority, I also hold a Swedish, British Passport on top of my American, Australian, Chinese Passport with a right to live in New Zealand (as per Trans Tasman Agreement), Mexico and Permanent Residence in Canada, is it a good enough answer for you?

@waz I was assured this type of harassment will stop, can you delete that member post and my post when you are done with.

Thank You

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> If you want to know, I am a holder also hold a Chinese Passport. And this April I paid 60,000 RMB taxes for 2016 on my share along with my brother and my sister to the Chinese Government from the family textile business in Guangdong, I have a home address and Telephone Phone Number in Dongguan, Guangdong and Hong Kong, I have a residence account registered with the Mainland Chinese Authority, I also hold a Swedish, British Passport on top of my American, Australian, Chinese Passport with a right to live in New Zealand (as per Trans Tasman Agreement), Mexico and Permanent Residence in Canada, is it a good enough answer for you?
> 
> @waz I was assured this type of harassment will stop, can you delete that member post and my post when you are done with.
> 
> Thank You



Dongguan? Very interesting, I'm often there.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Interesting question. Now, VN focus is economy, so spending the money on HSR and North-South superhighway has priority. Ok lets say thing gets out of control, we would slow down or halt economic development, taking $60 billion loan on building three fleets: North, Center and South fleet. Each fleet has one Izumo aircraft carrier, accompanied by two Atago destroyers, two Gepard frigates, four Molynia corvettes, four TT400TP gunships and two Kilo submarines.



Japanese Ship is probably not the best to go, they are a bit over inflated in price, just like the American. I would also think it's not really good to try and mix Russian Ship and Japanese Ship together.

I think it's better for Vietnam, if they were given 60 billions, to get either all Russian Ship or all European Ship.

I think the combo of Lider-class destroyer and Admiral Grigorovich combo is quite lethal, combine with Akula Attack Sub. I would probably go with Mistral Class LHD instead of Izumo Class Carrier. 

So, Mistral will cost around 800 millions per ship, 2 Mistral will be around 1.6 billions
Akula class is about 2 billion per, let's say Vietnam is getting 6 (3 per carrier group), which is 12 billions
Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate cost around 1.8 billions per ship, I reckon Vietnam can order and support 10 Frigate. Which is about 18 billions
The wildcard, however, is the Lider Class destroyer, as it is on paper, not yet been built, you probably can work out some JV deal with the Russian, and have it cheaper, but I do think even without some sort of deal, it's more or less cheaper than a Flight III AB Class Destroyer. Which let's say it's 2.4 billion per, Vietnam can get 4 of these in their carrier group for 10 billions.

So, to recap, it would be around 51.6 billions for that wish list. Which leave around 10 billions for Vietnam to go after carrier air group. 



Carlosa said:


> I would get a ton of submarines and naval aviation for the most part, awacs, etc.



AWACS is a bit tricky, but tons of submarine seems to be a waste of money (I am a surface warfare guy) and you would probably want to even out the purchase a bit......

Which Surface ship you want Vietnam Navy to have?



Carlosa said:


> Dongguan? Very interesting, I'm often there.



Yes, that's where my mother ancestry was from. Her mother was born in a village in DongHuang (東坑鎮), which was a farm land back in 1940s, and now is probably one of the biggest industrial area in Southern China, we used to have 3 factory in 東坑 (Where my grandmother village was) a Steel Mill, a Lighter Factory and a Textile Factory, the first two went busted sometime during the 90s, and only the textile factory left.

I stopped going back to 東坑鎮 in the late 90s, and I google map it yesterday and see they have build a lot of houses and stuff in the tiny little town in my memory. 

Actually, if the political situation is not that bad, I would not mind retiring with my family back in my family house in 長安塘.

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## sinait

jhungary said:


> If you want to know, I am a holder also hold a Chinese Passport. And this April I paid 60,000 RMB taxes for 2016 on my share along with my brother and my sister to the Chinese Government from the family textile business in Guangdong, I have a home address and Telephone Phone Number in Dongguan, Guangdong and Hong Kong, I have a residence account registered with the Mainland Chinese Authority, I also hold a Swedish, British Passport on top of my American, Australian, Chinese Passport with a right to live in New Zealand (as per Trans Tasman Agreement), Mexico and Permanent Residence in Canada, is it a good enough answer for you?
> 
> @waz I was assured this type of harassment will stop, can you delete that member post and my post when you are done with.
> 
> Thank You


Thanks for clarifying.
Don't really understand why you are so sensitive over this.
Like I say, its just to reduce the animosity and confusion that some members have towards you.
I hope you don't see me as harassing you.
For that I apologize.
I have always had the view that you are knowledgeable and is valuable to this forum.
I am also not surprised that you hold so many passports since you shared with us that you work in the Intelligence area.
Nobody have issues with Gambit who takes US viewpoints strongly while showing US flags.

I do admire and learn from your wide knowledge and the effort you take to present your views though it is rather long winded at times.
As you may glean from my posts, I am not strongly pro China but rather a China admirer and well wisher, a well wisher for Philippines, Vietnam and Australia and a strong Asia.
Your views on Chinese matters are not controversial, its just an uneasy feeling having you on the opposite camp most of the time, haha. Sure wish you are on my side.

I have come to some conclusions about you and your job that I will keep to myself so as not to intrude further into your private affairs.
Anyway my apologies again if this matter had irritated or annoyed you.
I don't meant it to be that way and had wanted to bring it up in a friendly way.
Be assured this will be the last time I will be touching on this matter.
If you come across my posts on opposing sides, do not take it in an unfriendly way
Looking forward to when we will be posting on the same side.
Cheers
.


----------



## Dave1798

jhungary said:


> Japanese Ship is probably not the best to go, they are a bit over inflated in price, just like the American. I would also think it's not really good to try and mix Russian Ship and Japanese Ship together.
> 
> I think it's better for Vietnam, if they were given 60 billions, to get either all Russian Ship or all European Ship.



I agree Vietnam is better off purchasing all japanese(western design) or all russian not both. It will be less burden for Vietnam financially in the long run, Vietnam can't afford to operate both, it doesn't make sense financially and will cause problems with compatibility with other weapon systems and logistics. I think if Vietnam had that sort of money to spend, they would probably focus on their navy and air force.

Navy - new ASW helicopters e.g. mh60r seahawk, extra frigates and I would think these new frigates would specialize in air defence instead since Vietnam currently has none. Replacement of their aging corvettes, lots of designs available and can easily be built in their own shipyards. I don't think Vietnam is looking for or needs a carrier fleet though lol maybe 2 or 3 LHD e.g. mistral class or izumo class and which can also be used in humanitarian disasters and finally 2 or 3 replenishment ship with all these new ships they need to keep it sailing lol..

Air Force- replace aging fighters, ASW aircraft e.g. p8 poseidon, AWAC aircrafts, larger cargo aircrafts e.g. a400m and tanker aircraft currently Vietnam has no such aircraft in its fleet plus replacement of most of its aging rotary fleets.

Army - new tanks, ifv, apc and everything in between


----------



## jhungary

sinait said:


> Thanks for clarifying.
> Don't really understand why you are so sensitive over this.
> Like I say, its just to reduce the animosity and confusion that some members have towards you.
> I hope you don't see me as harassing you.
> For that I apologize.
> I have always had the view that you are knowledgeable and is valuable to this forum.
> I am also not surprised that you hold so many passports since you shared with us that you work in the Intelligence area.
> Nobody have issues with Gambit who takes US viewpoints strongly while showing US flags.
> 
> I do admire and learn from your wide knowledge and the effort you take to present your views though it is rather long winded at times.
> As you may glean from my posts, I am not strongly pro China but rather a China admirer and well wisher, a well wisher for Philippines, Vietnam and Australia and a strong Asia.
> Your views on Chinese matters are not controversial, its just an uneasy feeling having you on the opposite camp most of the time, haha. Sure wish you are on my side.
> 
> I have come to some conclusions about you and your job that I will keep to myself so as not to intrude further into your private affairs.
> Anyway my apologies again if this matter had irritated or annoyed you.
> I don't meant it to be that way and had wanted to bring it up in a friendly way.
> Be assured this will be the last time I will be touching on this matter.
> If you come across my posts on opposing sides, do not take it in an unfriendly way
> Looking forward to when we will be posting on the same side.
> Cheers
> .



It's not about sensitivity, it's about having been dealing with this since moment 0 when I join this forum 5 years ago, I am a bit annoyed. for me, I don't really care whether or not my view is viewed as Pro-China or Anti-China, you can call me a traitor if you want, I don't feel it's a crime to not have the same view with the same issue with other.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE CHINA the country, I hated the Chinese regime, I once started an open challenge for anyone to locate a single post with a single bad thing I said about China and the People, no one have been able to find anything, I do criticize the Chinese government policy a lot. I once said to one of the Chinese member, I believe regime comes and goes but country stays forever, if tomorrow the Chinese Government Regime crumble, would you still be considering me a China Hater? Just because I don't blindly follow the other Chinese and praise every little thing they do?

I believe points of argument is to debate instead of wherever where this person is from. I can say I was from Somalia, does that mean my voice counted less? If I have a point on a argument, I did not have them because I am an American, Australian etc or what's not, I have a point because I have a point, where I am from and where did I get this point from is a moot point, you can either agree or disagree my point, but people bringing in nationality in an equation is simply......annoying.

Thus I did not think it's right to accuse someone of being Indian, Pakistani, Vietnamese or something like that, if I have a point, argue my point, don't argue my nationality. Those point I made was because of my own knowledge, regardless where do I pick them up form. And I think people should have see that from the beginning. But after 5 years, about 100 question people ask before you, you sort of zone out and just ignore, report and move on. In the beginning, I tried to provide proof that I have this ID Card, this Passport, but now, meh, I don't care about it anymore.

If you understand it, please drop these type of question, it's unnecessary, so we can move on.

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## sinait

jhungary said:


> you can call me a traitor if you want


Oh my Gosh, definitely not.
I have my own apprehensions about China as well, though I would rather keep them private.


> Don't get me wrong, I LOVE CHINA the country


 Great


> I believe points of argument is to debate instead of wherever where this person is from.


 Agreed.
Though a little bit of where a person is coming from is helpful.


> But after 5 years, about 100 question people ask before you, you sort of zone out and just ignore, report and move on. In the beginning, I tried to provide proof that I have this ID Card, this Passport, but now, meh, I don't care about it anymore.
> If you understand it, please drop these type of question, it's unnecessary, so we can move on.


Sure.
I usually only browse the defense sections and previously don't participate in discussions.
Most probably such questions are deleted so I am not aware.
Maybe good to leave some around so people are aware that it is an old topic not to be revived.
Similarly many people call me Chinese, I just ignore them and never ever refute them.
I am Singaporean, period, albeit with a bit of Chinese bias, haha.
Cheers


----------



## Farhan Bohra

jhungary said:


> If you want to know, I am a holder also hold a Chinese Passport. And this April I paid 60,000 RMB taxes for 2016 on my share along with my brother and my sister to the Chinese Government from the family textile business in Guangdong, I have a home address and Telephone Phone Number in Dongguan, Guangdong and Hong Kong, I have a residence account registered with the Mainland Chinese Authority, I also hold a Swedish, British Passport on top of my American, Australian, Chinese Passport with a right to live in New Zealand (as per Trans Tasman Agreement), Mexico and Permanent Residence in Canada, is it a good enough answer for you?
> 
> @waz I was assured this type of harassment will stop, can you delete that member post and my post when you are done with.
> 
> Thank You



No body harassing you, just curious. How many time a person you find who hold 5 passports? 

But I want to ask, this is legal in China to hold dual citizenship?



jhungary said:


> I believe points of argument is to debate instead of wherever where this person is from. I can say I was from Somalia, does that mean my voice counted less? If I have a point on a argument, I did not have them because I am an American, Australian etc or what's not, I have a point because I have a point, where I am from and where did I get this point from is a moot point, you can either agree or disagree my point, but people bringing in nationality in an equation is simply......annoying.
> 
> Thus I did not think it's right to accuse someone of being Indian, Pakistani, Vietnamese or something like that, if I have a point, argue my point, don't argue my nationality. Those point I made was because of my own knowledge, regardless where do I pick them up form. And I think people should have see that from the beginning. But after 5 years, about 100 question people ask before you, you sort of zone out and just ignore, report and move on. In the beginning, I tried to provide proof that I have this ID Card, this Passport, but now, meh, I don't care about it anymore.
> 
> If you understand it, please drop these type of question, it's unnecessary, so we can move on.



If you say so. And if you what believe in. 
But these are not normal debates, in military debates allegiance is very important matter. One cant debate on military issues while acting as neutral. One cant be neutral on such issues. Military is an extension of politics afterall. 

Inside us, we already know where our allegiance lie, what we love and what we hate. There is no requirement of proving anything. Or showing ID and passports. 

But on such issues, one cant be neutral. But as for accusing nationality, that is not an accusation, that is clearing the matter for allegiance.

North Vietnam won the Viet War. not by equipment or exotic technology, they won because of one thing,,, allegiance. 

But as you say you are neutral,, that is kool. And nothing to worry about.

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## Viet

News of the day

The 10th "Vietnam Festival" opens in Tokyo, promoting friendship and understanding between VN and JP. The number of Vietnamese (200,000) living, working and studying in Japan reaches a new record.
















A 854 km freight cargo train route between Kunming (China) and Haiphong (Vietnam) is officially opened. The first cargo from China carries ore and raw materials for the chemical industry in 32 containers, according to the Jinlai Shunfa international logistics company. The cargo service starts once per week and later once per day. However due to renewed tensions between the countries, the cargo service could take a hit, in worst case VN/CN bilateral trades could come to a standstill.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> Japanese Ship is probably not the best to go, they are a bit over inflated in price, just like the American. I would also think it's not really good to try and mix Russian Ship and Japanese Ship together.
> 
> I think it's better for Vietnam, if they were given 60 billions, to get either all Russian Ship or all European Ship.
> 
> I think the combo of Lider-class destroyer and Admiral Grigorovich combo is quite lethal, combine with Akula Attack Sub. I would probably go with Mistral Class LHD instead of Izumo Class Carrier.
> 
> So, Mistral will cost around 800 millions per ship, 2 Mistral will be around 1.6 billions
> Akula class is about 2 billion per, let's say Vietnam is getting 6 (3 per carrier group), which is 12 billions
> Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate cost around 1.8 billions per ship, I reckon Vietnam can order and support 10 Frigate. Which is about 18 billions
> The wildcard, however, is the Lider Class destroyer, as it is on paper, not yet been built, you probably can work out some JV deal with the Russian, and have it cheaper, but I do think even without some sort of deal, it's more or less cheaper than a Flight III AB Class Destroyer. Which let's say it's 2.4 billion per, Vietnam can get 4 of these in their carrier group for 10 billions.
> 
> So, to recap, it would be around 51.6 billions for that wish list. Which leave around 10 billions for Vietnam to go after carrier air group.
> 
> 
> 
> AWACS is a bit tricky, but tons of submarine seems to be a waste of money (I am a surface warfare guy) and you would probably want to even out the purchase a bit......
> 
> Which Surface ship you want Vietnam Navy to have?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's where my mother ancestry was from. Her mother was born in a village in DongHuang (東坑鎮), which was a farm land back in 1940s, and now is probably one of the biggest industrial area in Southern China, we used to have 3 factory in 東坑 (Where my grandmother village was) a Steel Mill, a Lighter Factory and a Textile Factory, the first two went busted sometime during the 90s, and only the textile factory left.
> 
> I stopped going back to 東坑鎮 in the late 90s, and I google map it yesterday and see they have build a lot of houses and stuff in the tiny little town in my memory.
> 
> Actually, if the political situation is not that bad, I would not mind retiring with my family back in my family house in 長安塘.



Well, the Russian Lider destroyer class (as well as the aircraft carrier) have already been canceled in the latest Russian armament program, the new naval direction only includes small ships (up to 4500 tons) and submarines. 

I emphasize subs rather than surface ships because I don't give Vietnamese surface ships a lot of chances of surviving in the face of the PLAN and their C4ISR assets, plus their naval aviation and stand off cruise missile capabilities. Submarines on the other hand, can hide, survive and fight quite nicely in that situation. In the duel between subs and surface ships, I believe the subs fare much better, subs are just not easy to detect and they have shown that a number of times approaching American carriers undetected. As submarine crews like to say, there are 2 types of ships: subs and targets.

So in the end, same as the new direction of the Russian navy, small surface ships and subs. An amphibious force with 2 or 3 Osumi class ships, Naval aviation including the SU-34 as well as its upcoming electronic warfare version. Lots of anti ship missiles. C4ISR capabilities and a strong coastal array of anti ship missile batteries.

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## Carlosa

*Philippine, Vietnam navies play sports on South China Sea island*
MANILA (Reuters) - Philippine and Vietnamese navies have been playing soccer, volleyball and tug-of-war games together on a South China Sea island, the latest get-together by two countries concerned by Chinese assertiveness in the disputed waters.

The two sides played in mixed teams on Thursday (June 22) on Southwest Cay in the Spratly archipelago, the Philippine navy said, the third event of its kind since 2014 on an island held four decades ago by the Philippines, but now under Vietnamese control.

The games are among a series of exchanges between two countries, quietly demonstrating their unity in the face of Beijing's expanding presence and signs of militarisation of manmade islands in the Spratly chain.

Ariesh Climacosa of the Philippine Naval Forces West said the games showed how the two sides could get along and would trust and understand each other better.

Relations strengthened under the previous Philippine administration, leading to the signing of a strategic partnership in 2015, at a time when both countries were locked in fierce disputes with China and enjoying warm ties with the United States.

But ties have since become more uncertain, due largely to Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte's decision to charm rather than confront Beijing, while also turning more hostile towards Washington.


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## Aqsuperman

Another peek at VPN latest vessel, the HQ-18 or 18 for short, formerly ROKS Gimcheon a ex Pohang class corvette. WE have a clear look at the front armaments including the Oto Melara 76mm turret and the Sea Vulcan 25mm seven barrelled turret. The ship next to it is the elderly Petya class corvette. There is a belief that the ship arrival shall bolster the ASW capability for VPN surface force. But the completely different caliber ammunition will prove to be a formidable obstacle. That is if the ship sonar and depth charge system still intact, otherwise the ship will simply be another gunboat.

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## Carlosa

*Trump's South China Sea policy taking shape | The Japan Times*
Mark J. Valencia





*U.S. administration starts speaking softer while still showing a big stick*

*http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#.WU-H2LFh1_y*

HAIKOU, CHINA – The outlines of the Trump administration’s policy toward China and the South China Sea are emerging from a fog of confusing and contradictory statements and actions. The administration started off with a relatively belligerent posture toward China in general and its actions in the South China Sea in particular. But the administration seems to have moderated its stance. Indeed, the emerging policy is beginning to look somewhat familiar. It is essentially a continuation of the Obama administration’s policy — although it appears to have a heavier emphasis on a military component.

Rightly or wrongly, U.S. freedom of navigation operations (FONOPs) vis-a-vis China’s claims have become an indicator of U.S. resolve — at least in the view of some opinion leaders in the region. There were six legally confused and confusing FONOPs in the South China Sea against China’s claims during the Obama administration. But some eight months have passed since the last one on Oct. 16.

The Trump administration supposedly did not approve three U.S. Pacific Command (PACOM) requests to carry out new FONOPs against China’s claims in the South China Sea. The U.S. Pacific Fleet commander, Adm. Scott Swift, explained that “we just present the opportunities. … They are either taken advantage of or they’re not.”

It then began to appear that Trump, in his “let’s make a deal” approach to foreign policy, had backed off criticism and actions against China in general and in the South China Sea in particular in return for China’s assistance in stopping North Korea’s nuclear weapon and missile development programs.

This was the background to more recent U.S. statements and actions. In his address to the Shangri-La Dialogue in early June, U.S. Secretary of Defense James Mattis tried to balance between praising China for its help with North Korea and criticizing its “indisputable militarization of artificial islands” and “excessive maritime claims unsupported by international law.” But he upped the ante by adding that the U.S. “cannot and will not accept unilateral coercive changes to the status quo.” He also outlined his policy as a mix of supporting and as necessary, demonstrating, “the rules based international order”; encouraging a more interconnected region regarding security matters; enhancing U.S. military capabilities there; and reinforcing U.S. defense relations with allies and willing partners, including training and weapons sales. This is basically similar to former U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter’s stated approach to the region.

U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson has recently come out even stronger, telling Congress on June 14 that he has warned Chinese counterparts that their current foreign policy will “bring us into conflict.” He said that U.S.-China relations had reached “an inflection point” and could lead to war if not properly managed.

On June 21, after meeting in Washington with Chinese State Councilor Yang Jiechi and PLA Chief of Joint Staff Fang Fenghui as part of the new U.S.-China Diplomatic Security Dialogue, he said that he and Mattis “made clear” to their Chinese counterparts that the U.S. position remains the same. “We oppose changes to the status quo of the past through the militarization of outposts in the South China Sea and excessive maritime claims unsupported by international law, and we uphold freedom of navigation and overflight.” In seeming possible contradiction, Mattis added, “I’m committed to improving the U.S.-China defense relationship so that it remains a stabilizing element in our overall relationship.”

So this is — for what it is worth — the Trump administration’s policy toward the South China Sea. However, Mattis, Tillerson and Trump himself seem to be somewhat preoccupied with other international and domestic matters. PACOM commander Adm. Harry Harris has emerged as the “tip of the spear” for Washington’s strategic approach to China.

Indeed, according to security analyst Carl Thayer, Harris is “the very glue holding the traditional U.S. line together across Asia.” He is — at the very least — in charge of implementing policy. Some observers say the portion of Mattis’ Shangri-La speech criticizing China’s actions in the South China Sea reflected Harris’ view that the U.S. needs to have a more robust posture toward China there.

In Harris’ own words, “We will continue to cooperate where we can but have to be ready to confront if we must. So I simply continue to focus on building critical relationships while ensuring that we have credible combat power to back up our security commitments and to help American diplomacy operate from a position of strength.”

This more aggressive tactical approach may have been evidenced by recent U.S. actions in the region. In May, two aircraft carrier strike groups were deployed to the western Pacific, one of which undertook the first-ever drills in the South China Sea with Japan’s largest warship, the Izumo helicopter carrier. The first FONOP under the Trump administration occurred in late May when the USS Dewey made a provocative noninnocent passage within 12 nautical miles (22 km) of Mischief Reef, indirectly challenging China’s claim to sovereignty over the low tide feature. Mattis — who reportedly had asked PACOM for a strategy for the South China Sea — said the Dewey FONOP was part of U.S. strategy.

This FONOP was promptly followed by an in-your-face training exercise over the South China Sea with two B-1B Lancer heavy strategic bombers liaising with the Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer USS Sterett.

However, on the “carrot” end of the equation the Sterett made a scheduled port visit to Zhanjiang, a major node for China’s South Sea surface naval fleet. Leading the visit was the man who may replace Harris as PACOM next year — the commander of the Pacific Fleet, Adm. Swift. In keeping with Harris’ new preference for “speaking softly but carrying (showing) a big stick,” Swift downplayed FONOPs themselves in favor of America’s demonstration of strength by its “consistence presence” in the region.

This low-key statement was in keeping with a recent decision not to announce or highlight FONOPs in the South China Sea. Swift confirmed that the quieter approach equated to a softer U.S. posture in the region. Also announced in May was that China had been invited to participate in the 2018 Rim of the Pacific Exercise, known as RIMPAC — the world’s largest international naval exercise and hosted by the U.S. Navy in Hawaii.

The conclusion is that the Trump administration’s policy regarding the South China Sea is a continuation of the Obama administration’s policy but with more emphasis on the military dimension. However, if China is unwilling or unable to help sufficiently with North Korea, or with other “trade-offs” proposed by Trump, the military component of U.S. foreign policy may become the main or even sole approach.

_Mark J. Valencia is an adjunct senior scholar at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies in Haikou, China. A much longer version of this article first appeared in the IPP Review._

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## sahureka2

Aqsuperman said:


> Another peek at VPN latest vessel, the HQ-18 or 18 for short, formerly ROKS Gimcheon a ex Pohang class corvette. WE have a clear look at the front armaments including the Oto Melara 76mm turret and the Sea Vulcan 25mm seven barrelled turret. The ship next to it is the elderly Petya class corvette. There is a belief that the ship arrival shall bolster the ASW capability for VPN surface force. But the completely different caliber ammunition will prove to be a formidable obstacle. That is if the ship sonar and depth charge system still intact, otherwise the ship will simply be another gunboat.


1) turret and the Sea Vulcan *25mm* seven barrelled turret =. Not 25mm but *20mm*
2) There is a belief that the ship arrival shall bolster the ASW capability for VPN = As you can see it was delivered without 2 x Mark 32 triple torpedo tubes , If you want to use as ASW units you need to install the torpedos tubes again, then you should know if the sonar is still present or has been dismantled


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## Viet

Vietnam first ever large deployment to a foreign country as part of UN peace keeping operation. 70 medical personnel to South Sudan. Vietnamese military personnel will take over the control of the field hospital camp from the U.K. as well.

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## jhungary

Dave1798 said:


> I agree Vietnam is better off purchasing all japanese(western design) or all russian not both. It will be less burden for Vietnam financially in the long run, Vietnam can't afford to operate both, it doesn't make sense financially and will cause problems with compatibility with other weapon systems and logistics. I think if Vietnam had that sortof money to spend, they would probably focus on their navy and air force.
> 
> Navy - new ASW helicopters e.g. mh60r seahawk, extra frigates and I would think these new frigates would specialize in air defence instead since Vietnam currently has none. Replacement of their aging corvettes, lots of designs available and can easily be built in their own shipyards. I don't think Vietnam is looking for or needs a carrier fleet though lol maybe 2 or 3 LHD e.g. mistral class or izumo class and which can also be used in humanitarian disasters and finally 2 or 3 replenishment ship with all these new ships they need to keep it sailing lol..
> 
> Air Force- replace aging fighters, ASW aircraft e.g. p8 poseidon, AWAC aircrafts, larger cargo aircrafts e.g. a400m, air to air refuelling aircraft currently Vietnam has no such aircraft in its fleet and replacement of most of its aging rotary fleets.
> 
> Army - new tanks, ifv, apc and everything in between



Vietnam have a long coast line and a long thin strip of land, which mean Navy for the Vietnamese would be at the utmost importance. Because it give them strategic depth for defence need, otherwise a battle front would be confined, although it would have helped by inaccessible jungle, the land force without a great Navy would have suffer a lot if the enemy attack with mobility.

Therefore the revitalisation of VPN (or is it PVN?? Anyway) should take precedent than other branch, not even air force is that important.

And indeed, I don't think it's wise for VPN to operate both type of ships, either go all Russian, or go all European is the best way to go.

Would suggest a complement of large surface warship and smaller inland patrol ship. I don't think VPN needed replenishment ship, unless they change the direction into ocean going navy. They will probably need some capital ship before needing these replenishment ship.



Farhan Bohra said:


> No body harassing you, just curious. How many time a person you find who hold 5 passports?
> 
> But I want to ask, this is legal in China to hold dual citizenship?



If you go to Europe, a lot of the European have multiple Passport, A friend of mine is a Danish-Swede having his heritage from Germany (Holstein Area), but have been working in the UK, and he is married to a French/Italian citizen, in all, he have 6 passport.

And no China does not allow Dual Citizenship, there are loop hole for Chinese Citizens of Hong Kong or Macau origin to have multiple citizenship, that is not illegal.




> If you say so. And if you what believe in.
> But these are not normal debates, in military debates allegiance is very important matter. One cant debate on military issues while acting as neutral. One cant be neutral on such issues. Military is an extension of politics afterall.
> 
> Inside us, we already know where our allegiance lie, what we love and what we hate. There is no requirement of proving anything. Or showing ID and passports.
> 
> But on such issues, one cant be neutral. But as for accusing nationality, that is not an accusation, that is clearing the matter for allegiance.
> 
> North Vietnam won the Viet War. not by equipment or exotic technology, they won because of one thing,,, allegiance.
> 
> But as you say you are neutral,, that is kool. And nothing to worry about.



A old mentor of mine once told me this

"If you are a patriot, do not join the military."

It may sounded strange to you, but nationalism and allegiance often lead to illogical goal or action. The problem is that, war is an individual affair, yes may wear the uniform and swore allegiance to a nation, but in the end, you fought for yourself. Nothing come close, not even your country.

What people see in their own military as the guardian of a nation is actually more of a farce, war, at grunt level, is never about patriotic duty or national gain, war, at grunt level, is about individual survival, how do you carry on for another day so you can fight another day and until the big day come and you go home. That is what real war to real soldier. Not some over romantic account for love and country...

While I understand why you say this, but I would have to disagree, war fought the same way, regardless of your origin. For me, opinion of war in all aspect is the same whether you come from China, Australia, Canada, or America. I have been around the world, talk to many service member from different country, I even stole some of their uniform (Yes, I did) and I have a pretty balance look on military science all over the world, and I can tell you this, there aren't much of a different from China to Germany.

And no, I would not say Vietnam won the war because of its allegiance, in fact, I am not quite sure Vietnam has actually won. In a strategic stand point, what the US want to do is to rid Vietnam of communism and uniting the country under freedom and capitalism, that is their ultimate goal. Vietnam did indeed unified, and Vietnam loses a lot of time/resource to win that war, time and resource that could have been well used and distributed to develop the country otherwise not touched by war. and perhaps the most important things coming out of Vietnam War is the death of Communism, today, beside a few die hard hold out which not affecting the world stage, communism is all but disappear, and Vietnam has also coming out of their communist shell and into the 21 century.

So basically, what Vietnam do now is what the American wanted back in 1960s, the basic objective is the same, it just take 50 years of struggle to realise this. Wasn't that mean the American have achieve their objective? Albeit 50 years late.


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## TenLua

jhungary said:


> Vietnam have a long coast line and a long thin strip of land, which mean Navy for the Vietnamese would be at the utmost importance. Because it give them strategic depth for defence need, otherwise a battle front would be confined, although it would have helped by inaccessible jungle, the land force without a great Navy would have suffer a lot if the enemy attack with mobility.
> 
> Therefore the revitalisation of VPN (or is it PVN?? Anyway) should take precedent than other branch, not even air force is that important.
> 
> And indeed, I don't think it's wise for VPN to operate both type of ships, either go all Russian, or go all European is the best way to go.
> 
> Would suggest a complement of large surface warship and smaller inland patrol ship. I don't think VPN needed replenishment ship, unless they change the direction into ocean going navy. They will probably need some capital ship before needing these replenishment ship.
> 
> 
> 
> If you go to Europe, a lot of the European have multiple Passport, A friend of mine is a Danish-Swede having her heritage from Germany (Holstein Area), but have been working in the UK, and he is married to a French/Italian citizen, in all, he have 6 passport.
> 
> And no China does not allow Dual Citizenship, there are loop hole for Chinese Citizens of Hong Kong or Macau origin to have multiple citizenship, that is not illegal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A old mentor of mine once told me this
> 
> "If you are a patriot, do not join the military."
> 
> It may sounded strange to you, but nationalism and allegiance often lead to illogical goal or action. The problem is that, war is an individual affair, yes may wear the uniform and swore allegiance to a nation, but in the end, you fought for yourself. Nothing come close, not even your country.
> 
> What people see in their own military as the guardian of a nation is actually more of a farce, war, at grunt level, is never about patriotic duty or national gain, war, at grunt level, is about individual survival, how do you carry on for another day so you can fight another day and until the big day come and you go home. That is what real war to real soldier. Not some over romantic account for love and country...
> 
> While I understand why you say this, but I would have to disagree, war fought the same way, regardless of your origin. For me, opinion of war in all aspect is the same whether you come from China, Australia, Canada, or America. I have been around the world, talk to many service member from different country, I even stole some of their uniform (Yes, I did) and I have a pretty balance look on military science all over the world, and I can tell you this, there aren't much of a different from China to Germany.
> 
> And no, I would not say Vietnam won the war because of its allegiance, in fact, I am not quite sure Vietnam has actually won. In a strategic stand point, what the US want to do is to rid Vietnam of communism and uniting the country under freedom and capitalism, that is their ultimate goal. Vietnam did indeed unified, and Vietnam loses a lot of time/resource to win that war, time and resource that could have been well used and distributed to develop the country otherwise not touched by war. and perhaps the most important things coming out of Vietnam War is the death of Communism, today, beside a few die hard hold out which not affecting the world stage, communism is all but disappear, and Vietnam has also coming out of their communist shell and into the 21 century.
> 
> So basically, what Vietnam do now is what the American wanted back in 1960s, the basic objective is the same, it just take 50 years of struggle to realise this. Wasn't that mean the American have achieve their objective? Albeit 50 years late.




Some truth to this. But Vietnam would have to be our bitch had we won/achieved our objective. Vietnam would have owed her success to us had we won. Look at south korea for an example. Obviously this is not the case when it comes to Vietnam.

She achieved her objective instead, whether you want to admit it or not. She plays by her rules, and no one can tell her what to do. At face value, the victory seems questionable, but on a historical perspective, it's undeniable. This is often denied out of insecurity from those who want to take away from her to give comfort to their own low national self-esteem.


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## Viet

It is worthless to discuss over and over again who wins the Vietnam war. The yellow flag does not fly over Vietnam...but in some countries like Australia. Cheers.

@jhungary


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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> Vietnam have a long coast line and a long thin strip of land, which mean Navy for the Vietnamese would be at the utmost importance. Because it give them strategic depth for defence need, otherwise a battle front would be confined, although it would have helped by inaccessible jungle, the land force without a great Navy would have suffer a lot if the enemy attack with mobility.
> 
> Therefore the revitalisation of VPN (or is it PVN?? Anyway) should take precedent than other branch, not even air force is that important.
> 
> And indeed, I don't think it's wise for VPN to operate both type of ships, either go all Russian, or go all European is the best way to go.
> 
> Would suggest a complement of large surface warship and smaller inland patrol ship. I don't think VPN needed replenishment ship, unless they change the direction into ocean going navy. They will probably need some capital ship before needing these replenishment ship..



Well, If as you said, a navy and I think you mean a surface navy is of the utmost importance for Vietnam, then you need to address the issue of how its going to survive against the PLAN. Putting money into ships that will have to stay in the ports in case of conflict is not a wise decision other than having the minimum of ships that are needed for peacetime patrol roles. And on top of that, now there are 3 chinese bases with airfields in the Spratleys plus the upcoming chinese carriers.


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## Dave1798

jhungary said:


> Therefore the revitalisation of VPN (or is it PVN?? Anyway) should take precedent than other branch, not even air force is that important.



I think for Vietnam in regards to a possible south china sea conflict, their air force would be just as important as their navy. I'm not sure whether maritime patrol aircrafts and ASW aircrafts would be operated by their navy or air force, but regardless they offer capabilities that are very important in maritime environment if Vietnam wants to restrict China in SCS. Upgrades to C4ISR and with AWAC aircrafts from their air force would give Vietnam the ability to see and shoot from various air (fighters armed with anti ship missile, asw aircraft etc..) and sea platforms( frigates, corvettes and submarines), a capability which is currently non existent in their armed force. By having the airforce work with the navy it's like a force multiplier, which is good for Vietnam because it's navy will never match PLAN in regards to it's size. Modern militaries need their military branches operating together and not separately.

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## Viva_Viet

jhungary said:


> And no, I would not say Vietnam won the war because of its allegiance, in fact, I am not quite sure Vietnam has actually won. In a strategic stand point, what the US want to do is to rid Vietnam of communism and uniting the country under freedom and capitalism, that is their ultimate goal. Vietnam did indeed unified, and Vietnam loses a lot of time/resource to win that war, time and resource that could have been well used and distributed to develop the country otherwise not touched by war. and perhaps the most important things coming out of Vietnam War is the death of Communism, today, beside a few die hard hold out which not affecting the world stage, communism is all but disappear, and Vietnam has also coming out of their communist shell and into the 21 century.
> 
> So basically, what Vietnam do now is what the American wanted back in 1960s, the basic objective is the same, it just take 50 years of struggle to realise this. Wasn't that mean the American have achieve their objective? Albeit 50 years late.


VN war was Not abt Communism vs Capitalism, its abt controlling the strategic position in the region. VN is in the center of ASEAN region. From Da Nang province, the air force can control the whole region.






Ho CHi MInh dismissed communist party in 1946 and hoped US would support VN against France colonies
. But every one knew that US supported France to keep occupying VN instead.

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## Carlosa

Dave1798 said:


> I think for Vietnam in regards to a possible south china sea conflict, their air force would be just as important as their navy. I'm not sure whether maritime patrol aircrafts and ASW aircrafts would be operated by their navy or air force, but regardless they offer capabilities that are very important in maritime environment if Vietnam wants to restrict China in SCS. Upgrades to C4ISR and with AWAC aircrafts from their air force would give Vietnam the ability to see and shoot from various air (fighters armed with anti ship missile, asw aircraft etc..) and sea platforms( frigates, corvettes and submarines), a capability which is currently non existent in their armed force. By having the airforce work with the navy it's like a force multiplier, which is good for Vietnam because it's navy will never match PLAN in regards to it's size. Modern militaries need their military branches operating together and not separately.



That is exactly my point also. I don't see any surface ships been able to do anything against the PLAN, they'll be busy trying to hide and survive, that's why I advocate for subs.

The air force and coastal missile batteries has much better chances against the PLAN since they can always launch saturation missile strikes with some positive results. Every ship has a missile saturation point after which it gets toasted. That's a fact. VN needs to get into the next generation of faster missiles such as Brahmos and Zircon. 

VN has already set up a nice air defense network linking all the radars and air defense assets, there are some small satellites already, 2 very advance radar satellites are going to be provided by Japan and it seems like an order for 3 C-295 AWACS is imminent, so there is the C4ISR network in progress. Air defense is quite ok and the S-400 is expected to be ordered soon.

With limited resources, the money has to be allocated where it makes sense and can provide more bang for the dollar. A new order of subs would be very ice.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> You poor thing. It is OK if you are GAY.
> But it is not nice for you to openly solicit other Gays in this forum.
> You will have better luck if you do something to that face of yours.
> .





TenLua said:


> LOL defensive are we? It's a simple question, I don't understand why you got so emotional about it. I can understand if you're sensitive but calm down. You don't have to be so anal about it lol.
> 
> Guys can talk like they're a teenage girl, I have nothing against that. You are one unstable individual, but it's all good, carry on lol


Can we stop such discussion please?



Dave1798 said:


> I think for Vietnam in regards to a possible south china sea conflict, their air force would be just as important as their navy. I'm not sure whether maritime patrol aircrafts and ASW aircrafts would be operated by their navy or air force, but regardless they offer capabilities that are very important in maritime environment if Vietnam wants to restrict China in SCS. Upgrades to C4ISR and with AWAC aircrafts from their air force would give Vietnam the ability to see and shoot from various air (fighters armed with anti ship missile, asw aircraft etc..) and sea platforms( frigates, corvettes and submarines), a capability which is currently non existent in their armed force. By having the airforce work with the navy it's like a force multiplier, which is good for Vietnam because it's navy will never match PLAN in regards to it's size. Modern militaries need their military branches operating together and not separately.


VN patrol aircraft capacity is limited. There is Casa212 and other small aircraft types but we need long range jet powered patrol aircraft. Satellite surveillance is limited too. So improving surveillance capabilities is necessary.

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## Viet

Donald Trump can be happy. As campaign to ease the US government complaint over Vietnam increasing trade surplus, Vietnamese companies buy more US products and services. The new Viet Bamboo Airways is negotiating with Boeing to buy 15 (737Max and 777X) airplanes to operate in 2018.

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## Shotgunner51

Pre-warning: Dialogue on personal matters can be carried out in PM or members' message walls, here on this thread please stay on topic.



Viet said:


> Can we stop such discussion please?


Yes, please report when there's violation, thanks!
@ahojunk @The Eagle @Sasquatch

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## Dave1798

Carlosa said:


> That is exactly my point also. I don't see any surface ships been able to do anything against the PLAN, they'll be busy trying to hide and survive, that's why I advocate for subs.
> 
> The air force and coastal missile batteries has much better chances against the PLAN since they can always launch saturation missile strikes with some positive results. Every ship has a missile saturation point after which it gets toasted. That's a fact. VN needs to get into the next generation of faster missiles such as Brahmos and Zircon.
> 
> VN has already set up a nice air defense network linking all the radars and air defense assets, there are some small satellites already, 2 very advance radar satellites are going to be provided by Japan and it seems like an order for 3 C-295 AWACS is imminent, so there is the C4ISR network in progress. Air defense is quite ok and the S-400 is expected to be ordered soon.
> 
> With limited resources, the money has to be allocated where it makes sense and can provide more bang for the dollar. A new order of subs would be very ice.



Yes I think Vietnam is aware of this anyways, so these new purchases are a good start. CASA C-295 AWACS is a good option for Vietnam, it's cheaper to purchase and through life-cost is less expensive than other aircrafts out there, plus I think Vietnam already operates 3 C-295 so spare parts and training can be saved.

I would say Vietnam has one of the best sub fleet in ASEAN right now, it would be nice but very expensive to order more and also subs are most expensive equipment to operate and maintain.. I think the next time Vietnam goes shopping for subs is when they replace the Kilo-class but that will be decades away.



Viet said:


> VN patrol aircraft capacity is limited. There is Casa212 and other small aircraft types but we need long range jet powered patrol aircraft. Satellite surveillance is limited too. So improving surveillance capabilities is necessary.



I agree, but Vietnam is making progress. I know VN is looking to purchase more maritime patrol aircraft, I'm guessing used P-3 orion is a safe choice for VN because its proven but is prop powered and not jet. P-8 is another option, much newer aircraft, can work with UAV and is future proof but also expensive. Besides US, Vietnam can look at European platform, Saab offers maritime patrol aircrafts both prop and jet powered or even Embraer from Brazil.

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## Carlosa

Dave1798 said:


> I think the next time Vietnam goes shopping for subs is when they replace the Kilo-class but that will be decades away..



I'm pretty sure there is going to be more subs in addition to the Kilos. They've been negotiating with Italy for the S-1000 for a while now.

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## Carlosa

Vietnamese in Saigon protest against HD-981 oil rig moving into Vietnam's EEZ in South China Sea this morning. One activist is arrested.


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## AViet

Please use the correct term HCM city.

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## Viet

Dave1798 said:


> Yes I think Vietnam is aware of this anyways, so these new purchases are a good start. CASA C-295 AWACS is a good option for Vietnam, it's cheaper to purchase and through life-cost is less expensive than other aircrafts out there, plus I think Vietnam already operates 3 C-295 so spare parts and training can be saved.
> 
> I would say Vietnam has one of the best sub fleet in ASEAN right now, it would be nice but very expensive to order more and also subs are most expensive equipment to operate and maintain.. I think the next time Vietnam goes shopping for subs is when they replace the Kilo-class but that will be decades away.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but Vietnam is making progress. I know VN is looking to purchase more maritime patrol aircraft, I'm guessing used P-3 orion is a safe choice for VN because its proven but is prop powered and not jet. P-8 is another option, much newer aircraft, can work with UAV and is future proof but also expensive. Besides US, Vietnam can look at European platform, Saab offers maritime patrol aircrafts both prop and jet powered or even Embraer from Brazil.


P3 aircraft has proved as a great disaster for German airforce, so I doubt Vietnam will acquire the aircraft. There are alternatives from European companies.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> P3 aircraft has proved as a great disaster for German airforce, so I doubt Vietnam will acquire the aircraft. There are alternatives from European companies.



Can you go into more detail on that?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Can you go into more detail on that?


an article of "Der Spiegel"
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/so...euge-nur-bedingt-einsatzbereit-a-1124072.html






in brief:

- the German airforce acquired 8 second hand P3 from the Dutch in 2006.
- in total, the German government spends more than 1.2 billion euro for the purchase and maintenance by 2016.
- no P3 was operational during an inspection in September 2016 due to necessary maintenance and other various problems.
- 173 million euro more from now to 2020 are necessary to make the birds to fly.

- one P3 spends as little as 2.5 hours mid-air during the last 10 year.

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## Viet

*Rebecca Rusch's 1,200-Mile Ride to Find Her Father...and Herself*
MONDAY, JUNE 26, 2017 AT 7:58 A.M.
BY GABE FINE




EXPAND
Rebecca Rusch and her partner, Huyen Nyugen, on the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
courtesy Josh Letchworth


When professional endurance mountain biker Rebecca Rusch rode the 1,200-mile-long Ho Chi Minh Trail that runs through Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in 2015, it was the culmination of another long journey.

In 1972 her father, an American soldier in the Vietnam War, had been in a plane shot down over the trail. For over thirty years, Rusch and her family were unsure if he was alive, if he had become a prisoner of war, or if he had been killed that day. But in 2007, a search-and-recovery mission finally identified his remains.

"There was always doubt growing up," says Rusch. "I had dreams that I would meet him in a coffee shop and tell him about my life. You would see these movies about prisoners of war who had started new families in Vietnam. Those dreams stopped when they found his remains." Yet for Rusch, the sure knowledge of her father's death was not only the end of something, but a beginning. Rusch had never known her father, who died when she was three; she now decided to go out and discover who her father really was.

Riding the Ho Chi Minh Trail, a network of roads built during the war to provide logistical support for the Vietnamese Army and Viet Cong, to find her father's crash site seemed a perfect collision of Rush's cycling world and her personal quest. In 2013, the idea was green-lighted by Red Bull Media House, which would follow her with a documentary crew. The resulting film, _Blood Road_, follows Rusch on her journey alongside Vietnamese cyclist Huyen Nguyen through more than a thousand miles of jungle.





EXPAND
Rebecca Rusch posing in Vietnam.
courtesy Josh Letchworth

*RELATED STORIES*

*Five Tips for Enjoying Life on the Rocks in Colorado*
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Though the 1,200-mile trek required biking, kayaking and hiking on foot over rigorous terrain, Rusch is no stranger to massive feats of physical exertion. Proudly nicknamed the "Queen of Pain," she has won countless endurance mountain-biking races, including the iconic Leadville Trail 100, which she won four times in a row between 2009 and 2012. But the great test of this Vietnam trip was emotional. "The physical riding wasn't the hardest part," remembers Rusch. "The challenge was to be vulnerable, to be open –– to my crew, to Huyen, to myself."

The journey became a perspective-altering voyage through Rusch's own history as well as Vietnam. "It ended up opening my eyes through seeing what the other side experienced," says Rusch. "The war was 45 years ago, but it is still affecting people's lives there."

Rusch's partner, Huyen, grew up with a bomb crater in her yard. At one point in the film, she tells Rusch that she never thought of the men like her father, who bombed her country, as real humans...until Rusch shows Huyen a photograph of her dad. For Rusch, this and other moments of humanization and understanding across cultures became the heart of the journey. "In the States, we don't live with conflict in our back yard," she says. "I think if everyone could see what it's like where we were, a lot of people's perspectives would change."




EXPAND
Cycling the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
courtesy Josh Letchworth

Rusch still acts in service of this belief. Last November, she returned to Vietnam, where she guided fifteen bikers for eight days along the middle portion of the Ho Chi Minh Trail. "I wanted to go back and ride, of course, because it is beautiful, but I also wanted to show others the bomb craters and the villages I saw," explains Rusch. The trip also raised funds to help clear unexploded American ordnance –– land mines –– still littered across the country, endangering Vietnamese lives. In August, she will return again to embed with a de-mining team, Mines Advisory Group.

When asked why she chose to participate in such grueling, difficult expeditions for a career, for many years Rusch had no answer. "I think my dad brought me there to teach me a lesson," she says now. "He gave me a purpose for riding. I could use my bike as a vehicle for change."

_Blood Road _will be shown at the Bluebird Theater at 7 p.m. Tuesday, June 27, at the Bluebird Theater, 3317 East Colfax Avenue; Rusch will be in attendance to talk about her film. Tickets are $10; get them here.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Faces New Oil Dispute With China After Beijing Cuts Visit Short*
TAIPEI — 
https://www.voanews.com/a/vietnam-f...beijing-cuts-visit-short/3915859.html?ref=yfp

China and Vietnam face a stiff new test in avoiding a showdown over undersea oil drilling after Beijing cut short a high-level meeting last week, but experts say the two sides will eventually patch things over. 

Fan Changlong, vice chairman of China’s Central Military Commission left early from a “defense border meeting” in Vietnam Thursday due to “working arrangements,” the official Xinhua News Agency in Beijing reported. Fan had met earlier in the week with Vietnam’s Communist Party general secretary, president and prime minister.

*Talks cancelled*

Neither side is saying officially whether something else led to the cancellation. Analysts who track Vietnam believe it comes down to a disputed South China Sea oil exploration tract in Vietnam’s hands as well as Hanoi’s recent contact with Chinese rivals Japan and the United States. 

“Most analysts believe China was either sending Vietnam a signal about its deepening ties with the U.S. and Japan or pressing it to stop exploring for oil near China’s nine-dash line or maybe both,” said Murray Hiebert, senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank in Washington.

*China claims most of South China Sea*

China claims more than 90 percent of the sea, citing a so-called “nine-dash” demarcation line, though a world arbitration court rejected the legal basis for that claim in 2016.

“Unless Hanoi reads the signal correctly and makes the changes China demands, we can expect Beijing to send more warning shots across Vietnam’s bow in the months to come,” Hiebert said.

Beijing claims to the 3.5 million-square-kilometer sea overlap Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone 370 kilometers off its east and south coasts.

*Vietnam explores for oil*

China probably pulled its general out of the talks to warn Vietnam about oil exploration at block 136, said Le Hong Hiep, research fellow with ISEAS Yusof Ishak Institute in Singapore. The block lies southeast of mainland Vietnam and near a nine-dash line that China uses to mark its maritime claims stretching from Brunei and Malaysia past the Philippines to Taiwan.

Before cutting short his visit, the Chinese general told Vietnamese leaders the South China Sea islands had belonged to China “since ancient times,” Xinhua said. China uses historic usage as a basis for its maritime claims. 

“From the Vietnamese perspective, it’s on the continental shelf of Vietnam and Vietnam has sovereign rights over that area, and furthermore after the ruling last year by the arbitral tribunal, China does not have any legitimate claim over that area,” Le said.

*Other reasons for the general to leave*

China probably bristled further when the Vietnamese prime minister met U.S. President Donald Trump in May and a group of Japanese politicians the following week. China resents Japan and the United States for offering military aid for Southeast Asian claimants to the disputed sea. 

Oil exploration disputes have caused previous confrontations in the volatile China-Vietnam maritime rivalry, giving the latest disagreement a risky edge.

*Past incidents*

In 2011, Chinese vessels, in the same region in question today, cut a cable being placed underwater by a Vietnamese survey crew, the government in Hanoi said then. In 2014, vessels rammed one another as China’s chief offshore driller positioned an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam.

Disputes over maritime sovereignty led to deadly clashes between Vietnam and China in 1974 and 1988, as well.

Hanoi’s state-owned oil firm Petrovietnam says on its website that in 2013 it had signed a contract to explore for oil again at block 136. 

“But China insists it’s still a disputed area and they believe that Vietnam is violating a common understanding between the leaderships of the two countries,” Le said. “In the background there is some resentment against Vietnam’s recent rapprochement with the U.S. and Japan as well, so I think there are a few things at work here.”

*Reconciliation expected *

Vietnam will probably try to put aside the Chinese general’s sudden departure to get along with China, experts say.

“Vietnam cannot afford to have permanent antagonistic relations with China or to go out of their way to antagonize China because they have to sleep with their eyes open every night,” said Carl Thayer, Southeast Asia-specialized emeritus professor of politics at The University of New South Wales in Australia. China has the world’s third strongest armed forces after the United States and Russia.

*Calculated exchange*

Exchanges over border issues work for both sides, he added. “One, it’s a positive step, but two it also served propaganda functions for both sides to beam back into their country, to netizens who hate each other, cooperation of a positive nature.” 

Vietnam and China stepped up dialogue after the world arbitration ruling. Border defense talks had been in place since 2013. Senior leaders also met in January to discuss maritime cooperation that could include a joint search for undersea oil or gas. Both countries also value the sea's fisheries. 

China, for its part “has attached high importance to the development of military relations with Vietnam and is willing to join hands with the Vietnam side to further push forward the ties,” Xinhua quotes the Chinese general saying last week. 

“Both countries know that they will have to continue to work towards finding a balance where they can both benefit economically and co-exist politically,” said Jonathan Spangler, director of the South China Sea Think Tank in Taipei.

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## Viet

Tokyo, June 25. 400 Japanese students sit down for the first ever "Vietnamese language" national exam of Japan. The test is hosted by the Japan's Southeast Asian linguistics exchange and universalisation. Experts from Japan College of Foreign Languages predict, thousands of Japanese would take the next exam as studying in Vietnam becomes popular. Interesting stuff.







The image of America in the world has sharply deteriorated after Donald Trump takes office. Interesting, the US is seen more in better light in only two countries: Vietnam and Russia. The approval rating of Vietnamese towards America increases from 76 to 84 percent according to survey of the Pew Research Center.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> It is worthless to discuss over and over again who wins the Vietnam war. The yellow flag does not fly over Vietnam...but in some countries like Australia. Cheers.
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> View attachment 406296



lol, It wasn't me who brought this topic up, and I am just saying what I thought about the war. The outcome of the war is hazy at best, many Military Scientist believe the result of the war is not very clean cut as it was said by most of almost everyone... Whether they had involved in the war or not.



Dave1798 said:


> I think for Vietnam in regards to a possible south china sea conflict, their air force would be just as important as their navy. I'm not sure whether maritime patrol aircrafts and ASW aircrafts would be operated by their navy or air force, but regardless they offer capabilities that are very important in maritime environment if Vietnam wants to restrict China in SCS. Upgrades to C4ISR and with AWAC aircrafts from their air force would give Vietnam the ability to see and shoot from various air (fighters armed with anti ship missile, asw aircraft etc..) and sea platforms( frigates, corvettes and submarines), a capability which is currently non existent in their armed force. By having the airforce work with the navy it's like a force multiplier, which is good for Vietnam because it's navy will never match PLAN in regards to it's size. Modern militaries need their military branches operating together and not separately.



If we have to look at a SCS conflict, the war would most likely decided at sea. The Airpower of Vietnam is multi-fold weaker than the Chinese (even with only South Military Command against the whole Vietnamese Air Force, on a standalone engagement, Vietnam Airforce would probably got wipe out pretty soon, as the war start and China will gain Air Superiority in the opening hours. And with Air Force gone, Vietnam Navy would be a sitting duck without Air Cover, especially so now China have 2 Aircraft Carrier. Unless Vietnam can achieve 2 things in a battle with China..

1.) They can lure the Chinese Air Force out of the ocean and into Vietnam Airspace, which combine with SAM and other Air Defence System, there may be a chance, but that would totally depends on the Chinese.

2.) Combine Service Warship and Air Power to make a stance, which effectively Combine the Navy and the Air Force and form an Advance Air Defence System that way.

That would mean the Air Force would have been playing a secondary role where surface ship would act as Radar Warning system, directing the Air force plane to intercept the incoming air threat, the Navy could also thin out the air threat a bit, which mean you will need Air Warfare Destroyer/Frigate, and Duel Role fighter (along the line of F-16, F-2, Su-24 or Su-34.)

Would Strongly not recommend buying any AWACS until you have enough resource to make sure they are staying alive in battle, otherwise it would have been a moot point because Land Base Radar would have already cover the range out to the sea already.




Carlosa said:


> Well, If as you said, a navy and I think you mean a surface navy is of the utmost importance for Vietnam, then you need to address the issue of how its going to survive against the PLAN. Putting money into ships that will have to stay in the ports in case of conflict is not a wise decision other than having the minimum of ships that are needed for peacetime patrol roles. And on top of that, now there are 3 chinese bases with airfields in the Spratleys plus the upcoming chinese carriers.



Why you need surface ships?

The problem for a VN/CN engagement would mean an almost total destruction with all Vietnamese Naval Asset in the region, thus all naval base will be attacked by the Chinese by both air and sea. 

Problem with Submarine is that submarine cannot stay long underwater and cannot chase down modern warship (which are doing well over 30 knots) and cannot stay underwater for a long period, basically you can stay as long as the provision allowed, and then you either need to tend to them or have to port, which is hard because almost all Naval Base are within Striking range from China. Unless you can dealt with the PLAN within a month or so before your provision ran out, you are not going to do much with a full submarine force.

On the other hand, Vietnam Air Force is not a remote match for PLAAF, that mean you either need to draw them close to Vietnam soil which they can be engaged by advance ADS deployed all over Vietnam or you will have to go up and fight them air-air, which is bad.

The only way you can remotely win a war with China is to use an Air/Sea Battle Concept developed by the United States Marine Corp which detail how a small force with limited air and sea power can engage and win a A2AD war with a near peer or better enemy.

What Air/Sea Doctrine present is that a war can be fought with a connection between Air and Sea power, which you uses your air force to support your navy and uses your navy to support the Air Force. And you cannot do that with most of your ship are sub. You can't use them to support the airforce. That's why you are going to need surface ship..


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## TenLua

jhungary said:


> lol, It wasn't me who brought this topic up, and I am just saying what I thought about the war. The outcome of the war is hazy at best, many Military Scientist believe the result of the war is not very clean cut as it was said by most of almost everyone... Whether they had involved in the war or not.
> 
> 
> 
> If we have to look at a SCS conflict, the war would most likely decided at sea. The Airpower of Vietnam is multi-fold weaker than the Chinese (even with only South Military Command against the whole Vietnamese Air Force, on a standalone engagement, Vietnam Airforce would probably got wipe out pretty soon, as the war start and China will gain Air Superiority in the opening hours. And with Air Force gone, Vietnam Navy would be a sitting duck without Air Cover, especially so now China have 2 Aircraft Carrier. Unless Vietnam can achieve 2 things in a battle with China..
> 
> 1.) They can lure the Chinese Air Force out of the ocean and into Vietnam Airspace, which combine with SAM and other Air Defence System, there may be a chance, but that would totally depends on the Chinese.
> 
> 2.) Combine Service Warship and Air Power to make a stance, which effectively Combine the Navy and the Air Force and form an Advance Air Defence System that way.
> 
> That would mean the Air Force would have been playing a secondary role where surface ship would act as Radar Warning system, directing the Air force plane to intercept the incoming air threat, the Navy could also thin out the air threat a bit, which mean you will need Air Warfare Destroyer/Frigate, and Duel Role fighter (along the line of F-16, F-2, Su-24 or Su-34.)
> 
> Would Strongly not recommend buying any AWACS until you have enough resource to make sure they are staying alive in battle, otherwise it would have been a moot point because Land Base Radar would have already cover the range out to the sea already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why you need surface ships?
> 
> The problem for a VN/CN engagement would mean an almost total destruction with all Vietnamese Naval Asset in the region, thus all naval base will be attacked by the Chinese by both air and sea.
> 
> Problem with Submarine is that submarine cannot stay long underwater and cannot chase down modern warship (which are doing well over 30 knots) and cannot stay underwater for a long period, basically you can stay as long as the provision allowed, and then you either need to tend to them or have to port, which is hard because almost all Naval Base are within Striking range from China. Unless you can dealt with the PLAN within a month or so before your provision ran out, you are not going to do much with a full submarine force.
> 
> On the other hand, Vietnam Air Force is not a remote match for PLAAF, that mean you either need to draw them close to Vietnam soil which they can be engaged by advance ADS deployed all over Vietnam or you will have to go up and fight them air-air, which is bad.
> 
> The only way you can remotely win a war with China is to use an Air/Sea Battle Concept developed by the United States Marine Corp which detail how a small force with limited air and sea power can engage and win a A2AD war with a near peer or better enemy.
> 
> What Air/Sea Doctrine present is that a war can be fought with a connection between Air and Sea power, which you uses your air force to support your navy and uses your navy to support the Air Force. And you cannot do that with most of your ship are sub. You can't use them to support the airforce. That's why you are going to need surface ship..



Nevermind the fact that the chinese military has only ever used, and is only good at one tactic; the human meat shield. 

I've never seen more assumptions masquerading as facts in one post.


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

R95-300

Good enough for several thousand kilometers, maybe Beijing in range.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> R95-300
> 
> Good enough for several thousand kilometers, maybe Beijing in range.


ha ha ha...nice stuff. Maybe I will write later a bit of Vietnam military doctrine and strategy that have not changed much since centuries. ok since we can´t avoid of talking on China, Vietnamese response to the threat is probably one of the most complex, most outsiders will never understand, because it requires a deep understanding of the Chinese psychology to predict how and what they will behave in certain situations.

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## jhungary

TenLua said:


> Nevermind the fact that the chinese military has only ever used, and is only good at one tactic; the human meat shield.
> 
> I've never seen more assumptions masquerading as facts in one post.



Nobody ever replied to you for a reason. 

And yes, the People Republic of only know how to do human wave tactics. Even for their Navy and Air Force. And they are still staying in 50s, 60s and 70s Nam era mindset. 

But then wasn't this is the *BIGGEST* assumption of them all?


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Nobody ever replied to you for a reason.
> 
> And yes, the People Republic of only know how to do human wave tactics. Even for their Navy and Air Force. And they are still staying in 50s, 60s and 70s Nam era mindset.
> 
> But then wasn't this is the *BIGGEST* assumption of them all?


No the PLA fighting force today is 180 u-turn from the Mao area. More dangerous more modern weaponry more professional. They learned a biter lesson from the war against Vietnam in 1979.


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 
I wonder if your military is aware of such potential for research and development to yield such detterence.

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> I wonder if your military is aware of such potential for research and development to yield such detterence.


Yes we know, more weapons more investments more men more R&D more everything can help. However there shouldn't be an illusion as we are talking about an opponent that can field at least 10 times more men and resources in a direct encounter.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> No the PLA fighting force today is 180 u-turn from the Mao area. More dangerous more modern weaponry more professional. They learned a biter lesson from the war against Vietnam in 1979.



lol, I was being sacarastic


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## Nike

jhungary said:


> lol, It wasn't me who brought this topic up, and I am just saying what I thought about the war. The outcome of the war is hazy at best, many Military Scientist believe the result of the war is not very clean cut as it was said by most of almost everyone... Whether they had involved in the war or not.
> 
> 
> 
> If we have to look at a SCS conflict, the war would most likely decided at sea. The Airpower of Vietnam is multi-fold weaker than the Chinese (even with only South Military Command against the whole Vietnamese Air Force, on a standalone engagement, Vietnam Airforce would probably got wipe out pretty soon, as the war start and China will gain Air Superiority in the opening hours. And with Air Force gone, Vietnam Navy would be a sitting duck without Air Cover, especially so now China have 2 Aircraft Carrier. Unless Vietnam can achieve 2 things in a battle with China..
> 
> 1.) They can lure the Chinese Air Force out of the ocean and into Vietnam Airspace, which combine with SAM and other Air Defence System, there may be a chance, but that would totally depends on the Chinese.
> 
> 2.) Combine Service Warship and Air Power to make a stance, which effectively Combine the Navy and the Air Force and form an Advance Air Defence System that way.
> 
> That would mean the Air Force would have been playing a secondary role where surface ship would act as Radar Warning system, directing the Air force plane to intercept the incoming air threat, the Navy could also thin out the air threat a bit, which mean you will need Air Warfare Destroyer/Frigate, and Duel Role fighter (along the line of F-16, F-2, Su-24 or Su-34.)
> 
> Would Strongly not recommend buying any AWACS until you have enough resource to make sure they are staying alive in battle, otherwise it would have been a moot point because Land Base Radar would have already cover the range out to the sea already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why you need surface ships?
> 
> The problem for a VN/CN engagement would mean an almost total destruction with all Vietnamese Naval Asset in the region, thus all naval base will be attacked by the Chinese by both air and sea.
> 
> Problem with Submarine is that submarine cannot stay long underwater and cannot chase down modern warship (which are doing well over 30 knots) and cannot stay underwater for a long period, basically you can stay as long as the provision allowed, and then you either need to tend to them or have to port, which is hard because almost all Naval Base are within Striking range from China. Unless you can dealt with the PLAN within a month or so before your provision ran out, you are not going to do much with a full submarine force.
> 
> On the other hand, Vietnam Air Force is not a remote match for PLAAF, that mean you either need to draw them close to Vietnam soil which they can be engaged by advance ADS deployed all over Vietnam or you will have to go up and fight them air-air, which is bad.
> 
> The only way you can remotely win a war with China is to use an Air/Sea Battle Concept developed by the United States Marine Corp which detail how a small force with limited air and sea power can engage and win a A2AD war with a near peer or better enemy.
> 
> What Air/Sea Doctrine present is that a war can be fought with a connection between Air and Sea power, which you uses your air force to support your navy and uses your navy to support the Air Force. And you cannot do that with most of your ship are sub. You can't use them to support the airforce. That's why you are going to need surface ship..



the proximity of Vietnam near Chinese, in which most of Chinese heavy units and combat group is situated near the regions (aka Southern Commands) in which comprised of South Sea Fleets (the most powerful ones) and Southern theater Commands. This is, not to mention the current intelligent gathering the Chinese do in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. I am assumed there is always little chance for Vietnam Navy and Air Forces to survive the ordeal and possible onslaught of the Chinese.

The only chance for the Vietnam to inflict heavy losses on Chinese sides and prolong the war is by investing heavily in Army/Ground units. Investing in access denial weaponry like S300, Buk M and Bastion missile is a good go. And replacing the obsolote anti armor weapons system like Sagger and Spigot with the newer ones like Metis M, Kornet, Spike is actually should be priority. Vietnam should too trying to open and invest heavily in ports in Southern region besides Cam Ranh Bay (in which must be one of the most sought target after by PLA).

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> the proximity of Vietnam near Chinese, in which most of Chinese heavy units and combat group is situated near the regions (aka Southern Commands) in which comprised of South Sea Fleets (the most powerful ones) and Southern theater Commands. This is, not to mention the current intelligent gathering the Chinese do in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. I am assumed there is always little chance for Vietnam Navy and Air Forces to survive the ordeal and possible onslaught of the Chinese.
> 
> The only chance for the Vietnam to inflict heavy losses on Chinese sides and prolong the war is by investing heavily in Army/Ground units. Investing in access denial weaponry like S300, Buk M and Bastion missile is a good go. And replacing the obsolote anti armor weapons system like Sagger and Spigot with the newer ones like Metis M, Kornet, Spike is actually should be priority. Vietnam should too trying to open and invest heavily in ports in Southern region besides Cam Ranh Bay (in which must be one of the most sought target after by PLA).



Your analysis of the threat is good in general, I keep saying the same thing in particular about the surface navy, I give it zero chance of being able to do anything, like I said, they'll be busy hiding and trying to survive. Submarines are the big equalizer for Vietnam when it comes to naval assets.

The air force has a better chance and they do have a lot of anti ship missiles. It is still worth it to boost the air force because most likely, a conflict will be in the open seas and China will probably avoid attacking the mainland. Its highly unlikely that China will attempt a land attack. Of course all of that changes if China does attack the mainland in which case the fighter jets have to be dispersed and have to try to hide them which of course is not easy. As I understand, some fighter jets have already been moved to secondary airports.

So from my perspective, the emphasis should be on more subs, keep boosting the air defense network and of particular importance would be to boost the ballistic missile forces and to deploy ground to ground cruise missiles. Those 2 elements can cause heavy damage and can actually destroy the chinese islands as well as the base in Hainan island. Of course coastal anti ship batteries such as Brahmos and Bal-E are a must. Vietnam need to also improve the remote targeting capabilities, C4ISR.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol, I was being sacarastic


Yes I knew


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## Viet

*Belarus, Vietnam move towards strategic partnership*
President 27.06.2017 | 12:49
http://eng.belta.by/president/view/belarus-vietnam-move-towards-strategic-partnership-102790-2017/

*




*
_MINSK, 27 June (BelTA) – Belarus and Vietnam move towards the establishment of strategic partnership. This is envisaged in the joint statement of Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko and Vietnam President Tran Dai Quang on the all-round and advanced development of partnership between the two countries. The document was signed after the official negotiations at the Palace of Independence, BelTA has learned._


The joint statement reflects similar positions of the two sides on the international and bilateral cooperation issues. The sides reaffirmed the commitment to the consistent development and enhancement of traditionally friendly ties between Belarus and Vietnam. It is remarked that the sides have similar approaches to the key global and regional problems. They expressed readiness to maintain close cooperation in international organizations.

On the whole, the sides expressed satisfaction with the constructive nature and progressive development of the Belarusian-Vietnamese cooperation, active exchange of visits at the top and high level in recent years. All that stabilizes existing interstate ties, helps deepen them in all fields.

The sides have reaffirmed mutual interest in the intensification of the trade and economic cooperation, mentioned its huge potential taking into account the enforcement of the free trade agreement between the EEU states and Vietnam on 5 October 2016.

The parties agreed to develop and deepen cooperation in transport machine building, agriculture, petrochemistry, light industry, information and banking technologies, electronics, mining, processing of sea and farm products, other branches of the economy.

The presidents also welcomed the establishment of the joint venture MAZ Asia for the assembly of *Belarusian freight vehicles on the territory of Vietnam* and expressed readiness to create favorable conditions for its work.

It was mentioned that the implementation of cooperation projects will help localize the manufacture of Belarusian hi-tech products in Vietnam, including for the joint export of equipment to the member states of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, create new jobs and raise the qualification of Vietnamese workers.








Besides, the parties pointed out broad opportunities and a resolution to take a more active part in state programs, infrastructure, energy and other projects of Belarus and Vietnam, including the projects to build the metro system, tunnels, the National Library,* explore oil and other deposits in Vietnam*, projects in agribusiness, communications, industrial cooperation and tourism in Belarus.

In the joint statement the presidents also mentioned the *Belarusian-Vietnamese military and security cooperation*, interaction in science and technology, education, healthcare, culture, sport, and tourism. Special attention was drawn to the intensification of interregional cooperation.

The sides reaffirmed the commitment of Belarus and Vietnam to international integration. The Vietnamese side confirmed its readiness to support Belarus' resolution to advance multilateral cooperation with Southeast Asian countries. The Belarusian side, in turn, is ready to provide assistance in the development of mutually beneficial cooperation of Vietnam with the EEU and CIS countries.

The sides agreed that the visit of the Vietnamese president has made an important contribution to the strengthening of traditional friendship and is an important step towards the establishment of strategic partnership between Belarus and Vietnam.








Tran Dai Quang invited Alexander Lukashenko to visit Vietnam at any convenient time. The invitation was accepted with gratitude. Concrete terms of the visit will be harmonized.

A number of bilateral documents on the development of cooperation in various fields were signed in the presence of the two leaders. These include a protocol on introducing amendments and addenda to the protocol on the *production of motor vehicles on the territory of Vietnam* as of 23 March 2016 between the governments of Belarus and Vietnam, a memorandum of understanding on cooperation in geology, an agreement on cooperation in physical education, sport and tourism, a provision on a military and industrial cooperation commission.

The National Academy of Sciences of Belarus (NASB) and the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology have signed an agreement on scientific and technical cooperation. The NASB and the Vietnam Academy of Social Sciences have signed a memorandum of understanding in academic exchange and cooperation.

Brest Oblast and Lao Cai Province have signed an agreement on trade, economic, scientific and technical cooperation. Vitebsk Oblast and Vietnam's Haiphong have signed a memorandum of cooperation for 2017-2021.

Vietnam/Belarus 3-day Summit (June 26-28) in Minsk


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## Carlosa

*India, US call for freedom of navigation amid South China Sea disputes*

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/india-us-call-for-freedom-of-navigation-amid-south-china-sea-disputes/articleshow/59333510.cms?from=mdr

WASHINGTON: With an eye on China and the disputes in the South China Sea, Indiaand the US today called for freedom of navigation and resolving of territorial and maritime disputes peacefully in accordance with international law. 

"In the Indo-Pacific region, in order to maintain peace, stability and prosperity in the region, this is also another objective of our strategic cooperation," Prime Minister Narendra Modi told reporters at the Rose Garden of the White House after his maiden meeting with President Donald Trump. 

Later, a India-US joint statement on the meeting said as responsible stewards in the Indo-Pacific region, Trump and Modi agreed that a close partnership between the United States and India is central to peace and stability in the region. 

"Recognising the significant progress achieved in these endeavours, the leaders agreed to take further measures to strengthen their partnership," the joint statement said. 

In accordance with the tenets outlined in the UN Charter, they committed to a set of common principles for the region, according to which sovereignty and international law are respected and every country can prosper, the statement said. 

To this end, Trump and Modi reiterated the importance of respecting freedom of navigation, overflight, and commerce throughout the region, it said. 

The statement comes amid China being engaged in hotly contested territorial disputes in both the South China Sea and the East China Sea. Beijing has built up and militarised many of the islands and reefs it controls in the region. 

China claims sovereignty over all of the South China Sea. 

Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, Brunei and Taiwan have counter claims. 

Modi and Trump called upon all nations to resolve territorial and maritime disputes peacefully and in accordance with international law. 

They also called for support in bolstering regional economic connectivity through the transparent development of infrastructure and the use of responsible debt financing practices, while ensuring respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, the rule of law, and the environment. 

Modi and Trump urged other nations in the region to adhere to these principles, the statement said. 

They strongly condemned continued provocations by the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), emphasising that its destabilising pursuit of nuclear and ballistic missile programmes poses a grave threat to regional security and global peace. 

The two leaders called on North Korea to strictly abide by its international obligations and commitments. 

Modi and Trump pledged to work together to counter the DPRK's weapons of mass destruction programmes, including by holding accountable all parties that support these programmes. 

Trump thanked India for joining the US in applying new sanctions against the North Korean regime. 

"The North Korean regime is causing tremendous problems, and is something that has to be dealt with, and probably dealt with rapidly," he said. 

"Working together, I truly believe our two countries can set an example for many other nations, make great strides in defeating common threats, and make great progress in unleashing amazing prosperity and growth," Trump said.

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## Aqsuperman

While the air force and the navy got their priority in equipment and technology, the army got pretty much the leftover of the budget. Yet among the army arsenals that got more than several decades of usage behind them, one weapon remain unique, the Scud (R-17). This make the VPA one of two countries in the SEA region that got ballistic missiles. Operate the D variant, upgraded by North Korea and well maintained, this provides the VPA with a useful tactical weapon on the field . 
















A clip about the training and maintenance of the Scud

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Your analysis of the threat is good in general, I keep saying the same thing in particular about the surface navy, I give it zero chance of being able to do anything, like I said, they'll be busy hiding and trying to survive. Submarines are the big equalizer for Vietnam when it comes to naval assets.
> 
> The air force has a better chance and they do have a lot of anti ship missiles. It is still worth it to boost the air force because most likely, a conflict will be in the open seas and China will probably avoid attacking the mainland. Its highly unlikely that China will attempt a land attack. Of course all of that changes if China does attack the mainland in which case the fighter jets have to be dispersed and have to try to hide them which of course is not easy. As I understand, some fighter jets have already been moved to secondary airports.
> 
> So from my perspective, the emphasis should be on more subs, keep boosting the air defense network and of particular importance would be to boost the ballistic missile forces and to deploy ground to ground cruise missiles. Those 2 elements can cause heavy damage and can actually destroy the chinese islands as well as the base in Hainan island. Of course coastal anti ship batteries such as Brahmos and Bal-E are a must. Vietnam need to also improve the remote targeting capabilities, C4ISR.


Sounds good but the imbalance of power is too great. We should increase the stakes by developing an emergency plan in joining the NATO. Like in the past joining the alliance with USSR and Wasaw Pact when the threat was imminent. I understand we don't want to pose military threat to our neighbors, but the feeling should be mutual, our neighbors should not pose military threat to our security.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Sounds good but the imbalance of power is too great. We should increase the stakes by developing an emergency plan in joining the NATO. Like in the past joining the alliance with USSR and Wasaw Pact when the threat was imminent. I understand we don't want to pose military threat to our neighbors, but the feeling should be mutual, our neighbors should not pose military threat to our security.



Joining an alliance is a 2 way street, they also would need to want to make an alliance with Vietnam, something similar to what PH has with USA, but do they really want to go that far? Does Vietnam want to go that far? Because once VN makes an alliance with USA, that's also the moment that China would see Vietnam as an enemy.

The truth is, Vietnam is the only one in the region with the guts to oppose China and it can certainly do a lot more than PH and it can also offer a lot to an ally, like Cam Ranh base, etc, something that USA can actually use and it probably wants it really bad, but is USA willing to go the extra mile and put itself on the line to cooperate militarily with Vietnam and fight if necessary? I'm not sure about that. And can Vietnam really depend and trust such an ally? I'm not sure about that.

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## jhungary

madokafc said:


> the proximity of Vietnam near Chinese, in which most of Chinese heavy units and combat group is situated near the regions (aka Southern Commands) in which comprised of South Sea Fleets (the most powerful ones) and Southern theater Commands. This is, not to mention the current intelligent gathering the Chinese do in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. I am assumed there is always little chance for Vietnam Navy and Air Forces to survive the ordeal and possible onslaught of the Chinese.
> 
> The only chance for the Vietnam to inflict heavy losses on Chinese sides and prolong the war is by investing heavily in Army/Ground units. Investing in access denial weaponry like S300, Buk M and Bastion missile is a good go. And replacing the obsolote anti armor weapons system like Sagger and Spigot with the newer ones like Metis M, Kornet, Spike is actually should be priority. Vietnam should too trying to open and invest heavily in ports in Southern region besides Cam Ranh Bay (in which must be one of the most sought target after by PLA).



It's a good plan, but there is one flaw in your scenario. You need to lure the Chinese into Vietnam mainland in order to enjoy the benefit of combine ADS. And if Chinese are any sort of a clever bunch, they won't actually fight close to Vietnamese soil unless they wanted to do a ground invasion.

The problem with your plan is to set up Above ground defence to try and deter a war in SCS, a war in SCS, however, would most likely does not include a war from mainland, and the closest of those island is 400 miles away from Vietnamese mainland, the ground based defence does not really matter in this point. 

The problem is that, these island were quite small, meaning the unit deployable in spratly islands is also small in number, you cannot depend on a few island airfield here and there with surrounding defence to try and fend off Chinese combine naval and air force power. You will need mobile platform at sea to defend these island from invasion. Otherwise it would have been a moot point if you allow Chinese to gain local naval and air superiority.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> While the air force and the navy got their priority in equipment and technology, the army got pretty much the leftover of the budget. Yet among the army arsenals that got more than several decades of usage behind them, one weapon remain unique, the Scud (R-17). This make the VPA one of two countries in the SEA region that got ballistic missiles. Operate the D variant, upgraded by North Korea and well maintained, this provides the VPA with a useful tactical weapon on the field .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A clip about the training and maintenance of the Scud



Absolutely, I always see the ballistic force as an ace in the pocket with an strong deterrence value. I know there are a lot of developments regarding ballistic missiles, but mostly all covered by secrecy. I know Vietnam already developed solid fuel for ballistic missiles and that implies development of solid fuel based missiles which the obvious advantages to the traditional Scuds which are liquid fuel based. North Korea certainly has plenty of R & D that they can always sell for some cash, so I'm sure Vietnam has taken advantage of that.


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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> Your analysis of the threat is good in general, I keep saying the same thing in particular about the surface navy, I give it zero chance of being able to do anything, like I said, they'll be busy hiding and trying to survive. Submarines are the big equalizer for Vietnam when it comes to naval assets.
> 
> The air force has a better chance and they do have a lot of anti ship missiles. It is still worth it to boost the air force because most likely, a conflict will be in the open seas and China will probably avoid attacking the mainland. Its highly unlikely that China will attempt a land attack. Of course all of that changes if China does attack the mainland in which case the fighter jets have to be dispersed and have to try to hide them which of course is not easy. As I understand, some fighter jets have already been moved to secondary airports.
> 
> So from my perspective, the emphasis should be on more subs, keep boosting the air defense network and of particular importance would be to boost the ballistic missile forces and to deploy ground to ground cruise missiles. Those 2 elements can cause heavy damage and can actually destroy the chinese islands as well as the base in Hainan island. Of course coastal anti ship batteries such as Brahmos and Bal-E are a must. Vietnam need to also improve the remote targeting capabilities, C4ISR.



Sub does well only in open seas, and it would require constant support from ground base (either you need to dock and replenish frequently or you need to send Submarine Tender)

sending sub by casting a net like what Germany do during WW2 is ill advised in South China Seas, especially when you are very close to Chinese own naval base. Also, there are limited dock resource for Vietnam, a single usage Submarine taking up dock space is not very forthcoming, because it will jam up your dock schedule and they cannot do much but spend most of their time chasing Chinese ship, close to their base.

For the Air Force, tradition assumption is that China enjoy 3 : 1 advantage, if you also put in quality in the formula, the advantage would most likely over 5 or even 6 : 1 advantage. You will need some surface ship and take some heat and go after Chinese plane. Another thing is Vietnam Air Force lacking in AWACS, which mean once they are out of Ground Base Radar range, they are effectively blinded, unless they can get AWACS data from US or India, you will need sea base radar, or increase your air force strength so you can chop up part of it to protect and run AWACS with the Air Force, which is the reason why submarine is not suitable for these type of warfare.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> It's a good plan, but there is one flaw in your scenario. You need to lure the Chinese into Vietnam mainland in order to enjoy the benefit of combine ADS. And if Chinese are any sort of a clever bunch, they won't actually fight close to Vietnamese soil unless they wanted to do a ground invasion.
> 
> The problem with your plan is to set up Above ground defence to try and deter a war in SCS, a war in SCS, however, would most likely does not include a war from mainland, and the closest of those island is 400 miles away from Vietnamese mainland, the ground based defence does not really matter in this point.
> 
> The problem is that, these island were quite small, meaning the unit deployable in spratly islands is also small in number, you cannot depend on a few island airfield here and there with surrounding defence to try and fend off Chinese combine naval and air force power. You will need mobile platform at sea to defend these island from invasion. Otherwise it would have been a moot point if you allow Chinese to gain local naval and air superiority.



From my perspective, the Vietnamese occupied islands are absolutely indefensible and I know the Vietnamese military feels the same way (but they will not say it). All Vietnam can do if the islands are taken is to retaliate with missile strikes against the chinese islands and Hainan and maybe make the south china sea into a war zone which would have serious consequences for shipping like increasing insurance rates, etc.



jhungary said:


> Sub does well only in open seas, and it would require constant support from ground base (either you need to dock and replenish frequently or you need to send Submarine Tender)
> 
> sending sub by casting a net like what Germany do during WW2 is ill advised in South China Seas, especially when you are very close to Chinese own naval base. Also, there are limited dock resource for Vietnam, a single usage Submarine taking up dock space is not very forthcoming, because it will jam up your dock schedule and they cannot do much but spend most of their time chasing Chinese ship, close to their base.
> 
> For the Air Force, tradition assumption is that China enjoy 3 : 1 advantage, if you also put in quality in the formula, the advantage would most likely over 5 or even 6 : 1 advantage. You will need some surface ship and take some heat and go after Chinese plane. Another thing is Vietnam Air Force lacking in AWACS, which mean once they are out of Ground Base Radar range, they are effectively blinded, unless they can get AWACS data from US or India, you will need sea base radar, or increase your air force strength so you can chop up part of it to protect and run AWACS with the Air Force, which is the reason why submarine is not suitable for these type of warfare.



Surface ships? Please tell me how they can survive. All the Vietnamese ships have a really insignificant air defense, they can't handle a real missile attack which would not be just 1 or 2 missiles; they only have point defense weapons. And how are they going to defend themselves from subs? Only the 2 upcoming Gepard frigates have a decent ASW package. The Vietnamese navy as it is now can't confront the Chinese navy, can't do anything about the fact that China would immediately have air superiority in the South China Sea. I just don't see the surface ships playing any role at all.


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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> From my perspective, the Vietnamese occupied islands are absolutely indefensible and I know the Vietnamese military feels the same way (but they will not say it). All Vietnam can do if the islands are taken is to retaliate with missile strikes against the chine islands and Hainan and maybe make the south china sea into a war zone which would have serious consequences for shipping like increasing insurance rates, etc.



Island defence is very hard, because Island have a limited area for you to deploy your unit.

According to the tradition calculation, an invasion force will need 3 times the size of the defending force (3 :1) if the attacking force enjoy local air and sea superiority, and if either one is lacking, the sizes require would bump up to 5 : 1, and if both is lacking, depends on the quality of the troop, range from 7 : 1 to 10 : 1

Island warfare depends on two parameter. How good is your navy, as I said before, Navy increase your strategic depth. A better navy means you pushes your defensive line further, the invader will get hit sooner, and thus require more resource. Another factor depends on your logistic. How much you can support a defending force, especially the ammunition and troops rotation.

In Vietnam Case. yes, if a war break out between China and Vietnam, the island defence would be untenable, there are two way Vietnam can fight, either wage a insurgency in these island. or do what the Brits do and launch and amphibious assault to retake the island, meanwhile having the defence force in the island to fight a delay action.

What you suggested will not dent the Chinese much, Hainan is not one of the "riches" province China have, and Chinese shipping do not need to go down to SCS, or they would be able to move against your missile. You will need to play aggressively if you want to hurt China in a war and make them stop the aggression. On the other hand, there are several reference point from the past that saw strategic bombing don't actually work. So, I don't really think bombing Hainan or Southern China with missile or Aircraft would have done much, because in term of missile, Chinese have longer range ballistic missile, and a missile or bombing war between China and Vietnam, I can see China will win easily with their sheer number...



Carlosa said:


> Surface ships? Please tell me how they can survive. All the Vietnamese ships have a really insignificant air defense, they can't handle a real missile attack which would not be just 1 or 2 missiles; they only have point defense weapons. And how are they going to defend themselves from subs? Only the 2 upcoming Gepard frigates have a decent ASW package. The Vietnamese navy as it is now can't confront the Chinese navy, can't do anything about the fact that China would immediately have air superiority in the South China Sea. I just don't see the surface ships playing any role at all.



Air Sea Battle concept is what Vietnam should go after, it combine the strength of the Air Force and Navy so as to act as a force multiplier to form a powerful combine defence on Vietnam Coast against Chinese Naval and Air Threat.

The concept is this. Vietnam can use its Air Power to cover the area where your ship is going to operate. Your will need to break up your ship in groups. And uses each ship with their radar to detect or scan a designated area. And using the air asset to prioritise the threat and engage the unit as they stand, while enjoying air cover from naval surface combatant. 

The air sea battle is much like what the Egyptian did to Israeli during Yom Kippur war, but instead of ground base AA defence, you are using sea base AA defence. The result is that Egyptian does putting up SAM Umbrella over where their air force is, using ground base radar to guide the fighting to intercept Israeli fighter or engage the Israeli Tank, while the Air asset would cover the land base operation so the SAM site will not be overrun by Israeli tank. They almost succeed if not because of Syrian Failure to take the advantage over in Golan Height.

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## Carlosa

jhungary said:


> What you suggested will not dent the Chinese much, Hainan is not one of the "riches" province China have, and Chinese shipping do not need to go down to SCS, or they would be able to move against your missile.



Oh no, Hainan is super important, not because of the economy but because of the submarine base which is the base for the strategic nuclear sub force.



jhungary said:


> Air Sea Battle concept is what Vietnam should go after, it combine the strength of the Air Force and Navy so as to act as a force multiplier to form a powerful combine defence on Vietnam Coast against Chinese Naval and Air Threat.



The air sea battle requires a different naval capability than what Vietnam has. The Vietnamese air defense network and the air force can protect the mainland up to a degree, but once you are talking about the sea, that's another story. That concept had more validity in the past, but now that there are 3 air bases in the Chinese islands in the Spratlys with hangars for 72 fighter jets which is already more than the whole Vietnamese air force plus one carrier and more on the way plus the fact that there are many fighter jets from Hainan and the mainland that can reach the islands (with air refueling if needed), the picture doesn't look good.

There are too many chinese subs also. The air cover that Vietnam can provide as well as the cover from the air defense network cannot really extend to the seas other than the air defense network cover against high altitude targets because of systems like S-300 and Buk M-2, that's all. They can't protect the ships from missile attack. You need to have systems in place for that that are on site and Vietnam does not have that capability. The coastal batteries can provide anti ship cover up to a limited distance, but there is nothing that can protect the ships from sea skimming missiles and that's my whole point. Naval bases are protected, but once the ships leave the base, the story changes. Air defense systems on land can only detect a low flying cruise missile up to a distance of up to 30km, that's it. Once the ships are out into the sea, there is no cover.

China has the capability to detect and track all the movements of Vietnamese surface ships, that's quite clear to me. Once the ships are detected, they can be targeted, not only by air and naval assets that are in the local area, but also by stand off assets are are totally outside the reach from the land base defensive network. Chinese bombers with stand off cruise missiles can target from a long distance any ship that leaves the Vietnamese mainland. Subs, and there are plenty of them, would also target those ships so how can those ships survive? How is the air sea battle concept going to help those ships if there is no assets on land that can help those ships? The land assets and air force can't do anything about the enemy subs and can't do anything about stoping incoming missiles that have targeted those ships.

The land assets and air force can deter chinese ships / aircraft from coming too close to the mainland, but they can't provide anti missile defense to help Vietnamese ships in the open seas.

@gambit care to give your opinion?



jhungary said:


> the island defence would be untenable, there are two way Vietnam can fight, either *wage a insurgency in these island*. or do what the Brits do and launch and *amphibious assault to retake the island*, meanwhile having the defence force in the island to fight a delay action..



The islands are way, way too small. No chance of insurgency action, once the island is taken, that's it.

Absolutely no chance of an amphibious attack to retake the islands when China has full air and naval superiority in the area. Any amphibious force that leaves the mainland gets eliminated right away, they don't have the means to protect themselves.

The concepts that you propose can only have validity if Vietnam were to have a far stronger navy that what it has today; right now or in the near future, I don't see any chance for that.

Vietnam should continue to work to increase their capabilities for area denial / anti access and deterrence to defend the mainland and to retaliate in case the islands get taken, but the islands are indefensible, period.


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## TenLua

jhungary said:


> Nobody ever replied to you for a reason.
> 
> And yes, the People Republic of only know how to do human wave tactics. Even for their Navy and Air Force. And they are still staying in 50s, 60s and 70s Nam era mindset.
> 
> But then wasn't this is the *BIGGEST* assumption of them all?



More baseless assumptions. Everyone reply to me with tears streaming down their face. Nom nom nom.

Fact: WW2, chinese tactic; human meat grinder. Naval combat ship? 0 combat aircraft? Maybe a couple 

Fact 2: korean war, chinese tactic; human meat grinder. Naval combat ship? Aircraft? 0

Fact 3. 1979 border skirmish. Chinese tactic; human meat grinder. Naval combat ship? 0. Aircraft? 0. Too scared the the Vietnamese air force will completely decimate anything that leaves the ground.

Aggregate experience in naval and air combat? 0. Zilch. Nada. Nil. Nothing. Fact.

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## Viet

Ok there are more things happening.

From all agreements reached during Vietnam/Belarus summit, this news is nice: the two countries joint verhicle assembly plant will become operational by year end. One of the products should be Maz trucks. Let see what kinds of trucks come out from assembly plant. Including military trucks?

http://m.eng.belta.by/president/vie...5bn-in-trade-over-next-1-2-years-102794-2017/











What does Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull want? He sends a Special Envoy, Frances Adamson, with a letter to Vietnamese government. Content unknown.







Parliament speaker Nguyễn Thị Kim Ngân greets her Cuban counterpart Esteban Lazo Hernandez. Vietnam is poor but always generous especially towards socialist brother from the Cold War area by donating thousands of tons rice to Cuba that faces food shortages. Vietnam even promises to provide rice to Cuba on long term basis. Hopefully the Cubans can pay, we aren't rich.

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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

Ask Cubans for bullets and their domestic sniper and anti materiel rifles, design documents for those.

They also do a decent job of mounting big artilerly guns on trucks.

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## jhungary

Carlosa said:


> Oh no, Hainan is super important, not because of the economy but because of the submarine base which is the base for the strategic nuclear sub force.



Well, actually Hainan is not really that strategically important.

There are two things to consider, 1 is the effectiveness of missile against hard defence. Missile can, well, missed, intercepted, failure to detonate. And even if the one that gone thru, missile, being a point to point weapon, your damage done to hardened structure is very limited.

Also put into consideration where the Chinese would most likely forward deploy their submarine, which mean they can be used and support by other bases that out of Vietnamese missile range, either by going there directly or by submarine tender.

The effect of an attack on Hainan would not do much damage to the Naval Power of the Chinese Southern Command. yes, it will interrupted the base of operation by some degree, but not as much as you hope for (like permanently disable the base, or destroyer majority of their ship while they are still docked.



> The air sea battle requires a different naval capability than what Vietnam has. The Vietnamese air defense network and the air force can protect the mainland up to a degree, but once you are talking about the sea, that's another story. That concept had more validity in the past, but now that there are 3 air bases in the Chinese islands in the Spratlys with hangars for 72 fighter jets which is already more than the whole Vietnamese air force plus one carrier and more on the way plus the fact that there are many fighter jets from Hainan and the mainland that can reach the islands (with air refueling if needed), the picture doesn't look good.
> 
> There are too many chinese subs also. The air cover that Vietnam can provide as well as the cover from the air defense network cannot really extend to the seas other than the air defense network cover against high altitude targets because of systems like S-300 and Buk M-2, that's all. They can't protect the ships from missile attack. You need to have systems in place for that that are on site and Vietnam does not have that capability. The coastal batteries can provide anti ship cover up to a limited distance, but there is nothing that can protect the ships from sea skimming missiles and that's my whole point. Naval bases are protected, but once the ships leave the base, the story changes. Air defense systems on land can only detect a low flying cruise missile up to a distance of up to 30km, that's it. Once the ships are out into the sea, there is no cover.
> 
> China has the capability to detect and track all the movements of Vietnamese surface ships, that's quite clear to me. Once the ships are detected, they can be targeted, not only by air and naval assets that are in the local area, but also by stand off assets are are totally outside the reach from the land base defensive network. Chinese bombers with stand off cruise missiles can target from a long distance any ship that leaves the Vietnamese mainland. Subs, and there are plenty of them, would also target those ships so how can those ships survive? How is the air sea battle concept going to help those ships if there is no assets on land that can help those ships? The land assets and air force can't do anything about the enemy subs and can't do anything about stoping incoming missiles that have targeted those ships.
> 
> The land assets and air force can deter chinese ships / aircraft from coming too close to the mainland, but they can't provide anti missile defense to help Vietnamese ships in the open seas.
> 
> @gambit care to give your opinion?



That is the reason why I think Vietnam will need to rethink their surface warship force.

You need to understand the problem with Vietnam Armed Force and Chinese Armed Force is that Chinese can easily outnumber and outclass probably along all line of Vietnamese Platform, which mean a one on one fight, I mean your fighter against Chinese Fighter, your ships against Chinese ships, you will lose because of the sheer numerical difference. 

The only way for you to come up with a fight is to work out a combine warfare and defence only in strategic point, you don't need to hold the island when the war break out, but you can anchor the attack around the island, and using a combine force of Air and Naval Power, you can wage war at least in a localized fashion, like a sea base guerrilla warfare. And hopefully you can negate the Chinese advantage by achieve local superiority or local par engagement. And you can defeat the Chinese in detail before the Chinese can bring in Reinforcement on you.

On the other hand, if you uses submarine and cast a net over the whole SCS and try to hit some ship out of pot luck, first of all, you will need a lot, by a lot I mean A LOT of submarine, basically into 3 digits number to be able to cover the whole SCS and all the entry point. Secondly, Submarine cannot used to chase surface warship, not in an inland sea when there are shelfing on the seabed, and they are totally depends on submarine tender to support their forward deployment, which would be easy to track if the Chinese has gain Air Superiority

It's hard to tell you in a few word so....let's just say we agree to disagree on this topic. 



> The islands are way, way too small. No chance of insurgency action, once the island is taken, that's it.
> 
> Absolutely no chance of an amphibious attack to retake the islands when China has full air and naval superiority in the area. Any amphibious force that leaves the mainland gets eliminated right away, they don't have the means to protect themselves.
> 
> The concepts that you propose can only have validity if Vietnam were to have a far stronger navy that what it has today; right now or in the near future, I don't see any chance for that.
> 
> Vietnam should continue to work to increase their capabilities for area denial / anti access and deterrence to defend the mainland and to retaliate in case the islands get taken, but the islands are indefensible, period.



You can still wage insurgency and delay the occupation regardless how small the island is. During the Falkland war, the 100 men insurgent force left behind to disrupt the Argentina organisation in the island, the force was lead by 2 Royal Marine that was not captured during the initial phase of the invasion. And was credited as the main effort as to why the Brits can retake the island that easily (UK projection before the war would see casualty in thousands) by the factor of 10 to just 240 something KIA and 700 something wounded.

A2/AD is needed for Vietnam by IMO cannot depends upon, when you are in a smaller force and you are up against a bigger force, Julius Caesar say it best, you have to take the initiative, keep the enemy running your round. That's how he defeated Pompey, Vercingetorix and the likes.

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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> More baseless assumptions. Everyone reply to me with tears streaming down their face. Nom nom nom.
> 
> Fact: WW2, chinese tactic; human meat grinder. Naval combat ship? 0 combat aircraft? Maybe a couple
> 
> Fact 2: korean war, chinese tactic; human meat grinder. Naval combat ship? Aircraft? 0
> 
> Fact 3. 1979 border skirmish. Chinese tactic; human meat grinder. Naval combat ship? 0. Aircraft? 0. Too scared the the Vietnamese air force will completely decimate anything that leaves the ground.
> 
> Aggregate experience in naval and air combat? 0. Zilch. Nada. Nil. Nothing. Fact.


in 1979, VN didnt even use regular forces. VN border guards and women militia were far enough to kick 'mighty ' PLA back :


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## dy1022

Viva_Viet said:


> in 1979, VN didnt even use regular forces. VN border guards and women militia were far enough to kick 'mighty ' PLA back :







Yeah, VN force so strong, so powerful. CN force can only do WW2 human meat grinder tactic.

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## xiao qi

Vietnam’s military engineers assessed for peacekeeping readiness
_A UN delegation on June 27 had a working session with the Engineering High Command and watched the performance of a combat engineering team at Brigade 249 to assess their readiness for UN peacekeeping activities. _


_



_

_Military engineers are clearing a bomb_



The delegation’s visit aims to examine training, professional capacity and operational standard of Vietnam in terms of military medicine and engineering – the prerequisites for Vietnam to be lifted to Level 2 of the UN Peacekeeping Capability Readiness System.

The team performed tasks in clearing mines and bombs and building high-storey houses, roads, bridges and garrisons. 

The UN delegation appreciated the professional competence and experience of Vietnam’s combat engineering force in both military and civil activities, especially in humanitarian UXO clearance, which they said suit the increasing demands of UN peacekeeping missions.

At the same time, Lieutenant colonel Shahab Udin, head of the delegation, said the force needs to improve equipment and officers’ foreign language proficiency among officers, adding that officers and soldiers should gain thorough understanding of standard operating procedures for UN peacekeeping engineers. 

Commanders of the peacekeeping combat engineering team affirmed strong determination to send military engineers to join UN peacekeeping operations on schedule. 

Meanwhile, the Engineering High Command pledged to take measures to overcome shortcomings and limitations as soon as possible.

They also suggested the UN advise Vietnam on the set of equipment for combat engineers and the UN standard procedure.

The peacekeeping combat engineering team of Vietnam has 268 members, who are undergoing training in their specialized work and foreign language.

*Vietnam affirms political determination to join UN peacekeeping mission*



*



*




Deputy Defence Minister, Sen. Lieut. Gen Nguyen Chi Vinh affirmed Vietnam’s political determination to join the United Nations (UN) Peacekeeping Mission at a reception in Hanoi on June 27 for a delegation from the UN Assessment and Advisory Visit (AAV). 

The delegation was led by Bianca Selway, representative from the UN Department for Peacekeeping Operations. 

The reception was also attended by UK representative in charge of the UN peacekeeping mission Samantha Hope and UK defence attaché in Vietnam David Houghtonm, who sought to increase coordination among Vietnam, the UN and the UK in transferring the operation of the UK’s second-level field hospital in the South Sudan city of Bentiu, part of the UN Peacekeeping Mission in South Sudan, to Vietnam. 

Vinh, who is also head of the Defence Ministry’s Steering Committee on Vietnam’s participation in the UN Peacekeeping operations, thanked the UN for sending officials to Vietnam to make preliminary evaluation of its training, professional capacity and operating standards in military medicine and engineering. 

Informing the outcomes of the working session with the Vietnam Peacekeeping Centre and the trip to observing the field demonstration by Vietnam’s military medical and engineering forces on June 26-27, Selway said the AAV delegation commits all possible support to Vietnam to improve its professional and language ability, and working experience in multi-national environment such as the UN Peacekeeping Mission. 

Following the visit, the delegation will submit a detailed report to the UN Department for Peacekeeping Operations to prepare for the upgrade of Vietnam’s status to the second level in the UN Peacekeeping Capability Readiness System and help Vietnam arrange a field trip to Bentiu city and the UN Peacekeeping Mission in South Sudan, which is also part of a Vietnam-UN agenda towards negotiating a Memorandum of Understanding on deploying forces to the UN. 

The host asked the delegation to give an objective appraisal of Vietnam’s peacekeeping capacity and offer all possible support to Vietnam to improve the capacity of its military medical and engineering forces to join the UN peacekeeping mission.
http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/go...eers-assessed-for-peacekeeping-readiness.html

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## TenLua

dy1022 said:


> Yeah, VN force so strong, so powerful. CN force can only do WW2 human meat grinder tactic.



I must admit, those are some sexy toys.


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## TaiShang

TenLua said:


> I must admit, those are some sexy toys.



Together, stronger, bro. 

Let's kick the US out of our region and install peace.

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## Viva_Viet

TaiShang said:


> Together, stronger, bro.
> 
> Let's kick the US out of our region and install peace.


Forgot that its CN who begged for US daddy back in order to stop VN expansion to the whole Sub Mekong region in 1979 ??


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## TaiShang

Viva_Viet said:


> Forgot that its CN who begged for US daddy back in order to stop VN expansion to the whole Sub Mekong region in 1979 ??



History is a subjective science, oftentimes, so, better not to be trapped by it. 

Past cannot be restructured. But, future can be carefully structured. Now we all have greater optimism and confidence in our capabilities as a region. 

Better concentrate on the ongoing history. The history being and to be made.

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## Viva_Viet

TaiShang said:


> History is a subjective science, oftentimes, so, better not to be trapped by it.
> 
> Past cannot be restructured. But, future can be carefully structured. Now we all have greater optimism and confidence in our capabilities as a region.
> 
> Better concentrate on the ongoing history. The history being and to be made.


Yeah, we also feel that wt support from Russia-India-US-JP now, we can unify sub-Mekong region in the near future.

Laos and Mr.Hunsen just show their loyalty to VN after we sent your general Fan Changlong back and cancel the meeting. So, in the future, all sub Mekong nations will show their support to VN if VN-CN conflict happen again


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## dy1022

Viva_Viet said:


> Yeah, we also feel that wt support from Russia-India-US-JP now, we can unify sub-Mekong region in the near future.
> 
> Laos and Mr.Hunsen just show their loyalty to VN after we sent your general Fan Changlong back and cancel the meeting. So, in the future, all sub Mekong nations will show their support to VN if VN-CN conflict happen again


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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> Together, stronger, bro.
> 
> Let's kick the US out of our region and install peace.


No way bro, the more guests come to the party, the more better the party. I am thinking we should invite your blood brothers Cambodia, Pakistan and Venezuela too.


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## Viet

According to Russia shipyard Vympel, Vietnam will construct 4 more Molynia warships armed by supersonic yakhont antiship missiles, instead of previously weaker version Uran cruise missiles.































a Su27 fighter aircraft taking of for a live fire drill











AA gunner on a submarine hunter

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## Viet

Sending best wishes from Germany to the country of rising sun. Japanese investment to Vietnam this year has surpassed the one of kimchi folks. In total nearly $20 billion in FDI in the first half of 2017, plus 55 percent. Should the trend continue, we will see $40 billion this year. A new record.






http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-06/27/c_136397983.htm

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## Viet

I don't know how many US carriers are now deployed to East Asia. Probably 4. two US carrier strike groups, led by USS Ronald Reagan and the USS George Washington, are cruising the South China Sea up and down, coming as close as the coast of Indonesia. Seems Vietnam effort to drag America into the mess pays off.










More wonderful pictures for our Chinese friends

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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet

Vietnam is producing Kh-35 or Kh-35U?


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## Suika

Viet said:


> I don't know how many US carriers are now deployed to East Asia. Probably 4. two US carrier strike groups, led by USS Ronald Reagan and the USS George Washington, are cruising the South China Sea up and down, coming as close as the coast of Indonesia. Seems Vietnam effort to drag America into the mess pays off.



It's interesting to see that USS George Washington came into the southern part of the South China Sea, I didn't expect that. 

About the whereabouts of some of the other carriers, USS Ronald Reagan is forward deployed at Yokosuka, Japan so it never leaves the western Pacific until another carrier comes to relieve it at Yokosuka. The other two of the estimated 4 would probably have to be USS Carl Vinson and USS Nimitz. USS Carl Vinson finished its 5-6 month long tour-duty in the western Pacific about a week ago. It was very busy going down into the South China Sea and going back up to the waters around the Korean Peninsula, conducting many joint-training with both Japan and ROK along the way. But it is now returning to the US and is now in the eastern Pacific. USS Nimitz recently departed from the US coast and entered the western Pacific recently. So USS George Washington, USS Ronald Reagan, and USS Nimitz makes 3. But one of these carriers (USS Ronald Reagan would be my guess) should be heading to the Indian Ocean for the coming Malabar 2017 trilateral exercise between the US, India, and Japan (JS Izumo) next month. So during that exercise, my guess would be 1 or 2 carriers in the western Pacific.

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## Carlosa

*Is a New China-Vietnam Maritime Crisis Brewing in the South China Sea?*
What are the implications of China’s abrupt cancellation of military border activities with Vietnam?





By Carl Thayer
June 29, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/06/is-a...ritime-crisis-brewing-in-the-south-china-sea/

This year’s long-scheduled Vietnam-China 4th Border Defense Friendly Exchange was unexpectedly canceled, reportedly due to Chinese displeasure at Vietnam’s resumption of oil exploration activities in the South China Sea. Neither side officially has confirmed this development. This article reviews public and private information made available to _The Diplomat_.

On June 12, China announced that Senior Lieutenant General Fan Changlong, vice chairman of the Central Military Commission, had left Beijing to visit Spain, Finland, and Vietnam. Chinese media reported that Fan “will also attend the 4th high-level border meeting between the Chinese and Vietnamese militaries” during his visit to Hanoi.

Fan was accompanied by a high-powered delegation that included Shao Yuanming, deputy chief of staff of the Central Military Commission’s Joint Staff Department; Liu Zhenli, chief of staff of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA); Liu Yi, deputy commander of the PLA Navy; Song Kun, deputy political commissar of the PLA Air Force; and Yuan Yubai, commander of the PLA Southern Command.

Vietnam’s _People’s Army Newspaper_ reported that Fan would make “a friendship official visit” from June 18-19. On June 13, Major General Nguyen Dai Hoi, deputy head of the Foreign Affairs Department of Vietnam’s Ministry of National Defense, announced that the fourth Vietnam-China border defense friendship exchange program would be held in the northern border province of Lai Chau and China’s Yunnan province from June 20-22 and that Fan would “co-chair the exchange program with General Ngo Xuan Lich,” Vietnam’s Minister of National Defense.

A discrepancy soon emerged between the public record and private reports by Hanoi-based observers concerning Fan’s visit. The public record indicates that defense relations were going well and on June 18 an agreement was reached between Lich and Fan on personnel training between their respective central military commissions under the Joint Vision Statement on Defense Cooperation to 2025, which was issued in January 2017.

Initial media reports from Hanoi and Beijing reflected discussions held on June 18 between Fan and Lich, Party Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong, President Tran Dai Quang and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc. Media commentary published by both sides was upbeat and positive. For example, _Xinhua_ quoted Trong as observing “Vietnam and China are friendly socialist neighbors, and relations between the two countries and two parties have maintained good momentum with deepening cooperation and exchanges in various fields.”

According to _Xinhua,_ Quang said “closer friendly cooperation between the two militaries will help deepen the mutual trust between the two countries and two parties, and facilitate their fruitful collaboration.”

Vietnam News Agency reported the two sides “agreed upon the contents and measures of cooperation in the time ahead.” Vietnam’s _People’s Army Newspaper_, wrote that Lich considered Fan’s visit “an important political event and a new development step in cooperative relations between the people and armies of the two nations.”

_Nhan Dan_, the organ of the Vietnam Communist Party, reported that Lich said Fan’s “ongoing visit is vivid evidence of close relations between the two parties, states and armies.” The paper noted that Lich and Fan “will co-chair activities within the fourth Vietnam-China border defense friendship exchange program” from June 20-22.

_Xinhua_ quoted Lich as observing, “ties between the two militaries have made substantial progress in recent years, with sound cooperation in border defense, peacekeeping, and search and rescue.” According to _Xinhua,_ Fan responded, “Thanks to the promotion of the leaders of both countries, the China-Vietnam relations are developing with good momentum and their cooperation has yielded results in various fields.”

Fan even suggested that China align its One Belt, One Road Initiative “with Vietnam’s Two Corridors and One Economic Circle plan, and push forward pragmatic cooperation in all fields for mutual development.”

Both Vietnamese and Chinese media reported that the South China Sea issue was raised in discussions between Fan and Vietnam’s leaders. _Xinhua_ quoted Phuc as stating, “Vietnam is ready to make joint efforts with China to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea and reach agreement on a code of conduct in the South China Sea through consultations at an early date.”

_Xinhua_ quoted Fan’s view that “the South China Sea islands have been China’s territory since ancient times… [and] that the current situation in the South China Sea has been stabilized and is turning positive…” Fan also called on “both sides to abide by the important consensus reached by the leaders of the two countries and the two parties. The two sides should enhance their strategic communications and properly manage and control their differences so as to maintain their overall relations as well as the peace and stability of the South China Sea.”

_Nhan Dan,_ in its report of the Lich-Fan meeting, noted that “both host and guest agreed not to allow sea-related issues to affect the two countries relations.”

It soon became clear, however, that differences emerged over Vietnam’s renewed oil drilling in the South China Sea and these differences led to the cancellation of the planned border defense exchange activities.

It is unclear whether Fan spoke in general terms about Vietnam’s oil and gas exploration in disputed waters or specifically mentioned particular exploration blocks by name.

One Vietnamese source reported in a private email that Fan “raised the question to Vietnamese leaders, including PM [Nguyen Xuan Phuc], and asked Vietnam to stop drilling oil in block 136/03.” Block 136/03 is located in the Vanguard Bank. Other analysts reported that Fan mentioned block 118, also known as the Blue Whale, where Exxon Mobile is currently operating off Vietnam’s central coast.

Vietnamese sources say the unidentified leader to whom Fan spoke responded by strongly defending Vietnam’s sovereignty. It was this verbal exchange that reportedly led Fan to withdraw China’s participation in the 4th Border Defense Friendly Exchange and to return to China abruptly.

It is unclear whether General Fan left Hanoi immediately on the night of June 18 or on the morning of next day. The 2017 border exchange was scheduled to commence on June 20.

It should be noted that a year ago the arbitral tribunal that heard the case against China brought by the Philippines ruled that China’s nine-dash line claim to the South China Sea had no basis in international law. The tribunal also ruled that China’s claim to sovereignty based on historic rights had been extinguished when China ratified the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

Fan’s reported remarks on the South China Sea could be read as insinuating that Vietnam was not abiding by the “consensus reached by the leaders of the two countries and the two parties.” His reported intervention would have been inflammatory to Vietnam’s leaders for two reasons: first, because it was delivered by a military general and not a foreign ministry diplomat, and second, because it represented a reassertion of China’s nine-dash line and China’s claim to “indisputable sovereignty” over waters in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone, over which Vietnam has sovereign jurisdiction.

On June 22, China’s _Global Times_ reported that Vietnam had resumed oil exploration in disputed waters near the Paracel Islands this year and indirectly linked this with Fan’s cancellation of this year’s planned friendly border exchanges.

_Global Times_ did not cite official sources, but quoted civilian analyst Liu Feng as stating, “Vietnam unilaterally broke its consensus with China, which involved shelving disputes and joint development, and its move is aimed at strengthening its territorial claims over the area… Vietnam’s illegal actions undermined the stability of the South China Sea, and violated China’s sovereignty and maritime rights.”

The _Global Times_, however, confirmed that General Fan “unexpectedly cut short his trip to Vietnam” and quoted China’s Defense Ministry as reporting the border defense activities were canceled due to “working arrangements.” _Global Times_ also linked the cancellation of the border exchange to disagreement over the South China Sea by quoting “foreign media outlets.” The _Global Times _further noted “no official statement has yet been made by the Vietnamese side.”

A Hanoi-based source privately confirmed that a Vietnamese colleague who was to have attended the exchanges was told they were canceled and to remain in Hanoi.

This setback is a sign that China is becoming more assertive in response to potential oil exploration activities by the Philippines and actual oil exploration activities by Vietnam. But there are also other developments which, if taken together, explain Fan’s extraordinary about-face.

These developments include: the resumption of U.S. freedom of navigation patrols in the Spratly Islands by the Trump administration on May 24; China’s interception of a U.S. Navy P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft flying over the waters near Hainan Island, also on May 24; Phuc’s back-to-back visits to Washington and Tokyo in late May and early June, where defense relations and maritime security were discussed; joint naval exercises by the United States and Japan’s Maritime Self-Defense Force off the coast of Korea in early June; and strong criticism of China’s behavior in the South China Sea by the Australian prime minister and the defense ministers of the United States, Australia, and Japan at the Shangri-La Dialogue, also in early June.

Evidence for the linkage of Fan’s cancellation of the border exchange activities and actions by the United States and its allies may be found in the _Global Times’ _coverage of Fan’s visit. The _Global Times_ noted:

_A relaxation in the South China Sea situation is not in the desire of external powers such as the U.S. and Japan, which seek to turn the South China Sea into a place for geopolitical competition. They are more willing to see Vietnam and the Philippines make trouble for China, creating opportunities for them to interfere. They have now attached more importance to Hanoi after Manila changed its attitude._

There is speculation that Fan acted on his own volition; if so his actions were clumsy as such protests are normally handled by China’s Foreign Ministry. Fan’s remarks, coming from a very senior PLA general, would have implied the threat to use military force. Fan’s remarks were also counterproductive as they were unlikely to intimidate Vietnam’s leaders. In fact, Vietnamese sources reported in private that “Vietnamese leaders rebuked [Fan], and Fan was not happy, he decided to return [to] China at night.”

The abrupt cancellation of the fourth Vietnam-China border exchange undermines strategic trust between Hanoi and Beijing and represents the most significant setback in bilateral relations since the HD-981 oil rig incident in mid-2014.

Uncertainly hangs over whether or not Beijing will step up the pressure on Vietnam to demonstrate that Xi Jinping is a strong leader in advance of the 19th congress of the Communist Party of China. Vietnamese sources have privately speculated that China’s deployment of the mega oil drilling platform HD-981 in waters near the Paracels several days before Fan’s visit may portend a new crisis. These same sources have also circulated as yet unconfirmed reports that China has deployed 40 ships, vessels, and boats to the South China Sea.

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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> Vietnam is producing Kh-35 or Kh-35U?


Vietnam produces Kh35E. Right now the mainstay of our antiship missile. There are efforts to upgrade it to Kh35UE, longer range more lethal.


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## yugocrosrb95

@Viet 

The whole Kh-35E is being produced in Vietnam, including radar of it? If so then you basicaĺy just import the engine and radar to be placed inside shell your people are producing to get UE.

Since you are Vietnamese then submit this suggestion to your military.

Order as much turbofan engines used in Kh-35UE from both Russians and North Koreans to be replace turbojet of Kh-35E, Russians won't be able deliver as much radars as they could turbofan engines while North Korean variant of the radar is incompatible.

Turbojet used for Kh-35 could be used for a domestic target drone and UAV/UCAV.

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## Carlosa

*TENSIONS BUBBLE TO THE SURFACE IN CHINA-VIETNAM SPAT*

BY MURRAY HIEBERT AND GREGORY POLING | JUNE 28, 2017
AMTI UPDATE, CHINA, VIETNAM

https://amti.csis.org/tensions-bubble-china-vietnam/

Fan Changlong, vice chairman of China’s Central Military Commission, was scheduled to make a two-day official visit to Hanoi on June 18-19 before joining Vietnam’s defense minister Ngo Xuan Lich for a series of joint military patrols along the Sino-Vietnam land border from June 20 to 22. But something went very wrong because General Fan unexpectedly left Hanoi on June 18 after meetings with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, President Tran Dai Quang, and Defense Minister Lich.

China’s Defense Ministry announced the cancellation of the border exchanges two days later, blaming “reasons related to working arrangements.” The real story seems to be that simmering tensions between Beijing and Hanoi, which has been far more skeptical of Beijing’s recent charm offensive than Manila, erupted due to disagreements over oil and gas exploration.

Unidentified sources told _Jane_’s on June 20 that Fan left after Vietnamese officials rejected a demand to halt all oil and gas exploration within the nine-dash line. Wu Shicun, president of China’s National Institute for South China Sea Studies, speculated that the meetings broke down because “Beijing sees Vietnam as breaking its promises about not exploiting oil in disputed areas in the South China Sea.” Two areas—Blocks 118 and 136—appear to be at the center of the disagreement.






Activity in two oil and gas blocks off the Vietnam coast, block 118 and block 136, may be a cause for recently heightened tensions between Vietnam and China.
In January ExxonMobil announced plans to tap natural gas reserves off the coast of central Vietnam. The so-called “Blue Whale” project will take place in Block 118, a small portion of which overlaps with China’s nine-dash line. Beijing seems to claim “historic rights” over all oil and gas within the line, despite a ruling from an international tribunal last July rejecting such rights. The site of Exxon’s planned drilling operation lies near the nine-dash line—perhaps as close as 10 nautical miles—but remains outside it.

Of course, gas reserves don’t recognize boundaries, and Exxon’s drilling could be seen by Beijing as draining a basin that straddles the line—the same basin, in fact, that the Haiyang Shiyou 981 (HY981) deep-water drilling rig was exploring in 2014 when it sparked a months-long crisis between China and Vietnam. It is important to note that, while Block 118 overlaps the nine-dash line, it is firmly on Vietnam’s side of any future continental shelf delimitation.

Exxon’s work in Block 118 is likely an irritant for Beijing, but a more immediate trigger for the current spat is Vietnam’s plan to proceed with exploration of oil and gas reserves in Block 136, much farther south. That block sits on Vanguard Bank, an underwater feature that has been a bone of contention between Hanoi and Beijing for almost 30 years. The bank is believed to hold commercially viable hydrocarbon reserves. It is far from any disputed rocks or reefs, but Beijing continues to claim rights to it based on the nine-dash line. In 1992, China sold rights to the small U.S.-based Crestone Energy to explore for oil and gas in a huge block that included Vanguard Bank. That long-stalled contract overlaps with Vietnam’s own Block 136, which is currently held by Spain’s Repsol Exploration.

Since acquiring the block two years ago as part of a takeover of Australia’s Talisman Energy, Repsol has surveyed the area in preparation for exploration. Hanoi is rumored to have approved a plan for the company to soon undertake exploratory drilling despite objections from Beijing. Coincidentally (or not), Vice Chairman Fan and his delegation visited Spain immediately before their travel to Vietnam.





An unidentified Vietnamese ship has been operating in block 136 in a manner that suggests a patrol or a survey since June 19, the day after General Fan abruptly departed from Hanoi.
Neither Repsol nor Hanoi have made any officials announcements, but an unidentified Vietnamese ship appears to have been dispatched to patrol Block 136 immediately after Fan’s departure from Hanoi. According to data from Windward, a maritime data and risk analytics firm, the vessel arrived in the area on the morning of June 19 (local time) and has been operating in a pattern consistent with a survey or patrol.

These tensions are also playing out in the context of Vietnam’s steps to deepen security ties with the United States and Japan, no doubt irritating China further. Prime Minister Phuc visited the White House in late May, days after Washington had transferred a decommissioned U.S. _Hamilton_-class cutter to Vietnam’s Coast Guard. At the end of his visit, the two countries released a joint communiqué that announced that Vietnam would welcome the first visit by a U.S. aircraft carrier to Cam Ranh Bay, the deep-water seaport expanded by the Americans during the war that ended in 1975.

The United States and Vietnam also agreed to step up intelligence sharing. “We won’t be sharing intel on Islamic State in the Middle East,” a Vietnamese official joked, hinting at the fact that the information shared would be about maritime domain awareness in the South China Sea. Vietnam also expressed interest in acquiring more defense equipment from the United States, something made possible after Washington lifted its ban on lethal weapons sales a year ago. Vietnam defense minister Lich is also slated to make his maiden trip to Washington to meet Defense Secretary James Mattis in the coming months, possibly in August.

Phuc’s trip to Washington was quickly followed with a visit to Japan. According to a joint statement, Vietnam and Japan agreed on a “broad strategic partnership” and to increase their defense and security cooperation. Tokyo committed over $900 million in aid to Vietnam for various projects, including coast guard activities and the provision of six patrol boats. Shortly after the visit, Japan and Vietnam launched a joint exercise between their two coast guards that focused on combating illegal fishing, which likely prompted some heartburn in China.

From Hanoi’s point of view, Beijing’s objections to exploration in Blocks 118 and 136 are not only unfounded, but offensive. The areas are not in dispute because of overlapping continental shelves, only by virtue of the nine-dash line, which Hanoi and the international community at large do not recognize.

Meanwhile, China continues to explore for oil and gas around the mouth of the Gulf of Tonkin and the disputed Paracel Islands. On June 16, just before Fan arrived in Hanoi, China’s HY981 rig arrived just south of Hainan. According to an announcement by the China Maritime Safety Administration, it will operate in the area until September 15. The rig is on the Chinese side of the median line between the two nation’s coasts and, while the area in question is technically still disputed pending delimitation, it is almost certainly China’s. Blocks 118 and 136 are even more clearly Vietnam’s, and yet it is being told to stand down. That double standard is particularly galling to Hanoi’s leaders.





About Murray Hiebert
Murray Hiebert serves as senior fellow and deputy director of the Sumitro Chair for Southeast Asia Studies at CSIS in Washington, DC. He earlier worked as a journalist in Asia for the Wall Street Journal and the Far Eastern Economic Review.





About Gregory Poling
Gregory B. Poling is director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative and a fellow with the Southeast Asia Program at CSIS. He oversees research on U.S. foreign policy in the Asia Pacific, with a particular focus on the maritime domain and the countries of Southeast Asia. His research interests include the South China Sea disputes, democratization in Southeast Asia, and Asian multilateralism.

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## TenLua

TaiShang said:


> Together, stronger, bro.
> 
> Let's kick the US out of our region and install peace.



It was never about countries, race, or even religion. Its about the people struggling against an elite class that keeps the people divided. Specifically, the BIS bank in switzerland, central banks all over the world and the pedophiles who own all of us.


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## Viet

yugocrosrb95 said:


> @Viet
> 
> The whole Kh-35E is being produced in Vietnam, including radar of it? If so then you basicaĺy just import the engine and radar to be placed inside shell your people are producing to get UE.
> 
> Since you are Vietnamese then submit this suggestion to your military.
> 
> Order as much turbofan engines used in Kh-35UE from both Russians and North Koreans to be replace turbojet of Kh-35E, Russians won't be able deliver as much radars as they could turbofan engines while North Korean variant of the radar is incompatible.
> 
> Turbojet used for Kh-35 could be used for a domestic target drone and UAV/UCAV.


You have humor because I am Vietnamese I can submit suggestions. Ha ha ha. You are foreigner but can do the same my friend regardless.

Well North Korea is a textbook example for students where a country has acquired nuclear and missile technology in a short time span if a certain threshold is reached. Yes true we can learn from them. And I am pretty sure, we will copy them. No right now we can't make everything. Although little is disclosed as usual following tradition of Vietnamese Army, we can be certain except turbofan and missile guidance computer, which will be imported from Russia, VN makes the rest including launching tubes and fire control radar 3Ts-25E Garpun-B. We have the backing of a military superpower. The Russians will provide components to enable their Vietnamese comrades to produce 3,000 kh35 cruise missiles. You can understand the logic of the number: Vietnam calculates with the worst case, with a war of attrition, with missile saturation attacks on enemy destroyers.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> thanks for sharing us the pictures. Very nice ones.
> 
> Here are some nice pictures from China side. Just yesterday (June 28th), China launched the first unit of 055 destroyer in the JNCX shipyard in my hometown Shanghai. That's really a proud moment to me.
> 
> Given the high completion rate of the newly-launched 055 ship, we can expect it to be part of the PLAN CVBG in South China Sea in about 18~24 months.
> 
> See the huge Chinese flag in the first picture? Know what is behind it? It's another unit of 055 ship, which will be launched soon. Oh, forget to mention, Dalian Shipyard is building 2x 055 ships too. All the rest three ones are to be launched in the next 12 months.
> 
> For the 2nd picture, see the grey ship at the background? I mean the grey one at another side of the pool (left side). That's a 052D destroyer under building. It's just one of the five 052D ships that are under construction in JNCX shipyard.
> 
> Oh, forget to mention, two days before the 055 launch, i.e. June 26th, Dalian Shipyard launched a new unit of 052D ship. Dalian is currently building three 052D ships in parallel.
> 
> Another wonderful news to share, Ma Weiming, the god father to PLAN Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMAL) system, he just confirmed that PLAN's 3rd carrier will be equipped with EMAL system that Ma developed. And the building of the 3rd carrier will be started soon. So we can expect the new carrier with EMAL system sailing in South China Sea in about six years from now.
> 
> Hope our Vietnam comrades could feel happy for the small progress made by their Chinese comrades.
> View attachment 407180
> 
> 
> View attachment 407181
> 
> 
> View attachment 407182


impressive but honestly I must disappoint you. even you can build 1,000 warships as seen during the heyday of the Ming, China led by Xi Jinping and his comrades, supported by cheer leading folks, united in nationalistic policy will miss the target of bringing the imperial glorious days back to China. there is something you are missing, and obviously you will never learn.

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## IblinI

Viet said:


> impressive but honestly I must disappoint you. even you can build 1,000 warships as seen during the heyday of the Ming, China led by Xi Jinping and his comrades, supported by cheer leading folks, united in nationalistic policy will miss the target of bringing the imperial glorious days back to China. there is something you are missing, and obviously you will never learn.


You have obviously reply to the wrong person, US arm forces exist in almost every hot zone on this world as we speak, so the title "Imperial" should be honorably given to them.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> impressive but honestly I must disappoint you. even you can build 1,000 warships as seen during the heyday of the Ming, China led by Xi Jinping and his comrades, supported by cheer leading folks, united in nationalistic policy will miss the target of bringing the imperial glorious days back to China. there is something you are missing, and obviously you will never learn.


The so-called imperial glorious is not what we are seeking for. All that we want is nothing but to make China fully modernized, no matter economy-wise, technology-wise, or military-wise. And of course, during that process, we also hope to achieve some minor targets, e.g. to take back the islands that stolen by our neighbors when China was in her weak era.

Of course that's not an easy task. We are fully aware of the difficulties and challenges behind. But we have patience. Be patient please, you and me are both young enough.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> The so-called imperial glorious is not what we are seeking for. All that we want is nothing but to make China fully modernized, no matter economy-wise, technology-wise, or military-wise. And of course, during that process, we also hope to achieve some minor targets, e.g. to take back the islands that stolen by our neighbors when China was in her weak era.
> 
> Of course that's not an easy task. We are fully aware of the difficulties and challenges behind. But we have patience. Be patient please, you and me are both young enough.


Your islands were stolen when you were weak, and you want to take back once your 5th carriers and 20th destroyers hit the waters? Ha ha ...your assessment is wrong. What you describe is not weakness but incompetence. People can understand weakness but never forgive incompetence. After you have built 10 carriers and 50 destroyers? .



YuChen said:


> You have obviously reply to the wrong person, US arm forces exist in almost every hot zone on this world as we speak, so the title "Imperial" should be honorably given to them.


Look, we don't care a penny if you take over the world and enslave all people of different skin colors including the White there. However we are allergic if you want to rape Vietnam, destroy our lands and kill our people.

Get it!


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Your islands were stolen when you were weak, and you want to take back once your 5th carriers and 20th destroyers hit the waters? Ha ha ...your assessment is wrong. What you bescribe is not weakness but incompetence. People can understand weakness but never forgive incompetence. When will you be able to take over Taiwan? After you have built 10 carriers and 50 destroyers? We could take Taiwan tomorrow if we just had a half of your strength today.


hysteria won't be any helpful to you or make your country any better. Only hard work can.

Have half of China's strength and you can do better? That's very cheap words like if I'm given have half of Elon Musk's wealth and I can make a more competitive company to beat Tesla the next day.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> hysteria won't be any helpful to you or make your country any better. Only hard work can.
> 
> Have half of China's strength and you can do better? That's very cheap words like if I'm given have half of Elon Musk's wealth and I can make a more competitive company to beat Tesla the next day.


Not hysterical at all. Look, when are you able to take back Manchuria from the Russians? Will we both see it happening in our life time? Expecting we sit still while you prepare to attack is avery optimistic assumption. Even you successfully take an island from Vietnam, we take two in return. I could expect you have learned a bit from previous encounters.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Not hysterical at all. Look, when are you able to take back Manchuria from the Russians? Will we both see it happening in our life time? Expecting we sit still while you prepare to attack is avery optimistic assumption. Even you successfully take an island from Vietnam, we take two in return. I could expect you have learned a bit from previous encounters.


be patient my friend, we two are both young enough to witness the changes in the coming decades.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> be patient my friend, we two are both young enough to witness the changes in the coming decades.


perfect, you go your way, while we go ours. hopefully our ways don't cross.


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## Nike

seems he share the same concern with me





A Type 59 tank, in use during the Vietnam War.
Image Credit: Wikimedia Commons/ Bukvoed
*The Weak Points in Vietnam's Miliary*
Despite significant defense investments, some neglected portions of Vietnam’s military are vulnerable to Chinese attack.

By Shang-su Wu
June 27, 2017


In the last two decades, Hanoi has concentrated its limited resource to strengthen some of its aerial and maritime capabilities, but the rest of Vietnam’s military equipment is moving toward obsolescence due to lack of renewal. Despite lack of a universal definition, military obsolescence can be seen from two perspectives: absolute and relative. The former refers to operational readiness, and the latter signifies a comparison of capabilities between a state and its potential enemy. In Vietnam’s case, the relative perspective is more salient because of China’s comprehensive military modernization. While Hanoi’s new fighters, submarines, and frigates are not inferior to their Chinese counterparts, other Vietnamese capabilities would be vulnerabilities available for Beijing to exploit. Minesweeping, armored vehicles, and artillery are three major examples.

*Minesweeping*

The Vietnam People’s Army Navy (VPAN) possesses four kinds of minesweeping vessels, Project 266, Project 1258, Project 1265, and Project T-361; all are Soviet legacies from the Cold War with old countermine technology, small capacity, and short durability. Vietnam’s long coastline and large maritime territory puts a heavy burden on those minesweepers. Given that the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is prepared to create a blockade by laying sea mines, the VPAN may not be able to keep its sea lines of communication (SLOCs) open with its limited minesweeping capacity.

Aside from the six submarines, Hanoi lacks effective means to retaliate with the same tactic to disrupt China’s SLOCs. Of course, the VAPN can attack the PLAN’s surface vessels and aircraft while laying sea mines offshore, but countering sea mines laid by submarines is a different challenge thanks to Hanoi’s limited anti-submarine capability. When options for denial and punishment are unavailable, Vietnam has to make a difficult decision between enduring the impact, submitting, or escalating he conflict; all are unpleasant.

*Armored Vehicles*

Back in the Cold War era, Vietnam received a lot of land systems from the Soviet Union in considerable quality and quantity. But more than a quarter of century since the end of the military aid, those assets have gradually become outdated in the face of China’s continuous military modernization.

Currently, the Vietnamese main battle tanks (MBTs) are all legacies from the front part of the Cold War, T-54/55s, T-62s, and Type 59s. In contrast, the PLA has modernized its MBT units with Type 88, Type 96, and Type 99, one or more generations ahead of the VPA’s, reflecting greater firepower, mobility, and protection. Although Hanoi introduced Israeli technologies to upgrade its T-55 MBTs, the generation gap was not fully overcome. In other words, an armor battle between China and Vietnam would favor the former.

Since MBTs are usually the spearhead for offense, this technological gap would determine the strategic situation on the Sino-Vietnamese borders. Although anti-tank missiles have demonstrated promise in various cases, the VPA’s missiles — the 9M14M and 9M111 — are also Cold War legacies, meaning their damage to the Chinese MBTs’ new armor could be uncertain. Besides, the VPA have both self-propelled and towed anti-tank guns, mainly designs from World War II, and thee should not be high expectations for their performance.

*Artillery*

Having benefited from later designs and technologies, Chinese artillery systems, especially self-propelled guns and multi-launch rocket systems (MLRS), have superior ranges to their Vietnamese counterparts. Longer ranges not only provide the PLA artillery more flexibility than the VPA, but also reduce the latter’s opportunity to retaliate. Although Hanoi has artillery rockets and missiles with longer ranges, such as the Israeli EXTRA and Russian R-17 (Scud), to apply them would invite stronger retaliation from Beijing’s larger arsenals of standoff munitions. If the VPA’s artillery is suppressed by that of the PLA, the former’s frontline units, including MBTs, would be in an even worse operational condition.

The demarcation of land borders through bilateral treaties between Hanoi and Beijing in the 1990s removed a common cause of armed conflict: territorial disputes. China would not want to create a negative impression through a land invasion. However, the VPA’s inferior military capability on land defense still presents an effective means for the PLA to exert strategic pressure. Exercises, forward deployments, and even exchanges of fire on a small scale would send additional messages from China. Despite higher political costs for Beijing, Hanoi is not remote from the border. The mountainous terrain between the Red River Delta and the borders would help the VPA to resist a northward invasion, but does nothing to deter artillery rockets and missiles, not to mention air raids. China thus has a spectrum of operation options on land to use against Vietnam.

These capabilities can be improved a lot with sufficient investment, but the allocation of the defense budget would be a dilemma for Hanoi. On the one hand, even with the current emphasis on air defense and sea denial, these capabilities have not reached an equivalent stage vis-à-vis their Chinese counterparts. Shifting resources to other areas may disrupt the existing projects. On the other hand, the strategic vulnerabilities mentioned above will be worse for aging, given no considerable investment.

Raising the budget may solve the dilemma but it is likely to create a larger problem in balancing between defense and other needs. Building allies to cover up the insufficiencies in Hanoi’s military capabilities would be another option, but it would work against Vietnam’s current foreign policy. Hostility toward China may be too strong to retain Hanoi’s hedging policy toward Beijing. Also, even an alliance might not give Vietnam the support it needs. As there is no easy solution, Vietnamese defense planners will be obsessed with the challenges originating from military obsolescence in the foreseeable future.

_Shang-su Wu is a research fellow in the Military Studies Program of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (RSIS), Nanyang Technological University._

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## Viet

*Vietnam/Russia Summit* (Jun 28 - July 1)

Not too bad: both countries sign 20 joint investment programs worth $10 billion. In addition, Vietnam and Russia
establish an investment fund ($500 mln).

More:
http://tass.com/economy/953976

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## Viva_Viet

madokafc said:


> @jhungary @Carlosa
> 
> seems he share the same concern with me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Type 59 tank, in use during the Vietnam War.
> Image Credit: Wikimedia Commons/ Bukvoed
> *The Weak Points in Vietnam's Miliary*
> Despite significant defense investments, some neglected portions of Vietnam’s military are vulnerable to Chinese attack.
> 
> By Shang-su Wu
> June 27, 2017
> 
> 
> In the last two decades, Hanoi has concentrated its limited resource to strengthen some of its aerial and maritime capabilities, but the rest of Vietnam’s military equipment is moving toward obsolescence due to lack of renewal. Despite lack of a universal definition, military obsolescence can be seen from two perspectives: absolute and relative. The former refers to operational readiness, and the latter signifies a comparison of capabilities between a state and its potential enemy. In Vietnam’s case, the relative perspective is more salient because of China’s comprehensive military modernization. While Hanoi’s new fighters, submarines, and frigates are not inferior to their Chinese counterparts, other Vietnamese capabilities would be vulnerabilities available for Beijing to exploit. Minesweeping, armored vehicles, and artillery are three major examples.
> 
> *Minesweeping*
> 
> The Vietnam People’s Army Navy (VPAN) possesses four kinds of minesweeping vessels, Project 266, Project 1258, Project 1265, and Project T-361; all are Soviet legacies from the Cold War with old countermine technology, small capacity, and short durability. Vietnam’s long coastline and large maritime territory puts a heavy burden on those minesweepers. Given that the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is prepared to create a blockade by laying sea mines, the VPAN may not be able to keep its sea lines of communication (SLOCs) open with its limited minesweeping capacity.
> 
> *Enjoying this article?* Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
> Aside from the six submarines, Hanoi lacks effective means to retaliate with the same tactic to disrupt China’s SLOCs. Of course, the VAPN can attack the PLAN’s surface vessels and aircraft while laying sea mines offshore, but countering sea mines laid by submarines is a different challenge thanks to Hanoi’s limited anti-submarine capability. When options for denial and punishment are unavailable, Vietnam has to make a difficult decision between enduring the impact, submitting, or escalating he conflict; all are unpleasant.
> 
> *Armored Vehicles*
> 
> Back in the Cold War era, Vietnam received a lot of land systems from the Soviet Union in considerable quality and quantity. But more than a quarter of century since the end of the military aid, those assets have gradually become outdated in the face of China’s continuous military modernization.
> 
> Currently, the Vietnamese main battle tanks (MBTs) are all legacies from the front part of the Cold War, T-54/55s, T-62s, and Type 59s. In contrast, the PLA has modernized its MBT units with Type 88, Type 96, and Type 99, one or more generations ahead of the VPA’s, reflecting greater firepower, mobility, and protection. Although Hanoi introduced Israeli technologies to upgrade its T-55 MBTs, the generation gap was not fully overcome. In other words, an armor battle between China and Vietnam would favor the former.
> 
> Since MBTs are usually the spearhead for offense, this technological gap would determine the strategic situation on the Sino-Vietnamese borders. Although anti-tank missiles have demonstrated promise in various cases, the VPA’s missiles — the 9M14M and 9M111 — are also Cold War legacies, meaning their damage to the Chinese MBTs’ new armor could be uncertain. Besides, the VPA have both self-propelled and towed anti-tank guns, mainly designs from World War II, and thee should not be high expectations for their performance.
> 
> *Artillery*
> 
> Having benefited from later designs and technologies, Chinese artillery systems, especially self-propelled guns and multi-launch rocket systems (MLRS), have superior ranges to their Vietnamese counterparts. Longer ranges not only provide the PLA artillery more flexibility than the VPA, but also reduce the latter’s opportunity to retaliate. Although Hanoi has artillery rockets and missiles with longer ranges, such as the Israeli EXTRA and Russian R-17 (Scud), to apply them would invite stronger retaliation from Beijing’s larger arsenals of standoff munitions. If the VPA’s artillery is suppressed by that of the PLA, the former’s frontline units, including MBTs, would be in an even worse operational condition.
> 
> The demarcation of land borders through bilateral treaties between Hanoi and Beijing in the 1990s removed a common cause of armed conflict: territorial disputes. China would not want to create a negative impression through a land invasion. However, the VPA’s inferior military capability on land defense still presents an effective means for the PLA to exert strategic pressure. Exercises, forward deployments, and even exchanges of fire on a small scale would send additional messages from China. Despite higher political costs for Beijing, Hanoi is not remote from the border. The mountainous terrain between the Red River Delta and the borders would help the VPA to resist a northward invasion, but does nothing to deter artillery rockets and missiles, not to mention air raids. China thus has a spectrum of operation options on land to use against Vietnam.
> 
> These capabilities can be improved a lot with sufficient investment, but the allocation of the defense budget would be a dilemma for Hanoi. On the one hand, even with the current emphasis on air defense and sea denial, these capabilities have not reached an equivalent stage vis-à-vis their Chinese counterparts. Shifting resources to other areas may disrupt the existing projects. On the other hand, the strategic vulnerabilities mentioned above will be worse for aging, given no considerable investment.
> 
> Raising the budget may solve the dilemma but it is likely to create a larger problem in balancing between defense and other needs. Building allies to cover up the insufficiencies in Hanoi’s military capabilities would be another option, but it would work against Vietnam’s current foreign policy. Hostility toward China may be too strong to retain Hanoi’s hedging policy toward Beijing. Also, even an alliance might not give Vietnam the support it needs. As there is no easy solution, Vietnamese defense planners will be obsessed with the challenges originating from military obsolescence in the foreseeable future.
> 
> _Shang-su Wu is a research fellow in the Military Studies Program of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (RSIS), Nanyang Technological University._


Forget that VN can enrich uranium in our soil while JP are not allowed, it means we can make nuke warhead ?? And we already possed nuke capable missile Shaddock, range 550km.

Full scale Land attack to VN will face wt nuclear war and CN will.not like that.

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## Viet

Moscow June 29. Meeting with Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev


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## terranMarine

Viva_Viet said:


> Forget that VN can enrich uranium in our soil while JP are not allowed, it means we can make nuke warhead ?? And we already possed nuke capable missile Shaddock, range 550km.
> 
> Full scale Land attack to VN will face wt nuclear war and CN will.not like that.



The US killed off Taiwan and South Korean nuclear programs. If Vietnam is gonna develop nuke, the US and the rest of the world including China will completely sanction Vietnam.  What's the point bragging about VN developing nukes, it's called wet dream.

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## Viet

Welcome to Hamburg

The German government led by Angela Merkel invites Vietnam as APEC chairman to G20 summit. 20,000 policemen are deployed to protect the guests. The city of Hamburg will turn during the summit into an iron fortress. Not a bird nor butterfly flies in and out undetected. Large scale demonstrations are expected including clashes. Crazy.


----------



## TenLua

terranMarine said:


> The US killed of Taiwan and South Korean nuclear programs. If Vietnam is gonna develop nuke, the US and the rest of the world including China will completely sanction Vietnam.  What's the point bragging about VN developing nukes, it's called wet dream.



It's hard to argue with this fact. 

Vietnam do not need nukes. They'll mess you up one way or another



Viet said:


> Welcome to Hamburg
> 
> The German government led by Angela Merkel invites Vietnam as APEC chairman to G20 summit. 20,000 policemen are deployed to protect the guests. The city of Hamburg will turn during the summit into an iron fortress. Not a bird nor butterfly flies in and out undetected. Large scale demonstrations are expected including clashes. Crazy.
> 
> View attachment 407325
> 
> View attachment 407326



Gotta protect the slave owners from their slaves.


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## Viva_Viet

terranMarine said:


> Uh okay


Yeah, try to stop our oil drilling in your so called 9 dash lines now. Dont just blah blah on internet


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> It's hard to argue with this fact.
> 
> Vietnam do not need nukes. They'll mess you up one way or another
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta protect the slave owners from their slaves.


Slavery no longer exists. Come to Hamburg if you don't believe. Anyway I am thinking to post some nice pictures of the city, especially when VN delegation is in the city. Or the german police forces conduct anti terror operation. Interesting for some probably 

Moscow June 29. apropos nuclear weapons, meeting the man with a finger on the red button: Vladimir Putin. The $10.5 billion joint investment fund appears will be shared 50:50 on projects in Vietnam and Russia.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Slavery no longer exists. Come to Hamburg if you don't believe. Anyway I am thinking to post some nice pictures of the city, especially when VN delegation is in the city. Or the german police forces conduct anti terror operation. Interesting for some probably
> 
> Moscow June 29. apropos nuclear weapons, meeting the man with a finger on the red button: Vladimir Putin. The $10.5 billion joint investment fund appears will be shared 50:50 on projects in Vietnam and Russia.
> 
> View attachment 407383





> 5. Chủ tịch nước Trần Đại Quang và Tổng thống Vladimir Putin nhất trí hai bên sẽ tiếp tục hợp tác xây dựng Trung tâm Khoa học và Công nghệ hạt nhân tại Việt Nam, ủng hộ việc thực hiện nhất quán Chương trình hợp tác giữa Việt Nam và Nga trong lĩnh vực sử dụng năng lượng nguyên tử vào mục đích hòa bình ký ngày 23/5/2017 tại Hà Nội.


Translating..
5. President Tran Dai Quang and President Vladimir Putin agreed that the two sides will continue to co-operate in building the Vietnam Center for Nuclear Science and Technology in Vietnam and support the implementation of the Vietnam and Russia in the field of atomic energy using for peaceful purposes signed on 23/May/2017 in Hanoi.
https://www.hcmcpv.org.vn/tin-tuc/v...-chung-ve-chuyen-tham-cua-chu-tich-1491834814

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Translating..
> 5. President Tran Dai Quang and President Vladimir Putin agreed that the two sides will continue to co-operate in building the Vietnam Center for Nuclear Science and Technology in Vietnam and support the implementation of the Vietnam and Russia in the field of atomic energy using for peaceful purposes signed on 23/May/2017 in Hanoi.
> https://www.hcmcpv.org.vn/tin-tuc/v...-chung-ve-chuyen-tham-cua-chu-tich-1491834814


The plant will become a beautiful technical masterpiece, I believe. Yes we are a peaceful nation so nobody should be worried by VN nuclear program though.


----------



## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Joining an alliance is a 2 way street, they also would need to want to make an alliance with Vietnam, something similar to what PH has with USA, but do they really want to go that far? Does Vietnam want to go that far? Because once VN makes an alliance with USA, that's also the moment that China would see Vietnam as an enemy.
> 
> The truth is, Vietnam is the only one in the region with the guts to oppose China and it can certainly do a lot more than PH and it can also offer a lot to an ally, like Cam Ranh base, etc, something that USA can actually use and it probably wants it really bad, but is USA willing to go the extra mile and put itself on the line to cooperate militarily with Vietnam and fight if necessary? I'm not sure about that. And can Vietnam really depend and trust such an ally? I'm not sure about that.


We are brave but not stupid. Sure VN does not need to join any military alliance right now, but should someone, bigger than you, having a giant army with more men and guns, run amok then we should be prepared for the showdown.

Check the flag: seen in Germany, VN is flanked by two NATO members UK and Italy


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Check the flag: seen in Germany, VN is flanked by two NATO members UK and Italy


why is this special and makes you that happy?
The Chinese flag is flanked by Germany and Denmark flags. But does it mean anything in specical?


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## Viet

no new subs. a big disappointment. Vietnam/Russia summit is concentrated on economy.

@Carlosa

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## Viet

Military exercise. Halting amphibious assault of an imaginary enemy.

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## Viet

Su27/30 from the Air Force

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## Viet

*Rosatom to build Nuclear Technology Centre in Vietnam*

Yesterday, 22:57
Russian online journal







Rosatom State Atomic Energy Corporation and the Ministry of Science and Technology of Vietnam will create a Center of Nuclear Science and Technology in Vietnam, as it follows from documentation published on the Kremlin’s website.

“The Memorandum of understanding between Rosatom State Atomic Energy Corporation and the Ministry of Science and Technology of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam on a plan of the implementation of a project for construction Nuclear Science and Technologies Center in Vietnam”, the document reads.

The announcement came following a meeting of Russian President Vladimir Putin and President of Vietnam Tran Dai Quang.

Apart from that, the parties have agreed to expand areas of exploration and production of oil on the continental shelf of Vietnam.

http://russianconstruction.com/news...ild-nuclear-technology-centre-in-vietnam.html

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> no new subs. a big disappointment. Vietnam/Russia summit is concentrated on economy.
> 
> @Carlosa



It is already well known that Vietnam plans to buy western subs.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> It is already well known that Vietnam plans to buy western subs.


I believe we are better off by acquiring more advanced russian subs, if possible buying the technology and building them domestically. I know it is not an easy task, both in money and politics, because the latter we can assume our northern neighbor will put enormous pressure on Russia to sabotage the deal. Buying western submarines is certainly nice, I wish that happening, but it is even a more painful process and a longer way. There are still too many obstacles with too many still consider Vietnam as socialist communist country with human rights problems. We will see how it goes.

Regardless no new submarines with cruise missiles but soon completed: new highspeed submarine Fibre optic cables will connect Vietnam to Japan in the East and France in the West. Two Vietnamese telecom companies are participating in the construction of the connections. The first phase has become operational.

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## Viet

*Moscow*

Vietnamese army theatre troop as the Red Army in a Moscow theater in anniversary of the victory over Hitler Deutschland.


























*Hamburg*

During the upcoming G20 summit in Hamburg, the German government issues a special permit: the foreign Secret Services are allowed to carry weapons. From the news, the special permit is given to Vietnam, the United States, UK, Mexico, South Africa and the Netherlands. The Security Service of the Turkey is not permitted to carry weapons. The Germans are very angry over the Turks because of several reasons. The city is ready. The German police has prepared en mass prison cells for unwanted guests and other individuals 















*Canada*

A remarkable interview with the new Canadian ambassador to Vietnam: Ping Kitnikone. Among other things, she wants to see Canada to strengthen relations with Vietnam in the spheres of economy, aerospace and defense. Especially the latter with regular visits of Canadian warships.

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## Viet

Onboard of historic batteship Aurora
(now as maritime museum) in St. Petersburg

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## Carlosa

*EXCLUSIVE: Pentagon sails destroyer near disputed island in South China Sea, officials say*
By Lucas TomlinsonPublished July 02, 2017
Fox News







USS Stethem destroyer vessel arrives at a military port for an official visit, in Shanghai (Reuters)

For the second time since President Trump took office, the Pentagon dispatched a U.S. Navy warship to sail near a disputed island claimed by China in the South China Sea, two U.S. defense officials told Fox News.

The USS Stethem, a guided-missile destroyer based in Japan, sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton Island, which is part of the Paracel Islands located in the South China Sea between China and Vietnam.

The destroyer was trailed by a Chinese warship during its Sunday voyage. 

While occupied by China, Vietnam and Taiwan also lay claim to the island. A defense official said the operation challenged Vietnam and Taiwan's claims to Triton Island in addition to China. 

Twelve nautical miles is the territorial boundary that extends beyond the shores of all nations, sailing inside that distance sends a signal the United States does not recognize the claim.

The move comes as the Trump administration appears to be losing patience with Beijing over its continued military build-up in the South China Sea. The U.S. has been frustrated with Beijing’s failure to reign in North Korea's nuclear and missile programs.

Triton Island is not one of China's seven artificial islands in the region. It has been constructed in the past few years. The U.S. Navy last sailed a warship off the coast of Triton Island in October. The Obama administration conducted similar operations.

The Pentagon wants to conduct what it calls "freedom of navigation" operations, or FONOPS, to challenge China's claims with enough frequency in the hopes they become more routine and not as newsworthy, according to an official with knowledge of the discussions. 

Lt. Cmdr. Matt Knight, a spokesman for the U.S. Pacific, would not confirm the operation but said in a statement to Fox News, "We conduct routine and regular FONOPs, as we have done in the past and will continue to do in the future."

In late May, another guided-missile destroyer, USS Dewey, sailed approximately six miles from one of China's man-made islands in the South China Sea, a first for the Pentagon since Trump assumed office. The American warship conducted a "man-overboard" drill off the coast of Mischief Reef sending a signal to Beijing that the United States does not honor its claim to the reef--one of seven former reefs China has turned into artificial islands. Three contain runways and other military fortifications.

"Fake islands should not be believed by real people," said the head of the U.S. Pacific Command, Admiral Harry Harris, in a speech Wednesday in Brisbane, where the United States is participating in the largest ever joint military exercise with Australia, aimed in part to send a message to Beijing. 

"China is using its military and economic power to erode the rules-based international order," Harris added. 

Friday, new satellite imagery published by the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) part of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think-tank showed new military facilities including radar systems being installed on Mischief, Fiery Cross and Subi Reefs in the Spratly Islands located south of the Parcel Islands in the South China Sea. 

While U.S. officials had seen the build-up for months, they are more concerned about the potential for China to place advanced surface-to-air missiles on the artificial islands, which could challenge U.S. military flights in the region. Fox News first reported in December that China moved SA-21 missile batteries with a 250-mile range to the island province of Hainan for training, which could be sent to the artificial islands at a later date. For the time being, they remain inside China. 

The last time the U.S. Navy challenged China's claims in the South China Sea, the Trump administration pushed back on accusations it was turning a blind eye to China's military build-up on its artificial islands, while looking for Beijing to help with negotiations to halt North Korea's nuclear weapons and missile programs.

"While I greatly appreciate the efforts of President Xi & China to help with North Korea, it has not worked out. At least I know China tried!" Trump said in a tweet last month.

On Friday, the Trump administration unveiled new sanctions against a Chinese bank linked to North Korea's nuclear weapons and missile programs, a day after announcing a new $1.4 billion arms sale to Taiwan. 

Announcing the sanctions, Treasury Secretary Steve Munchin said the move was not in retribution for Beijing failing to rein in North Korea. "This is not directed at China, this is directed at a bank, as well as individuals and entities in China," he said.

China is sending messages of its own.

As Beijing marked the 20th anniversary of Hong Kong's handover from British rule this weekend, President Xi Jinping presided over the largest military parade ever held in the territory. Standing in the back of a jeep, Xi was driven past more than 3,000 assembled troops in formation in a show of strength. 

On Wednesday, China launched the first of its newest class of destroyer called the Type 055, which many analysts say resembles the size and capability of the U.S. Navy's Arleigh-Burke class of guided-missile destroyers, like the one which conducted the operation near the contested Chinese island this weekend. 

According to the Center for a New American Security (CNAS), China has 183 cruisers, destroyers, coastal ships and submarines compared wth 188 for the U.S. Navy. CNAS projected in a March report that China will surpass the United States Navy in these types of warships by the end of the next decade, one of the reasons the U.S. Navy has requested a buildup to a 350-ship fleet, a view shared by many in Congress. 

China claims most of the South China Sea where more than $5 trillion of commerce passes through each year. 

Last week, the U.S. State Department called out China for being one of the worst human trafficking offenders--dropping Beijing to its lowest designation joining Iran, North Korea and Russia. The report said China had done little to stop what has amounted to modern slavery and sex trafficking affecting millions. 


_Lucas Tomlinson is the Pentagon and State Department producer for Fox News Channel. You can follow him on Twitter: @LucasFoxNews
_

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## Viet

the government chief Phuc is the man in hurry. 

Next stop: G20 summit in Hamburg and an important visit to the Netherlands. the well organised Vietnamese communities in Germany, Austria, Poland and the Czech Republic have sent a letter to Angela Merkel, asking her government to bring the tension in the SCS, caused by chinese arrogance on the table during the summit. Lets hope we won´t see any violent clashes between Vietnamese and Chinese groups. the chinese apparently live in fear, they make preparations, chinese ambassies and consulats are seen high walls and barrikaded, as if vietnamese gangster could storm their valued representatives in Europe and take them hostage. anyway the chinese have no reason to complain. they are the one that seek confrontation.

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## Carlosa

*Interesting info from Twitter:*

Now we now why China was so mad at Vietnam - Spanish company Repsol drilled in Block 136/03 (Vanguard Bank, near Spratly Islands). Spudded on 21 June with the Deep sea Metro I drillship.

Drilling was underway as General Fan was visiting Spain (Repsol HQ) & Hanoi. China made verbal protests but did not physically intervene.

Credit to Vietnam for a brave action.
Credit to Spain for not giving up to Chinese complains and threats!

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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Interesting info from Twitter:*
> 
> Now we now why China was so mad at Vietnam - Spanish company Repsol drilled in Block 136/03 (Vanguard Bank, near Spratly Islands). Spudded on 21 June with the Deep sea Metro I drillship.
> 
> Drilling was underway as General Fan was visiting Spain (Repsol HQ) & Hanoi. China made verbal protests but did not physically intervene.
> 
> Credit to Vietnam for a brave action, credit to China for abiding by UNCLOS tribunal ruling! (so far).
> Credit to Spain for not giving up to Chinese complains and threats!


credit to China for abiding by UNCLOS tribunal ruling!


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Interesting info from Twitter:*
> 
> Now we now why China was so mad at Vietnam - Spanish company Repsol drilled in Block 136/03 (Vanguard Bank, near Spratly Islands). Spudded on 21 June with the Deep sea Metro I drillship.
> 
> Drilling was underway as General Fan was visiting Spain (Repsol HQ) & Hanoi. China made verbal protests but did not physically intervene.
> 
> Credit to Vietnam for a brave action, credit to China for abiding by UNCLOS tribunal ruling! (so far).
> Credit to Spain for not giving up to Chinese complains and threats!


Spain does the right thing. I would understand their artificial anger and theatrical piece if we drill in the East China Sea, but hey we drill before our coasts but they complain and threaten us? I think we should develop a plan of laying thousands of sea mines along our coast and islands, even with the risk of bringing the entire region's commercial sea traffic to a standstill. Let's see how long they will survive without oil from Middle East.

Some recent pictures

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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> credit to China for abiding by UNCLOS tribunal ruling!



That's what the twitter info said, they are not my words and actually, I think the Chinese will come up with something, we'll soon find out.

Deleted that sentence, they don't deserve credit for anything.

The map shows the location of the oil well area (Block 136) where the Spanish company is drilling.

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## Viet

*25,000 km long route Asia-Africa-Europe 1 (AAE-1)*

Realized much quicker than expected: Vietnam connecting France via west route is operational, according to state-run Vietnam Posts and Telecommunications Group (VNPT) on Monday.

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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> *Interesting info from Twitter:*
> 
> Now we now why China was so mad at Vietnam - Spanish company Repsol drilled in Block 136/03 (Vanguard Bank, near Spratly Islands). Spudded on 21 June with the Deep sea Metro I drillship.
> 
> Drilling was underway as General Fan was visiting Spain (Repsol HQ) & Hanoi. China made verbal protests but did not physically intervene.
> 
> Credit to Vietnam for a brave action.
> Credit to Spain for not giving up to Chinese complains and threats!



Carlosa, how do I get into a spain woman's heart?


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's what the twitter info said, they are not my words and actually, I think the Chinese will come up with something, we'll soon find out.
> 
> Deleted that sentence, they don't deserve credit for anything.
> 
> The map shows the location of the oil well area (Block 136) where the Spanish company is drilling.
> 
> View attachment 408025


Can u tell us why a Spanish company support VN in this case ?? Normally, only Russia and India support VN against CN.


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## Aqsuperman

A "friendly meeting and exercise" between countries. All fun and game for now, i guess.


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## TenLua

Viva_Viet said:


> Can u tell us why a Spanish company support VN in this case ?? Normally, only Russia and India support VN against CN.



Profit.


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## Viet

frequency said:


> Carlosa, how do I get into a spain woman's heart?


Learn Spanish! But be warned if you believe German is difficult, French is hell, then you haven´t learned Spanish yet.


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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> Profit.


I think CN always can give more profit than VN to Spain. So, it should have another purpose.

-----------------
News abt Oil drilling. Oil oil fields are running out of oil. New ones with support from US-Spain oil companies will help Vn to achieve the target

*PetroVietnam to raise oil extraction target by 1mn tons in 2017*

TUOI TRE NEWS

UPDATED : 04/20/2017 15:32 GMT + 7





PrevNext
*State-run oil and gas giant PetroVietnam (PVN) has announced plans to hike its yearly oil extraction by one million metric tons in 2017, following a government directive aimed at boosting the country’s economic growth.*

Critics of the plan assert that sustainable economic growth requires more attention to long-term solutions with more measurable effectiveness.

According to Nguyen Quoc Thap, vice-CEO of PVN, the group’s plans to increase their oil extraction targets this year coincide with plans to raise production across all of its drills.

However, Thap admitted that waning global oil prices could be an obstacle to reaching the ambitious target.

If the global oil prices plateau at their current rate of US$55 per barrel, coupled with PVN’s economic and technological preparations, the group could still meet its target, Thap said.

Despite raising their production targets, PVN’s 2017 goals still lag behind its 2016 production, he added.

The group extracted 3.46 million metric tons of oil and captured VND117 trillion ($5 billion) in revenue in the first quarter of this year, 5.5 percent and 18 percent above its respective targets.

PVN hopes to make an additional $375 million in revenue in 2017 with its added production, assuming oil prices stay above $50 per barrel.

Thap noted however that the group’s increased revenue does not necessarily mean a significantly bigger contribution to the public budget, though he refused to disclose a specific number.

*Sustainable solutions needed*

Dang Duc Anh, a senior analyst at the National Center for Socio-Economic Information and Forecast (NCIF), believes that PVN’s increased extraction will not be much of a boost to Vietnam’s economic expansion.

According to NCIF estimates, one million additional metric tons of oil in PVN’s production would only lead to a 0.25 percent boost to the country’s economy.

“Despite PVN’s 5.5-percent over-performance in production during the first quarter of 2017, its growth rate experienced a slight drop over the same period, reaching only 5.1 percent,” Anh said.

Dr. Le Xuan Sang, deputy director of the Vietnam Institute of Economics, suggested that Vietnam base its domestic oil production targets on global price trends and adjust accordingly.

Sang pointed out that Vietnamese enterprises are spending $40 to extract each barrel of oil, while in Saudi Arabia and Russia the cost to extract a barrel is a mere $8-12 and $13, respectively.

PVN’s efforts to reduce its cost of extraction have not been successful, Thap noted, as it would require advanced technology and enhanced administrative capability.

Anh stressed that Vietnam would need to shift its focus to economic reforms and improvement of the business environment, rather than on increased oil production, if it wants to seek sustainable growth.

Vietnam’s crude oil is mainly exported to China, which imports Vietnamese oil at a much lower price than other markets, according to statistics from the General Department of Vietnam Customs.

Japan, for example, pays VND9.8 million ($438) per metric ton of crude oil from Vietnam, VND400,000 ($18) higher than what China pays.

In the first three months of 2017, Vietnam exported 237,000 metric tons of crude oil to Japan, a 206.9-percent growth rate from the same period of 2016.

According to the Ministry of Finance, crude oil production and exports contributed VND11 trillion ($491 million) to the government budget in the first quarter of 2017, with an expectation to reach VND38.3 trillion ($1.71 billion) by the end of the year, a15.9-percent increase from 2016.

http://tuoitrenews.vn/business/40615/pvn-to-raise-oil-extraction-target-by-1mn-tons-in-2017


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## Banglar Bir

teleSUR English added a new video: US Devastating Legacy in Vietnam · 


What's the US legacy in Vietnam? 41 years later, people still suffer from the poisonous chemical weapons created by Monsanto that were dropped there.




__ https://www.facebook.com/





RT Documentary added a new video: Devastating consequences of the Vietnam War.



Abnormalities, chronic diseases and unexploded ordnance: Vietnam is still suffering the consequences of the war that ended in 1975.




__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> Can u tell us why a Spanish company support VN in this case ?? Normally, only Russia and India support VN against CN.



I really don't know the details of the situation. The Americans are also drilling near Danang. I don't know the details of the agreement between Vietnam and the Spanish company. Obviously it is profitable and worth it for them to do it. There are a few Spanish companies doing business in Vietnam, they build airports, infrastructure projects, etc.

I would say that the key here is that the Spanish government decided to support the Spanish oil company (government owned) and even that obviously Spain has a lot more trade and business dealings with China, still, they stood by Vietnam even that China can easily choose to retaliate as they did with South Korea and others, the chinese are usually very fast to do that. I can only think that Spain told them that if they choose to retaliate, they would have an issue not only with Spain, but with the whole European Union and at that point it gets very serious. It can still happen, I can't say that the issue is settled, we need more time to see what happens.

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## Barmaley

Signed contract for delivery of T-90S to Vietnam. The number is 64 tanks.
The delivery will beggins till the end of this year.

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> Signed contract for delivery of T-90S to Vietnam. The number is 64 tanks.
> The delivery will beggins till the end of this year.


Hey hey great stuff. Long live Russia 

You got any source to the purchase?


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## Aqsuperman

Barmaley said:


> Signed contract for delivery of T-90S to Vietnam. The number is 64 tanks.
> The delivery will beggins till the end of this year.



Lovely new indeed. But may you provide a source for this ? English or Russian would be fine.


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## Barmaley

Viet said:


> Hey hey great stuff. Long live Russia
> 
> You got any source to the purchase?





Aqsuperman said:


> Lovely new indeed. But may you provide a source for this ? English or Russian would be fine.



It is from anual report of UVZ corporation which is was published today.
Here is the link to the news where you can find links to anual report.

https://m.lenta.ru/news/2017/07/04/t90s/

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## Viet

BANGLAR BIR said:


> teleSUR English added a new video: US Devastating Legacy in Vietnam ·
> 
> 
> What's the US legacy in Vietnam? 41 years later, people still suffer from the poisonous chemical weapons created by Monsanto that were dropped there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RT Documentary added a new video: Devastating consequences of the Vietnam War.
> 
> 
> 
> Abnormalities, chronic diseases and unexploded ordnance: Vietnam is still suffering the consequences of the war that ended in 1975.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/


It will take another 50 years for VN to recover the wounds being inflicted during the Vietnam war.



Barmaley said:


> It is from anual report of UVZ corporation which is was published today.
> Here is the link to the news where you can find links to anual report.
> 
> https://m.lenta.ru/news/2017/07/04/t90s/


Interesting. But 64 tanks are too little. We need to build up huge modern tank armies of at least 1,000 pieces.

Here google translate


Russia sold T-90S tanks to Iraq and Vietnam. This reveals the final report 2016 published by Uralvagonzavod. The section on military-technical cooperation for 2017 indicates two contracts for the delivery of T-90S tanks. One of them, 64 tanks, is concluded with the foreign customer "704". The second one is concluded with the foreign customer "368". According to the All-Russian Classifier of the World (OCM), "704" is Vietnam, "368" is Iraq. In the same report, Uralvagonzavod says has completed the contract for the supply of 146 T-90MS tanks to Kuwait.

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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> Signed contract for delivery of T-90S to Vietnam. The number is 64 tanks.
> The delivery will beggins till the end of this year.



Great news, but I was hoping for the MS version, too bad.

@madokafc


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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> Signed contract for delivery of T-90S to Vietnam. The number is 64 tanks.
> The delivery will beggins till the end of this year.



Tovarish @Barmaley Do you think this is the very first order of T-90 tanks for Vietnam?

*Vietnam for greater Indian role in SE Asia*

*http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/vietnam-asks-india-to-play-security-role-in-south-china-sea/article19210720.ece*

Opening new possibilities in Southeast Asia, Vietnam on Tuesday asked India to play a greater role in ASEAN’s strategic and security affairs. Speaking at the Delhi Dialogue IX, a platform for discussion between ASEAN and India, Vietnamese Deputy Prime Minister Pham Binh Minh said that India should support freedom of navigation in the South China Sea on the basis of international law and conventions.

“ASEAN supports India to play a greater role in the political and security domain, and create a regional rule-based region. We hope India will continue to partner our efforts for strategic security and freedom of navigation in South China Sea on the basis of international law and legal convention,” said the visiting leader.

The Vietnamese leader who is on a two-day visit to Delhi, is also the Foreign Minister of his country and held talks with External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj. His comments in support of greater role for India in Southeast Asia came even as tension is building up between India and China across the Sikkim sector.

*Common interests
“India and Vietnam share political and economic interests. As the future unfolds we have reason to be optimistic. ASEAN will benefit from India’s experience of resolving maritime issues in a peaceful manner,” he said indicating at the dispute with China in the South China Sea region.

In her speech, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj said that ties with ASEAN is at the centre of India’s Act East Policy. “We place ASEAN at heart of our ‘Act East Policy’ and centre of our dream of an Asian century. ASEAN and India are natural partners,” Ms. Swaraj said.

Pham Binh Minh’s comments are also important as they come a day after senior BJP leader Ram Madhav hinted at China’s growing domination of Southeast Asia and asked Vietnam to partner India in resisting “21st century version of neo-colonialism.” Addressing a conference on India-Vietnam ties organised at the Teen Murty Bhavan, Mr Madhav said, “It is important for us to make sure that the 21st century version of the same colonialism does not return to haunt us and succeed. Geopolitics in the Indian Ocean region makes the possibility of neo-colonialism a reality with countries trying to dominate others through money, market and through military,” he said.

Besides the Indian and Vietnamese ministers, the ministerial session was participated by Gen. (Dr.) V.K. Singh, Minister of State for External Affairs; Mr. U Kyaw Tint Swe, Union Minister, Ministry of the Office of the State Counsellor, Myanmar and Mr. Hirubalan V P, Deputy Secretary-General for ASEAN Political-Security Community Department, ASEAN Secretariat.

The Delhi Dialogue IX marks the beginning of the celebrations to mark the 25th anniversary of India-ASEAN diplomatic ties. The Vietnamese leader also indicated that a special India-ASEAN summit will be held in 2018.*

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## Barmaley

Carlosa said:


> Tovarish @Barmaley Do you think this is the very first order of T-90 tanks for Vietnam?



Thats depend from Vietnam and its millitary budget and the priorities in construction of national defence.

If the numbers in wiki right the VN army operating currently around 1000 tanks (T-54, T-55, T-62) and consider this number as optimal to cover defence needs. But i think actuall number of tanks in service is a bit less.

Anyway, thats means Vietnam needs much more modern tanks and 64 tanks isnt enought to cover the needs.

So yeah, its propably first contract and there will be anothers ones signed in near future, but on others terms.

In my opinion Vietnam need at least 500-600 modern MBT and also a big number of modern IFV and APC.

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## Viet

*Today in the news*

Since we are talking of Spanish, the language comes as second most spoken language after English in the United States. That is not surprising due to huge Latin American population. But what is the third most spoken language?

It is surprisingly Vietnamese. That is the finding of US census 2015. Vietnamese has surpassed Chinese and Taralog (a language of the Philippines) to become the third popular spoken language in America on the US State level. Remarkable because the number of Vietnamese is much lower than the Chinese and Filipino.

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> Thats depend from Vietnam and its millitary budget and the priorities in construction of national defence.
> 
> If the numbers in wiki right the VN army operating currently around 1000 tanks (T-54, T-55, T-62) and consider this number as optimal to cover defence needs. But i think actuall number of tanks in service is a bit less.
> 
> Anyway, thats means Vietnam needs much more modern tanks and 64 tanks isnt enought to cover the needs.
> 
> So yeah, its propably first contract and there will be anothers ones signed in near future, but on others terms.
> 
> In my opinion Vietnam need at least 500-600 modern MBT and also a big number of modern IFV and APC.


http://kienthuc.net.vn/quan-su/interfax-nga-se-chuyen-cho-viet-nam-64-xe-tang-t-90-896458.html







the article citing Interfax says VN acquires two T90 variants namely T90S and T90SK. 600 modern tanks sound ok, but if you consider the huge number of Chinese tanks and the enviroment for Vietnam is especially very bad: we have no natural barriers to China (unlike between India and China). Chinese tanks once breaking thru our northern defense lines, they could storm the lower land, the Red river delta very quick. that is evidenced in previous encounters when chinese armor troops advanced as far as Hanoi and beyond before we could have been able to launch counter offensives. In addition we must calculate potential attacks by chinese allies from the southern front (Cambodia) and the western front (Thailand). so from 600 tanks, the number would be reduced to half: 300, that would be deployed in the northern front.

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## Carlosa

frequency said:


> Carlosa, how do I get into a spain woman's heart?



A few tips for you:

http://www.mademan.com/mm/how-seduce-spanish-girl.html

https://masculineprofiles.com/seduce-sultry-spanish-girls-spain/

http://www.whygo.com/spain/how-to-impress-a-spanish-girl.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/rela...French-and-German-men-love-Spanish-women.html

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## gambit

Viet said:


> It will take another 50 years for VN to recover the wounds being inflicted during the Vietnam war.


No, it should *NOT*. JPN suffered far worse. You can cite how many tonnages of bombs dropped or Agent Orange use all day long and it will do you no good. The bottom line is that JPN was bombed nearly literally back to the Stone Age, including by nuclear weapons, their ways of life upended by foreigners and made submissive to foreign laws. And yet, JPN recovered and became a dominant power in Asia -- within that 50 yrs time span.

Now look at South Korea for another example and lesson.

The Vietnam War ended 42 yrs ago. Time to stop blaming the war for Viet Nam's problems of today. To make your arguments believable and at least persuasive, if not outright convincing, you must show how Viet Nam suffered the war in ways that JPN and SKR did not, and that the effects are inevitably long term.

You cannot and never will be able to make that argument.


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## TenLua

gambit said:


> No, it should *NOT*. JPN suffered far worse. You can cite how many tonnages of bombs dropped or Agent Orange use all day long and it will do you no good. The bottom line is that JPN was bombed nearly literally back to the Stone Age, including by nuclear weapons, their ways of life upended by foreigners and made submissive to foreign laws. And yet, JPN recovered and became a dominant power in Asia -- within that 50 yrs time span.
> 
> Now look at South Korea for another example and lesson.
> 
> The Vietnam War ended 42 yrs ago. Time to stop blaming the war for Viet Nam's problems of today. To make your arguments believable and at least persuasive, if not outright convincing, you must show how Viet Nam suffered the war in ways that JPN and SKR did not, and that the effects are inevitably long term.
> 
> You cannot and never will be able to make that argument.



Japan and those koreans were aided by the US because they lost. VN was sanctioned and embargoed by the west, or, most of the world. Until recently.

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## Carlosa

*T-90S Main Battle Tank, Russia*











The T-90S is the latest development in the T-series of Russian tanks and represents an increase in firepower, mobility and protection. It is manufactured by Uralvagonzavod in Nizhnyi Tagil, Russia.

The T-90S entered service with the Russian Army in 1992. In February 2001, the Indian Army signed a contract for 310 T-90S tanks: 124 were completed in Russia and the rest are being delivered in "knocked down" form for final assembly in India.

*T-90S armament*
The T-90S armament includes one 125mm 2A46M smoothbore gun, stabilised in two axes and fitted with a thermal sleeve. The gun tube can be replaced without dismantling inside the turret. The gun can fire a variety of ammunition including APDS (Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot), HEAT (high-explosive anti-tank), HE-FRAG (high-explosive fragmentation) as well as shrapnel projectiles with time fuses.

The T-90S gun can also fire the 9M119 Refleks (NATO designation AT-11 Sniper) anti-tank guided missile system. The range of the missile is 100m to 4,000m and takes 11.7 sec to reach maximum range. The system is intended to engage tanks fitted with ERA (explosive reactive armour) as well as low-flying air targets such as helicopters, at a range of up to 5km. The missile system fires either the 9M119 or 9M119M missiles which have semi-automatic laser beamriding guidance and a hollow charge warhead. Missile weight is 23.4kg. The guns automatic loader will feed both ordnance and missiles.

Also fitted is a coaxial 7.62mm PKT machine gun and a 12.7mm air defence machine gun. A 5.45mm AKS-74 assault rifle is carried on a storage rack.

*Self protection*
The T-90 tank is protected by both conventional armour-plating and explosive reactive armour.

The T-90 is fitted with the Shtora-1 defensive aids suite which is produced by Electronintorg of Russia. This system includes infrared jammer, laser warning system with four laser warning receivers, grenade discharging system which produces an aerosol screen and a computerised control system.

It is also fitted with NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) protection equipment.

*Fire control and observation*
"The T-90S has the 1A4GT integrated fire control system (IFCS) which is automatic but with manual override."
The T-90S has the 1A4GT integrated fire control system (IFCS) which is automatic but with manual override for the commander. The IFCS contains the gunner's 1A43 day fire control system, gunner's TO1-KO1 thermal imaging sight which has a target identification range of 1.2km to 1.5km and commander's PNK-S sight.

The gunner's 1A43 day FCS comprises: 1G46 day sight / rangefinder with missile guidance channel, 2E42-4 armament stabiliser, 1V528 ballistic computer and DVE-BS wind gauge.

The commander's PNK-4S sight includes a TKN-4S (Agat-S) day / night sight which has identification ranges of 800m (day) and 700m (night).

The driver is equipped with a TVN-5 infrared night viewer.

*Propulsion*
The T-90S has a liquid-cooled V-84MS 618kW (840hp) four-stroke V-12 piston engine. This engine can be fuelled by T-2 or TS-1 kerosene and A-72 benzine, in addition to diesel. The tank can carry up to 1,600 litres of fuel in the main fuel tanks and fuel drums. The fuel tanks are reinforced with armour plating.

The tank is provided with a snorkel for deep fording and can ford 5m of water with equipment which can be deployed in 20 minutes.

The mechanical transmission includes primary reduction gear, two planetary final gearboxes and two planetary final drives. The running gear features torsion bar suspension with hydraulic shock absorbers at one, two and six road wheel stations and tracks with rubber-metallic pin hinges.


*T-90SK Tank*

The T-90SK tank is designed to provide command and control over subordinate units, facilitate communications with superior commanders, and conduct operations as part of units and subunits.

This command tank is a derivative of the T-90S tank and is distinguished by an R-168-100KBE HF radio set, TNA-4-3 tank navigation equipment set and PAB-2M aiming circle.

Its basic specifications are on par with the baseline T-90S model. The command tank’s armament system, protection systems, power plant, transmission, running gear, vision devices, deep-water fording kit, self-entrenching equipment, and mine-clearing equipment mountings are similar to those of the T-90S MBT.

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## gambit

TenLua said:


> Japan and those koreans were aided by the US because they lost. VN was sanctioned and embargoed by the west, or, most of the world. Until recently.


Where were the Soviet Union and China ? Stop blaming sanctions and embargoes. Just because the West had sanctions and embargoes on post war Viet Nam, are you saying that the Soviet Union and China obeyed ? Let me guess, the Soviet Union and China assisted North Viet Nam during the war, then after the war and unification, both countries got scared by the US ? 

News for you -- JPN and SKR entered Viet Nam while those embargoes were in place. The embargoes were not lifted until President Clinton...

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/clinton-ends-trade-embargo-of-vietnam

JPN and SKR were already in Viet Nam long before 1994. Same for many European countries. Same for Canada.

Viet Nam got poor because of the misguided leadership -- Marxism.

When the US aided JPN and SKR, what system were used ?

When the Soviets and Chinese aided Viet Nam, what system were used ?

The results ? JPN and SKR became wealthy, educated, and worldly, while Viet Nam got mired in the economic and political muck. The fact that you tried to blame US assistance proved my point.

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## TenLua

Viva_Viet said:


> I think CN always can give more profit than VN to Spain. So, it should have another purpose.
> 
> -----------------
> News abt Oil drilling. Oil oil fields are running out of oil. New ones with support from US-Spain oil companies will help Vn to achieve the target
> 
> *PetroVietnam to raise oil extraction target by 1mn tons in 2017*
> 
> TUOI TRE NEWS
> 
> UPDATED : 04/20/2017 15:32 GMT + 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PrevNext
> *State-run oil and gas giant PetroVietnam (PVN) has announced plans to hike its yearly oil extraction by one million metric tons in 2017, following a government directive aimed at boosting the country’s economic growth.*
> 
> Critics of the plan assert that sustainable economic growth requires more attention to long-term solutions with more measurable effectiveness.
> 
> According to Nguyen Quoc Thap, vice-CEO of PVN, the group’s plans to increase their oil extraction targets this year coincide with plans to raise production across all of its drills.
> 
> However, Thap admitted that waning global oil prices could be an obstacle to reaching the ambitious target.
> 
> If the global oil prices plateau at their current rate of US$55 per barrel, coupled with PVN’s economic and technological preparations, the group could still meet its target, Thap said.
> 
> Despite raising their production targets, PVN’s 2017 goals still lag behind its 2016 production, he added.
> 
> The group extracted 3.46 million metric tons of oil and captured VND117 trillion ($5 billion) in revenue in the first quarter of this year, 5.5 percent and 18 percent above its respective targets.
> 
> PVN hopes to make an additional $375 million in revenue in 2017 with its added production, assuming oil prices stay above $50 per barrel.
> 
> Thap noted however that the group’s increased revenue does not necessarily mean a significantly bigger contribution to the public budget, though he refused to disclose a specific number.
> 
> *Sustainable solutions needed*
> 
> Dang Duc Anh, a senior analyst at the National Center for Socio-Economic Information and Forecast (NCIF), believes that PVN’s increased extraction will not be much of a boost to Vietnam’s economic expansion.
> 
> According to NCIF estimates, one million additional metric tons of oil in PVN’s production would only lead to a 0.25 percent boost to the country’s economy.
> 
> “Despite PVN’s 5.5-percent over-performance in production during the first quarter of 2017, its growth rate experienced a slight drop over the same period, reaching only 5.1 percent,” Anh said.
> 
> Dr. Le Xuan Sang, deputy director of the Vietnam Institute of Economics, suggested that Vietnam base its domestic oil production targets on global price trends and adjust accordingly.
> 
> Sang pointed out that Vietnamese enterprises are spending $40 to extract each barrel of oil, while in Saudi Arabia and Russia the cost to extract a barrel is a mere $8-12 and $13, respectively.
> 
> PVN’s efforts to reduce its cost of extraction have not been successful, Thap noted, as it would require advanced technology and enhanced administrative capability.
> 
> Anh stressed that Vietnam would need to shift its focus to economic reforms and improvement of the business environment, rather than on increased oil production, if it wants to seek sustainable growth.
> 
> Vietnam’s crude oil is mainly exported to China, which imports Vietnamese oil at a much lower price than other markets, according to statistics from the General Department of Vietnam Customs.
> 
> Japan, for example, pays VND9.8 million ($438) per metric ton of crude oil from Vietnam, VND400,000 ($18) higher than what China pays.
> 
> In the first three months of 2017, Vietnam exported 237,000 metric tons of crude oil to Japan, a 206.9-percent growth rate from the same period of 2016.
> 
> According to the Ministry of Finance, crude oil production and exports contributed VND11 trillion ($491 million) to the government budget in the first quarter of 2017, with an expectation to reach VND38.3 trillion ($1.71 billion) by the end of the year, a15.9-percent increase from 2016.
> 
> http://tuoitrenews.vn/business/40615/pvn-to-raise-oil-extraction-target-by-1mn-tons-in-2017



You asked why Spain support VN in this case. I said profit.

It is profitable for Spain to help VN in this case.



gambit said:


> Where were the Soviet Union and China ? Stop blaming sanctions and embargoes. Just because the West had sanctions and embargoes on post war Viet Nam, are you saying that the Soviet Union and China obeyed ? Let me guess, the Soviet Union and China assisted North Viet Nam during the war, then after the war and unification, both countries got scared by the US ?
> 
> News for you -- JPN and SKR entered Viet Nam while those embargoes were in place. The embargoes were not lifted until President Clinton...
> 
> http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/clinton-ends-trade-embargo-of-vietnam
> 
> JPN and SKR were already in Viet Nam long before 1994. Same for many European countries. Same for Canada.
> 
> Viet Nam got poor because of the misguided leadership -- Marxism.
> 
> When the US aided JPN and SKR, what system were used ?
> 
> When the Soviets and Chinese aided Viet Nam, what system were used ?
> 
> The results ? JPN and SKR became wealthy, educated, and worldly, while Viet Nam got mired in the economic and political muck. The fact that you tried to blame US assistance proved my point.



Soviet were a failing state and collapsed shortly after. China was a third world country then. I dont know how they might offer assistance.

Japan and korea had technology transfer from world powers when then. The defense of their nation was and still is guaranteed by the most powerful military in the world. Vietnam on the other hand were sanctioned to the point of famine. Fought against polpot snd china at her weakest point right after the war with the US.

Vietnamese leaders at the time, and, still is, in my opinion, are only good leaders during war time. When it came to economics, they were clueless. I guess it is a combination of war, geopolitics, and incompetence that held VN back.

I didn't blame anyone, I attributed the aid and technology transfer from the west to their success. This helped korea more so than Japan as Japan was an already highly technological state.

You obviously have something against VN.

Further, korea is the most obvious US puppet state anyone in the world can see. They are incapable of making any decisions on their own without US approval. Their government is nothing more than a pretend government =). They are a conquered people. Their children suffer from so much pressure to keep up with the jones that some kill themselves from said pressure. Are you korean? Lol

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## gambit

TenLua said:


> Soviet were a failing state and collapsed shortly after. China was a third world country then. I dont know how they might offer assistance.


Just because you do not know, that does not mean no such assistance occurred. Google is your friend. Use it and learn something new.



TenLua said:


> Vietnamese leaders at the time, and, still is, in my opinion, are only good leaders during war time. When it came to economics, they were clueless. I guess it is a combination of war, geopolitics, and incompetence that held VN back.


It was ideology. Nothing more. Their Marxist beliefs guided their actions on how to recover a unified Viet Nam and they failed.



TenLua said:


> I didn't blame anyone,...


Yes, you did. You tried to blame the US.



TenLua said:


> I attributed the aid and technology transfer from the west to their success. This helped korea more so than Japan as Japan was an already highly technological state.


This still proved my point.



TenLua said:


> You obviously have something against VN.


Yeah...Communism. Is that too difficult to understand ?



TenLua said:


> Further, korea is the most obvious US puppet state anyone in the world can see. They are incapable of making any decisions on their own without US approval. Their government is nothing more than a pretend government =). They are a conquered people. Their children suffer from so much pressure to keep up with the jones that some kill themselves from said pressure.


Casting slurs against South Korea is not going to help your argument. Between North Korea and South Korea, where would *YOU* want to live ? If you answer 'South', you just insulted your own intelligence.



TenLua said:


> Are you korean? Lol


No, I am Viet. I fled in 1975. Which put me as old enough to be your father. I also understand the Vietnam War better than anyone in this forum, including you.

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## TenLua

gambit said:


> Just because you do not know, that does not mean no such assistance occurred. Google is your friend. Use it and learn something new.
> 
> 
> It was ideology. Nothing more. Their Marxist beliefs guided their actions on how to recover a unified Viet Nam and they failed.
> 
> 
> Yes, you did. You tried to blame the US.
> 
> 
> This still proved my point.
> 
> 
> Yeah...Communism. Is that too difficult to understand ?
> 
> 
> Casting slurs against South Korea is not going to help your argument. Between North Korea and South Korea, where would *YOU* want to live ? If you answer 'South', you just insulted your own intelligence.
> 
> 
> No, I am Viet. I fled in 1975. Which put me as old enough to be your father. I also understand the Vietnam War better than anyone in this forum, including you.



We lost. Get over it.

NK would steam roll SK without the US. SK is nothing without the US.

Crediting the US for bringing SK to the first world is not blaming. You need to check your reading comprehension.

My father fought for the south. Got shredded by bullets. Grenades tore his insides out. Mine ripped off half his legs laterally. He still have fragments in him. He went back into combat after every wound, even when they had to saw an inch off his right leg. Snd you know what he thinks? He thinks the south deserve to lose. The south werent motivated fighters. Instead of focusing on winning a war, the south worried more about chasing girls and drinking.

What did you do to help save south Vietnam? Chasing girls while your brothers gave their life?

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## gambit

TenLua said:


> We lost. Get over it.


You strikes me as someone who is intellectually lazy despite all the tools that are available for you to use.

Once unified and the US was out, Viet Nam's fate is no one's but her own, particularly of her leadership who was corrupt and incompetent. What make or break a country is economics -- first and foremost -- and that was where Viet Nam failed.



TenLua said:


> Crediting the US for bringing SK to the first world is not blaming. You need to check your reading comprehension.


You did more than just crediting the US for SKR's and JPN's successes. You tried to explained Viet Nam's economic failure on sanctions and embargoes. You got brainwashed, friend.

Viet Nam was unified in 1975. At that time, the Soviet Union still exists and have been sending economic aid to any country that would accept Soviet influence. Ever heard of Cuba ? So yes, you tried to blame the US.



TenLua said:


> My father fought for the south. Got shredded by bullets. Grenades tore his insides out. Mine ripped off half his legs laterally. He still have fragments in him. He went back into combat after every wound, even when they had to saw an inch off his right leg. Snd you know what he thinks? He thinks the south deserve to lose. The south werent motivated fighters. Instead of focusing on winning a war, the south worried more about chasing girls and drinking.
> 
> What did you do to help save south Vietnam? Chasing girls while your brothers gave their life?


What does this have to do with (unified) Viet Nam's failure for the past 40 yrs ?


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## Viva_Viet

gambit said:


> What does this have to do with (unified) Viet Nam's failure for the past 40 yrs ?


Same story again and again ... go out, do something useful for your sorry life. Dont just keep rechewing grass like cow, old man

Old dog just can not learn new tricks 



Carlosa said:


> I really don't know the details of the situation. The Americans are also drilling near Danang. I don't know the details of the agreement between Vietnam and the Spanish company. Obviously it is profitable and worth it for them to do it. There are a few Spanish companies doing business in Vietnam, they build airports, infrastructure projects, etc.
> 
> I would say that the key here is that the Spanish government decided to support the Spanish oil company (government owned) and even that obviously Spain has a lot more trade and business dealings with China, still, they stood by Vietnam even that China can easily choose to retaliate as they did with South Korea and others, the chinese are usually very fast to do that. I can only think that Spain told them that if they choose to retaliate, they would have an issue not only with Spain, but with the whole European Union and at that point it gets very serious. It can still happen, I can't say that the issue is settled, we need more time to see what happens.


Yep, seem like a so called "Cnese 9 dash lines " in a crucial position like East VN sea (SCS)make CN become the enemy of the world. Remain free navigation there is the only choice for all.


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## Viet

gambit said:


> No, it should *NOT*. JPN suffered far worse. You can cite how many tonnages of bombs dropped or Agent Orange use all day long and it will do you no good. The bottom line is that JPN was bombed nearly literally back to the Stone Age, including by nuclear weapons, their ways of life upended by foreigners and made submissive to foreign laws. And yet, JPN recovered and became a dominant power in Asia -- within that 50 yrs time span.
> 
> Now look at South Korea for another example and lesson.
> 
> The Vietnam War ended 42 yrs ago. Time to stop blaming the war for Viet Nam's problems of today. To make your arguments believable and at least persuasive, if not outright convincing, you must show how Viet Nam suffered the war in ways that JPN and SKR did not, and that the effects are inevitably long term.
> 
> You cannot and never will be able to make that argument.


Bro you missed several things. JP went thru the period of industrial revolution while VN not. The French did nothing in building just looting the resources. JP was bombed and nuked but VN with Laos and Cambodia received more bombs than the entire Europea in WW II, surpassing JP in terms of nuclear explosions. JP recovering was quick after the war because she has the economic foundation. VN not.

VN was completely destroyed but was held back for another two decades by a combination of western sanction, three front war of aggression by China, Cambodia and Thailand, failed economic policies and last but not least lots of Vietnamese were fleeing the country.

SK is another story. I once said something here about the kimchi folks.

The rise of Japan after the defeat was assisted by the United States, similar the rise of Germany. They received tons of money and technology.

What do you think why both countries today are the most loyal US allies despite they were enemies fighting the Americans to the bitter end? The relationship between VN and CN could take the same path if the Chinese haven't gone back to the centuries old traditional path of destruction policy toward Vietnam.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Bro you missed several things. JP went thru the period of industrial revolution while VN not. The French did nothing in building just looting the resources. JP was bombed and nuked but VN with Laos and Cambodia received more bombs than the entire Europea in WW II, surpassing JP in terms of nuclear explosions. JP recovering was quick after the war because she has the economic foundation. VN not.
> 
> VN was completely destroyed but was held back for another two decades by a combination of western sanction, three front war of aggression by China, Cambodia and Thailand, failed economic policies and last but not least lots of Vietnamese were fleeing the country.
> 
> SK is another story. I once said something here about the kimchi folks.
> 
> The rise of Japan after the defeat was assisted by the United States, similar the rise of Germany. They received tons of money and technology.


Its just like the wounded dogs recover faster thanks to their bosses when the wounded wolf facing with the risk of starvation, hunters etc will recover much slower....

But dogs have No freedom like wolf


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## TenLua

gambit said:


> You strikes me as someone who is intellectually lazy despite all the tools that are available for you to use.
> 
> Once unified and the US was out, Viet Nam's fate is no one's but her own, particularly of her leadership who was corrupt and incompetent. What make or break a country is economics -- first and foremost -- and that was where Viet Nam failed.
> 
> 
> You did more than just crediting the US for SKR's and JPN's successes. You tried to explained Viet Nam's economic failure on sanctions and embargoes. You got brainwashed, friend.
> 
> Viet Nam was unified in 1975. At that time, the Soviet Union still exists and have been sending economic aid to any country that would accept Soviet influence. Ever heard of Cuba ? So yes, you tried to blame the US.
> 
> 
> What does this have to do with (unified) Viet Nam's failure for the past 40 yrs ?



You're just too blinded by your bitterness and ignorance to accept a clear fact.

It is in fact the result of global sanction and embargoes. Just look at Venezuela as we speak. I understand that you are a self loathing coward who avoided the war and now now speak as if you are entitled to your opinion. You are not. You do not know more about the war and the aftermath than anybody. Your opinion is that of a cowardice individual who is bitter because someone else didnt win the war for them.

You brought up about how you fled in 1975, and how you know more about the war than anybody on earth. I brought up my father who was fighting in the war itself while you cower in fear. He knows more about the war than anybody who was cowering under a table with their eyes close, like yourself.

You, gambit, are a worthless individual who will never fight for what he believes but will always blame others for your failings. You read a few bias pieces of history through the eyes of the loser and you consider yourself a historian. You fail to support your premise with facts, instead you cited wiki. If you have ever taken a college level english course, you should know that wikipedia is a unreliable source that anyone can edit. You're just an uneducated old man full of bitterness and contempt for his own failings.

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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> You're just too blinded by your bitterness and ignorance to accept a clear fact.
> 
> It is in fact the result of global sanction and embargoes. Just look at Venezuela as we speak. I understand that you are a self loathing coward who avoided the war and now now speak as if you are entitled to your opinion. You are not. You do not know more about the war and the aftermath than anybody. Your opinion is that of a cowardice individual who is bitter because someone else didnt win the war for them.
> 
> You brought up about how you fled in 1975, and how you know more about the war than anybody on earth. I brought up my father who was fighting in the war itself while you cower in fear. He knows more about the war than anybody who was cowering under a table with their eyes close, like yourself.
> 
> You, gambit, are a worthless individual who will never fight for what he believes but will always blame others for your failings. You read a few bias pieces of history through the eyes of the loser and you consider yourself a historian. You fail to support your premise with facts, instead you cited wiki. If you have ever taken a college level english course, you should know that wikipedia is a unreliable source that anyone can edit. You're just an uneducated old man full of bitterness and contempt for his own failings.


He loves to live like dogs wt "protection" from boss instead of living like a gaunt wolf like other Vnese.

VN have the right to enrich uranium. Wt nuclear tech support from Russia-India-North Korea, we are strong enough to defend our lands while countries like SK-JP-German etc must beg for US's protection for the rest of their lives cos daddy US dont let them to enrich uranium like VN


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> We lost. Get over it.
> 
> NK would steam roll SK without the US. SK is nothing without the US.
> 
> Crediting the US for bringing SK to the first world is not blaming. You need to check your reading comprehension.
> 
> My father fought for the south. Got shredded by bullets. Grenades tore his insides out. Mine ripped off half his legs laterally. He still have fragments in him. He went back into combat after every wound, even when they had to saw an inch off his right leg. Snd you know what he thinks? He thinks the south deserve to lose. The south werent motivated fighters. Instead of focusing on winning a war, the south worried more about chasing girls and drinking.
> 
> What did you do to help save south Vietnam? Chasing girls while your brothers gave their life?


Oha you are Vietnamese right? Your father fought on the side of republican army.


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam drills for oil in South China Sea*
By Bill Hayton BBC News

4 hours ago




Image copyright AFP
Image captionThe two countries had a tense stand-off in 2014 when China drilled for oil in disputed waters

Vietnam has begun drilling for oil in an area of the resource-rich South China Sea also claimed by China. An oil industry consultant told the BBC that a drilling ship on contract to international firm Talisman-Vietnam was working off Vietnam's south-east coast.

This appears to be why a senior Chinese general cut short an official visit to Vietnam last month.

China claims almost all of the South China Sea, including reefs and islands also contested by other nations.

According to Ian Cross, of Singapore-based Moyes & Co, the drillship Deepsea Metro I, began to drill in an area of sea about *400km* (250 miles) off the Vietnamese coast on 21 June.

It is likely that the news was kept secret because of its extreme sensitivity.





Other oil industry sources have told the BBC that Talisman-Vietnam was denied permission to drill over the past three years to avoid upsetting China.

It would appear that by taking such a bold move, the leadership in Hanoi is less concerned about such risks now.


Why is the South China Sea contentious?
Satellite photos 'show weapons' built on islands
The piece of seabed in question is known as Block 136-03 by Vietnam, but China calls it Wan-an Bei 21 and has leased out the same area to a different company. In 2014 the Chinese rights were bought by a Hong Kong-based company called Brightoil.

Two of the directors of Brightoil are senior members of the Chinese Communist Party.

Talisman-Vietnam was formerly owned by the Canadian company Talisman but since 2015 has been part of the *Spanish-owned Repsol group*.




Image copyrightAFP
Image captionVietnam and other neighbours contest China's territorial claims in the area


Gen Fan Changlong, who is Vice-Chair of China's Central Military Commission, recently paid a visit to Madrid, where Repsol is based. Repsol has not responded to BBC questions about whether the Chinese authorities have made any protest to the company.

In 2014 coastguard vessels and other ships belonging to China and Vietnam confronted each other in a different area of the South China Sea, further north near the Paracel Islands.

Since then the two countries have tried to avoid confrontation. However, Vietnam has clearly decided that the risks of a crisis are relatively low. So far the only casualty of Vietnam's new oil expedition has been a planned meeting of the annual Vietnam-China border defence friendship exchange.

That high-level meeting between the two countries' militaries was supposed to have taken place on the same day the Deepsea Metro I began drilling.

Instead, Gen Fan - who was due in Hanoi after his Madrid visit - flew home, citing problems with the "working arrangements".

Vietnam may have judged that with China currently promoting its "Belt and Road" initiative to the region and encouraging other countries to agree the new Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), at the same time as it is preparing for its crucial Communist Party congress, it would be unwilling to provoke a regional crisis.

There are no obvious signs of Chinese retaliation so far but we could see a tit-for-tat response with Beijing authorising a drilling operation in an area that Vietnam also claims. This, however, would take some time to organise.


----------



## frequency

Carlosa said:


> A few tips for you:
> 
> http://www.mademan.com/mm/how-seduce-spanish-girl.html
> 
> https://masculineprofiles.com/seduce-sultry-spanish-girls-spain/
> 
> http://www.whygo.com/spain/how-to-impress-a-spanish-girl.html
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/rela...French-and-German-men-love-Spanish-women.html
> 
> View attachment 408334



Damn, I think I have no chance. I should start learning spanish.


----------



## TenLua

Viva_Viet said:


> He loves to live like dogs wt "protection" from boss instead of living like a gaunt wolf like other Vnese.
> 
> VN have the right to enrich uranium. Wt nuclear tech support from Russia-India-North Korea, we are strong enough to defend our lands while countries like SK-JP-German etc must beg for US's protection for the rest of their lives cos daddy US dont let them to enrich uranium like VN



I wouldnt go that far when it comes to Japan though. SK is a whole different story.



Viet said:


> Oha you are Vietnamese right? Your father fought on the side of republican army.



Yeh, he was ARVN.


----------



## frequency

gambit said:


> Where were the Soviet Union and China ? Stop blaming sanctions and embargoes. Just because the West had sanctions and embargoes on post war Viet Nam, are you saying that the Soviet Union and China obeyed ? Let me guess, the Soviet Union and China assisted North Viet Nam during the war, then after the war and unification, both countries got scared by the US ?
> 
> News for you -- JPN and SKR entered Viet Nam while those embargoes were in place. The embargoes were not lifted until President Clinton...
> 
> http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/clinton-ends-trade-embargo-of-vietnam
> 
> JPN and SKR were already in Viet Nam long before 1994. Same for many European countries. Same for Canada.
> 
> Viet Nam got poor because of the misguided leadership -- Marxism.
> 
> When the US aided JPN and SKR, what system were used ?
> 
> When the Soviets and Chinese aided Viet Nam, what system were used ?
> 
> The results ? JPN and SKR became wealthy, educated, and worldly, while Viet Nam got mired in the economic and political muck. The fact that you tried to blame US assistance proved my point.



I would have to agree with Gambit on this one. Poor leadership.



TenLua said:


> We lost. Get over it.
> 
> NK would steam roll SK without the US. SK is nothing without the US.
> 
> Crediting the US for bringing SK to the first world is not blaming. You need to check your reading comprehension.
> 
> My father fought for the south. Got shredded by bullets. Grenades tore his insides out. Mine ripped off half his legs laterally. He still have fragments in him. He went back into combat after every wound, even when they had to saw an inch off his right leg. Snd you know what he thinks? He thinks the south deserve to lose. The south werent motivated fighters. Instead of focusing on winning a war, the south worried more about chasing girls and drinking.
> 
> What did you do to help save south Vietnam? Chasing girls while your brothers gave their life?



I would agree on that note. The South Vietnam was weak and it had no purpose to win. North had a purpose, a real one. While South Vietnam was Thailand (a whore house).



Viet said:


> Bro you missed several things.* JP went thru the period of industrial revolution while VN not*. The French did nothing in building just looting the resources. JP was bombed and nuked but VN with Laos and Cambodia received more bombs than the entire Europea in WW II, surpassing JP in terms of nuclear explosions. JP recovering was quick after the war because she has the economic foundation. VN not.
> 
> VN was completely destroyed but was held back for another two decades by a combination of western sanction, three front war of aggression by China, Cambodia and Thailand, failed economic policies and last but not least lots of Vietnamese were fleeing the country.
> 
> SK is another story. I once said something here about the kimchi folks.
> 
> The rise of Japan after the defeat was assisted by the United States, similar the rise of Germany. They received tons of money and technology.
> 
> What do you think why both countries today are the most loyal US allies despite they were enemies fighting the Americans to the bitter end? The relationship between VN and CN could take the same path if the Chinese haven't gone back to the centuries old traditional path of destruction policy toward Vietnam.



I think that is what Gambit was trying to say. Bottom line is Vietnam doesn't have the right tools and minds to enables Vietnam to industrialized. However, the possibilities are still there. It needs to promote Higher Education, Engineering and Science.

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## frequency

TenLua said:


> You're just too blinded by your bitterness and ignorance to accept a clear fact.
> 
> It is in fact the result of global sanction and embargoes. Just look at Venezuela as we speak. I understand that you are a self loathing coward who avoided the war and now now speak as if you are entitled to your opinion. You are not. You do not know more about the war and the aftermath than anybody. Your opinion is that of a cowardice individual who is bitter because someone else didnt win the war for them.
> 
> You brought up about how you fled in 1975, and how you know more about the war than anybody on earth. I brought up my father who was fighting in the war itself while you cower in fear. He knows more about the war than anybody who was cowering under a table with their eyes close, like yourself.
> 
> You, gambit, are a worthless individual who will never fight for what he believes but will always blame others for your failings. You read a few bias pieces of history through the eyes of the loser and you consider yourself a historian. You fail to support your premise with facts, instead you cited wiki. If you have ever taken a college level english course, you should know that wikipedia is a unreliable source that anyone can edit. You're just an uneducated old man full of bitterness and contempt for his own failings.



Tenlue, I'm not putting this on you but allow me to give this as an example.

Let's not hate and name calling. Genghis Khan used to say "One arrow alone can be easily broken but many arrows can be indestructible". Let's learn from each other and work together guys. This is how Vietnam is divided today. People have different mindsets and mentality. We judge people based on opinions alone is very short sighted. Vietnamese people are tensed. Always tensed and rarely in an easy state this is because life is tough for an average Vietnamese person.

We need to put our self interests aside and work together to share ideas and knowledge. Let's not try to be "I'm better than you or vice versa" or "I'm right and you're wrong". We all have rights and wrongs. We are humans and nobody is expected to be perfect anyway. We all have flaws. If you are able to forget and forgive, you can go much farther in life. We tend to blame each others for our own problems but the real problem is being able to control ourselves from doing such things.

Here's a saying.
“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
― Ernest Hemingway

“A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”
― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

“Those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.”
― George Bernard Shaw

The other problems our Vietnamese people lost are our great leaders. Leaders who aren't selfish, greedy, they put people first before them. Those are the kind of leaders we need to look up to and to learn from.

Gambit has a point. Political systems or structures can hinders a country's economic growths. GDP is a measure of a country's productivity. Production depends on labor and robotics. Pure physical labor is no where as effective as robotics and automation. Regardless of what Vietnam's economy is doing today but if it doesn't have the fundamental structures then in the future, it could fail because Vietnam needs Foundry mills, Machine shops, Fabricators, Engineers, Scientists, Research and Development centers, Higher education, High skill trades. Without these things, we don't have the people to run sophisticated machinery and equipment.

Americans know Vietnam's weakness and they sent Obama to talk about it. But the real question is, did the Vietnamese people listen or even know what he was trying to say? That is the important part of the equation. The speaker can give all the best advice but it is ALWAYS the RECEIVER's responsibility to understand it before he/she takes action. This is very tricky because Vietnam doesn't have many educated people or people of that knowledge and experience to teach it back to younger generations and so on and so forth.

A lot of Vietnamese are capable but they weren't LEAD to the right direction for the country to grow in the right direction. Because our leaders don't know it and experience it before. This is completely new to them and they are walking in the dark with everyone else. This is why Vietnam is growing but not growing as Gambit would anticipated it.

Gambit is bad at explaining things in detail but I am willing to type it out for us to understand his point of view. And that was about 20% of what he is trying to say anyway. I'm pretty sure there is more to it than this. But this is my summary of what is going on.

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## gambit

TenLua said:


> You're just too blinded by your bitterness and ignorance to accept a clear fact.
> 
> It is in fact the result of global sanction and embargoes.


Then what were the Soviets and Chinese doing in Viet Nam after the war ?



TenLua said:


> I understand that you are a self loathing coward who avoided the war and now now speak as if you are entitled to your opinion.


Avoided the war ? I was 12 yrs old. You are making unfounded assumptions of me based upon your failure to support your arguments.



TenLua said:


> You brought up about how you fled in 1975, and how you know more about the war than anybody on earth.


Yeah...Because you asked if I was Korean. I brought up SKR and JPN as examples of how Vietnamese cannot blame the US. You made my origin an issue.



TenLua said:


> You, gambit, are a worthless individual who will never fight for what he believes but will always blame others for your failings.


And what have you done for your beliefs, if you have any ? I am a USAF veteran. F-111 in the Cold War in the UK, then F-16 in Desert Storm. I would say I have done more for my beliefs than you will *EVER* do for yours. Me worthless ? Go look in the mirror.



TenLua said:


> You read a few bias pieces of history through the eyes of the loser and you consider yourself a historian. You fail to support your premise with facts, instead you cited wiki.


Can you disprove the fact that the Soviet Union sent aid to Viet Nam after the war ?

Can you disprove the fact that SKR and JPN entered Viet Nam despite US sanctions and embargoes ?

Can you disprove the fact that many European countries defied US sanctions and embargoes and did business with Viet Nam ?

For example...

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/vietnam/bilateral_relations_bilaterales/index.aspx?lang=eng


> Canada restored official development assistance to Vietnam in 1990...


President Clinton did not remove the embargoes until 1994.

Are you going to tell everyone that the Canadian government sources are editable by anyone ?



TenLua said:


> You're just an uneducated old man full of bitterness and contempt for his own failings.


And you are just another ignorant young pup who thinks he knows everything. Am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that you learned more from wiki than you let on.



frequency said:


> Gambit has a point. Political systems or structures can hinders a country's economic growths.


That is the *ONLY* point worth talking about. JPN is a resource poor country, and yet look at what they have done starting with the turn of the 20th century when they realized their backwardness compared to the Europeans. They changed their minds and that changed their country.

Blaming the US is nothing but a convenient scapegoat because the Viets on this forum is too cowardly to turn their critical gaze at their own government. It is funny -- that. They expect Americans to be critical of the US government, but when it comes to the Vietnamese government, they expect blind obedience.

There is Vietnamese phrase that the communist used for each other: " đồng chí "

It supposed to mean 'Comrade'. But the literal translation is 'same mind'. Perfect descriptor for the Viets on this forum.


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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> I wouldnt go that far when it comes to Japan though. SK is a whole different story.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeh, he was ARVN.


JP was just the pirate island in history, and nuclear testing field for daddy US now. Nothing special abt them.



gambit said:


> T
> 
> Can you disprove the fact that the Soviet Union sent aid to Viet Nam after the war ?
> 
> Can you disprove the fact that SKR and JPN entered Viet Nam despite US sanctions and embargoes ?
> 
> Can you disprove the fact that many European countries defied US sanctions and embargoes and did business with Viet Nam ?
> .


Yes, Soviet Union sent aid to Viet Nam after the war but we had to use that aid to defeat Pol Pot and protected Laos - new Cambodia govt. against Thailand- Pol Pot supported by CN-US-NATO. Do u know that your daddy US also supported Pol Pot to massacre your fellow Vnese ???

VN almost got nothing left from Soviet aid .


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## TenLua

gambit said:


> Then what were the Soviets and Chinese doing in Viet Nam after the war ?
> 
> 
> Avoided the war ? I was 12 yrs old. You are making unfounded assumptions of me based upon your failure to support your arguments.
> 
> 
> Yeah...Because you asked if I was Korean. I brought up SKR and JPN as examples of how Vietnamese cannot blame the US. You made my origin an issue.
> 
> 
> And what have you done for your beliefs, if you have any ? I am a USAF veteran. F-111 in the Cold War in the UK, then F-16 in Desert Storm. I would say I have done more for my beliefs than you will *EVER* do for yours. Me worthless ? Go look in the mirror.
> 
> 
> Can you disprove the fact that the Soviet Union sent aid to Viet Nam after the war ?
> 
> Can you disprove the fact that SKR and JPN entered Viet Nam despite US sanctions and embargoes ?
> 
> Can you disprove the fact that many European countries defied US sanctions and embargoes and did business with Viet Nam ?
> 
> For example...
> 
> http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/vietnam/bilateral_relations_bilaterales/index.aspx?lang=eng
> 
> President Clinton did not remove the embargoes until 1994.
> 
> Are you going to tell everyone that the Canadian government sources are editable by anyone ?
> 
> 
> And you are just another ignorant young pup who thinks he knows everything. Am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that you learned more from wiki than you let on.
> 
> 
> That is the *ONLY* point worth talking about. JPN is a resource poor country, and yet look at what they have done starting with the turn of the 20th century when they realized their backwardness compared to the Europeans. They changed their minds and that changed their country.
> 
> Blaming the US is nothing but a convenient scapegoat because the Viets on this forum is too cowardly to turn their critical gaze at their own government. It is funny -- that. They expect Americans to be critical of the US government, but when it comes to the Vietnamese government, they expect blind obedience.
> 
> There is Vietnamese phrase that the communist used for each other: " đồng chí "
> 
> It supposed to mean 'Comrade'. But the literal translation is 'same mind'. Perfect descriptor for the Viets on this forum.



Ok. You win.



frequency said:


> Tenlue, I'm not putting this on you but allow me to give this as an example.
> 
> Let's not hate and name calling. Genghis Khan used to say "One arrow alone can be easily broken but many arrows can be indestructible". Let's learn from each other and work together guys. This is how Vietnam is divided today. People have different mindsets and mentality. We judge people based on opinions alone is very short sighted. Vietnamese people are tensed. Always tensed and rarely in an easy state this is because life is tough for an average Vietnamese person.
> 
> We need to put our self interests aside and work together to share ideas and knowledge. Let's not try to be "I'm better than you or vice versa" or "I'm right and you're wrong". We all have rights and wrongs. We are humans and nobody is expected to be perfect anyway. We all have flaws. If you are able to forget and forgive, you can go much farther in life. We tend to blame each others for our own problems but the real problem is being able to control ourselves from doing such things.
> 
> Here's a saying.
> “There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
> ― Ernest Hemingway
> 
> “A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”
> ― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
> 
> “Those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.”
> ― George Bernard Shaw
> 
> The other problems our Vietnamese people lost are our great leaders. Leaders who aren't selfish, greedy, they put people first before them. Those are the kind of leaders we need to look up to and to learn from.
> 
> Gambit has a point. Political systems or structures can hinders a country's economic growths. GDP is a measure of a country's productivity. Production depends on labor and robotics. Pure physical labor is no where as effective as robotics and automation. Regardless of what Vietnam's economy is doing today but if it doesn't have the fundamental structures then in the future, it could fail because Vietnam needs Foundry mills, Machine shops, Fabricators, Engineers, Scientists, Research and Development centers, Higher education, High skill trades. Without these things, we don't have the people to run sophisticated machinery and equipment.
> 
> Americans know Vietnam's weakness and they sent Obama to talk about it. But the real question is, did the Vietnamese people listen or even know what he was trying to say? That is the important part of the equation. The speaker can give all the best advice but it is ALWAYS the RECEIVER's responsibility to understand it before he/she takes action. This is very tricky because Vietnam doesn't have many educated people or people of that knowledge and experience to teach it back to younger generations and so on and so forth.
> 
> A lot of Vietnamese are capable but they weren't LEAD to the right direction for the country to grow in the right direction. Because our leaders don't know it and experience it before. This is completely new to them and they are walking in the dark with everyone else. This is why Vietnam is growing but not growing as Gambit would anticipated it.
> 
> Gambit is bad at explaining things in detail but I am willing to type it out for us to understand his point of view. And that was about 20% of what he is trying to say anyway. I'm pretty sure there is more to it than this. But this is my summary of what is going on.



I agree. You have good valid points.

I'm too used to talking shit to hating indo and chinese members on here. I need to chill it with the trash talking.

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## gambit

Viva_Viet said:


> Yes, Soviet Union sent aid to Viet Nam after the war but we had to use that aid to defeat Pol Pot and protected Laos - new Cambodia govt. against Thailand- Pol Pot supported by CN-US-NATO.


That is nonsense and everybody know it.

Nothing is better than capitalism at generating wealth, even when the country is at war. Post war Vietnamese leadership continued to believe in the failed economic policies dictated by Marxism and *THAT* is/was the true cause of Viet Nam's economic failure.

Wise up.



TenLua said:


> Ok. You win.


I always do.

So after the lecture from you to me about arguing from facts, it turned out that *YOU* failed your own criticism.


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## Viet

frequency said:


> I would have to agree with Gambit on this one. Poor leadership.
> 
> I would agree on that note. The South Vietnam was weak and it had no purpose to win. North had a purpose, a real one. While South Vietnam was Thailand (a whore house).
> 
> 
> I think that is what Gambit was trying to say. Bottom line is Vietnam doesn't have the right tools and minds to enables Vietnam to industrialized. However, the possibilities are still there. It needs to promote Higher Education, Engineering and Science.


Given one is blessed of a bit of knowledge of history, every schoolkid knows VN was divided until 1975, and had not any private manufacturing until 1986. Comparing JP to VN lacks every basis. I am never a fan of socialism nor communism but Gambit view is biased.

Ok let's forget the past for a while, after years no after a century of chaos, I think VN today is on the right path. What we need is 10 more years to get industrialized and the army modernizated, in short 10 years more peace to focus on economy, everything else is secondary.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Hey hey great stuff. Long live Russia
> 
> You got any source to the purchase?


Why not MS?



gambit said:


> Yes, you did. You tried to blame the US.



Whats the problem in blaming US? US bombed the whole shit, and leave that. US bombed the Laos and Cambodia.

Does these countries were at state of war with US? Does US going to pay reparations to Cambodia and Laos for bombing those countries and violating there sovereignty?

Or US just somehow, by god's grace got this knowledge that these country's were third world and poor, so US was liable to violate and bomb these countries?
I am impressed by your hypocrisy, first you bomb people, and then say hey dont blame us.

Instead of becoming like holier than thou, you should say that US was serving there own interest in Vietnam like Soviet Union. And we bombed the whole shit because of our interests.

That should be better argument.

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## Viva_Viet

gambit said:


> That is nonsense and everybody know it.
> 
> Nothing is better than capitalism at generating wealth, even when the country is at war. Post war Vietnamese leadership continued to believe in the failed economic policies dictated by Marxism and *THAT* is/was the true cause of Viet Nam's economic failure.
> 
> Wise up.
> .


German,JP used capitalism at generating wealth before WW2 and still failed and become US's dogs till now. Without US's protection, those countries can be wiped out easily by Russia, NK.

Capitalism only benefit to US and help US exploit more money from vassal states and fund to terrorist group like Pol Pot , Taliban etc

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## Aqsuperman

"We crossed thousand of kilometers from the other side of the globe just to bombed the fck outta of you, funded every organization or movement that can hurt you but dont you dare blame us about anything". Fun conclusion indeed. 

So to go back to some relevant issues instead ideology, here is another assumption about the sudden return of the Chinese general, also relate to oil under the sea. 

*Vietnam drills for oil in South China Sea*

Vietnam has begun drilling for oil in an area of the resource-rich South China Sea also claimed by China.

An oil industry consultant told the BBC that a drilling ship on contract to international firm Talisman-Vietnam was working off Vietnam's south-east coast.

This appears to be why a senior Chinese general cut short an official visit to Vietnam last month.

China claims almost all of the South China Sea, including reefs and islands also contested by other nations.

According to Ian Cross, of Singapore-based Moyes & Co, the drillship Deepsea Metro I, began to drill in an area of sea about 400km (250 miles) off the Vietnamese coast on 21 June.

It is likely that the news was kept secret because of its extreme sensitivity.

Other oil industry sources have told the BBC that Talisman-Vietnam was denied permission to drill over the past three years to avoid upsetting China.

It would appear that by taking such a bold move, the leadership in Hanoi is less concerned about such risks now.

The piece of seabed in question is known as Block 136-03 by Vietnam, but China calls it Wan-an Bei 21 and has leased out the same area to a different company. In 2014 the Chinese rights were bought by a Hong Kong-based company called Brightoil.

Two of the directors of Brightoil are senior members of the Chinese Communist Party.

Talisman-Vietnam was formerly owned by the Canadian company Talisman but since 2015 has been part of the Spanish-owned Repsol group. 

Gen Fan Changlong, who is Vice-Chair of China's Central Military Commission, recently paid a visit to Madrid, where Repsol is based. Repsol has not responded to BBC questions about whether the Chinese authorities have made any protest to the company.

In 2014 coastguard vessels and other ships belonging to China and Vietnam confronted each other in a different area of the South China Sea, further north near the Paracel Islands.

Since then the two countries have tried to avoid confrontation. However, Vietnam has clearly decided that the risks of a crisis are relatively low.

So far the only casualty of Vietnam's new oil expedition has been a planned meeting of the annual Vietnam-China border defence friendship exchange.

That high-level meeting between the two countries' militaries was supposed to have taken place on the same day the Deepsea Metro I began drilling.

Instead, Gen Fan - who was due in Hanoi after his Madrid visit - flew home, citing problems with the "working arrangements".

Vietnam may have judged that with China currently promoting its "Belt and Road" initiative to the region and encouraging other countries to agree the new Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), at the same time as it is preparing for its crucial Communist Party congress, it would be unwilling to provoke a regional crisis.

There are no obvious signs of Chinese retaliation so far but we could see a tit-for-tat response with Beijing authorising a drilling operation in an area that Vietnam also claims. This, however, would take some time to organise.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Why not MS?
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the problem in blaming US? US bombed the whole shit, and leave that. US bombed the Laos and Cambodia.
> 
> Does these countries were at state of war with US? Does US going to pay reparations to Cambodia and Laos for bombing those countries and violating there sovereignty?
> 
> Or US just somehow, by god's grace got this knowledge that these country's were third world and poor, so US was liable to violate and bomb these countries?
> I am impressed by your hypocrisy, first you bomb people, and then say hey dont blame us.
> 
> Instead of becoming like holier than thou, you should say that US was serving there own interest in Vietnam like Soviet Union. And we bombed the whole shit because of our interests.
> 
> That should be better argument.


I have no clue why S and not MS. Maybe would be overkill or S is cheaper. Ah you know the weak gets thrashed while the strong laughs blaming the victim it is his way of life that kills him. Not everything else. Vietnam has gone thru a valley of blood and tears.

There is something gambit never learns.


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## Viet

*Navy starts drills with Vietnam days after sailing near disputed South China Sea island*




The USS Coronado arrived at Cam Ranh International Port, Vietnam, for a five-day exericise with the Vietnamese navy, Wednesday, July 5, 2017.


AMY RESSLER/U.S. NAVY
By TYLER HLAVAC | STARS AND STRIPES Published: July 5, 2017

The Navy has kicked off naval drills with Vietnam, just days after sending a guided-missile destroyer near a South China Sea islet claimed by China, Taiwan and Vietnam.

The *USS Coronado* and *USNS Salvor *steamed into Vietnam’s Cam Ranh International Port Wednesday for the annual five-day “Naval Engagement Activity,” which will include ship handling, medical evacuations and practicing the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea, a Navy statement said. Skill exchanges will cover shipboard damage control, shipboard medicine and law.

“The United States values our comprehensive partnership with Vietnam and we look forward to deepening our relationship and people-to-people ties through engagements like NEA,” Task Force 73 Commander Rear Adm. Don Gabrielson said in the statement.

Personnel from Task Force 73, Destroyer Squadron 7 and the 7th Fleet Band will also participate, the statement said.

“These naval activities underscore the deepening and diverse relationship between the United States and Vietnam,” U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius said in the statement. “Our security cooperation was an important discussion point during the recent meeting between President [Donald] Trump and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc.”

The exercise, which has been held annually since 2010, is being based for the first time at recently opened Cam Ranh International Port. Previous drills took place more than 300 miles north in Da Nang.

During a 2012 visit to Cam Ranh Bay, then-Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta called Navy access to the port “a key component” of the U.S.-Vietnam relationship, according to The Diplomat.

The exercise begins just days after the guided-missile destroyer USS Stethem on Sunday sailed within 12 nautical miles of Triton, a South China Sea island in the Paracels chain claimed by China, Vietnam and Taiwan. A Chinese official called the operation “provocative” and said such actions “violate China's sovereignty and threaten China's security.”

A Navy official told Bloomberg the warship was passing through those waters on the basis of innocent passage.

_hlavac.tyler@stripes.com_

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## Viet

USS Coronado

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## Viet

USNS Salvor, USS Coranado seen in the Bay

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## DarkMoon198

Viet said:


> Given one is blessed of a bit of knowledge of history, every schoolkid knows VN was divided until 1975, and had not any private manufacturing until 1986. Comparing JP to VN lacks every basis. I am never a fan of socialism nor communism but Gambit view is biased.
> 
> Ok let's forget the past for a while, after years no after a century of chaos, I think VN today is on the right path. What we need is 10 more years to get industrialized and the army modernizated, in short 10 years more peace to focus on economy, everything else is secondary.



Vietnam under France don't have any industry, most just related to extraction of resource, France didn't build any infrastructure that can help to build up industry while Japan did build industry in Korea as well as provide them with higher education while France just block education opportunity to mostly Catholic follower. Take into account 8 million bomb drop in Second Indochina War as well as lack of higher quality education institution , this can partly explain the situation of why government find it difficult to build up industry.

This documentary by German director Marc Eberle state quite clearly what happen in Indochina under France in 20th century . In German it is "In fremden Diensten: Deutsche Legionäre im Indochinakrieg"

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Why not MS?



That's also what I was wondering, the MS version is definitely the best tank in the world outside of Armata which has not entered service yet.


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## frequency

Viet said:


> I have no clue why S and not MS. Maybe would be overkill or S is cheaper. Ah you know the weak gets thrashed while the strong laughs blaming the victim it is his way of life that kills him. Not everything else. Vietnam has gone thru a valley of blood and tears.
> 
> There is something gambit never learns.



I think it has to do with his age and the fact that he escaped Vietnam in 1975. It was life and death to him and probably a lot of sacrifices. He has no other choice but to find US as his new home. I don't blame him for it nor the people who still has hate against Communist North. I understand where Gambit is coming from. I don't blame him at all. After all, we all have unique experiences.

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## Carlosa

frequency said:


> I think it has to do with his age and the fact that he escaped Vietnam in 1975. It was life and death to him and probably a lot of sacrifices. He has no other choice but to find US as his new home. I don't blame him for it nor the people who still has hate against Communist North. I understand where Gambit is coming from. I don't blame him at all. After all, we all have unique experiences.



Gambit lost a lot of family members in the war, so his views and feelings are heavily ingrained.

He also lost family members after the war, in the re-education camps if I remember correctly, so he has strong feeling about the regime. Its easy to understand.

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## Carlosa

*US, Vietnam Kick Off First Naval Engagement Activity in Trump Era*
Washington and Hanoi begin the 8th iteration of their NEA in the latest sign of a deepening defense relationship.






By Prashanth Parameswaran
July 06, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/us-vietnam-kick-off-first-naval-engagement-activity-in-trump-era/






On July 5, the United States and Vietnam kicked of the eighth iteration of their annual naval engagement in just the latest sign of their ongoing defense ties.

As I have noted before, over the past two decades or so, U.S.-Vietnam defense ties have been slowly strengthening as part of a broader process of normalization since the Vietnam War. The relationship now includes exchanges, exercises, and capacity-building in the maritime security domain with Vietnam’s coast guard (VCG) as Hanoi continues to contend with Beijing’s assertiveness in the South China Sea (See: “US-Vietnam Defense Relations: Problems and Prospects”).

This upward trajectory on defense ties has continued on even after Donald Trump took office in January, with Washington already handing over six 45-foot American Metal Shark patrol boats and a _Hamilton_-class coast guard cutter ahead of Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc’s meeting with Trump in June (See: “US Gives Vietnam Coast Guard A Boost Ahead of Premier’s Visit”). Interactions, including port visits, have continued, and both sides are mulling additional further steps as well with Vietnam’s defense minister expected to visit Washington soon.

On Wednesday, the United States kicked off the eighth iteration of its Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) with Vietnam. As I have noted previously, though the United States traditionally refers to its naval interactions with Southeast Asian states such as the Southeast Asia Cooperation and Training (SEACAT) and the Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) as exercises, those with Vietnam continue to be referred to on their own as a Naval Engagement Activity (NEA).

NEA Vietnam has evolved over the years from mere port visits to multi-day bilateral naval engagements ashore and at sea, with a number of firsts in recent iterations, including the participation of the U.S. littoral combat ship (LCS) last year for the first time as well as other expansions within the at-sea phase (See: “US, Vietnam Boost Naval Cooperation With NEA 2016”).

On Wednesday, the eighth annual NEA with Vietnam began with the arrival of the USS _Coronado_ (LCS 4) and the USNS _Salvor _(T-ARS-52) at Cam Ranh International Port, which Vietnam had unveiled for foreign warships last March (See: “Vietnam Unveils Port Facility For Foreign Warships in Cam Ranh Bay”).

This year’s NEA, a five-day engagement, will focus on events and skills exchanges in diving and salvage and undersea medicine, according to Task Force 73, the task force of the U.S. Navy that helps oversee the planning and execution of the CARAT exercises. It will consist of a brief at-sea phase to allow ships to practice the Code of Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES), ship handling, and medical evacuations; subject matter exchanges ashore emphasizing areas like shipboard damage control, shipboard medicine, and law; and formal office calls, band concerts, community relations events, and team sports.

Apart from the _Coronado_ and the _Salvor,_ personnel from Task Force 73, Destroyer Squadron 7, and the U.S. 7th Fleet Band, will also participate. This is the first time that an NEA is being held at Khanh Hoa Province since it was first established in 2010; previous NEAs had been held in Danang.

“These naval activities underscore the deepening and diverse relationship between the United States and Vietnam,” U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Ted Osius noted of NEA Vietnam. “Our security cooperation was an important discussion point during the recent meeting between President Trump and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc,” he added.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's also what I was wondering, the MS version is definitely the best tank in the world outside of Armata which has not entered service yet.


What is the major difference between S and MS?



DarkMoon198 said:


> Vietnam under France don't have any industry, most just related to extraction of resource, France didn't build any infrastructure that can help to build up industry while Japan did build industry in Korea as well as provide them with higher education while France just block education opportunity to mostly Catholic follower. Take into account 8 million bomb drop in Second Indochina War as well as lack of higher quality education institution , this can partly explain the situation of why government find it difficult to build up industry.
> 
> This documentary by German director Marc Eberle state quite clearly what happen in Indochina under France in 20th century . In German it is "In fremden Diensten: Deutsche Legionäre im Indochinakrieg"


The main aim of the French was to loot Vietnam nothing else. The railways, roads, bridges every infrastructure were built to serve the purpose. When the last French soldier left, they left behind Vietnam as a poor agrarian country close to famine with no industry nor manufacturing base.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> What is the major difference between S and MS.



Many things, best tank gun in the world (same gun as in Armata tank) can shoot at a longer range than any other tank, better fire control system, better APS and passive protection, better armor, bigger engine, etc. Here is a good video about that:






*Why T-90MS Tagil is not just upgraded tank for Indian Army*
September 13, 2015

http://idrw.org/why-t-90ms-tagil-is-not-just-upgraded-tank-for-indian-army/

SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK (INN)

According to reports prepared by Russian media, India and Russia are exploring possible supply of new T-90MS battle tanks. T-90MS also referred as Tagil, was first unveiled in 2011 was offered to India soon after.

India at present locally manufactures older T-90S tanks and already operates more than 1000 T-90 tanks in its current fleet. new T-90MS which India plans to procure is for China front as per Indian media reports.

It will be wrong to term T-90MS a modernised variant of T-90S says Defence analyst close to idrw.org. T-90MS improves vastly upon on Crew survivability, offensive capabilities and also comes with much more powerfull engines while still carrying ammunition compatibility with older T-90S tanks.

T-90MS design has some of the quite radical improvements compared to its predecessors T-90S, MS has improved Crew protection and has improved Survivability of the tank with the introduction of new Relikt ERA which replaces Kontakt-5 ERA which improves protection against tandem warheads and reduces penetration of APFSDS rounds by over 50%.

Relikt ERA is also capable of defeating even the most modern versions of the SABOT ammo based on depleted uranium. According to Russian Experts, Relikt ERA can take double the hits from RPG and other anti-tanks weapons then older Kontakt-5 ERA ensuring better survivability of the tank in a heavy war zone.

T-90MS with new Kalina fire control system along with a new 125-mm high-accuracy smoothbore gun also has improved range over its predecessors and accuracy to will see 15-20 improvement in the new tank and improved ability to tackle low flying helicopters.

T-90MS also comes with new powerful V-92S2F diesel engine with 1130 HP which also improves overhaul tank speed by 10-15 mph with improved suspension.






Here is an excellent video with a lot of detail information, the best one I think. English with Vietnamese subtitles:

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam needs to defends its honour in South China Sea*
By NDT Vietnam Bureau on July 3, 2017 

http://www.newdelhitimes.com/vietna...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer





By NDT Vietnam Bureau

*South China Sea region has become a theatre of regional conflict in South East Asia. *The South China Sea has alternated between periods of relative quiet and heightened tension since the late 1980s. In June 2017, as the anniversary of a 2016 international arbitration tribunal ruling against China approached, rivalry over hydrocarbon resources appeared to have been renewed.

On 18 June, Chinese deputy minister of defence Fan Changlong cut short a visit to Hanoi. Although no official reason was given, sources in Hanoi indicated that Fan had left after Vietnamese rejection of a Chinese demand to abandon preparations to drill for oil and gas in areas within China’s _vaguely defined_ ‘U-shaped line’.

In the current circumstances, the leadership in Beijing has a number of reasons to seek to avoid conflict with Southeast Asian countries, not least the desire to promote its ‘Belt and Road’ infrastructure initiative. However, the main claimants to the rocks and reefs of the sea continue to build up their maritime forces and to consolidate their positions on the disputed features in the expectation of further trouble. Whereas the Southeast Asian claimants (Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam) have, in effect, conceded that they will not attempt to evict others from the features that they occupy, China’s actions and rhetoric suggest that it intends to bring under its control every feature within its ‘U-shaped line’ claim in the sea.

Some Chinese state agencies also appear to have asserted ‘historic rights’ to all the fish and hydrocarbon resources within the line and to control navigation. These claims have however been ruled incompatible with the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea by the 2016 arbitration tribunal ruling. Despite this, Chinese state agencies have continued to violate the ruling through various means. 

*Tensions began to escalate in the South China Sea when *the People’s Republic of China (PRC) embarked upon the creation of its first base in the Spratlys, at Fiery Cross Reef, in late 1987. In 1988, it occupied five more features: Cuarteron Reef, Gaven Reef, Hughes Reef, Johnson South Reef, and Subi Reef. On one, Johnson South Reef, a confrontation the same year between China and Vietnam resulted in the deaths of 64 Vietnamese marines. China then occupied Mischief Reef, 240 km from the Philippine island of Palawan, in late 1994. In April 2012, it also placed a blockade around the Scarborough Shoal, 230 km from Luzon, but as of June 2017 it had not built any structures upon it.

The most significant development in the South China Sea since then has been China’s expansion of the seven reefs it controls in the Spratly Islands. Satellite imagery and automatic identification system (AIS) data suggest that China began constructing artificial islands on those reefs in September 2013, but analysis of Chinese documents by Wayne R Hugar of the US National Intelligence University published in the _Journal of Strategic Intelligence_ in 2016 suggests that the decision to do so was taken in 2011.

However, China is not the only country that has engaged in the expansion of features under its control. In June 2017, Gregory Poling of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington DC, said that, “Vietnam started small-scale land reclamation around 2011 and has now added about 150 acres of new land at 10 of the features it occupies.” He described Vietnam’s reclamation as “a drop in the bucket compared to what the Chinese have done, but it has allowed Vietnam to add some important capabilities”.

In May 2014, China sent an oil rig protected by a large flotilla of coastguard, naval, and fishing vessels into an area of sea claimed by Vietnam, just southwest of the Paracel Islands. Vietnam sent boats to try to block the Chinese flotilla and gave international publicity to the resulting confrontations. Vietnam sought, and received, formal support from its fellow members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

Over the following three months Vietnam significantly upgraded its defence relations with the United States: it joined the US-sponsored Proliferation Security Initiative, sent a member of the Communist Party Politburo to visit Washington, and hosted the first ever visit by a chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff to Hanoi.

China withdrew the oil rig and moved rapidly to repair relations. In October 2014, Vietnam dispatched the highest level military delegation ever to visit Beijing. The two countries’ prime ministers met that same month and relations began to recover. This has continued and the two sides have since exchanged several high-level visits.

In January 2017, the head of Vietnam’s Communist Party, Nguyen PhuTrong, met Chinese president Xi Jinping in Beijing and, in the words of their joint statement, “vowed to expand maritime and security co-operation”. In May 2017, the two countries’ presidents reached an ‘Agreement on basic principles guiding the settlement of issues at sea between Vietnam and China’. Nonetheless, _it is_ assessed that a significant degree of mistrust persists between the two sides on the issue of the South China Sea.

In July 2016, an international arbitration tribunal based in The Hague issued its ‘Award’ in a case brought by the Philippines against China over the latter’s activities in the South China Sea. The result was a success for Manila, but its impact was diminished by the election of Rodrigo Duterte as president two weeks beforehand. In contrast to his predecessor, Duterte has played down the importance of the Award in his dealings with China, preferring to focus on investment and aid. This has disappointed Vietnam because the legal action had *allowed a ‘Southeast Asian’ pushback against* *China‘s claims at minimal political cost to Hanoi.*

The Award is binding – but only on China and the Philippines. However, its rulings on two points in particular have major implications for all states. First, the tribunal ruled that none of the features in the Spratly Islands, nor the reef known as Scarborough Shoal, are true ‘islands’ as they have never supported permanent human habitation. This means that none of the features are entitled to a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ). Second, it ruled that the vague ‘U-shaped line’ printed on Chinese maps of the South China Sea since 1948 does not amount to a valid basis for a claim to maritime rights.

Ho Chi Minh City (HQ 183), the second of six Russian-built Improved Project 636 Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines, was commissioned into service with the Vietnamese People’s Navy in early April 2014. (PA)

If Vietnam wanted to make use of the same legal arguments it would have to bring a new case, which would be heard by new judges who would not be bound by the earlier ruling. However, if the new judges followed the same logic as the earlier tribunal, then the Paracels would be adjudged not to be full islands either. Accordingly, neither they, nor the ‘U-shaped line’, would be able to limit Vietnam’s claim to an EEZ of up to 200 nm from its mainland coast. Indeed, in a 2016 conference on the South China Sea that was sponsored by the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, officials used maps that reflected this position.

The legal benefits to Vietnam of winning such a case could be substantial: it would give its fishing and energy industries clear legal rights over a much larger area of sea. However, discussions with academic sources in Hanoi in May 2017 suggest that Vietnam is unlikely to bring such a case as political relations between the Communist Party leaderships in the two countries are good. The Beijing leadership would be incensed if Hanoi initiated legal action. Its retaliation would probably include more aggressive moves at sea and economic pressure elsewhere.

The only likely reason for Vietnam to bring such a case would be if China were to move against Vietnam’s maritime interests, for example by drilling for oil or gas within Vietnam’s claimed EEZ or attempting to take over a Vietnamese-held reef in the Spratly Islands.

Tellingly, in July 2014, during the oil rig confrontation, the Vietnamese Communist Party Politburo voted overwhelmingly to hold a meeting of the party’s Central Committee to endorse international legal action against China, according to an August 2014 report on the website The Diplomat. This never happened, but academic and diplomatic sources in Hanoi in May 2017 suggested that the basic legal preparations to move to arbitration had already been made, should conditions again change.

There are three broad motivations for China’s actions in the South China Sea: defence, resources, and bureaucratic self-interest. However, underpinning them all is a sense of national entitlement. Over the century since Chinese officials first staked a claim to islands in the sea, a narrative has been propagated to convince the country’s population that the reefs and rocks have been Chinese ‘since ancient times’. This narrative is evident in speeches by top leaders, in which state agencies are exhorted to defend the country’s ‘national territory’.





China has a strong national security motivation for controlling the South China Sea. National prosperity depends upon an arc of cities around its coast, and the movements of imports and exports that sustain them. In the view of Wu Shicun, president of China’s National Institute for South China Sea Studies, the primary reason for China’s stance on the South China Sea is to ensure strategic access to the world’s oceans.

The People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is tasked with keeping hostile forces away from the mainland coast and away from any potential conflict involving Taiwan. Analysts such as Tong Zhao of the Carnegie-Tsinghua Center for Global Policy in Beijing, writing in June 2016, have pointed to evidence from Chinese naval sources to argue that the PLAN intends to use the South ChinaSea as a ‘bastion’ in which to hide its ballistic missile submarines, based at Yulin naval base on Hainan.

Developments on China’s new artificial islands in the Spratlys support this view. Satellite imagery has revealed the presence of hangars for a range of aircraft alongside the 3,000-m runways on Fiery Cross, Mischief, and Subi reefs, in addition to large naval harbours. The remaining four features now house radar and communications arrays, among other infrastructure. These developments indicate that China is well on the way to installing the kind of infrastructure necessary to protect such a bastion.

Constructing a similar base on Scarborough Shoal would create a triangular ‘bastion’ in which air, surface, and subsurface assets could be deployed in order to protect China’s ballistic missile submarines. Given that these boats would, in effect, be the last line of defence for the Communist Party leadership in a time of crisis, the significance of this factor in China’s South China Sea policy should not be underestimated.

The second motivation for China’s actions is that Chinese officials regard the South China Sea as a partial solution to the country’s energy and food needs. There are three areas of disputed sea that contain substantial hydrocarbon reserves: Reed Bank, off the Philippines; James Shoal/Luconia Shoal off Malaysian Borneo; and Vanguard Bank off the Vietnamese coast. China’s new islands are well placed to provide support for any effort to drill in these areas.

In May 2017, Chinese minister of land and resources Jiang Daming announced that scientists had successfully recovered natural gas hydrate from the bed of the South China Sea, the Xinhua news agency reported. The process is still far from economical but it provides another incentive for China to assert control over mineral rights in the sea.

Significantly, the ‘White Paper’ published by the Chinese government immediately after the release of the arbitration tribunal ruling made almost no mention of oil and gas. By comparison, China’s fishing interests were mentioned repeatedly.

Since 2010, the central government has supported the expansion of the industry to meet rising consumer demand for fish, which has doubled over the past 20 years, according to Zhang Hongzhou of the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies (RSIS) in Singapore. Zhang told in June 2017 that “Chinese officials talk of the country’s ‘vast marine territories’ as a source of the nation’s fish”. This view is likely to lead to further confrontations with neighbouring countries’ fishing fleets, particularly as the legacy of years of overfishing reduces the overall catch.

The third motivation behind China’s actions is that a number of state agencies and coastal provinces are able to use the pretext of defending the national territory in ways that benefit their own narrow interests. Fishing fleets that have over-fished their inshore waters have received large subsidies to increase the size of their boats in order to fish further afield in disputed waters. The PLAN and the China Coast Guard are recipients of significant extra funding and prestige as a result of their actions in the South China Sea.

Over the past decade, Vietnam has rapidly upgraded its ability to project force into the South China Sea. In 2009, it ordered six Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines (SSKs) from Russia: the final one was delivered in February 2017. These boats are now docked in Cam Ranh Bay (see imagery below) and their crews are being trained.

Vietnam is still some way from being able to deploy the submarines effectively. One Western military observer in Hanoi told in April 2017 that the submarines have done little more than sail slowly around the harbour. Collin KohSwee Lean of the Maritime Security Programme at RSIS told in June that it could take until at least 2020, and perhaps even 2030, before Vietnamwould be able to fully operate its submarine fleet.

Vietnam has a certain amount of ‘home advantage’ when operating submarines off its long eastern coast. However, Koh told that China was developing a network of undersea surveillance sensors – along with its new features – that may negate this advantage. Koh told that in wartime, “the survivability of these boats would be in question”. Vietnam will therefore need to develop the means to counter Chinese anti-submarine capabilities.

Koh noted that the reported deployment of Israeli-supplied Extended Range Artillery (EXTRA) in August 2016 to Vietnamese-held features in the Spratlys, “could serve not only [as] defences against PLA amphibious assault, but also directly threaten those forward airstrips Beijing built to support air operations”.

Vietnam’s military has conducted an exercise simulating the deployment of its Russian-made K-300P mobile Bastion-P coastal defence system from its base (see imagery below) to an island off its coast. (QPVN)

In the event of any conflict between China and Vietnam the airspace over the Spratly Islands would be contested. Both Vietnam and China operate fighter aircraft capable of reaching the Paracels and the Spratly Islands without in-flight refuelling, in Vietnam’s case from air bases on its mainland and in both countries’ case from airstrips on features they control in the Spratlys. For example, Vietnam operates the Su-27 Flanker and China has a domestic variant in service, the J-11B. Similarly, in the event of a conflict, China would likely seek to deploy HQ-9 surface-to-air missile systems to the shelters it has prepared on features in the Spratly Islands, for example on Fiery Cross Reef.

Vietnam has acquired two batteries of Russian K300P Bastion-P shore-based anti-ship missiles. According to a report in Vietnamese media in November 2015, one of these is based in the south-central province of BìnhThuan, the closest coast to the Spratly Islands. Analysis of satellite imagery (see imagery below) has corroborated this report. From this position, the system could cover an area off Vietnam’s coast. However, as a mobile system, the Bastion-P could potentially be deployed to a Vietnamese-occupied feature in the Spratly Islands.

Vietnam has also expanded the land area on some of the reefs it controls (see imagery below). Poling told that the most significant developments were, “new harbours at Spratly Island, Southwest Cay, Sin Cowe Island, and West Reef, a substantially lengthened runway and additional hangar space at Spratly Island, and new radar and communications infrastructure on a number of the islands”. According to Poling, “Hanoi knows it can’t go toe-to-toe with the Chinese, or keep up with Beijing’s expansion plans, but Vietnam is working hard to make sure that it can resupply and defend its facilities while keeping an eye on the Chinese.”

The Vietnamese military as a whole is in the middle of a modernisation programme, officially called ‘Adjustments to the Vietnam People’s Army’s organization until 2020’. The intention is to facilitate joint working, integrate technology into operations, and upgrade the navy and air force. As Phuong Nguyen, fellow at the Pacific Forum of CSIS, wrote in the _Nikkei Asian Review_ in November 2016, “Vietnamese military officers have been emphasizing with greater frequency the need to maintain ‘combat readiness’ across all units.”

However, Le Hong Hiep, an analyst at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore, told in June that the country’s military spending is causing problems with government finances. This has been exacerbated by the combination of a reduced oil price and actual falls in production from Vietnam’s offshore fields. According to Le, the state budget deficit is already above 5% of GDP and is growing. Its public debt is almost at the official ceiling of 60% of GDP. As such, the Vietnamese government is likely to face budgetary constraints over the next three to five years, which will limit its ability to spend on ‘big ticket’ defence items.

China has superiority in numbers and technology, so Vietnam will need to upgrade its command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (C4ISR) capabilities, using satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles to have any credible deterrent.

India has offered help in this regard. In January 2016, the Reuters news agency reported that the Indian Space Research Organisation would set up a satellite ground station in Ho Chi Minh City. The report quoted an unnamed Indian official as saying that in exchange for hosting the site, Vietnam would have access to real-time satellite data, including imagery. Depending on the resolution and timeliness of the imagery provided, this could have military applications for Vietnam, although reports in the Indian press in May 2017 suggested that the project had not advanced.

Vietnamese efforts to improve maritime domain awareness may benefit from the US Maritime Security Initiative. In 2016, the US sent a team of experts to Vietnam to brief officials on maximising the use of unmanned aerial systems. A 2016 report on the website of the US Naval Institute stated that the US would also provide Vietnam with 10 Maritime Search and Rescue Optimal Planning System hardware and software packages with associated training and support.

Given the focus on fisheries and China’s assertive use of its coastguard and maritime militias to support its South China Sea policy, coastguard and fisheries protection vessels are a key capability for Vietnam to develop. Over the past year, Vietnam’s coastguard forces have been bolstered by transfers from Japan and the US. In March 2017, Japan handed over a second-hand fisheries’ protection vessel, and in January 2017, it agreed to sell six new coastguard patrol vessels to Vietnam for USD338 million – with the purchase funded by a concessional loan. In May 2017, the US transferred a high-endurance cutter, the former USCGC _Morgenthau_ , to Vietnam. The same week, US Ambassador Ted Osius oversaw a ceremony at which six 13-m Metal Shark Defiant patrol vessels were given to Vietnam. All of these vessels were provided without weaponry.

Since opening its new ‘International Seaport’ near the mouth of Cam Ranh Bay in March 2016, Vietnam has welcomed naval ships from France, India, Japan, the Philippines, Russia, South Korea, and Singapore, as well as China and the US. Cam Ranh International Port is a civilian facility, approximately one kilometre from the Vietnamese naval base, which is home to the country’s submarine fleet.

Perhaps because of the strategic sensitivity of the base, Vietnam had barred US warships (but not logistics vessels) from using Cam Ranh. However, that has changed since the opening of the new port. The Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS _John McCain_ visited in October 2016, and there have been two subsequent warship visits. At its opening, Vietnamese officials noted that it was capable of hosting an aircraft carrier, but none have yet visited. The largest visitor to date has been the Japanese helicopter carrier JS _Izumo_ in May 2017.

Vietnamese officials interviewed appeared dismayed by the election of Donald Trump as US president because of his scepticism towards international trade and his focus on North Korea, to the apparent exclusion of other concerns in Asia. The Hanoi leadership has been actively seeking alternative security partners in case Trump should further downgrade US diplomatic and military support to Vietnam.

There are several potential triggers for conflict in the South China Sea. The most likely risk comes from competition over marine resources: hydrocarbons and fish. Since the oil rig standoff in 2014, China has avoided directly confronting Vietnam with further expeditions. However, there have been a number of smaller confrontations, usually involving fishing vessels. A government source in Hanoi speaking in May 2017 suggested that, on an average day, the Vietnamese coastguard counts 10-30 intrusions into the country’s claimed EEZ by Chinese fishing boats. There are also incidents closer to the Paracel and Spratly island groups.

Such episodes have been contained so far, but there is always the possibility that a clash between fishing crews could escalate into a major incident. In January 2017, Vietnam and China agreed on the regulations to implement a ‘fisheries hotline’ to resolve the dispute. This was first mooted in 2013, suggesting that its activation is a significant confidence-building step.

Oil could be another pretext. Vietnam wants Spanish energy company Repsol to drill appraisal wells in 2017 in Block 136, approximately 270 km offshore. It has previously avoided doing so for fear of Chinese objections: China has leased the same area of sea to a Hong Kong-based company, Brightoil. If Vietnam does authorise drilling here, China is likely to object and perhaps intervene.

Vietnam would also like to see Blocks 133/134 explored, but a well-placed source within the oil industry in Southeast Asia told in June 2017 that there was a tacit agreement between China and Vietnam that, for the time being, neither side would attempt to drill in these blocks to avoid confrontation. There is always the possibility, however, that one side or other may break this ‘truce’.

In January 2017, ExxonMobil signed an agreement for a gas development (CaVoiXanh – Blue Whale) 80 km off the central Vietnamese coast. The agreement envisaged the first gas being produced in 2023. The field lies well within conventional definitions of Vietnam’s EEZ, but China’s U-shaped line cuts through it. China has not formally responded to the agreement, but it may yet do so.

The course China’s leadership chooses to pursue in this case and in the South China Sea more broadly will probably depend upon which of two contradictory imperatives is stronger: its belief that every feature in the South China Sea rightfully belongs to China versus its desire to be seen as a responsible member of the international community.

For the time being, particularly since China is keen to promote the Belt and Road initiative and other trading arrangements such as the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), the situation appears stable. However, in May 2017, Duterte claimed that Xi had warned him there “would be war” if Manila drilled for gas on the Reed Bank. Although there is likely to be an element of rhetoric in such threats – if indeed they were made at all – what is certain is that Beijing regards the South China Sea as more than an issue of national security, but one of national entitlement.

Moreover, in a region as complex as the South China Sea, with a large number of competing state claimants, and with an even greater number of internal government and military agencies to co-ordinate, there is a real possibility of an incident emerging that – at least initially – develops beyond the control of the leadership in Beijing.

Although both countries claim links to the rocks and reefs of the South China Sea going back centuries, there is little concrete evidence of actual administrative control until the 20th century. China first made a formal claim to the Paracel Islands in 1909 and to the Spratly Islands in 1946. France, the colonial power in Indochina, made a formal claim to the Spratlys in April 1930 and to the Paracels in December 1931.

After the Second World War, China and France took up rival positions in the eastern and western Paracels respectively. France renewed its claim to the Spratlys in October 1946 and Chinaoccupied one of the features, Itu Aba, two months later.

In January 1974, People’s Republic of China forces invaded the western Paracels, evicting the (southern) Vietnamese. Several Vietnamese were killed. In response, the Saigon government ordered the occupation of several of the Spratlys. These positions were taken by advancing (north) Vietnamese communist forces just before the end of the Vietnam War in early 1975. Relations between Vietnam and China deteriorated badly after the war, resulting in a border conflict in 1979 and a proxy war in Cambodia that lasted until 1990. The PRC first occupied reefs in the Spratlys in 1988.

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## gambit

Farhan Bohra said:


> Whats the problem in blaming US? US bombed the whole shit, and leave that. US bombed the Laos and Cambodia.
> 
> Does these countries were at state of war with US? Does US going to pay reparations to Cambodia and Laos for bombing those countries and violating there sovereignty?
> 
> Or US just somehow, by god's grace got this knowledge that these country's were third world and poor, so US was liable to violate and bomb these countries?
> I am impressed by your hypocrisy, first you bomb people, and then say hey dont blame us.
> 
> Instead of becoming like holier than thou, you should say that US was serving there own interest in Vietnam like Soviet Union. And we bombed the whole shit because of our interests.
> 
> That should be better argument.


Why did the US bombed Laos and Cambodia ? Because North Viet Nam created the Ho Chi Minh Trail thru those countries. What gave North Viet Nam the right to violate the territorial borders of those countries ?

Do much thinking ? Obviously not.


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## Carlosa

Barmaley said:


> Signed contract for delivery of T-90S to Vietnam. The number is 64 tanks.
> The delivery will beggins till the end of this year.



Tovarish, do you know what the price difference is between the T-90MS and the T-90S?


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Many things, best tank gun in the world (same gun as in Armata tank) can shoot at a longer range than any other tank, better fire control system, better APS and passive protection, better armor, bigger engine, etc. Here is a good video about that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Why T-90MS Tagil is not just upgraded tank for Indian Army*
> September 13, 2015
> 
> http://idrw.org/why-t-90ms-tagil-is-not-just-upgraded-tank-for-indian-army/
> 
> SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK (INN)
> 
> According to reports prepared by Russian media, India and Russia are exploring possible supply of new T-90MS battle tanks. T-90MS also referred as Tagil, was first unveiled in 2011 was offered to India soon after.
> 
> India at present locally manufactures older T-90S tanks and already operates more than 1000 T-90 tanks in its current fleet. new T-90MS which India plans to procure is for China front as per Indian media reports.
> 
> It will be wrong to term T-90MS a modernised variant of T-90S says Defence analyst close to idrw.org. T-90MS improves vastly upon on Crew survivability, offensive capabilities and also comes with much more powerfull engines while still carrying ammunition compatibility with older T-90S tanks.
> 
> T-90MS design has some of the quite radical improvements compared to its predecessors T-90S, MS has improved Crew protection and has improved Survivability of the tank with the introduction of new Relikt ERA which replaces Kontakt-5 ERA which improves protection against tandem warheads and reduces penetration of APFSDS rounds by over 50%.
> 
> Relikt ERA is also capable of defeating even the most modern versions of the SABOT ammo based on depleted uranium. According to Russian Experts, Relikt ERA can take double the hits from RPG and other anti-tanks weapons then older Kontakt-5 ERA ensuring better survivability of the tank in a heavy war zone.
> 
> T-90MS with new Kalina fire control system along with a new 125-mm high-accuracy smoothbore gun also has improved range over its predecessors and accuracy to will see 15-20 improvement in the new tank and improved ability to tackle low flying helicopters.
> 
> T-90MS also comes with new powerful V-92S2F diesel engine with 1130 HP which also improves overhaul tank speed by 10-15 mph with improved suspension.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an excellent video with a lot of detail information, the best one I think. English with Vietnamese subtitles:


so the T90MS is the Mercedes among the cars. I guess not cheap for us at all if acquiring it in large quantity.

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## Farhan Bohra

gambit said:


> Why did the US bombed Laos and Cambodia ? Because North Viet Nam created the Ho Chi Minh Trail thru those countries. What gave North Viet Nam the right to violate the territorial borders of those countries ?
> 
> Do much thinking ? Obviously not.



So that gave the authority to US to bomb with impunity? What wrong Ho Chinh Minh ever done to US?

Ohh, maybe he bombed the Pearl Harbor. Maybe he was the man behind 9/11? And somehow US got the knowledge through time machine that he was behind who destroyed WTC?

Ever you thought about this. Obviously not. And by this argument of yours, those who funded the attacks on 9/11 should be bombed i.e. KSA.

So tell me when your country going to bomb Saudi Arabia?
But still your country selling weapons to them? Didnt your country hold answers to families of those who died in 9/11?

You need to really think about what you saying. And please keep this holier than thou argument in your pocket. Like God given power to US to save Vietnam from evil communism. Stop this BS.


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## Viet

Ok what happens else? VN delegation arrived Germany. PM Phuc shakes hand with Angela Merkel. Yesterday she shook hand with a guest from a big country big economy big everything coming from the Far East. VN is a small fish among the G20 economies but nevertheless VN bilateral trades this year will reach $400 billion. Should the trend continue Vietnam trade volumes will hit the $1 trillion mark in 5 years. And from this perspective the small fish looks interesting for Germany. A market for German products and services. Not to mention the growing numbers of small Vietnamese businesses in Germany that probably have reached a new record.

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## frequency

Farhan Bohra said:


> So that gave the authority to US to bomb with impunity? What wrong Ho Chinh Minh ever done to US?
> 
> Ohh, maybe he bombed the Pearl Harbor. Maybe he was the man behind 9/11? And somehow US got the knowledge through time machine that he was behind who destroyed WTC?
> 
> Ever you thought about this. Obviously not. And by this argument of yours, those who funded the attacks on 9/11 should be bombed i.e. KSA.
> 
> So tell me when your country going to bomb Saudi Arabia?
> But still your country selling weapons to them? Didnt your country hold answers to families of those who died in 9/11?
> 
> You need to really think about what you saying. And please keep this holier than thou argument in your pocket. Like God given power to US to save Vietnam from evil communism. Stop this BS.



It was a war. USA doesn't need authority but a reason to do it. There's no such things as mercy in a war. It is all about self-interest. It doesn't matter if you are a good guy or a bad guy. Small or big. USA does things abruptly you just have to be more prepared. This is expected. This shouldn't be news to anyone.


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## Viet

*Vietnamese to be able to visit S. Korea more easily*
2017-07-06 15:25


HANOI, July 6 (Yonhap) -- South Korea will simplify the issuance of single-entry visas and expand the scope of multi-entry ones for Vietnamese travelers next week in a bid to increase bilateral trade and investment, and attract more tourists from the Southeast Asian nation, an official at the South Korean Embassy in Hanoi said Thursday.

"The lenient steps, which will be taken Monday, will also increase the number of local travel agencies in charge of visa issuance for group tourists from the current 10 to 15, and curtail the period required to process visas from the current eight days to five," the official said.

In addition, some of the documents necessary to obtain a visa will not be required for office workers from the top 500 Vietnamese companies and South Korean businesses operating in Vietnam, government officials, and those invited by the South Korean government and public agencies, according to the official.

Those who earn more than US$8,000, gold or platinum international credit cardholders, doctors, lawyers, accountants and journalists will also receive the same benefits.






In this undated file photo, Vietnamese tourists dressed in traditional Korean costumes walk in front of a palace in Seoul. (Yonhap)

South Korea will also increase the issuance of multiple-entry visas, which have so far been restricted in fear of illegal Vietnamese stayers, the official said.

Multiple-entry visas will be allowed for government officials, employees at state-run companies, heads of companies, managers who have worked at listed companies for more than a year and those who have spent more than 2 million won (US$1,730) on medical tours in South Korea in the recent 12 months.

The duration of a multiple-entry visa will be five years, with its holders to be able to stay for 30 days at one time, the official said.

Complaints from the Vietnamese side that South Korea is too restrictive in relation to visa issuance despite its visa-free entry for South Korean tourists for up to 15 days, have been also taken into account in easing the visa issuance this time, the official said.

"The simplification of visa issuance will contribute to furthering exchanges between the two countries whose diplomatic relations celebrate the 25th anniversary this year and bringing in more Vietnamese tourists into South Korea," South Korean Ambassador to Vietnam Lee Hyuk said.

Meanwhile, the number of Vietnamese visiting South Korea increased 54.5 percent to 251,402 last year from a year ago.

hsj@yna.co.kr

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## Nilgiri

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ense-south-china-sea/articleshow/59478405.cms

*'Strategic move': Vietnam renews India oil deal in tense South China Sea*

================
Vietnamese brothers, sisters and mutual friends, once we done exposing hollowness of a certain bully barking threats (mostly through its media mouthpieces) in Sikkim/Bhutan border area....there will be more credibility for expanding of India-Vietnam bilateral ties given bluffs would be called by then and cards shown. More needs to be operationalised. 

Hope you all gonna watch Malabar naval exercises (starting tomorrow and lasts 10 days) too. Hope sometime in the future Vietnam navy is a participant.

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## Viet

Nice ship made by Damen Song Cam shipyard: 2,400 tons, 23 knots, 94 metre long multi purpose vessel for Australian Navy. More to come.

*MV Sycamore*

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## Farhan Bohra

*Vietnam renews India oil deal in tense South China Sea*


Vietnam has extended an Indian oil concession in the South China Sea and begun drilling in another area it disputes with China in moves that could heighten tensions over who owns what in the vital maritime region.

The moves come at a delicate time in Beijing's relations with Vietnam, which claims parts of the sea, and India, which recently sent warships to monitor the Malacca Straits, through which most of China's energy supplies and trade passes.

Vietnam granted Indian oil firm ONGC Videsh a two-year extension to explore oil block 128 in a letter that arrived earlier this week, the state-run company's managing director Narendra K. Verma told Reuters.

Part of that block is in the U-shaped 'nine-dash line' which marks the vast area that China claims in the sea, a route for more than $5 trillion in trade each year in which the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan also have claims.

A senior official of ONGC Videsh, who asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter, said interest in the block was strategic rather than commercial, given that oil development there was seen as high-risk with only moderate potential.

"Vietnam also wants us to be there because of China's interventions in the South China Sea," the official said.

Vietnam's state-run PetroVietnam declined to comment on the concession, which was first granted to India in 2006 but had been due to expire in mid-June.

Conflicting territorial claims over the sea stretch back many decades but have intensified in recent years as China and its rivals have reinforced their positions on the rocks and reefs they hold.

Far to the south of block 128, drilling has begun in a block owned jointly by Vietnam's state oil firm, Spain's Repsol and Mubadala Development Co [MUDEV.UL] of the United Arab Emirates.

Deepsea Metro I, operated by Odfjell Drilling Ltd., has been drilling in the region since the middle of last month on behalf of Spain's Repsol SA, which also has rights to neighboring block 07/03, Odfjell said.

Odfjell declined to comment on the specific location of its vessel, but shipping data from Thomson Reuters Eikon showed it was in oil block 136/3, which also overlaps China's claims.

Odfjell's Eirik Knudsen, V‎ice President for Corporate Finance and Investor Relations, referred further queries to Repsol, which declined to comment. PetroVietnam made no comment.



COMPETING MARITIME CLAIMS

When asked about the activity, Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said China opposes anyone "carrying out unilateral, illegal oil and gas activities in waters China has jurisdiction over".

"We hope the relevant country can act on the basis of maintaining regional peace and stability and not do anything to complicate the situation," he told a briefing in Beijing.

Chinese General Fan Changlong cut short a visit to Vietnam and a friendship meeting at the China-Vietnam border was canceled around the time the drilling began.

The centuries-old mistrust between China and Vietnam is nowhere more evident than in their competing maritime claims, despite their shared communist ideology and growing trade.

Asked about the most recent drilling, Vietnamese officials said their Chinese counterparts have started raising concerns about cooperation with both Repsol and ExxonMobil Corp. of the United States, which is developing the $10 billion "Blue Whale" gas concession off central Vietnam.

They said Chinese officials also expressed concern at Vietnam's evolving security relationships with the United States and Japan, both of which have offered moral support for its South China Sea claims and help for Vietnam's coastguard.

Tensions with China were being contained, however, and had not yet reached crisis proportions, they said.

"We know they are unhappy again, but we are resisting the pressure – it is a traditional part of our relations with Beijing," one official said privately. "Other parts of the relationship remain strong."

Underlining the relationship between India and Vietnam, Vietnamese deputy prime minister Pham Binh Minh told a forum in New Delhi this week that India was welcome to play a bigger role in Southeast Asia - and specifically the South China Sea.

Hanoi's growing defense and commercial ties with India are part of its strategy of seeking many partnerships with big powers while avoiding formal military alliances.

The pace has picked up since Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's administration took office in 2014 and sought to push back against China's expanding presence in South Asia by raising its diplomatic and military engagement in Southeast Asia.

India is providing naval patrol boats, satellite cover to monitor Vietnam's waters and training for its submarines and fighter pilots - more military support than it is giving to any other Southeast Asian country.

On the agenda are transfers of naval vessels and missiles under a $500 million defense credit line announced last year.

Next week, the navies of India, the United States and Japan will hold their largest joint exercises in the Bay of Bengal.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-vietnam-idUSKBN19R25P

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Goes Bold In the South China Sea*

https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/07/06/vietnam-goes-bold-south-china-sea/

Vietnam continues to be China’s feistiest rival in the South China Sea. Earlier this week, _BBC News _broke the story that Hanoi had allowed oil drilling to proceed in the South China Sea, setting off a diplomatic row with China:

An oil industry consultant told the BBC that a drilling ship on contract to international firm Talisman-Vietnam was working off Vietnam’s south-east coast.

This appears to be why a senior Chinese general cut short an official visit to Vietnam last month. 

According to Ian Cross, of Singapore-based Moyes & Co, the drillship Deepsea Metro I, began to drill in an area of sea about 400km (250 miles) off the Vietnamese coast on 21 June. […]

The piece of seabed in question is known as Block 136-03 by Vietnam, but China calls it Wan-an Bei 21 and has leased out the same area to a different company.

Block 136-03 is not the only site where Vietnam is pushing China’s buttons. Reuters reports today that Hanoi has given an Indian company the go-ahead to proceed with oil exploration in block 128, another area of contention:

Vietnam granted Indian oil firm ONGC Videsh a two-year extension to explore oil block 128 in a letter that arrived earlier this week, the state-run company’s managing director Narendra K. Verma told Reuters. […]

A senior official of ONGC Videsh … said interest in the block was strategic rather than commercial, given that oil development there was seen as high-risk with only moderate potential.

“Vietnam also wants us to be there because of China’s interventions in the South China Sea,” the official said.

The timing here does not seem accidental. Vietnam renewed the Indian oil deal just after Vietnam’s Foreign Minister concluded a four-day visit to India, where he talked up greater security and economic cooperation. The same week, India’s External Affairs Minister was singing to Vietnam’s tune at an ASEAN event, insisting that countries uphold “freedom of navigation and respect for international law” in the South China Sea, while forecasting a greater Indian role in cooperating with ASEAN. Those signals add more data points to a growing picture of Indian-Vietnamese alignment as both countries cooperate to turn up the heat on China.

To top it all off, Vietnam also kicked off joint drills with the U.S. Navy yesterday. Those exercises were previously scheduled, but they came just days after an American warship sailed by a China-claimed islet in the South China Sea, provoking furious denunciations from Beijing. Taken together with recent promises of U.S.-Vietnamese intelligence sharing, China may swiftly conclude that the U.S. is about to more aggressively counter China’s claims and support Vietnam.

Until recently, China has enjoyed a substantially free hand in the South China Sea, making major progress without sufficient pushback. As Vietnam acts more boldly to defy China’s claims, and larger powers like the U.S. and India step up their commitments, could that be about to change?

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ense-south-china-sea/articleshow/59478405.cms
> 
> *'Strategic move': Vietnam renews India oil deal in tense South China Sea*
> 
> ================
> Vietnamese brothers, sisters and mutual friends, once we done exposing hollowness of a certain bully barking threats (mostly through its media mouthpieces) in Sikkim/Bhutan border area....there will be more credibility for expanding of India-Vietnam bilateral ties given bluffs would be called by then and cards shown. More needs to be operationalised.
> 
> Hope you all gonna watch Malabar naval exercises (starting tomorrow and lasts 10 days) too. Hope sometime in the future Vietnam navy is a participant.



Good luck to the Indian brothers with the Sikkim/Bhutan border issues. India will prevail.

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## Carlosa

Interesting article since it says "*Fulfilled* the contract to deliver *64 T-90MS* tanks to Vietnam".

If this is correct, then Vietnam already received all the tanks. It also says T-90MS, not S. I think that's probably a mistake.

*Russia Exported Hundreds of T-90 Tanks in 2016 *
Buyers were Iraq, Vietnam and Kuwait. Egypt and India will probably follow

RI Staff 


17 hours ago | 1894 24

http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-exported-hundreds-t-90-tanks-2016/ri20279





According to its recently published report Russia's biggest tank-maker Uralvagonzavod in 2016:


*Fulfilled* the contract to deliver *64 T-90MS* tanks to Vietnam
Finished delivering 146 T-90MS tanks to Kuwait
Delivered the first batch of 73 T-90S tanks to Iraq
Of these the sales made to Kuwait and Iraq are the most interesting.

Kuwait follows a broadly pro-American foreign policy orientation, but when it comes to buying military hardware often gets it from Eastern Europe bloc countries. Along with US-made M1 Abrams tanks and British-made Warrior infantry carriers it also operates hundreds of Russian-made BMP-3 armored transporters and Yugoslav-made M-84 tanks (licensed-built T-72s).

Since it invaded it in 2003 the US has transferred vast quantities of US-made weaponry to Iraq as aid, but when it comes to spending its own money on arms Baghdad is increasingly likely to buy Russian rather than American. In a high-profile transfer in 2014 Iraq bought Russian Su-25 ground attack planes after Obama delayed transfers of American-built F-16s.

A T-90MS tank goes for about $4.5 million, while the T-90S is somewhat cheaper.

Uralvagonzavod is also close to a deal to export up to 500 T-90MS tanks to India, and upgrade 1,000 of its T-72s. As well as another deal to help Egypt assemble 400-500 T-90S tanks at home.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> Interesting article since it says "*Fulfilled* the contract to deliver *64 T-90MS* tanks to Vietnam".
> 
> If this is correct, then Vietnam already received all the tanks. It also says T-90MS, not S. I think that's probably a mistake.
> 
> *Russia Exported Hundreds of T-90 Tanks in 2016 *
> Buyers were Iraq, Vietnam and Kuwait. Egypt and India will probably follow
> 
> RI Staff
> 
> 
> 17 hours ago | 1894 24
> 
> http://russia-insider.com/en/military/russia-exported-hundreds-t-90-tanks-2016/ri20279
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to its recently published report Russia's biggest tank-maker Uralvagonzavod in 2016:
> 
> 
> *Fulfilled* the contract to deliver *64 T-90MS* tanks to Vietnam
> Finished delivering 146 T-90MS tanks to Kuwait
> Delivered the first batch of 73 T-90S tanks to Iraq
> Of these the sales made to Kuwait and Iraq are the most interesting.
> 
> Kuwait follows a broadly pro-American foreign policy orientation, but when it comes to buying military hardware often gets it from Eastern Europe bloc countries. Along with US-made M1 Abrams tanks and British-made Warrior infantry carriers it also operates hundreds of Russian-made BMP-3 armored transporters and Yugoslav-made M-84 tanks (licensed-built T-72s).
> 
> Since it invaded it in 2003 the US has transferred vast quantities of US-made weaponry to Iraq as aid, but when it comes to spending its own money on arms Baghdad is increasingly likely to buy Russian rather than American. In a high-profile transfer in 2014 Iraq bought Russian Su-25 ground attack planes after Obama delayed transfers of American-built F-16s.
> 
> A T-90MS tank goes for about $4.5 million, while the T-90S is somewhat cheaper.
> 
> Uralvagonzavod is also close to a deal to export up to 500 T-90MS tanks to India, and upgrade 1,000 of its T-72s. As well as another deal to help Egypt assemble 400-500 T-90S tanks at home.



How many roughly is Vietnam looking to acquire of this class of tank longer term (64 doesnt sound enough to me)...and is Vietnam looking to assemble locally?


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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> How many roughly is Vietnam looking to acquire of this class of tank longer term (64 doesnt sound enough to me)...and is Vietnam looking to assemble locally?



Nobody has any clue about that, everything is done in secrecy, no announcements, just rumors, the people that know will not talk. Its very frustrating but that's how it is here.

One lesson here for some people (particularly some Indonesian members) that always dismiss the "rumors" and refuse to believe any possibility at all unless they see it, no matter how much we tell them that the Vietnamese military is obsessed with secrecy and love to make purchases in secret and are able to keep army equipment hidden for years and years, still, they don't even want to recognize that that's how the Vietnamese military (particularly army) operates.

So here it is, the order for the T-90 was placed around 2 years ago and it seems like they have been delivered or the delivery will be fulfilled by the end of the year depending on the source.

Me and others have been saying a few times in the last 2 years that Vietnam had ordered T-90 tanks, but these people always laugh at us, well, now we know the truth.

To believe that the T-90 is a unique case would be very unrealistic to say the least. I keep seeing a pattern of deals that appeared to have been made and then... puff, nothing gets heard again. Whether is the French Caesar artillery or the Aster missiles where we even saw pictures of Vietnamese servicemen taking training classes in France or imminent equipment from India (Brahmos, etc) or from USA where there was a lot of talk about a long shopping list, etc, etc, and nothing gets heard again, I think its very likely that some of those deals have continued in secrecy. It only makes sense.

I know there is a lot more going on under the carpet, but except a lucky hint, we just don't know what's really happening.

One example, I said a few times before that Vietnam has T-72 tanks that are kept secret. Well, a bit more than a year ago, a Russian government official of the Russian military export agency said that Vietnam had approached them to upgrade its 480 T-72 tanks. Why would a Russian government official lie about that? It would make no sense. Later, unofficial reports came up that Vietnam bought those tanks from Belarus in 2009-2010. I believe the story; can I prove it? Certainly not, but there is strong circunstancial evidence.

Sometimes the rumors are not true, sometimes are true, that's how it is with the Vietnamese military and that is precisely their intention.

My point here is, don't be too quick to dismiss rumors, some of them are for real.

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## Aqsuperman

Nilgiri said:


> How many roughly is Vietnam looking to acquire of this class of tank longer term (64 doesnt sound enough to me)...and is Vietnam looking to assemble locally?



Since Vn focus on a defensive stance, T-90 tanks will serve as mobile counter attack. We wont need too many of them but about 8 -12 battalions are surely a must. 64 is just a start. And although we all love to produce or at least assemble them locally, our industry cant support such a move.

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## Viet

the Islamist terrorists operating in the Philippines have crossed the red line. They kidnap our people and demand ransom. When refused they bluntly kill the hostages as seen now with two Vietnamese sailors beheaded in Basilian. The government condemns the act and asks for justice. The question now is whether or not VN will actively assist the Philippine army in anti terror operations to clean the scum.

http://m.philstar.com/314191/show/b7d19a2f4c332f7cc545c940130cdec3/?

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## Nike

@Carlosa


*Russia's T-90 makes inroads in Middle East market*
*Jeremy Binnie, London* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
06 July 2017
An annual report released by Russian tank manufacturer UralVagonZavod (UVZ) revealed a series of T-90 deals with Middle East countries.




A T-90MS is put through its paces during IDEX 2013. (IHS Markit/Patrick Allen)

The report was published on the UVZ website, but later removed after Russian defence analysts revealed the customers it identified using code numbers.

According to these analysts, the report stated that UVZ is planning to implement orders that Iraq and Vietnam have placed respectively for 73 and 64 T-90S/SK tanks, to finalise Kuwait's order for 146 T-90MS/MSK tanks, and work to secure an Indian order for 356 T-90MS tanks.

The T-90S is the basic export model, the T-90MS (also known as the T-90SM) is a more advanced export version, and the 'K' postfix is a reference to command versions.

UVZ will also work on a project to establish a facility to license assemble T-90S/SKs in Egypt and another to establish repair facilities for the T-90S/SKs already delivered to Algeria.

The T-90 has previously struggled to find customers in the Middle East, although Russia has supplied a small number to the Syria Arab Army or allied pro-government militia.

http://www.janes.com/article/72090/russia-s-t-90-makes-inroads-in-middle-east-market

well we all love secrecy, but in modern age like today, even such closed country cant hide such a deal. The rumours about secret procurement is not only Vietnam forte, my country had done such acts in the past and even today. How if i said Indonesia secretly buying two regiments of NASAM Medium SAMS (and planning to placed them in Natuna), got a deal with the Ukrainian to assist us in developing Short range ballistic missile system and AA missiles based on Vympel design, put more order on Leopard2, placing order on ASCOD Pizzaro, putting plan to raising at least 3 more fighter regiments (with Rafale, Eurofighter as leading contender), placing order on SIGINT/ELIN aircraft based on C295 platform and getting colaboration with Denmark to built series of AAW Destroyer and Support Frigates. Most of you would rather not believe it


Even i got valid clue and first hand photograph or documents i would rather not to discuss that until the services and other party make clear statements about such procurement.

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## Bussard Ramjet

*Amid Sikkim standoff, India-Vietnam discuss China's aggressive posturing in Asia*

http://www.newsnation.in/india-news...ressive-posturing-in-asia-article-176248.html

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## frequency

Nilgiri said:


> How many roughly is Vietnam looking to acquire of this class of tank longer term (64 doesnt sound enough to me)...and is Vietnam looking to assemble locally?



all in all, Vietnam has about 2000 tanks. Not sure of all the models. But that would give you some idea.



Viet said:


> the Islamist terrorists operating in the Philippines have crossed the red line. They kidnap our people and demand ransom. When refused they bluntly kill the hostages as seen now with two Vietnamese sailors beheaded in Basilian. The government condemns the act and asks for justice. The question now is whether or not VN will actively assist the Philippine army in anti terror operations to clean the scum.
> 
> http://m.philstar.com/314191/show/b7d19a2f4c332f7cc545c940130cdec3/?



They are going to end up like the Pol pot luck.

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## gambit

Farhan Bohra said:


> So that gave the authority to US to bomb with impunity?


Actually -- Yes. The Geneva Convention says so. Let us see if you gots the brains to find out the reasoning. Finally, the Geneva Convention is not the first document to give that permission. This understanding have been around since the beginning of warfare.

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> @Carlosa
> 
> 
> *Russia's T-90 makes inroads in Middle East market*
> *Jeremy Binnie, London* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
> 06 July 2017
> An annual report released by Russian tank manufacturer UralVagonZavod (UVZ) revealed a series of T-90 deals with Middle East countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A T-90MS is put through its paces during IDEX 2013. (IHS Markit/Patrick Allen)
> 
> The report was published on the UVZ website, but later removed after Russian defence analysts revealed the customers it identified using code numbers.
> 
> According to these analysts, the report stated that UVZ is planning to implement orders that Iraq and Vietnam have placed respectively for 73 and 64 T-90S/SK tanks, to finalise Kuwait's order for 146 T-90MS/MSK tanks, and work to secure an Indian order for 356 T-90MS tanks.
> 
> The T-90S is the basic export model, the T-90MS (also known as the T-90SM) is a more advanced export version, and the 'K' postfix is a reference to command versions.
> 
> UVZ will also work on a project to establish a facility to license assemble T-90S/SKs in Egypt and another to establish repair facilities for the T-90S/SKs already delivered to Algeria.
> 
> The T-90 has previously struggled to find customers in the Middle East, although Russia has supplied a small number to the Syria Arab Army or allied pro-government militia.
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/72090/russia-s-t-90-makes-inroads-in-middle-east-market
> 
> well we all love secrecy, but in modern age like today, even such closed country cant hide such a deal. The rumours about secret procurement is not only Vietnam forte, my country had done such acts in the past and even today. How if i said Indonesia secretly buying two regiments of NASAM Medium SAMS (and planning to placed them in Natuna), got a deal with the Ukrainian to assist us in developing Short range ballistic missile system and AA missiles based on Vympel design, put more order on Leopard2, placing order on ASCOD Pizzaro, putting plan to raising at least 3 more fighter regiments (with Rafale, Eurofighter as leading contender), placing order on SIGINT/ELIN aircraft based on C295 platform and getting colaboration with Denmark to built series of AAW Destroyer and Support Frigates. Most of you would rather not believe it
> 
> 
> Even i got valid clue and first hand photograph or documents i would rather not to discuss that until the services and other party make clear statements about such procurement.


Sis mado you are right. I agree. that makes little sense to keep secret of everything, least the tanks. Such giant monster can't be hidden before satellites. Though I question why you need destroyers and submarines considering Indonesia defense paper sees a war in the SCS impossible, the likelyhood of a asteroid falling on earth killing all of us is higher and main threat to your country is Vietnamese illegal fishermen, Chinese turtle poachers, poor immigrants, Islamist terrorists and other unwanted individuals. Don't you think destroyer is overkill?


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Sis mado you are right. I agree. that makes little sense to keep secret of everything, least the tanks. Such giant monster can't be hidden before satellites. Though I question why you need destroyers and submarines considering Indonesia defense paper sees a war in the SCS impossible, the likelyhood of a asteroid falling on earth killing all of us is higher and main threat to your country is Vietnamese illegal fishermen, Chinese turtle poachers, poor immigrants, Islamist terrorists and other unwanted individuals. Don't you think destroyer is overkill?



I definitely don't agree with all this obsession for secrecy and I think there is very little hardware that Vietnam can hide from China. In the end the hiding is effective only from the media and the regular people like us, but they do it anyway.

The fact is that if we didn't hear from Barmelay and because of that announcement from the tank factory, we would still be in the dark about this and it was going on for 2 years. And now the report was pulled which shows the intention to keep it secret.

@madokafc



Bussard Ramjet said:


> *Amid Sikkim standoff, India-Vietnam discuss China's aggressive posturing in Asia*
> 
> http://www.newsnation.in/india-news...ressive-posturing-in-asia-article-176248.html



Its good to see that. Same story everywhere, the big bully wants to expand in all directions and for those that think that agreements and promises from China are worth anything, they just need to remember what the chinese just said about the agreement with UK about Hong Kong: "Its no longer relevant and we are not bound by it".



Nilgiri said:


> How many roughly is Vietnam looking to acquire of this class of tank longer term (64 doesnt sound enough to me)...and is Vietnam looking to assemble locally?



Very unlikely for Vietnam to assemble a T-90 tank locally when they are not even assembling APC's. 
The quantity would not be enough to justify it anyway and the local capabilities are not up to the task.

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## Farhan Bohra

gambit said:


> Actually -- Yes. The Geneva Convention says so. Let us see if you gots the brains to find out the reasoning. Finally, the Geneva Convention is not the first document to give that permission. This understanding have been around since the beginning of warfare.




US never ratified Protocol 1 &2 of Geneva Convention. What a great hypocrisy of yours.

Now you throwing treaties which not followed by your country?
And tell me when your country going to bomb Saudi Arabia under Geneva Convention?

Now I really doubt you are even a US citizen, who even dont know some basic facts about your own country.


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ense-south-china-sea/articleshow/59478405.cms
> 
> *'Strategic move': Vietnam renews India oil deal in tense South China Sea*
> 
> ================
> Vietnamese brothers, sisters and mutual friends, once we done exposing hollowness of a certain bully barking threats (mostly through its media mouthpieces) in Sikkim/Bhutan border area....there will be more credibility for expanding of India-Vietnam bilateral ties given bluffs would be called by then and cards shown. More needs to be operationalised.
> 
> Hope you all gonna watch Malabar naval exercises (starting tomorrow and lasts 10 days) too. Hope sometime in the future Vietnam navy is a participant.


we can´t deploy warships to exercise in the Indian Ocean yet because someone would take advantage from the peaceful rise and rob our country. Give us 5 more years then we both could do shark hunting exercises in both the South China sea and Indian Ocean. in the meanwhile Indian surface warships and submarines are welcome to visit the Bay if there is a need to re-supply.

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## Viet

Welcome to Hamburg!

Donald Trump is in the city. more heavily armed policemen have been called on, and as bonbon, APCs from the German armed forces. Lets see if we will see Leopard main battle tanks on the streets. the rioters have called the G20 summit as "Welcome to Hell!".



















Oh in a quite place, Vietnam/Germany summit takes place with signing 28 agreements worth $1.7 billion. The bilateral trades should increase to $20 billion in the next few years. Besides Germany is committed to providing Vietnam with money and expertise in all fields from education to climate change adaptation.

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## Viet

Sea trails of Gepard frigate in the Black Sea






Inspection of ammunition factory z113










APC Guardians

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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Sis mado you are right. I agree. that makes little sense to keep secret of everything, least the tanks. Such giant monster can't be hidden before satellites. Though I question why you need destroyers and submarines considering Indonesia defense paper sees a war in the SCS impossible, the likelyhood of a asteroid falling on earth killing all of us is higher and main threat to your country is Vietnamese illegal fishermen, Chinese turtle poachers, poor immigrants, Islamist terrorists and other unwanted individuals. Don't you think destroyer is overkill?


There's many reasons but the defense of the natuna & the strait is the main factor for procuring destroyers & subs.

Also we're indonesian we are destined to rule the waves. [emoji48]


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## Viet

Update: July 6, 2017






Viet Nam News
The American salvage ship USNS Salvor (T-ARS-52) and littoral combat ship USS Coronado of the United States Navy arrive at the Cam Ranh Bay in the central province of Khánh Hòa on Wednesday to join the eighth annual Naval Engagement Activity (NEA) with the Việt Nam People’s Navy. Held July 5-10, NEA focuses on training skills on military medical, marine salvage skills, and maritime security, as well as practicing the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES). — Photo tuoitre.vn

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## Viet

Two US B1 strategic bombers conduct reconnaissance flight over the Chinese made artificial islands. Let's see when the PLA air defense lose patience and nerves and shoot down the planes, triggering a full scale armed confrontation.

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## Jlaw

Aqsuperman said:


> "We crossed thousand of kilometers from the other side of the globe just to bombed the fck outta of you, funded every organization or movement that can hurt you but dont you dare blame us about anything". Fun conclusion indeed.
> 
> So to go back to some relevant issues instead ideology, here is another assumption about the sudden return of the Chinese general, also relate to oil under the sea.
> 
> *Vietnam drills for oil in South China Sea*
> 
> Vietnam has begun drilling for oil in an area of the resource-rich South China Sea also claimed by China.
> 
> An oil industry consultant told the BBC that a drilling ship on contract to international firm Talisman-Vietnam was working off Vietnam's south-east coast.
> 
> This appears to be why a senior Chinese general cut short an official visit to Vietnam last month.
> 
> China claims almost all of the South China Sea, including reefs and islands also contested by other nations.
> 
> According to Ian Cross, of Singapore-based Moyes & Co, the drillship Deepsea Metro I, began to drill in an area of sea about 400km (250 miles) off the Vietnamese coast on 21 June.
> 
> It is likely that the news was kept secret because of its extreme sensitivity.
> 
> Other oil industry sources have told the BBC that Talisman-Vietnam was denied permission to drill over the past three years to avoid upsetting China.
> 
> It would appear that by taking such a bold move, the leadership in Hanoi is less concerned about such risks now.
> 
> The piece of seabed in question is known as Block 136-03 by Vietnam, but China calls it Wan-an Bei 21 and has leased out the same area to a different company. In 2014 the Chinese rights were bought by a Hong Kong-based company called Brightoil.
> 
> Two of the directors of Brightoil are senior members of the Chinese Communist Party.
> 
> Talisman-Vietnam was formerly owned by the Canadian company Talisman but since 2015 has been part of the Spanish-owned Repsol group.
> 
> Gen Fan Changlong, who is Vice-Chair of China's Central Military Commission, recently paid a visit to Madrid, where Repsol is based. Repsol has not responded to BBC questions about whether the Chinese authorities have made any protest to the company.
> 
> In 2014 coastguard vessels and other ships belonging to China and Vietnam confronted each other in a different area of the South China Sea, further north near the Paracel Islands.
> 
> Since then the two countries have tried to avoid confrontation. However, Vietnam has clearly decided that the risks of a crisis are relatively low.
> 
> So far the only casualty of Vietnam's new oil expedition has been a planned meeting of the annual Vietnam-China border defence friendship exchange.
> 
> That high-level meeting between the two countries' militaries was supposed to have taken place on the same day the Deepsea Metro I began drilling.
> 
> Instead, Gen Fan - who was due in Hanoi after his Madrid visit - flew home, citing problems with the "working arrangements".
> 
> Vietnam may have judged that with China currently promoting its "Belt and Road" initiative to the region and encouraging other countries to agree the new Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), at the same time as it is preparing for its crucial Communist Party congress, it would be unwilling to provoke a regional crisis.
> 
> There are no obvious signs of Chinese retaliation so far but we could see a tit-for-tat response with Beijing authorising a drilling operation in an area that Vietnam also claims. This, however, would take some time to organise.


@cirr @Kiss_of_the_Dragon @terranMarine @Beast no Chinese news on this?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Viet said:


> Two US B1 strategic bombers conduct reconnaissance flight over the Chinese made artificial islands. Let's see when the PLA air defense lose patience and nerves and shoot down the planes, triggering a full scale armed confrontation.
> 
> View attachment 409608
> 
> View attachment 409610



I don't have any doubt that you Viets are dreaming between two pillows for this to be happened, crisis = opportunity ...remember that, it will give perfect excuse for China to permanently station our warplanes in these Islands.



Jlaw said:


> @cirr @Kiss_of_the_Dragon @terranMarine @Beast no Chinese news on this?



is that a big deal...remember 981 oil rig


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## SEAISI

Can you source the news on this? The only ones I saw were bombers fly through SCS, not over the islands.


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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I don't have any doubt that you Viets are dreaming between two pillows for this to be happened, crisis = opportunity ...remember that, it will give perfect excuse for China to permanently station our warplanes in these Islands.
> 
> 
> 
> is that a big deal...remember 981 oil rig


Vietnam is drilling 250 miles from their coast. It's not their territory


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> Vietnam is drilling 250 miles from their coast. It's not their territory



Nah I don't have any worry, China will not sit idle, by moving our oil rig we can suck dry the entire area that Viet plan to exploit.


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## terranMarine

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Nah I don't have any worry, China will not sit idle, by moving our oil rig we can suck dry the entire area that Viet plan to exploit.



Yup China will respond, it's not a matter of IF but WHEN and HOW.


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## Oldman1

SEAISI said:


> Can you source the news on this? The only ones I saw were bombers fly through SCS, not over the islands.



Would it matter? Through or over the islands, China still claim it all as theirs.

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## SEAISI

Oldman1 said:


> Would it matter? Through or over the islands, China still claim it all as theirs.


Actually it does. China did not claim the entire SCS. They claim the islands within the 9 dash line.


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## Viet

Jlaw said:


> Vietnam is drilling 250 miles from their coast. It's not their territory


Vietnam as coastal country has the rights to drill for resources up to 350 miles from the baseline. Read Unclos.



SEAISI said:


> Actually it does. China did not claim the entire SCS. They claim the islands within the 9 dash line.


Nobody is interested of China claim. I can claim Singapore is mine because Vietnamese smugglers once discovered the island. Does it matter anything?

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## SEAISI

Viet said:


> Vietnam as coastal country has the rights to drill for resources up to 350 miles from the baseline. Read Unclos.
> 
> 
> Nobody is interested of China claim. I can claim Singapore is mine because Vietnamese smugglers once discovered the island. Does it matter anything?



I don't care if you care. I am merely pointing out the fallacy of your post. I.E. you lied about something and presented it as a fact.

When you lie, you loss credibility. When you loss credibility it makes whatever you say worthless.


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## Viet

SEAISI said:


> I don't care if you care. I am merely pointing out the fallacy of your post. I.E. you lied about something and presented it as a fact.
> 
> When you lie, you loss credibility. When you loss credibility it makes whatever you say worthless.


I have no idea what you are talking about.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Nah I don't have any worry, China will not sit idle, by moving our oil rig we can suck dry the entire area that Viet plan to exploit.


Do you believe you are the only one that has oil rigs? Our Spanish friend Repsol has begun the work on the $1.1 billion project.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Viet said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> 
> Do you believe you are the only one that has oil rigs? Our Spanish friend Repsol has begun the work on the $1.1 billion project.
> 
> View attachment 409624
> 
> View attachment 409625



No problem...let have a competition to see who will suck up the most of oil on this region


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> we can´t deploy warships to exercise in the Indian Ocean yet because someone would take advantage from the peaceful rise and rob our country. Give us 5 more years then we both could do shark hunting exercises in both the South China sea and Indian Ocean. in the meanwhile Indian surface warships and submarines are welcome to visit the Bay if there is a need to re-supply.


I am curious,what would happen in 5 years? Sounds like your country is preparing for something, any hint?


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## Viet

YuChen said:


> I am curious,what would happen in 5 years? Sounds like your country is preparing for something, any hint?


You sound like a nice guy so I'll give you a honest answer. The Vietnamese people are peace loving folks but have little humor for hooligans, least to a hooligan who calls us ungrateful southern monkeys. In 5 years we not only slam a fist in his face, breaking his nose but in addition we break his leg. hint? the Mongols were arrogant they thought being invincible, starting aggression with three invasions with the support of chinese mercenaries. They believed Vietnam was a walkover but at the end of the day, our roads and rivers were scattered by their dead bodies.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> You sound like a nice guy so I'll give you a honest answer. The Vietnamese people are peace loving folks but have little humor for hooligans, least to a hooligan who calls us ungrateful southern monkeys. In 5 years we not only slam a fist in his face, breaking his nose but in addition we break his leg. hint? the Mongols were arrogant they thought being invincible, starting aggression with three invasions with the support of chinese mercenaries. They believed Vietnam was a walkover but at the end of the day, our roads and rivers were scattered by their dead bodies.


Ridiculous.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam And India To Spoil China's South China Sea Ambitions*
Jul 7, 2017 @ 07:50 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...uth-china-sea-ambitions/?ref=yfp#35353d791af7

Vietnam and India are teaming up to tame China’s ambitions to control the South China Sea and the riches that are hidden beneath.

Early this week, Vietnam granted Indian oil firm ONGC Videsh a two-year extension to explore oil block 128, according to a Reuters report.

China considers the South China Sea its own sea, and is building artificial islands, defying international tribunal rulings – including one favoring the Philippines. While Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte isn't prepared to stop Beijing, Vietnam – which also claims parts of the waterway – seems to be.

Vietnam’s and India’s challenge to China comes at a time when tensions between New Delhi and Beijing have flared on several fronts. Like the Dokalam area of Sikkim, where India has been trying to block China’s efforts to build a road, and where in reply Beijing has warned New Delhi that it is risking to suffer "greater losses" than 1962.

Then there’s the Pakistani regions claimed by India and crossed by the China Pacific Economic Corridor (CPEC). And the Malacca Straits, where India sent warships recently--most of China's energy supplies and trade passes through this waterway.


Meanwhile, India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has been traveling around the globe to enlist old and new friends and allies to New Delhi’s cause.

So far, financial markets in the region do not seem that concerned, at least for now, focusing on the economic fundamentals rather than the geopolitics of the region. But things may change as the US Navy and Air Force have stepped up their presence in the region, drawing angry protests from Beijing.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Viet said:


> You sound like a nice guy so I'll give you a honest answer. The Vietnamese people are peace loving folks but have little humor for hooligans, least to a hooligan who calls us ungrateful southern monkeys. In 5 years we not only slam a fist in his face, breaking his nose but in addition we break his leg. hint? the Mongols were arrogant they thought being invincible, starting aggression with three invasions with the support of chinese mercenaries. They believed Vietnam was a walkover but at the end of the day, our roads and rivers were scattered by their dead bodies.



And that why red river name was being born?  don't worry we will clean up the mess in this river.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam And India To Spoil China's South China Sea Ambitions*
> Jul 7, 2017 @ 07:50 PM
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosm...uth-china-sea-ambitions/?ref=yfp#35353d791af7
> 
> Vietnam and India are teaming up to tame China’s ambitions to control the South China Sea and the riches that are hidden beneath.
> 
> Early this week, Vietnam granted Indian oil firm ONGC Videsh a two-year extension to explore oil block 128, according to a Reuters report.
> 
> China considers the South China Sea its own sea, and is building artificial islands, defying international tribunal rulings – including one favoring the Philippines. While Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte isn't prepared to stop Beijing, Vietnam – which also claims parts of the waterway – seems to be.
> 
> Vietnam’s and India’s challenge to China comes at a time when tensions between New Delhi and Beijing have flared on several fronts. Like the Dokalam area of Sikkim, where India has been trying to block China’s efforts to build a road, and where in reply Beijing has warned New Delhi that it is risking to suffer "greater losses" than 1962.
> 
> Then there’s the Pakistani regions claimed by India and crossed by the China Pacific Economic Corridor (CPEC). And the Malacca Straits, where India sent warships recently--most of China's energy supplies and trade passes through this waterway.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi has been traveling around the globe to enlist old and new friends and allies to New Delhi’s cause.
> 
> So far, financial markets in the region do not seem that concerned, at least for now, focusing on the economic fundamentals rather than the geopolitics of the region. But things may change as the US Navy and Air Force have stepped up their presence in the region, drawing angry protests from Beijing.



Actually Doklam plateau is in Bhutan. The writer don't know the geography.

The standoff going on in Bhutanese territory. Not in Sikkim.

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## Endurance

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/883631332387151872

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## gambit

Farhan Bohra said:


> US never ratified Protocol 1 &2 of Geneva Convention. What a great hypocrisy of yours.
> 
> Now you throwing treaties which not followed by your country?
> And tell me when your country going to bomb Saudi Arabia under Geneva Convention?
> 
> Now I really doubt you are even a US citizen, who even dont know some basic facts about your own country.


You might want to look somewhere else...in the GC...


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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Actually Doklam plateau is in Bhutan. The writer don't know the geography.
> 
> The standoff going on in Bhutanese territory. Not in Sikkim.



Yes, I very much like how India took the courage to enter Bhutanese territory and stopped the chinese road construction.The chinese didn't expect that. India has been way too soft with China, the chinese hit India at every opportunity, Its time to retaliate in kind. Can't negotiate with these people, any agreement with them is not worth the paper that is written on as they have just shown by saying that the treaty with UK about Hong Kong is no longer relevant and they are not bound by it.

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## Viet

Launch of new CSD 500 dredger class manufactured by Long Hải - Nam Phương shipyard, with the support from our Dutch friend the Damen Shipyard. Vietnam island construction program will be accelerated a bit. Everyone builds in the SC sea, so there is no reason why we shall hesitate. Giant man made islands with airfields, hangar, housing, sport facilities and other stuffs.

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## Viet

Welcomed to the city hall by Hamburg mayor Olaf Scholz. The city that hosts G20 summit is the richest in Germany.










A walk in the city. The lady in red is the spouse of PM Phuc. The women in head scarf is the wife of PM of the Turkey.






In blue ao dai in the city hall

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> we can´t deploy warships to exercise in the Indian Ocean yet because someone would take advantage from the peaceful rise and rob our country. Give us 5 more years then we both could do shark hunting exercises in both the South China sea and Indian Ocean. in the meanwhile Indian surface warships and submarines are welcome to visit the Bay if there is a need to re-supply.



Yup talking future when Vietnam acquires more blue water capabilities....which is inevitable.

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## Svantana

bilateral meeting between republic Indonesian president and prime minister of socialist republic of Vietnam in Hamburg

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Yup talking future when Vietnam acquires more blue water capabilities....which is inevitable.


yup too we need money and expertise to develop a navy that rules the waves protecting our country and friends. the way to go: the people of VN and India do more in economy and defense. India imports $60b products and services last year from China, you can save a lot of money if you buy from VN instead. we have things you need but cheaper. the Chinese believe they are rich and have reached the status of a superpower. they don´t need money, but poor Vietnam does. we can import T90 tanks, submarines and destroyers from India, while you can import everything you need, from arga fishery products to machines to computers and smartphones. win-win for both VN and India.

made in Vietnam: 3 giant cargo container cranes being unloaded in Bharat Mumbai Container Terminal 







previously we exported 8 cranes to Saudi Arabia.

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## Carlosa

*Three PLAN Officers May Have Just Revealed What China Wants in the South China Sea*
July 9, 2017
http://nationalinterest.org/feature...ust-revealed-what-china-wants-21458?page=show





Chinese strategy in the South China Sea is expansionary in aim, incremental by design and realist in orientation.

Ryan MartinsonKatsuya Yamamoto
July 9, 2017

Earlier this year, Kyodo News published a tantalizing summary of a Chinese article that seemed to offer rare insights into Beijing’s intentions in the South China Sea. Unfortunately, Kyodo’s report was too vague to be fully appreciated, or long-remembered. We have tracked down the original. It is well worth a closer look.

The article comes from a special class of periodical published by the Chinese military for “internal distribution.” These are not classified documents per se. Rather, they are teaching materials and scholarly works written for a select audience. Due to this restricted access, these works are both candid and extremely authoritative. As such, they offer invaluable insights into the thinking of the Chinese military and party-state.

This particular article was printed in a mid-2016 issue of _Naval Studies_ (海军军事学术), one of the most important “internal distribution” periodicals on maritime affairs in China. Run by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Naval Research Institute, it is a bimonthly scholarly journal that delves into a range of topics on naval strategy.

The article is titled “Military Crises in the South China Sea: Analysis, Assessment, and Responses.” It was written by three Chinese naval officers: Lt. Comm. Jin Jing, a researcher at the Naval Research Institute, and Commanders Xu Hui and Wang Ning, both political officers from the PLA Navy South Sea Fleet. We assume that analysis published by these three mid-level officers in this forum is orthodox, honest and very well-informed.

The article comprises three sections. Part one analyzes the current situation in the South China Sea, providing context for discussion of future military crises. Part two examines the likely characteristics of any given crisis. The article concludes with policy recommendations.

Jin, Xu and Wang begin with strategic context. Similar to analyses published in open sources, they blame the United States for much of the tension in the South China Sea. Since 2015, the authors write, the U.S. military has ramped up its provocative behavior near Chinese-occupied features in the Spratly Archipelago—the large group of islands claimed (either wholly or in part) by China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei. It has accompanied aircraft carrier, bomber and submarine patrols with “public opinion offensives” (舆论攻势) to discredit Beijing. Designed to “probe” (刺探) China’s red lines, these activities have had a “baleful effect on the security situation in the South China Sea.”

The authors write, the United States has long “stuck its nose in” (插手) South China Sea affairs. But for years, it only intervened from behind the scenes. It did not publicly declare a position on any of the disputes themselves. American military operations in these waters were always fairly restrained. However, since 2015, the “balance of initiative” in the South China Sea has gradually “tilted towards China.” As a result, the United States has grown “restless” (躁动), and become more assertive.

China’s Belt and Road Initiative has also agitated the Americans. Citing a bookpublished by the late Zbigniew Brzezinski, they claim that the primary task of American strategy in the twenty-first century is to prevent the rise of any state that might “challenge American hegemony on the Eurasian continent.” As such, China’s Belt and Road Initiative—which spreads PRC influence across Eurasia—is certain to “touch a raw nerve in the American hegemon” (触摸到美国霸权的敏感神经). As an important but troubled segment in the twenty-first century maritime Silk Road, the South China Sea makes a fine target for American subversion.

In the future, China can expect tense interactions with the U.S. military, the Japanese Self-Defense Forces (whose direct involvement in the South China Sea is “inevitable”), and Southeast Asian states. The authors survey these developments and conclude that there is a “severe possibility” of a maritime crisis in in the South China Sea. This point is hardly controversial.

What is striking is that the authors are extremely sanguine about how such a crisis might play out. In their view, the scale and intensity of any future crisis could be kept under control, and the “possibility of a crisis leading to a military conflict or a war is not at all large.” The U.S.-China relationship will continue to be characterized by a tendency to “struggle but not split” (斗而不破). The two countries maintain strong ties and common interests in important areas: economics, politics and global issues. These links will prevent crisis escalation. Also on the plus side, the authors point out that in encounters at sea both militaries are fairly restrained.

Neither side seeks a military conflict. For China’s part, it will continue its strategy of balancing assertive rights-protection activities with actions to maintain stability in its relations with other states. It will not allow matters to get out of hand. After all, China needs time to “digest and consolidate” (消化巩固) its recent gains in the South China Sea. Chinese leaders have no desire to watch a military crisis escalate into a war, which would imperil the current “period of strategic opportunity” to focus on domestic affairs.

The authors reckon that the United States will remain neutral on the South China Sea disputes. It merely seeks to ensure freedom of navigation and maintain a deterrent posture. Moreover, the United States is not yet in a position to pick a fight: its “Rebalance to Asia” remains incomplete. Meanwhile, the small states rimming the South China Sea have no appetite for military conflict. With newly constructed facilities in the Spratly Islands, China has gained the strategic initiative (战略主动权). This has resulted in “a certain deterrent effect on other claimant states.” In sum, armed conflict in the South China Sea can basically be ruled out.

Part two examines some of the specific scenarios China might face. Any crisis could involve a number of possible countries. These include both other claimants and extra-regional powers. Aside from the United States and Japan, the authors believe that India and Australia might also get involved (介入) in a crisis. These states would seize on the opportunity to clamp down on (钳制), repress (阻遏), and contain (牵制) China.

In the last part of their paper, Jin, Xu and Wang outline a number of steps China should take to strengthen its ability to handle future crises. First, it should use political, economic and diplomatic means to improve relations with Southeast Asian states, thereby “dividing and disrupting” (分化瓦解) any potential alliances directed against China, creating a favorable strategic environment, and reducing the incentives (诱因) for crises. This is the soft edge of Chinese strategy. At the same time, China should take steps to highlight its red lines (亮明底线), engage in demonstrations of power (展示实力) and adopt other coercive measures to deter military crises from taking place.

The authors readily acknowledge what Chinese leaders fiercely deny in public: that “the struggle in the South China Sea is not just about contention over rights and interests. More than that, it is a struggle for dominance (主导权) in regional security affairs.” Given the stakes, China should use all of the means at its disposal—political, economic, diplomatic, legal, public opinion and military.

Jin, Xu and Wang endorse China’s current approach to handling disputes in the South China Sea. They describe it as “being both principled and flexible” (原则性与灵活性相统一). This expression they place in quotes, suggesting a doctrinal origin. Actions to assert Chinese prerogatives must remain in “dynamic balance” with those designed to calm tensions. This is the great balancing act that has long sat at the core of Chinese maritime dispute strategy, and which explains the incongruities and pendular swings in Chinese behavior.

China’s strategy must remain proactive. China should continue to engage in what they call protracted war (持久战), according to the authors. By this, they mean prosecuting a “long-term, patient and comprehensive contest to master the strategic initiative” (掌握战略主动). The trends favor China. In their view, “after the expansion of Chinese facilities in the Spratlys, China gained a certain initiative in terms of military security. As time goes on, the balance of power will tilt in China’s favor.” This ensures the conditions for China to continue its current strategy of placing fishing, oil/gas and law enforcement forces on the front lines, which the authors pithily describe as “sending civilians first, and following them with the military” (民进军随) and “concealing the military among civilians” (以民掩军).

The article concludes by reminding readers how a future crisis, if handled right, might actually present fresh opportunities. China’s recent past teems with such examples. Jin, Xu, and Wang explain that the struggles against Japan near the Senkaku Islands and the Philippines at Scarborough Shoal “show that actively using crises and adroitly exploiting crises, mastering crises and even proactively manufacturing crises (主动制造危机), enable China to safeguard its interests. Only by taking proactive measures can China achieve ultimate victory in this contest.”

Crises provide pretexts to punish other states, another benefit not lost on the authors. Jin, Hui and Wang show no scruples about recommending that their country “savagely strike others where it hurts” (狠狠敲打其痛处). After all, they write, some claimants must be sacrificed to teach lessons to others and discourage collusion, that is, “kill a chicken to scare a monkey” (杀鸡骇猴).

Lastly, China should play an active role in regional nontraditional security affairs and disaster relief efforts. The authors write, such activities would serve to “shape a China-dominated (以我为主导) South China Sea security situation and crisis response coordination mechanism.” In the end, this too could help create conditions for the final resolution of the South Chinese Sea problem.

Readers will draw their own conclusions from the above summary. For us, this article confirms that Chinese strategy in the South China Sea is expansionary in aim, incremental by design and realist in orientation. It also validates the judgment that Beijing’s strategic considerations are largely focused on the United States—the only other state that can disrupt China’s plans or compete with it for the regional influence it desires. This article offers little discussion about other South China Sea claimants, presumably because China’s military and economic strength already gives them few options.

With this article, we gain valuable insights into the strategic rationale behind China’s decision to construct massive new facilities in the Spratly Islands, a topic still rarely discussed in broader Chinese discourse. To the extent that Jin, Hui and Wang reflect mainstream thinking in the PLA Navy, their views suggest that the new bases were always intended to alter the military balance in the South China Sea—regardless of how Chinese diplomats prefer to highlight their civilian character. Chinese decisionmakers probably believe that the balance now tilts strongly in China’s favor, and this is unlikely to change until American completes its great “pivot” to Asia, if it ever does.

We take some comfort in the trio’s apparent desire to avoid armed conflict in the South China Sea. However, their attitudes suggest that the Chinese military may be too cocksure about its own ability to manage a military crisis at sea. Particularly worrisome, America is the assumed adversary, but never do the authors even mention the role nuclear weapons might play in a crisis.

Though this article possesses a rare combination of candor and authority, it does not close the book on our quest to understand Chinese intentions in the South China Sea. It represents just one source of information, Chinese intentions are evolving, and the PLA Navy is not the only Chinese actor operating there. It does, however, offer a very rare window into how the Chinese navy understands national objectives in the South China Sea, frames its own strategy and evaluates future options.

_Ryan Martinson is an assistant professor at the China Maritime Studies Institute of the U.S. Naval War College. CAPT Katsuya Yamamoto is the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Liaison Officer and International Military Professor at the U.S. Naval War College. The opinions expressed do not reflect the assessments of the U.S. Navy or the JMSDF._

_Image: China's aircraft carrier Liaoning sails into Hong Kong, China July 7, 2017. REUTERS/Greg Torode_

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Three PLAN Officers May Have Just Revealed What China Wants in the South China Sea*
> July 9, 2017
> http://nationalinterest.org/feature...ust-revealed-what-china-wants-21458?page=show
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese strategy in the South China Sea is expansionary in aim, incremental by design and realist in orientation.
> 
> Ryan MartinsonKatsuya Yamamoto
> July 9, 2017
> 
> Earlier this year, Kyodo News published a tantalizing summary of a Chinese article that seemed to offer rare insights into Beijing’s intentions in the South China Sea. Unfortunately, Kyodo’s report was too vague to be fully appreciated, or long-remembered. We have tracked down the original. It is well worth a closer look.
> 
> The article comes from a special class of periodical published by the Chinese military for “internal distribution.” These are not classified documents per se. Rather, they are teaching materials and scholarly works written for a select audience. Due to this restricted access, these works are both candid and extremely authoritative. As such, they offer invaluable insights into the thinking of the Chinese military and party-state.
> 
> This particular article was printed in a mid-2016 issue of _Naval Studies_ (海军军事学术), one of the most important “internal distribution” periodicals on maritime affairs in China. Run by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Naval Research Institute, it is a bimonthly scholarly journal that delves into a range of topics on naval strategy.
> 
> The article is titled “Military Crises in the South China Sea: Analysis, Assessment, and Responses.” It was written by three Chinese naval officers: Lt. Comm. Jin Jing, a researcher at the Naval Research Institute, and Commanders Xu Hui and Wang Ning, both political officers from the PLA Navy South Sea Fleet. We assume that analysis published by these three mid-level officers in this forum is orthodox, honest and very well-informed.
> 
> The article comprises three sections. Part one analyzes the current situation in the South China Sea, providing context for discussion of future military crises. Part two examines the likely characteristics of any given crisis. The article concludes with policy recommendations.
> 
> Jin, Xu and Wang begin with strategic context. Similar to analyses published in open sources, they blame the United States for much of the tension in the South China Sea. Since 2015, the authors write, the U.S. military has ramped up its provocative behavior near Chinese-occupied features in the Spratly Archipelago—the large group of islands claimed (either wholly or in part) by China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei. It has accompanied aircraft carrier, bomber and submarine patrols with “public opinion offensives” (舆论攻势) to discredit Beijing. Designed to “probe” (刺探) China’s red lines, these activities have had a “baleful effect on the security situation in the South China Sea.”
> 
> The authors write, the United States has long “stuck its nose in” (插手) South China Sea affairs. But for years, it only intervened from behind the scenes. It did not publicly declare a position on any of the disputes themselves. American military operations in these waters were always fairly restrained. However, since 2015, the “balance of initiative” in the South China Sea has gradually “tilted towards China.” As a result, the United States has grown “restless” (躁动), and become more assertive.
> 
> China’s Belt and Road Initiative has also agitated the Americans. Citing a bookpublished by the late Zbigniew Brzezinski, they claim that the primary task of American strategy in the twenty-first century is to prevent the rise of any state that might “challenge American hegemony on the Eurasian continent.” As such, China’s Belt and Road Initiative—which spreads PRC influence across Eurasia—is certain to “touch a raw nerve in the American hegemon” (触摸到美国霸权的敏感神经). As an important but troubled segment in the twenty-first century maritime Silk Road, the South China Sea makes a fine target for American subversion.
> 
> In the future, China can expect tense interactions with the U.S. military, the Japanese Self-Defense Forces (whose direct involvement in the South China Sea is “inevitable”), and Southeast Asian states. The authors survey these developments and conclude that there is a “severe possibility” of a maritime crisis in in the South China Sea. This point is hardly controversial.
> 
> What is striking is that the authors are extremely sanguine about how such a crisis might play out. In their view, the scale and intensity of any future crisis could be kept under control, and the “possibility of a crisis leading to a military conflict or a war is not at all large.” The U.S.-China relationship will continue to be characterized by a tendency to “struggle but not split” (斗而不破). The two countries maintain strong ties and common interests in important areas: economics, politics and global issues. These links will prevent crisis escalation. Also on the plus side, the authors point out that in encounters at sea both militaries are fairly restrained.
> 
> Neither side seeks a military conflict. For China’s part, it will continue its strategy of balancing assertive rights-protection activities with actions to maintain stability in its relations with other states. It will not allow matters to get out of hand. After all, China needs time to “digest and consolidate” (消化巩固) its recent gains in the South China Sea. Chinese leaders have no desire to watch a military crisis escalate into a war, which would imperil the current “period of strategic opportunity” to focus on domestic affairs.
> 
> The authors reckon that the United States will remain neutral on the South China Sea disputes. It merely seeks to ensure freedom of navigation and maintain a deterrent posture. Moreover, the United States is not yet in a position to pick a fight: its “Rebalance to Asia” remains incomplete. Meanwhile, the small states rimming the South China Sea have no appetite for military conflict. With newly constructed facilities in the Spratly Islands, China has gained the strategic initiative (战略主动权). This has resulted in “a certain deterrent effect on other claimant states.” In sum, armed conflict in the South China Sea can basically be ruled out.
> 
> Part two examines some of the specific scenarios China might face. Any crisis could involve a number of possible countries. These include both other claimants and extra-regional powers. Aside from the United States and Japan, the authors believe that India and Australia might also get involved (介入) in a crisis. These states would seize on the opportunity to clamp down on (钳制), repress (阻遏), and contain (牵制) China.
> 
> In the last part of their paper, Jin, Xu and Wang outline a number of steps China should take to strengthen its ability to handle future crises. First, it should use political, economic and diplomatic means to improve relations with Southeast Asian states, thereby “dividing and disrupting” (分化瓦解) any potential alliances directed against China, creating a favorable strategic environment, and reducing the incentives (诱因) for crises. This is the soft edge of Chinese strategy. At the same time, China should take steps to highlight its red lines (亮明底线), engage in demonstrations of power (展示实力) and adopt other coercive measures to deter military crises from taking place.
> 
> The authors readily acknowledge what Chinese leaders fiercely deny in public: that “the struggle in the South China Sea is not just about contention over rights and interests. More than that, it is a struggle for dominance (主导权) in regional security affairs.” Given the stakes, China should use all of the means at its disposal—political, economic, diplomatic, legal, public opinion and military.
> 
> Jin, Xu and Wang endorse China’s current approach to handling disputes in the South China Sea. They describe it as “being both principled and flexible” (原则性与灵活性相统一). This expression they place in quotes, suggesting a doctrinal origin. Actions to assert Chinese prerogatives must remain in “dynamic balance” with those designed to calm tensions. This is the great balancing act that has long sat at the core of Chinese maritime dispute strategy, and which explains the incongruities and pendular swings in Chinese behavior.
> 
> China’s strategy must remain proactive. China should continue to engage in what they call protracted war (持久战), according to the authors. By this, they mean prosecuting a “long-term, patient and comprehensive contest to master the strategic initiative” (掌握战略主动). The trends favor China. In their view, “after the expansion of Chinese facilities in the Spratlys, China gained a certain initiative in terms of military security. As time goes on, the balance of power will tilt in China’s favor.” This ensures the conditions for China to continue its current strategy of placing fishing, oil/gas and law enforcement forces on the front lines, which the authors pithily describe as “sending civilians first, and following them with the military” (民进军随) and “concealing the military among civilians” (以民掩军).
> 
> The article concludes by reminding readers how a future crisis, if handled right, might actually present fresh opportunities. China’s recent past teems with such examples. Jin, Xu, and Wang explain that the struggles against Japan near the Senkaku Islands and the Philippines at Scarborough Shoal “show that actively using crises and adroitly exploiting crises, mastering crises and even proactively manufacturing crises (主动制造危机), enable China to safeguard its interests. Only by taking proactive measures can China achieve ultimate victory in this contest.”
> 
> Crises provide pretexts to punish other states, another benefit not lost on the authors. Jin, Hui and Wang show no scruples about recommending that their country “savagely strike others where it hurts” (狠狠敲打其痛处). After all, they write, some claimants must be sacrificed to teach lessons to others and discourage collusion, that is, “kill a chicken to scare a monkey” (杀鸡骇猴).
> 
> Lastly, China should play an active role in regional nontraditional security affairs and disaster relief efforts. The authors write, such activities would serve to “shape a China-dominated (以我为主导) South China Sea security situation and crisis response coordination mechanism.” In the end, this too could help create conditions for the final resolution of the South Chinese Sea problem.
> 
> Readers will draw their own conclusions from the above summary. For us, this article confirms that Chinese strategy in the South China Sea is expansionary in aim, incremental by design and realist in orientation. It also validates the judgment that Beijing’s strategic considerations are largely focused on the United States—the only other state that can disrupt China’s plans or compete with it for the regional influence it desires. This article offers little discussion about other South China Sea claimants, presumably because China’s military and economic strength already gives them few options.
> 
> With this article, we gain valuable insights into the strategic rationale behind China’s decision to construct massive new facilities in the Spratly Islands, a topic still rarely discussed in broader Chinese discourse. To the extent that Jin, Hui and Wang reflect mainstream thinking in the PLA Navy, their views suggest that the new bases were always intended to alter the military balance in the South China Sea—regardless of how Chinese diplomats prefer to highlight their civilian character. Chinese decisionmakers probably believe that the balance now tilts strongly in China’s favor, and this is unlikely to change until American completes its great “pivot” to Asia, if it ever does.
> 
> We take some comfort in the trio’s apparent desire to avoid armed conflict in the South China Sea. However, their attitudes suggest that the Chinese military may be too cocksure about its own ability to manage a military crisis at sea. Particularly worrisome, America is the assumed adversary, but never do the authors even mention the role nuclear weapons might play in a crisis.
> 
> Though this article possesses a rare combination of candor and authority, it does not close the book on our quest to understand Chinese intentions in the South China Sea. It represents just one source of information, Chinese intentions are evolving, and the PLA Navy is not the only Chinese actor operating there. It does, however, offer a very rare window into how the Chinese navy understands national objectives in the South China Sea, frames its own strategy and evaluates future options.
> 
> _Ryan Martinson is an assistant professor at the China Maritime Studies Institute of the U.S. Naval War College. CAPT Katsuya Yamamoto is the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Liaison Officer and International Military Professor at the U.S. Naval War College. The opinions expressed do not reflect the assessments of the U.S. Navy or the JMSDF._
> 
> _Image: China's aircraft carrier Liaoning sails into Hong Kong, China July 7, 2017. REUTERS/Greg Torode_


Normally I would not waste too much time in reading Chinese strategic papers because it is pretty much predictable. And the opinions of the writers Jin, Xu and Wang are not different to other pieces we have known. Chinese strategic thinking is almost primitive to non existent. In context of SC sea they consider all neighbor countries as negligible forces, only the United States is worth to be considered.

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## Viet

*
Visiting the Netherlands*

Besides opening a new embassy in the country, a series of agreements will expectedly be signed between Vietnam and the Netherlands. My wish would be the Dutch transferring of technology of building naval frigates and destroyers.











*Apec summit*

The public in Germany viewed the G20 summit as a big disaster, an event with much propaganda and little worthy outcome, with ugly street battle scenes. Especially the presence of Donald Trump in the city was a provocation for many. Some lessons Vietnam security forces can learn from Germany how it deals with riots, demonstrations and terror threats for the upcoming APEC summit in Da Nang city. Just few months to go before Donald Trump lands in the city.

German riot police in military gears

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Is Chasing India To Escape The Grip Of China*

Ralph Jennings , 

CONTRIBUTOR

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphj...in-a-new-gambit-to-resist-china/#1e36e4da5f59

Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.






India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi (L) shakes hands with Vietnam's Communist Party Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong during a meeting at the VCP headquarters in Hanoi on September 3, 2016. (HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/Getty Images)

China and Vietnam have talked peacefully over the past year about cooperating despite a bitter, decades-old maritime sovereignty dispute. China needed to reconcile because a world arbitration court ruled in July 2016 against the legal basis for its claims to most of a 3.5 million-square-kilometer sea that overlaps waters heavily used by Vietnam. Vietnam wanted to talk because it depends so heavily on China’s economy, its top source of trade as of early 2017. Leaders in Hanoi weren’t surewhether U.S. President Donald Trump would help Vietnam military the way his predecessor Barack Obama had.

Now Vietnam is pushing for stronger ties with India. The two countries have explored together for oil in the South China Sea -- the one Beijing believes is mostly its own -- since at least 2014 when the overseas subsidiary of India’s state-run firm ONGC and PetroVietnam Exploration Production Corp. signed an agreement for exploring three oil blocks despite bristling in Beijing, Indian media reported. That cooperation was extended last year and again this year.

Vietnamese Foreign Minister Phạm Bình Minh told Indian President Pranab Mukherjee last week on a visit to New Delhi that he wanted to “step up” a year-old strategic comprehensive partnership, Viet Nam News reported. The partnership should contribute to “stability, security and prosperity,” Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was quoted saying last year. The Vietnamese prime minister had suggested in April that two-way trade should reach $15 billion by 2020. Vietnam-China trade totaled $95.8 billion in 2015, per this news report. 

But the Vietnamese have resented China over centuries of territorial disputes including a war in the 1970s and a boat-ramming incident three years ago over a Chinese oil rig in the disputed sea.

Smart diplomacy

Courting India means smart diplomacy for Vietnam. India has the world’s fourth-strongest armed forces, research database GlobalFirePower.com says, offering a deterrent against Chinese influence over Vietnam. India offers Vietnam credit to buy weapons and trains Vietnamese sailors, says Trung Nguyen, international relations dean at Ho Chi Minh City University of Social Sciences and Humanities. The two had agreed earlier to accelerate patrol boat production for Vietnam and India has said it would bolster naval training.

“One of the most fruitful areas that Vietnam is benefiting from relations with India is in defense cooperation,” Nguyen says. “India's possession of some technological transfers in weapon production from Russia is also what Vietnam is looking to, to upgrade its stockpile.”

Vietnam, which also signed a 33-point partnership declaration with India in 2007, has championed relations with that country as well as with Japan and Russia “to avoid being caught in the middle of strategic rivalry between a rising China and the United States,” Carl Thayer, emeritus professor of politics at the University of New South Wales in Australia, argues in a 2016 paper. Vietnamese leaders are ill at ease about Washington’s exit from the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal, a would-be boon to Vietnamese exports, as well as Hanoi’s uncertainty about continuity of U.S. defense aid.

India, which feels its own squeeze from China’s growing military and economic influence, values the Vietnam relationship as a way to keep Beijing in check, scholars such as this one with the China Policy Institute in the United Kingdom say. India calls closer ties with Vietnam part of its Act East policy. 

“Modi has been seeking stronger relationships with states that have ongoing disputes with China on multiple fronts,” the institute scholar says. “Clearly, Vietnam has emerged as a pivotal state...as a strategic partner in countering China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea and in the Indian Ocean region.”

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## AViet

Vietnam is chasing India? I think it is India who is chasing Vietnam. Who care about India in Vietnam? Just take a look at every media sources.


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## Nilgiri

AViet said:


> Vietnam is chasing India? I think it is India who is chasing Vietnam. Who care about India in Vietnam? Just take a look at every media sources.



Don't worry we believe you more than Vietnam's own govt ministers and leaders.

Why make a big deal out of an article headline too? Its the content that matters more. Anything to debate there?

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## Viet

Signing an agreement with the Dutch government led by Mark Rutte: Vietnam Coast Guard is to receive 6 offshore patrol vessels from the Damen shipyard. More details follow later.

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## AViet

Nilgiri said:


> Don't worry we believe you more than Vietnam's own govt ministers and leaders.
> 
> Why make a big deal out of an article headline too? Its the content that matters more. Anything to debate there?



Fed up with the bragging nature of Indian for last 8 years on this forum.
Weapons Vietnam bought from India: zero
Investment from India: almost zero.
Trade between the two countries: increasing, but still smaller than trade between Vietnam with Laos+Cambodia.

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## Viet

AViet said:


> Fed up with the bragging nature of Indian for last 8 years on this forum.
> Weapons Vietnam bought from India: zero
> Investment from India: almost zero.
> Trade between the two countries: increasing, but still smaller than trade between Vietnam with Laos+Cambodia.


Bro no need to say such thing. Trade and investment with China have started from zero, haven't they? now reached a considerable level but far below what should be. As for weapons how many pieces of weapons have we received from our Chinese brothers and sisters. Correct. Zero.

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## Aqsuperman

VPN amphibious assault exercise. A bit limited in scope andnot a lot of heavy equipment involved.

HQ-513, Ex-Polnocny class ship armed with AK-230 and Ogon 18 rocket launchers











PT-76s prepare to disembark






Deploying 






After the rocket barrage and PT-76 successfully suppressed the beachhead, lighter BTR-60 with infantry will follow

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## Viet

Greeting Capt. Lex Walker, commander of destroyer squadron 7 of US Pacific Fleet. The US apparently follows a policy of gradual escalation.

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## Nilgiri

AViet said:


> Fed up with the bragging nature of Indian for last 8 years on this forum.
> Weapons Vietnam bought from India: zero
> Investment from India: almost zero.
> Trade between the two countries: increasing, but still smaller than trade between Vietnam with Laos+Cambodia.



Author of the Forbes article is not Indian. Like I said if you got something to specific to say about the actual content and points raised, I am all ears.

=============

As for your trade figures, I suggest you update a bit on them:

https://comtrade.un.org/data/

2015:

Vietnam - Cambodia trade = 3.4 billion USD

Vietnam - Laos trade = 1 billion USD

Vietnam - India trade = 5 billion USD

2016:

Vietnam - India trade = 9 billion USD

Vietnam - Cambodia trade = 1.6 billion USD

Vietnam - Laos trade = 0.9 billion USD

================

As for investment, its only going to really increase from India once we are double the economic size we are now. Our equity on economic basis needs much more careful management compared to massively surplus countries. But there is much cooperation we can offer in many other fronts in the time being. Trade and investment are definitely important to a relationship, but there is much more to it than that.

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## AViet

Viet said:


> Bro no need to say such thing. Trade and investment with China have started from zero, haven't they? now reached a considerable level but far below what should be. As for weapons how many pieces of weapons have we received from our Chinese brothers and sisters. Correct. Zero.



Thank. I always try to ignore Indian comments as much as possible.


Nilgiri said:


> Author of the Forbes article is not Indian. Like I said if you got something to specific to say about the actual content and points raised, I am all ears.
> 
> =============
> 
> As for your trade figures, I suggest you update a bit on them:
> 
> https://comtrade.un.org/data/
> 
> 2015:
> 
> Vietnam - Cambodia trade = 3.4 billion USD
> 
> Vietnam - Laos trade = 1 billion USD
> 
> Vietnam - India trade = 5 billion USD
> 
> 2016:
> 
> Vietnam - India trade = 9 billion USD
> 
> Vietnam - Cambodia trade = 1.6 billion USD
> 
> Vietnam - Laos trade = 0.9 billion USD
> 
> ================
> 
> As for investment, its only going to really increase from India once we are double the economic size we are now. Our equity on economic basis needs much more careful management compared to massively surplus countries. But there is much cooperation we can offer in many other fronts in the time being. Trade and investment are definitely important to a relationship, but there is much more to it than that.



Where did you find that Vietnam - India trade = 9 billions in 2016, while there are articles on Vietnam media saying that trade is going to reach $7.4 billions in 2017.

http://laodong.com.vn/thi-truong/th...du-kien-dat-74-ti-usd-vao-cuoi-nam-671937.bld

And Vietnam - Cambodia trade in 2016 reached $3 billions, not 1.6 billions

https://www.baomoi.com/viet-nam-campuchia-phan-dau-kim-ngach-thuong-mai-dat-5-ty-usd/c/21774693.epi

That made all your remaining data and your argument baseless, as usual as any argument with an Indian.

Early this year, Indian bragged about India GDP surpassed the UK based on some vague data source. I said congratulation to them, but added that wait and see until there is concrete evidence. It turned out that India had not surpassed UK at all.

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## sinait

AViet said:


> Fed up with the bragging nature of Indian for last 8 years on this forum.
> Weapons Vietnam bought from India: zero
> Investment from India: almost zero.
> Trade between the two countries: increasing, but still smaller than trade between Vietnam with Laos+Cambodia.


Agreed.
After 2 years on this forum, I get very negative view of India and Indians(from India)
.


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## fadine

Vietnam needs India. Bilateral trade between Vietnam and India will increase, no one can change that.

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## Viet

AViet said:


> Thank. I always try to ignore Indian comments as much as possible.
> 
> 
> Where did you find that Vietnam - India trade = 9 billions in 2016, while there are articles on Vietnam media saying that trade is going to reach $7.4 billions in 2017.
> 
> http://laodong.com.vn/thi-truong/th...du-kien-dat-74-ti-usd-vao-cuoi-nam-671937.bld
> 
> And Vietnam - Cambodia trade in 2016 reached $3 billions, not 1.6 billions
> 
> https://www.baomoi.com/viet-nam-campuchia-phan-dau-kim-ngach-thuong-mai-dat-5-ty-usd/c/21774693.epi
> 
> That made all your remaining data and your argument baseless, as usual as any argument with an Indian.
> 
> Early this year, Indian bragged about India GDP surpassed the UK based on some vague data source. I said congratulation to them, but added that wait and see until there is concrete evidence. It turned out that India had not surpassed UK at all.


Something called realpolitik. Indian navy guards the Indian Ocean. Indian army can help Vietnam to ease Chinese military pressure on the western flank. Increasing access to India consumer market will fuel our factories. To name a few. Sometimes it is good to keep it in mind. India is surely a country of extremes, however personal empathy or antiempathy isn't a good adviser.

Other news. Many speculate what 6 offshore patrol ships the Dutch want to deliver. From the industrial logic, the best guess is Damen OPV-2600. built by Damen Vietnam shipyard, 2,600 tons, 98 meter long, 26 knots.



















Or this one: long range multirole patrol and support vessel

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## AViet

fadine said:


> Vietnam needs India. Bilateral trade between Vietnam and India will increase, no one can change that.



Vietnam need India or India need Vietnam? With the nature of Indian people, who are always delusional (as observed in other India culture-influenced people as well), India army will be defeated within a couple of month if China ever attack them. Self-hatred and bragging are popular in all India English media sources. Even Indian do not trust themselves.

Just take a look at 1962 war. At that times, India was strong and relatively rich (at least superficially) and China was weak and very poor because of the cultural revolution, and it was India who attacked first (because they thought they were brown-sahib and superior than China), but China still defeated them easily.

The war need pragmatic people. India need Vietnam's army experience, skill and training, not vice-versa.

I agree that bilateral trade will increase, as the trade between Vietnam with almost all other countries in the world will, in a foreseeable future. However, trade with India will be forever insignificant.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Vietnam need India or India need Vietnam? With the nature of Indian people, who are always delusional (as observed in other India culture-influenced people as well), India army will be defeated within a couple of month if China ever attack them. Self-hatred and bragging are popular in all India English media sources. Even Indian do not trust themselves.
> 
> Just take a look at 1962 war. At that times, India was strong and relatively rich (at least superficially) and China was weak and very poor because of the cultural revolution, and it was India who attacked first (because they thought they were brown-sahib and superior than China), but China still defeated them easily.
> 
> The war need pragmatic people. India need Vietnam's army experience, skill and training, not vice-versa.
> 
> I agree that bilateral trade will increase, as the trade between Vietnam with almost all other countries in the world will, in a foreseeable future. However, trade with India will be forever insignificant.


Nations tend to cooperate if interests are allied. Need is a big word. If anything there are three elements we need to sustain human life: O2, H2O and HxCx.

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## Viet

It's a long way, Vietnam own space program but now coming a bit closer with the support from the United States. Honeywell space academy and US rocket center in Alabama.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Something called realpolitik. Indian navy guards the Indian Ocean. Indian army can help Vietnam to ease Chinese military pressure on the western flank. Increasing access to India consumer market will fuel our factories. To name a few. Sometimes it is good to keep it in mind. India is surely a country of extremes, however personal empathy or antiempathy isn't a good adviser.
> 
> Other news. Many speculate what 6 offshore patrol ships the Dutch want to deliver. From the industrial logic, the best guess is Damen OPV-2600. built by Damen Vietnam shipyard, 2,600 tons, 98 meter long, 26 knots.
> 
> View attachment 410821
> 
> View attachment 410822
> 
> View attachment 410819
> 
> View attachment 410820
> 
> 
> Or this one: long range multirole patrol and support vessel
> 
> View attachment 410824



Or it could be the DN-4000.


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## Nilgiri

AViet said:


> Where did you find that Vietnam - India trade = 9 billions in 2016, while there are articles on Vietnam media saying that trade is going to reach $7.4 billions in 2017.



Like I said, check at comtrade:








AViet said:


> And Vietnam - Cambodia trade in 2016 reached $3 billions, not 1.6 billions



Sorry I prefer comtrade (UN) official figures to whatever website that is. It standardises the figures through proper international categorisation...so little variable CA spillover happens.



AViet said:


> That made all your remaining data and your argument baseless, as usual as any argument with an Indian.



Whatever you say ..."baomai.com" vs comtrade. I let the thread viewers decide for themselves. You can use the authoritarian style declaration on your side as much as you want.



AViet said:


> Early this year, Indian bragged about India GDP surpassed the UK based on some vague data source. I said congratulation to them, but added that wait and see until there is concrete evidence. It turned out that India had not surpassed UK at all.



Some vague data source? It was from foreignpolicy economic projection reported by the UK media as well:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-planning-send-130-million-aid-end-2018.html

All GDP (nominal) measurement in the end is an estimate. Thus when outranking a country is achieved in one or two estimates, there wont necessarily be across the board till maybe a year or more is given past that.

This is also not even bringing in the utility of nominal measurement versus PPP where India exceeded UK long time back and almost double that of Japan even now.



AViet said:


> Vietnam need India or India need Vietnam? With the nature of Indian people, who are always delusional (as observed in other India culture-influenced people as well), India army will be defeated within a couple of month if China ever attack them. Self-hatred and bragging are popular in all India English media sources. Even Indian do not trust themselves.
> 
> Just take a look at 1962 war. At that times, India was strong and relatively rich (at least superficially) and China was weak and very poor because of the cultural revolution, and it was India who attacked first (because they thought they were brown-sahib and superior than China), but China still defeated them easily.
> 
> The war need pragmatic people. India need Vietnam's army experience, skill and training, not vice-versa.
> 
> I agree that bilateral trade will increase, as the trade between Vietnam with almost all other countries in the world will, in a foreseeable future. However, trade with India will be forever insignificant.



Hehe, good jokes (more like lieing through your teeth though). Thankfully most Vietnamese don't think like you (if you even a Viet in first place with all the false flaggers in this forum)....they remember what China did in 1979, strangely you wont talk about that for obvious reasons it seems.

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## Nike

Viet said:


> Sis mado you are right. I agree. that makes little sense to keep secret of everything, least the tanks. Such giant monster can't be hidden before satellites. Though I question why you need destroyers and submarines considering Indonesia defense paper sees a war in the SCS impossible, the likelyhood of a asteroid falling on earth killing all of us is higher and main threat to your country is Vietnamese illegal fishermen, Chinese turtle poachers, poor immigrants, Islamist terrorists and other unwanted individuals. Don't you think destroyer is overkill?



Javanese philosophy, always be polite and speak softly for everyone before you and carrying Keris (our traditional dagger) on your back for your last defense or stab your enemies from behind

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## AViet

Nilgiri said:


> Like I said, check at comtrade:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I prefer comtrade (UN) official figures to whatever website that is. It standardises the figures through proper international categorisation...so little variable CA spillover happens.
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever you say ..."baomai.com" vs comtrade. I let the thread viewers decide for themselves. You can use the authoritarian style declaration on your side as much as you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Some vague data source? It was from foreignpolicy economic projection reported by the UK media as well:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-planning-send-130-million-aid-end-2018.html
> 
> All GDP (nominal) measurement in the end is an estimate. Thus when outranking a country is achieved in one or two estimates, there wont necessarily be across the board till maybe a year or more is given past that.
> 
> This is also not even bringing in the utility of nominal measurement versus PPP where India exceeded UK long time back and almost double that of Japan even now.
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe, good jokes (more like lieing through your teeth though). Thankfully most Vietnamese don't think like you (if you even a Viet in first place with all the false flaggers in this forum)....they remember what China did in 1979, strangely you wont talk about that for obvious reasons it seems.



We all know about the quality of data from "free" western media and Indian media about anything related to India and "democracy vs. authoritarian regimes", so I will not bother to check your sources. I will stick with my own country data.

Second, I have been on this forum for 8 years, so I will not bother to discuss with you about whether I am Vietnamese or false flagger. For your information, both Viet and Carlosa are not Vietnamese, as they claim.


----------



## Nilgiri

AViet said:


> We all know about the quality of data from "free" western media and Indian media about anything related to India and "democracy vs. authoritarian regimes", so I will not bother to check your sources. I will stick with my own country data.
> 
> Second, I have been on this forum for 8 years, so I will not bother to discuss with you about whether I am Vietnamese or false flagger. For your information, both Viet and Carlosa are not Vietnamese, as they claim.



So UN trade figures website is a "western media" too? (do you understand where they get their trade numbers from?)

And yes you branding all Indians as "bragging" and thus attacking my own credibility because of your personal perception is extremely authoritarian thing to do....you effectively just rule out any debate or discussion....and only hold yours to be absolute valid one.

I know Carlosa is a spanish guy living in Vietnam (and his flags reflect that)...and Viet is a Vietnamese origin guy in Germany....again reflected in his flags.

Question is again why should we believe in you in some absolute way to be Vietnamese? Can you prove it more than say Viet can? You certainly do not hold much of the common views most Vietnamese here and I have met in real life hold about various issues....but I accept that possibility can exist (hence I did qualify with an "if"...and not anything absolute like you are engaging in with describing my nationality attributes and such).

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> So UN trade figures website is a "western media" too? (do you understand where they get their trade numbers from?)
> 
> And yes you branding all Indians as "bragging" and thus attacking my own credibility because of your personal perception is extremely authoritarian thing to do....you effectively just rule out any debate or discussion....and only hold yours to be absolute valid one.
> 
> I know Carlosa is a spanish guy living in Vietnam (and his flags reflect that)...and Viet is a Vietnamese origin guy in Germany....again reflected in his flags.
> 
> Question is again why should we believe in you in some absolute way to be Vietnamese? Can you prove it more than say Viet can? You certainly do not hold much of the common views most Vietnamese here and I have met in real life hold about various issues....but I accept that possibility can exist (hence I did qualify with an "if"...and not anything absolute like you are engaging in with describing my nationality attributes and such).



As I understand he is a Viet of chinese origin and his thinking is pretty much chinese, so figure that you are talking to a chinese, in which case, everything he says is "normal" and expected. He is also known for racial hate against westerners and Indians and for advocating for the "superior chinese / confucian race".

Since some people here are giving their opinion about Indian people, I may as well do it too and always coming from the perspective that every country has the good, the bad and everything in between, I can say that I very much like India, Indian culture and Indian people, I had a good time when I visited India and met some really nice people.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Or it could be the DN-4000.


That is very possible but I think we will build 2,600 ton vessels before continue with 4,000 tons. Industrial logic. The leap is too big between 2,400 vessels we can build right now and 4,000 plus tonnage we want to assemble. Maybe in 3 years we are ready. Don't need to take my personal opinion too serious though.



AViet said:


> We all know about the quality of data from "free" western media and Indian media about anything related to India and "democracy vs. authoritarian regimes", so I will not bother to check your sources. I will stick with my own country data.
> 
> Second, I have been on this forum for 8 years, so I will not bother to discuss with you about whether I am Vietnamese or false flagger. For your information, both Viet and Carlosa are not Vietnamese, as they claim.


Yes in reality I am Dark Vader wanting to enslave the human race after conquering this forum, the western media is not free but being controlled by evil Jews.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> That is very possible but I think we will build 2,600 ton vessels before continue with 4,000 tons. Industrial logic. The leap is too big between 2,400 vessels we can build right now and 4,000 plus tonnage we want to assemble. Maybe in 3 years we are ready. Don't need to take my personal opinion too serious though.
> 
> AViet said: ↑
> We all know about the quality of data from "free" western media and Indian media about anything related to India and "democracy vs. authoritarian regimes", so I will not bother to check your sources. I will stick with my own country data.
> 
> Second, I have been on this forum for 8 years, so I will not bother to discuss with you about whether I am Vietnamese or false flagger. For your information, both Viet and Carlosa are not Vietnamese, as they claim.
> Yes in reality I am Dark Vader wanting to enslave the human race after conquering this forum, the western media is not free but being controlled by evil Jews..



I claimed to be Vietnamese? That's new to me, maybe he can show when I said that.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I claimed to be Vietnamese? That's new to me, maybe he can show when I said that.


He mistakes you with somebody else. But I sorry him. Unlike unfree western media, this discussion forum is free for everyone to express opinions including shit.

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## fadine

Statistics from two different sides is normal, just like the Vietnam-China trade business statistics by the Chinese higher than the statistics of Vietnam. I remember it was Aviet who once gave this.

Vietnam needs India not only in terms of military, politically and economically much higher. Especially in economic terms, the prospect of two complementary economies is very high, unlike the economic relationship is gradually becoming competition between Vietnam - China. China has been unable to play the economic game with Vietnam primarily because its economy is not complementary and dependent on China, and if in the future if China fails to meet the middle income trap, competition between Vietnam and China in the economy will be very harsh. Vietnam need India in economic terms.

I think AViet is a Chinese.

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## Carlosa

fadine said:


> I think AViet is a Chinese.



I think so.

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## Viet

Posting this News of the day

The Phuc's government seems has agreed to the intention of Vietnam's General Staff to withdrawal the army role out of many businesses and to concentrating on national defense. Economy as important as defense as seen again with the recent trips to Germany and the Netherlands, with 100 vietnamese businesses accompanying the government delegation. That pays off. Trade deals worth $3.5b with the German and $700m with Dutch companies are signed. to mention other agreements between the governments including the 6 vessels for the Coast Guard. Not bad at all if we can suck money from the Arabs.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> That is very possible but I think we will build 2,600 ton vessels before continue with 4,000 tons. Industrial logic. The leap is too big between 2,400 vessels we can build right now and 4,000 plus tonnage we want to assemble. Maybe in 3 years we are ready. Don't need to take my personal opinion too serious though.



Just found this at the GiaoducQP website:

I Predict that by the year 2020 VIETNAM MARINE POLICE FORCE WILL HAVE the following large ships:
- 2 SHIPS DN-4000
- 2 SHIPS HAMILTON
- 8 SHIPS DN-2000
- 6 SHIPS FIRE 1000 tons

Those are their words. I think the DN-4000 is the multi purpose ship just bought from Damen, that's what these people think and they have good sources.

Expected look of the DN-4000:

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> That is very possible but I think we will build 2,600 ton vessels before continue with 4,000 tons. Industrial logic. The leap is too big between 2,400 vessels we can build right now and 4,000 plus tonnage we want to assemble. Maybe in 3 years we are ready. Don't need to take my personal opinion too serious though.



Let me tell you, that DN-4000 is a really nice ship, good size (123 x 16 m). Can adapt the design to make a nice frigate which is just what VN needs. I think its an step in that direction.

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## frequency

AViet said:


> We all know about the quality of data from "free" western media and Indian media about anything related to India and "democracy vs. authoritarian regimes", so I will not bother to check your sources. I will stick with my own country data.
> 
> Second, I have been on this forum for 8 years, so I will not bother to discuss with you about whether I am Vietnamese or false flagger. For your information, both Viet and Carlosa are not Vietnamese, as they claim.



You have zero credibility. No one respect you here. The best thing you should do is leave.

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## Carlosa

*Doi Moi II: Rule of Law and State Legitimacy in Vietnam*
*“Vietnam has the opportunity to define a next-generation model of liberalized development.”*
Le Vinh Trien and Kris Hartley

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/doi-moi-ii-rule-of-law-and-state-legitimacy-in-vietnam/

Vietnam’s economic development since the 1986 Doi Moi reforms has been a model of progress for the country’s ASEAN peers. Since 2000, Vietnam’s yearly GDP growth has averaged 6.4 percent, pushing the country to middle-income status at an impressive pace. Vietnam’s emerging market status, consistent policy trajectory, and economic ambitions make the country a magnet for foreign direct investment, funding its rapid advancement through development stages.

However, progress on reaching Vietnam’s full economic potential could be accelerated further by strengthening anti-corruption measures. Fighting corruption is crucial to ensure the legitimacy of political parties and state institutions, but such efforts are weak without a consistent and transparent rule of law. Heeding lessons from Asian Tigers South Korea and Taiwan, Vietnam has an opportunity – more than thirty years after Doi Moi – to embark on a new generation of progress: a “Doi Moi II” that introduces a Vietnamese brand of incremental democratization to help fight corruption and enhance institutional legitimacy. Such an effort would strengthen civil society’s confidence in government and sharpen domestic and international investment appetites.

Asia’s rapid growth is evidence that economic development and one-party government are not incompatible. For example, in Park Chung-Hee’s South Korea (until 1979) and the Kuomintang’s Taiwan (before 1991), as in modern-day China and Vietnam, rapid development was achieved under one-party rule. Obstacles to asset flow were targeted through market reforms and instituted by pragmatic thinkers at high government levels. As such, democratization is not always synonymous with free markets, but it can lead to reforms that strengthen investor confidence. A more rigorous application of rule of law, an approach already used to liberalize markets, can also be used to improve governance.

In Vietnam, growth facilitated by aggressive exploitation of cheap and idle resources is nearing an end, and the country must now plan for lower economic growth rates. Environmental costs notwithstanding, the mobilization of resources for growth has been facilitated by market liberalization, but the financial proceeds have accrued largely to economic and political elites. This has opened the door for the corruption that many now say must be eliminated. Market liberalization was not accompanied by the consistent and transparent application of rule of law in the political arena. While a privileged few won, modest trickle-down growth kept the striving majority satisfied enough not to agitate in the face of evident corruption. Can an “efficient markets” approach that liberated economic potential in the first generation of Vietnam’s opening-up reforms also liberalize political systems in a second generation of reforms?

*Efficient Political Markets*

Despite its towering economic progress, Vietnam is still an authoritarian state controlled by a single political party. As such, the application of the rule of law comes in principle at the pleasure or mercy of party leaders, and is not based solely on an unbiased and apolitical institutional structure. According to the concept of the rule of law, the law is above power and must be institutionalized as a check on private and potentially exploitative interests. Transparency and accountability are strictly enforced to ensure blind justice and the credible function of the state. Further checks then emerge beyond government, in the form of an independent press and a populace free to voice objections. These formal and informal institutions work in concert to restrain endemic corruption, but in one-party states the profile of systemic checks is incomplete.

In the early-1980s, the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) took an honest accounting of its economic effectiveness and recognized that its legitimacy was compromised by the failures of central planning. Subsequent economic liberalization opened new avenues for investment, but also for corruption; the CPV eventually responded by announcing anti-corruption initiatives. Following through, however, presented a theoretical dilemma: Suppress information by obstructing the judicial process and muting the press, or publicize findings and risk a loss of legitimacy. In the latter scenario, a popular backlash would damage the party image but could be met with the well-worn tools of repression: police brutality and crackdowns on speech. Corrupt individuals would then either retain their positions under cover of legal protection or be shifted to lower-profile roles without due prosecution.

Such endemic collusion allows vested interests to become entrenched and ossifies a web of interdependencies among individuals, agencies, and external interests. In the long run, even sincere efforts to fight corruption would be compromised by a lack of credibility stemming from a history of secrecy, favoritism, and political patronage. With legislation failing to reduce corruption, rule of law, judicial independence, and press freedom become essential to the circulation of information to voters and investors. As such, the legitimacy of state institutions, rather than that of individual political parties, should be the highest calling of political liberalization.

*Asian Models of Political Liberalization*

Modern-day Vietnam shares similarities with pre-democratized South Korea and Taiwan. With the exhaustion of gains from cheap labor, economic growth becomes difficult to sustain. Unleashing the creativity and entrepreneurial potential of the citizenry can help a country escape the so-called middle-income trap, a phenomenon in which developing countries reach an income ceiling below that of fully developed countries. South Korea and Taiwan avoided the trap, and at the same time democratized political institutions in the mid-1980s by embracing multi-party political systems and the rule of law. Such political reforms helped both countries to gain international credibility as investment opportunities and to achieve higher stages of development. Although neither South Korea nor Taiwan was communist prior to political liberalization, each serves as an exemplar of political transition. Arguably, Vietnam does not adhere to a strict definition of communism, the last significant vestiges of which are state-owned enterprises (SOEs) – famously inefficient, debt-laden, and an unattractive sell in equity markets.

The Doi Moi reforms set Vietnam on an unprecedented economic winning streak, buying the CPV several decades of legitimacy and popularity. However, in politics as in economics, trends are cyclical. With a Doi Moi II, the CPV can reaffirm the legitimacy of state institutions and earn the party a legacy of pragmatism and meritocracy – one largely enjoyed by Singapore’s People’s Action Party (PAP). The potential for economic growth would also be strengthened, as investors from developed (and multi-party) countries care more about durable state institutions than the passing legitimacy of a potentially vulnerable political party.

Highly publicized targeting of senior officials must not be the defining feature of anti-corruption efforts. More theater than substance, such cherry-picking paradoxically reflects the same ad-hoc application of law that typifies one-party rule. Fighting corruption should not be a brash, haphazard cavalcade of character assassinations, but a sober and systemic transformation. Deep reform institutionalizes legal processes so that the removal of corrupt officials is politically impartial; the process itself, consistent across individual cases, avoids capture by political interests or personal vendettas. It also helps government avoid the stigma of deploying a repressive apparatus, often a last resort and sign of desperation.

Such efforts are one aspect of what Doi Moi II could look like. More generally, freedom of political association and mobilization – for instance, allowing alternative political parties to organize – can and should be ensured, even in a system dominated by a single party. The CPV has championed an impressive and historic development process, and as long as it produces fresh and innovative policies, it should be confident about its legitimacy and competiveness – even in an open political arena. The elimination of restrictions, explicit and implicit, on the press and free speech is essential to fostering an open political arena, one that can further validate the CPV’s leadership through a free discussion of ideas. Competition in any form encourages innovation and improvement. Vietnam can achieve in the political arena what it already has in the economic one: pragmatic and efficient systems that improve material outcomes.

In an era when political parties around the world are turning inwards, embracing populism, and behaving irrationally, the rationality of durable state institutions should supersede the self-preservation interests of a single dominant party. Vietnam has the opportunity to define a next-generation model of liberalized development, for the benefit of her people and for the progress of ASEAN.

_Dr. Le Vinh Trien is a Lecturer at the School of Government, Ho Chi Minh City University of Economics. __Dr. Kris Hartley__ is a Lecturer at the Department of City and Regional Planning, Cornell University._

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Let me tell you, that DN-4000 is a really nice ship, good size (123 x 16 m). Can adapt the design to make a nice frigate which is just what VN needs. I think its an step in that direction.


I think dn4000 design is not suitable as warship. Better is the Hamilton class we get from the Yankees. If modified here and there a bit, we could make it to a frigate. If successful in practice and combat we can produce one or two squadrons.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I think dn4000 design is not suitable as warship. Better is the Hamilton class we get from the Yankees. If modified here and there a bit, we could make it to a frigate. If successful in practice and combat we can produce one or two squadrons.
> 
> View attachment 411258



The Hamilton is a 50 year old design.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The Hamilton is a 50 year old design.


Not a problem. 50 years are just a snapshot of time. Design of modern warships today goes back to the experiences of sea battles between the Greek and Persian navies. The shape, the navigation system, the armor, the guns have seen improvements but it is still the basic. Warship is not different to electric washing machine when it was invented. Gradual evolution. What we need is improving the shape to make it faster and more versatile, powerful propulsion to drive it more than 30 knots, mighty fire control radar and cruise missiles to attack enemy ships at a far distance, air defense system to protect our ship against aerial threats.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Not a problem. 50 years are just a snapshot of time. Design of modern warships today goes back to the experiences of sea battles between the Greek and Persian navies. The shape, the navigation system, the armor, the guns have seen improvements but it is still the basic. Warship is not different to electric washing machine when it was invented. Gradual evolution. What we need is improving the shape to make it faster and more versatile, powerful propulsion to drive it more than 30 knots, mighty fire control radar and cruise missiles to attack enemy ships at a far distance, air defense system to protect our ship against aerial threats.



Stealth requirements will surely reshape the ship.

One thing that I think VN should do is to improve the weapon systems in the large coast guard ships. I think the DN-2000 should have a 76mm gun.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Stealth requirements will surely reshape the ship.
> 
> One thing that I think VN should do is to improve the weapon systems in the large coast guard ships. I think the DN-2000 should have a 76mm gun.


I believe all Vietnamese coast guard ships carry machine guns of all calibers. If not yet, it should. Seriously, we should turn all heavy Coast Guard ships into warships carrying container based Kalibr cruise missiles should it come to sea battles in the SC sea. If it comes to a war, there shouldn't be any hesitation. The Chinese have shown thru history they will resort to every destructive means due to their deep rooted hatred to kill our people destroying our country. 

Stealth can be achieved if high rise superstructure is covered by radar absorbing material. The design of Hamilton is good. It can operate at highsea at all weather conditions, in every waters from artic in the Bearing sea to warm in the Caribbean. It has even seen combat and support role in Vietnam war. Something not many modern today warships can.


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## Viet

Test firing newly developed, remote controlled automatic machine gun 12.7mm. Firing rate 800 rounds per minute, range 2,000m. It is expected the gun will be mounted on T90 tanks.

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## Farhan Bohra

AViet said:


> We all know about the quality of data from "free" western media and Indian media about anything related to India and "democracy vs. authoritarian regimes", so I will not bother to check your sources. I will stick with my own country data.
> 
> Second, I have been on this forum for 8 years, so I will not bother to discuss with you about whether I am Vietnamese or false flagger. For your information, both Viet and Carlosa are not Vietnamese, as they claim.



Will you provide Vietnam's official data?

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## Viet

*Vietnamese Spetsnaz*

Born during the war, the Spetsnatz conducted commando and sabotage acts behind enemy lines, bringing terror but now for the incoming APEC Summit in Danang city they are responsible for the security, conducting anti terror operations.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

AViet said:


> Vietnam need India or India need Vietnam? With the nature of Indian people, who are always delusional (as observed in other India culture-influenced people as well), India army will be defeated within a couple of month if China ever attack them. Self-hatred and bragging are popular in all India English media sources. Even Indian do not trust themselves.
> 
> Just take a look at 1962 war. At that times, India was strong and relatively rich (at least superficially) and China was weak and very poor because of the cultural revolution, and it was India who attacked first (because they thought they were brown-sahib and superior than China), but China still defeated them easily.
> 
> The war need pragmatic people. India need Vietnam's army experience, skill and training, not vice-versa.
> 
> I agree that bilateral trade will increase, as the trade between Vietnam with almost all other countries in the world will, in a foreseeable future. However, trade with India will be forever insignificant.





Nilgiri said:


> Hehe, good jokes (more like lieing through your teeth though). Thankfully most Vietnamese don't think like you (if you even a Viet in first place with all the false flaggers in this forum)....they remember what China did in 1979, strangely you wont talk about that for obvious reasons it seems.



I just love how Indians got owned even Vietnamese are looking down on them...What did we do in 1979?, we just pathetic losers that got beaten...I will give credit to Vietnam .


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## fadine

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I just love how Indians got owned even Vietnamese are looking down on them...What did we do in 1979?, we just pathetic losers that got beaten...I will give credit to Vietnam .


Because AViet is so egocentric and arrogant, I can be sure he is Chinese. Chinese smelled too heavy.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

fadine said:


> Because AViet is so egocentric and arrogant, I can be sure he is Chinese. Chinese smelled too heavy.



is that our problem?


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## AViet

fadine said:


> Because AViet is so egocentric and arrogant, I can be sure he is Chinese. Chinese smelled too heavy.



Boy, I can be sure you are a coward Southerner. Hanoian have different mentality, you can call it arrogance, but that's why we dominate in every things.


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## fadine

AViet said:


> Boy, I can be sure you are a coward Southerner. Hanoian have different mentality, you can call it arrogance, but that's why we dominate in every things.


I come from Hanam provide, now live in Hanoi. Both areas are in northern Vietnam. My grandfather, my father and my mother are all members of the communist party. I am one of the conservative remaining in the youth. I hate people who acclaim everything from the United States, I hate being exaggerated against China. But to be honest I increasingly hate China, because they occupy our island and are extremely arrogant.

I reveal to you something you do not know, Vietnamese's sentiments towards the people of India are very good, especially in the North.

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## Viet

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I just love how Indians got owned even Vietnamese are looking down on them...What did we do in 1979?, we just pathetic losers that got beaten...I will give credit to Vietnam .


Hey hey that's a new tone. What happened to you lately? Your Chinese brothers will begin to hate you if you continue with such music. Regardless, you can't hinder VN nor India to cooperate with each other. Otherwise too boring if you can do whatever you like in economy and military in the region. And every kid knows it: the risk of a war is high if one party is confident he can win the deadly encounter.

Vietnam recent amphibious assault exercise























New developed radioactivity measuring device PX-6KT to be installed on Vietnam surface warships. Just a precautionary measure. Nobody can be crazy enough to resort to nuclear weapons.

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## Svantana

Viet said:


> Hey hey that's a new tone. What happened to you lately? Your Chinese brothers will begin to hate you if you continue with such music. Regardless, you can't hinder VN nor India to cooperate with each other. Otherwise too boring if you can do whatever you like in economy and military in the region. And every kid knows it: the risk of a war is high if one party is confident he can win the deadly encounter.
> 
> Vietnam recent amphibious assault exercise
> 
> View attachment 411734
> 
> View attachment 411735
> 
> View attachment 411733
> 
> View attachment 411731
> 
> View attachment 411732
> 
> 
> 
> New developed radioactivity measuring device PX-6KT to be installed on Vietnam surface warships. Just a precautionary measure. Nobody can be crazy enough to resort to nuclear weapons.
> 
> View attachment 411737
> 
> View attachment 411736


Adding pair of LPD/SSV will be great for such vietnam's amphibious assault


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## Viva_Viet

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I just love how Indians got owned even Vietnamese are looking down on them...What did we do in 1979?, we just pathetic losers that got beaten...I will give credit to Vietnam .


Wow, okay, Cnese here start facing wt the truth. It'd better for u to accept the lost in 1979 and oil rig conflict in 2014 and stop fighting wt VN to avoid another loss in the future.

Fighting against VN in East VN sea (SCS) is the most stupid idea cos when we finish unifying aub Mekong region to get stronger, then who wanna be VN's enemies will get night mare all days

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## Viet

Svantana said:


> Adding pair of LPD/SSV will be great for such vietnam's amphibious assault


Your ship is not too bad but the problem is how to defend it against enemy aerial attacks? Against antiship missiles? we don't have any missile destroyer now for air defense, such large transport ship is an easy target for the Chinese.

@Carlosa

We need many small but fast transport vessels instead.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Your ship is not too bad but the problem is how to defend it against enemy aerial attacks? Against antiship missiles? we don't have any missile destroyer now for air defense, such large transport ship is an easy target for the Chinese.
> 
> @Carlosa
> 
> We need many small but fast transport vessels instead.



Big ship = big target. Many small LSTs are a much more secured, effective proposition.

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## Svantana

Viet said:


> Your ship is not too bad but the problem is how to defend it against enemy aerial attacks? Against antiship missiles? we don't have any missile destroyer now for air defense, such large transport ship is an easy target for the Chinese.
> 
> @Carlosa
> 
> We need many small but fast transport vessels instead.





Carlosa said:


> Big ship = big target. Many small LSTs are a much more secured, effective proposition.



yeah many small or medium LSTs would be nice too, it can carry some Main Battle Tank that cannot carried by a LPD/SSV... we used some small LSTs too
Indonesian navy LSTs







or smaller LSTs used by the RI Army

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## Viet

Svantana said:


> yeah many small or medium LSTs would be nice too, it can carry some Main Battle Tank that cannot carried by a LPD/SSV... we used some small LSTs too
> Indonesian navy LSTs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or smaller LSTs used by the RI Army


No problem with large transport vessels if we have missile destroyers. But now we haven't, so small and fast transport units are more suitable. I am pretty sure we will get destroyers in the near future as soon as money is available. At the moment a task force can only escort small landing craft.

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## Carlosa

Svantana said:


> yeah many small or medium LSTs would be nice too, it can carry some Main Battle Tank that cannot carried by a LPD/SSV... we used some small LSTs too
> Indonesian navy LSTs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or smaller LSTs used by the RI Army



Yes, Indonesia has very different needs than Vietnam. For Indonesia it makes sense to have an strong amphibious force including big ships since it is a country of so many islands. The chinese threat to Indonesia is relatively minor compared to Vietnam. Indonesia needs to keep enough of a deterrence force to keep intruding chinese ships away and do a good job patrolling the Natuna waters, that would be enough.The area at risk (Natuna) is actually quite small, so Its not difficult to do the job.

Vietnam on the other hand, is in the crosshair of the chinese military and a Vietnamese amphibious force that tries to reach the Spratlys would have a hard time arriving to destination in one piece, I would say its a suicidal mission, so no point in having big ships.

If anything, for Vietnam, Its more important to have a strong coast guard force and that's building up quite nicely.

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## Viet

A task force consists of Gepard frigates, Molynia corvettes and TT400 gunships...and probably Kilo attack submarines beneath on patrol.

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## Carlosa

Latest pic of Spratly island (Dao Truong Sa Lon) land reclamation:

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## Viet

Network Operation Center NOC of VietTel, developed by VietTel and Mitsubishi Electric. LED display, length 30m, height 4m, Full HD 1920x1080 x(60).

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## Viet

Welcome the new Spanish ambassador to Vietnam: Mrs. Jesus Figo Lopez Palop. the Spaniards piss on Chinese 9-dash worthless claim, ignoring all blackmail and intimidation attempts. The VN/Spanish joint venture drill 250 miles far from Vietnam base line. We should drill further far from home. Unclos allows 350 miles. Also, Spain supports Vietnam's bid for a seat in UN Security Council and General Director of UNESCO.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Network Operation Center NOC of VietTel, developed by VietTel and Mitsubishi Electric. LED display, length 30m, height 4m, Full HD 1920x1080 x(60).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 412002
> View attachment 412003
> View attachment 412004



Those guys standing there going," What the shit is all this sorcery!!"


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Viet said:


> Hey hey that's a new tone. What happened to you lately? Your Chinese brothers will begin to hate you if you continue with such music. Regardless, you can't hinder VN nor India to cooperate with each other. Otherwise too boring if you can do whatever you like in economy and military in the region. And every kid knows it: the risk of a war is high if one party is confident he can win the deadly encounter.
> 
> Vietnam recent amphibious assault exercise
> 
> View attachment 411734
> 
> View attachment 411735
> 
> View attachment 411733
> 
> View attachment 411731
> 
> View attachment 411732
> 
> 
> 
> New developed radioactivity measuring device PX-6KT to be installed on Vietnam surface warships. Just a precautionary measure. Nobody can be crazy enough to resort to nuclear weapons.
> 
> View attachment 411737
> 
> View attachment 411736



if that can comfort you

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Those guys standing there going," What the shit is all this sorcery!!"


No shit no sorcery. The picture shows the NOC of VietTel global telecom Network. with $10 billion revenue last year it is not a stranger to the army because the company belongs to the armed forces. There are considerations to privatize it over the exchange, worth $20 billion market capitalization. But I think too early yet, the army will sell to a higher price when it has reached the target of 20 or 30 billion USD in revenue in 2020 according to business plan.

vietnamese are generally not stupid, so giving them freedom to act is the key. Soon to be on the market: VN first highend smartphone bphone2.






VietTel/Nutaq 5G base station prototype 1,000 Gbps

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## Viet

http://m.soha.vn/tap-doan-rostec-nga-neu-viet-nam-can-s-400-chung-toi-san-sang-20170718104917153.htm

Sometimes there are interesting articles on Soha. An interview with Victor Kladov, the general director of Rostec. The company is an umbrella of Russia military industrial complex, representing hundreds of military firms. He says Russia is ready to deliver S400 missile, Mig31 fighter aircraft and Ka52 helicopter if Vietnam wants to buy. The Russians sell military hardware like the Vietnamese sell pho dish. Rostec recently opens representative offices in Hanoi and Saigon, staffed by 8 and 3 personnel respectively, considering VN as important customer (that means in Russian language: people with influence and money).

Two things:

Russia company Kamaz will soon start assembling military trucks in Vietnam.

Besides, he reveals Russia is in the process to transfer technologies to enable Vietnam to produce bigger or more advanced warships. My dream of missile destroyer probably comes sooner than expected 

@Barmaley

Victor Kladov, general director of Rostec





Mig31





S400

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## Nabil365

Viet said:


> http://m.soha.vn/tap-doan-rostec-nga-neu-viet-nam-can-s-400-chung-toi-san-sang-20170718104917153.htm
> 
> Sometimes there are interesting articles on Soha. An interview with Victor Kladov, the general director of Rostec. The company is an umbrella of Russia military industrial complex, representing hundreds of military firms. He says Russia is ready to deliver S400 missile, Mig31 fighter aircraft and Ka52 helicopter if Vietnam wants to buy. The Russians sell military hardware like the Vietnamese sell pho dish. Rostec recently opens representative offices in Hanoi and Saigon, staffed by 8 and 3 personnel respectively, considering VN as important customer (that means in Russian language: people with influence and money).
> 
> Two things:
> 
> Russia company Kamaz will soon start assembling military trucks in Vietnam.
> 
> Besides, he reveals Russia is in the process to transfer technologies to enable Vietnam to produce bigger or more advanced warships. My dream of missile destroyer probably comes sooner than expected
> 
> @Barmaley
> 
> Victor Kladov, general director of Rostec
> View attachment 412300
> 
> 
> Mig31
> View attachment 412299
> 
> 
> S400
> View attachment 412301


Get S-400!


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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> VietTel global telecom Network. with $10 billion revenue last year it is not a stranger to the army because the company belongs to the armed forces


revenue can be high in coming years as viettel made $2b worth investment in Myanmar collaboration with Myanmar Army owned company. Myanmar-Vietnam army cooperation in telecom field making easy money 
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Viettel-to-make-2bn-mobile-investment-in-Myanmar

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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> revenue can be high in coming years as viettel made $2b worth investment in Myanmar collaboration with Myanmar Army owned company. Myanmar-Vietnam army cooperation in telecom field making easy money
> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Viettel-to-make-2bn-mobile-investment-in-Myanmar


Indeed huge investment plus $300 million in fee for the license but only for 15 years. Huge risk. Unless Viettel wants to recoup the money and makes profit after ousting all other three competitors off the market. As seen elsewhere.

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> Indeed huge investment plus $300 million in fee for the license but only for 15 years. Huge risk. Unless Viettel wants to recoup the money and makes profit after ousting all other three competitors off the market. As seen elsewhere.


actually Viettel have higher chance to get profit in shorter period.
3 former operators have to invest more infra like tower construction which just covered a few % of country when they started operation. now it already covered 90% of country and many tower renting service companies are appeared now with cheaper price. Ooredoo promised to invest $10b in next 3 years and already made $3b worth investment which is higher than Viettal current proposal.
secondly the seniors have to pay foreign experts more due to lack of well-trained human resource in local. now viettel can get well-trained local talents with lower salary rate and no need to provide flat and car like foreign experts. and many people who worked in telecom field in foreign countries are now coming back as our telecom market are expending in fastest rate in Asia.
Viettel can start operation in shorter period with lower investment compared to its seniors. just following and learning from their mistakes with stress free.moreover contract can extend 5 year 2 times. so Viettel can operate up to 25 years. actually this 4th operator slot was special favor for Army owned Company cos it can make money with less effort. but they dont have exp in telecom sector and they think cooperation with Viettel would be good as both are army owned companies and can expend into future military cooperation like rader production. so win-win for both.

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## Viet

Nabil365 said:


> Get S-400!


We have one of the most densely air defense networks in the world, including s300 missile batteries. Not a bird flies undetected in our airspace. But true, there is a gap in air defense far from the mainland, namely for our surface fleets and our islands in the high sea. So the question is not if but when we will close the gap by acquiring s400 missile batteries.



Aung Zaya said:


> actually Viettel have higher chance to get profit in shorter period.
> 3 former operators have to invest more infra like tower construction which just covered a few % of country when they started operation. now it already covered 90% of country and many tower renting service companies are appeared now with cheaper price. Ooredoo promised to invest $10b in next 3 years and already made $3b worth investment which is higher than Viettal current proposal.
> secondly the seniors have to pay foreign experts more due to lack of well-trained human resource in local. now viettel can get well-trained local talents with lower salary rate and no need to provide flat and car like foreign experts. and many people who worked in telecom field in foreign countries are now coming back as our telecom market are expending in fastest rate in Asia.
> Viettel can start operation in shorter period with lower investment compared to its seniors. just following and learning from their mistakes with stress free.moreover contract can extend 5 year 2 times. so Viettel can operate up to 25 years. actually this 4th operator slot was special favor for Army owned Company cos it can make money with less effort. but they dont have exp in telecom sector and they think cooperation with Viettel would be good as both are army owned companies and can expend into future military cooperation like rader production. so win-win for both.


But every extension costs money, doesn't it? Other factors that favor the latecomer VietTel are assumptions nobody knows they will be realized or not. It is a high risk investment. Anyway no risk no fun. Myanmar is a place to be.

Do you have the latest from Vietnam major real estate investment in your capital city?

the Hoang Anh Gia Lai (HAGL) group?

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> every extension costs money, doesn't it? Other factors that favor the latecomer VietTel are assumptions nobody knows they will be realized or not. It is a high risk investment. Anyway no risk no fun. Myanmar is a place to be.


sure. but it will be much more less than 15years contract fee. plus they can enjoy special feature like tax reduction and using army owned land for free.


Viet said:


> Do you have the latest from Vietnam major real estate investment in your capital city?
> 
> the Hoang Anh Gia Lai (HAGL) group?


phase 1 is finished




phase 2 is started




made expansion in plaza and cineplex in coming years. will invest in housing development in next year. 
http://frontiermyanmar.net/en/city-mart-hagl-ink-deal-on-myanmar-plaza-expansion
http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/na...l-ace-mega-sign-deal-to-develop-cineplex.html

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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> sure. but it will be much more less than 15years contract fee. plus they can enjoy special feature like tax reduction and using army owned land for free.
> 
> phase 1 is finished
> View attachment 412529
> 
> phase 2 is started
> View attachment 412530
> 
> made expansion in plaza and cineplex in coming years. will invest in housing development in next year.
> http://frontiermyanmar.net/en/city-mart-hagl-ink-deal-on-myanmar-plaza-expansion
> http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/na...l-ace-mega-sign-deal-to-develop-cineplex.html


Looking great. It is good for Myanmar not to rely too much on a single big country (ha ha you know what I mean) but to spread your cards on many parties. If Viettel and HAGL succeed, many other Vietnamese companies will follow with investments

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## Aqsuperman

A missiles handle technique contest of the Army and Navy crews. The participant units equipment included the Army Scud and BM-21.The Navy 4K51 Rubezh, K-300 Bastion and EXTRA.

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## Viet

#INTEL
JULY 19, 2017 / 1:05 PM / 7 HOURS AGO
*Vietnam plans oil reserves equivalent of 90 days of imports by 2020*


HANOI, July 19 (Reuters) - Vietnam's prime minister has approved a plan for the country's total crude oil and oil product stocks to be at least 90 days' worth of net imports by 2020.

The southeast Asian country joins developing nations such as China and India in establishing an oil buffer that will enhance their energy security as imports have jumped while domestic production is on the decline.

The 90-day net import level is a standard set by the International Energy Agency for its OECD members.

Vietnamese refineries will be required to maintain crude stockpiles equivalent to 15 days of their processing capacity and 10 days of oil products output, a government statement said on Friday. These would be equivalent to 30-35 days of Vietnam's net imports, it said.

The government said it planned to keep commercial oil stockpiles stable at 35 days of net imports while crude and oil products reserves at import terminals and those held by trading companies are expected to reach 20 days of the country's net imports by 2025.

The statement did not provide details on where the oil reserve storage facilities are located.

Vietnam has imported 280,492 tonnes of crude oil in the first half of this year, up 1.6 percent from a year earlier, according to government data.

The country's two refineries are estimated to meet about two-third of Vietnam's demand when its second refinery starts operations later this year. 

(Reporting by My Pham; Editing by Mark Potter)

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> Looking great. It is good for Myanmar not to rely too much on a single big country (ha ha you know what I mean) but to spread your cards on many parties. If Viettel and HAGL succeed, many other Vietnamese companies will follow with investments


ah yes.  currently 3 big Vietnam firms ( HAGL , Viettel , BIDV ) are investing in Myanmar. many vietnam firms are seeking partnar for their business as Vietnam are stronger than ever. 
http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/351362/vietnamese-firms-eye-investing-in-myanmar.html

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## Viet

http://www.reuters.com/article/refinery-vietnam-idUSL3N1KA2MZ

Another important step toward energy independence. The* $9 billion* oil (200,000 bpd) refinery Nghi Son is to start operation, with the first oil supertanker to be loaded up with 270,000 tonnes of crude oil from Kuwait's Mina Al Ahmadi port on Aug. 1 for delivery. Vietnam needs to build up fleets of armed escort vessels to protect the oil giant tankers against pirates and other unwanted guests.












Vietnam first domestic made small robot capable to detect chemical and radioactive material

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## Carlosa

*Can Vietnam’s Military Really Mind Its Own Businesses?*
The debate over the military’s role in economic activities continues to rage on.

By Nguyen The Phuong
July 20, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/can-vietnams-military-really-mind-its-own-businesses/

The land disputes that surfaced recently in Dong Tam and the debate over whether or not to use the notorious Tan Son Nhat golf course to expand the highly overloaded Tan Son Nhat International Airport has ignited another sensitive but interesting issue within Vietnam: the role of the military in economic activities.

The golf course, which was inaugurated in August 2015, is infamous for occupying an enormous 157-hectare area that many critics say should be instead preserved for expanding the busy airport. Public opinion has been continuously posing questions about how this piece of military-owned land has been used and whether or not it was used properly for “security and defense” purposes (which it is definitely not in this case). Major General Lam Quang Dai, deputy political commissar of the Vietnam’s People Air Force, said in an interview:

_The 157-hectare golf course is the military’s reserved land to protect Ho Chi Minh City as well as the Tan Son Nhat Airport. While it is idle, the government can use it for economic development. When it is needed, the ministry will recall the land._

The golf course debate and Dong Tam land disputes, which were highly disturbing for both party and military elites, raised a huge debate on social and state media about the role of the military in any economic activities.

As a communist country, there is no doubt that the relationship between the Vietnam Communist Party (VCP) and the Vietnam’s People Army (VPA) is a typical symbiotic relationship. The military complies with civilian wishes by supporting the legitimacy of the VCP’s single-party rule, while civilians agree to preserve the military’s somewhat circumscribed role within the political system.

This mutual connection is enhanced by several factors, and one of those factors is the extent to which the military is to be allowed to conduct and manage economic activities. Apart from the political reasons for doing so, this factor is formalized and acceptable due to the fact that the state would not be able to cover the entire defense budget. In that sense, economic gains from various military-owned companies and enterprises is also strengthening this steady “commercialization” of the VPA.

But the recent controversies show that the debate on the military’s role in economic activities continues to rage on in Vietnam. Kicking off the debate this time around was a rarely heard opinion from a somewhat strong voice supporting “de-commercialization”: Colonel General Le Chiem, who is the deputy minister of national defense. As he elaborated a meeting with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Ho Chi Minh City:

_The Ministry of National Defense is now considering having the military stop doing business… The provisional policy could be implemented with the military completely divesting from all companies it has a stake in, as well as privatizing all military-run enterprises._

He also underlined that once the military no longer has a share in those companies, it will “focus on enhancing and modernizing itself to better fulfill its duty of protecting the Party, the state, and the people.”

After this surprising announcement from Le Chiem, public opinion, especially those from economic and epistemic communities, became enthusiastic and excited about the prospect of the military being completely cut off from economic activities.

These voices discussed how to privatize military-owned enterprises by dividing them into two categories. The first set of enterprises, which is currently building weapons and other logistical support for VPA and conducting research and development (R&D) in defense technology, should be completely separated from business-driven incentives. The second set of enterprises, where business activities mostly overlap with their civilian counterparts (in sectors such as telecommunication, banking and finance, and real estate), should be completely privatized. Public opinion also called out for the National Congress to issue resolutions supporting the smooth transfer of this de-commercialization process.

The interest groups within the military supporting commercialization have immediately fought back, and they seem to have the upper hand for now. The official media outlet of the VPA, _The People’s Army Newspaper, _published a three-issue editorial defending the rights of the military to do business, calling it “a long-term strategic policy.” Then the newspaper even organized a small conference discussing the importance of the VPA’s business activities in defending and developing the country’s economy. In another meeting between senior defense and civilian officials with the leaders of Viettel Corporation, one of the biggest military-owned enterprises, Minister of National Defense General Ngo Xuan Lich once again elaborated the rightfulness of the long-term policy that allow the military to do business when he said:

_Participating in economic activities has been and will be an important mission of the military but this is always the factor attacked by reactionary forces… They insist that the military should not be engaged in business activities. Our principle is that the Party is the sole and ultimate leader of the military._

Those fierce responses from high-ranking officials in the military are a firm reminder that the VCP will not lose its control over the VPA anytime soon. It is a warning signal to any groups both within and outside the military establishment not to challenge the leadership of the party and pursue “de-commercialization” of the VPA. More importantly, it is also an indication that the pro-modernization and pro-professionalization factions within the military elites are minorities at this time, as they could not exert their influence even in an advantageous environment created by recent events.

Moreover, the strength of the factions supporting business and economic activities is also deeply rooted and ought not to be underestimated. First of all, the military is still getting the necessary level of modernization to tackle external threats, which in turns reduces the urgency of the push for greater professionalization.

Second, there are no serious cases of corruption within the military elites and military-owned enterprises, and therefore no threat to the legitimacy of the military in doing business.

Third and finally, many enterprises run by the military are in fact efficient and bring back many benefits for the state, with some examples including the Viettel Group, the logistics company Saigon New Port, or the Military Bank. The reality of the military being involved in economic activities in Vietnam is also not new and has a historical record that can be traced back decades, which is also one of the arguments of pro-business faction.

More importantly, the Vietnamese military is also implementing its own reformation of economic and business activities. Major General Vo Hong Thang, head of the Economic Department of the VPA, has mentioned several details about the ongoing reforms, including restructuring all military-run enterprises to reduce unnecessary running costs and raise more benefits, privatizing those not relating to defense and military missions, and accepting the bankruptcy of some of the least efficient companies.

The idea is that the military will only control those enterprises that are highly beneficial or important for the military-industry complex in a number of sectors such as communications, agriculture, shipbuilding, and air services. It is worth noting that as of 2017, 88 military-owned enterprises remain and will be subjected to reform in the future, down from a whopping 300 just few years ago.

_Nguyen The Phuong is an associate researcher from the Saigon Center for International Studies (SCIS)._


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## Carlosa

Interesting news from a Thai newspaper, originally from Reuters about Vietnam that the Vietnamese media is silent about (as far as I know):

*Vietnam pollution fight hits supplier to global fashion brands*

21 Jul 2017 at 14:17 REUTERS 
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/ase...-fight-hits-supplier-to-global-fashion-brands






Picture shows a protesting camp set by villagers to block entrance of Hong Kong's Pacific Crystal textiles factory after villagers accused the company of polluting local water in Hai Duong province, outside Hanoi on July 13. (Reuters photo)

HANOI -- Vietnamese villagers blockading a textile plant that serves global fashion brands are seeking the permanent closure of the factory due to pollution concerns, highlighting a growing readiness in Vietnam to campaign over environmental issues.

Hundreds of people from Hai Duong, 50km east of Hanoi, have kept watch in shifts day and night since April to stop work at the Pacific Crystal Textiles mill, operated by Hong Kong-based Pacific Textiles. Among those affected by the stoppage is Japanese clothing giant UNIQLO.

The blockade marks another challenge to the communist state's authority stemming from industrial pollution at a time when Vietnam is seeking more foreign investors to maintain one of Southeast Asia's highest growth rates. A toxic spill from a Taiwanese-run steel mill in central Vietnam last year sparked unprecedented protests.

The factory in Hai Duong opened in 2015 as a venture between Pacific Textiles Holdings Ltd and garment maker Crystal Group. Initial investment in the plant was reported at the time to be least US$180 million.

Villagers said they started to notice a bad smell last year.

"It was an unbearably rotten, foul, pungent smell," said 60-year-old war veteran Vu Dinh Vinh. It got worse at night.

When he and others investigated, he said, they found the smell came from water discharged from the factory. (continues below)





Farmer Vu Dinh Vinh shows the place where he said villagers found waste water released by Hong Kong's Pacific Crystal textiles factory in Hai Duong province, outside Hanoi on July 13. (Reuters photo)

The company was fined 672 million dong ($30,000) for that December spill, according to a statement on the Hai Duong authority's website in February. Water was found to have breached limits for acidity and alkalinity balance, colour, total suspended solids, chemical oxygen demand and biochemical oxygen demand.

But villagers said they were still concerned, accusing the factory of continued pollution and setting up their blockade on April 12.

When a delegation from the local authority visited on Wednesday to give the villagers a three-day deadline to move, they said they were not going anywhere.

"We want to expel the factory and never let it produce again," said 70-year-old Bui Van Nguyet.

Pacific Textiles said there had been only one discharge of waste water, on Dec 24, 2016, and that it had not reached the nearby river. Villagers were wrong to say pollution had continued, it said.

Pacific Textiles' head of corporate social responsibility, Eugene Cheng, told Reuters steps had been taken to stop any discharge of waste water with the help of the local government.

"We did not understand the reason or motive behind them to shut down the factory as some of the villagers' relatives are also working for our factory," Cheng said.

*Financial impact*
In regulatory announcements, the company has reported a "significant financial impact" because of the blockade at the factory, which had accounted for 10% of its sales.

This week, Pacific Textiles said it was waiting for the local People's Committee and industrial park to "clear the blockage".

Local authorities did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

UNIQLO's owner, Japan's Fast Retailing, told Reuters it indirectly sourced fabric from the mill and had shifted production elsewhere for now. It said it had verified the steps Pacific Crystal had taken to remedy the situation after the spill.

"Fast Retailing is serious about running an ethical, sustainable business, and operates all supplier relationships under a strict code of conduct," spokesman Aldo Liguori said.

Fast Retailing believed the dispute with farmers related to the initial terms of the sale of the land, he said, adding that neither it nor Pacific Crystal was involved in discussions.

Villagers said the dispute with the local government over the sale of the land, which had been going on for more than a decade, was a separate issue.

"This is entirely about pollution," said Vinh.

Pacific Textiles did not specify which customers it supplied from the factory but its website says it has relationships with brands including Calvin Klein and Victoria's Secret. The latter's owner, L Brands, told Reuters no production for any of its brands came from the plant. Calvin Klein owner PVH Corp did not respond to an emailed request for comment.

Gap Inc said it worked with both Crystal Group and Pacific Textiles, but did not source from or work with this plant.

Attention to pollution in Vietnam has grown since last year, when a spill from a Formosa Plastics Group steel plant poisoned sea life along more than 200 km (125 miles) of coastline, prompting long-running protests.

The government has told companies they must meet environmental standards in order to stay in the country.

The state has also shown a readiness to tackle environmental campaigners, whose protests have tested the limits of strict laws to limit criticism and maintain public order. One of Vietnam's most prominent bloggers, Nguyen Ngoc Nhu Quynh, who is known by her pen name of Mother Mushroom, was jailed for 10 years this month for anti-state propaganda.

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## xiao qi

*(Kiến Thức) - Tập đoàn xuất nhập khẩu vũ khí Nga Rosoboronexport vừa lên tiếng xác nhận sẽ bán 64 xe tăng T-90S và T-90SK cho Quân đội Nhân dân Việt Nam. *

Việt Nam sẽ nhận các *xe tăng T-90S* và các trang bị vũ khí cho hải quân theo khoản tín dụng mà phía Nga dành cho Việt Nam. Đó là phát biểu của ông Alexander Mikheev, tổng giám đốc Rosoboronexport cho biết với báo chí tại triển lãm hàng không quốc tế (MAKS 2017) tại thành phố Zhukovsky, ngoại ô thủ đô Moskva.
Ông cũng cho biết rằng, trước khi kết thúc năm 2017, chúng tôi có thể ký kết với Thái Lan một số hợp đồng vũ khí hải quân và không quân.



Xe tăng chủ lực T-90S. Nguồn ảnh: Wikipedia
Trước đó vào tháng 4, tập đoàn xe tăng Uralvagonzavod đã rò rỉ một báo cáo cho biết một số hoạt động trong năm 2016. Trong đó, đặc biệt cho biết trước khi kết thúc năm 2017, Uralvagonzavod sẽ chuyển giao cho Việt Nam _64 xe tăng T-90S và T-90SK_. Nhưng ngay sau đó, báo cáo này đã bị gỡ khỏi trang web của tập đoàn.
Cần lưu ý rằng, Việt Nam là một trong những đối tác quan trọng nhất của Nga trong lĩnh vực hợp tác kỹ thuật-quân sự.
Đặc biệt phía Quân đội Nhân dân Việt Nam đã được trang bị 2 tiểu đoàn tên lửa phòng không S-300PMU-1, 35 máy bay chiến đấu đa năng Su-30MK2, 2 tàu hộ vệ tên lửa Gepard-3.9 ( 2 tàu tiếp theo đang đươc thử nghiệm chuẩn bị bàn giao), 2 tiều đoàn tên lửa phòng thủ bờ biển Bastion-P, cùng 6 tàu ngầm diesel-điện Kilo 636.1 và nhiều trang bị vũ khí khác.

Russia officially confirms they sell 64 t90s tanks for Vietnam

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## xiao qi

*The Vietnamese team of six high school students won four gold medals at the 2017 International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO)



*

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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> *The Vietnamese team of six high school students won four gold medals at the 2017 International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO)
> 
> 
> 
> *



Where is indonesia? How come i don't see indonesia?


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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> Where is indonesia? How come i don't see indonesia?



They are not good at math, I guess, While Thailand got the long jump to get the higher location in IMO.

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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> They are not good at math, I guess, While Thailand got the long jump to get the higher location in IMO.



I find indonesians not being good at math hard to believe. I think they just dont want to participate.


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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> I find indonesians not being good at math hard to believe. I think they just dont want to participate.


No, They attended, their rank was 31st http://imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2017


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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> No, They attended, their rank was 31st http://imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2017



Lolol. Caste system at work. All the smart indonesians are struggling to survive while all the dumbshit kids of the indonesians elites get a higher education.


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## Reashot Xigwin

TenLua said:


> Lolol. Caste system at work. All the smart indonesians are struggling to survive while all the dumbshit kids of the indonesians elites get a higher education.


Beating Israel & Germany. 31 is not a bad spot. Also contrary to what you believe its just a friendly contest.

Also caste system is dead in indonesia not even the hindu here believes in it.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Interesting news from a Thai newspaper, originally from Reuters about Vietnam that the Vietnamese media is silent about (as far as I know):
> 
> *Vietnam pollution fight hits supplier to global fashion brands*
> 
> 21 Jul 2017 at 14:17 REUTERS
> http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/ase...-fight-hits-supplier-to-global-fashion-brands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picture shows a protesting camp set by villagers to block entrance of Hong Kong's Pacific Crystal textiles factory after villagers accused the company of polluting local water in Hai Duong province, outside Hanoi on July 13. (Reuters photo)
> 
> HANOI -- Vietnamese villagers blockading a textile plant that serves global fashion brands are seeking the permanent closure of the factory due to pollution concerns, highlighting a growing readiness in Vietnam to campaign over environmental issues.
> 
> Hundreds of people from Hai Duong, 50km east of Hanoi, have kept watch in shifts day and night since April to stop work at the Pacific Crystal Textiles mill, operated by Hong Kong-based Pacific Textiles. Among those affected by the stoppage is Japanese clothing giant UNIQLO.
> 
> The blockade marks another challenge to the communist state's authority stemming from industrial pollution at a time when Vietnam is seeking more foreign investors to maintain one of Southeast Asia's highest growth rates. A toxic spill from a Taiwanese-run steel mill in central Vietnam last year sparked unprecedented protests.
> 
> The factory in Hai Duong opened in 2015 as a venture between Pacific Textiles Holdings Ltd and garment maker Crystal Group. Initial investment in the plant was reported at the time to be least US$180 million.
> 
> Villagers said they started to notice a bad smell last year.
> 
> "It was an unbearably rotten, foul, pungent smell," said 60-year-old war veteran Vu Dinh Vinh. It got worse at night.
> 
> When he and others investigated, he said, they found the smell came from water discharged from the factory. (continues below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Farmer Vu Dinh Vinh shows the place where he said villagers found waste water released by Hong Kong's Pacific Crystal textiles factory in Hai Duong province, outside Hanoi on July 13. (Reuters photo)
> 
> The company was fined 672 million dong ($30,000) for that December spill, according to a statement on the Hai Duong authority's website in February. Water was found to have breached limits for acidity and alkalinity balance, colour, total suspended solids, chemical oxygen demand and biochemical oxygen demand.
> 
> But villagers said they were still concerned, accusing the factory of continued pollution and setting up their blockade on April 12.
> 
> When a delegation from the local authority visited on Wednesday to give the villagers a three-day deadline to move, they said they were not going anywhere.
> 
> "We want to expel the factory and never let it produce again," said 70-year-old Bui Van Nguyet.
> 
> Pacific Textiles said there had been only one discharge of waste water, on Dec 24, 2016, and that it had not reached the nearby river. Villagers were wrong to say pollution had continued, it said.
> 
> Pacific Textiles' head of corporate social responsibility, Eugene Cheng, told Reuters steps had been taken to stop any discharge of waste water with the help of the local government.
> 
> "We did not understand the reason or motive behind them to shut down the factory as some of the villagers' relatives are also working for our factory," Cheng said.
> 
> *Financial impact*
> In regulatory announcements, the company has reported a "significant financial impact" because of the blockade at the factory, which had accounted for 10% of its sales.
> 
> This week, Pacific Textiles said it was waiting for the local People's Committee and industrial park to "clear the blockage".
> 
> Local authorities did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
> UNIQLO's owner, Japan's Fast Retailing, told Reuters it indirectly sourced fabric from the mill and had shifted production elsewhere for now. It said it had verified the steps Pacific Crystal had taken to remedy the situation after the spill.
> 
> "Fast Retailing is serious about running an ethical, sustainable business, and operates all supplier relationships under a strict code of conduct," spokesman Aldo Liguori said.
> 
> Fast Retailing believed the dispute with farmers related to the initial terms of the sale of the land, he said, adding that neither it nor Pacific Crystal was involved in discussions.
> 
> Villagers said the dispute with the local government over the sale of the land, which had been going on for more than a decade, was a separate issue.
> 
> "This is entirely about pollution," said Vinh.
> 
> Pacific Textiles did not specify which customers it supplied from the factory but its website says it has relationships with brands including Calvin Klein and Victoria's Secret. The latter's owner, L Brands, told Reuters no production for any of its brands came from the plant. Calvin Klein owner PVH Corp did not respond to an emailed request for comment.
> 
> Gap Inc said it worked with both Crystal Group and Pacific Textiles, but did not source from or work with this plant.
> 
> Attention to pollution in Vietnam has grown since last year, when a spill from a Formosa Plastics Group steel plant poisoned sea life along more than 200 km (125 miles) of coastline, prompting long-running protests.
> 
> The government has told companies they must meet environmental standards in order to stay in the country.
> 
> The state has also shown a readiness to tackle environmental campaigners, whose protests have tested the limits of strict laws to limit criticism and maintain public order. One of Vietnam's most prominent bloggers, Nguyen Ngoc Nhu Quynh, who is known by her pen name of Mother Mushroom, was jailed for 10 years this month for anti-state propaganda.


There are news and reports even in the state media, probably not in all details but they exist. striking a balance between protecting the environment and generating jobs is the key. Factory closures are too extreme measures, not sure if we achieve everything from closing down factories. Likely not. There are lots of technologies available nowadays to make every dirty technology clean, keeping country clean. Look, VN produces shoes and sells them to 100 countries. There are 100 other countries we want to export our shoes too.

http://www.plenglish.com/index.php?o=rn&id=15821&SEO=vietnam-sells-shoes-to-50-percent-of-the-world

Ok a bit off topic


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## Viet

Some news (maybe reposted)

100mm mortar made by z125 factory







Camouflage net produced by z176 factory, immun against radar waves and infrared sensors







"Russia has delivered considerable amounts of equipment to Vietnam and will in the future continue to support Vietnam in establishing submarine and logistics-technical facilities," said S. Ladgin on the sidelines of the MAKS 2017 aviation exhibition taking place in Russia.











Vietnam considers establishing a special naval aviation arm to better protect the Marine Corps and surface warships. That would require more investment into the airforce.











Russia wants to increase military presence in Camranh bay, so according to the words of Aleksandr Mikheev - General director of Rosoboronexport. That would require Russia to strengthen air defense in the bay.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Lolol. Caste system at work. All the smart indonesians are struggling to survive while all the dumbshit kids of the indonesians elites get a higher education.


Their country their system as long as they don't act against Vietnam, it is fine. the Indonesians play important role in keeping the Chinese in check. I laugh falling from the chair when reading they rename parts of the SC sea. Deputy Prime Minister Vương Đình Huệ on a visit to Jakarta with agreements to increase trades and bilateral cooperations.











@madokafc

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## Carlosa

Got this from Twitter:

"Crisis Escalation: China has deployed HYSY-760 drillship and several escort ships to Vanguard Bank in the South China Sea".

That's the area where the Spanish company is drilling.


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## TenLua

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Beating Israel & Germany. 31 is not a bad spot. Also contrary to what you believe its just a friendly contest.
> 
> Also caste system is dead in indonesia not even the hindu here believes in it.



Why do you guys keep claiming that its dead when there are indonesians here, in the US, who are saying it is very much alive? Here is what they are telling me: if you are born into a lower caste, no matter what your achievements in life, you will still be looked down up by those in a higher caste. He's from Bali. Diatmika.


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## Svantana

TenLua said:


> Why do you guys keep claiming that its dead when there are indonesians here, in the US, who are saying it is very much alive? Here is what they are telling me: if you are born into a lower caste, no matter what your achievements in life, you will still be looked down up by those in a higher caste. He's from Bali. Diatmika.



First of all, congrats Vietnam brother and sis for IMO 2017 result





_Bali province shown in green compare to map of Indonesia 
_
Bali is the one and only hindu majority province in Indonesia and actually cannot represent all of Indonesian culture... Bali just one of 33 Indonesian provinces... Bali just minority compare to whole Indonesian culture... Indonesia is multicultural nation and we preserve and respect that condition. even our national motto was Bhinneka Tunggal Ika (Old Javanese language) it mean Unity In Diversity in English.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Indonesia
http://www.discover-bali-indonesia.com/encyclopedia-caste-system-of-hinduism.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balinese_caste_system

Yes they are caste system there in Bali but not rigid as hell in current time, outside Bali province... Caste system was dead.... Any people can be everything they want as long as they capable no matter where they came from. even current Indonesian president Mr. Joko Widodo came from simple ordinary furniture businessman family.

Actually now Bali one of best tourist destination in the world, feel free to visit

http://www.businesstoday.in/current...ourist-destination-for-2017/story/248541.html
https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Destinations-cTop-g1














Viet said:


> Their country their system as long as they don't act against Vietnam, it is fine. the Indonesians play important role in keeping the Chinese in check. I laugh falling from the chair when reading they rename parts of the SC sea. Deputy Prime Minister Vương Đình Huệ on a visit to Jakarta with agreements to increase trades and bilateral cooperations.
> 
> View attachment 413333
> 
> View attachment 413334
> 
> 
> @madokafc


Hope this article can help to explain why Indonesia publish the new maritime map.

*Government establishes updated Indonesian map*
15th July 2017 | 1.828 Views

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The government has established the newly updated Indonesian map after a series of discussions since Oct 2016, an official of the Coordinating Ministry for Maritime Affairs said.

The updated map includes some changes and improvements based on the international law on maritime boundaries with neighboring countries, the ministrys deputy on maritime sovereignty Arif Havas Oegroseno stated here on Friday.

"There are some factors behind these changes, including the newly signed boundary agreement between Indonesia and Singapore that had already been ratified by the parliament," he noted.

The agreement on maritime boundary with the Philippines on the overlapped economic exclusive zone in Sulawesi Sea and Mindanao Sea had also been ratified.

"It would take effect soon," he added.

The updated Indonesian map has also implemented the international arbitration courts ruling on South China Sea dispute between China and the Philippines.

"The ruling has an international law jurisprudence which states that small island or coral island in the sea that is not part of an islands country will not deserve the 200 miles of the economic exclusive zone," he remarked.

Changes were also made in the Malacca Strait map, with simplification on its boundary to ease law enforcement and sea monitoring.

"And in the area close to Indonesia and Singapore, we have a clear boundary, and this has to be included in the updated map," Havas explained.

The last update of the Indonesian map was in 2005. The map would need further update to adjust with developments reached with neighboring countries on border agreements.

"We have to continuously update the map. We would submit the updated map and the agreed boundaries to the UN," he revealed.

The map update was conducted by representatives of 21 state institutions.

The Coordinating Ministry of Maritime Affairs would soon disseminate the updated Indonesian map to other institutions.(*)
http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/111862/government-establishes-updated-indonesian-map

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## TenLua

Svantana said:


> First of all, congrats Vietnam brother and sis for IMO 2017 result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Bali province shown in green compare to map of Indonesia
> _
> Bali is the one and only hindu majority province in Indonesia and actually cannot represent all of Indonesian culture... Bali just one of 33 Indonesian provinces... Bali just minority compare to whole Indonesian culture... Indonesia is multicultural nation and we preserve and respect that condition. even our national motto was Bhinneka Tunggal Ika (Old Javanese language) it mean Unity In Diversity in English.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Indonesia
> http://www.discover-bali-indonesia.com/encyclopedia-caste-system-of-hinduism.html
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balinese_caste_system
> 
> Yes they are caste system there in Bali but not rigid as hell in current time, outside Bali province... Caste system was dead.... Any people can be everything they want as long as they capable no matter where they came from. even current Indonesian president Mr. Joko Widodo came from simple ordinary furniture businessman family.
> 
> Actually now Bali one of best tourist destination in the world, feel free to visit
> 
> http://www.businesstoday.in/current...ourist-destination-for-2017/story/248541.html
> https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Destinations-cTop-g1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this article can help to explain why Indonesia publish the new maritime map.
> 
> *Government establishes updated Indonesian map*
> 15th July 2017 | 1.828 Views
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The government has established the newly updated Indonesian map after a series of discussions since Oct 2016, an official of the Coordinating Ministry for Maritime Affairs said.
> 
> The updated map includes some changes and improvements based on the international law on maritime boundaries with neighboring countries, the ministrys deputy on maritime sovereignty Arif Havas Oegroseno stated here on Friday.
> 
> "There are some factors behind these changes, including the newly signed boundary agreement between Indonesia and Singapore that had already been ratified by the parliament," he noted.
> 
> The agreement on maritime boundary with the Philippines on the overlapped economic exclusive zone in Sulawesi Sea and Mindanao Sea had also been ratified.
> 
> "It would take effect soon," he added.
> 
> The updated Indonesian map has also implemented the international arbitration courts ruling on South China Sea dispute between China and the Philippines.
> 
> "The ruling has an international law jurisprudence which states that small island or coral island in the sea that is not part of an islands country will not deserve the 200 miles of the economic exclusive zone," he remarked.
> 
> Changes were also made in the Malacca Strait map, with simplification on its boundary to ease law enforcement and sea monitoring.
> 
> "And in the area close to Indonesia and Singapore, we have a clear boundary, and this has to be included in the updated map," Havas explained.
> 
> The last update of the Indonesian map was in 2005. The map would need further update to adjust with developments reached with neighboring countries on border agreements.
> 
> "We have to continuously update the map. We would submit the updated map and the agreed boundaries to the UN," he revealed.
> 
> The map update was conducted by representatives of 21 state institutions.
> 
> The Coordinating Ministry of Maritime Affairs would soon disseminate the updated Indonesian map to other institutions.(*)
> http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/111862/government-establishes-updated-indonesian-map



AhHhHhhhhhHHhhHhh I see. Thank for clarification.

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## Carlosa

Svantana said:


> First of all, congrats Vietnam brother and sis for IMO 2017 result
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Bali province shown in green compare to map of Indonesia
> _
> Bali is the one and only hindu majority province in Indonesia and actually cannot represent all of Indonesian culture... Bali just one of 33 Indonesian provinces... Bali just minority compare to whole Indonesian culture... Indonesia is multicultural nation and we preserve and respect that condition. even our national motto was Bhinneka Tunggal Ika (Old Javanese language) it mean Unity In Diversity in English.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_in_Indonesia
> http://www.discover-bali-indonesia.com/encyclopedia-caste-system-of-hinduism.html
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balinese_caste_system
> 
> Yes they are caste system there in Bali but not rigid as hell in current time, outside Bali province... Caste system was dead.... Any people can be everything they want as long as they capable no matter where they came from. even current Indonesian president Mr. Joko Widodo came from simple ordinary furniture businessman family.
> 
> Actually now Bali one of best tourist destination in the world, feel free to visit
> 
> http://www.businesstoday.in/current...ourist-destination-for-2017/story/248541.html
> https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Destinations-cTop-g1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope this article can help to explain why Indonesia publish the new maritime map.
> 
> *Government establishes updated Indonesian map*
> 15th July 2017 | 1.828 Views
> 
> Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The government has established the newly updated Indonesian map after a series of discussions since Oct 2016, an official of the Coordinating Ministry for Maritime Affairs said.
> 
> The updated map includes some changes and improvements based on the international law on maritime boundaries with neighboring countries, the ministrys deputy on maritime sovereignty Arif Havas Oegroseno stated here on Friday.
> 
> "There are some factors behind these changes, including the newly signed boundary agreement between Indonesia and Singapore that had already been ratified by the parliament," he noted.
> 
> The agreement on maritime boundary with the Philippines on the overlapped economic exclusive zone in Sulawesi Sea and Mindanao Sea had also been ratified.
> 
> "It would take effect soon," he added.
> 
> The updated Indonesian map has also implemented the international arbitration courts ruling on South China Sea dispute between China and the Philippines.
> 
> "The ruling has an international law jurisprudence which states that small island or coral island in the sea that is not part of an islands country will not deserve the 200 miles of the economic exclusive zone," he remarked.
> 
> Changes were also made in the Malacca Strait map, with simplification on its boundary to ease law enforcement and sea monitoring.
> 
> "And in the area close to Indonesia and Singapore, we have a clear boundary, and this has to be included in the updated map," Havas explained.
> 
> The last update of the Indonesian map was in 2005. The map would need further update to adjust with developments reached with neighboring countries on border agreements.
> 
> "We have to continuously update the map. We would submit the updated map and the agreed boundaries to the UN," he revealed.
> 
> The map update was conducted by representatives of 21 state institutions.
> 
> The Coordinating Ministry of Maritime Affairs would soon disseminate the updated Indonesian map to other institutions.(*)
> http://www.antaranews.com/en/news/111862/government-establishes-updated-indonesian-map



I think it was a good idea to change the name of that area of the sea, if nothing else, Its an small step in the right direction, the chinese are using the "South China Sea" name as another excuse for their claims and even in chinese language is known as the "South Sea". Its an incorrect name that comes from Portuguese colonial times. It would be good if western countries were to agree on a different name. I think South Asean / South East Asean Sea would be a good one or something like that.

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## Viet

Thing gets clearer a bit. Phu Quoc island lying in the gulf of Thailand will become Vietnam 's major storing base for crude oil. Thanks in part to our Arab friend in Abu Dhabi. Oil tankers coming from Middle East will unload their crudes there. The Navy should strengthen her presence in the Gulf.

http://gulfbusiness.com/abu-dhabis-baron-point-petroleum-signs-joint-venture-150m-vietnam-terminal/

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## Carlosa

Beijing rig HYSY760 with escort fleet approaching Tu Chinh (near Con Dao) and intends to illegally enter Vietnamese territorial waters.

CN is deploying HYSY-760 survey ship & 40 escort vessels to south Vanguard Bank (bloc 136) at southern edge of VN EEZ, where VN is drilling

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## TenLua

Only in china. Fucking worthless pieces of shits.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Got this from Twitter:
> 
> "Crisis Escalation: China has deployed HYSY-760 drillship and several escort ships to Vanguard Bank in the South China Sea".
> 
> That's the area where the Spanish company is drilling.


I don't believe the Chinese are keen on a three-front war with Vietnam/Japan/India. Anyway the region around vanguard is fully under our control. Previous western reports say the islands and waters are guarded by 1,000 Marines equipped by all calibers of artillery, and as bonbon for potential aggressor: EXTRA land attack missiles stationed on 5 positions.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I don't believe the Chinese are keen on a three-front war with Vietnam/Japan/India. Anyway the region around vanguard is fully under our control. Previous western reports say the islands and waters are guarded by 1,000 Marines equipped by all calibers of artillery, and as bonbon for potential aggressor: EXTRA land attack missiles stationed on 5 positions.
> 
> View attachment 413491



I understand, but if the chinese are going there with so many ships, Its not going to be for a friendly visit.

Water festival 2017 coming up.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> I understand, but if the chinese are going there with so many ships, Its not going to be for a friendly visit.
> 
> Water festival 2017 coming up.


well, waiting for a new update, but Con Dao island is only far away from Vung Tau province of Vietnam 160km. Vietnam already dispatched 30 coast guard ships to " chat" with neighbor





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> well, waiting for a new update, but Con Dao island is only far away from Vung Tau province of Vietnam 160km. Vietnam already dispatched 30 coast guard ships to " chat" with neighbor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/



Very good to know sister Xiao, please post any new information you find.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I understand, but if the chinese are going there with so many ships, Its not going to be for a friendly visit.
> 
> Water festival 2017 coming up.


We are used to their numerous superiority. Nor a problem either if all parties play with water. Sometimes it is just too boring.

VN needs huge energy imports in the years to come, hence there is a need to secure more resources not only crude oil from Middle East. The Philippines for instance seeks partners for a LNG project, I wish VN companies can team up with Japan and participate. We look for liquid natural gas providers. Why not the Philippines?

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tre...-one-exports-of-gas-fired-power-plants?page=1

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## Viet

Apropos Japan, this year the incoming "Vietnam Festa 2017" in Yokohama city from September 15 to 17 aims to set a new record in attracting more 400,000 Japanese visitors.


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## Carlosa

Reports from Hanoi: VN halts drilling in its EEZ after China "threatened to attack VN bases in Spratly's."

Repsol executives were told by Hanoi that China had threatened to attack Vietnamese bases in the Spratly Islands if the drilling did not stop.

VN blinked.

The balance of power is very clear and VN knows it. As I said many times here, those islands are indefensible, China can take them any time it wants and there is nothing that VN can do to stop them. VN can retaliate but that would bring chinese retaliation to the Vietnamese mainland. That's the reality on the ground.

China had already threatened PH with war if they explored for oil. Now PH will be next to back down.

The chinese are not playing water wars any more, now they issue hard core threats.
There is only one power that can stop this behavior.
Its time for VN to rethink the concept of no alliances.
Its time for some people in Hanoi to stop thinking about Beijing as their "comrades".

Indonesia better take note of this. The Malaka Strait will be their next objective after they consolidate their control of SCS. Not now, but later........

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Reports from Hanoi: VN halts drilling in its EEZ after China "threatened to attack VN bases in Spratly's."
> 
> Repsol executives were told by Hanoi that China had threatened to attack Vietnamese bases in the Spratly Islands if the drilling did not stop.
> 
> VN blinked.
> 
> The balance of power is very clear and VN knows it. As I said many times here, those islands are indefensible, China can take them any time it wants and there is nothing that VN can do to stop them. VN can retaliate but that would bring chinese retaliation to the Vietnamese mainland. That's the reality on the ground.
> 
> China had already threatened PH with war if they explored for oil. Now PH will be next to back down.
> 
> The chinese are not playing water wars any more, now they issue hard core threats.
> There is only one power that can stop this behavior.
> Its time for VN to rethink the concept of no alliances.
> Its time for some people in Hanoi to stop thinking about Beijing as their "comrades".
> 
> Indonesia better take note of this. The Malaka Strait will be their next objective after they consolidate their control of SCS. Not now, but later........


Ok that's a new game if they threaten with war. No more water cannons. Ok we blink and rethink. However the Chinese should understand they shouldn't overplay their cards. I have long promoted we seek a security guarantee from a military partner.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40701121

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Ok that's a new game if they threaten with war. No more water cannons. Ok we blink and rethink. However the Chinese should understand they shouldn't overplay their cards. I have long promoted we seek a security guarantee from a military partner.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40701121



Is in the chinese nature at this time to overplay, they are doing the same with India right now. They are intoxicated with power and think they can get away with anything. Maybe it'll work for them or not, it really depends on other players. USA has been trying to get cooperation from China on North Korea, so it has gone easy on China in SCS until now, but probably not for long. We'll have to see.

The reality in a chinese centric world is that unless you are powerful enough or you have security guarantees from a big power, you have to understand where your place is and accept that they call the shots and you are either subservient to them to some degree or you become a client state as the worst outcome.

Until now VN has been able to jokey around and play middle ground, but that's not working anymore and as the chinese get more powerful, it will only get worse. Only a "real" alliance can change that situation (assuming the other party will agree to such alliance). If USA were to decide to forcefully intervene in SCS and stop chinese behavior, even using force if needed, which is a possibility, then VN can still play the middle ground, but only in such situation, otherwise, accommodation.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Is in the chinese nature at this time to overplay, they are doing the same with India right now. They are intoxicated with power and think they can get away with anything. Maybe it'll work for them or not, it really depends on other players. USA has been trying to get cooperation from China on North Korea, so it has gone easy on China in SCS until now, but probably not for long. We'll have to see.
> 
> The reality in a chinese centric world is that unless you are powerful enough or you have security guarantees from a big power, you have to understand where your place is and accept that they call the shots and you are either subservient to them to some degree or you become a client state as the worst outcome.
> 
> Until now VN has been able to jokey around and play middle ground, but that's not working anymore and as the chinese get more powerful, it will only get worse. Only a "real" alliance can change that situation (assuming the other party will agree to such alliance). If USA were to decide to forcefully intervene in SCS and stop chinese behavior, even using force if needed, which is a possibility, then VN can still play the middle ground, but only in such situation, otherwise, accommodation.


The Chinese believe themselves being a superpower after launching one aircraft carrier and one missile destroyer. I don't say we should do the same as our people have thousand years old habit to follow our Chinese brothers whatever they do including bad habit.

Co To Island in the gulf of Tonkin, previously just a paradise for sharks now buildings and infrastructure. We will do in hundreds other islands.

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## terranMarine

Wow VN is so brave now by obeying China's direct order


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## TenLua

terranMarine said:


> View attachment 413597
> 
> 
> View attachment 413598
> 
> 
> View attachment 413599
> 
> 
> Wow VN is so brave now by obeying China's direct order



VN is going to conquer china. There is no way around it. 

And you're still a pussy.


----------



## Viet

Land Platforms
*Vietnam confirms order of Russian T-90 tanks*
*Jon Grevatt* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
24 July 2017





A Russian T-90S MBT fitted with Shtora defensive aids suite. Source: Uralvagonzavod

Vietnam has ordered 64 T-90S/SK main battle tanks (MBTs) from Russia, state-run news agencies in Hanoi confirmed on 21 July.

The reports, which cited comments from Russian defence officials who were speaking at a press conference at the MAKS-2017 aerospace exhibition in Moscow, said that the acquisition will be funded by credit provided by Moscow.

_Jane’s_ first reported in early July that Russian tank manufacturer UralVagonZavod revealed in its annual report that it had secured an order from Vietnam for the T-90S/SK MBTs. The T-90S is the basic export model, while the 'K' postfix is a reference to command versions.

The value of the T-90 deal was not disclosed but is thought to be about USD250 million. The investment represents the first major order of new MBTs that the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) has secured for many years. Investment over the past decade and more has been firmly focused on modernising the Vietnamese navy and air force.

In addition to the MBTs, the reports said Vietnam is also positioned to procure from Russia four S-400 Triumf missile systems to boost surface-to-air missile capability and MiG-35 multirole combat aircraft to replace the Vietnam People’s Air Force’s (VPAF’s) MiG-21 fighters, which are now thought to have been retired.

The number of Su-35s that the VPAF is looking to procure was not revealed, although the service previously operated more than 30 MiG-21s and is known to require significant additional numbers of fighter aircraft to enhance air combat capability.

To support these purchases and others, the state news agencies in Hanoi reported that Russia’s defence industry is looking to expand its presence in Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

terranMarine said:


> View attachment 413597
> 
> 
> View attachment 413598
> 
> 
> View attachment 413599
> 
> 
> Wow VN is so brave now by obeying China's direct order



No worries, all bullies meet their maker eventually and the more that China acts this way, the more that everybody will see China for what it is and that will build up blowback, just a matter of time kid.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> View attachment 413597
> 
> 
> View attachment 413598
> 
> 
> View attachment 413599
> 
> 
> Wow VN is so brave now by obeying China's direct order


Means little. It's just a tactical halt and the drilling can continue by tomorrow. I had expected you have learned a bit from history. We are not a country you can intimidate. Not that we are forced to take extreme measures, everybody will lose at the end of the day. You don't want to put China's fate on the poker table for nothing, do you?

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## Aqsuperman

Well China used to believe they are the king of Ancient World until.........you know..........England and Japan swing by and say hi. And back in WW2, Chinese praise their troops and leaders for trying to avoid confrontation in face of enemy provokes, well guess who is the side that keep provoking others now, fantasizing "You must be taking China order so that is why you back down" . 

Every Chinese roam around treating everyone around them as some sort servants or lesser subjects. Well i say "What goes around comes around" , maybe not now, not tomorrow or even the next decade. But when it does, i will be there watching and humbling "Burn, baby burn" 

In another practical matter, the coast guard start equipping camouflage net as a standard issue to small and medium boat. Good for hiding, scouting or even dropping navy divers into "contesting water"

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## Viet

Donald Trump has just approved a plan to give the US Navy more free hands in operation in the SC Sea. Good move! @Suika, if your warships need resupply and maintenance, feel free to visit Vietnamese ports 

http://m.timesofindia.com/world/chi...-south-china-sea/amp_articleshow/59716369.cms

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Well China used to believe they are the king of Ancient World until.........you know..........England and Japan swing by and say hi. And back in WW2, Chinese praise their troops and leaders for trying to avoid confrontation in face of enemy provokes, well guess who is the side that keep provoking others now, fantasizing "You must be taking China order so that is why you back down" .



And lets not even talk about what the Mongols did to the chinese.

Today, 2 J-10 fighter jets buzzed an American plane, good, keep going like that, when the Americans have enough...................


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Land Platforms
> *Vietnam confirms order of Russian T-90 tanks*
> *Jon Grevatt* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
> 24 July 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Russian T-90S MBT fitted with Shtora defensive aids suite. Source: Uralvagonzavod
> 
> Vietnam has ordered 64 T-90S/SK main battle tanks (MBTs) from Russia, state-run news agencies in Hanoi confirmed on 21 July.
> 
> The reports, which cited comments from Russian defence officials who were speaking at a press conference at the MAKS-2017 aerospace exhibition in Moscow, said that the acquisition will be funded by credit provided by Moscow.
> 
> _Jane’s_ first reported in early July that Russian tank manufacturer UralVagonZavod revealed in its annual report that it had secured an order from Vietnam for the T-90S/SK MBTs. The T-90S is the basic export model, while the 'K' postfix is a reference to command versions.
> 
> The value of the T-90 deal was not disclosed but is thought to be about USD250 million. The investment represents the first major order of new MBTs that the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) has secured for many years. Investment over the past decade and more has been firmly focused on modernising the Vietnamese navy and air force.
> 
> In addition to the MBTs, the reports said Vietnam is also positioned to procure from Russia four S-400 Triumf missile systems to boost surface-to-air missile capability and MiG-35 multirole combat aircraft to replace the Vietnam People’s Air Force’s (VPAF’s) MiG-21 fighters, which are now thought to have been retired.
> 
> The number of Su-35s that the VPAF is looking to procure was not revealed, although the service previously operated more than 30 MiG-21s and is known to require significant additional numbers of fighter aircraft to enhance air combat capability.
> 
> To support these purchases and others, the state news agencies in Hanoi reported that Russia’s defence industry is looking to expand its presence in Vietnam.



Well, that's 3.9 million per tank, that sounds right, but for 4.5 million I think the T-90MS offers a lot more capability. Oh well, have to start somewhere.

The 4 S-400 was already expected, but I think the article has a typo when it first said Mig-35 and later SU-35. As I understand, it should be the SU-35. What do you think @Aqsuperman ?

The MIG-35 just came out, too soon to be selected and since its basically A MIG-29 on steroids and the MIG-29Ks that India is receiving have a lot of problems, I don't think VN would be rushing to select that aircraft. On the other hand, I've seen very reliable intel about the selection of the SU-35 from Russian sources.

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## Aqsuperman

I personally think that the Su-35 is probably what the author mean too. The VPAF and lots of other airforces have been eyeing the bird for year and its already operational while Mig-35 prospect is kind of weak up until recently and only 1 foreign airforce beside Russia want to buy them. So yeah, my vote on the Su-35. Need to keep up to our "lovely neighbor" in the region too, right ?

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> I personally think that the Su-35 is probably what the author mean too. The VPAF and lots of other airforces have been eyeing the bird for year and its already operational while Mig-35 prospect is kind of weak up until recently and only 1 foreign airforce beside Russia want to buy them. So yeah, my vote on the Su-35. Need to keep up to our "lovely neighbor" in the region too, right ?



Absolutely. Yes, that's what I thought too. I imagine that it will be a batch of 12 SU-35s to start. 

I used to hear a lot about the SU-30SM too, but now I'm not sure anymore if that one will come as a complement to the SU-35. There was some interest on the SU-34 at one point, but I think its over now. The navy was also interested in the MIG-29K until not long ago, but the problems of that aircraft in India I think took care of that. Have you heard anything recently about any of these options?


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## Aqsuperman

Sadly, no. And i think the VPAF focus a lot on its interception force and simple maintain than purpose - design for ground support so we are less likely to include either the Su 34 or the Mig 29K. The Su-30SM is a good fall back position though since its a two seater aircraft which ease the pilot burden and no need for serious conversion program while SU-35 is a single seater.

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## Carlosa

Aqsuperman said:


> Sadly, no. And i think the VPAF focus a lot on its interception force and simple maintain than purpose - design for ground support so we are less likely to include either the Su 34 or the Mig 29K. The Su-30SM is a good fall back position though since its a two seater aircraft which ease the pilot burden and no need for serious conversion program while SU-35 is a single seater.



I also feel the SU-30SM is the natural follow on to the SU-30MK-2 and since VN pilots are training in India with the SU-30MK-1, there must be something planned about that I would think.

Oh well, there is only so much money to go around.

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## Carlosa

*Alarming Escalation in the South China Sea: China Threatens Force if Vietnam Continues Oil Exploration in Spratlys*
A new pattern of Chinese bellicosity?






By Carl Thayer
July 24, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/alar...ietnam-continues-oil-exploration-in-spratlys/

On July 15, well-informed sources in Hanoi privately reported that Vietnam directed a subsidiary of Spain’s Repsol to suspend oil drilling in block 136-03 in the South China Sea. Nine days later a report by the BBC’s Bill Hayton finally confirmed this.

According to the BBC, Vietnam informed Repsol executives last week that “China had threatened to attack Vietnamese bases in the Spratly Islands if the drilling did not stop.” Vietnamese government officials directed Repsol to leave the area.

While there has been some dispute among observers about the commercial viability of block 136-03, the BBC reported that Repsol confirmed the discovery of a major gas field only a few days ago.

For the past two and a half years Vietnam has moved cautiously in its oil exploration activities in the Spratlys following the HD 981 crisis in mid-2014. Early this year there was a marked change. Vietnam signed its largest gas exploration contract with ExxonMobil to develop the Blue Whale project and Vietnam lifted restrictions on exploration in block 136-03.

The ExxonMobil deal was given much publicity, while the go ahead to Repsol was kept under wraps.

Vietnam’s actions aroused China’s ire. General Fan Changlong, deputy chair of the Central Military Commission, visited Madrid in June and raised Repsol’s drilling activities according to private reports. Then General Fan flew to Hanoi to discuss plans for the fourth friendly border exchange activities. In his meeting with Vietnam’s top leadership General Fan requested a halt to oil and gas exploration. He stated both sides should “abide by the important consensus reached by the leaders of the two countries and the two parties.”

Vietnam’s leaders reportedly pushed back and defended Vietnam’s right to sovereign jurisdiction in their Exclusive Economic Zone. This angered General Fan, who cancelled China’s participation in the border exchange activities and abruptly left the country.

The BBC report that China threatened to attack Vietnamese-occupied features in the South China Sea if the drilling did not stop is an alarming escalation of Chinese assertiveness and forms part of an emerging pattern of increased Chinese bellicosity.

On 19 May, for example, Reuters reported the following conversation between presidents Rodrigo Duterte and Xi Jinping in Beijing four days earlier:

_“We intend to drill oil there, if it’s yours, well, that’s your view, but my view is, I can drill the oil, if there is some inside the bowels of the earth because it is ours,” Duterte said in a speech, recalling his conversation with Xi._

_“His response to me, ‘we’re friends, we don’t want to quarrel with you, we want to maintain the presence of warm relationship, but if you force the issue, we’ll go to war.”_

In July, China publicly protested when Vietnam extended India’s ONGC’s lease in Block 128 in the South China Sea.

China’s threat to use force against the Philippines and Vietnam has major ramifications for energy security in these two countries. Both need to develop hydrocarbons to meet growing domestic energy demand.

China’s threat to use force also raises the risks for foreign oil companies currently operating in the South China Sea. If they cannot count on the host country to provide protection, they are likely to cut bait and run because of the increased risks.

China’s threat raises a nightmare scenario in particular for Vietnam’s leaders because it would be a test of its policy of cooperation and struggle with China. Vietnam’s leaders will quickly come to learn that giving in to China on one point will lead China to press on another.

Any attack on a Vietnamese-occupied feature in the South China Sea would result is a massive eruption of anti-Chinese sentiment in Vietnam. This could seriously undermine the political authority of the current regime and an anti-China leadership would result in a prolonged estrangement in bilateral relations.

In the midst of the HD 981 crisis in 2014, for example, sixty-one retired senior Vietnamese officials called on their leadership to take legal action against China, to exit China’s orbit (_thoat Trung_) and to abandon the policy of three nos (no foreign alliances, no foreign bases, and no use of Vietnam to harm the interests of a third country).

Any Chinese attack on Vietnam would set off alarm bells all over the region. Regional states would split between those willing to accommodate to China and those who would seek the support of external powers to maintain the balance of power.

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) would find it difficult to mount more than a diplomatic response calling on the parties concerned to settle the dispute peacefully. Capitulationists like Duterte could seriously impair ASEAN consensus. One of the first casualties would be the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea.

The U.S. could have its hand forced if China threatened ExxonMobil. When Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc met President Donald Trump at the White House on 31 May, they issued a joint statement that included a long paragraph on the South China Sea that said in part:

_The two leaders underscored the importance of freedom of navigation and overflight and other lawful uses of the seas, and noted with concern the destabilizing impacts that unlawful restrictions to the freedom of the seas have on peace and prosperity in the Asia–Pacific region. The two sides also affirmed full support for the peaceful resolution of disputes without the threat or use of force or coercion, in accordance with international law… President Trump stressed that the United States will continue to fly, sail, and operate anywhere international law allows._

Any Chinese attack on Vietnam would be like throwing down the gauntlet to the United States, Japan, and other maritime powers. They would face some tough questions: do they really to protect Vietnam’s oil industry or go to war with China over a few little rocks in the South China Sea?

China’s threat to use force against Vietnam will accelerate the ongoing strategic debate in the United States and other allied capitals about how to halt if not reverse China’s continued militarization of the South China Sea.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, that's 3.9 million per tank, that sounds right, but for 4.5 million I think the T-90MS offers a lot more capability. Oh well, have to start somewhere.
> 
> The 4 S-400 was already expected, but I think the article has a typo when it first said Mig-35 and later SU-35. As I understand, it should be the SU-35. What do you think @Aqsuperman ?
> 
> The MIG-35 just came out, too soon to be selected and since its basically A MIG-29 on steroids and the MIG-29Ks that India is receiving have a lot of problems, I don't think VN would be rushing to select that aircraft. On the other hand, I've seen very reliable intel about the selection of the SU-35 from Russian sources.


We need more than 64 T90 tanks, so whatever version the first batch is purchased, the second batch could be different.

I believe Mig35 is under consideration for the Mig21 replacement. Su35 is good too, at the end no matter what fighter aircraft, we need more in numbers. The Russians now need to put an attractive offer on the table then we go.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Means little. It's just a tactical halt and the drilling can continue by tomorrow.



It appears that indeed, that may be the case.

Repsol General Director confirmed that the PVN-Repsol joint venture is halting operation at Block 136-Tu Chinh, the reason given is due to safety reasons because of the weather / typhoon season.

The drilling will start again in November 17 or sooner.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> It appears that indeed, that may be the case.
> 
> Repsol General Director confirmed that the PVN-Repsol joint venture is halting operation at Block 136-Tu Chinh, the reason given is due to safety reasons because of the weather / typhoon season.
> 
> The drilling will start again in November 17 or sooner.


perfect. the chinese should rather cooperate with vietnam instead of seeking confrontation. how about buying the evil US properties? last year 2016, Vietnamese nationals bought for $3 billion US homes, surpassing the Japanese. Remarkable because the Japanese are rich, while Vietnamese are not poor but not rich either. The second remarkable thing is the Chinese bought $31 billion US properties although they condemn the US every day, lobprising the communist Chinese paradise.

a stats of foreign buyers (US Residential Real Estate 2016)


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## gambit

Aqsuperman said:


> Sadly, no. And i think the VPAF focus a lot on its interception force and simple maintain than purpose - design for ground support so we are less likely to include either the Su 34 or the Mig 29K. *The Su-30SM is a good fall back position though since its a two seater aircraft which ease the pilot burden* and no need for serious conversion program while SU-35 is a single seater.


Having two operators does not mean it is preferable.

I know...I know...The F-15E Strike Eagle which is a two-seater.

When the USAF wanted a heavier ground strike aircraft, the F-15 platform was the logical choice. But the problem was that the platform was already 'locked in', meaning it would take a lot of money and time to modify the existing single seat version to perform strike missions while keeping the single seat. The less expensive choice, believe it or not, was to stretch the airframe a little bit and slightly modify the avionics to allow a second operator to perform additional duties. The more expensive alternative was to actually make an entirely new strike aircraft.

The goal of avionics is to remove as much flying burden from the pilot as possible and allow the pilot to be the decision maker and killer. It is contrary to decades of aviation. But if you look at civilian airliners, you will see that evolution. Today's airliners can practically take off and land themselves, leaving the aircrew more managers and less pilots.

This is not to say that the 30SM is a 'bad' fighter. Am only pointing out the fact that in combat aviation, the two-seater is not always the way to go.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> Having two operators does not mean it is preferable.
> 
> I know...I know...The F-15E Strike Eagle which is a two-seater.
> 
> When the USAF wanted a heavier ground strike aircraft, the F-15 platform was the logical choice. But the problem was that the platform was already 'locked in', meaning it would take a lot of money and time to modify the existing single seat version to perform strike missions while keeping the single seat. The less expensive choice, believe it or not, was to stretch the airframe a little bit and slightly modify the avionics to allow a second operator to perform additional duties. The more expensive alternative was to actually make an entirely new strike aircraft.
> 
> The goal of avionics is to remove as much flying burden from the pilot as possible and allow the pilot to be the decision maker and killer. It is contrary to decades of aviation. But if you look at civilian airliners, you will see that evolution. Today's airliners can practically take off and land themselves, leaving the aircrew more managers and less pilots.
> 
> This is not to say that the 30SM is a 'bad' fighter. Am only pointing out the fact that in combat aviation, the two-seater is not always the way to go.



Obviously you are the expert on this, but I wonder, if the aircraft is tasked with the extra burden of locating and attacking ground targets in a contested environment, would that be taxing the pilot quite a bit, or can be handled quite ok? The Indians are very happy with the 2 seater and they also want to change their upcoming PAK-FA fighter from the 1 seater Russian configuration to a 2 seater. Just wondering.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam says Indonesian navy shot its fishermen in disputed water*
By Reuters/Mai Nguyen July 24, 2017 

*Four Vietnamese fishermen were shot on Saturday night, two of them seriously wounded. *
Indonesia's navy shot and wounded four Vietnamese fishermen aboard a fishing boat in the South China Sea (which Vietnam calls the East Sea) aat the weekend, Vietnamese authorities said.

The Vietnamese boat was about 132 nautical miles (245 km) southeast of Vietnam's Con Dao Island when the fishermen were shot on Saturday night, the Binh Dinh provincial search and rescue committee said on its website.

Disputes over fishing rights and oil drilling have stoked tension in the East Sea, through which about $5 trillion in goods is shipped each year.

China claims almost the entire sea, but Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan also have claims.

Although Indonesia says it is not a party to the dispute, it recently renamed the northern reaches of its exclusive economic zone, asserting its own maritime claim.

The coordinates given by the Vietnamese indicated that the shooting happened close to the area Indonesia now calls the North Natuna Sea.

The Vietnamese authorities said two of the fishermen had been seriously wounded. They were taken to Con Dao Island for treatment.

Sahono Budianto, an official at Indonesia's ministry of marine affairs and fisheries, said he was not aware of the alleged shooting.

Indonesia's navy did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Indonesia has sunk hundreds of mostly foreign boats caught illegally fishing in its waters since President Joko Widodo launched a battle against the poaching of fish in 2014.

Indonesia and Vietnam said in May they would launch a joint investigation after reports that Vietnamese coast guards had tried to forcibly free five fishing boats and their crew detained in waters near Indonesia's Natuna Islands.


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## Carlosa

*Indonesian navy denies it shot and wounded four Vietnamese fishermen*
*http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...it-shot-and-wounded-four-vietnamese-fishermen
*
JAKARTA - The Indonesia navy has refuted claims by Hanoi that it shot and wounded four fishermen aboard a Vietnam-flagged fishing boat in the South China Sea last weekend.

Navy spokesperson Colonel Gig Sipasulta said a patrol on Sunday (July 23) intercepted two Vietnamese fishing boats suspected of poaching in Indonesia's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), north of the Natunas, and chased them away by firing warning shots in the air.

"As such, there is no truth to Vietnam's statement," Col. Gig told The Jakarta Post in a report out on Tuesday (July 25).

"The navy always provides a measured response in accordance with protocol."

The officer was responding to news reports quoting the disaster and relief agency of Vietnam's central Binh Dinh province that four Vietnamese fisherman were shot and wounded by Indonesia's navy over the weekend during a stand-off in disputed waters off the South China Sea.

According to reports out of Hanoi, their fishing boat was brought back to Vietnam's Con Dao island early Monday morning and the wounded men were rushed to hospital.

"Two seriously injured sailors were sent to the Con Dao district's medical centre and their situation is improving," the agency reported.

The incident apparently took place on Saturday, about 245 km southeast of its Con Dao island.

According to The Jakarta Post report, there were at least two other similar skirmishes between the Indonesian navy and Vietnam-flagged vessels last week.

They include an incident on Sunday when Indonesian patrol vessel Kapitan Pattimura made only contact with the Deepsea Metro rig just outside the Indonesian EEZ, as well as an earlier incident on Friday which resulted in the detention of another fishing boat, the TG-92816-TS for poaching.

These events follow a clash on May 21 between a Vietnamese coast guard vessel and an Indonesian maritime security patrol craft that was escorting five Vietnamese fishing boats that had been caught poaching earlier. Both sides have since resolved the incident through diplomatic channels, and had said they hoped to prevent further future incidents in the South China Sea.

They also come just a week or so after Indonesia on July 14 revealed a new map depicting an expansion to its maritime territory with the naming of the waters off its northern perimeter North Natuna Sea.

Although it lies in Indonesia's EEZ, the waters north of the Natuna Islands bordering the South China Sea have no name and are often designated, albeit loosely, as part of the latter.

Indonesia, however, is not a party to the territorial disputes in the waterway, marked by overlapping claims by Brunei, China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Taiwan.


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## Svantana

Carlosa said:


> *Indonesian navy denies it shot and wounded four Vietnamese fishermen*
> *http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...it-shot-and-wounded-four-vietnamese-fishermen
> *
> JAKARTA - The Indonesia navy has refuted claims by Hanoi that it shot and wounded four fishermen aboard a Vietnam-flagged fishing boat in the South China Sea last weekend.
> 
> Navy spokesperson Colonel Gig Sipasulta said a patrol on Sunday (July 23) intercepted two Vietnamese fishing boats suspected of poaching in Indonesia's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), north of the Natunas, and chased them away by firing warning shots in the air.
> 
> "As such, there is no truth to Vietnam's statement," Col. Gig told The Jakarta Post in a report out on Tuesday (July 25).
> 
> "The navy always provides a measured response in accordance with protocol."
> 
> The officer was responding to news reports quoting the disaster and relief agency of Vietnam's central Binh Dinh province that four Vietnamese fisherman were shot and wounded by Indonesia's navy over the weekend during a stand-off in disputed waters off the South China Sea.
> 
> According to reports out of Hanoi, their fishing boat was brought back to Vietnam's Con Dao island early Monday morning and the wounded men were rushed to hospital.
> 
> "Two seriously injured sailors were sent to the Con Dao district's medical centre and their situation is improving," the agency reported.
> 
> The incident apparently took place on Saturday, about 245 km southeast of its Con Dao island.
> 
> According to The Jakarta Post report, there were at least two other similar skirmishes between the Indonesian navy and Vietnam-flagged vessels last week.
> 
> They include an incident on Sunday when Indonesian patrol vessel Kapitan Pattimura made only contact with the Deepsea Metro rig just outside the Indonesian EEZ, as well as an earlier incident on Friday which resulted in the detention of another fishing boat, the TG-92816-TS for poaching.
> 
> These events follow a clash on May 21 between a Vietnamese coast guard vessel and an Indonesian maritime security patrol craft that was escorting five Vietnamese fishing boats that had been caught poaching earlier. Both sides have since resolved the incident through diplomatic channels, and had said they hoped to prevent further future incidents in the South China Sea.
> 
> They also come just a week or so after Indonesia on July 14 revealed a new map depicting an expansion to its maritime territory with the naming of the waters off its northern perimeter North Natuna Sea.
> 
> Although it lies in Indonesia's EEZ, the waters north of the Natuna Islands bordering the South China Sea have no name and are often designated, albeit loosely, as part of the latter.
> 
> Indonesia, however, is not a party to the territorial disputes in the waterway, marked by overlapping claims by Brunei, China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Taiwan.



Tuesday July 25, 2017, 07:00 pm
*Explanation of the Navy About Vietnamese Fishermen in North Natuna Sea Incident*
Andhika Prasetia - detikNews

Jakarta - The Indonesian Navy denies accusations by Vietnamese authorities of shooting four fishermen in the South China Sea or North Natuna Sea. The Navy asserted that it was only a warning shot into the air and no one.

This was conveyed by the Commander of the West Armada Fleet Command (Pangarmabar) Rear Admiral Aan Kurnia in the information given by Kadispenal First Admiral Gig Jonias Mozes Sipasulta, Monday (7/24/2017). On Sunday (23/7) at 19:45 pm, KRI Wiratno-379 detected the presence of 2 KIA Vietnam at 4 Nm (nautical mile) position which entered the waters of the Indonesian contents land.

"Chronology of the expulsion of the two KIA Vietnam, started when KRI Wiratno-379 conducted patrols in the waters of North Natuna, ZEEI, within the Indonesian continental shelf detected the presence of 2 KIA Vietnam at 4 Nm position into the territorial waters of the continental shelf of Indonesia," said Aan .

However, all of a sudden the two KIA Vietnam are about to carry out embezzlement and the matter leads to Wiratno-379 KRI bow at a distance of 30 meters. Because it is considered dangerous, the Navy releases 1 bullet into the air.

"Silhouettes are still visible and the point leads to the KRI Wiratno-379 dirt at a distance of 30 meters which endanger KRI Wiratno-379 so given a warning shot of a bullet into the air using SS 1 type weapons," said Aan.

Shortly thereafter, the two KIAs of Vietnam changed the hammer and the Navy expelled them to leave the continental shelf of Indonesia. Meanwhile, Gig said it was not true about Vietnam's claims regarding 4 of their fishermen who were injured by being shot.

"It is not true that the statement of the Vietnam Navy always performs actions according to the provisions and measurable," said Gig.

As reported earlier, Vietnam said the fishermen are located about 132 nautical miles southeast of Con Dao Island. Vietnamese authorities claimed the fishermen who were shot were taken to Con Dao Island to undergo treatment.
(Dkp / ibh)
https://news.detik.com/berita/d-357...ntah-klaim-vietnam-tembak-4-nelayan-di-natuna





KRI 379




SS1 assault rifle Pindad


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## Aqsuperman

Well things around this corner of the sea has not always been the most peaceful of all, better sit tight and wait for a clearer picture then. 

Considering that the arms embargo is no longer in effect, its high time for the VPAF to bring these guys back into active service: The UH-1s. Light, mobile and good range. While not that robust to act as a gunship anymore, its can be an effective transport or med evac platform. In an emergency, UH-1 can even bring its formidable firepower to bear if the situation require.

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## Carlosa

Svantana said:


> Tuesday July 25, 2017, 07:00 pm
> *Explanation of the Navy About Vietnamese Fishermen in North Natuna Sea Incident*
> Andhika Prasetia - detikNews
> 
> Jakarta - The Indonesian Navy denies accusations by Vietnamese authorities of shooting four fishermen in the South China Sea or North Natuna Sea. The Navy asserted that it was only a warning shot into the air and no one.
> 
> This was conveyed by the Commander of the West Armada Fleet Command (Pangarmabar) Rear Admiral Aan Kurnia in the information given by Kadispenal First Admiral Gig Jonias Mozes Sipasulta, Monday (7/24/2017). On Sunday (23/7) at 19:45 pm, KRI Wiratno-379 detected the presence of 2 KIA Vietnam at 4 Nm (nautical mile) position which entered the waters of the Indonesian contents land.
> 
> "Chronology of the expulsion of the two KIA Vietnam, started when KRI Wiratno-379 conducted patrols in the waters of North Natuna, ZEEI, within the Indonesian continental shelf detected the presence of 2 KIA Vietnam at 4 Nm position into the territorial waters of the continental shelf of Indonesia," said Aan .
> 
> However, all of a sudden the two KIA Vietnam are about to carry out embezzlement and the matter leads to Wiratno-379 KRI bow at a distance of 30 meters. Because it is considered dangerous, the Navy releases 1 bullet into the air.
> 
> "Silhouettes are still visible and the point leads to the KRI Wiratno-379 dirt at a distance of 30 meters which endanger KRI Wiratno-379 so given a warning shot of a bullet into the air using SS 1 type weapons," said Aan.
> 
> Shortly thereafter, the two KIAs of Vietnam changed the hammer and the Navy expelled them to leave the continental shelf of Indonesia. Meanwhile, Gig said it was not true about Vietnam's claims regarding 4 of their fishermen who were injured by being shot.
> 
> "It is not true that the statement of the Vietnam Navy always performs actions according to the provisions and measurable," said Gig.
> 
> As reported earlier, Vietnam said the fishermen are located about 132 nautical miles southeast of Con Dao Island. Vietnamese authorities claimed the fishermen who were shot were taken to Con Dao Island to undergo treatment.
> (Dkp / ibh)
> https://news.detik.com/berita/d-357...ntah-klaim-vietnam-tembak-4-nelayan-di-natuna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KRI 379
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SS1 assault rifle Pindad



Well, the warning shots to the air statement is not very credible, shots to the air don't wound people. Vietnam has no reason to lie and create a conflict with Indonesia, actually, that would be the last thing that VN wants. This is obviously an intent to cover up.


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Well, the warning shots to the air statement is not very credible, shots to the air don't wound people. Vietnam has no reason to lie and create a conflict with Indonesia, actually, that would be the last thing that VN wants. This is obviously an intent to cover up.


Yes, I also agree Indonesia want to hide the incident and deny for that. Frankly, If they admit I will give them more respect than  Dont forget they can shot Chinese ship, so Vietnam is not a matter, Dont need to deny

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam is a Promising Partner for the Trump Administration*
East-West Center, Contributor Promoting better understanding and relations between the nations and peoples of the U.S., Asia and the Pacific. 
*By Huong Le Thu*, Visiting Fellow at Strategic and Defence Studies Center, Coral Bell School of Asia Pacific Affairs, Australian National University (ANU)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...mp-administration_us_597612afe4b0545a5c3101eb

_Note_: _this analysis originally appeared in the East-West Center’s _Asia Pacific Bulletin_policy brief series on July 11, 2017. The views expressed in this publication are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the policy or position of the East-West Center or any organization with which the author is affiliated. _

Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc was the first Southeast Asian head of state — and the third from Asia (after Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Chinese President Xi Jinping) — to meet with President Donald Trump since he took office. During his late May three-day visit, he also visited New York to commemorate the 40th anniversary of Vietnamese membership in the United Nations before traveling to the White House. Phuc’s mission was to forge a personal relationship with President Trump, who has yet to form any consolidated view on policy towards Southeast Asia, including the South China Sea.

President Trump, during the May 31 meeting with Prime Minister Phuc, said that he is glad to see a more “balanced” trade relationship with Vietnam. This new trend of seeking what Trump considers to be more fair trade relationships might be challenging for any Southeast Asian state with smaller size and capacity. However, Vietnam aims to demonstrate goodwill by meeting the White House halfway on such expectations.

Almost exactly a year ago, the bilateral relationship reached a new high, with then-President Obama’s visit to Vietnam where he announced the total annulment of the arms embargo that had been in place since the war. In fact, Vietnam’s relations with the United States had been warming significantly over the past few years, coinciding with China’s increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea and with the Obama administration’s rebalance policy.

Trump’s victory in the presidential election last November generated some unease in Hanoi that the promising momentum could be lost. Just like other Southeast Asian states, Vietnam rarely figured in Trump’s campaign speeches if at all. He put Vietnam in the same category as China – unfair traders that were dumping their cheap products into the American market. Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) posed an existential challenge to the whole project and was a hard hit for Vietnam. Vietnam — the least developed economy of the 12 TPP members — was widely predicted to benefit the most from the trade agreement. More importantly, TPP served as a tool for Vietnamese policy makers hoping to “escape China’s orbit” by reducing economic dependency on Chinese trade. The Trump administration’s declaration that the rebalance is dead only further exacerbated Vietnam’s strategic anxiety.

But Vietnam is no stranger to such difficult circumstances. The visit can be seen as Vietnam’s proactivity in seeking engagement with the United States. With a mission to seek US continuity in its commitment to regional affairs – especially regional maritime disputes – Phuc aimed to lay out benefits for Washington to induce it to keep ties with Hanoi strong. The prime minister tailored his economic agenda for Trump’s business mindset. Phuc – who is viewed domestically as a hands-on economic reformer – was a better fit for the role than conservative party Secretary General Trong or President Quang, who is a former Minister of Public Security. 

Despite Hanoi’s strategic concerns, bilateral economic relations have been doing well. America remains Vietnam’s largest export market; however, it ranks sixth among trade partners with which the United States has the largest trade deficits. Bilateral trade from January through May 2017 amounted to $16 billion, which constitutes an increase of 9.9% over the previous year. US exports grew by 22% compared to last year. The visit aimed at alleviating some of the Trump administration’s concerns about the growing deficit with Vietnam, which totaled $32 billion last year, a fraction of the deficit with China – $347 billion. Among the deals Phuc signed was a $15-17 billion agreement on the exchange of technological goods and services. President Trump described this win-win outcome as “more jobs for America, more equipment for Vietnam.” In contrast to the US-Vietnam leaders’ exchange one year ago, this meeting avoided values-based talk and was highly transactional in nature. Leaders in Hanoi have taken note of this shift. With such transactional gestures to generate good will, Vietnam hopes not only to boost bilateral relations, but also to draw Trump’s attention to geoeconomic and geostrategic regional developments.

During the Obama administration, Vietnam — along with other Southeast Asian neighbors — was considered a major beneficiary of American engagement in the region, both strategically and economically. The TPP was seen as a “carrot.” Under this administration, countries like Vietnam may need to come up with their own “carrots” to attract Washington’s attention, or at least ameliorate the perception of relative loss.

*A New Model for Great Power-Small Power Relations?*

Vietnam remains Southeast Asia’s most vigilant actor thus far during the first months of the Trump administration. Despite the apparent challenges – particularly the White House’s low level of engagement in the region – Hanoi can look to a number of advantageous factors. First of all, Southeast Asia’s US treaty allies — Thailand and the Philippines — are growing increasingly distant from Washington and closer to Beijing. Manila’s shift under Duterte is consequential, particularly for Vietnam, because of its role in the South China Sea disputes. The recent 30th ASEAN Summitshowed Manila’s reluctance to even raise the maritime issues publicly. Under these changing regional circumstances, Washington should reconsider modes of strategic cooperation beyond the traditional treaty ally framework. While Singapore also remains a US-reliant regional partner, Hanoi will be more hard-pressed to get the relationship right. This means that Vietnam might be the keenest regional actor to invest in this relationship and become Trump’s “America First” connection in Southeast Asia.

Moreover, while the issue of human rights represented an enduring obstacle for the Obama administration, Trump’s less values-based approach means that the government in Hanoi is likely to be more comfortable with Washington’s new foreign policy direction.

For America this could be a golden opportunity to engage with Hanoi. Despite previous efforts, domestic responses to American defense engagement in Vietnam still encounter a level of resistance. At this juncture, however, there seems to be consensus among Hanoi’s domestic leadership that the region cannot afford America’s absence. Thus, Phuc’s trip — as well as his reciprocal invitation for Trump to visit Vietnam — signals more openness than ever before, and certainly a better negotiating position.

The Trump administration needs to realize that the previous lasting investments in this relationship should not be sacrificed for short-term business gains. In fact, it is the Trump administration that is likely to harvest the fruits that previous administrations carefully seeded. Vietnam is now a key actor in the region, and if the United States wants to retain its position in Asia, it should understand that long-term gains from this relationship are worth more than revenues. If Trump’s “Make America Great Again” slogan has a global meaning, then securing the support of partners should come first. And a promising partner is Vietnam.


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## Svantana

It is better to wait for the results of the investigation between the two countries,

the main thing is to resolve the dispute with the efforts of peace and diplomacy ...

As a friendly country, Indonesia and Vietnam have experienced settling disputes between two nations in such manner, for example as the case of disputes between Indonesian marine and fisheries resources surveillance (PSDKP), With a ship of Vietnam coast guard a few months ago.






Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance ship KN490 and Indonesian fisheries patrol ship ORCA 04 6004.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/05/30/detained-fisheries-official-released-by-vietnam.html



xiao qi said:


> Yes, I also agree Indonesia want to hide the incident and deny for that. Frankly, If they admit I will give them more respect than  Dont forget they can shot Chinese ship, so Vietnam is not a matter, Dont need to deny



Yes, we did in 2016...
"The Indonesian warship KRI Imam Bonjol 383 fired several warning shots, the Navy said, adding that the Chinese fishing vessels ignored them."




kri imam bonjol 383, sistership of kri wiratno 379.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/209...e-fishing-boat-beijing-says-1-person-injured/

The Indonesian navy does not discriminate against the perpetrators of our nation's sovereignty violations ... The main task of the Indonesian national army including the navy is to uphold the sovereignty of the state, to maintain the territorial integrity of the Unitary State of the Republic of Indonesia based on Pancasila and the 1945 Constitution of the Republic of Indonesia Protecting the whole nation and the entire country of Indonesia from the threat and disruption to the integrity of the nation and state.

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## Carlosa

First chinese official statement about the conflict at the Repsol oil site in Vietnam's Vanguard Bank area:


*China urges halt to oil drilling in disputed South China Sea*



ReutersJuly 25, 2017




FILE PHOTO: A Repsol logo at a petrol station in Bormujos near the Andalusian capital of Seville, southern Spain March 3, 2016. REUTERS/Marcelo del Pozo/File Photo
BEIJING (Reuters) - China's Foreign Ministry has urged a halt to oil drilling in a disputed part of the South China Sea, where Spanish oil company Repsol had been operating in cooperation with Vietnam.

Drilling began in mid-June in Vietnam's Block 136/3, which is licensed to Vietnam's state oil firm, Spain's Repsol and Mubadala Development Co of the United Arab Emirates.

The block lies inside the U-shaped 'nine-dash line' that marks the vast area that China claims in the sea and overlaps what it says are its own oil concessions.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said China had indisputable sovereignty over the Spratly Islands, which China calls the Nansha islands, and jurisdiction over the relevant waters and seabed.

"China urges the relevant party to cease the relevant unilateral infringing activities and with practical actions safeguard the hard-earned positive situation in the South China Sea," Lu said at a regular briefing, when asked if China had pressured Vietnam or the Spanish company to stop drilling.

He did not elaborate.

This week the BBC reported that Vietnam had halted drilling there after Chinese threats, but there was no independent confirmation and neither Vietnamese officials nor Repsol made any comment on the report.

Thomson Reuters data showed the drilling ship Deepsea Metro I was in the same position on Monday as it had been since drilling began on the block in the middle of June.

An Indonesian naval ship that passed there on Saturday reported that three coastguard vessels and two Vietnamese fishing boats were nearby and there was no sign of trouble.

The Norwegian drilling ship operator, Odfjell Drilling Ltd., did not respond to an emailed request for comment.

China claims most of the energy-rich South China Sea through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

China's naval build-up and its increasingly assertive stance over disputed territory in the South China Sea have unnerved its neighbors.

The United States has criticized China's construction of islands and military facilities there, concerned they could be used to restrict free movement and extend Beijing's strategic reach.

(Reporting by Michael Martina in Beijing and Matthew Tostevin in Bangkok; Editing by Clarence Fernandez)

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## gambit

Carlosa said:


> Obviously you are the expert on this, but I wonder, if the aircraft is tasked with the extra burden of locating and attacking ground targets in a contested environment, would that be taxing the pilot quite a bit, or can be handled quite ok? The Indians are very happy with the 2 seater and they also want to change their upcoming PAK-FA fighter from the 1 seater Russian configuration to a 2 seater. Just wondering.


Tier One air forces, such as the US, pretty much expect their line fighter pilots to be proficient at both air-air and air-ground tactics.

The US Navy subordinate the 'Top Gun' program, which focuses on air-air, under the umbrella program Naval Strike and Air Warfare Center ( NSAWC ), pronounce n-sock, where pilots are expected to graduate with both air-air and air-ground ratings.

The USAF changed its Fighter Weapons School to simply Weapons School where fighter pilots are expected to be able to switch between air-air and air-ground at a moment's notice.

So let us take the US Navy F-18 platform for example...

An F-18 Super Hornet pilot is expected to be able to fight his way to the target area, deliver ground strike ordnance, and fight his way back out, if necessary. He is expected to be able to elude SAM and fend off opposition air.

But then why does the EF-18 Growler have to operators ?

Because electronics warfare ( EW ) is too different in associated tasks compares to the similarities between air-air and air-ground. 

The weapons in this case are EM energy and are too different in characteristics and behaviors. An EW fighter maybe expected to support multiple friendlies and fight multiple enemies whereas an air-air engagement demands the pilot to totally focus on one enemy. An EW fighter, due to the nature of EM radiation behaviors, can negatively affect multiple targets, whereas the bomb can only negative affect one target. Such differences necessitates extra education and training and once an F-18 operator is certified as an EW combatant, he is a specialist the same way an Army sniper is such a specialist.

So now we come to the buzz words of 'task saturation'...

Task saturation is individual specific, meaning one person cannot perform expected multiple tasks efficiently. The keyword here 'efficiently'. You can train an F-18 operator to be a pilot and an EW specialist, but he will not be able to perform those tasks efficiently, especially under combat stress.

Task saturation can exist when the platform cannot do as much as you like, which leads back to the previous paragraph. Since the aircraft cannot do some things, you have to do it yourself. In a prop job Cessna 152, a simple aircraft, the pilot have to move the rudder to make a coordinated turn, but my F-16 can move the rudder for me. That is one less task for flying I have to do.

So if you are able to design the platform to automatically change the radar's operations from air-air mode to air-ground mode by way of a switch, you just removed a lot of tasks from yourself. The aircraft is your co-pilot.

The F-15's basic platform was too limited so in order to make the fighter air-ground capable, a second operator had to be introduced, else the USAF might as well plan for a new jet. So the F-15E Strike Eagle two-seater variant was created.

For the F-16, the B/D two-seater models are trainers, not combatants, even though they can be if necessary.

Tier One air forces expects its pilots, assigned to a multi-role platform, to be able to change from air-air to air-ground tactics as needed.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> Tier One air forces, such as the US, pretty much expect their line fighter pilots to be proficient at both air-air and air-ground tactics.
> 
> The US Navy subordinate the 'Top Gun' program, which focuses on air-air, under the umbrella program Naval Strike and Air Warfare Center ( NSAWC ), pronounce n-sock, where pilots are expected to graduate with both air-air and air-ground ratings.
> 
> The USAF changed its Fighter Weapons School to simply Weapons School where fighter pilots are expected to be able to switch between air-air and air-ground at a moment's notice.
> 
> So let us take the US Navy F-18 platform for example...
> 
> An F-18 Super Hornet pilot is expected to be able to fight his way to the target area, deliver ground strike ordnance, and fight his way back out, if necessary. He is expected to be able to elude SAM and fend off opposition air.
> 
> But then why does the EF-18 Growler have to operators ?
> 
> Because electronics warfare ( EW ) is too different in associated tasks compares to the similarities between air-air and air-ground.
> 
> The weapons in this case are EM energy and are too different in characteristics and behaviors. An EW fighter maybe expected to support multiple friendlies and fight multiple enemies whereas an air-air engagement demands the pilot to totally focus on one enemy. An EW fighter, due to the nature of EM radiation behaviors, can negatively affect multiple targets, whereas the bomb can only negative affect one target. Such differences necessitates extra education and training and once an F-18 operator is certified as an EW combatant, he is a specialist the same way an Army sniper is such a specialist.
> 
> So now we come to the buzz words of 'task saturation'...
> 
> Task saturation is individual specific, meaning one person cannot perform expected multiple tasks efficiently. The keyword here 'efficiently'. You can train an F-18 operator to be a pilot and an EW specialist, but he will not be able to perform those tasks efficiently, especially under combat stress.
> 
> Task saturation can exist when the platform cannot do as much as you like, which leads back to the previous paragraph. Since the aircraft cannot do some things, you have to do it yourself. In a prop job Cessna 152, a simple aircraft, the pilot have to move the rudder to make a coordinated turn, but my F-16 can move the rudder for me. That is one less task for flying I have to do.
> 
> So if you are able to design the platform to automatically change the radar's operations from air-air mode to air-ground mode by way of a switch, you just removed a lot of tasks from yourself. The aircraft is your co-pilot.
> 
> The F-15's basic platform was too limited so in order to make the fighter air-ground capable, a second operator had to be introduced, else the USAF might as well plan for a new jet. So the F-15E Strike Eagle two-seater variant was created.
> 
> For the F-16, the B/D two-seater models are trainers, not combatants, even though they can be if necessary.
> 
> Tier One air forces expects its pilots, assigned to a multi-role platform, to be able to change from air-air to air-ground tactics as needed.



Thank you man, great info as usual coming from you.
Well, the SU-35 is a great aircraft, it should be a good addition to the Vietnamese air force, can't wait to get the good news of an order. The only negative about it is that the chinese also have it. Oh well.

Care to comment about the recent news and actions from the northern comrades? What do you think is VN's best course of action against such a dramatic escalation and display of arrogance and bullying?


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## Carlosa

*Background Briefing: South China Sea: Is China Reasserting its 9 Dotted Line Claim? Carlyle A. Thayer July 15, 2017 *

Question 1: We have heard Vietnam and Repsol have suspended drilling oil in block 136-03 under pressure from China. These reports have yet to be confirmed. What is your assessment of this issue? 

ANSWER: My sources told me a week ago that General Fan Changlong raised Repsol’s drilling activities in Block 136 when he visited Spain before coming to Vietnam. So there are three possibilities. First, Repsol took note of the warning and suspended exploration. Second, Vietnam is being cautious and asked Repsol to stop activities for the moment. Third, the report has not yet been verified. 

Question2. Has Hanoi miscalculated in restarting oil activities in the South China Sea? Why did it do so and why has in stepped back? 

ANSWER: It appears that Hanoi was cautious about oil exploration in the period from the HYSY 981 crisis in 2014 to early this year. Vietnam then went ahead with ExxonMobil and removed its restrictions on Repsol’s activities. The former was given much publicity while the latter was kept quiet. China nonetheless detected this activity and made its displeasure known during General Fan’s visit. This is a test of Vietnam’s policy of cooperation and struggle 

If Vietnam forgoes oil exploration it will sets back its energy program. If Vietnam takes this course it is because of the fear of Chinese retribution and because it cannot yet count on the Trump Administration to provide support. 

Question 3. Will China put pressure on Vietnam to stop drilling in any area within its 9 dotted line map? 

ANSWER: There is a larger contect: this year President Duterte said China would act aggressively (go to war) if the Philippines restarted oil exploration in Recto Bank. Then China abruptly cancelled the 4th friendly border defense exchange activities when Vietnam’s leaders rebuffed General Fan’s request that Vietnam stop oil exploration. Finally, China protested when Vietnam extended ONGC’s lease in Block 128. If these dots are connected it appears that China is reasserting its nine-dotted map claim on the first anniversary of the Arbitral Tribunal’s Award. 

Question 4. Is this a victory for China in dealing with Vietnam? 

ANSWER: It is too early to make a definitive assessment. Information is speculative. If Vietnam does back down it will be a marked change from its struggle against China during the HD 981 crisis. And Vietnam’s leaders will quickly come to learn that giving in to China on one point will lead China to press on another. Vietnam will need to lobby fellow ASEAN members for support. 

Question 5. How will the U.S., Japan and other countries view this move by Hanoi? How will it influence to other partners like ExxonMobil? Is Hanoi failing to protect the interests of these commercial partners? 

ANSWER: When Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc met President Donald Trump at The White House on 31 May, they issued a joint statement that included a long paragraph on the South China Sea. This joint statement did not explicitly address the issue of Repsol oil exploration. The Joint Statement said, inter alia: 

The two leaders underscored the importance of freedom of navigation and overflight and other lawful uses of the seas, and noted with concern the destabilizing impacts that unlawful restrictions to the freedom of the seas have on peace and prosperity in the Asia–Pacific region. The two sides also affirmed full support for the peaceful resolution of disputes without the threat or use of force or coercion, in accordance with international law, including full respect for diplomatic and legal processes, and called upon all parties concerned to implement their international legal obligations in good faith in any resolution to these disputes. They highlighted the importance that parties refrain from actions that would escalate tensions, such as the militarization of disputed features. President Trump stressed that the United States will continue to fly, sail, and operate anywhere international law allows. 

Vietnam would need to make public that China was interfering in oil exploration in Block 136 in order to lay the ground work for diplomatic support from the U.S. and Japan. Obviously, ExxonMobil would be following this reported incident carefully in order to assess risks to its activities in the Blue Whale project. This is Vietnam’s largest natural gas deal. Prime Minister Phuc has already approved the construction of gas power plants on shore. If China put pressure on ExxonMobil the United States likely would have greater reason to become involved than the Repsol case. Vietnam usually offers some guarantee of support for oil companies operating in its Exclusive Economic Zone. At the moment, if the speculative reports are correct, China is only applying political and diplomatic pressure on either or both Repsol and Vietnam. China is more likely to take some punitive economic action before resorting to any confrontation at sea. China will likely use its fishing fleet, fishing militia and Coast Guard ships before it has to rely on the People’s Liberation Army Navy. It would be prudent to suspend any judgment about whether or not Vietnam is protecting its commercial partners until more information comes to hand. In other words, wait and see. Suggested citation: Carlyle A. Thayer, “South China Sea: Is China Reasserting its 9 Dotted Line Claim?” 

Thayer Consultancy Background Brief 
, July 15, 2017. All background briefs are posted on Scribd.com (search for Thayer). To remove yourself from the mailing list type, UNSUBSCRIBE in the Subject heading and hit the Reply key. Thayer Consultancy provides political analysis of current regional security issues and other research support to selected clients. Thayer Consultancy was officially registered as a small business in Australia in 2002

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## Viet

*Rosatom expects Vietnam to revive construction plans for nuclear power plant*

ASTANA, July 25. /TASS/. Russia’s state-run nuclear corporation Rosatom continues cooperation with Vietnam in the nuclear power sector, despite the fact that the project on construction of a nuclear power plant in the country has been suspended, Alexander Merten, President of Rusatom International Network (RIN), said in an interview with TASS.

"At this stage we are cooperating in the area of establishing a *Center for nuclear science and technologies* in Vietnam in accordance with a cooperation agreement signed in 2011. The memorandum of understanding on the implementation plan for the project was signed two weeks ago - on June 29 in Moscow," Merten said. "Also, we have participated in setting up an information center in the nuclear power sector, which aims at raising awareness in the area of nuclear energy and nuclear technologies, which we hope will become a background for Vietnam's returning to the (understanding) of the necessity to construct a nuclear power station," he added.

In late 2016, Vietnam abandoned the idea of implementing the nuclear energy development plan due to its high cost and the recent decline in prices for traditional energy resources. In particular, the country made a decision to suspend two nuclear power plant projects which involved Russia and Japan.

At the time, Russia’s Rosatom State Atomic Energy Corporation said that it understood Vietnam’s position and expressed readiness to provide every possible assistance to the country when it was ready to restart the implementation of the national nuclear program.


More:
http://tass.com/economy/957662


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## Viet

Russia national security council's General Nikolai Patrushev in Hanoi






Meeting Julie Bishop, Australian Minister of Foreign Affairs in Sydney


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## gambit

Carlosa said:


> Care to comment about the recent news and actions from the northern comrades? What do you think is VN's best course of action against such a dramatic escalation and display of arrogance and bullying?


For starter, anyone who believes in the line "China's peaceful rise" is an idiot, and I say that kindly. Diplomats would use a different word but the intention to designate such a believer would be the same.

Am *NOT* saying China does not have the right to improve her lot. As a capitalist, I say 'Show Me The Money'. So to China, by all means, rise all you want.

But there are two major factors hard at work in the Chinese leadership's thinking.

One -- It is about security for the Chinese people as they lift themselves and their country out of that horrible experiment with communism.

Two -- That 'century of humiliation' is a constant emotional weight upon that leadership.

For item one, nothing wrong with that. But for item two, according to the Chinese leadership, since it is not possible to erase what happened, the only possible thing to do is to create a counterweight. Humiliation is a traumatic emotional event. To recover requires the typical 'eye for an eye' response. By that, I do not mean that China must seek vengeance against those who humiliated her, ie the Europeans. But what I mean is that the appropriate response for being poor is to be wealthy, for ignorance it is education, for weakness it is strength, for loneliness it is companionship, and so on. Since China was once a victim, the matching response is to make someone a victim of China's strength and power. That is the emotional counterweight China want to create.

For China, a peaceful rise is possible only if others do not resist what China want to take from them or deny them access to. It was a shrew rhetorical move to use precisely those words as they create an initial condition in the receiver's mind. Those words were not meant for those who have a history with China, such as our Viet Nam, for example, and that history have not been so peaceful. Rather, those words were meant for observers who have no such history and willing, in their own minds, to create a blank slate for China. China lose nothing if those words do not work for everyone, but for the few that worked, the gains will be enormous in terms of long term diplomatic and economic benefits.

China's bullying of her immediate neighbors is an inevitability as believed by observers, and the demand to recognize China's claim to the entirety of the South China Sea confirmed that inevitability. Obviously, China cannot do to Viet Nam what the Europeans did to her, but China must do something -- anything -- to start creating that emotional counterweight. That land grab of the sea surface was the perfect tactic that put all her immediate neighbors on notice of their vulnerabilities and possibly weakness to resist.

Viet Nam must resist China's claim to the entirety of the South China Sea. Resist in every avenue, from military to diplomacy to rhetoric. Viet Nam *WILL* be the first target of China's intention to humiliate someone -- anyone. Lose this fight and it will be worse for Viet Nam than how it was for the country when it was partitioned during the Vietnam War.

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## xiao qi

The most country Chinese wants to humiliate, I dont doubt It is not Vietnam, India, US.. It is Japan. Chinese films and magazines spend so much resources to against Japanese. Dont doubt, Chinese hate Japanese than any countries in the world. Maybe the SCS will become a battefield between China and Vietnam and other countries . It is worse situation but It dont think It will become a comprehensive war, Vietnamese and Chinese will get nothing from this land war, Chinese also get the lesson from Vietnam- Sino War. The affection to Vietnamese economy is enough to damage. But If China think They can control Vietnam like Philipine, Malay, Thailand..etc It is big mistake for them. Vietnam is not easy to control and have ambition than any countries in South East Asia. Even I suppose India is not tougher than Vietnam although they are bigger than Vietnam many times. Chinese are waiting. They need time

*Can the US get a foot in Vietnam’s door?*







The China-Vietnam relationship might be less complicated than Washington would wish, despite Beijing’s recent threat to use force against Hanoi to stop drilling in the South China Sea.

Interestingly, there was nothing in the 31 May joint statement issued by President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc that would commit the US to assisting Hanoi in its current dealings with Chinese threats.

Those in Washington who see Vietnam as a potential ally against China have quite possibly ignored the powerful and corrupting influence of cross-border trade between China and Vietnam.

While attending IMDEX in Singapore in May, a senior US defence industry source told _Shephard_ that a recent meeting in Hanoi ended abruptly after Ministry of Defence officials informed the US delegation that an arms sale would require ‘25% off the top’. A secondary source in Singapore also said that Vietnam government officials were laundering money in Singapore via their wives.

The US is forbidden from conducting business in this manner due to the 1977 Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which makes bribery a federal crime. This might explain why Vietnam will continue to rely on Russian weapons and thus nix any true military-to-military cooperation between the US and Vietnam.

It has been recently confirmed that Vietnam will purchase 64 T-90S/SK tanks from Russia, and that Russia is offering Vietnam the S-400 air defence system and MiG-35 fighters to replace Vietnam’s retired fleet of MiG 21s. If Vietnam opts for the MiG 35s this will end all hope of Vietnam following Indonesia in purchasing F-16A/Bs from the US, said Carlyle Thayer, emeritus professor at the University of New South Wales at the Australian Defence Force Academy.

There are other problems facing joint US-Vietnam military cooperation. One is Vietnam’s ‘Three-No’s’ defence policy: no military alliances, no foreign military bases on Vietnamese territory, and no reliance on any country to combat others, Thayer said.

He added this ‘coupled with deep suspicion of the United States on the part of both retired and active-duty senior military officers mitigates against any marked stepped up in defence relations’.

If we have learned anything about Vietnam in the past half century, it is that no one pushes Hanoi anywhere it does not want to go, said‎ Ralph Cossa, president of the Pacific Forum CSIS in Honolulu.

‘There is no love lost between Hanoi and Beijing, but the Vietnamese will be careful not to openly take sides with anyone. That said, there has been and remains an excellent opportunity for Washington and Hanoi to deepen their partnership, and China provides added incentive for both to do so,’ Cossa noted.

The US and Vietnam signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) in 2011 that set out five priority areas of cooperation: maritime security, search and rescue, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, exchanges between defence universities and research institutes, and UN peacekeeping operations.

However, the 2011 MoU has been disappointing for the US, Thayer said. For example, Vietnam turned down an invitation by then Secretary of Defense Ash Carter for Vietnamese military officers to fly on and observe P8 Poseidon maritime patrols over the South China Sea.

There is incrementally closer alignment but no alliance in the offing, said Patrick Cronin, a senior advisor and senior director of the Asia-Pacific Security Program at the Centre for a New American Security. ‘Vietnam preserves a balance of interests and the United States is keener to bolster Vietnam’s self-defence than provide a security guarantee. That said, it may depend on just how assertive China becomes should it succumb to a maritime Middle Kingdom mentality.’

However, there has been activity on coast guard matters. In May, Vietnam’s Coast Guard took delivery of six new Metal Shark 45-foot Defiant patrol boats and, in April,handed over a decommissioned US Coast Guard Hamilton-class cutter.

For now, Hanoi appears to be interested mainly in enhancing deterrent effects via modest defence cooperation with the United States, said Richard Fisher, senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center. ‘While Vietnam has diversified its arms sources in the last decade, it has been careful to avoid dependency on the protection of a foreign power.’

China’s 1979 invasion of Vietnam, no matter how poorly executed, demonstrated to Hanoi’s leadership that a foreign friend is not going to protect them when there is a risk of war with Beijing, Fisher said.

‘China is not pushing Vietnam into a new embrace with the Americans. More to the point, it is pushing Hanoi into acquiring nuclear weapons – which will scare Beijing far more than an alliance with Washington,’ Fisher warned.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-notes/can-us-get-foot-vietnams-door/

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## gambit

xiao qi said:


> The most country Chinese wants to humiliate, I dont doubt It is not Vietnam, India, US.. *It is Japan.*


That maybe so, but Viet Nam is the most immediate target.

Viet Nam is not as militarily capable as JPN or even SKR. Viet Nam has no alliance to rely upon, even if just in principle. Viet Nam is currently economically vulnerable as she struggles to reform. Viet Nam has the most to gain with a free SCS and the most to lose with the SCS under Chinese control. If Viet Nam is successfully bullied into submission, other Asian powers, including JPN, will eventually submit. In degrees of priority, Viet Nam is the highest. The spat with India is nothing compare to what China will gain, in strategic and economic terms, if Viet Nam lose.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> That maybe so, but Viet Nam is the most immediate target.
> 
> Viet Nam is not as militarily capable as JPN or even SKR. Viet Nam has no alliance to rely upon, even if just in principle. Viet Nam is currently economically vulnerable as she struggles to reform. Viet Nam has the most to gain with a free SCS and the most to lose with the SCS under Chinese control. If Viet Nam is successfully bullied into submission, other Asian powers, including JPN, will eventually submit. In degrees of priority, Viet Nam is the highest. The spat with India is nothing compare to what China will gain, in strategic and economic terms, if Viet Nam lose.



Absolutely. As much as it is totally true that Japan is the main target of humiliation, that's mainly for internal consumption in order to galvanize the emotions of chinese public opinion and direct their anger towards an external enemy and in turn, that portraits the chinese regime as the protector / defender and particularly the avenger of the chinese nation and people. Anybody that watch chinese television will see movies everyday about ww2 with Japan where brave chinese fight against the evil Japanese. Its emotional brainwashing.

Vietnam on the other hand, needs to be humiliated and put in its place (as the chinese would say), purely for tactical reasons. Its the case of "kill the chicken to scare the monkey". VN is the only one that dares to stand up to China and hold its ground which is something that has traditionally done, so its a symbol of resistance to China in SCS. That's why Vietnam is the main target right now. PH has been subdued, Malaysia is becoming their client state. Brunei is not really pressing any issues, they are financially in bed with the chinese anyway (same as the Malaysian leadership), so Only Vietnam remains in the way in order to consolidate their control of the scs (assuming that USA does not get involved.


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## Viet

gambit said:


> That maybe so, but Viet Nam is the most immediate target.
> 
> Viet Nam is not as militarily capable as JPN or even SKR. Viet Nam has no alliance to rely upon, even if just in principle. Viet Nam is currently economically vulnerable as she struggles to reform. Viet Nam has the most to gain with a free SCS and the most to lose with the SCS under Chinese control. If Viet Nam is successfully bullied into submission, other Asian powers, including JPN, will eventually submit. In degrees of priority, Viet Nam is the highest. The spat with India is nothing compare to what China will gain, in strategic and economic terms, if Viet Nam lose.


Of course the Chinese hate Japan due to what happened in the past and say openly want to kill to the last man and women in Japan but if history is a guide they won't. Why should they? To understand the Chinese,one should understand their psyche. Look how many Chinese tourists visit Japan today. How they treated Japanese war criminals in China after Japan surrender. All the Chinese want is to get recognition and love from the country of the rising sun. Too bad, the Japanese despise them.

How many times China attacks Japanese mainland and launches military onslaughts on Japanese hold islands? Yes it is zero. While the numbers the Chinese attacking Vietnam are too many to count. Even during the Ming, when the Chinese possessed the most powerful army in Far East, they could easily take on Japan but they didn't. They launched a full scale war on Vietnam instead. China is surrounded by how many countries? Someone can begin to question Chinese mental condition.

Vietnam/China military technologies during DaiViet/Ming period 

http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/wps/wps03_011.pdf

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> If Viet Nam is successfully bullied into submission, other Asian powers, i*ncluding JPN*, will eventually submit. .



I'm not so sure about that part, the Japanese are very, very nationalistic and have a deep dislike for chinese. I feel Japan can hold its position as long as they are not abandoned by USA. Time will say anyway.


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Absolutely. As much as it is totally true that Japan is the main target of humiliation, that's mainly for internal consumption in order to galvanize the emotions of chinese public opinion and direct their anger towards an external enemy and in turn, that portraits the chinese regime as the protector / defender and particularly the avenger of the chinese nation and people. Anybody that watch chinese television will see movies everyday about ww2 with Japan where brave chinese fight against the evil Japanese. Its emotional brainwashing.
> 
> Vietnam on the other hand, needs to be humiliated and put in its place (as the chinese would say), purely for tactical reasons. Its the case of "kill the chicken to scare the monkey". VN is the only one that dares to stand up to China and hold its ground which is something that has traditionally done, so its a symbol of resistance to China in SCS. That's why Vietnam is the main target right now. PH has been subdued, Malaysia is becoming their client state. Brunei is not really pressing any issues, they are financially in bed with the chinese anyway (same as the Malaysian leadership), so Only Vietnam remains in the way in order to consolidate their control of the scs (assuming that USA does not get involved.



In other case, Chinese films about WW2 is good to watch  My father now is watching a Chinese film that said how Chínese agaisnt and defeat Japanese in Shanghai. So funny, Sometimes it give the fake information to portrait how brave they are and how evil japanese were... It is not difficult to understand why the incident like Nanking incident is popular now. These films also help Chinese people to encourage them to do, to work more but It creates the invisible enemy makes Chinese thinks their enemy is Japanese no ones and they need to destroy them. My Chinese is good enough to read some Chinese stories where a big part of Chinese want to delete Japan out of the world map.



Carlosa said:


> I'm not so sure about that part, the Japanese are very, very nationalistic and have a deep dislike for chinese. I feel Japan can hold its position as long as they are not abandoned by USA. Time will say anyway.


Japanese lose the far distance to develop her defence industry after WW2, In my opinion, Japanese is difficult to catch up US or China in some fields. They are strong but Time is not waiting them.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Of course the Chinese hate Japan due to what happened in the past and say openly want to kill to the last man and women in Japan but if history is a guide they won't. Why should they? To understand the Chinese,one should understand their psyche. Look how many Chinese tourists visit Japan today. How they treated Japanese war criminals in China after Japan surrender. All the Chinese want is to get recognition and love from the country of the rising sun. Too bad, the Japanese despise them.
> 
> How many times China attacks Japanese mainland and launches military onslaughts on Japanese hold islands? Yes it is zero. While the numbers the Chinese attacking Vietnam are too many to count. Even during the Ming, when the Chinese possessed the most powerful army in Far East, they could easily take on Japan but they didn't. They launched a full scale war on Vietnam instead. China is surrounded by how many countries? Someone can begin to question Chinese mental condition.
> 
> Vietnam/China military technologies during DaiViet/Ming period
> 
> http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/wps/wps03_011.pdf



But I will tell you something, Japan is one the favorite countries that chinese tourists travel to and when they go there, they see a different type of country and different type of people than what the chinese regime tells them.

Just 2 months ago when in China, I was talking to a girl that is a close friend of mine, she had just come back from a 1 week free trip to Japan that her company gave to their best marketing people as a reward. She was shocked about the differences between Japan and China, she kept saying: people are very nice and polite, they go out of their way to help us, everything is safe, don't have to worry about toxic / fake foods, don't have to check anything, you can trust things, everything is so clean, I wish China would be like Japan.

Propaganda and brainwashing only go so far, eventually the pendulum turns and when that happens, the chinese regime will be in trouble and they know it which is a reason why they push so hard right now.



xiao qi said:


> In other case, Chinese films about WW2 is good to watch  My father now is watching a Chinese film that said how Chínese agaisnt and defeat Japanese in Shanghai. So funny, Sometimes it give the fake information to portrait how brave they are and how evil japanese were... It is not difficult to understand why the incident like Nanking incident is popular now. These films also help Chinese people to encourage them to do, to work more but It creates the invisible enemy makes Chinese thinks their enemy is Japanese no ones and they need to destroy them. My Chinese is good enough to read some Chinese stories where a big part of Chinese want to delete Japan out of the world map.
> 
> 
> Japanese lose the far distance to develop her defence industry after WW2, In my opinion, Japanese is difficult to catch with US or China in some fields. They are strong but Time is not waiting them.



The chinese regime has no problem whatsoever about lying and rewriting history, they are ruthless people willing to do whatever it takes to stay in power.

Don't be so sure about Japan, they are starting to wake up and they are developing offensive, stand off weapons (portrayed against North Korea, but its actually against China). The key is US support. Sure, they will not be a China or a US, but they can defend themselves.

You can read chinese? Wow, smart girl.


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> But I will tell you something, Japan is one the favorite countries that chinese tourists travel to and when they go there, they see a different type of country and different type of people that what the chinese regime tells them.
> 
> Just 2 months ago when in China, I was talking to a girl that is a close friend of mine, she had just come back from a 1 week free trip to Japan that her company gave to their best marketing people as a reward. She was shocked about the differences between Japan and China, she kept saying: people are very nice and polite, they go out of their way to help us, everything is safe, don't have to worry about toxic / fake foods, don't have to check anything, you can trust things, everything is so clean, I wish China would be like Japan.
> 
> Propaganda and brainwashing only go so far, eventually the pendulum turns and when that happens, the chinese regime will be in trouble and they know it which is a reason why they push so hard right now.



Yes, you are right, Even some Chinese in PDF already asked us Why we worship Japanese, they are evil.. But Likely Japanese is upper class in Asia. The hatred from WW2 is not easy to forget with Chinese.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Yes, you are right, Even some Chinese in PDF already asked us Why we worship Japanese, they are evil.. But Likely Japanese is upper class in Asia. The hatred from WW2 is not easy to forget with Chinese.



Step by step my friend, people come back from their travel and they talk to their family and all their friends, the word spreads fast. Its not just upper class anymore, there is a large middle class of easy 200 million in China and growing fast. They love to travel, usually to Thailand and Japan.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> For starter, anyone who believes in the line "China's peaceful rise" is an idiot, and I say that kindly. Diplomats would use a different word but the intention to designate such a believer would be the same.
> 
> Am *NOT* saying China does not have the right to improve her lot. As a capitalist, I say 'Show Me The Money'. So to China, by all means, rise all you want.
> 
> But there are two major factors hard at work in the Chinese leadership's thinking.
> 
> One -- It is about security for the Chinese people as they lift themselves and their country out of that horrible experiment with communism.
> 
> Two -- That 'century of humiliation' is a constant emotional weight upon that leadership.
> 
> For item one, nothing wrong with that. But for item two, according to the Chinese leadership, since it is not possible to erase what happened, the only possible thing to do is to create a counterweight. Humiliation is a traumatic emotional event. To recover requires the typical 'eye for an eye' response. By that, I do not mean that China must seek vengeance against those who humiliated her, ie the Europeans. But what I mean is that the appropriate response for being poor is to be wealthy, for ignorance it is education, for weakness it is strength, for loneliness it is companionship, and so on. Since China was once a victim, the matching response is to make someone a victim of China's strength and power. That is the emotional counterweight China want to create.
> 
> For China, a peaceful rise is possible only if others do not resist what China want to take from them or deny them access to. It was a shrew rhetorical move to use precisely those words as they create an initial condition in the receiver's mind. Those words were not meant for those who have a history with China, such as our Viet Nam, for example, and that history have not been so peaceful. Rather, those words were meant for observers who have no such history and willing, in their own minds, to create a blank slate for China. China lose nothing if those words do not work for everyone, but for the few that worked, the gains will be enormous in terms of long term diplomatic and economic benefits.
> 
> China's bullying of her immediate neighbors is an inevitability as believed by observers, and the demand to recognize China's claim to the entirety of the South China Sea confirmed that inevitability. Obviously, China cannot do to Viet Nam what the Europeans did to her, but China must do something -- anything -- to start creating that emotional counterweight. That land grab of the sea surface was the perfect tactic that put all her immediate neighbors on notice of their vulnerabilities and possibly weakness to resist.
> 
> Viet Nam must resist China's claim to the entirety of the South China Sea. Resist in every avenue, from military to diplomacy to rhetoric. Viet Nam *WILL* be the first target of China's intention to humiliate someone -- anyone. Lose this fight and it will be worse for Viet Nam than how it was for the country when it was partitioned during the Vietnam War.



Excellent analysis and very correct in all points.

Every analysis that *TRULY* understand how chinese people think, hits the right point by always mentioning the century of humiliation, the opium wars and the Japanese invasion. Those are the key points that shape the thinking and actions of the ruling class and the nationalists in China. 

That's why the chinese have utmost contempt for the rule of international law or by any agreement they sign as they just demonstrated when they said that they were not bound by the agreement with the British about Hong Kong and that it was just a historical document. They feel they are justified to do as they please and take as much as they can take. They hate the west (Russians included, they simple been left for later, the Russians know it very well). They will ruthlessly say and promise whatever they need to do in order to achieve their objectives as we can easily see.

At this point, I feel that there is a fork in the road for Vietnam since now the chinese had not hesitated to threaten and there is only one way out, back down and kowtow or resit and fight. 

The situation at Vanguard Bank was clear enough, Vietnam backed down and that can be ok in the short term, retreat, plan your options, talk to your friends and possible allies and decide what the final course of action will be and that's where the fork in the road will be. There is no middle road, backing down again means backing down every time and accept to be subservient to China and the chinese will keep locking VN further and further into their box. The chinese understand the Vietnamese leadership very well, they are very similar, they know how to blackmail them and how to bribe them. Once the process start, they will lock them in. Only the will of the Vietnamese people can prevent that and the regime knows that if they are seen as backing down and kowtowing to China, they lose their legitimacy to govern and that's what scare them the most. Retention of power is their number one priority.

So the stage is set, we'll see what the Vietnamese leadership decides to do, confronting China requires powerful friends and it will include massive economic pain. The Vietnamese regime allowed Vietnam to be much more economically dependent to China than what it needed to be and that gives China a powerful blackmail option. They use that option all the time with countries that don't follow their demands. Interesting times ahead.

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## gambit

Carlosa said:


> Vietnam on the other hand, needs to be humiliated and put in its place (as the chinese would say), *purely for tactical reasons.* Its the case of "kill the chicken to scare the monkey".


Correct.

It is one thing to say 'Do not f*ck with me.' It is another to back it up. You have a new kid in the playground. Total unknown. If he says 'Do not f*ck with me.' and looks like he can back up what he said, most will leave him alone. A few may test the boundaries but if the new kid resists, the testers will retreat.

But China is not that new kid. She has been around for a few thousand yrs. Her presence and power rose and waned as conditions compelled. Then all of a sudden, it was the new kids who bullied and subdued China. Then even worse, it was not of her own efforts that she was liberated but that of another bunch of new kids.

Today, it is not enough for China to say 'Do not f*ck with me.' She has to back up those words. Just as China was once unjustly a victim, there has to be a target for China's rage, unfairly or not.

Saddam Hussein wanted Kuwaiti oil. But even dictators needs justifications, no matter how specious, for their actions. So Saddam Hussein invented the justification that Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil underground. Then came the invasion. Same with Hitler and Germany. Other countries were constraining Germans and Germany. The Versailles Treaty was unjust. Germans in other countries were being oppressed. And so on.

China invented the 'fact' that the South China Sea 'rightfully' belongs to China. The material for this is so diaphanous that Victoria's Secret could use it for a new line of lingerie. Viet Nam's resistance serves dual purposes. To cast China as a victim and once again unjustly. And due to China's new prowess, Viet Nam will be the example of that 'Do not f*ck with me.' declaration. China may not want a war, but she *NEED* a defeated foe.

If Viet Nam is defeated, whether militarily or diplomatically, JPN and SKR will submit to China so some degrees. While they have the vast Pacific Ocean to ship their goods to the US, Asia is still their breadbasket and they need the SCS, not just to survive but also to grow.

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## Carlosa

gambit said:


> Correct.
> 
> It is one thing to say 'Do not f*ck with me.' It is another to back it up. You have a new kid in the playground. Total unknown. If he says 'Do not f*ck with me.' and looks like he can back up what he said, most will leave him alone. A few may test the boundaries but if the new kid resists, the testers will retreat.
> 
> But China is not that new kid. She has been around for a few thousand yrs. Her presence and power rose and waned as conditions compelled. Then all of a sudden, it was the new kids who bullied and subdued China. Then even worse, it was not of her own efforts that she was liberated but that of another bunch of new kids.
> 
> Today, it is not enough for China to say 'Do not f*ck with me.' She has to back up those words. Just as China was once unjustly a victim, there has to be a target for China's rage, unfairly or not.
> 
> Saddam Hussein wanted Kuwaiti oil. But even dictators needs justifications, no matter how specious, for their actions. So Saddam Hussein invented the justification that Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil underground. Then came the invasion. Same with Hitler and Germany. Other countries were constraining Germans and Germany. The Versailles Treaty was unjust. Germans in other countries were being oppressed. And so on.
> 
> China invented the 'fact' that the South China Sea 'rightfully' belongs to China. The material for this is so diaphanous that Victoria's Secret could use it for a new line of lingerie. Viet Nam's resistance serves dual purposes. To cast China as a victim and once again unjustly. And due to China's new prowess, Viet Nam will be the example of that 'Do not f*ck with me.' declaration. China may not want a war, but she *NEED* a defeated foe.
> 
> If Viet Nam is defeated, whether militarily or diplomatically, JPN and SKR will submit to China so some degrees. While they have the vast Pacific Ocean to ship their goods to the US, Asia is still their breadbasket and they need the SCS, not just to survive but also to grow.



That's right, we have a new situation now, the bully said: "stop the drilling or we attack your islands", that's the new chinese way of behaving in this region, they already feel that is almost theirs. Bad situation and there hasn't even been a comment or condemnation from USA, Trump is busy dealing with a lot of internal issues there and they'll have to deal with North Korea soon, so they don't need to open up new fronts right now and of course, the chinese understand that very well.

Bad situation all around.


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## Carlosa

*China's Window of Opportunity in the South China Sea*
Domestic and international stars have aligned to give China a chance to put forward a solution.

By Xue Li and Cheng Zhangxi
July 26, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/chinas-window-of-opportunity-in-the-south-china-sea/

The South China Sea (SCS) issue has now arrived at a critical point. China should take the advantages of this opportunity to adjust its South China Sea approach – to steer from a “unilateral win” formula to “multilateral win” formula, so as to take lead in the problem-solving process. This new approach should drive the South China Sea problem-solving process to a faster track, in the process clearing out major obstacles to building a Southeast Asian hub for the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road (MSR).

Based on different opinions regarding sovereignty over islands and reefs and maritime interests and rights, the claimant parties in the South China Sea can be divided into two groups: mainland China and Taiwan, and the four ASEAN claimants (Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei). The majority of the ASEAN non-claimants, along with some outsiders — led by European countries, the United States, Japan and Australia — tend to support the claims made by the ASEAN claimants, whereas a minority of the ASEAN non-claimants, Russia, South Korea, and some other outsiders stand neutral. Although there also are some disputes between the ASEAN claimants themselves, for the moment these disputes are considered “minor” in the face of their mutual confrontation with China.

At the moment, the South China Sea is in a relatively peaceful period, but over years of development, it has already been shaped into a trifold game between China and the United States; China and the ASEAN claimants; and China and the ASEAN as a whole. The game between China and the United States is the major conflict, but the game that sees the ASEAN claimants using ASEAN against China is increasingly tense. Because the South China Sea issue is already a flashpoint in China-ASEAN relations, it is considered an indicator for China’s overall foreign policy, as well a major tool to the United States’ Asia-Pacific rebalancing strategy. The South China Sea issue is also a key security question for ASEAN countries and seen as a touchstone for the ASEAN security cooperation. China, meanwhile, has called for downplaying the South China Sea issue whilst strengthening political, economic, and cultural cooperation with ASEAN countries, but the outcomes so far are barely visible.

The ASEAN countries believe that China has become increasingly assertive regarding the South China Sea issue over the past few years. Along with China’s rise, this puts them in an even more disadvantageous position. As a response, the ASEAN claimants propelled the internationalization of the South China Sea issue and became more reliant on the United States and other foreign countries to deal with their security concerns. Only when China and the ASEAN agree on a binding working framework for handling the disputes will the ASEAN claimants then begin economic and cultural cooperation with China, and maybe venture attempts to strengthen security cooperation as well.

It is highly unlikely to see the South China Sea issue resolved in the short term. However, the South China Sea issue may not necessarily get in the way of promoting cooperation between China and the ASEAN claimants. Of course, this outcome requires a relatively more relaxed external environment and a smoother internal environment. The external environment mainly concerns the degree of intervention made by outside countries (i.e. major powers). The internal environment on the other hand, mainly refers to the domestic political stance of the ASEAN claimants and the resulting political relationships between these countries. On both fronts, China currently has a unique window of opportunity to improve its relationships with ASEAN claimants.

*External Environment*

Considering that populism and the anti-globalization trend have made developed countries less concerned about issues abroad, there is currently a relatively relaxed external environment for resolving the South China Sea issue. For the purpose of this analysis, Japan, the European Union, India, and Russia form the major external powers, with the United States taking the lead.

The Asia-Pacific region is in no doubt one of the United States’ most concerned areas. As an experienced hegemon, the United States is well aware that it has to give way to China’s rise, but in the meantime, it is hoping to slow down this process, as well as to increase the cost of the rise of China’s maritime power. In order to achieve this, the Obama administration shifted its military deployments to the Second Island Chain, strengthened the mobility of the First Island Chain, and urged its allies and partners to make further input so as to form an arc (from northern Japan to Darwin, Australia) to counterbalance China. However, the new Trump administration, whilst promising to “make America great again” and emphasizing “America first,” is likely to place more stress on domestic development and demand other countries assume more responsibilities.

Nevertheless, the Trump administration will continue to counterbalance China, but in practice, it might adopt a more tiered approach (e.g. prioritizing the North Korean nuclear issue first, and then the East China Sea and Taiwan, then the South China Sea, and so on) rather than carry on the arc strategy employed by the Obama administration.

If “core interest” is considered as vital to a nation as the brain is to the human body, freedom of navigation, though critical for the U.S. Navy, is not one of the United States’ core interests. The key to the U.S. Navy’s definition of freedom of navigation is the right to conduct military activities (including intelligence gathering) within other countries’ exclusive economic zones. To this end, the United States defined freedom of navigation in its own favor after World War II and promoted its stand with its much superior naval power. The reason behind the establishment of the Freedom of Navigation Program in 1979 is to continuously promote the United States’ maritime claims using its own domestic laws and regulations, even after the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) took effect, and to challenge what the United States regards as “excessive maritime claims.”

The Freedom of Navigation Program in practice carries out out Freedom of Navigation Operations (FONOPs) to challenge maritime claims by both allies and opponents. The South China Sea is a major area for carrying out FONOPs, but it is not the only one. In this context, FONOPs in the South China Sea are more of a bargaining chip, just like FONOPs in the Black Sea during the Cold War. Furthermore, after the United States lost its “Filipino arm” when President Rodrigo Duterte scaled back military cooperation with the United States, the significance of FONOPs is also greatly reduced. All told, then, the external environment is more conducive than anytime in recent memory for China to pursue peace in the South China Sea.

*Internal Environment*

The South China Sea issue involves mainland China, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei. The six other ASEAN countries are non-claimants; of these, Indonesia and Singapore are more influential on the South China Sea issue.

_ASEAN Non-Claimants_

Even though Indonesia is not one of the parties claiming disputed islands and reefs, there are about 50,000 square kilometers of exclusive economic zone north of its Natuna Islands situated within China’s nine-dash line. In order to strengthen its claim, not only has Indonesia been sending immigrants to the Natuna Islands for the past 20 years or so, in recent times, it also boosted military deployments to the area. Overall, though, Indonesia seems to be more discrete and realistic about the South China Sea issue.

When Joko “Jokowi” Widodo assumed the presidency in 2014, he put forward a vision for Indonesia to become a “global maritime fulcrum.” With a willingness to promote economic development, he pledged his support to China’s Belt and Road Initiative. China regards Indonesia as one of the key players in building the Belt and Road. At this stage, China-Indonesia cooperation has been continuously deepening. More to the point, Jokowi announced publicly during his 2014 election campaign that the South China Sea issue is so complicated that he would not to pay much attention to it unless a good potential solution emerges. That indicates Jokowi will probably keep a sound relationship with China — although during his re-election campaign in 2019, Jokowi might try taking a stronger hand toward the issue in view to fend off his conservative rival, General Prabowo Subianto.

Singapore, as the only developed country of the ASEAN members, with a high dependency on sea trade, is committed to promote ASEAN integration and play a “chief of staff” role. When it comes to the South China Sea issue, Singapore is keen on acting strongly against China. This, in the past few years, has inevitably led to turbulence in the China-Singapore relationship. However, given that Singapore’s economy is highly compatible with China’s, it has neither the ability nor the intention to openly confront China. Vietnam and the Philippines’ preferences to not publicly confront China are also holding back Singapore’s ambitions. These together indicate that Singapore will not pursue a radical SCS policy in the near future.

_ASEAN Claimants_

Of the four ASEAN claimants, Vietnam and the Philippines clearly have more disagreements with China, and they advocate using a multilateral framework to solve the issue. The Philippines in the past even attempted to pursue its interests through third-party arbitration by filing a case with the Permanent Court of Arbitration. Malaysia and Brunei, in contrast, are more settled about the South China Sea issue. Politically, they are more prone to using a bilateral framework to solve the issue, while managing differences and promoting cooperation.

There are two groups of political elites within the Vietnamese government – the Southern Clique and the Northern Clique. The new Vietnamese government is mainly formed by the Northern Clique, which is by and large China-friendly. Thus China and Vietnam are likely to maintain a relatively friendly relationship until 2021. As history suggests, the delimitation of land borders and the maritime boundary in the Beibu Gulf (Gulf of Tonkin) were all achieved under friendly circumstances. In this sense, Vietnam and China stand a good chance of coming to some common understanding over the South China Sea issue under the current Vietnamese government.

Likewise, there is a window of opportunity with the Philippines. The South China Sea policy adopted by former Philippine President Benigno Aquino III drove China-Philippines relationship to a nadir, and directly caused the “globalization” of the SCS disputes. After Duterte’s inauguration in 2016, the Philippines’ revised SCS policy has made great improvements to the China-Philippines relationship. At present, the prospects for China-Philippines ties are no less optimistic than they were during the Arroyo period, and the impact of SCS issue is kept to a minimum. Until the next presidential election, due in 2022, Duterte is very likely to continue this friendly approach, and limit the impact of SCS issue on bilateral relations.

As for Malaysia, since Prime Minister Najib Razak came to power in 2009, China-Malaysia relations has seen their best era in history. Najib insists on dealing with the SCS issue through a bilateral framework, and quietly resolved the recent Luconia Breakers dispute. Compare that to the previous prime ministers who set foot on Swallow Reef to claim ownership. At the moment, Najib is most likely to continue his premiership for another four years after the next election.

Finally, there has been an obvious increase in economic cooperation between China and Brunei in recent years. When it comes to jointly developing offshore oil and gas resources, Brunei holds a positive attitude and co-signed a joint declaration with China on the subject in 2013. Given that this joint development was hugely delayed due to Malaysia’s objection, a commonly understood solution to the South China Sea issue is in no doubt in Brunei’s favor.

_Taiwan_

Taiwan’s South China Sea stand mainly comes from the South China Sea Policy Guidelines established in 1993, which clearly stated that the waters within the nine-dash line are its “historic waters.” Although Taiwan is very unlikely to have a seat at the negotiation table over the South China Sea issue, there is still the possibility that it could carry out cooperation with the ASEAN countries. However, given her leanings toward “Taiwan independence” it’s likely that Tsai Ing-wen will be less concerned about the South China Sea issue than Ma Ying-jeou was.

_Mainland China_

In China, Xi Jinping might be the most powerful leader since Mao Zedong. While he is fully capable of making and implementing major foreign policies (e.g. the Belt and Road Initiative), including pursuing a resolution to the South China Sea disputes. The key lies in making the case that such foreign policy initiatives are necessary.

The Belt and Road Initiative is a top-level blueprint for foreign relations determined by the new Chinese government under Xi. Centering on economic development, it emphasizes promoting infrastructure and manufacturing throughout the Asia-Pacific, Eurasia, and even parts of Africa. In the promotion of the BRI, China has shown the leadership and responsibility of a great power to some extent, but at the same time, it also should realize that there still are political, security, and cultural differences slowing down the process. One of those is the South China Sea issue.

As the biggest coastal country of the South China Sea, it falls to China to come up with a “win-win” plan to sort out the SCS issue and take the lead in the process. Other claimants do not have the capacity to do so. At present, China is swinging between “protecting rights first” and “keeping SCS stability first.” The former focuses on China’s own national interests rather than those of the other claimants; the latter focuses on controlling differences, so as to keep the impact of the South China Sea issue to a minimum and carry on cooperation in other aspects. Given that both of these ideas center on China’s unilateral interests, they neither facilitate avoiding tensions nor help resolve the fundamental issue.

In addition to promoting economic cooperation with its neighboring countries, China, as a rising great power, should also take into consideration their security concerns and gain their trust in cooperation with China. Otherwise, China will see its neighboring countries turn to other partners. China must remember that the SCS dispute is the most important regional security issue for ASEAN countries.

As it stands, the SCS disputes have already gotten in the way of building the Southeast Asian hub of the Maritime Silk Road (MSR). Not only did the disputes sabotage the enthusiasm of the ASEAN claimants, but also wounded the participation of non-claimants. This is the main reason why Vietnam continuously replies that it “has to further observe” the Belt and Road Initiative before making a decision. The South China Sea issue is now like an infection in the China-ASEAN relationship; the treatment is a binding multilateral working framework.

Based on the above discussion, both the external environment and internal environment for resolving the South China Sea issue are in China’s favor at the moment. Should China miss this time window, there is a good chance that this “infection” will flare up once again at the slightest touch.

The next few years provide a window of opportunity for the claimants to work together to push forward a solution to the South China Sea issue. Rather than settling in to this seemingly peaceful but temporary situation, China should take this opportunity to initiate a new approach to the South China Sea issue so as to take the lead in the problem-solving process and fundamentally end this passive situation. The key to this new approach should be the idea of a win-win, comprehensive plan to resolve the South China Sea issue. Not only is this China’s obligation as a rising great power, but it is also the solution to the security concerns of the Southeast Asian countries, as well as the key the building the Southeast Asian hub of the MSR.

_Xue Li is a Professor at the Institute of World Economics and Politics, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences_

_Cheng Zhangxi has a Ph.D. from the University of St. Andrews._


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## Viet

There are other news around the world

*Cambodia* 

The communist chief Nguyen Phu Trong on a visit to Cambodia. He shows generousity by donating $25 million, 50 computers and 2 ambulance cars for the Khmer. But as everyone knows it, nothing is free in this world, Vietnam expects economic and strategic benefits in return.








*Russia* 

Reporter: It is reported that Vietnam has expressed interest in ordering the third pair of Russian Gepard-3.9 Frigates, can you tell us about the actual status?

Mr. Mikheev: Both sides have discussed the project, we hope to make the decision soon.





Ông Mikheev - Tổng giám đốc Rosoboronexport (người ngồi giữa) trả lời các phóng viên quốc tế tại Triển lãm MAKS 2017. Ảnh: Bình Nguyên

Besides the first batch of T90S tanks to be delivered this year, Russia will transfer specially made armor verhicles for Vietnam infantry and equipment for Vietnamese Navy. So Mikheev, General Director of Rosoboronexport.

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## xiao qi

*Vietnamese and Lao armies to boost technical cooperation*
*PANO – Senior Lieutenant General Be Xuan Truong, member of the Party Central Committee and Deputy Minister of National Defense hosted a reception for his Lao counterpart Lieutenant General Esamay Luangvanxay, who is also Director of the General Department of Techniques of the Lao People’s Army (LPA) on July 25 at the defense ministry’s headquarters.*






Senior Lieutenant General Be Xuan Truong receiving his Lao counterpart Lieutenant General Esamay Luangvanxay on July 25
At the reception, the two senior officers held that bilateral defense ties have been enhanced practically and effectively over the past time.


The guest briefed the host on the outcomes of his previous meeting with commanders of the General Department of Techniques of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA). The two sides reached consensus on technical cooperation in the time to come, with a focus on building long-term training programs and providing technical supply for strategic units of the Lao Defense Ministry and the LPA’s General Department of Techniques.

For his part, the host affirmed that the Vietnamese defense leaders would always create favorable conditions for the two armies’ technical sectors to boost cooperation, contributing to serving each country’s national defense and security.


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## Viet

SOUTHEAST ASIA POLITICS
*South Vietnam flag still flies high*
Vietnam's bid to pressure Australia into banning the flag shows how sensitive the symbol remains more than 40 years after the fall of Saigon 

By HELEN CLARK 
PERTH, JULY 23, 2017 1:33 PM 





Ethnic Vietnamese fly the flag of former South Vietnam in Orange Country, California. Photo: Wikimedia Commons

Buried at the bottom of a detailed account of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s trip to the G-20 Summit were a few lines on his meeting with Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc. Though Vietnam is not a part of the G-20, a grouping of the top 20 economies in the world, Phuc and other leaders travelled to the event for meetings on the sidelines.

“In his discussion with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, the Vietnamese leader raised concerns about five local councils in Australia that reportedly support the flying of the ‘yellow’ flag, which was the flag of the former government of South Vietnam,” reported Fairfax media. “Mr Nguyen asked Mr Turnbull to exert his influence and stop the practice.”

How Turnbull responded to this request in their private bilateral is not known. Like the United States, Australia has been asked to repress the flag before but it still flies freely in many areas of the country where Vietnamese diaspora have settled, many of them refugees from the country previously known as the Republic of Vietnam.

Though an evergreen issue with Hanoi’s communist-led government, not much has been said about it in recent years, especially as new generations of young overseas Vietnamese return to start businesses and repair ties.

Vietnam’s government has long tried to quash the old flag flown by its diaspora in remembrance of the country’s previous division between capitalism and communism, so far to little avail. US freedom of speech laws mean it cannot be banned there.

In 2015, the issue arose uncomfortably in the US at an event marking the 40-year anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War.





A parade marking the 40th anniversary of the fall of Saigon in Ho Chi Minh City on April 30, 2015. Photo: AFP/Hoang Dinh Nam


The US government would not allow the South Vietnamese flag to be flown at its Camp Pendleton base, which received around 50,000 of the refugees who fled the fall of Saigon immediately after the war, as bases may not fly the flag of nations the government does not recognize.

It is, however, recognized as a symbol of the Vietnamese community in a dozen or so US states, including in California’s Orange County and other areas of the state with large ethnic Vietnamese populations. The Garden Grove City Council in California earlier this year moved to reaffirm a previous 2003 resolution that the South Vietnam yellow and red horizontal striped flag is the only recognized flag of Vietnam.

The well-organized and politically vocal community in California, whose older generation leans strongly Republican, flies the flag at various community events. Banned inside Vietnam, pro-democracy groups like Viet Tan also hoist the flag at their overseas events calling for political change. Vietnam War veterans also display it during commemorative events.





Vietnam War Vets take part in a July 4th parade in Santa Barbara, California on June 23, 2017. Photo: iStock/Getty Images


In Australia, the Maribyrnong Council in Melbourne, home to suburbs like Footscray with large Vietnamese populations, recognizes and flies the flag.

Viv Nguyen, then the vice-president of the Vietnamese Community of Australia (VCA), told the neighborhood newspaper Star Weekly in 2015, “If people feel strongly about the red flag, good for them, but the [South Vietnam] flag is not representative of another sovereignty,” she said.

“It represents a journey this community started from a very tough beginning.” The “yellow flag” will fly on special days, like Australia’s ANZAC Day, which commemorates the war dead each year with a dawn service.

While allowed at the small council level, Canberra firmly forbids the VCA from bringing the flag to official events in the capital. The Hanoi government regards the flag as illegal and it is strictly banned within Vietnam.

Vietnam’s attempt at political inference might seem unusual for Australia, which more often worries about Chinese political influence or meddling in its domestic affairs.

These have been many, from attempts to influence the Chinese diaspora’s opinions on China’s naval sovereignty to the Kimberley Process debacle in Perth earlier this year, when Chinese delegates interrupted the opening speeches and refused to allow the event to continue until the Taiwanese delegation had left.

However, Hanoi also has a long history of keeping tabs on Vietnamese refugee communities that settled in the West after the war, as documented vividly in Viet Thanh Nguyen’s Pulitzer Prize-winning novel The Sympathizer.





Australia’s Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, US President Donald Trump and Vietnam’s Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc with their spouses at the G-20 Summit in Hamburg, Germany, on July 7, 2017. Photo: AFP/John Macdougall


Nothing much will likely come of Phuc’s overture to Turnbull over the flag, something the well-educated and worldly people at Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs would, or should, know.

Vietnam has recently launched yet another harsh crackdown on its dissidents, sentencing several to prison terms for their political opinions. Communist authorities view the flag and the people who fly it overseas as linked to campaigns aimed at undermining or even toppling its rule.

The VCA is regarded with suspicion in Hanoi and its members and associates are firmly banned from returning to Vietnam. Indeed, they are often turned back at the gates of Ho Chi Minh City’s airport upon landing.

Last year the VCA organized large protests in Australian cities against the Vietnamese government’s handling of the Formosa pollution scandal, viewed as one of the country’s worst ever environmental disasters. Many protest leaders were jailed. The Australian protests called on Turnbull to bring political pressure to bear on Hanoi.





Vietnamese protesters demonstrate at a rally in downtown Hanoi on May 1, 2016 against a toxic spill that caused massive fish deaths on country’s central coast. Photo: AFP/Hoang Dinh Nam


Carlyle Thayer, one of the world’s leading experts on Vietnamese politics and security affairs, gave a talk on human rights to the VCA in Dapto, New South Wales, last year.

For this, Thayer believes he may have been prevented from attending the upcoming Center for Strategic and International Studies’ (CSIS) 7th South China Sea conference in Washington due to pressure from Hanoi. Hanoi’s state-run Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam (DAV) and its associated Foundation for East Sea Studies will be represented and help to fund the conference.

Thayer, an Australian national, said that DAV had imposed a ‘no Australians’ rule for a conference it held on the South China Sea in 2016. CSIS has since said its decision on participants for its conference was made independently.

The dust-up could reflect quiet diplomatic tension between Vietnam and Australia since last year over an incident that saw Australian envoys unceremoniously sent home from Vietnam. There was also displeasure in Hanoi when its aid was cut, owing to overall huge cuts by Australia and Vietnam’s raised status as a lower-middle income country.





Ethnic Vietnamese celebrate Australia Day at Melbourne City Centre by flying South Vietnam’s flag. Photo: iStock/Getty Images


Still, Australian foreign minister Julie Bishop and her counterpart Pham Binh Minh met late last year in Canberra to agree upon a bilateral 2016 – 2019 Joint Action Plan. The plan, confirmed by Turnbull, is to elevate Australian-Vietnamese ties to a “strategic partnership”, whereas it currently stands at a lesser “enhanced comprehensive partnership.”

Former Australian leader Kevin Rudd decided in 2009 against improving ties to such a degree. His government’s use of the word ‘enhanced’ was a diplomatic compromise. Despite Vietnam’s previous drive to boost strategic ties, sources say it is Australia that is now pushing for better relations in light of the rising strategic uncertainties in the Donald Trump era.

Possibly as a result, Phuc asked Turnbull for the removal of the South Vietnam flags at a time when Australia is inclined for favors. The troubled Turnbull, still unpopular in Australia and within his own party, will almost certainly not grant Phuc’s wish, knowing the public fight he’ll face over a freedom of expression issue if he does.

Last year the VCA’s Brisbane chapter forced the name change of a hipster Vietnamese restaurant known as Uncle Ho, clipped reference to Vietnamese revolutionary leader Ho Chi Minh, a man many in Australia’s diaspora view as a murderer.

If communist kitsch can provoke such a visceral reaction, expect a spirited fight to any suggestion to bring down their proud flags.

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## Viet

July 27, 2017 6:42 am JST
*NEC, Sumitomo to aid Vietnam satellite project*
Japanese team seeks to step up expansion into emerging countries





NEC aims to break into emerging markets by offering low-cost satellites. 


TOKYO -- NEC and Sumitomo Corp. will soon sign a contract worth 19 billion yen ($170 million) for a satellite launch project in Vietnam.

The Japanese team will handle one of the two Earth observation satellites Vietnam plans to launch, and intends to bid for the other project as well. The Southeast Asian nation has suffered from typhoon-induced floods in recent years.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/NEC-Sumitomo-to-aid-Vietnam-satellite-project


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's right, we have a new situation now, the bully said: "stop the drilling or we attack your islands", that's the new chinese way of behaving in this region, they already feel that is almost theirs. Bad situation and there hasn't even been a comment or condemnation from USA, Trump is busy dealing with a lot of internal issues there and they'll have to deal with North Korea soon, so they don't need to open up new fronts right now and of course, the chinese understand that very well.
> 
> Bad situation all around.


We are not country the Chinese can intimidate. Once they issue a threat they cross a certain threshold. Depending on how serious is the threat, anyone can expect a proper response from Vietnam. Although I don't expect we will make a decisive preemptive strike as seen in the war against the Song.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> We are not country the Chinese can intimidate. Once they issue a threat they cross a certain threshold. Depending on how serious is the threat, anyone can expect a proper response from Vietnam. Although I don't expect we will make a decisive preemptive strike as seen in the war against the Song.



My feeling is that VN will do a tactical pause to think very well about the options and plan the next steps and consult with friends. I think the drilling will go on again later in the year and by the way, the Spanish company already spent $300 million on this project.

Still, there is no denying that there is a whole new situation in the region now and the chinese are ready to use military force, so there are no easy options, VN is in a bad situation no matter what. The chinese are not going to do a ground war which is where it would be difficult for them and easier for VN. If they take military action it will be where VN is weak and doesn't have any good options and that's precisely what they had threatened to do. VN needs powerful friends in this situation.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> My feeling is that VN will do a tactical pause to think very well about the options and plan the next steps and consult with friends. I think the drilling will go on again later in the year and by the way, the Spanish company already spent $300 million of this project.
> 
> Still, there is no denying that there is a whole new situation in the region now and the chinese are ready to use military force, so there are no easy options, VN is in a bad situation no matter what. The chinese are not going to do a grund war which is where it would be difficult for them and easier for VN. If they take military action it will be where VN is weak and doesn't have any good options and that's precisely what they had threatened to do. VN needs powerful friends in this situation.


We are seen as poor and weak hence we are bullied by every hooligan and the Chinese has proved again and again as the master of all hooligans, having an ugly face behind a friendly mask.

The question is what is the best strategy?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> We are seen as poor and weak hence we are bullied by every hooligan and the Chinese has proved again and again as the master of all hooligans, having an ugly face behind a friendly mask.
> 
> The question is what is the best strategy?



Well, in this new situation Vietnam can't act alone or it will lose, Vietnam does not have the military capacity to stop China, we can dream as much as we want, but reality doesn't go away. The only way to oppose China is having a strong alliance with a big power.

We'll have to see what happens between N. Korea and USA, It seems like unless there is a dramatic change in the next few months, US will attack N. Korea and after that, It will be free to take a tough stand against China in SCS.

What is really needed is a NATO of east asia.

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## Tom99

Carlosa said:


> Well, in this new situation Vietnam can't act alone or it will lose, Vietnam does not have the military capacity to stop China, we can dream as much as we want, but reality doesn't go away. The only way to oppose China is having a strong alliance with a big power.




"If Vietnam can beat China once" before, so it can easily do it again. This is not 1979.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-vietnam-can-beat-china-so-can-india-this-is-not-1962.508716/



> We'll have to see what happens between N. Korea and USA, It seems like unless there is a dramatic change in the next few months, US will attack N. Korea and after that, It will be free to take a tough stand against China in SCS.



Nope, USA is not going to invade North Korea "in the next few months."


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## terranMarine

That Carlosa is just a joke with his analysis. Just as he was convinced Indian Aircraft Carrier would be finished before CV-17 made him look like a fool. He was also convinced China would be in big trouble after Trump is elected and things between US and Russia would get better and Putin ready to dump China

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## Carlosa

Tom99 said:


> "If Vietnam can beat China once" before, so it can easily do it again. This is not 1979.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-vietnam-can-beat-china-so-can-india-this-is-not-1962.508716/
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, USA is not going to invade North Korea "in the next few months."



Obviously you are not aware of the statement from a top US general a few days ago saying that there will be US military action if the current situation has not changed (and they don't think it will change) in the next few months. Trump already made up his mind.

But nope, you surely know better and have better intelligence about the Pentagon, right?



terranMarine said:


> That Carlosa is just a joke with his analysis. Just as he was convinced Indian Aircraft Carrier would be finished before CV-17 made him look like a fool. He was also convinced China would be in big trouble after Trump is elected and things between US and Russia would get better and Putin ready to dump China



Just learning from the biggest chinese joke in PDF, terranMarine, but you always manage to win as such.



Tom99 said:


> "If Vietnam can beat China once" before, so it can easily do it again. This is not 1979.
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/if-vietnam-can-beat-china-so-can-india-this-is-not-1962.508716/
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, USA is not going to invade North Korea "in the next few months."



Here is the info, read and learn something:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/top-us...tion-against-north-korea-in-a-few-more-months

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## Tom99

Carlosa said:


> Obviously you are not aware of the statement from a top US general a few days ago saying that there will be US military action if the current situation has not changed (and they don't think it will change) in the next few months. Trump already made up his mind.
> 
> But nope, you surely know better and have better intelligence about the Pentagon, right?



https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...litary-engagement-would-be-horrific/23045628/


> Tensions between the U.S. and North Korea continue to escalate, but Gen. Joe Dunford, the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman, warns against engaging in a military conflict with the reclusive Asian nation, reports Time.
> 
> ...
> 
> Pursuing a military solution rather than one based in diplomacy and economic measures would be, according to Dunford, "horrific."
> 
> He further commented, "it would be a loss of life unlike any we have experienced in our lifetimes."



I don't think I know/have better intelligence from the Pentagon regarding NK. However, I think I do understand it better than you when we also consider the real world political, economical and social consequences of such an action.

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## Carlosa

Tom99 said:


> https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...litary-engagement-would-be-horrific/23045628/
> 
> 
> I don't think I know/have better intelligence from the Pentagon regarding NK. However, I think I do understand it better than you when we also consider the real world political, economical and social consequences of such an action.



Trump's determination to make sure that NK will not become a nuclear threat to the American mainland overrides the political, economical and social consequences of such an action. The guy is a lose cannon and certainly trigger happy. China may end up learning that the hard way.


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Trump's determination to make sure that NK will not become a nuclear threat to the American mainland overrides the political, economical and social consequences of such an action. The guy is a lose cannon and certainly trigger happy. China may end up learning that the hard way.


Do you believe the US will attack NK in the future and ignore the diplomatic solution?


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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Do you believe the US will attack NK in the future and ignore the diplomatic solution?



The problem is that there is no reasonable diplomatic solution that can work for both sides. US demands that he gives up nuclear weapons and he will not, as the article says, they know that's the one thing he will not give up, therefore, if china does not commit to massive economic damage to NK that could possibly bring the regime down (China doesn't want to do that), the US will attack or assassinate him.

US believes that NK will have a reliable ICBM that can hit USA sometime in 2018, that's why they will not wait much longer. Trump had already promised that he will not allow it.

*China Won't Help America Subdue North Korea*
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...lp-america-subdue-north-korea-21518?page=show

*Increasing Alarm: North Korea's Ballistic Missiles Could Reach US by 2018*
https://sputniknews.com/military/201707271055936128-north-korea-ballistic-missiles-us-alarmed/

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## Carlosa

*Escalation sees Itu Aba allocated howitzers*

*EMPTY THREAT?The Vietnamese military has dug artillery positions on Sandy Cay, 13km from Itu Aba, but has not yet occupied them with military pieces, an official said*
By Lo Tien-pin and Jonathan Chin / Staff reporter, with staff writer

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/tai...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

The military has given the Coast Guard Administration six 155mm howitzers which it is holding in reserve for deployment on Itu Aba Island (Taiping Island 太平島) if more firepower is needed to bolster the island’s defenses, a defense official who declined to be named said on Sunday.

Itu Aba is the largest naturally occurring landmass in the Spratly Islands (Nansha Islands, 南沙群島), some or all of which are also claimed by China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.

The coast guard took up the military’s offer to supply heavy guns after reviewing the Ministry of National Defense’s recommendations in April for defending Itu Aba, which is the coast guard’s responsibility, the official said.

The howitzers are to be stored on Taiwan proper and would not be deployed unless nations with military bases near the island decide to undermine the balance of power by reinforcing their garrisons first, the official said.

It is not Taiwan’s policy to alter the balance of power by increasing the firepower of its garrison without provocation, the official said.

The most significant military threat to Itu Aba is Vietnam’s illegal military occupation of Sandy Cay (Dunqian Cay, 敦謙沙洲), which lies 13km from the island, the official said.

The howitzers have an effective range of 14.6km, enough to reach guns the Vietnamese military is rumored to be placing on Sandy Cay, the official said.

Although the Vietnamese military has dug artillery positions on Sandy Cay, it has not deployed artillery pieces yet, the official said, adding the Taiwanese garrison would carefully watch for any developments and respond if the situation changes.

The ministry in April said that coast guards on Itu Aba might need heavy weapons to complement their 20mm and 40mm guns, 81mm and 120mm mortars, AT-4 rocket launchers and small arms.

The ministry report said Itu Aba’s defenses should be bolstered with drones, mobile radar systems, an integrated surveillance and defense system, multiple-launch rocket artillery turrets and double-barrel 20mm guns.

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## Viet

Vietnam wants to acquire 200 T90MS tanks in medium term, assumes Igor Sevastyanov (Rosoboronexport).

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## Viet

US President Donald Trump has nominated Daniel Kritenbrink to be the new US ambassador to Vietnam, the White House said on Wednesday. Kritenbrink once worked as deputy chief of mission in Beijing and is fluent in Chinese and Japanese. He currently works as senior advisor for North Korea policy at State Department.







Vice Admiral Ray Griggs is paying a visit to the army headquarters. It is reported, Griggs will deliver a speech explaining Australia's military buildup.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Vietnam wants to acquire 200 T90MS tanks in medium term, assumes Igor Sevastyanov (Rosoboronexport).
> 
> View attachment 414320



Don't think too much about that, I had read it also, Its just speculation, what it means is that the Russians believe that there is market in Vietnam to sell up to 200 tanks over the long run, but its just a marketing wish, who knows how it will go. It would be nice though.

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## Viet

A stat. Vietnam lost about 1.2 million soldiers in the three major wars of the last century (France, America and China). The number of civil casualties is much higher.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Don't think too much about that, I had read it also, Its just speculation, what it means is that the Russians believe that there is market in Vietnam to sell up to 200 tanks over the long run, but its just a marketing wish, who knows how it will go. It would be nice though.


It is not a secret to tell Vietnam military acquisition depends on security environment on land, air and sea. Should any of the parameters change, let say a threat at land, the money will flow into the area quickly.

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## Viet

The Guardian reports UK will send two newest aircraft carriers HMS _Queen Elizabeth_ and her sister ship HMS _Prince of Wales_ into the waters of South China Sea.

“One of the first things we will do with the two new colossal aircraft carriers that we have just built is send them on a freedom of navigation operation to this area,” Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said in Sydney on Thursday. He said the aim of the commitment is “to vindicate our belief in the rules-based international system and in the freedom of navigation through those waterways which are absolutely vital for world trade.”

Welcome to the party!

@mike2000 is back

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## Carlosa

As I told the chinese trolls yesterday:
*'Time running out' to solve North Korea crisis – US Army chief of staff

https://www.rt.com/usa/397769-us-army-chief-north-korea/*


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> The Guardian reports UK will send two newest aircraft carriers HMS _Queen Elizabeth_ and her sister ship HMS _Prince of Wales_ into the waters of South China Sea.
> 
> “One of the first things we will do with the two new colossal aircraft carriers that we have just built is send them on a freedom of navigation operation to this area,” Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said in Sydney on Thursday. He said the aim of the commitment is “to vindicate our belief in the rules-based international system and in the freedom of navigation through those waterways which are absolutely vital for world trade.”
> 
> Welcome to the party!
> 
> @mike2000 is back
> 
> 
> View attachment 414433
> 
> View attachment 414434


However, within minutes of the speech he appeared to sow some confusion over his promise. In a question-and-answer session he said: “We haven’t yet quite decided to do that. OK?” He went on: “I don’t want you to to go out and start scanning the horizons. But they are coming, they are coming. Don’t expect them tomorrow.”


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> It is not a secret to tell Vietnam military acquisition depends on security environment on land, air and sea. Should any of the parameters change, let say a threat at land, the money will flow into the area quickly.



I would put money into longer range ballistic and cruise missiles in order to strike deep into China, combat UAV's armed with anti ship / air to ground missiles, get the damn AWACS planes once and for all, they might have been ordered already but in secret as usual, I don't know.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I would put money into longer range ballistic and cruise missiles in order to strike deep into China, combat UAV's armed with anti ship / air to ground missiles, get the damn AWACS planes once and for all, they might have been ordered already but in secret as usual, I don't know.


Rest assured Vietnamese people are generally not stupid the Chinese should understand not provoke us too much. Vietnam is building up a $6.8 billion petroleum strategic reserves. And that is just the beginning.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/vietnam-oil-idUKL3N1KJ1IH

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam says others should respect its right to drill for South China Sea oil*
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-vietnam-china-idUSKBN1AD1FB
January 17, 2013.Quang Le

HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnam on Friday said other countries should respect its legitimate right to drill for oil in its waters amid growing tension with China over energy development in the South China Sea.

The drilling began in mid-June in Vietnam's Block 136/3, which is licensed to Vietnam's state oil firm, Spain's Repsol and Mubadala Development Co [MUDEV.UL] of the United Arab Emirates.

The block lies inside the U-shaped "nine-dash line" that marks the vast area that China claims in the sea and overlaps what it says are its own oil concessions.

China on Tuesday urged a halt to the drilling.

"Vietnam's petroleum-related activities take place in the sea entirely under the sovereignty and jurisdiction of Vietnam established in accordance with international law," Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said in a statement sent to Reuters.

"Vietnam proposes all concerned parties to respect the legitimate rights and interests of Vietnam."

This week, the BBC reported that Vietnam had halted drilling there after Chinese threats, but there was no independent confirmation and neither Vietnamese officials nor Repsol made any comment on the report.

Thomson Reuters data showed the drilling ship Deepsea Metro I was in the same position on Friday as it had been since drilling began on the block in the middle of June.

China claims most of the energy-rich South China Sea through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

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## Oldman1

SEAISI said:


> Actually it does. China did not claim the entire SCS. They claim the islands within the 9 dash line.



Really? Thats what the 9 dash line was for? Could have just circle all the islands they want to claim.

http://time.com/4412191/nine-dash-line-9-south-china-sea/

Wang Ying, a Chinese marine geographer, also feels aggrieved by the tribunal’s award. “They didn’t respect history,” she says, of the international court. “I totally agree with the response of our government.” The 81-year-old member of the prestigious Chinese Academy of Sciences is the disciple of Yang Huairen, a Chinese geographer who, in 1947, helped etch the U-shaped, 11-dash line on Chinese maps to demarcate roughly 90% of the contested South China Sea for his homeland. “All the lines have a scientific basis,” says Wang, who still teaches at Nanjing University in eastern China. “I’m a scientist, not someone in politics.”
*
Ultimately, it’s not even clear what the nine-dash line means to China. Is it all water within the boundary or all territorial features? For the average Chinese, every drop of sea within the dashes is clearly China’s. “The discontinuous line,” says Wang, “means the national border on the sea.” The geographer clarifies further. “The dash lines mean the ocean, islands and reefs all belong to China and that China has sovereign rights,” she says. “But it’s discontinuous, meaning that other countries can pass through the lines freely.”*

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## Carlosa

Oldman1 said:


> Really? Thats what the 9 dash line was for? Could have just circle all the islands they want to claim.
> 
> http://time.com/4412191/nine-dash-line-9-south-china-sea/
> 
> Wang Ying, a Chinese marine geographer, also feels aggrieved by the tribunal’s award. “They didn’t respect history,” she says, of the international court. “I totally agree with the response of our government.” The 81-year-old member of the prestigious Chinese Academy of Sciences is the disciple of Yang Huairen, a Chinese geographer who, in 1947, helped etch the U-shaped, 11-dash line on Chinese maps to demarcate roughly 90% of the contested South China Sea for his homeland. “All the lines have a scientific basis,” says Wang, who still teaches at Nanjing University in eastern China. “I’m a scientist, not someone in politics.”
> *
> Ultimately, it’s not even clear what the nine-dash line means to China. Is it all water within the boundary or all territorial features? For the average Chinese, every drop of sea within the dashes is clearly China’s. “The discontinuous line,” says Wang, “means the national border on the sea.” The geographer clarifies further. “The dash lines mean the ocean, islands and reefs all belong to China and that China has sovereign rights,” she says. “But it’s discontinuous, meaning that other countries can pass through the lines freely.”*



China's actions on the ground already make it very clear that they claim all the waters which is the reason why they claim that military ships need their permission to pass and when they do, they followed / shadow them constantly. Every time a country says that they will send ships to patrol, the chinese clearly state that is a provocative, illegal action, they say it all the time. Its all very clear. Obviously, those actions and statements are only possible if they claim all the waters.

The thing about only claiming the islands is just a marketing ploy in the salami slicing technique that they been using. And anyway, anybody that understand / follows chinese actions can see that whatever they say / agree / promise / put down in a piece of paper has no value whatsoever. The chinese will change or stop implementing it at the moment that is convenient to them. Case in point, the Hong Kong treaty with the British that the chinese just declared that they are not bound by it, its just a "historical document". No need to say anything else, that episode speaks by itself.


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## Oldman1

Carlosa said:


> China's actions on the ground already make it very clear that they claim all the waters which is the reason why they claim that military ships need their permission to pass and when they do, they followed / shadow them constantly. Every time a country says that they will send ships to patrol, the chinese clearly state that is a provocative, illegal action, they say it all the time. Its all very clear. Obviously, those actions and statements are only possible if they claim all the waters.
> 
> The thing about only claiming the islands is just a marketing ploy in the salami slicing technique that they been using. And anyway, anybody that understand / follows chinese actions can see that whatever they say / agree / promise / put down in a piece of paper has no value whatsoever. The chinese will change or stop implementing it at the moment that is convenient to them. Case in point, the Hong Kong treaty with the British that the chinese just declared that they are not bound by it, its just a "historical document". No need to say anything else, that episode speaks by itself.



Not to mention deterring other countries that are fishing as well.

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## Carlosa

Oldman1 said:


> Not to mention deterring other countries that are fishing as well.



Or drilling for oil as just happened near Vanguard Bank where the Repsol drilling rig is located. I don't see any chinese island anywhere near that area, so.............. oh surprise..........Its the waters.

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## Viet

Oldman1 said:


> Really? Thats what the 9 dash line was for? Could have just circle all the islands they want to claim.
> 
> http://time.com/4412191/nine-dash-line-9-south-china-sea/
> 
> Wang Ying, a Chinese marine geographer, also feels aggrieved by the tribunal’s award. “They didn’t respect history,” she says, of the international court. “I totally agree with the response of our government.” The 81-year-old member of the prestigious Chinese Academy of Sciences is the disciple of Yang Huairen, a Chinese geographer who, in 1947, helped etch the U-shaped, 11-dash line on Chinese maps to demarcate roughly 90% of the contested South China Sea for his homeland. “All the lines have a scientific basis,” says Wang, who still teaches at Nanjing University in eastern China. “I’m a scientist, not someone in politics.”
> *
> Ultimately, it’s not even clear what the nine-dash line means to China. Is it all water within the boundary or all territorial features? For the average Chinese, every drop of sea within the dashes is clearly China’s. “The discontinuous line,” says Wang, “means the national border on the sea.” The geographer clarifies further. “The dash lines mean the ocean, islands and reefs all belong to China and that China has sovereign rights,” she says. “But it’s discontinuous, meaning that other countries can pass through the lines freely.”*


There is no such "historic right" in the international relation. Nor historic sovereignty. Whoever says such thing such as the Chinese should consult a doc to check if their own brain is damaged.

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## Carlosa

*Communist Parties Expected to Ease Latest China-Vietnam Maritime Quarrel*
TAIPEI, TAIWAN — 

https://www.voanews.com/a/communist-parties-china-vietnam-maritime-upset/3962636.html?ref=yfp

China has gone back on the verbal offensive against Vietnam, its strongest adversary in the disputed South China Sea, after a year of peacemaking, but analysts believe Communist parties on both sides will meet to prevent any escalation.

The abrupt end last month of a visit to Vietnam by a Chinese military official and apparent pressure from Beijing this month to make Vietnam quit an offshore oil exploration tract have put the two sides at odds. The new tensions come after a year in which officials from the two countries met for talks on maritime cooperation and other economic ties.

Despite the specter of another conflict, such as the anti-China riots of 2014 in Vietnam or the deadly sea clashes of 1974 and 1988, observers expect ruling party leaders from the Communist neighbors will probably meet to put the current dispute on hold.

*Disagreements disappear*

That mechanism has worked for the past five to 10 years, said Oh Ei Sun, international studies instructor at Singapore Nanyang University.

“Typically you see this seemingly quite serious disagreement, but then again there is a very special relationship, a special so-called party-to-party relationship between the Chinese Communist Party and their Vietnamese counterpart, so I would expect in the next few months or even weeks you will see a party delegation,” Oh said.

“And then they will talk things over, and then you will see this sort of dispute would go away at least temporarily,” he said.






South China Sea Territorial Claims
*Back-channel talks*

China may not take Vietnam’s oil exploration “lightly,” but “Vietnam is also testing China,” said Collin Koh, maritime security research fellow at Nanyang Technological University in Singapore. He predicted the two sides would avoid physical conflict.

“You’ll still see these back-channel talks between the two countries, more accurately between the two parties,” Koh said. “Every now and then they will put out those statements, ‘They agree (to) properly manage the dispute. Things are working well, don’t worry, a squabble between Communist brothers here, so we don’t have to worry too much that there’s a war.’”

In April 2015, for example, heads of the two Communist parties pledged to use dialogue in easing the maritime dispute. Less than a year earlier, China touched off rioting in Vietnam by allowing an oil rig to be positioned in disputed waters 240 kilometers east of the Southeast Asian country.

“Obviously as the country with the smaller navy, Vietnam would prefer talks to kinetic activity,” said Murray Hiebert, deputy director of the Southeast Asia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank in Washington. “It’s hard to guess how long the spat will continue, but both sides have interest in avoiding military confrontation at the moment.”

Vietnam will host a 21-member Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in November and China is readying for a major Communist Party congress around the same time, Hiebert noted.

But Koh cautions that the party-to-party statements “don’t carry much meaning” and that China’s vigilance will remain high.

*Overlapping claims to South China Sea*

Beijing and Hanoi have overlapping claims to the 3.5 million-square-kilometer South China Sea. Both have landfilled tiny islets under their respective control. Vietnam is widely regarded as the most aggressive country in resisting China’s claim to more than 90 percent of the sea, which is valued for oil, gas, fish and shipping lanes.

Reports over the past week have said Vietnam told a foreign oil firm to suspend the search for fossil fuels around Vanguard Bank in the Spratly Islands, probably under strong Chinese pressure.

Le Hong Hiep, research fellow with ISEAS Yusof Ishak Institute in Singapore, said Vietnam may have pulled back to soothe China or may have simply finished its work.

But Vietnam expects to continue looking for oil with protection from the July 2016 world arbitration court ruling that says China lacks a legal basis to claim much of the sea that it calls its own, Le said. China rejected the ruling.

Claimants to the South China Sea — including Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan as well — must periodically move to prove their claims are still active, political scientists note.

“From the Vietnamese perspective, the ruling confirms that this area is not disputed and Vietnam has exclusive sovereign right over it,” Le said. “Vietnam is therefore emboldened and believes that their activities there are well justified.”

Last month the vice chairman of the Chinese Central Military Commission cut short a “defense border meeting” in Vietnam, Beijing’s official Xinhua News Agency reported. He left to warn Vietnam against exploring for oil at sea, experts said then.


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## Viet

A reporter from Vietnam has the chance to visit NPO Saturn, the factory that produces turbofans for Su30, S34 and Su35 fighter aircraft. A representative of the company, Polyakov, says NPO Saturn meets the highest requirements for product quality and perfect after-sales service for customer Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

JULY 28, 2017 
*Vietnam asks Indonesia to investigate South China Sea shooting*

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-vietnam-indonesia-idUSKBN1AD1P5

HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnam's foreign minister has asked his Indonesian counterpart to investigate and clarify reports that the Indonesian navy shot and wounded two Vietnamese fishermen in the South China Sea, the foreign ministry said on Friday.

Pham Binh Minh told Indonesian foreign minister Retno Marsudi by telephone that the reported incident was "very serious ... and not appropriate with the strategic partnership relationship between Vietnam and Indonesia," the Vietnamese foreign ministry said in a statement.

"Vietnam is deeply concerned about this incident and proposes Indonesia to quickly investigate and clarify the incident and inform Vietnam of the results and to stop repeating similar acts," Minh was quoting as saying.

Earlier this week, a local Vietnamese sea rescue committee said Indonesia's navy had shot and wounded Vietnamese fishermen aboard a fishing boat in the South China Sea last weekend.

The Vietnamese boat was about 132 nautical miles (245 km) southeast of Vietnam's Con Dao island when the fishermen were shot on Saturday night, the Binh Dinh provincial search and rescue committee said on its website.

The report was pulled off the website the next day.

The Indonesian navy has yet to comment on the incident.

Disputes over fishing rights and oil drilling have stoked tension in the South China Sea, through which about $5 trillion in goods is shipped each year.

China claims almost the entire sea, but Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan also have claims.

Although Indonesia says it is not a party to the dispute, it recently renamed the northern reaches of its exclusive economic zone, asserting its own maritime claim.

The coordinates given by the Vietnamese search and rescue committee indicated that the shooting happened close to the area Indonesia now calls the North Natuna Sea.

Indonesia has sunk hundreds of mostly foreign boats caught illegally fishing in its waters since President Joko Widodo launched a crackdown on the poaching of fish in 2014.

Indonesia and Vietnam said in May they would launch a joint investigation after reports that Vietnamese coast guards had tried to forcibly free five fishing boats and their crew detained in waters near Indonesia's Natuna Islands.

Reporting by Mai Nguyen; Additional reporting by Bernadette Christina Munthe in Jakarta; Editing by Catherine Evans


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## SEAISI

Viet said:


> There is no such "historic right" in the international relation. Nor historic sovereignty. Whoever says such thing such as the Chinese should consult a doc to check if their own brain is damaged.



That's right. The vietnamese should get their brains checked based on what you just said.

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## terranMarine

The monkey keeps telling "China should this" "China should that", man suddenly some Viet starts telling what China has to do as if a Viet is commanding China.

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## Carlosa

*What Will New Russian Tanks Mean for Vietnam’s Military?*
A deeper dive into a much-anticipated acquisition.

By Nguyen The Phuong
July 27, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/what-will-new-russian-tanks-mean-for-vietnams-military/

After years of rumors and waves of expectations, it has finally been confirmed that Vietnam is going to acquire a total of 64 T-90 main-battle tanks from Russia in two variants: the export version T-90S and the commanding version T-90SK. This move officially marks the biggest modernization effort of the Vietnam’s army since the end of the Vietnam War and it is expected to help enhance the force’s capabilities and combat readiness.

Information about new arms acquisitions in Vietnam is hard to track and verify. In the case of the T-90s, there have been rumors over the past years in several defense-related blogs and newspapers regarding the possibility for the Vietnam People’s Ground Forces (VPGF) to obtain the new tanks.

These rumors were based on various speeches, speculations and statements delivered by Russian defense analysts and contractors. They were also drawn from other developments, including Vietnamese military officials’ compliments on the T-90 tank, the purchase of the KZKT-7248 heavy tank tractor (which was said to be preparation for the arrival of a totally new type of tank), and the confirmation of Uralvagonzavod that Hanoi was in negotiation with them for a contract of the tanks back in 2016. Back in 2015, Colonel General Vo Van Tuan, the Vietnam’s People Army’s chief of staff, had also said that the ground forces will become the next focus of defense modernization.

For defense observers, rumors can be either an indicator of possible new contracts or merely a distraction, especially in countries lacking transparent acquisition procedures. Fortunately, the rumors relating to T-90s in Vietnam ended up taking the form of the former. At the sidelines of MAKS 2017 in the outskirts of Moscow, the head of Russian arm exporter Rosoboronexport, Alexander Mikheev, officially confirmed that Vietnam would receive the new tanks with the aid of Russian export credit. Earlier, on July 4, Uralvagonzavod published the final report on its activities for 2016, in which Vietnam was included with the 64 T-90 tanks (though the report was subsequently removed from the company’s website).

As mentioned earlier, this contract would be the biggest effort to modernize the VPGF in decades. Since 2009, the other two branches of the military, the Air Force and the Navy, have been catching the eye of most defense analysts because of their rapid modernization and upgrades. This is the result of rising security uncertainties and the potential for conflict in the maritime domain surrounding the country.

In contrast, the VPGF’s modernization has been late and slow-paced. That stems from two main rationales: (1) low threat perceptions – or, more specifically, little worry that there would be an imminent invasion or large-scaled border incursion from either the northern border with China or the southwestern border with Cambodia and; (2) the lack of resources for comprehensive modernization that could benefit all major branches of the military.

The decision to purchase a whole new batch of T-90 main battle tanks, considered one of the most modern third-generation tanks currently being commissioned, is definitely based on careful consideration of the VPGF’s means and ends, and its doctrine more generally. The principle of this doctrine, in essence, is to construct a modern and powerful armored force capable of maneuvering within various formations of integrated tactical offensive or defensive missions. But first, this armored force has to be able to survive any surgical or preemptive strikes from potential enemies.

Modern warfare, especially from the First Gulf War on, has been largely characterized by advanced technologies and the skillful command and control of an integrated force, where each component of that force is tasked with different but coordinated tactical and strategic missions. As illustrated in Afghanistan and Iraq, the attackers – in this case, Coalition forces led by the United States – usually possess more formidable and deadly firepower, with the deployment of highly advanced long-range missiles, a sophisticated C4ISR network and a nearly invincible and overwhelming air force. In general, speed, accuracy, lethality and efficient of weapons have been drastically increased.

Supported by destructive long-range surgical strikes, enemy armored forces gathering not too far from the border or from the battlefield could be quickly called into battle through airlifts, trains, or amphibious ships. These forces, which normally comprise hundreds of tanks, armored vehicles, and self-propelled artillery platforms put into an integrated formation with air power and are supported by both short-range and medium-range artillery firepower, can easily break through any defensive lines. They then become major offensive strike forces, with high mobility, continuing to fulfill other tactical tasks such as occupying important towns and cities and creating defensive strongholds. These kinds of campaign often last from several days to around three months.

With that scenario in mind, the VPGF considers anti-tank warfare part of a bigger and more comprehensive asymmetric defensive plan scheme, in which using tanks versus tanks is one essential tactical component (besides others like long-rang anti-tank firepower, anti-tank mines and other man-portable anti-tank systems).

It is worth noting that this “tanks versus tanks” notion is not similar to that from the World War II era where large-scaled battle including thousands of tanks alone facing each other in a single battle (like the famous Battles of Kursk in 1943, for example). Because most of the Vietnamese tanks currently in service are old and back from the Vietnam War era, a common tactic would be relying on terrain (three-quarters of Vietnam’s topography is mountainous covered by tropical forests) to launch ambushes when enemies are maneuvering or preparing to attack. According to one estimate often cited by Vietnamese defense experts, tanks and other self-propelled artillery platforms in close-ranged combat would help cover 20 percent of all anti-tank missions in the battlefield.

Moreover, experiences from the two Gulf Wars show that tanks and other armored units have to be protected by strong anti-air regiments by either coordinating with the Air Force or by using portable anti-air missiles (the VPGF has not created its own branch of air-defense but coordinated with the Vietnam’s People Air Force to include air-defense regiments in the battle formations).

The purchase of 64 T-90 main battle tanks in two different variants serves to offset several weaknesses that have affected the VPGF’s tank force for years. For the first time in history, the VPGF will have in its service a third generation type of tank that is truly embedded with a high level of technology suitable for modern warfare. Older type of tanks, whether it be the legendary T-54/55 or the T-62 which are currently the most modern tanks in the VPGF service, were created for warfare in old era when smart weapons and precision strikes were merely the stuff of fiction fiction.

In contrast, the T-90 main battle tank possesses better firepower including night-time targeting capabilities, an upgraded fire control system, and laser rangefinder/designator allowing gunners and commanders to detect targets beyond the range of their weapons, and enhanced survivability through a triad of defense measures to stay alive in combat.

Furthermore, the credibility of T-90 main battle tanks has, to a certain degree, been proved through their performance in Syria, even though those missions are admittedly mostly concentrated on counter-insurgency rather than fighting in an asymmetrical scenario against a bigger army. All of the above-mentioned qualities are critical for a tank force trying to match the requirements of modern warfare as stipulated under the VPGF’s unique doctrine of asymmetrical warfare.

Nonetheless, there are still hurdles ahead. While a batch of 64 tanks is enough to upgrade a single tank regiment, the VPGF has a dozen of tank brigades spreading across the country. This contract reflects a cautious approach of the military in acquiring new equipment given a limited defense budget (although the price per unit is cheap compared to other types of tank from some Western countries or from Japan).

In the near future, the VPGF will still be utilizing a mixed of modern and old tanks in combat by extending the service and upgrading the old T-54/55 and T-62 tanks (there are several upgrading programs currently underway to enhance the survivability, lethality, and mobility of the old tanks). More effort will be needed to fit the new acquisition with the overall doctrine, as many parts of it have to be realized through the concrete and coherent combination of training and receiving more and more modern weapons.

In that sense, the new T-90 contract can be seen as the first step of a long but steady modernization trajectory that will have deep implications on not only the tank force but also the whole VPGF itself.

_Nguyen The Phuong is an associate researcher from the Saigon Center for International Studies (SCIS) in Vietnam._

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## TenLua

terranMarine said:


> The monkey keeps telling "China should this" "China should that", man suddenly some Viet starts telling what China has to do as if a Viet is commanding China.



Knowing is half the battle. Ima make china my bitch.


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## Viva_Viet

terranMarine said:


> View attachment 413597
> 
> 
> View attachment 413598
> 
> 
> View attachment 413599
> 
> 
> Wow VN is so brave now by obeying China's direct order


U should feel so ashamed wt your useless coast guard force. They can not stop VN small coast guard force so they need to beg for useless PLAN to threaten war.

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## Viet

YuChen said:


> However, within minutes of the speech he appeared to sow some confusion over his promise. In a question-and-answer session he said: “We haven’t yet quite decided to do that. OK?” He went on: “I don’t want you to to go out and start scanning the horizons. But they are coming, they are coming. Don’t expect them tomorrow.”


Both UK aircraft carriers are coming. As certain as China peaceful rise. A British real estate company wants to invest $6.6 billion in southern Vietnam, they need to protect their assets. Who knows when you run amok.

http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...invest--6-6b-in-resort-project.html#ui=mobile

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## Aung Zaya

*Vietnam, Myanmar boost realisation of defence cooperation MoU*
Friday, 2017-07-28 15:07:58
Font Size: | 


The meeting between Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh and Than Htut Thein, deputy head of Myanmar’s security-military general department, in Hanoi on July 28 (Photo: qdnd.vn)
Font Size: | 
NDO/VNA – Deputy Defence Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh had a meeting in Hanoi on July 28 with Than Htut Thein, Deputy Head of Myanmar’s Security-Military General Department, who is currently on a working visit to Vietnam.

Sen. Lieut. Gen. Vinh and his guest shared the view that to realise the two countries’ memorandum of understanding on bilateral defence cooperation signed in 2011, both sides need to set up a defence policy dialogue mechanism at the deputy ministerial level while enhancing ties in training, defence industry and military medicine.

They should increase coordination in humanitarian aid, the settlement of war consequences and United Nations peacekeeping operations. It is also necessary to boost the sharing of experience in border management and crime prevention and control, they said.

The officials added Vietnam and Myanmar need to further consultation and mutual support at multilateral forums, especially within the framework of the ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting and the ASEAN Defence Minister’s Meeting Plus.

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## terranMarine

Viva_Viet said:


> U should feel so ashamed wt your useless coast guard force. They can not stop VN small coast guard force so they need to beg for useless PLAN to threaten war.


yes PLAN is so useless VN immediately OBEYED

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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Both UK aircraft carriers are coming. As certain as China peaceful rise. A British real estate company wants to invest $6.6 billion in southern Vietnam, they need to protect their assets. Who knows when you run amok.
> 
> http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...invest--6-6b-in-resort-project.html#ui=mobile
> 
> View attachment 414605
> 
> View attachment 414606


When? First, put them into service and achieved IOC.

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## TenLua

terranMarine said:


> yes PLAN is so useless VN immediately OBEYED



Lol no you idiot. This was chinas plan: wait for storm, issue threat--Vietnam halt for storm, china claim credit. Its the chinese way. You're chinese, you of all people should know this tactic inside out.

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## Aqsuperman

Leave the Chinese with their wet dream. After getting owned by the UK and the Japanese so severly, they are trying hard to relive their Ancient Time when they thought they were kings. They even willing to go after every scraps of news or sights then "try to feel good"  Throw that guy back into WW2 Pacific Front and we will see how many balls he has with all the obidience and shiet 

To return to the thread, a review of the Navy arsenal and equipment 






Torpedoes for Kilo and Petya 






Kh-35 for Gepard and Molniya 






RBU 6000 anti submarine rocket for Petya 






Ak-230 for the old Osa class which is now more like a patrol vessel 






And this.............Actually i dont know what it is though. Some kind of bombs ?

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## Viet

SEAISI said:


> That's right. The vietnamese should get their brains checked based on what you just said.


It is your brain that needs a checkup. You are the one who repeats the shit over and over again with historic sovereignty. I am pretty sure modern medicine today can cure it. Let me know if you need to find a good doctor.


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## SEAISI

Viet said:


> It is your brain that needs a checkup. You are the one who repeats the shit over and over again with historic sovereignty. I am pretty sure modern medicine today can cure it. Let me know if you need to find a good doctor.



Read what I said again. Obviously you are oblivious to what I said. Medicine will not help in your case.


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## Viet

*Interior Minister: Slovakia is ready to help Vietnam with security*
Slovak security technology experts may head to Vietnam.



Robert Kaliňák and To Lam (Source: SITA)

Slovakia is prepared to send experts in security technologies to Vietnam in the following weeks, as Interior Minister Robert Kaliňák stated after meeting with the Vietnamese Minister for Public Security, To Lam, in Bratislava.

In March Slovakia and Vietnam signed an agreement of cooperation in the field of prevention and fighting against such crimes as multinational organized crime, human-trafficking, migrant smuggling, terrorism and its financing, corruption, money forging and the illegal gun trade.

Vietnam is building a technology park in Hanoi where it plans to develop and make products designated for the security services. Slovakia is ready to help the country with experts and know-how.

“We see big potential here. A common company could help the security services to supply other countries in the region with security technologies that could be interesting for Vietnam in view of export,” said Kaliňák as quoted by the TASR newswire.

The Vietnamese side has to prepare a list of which technologies and experts they are interested in. Based on this, expert groups to supervise the building of the company will be established.

The Ministry points to the fact that Vietnam is the 14th most important trade partner for Slovakia and that Slovak companies have already participated in large investment projects in the country.

During his March visit to Vietnam, Kaliňák offered his Vietnamese colleague the possibility of healing his wounded Vietnamese policemen at Slovak healthcare and rehabilitation facilities as well as training for Vietnamese security services in Lešť.


28. Jul 2017 at 6:34 | SITA, COMPILED BY SPECTATOR STAFF

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## Viet

https://www.voatiengviet.com/a/bo-t...my-osius-sau-vu-rut-gian-khoan-r/3963029.html

Từ thành phố Hồ Chí Minh, nhà báo độc lập Quang Hữu Minh nói với VOA:

“Việt Nam muốn Mỹ phản đối việc Trung Quốc áp đặt đường lưỡi bò trên Biển Đông, cụ thể là phản đối Trung Quốc đe dọa Việt Nam thực thi quyền khai thác tài nguyên trong vùng đặc quyền kinh tế (EEZ) 200 hải lý. Việc khai thác dầu của công ty Repsol nằm trong vùng EEZ của Việt Nam. Nhưng phía Mỹ im lặng.”

Nhà báo Hữu Minh cho rằng đại sứ Mỹ có một thông điệp muốn gửi cho phía Việt Nam:

“Việc ông đại sứ Osius gặp đại tướng Ngô Xuân Lịch là Mỹ muốn thông báo với Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam rằng an ninh hàng hải vẫn là tiêu chí mà Mỹ đặt lên hàng đầu. Nếu như Việt Nam và Trung Quốc có va chạm thì Mỹ sẽ có động thái để hai bên giảm thiểu căng thẳng.”


Meeting with the US ambassador Ted Osious in the army headquarters. Vietnam is apparently a bit disappointed because the US remains silent after the Chinese threaten to attack Vietnamese positions in the Spratlys. Osious reportedly says maritime security in the South China Sea is the top priority for the United States. Should the situation between Vietnam and China get out of control slipping into a military clash, the United States will move in to mitigate the tension.

Now a smart idea for Vietnam is needed in addition to have put batteries of EXTRA land attack missile in the Spratlys.

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## Nabil365

Viet said:


> https://www.voatiengviet.com/a/bo-t...my-osius-sau-vu-rut-gian-khoan-r/3963029.html
> 
> Từ thành phố Hồ Chí Minh, nhà báo độc lập Quang Hữu Minh nói với VOA:
> 
> “Việt Nam muốn Mỹ phản đối việc Trung Quốc áp đặt đường lưỡi bò trên Biển Đông, cụ thể là phản đối Trung Quốc đe dọa Việt Nam thực thi quyền khai thác tài nguyên trong vùng đặc quyền kinh tế (EEZ) 200 hải lý. Việc khai thác dầu của công ty Repsol nằm trong vùng EEZ của Việt Nam. Nhưng phía Mỹ im lặng.”
> 
> Nhà báo Hữu Minh cho rằng đại sứ Mỹ có một thông điệp muốn gửi cho phía Việt Nam:
> 
> “Việc ông đại sứ Osius gặp đại tướng Ngô Xuân Lịch là Mỹ muốn thông báo với Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam rằng an ninh hàng hải vẫn là tiêu chí mà Mỹ đặt lên hàng đầu. Nếu như Việt Nam và Trung Quốc có va chạm thì Mỹ sẽ có động thái để hai bên giảm thiểu căng thẳng.”
> 
> 
> Meeting with the US ambassador Ted Osious in the army headquarters. Vietnam is apparently a bit disappointed because the US remains silent after the Chinese threaten to attack Vietnamese positions in the Spratlys. Osious reportedly says maritime security in the South China Sea is the top priority for the United States. Should the situation between Vietnam and China get out of control slipping into a military clash, the United States will move in to mitigate the tension.
> 
> Now a smart idea for Vietnam is needed in addition to have put batteries of EXTRA land attack missile in the Spratlys.
> 
> View attachment 414951
> 
> 
> View attachment 414949
> 
> View attachment 414950







Just place this and it's enough.

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## Carlosa

*China, Vietnam: comrades until it comes to oil & gas*
*Beijing's reported threat of force against Hanoi's energy exploration in the South China Sea threatens to douse recently warming relations*
By Helen ClarkJuly 27, 2017 

http://www.atimes.com/article/china...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer





A Chinese natural gas drilling platform in the Shenhu area of the South China Sea, southeast of Zhuhai, Guangdong province, China, July 9, 2017. Picture: Reuters/Stringer

While territorial tensions are common in the South China Sea, China has never in recent years explicitly threatened to attack Vietnam for its energy prospecting activities in the disputed maritime area.

According to a July 24 BBC report, China threatened to use armed force if Vietnam did not stop its exploration of block 136-03, where Spanish oil company Repsol was jointly exploring for oil with a Vietnamese state-owned energy firm. Hanoi has since asked Repsol to leave the area.

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Carlyle Thayer, emeritus professor at the Australian Defense Force Academy and a renowned Vietnam expert, has since said he has been told several times that actual threats were an overstatement, though China had asked Vietnam to stop drilling and it complied.

The kerfuffle was not raised in the state-controlled Vietnamese press, as there as a likely gag order on reporting on the BBC story. Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs has not responded to requests for clarification on the alleged threat. Interestingly, though, there was no immediate denial from China.

China’s Foreign Affairs Ministry did say that it urged “the relevant party to cease the relevant unilateral infringing activities and with practical actions safeguard the hard-earned positive situation in the South China Sea.”

What that “hard-earned positive” situation is as open to interpretation as China’s nine-dash-line expansive map which claims most of the South China Sea as its territory and cuts deeply into Vietnam’s 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), where the 136-03 block in question sits off the country’s southern coast.





China’s nine-dash-map lays claim to nearly all of the South China Sea. Image: AFP
Though actual force was apparently not threatened, Repsol’s decision to vacate the contested area reverses the strides Vietnam has made in its oil and gas exploration in recent years.

China had previously intimidated all other multinational and state-run oil and gas companies, (save the US’s Exxon-Mobil, until recently run by US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson), out of the disputed maritime area.

What was notable then, however, was that China used a carrot and stick approach directly towards the companies, not Vietnam, by suggesting their interests in and with China might be hit if they continued to explore with Vietnam.





Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi (R) and US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson at Diaoyutai State Guesthouse on March 18, 2017 in Beijing, China. Photo: Reuters/ Lintao Zhang
China has been displeased with both Vietnam’s deal with Exxon-Mobil to develop the $10 billion Blue Whale (Ca Voi Xanh) project off central Quang Ninh province, where an estimated 150 billion cubic meter of natural gas lies, as well as with Hanoi’s recent two-year extension for exploration granted to Indian state oil company ONGC Videsh Ltd.

Though India’s chief of navy V.K Joshi suggested to Indian media in December 2012 that his forces would defend its Vietnam-given energy exploration interests in the South China Sea – a view that was not obviously shared at the time in Indian foreign policy and military circles.

India values keeping China occupied in the South China Sea to slow its expansion into the Indian Ocean and to maintain a rules-based global maritime order. But it hardly wants to open another front with China, particularly at sea, as the more strategically crucial Sikkim border dispute escalates.





A Vietnamese naval soldier stands quard at Thuyen Chai island in the Spratly archipelago in a file photo. Photo: Reuters/Quang Le
The Repsol incident has raised questions if Exxon-Mobil will be next. The US company’s interests in Vietnam would likely require American war ships to protect from a Chinese threat, a scenario that would send ripples of instability through the region despite Vietnam’s positive view of US’ commitment to freedom of navigation patrols in the area.

Tillerson, the US oil giant’s former chief executive, said during his Senate confirmation hearing last year that the US would send Beijing a “clear signal” over its island-building in the South China Sea, which strategic analysts warn could eventually shift the region’s balance of power in China’s favor.

The Donald Trump administration has not yet followed up those firm words with actions. Last weekend two Chinese fighter jets reportedly intercepted a US Navy surveillance plane over the East China Sea, with one of the jets coming within about 300 feet of the American aircraft, US officials said on Monday, according to Reuters.





A Chinese aircraft carrier in a live fire drill in a December 14, 2016 file photo. Photo: Reuters/Stringer
While Vietnam and China’s relationship is as complicated as ever, both sides have aimed to keep ties on a cordial track, seen in a constant stream of bilateral meetings and agreements. Hanoi works especially hard to state its positions clearly when incidents crop up, often publicly agreeing to disagree to diffuse delicate situations.

For its part, China has spent three years repairing charred and smoking bridges with Vietnam after the HYSY-981 oil rig incident of May 2014, when the giant exploration vessel moved into waters visible from Vietnam’s shores, a move seen then as a flagrant betrayal of friendship and ties.

Nationalistic protests in Vietnam targeted Chinese commercial interests in the country, leading to the evacuation of hundreds of Chinese nationals.





China’s HYSY-981 oil rig is seen in the South China Sea off the shore of Vietnam in this May 14, 2014 file photo. Photo: Reuters/Minh Nguyen/File Photo
China and Vietnam have a cooperative comprehensive strategic partnership, the highest echelon of ties, one cooperative notch above Hanoi’s relations with Russia and India. China is also Vietnam’s largest trade partner, a major investor (though still lagging South Korea) and an increasingly important tourism market.

In April and May this year, relations were seemingly on an upswing with various high-level meetings, including on the sidelines of the Belt and Road initiative summit in Beijing.

Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang also met Chinese leaders Le Keqiang and Xi Jinping, an occasion where Xi spoke highly of the bilateral relationship by referring to the nominally communist nations as “comrades.”





Vietnam’s President Tran Dai Quang (L) and China’s President Xi Jinping during a signing ceremony at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing on May 11, 2017. Photo: AFP/Jason Lee
China also agreed to address the two sides’ trade imbalance, where Beijing enjoys a massive and growing surplus in two-way trade estimated last year at US$100 billion last year. In January this year, China notched a US$ surplus of around US$2 billion.

A joint statement signed by Quang and Xi also agreed to better manage their maritime disputes by not taking “any actions to complicate the situation or expand the dispute and maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea.”

Still tensions have remained, witnessed in General Fan Changlong’s, Vice Chairman of China’s powerful Central Military Commission, early departure from a meeting Hanoi earlier this month. His truncated trip came two days after China deployed a rocket defense system on a Fiery Cross Reef island, part of the Spratly island chain that both sides claim.





Chinese construction on Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratly Islands. Photo: CSIS/AMTI DigitalGlobe/Handout via Reuters
Vietnam is apparently keen to keep the latest row out of the media to avoid a repeat of the anti-China protests that turned violent in mid-2014.

While Hanoi has previously allowed small groups of usually orderly activists to march to the Chinese embassy to show their polite displeasure over perceived slights, the 2014 attacks spun dangerously out of control resulting in deaths and destruction.

The timing of China’s apparent threat is delicate for Vietnam. Should China’s belligerence increase, there will likely be more spontaneous protests at a time the regime is already cracking down hard on dissent.

Bloggers critical of both the government and China have recently been handed harsh prison sentences or forced into exile. It is thus not a good time for Hanoi to allow anti-China protests that could morph into something larger.

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## Viet

Nabil365 said:


> View attachment 414988
> 
> Just place this and it's enough.


No THAAD, VN wants to acquire several batteries of S400 missile.

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## Nabil365

Viet said:


> No THAAD, VN wants to acquire several batteries of S400 missile.


Let USA operate Thaad and you operate 
s-400.

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## Viet

Nabil365 said:


> Let USA operate Thaad and you operate
> s-400.


I agree 

We need security, don't want our business to be disturbed by unwanted guests. We need oil. A lot of oil. It is better we suck in the South China Sea than import the expensive stuff from Middle East. This guy below can laugh. Roongrote Rangsiyopash, President and CEO of SCG. His company receives the goahead for Vietnam first $5.4 billion Petrochemical Complex "Long Son Petrochem (LSP)". The construction starts soon and will be complete in 4.5 years.
_




_

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## Viva_Viet

terranMarine said:


> yes PLAN is so useless VN immediately OBEYED


Just temporally halt to get more support and make sure that US-JP will not protect CN again. We just dont wanna see CN leader like Deng rush to USA and beg for help like in 1979 .


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## sahureka2

Aqsuperman said:


> Leave the Chinese with their wet dream. After getting owned by the UK and the Japanese so severly, they are trying hard to relive their Ancient Time when they thought they were kings. They even willing to go after every scraps of news or sights then "try to feel good"  Throw that guy back into WW2 Pacific Front and we will see how many balls he has with all the obidience and shiet
> 
> To return to the thread, a review of the Navy arsenal and equipment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Torpedoes for Kilo and Petya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kh-35 for Gepard and Molniya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RBU 6000 anti submarine rocket for Petya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ak-230 for the old Osa class which is now more like a patrol vessel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this.............Actually i dont know what it is though. Some kind of bombs ?



Not AK-230 + OSA class
AK-726 57mm + hydrofoil torpedo boat Turya class - project 206M Storm










in this photo




Systems used on the minesweeper

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Just temporally halt to get more support and make sure that US-JP will not protect CN again. We just dont wanna see CN leader like Deng rush to USA and beg for help like in 1979 .


Actually they sold their dignity for some dollars last time to US/JP as you said it, there is nothing more to sell. Oh except this one: PLA girl cheerleader for the Russians. Sweet but shameless.

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## terranMarine

our little biatch simply obeyed, that's good enough

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## frequency

Viet said:


> It is your brain that needs a checkup. You are the one who repeats the shit over and over again with historic sovereignty. I am pretty sure modern medicine today can cure it. Let me know if you need to find a good doctor.



I don't think there's a cure for mentally retarded people. Suicide is the only cure.



terranMarine said:


> our little biatch simply obeyed, that's good enough



You are weak.

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## SEAISI

terranMarine said:


> our little biatch simply obeyed, that's good enough



Not only did your little biatch obeyed. It also cried why the us sugar dad didn't complain.

Now that's what I call shameless without equal.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> our little biatch simply obeyed, that's good enough





SEAISI said:


> Not only did your little biatch obeyed. It also cried why the us sugar dad didn't complain.
> 
> Now that's what I call shameless without equal.


All reports base on BBC citing Vietnam stopping activity but vessels from third party countries confirm the drilling ship stays put. Neither Vietnam nor China confirm the drilling has halted.

In short besides speculation and rumor no single evidence VN stops drilling.

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## Viet

*53 years ago: the sinking of US carrier USNS Card by Vietcong commandos*

*



*

Paul Richard Huard
July 23, 2017

It was shortly after midnight when two Viet Cong commandos emerged from a sewer tunnel that emptied into Saigon Port, each man carrying nearly 90 pounds of high explosives and the components needed to make two time bombs.

Their target was the largest American ship in port, USNS Card. An escort carrier that saw distinguished service as a submarine-hunter in the North Atlantic during World War II, during the early morning hours of May 2, 1964, Card was part of U.S. Military Sealift Command.

The ship supported an escalating military commitment of the South Vietnamese government that occurred well before the Tonkin Gulf Incident. Since 1961, Card had transported both fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters to the beleaguered nation as well as the U.S. pilots and support crews need to operate them.

The commandos swam toward Card, where they spent about an hour in the water attaching the charges just above the waterline near the bilge and the engine compartment on the ship’s starboard side. They set the timers and quickly swam away.

The charges exploded. Five civilian crewmen on board Card died, the explosion tore a huge hole in the engine-room compartment and a proud ship that had survived German U-boat attacks was on her way to the bottom — the last aircraft carrier in U.S. military history to date sunk by enemy action.

The sinking of the Card was stunning victory for the Viet Cong, yet little remembered today. It illustrated how vulnerable naval vessels can be even when faced with a low-tech enemy … and how difficult maintaining port security can be in a war with no real front.

But it also demonstrated how resilient American naval forces are. In 17 days, salvage crews raised Card out of nearly 50 feet of water, and six months later the ship returned to service for another six years.

Not surprisingly, North Vietnam celebrated the sinking of Card, considering it a propaganda victory of the first rank. The U.S. government refused to even acknowledge the vessel’s sinking, telling the public the carrier had only been damaged.

The North Vietnamese government even commemorated the event by portraying the operation on a 1964 postage stamp.

Naval vessels often have a mystique about them — they look formidable, bristle with weapons and aircraft, and have the ability to project a nation’s power anywhere on the planet. In particular, aircraft carriers are the symbol of a nation possessing “great power” status.

But they are vulnerable to attack. For example, there are reasons why even aircraft carriers have numerous escort vessels — destroyers, guided-missile cruisers, even submarines — to protect a carrier as well as engage the enemy.

We shouldn’t be too surprised when an enemy takes out a naval vessel in combat, even if it is a commando with a time bomb, James Holmes, a naval historian and analyst who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College, told War Is Boring.

“We shouldn’t get carried away with thinking of warships as ‘castles of steel,’ or latter-day dreadnoughts, or whatever,” Holmes said. “A castle is a fortification whose walls can take enormous punishment, whereas most modern warships have thin sides — the nuclear-powered carrier being an honorable exception. So a guy with a charge can do a lot of damage.”

Holmes said the sinking of Card “provided a preview” of the attack on the USS Cole in 2000 — a textbook case of a low-tech assault taking out a prime example of U.S. naval might.

Al Qaeda operatives mounted a suicide attack against Cole, a guided-missile destroyer, using a small boat packed with explosives that targeted the American ship while she was docked in Aden harbor. The blast tore a huge hole in the vessel, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 — the deadliest attack on a U.S. Navy ship in recent history.

The blast from the explosion reached Cole’s galley, killing and wounding many there as sailors were lining up for lunch. Investigators later said they did not consider the timing of the attack a coincidence.

Fifty years ago, penetrating harbor security was a major concern as well for the perpetrators of the attack on Card.

Lam Son Nao, 79, the leader of the Viet Cong commandos, was a maintenance worker at the port at the time of the attack. He used his job as cover while he gathered intelligence, hid explosives and planned the mission.

Despite patrol boats filled with harbor police, Nao and his companion were able to mount their operation because of careful planning and the corruption of Saigon law enforcement.

“For the Card mission, my fellow operative and I pretended to be fishermen,” Nao said in an April 22, 2015 interview with Vietnamese News Service. “When our boat reached Nha Rong Wharf, the police chased us to the bank of the Thu Thiem Peninsula. To avoid having my boat inspected, we pushed the boat to a swamp, so that the police boat could not reach it.”

Nao told the harbor police that he wanted to shop at a market on a nearby island, offering to share part of the clothing and radios he planned to buy there. Then, he gave the police a generous bribe — and they let Nao go his way.

The aftermath of the attack on the Card rallied American rescue and salvage crews to deal with a severe crisis. The American brass and Pres. Lyndon Johnson wanted to keep the results of the attack as quiet as possible.

However, raising Card would be a major salvage operation.

Five Navy divers investigated damage to Card. One said he found the remains of a U.S.-made demolitions pack — evidence that the Viet Cong might have used stolen American military munitions.

In the meantime, the Navy sent the salvage vessel USS Reclaimer and the tug USS Tawakoni to Saigon Port to begin pumping water out of the sunken vessel. Despite poor diving conditions and numerous equipment malfunctions, salvage crews raised Card in a little more than two weeks.

Soon, both Reclaimer and Tawakoni towed Card out of Saigon harbor on their way to the U.S. Navy port of Subic Bay in the Philippines for repairs.

Naval vessels are very flexible ships capable of recuperating from serious battle damage. Apparently, Card was no exception — ships are often “re-purposed” in the U.S. Navy and enjoy long lives in service, Holmes said.

“The carrier Midway went from being a World War II carrier to a modern supercarrier over the course of her life, which reached into the 1990s,” he said. “That philosophy — deliberately build ships to allow for easy changes and upgrades over a long life — is making a comeback.”

Even Cole survived her attackers. After 14 months of repair, Cole departed dry-dock on April 19, 2002, and returned to her homeport of Norfolk, Virginia.

The ship deployed again in 2003. Cole remains in operation with the Sixth Fleet. Card decommissioned in 1970.

_This first appeared in WarIsBoring here._


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## Carlosa

*The Week Donald Trump Lost the South China Sea*
*Vietnam's capitulation shows China's neighbors fear the U.S. no longer has their backs*


BY BILL HAYTON
JULY 31, 2017
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/31/the-week-donald-trump-lost-the-south-china-sea/





Vietnam’s history is full of heroic tales of resistance to China. But this month Hanoi bent the knee to Beijing, humiliated in a contest over who controls the South China Sea, the most disputed waterway in the world. Hanoi has been looking to Washington for implicit backing to see off Beijing’s threats. At the same time, the Trump administration demonstrated that it either does not understand or sufficiently care about the interests of its friends and potential partners in Southeast Asia to protect them against China. Southeast Asian governments will conclude that the United States does not have their backs. And while Washington eats itself over Russian spies and health care debates, one of the world’s most crucial regions is slipping into Beijing’s hands.

There’s no tenser set of waters in the world than the South China Sea. For the last few years, China and its neighbors have been bluffing, threatening, cajoling, and suing for control of its resources. In June, Vietnam made an assertive move. After two and a half years of delay, it finally granted Talisman Vietnam (a subsidiary of the Spanish energy firm Repsol) permission to drill for gas at the very edge of Hanoi’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the South China Sea.

Under mainstream interpretations of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Vietnam was well within its rights to do so. Under China’s idiosyncratic interpretation, it was not. China has never even put forward a clear claim to that piece of seabed. On July 25, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang would only urge “the relevant party to cease the relevant unilateral infringing activities” — but without saying what they actually were. In the absence of official clarity, Chinese lawyers and official think tanks have suggested two main interpretations.

China may be claiming “historic rights” to this part of the sea on the grounds that it has always been part of the Chinese domain (something obviously contested by all the other South China Sea claimants, as well as neutral historians). Alternatively, it may be claiming that the Spratly Islands — the collection of islets, reefs, and rocks off the coasts of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines — are entitled as a group to their own EEZ. An international arbitration tribunal in The Hague, however, ruled these claims incompatible with UNCLOS a year ago. China has refused to recognize both the tribunal and its ruling.

In mid-June, Talisman Vietnam set out to drill a deepwater “appraisal well” in Block 136-03 on what insiders believe is a billion-dollar gas field, only 50 miles from an existing Repsol operation. The Vietnamese government knew there was a risk that China might try to interfere and sent out coast guard ships and other apparently civilian vessels to protect the drillship.

At first, China’s intervention was relatively diplomatic. The vice chairman of the Central Military Commission, Gen. Fan Changlong, visited Hanoi on June 18 and demanded an end to the drilling. When Vietnam refused, he cancelled a joint meeting on border security (the 4th Border Defense Friendly Exchange) and went home.

Reports from Hanoi (which have been confirmed by similar reports, from different sources, to the Australia-based analyst Carlyle Thayer) say that, shortly afterward, the Vietnamese ambassador in Beijing was summoned to the Chinese Foreign Ministry and told, bluntly, that unless the drilling stopped and Vietnam promised never to drill in that part of the sea ever again, China would take military action against Vietnamese bases in the South China Sea.

This is a dramatic threat, but it is not unprecedented. While researching my book on the South China Sea, I was told by a former BP executive that China had made similar threats to that company when it was operating off the coast of Vietnam in early 2007. Fu Ying, then the Chinese ambassador in London, told BP’s CEO at the time, Tony Hayward, that she could not guarantee the safety of BP employees if the company did not abandon its operations in the South China Sea. BP immediately agreed and over the following months withdrew from its offshore Vietnam operations. I asked Fu about this at a dinner in Beijing in 2014, and she replied, “I did what I did because I have great respect for BP and did not want it to get into trouble.”

Vietnam occupies around 28 outposts in the Spratly Islands. Some are established on natural islands, but many are isolated blockhouses on remote reefs. According to Thayer, 15 are simply platforms on legs: more like place markers than military installations. They would be all but impossible to defend from a serious attack. China demonstrated this with attacks on Vietnamese positions in the Paracel Islands in 1974 and in a battle over Johnson South Reef in the Spratlys in 1988. Both incidents ended with casualties for Vietnam and territorial gains for China. There are rumors, entirely unconfirmed, that there was a shooting incident near one of these platforms in June. If true, this may have been a more serious warning from Beijing to Hanoi.

Meanwhile, the drillship _Deepsea Metro I_ had found exactly what Repsol was looking for: a handsome discovery — mainly gas but with some oil. The company thought there could be more and kept on drilling. It hoped to reach the designated total depth of the well by the end of July.

Back in Hanoi, the Politburo met to discuss what to do. Low oil prices and declining production from the country’s existing offshore fields were hurting the government budget. The country needed cheap energy to fuel its economic growth and keep the Communist Party in power — but, at the same time, it was deeply dependent on trade with China.

It is all but impossible to know for sure how big decisions are made in Vietnam, but the version apparently told to Repsol was that the Politburo was deeply split. Of its 19 members, 17 favored calling China’s bluff. Only two disagreed, but they were the most influential figures at the table: the general secretary of the party, Nguyen Phu Trong, and Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich.

After two acrimonious meetings in mid-July, the decision was made: Vietnam would kowtow to Beijing and end the drilling. According to the same sources, the winning argument was that the Trump administration could not be relied upon to come to Hanoi’s assistance in the event of a confrontation with China. Reportedly, the mood was rueful. If Hillary Clinton had been sitting in the White House, Repsol executives were apparently told, she would have understood the stakes and everything would have been different.

The faith in Clinton isn’t surprising. Her interventions on behalf of the Southeast Asian claimant states, starting in Hanoi at the July 2010 meeting of the ASEAN Regional Forum, are well remembered in the region. The Barack Obama administration’s focus on the regional rules-based order was welcomed by governments fearful of domination by either the United States or China.

That said, some U.S. observers are skeptical that any other administration would have been more forthcoming. Bonnie Glaser, the director of the China Power Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, questions this apparent contrast: “What would the U.S. have done differently [under Obama]? I find it unlikely that the U.S. would militarily defend Vietnam against China. Vietnam isn’t an ally.”

Yet it wouldn’t have taken much: a statement or two about the rules-based order and the importance of abiding by UNCLOS, some coincidental naval exercises during the weeks of the drilling, perhaps even some gunnery practice in the region of Block 136-03 and a few quiet words between Washington and Beijing. “Forward-deployed diplomacy,” as it used to be called. The Obama administration warnedBeijing off the Scarborough Shoal in April 2016 this way. Has Donald Trump’s Washington forgotten the dark art of deterrence?

The implications of China’s victory are obvious. Regardless of international law, China is going to set the rules in the South China Sea. It is going to apply its own version of history, its own version of “shared” ownership, and it will dictate who can exploit which resources. If Vietnam, which has at least the beginnings of a credible naval deterrent, can be intimidated, then so can every other country in the region, not least the Philippines.

This month, Manila announced its intention to drill for the potentially huge gas field that lies under the Reed Bank in the South China Sea. The desire to exploit those reserves (before the country’s main gas field at Malampaya runs out in a few years’ time) was the main reason for the Philippines to initiate the arbitration proceedings in The Hague. The Philippines won a near total legal victory in that case, but since taking office just over a year ago, President Rodrigo Duterte has downplayed its importance. He appears to have been intimidated: preferring to appeal to China for financial aid rather than assert his country’s maritime claims.

In May, Duterte told an audience in Manila that Chinese President Xi Jinping had warned him there would be war if the Philippines tried to exploit the gas reserves that the Hague tribunal had ruled belonged to his country. Last week, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi was in the Philippine capital to discuss “joint development” of those energy resources.

Where Duterte and the Vietnamese leadership go, others will follow. Southeast Asian governments have reached one major conclusion from President Trump’s first six months: The United States is not prepared to put skin in the game. What is the point of all those freedom of navigation operations to maintain UNCLOS if, when push comes to shove, Washington does not support the countries that are on the receiving end of Chinese pressure?

Why has Washington been so inept? Secretary of State Rex Tillerson knows the stakes well. His former company ExxonMobil is also investigating a massive gas prospect in disputed waters. The “Blue Whale” field lies in Block 118, farther north and closer to Vietnam’s coast than Repsol’s discovery — but also contested by China. Like so much else, it’s a mystery whether this is a deliberate choice by the Trump White House not to get involved in the details of the disputes or if it is a reflection of the decimation of the State Department’s capabilities, with so many senior posts vacant and so many middle-ranking staff leaving.

The most worrying possibility would be that Tillerson failed to act out of the desire to see his former commercial rival, Repsol, fail so that his former employer, ExxonMobil, could obtain greater leverage in the Vietnamese energy market. But what government would ever trust Tillerson again?

Repsol is currently plugging its highly successful appraisal well with cement and preparing to sail away from a total investment of more than $300 million. Reports from the region say a Chinese seismic survey vessel, the _HYSY760_, protected by a small flotilla, is on its way to the same area to examine the prospects for itself. UNCLOS has been upended, and the rules-based order has been diminished. This wasn’t inevitable nor a _fait accompli_. If Hanoi thought Washington had its back, China could have been deterred — and the credibility of the United States in the region strengthened. Instead, Trump has left the region drifting in the direction of Beijing.

(Photo Credit: Keith Tsuji/Getty Images)

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## Viet

Ok However that is far from over, rather the beginning than the end of the game. Japan Gas today has acquired 25 percent of a Vietnamese gas company, apparently wants to establish LNG facilities in Vietnam with gas supplied by the Philippines. Lets see wether the US risks a war for the sake of the Philippines in case of Chinese onslaughts. Or how Japan will go if the Chinese go against Japanese assets overseas.

http://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/tokyo-gas-buys-stake-vietnamese-city-gas-firm

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## Viet

In cockpit of submarine hunter Airbus C295-MPA


















The airforce knows this bird as it operates C295-M transport aircraft.

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## Aqsuperman

After unification, Vietnam inherited lots of Ex - ARVN equipment and firearms. While most of them are no longer around or currently sit in museums, AR-15/M-16 rifles are still in active reserve and maintain regularly. The number of them is estimaed to be enough to completely re equippped the VPA active servcie troops several times over which would be useful for a large scale mobolization.

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## Viet

Vietnamese people's army 1955












Three more pics onboard of a C295-MPA submarine hunter. Hanoi with the Red river seen.

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## Carlosa

*Reforms are needed for Vietnam’s military*
*Defence Notes*
02nd August 2017 - 2:01 by Wendell Minnick in Taipei

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-notes/reforms-are-needed-vietnams-military/





Vietnam must begin serious modernisation and structural reform if it wants to hold its own against China’s growing control of the South China Sea and, to investigate this matter further, _Shephard_ canvassed an international cross-section of Vietnam specialists for recommendations.

To be fair, since 1975 Vietnam’s military has been in continuous modernisation, sources indicated, even if it has fallen short at times. 

However, in the past ten years the military has fixed its attention on capacity building, redefining the character of strategic relationships, improving the manner in which the services define requirements and shape procurement plans, training and education, and the structure and function of various military enterprises. 

The best example of success is Viettel, Vietnam’s largest mobile phone network operator, owned and operated by the Ministry of National Defence. Viettel has overcome tremendous obstacles to become a sophisticated telecommunications service on par with anything in the world.

Despite some success in the armed services, many believe further improvements are urgently needed. This is particularly so in the leadership structure, which Paul Giarra, president of the Washington-based Global Strategies and Transformation, called ‘totally unreconstructed.’ 

The 2016 selection of Ngo Xuan Lich as minister of national defence, ‘a political commissar with no command or operational experience…was a really uninspired choice for a military that is going through rapid modernisation,’ said Zachary Abuza, a specialist on Southeast Asia at the National War College in Washington DC. 

The choice revealed a great deal about Vietnam’s insecurities, and the debate has led to suggestions inside Hanoi’s defence circles to make the military legally bound to the state and not the communist party.

Training and education from basic to high-level officers is also a priority. This includes sending more officers and flag officers to advanced countries for military courses, especially on combined operations, said Carlyle Thayer, a professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy. 

Abuza said the ground forces still have good training, but a string of aircraft crashes in the past two years suggested that they simply do not have enough airframes or sufficient training time. This includes the navy, which has acquired more new capabilities than any other service, ‘but I am not convinced that they are training on them sufficiently,’ he said. 

Thayer added that Vietnam should initiate a broad-based programme of bilateral and multilateral military exercises with foreign counterparts to test Vietnam’s combat capabilities in priority areas such as air defence and maritime security. 

‘Develop a comprehensive whole-of-government national security and defence strategy to guide the development of service doctrines, strategies and tactics and interoperability of the services,’ Thayer advised.

Part of the training problem has to do with Russian procurements that often lack maintenance packages, and further maintenance costs are often not factored into Vietnam’s long-term defence budgeting plan, ‘especially the recent procurement of six Russian-built _Kilo_-class attack submarines,’ Abuza said. 

Though Vietnam’s military modernisation is largely centred around its relationship with Russia, in the long run Vietnamese defence officials are increasingly concerned over two aspects of the relationship, said Collin Koh, a research fellow at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore. 

First, Russia is not only supplying arms to Vietnam, but also to China. The Ukraine crisis and Western embargo only pushed Russia and China closer in the sphere of military-technical cooperation. At present, Russia remains the key arms supplier to Vietnam, and Hanoi is already getting uneasy over this, Koh said.

‘At least the ground and air forces are gradually shifting towards non-Russian sources, yet the military continues to rely more on Moscow for big-ticket items,’ he pointed out. 

Second, Russia has proven also to be a ‘capricious arms dealer’. For example, it could only promise technology transfers to Vietnam for _Gepard_-class frigates if Vietnam purchased a minimum of six vessels. Yet at the same time, Vietnam has been unhappy with the pace of construction of the Gepards. 

‘In the long run, Vietnam could do well to rely on two alternative pathways. First, non-Russian sources, especially Dutch, with whom Vietnam’s Ministry of National Defence has a close relationship via Damen. Second, indigenous, building on existing tech transfers implemented with Russia, but using that to expand its local shipbuilding capacity,’ Koh said. 

Abuza agreed. Vietnam does a really good job about licencing and indigenous production, better than any other Southeast Asian state, and this has really helped them to drive down costs, he said.

Another weakness that needs fixed is command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C4ISR). Vietnam should enhance the revolution in military affairs by ensuring interoperability of air and naval platforms in terms of C4ISR through technology transfer, coproduction and a strong national defence industry, Thayer said. 

Koh concurred, and noted that Vietnam has so far had problems augmenting its kinetic capabilities to a more robust maritime ISR capability, especially in the face of problems with China in the South China Sea. A broad-area maritime ISR represented by better maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft will be required in the long run, he said. 

Six existing Canadian-built Viking DHC-6 Twin Otter amphibious planes are modern but short-legged and low on payload when it comes to covering the massive size of the South China Sea. 

Koh recommended that Vietnam consider a variety of options, including refurbished US P-3C Orion aircraft or modified Airbus C-295 or CASA CN235 aircraft with an ISR package. ‘Ideally, the envisaged end result should be an integrated system comprising both manned and unmanned ISR systems, as well as remote-sensing, for better coverage of the South China Sea,’ he said. 

The military seems to be without a real doctrine right now, Abuza said. ‘They certainly have none for their navy and air force, and they are now two years overdue for the release of their White Paper.’ 

Koh believes that Vietnam should move towards a doctrinal shift in greater decentralisation of command and control (C2), and empowerment of junior leaders. Unlike in the past, where Hanoi could rely on a largely peasant army geared to fight guerrilla campaigns, in the context of today and the future it would expect a short, high-tech and intense war with conceivable adversaries – none other than China, he said. 

If China is gearing towards that, there is no reason for Vietnam not to follow suit. ‘The need to just emulate the Chinese goes beyond that: to compensate for Vietnam’s manpower and materiel deficiencies vis-à-vis its Chinese counterpart, it would need bold reforms in its C2 system,’ Koh said.

He added that this would mean having to make compromises in the context of its political system, where communist-style centralised, politicised control over the military still holds sway, but if Vietnam chose the status quo, it might lose the opportunity to even have asymmetry with China. 

‘There’s no way Hanoi can bridge this gap with manpower and materiel quantity – at least it could likely do better than the Chinese in decentralising its C2, and giving greater empowerment for junior military leaders,’ Koh concluded.

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## Viet

We once annihilated the one million men strong Mongolia army in three wars. Doing the same to the two million men PLA army is a much bigger challenge. True, Vietnam army needs a push in structural reform and hardware modernization. Our people had been long fooled by China peaceful rise and fake communist comradeship.

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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> We once annihilated the *one million men* strong Mongolia army in three wars. Doing the same to the two million men PLA army is a much bigger challenge. True, Vietnam army needs a push in structural reform and hardware modernization. Our people had been long fooled by China peaceful rise and fake communist comradeship.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Vietnam







In those 3 wars total strength was less than 20400, sounds very credible you southern monkeys killed over a million men. Again you have proven what kind of liars you guys are.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Vietnam
> 
> View attachment 415646
> 
> 
> In those 3 wars total strength was less than 20400, sounds very credible you southern monkeys killed over a million men. Again you have proven what kind of liars you guys are.


Haven't you no other source than wiki that can be re-edited at any time? How about you post Chinese/Yuan sources?

And can't you stop spew monkey here monkey there at any occasion? Should I recite the phrases Japanese war criminals used against Chinese ethnicity in the past war?

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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Haven't you no other source than wiki that can be re-edited at any time? How about you post Chinese/Yuan sources?
> 
> And can't you stop spew monkey here monkey there at any occasion? Should I recite the phrases Japanese war criminals used against Chinese ethnicity in the past war?



how about you show us source that you Viets killed over a million men in those 3 wars?


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> how about you show us source that you Viets killed over a million men in those 3 wars?


No you call me liar and Southern monkey, so it is you to prove first. If I called you low iq retard and northern dog then I would provide proof first.


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> No you call me liar and Southern monkey, so it is you to prove first. If I called you low iq retard then I would provide proof first.


No proof huh? As always just bragging and lying. I'm enjoying how VN OBEYED China's direct THREAT

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> No proof huh? As always just bragging and lying. I'm enjoying how VN OBEYED China's direct THREAT


So you refused to give any source apparently you have none. Ok I give you a hint.

650,000 men PLA attacked Vietnam in 1979, lost over 4,500 men per day, and how far was the most furthest point during the invasion?

Or this, I once posted here a study paper on military technology and strategy during the war during the Ming and Dai Viet period. Look back few pages in this thread. In one single battle, the 100,000 men Chinese strong army formation was encircled at a valley and nearly completely annihilated.

Chinese tactics and your former masters the Manchu and Mongols always rely on big numbers, mass of men and materials when staging aggression wars against Vietnam.

Hitler's army celebrated victory after victory and got crushed at the decisive battle of Stalingrad. The deutsche Wehrmacht had never recovered from the defeat. Chinese intimidation of threat of war can be shortlived too. Enjoy your victory as long as you can. Vietnam backs down now.


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> So you refused to give any source apparently you have none. Ok I give you a hint.
> 
> 650,000 men PLA attacked Vietnam in 1979, lost over 4,500 men per day, and how far was the most furthest point during the invasion?
> 
> Or this, I once posted here a study paper on military technology and strategy during the war during the Ming and Dai Viet period. Look back few pages in this thread. In one single battle, the 100,000 men Chinese strong army formation was encircled at a valley and nearly completely annihilated.
> 
> Chinese tactics and your former masters the Manchu and Mongols always rely on big numbers, mass of men and materials when staging aggression wars against Vietnam.
> 
> Hitler's army celebrated victory after victory and got crushed at the decisive battle of Stalingrad. The deutsche Wehrmacht had never recovered from the defeat. Chinese intimidation of threat of war can be shortlived too. Enjoy your victory as long as you can. Vietnam backs down now.



where's the source of killing > 1 million? can't back it up ?

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> where's the source of killing > 1 million? can't back it up ?


Maybe I will provide source later but NOT to you who behaves like the animal you love shouting *monkey*.


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## SEAISI

Viet said:


> Maybe I will provide source later but NOT to you who behaves like the animal you love shouting *monkey*.



>3 million vietnamese were killed during vietnam war. Hundreds of thousands more suffered the after effect of agent orange. All in one war. 

I am not bragging here, just stating a fact. Want prove? I may provide source later


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## Viet

SEAISI said:


> >3 million vietnamese were killed during vietnam war. Hundreds of thousands more suffered the after effect of agent orange. All in one war.
> 
> I am not bragging here, just stating a fact. Want prove? I may provide source later


Much less than the Japanese chopped off chinese men, raped chinese women, not to mention the numbers of casualties you killed yourselves during the glorious revolutions. But hey I give the PLA credit for burning our northern provinces to the ground and killed the last animal when withdrawing.

You staged aggression against Vietnam for nothing.

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## xiao qi

*Germany says Vietnam kidnapped asylum seeker in Berlin*

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany accused Vietnam on Wednesday of kidnapping a Vietnamese asylum seeker in Berlin and returning him to his country, where authorities suspect him of corruption.

Berlin responded by ordering a Vietnamese intelligence officer to leave Germany.

"There is no serious doubt about the participation of the Vietnamese intelligence service and embassy in the kidnapping of a Vietnamese citizen on German soil," a foreign ministry spokesman told reporters.

"So the German State Secretary summoned the ambassador from Vietnam yesterday afternoon," he said.

"The kidnapping of a Vietnamese citizen on German soil is an unprecedented .. breach of German law and international law... and has the potential to negatively affect relations massively," said the spokesman, adding it was also a breach of confidence.

He said the official representative of the Vietnamese intelligence service had been ordered to leave Germany within 48 hours and Berlin was considering further action.

The spokesman said the asylum seeker, Trinh Xuan Thanh, was a businessman believed by Vietnamese authorities to be linked to the disappearance of large sums of money from a state company.

German media reported the man had been taken from the Tiergarten, a large forested park in central Berlin, by armed men on July 23.

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN1AI1NJ

Good moving to against corruption!

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## GS Zhou

Title GCMC Ltd - Force Majeure Notice
Text 
Reference is made to the notice on 30 May 2017 in relation to the contract secured for South East Asia for *DEEPSEA METRO I*. The Company commenced operations under the contract according to estimates provided in said notice. The Company has received *notice of force majeure* under the contract. The Company is reviewing the legal implications of the notice and will provide further details of the situation once available.

For further queries, please contact:
André Nordsti, Finance Manager GCMC Ltd
+47 97108103
anno@odfjelldrilling.com

Hamilton, Bermuda
31 July 2017
Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title GCMC Ltd - Deepsea Metro I secures contract for work in South-East Asia
Text 

Further to the Letter of Intent dated 23 March 2017 Odfjell Drilling has, on behalf of Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd.,* signed a two (2) well contract* *for the ultra deepwater drillship, Deepsea Metro I* *with an undisclosed party. *The unit is owned by Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd. and managed by Odfjell Drilling.

T*he area of operation is in South-East Asia. * Deepsea Metro I has been contracted for two firm wells together with options for one (1) further well and three (3) sidetracks. The firm contract period shall be approximately 150 days with commencement expected during June 2017. 

Hamilton, Bermuda
30 May 2017
Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Latest location of the mentioned ship: Deepsea Metro I:

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## xiao qi

SEAISI said:


> >3 million vietnamese were killed during vietnam war. Hundreds of thousands more suffered the after effect of agent orange. All in one war.
> 
> I am not bragging here, just stating a fact. Want prove? I may provide source later


Don't need to prove because It is the truth. Don't forget in Asia only Vietnamese and Japanese can kick Western's ***. You want to kick them and don't want to pay the cost?


terranMarine said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Vietnam
> 
> View attachment 415646
> 
> 
> In those 3 wars total strength was less than 20400, sounds very credible you southern monkeys killed over a million men. Again you have proven what kind of liars you guys are.


This number of Mongol soldiers didn't reach to 1 million in 3 wars, I guess Because Noone knows the real number except you lived in this time. Historian ( including Chinese and Vietnamese...) tried to exaggerate their victory through giving the massive enemy. It is normal in history and don't relate to monkeys or not. Do you think Chinese always give the exact number? No, Example, when Chinese defeated Vietnamese in Ming regime, they said Vietnamese soldiers was more than 500.000 ( You can check your history, I read one time in Chinese) and ignore the truth Vietnamese was only more than 1 million people at that time. the soldier number even was bigger than Vietnamese male. In Qing regime, Chinese was defeated in Vietnam and Myanmar but Chinese's king give the fake history. So don't hurry to laugh at Vietnamese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Great_Campaigns



GS Zhou said:


> Title GCMC Ltd - Force Majeure Notice
> Text
> Reference is made to the notice on 30 May 2017 in relation to the contract secured for South East Asia for *DEEPSEA METRO I*. The Company commenced operations under the contract according to estimates provided in said notice. The Company has received *notice of force majeure* under the contract. The Company is reviewing the legal implications of the notice and will provide further details of the situation once available.
> 
> For further queries, please contact:
> André Nordsti, Finance Manager GCMC Ltd
> +47 97108103
> anno@odfjelldrilling.com
> 
> Hamilton, Bermuda
> 31 July 2017
> Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Title GCMC Ltd - Deepsea Metro I secures contract for work in South-East Asia
> Text
> 
> Further to the Letter of Intent dated 23 March 2017 Odfjell Drilling has, on behalf of Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd.,* signed a two (2) well contract* *for the ultra deepwater drillship, Deepsea Metro I* *with an undisclosed party. *The unit is owned by Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd. and managed by Odfjell Drilling.
> 
> T*he area of operation is in South-East Asia. * Deepsea Metro I has been contracted for two firm wells together with options for one (1) further well and three (3) sidetracks. The firm contract period shall be approximately 150 days with commencement expected during June 2017.
> 
> Hamilton, Bermuda
> 30 May 2017
> Golden Close Maritime Corp. Ltd.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Latest location of the mentioned ship: Deepsea Metro I:
> View attachment 415683


What happens to the oil drilling, I don't understand so much about the incident. This is Spanish company?

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## terranMarine

xiao qi said:


> This number of Mongol soldiers didn't reach to 1 million in 3 wars, I guess Because Noone knows the real number except you lived in this time. Historian ( including Chinese and Vietnamese...) tried to exaggerate their victory through giving the massive enemy. It is normal in history and don't relate to monkeys or not. Do you think Chinese always give the exact number? No, Example, when Chinese defeated Vietnamese in Ming regime, they said Vietnamese soldiers was more than 500.000 ( You can check your history, I read one time in Chinese) and ignore the truth Vietnamese was only more than 1 million people at that time. the soldier number even was bigger than Vietnamese male. In Qing regime, Chinese was defeated in Vietnam and Myanmar* but Chinese's king give the fake history.* So don't hurry to laugh at Vietnamese.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Great_Campaigns








I don't know what the Qianlong Emperor said, so if you have some proof he was lying you should post it.

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## xiao qi

terranMarine said:


> View attachment 415689
> 
> 
> I don't know what the Qianlong Emperor said, so if you have some proof he was lying you should post it.


Pls read the part of the Myanmar and Qing war. "The Qing forces maintained a heavy military presence in the border areas of Yunnan for about a decade in an attempt to wage another war while imposing a ban on inter-border trade for two decades. The Burmese were also preoccupied with another impending invasion by the Qing Empire, and kept a series of garrisons along the border. After twenty years, Burma and the Qing Empire resumed a diplomatic relationship in 1790. To the Burmese, the resumption was on equal terms. However, the Qianlong Emperor unilaterally interpreted the act as Burmese submission, and claimed victory"

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## Viet

@xiao qi 

If possible, can you post parts concerning Dai Viet in Mingshi and Yuanshi?


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## terranMarine

xiao qi said:


> Pls read the part of the Myanmar and Qing war. "The Qing forces maintained a heavy military presence in the border areas of Yunnan for about a decade in an attempt to wage another war while imposing a ban on inter-border trade for two decades. The Burmese were also preoccupied with another impending invasion by the Qing Empire, and kept a series of garrisons along the border. After twenty years, Burma and the Qing Empire resumed a diplomatic relationship in 1790. To the Burmese, the resumption was on equal terms. However, the Qianlong Emperor unilaterally interpreted the act as Burmese submission, *and claimed victory*"[5]



https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...qing-dynasty/63CA69CE98806A12469BA642B1306CF7

After checking the source, victory was added on wikipage not from the source.

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## Carlosa

AUGUST 2, 2017 / 11:21 PM
*Repsol says drilling suspended on Vietnam oil block disputed by China*

Jose Elías Rodríguez

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-vietnam-idUSKBN1AI27D

MADRID (Reuters) - Spain's Repsol said it had suspended oil drilling in a block off Vietnam, where the prospecting in South China Sea waters claimed by China had infuriated Beijing and brought Chinese pressure on Vietnam to stop.

Tension has been growing between Vietnam and China over energy development in the waterway, where extensive Chinese claims are challenged by five Southeast Asian countries and disputed by the United States.

Repsol's chief financial officer, Miguel Martinez, said work had been suspended off Vietnam, according to the transcript of a conference call with analysts last week.

"We are working with the PetroVietnam and with the Vietnamese authorities and the only comment is that right now, operations have been suspended," he said.

"We will have to see what the output is, but as mentioned $27 million is what we have spent till now in this well."

A Repsol official confirmed the suspension on Wednesday, but declined to give further details.

Drilling began in mid-June in Vietnam's Block 136/3, which is licensed to Vietnam's state oil firm, Spain's Repsol and Mubadala Development Co [MUDEV.UL] of the United Arab Emirates.

The block lies inside the U-shaped "nine-dash line" that marks the vast area that China claims in the sea and overlaps what it says are its own oil concessions.

China had urged a halt to the exploration work and a diplomatic source with direct knowledge of the situation said that the decision to suspend drilling was taken after a Vietnamese delegation visited Beijing.

"Vietnam decided it didn't want to pick a fight with China over this," the source said.

Foreign Policy magazine said this week that China had threatened military action against Vietnam if it did not stop the drilling. It said that a decision to stop was made following acrimonious meetings of a divided politburo.

Vietnam has not confirmed the suspension of drilling but last week defended its right to explore in the area.

"Vietnam's petroleum-related activities take place in the sea entirely under the sovereignty and jurisdiction of Vietnam established in accordance with international law," Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said.

"Vietnam proposes all concerned parties to respect the legitimate rights and interests of Vietnam." China claims most of the energy-rich South China Sea through which about $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims.

David Shear, a former U.S. ambassador to Vietnam and a former assistant secretary of defense for Asia and Pacific under President Barack Obama, said that he believed that as a result of the spat Vietnam had lost two oil drilling sites.

He blamed it in part on "inattention" by President Donald Trump's administration in the region.

"This is a setback for the rules-based order and for our interests," he said.

Thomson Reuters data showed the drilling ship Deepsea Metro I was in the same position on Sunday as it had been since drilling began on the block in the middle of June.

Greg Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative at the Center for Strategic and International Studies said the suspension of drilling did not mean the contract had been canceled.

"Hanoi could greenlight Repsol drilling another well nearby, but it's certainly an expensive delay," he said.

Additional reporting by Ben Blanchard in Beijing and David Brunnstrom in Washington; Writing by Matthew Tostevin, editing by David Evans


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## SEAISI

Viet said:


> Much less than the Japanese chopped off chinese men, raped chinese women, not to mention the numbers of casualties you killed yourselves during the glorious revolutions. But hey I give the PLA credit for burning our northern provinces to the ground and killed the last animal when withdrawing.
> 
> You staged aggression against Vietnam for nothing.



I guess the ultimate humiliation would be the thousand year domination of vietnam by China. Try to beat that record.

Btw, have you settled the score with US yet? After all they did kill 3million of you.

Again not trying to brag here. Just pointing out a fact


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## SEAISI

sinait said:


> Sucks, this is fast becoming a China vs Vietnam pissing contest.
> .


What pissing contest?

The viets brought up how they annihilated 1 million mongols over 3 wars to show how badass they are. No source to back it up btw. Lol 

I reminded them how 3million viets got annihilated by the us and its allies in just 1 war along with hundreds of thousands of more suffering from agent orange till this day. Plenty of sources if you want to dig further.


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## sinait

SEAISI said:


> What pissing contest?
> 
> The viets brought up how they annihilated 1 million mongols over 3 wars to show how badass they are. No source to back it up btw. Lol
> 
> I reminded them how 3million viets got annihilated by the us and its allies in just 1 war along with hundreds of thousands of more suffering from agent orange till this day. Plenty of sources if you want to dig further.


I agree with your observations, but this is their thread after all.
I say leave them alone unless they say it in some other thread.
Viet may be sarcastic at times but generally a nice guy, not like those Indians.
xiao qi even more so.

We can butt them in threads like "If Vietnam can beat China ..." or other threads.
I see no need to antagonize each other further in Vietnamese Defence Forum.
I rather you save your powder for those pesky Indians.

China and Vietnam are both friends of Singapore.
Very sad this animosity between China and Vietnam.
Chinese members also disparaged Singapore at times, but I would let it pass, not wanting to argue over minor issues that the anti China block will watch with glee. 
Anyway just a friendly suggestion.
Hope I offend nobody.
.

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## Carlosa

@The Eagle Can the moderators once and for all do their job and stop these chinese trolls from disrupting the thread?

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## GS Zhou

xiao qi said:


> What happens to the oil drilling, I don't understand so much about the incident. This is Spanish company?


This is a Norway company, who got a drilling contract in South East Asia in May this year. But this company just announced that it has to retreat its drilling ship in the region, because of "Force Majeure". And the latest location of the company's drilling ship confirms that this ship has started the journey leaving South East Asia.

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## Carlosa

*By calling the bully’s bluff in #Doklam, India has set an example for other Asian states to emulate. As usual, China barks and threatens and then backs down (as it is doing now) when confronted.*

*By refusing to buckle under China’s threats on Doklam, India has called the bully’s bluff*
August 3, 2017, 2:00 AM IST Brahma Chellaney in TOI Edit Page | Edit Page, India, World | TOI

Standing on the Himalayan crest with well-developed infrastructure, China is in a militarily advantageous position along much of the border with India. The tri-border overlooking the Chinese-held Chumbi valley is one of the few areas where India still holds a distinct advantage, with Chinese forces within Indian observation cum artillery range. If China were to capture Bhutan’s high-altitude Doklam plateau, it would not only mitigate that vulnerability but also hold a knife to India’s jugular vein – the Siliguri Corridor, through which Bhutan’s communications and transportation arteries also pass.

While existential stakes drove India to halt China’s construction of a strategic highway through Doklam, Beijing made a serious strategic miscalculation by intruding there: It anticipated Bhutan’s diplomatic protest but not India’s swift, stealthy military intervention. The Indian army had long geared up to respond to such a contingency.

No Indian government can countenance the construction of a road through Doklam that allows China to bring main battle tanks to the tri-border and implement, in the event of a war, its military plan to decapitate India. In such a corridor-bisecting scenario, while China gobbles up Arunachal Pradesh, the other northeast Indian states, as a Chinese state mouthpiece warned recently, could become “independent”.

Today, thanks to its miscalculation, China finds itself in an unenviable position: It must extricate itself from a militarily wretched situation in Doklam, where its intruding soldiers are caught in a pincer movement. If China were to initiate hostilities at the tri-border, it will likely be left, as in 1967, with a bloodied nose, given the Indian army’s terrain and tactical advantages.

Politically Beijing has boxed itself in a corner, with its intense psychological warfare (“psywar”) and disinformation operations failing to yield continuing gains, after the success in initially dominating the narrative. If anything, its psychological operations (“psy-ops”) and manipulation of legal arguments (“lawfare”), as by selectively quoting an 1890 colonial-era accord, offer India important lessons. It is standard Chinese strategy to play the victim in any conflict or dispute, as China brazenly did even in 1962.

Mounting frustration has sharpened Beijing’s war rhetoric. To compound matters, the standoff is imposing reputational costs on a power that supposedly brooks no challenge and is ever willing to wreak punishment. India, in the face of vitriolic warmongering, has defiantly stood up to China and refused to budge. By calling the bully’s bluff, India has set an example for other Asian states to emulate.

Beijing’s story that Indian troops “trespassed” into Chinese territory was designed to disguise its intrusion into tiny Bhutan. But this tale, along with President Xi Jinping’s vow not to permit the loss of “any piece” of Chinese land, deepens China’s discomfiture by undermining the image it has sought to project at home and abroad – Asia’s pre-eminent power that no neighbour will mess with.

In sum China, if it is to save face, needs India’s help to extricate itself from a mess of its own making. Beijing’s coarse statements and threats, while integral to its psywar, are also part of a negotiating ploy to secure a compromise on largely its terms.

There is no reason, however, why India should let China off the hook easily. With Xi looking ahead to this autumn’s Communist Party congress to cement his status as China’s most powerful leader since Mao Zedong, India should play psychological hardball because Chinese incursions have become increasingly recurrent.

India should allow the Doklam military stalemate to drag on until the arrival of the harsh winter forces the rival troops to retreat, thus restoring the status quo ante, including frustrating China’s road-building plan. If an earlier negotiated mutual retreat from Doklam becomes possible, it should be based on an unequivocal assurance that China henceforth will refrain from unilaterally disturbing the territorial status quo anywhere in the Himalayan borderlands.

Implicitly, if not explicitly, China must come out a significant loser in order to help rein in its creeping, covert encroachments. There should be no more Depsangs, Chumars and Doklams or the quiet chipping away at Indian and Bhutanese lands.



GS Zhou said:


> This is a Norway company, who got a drilling contract in South East Asia in May this year. But this company just announced that it has to retreat its drilling ship in the region, because of "Force Majeure". And the latest location of the company's drilling ship confirms that this ship has started the journey leaving South East Asia.



Repsol is an Spanish company.


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## GS Zhou

Carlosa said:


> Repsol is an Spanish company.


Repsol gives the drilling contract to Odfjell Drilling, who is a Norway company.

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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> Repsol gives the drilling contract to Odfjell Drilling, who is a Norway company.



That doesn't matter, they are just a subcontractor, they make no decisions on anything. Repsol makes all the decisions, they are the owners of the concession. Repsol and the Vietnamese government are the decision makers in this case.

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## GS Zhou

Carlosa said:


> That doesn't matter, they are just a subcontractor, they make no decisions on anything. Repsol makes all the decisions, they are the owners of the concession. Repsol and the Vietnamese government are the decision makers in this case.


No worries. I'm just sharing a piece of news which I feel very interesting.

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## Carlosa

*In Vietnam, it's harder for college hopefuls to become a military officer than a doctor*
*http://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/in-vietnam-it-s-harder-for-college-hopefuls-to-become-a-military-officer-than-a-doctor-3621917.html*





Vietnamese female commissioned officers march during a parade marking the country's National Day in Hanoi. Photo by Reuters/Kham

The results are in from this year's university entrance exams, and nearly 150 institutions across Vietnam have set their benchmark scores for admission, with some surprising results.

Forget medical, economics or engineering schools, it is the armed forces that are demanding the highest grades.

Vietnamese 12th graders took the national exam in June with separate tests in math, literature, English and sciences. Their total scores in three of these subjects are used to determine what school, if any, they will be accepted by.

Most schools are demanding higher scores than they did last year, which education experts blame on easier tests. Though military, medical or economics hopefuls took different batches of subjects, at least technically speaking, police and military schools are proving harder to get into.

Officials from the education ministry said that many majors at these schools are asking for a minimum total score of 29 out of 30.

The People’s Security Academy in Hanoi, which trains forces such as police officers, security agents and inspectors, is asking for up to 30.5 points (students from remote areas or who come from revolutionary families can receive up to 3.5 bonus points.)

The University of Fire Fighting and Prevention in the southern province of Dong Nai is also asking for a total score of up to 30.25.

Students vying for the Military Technical Academy and the Vietnam Military Medical University, both in Hanoi, need a score of up to 30 to secure a place.

Medical schools, usually the hardest to get into, are asking for a score of up to 29.25 this year, while economics and science institutions have set their levels between 27 and 28.5.

So why is it so appealing to get into police and military schools?

First of all, they do not charge tuition fees, and they provide meals and accommodation. This certainly makes them more attractive compared to other public schools, where a four-year course costs thousands of dollars. (The average annual income in Vietnam was $2,200 last year.)

But teacher training schools and philosophy courses are also free.

Then there’s the second reason, and possibly the more important one: Police and military students are guaranteed a job when they graduate.

All graduates will be assigned jobs at units under the Ministry of National Defense and the Ministry of Public Security when they finish their majors, receiving salaries and bonuses that add up to an average of VND5.4 million ($237.5) a month, according to a report released by the labor ministry in June.

Labor ministry figures for the first quarter of this year showed that 138,800 people with at least a university degree in Vietnam did not have a job, accounting for nearly 13 percent of the country's unemployment rate.

So while there are safety risks that come with their future jobs, students at police and military schools can study hard safe in the knowledge that they will be debt free.

Now for the dark side.

The perks of being a police or military student have led to illegal services popping up that offer places for low-scoring students - for a fee.

The providers claim to have contacts in these schools and charge desperate families tens of thousands of dollars.

In late March, a man from the southern province of Dong Thap was arrested on fraud charges after a family accused him of failing to fulfill his promise of getting their son into a police school despite paying him VND870 million ($38,300).

Another man from the central city of Da Nang was arrested in February for conning another family out of VND440 million.

In January, the Ministry of Public Security also busted an organization that had been cheating families across 26 cities and provinces, including Hanoi and Saigon, from 2014.

There are no official figures on how many students get into these schools through the back door.

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## Carlosa

*Rosneft plans to drill three more wells in Vietnam in 2018*
*http://tass.com/economy/958683*

MOSCOW, August 2. /TASS/. Rosneft's subsidiary Rosneft Vietnam plans to drill another 3 wells as part of development of Vietnam offshore projects in 2018, the oil company said.

"Two production wells will be drilled at Block 06.1 aiming at development of prospective areas of Phong Lan Dai and Lan Do fields. One exploration well will also be drilled at the adjacent Block 05-3/11 also located in Nam Kon Son basin," Rosneft said.

According to the company, combining two wells into one drilling program will cut back the duration of drilling works and allow maximizing the efficiency of exploration projects in Rosneft's Vietnamese assets.

Rosneft and PetroVietnam cooperate in Vietnamese offshore gas and condensate production and exploration project (Block 06.1) which is operated by Rosneft Vietnam B.V. (Rosneft's subsidiary). The project implementation is based on Project Sharing Contract (PSC). The PSA area comprises two gas condensate fields - Lantai and Lan Do. The fields are located at the distance of 370 km from the shore in Nam Kon Son basin, water depth in the field area is up to 190 m. Initial gas reserves of the fields amount to ca. 66 bcm.

On March 9, 2016, Rosneft Vietnam B.V. started drilling exploration well PLDD-1X in Vietnamese offshore Block 06.1. For the first time Rosneft acted as an international offshore drilling project operator, a role that confirms the Company's level of competences in complex technical programs of offshore drilling.

Rosneft and PetroVietnam also have a stake in the Nam Con Son pipeline, which transports gas and condensate from the Nam Con Son offshore basin blocks to an onshore power generation facility.

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## Viet

SEAISI said:


> What pissing contest?
> 
> The viets brought up how they annihilated 1 million mongols over 3 wars to show how badass they are. No source to back it up btw. Lol
> 
> I reminded them how 3million viets got annihilated by the us and its allies in just 1 war along with hundreds of thousands of more suffering from agent orange till this day. Plenty of sources if you want to dig further.


How about you read the wiki link which was posted here by a other Chinese clown? According to the article, the Mongol sets for the third and final assault on Vietnam everything on one card, with simultaneous attacks on land and at sea, with 500,000 men in infantry and in 500 warships.

End of the day not many of the Mongolian army returned home alive. Including the supreme commander Muslim Omar. He surrendered was captured alive. Too bad we don't have any record whether he was stripped naked and thrown to the South China Sea as delicious dish for hungry sharks. He could have told us how many Mongolian men and Chinese mercenaries paid their lives.

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## Aqsuperman

Join Area Defense between the Army and the Mobile Police. Funny thing is that while the Army still use the venerable BTR-152, the Mobile Police has got their hands on a lot of good stuff. First is the Israeli RAM-200 then the Korean Shinjeong S-5 and the most recently is the IAG Guadrian armored carrier of UAE.

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam Kidnaps Corruption Suspect in Berlin*
Domestic politics flared up into an international dispute between Vietnam and Germany.

By Anton Tsvetov 
August 03, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/vietnam-kidnaps-corruption-suspect-in-berlin/

A scene from a Cold War spy drama apparently played out in late June in Berlin.

Armed men, allegedly Vietnamese intelligence operatives, kidnapped a certain Trinh Xuan Thanh right in the well-known Tiergarten park in Germany’s capital city. Then, with the help of the Vietnamese Embassy, the man was transferred back to Vietnam, where he was put into the custody of the Ministry of Public Security. Official media later reported that Trinh Xuan Thanh surrendered himself to the police voluntarily.

The brazen operation is what the German foreign ministry publicized on August 2 as its version of what happened, while Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang denied the story and claimed that all of this simply did not happen. Thanh himself appeared on Vietnamese state TV later on August 3, saying he turned himself in. Still, the official German statement uses very strong diplomatic language — it proclaims the the Vietnamese intelligence attaché_ persona non grata_ and promises serious repercussions to Vietnam-Germany relations if Thanh is not allowed to return back to Germany.

According to German statements and media reports, Thanh’s extradition was discussed on the sidelines of the G20 Summit in Hamburg in early July 2017. Hanoi has posted an international search order for Thanh, who is accused of causing damage of around $145 million to the construction branch of the state-owned oil giant PetroVietnam. However, Berlin was unlikely to heed the Vietnamese call not only because Thanh’s application for asylum was still being processed but also because Germany does not extradite anyone facing the death penalty back at home. That could well be on the table for Thanh.

The fact that the Vietnamese went as far as to conduct a coercive operation on German soil speaks volumes as to how important Trinh Xuan Thanh is for the political situation back at home. The corruption scandal with Thanh at the center started more than a year ago and was used by the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) leadership and personally by General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong to launch a massive anti-corruption campaign. Politically, it resulted in the removal of Dinh La Thang, Ho Chi Minh city Party chief, from the Politburo – an important win for Trong over the remnants of former Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung’s patronage networks.

Trong, who retained his post after the 12th CPV Congress in January 2016, is expected to leave mid-term, i.e. in 2018. Many seem to expect his choice for a successor to be Dinh The Huynh, an old-school ideologue, but as Zach Abuza discussed in _The Diplomat_, there seems to be some opposition to that, at least on behalf of President Tran Dai Quang. Interestingly enough, just last week Vietnamese social media was abuzz discussing Huynh’s alleged absence from important Party meetings due to health issues – rumors certain to have damaged the Trong-Huynh tandem in their bid for power.

Perhaps more damaging to the incumbent leadership in Hanoi was how the latest China-Vietnam clash in the South China Sea played out. Vietnam backed down under Chinese pressure and stopped drilling on Block 136-03, within China’s nine-dash-line. As Bill Hayton reported, one version of the decision-making process in Hanoi claims that the whole Politburo was ready to call China’s bluff, but Trong and Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich opted to back down.

Though we still don’t know the whole story, it does look like the Hanoi authorities were in dire need of a quick and big win. The Trinh Xuan Thanh affair had to be brought to an end since he shouldn’t have been able to leave Vietnam in the first place.

What is really surprising is that Vietnam was ready to take this blow to its relations with Germany. The air was electrified even before Thanh’s alleged kidnapping – in late July Germany, along with several other Western states, issued a statement condemning a sentence from a Vietnamese court to opposition blogger Tran Thi Nga. Criticism like this is rarely welcome in Vietnam and remains one of the key obstacles to Hanoi’s strategy of counterbalancing China and its ambitions in the South China Sea.

It seems that this week Vietnam chose domestic power consolidation over keeping up appearances with European partners.

_Anton Tsvetov is an expert at the Center for Strategic Research, a Moscow-based think tank. He tweets on Southeast Asian affairs and Russian foreign policy at @antsvetov. The views expressed here are the author’s own and do not reflect those of CSR._


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## Viet

*Japan, Vietnam protest against China's gasfield activity, cinema in disputed seas*





Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said that it is "extremely regrettable" that China is continuing its development activity in the area.PHOTO: REUTERS
PUBLISHED
AUG 1, 2017, 8:02 PM SGT


TOKYO/HANOI (AFP, REUTERS) - Japan has lodged a protest with China over what it described as suspicious activity in a maritime area rich in gas deposits in the East China Sea, officials said Tuesday (Aug 1), while Vietnam condemned China’s construction and operation of a movie theatre on the Paracel islands in the disputed South China Sea.

China and Japan have a longstanding dispute over islands in the East China Sea controlled by Japan, which knows them as Senkaku, and claimed by China, which calls them Diaoyu.

Tokyo and Beijing agreed in June 2008 to cooperate over oil and gas resources in the area, but negotiations stopped two years later amid rising tensions and have not resumed.

"We confirmed that China is engaged in some kind of activity by stopping mobile drilling ships" near the median line separating the two countries' exclusive economic zones (EEZ) in the area, said Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga.

"It is extremely regrettable that China is unilaterally continuing its development activity," Suga, the government's top spokesman, told a press conference. Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida made similar comments.

Suga added that Japan lodged the protest late last month after noticing the activity but did not specify what exactly the Chinese ships were doing. Chinese drilling ships were last spotted near the median line in October 2016, Kyodo News and the Sankei Shimbun daily reported.

So far, China has built 16 drilling platforms on its side near the median line, the Asahi Shimbun reported.

Suga urged Beijing to resume stalled negotiations to jointly develop resources in the region, as discussed by Chinese President Xi Jinping and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in September last year.

The gas field under the joint development agreement lies in an area where both countries' EEZs overlap.

Japan says the median line between the two nations should mark the limits of their respective EEZs, but China insists the border should be drawn closer to Japan, taking into account the continental shelf and other features of the ocean.

Meanwhile in Hanoi, Vietnam's foreign ministry slammed China's cinema on the Woody Island in the Paracels, which are also claimed by Taiwan and Vietnam, as infringing Vietnam's sovereignty.

“That action by China has infringed Vietnam’s sovereignty over Hoang Sa Archipelago, violated international law and cannot alter Vietnam’s sovereignty over this archipelago,” foreign ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said, using the Vietnamese name for the islands. “Vietnam opposes it and demands that China not repeat similar actions.”

Telephone calls to the Chinese embassy in Vietnam to seek comment went unanswered. Officials of China’s foreign ministry were not immediately available for comment.

Tension between the neighbours revived in mid-June when oil drilling began in Vietnam’s Block 136/3, which is licensed to Vietnam’s state oil firm, Spain’s Repsol and Mubadala Development Co of the United Arab Emirates. The block lies inside the U-shaped “nine-dash line” that marks the vast area China claims in the sea and overlaps what it says are its own oil concessions.

China has urged Vietnam to stop the drilling while Vietnam has said countries should respect its right to drill in its waters.

China claims most of the energy-rich South China Sea through which about US$5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also have claims. China took full control of the Paracels in 1974 after a naval showdown with Vietnam.

Woody Island is the seat of what China calls Sansha city, its administrative centre for the South China Sea. Though China calls it a city, Sansha’s permanent population is no more than a few thousand, and many of the disputed islets and reefs in the sea are uninhabited.

The cinema on Sansha is equipped with the most advanced projection equipment, China’s state news agency Xinhua has said.


TOPICS:

JAPAN
CHINA
EAST CHINA SEA










Vietnam objects to China’s construction and opening of a cinema on Phu Lam island in Vietnam’s Hoang Sa (Paracel) archipelago violate Vietnam’s sovereignty over the archipelago, said Vietnamese Foreign Ministry’s Spokesperson.



The army needs more hardware. The current equipment is apparently not enough to deter aggression.

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## SEAISI

Viet said:


> End of the day not many of the Mongolian army returned home alive. Including the supreme commander Muslim Omar. He surrendered was captured alive. *Too bad we don't have any record* whether he was stripped naked and thrown to the South China Sea as delicious dish for hungry sharks. He could have told us how many Mongolian men and Chinese mercenaries paid their lives.
> 
> View attachment 415798
> 
> View attachment 415799



There we go. Just making lies to suit the narrative. Not only are you a clown, a very retarded one too.


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## GS Zhou

Miguel Martínez San Martín, CFO of Repsol, in an analyst call on July 27th, 2017:
right now, *operations have been suspended in the South China Sea. *

https://www.repsol.energy/imagenes/global/en/Transcript_Repsol_Conference_Call_2Q17_tcm14-79870.pdf


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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> Miguel Martínez San Martín, CFO of Repsol, in an analyst call on July 27th, 2017:
> right now, *operations have been suspended in the South China Sea. *
> 
> https://www.repsol.energy/imagenes/global/en/Transcript_Repsol_Conference_Call_2Q17_tcm14-79870.pdf



What's new about that? Everybody already knew that is suspended for a number of days and there had been official declarations about that.


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## GS Zhou

Carlosa said:


> What's new about that? Everybody already knew that is suspended for a number of days and there had been official declarations about that.


Oh really?

Only a few days ago, your closest friend on this forum still says there is no direct evidence that the drilling work has been stopped. And you are the only one that marks "LIKE" to this post. So I assume this is a new pieces of news that some frequent posters on this thread still don't know yet.

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## Carlosa

GS Zhou said:


> Oh really?
> 
> Only a few days ago, your closest friend on this forum still says there is no direct evidence that the drilling work has been stopped. And you are the only one that marks "LIKE" to this post. So I assume this is a new pieces of news that some frequent posters on this thread still don't know yet.
> View attachment 415956



Go see my post number 10849

You keep repeating old news


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## GS Zhou

Carlosa said:


> Go see my post number 10849
> 
> You keep repeating old news


You call an analyst call one week ago as "old news"? Ok, if this is the criteria that you make, then you better follow it in your posts on this thread in the future.

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## terranMarine

GS Zhou said:


> You call an analyst call one week ago as "old news"? Ok, if this is the criteria that you make, then you better follow it in your posts on this thread in the future.



You should read another one of his so called "accurate" analysis 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/vietnam-defence-forum.211882/page-596#post-8916016

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## Viet

SEAISI said:


> There we go. Just making lies to suit the narrative. Not only are you a clown, a very retarded one too.


what lies?

at the moment I hold a book in the hand: "Vietnam Borderless Histories" by Tuyet Tran & Anthony Reid. the book includes a chapter "Constructing Viet against the Han World" by Yu Insun. the author mentions two most well-known historians of Vietnamese history: Le van Huu and Ngo Si Lien. the first author Le compiled the book "Dai Viet su ky" in year 1272 (History of Dai Viet), while Ngo "Dai Viet su ky toan thu" (the comprehensive history of Dai Viet) in year 1479. ok I am too lazy, haven´t read the original version (Chinese) nor the translated version (Vietnamese) yet.

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## Viet

parts concerning the Mongol invasions

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> parts concerning the Mongol invasions
> 
> View attachment 416002
> 
> View attachment 416003
> 
> 
> View attachment 416004
> 
> 
> View attachment 416005
> 
> 
> View attachment 416007


From What I read about Vietnam under the Mongol, No evidence to prove the Mongol soldier number exceed 1 million. The number I think is 200k to 500k in all 3 wars. And the number 1 million only published by Vietnamese historian and I think It is the fake number like the Chinese number in the battle between Vietnamese and Qing regime. In the battle from Vietnamese source, You can search It is 290000 Chinese soldier, but the real number is 70.000- 150.000. No doubt, the number Mongol soldier is too big and giant but the number 1million,uhm I don't believe and any historian doesn't believe on that. In Vietnam, until the day people always compare the "Crowd" with the Mongol soldiers. You know Chinese and Vietnamese usually love number 9th or 10th, so don't be surprised. The reason, It is simple like in Vietnamese - Sino War, Chinese publication would decrease their number casualties and increased Vietnamese casualties. Vietnamese too. Noone knows the exact number. So the debate never ends

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## Carlosa

*Why Vietnam Must Fight the Islamic State Terror Threat*
The threat presents both challenges and opportunities that Hanoi cannot ignore. 

By Zachary Abuza
August 03, 2017

http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/why-...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

On 5 July, the Abu Sayyaf Group beheaded 2 Vietnamese seamen. Days later, another Vietnamese hostage was killed in a skirmish.

This is certainly a shock for Vietnam, but it is not unexpected. Though the kidnapping and beheading of Western hostages in front of the black flag of the Islamic State tends to garner international media attention, regional mariners have been the Abu Sayyaf’s main target since early 2016. This has important implications for Vietnam and it could also be an important opening should they decide to play a greater role in regional security.

To date, the Abu Sayyaf have executed three Vietnamese sailors and killed one more during shipboarding. They boarded two Vietnamese vessels, the first on 11 November 2016 and the second on 20 February 2017. 12 Vietnamese nationals have been taken hostage. One escaped his captors. 10 additional Vietnamese sailors were not taken hostage, but very well could have been had the Abu Sayyaf had more or larger speed boats.

The Vietnamese are not alone. Since March of 2016, the Abu Sayyaf have shifted the majority of their kidnap for ransom operations to the high seas. Between March 2016 and July 2017, the Abu Sayyaf boarded 17 ships and taken some 65 hostages from six countries, including Vietnam. In all 30 have been released, usually after a ransom was paid, seven escaped their captors, three were rescued by Philippine security forces, and four were executed. Two others were killed during the attacks, while eight seamen escaped during the shipjackings. An additional 40 seamen were not taken hostage.

The Abu Sayyaf have shifted their hostage taking to sailors and fishermen for several reasons. First, trawlers and tug-boats pulling coal barges through the waters between Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Philippines, are slow moving and easy to board. But even still, the ASG, on their fast patrol craft, have now boarded three larger ocean going vessels, including two Vietnamese-flagged ships, and unsuccessfully attempted to board two Japanese-flaggedvessels.

Second, the shipping and large fishing concerns have tended to pay the ransoms. Governments of course deny this, saying that they do not “negotiate with terrorists”, for fear that this would only incentivize hostage taking. But families, corporations, insurance companies, do not have to think about those implications. Their responsibility is to save loved ones or personnel.

Third, the waters that the Abu Sayyaf hunt in are large and contested. While Indonesia and the Philippines recently demarcated their maritime boundary, there is no agreed upon maritime boundary between the Philippines and Malaysia (owing to the dispute over Sabah), and between Malaysia and Indonesia.

Fourth, the maritime policing capabilities of Indonesia and the Philippines are weak; though stronger in Malaysia. In early July, the three states began coordinated maritime patrols. That was followed by a Malaysian Minister of Defense announcement that coordinated aerial surveillance patrols would soon be underway. With the siege of Marawi City by pro-Islamic State militants, including foreign fighters, now in its third month, controlling the maritime domain is all the more important.

What does this mean for Vietnam? The Philippine government is beset by a number of complex and interconnected insurgencies that it is not going to defeat militarily. It has neither the resources nor the will to resolve the situation in Mindanao. As such, the kidnappings will continue. The number of Vietnamese-flagged ocean-going vessels is growing rapidly. So is the number of nationals serving as seamen on foreign flagged ships. While Vietnam focuses its attention on trade with major partners, such as the United States, the European Union, and Japan, it cannot afford to neglect intra-ASEAN trade. Together, these mean that Vietnamese sailors will increasingly be at risk.

So what should the Vietnamese government do? Immediately after such killings, there is pressure on the government to pay the ransom to secure the release of the remaining eight sailors. The government has banned Vietnamese state media from covering the issue, an indication of the sensitivity of the issue, and citing ongoing negotiations. The government should resist the temptation to pay the ransom, though I would understand if the families or shipping companies did. Hanoi’s diplomats should work with the Philippine government and security forces to secure their release.

But the attack has also created an opportunity should Vietnam want to play a greater role in regional security.

Vietnam has made impressive investments in its Navy and Coast Guard. The country has plenty of water to defend and outstanding territorial disputes in the Spratly and Parcel Islands. Defending its maritime claims is their primary responsibility.

But the Vietnamese Navy and Coast Guard should now consider sending a vessel on a routine basis to help its Philippine, Malaysian, and Indonesian partners patrol the waters in the Sulu Sea. Singapore has already shown an interest in assisting. This would help in developing interoperability, confidence, and experience in working besides their counterparts. Whereas maritime cooperation is harder in the South China Sea, where territorial disputes with Malaysia and the Philippines remain, sovereignty is not at stake with counter-piracy and counter-terrorism operations. And such an operation is unlikely to incur China’s wrath.

Yes, there is a cost to this. Vietnam has limited resources. But whether it admits it or not, Vietnam has an interest in Philippine security. And even the small multilateral presence seems to have had an effect: ship-boardings are down.

More importantly, if Vietnam wants to help build up a rules-based order and contribute to maritime and regional security, this is a great and low cost way to do it. Helping to secure sea lanes of communication is important to Vietnam’s economic prosperity. A more robust maritime presence in the Sulu Sea has helped slow the number of attacks. Gaining multilateral experience will improve the professionalism of its Navy and Coast Guard. And it will sow the seeds of future multilateral maritime security cooperation that Vietnamese security ultimately depends on.

_Zachary Abuza, PhD, is a Professor at the National War College. The views expressed here are his own, and not the views of the Department of Defense or National War College. _

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> From What I read about Vietnam under the Mongol, No evidence to prove the Mongol soldier number exceed 1 million. The number I think is 200k to 500k in all 3 wars. And the number 1 million only published by Vietnamese historian and I think It is the fake number like the Chinese number in the battle between Vietnamese and Qing regime. In the battle from Vietnamese source, You can search It is 290000 Chinese soldier, but the real number is 70.000- 150.000. No doubt, the number Mongol soldier is too big and giant but the number 1million,uhm I don't believe and any historian doesn't believe on that. In Vietnam, until the day people always compare the "Crowd" with the Mongol soldiers. You know Chinese and Vietnamese usually love number 9th or 10th, so don't be surprised. The reason, It is simple like in Vietnamese - Sino War, Chinese publication would decrease their number casualties and increased Vietnamese casualties. Vietnamese too. Noone knows the exact number. So the debate never ends


Ok history is written by victor. The truth is sometimes in between. Ah a note, in regard of the Mongol Vietnam knew very well the imbalance of power. The Vietnamese people are brave but not stupid. We knew the Mongol possessed an army that was multiple times stronger, not only because they were able to defeat China. Vietnam wanted to negotiate a peace treaty, including accepting the Mongolian ruler as the new master over China. We were ready to give tributes and everything. Including submitted as vassal status. However the Mongolians refused and demanded something Vietnam couldn't accept.

The Mongolian wanted to occupy Vietnam and use it as springboard for invasion of the Kingdom of Champa (the Cham reportedly had gold en masse). invasion and physical confrontation became unavoidable when ultimatum ran out. We were prepared luring the Mongolian army deep into the mainland. The rest of the story is known.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Ok history is written by victor. The truth is sometimes in between. Ah a note, in regard of the Mongol Vietnam knew very well the imbalance of power. The Vietnamese people are brave but not stupid. We knew the Mongol possessed an army that was multiple times stronger, not at least they were unable to defeat China. Vietnam wanted to negotiate a peace treaty, including accepting the Mongolian ruler as the new master over China. We were ready to give tributes and everything. Including submitted as vassal status. However the Mongolians refused and demanded something Vietnam couldn't accept.
> 
> The Mongolian wanted to occupy Vietnam and use it as springboard for invasion of the Kingdom of Champa (the Cham reportedly had gold en masse). So a physical confrontation became unavoidable. We lured the Mongolian army deep into the mainland. The rest of the story is known.


Agree, Regardless 1 million or 500.000, The Mongol was defeated in Vietnam is unimaginable, 
that goes to show that no army is invincible

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## Viet

Tran hung Dao, supreme commander of Dai Viet army

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## Viet

Thing begins to get interesting: the first oil tanker with 2 million barrels oil is departing Kuwait for Vietnam. 5 more oil tanker with total 10 million barrels are coming.

https://www.upi.com/Kuwait-ships-first-batch-of-oil-to-refinery-in-Vietnam/1011501848361/

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## Viet

Vietnam opts for a domestic hence cheap upgrade of the old T54 tanks. Z153 factory performs the modernization program upgrading the tank to T54B.

https://vn.sputniknews.com/amp/vietnam/201708043746823-viet-nam-dang-nang-capdong-xe-tang-t54b/

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## Nike

those are Israeli guys work

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> those are Israeli guys work


Most likely yes. T54B should be just an intermediate step before going to the expensive T54M3, developed by a Israeli company.

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> those are Israeli guys work



The original article only says "foreigners", Could be Israelis, but could also be Russians, Ukranians, Belarussians, VN deals with all of them. Difficult to say.



Viet said:


> Most likely yes. T54B should be just an intermediate step before going to the expensive *T54M3*, developed by a Israeli company.



Unlikely, T54M3 was rejected because of been to expensive. VN is doing it on its own now and using a lot of domestic equipment including a domestic fire control system and night vision sensors. They had already decided to keep the 100mm gun. The upgrade that VN is doing is more like the T-54/55AM.



Viet said:


> Most likely yes. *T54B* should be just an intermediate step before going to the expensive T54M3,



T-54B is the original designation of the tank before the upgrade and it goes back to 1955. Its not known yet what the designation of the upgraded version will be.

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## Carlosa

*PLA In The Last 50 Years: Just How Strong Is The Dragon?*
Rakesh Krishnan Simha

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/-pla-in-the-last-50-years-just-how-strong-is-the-dragon

What has been the PLA’s record in warfare since the 1962 conflict with India? 

China’s threat that India would suffer a fate worse than the defeat of 1962 is laughable. For the Chinese have conveniently forgotten that since that conflict nearly 50 years ago, it is Beijing that has suffered defeats – at the hands of India, Russia and Vietnam in that order. In fact, the last time the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) faced off against the Indian Army, it had to endure the ignominy of a humiliating climb down.

But first, a reality check. The 1962 defeat happened because of two reasons. One, the Indian Army wasn’t given the weapons and divisions it had been wanting since the mid-1950s for the defence of the Himalayas. When the Chinese invaded, an entire Indian brigade (of at least 2,000 troops) was equipped with just 100 rounds of ammunition and no grenades. Prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru and his arrogant protégé, defence minister V K Krishna Menon, kept up the pretence that China would not attack.

Second, India’s armed forces were not allowed to fight to their full potential. Ignoring India’s commanders, Nehru conferred with American ambassador John Kenneth Galbraith, who advised the prime minister not to use the Indian Air Force against the Chinese intruders. Before the war, the Nehru-Menon duopoly had ended the career of Korean War hero General Thimayya – who saw the Chinese as a threat to India early. They later promoted Lt General B M Kaul and General Pran Nath Thapar. These officers did not know where the border was.

However, with the exit of both Nehru and Menon, the era of the neglect of the defence forces ended to some extent. The impressive showing of the Indian Army in the 1965 War with Pakistan restored some pride. Russian and American military supplies boosted military strength.

While evaluating the Chinese threat, the thing to note is that the India of 2017 is not the same as the India of 1962. Besides, the Chinese are not exactly known for their fighting skills. The PLA may be the world’s largest army, but it has performed atrociously in a series of major conflicts.. This article examines four of China’s post-1962 conflicts and how the PLA fared against well-armed and professional armies.

*Year: 1967*

*Opponent: India*

*Conflict: Nathu La and Cho La*

*Result: Chinese defeat*

*Casualties: PLA 340, Indian Army 65*

On 7 September 1967, a PLA commissar asked the soldiers of 18 Rajput to stop fencing the border at Nathu La – a border pass in Sikkim, which back then was an Indian protectorate. When the soldiers refused, the Chinese launched an artillery attack. Unlike in 1962, the Indian Army was prepared. It had placed howitzers at strategic locations aimed at Chinese military positions. The Indian guns launched a withering counter-attack that stopped only after three days. Indian gunners scored several direct hits on enemy bunkers, including a command post from where the Chinese operations were being directed.

On 13 September, India announced a unilateral ceasefire – a fitting reply to China’s offer almost to the week.

Smarting under their humiliation, the Chinese attacked a second time on 1 October at the nearby Cho La pass. This time it was the men of the Gorkha regiment who engaged in close-quarter combat, killing 40 elite Chinese commandos, resulting in a massive PLA rout. However, the Indian Army withheld fire on their retreating enemy. The defeated Chinese left Sikkim and withdrew three kilometres from the border. Since then, Nathu La and Cho La have been under Indian control, and China has never claimed these passes.

*Year: 1969*

*Opponent: Russia*

*Conflict: Ussuri river clash*

*Result: Chinese defeat*

*Casualties: PLA 800, Soviet Army 61*

At 4,380km, the Russia-China land border is the world’s longest. But since Tsarist times, it had been poorly demarcated, with both countries having overlapping claims over it. In the 1960s, following the ideological split between the two Communist allies, the border became a flash point with 658,000 Soviet soldiers facing a million PLA troops. In March 1969, 61 Soviet soldiers died in a Chinese ambush, and their corpses were mutilated. The Russians hit back so hard that, in the words of Robert Gates, Central Intelligence Agency director at the time, from American satellite pictures, the Chinese side of the river bank was pockmarked like a moonscape. The Chinese death toll: over 800, with thousands more injured.

The Chinese stab in the back made the Russians so angry that they seriously considered launching a nuclear attack. Washington secretly wanted someone to eliminate the Chinese for them but decided that a hostile China on Russia’s border would be good to keep Moscow on edge.

China survived, but it was so traumatised by the disproportionate Russian military response that it immediately started looking for a strategic alliance with the United States. The bottom line: the Russia-China border has remained peaceful ever since.

*Year: 1979*

*Opponent: Vietnam*

*Conflict: Full-scale Chinese invasion*

*Result: Chinese defeat*

*Casualties: PLA up to 63,000, Vietnamese army 26,000*

In 1978, the battle-hardened Peoples Army of Vietnam (PAVN) – which had only three years ago defeated the mighty Americans – launched an invasion on Cambodia. The invasion ended the genocide being committed by the US and China-backed Pol Pot regime, which had murdered two million of the country’s eight million population.

In order to “teach Hanoi a lesson”, the following year, a 200,000-strong Chinese force invaded Vietnam. (Interestingly, the invasion took place when India’s foreign minister Atal Behari Vajpayee was visiting Beijing.) In the 29-day war that ensued, the highly trained VAPN defeated the PLA, killing up to 63,000 Chinese soldiers and capturing hundreds more.

In his 1985 book, _Defending China_, Gerald Segal writes that China's 1979 war against Vietnam was a complete failure: “China failed to force a Vietnamese withdrawal from Cambodia, failed to end border clashes, failed to cast doubt on the strength of the Soviet power, failed to dispel the image of China as a paper tiger, and failed to draw the United States into an anti-Soviet coalition.”

After years of unsuccessful negotiations, a border pact was finally signed between the two countries in 1999.

*Year: 1986-87*

*Opponent: India*

*Conflict: Sumdorong Chu standoff*

*Result: Chinese pullback*

*Dead: No casualties*

The last time the India-China border came live was in 1986-87, when the cunning Chinese did a Kargil on India in Arunachal Pradesh. In 1984 and 1985, the Indian Army had set up camps in the border areas in summer and returned to the foothills in winter. When they went back in 1986, they found the PLA had crossed the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and set up a military camp in the pasture on the banks of the Sumdorong Chu river in Tawang district. Incidentally, this was close to the Thag La ridge, where the two armies had fought a bloody battle in 1962.

With the Chinese refusing to move back and “supreme leader” Deng Xiaoping declaring his intention to teach India “another lesson”, army chief General Krishnaswami Sundarji launched Operation Falcon, airlifting T-72 tanks and BMP-armoured personnel carriers to the area, occupying the high ridges overlooking the Chinese positions. It was the exact opposite of the 1962 situation when the Chinese had the higher ground. Both armies were eyeball to eyeball for seven years when in August 1995 the Chinese finally blinked. The Chinese knew if the two armies clashed, 1962 would be reversed.

*Lonesome dragon*

For decades, Beijing has pursued a strategy of boxing up India in South Asia so that New Delhi is unable to compete with it globally. According to strategist Subhash Kapila, “China is a compulsive destabiliser of South Asian regional stability and security, with the end aim of keeping India off-balance.”

China cannot attack India because India’s military is modern, large and highly professional. Plus, a war would kill the market for Chinese goods in India. Beijing will therefore continue to use Pakistan to keep India down. New Delhi’s prime objective therefore should be to weaken Pakistan by supporting independence movements in Balochistan, Sindh and Khyber Pakthunkhwa.

That, more than anything else, would demoralise the Chinese.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> The original article only says "foreigners", Could be Israelis, but could also be Russians, Ukranians, Belarussians, VN deals with all of them. Difficult to say.
> 
> 
> 
> Unlikely, T54M3 was rejected because of been to expensive. VN is doing it on its own now and using a lot of domestic equipment including a domestic fire control system and night vision sensors. They had already decided to keep the 100mm gun. The upgrade that VN is doing is more like the T-54/55AM.
> 
> 
> 
> T-54B is the original designation of the tank before the upgrade and it goes back to 1955. Its not known yet what the designation of the upgraded version will be.


Because the Chinese dropped the mask and threaten Vietnam with war, I expect everything we know till yet will be put on the table. That is a new situation. I expect we will accelerate the military buildup even at the cost of economic recovery and put the question mark behind the three no-policy. upgrading to T54M3 is expensive but I am pretty sure we will do it and more.

The army chief Ngo will visit Washington next week. If the report is true, he is one of the few that considers imminent China's attack on Vietnamese bases in the South China Sea as real and not a bluff.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Because the Chinese dropped the mask and threaten Vietnam with war, I expect everything we know till yet will be put on the table. That is a new situation. I expect we will accelerate the military buildup even at the cost of economic recovery and put the question mark behind the three no-policy. upgrading to T54M3 is expensive but I am pretty sure we will do it and more.
> 
> The army chief Ngo will visit Washington next week. If the report is true, he is one of the few that considers imminent China's attack on Vietnamese bases in the South China Sea as real and not a bluff.
> 
> View attachment 416155



I would also expect the three no-policy to go, Its no longer relevant at this point, but don't forget that it takes 2 to tango.

The problem with the T54M3 upgrade is that its too expensive and you are still left with a tank that can't face a modern MBT. Its much better to use the money to buy second hand T-72s and upgrade them to the T-72B3 standard. A T-72B3 can take on any tank. You can see them at the Russian tank biathlon. They are rocking.

The upgrade that VN is doing now on the T-54/55 is right for how the tank is been used and its cost effective. Don't forget that the way VN is using those those tanks is for infantry support, essentially they are been used as an IFV. The 100mm gun is fine for that role, no need to do more than what VN is doing now. What is needed is more T-90s (and T-72s).

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I would also expect the three no-policy to go, Its no longer relevant at this point, but don't forget that it takes 2 to tango.
> 
> The problem with the T54M3 upgrade is that its too expensive and you are still left with a tank that can't face a modern MBT. Its much better to use the money to buy second hand T-72s and upgrade them to the T-72B3 standard. A T-72B3 can take on any tank. You can see them at the Russian tank biathlon. They are rocking.
> 
> The upgrade that VN is doing now on the T-54/55 is right for how the tank is been used and its cost effective. Don't forget that the way VN is using those those tanks is for infantry support, essentially they are been used as an IFV. The 100mm gun is fine for that role, no need to do more than what VN is doing now. What is needed is more T-90s (and T-72s).


Ha ha ha surely you are right it takes 2 to tango, but if there is a beautiful girl on the dance floor, she will lure a horde of men who want to dance tango with her. Alone. The Baltic states are members of the NATO, however only delusional people believe these Baltic states would contribute valuable military assistance to the United States should America comes under attack. All studies show the Baltic armies could hold max a week against potential Russia onslaughts. So why these states are accepted in the NATO? Saying that I am not telling it is easy for VN to become a member of the military alliance.

In respect to T54/55M3 or other modernization efforts, you are right cost is one of the most important metrics to be considered. I think if we go ahead upgrade the tanks domestically, with imported necessary hardware, overall cost would reduce as we upgrade in large quantity.

We are talking of modernization of 1,000 T54/55 tanks. That is a lot. VN needs lots of T90 tanks too.

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## Chhatrapati

Vietnam is urging other Southeast Asian nations to take a stronger stand against Chinese expansionism in the South China Sea, as a tense regional security forum in Manila began yesterday with North Korea also under fire over its nuclear program.

Ahead of the launch of the annual gathering of foreign ministers from the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), Vietnam made a bold play against China with a draft of suggested changes to a planned joint communiqué.

It set the stage for what was expected to be a fiery few days of diplomacy in Manila, with the top diplomats from China, the US, Russia and North Korea set to join their ASEAN and other Asia-Pacific counterparts for security talks starting today.

The meetings would take place as the UN Security Council votes this weekend on a US-drafted resolution to toughen sanctions against North Korea to punish the isolated regime for its missile and nuclear tests.



The US said it would also seek to build united pressure on North Korea at the Manila event – known as the ASEAN Regional Forum – and Foreign Secretary Alan Peter Cayetano said Pyongyang would receive a strong message.

But on the South China Sea dispute – one of Asia’s other top powder keg issues – there was far less consensus, with Vietnam resisting efforts by the Philippines to placate Beijing, according to diplomats.

Headlines ( Article MRec ), pagematch: 1, sectionmatch: 1
Vietnam on Friday night sought to insert tough language against China in an ASEAN statement scheduled for release after the Southeast Asian ministers wrapped up their own talks yesterday.

According to a copy of a draft obtained by AFP, Vietnam lobbied for ASEAN to express serious concern over “construction” in the sea, in reference to China’s explosion of artificial island building in the disputed waters in recent years.

Vietnam also wanted ASEAN to insist in the statement that a planned code of conduct with China on the South China Sea be “legally binding,” which Beijing opposes.

The lobbying occurred when the ASEAN foreign ministers held unscheduled and informal talks late on Friday night.

“The discussions were really hard. Vietnam is on its own to have stronger language on the South China Sea. Cambodia and Philippines are not keen to reflect that,” one diplomat involved in the talks told AFP.

“The ministers endorsed the framework of the Code of Conduct for eventual adoption at the ASEAN-China Ministerial Meeting,” Foreign Affairs spokesman Robespierre Bolivar said in a press briefing.

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi is set to attend the meeting in Manila.

But Bolivar could not immediately say if there was a discussion of the framework of the COC by the ministers during their retreat yesterday or whether the discussion went smoothly.

China claims nearly all of the strategically vital sea, including waters approaching the coasts of Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei. It has in recent years expanded its presence in the sea by building artificial islands, which are capable of holding military bases.

*Vietnam takes lead*
Alongside Vietnam, the Philippines used to be the most vocal critic of Beijing’s expansionism.

But under President Duterte, Manila has sought to downplay the dispute with China in return for billions of dollars in Chinese investments and aid.

China has in recent years also successfully lobbied other ASEAN nations, particularly Cambodia and Laos, to support its diplomatic maneuvering in the dispute.

At the ASEAN opening ceremony yesterday morning, Cayetano confirmed there had been strong debates on Friday.

“You have to excuse my voice as my colleagues, we kept each other up until almost midnight last night. In the true ASEAN way we were able to passionately argue our national interests,” Cayetano said.

Various diplomats said that Vietnam was likely to lose its battle to insert the strong language against China, with the Philippines as host of the talks wielding greater influence.

But security analysts point out that the framework comes 15 years after negotiations on the issue first began, and China has used that time to cement its claims with the artificial islands.

The framework aims to “establish a rules-based framework containing a set of norms” to ensure closer cooperation among parties to avoid disputes.

It also calls for a creation of “a favorable environment for the peaceful settlement of the disputes; to ensure maritime security and safety and freedom of navigation and overflight.”

Bolivar explained that the framework could help structure the discussions and negotiations for a Code of Conduct (COC).

“When the negotiation starts then that’s where you see countries putting in the more substantive aspects of the Code. So it’s entirely possible that that issue will be discussed, will be negotiated upon as the code is being negotiated,” he said.

He said Cayetano had articulated the country’s position that a COC be a legally binding instrument.

“The Secretary has mentioned that the Philippines’ preference is for a legally binding (COC),” he added.

ASEAN and China finalized the framework for the COC in the South China Sea and endorsed by senior officials at the meeting in Guiyang, China in May.

In 2002, ASEAN and China committed to a non-binding Declaration of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) to guide claimants in their actions in the South China Sea. To prevent or reduce tensions, countries with competing maritime claims have committed to observe self-restraint.

Earlier, the US State Department said dropping the South China Sea issue from the ASEAN agenda would be unacceptable to the United States.

Susan Thornton, acting assistant secretary of state for East Asia, said on Thursday that the South China Sea should be a focus of the discussions at the security meet.

Another pressing issue in Manila will be the growing terrorism threat in the region.

The event is taking place as security forces battle Islamic State-aligned gunmen who have since May been occupying parts of Marawi, the nation’s only Islamic city. 

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2...ts-tough-stand-vs-china-philippines-reluctant

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## Viet

Despite all deficiencies I think VN is an attractive girl on the dance floor. With the times major military alliance wants VN to be part of. RoK company like Lotte participates in the $2 billion real estate project Saigon smart city.






Japan's Sumitomo Group wants to join $4 billion Hanoi smart city project. We just need more times.

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## xiao qi

*Germany warns Vietnam of consequences for 'Cold-War-style kidnapping'*
Germany says it is considering punitive measures against Vietnam over the alleged kidnapping of an oil executive turned asylum seeker in Berlin. Sigmar Gabriel described the case as the stuff of Cold War spy movies.






German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel told a news conference Friday that the alleged abduction in the German capitalwas "something that we will not…and cannot tolerate."

Germany says Vietnamese businessman Trinh Xuan Thanh was captured in July and speedily flown to Vietnam where he is facing charges of corruption and embezzlement - offenses that carry the death penalty. However, Hanoi insists the 51-year-old returned of his own volition.

Speaking in Wolfsburg, Gabriel told reporters the government was considering taking further steps against Vietnam after already ordering a Vietnamese intelligence officer based in Berlin to leave the country.

"We demanded that he leave because we strongly believe he is a person who was involved in kidnapping," Gabriel said. "Everything supports this assumption that he, with the help of the Vietnamese secret service and using his residence in the Vietnamese embassy in Germany, abducted a person who had asked for asylum."

"[Thanh] was taken out of Germany using methods which we believe one sees in thriller films about the Cold War," he added. "And this is something that we cannot accept."




Former oil executive Trinh Xuan Tanh disappeared last month in Berlin before resurfacing in Hanoi

Wanted man

Vietnamese officials had requested earlier this year that Germany extradite Thanh, who is accused of mismanagement at a subsidiary of the state-run oil giant PetroVietnam, resulting in losses of some $150 million (127 million euros). This week, Vietnamese police reported that he had handed himself in on Monday, following a 10-month manhunt.

But Thanh's lawyer in Berlin says that doesn't appear to have been the case at all. She told German newspaper Berliner Zeitung on Friday that she believed Thanh had been kidnapped and then transported via ambulance to a country in eastern Europe before being put on a plane to Vietnam. Witnesses also reported seeing armed men pushing Thanh and a female companion into a car outside the Sheraton hotel in Berlin's Tiergarten district. Both then appeared several days later in Hanoi.







Watch video02:22
*Vietnam denies Germany's kidnap claim*
Voluntary traveler?

Vietnamese state television on Thursday broadcast images of a tired-looking Thanh with tousled hair. He was quoted as saying he had returned voluntarily.

"I wasn't thinking maturely and decided to hide, and during that time, I realized I need to return to face the truth and ... admit my faults and apologize," he said in a prime-time bulletin on Vietnam Television.

The German government has accused the Vietnamese intelligence service of breaching international law, and has demanded that Thanh be allowed to fly back to Germany to claim asylum. He had been due to appear at a hearing about his asylum request on July 24 - the day after he disappeared.

Thanh was chairman of PetroVietnam Construction Joint Stock Corporation until 2013, when he was appointed to several senior government positions. He was elected to the National Assembly in May 2016, but was dismissed from the Communist-dominated legislature before its first session the following month.

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-warns-vietnam-of-consequences-for-cold-war-style-kidnapping/a-39973835

Germany should care of their problem like immigration and IS than a Vietnamese who even is not a German citizen. I realize the German intelligence is not good although they always face the terrorist situation, the foreign with weapon arrested and moved one alive man in their capital, they only knew this incident after one week when the asylum seeker in Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

Ohh would you guys just take a look at this little guy. Honestly, its look like a retard version of the Russian F.E.D.O.R but hey its a good start. A Uzi is a bit underpowered and limited magazine so we may need to reserch on how to put a PKM or NSV on it. Damn lets hope we can put a 30mm Gsh cannon on it

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Ohh would you guys just take a look at this little guy. Honestly, its look like a retard version of the Russian F.E.D.O.R but hey its a good start. A Uzi is a bit underpowered and limited magazine so we may need to reserch on how to put a PKM or NSV on it. Damn lets hope we can put a 30mm Gsh cannon on it


Sniper version. Not too bad for starter. Yes mounting higher caliber version or highspeed rattling gun on robot will be nice.



xiao qi said:


> *Germany warns Vietnam of consequences for 'Cold-War-style kidnapping'*
> Germany says it is considering punitive measures against Vietnam over the alleged kidnapping of an oil executive turned asylum seeker in Berlin. Sigmar Gabriel described the case as the stuff of Cold War spy movies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel told a news conference Friday that the alleged abduction in the German capitalwas "something that we will not…and cannot tolerate."
> 
> Germany says Vietnamese businessman Trinh Xuan Thanh was captured in July and speedily flown to Vietnam where he is facing charges of corruption and embezzlement - offenses that carry the death penalty. However, Hanoi insists the 51-year-old returned of his own volition.
> 
> Speaking in Wolfsburg, Gabriel told reporters the government was considering taking further steps against Vietnam after already ordering a Vietnamese intelligence officer based in Berlin to leave the country.
> 
> "We demanded that he leave because we strongly believe he is a person who was involved in kidnapping," Gabriel said. "Everything supports this assumption that he, with the help of the Vietnamese secret service and using his residence in the Vietnamese embassy in Germany, abducted a person who had asked for asylum."
> 
> "[Thanh] was taken out of Germany using methods which we believe one sees in thriller films about the Cold War," he added. "And this is something that we cannot accept."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former oil executive Trinh Xuan Tanh disappeared last month in Berlin before resurfacing in Hanoi
> 
> Wanted man
> 
> Vietnamese officials had requested earlier this year that Germany extradite Thanh, who is accused of mismanagement at a subsidiary of the state-run oil giant PetroVietnam, resulting in losses of some $150 million (127 million euros). This week, Vietnamese police reported that he had handed himself in on Monday, following a 10-month manhunt.
> 
> But Thanh's lawyer in Berlin says that doesn't appear to have been the case at all. She told German newspaper Berliner Zeitung on Friday that she believed Thanh had been kidnapped and then transported via ambulance to a country in eastern Europe before being put on a plane to Vietnam. Witnesses also reported seeing armed men pushing Thanh and a female companion into a car outside the Sheraton hotel in Berlin's Tiergarten district. Both then appeared several days later in Hanoi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch video02:22
> *Vietnam denies Germany's kidnap claim*
> Voluntary traveler?
> 
> Vietnamese state television on Thursday broadcast images of a tired-looking Thanh with tousled hair. He was quoted as saying he had returned voluntarily.
> 
> "I wasn't thinking maturely and decided to hide, and during that time, I realized I need to return to face the truth and ... admit my faults and apologize," he said in a prime-time bulletin on Vietnam Television.
> 
> The German government has accused the Vietnamese intelligence service of breaching international law, and has demanded that Thanh be allowed to fly back to Germany to claim asylum. He had been due to appear at a hearing about his asylum request on July 24 - the day after he disappeared.
> 
> Thanh was chairman of PetroVietnam Construction Joint Stock Corporation until 2013, when he was appointed to several senior government positions. He was elected to the National Assembly in May 2016, but was dismissed from the Communist-dominated legislature before its first session the following month.
> 
> http://www.dw.com/en/germany-warns-vietnam-of-consequences-for-cold-war-style-kidnapping/a-39973835
> 
> Germany should care of their problem like immigration and IS than a Vietnamese who even is not a German citizen. I realize the German intelligence is not good although they always face the terrorist situation, the foreign with weapon arrested and moved one alive man in their capital, they only knew this incident after one week when the asylum seeker in Vietnam.


Thing is more complicated as it may appear. much are at stakes, political and economic consequences. Germany promised 620 million euro for the next 2 years for VN, now this money can be at risk. German central intelligence can be blamed for incompetence for lots of failures, but it is due to the country political will that does not want to see a powerful intelligence. Has to do with the Nazi period. Nevertheless the Germans know Trinh Xuan Thanh has crossed the red line by threatening revealing party interna and classified government information to the public.


----------



## Viva_Viet

xiao qi said:


> *Germany warns Vietnam of consequences for 'Cold-War-style kidnapping'*
> Germany says it is considering punitive measures against Vietnam over the alleged kidnapping of an oil executive turned asylum seeker in Berlin. Sigmar Gabriel described the case as the stuff of Cold War spy movies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel told a news conference Friday that the alleged abduction in the German capitalwas "something that we will not…and cannot tolerate."
> 
> Germany says Vietnamese businessman Trinh Xuan Thanh was captured in July and speedily flown to Vietnam where he is facing charges of corruption and embezzlement - offenses that carry the death penalty. However, Hanoi insists the 51-year-old returned of his own volition.
> 
> Speaking in Wolfsburg, Gabriel told reporters the government was considering taking further steps against Vietnam after already ordering a Vietnamese intelligence officer based in Berlin to leave the country.
> 
> "We demanded that he leave because we strongly believe he is a person who was involved in kidnapping," Gabriel said. "Everything supports this assumption that he, with the help of the Vietnamese secret service and using his residence in the Vietnamese embassy in Germany, abducted a person who had asked for asylum."
> 
> "[Thanh] was taken out of Germany using methods which we believe one sees in thriller films about the Cold War," he added. "And this is something that we cannot accept."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former oil executive Trinh Xuan Tanh disappeared last month in Berlin before resurfacing in Hanoi
> 
> Wanted man
> 
> Vietnamese officials had requested earlier this year that Germany extradite Thanh, who is accused of mismanagement at a subsidiary of the state-run oil giant PetroVietnam, resulting in losses of some $150 million (127 million euros). This week, Vietnamese police reported that he had handed himself in on Monday, following a 10-month manhunt.
> 
> But Thanh's lawyer in Berlin says that doesn't appear to have been the case at all. She told German newspaper Berliner Zeitung on Friday that she believed Thanh had been kidnapped and then transported via ambulance to a country in eastern Europe before being put on a plane to Vietnam. Witnesses also reported seeing armed men pushing Thanh and a female companion into a car outside the Sheraton hotel in Berlin's Tiergarten district. Both then appeared several days later in Hanoi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watch video02:22
> *Vietnam denies Germany's kidnap claim*
> Voluntary traveler?
> 
> Vietnamese state television on Thursday broadcast images of a tired-looking Thanh with tousled hair. He was quoted as saying he had returned voluntarily.
> 
> "I wasn't thinking maturely and decided to hide, and during that time, I realized I need to return to face the truth and ... admit my faults and apologize," he said in a prime-time bulletin on Vietnam Television.
> 
> The German government has accused the Vietnamese intelligence service of breaching international law, and has demanded that Thanh be allowed to fly back to Germany to claim asylum. He had been due to appear at a hearing about his asylum request on July 24 - the day after he disappeared.
> 
> Thanh was chairman of PetroVietnam Construction Joint Stock Corporation until 2013, when he was appointed to several senior government positions. He was elected to the National Assembly in May 2016, but was dismissed from the Communist-dominated legislature before its first session the following month.
> 
> http://www.dw.com/en/germany-warns-vietnam-of-consequences-for-cold-war-style-kidnapping/a-39973835
> 
> Germany should care of their problem like immigration and IS than a Vietnamese who even is not a German citizen. I realize the German intelligence is not good although they always face the terrorist situation, the foreign with weapon arrested and moved one alive man in their capital, they only knew this incident after one week when the asylum seeker in Vietnam.


German current regime is still dirty and sick like Nazi supporting terrorist and corrupted guys to destroy another nations.

VN perfect spy just gave German a hard slap. Dirty Nazi got hit hard 







Viet said:


> Thing is more complicated as it may appear. much are at stakes, political and economic consequences. Germany promised 620 million euro for the next 2 years for VN, now this money can be at risk. German central intelligence can be blamed for incompetence for lots of failures, but it is due to the country political will that does not want to see a powerful intelligence. Has to do with the Nazi period. Nevertheless the Germans know Trinh Xuan Thanh has crossed the red line by threatening revealing party interna and classified government information to the public.


Corrupted officers make more damage to VN politic and economy. German money sending to VN throught corrupted officers only make VN falling into a bigger debt in near future.

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## AViet

Viet said:


> Sniper version. Not too bad for starter. Yes mounting higher caliber version or highspeed rattling gun on robot will be nice.
> 
> 
> Thing is more complicated as it may appear. much are at stakes, political and economic consequences. Germany promised 620 million euro for the next 2 years for VN, now this money can be at risk. German central intelligence can be blamed for incompetence for lots of failures, but it is due to the country political will that does not want to see a powerful intelligence. Has to do with the Nazi period. Nevertheless the Germans know Trinh Xuan Thanh has crossed the red line by threatening revealing party interna and classified government information to the public.



Who care about Germany in Vietnam. With dirty and stupid politic of Merkel, Germany, once respected, is going down the hell hole soon.

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## Viva_Viet

AViet said:


> Who care about Germany in Vietnam. With dirty and stupid politic of Merkel, Germany, once respected, is going down the hell hole soon.


Now, the whole world know that VN will show No mercy to corrupted guys, and the whole world also will not forget why VN spies can cheat CIA like cheating kids during Vn war

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## AViet

Viva_Viet said:


> Now, the whole world know that VN will show No mercy to corrupted guys, and the whole world also will not forget why VN spies can cheat CIA like cheating kids during Vn war



As usual, country can only respect other countries by real power, not sweet, empty words.

This swift, clean-cut action by Vietnamese police shows our capability, although few can know the details. The world can only respect us by such actions. Germany will back off soon, after blah blah something to save face.

Vietnam is not important to Germany, sure, but so is Germany to Vietnam.

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## Viet

AViet said:


> Who care about Germany in Vietnam. With dirty and stupid politic of Merkel, Germany, once respected, is going down the hell hole soon.


Germany is not going down bro don't make quick assumption. Look at the Turkey to see what happens to its economy and political standing. It is a good example for students as the Germans impose sanctions right now due to political displeasure with Erdogan. Turkey is facing uncertain future. The dream of the Turks to become a major power can be thrown into a trash can. We need a good relationship with Germany. I am not saying we bow down to everything to everyone because of money.

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## AViet

Viet said:


> Germany is not going down bro don't make quick assumption. Look at the Turkey to see what happens to its economy and political standing. It is a good example for students as the Germans impose sanctions right now due to political displeasure with Erdogan. Turkey is facing uncertain future. The dream of the Turks to become a major power can be thrown into a trash can. We need a good relationship with Germany. I am not saying we bow down to everything to everyone because of money.



Boy, I understand your feeling. But as one of my friends who work for a Germany company (ThyssenKrup) said 15 years ago, they waited patiently for Vietnam to get richer to buy German stuff. But their not-so-intelligent assumption did not understand that when China, Korean and Taiwan getting richer, quality of their machine tools are also getting better every year. Hence Vietnam now imports most our needed equipment from China, second from South Korea and third from Japan. And quality of German stuff is now going down (my own experience. And I have bad experience with their poor work ethic too, once with a division of ThyssenKrupp and once with a no-name German company. They cheated shamelessly, using "German quality/G7 quality" brand to lure unexperienced Vietnamese state-owned companies. Finally now, Vietnamese companies have learned a lot about what real "G7 quality" is. I would rather buy from the Chinese).

Regarding politics, Germany is not EU boss. Even if it was, most other EU countries would not jump on German wagon for this conflict with Vietnam.

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Now, the whole world know that VN will show No mercy to corrupted guys, and the whole world also will not forget why VN spies can cheat CIA like cheating kids during Vn war


Good side bad side by VN action we will wait. VN obviously operates a wide network of intelligence services in Europe because the action required a lot of organizations thru several countries. I don't be surprised if VN gathers intel information in the People's republic of China as well by placing our people in the CCP, the PLA and Chinese government.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Germany is not going down bro don't make quick assumption. Look at the Turkey to see what happens to its economy and political standing. It is a good example for students as the Germans impose sanctions right now due to political displeasure with Erdogan. Turkey is facing uncertain future. The dream of the Turks to become a major power can be thrown into a trash can. We need a good relationship with Germany. I am not saying we bow down to everything to everyone because of money.



For all practical purposes, Germany is the actual head of the EU. The last thing that Vietnam needs is EU economic sanctions. Kidnapping that guy was a blunder. I sure would like to see that guy in front of a firing squad (together with a few others) and I certainly don't like Merkel and her brilliant open door policies that are allowing much of Africa and the middle east to invade Europe, but all these things are unrelated to the point here, there was no need to do this, it would it have been better to assassinate the guy and that would be a good warning to others like him "you may escape, you may take a lot of money with you, but in the end, we have a bullet with your name on it".


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## AViet

Do not worry. After maximum 1 month, business will be as usual again. Vietnam will send another diplomat to Germany to replace the one who is expelled. Vietnam's stand will be higher in EU eyes as one not easy to be bullied.

Mark my word. We will come back.


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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> Do not worry. After maximum 1 month, business will be as usual again. Vietnam will send another diplomat to Germany to replace the one who is expelled. Vietnam's stand will be higher in EU eyes as one not easy to be bullied.
> 
> Mark my word. We will come back.



Ok, I'll go for that. I just want to see Vietnam in a stronger position, not weaker.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Germany is not going down bro don't make quick assumption. Look at the Turkey to see what happens to its economy and political standing. It is a good example for students as the Germans impose sanctions right now due to political displeasure with Erdogan. Turkey is facing uncertain future. The dream of the Turks to become a major power can be thrown into a trash can. We need a good relationship with Germany. I am not saying we bow down to everything to everyone because of money.


German should know that in this "kidnap" case, VN got a huge support from Eastern Europe nations, speccially Russia brother (the van after capturing Mr.Thanh drove to an Eastern Nation ).

Its also like a warning from Mr.Putin that German should make friend wt bothers from the East instead of kneeing down to US and support US's sanction to Russia. Great Soviet Union will come back to life soon and all Eastern Europe nations willing to support Soviet like the old time, just like they support VN to "kidnap" bad guy from German


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Boy, I understand your feeling. But as one of my friends who work for a Germany company (ThyssenKrup) said 15 years ago, they waited patiently for Vietnam to get richer to buy German stuff. But their not-so-intelligent assumption did not understand that when China, Korean and Taiwan getting richer, quality of their machine tools are also getting better every year. Hence Vietnam now imports most our needed equipment from China, second from South Korea and third from Japan. And quality of German stuff is now going down (my own experience. And I have bad experience with their poor work ethic too, once with a division of ThyssenKrupp and once with a no-name German company. They cheated shamelessly, using "German quality/G7 quality" brand to lure unexperienced Vietnamese state-owned companies. Finally now, Vietnamese companies have learned a lot about what real "G7 quality" is. I would rather buy from the Chinese).
> 
> Regarding politics, Germany is not EU boss. Even if it was, most other EU countries would not jump on German wagon for this conflict with Vietnam.


First. I work longer for german companies than your friend I know the Germans in and out. Yes lots of lights but lots of shadows too. Actually you have 50:50 half good people, half bad can be sent home nobody will notice. German cars are still best. ThyssenKrupps is one of the best operated companies. Good products. I would like VN Navy operates subs made by TK. German machines and tools are still one of the best. Check their export stats. Germany exports stuffs worth 1,200 billion euro in 2016.

Second. In regard to China, it is just a matter of time our trades will the kimchi people will surpass that of China. That has to do with VN economic structure, the huge presence of Korean companies. The tension with the Chinese fuels the transformation.

In the first 6 months of the year VN firms import 51 percent more from SK, while from China the number is almost stagnant.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Good side bad side by VN action we will wait. VN obviously operates a wide network of intelligence services in Europe because the action required a lot of organizations thru several countries. I don't be surprised if VN gathers intel information in the People's republic of China as well by placing our people in the CCP, the PLA and Chinese government.


Yep, VN spies are simply Perfect , CIA admit that after VN war.


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## Carlosa

Vietnam imposes a tougher line on ASEAN regarding militarization of the South China Sea and island building

*ASEAN overcomes communique impasse, urges non-militarisation in South China Sea*

*https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asean-philippines-southchinasea-state-idUSKBN1AM0IR*

South Korean Foreign Minister Kang Kyung-wha (C) links hands with ASEAN foreign ministers and their representatives as they take part in the ASEAN-Republic of Korea (ROK) Ministerial Meeting in Philippine International Convention Center in Pasay city, metro Manila, Philippines August 6, 2017.Noel Celis/Pool

MANILA (Reuters) - Southeast Asian foreign ministers ended an impasse on Sunday over how to address disputes with China in the South China Sea, issuing a communique that called for militarization to be avoided and noting concern about island-building. 

The South China Sea has long been the most divisive issue for the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), with China's influence looming large over its activities. Some countries are wary about the possible repercussions of defying Beijing by taking a stronger stand. 

ASEAN failed to issue the customary statement on Saturday, over what diplomats said was disagreement about whether to make oblique references to China's rapid expansion of its defense capabilities on artificial islands in disputed waters. 

China is sensitive to even a veiled reference by ASEAN to its seven reclaimed reefs, three of which have runways, missile batteries, radars and, according to some experts, the capability to accommodate fighter jets. 

The communique late on Sunday takes a stronger position than an earlier, unpublished draft, which was a watered-down version of one issued last year in Laos. 

The agreed text "emphasized the importance of non-militarisation and self-restraint". 

It said that after extensive discussions, concerns were voiced by some members about land reclamation "and activities in the area which have eroded trust and confidence, increased tension and may undermine peace, security and stability". 

ASEAN's deadlock over the statement highlights China's growing influence on the grouping at a time of uncertainty over the new U.S. administration's security priorities and whether it will try to keep China's maritime activities in check. 

Several ASEAN diplomats said that among the members who pushed for a communique that retained the more contentious elements was Vietnam, which has competing claims with China over the Paracel and Spratly archipelago and has had several spats with Beijing over energy concessions. 

Another diplomat, however, said there was no real disagreement on the contents of the communique and stressed that the initial draft was seen by some members as weak. 

Also on Sunday the foreign ministers of ASEAN and China adopted a negotiating framework for a code of conduct in the South China Sea, a move they hailed as progress but seen by critics as a tactic to buy China time to consolidate its maritime power. 

Reporting by Martin Petty and Manuel Mogato; Editing by Gareth Jones

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## Carlosa

*Vietnam challenges China in Asean talks*





OF TWO MINDS Foreign Secretary Alan Peter Cayetano and Vietnam Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh in a huddle during a break in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations plenary session in Manila. —POOL PHOTO

Vietnam has made a bold move against China at the annual foreign ministers’ meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) and pushed for a stronger stand against Chinese expansionism in the South China Sea.

Hanoi made its move in unscheduled and informal talks late on Friday night when it asked to insert tough language against Beijing in the usual communique that the regional bloc releases after top-level meetings.

The communique had not been released at press time, but according to a copy of a draft obtained by Agence France-Presse (AFP), Vietnam lobbied for the Asean to express “serious concern” over China’s ramped-up construction of artificial islands in the disputed waters.

Vietnam also wanted the Asean to insist in the communique that the planned code of conduct in the South China Sea among claimant-nations be legally binding, which Beijing opposed.

“The discussions were really hard. Vietnam is on its own to have stronger language on the South China Sea. Cambodia and the Philippines are not keen to reflect that,” one diplomat involved in the talks told AFP.

Alongside Vietnam, the Philippines used to be the most vocal critic of Beijing’s expansionism.

But under President Rodrigo Duterte, the Philippines has sought to downplay the dispute with China in return for billions of dollars in Chinese investments and aid.

VIDEO : China sets conditions for start of talks on sea feud code

*Diplomatic maneuvering*

China has in recent years also successfully lobbied other Asean nations, particularly Cambodia, to support its diplomatic maneuvering in the dispute.

Various diplomats said Vietnam was likely to lose its battle to insert the strong language against China, with the Philippines as host of the talks wielding greater influence.

The bloc instead released a separate statement strongly urging North Korea to comply with UN resolutions on its nuclear tests and program.

The Asean is set this weekend to adopt a framework for a code of conduct with China, which is meant to pave the way for more concrete action.

But security analysts point out that the framework comes 15 years after negotiations on the issue first began, and China has used that time to cement its claims with the artificial islands.

Hanoi made its move at the Asean meeting a day after it suspended a gas-drilling project in the South China Sea that it had earlier approved but was said to have irritated Beijing.

The project, involving a subsidiary of the Spanish energy company Repsol, started in June off the southern Vietnamese coast, analysts said.

The offshore block where the drilling was occurring straddles the border of Vietnam’s 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone but is challenged by China.

Analysts say the project’s suspension, which Repsol confirmed to Reuters on Wednesday, appears to be another strategic victory for China.

It also highlights the difficulty that Hanoi faces as it mounts challenges to Beijing’s claims to the South China Sea — without much help from its neighbors in Southeast Asia or from Washington.

Vietnam’s leaders “can try their best to deter the Chinese” in the South China Sea, said Gregory B. Poling, a fellow in the Southeast Asia program at Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

“But when the Chinese push back hard, like they just did, the Vietnamese are out on a limb all by themselves,” he said.

*Peaceful means*

In an e-mailed response to questions about the Repsol project and Vietnam’s strategic priorities in the South China Sea, Le Thi Thu Hang, a spokesperson for Vietnam’s foreign ministry, said the country supported the settlement of any disputes in the sea by peaceful means and according to international law.

“Vietnam calls on relevant parties to respect the legitimate rights and interests of Vietnam and make positive and practical contributions to peace and cooperation in the East Sea,” she said, using the Vietnamese term for the South China Sea.

Unlike the Philippines and Japan, Vietnam is not a treaty ally of the United States, meaning Washington is not legally obligated to protect it in the event of an attack.

Poling said Hanoi found itself isolated on South China Sea policy in part because it was unsure how the Trump administration would react if a conflict escalated there.

“I think it’s fair to say the Vietnamese are still not entirely confident” that the administration cares about the South China Sea the way that the Obama administration did, he said.

Vietnam’s strategic isolation worsened as the Philippines warmed to China since Mr. Duterte came to power in June 2016.

In July last year, the Philippines won a landmark case when an international tribunal ruled that Beijing’s claim to sovereignty over most of the sea had no legal basis.

Vietnam saw the ruling as a giant step toward its decadeslong goal of creating a unified diplomatic front against Chinese territorial encroachment in the South China Sea.

But Mr. Duterte appeared to undercut the victory last year by saying he favored direct talks with China over territorial disputes.

Eufracia Taylor, a political analyst based in Singapore at the British risk consultancy Verisk Maplecroft, said that while Vietnam and the Philippines were once “in the same boat” on South China Sea policy under Mr. Duterte’s predecessor, President Benigno S. Aquino III, bilateral relations had deteriorated since Mr. Duterte took office. *—Reports from AFP and New York Times*

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Yep, VN spies are simply Perfect , CIA admit that after VN war.


Germany and Japan lost the war at sea because their secret marine codes were compromised by their allies. There is the way to go for VN: cracking the code.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> *Vietnam challenges China in Asean talks*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OF TWO MINDS Foreign Secretary Alan Peter Cayetano and Vietnam Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh in a huddle during a break in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations plenary session in Manila. —POOL PHOTO
> 
> Vietnam has made a bold move against China at the annual foreign ministers’ meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) and pushed for a stronger stand against Chinese expansionism in the South China Sea.
> 
> Hanoi made its move in unscheduled and informal talks late on Friday night when it asked to insert tough language against Beijing in the usual communique that the regional bloc releases after top-level meetings.
> 
> The communique had not been released at press time, but according to a copy of a draft obtained by Agence France-Presse (AFP), Vietnam lobbied for the Asean to express “serious concern” over China’s ramped-up construction of artificial islands in the disputed waters.
> 
> Vietnam also wanted the Asean to insist in the communique that the planned code of conduct in the South China Sea among claimant-nations be legally binding, which Beijing opposed.
> 
> “The discussions were really hard. Vietnam is on its own to have stronger language on the South China Sea. Cambodia and the Philippines are not keen to reflect that,” one diplomat involved in the talks told AFP.
> 
> Alongside Vietnam, the Philippines used to be the most vocal critic of Beijing’s expansionism.
> 
> But under President Rodrigo Duterte, the Philippines has sought to downplay the dispute with China in return for billions of dollars in Chinese investments and aid.
> 
> VIDEO : China sets conditions for start of talks on sea feud code
> 
> *Diplomatic maneuvering*
> 
> China has in recent years also successfully lobbied other Asean nations, particularly Cambodia, to support its diplomatic maneuvering in the dispute.
> 
> Various diplomats said Vietnam was likely to lose its battle to insert the strong language against China, with the Philippines as host of the talks wielding greater influence.
> 
> The bloc instead released a separate statement strongly urging North Korea to comply with UN resolutions on its nuclear tests and program.
> 
> The Asean is set this weekend to adopt a framework for a code of conduct with China, which is meant to pave the way for more concrete action.
> 
> But security analysts point out that the framework comes 15 years after negotiations on the issue first began, and China has used that time to cement its claims with the artificial islands.
> 
> Hanoi made its move at the Asean meeting a day after it suspended a gas-drilling project in the South China Sea that it had earlier approved but was said to have irritated Beijing.
> 
> The project, involving a subsidiary of the Spanish energy company Repsol, started in June off the southern Vietnamese coast, analysts said.
> 
> The offshore block where the drilling was occurring straddles the border of Vietnam’s 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone but is challenged by China.
> 
> Analysts say the project’s suspension, which Repsol confirmed to Reuters on Wednesday, appears to be another strategic victory for China.
> 
> It also highlights the difficulty that Hanoi faces as it mounts challenges to Beijing’s claims to the South China Sea — without much help from its neighbors in Southeast Asia or from Washington.
> 
> Vietnam’s leaders “can try their best to deter the Chinese” in the South China Sea, said Gregory B. Poling, a fellow in the Southeast Asia program at Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.
> 
> “But when the Chinese push back hard, like they just did, the Vietnamese are out on a limb all by themselves,” he said.
> 
> *Peaceful means*
> 
> In an e-mailed response to questions about the Repsol project and Vietnam’s strategic priorities in the South China Sea, Le Thi Thu Hang, a spokesperson for Vietnam’s foreign ministry, said the country supported the settlement of any disputes in the sea by peaceful means and according to international law.
> 
> “Vietnam calls on relevant parties to respect the legitimate rights and interests of Vietnam and make positive and practical contributions to peace and cooperation in the East Sea,” she said, using the Vietnamese term for the South China Sea.
> 
> Unlike the Philippines and Japan, Vietnam is not a treaty ally of the United States, meaning Washington is not legally obligated to protect it in the event of an attack.
> 
> Poling said Hanoi found itself isolated on South China Sea policy in part because it was unsure how the Trump administration would react if a conflict escalated there.
> 
> “I think it’s fair to say the Vietnamese are still not entirely confident” that the administration cares about the South China Sea the way that the Obama administration did, he said.
> 
> Vietnam’s strategic isolation worsened as the Philippines warmed to China since Mr. Duterte came to power in June 2016.
> 
> In July last year, the Philippines won a landmark case when an international tribunal ruled that Beijing’s claim to sovereignty over most of the sea had no legal basis.
> 
> Vietnam saw the ruling as a giant step toward its decadeslong goal of creating a unified diplomatic front against Chinese territorial encroachment in the South China Sea.
> 
> But Mr. Duterte appeared to undercut the victory last year by saying he favored direct talks with China over territorial disputes.
> 
> Eufracia Taylor, a political analyst based in Singapore at the British risk consultancy Verisk Maplecroft, said that while Vietnam and the Philippines were once “in the same boat” on South China Sea policy under Mr. Duterte’s predecessor, President Benigno S. Aquino III, bilateral relations had deteriorated since Mr. Duterte took office. *—Reports from AFP and New York Times*


Like I said, Vietnamese are stubborn and not easy to be defeated

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## Viet

The army should develop a robot version with mounted antitank RPG29.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Like I said, Vietnamese are stubborn and not easy to be defeated



Well said sister Xiao and here are some more news:

*China Cancels Vietnam Meeting Over South China Sea Spat*
More stories by Keith ZhaiAugust 7, 2017, 4:13 PM GMT+7

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...cel-vietnam-meeting-over-south-china-sea-spat

China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi canceled a scheduled one-on-one meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart in Manila at the last minute on Monday due to a spat over the South China Sea, according to people familiar with the situation.

China was upset over the wording of a communique released by foreign ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations on Sunday night that expressed concern over land reclamation on disputed islands, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because the information isn’t public. China saw Vietnam as pushing for that language to be included in the statement, they said.

The statement said that some of Asean’s 10 foreign ministers expressed concern “on the land reclamations and activities in the area, which have eroded trust and confidence, increased tensions and may undermine peace, security and stability in the region.” Vietnam Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh is among top diplomats from more than 20 countries attending meetings in Manila this week.

A spokesman with the Chinese delegation suggested that the one-on-one meeting wasn’t the only opportunity where the ministers could’ve had discussions. The two both participated in other multilateral meetings in Manila, including one between China and the 10 Asean ministers.

*Rising Tensions*
“The two have already met,” said the spokesman, without making further comment. Vietnam’s foreign ministry didn’t immediately respond to faxed questions about the meeting.

Tensions between China and Vietnam have increased in recent months over disputed territory in areas of the South China Sea that are rich in oil and gas. In June, a Spanish oil company reportedly stopped drilling off of Vietnam’s coast after threats from China.

China’s efforts to assert its dominance over the South China Sea, one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes that carries more than $5 trillion in annual trade, have in the past angered Southeast Asian nations with competing claims such as Vietnam and the Philippines. The waterway has become a flash-point in a broader tussle for regional influence between China and the U.S. in Asia.

China has used land reclamation to build up islands and construct airports to back its claim of much of the waters off its coast. In 2016, an international court rejected China’s bid to secure rights to more than 80 percent of the South China Sea.

The BBC reported last month that Vietnam had ordered Repsol SA, a Madrid-based oil-and-gas company, to halt activities in the South China Sea after China threatened to attack Vietnamese bases in the Spratly Islands. The company confirmed last week that it had suspended drilling in Vietnam, without providing further details.

In a July 29 statement, Vietnam asked parties to respect its petroleum rights in the South China Sea. Asked whether China had ever pressured Vietnam to stop drilling, foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang said that China has indisputable sovereignty over the Spratly Islands and urged against unilateral actions in the area.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well said sister Xiao and here are some more news:
> 
> *China Cancels Vietnam Meeting Over South China Sea Spat*
> More stories by Keith ZhaiAugust 7, 2017, 4:13 PM GMT+7
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...cel-vietnam-meeting-over-south-china-sea-spat
> 
> China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi canceled a scheduled one-on-one meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart in Manila at the last minute on Monday due to a spat over the South China Sea, according to people familiar with the situation.
> 
> China was upset over the wording of a communique released by foreign ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations on Sunday night that expressed concern over land reclamation on disputed islands, according to the people, who asked not to be identified because the information isn’t public. China saw Vietnam as pushing for that language to be included in the statement, they said.
> 
> The statement said that some of Asean’s 10 foreign ministers expressed concern “on the land reclamations and activities in the area, which have eroded trust and confidence, increased tensions and may undermine peace, security and stability in the region.” Vietnam Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh is among top diplomats from more than 20 countries attending meetings in Manila this week.
> 
> A spokesman with the Chinese delegation suggested that the one-on-one meeting wasn’t the only opportunity where the ministers could’ve had discussions. The two both participated in other multilateral meetings in Manila, including one between China and the 10 Asean ministers.
> 
> *Rising Tensions*
> “The two have already met,” said the spokesman, without making further comment. Vietnam’s foreign ministry didn’t immediately respond to faxed questions about the meeting.
> 
> Tensions between China and Vietnam have increased in recent months over disputed territory in areas of the South China Sea that are rich in oil and gas. In June, a Spanish oil company reportedly stopped drilling off of Vietnam’s coast after threats from China.
> 
> China’s efforts to assert its dominance over the South China Sea, one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes that carries more than $5 trillion in annual trade, have in the past angered Southeast Asian nations with competing claims such as Vietnam and the Philippines. The waterway has become a flash-point in a broader tussle for regional influence between China and the U.S. in Asia.
> 
> China has used land reclamation to build up islands and construct airports to back its claim of much of the waters off its coast. In 2016, an international court rejected China’s bid to secure rights to more than 80 percent of the South China Sea.
> 
> The BBC reported last month that Vietnam had ordered Repsol SA, a Madrid-based oil-and-gas company, to halt activities in the South China Sea after China threatened to attack Vietnamese bases in the Spratly Islands. The company confirmed last week that it had suspended drilling in Vietnam, without providing further details.
> 
> In a July 29 statement, Vietnam asked parties to respect its petroleum rights in the South China Sea. Asked whether China had ever pressured Vietnam to stop drilling, foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang said that China has indisputable sovereignty over the Spratly Islands and urged against unilateral actions in the area.


obviously there is nothing more to talk nor discuss. everything is said.

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## Carlosa

*Beijing sets conditions for new South China Sea code of conduct- Nikkei Asian Review*
*https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Ec...tions-for-new-South-China-Sea-code-of-conduct
*
MANILA -- The Association of Southeast Asian Nations and China may start actual negotiations in November on a code of conduct to help resolve complex territorial disputes in the South China Sea -- provided that the situation is calm and "outside parties" stop interfering, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said here on Sunday.

"When the situation in the South China Sea is generally stable, and if there is no major disruption from outside parties as the precondition, then we will consider during the November leaders' meeting -- we will jointly announce -- the official start of the COC conversation," Wang told reporters after meeting with his ASEAN counterparts.

Using its unilateral "nine-dash line," China has laid claim to almost the entire South China Sea, including areas ASEAN members Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam claim as parts of their respective exclusive economic zones. Taiwan also has conflicting maritime claims with China.

Wang's conditions continue to bring into question China's commitment to formulating a long-awaited effective code of conduct. ASEAN diplomats have previously accused China of stalling a process already embodied in the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

Ministers from ASEAN and China have agreed to a framework for establishing a code of conduct. Robespierre Bolivar, a Philippine foreign ministry spokesperson, confirmed that ASEAN has accepted China's three-step proposal on how to proceed, beginning with announcement of the adoption of the code's framework in a joint communique released Sunday night. This will be followed up with talks by the end of this month on how negotiations should proceed, and a formal announcement will be made at the ASEAN summit in November.

"The foreign ministers of ASEAN and China have in fact agreed on this three-step process," Bolivar said. "There is a consensus between ASEAN and China."

The adoption of the framework marks the start of what are expected to be thorny negotiations, including about whether the code of conduct should be legally binding. ASEAN would want a legally binding code, but China prefers otherwise.

Speaking in Manila on July 25, Wang said the more stable environment in the South China Sea was partly due to the new diplomatic approach adopted by the Philippines after President Rodrigo Duterte came into office last year. Duterte's predecessor, President Benigno Aquino, had taken a much more litigious tack that included successfully petitioning a tribunal set up under the auspices of the Permanent Court of Arbitration at The Hague in the Netherlands.

China has never recognized that body's jurisdiction in the dispute. Last month, Wang urged ASEAN members to reject unnamed "nonregional forces" that he alleged want to stir up trouble in the South China Sea. The U.K., meanwhile, has plans for freedom-of-navigation exercises in the South China Sea -- following the examples of both Japan and the U.S.

While supporters of the ASEAN-China agreement regard it as a belated step forward, critics say it offers little fundamentally new from the nonbinding and ignored 2002 declaration. The latest framework has not been made public, but a leaked document says that the code is "not an instrument to settle territorial disputes or maritime delimitation issues."

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## Carlosa

Australia-Japan-United States demand legally binding code of conduct for SCS

*Joint Statement of Australia-Japan-United States Trilateral Strategic Dialogue*
Posted by Research Asssisant ⋅ August 7, 2017
*Source: Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs *

*7 August 2017

https://seasresearch.wordpress.com/...-united-states-trilateral-strategic-dialogue/*

The Ministers for Foreign Affairs of Australia, Julie Bishop, the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Japan, Taro Kono, and the Secretary of State of the United States, Rex Tillerson, met in Manila, the Philippines, on August 7, 2017, for the 7th ministerial meeting of the Trilateral Strategic Dialogue. The following is the full text of the joint statement issued after the meeting. Specifically on the South China Sea and maritime security issues, the joint statement says:

The Ministers underscored the importance of upholding the rules-based order, called on all states to respect freedom of navigation and overflight and other internationally lawful uses of the seas, and reiterated that the three countries will continue to fly, sail, and operate wherever international law allows.

The Ministers expressed serious concerns over maritime disputes in the South China Sea (SCS). The Ministers voiced their strong opposition to coercive unilateral actions that could alter the status quo and increase tensions. In this regard, the Ministers urged SCS claimants to refrain from land reclamation, construction of outposts, militarization of disputed features, and undertaking unilateral actions that cause permanent physical change to the marine environment in areas pending delimitation. The Ministers called on all claimants to make and clarify their maritime claims in accordance with the international law of the sea as reflected in the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) and to resolve disputes peacefully in accordance with international law. The Ministers called on China and the Philippines to abide by the Arbitral Tribunal’s 2016 Award in the Philippines-China arbitration, as it is final and legally binding on both parties. The Ministers noted the significance of the UNCLOS dispute settlement regime and the Tribunal’s decision in discussions among parties in their efforts to peacefully resolve their maritime disputes in the SCS. The Ministers urged ASEAN member states and China to fully and effectively implement the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC). The Ministers acknowledged the announced consensus on a framework for the Code of Conduct for the South China Sea (COC). The Ministers further urged ASEAN member states and China to ensure that the COC be finalized in a timely manner, and that it be legally binding, meaningful, effective, and consistent with international law.

The Ministers welcomed the development of trilateral cooperation on capacity building for maritime security and safety in Southeast Asia. The Ministers resolved to advance and build on this cooperation through ongoing exchanges of information and dialogue on regional needs. The Ministers reiterated the commitment of the three nations to continue coordinating their respective assistance programs and to identify ways they can more closely collaborate in the future.

The Ministers expressed strong opposition to any coercive or unilateral actions that could alter the status quo and increase tensions in the East China Sea and will remain in close communication about developments in the area.

———-

*Related documents:*

Treaties, Agreements and Joint Statements:

https://seasresearch.wordpress.com/...nts/treaties-agreements-and-joint-statements/


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## Viet

a news from the country of rising sun:

the number of Vietnamese students working in Japan (74,500 in 2016) has surpassed that of China. Probably the reason why China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi is angry, he canceled a scheduled one-on-one meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart in Manila at the last minute.

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0003810801

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> a news from the country of rising sun:
> 
> the number of Vietnamese students working in Japan (74,500 in 2016) has surpassed that of China. Probably the reason why China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi is angry, he canceled a scheduled one-on-one meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart in Manila at the last minute.
> 
> http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0003810801
> 
> View attachment 416719



Japanese is too old to work, many of my neighbors choose to come to Japan and Korea instead of working for a Vietnamese company. Simply the salary is bigger than so much though they must go away their family. People who worked for Korean usually richer than. The Japanese need to increase their population.Im thinking about to work in Japan as the best way to help family although the cost to come to Japan is not cheap ( 15.000 USD or more than)

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## sinait

xiao qi said:


> Like I said, Vietnamese are stubborn and not easy to be defeated


"stubborn" has bad connotation.
Maybe you meant "steadfast" instead.
Cheers
.

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## xiao qi

sinait said:


> "stubborn" has bad connotation.
> Maybe you meant "steadfast" instead.
> Cheers
> .


ok, I'm not a native English speaker and get many mistakes when I write, thanks for helping me to correct

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## Carlosa

*AUSTRALIAN BUSINESS RATES VIETNAM AS NO. 1 FOR EXPANSION ACCORDING TO AUSTRALIAN BUSINESS IN ASEAN SURVEY 2017*
*https://auschamvn.org/australian-bu...-to-australian-business-in-asean-survey-2017/*

*




Australian Business Asia (of which AusCham is a founding Member) has just launched the 2017 issue of the Australian Business in ASEAN Survey in Singapore (27 July 2017). Among the survey’s findings is that “for firms seeking to expand, Vietnam is now the most popular destination overtaking Myanmar with Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand also sought after markets for expansion”.


To download the original and complete survey, click here.
A copy of the Executive Summary has been reproduced below.

Australian businesses continue to provide a strong contribution across ASEAN and are generally positive about their ability to prosper in the region. The second iteration of the Australian Business in ASEAN Survey revealed that while the challenges remain, firms continue to enter the region and many are actively planning to enter new markets in the next few years to respond to the opportunities inherent in ASEAN’s emergence building on the decades of experience that the Australian business community has in the region.

While Australian business operations in the region continue to be dominated by services firms, there remains some diversity with property, construction and infrastructure and manufacturing making the top five industries represented. It appears that many of the micro and small businesses have grown in the region with a greater proportion of medium sized firms in this year’s survey, although the Australian business community still comes in all shapes and sizes. These firms continue to maintain strong links with with more than half having Australian ownership and more than 70 per cent who have ownership or heritage.

The strategic location of ASEAN nations is strongly recognised by firms operating in the region with almost a third utilising operations as their global headquarters. A further third have established broader regional headquarters in the region.

For firms seeking to expand, Vietnam is now the most popular destination overtaking Myanmar with Indonesia, the Philippines and Thailand also sought after markets for expansion. Improvement in infrastructure has overtaken regional integration as the second most important reason for expanding in the region. However, more than 60 per cent of firms continue to identify the growing consumer class as a primary motivation. the potential for business conduct conflicts is now seen as the major challenge of operating in the region, with barriers to ownership and investment and lack of access to skilled labour rounding out the top three.

Download the survey results

To download the full survey results, click here.

*


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## Carlosa

Vietnam could do the same:

*Indonesia offers coffee, tea & palm oil in exchange for Russian fighter jets*
Published time: 7 Aug, 2017 14:51 








China buys 24 advanced Russian Su-35 warplanes in estimated $2bn landmark deal
_“This barter under the supervision of both governments hopefully will soon be realized through the exchange of 11 Sukhoi Su-35s and a number of Indonesian exports, starting from coffee and tea to palm oil and strategic defense products,”_ Indonesian Trade Minister Enggartiasto Lukita said on Monday, as quoted by Reuters.

Russian state-run corporation Rostec signed a memorandum of understanding for the deal with Indonesian state trading company PT Perusahaan Perdagangan Indonesia. Rostec says it is committed to implement the terms of a counter trade program.

At the same time, the Russian corporation reserves the option to choose which goods it receives in trade from Indonesia as well as the right to pick trade partners and producers for cooperation under the agreement, according to Rostec.

_“The deal allows expanding supplies of Indonesian goods that are the most easily-suited for the Russian market. The range of products will be discussed by members of a specially created advisory group,”_ the company’s press release reads.

Indonesia already operates 16 Sukhoi jets, bought in 2003, when it was subject to a US and EU embargo on arms sales amid the alleged military's human rights abuses in East Timor in 1999.

The Su-35 is a long-range '4++ generation' super-maneuverable fighter jet. It is armed with an internal 30mm cannon and has 12 hard points with a combined capacity of 8,000kg, compatible with a wide range of unguided and guided missiles and bombs. Its maximum speed is 2,500 km/h, with a range of 3,400km, and a combat radius of around 1,600km.

Jakarta is trying to promote its palm oil products amid decreasing demand in Europe. Indonesia is the world’s number one producer of the commodity, which is widely used in cooking, cosmetics and biofuel.

Trade between Russia and Indonesia, the largest economy in Southeast Asia, has fallen in recent years, but Lukita said the wide-ranging US and EU financial and trade sanctions against Russia are an opportunity for Indonesia to revive trade through barter deals in other industries.

_“This is an opportunity that should not be lost from our grasp,”_ said Trade Ministry spokesman Marolop Nainggolan, as quoted by AP.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> Japanese is too old to work, many of my neighbors choose to come to Japan and Korea instead of working for a Vietnamese company. Simply the salary is bigger than so much though they must go away their family. People who worked for Korean usually richer than. The Japanese need to increase their population.Im thinking about to work in Japan as the best way to help family although the cost to come to Japan is not cheap ( 15.000 USD or more than)


Telling you a story. During my summer vacation I visited a popular tourist spot in Germany. I remember of last time the place was full of Japanese but is now full of Chinese. Even the hotel I stayed was full of Chinese unloaded from buses. I almost needed to fight the way thru the Chinese groups. Crazy. Not the South China Sea but close to the situation. I only saw few Japanese couples with classical cameras in the hand. As Vietnamese you know in 5 seconds who is Chinese or Japanese. It is interesting to observe the two groups. Interesting: Vietnamese tourists are on the rise in Germany. Fewer than the Chinese but visible. No clash is observed. Unluckily.

Japan population decreases by 300,000 per year and that is just the beginning. The number of old people has surpassed that of the young. No I'm afraid Japan has reached the point of no return. Why paying $15,000 for a job in JP? The Japanese should pay for it.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Telling you a story. During my summer vacation I visited a popular tourist spot in Germany. I remember of last time the place was full of Japanese but is now full of Chinese. Even the hotel I stayed was full of Chinese unloaded from buses. I almost needed to fight the way thru the Chinese groups. Crazy. Not the South China Sea but close to the situation. I only saw few Japanese couples with classical cameras in the hand. As Vietnamese you know in 5 seconds who is Chinese or Japanese. It is interesting to observe the two groups. Interesting: Vietnamese tourists are on the rise in Germany. Fewer than the Chinese but visible. No clash is observed. Unluckily.
> 
> Japan population decreases by 300,000 per year and that is just the beginning. The number of old people has surpassed that of the young. No I'm afraid Japan has reached the point of no return. Why paying $15,000 for a job in JP? The Japanese should pay for it.



That's what happens when 40% of Japanese men are still virgin and afraid of having a girlfriend. Some Japanese women are looking for Korean men.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Telling you a story. During my summer vacation I visited a popular tourist spot in Germany. I remember of last time the place was full of Japanese but is now full of Chinese. Even the hotel I stayed was full of Chinese unloaded from buses. I almost needed to fight the way thru the Chinese groups. Crazy. Not the South China Sea but close to the situation. I only saw few Japanese couples with classical cameras in the hand. As Vietnamese you know in 5 seconds who is Chinese or Japanese. It is interesting to observe the two groups. Interesting: Vietnamese tourists are on the rise in Germany. Fewer than the Chinese but visible. No clash is observed. Unluckily.
> 
> Japan population decreases by 300,000 per year and that is just the beginning. The number of old people has surpassed that of the young. No I'm afraid Japan has reached the point of no return. Why paying $15,000 for a job in JP? The Japanese should pay for it.


The Vietnamese want to become a worker, student in Japan needs to pay for the broker ( this may be a person or company). They find the job in Japan and move the Vietnamese people to these company ( which need the cheaper worker) and teach Japanese for 3 months or more than for employer before they are moved to Japan. It same as if you live in Germany and can find a lot of job which Vietnamese can do. So you can do the same thing. It also depends on the Germany government ( I think they don't like the foreign employer while Japan need people to replace)

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## xiao qi

It was 53 years ago today, The incident between the USS Maddox and several North Vietnamese torpedo boats happens. While performing a signals intelligence patrol as part of DESOTO operations but It violated Vietnamese EEZ and was pursued by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats of the 135th Torpedo Squadron. Maddox fired three warning shots and the North Vietnamese boats then attacked with torpedoes and machine gun fire. This incident opens the window for the Vietnam War.

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## Viet

*Opinion 
Columnist
*
*Asia’s evolving security order*
August 7, 2017 | 04:05 PM

By Le Hong Hiep





A general view shows vehicles commuting on a highway in Tokyo's bay area Ariake on June 8, 2016. Japan's economy expanded at a slightly faster pace than first thought, revised figures showed on June 8, knocking hopes that the central bank will unleash fresh stimulus this month. - File photo


Much of this collaboration has centered on the South China Sea, where China’s increasingly powerful navy has been asserting its sovereignty claims with increasing vigour in recent years.

During his visit to Huế, Vietnam’s former royal capital, earlier this year, Japanese Emperor Akihito and his entourage were reminded of their country’s longstanding cultural connections with Vietnam. In the eighth century, Phat Triet, a Cham Buddhist monk from what is now central Vietnam, traveled to Japan, where he helped to popularise Cham music and dance, which was later incorporated into the Japanese imperial court’s gagaku performances. During his visit, the emperor had the opportunity to enjoy the Vietnamese version of gagaku, which also has Cham origins.

The emperor’s visit to Vietnam – the first by a Japanese monarch – represents an important milestone in the maturing bilateral relationship, which has been buttressed not only by strong cultural links, but also by robust economic ties and growing strategic cooperation. At the end of last year, Japan was Vietnam’s largest source of official development assistance (ODA), its second-largest foreign investor, and its fourth-largest trade partner.

Along with closer economic cooperation in recent years, Japan and Vietnam have been strengthening strategic ties. The bilateral “strategic partnership” that was established in 2009 was upgraded to an “extended strategic partnership” in 2014.

Defence cooperation, in particular, has progressed considerably. In 2011, Japan and Vietnam signed a Memorandum of Understanding to deepen defence ties, which now include exchanges of military delegations, naval goodwill visits, an annual defense-policy dialogue, and cooperation in military aviation and air defense.

Much of this collaboration has centered on the South China Sea, where China’s increasingly powerful navy has been asserting its sovereignty claims with increasing vigor in recent years. For example, China unilaterally established an Air Defence Identification Zone in the East China Sea and constructed seven artificial islands in the disputed Spratly archipelago, located off the coast of southern Vietnam.

In late July, China reportedly threatened to attack Vietnamese bases in the Spratlys if Vietnam did not stop its oil exploration activities in an area that lies within Vietnam’s continental shelf, but also within Beijing’s notorious nine-dash line. Given the 2016 arbitral tribunal ruling that China’s maritime claims based on that nine-dash line are invalid, Vietnam has superior claims to the area. But Vietnam decided to back down, rather than face the risk of armed confrontation.

That does not, however, mean that China’s coercive actions – which not only undermine Vietnam’s own security, but also threaten the regional status quo – are not being met with resistance. In 2013, Japan’s defence minister, Itsunori Onodera, visited Vietnam’s Fourth Navy Zone headquarters in Cam Ranh Bay to observe Vietnam’s defense setup for the Spratlys. During that visit, Japan and Vietnam agreed to expand defense cooperation into new areas, especially modernization of Vietnam’s maritime defense agencies and military technology.

At Vietnam’s request, Japan has also provided the country with six patrol boats to support its defense activities in the South China Sea. Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, visiting Vietnam in January, pledged to provide six more boats worth $338 million.

Japan will also reportedly sell Vietnam two advanced radar-based earth observation satellites. The order, expected to be delivered by 2018 and funded by Japanese ODA, will enhance Vietnam’s maritime awareness in the South China Sea. Vietnam is also said to be considering a purchase of second-hand P-3C anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft from Japan – a fleet that would likely be assigned to missions in the South China Sea.

From Vietnam’s perspective, Japan is perhaps the most important strategic partner with which to counterbalance China’s maritime expansionism and constrain its hegemonic ambitions. Japan is not only economically and militarily capable; it is also willing to help its Southeast Asian neighbours, so that they, too, can contribute to maintaining the regional balance of power. Japan’s power and longstanding antagonistic relationship with China reinforces the credibility of Japanese security commitments toward Vietnam and other countries in the region.

Vietnam’s interest in defence cooperation with Japan dovetails with the Abe administration’s goal of “normalising” Japan’s defence posture, in order to reduce the country’s dependence on the United States. Japan considers Vietnam a particularly promising security partner, precisely because of the countries’ shared maritime security interests.

Now that US President Donald Trump’s administration is threatening to reduce military engagement with Asia, the need for strategic cooperation among regional actors is becoming even more acute. This goes beyond bilateral relationships, to include potentially the creation of a “principled security network,” as US President Barack Obama’s administration once proposed.

Such an arrangement would resemble what Anne-Marie Slaughter and Mira Rapp-Hooper have called “mesh networks,” which “are highly resilient, because no individual node is critical to the structure’s survival – even if one link breaks, the structure survives.” Japan’s enhanced security ties with Vietnam and other like-minded Asian countries (such as Australia, the Philippines, Singapore, and India), may lead to the emergence of such a resilient network, which can serve as a vital hedge against declining US commitment to the region.

Of course, significant challenges lie ahead. Historical animosities continue to cast a shadow over Japan’s relationships with some Asian countries. Vietnam recalls the dark days of occupation by Japan during World War II, when famine killed up to two million Vietnamese.

But Vietnam has largely overcome its grudge against Japan. In fact, Akihito’s meeting, on his recent visit, with relatives of Japanese soldiers who remained after WWII to start families with Vietnamese women served as a symbol of bilateral reconciliation. The path toward ever-deeper economic and strategic cooperation, shaped by convergent national interests, now seems clearer than ever. - Project Syndicate

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## Carlosa

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...n-ends-impasse-over-disputes-beijing-calls-no

*Asean ends impasse over disputes with Beijing, calls for no militarisation in South China Sea*

Diplomats issue communique noting concern about island-building and making vague reference to last year’s international ruling against China


PUBLISHED : Sunday, 06 August, 2017, 11:38pm











Southeast Asian foreign ministers ended an impasse on Sunday over how to address disputes with China in the South China Sea, issuing a communique that called for militarisation to be avoided and noting concern about island-building.

In a surprise move, the ministers also mentioned in their 46-page statement a vague reference to an international arbitration ruling last year that invalidated China’s historical claims to virtually all of the strategic waterway. As in past criticisms, they did not cite China by name.

The South China Sea has long been the most divisive issue for the Association of South East Asian Nations, with China’s influence looming large over its activities. Some countries are wary about the possible repercussions of defying Beijing by taking a stronger stand.

Asean and China adopt framework for crafting code on South China Sea

Asean failed to issue its customary statement on Saturday, over what diplomats said was disagreement about whether to make oblique references to China’s rapid expansion of its defence capabilities on artificial islands in disputed waters.

China is sensitive to even a veiled reference by the Asean bloc to its seven reclaimed reefs, three of which have runways, missile batteries, radars and, according to some experts, the capability to accommodate fighters.

The communique late on Sunday takes a stronger position than an earlier, unpublished draft, which was a watered-down version of one issued last year in Laos.

50 years on, the South China Sea stands between Asean and ‘one community’

The agreed text “emphasised the importance of non-militarisation and self-restraint”.

It said that after extensive discussions, concerns were voiced by some members about land reclamation “and activities in the area which have eroded trust and confidence, increased tension and may undermine peace, security and stability”.

Asean’s deadlock over the statement highlights China’s growing influence on the grouping at a time of uncertainty over the new US administration’s security priorities and whether it will try to keep China’s maritime activities in check.

Several Asean diplomats said that among the members who pushed for a communique that retained the more contentious elements was Vietnam, which has competing claims with China over the Paracel and Spratly archipelago, and has had several spats with Beijing over energy concessions.

Duterte’s joint energy plan for South China Sea may test Asean’s unity

Another diplomat, however, said there was no real disagreement on the contents of the communique, and stressed that the initial draft was seen by some members as weak.

Also on Sunday, the foreign ministers of Asean and China adopted a negotiating framework for a code of conduct in the South China Sea, a move they hailed as progress but seen by critics as a tactic to buy China time to consolidate its maritime power.

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## sinait

xiao qi said:


> ok, I'm not a native English speaker and get many mistakes when I write, thanks for helping me to correct


Good for you.
I am trying hard to unnative English myself.
That is to not think and count primarily in English, though that comes in handy when pissing each other in an English based forum. You know what I mean, we usually can count the fastest in a certain language and we are more confident in what we write. 
So I despise those Indians who like to fault others for their not so perfect English.

English is for international communication. 
I was brought up to treat English as very important, until I found out the Japanese(in Singapore) don't know much English and yet they were able to achieve so much. Subsequently Korea, Taiwan and China proved again that excellent English is not that essential for industrialization, development and progress. 
Vietnam will be the next one to prove that to be true.

Those who are better in English than their native language are banana people, e.g. the Indians.
Be very proud of your own language, too late for me, haha.
Cheers
.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's what happens when 40% of Japanese men are still virgin and afraid of having a girlfriend. Some Japanese women are looking for Korean men.


Japanese girls looking for Korean men? That is a new low. Recently a report on TV, many Japanese men have virtual girlfriend and plastic doll. I admit that has certain benefits though 



xiao qi said:


> The Vietnamese want to become a worker, student in Japan needs to pay for the broker ( this may be a person or company). They find the job in Japan and move the Vietnamese people to these company ( which need the cheaper worker) and teach Japanese for 3 months or more than for employer before they are moved to Japan. It same as if you live in Germany and can find a lot of job which Vietnamese can do. So you can do the same thing. It also depends on the Germany government ( I think they don't like the foreign employer while Japan need people to replace)


Time will come JP will pay to get foreigners to come to the country to work. Though I am too sure either. The Japanese are tough be known for bushido code, they rather go down the way to the bitter end than u-turn once they are convinced of certain things.

The Germans for instance pay a lot of money to get Vietnamese here to work especially as caregiver. The demand exceeds supply.

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## Nabil365

Carlosa said:


> That's what happens when 40% of Japanese men are still virgin and afraid of having a girlfriend. Some Japanese women are looking for Korean men.


Can give them my number?


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Japanese girls looking for Korean men? That is a new low. Recently a report on TV, many Japanese men have virtual girlfriend and plastic doll. I admit that has certain benefits though
> 
> 
> Time will come JP will pay to get foreigners to come to the country to work. Though I am too sure either. The Japanese are tough be known for bushido code, they rather go down the way to the bitter end than u-turn once they are convinced of certain things.


Today, one of my neighbor ask me the
choice between learning Japanese and studying in a university

in Vietnam for her daughter, so I give her this first one.



Nabil365 said:


> Can give them my number?


They maybe love Korean by the affection from Kpop to Japan, for these nations like Vietnam and Bangladesh, I think it is difficult. Of course, If you are enough handsome, money, job, home, car..etc..this is the different thing.

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## Nabil365

xiao qi said:


> Today, one of my neighbor ask me the
> choice between learning Japanese and studying in a university
> 
> in Vietnam for her daughter, so I give her this first one.
> 
> 
> They maybe love Korean by the affection from Kpop to Japan, for these nations like Vietnam and Bangladesh, I think it is difficult. Of course, If you are enough handsome, money, job, home, car..etc..this is the different thing.


Korean guys and girls are ugly.Ask them to stay infront of candle and watch how their face melt.


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## xiao qi

Nabil365 said:


> Korean guys and girls are ugly.Ask them to stay infront of candle and watch how their face melt.


  But they have the better technology to refix their face.

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## Carlosa

*Inside Donald Trump's disastrous week in the South China Sea*

Aug. 5, 2017, 1:53 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-donald-trumps-disastrous-week-in-the-south-china-sea-2017-8




A Vietnamese naval soldier stands guard at Thuyen Chai island in the Spratly archipelago, January 17, 2013. Thomson Reuters

Vietnam’s history is full of heroic tales of resistance to China. But this month Hanoi bent the knee to Beijing, humiliated in a contest over who controls the South China Sea, the most disputed waterway in the world.

Hanoi has been looking to Washington for implicit backing to see off Beijing’s threats.

At the same time, the Trump administration demonstrated that it either does not understand or sufficiently care about the interests of its friends and potential partners in Southeast Asia to protect them against China.

Southeast Asian governments will conclude that the United States does not have their backs. And while Washington eats itself over Russian spies and health care debates, one of the world’s most crucial regions is slipping into Beijing’s hands.

There’s no tenser set of waters in the world than the South China Sea. For the last few years, China and its neighbors have been bluffing, threatening, cajoling, and suing for control of its resources. In June, Vietnam made an assertive move. After two and a half years of delay, it finally granted Talisman Vietnam (a subsidiary of the Spanish energy firm Repsol) permission to drill for gas at the very edge of Hanoi’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the South China Sea.

Under mainstream interpretations of the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Vietnam was well within its rights to do so. Under China’s idiosyncratic interpretation, it was not. China has never even put forward a clear claim to that piece of seabed. On July 25, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang would only urge “the relevant party to cease the relevant unilateral infringing activities” — but without saying what they actually were. In the absence of official clarity, Chinese lawyers and official think tanks have suggested two main interpretations.




A Vietnamese Marine Guard officer monitors a Chinese coast guard vessel in the South China Sea, about 130 miles offshore of Vietnam May 15, 2014. REUTERS/Nguyen Minh

China may be claiming “historic rights” to this part of the sea on the grounds that it has always been part of the Chinese domain (something obviously contested by all the other South China Sea claimants, as well as neutral historians). Alternatively, it may be claiming that the Spratly Islands — the collection of islets, reefs, and rocks off the coasts of Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines — are entitled as a group to their own EEZ. An international arbitration tribunal in The Hague, however, ruled these claims incompatible with UNCLOS a year ago. China has refused to recognize both the tribunal and its ruling.

In mid-June, Talisman Vietnam set out to drill a deepwater “appraisal well” in Block 136-03 on what insiders believe is a billion-dollar gas field, only 50 miles from an existing Repsol operation. The Vietnamese government knew there was a risk that China might try to interfere and sent out coast guard ships and other apparently civilian vessels to protect the drillship.

At first, China’s intervention was relatively diplomatic. The vice chairman of the Central Military Commission, Gen. Fan Changlong, visited Hanoi on June 18 and demanded an end to the drilling. When Vietnam refused, he cancelled a joint meeting on border security (the 4th Border Defense Friendly Exchange) and went home.

Reports from Hanoi (which have been confirmed by similar reports, from different sources, to the Australia-based analyst Carlyle Thayer) say that, shortly afterward, the Vietnamese ambassador in Beijing was summoned to the Chinese Foreign Ministry and told, bluntly, that unless the drilling stopped and Vietnam promised never to drill in that part of the sea ever again, China would take military action against Vietnamese bases in the South China Sea.




Reuters

This is a dramatic threat, but it is not unprecedented. While researching my book on the South China Sea, I was told by a former BP executive that China had made similar threats to that company when it was operating off the coast of Vietnam in early 2007. Fu Ying, then the Chinese ambassador in London, told BP’s CEO at the time, Tony Hayward, that she could not guarantee the safety of BP employees if the company did not abandon its operations in the South China Sea. BP immediately agreed and over the following months withdrew from its offshore Vietnam operations. I asked Fu about this at a dinner in Beijing in 2014, and she replied, “I did what I did because I have great respect for BP and did not want it to get into trouble.”

Vietnam occupies around 28 outposts in the Spratly Islands. Some are established on natural islands, but many are isolated blockhouses on remote reefs. According to Thayer, 15 are simply platforms on legs: more like place markers than military installations. They would be all but impossible to defend from a serious attack. China demonstrated this with attacks on Vietnamese positions in the Paracel Islands in 1974 and in a battle over Johnson South Reef in the Spratlys in 1988. Both incidents ended with casualties for Vietnam and territorial gains for China. There are rumors, entirely unconfirmed, that there was a shooting incident near one of these platforms in June. If true, this may have been a more serious warning from Beijing to Hanoi.

Meanwhile, the drillship _Deepsea Metro I_ had found exactly what Repsol was looking for: a handsome discovery — mainly gas but with some oil. The company thought there could be more and kept on drilling. It hoped to reach the designated total depth of the well by the end of July.




An oil rig, right, that China calls Haiyang Shiyou 981 and Vietnam refers to as Hai Duong 981, seen in the South China Sea off the shore of Vietnam, May 14, 2014. Thomson Reuters

Back in Hanoi, the Politburo met to discuss what to do. Low oil prices and declining production from the country’s existing offshore fields were hurting the government budget.

The country needed cheap energy to fuel its economic growth and keep the Communist Party in power — but, at the same time, it was deeply dependent on trade with China.

It is all but impossible to know for sure how big decisions are made in Vietnam, but the version apparently told to Repsol was that the Politburo was deeply split.

Of its 19 members, 17 favored calling China’s bluff. Only two disagreed, but they were the most influential figures at the table: the general secretary of the party, Nguyen Phu Trong, and Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich.

After two acrimonious meetings in mid-July, the decision was made: Vietnam would kowtow to Beijing and end the drilling. According to the same sources,

The winning argument was that the Trump administration could not be relied upon to come to Hanoi’s assistance in the event of a confrontation with China. Reportedly, the mood was rueful. If Hillary Clinton had been sitting in the White House, Repsol executives were apparently told, she would have understood the stakes and everything would have been different.

The faith in Clinton isn’t surprising. Her interventions on behalf of the Southeast Asian claimant states, starting in Hanoi at the July 2010 meeting of the ASEAN Regional Forum, are well remembered in the region. The Barack Obama administration’s focus on the regional rules-based order was welcomed by governments fearful of domination by either the United States or China.




President Barack Obama, left, meets with Chinese President Xi Jinping at the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington, March 31, 2016. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque

That said, some U.S. observers are skeptical that any other administration would have been more forthcoming. Bonnie Glaser, the director of the China Power Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, questions this apparent contrast: “What would the U.S. have done differently [under Obama]? I find it unlikely that the U.S. would militarily defend Vietnam against China. Vietnam isn’t an ally.”

Yet it wouldn’t have taken much: a statement or two about the rules-based order and the importance of abiding by UNCLOS, some coincidental naval exercises during the weeks of the drilling, perhaps even some gunnery practice in the region of Block 136-03 and a few quiet words between Washington and Beijing. “Forward-deployed diplomacy,” as it used to be called.




President Donald Trump, right, shakes hands with Chinese President Xi Jinping during a dinner at Mar-a-Lago, April 6, 2017, in Palm Beach, Florida. AP Photo/Alex Brandon

The Obama administration warned Beijing off the Scarborough Shoal in April 2016 this way. Has Donald Trump’s Washington forgotten the dark art of deterrence?

The implications of China’s victory are obvious.

Regardless of international law, China is going to set the rules in the South China Sea. It is going to apply its own version of history, its own version of “shared” ownership, and it will dictate who can exploit which resources.

If Vietnam, which has at least the beginnings of a credible naval deterrent, can be intimidated, then so can every other country in the region, not least the Philippines.

This month, Manila announced its intention to drill for the potentially huge gas field that lies under the Reed Bank in the South China Sea. The desire to exploit those reserves (before the country’s main gas field at Malampaya runs out in a few years’ time) was the main reason for the Philippines to initiate the arbitration proceedings in The Hague.

The Philippines won a near total legal victory in that case, but since taking office just over a year ago, President Rodrigo Duterte has downplayed its importance. He appears to have been intimidated: preferring to appeal to China for financial aid rather than assert his country’s maritime claims.




Filipino activists at an anti-China rally outside the Chinese Consulate at the financial district of Makati, south of Manila, Philippines, June 4, 2015. AP Photo/Aaron Favila

In May, Duterte told an audience in Manila that Chinese President Xi Jinping had warned him there would be war if the Philippines tried to exploit the gas reserves that the Hague tribunal had ruled belonged to his country. Last week, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi was in the Philippine capital to discuss “joint development” of those energy resources.

Where Duterte and the Vietnamese leadership go, others will follow. Southeast Asian governments have reached one major conclusion from President Trump’s first six months: The United States is not prepared to put skin in the game.

What is the point of all those freedom of navigation operations to maintain UNCLOS if, when push comes to shove, Washington does not support the countries that are on the receiving end of Chinese pressure?




A Chinese Coast Guard ship approaches Filipino fishermen off Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea, also called the West Philippine Sea, September 23, 2015. AP Photo/Renato Etac

Why has Washington been so inept? Secretary of State Rex Tillerson knows the stakes well. His former company ExxonMobil is also investigating a massive gas prospect in disputed waters.

The “Blue Whale” field lies in Block 118, farther north and closer to Vietnam’s coast than Repsol’s discovery — but also contested by China.

Like so much else, it’s a mystery whether this is a deliberate choice by the Trump White House not to get involved in the details of the disputes or if it is a reflection of the decimation of the State Department’s capabilities, with so many senior posts vacant and so many middle-ranking staff leaving.

The most worrying possibility would be that Tillerson failed to act out of the desire to see his former commercial rival, Repsol, fail so that his former employer, ExxonMobil, could obtain greater leverage in the Vietnamese energy market. But what government would ever trust Tillerson again?

Repsol is currently plugging its highly successful appraisal well with cement and preparing to sail away from a total investment of more than $300 million. Reports from the region say a Chinese seismic survey vessel, the _HYSY760_, protected by a small flotilla, is on its way to the same area to examine the prospects for itself.

UNCLOS has been upended, and the rules-based order has been diminished. This wasn’t inevitable nor a _fait accompli_. If Hanoi thought Washington had its back, China could have been deterred — and the credibility of the United States in the region strengthened. Instead, Trump has left the region drifting in the direction of Beijing.

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## Viet

VN is seen as forerunner for peace and prosperity in Far East.

*Japan, RoK back Vietnam’s security initiatives at AMM-50*
http://en.vietnamplus.vn/japan-rok-back-vietnams-security-initiatives-at-amm50/116023.vnp

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## ChineseToTheBone

Carlosa said:


> Vietnam would kowtow to Beijing and end the drilling.


Sounds good to me. Really glad their government and businesses have come around.

Here is an older article, but this particular one from The New York Times has yet been posted.

*Vietnam, Yielding to Beijing, Backs Off South China Sea Drilling*
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/world/asia/vietnam-south-china-sea-repsol.htm

Seems like President Rodrigo Duterte was a catalyst for the change in direction of ASEAN.


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## Carlosa

*Vietnam ‘may tilt towards US’ in regional power play with China*

Manila’s stronger ties with Beijing could prompt Hanoi to move closer to Washington, observers say


PUBLISHED : Tuesday, 08 August, 2017, 11:02pm

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...may-tilt-towards-us-regional-power-play-china











Catherine Wong

http://www.twitter.com/catherinewongbj

catherine.wong@scmp.com
7 Aug 2017
Vietnam has emerged as China’s most vocal rival claimant in the South China Sea and could move closer to the United States as the Philippines tilts towards China, analysts say.

CHINA AT A GLANCE
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Hanoi’s tensions with Beijing came to the surface in Manila on Monday when a scheduled one-on-one meeting of the two countries’ foreign ministers was called off during the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) foreign ministers meeting.

Vietnam pushed for the bloc to insist in its joint communique that a code of conduct with China over the disputed waters should be legally binding, a move Beijing opposes. To China’s dismay, Vietnam also pushed Asean to express concern about “extended construction” in the area.

Observers said there would be more frictions between China and Vietnam as Hanoi sought to engage other regional powers such as Japan and the United States to counterbalance Manila’s shift towards Beijing under Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte.

China-Vietnam maritime tensions flare as foreign ministers meeting called off

To that end, US Defence Secretary James Mattis is due to have talks with his Vietnamese counterpart Ngo Xuan Lich in Washington this week. Vietnam will also host the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in November, which US President Donald Trump might attend.

Ties between Hanoi and Washington were given a big boost last year when the administration of former US president Barack Obama lifted a cold war ban on the sale of lethal weapons to Vietnam.

Zhang Mingliang, a specialist on Southeast Asian affairs at Jinan University in Guangzhou, said there had long been tensions between Vietnam and China.






“Vietnam has always been the country in Asean that has the strongest suspicions of Beijing ... because it shares both a maritime and land border with China,” Zhang said.

To shore up its position against China, Vietnam has beefed up its naval strength and quietly fortified several of its islands in the disputed waters. Vietnamese coastguard vessels also held their first joint exercises with their Japanese counterparts in June, simulating an operation to thwart illegal fishing in the South China Sea.

After talking to China about China, Vietnam goes to Washington to do it again

Dai Fan, also from Jinan University, said the South China Sea was more important to Vietnam than the Philippines.

“As a country occupying a narrow strip of land, Vietnam lacks strategic depth and is therefore more vulnerable to attack. This is why Vietnam needs to be more protective of its maritime rights,” Dai said.

Xue Li, a maritime policy expert with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said Hanoi would continue to use the international stage to take a strong stand on the South China Sea.

“It’s normal for Vietnam as a small country to balance [forces] but it will not push too far,” Xue said.

He said there was a limit to Vietnam’s approach because of the uncertainty of the Trump administration’s Asia-Pacific policy and its lack of interest in challenging China on the maritime front.

Duterte’s joint energy plan for South China Sea may test Asean’s unity

“Vietnam is unlikely to take a role as active as Aquino,” Xue said, referring to former Philippine president Benigno Aquino who took the South China Sea case to an international tribunal.

“Trump’s interest in the South China Sea will not be as big as Obama’s. There is also fundamental mistrust between Vietnam and the US because of their ideological differences.”

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## xiao qi

*Vietnam wins U.S. defense pledges as tension with China grows*


U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (L) hosts an honor cordon for Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich (R) at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, U.S., August 8, 2017.Kevin Lamarque
Eric Beech and My Pham


WASHINGTON/HANOI (Reuters) - Vietnam has won the promise of a visit from a U.S. aircraft carrier and deeper defense cooperation from the United States as strains show with China over the disputed South China Sea.

Within Southeast Asia, Vietnam has become an increasingly lonely voice in challenging Chinese claims to the vast majority of the waterway and was forced to suspend some offshore oil drilling last month after pressure from Beijing.

U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told Vietnamese counterpart Ngo Xuan Lich in Washington on Tuesday that a strong defense relationship was based on common interests that included freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

"The Secretary welcomed Vietnam's engagement and growing leadership in the Asia-Pacific region," a statement from the Pentagon said.

The defense ministers agreed on a visit by a U.S. aircraft carrier to Vietnam next year - the first such visit since the Vietnam War ended in 1975. President Donald Trump discussed the possibility of a carrier visit with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc when they met at the White House in May.

The agreement was consistent with Vietnam's diplomatic strategy of being open to all countries, said Ha Hoang Hop, a Vietnamese political analyst who has advised the government.

"Vietnam is not willing to compromise on issues of sovereignty and also makes its own preparations," he said.


U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis awaits the arrival of Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, U.S., August 8, 2017.Kevin Lamarque
Beijing has been irritated by Vietnam's growing defense relationships with the United States and rival Asian powers, including Japan and India.

Tension has risen since June, when Vietnam infuriated China by drilling for oil and gas in an offshore block that Beijing disputes. The exploration was suspended after diplomatic protests from China.


A Vietnam flag flies as U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (L) hosts an honor cordon for Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich (R) at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, U.S., August 8, 2017.Kevin Lamarque
China was also annoyed by Vietnam's stand at an Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) meeting at the weekend, when it held out for language in a communique that noted concern about island-building and militarization in the South China Sea.

A scheduled meeting between Chinese and Vietnamese foreign ministers on the sidelines of the summit was canceled. China also pointed to Vietnam's own reclamation work in the South China Sea. [L4N1KU1JM]


Beijing is sensitive to even a veiled reference by ASEAN to its reclamation of seven reefs and its military installations in the South China Sea, which it claims in almost its entirety despite the competing claims of five other countries.

More than $3 trillion in cargo passes through the waterway every year.

Australia, Japan and the United States urged Southeast Asia and China on Monday to ensure that a South China Sea code of conduct they have committed to draw up would be legally binding and said they strongly opposed "coercive unilateral actions".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-china-idUSKBN1AO1D4

@Nilgiri a long time no see, how are you ?

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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> @Nilgiri a long time no see, how are you ?



Good my friend. I do read from time to time this thread....unfortunately there is forum glitch that stops me receiving updates after certain time elapses or something....and that leads to a break (I simply run out of time or forget to check).

Hope you are doing well! I hope India not backing off from the current tension with China ....gives Vietnam more confidence and measured resolve dealing with same country. I know Vietnam definitely inspired us in this regard over much longer time period more than most people know! Look forward to more cooperation, interaction and understanding between our two countries over time.

I was disheartened to see Cambodia toeing the anti-Viet position so much even now in ASEAN talks (and getting bribed for it too it seems)....after all you did for them getting rid of that psycho Pol Pot, even facing off against his big supporter who invaded you to try punish you. Even after all this time though Vietnam has last word on it, and you stay strong without need of anyone else help....I am glad for that.

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> Good my friend. I do read from time to time this thread....unfortunately there is forum glitch that stops me receiving updates after certain time elapses or something....and that leads to a break (I simply run out of time or forget to check).
> 
> Hope you are doing well! I hope India not backing off from the current tension with China ....gives Vietnam more confidence and measured resolve dealing with same country. I know Vietnam definitely inspired us in this regard over much longer time period more than most people know! Look forward to more cooperation, interaction and understanding between our two countries over time.
> 
> I was disheartened to see Cambodia toeing the anti-Viet position so much even now in ASEAN talks (and getting bribed for it too it seems)....after all you did for them getting rid of that psycho Pol Pot, even facing off against his big supporter who invaded you to try punish you. Even after all this time though Vietnam has last word on it, and you stay strong without need of anyone else help....I am glad for that.


Cambodia and Vietnam relation is complicated and needs more words to say about this issues. When Vietnamese ousted PolPot, Many Cambodian people showed gratitude to the Vietnamese. However, by now 80% of them have died, and those young Cambodian who didn't live under Khmer Rouge, they don't feel the need to thank anyone. Although Vietnam may have defeated the Khmer Rouge when it entered Cambodia in 1979, many young Khmer still view the Vietnamese march on Phnom Penh as an invasion, not a liberation. Now they feared of the next invasion. We also have the disputed territories with them but It is not important like the SCS with China ( some ponds in near border of two countries and will resolve in the near time )
The highest leader of Cambodia now is Hunsen. He and his family exploited and are corrupt. In the past, he was backed up by Vietnamese force in Cambodia But near the time he changes his policy to China to keep his power because he scares of Cambodian people they will kick out in the election 2018 in Cambodia and need the support from China. In my opinion, I don't like the intervention of Vietnamese and Chinese in Cambodia. You maybe don't know but I hear some information that said the Vietnamese army support the Cambodia in their dispute with Thailand. Cambodia also has the disputed land with Laos. Compare between North Korea and Cambodia. Actually, North Korea is better than. The Cambodia has too many problems to deal. In fact, Cambodian don't like the Vietnamese, but They also don't like the Chinese. Yesterday, I read one newspaper from Cambodian and they express their anger when the Chinese company bought their land to search for gold. Under the Polpot regime, the number Chinese -Cambodian was killed is not small numbers. Because the Chinese kept the Cambodian economy and Polpot really don't like that. The irony is the Chinese government in mainland support Khmer Rouge to kill their people in Cambodia. Like I said, the relationship is complicated. 
In Cambodia, many people also don't want to involve the conflict between China and Vietnam. Because they know, China is a big country but Vietnam with them is the same. They can't fight with Vietnamese 2 weeks.

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## Viet

ChineseToTheBone said:


> Sounds good to me. Really glad their government and businesses have come around.
> 
> Here is an older article, but this particular one from The New York Times has yet been posted.
> 
> *Vietnam, Yielding to Beijing, Backs Off South China Sea Drilling*
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/world/asia/vietnam-south-china-sea-repsol.htm
> 
> Seems like President Rodrigo Duterte was a catalyst for the change in direction of ASEAN.


Duterte has turned the Philippines into a slaughterhouse. there is little to celebrate. Ok it pays off for you of course if you now bribe Cambodia and Philippines because both will sabotage the ASEAN unity and development. Even for a risk of war in the region. VN backs down yet because we are not ready yet. We will come back.



Nilgiri said:


> Good my friend. I do read from time to time this thread....unfortunately there is forum glitch that stops me receiving updates after certain time elapses or something....and that leads to a break (I simply run out of time or forget to check).
> 
> Hope you are doing well! I hope India not backing off from the current tension with China ....gives Vietnam more confidence and measured resolve dealing with same country. I know Vietnam definitely inspired us in this regard over much longer time period more than most people know! Look forward to more cooperation, interaction and understanding between our two countries over time.
> 
> I was disheartened to see Cambodia toeing the anti-Viet position so much even now in ASEAN talks (and getting bribed for it too it seems)....after all you did for them getting rid of that psycho Pol Pot, even facing off against his big supporter who invaded you to try punish you. Even after all this time though Vietnam has last word on it, and you stay strong without need of anyone else help....I am glad for that.


India should continue to stand ground. That will give VN time and room for military buildup and diplomatic manouver. Cambodia history and relationship to Vietnam is complex and complicated. The Chinese have the tendency to fuel anti Vietnamese sentiment in Cambodia whenever they can.

Ah There are some interesting news about the visit of VN military chief to the Pentagon. Let post some pictures.

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## Viet

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-vietnam-military-idUSKBN1AP010

U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (L) hosts an honor cordon for Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich (R) at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, U.S., August 8, 2017.





















Among other things, two agreements:
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/1272572/

- VN will host the first US aircraft carrier by next year (the first since end of Vietnam war). More regular visits of US carriers and other nations such as UK will probably follow.

- VN and US will increase intel information sharing.

Ha Hoang Hop, a political analyst who has advised the Vietnamese government: *"Vietnam is not willing to compromise on issues of sovereignty and also makes its own preparations".*

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## Carlosa

*By needling 3 great powers simultaneously, China probably just punctured its own future*
R Sriram
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...share&utm_campaign=socialsharebutton&from=mdr

Great empires and countries often fall victim to hubris. The realisation that you are on top of things can sometimes make you act recklessly in conflict. The mighty Americans experienced this in Vietnam and a few decades before that Nazi Germany, tried to grab everything in Europe only to suffer the most humiliating of defeats. The Turks in the 17th century, when they tried to stretch their hands to grab the most important of all prizes, Vienna, and the British Empire’s short-lived excursion into Afghanistan are examples of reverses suffered by great powers when their ambitions tried to defy reason and logic. 

Modern-day China is in a similar situation. Two years ago, the Middle Kingdom’s problems were only economic. There was a dispute with Japan and another dispute over islands with South-east Asian nations but that was it. China’s biggest problem then was to stop its economy from sliding into middle to low single digits and accomplish the great triple transition, the shift from investment to consumption, manufacturing to services and exports to domestic market. 

The fate of that transition today still hangs in balance but China has unwisely managed to get itself embroiled in some ugly geopolitical disputes. What is more, these disputes are with powerful countries who have the ability to hurt its interests. 

Whether China has done its due to overconfidence, hubris or just plain recklessness is unclear but what is clear is that China’s ambitious attempt to project power only tells a part of the story. It hides a problem, a problem that is likely to get bigger the more intransigent its leaders get. 

Let’s examine more on this issue. North Korea is a festering sore with the US continuously haranguing China for its inaction in tackling the nuclear menace. The spat over South China sea islands continues and may get uglier. The Trump administration may be more assertive in dealing with Chinese infractions than the Obama national securitystate department team and that is not good news for Xi Jinping. 

The biggest problem of them all is the stand-off with India in Doklam. China’s intrusion into the Bhutan-Tibet-India trijunction, its desire to build a road and get access to the commanding heights overlooking the Siliguri corridor is an example of the assertive politics that Chinese leaders and generals are willing to play. In 1962, China took advantage of Indian weakness and the foolish Forward Policy brinkmanship of the Jawaharlal Nehru-Krishna Menon duo to quickly teach India a lesson. In Doklam, as things stand today, we don’t know what will happen. 

Military experts and writers have talked about India’s strategic ground advantage and its tough stance and how China could be forced into looking for a face-saver given that India is not backing down. There could a war. Even if there is, is India better prepared than it was in 1962? We will never know for sure till it happens, but there is some evidence to believe that we are. 

But let’s not talk of military action. Let’s look at trade where China is vulnerable and we are not. If China continues to be intransigent, can India hit back at investments and trade? Can India show that it can hurt China by stopping, reversing investments and clamping down on imports? This, to some extent, is already happening and it should know that trade is its soft underbelly and that India can hit where it hurts. 

Trump, for China, is a far bigger threat. The US president has been warning China of trade repercussions if it does not behave. So far China has played ball only reluctantly and Trump has not been afraid of using the stick when he wants it. A recent China-US trade meet was not a happy one and Chinese banks and individuals have been targeted for sanctions. Chinese investments in US may be next on radar. 

India, US and Japan, either together or separately have the ability to damage and thwart China’s ambitions. It can be done through trade, through joint military or diplomatic posture and even joint approach to strengthening relations and building investments in the emerging world. In 1962, India had no trade leverage over China. That’s not the case today. Will China be able to stomach a billions of lost opportunity in investment and trade if India decides to apply pressure? With the US, the lost opportunity in trade is bigger. 

A recovering Chinese economy can ill-afford this hit. Some experts believe that Trump, despite his bravado, will not act against China. But that may be a hasty conclusion. Trump has shown that he is not afraid to act when it comes to protecting US interests and won’t hesitate to poke the dragon in the eye if he feels that it will serve him well politically. 

Yes, China can probably not be defeated on the battlefield by a single nation without using massive power. But a club of nations, acting together or alone, can definitely peg back China’s ambitions. China should realise that the world has changed drastically since 1962.



Viet said:


> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-vietnam-military-idUSKBN1AP010
> 
> U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (L) hosts an honor cordon for Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich (R) at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, U.S., August 8, 2017.
> 
> View attachment 417106
> View attachment 417107
> View attachment 417108
> View attachment 417109
> View attachment 417110
> View attachment 417111
> 
> 
> Among other things, two agreements:
> https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/1272572/
> 
> - VN will host the first US aircraft carrier by next year (the first since end of Vietnam war). More regular visits of US carriers and other nations such as UK will probably follow.
> 
> - VN and US will increase intel information sharing.
> 
> Ha Hoang Hop, a political analyst who has advised the Vietnamese government: *"Vietnam is not willing to compromise on issues of sovereignty and also makes its own preparations".*



US statement:

*U.S. welcomes Vietnam's "growing leadership in the Asia-Pacific region".*

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Good my friend. I do read from time to time this thread....unfortunately there is forum glitch that stops me receiving updates after certain time elapses or something....and that leads to a break (I simply run out of time or forget to check).
> 
> Hope you are doing well! I hope India not backing off from the current tension with China ....gives Vietnam more confidence and measured resolve dealing with same country. I know Vietnam definitely inspired us in this regard over much longer time period more than most people know! Look forward to more cooperation, interaction and understanding between our two countries over time.
> 
> I was disheartened to see Cambodia toeing the anti-Viet position so much even now in ASEAN talks (and getting bribed for it too it seems)....after all you did for them getting rid of that psycho Pol Pot, even facing off against his big supporter who invaded you to try punish you. Even after all this time though Vietnam has last word on it, and you stay strong without need of anyone else help....I am glad for that.



Cambodians are nuts, they have extreme hate for Vietnamese. I was there a few times, last time I asked my driver: Vietnam saved Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge, why do you hate them so much? His answer: Oh no, they didn't do anything for us, it was all part of their plan together with the Khmer Rouge; they created the situation.

Can't rationally talk to people like that, they always look for an excuse to justify their feelings. When Cambodian politicians need votes, they only need to blame something on Vietnamese, it always works.

The reality is that they resent that present south Vietnam used to be Khmer territory and the Viets took it over.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *By needling 3 great powers simultaneously, China probably just punctured its own future*
> R Sriram
> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...share&utm_campaign=socialsharebutton&from=mdr
> 
> Great empires and countries often fall victim to hubris. The realisation that you are on top of things can sometimes make you act recklessly in conflict. The mighty Americans experienced this in Vietnam and a few decades before that Nazi Germany, tried to grab everything in Europe only to suffer the most humiliating of defeats. The Turks in the 17th century, when they tried to stretch their hands to grab the most important of all prizes, Vienna, and the British Empire’s short-lived excursion into Afghanistan are examples of reverses suffered by great powers when their ambitions tried to defy reason and logic.
> 
> Modern-day China is in a similar situation. Two years ago, the Middle Kingdom’s problems were only economic. There was a dispute with Japan and another dispute over islands with South-east Asian nations but that was it. China’s biggest problem then was to stop its economy from sliding into middle to low single digits and accomplish the great triple transition, the shift from investment to consumption, manufacturing to services and exports to domestic market.
> 
> The fate of that transition today still hangs in balance but China has unwisely managed to get itself embroiled in some ugly geopolitical disputes. What is more, these disputes are with powerful countries who have the ability to hurt its interests.
> 
> Whether China has done its due to overconfidence, hubris or just plain recklessness is unclear but what is clear is that China’s ambitious attempt to project power only tells a part of the story. It hides a problem, a problem that is likely to get bigger the more intransigent its leaders get.
> 
> Let’s examine more on this issue. North Korea is a festering sore with the US continuously haranguing China for its inaction in tackling the nuclear menace. The spat over South China sea islands continues and may get uglier. The Trump administration may be more assertive in dealing with Chinese infractions than the Obama national securitystate department team and that is not good news for Xi Jinping.
> 
> The biggest problem of them all is the stand-off with India in Doklam. China’s intrusion into the Bhutan-Tibet-India trijunction, its desire to build a road and get access to the commanding heights overlooking the Siliguri corridor is an example of the assertive politics that Chinese leaders and generals are willing to play. In 1962, China took advantage of Indian weakness and the foolish Forward Policy brinkmanship of the Jawaharlal Nehru-Krishna Menon duo to quickly teach India a lesson. In Doklam, as things stand today, we don’t know what will happen.
> 
> Military experts and writers have talked about India’s strategic ground advantage and its tough stance and how China could be forced into looking for a face-saver given that India is not backing down. There could a war. Even if there is, is India better prepared than it was in 1962? We will never know for sure till it happens, but there is some evidence to believe that we are.
> 
> But let’s not talk of military action. Let’s look at trade where China is vulnerable and we are not. If China continues to be intransigent, can India hit back at investments and trade? Can India show that it can hurt China by stopping, reversing investments and clamping down on imports? This, to some extent, is already happening and it should know that trade is its soft underbelly and that India can hit where it hurts.
> 
> Trump, for China, is a far bigger threat. The US president has been warning China of trade repercussions if it does not behave. So far China has played ball only reluctantly and Trump has not been afraid of using the stick when he wants it. A recent China-US trade meet was not a happy one and Chinese banks and individuals have been targeted for sanctions. Chinese investments in US may be next on radar.
> 
> India, US and Japan, either together or separately have the ability to damage and thwart China’s ambitions. It can be done through trade, through joint military or diplomatic posture and even joint approach to strengthening relations and building investments in the emerging world. In 1962, India had no trade leverage over China. That’s not the case today. Will China be able to stomach a billions of lost opportunity in investment and trade if India decides to apply pressure? With the US, the lost opportunity in trade is bigger.
> 
> A recovering Chinese economy can ill-afford this hit. Some experts believe that Trump, despite his bravado, will not act against China. But that may be a hasty conclusion. Trump has shown that he is not afraid to act when it comes to protecting US interests and won’t hesitate to poke the dragon in the eye if he feels that it will serve him well politically.
> 
> Yes, China can probably not be defeated on the battlefield by a single nation without using massive power. But a club of nations, acting together or alone, can definitely peg back China’s ambitions. China should realise that the world has changed drastically since 1962.
> 
> 
> 
> US statement:
> 
> *U.S. welcomes Vietnam's "growing leadership in the Asia-Pacific region".*


Oh I missed the statement from the United States. He he ...Vietnam with growing leads. Yes it is better for everyone if a country like VN with IQ leads the bloc. Look at the Philippines. Vietnam has been the primary rice supplier for the country for years. Once Durtete came to power, he imposed restriction on rice import, apparently to hurt VN and to please his new friend China. Now the country rice stock sinks to just 4 day reserves, he is panicked. I guess should the Philippines slip into famine, Xi Jinping would continue to brag growing CN-PN relationship.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Cambodians are nuts, they have extreme hate for Vietnamese. I was there a few times, last time I asked my driver: Vietnam saved Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge, why do you hate them so much? His answer: Oh no, they didn't do anything for us, it was all part of their plan together with the Khmer Rouge; they created the situation.
> 
> Can't rationally talk to people like that, they always look for an excuse to justify their feelings. When Cambodian politicians need votes, they only need to blame something on Vietnamese, it always works.
> 
> The reality is that they resent that present south Vietnam used to be Khmer territory and the Viets took it over.


They are extremely interesting, Polpot too, In one his interview he said he doesn't know any massacre and crime, his employer did but he didn't know when he was the highest leader of them. He also said the Vietnamese are the reason but under his regime, more than 2 million Cambodian people were killed for nothing. If Vietnamese agent can kill 2 million people under Polpot's hand so I think the Vietnamese agent is the best in the world. Some of them suppose the Vietnamese agent at that time ordered Polpot attacked the Vietnamese territories and kill Vietnamese people to create a chance for Vietnamese soldier launched a war in Cambodia and annex their territories. So funny.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> They are extremely interesting, Polpot too, In one his interview he said he doesn't know any massacre and crime, his employer did but he didn't know when he was the highest leader of them. He also said the Vietnamese are the reason but under his regime, more than 2 million Cambodian people were killed for nothing. If Vietnamese agent can kill 2 million people under Polpot's hand so I think the Vietnamese agent is the best in the world. Some of them suppose the Vietnamese agent at that time ordered Polpot attacked the Vietnamese territories and kill Vietnamese people to create a chance for Vietnamese soldier launched a war in Cambodia and annex their territories. So funny.


The Khmer are easy to be manipulated. Look, Polpot and his murder gang staged an extreme form of Chinese style mass killing and cultural destruction. Cambodia's entire history, scripts, books including teachers were destroyed and butchered. Only the ancient inscriptions in temples remain. There was nothing left. Zero. Vietnam had rebuilt completely the entire system. Nevertheless the cambodians hate Vietnam. It is surreal. I am not sure who hates VN more: the Chinese or the Khmer?

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-vietnam-military-idUSKBN1AP010
> 
> U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (L) hosts an honor cordon for Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich (R) at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, U.S., August 8, 2017.
> 
> View attachment 417106
> View attachment 417107
> View attachment 417108
> View attachment 417109
> View attachment 417110
> View attachment 417111
> 
> 
> Among other things, two agreements:
> https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/1272572/
> 
> - VN will host the first US aircraft carrier by next year (the first since end of Vietnam war). More regular visits of US carriers and other nations such as UK will probably follow.
> 
> - VN and US will increase intel information sharing.
> 
> Ha Hoang Hop, a political analyst who has advised the Vietnamese government: *"Vietnam is not willing to compromise on issues of sovereignty and also makes its own preparations".*


Yeah, as I said, we just temporally halt our oil exploration to gain more support. CN coast guard is just a big failure, cant fight wt our coast guard. When we gain enough support from US-Russia-India, then we will teach the useless PLAN a lesson

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> The Khmer are easy to be manipulated. Look, Polpot and his murder gang staged an extreme form of Chinese style mass killing and cultural destruction. Cambodia's entire history, scripts, books including teachers were destroyed and butchered. Only the ancient inscriptions in temples remain. There was nothing left. Zero. Vietnam had rebuilt completely the entire system. Nevertheless the cambodians hate Vietnam. It is surreal. I am not sure who hates VN more: the Chinese or the Khmer?


The Chinese have no reason to hate Vietnam like we had no reason to hate Khmer, look down maybe a little bit like the rich people look down the poor people.You were born and lived in Germany, It maybe is the reason why You don't really understand the Chinese like me. When Vietnam is strong same as Japan or Korea so Let's think about the Chinese's emotion toward us. Vietnamese are tough, yes, Vietnamese are dangerous and need to care, Yes, the ant can kill the elephant. Yes, but no more. They don't need to attack our because we are inferior about the economy, technology, people...we are weak. So they will not care Vietnam so much. Why they need to hate a person who is not enough power to become their competitor.
I don't understand why between Chinese, Japanese, Korean, I extremely don't like the Korean. Japanese ( Vietnamese people almost think they are good, superior etc but I dont think like that). Chinese, uhm, I admit one thing, If Vietnam is larger and had the population like them. All nations in the world will be beaten

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## Carlosa

*Analysis: US, allies slow Beijing’s South China Sea momentum*
*https://apnews.com/88824aec36f440ba...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP
*
MANILA, Philippines (AP) — With the rise of a friendly leader in the Philippines, China has been spared a vocal adversary in the disputed South China Sea. In the process, it has gained momentum despite last year’s ruling by an arbitration tribunal that invalidated its expansive claims in the disputed waters.

The rapprochement between President Rodrigo Duterte and his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, defused a tense standoff between the Asian neighbors last year at the disputed Scarborough Shoal, where China allowed Filipinos back to fish in October as years of thorny relations began to brighten.

As President Donald Trump succeeded Barack Obama, who had challenged China’s assertive advances in the disputed sea, U.S. allies wondered if Trump would press America’s role as a regional counterbalance to the Asian powerhouse.

An annual summit of Asia-Pacific nations hosted by the Philippines over the weekend, however, delivered a reality check to Beijing.

U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson met his Australian and Japanese counterparts on the sidelines of the meetings in Manila of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, or ASEAN. After their meeting, they issued a joint statement that blasted aggressive actions in the contested offshore territories — without, of course, naming Beijing directly, in line with diplomatic practice.

Nevertheless, China quickly voiced its irritation.

Its top diplomat said that while his country and the 10-nation ASEAN bloc “all fully recognized that the situation in the South China Sea is showing signs of changes and things are moving toward a positive direction,” some countries outside the region “are not seeing the positive changes” and are holding onto a mindset that “still stays in the past.”

After the Philippines, ASEAN’s leader this year, hosted the first of three major summits of the bloc in April, Duterte issued a traditional chairman’s statement that dropped mention of contentious issues, including Beijing’s island constructions in disputed reefs that China has lobbied to be struck out of such high-profile communiques. For China, it was seen as a diplomatic coup.

Closeted in their annual gathering in Manila over the weekend, however, ASEAN foreign ministers wrangled over the tone and wordings to depict the territorial rifts involving China and five other governments in their joint statement, which unlike the chairman’s statement is a negotiated document.

A draft of the ASEAN ministerial statement seen by The Associated Press before it was finalized and made public provided a glimpse of the closed-door intramurals, with Vietnam insisting on stronger language against China’s increasingly assertive actions in the busy waters.

Vietnamese diplomats, for example, insisted on mentioning concern over “extended construction” in the contested waters. Cambodia, a Chinese ally, deferred a vote on the inclusion of worries over militarization.

The Philippines was one of the countries that opposed mention of land reclamation and militarization in the communique, Foreign Secretary Alan Peter Cayetano acknowledged in a news conference late Tuesday. China, he said, threatened to end future talks aimed at resolving conflicts if the arbitration ruling was mentioned in the statement.

“We won’t make any progress,” Cayetano said. “China already said if you talk about the arbitration award there is no talks.”

The protracted quibblings delayed the statement’s release, two Southeast Asian diplomats told the AP. When it was issued a day later, the joint ministerial statement — surprisingly — mentioned land reclamation and militarization and, to Beijing’s certain dismay, carried a vague reference to the arbitration ruling: “full respect for diplomatic and legal process.”

Wang played down mention of the issues, including land reclamation, that critics have used to refer to China’s massive island constructions in the South China Sea.

The next battle is over a proposed “code of conduct,” which aims to stymie aggressive behavior in the disputed sea, including new construction and military fortifications. China concluded talks with ASEAN for a negotiating framework for the nonaggression code, a baby step both sides hailed as a milestone.

Most ASEAN states, including the Philippines, back a legally binding code. China wants otherwise and opposes mention of the contentious issues, including arbitration and a conflict-resolution arrangement, given its preference to solve the conflicts through one-on-one negotiation with its smaller rival claimants. With ASEAN unable to do anything unless it acquiesces to China’s wishes, it relented to reach a consensus. Proponents of the rule of law were dismayed.

The agreed framework “is a lowest-common-denominator effort. It lacks teeth because China has opposed making it legally binding and refused to include a dispute settlement mechanism,” said Bonnie Glaser, a senior adviser for Asia at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.

“With ASEAN itself divided and China’s sway over individual ASEAN members growing,” Glaser said, “this is an unsurprising even if disappointing development.”

Wang announced at the Manila meetings that China would be ready to start negotiations for the maritime code when its leader travels to the Philippines and joins ASEAN heads of state in November.

But first, he said, in a shot at the United States, the situation has to be stable and free of “major disruption from outside parties.”

The United States, Australia and Japan immediately weighed in, urging China and ASEAN “to ensure that the code of conduct be finalized in a timely manner, and that it be legally binding, meaningful, effective, and consistent with international law.”

“Outside parties like the U.S. will do what they think is needed to promote peace and stability in the region,” Glaser said. “If China opposes those actions, so be it.”

___

Jim Gomez, chief correspondent for the AP in the Philippines, has covered security, terrorism and foreign policy issues in Southeast Asia for more than two decades.

___

Associated Press writer Teresa Cerojano contributed to this report.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> The Chinese have no reason to hate Vietnam like we had no reason to hate Khmer, look down maybe a little bit like the rich people look down the poor people.You were born and lived in Germany, It maybe is the reason why You don't really understand the Chinese like me. When Vietnam is strong same as Japan or Korea so Let's think about the Chinese's emotion toward us. Vietnamese are tough, yes, Vietnamese are dangerous and need to care, Yes, the ant can kill the elephant. Yes, but no more. They don't need to attack our because we are inferior about the economy, technology, people...we are weak. So they will not care Vietnam so much. Why they need to hate a person who is not enough power to become their competitor.
> I don't understand why between Chinese, Japanese, Korean, I extremely don't like the Korean. Japanese ( Vietnamese people almost think they are good, superior etc but I dont think like that). Chinese, uhm, I admit one thing, If Vietnam is larger and had the population like them. All nations in the world will be beaten


Sis I was born in VN. The Chinese have 1,000 reasons to hate VN. To understand one should read the history of VN and CN. It is not about rich and poor, neither superior nor inferior. It has to do with different strategic interests.


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## ChineseToTheBone

Viet said:


> Duterte has turned the Philippines into a slaughterhouse. there is little to celebrate. Ok it pays off for you of course if you now bribe Cambodia and Philippines because both will sabotage the ASEAN unity and development. Even for a risk of war in the region. VN backs down yet because we are not ready yet. We will come back.


Surely you must realize that ASEAN does not have true unity since neighbouring members have competing interests with one another such as disputed waters.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Sis I was born in VN. The Chinese have 1,000 reasons to hate VN. To understand one should read the history of VN and CN. It is not about rich and poor, neither superior nor inferior. It has to do with different strategic interests.


The new thing with me, oh, I don't know, You were born in Vietnam. Ok, For the Vietnamese and Chinese. My opinion, Vietnamese have reason to hate Chinese but Chinese had no reason to hate Vietnamese. You can see the answer from Chinese in here https://www.quora.com/Do-the-Chinese-really-hate-the-Vietnamese-If-yes-why Of course It also depends on each person. Like one Chinese in PDF, I forget his name, terriorts or terrain ...who always call Vietnamese as the monkey, Surely he hates Vietnamese.  For Vietnamese. This poll shows the Vietnamese's opinion about China from 200 people. You will see 53 persons who said they love China, 71 persons hat




e them. 4 per said they love but is becoming the hater, 27 per said they is becoming the lover, 79 per who don't care, Although Chinese give their threat to attack the island in SCS.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> The new thing with me, oh, I don't know, You were born in Vietnam. Ok, For the Vietnamese and Chinese. My opinion, Vietnamese have reason to hate Chinese but Chinese had no reason to hate Vietnamese. You can see the answer from Chinese in here https://www.quora.com/Do-the-Chinese-really-hate-the-Vietnamese-If-yes-why Of course It also depends on each person. Like one Chinese in PDF, I forget his name, terriorts or terrain ...who always call Vietnamese as the monkey, Surely he hates Vietnamese.  For Vietnamese. This poll shows the Vietnamese's opinion about China from 200 people. You will see 53 persons who said they love China, 71 persons hat
> 
> 
> 
> e them. 4 per said they love but is becoming the hater, 27 per said they is becoming the lover, 79 per who don't care, Although Chinese give their threat to attack the island in SCS.


Of course most Chinese would say never heard of a country called Vietnam. However I forget to remember the number of wars they staged against our country. I read reports how nice they treated the worst Japanese war criminals and how clean they polished the rifles of captured India army members. I would wish they treat us with similar nicety. In reality the PLA destroyed the last house, killed the last animal when withdrawing from VN at last major war.

Anyway vietnamese people look to the future, usually not care much of the past. if they behave like normal people all can be forgiven and forgotten. The first thing they must do is to throw the 9-lines into dust bin.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Of course most Chinese would say never heard of a country called Vietnam. However I forget to remember the number of wars and physical confrontation they staged against VN. 10 or more? I read reports how nice they treated the worst Japanese war criminals and how clean they polished the rifles of captured India army members. I would wish they treat us with similar nicety. In reality the PLA destroyed the last house, killed the last animal when withdrawing from VN at last major war.


the number of wars between VN and CN, The major reason because of their interests, It doesn't relate to hatred or not. eg: they hate Japan but can't defeat or launch a revenge toward Japan. You maybe get misunderstood between war by the hatred and war by the interests. they really want to kill all Japanese soldiers in WW2 but It cant. because they are weak at that time. Like the 731 unit experts were saved by US. they treated the worst Japanese soldiers well. It the first time I know.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> the number of wars between VN and CN, The major reason because of their interests, It doesn't relate to hatred or not. eg: they hate Japan but can't defeat or launch a revenge toward Japan. You maybe get misunderstood between war by the hatred and war by the interests. they really want to kill all Japanese soldiers in WW2 but It cants. because they are weak at that time. Like the 731 unit experts were saved by US. they treated the worst Japanese soldiers well. It the first time I know.


Actually we shouldn't care whether they like us or not or they hate or love the japanese, that is not our business. The only thing we care is of developing a powerful army to annihilate anyone who attacks us.

I hate to see if a clown stages aggression by using pretext and excuse.

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## Viet

Visit of US landing ship USS San Diego to the bay










Unthinkable until recently now One step closer to a formal military alliance


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> The Khmer are easy to be manipulated. Look, Polpot and his murder gang staged an extreme form of Chinese style mass killing and cultural destruction. Cambodia's entire history, scripts, books including teachers were destroyed and butchered. Only the ancient inscriptions in temples remain. There was nothing left. Zero. Vietnam had rebuilt completely the entire system. Nevertheless the cambodians hate Vietnam. It is surreal. I am not sure who hates VN more: the Chinese or the Khmer?



Chinese (defense topic inclined) I have met and got to know in real life ...are somewhat wary/suspicious of Vietnam...but there is no deep-set hatred I would say. It probably stems from that they have grown their economy, power and success (esp as they perceive it) quite a lot.

As for Cambodia, its still very badly run and economically deprived country. Hun Sen himself was a K.R guy till he got purged by P. Pot and fled to Vietnam and then eventually Vietnamese intervention/occupation happened and thus he was seen as conducive to helping reset and reform VN-CAM relations....but ultimately to distract from his and Cambodia own inadequacies in leadership, economy etc....Vietnam inevitably becomes scapegoat...harness the same old easy populist policy. K.R afterall experimented with many ugly stupid policies (even within leftist framework) that many people do not know past the genocide and city-depopulation that happened....but the anti-Viet policy always was consistent one and always was popular....K.R never changed it for reason.

After all Champa was traditional enemy of Khmer...given Siam I think was made vassal/absorbed by Khmer at their zenith.....but Champa never was and handily gave them many crushing defeats. Because Cambodian have little to be proud of today (and modern era more generally), they look to this history to seek exclusive refuge, and thus same bogeymen and scapegoats are used (I have seen this phenomenon worldwide though). 

One Cambodian origin chap I know was bragging to me how developed and rich Cambodia was compared to Vietnam and Thailand...before Vietnam war really escalated and K.R came by....and that (pre-war 50s, early 60s etc) was thus somehow the inherent state of the peoples and today is just an aberration.

Best medicine is to let the reality continue to flourish I say....neutral people can judge for themselves.

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> Chinese (defense topic inclined) I have met and got to know in real life ...are somewhat wary/suspicious of Vietnam...but there is no deep-set hatred I would say. It probably stems from that they have grown their economy, power and success (esp as they perceive it) quite a lot.
> 
> As for Cambodia, its still very badly run and economically deprived country. Hun Sen himself was a K.R guy till he got purged by P. Pot and fled to Vietnam and then eventually Vietnamese intervention/occupation happened and thus he was seen as conducive to helping reset and reform VN-CAM relations....but ultimately to distract from his and Cambodia own inadequacies in leadership, economy etc....Vietnam inevitably becomes scapegoat...harness the same old easy populist policy. K.R afterall experimented with many ugly stupid policies (even within leftist framework) that many people do not know past the genocide and city-depopulation that happened....but the anti-Viet policy always was consistent one and always was popular....K.R never changed it for reason.
> 
> After all Champa was traditional enemy of Khmer...given Siam I think was made vassal/absorbed by Khmer at their zenith.....but Champa never was and handily gave them many crushing defeats. Because Cambodian have little to be proud of today (and modern era more generally), they look to this history to seek exclusive refuge, and thus same bogeymen and scapegoats are used (I have seen this phenomenon worldwide though).
> 
> One Cambodian origin chap I know was bragging to me how developed and rich Cambodia was compared to Vietnam and Thailand...before Vietnam war really escalated and K.R came by....and that (pre-war 50s, early 60s etc) was thus somehow the inherent state of the peoples and today is just an aberration.
> 
> Best medicine is to let the reality continue to flourish I say....neutral people can judge for themselves.


You know Cambodia well, more than knowledge of one normal Vietnamese. One interesting story about Cambodian. It is they and Thailand people look down each other. One Cambodian said to me. He said: Sure, they hate Vietnamese, but when he said the Vietnamese grabbed Cambodian land in the past, Vietnamese would said: Yes, we are, If Cambodia wants to regain, Pls attack. But for the Thailand people, they would say: No, It is their historical territories. So hypocrite, Thailand also use Khmer culture to enrich their nation

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## Viet

@


Nilgiri said:


> Chinese (defense topic inclined) I have met and got to know in real life ...are somewhat wary/suspicious of Vietnam...but there is no deep-set hatred I would say. It probably stems from that they have grown their economy, power and success (esp as they perceive it) quite a lot.
> 
> As for Cambodia, its still very badly run and economically deprived country. Hun Sen himself was a K.R guy till he got purged by P. Pot and fled to Vietnam and then eventually Vietnamese intervention/occupation happened and thus he was seen as conducive to helping reset and reform VN-CAM relations....but ultimately to distract from his and Cambodia own inadequacies in leadership, economy etc....Vietnam inevitably becomes scapegoat...harness the same old easy populist policy. K.R afterall experimented with many ugly stupid policies (even within leftist framework) that many people do not know past the genocide and city-depopulation that happened....but the anti-Viet policy always was consistent one and always was popular....K.R never changed it for reason.
> 
> After all Champa was traditional enemy of Khmer...given Siam I think was made vassal/absorbed by Khmer at their zenith.....but Champa never was and handily gave them many crushing defeats. Because Cambodian have little to be proud of today (and modern era more generally), they look to this history to seek exclusive refuge, and thus same bogeymen and scapegoats are used (I have seen this phenomenon worldwide though).
> 
> One Cambodian origin chap I know was bragging to me how developed and rich Cambodia was compared to Vietnam and Thailand...before Vietnam war really escalated and K.R came by....and that (pre-war 50s, early 60s etc) was thus somehow the inherent state of the peoples and today is just an aberration.
> 
> Best medicine is to let the reality continue to flourish I say....neutral people can judge for themselves.


Nations rise and fall, territories changing hands. Rome and Carthago could not coexist.

China under the Tang is said to be the most powerful country on this planet, with Vietnam to be a part of. But with the fall of the Tang and with VN plitting up from China, the days of Cambodia as land power and Champa as sea power were numbered by the rise of Vietnam as dominant military power.

In old books Vietnamese people called the Chinese as men of the Tang.

The most funny thing is Chinese sometimes blame the Vietnamese copying their language, culture and customs, but forget we had been Chinese for 1,000 years. Vietnam independence movement plitting up from China has much to do with different worldview between Vietnamese and Chinese that can't be overcome.

The Chinese seem can never accept the loss of VN hence the numerous wars, constantly keeping a high level of military pressure that continue today.

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## xiao qi

45 years from the Second Battle of Quang Tri began on June 28 and lasted 81 days until September 16, 1972, when the Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN) defeated the North Vietnamese at the ancient citadel of Quảng Trị (Vietnamese: Thành cổ Quảng Trị) and recaptured most of Quảng Trị Province. This battle is one of the fiercest battles in the world. Compare to battle with Chinese in Sino - Vietnam War, This battle from Vietnamese-Sino War is same the breakfast, It is the reason why In Vietnam, people rarely mention to the battle with Chinese.In the battle of Quang Trị, US dropped more than 120.000 tons bombs same as 7 atomic bombs in Hiroshima, 950.000 shells artillery.

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## warzone

xiao qi said:


> You know Cambodia well, more than knowledge of one normal Vietnamese. One interesting story about Cambodian. It is they and Thailand people look down each other. One Cambodian said to me. He said: Sure, they hate Vietnamese, but when he said the Vietnamese grabbed Cambodian land in the past, Vietnamese would said: Yes, we are, If Cambodia wants to regain, Pls attack. But for the Thailand people, they would say: No, It is their historical territories. So hypocrite, Thailand also use Khmer culture to enrich their nation


The French name Indochina (that included Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) for a reason, because it 2 civilizations. Viet Nam have Chinese influence for it Chinese Buddhism, chopstick, wok cooking, chinese writting, Chinese calendar, ect.. Cambodia and Laos have Indian influence with Indian Buddhism, eat with hands, wearing sarong, mortar and pestle paste cooking, ect.... Both the Thai and the Viets took some lands from Cambodia but at the end of the day, the Cambodian will always hate more the Viets because we don't share the same culture and physically different. Cambodia will always get along better with the Thai and Laotians because they share the same Buddhism branch and also a lot of culture similarities. Every human being always love someone with similarities but hate strangers that doesn't have anything in common

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## Carlosa

Vietnamese media, citing Jane's, say Hanoi's getting 24 V-22 Ospreys worth $3bln from the US. First two to be delivered in 2018 #military

I'm not sure this is a good idea, they are very accident prone and very expensive to maintain.

Maybe ok to airlift troops to the islands in quire a fast way if the range is enough.

This also means VN is getting the stuff that it needs to confront China. But 3 billion....... hmmmmm I would do other things with that money, but what do I know anyway.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Vietnamese media, citing Jane's, say Hanoi's getting 24 V-22 Ospreys worth $3bln from the US. First two to be delivered in 2018 #military
> 
> I'm not sure this is a good idea, they are very accident prone and very expensive to maintain.
> 
> Maybe ok to airlift troops to the islands in quire a fast way if the range is enough.
> 
> This also means VN is getting the stuff that it needs to confront China. But 3 billion....... hmmmmm I would do other things with that money, but what do I know anyway.


I rather see we would acquire a squadron of Aegis air defense destroyers. $3b is lots of bucks. Donald Trump will give us a loan I believe. But we don't have any aircraft carrier now so how to carry the choppers at highsea? Or the Japanese is nicer than expected and deliver us with one or two carriers. Military buildup costs money. We could soon say hello to the bushido fighters of Japan. What would you buy instead?

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## Viet

ChineseToTheBone said:


> Surely you must realize that ASEAN does not have true unity since neighbouring members have competing interests with one another such as disputed waters.


However nobody threatens anyone with war. Unlike China that threatens PN, VN, UK and India with war in short succession.


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I rather see we would acquire a squadron of Aegis air defense destroyers. $3b is lots of bucks. Donald Trump will give us a loan I believe. But we don't have any aircraft carrier now so how to carry the choppers at highsea? Or the Japanese is nicer than expected and deliver us with one or two carriers. Military buildup costs money. We could soon say hello to the bushido fighters of Japan. What would you buy instead?
> 
> View attachment 417350
> View attachment 417352
> View attachment 417358



Need to get confirmation that this is true, i got the info from tweeter, but i have not seen anything else yet.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Need to get confirmation that this is true, i got the info from tweeter, but i have not seen anything else yet.


Ok let's keep posting. Exciting times ahead. Ah the military chief (he looks grim) is accompanied by members of general staff of all three branches the ground force, the airforce and the navy plus the coast guard.


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## Viet

Industry
*Vietnam expands MRO capability to support Sukhoi fighters*
*Jon Grevatt* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
09 August 2017

The Vietnam People’s Air Force (VPAF) has advanced local capability to support its fleets of Russian-built fighter aircraft partly through support provided by Ukraine, state-run media in the Southeast Asia country have reported.

The VPAF’s primary maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facility is known as the A32 factory, which is based in Da Nang on Vietnam’s east coast. According to recent reports, the A32 factory has received technical assistance from Ukraine as part of a series of facility upgrades.

The A32 factory is able to carry out extensive support and modernisation to its Russian-made combat aircraft as well as their onboard systems and engines.

*Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options:　**ihs.com/contact*

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> Best medicine is to let the reality continue to flourish I say....neutral people can judge for themselves.



In Vietnamese Television station now is playing an Indian film called as " The 8 years old Bride" and It gets more attention from Vietnamese women. Do you know about this film @Nilgiri ? I guess Vietnamese government is trying to import Indian film and movie to replace for the Chinese films. A good way to expand Indian culture to Vietnam, and open the path for Indian product. You know Korea is a good example to sell their product through the film in oversea. This film I guess It was donated by the Indian government to strengthen the relationship between two countries.

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## Viet

*Increasing Vietnam strategic petroleum reserves *

Big "thank you" to our new Arab friend. Kuwait plans to construct a new petrochemical complex and to double the current crude oil processing at VN refinery from 200,000 to 400,000 barrels per day.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/content/376266-kuwait-set-to-boost-oil-output-capacity-from-2030


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## Viet

Rosneft drills for oil more in Vietnam eez waters by next year. Let's see whether the Chinese will threaten the Russians with war.


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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> In Vietnamese Television station now is playing an Indian film called as " The 8 years old Bride" and It gets more attention from Vietnamese women. Do you know about this film @Nilgiri ? I guess Vietnamese government is trying to import Indian film and movie to replace for the Chinese films. A good way to expand Indian culture to Vietnam, and open the path for Indian product. You know Korea is a good example to sell their product through the film in oversea. This film I guess It was donated by the Indian government to strengthen the relationship between two countries.



You mean this TV show?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balika_Vadhu

_In Vietnam, the drama began airing under the title, Cô Dâu 8 Tuổi (8-Year-Old Bride) on TodayTV from 11 November 2014 and ended on 11 February 2017. The drama has enjoyed immense popularity in Vietnam and has been the number one show in the country since its premiere.[6] The show was the ninth most searched item in 2015 in Vietnam on Google as confirmed by the annual Google Trends end-of-year report.[7] The popularity of Balika Vadhu is part of a wider appeal towards Asian dramas in Vietnam, which experts say have a "cultural edge over their Western counterparts" due to cultural similarities that are found in soap operas imported from South Asia, Southeast Asia and East Asia_

I have heard of it, have not really watched any of it though. It seems to have won many awards...I will give it a try when I get some time 

You are correct though, I hope to see much more cultural exchange between the two countries....Korea definitely good example of how soft power permeated with TV shows and movies very far and wide, esp in Asia.

Can you suggest me any of the best Vietnamese made TV shows/movies that have been dubbed/subbed into English?

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## AViet

xiao qi said:


> In Vietnamese Television station now is playing an Indian film called as " The 8 years old Bride" and It gets more attention from Vietnamese women. Do you know about this film @Nilgiri ? I guess Vietnamese government is trying to import Indian film and movie to replace for the Chinese films. A good way *to expand Indian culture to Vietnam*, and open the path for Indian product. You know Korea is a good example to sell their product through the film in oversea. This film I guess It was donated by the Indian government to strengthen the relationship between two countries.



To import such culture to Vietnam? To kill people who eat beef? To defecate openly on the streets? to live like sub-humans in the sea of slums in every Indian big cities, to rape tourists and to re-produce like rabbits?

Vietnam is one of the most civilized country on earth. Most of our bad behaviours are rooted from the low standard of living and century-long wars, which can be improved with time and when people getting richer. But some cultures can never been improved.

I doubt you are serious.

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## xiao qi

AViet said:


> To import such culture to Vietnam? To kill people who eat beef? To defecate openly on the streets? to live like sub-humans in the sea of slums in every Indian big cities, to rape tourists and to re-produce like rabbits?
> 
> *Vietnam is one of the most civilized country on earth.* Most of our bad behaviours are rooted from the low standard of living and century-long wars, which can be improved with time and when people getting richer. But some cultures can never been improved.
> 
> I doubt you are serious.



What??  I admit the Indian culture is not really good in some aspects and need to improve. Vietnam is just a third world country and wants to get the higher location in the world we need to learn anything ( which we suppose it is good to Vietnam) from Chinese, Japanese, Korean..not except Indian. Do you know Sundar Pichai, He inspired motivation to a lot of Vietnamese technology engineer. Vietnam is not good like you said "*most civilized country on earth" *It is so ridiculous when every day the killing, the raping...are still happening. Your reason you give to explains for Vietnamese crime, uhm, Not convince anyone. Instead of insulting others, you should give the question why we don't learn the good thing from them and eliminate their bad things. Dear

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## AViet

xiao qi said:


> What??  I admit the Indian culture is not really good in some aspects and need to improve. Vietnam is just a third world country and wants to get the higher location in the world we need to learn anything ( which we suppose it is good to Vietnam) from Chinese, Japanese, Korean..not except Indian. Do you know Sundar Pichai, He inspired motivation to a lot of Vietnamese technology engineer. Vietnam is not good like you said "*most civilized country on earth" *It is so ridiculous when every day the killing, the raping...are still happening. Your reason you give to explains for Vietnamese crime, uhm, Not convince anyone. Instead of insulting others, you should give the question why we don't learn the good thing from them and eliminate their bad things. Dear



What I say is from broader perspective, not on daily issues. Killing and raping happens every where, and as a poor country, what Vietnam has achieved on this regards is among the best, comperatively.

I have made my research on culture of many countries and hopefully, when I retire, I can have free time to publish something about people and cultures, although my background is more about technical and management.

The main difference between my viewpoint, which is inspired from Lew Kuan Yew, and western liberals one is that people are inherently different and races are different. I am not racist in the sense that I hate people based on their race, but I believe races are not the same. Something cannot be changed.

The more I know about culture of other countries in the world, the more I think our culture is superior. As a manager in one of the biggest organization in Vietnam, I have met a lot of people from different countries with different races. I have applied my theory into management and can be proud to say, my staff are the best managed in whole organization.

Yes, Vietnam should learn a lot from other countries, even from India. Every culture have something which others can learn. But not in the sense what our Indian friends on this forum like to brag about.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> What??  I admit the Indian culture is not really good in some aspects and need to improve. Vietnam is just a third world country and wants to get the higher location in the world we need to learn anything ( which we suppose it is good to Vietnam) from Chinese, Japanese, Korean..not except Indian. Do you know Sundar Pichai, He inspired motivation to a lot of Vietnamese technology engineer. Vietnam is not good like you said "*most civilized country on earth" *It is so ridiculous when every day the killing, the raping...are still happening. Your reason you give to explains for Vietnamese crime, uhm, Not convince anyone. Instead of insulting others, you should give the question why we don't learn the good thing from them and eliminate their bad things. Dear



India, together with China and Egypt are the 3 ancient civilizations that had massive ancient knowledge and wisdom, much of which we are still trying to figure out. They can be considered the 3 root civilizations of the human race. Only ignorant / uneducated people can ignore that.

Some samples of the contributions of Indian civilization:
What the ancients knew - India 




Science of Time in Hinduism | Scientific India | Part 1 




The magic of Vedic math - Gaurav Tekriwal. 




BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-1 of 2 




BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-2 of 2. 




Sanskrit Language: The Most Scientific, Ancient, Spiritual - *Full* 




Brilliant stuff !! Why Cow is Holy ? - By London Based Physicist Jay Lakhani https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRZzvbhc7ww

Extraordinary Facts of Vedas That Made Western Scientists Spellbound || Source of Inventions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_dEgFdjoM

@Nilgiri @Farhan Bohra

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## xiao qi

AViet said:


> What I say is from broader perspective, not on daily issues. Killing and raping happens every where, and as a poor country, what Vietnam has achieved on this regards is among the best, comperatively.
> 
> I have made my research on culture of many countries and hopefully, when I retire, I can have free time to publish something about people and cultures, although my background is more about technical and management.
> 
> The main difference between my viewpoint, which is inspired from Lew Kuan Yew, and western liberals one is that people are inherently different and races are different. I am not racist in the sense that I hate people based on their race, but I believe races are not the same. Something cannot be changed.
> 
> The more I know about culture of other countries in the world, the more I think our culture is superior. As a manager in one of the biggest organization in Vietnam, I have met a lot of people from different countries with different races. I have applied my theory into management and can be proud to say, my staff are the best managed in whole organization.
> 
> Yes, Vietnam should learn a lot from other countries, even from India. Every culture have something which others can learn. *But not in the sense what our Indian friends on this forum like to brag about.*


What are things the Indian friends on this forum like to brag? What I see about Indian friend on PDF. It is They want to make friend with Vietnam and have the friendly eyes toward Vietnam, Can you give the Indian name who talk shit and insult Vietnam on this forum for nothing? We even had not war with them, and I don't see any Indian who insult Vietnam. You always said the Vietnam and Vietnamese are superior to them but In fact, You piss off your leg. Are you really Vietnamese? If you are really good like Vietnamese you said, you should inbox me to discuss Indian culture instead of insulting them on the PDF. Proud about your nation is good but insulting another country to prove your country is superior is not good, Dear. Add more: Vietnamese culture is poor, not superior than anyone, in the page, Nigiri asked me some films of Vietnamese but Im really shy when I dont know how to answer him. So sad. But true

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> What are things the Indian friends on this forum like to brag? What I see about Indian friend on PDF. It is They want to make friend with Vietnam and have the friendly eyes toward Vietnam, Can you give the Indian name who talk shit and insult Vietnam on this forum for nothing? We even had not war with them, and I don't see any Indian who insult Vietnam. You always said the Vietnam and Vietnamese are superior to them but In fact, You piss off your leg. Are you really Vietnamese? If you are really good like Vietnamese you said, you should inbox me to discuss Indian culture instead of insulting them on the PDF. Proud about your nation is good but insulting another country to prove your country is superior is not good, Dear.



Sister Xiao, from your profile, I see that you are 25 years old and Aviet is 45 years old, but it seems like you are the older adult and he is the child that needs you to teach him a few things.

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## Svantana

Carlosa said:


> India, together with China and Egypt are the 3 ancient civilizations that had massive ancient knowledge and wisdom, much of which we are still trying to figure out. They can be considered the 3 root civilizations of the human race. Only ignorant / uneducated people can ignore that.
> 
> Some samples of the contributions of Indian civilization:
> What the ancients knew - India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Science of Time in Hinduism | Scientific India | Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The magic of Vedic math - Gaurav Tekriwal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-1 of 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-2 of 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanskrit Language: The Most Scientific, Ancient, Spiritual - *Full*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant stuff !! Why Cow is Holy ? - By London Based Physicist Jay Lakhani https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRZzvbhc7ww
> 
> Extraordinary Facts of Vedas That Made Western Scientists Spellbound || Source of Inventions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_dEgFdjoM
> 
> @Nilgiri @Farhan Bohra



Indian civilization greatly affects almost the entire Asean civilization

Map of Greater Indian





Indian cultural zone Dark Orange The Indian subcontinent Light Orange Other countries culturally linked to India; notably Burma, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Southern Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, and Indonesia (excluding the easternmost Indonesia region where Indian influence is non-existent). Yellow Regions not included in Indian cultural zone, but with considerable current or historical Indian cultural influence, notably Afghanistan, Tibet autonomous region, Yunnan province, and the Philippines.





Hinduism expansion in Asia, from its heartland in Indian Subcontinent, to the rest of Asia, especially Southeast Asia, started circa 1st century marked with the establishment of early Hindu settlements and polities in Southeast Asia.

Mark of Indian Influence in Indonesia




Ancient Hindu temple of Prambanan




Ancient Buddhis Monument of Borrobudur 
and many more

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> What are things the Indian friends on this forum like to brag? What I see about Indian friend on PDF. It is They want to make friend with Vietnam and have the friendly eyes toward Vietnam, Can you give the Indian name who talk shit and insult Vietnam on this forum for nothing? We even had not war with them, and I don't see any Indian who insult Vietnam. You always said the Vietnam and Vietnamese are superior to them but In fact, You piss off your leg. Are you really Vietnamese? If you are really good like Vietnamese you said, you should inbox me to discuss Indian culture instead of insulting them on the PDF. Proud about your nation is good but insulting another country to prove your country is superior is not good, Dear. Add more: Vietnamese culture is poor, not superior than anyone, in the page, Nigiri asked me some films of Vietnamese but Im really shy when I dont know how to answer him. So sad. But true


VN policy toward India is driven by strategic interest so India toward Vietnam. nothing wrong about it. Nations cooperate if their interests are allied. In respect to culture, well VN is the only the country in entire the region that is sinized, while the rest is indinized. however common culture and custom never hinders conflicts, confrontations and wars we haven seen much in Europe or between Vietnam and China.

Look at the tension with the Chinese. they threaten us with war if we continue to drill in our international recognized EEZ waters because our work "violates" their claim. you can see how much they care about good neighbourhood and international laws. VN backs down because we are not ready yet. but if anyone knows VN habit we will know we will come back. at the recent Asean summit in Manila, the Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi says: “At this time, if you ask who is carrying out reclamation, it is definitely not China – perhaps it is the country that brings up the issue that is doing it.” He apparently accused of VN doing land reclamation. sure we do, but Wang Yi lies as satellite images reveal. unfortunately the new leadership in the Philippines support the Chinese aggression for a handful yuan.

the Chinese perform massive land reclamation in the Paracels, stationing all sorts of defence and offensive weapons on the islands with fighter aircraft capable to launch aerial attack on Vietnamese mainland.

we need to respond.

https://amti.csis.org/paracels-beijings-other-buildup/?block1

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## Viet

_An interesting article in Global Times, the mouthpiece of CCP China Communist Party, revealing Vietnam secret influence on one of the most influential US Think Tanks: Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS)._



http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1058196.shtml

HOME >> WORLD
* Report claims Hanoi's influence in shaping think tank's agenda in Washington *
Source:Globaltimes.cn Published: 2017/7/26 19:45:18


_*Editor's note:* A report entitled "How Hanoi's Hidden Hand Helps Shape a Think Tank's Agenda in Washington" was posted by Greg Rushford on July 11 on www.rushfordreport.com. _


Next Tuesday, July 18, will be another big day for the Center for Strategic and International Studies, which has been one of Washington's most prestigious think tanks for more than a half century. The Seventh Annual CSIS South China Sea Conference, as have its previous incarnations dating to 2011, will once again draw public attention to Chinese assertiveness in the South China Sea. Speakers with impressive national security credentials will be flown in from Singapore, Vietnam, the Philippines, and elsewhere in Asia. They will be joined by leading American authorities from such respected institutions as the U.S. Naval War College and its Center for Naval Warfare Studies. Sen. Cory Gardner, a Republican from Colorado who chairs the Foreign Relations Committee's Asian panel, will kick off the day with a speech on "Renewing American Leadership in the Asia-Pacific."

So who has been generously paying for conferences aimed at encouraging the importance of renewing American leadership in Asia? CSIS President and CEO John Hamre has been ducking the question for the past six years. Last July, for instance, CSIS informed the public that its sixth annual South China Sea conference had been "made possible by general support to CSIS."

That's not only too vague to convey real meaning, but a flat-out "misrepresentation," according to a source who prefers to remain anonymous. To substantiate that charge, the source has provided me internal "Confidential" CSIS documents that show exactly where the money has been coming from.

The memoranda, e-mails, and other records reveal that Hamre has had a secret angel — in Hanoi.

And the angel has had an important say in who has been invited to the annual CSIS maritime conferences, and who hasn't. CSIS's secret benefactor is an arm of Vietnam's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The unit, called the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam, reports to Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh and the Communist Party, according to its official website. Pham Binh Minh, currently Vietnam's deputy prime minister, is a senior Party member who has served as foreign minister since 2011.

Since 2012, Vietnam's government has given CSIS more than $450,000 to hold the annual South China Sea conferences. Over the years, CSIS has added another $55,000 from the think tank's internal accounts, the sources of which are not identified in the documents I have been shown. CSIS chief Hamre declined to respond to persistent requests for his comment.

*Questions about transparency*

This is not the first time that questions have been raised in the press about CSIS and shadowy contributions from foreign sources. On September 7, 2014, for instance, the New York Times published an article headlined "Foreign Powers Buy Influence at Think Tanks." Reporters Eric Lipton, Brooke Williams and Nicholas Confessore tracked millions of dollars from foreign governments that have been flowing into influential Washington think tanks, including CSIS, in recent years. The murky money "has set off troubling questions about intellectual freedom," they noted, citing instances of scholars whose opinions seemed to be unduly influenced by financial considerations.

In response to the inquiries from the Times, CSIS agreed to release a list of more than a dozen foreign government donors including Japan, Sweden and Turkey. But the disclosure from CSIS chief Hamre was semi-transparent at best. CSIS "declined to disclose details of its contracts with those nations or actual donation amounts," the newspaper reported.

Currently, the CSIS website discloses eleven foreign governmental donors. The United Arab Emirates, for instance, has contributed "$500,000 and up," for unspecified "regional studies." Saudi Arabia and Turkey have chipped somewhere between $100,000 - $499,999," again unspecified. And donations between $5,000 - $99,999 have come from five other governments including Kazakhstan and Germany. No contributions are now listed from the government of Vietnam.

*Hanoi's Hidden Hand*

That some Vietnamese money has been given to CSIS, however, is noted elsewhere on the CSIS site — tucked away under gifts received from 48 foundations, non-governmental organizations, and "Nonprofit Donors." The Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam is listed as having donated at least $5,000 to CSIS, but not more than $99,999. What the DAV is, or what the money was intended for, other than the usual unspecified "regional studies," is not disclosed.

There is nothing anywhere on the CSIS site to indicate that the DAV is an official arm of Vietnam's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Nothing to suggest that the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam advises the foreign minister "in the formulation, planning and implementation of the foreign policy of the State," as it notes on its own website. To glean that DAV also participates in "academic exchanges" with research institutions, inside Vietnam and overseas, one has to go to the DAV website, where CSIS is not mentioned.

The official connections between CSIS officials and the Vietnamese government, according to the documentation I have been shown, date to April 25, 2012. That's the day the first memorandum of understanding between CSIS and a Vietnamese diplomat was inked. Ernest Bower signed on behalf of CSIS as the think tank's senior adviser and director of its Southeast Asia Program. Since 2011, Bower has also been the president and CEO of the BowerGroupAsia, an international consulting firm that has offices in Vietnam and other Asian countries.

Tung Nguyen Vu, who in 2012 was the deputy chief of mission of the Vietnamese embassy in Washington, signed on behalf of DAV. Hanoi contributed $129,236 to hold the second CSIS conference that July. CSIS added another $20,000.

Diplomat Tung — who is also referred to as Nguyen Vu Tung — is now a senior official with DAV; he appeared on a panel at the 2016 CSIS South China Sea conference, held last July 12. And at next Tuesday's seventh CSIS event, Dang Cam Tu, the deputy director of the DAV's Institute for Strategic Studies, will appear on a panel moderated by CSIS senior adviser Murray Hiebert.

*Conflicted interests*

Hiebert is also a senior adviser to the BowerGroupAsia. His work as a private business consultant does not appear on his CSIS bio, nor does he does not disclose his corporate affiliations in his public CSIS appearances. Hiebert has declined to explain his dual roles, and CSIS chief Hamre and the think tank's board of directors have also remained silent.

While the contractual arrangements with Hanoi specified that both CSIS and the Vietnamese would "together draft the agenda and the list of participants," CSIS also asserted its rights to full editorial independence and its "total discretion and final decision-making authority."

Those rights were put to the test in the days before last year's conference, which was held on July 12, 2016. That same day, an international tribunal in The Hague issued a ruling that determined that China has been acting in violation of its international legal obligations by destroying coral reefs to build weaponized artificial islands in waters with the Philippines' exclusive economic zone — putting both Manila and Hanoi in range of Chinese jet bombers.

*The Paymasters' Power Play*

Given the likelihood of intense public interest in the wake of the tribunal's ruling, CSIS staffers Murray Hiebert and Greg Poling asked China's ambassador in Washington, Cui Tiankai, to speak at the conference. Considering the beating that Beijing would be taking that day in light of the legal ruling, Hiebert and Poling thought that was only fair, and said so in their e-mail correspondence.

Poling informed Thuy on July 7 that he had heard from the Chinese embassy, and that Cui was willing to speak.

Thuy hit the roof.

"Murray, we cannot agree with the way you handle the conference," the Vietnamese diplomat informed Hiebert in one July 8, 2016 e-mail. "You invited Chinese Amb without consultation with us and now saying that you cannot disinvite him. Please understand that to create a forum for promoting Chinese propaganda is not our purpose."

Hiebert shot back: "Our goal is not to create a form for Chinese propaganda, but to create a credible forum that shows China's unacceptable behavior in the SCS [South China Sea]. Amb Cui won't convince anyone that justice is on his side. Allowing him to speak will give our all day event and the event's sharp criticism of China much more credibility without detracting from our message."

Finally, after the flurry of e-mails with the CSIS staffers had reached an impasse, Thuy put his foot down. "Murray, not allowing Chinese Amb to deliver his speech is not only my personal opinion but a strict requirement from our 'sponsors' and I don't have chance to convince them anymore."

Faced with the implacable attitude of the men with the money in Hanoi, Hiebert and Poling crafted a compromise position. "Thuy, Amb. Cui will not speak at the SCS conference tomorrow," Hiebert informed his Vietnamese benefactor on July 11. "Instead, he will speak later in the day after the conference has ended at the invitation of the China Power Program, which is not related to the SE Asia program that organized the conference."

As Hiebert had promised Thuy, the July 12 conference that the Vietnamese government had paid for adjourned at 4:30 p.m. Fifteen minutes later, at 4:45 p.m., the Chinese ambassador delivered his remarks, which were live-streamed.

There is an irony to this story. CSIS has earned genuine respect in leading foreign-affairs circles for its success in focusing the American public's attention on China's misconduct in the South China Sea. The rub is the evasiveness concerning who was paying the bills. That has been compounded by the business affiliations of CSIS officials who were raising money from the Vietnamese government at the same time they were promoting private business dealings in Vietnam.

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## ChineseToTheBone

Viet said:


> However nobody threatens anyone with war. Unlike China that threatens PN, VN, UK and India with war in short succession.


Random contributors writing for the Global Times can hardly be considered authoritative.


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## Carlosa

sinait said:


> View attachment 417677
> 
> Then Indians should not keep bragging about Supa Powa 2012, Mars probe etc. etc., and provoking neighbors for war.
> .



A hear a lot of talking about Indian bragging but frankly, I often go to the Indian forum and I don't see that, what I see is mostly very nice people, very well informed and very courteous and polite. The bragging and the trolling that I usually see comes from the chinese members and one particular chinese from Singapore. 

Its ok if Indian people brag about their achievements because, frankly, they have achievements to brag about that most other countries could only wish to have. Of course they also have to accept their failings and limitations and I see that many of them do.

Again, India is a country of contrast, I've been there, I've seen both sides, I tend to focus on the positive because I've seen a lot of it and I like it a lot. I understand that you have a different focus and perspective. No problem.

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## sinait

Carlosa said:


> A hear a lot of talking about Indian bragging but frankly, I often go to the Indian forum and I don't see that, what I see is mostly very nice people, very well informed and very courteous and polite. The bragging and the trolling that I usually see comes from the chinese members and one particular chinese from Singapore.
> 
> Its ok if Indian people brag about their achievements because, frankly, they have achievements to brag about that most other countries could only wish to have. Of course they also have to accept their failings and limitations and I see that many of them do.
> 
> Again, India is a country of contrast, I've been there, I've seen both sides, I tend to focus on the positive because I've seen a lot of it and I like it a lot. I understand that you have a different focus and perspective. No problem.


Bragging means talking of accomplishments before it is realized or accomplished. You see a lot of that in the development of Tejas, Arjun etc. etc.. Their Russian second hand aircraft carrier is supposedly the best in the world.
Blowing up an innocent Thai fishing trawler and they were boasting and celebrating blowing up a pirate mothership until a lone survivor exposed their lie. 
Shameless Indians lap up the congratulations for a tragedy by them.
.

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## Carlosa

sinait said:


> Bragging means talking of accomplishments before it is realized or accomplished. You see a lot of that in the development of Tejas, Arjun etc. etc.. Their Russian second hand aircraft carrier is supposedly the best in the world.
> Blowing up an innocent Thai fishing trawler and they were boasting and celebrating blowing up a pirate mothership until a lone survivor exposed their lie.
> Shameless Indians lap up the congratulations for a tragedy by them.
> .



Well, I see both sides of the Tejas issue, It is an accomplishment in a way since some good tech has been created and it is a failure at the same time since it has taken so long. I see people from both perspectives. Come on, its not such a big deal, you would see the same outpouring if Singapore were to be the one developing the Tejas, surely the same if Vietnam were to be the one. My position is that the Tejas should be a technology demonstrator. Myself, I'm not a fan of it, I see it as too small, too low range, too few hard points. All that is ok as direct replacement for a MIG-21, but I think these days what is required needs to be much better than a equivalent of a MIG-21.

The Arjun is actually not a bad tank, but it also took forever, but again, if you choose to focus on tech accomplishments, there are quite a few good things about the Arjun, but you can also choose to focus on the negative side of it. There is always going to be a polarity.

We all know that in some areas, India's worst enemy is India. Their bureaucracy is legendary for delaying things for ever and also for their corruption.

You can always find failures and bad things in any country, it all depends on what you choose to focus on. Only recently the Indonesians shot at a Vietnamese fishing boat and wounded 4 people. Are we going to focus on one particular incident and make Indonesia an evil country?

Lets be reasonable and a bit more balanced.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Carlosa said:


> Well, I see both sides of the Tejas issue, It is an accomplishment in a way since some good tech has been created and it is a failure at the same time since it has taken so long. I see people from both perspectives. Come on, its not such a big deal, you would see the same outpouring if Singapore were to be the one developing the Tejas, surely the same if Vietnam were to be the one. My position is that the Tejas should be a technology demonstrator. Myself, I'm not a fan of it, I see it as too small, too low range, too few hard points. All that is ok as direct replacement for a MIG-21, but I think these days what is required needs to be much better than a equivalent of a MIG-21.
> 
> The Arjun is actually not a bad tank, but it also took forever, but again, if you choose to focus on tech accomplishments, there are quite a few good things about the Arjun, but you can also choose to focus on the negative side of it. There is always going to be a polarity.
> 
> We all know that in some areas, India's worst enemy is India. Their bureaucracy is legendary for delaying things for ever and also for their corruption.
> 
> You can always find failures and bad things in any country, it all depends on what you choose to focus on. Only recently the Indonesians shot at a Vietnamese fishing boat and wounded 4 people. Are we going to focus on one particular incident and make Indonesia an evil country?
> 
> Lets be reasonable and a bit more balanced.


All of em would have been good if they actually worked.
LCA is still not operational!

Arjun = only 11-24 produced... 70% imported,suffers design flaws and is less than capable infront of all modern tanks and remains grounded..



Carlosa said:


> India, together with China and Egypt are the 3 ancient civilizations that had massive ancient knowledge and wisdom, much of which we are still trying to figure out. They can be considered the 3 root civilizations of the human race. Only ignorant / uneducated people can ignore that.
> 
> Some samples of the contributions of Indian civilization:
> What the ancients knew - India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Science of Time in Hinduism | Scientific India | Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The magic of Vedic math - Gaurav Tekriwal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-1 of 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-2 of 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanskrit Language: The Most Scientific, Ancient, Spiritual - *Full*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant stuff !! Why Cow is Holy ? - By London Based Physicist Jay Lakhani https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRZzvbhc7ww
> 
> Extraordinary Facts of Vedas That Made Western Scientists Spellbound || Source of Inventions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_dEgFdjoM
> 
> @Nilgiri @Farhan Bohra


Im sorry but do u even know where IVC is situated or where its main cities are situated? or perhaps where the ancient Taxila univ is or from where great mathematicians like Chankya or Panini originated from?

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## Carlosa

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Im sorry but do u even know where IVC is situated or where its main cities are situated? or perhaps where the ancient Taxila univ is or from where great mathematicians like Chankya or Panini originated from?



I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.

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## sinait

Carlosa said:


> Well, I see both sides of the Tejas issue, It is an accomplishment in a way since some good tech has been created and it is a failure at the same time since it has taken so long. I see people from both perspectives. Come on, its not such a big deal, you would see the same outpouring if Singapore were to be the one developing the Tejas, surely the same if Vietnam were to be the one. My position is that the Tejas should be a technology demonstrator. Myself, I'm not a fan of it, I see it as too small, too low range, too few hard points. All that is ok as direct replacement for a MIG-21, but I think these days what is required needs to be much better than a equivalent of a MIG-21.
> 
> The Arjun is actually not a bad tank, but it also took forever, but again, if you choose to focus on tech accomplishments, there are quite a few good things about the Arjun, but you can also choose to focus on the negative side of it. There is always going to be a polarity.
> 
> We all know that in some areas, India's worst enemy is India. Their bureaucracy is legendary for delaying things for ever and also for their corruption.
> 
> You can always find failures and bad things in any country, it all depends on what you choose to focus on. Only recently the Indonesians shot at a Vietnamese fishing boat and wounded 4 people. Are we going to focus on one particular incident and make Indonesia an evil country?
> 
> Lets be reasonable and a bit more balanced.


There are more than 1 bad incident that Indonesia did.
Off my mind are a few examples:
Konfrontasi(or Confrontation, 1963–1966) when Indonesia attacked tiny Singapore in an undeclared war.
Genocide of communists in 1965.
Genocide of Indonesian Chinese in 1998.
Smog in Singapore and Malaysia every year from vegetation clearing by burning in Indonesia.

I think we are all very clear what constitute bragging and India.
Vietnam celebrating their achievement in Pisa test and International Maths Olympiad is not bragging.
India with their constant claims for decades that their GDP is overtaking China is bragging.
India on their ancient Verdic maths and Verdic science is bragging.

East Asians are good in Maths and Science that are essential in Engineering and Weapons development.
So far I observed, Singapore and Vietnam don't brag like the Indians do.
I base my observations not solely on this forum but on their media and Indian foreign workers behavior in Singapore.
These foreign workers, (but why only Indians) like to brag that they helped to make Singapore rich, forgetting that Singapore is rich before they came.
.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Carlosa said:


> I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.


IVC wasnt hindu.. even its script has not been decoded let alone religion.

Includes? lmao...It lies 99% inside Pakistan







Its sites are in Pak... and on our currency








Carlosa said:


> I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.


Ur so called hindu civilisation resides on the ganges delta not Indus which flows entirely in Pak.



Carlosa said:


> I'm talking about ancient Indian civilization, Vedic India, the Hindus Valley civilization and that includes present day Pakistan, yes, I know that and it doesn't change anything.


Its like vietnam claiming the anciet Chinese civilisation because of Chinese influence.

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## Carlosa

sinait said:


> There are more than 1 bad incident that Indonesia did.
> Off my mind are a few examples:
> Konfrontasi(or Confrontation, 1963–1966) when Indonesia attacked tiny Singapore in an undeclared war.
> Genocide of communists in 1965.
> Genocide of Indonesian Chinese in 1998.
> Smog in Singapore and Malaysia every year from vegetation clearing by burning in Indonesia.
> 
> I think we are all very clear what constitute bragging and India.
> Vietnam celebrating their achievement in Pisa test and International Maths Olympiad is not bragging.
> India with their constant claims for decades that their GDP is overtaking China is bragging.
> India on their ancient Verdic maths and Verdic science is bragging.
> 
> East Asians are good in Maths and Science that are essential in Engineering and Weapons development.
> So far I observed, Singapore and Vietnam don't brag like the Indians do.
> I base my observations not solely on this forum but on their media and Indian foreign workers behavior in Singapore.
> These foreign workers, (but why only Indians) like to brag that they helped to make Singapore rich, forgetting that Singapore is rich before they came.
> .



I was using that incident with Indonesia just as an example, not to pick on them, but if you want to know, there are plenty of things from their recent history that I don't like, East Timor and Papua been just a few examples. Certainly don't like their burning season and plenty of other things. Anyway, they are not our point of discussion. Also, just so that you know, I have Singapore in high regard.

Why is Vedic math and science Indian bragging? The Vedic period is the precursor of Hinduism, the Vedic civilization is from Northern India and the Vedic period is recognized as one of the periods of Indian history.

I think we have different experiences with Indian people and there are certainly Indian people of different qualities and values (as is the case everywhere), so we have different perspectives. I do have respect for your points of view and experience.

@DESERT FIGHTER Where do you get that *"IVC wasnt hindu.. even its script has not been decoded let alone religion."*? The Vedic texts are not translated? The Vedic religion is not known? Hinduism is not a derivative from Vedic religion? Are we talking about the same thing?

The Indus Valley civilization also included part of Afghanistan and northwest India.

Come on, its useless to talk to most Pakistani people about India, you guys hate India so much that you just deny everything that is positive to India no matter how clear cut it is. Lets leave it at this.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Carlosa said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER Where do you get that *"IVC wasnt hindu.. even its script has not been decoded let alone religion."*? The Vedic texts are not translated? The Vedic religion is not known? Hinduism is not a derivative from Vedic religion? Are we talking about the same thing?


Are u confused?

IVC has nothing to do with hinduism!
Vedic is nothing but a term derived from Vedas, a hindu scripture in sanskrit... which itself was developed in modern-day Pakistan.. so go figure.

Ur foolishly confusing IVC with hinduism rather than treating it as a civilisation.

*Here decode this... maybe u are smarter than the people workin on it:*




*Decoding the mysterious ancient Indus Valley script will shed light on powerful ancient civilization*
(Read the article on one page)

Linguists have cracked many tough scripts, from Mesopotamian cuneiform to Egyptian hieroglyphic to Central American Mayan glyphs, *but there are a few ancient, mysterious scripts still in the field today, including the Indus Valley Civilization script of over four millennia ago, that are yet to be deciphered.*

The *undeciphered Indus script is carved in part with human and animal depictions and pictographic signs on soapstone seals, terracotta tablets and some on metal. Linguists do not know how many characters or syllables it has (estimates ranging from dozens to 958), they are not sure whether it is an alphabet (probably not), a syllabary (again, probably not) or a logographic-syllabic script that has words, concepts such as & and % and a small number of syllables (probably). Researchers are unsure which language was being written down in the Indus script, or even if it would be possible for such brief inscriptions to represent a complete language system.*



> The Indus Valley civilization also included part of Afghanistan and northwest India


Ofcourse it influenced parts of those countries but.. there is not a singlr notable IVC settlement present there expect a port in lothal india, bordering Pak.
.


> Come on, its useless to talk to most Pakistani people about India, you guys hate India so much that you just deny everything that is positive to India no matter how clear cut it is. Lets leave it at this.


Yeah indians are fukin saints.

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## Water Car Engineer

Alright, let's forget about the BS.

India is working on a QRSAM at the moment.














Requirement is to travel along the armoured corps, assault helicopters, intercept missiles, etc.

Might be of interest to VN.

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## Carlosa

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Are u confused?
> 
> IVC has nothing to do with hinduism!
> Vedic is nothing but a term derived from Vedas, a hindu scripture in sanskrit... which itself was developed in modern-day Pakistan.. so go figure.
> 
> Ur foolishly confusing IVC with hinduism rather than treating it as a civilisation.
> 
> *Here decode this... maybe u are smarter than the people workin on it:*
> View attachment 417697
> 
> *Decoding the mysterious ancient Indus Valley script will shed light on powerful ancient civilization*
> (Read the article on one page)
> 
> Linguists have cracked many tough scripts, from Mesopotamian cuneiform to Egyptian hieroglyphic to Central American Mayan glyphs, *but there are a few ancient, mysterious scripts still in the field today, including the Indus Valley Civilization script of over four millennia ago, that are yet to be deciphered.*
> 
> The *undeciphered Indus script is carved in part with human and animal depictions and pictographic signs on soapstone seals, terracotta tablets and some on metal. Linguists do not know how many characters or syllables it has (estimates ranging from dozens to 958), they are not sure whether it is an alphabet (probably not), a syllabary (again, probably not) or a logographic-syllabic script that has words, concepts such as & and % and a small number of syllables (probably). Researchers are unsure which language was being written down in the Indus script, or even if it would be possible for such brief inscriptions to represent a complete language system.*
> 
> 
> Ofcourse it influenced parts of those countries but.. there is not a singlr notable IVC settlement present there expect a port in lothal india, bordering Pak.
> .
> Yeah indians are fukin saints.



No man, I understand very well that the Indus Valley civilization is a different one (also known as Harappan) and a different historical period. The thing is, Hinduism, and Yoga too, see themselves are originating from the Vedic period. If you study them from their perspective, you will see that, but their perspective is not recognized by many non Hindus, like in the case of Pakistanis. Much of their philosophy and teachings come directly from the Vedic period and their scriptures make references to the Vedic period all the time. Scholars have not translated the Vedic script, yes, but the ancient Hindus had a direct knowledge of the Vedic period and it reflects in their religious literature. I know you wont agree to this, but the Indians could argue with you about this forever.

Map of the Indus Valley civilization showing the major sites. You said 99% in Pakistan, not true. You said no major sites outside Pakistan, not true. You have a prejudice against India man.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> India, together with China and Egypt are the 3 ancient civilizations that had massive ancient knowledge and wisdom, much of which we are still trying to figure out. They can be considered the 3 root civilizations of the human race. Only ignorant / uneducated people can ignore that.
> 
> Some samples of the contributions of Indian civilization:
> What the ancients knew - India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Science of Time in Hinduism | Scientific India | Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The magic of Vedic math - Gaurav Tekriwal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-1 of 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC - History of Indian Mathematics Part-2 of 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanskrit Language: The Most Scientific, Ancient, Spiritual - *Full*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brilliant stuff !! Why Cow is Holy ? - By London Based Physicist Jay Lakhani https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRZzvbhc7ww
> 
> Extraordinary Facts of Vedas That Made Western Scientists Spellbound || Source of Inventions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_dEgFdjoM
> 
> @Nilgiri @Farhan Bohra



I just say, whoever saying India aka Bharat is uncivilized, they never read history of India. 

But one thing, Indian civilization was at nose dive after fall of Mauryan and Gupta Empire. 
But I must say we still survived. No civilization in human history survived after fall. 

Romans are nowhere, Babylons are gone, Mesopotamia is gone. 

But the basic instinct of Bharat still survived. 

From Maurya to Marathas to Mordern India. That instict still survived.

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## sinait

Carlosa said:


> No man, I understand very well that the Indus Valley civilization is a different one (also known as Harappan) and a different historical period. The thing is, Hinduism, and Yoga too, see themselves are originating from the Vedic period. If you study them from their perspective, you will see that, but their perspective is not recognized by many non Hindus, like in the case of Pakistanis. Much of their philosophy and teachings come directly from the Vedic period and their scriptures make references to the Vedic period all the time. Scholars have not translated the Vedic script, yes, but the ancient Hindus had a direct knowledge of the Vedic period and it reflects in their religious literature. I know you wont agree to this, but the Indians could argue with you about this forever.
> 
> Map of the Indus Valley civilization showing the major sites. You said 99% in Pakistan, not true. You said no major sites outside Pakistan, not true. You have a prejudice against India man.


Indians like to claim credit for all and sundry where credit is not due.
Like Buddhism.
Here is wiki written by Indians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakya

The Shakya (Sakya and Sakiya[1][2][3]) were a clan of the late Vedic period (1000-500 BCE).
The best-known Shakya was Siddhartha Gautama Shakya, who was the founder of Buddhism (c. 6th to 4th centuries BCE) and came to be known as Gautama Buddha

Annexation by Kosala
Virudhaka, as an act of vengeance, he invaded the Shakya territory, *massacred them and annexed it*.

Religion
It is uncertain whether, by the time of Siddhartha's birth, Vedic Brahmanism had been adopted to any significant extent by the Shakyans.
*However, the bearers of this tradition, the Brahmins, did not occupy a dominant position in the area in which the Buddha preached his message.*

How could Buddhism be from India when the Buddha's people are massacred by them.
More probably survivors of the massacre escaped to Tibet, Myanmar and Thailand.
The Indians themselves state, *Brahmins are not dominant in areas the Buddha preach*.
So who are the people living in the Buddha's time in the area around ancient Nepal before they are massacred into oblivion.
Most probably East Asians or Tibeto-Burman.
.

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## Farhan Bohra

@Carlosa Btw who saying India is uncivilized don't know 1000 years ago, from Burma to Indonesia to Vietnam all were part of Chola Empire.

Maybe that's why Malaysia still call there Admiral as Lakshamana.

And Indonesian region named Bali. We all know from where this Bali word came from.



sinait said:


> Indians like to claim credit for all and sundry where credit is not due.
> Like Buddhism.
> Here is wiki written by Indians.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakya
> 
> The Shakya (Sakya and Sakiya[1][2][3]) were a clan of the late Vedic period (1000-500 BCE).
> The best-known Shakya was Siddhartha Gautama Shakya, who was the founder of Buddhism (c. 6th to 4th centuries BCE) and came to be known as Gautama Buddha
> 
> Annexation by Kosala
> Virudhaka, as an act of vengeance, he invaded the Shakya territory, *massacred them and annexed it*.
> 
> Religion
> It is uncertain whether, by the time of Siddhartha's birth, Vedic Brahmanism had been adopted to any significant extent by the Shakyans.
> *However, the bearers of this tradition, the Brahmins, did not occupy a dominant position in the area in which the Buddha preached his message.*
> 
> How could Buddhism be from India when the Buddha's people are massacred by them.
> More probably survivors of the massacre escaped to Tibet, Myanmar and Thailand.
> The Indians themselves state, *Brahmins are not dominant in areas the Buddha preach*.
> So who are the people living in the Buddha's time in the area around ancient Nepal before they are massacred into oblivion.
> Most probably East Asians or Tibeto-Burman.
> .




Tell this to Tibetans. 

I am seriously saying tell this to Tibetans and check there reply.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> There are more than 1 bad incident that Indonesia did.
> Off my mind are a few examples:
> Konfrontasi(or Confrontation, 1963–1966) when Indonesia attacked tiny Singapore in an undeclared war.
> Genocide of communists in 1965.
> Genocide of Indonesian Chinese in 1998.
> Smog in Singapore and Malaysia every year from vegetation clearing by burning in Indonesia.
> 
> I think we are all very clear what constitute bragging and India.
> Vietnam celebrating their achievement in Pisa test and International Maths Olympiad is not bragging.
> India with their constant claims for decades that their GDP is overtaking China is bragging.
> India on their ancient Verdic maths and Verdic science is bragging.
> 
> East Asians are good in Maths and Science that are essential in Engineering and Weapons development.
> So far I observed, Singapore and Vietnam don't brag like the Indians do.
> I base my observations not solely on this forum but on their media and Indian foreign workers behavior in Singapore.
> These foreign workers, (but why only Indians) like to brag that they helped to make Singapore rich, forgetting that Singapore is rich before they came.
> .


You take an extreme stance toward India. Actually not a problem at all for me, but don't post toilet theme and such here pls.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> @Carlosa Btw who saying India is uncivilized don't know 1000 years ago, from Burma to Indonesia to Vietnam all were part of Chola Empire.
> 
> Maybe that's why Malaysia still call there Admiral as Lakshamana.
> 
> And Indonesian region named Bali. We all know from where this Bali word came from.



Not only Bali, much of Indonesia was settled by the Hindus. The Cham people of Vietnam were a nice culture that left a lot of remains, particularly in south and central Vietnam. There are still about 60,000 Hindu Cham people in Vietnam.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Not only Bali, much of Indonesia was settled by the Hindus. The Cham people of Vietnam were a nice culture that left a lot of remains, particularly in south and central Vietnam. There are still about 60,000 Hindu Cham people in Vietnam.


The Cham are Hindu people, aren't they? I always think they are Muslim people

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## Farhan Bohra

sinait said:


> Bragging means talking of accomplishments before it is realized or accomplished. You see a lot of that in the development of Tejas, Arjun etc. etc.. Their Russian second hand aircraft carrier is supposedly the best in the world.
> Blowing up an innocent Thai fishing trawler and they were boasting and celebrating blowing up a pirate mothership until a lone survivor exposed their lie.
> Shameless Indians lap up the congratulations for a tragedy by them.
> .


India got independence just 70 years ago.

India is not a country from Mars but Planet Earth. And if you thinking implementing Chinese style development in India, forget it. That never going to happen.

If you saying that is a drawback for being a democracy, I accept it. But I still love Republic or Union.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> The Cham are Hindu people, aren't they? I always think they are Muslim people



They are both. Some Cham people stayed Hindu (Binh Tuan province) while others converted to Islam, the ones near Cambodia.

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## sinait

Farhan Bohra said:


> Tell this to Tibetans.
> I am seriously saying tell this to Tibetans and check there reply.


I will tell the Tibetans to believe what they will.
I am agnostic, that is I don't believe in any God or religion.
"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
Gautama Buddha (c. 563 BCE/480 BCE – c. 483 BCE/400 BCE), also known as Siddhartha Gautama
*No written records about Gautama were found from his lifetime or some centuries thereafter.
Various collections of teachings attributed to him were passed down by oral tradition and first committed to writing about 400 years later.*

*Scholars are hesitant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life*. (Edit: except the Indians)
"
Yes you read it correctly, there are no records to verify anything but hearsay.
Believe what you will and I respect that, but don't make claims based on hearsay onto non believers.
.

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## Farhan Bohra

sinait said:


> I will tell the Tibetans to believe what they will.
> I am agnostic, that is I don't believe in any God or religion.
> "
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
> Gautama Buddha (c. 563 BCE/480 BCE – c. 483 BCE/400 BCE), also known as Siddhartha Gautama
> *No written records about Gautama were found from his lifetime or some centuries thereafter.
> Various collections of teachings attributed to him were passed down by oral tradition and first committed to writing about 400 years later.*
> 
> *Scholars are hesitant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life*. (Edit: except the Indians)
> "
> Yes you read it correctly, there are no records to verify anything but hearsay.
> Believe what you will and I respect that, but don't make claims based on hearsay onto non believers.
> .


All Dharmic religions are originated from India, that is enough for your facts.

Buddhism was not a new religion.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> They are both. Some Cham people stayed Hindu (Binh Tuan province) while others converted to Islam, the ones near Cambodia.


Binh Tuan province? You mean Bình Định province, the Cham people in the past was the major enemy of Vietnam. The Vietnamese historian said the Vietnamese fought with them more than 2 to 3 times than with Chinese.


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## sinait

Viet said:


> You take an extreme stance toward India. Actually not a problem at all for me, but don't post toilet theme and such here pls.


I don't mind stopping, but @Carlosa seem to want to keep it going.
Anyway as per your request, I will stop here.
.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> The Cham are Hindu people, aren't they? I always think they are Muslim people



Many of the muslim people from Thailand and Cambodia were originally Cham people from Vietnam that escaped from the Viet invasion of the Cham kingdom.



sinait said:


> I don't mind stopping, but @Carlosa seem to want to keep it going.
> Anyway as per your request, I will stop here.
> .



I'm the one that said "Lets leave it at this." in post 10889, but you continued, so, no, its not me, its you, I just reply.

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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Not only Bali, much of Indonesia was settled by the Hindus. The Cham people of Vietnam were a nice culture that left a lot of remains, particularly in south and central Vietnam. There are still about 60,000 Hindu Cham people in Vietnam.


Map from 815,






Southern Empires of India always tried to go in East Asia, instead of invading North Indian empires.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Binh Tuan province? You mean Bình Định province, the Cham people in the past was the major enemy of Vietnam. The Vietnamese historian said the Vietnamese fought with them more than 2 to 3 times than with Chinese.



The Cham Balamon which are the Hindu ones are in both Ninh Thuan and Binh Thuan. I'm not sure which province has more, but I know there are many in Binh Thuan since I used to have a Cham friend there and I visited there. There are a number of Cham fishing villages there.

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## Farhan Bohra

sinait said:


> I will tell the Tibetans to believe what they will.
> I am agnostic, that is I don't believe in any God or religion.
> "
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha
> Gautama Buddha (c. 563 BCE/480 BCE – c. 483 BCE/400 BCE), also known as Siddhartha Gautama
> *No written records about Gautama were found from his lifetime or some centuries thereafter.
> Various collections of teachings attributed to him were passed down by oral tradition and first committed to writing about 400 years later.*
> 
> *Scholars are hesitant to make unqualified claims about the historical facts of the Buddha's life*. (Edit: except the Indians)
> "
> Yes you read it correctly, there are no records to verify anything but hearsay.
> Believe what you will and I respect that, but don't make claims based on hearsay onto non believers.
> .


BTW, stories of King Arthur and stories of Excalibur passed down orally over centuries. 

Tell this thing to Brits, that he was not a Brit, but a Saxon, so a German.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> Map from 815,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Southern Empires of India always tried to go in East Asia, instead of invading North Indian empires.



The Champa kingdom in Vietnam

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> The Cham are Hindu people, aren't they? I always think they are Muslim people


Yes the Cham were Vietnam's arch enemy for hundreds of years, with both sides staging onslaughts, with most wars ending in stalemate. they had been long under the influence of India but parts of the population converted later to Islam, that became popular in the 14 century. Vietnam annihilated Champa in 15 century when the army acquired the most powerful weapon, the world had never seen before: gun powder gun and artillery for the infantry.

The technology came from China although the Chinese imposed a total weapon embargo on Vietnam, with death penalty for everyone who violated it. Unclear how Vietnam got the technology, some assumed Vietnam paid huge money for Chinese smuggling gangs, with taking many weapons out of China. Vietnam copied the technology and started mass production that were used later in wars against the Chinese and in conquest against other countries in the region. The famous "march to the South" enlarged Vietnamese territories to the south, to the east and to the west.

The Cham asked the Chinese for help but Vietnam was determined to defeat the Cham army in a Blitzkrieg before the Chinese completed mobilization.

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## Viet

Some interesting development 

Converting manned to unmanned automatic 37mm anti aircraft twin gun











New granate launcher







Setting up assembly line for missiles







After successful field tests, armor piercing 12.7mm rifle is put to mass production.

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## Nilgiri

Wow one post about Indian TV show in Vietnam and furthering Indo-Viet cultural contact caused all that in response 

@Carlosa As you may see, IVC (and lot of other history in region) is a touchy subject in this forum. People always prefer to apply current political boundaries to ancient history when it suits a particular argument of theirs no matter how flawed it may actually be (in terms of cultural and even ethnic connection)....and then actively deny any connection to "India" by using strawmen arguments and/or ad-hominem attacks (forgetting how say even in Indian mainstream culture there is much fundamental transition and change from pre-vedic to vedic to post vedic/puranic eras).

You seem well read on the subject, there are plenty of civ/history forums where that is more mainline theme and audience more neutral etc where its productive subject to discuss. Over here I largely just back off from seriously talking about it, nothing good comes from it inevitably.

Anyways back to Vietnam defence now!

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Wow one post about Indian TV show in Vietnam and furthering Indo-Viet cultural contact caused all that in response
> 
> @Carlosa As you may see, IVC (and lot of other history in region) is a touchy subject in this forum. People always prefer to apply current political boundaries to ancient history when it suits a particular argument of theirs no matter how flawed it may actually be (in terms of cultural and even ethnic connection)....and then actively deny any connection to "India" by using strawmen arguments and/or ad-hominem attacks (forgetting how say even in Indian mainstream culture there is much fundamental transition and change from pre-vedic to vedic to post vedic/puranic eras).
> 
> You seem well read on the subject, there are plenty of civ/history forums where that is more mainline theme and audience more neutral etc where its productive subject to discuss. Over here I largely just back off from seriously talking about it, nothing good comes from it inevitably.
> 
> Anyways back to Vietnam defence now!



You are certainly right, I tried to avoid the arguments as much as possibly (I didn't get into the Arjun tank, but I had seen the Indian-Pak duels about that and all the rebuttals of what the Pak people say, but I know its useless to bring it up). In private I would tell you why I know about the connection between the Vedic / pre Vedic culture and Hinduism & Yoga, but I would not want to bring my personal life into the forum, but I'm very certain about that. 

Back to Viet defense. @Viet Didn't see any more news about VN buying the Osprey, so I don't know what's going on. I got that info from twitter, but I just arrived to China a couple of days ago and now I'm cut off from some of my best sources of information since those sites are blocked in China, so Its difficult to follow up on that. Let me know if you find anything.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You are certainly right, I tried to avoid the arguments as much as possibly (I didn't get into the Arjun tank, but I had seen the Indian-Pak duels about that and all the rebuttals of what the Pak people say, but I know its useless to bring it up). In private I would tell you why I know about the connection between the Vedic / pre Vedic culture and Hinduism & Yoga, but I would not want to bring my personal life into the forum, but I'm very certain about that.
> 
> Back to Viet defense. @Viet Didn't see any more news about VN buying the Osprey, so I don't know what's going on. I got that info from twitter, but I just arrived to China a couple of days ago and now I'm cut off from some of my best sources of information since those sites are blocked in China, so Its difficult to follow up on that. Let me know if you find anything.


Tata offers internet service with proxy placed in HK that is out of control of Chinese government.

As for $3 billion Ospreys birds, there is an interesting article in Sputnik I will post it here.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Have you tried ways to bypass Chinese great firewall? I once worked for a company that has facilities and offices in China such as in Shanghai. We used Tata internet service with proxy placed in HK that is out of control of Chinese government.
> 
> As for $3 billion Ospreys birds, there is an interesting article in Sputnik I will post it here.



I have tried some VPNs to try to bypass the firewall, but I was never able to get them to work. I'm planning to try again during this trip. That damn firewall gets better and better at blocking everything. No wonder chinese are so brainwashed, they only have the official version of everything.

Oh yes, please post that article. A lot of websites are blocked here even that they don't say or do anything against the chinese government, I can't figure out a reason why they are blocked.



Viet said:


> Tata offers internet service with proxy placed in HK that is out of control of Chinese government.
> 
> As for $3 billion Ospreys birds, there is an interesting article in Sputnik I will post it here.



I think for companies in China there are ways and services to bypass the firewall, but don't forget that I come here briefly for 2 or 3 weeks a few times a year, so those services may not be applicable to me.

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## Viet

*What Makes Vietnam an 'Ideal Client' For the United States?*

*



*
ASIA & PACIFIC
20:16 11.08.2017

While diplomatic battles were raging in Manila over the final statements of the foreign ministers in light of the ASEAN meetings, Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lịch was meeting with his US counterpart, James Mattis, in Washington. Sputnik China spoke to an expert from the Center for Strategic Research, Anton Tsvetov, in an interview.






© PHOTO: US Kicks Off Navy Drills With Vietnam After Beijing Slams 'Serious Provocation' in South China Sea


“The desperate struggle of Vietnamese diplomats in the corridors of the ASEAN ministerial meeting on the wording of the resolution concerning the South China Sea caused a flurry of criticism in the Chinese media,” Tsvetov said.

He further said, “This loneliness of Vietnam in its struggle further pushes it towards the United States. Although Vietnam refuses to behave like the Philippines under Duterte, it will also not behave like the Philippines under Aquino.”

According to the expert, perhaps the loudest news of the visit of the Vietnamese defense minister is the alleged promise by Mattis to bring a US aircraft carrier to a Vietnamese port during 2018; the last time it happened was in 1975, and back then the US ship had completely different purposes.

1975 marked the end of the Vietnam War. The war, also known as the Second Indochina War or Resistance War against America, was fought from 1955 to April 30, 1975.

Almost immediately following the visit, the Vietnamese received a small gift – the passage of the US destroyer John McCain through the waters of the South China Sea, claimed by China.

“On the same days, very strange rumors appeared in the Vietnamese media about an agreement to supply 24 US V-22 Osprey converters worth $3 billion. This deal seems extremely unlikely, so information about it can be used to test the reaction of different audiences,” Tsvetov said.

He further said that one way or another, it is politically impossible for the Vietnamese leadership to surrender positions regarding the dispute with China.

The expert also said that the long-standing efforts by Beijing to consolidate its positions in the South China Sea have raised significant anti-Chinese sentiments in Vietnam among the most diverse groups of the population, especially among those who criticize the Communist Party on other issues, but also enjoy anti-Chinese rhetoric.

“The Communist Party of Vietnam is trapped because a tough reaction and diplomatic demarches spoil relations with China. Whereas, softness and any concessions spoil relations with part of its own population, hence, the persistence of tension in relations with China makes Vietnam an ideal client for the United States,” Tsvetov noted.







© AP PHOTO/ JIN LIANGKUAI
Beijing Vowed Strike on Vietnam Targets for Drilling in South China Sea


At the same time, the leadership of Vietnam naturally sees limits of rapprochement with the United States.

According to the expert, an example of the rule in the Philippines of Benigno Aquino III showed that “if you go too far, the country will cut itself off from those objective economic opportunities that create normal relations with China.”

Nevertheless, economically, Vietnam has a fairly developed relationship with the United States, Japan, South Korea and other players, the expert said.

“As for ASEAN, today there is an impression that Vietnam is interested in this organization, first of all, as an instrument to draw attention to the problem of the South China Sea. That is why the Vietnamese diplomats worked so actively at the last ministerial meeting,” he said.

The expert further said, “In Hanoi, they know that the main thing for ASEAN is a consensus, which means that Vietnam has great opportunities to involve the rest of Southeast Asia in its protective combination.”

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201708111056391426-vietnam-ideal-client-us/

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Tata offers internet service with proxy placed in HK that is out of control of Chinese government.
> 
> As for $3 billion Ospreys birds, there is an interesting article in Sputnik I will post it here.



Interesting take, maybe it was a rumor to test China's reaction. The guy from the article, Tsvetov, is pretty good, he has a good feel for Vietnam, has good sources and contacts there plus his sources in Russia. I follow him in twitter.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I have tried some VPNs to try to bypass the firewall, but I was never able to get them to work. I'm planning to try again during this trip. That damn firewall gets better and better at blocking everything. No wonder chinese are so brainwashed, they only have the official version of everything.
> 
> Oh yes, please post that article. A lot of websites are blocked here even that they don't say or do anything against the chinese government, I can't figure out a reason why they are blocked.
> 
> 
> 
> I think for companies in China there are ways and services to bypass the firewall, but don't forget that I come here briefly for 2 or 3 weeks a few times a year, so those services may not be applicable to me.


To understand how Chinese censorship works. Internet in China is not any different to Internet in other countries with all traffic have to go thru a network control device called proxy. Anyone who controls the proxy controls the traffic. Foreign companies complain much about regular internet interruptions with some extreme cases every 15 minutes. The Chinese government has access to all proxies of internet service providers operating in China so she can control and filter any data she want to block or pass. So regardless of the name of your internet provider China telecom or Unicom you are not free in your choice to access data.

Some internet providers especially foreign one offer encryption services or VPN or even place proxies out of mainland China such as in HK. But there are limits. The Chinese authorities hinder the backdoors wherever they can.

All the best for your business in China

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Tata offers internet service with proxy placed in HK that is out of control of Chinese government.
> 
> As for $3 billion Ospreys birds, there is an interesting article in Sputnik I will post it here.


I never knew Tata also own Internet nodes in HK. 

Indeed Tata is Tier 1 provider, and most of internet nodes in South Asia are owned by Tata. But I never knew they also own internet nodes outside India.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> To understand how Chinese censorship works. Internet in China is not any different to Internet in other countries with all traffic have to go thru a network control device called proxy. Anyone who controls the proxy controls the traffic. Foreign companies complain much about regular internet interruptions with some extreme cases every 15 minutes. The Chinese government has access to all proxies of internet service providers operating in China so she can control and filter any data she want to block or pass. So regardless of the name of your internet provider China telecom or Unicom you are not free in your choice to access data.
> 
> Some internet providers especially foreign one offer encryption services or VPN or even place proxies out of mainland China such as in HK. But there are limits. The Chinese authorities hinder the backdoors wherever they can.
> 
> All the best for your business in China



Thanks man. Its never easy or fun to be here, but have to do.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> I never knew Tata also own Internet nodes in HK.
> 
> Indeed Tata is Tier 1 provider, and most of internet nodes in South Asia are owned by Tata. But I never knew they also own internet nodes outside India.


Tata has presence in many countries but in many cases does not maintain real nodes but leases virtual networks or cloud services from other such as zscaler.

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## Viet

Assembled by Damen z189 shipyard, Australia Navy inducts two Vietnam made 3,600 ton submarine support & rescue vessels into service:

MV Besant and MV Stoker






























Damen shipyard offers OPV Sea 1180 class for Australia Navy in a $3 billion program. The armament includes Raytheon Mark 49 Mod 2 RAM missile, Thales STIR fire control and Thales Smart-S Mark 2 search radar, two OTO Melara MARLIN 30mm automatic guns and the Rheinmetall MASS Multi Ammunition Softkill System decoy system, all managed by the TACTICOS combat management system.

Vietnam orders 10 ships to be manufactured by the Damen local shipyard in Haiphong. Unclear whether that will be the Sea 1180 class.

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## Carlosa

*What's Behind Upcoming US Aircraft Carrier's Visit to Vietnam?*
*https://sputniknews.com/asia/201708121056409034-us-aircraft-carrier-visit-to-vietnam/
*
During the recent meeting between Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich and his US counterpart James Mattis, the two defense leaders agreed to deepen mutual military cooperation.

Following the talks held in Washington, Jim Mattis said that strong relations between the two countries were based on mutual interests, including freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

In an interview with Radio Sputnik, a research fellow at the Maritime Security Program, Dr. Collin Koh Swee Lean, said that this cooperation has been flourishing the past few years.
“First of all it is important to highlight that this recent announcement of the aircraft carrier visit was built on the earlier upswing in the political relations between the US and Vietnam even during Obama’s administration, so now Trump’s administration is building on that momentum,” Lean said.

He further said that earlier it was seen that US ships have made visits into the region close to Vietnam, so the planned visit of the aircraft carrier is not just a “show of commitment to Vietnam, but to the South Asian region in general.”

“I think by doing this, the US shows that it is still interested in maintaining peace and stability in the region,” the analyst said.

Talking about how the US and Vietnam relations have developed since the end of the Vietnam War in 1975, Lean said that there was a postwar time and it resembled the Cold War era, but there was a change in attitude not only in the US but also in Vietnam, as the country became more independent in its foreign policy.

1975 marked the end of the Vietnam War. The war, also known as the Second Indochina War or Resistance War against America, was fought from 1955 to April 30, 1975.

“Over time there was a gradual improvement or rapprochement in relations between the US and Vietnam, but those relations back then were actually bound to diplomatic dialogue as well as some economic exchanges, but from the 2000s we saw improvement in the scope of those collaborations that comprised heavier element of defense and security issue,” Lean said.





© AP Photo/ Horst Faas

He further spoke about the South China Sea dispute and how China might react to US-Vietnam defense cooperation.

“The visit of the US aircraft carrier sends a very clear and heavy signal to the intended parties and China is one of the intended parties,” the analyst said.

He further spoke about how Vietnam supports the rule based order and freedom of navigation that was mentioned during the Obama administration and not just recently.
However, Vietnam’s defense cooperation, according to Lean, is not isolated to just the US, because Vietnam is also similarly cooperating with Japan and it generally aims to have better cooperation with regional countries in light of its more open foreign policy.

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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> *What's Behind Upcoming US Aircraft Carrier's Visit to Vietnam?*
> 
> 
> “The visit of the US aircraft carrier sends a very clear and heavy signal to the intended parties and China is one of the intended parties,” the analyst said.
> 
> He further spoke about how Vietnam supports the rule based order and freedom of navigation that was mentioned during the Obama administration and not just recently.
> However, Vietnam’s defense cooperation, according to Lean, is not isolated to just the US, because Vietnam is also similarly cooperating with Japan and it generally aims to have better cooperation with regional countries in light of its more open foreign policy.


Seem like a chance for CN to beg for daddy US's help like in 1979 becoming so narrow now. The whole world known clearly how usless CN coast guard is when facing wt VN small but brave coast guard. Soon, ppl will see how useless CN PLAN is without daddy US back up like in 1979


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## Viet

Vietnam made anti tank SPG9 73mm for infantrymen

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## Viet

sinait said:


> I don't mind stopping, but @Carlosa seem to want to keep it going.
> Anyway as per your request, I will stop here.
> .


Keep civil is a good thing every country has good and bad. Ah one interesting stat: Vietnamese nationals account for 3.2 percent of real estate transactions in Singapore according to Coldwell Banker Singapore. VN is a low income middle country with population just have escaped poverty but apparently there are enough Vietnamese with money. Should the Vietnamese government loosen money policy restrictions more Vietnamese will purchase homes and offices in Singapore.

Beautiful Singapore

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## Nabil365

Viet said:


> Keep civil is a good thing every country has good and bad. Ah one interesting stat: Vietnamese nationals account for 3.2 percent of real estate transactions in Singapore according to Coldwell Banker Singapore. VN is a low income middle country with population just have escaped poverty but apparently there are enough Vietnamese with money. Should the Vietnamese government loosen money policy restrictions more Vietnamese will purchase homes and offices in Singapore.
> 
> Beautiful Singapore
> 
> View attachment 418107


http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/prop...6205/bungalow-in-the-sky-up-for-sale-for-100m


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## Viet

Nabil365 said:


> http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/prop...6205/bungalow-in-the-sky-up-for-sale-for-100m


Only for someone who has millions or billions USD. No Vietnamese are poor, we can't buy such thing, instead we and some friends invest for instance just $400 millions in San Jose, California. Vietnam Town.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Keep civil is a good thing every country has good and bad. Ah one interesting stat: Vietnamese nationals account for 3.2 percent of real estate transactions in Singapore according to Coldwell Banker Singapore. VN is a low income middle country with population just have escaped poverty but apparently there are enough Vietnamese with money. Should the Vietnamese government loosen money policy restrictions more Vietnamese will purchase homes and offices in Singapore.
> 
> Beautiful Singapore


It puzzles me no end that tourists would like to visit Singapore.
Good place to work though, everything, everywhere within easy reach.
I renew my passport say in less than 2 hrs including travel time to and from home.
That could take days in other countries or at the very least wait an hour at the passport office.
We have a lot of rich and maybe corrupted as well, Indonesians, Chinese(PRC) buying properties in Singapore.
So these Vietnamese with money to buy houses in Singapore .... .

Singapore Beautiful, hmm ?
Remember last time you showed me those condos with lush greeneries. 
That is beautiful.
Hope you don't miss out Vietnam's property boom.
Cheers.
.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> It puzzles me no end that tourists would like to visit Singapore.
> Good place to work though, everything, everywhere within easy reach.
> I renew my passport say in less than 2 hrs including travel time to and from home.
> That could take days in other countries or at the very least wait an hour at the passport office.
> We have a lot of rich and maybe corrupted as well, Indonesians, Chinese(PRC) buying properties in Singapore.
> So these Vietnamese with money to buy houses in Singapore .... .
> 
> Singapore Beautiful, hmm ?
> Remember last time you showed me those condos with lush greeneries.
> That is beautiful.
> Hope you don't miss out Vietnam's property boom.
> Cheers.
> .


Yes sometimes the house opposite the street is greener than mine. Ha ha. Seriously speaking and I mean serious because money is a serious matter, speaking from experience as I have been very often in your country. Sing is efficient, clean, great public infrastructure and corruption free. I can recommend all my countrymen to put money and buy houses in safe heaven Singapore. Personally I myself would buy an apartment there not in VN. It is good for bad times. Showing you Condos with lots of greenery? Do you mean the works of the Vietnamese architect Vo trong Nghia? A bit off topic...regardless.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Only for someone who has millions or billions USD. No Vietnamese are poor, we can't buy such thing, instead we and some friends invest for instance just $400 millions in San Jose, California. Vietnam Town.
> 
> View attachment 418158
> 
> View attachment 418156
> 
> View attachment 418157
> 
> View attachment 418159
> 
> View attachment 418160
> 
> View attachment 418161
> 
> View attachment 418162
> 
> View attachment 418165



I live in san jose and a lot of the Vietnam Town buildings are still for rent.

It had a massive delay because people had a big argument on what to name it. It was political in nature.

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## Carlosa

Interesting article from last year that gives an idea about the quality and bravery of chinese soldiers:

*UN peacekeepers refused to help as aid workers were raped in South Sudan – report*
*Chinese troops abandoned their posts rather than engage in fighting and protect civilians, says US-based rights group*

Jason Burke, Africa correspondent, and agencies

Thursday 6 October 2016 13.01 BSTFirst published on Thursday 6 October 2016 01.00 BST

United Nations peacekeepers stayed in their bases rather than protect civilians during an outbreak of fighting in South Sudan in July, a rights group has said.

Chinese UN peacekeepers in the capital Juba “abandoned their posts entirely” at one civilian protection site where tens of thousands had sought safety from successive bouts of fighting, a report by the US-based Centre for Civilians in Conflict (Civic) said.

Although Ethiopian troops appear to have withdrawn from their perimeter positions at another base, civilians said the peacekeepers helped evacuate civilian casualties and, on at least a few occasions, returned fire when fighters targeted the camp. Outside the fortified bases, however, peacekeeper presence was “non-existent”.

The failures came amid clashes in Juba between troops from the government’s Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA), loyal to the president Salva Kiir, and opposition forces of his rival Riek Machar. The street battles, in which scores were killed, were the culmination of months of tension between the two factions, and resulted in the flight of Machar from South Sudan.

*During four days of fighting between the rival forces, artillery rounds and gunfire hit two UN bases, killing two Chinese peacekeepers.*

*The Chinese troops subsequently abandoned their posts, leaving weapons and ammunition behind, the report said.*

More than 300 people died in the fighting, with the majority of the military casualties sustained by the rebels. A number of government soldiers from the SPLA were also killed.

However, civilians suffered worst, with tens of thousands displaced by the violence and widespread human rights abuses by both sides.

Civilians died inside and outside the UN bases and hundreds – possibly thousands – of women were raped, including many within view of UN bases. Aid workers were also targeted.

On the last day of the fighting, about 80 to 100 government soldiers attacked a compound in Juba where they raped and gang-raped at least five international aid workers and physically or sexually assaulted at least a dozen others, the report said.

They also killed a South Sudanese journalist, apparently because of his ethnicity, it was reported.

One UN base was only several hundred metres from the compound, but despite dozens of appeals for help from the besieged aid workers and personal visits from at least one who escaped from the compound, internal UN documents show no help was sent, the Associated Press reported in August.


The new report, based on about 100 interviews conducted in south Sudan, explains that *though the UN gave orders for a peacekeepers to intervene, none “ever tried to leave their bases” with the Chinese and Ethiopian battalions refusing to go.*

The UN has more than 12,500 troops from 61 countries deployed in South Sudan, which gained independence from Sudan in 2011 after decades of civil war. Under the UN’s terms of engagement, the force, which is equipped with armoured vehicles and heavy weapons, has the authority to take action to protect civilians and staff from imminent violence.

About 2,500 troops are stationed in two bases in Juba, backed by about 930 support staff and 350 police officers.

“The UN peacekeeping mission faced a challenging environment during the July violence in Juba, but it underperformed in protecting civilians inside and outside its bases,” said Federico Borello, the executive director of Civic. “To ensure that such problems are not repeated, it is critical that the UN be transparent about what went wrong and hold accountable any individuals or units that failed to live up to the protection mandate.”

Civic also called for a UN arms embargo on South Sudan, which was plunged into conflict in December 2013, when the president, Kiir, accused Machar, his former deputy, of plotting a coup.

A patchily implemented peace deal in August 2015 led to Machar’s return to the capital this year, but the agreement broke down.


The UN’s failings in July were not new, Civic said. The group previously investigated an incident in February, when peacekeepers from Ethiopia, India and Rwanda stood by as government soldiers attacked another Protection of Civilians site in the northern town of Malakal, killing at least 30 civilians.

Months later, the UN admitted to peacekeeper “inaction, abandonment of post and refusal to engage” during the Malakal attack, but failed to hold any commanders or troops to account.

Civic said the UN mission in South Sudan received inadequate support from UN headquarters and had been “repeatedly blocked, harassed, and, at times, even attacked by the parties to the conflict”.

“The UN’s failings began before guns were fired in July; the security council has not taken meaningful action to challenge the government of South Sudan as it repeatedly obstructed the movements and functioning of Unmiss. 

“The mission, for its part, yielded to a situation in which, in effect, it needed [local authorities’] authorisation to perform many of its most basic protection tasks,” the report said.

UN peacekeeping officials said the report raised a number of important issues, noting that an independent investigation into the Juba violence ordered by the outgoing UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon was due to present its findings shortly.

The UN sites offering civilians refuge were “unsustainable and cannot provide a reliable option for the physical security” of tens of thousands of South Sudanese, the institution’s peacekeeping department said. “The investment we urgently need to make and prioritise in South Sudan is putting the peace process back on track,” it said.

Machar, the former vice president, is in exile in Khartoum, from where he has called for armed resistance against Kiir’s government, raising the prospect of a return to all-out civil war.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> I live in san jose and a lot of the Vietnam Town buildings are still for rent.
> 
> It has a massive delay because people had a big argument on what to name it. It was political in nature.


Hey how are things in San Jose? We can name "Little Saigon" but as there are too many little Saigon in the States we can name "little Saigon 1" then 2 and so forth. Or how about "Little Da Nang"? Crazy nuts just because all can't agree on a name the project is delayed.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Interesting article from last year that gives an idea about the quality and bravery of chinese soldiers:
> 
> *UN peacekeepers refused to help as aid workers were raped in South Sudan – report*
> *Chinese troops abandoned their posts rather than engage in fighting and protect civilians, says US-based rights group*
> 
> Jason Burke, Africa correspondent, and agencies
> 
> Thursday 6 October 2016 13.01 BSTFirst published on Thursday 6 October 2016 01.00 BST
> 
> United Nations peacekeepers stayed in their bases rather than protect civilians during an outbreak of fighting in South Sudan in July, a rights group has said.
> 
> Chinese UN peacekeepers in the capital Juba “abandoned their posts entirely” at one civilian protection site where tens of thousands had sought safety from successive bouts of fighting, a report by the US-based Centre for Civilians in Conflict (Civic) said.
> 
> Although Ethiopian troops appear to have withdrawn from their perimeter positions at another base, civilians said the peacekeepers helped evacuate civilian casualties and, on at least a few occasions, returned fire when fighters targeted the camp. Outside the fortified bases, however, peacekeeper presence was “non-existent”.
> 
> The failures came amid clashes in Juba between troops from the government’s Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA), loyal to the president Salva Kiir, and opposition forces of his rival Riek Machar. The street battles, in which scores were killed, were the culmination of months of tension between the two factions, and resulted in the flight of Machar from South Sudan.
> 
> *During four days of fighting between the rival forces, artillery rounds and gunfire hit two UN bases, killing two Chinese peacekeepers.*
> 
> *The Chinese troops subsequently abandoned their posts, leaving weapons and ammunition behind, the report said.*
> 
> More than 300 people died in the fighting, with the majority of the military casualties sustained by the rebels. A number of government soldiers from the SPLA were also killed.
> 
> However, civilians suffered worst, with tens of thousands displaced by the violence and widespread human rights abuses by both sides.
> 
> Civilians died inside and outside the UN bases and hundreds – possibly thousands – of women were raped, including many within view of UN bases. Aid workers were also targeted.
> 
> On the last day of the fighting, about 80 to 100 government soldiers attacked a compound in Juba where they raped and gang-raped at least five international aid workers and physically or sexually assaulted at least a dozen others, the report said.
> 
> They also killed a South Sudanese journalist, apparently because of his ethnicity, it was reported.
> 
> One UN base was only several hundred metres from the compound, but despite dozens of appeals for help from the besieged aid workers and personal visits from at least one who escaped from the compound, internal UN documents show no help was sent, the Associated Press reported in August.
> 
> 
> The new report, based on about 100 interviews conducted in south Sudan, explains that *though the UN gave orders for a peacekeepers to intervene, none “ever tried to leave their bases” with the Chinese and Ethiopian battalions refusing to go.*
> 
> The UN has more than 12,500 troops from 61 countries deployed in South Sudan, which gained independence from Sudan in 2011 after decades of civil war. Under the UN’s terms of engagement, the force, which is equipped with armoured vehicles and heavy weapons, has the authority to take action to protect civilians and staff from imminent violence.
> 
> About 2,500 troops are stationed in two bases in Juba, backed by about 930 support staff and 350 police officers.
> 
> “The UN peacekeeping mission faced a challenging environment during the July violence in Juba, but it underperformed in protecting civilians inside and outside its bases,” said Federico Borello, the executive director of Civic. “To ensure that such problems are not repeated, it is critical that the UN be transparent about what went wrong and hold accountable any individuals or units that failed to live up to the protection mandate.”
> 
> Civic also called for a UN arms embargo on South Sudan, which was plunged into conflict in December 2013, when the president, Kiir, accused Machar, his former deputy, of plotting a coup.
> 
> A patchily implemented peace deal in August 2015 led to Machar’s return to the capital this year, but the agreement broke down.
> 
> 
> The UN’s failings in July were not new, Civic said. The group previously investigated an incident in February, when peacekeepers from Ethiopia, India and Rwanda stood by as government soldiers attacked another Protection of Civilians site in the northern town of Malakal, killing at least 30 civilians.
> 
> Months later, the UN admitted to peacekeeper “inaction, abandonment of post and refusal to engage” during the Malakal attack, but failed to hold any commanders or troops to account.
> 
> Civic said the UN mission in South Sudan received inadequate support from UN headquarters and had been “repeatedly blocked, harassed, and, at times, even attacked by the parties to the conflict”.
> 
> “The UN’s failings began before guns were fired in July; the security council has not taken meaningful action to challenge the government of South Sudan as it repeatedly obstructed the movements and functioning of Unmiss.
> 
> “The mission, for its part, yielded to a situation in which, in effect, it needed [local authorities’] authorisation to perform many of its most basic protection tasks,” the report said.
> 
> UN peacekeeping officials said the report raised a number of important issues, noting that an independent investigation into the Juba violence ordered by the outgoing UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon was due to present its findings shortly.
> 
> The UN sites offering civilians refuge were “unsustainable and cannot provide a reliable option for the physical security” of tens of thousands of South Sudanese, the institution’s peacekeeping department said. “The investment we urgently need to make and prioritise in South Sudan is putting the peace process back on track,” it said.
> 
> Machar, the former vice president, is in exile in Khartoum, from where he has called for armed resistance against Kiir’s government, raising the prospect of a return to all-out civil war.


Hey hey never underestimate the Chinese prowess. The propaganda movie wolf warrior 2 hits the money ceiling in China. On the ground they threaten Vietnam with war backed by hard power. 10,000 tanks is a lot. Anyway insider knows the mass of UN peacekeepers are mostly sent by poor countries with bad or zero fighting records. Those countries do that because they receive money from the UN. They make a living from sending soldiers to overseas operations.

Expecting those UN soldiers to fight and give their lives for some dollars is too much demanding.

VN refused until recently to send peacekeepers to overseas. We are poor but not desperate.

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## Viet

*Int'l security expo to be held in Vietnam *
Source: Xinhua| 2017-08-14 18:53:49|

HANOI, Aug. 14 (Xinhua) -- The 2017 International Homeland Security Expo will take place in Vietnam's capital Hanoi from Aug. 29-30, with the participation of 50 firms and organizations around the world, its organizers announced on Monday.

At 100 booths, the firms and organizations from Russia, the United States, France, Britain, Czech, Ukraine, South Korea, Singapore, India and South Africa, among others, will showcase their advanced products and solutions for security and police forces, including weapons, marine vessels, protective gears and systems for border control, fire fighting, and airspace surveillance. 

The two-day expo will be held by the General Department of Logistics and Engineering under the Vietnamese Ministry of Public Security in coordination with a local firm.


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## Viet

Inside a $100 million domestic factory that produces Galil Ace rifles for Vietnamese people's Army.

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## Viet

*India defies missile-exporting China with cruise missile sale to Vietnam *
By World Tribune on August 14, 2017


*



*
The BrahMos is co-produced by India and Russia. / Reuters


India’s sale to Vietnam of a short-range, supersonic anti-ship missile has opened a new conflict in an already tense situation with China, an analyst said.

Vietnam will receive the BrahMos which is considered one of the most effective and lethal anti-ship missiles in the world, with speeds reaching Mach 2.8 to 3.0.

“About half of China’s worldwide arms exports go to one country — Pakistan, for the primary reason of ‘containing India,’ ” said Hoover Institution Fellow and Geostrategy-Direct correspondent Maochun Miles Yu in a Facebook post.
*
“Now India is playing the same game by arming one of China’s arch enemies: Vietnam.”*

Russia, which co-produces the BrahMos with India, is said to have given its nod of approval on the sale.

“The Chinese government has major objections about Vietnam getting these missiles for its navy,” said analyst Larkins Dsouza, founder of Defense Aviation.“China sees India selling BrahMos to Vietnam as an act of belligerence and interference in the South China Sea dispute.”

But, Dsouza added, “China seems to be overlooking the fact that it sells a great deal of weapons to Pakistan, a country that has been in a gridlock with India for decades. All indications now point to the fact that New Delhi has overcome its reservations and fears about annoying China.”

The BrahMos can be launched from submarines, ships, aircraft or land. It was developed jointly by India’s Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and Russia’s NPO Mashinostroeyenia. Vietnam is said to be looking to use the missile in its* Kilo-class submarines*.

The missile is heavily based on the Russian P-800 Oniks cruise missile and other similar sea-skimming Russian cruise missile technology, Dsouza said.

A hypersonic version of the missile, the BrahMos-II, is also currently under development with speeds up to Mach 7. It could be ready for testing some time this year, Dsouza said.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> *India defies missile-exporting China with cruise missile sale to Vietnam *
> By World Tribune on August 14, 2017
> 
> 
> *
> View attachment 418498
> *
> The BrahMos is co-produced by India and Russia. / Reuters
> 
> 
> India’s sale to Vietnam of a short-range, supersonic anti-ship missile has opened a new conflict in an already tense situation with China, an analyst said.
> 
> Vietnam will receive the BrahMos which is considered one of the most effective and lethal anti-ship missiles in the world, with speeds reaching Mach 2.8 to 3.0.
> 
> “About half of China’s worldwide arms exports go to one country — Pakistan, for the primary reason of ‘containing India,’ ” said Hoover Institution Fellow and Geostrategy-Direct correspondent Maochun Miles Yu in a Facebook post.
> *
> “Now India is playing the same game by arming one of China’s arch enemies: Vietnam.”*
> 
> Russia, which co-produces the BrahMos with India, is said to have given its nod of approval on the sale.
> 
> “The Chinese government has major objections about Vietnam getting these missiles for its navy,” said analyst Larkins Dsouza, founder of Defense Aviation.“China sees India selling BrahMos to Vietnam as an act of belligerence and interference in the South China Sea dispute.”
> 
> But, Dsouza added, “China seems to be overlooking the fact that it sells a great deal of weapons to Pakistan, a country that has been in a gridlock with India for decades. All indications now point to the fact that New Delhi has overcome its reservations and fears about annoying China.”
> 
> The BrahMos can be launched from submarines, ships, aircraft or land. It was developed jointly by India’s Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and Russia’s NPO Mashinostroeyenia. Vietnam is said to be looking to use the missile in its* Kilo-class submarines*.
> 
> The missile is heavily based on the Russian P-800 Oniks cruise missile and other similar sea-skimming Russian cruise missile technology, Dsouza said.
> 
> A hypersonic version of the missile, the BrahMos-II, is also currently under development with speeds up to Mach 7. It could be ready for testing some time this year, Dsouza said.



Excellent news, its about time, too bad there is no details of what version of the Brahmos and what quantity.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Excellent news, its about time, too bad there is no details of what version of the Brahmos and what quantity.


Nothing is confirmed nor revealed probably the news is released to test certain audience. It is a matter of times India runs out of patience with our northern neighbor and provides VN with the missile we need to strengthen our firepower.

VN military operates with secrecy to conceal things we want to hide. It is much similar to purchasing of T90 tanks and hosting the first US aircraft carrier, the news is released when nobody expected. Cheers.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Hey how are things in San Jose? We can name "Little Saigon" but as there are too many little Saigon in the States we can name "little Saigon 1" then 2 and so forth. Or how about "Little Da Nang"? Crazy nuts just because all can't agree on a name the project is delayed.
> 
> View attachment 418294



The housing market here is getting way out of control. Million dollar for something that should cost 40k. Even homes in the ghetto now costs close to a million.



Carlosa said:


> Interesting article from last year that gives an idea about the quality and bravery of chinese soldiers:
> 
> *UN peacekeepers refused to help as aid workers were raped in South Sudan – report*
> *Chinese troops abandoned their posts rather than engage in fighting and protect civilians, says US-based rights group*
> 
> Jason Burke, Africa correspondent, and agencies
> 
> Thursday 6 October 2016 13.01 BSTFirst published on Thursday 6 October 2016 01.00 BST
> 
> United Nations peacekeepers stayed in their bases rather than protect civilians during an outbreak of fighting in South Sudan in July, a rights group has said.
> 
> Chinese UN peacekeepers in the capital Juba “abandoned their posts entirely” at one civilian protection site where tens of thousands had sought safety from successive bouts of fighting, a report by the US-based Centre for Civilians in Conflict (Civic) said.
> 
> Although Ethiopian troops appear to have withdrawn from their perimeter positions at another base, civilians said the peacekeepers helped evacuate civilian casualties and, on at least a few occasions, returned fire when fighters targeted the camp. Outside the fortified bases, however, peacekeeper presence was “non-existent”.
> 
> The failures came amid clashes in Juba between troops from the government’s Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA), loyal to the president Salva Kiir, and opposition forces of his rival Riek Machar. The street battles, in which scores were killed, were the culmination of months of tension between the two factions, and resulted in the flight of Machar from South Sudan.
> 
> *During four days of fighting between the rival forces, artillery rounds and gunfire hit two UN bases, killing two Chinese peacekeepers.*
> 
> *The Chinese troops subsequently abandoned their posts, leaving weapons and ammunition behind, the report said.*
> 
> More than 300 people died in the fighting, with the majority of the military casualties sustained by the rebels. A number of government soldiers from the SPLA were also killed.
> 
> However, civilians suffered worst, with tens of thousands displaced by the violence and widespread human rights abuses by both sides.
> 
> Civilians died inside and outside the UN bases and hundreds – possibly thousands – of women were raped, including many within view of UN bases. Aid workers were also targeted.
> 
> On the last day of the fighting, about 80 to 100 government soldiers attacked a compound in Juba where they raped and gang-raped at least five international aid workers and physically or sexually assaulted at least a dozen others, the report said.
> 
> They also killed a South Sudanese journalist, apparently because of his ethnicity, it was reported.
> 
> One UN base was only several hundred metres from the compound, but despite dozens of appeals for help from the besieged aid workers and personal visits from at least one who escaped from the compound, internal UN documents show no help was sent, the Associated Press reported in August.
> 
> 
> The new report, based on about 100 interviews conducted in south Sudan, explains that *though the UN gave orders for a peacekeepers to intervene, none “ever tried to leave their bases” with the Chinese and Ethiopian battalions refusing to go.*
> 
> The UN has more than 12,500 troops from 61 countries deployed in South Sudan, which gained independence from Sudan in 2011 after decades of civil war. Under the UN’s terms of engagement, the force, which is equipped with armoured vehicles and heavy weapons, has the authority to take action to protect civilians and staff from imminent violence.
> 
> About 2,500 troops are stationed in two bases in Juba, backed by about 930 support staff and 350 police officers.
> 
> “The UN peacekeeping mission faced a challenging environment during the July violence in Juba, but it underperformed in protecting civilians inside and outside its bases,” said Federico Borello, the executive director of Civic. “To ensure that such problems are not repeated, it is critical that the UN be transparent about what went wrong and hold accountable any individuals or units that failed to live up to the protection mandate.”
> 
> Civic also called for a UN arms embargo on South Sudan, which was plunged into conflict in December 2013, when the president, Kiir, accused Machar, his former deputy, of plotting a coup.
> 
> A patchily implemented peace deal in August 2015 led to Machar’s return to the capital this year, but the agreement broke down.
> 
> 
> The UN’s failings in July were not new, Civic said. The group previously investigated an incident in February, when peacekeepers from Ethiopia, India and Rwanda stood by as government soldiers attacked another Protection of Civilians site in the northern town of Malakal, killing at least 30 civilians.
> 
> Months later, the UN admitted to peacekeeper “inaction, abandonment of post and refusal to engage” during the Malakal attack, but failed to hold any commanders or troops to account.
> 
> Civic said the UN mission in South Sudan received inadequate support from UN headquarters and had been “repeatedly blocked, harassed, and, at times, even attacked by the parties to the conflict”.
> 
> “The UN’s failings began before guns were fired in July; the security council has not taken meaningful action to challenge the government of South Sudan as it repeatedly obstructed the movements and functioning of Unmiss.
> 
> “The mission, for its part, yielded to a situation in which, in effect, it needed [local authorities’] authorisation to perform many of its most basic protection tasks,” the report said.
> 
> UN peacekeeping officials said the report raised a number of important issues, noting that an independent investigation into the Juba violence ordered by the outgoing UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon was due to present its findings shortly.
> 
> The UN sites offering civilians refuge were “unsustainable and cannot provide a reliable option for the physical security” of tens of thousands of South Sudanese, the institution’s peacekeeping department said. “The investment we urgently need to make and prioritise in South Sudan is putting the peace process back on track,” it said.
> 
> Machar, the former vice president, is in exile in Khartoum, from where he has called for armed resistance against Kiir’s government, raising the prospect of a return to all-out civil war.



Lol made in china.

No offense to chinese women. We know what you have to work with.

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## ChineseToTheBone

*Vietnam Bends the Knee to China*
More proof that in the South China Sea, Beijing is king.
By Jeremiah Jacques • August 14

https://www.thetrumpet.com/16157-vietnam-bends-the-knee-to-china

Here is another recent news article that looks over the development in the South China Sea.


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## TenLua

ChineseToTheBone said:


> *Vietnam Bends the Knee to China*
> More proof that in the South China Sea, Beijing is king.
> By Jeremiah Jacques • August 14
> 
> https://www.thetrumpet.com/16157-vietnam-bends-the-knee-to-china
> 
> Here is another recent news article that looks over the development in the South China Sea.



Lol who is even denying that? 1.5 billion and all that you can muster is the scs, pathetic dont you think?

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## ChineseToTheBone

If that is what it means when only claiming rightful territory, then so be it.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> The housing market here is getting way out of control. Million dollar for something that should cost 40k. Even homes in the ghetto now costs close to a million.
> .


It has been a while since my last visit to San Jose. Property price cooled down a lot, now it explodes again you say. Apparently too many people with money plus too much speculative purchases.



ChineseToTheBone said:


> If that is what it means when only claiming rightful territory, then so be it.


Your victory means little. Do you remember you were forced to stop drilling some few times ago? You can't drill we can't drill. We go back to square one.

In respect to your rightful territories, the central plain is only yours. Pls leave and give back everything to the respective owners! Thanks.

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## Viet

*The Forgotten South Vietnamese Airborne*





Troops of the Third Batallion, 60th Infantry, 9th Division, 2nd Brigade arrive in the United States after being withdrawn from Vietnam in 1969.
BETTMANN, VIA GETTY IMAGES

*AUGUST 8, 2017*
Vietnam '67
By BARRY R. MCCAFFREY

I arrived in Vietnam in July 1966, and for the next year I served as an adviser with the South Vietnamese Airborne Division. It was the last year we thought we were winning. It was the last year we could define what we thought winning would be. It was a year of optimism, of surging American troop strength that largely took over the war from the Vietnamese — and of wildly expanding American casualty lists.

By the end of 1967, there were 486,000 American troops in the battle. The number of Americans killed in action that year roughly doubled from 1966. Amid all of that, the sacrifice and valor and commitment of the South Vietnamese Army largely disappeared from the American political and media consciousness.

The South Vietnamese Airborne Division, which I joined as an assistant battalion adviser, was an elite combat unit. By 1967 these paratroopers, with their camouflaged jump uniforms and distinctive red berets, had grown to 13,000 men, all volunteers. Those of us privileged to serve with them were awe-struck by their courage and tactical aggressiveness. The senior officers and noncommissioned officers were extremely competent and battle hardened; it’s easy to forget that while the Americans were new to Vietnam, many of these men had been at war since 1951.

As advisers, we essentially acted as staff and liaison officers at the battalion and brigade levels. We had spent a year preparing in California, including 16-hour days of cultural and language immersion at the Defense Language Institute. I ended up with a sub-fluent command of spoken Vietnamese. Counterinsurgency tactics and training in the World War II-era weapons systems that the Vietnamese still used took place at Fort Bragg, N.C.




The author, right, with Col. James B. Bartholomees, after a battle south of Danang, South Vietnam, in 1966.


We played a wide range of roles: coordinating artillery and airstrikes, arranging helicopter lifts and medevac and providing intelligence and logistical support. We didn’t give orders, and we didn’t need to. Our Vietnamese counterparts were men we admired, and they were glad to have us — and American firepower — with them. We ate their food. We spoke their language. We trusted the Vietnamese completely. I usually had a paratrooper as a bodyguard and as a radio operator.

Normally, a battalion-level advisory team like mine consisted of three men: an American Army captain, a first lieutenant and a senior noncommissioned officer, usually a sergeant. The sergeants were the core: While officers rotated in and out, many of the sergeants stayed with their assigned South Vietnamese units until the end of the war — or until they were killed or knocked out of the fight.

My introduction to Vietnam was a bloody experience. We deployed by American Navy assault boats and Army helicopters into the swampy river delta south of Saigon. This was combat without glory, fighting and drowning in the saltwater muck. There was none of the adventure that we felt in Ranger school. My captain, an incredibly professional and competent senior adviser, was killed. Back at base, I helped carry his body off the helicopter. It was only the beginning.

Four months into my tour with the airborne we were involved in a giant, bloody battle supporting American Marine units north of Dong Ha, near the coast in the northern part of South Vietnam. Two of our battalions were inserted by helicopter into the Demilitarized Zone to check a significant force of North Vietnamese moving south. It turned into three days of intense and bloody combat. My senior adviser was killed. Our incredibly courageous noncommissioned officer, Master Sgt. Rudy Ortiz, was riddled from head to foot. He asked me to load his M-16 and put it on his chest so that he could “die fighting” with the rest of us (luckily, he survived).






We took hundreds of casualties and came very close to being overrun. But the South Vietnamese paratroopers fought tenaciously. At the critical moment, with supporting air and naval fire, we counterattacked. The executive officer of my Vietnamese battalion walked upright through heavy automatic weapon fire to my foxhole. “Lieutenant,” he told me, “it is time to die now.” It gives me chills to remember his words.

In combat, the South Vietnamese refused to leave their own dead or wounded troopers on the field or abandon a weapon. In another battle one of my West Point classmates, Tommy Kerns, a huge Army football player, was badly wounded and stuck in a narrow trench as his airborne battalion tried to break contact with a large North Vietnamese force. The Vietnamese paratroopers with him, all much smaller than Tommy, couldn’t haul him out of the trench. Rather than withdraw and leave him, they held their ground and won a violent engagement over his giant wounded body. He survived because of their courage.

The America advisers and most of the Airborne Division were stationed in and around Saigon. We loved the energy and fun of the city. We loved the culture and the language and the Vietnamese. We were terribly proud of our status with the Red Berets. We were sure the entire world envied our assignment — we were working with the country’s elite. With combat and airborne pay, we had what seemed like a ton of money. We lived in air-conditioned quarters. We were young and harebrained and aggressive. The American colonels and lieutenant colonels who ran the advisers were older, stable and battle-hardened men who had seen much worse combat in World War II and Korea as paratroopers.

Life as an adviser in the Vietnamese Airborne Division was unpredictable. The division’s job was to serve as a strategic reserve, to be inserted into combat whenever commanders needed an edge. A Vietnamese airborne battalion or a full brigade would be alerted for emergency deployment in the middle of the night. We would cram into American and Vietnamese Air Force transport planes, which sat, engines roaring, in long lines at Ton Son Nhut Air Base, near Saigon. Live ammo would be issued. Sometimes parachutes were issued. A hurried battle plan.
And then — mayhem. The battalions deployed to wherever they were needed. We could head anywhere in the country and find ourselves in the middle of a firefight. Many of the America advisers and hundreds of the Vietnamese paratroopers I served with did not come back from these operations. I can see their young faces still. Capt. Gary Brux. Capt. Bill Deuel. Lt. Chuck Hemmingway. Lt. Carl Arvin. My very young radio operator, Pvt. Michael Randall. All dead. Brave. Proud.

Vietnam wasn’t my first combat tour. After graduating from West Point, I joined the 82nd Airborne Division in the Dominican Republic intervention in 1965. We had deployed to the island and quashed the Cuban-inspired Communist uprising, and then stayed as an Organization of American States peacekeeping force. We thought that was what combat meant, and when we returned to Fort Bragg, we were eager to get to Vietnam — several lieutenants from my infantry battalion jumped into a car and drove all the way to Army headquarters in Washington to volunteer for the battle. We thought we were going to miss the war.

Now we know the end of the story. Two million Vietnamese probably died. The United States lost 58,000 and 303,000 were wounded. America descended into a bitter and convulsive political civil war. We knew nothing of it then. I was so very proud to have been selected to serve with the Vietnamese airborne. My new and beautiful wife, whom I loved dearly, knew I had to go. My dad, an Army general, would honor me if I was killed.

All this was over 50 years ago. The Vietnamese Airborne Division soldiers who survived the collapse of South Vietnam either escaped through Cambodia or went through a decade of brutal “re-education” camps. Most of them eventually made it to the United States. We have an association of the American advisers and our Vietnamese comrades, and there is a memorial to our efforts at Arlington National Cemetery. We gather there every year and remember how we fought together. We wear our red berets. We laugh at our old stories, but there is a deep sadness that we lost so many, and that it came to nothing.

People often ask me about the lessons of the war in Vietnam. Those of us who fought with the Vietnamese Airborne Division are not the ones to ask. All we remember and know is the enduring courage and determination of the Vietnamese Airborne privates pushing forward into battle. They have no monuments except in our memories.

Barry McCaffrey (@mccaffreyr3) served as an adviser in the Vietnamese Airborne Division. He retired as a four-star general, later served as the Clinton administration drug czar and is now a national security commentator for NBC News.

_Subscribe to the Vietnam '67 newsletter._


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## xiao qi

ChineseToTheBone said:


> *Vietnam Bends the Knee to China*
> More proof that in the South China Sea, Beijing is king.
> By Jeremiah Jacques • August 14
> 
> https://www.thetrumpet.com/16157-vietnam-bends-the-knee-to-china
> 
> Here is another recent news article that looks over the development in the South China Sea.


Vietnamese fought Chinese not once or twice since we gained independence, and Chinese dynasties had won over us more than once.
We are scared of China because of all those invasions and superiority. Unlike Korea which was more friendly and dependent toward China in the past to fight against Japan threat, Vietnam didn’t feel so. All we felt about China is admiration, caution and fear
That is why, when things relates to China, Vietnamese usually goes skeptical and irrational, very much so. Even for educated Vietnamese
Vietnamese will be always very irrational toward China. Even more for soldiers. For soldiers patriotism is pushed to extreme . That is why if things relates to China, Vietnamese will not yield, the Vietnamese leaders can’t yield in fact. From What I see about ASEAN, Vietnamese leader is finding the way to confront Chinese threat in SCS.

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## Viet

Well said sis @xiao qi Women can change the world too 







Tran Bich Huong, chief executive of Epomi






Thuy Nguyen, president of US Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, California






14 year golfer Khue Minh






Phuong Thao, CEO of VietJet

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## Viet

Training on oversized 100mm mortar launchers out of domestic production. First batches have been delivered to the infantry.

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## Aqsuperman

ChineseToTheBone said:


> *Vietnam Bends the Knee to China*
> More proof that in the South China Sea, Beijing is king.
> By Jeremiah Jacques • August 14
> 
> https://www.thetrumpet.com/16157-vietnam-bends-the-knee-to-china
> 
> Here is another recent news article that looks over the development in the South China Sea.



Since the mods totally let you trolls run around so guess we can play around a little. 

Hoh hoh hoh bend the knee ? Beijing is king ? Oh sure we will bend the knee then kick China right in the nuts. Happened thousands of times before and we will happy to repeat more. And of course you bring forward "reliable proof" from "Thetrumpet". If my memory is not too shitty then that is the same website with the notorious article comparing Chinese with Japanese and oh boy they bring up some very "interesting stuffs" that will make you curse the site for eternity. Want to me show it in this forum ? Got "very nice" pictures too 

And we thought that after being owned hard by the UK and then the Japanese, Chinese can finally act with brain but noooooo, have to search around for something to make them feel more superior to everyone in the region. Well you can have your wet dream nice and steady. When the time come, better keep your nuts protected 











A PLAN J-15 with engine fire due to bird strike. The pilot manage to make safe landing and the fire was put out before it reach the fuel tank and weapons. Could have wish the the plane crash right at the hangar and kill everyone there but I don't since making low blow is not my thing. But well, if there are still people that wish Vietnam to "Bend the knee" then probably my wish is not too cruel....

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## DarkMoon198

*Vietnam’s Place In The Asian Century*
By Anirban Lahiri

09 Aug 2017







“VIETNAM IS THE ‘NEW CHINA’.” MANY OF US HAVE HEARD THAT phrase before and there is some truth to the statement. A war-ravaged and impoverished country just a few decades ago, Vietnam is associated less today with the Viet Cong tunnels, guerrilla warfare in steamy jungles, and Agent Orange than with humming factories, a swelling middleclass, and its emergence as the new export wonderchild of Asia.

Ever since the introduction of the _doi moi_ (renovation and restructuring) economic reforms in 1986, Vietnam has been on a tear. Apart from a brief period of economic distress and financial volatility experienced from 2009 to 2012, the country has been a development posterchild with sustained gross domestic product (GDP) growth of approximately 6 per cent a year, and is now knocking on the doors of the middle-income club of economies. With a per capita GDP of around US$2,200, the Vietnamese are starting to experience a sustained consumption boom as disposable income is now large enough to kickstart a surge in discretionary spending on everything ranging from entertainment to cars and holidays.

In many ways, Vietnam is a microcosm of the classic Asian development story of recent decades—an erstwhile European colony that shrugs itself free of its oppressors and then turns deeply insular, suspicious of the West and its ideals, only to then emerge from its isolation as an economic tiger riding on the coattails of globalisation and free-trade.

But what makes Vietnam particularly special is that it could well be the last in a generation of Asian economies that have exported their way from rags to riches. Japan in the seventies, Korea and Taiwan in the eighties, Thailand and Malaysia in the nineties, and China in this century all rapidly ascended the economic ladder through exports of manufactured goods, primarily to the West. Low labour costs and foreign investment-friendly policies were the secret sauce, and as wages rose, these trading nations migrated up the value chain from low-end exports of garments, footwear and furniture to automotive parts and electronics. Some of these countries, like Japan and South Korea, went that extra mile to develop their own world class Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) brands, and became world renowned crucibles of technology innovation.

Vietnam has been treading in their footsteps—from exports of furniture and agricultural commodities a couple of decades back, it has become a favoured production hub for textiles and footwear, and is now dabbling seriously with electronics: Samsung has invested close to US$15 billion in factories in Vietnam and accounts for nearly a quarter of the country’s exports. Vietnam is now one of the world’s largest exporters of handsets as well as flat panel televisions—its rapid rise from exporting rice to assembling smart phones would have been inconceivable even ten years ago. A large and young workforce, solid primary education system and its proximity to China’s manufacturing heartland in the Pearl River Delta made Vietnam’s rapid ascendance as an export powerhouse possible. But as automation and robotics loom on the manufacturing horizon, one can’t help but wonder if Vietnam might be the last one to squeeze through the hallowed gates of upper middle-income-hood before offshored manufacturing becomes a relic of the past.

Regardless, Vietnam will be an important contributor to and beneficiary of the Asian Century. First, its highly strategic location and long coastline have already rendered it a geopolitical playground for superpowers. With China, on the one hand, and the United States, Japan, South Korea, and India, on the other, trying to cement their influence in Southeast Asia, Vietnam has been able to successfully play each side off against the other and, in the process, gained concessions from both. The Japanese have been funding the roll-out of hard infrastructure including a nationwide expressway network, and upgrades of airports and urban mass transit systems in Vietnam at a frenetic pace to secure it as the last bastion of Japanese influence in the region amid a sea of China-leaning regimes such as Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia—and more recently—the Philippines.

But to fund nearly half a trillion U.S. dollars of infrastructure investments needed over the next five to ten years, Vietnam is likely to turn to loans from the newly formed Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB)—China’s response to the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank (ADB)—as the flow of overseas assistance from Japan and Western allies tempers in pace.

India, for its part, sees Vietnam as a vital piece in a complex regional chess game with China, and is tightening its relationship with the country as a response to China’s intrusion into its own South Asian backyard—“if you get into my backyard, I will get into yours” seems to be the message India is sending China by deploying its Akash and Brahmos missile systems in Vietnam, and providing training to the Vietnamese armed forces.

Secondly, with China having dominated global manufacturing for over two decades and, given its rising labour costs and economic re-orientation towards domestic consumption, Vietnam stands to benefit enormously. Despite all the talk of South Asia and Africa becoming the next manufacturing export hubs due to large and low-cost labour pools, one must remember the importance of staying plugged into China-centric supply chains. Samsung would not move its factories all the way to western India to assemble handsets for export around the world when several of the handset component suppliers are still in China. Given China’s migration into higher-end manufacturing, Chinese suppliers will only further grow their share of the supply of critical components across a whole array of manufactured wares. This will mean that assembly can never move that far away from China without compromising on supply chain responsiveness.

Enter Vietnam. With its long coastline hugging one of the most important maritime corridors of the world, and only a couple of days by ship away from the mega ports and transshipment hubs of Hong Kong and Singapore, Vietnam has an unparalleled advantage as a choice for factory relocation out of China. As China continues to migrate up the manufacturing value chain, this trend will continue, with Vietnam following in its wake, nibbling away at each stage as China becomes uncompetitive in industries, or stages of the value chain within industries, and moves up one notch at a time along the value chain. Vietnam’s sizeable and young labour force and good quality of basic education and numeracy will only help reinforce this trend.

China’s continued tilt towards domestic consumption presents another huge opportunity for Vietnam. With the country’s 1.3 billion consumers splashing out on a whole range of discretionary purchases, Vietnam’s location could become even more of an asset. Given its proximity to China, Vietnam is the natural choice for setting up factories to export goods into China. As Chinese consumption starts to overshadow consumption in the West, Vietnam could become the favored sourcing hub for a whole range of consumer product categories. This will provide a bulwark against growing protectionism in the West.

With a highly strategic location, a young population of nearly 100 million, a highly literate and numerate workforce, a vibrant consumer class with a demonstrated taste for adoption of new technology, Vietnam is likely to continue its pole-vault towards developed country status. As the country’s economy starts to matter in the region, so will its geopolitical significance.





Anirban Lahiri is a Founder and CEO at MediSetter.

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Training on oversized 100mm mortar launchers out of domestic production. First batches have been delivered to the infantry.


Have you fired this before ?
What you mean by oversized 100mm?
I think this is the 120mm.
Common sizes are 120, 81, 60.
Quite fun firing mortars.
More fun than 155 howitzers.
Because target is not too far, we can see the bombs go off in a nice pattern.
At night, firing Ilum (as in illumination) is like having fireworks.
.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> Have you fired this before ?
> What you mean by oversized 100mm?
> I think this is the 120mm.
> Common sizes are 120, 81, 60.
> Quite fun firing mortars.
> More fun than 155 howitzers.
> Because target is not too far, we can see the bombs go off in a nice pattern.
> At night, firing Ilum (as in illumination) is like having fireworks.
> .


I thought of oversized because the caliber appears too big and weights more than usual on the shoulder of an infantryman. The army should mount the gun on truck that will increase mobility. 100mm is about the gun caliber of VN T54/55 tanks. Yes lots of fun and fireworks when such mortar spits granate. No I have never been in an army, never hold a gun. VN has seen so many wars in history our country shall never see any war again.

This VN military thread seems to be the only english speaking place to learn a bit about her military, history and people. That makes my motivation here to contribute.

Have you joined the army service in Singapore?


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## Nike

Viet said:


> I thought of oversized because the caliber appears too big and weights more than usual on the shoulder of an infantryman. The army should mount the gun on truck that will increase mobility. 100mm is about the gun caliber of VN T54/55 tanks. Yes lots of fun and fireworks when such mortar spits granate. No I have never been in an army, never hold a gun. VN has seen so many wars in history our country shall never see any war again.
> 
> This VN military thread seems to be the only english speaking place to learn a bit about her military, history and people. That makes my motivation here to contribute.
> 
> Have you joined the army service in Singapore?



Every Singaporean mandated to joint National Services once they reach the age, no one can be spared


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## sinait

Viet said:


> I thought of oversized because the caliber appears too big and weights more than usual on the shoulder of an infantryman. The army should mount the gun on truck that will increase mobility. 100mm is about the gun caliber of VN T54/55 tanks. Yes lots of fun and fireworks when such mortar spits granate. No I have never been in an army, never hold a gun. VN has seen so many wars in history our country shall never see any war again.
> 
> This VN military thread seems to be the only english speaking place to learn a bit about her military, history and people. That makes my motivation here to contribute.
> 
> Have you joined the army service in Singapore?


Oh, you are not aware all Singapore males have to do National Service.
I thought most people here have military experience.
Time in the army is quite exciting actually, you have hundreds of active young men whom you can call upon if you ever had a brawl with some gangster, which we do from time to time.
For weapons, not guns but knives, changkols(digging) and parangs(used to cut bushes) are readily available at the army store.

I never seen real action, but have seen colleagues die in military mishaps and its not pretty.
1st time you see intestines flowing out of the stomach and people burning alive can be quite traumatic and for a long time afterwards. During my time all mishaps are confidential.

You should at least fire a rifle and its very enjoyable when you realize you can hit a target so far away.
That is if you are shooting from a prone position and aiming while relaxed and not after a strenuous run.
A pistol is not so easy to fire accurately.

The new mortars are mounted on trucks and fire automatically.
Those in the picture are antics.
Ya, its quite heavy, that barrel alone is around 90kg for that obsolete Singapore model.

Forgot to mention, machine-gun is very fun as well.
Throwing grenades is boring.
.


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## TenLua

Aqsuperman said:


> Since the mods totally let you trolls run around so guess we can play around a little.
> 
> Hoh hoh hoh bend the knee ? Beijing is king ? Oh sure we will bend the knee then kick China right in the nuts. Happened thousands of times before and we will happy to repeat more. And of course you bring forward "reliable proof" from "Thetrumpet". If my memory is not too shitty then that is the same website with the notorious article comparing Chinese with Japanese and oh boy they bring up some very "interesting stuffs" that will make you curse the site for eternity. Want to me show it in this forum ? Got "very nice" pictures too
> 
> And we thought that after being owned hard by the UK and then the Japanese, Chinese can finally act with brain but noooooo, have to search around for something to make them feel more superior to everyone in the region. Well you can have your wet dream nice and steady. When the time come, better keep your nuts protected
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A PLAN J-15 with engine fire due to bird strike. The pilot manage to make safe landing and the fire was put out before it reach the fuel tank and weapons. Could have wish the the plane crash right at the hangar and kill everyone there but I don't since making low blow is not my thing. But well, if there are still people that wish Vietnam to "Bend the knee" then probably my wish is not too cruel....



As much as we would like to deny china of its dominance in the area, fact is, they are the most powerful military in Vietnam's neck of the wood. Just giving credit where credit is due. 

The quality of their military, on the other hand, from the men to their most sophisticated stealth planes are absolute garbage. Its under powered, cant maneuver for shit, inexperienced pilot, ineffective arms, just crap to simply put. America would wipe the floor with chinese weapons of war in a conventional war. Russia is the only match for America.

With that said, the fact that china can produce a stealth plane is quite an accomplishment.

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## Aqsuperman

Great new, boys and girls. The Ministry of Foreign Affair has confirmed what many other have been circulating: Vietnam will recieve the Indian BraMos anti-ship missile. The speakman of the Ministry, Le Thi Thu Hang, has confirmed that Vietnam will purchase the missile and its only a justify action due to "security concerns" and its the right of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to defend herself.

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## AViet

TenLua said:


> As much as we would like to deny china of its dominance in the area, fact is, they are the most powerful military in Vietnam's neck of the wood. Just giving credit where credit is due.
> 
> The quality of their military, on the other hand, *from the men to their most sophisticated stealth planes are absolute garbage*. Its under powered, cant maneuver for shit, inexperienced pilot, ineffective arms, just crap to simply put. America would wipe the floor with chinese weapons of war in a conventional war. Russia is the only match for America.
> 
> With that said, the fact that china can produce a stealth plane is quite an accomplishment.



With Chinese weapons, we defeated the US. And now the US army use Chinese equipment as well.

Regarding the quality of their army, look back at Korea war in 1953. Chinese army together with nearly exhausted North Korean, easily wiped out the coalition of the US and their puppets, although at that time, China was so weak and the US was so strong.

My father and my brother in law both attended the border war with China (my father in 1979 and my brother in law in later years). No one underestimated them. You can read similar stories from first hand experienced persons who fought the war in 1979 from youtube.com. No one underestimated the Chinese army, although most show their deep hatred.

Talking about the war, from South Vietnamese former soldiers, whether about North Vietnamese or Chinese armies, are so funny and naive. I read a lot from vnthuquan.net. No wonder why South Vietnamese government and army was so weak. You are always living in delusion, and like to continue to live like that, just like the Indian.

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## Viet

*With an eye on China, US-Vietnam float closer together*
Hanoi's willingness to host an American aircraft carrier signals stronger future cooperation in the South China Sea and a possible shift in the area's strategic balance 

By HELEN CLARK 
AUGUST 16, 2017 6:07 PM (UTC+8)






A Sea Hawk helicopter prepares to land on the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson in the Philippine Sea. Photo: US Navy handout via Reuters


In a sign of enhanced strategic ties, the United States will send an aircraft carrier to Vietnam, a naval visit that will herald deeper and stronger bilateral cooperation in the South China Sea vis-à-vis China.The announcement came earlier this month when Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich met his American counterpart General Jim Mattis in Washington on August 8. When the American warship docks in Vietnam next year, it will represent the first such US visit since the end of the Vietnam War over four decades ago.

A Pentagon statement on Lich’s red carpet visit to Washington said strong defense relationship “promotes regional and global security” and was based broadly on common interests in “freedom of navigation in the South China Sea”, “respect for international law” and “recognition of national sovereignty.”

The announcement came as Vietnam strives to diversify its defense relations with an eye on China’s island-building and militarization of nearby sea features. In recent months Vietnam has deepened its defense cooperation with India and Japan, both strong US regional allies.

The US and Vietnam are not yet formal strategic partners. The possible emerging quadrilateral all share the values outlined in the US Pentagon statement and a rising suspicion of China’s intentions in the maritime area.





US Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (L) and Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich (R) listen to national anthems during an honor cordon at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, August 8, 2017. Photo: Reuters/Kevin Lamarque


While Vietnam maintains strong strategic ties with neighboring China, part and parcel of its staunchly independent foreign policy, the two sides have jousted more than cooperated in recent months.

That was seen most clearly in China’s strong call on Vietnam to stop energy exploration in contested waters, with some reports claiming Beijing even threatened the use of force if the Spanish energy company, Repsol, it commissioned to conduct the offshore activities in a contested block area did not immediately halt and withdraw. Repsol left the area earlier this week.

Some analysts believe the rising disputes are driving a recalibration of Hanoi’s ‘more friends and fewer enemies’ independent foreign policy towards friendlier US relations. Bilateral ties grew steadily under the previous Barack Obama administration, despite Obama’s priority on human rights promotion, a perennial sticking point in relations.

The Donald Trump administration has given special emphasis to Vietnamese ties, witnessed in Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc’s visit to the White House in May, the only Southeast Asian leader to be received at the West Wing since Trump’s inauguration in January.





US President Donald Trump welcomes Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc at the West Wing Portico (North Lawn) of the White House on May 31, 2017. Photo: Cheriss May


A comprehensive partnership, entered in July 2013, sets out multiple areas of cooperation, including an agreement allowed the US to open its first foreign university on Vietnamese soil (which by local law must teach Marxism-Leninism.) The partnership, touted at the time as a “dramatic transformation” of relations, also includes provisions for “joint maritime capacity building.”

Defense cooperation was hampered previously by a decades-old lethal arms embargo that was only lifted in May last year. The US aircraft carrier visit next year would not have been possible with the embargo in place. Where the US carrier will dock in Vietnam is not yet known, but to send a strong signal to China the obvious spot would be Cam Ranh Bay, a deep water strategic port that faces out onto the South China Sea.

The port already hosts different foreign navies, but the military side of the facility has been off limits to all expect Russia, a Cold War ally and major arms supplier. Greater US access to the facility, particularly in light of losing an earlier envisaged foothold on the Philippine island of Palawan, would provide an immediate strategic advantage against China.

The move towards more US cooperation comes as Vietnam appears to lose a measure of faith in the efficacy of rules-based multilateral organizations to check China’s sea advances. This month’s meeting of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) foreign ministers in Manila was a case in point.





Vietnamese Honor guards raise an Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) flag at a ceremony to mark the 50th anniversary of the regional grouping at Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Hanoi August 8, 2017. Photo: Reuters/Kham


The consensus-based grouping shied from making any joint statement that condemned or even mentioned China’s fast rising militarization of the South China Sea. Vietnam, which previously joined with the Philippines to raise such complaints, now finds itself a lone critical voice as Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte opts to engage rather than confront Beijing.

With rising tensions, China and Vietnam hastily cancelled a planned meeting on the summit’s sidelines, though Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said the meeting had already been held. Still, a China Daily editorial attacked Vietnam’s alleged “hypocrisy” and said its “attempt to sow seeds of discord does a disservice to itself, the other members and the region.”

It’s not clear yet, however, that stronger maritime cooperation with the US will extend beyond freedom of navigation issues. Beijing’s call on Hanoi to stop a foreign company’s exploration activities represented a significant change in tactic from previously threatening to suspend companies’ operations in China to directly leaning on Vietnam for giving the concession.

Apart from Repsol, Vietnam also recently extended Indian state oil company ONGC Videsh’s drilling license by two years in a contested South China Sea area, another move that apparently annoyed China. It is not clear how New Delhi, which has recently sold missiles to Vietnam, would respond if China raised similar hackles to ONGC’s presence in the area.





A Vietnamese naval soldier stands quard at Thuyen Chai island in the Spratly archipelago. Photo: Reuters/Quang Le


A similar question surrounds the US’ substantial offshore energy interests in Vietnam. US oil and gas giant Exxonmobil and Vietnamese state energy firm PetroVietnam signed a US$10 billion agreement to develop the so-called Blue Whale gas field off the country’s central coast in the South China Sea.

The joint venture, Vietnam’s largest gas project, aims to produce gas for power plants by 2023, an important diversification of its current reliance on coal and hydro-power for energy security amid fast-growing demand. PetroVietnam said at the project’s announcement event that it would contribute US$20 billion to state coffers, without giving a time frame.

Vietnam’s willingness to host a US aircraft carrier, a potent symbol of American deterrence, was no doubt influenced by these varied strategic interests. And with Trump set to visit Vietnam in November for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit, the second leader-level meeting in six months, another big bilateral strategic announcement is possible.

http://www.atimes.com/article/eye-china-us-vietnam-float-closer/


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## Viet

AViet said:


> With Chinese weapons, we defeated the US. And now the US army use Chinese equipment as well.
> 
> Regarding the quality of their army, look back at Korea war in 1953. Chinese army together with nearly exhausted North Korean, easily wiped out the coalition of the US and their puppets, although at that time, China was so weak and the US was so strong.
> 
> My father and my brother in law both attended the border war with China (my father in 1979 and my brother in law in later years). No one underestimated them. You can read similar stories from first hand experienced persons who fought the war in 1979 from youtube.com. No one underestimated the Chinese army, although most show their deep hatred.
> 
> Talking about the war, from South Vietnamese former soldiers, whether about North Vietnamese or Chinese armies, are so funny and naive. I read a lot from vnthuquan.net. No wonder why South Vietnamese government and army was so weak. You are always living in delusion, and like to continue to live like that, just like the Indian.


Neearly the entire weapons and aid delivered to North Vietnam came from USSR. the Chinese virtually delivered nothing accept rosty stuffs, the northern Vietnamese soldiers scared to use because Chinese made weapons could explode in their hands unexpectedly.

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## sinait

AViet said:


> With Chinese weapons, we defeated the US. And now the US army use Chinese equipment as well.
> 
> Regarding the quality of their army, look back at Korea war in 1953. Chinese army together with nearly exhausted North Korean, easily wiped out the coalition of the US and their puppets, although at that time, China was so weak and the US was so strong.
> 
> My father and my brother in law both attended the border war with China (my father in 1979 and my brother in law in later years). No one underestimated them. You can read similar stories from first hand experienced persons who fought the war in 1979 from youtube.com. No one underestimated the Chinese army, although most show their deep hatred.
> 
> Talking about the war, from South Vietnamese former soldiers, whether about North Vietnamese or Chinese armies, are so funny and naive. I read a lot from vnthuquan.net. No wonder why South Vietnamese government and army was so weak. You are always living in delusion, and like to continue to live like that, just like the Indian.


Interesting.
Maybe you can post some translated accounts of those stories here.
Or at least 1 or 2 if you don't have time.
I know its tedious to translate when there is no direct equivalents between the languages.
.


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## AViet

sinait said:


> Interesting.
> Maybe you can post some translated accounts of those stories here.
> Or at least 1 or 2 if you don't have time.
> I know its tedious to translate when there is no direct equivalents between the languages.
> .



Sorry, most are video clips. Just type "chiến tranh biên giới việt trung 1979". There may be some in English.

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## jhungary

sinait said:


> Have you fired this before ?
> What you mean by oversized 100mm?
> I think this is the 120mm.
> Common sizes are 120, 81, 60.
> Quite fun firing mortars.
> More fun than 155 howitzers.
> Because target is not too far, we can see the bombs go off in a nice pattern.
> At night, firing Ilum (as in illumination) is like having fireworks.
> .






Viet said:


> I thought of oversized because the caliber appears too big and weights more than usual on the shoulder of an infantryman. The army should mount the gun on truck that will increase mobility. 100mm is about the gun caliber of VN T54/55 tanks. Yes lots of fun and fireworks when such mortar spits granate. No I have never been in an army, never hold a gun. VN has seen so many wars in history our country shall never see any war again.
> 
> This VN military thread seems to be the only english speaking place to learn a bit about her military, history and people. That makes my motivation here to contribute.
> 
> Have you joined the army service in Singapore?



100mm mortar quite common during cold war, in western army, they were usually referred to 4.2 inch mortar. Most country did not use 120mm mortar anymore, and the one that still uses 120mm usually are vehicle mounted, infantry weapon don't generally go up that high, most platoon only carry a 81mm mortar 

Mortar is fun, most crew serve weapon is fun, but we don't fire flare from mortar anymore, we uses NVG now and if you drop flare, you can see your enemy and they can see you, the only time we uses flare is when you call in spectre gunship at night and you need to smoke your own position so they don't hit it, they will come down to 150 ft, make a flare angel and spot your smoke, that will light up a whole mountain like Christmas tree.

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## Farhan Bohra

Aqsuperman said:


> Great new, boys and girls. The Ministry of Foreign Affair has confirmed what many other have been circulating: Vietnam will recieve the Indian BraMos anti-ship missile. The speakman of the Ministry, Le Thi Thu Hang, has confirmed that Vietnam will purchase the missile and its only a justify action due to "security concerns" and its the right of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to defend herself.


That is land version or AShM? Also what is the range of missile? 600 km or 290 km.

BTW, for AShM version, DRDL developed SAR X-band seeker & produced/manufactured by Data Patterns.

















BrahMos Land Version









BrahMos Coastal Defence

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## Farhan Bohra

jhungary said:


> 100mm mortar quite common during cold war, in western army, they were usually referred to 4.2 inch mortar. Most country did not use 120mm mortar anymore, and the one that still uses 120mm usually are vehicle mounted, infantry weapon don't generally go up that high, most platoon only carry a 81mm mortar



US, India, China,, all use 120 mm mortars. These are mostly transported by helicopters in forward base/post.


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## jhungary

Farhan Bohra said:


> US, India, China,, all use 120 mm mortars. These are mostly transported by helicopters in forward base/post.



Well, I did say some country still do use 120mm mortar. US M120 is a classified as heavy weapon (the same category as a M2HB) which is only use in heavy weapon platoon at Company level. Infantry platoon have man-portable 81mm and I have no idea how India or China uses their 120mm mortar, but I do know they are going out of fashion, and even US do think about replacing them...

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## Farhan Bohra

jhungary said:


> Well, I did say some country still do use 120mm mortar. US M120 is a classified as heavy weapon (the same category as a M2HB) which is only use in heavy weapon platoon at Company level. Infantry platoon have man-portable 81mm and I have no idea how India or China uses their 120mm mortar, but I do know they are going out of fashion, and even US do think about replacing them...



Maybe in Europe, but indeed they are not going out of fashion in Asia.
Especially for those countries who fighting in mountains. And thats why US Army also used 120 mm mortars vigorously in Afg.

Indian Army most of the time use 120 mm mortars to target Battalion HQs.

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## Carlosa

Farhan Bohra said:


> That is land version or AShM? Also what is the range of missile? 600 km or 290 km.
> 
> BTW, for AShM version, DRDL developed SAR X-band seeker & produced/manufactured by Data Patterns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrahMos Land Version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrahMos Coastal Defence



Most likely AShM, but there is no details yet.


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## jhungary

Farhan Bohra said:


> Maybe in Europe, but indeed they are not going out of fashion in Asia.
> Especially for those countries who fighting in mountains. And thats why US Army also used 120 mm mortars vigorously in Afg.
> 
> Indian Army most of the time use 120 mm mortars to target Battalion HQs.



Well, most Firebase don't use 120mm mortar in Afghanistan, they started deploying m777 howitzer to take over the M120 duty, most 120 mm mortar are used as mobile shoot and scoop and either put on a trailer or in Stryker.

Personally, I don't find 120mm mortar that useful, when you compare the fire support it gave vs light or pack howitzer, but yeah, I think people will still use it because it is cheap and easy to operate, still, I think it is going out of favour and should be replaced by larger calibre howitzer and smaller but more portable mortar.

but well, that's just me.

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## sinait

jhungary said:


> 100mm mortar quite common during cold war, in western army, they were usually referred to 4.2 inch mortar. Most country did not use 120mm mortar anymore, and the one that still uses 120mm usually are vehicle mounted, infantry weapon don't generally go up that high, most platoon only carry a 81mm mortar
> 
> Mortar is fun, most crew serve weapon is fun, but we don't fire flare from mortar anymore, we uses NVG now and if you drop flare, you can see your enemy and they can see you, the only time we uses flare is when you call in spectre gunship at night and you need to smoke your own position so they don't hit it, they will come down to 150 ft, make a flare angel and spot your smoke, that will light up a whole mountain like Christmas tree.


I think @Viet should try out military life.
The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
When I had my 1st dig in.
The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
We didn't laugh for the next few days.
Its not a joke, this really happened.
.


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## Viet

sinait said:


> I think @Viet should try out military life.
> The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
> When I had my 1st dig in.
> The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
> On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
> We didn't laugh for the next few days.
> Its not a joke, this really happened.
> .


there is a saying in VN: a good man does not join the army. Lol why should I join the army? well unless the chinese or other gangsters run amok, I will join the army for sure like other compariots. VN people tradionally dislike militarism. seriuosly speaking, if we does not possess any external threat, our army can be reduced to a minimum. VN maintains a standing army mainly because of China threat. since we annihilated other powers in the region as Champa, Khmer, Siam kingdoms they don´t play any role more in VN strategic calculus.



Farhan Bohra said:


> US, India, China,, all use 120 mm mortars. These are mostly transported by helicopters in forward base/post.


120mm is a big stuff. VN uses 100mm only I believe.






100mm is about the calibre of anti aircraft gun (KS-19) of VN people´s army deployed during the war. with a little luck, the gun was capable to shoot down B-52 bombers during the battle.


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## ChineseToTheBone

Aqsuperman said:


> Since the mods totally let you trolls run around so guess we can play around a little.


How is posting some relevant article me being a troll?




Aqsuperman said:


> A PLAN J-15 with engine fire due to bird strike. The pilot manage to make safe landing and the fire was put out before it reach the fuel tank and weapons. Could have wish the the plane crash right at the hangar and kill everyone there but I don't since making low blow is not my thing. But well, if there are still people that wish Vietnam to "Bend the knee" then probably my wish is not too cruel....


I am quite glad you posted this actually, since it perfectly demonstrated the skills of Chinese pilots in landing damaged planes as well as the durability of those said planes even after losing one engine.


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## sinait

Viet said:


> there is a saying in VN: a good man does not join the army.
> 120mm is a big stuff. VN uses 100mm only I believe.


The Chinese say the same thing as you.
You are right, this look smaller than the 120mm and this barrel have an extra muzzle.
I think 100mm is a better choice, it should be easier to handle and to carry short distances.
Especially for Vietnamese who are generally shorter.
.


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## xiao qi

sinait said:


> Interesting.
> Maybe you can post some translated accounts of those stories here.
> Or at least 1 or 2 if you don't have time.
> I know its tedious to translate when there is no direct equivalents between the languages.
> .


From What I read from our veterans. They surely don't underestimate Chinese soldiers but also don't evaluate them too good in military skill. Compared the Chinese with South Vietnamese are baseless and no evidence to suppose the Chinese are better than them. The South Vietnam soldiers fought with North VN more than 10 years. In some battles, they are really more outstanding than NV soldiers.



sinait said:


> I think @Viet should try out military life.
> The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
> When I had my 1st dig in.
> The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
> On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
> We didn't laugh for the next few days.
> Its not a joke, this really happened.
> .


In Vietnam, the student including male and female have 2 to 3 months for fighting training. I know It same as in China.

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## Aqsuperman

ChineseToTheBone said:


> How is posting some relevant article me being a troll?
> 
> 
> 
> I am quite glad you posted this actually, since it perfectly demonstrated the skills of Chinese pilots in landing damaged planes as well as the durability of those said planes even after losing one engine.



"Relevant" ? Oh you think that the article with that dehumanizing title is "relevant" to this thread ? As i said before, "Thetrumpet" , or commonly know as "Theshietshow", is not even deserve to be put in the same league as The Sun or tabloids like it. You expect article from that garbage to be "relevant" in here ? With one google click, i can throw at your face thousands of articles that try to analyze this situation with better choices of words and still crap at heart. Or you just never heard about the word "reliable" ? Even better, i can smack your face with American tabloid that prove to be very "relevant" to the USA - China stance in this region. If you find that shitty article of your to be "relevant" then you will love my articles 

And sure, great for that pilot to get out alive. I'm genuinely happy for him. Best result you could hope for after patching together technology from the Soviet era.

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## sinait

xiao qi said:


> From What I read from our veterans. They surely don't underestimate Chinese soldiers but also don't evaluate them too good in military skill. Compared the Chinese with South Vietnamese are baseless and no evidence to suppose the Chinese are better than them. The South Vietnam soldiers fought with North VN more than 10 years. In some battles, they are really more outstanding than NV soldiers.
> 
> In Vietnam, the student including male and female have 2 to 3 months for fighting training. I know It same as in China.


I think Chinese and South and North Vietnamese are all East Asians and therefore have only slight differences either way.
I really feel uncomfortable hearing these fighting each other. Fighting is no fun, really really no fun. 
Its really frightening to fight with knives, bottles and weapons, not to say with guns.
A deep knife wound takes a long time to heal, a few months, and very painful with every movement whenever you turn in your sleep or taking a bath. I know. 
Its also very terrifying when broken bottles fly around you and you have not learned how to catch them with your 2 fingers. And in your terrifying moment you will lose your humanity and strike out viciously. 
Yes, we kill each other out of fright and not bravery. Do not talk lightly about fighting. Its a very cruel thing.
So lets not talk about fighting especially if never ever fought before.

Better to do economic competition.
Lets look forward to when Vietnam will surpass Singapore and how happy your people are.
I think it will be exciting to see Vietnam compete with Indonesia and Philippines.
.

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## Reashot Xigwin

sinait said:


> I think @Viet should try out military life.
> The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
> When I had my 1st dig in.
> The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
> On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
> We didn't laugh for the next few days.
> Its not a joke, this really happened.
> .


Ah yeah I still remember my time during the service. I was training to be a marine in the TNI-AL which is funny because my dad was in the army.

My fondest memory was back when we were forced to march 1k with full gear without any shoes. Thankfuly though it rained yesterday so its easier on everyone & it feels really nice to walk around with a muddy feet.

Good time...

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## sinait

xiao qi said:


> Yes and Luckily, when you and I don't live in the war and suffer the pain because of war. I know the Chinese people are not bad, even with Chinese soldiers who attend the Vietnamese-Sino War, they are simply the farmer I read one novel from Mo Yan, It said like that. When I was a child, My biggest dream It is one time to come to China. When I was 10, the second language I choose to learn It is not English, It is Chinese. At that time I wrote a letter to Chinese radio station to require a Chinese book for my learning. 3 days after the Vietnamese postal worker send me an answer, they said they can't send my letter to cross China border to Beijing. It made me disappointed a long day .


I am not so lucky like you, being young.
I lived through racial riots and have witnessed violence 1st hand.
I truly am saddened by this animosity between your 2 peoples.
Last time they had this letter sold at the post office, forgot the term for it, where you can send to anywhere cheaply at fixed price.
So you wrote in Vietnamese or Chinese. 
Maybe you post it on my profile page so we don't clutter this thread.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ah yeah I still remember my time during the service. I was training to be a marine in the TNI-AL which is funny because my dad was in the army.
> 
> My fondest memory was back when we were forced to march 1k with full gear without any shoes. Thankfuly though it rained yesterday so its easier on everyone & it feels really nice to walk around with a muddy feet.
> 
> Good time...


No Joke.
For us Singaporeans who don't walk around barefoot, our soles are soft, how to march 1k without shoes, and full gear as well. Maybe now think of it, it wasn't so soft then after so much of marching, but still.

Rain will make our skin softer and more readily cut by stones and gravel.
Ya, its fun to think of those good old days.
I missed the rifle shooting.
Simply amazing how accurate the rifle can be.
I have also shot using those old .303 rifle where you get a kick on your shoulder.
.

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## Viet

sinait said:


> I am not so lucky like you, being young.
> I lived through racial riots and have witnessed violence 1st hand.
> I truly am saddened by this animosity between your 2 peoples.
> Last time they had this letter sold at the post office, forgot the term for it, where you can send to anywhere cheaply at fixed price.
> So you wrote in Vietnamese or Chinese.
> Maybe you post it on my profile page so we don't clutter this thread.
> 
> 
> No Joke.
> For us Singaporeans who don't walk around barefoot, our soles are soft, how to march 1k without shoes, and full gear as well. Maybe now think of it, it wasn't so soft then after so much of marching, but still.
> 
> Rain will make our skin softer and more readily cut by stones and gravel.
> Ya, its fun to think of those good old days.
> I missed the rifle shooting.
> Simply amazing how accurate the rifle can be.
> I have also shot using those old .303 rifle where you get a kick on your shoulder.
> .


Nevertheless you can feel happy all things of the past, will never return. Ah you know Vietnamese may constantly talk of the past but we are not people that hang on what can't be changed. We are always for cooperation but if the Chinese think can piss on VN at any occasions that is their choice. We move on.

A new Japanese language school in Saigon like many existing in VN and many more to come.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> there is a saying in VN: a good man does not join the army. Lol why should I join the army? well unless the chinese or other gangsters run amok, I will join the army for sure like other compariots. VN people tradionally dislike militarism. seriuosly speaking, if we does not possess any external threat, our army can be reduced to a minimum. VN maintains a standing army mainly because of China threat. since we annihilated other powers in the region as Champa, Khmer, Siam kingdoms they don´t play any role more in VN strategic calculus.



I dont think National Service aka Conscription should exist anywhere. All should be volunteers.

Some say that is good, but in my opinion such things degrade the moral of army, that Armed Forces even unable to find people who ready to fight for country. That is really discouraging for any army. What kind of message this give to serving NCOs and JCOs? That nobody want to protect or take oath to protect the constitution.

As for Singapore, that is highly secured. I dont know what is the reason for National Service. I can tell you this, there are non disclosed security agreements between India & Singapore.

Such agreements dont exist between any other ASEAN country and India. But if shit hit the roof, Singapore is pretty secured.


----------



## jhungary

sinait said:


> I think @Viet should try out military life.
> The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
> When I had my 1st dig in.
> The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
> On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
> We didn't laugh for the next few days.
> Its not a joke, this really happened.
> .



Soldiering is not a lifestyle that suit everyone, yes, it's good fun when you are up in your barrack and talking or joking with your mate, or go to the range and pop out a few round, or chuck a few grenade and watch it roll back down the hill...It's all good when you experience military service in peacetime, but I can tell you this, War ain't no fun.

I have been to real war twice, been shooting at people. being shot at, I have even once bombed by our own guy, because my platoon made exceptional progress and the CO of my company refused to believe it and he drop arty danger close around me. I have seen people, confident people snap at an instant, people that aren't adapt to the pressure crumble real quick. Combat stress is going to get to most people, and small, mundane everyday task become impossible to do. Hot Meal, Toilet and even down to tissue paper all of a sudden become luxury item, I meant, I was born in a farm, I growth up doing number 2 just about everywhere, but in war? Finding a place you can sit for 10 minutes or so in peace so you can do you thing is hard to come by, and eventually you just don't care, you let it rip in your pants.

Adrenaline run wild when you are in combat. You don't sleep for 1,2 or 3 days straight, not that you don't want to, but you can't, you need to know what happened every moment and every second when you are in combat, you want to know what happened every second, even if it's your turn to get shut eye, you do sleep with 1 eye open, when you are in your crib, you keep eyeing on the doorway/hallway with at least one eye open, thinking about people are going to rush in any minute, if's you are lucky, it's your men, rush in and tell you we are under attack, if you are not, it's the Taliban or the insurgent, they broke thru and come and kill you with your pants up around your ankle...You can do all that during combat, because you run on adrenaline, but when you are airlifted back to your COP or FSB, your adrenaline will be gone, and you are going to be hit with a massive headache

However, if you can stand all that, then you will be awarded by the lifestyle, nothing more accomplishing when you take an objective and to some extend, you may call me a psychopath, but nothing felt better than you kill a man before he kills you, you felt superior, you felt alive. And usually the most amazing thing happened during the worst of a battle, well, otherwise I wouldn't be here talking about it. I was once being bombarded by mortar for 12 hours and when we finally find the guy who is spotting for the Mortar and saw the Apache ahead rocketing the whole hill, we all come out of hiding and cheer the Apache lol, even if mortar still dropping left and right of us.

I wouldn't felt much about camaraderie amongst my men, I was an Officer so, I am not allow to mix with my men, there are an arbitrary boundary I need to set otherwise they will not respect my order, so I wouldn't know much about Combat jab and something like that. In the army, officer are segregated with the man, so most of the time, it may sounded strange to you but you actually felt lonely even when you are with 40 of your men, because, they just can't felt what you feel, you are the one that make all the decision, and the responsibility is you and you alone, and that is what my men does not understand me. Well, it's hard to tell you about it...

But yeah, Military Service is a once in a life time experience, it's adventure for some, redemption for other, then there are always people see that as a responsibility for a nation.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> I dont think National Service aka Conscription should exist anywhere. All should be volunteers.
> 
> Some say that is good, but in my opinion such things degrade the moral of army, that Armed Forces even unable to find people who ready to fight for country. That is really discouraging for any army. What kind of message this give to serving NCOs and JCOs? That nobody want to protect or take oath to protect the constitution.
> 
> As for Singapore, that is highly secured. I dont know what is the reason for National Service. I can tell you this, there are non disclosed security agreements between India & Singapore.
> 
> Such agreements dont exist between any other ASEAN country and India. But if shit hit the roof, Singapore is pretty secured.


That can't be adopted everywhere.

Because it depends on many factors whether national service is best suitable. Israel as a small country with little population but surrounded by numerous enemies has conscription including both men and women. Same goes to Vietnam. Ok VN conscription service only goes for young men not women. When VN defeated the southern Han army and regained independence from China the year of 938, there was a need for establishing a standing army as we were surrounded by enemies. From the northern to the southern front.

Today it is China that still poses the biggest threat to VN national security. Both Israel and Vietnam need a huge standing army. Not to forget the cost factor. Conscription costs less than paying for professional soldiers.

Germany had national service with a giant standing army during the Cold War, but now turns to voluntary service, because the time has changed. Germany faces no longer immediate enemy attack from the eastern front.

Same goes for the United States that also had conscription but now volunteer army. However the reason behind the move is different: the conscription service was blamed for the loss of Vietnam war. The US army today has turned into a professionally run company that kills enemies in most effective ways. One of the results can be witnessed in the Gulf wars.

Vietnam today has zero chance to win a war against the US army.

Singapore sees Malaysia and Indonesia as major threat.

How's about India?

If true India has secret security agreement with Singapore then it is very interesting.

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## sinait

Farhan Bohra said:


> I dont think National Service aka Conscription should exist anywhere. All should be volunteers.
> 
> Some say that is good, but in my opinion such things degrade the moral of army, that Armed Forces even unable to find people who ready to fight for country. That is really discouraging for any army. What kind of message this give to serving NCOs and JCOs? That nobody want to protect or take oath to protect the constitution.
> 
> As for Singapore, that is highly secured. I dont know what is the reason for National Service. I can tell you this, there are non disclosed security agreements between India & Singapore.
> 
> Such agreements dont exist between any other ASEAN country and India. But if shit hit the roof, Singapore is pretty secured.


Conscription army is effective in defense of the homeland and not so much in foreign wars.
Singapore have military training arrangements with US, Taiwan, Brunei, Australia, Thailand and India.
We do not need India's Surgical Strikes in Singapore.
We have experience of the backstabbing and traitorous nature of useless Indian soldiers from WW2.
No Thank You.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Army_in_Singapore
*Indian National Army in Singapore*
.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> That can't be adopted everywhere.
> 
> Because it depends on many factors whether national service is best suitable. Israel as a small country with little population but surrounded by numerous enemies has conscription including both men and women. Same goes to Vietnam. Ok VN conscription service only goes for young men not women. When VN defeated the southern Han army and regained independence from China the year of 938, there was a need for establishing a standing army as we were surrounded by enemies. From the northern to the southern front.
> 
> Today it is China that still poses the biggest threat to VN national security. Both Israel and Vietnam need a huge standing army. Not to forget the cost factor. Conscription costs less than paying for professional soldiers.
> 
> Germany had national service with a giant standing army during the Cold War, but now turns to voluntary service, because the time has changed. Germany faces no longer immediate enemy attack from the eastern front.
> 
> Same goes for the United States that also had conscription but now volunteer army. However the reason behind the move is different: the conscription service was blamed for the loss of Vietnam war. The US army today has turned into a professionally run company that kills enemies in most effective ways. One of the results can be witnessed in the Gulf wars.
> 
> Vietnam today has zero chance to win a war against the US army.
> 
> Singapore sees Malaysia and Indonesia as major threat.
> 
> How's about India?
> 
> If true India has secret security agreement with Singapore then it is very interesting.



All examples were during when a country was in somekind of state of war.

Israel is still in state of war. Germany had to deal with whole Soviet army that any movement capable to capture whole Berlin. 

BTW, India is also still in state of war, if not declaratory one. 


sinait said:


> Conscription army is effective in defense of the homeland and not so much in foreign wars.
> Singapore have military training arrangements with US, Taiwan, Brunei, Australia, Thailand and India.
> We do not need India's Surgical Strikes in Singapore.
> We have experience of the backstabbing and traitorous nature of useless Indian soldiers from WW2.
> No Thank You.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Army_in_Singapore
> *Indian National Army in Singapore*


Why dont you ask with your own Govt. That what are the plans for Sembawang Naval Base? 

Let me tell you some open source info, you can verify this with your own sources. After construction of a full fledged Indian Naval base in Seychelles. India coming in a big way in SCS. 

That is plan of 2015, not a new plan. In 2015, India approached Vietnam for permanent basing rights, that was plan of GoI to deploy warships in SCS permanently. But Vietnam refused for some reasons, and given these rights to Russia. 

After this India approached Singapore for such rights. India plan to construct armament and maintenance depot, and deploy Brahmputra and Rajput class initially. This base come under A&N command. 

And only after these deployments ONGC start building oil and gas rigs in SCS allotted by Vietnam. That plan conceived long ago. 






Block 128 allotted by Vietnam. 

Without these deployments, drilling beyond 9 dash line is almost impossible.

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## frequency

sinait said:


> I think @Viet should try out military life.
> The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
> When I had my 1st dig in.
> The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
> On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
> We didn't laugh for the next few days.
> Its not a joke, this really happened.
> .



A war cannot be won without soldiers. Soldiers cannot win without the support of weapons. Weapons cannot be made without a team of engineers. You cannot be an engineer without an education.

In the end, a war can be won without a fight. Brain power is more lethal than anything in the world. That is why knowledge is power. Someone with a bigger brain can destroy an entire city in one blow or end a war in 2 blows.

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## sinait

Farhan Bohra said:


> Why dont you ask with your own Govt. That what are the plans for Sembawang Naval Base?
> 
> Let me tell you some open source info, you can verify this with your own sources. After construction of a full fledged Indian Naval base in Seychelles. India coming in a big way in SCS.
> 
> That is plan of 2015, not a new plan. In 2015, India approached Vietnam for permanent basing rights, that was plan of GoI to deploy warships in SCS permanently. But Vietnam refused for some reasons, and given these rights to Russia.
> 
> After this India approached Singapore for such rights. India plan to construct armament and maintenance depot, and deploy Brahmputra and Rajput class initially. This base come under A&N command.
> 
> And only after these deployments ONGC start building oil and gas rigs in SCS allotted by Vietnam. That plan conceived long ago.
> 
> Block 128 allotted by Vietnam.
> 
> Without these deployments, drilling beyond 9 dash line is almost impossible.


Singapore has said before we are neutral and open for business to friendly nations who will pay for docking services in our ports.
We welcome the US, China.
If Indian sucker wants to pay us as well, we are glad to take that money.
You are an excellent example of that Big Talking Claim the Skies Indian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Naval_Base
Since 2002, Singapore has granted the Indian Navy *in principle access* to Sembawang Port and Indian patrol boats *escorting American Naval ships* through the straights of Malacca.
So India is in Singapore since 2002 by grace of being lapdog of USA.
You talk as if India Supa Powa want to turn Sembawang into your offshore base.

If Singapore is dependent on India for its defense, then you should ask Modi to rescind it since Singapore dared to "*Singapore blocks visas for Indian IT professionals*".
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ian-it-professionals/articleshow/57981840.cms

@xiao qi, this is a good example of Indian bragging for you.
Lets not clutter this thread with more Indian garbage.
.

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## Farhan Bohra

sinait said:


> Singapore has said before we are neutral and open for business to friendly nations who will pay for docking services in our ports.
> We welcome the US, China.
> If Indian sucker wants to pay us as well, we are glad to take that money.
> You are an excellent example of that Big Talking Claim the Skies Indian.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Naval_Base
> Since 2002, Singapore has granted the Indian Navy *in principle access* to Sembawang Port and Indian patrol boats *escorting American Naval ships* through the straights of Malacca.
> So India is in Singapore since 2002 by grace of being lapdog of USA.
> You talk as if India Supa Powa want to turn Sembawang into your offshore base.
> 
> If Singapore is dependent on India for its defense, then you should ask Modi to rescind it since Singapore dared to "*Singapore blocks visas for Indian IT professionals*".
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ian-it-professionals/articleshow/57981840.cms
> 
> @xiao qi, this is a good example of Indian bragging for you.
> Lets not clutter this thread with more Indian garbage.
> .


Bragging? India vowed to protect Singapore even since before you are born. And that was requested by your own country.







Read your own history before claiming any more bullshit. Please read it.



sinait said:


> "*Singapore blocks visas for Indian IT professionals*".
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ian-it-professionals/articleshow/57981840.cms
> 
> 
> .



And as for this, Singapore violated this agreement 
https://www.iesingapore.gov.sg/Trad...ational-Agreements/free-trade-agreements/CECA

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## sinait

frequency said:


> A war cannot be won without soldiers. Soldiers cannot win without the support of weapons. Weapons cannot be made without a team of engineers. You cannot be an engineer without an education.
> 
> In the end, a war can be won without a fight. Brain power is more lethal than anything in the world. That is why knowledge is power. Someone with a bigger brain can destroy an entire city in one blow or end a war in 2 blows.


You are so right man, digging trenches with small tools is so slow and so 20th century.
Only consolation was we were told the Israelis can to do it with even smaller tools.
The crawler would have done it in a few hours instead of a few days and many backaches and hand blisters.
Trenches dug by crawlers would be much nicer and sturdy with beautifully formed drainage that would withstand the rains.
Just like Self Propelled Guns are replacing Towed Guns, Speed is the essence.

We were having a picnic(literally) party, waiting for the crawlers that never came.
After torturing us for a few days we had to come back and do it again as punishment.

Singapore Armed Forces have made many reforms and incorporated new technologies.
It is a potent force and we don't need any assistance from any 3rd world country.
Would be Invaders and Intruders beware.
.



Farhan Bohra said:


> Bragging? India vowed to protect Singapore even since before you are born. And that was requested by your own country.


You can keep your low grade and smelly soldiers in India and defend from the enemies Modi keeps making for India.
Singapore is no longer at 1965, and will protect ourselves.
India is welcomed to continue to pay us for docking services in our excellent ports.
.


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## Farhan Bohra

sinait said:


> Y
> .
> 
> 
> You can keep your low grade and smelly soldiers in India and defend from the enemies Modi keeps making for India.
> Singapore is no longer at 1965, and will protect ourselves.


As I said before, you even dont know how many powers invested how much in Singapore in protecting it.


> India is welcomed to continue to pay us for docking services in our excellent ports.
> .


That is not a docking service.

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## Viet

*2016 Pulitzer Prizes*
JOURNALISM

For distinguished fiction published in book form during the year by an American author, preferably dealing with American life, Ten thousand dollars ($10,000).

*The Sympathizer, by Viet Thanh Nguyen (Grove Press)*
A layered immigrant tale told in the wry, confessional voice of a "man of two minds" -- and two countries, Vietnam and the United States.






Columbia University President Lee C. Bollinger (left) presents the 2016 Fiction Prize to Viet Thanh Nguyen.
*WINNING WORK*

*The Sympathizer*
By Viet Thanh Nguyen






A profound, startling, and beautifully crafted debut novel, _The Sympathizer _is the story of a man of two minds, someone whose political beliefs clash with his individual loyalties. In dialogue with but diametrically opposed to the narratives of the Vietnam War that have preceded it, this novel offers an important and unfamiliar new perspective on the war: that of a conflicted communist sympathizer.

It is April 1975, and Saigon is in chaos. At his villa, a general of the South Vietnamese army is drinking whiskey and, with the help of his trusted captain, drawing up a list of those who will be given passage aboard the last flights out of the country. The general and his compatriots start a new life in Los Angeles, unaware that one among their number, the captain, is secretly observing and reporting on the group to a higher-up in the Viet Cong.
_
The Sympathizer _is the story of this captain: a man brought up by an absent French father and a poor Vietnamese mother, a man who went to university in America, but returned to Vietnam to fight for the Communist cause. Viet Thanh Nguyen’s astonishing novel takes us inside the mind of this double agent, a man whose lofty ideals necessitate his betrayal of the people closest to him. A gripping spy novel, an astute exploration of extreme politics, and a moving love story, _The Sympathizer _explores a life between two worlds and examines the legacy of the Vietnam War in literature, film, and the wars we fight today.

_-- from the publisher_

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> *2016 Pulitzer Prizes*
> JOURNALISM
> 
> For distinguished fiction published in book form during the year by an American author, preferably dealing with American life, Ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
> 
> *The Sympathizer, by Viet Thanh Nguyen (Grove Press)*
> A layered immigrant tale told in the wry, confessional voice of a "man of two minds" -- and two countries, Vietnam and the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Columbia University President Lee C. Bollinger (left) presents the 2016 Fiction Prize to Viet Thanh Nguyen.
> *WINNING WORK*
> 
> *The Sympathizer*
> By Viet Thanh Nguyen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A profound, startling, and beautifully crafted debut novel, _The Sympathizer _is the story of a man of two minds, someone whose political beliefs clash with his individual loyalties. In dialogue with but diametrically opposed to the narratives of the Vietnam War that have preceded it, this novel offers an important and unfamiliar new perspective on the war: that of a conflicted communist sympathizer.
> 
> It is April 1975, and Saigon is in chaos. At his villa, a general of the South Vietnamese army is drinking whiskey and, with the help of his trusted captain, drawing up a list of those who will be given passage aboard the last flights out of the country. The general and his compatriots start a new life in Los Angeles, unaware that one among their number, the captain, is secretly observing and reporting on the group to a higher-up in the Viet Cong.
> _
> The Sympathizer _is the story of this captain: a man brought up by an absent French father and a poor Vietnamese mother, a man who went to university in America, but returned to Vietnam to fight for the Communist cause. Viet Thanh Nguyen’s astonishing novel takes us inside the mind of this double agent, a man whose lofty ideals necessitate his betrayal of the people closest to him. A gripping spy novel, an astute exploration of extreme politics, and a moving love story, _The Sympathizer _explores a life between two worlds and examines the legacy of the Vietnam War in literature, film, and the wars we fight today.
> 
> _-- from the publisher_


I know this man, I followed his facebook. i dont like his novels.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> I know this man, I followed his facebook. i dont like his novels.


Why don't you like his book? Is it because his style of writing? I read some pages he seems to have humor taking everything on light shoulder. The English speaking media love him though. For a debut novel it is not too bad.

Prizes:

Winner of the 2016 Pulitzer Prize for Fiction

Winner of the 2016 Edgar Award for Best First Novel

Winner of the 2016 Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction

Winner of the 2016 Dayton Literary Peace Prize for Fiction

Winner of the 2015 Center for Fiction First Novel Prize

Winner of the 2015-2016 Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature (Adult Fiction)

Winner of the 2016 California Book Award for First Fiction

Finalist for the 2016 PEN/Faulkner Award

Finalist for the 2016 PEN/Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction

Finalist for the 2016 Medici Book Club Prize

Finalist for the 2015 _Los Angeles Times_ Book Prize (Mystery/Thriller)

Finalist for the 2016 ABA Indies Choice/E.B. White Read-Aloud Award (Book of the Year, Adult Fiction)

Named a Best Book of the Year on more than twenty lists, including the _New York Times Book Review_, _Wall Street Journal_, and _Washington Post_

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## Viet

At the recent US/JP security meeting in Washington, the Japanese open the money wallet and dish out additional $500 million for her neighbors to enhance maritime security, with Vietnam and Philippines receiving the major part of the money. Both will get 16 vessels. So 8 for VN, 8 for the PN. Together with the 6, the Japanese promises previously, VN will receive 14 boats in total.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20170818_18/

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## nautilaceae

Farhan Bohra said:


> Bragging? India vowed to protect Singapore even since before you are born. And that was requested by your own country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read your own history before claiming any more bullshit. Please read it.
> 
> 
> And as for this, Singapore violated this agreement
> https://www.iesingapore.gov.sg/Trad...ational-Agreements/free-trade-agreements/CECA



India vowed to protect Singapore? Where did you get that from?
India turned down Singapore request, Indian PM did not even reply to Lee Kuan Yew. Even your source stated it, read it again.

In the end, Singapore got help from Israeli military, which antagonized the hell out of Malaysia and Indonesia.


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## Viet

*Thailand and Vietnam: Stronger together*

Bangkok Post
15 Aug 2017

The Ben Thanh Market, which is one of the most popular places for visitors to Ho Chi Minh City. A variety of goods are on sale, and many of the vendors can communicate in Thai, with most shops accepting the baht.

In Asean, Vietnam is Thailand's only strategic partner. Three points in particular underpin the countries' unique ties. First of all, the days of Thailand and Vietnam fighting are over. Gone are the three centuries of conflict, when the region was plagued by territorial conquests and tribal rivalries. There were also times the two countries cooperated to ward off external threats.

Finally, today bilateral relations are moving toward a new plateau, with stronger strategic and economic components. When Vietnamese Prime Minister Nyugen Xuan Phuoc arrives in Bangkok this weekend for a three day visit, Thailand is ready to embrace Vietnam as never before.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1306223/thailand-and-vietnam-stronger-together


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## Viet

*Kalibr Cruise Missile *

This missile test is of special interest for the Vietnam I believe because the Kilo submarines carry the same weapon. Russia nuclear attack submarine Severodvinsk fires a Kalibr land attack cruise missile while submerged against a distant target in 600 km away.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Why don't you like his book? Is it because his style of writing? I read some pages he seems to have humor taking everything on light shoulder. The English speaking media love him though. For a debut novel it is not too bad.
> 
> Prizes:
> 
> Winner of the 2016 Pulitzer Prize for Fiction
> 
> Winner of the 2016 Edgar Award for Best First Novel
> 
> Winner of the 2016 Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction
> 
> Winner of the 2016 Dayton Literary Peace Prize for Fiction
> 
> Winner of the 2015 Center for Fiction First Novel Prize
> 
> Winner of the 2015-2016 Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature (Adult Fiction)
> 
> Winner of the 2016 California Book Award for First Fiction
> 
> Finalist for the 2016 PEN/Faulkner Award
> 
> Finalist for the 2016 PEN/Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction
> 
> Finalist for the 2016 Medici Book Club Prize
> 
> Finalist for the 2015 _Los Angeles Times_ Book Prize (Mystery/Thriller)
> 
> Finalist for the 2016 ABA Indies Choice/E.B. White Read-Aloud Award (Book of the Year, Adult Fiction)
> 
> Named a Best Book of the Year on more than twenty lists, including the _New York Times Book Review_, _Wall Street Journal_, and _Washington Post_


If you wacht these video like that and read his novel, you know the reason why


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> If you wacht these video like that and read his novel, you know the reason why


I watched the video. That shows battle scenes of the Vietnam war. Also I read parts of his novel. Make your point sis.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> I watched the video. That shows battle scenes of the Vietnam war. Also I read parts of his novel. Make your point sis.


A long time, I see his post and read his novel. Sure, His novel, big part of them are concentrating on Vietnam War. I know he is a refugee and his family was affected by this war, and It inspired him so much. But this time is to heal the wounds of war between two sides of Vietnamese. Maybe some of his novels are true and expose the truth, not his imagination, I don't know, But I don't support for his novel. Example:"_The Sympathizer _is the story of this captain: a man brought up by an absent French father and a poor Vietnamese mother, a man who went to university in America, but returned to Vietnam to fight for the Communist cause". What does he want to transmit to the reader through this novel? I don't understand. Lol, so ridiculous.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> A long time, I see his post and read his novel. Sure, His novel, big part of them are concentrating on Vietnam War. I know he is a refugee and his family was affected by this war, and It inspired him so much. But this time is to heal the wounds of war between two sides of Vietnamese. Maybe some of his novels are true and expose the truth, not his imagination, I don't know, But I don't support for his novel. Example:"_The Sympathizer _is the story of this captain: a man brought up by an absent French father and a poor Vietnamese mother, a man who went to university in America, but returned to Vietnam to fight for the Communist cause". What does he want to transmit to the reader through this novel? I don't understand. Lol, so ridiculous.


Sis It's a fictional novel, no need to take it too serious.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Sis It's a fictional novel, no need to take it too serious.


In Chinese novel, they usually build and express their self-respect for the nation and inspire it to the reader, viewer.OK, maybe the comparison is lame and not suitable to the Vietnamese status. But It is one thing we should learn from them. I know many Vietnamese people in oversea want to contribute to the developing of Vietnam. Yes, It is also a good example for him, me and you. Why did some of us keep the past? Take it away and look forward in the future.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> In Chinese novel, they usually build and express their self-respect for the nation and inspire it to the reader, viewer.OK, maybe the comparison is lame and not suitable to the Vietnamese status. But It is one thing we should learn from them. I know many Vietnamese people in oversea want to contribute to the developing of Vietnam. Yes, It is also a good example for him, me and you. Why did some of us keep the past? Take it away and look forward in the future.


There are still lots of exile Vietnamese that can't move on. Both old and young generations. Lots of hardcore republican vietnamese are settled down in America, Canada and Australia even here in Germany where you see people singing republican song and fly yellow flag. Something between tradition, surreale and satire. That comes in mind when seeing such on stage or in the public.

Although nobody should doubt their love for the homeland and patriotism.

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## Viet

Apropos vietnamese people in Australia, accidentally coming across with this news including seeing the fight on internet:

Martin Nguyen became Australia’s first One Championship world champion 2017 in 145 pounds category. The fight happening in Kuala Lumpur on last Friday night is something a mix of Boxen and brutal Street fighting. Martin came close to a defeat when he receives hit after hit by his opponent Marat Gafurov. At the most critical moment Martin Nguyen lands a devastating right fist on Marat sending him down to the floor. The revenge is perfect. Martin lost the fight against Marat two years ago. Marat was seen as undefeatable as he never lost a fight.

Vietnam fighting spirit.














@jhungary

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## Viet

A good example of Vietnam/Germany/Japan cooperation. For the first time ever at the german seaport "Cuxhafen", a Japanese transport vessel is loaded by heavy machineries and other industrial products made by German companies heading for Vietnam.

The Japanese "Imari" needs 40 days to reach Saigon.

Desirable if we can establish a permanent trade flow between Vietnam and Germany. The Japanese shipping company has 600 vessels to offer. The Germans can load Leopard tanks on the vessels, while Vietnam can dispatch smartphones to Germany in return.






http://www.cn-online.de/stadt-land/news/premiere-fracht-fuer-vietnam.html

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> A good example of Vietnam/Germany/Japan cooperation. For the first time ever at the german seaport "Cuxhafen", a Japanese transport vessel is loaded by heavy machineries and other industrial products made by German companies heading for Vietnam.
> 
> The Japanese "Imari" needs 40 days to reach Saigon.
> 
> Desirable if we can establish a permanent trade flow between Vietnam and Germany. The Japanese shipping company has 600 vessels to offer. The Germans can load Leopard tanks on the vessels, while Vietnam can dispatch smartphones to Germany in return.
> 
> View attachment 419671
> 
> 
> http://www.cn-online.de/stadt-land/news/premiere-fracht-fuer-vietnam.html


German also can load our corrupted officers habouring in German, JP and send them all back to VN...other while we have to sent our spies to those fascist nations and 'kidnap' our bad guys


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> German also can load our corrupted officers habouring in German, JP and send them all back to VN...other while we have to sent our spies to those fascist nations and 'kidnap' our bad guys


Today both Germany and Japan are not fascist countries. Second, "kidnapping" is very bad idea that harms VN enormously. It is better to go the legal way.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Apropos vietnamese people in Australia, accidentally coming across with this news including seeing the fight on internet:
> 
> Martin Nguyen became Australia’s first One Championship world champion 2017 in 145 pounds category. The fight happening in Kuala Lumpur on last Friday night is something a mix of Boxen and brutal Street fighting. Martin came close to a defeat when he receives hit after hit by his opponent Marat Gafurov. At the most critical moment Martin Nguyen lands a devastating right fist on Marat sending him down to the floor. The revenge is perfect. Martin lost the fight against Marat two years ago. Marat was seen as undefeatable as he never lost a fight.
> 
> Vietnam fighting spirit.
> 
> View attachment 419645
> 
> View attachment 419636
> 
> View attachment 419644
> 
> 
> @jhungary



lol lucky shot.



Viet said:


> A good example of Vietnam/Germany/Japan cooperation. For the first time ever at the german seaport "Cuxhafen", a Japanese transport vessel is loaded by heavy machineries and other industrial products made by German companies heading for Vietnam.
> 
> The Japanese "Imari" needs 40 days to reach Saigon.
> 
> Desirable if we can establish a permanent trade flow between Vietnam and Germany. The Japanese shipping company has 600 vessels to offer. The Germans can load Leopard tanks on the vessels, while Vietnam can dispatch smartphones to Germany in return.
> 
> View attachment 419671
> 
> 
> http://www.cn-online.de/stadt-land/news/premiere-fracht-fuer-vietnam.html



I highly doubt the Germans would need/use Vietnamese made smart phones.



Viet said:


> *Thailand and Vietnam: Stronger together*
> 
> Bangkok Post
> 15 Aug 2017
> 
> The Ben Thanh Market, which is one of the most popular places for visitors to Ho Chi Minh City. A variety of goods are on sale, and many of the vendors can communicate in Thai, with most shops accepting the baht.
> 
> In Asean, Vietnam is Thailand's only strategic partner. Three points in particular underpin the countries' unique ties. First of all, the days of Thailand and Vietnam fighting are over. Gone are the three centuries of conflict, when the region was plagued by territorial conquests and tribal rivalries. There were also times the two countries cooperated to ward off external threats.
> 
> Finally, today bilateral relations are moving toward a new plateau, with stronger strategic and economic components. When Vietnamese Prime Minister Nyugen Xuan Phuoc arrives in Bangkok this weekend for a three day visit, Thailand is ready to embrace Vietnam as never before.
> 
> http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1306223/thailand-and-vietnam-stronger-together
> 
> 
> View attachment 419397
> View attachment 419398
> View attachment 419399
> View attachment 419400
> View attachment 419401
> View attachment 419402
> View attachment 419403
> View attachment 419404
> View attachment 419405
> View attachment 419406



When I was working as a waiter with a lot of Thai people, they like to compare themselves to Vietnamese and say how much better they are than Vietnam lol.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Today both Germany and Japan are not fascist countries. Second, "kidnapping" is very bad idea that harms VN enormously. It is better to go the legal way.


They still playing dirty tricks and support dirty-corrupted guys like fascist. They r defacing themselves when keep habourring those criminal



TenLua said:


> When I was working as a waiter with a lot of Thai people, they like to compare themselves to Vietnamese and say how much better they are than Vietnam lol.


Remind them the time we beat them up from 1979 to 1988 
*Vietnamese border raids in Thailand*
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_border_raids_in_Thailand*


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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> When I was working as a waiter with a lot of Thai people, they like to compare themselves to Vietnamese and say how much better they are than Vietnam lol.



They do that with everybody, particularly with people from Burma and Cambodia. Thai people are very xenophobic, they try to hide it, but they are, they see themselves as the superior culture of southeast Asia. They are actually quite useless, the business class in Thailand are all Thai-Chinese and other than them, they don't excel at anything. They are nice and polite which is good for tourism and customer service (something that Vietnam could use) but that's about it.



Viva_Viet said:


> Remind them the time we beat them up from 1979 to 1988
> *Vietnamese border raids in Thailand*
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_border_raids_in_Thailand*



Even tiny Laos beat them up. When it comes to fighting, unless they have overwhelming superiority of forces, Thais will run in the direction opposite to the fighting.

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## Viet

Ok posting some recent events

Old but like Ak47 rifle still good and reliable: P35B antiship missile range 500km now new with improved missile guidance system

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## Viet

Also old stuff: Mi17 attack helicopter with unguided s5 rockets













That is new: Airbus C295M transport aircraft



















As well, making old to new. Xi Jinping promotes PLA General Li Zuocheng not only to the military commander of the Chengdu military region but also gives him the powerful role of vice-chairman of Central Military Commission (CMC). The body that commands Chinese armed forces.

As company commander, Li Zuocheng has proved his loyalty to the party in the brutal 1979 war against Vietnam. He is awarded by a hero title with first class merit, although the people of Vietnam will see him as war criminal and the PLA as criminal organization.

Anyway congrats.

We may see him again.


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## Viet

Converting anti aircraft 23mm twin gun into naval cannon

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> As well, making old to new. Xi Jinping promotes PLA General Li Zuocheng not only to the military commander of the Chengdu military region but also gives him the powerful role of vice-chairman of Central Military Commission (CMC). The body that commands Chinese armed forces.
> 
> As company commander, Li Zuocheng has proved his loyalty to the party in the brutal 1979 war against Vietnam. He is awarded by a hero title with first class merit, although the people of Vietnam will see him as war criminal and the PLA as criminal organization.
> 
> Anyway congrats.
> 
> We may see him again.
> 
> View attachment 420023
> 
> View attachment 420024



So funny thing I find on Chinese wiki about this guy:


> 1979年2月17日，李作成所率领的41集团军的8连奉命参加对越战争，协同战友与越军进行了26个日夜的血战[1]，李作成的共歼敌194名，歼灭越军2个公安屯的公安军，击退越军1营[3]。全连也因此立下集体一等功，被中央军委命名为“尖刀英雄连”，而李作成被授予“战斗英雄”称号[4]。在1982年的中共十二大上李作成当选主席团成员[4]。1983年李作成被调至广西军区边境担任边防团团长，在之后1984年的老山战役的炮战中，李作成所率领的部队守卫了其研究所所在的东兴镇[3]。


 It said this guy belongs to the 8th company, 41st group army. Ony 26 days, he and his company ( 15 to 20 man for one company) kill 194 Vietnamese soldiers and Repel a battalion. I also search the information about 41st group army and know they fought in Cao Bang where the Chinese soldiers outnumbered Vietnamese soldier 15 times or more than. So strange when one Chinese company fought with one Vietnam battalion and could defeat them.

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> So funny thing I find on Chinese wiki about this guy: It said this guy belongs to the 8th company, 41st group army. Ony 26 days, he and his company ( 15 to 20 man for one company) kill 194 Vietnamese soldiers and Repel a battalion. I also search the information about 41st group army and know they fought in Cao Bang where the Chinese soldiers outnumbered Vietnamese soldier 15 times or more than. So strange when one Chinese company fought with one Vietnam battalion and could defeat them.


Good info sis. Well if true, then no surprise he receives the hero title first class merit of the people's republic of China. The hero of China. The hero for all Chinese both young and old. Books will be written. He and his company defeated the best army in the world: Vietnam. Not bad. Should he one day decide to write a memoir after retirement I will be the first to buy his book.

When I was a young teen I loved reading Chinese novels with beautiful girls and powerful men fighting by sword and magic. Unfortunately when getting older (and no more illusion) I have to say: so fantasy, bragging has limits.

Keep posting sis!

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Good info sis. Well if true, then no surprise he receives the hero title first class merit of the people's republic of China. The hero of China. The hero for all Chinese both young and old. Books will be written. He and his company defeated the best army in the world: Vietnam. Not bad. Should he one day decide to write a memoir after retirement I will be the first to buy his book.
> 
> When I was a young teen I loved reading Chinese novels with beautiful girls and powerful men fighting by sword and magic. Unfortunately when getting older (and no more illusion) I have to say: so fantasy, bragging has limits.
> 
> Keep posting sis!



What can I say? Made in china heros have very low standard with back stories that are more than questionable. Elsewhere in the world, heroes are those who defy the odds, while in china, heroes are those who prevail while the odds are stacked infinitely in their favor.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> What can I say? Made in china heros have very low standard with back stories that are more than questionable. Elsewhere in the world, heroes are those who defy the odds, while in china, heroes are those who prevail while the odds are stacked infinitely in their favor.


Ja chinese heros are numerous in history, but you probably know too, actually no any problem at all for our people as long as they appear in novels nor they don't act as butcher in wars against Vietnam. Ah a news that made me nearly falling down from the chair.

On a recent event organized by Australian National University, when asked, Admiral Scott Swift, the commander of the US Pacific Fleet, responded he would launch nuclear strike on China without thinking a second by the order of Donald Trump. The US seriously thinks of First Strike.

Beautiful pictures of Scott Swift's visit to Vietnam some time ago. The firepower of 200 warships including submarines and 1,100 naval aircraft can devastate an entire continent.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Ja chinese heros are numerous in history, but you probably know too, actually no any problem at all for our people as long as they appear in novels nor they don't act as butcher in wars against Vietnam. Ah a news that made me nearly falling down from the chair.
> 
> On a recent event organized by Australian National University, when asked, Admiral Scott Swift, the commander of the US Pacific Fleet, responded he would launch nuclear strike on China without thinking a second by the order of Donald Trump. The US seriously thinks of First Strike.
> 
> Beautiful pictures of Scott Swift's visit to Vietnam some time ago. The firepower of 200 warships including submarines and 1,100 naval aircraft can devastate an entire continent.
> 
> View attachment 420104
> 
> View attachment 420105
> View attachment 420107


Have one Jap soldier in WW2 I really admire It is Sakai Taburo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburō_Sakai


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Apropos vietnamese people in Australia, accidentally coming across with this news including seeing the fight on internet:
> 
> Martin Nguyen became Australia’s first One Championship world champion 2017 in 145 pounds category. The fight happening in Kuala Lumpur on last Friday night is something a mix of Boxen and brutal Street fighting. Martin came close to a defeat when he receives hit after hit by his opponent Marat Gafurov. At the most critical moment Martin Nguyen lands a devastating right fist on Marat sending him down to the floor. The revenge is perfect. Martin lost the fight against Marat two years ago. Marat was seen as undefeatable as he never lost a fight.
> 
> Vietnam fighting spirit.
> 
> View attachment 419645
> 
> View attachment 419636
> 
> View attachment 419644
> 
> 
> @jhungary



Didn't do boxing and MMA so I have never heard of him..........


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> Have one Jap soldier in WW2 I really admire It is Sakai Taburo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburō_Sakai


I like Japanese bushido code that demands everyone to fight to the bitter end. nevertheless it is brutal behavior and worthless sacrifice the Japanese had done to other and themselves in the very last days until surrender. Although there are light and shadow with the Japanese army. They put a great fight in battles of Iwo Jima and Okinawa against the US with fighting lasting for months but collapsed within days when the USSR Red Army launched a 3,000 km giant pincer movement in the Manchuria. That is dishonorable for Japan.







Ah I believe not everyone knows it: Vietnamese army adopted similar tactic by launching a great pincer movement against the Cambodia Red Khmer army in 1978: one on the west by a tank army and one on the south by landing of Marines supported by warships, bringing the entire Cambodia army to collapse within 2 weeks.

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## Viet

Su30 fighter aircraft taking off for live fire exercise

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## Viet

Beach assault by Marines

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## Viet

*Turkey and Vietnam look to double trade, deepen defense ties*

By Associated Press07:47 BST 23 Aug 2017, updated 08:47 BST 23 Aug 2017


HANOI, Vietnam (AP) - Turkey's prime minister said Wednesday he wants to double trade volume with Vietnam to $4 billion in the next three years as his country seeks to boost cooperation with the Southeast Asian country.

Binali Yildirim was making his first visit to Vietnam as prime minister, accompanied by a large business delegation.

"I believe that our bilateral trade volume will reach $4 billion by 2020 and that's doable," Yildirim told reporters during a briefing with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc. The bilateral trade currently stands at $2 billion a year.





Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim, left, shakes hands with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc before the two headed for talks behind closed doors in Hanoi, Vietnam Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2017. Yildirim is on a two-day visit to the Southeast Asian country to boost trade and defense ties between the two countries. (AP Photo/Tran Van Minh)


Phuc told reporters the two committed to creating favorable conditions for businesses from both countries to promote mutual trade and investment.

"There are special areas where our mutual cooperation can immediately be initiated, primarily the defense industry," Yildirim said during talks with Vietnam's prime minister.

Details on defense cooperation were not immediately disclosed, but Vietnam has in recent years sought to modernize its military with the purchase of six submarines and new jet fighters from Russia, its traditional weapons supplier, in the face of Chinese assertiveness in pressing Beijing's territorial claims in disputed South China Sea waters.

China claims most of the South China Sea, which is believed to sit on rich natural resources and occupies important international sea lanes.

The two prime ministers stressed that disputes should be resolved through peaceful means in line with international law.





Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim, center right, and his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc, center left, review an honor guard in Hanoi, Vietnam Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2017. Yildirim is on a two-day visit to the Southeast Asian country to boost trade and defense ties between the two countries. (AP Photo/Tran Van Minh)






Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim, center right, talks to his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Xuan Phuc, center left, as they walk to a meeting in Hanoi, Vietnam Wednesday, Aug. 23, 2017. Yildirim is on a two-day visit to the Southeast Asian country to boost trade and defense ties between the two countries. (AP Photo/Tran Van Minh)

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## Viet

Repair & Maintenance of C295M transport aircraft















The communist chief Nguyen Phu Trong to a historic visit to Jakarta with many suggesting Vietnam strategic shift

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## Viet

Sea trails complete, the third Gepard (with the ship painting refreshed?) will be delivered to Vietnam in September and the the fourth in November. According to Renat Mistahov, the representative of Zelenodolsk. Russia shipyard makes surface warships in snail speed, hopefully the next two warships come faster with Kalibr cruise missiles as main weaponry.

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## Viet

In response to Ebola outbreak in Africa, Vietnam establishes a series of emergency operations center throughout the country. Thanks in part to the US providing financial and technical recources.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> Repair & Maintenance of C295M transport aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> The communist chief Nguyen Phu Trong to a historic visit to Jakarta with many suggesting Vietnam strategic shift
> 
> 
> View attachment 420574



Look at the tall guy on the right line, the name is Luhut. One of Chief Minister in Economic and Strategic cooperation






One of the most important figure in Jokowi cabinet, Luhut Binsar Panjaitan is an ex elite Army guy (receiver of SAS training course badge, along with GSG9 anti terror badge, been completed various training and military course at Fort Bragg and Fort Benning) and been on duty in Timor Leste as commander of Special Forces unit ( Commander of The Hunter Killer Company Team of The Elite Special Forces Task Force Unit In Operation "Seroja" (Lotus) (1976)). his leadership is crucial on Battle of Dili during operation Lotus. He is part of anti China (PRC) circle in Jokowi administration and very against the nine dash claim of PRC. 





Young Luhut in the center during operation Lotus in East Timor.

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Look at the tall guy on the right line, the name is Luhut. One of Chief Minister in Economic and Strategic cooperation
> 
> View attachment 420614
> 
> 
> One of the most important figure in Jokowi cabinet, Luhut Binsar Panjaitan is an ex elite Army guy (receiver of SAS training course badge, along with GSG9 anti terror badge, been completed various training and military course at Fort Bragg and Fort Benning) and been on duty in Timor Leste as commander of Special Forces unit ( Commander of The Hunter Killer Company Team of The Elite Special Forces Task Force Unit In Operation "Seroja" (Lotus) (1976)). his leadership is crucial on Battle of Dili during operation Lotus. He is part of anti China (PRC) circle in Jokowi administration and very against the nine dash claim of PRC.
> 
> View attachment 420616
> 
> Young Luhut in the center during operation Lotus in East Timor.


Tough guy!

sis Mado, you shall appeal to indonesia government to team up with Vietnam to do more in maintaining peace and prosperity in the region. What is the purpose of all your arms purchases? Waste of money if you don't use them unleashing on the enemy. Good I understood, you don't want to anger the Chinese too much, relying on their friendship and money. As usual I expect we will have to stand on our feet alone. The Chinese clowns claim everything as theirs, threatening everyone who dares to speak up or drills in the international recognized waters. 

I'm pretty sure the day when we have a squadron of nuclear submarines armed with SLBM to ensure a mutually assured destruction will be marked as the start of a hundred year long peace period in the region.


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## TenLua

madokafc said:


> Look at the tall guy on the right line, the name is Luhut. One of Chief Minister in Economic and Strategic cooperation
> 
> View attachment 420614
> 
> 
> One of the most important figure in Jokowi cabinet, Luhut Binsar Panjaitan is an ex elite Army guy (receiver of SAS training course badge, along with GSG9 anti terror badge, been completed various training and military course at Fort Bragg and Fort Benning) and been on duty in Timor Leste as commander of Special Forces unit ( Commander of The Hunter Killer Company Team of The Elite Special Forces Task Force Unit In Operation "Seroja" (Lotus) (1976)). his leadership is crucial on Battle of Dili during operation Lotus. He is part of anti China (PRC) circle in Jokowi administration and very against the nine dash claim of PRC.
> 
> View attachment 420616
> 
> Young Luhut in the center during operation Lotus in East Timor.



Luhut Binsar Panjaitan is a punk *** bitch.


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## devillianangel

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=339670289790293

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## Viet

Nice profile pic comrade devil

a Indonesia firm will construct $1 billion coal port in southern part of Vietnam. ID exports 4.5m tons of coal to Vietnam this year. Right move by tapping VN rising economic power. VN could import as much as 43 million tons coal per year. For the climate that is not necessary a good news. Maybe highnoon in rethinking the strategy the Russians and Japanese should offer cheap nuclear power plants.

http://www.seatrade-maritime.com/news/asia/indonesian-firm-to-pump-in-1bn-to-vietnam-coal-port.html


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## IblinI

devillianangel said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=339670289790293


What is wrong with the shoe?


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## ChineseToTheBone

YuChen said:


> What is wrong with the shoe?


Nothing really. Ultimately that particular instance where her loss of contact with the ground was not caught by any of the judges would not result in penalties.


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## xiao qi

YuChen said:


> What is wrong with the shoe?


She runs to get medal in " walking" competition


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## ChineseToTheBone

xiao qi said:


> She runs to get medal in " walking" competition


That happens more frequently than one might expect.

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## Viet

Test firing a new 25mm ship gun 2M3

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## TenLua

ChineseToTheBone said:


> That happens more frequently than one might expect.



So....that makes it ok?


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## ChineseToTheBone

TenLua said:


> So....that makes it ok?


Absolutely, since a major part of race walking is to not get caught by the judges when they are not looking. Regardless of what most people think, a slight loss of contact with the ground is no big deal.


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## Viet

Rising from the ashes: once complete the building landmark 81 will become the highest in SE Asia. 462m.

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## Viet

Hanoi. New headquarters of the Coast Guard

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Beach assault by Marines
> 
> View attachment 420303
> View attachment 420302
> View attachment 420304
> View attachment 420305
> View attachment 420306
> View attachment 420307
> View attachment 420308
> View attachment 420309
> View attachment 420310
> View attachment 420311



Are such beach assault exercises conducted on spratly and other islands...or just Viet mainland?


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## Amember

madokafc said:


> He is part of anti China (PRC) circle in Jokowi administration and very against the nine dash claim of PRC.



If it's true, then he must be a very hypocrite man. 
anti-china but *** kissing china for money, typical indonesians.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/06/16/luhut-offers-investment-opportunities-to-china.html


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## Nike

Amember said:


> If it's true, then he must be a very hypocrite man.
> anti-china but *** kissing china for money, typical indonesians.
> 
> http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/06/16/luhut-offers-investment-opportunities-to-china.html



Well money is money LoL, but money cant buy sovereignty and trust especially when you are talking about China ridiculous claim of nine dash line

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## Brainsucker

Amember said:


> If it's true, then he must be a very hypocrite man.
> anti-china but *** kissing china for money, typical indonesians.
> 
> http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/06/16/luhut-offers-investment-opportunities-to-china.html



Well, he's not anti-China. He just love his country and has the responsibility to protect the territorial integrity of our country. But it's not only to China.



madokafc said:


> Well money is money LoL, but money cant buy sovereignty and trust especially when you are talking about China ridiculous claim of nine dash line



So what about the recent clash with Vietnam in Natuna Sea that made our officials captured by their Coast Guard? They are better than China?


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## xiao qi

Brainsucker said:


> Well, he's not anti-China. He just love his country and has the responsibility to protect the territorial integrity of our country. But it's not only to China.
> 
> 
> 
> So what about the recent clash with Vietnam in Natuna Sea that made our officials captured by their Coast Guard? They are better than China?


Vietnam maybe is not better than China, but they have not the ability to become Indonesia's threat, Do you understand?


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## terranMarine

xiao qi said:


> Vietnam maybe is not better than China, but *they* have not the ability to become Indonesia's threat, Do you understand?



Exactly, China is not a threat to Indon but Vietnam will be.


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Are such beach assault exercises conducted on spratly and other islands...or just Viet mainland?


No info so location is undisclosed.

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## Viet

Next stop Myanmar for the communist chief. It's all about business. VN wants to secure energy imports e.i. coal from Indonesia gas from Myanmar.


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## warzone

terranMarine said:


> Exactly, China is not a threat to Indon but Vietnam will be.


You are like PLA, a big mouth....Talk is cheap and China is number uno in the world for empty threat.... China threat Taiwan of invasion for the last 60 years, China threat India for decades, China threat everyone come close to Tibet, China threat Japan about Senkaku, China threat USA about SCS, China threat VN everyday... Please wake me up when PLA will do any military operation and not fail....Can you remind where I can find a book about HOW TO WIN A WAR WITH PLA military STRATEGY"... i cant find any book during my military time.... The only weapon China have today is economy pressure, PLA is a joke (because nobody respect PLA.. ) Vietnam look Indonesia as his equal, China look above on everyone.... China today is just like the Japanese imperial army before WW2 (the Chinese despised them so much) but today they act just like the JIA .

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## Viet

warzone said:


> You are like PLA, a big mouth....Talk is cheap and China is number uno in the world for empty threat.... China threat Taiwan of invasion for the last 60 years, China threat India for decades, China threat everyone come close to Tibet, China threat Japan about Senkaku, China threat USA about SCS, China threat VN everyday... Please wake me up when PLA will do any military operation and not fail....Can you remind where I can find a book about HOW TO WIN A WAR WITH PLA military STRATEGY"... i cant find any book during my military time.... The only weapon China have today is economy pressure, PLA is a joke (because nobody respect PLA.. ) Vietnam look Indonesia as his equal, China look above on everyone.... China today is just like the Japanese imperial army before WW2 (the Chinese despised them so much) but today they act just like the JIA .


there is no difference between Japan in the past and China of today. both show an incredible similarity: arrogance and aggression. that is the reason why we always need to maintain a sharp sword to chop their heads off.

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## terranMarine

warzone said:


> You are like PLA, a big mouth....Talk is cheap and China is number uno in the world for empty threat.... China threat Taiwan of invasion for the last 60 years, China threat India for decades, China threat everyone come close to Tibet, China threat Japan about Senkaku, China threat USA about SCS, China threat VN everyday... Please wake me up when PLA will do any military operation and not fail....Can you remind where I can find a book about HOW TO WIN A WAR WITH PLA military STRATEGY"... i cant find any book during my military time.... The only weapon China have today is economy pressure, PLA is a joke (because nobody respect PLA.. ) Vietnam look Indonesia as his equal, China look above on everyone.... China today is just like the Japanese imperial army before WW2 (the Chinese despised them so much) but today they act just like the JIA .



PLA is a joke then why your supa stronk Vietcong army is acting like a chicken? When we threaten with war you cowards told the Spanish to stop drilling

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## TenLua

terranMarine said:


> PLA is a joke then why your supa stronk Vietcong army is acting like a chicken? When we threaten with war you cowards told the Spanish to stop drilling



Because they value life. They have fought enough wars to know it is a last resort unlike punk little children who go around threatening people with war. Grow up a little maybe?

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## terranMarine

Aqsuperman said:


> Hoh hoh hod and where do you know it from, "very reliable source" that either a tabloid or Western papers that you guy cursed for years? Here, have a look at this "super reliable source" about the state of the PLA lol
> 
> And for the record, to put a nice reply for your statement that Vietnam will be a threat to Indonesia: In this region, every countries is a threat to each of their own. The SEA region is not really that much of a peaceful place
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/43065...-going-blind-from-fiddling-with-their-phones/
> 
> *YOUNG Chinese people are too fat and masturbate too much to be accepted into the army, according to state media.*
> 
> In one city, 56 per cent of people who apply for the armed forces in China were rejected because of their poor diet and lifestyle, according to the People's Liberation Army Daily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alamy
> 4
> Young Chinese people wanting to join the military are being rejected because they are too fat and masturbate too much, according to the government (file photo)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The People's Liberation Army also blamed electronic gadgets for damaging young people's eyesight (file photo)
> In some areas, one in five applicants were deemed to fat for a life in the military as army chiefs blame technology for the poor health of youngsters.
> 
> According to a report, the standard of health "is related to sitting too long on computer games, excessive masturbation and too little physical activity".
> 
> Chinese authorities believe that poor diet is a big part of the problem but also that frequent masturbation by young men leads to larger-than-normal testicular veins, and a resultant fall in fitness.
> 
> It also claimed 46 per cent of young people were failing the eyesight test during the application process.



If you are saying Vietnam didn't tell the Spanish to stop drilling, do provide us with a reliable source.

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## terranMarine

TenLua said:


> Where is your source that says Vietnam told Spain to stop drilling because Vietnam says," We are afraid of china." Stop masturbating and put up a link.


 oh right VN is not afraid of China but simply told the Spanish to stop because they received war declaration from us. If that is not afraid then i don't know what is, maybe you like to explain why you cowards told the Spanish to stop huh Einstein


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## Aqsuperman

terranMarine said:


> If you are saying Vietnam didn't tell the Spanish to stop drilling, do provide us with a reliable source.



Reliable source? The drilling is indeed stop but the official version is because of difficulties operating in the typhoon season. That is my "super reliable" Vietnamese source.



terranMarine said:


> oh right VN is not afraid of China but simply told the Spanish to stop because they received war declaration from us. If that is not afraid then i don't know what is, maybe you like to explain why you cowards told the Spanish to stop huh Einstein



Lol of all the possible reason you can name of, you go with the one that can fit your Chinese superior thinking eh? And you have a "super reliable" source for that? Or you just go with "Hey , its must be this since you don't have anything say otherwise". Your country law enforcement force must be fun operating with that principle. War declaration? Hoh we all know about the credible of China war threats, that is even if there is any send to Vietnam. They are just as as real as the possibility that China can make thing with the same quality as Japan. Or the prospect that Vietnam can win a gold medal in SEAGAME male soccer. 

Have fun masturbating out loud in this section with that idea. We Vietnamese LOVE to see Chinese wet dream and how they try to escape their humiliation imposed on them in the last century by Japan and UK. Give me a holler if you have trouble finding a good P - O - R - N website, ok

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## devillianangel



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## Viva_Viet

terranMarine said:


> oh right VN is not afraid of China but simply told the Spanish to stop because they received war declaration from us. If that is not afraid then i don't know what is, maybe you like to explain why you cowards told the Spanish to stop huh Einstein


We told u many times that will start a war wt CN when we finished sub Mekong unification plan to get bigger and stronger than ever. Try to threaten war to our sub Mekong plan if your useless PLA have the guts ??



> *Joint statement on Việt Nam-Myanmar comprehensive cooperative partnership*
> *August, 26/2017 - 21:50*
> ...................................
> This would strengthen the five co-operation pillars of bilateral ties: *political relations; defence and security co-operation;* economic co-operation; cultural and social co-operation, people-to-people exchange, and other fields of shared concern; and regional and international co-operation.
> 
> 
> Read more at http://vietnamnews.vn/politics-laws...perative-partnership.html#Ibf5ry2B0M7HFdxj.99

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## xiao qi

devillianangel said:


> View attachment 421391


no matter, at least they know how is their flag, it is enough, I think You should not blame Malaysian for some problems, see that.


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## Viet

I like it and I think Chinese tourists will love it too. As tourist attraction. The German university of Lausitz proposes swimming smart houses for Vietnam growing population at rivers and seas. Green, clean, modern and affordable. The first houses can be floated in the Gulf of Tonkin, Mekong delta and along of 3,000 km coast line. Later such smart floating houses can be built in the Spratlys and beyond. We can save some money instead pouring billions of USD to create sand islands.

The Germans are ready to provide technology and expertise. Vietnam only needs to agree and puts money on the table.







http://www.lr-online.de/nachrichten...-auf-Schwimmtour-in-Vietnam;art307853,6164176

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> no matter, at least they know how is their flag, it is enough, I think You should not blame Malaysian for some problems, see that.


Gold fish Anh Vien with 7 golds.

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## Viet

US president Donald Trump makes headlines by reducing foreign aid or demanding Mexico to pay for border wall (which is refused by Mexico of course) but dishes out more than $10 million startup package to assist Vietnam in UN peacekeeping operations.

Thank you Mr President!

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## Carlosa

*Foreign investment on rise in Vietnam*
Monday, August 28, 2017 - 9:52:00 




Workers operating weaving equipment at the TNG Investment and Trading Jsc. manufacturing plant in Thai Nguyen province (Photo: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* - The foreign investment is looking up, as the total capital pledged for investment in the country until August 20 was nearly equal to that for the entire 2016.

The reports from the Foreign Investment Agency (FIA) showed that *foreign investors had registered to invest 23.36 billion USD into Vietnam since the beginning of this year until August 20 period, up 45.1 percent year-on-year.*

Last year, Vietnam reported a total registered capital of 24.3 billion USD from foreign investors, up 7.1 percent against the previous year.

From the amount pledged this year, 13.45 billion USD came from 1,624 new licensed projects, a 37.4 percent rise; and 6.4 billion USD was the additional capital for 773 existing projects, up 40.2 percent. The remaining was from the capital contribution and share purchase of foreign investors.

According to the agency, the disbursement of the capital in the first eight months of this year by foreign investors was also positive, with a growth rate of 5.1 percent year-on-year to 10.3 billion USD.

In the period between January and August, foreign investors poured the capital into 18 industries, of which the manufacturing and processing industry was the most attractive destination with a total capital of 11.69 billion USD, equal to some 50 percent of the country’s total registered capital. However, the ratio was still lower than that in the previous years, when the industry often attracted some 70 percent of the country’s total registered capital.

This was followed by the power production and trading industry with 5.36 billion USD, accounting for 22.9 percent of the country’s total registered capital.

The mining industry was ranked the third, as its registered capital rose 5.5 percent to 1.28 billion USD.

The first eight months of the year saw 98 countries and territories wanting to invest in Vietnam, of which the Republic of Korea topped the list with a registered capital of more than 6 billion USD, accounting for 25.7 percent of the country’s total registered capital. Japan and Singapore followed with 5.74 billion USD and 3.92 billion USD, making up 24.58 percent and 16.8 percent of the total capital, respectively.

The business performance of the foreign firms was also optimistic during the period. Their exports, including crude oil, rose 15.5 percent to 95.66 billion USD, accounting for 71.6 percent of the country’s total export revenue during the period.

With an import value of 81.38 billion USD, foreign firms gained a trade surplus of 14.28 billion USD during the period.-VNA

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *Foreign investment on rise in Vietnam*
> Monday, August 28, 2017 - 9:52:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Workers operating weaving equipment at the TNG Investment and Trading Jsc. manufacturing plant in Thai Nguyen province (Photo: VNA)
> 
> *Hanoi (VNA)* - The foreign investment is looking up, as the total capital pledged for investment in the country until August 20 was nearly equal to that for the entire 2016.
> 
> The reports from the Foreign Investment Agency (FIA) showed that *foreign investors had registered to invest 23.36 billion USD into Vietnam since the beginning of this year until August 20 period, up 45.1 percent year-on-year.*
> 
> Last year, Vietnam reported a total registered capital of 24.3 billion USD from foreign investors, up 7.1 percent against the previous year.
> 
> From the amount pledged this year, 13.45 billion USD came from 1,624 new licensed projects, a 37.4 percent rise; and 6.4 billion USD was the additional capital for 773 existing projects, up 40.2 percent. The remaining was from the capital contribution and share purchase of foreign investors.
> 
> According to the agency, the disbursement of the capital in the first eight months of this year by foreign investors was also positive, with a growth rate of 5.1 percent year-on-year to 10.3 billion USD.
> 
> In the period between January and August, foreign investors poured the capital into 18 industries, of which the manufacturing and processing industry was the most attractive destination with a total capital of 11.69 billion USD, equal to some 50 percent of the country’s total registered capital. However, the ratio was still lower than that in the previous years, when the industry often attracted some 70 percent of the country’s total registered capital.
> 
> This was followed by the power production and trading industry with 5.36 billion USD, accounting for 22.9 percent of the country’s total registered capital.
> 
> The mining industry was ranked the third, as its registered capital rose 5.5 percent to 1.28 billion USD.
> 
> The first eight months of the year saw 98 countries and territories wanting to invest in Vietnam, of which the Republic of Korea topped the list with a registered capital of more than 6 billion USD, accounting for 25.7 percent of the country’s total registered capital. Japan and Singapore followed with 5.74 billion USD and 3.92 billion USD, making up 24.58 percent and 16.8 percent of the total capital, respectively.
> 
> The business performance of the foreign firms was also optimistic during the period. Their exports, including crude oil, rose 15.5 percent to 95.66 billion USD, accounting for 71.6 percent of the country’s total export revenue during the period.
> 
> With an import value of 81.38 billion USD, foreign firms gained a trade surplus of 14.28 billion USD during the period.-VNA


Should the trend continue Vietnam will reach the status of high income in a decade

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> For a country that has the longest history of being colonized i wouldn't start talking about humiliation if i were you. The *1006 years* under China's rule, Viet's enslavement under the French rule, the Japs conquered VN, the Yankees wreaked havoc for 20 years on your jungle as they carpet bombed, napalmed and sprayed your people with Agent Orange as if you were BBQ meat and mere insects. No country has suffered this kind of humiliation other than VIETS. As if that were not enough you had to force China to send your people to become fish food in SCS. If you guys still haven't had enough don't worry i'm sure in the future we will send more joining those somewhere deep in SCS. See ya in the battlefield


Every country has its ups and downs. At the end of the day everyone should move on. America and Japan were Vietnam's enemies for sure but we can move on, why can't you? Why you continue sticking to the times nobody can remember and continue with hostility? Have you ever considered to seek medical help? You should pay a visit to the nearest hospital!

Ah lets post some pictures for this thread otherwise people get bored by too many bullshit talks. The airforce increases the frequency of exercises. Vietnamese pilots must learn to keep up with potential threats. Air battle has changed much since Vietnam war.

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## Viet

*Collection provides ‘objective’ insight into Vietnam's conflicts with US, China*
By Hoang Phuong 
August 20, 2017 | 11:40 am GMT+7





Vietnamese soldiers in their position during the border war with China in 1979. Photo by Tran Manh Thuong


*Why the US-backed government is no longer a ‘puppet regime’ and details of the seldom-mentioned Chinese invasion in 1979.*


A new series of history books released on Friday has sparked public interest in Vietnam by addressing the “gaps” left by previous publications.

"Lich Su Viet Nam” or Vietnam History Chronicle, compiled by Vietnam’s Institute of History, tells the story of the country since its establishment until the year 2000.

Tran Duc Cuong, a history professor and chief editor of the 15-book collection, said more than 30 historians spent nine years to chronicle nearly 10,000 pages of history.

“This is the biggest history collection ever published in Vietnam,” Cuong said.

“It approaches historical figures from multiple perspectives and includes new content, like the border war with China,” he said.

*No ‘puppet’*

Cuong said the new collection also takes a more “neutral” stand in refering to the U.S.-backed South Vietnam regime.

He said the entity which existed for nearly 21 years until the end of the Vietnam War had been referred to as a “puppet regime” for years.

His books refer to it as the “Saigon Government,” after the official name of the southern capital during the war.

“History needs to be objective and written in a way that can be accepted by everyone,” he said.

The “puppet” nickname is usually used by those with strong links to the North Vietnam Government during the war, and has somehow maintained a divide decades after the country was officially united in April 1975.

*'Invasive war'*

One book in the collection devotes nine pages to explaining Vietnam’s relationship with China after 1975, including the tensions that caused the border war to break out in February 1979. It refers to the conflict as an “invasive war.”

“What else could it be?” he said.

He said the book goes into the details of the war and the scale of the troops and arms China deployed in Vietnam.

“At 5 a.m. on February 17, 1979, *600,000 Chinese soldiers* crossed the border along 1,400 kilometers and entered six Vietnamese provinces Quang Ninh, Lang Son, Cao Bang, Ha Tuyen (which is now Ha Giang and Tuyen Quang), Hoang Lien Son (which is now Lao Cai and Yen Bai), and Lai Chau… They brought 2,559 canons, 500 tanks and armored vehicles between 10-15 kilometers into Lang Son and Lai Chau, and 40-50 kilometers into Cao Bang.”

Vietnam History, A 15-book chronicle published in August 2017


The one-month war claimed thousands of lives on both sides and left nearly two million Vietnamese people homeless. The situation remained tense over the next decade, particularly at the Vi Xuyen Front in Ha Giang Province. 

Between April 1984 and May 1989, China sent more than *500,000 soldiers *to the Vietnamese border district, killing thousands of Vietnamese soldiers.

The battle only began receiving renewed media attention following the escalation of tensions in the East Sea, known internationally as the South China Sea, in recent years.

It is barely mentioned in Vietnamese textbooks.

The 12th-grade history book mentions the tensions briefly in 11 lines, which its authors said is due to “sensitive relations” with China.

Cuong said the collection also “honestly” credits the contributions of feudal rulers who have been widely perceived as villains in Vietnamese history, only because they ousted heroic reigns.

Vietnam was invaded by China multiple times during feudal times, and those who overthrew the Chinese have always been hailed as heroes, while those who took over from these rulers have been painted in a bad light.

Cuong said it’s just a part of history that dynasties come and go. He said even the "villains", like the pro-France Nguyen family, the last feudal rulers in the country, had made big contributions to culture, education and sovereignty.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> *Collection provides ‘objective’ insight into Vietnam's conflicts with US, China*
> By Hoang Phuong
> August 20, 2017 | 11:40 am GMT+7
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 421591
> 
> Vietnamese soldiers in their position during the border war with China in 1979. Photo by Tran Manh Thuong
> 
> 
> *Why the US-backed government is no longer a ‘puppet regime’ and details of the seldom-mentioned Chinese invasion in 1979.*
> 
> 
> A new series of history books released on Friday has sparked public interest in Vietnam by addressing the “gaps” left by previous publications.
> 
> "Lich Su Viet Nam” or Vietnam History Chronicle, compiled by Vietnam’s Institute of History, tells the story of the country since its establishment until the year 2000.
> 
> Tran Duc Cuong, a history professor and chief editor of the 15-book collection, said more than 30 historians spent nine years to chronicle nearly 10,000 pages of history.
> 
> “This is the biggest history collection ever published in Vietnam,” Cuong said.
> 
> “It approaches historical figures from multiple perspectives and includes new content, like the border war with China,” he said.
> 
> *No ‘puppet’*
> 
> .


South VN is just like South Korea-JP-German etc, without daddy US, they will not have a single chance to survive. Just like SK would be vanished in Korean war if daddy US didnt come to help.

Puppet or whatever nickname pple wanna call, it just cant change the truth that those nations will not survive without daddy US's protection.


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## Nike

Viva_Viet said:


> South VN is just like South Korea-JP-German etc, without daddy US, they will not have a single chance to survive. Just like SK would be vanished in Korean war if daddy US didnt come to help.
> 
> Puppet or whatever nickname pple wanna call, it just cant change the truth that those nations will not survive without daddy US's protection.



Japan and Germany is special case, both is very strong Nation with proud history and culture before being succumbed by the US and Soviet Union. Else they left unchecked by the US during WW II your ilk will speak Japs and using Japanese namae like what Korean suffer before being liberated by the US and Soviet Union.


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> South VN is just like South Korea-JP-German etc, without daddy US, they will not have a single chance to survive. Just like SK would be vanished in Korean war if daddy US didnt come to help.
> 
> Puppet or whatever nickname pple wanna call, it just cant change the truth that those nations will not survive without daddy US's protection.


I wouldn't say Japan, Germany and S Korea as weak and puppets. The US is a military superpower but without allies the US is nothing! How can the US army project superior military power if surrounded by enemies? The allies and military bases on over the planet makes America to a superpower. Feared and respected by friends and enemies.

That's something the Chinese will never understand nor learn. Even one day the PLA has more warships and fighter aircraft than America, without allies and military bases the PLA is nothing! People continue to consider Chinese army as a little rich hooligan, as a big boy with big gun. Nothing more.

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## Viva_Viet

madokafc said:


> Japan and Germany is special case, both is very strong Nation with proud history and culture before being succumbed by the US and Soviet Union. Else they left unchecked by the US during WW II your ilk will speak Japs and using Japanese namae like what Korean suffer before being liberated by the US and Soviet Union.


German and JP would be annexed by Soviet in WW2 if US didnt defeated them earlier and protect them after that. To u maybe German and JP is special case, to us, they are just US's puppets.



Viet said:


> I wouldn't say Japan, Germany and S Korea as weak and puppets. The US is a military superpower but without allies the US is nothing! How can the US army project superior military power if surrounded by enemies? The allies and military bases on over the planet makes America to a superpower. Feared and respected by friends and enemies.
> 
> That's something the Chinese will never understand nor learn. Even one day the PLA has more warships and fighter aircraft than America, without allies and military bases the PLA is nothing! People continue to consider Chinese army as a little rich hooligan, as a big boy with big gun. Nothing more.


'Japan, Germany *are occupied* by US, not US's allies, they r nothing but US's dogs . "US say jump they say how high" ;and S Korea is just liek a zombie after Korean war


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> German and JP would be annexed by Soviet in WW2 if US didnt defeated them earlier and protect them after that. To u maybe German and JP is special case, to us, they are just US's puppets.
> 
> 
> 'Japan, Germany *are occupied* by US, not US's allies, they r nothing but US's dogs . "US say jump they say how high" ;and S Korea is just liek a zombie after Korean war


Maybe true they are puppets and slaves but they are happy being parts of US global military power. Yes the US has the ability to make former enemies to allies, while the Chinese make enemy after enemy, once enemy forever enemy.

Who is smarter?

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Maybe true they are puppets and slaves but they are happy being parts of US global military power. Yes the US has the ability to make former enemies to allies, while the Chinese make enemy after enemy, once enemy forever enemy.
> 
> Who is smarter?


The matter is that when US collude wt Soviet to split German again into West-East German and force them to fight against each other, so US-Russia can sell more weapons, then I think those "slaves" will cry all day and night again.

U cant beg for mercy from bad boss US forever.


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> The matter is that when US collude wt Soviet to split German again into West-East German and force them to fight against each other, so US-Russia can sell more weapons, then I think those "slaves" will cry all day and night again.
> 
> U cant beg for mercy from bad boss US forever.


Actually Germany was cut into 4 pieces occupied by the 4 victors. But that's a thing of the past, today Germany is part of US led global military alliance, with the Germans happy being part of global imperialism. If the US decides to bomb China, the Germans will be the first to bomb Chinese cities.

And most people probably don't know, not very far from where I am, Germany hosts the biggest US transport military airbase on the planet with bunkers hosting US nuclear bombs. In a nuclear war scenario German Tornado bombers will carry the bombs to the target.

I think sooner or later Vietnam has to decide going nuclear or not.

The people of VN are tired by Chinese aggression.


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## AViet

madokafc said:


> Japan and Germany is special case, both is very strong Nation with proud history and culture before being succumbed by the US and Soviet Union. Else they left unchecked by the US during WW II your ilk will speak Japs and using Japanese namae like what Korean suffer before being liberated by the US and Soviet Union.



I do not think so. Germany and Japan are not that special. They made the right decision just on the right time, and hence they developed, unlike the Vietnamese emperors in 19th century.

Look how mighty the Mongolian empire was, or the British empire. At their heyday, every one thought these people were special and unbeatable. But they are just very average.

If Vietnam can maintain our politic and governing system, and Japan continue to apply their stupid western-style democracy, within 50 - 100 years, not only China and Korea but Vietnam will beat them.

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## TenLua

AViet said:


> I do not think so. Germany and Japan are not that special. They made the right decision just on the right time, and hence they developed, unlike the Vietnamese emperors in 19th century.
> 
> Look how mighty the Mongolian empire was, or the British empire. At their heyday, every one thought these people were special and unbeatable. But they are just very average.
> 
> If Vietnam can maintain our politic and governing system, and Japan continue to apply their stupid western-style democracy, within 50 - 100 years, not only China and Korea but Vietnam will beat them.



I'm sorry but Vietnam has terrible, absolutely terrible governing system. It is too invasive and unstable. People arent motivated to be innovative; whats the point when the govt can just come in and take everything?

The politicians are out for themselves. It is understandable to be selfish to a point as a politician, that is a given, but Vietnam in particular have politicians that are 100% corruptible. When you have a unstable system with short sighted sociopath running it, it is extremely hard to climb the ladder. Africa suffers from the same cancer. Crabs in a bucket.

The US govt is diagnosed with this same cancer, although in its early stages.


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## Viet

Ok news of the day

French military company MBDA is ready to transfer the technology to Vietnam in making Exocet block 3 antiship missile and VLMica anti aircraft missile, says Daniel Petit, the General Director of MBDA on the first ever Homeland security expo in Hanoi. He adds "everything is possible! Depending on what Vietnam needs."

Good, I think besides lethal missiles we need destroyers. The French should transfer the technology too.

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## Viet

A sign of incoming Vietnam/Australia military alliance

Australia's defense minister Marise Payne on a visit to Vietnam with a remarkable announcement: a fleet of Australia's transport aircraft C17 will provide air transport for the first ever deployment of Vietnamese civil personnel as part of UN peacekeeping troop to South Sudan including combat unit of the armed forces e.i. sharpshooters. The armed unit will provide protection to UN camps.

Good stuff: these special combat units were established during Vietnam war with their members operating behind enemy lines. They are said killing enemy soldiers without blinking an eye.










http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n/news-story/8389a8048bb0c37131fcf6b3e738fcd2

a big bird: c17

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## Viet

Test firing domestic made ammunition for 40mm ship gun

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## DarkMoon198

terranMarine said:


> Even though it was not continuous it is over 1000 years period. Only the 4th domination was short, that's when the French took over.


My point is that it is not continuous over 1000 years and it is the add up to approx 1000 year period till 938 AD. While if you see history of Egypt for example

Egypt was ruled by Macedonia from 332 BC to 30 BC, ruled by the Roman Empire from 30 BC to 641 AD, then ruled by the Caliphate and Islamic countries until 1517, then ruled by the Ottoman Empire until 1867... in total, Egypt was ruled by other countries in 2300 years, it's not until 1956 that it's became fully independent and ruled by the Egyptians


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> why use a drawing of Egyptian slavery? Why not use some drawings of Viets slaves if you guys really were comparable to what took place in Egypt.


Not what you think of. Imposing high taxes aka sucking blood out of VN is a form of practicing slavery. As for Egypt we will have the chance to ask the strongman of Egypt, General El-Sisi if his country still constantly talks of the times when the Israeli were enslaved. He will visit Hanoi in the first week of September.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If you listen to Trump you're a moron & if you actually believe in Trump you need to be admitted to a mental hospital.
> 
> A "trade war" with China will devastate the global supply chain. Many US factories relies on Chinese made parts to manufacture their goods. Even Trump's hats are made in China.
> 
> Trust me he won't declare a "trade war" anytime soon.


Not a big deal. US consumers can buy goods from VN factories. Whatever the cost the Chinese produce we can produce everything cheaper. Win win. Korean companies pack their stuffs in garment and electronic sectors and leave the Philippines for Vietnam. logistics cost and other cost in production in the Philippines are three times higher. Soon we not only produce shoes for half of world population but offer underwear for the entire planet.

Darkness over the Manila. Nevertheless the Philippines should not worry too much, their Chinese friends will come to rescue with billions of USD assistance package. Also the Chinese can relocate their factories to the Philippines.






http://m.philstar.com/315469/show/d2b3d738c9261bde23bfa183b4db219d/?

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If you listen to Trump you're a moron & if you actually believe in Trump you need to be admitted to a mental hospital.
> 
> A "trade war" with China will devastate the global supply chain. Many US factories relies on Chinese made parts to manufacture their goods. Even Trump's hats are made in China.
> 
> Trust me he won't declare a "trade war" anytime soon.



I don't need to believe anything, I only need to read the news and it seems that you didn't read that USA already started the process under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974, the ball got going already.



terranMarine said:


> MAY? Should do it right now, you should contribute to China's crash and put the money where your mouth is. UNLESS you have complete faith in China's economy



Oh sure, I need your guidance to run my business.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> I don't need to believe anything, I only need to read the news and it seems that you didn't read that USA already started the process under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974, the ball got going already.


According to the news Trump is being investigated for possible collusion & conflict of interest which are ground for impeachment if he is found guilty. 

The ball has yet to stop.

If it's not yet passed then it's not a law yet.


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> According to the news Trump is being investigated for possible collusion & conflict of interest which are ground for impeachment if he is found guilty.
> 
> The ball has yet to stop.
> 
> If it's not yet passed then it's not a law yet.



That has nothing to do with the trade investigation and why do you think the chinese government reacted so strongly to the Section 301 investigation? The process will start a de facto trade war in about 3 months.

Your political wishes about Trump are only a possibility and its a long process anyway, the trade fireworks will start in only 3 months.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> A "trade war" with China will devastate the global supply chain. Many US factories relies on Chinese made parts to manufacture their goods. Even Trump's hats are made in China.



Trump and his support base don't give a sh@@it about that, in fact, that's what they want, they want to cut off the supply chain dependence on China. Industry adapts and relocates, simple as that. China is not the only option.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> That has nothing to do with the trade investigation and why do you think the chinese government reacted so strongly to the Section 301 investigation? The process will start a de facto trade war in about 3 months.
> 
> Your political wishes about Trump are only a possibility and its a long process anyway, the trade fireworks will start in only 3 months.


You mean like your prediction that India will have her new aircraft carrier ready before china? Try not to believe anything you see on paper. You're gullible enough as it is.

You do realize that tariff goes both ways right? If the US impose tariffs on chinese goods & services the chinese can do likewise. Making the "trade war" a meaningless endeavour. 

You might not know this but the chinese market are the most profitable of the asia markets. What do you think will happen to the US economy if they lost a portion of that market.

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You mean like your prediction that India will have her new aircraft carrier ready before china? Try not to believe anything you see on paper. You're gullible enough as it is.
> 
> You do realize that tariff goes both ways right? If the US impose tariffs on chinese goods & services the chinese can do likewise. Making the "trade war" a meaningless endeavour.
> 
> You might not know this but the chinese market are the most profitable of the asia markets. What do you think will happen to the US economy if they lost a portion of that market.



And when tariffs get impose who is the one that loses the most? The one that has the trade advantage and that's China with a 4 to 1 trade balance with USA. The trade balance numbers already tell you very clearly whose market is bigger and the big loser will be China. As usual, your analysis only looks at what China can do, not what they would lose. You talk same as the chinese trolls.

You talk same as the chinese talk with India, "we will teach you a lesson", "We'll start military operations in 2 weeks, we will not talk, we will not compromise" and after all the barking......... ooops, time to back down. Same story in trade, China always threatens but if the fireworks start, China is the first one to back down because they know how much they will lose.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> And when tariffs get impose who is the one that loses the most? The one that has the trade advantage and that's China with a 4 to 1 trade balance with USA. The trade balance numbers already tell you very clearly whose market is bigger and the big loser will be China. As usual, your analysis only looks at what China can do, not what they would lose. You talk same as the chinese trolls.
> 
> You talk same as the chinese talk with India, "we will teach you a lesson", "We'll start military operations in 2 weeks, we will not talk, we will not compromise" and after all the barking......... ooops, time to back down. Same story in trade, China always threatens but if the fireworks start, China is the first one to back down because they know how much they will lose.



LOL the tariff are only on 1 commodity. Which is Steel that even the Chinese are more than willing to cut production to satisfy Trump's 

The "trade war" are just propaganda for his dimwitted voters. 

http://www.businessinsider.sg/trump...based-on-a-misunderstanding-2017-8/?r=US&IR=T

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## Reashot Xigwin

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL the tariff are only on 1 commodity. Which is Steel that even the Chinese are more than willing to cut production to satisfy Trump's ego
> 
> The "trade war" are just propaganda for his dimwitted voters.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.sg/trump...based-on-a-misunderstanding-2017-8/?r=US&IR=T


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> LOL the tariff are only on 1 commodity. Which is Steel that even the Chinese are more than willing to cut production to satisfy Trump's
> 
> The "trade war" are just propaganda for his dimwitted voters.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.sg/trump...based-on-a-misunderstanding-2017-8/?r=US&IR=T



You are obviously not checking the details. The trade investigation that just started has nothing to do with steel in particular and its very broad, that's why emperor Xi said that it threatens the established trade system. The tariff issue about steel is a totally separate issue that is running its own course. If the trade war thing is just propaganda then why Xi reacted so strongly?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> You are obviously not checking the details. The trade investigation that just started has nothing to do with steel in particular and its very broad, that's why emperor Xi said that it threatens the established trade system. The tariff issue about steel is a totally separate issue that is running its own course. If the trade war thing is just propaganda then why Xi reacted so strongly?


Because chinese company is caught red handed stealing us company secret he'll say anything even it's a "threat to world's market" but Xi is more than willing to compromise & cut steel production to appease trump. Trump just have to make it into a circus act.

Also there is nothing to suggest that there will be an expansion of the "trade war" other than steel. But then again the country is under the control of a man child. So who knows?


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Because chinese company is caught red handed stealing us company secret he'll say anything even it's a "threat to world's market" but Xi is more than willing to compromise & cut steel production to appease trump. Trump just have to make it into a circus act.
> 
> Also there is nothing to suggest that there will be an expansion of the "trade war" other than steel. But then again the country is under the control of a man child. So who knows?



Again, it has nothing to do with steel and is very, very broad, hence Xi's response. You are mixing up totally different trade issues.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> Again, it has nothing to do with steel and is very, very broad, hence Xi's response. You are mixing up totally different trade issues.


A leader will say anything but it doesn't mean anything at the same time. Look at Trump for example or like when you accuse Chinese spokesman of lying about issues like the Doklam or the SCS.

Then do define what this very, very broad things is? Will it extends to other goods & services. Because if so which one & how many? Cite me source too while you at it.

I'm not vietnamese I can't conjur stuffs up based on very, very broad & vague stuffs.

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> A leader will say anything but it doesn't mean anything at the same time. Look at Trump for example or like when you accuse Chinese spokesman of lying about issues like the Doklam or the SCS.
> 
> Then do define what this very, very broad things is? Will it extends to other goods & services. Because if so which one & how many? Cite me source too while you at it.
> 
> I'm not vietnamese I can't conjur stuffs up based on very, very broad & vague stuffs.



There are plenty of links about that, section 301 allows massive trade retaliation, China can bark all it wants that it can also retaliate, but as having a very big trade advantage, they have the most to lose and that's a fact:

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...trade-investigations-against-china-on-monday/

http://thedailycoin.org/2017/08/13/trump-warns-xi-trade-war-china-starts-monday-video/

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/tru...gainst-china-have-some-fearing-trade-war.html

http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/12/trumps-dangerous-trade-tool-000251

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## Viet

News of the day

ExxonMobile is ready to suck gas from the SC sea by November. As welcome greetings to Donald Trump state visit to Vietnam.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> There are plenty of links about that, section 301 allows massive trade retaliation, China can bark all it wants that it can also retaliate, but as having a very big trade advantage, they have the most to lose and that's a fact:
> 
> https://theconservativetreehouse.co...trade-investigations-against-china-on-monday/
> 
> http://thedailycoin.org/2017/08/13/trump-warns-xi-trade-war-china-starts-monday-video/
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/07/tru...gainst-china-have-some-fearing-trade-war.html
> 
> http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2016/12/trumps-dangerous-trade-tool-000251


You viets sure like grasping at straw. The law is not even passed yet & you already counting the chickens before they hatch. [emoji38] 

Whatever we have gone too far off topic anyway mod please erase whatever you see fit.


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## Viet

Aussie defense minister Marise Payne with female sharpshooters. Australia's C-17 Globemaster III aircraft will transport the Vietnamese contingent including 70 doctors and nurses and a complete field hospital to South Sudan. The question is whether or not Australia's airforce will come to rescue should the Vietnamese contingent come under attack.

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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You viets sure like grasping at straw. The law is not even passed yet & you already counting the chickens before they hatch. [emoji38]
> 
> Whatever we have gone too far off topic anyway mod please erase whatever you see fit.



What law? Its an investigation and it has already started. That's all you can come up with once you run out out of arguments?


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## Viet

Legendary since the Vietnam war, s75 anti aircraft missile with new guidance system will be put to field test.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Carlosa said:


> What law? Its an investigation and it has already started. That's all you can come up with once you run out out of arguments?



You can say that it is "very, very vague." [emoji13]


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## Aqsuperman

One think that typhoon is nothing but a propaganda and claim that we are coward to take shelter from the raging sea. Then here come another that don't know the definition between a "law" and a "investigation". Well they are the shining examples of our northen neighbor, folks 

To go back to point of the thread, which has been offtrack for the last 30 pages thanks to several "not so knowledgeable" persons that into tabloid and crap like that, here is some relevant new:

The Japan Self Defence Force intend to retire a sizable number of their aircraft and empty their spare parts. Philipine just got the their hands on the helicopter parts but the main prizes still remain, namely the P-3 Orion plus possibly C-130. There are several contestants in the region for it, Vietnam included. If the VPN can get their hands on even just a part of the JSDF P-3 fleet, the branch anti - submarine capability will be considerbly increased.

...Or we probably got some already lol

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## Viet

Lots of sand...

new roads, new ports, new houses on artificial grounds

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> One think that typhoon is nothing but a propaganda and claim that we are coward to take shelter from the raging sea. Then here come another that don't know the definition between a "law" and a "investigation". Well they are the shining examples of our northen neighbor, folks
> 
> To go back to point of the thread, which has been offtrack for the last 30 pages thanks to several "not so knowledgeable" persons that into tabloid and crap like that, here is some relevant new:
> 
> The Japan Self Defence Force intend to retire a sizable number of their aircraft and empty their spare parts. Philipine just got the their hands on the helicopter parts but the main prizes still remain, namely the P-3 Orion plus possibly C-130. There are several contestants in the region for it, Vietnam included. If the VPN can get their hands on even just a part of the JSDF P-3 fleet, the branch anti - submarine capability will be considerbly increased.
> 
> ...Or we probably got some already lol


Japan is probably the most important country for Vietnam during the years of hardships, providing most of basic things from A to Z. I think, to the people of JP we can be grateful of. Not sure if true I hear there is a saying in Japan: if you come to me, you will never be hungry. I once floated the idea of state union between Vietnam and Japan, hope that comes to reality in my lifetime.

Actress Lam Phuong, a Viet girl named as goodwill ambassador of Japan international cooperation agency.

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## Carlosa

Growing Commerce With India Gives Vietnam New Defense Against China

https://www.voanews.com/a/growing-c...ew-defense-against-china/4008062.html?ref=yfp

I can't post the text since the website is blocked in China, where I am at the moment, maybe someone can post the text? Looks interesting.

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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> Growing Commerce With India Gives Vietnam New Defense Against China
> 
> https://www.voanews.com/a/growing-c...ew-defense-against-china/4008062.html?ref=yfp
> 
> I can't post the text since the website is blocked in China, where I am at the moment, maybe someone can post the text? Looks interesting.


*Growing Commerce With India Gives Vietnam New Defense Against China*
A flood of Indian business in fast-growing Vietnam has solidified commercial ties to help Hanoi upgrade an alliance with a powerful Asian neighbor and offset dependence on its historic rival, the more massive China.

Indian investment in Vietnam has reached $2 billion and bilateral trade hit $10 billion over the year ending in March on its way to $15 billion by 2020, said Radha Krishnan, vice chairman of the Indian Business Chamber of Vietnam.

"As of now that is very easily achievable," Krishnan said. "The last three ... years exports from Vietnam to India have picked up momentum."

*Vietnam has many trade partners*

Last year the two countries agreed to upgrade a "strategic partnership," giving Vietnam more Indian market access, and they will drop import tariffs in 2022 as part of a trade deal with a bloc of Southeast Asian countries.

Those totals hardly match those of Vietnam's long-time investment sources such as Taiwan, South Korea and China. But their growth offers Vietnam a line to the world's second-largest country, helping to reduce dependence on China, which is the world's second-largest economy and Vietnam's biggest trading partner.

China-Vietnam set a trade target of $100 billion in 2016, but the pair disputes a swathe of the South China Sea. Their dispute sparked clashes in 1974, 1988 and 2014.

"The Vietnamese government, they don't want to get an unbalanced investment portfolio where any particular country or region is dominant, because then it just unbalances everything else — foreign policy, domestic politics and everything," said Frederick Burke, partner with the international law firm Baker McKenzie in Ho Chi Minh City.

"As far as people who think about strategic issues are concerned, they would like the Indians to be probably more present in the market, because they're probably behind mainland China in particular," he said. "Everybody wants to balance the two out, be friends with both. That's the ideal situation."

*Robust trade but also continuing disputes with China*

Vietnam depends on China for cheap mass market goods, as well as raw materials for export manufacturing. The two Communist countries fought a border war in the 1970s shortly after what was then South Vietnam lost the Paracel Islands to China. That archipelago is part of the South China Sea.

In 2014, the placement of a Chinese oil rig in the South China Sea east of Vietnam touched off a boat-ramming incident and deadly anti-China riots on land. In June, a Chinese military official cut short his Vietnam visit as the host drilled for oil offshore.

Over the past two decades, Indian farming, garment and pharmaceutical investment have reached Vietnam because of its eager partners, Krishnan said. Low-cost but advanced Indian technology has helped Vietnam farm in dry weather, produce sugar and process cashews, he said. Tata Power of India runs a $1.8 billion thermal power plant in Vietnam.






FILE PHOTO: Flag of PetroVietnam flutters next to Vietnamese national flag and Communist Party flag in front of the headquarters of PetroVietnam in Hanoi Jan. 11, 2016.

For the past three years, the overseas subsidiary of India's government-run ONGC has worked with PetroVietnam Exploration Production Corporation to search for oil and gas in the South China Sea.

About 80,000 Indians visit Vietnam every year, often as tourists looking for business opportunities, and 20,000 go the other way, sometimes as travelers to Buddhist landmarks, Krishnan said.

*India has its own reasons for strengthening trade with Vietnam*

India, for its part, is keen to resist China's expansion in Asia. The two Asian powers are easing just this week a more than two-month-old military standoff in Bhutan. China claims the area in question, and Bhutan called on India to help when the Chinese came to work on a highway project.

Countries that build trade, investment and economic ties do not always become political allies, but in the India-Vietnam case, that fate is "natural," said Alexander Huang, strategic studies professor at Tamkang University in Taiwan. China, he added, is unlikely to flinch at India because Vietnam is chasing stronger ties with other powerful countries, as well.

"You don't need to be a grand strategist to think of diversifying your market," Huang said. "Of course it will have some kind of impact, but so far I do not see one to the degree that will fundamentally change the Chinese perception over Vietnam, because the United States is improving relationships with Vietnam, Japan is improving relationships with Vietnam."

*A need to resist continued Chinese expansion*

Beijing's "belligerence" and escalation of territorial disputes in the seas to the Bhutan border have "served to bring a coalition of China-wary states closer," said Mohan Malik,professor at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu.

Elsewhere in Asia, Indonesia, Myanmar and the Philippines have also tried to balance foreign policies between China and the West, often through trade and investment.

China is expected to keep a special eye out for India's maritime ties with Vietnam. The Indian oil company could work again in the waters off Vietnam, Krishnan said. Officials in Hanoi, he said, would try to protect that investment and others.

"I don't think it's going to be a big problem per se," said Krishnan. "We are very, very positive that both governments will be able to handle that very, very positively. I don't think investments made in Vietnam by a foreign country or company will be at risk."

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## IblinI

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You viets sure like grasping at straw. The law is not even passed yet & you already counting the chickens before they hatch. [emoji38]
> 
> Whatever we have gone too far off topic anyway mod please erase whatever you see fit.


It is nothing compared with the era of TPP.

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## Viet

*Indian offer to sell Brahmos missiles to Vietnam stalled*

MANU PUBBY
August 30, 2017 theprint.in





A file image of the Brahmos missile. Source: Ministry of Defence
*

Vietnam is reconsidering deal as it is in direct talks with Russia for supply of similar missiles*


Contrary to reports earlier this month in the Vietnamese media about sale and delivery of Brahmos cruise missiles, negotiations for the system with India have stalled, with indications that Hanoi is reconsidering the offer.

Sources who did not wish to be named told ThePrint that detailed talks had been held on the sale of the cruise missiles — jointly developed and produced by India and Russia — but the matter got stuck on pricing and technology issues.

India has offered Vietnam a $500 million line of credit for defence-related equipment, but the utilisation of these funds depends on what the nation requires. India is already working on new patrol boats for Vietnam as well as a refit of its older Petya-class warships with modern equipment.

Ironically, the biggest challenge to the Brahmos sale has come from joint developer Russia itself that has similar missiles to offer. Russia, which has seen its international market for arms shrink with growing competition from players like China, has Vietnam as one of its major customers for military equipment.

It is learnt that Hanoi has been in talks with Russia’s NPO Mashinostroyeniya, which makes similar supersonic cruise missiles for the export market, including the Yakhont that can be used for shore defence systems.

While pricing could be one consideration — a direct purchase from Russia could turn out to be cheaper — Vietnam is also looking at some technology transfer that may turn the matter in Moscow’s favour. Besides, Brahmos is marketed by a government-controlled corporation, limiting Indian ability to incentivise sales.

As has been reported, India will weaponise two Petya-class frigates of the Vietnamese Navy to make them fit for an anti-submarine role. The Russian origin frigates are getting new sonar system, torpedo launchers and a modern fire control system.

Vietnam will also get 10 new patrol boats from India as part of an earlier $100 million line of credit. Besides, talks are also on for the high-speed heavy weight ‘Varunastra’ torpedo that has been developed by India.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> *Growing Commerce With India Gives Vietnam New Defense Against China*
> A flood of Indian business in fast-growing Vietnam has solidified commercial ties to help Hanoi upgrade an alliance with a powerful Asian neighbor and offset dependence on its historic rival, the more massive China.
> 
> Indian investment in Vietnam has reached $2 billion and bilateral trade hit $10 billion over the year ending in March on its way to $15 billion by 2020, said Radha Krishnan, vice chairman of the Indian Business Chamber of Vietnam.
> 
> "As of now that is very easily achievable," Krishnan said. "The last three ... years exports from Vietnam to India have picked up momentum."
> 
> *Vietnam has many trade partners*
> 
> Last year the two countries agreed to upgrade a "strategic partnership," giving Vietnam more Indian market access, and they will drop import tariffs in 2022 as part of a trade deal with a bloc of Southeast Asian countries.
> 
> Those totals hardly match those of Vietnam's long-time investment sources such as Taiwan, South Korea and China. But their growth offers Vietnam a line to the world's second-largest country, helping to reduce dependence on China, which is the world's second-largest economy and Vietnam's biggest trading partner.
> 
> China-Vietnam set a trade target of $100 billion in 2016, but the pair disputes a swathe of the South China Sea. Their dispute sparked clashes in 1974, 1988 and 2014.
> 
> "The Vietnamese government, they don't want to get an unbalanced investment portfolio where any particular country or region is dominant, because then it just unbalances everything else — foreign policy, domestic politics and everything," said Frederick Burke, partner with the international law firm Baker McKenzie in Ho Chi Minh City.
> 
> "As far as people who think about strategic issues are concerned, they would like the Indians to be probably more present in the market, because they're probably behind mainland China in particular," he said. "Everybody wants to balance the two out, be friends with both. That's the ideal situation."
> 
> *Robust trade but also continuing disputes with China*
> 
> Vietnam depends on China for cheap mass market goods, as well as raw materials for export manufacturing. The two Communist countries fought a border war in the 1970s shortly after what was then South Vietnam lost the Paracel Islands to China. That archipelago is part of the South China Sea.
> 
> In 2014, the placement of a Chinese oil rig in the South China Sea east of Vietnam touched off a boat-ramming incident and deadly anti-China riots on land. In June, a Chinese military official cut short his Vietnam visit as the host drilled for oil offshore.
> 
> Over the past two decades, Indian farming, garment and pharmaceutical investment have reached Vietnam because of its eager partners, Krishnan said. Low-cost but advanced Indian technology has helped Vietnam farm in dry weather, produce sugar and process cashews, he said. Tata Power of India runs a $1.8 billion thermal power plant in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FILE PHOTO: Flag of PetroVietnam flutters next to Vietnamese national flag and Communist Party flag in front of the headquarters of PetroVietnam in Hanoi Jan. 11, 2016.
> 
> For the past three years, the overseas subsidiary of India's government-run ONGC has worked with PetroVietnam Exploration Production Corporation to search for oil and gas in the South China Sea.
> 
> About 80,000 Indians visit Vietnam every year, often as tourists looking for business opportunities, and 20,000 go the other way, sometimes as travelers to Buddhist landmarks, Krishnan said.
> 
> *India has its own reasons for strengthening trade with Vietnam*
> 
> India, for its part, is keen to resist China's expansion in Asia. The two Asian powers are easing just this week a more than two-month-old military standoff in Bhutan. China claims the area in question, and Bhutan called on India to help when the Chinese came to work on a highway project.
> 
> Countries that build trade, investment and economic ties do not always become political allies, but in the India-Vietnam case, that fate is "natural," said Alexander Huang, strategic studies professor at Tamkang University in Taiwan. China, he added, is unlikely to flinch at India because Vietnam is chasing stronger ties with other powerful countries, as well.
> 
> "You don't need to be a grand strategist to think of diversifying your market," Huang said. "Of course it will have some kind of impact, but so far I do not see one to the degree that will fundamentally change the Chinese perception over Vietnam, because the United States is improving relationships with Vietnam, Japan is improving relationships with Vietnam."
> 
> *A need to resist continued Chinese expansion*
> 
> Beijing's "belligerence" and escalation of territorial disputes in the seas to the Bhutan border have "served to bring a coalition of China-wary states closer," said Mohan Malik,professor at the Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu.
> 
> Elsewhere in Asia, Indonesia, Myanmar and the Philippines have also tried to balance foreign policies between China and the West, often through trade and investment.
> 
> China is expected to keep a special eye out for India's maritime ties with Vietnam. The Indian oil company could work again in the waters off Vietnam, Krishnan said. Officials in Hanoi, he said, would try to protect that investment and others.
> 
> "I don't think it's going to be a big problem per se," said Krishnan. "We are very, very positive that both governments will be able to handle that very, very positively. I don't think investments made in Vietnam by a foreign country or company will be at risk."



Thank you sis, It turned out to be a good article.



Viet said:


> *Indian offer to sell Brahmos missiles to Vietnam stalled*
> 
> MANU PUBBY
> August 30, 2017 theprint.in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A file image of the Brahmos missile. Source: Ministry of Defence
> *
> 
> Vietnam is reconsidering deal as it is in direct talks with Russia for supply of similar missiles*
> 
> 
> Contrary to reports earlier this month in the Vietnamese media about sale and delivery of Brahmos cruise missiles, negotiations for the system with India have stalled, with indications that Hanoi is reconsidering the offer.
> 
> Sources who did not wish to be named told ThePrint that detailed talks had been held on the sale of the cruise missiles — jointly developed and produced by India and Russia — but the matter got stuck on pricing and technology issues.
> 
> India has offered Vietnam a $500 million line of credit for defence-related equipment, but the utilisation of these funds depends on what the nation requires. India is already working on new patrol boats for Vietnam as well as a refit of its older Petya-class warships with modern equipment.
> 
> Ironically, the biggest challenge to the Brahmos sale has come from joint developer Russia itself that has similar missiles to offer. Russia, which has seen its international market for arms shrink with growing competition from players like China, has Vietnam as one of its major customers for military equipment.
> 
> It is learnt that Hanoi has been in talks with Russia’s NPO Mashinostroyeniya, which makes similar supersonic cruise missiles for the export market, including the Yakhont that can be used for shore defence systems.
> 
> While pricing could be one consideration — a direct purchase from Russia could turn out to be cheaper — Vietnam is also looking at some technology transfer that may turn the matter in Moscow’s favour. Besides, Brahmos is marketed by a government-controlled corporation, limiting Indian ability to incentivise sales.
> 
> As has been reported, India will weaponise two Petya-class frigates of the Vietnamese Navy to make them fit for an anti-submarine role. The Russian origin frigates are getting new sonar system, torpedo launchers and a modern fire control system.
> 
> Vietnam will also get 10 new patrol boats from India as part of an earlier $100 million line of credit. Besides, talks are also on for the high-speed heavy weight ‘Varunastra’ torpedo that has been developed by India.



This is mighty interesting, Russia is actually double dealing to undermined India. Not unexpected at all.


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## Farhan Bohra

Carlosa said:


> Thank you sis, It turned out to be a good article.
> 
> 
> 
> This is mighty interesting, Russia is actually double dealing to undermined India. Not unexpected at all.


That is very interesting. 

Russia is in no position to subsidise the military buildup in Vietnam. 

But still trying to block deals.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> That is very interesting.
> 
> Russia is in no position to subsidise the military buildup in Vietnam.
> 
> But still trying to block deals.


Nobody would be surprised. Russia just follows its own strategic interests. Ah I would wonder how much bribe the Chinese are ready to pay to stop iskander sale to Vietnam?

http://tass.com/defense/962806

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Nobody would be surprised. Russia just follows its own strategic interests. Ah I would wonder how much bribe the Chinese are ready to pay to stop iskander sale to Vietnam?
> 
> http://tass.com/defense/962806
> 
> View attachment 422116



They don't need to pay a bribe, they have enough influence as it is.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> They don't need to pay a bribe, they have enough influence as it is.


Lay your trust on VN. We are a weaker party, however similar to the case of Donald Trump, I expect VN will put an attractive offer on the table, comrade Vladimir Putin can't resist.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Lay your trust on VN. We are a weaker party, however similar to the case of Donald Trump, I expect VN will put an attractive offer on the table, comrade Vladimir Putin can't resist.


I don't put my belief on Trump, from these things he did, surely he only cares his interests like his business, he lacks the point of view from a politician. See the wrestling between him and Kim. Like a joking. It is the reason why the Pinoy government changes the policy toward the enemy. Because Dueter understand their ability and the cost to confront Chinese and accept the truth they lost their territories. Philippines people maybe get peace at that time but I suppose they never have a chance to become a powerful nation based on this behaviour but It is the Pinoy problem and doesn't relate to ours. Has news said Chinese drill in Tonkin Gulf.


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## Banglar Bir

teleSUR English
General Giap: Vietnam´s Military Legend.



*Vietnam's, and one of the world's, most successful military generals in history, Von Nguyen Giap, was born in 1911.




 https://www.facebook.com/




*

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> I don't put my belief on Trump, from these things he did, surely he only cares his interests like his business, he lacks the point of view from a politician. See the wrestling between him and Kim. Like a joking. It is the reason why the Pinoy government changes the policy toward the enemy. Because Dueter understand their ability and the cost to confront Chinese and accept the truth they lost their territories. Philippines people maybe get peace at that time but I suppose they never have a chance to become a powerful nation based on this behaviour but It is the Pinoy problem and doesn't relate to ours. Has news said Chinese drill in Tonkin Gulf.


Sis xiao I say lay your trust on VN, not on Donald Trump

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## Viet

*Vietnam/Japan defence consultation*

Sr Lt. General Nguyen Chi Vinh on a visit to the headquarters of the Japanese Ministry of Defense and the reciprocal visit of Japanese defence minister Manabe Ro to Vietnam. the government of Shinzo Abe increases military budget to a record height, once again adding $1.6 billion more to missile defense systems. maybe something we can learn one or two from the Japanese strategy how they deal with missile threat.

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## Viet

9M14 guided armor piercing anti tank missile, range 3,000m. an effective means to stop battalions of enemy tanks.

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## Viet

International Business Times UK
Politics

*China urges Vietnam to remain 'calm' after Hanoi protests against Beijing's South China Sea drills*

Hanoi said it was deeply concerned about the Chinese military exercises in the Gulf of Tonkin area

By Nandini Krishnamoorthy
September 1, 2017 14:29 BST

China has urged Vietnam to remain "calm" and take a "rational view" after Hanoi strongly opposed a military drill that Beijing was planning to conduct in the South China Sea.

Vietnam on Thursday (31 August) protested to the Chinese embassy about what it said was an announcement of military drills in the disputed waterway, amid tensions between the neighbours over territories that both the sides claim.

It is not clear what drills Vietnam was referring to or when such an announcement was made by Beijing. It also did not say when the training exercises might take place.

However, Hanoi said it was deeply concerned about the Chinese military drills in the Gulf of Tonkin area, which is situated in the northern region of the South China Sea.

"Vietnam proposes China to cease and refrain from repeating acts that complicate the situation in the East Sea," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said. Hanoi usually refers to the South China Sea as East Sea.






She continued that all foreign countries must comply with Vietnamese and international laws for any activities conducted in the mineral-rich strategic waterway.

Reacting to Vietnam's opposition, the Chinese Foreign Ministry on Friday (1 September) said the drills were routine exercises that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy were carrying out.

Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying asserted that China had the rights to carry out such drills in the waters there as they were held in Chinese territories. "The relevant sea is under China's jurisdiction," Reuters cited Hua as saying.

"We hope the relevant side can calmly and rationally view it."

Vietnam has long been anxious of renewed Chinese military action targeting the country and driving it off its 21 holdings in the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

Earlier in July, Hanoi came under Chinese pressure to suspend its oil and gas drilling in offshore waters within the "nine-dash line" that China claims.






Vietnamese sailors patrol on Phan Vinh Island in the Spratly archipelago - File photoVietnam News Agency/Reuters

Talisman-Vietnam, a subsidiary of Spain's Repsol Oil, began its gas-drilling expedition on 21 June in an area about 400km (250 miles) off the Vietnamese coast. The drilling was seen by China as an apparent move by Hanoi to reinforce its claims against its bigger rival in the territorial dispute.

The company was ordered to leave the area after China reportedly threatened to attack Vietnamese military bases.

Tensions between Vietnam and China over drilling for oil in the mineral-rich sea date back to 2014 when coastguards from both sides confronted each other in the South China Sea.

Chinese vessels were reported to have intentionally rammed into Vietnamese boats in an area where Beijing had placed a massive oil rig, according to Hanoi.

China's deployment of the first rig sparked a diplomatic standoff with Vietnam in 2014 which also resulted in both countries' navies clashing and anti-China riots erupting across Vietnam.

Both sides have since met for several official talks. Although there has been little progress so far, the two sides have refrained from serious confrontations.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> 9M14 guided armor piercing anti tank missile, range 3,000m. an effective means to stop battalions of enemy tanks.
> 
> View attachment 422356



Those anti tank missiles are actually quite old, but are now being upgraded with a new tandem warhead that can penetrate 750-800 mm of armor and it also has faster speed with a range up to 3 km. After the upgrade, those missiles are still quite effective against modern armor particularly if hitting the right spots.

Here is a pic of the old and new warheads.

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## Viet

What has Wolf Warrior 2 in common with Rambo 2? And what has it to do with VN, why I bring the topic here?

Both "heroes" in the movies are ex elite soldiers being patriots but feeling betrayed by their governments. While Rambo went to Vietnam to free the US prisoners of war, the Chinese hero went to Africa to free Chinese tourists and other individuals. Both kill enemies in mass with lots of effects. Rambo 2 was the third most successful blockbusters of all times back then, while the Chinese clone does great in domestic theaters. More about the PLA and Chinese government in the movie can be read in the following article.


http://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft...r-rambo-aus-dem-reich-der-mitte-15143149.html


WOLF WARRIORS 2
*Der Rambo aus dem Reich der Mitte*
VON HENDRIK ANKENBRAND, SCHANGHAI
AKTUALISIERT AM 09.08.2017








Ein von Patriotismus durchsetzter Actionfilm bricht an Chinas Kinokassen alle Rekorde – neuer Nationalismus in der Volksrepublik? Die chinesische Filmindustrie zeigt nur, wie gut sie von Hollywood gelernt hat.

Es ist ein Filmskript ganz nach dem Geschmack des Massenpublikums: Ein Elitesoldat außer Dienst muss fern der Heimat in einem exotischen Land vom Tod bedrohte Landsleute retten. Die Aufgabe erledigt er mit reichlich Muskel- und noch mehr Feuerkraft sowie einer Prise trockenem Humors. Auf und jenseits des Schlachtfelds weht dabei stets ein eine gehörige Brise Nationalstolz durch die Luft.

„Die stärksten Gefühle, die ein Mann hat, sind sein Glaube, seine Liebe für seine Angehörigen und seine Liebe für sein Land“, sagt der Hauptdarsteller des Actionstreifens im Interview. „Wenn Du keine Männer hast, die bereit sind, für ihr Land zu sterben, dann hast Du kein Land.“

Das sagte Hollywood-Star Sylvester Stallone im Jahr 1985 der „New York Times“, als sein neuer Film „Rambo II“ in den ersten sechs Tagen an den Kinokassen in Amerika damals außergewöhnlich hohe Einnahmen von 32,5 Millionen Dollar eingespielt hatte. Das machte die Geschichte des Vietnam-Veterans John Rambo, der im zweiten Teil der Saga um den früheren Elitesoldaten mit den schier übermenschlichen Kräften zurück in den vietnamesischen Dschungel kehrte und alte Kameraden rettete, zum bis dahin dritterfolgreichsten Film überhaupt. Nur „Indiana Jones und der Tempel des Todes“ sowie der dritte „Star Wars“-Spielfilm „Die Rückkehr der Jedi-Ritter“ hatten bis zu diesem Zeitpunkt mehr Umsatz generiert.

*Leng Feng, Peng*
Gut dreißig Jahre später scheint der amerikanische Kriegsheld „Rambo“ wieder auferstanden – in Gestalt seines chinesischen Pendants namens Leng Feng. Der frühere Elitesoldat und späteres Mitglied einer chinesischen Spezialeinheit mit dem Titel „Kriegswölfe“ rettet durchtrainiert und mit allerlei Kampfkunst gesegnet im tiefsten Afrika chinesische Landsleute aus den Wirren eines Bürgerkrieges – und jede Menge unschuldiger Afrikaner gleich mit.

„Wolf Warriors 2“ heißt der Film aus chinesischer Eigenproduktion, der in den ersten 13 Tagen seit der Premiere so viele Chinesen ins Kino gelockt hat, dass er bis einschließlich Dienstag laut der Filmdatenbank Maoyan mehr als 3,5 Milliarden Yuan eingespielt hat (446 Millionen Euro) – und das bei Herstellungkosten von gerade mal 200 Millionen Yuan (26 Millionen Euro), einem Siebzehntel.

Der Film trägt den Untertitel „Wer immer China angreift, wird getötet, egal wie weit das Ziel entfernt ist“. Das und die Tatsache, dass im Film die chinesische Marine eine Nebenrolle spielt und reichlich chinesische Nationalflaggen über die Leinwand wehen, hat in manchen Medien bereits Sorge vor dem Wiederaufkeimen des Nationalismus in China hervorgerufen.

„Patriotisch“ sei der Plot, argwöhnte die „Financial Times“ in der Überschrift. Die Hongkonger „South China Morning Post“ machte einen „nationalistischen Ton“ in dem Kassenschlager aus und schlussfolgerte, dass der Film aus diesem Grund im Ausland niemals Erfolg haben werde.

Tatsächlich präsentiert sich Produzent, Regisseur und Hauptdarsteller Wu Jing, vor 43 Jahren in Peking geboren und in China als Martial Arts-Star bekannt, bei der Vorstellung des Film neben überdimensionalen Ausgaben chinesischer Reisepässe, während im Hintergrund Hunderte Fans chinesische Nationalflaggen schwangen.

*Selbstironie*
Nationalismus allerdings dürfte zumindest den Erfolg dieses Films kaum erklären. Kurz vor dem Start von „Wolf Warrior 2“ brachte Pekings Propagandamaschinerie den Spielfilm „Die Gründung einer Armee“ ins Kino, die tatsächlich von Nationalismus getränkte Geschichte der Volksbefreiungsarmee, deren 90-jähriges Bestehen Chinas Präsident Xi Jinping jüngst in einer markigen Ansprache und mit dem Besuch einer voller noch nie gezeigtem Kriegsgerät starrenden Militärparade gewürdigt hat. An den Kinokassen ist der Film jedoch gefloppt.

Nachdem sich die F.A.Z. in Schanghai den Kassenschlager „Wolf Warrior 2“ am gestrigen Dienstagabend angesehen hat, muss konstatiert werden: von nationalistischem Überschwang im Kinopublikum kann nicht berichtet werden. Dafür ist der Film stellenweise auch zu selbstironisch und spielt zuweilen in vergleichsweise überraschender Deutlichkeit mit anti-chinesischen Klischees.

*Freundschaft mit Afrika*
Der Erfolg des Streifens, das wird auch aus den Kommentaren der Kinogänger in den Sozialen Medien in China deutlich, ist eher in seiner Machart begründet, die sich klar am Vorbild der „Rambo“-Saga aus Hollywood orientiert. Bei Chinas neuem Kassenschlager handelt es sich um ein zwei Stunden dauerndes Actionspektakel von beachtlicher Qualität, das auch für Ausländer vergnüglich anzusehen ist. Die Kommunistische Partei wird überhaupt nicht thematisiert; die chinesische Regierung kommt nur in Gestalt eines Botschafters vor. Die Marine feuert zum Schluss ein paar Lenkraketen ab, das war es auch schon.

Im Hintergrundrauschen berichtet „Wolf Warriors“ dabei von einer größeren Rolle Chinas auf der Weltbühne und feiert die Freundschaft des Landes mit Afrika, in dem chinesische Unternehmen in den vergangenen Jahren groß investiert haben.

*Der Wolf kommt wieder*
„Wir müssen von anderen Ländern lernen“, hat Chinas Modernisierer Deng Xiaoping einst gesagt, als er die Wirtschaft des Landes öffnete. Die chinesische Filmindustrie hat die Worte nun in die Tat umgesetzt. Auch im Hinblick auf das schier endlose Strecken des Vermarktungszyklus, den Hollywood schon lange vor „Rambo“ mustergültig vorgemacht hatte.

In der Endsequenz von „Wolf Warriors 2“ erreicht den Helden Leng Feng inmitten des Ausruhens vom anstrengenden Rettungseinsatz in Afrika schon wieder der Anruf eines Vorgesetzten – mit dem Auftrag für eine neue Mission. Wie einst John Rambo wird wohl auch seine chinesische Entsprechung noch oft auf die Kinoleinwände zurückkehren – schließlich übersteigt kaum etwas die „Liebe für Dein Land“.




Quelle: FAZ.NET




Hendrik Ankenbrand
Wirtschaftskorrespondent für China mit Sitz in Schanghai.


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## Carlosa

Has India Secretly Supplied Vietnam with Brahmos Supersonic Missiles?
ASIA & PACIFIC
updated 04:02 02.09.2017

Vietnamese state media claim Hanoi and New Delhi not only agreed on a deal to send BrahMos supersonic projectiles to Hanoi, but also say the weapons have been delivered. India’s Ministry of External Relations, though, denies such a deal exists.

When asked specifically about the acquisition of the BrahMos, Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Thi Thu Hang said on August 18 “the procurement of defense equipment by Vietnam is consistent with the policy of peace and self-defense and is the normal practice in self-defense.”

India’s External Relations Ministry said reports of BrahMos cruise missiles reaching Hanoi were “incorrect” August 22. 

Whether the deal has been completed could have major strategic implications. First, the short-range ramjet supersonic cruise missile has a 600-kilometer range that puts some Chinese-owned features in the South China Sea in range. The level of tension between Hanoi and Beijing peaked recently when the People’s Liberation Army threatened to attack Vietnamese posts in the South China Sea if a joint venture between Hanoi and Madrid to explore oil fields there wasn’t called off.



Secondly, Beijing and New Dehli have only just ended a chilling military standoff at the Doklam Plateau that began in mid-June. With bilateral relations between China and India already sensitive, the shipment of the fastest missiles on Earth to Vietnam could spark unwanted rifts.

The BrahMos is made jointly by India’s Defence Research and Development Organization and NPO Mashinostroyenia, which was formed by New Dehli and Moscow in 1998.

Vietnam remains a central aspect of India’s Act East foreign policy initiative to build influence in Southeast Asia. In the same way Beijing has cultivated ties with Pakistan, a country perennially at odds with India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has sought deeper relations with Hanoi, the Diplomat reports. In 2016, Modi made the first trip by an Indian prime minister to Vietnam in 15 years as the countries’ leaders toasted to 10 years of strategic partnership.


On August 10, US Defense Secretary James Mattis announced that a US aircraft carrier would drop anchor off Vietnam’s coast in 2018 as Vietnam becomes a more important counterweight to Beijing. And just on Friday, the Wall Street Journal broke news that the Pentagon had finalized a schedule for the US Navy to conduct freedom of navigation operations (FONOPs) in the South China Sea “to create a more consistent posture to counter China’s maritime claims there.”

Beijing has routinely bashed FONOPs, though Washington views them as a way to highlight its excessive claims in the South China Sea. US Pacific Command has completed the finishing touches on a plan to conduct two or three FONOPs over the next few months, unnamed US officials told the WSJ.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201709021057016649-india-secretly-supplied-vietnam-missiles/

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## Viet

More infrastructure for Vietnam remote islands. More for the SC sea. Southeast Asia longest sea crossing bridge: 5.4 km Tân Vũ bridge in the northern part of Vietnam, part of a highway, built with a cost of more than half billion dollar.

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## Viet

VN oil rigs. More to come.

Maybe sea mines should be laid out to protect our territories and assets against unwanted guests and other individuals.

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## RISING SUN

*Chinese cyber spies broaden attacks in Vietnam, security firm says*
Cyber spies working for or on behalf of China’s government have broadened attacks against official and corporate targets in Vietnam at a time of raised tension over the South China Sea, cyber security company FireEye said.

FireEye told Reuters the attacks happened in recent weeks and it had traced them back to suspected Chinese cyber spies based partly on the fact that a Chinese group it had identified previously had used the same infrastructure before.

“Where China has often focused on the government before, this shows they are really hitting the full commercial sector potentially in Vietnam and trying to gather a broad base of information there,” said Ben Read, who heads FireEye’s cyber espionage team.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said China opposed all forms of illegal internet activities or stealing of secrets and also opposed any accusations from any side against any country on the issue without cast-iron proof.

Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said cyber attacks should be severely punished in accordance with the law and that it was important for countries to secure their networks.

Vietnam denies allowing cyber espionage although it has also been accused by FireEye of carrying out attacks.

*STRAINS *
Tension between China and neighboring Vietnam is at its highest in three years over the disputed South China Sea, where Vietnam has emerged as the most vocal opponents of Beijing’s extensive claims.

Vietnam suspended oil drilling in offshore waters that are also claimed by China in July under pressure from Beijing.

China has appeared uneasy at Vietnam’s efforts to rally Southeast Asian countries over the South China Sea as well as at its growing defense relationships with the United States, Japan and India.

China claims nearly all the South China Sea, through which an estimated $3 trillion in international trade passes each year. Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan also have claims.

FireEye said the attacks in Vietnam involved sending users documents in Vietnamese which appeared to be requests for financial information. A broad range of companies appeared to have been targeted, including financial institutions, it said without giving specific details.

When the user opened them, they delivered malware which could infect a computer and send back information to the cyber spies, potentially letting them into the computer network too.

FireEye linked the attacks to a team it calls Conimes because in the past it used the conimes.com domain. The team focuses on Southeast Asia, but its main target is Vietnam and even more so since tensions rose over the South China Sea, Read said.

He was unable to say exactly what information had been gathered.

Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang called earlier this month for tighter Internet controls to provide better protection against cyber threats as well as to prevent websites and social media publishing material damaging to the communist party.

Read said the attacks it had discovered on Vietnam were relatively unsophisticated and relied on users having pre-2012 versions of Microsoft Word.

“They are using comparatively simple techniques because apparently they work,” he said.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-in-vietnam-security-firm-says-idUSKCN1BB0I5

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## Aqsuperman

Anti - aircraft training exercise on 011 Dinh Tien Hoang Gepard class 

Rush to the AK 176. A PK 16 82mm flare launcher is also present






Jump into the turret 





And pop out the little visor 





Man the 14.5mm






Fire fighting and getting the water out

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## xiao qi

VietNam *Gepard 486,487






*

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## Viet

Highspeed transport vessel, 25m long, 26 knots, manufactured by 189 shipyard, can be used as troop transporter, with a cost just 1/3 of comparable European made vessels.














RoK coast guard vessel Badaro 1503 is coming to Vietnam. The Koreans are said to bring a gift. We will see.

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## Viet

A Vietnamese nuclear scientist makes a calculation how much it costs for N Korea to go nuclear. Interesting. It is not as much as some might think the case of Vietnam.

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## Viet

Members of RoK coast guard on a visit to Vietnam. Seriously speaking we should offer refugee status to rich and educated Koreans who are forced to flee the country. A war on Korean Peninsula can break out at any moment.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Members of RoK coast guard on a visit to Vietnam. Seriously speaking we should offer refugee status to rich and educated Koreans who are forced to flee the country. A war on Korean Peninsula can break out at any moment.
> 
> View attachment 423242
> View attachment 423243
> View attachment 423244



Rich and educated only? Lol that is evil.

And I doubt koreans would want to be immigrants to Vietnam.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Rich and educated only? Lol that is evil.
> 
> And I doubt koreans would want to be immigrants to Vietnam.


Where will they go if a war breaks out devastating the country? Japan? ha ha. China? Ha ha ha. 100,000 Koreans live in Vietnam. we can integrate 1 million Koreans without any problems. No we are not evil 

Haven't you once said the German consumers won't buy vietnam made smartphone? Wait a moment.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Where will they go if a war breaks out devastating the country? Japan? ha ha. China? Ha ha ha. 100,000 Koreans live in Vietnam. we can integrate 1 million Koreans without any problems. No we are not evil
> 
> Haven't you once said the German consumers won't buy vietnam made smartphone? Wait a moment.
> 
> View attachment 423315
> View attachment 423316



I did say that and I stand by my statement lol.

Vietnam is just not a place where 1st world citizen would want to immigrate to en masse.


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## frequency

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You viets sure like grasping at straw. The law is not even passed yet & you already counting the chickens before they hatch. [emoji38]
> 
> Whatever we have gone too far off topic anyway mod please erase whatever you see fit.



Did someone hurt your feelings?

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## Viet

For the first time ever, test firing one of the most advanced medium range surface to air missiles: Spyder MR


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## Viet

Also for the first time ever, an Egypt president vists Vietnam: the strongman el-Sisi. One of many agreements: VN/Egypt establishing sea trade between the two nations.

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## Viet

Asked by a reporter what stance Vietnam has on the plan of the US of frequent patrols in the SC Sea, the foreign ministry spokeswoman Thị Thu Hằng on 7/9 says Vietnam welcomes all efforts of all nations if they contribute to peace and respect international norms.

Translation: Vietnam okays to the US military buildup in the SC sea.

Much expected.







We can expect the Camranh bay will become a major re-supply base for US Pacific Fleet operating the region. Win win for all. Our people can fish can drill for oil in our waters without being harassed or threatened by war by a well-known hooligan.










In a interview with Times of India on September 7, Vietnam's ambassador to India *Ton Sinh* *Thanh* says Vietnam seeks to buy weapons from India and encourages India to continue to drill for oil in Vietnam waters. That is within the rights of Vietnam.

Anyone says otherwise can shut up.

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## Viet

Made by Damen Vietnam shipyard, tug boats en masse for Europe.













But Vietnam lacks the capacity of warship building. during the recent visit of Egypt president and Ukraine Foreign minister to Vietnam, several agreements are signed to strengthen cooperation between the nations' shipbuilders.

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## Viet

Now a official figure. VN is a middle low income country but its nationals spend $3.02b for buying homes in the United States in 2016 according to the State Bank of Vietnam. No figure available how much Vietnamese buy houses in other countries as Singapore, Japan or Australia.






Ok due to lack of news of new weapon purchases I post from other activities. Among other things Vietnam and Serbia have agreed to abolish visa requirements for both countries nationals during the visit of Serbia foreign minister Ivica Dacic to Vietnam. Previously Vietnam signs similar no visa agreement with Chile.

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## Aqsuperman

Using the same formula as the Ural 105mm truck howitzer, we now have the ZU 23mm AA truck with Igla.

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## TenLua

Need 10,000 of these puppies in preparation for chinese meat grinder tactics.

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## Viet

*Serbia, Vietnam abolish visas; Hanoi won't recognize Kosovo*

Serbian First Deputy PM and Foreign Minister Ivica Dacic met on Friday in Hanoi with Vietnam's Deputy PM and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh.

SOURCE: SRBIJA.GOV.RS FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 8, 2017 | 15:11






In a cordial and friendly conversation, the two ministers identified the upcoming activities aimed at expanding bilateral cooperation and mutual support on the international level, the Serbian government announced.

The interlocutors "recalled the decades-long friendship and cooperation between the two nations and the two countries, which this year mark 60 years of establishing diplomatic relations." 

Dacic informed his interlocutor in detail about current political developments in Serbia, the course of reforms, and about the priorities of our country's foreign policy. 

The two officials agreed that the very good and friendly relations between the two countries need to be improved by strengthening economic cooperation and by intensifying the exchange of visits at the high and highest level. 

They also agreed to organize an economic forum to present the economic and investment potential of the two countries, and Dacic invited his host to visit Serbia soon. 

Dacic also announced on Friday that Serbia and Vietnam have decided to abolish visas for all citizens of the two countries. 

The foreign minister said that Vietnam will adhere to its position not to recognize Kosovo, while Serbia will support Vietnam in international forums, Tanjug reported.


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## Viet

Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) expects Vietnam to buy the technology of Israel to self produce Spyder systems.







Seoul 8/9. Senior Lt. Nguyễn Chí Vịnh with vice defense minister Suh Choo-suk. RoK provides $20m for mine clearing efforts and looks to provide additional coast guard vessels.







Test firing armor piercing SPG/9T2

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## warzone

terranMarine said:


> PLA is a joke then why your supa stronk Vietcong army is acting like a chicken? When we threaten with war you cowards told the Spanish to stop drilling




When I'm pointing my finger at the moon, you are the dumb guy that look at my finger instead of the moon. You want a part of a huge forest, why risking a war for cutting a single tree of that forest? Did China also stop drilling Haiyang Shiyou 981 because threat of war or they don’t want a war? China may win in South China sea but at what cost… Any military confrontation will start something that nobody can predict the end.

If Vietnam lose a confrontation with China, it will be the end of the current VCP leadership (and I don’t think China want a change of leadership or regime in VN because ) a new leadership will for sure go (running) to the West, then Viet Nam will enjoy huge sympathy around the world for fighting a bigger aggressor, China will end up with the same type of economic and political embargo after Tiananmen square massacre 1989 and it also will just speed up a faster pace the militarization of VN (China will have even a bigger military enemy in VN at south of border then now). Any military confrontation would also provoke major economic instability then social instability (slow economy= closing factories) for both countries.

PLA will go against VN,( a rich military tradition nation with a sizable and capable army) not against a newborn tiny nation like East-Timor. PLA will probably win the conflict in South China Sea but if PLA come out with a bloody nose or perform poorly like in 1979, it would just shatter the mighty and invincibility image it try to build this last decades and nobody would take seriously PLA as a competent force anymore . if I was you and all those Chinese warmongers, I will be nervous as hell to see how PLA will perform in real military conflict against a capable enemy. By the meantime, China can keep throwing threats around like giving candies on Halloween day but eventually one day PLA will have to stop barking and start to bite if you want others nations take you seriously and respect PLA

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## Carlosa

warzone said:


> When I'm pointing my finger at the moon, you are the dumb guy that look at my finger instead of the moon. You want a part of a huge forest, why risking a war for cutting a single tree of that forest? Did China also stop drilling Haiyang Shiyou 981 because threat of war or they don’t want a war? China may win in South China sea but at what cost… Any military confrontation will start something that nobody can predict the end.
> 
> If Vietnam lose a confrontation with China, it will be the end of the current VCP leadership (and I don’t think China want a change of leadership or regime in VN because ) a new leadership will for sure go (running) to the West, then Viet Nam will enjoy huge sympathy around the world for fighting a bigger aggressor, China will end up with the same type of economic and political embargo after Tiananmen square massacre 1989 and it also will just speed up a faster pace the militarization of VN (China will have even a bigger military enemy in VN at south of border then now). Any military confrontation would also provoke major economic instability then social instability (slow economy= closing factories) for both countries.
> 
> PLA will go against VN,( a rich military tradition nation with a sizable and capable army) not against a newborn tiny nation like East-Timor. PLA will probably win the conflict in South China Sea but if PLA come out with a bloody nose or perform poorly like in 1979, it would just shatter the mighty and invincibility image it try to build this last decades and nobody would take seriously PLA as a competent force anymore . if I was you and all those Chinese warmongers, I will be nervous as hell to see how PLA will perform in real military conflict against a capable enemy. By the meantime, China can keep throwing threats around like giving candies on Halloween day but eventually one day PLA will have to stop barking and start to bite if you want others nations take you seriously and respect PLA



Well said and as the situation in Doklam already demonstrated, China is all about barking and no biting.


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## Viet

leaders of Russia and Japan are coming to attend Apec Vietnam 2017 with Japan expecting the beginning of peace treaty negotiation. technically both countries are still at war. amazing. the US president will come. unclear whether the communist leader of China will come. due to recent escalation with VN he probably will miss the event.







I wonder whether all Danang´s facilities, roads, and other things will be complete on time?@Carlosa you probably has more info.


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## Viet

Fresh produced ammunition OG9 developed for a special unwanted guest


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## Viet

It is reported RoK warships as destroyer ROKS Kang Gam Chan and accompanying vessels on route to Vietnam for port visit and joint exercise. Welcome!


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## terranMarine

warzone said:


> When I'm pointing my finger at the moon, you are the dumb guy that look at my finger instead of the moon. You want a part of a huge forest, why risking a war for cutting a single tree of that forest? Did China also stop drilling Haiyang Shiyou 981 because threat of war or they don’t want a war? *China may win in South China sea but at what cost*… Any military confrontation will start something that nobody can predict the end.
> 
> *If Vietnam lose a confrontation with China*, it will be the end of the current VCP leadership (and I don’t think China want a change of leadership or regime in VN because ) a new leadership will for sure go (running) to the West, then Viet Nam will enjoy huge sympathy around the world for fighting a bigger aggressor, *China will end up with the same type of economic and political embargo after Tiananmen square massacre 1989 and it also will just speed up a faster pace the militarization of VN (China will have even a bigger military enemy in VN at south of border then now).* Any military confrontation would also provoke major economic instability then social instability (slow economy= closing factories) for both countries.
> 
> *PLA will go against VN,( a rich military tradition nation with a sizable and capable army)* not against a newborn tiny nation like East-Timor. PLA will probably win the conflict in South China Sea but if PLA come out with a bloody nose or perform poorly like in 1979, it would just shatter the mighty and invincibility image it try to build this last decades and nobody would take seriously PLA as a competent force anymore . if I was you and all those Chinese warmongers, I will be nervous as hell to see how PLA will perform in real military conflict against a capable enemy. By the meantime, China can keep throwing threats around like giving candies on Halloween day but eventually one day PLA will have to stop barking and start to bite if you want others nations take you seriously and respect PLA



Tough talk which is typical coming from you monkeys. Always bragging how mighty the Vietnamese army, navy or airforce are. Nobody takes you guys serious other than that fake Spanish dude here and some of your gullible brethren. 

Look at what you are saying: 
_China *MAY* win in SCS but at what cost._ 
So who is gonna challenge PLAN? Your pathetic Naval force? Indonesian Navy? PH ? Malaysia? Even Japanese Navy is no match.

_*If Vietnam lose a confrontation with China*, *China will end up with the same type of economic and political embargo after Tiananmen square massacre 1989 and it also will just speed up a faster pace the militarization of VN (China will have even a bigger military enemy in VN at south of border then now).*_
So once VN loses to China in a conflict, VN will speed up faster militarization and VN army will become bigger threat to China? Okay can somebody here tell me what is wrong with this logic?
Economical and political embargo will be placed on China for Vietnam? 
About the Tiananmen Square incident and the embargo that followed i guess you must be reading too much western propaganda stuff and not only that you even wrote BS about the type of embargo that was placed on China by US.

*PLA will go against VN,( a rich military tradition nation with a sizable and capable army)*
Okay thanks for letting us know how mighty the VN army is, i suppose we are now quaking in fear for Vietnam now. Yes VN as a rich military experienced country even China's ancient existence cannot dream to match Vietnam's capabilities. Mmm i guess the 1006 years of serving Imperial China does tell a different kind of tale.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Tough talk which is typical coming from you monkeys. Always bragging how mighty the Vietnamese army, navy or airforce are. Nobody takes you guys serious other than that fake Spanish dude here and some of your gullible brethren.
> 
> Look at what you are saying:
> _China *MAY* win in SCS but at what cost._
> So who is gonna challenge PLAN? Your pathetic Naval force? Indonesian Navy? PH ? Malaysia? Even Japanese Navy is no match.
> 
> _*If Vietnam lose a confrontation with China*, *China will end up with the same type of economic and political embargo after Tiananmen square massacre 1989 and it also will just speed up a faster pace the militarization of VN (China will have even a bigger military enemy in VN at south of border then now).*_
> So once VN loses to China in a conflict, VN will speed up faster militarization and VN army will become bigger threat to China? Okay can somebody here tell me what is wrong with this logic?
> Economical and political embargo will be placed on China for Vietnam?
> About the Tiananmen Square incident and the embargo that followed i guess you must be reading too much western propaganda stuff and not only that you even wrote BS about the type of embargo that was placed on China by US.
> 
> *PLA will go against VN,( a rich military tradition nation with a sizable and capable army)*
> Okay thanks for letting us know how mighty the VN army is, i suppose we are now quaking in fear for Vietnam now. Yes VN as a rich military experienced country even China's ancient existence cannot dream to match Vietnam's capabilities. Mmm i guess the 1006 years of serving Imperial China does tell a different kind of tale.


Human and monkey are identical in 99.4 percent of DNA I don't believe Chinese are much different, so behave yourself. Monkey is YOUR brother. 

Every schoolkid in the world (except China) knows VN is the only country that defeats America. Yes VN is the only country that crushed America, France and China in a row. Ok Cambodia is the fourth.

China first invasion of Vietnam was successful because back then we didn't have any army, not a single soldier. Our people believed too much of China peaceful rise. What a mistake.

But end of the day, Ngo Nguyen led Vietnam out of slavery after crushing the Chinese army at a decisive battle of the Red river.

When did you win a war against a external military power except a small victory against India? I can't remember maybe you can tell.

In no time China dominates the Asian waters. Japan and Champ did. China dominated the commercial sea for a short while during the Ming when an eunuch sailed thru our waters. It's too early to say PLA warships can harass anyone you like.

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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Human and monkey are identical in 99.4 percent of DNA I don't believe Chinese are much different, so behave yourself. Monkey is YOUR brother.
> 
> *Every schoolkid in the world (except China) knows VN is the only country that defeats America.* *Yes VN is the only country that crushed America, France and China in a row. Ok Cambodia is the fourth.*
> 
> *China first invasion of Vietnam was successful* because back then we didn't have any army, not a single soldier. Our people believed too much of China peaceful rise. What a mistake.
> 
> But end of the day, Ngo Nguyen led Vietnam *out of slavery* after crushing the Chinese army at a decisive battle of the Red river.
> 
> When did you win a war against a external military power except a small victory against India? I can't remember maybe you can tell.
> 
> In no time China dominates the Asian waters. Japan and Champ did. China dominated the commercial sea for a short while during the Ming when an eunuch sailed thru our waters. It's too early to say PLA warships can harass anyone you like.



The world knows the Yankees went back home by themselves, did not surrender to Vietcongs after killing you mofo for 20 years. You didn't defeat them and certainly not by yourself. Without China's aid and assistance the Yankees would have finished you guys sooner instead of fighting for 2 decades with no sight of ending. Vietnam would have been enslaved by the Yankees after the French/Japs.

As for defeating the French why don't you read this




Without China's help you mofo couldn't do sh!t to the French. That's right you are nothing but ingrate.

China's first invasion was successful? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam (*4 domination* of Vietnam) FOUR FOOKING DOMINATIONS.

If Vietnam army was so strong it would not have ended up as French slaves. French had total occupation of Vietnam or are you denying it?

China had the biggest Naval force during the Ming for trade and discovery. The Naval force was cut in size and forgotten because the following Emperor moved the capital to the North dealing with the Mongels. The Ming Naval force didn't become weak all of a sudden. This however has nothing to do with PLA Navy of today. So which ASEAN is gonna challenge us in SCS? You wanna beg USA or Japan to save your a*s?

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> The world knows the Yankees went back home by themselves, did not surrender to Vietcongs after killing you mofo for 20 years. You didn't defeat them and certainly not by yourself. Without China's aid and assistance the Yankees would have finished you guys sooner instead of fighting for 2 decades with no sight of ending. Vietnam would have been enslaved by the Yankees after the French/Japs.
> 
> As for defeating the French why don't you read this
> View attachment 424632
> 
> Without China's help you mofo couldn't do sh!t to the French. That's right you are nothing but ingrate.
> 
> China's first invasion was successful? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam (*4 domination* of Vietnam) FOUR FOOKING DOMINATIONS.
> 
> If Vietnam army was so strong it would not have ended up as French slaves. French had total occupation of Vietnam or are you denying it?
> 
> China had the biggest Naval force during the Ming for trade and discovery. The Naval force was cut in size and forgotten because the following Emperor moved the capital to the North dealing with the Mongels. The Ming Naval force didn't become weak all of a sudden. This however has nothing to do with PLA Navy of today. So which ASEAN is gonna challenge us in SCS? You wanna beg USA or Japan to save your a*s?


Normally I don't reply to idiots but I make an exemption here. Winning a war is NOT who kills more men, women and children than the other party but who achieves the objective. Vietnam goal is expelling the foreigners and uniting the country. Both objectives are achieved. Sure the PLA won the war because you pumped poison gas into civilian bunkers killing all women and children , while we failed to do the same to your people.

The USSR delivered tanks, warplanes, ammunition, money, clothing, assistance, training, food and everything. What about you? Can you list what China delivered? Chopstick and porcelains? I saw some Chinese made t59 tanks, donated by Chinese communist brothers. How ironic: the PLA used the same tanks when attacking Vietnam in 1979. Thanks.


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> Normally I don't reply to idiots but I make an exemption here. Winning a war is NOT who kills more men, women and children than the other party but who achieves the objective. Vietnam goal is expelling the foreigners and uniting the country. Both objectives are achieved. Sure the PLA won the war because you pumped poison gas into civilian bunkers killing all women and children , while we failed to do the same to your people.
> 
> The USSR delivered tanks, warplanes, ammunition, money, clothing, assistance, training, food and everything. What about you? Can you list what China delivered? Chopstick and porcelains? I saw some Chinese made t59 tanks, donated by Chinese communist brothers. How ironic: the PLA used the same tanks when attacking Vietnam in 1979. Thanks.
> 
> View attachment 424725



When losing the argument one can only resort to talking about unrelated nonsense. Such is the behavior of deluded losers. Keep up the bragging, it will only make it sweeter when VCP next time make another stupid move inviting another war threat from CCP. I'll get to see how supa powa Vietcongs kowtow again.


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> When losing the argument one can only resort to talking about unrelated nonsense. Such is the behavior of deluded losers. Keep up the bragging, it will only make it sweeter when VCP next time make another stupid move inviting another war threat from CCP. I'll get to see how supa powa Vietcongs kowtow again.


Do what you like, our ways should never cross though, we don't want to see another ugly war.


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## warzone

Carlosa said:


> Well said and as the situation in Doklam already demonstrated, China is all about barking and no biting.




So far this year, China have threatened of war 3 countries (Philippines, Viet Nam and India) and the year 2017 is not over yet..LOL ! Average Joe like @terranMarine like to believe that China scare other nations to submission but reality is a lot differents . Behind close door, the negociations and deals are done in lot less threatening manner. China just want to win a war of face, coming out with her head up and making people believe it’s because of military threats. At the end of the day we are all go back to square uno, nothing change.



terranMarine said:


> Tough talk which is typical coming from you monkeys. Always bragging how mighty the Vietnamese army, navy or airforce are. Nobody takes you guys serious other than that fake Spanish dude here and some of your gullible brethren.
> 
> Look at what you are saying:
> _China *MAY* win in SCS but at what cost._
> So who is gonna challenge PLAN? Your pathetic Naval force? Indonesian Navy? PH ? Malaysia? Even Japanese Navy is no match.
> 
> _*If Vietnam lose a confrontation with China*, *China will end up with the same type of economic and political embargo after Tiananmen square massacre 1989 and it also will just speed up a faster pace the militarization of VN (China will have even a bigger military enemy in VN at south of border then now).*_
> So once VN loses to China in a conflict, VN will speed up faster militarization and VN army will become bigger threat to China? Okay can somebody here tell me what is wrong with this logic?
> Economical and political embargo will be placed on China for Vietnam?
> About the Tiananmen Square incident and the embargo that followed i guess you must be reading too much western propaganda stuff and not only that you even wrote BS about the type of embargo that was placed on China by US.
> 
> *PLA will go against VN,( a rich military tradition nation with a sizable and capable army)*
> Okay thanks for letting us know how mighty the VN army is, i suppose we are now quaking in fear for Vietnam now. Yes VN as a rich military experienced country even China's ancient existence cannot dream to match Vietnam's capabilities. Mmm i guess the 1006 years of serving Imperial China does tell a different kind of tale.



Haha you too Terrine you barking like PLA. Nobody said VN army is strong, I said a capable force with a rich military tradition. By distorting my comment and your short sighted vision just show you are not the brightest light in this forum. Please go tell PLA to go out and take all the land they want, easy like a walk to the park. Also at the same time, PLA should also go get back those land you lost not long ago. Please wake me up when your mighty PLA get an inch of land.








Viet Nam already receive modest military donations (US, Japan, ect) and other aids. Now imagine short sighted @ that PLA attack Viet Nam on one of those rocks or whatever in SCS, don’t you think Viet Nam enjoy a lot more military donations, aids, credit lines, discount military equipments, ect? And do you think Viet Nam defence budget will get a nice boost too after the attack? After the Chinese attack, do you think the Vietnamese people are lack of nationalism ? Imagine how many people will want to join the military and contribute financially to the build of VN army (remember the riots with the Haiyang Shiyou 981 incident?). This is best scenario any army in the world want, an enthusiast youth ready contribute to the national defence… It a Pandora box with no one can predict, so let PLA attack

So you think after a PLA attack, China would end up with no political and economic sanctions? So let PLA attack



terranMarine said:


> The world knows the Yankees went back home by themselves, did not surrender to Vietcongs after killing you mofo for 20 years. You didn't defeat them and certainly not by yourself. Without China's aid and assistance the Yankees would have finished you guys sooner instead of fighting for 2 decades with no sight of ending. Vietnam would have been enslaved by the Yankees after the French/Japs.
> 
> As for defeating the French why don't you read this
> View attachment 424632
> 
> Without China's help you mofo couldn't do sh!t to the French. That's right you are nothing but ingrate.
> 
> China's first invasion was successful? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_domination_of_Vietnam (*4 domination* of Vietnam) FOUR FOOKING DOMINATIONS.
> 
> If Vietnam army was so strong it would not have ended up as French slaves. French had total occupation of Vietnam or are you denying it?
> 
> China had the biggest Naval force during the Ming for trade and discovery. The Naval force was cut in size and forgotten because the following Emperor moved the capital to the North dealing with the Mongels. The Ming Naval force didn't become weak all of a sudden. This however has nothing to do with PLA Navy of today. So which ASEAN is gonna challenge us in SCS? You wanna beg USA or Japan to save your a*s?



Viet Nam is the first nation in history to defeat military a colonial powerhouse, by doing so it trigger many other colonized countries to revolted and the rest is history. Yes China did help the Vietminh but you need a competent force to use it. A funny story I read in the Giap biography book (printed in the 60s before tensions with China), The PLA generals advised General Giap to do the human waves attack on Dien Bien Phu in 1954 and he refused to do so… General Giap instead ordered his troop to dig trenches to get close to the French positions and attack when they come close to few meters… VietNam will take the Chinese supplies anytime but never PLA military advises..LOL


Yes Viet Nam was ruled 1000 years by a huge empire (100 times it size) when Viet Nam was just a tiny newborn kingdom with tiny population and a tiny land and that was 1000 years ago, but most nations of today was conquered and ruled by other big empires back then, what is so unusual? Gosh get over this, you keep repeating it all the time but seriously I am proud that China ruled Vietnam for the first 1000 years, it made what Vn is today (learn from your master and then beat him up). Now the big question, how a huge empire can’t even swallow a tiny kingdom forever but managed instead to lost Viet Nam and get humiliated in multiples of military defeats by a tiny opponent?


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## terranMarine

warzone said:


> So far this year, China have threatened of war 3 countries (Philippines, Viet Nam and India) and the year 2017 is not over yet..LOL ! Average Joe like @terranMarine like to believe that China scare other nations to submission but reality is a lot differents . Behind close door, the negociations and deals are done in lot less threatening manner. China just want to win a war of face, coming out with her head up and making people believe it’s because of military threats. At the end of the day we are all go back to square uno, nothing change.


I'm sure this will make some good bed time story so you can sleep very well at night.



warzone said:


> Nobody said VN army is strong, I said a capable force with a rich military tradition.


capable army is not strong but weak? Interesting 



warzone said:


> *Viet Nam already receive modest military donations (US, Japan, ect) and other aids.* Now imagine short sighted @ that PLA attack Viet Nam on one of those rocks or whatever in SCS, don’t you think Viet Nam enjoy a lot more military donations, aids, credit lines, discount military equipments, ect? And do you think Viet Nam defence budget will get a nice boost too after the attack? After the Chinese attack, do you think the Vietnamese people are lack of nationalism ? Imagine how many people will want to join the military and contribute financially to the build of VN army (remember the riots with the Haiyang Shiyou 981 incident?). This is best scenario any army in the world want, an enthusiast youth ready contribute to the national defence… It a Pandora box with no one can predict, so let PLA attack
> 
> So you think after a PLA attack, China would end up with no political and economic sanctions? So let PLA attack


VN received AB destroyers (for free) ?  i'm starting to sweat now.
So if China and VN are waging war, your *massive population* will join the army to fight China? 
VN's defence budget will skyrocket too? 



warzone said:


> Yes Viet Nam was ruled 1000 years by a huge empire (100 times it size) when Viet Nam was just a tiny newborn kingdom with tiny population and a tiny land and that was 1000 years ago, but most nations of today was conquered and ruled by other big empires back then, what is so unusual? Gosh get over this, you keep repeating it all the time but seriously I am proud that China ruled Vietnam for the first 1000 years, it made what Vn is today (learn from *your master* and then beat him up). Now the big question, how a huge empire can’t even swallow a tiny kingdom forever but managed instead to lost Viet Nam and get humiliated in multiples of military defeats by a tiny opponent?


Always good to know our past tribute state still consider us as her master. The big question is how come after getting independence from China you guys became French slaves? Even more stunning is how your Ho Chi Min even begged his former master for help when Viets should have capable army, very nationalistic with skyrocketing defence budget.

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## enquencher

Last week visited vietnam .had a chance to visit the saigon war museum and cu chi tunnels.it was astonishing.will upload pics soon. UI
@Viet hats off to viets foe keeping history alive

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## warzone

terranMarine said:


> I'm sure this will make some good bed time story so you can sleep very well at night.
> 
> 
> capable army is not strong but weak? Interesting
> 
> 
> VN received AB destroyers (for free) ?  i'm starting to sweat now.
> So if China and VN are waging war, your *massive population* will join the army to fight China?
> VN's defence budget will skyrocket too?
> 
> 
> Always good to know our past tribute state still consider us as her master. The big question is how come after getting independence from China you guys became French slaves? Even more stunning is how your Ho Chi Min even begged his former master for help when Viets should have capable army, very nationalistic with skyrocketing defence budget.



Hey warmonger @terranMarine you are running out of gas and arguments? stop putting silly comments, put some interesting facts. By the way, did China got mangled and occupied by few nations not long ago, uh 72 years ago exactly and got saved by others nations…Can you imagine if Japan didn’t enter WW2, what will happen to China? Saved by the bell, luck never come twice

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## terranMarine

warzone said:


> Hey warmonger @terranMarine you are running out of gas and arguments? stop putting silly comments, put some interesting facts. By the way, did China got mangled and occupied by few nations not long ago, uh 72 years ago exactly and got saved by others nations…Can you imagine if Japan didn’t enter WW2, what will happen to China? Saved by the bell, luck never come twice



You and that Viet is so funny, when running out of arguments always diverting my questions. Nice try losers but it ain't gonna work. As for historical facts people can always grab some books and do some research on whether China was ever occupied. You do know what occupation means don't ya? As for WW2 we are not the kind of cowards as you monkeys. China was responsible for slaughtering 30-40% of Japanese forces, literally a large chunk was slashed off. But what did you supa stronk Viet monkeys do when Japs occupied VN? NOTHING


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> You and that Viet is so funny, when running out of arguments always diverting my questions. Nice try losers but it ain't gonna work. As for historical facts people can always grab some books and do some research on whether China was ever occupied. You do know what occupation means don't ya? As for WW2 we are not the kind of cowards as you monkeys. China was responsible for slaughtering 30-40% of Japanese forces, literally a large chunk was slashed off. But what did you supa stronk Viet monkeys do when Japs occupied VN? NOTHING


Monkey is a smart animal. Why should VN do anything against Japan? Considering the Japanese handed over the sovereignty from the French back to Vietnam. Plus maybe a part of China too as gift. As part of JP/VN treaty. Look, the US had not lifted a finger when the Japanese looted China but pushed Japan to a war when the Japanese attacked the French in Vietnam. You see the US considers Vietnam more important than China. Sorry you are too unimportant. Ok today the story is different. The yuan has some value I know.

Vietnamese emperor Bao Dai in Japanese army uniform

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## gambit

terranMarine said:


> You and that Viet is so funny, when running out of arguments always diverting my questions. Nice try losers but it ain't gonna work. As for historical facts people can always grab some books and do some research on whether China was ever occupied. You do know what occupation means don't ya? As for WW2 we are not the kind of cowards as you monkeys. China was responsible for slaughtering 30-40% of Japanese forces, literally a large chunk was slashed off. But what did you supa stronk Viet monkeys do when Japs occupied VN? NOTHING


The Vietnamese resistance groups worked with the OSS, that was how the US learned of Ho Chi Minh. So you are wrong about the Viets did nothing in WW II.

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## Viet

gambit said:


> The Vietnamese resistance groups worked with the OSS, that was how the US learned of Ho Chi Minh. So you are wrong about the Viets did nothing in WW II.


Various factions in VN cooperated with all major powers from America to Japan in WW 2 just Chinese trollers are too uneducated hence don't know. They brag about Chinese contribution but in reality it was the KMT troops that fought the Japanese while the PLA near to nothing.

Anyway Chinese contribution regardless KMT or PLA is almost non-existent in history books, kids only know the US as victor. the battles of Midway, Saipan or Philippines.

If even the major offensive of the Soviet Union against Japan in the Manchuria is forgotten, how can the people remember of any contribution of China?

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## frequency

Understanding Chinese Mindset








terranMarine said:


> You and that Viet is so funny, when running out of arguments always diverting my questions. Nice try losers but it ain't gonna work. As for historical facts people can always grab some books and do some research on whether China was ever occupied. You do know what occupation means don't ya? As for WW2 we are not the kind of cowards as you monkeys. China was responsible for slaughtering 30-40% of Japanese forces, literally a large chunk was slashed off. But what did you supa stronk Viet monkeys do when Japs occupied VN? NOTHING



terranMarine? or shall I call you terranMarine the cry baby? I see your insecurities written all over this forum and this website. Do Chinese Marines like you go on forums and harassing people? Does it make you feel special and superior? I bet it does. I laughs so hard at you and the Chinese army who go online and behave like a 10 years old thinking you own the world when in fact your country, China, is struggling to save face from centuries of humiliation. You call yourself a marine? Is that a joke? I don't think anyone is scared of you for behaving like a 10 years old all over the internet. You are humiliating yourself and the Chinese army which you don't even know. Your arrogance is so strong that it prevents you from thinking logically. You're a stupid fool.

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## Viet

Light tank DT17


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## terranMarine

frequency said:


> Understanding Chinese Mindset
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> terranMarine? or shall I call you terranMarine the cry baby? I see your insecurities written all over this forum and this website. Do Chinese Marines like you go on forums and harassing people? Does it make you feel special and superior? I bet it does. I laughs so hard at you and the Chinese army who go online and behave like a 10 years old thinking you own the world when in fact your country, China, is struggling to save face from centuries of humiliation. You call yourself a marine? Is that a joke? I don't think anyone is scared of you for behaving like a 10 years old all over the internet. You are humiliating yourself and the Chinese army which you don't even know. Your arrogance is so strong that it prevents you from thinking logically. You're a stupid fool.



Insecurity? Own the world? What the heck are you talking about?
Care to explain to us what i said showed China owns the world? As i have previously said whenever you guys cannot argue any longer you switch to other topics. Such pathetic tactic. Take it as a man and leave the discussion or better yet don't even start talking crap. The only sensible Viet here is old man Gambit, learn from him instead of constant bragging or distorting history all the time to proof Vietnamese superiority, now that's the definition of a stupid fool.


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## Viet

What a clown! Talking of sensibility when every sentence contains the monkey word. Ok whatever. What can't be changed should not be changed. congrats to Nguyễn Thị Ngoan. She makes history by winning the first place in free karate fighting in Germany in 61kg female category.

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## frequency

terranMarine said:


> Insecurity? Own the world? What the heck are you talking about?
> Care to explain to us what i said showed China owns the world? As i have previously said whenever you guys cannot argue any longer you switch to other topics. Such pathetic tactic. Take it as a man and leave the discussion or better yet don't even start talking crap. The only sensible Viet here is old man Gambit, learn from him instead of constant bragging or distorting history all the time to proof Vietnamese superiority, now that's the definition of a stupid fool.



How stupid can you be? You don't read your own comments? Are you that stupid? The reason why people don't even want to talk to you about anything is because you're too narrow-minded to even look at the subject in a different angle. You think your opinions are better and far more superior than anyone else just because you use WIKIPEDIA for information. You think Wikipedia is 100% accurate information. Only idiots think that way. Why the fk should someone waste their time talking to an idiot like you? You're too stubborn and forcing yourself to believe only in your point of views and reject anything else that doesn't fit your narrative. All you do is whine and complain about others when in fact you're the one who behave like a little brat. No one on the right mind is stupid enough to talk to you. Look at the negative ratings you are getting. It is an obvious sign that you're a fked up person. I could be sitting here, wasting my life and keep explaining myself to an idiot like you. Points given and now I'm going to move on.

There's a word that we used to name people like you. A *sociopath* is someone who exhibits an antisocial personality disorder, along with antisocial behaviours, little understanding of social norms, and lack of conscience.

Psychopath or Sociopath

Superficial charm and glibness.
Inflated sense of self-worth.
Constant need for stimulation.
Lying pathologically.
Conning others; being manipulative.
Lack of remorse or guilt.
Shallow emotions.
Callousness; lack of empathy.
Go see a Doctor.

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## TaiShang

*Vietnam always supports ASEAN-China cooperation: Deputy PM*

Last update: 14:34 | 12/09/2017

_As an active member of the ASEAN Community, Vietnam supports ASEAN-China cooperation, Deputy Prime Minister Truong Hoa Binh stressed at an event in Nanning, the capital of China’s Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, on September 12.
_
http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...orts-asean-china-cooperation--deputy-pm.html#


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## terranMarine

frequency said:


> How stupid can you be? You don't read your own comments? Are you that stupid? The reason why people don't even want to talk to you about anything is because you're too narrow-minded to even look at the subject in a different angle. You think your opinions are better and far more superior than anyone else just because you use WIKIPEDIA for information. You think Wikipedia is 100% accurate information. Only idiots think that way. Why the fk should someone waste their time talking to an idiot like you? You're too stubborn and forcing yourself to believe only in your point of views and reject anything else that doesn't fit your narrative. All you do is whine and complain about others when in fact you're the one who behave like a little brat. No one on the right mind is stupid enough to talk to you. Look at the negative ratings you are getting. It is an obvious sign that you're a fked up person. I could be sitting here, wasting my life and keep explaining myself to an idiot like you. Points given and now I'm going to move on.
> 
> There's a word that we used to name people like you. A *sociopath* is someone who exhibits an antisocial personality disorder, along with antisocial behaviours, little understanding of social norms, and lack of conscience.
> 
> Psychopath or Sociopath
> 
> Superficial charm and glibness.
> Inflated sense of self-worth.
> Constant need for stimulation.
> Lying pathologically.
> Conning others; being manipulative.
> Lack of remorse or guilt.
> Shallow emotions.
> Callousness; lack of empathy.
> Go see a Doctor.



I already have, and i'm cleared to go  , you still sitting in the basement waging propaganda and psychological warfare? Time to send a shrink your way so he can help you out of your troubled mind.

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> I already have, and i'm cleared to go  , you still sitting in the basement waging propaganda and psychological warfare? Time to send a shrink your way so he can help you out of your troubled mind.


Stop playing the innocent because you aren't, otherwise people believe Japan is a country full of young men being asexual, while China full of young men being retarded.


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## Viet

Members of General Staff on a visit to Havanna. Will be an interesting event to open the first VN military base in Cuba.











A new highway and a new bridge connects Quảng Ninh to China. The PLA now has more options should the Chinese run amok. Vietnam/China relationship is on a free fall.

















Army units on exercise. Not seen here, feared and respected by enemies since centuries, the legendary frogmen










Brazil’s FM Aloysio Nunes Ferreira on a visit to Vietnam. Both countries want to establish a permanent sea transport. There is a urgent need to develop a highsea naval fleet to protect commercial traffic at sea.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Will be an interesting event to open the first VN military base in Cuba.


Wow!! What an exciting plan!! Congratulations.


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## Viet

Image of woman at war







Women in the army































Phí Thị Ngọc Lan, the first ever RoK policewomen of Viet descent. Many may follow.

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## beijingwalker

In China women can be in combat units.

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## Viet

The picture shows the People's Committee Building in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. Photo: HKEJ

Home World International
*How Vietnam learned to live without Chinese characters *

Earlier, I posted on social media a few pictures of ancient Chinese characters that I took during my recent trip to Vietnam and some netizens were intrigued by them. Would the current state of international relations be different if Vietnam was still using Chinese characters today?

The use of Chinese characters by the Vietnamese people dates back to as early as the Eastern Han dynasty of ancient China (25 AD to 220 AD). For centuries, Chinese characters remained the official written language of ancient Vietnam and were widely used by its well-read intellectuals, who were deeply influenced by Confucianism.

At the same time, ancient Vietnam also adopted the same civil service examination system practiced by imperial China.

As a result, many ancient Vietnamese manuscripts were actually written in Chinese characters, and ancient Vietnamese intellectuals were just as familiar with Confucian classics as their counterparts in the Middle Kingdom.

In fact, the modern Vietnamese alphabet in use today has a relatively short history: it was “invented” by European missionaries in the 19th century through the Romanization of Chinese characters and was then promoted by the French colonial authorities.

Yet, the promotion of the newly invented alphabet by the French met with opposition from the Vietnamese social elites. And for that reason, throughout the late 1800s and the first half of the 20th century, Chinese characters declined in popularity among the younger generation,

*After* Ho Chi Minh took power, Chinese characters were used alongside the Vietnamese alphabet in the country. *However, he* immediately made a sweeping effort to ban Chinese characters and mandate the use of the Vietnamese alphabet in order to eliminate illiteracy across the nation as soon as possible and pave the way for economic development.

Compared to the complicated Chinese characters, the Vietnamese alphabet is a lot easier to pick up for the average individual. And Ho’s massive and concerted effort to eliminate illiteracy did pay off: in one month’s time, the vast majority of Vietnamese people became literate.

In fact Ho’s anti-illiteracy program was so successful that in 1987 the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) recommended commemorating him and his remarkable achievement in facilitating literacy in Vietnam.

However, apart from eliminating illiteracy, Ho actually had a more secret and personal agenda in banning Chinese characters and mandating the use of the Vietnamese alphabet across his country: even though Ho himself was deeply influenced by Chinese culture and spoke excellent Mandarin as well as Cantonese, he actually hated anything associated with China.

His grudge against China could have stemmed from his own unpleasant experience: during the 1930s, he was once held in custody by the Kuomintang authorities on the orders of Chiang Kai-shek and was badly tortured in jail, and hence his deep hatred of anything Chinese.

Besides, given that Vietnam had remained China’s vassal state “since ancient times”, Ho was determined to cast off the lingering influence of Chinese culture on his country by banning the use of Chinese characters, and help his countrymen reshape their sense of cultural and national identity, something that would prove instrumental in achieving Vietnam’s regional hegemony in the decades that followed.

Banning the use of Chinese characters among the Vietnamese people could also prevent China from building a “fifth column” in the country.

Moreover, the fact that Vietnam was finally having its own official language also helped put the country on an equal footing with China, as Beijing could no longer exert any cultural domination over Hanoi.

_This article appeared in the Hong Kong Economic Journal on Sep 13_


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## Viet

Two important events

Senior VCP members travel to Washington for a meeting with US national security council, a body that makes decision between peace and war, chaired by US president. I think a deal can be made if the US provides security to Vietnam, while we assist the US to retain the dominant power in the Western Pacific. Win win for everybody.







Also a senior VCP member welcomes Japanese Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry Hiroshige Seko to Hanoi. Vietnam seeks a close economic alliance with Japan, similar VN with RoK. Besides TPP is still a hot topic. Japan wants to see it to happen, and wants to lead the pact. Actually not a problem, however the Japanese have to put an attractive offer on the table.


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## Viet

VN military buildup is at snail pace, no wonder somebody feels encouraged to advance aggression.

Russia made guided missile frigate Gepard class loaded on a transport vessel on route to Vietnam


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## Viet

Launch of 700 ton off shore rescue vessel, 25 knots, manufactured by Ba Son shipyard









The vessel can apparently carry a small heli.

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## Viet

Two more pics from the rescue vessel

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## Viet

Hanoi, Vietnam, August 2017

Members of US Marines and US national guard (Oregon) to a visit to train Vietnamese staff in case of ABC attacks. That should remain a training though, unimaginable our enemies resort to the last means.

“We hope we never actually have to respond to these types of threats, but it’s our mission to train for it, and events like this show aggressors that we have the ability to respond,” said Oregon Air National Guard Lt. Col. Oliver Wisco, commander, medical group, CERFP Detachment 1. “This is expertise that we at the Oregon National Guard have and can share with other services and our state partners.”

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## Viet

Medical staff of US Pacific Command stationed in Japan coming for a visit

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## Viet

For one who is interested of. San Jose and Houston are two US cities with most Viet population in America, with all infrastructure from shopping centers to Vietnamese speaking radio/tv stations.






Recently a man with little money from local Viet community makes headlines by donating $10m to San Jose and Houston for disaster recovery efforts: Kieu Hoang. He is founder of many companies including blood plasma California based RAAS and Shanghai RAAS, with net worth some $3.8b.

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## Viet

more professionalism thanks friends and partners. VN field military hospital cat 2.
















































the legendary revolutionary Cuba army, similar to legendary Vietnamese army, is suffering under lacks of money and modern equippments only the fighting spirit is high.
























Only few in Vietnam want to remember of the Vietnam war, lesser want to talk about it, but in America there are endless debates, books, movie films, memorial day and documentations about the US involvement in the bitter war. the New York Times brings lots stories about the war. will Ken Burns’s new 10-part documentary series about the Vietnam war be different?






Captured U.S. pilot major Dewey Waddell is guarded by a militiawoman with a gun and a bayonet on a rice field. Vietnam, 1967. ullstein bild via Getty Images


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## cnleio

Viet said:


> Image of woman at war


A China type56 rifle serving in VN Army (only China AK has the special three edge needle) ... since 1960s China support Vietnam War, 50-year-age rifle ?

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## xiao qi

cnleio said:


> A China type56 rifle serving in VN Army (only China AK has the special three edge needle) ... since 1960s China support Vietnam War, 50-year-age rifle ?


This used for training purposes, these women are student from uni or college, I remember I was introduced how to use AK and CKC.


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## cnleio

xiao qi said:


> This used for training purposes, these women are student from uni or college, I remember I was introduced how to use AK and CKC.


I see two female soldiers have the military rank on their collars, not like student military training ... u remember me first month in China university joined PLA miltiary training, that time each student has 5x bullets to shoot type56 semi-automatic rifle even not AK.

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## xiao qi

cnleio said:


> I see two female soldiers have the military rank on their collars, not like student military training ... u remember me first month in China university joined PLA miltiary training, that time each student has 5x bullets to shoot type56 semi-automatic rifle even not AK.
> 
> View attachment 426027


Ok, my error, the girl in this pic likely are militia, i don't realize because some my friend use this uniform same as this pic, ex :








In Vietnam we only get two or three bullets for all training process and use real bullets under the supervision, we have two training process, in high school and in university and it is obligatory for all students.

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## TaiShang

*
Procuracies of Vietnam-China border provinces foster cooperation*

_The first meeting of the people’s procuracies of Vietnam-China border provinces opened on September 17 in Nanning, the capital city of China’s Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region._


_



_

_The leaders of the Vietnamese and Chinese supreme procuracies exchange the signed MoU on strengthening direct cooperation between the border provinces’ procuracies_

The event was attended by Peng Qinghua, Secretary of the Party Committee of the Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region and Chairman of the Standing Committee of the regional People’s Congress, along with officials from the People’s Procuracies of Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Da Nang city and seven other Vietnamese provinces bordering China, namely Dien Bien, Lai Chau, Lao Cai, Ha Giang, Cao Bang, Lang Son, and Quang Ninh.

*In his opening remarks, Procurator-General of the Supreme People’s Procuratorate of China Cao Jianming noted that China and Vietnam boast the long-standing friendship and relations between the two supreme people’s procuracies have been strengthened through mutual visits, exchanges and experience sharing.*

In April, the heads of the two supreme people’s procuracies signed a comprehensive memorandum of understanding (MoU) on mutual judicial assistance in criminal matters, removing obstacles in the field and facilitating the implementation of the treaty on mutual judicial assistance in civil and criminal matters, inked between China and Vietnam in 1988, and the supreme procuracies’ cooperation agreement signed in 2012, he said.

The MoU was also a foundation to improve cooperation between the procuracies of Vietnamese and Chinese border provinces, Cao added.

Prosecutor-General of the Supreme People’s Procuracy of Vietnam Le Minh Tri said procuracy-to-procuracy relations have continually been growing and achieved numerous positive outcomes.

Under the direction of the supreme procuracies, local procuracies, especially those of the border provinces, have carried out a number of cooperation activities. Six provincial procuracies of Vietnam have signed MoUs with four Chinese counterparts, including the MoUs between Cao Bang, Lang Son and Quang Ninh provinces and Guangxi, between Lao Cai province and Yunnan, between HCM City and Guangdong, and between Da Nang city and Shandong.

The cooperation has also been expanded to the district level such as between the procuracy of Lao Cai province and the procuracy of Yunnan’s Hekou county, Tri said, adding that the two sides have organised mutual visits, shared experience, held regular meetings on cooperation in crime prevention and control, and cooperation in personnel training.

The Vietnamese official asked the two supreme people’s procuracies to well implement the signed agreements and continue instructing local procuracies to seriously and effectively carry out the MoU signed last April and the other on enhanced direct cooperation between procuracies of Vietnam-China border provinces inked at this meeting.

The local procuracies of the border provinces also need to step up direct cooperation in mutual judicial assistance in criminal matters, he added.

At the meeting, the supreme procuracies’ leaders signed a MoU on strengthening direct cooperation between the border provinces’ procuracies.

On September 16, Chinese Procurator-General Cao Jianming hosted a reception for the delegation of the Supreme People’s Procuracy of Vietnam.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/go...hina-border-provinces-foster-cooperation.html

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## xiao qi

Vietnam war series are being broadcast on American Television.
*‘The Vietnam War’ Review: Ken Burns’ Exhaustive Conflict Biography Shows How to Learn from History’s Errors*
Episode 1 : Déjà Vu (1858-1961) - Vietnamese
http://www.pbs.org/video/deja-vu-1858-1961-vietnamese-yhieqx/
Episode 2 :  Riding the Tiger (1961-1963) - Vietnamese
http://www.pbs.org/video/the-river-styx-january-1964-december-1965-vietnamese-ee4jlh/
Episode 3: The River Styx (January 1964-December 1965) - Vietnamese
http://www.pbs.org/video/the-river-styx-january-1964-december-1965-vietnamese-ee4jlh/
Episode 4: Resolve (January 1966-June 1967) - Vietnamese
http://www.pbs.org/video/resolve-january-1966-june-1967-vietnamese-wg7u0k/
Episode 5: This Is What We Do (July 1967-December 1967) - Vietnamese
http://www.pbs.org/video/this-is-what-we-do-july-1967-december-1967-vietnamese-rvbgea/

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## Viet

cnleio said:


> A China type56 rifle serving in VN Army (only China AK has the special three edge needle) ... since 1960s China support Vietnam War, 50-year-age rifle ?


Judging the uniform the girls wear they are from local militias. The rifle is for training purposes probably is seldom used for shooting.



beijingwalker said:


> In China women can be in combat units.


VN Women in the army have long tradition going back for thousands of years. I don't think Chinese women have similar tradition.

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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> I don't think Chinese women have similar tradition.


Learn some history, that's no harmful to you.

Fu Hao (妇好, or Lady Hao), wife of King Wu Ding (武丁, whose reign lasted from approximately 1250 BC –1192 BC) of the Shang Dynasty. Fu Hao not only serves the roles as wife/mother/queen, she is also an important military general to her husband, and joined multiple battles against neighboring tribes.

For example, a relevant message found from the oracle bone scripts (甲骨文): 辛未卜，争贞：妇好其比沚瞂伐印方，王自东亳伐，陷于妇好立。

A rough translation is: "the King requested Fu Hao and Zhi Fa (沚瞂) to co-lead the army to attack Yin Tribe (印方); the King himself will lead another army to attack Yin from the east side, and push the enemy to the ambush location of Fu Hao's army". This is the first text record in the world military history that a female takes the leader role of an army; and also the first record of ambush.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An introduction of Fu Hao and her tomb

Fu Hao is a very unusual heroine from Ancient Chinese history. She was one of the consorts of Wu Ding, the Shang King under whom Shang power reached its zenith. Fu Hao was a wife and mother, military leader, politician and shaman.

Fu Hao’s tomb was discovered in 1976 near Anyang. It is one of the best preserved tombs from that era. Archaeologists easily identified it as the tomb of Fu Hao. Her name had been long known from Shang period oracle texts and they found her name inscribed on the ritual bronzes on the tomb.

Most of the information we have about Fu Hao comes from oracle bone inscriptions. Many of the oracle bones show concerns for her well-being, for example childbirth and illness. Inscriptions on the oracle bones also show that Fu Hao was involved in two aspects of royal life that were normally not open to women. She participated in ritual ceremonies and military activities. The Shang King exercised ultimate control over ritual matters. However, Fu Hao obviously enjoyed the confidence of her husband as he repeatedly instructed her to conduct special rituals and offer sacrifices.

She led numerous military campaigns against the neighbouring Tu, Ba, Yin and Qiang tribes. One oracle bone, for example, asks whether Fu Hao should gather soldiers before an attack. On another it is reported that the king had assembled soldiers for Fu Hao’s campaign against the Tu tribe.

Fu Hao’s tomb has yielded over a hundred weapons. This is very unusual for a woman’s tomb, and shows her status as a military leader. In all there were around 2000 items buried with Fu Hao. Among these there are 468 bronzes, 750 jades, 560 of bone and over 110 of stone and semi-precious stone. Over six thousand cowrie shells were buried with her also – these would have served as currency in the Shang period.

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## TaiShang

*Vietnam always treasures ties with China: Party chief*

VNA MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2017 - 20:32:00



Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong (R) and member of the Chinese Politburo Standing Committee Liu Yunshan (Source: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* – Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong has assured Liu Yunshan, Politburo Standing Committee member and Secretary of the Secretariat of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee that Vietnam attaches special importance to ties with China. 

During a reception in Hanoi on September 18, *the Party leader expressed his wish that the Vietnam-China relations will develop healthily and steadily for the interests of the two countries’ people as well as for peace and development in the region and the world. *

Hailing positive development of ties between the two Parties and countries over the past years, he underscored the *significance of the exchange of theory and experience in socio-economic development, Party building and personnel training. *

He wished that the CPC led by Xi Jinping will successfully organise its 19th National Congress. 

Liu, who is in Vietnam from September 18-19, expressed his belief that *under the leadership of the Communist Party of Vietnam led by General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, the Vietnamese people will continue reaping greater successes in the national reform and socialism building. *

He affirmed that the Party and State of China attach importance to developing the traditional friendship and cooperation between the two Parties and countries. 

The guest wished to work closely with Vietnam to prepare for the Party General Secretary and President of China’s official visit to Vietnam and his attendance at the APEC Economic Leaders’ Meeting in November, the first foreign trip made by the Chinese leader following the 19th CPC National Congress. 

The same day, Politburo member Tran Quoc Vuong, Secretary of the CPV Central Committee and head of the Committee’s Inspection Commission held talks with the Chinese guest. 

The two sides extensively discussed measures to fully and effectively implement common perceptions and agreements between leaders of the two Parties and countries, contributing to strengthening political trust and friendship, improving the efficiency of practical collaboration in diverse areas, maintaining peace and security, and properly settling the East Sea issue.-VNA

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## jhungary

xiao qi said:


> Ok, my error, the girl in this pic likely are militia, i don't realize because some my friend use this uniform same as this pic, ex :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 426039
> 
> In Vietnam we only get two or three bullets for all training process and use real bullets under the supervision, we have two training process, in high school and in university and it is obligatory for all students.



College Firearm training for 2 or 3 rounds??.....What for??

We used to have ROTC open day where student are encourage to fire any sort of weapon your local ROTC have in your college. We have Squad Automatic Weapon, Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Heavy Machine Gun.....






What you can do with 2 or 3 rounds actually??


----------



## Aqsuperman

jhungary said:


> College Firearm training for 2 or 3 rounds??.....What for??
> 
> We used to have ROTC open day where student are encourage to fire any sort of weapon your local ROTC have in your college. We have Squad Automatic Weapon, Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Heavy Machine Gun.....
> 
> View attachment 426353
> 
> 
> What you can do with 2 or 3 rounds actually??



The idea is to give the student a feel of firearms, not to turn them into sharpshooter. Some recoil kicks and smells of gunpowder will do for now. If you want to shoot more, go and apply to the Military Academy. However, with our conscription sevice, ALL males between 18 and 26 will have the chance to shoot as many rounds as they want in the Army 

Gepard No. 486 spotted near Istanbul, Turkey. Look like the VPN haven't put a name on this guy yet.

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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> *Procuracies of Vietnam-China border provinces foster cooperation*
> 
> _The first meeting of the people’s procuracies of Vietnam-China border provinces opened on September 17 in Nanning, the capital city of China’s Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region._
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _The leaders of the Vietnamese and Chinese supreme procuracies exchange the signed MoU on strengthening direct cooperation between the border provinces’ procuracies_
> 
> The event was attended by Peng Qinghua, Secretary of the Party Committee of the Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region and Chairman of the Standing Committee of the regional People’s Congress, along with officials from the People’s Procuracies of Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Da Nang city and seven other Vietnamese provinces bordering China, namely Dien Bien, Lai Chau, Lao Cai, Ha Giang, Cao Bang, Lang Son, and Quang Ninh.
> 
> *In his opening remarks, Procurator-General of the Supreme People’s Procuratorate of China Cao Jianming noted that China and Vietnam boast the long-standing friendship and relations between the two supreme people’s procuracies have been strengthened through mutual visits, exchanges and experience sharing.*
> 
> In April, the heads of the two supreme people’s procuracies signed a comprehensive memorandum of understanding (MoU) on mutual judicial assistance in criminal matters, removing obstacles in the field and facilitating the implementation of the treaty on mutual judicial assistance in civil and criminal matters, inked between China and Vietnam in 1988, and the supreme procuracies’ cooperation agreement signed in 2012, he said.
> 
> The MoU was also a foundation to improve cooperation between the procuracies of Vietnamese and Chinese border provinces, Cao added.
> 
> Prosecutor-General of the Supreme People’s Procuracy of Vietnam Le Minh Tri said procuracy-to-procuracy relations have continually been growing and achieved numerous positive outcomes.
> 
> Under the direction of the supreme procuracies, local procuracies, especially those of the border provinces, have carried out a number of cooperation activities. Six provincial procuracies of Vietnam have signed MoUs with four Chinese counterparts, including the MoUs between Cao Bang, Lang Son and Quang Ninh provinces and Guangxi, between Lao Cai province and Yunnan, between HCM City and Guangdong, and between Da Nang city and Shandong.
> 
> The cooperation has also been expanded to the district level such as between the procuracy of Lao Cai province and the procuracy of Yunnan’s Hekou county, Tri said, adding that the two sides have organised mutual visits, shared experience, held regular meetings on cooperation in crime prevention and control, and cooperation in personnel training.
> 
> The Vietnamese official asked the two supreme people’s procuracies to well implement the signed agreements and continue instructing local procuracies to seriously and effectively carry out the MoU signed last April and the other on enhanced direct cooperation between procuracies of Vietnam-China border provinces inked at this meeting.
> 
> The local procuracies of the border provinces also need to step up direct cooperation in mutual judicial assistance in criminal matters, he added.
> 
> At the meeting, the supreme procuracies’ leaders signed a MoU on strengthening direct cooperation between the border provinces’ procuracies.
> 
> On September 16, Chinese Procurator-General Cao Jianming hosted a reception for the delegation of the Supreme People’s Procuracy of Vietnam.
> 
> http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/go...hina-border-provinces-foster-cooperation.html


We all know how of these agreements go. Null. Good for the trash bin. Much similar to the earth shaking agreement of cooperation between two countries Red Cross when VN communist chief meets CN communist chief not long ago. No offense.

Has anyone seen any encounter between the Red Crosses? If yes pls give me a call.


----------



## DarkMoon198

GS Zhou said:


> Learn some history, that's no harmful to you.
> 
> Fu Hao (妇好, or Lady Hao), wife of King Wu Ding (武丁, whose reign lasted from approximately 1250 BC –1192 BC) of the Shang Dynasty. Fu Hao not only serves the roles as wife/mother/queen, she is also an important military general to her husband, and joined multiple battles against neighboring tribes.
> 
> For example, a relevant message found from the oracle bone scripts (甲骨文): 辛未卜，争贞：妇好其比沚瞂伐印方，王自东亳伐，陷于妇好立。
> 
> A rough translation is: "the King requested Fu Hao and Zhi Fa (沚瞂) to co-lead the army to attack Yin Tribe (印方); the King himself will lead another army to attack Yin from the east side, and push the enemy to the ambush location of Fu Hao's army". This is the first text record in the world military history that a female takes the leader role of an army; and also the first record of ambush.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> An introduction of Fu Hao and her tomb
> 
> Fu Hao is a very unusual heroine from Ancient Chinese history. She was one of the consorts of Wu Ding, the Shang King under whom Shang power reached its zenith. Fu Hao was a wife and mother, military leader, politician and shaman.
> 
> Fu Hao’s tomb was discovered in 1976 near Anyang. It is one of the best preserved tombs from that era. Archaeologists easily identified it as the tomb of Fu Hao. Her name had been long known from Shang period oracle texts and they found her name inscribed on the ritual bronzes on the tomb.
> 
> Most of the information we have about Fu Hao comes from oracle bone inscriptions. Many of the oracle bones show concerns for her well-being, for example childbirth and illness. Inscriptions on the oracle bones also show that Fu Hao was involved in two aspects of royal life that were normally not open to women. She participated in ritual ceremonies and military activities. The Shang King exercised ultimate control over ritual matters. However, Fu Hao obviously enjoyed the confidence of her husband as he repeatedly instructed her to conduct special rituals and offer sacrifices.
> 
> She led numerous military campaigns against the neighbouring Tu, Ba, Yin and Qiang tribes. One oracle bone, for example, asks whether Fu Hao should gather soldiers before an attack. On another it is reported that the king had assembled soldiers for Fu Hao’s campaign against the Tu tribe.
> 
> Fu Hao’s tomb has yielded over a hundred weapons. This is very unusual for a woman’s tomb, and shows her status as a military leader. In all there were around 2000 items buried with Fu Hao. Among these there are 468 bronzes, 750 jades, 560 of bone and over 110 of stone and semi-precious stone. Over six thousand cowrie shells were buried with her also – these would have served as currency in the Shang period.



I think Viet also want to refer to it in the matrilineality aspect in the tradition sense as he mention above

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## xiao qi

jhungary said:


> College Firearm training for 2 or 3 rounds??.....What for??
> 
> We used to have ROTC open day where student are encourage to fire any sort of weapon your local ROTC have in your college. We have Squad Automatic Weapon, Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Heavy Machine Gun.....
> 
> View attachment 426353
> 
> 
> What you can do with 2 or 3 rounds actually??


For training to become a true soldier, the important thing It is how to teach them to obey and do any request without asking under all conditions. In high school, we were taught how to listen not how to fire a weapon. And this thing was improved in university. It is this time, we actually know how to fire. 


Viet said:


> We all know how of these agreements go. Null. Good for the trash bin. Much similar to the earth shaking agreement of cooperation between two countries Red Cross when VN communist chief meets CN communist chief not long ago. No offense.
> 
> Has anyone seen any encounter between the Red Crosses? If yes pls give me a call.


@Viet, I think You should see China in another aspect. Well, in fact, we are getting benefit from the development of China, We hate the Chinese for the aggression in SCS. but I think It is acceptable same as a big boy, sometimes I chat with Vietnamese people online, a lot of them said, ok, ok, put Vietnam in China's location, the pinoy, malay...etc let's pray. Frankly, Vietnam already did well in the relation with China. As a small nation, we almost didn't lose territories to China. Bach Long Vy island now is a debate in China, why it was ceded to Vietnam. 


GS Zhou said:


> Learn some history, that's no harmful to you.
> 
> Fu Hao (妇好, or Lady Hao), wife of King Wu Ding (武丁, whose reign lasted from approximately 1250 BC –1192 BC) of the Shang Dynasty. Fu Hao not only serves the roles as wife/mother/queen, she is also an important military general to her husband, and joined multiple battles against neighboring tribes.
> 
> For example, a relevant message found from the oracle bone scripts (甲骨文): 辛未卜，争贞：妇好其比沚瞂伐印方，王自东亳伐，陷于妇好立。
> 
> A rough translation is: "the King requested Fu Hao and Zhi Fa (沚瞂) to co-lead the army to attack Yin Tribe (印方); the King himself will lead another army to attack Yin from the east side, and push the enemy to the ambush location of Fu Hao's army". This is the first text record in the world military history that a female takes the leader role of an army; and also the first record of ambush.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> An introduction of Fu Hao and her tomb
> 
> Fu Hao is a very unusual heroine from Ancient Chinese history. She was one of the consorts of Wu Ding, the Shang King under whom Shang power reached its zenith. Fu Hao was a wife and mother, military leader, politician and shaman.
> 
> Fu Hao’s tomb was discovered in 1976 near Anyang. It is one of the best preserved tombs from that era. Archaeologists easily identified it as the tomb of Fu Hao. Her name had been long known from Shang period oracle texts and they found her name inscribed on the ritual bronzes on the tomb.
> 
> Most of the information we have about Fu Hao comes from oracle bone inscriptions. Many of the oracle bones show concerns for her well-being, for example childbirth and illness. Inscriptions on the oracle bones also show that Fu Hao was involved in two aspects of royal life that were normally not open to women. She participated in ritual ceremonies and military activities. The Shang King exercised ultimate control over ritual matters. However, Fu Hao obviously enjoyed the confidence of her husband as he repeatedly instructed her to conduct special rituals and offer sacrifices.
> 
> She led numerous military campaigns against the neighbouring Tu, Ba, Yin and Qiang tribes. One oracle bone, for example, asks whether Fu Hao should gather soldiers before an attack. On another it is reported that the king had assembled soldiers for Fu Hao’s campaign against the Tu tribe.
> 
> Fu Hao’s tomb has yielded over a hundred weapons. This is very unusual for a woman’s tomb, and shows her status as a military leader. In all there were around 2000 items buried with Fu Hao. Among these there are 468 bronzes, 750 jades, 560 of bone and over 110 of stone and semi-precious stone. Over six thousand cowrie shells were buried with her also – these would have served as currency in the Shang period.


I think you forget to mention to https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/花木兰 In Vietnam, we dont know Fu Hao, but we know this girl. In fact, Chinese and Vietnamese have many similarities about history and culture, but Vietnamese use women for real combat is more popular than because the Chinese population is big and they have enough men for combat don't need women for this dangerous mission, for Vietnam, It is different.

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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> We all know how of these agreements go. Null. Good for the trash bin. Much similar to the earth shaking agreement of cooperation between two countries Red Cross when VN communist chief meets CN communist chief not long ago. No offense.
> 
> Has anyone seen any encounter between the Red Crosses? If yes pls give me a call.



Party to party communication has always a subtle meaning and value. But you do not expect a result in the line of a communication between a superior and an inferior -- such as US talking to Spain.

***

*Government, parliament leaders welcome China’s senior Party official*

VNA TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2017




Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc (R) welcomes Liu Yunshan, Secretary of the Secretariat of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, on September 19 (Photo: VNA)

*Hanoi (VNA)* – Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and National Assembly (NA) Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan hailed the progress in Vietnam-China cooperation while receiving Liu Yunshan, Secretary of the Secretariat of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, on September 19.

Talking to Liu, who is also a member of China’s Politburo Standing Committee, PM Phuc reiterated that the Vietnamese Party, State and people always attach importance to the traditional friendship and comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership with China.

He applauded recent substantive cooperation, especially in investment, trade and tourism, along with China’s expansion of import of Vietnam’s goods and agricultural products.

He asked both sides to promote cooperation mechanisms’ effectiveness, improve substantive cooperation in all fields, work harder to tackle existing problems in bilateral ties, while accelerating and bettering the quality of joint projects. They also need to make concerted efforts to maintain peace and stability in the East Sea, comply with the common perceptions shared between leaders of the two Parties and countries, avoid any actions that may escalate tensions, and join ASEAN countries to substantively negotiate a code of conduct of parties in the East Sea (COC).

*[Vietnam always treasures ties with China: Party chief]*

Secretary Liu also stressed that the Chinese Party and State treasure relations with the Vietnamese counterparts and want to join Vietnam in lifting the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership to a new height.

Bilateral cooperation, particularly in economy and trade, is flourishing, he said, noting that China supports the healthy and balanced development of economic and trade ties. It also hopes for the continued enhancement of connecting the two countries’ development strategies.




NA Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan receives Liu Yunshan, Secretary of the Secretariat of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, on September 19 (Photo: VNA)

At another meeting in Hanoi, NA Chairwoman Ngan congratulated China’s recent major achievements, valuing the encouraging outcomes in bilateral ties in various fields, including the relationship between the NA of Vietnam and the National People’s Congress of China.

She also asked both sides to fully and seriously implement and agreements and common perceptions reached by leaders of the two Parties and countries. They should also further consolidate the social foundation and friendship between the two peoples, thus developing Vietnam-China relations in a healthy, stable and long-term manner.

Meanwhile, the Chinese official expressed his hope for stronger political trust, sharing of strategies, cooperation and friendship exchanges, thereby fostering connections between the Parties and the countries. He also voiced his support for more exchanges between the two parliaments and peoples.-VNA

http://en.vietnamplus.vn/government...lcome-chinas-senior-party-official/118107.vnp


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## jhungary

Aqsuperman said:


> The idea is to give the student a feel of firearms, not to turn them into sharpshooter. Some recoil kicks and smells of gunpowder will do for now. If you want to shoot more, go and apply to the Military Academy. However, with our conscription sevice, ALL males between 18 and 26 will have the chance to shoot as many rounds as they want in the Army



Probably gun culture is different. 

In the US, we have shooting courses with everything, the youngest shooting and marksman course you can do is Boy/Girl Scout of America Marksmanship Training. which start from 13 to 14 years old (8th Grade above) and they will give you Pistol and Rifle training in any NRA range.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/430-607(16)_WEB.pdf

Then there are regional organisation that offer weapon training such as FFA (Future Farmer of America) which hold sport shooting event, FFA is exclusively for High School student in the US (so 14-18) 

But gun range in the US usually do not have an age limit on weapon handling so there are tons of kids holding a rifle or even machine gun photo surfaced on the internet.






Once you joined the Military, depends on your MOS, you will fire about 2000-10,000 rounds during the first 9- 13 weeks training, then afterward, you can shoot whenever or wherever you want. But you can only fire weapon that you are qualify to operate.

In all, training or not, bullet is about 20 cents per, so, you can basically shoot anywhere and everywhere as long as you can pay for it. Military Training or Not.



xiao qi said:


> For training to become a true soldier, the important thing It is how to teach them to obey and do any request without asking under all conditions. In high school, we were taught how to listen not how to fire a weapon. And this thing was improved in university. It is this time, we actually know how to fire.



Well, I guess this is about different gun culture, but I still don't understand what is the reason or even what's the point for firing only 2 to 3 rounds in training. I mean yeah you will probably feel the kicks of the weapon, but you will most likely forgot about that when you are doing the real training...

Should have been at least a whole mag....


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## Nike

jhungary said:


> Probably gun culture is different.
> 
> In the US, we have shooting courses with everything, the youngest shooting and marksman course you can do is Boy/Girl Scout of America Marksmanship Training. which start from 13 to 14 years old (8th Grade above) and they will give you Pistol and Rifle training in any NRA range.
> 
> http://www.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/430-607(16)_WEB.pdf
> 
> Then there are regional organisation that offer weapon training such as FFA (Future Farmer of America) which hold sport shooting event, FFA is exclusively for High School student in the US (so 14-18)
> 
> But gun range in the US usually do not have an age limit on weapon handling so there are tons of kids holding a rifle or even machine gun photo surfaced on the internet.
> 
> View attachment 426528
> 
> 
> Once you joined the Military, depends on your MOS, you will fire about 2000-10,000 rounds during the first 9- 13 weeks training, then afterward, you can shoot whenever or wherever you want. But you can only fire weapon that you are qualify to operate.
> 
> In all, training or not, bullet is about 20 cents per, so, you can basically shoot anywhere and everywhere as long as you can pay for it. Military Training or Not.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess this is about different gun culture, but I still don't understand what is the reason or even what's the point for firing only 2 to 3 rounds in training. I mean yeah you will probably feel the kicks of the weapon, but you will most likely forgot about that when you are doing the real training...
> 
> Should have been at least a whole mag....



Well i have the same thought, it useless to give some basic training just to be forgotten next year or years later, why bother in first place. Boyscout or Girl scout in my country regularly training with firearms, so they can be part of reserve unit in future or Emergency cases

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## jhungary

madokafc said:


> Well i have the same thought, it useless to give some basic training just to be forgotten next year or years later, why bother in first place. Boyscout or Girl scout in my country regularly training with firearms, so they can be part of reserve unit in future or Emergency cases
> 
> View attachment 426533
> 
> View attachment 426534



Well, there are people like in the UK when the cadet was trained with de-milled weapon, just to go on a manoeuvre or demonstrate what the parts are and where bullet come out. That is totally fine even tho if you would forget about that the next year.

but shoot a few round is not really make sense and that is why I don't understand, I mean it's their country and their program but they should have known by now it's pointless or even useless to just let off a few round other than having fun.


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> @Viet, I think You should see China in another aspect. Well, in fact, we are getting benefit from the development of China, We hate the Chinese for the aggression in SCS. but I think It is acceptable same as a big boy, sometimes I chat with Vietnamese people online, a lot of them said, ok, ok, put Vietnam in China's location, the pinoy, malay...etc let's pray. Frankly, Vietnam already did well in the relation with China. As a small nation, we almost didn't lose territories to China. Bach Long Vy island now is a debate in China, why it was ceded to Vietnam.
> 
> I think you forget to mention to https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/花木兰 In Vietnam, we dont know Fu Hao, but we know this girl. In fact, Chinese and Vietnamese have many similarities about history and culture, but Vietnamese use women for real combat is more popular than because the Chinese population is big and they have enough men for combat don't need women for this dangerous mission, for Vietnam, It is different.


The island lies within the Vietnamese left half, so it belongs to VN, the Chinese get all the other in the right half. Tonkin agreement.

Benefiting from China is a big word. We would benefit if VN/CN relationship improves from the current 1/100 to 1/10 of CN/Pakistan level. I don't believe we would ever achieve 100, but 10 is a very good base.

East Asia would be a better place if we lead the wolfs pack. Look at the disaster the Japanese created in the past and the Chinese create now. Either we all head to a great future or end up in nuclear blasts.

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## AViet

Viet said:


> The island lies within the Vietnamese left half, so it belongs to VN, the Chinese get all the other in the right half. Tonkin agreement.
> 
> Benefiting from China is a big word. We would benefit if VN/CN relationship improves from the current 1/100 to 1/10 of CN/Pakistan level. I don't believe we would ever achieve 100, but 10 is a very good base.
> 
> East Asia would be a better place if we lead the wolfs pack. Look at the disaster the Japanese created in the past and the Chinese create now. Either we all head to a great future or end up in nuclear blasts.



Clearly that you look at China-Vietnam relationship from Western (german) point of view. Vietnamese do not see it that way.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Clearly that you look at China-Vietnam relationship from Western (german) point of view. Vietnamese do not see it that way.


Looking from Germany or from Denmark makes no difference. If VN/CN relationship is good, we would still speak and write in Chinese. Apart from the short period of cooperation during the VN war, when do we see a close cooperation between the two nations?

Oh let's me check: was that during the Ming, when the Chinese recruited combat hardened Vietnamese skilled in firearm for their military campaign against the northern barbarians? Long ago, isn't it?

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## Viet

That's interesting. Small but important improvement for T54 tanks. First pic without rubber second pic with rubber on tank tracks.










Like a small Korean invasion: two RoK warships led by destroyer Kang Gam Chan with 633 sailors aboard make port call.
















Smart Koreans. Their efforts to lure Vietnamese tourists pay off. While the number of Chinese tourists to RoK is in freefall, the number of Vietnamese is on the rise. Should the trend continue S Korea will see 500,000 Vietnamese tourists by 2018. the Koreans offer free gifts, free ads. How about free visa?

No joke: RoK tourist companies offer winter sports to tropical people from VN.

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## Viet

Not today but tomorrow. Vietnam military industrial complex should be strengthened in the years to come so it can export weapons so the government chief Nguyễn Xuân Phúc.

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## Viet

that will be wonderful places to launch missiles


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## Reashot Xigwin

jhungary said:


> Well, there are people like in the UK when the cadet was trained with de-milled weapon, just to go on a manoeuvre or demonstrate what the parts are and where bullet come out. That is totally fine even tho if you would forget about that the next year.
> 
> but shoot a few round is not really make sense and that is why I don't understand, I mean it's their country and their program but they should have known by now it's pointless or even useless to just let off a few round other than having fun.


I have theories about that:

1. I think its a logistical issue because Vietnam have mandatory services & probably don't want to take reserves ammo from their regulars.

2. What doesn't make sense military wise, make sense government wise (& vice versa.) Some government official probably have it in their bright idea to use minimum resources to train someone so they can bulge the numbers of soldiers trained on paper.

3. Corruption probably?...


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## xiao qi

jhungary said:


> Well, there are people like in the UK when the cadet was trained with de-milled weapon, just to go on a manoeuvre or demonstrate what the parts are and where bullet come out. That is totally fine even tho if you would forget about that the next year.
> 
> but shoot a few round is not really make sense and that is why I don't understand, I mean it's their country and their program but they should have known by now it's pointless or even useless to just let off a few round other than having fun.


money and safety problem


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## Viet

*A Grave Mission Back to Vietnam*

Some 300,000 Vietnamese casualties were never found. A local veteran is consumed with helping to track them down.

By Stephanie Farr / Staff Writer
farrs@phillynews.com /
Wednesday, September 20, 2017


The search consumes him now, almost 50 years after Bob Connor smelled the stench of their piled, rotting bodies from across the base and then went back to his duties.





DAVID SWANSON / Staff Photographer
Bob Connor, a Vietnam War veteran who is helping the Vietnamese government identify mass graves of its soldiers killed during the war.


For hours on end and days that bleed into nights, the 70-year-old retired facilities manager sits at the computer in his Maple Shade, N.J., apartment, poring through vast troves of data, military records, and maps in search of clues about where long-missing bodies of Viet Cong and North Vietnamese soldiers might be buried.

For Connor — a U.S. Air Force veteran of the Vietnam War — this is more than a quest. It is a question of humanity.

In the United States, the Vietnam War has been etched into the fabric of an entire generation and is fading into history books. All but 1,603 American casualties have been found, their remains laid to rest. But in Vietnam, the final chapter of the war remains unwritten, families and comrades unsettled as nearly 300,000 soldiers are still missing, according to the Vietnamese government.









Courtesy of Bob Connor.
Top: Sgt. Bob Connor (second from left) with his fellow U.S. Air Force Security Forces members in 1967 at Bien Hoa Air Force Base in Vietnam.

Bottom: Connor carries a flare chute outside the barracks.

Many of the missing were buried in mass, unmarked graves dug by their former enemies — American servicemen. In a twist of internet serendipity, the Vietnamese government found Connor and asked him and other veterans to help locate the unmarked graves, to give thousands of Vietnamese families the closure that has eluded them for five decades.

Connor has answered that call with obsessive urgency. His mission to bring comfort to the families of his former enemies has taken him halfway around the world, alienated some Vietnam veterans, and unearthed vivid memories of the futility and horror of a war that ended long ago.

*'The colonel will be in touch'*
Connor was not out looking to start a new mission at this stage in his life.

He had been helping his granddaughter with a school project about the Vietnam War when he searched Google Earth for Bien Hoa Air Base, where he had served in 1967-68 as a sergeant with the U.S. Air Force Security Forces.





In the interest of cataloging history, Connor left a comment — and his email address — on one of the photos of Bien Hoa. He didn't really expect anyone to see it.





Panormaio (archived)
Using a now-defunct service called Panaramio that allowed users to augment Google Earth maps with personal photos, Connor left a comment – and his email address – on one of the photos of Bien Hoa. Click here to see his full note.
"Significant battle took place here at the start of the Tet Offensive '68," he wrote. "Those VC [Viet Cong] killed had to be buried in a mass grave at the end of the runway."

Ten days later, an email arrived from Vietnam.

It was from Che Trung Hieu, a 70-year-old veteran of the North Vietnamese People's Army, who was "very excited to hear about the grave because they knew nothing about it," Connor said. "So he's in shock, and I'm in shock, and he says, 'The colonel will be in touch with you.' "

Connor, who had been honorably discharged from the Air Force in 1969 and has been perfectly happy enjoying retired life since 2003, had no idea who "the colonel" was or what he had gotten himself into.

"I damn near s—," Connor said. "I thought, 'What did you do, you idiot?"

Soon after, he got another email. Col. Mai Xuan Chien — deputy political commissar of the military command in the province where Bien Hoa is located — said the Vietnamese government had been searching the area for decades with no success.

"We are so glad because over 40 past years, we have so many times searched and excavated along the perimeter of Bien Hoa Air Base, but we didn't find any of the mass graves," Mai wrote. "Would you please contact other veterans to give us more specific information?"

*'You have to get by that bitterness'*
In Vietnamese culture, soldiers who die in war but remain unaccounted for are referred to as martyrs. Their spirits are believed to wander between this world and the next until their bodies are found, identified, and properly entombed. Only then can they be called heroes.

Mai said first-person accounts were one of Vietnam's best resources for finding mass graves.

JARED WHALEN / Staff
*Retired Sgt. Bob Connor* describes his experience during the Tet Offensive at Bien Hoa Air Base, Vietnam.
"Veterans of the United States who are witnesses ... are the best clues, with their memory, souvenirs, photographs, and even their hearts of humanitarians," Mai wrote in an email to the Inquirer and Daily News, "along with the generosity and sympathy sharing the pain of war between two peoples of Vietnam and the United States."

Connor thought it strange that people in Vietnam would put so much faith in his word alone. It was an honor he did not take lightly.

He scoured the internet for other veterans who could have more detailed information about the mass grave at Bien Hoa, or any other mass graves in Vietnam. He posted on military Facebook pages and message boards. He sent emails and contacted website administrators.

Many times, he received no response. Sometimes, the responses were hostile.

"Let those stinking commies lay where they are," one Vietnam veteran wrote back to Connor. "I won the nation's 5th highest award for heroism … and killed as many of those commies as I could."

Connor hit roadblocks at every turn until one veteran put him in contact with retired Col. Martin Strones, who had been a captain of the U.S. Air Force Security Forces at Bien Hoa during the Tet Offensive battle and had been awarded the Silver Star for valor in combat.





DAVID SWANSON / Staff Photographer
Retired Air Force Colonel Martin E. Strones at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C.
On base after the attack, it had been Strones' job to count the enemy bodies.

"If you can imagine 150 bodies deteriorating rapidly in the sun, it's just a terrible stench — and then the animals start," he said. "It was almost impossible to breathe out there because of the smell."

Strones oversaw the gathering of the bodies, which were buried in an unmarked grave on the edge of the base.

Then, he went on with his duties — and his life.

"I never really dwelled on the mass grave," he said. "In fact, until Bob brought it up, I really hadn't thought about it."

*How the Tet Offensive played out at Bien Hoa*
The Tet Offensive launched on Jan. 30, 1968, and became one of the largest military campaigns of the war. At Bien Hoa Air Base, U.S. forces were badly outnumbered and caught in a surprise attack.

Click here to learn more about the Tet Offensive and how U.S. forces fared at Bien Hoa.

What Strones, 77, had thought about was returning to Bien Hoa Air Base.

Often.

"I've wanted to go back for many, many years. I don't know if I can explain why to anybody who was not in the military," he said. "It's the same reason why people go back to Normandy."

Strones spent 30 years in active duty and reserve service with the U.S. Air Force and now runs a security consulting company, Strones Enterprises Inc. He had tried at least three times to get back on Bien Hoa Air Base, about 20 miles northeast of what was then Saigon, but was denied access because the site is an active Vietnamese military installation.

In December, Strones, of Clinton, Tenn., received Connor's email, asking him to help locate the mass grave at Bien Hoa. Strones didn't hesitate to help.

"I know some people are still bitter, but we were doing what we were told. Some people are mad at the U.S. government for that, and some people are mad at the Vietnamese for that," Strones said. "I understand. But you have to get by that bitterness. If I'd have lost a son, I'd want to know where he ended up."

*Enemies no more*
Connor and Strones were invited to Vietnam in March by Mai and the Dong Nai Province People's Committee to help identify the grave at Bien Hoa.

“The common thread between us was that the war was over, and we were friends.”
Bob Connor

At their first meeting, Mai — dressed in full uniform — saluted the Americans. He made it clear, Connor said, that the Vietnamese held no ill-will toward U.S. veterans.

"He wanted us to know that they understand and respect what we had to do during the war," Connor said. "He only said it once, but you had that feeling the entire time we were there with him."

When Connor met Che, the man who wrote the email that started his transcontinental odyssey, he was overcome with emotion.

"It's a funny feeling, when you're face to face with your enemy, completely," Connor said, fighting back tears. "The common thread between us was that the war was over, and we were friends. We had just never met. And we're meeting now for the very first time."





Courtesy of Martin Strones
Meeting in March in a hotel lobby before heading out to the base in Vietnam are (from left) an interpreter, Vietnamese Col. Mai Xuan Chien, Vietnamese veteran Che Trung Hieu, U.S. veteran Martin Strones, a second interpreter, and U.S. veteran Bob Connor.





Courtesy of Martin Strones
Col. Mai Xuan Chien (right), vice political commissar of Dong Nai Province Military Command, with Strones (second from left) and Connor (second from right), and an unidentified man.

When Strones and Connor accompanied Mai and his group to try to locate the grave, they became the first Americans since the war to set foot on Bien Hoa Air Base. Even one of the deputy prime ministers, Truong Hoa Bình, came to the base to meet them and oversee the excavations.





Courtesy of Bob Connor
During the search in March for the unmarked grave at Bien Hoa, one of Vietnam’s deputy prime ministers, Truong Hoa Bình (second from left), visits the base to meet the American veterans.


After four days, they were unable to pinpoint the grave. Strones and Connor returned home deflated.

"I think they thought I could go right to the spot and say, 'Dig here,' " Strones said. "But I had told them more than once, 'I believe I can find it, but we didn't mark it, and it's been 49 years.' "

Connor was crestfallen.

"I was frustrated and ticked off because we couldn't find the grave," he said. "But they weren't upset."

Mai said that knowing the U.S. veterans were leaving his country so despondent only strengthened his people's resolve to find the grave.

DAVID SWANSON / Staff Photographer
*Retired Col. Martin Strones* talks about making peace with former enemies and helping them find closure.
"Mr. Martin Strones and Mr. Bob Connor had to return their country in an uneasy and unsatisfactory status," he said. "We did share those mood of them and determined to expand the search area."

Three weeks later, the mass grave of "relics and rotten bones" was uncovered at Bien Hoa, just 20 meters from where Strones said it would be, according to Mai.

The discovery proved to Che that Connor and Strones were "good, wonderful guys who help bring home the Martyrs who lay down under cold place nearly 50 years."










Courtesy of Martin Strones
Vietnamese soldiers sifting and excavating at Bien Hoa air base for a mass grave of North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers from the Vietnam War. The search in March was based on information provided by U.S. veterans Bob Connor and Martin Strones.


Dao Le Phuong, press and cultural attaché for the Vietnam Embassy in Washington, D.C., confirmed — in an email to the Inquirer and Daily News — the finding of "mass graves of Vietnamese martyrs" at Bien Hoa, "with the support of two American veterans, Bob Connor and Martin Strones."

While the grave was believed to have contained about 150 soldiers, the Vietnamese government was able to identify only 72 of the martyrs, and to contact their family members, Che said.

"The rest we will continue to contact and find their families, but it is difficult because, after 50 years of war, many families are scattered," he said.

On July 12, a reburial was held in Vietnam for the 72 soldiers who, thanks to their former enemies, are wandering spirits no more. Relatives of the dead came clutching photos of their loved ones, incense filled the hot air, and 72 small coffins — all draped in Vietnamese flags — were aligned in perfect rows.

"The memorial service was so emotional," Che said, "more than 1,500 attenders and martyrs' families from 23 provinces."






Mourners in July attended a ceremony and reburial for the 72 North Vietnamese and Viet Cong soldiers whose mass grave was found on Bien Hoa Air Base. The remains were excavated in April. Photos by Hoang Hanh Nguyen / Courtesy of Che Trung Hieu


Le Anh Toan, the brother of one of the soldiers found in the mass grave, said that in 1968, his family had received nothing more than a death notice.

For "50 years, our family has looked for our brother. Now we know his resting place amongst his comrades. We can finally be at peace," he told the Viet Nam News, a daily English newspaper in Hanoi.

Phung Duy Cuong, who fought at Bien Hoa for the North Vietnamese People's Army, said the soldiers who had died beside him that day were like brothers.

“We come from different places, we are not blood relatives, but we might as well be,” he told the paper. “The day we found our comrades feels like the day we found our family."

Strones' piercing blue eyes still well up when he talks about watching footage of the reburial.

Courtesy of Bob Connor.

On July 12, a reburial was held in Vietnam for the 72 martyrs who, thanks to their former enemies, are wandering spirits no more. At the ceremony, U.S. veterans Bob Connor and Martin Strones spoke to attendees via a video stream.
"To see those people standing with an 8-by-10 picture of their loved one — I'm so glad I was able to do that, to give them closure," he said. "People sent me emails saying, 'God bless you for coming to Vietnam and helping us heal the wounds.'"

Laying the dead to rest is "an important part of healing deep wounds," Ted Osius, U.S. ambassador to Vietnam, said in a statement.

"When people from both countries, who were once on opposite sides of the battlefield, are able to move on, become friends, and work together to pay respect to the fallen and bring a sense of closure to these families," Osius said, "that sends a powerful message."

*'A profound humanitarian issue'*
Today, Strones continues to speak to military groups about his humanitarian mission, in part to try to find others who may know about additional graves in Vietnam.











Courtesy of Che Trung Hieu.
Top: Family members carry photos of their loved ones at the reburial ceremony.

Bottom left: Sgt: Phùng Văn Thái, Unit: U1 Special Force of Bien Hoa. Born 1944 in Hai Phong City. Joined the army in Jan., 1965. Died Jan. 31, 1968.
Bottom right: Nguyen Văn Sơm, Unit: E4 (Regiment), F5 (Division 5). Born 1946 in Hưng Yen Province. Joined the army in April, 1966. Died Jan. 31, 1968.
Meanwhile, Connor — who came home from the Vietnam War feeling like he hadn't made a damn bit of difference — now spends up to four hours a day hunting the internet, trying to get other veterans to come forward.

"For those who have seen grotesque war atrocities, that's a hard pill to swallow. I admit that," Connor said of veterans' helping a former enemy. "They need to break away from that last thought of the guy who died beside them and think of the families in Vietnam that deserve closure."

What started as just one man on an unlikely mission has grown. Connor is now working with four other Vietnam veterans he found on the internet who have insight into additional mass graves in Vietnam. He and Strones have also provided information on several other mass graves containing as many as 3,000 soldiers, though those sites have yet to be excavated, Che said.

Connor hopes the U.S. government will also step up and provide intelligence it may have on mass graves in Vietnam, "or else this whole thing is going to take another 50 years."

*Why is Vietnam so far behind in identifying remains?*
After more than 40 years of largely unsuccessful attempts to find 300,000 missing war dead, Vietnam has invested $25 million into a project to locate and identify its lost soldiers.

Click here to read why.

Dao, of the Vietnamese Embassy, called the exchange of information "a profound humanitarian issue."

"Continued cooperation between the two countries on these humanitarian issues," he said, "serve the interest and wishes of our two people and help deepen our ties and relations."

Lee Tucker, a spokesman for the Defense Department's POW/MIA Accounting Agency, said in an email that, since 1988, the U.S. has conducted joint recovery operations with Vietnam for missing U.S. soldiers and citizens, and does so four times a year.

"The progress we have made in accounting for our personnel still missing from the war in Vietnam would not be possible without the support of the Vietnamese people and its government," Tucker wrote. "For that, we are very appreciative."

In 2015, the U.S. Agency for International Development signed a statement of cooperation with the Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology, which included a $980,000 grant to help advance the country's ability to identify remains.

While POW/MIA is aware of Connor and Strones' endeavor and is "supportive of the mission from a humanitarian perspective," Tucker said, the agency takes no official position on their actions.

"It is important to remember," he wrote, "these are efforts by veterans acting on their own."

Do you have information or resources that could help in the search for Vietnam's missing soldiers? Click here to contact reporter Stephanie Farr and veterans Bob Connor and Martin Strones.

*CREDITS*
Reporter: Stephanie Farr
Editor: Jessica Parks
Visuals editor: Frank Wiese
Design and graphics: Jared Whalen
Project Manager: Emily Babay
Video: David Swanson, Jared Whalen
Photography: David Swanson
Copy editor: Suzanne Weston

The Tet Offensive battle at Bien Hoa Air Base in Vietnam on Jan. 31, 1968, photographed by Air Force Sgt. Bob Connor, who was atop a water tower serving as a lookout. / Photo courtesy of Bob Connor


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## Viet

Visit of Liu Yunshan, a senior CCP official with an offer nobody expected, apparently in an attempt to calm down the mood. China offers $11 billion for Vietnam infrastructure projects.


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## xiao qi

*Angelina Jolie follows her passion with 'First They Killed My Father'*
Josh RottenbergContact Reporter


On an early September afternoon, Angelina Jolie sat in a sunlit room in a scenic mountainside hotel, clearly feeling relieved.

The day before, Jolie’s latest directorial effort, the emotionally wrenching Cambodian-genocide drama “First They Killed My Father,” had its North American premiere at the Telluride Film Festival. The crowd gave the film the kind of reception any director would dream of, with cheers and tears in equal measure, while critics took to Twitter to proclaim it Jolie’s best work as a director.

It was an auspicious launch into the awards-season fray for the film, which was released by Netflix on Friday via streaming and in 10 theaters nationwide and has been selected by Cambodia as the country’s official entry for the foreign-language Oscar.





Sareum Srey Moch as Loung Ung in a scene from "First They Killed My Father." (Roland Neveu / Netflix via AP)
With the screening under her belt, Jolie could now take a breath and take in the rest of the famously low-key festival, which she was attending for the first time with her six children in tow, enjoying the freedom to walk around without being besieged by paparazzi or reporters lobbing prying questions about her recent split from Brad Pitt.


“I geeked out on Ken Burns,” she said brightly, picking at a plate of cheese and crackers beside her longtime friend, Loung Ung, who authored the 2000 memoir “First They Killed My Father” and co-wrote the film’s screenplay with Jolie. “When do you get the chance to do that?”

On its face, “First They Killed My Father” — a child’s-eye view of the horrors of the brutal Khmer Rouge regime that claimed the lives of some 2 million Cambodians — may seem an unlikely project for Jolie to have tackled. The film is entirely in the Khmer language and chronicles events that took place on the other side of the globe when she was just a toddler.

Yet for the 42-year-old actress-turned-director, it is perhaps the most personal film she has made — an attempt to recount a painful chapter in the history of the country where her 16-year-old adopted son, Maddox Jolie-Pitt, was born and where she has put down her own roots over the last two decades.

Jolie and Ung first met some 16 years ago through their work on the issue of land mines in Cambodia. For years, they had talked about someday bringing Ung’s story of surviving the so-called killing fields to the screen. But neither was at all sure it would ever actually happen.

“Loung was in no rush to have the film made, and we knew Maddox needed to be in the right place because he was going to confront a lot,” Jolie said. “He goes to Cambodia a lot, he sees it — but not like that, not in that way. And then one day Mad said that he was ready.”

Jolie’s path to “First They Killed My Father” had begun in 2000, when she traveled to Cambodia to star in a very different kind of film, the action blockbuster “Lara Croft: Tomb Raider.”





Angelina Jolie and Sareum Srey Moch on the set of "First They Killed My Father." (Netflix)
“When I got there, I realized I knew nothing about this country and I felt very ignorant,” she said. “I decided to buy a book and learn a little bit so I picked up a $2 copy of ‘First They Killed My Father.’ That was really the beginning of an education and an awareness of how little I knew and how much I needed to change my view of the world.”

Inspired in part by her growing love for Cambodia — where she would eventually buy a house, become a citizen in 2005 and work for environmental conservation, education and other causes — Jolie started working with the United Nations as a goodwill ambassador in 2001, devoting more and more of her time to humanitarian efforts around the world that continue to this day.

Nearly four decades after the genocide ended, the subject is still difficult for many Cambodians to discuss, let alone see reenacted onscreen. But Ung says she was confident that Jolie would be able to do her story justice.

“Angie and I have gone through a lot in our friendship and I trust her as a woman, as a friend, as a filmmaker but also as a mother,” Ung said. “She has a track record, not just with me but with Cambodia and with the world, confronting tough issues of war and peace and refugees. So I knew she was somebody who would understand and pay careful attention and be very kind.”

Still, for Ung, who lost both her parents and two sisters in the genocide, watching the most traumatic events of her life play out onscreen for the first time, with young actress Sareum Srey Moch depicting her journey from carefree 5-year-old to orphaned child soldier to psychologically scarred survivor, was emotionally difficult.

“I went into it willing myself to be strong,” said Ung, who was sponsored by a church group after the war and resettled in Vermont and is now a human-rights activist. “I prepped myself for the hard scenes, the bombs and the soldiers and the land mines. But I found that the scenes that broke me the most were the first scenes with the family sitting down together for dinner. It was as simple as that. To see all nine of us at a table, just eating a meal — moments like that brought it back to what it’s all about, which is the love of family and all of us trying to survive together.”

Shooting the film in Cambodia in what became the largest production in the country since the war, Jolie drew upon every tool she had learned directing her previous features, 2011’s “In the Land of Blood and Honey,” 2014’s “Unbroken” and 2015’s “By the Sea.”

“I think I settled more into a voice,” she said. “Maybe it’s because of Maddox, I don't know, but I feel like I broke from the box a little bit and I felt bolder in the choices. I think just that little bit more confidence than I had before helped me to stay calm and let things happen on set.”

As for Maddox, Jolie said that working on the film, on which he is credited as an executive producer, put him more deeply in touch with his Cambodian heritage. “I never wanted to press on him that he had to be connected or had to love Cambodia,” she said. “That had to come naturally, and he had to confront a lot of hard realities of what his birth parents had probably lived through. But what happened was, yes, there was a lot to learn but he _made_ something. He created something with his fellow countrymen. He was part of a Cambodian crew, part of a Cambodian film, as a Cambodian.”

Though it’s safe to say that “First They Killed My Father” is not a film that most Hollywood studios would have jumped at the idea of making, Netflix agreed early on to back it. “It is true that this type of film would be difficult to make at a major studio because it it lacks star power and is in a foreign language,” said Scott Stuber, who oversees Netflix’s growing slate of original feature films. “We are fortunate because, for us, we have over 100 million members around the world who have unique and diverse tastes, and we have seen the power of good storytelling traveling globally.”

That said, Jolie is aware that a film about a genocide that took place decades ago in a country many Americans would have difficulty finding on a map may not necessarily be the easiest sell to domestic audiences, particularly these days. As someone who is deeply concerned with the rest of the world, she says the strain of isolationism that has taken hold in this country’s political life troubles her.

I think America is built on diversity and when we are at our best we are engaging in the world, pushing, representing something.— Angelina Jolie
“Maybe it’s because I wake up in the morning and my children are from many different countries and we travel in the world,” she said. “I live in the world. I’m proud to be American but I’m also proud to be Cambodian. I’m proud my daughter [Zahara] is Ethiopian. I think America is built on diversity and when we are at our best we are engaging in the world, pushing, representing something. And when we’re not able to do that, the damage that can have — how that spreads into all the other crises and conflicts and human-rights abuses in the world — is something we all need to be very aware of.”

Clearly energized by her experience making “First They Killed My Father,” Jolie said she is eager to find another project to direct. “I prefer being behind the camera,” she said. “I’ve never loved being in front of the camera. I’m much happier when I’m watching other people work.”

But she is looking for the right thing to spark her interest. Asked if she has ever considered trying to tackle a big-budget studio franchise film, like a superhero movie, she paused.

“I don’t know how good I’d be on that,” she said. “Those are more the ones I’d act in — that’s funny, isn’t it? But no, when you give two years of your life, I want to learn something. I want to be immersed in a culture or be learning about history.

“To direct something, you have to be so passionate. You have to live and die for it if you want to make it great. Some people are passionate about those big entertainment ones or new technologies. I’m passionate about country and culture and human beings.”



> This film told the truth thing about Vietnamese soldiers in Cambodia, we saved and rescued them from Khmer Rouge.


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## warzone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I have theories about that:
> 
> 1. I think its a logistical issue because Vietnam have mandatory services & probably don't want to take reserves ammo from their regulars.
> 
> 2. What doesn't make sense military wise, make sense government wise (& vice versa.) Some government official probably have it in their bright idea to use minimum resources to train someone so they can bulge the numbers of soldiers trained on paper.
> 
> 3. Corruption probably?...



People are focusing too much on those 3 bullets thing. It just a government funded program about teaching the youth some military drills and discipline, inducting patriotism and communism in a few speedy classes. It’s not about forming a military unit.

Communist ideology is that the people (farmers, workers, students…) should be ready to protect the revolution against all enemies, so the population need a military/weapon training to be able to defend the communism and the party. To put that communist theory into practical is another thing, training dozens or hundreds of thousands students will need a huge budget and a lot of time. That why you see a SYMBOLIC training, speedy basic training and the 3 bullets thing. So at the end of the day, the communist party would say they have tens millions of people ready to defend the revolution.

Those students shouldn’t be consider any military asset like a military reserve or militia, but they could be useful to carry supplies, filling sand bags or digging trenches or any labor jobs…. Obviously it would be suicidal to send any of them to combat, the same thing apply for the boyscouts and army cadets around the world. (Gosh I was in the army cadet when I was a kid and no way we were ready to fight despite wearing uniform and doing drill…were are just kids….lol)


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## TaiShang

AViet said:


> Clearly that you look at China-Vietnam relationship from Western (german) point of view. Vietnamese do not see it that way.



*

I think it is a question of where one's immediate interests and loyalty lie.

*

*Opportunities abound for Vietnamese & Chinese enterprises*

Last update: 07:48 | 21/09/2017

_Ms. Doan Thi Thu Thuy, Deputy Director of the Vietnam Trade Promotion Agency, tells VET's Hai Van about cooperation between enterprises from Vietnam and China._


_



_


*What potential is there for Vietnamese enterprises to cooperate with Chinese enterprises?*

Vietnam is on the way to integrating into the global economy. It is involved in 16 free trade agreements (FTAs) and the ASEAN Economic Community, which boosts its strengths as well as trade and economic cooperation. 

Vietnam’s GDP grew 6.21 per cent in 2016. Total trade turnover was $351 billion, an increase of 6.63 per cent against 2015, which is evidence of successful integration.

*What are the advantages for Vietnamese enterprises in cooperating with China?*

Vietnam and China have strengths in terms of geography location, sharing a long border.

The Chinese market has significant potential and bears certain similarities with the Vietnamese market, Vietnamese culture, and Vietnamese consumers. 

Trade turnover between the two countries has been rising significantly and sustainably. China has been Vietnam’s largest trading partner since 2004. 

Total trade turnover between the two stood at $71.97 billion in 2016, up 8.06 per cent against 2015. 

They are boosting cooperation in order to reach the targeted $100 billion in trade this year, according to both governments.

Notably, Guang Xi is an important province for Vietnam to export Vietnamese products into China and it’s also a gateway for China to export products to ASEAN. 

Convenient transport links, including road and sea, and cooperation between Vietnamese and Guang Xi authorities have provided a great foundation for development. 

Trade between Guang Xi and Vietnam reached $13.2 billion in the first seven months of this year, up 4.2 per cent year-on-year. 

Vietnam imported over $7.68 billion and Guang Xi $5.5 billion, increases of 0.2 per cent and 10.3 per cent, respectively.

*Can you evaluate the quality of Vietnamese enterprises attending the China-ASEAN Expo (CAEXPO)?*

Four sectors in Vietnam were represented at the recent CAEXPO 14: processed agricultural products, machinery, electronic products, and construction materials. 

There were more than a hundred Vietnamese enterprises taking part, introducing special Vietnamese products to international enterprises. 

At the same time, Vietnamese enterprises sought cooperation with Chinese enterprises and those from ASEAN. Trade is always one of the most important activities. 

Vietnamese enterprises connected with enterprises from China and Guang Xi, to effectively explore economic support and boost specific cooperation now and into the future.

*What do Vietnamese businesses need to pay attention to when exporting to China?*

In China as well as in all international markets, it is necessary to pay attention to product quality and price.

*What opportunities do you expect to come the way of Vietnamese enterprises through this business exchange?*

Business exchange is a necessary activity for both Vietnamese and Chinese enterprises, where they can carefully research partners. 

I expect that Vietnamese enterprises will have many cooperation opportunities to export their products to China.

_VN Economic Times_


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## xiao qi

warzone said:


> People are focusing too much on those 3 bullets thing. It just a government funded program about teaching the youth some military drills and discipline, inducting patriotism and communism in a few speedy classes. It’s not about forming a military unit.
> 
> Communist ideology is that the people (farmers, workers, students…) should be ready to protect the revolution against all enemies, so the population need a military/weapon training to be able to defend the communism and the party. To put that communist theory into practical is another thing, training dozens or hundreds of thousands students will need a huge budget and a lot of time. That why you see a SYMBOLIC training, speedy basic training and the 3 bullets thing. So at the end of the day, the communist party would say they have tens millions of people ready to defend the revolution.
> 
> Those students shouldn’t be consider any military asset like a military reserve or militia, but they could be useful to carry supplies, filling sand bags or digging trenches or any labor jobs…. Obviously it would be suicidal to send any of them to combat, the same thing apply for the boyscouts and army cadets around the world. (Gosh I was in the army cadet when I was a kid and no way we were ready to fight despite wearing uniform and doing drill…were are just kids….lol)



I don't think all the military training for students are nonsense. Forget the battle of Quang Tri where almost soldiers in there are students from North Vietnam univer, they proved they fought well in front of massive pressure, If I remember right, they only got 3 months training in Thai Nguyen.


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## warzone

xiao qi said:


> I don't think all the military training for students are nonsense. Forget the battle of Quang Tri where almost soldiers in there are students from North Vietnam univer, they proved they fought well in front of massive pressure, If I remember right, they only got 3 months training in Thai Nguyen.



I never think it's was useless to give some short basic training to students, it always good to learn new stuffs. Some countries teach students doing agriculture or navigation, VN teach some basic drills and patriotism. It's some people who though it's useless because of firing 3 bullets.

I know what you mention about students who fought during Viet Nam war, they called them volunteers students brigades (I think) and they received full regular military training and equipped with full standard military gears. I admire those volunteers students during war, gave up studies and join the army to go to the front, they were brave, enthusiast and patriotic.

But we must not comparing those volunteers who got full training and today students who got a very quick one.

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## Nilgiri

https://www.voanews.com/a/india-japan-plan-to-up-maritime-activity-at-china/4036453.html

India, Japan Expected to Increase Maritime Activity Aimed at China

TAIPEI, TAIWAN — 

India and Japan, anxious to keep Asia’s dominant power Beijing in check, may send patrols into the contested South China Sea or sell arms to rival states following a pair of high-level meetings this month, experts say.

Both Asian countries could sell or donate more weapons to China’s rival maritime claimants, such as Vietnam, so they can build a defense against Beijing. Japan may also use coast guard or naval ships to patrol the sea to show it’s open despite China’s claim to some 90 percent of it.

India will probably continue joint exploration with Vietnam for oil and gas under the 3.5 million-square-kilometer sea, analysts say.

“Delhi and Tokyo have both been stepping up their capacity-building efforts in the region, with Japan focused mainly on providing patrol vessels and training for Southeast Asian states and India selling arms to and training the Vietnamese navy,” said Gregory Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative of the American think tank Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Two High-Level Talks in a Week

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe met counterpart Narendra Modi in India Sept. 13-14 to discuss “enhancing maritime security cooperation,” according to a foreign ministry statement from Tokyo.

On Monday their foreign ministers met at the United Nations with U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to talk about freedom of navigation and respect for international law, the Indian external affairs ministry spokesman said.

Analysts understood both discussions to be aimed at China, including its expansion in the contested sea since 2010.

Neither India nor Japan claims the South China Sea, but the two have warily eyed China’s ascent to being the largest economy and military power in Asia. And despite the meeting with Tillerson in New York, the U.S. government is seen as preoccupied by the militarization of North Korea.

Arms for China’s Smaller South China Sea Claimants

Japan as well as India could sell more weapons to the four Southeast Asian states whose coastal waters overlap China’s claim to the sea, analysts say.

Japan indicated in January it would give Vietnam six patrol boats to help with maritime security. Vietnam has clashed three times since the 1970s with Chinese vessels. In August last year, Japan began giving the Philippines 10 coast guard boats through a soft loan agreement.

India has talked to Vietnam about supplying it BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, which are co-developed with Russia, among other missiles, leading a state-backed Chinese media outlet earlier this year to accuse India of causing trouble. India in September 2016 offered Vietnam a $500 million line of credit to buy defense hardware, including patrol boats.

Sending Patrol Missions into the Disputed Sea

Japan may test China with low-key patrols of the sea, said Le Hong Hiep, research fellow with the ISEAS Yusof Ishak Institute in Singapore. In May it sent an Izumo helicopter-carrying warship into the sea for port visits in Southeast Asia en route to joint exercises with the United States.

“What they have done is they send a ship to Gulf of Aden and on the way back they do kind of patrol in the South China Sea and do port calls to Vietnam, et cetera,” Le said. “But they do not intentionally design any kind of (freedom of navigation) program in the South China Sea as it may provoke China.

“But in the future I’m not sure, because Japan obviously has some interest in containing China’s ambitions in the South China Sea as well,” he said.

Patrols would show the sea, also packed with fisheries, is open to other countries despite Beijing’s claim of sovereignty to the waterway off its south coast. China has strengthened control and angered rival claimants by using landfill to build artificial islands ready for combat aircraft and radar systems.

Brunei, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines claim all or part of the same sea.

India and Japan might patrol the sea together with coast guard ships, said Andrew Yang, secretary-general of the Chinese Council of Advanced Policy Studies think tank in Taiwan. They would occasionally send naval vessels, he added.

“Maybe they will increase the momentum of their joint activities in order to demonstrate that Japan and India are closely cooperating in terms of regulating the so-called rule-based behavior in the South China Sea and the region,” Yang said.

India’s Overtures in Southeast Asia

India, as part of a fast-growing trade and investment relationship with Vietnam, can further assert itself in the South China Sea by working with Vietnamese firms on exploration for oil and gas, Le said.

For the past three years, the overseas subsidiary of India’s government-run ONGC has worked with PetroVietnam Exploration Production Corporation to search for oil and gas in the South China Sea. That cooperation helps Vietnam improve its "bargaining power" with China, Le said.

Since losing a world arbitration court verdict over its claim to the South China Sea last year, China has sought favor with Southeast Asian countries through economic aid and investment. Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines are accepting China’s overtures -- along with the same from other major nations.

The Philippines, for example, welcomes Japanese aid because the public and the China-friendly government have long trusted Tokyo, said Maria Ela Atienza, political science professor at University of the Philippines Diliman. Filipinos know less about India, she said, but Japan could bridge the gap.

“At least people are not so aware of possible positive relations with India,” Atienza said. “But if it’s an alliance, maybe if Japan can vouch for India, perhaps that can build confidence in terms of the partnership.”

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## AViet

it is more likely that Vietnam will soon start export its weapon to India, rather than vice versa.

Indian weapons? I doubt Vietnam will ever buy anything from India. Just like Brahmos, which we have heard about since as soon as 2005.

Why Vietnam need to buy from you when we can buy the original version from Russia. Why do we need the tech transfer from you if we can have better from Russia, if Vietnam ever want to manufacture the Yakhont. And with the quality of manufacturing in India is so low, which even Indian-made rifles are not accepted by its army, anything worth to be bought from India will be just likely India assembly work, which can be done in Vietnam as well.

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## AMCA

AViet said:


> it is more likely that Vietnam will soon start export its weapon to India, rather than vice versa.
> 
> Indian weapons? I doubt Vietnam will ever buy anything from India. Just like Brahmos, which we have heard about since as soon as 2005.
> 
> Why Vietnam need to buy from you when we can buy the original version from Russia. Why do we need the tech transfer from you if we can have better from Russia, if Vietnam ever want to manufacture the Yakhont. And with the quality of manufacturing in India is so low, which even Indian-made rifles are not accepted by its army, anything worth to be bought from India will be just likely India assembly work, which can be done in Vietnam as well.



Err !! You must compare Yakhont and Brahmos thoroughly before making such a statement. Even the American and Italian weaponry failed to meet the Indian conditions and standards set by the Army. If Vietnam chooses to do so, it very well may! Its really hard to keep the production lines running if the in house demands are low, so be careful what you wish for. Best of Luck however !

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## Viet

The last commander of the Hanoi Hilton, the most infamous POW camp in North Vietnam, at a departure ceremony for American POWs. (Michael Dobbs/The Washington Post)









Robert Chenoweth, who was held in a prison camp for five year, talks about his experience in Vietnam. (Photo by Kai Eiselein/ for The Washington Post)

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## Viet

Good stuff

Hanwha begins with the construction of Vietnam first ever aircraft engine parts factory. The Korean company with over $53 billion in sales is a big number in business providing aircraft parts in both civil and military aircraft such as F5, F15K and T50 fighter jets.













The Koreans can send F15K fighter aircraft for maintenance to Vietnam.










http://www.hanwha.com/en/news_and_m...aircraft-engine-parts-factory-in-vietnam.html

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Good stuff
> 
> Hanwha begins with the construction of Vietnam first ever aircraft engine parts factory. The Korean company with over $53 billion in sales is a big number in business providing aircraft parts in both civil and military aircraft such as F5, F15K and T50 fighter jets.
> 
> View attachment 427026
> View attachment 427028
> View attachment 427027
> 
> 
> 
> The Koreans can send F15K fighter aircraft for maintenance to Vietnam.
> 
> View attachment 427031
> 
> View attachment 427030
> 
> 
> http://www.hanwha.com/en/news_and_m...aircraft-engine-parts-factory-in-vietnam.html



This is actually really huge news. Congratulations! As you gain experience and know-how over time, you will do the critical system assembly and even design I am sure. Hanwha also has access to the top of the line catalogues from the West given nature of ROK aviation assets....you can skip many iterations that say India and China had to do with soviet/russian engine tech inheritance (and the frontier curve is quite behind west anyway)....and focus where your HR is best suited in the overall sector.

I might be working on a cpl years old project involving PW and hanwha in future sometime so maybe I will have a work reason to visit Vietnam  depending on what Hanwha is outsourcing there. Will have to look up more on this project or maybe you can update as you find here.

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## warzone

@xiao qi Did Bao Ninh (author of the sorrow of war) was also a volunteer student and then joined the Glorious 27th youth brigade? Of the five hundred who went to war with his brigade in 1969, he was one of ten to survive at the end of the war. And then 6 of those 10 survivors committed suicide after the war. What a tragic and sad end for everyone in this Glorious 27th youth brigade.

Sorrow of war is my favorite book of all time (and it’s the only book that made me cry..LOL). 

Beside those students who volunteers for combat duties, let not forget the hundred thousand of young people (girls and boys) between 13 and 22 years old who were formed into the Youth Brigades [Thanh Niên Xung Phong ) during the war time. They were doing mostly logistic duties like transport (ammunition, wounded soldiers, food), paving the way, clearing bombs, ect… About 10 000 died during the conflicts.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> This is actually really huge news. Congratulations! As you gain experience and know-how over time, you will do the critical system assembly and even design I am sure. Hanwha also has access to the top of the line catalogues from the West given nature of ROK aviation assets....you can skip many iterations that say India and China had to do with soviet/russian engine tech inheritance (and the frontier curve is quite behind west anyway)....and focus where your HR is best suited in the overall sector.
> 
> I might be working on a cpl years old project involving PW and hanwha in future sometime so maybe I will have a work reason to visit Vietnam  depending on what Hanwha is outsourcing there. Will have to look up more on this project or maybe you can update as you find here.


Hanwha wants to invest $200 million into the project. The company will recruit 1,000 people in total with many of them technicians and engineers. The industrial park is in the negotiations for additional $500 million investment. So there is a chance to foreigners to apply for a job. VN labor law demands companies to employ domestic workers but companies can select foreign expects if no Vietnamese with required skills can be found within a period. So you are welcome.

VN aero industry is still at infancy. It may take one or two decades to get VN to where RoK is now.

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## Viet

Russia made warships Gepard class may come cheaper than expected. The guided missile frigates will get the main weaponry Kh35 AShM and 533mm Torpedo from the domestic production.











Harish Parvathaneni, India ambassador to Vietnam says India will soon begin to deliver 12 patrol vessels to Vietnam as part of $100 million package. Manufactured by GRSE, length 37 m, 140 tons, equipped by 1x 76mm main gun, 2 x 30mm AK-630 rattling cannons.

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## enquencher

Indian Navy Brass Band to perform in Hanoi Published September 23, 2017 SOURCE: VIETNAMNET The Indian Navy Brass Band will perform in Vietnam for the first time to enhance the cultural exchange and mutual understanding between the two countries. The band is part of a visit by two Indian Navy ships, docking in Hai Phong Port. The band will perform military marches, patriotic tunes and Bollywood film music. It has performed across the globe at international fleet reviews, music festivals, coronations and parades.The performance will take place at the Indian Cultural Centre, 63 Tran Hung Dao Street, Hanoi. Entrance is free.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website http://idrw.org/indian-navy-brass-band-to-perform-in-hanoi/#more-148566 .


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## xiao qi

warzone said:


> @xiao qi Did Bao Ninh (author of the sorrow of war) was also a volunteer student and then joined the Glorious 27th youth brigade? Of the five hundred who went to war with his brigade in 1969, he was one of ten to survive at the end of the war. And then 6 of those 10 survivors committed suicide after the war. What a tragic and sad end for everyone in this Glorious 27th youth brigade.
> 
> Sorrow of war is my favorite book of all time (and it’s the only book that made me cry..LOL).
> 
> Beside those students who volunteers for combat duties, let not forget the hundred thousand of young people (girls and boys) between 13 and 22 years old who were formed into the Youth Brigades [Thanh Niên Xung Phong ) during the war time. They were doing mostly logistic duties like transport (ammunition, wounded soldiers, food), paving the way, clearing bombs, ect… About 10 000 died during the conflicts.
> View attachment 427132
> View attachment 427133
> 
> View attachment 427134


I don't know, I also read his book, in the sorrow of war the protagonist is a volunteer student so I guess Bao Ninh describes based on his past. This novel also obsesses me so much.


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## Viet

*Indian warships make port call in northern Vietnam*

By Giang Chinh
September 23, 2017 | VN express
*The visit aims to enhance relations, understanding and trust between the two countries' navies.*


Two Indian warships docked at Hai Phong's Chua Ve Port on Saturday for a four-day visit to the northern city.

The stealth frigate INS Satpura (F48) and the anti-submarine warfare corvette INS Kadmatt (P29) carry a total of 645 officers and sailors, led by Captain Rahul Shankar, commander of the INS Satpura.






The INS Satpura docks at Chua Ve Port in Hai Phong.


The crews were welcomed by representatives of the city's Foreign Affairs Department, the Ministry of National Defense's Foreign Relations Department, the Vietnamese Navy's 1st Regional Command and local units of the people's armed forces.

During the visit, the crews will participate in joint training drills and knowledge and cultural exchanges, as well as sports games with the Vietnamese Navy. The activities are aimed to enhance relations, understanding and trust between the two navies.

After leaving Hai Phong, the ships' crews would conduct a passing exercise (PASSEX) and a search and rescue exercise with the Vietnamese Navy.

The warships' visit this year comes after the 45th anniversary of Vietnam-India diplomatic relations and the 10th anniversary of the two countries' strategic partnership.

The last visit to Vietnam by Indian naval ships was in May 2016, when the INS Satpura and the corvette INS Kirch visited Cam Ranh International Port in central Vietnam.

@Nilgiri

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## sahureka2

Novorossiysk Russia 5 September 2017.
Vietnam's frigate number 487



















photo: уфимец

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Hanwha wants to invest $200 million into the project. The company will recruit 1,000 people in total with many of them technicians and engineers. The industrial park is in the negotiations for additional $500 million investment. So there is a chance to foreigners to apply for a job. VN labor law demands companies to employ domestic workers but companies can select foreign expects if no Vietnamese with required skills can be found within a period. So you are welcome.
> 
> VN aero industry is still at infancy. It may take one or two decades to get VN to where RoK is now.



Oh I am settled here in Canada hehe....but I mean more for a short consultancy stint (to impart know how both ways on certain things as they scale up)...I did a cpl in China a while back...learned more about China in the process. Vietnam on my list now if given the chance hehe.

Is the Hanwha facility located in a high-tech park/complex/SEZ of some sort btw?

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## Aqsuperman

A recent "Joint Anti Terrorist Exercise" Between Vietnam and its northern neighbor

Look like the Border Guard will start re - equipping with IWI Gali soon. The rest of the Army will probably have to wait for a bit.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Oh I am settled here in Canada hehe....but I mean more for a short consultancy stint (to impart know how both ways on certain things as they scale up)...I did a cpl in China a while back...learned more about China in the process. Vietnam on my list now if given the chance hehe.
> 
> Is the Hanwha facility located in a high-tech park/complex/SEZ of some sort btw?


Canada is much better, not only the wage is higher. I would not relocate to VN. Hanwha Vietnam sits in an industrial park in Hanoi.



Aqsuperman said:


> A recent "Joint Anti Terrorist Exercise" Between Vietnam and its northern neighbor
> 
> Look like the Border Guard will start re - equipping with IWI Gali soon. The rest of the Army will probably have to wait for a bit.


Is the exercise supposed to be cancelled by the Chinese? They threaten us with war, and now this theater piece. But seriously I am thinking we should invite the PLA for a large scale military exercise including involvement of tank armies and naval fleets. Not too bad if we can discover their vulnerabilities and weaknesses in strategy and weaponry.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Canada is much better, not only the wage is higher. I would not relocate to VN. Hanwha Vietnam sits in an industrial park in Hanoi.
> 
> 
> Is the exercise supposed to be cancelled by the Chinese? They threaten us with war, and now this theater piece. But seriously I am thinking we should invite the PLA for a large scale military exercise including involvement of tank armies and naval fleets. Not too bad if we can discover their vulnerabilities and weaknesses in strategy and weaponry.


This exercise is a usual don't make it too serious


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> This exercise is a usual don't make it too serious


more or less a circus, something a news for the press for a day. We missed the chance to see the PLA in combat when they canceled the war against India, otherwise we would get some insights into chinese army after decades of military buildup.

their present command structure, tactic and strategy would be of special interest for the vietnamese army.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> more or less a circus, something a news for the press for a day. We missed the chance to see the PLA in combat when they canceled the war against India, otherwise we would get some insights into chinese army after decades of military buildup.
> 
> their present command structure, tactic and strategy would be of special interest for the vietnamese army.



We learn enough things in the 20 century, now it is time to catch up to western countries.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Not too bad if we can discover their vulnerabilities and weaknesses in strategy and weaponry.


I can tell you the vulnerabilities and weaknesses of PLA:
*- slow progress of the J20 program;* we need to wait till 2020 to have 100 J20s in service, only half of the size of the F22 fleet, needless to say the growing inventory of F35!
*- slow progress of the carrier program; *PLAN will have only two carriers by 2020 (Liaoning + Type 002 that still in building progress); 5~6 carriers by 2030. Even if the 2030 target achieved as plan, it is still only half of the size of US Navy. And the US carriers are all nuclear powered + catapult-assisted take off, which makes the China/US gap even larger;
*- slow progress of the destroyers program. *PLAN will have only 20~30 modern destroyers (052C, 052D, 055) by 2020; but US Navy has close to 100 units!! (AB class + Ticonderoga + Zumwalt)
*- slow progress of the stealth bomber H20 program. *I guess PLAAF will have the first operational H20 in between 2025 to 2030. But US had its very first B2 in 1990!! Sh!t, a 40year gap!!!
*- slow progress of the fixed-wing plane program! *Sh!t, this is the program that I hate most!! We've been waiting for it for toooo much time. Without the fixed wing plane platform, it is impossible for PLAN/AF to have suitable carrier-borne AEW, or anti-sub plane.
*- slow progress of the nuclear subs. *Compared to the US Virginia Class or Ohio Class, the PLAN nuclear sub fleet makes me unhappy again!!
*- Insufficient investment on defense. *China spends only 1.9% of the GDP on defense, the investment intensity is toooo small. To be honest I feel envy to Vietnam, because Vietnam spends 2.4% of the GDP on defense. This makes me envy!

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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> Is the exercise supposed to be cancelled by the Chinese? They threaten us with war, and now this theater piece. But seriously I am thinking we should invite the PLA for a large scale military exercise including involvement of tank armies and naval fleets. Not too bad if we can discover their vulnerabilities and weaknesses in strategy and weaponry.



I think it is important to maintain a secure and peaceful border for uninterrupted trade between the two nations.

***

*Vietnam, China work together to maintain peaceful border*

_The freshly-concluded fourth Vietnam-China border defence friendship exchange programme has contributed to building a peaceful border, said Vietnamese Deputy Defence Minister Sen. Lieut. Gen. Nguyen Chi Vinh._


_



_

_Vice Secretary of the Central Military Commission and Defence Minister of Vietnam General Ngo Xuan Lich (R) and Vice Chairman of the Central Military Commission of China Senior Lieutenant General Fan Changlong_

He told the Vietnam News Agency that the programme has also helped to promote coordination between the two countries’ border forces in dealing with issues regarding territorial sovereignty, border security, and border law compliance, and in organising activities to improve living standards of border residents as well as development in the border areas. 

The defence activities in reality have contributed to intensifying mutual trust between the two Parties and armies, and settling differences between Vietnam and China on the basis of mutual respect, respect for international law and interest sharing, Vinh said. 

The Deputy Minister said during the exchange programme, the two sides engaged in practical activities, with the most noteworthy being a joint exercise on cross-border anti-terrorism and the building of a border friendship cultural house.

The activities demonstrate the resolve of Vietnamese and Chinese Parties, States and armies to maintain a border of peace and cooperation, and bring happiness and prosperity to their people. 

Through their talks, Vice Secretary of the Central Military Commission and Defence Minister of Vietnam General Ngo Xuan Lich and Vice Chairman of the Central Military Commission of China Senior Lieutenant General Fan Changlong agreed to expand and deepen the border exchange, from the defence ministerial level to military zone and provincial levels, he said. 

They also consented to step up exchanges between hamlets and consider border guards the centre force of the exchange programme, apart from public security, youth and other social groups, according to the officer. 

Minister Lich noted his hope for increased border exchange activities in particular as well as stronger defence cooperation in general, Vinh said.

The two sides are working on measures to support people in health care and natural disaster response, the officer said, expressing his belief that with the determination of the two Parties and armies, these reached agreements will be realised.

*Officers of Vietnam, China central military commissions hold talks*

*



*

_Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission Fan Changlong (front, first, left) and Vice Secretary of the Central Military Commission and Defence Minister of Vietnam Ngo Xuan Lich (front, left, right) encourage Vietnamese and Chinese border guards at the fourth border defence friendship exchange in Lai Chau province on September 23_


Vice Secretary of the Central Military Commission and Defence Minister of Vietnam Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich had talks with Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission Fan Changlong on September 24 as part of the fourth Vietnam-China border defence friendship exchange.

At the talks at the border guard command of Jinping country in China’s Yunnan province, Fan hailed the success of the fourth exchange, which took place concurrently in Yunnan and Vietnam’s Lai Chau province. He noted the solidarity between both sides’ border guard forces has helped ensure stability and development in border areas.

Through border exchanges, the trust between the Vietnamese and Chinese armies and people has been reinforced, he said, stressing that trust is a foundation to enhance relations between their Parties and armies, helping solve disagreements and boost bilateral ties.

He suggested the two sides reform border defence exchanges and organise them in more diversified forms such as experience sharing and military skills competitions, turning the exchanges into an outstanding cooperation activity of the Vietnamese and Chinese armies.

Applauding the fourth exchange’s success, Lich said it helped the two countries’ armies and people better understand each other and enhance their confidence in the peace and stability in border areas and in the sustainability of bilateral friendship.

He also commended both sides’ military agencies and units for effectively implementing cooperation activities, keeping border security, and helping border communities pair with each other.

The officers signed the minutes on the fourth Vietnam-China border defence friendship exchange.

Earlier, the Vietnamese delegation visited a primary school near the Jin Shui He border gate of Yunnan province.

The Vietnamese delegation went home to wrap up the exchange programme on the day.

_VNA_

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/go...ork-together-to-maintain-peaceful-border.html

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## xiao qi

An American GI helps an injured Vietcong soldier by offering him water from his personal canteen. The soldier had fought for three days with his intestines hanging out of his stomach and into a bowl stepped to his belly. The GI was told not to let him drink but is quoted as saying “Any soldier that can fight for three days with his insides out, can drink from my canteen anytime.” There’s a similar scene in the iconic Vietnam War film Apocalypse Now. Photo credit to Philip Jones Griffiths.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> I can tell you the vulnerabilities and weaknesses of PLA:
> *- slow progress of the J20 program;* we need to wait till 2020 to have 100 J20s in service, only half of the size of the F22 fleet, needless to say the growing inventory of F35!
> *- slow progress of the carrier program; *PLAN will have only two carriers by 2020 (Liaoning + Type 002 that still in building progress); 5~6 carriers by 2030. Even if the 2030 target achieved as plan, it is still only half of the size of US Navy. And the US carriers are all nuclear powered + catapult-assisted take off, which makes the China/US gap even larger;
> *- slow progress of the destroyers program. *PLAN will have only 20~30 modern destroyers (052C, 052D, 055) by 2020; but US Navy has close to 100 units!! (AB class + Ticonderoga + Zumwalt)
> *- slow progress of the stealth bomber H20 program. *I guess PLAAF will have the first operational H20 in between 2025 to 2030. But US had its very first B2 in 1990!! Sh!t, a 40year gap!!!
> *- slow progress of the fixed-wing plane program! *Sh!t, this is the program that I hate most!! We've been waiting for it for toooo much time. Without the fixed wing plane platform, it is impossible for PLAN/AF to have suitable carrier-borne AEW, or anti-sub plane.
> *- slow progress of the nuclear subs. *Compared to the US Virginia Class or Ohio Class, the PLAN nuclear sub fleet makes me unhappy again!!
> *- Insufficient investment on defense. *China spends only 1.9% of the GDP on defense, the investment intensity is toooo small. To be honest I feel envy to Vietnam, because Vietnam spends 2.4% of the GDP on defense. This makes me envy!


I like your humour. what you listed are not weaknesses more overkill. Not even the last one with percentage of gdp.


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## Viet

Hungary government chief Viktor Orban on a visit to Hanoi. He apparently has great trust to Vietnam future although we haven't any destroyer and aircraft carrier yet. He says wanting his country to be part of Vietnam's development over the next 30 years. Not big countries as Germany or France but Hungary and Serbia are the gateway for Vietnam to Europe.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I like your humour. what you listed are not weaknesses more overkill. Not even the last one with percentage of gdp.



Actually, he did exposed the Chinese weakness, just don't look at what he posted, but instead, look at how he posted. And you will know what I am talking about.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Actually, he did exposed the Chinese weakness, just don't look at what he posted, but instead, look at how he posted. And you will know what I am talking about.


Interesting. I have seen it as a means of intimidation when he lists Chinese military buildup. Where is the weak link?


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Interesting. I have seen it as a means of intimidation when he lists Chinese military buildup. Where is the weak link?



Again, instead of looking at his content, look at how he posted the information online. You will get what is Chinese Weak Link...


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Again, instead of looking at his content, look at how he posted the information online. You will get what is Chinese Weak Link...


I notice he emphasized China is a backward country having slow progress if compared to the US. Hm...should he imply the PLA has no chance against VN because we once defeated the almighty America?

All Chinese military buildup is for the trash bin?


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I notice he emphasized China is a backward country having slow progress if compared to the US. Hm...should he imply the PLA has no chance against VN because we once defeated the almighty America?
> 
> All Chinese military buildup is for the trash bin?



no....


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## Nike

Aqsuperman said:


> A recent "Joint Anti Terrorist Exercise" Between Vietnam and its northern neighbor
> 
> Look like the Border Guard will start re - equipping with IWI Gali soon. The rest of the Army will probably have to wait for a bit.



PSGAT style helmets, new assault Rifle, new carrier vest for plate armor, new webbing and chest rig (compared to old commies style), a good progress indeed for the land forces. If Vietnam ever need it, I am sure, Indonesia can supply quality made infantry gears and tools in large number

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## xiao qi

madokafc said:


> PSGAT style helmets, new assault Rifle, new carrier vest for plate armor, new webbing and chest rig (compared to old commies style), a good progress indeed for the land forces. If Vietnam ever need it, I am sure, Indonesia can supply quality made infantry gears and tools in large number


In Vietnam, people are not fancy with army's costume, hope leader will change their though and indo maybe is a good choice for the changing


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> no....


Ha ha you are a difficult person. ok one last try. China thinks having a chance against legendary Vietnamese navy if they one day have more air craft carriers than the US that once deployed in the war against Vietnam in the South China sea: 27. posting just three, 27 would be too much here.

USS Yorktown





USS Kitty Hawk





USS Forrestal


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## Viet

POLICIES & POLITICS
*China pulls Vietnam border war movie from cinema holiday line-up at last minute*
Director Feng Xiaogang’s tribute to veterans withdrawn in lead-up to key Communist Party gathering, industry source says

Choi Chi-yuk
UPDATED : Sunday, 24 Sep 2017, 8:26PM


A movie tribute by one of China’s leading directors to Chinese veterans of the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese war has been pulled from cinemas after a last-minute “discussion”.

Director Feng Xiaogang’s movie _Youth_, or _Fanghua_, was scheduled to be released across China on September 29 in time for the weeklong National Day holiday.

But in a brief online statement on Sunday, Feng’s production house said the release date would be postponed as a result of “discussions with the film administration bureau and other relevant parties”.

“The new release date [of _Youth_] will be made public later on. We apologise to cinemas and viewers for any inconvenience caused,” the statement said.

The movie tells the story of a military dance troupe during the Cultural Revolution and China’s brief border war with Vietnam.

Ticket sales and promotion for the movie were already under way.

A movie industry source said the film touched on many sensitive topics and the authorities did not want it aired right before the Communist Party gathered for its five-yearly national congress next month.

The congress is scheduled to start on October 18 and usher in a change of leadership at the top.

To ensure a smooth transition, the authorities will bar sensitive issues from the media, prevent protesters from entering Beijing, and shut down dozens of factories near the capital to minimise pollution.

China’s big and small screens have been flooded over the years with productions about the country’s wars with Japan in the 1930s and 1940s, but there are few about the Sino-Vietnamese conflict.

Veterans have also repeatedly staged protests in Beijing over the past couple of years, demanding compensation from the government and better social welfare.

Dubbed the Steven Spielberg of China, Feng, 60, reportedly told his production team that he wanted _Youth_ to be a tribute to the soldiers who fought in the border conflict.

“What I am trying to tell the audience is absolutely not about the power of war. I will not praise war. I want the audience to see the cruelty of war,” _Dazhong Daily_ quoted Feng as saying on Friday.















Feng had reportedly given out 10,000 tickets to the movie, urging young people to see _Youth_ with their parents. He hoped young people would not forget the lessons of history, learning to treasure peace and to understand their parents, Feng said on his microblog on Wednesday.

The movie’s withdrawal makes it two years in a row that one of Feng’s films has been pulled from screens for the National Day holidays. _I Am Not Madame Bovary_, a movie about petitioning in China, was withdrawn at the same time last year before being released in November.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> View attachment 427933
> 
> POLICIES & POLITICS
> *China pulls Vietnam border war movie from cinema holiday line-up at last minute*
> Director Feng Xiaogang’s tribute to veterans withdrawn in lead-up to key Communist Party gathering, industry source says
> 
> Choi Chi-yuk
> UPDATED : Sunday, 24 Sep 2017, 8:26PM
> 
> 
> A movie tribute by one of China’s leading directors to Chinese veterans of the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese war has been pulled from cinemas after a last-minute “discussion”.
> 
> Director Feng Xiaogang’s movie _Youth_, or _Fanghua_, was scheduled to be released across China on September 29 in time for the weeklong National Day holiday.
> 
> But in a brief online statement on Sunday, Feng’s production house said the release date would be postponed as a result of “discussions with the film administration bureau and other relevant parties”.
> 
> “The new release date [of _Youth_] will be made public later on. We apologise to cinemas and viewers for any inconvenience caused,” the statement said.
> 
> The movie tells the story of a military dance troupe during the Cultural Revolution and China’s brief border war with Vietnam.
> 
> Ticket sales and promotion for the movie were already under way.
> 
> A movie industry source said the film touched on many sensitive topics and the authorities did not want it aired right before the Communist Party gathered for its five-yearly national congress next month.
> 
> The congress is scheduled to start on October 18 and usher in a change of leadership at the top.
> 
> To ensure a smooth transition, the authorities will bar sensitive issues from the media, prevent protesters from entering Beijing, and shut down dozens of factories near the capital to minimise pollution.
> 
> China’s big and small screens have been flooded over the years with productions about the country’s wars with Japan in the 1930s and 1940s, but there are few about the Sino-Vietnamese conflict.
> 
> Veterans have also repeatedly staged protests in Beijing over the past couple of years, demanding compensation from the government and better social welfare.
> 
> Dubbed the Steven Spielberg of China, Feng, 60, reportedly told his production team that he wanted _Youth_ to be a tribute to the soldiers who fought in the border conflict.
> 
> “What I am trying to tell the audience is absolutely not about the power of war. I will not praise war. I want the audience to see the cruelty of war,” _Dazhong Daily_ quoted Feng as saying on Friday.
> 
> 
> View attachment 427929
> 
> View attachment 427930
> View attachment 427931
> 
> 
> 
> Feng had reportedly given out 10,000 tickets to the movie, urging young people to see _Youth_ with their parents. He hoped young people would not forget the lessons of history, learning to treasure peace and to understand their parents, Feng said on his microblog on Wednesday.
> 
> The movie’s withdrawal makes it two years in a row that one of Feng’s films has been pulled from screens for the National Day holidays. _I Am Not Madame Bovary_, a movie about petitioning in China, was withdrawn at the same time last year before being released in November.


trailer of the film




and interview the director Fang Xiao Gang





through trailer, this film likely is more real than the American film, especially the film " we are soldiers" describes the American soldier like a Rambo, and our soldiers are stupid by suicidal human-wave attacks when Nguyen Huu An is one of the most experienced generals.

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## Viet

Retropolis
*‘The Dragon Lady’: How Madame Nhu helped escalate the Vietnam War*

By Colby Itkowitz September 26 at 7:00 AM




Madame Nhu, left, the de facto first lady of South Vietnam, and her daughter Le Thuy leave the Elizabeth Arden beauty salon on Connecticut Avenue in Washington on Oct. 16, 1963. (William Smith/AP)


During a public relations tour of the United States, Vietnam’s de facto first lady, Madame Nhu, spoke at the National Press Club in Washington. Inside, she taunted and belittled the Kennedy administration, accusing the White House of treason for economic sanctions against South Vietnam. Protesters gathered outside met by a smaller faction of her fans from the American Nazi Party holding signs that read, “Madame Nhu, we like you.” And “JFK salutes red Tito, shuns Madame Nhu.”

It was the fall of 1963, and by then the North Vietnamese communists had been carrying out guerrilla attacks against the South for several years. The United States had already started spraying the chemical Agent Orange in rural areas where guerrillas were thought to be hiding out. The first U.S. soldiers had been killed by the Viet Cong.

Nhu, born Tran Le Xuan, was married to the brother of President Ngo Dinh Diem, a bachelor, and so he entrusted her with all the duties of a first lady. Though she makes only brief appearance in the 10-part documentary on the Vietnam War by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick, she played a significant role in the trajectory of the United States’ involvement in Vietnam.

Elegant and strong-willed, she was a figure of international intrigue in the early 1960s. Unlike America’s first lady, who was demure, classy and media shy, Nhu rarely shied from the spotlight. Both Time and Life magazines featured her on their covers. Jacqueline Kennedy once said Nhu was “everything Jack found unattractive” in a woman, according to the documentary.

By 1963, the Viet Cong was not only waging a war against the South, but the Buddhist majority in the South was also rebelling against the Diem regime. When a Buddhist monk lit himself on fire in protest in the middle of the city, Nhu flippantly said he had been “barbecued” with “imported gasoline,” and offered to supply more fuel for other Buddhists and would stand by “and clap.”

Later, she claimed her words were inspired by a conversation her children had overheard between two Americans in a Saigon snack bar. “I am only a victim of American advice,” she said.

Americans dubbed her “Dragon Lady,” and President John F. Kennedy was said to have called her a “goddamn bitch.” Because of the Buddhist uprising, and Diem’s poor handling of it, the Kennedy administration was losing trust in Diem’s ability to lead such a fractured nation. And Nhu only added to that anxiety.

Nhu irritated the U.S. government by questioning American motives. She referred in one speech to “false brothers” who didn’t understand Diem’s positions, a not-so-veiled reference to the Kennedy White House. She also alleged the U.S. Embassy in Saigon had “threatened and blackmailed” the Vietnamese government in an effort “to shut me up,” to which a State Department spokesman responded, “We don’t wish to comment on Madame Nhu’s utterances, especially in view of the fact that she does not have any official position in the Vietnamese administration.”

During her 1963 U.S. speaking tour, she accused the United States of being soft on communism and presented herself as the victim. She complained that the Kennedy White House, which did not acknowledge her visit, could have shown her “more courtesy.” She made several high-profile appearances, including an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press.” She said America wasn’t as anti-communist as Vietnam and had given in to liberalism, which in her view meant they were, “not red yet, but they are pink.”

The Washington Post described her during her visit as “petite, quick-witted” and remarked on her “long, sharpened red fingernails detracting somewhat from her posture of defenselessness.”

Meanwhile, while Nhu traveled the United States, the Kennedy administration urged the Diem government to make significant changes in how it was running South Vietnam. Eventually, a frustrated Kennedy heeded the advice of State Department officials and let it be known that he did not want to start a coup, but wouldn’t stop one either.

Nhu was in Los Angeles with her daughter when dissident generals launched an attack against the South Vietnamese government on Nov. 1, 1963. Nhu’s husband and President Diem were both killed.

Nhu blamed the United States. “The deaths were murders,” she said, “either with the official or unofficial blessings of the American Government.”

When she left her L.A. hotel, reporters asked her whether she felt defeated. She responded defiantly: “Never! Never! Never!” In a news conference on Nov. 2, 1963, she said those who carried out “such a cruel injustice,” should have to “pay for it.”

Less than three weeks later, Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas. Among the many conspiracy theories around his death is that Nhu had him killed in retaliation. She did send a condolence letter to Jacqueline Kennedy with this cutting line: “I sympathize the more for I understand that that ordeal might seem to you even more unbearable because of your habitually well-sheltered life.”


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## warzone

xiao qi said:


> trailer of the film
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and interview the director Fang Xiao Gang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> through trailer, this film likely is more real than the American film, especially the film " we are soldiers" describes the American soldier like a Rambo, and our soldiers are stupid by suicidal human-wave attacks when Nguyen Huu An is one of the most experienced generals.




It never good for patriotism and glory of country when combat scenes are too realistic, everybody from both side die ugly and no one win. Remember the movie Saving private Ryan, it was a total shock to the viewers because it was the first time the combat scenes was graphic and realistic. During WW2, at one time the US Government shown dead American soldiers in the Pacific and public was sick and they were a dropped in the recruitment centers. Since that failure till today, they stopped showing dead US servicemen.






A photo and a comment of Colonel John Moore who was portrayed in We were soldiers

_An injured North Vietnamese soldier is led from his bunker by soldiers of the U.S. First Cavalry Division. This soldier held up the U.S. advance for one hour with machine-gun fire. He was wounded and captured. 'If he was in the American army', said U.S. Army Colonel John Moore at the time, 'I would recommend him for a medal.'"_

Haha especially those scenes when NVA doing human waves during broad daylight and none of NVA soldiers can’t shot right…. Those combat scenes look so fake.

I never like Colonel John Moore he seem so arrogant and narcissist in interviews. Americans like to brag that they never lost a battle during the Viet Nam war. But how can you lost a battle when you have all the weaponry, a destructive fire power, rapid reinforcement available by choppers, plenty ammunition and supplies, superb medical evacuation & support and endless fire support (from ground, naval and air)? Now try to win a battle with infantry with light and medium weaponry, very little limited fire support (mostly mortars), limited ammunition & supplies, basic medical support and almost zero reinforcement.



madokafc said:


> PSGAT style helmets, new assault Rifle, new carrier vest for plate armor, new webbing and chest rig (compared to old commies style), a good progress indeed for the land forces. If Vietnam ever need it, I am sure, Indonesia can supply quality made infantry gears and tools in large number



Why Vietnam will need Indonesia to produce those basic military gears? it not like you need high tech and advanced manufacturing industry to produce webbing, helmet, flak jackets… You suggesting VN manufacturing industry is like at the same level as East Timor or something… VN already producing all those military gears, they just need to speed up the production, remember we talking in hundred thousands pieces... No need to hurry, I guess the budget is going to the air force and navy in priority.


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## Nike

warzone said:


> It never good for patriotism and glory of country when combat scenes are too realistic, everybody from both side die ugly and no one win. Remember the movie Saving private Ryan, it was a total shock to the viewers because it was the first time the combat scenes was graphic and realistic. During WW2, at one time the US Government shown dead American soldiers in the Pacific and public was sick and they were a dropped in the recruitment centers. Since that failure till today, they stopped showing dead US servicemen.
> 
> View attachment 428250
> 
> 
> A photo and a comment of Colonel John Moore who was portrayed in We were soldiers
> 
> _An injured North Vietnamese soldier is led from his bunker by soldiers of the U.S. First Cavalry Division. This soldier held up the U.S. advance for one hour with machine-gun fire. He was wounded and captured. 'If he was in the American army', said U.S. Army Colonel John Moore at the time, 'I would recommend him for a medal.'"_
> 
> Haha especially those scenes when NVA doing human waves during broad daylight and none of NVA soldiers can’t shot right…. Those combat scenes look so fake.
> 
> I never like Colonel John Moore he seem so arrogant and narcissist in interviews. Americans like to brag that they never lost a battle during the Viet Nam war. But how can you lost a battle when you have all the weaponry, a destructive fire power, rapid reinforcement available by choppers, plenty ammunition and supplies, superb medical evacuation & support and endless fire support (from ground, naval and air)? Now try to win a battle with infantry with light and medium weaponry, very little limited fire support (mostly mortars), limited ammunition & supplies, basic medical support and almost zero reinforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> Why Vietnam will need Indonesia to produce those basic military gears? it not like you need high tech and advanced manufacturing industry to produce webbing, helmet, flak jackets… You suggesting VN manufacturing industry is like at the same level as East Timor or something… VN already producing all those military gears, they just need to speed up the production, remember we talking in hundred thousands pieces... No need to hurry, I guess the budget is going to the air force and navy in priority.



Yeah yeah, whatever


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## Viet

warzone said:


> It never good for patriotism and glory of country when combat scenes are too realistic, everybody from both side die ugly and no one win. Remember the movie Saving private Ryan, it was a total shock to the viewers because it was the first time the combat scenes was graphic and realistic. During WW2, at one time the US Government shown dead American soldiers in the Pacific and public was sick and they were a dropped in the recruitment centers. Since that failure till today, they stopped showing dead US servicemen.
> 
> View attachment 428250
> 
> 
> A photo and a comment of Colonel John Moore who was portrayed in We were soldiers
> 
> _An injured North Vietnamese soldier is led from his bunker by soldiers of the U.S. First Cavalry Division. This soldier held up the U.S. advance for one hour with machine-gun fire. He was wounded and captured. 'If he was in the American army', said U.S. Army Colonel John Moore at the time, 'I would recommend him for a medal.'"_
> 
> Haha especially those scenes when NVA doing human waves during broad daylight and none of NVA soldiers can’t shot right…. Those combat scenes look so fake.
> 
> I never like Colonel John Moore he seem so arrogant and narcissist in interviews. Americans like to brag that they never lost a battle during the Viet Nam war. But how can you lost a battle when you have all the weaponry, a destructive fire power, rapid reinforcement available by choppers, plenty ammunition and supplies, superb medical evacuation & support and endless fire support (from ground, naval and air)? Now try to win a battle with infantry with light and medium weaponry, very little limited fire support (mostly mortars), limited ammunition & supplies, basic medical support and almost zero reinforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> Why Vietnam will need Indonesia to produce those basic military gears? it not like you need high tech and advanced manufacturing industry to produce webbing, helmet, flak jackets… You suggesting VN manufacturing industry is like at the same level as East Timor or something… VN already producing all those military gears, they just need to speed up the production, remember we talking in hundred thousands pieces... No need to hurry, I guess the budget is going to the air force and navy in priority.


Saving private Ryan is a good made film because it has a good story with realistic scenes. It is not as brutal as it may seem, least a propaganda film.

Vietnam surely can produce military clothing and make small stuffs such as rattling cannon AK-630M but we lack capacity of building sophisticated things as warships, planes and tanks. And many more others. Seeking partners, buying technology and building R&D at home is the way to go.






Ah..Funny pictures for enemy spy satellites


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## xiao qi

warzone said:


> It never good for patriotism and glory of country when combat scenes are too realistic, everybody from both side die ugly and no one win. Remember the movie Saving private Ryan, it was a total shock to the viewers because it was the first time the combat scenes was graphic and realistic. During WW2, at one time the US Government shown dead American soldiers in the Pacific and public was sick and they were a dropped in the recruitment centers. Since that failure till today, they stopped showing dead US servicemen.
> 
> View attachment 428250
> 
> 
> A photo and a comment of Colonel John Moore who was portrayed in We were soldiers
> 
> _An injured North Vietnamese soldier is led from his bunker by soldiers of the U.S. First Cavalry Division. This soldier held up the U.S. advance for one hour with machine-gun fire. He was wounded and captured. 'If he was in the American army', said U.S. Army Colonel John Moore at the time, 'I would recommend him for a medal.'"_
> 
> Haha especially those scenes when NVA doing human waves during broad daylight and none of NVA soldiers can’t shot right…. Those combat scenes look so fake.
> 
> I never like Colonel John Moore he seem so arrogant and narcissist in interviews. Americans like to brag that they never lost a battle during the Viet Nam war. But how can you lost a battle when you have all the weaponry, a destructive fire power, rapid reinforcement available by choppers, plenty ammunition and supplies, superb medical evacuation & support and endless fire support (from ground, naval and air)? Now try to win a battle with infantry with light and medium weaponry, very little limited fire support (mostly mortars), limited ammunition & supplies, basic medical support and almost zero reinforcement.
> 
> 
> 
> Why Vietnam will need Indonesia to produce those basic military gears? it not like you need high tech and advanced manufacturing industry to produce webbing, helmet, flak jackets… You suggesting VN manufacturing industry is like at the same level as East Timor or something… VN already producing all those military gears, they just need to speed up the production, remember we talking in hundred thousands pieces... No need to hurry, I guess the budget is going to the air force and navy in priority.




In fact, in the battle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ia_Drang where John Moore attended, I hear our veterans said from the situation of battle, Vietnamese soldier realized they could fight well against American and they are not formidable as people always think. My neighbor is a VC, he fought more than 10 years in jung, he said they(VC) didn't fear to confront American, from what he said, he supposed the new Zealand soldier is really good, maybe it is only his opinion.

One question on Quora : 
*Is it true that Vietnam learns about guerilla warfare tactics from Indonesia?*
Dithia Sofyan
No, it isn’t. This is a very popular misunderstanding in Indonesia.

Vietnam have long history with guerilla style warfare, first happen in war against ancient Chinese dynasty of Han in 200s BC. They also fought the Mongols with similar strategy. Later in modern times, Vietnam independence group Viet Minh fight the Japanese and the French using guerilla warfare. So the Vietnamese already well versed in this kind of strategy.

What is true is Vietnam military leaders use* a book *wrote by a top Indonesian guerilla fighter (served in Indonesian Army’s Siliwangi Division on the War of Independence against the Dutch from 1945–1949) named General Abdul Haris Nasution. The book was written in 1953 after the General was “set aside” because his involvement in an attempted coup against President Soekarno in 1952.





This book called “The Fundamentals of Guerilla Warfare” (Indonesian: _Pokok-Pokok Gerilya_).





This book is *a part of a set of literatures* used for reference on the concept of guerilla warfare in *modern times*. Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap said this book is one of the most important literature on this topic *at the time*, equal with Mao Ze Dong’s “On Guerilla Warfare”.





Not just Vietnamese, this book also became a reference in West Point Academy.


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## warzone

madokafc said:


> Yeah yeah, whatever



When you have nothing to say, just don’t write anything. It’s just silly writing meaningless words as a respond



xiao qi said:


> In fact, in the battle where John Moore attended, I hear our veterans said from the situation of battle, Vietnamese soldier realized they could fight well against American and they are not formidable as people always think. My neighbor is a VC, he fought more than 10 years in jung, he said they(VC) didn't fear to confront American, from what he said, he supposed the new Zealand soldier is really good, maybe it is only his opinion.




The small contingent of New Zealand troops were integrated into Australian battalions. Here one quote that resume why the Aussies troop were better than the American

One former Viet Cong leader is quoted as saying; "Worse than the Americans were the Australians. The Americans style was to hit us, then call for planes and artillery. Our response was to break contact and disappear if we could...The Australians were more patient than the Americans, better guerrilla fighters, better at ambushes. They liked to stay with us instead of calling in the planes. We were more afraid of their style."

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

ASIA
*‘The Vietnam War’ Draws Muted Official Response in Hanoi*

Last Updated: September 24, 2017 8:09 AM





Ken Burns participates in the "The Vietnam War" panel during the PBS portion of the 2017 Summer Television Critics Association meeting at the Beverly Hilton Hotel in Beverly Hills, Calif., July 30, 2017

WASHINGTON — 
Until this week, the Vietnamese government has remained silent about the release of _The Vietnam War_, which premiered in the U.S. after a big buildup.

In Vietnam’s lively online sphere, many commentators speculated that authorities had remained silent about the series because it presented what the government considered sensitive material about towering Communist Party figures, such as Ho Chi Minh and General Vo Nguyen Giap.

The 10-part documentary film series by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick, which premiered September 17, covers the war’s main events and focuses on the experiences of Americans and Vietnamese during the war. American broadcaster PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) is streaming it online with Vietnamese subtitles.






FILE - Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang speaks to reporters during a regular press briefing in Hanoi, Vietnam, Aug. 3, 2017.


On Wednesday, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang issued a statement saying, “The Anti-America War of the Vietnamese people was a righteous revolution that mobilized the entire nation, and was supported wholeheartedly by friends and people worldwide.

“Positive developments in the comprehensive partnership between Vietnam and the United States are the results of great efforts by the two counties,” Hang continued. “The policy of Vietnam is to put the past behind us, overcome differences, promote our mutual interests and look forward to the future.”

She added, “I personally hope that American people and filmmakers understand the righteousness of the revolution as well as Vietnam’s goodwill.”

Like the government, the Vietnamese press has remained muted in its response to the well-reviewed documentary that has been a major event in the United States.

Only the _Thanh Nien_ newspaper has covered the effort by Burns and Novick, reporting last month that the “U.S. consulate general in Ho Chi Minh City would hold a screening and discussion session” based on a 90-minute synopsis of the documentary. Vietnam’s top daily added that "film director and producer Lynn Novick is here in Vietnam to meet and discuss with the guests and the audience during the screening."

One of the people who attended the screening, a former journalist, wrote on Facebook that after the screening, another attendee, a young woman, asked Novick why in the excerpts “do I only see characters from North Vietnam being interviewed? Will people from the South be interviewed?”






FILE - Ken Burns, from left, Trent Reznor, Atticus Ross and Lynn Novick speak at PBS' "The Vietnam War" panel at the 2017 Television Critics Association press tour in Pasadena, Calif.

The journalist noted that Novick said people from the South had been interviewed and “that will be evident when you see the complete documentary being shown on the PBS website."

The former journalist, who once worked for the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), added on Facebook, “Lynn’s answer raised an uneasy suspicion about whether the shown clip was heavily censored before it was screened to young people, who really wanted to understand the Vietnam War beyond the simple division over red and yellow flags [of the current and former regime respectively].”

About 70 percent of Vietnam’s 96.1 million citizens were born after the April 1975 fall of Saigon.


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## TaiShang

*Chinese top political advisor stresses exchanges with Vietnam Fatherland Front*
Xinhua, September 26, 2017

Chinese top political advisor Yu Zhengsheng Tuesday met with Vice President of the Vietnam Fatherland Front (VFF) Central Committee Truong Thi Ngoc Anh.

"China always attaches importance to its ties with Vietnam," said Yu, chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).

He said leaders of both countries have met several times this year and reached important consensus on comprehensive cooperation.

*"China is willing to make joint efforts with Vietnam to strengthen strategic communication, deepen pragmatic cooperation, properly handle differences and promote bilateral ties to a healthy and steady development," Yu said.*

Yu said the CPPCC is ready to enhance exchanges with the VFF, share experience in participating in and deliberating state affairs, and play a positive role in advancing friendly cooperation between the two countries and people-to-people exchanges.

Truong Thi Ngoc Anh said the VFF was ready to work with the CPPCC to boost the comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation between the two countries.


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## warzone

GS Zhou said:


> I can tell you the vulnerabilities and weaknesses of PLA:
> *- slow progress of the J20 program;* we need to wait till 2020 to have 100 J20s in service, only half of the size of the F22 fleet, needless to say the growing inventory of F35!
> *- slow progress of the carrier program; *PLAN will have only two carriers by 2020 (Liaoning + Type 002 that still in building progress); 5~6 carriers by 2030. Even if the 2030 target achieved as plan, it is still only half of the size of US Navy. And the US carriers are all nuclear powered + catapult-assisted take off, which makes the China/US gap even larger;
> *- slow progress of the destroyers program. *PLAN will have only 20~30 modern destroyers (052C, 052D, 055) by 2020; but US Navy has close to 100 units!! (AB class + Ticonderoga + Zumwalt)
> *- slow progress of the stealth bomber H20 program. *I guess PLAAF will have the first operational H20 in between 2025 to 2030. But US had its very first B2 in 1990!! Sh!t, a 40year gap!!!
> *- slow progress of the fixed-wing plane program! *Sh!t, this is the program that I hate most!! We've been waiting for it for toooo much time. Without the fixed wing plane platform, it is impossible for PLAN/AF to have suitable carrier-borne AEW, or anti-sub plane.
> *- slow progress of the nuclear subs. *Compared to the US Virginia Class or Ohio Class, the PLAN nuclear sub fleet makes me unhappy again!!
> *- Insufficient investment on defense. *China spends only 1.9% of the GDP on defense, the investment intensity is toooo small. To be honest I feel envy to Vietnam, because Vietnam spends 2.4% of the GDP on defense. This makes me envy!



I like your opinion about PLA weaknesses: slow progress in military technology and lack defense budget. But let me give you my honest opinion, weaponry is an important factor to win battle but the decisive one is the human factor. People (that fellow PLA modernization) should have a closer look on how the Saudi army are performing in Yemen, it will give you another opinion about money can’t buy competent, courage, operational readiness , combat experience, ect. During military training, soldiers look good and we can fix errors. But in a real battlefield with anarchy, destruction and blood it’s another world of pain and sadness.

The Saudis army are doing a horrible job in Yemen, despite having a huge military budget (3rd in the world just behind China), have all the modern weaponry from the West (better in quality and performance than what the PLA have), also trained by the Americans and they have U.S. and French military personnel providing coordination and support for currently Yemen operations… And still the Saudis army perform poorly against a ragtag undernourished lightly armed Houthis rebels (in the poorest middle east country) . Can you imagine if the Saudi army will have to fight a REAL capable army (like the Iranian army or Israeli)?

The dead toll and huge lost of equipments don’t lie about their mediocrity (just go look at videoclips in the internet), the fully equipped and modern Saudis are fighting like a bunch of amateurs and prone to mistakes (like amateurs). Money can’t buy a victory (but it may help tho) but history have shown that when you fight against a determined and resilient enemy it need a lot more than weaponry and money to defeat them.



View attachment 428776


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## Nike

Albeit having the third largest defense budget, Saudi military spent much of their money on charity and influence on their neighbor. Egypt and Libanon is one of their largest recipients, not to mention Saudi and their gulf allies notoriously using mercenaries forces to do their frontline duty. What can you expect from merc whom loyalties lies on money? 

The same cant be said against competent Armies from Asian and Far East region, their modernization drive is paralel with their ever increasingly progress in HDI and Nationalism sentiment


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Albeit having the third largest defense budget, Saudi military spent much of their money on charity and influence on their neighbor. Egypt and Libanon is one of their largest recipients, not to mention Saudi and their gulf allies notoriously using mercenaries forces to do their frontline duty. What can you expect from merc whom loyalties lies on money?
> 
> The same cant be said against competent Armies from Asian and Far East region, their modernization drive is paralel with their ever increasingly progress in HDI and Nationalism sentiment


The Saudi have more planes than pilots more tanks than drivers more weapons than men in service, however everyone waits they win a war. Have they ever proved they can fight?



xiao qi said:


> One question on Quora :
> *Is it true that Vietnam learns about guerilla warfare tactics from Indonesia?*
> Dithia Sofyan
> No, it isn’t. This is a very popular misunderstanding in Indonesia.
> 
> Vietnam have long history with guerilla style warfare, first happen in war against ancient Chinese dynasty of Han in 200s BC. They also fought the Mongols with similar strategy. Later in modern times, Vietnam independence group Viet Minh fight the Japanese and the French using guerilla warfare. So the Vietnamese already well versed in this kind of strategy.
> 
> What is true is Vietnam military leaders use* a book *wrote by a top Indonesian guerilla fighter (served in Indonesian Army’s Siliwangi Division on the War of Independence against the Dutch from 1945–1949) named General Abdul Haris Nasution. The book was written in 1953 after the General was “set aside” because his involvement in an attempted coup against President Soekarno in 1952.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This book called “The Fundamentals of Guerilla Warfare” (Indonesian: _Pokok-Pokok Gerilya_).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This book is *a part of a set of literatures* used for reference on the concept of guerilla warfare in *modern times*. Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap said this book is one of the most important literature on this topic *at the time*, equal with Mao Ze Dong’s “On Guerilla Warfare”.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not just Vietnamese, this book also became a reference in West Point Academy.


Our conflict with the Chinese goes back to a time nobody can remember more 2,200 years ago. Being a weaker party we have resorted to different tactics and strategies some people will call Guerilla warfare today. Maybe we did use a time machine, travelling to the future buying the indo best seller "how to win against a superpower" at a bookstore and jumped back to the past to beat the Chinese. Or France or Americans. I wonder why the French and the US military central commands failed to buy the book?

If the indo book lists all ingredients how to conduct warfare, the Chinese the French the Americans could spare $10 to buy the book and develop counter strategy. After crushing Vietnam and enslaving the Viet people, the trio China France America write the best seller "how to win against VN with 10 bucks" or "how to cure stupidity".

The story reminds me of people writing books how to become millionaire or how to educate children without having own kids and being dirty poor.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> The Saudi have more planes than pilots more tanks than drivers more weapons than men in service, however everyone waits they win a war. Have they ever proved they can fight?
> 
> 
> Our conflict with the Chinese goes back to a time nobody can remember more 2,200 years ago. Being a weaker party we have resorted to different tactics and strategies some people will call Guerilla warfare today. Maybe we did use a time machine, travelling to the future buying the indo best seller "how to win against a superpower" at a bookstore and jumped back to the past to beat the Chinese. Or France or Americans. I wonder why the French and the US military central commands failed to buy the book?
> 
> If the indo book lists all ingredients how to conduct warfare, the Chinese the French the Americans could spare $10 to buy the book and develop counter strategy. After crushing Vietnam and enslaving the Viet people, the trio China France America write the best seller "how to win against VN with 10 bucks" or "how to cure stupidity".
> 
> The story reminds me of people writing books how to become millionaire or how to educate children without having own kids and being dirty poor.



Have you read his post? Spare me your idiocy. No one called Nasution books is influencing your historical battles against China.


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Have you read his post? Spare me your idiocy. No one called Nasution books is influencing your historical battles against China.


"his" post? Sorry sis, it is "her" post. Yes I read it. You see I am smart


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## terranMarine

I believe that monkey wants to compare China with Saudi Arabia army. Seeing how badly Saudis are performing against Yemen, he's implying China would suffer the same fate in a war with Vietnam.


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> I believe that monkey wants to compare China with Saudi Arabia army. Seeing how badly Saudis are performing against Yemen, he's implying China would suffer the same fate in a war with Vietnam.


I suggest you behalve a bit. what´s the point shouting m here m there?

First, in nowhere you were compared to the Saudi. I will be happy if our army has as much monies as the Arabs. Second, in contrast to your belief, a war with China is the last thing we want on earth. War for what reason? the 17th? People get bored.

Nobody wants to put you down. Remember? No joke. Not long ago, when paying tributes our envoys said to the son of heaven or his representatives: "you are the greatest!", "you are the best!", "the universe belongs to you!", "the concubines are the most beautiful!".

Reactions: Like Like:
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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> The Saudi have more planes than pilots more tanks than drivers more weapons than men in service, however everyone waits they win a war. Have they ever proved they can fight?
> 
> 
> Our conflict with the Chinese goes back to a time nobody can remember more 2,200 years ago. Being a weaker party we have resorted to different tactics and strategies some people will call Guerilla warfare today. Maybe we did use a time machine, travelling to the future buying the indo best seller "how to win against a superpower" at a bookstore and jumped back to the past to beat the Chinese. Or France or Americans. I wonder why the French and the US military central commands failed to buy the book?
> 
> If the indo book lists all ingredients how to conduct warfare, the Chinese the French the Americans could spare $10 to buy the book and develop counter strategy. After crushing Vietnam and enslaving the Viet people, the trio China France America write the best seller "how to win against VN with 10 bucks" or "how to cure stupidity".
> 
> The story reminds me of people writing books how to become millionaire or how to educate children without having own kids and being dirty poor.


 
This is an answer I copied on quora, I think It is suitable to post in here because It relates to our military part and history. I don't know the credibility of his post when he said Vo Nguyen Giap read the Indonesian book. In Vietnam, I don't know about that and I believe a lot of Vietnamese like me, of course, It is because this information is not important with Vietnamese so we don't care. But I also guess this information is real, not fake. I also feel it is not offensive. If Vo Nguyen Giap gives the compliment for this book which is worthy based his opinion. guerrilla warfare is not a product was created by Indonesian but they are a part of the development same as Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese...etc..We learn from them and applied. It is a good thing. But I saw the confusion from Indonesian when someone said they taught Vietnamese how to fight in guerrilla warfare, but It is not really important. People need something to proud about nation, not blameworthy


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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> I suggest you behalve a bit. what´s the point shouting m here m there?
> 
> First, in nowhere you were compared to the Saudi. I will be happy if our army has as much monies as the Arabs. Second, in contrast to your belief, a war with China is the last thing we want on earth. War for what reason? the 17th? People get bored.
> 
> Nobody wants to put you down. Remember? No joke. Not long ago, when paying tributes our envoys said to the son of heaven or his representatives: "you are the greatest!", "you are the best!", "the universe belongs to you!", "the concubines are the most beautiful!".



You suggest nothing. The one who is part of this monkey business is you as well. Your monkey comrade did not say it explicitly but i'm sure he thought China is comparable to Saudi Arabia. For your sake ofcourse Vietnam better not provoke China to the point of military conflict. I find it extremely amusing how some of you guys looking down on the PLA. Sometimes i wonder perhaps a war is good thing, otherwise slumdogs and monkeys never respect China's military might. China could have a war recently but too bad the slumdogs were too scared after seeing our missiles headed to Tibet. Didn't you say China cancelled the war with India? LoL i bet you were dying to see a war between China and India so Viets could analyze the war.  I wonder how your Indian friends think of your suggestion of the PLA slaughtering slumdogs.


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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> You suggest nothing. The one who is part of this monkey business is you as well. Your monkey comrade did not say it explicitly but i'm sure he thought China is comparable to Saudi Arabia. For your sake ofcourse Vietnam better not provoke China to the point of military conflict. I find it extremely amusing how some of you guys looking down on the PLA. Sometimes i wonder perhaps a war is good thing, otherwise slumdogs and monkeys never respect China's military might. China could have a war recently but too bad the slumdogs were too scared after seeing our missiles headed to Tibet. Didn't you say China cancelled the war with India? LoL i bet you were dying to see a war between China and India so Viets could analyze the war.  I wonder how your Indian friends think of your suggestion of the PLA slaughtering slumdogs.


China foreign minister Wang Yi speaks before UN assembly of Chinese people having no genes of aggression but his country policy speaks another language and you especially represent china ugly face. Feeling no shame threatening your neighbor with what your empty bragging "military might"? Stick your military might into elsewhere!

You missed so many chances to prove you can fight. If you were successful, the northern barbaric armies as the Mongolian and Manchu would not have invaded Vietnam using china as springboard after they made you to slaves. What's the point for you to pick vietnam as enemy? How's about the Japanese or the Russians?

You shouldn't make Chinese people looking bad in the world. This is an international forum. Many people outside China read your ugly posts.



xiao qi said:


> This is an answer I copied on quora, I think It is suitable to post in here because It relates to our military part and history. I don't know the credibility of his post when he said Vo Nguyen Giap read the Indonesian book. In Vietnam, I don't know about that and I believe a lot of Vietnamese like me, of course, It is because this information is not important with Vietnamese so we don't care. But I also guess this information is real, not fake. I also feel it is not offensive. If Vo Nguyen Giap gives the compliment for this book which is worthy based his opinion. guerrilla warfare is not a product was created by Indonesian but they are a part of the development same as Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese...etc..We learn from them and applied. It is a good thing. But I saw the confusion from Indonesian when someone said they taught Vietnamese how to fight in guerrilla warfare, but It is not really important. People need something to proud about nation, not blameworthy


Sis it is ok to post anything here including the indo book. No problem. But look, nobody needs to have an IQ of 150 to understand: Fighting on battlefield is not like cooking a dish where you only need to buy all ingredients at the nearest supermarket and make it into a perfect meal.

Rather it is more like you get a Nobel prize for your book telling you have discovered a medicine that can cure AIDS.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## warzone

terranMarine said:


> You suggest nothing. The one who is part of this monkey business is you as well. Your monkey comrade did not say it explicitly but i'm sure he thought China is comparable to Saudi Arabia. For your sake ofcourse Vietnam better not provoke China to the point of military conflict. I find it extremely amusing how some of you guys looking down on the PLA. Sometimes i wonder perhaps a war is good thing, otherwise slumdogs and monkeys never respect China's military might. China could have a war recently but too bad the slumdogs were too scared after seeing our missiles headed to Tibet. Didn't you say China cancelled the war with India? LoL i bet you were dying to see a war between China and India so Viets could analyze the war.  I wonder how your Indian friends think of your suggestion of the PLA slaughtering slumdogs.



From now, can I call you tough guy @terranMarine because you talk loud, insulting people and threatening everyone who doesn’t think like you. I thank God every day to be alive because I am a coward behind a laptop, and meeting you face to face may end my life because a tough guy like you @terranMarine mean business when you threatening . I am really scare of you and want to thank you tough guy @terranMarine to spare my miserable life and from now on I will do whatever you say. Also I am 100% sure that you tough guy @terranMarine talk tough in real life just as in this forum and I also 100% sure that tough guy @terranMarine say monkey to every single Viet he see face to to face because tough guy do what it say, right tough guy @terranMarine because if you don't then you are not that tough after all........ (now replace tough guy with PLA ….lol )

If you are so sure 100% about PLA success in operational capability in real combat situation with new toys weaponry, are you willing to bet your own life tough guy @terranMarine if PLA fail or goof(single bullet to your brain or full bleach syringue straight to your heart…tough talk tough challenge for a tough guy like @terranMarine )?

And we all remember when the glorious PLA went to combat last time and it was a decisive victory…1989 in Tianamen square against ferocious unarmed students ……By the way did you know those PLA troops who did the killing were troops based on Vietnam border (they were the most experienced PLA troop at that time ) and were transported all the way from Vietnam border to the capital to do the dirty job because troop based in Beijing were unreliable….. I bet you didn’t know this....hahaha. Competent and liability can’t be brought with pesos tough guy @terranMarine

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## terranMarine

Viet said:


> China foreign minister Wang Yi speaks before UN assembly of Chinese people having no genes of aggression but his country policy speaks another language and you especially represent china ugly face. Feeling no shame threatening your neighbor with what your empty bragging "military might"? Stick your military might into elsewhere!
> 
> You missed so many chances to prove you can fight. If you were successful, the northern barbaric armies as the Mongolian and Manchu would not have invaded Vietnam using china as springboard after they made you to slaves. What's the point for you to pick vietnam as enemy? How's about the Japanese or the Russians?
> 
> You shouldn't make Chinese people looking bad in the world. This is an international forum. Many people outside China read your ugly posts.



The one who has no shame is you. You are so obsessed with China you constantly keeps talking about China. 
Do you see Chinese members talk about Vietnam in China related topics? Your constant bragging only makes you look like a pathetic little sick man of Asia. You are some sick mofo Viet who fears and full of jealousy of China. By trying to talk like some brave guy you want to show the members how strong Vietnam is. What a disgusting behavior. Learn from Gambit, he doesn't talk much about Vietnam because he knows what kind of a sh!tty country it really is, therefor he rather be associated with America as an American citizen. If you don't want to create bad image for Vietnam better stop continue talking trash about China. It makes you and Vietnam look really bad. Nobody on this planet view monkey army stronger than the PLA, it's called a wet dream. Vietnam shall ALWAYS remain in our shadow, ALWAYS.



warzone said:


> From now, can I call you tough guy @terranMarine because you talk loud, insulting people and threatening everyone who doesn’t think like you. I thank God every day to be alive because I am a coward behind a laptop, and meeting you face to face may end my life because a tough guy like you @terranMarine mean business when you threatening . I am really scare of you and want to thank you tough guy @terranMarine to spare my miserable life and from now on I will do whatever you say. Also I am 100% sure that you tough guy @terranMarine talk tough in real life just as in this forum and I also 100% sure that tough guy @terranMarine say monkey to every single Viet he see face to to face because tough guy do what it say, right tough guy @terranMarine because if you don't then you are not that tough after all........ (now replace tough guy with PLA ….lol )
> 
> If you are so sure 100% about PLA success in operational capability in real combat situation with new toys weaponry, are you willing to bet your own life tough guy @terranMarine if PLA fail or goof(single bullet to your brain or full bleach syringue straight to your heart…tough talk tough challenge for a tough guy like @terranMarine )?
> 
> And we all remember when the glorious PLA went to combat last time and it was a decisive victory…1989 in Tianamen square against ferocious unarmed students ……By the way did you know those PLA troops who did the killing were troops based on Vietnam border (they were the most experienced PLA troop at that time ) and were transported all the way from Vietnam border to the capital to do the dirty job because troop based in Beijing were unreliable….. I bet you didn’t know this....hahaha. Competent and liability can’t be brought with pesos tough guy @terranMarine



Tell your vietcong government to provoke China so we can have a war, weak man.


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## warzone

terranMarine said:


> The one who has no shame is you. You are so obsessed with China you constantly keeps talking about China.
> Do you see Chinese members talk about Vietnam in China related topics? Your constant bragging only makes you look like a pathetic little sick man of Asia. You are some sick mofo Viet who fears and full of jealousy of China. By trying to talk like some brave guy you want to show the members how strong Vietnam is. What a disgusting behavior. Learn from Gambit, he doesn't talk much about Vietnam because he knows what kind of a sh!tty country it really is, therefor he rather be associated with America as an American citizen. If you don't want to create bad image for Vietnam better stop continue talking trash about China. It makes you and Vietnam look really bad. Nobody on this planet view monkey army stronger than the PLA, it's called a wet dream. Vietnam shall ALWAYS remain in our shadow, ALWAYS.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell your vietcong government to provoke China so we can have a war, weak man.



hahahaahha Viet Nam is going to attack China,,ok is so obvious tough guy @terranMarine ,,,... thank God we have barriers to prevent dumb people like you to go further in military and civilian ...obviously you are not the brightest light around...lol

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## Viet

terranMarine said:


> Give it your best shot filthy monkey, the day China f*cks Vietnam its the day we are gonna laugh. Try drilling oil in that area again and China will declare war.


little clown like you will hide in the toilette when the first shot is fallen.

you missed the news. the government chief has recently met with the Spanish Ambassador to Vietnam Maria Jesus Figa Lopez-Palop (beautiful name!). I expect the drilling will resume soon. We want to increase our crude oil reserves from the current 600 million tons. the second highest level in East Asia.

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## TenLua

terranMarine said:


> The one who has no shame is you. You are so obsessed with China you constantly keeps talking about China.
> Do you see Chinese members talk about Vietnam in China related topics? Your constant bragging only makes you look like a pathetic little sick man of Asia. You are some sick mofo Viet who fears and full of jealousy of China. By trying to talk like some brave guy you want to show the members how strong Vietnam is. What a disgusting behavior. Learn from Gambit, he doesn't talk much about Vietnam because he knows what kind of a sh!tty country it really is, therefor he rather be associated with America as an American citizen. If you don't want to create bad image for Vietnam better stop continue talking trash about China. It makes you and Vietnam look really bad. Nobody on this planet view monkey army stronger than the PLA, it's called a wet dream. Vietnam shall ALWAYS remain in our shadow, ALWAYS.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell your vietcong government to provoke China so we can have a war, weak man.



"The one who has no shame is you. You are so obsessed with China you constantly keeps talking about China. "

Says the guy who comes to a Viet forum because he's insecure about his nationality LOl dude you're dumb a sshit. Just look at the shit that you say. Vietnam will own China in a month of fighting LOLOL


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## Viet

K17 rifle for the infantry 






Satellite controlled surveillance drone Geoscan 101












New artillery shells


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## Aqsuperman

Hey, hey come on, people. Why do you have to pay attention to that guy? He is like a little puppy run around barking for a fight. In the last time, he even think that typhoon is Western propaganda and only coward seek refuge from it while more than 200 of his countrymen end up drowning. Do you all even think that the guy has the same brain comprehension like our lol? Leave him, the only thing that brought meaning to his pathetic life would be to find every bits and pieces of info about other countries submission to China no matter how crappy or unreliable they are. Without that, he probably kill himself a long time ago. 

Back to the idea of the thread. Super nice and up close picture of the VPN Gepard on board the Rolldock

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## Viet

Can't wait for the delivery of the first batch of T90S tanks. The firepower of 125mm main cannon is reportedly more powerful than of US Abraham tank.

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## Viet

Coastal defense with artillery


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## Viet

Despite fresh tension with Vietnam, China communist leader Xi Jinping says he will attend the high level meeting in Da Nang city. For the occasion, a 5-star hotel with the name "Peace" is opened for the Chinese guests. Maybe Xi will take the chance to swim on the top of the hotel.


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## Viet

For someone who is interested of history. Meeting between members of Vietnam and Chinese military general staffs at the two country border. Not very far from Lai Chau at Vietnamese side. In 1979 the 600,000 men PLA army started the war by entering multiple points. However their real intention was camouflaging the two major pinzer movement attacks by the western flank at Lang Son and eastern flank at Lai Chau with the aim to encircle the main force of Vietnamese army stationed in the northern front. Chinese communist comrades realized too late their Vietnamese brothers knew the attack plan.

One of the most worthless wars in the human history. worthless bloodshed.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Coastal defense with artillery
> 
> 
> View attachment 429146
> View attachment 429142
> View attachment 429143
> View attachment 429144
> View attachment 429147
> 
> View attachment 429145



Any naval ship worth its weight in salt can strike from a range those artillery cannot reach. I really do not see the point of having those artillery pieces as coastal defense.



Viet said:


> For someone who is interested of history. Meeting between members of Vietnam and Chinese military general staffs at the two country border. Not very far from Lai Chau at Vietnamese side. In 1979 the 600,000 men PLA army started the war by entering multiple points. However their real intention was camouflaging the two major pinzer movement attacks by the western flank at Lang Son and eastern flank at Lai Chau with the aim to encircle the main force of Vietnamese army stationed in the northern front. Chinese communist comrades realized too late their Vietnamese brothers knew the attack plan.
> 
> One of the most worthless wars in the human history. worthless bloodshed.
> 
> View attachment 429207
> 
> View attachment 429210



Chinese uniform looks more refined.


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## Viet

*Korean conflict to impact Vietnam, Japan most, says Moody's*

ECONOMY
Tuesday, 3 Oct 2017






In this photo provided by South Korea Defense Ministry, a Hyunmoo II ballistic missile is fired during an exercise at an undisclosed location, Sept. 4, 2017.


KUALA LUMPUR: A military conflict on the Korean peninsula will impact South Korea, Japan and Vietnam and a more limited effect on Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan, says Moody's Investors Service.

In its report* "Sovereigns -- Global, Vietnam and Japan most exposed to credit impact of a potential Korean conflict"* issued on Tuesday, it said uncertainty over the potential for military conflict on the Korean peninsula is rising with the increasingly strident rhetoric.

“A conflict would have a high credit impact on Korea (Aa2 stable). Aside from Korea, Japan (A1 stable) and Vietnam (B1 positive) are the most exposed sovereigns,” it said.

Moody's said among the major potential protagonists, the broader implications for the US (Aaa stable) and China (A1 stable) would be relatively limited.

For the US, a sharp lift in military spending would add to and bring forward fiscal pressure, weighing on its fiscal metrics. By contrast, Japan's growth would likely slow markedly and this would jeopardise a durable stabilisation in government debt.

With Vietnam, the loss of exports to South Korea and supply chain disruptions would weaken the Southeast Asian sovereign's credit profile.

“With an already elevated debt burden (52.6% of GDP in 2016), the Vietnamese government may not have the space to buffer the economic shock without a material weakening of fiscal strength,” it said.

In the report, Moody's focuses on the credit implications of a broad and protracted conflict. In the case of a short and contained event, the effects for global sovereigns would likely be limited.

The report considers the credit impacts of a major conflict on sovereigns other than Korea through the economic effects of lower exports to Korea, disrupted global chains, the economic and fiscal impacts of prolonged lower LNG and oil prices, and liquidity pressures due to refinancing difficulties in turbulent financial markets. It follows previous analysis of the implications of a conflict for Korea's credit profile.

Among other sovereigns, the credit implications of a major conflict would be more limited for Singapore (Aaa stable), Hong Kong (Aa2 stable) and Taiwan (Aa3 stable). In particular, these governments have fiscal space to buffer weaker exports to Korea.

The impact on Korean and global growth of a conflict would put downward pressure on energy demand.

In particular, South Korea is the second-largest importer of LNG globally. If LNG and oil prices were to fall on a sustained basis as a result, pressure on sovereign producers and exporters of these commodities would rise.

Meanwhile, if a Korean conflict led to sustained capital flows away from higher-risk emerging markets, external vulnerability and liquidity risk would increase. Which sovereigns were affected would depend on the timing of the conflict and when debt maturities were falling due.

In this respect, Mongolia's (Caa1 stable) credit profile could be impaired by global financial market turmoil if financial markets seize up at a time when refinancing needs are pressing. Two large international sovereign bond repayments are due in early and mid-2018.

“Without market access, Mongolia's ability to repay foreign debt would be very limited given its small reserves,” it said.

http://www.thestar.com.my/business/...m-japan-most-says-moodys/#6ubTymf43Q4TjPkz.99


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Can't wait for the delivery of the first batch of T90S tanks. The firepower of 125mm main cannon is reportedly more powerful than of US Abraham tank.
> 
> 
> View attachment 429135


Spoken like a true poser. Also its Abram Tank.

120mm & 125mm have pretty much the same performance. With the difference with one designed for auto-loading.

Interior:


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Spoken like a true poser. Also its Abram Tank.
> 
> 120mm & 125mm have pretty much the same performance. With the difference with one designed for auto-loading.
> 
> Interior:
> View attachment 429498


Why poser? It's not a secret the T90's 125 mm far reaching cannon is more powerful. Auto loading? The Russian panzer can rapid fire 22 rounds in every 5 seconds thanks to intelligent autoloading mechanism.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Why poser? It's not a secret the T90's 125 mm far reaching cannon is more powerful. Auto loading? The Russian panzer can rapid fire 22 rounds in every 5 seconds thanks to intelligent autoloading mechanism.


Oh yes an extra 5mm somehow makes a tank round more powerful. Oh how come Nato country doesn't make 130mm the standard tank round? I mean its 5mm larger than the Russian round. Oh jeez if only they are as smart as you. [emoji6] 

Jesus christ mate if you don't know anything about anything its better to just shut up. The rusky 3BM & the american M829 have almost the same performance, with the american one slightly better in accuracy & penetration. *This is not counting the DU round.

On the contrary Autoloader is not meant to make a gun shoot faster it is meant to reduce the size of the crew. Having a loader actually makes the gun shoot faster. 

Go to the armored warfare section of the forum & get yourself educated.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Oh yes an extra 5mm somehow makes a tank round more powerful. Oh how come Nato country doesn't make 130mm the standard tank round? I mean its 5mm larger than the Russian round. Oh jeez if only they are as smart as you. [emoji6]
> 
> Jesus christ mate if you don't know anything about anything its better to just shut up. The rusky 3BM & the american M829 have almost the same performance, with the american one slightly better in accuracy & penetration. *This is not counting the DU round.
> 
> On the contrary Autoloader is not meant to make a gun shoot faster it is meant to reduce the size of the crew. Having a loader actually makes the gun shoot faster.
> 
> Go to the armored warfare section of the forum & get yourself educated.


No need to run amok nor appear to be like a resurrection of a Chinese poster that is banned. Why should I shut up? This is a Vietnam thread. There are many articles comparing the two tanks, everyone can make up his own minds and opinions.

You become very nasty just because other don't share your opinions.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> No need to run amok nor appear to be like a resurrection of a Chinese poster that is banned. Why should I shut up? This is a Vietnam thread. There are many articles comparing the two tanks, everyone can make up his own minds and opinions.
> 
> You become very nasty just because other don't share your opinions.


This is a military forum. Not facebook. This forum purpose its to share knowledge about military matter. Like I just did. You should be thankful it was just me. In other thread you would be lynched for saying 125mm is better because some people said it on teh intehwebz. 

Here's a link if you want to know more about Russian APFSDS: http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/apfsds/ammo.html

A bit of warning though the Rusky tend to sell "waterdown" (monkey model) version of their weapons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This is a military forum. Not facebook. This forum purpose its to share knowledge about military matter. Like I just did. You should be thankful it was just me. In other thread you would be lynched for saying 125mm is better because some people said it on teh intehwebz.
> 
> Here's a link if you want to know more about Russian APFSDS: http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/apfsds/ammo.html
> 
> A bit of warning though the Rusky tend to sell "waterdown" (monkey model) version of their weapons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment


Sharing knowledge on military matters? Man you sound as if you work in a tank factory assembling cannons into the tank chassis by yourself.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Sharing knowledge on military matters? Man you sound as if you work in a tank factory assembling cannons into the tank chassis by yourself.


I'm was an army brat. My family were in the military for 3 generation. 

Believe me I know stuff.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'm was an army brat. My family were in the military for 3 generation.
> 
> Believe me I know stuff.


If true then yourself and your family represent the entire indo military history since the Dutch released your country into independence. 

You should write a book.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> If true then yourself and your family represent the entire indo military history since the Dutch released your country into independence.
> 
> You should write a book.


Or maybe you should read new book. The myth that 125mm are better than the Nato 120mm comes from an old article in the 80s: https://books.google.ca/books?id=Dj9VAAAAYAAJ


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Or maybe you should read new book. The myth that 125mm are better than the Nato 120mm comes from an old article in the 80s: https://books.google.ca/books?id=Dj9VAAAAYAAJ


Instead of posting a link to a book that nobody knows you should cite technical specs comparing the cannons. Aka effective firing range. Otherwise people would begin to question your knowledge on military matters.

You don't want to embarrass your family members rich with military tradition, do you?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Instead of posting a link to a book that nobody knows you should cite technical specs comparing the cannons. Aka effective firing range. Otherwise people would begin to question your knowledge on military matters.


Did you even read the link I just show you earlier about Russian APFSDS?


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Did you even read the link I just show you earlier about Russian APFSDS?


You are wasting other people's time.

Yes I fast read the article they are talking about 125 mm rounds with some were developed in the 1960. Why don't you post specs of the tank and their rounds from present day instead of citing a book in 1980 and tank shell in 1960?

What next? You bring up an article written by an unknown soldier in 1945?


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> You are wasting other people's time.
> 
> Yes I fast read the article they are talking about 125 mm rounds with some were developed in the 1960. Why don't you post specs of the tank and their rounds from present day instead of citing a book in 1980 and tank shell in 1960?


Now you are asking me to waste my time. You're in a military forum go to the armored warfare section & post a new thread about it.

Also its more likely that Vietnam will have the Russian "Mango" round. Go to site & see the performance of the round & compared it with the MPAT round.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Now you are asking me to waste my time. You're in a military forum go to the armored warfare section & post a new thread about it.
> 
> Also its more likely that Vietnam will have the Russian "Mango" round. Go to site & see the performance of the round & compared it with the MPAT round.


You are a funny little boy. Instead of posting technical specs to prove your point, first you shout out loud I shall shut up and now second ask me to open a thread in another section, then I should read this and that. Last, you assume VN will get mango.

Why mango why not apple?


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## Carlosa

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Believe me I know stuff.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> You are a funny little boy. Instead of posting technical specs to prove your point, first you shout out loud I shall shut up and now second ask me to open a thread in another section, then I should read this and that. Last, you assume VN will get mango.
> 
> Why mango why not apple?


If you don't know how to read/compare spec just say so. "Mango" is not a fruit. Its a code name for the Russian 3BM42 round. Vietnam will most likely have this round because its what the indian have. http://*********************/forum/threads/3bm42-mango-license-production.78729/

Note: That the Russian no longer use the "Mango" for frontline service & mainly use the more modern "Svinets" & "Lekalo."


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> If you don't know how to read/compare spec just say so. "Mango" is not a fruit. Its a code name for the Russian 3BM42 round. Vietnam will most likely have this round because its what the indian have. http://*********************/forum/threads/3bm42-mango-license-production.78729/
> 
> Note: That the Russian no longer use the "Mango" for frontline service & mainly use the more modern "Svinets" & "Lekalo."


Mango is a fruit no matter you deny it

You're off topic.


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## Viet

Something new: Vietnam made 3D surveillance ground radar







Obviously a clone of Saber M60 (Brazil)


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> You are a funny little boy. Instead of posting technical specs to prove your point, first you shout out loud I shall shut up and now second ask me to open a thread in another section, then I should read this and that. Last, you assume VN will get mango.
> 
> Why mango why not apple?



He's right Viet. He actually right for the first time in his life and he's trying to string it out for as long as possible. He wants to bathe in being right for once for as long as possible.

The increase to 125mm is to compensate for inferior metallurgy. 

KE=1/2mv^2 this equation kinetic energy equation says the 120mm is better due to velocity.


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## Reashot Xigwin

TenLua said:


> He's right Viet. He actually right for the first time in his life and he's trying to string it out for as long as possible. He wants to bathe in being right for once for as long as possible.
> 
> The increase to 125mm is to compensate for inferior metallurgy.
> 
> KE=1/2mv^2 this equation kinetic energy equation says the 120mm is better due to velocity.


Says the guy that think he can single handedly take the entire indonesian army with a spoon. 

But finally someone with sense in the vietnamese side.


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## TenLua

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Says the guy that think he can single handedly take the entire indonesian army with a spoon.
> 
> But finally someone with sense in the vietnamese side.



I can, in fact, conquer indonesia with a spoon in shorts and flip flops. indonesian weak sauce military is just for show and cant do any actual fighting. I dont even understand what indonesians are doing in a military forum.

Althought I must admit, I would have to put on boots and trousers for china.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> He's right Viet. He actually right for the first time in his life and he's trying to string it out for as long as possible. He wants to bathe in being right for once for as long as possible.
> 
> The increase to 125mm is to compensate for inferior metallurgy.
> 
> KE=1/2mv^2 this equation kinetic energy equation says the 120mm is better due to velocity.


The 125mm far reaching canon of T90 can destroy both Abraham and Leopard before they can come close to fire their shells. Worse, the 120mm cannon can hardly defeat T90 armor hence the Germans now develop a new generation tank with 130mm cannon.


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> The 125mm far reaching canon of T90 can destroy both Abraham and Leopard before they can come close to fire their shells. Worse, the 120mm cannon can hardly defeat T90 armor hence the Germans now develop a new generation tank with 130mm cannon.
> 
> View attachment 429691



I imagine the new 130mm is preparation for the T-14 that will be equipped with the 145mm.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> The 125mm far reaching canon of T90 can destroy both Abraham and Leopard before they can come close to fire their shells. Worse, the 120mm cannon can hardly defeat T90 armor hence the Germans now develop a new generation tank with 130mm cannon.
> 
> View attachment 429691


At this point you are just trolling now. American 120mm would pierce any armored vehicle in existence thanks to its DU round & so does Leopard with its more modern DM53-63 round. T-90 having a better armor is debatable because its considered by the west to be a medium tank. Only the front side has armor, the sides & the back are completely vulnerable. 

Just look at where the autoloader is located.





Why do you think the Russian decided to go with the Armata if the T-90 was so perfect?


TenLua said:


> I imagine the new 130mm is preparation for the T-14 that will be equipped with the 145mm.


Having a bigger turret means longer traversing time. The germans already have such experience with such calibre. I wonder how the russian manage to solve the low rotating speed problem.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> The 125mm far reaching canon of T90 can destroy both Abraham and Leopard before they can come close to fire their shells. Worse, the 120mm cannon can hardly defeat T90 armor hence the Germans now develop a new generation tank with 130mm cannon.
> 
> View attachment 429691



Actually, having a bigger Bore does not translate to having a longer range, range is controlled by powder inside the round vs how large the Projectile is. Another factor is the Calibre (L/XX) the longer the gun calibre is, the more energy you can preserve. Also how the main gun constructed is an issue, automatic reloading usually mean the ejector port is open or semi-open (because you don't need to open the breech and insert a round ie Automatic) then it will bleed out some of the energy from the gun, which mean it have lower initial velocity.)

Depending on the weight, of the main gun, if you are talking about older version or watered down version of T-90, then the gun it uses is inferior to the M1 Abrams, but if you are talking about upgraded T-90M (With 2A-82-1M gun instead of the old 2A46) then it may be of similar range to Abrams. If I remember both 2A-82 (48 Cal) on a T-14 and new M256 L55 (55 Cal) have similar range at around 5000 to 5500 meters, but older 2A46 only have 3000-4000 meters range. The reason why the gun on T-14 have longer range with the same calibre and bore diameter is because of the way T-14 Design, it have an unmanned turret which mean the whole thing is literally sealed off and even if the ejector is open, it won't affect the gun much as the whole gun port is sealed.

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## Nike

May having the longer range gun is not always can be translated into actual first shot capability. You need a very good stabilyzed system, good optical tracking sight and fire control system and good overall situational awareness system to out do your opponents. 

Catherine FCS versus EMES 15 ....


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## jhungary

madokafc said:


> May having the longer range gun is not always can be translated into actual first shot capability. You need a very good stabilyzed system, good optical tracking sight and fire control system and good overall situational awareness system to out do your opponents.
> 
> Catherine FCS versus EMES 15 ....



actually, the most important factor is the suspension and torsion of the chassis, don't really matter if you have world class optics, if your tank cannot stabilise itself good when you are firing that big gun, you are going to mess up your shot. 

And most people don't know that or don't care about that unless you served as a tanker before.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Actually, having a bigger Bore does not translate to having a longer range, range is controlled by powder inside the round vs how large the Projectile is. Another factor is the Calibre (L/XX) the longer the gun calibre is, the more energy you can preserve. Also how the main gun constructed is an issue, automatic reloading usually mean the ejector port is open or semi-open (because you don't need to open the breech and insert a round ie Automatic) then it will bleed out some of the energy from the gun, which mean it have lower initial velocity.)
> 
> Depending on the weight, of the main gun, if you are talking about older version or watered down version of T-90, then the gun it uses is inferior to the M1 Abrams, but if you are talking about upgraded T-90M (With 2A-82-1M gun instead of the old 2A46) then it may be of similar range to Abrams. If I remember both 2A-82 (48 Cal) on a T-14 and new M256 L55 (55 Cal) have similar range at around 5000 to 5500 meters, but older 2A46 only have 3000-4000 meters range. The reason why the gun on T-14 have longer range with the same calibre and bore diameter is because of the way T-14 Design, it have an unmanned turret which mean the whole thing is literally sealed off and even if the ejector is open, it won't affect the gun much as the whole gun port is sealed.


True, laws of physics. But right now the german Panzer army equipped by Leopard 2 with 120mm cannon would go as loser from the battlefield because the present tank ammunition fitted by wolfram core don't have enough kinetic energy when firing to destroy the newest developed armor of T90. the new tank probably called Leopard 3 with 130mm gun would come in 2030.

https://de.sputniknews.com/amp/zeitungen/20150428302103674/

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## Nike

Viet said:


> True, laws of physics. But right now the german Panzer army equipped by Leopard 2 with 120mm cannon would go as loser from the battlefield because the present tank ammunition fitted by wolfram core don't have enough kinetic energy when firing to destroy the newest developed armor of T90. the new tank probably called Leopard 3 with 130mm gun would come in 2030.
> 
> https://de.sputniknews.com/amp/zeitungen/20150428302103674/
> 
> View attachment 429771



De sputnik news.... Ze. I though you would suggest a better sources


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## Viet

madokafc said:


> De sputnik news.... Ze. I though you would suggest a better sources


Read the article sis mado. Sputnik cites sources from German media which cites sources from the German armed forces.

https://amp.focus.de/politik/muniti...n-russische-panzer-chancenlos_id_4639530.html


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## Viet

VN coast guard vessel visits Hawaii.


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## Viet

Scott Swift, the commander of the US Pacific Fleet on a visit to Vietnam. the man, who says he will nuke China next week if Donald Trump orders him to do so. Probably on his personal wish, he visits Bach Dang, a small arm of the Red River, and pays tribute for those who fell in the war. The place had seen the all decisive sea battle of 938. 1079 years ago, under the command of Ngô Quyền the Vietnamese Navy annihilated the chinese invasion fleet and led Vietnam into independence. 











battle of Bach Dang of 938


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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> Any naval ship worth its weight in salt can strike from a range those artillery cannot reach. I really do not see the point of having those artillery pieces as coastal defense.
> 
> .


artillery is for Landing craft and small ships


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## TenLua

Viva_Viet said:


> artillery is for Landing craft and small ships



I figure as much but it's why modern naval ships have guided missiles. This isn't world war 2 where soldiers storm the beach while machine guns and artillery shoot at them. Any general who expose his men to that kind of needless danger needs to be hang.


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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> I figure as much but it's why modern naval ships have guided missiles. This isn't world war 2 where soldiers storm the beach while machine guns and artillery shoot at them. Any general who expose his men to that kind of needless danger needs to be hang.



Yes, but don't forget that most ships don't have sea to land missiles (usually destroyers have them such as AEGIS destroyers with their Tomahawk missiles), they have anti ship missiles, so their main weapon against land targets is their onboard gun and as such, those land artillery pieces which seem to be 152mm are actually more powerful than the gun ships which are usually 76mm (123mm in case of destroyers). those land artillery pieces would do effective counter battery fire against the ships and against landing craft. That's why VN deploys a lot of artillery in the larger islands.

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> Yes, but don't forget that most ships don't have sea to land missiles (usually destroyers have them such as AEGIS destroyers with their Tomahawk missiles), they have anti ship missiles, so their main weapon against land targets is their onboard gun and as such, those land artillery pieces which seem to be 152mm are actually more powerful than the gun ships which are usually 76mm (123mm in case of destroyers). those land artillery pieces would do effective counter battery fire against the ships and against landing craft. That's why VN deploys a lot of artillery in the larger islands.



I see your point.

Does type-055/052 have land attack cruise missiles?


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> I figure as much but it's why modern naval ships have guided missiles. This isn't world war 2 where soldiers storm the beach while machine guns and artillery shoot at them. Any general who expose his men to that kind of needless danger needs to be hang.


What are other options? VN army isn't rich. We can expect before landing the enemy will bombard the beach. Navy will be the first line of defense, but the Marines as second and last line of defense will have to use every means to stop approaching landing crafts. Scenario won't differ much from WW 2.


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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> I see your point.
> 
> Does type-055/052 have land attack cruise missiles?



You bet it does, it has a ton of missiles, particularly the type 55.

The thing is, land artillery will push an attacking naval force to stay out of the range of the artillery unless they want to take that risk. Of course a very strong attacking naval force will have the means of destroying that land artillery (plus air attacks, etc). 

So in practice, that land artillery gets used mainly against landing craft.

If the attacking force is composed of smaller ships (no destroyers), the land based artillery definitely plays an important role. Go one step further and deploy long range guided rockets as VN has done and you have a much more powerful deterrent.



Viet said:


> What are other options? VN army isn't rich. We can expect before landing the enemy will bombard the beach. Navy will be the first line of defense, but the Marines as second and last line of defense will have to use every means to stop approaching landing crafts. Scenario won't differ much from WW 2.



WW 2 style beach landings continue to be a typical scenario and that's why the US marines continue to train on that. The landing vehicles are much better now and the supporting weapons are also better. Can also combine the amphibious assault with air assault by helicopters, but the basics of the game are still the same.

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## Viet

Landing of US Marines at Da Nang beach in 1965

Recently a report. The Vietnam war is the second most popular theme after the US civil war in US media, politics and in the public. Some 50 films were made with VN war theme. Documentary films not included in the numbers. Not to mention books, annual events and memorials across America. One can assume the US Americans can't move on although the war ends long ago.

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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> I figure as much but it's why modern naval ships have guided missiles. This isn't world war 2 where soldiers storm the beach while machine guns and artillery shoot at them. Any general who expose his men to that kind of needless danger needs to be hang.


PLAN has Zero experience in modern warfare and also dont know how keep their guided missiles ship survive against anti-ship missile in real combat, so they will use human wave tactic in naval combat again and again.

So, artillery will be the best choice to stop their landing craft, bro.


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## Carlosa

I wrote this for another forum a couple of years ago, I believe is still valid:

*Vietnamese Spratly Islands multi layer defensive system (this analysis applies only to the bigger islands):*

*First line of defense (up to 150 km range):* EXTRA (long range guided rockets).

*Second line of defense (up to 40 km range):* Accular guided rockets. 130 & 122 mm howitzers.

*Third line of defense (up to 10 km range):* Kornet anti tank missiles, Light tanks (PT-76) or medium tanks (T-54 / 55). The islands have a sizable forces of enclosed T-34-85 and even M-48 tanks, they're protected by hardened steel case and concrete bunkers.

*Fourth line of defense (up to 3 km range):* direct line of sight light artillery (23 / 37 / 85 mm), MATADOR anti tank missiles, other anti tank missiles, RPG type weapons (RPG-7, SPG-9, RPG-29), AGS-17 grenade launcher, 12.7mm heavy machine guns.

*Against helicopter assault:* Shoulder mounted Igla missiles, 23 / 37 mm anti aircraft guns and even anti tank and RPG weapons.

*Air assets:* The islands can deploy armed helicopters.

*Passive defense:* The island have steel-reinforced concrete obstacles around the islands, like the poles in Bach Dang river and/or steel obstacles on Normandy. That would slow the enemies vessels down, also act as artillery marks. So, the artillery still has its use, but its not really effective against fast moving landing boats.

*Conclusions:* Most things are small, mobile and easy to hide and protect, but the artillery / tanks in bunkers are vulnerable to enemy shelling.

*Notes:* Large weapon systems (anti ship missiles, air defense systems, etc) are too difficult to hide and too vulnerable against the enemy initial shelling and or missile attacks. Also, deploying sophisticated systems like anti ship missiles, etc, those systems have to be maintained, but can't do that properly in a small island. And lets not forget that the environment in those islands is very nasty to equipment, very nasty marine environment.

If you are going to attack these islands, you are first going to deploy plenty of assets and you are going to cut them off and then apply heavy suppression fire to destroy most of what is there and then you make your move. Its very difficult to defend against that, you can have landings coming from all directions and by air.

Now that the chinese have large bases in their newly expanded islands only makes the situation far worse. The already have 3 large air bases from where they can deploy a significant number of fighter jets as well as AWACS aircrafts. Its just a matter of time until they deploy large air defense systems which will cover the air space of the Vietnamese islands. They can also deploy long range rocket launchers to shell the islands, Vietnam has no defense against that, so there is no point in deploying large, sophisticated systems, they can't survive.

Look at what happened on the Falkland islands and those islands are far bigger, the Argentinians deployed 15,000 men and heavy artillery, but in the end they surrendered because they were cut off and had no chance of getting supplies. Actually, precisely because they deployed too many troops, the supply issue was even bigger. You can only deploy so much in an island that is 60,000 s/m (that's the biggest island, Spratly island, although its getting expanded now).

In my view those islands are not defensible against a big power like China. You can only try to do some damage to the attacking party before you lose the island, but you can't keep them. That would
require air and naval assets that Vietnam does not have and also long range missiles.

Still, only so much can be deployed in a very small island and in the end, can't stop a large landing force. Remember all those Japanese islands during WW2, all much bigger and with a lot of Japanese troops, but all were taken. Islands are not defensible against a superior enemy that can cut off the island and keep a blockade.

That's also why all those chinese islands can be easily destroyed / taken by the Americans if they want to.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I wrote this for another forum a couple of years ago, I believe is still valid:
> 
> *Vietnamese Spratly Islands multi layer defensive system (this analysis applies only to the bigger islands):*
> 
> *First line of defense (up to 150 km range):* EXTRA (long range guided rockets).
> 
> *Second line of defense (up to 40 km range):* Accular guided rockets. 130 & 122 mm howitzers.
> 
> *Third line of defense (up to 10 km range):* Kornet anti tank missiles, Light tanks (PT-76) or medium tanks (T-54 / 55). The islands have a sizable forces of enclosed T-34-85 and even M-48 tanks, they're protected by hardened steel case and concrete bunkers.
> 
> *Fourth line of defense (up to 3 km range):* direct line of sight light artillery (23 / 37 / 85 mm), MATADOR anti tank missiles, other anti tank missiles, RPG type weapons (RPG-7, SPG-9, RPG-29), AGS-17 grenade launcher, 12.7mm heavy machine guns.
> 
> *Against helicopter assault:* Shoulder mounted Igla missiles, 23 / 37 mm anti aircraft guns and even anti tank and RPG weapons.
> 
> *Air assets:* The islands can deploy armed helicopters.
> 
> *Passive defense:* The island have steel-reinforced concrete obstacles around the islands, like the poles in Bach Dang river and/or steel obstacles on Normandy. That would slow the enemies vessels down, also act as artillery marks. So, the artillery still has its use, but its not really effective against fast moving landing boats.
> 
> *Conclusions:* Most things are small, mobile and easy to hide and protect, but the artillery / tanks in bunkers are vulnerable to enemy shelling.
> 
> *Notes:* Large weapon systems (anti ship missiles, air defense systems, etc) are too difficult to hide and too vulnerable against the enemy initial shelling and or missile attacks. Also, deploying sophisticated systems like anti ship missiles, etc, those systems have to be maintained, but can't do that properly in a small island. And lets not forget that the environment in those islands is very nasty to equipment, very nasty marine environment.
> 
> If you are going to attack these islands, you are first going to deploy plenty of assets and you are going to cut them off and then apply heavy suppression fire to destroy most of what is there and then you make your move. Its very difficult to defend against that, you can have landings coming from all directions and by air.
> 
> Now that the chinese have large bases in their newly expanded islands only makes the situation far worse. The already have 3 large air bases from where they can deploy a significant number of fighter jets as well as AWACS aircrafts. Its just a matter of time until they deploy large air defense systems which will cover the air space of the Vietnamese islands. They can also deploy long range rocket launchers to shell the islands, Vietnam has no defense against that, so there is no point in deploying large, sophisticated systems, they can't survive.
> 
> Look at what happened on the Falkland islands and those islands are far bigger, the Argentinians deployed 15,000 men and heavy artillery, but in the end they surrendered because they were cut off and had no chance of getting supplies. Actually, precisely because they deployed too many troops, the supply issue was even bigger. You can only deploy so much in an island that is 60,000 s/m (that's the biggest island, Spratly island, although its getting expanded now).
> 
> In my view those islands are not defensible against a big power like China. You can only try to do some damage to the attacking party before you lose the island, but you can't keep them. That would
> require air and naval assets that Vietnam does not have and also long range missiles.
> 
> Still, only so much can be deployed in a very small island and in the end, can't stop a large landing force. Remember all those Japanese islands during WW2, all much bigger and with a lot of Japanese troops, but all were taken. Islands are not defensible against a superior enemy that can cut off the island and keep a blockade.
> 
> That's also why all those chinese islands can be easily destroyed / taken by the Americans if they want to.


There are gaps and weaknesses obviously in our defense hence the Chinese threaten us with war if drilling doesn't stop. The good thing is everyone now in VN knows who is friend who is enemy.

VN needs a policy of iron fist both in diplomacy and military otherwise we can never live in peace.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> What are other options? VN army isn't rich. We can expect before landing the enemy will bombard the beach. Navy will be the first line of defense, but the Marines as second and last line of defense will have to use every means to stop approaching landing crafts. Scenario won't differ much from WW 2.



VN need to scrape what she can and purchase more subs. From what I understand that is the only route an inferior navy can hope to slow a superior force. They're expensive. A cheaper route, and I'm pulling this one out of my ***, snipers. Lots of snipers.



Carlosa said:


> You bet it does, it has a ton of missiles, particularly the type 55.
> 
> The thing is, land artillery will push an attacking naval force to stay out of the range of the artillery unless they want to take that risk. Of course a very strong attacking naval force will have the means of destroying that land artillery (plus air attacks, etc).
> 
> So in practice, that land artillery gets used mainly against landing craft.
> 
> If the attacking force is composed of smaller ships (no destroyers), the land based artillery definitely plays an important role. Go one step further and deploy long range guided rockets as VN has done and you have a much more powerful deterrent.
> 
> 
> 
> WW 2 style beach landings continue to be a typical scenario and that's why the US marines continue to train on that. The landing vehicles are much better now and the supporting weapons are also better. Can also combine the amphibious assault with air assault by helicopters, but the basics of the game are still the same.



Of course, some counter measure is better than none, but VN govt need to subsidize R&D for that indigenous mini sub.



Viva_Viet said:


> PLAN has Zero experience in modern warfare and also dont know how keep their guided missiles ship survive against anti-ship missile in real combat, so they will use human wave tactic in naval combat again and again.
> 
> So, artillery will be the best choice to stop their landing craft, bro.


 
It is never wise to underestimate your enemy.

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## Viet

That is funny. a VN oil tanker crashed into the most powerful destroyer of Taiwan: ROCS Tso Ying (DDG-1803), seriously demaged the warship when moving out of harbor.

Such accident may repeat. VN needs huge energy imports. VN needs markets. the government hopes the exports to reach $275 billion this year, with the total turnover some $550 billion. VN Import/export volumes could reach $1 trillion by 2020. Doable only with enormous efforts from everybody. Well, unless a war breaks out in the region or a global financial crisis returns or a tsunami sinks the East Asian continent.


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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> VN need to scrape what she can and purchase more subs. From what I understand that is the only route an inferior navy can hope to slow a superior force. They're expensive.



That's what I've been saying for the last few years. In case of war, Viet surface ships will have to stay in port or will not survive. Only subs can navigate mostly undetected and hit enemy vessels. Quite a few naval exercises have shown subs getting into firing position against US carriers totally undetected.

They are not that expensive, the Kilos were $300 million each, the Italian S-1000 is even cheaper. The Gepard that is now in its way to Vietnam is $350 million and what is it good for in case of war?

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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> That's what I've been saying for the last few years. In case of war, Viet surface ships will have to stay in port or will not survive. Only subs can navigate mostly undetected and hit enemy vessels. Quite a few naval exercises have shown subs getting into firing position against US carriers totally undetected.
> 
> They are not that expensive, the Kilos were $300 million each, the Italian S-1000 is even cheaper. The Gepard that is now in its way to Vietnam is $350 million and what is it good for in case of war?



LOL anything italian is overrated and over priced. Their 500k USD cars can't even idle without catching on fire.

In my opinion, if a ship can't hit an air target, that ship is just a sitting duck. Vietnam needs to divest from surface ship and invest in missile tech, aircraft, or sub. Any of those is better than a surface ship that will most certainly be overwhelmed.

WW2 for example, when two of the most powerful battleship from Japan were sunk from the air. Those ship never fired a shot at an enemy ship.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> That is funny. a VN oil tanker crashed into the most powerful destroyer of Taiwan: ROCS Tso Ying (DDG-1803), seriously demaged the warship when moving out of harbor.
> 
> Such accident may repeat. VN needs huge energy imports. VN needs markets. the government hopes the exports to reach $275 billion this year, with the total turnover some $550 billion. VN Import/export volumes could reach $1 trillion by 2020. Doable only with enormous efforts from everybody. Well, unless a war breaks out in the region or a global financial crisis returns or a tsunami sinks the East Asian continent.
> 
> View attachment 430063
> View attachment 430062
> 
> View attachment 430056


Yep, Such accident will repeat soon as JP petrol company,Idemitsu Q8, start operating in VN, more oil tanker will sail from JP to VN and vice vesar.



> *First foreign-owned petrol station opened in Hanoi*
> Friday, 2017-10-06 05:56:37
> Font Size: |
> 
> 
> At the opening ceremony for the petrol service station
> Font Size: |
> NDO - A petrol service station named Idemitsu Q8 was launched at the Thang Long Industrial Park in Hanoi, on October 5, becoming the first wholly foreign-owned petrol station to join the petrol retail market in Vietnam.
> 
> The petrol service station is operated by Idemitsu Q8 Petroleum Co Ltd, a joint venture between Japan's Idemitsu Kosan and Kuwait Petroleum International Ltd, established in 2016.
> 
> The station covers approximately 6,000 m2 at the Thang Long Industrial Park which is home to many Japanese enterprises.
> 
> Idemitsu Q8 is equipped with an automated management software system which allows card payments, with a number of advanced features, and is capable of providing accurate management of fuel quantities to 0.01 litres and a detailed report of transactions for customers.
> 
> The station is also equipped with state-of-the-art technology to prevent any leakages of fuel, while providing customers with Japanese standard services through trained staff.
> 
> Hiroaki Honjo, General Director of Idemitsu Q8 Company said that the joint venture will strive to become the leading petrol service trademark in Vietnam.
> 
> The Idemitsu Q8 joint venture is planning to open more petrol service stations in various provinces and cities nationwide in order to expand its petrol retail market.
> 
> Idemitsu Kosan has been operating in Vietnam since the 1990s and also has stakes in the Nghi Son oil refinery project in Thanh Hoa and has participated in several petrol business activities across Vietnam.
> 
> 
> http://en.nhandan.org.vn/business/i...ign-owned-petrol-station-opened-in-hanoi.html


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> In my view those islands are not defensible against a big power like China. You can only try to do some damage to the attacking party before you lose the island, but you can't keep them. *That would
> require air and naval assets that Vietnam does not have and also long range missiles.*
> 
> Still, only so much can be deployed in a very small island and in the end, can't stop a large landing force. Remember all those Japanese islands during WW2, all much bigger and with a lot of Japanese troops, but all were taken. Islands are not defensible against a superior enemy that can cut off the island and keep a blockade.
> 
> That's also why all those chinese islands can be easily destroyed / taken by the Americans if they want to.


We have Scud and Shaddock missiles, range from 500km to 700km since 80s, enough to cover all Spratly islands. Our Su 22 also can reach those islands during 1988 clash, but we didnt fire to CN ship cos our economy was too bad that time and we counld not make situation get even worse .


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> The 125mm far reaching canon of T90 can destroy both Abraham and Leopard before they can come close to fire their shells. Worse, the 120mm cannon can hardly defeat T90 armor hence the Germans now develop a new generation tank with 130mm cannon.
> 
> View attachment 429691


What is the penetration value of APFSDS-T in T-90 over RHA under 2 km?


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> What is the penetration value of APFSDS-T in T-90 over RHA under 2 km?


There are info available on internet, so something between 250mm (Wolfram core) to 900mm (Uran) if the armor piercing shell hits at 0 degree at tank body.

The Turks learn a hard lesson when they lost numerous Leopard tanks and armor vehicles in Syria, hit not by T90 but modern RPG rounds and antitank missiles.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Farhan Bohra said:


> What is the penetration value of APFSDS-T in T-90 over RHA under 2 km?


Real tank penetration value are usually kept secret but through some internet wizardry I managed to found one but remember to take this number with a healthy dose of skepticism. 

The Rusky: 

Lekalo & Svinets are around 600mm.

Mango at 520mm.

The good guys:

M827 tungsten, 450mm (never fielded by the US)

M829 around 800mm of penetration.

German L55 DM53 700mm, DM63 720mm (note that the german doesn't even use DU round.)

The UK charm 3 have around the same penetration as the US.


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## Viet

VN ambassador to the United States visits the Governor of Hawaii and Harry Harries, the commander of US Pacific Command (PACOM). 

3 percent of Hawaii population are ethnic Vietnamese.

Vietnam infrastructure is almost ready to welcome the first visit of US aircraft carrier. Maybe more than one carriers will arrive at Cam Ranh bay.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> There are info available on internet, so something between 250mm (Wolfram core) to 900mm (Uran) if the armor piercing shell hits at 0 degree at tank body.
> 
> The Turks learn a hard lesson when they lost numerous Leopard tanks and armor vehicles in Syria, hit not by T90 but modern RPG rounds and antitank missiles.


900 mm penetration is of DU round.



Viet said:


> The Turks learn a hard lesson when they lost numerous Leopard tanks and armor vehicles in Syria, hit not by T90 but modern RPG rounds and antitank missiles.


Turks also fielded Pattons.

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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> We have Scud and Shaddock missiles, range from 500km to 700km since 80s, enough to cover all Spratly islands. Our Su 22 also can reach those islands during 1988 clash, but we didnt fire to CN ship cos our economy was too bad that time and we counld not make situation get even worse .



Ballistic missiles are not going to help defend the islands, Its a weapon of retaliation.
Shaddock missiles and Su-22 can't penetrate a modern air defense system. Su-22s only carry short range missiles, Its a suicide mission.



TenLua said:


> LOL anything italian is overrated and over priced. Their 500k USD cars can't even idle without catching on fire.
> 
> In my opinion, if a ship can't hit an air target, that ship is just a sitting duck. Vietnam needs to divest from surface ship and invest in missile tech, aircraft, or sub. Any of those is better than a surface ship that will most certainly be overwhelmed.
> 
> WW2 for example, when two of the most powerful battleship from Japan were sunk from the air. Those ship never fired a shot at an enemy ship.



The S-1000 is not overpriced, Its actually very cost effective and a capable design. VN was very interested in it, the Italians came to Hanoi to discuss the sale but nothing else has been heard.


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## TenLua

Carlosa said:


> Ballistic missiles are not going to help defend the islands, Its a weapon of retaliation.
> Shaddock missiles and Su-22 can't penetrate a modern air defense system. Su-22s only carry short range missiles, Its a suicide mission.
> 
> 
> 
> The S-1000 is not overpriced, Its actually very cost effective and a capable design. VN was very interested in it, the Italians came to Hanoi to discuss the sale but nothing else has been heard.



Yes but it's made in italy. These guys havent won a single battle since the fall of the roman empire. They were the biggest joke in both world wars. The only reason people give shit made in italy any attention is the price. They produce crap and slap a ridiculous price on it and people think price=quality.


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> Ballistic missiles are not going to help defend the islands, Its a weapon of retaliation.
> Shaddock missiles and Su-22 can't penetrate a modern air defense system. Su-22s only carry short range missiles, Its a suicide mission.
> 
> 
> .


Its impossible to defend those small islands, Ballistic missiles are used to destroy enemy's hardware, air base in enemy's islands.

In 80s, Su 22 was the best choice, bro. Our Su 22 didnt fire to Cn ship just bcs our economy situation was to bad that time. Now, our economy is quite good and Su 30 will replace Su 22 in that mission. 

We will not hesitate to destroy enemy's islands and sink their ships if they attack our islands again.


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## xiao qi

A Chinese film trailer about battle of LaoSon between China and Vietnam in 1986

LaoShan or LaoSon is a part of Vietnam territories, It was occupied by Chinese force in 1986, Vietnamese tried to counter-attack, two sides competed to gain each meter land in there and make it becomes one of the most fierce battles happened in 1986.


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## TenLua

xiao qi said:


> A Chinese film trailer about battle of LaoSon between China and Vietnam in 1986
> 
> LaoShan or LaoSon is a part of Vietnam territories, It was occupied by Chinese force in 1986, Vietnamese tried to counter-attack, two sides competed to gain each meter land in there and make it becomes one of the most fierce battles happened in 1986.



Chinese governments are some of the dumbest goddamn idiots alive. Not just the current ones, but throughout history. They suppress the talents of their people, who are capable as any, and force their greedy ideals on civilians. 

Just look at their history, the people would build china up to be a super power only to have the ruling party destroy everything their people work for. I mean, chinese leaderships have made the most disasterous mistakes of all time, repeatedly. 

I wonder why chinese dont hang those POS in power.

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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> Chinese governments are some of the dumbest goddamn idiots alive. Not just the current ones, but throughout history. They suppress the talents of their people, who are capable as any, and force their greedy ideals on civilians.
> 
> Just look at their history, the people would build china up to be a super power only to have the ruling party destroy everything their people work for. I mean, chinese leaderships have made the most disasterous mistakes of all time, repeatedly.
> 
> I wonder why chinese dont hang those POS in power.


Don't agree on some issues, in other aspects, their government is so smart not an idiot. From what I see in history, the Chinese leaders have not been controlled by emotions like Vietnamese leaders. The invasion of Vietnam makes the chance for China today, shake hand with American and capitalist nation while the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia because of a big part of the Vietnamese leader's emotions after Polpot's attacking in South VN. See the difference.

Only Chinese soldier who sends to the battle is so misery, they don't understand why the fought and die for what. The Chinese government calls the war as 对越自卫还击战 but self -defense for what.

BTW, I like the traller film because It is so real same as these things I hear from Vietnamese veteran. In the first of trailer, I also hear a Chinese soldier said: wo zhen de hao pa, I'm really scared and want to go home. Maybe It is the reason why this film was banned in China. Unfortunately

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## GS Zhou

warzone said:


> money can’t buy competent, courage, operational readiness , combat experience,


thanks for your comment. I agree with your point fully that money alone can not buy a strong and competent military force!

So instead of "buy everything from foreign countries", what PLA doing is:
1) indigenous development of all defense systems;
2) extensive/close-to-real military exercises

In terms of the indigenous development of all defense systems, what we usually see on the screen is the final product itself, e.g. the complete J20, or Type 052D destroyer. But what not easily seen is the efforts that China makes for develop the sub-systems, or the components of the sub-systems, or the machines to produce these components. Below are just two tiny examples, one is the 80,000-Ton press machine developed by China to produce the large-size structural parts of the military plane; another is the titanium part of an unnamed military plane. The titanium part is produced by 3D printing (laser direct manufacturing)












With respect to military drills, PLA does not have the chance to do a real modern combat, so the only compensation PLA could do is to put its soldiers in extensive/close-to-real military exercises. Here is just one small example.

The following news from China Central Television mentions two interesting things:
1) In Autumn 2016, a confrontation drill between the PLA Rocket Force (PLARF) vs. the Air Defense units of PLAAF. Within this single drill, PLARF launched 10 ballistic missiles; and PLAAF launched several tens of air defense missiles to intercept the ballistic missiles (maybe 2~3 air defense missiles for every ballistic missile?). I think the amount of the missiles consumed in this single drill alone (10 ballistic missiles + 20~30 HQ-9/S300 alike missiles) is close to the total missile inventory of most countries.

2) PLARF did 20 Tianjian-series (天剑/Sky Sword) drills in 2016. And nearly 100 ballistic missiles fired in these Tianjian-series drills. Considering the Tianjian exercises are just part of the drills that PLARF joins, I won't be surprised that PLARF consumed 200 ballistic missiles, or more, in different drills in 2016. I.e the ballistic missiles consumed by PLARF in one single year, has been more than the total inventory of most countries.

Of course such drills can not fully imitate a real modern combat, but this is already the best that could be performed in peaceful time. Compared to other countries, who lacks of the experience in a real modern combat neither, meanwhile still reluctant to fire real missiles (in large quantity) in military exercises, I'm happy to see PLA is moving in the right path.

The PLARF video mentioned:
http://tv.cctv.com/2016/12/27/VIDE3MYVTOf7Yrq2uCaUANzy161227.shtml

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> 900 mm penetration is of DU round.
> 
> 
> Turks also fielded Pattons.


the Turks lost 10 Leopard 2A4 within few days. Autsch! the Leo2 is a typ of tank that lacks protection from the flank and is vulnerable to anti missile and ambush. T90 is better protected.







xiao qi said:


> Don't agree on some issues, in other aspects, their government is so smart not an idiot. From what I see in history, the Chinese leaders have not been controlled by emotions like Vietnamese leaders. The invasion of Vietnam makes the chance for China today, shake hand with American and capitalist nation while the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia because of a big part of the Vietnamese leader's emotions after Polpot's attacking in South VN. See the difference.
> 
> Only Chinese soldier who sends to the battle is so misery, they don't understand why the fought and die for what. The Chinese government calls the war as 对越自卫还击战 but self -defense for what.
> 
> BTW, I like the traller film because It is so real same as these things I hear from Vietnamese veteran. In the first of trailer, I also hear a Chinese soldier said: wo zhen de hao pa, I'm really scared and want to go home. Maybe It is the reason why this film was banned in China. Unfortunately


Thailand is similar to Vietnam in geography and population. How many times the Chinese attacked the Siamese? Zero. How many times they attacked Vietnam? Too many times to count. Correct, Vietnam is generally too stupid too emotional giving the Chinese too many pretexts and excuses for aggression. The Thai generally act smarter in diplomacy.

The Chinese attacked Vietnam killing our people destroying our country because we retaliated against Cambodia aggression. In contrast the Chinese did not lift a finger when Thailand attacked Cambodia and even annexed the country.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> the Turks lost 10 Leopard 2A4 within few days. Autsch! the Leo2 is a typ of tank that lacks protection from the flank and is vulnerable to anti missile and ambush. T90 is better protected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thailand is similar to Vietnam in geography and population. How many times the Chinese attacked the Siamese? Zero. How many times they attacked Vietnam? Too many times to count. Correct, Vietnam is generally too stupid too emotional giving the Chinese too many pretexts and excuses for aggression. The Thai generally act smarter in diplomacy.
> 
> The Chinese attacked Vietnam killing our people destroying our country because we retaliated against Cambodia aggression. In contrast the Chinese did not lift a finger when Thailand attacked Cambodia and even annexed the country.


How can Thai would be Chinese target when they could not defeat Myanmar, In South East Asia, You cant ignore the role of Myanmar, their history book is thick same as our. Your comparison make people think we envy with Thai while we almost dont care Thai . We have thing to proud, dont need to compare to anyone, If we want to compare with someone, Im sure Thai in the end list


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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> How can Thai would be Chinese target when they could not defeat Myanmar, In South East Asia, You cant ignore the role of Myanmar, their history book is thick same as our. Your comparison make people think we envy with Thai while we almost dont care Thai . We have thing to proud, dont need to compare to anyone, If we want to compare with someone, Im sure Thai in the end list


Thai army sucks but they are smart in diplomacy. They are the only one country that successful avoided colonialism. No offense but the Siamese are shameless having no pride. They cooperate with everybody that brings benefits. They change friends and enemies like other people changing underwear. Sometimes I think We should learn from them, their way of dealing with crisis.

Look, when they heard we conquered Champa making the populace to slaves, the Siamese were quick to send envoy to Vietnam to voluntarily surrender. Why? They wanted to avoid a Vietnamese invasion, knowing they had no chance in an encounter with Vietnamese army.

Have you ever been to Thailand? Chinese and Thai people are a perfect pair.

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> Thai army sucks but they are smart in diplomacy. They are the only one country that successful avoided colonialism. No offense but the Siamese are shameless having no pride. They cooperate with everybody that brings benefits. They change friends and enemies like other people changing underwear. Sometimes I think We should learn from them, their way of dealing with crisis.
> 
> Look, when they heard we conquered Champa making the populace to slaves, the Siamese were quick to send envoy to Vietnam to voluntarily surrender. Why? They wanted to avoid a Vietnamese invasion, knowing they had no chance in an encounter with Vietnamese army.
> 
> Have you ever been to Thailand? Chinese and Thai people are a perfect pair.


Thai history before WW2 is not bad, they lived and fought between two giant empire Khmer and Myanmar. They can live and develop like nowadays, Actually their soldiers tradition are good but their habit from WW2 make them badly now. No. I never have been to Thai. Only in Vietnam, foreigners are dangerous ) In VN, you only can be died by traffic. when I was child people always said if im not good, i will be sold to China, hi

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> Thai history before WW2 is not bad, they lived and fought between two giant empire Khmer and Myanmar. They can live and develop like nowadays, Actually their soldiers tradition are good but their habit from WW2 make them badly now. No. I never have been to Thai. Only in Vietnam, foreigners are dangerous ) In VN, you only can be died by traffic. when I was child people always said if im not good, i will be sold to China, hi


Traffic in VN is not for weaklings.

I tend to say Chinese clown but calling the Siamese as clown is an understatement. Anyway, personally I have nothing against the Thai. They eat food by chopstick like our people, so that's ok we should be friends. Sis You are told will be sold to China if you are bad? Really? Ha ha ha ...That is harsh. In the western world the kids are told to be kidnapped by black men if they don't behave.

Seriously, the army needs more money more modern tanks, warships and airplanes.

Islands in midst of ocean as launch pad for ICBM.

Two new domestic made corvettes enter service. Vietnam needs more. A lot more.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Traffic in VN is not for weaklings.
> 
> I tend to say Chinese clown but calling the Siamese as clown is an understatement. Anyway, personally I have nothing against the Thai. They eat food by chopstick like our people, so that's ok we should be friends. Sis You are told will be sold to China if you are bad? Really? Ha ha ha ...That is harsh. In the western world the kids are told to be kidnapped by black men if they don't behave.
> 
> Seriously, the army needs more money more modern tanks, warships and airplanes.
> 
> Islands in midst of ocean as launch pad for ICBM.
> 
> Two new domestic made corvettes enter service. Vietnam needs more. A lot more.
> 
> 
> View attachment 430331
> View attachment 430332
> View attachment 430333
> View attachment 430334
> View attachment 430335
> View attachment 430336
> View attachment 430337
> View attachment 430338
> 
> 
> View attachment 430341
> View attachment 430342
> View attachment 430343
> View attachment 430344



What Vietnam needs is less corruption, everything is corrupted, including the military. Its a cancer.

1.5 million usd to buy a post at the national assembly. How about that? And when the news come out, the judge tries to hide it. So much for anti corruption campaign.



Viet said:


> Thai army sucks but they are smart in diplomacy. They are the only one country that successful avoided colonialism. No offense but the Siamese are shameless having no pride. They cooperate with everybody that brings benefits. They change friends and enemies like other people changing underwear.



Totally correct.

They don't even have any problem with the fact that they are the whorehouse of the world. If it bring money, no problem. National pride and reputation are non issues.


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## xiao qi

Carlosa said:


> What Vietnam needs is less corruption, everything is corrupted, including the military. Its a cancer.
> 
> 1.5 million usd to buy a post at the national assembly. How about that? And when the news come out, the judge tries to hide it. So much for anti corruption campaign.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally correct.
> 
> They don't even have any problem with the fact that they are the whorehouse of the world. If it bring money, no problem. National pride and reputation are non issues.


I don't believe this such campaign, almost It wants to eliminate the opposite to get more locations for themselves.


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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> I don't believe this such campaign, almost It wants to eliminate the opposite to get more locations for themselves.



Yes, I know, the VCP secretary is getting rid of former PM Dung's allies.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> What Vietnam needs is less corruption, everything is corrupted, including the military. Its a cancer.
> 
> 1.5 million usd to buy a post at the national assembly. How about that? And when the news come out, the judge tries to hide it. So much for anti corruption campaign.


Corruption is a big cancer no doubt, VN will never progress if corruption persists. I wonder how someone has $1.5 million left to buy a seat at the parliament? With that amount I can buy a nice apartment in Germany ha ha ha.

Sharpshooter

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Corruption is a big cancer no doubt, VN will never progress if corruption persists. I wonder how someone has $1.5 million left to buy a seat at the parliament? With that amount I can buy a nice apartment in Germany ha ha ha.
> 
> Sharpshooter
> 
> View attachment 430464
> View attachment 430463



Well, if someone is willing to pay 1.5 million for a post there, you can imagine that they are going to make a lot more than that once there and that tells you everything.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Well, if someone is willing to pay 1.5 million for a post there, you can imagine that they are going to make a lot more than that once there and that tells you everything.


he or she certainly has more money for sure. but giving $1.5 million for a parliament seat that only has limited influence? the real power in VN is in the hand of politbuero and central commitee. for $1.5 million you can buy this villa in Hamburg.

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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> What Vietnam needs is less corruption, everything is corrupted, including the military. Its a cancer.
> 
> 1.5 million usd to buy a post at the national assembly. How about that? And when the news come out, the judge tries to hide it. So much for anti corruption


The judge need to check what kind of news first to make sure that she wont lie abt it.

In my opinion, VN system is less corrupted and easier to lean corruption than EU, US system cos they (Eau,US ) legalize corruption. Everyone know that US senators are propeties of some sick bussiness groups, such as gun manufacturing groups. So, US govt. just simply can not stop those sick bussiness group to keep selling guns to some spycho love killing innocent ppl .

In VN, everyone will be in jail if they break the law, but in EU, US if some rich spycho break the law, then he ( such as Donald Trump ) will legalize it and even become president .

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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> The judge need to check what kind of news first to make sure that she wont lie abt it.
> 
> In my opinion, VN system is less corrupted and easier to lean corruption than EU, US system cos they (Eau,US ) legalize corruption. Everyone know that US senators are propeties of some sick bussiness groups, such as gun manufacturing groups. So, US govt. just simply can not stop those sick bussiness group to keep selling guns to some spycho love killing innocent ppl .
> 
> In VN, everyone will be in jail if they break the law, but in EU, US if some rich spycho break the law, then he ( such as Donald Trump ) will legalize it and even become president .



There is corruption everywhere but its one thing when it only happens at the upper levels and you don't feel it and its another thing like in VN where it happens at the upper levels where is virtually legalized because the whole system and everybody in it is corrupted (and many that complained ended up in jail for "anti state propaganda") and its up in your face everywhere like you go to the hospital and they ask you for money, you need to do paperwork about land / property or other documents and they ask you for money, the traffic police ask you for money, the teachers ask you for money, you need to import or export something and the Customs people ask you for money and same like that everywhere. No, Its far, far worse than in EU. There is a corruption ranking and VN is up there as one of the most corrupted countries in the world and recently in another ranking for ASEAN it came out as the most corrupted country in ASEAN.



Viva_Viet said:


> In VN, everyone will be in jail if they break the law,



Not if they have "friends" in the system. It happens all the time.


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> There is corruption everywhere but its one thing when it only happens at the upper levels and you don't feel it and its another thing like in VN where it happens at the upper levels where is virtually legalized because the whole system and everybody in it is corrupted (and many that complained ended up in jail for "anti state propaganda") and its up in your face everywhere like you go to the hospital and they ask you for money, you need to do paperwork about land / property or other documents and they ask you for money, the traffic police ask you for money, the teachers ask you for money, you need to import or export something and the Customs people ask you for money and same like that everywhere. No, Its far, far worse than in EU. There is a corruption ranking and VN is up there as one of the most corrupted countries in the world and recently in another ranking for ASEAN it came out as the most corrupted country in ASEAN.
> 
> 
> 
> Not if they have "friends" in the system. It happens all the time.


Oh, really ?? Can anyone having "friends" in the VN system sell Ak-47 to some spycho to kill innocent ppl like in US, EU ?? The answer obviously is No ! Its illegal and will be pt in jail.

But why spycho in EU,US can buy guns easilly ?? Bcs your corrupted system legalize it,so innocent ppl killed by spycho never stop in EU,US till the dirty system of capitalism collapse.

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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> Oh, really ?? Can anyone having "friends" in the VN system sell Ak-47 to some spycho to kill innocent ppl like in US, EU ?? The answer obviously is No ! Its illegal and will be pt in jail.
> 
> But why spycho in EU,US can buy guns easilly ?? Bcs your corrupted system legalize it,so innocent ppl killed by spycho never stop in EU,US till the dirty system of capitalism collapse.



That particular action in USA does not justify the corruption in VN or makes the corruption in VN any better.

Lots of people that break the law in VN get away with no problems and everybody in VN knows that. You can cherry pick one particular action if you like, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation there.


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> That particular action in USA does not justify the corruption in VN or makes the corruption in VN any better.
> 
> Lots of people that break the law in VN get away with no problems and everybody in VN knows that. You can cherry pick one particular action if you like, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation there.


They break the law, but we dont legalize it, that mean they are still crimials and will be arrested once day.

But in EU,US dirty bussiness group do bad things to innocent pple everyday ( ex selling guns to spycho to kill ppl) but No one can arrest them cos its legal.

VN will fix all mistake we make, we have No "too big too fall" group. But EU, US can not fix they corruption cos their capitalist system is corrupted to the core like Karl Marx said.

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## TenLua

Viva_Viet said:


> Oh, really ?? Can anyone having "friends" in the VN system sell Ak-47 to some spycho to kill innocent ppl like in US, EU ?? The answer obviously is No ! Its illegal and will be pt in jail.
> 
> But why spycho in EU,US can buy guns easilly ?? Bcs your corrupted system legalize it,so innocent ppl killed by spycho never stop in EU,US till the dirty system of capitalism collapse.



It's not what it seems. Citizens should have a right to arm themselves against a tyrannical government. The US constitution is a masterpiece that protect the people against their ruler. Say what you like about the US, I know it is not perfect, but the citizens here enjoy freedom that neither Vietnam nor china can match. We can say what we want about our government, try that in either VN or china and you will be put in prison. Why is that? Because their elites are afraid of losing power and control. 

china does not have a government, what they do have is a business and the people are the employee. They are not allowed to own land but are allowed to lease their land for a maximum of 70 years. That is not a government by the people and/or for the people. That is an oligarchy that oppress the people. Vietnam as she stand is no better. You have incompetent, uneducated people running a country. As a result, the people will have to suffer poverty for longer than they should.

Sure, you can wars, but what is the point of victory when the victors envy the loser and want what they have? Victors should progress and flourish, and not come home to a country where the people are stuck in a survival mentality that do not have the luxury of being civilized. 

Which brings us to mass shooting in the US. What you see here is not the work of psycho going on killing spree, what you see are false flag carried out by the ruling elites of the US via FBI, CIA, dyncorp, etc...This isn't a conspiracy, it's a well known fact. For example, sandy hook, where a mass shooting was stage to take away guns from citizens. Eversince 9/11, the rights of American citizens have slowly eroded to what we have today, a police surveillance state. American are losing more rights as we speak.

American have had the right to bare arms since the beginning. The wild west was when you saw people getting in gun fights on a daily basis but there wasnt a problem then. Why now? Guns aren't the problem, a psychopathic government is. That is where the most heinous crimes and corruptions come from; government, ruling elites, oligarchs. You think American citizens want to invade and bomb other countries? They couldnt care less, it is our government that is doing all the killings, foreign and domestic.

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## Viva_Viet

Btw, I think I should explain how capitalist system work and how VN system work to make ppl understand more and know which system will last longer.

During economy crisis in 2008, lots of banks in US was on the brink of collapse. To avoid collapse, those private banks force US govt,which is the puppet of Wall st. tycoons, to give them money from Tax cos they are "too big too fall" ( actually who cares if they fall ???). And till now, ppl still dont know if they pay back all Tax they "borrow" from poor pple or not but we can see the number of guns selling to sypcho is increasing rapidlly leading to more mass killing ppl in EU,US.

So, how corrupted EU,US capitalist system work ?? They take money from poor ppl when having finace problem. If pple protest against what they do, then they sell dirty things like guns to spycho to make money to pay back a part of the debt and also let those bastards kill innocent ppl .

Why ppl in EU,US can not change the law to put those bad tycoons in jail ?? Bcs US,EU govt system ( including police, army ) is owned by diry white tycoons. Police will shoot u death if u dare to change the law written to protect white tycoon.



TenLua said:


> It's not what it seems. Citizens should have a right to arm themselves against a tyrannical government. The US constitution is a masterpiece that protect the people against their ruler. Say what you like about the US, I know it is not perfect, but the citizens here enjoy freedom that neither Vietnam nor china can match. We can say what we want about our government, try that in either VN or china and you will be put in prison. Why is that? Because their elites are afraid of losing power and control.
> 
> china does not have a government, what they do have is a business and the people are the employee. They are not allowed to own land but are allowed to lease their land for a maximum of 70 years. That is not a government by the people and/or for the people. That is an oligarchy that oppress the people. Vietnam as she stand is no better. You have incompetent, uneducated people running a country. As a result, the people will have to suffer poverty for longer than they should.
> 
> Sure, you can wars, but what is the point of victory when the victors envy the loser and want what they have? Victors should progress and flourish, and not come home to a country where the people are stuck in a survival mentality that do not have the luxury of being civilized.
> 
> Which brings us to mass shooting in the US. What you see here is not the work of psycho going on killing spree, what you see are false flag carried out by the ruling elites of the US via FBI, CIA, dyncorp, etc...This isn't a conspiracy, it's a well known fact. For example, sandy hook, where a mass shooting was stage to take away guns from citizens. Eversince 9/11, the rights of American citizens have slowly eroded to what we have today, a police surveillance state. American are losing more rights as we speak.
> 
> American have had the right to bare arms since the beginning. The wild west was when you saw people getting in gun fights on a daily basis but there wasnt a problem then. Why now? Guns aren't the problem, a psychopathic government is. That is where the most heinous crimes and corruptions come from; government, ruling elites, oligarchs. You think American citizens want to invade and bomb other countries? They couldnt care less, it is our government that is doing all the killings, foreign and domestic.


First, pls dont talk abt CN system, thats a stupid sytem, waste time to talk, bro.

Second, its surely safer if no one have guns than everyone have gun, correct ?? Even u have gun, but a spycho suddently shoot u from 32th floor, can u fire back wt just a pistol ?? Is it fair when a spycho get a much better gun to fire at u ??


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## Viva_Viet

Thats how corrupted US,EU capitalist system work. Ppl obviously dont need their govt cos those govts are just puppets of dirty white tycoon, but they can not get rid of it cos police will kill them mercilessly. The law in EU,US is written to protect dirty white tycoons, not protecting ppl.

How VN sytem work ?? During war against French colony and VN war against US imperialism, VN system was very clean, corrupted guys would be put in jail or executed in short time. Thanks to the help of communist block and friends around the world and also thanks to clean system that Ho Chi Minh created, VN defeated both French and US to get back independence.

After Soviet collapse, VN has no choice but to negotiate with our enemies to avoid collapse. VN govt has No experience in running bussness, so we gave too many power to state owned companies and promoted low educated ppl to important position and thats lead to a serious corruption in our system( low educated ppl try to buy fake Ph.D certificate to get a higher pos and then also let their relatives to keep high pos in the state companies,too ).

But things changed, we start reducing the number of officers working for Govt, start cleaning the corruption and open wider the market for friendly nations to come and invest.

VN can clean the corruption cos its illegal in VN, our system also was so clean during the wars. But EU,US capitalist system can not clean it cos if u try to clean it, it means u also have to wipe out those diry tycoon doing nothing good for u but taking Tax from u and selling guns to spycho to kill u for fun.

So, which system will last longer ??


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Thats how corrupted US,EU capitalist system work. Ppl obviously dont need their govt cos those govts are just puppets of dirty white tycoon, but they can not get rid of it cos police will kill them mercilessly. The law in EU,US is written to protect dirty white tycoons, not protecting ppl.
> 
> How VN sytem work ?? During war against French colony and VN war against US imperialism, VN system was very clean, corrupted guys would be put in jail or executed in short time. Thanks to the help of communist block and friends around the world and also thanks to clean system that Ho Chi Minh created, VN defeated both French and US to get back independence.
> 
> After Soviet collapse, VN has no choice but to negotiate with our enemies to avoid collapse. VN govt has No experience in running bussness, so we gave too many power to state owned companies and promoted low educated ppl to important position and thats lead to a serious corruption in our system( low educated ppl try to buy fake Ph.D certificate to get a higher pos and then also let their relatives to keep high pos in the state companies,too ).
> 
> But things changed, we start reducing the number of officers working for Govt, start cleaning the corruption and open wider the market for friendly nations to come and invest.
> 
> VN can clean the corruption cos its illegal in VN, our system also was so clean during the wars. But EU,US capitalist system can not clean it cos if u try to clean it, it means u also have to wipe out those diry tycoon doing nothing good for u but taking Tax from u and selling guns to spycho to kill u for fun.
> 
> So, which system will last longer ??


Blaming others won't bring any country forward.

VN needs to reduce restrictions and burdens on doing business. Less unnecessary requirements. The tax system must be transparent. It can't be, we rank 60 on WEF ease of doing business but Singapore ranks 2. If people need that and this paper for doing a thing then corruption will continue. State employees hold the hand and ask for money. Take Germany. Sometimes ago when I wanted to start a business in computer engineering, the only thing I needed to do was writing an informal letter to the tax office. "Hey there! be informed I want to start a company with me as the boss, please give me a tax code". That's all. My company was registered and it costs me nothing for registration. Good, I have an university degree, proving I am qualified, thing is easier than someone who hasn't.

In that case unqualified employer will hire people with degree.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Blaming others won't bring any country forward.
> 
> VN needs to reduce restrictions and burdens on doing business. Less unnecessary requirements. The tax system must be transparent. It can't be, we rank 60 on WEF ease of doing business but Singapore ranks 2. If people need that and this paper for doing a thing then corruption will continue. State employees hold the hand and ask for money. Take Germany. Sometimes ago when I wanted to start a business in computer engineering, the only thing I needed to do was writing an informal letter to the tax office. "Hey there! be informed I want to start a company with me as the boss, please give me a tax code". That's all. My company was registered and it costs me nothing for registration. Good, I have an university degree, proving I am qualified, thing is easier than someone who hasn't.
> 
> In that case unqualified employer will hire people with degree.


Bro, I just feel funny when someone think VN system is corrupted like cancer while they dont know that US,EU system are far corrupted than VN. The different is that corruption in VN is illegal while in EU,US its Legal and they call it by flowery words like "lobby money".

Of course VN will try hard to clean corruption and we can do it. But capitalist system can not.

U think German system look good ?? Just bcs daddy US make German system look good, not bcs German ppl is smart enough to create good system. German and JP only good at making mess to their countries like in WW2 and finnaly die in this mess.

Without daddy US, Soviet union will come and annex their lands, and their "transparent system" will be not powerful enough to stop Soviet/Russia invasion while VN surely will deafeat any invaders again and again.


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Bro, I just feel funny when someone think VN system is corrupted like cancer while they dont know that US,EU system are far corrupted than VN. The different is that corruption in VN is illegal while in EU,US its Legal and they call it by flowery words like "lobby money".
> 
> Of course VN will try hard to clean corruption and we can do it. But capitalist system can not.
> 
> U think German system look good ?? Just bcs daddy US make German system look good, not bcs German ppl is smart enough to create good system. German and JP only good at making mess to their countries like in WW2 and finnaly die in this mess.
> 
> Without daddy US, Soviet union will come and annex their lands, and their "transparent system" will be not powerful enough to stop Soviet/Russia invasion while VN surely will deafeat any invaders again and again.


I don't know where you get the idea you can bribe individuals in the government or officials or companies. It is strictly forbidden. You will land in jail. I myself can't accept gifts of customers more worth than 20 euro.

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## xiao qi

Viva_Viet said:


> Bro, I just feel funny when someone think VN system is corrupted like cancer while they dont know that US,EU system are far corrupted than VN. The different is that corruption in VN is illegal while in EU,US its Legal and they call it by flowery words like "lobby money".
> 
> Of course VN will try hard to clean corruption and we can do it. But capitalist system can not.
> 
> U think German system look good ?? Just bcs daddy US make German system look good, not bcs German ppl is smart enough to create good system. German and JP only good at making mess to their countries like in WW2 and finnaly die in this mess.
> 
> Without daddy US, Soviet union will come and annex their lands, and their "transparent system" will be not powerful enough to stop Soviet/Russia invasion while VN surely will deafeat any invaders again and again.


Some things you said are right and some are not, the Vietnamese government is really corrupted, too difficult to understand why you suppose the Vietnamese system is better than in western. See the real thing is in VN nobody want to choose to live if they are talent instead of living in the western nation. I don't deny in Western you have money you can buy the law. But In Vietnam, they can do that, it is not clear but exists. Example: Today, one man of Novaland ( one big company was backed by Vietnamese military) was discovered by sex photograph, Had one video, he and his friend raped a girl
so why didn't he arrest for his crime? because of his money and power.Nothing else for something you compared


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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> I don't know where you get the idea you can bribe individuals in the government or officials or companies. It is strictly forbidden. You will land in jail. I myself can't accept gifts of customers more worth than 20 euro.



Hey, never mind that the VCP head of Danang was just fired because he accepted "gifts" (2 houses and 1 car), from businesses. I guess those gifts are not lobbying for favors, right?

By the way, why fired? He should be in jail.



Viet said:


> I don't know where you get the idea you can bribe individuals in the government or officials or companies. It is strictly forbidden. You will land in jail. I myself can't accept gifts of customers more worth than 20 euro.



In western countries, many times politicians get fired and even jailed for receiving improper gifts, money etc. He is not familiar with that.

Granted that USA is very corrupted at the political levels (much more than Europe) and some forms of lobbying are actually legalized corruption. Still, when things come out, people go to jail. Anybody can bring anything up against anybody and anybody can sue the government. Try suing the government in Vietnam or complaining, you go to jail in no time.



Viva_Viet said:


> Of course VN will try hard to clean corruption and we can do it. But capitalist system can not.



No, VN will NOT try hard to clean corruption. Corrupted people can't clean up corruption. What they are doing now is using corruption charges to eliminate the political opposition. Same as Xi has been doing in China.



Viet said:


> Blaming others won't bring any country forward.



Exactly. That's the type of thinking that allows the corruption to continue and thrive.
Hey, don't do anything about the corruption, its not so bad, others have too. Never mind.



Viva_Viet said:


> Bro, I just feel funny when someone think VN system is corrupted like cancer



Yes, corruption in VN is a cancer. Every time they ask businesses what is their number 1 problem, its always the same: corruption, and is getting worse every year.

In what European country or in USA businesses say something like that?



Viva_Viet said:


> *But things changed*, we start reducing the number of officers working for Govt, start cleaning the corruption and open wider the market for friendly nations to come and invest.



Yes, things changed, corruption is getting worse every year, all the polls say that.



TenLua said:


> china does not have a government, what they do have is a business and the people are the employee. They are not allowed to own land but are allowed to lease their land for a maximum of 70 years. That is not a government by the people and/or for the people. *That is an oligarchy that oppress the people*. Vietnam as she stand is no better. You have incompetent, uneducated people running a country. As a result, the people will have to suffer poverty for longer than they should.



That oligarchy is called the government bureaucrats oligarchy. They are a class in itself and they are above everything and everybody.

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## Viet

The army sells stakes in Hà Đô 756 Sài Gòn, a property company. Probably in line of government policy to reduce stakes in private companies and concentrate on the primary role of defense.


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## TenLua

Viva_Viet said:


> Bro, I just feel funny when someone think VN system is corrupted like cancer while they dont know that US,EU system are far corrupted than VN. The different is that corruption in VN is illegal while in EU,US its Legal and they call it by flowery words like "lobby money".
> 
> Of course VN will try hard to clean corruption and we can do it. But capitalist system can not.
> 
> U think German system look good ?? Just bcs daddy US make German system look good, not bcs German ppl is smart enough to create good system. German and JP only good at making mess to their countries like in WW2 and finnaly die in this mess.
> 
> Without daddy US, Soviet union will come and annex their lands, and their "transparent system" will be not powerful enough to stop Soviet/Russia invasion while VN surely will deafeat any invaders again and again.



Viet loves VN as much as the next guy, but tey not to invest too much emotion into this conversation. All he is saying is this: In order to fix a problem, we have to admit that there is a problem. And this goes for individual and state level. You’re not going to fix s flat tire on your car until you know and admit that the tire is flat.

I understand your patriotism. But patriotism in its purest form is simply wanting the best for your countrymen and not blindly believing that your country is the best.

It is a given that the west is also corrupted. Our corruption is legalized. This is true. We call it lobbying. But like someone above me said, this cannot be used a justification for VN’s corruption.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Viet loves VN as much as the next guy, but tey not to invest too much emotion into this conversation. All he is saying is this: In order to fix a problem, we have to admit that there is a problem. And this goes for individual and state level. You’re not going to fix s flat tire on your car until you know and admit that the tire is flat.
> 
> I understand your patriotism. But patriotism in its purest form is simply wanting the best for your countrymen and not blindly believing that your country is the best.
> 
> It is a given that the west is also corrupted. Our corruption is legalized. This is true. We call it lobbying. But like someone above me said, this cannot be used a justification for VN’s corruption.


I want to see our country moving forward, corruption exists everywhere for sure including here in Germany, yes in some forms in the form of lobby groups. But it's not comparable as corruption in Germany is not as annoying as in Vietnam because in VN it is like day light robbery. VN needs reforms needs tools needs to learn from the best to move forward. The world is moving why should we stand still? Germany is a great country but if compared to Switzerland, the Germans feel inferior to the Swiss. The people living behind the great Alpen mountain do better. Much better.

Back to the thread. The key in defeating Chinese army lies in the ability if our intelligent people in the army can crack chinese military communications code. If we know their intention, their movement, we will win the war. They appear to invest huge sum in securing military code, believing quantum secret communications is secure and uncrackable. The thing is the code is created by human and human usually makes mistakes so I am pretty sure human can decrypt the code.

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## Carlosa

TenLua said:


> Viet loves VN as much as the next guy, but tey not to invest too much emotion into this conversation. All he is saying is this: In order to fix a problem, we have to admit that there is a problem. And this goes for individual and state level. You’re not going to fix s flat tire on your car until you know and admit that the tire is flat.
> 
> I understand your patriotism. But patriotism in its purest form is simply wanting the best for your countrymen and not blindly believing that your country is the best.
> 
> It is a given that the west is also corrupted. Our corruption is legalized. This is true. We call it lobbying. But like someone above me said, this cannot be used a justification for VN’s corruption.



*"In order to fix a problem, we have to admit that there is a problem."* Very true. That's how 12 step programs work (to treat addictions such as alcohol, drugs, etc). First have to recognize and accept that you have a problem. Only then can work on fixing the problem.

If you really love your country, you'll try to make it better and you'll be tough with it, not try to overlook or deny the problems in order to "feel good" about it or in order to feed a false sense of nationalistic pride.


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## AViet

Viet said:


> I want to see our country moving forward, corruption exists everywhere for sure including here in Germany, yes in some forms in the form of lobby groups. But it's not comparable as corruption in Germany is not as annoying as in Vietnam because in VN it is like day light robbery. VN needs reforms needs tools needs to learn from the best to move forward. The world is moving why should we stand still? Germany is a great country but if compared to Switzerland, the Germans feel inferior to the Swiss. The people living behind the great Alpen mountain do better. Much better.
> 
> Back to the thread. The key in defeating Chinese army lies in the ability if our intelligent people in the army can crack chinese military communications code. If we know their intention, their movement, we will win the war. They appear to invest huge sum in securing military code, believing quantum secret communications is secure and uncrackable. The thing is the code is created by human and human usually makes mistakes so I am pretty sure human can decrypt the code.



In order to fix the problem, we need to recognize the problem, that is very true. But VN need to recognize the problem by ourselves, from our perspective and with our own means. Never listen to outsiders. 

Regardless to whether the advice given with good purposes or bad hidden agendas (generally bad, if from the West), the outsiders will always give us the wrong way to tackle the problems, because they never understand the problem as we do and what we have to tackle the problem. They just says what they think and what they believe, sometimes what they are made to believe. Stupid belief, e.g. democratic institutions will reduce corruption can only cheat the poor third world countries (poodles of the West), not mature people like Vietnamese.

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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> In order to fix the problem, we need to recognize the problem, that is very true. But VN need to recognize the problem by ourselves, from our perspective and with our own means. Never listen to outsiders.
> 
> Regardless to whether the advice given with good purposes or bad hidden agendas (generally bad, if from the West), the outsiders will always give us the wrong way to tackle the problems, because they never understand the problem as we do and what we have to tackle the problem. They just says what they think and what they believe, sometimes what they are made to believe. Stupid belief, e.g. democratic institutions will reduce corruption can only cheat the poor third world countries (poodles of the West), not mature people like Vietnamese.



But of course, foreigners living in Vietnam are not capable of understanding the problems, have agendas and also don't get input from the vietnamese people that are close to them, they are simply incapable of understanding because they are foreigners. 

Never mind that Vietnam is very often asking for foreign help from governments and institutions to help them do things in a better way in so many fields, oh no, no need for that. Lets do things just the vietnamese way, which is always better, never mind the habits of peeing in the streets, littering everywhere, the beaches always dirty because most vietnamese people don't have much of a consciousness about the environment, etc, etc. How many times did I read articles about groups of foreigners cleaning a beach by themselves because they are shocked of what many vietnamese people do and want to help? Many times, but its probably because those foreigners have some kind of agenda, yes, sure. Vietnam its the way it is because of vietnamese, not because of foreigners, vietnamese are in control of Vietnam, not the other way around and vietnamese people like you and that other one are the type of people that keep it that way.

I'm done, tired of dealing and talking to useless people here.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> In order to fix the problem, we need to recognize the problem, that is very true. But VN need to recognize the problem by ourselves, from our perspective and with our own means. Never listen to outsiders.
> 
> Regardless to whether the advice given with good purposes or bad hidden agendas (generally bad, if from the West), the outsiders will always give us the wrong way to tackle the problems, because they never understand the problem as we do and what we have to tackle the problem. They just says what they think and what they believe, sometimes what they are made to believe. Stupid belief, e.g. democratic institutions will reduce corruption can only cheat the poor third world countries (poodles of the West), not mature people like Vietnamese.


Bro there is a thin line between greatness and stupidity, and sometimes the line is thinner when one walks along an abyss, believing he can fly if falling. Not the West nor democracy are our enemy but incompetence and ignorance.


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## AViet

My English is not so good and cannot say all in one post, but I think everyone understand what I mean to say.


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## Aqsuperman

Well, I guess we out of luck, boys. The CSB 8020 has been striped down to the bare 76mm turret. On the bright side, now our Coast Guard got the biggest gun in the region and as strong as the Philippine Navy.


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## xiao qi

Aqsuperman said:


> Well, I guess we out of luck, boys. The CSB 8020 has been striped down to the bare 76mm turret. On the bright side, now our Coast Guard got the biggest gun in the region and as strong as the Philippine Navy.



Not bad, But You should not drag Philippine in our thread.


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## Viet

New campus building for VietTel academy in the outskirts of Hanoi. The military run company is the army's greatest asset with some $12 billion in revenue in 2016. Should Viettel go public it can be valued $50 billion in market cap. Great stuff: the company can soon replace all foreign telecom devices by domestically developed ones.


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> But of course, foreigners living in Vietnam are not capable of understanding the problems, have agendas and also don't get input from the vietnamese people that are close to them, they are simply incapable of understanding because they are foreigners.
> 
> Never mind that Vietnam is very often asking for foreign help from governments and institutions to help them do things in a better way in so many fields, oh no, no need for that. Lets do things just the vietnamese way, which is always better, never mind the habits of peeing in the streets, littering everywhere, the beaches always dirty because most vietnamese people don't have much of a consciousness about the environment, etc, etc. How many times did I read articles about groups of foreigners cleaning a beach by themselves because they are shocked of what many vietnamese people do and want to help? Many times, but its probably because those foreigners have some kind of agenda, yes, sure. Vietnam its the way it is because of vietnamese, not because of foreigners, vietnamese are in control of Vietnam, not the other way around and vietnamese people like you and that other one are the type of people that keep it that way.
> 
> I'm done, tired of dealing and talking to useless people here.


Communism is Not VN theory. We learn good things from foreigners but seem like some foreigners feel unhappy when we can prove that communism is better then capitalism.

Dont lie abt communism and dont spread that lie to the others, bro. Its true that our govt will try hard to clean corruption cos the govt working for the benefit of Vnese while Govt in EU,US can not do the same, cos they will legalize corruption to protect diry white tycoons who do Nothing good but robbing Tax (cos they are too big to fall ???? ) and selling guns to spychos to kill ppl.


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## TaiShang

*Chinese Consulate General in Vietnam's Da Nang inaugurated*
Xinhua, October 14, 2017

HANOI, Oct. 13 (Xinhua) -- The Chinese Consulate General in Vietnam's central Da Nang city was inaugurated on Friday.

The inauguration was witnessed by more than 400 representatives from various Chinese and Vietnamese institutions.

*The new Chinese Consulate General, the second in Vietnam after that in Ho Chi Minh, covers consular works in the six central localities of Thua Thien-Hue, Da Nang, Quang Nam, Quang Ngai, Binh Dinh and Phu Yen.*

Addressing the inaugural ceremony, Chinese Ambassador to Vietnam Hong Xiaoyong said the establishment of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang is a necessity for the in-depth development of the friendly and cooperative relations between the two countries and is the common aspiration of the two sides to further expand their cooperation sphere.

*The Chinese ambassador hoped the Consulate General will, as always, support the development of the motherland, promote the development of friendly relations between China and Vietnam, contribute to the local socioeconomic development and act as a bridge for the friendship between the two peoples.*

In an interview with Xinhua, Consul General of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang Xi Hui said the establishment of the Chinese Consulate General in the city conforms to the growing need for mutually beneficial cooperation and deepening exchanges between the two sides, which will provide new opportunities for further strengthening their friendly exchanges and comprehensive cooperation.

She said the future work of the Consulate General will focus on three major areas, namely promoting exchanges and cooperation between Chinese cities, provinces and the Vietnamese ones that falls within the coverage of the consulate, acting as a bridge for better understanding and closer friendship between the two sides, and adopting a people-oriented diplomacy approach to safeguarding the legitimate rights and interests of the Chinese citizens and institutions.

Speaking at the ceremony, Nguyen Minh Vu, assistant to the Vietnamese Minister of Foreign Affairs, said the establishment of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang, an economic hub in Vietnam's central region, fully demonstrates that there are good opportunities for better cooperation between the central localities and China, and the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs is willing to assist the work of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang. 

http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2017-10/14/content_41729210.htm


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## Viva_Viet

TaiShang said:


> *Chinese Consulate General in Vietnam's Da Nang inaugurated*
> Xinhua, October 14, 2017
> 
> HANOI, Oct. 13 (Xinhua) -- The Chinese Consulate General in Vietnam's central Da Nang city was inaugurated on Friday.
> 
> The inauguration was witnessed by more than 400 representatives from various Chinese and Vietnamese institutions.
> 
> *The new Chinese Consulate General, the second in Vietnam after that in Ho Chi Minh, covers consular works in the six central localities of Thua Thien-Hue, Da Nang, Quang Nam, Quang Ngai, Binh Dinh and Phu Yen.*
> 
> Addressing the inaugural ceremony, Chinese Ambassador to Vietnam Hong Xiaoyong said the establishment of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang is a necessity for the in-depth development of the friendly and cooperative relations between the two countries and is the common aspiration of the two sides to further expand their cooperation sphere.
> 
> *The Chinese ambassador hoped the Consulate General will, as always, support the development of the motherland, promote the development of friendly relations between China and Vietnam, contribute to the local socioeconomic development and act as a bridge for the friendship between the two peoples.*
> 
> In an interview with Xinhua, Consul General of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang Xi Hui said the establishment of the Chinese Consulate General in the city conforms to the growing need for mutually beneficial cooperation and deepening exchanges between the two sides, which will provide new opportunities for further strengthening their friendly exchanges and comprehensive cooperation.
> 
> She said the future work of the Consulate General will focus on three major areas, namely promoting exchanges and cooperation between Chinese cities, provinces and the Vietnamese ones that falls within the coverage of the consulate, acting as a bridge for better understanding and closer friendship between the two sides, and adopting a people-oriented diplomacy approach to safeguarding the legitimate rights and interests of the Chinese citizens and institutions.
> 
> Speaking at the ceremony, Nguyen Minh Vu, assistant to the Vietnamese Minister of Foreign Affairs, said the establishment of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang, an economic hub in Vietnam's central region, fully demonstrates that there are good opportunities for better cooperation between the central localities and China, and the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs is willing to assist the work of the Chinese Consulate General in Da Nang.
> 
> http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2017-10/14/content_41729210.htm


Good, CN start realize that supporting Vn is better than fighting against VN. Everytime u guys think abt doing bad thing to VN, u guys should ask yourselves why chairman Mao supported VN to defeat dirty capitalist nations (France, US)


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> No, VN will NOT try hard to clean corruption. Corrupted people can't clean up corruption. What they are doing now is using corruption charges to eliminate the political opposition. Same as Xi has been doing in China.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. That's the type of thinking that allows the corruption to continue and thrive.
> Hey, don't do anything about the corruption, its not so bad, others have too. Never mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, corruption in VN is a cancer. Every time they ask businesses what is their number 1 problem, its always the same: corruption, and is getting worse every year.
> 
> In what European country or in USA businesses say something like that?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, things changed, corruption is getting worse every year, all the polls say that.
> 
> 
> 
> That oligarchy is called the government bureaucrats oligarchy. They are a class in itself and they are above everything and everybody.


In your eyes, even a Vnese like Ho Chi Minh could be a corrupted guy cos he got lots of 'gifts' from CN, Soviet to eliminate the political opposition and did some wrong things like land reforming. But in the end, "gift" from CN,Soviet helped VN to defeat France, US.

Same thing Mr.Trong is doing in VN now, u can keep lying that Corrupted man like him can't clean up corruption, but most of Vnese can see that corruption will be reduce in the future.


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## xiao qi

Viva_Viet said:


> In your eyes, even a Vnese like Ho Chi Minh could be a corrupted guy cos he got lots of 'gifts' from CN, Soviet to eliminate the political opposition and did some wrong things like land reforming. But in the end, "gift" from CN,Soviet helped VN to defeat France, US.
> 
> Same thing Mr.Trong is doing in VN now, u can keep lying that Corrupted man like him can't clean up corruption, but most of Vnese can see that corruption will be reduce in the future.



well, I have the similar opinion as Carlosa, How about Yen Bai, Thanh Hoa issues, why it not be resolved? Mr.Trong only care about BOT, Petro, Mr.Thang, Trinh Xuan Thanh, Vu Huy Hoang..and If you notice, all of them are Mr Dung's ally.BTW, The comparison between HCM and Mr.Trong is not suitable.


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## TaiShang

Viva_Viet said:


> Good, CN start realize that supporting Vn is better than fighting against VN. Everytime u guys think abt doing bad thing to VN, u guys should ask yourselves why chairman Mao supported VN to defeat dirty capitalist nations (France, US)



It is going to get better, my friend. East Asia is bound to rise again. No more infighting. Vietnam and China are ideally positioned not the least because similar governance models.

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## Viet

Welcome Sunil Lanba, chief of India General Staff to Vietnam








After T54/55 upgrade, T62 with 115mm main cannon expectedly comes in line.













Da Nang says has completed with preparation for the incoming Apec summit, where the city will expect 21 country leaders from America, China, Russia, Japan, Korea, Australia and other. Besides the government chiefs, some 10,000 foreign delegates will attend the events. To accommodate the guests, some 14 5-star hotels and many numerous 3-4 star hotels are ready.

The army group 5 (center) will probably be put on alert.

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## Viva_Viet

xiao qi said:


> well, I have the similar opinion as Carlosa, How about Yen Bai, Thanh Hoa issues, why it not be resolved? Mr.Trong only care about BOT, Petro, Mr.Thang, Trinh Xuan Thanh, Vu Huy Hoang..and If you notice, all of them are Mr Dung's ally.BTW, The comparison between HCM and Mr.Trong is not suitable.


 there r 2 points we talk about:
1. Carlosa thinks that corruption in VN like cancer, I also agree wt him. But to me, corruption in EU, US are even worse than in VN cos dirty white tycoons legalize corruption and call it like "lobbying".

2. We can clean corruption while EU, US can not.(This poit, Carlosa disagree wt me cos he try to believe that dirty capitalist system is superior even more than 50 innocent ppl just got killed by a dirty law allowed spycho can buy guns easily )


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Carlosa thinks that corruption in VN like cancer, I also agree wt him. But to me, corruption in EU, US are even worse than in VN cos dirty white tycoons legalize corruption and call it like "lobbying".
> 
> We can clean corruption while EU, US can not.


Lobbying is not corruption. There are rules that everyone has to follow.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Lobbying is not corruption. There are rules that everyone has to follow.


Okay, then is there any rule to stop dirty arm seller selling guns to civilians, so no more mass killing happen ?? any rule to stop Wall st tycoons robbing Tax when they r "too big to fall" ??



TaiShang said:


> It is going to get better, my friend. East Asia is bound to rise again. No more infighting. Vietnam and China are ideally positioned not the least because similar governance models.


YEs, CN should focus on the plan of taking back Taiwan from US. U can get VN's support in this plan if CN give a full support to VN again like during chairman Mao's time


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## xiao qi

Viva_Viet said:


> there r 2 points we talk about:
> 1. Carlosa thinks that corruption in VN like cancer, I also agree wt him. But to me, corruption in EU, US are even worse than in VN cos dirty white tycoons legalize corruption and call it like "lobbying".
> 
> 2. We can clean corruption while EU, US can not.(This poit, Carlosa disagree wt me cos he try to believe that dirty capitalist system is superior even more than 50 innocent ppl just got killed by a dirty law allowed spycho can buy guns easily )


Some of your opinions are right, some are not as my thought, I think cleaning corruption is impossible with any countries, that thing You can make it smaller than. the Vietnamese situation is worse than a big part country in the world, why you tried to compare Vietnam with US, why you don't compare with EU country like England, Sweden, Denmark,..If I remember rightly, Vietnam is one of the worst countries because of corruption in the word based on some statistics.


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## Viva_Viet

xiao qi said:


> Some of your opinions are right, some are not as my thought, I think cleaning corruption is impossible with any countries, that thing You can make it smaller than. the Vietnamese situation is more and worse than a big part country in the world, why you tried to compare Vietnam with US, why you don't compare with EU country like England, Sweden, Denmark,..If I remember rightly, Vietnam is one of the worst countries because of corruption in the word based on some statistics.


England, Sweden, Denmark, Germany etc without US "protection" will not survive, just see how easily Soviet union could occupy East Germany after WW 2. Those countries look good just bcs US make them look good. just imagine what happen in EU when no more US protection ?? They will kill each other like in WW 2 for food again ??

So, Independence country like VN only can compare wt other independence countries like Russia, US, bro.


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## Well.wisher

Veitnam zindabad


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Okay, then is there any rule to stop dirty arm seller selling guns to civilians, so no more mass killing happen ?? any rule to stop Wall st tycoons robbing Tax when they r "too big to fall" ??


You mixed too many things together to a cocktail nobody can drink. Wall Street tycoons? Who are they? If you mean banks too big too fall then what do you think what will happen when a major bank fails?

If a big company goes bankrupt, thousands of jobs will go lost, but if a big bank fails, the entire country will crash. Do you want to see that happening?

Robbing tax money from poor people to save banks? Far from the truth. First the poor have no money there is nothing to rob. Second, the money that saved banks are virtual money created by central banks.

That virtual money never enters real economy.

As for lax gun control, the US is a special case. That has to do with the country tradition. You can't buy guns in such easy way in Europe.



Viva_Viet said:


> England, Sweden, Denmark, Germany etc without US "protection" will not survive, just see how easily Soviet union could occupy East Germany after WW 2. Those countries look good just bcs US make them look good. just imagine what happen in EU when no more US protection ?? They will kill each other like in WW 2 for food again ??
> 
> So, Independence country like VN only can compare wt other independence countries like Russia, US, bro.


Don't talk nonsense bro. The countries you mentioned enjoy the best period in the history. A war in east Asia is much more likely.

A war in Western Europe is as likely as the return of dinosaurs.


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## Svantana

*
Indonesia, Vietnam Step Up Defense Cooperation Amid Regional Challenges








Jakarta.* Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said Indonesia and Vietnam must step up bilateral cooperation in defense and security to address threats in the region, such as terrorism, separatism and cyberwars.

"It's in the best interest of Indonesia and Vietnam to increase efforts to ensure regional peace and prosperity," Ryamizard said during a meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart, Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich, in Jakarta on Friday (13/10).

He added that the Indonesian and Vietnamese defense ministries should increase "coordination, cooperation and flexibility to address and tackle regional and global challenges together," emphasizing that no country can singularly address present-day issues facing the world.

Ryamizard said the international community faces the threat of open war between countries, although he added that this remains unlikely. The actual threats, he said, are terrorism and radicalism, separatism and secessionism, natural disasters, theft of natural resources, border violations and cyberwars.

During their meeting, Ryamizard and Ngo signed a joint vision statement that will serve as guideline across all areas in defense cooperation between Indonesia and Vietnam.

"Among those is continuing to promote areas of cooperation that have been mapped out in the memorandum of understanding Indonesia and Vietnam signed in 2010. [...] Defense industrial cooperation is one of the areas we have agreed upon and signed in the joint vision statement today," Ngo told reporters.

Indonesia and Vietnam will hold a defense policy dialog in 2018 and continue their joint working group on armed forces.

They also agreed to continue exchange programs between high-level delegations and junior officers, while stepping up cooperation between their navies and coastguards, among others.

"We strongly believe the defense cooperation between our two countries will be one of the pillars of the strategic partnership," Ngo said.

Addressing the matter of overlapping claims in their respective exclusive economic zones near the Natuna Sea, which resulted in clashes between the Indonesian and Vietnamese coastguards earlier this year, Ryamizard said affiliated bodies from the two countries will meet to reach an agreement and resolve the issue by the end of this year.

Indonesia and Vietnam established diplomatic relations in 1955, while both countries are members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean).

Nguyễn Phú Trong, secretary general of the Communist Party of Vietnam – the highest political authority in the country – met with President Joko "Jokowi" Widodo during a visit to Jakarta in August. The two leaders agreed to deepen their strategic partnership.

http://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-vietnam-step-up-defense-cooperation-amid-regional-challenges/

----

*Vietnam Want to See Indonesia Defense Products Products*
CHRISTIAN ERDIANTO
Kompas.com - 12/10/2017, 12:26 WIB



Kaplan/Harimau Hitam (Black Tiger) Medium Tank




Badak (Rhino) Fire Support Vehicle




Indonesian Aerospace N-219 Light Utility Transport Aircraft




Makassar Class Landing Platform Dock Ship

JAKARTA, KOMPAS.com - Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Wiranto met with Vietnam Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich at Kemenko Polhukam, Central Jakarta, Thursday (12/10/2017).

In a meeting that lasted about 45 minutes, the two discussed increasing cooperation in the field of defense industry and security in the ASEAN region.

Wiranto said the Vietnamese are interested to see all defense industry products in Indonesia and work together in the form of barter products.

"It has been said that Vietnam's desire to continue to improve defense relations, especially those concerning the defense industry, is also willing to see what Indonesian production can be used by Vietnam," said Wiranto after the meeting.

"They will do a review and will talk about it, I encourage there to be at least interstate products that we can combine, we exchange," he added.

In addition, Ngo Xuan Lich also expressed a desire to establish more intense cooperation related to the security of ASEAN region.

According to Wiranto, Indonesia and Vietnam have the same attention to the security of the region.

Wiranto suggested Ngo Xuan Lich met with Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu and the head of State Intelligence Agency (BIN) Budi Gunawan.

"I suggest to have a more intense meeting here with the Minister of Defense, with the head of BIN and so on, in order to have a common understanding that Vietnam and Indonesia have the same interests to maintain the security of this region, especially ASEAN," Wiranto said.

The meeting between Wiranto and Ngo Xuan Lich is a follow-up to the signing of the memorandum of understanding between the two countries in August.

President Joko Widodo previously discussed three main topics in a meeting with Vietnam Communist Party Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong at the Presidential Palace, Jakarta, Wednesday (8/23/2017).

The three main issues discussed are enhanced cooperation in maritime and fisheries, trade and investment, and regional issues.
http://nasional.kompas.com/read/201...-melihat-produk-industri-pertahanan-indonesia

----
May bring prosperity and goodness to the relations between the two countries

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## Viet

Classic books

"Street without Joy" written by Bernard Fall (1961)


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## Viet

"The quiet American" by Graham Greene (1955)


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> You mixed too many things together to a cocktail nobody can drink. Wall Street tycoons? Who are they? If you mean banks too big too fall then what do you think what will happen when a major bank fails?
> 
> If a big company goes bankrupt, thousands of jobs will go lost, but if a big bank fails, the entire country will crash. Do you want to see that happening?
> 
> Robbing tax money from poor people to save banks? Far from the truth. First the poor have no money there is nothing to rob. Second, the money that saved banks are virtual money created by central banks.
> 
> That virtual money never enters real economy.
> 
> As for lax gun control, the US is a special case. That has to do with the country tradition. You can't buy guns in such easy way in Europe.


When a big private bank fails, the entire capitalist country will crash. Of course I and many pple want to see that thing happen, dirty tycoons must pay for what they did to poor countries like VN, Syria etc

Btw if a big bank fails leading to the crash of the entire country, then thats what Karl Marx said is true abt capitalist system, and ppl need to think abt a better system such as socialist system thats is working well in VN


> Don't talk nonsense bro. The countries you mentioned enjoy the best period in the history. A war in east Asia is much more likely.
> 
> A war in Western Europe is as likely as the return of dinosaurs


then pls explain to me why EU have to join wt US to slap sanction on Russia when he just took back Crime that belong to him long time ago ?? Cos u guys r scared that Russia will annex east Germany again ??

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## katarabhumi

*Indonesian Navy ships visit Ho Chi Minh City*
_Wednesday, 2017-10-18 09:03:02_





_Kri Sultan Iskandar Muda 367 arrives at Ho Chi Minh City’s Nha Rong Port. (Credit: VNA)_

NDO – A squadron of two Indonesian navy Sigma-class guided missile frigates docked at Nha Rong Wharf in Ho Chi Minh City on October 18, beginning their four-day visit to the southern economic hub and their exchange with the Vietnam People's Navy.

The two Sigma-class corvettes, namely Kri Sultan Hasanuddin 366 and Kri Sultan Iskandar Muda 367, have 181 crew members and are led by Lieutenant Colonel Sunmarji Bimoaji, the captain of the 367 vessel.

The guided missile ships have the same specifications, with a displacement of 1,818 tonnes, measuring 90.71 m long, 13.02 m wide and have a 5.2 m draft.

The visit by the Indonesian Navy fleet aims to enhance the cooperation between the two countries' military, and the navies in particular, contributing to promoting the strategic partnership between Vietnam and Indonesia, in an in depth manner with practical benefits.

Representatives from the HCM City agencies, the Ministry of Defence, Military Region 7 Command, the Border Guard Command, and the Vietnamese Navy authorities participated in the welcoming ceremony for the Indonesian frigates.





_The hosts welcome the Indonesian Navy delegation at Nha Rong Wharf. (Credit: tuoitre.vn)_

At the event, Colonel Ha Xuan Xu, a representative of the Vietnam People's Navy Command in the South, conveyed his wish for a successful visit to the Indonesian side.

The colonel also expressed his hope that the friendship between the two countries' military, and the navy in particular, would be increasingly intensified following the visit.

Expressing his sincere gratitude to the hosts for a warm welcome, Captain Sumarji Bimoaji said that the visit would contribute to promoting a fine and comprehensive partnership between the two countries.

During the visit, the commanders, officers and sailors of the Indonesian Navy ships will greet the leaders of the HCM City People's Committee; visit the Military Region 7 Command and Navy Region 2 Command; and take part in sporting activities, as well as exchanges with the hosts’ young navy officers.

The visit by the Indonesian Navy fleet will last until October 21.

http://en.nhandan.com.vn/politics/i...stration-asked-to-follow-practical-needs.html

.

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Lobbying is not corruption. There are rules that everyone has to follow.



I have to disagree here. The majority seem to think that western politics are held to a greater standard than east; this was true, and was the reason for its success. However, since JFK, politics in the west, particularly in the US, have been corrupted by its intelligence community. For example, the common belief is that leaders are elected for their ideas and ability to lead, this is a misconception by those who are misinformed. The reality is, leaders are elected by how susceptible they are to blackmailing. Case in point, donald trump was involved in a case where he and jeffrey epstein ( a billionaire) raped a 13 year old girl. This is well documented. If you look far enough, the white house is full of pedophiles at the mercy of the intelligence community. The intelligence community can access any and all communication of anyone who they direct resource at. They use this information to either destroy or keep in check. But then you ask, who then control the US intelligence community? The oligarchs. If they betray the deep state, they will bury you.

While it is true that there are rules they have to follow, those rules are not what we perceive them to be.

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> When a big private bank fails, the entire capitalist country will crash. Of course I and many pple want to see that thing happen, dirty tycoons must pay for what they did to poor countries like VN, Syria etc
> 
> Btw if a big bank fails leading to the crash of the entire country, then thats what Karl Marx said is true abt capitalist system, and ppl need to think abt a better system such as socialist system thats is working well in VN
> then pls explain to me why EU have to join wt US to slap sanction on Russia when he just took back Crime that belong to him long time ago ?? Cos u guys r scared that Russia will annex east Germany again ??


Weakening Russia economic base is weakening Russia military strength. That is the reason why Germany and the rest support sanctions on Russia. Politics is a dirty business bro.



TenLua said:


> I have to disagree here. The majority seem to think that western politics are held to a greater standard than east; this was true, and was the reason for its success. However, since JFK, politics in the west, particularly in the US, have been corrupted by its intelligence community. For example, the common belief is that leaders are elected for their ideas and ability to lead, this is a misconception by those who are misinformed. The reality is, leaders are elected by how susceptible they are to blackmailing. Case in point, donald trump was involved in a case where he and jeffrey epstein ( a billionaire) raped a 13 year old girl. This is well documented. If you look far enough, the white house is full of pedophiles at the mercy of the intelligence community. The intelligence community can access any and all communication of anyone who they direct resource at. They use this information to either destroy or keep in check. But then you ask, who then control the US intelligence community? The oligarchs. If they betray the deep state, they will bury you.
> 
> While it is true that there are rules they have to follow, those rules are not what we perceive them to be.


Money rules the world so in the past so the present, corruption exists everywhere. However the difference between VN and developed countries like Japan and Singapore lies between street and legal robbery. we are off topic I believe.

K14 pistol made by VN, a clone of Chinese K54


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## Viet

New domestic made aerial surveillance system VQ1-M enters service for the Army group South.

















VN urges the US to do more. Donald Trump increases the US military budget to $620 billion, he shouldn't have any problem giving some dollars to clean up the mess e.i. mines and dioxin contamination created by the US army during the war.


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## xiao qi

Viva_Viet said:


> there r 2 points we talk about:
> 1. Carlosa thinks that corruption in VN like cancer, I also agree wt him. But to me, corruption in EU, US are even worse than in VN cos dirty white tycoons legalize corruption and call it like "lobbying".
> 
> 2. We can clean corruption while EU, US can not.(This poit, Carlosa disagree wt me cos he try to believe that dirty capitalist system is superior even more than 50 innocent ppl just got killed by a dirty law allowed spycho can buy guns easily )



Sure, we can clean corruption? Read these articles : 

https://www.baomoi.com/thuong-ta-vo...nam-truoc-co-phai-la-mot-nguoi/c/23640310.epi

http://tuoitre.vn/thuong-ta-vo-dinh-thuong-toi-dau-co-bi-duoi-khoi-nganh-2017102113373883.htm

http://vietnamnet.vn/vn/thoi-su/quan-lo-kho-tin-cua-thuong-ta-csgt-vo-dinh-thuong-406108.html

http://plo.vn/an-ninh-trat-tu/sau-long-thanh-con-nhung-ai-198559.html

http://vtc.vn/giam-doc-cong-an-dong-nai-thuong-ta-vo-dinh-thuong-co-gi-sai-dau-ma-xu-ly-d358099.html

So do you believe on Vietnamese communist? Lol, If they want to clean corruption, they need to kill 3 million bastards

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## Viva_Viet

xiao qi said:


> Sure, we can clean corruption? Read these articles :
> 
> https://www.baomoi.com/thuong-ta-vo...nam-truoc-co-phai-la-mot-nguoi/c/23640310.epi
> 
> http://tuoitre.vn/thuong-ta-vo-dinh-thuong-toi-dau-co-bi-duoi-khoi-nganh-2017102113373883.htm
> 
> http://vietnamnet.vn/vn/thoi-su/quan-lo-kho-tin-cua-thuong-ta-csgt-vo-dinh-thuong-406108.html
> 
> http://plo.vn/an-ninh-trat-tu/sau-long-thanh-con-nhung-ai-198559.html
> 
> http://vtc.vn/giam-doc-cong-an-dong-nai-thuong-ta-vo-dinh-thuong-co-gi-sai-dau-ma-xu-ly-d358099.html
> 
> So do you believe on Vietnamese communist? Lol, If they want to clean corruption, they need to kill 3 million bastards


At least u can have a solution (even thats not smart idea) for our system. But for capitalist system, u can do Nothing to clean corruption cos they just simply legalize it. U can keep believing in capitalist and keep praying every night that no spycho shoot u dead on street next day.

And most of corruption cases happened after Soviet collapse. Its not easy to find a big corruption in VN before 1990.


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## Viva_Viet

Its so funny when ppl here mocking abt VN's corruption when they dont know which system is more corrupted.
- If Wall st banking system (this is private system) got crashed, they will rob Tax from pple. No one here say anything cos they r "too big to failed". Actually thats the Tax robberry. Private banks can not take TAX at any case cos those dont work for the benefit of ppl. Just like a private restaurant can not take Tax if it goes bankrupt.

- If a spycho shoot u dead on street, then no one say anything, too cos "ppl can buy gun" . Actually everyone agree that No gun is much safer than buy gunto protec yourselves. U can not stop arm dealer selling guns cos your lives in Nothing . Actually, thats completely break human rights but u try to believe that is "democracy" cos u still can buy gun .

Dont take some US's vassal states as example to prove that capitalist has a better systems (SK,JP, Germany,Sing etc..) cos those countries will no longer exit without US's protection.

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## Aqsuperman

Da Nang of Vietnam will host the APEC 2017 meeting. Below are the armored vehicles of the heavily armed Mobile Police and the Army

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## Viet

ok no more discussions on corruption please...

this news is a slap on the face of blinded Khmer nationalists: Cambodia inaugurates one more Victory Monument now total 17 over the country, financed by VN money, remembering the Victory of Vietnam over Cambodia under the Red Khmer in 1978. the women holding baby symbolizes the khmer people.

















one of the worst mass murders in the human history: Khmer leader Pol Pot. his regime of terror, if successful, would have led to the killing of nearly the entire population of Cambodia. He especially hated Vietnamese ethnic people in Cambodia.

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## Carlosa

xiao qi said:


> Sure, we can clean corruption? Read these articles :
> 
> https://www.baomoi.com/thuong-ta-vo...nam-truoc-co-phai-la-mot-nguoi/c/23640310.epi
> 
> http://tuoitre.vn/thuong-ta-vo-dinh-thuong-toi-dau-co-bi-duoi-khoi-nganh-2017102113373883.htm
> 
> http://vietnamnet.vn/vn/thoi-su/quan-lo-kho-tin-cua-thuong-ta-csgt-vo-dinh-thuong-406108.html
> 
> http://plo.vn/an-ninh-trat-tu/sau-long-thanh-con-nhung-ai-198559.html
> 
> http://vtc.vn/giam-doc-cong-an-dong-nai-thuong-ta-vo-dinh-thuong-co-gi-sai-dau-ma-xu-ly-d358099.html
> 
> So do you believe on Vietnamese communist? Lol, If they want to clean corruption, they need to kill 3 million bastards



You are wasting your time taking to some people. These people are incapable of accepting reality no matter how much you show it to them; they live in a fantasy world where corruption is getting better in Vietnam, the government is going to clean it up, everything is the fault of foreigners and anyway, should not criticize because other countries also have corruption, therefore its ok to have massive corruption in Vietnam. Its not a cancer, Its just ok and normal, no need to criticize. 

Transparency International ranks India as the most corrupted country in Asia and Vietnam is second. For ASEAN Vietnam is number one. Different organizations may have different ranking, but always with no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption. They also ask many people at random if corruption in the last 3 years got better, worse or the same and the results are 57% worse which is also what articles in Vietnamese newspapers report (even that the press is censored and controlled by the government), people keep saying that its getting worse every year and then some ultranationalistic fools here pretend that no, its getting better. People thinking this way are part of the problem. Waste of time to talk to this people.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> You are wasting your time taking to some people. These people are incapable of accepting reality no matter how much you show it to them; they live in a fantasy world where corruption is getting better in Vietnam, the government is going to clean it up, everything is the fault of foreigners and anyway, should not criticize because other countries also have corruption, therefore its ok to have massive corruption in Vietnam. Its not a cancer, Its just ok and normal, no need to criticize.
> 
> Transparency International ranks India as the most corrupted country in Asia and Vietnam is second. For ASEAN Vietnam is number one. Different organizations may have different ranking, but always with no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption. They also ask many people at random if corruption in the last 3 years got better, worse or the same and the results are 57% worse which is also what articles in Vietnamese newspapers report (even that the press is censored and controlled by the government), people keep saying that its getting worse every year and then some ultranationalistic fools here pretend that no, its getting better. People thinking this way are part of the problem. Waste of time to talk to this people.


To be fair, the root of corruption goes back to the days of capitalist Republic Vietnam.


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## warzone

Viva_Viet said:


> Its so funny when ppl here mocking abt VN's corruption when they dont know which system is more corrupted.
> - If Wall st banking system (this is private system) got crashed, they will rob Tax from pple. No one here say anything cos they r "too big to failed". Actually thats the Tax robberry. Private banks can not take TAX at any case cos those dont work for the benefit of ppl. Just like a private restaurant can not take Tax if it goes bankrupt.
> 
> - If a spycho shoot u dead on street, then no one say anything, too cos "ppl can buy gun" . Actually everyone agree that No gun is much safer than buy gunto protec yourselves. U can not stop arm dealer selling guns cos your lives in Nothing . Actually, thats completely break human rights but u try to believe that is "democracy" cos u still can buy gun .
> 
> Dont take some US's vassal states as example to prove that capitalist has a better systems (SK,JP, Germany,Sing etc..) cos those countries will no longer exit without US's protection.



Why saying communist regime work when it all fall apart everywhere??? Viet Nam is corrupted from the lowest official to the top official, almost everything have a price tag in Viet Nam. In wealthy countries, the corruption is more concentrated on the top, less visible … Ever try to bribe a cop for a traffic ticket or buy your driver license in Europe or USA? Lobbying doesn't guarantee you anything, it just putting pressure on something you want. The corruption in Viet Nam is so bad that even the food are unsafe to eat, government jobs are for sale, plenty of fake education certificates and government officials (especially the traffic cops) are among the most hated individuals in the society and we all know the reasons beside you…. . And almost all the big villas are belonging to government executives/leadership and Vnese tycoons connected to the Party. Viet Nam was saved from starvation and poverty in late 1980s by adapting capitalism policies. If Vietnamese communist society was so great, why millions Viets (both North and South) fled the country? Today Viet Nam is a (almost)free market and capitalist country, the only thing that is communist is the communist party and it politics.

How Cuba the communist paradise island is doing? I have been in Cuba many times (about 5 times) , it freaking poor, every buildings look like it will collapse anytime and most people live in misery with less 30$ US a month (all they want is to get the hell out…) and are willing to do anything for few dollars.. . The Cubans are still riding bicycles and horses carriages because gasoline and cars are too expensive. It’s just as corrupted as VN, you can buy almost everything with money in Cuba (and it's much cheaper than VN) . And please don’t tell me about their best medical care (it only for tourists with big money from insurance), average Cubans with no money have third world class care (inside dirty old building with old equipments). Cuba is sending their best doctors and nurses outside to pay their debts. Cuba still survive today because of the western tourists and dollars (Cuba have the best beaches in the Caribbean) and donations from others countries (like the rice from VN). Capitalism is not great but it’s better than communist (jailed everyone that criticized their unpractical politics and economic decisions). Stop trying to sell your crap communist propaganda, if you love so much the communist then go live in Cuba or North Korea.

Also, if you think you can’t buy illegal guns in VN, go watch those VN cop videos Nhat ky 141 on youtube… It freaking scary seeing people get pull over with pistols, rifles, grenades in VN cities...

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> To be fair, the root of corruption goes back to the days of capitalist Republic Vietnam.



So you are talking about the south, right?



warzone said:


> Viet Nam is corrupted from the lowest official to the top official, almost everything have a price tag in Viet Nam.



That's exactly how it is and everybody in Vietnam knows that.



warzone said:


> Why saying communist regime work when it all fall apart everywhere??? Viet Nam is corrupted from the lowest official to the top official, almost everything have a price tag in Viet Nam. In wealthy countries, the corruption is more concentrated on the top, less visible … Ever try to bribe a cop for a traffic ticket or buy your driver license in Europe or USA? Lobbying doesn't guarantee you anything, it just putting pressure on something you want. The corruption in Viet Nam is so bad that even the food are unsafe to eat, government jobs are for sale, plenty of fake education certificates and government officials (especially the traffic cops) are among the most hated individuals in the society and we all know the reasons beside you…. . And almost all the big villas are belonging to government executives/leadership and Vnese tycoons connected to the Party. Viet Nam was saved from starvation and poverty in late 1980s by adapting capitalism policies. If Vietnamese communist society was so great, why millions Viets (both North and South) fled the country? Today Viet Nam is a (almost)free market and capitalist country, the only thing that is communist is the communist party and it politics.
> 
> How Cuba the communist paradise island is doing? I have been in Cuba many times (about 5 times) , it freaking poor, every buildings look like it will collapse anytime and most people live in misery with less 30$ US a month (all they want is to get the hell out…) and are willing to do anything for few dollars.. . The Cubans are still riding bicycles and horses carriages because gasoline and cars are too expensive. It’s just as corrupted as VN, you can buy almost everything with money in Cuba (and it's much cheaper than VN) . And please don’t tell me about their best medical care (it only for tourists with big money from insurance), average Cubans with no money have third world class care (inside dirty old building with old equipments). Cuba is sending their best doctors and nurses outside to pay their debts. Cuba still survive today because of the western tourists and dollars (Cuba have the best beaches in the Caribbean) and donations from others countries (like the rice from VN). Capitalism is not great but it’s better than communist (jailed everyone that criticized their unpractical politics and economic decisions). Stop trying to sell your crap communist propaganda, if you love so much the communist then go live in Cuba or North Korea.
> 
> Also, if you think you can’t buy illegal guns in VN, go watch those VN cop videos Nhat ky 141 on youtube… It freaking scary seeing people get pull over with pistols, rifles, grenades in VN cities...



That's why I said it is a cancer and that's how most Vietnamese see it. That's why most businesses in Vietnam say that their number one problem is corruption. Only party members, cronies that benefit from the corruption and a few idealistic fools that believe the government propaganda say its not that way.


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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> So you are talking about the south, right?
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly how it is and everybody in Vietnam knows that.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I said it is a cancer and that's how most Vietnamese see it. That's why most businesses in Vietnam say that their number one problem is corruption. Only party members, cronies that benefit from the corruption and a few idealistic fools that believe the government propaganda say its not that way.



If you were really from Spain (which I believe you are not), you should care about the deep corruption in your own country and do not point finger to Vietnam.

Vietnam corruption is severe, I know, but not at the level of Spain and a lot of "democratic" countries in the West, including South Europe, Latin America or South Asia. In the West, money can buy everything and rich people never go to jail, but not in Vietnam. In other words, the corruption in Vietnam and the West have different nature. In Vietnam, it is quite easy to be seen in the sense of "lubricant money", but you cannot change the system, policies or laws. In the rich Western countries, corruption is not that open, but with money, you can buy almost everything.

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## Viva_Viet

warzone said:


> Why saying communist regime work when it all fall apart everywhere??? Viet Nam is corrupted from the lowest official to the top official, almost everything have a price tag in Viet Nam. In wealthy countries, the corruption is more concentrated on the top, less visible … Ever try to bribe a cop for a traffic ticket or buy your driver license in Europe or USA? Lobbying doesn't guarantee you anything, it just putting pressure on something you want. The corruption in Viet Nam is so bad that even the food are unsafe to eat, government jobs are for sale, plenty of fake education certificates and government officials (especially the traffic cops) are among the most hated individuals in the society and we all know the reasons beside you…. . And almost all the big villas are belonging to government executives/leadership and Vnese tycoons connected to the Party. Viet Nam was saved from starvation and poverty in late 1980s by adapting capitalism policies. If Vietnamese communist society was so great, why millions Viets (both North and South) fled the country? Today Viet Nam is a (almost)free market and capitalist country, the only thing that is communist is the communist party and it politics.
> 
> How Cuba the communist paradise island is doing? I have been in Cuba many times (about 5 times) , it freaking poor, every buildings look like it will collapse anytime and most people live in misery with less 30$ US a month (all they want is to get the hell out…) and are willing to do anything for few dollars.. . The Cubans are still riding bicycles and horses carriages because gasoline and cars are too expensive. It’s just as corrupted as VN, you can buy almost everything with money in Cuba (and it's much cheaper than VN) . And please don’t tell me about their best medical care (it only for tourists with big money from insurance), average Cubans with no money have third world class care (inside dirty old building with old equipments). Cuba is sending their best doctors and nurses outside to pay their debts. Cuba still survive today because of the western tourists and dollars (Cuba have the best beaches in the Caribbean) and donations from others countries (like the rice from VN). Capitalism is not great but it’s better than communist (jailed everyone that criticized their unpractical politics and economic decisions). Stop trying to sell your crap communist propaganda, if you love so much the communist then go live in Cuba or North Korea.
> 
> Also, if you think you can’t buy illegal guns in VN, go watch those VN cop videos Nhat ky 141 on youtube… It freaking scary seeing people get pull over with pistols, rifles, grenades in VN cities...


Buying illegal gun is not easy and those gund are not manufactured in VN factories or its a simple hand-made guns, they r smuggled from somewhere and we cant stop all smugglers. Those illegal guns are not manufactured in VN when guns selling to spycho in US are legally imported and manufactured in US .

VNese like u dont like communism, then thats your own problem, no one give a damn to u bias view. U r just one of many losers after 1975. We r comparing which system is more corrupted, and ppl can see that US capitalist system is more corrupted and its time for US pple to look for a better system to avoid TAx rob and gun killed.

Dont keep lying. If you dont want a real discussion just bcs u hate communism I will not talk to u again in international forum. *Im here to discuss wt foreigner members* cos VN have many forum for Vnese to discuss abt capitalism vs socialist already .



AViet said:


> If you were really from Spain (which I believe you are not), you should care about the deep corruption in your own country and do not point finger to Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam corruption is severe, I know, but not at the level of Spain and a lot of "democratic" countries in the West, including South Europe, Latin America or South Asia. In the West, money can buy everything and rich people never go to jail, but not in Vietnam. In other words, the corruption in Vietnam and the West have different nature. In Vietnam, it is quite easy to be seen in the sense of "lubricant money", but you cannot change the system, policies or laws. In the rich Western countries, corruption is not that open, but with money, you can buy almost everything.


Yeah, I believe that hes just try to lie to get 50cent for living, ppl can see clearly that which system is more corrupted, but he just keep posting nonsense.If hes a true Spanish, then he will see that Spain having much bigger trouble than VN now.

Bro, we can not win 50cent army on internet, there r too many of them just let them be and hope decent ppl can read our post .


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## TenLua

warzone said:


> Why saying communist regime work when it all fall apart everywhere??? Viet Nam is corrupted from the lowest official to the top official, almost everything have a price tag in Viet Nam. In wealthy countries, the corruption is more concentrated on the top, less visible … Ever try to bribe a cop for a traffic ticket or buy your driver license in Europe or USA? Lobbying doesn't guarantee you anything, it just putting pressure on something you want. The corruption in Viet Nam is so bad that even the food are unsafe to eat, government jobs are for sale, plenty of fake education certificates and government officials (especially the traffic cops) are among the most hated individuals in the society and we all know the reasons beside you…. . And almost all the big villas are belonging to government executives/leadership and Vnese tycoons connected to the Party. Viet Nam was saved from starvation and poverty in late 1980s by adapting capitalism policies. If Vietnamese communist society was so great, why millions Viets (both North and South) fled the country? Today Viet Nam is a (almost)free market and capitalist country, the only thing that is communist is the communist party and it politics.
> 
> How Cuba the communist paradise island is doing? I have been in Cuba many times (about 5 times) , it freaking poor, every buildings look like it will collapse anytime and most people live in misery with less 30$ US a month (all they want is to get the hell out…) and are willing to do anything for few dollars.. . The Cubans are still riding bicycles and horses carriages because gasoline and cars are too expensive. It’s just as corrupted as VN, you can buy almost everything with money in Cuba (and it's much cheaper than VN) . And please don’t tell me about their best medical care (it only for tourists with big money from insurance), average Cubans with no money have third world class care (inside dirty old building with old equipments). Cuba is sending their best doctors and nurses outside to pay their debts. Cuba still survive today because of the western tourists and dollars (Cuba have the best beaches in the Caribbean) and donations from others countries (like the rice from VN). Capitalism is not great but it’s better than communist (jailed everyone that criticized their unpractical politics and economic decisions). Stop trying to sell your crap communist propaganda, if you love so much the communist then go live in Cuba or North Korea.
> 
> Also, if you think you can’t buy illegal guns in VN, go watch those VN cop videos Nhat ky 141 on youtube… It freaking scary seeing people get pull over with pistols, rifles, grenades in VN cities...



I have wondered about this. And this is not an endorsement of communism nor am I trying to justify communism. But it had occurred to me that capitalist states have attacked, dismantled, and subvert every communist country to have ever exist. They all fail or will fail not because of their own doing, but they fail due to an outside force engineering their failure. Venezuela for a current one. Is it because they do not want to see a communist country succeed? Possibly. Why would they do this? The two are not mutually exclusive. They can co-exist so why must one strangle the other?



AViet said:


> If you were really from Spain (which I believe you are not), you should care about the deep corruption in your own country and do not point finger to Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam corruption is severe, I know, but not at the level of Spain and a lot of "democratic" countries in the West, including South Europe, Latin America or South Asia. In the West, money can buy everything and rich people never go to jail, but not in Vietnam. In other words, the corruption in Vietnam and the West have different nature. In Vietnam, it is quite easy to be seen in the sense of "lubricant money", but you cannot change the system, policies or laws. In the rich Western countries, corruption is not that open, but with money, you can buy almost everything.



You are completely missing the point. One form of terminal cancer is no better than the other. It's like saying," I only have colon cancer, but you have blood cancer so that makes me better."

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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> If you were really from Spain (which I believe you are not), you should care about the deep corruption in your own country and do not point finger to Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam corruption is severe, I know, but not at the level of Spain and a lot of "democratic" countries in the West, including South Europe, Latin America or South Asia. In the West, money can buy everything and rich people never go to jail, but not in Vietnam. In other words, the corruption in Vietnam and the West have different nature. In Vietnam, it is quite easy to be seen in the sense of "lubricant money", but you cannot change the system, policies or laws. In the rich Western countries, corruption is not that open, but with money, you can buy almost everything.



Not at the level of Spain? That shows how much you know, another one living in its own fantasy world.



TenLua said:


> You are completely missing the point. One form of terminal cancer is no better than the other. It's like saying," I only have colon cancer, but you have blood cancer so that makes me better."



These type of people don't have enough brains to figure that out. You'll never get through them.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> So you are talking about the south, right?
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly how it is and everybody in Vietnam knows that.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I said it is a cancer and that's how most Vietnamese see it. That's why most businesses in Vietnam say that their number one problem is corruption. Only party members, cronies that benefit from the corruption and a few idealistic fools that believe the government propaganda say its not that way.


Yes I mean south Vietnam. With the arrival of US troops and US dollars, the society along with the people goes downhill as if there isn’t tomorrow, every day can be the last day. Ok If one considers Vietnam has seen constant war after war for more than hundred years, that isn’t a surprise. But now VN enjoys peace so corruption should ease.

Life was not a piece of cake, the elders from the south can tell stories.

Earlier in Germany if someone wanted to get a visa at VN consulate, thing went faster if money was included in the application form. Such annoying practice luckily has stopped.


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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> Transparency International ranks India as the most corrupted country in Asia and Vietnam is second.



tbh, they did not even include all the countries (neither was the measurement components broad, I think it was just survey of bribe taking) so cannot use "Asia"....but I get what you are saying.

Better measure for more broad inclusion of countries (Asia and the world) is CPI (corruption perception index). Vietnam not doing atrociously on it, but can of course improve by a huge amount.

There is also cato freedom index which has measures on corruption and institution within it I believe too for those interested.

Hopefully this thread gets back on topic sooner than later.

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## DarkMoon198

Nilgiri said:


> tbh, they did not even include all the countries (neither was the measurement components broad, I think it was just survey of bribe taking) so cannot use "Asia"....but I get what you are saying.
> 
> Better measure for more broad inclusion of countries (Asia and the world) is CPI (corruption perception index). Vietnam not doing atrociously on it, but can of course improve by a huge amount.
> 
> There is also cato freedom index which has measures on corruption and institution within it I believe too for those interested.
> 
> Hopefully this thread gets back on topic sooner than later.



That survey is based on perception of people about corruption in both countries. Not actual study and statistic about corruption in both countries. The perception might be high at the moment because a lot of case got expose and publish to the public and government trying to solve it. And the sample they survey are small, i think i read somewhere that they interview about 1000 people only
Also the problem lie in culture. Many people in Vietnam still hold the old idea of “Một người làm quan cả họ được nhờ” roughly translate as one person hold the public servant title, he/she will feed the entire families and relatives. It will take decades with education to solve that


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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> tbh, they did not even include all the countries (neither was the measurement components broad, I think it was just survey of bribe taking) so cannot use "Asia"....but I get what you are saying.
> 
> Better measure for more broad inclusion of countries (Asia and the world) is CPI (corruption perception index). Vietnam not doing atrociously on it, but can of course improve by a huge amount.
> 
> There is also cato freedom index which has measures on corruption and institution within it I believe too for those interested.
> 
> Hopefully this thread gets back on topic sooner than later.



That particular corruption perception index from Transparency International is just the latest one that they put out. They also have a very comprehensive perception index that they publish every few years that includes surveys/assessments from business people and performance assessments from a group of analysts and from a number of well known institutions. The latest one is from 2016. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Rankings

In that 2016 index 176 countries are included. Some rankings: Spain 41, Malaysia 55, India & China 79, Indonesia 90, PH & Thailand 101, Vietnam 113, Cambodia 156, N. Korea 176.

Anyway, as I said before, different organizations have different ranking, but the point here is that there is no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption and when the majority of businesses say that corruption is their number one problem, that says everything. Ignoring the problem or pretending that is is not as bad as it is only helps to perpetuate the problem which is what some people here do.



Viet said:


> Yes I mean south Vietnam. With the arrival of US troops and US dollars, the society along with the people goes downhill as if there isn’t tomorrow, every day can be the last day. Ok If one considers Vietnam has seen constant war after war for more than hundred years, that isn’t a surprise. But now VN enjoys peace so corruption should ease.
> 
> Life was not a piece of cake, the elders from the south can tell stories.
> 
> Earlier in Germany if someone wanted to get a visa at VN consulate, thing went faster if money was included in the application form. Such annoying practice luckily has stopped.



I understand that South Vietnam had a corruption issue but considering that south vietnamese government officials were either fired, sent to reeducation camps or killed, I don't see how they can influence the rise of corruption in the north where Hanoi is the main center of government corruption.

It would be nice if corruption would ease because of peace but what I keep reading in the vietnamese newspapers is that both individuals and businesses say that its getting worse every year.

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## Carlosa

European Commission - Press release
*Commission warns Vietnam over insufficient action to fight illegal fishing*
Brussels, 23 October 2017
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-17-4064_en.htm

The European Commission is continuing its fight against illegal, unreported and unregulated (IUU) fishing worldwide by warning Vietnam, with a "yellow card", about the risk of it being identified as a non-cooperating country.

Today's decision highlights that Vietnam is not doing enough to fight illegal fishing. It identifies shortcomings, such as the lack of an effective sanctioning system to deter IUU fishing activities and a lack of action to address illegal fishing activities conducted by Vietnamese vessels in waters of neighbouring countries, including Pacific Small Island Developing States. Furthermore, Vietnam has a poor system to control landings of fish that is processed locally before being exported to international markets, including the EU.

Commissioner for Environment, Maritime Affairs and Fisheries, Karmenu *Vella*, said: _“With this action today we demonstrate our firm commitment to fight illegal fishing globally. We cannot ignore the impact that illegal activities conducted by Vietnamese vessels are having on marine ecosystems in the Pacific. We invite the Vietnamese authorities to step up their fight so we can reverse this decision quickly. We are offering them our technical support."_

The decision does not, at this stage, entail any measures affecting trade. The "yellow card" is considered as a warning and offers the possibility for Vietnam to take measures to rectify the situation within a reasonable timeframe. To this end the Commission has proposed an action plan to support the country in addressing the identified shortcomings.

The Commission decision is a result of a thorough analysis and takes into due account the level of development of the country. It follows a long period of informal discussions with Vietnamese authorities since 2012. Vietnamese authorities are now invited to engage in a formal procedure of dialogue to resolve the identified issues and implement the Action plan.

*Background*

Between 11 and 26 million tonnes of fish, i.e. at least 15% of world catches, are caught illegally a year. This is worth between 8 and 19 billion euros. As the world's biggest fish importer, the EU does not wish to be complicit and accept such products into its market. The so-called 'IUU Regulation', which entered into force in 2010, is the key instrument in the fight against illegal fishing ensuring that only those fishery products that have been certified as legal can access the EU market. With this objective, the Commission maintains bilateral dialogues with more than 50 third countries. When third States are unable to comply with their international obligations as flag, coastal, port and market States, the Commission formalises this process of cooperation and assistance with them to help improve their legal and administrative frameworks to fight against IUU fishing. The steps in this process are first a warning ("yellow card"), a "green card" if issues are solved or a "red card" if they aren't. The latter leads to a listing by the Council, followed by a series of measures for the third country, including a trade ban on fishery products.

Since November 2012 the Commission has been in formal dialogues with several third countries (pre-identification or "yellow card") that have been warned of the need to take strong action to fight IUU fishing. When significant progress is observed, the Commission can end the dialogue (lifting the pre-identification status or "green card"). A few countries have not shown the necessary commitment to reforms. As a result, fisheries products caught by vessels from these countries cannot be imported into the EU (identification and listing or "red card"). A full list of countries is available here.

Fighting illegal fishing is part of the EU's commitment to ensure the sustainable use of the sea and its resources as set out in its International Ocean Governance Agenda. Sustainable fisheries and the fight against IUU were also one of the main topics discussed at the 4th international Our Ocean conference hosted by the European Union in Malta, 5-6 October 2017.


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## Viet

warzone said:


> Why saying communist regime work when it all fall apart everywhere??? Viet Nam is corrupted from the lowest official to the top official, almost everything have a price tag in Viet Nam. In wealthy countries, the corruption is more concentrated on the top, less visible … Ever try to bribe a cop for a traffic ticket or buy your driver license in Europe or USA? Lobbying doesn't guarantee you anything, it just putting pressure on something you want. The corruption in Viet Nam is so bad that even the food are unsafe to eat, government jobs are for sale, plenty of fake education certificates and government officials (especially the traffic cops) are among the most hated individuals in the society and we all know the reasons beside you…. . And almost all the big villas are belonging to government executives/leadership and Vnese tycoons connected to the Party. Viet Nam was saved from starvation and poverty in late 1980s by adapting capitalism policies. If Vietnamese communist society was so great, why millions Viets (both North and South) fled the country? Today Viet Nam is a (almost)free market and capitalist country, the only thing that is communist is the communist party and it politics.
> 
> How Cuba the communist paradise island is doing? I have been in Cuba many times (about 5 times) , it freaking poor, every buildings look like it will collapse anytime and most people live in misery with less 30$ US a month (all they want is to get the hell out…) and are willing to do anything for few dollars.. . The Cubans are still riding bicycles and horses carriages because gasoline and cars are too expensive. It’s just as corrupted as VN, you can buy almost everything with money in Cuba (and it's much cheaper than VN) . And please don’t tell me about their best medical care (it only for tourists with big money from insurance), average Cubans with no money have third world class care (inside dirty old building with old equipments). Cuba is sending their best doctors and nurses outside to pay their debts. Cuba still survive today because of the western tourists and dollars (Cuba have the best beaches in the Caribbean) and donations from others countries (like the rice from VN). Capitalism is not great but it’s better than communist (jailed everyone that criticized their unpractical politics and economic decisions). Stop trying to sell your crap communist propaganda, if you love so much the communist then go live in Cuba or North Korea.
> 
> Also, if you think you can’t buy illegal guns in VN, go watch those VN cop videos Nhat ky 141 on youtube… It freaking scary seeing people get pull over with pistols, rifles, grenades in VN cities...


Just curious what purpose you have been to Cuba? I know cuba beach is great, Cuba libre too, but 5 times? 

Anyway besides Cuba, the other prime example is Venezuela, one can see how ignorance and stupidity ruins a country.

Ah a news at least concerning military activity 

Opening a VN/CN friendship house with the participation of PLA General Fan Changlong at the border to China


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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> I have wondered about this. And this is not an endorsement of communism nor am I trying to justify communism. But it had occurred to me that capitalist states have attacked, dismantled, and subvert every communist country to have ever exist. They all fail or will fail not because of their own doing, but they fail due to an outside force engineering their failure. Venezuela for a current one. Is it because they do not want to see a communist country succeed? Possibly. Why would they do this? The two are not mutually exclusive. They can co-exist so why must one strangle the other?
> 
> "


In fact, US capitalist strangle any countries that dont allow her to exploit/take control like VN, Iran, Syria etc.

US knows that its weakness in the capitalist system is the economic crisis that will happen when the capitalist system produce too much products , much more than ppl's demand leading to the crash of banking system. Just like US's power start getting weaken after 2008 economic crisis leading to the raise of Russia's power . If Mr.Putin is smart enough, then Russia can beat US in Europe and take back East Germany as Soviet did in history.


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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> That particular corruption perception index from Transparency International is just the latest one that they put out. They also have a very comprehensive perception index that they publish every few years that includes surveys/assessments from business people and performance assessments from a group of analysts and from a number of well known institutions. The latest one is from 2016. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Rankings
> 
> In that 2016 index 176 countries are included. Some rankings: Spain 41, Malaysia 55, India & China 79, Indonesia 90, PH & Thailand 101, Vietnam 113, Cambodia 156, N. Korea 176.
> 
> Anyway, as I said before, different organizations have different ranking, but the point here is that there is no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption and when the majority of businesses say that corruption is their number one problem, that says everything. Ignoring the problem or pretending that is is not as bad as it is only helps to perpetuate the problem which is what some people here do.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that South Vietnam had a corruption issue but considering that south vietnamese government officials were either fired, sent to reeducation camps or killed, I don't see how they can influence the rise of corruption in the north where Hanoi is the main center of government corruption.
> 
> It would be nice if corruption would ease because of peace but what I keep reading in the vietnamese newspapers is that both individuals and businesses say that its getting worse every year.



Yah it seems we were talking about the same thing (CPI), my bad.



DarkMoon198 said:


> That survey is based on perception of people about corruption in both countries. Not actual study and statistic about corruption in both countries.



No real way to get hard "non-perception/absolute" stats on corruption....thats the number one problem.

But yes this makes cross country comparison somewhat flawed too since people may perceive differently and have different standards etc....just like the happiness index etc. 

It still gives somewhat of a basis though, and I tend to compare countries using CPI only when they are in same kind of immediate cultural/historical/demographic zone etc...given I can assume the perceptions to be more similar than across much larger distances/differences.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> That particular corruption perception index from Transparency International is just the latest one that they put out. They also have a very comprehensive perception index that they publish every few years that includes surveys/assessments from business people and performance assessments from a group of analysts and from a number of well known institutions. The latest one is from 2016. Here is the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Rankings
> 
> In that 2016 index 176 countries are included. Some rankings: Spain 41, Malaysia 55, India & China 79, Indonesia 90, PH & Thailand 101, Vietnam 113, Cambodia 156, N. Korea 176.
> 
> Anyway, as I said before, different organizations have different ranking, but the point here is that there is no doubt that Vietnam has massive corruption and when the majority of businesses say that corruption is their number one problem, that says everything. Ignoring the problem or pretending that is is not as bad as it is only helps to perpetuate the problem which is what some people here do.
> 
> I understand that South Vietnam had a corruption issue but considering that south vietnamese government officials were either fired, sent to reeducation camps or killed, I don't see how they can influence the rise of corruption in the north where Hanoi is the main center of government corruption.
> 
> It would be nice if corruption would ease because of peace but what I keep reading in the vietnamese newspapers is that both individuals and businesses say that its getting worse every year.



I do not give a dime to the value of Transparency International, which is an US-controlled organization, after they ranked North Korea, one of the cleanest country in the world, at the bottom.

The basic definition of corruption is that with money, you can buy someone to do something. But in North Korea, even with hundred billions US$ to spend, CIA have failed to buy a single one to do things, even the smallest thing, e.g. an explosion, let alone overthrowing the government, like they have done in almost all puppet regimes, including rich countries in the West.

Regarding Spain, your knowledge again confirms my belief that you are not a Spaniard, as you don't know that during construction boom, corrupt officials lobbied to build an airport within a distance of every 60km, leading to many expensive airports now staying idle with no passenger. I do not see that level of corruption in any country.

And I do not bother to quarrel with you about who living in fantasy world now. We will see more clear in next 10 years.

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## proka89

Did you guys know that in 2015 Vietnam signed agreement with Serbian company Krusik, in total worth around 30 million of euros for technology transfer, installation of equipment and modernization of 9M14 Malyutka ATGM. The whole deal is predicted to last 36 months, divided in three phases. 

First phase is delivery of equipment, parts and tools for overhaul and modernisation of the first 50 rockets to the Malyutka 2T (tandem warhead) level. With Krusik technology Vietnam built a factory for overhaul and modernization of these rockets.

Second phase is production of modernization kits, including 2T and 2F warheads in Krusik facilities. It is predicted that Vietnam will overhaul and modernize 2500 of Malytkas. 2000 of them with 2T (tandem) and 500 of them with 2F(thermobaric) warheads.

Third phase is two deliveries of 750 modernization kits each to Vietnam. 

Factory in Vietnam was supposed to start production on 20 September, and to complete the modernization of first 50 rockets by the end of october.

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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> I do not give a dime to the value of Transparency International, which is an US-controlled organization, after they ranked North Korea, one of the cleanest country in the world, at the bottom.
> 
> The basic definition of corruption is that with money, you can buy someone to do something. But in North Korea, even with hundred billions US$ to spend, CIA have failed to buy a single one to do things, even the smallest thing, e.g. an explosion, let alone overthrowing the government, like they have done in almost all puppet regimes, including rich countries in the West.
> 
> Regarding Spain, your knowledge again confirms my belief that you are not a Spaniard, as you don't know that during construction boom, corrupt officials lobbied to build an airport within a distance of every 60km, leading to many expensive airports now staying idle with no passenger. I do not see that level of corruption in any country.
> 
> And I do not bother to quarrel with you about who living in fantasy world now. We will see more clear in next 10 years.



I know plenty more than you about Spain and when you say that VN has less corruption than Spain & EU you show how ignorant you are. And by the way, that type of situation related to construction is "normal" in VN and its been like that for decades. Why do you think the Danang leaders were sanctioned recently? Construction of hotels and resorts in Son Tra forest even that it requires PMs approval which they did not have. How about the resort that paved hectares of sea in Nha Trang bay and only has to pay a small fine, try to find something like that in Europe. How about all the airports and ports built in VN that are not been used and are loosing money like crazy? How about the $500 million museum they want to build in Hanoi?

So I'm not Spanish? And how do you know that I didn't know about all that about Spain? I can tell you plenty more than that about corruption in Spain that you don't know about, but it doesn't change the fact that VN is massively corrupted and certainly far more than Spain or any EU country. Only ignorant fools think otherwise, the same ones that say they don't care about corruption surveys, but we are suppose to care for your useless statements?

---------------------------

This is how "corruption clean up" works in Vietnam; from today news, inform the public about corruption and you get jailed for 6 years for anti state propaganda. Funny, I thought the government wanted to clean corruption.

*Vietnam student activist jailed for six years*
25 Oct 2017 04:24PM (Updated: 25 Oct 2017 04:30PM)

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834

HANOI: A Vietnamese student was sentenced Wednesday (Oct 25) to six years in prison for anti-state propaganda, as the government tightens its grip on critics before an Asia-Pacific summit in the country next month.

Scores of dissidents are already behind bars in the communist state, and rights groups say 2017 has been a particularly harsh year for activists with a spate of arrests and heavy jail sentences.

Phan Kim Khanh, 24, was sentenced for anti-state activities, his lawyer told AFP, blasting the trial as "biased".

"The court decided to put him in jail for six years and another four years on probation afterwards," Ha Huy Son said.

Khanh was arrested in March during his final year of an international studies degree at Thai Nguyen University in northern Vietnam.

He reportedly ran several blogs and YouTube channels where he voiced opinions on corruption and politics.

Son said his client was calm in court Wednesday as he apologized for what he had done.

His sister told AFP Khanh had not broken the law.

"We did not know what he did. But I think he's innocent," Phan Thi Trang said.

Khanh joins scores of dissidents already behind bars.

There is no independent media in the country, though bloggers and activists have become increasingly vocal on social media in recent years.

Analysts say authorities have ramped up a clampdown on activists before an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in November.

Others say the current conservative leadership in power since last year has become bolder in pursuing its critics since the election of US President Donald Trump.

Trump's administration has been accused of turning its back on human rights while seeking overseas trade deals.

Human Rights Watch said foreign governments should put pressure on Vietnam at the APEC meeting.

"International donors and trade partners need to step up pressure on the country's leaders to improve its abysmal rights record, and the APEC summit is a good moment to start," HRW Asia director Brad Adams said in a statement.

The group said at least 28 people have been arrested for "vaguely-interpreted" national security violations over the past year.

Source: AFP/ad
Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834


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## Nike

proka89 said:


> Did you guys know that in 2015 Vietnam signed agreement with Serbian company Krusik, in total worth around 30 million of euros for technology transfer, installation of equipment and modernization of 9M14 Malyutka ATGM. The whole deal is predicted to last 36 months, divided in three phases.
> 
> First phase is delivery of equipment, parts and tools for overhaul and modernisation of the first 50 rockets to the Malyutka 2T (tandem warhead) level. With Krusik technology Vietnam built a factory for overhaul and modernization of these rockets.
> 
> Second phase is production of modernization kits, including 2T and 2F warheads in Krusik facilities. It is predicted that Vietnam will overhaul and modernize 2500 of Malytkas. 2000 of them with 2T (tandem) and 500 of them with 2F(thermobaric) warheads.
> 
> Third phase is two deliveries of 750 modernization kits each to Vietnam.
> 
> Factory in Vietnam was supposed to start production on 20 September, and to complete the modernization of first 50 rockets by the end of october.



Any news about their guidance system?


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## Carlosa

proka89 said:


> Did you guys know that in 2015 Vietnam signed agreement with Serbian company Krusik, in total worth around 30 million of euros for technology transfer, installation of equipment and modernization of 9M14 Malyutka ATGM. The whole deal is predicted to last 36 months, divided in three phases.
> 
> First phase is delivery of equipment, parts and tools for overhaul and modernisation of the first 50 rockets to the Malyutka 2T (tandem warhead) level. With Krusik technology Vietnam built a factory for overhaul and modernization of these rockets.
> 
> Second phase is production of modernization kits, including 2T and 2F warheads in Krusik facilities. It is predicted that Vietnam will overhaul and modernize 2500 of Malytkas. 2000 of them with 2T (tandem) and 500 of them with 2F(thermobaric) warheads.
> 
> Third phase is two deliveries of 750 modernization kits each to Vietnam.
> 
> Factory in Vietnam was supposed to start production on 20 September, and to complete the modernization of first 50 rockets by the end of october.



We knew about this, me and one other poster here had posted about this in detail, but the information from Vietnam about this was that it was an indigenous Vietnamese project, there was no mention at all of a foreign company or assistance so Its very interesting that it was done under license and tech transfer.


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## Viva_Viet

Carlosa said:


> I know plenty more than you about Spain and when you say that VN has less corruption than Spain & EU you show how ignorant you are. And by the way, that type of situation related to construction is "normal" in VN and its been like that for decades. Why do you think the Danang leaders were sanctioned recently? Construction of hotels and resorts in Son Tra forest even that it requires PMs approval which they did not have. How about the resort that paved hectares of sea in Nha Trang bay and only has to pay a small fine, try to find something like that in Europe. How about all the airports and ports built in VN that are not been used and are loosing money like crazy? How about the $500 million museum they want to build in Hanoi?
> 
> So I'm not Spanish? And how do you know that I didn't know about all that about Spain? I can tell you plenty more than that about corruption in Spain that you don't know about, but it doesn't change the fact that VN is massively corrupted and certainly far more than Spain or any EU country. Only ignorant fools think otherwise, the same ones that say they don't care about corruption surveys, but we are suppose to care for your useless statements?
> 
> ---------------------------
> 
> This is how "corruption clean up" works in Vietnam; from today news, inform the public about corruption and you get jailed for 6 years for anti state propaganda. Funny, I thought the government wanted to clean corruption.
> 
> *Vietnam student activist jailed for six years*
> 25 Oct 2017 04:24PM (Updated: 25 Oct 2017 04:30PM)
> 
> http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834
> 
> HANOI: A Vietnamese student was sentenced Wednesday (Oct 25) to six years in prison for anti-state propaganda, as the government tightens its grip on critics before an Asia-Pacific summit in the country next month.
> 
> Scores of dissidents are already behind bars in the communist state, and rights groups say 2017 has been a particularly harsh year for activists with a spate of arrests and heavy jail sentences.
> 
> Phan Kim Khanh, 24, was sentenced for anti-state activities, his lawyer told AFP, blasting the trial as "biased".
> 
> "The court decided to put him in jail for six years and another four years on probation afterwards," Ha Huy Son said.
> 
> Khanh was arrested in March during his final year of an international studies degree at Thai Nguyen University in northern Vietnam.
> 
> He reportedly ran several blogs and YouTube channels where he voiced opinions on corruption and politics.
> 
> Son said his client was calm in court Wednesday as he apologized for what he had done.
> 
> His sister told AFP Khanh had not broken the law.
> 
> "We did not know what he did. But I think he's innocent," Phan Thi Trang said.
> 
> Khanh joins scores of dissidents already behind bars.
> 
> There is no independent media in the country, though bloggers and activists have become increasingly vocal on social media in recent years.
> 
> Analysts say authorities have ramped up a clampdown on activists before an Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in November.
> 
> Others say the current conservative leadership in power since last year has become bolder in pursuing its critics since the election of US President Donald Trump.
> 
> Trump's administration has been accused of turning its back on human rights while seeking overseas trade deals.
> 
> Human Rights Watch said foreign governments should put pressure on Vietnam at the APEC meeting.
> 
> "International donors and trade partners need to step up pressure on the country's leaders to improve its abysmal rights record, and the APEC summit is a good moment to start," HRW Asia director Brad Adams said in a statement.
> 
> The group said at least 28 people have been arrested for "vaguely-interpreted" national security violations over the past year.
> 
> Source: AFP/ad
> Read more at http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...student-activist-jailed-for-six-years-9342834


 U lose all points when keep lying that VN's corruption is worse than your dirty capitalist system. Can u bribe our officers to buy 1,000 guns, open a gun shop and sell gun in VN ?? No, u never can while u can do it in US.

SO, why dont u just shut up , wait and see which system will collapse first ?? EU without daddy US is just a big mess and die again in another hyper inflation. Dont try to pretend as a Spanish.

This one show how stupid German is when living without daddy US.


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## proka89

madokafc said:


> Any news about their guidance system?



This is the recently presented new guidance system for Malytka:







It's on Serbian, but basic info is that this is SACLOS guidance system, possessing TV camera with 12x optical zoom. Hit rate probability of unmoving target is larger than 80%, and hit rate probability of moving target is larger than 60%. Max range is 3000m, min range is 500m, max speed of moving target is 10 m/s.

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## Carlosa

Viva_Viet said:


> lose all point when keep lying that VN's corruption is worse than your dirty capitalist system. Can u bribe our officers to buy 1,000 guns, open a gun shop and sell gun in VN ?? No, u never can while u can do it in US.
> 
> SO, why dont u just shut up , wait and see which system will collapse first ?? EU without daddy US is just a big mess and die again in another hyper inflation. Dont try to pretend as a Spanish.
> 
> This one show how stupid German is when living without daddy US.



Go get a new brain because you are incapable of understanding simple facts that normal people can easily understand. You and Aviet are in a particular category of people that are a waste of time of talk to. You keep mixing different things and keep making absurd statements that 99% of normal people can never accept and you and him talk about how things are in other countries even that you never been there and the people that do live there tell you otherwise. Useless!!!

Same as when you pretended to say the other day that a SU-22 and Shadock missiles (a very large missile, very easy to shutdown) can penetrate chinese air defenses, destroy the chinese navy and save the islands. Only fools can think that way.

I'm done wasting my time with this. Finished.


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## Viva_Viet

AViet said:


> I do not give a dime to the value of Transparency International, which is an US-controlled organization, after they ranked North Korea, one of the cleanest country in the world, at the bottom.
> 
> The basic definition of corruption is that with money, you can buy someone to do something. But in North Korea, even with hundred billions US$ to spend, CIA have failed to buy a single one to do things, even the smallest thing, e.g. an explosion, let alone overthrowing the government, like they have done in almost all puppet regimes, including rich countries in the West.
> 
> Regarding Spain, your knowledge again confirms my belief that you are not a Spaniard, as you don't know that during construction boom, corrupt officials lobbied to build an airport within a distance of every 60km, leading to many expensive airports now staying idle with no passenger. I do not see that level of corruption in any country.
> 
> And I do not bother to quarrel with you about who living in fantasy world now. We will see more clear in next 10 years.


True, NK corruption is as clean as VN before 1990 how come they rank at the bottom ??

As I can see, if US can not make Russia collapse again in 5 years, then US and its vassal state will get in deeper trouble in economic crisis, The whole capitalist system is dying bcs of over producing problem again just like 1933 great depression. They (capitalist nations ) will collapse if they can not exploit and destroy Russia/CN/VN again.



Carlosa said:


> Go get a new brain because you are incapable of understanding simple facts that normal people can easily understand. You and Aviet are in a particular category of people that are a waste of time of talk to. You keep mixing different things and keep making absurd statements that 99% of normal people can never accept and you and him talk about how things are in other countries even that you never been there and the people that do live there tell you otherwise. Useless!!!
> 
> Same as when you pretended to say the other day that a SU-22 and Shadock missiles (a very large missile, very easy to shutdown) can penetrate chinese air defenses, destroy the chinese navy and save the islands. Only fools can think that way.
> 
> I'm done wasting my time with this. Finished.


Whatever, ppl know how stupid Western ppl and its capitalist system in 1933 great depression already.

200,000,000,000 mark for a load of bread ?? Im I talking abt Zimbabwe ?? No Im talking abt "Great " capitalist Germany when they did not have daddy US's help.

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## AViet

Viva_Viet said:


> True, NK corruption is as clean as VN before 1990 how come they rank at the bottom ??
> 
> As I can see, if US can not make Russia collapse again in 5 years, then US and its vassal state will get in deeper trouble in economic crisis, The whole capitalist system is dying bcs of over producing problem again just like 1933 great depression. They (capitalist nations ) will collapse if they can not exploit and destroy Russia/CN/VN again.
> 
> 
> Whatever, ppl know how stupid Western ppl and its capitalist system in 1933 great depression already.
> 
> 200,000,000,000 mark for a load of bread ?? Im I talking abt Zimbabwe ?? No Im talking abt "Great " capitalist Germany when they did not have daddy US's help.



True, with the money the US has spent to counter North Korea, they could have bought Germany Prime Minister, French president or British Queen, or possibly the whole government of those countries, to do anything to their favor. But they cannot do this to North Korea.

But with the brazen nature of Western media, ...

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## warzone

Viva_Viet said:


> U lose all points when keep lying that VN's corruption is worse than your dirty capitalist system. Can u bribe our officers to buy 1,000 guns, open a gun shop and sell gun in VN ?? No, u never can while u can do it in US.
> 
> SO, why dont u just shut up , wait and see which system will collapse first ?? EU without daddy US is just a big mess and die again in another hyper inflation. Dont try to pretend as a Spanish.
> 
> This one show how stupid German is when living without daddy US.



That's after World War 1, after Germany lost the war and the German economy was in ruined and society was in chaos...Can you remind how much 1 million Dong worth again in this peaceful time? You are a great economist...LOL

@Viva_Viet you are another tough guy talking tough with your keyboard... Calling people losers and telling people to shut up... Are you talking like that in real life, tough man?



AViet said:


> True, with the money the US has spent to counter North Korea, they could have bought Germany Prime Minister, French president or British Queen, or possibly the whole government of those countries, to do anything to their favor. But they cannot do this to North Korea.
> 
> But with the brazen nature of Western media, ...



LOL North Korea is the cleanest country… must be the funniest thing I read in this forum…The North Korean leadership, theirs relatives and the loyal élites share the wealth among themselves that’s why they still in power while people are starving and live in misery. Did Kim Jung Un just killed his uncle over sharing rackets? Everybody with money can bride North Korean border guards and cross into China like going to picnic, that just show you how corrupted NK is (remind me please how many North Korean live in China and how they get there) How you know the US and allies didn’t do any sabotage or covert ops in North Korea? Because you didn’t read it in the news? The allied probably have all the intels they need in case of war (underground tunnels at the border with South Korea, arty positions, command posts and units positions, ect…) Why sending people to NK to collect intels, the US and allies have hundred of satellites....LOL!!!



Viva_Viet said:


> In fact, US capitalist strangle any countries that dont allow her to exploit/take control like VN, Iran, Syria etc.
> 
> US knows that its weakness in the capitalist system is the economic crisis that will happen when the capitalist system produce too much products , much more than ppl's demand leading to the crash of banking system. Just like US's power start getting weaken after 2008 economic crisis leading to the raise of Russia's power . If Mr.Putin is smart enough, then Russia can beat US in Europe and take back East Germany as Soviet did in history.


 Haha I can see you have a PHD in economy.... It's a humor and comedy forum here? East Germany is part of Germany who is a major member of NATO, do you know article 5 of NATO? Tell Russia to take the Balkan states first, they are also members of NATO and you will see what is article 5...Go ask the Talibans



Carlosa said:


> Not at the level of Spain? That shows how much you know, another one living in its own fantasy world.
> 
> 
> 
> These type of people don't have enough brains to figure that out. You'll never get through them.





AViet said:


> If you were really from Spain (which I believe you are not), you should care about the deep corruption in your own country and do not point finger to Vietnam.
> 
> Vietnam corruption is severe, I know, but not at the level of Spain and a lot of "democratic" countries in the West, including South Europe, Latin America or South Asia. In the West, money can buy everything and rich people never go to jail, but not in Vietnam. In other words, the corruption in Vietnam and the West have different nature. In Vietnam, it is quite easy to be seen in the sense of "lubricant money", but you cannot change the system, policies or laws. In the rich Western countries, corruption is not that open, but with money, you can buy almost everything.



How the FORMOSA disaster is doing? VN Government trying to cover up was so ridiculous and funny (wonder how many officials get paid by Formosa) and police beating up and arresting protesters asking for transparency and honest answers… Especially that VN official saying on National TV the cause was because people was pissing too much on the beach (price tag, please!)…Haha!!!



TenLua said:


> I have wondered about this. And this is not an endorsement of communism nor am I trying to justify communism. But it had occurred to me that capitalist states have attacked, dismantled, and subvert every communist country to have ever exist. They all fail or will fail not because of their own doing, but they fail due to an outside force engineering their failure. Venezuela for a current one. Is it because they do not want to see a communist country succeed? Possibly. Why would they do this? The two are not mutually exclusive. They can co-exist so why must one strangle the other?
> 
> 
> "


Venezuela is not a communist state it’s a populism socialist regime (it was a democratic country with multiple political parties now it more a dictatorship). No need to sabotage that Venezuelan socialist revolution, it failed by itself because of poor economic decisions and mismanagement, incompetent leaders and corruption. Venezuela have only oil as the ONLY source of revenue (and never thought of diversifying it’s economy because back then the oil price was sky high). Now it blaming an economic war and every failures on USA . When a country with so much natural resources have food shortages, shortage of every basic goods, highest crime rate, highest inflation and it population is fleeing, it say a lot about how incompetent this government is. By the way, the Venezuelan president Maduro was a former bus driver (with zero diploma or economic experience)...lol

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## Viet

AViet said:


> True, with the money the US has spent to counter North Korea, they could have bought Germany Prime Minister, French president or British Queen, or possibly the whole government of those countries, to do anything to their favor. But they cannot do this to North Korea.
> 
> But with the brazen nature of Western media, ...


Nonsense bro, actually it costs the US nothing to bring the economy of countries as North Korea or Iran into the knee. The US just needs to declare those countries as enemy and forbids US companies and US banks to trade and pay in dollar.

During election campaign, Donald Trump bragged he can push China into bankruptcy within days. What do you think how he would do it?

China is a big number but it is easier for the US to push China back to the period of economic hardship and even poverty than one may think.

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## Viet

Ok return to military news 

Report indicates VN is close to manufacture S300 long range aircraft missile, Kh31a antiship missile and Kh31p anti radar missile.

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## Viva_Viet

warzone said:


> That's after World War 1, after Germany lost the war and the German economy was in ruined and society was in chaos...Can you remind how much 1 million Dong worth again in this peaceful time? You are a great economist...LOL
> 
> @Viva_Viet you are another tough guy talking tough with your keyboard... Calling people losers and telling people to shut up... Are you talking like that in real life, tough man?


Bro, you also can not buy 1,000 guns from our corrupted officers and sell them on the street while u can do that easily in US, right ?? So, u know which system is more corrupted.

Talking abt economic problem, then u need to learn much much more before u can discuss with me abt this field or u'd better just sit and wait what will happen. I stayed in this forum quite long and discussed many times wt many foreigner abt economic matters (inflation, CN yuan devaluation etc ) and all must admit till now that all what I predict is true.

Without daddy US's help, EU in general , Germany in particular is nothing better than our former South Vietnam that already dead after daddy US left them. German's stuffs is just too expensive, when US ppl cant afford to buy cos US also facing wt another great depression now, then Germany will be over producing again and face wt another hyper inflation. I will not surprise if our brother @Viet must buy a loaf of bread wt 200,000,000,000 Euro again


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Bro, you also can not buy 1,000 guns from our corrupted officers and sell them on the street while u can do that easily in US, right ?? So, u know which system is more corrupted.
> 
> Talking abt economic problem, then u need to learn much much more before u can discuss with me abt this field or u'd better just sit and wait what will happen. I stayed in this forum quite long and discussed many times wt many foreigner abt economic matters (inflation, CN yuan devaluation etc ) and all must admit till now that all what I predict is true.
> 
> Without daddy US's help, EU in general , Germany in particular is nothing better than our former South Vietnam that already dead after daddy US left them. German's stuffs is just too expensive, when US ppl cant afford to buy cos US also facing wt another great depression now, then Germany will be over producing again and face wt another hyper inflation. I will not surprise if our brother @Viet must buy a loaf of bread wt 200,000,000,000 Euro again


Utter nonsense

After the WW I defeat Germany had to pay 130 billion gold mark for war reparation demanded by the French government. The French wanted to suck blood out of Germany by pushing the germans into mass poverty and economic collapse. The Germans produced mass of paper money to pay back with consequences of hyperinflation. The mark became worthless. It was the French that pushed Germany into a corner with no way out, laying the root for WW II.

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## Carlosa

warzone said:


> How the FORMOSA disaster is doing? VN Government trying to cover up was so ridiculous and funny (wonder how many officials get paid by Formosa) and police beating up and arresting protesters asking for transparency and honest answers… Especially that VN official saying on National TV the cause was because people was pissing too much on the beach (price tag, please!)…Haha!!!



Man, that was epic, really!!! Within 24 hours max of the disaster I already knew what the problem was since fishermen reported a yellow underwater cloud coming out from the pipeline (illegal pipeline authorized by local officials by bribe money) and a few fisherman swimming near got sick from that, 1 died. So everything was very clear. After a couple of days, all those reports disappeared and the government started to cover up but it in the end had to give up, the problem was too much in the open and people were angry.



warzone said:


> It's a humor and comedy forum here? l



With these 2 its always humor and comedy, they are not good for anything else.



warzone said:


> Haha I can see you have a PHD in economy....



They have a phd in nonsense. These 2 have been like this for years, they are incapable of changing or reasoning.

Actually, I didn't even bother to read most of his reply, waste of time.



Viet said:


> Nonsense bro,



Exactly!!!!!



Viet said:


> Utter nonsense.



Absolutely.



Viet said:


> Ok return to military news
> 
> Report indicates VN is close to manufacture S300 long range aircraft missile, Kh31a antiship missile and Kh31p anti radar missile.
> 
> View attachment 433406
> View attachment 433407
> View attachment 433408
> View attachment 433409
> View attachment 433410



What do you mean by S300 long range aircraft missile? Those are very sophisticated missiles.

Are you saying license production of Kh31A/E?

Any sources, more info?

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Utter nonsense
> 
> After the WW I defeat Germany had to pay 130 billion gold mark for war reparation demanded by the French government. The French wanted to suck blood out of Germany by pushing the germans into mass poverty and economic collapse. The Germans produced mass of paper money to pay back with consequences of hyperinflation. The mark became worthless. It was the French that pushed Germany into a corner with no way out, laying the root for WW II.


Learn Economic history of Germany properly, bro. Germany before 1800 was heavily rural, with some urban trade centers..........Before 1850 Germany lagged behind the leaders in industrial development, Britain, France and Belgium

Abt history of capitalism in Europe, VN book wrote that: Bcs of its late industrialization, so German lack of market to sell their products. Over producing problem made German had no choice but waging wars against Britain, France and hope they could "rob" the market from Britain, France to sell their products and to exploit resources from colonies (*it means if German did not make war, then she would still face hyper inflation cos she could not find big enough market to sell her products*). WW 1 happened just bcs new capitalist country like German wanted to re share the colonies/ market in the world.

If u still can read VNese, then u can read this and translate into English (if possible) to let another know Why capitalist system wanna bring chaos to the world everytime they got economic crisis.
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiến_tranh_thế_giới_thứ_nhất#Nguy.C3.AAn_nh.C3.A2n.2C_b.E1.BA.A3n_ch.E1.BA.A5t_chi.E1.BA.BFn_tranh


> *Chủ nghĩa đế quốc và sự tranh giành thuộc địa[sửa | sửa mã nguồn]*
> Lenin và những người Bolshevik, cùng một phần lớn những người xã hội chủ nghĩa của châu Âu phân tích có cơ sở rằng chiến tranh là mâu thuẫn của sự phát triển của các nước chủ nghĩa đế quốc cầm đầu ở châu Âu và chiến tranh có tính chất chiến tranh đế quốc: đó là cuộc chiến nhằm tranh giành, phân chia lại thuộc địagiữa các nước đế quốc, là cuộc chiến tranh phi nghĩa đối với tất cả các phe tham chiến.
> 
> Nguyên nhân theo phân tích của Lenin: sự lớn mạnh của Đế quốc Đức sau Chiến tranh Pháp-Phổ đã đẩy mạnh những tham vọng chiếm lĩnh thuộc địa và chia lại thị trường thế giới của nước này, nhưng tham vọng này gặp phải sự phản kháng của các nước _"đế quốc già"_ là Anh Quốc, Pháp và Nga. Các "đế quốc già" này về cơ bản đã chiếm lĩnh những thuộc địa bao la khắp thế giới và muốn duy trì quyền thống trị của mình, không muốn "chia phần" cho những thế lực mới nổi như Đức. Đế quốc Áo–Hung và Đế quốc Ottoman từ lâu đã suy yếu không còn đủ "tư cách" và vai trò để có ảnh hưởng trong khu vực Trung Âu, Balkan và Kavkaz. Các cường quốc khác can thiệp vào khu vực đó để tranh giành ảnh hưởng với nhau... Sự mâu thuẫn mang tính chất đế quốc chủ nghĩa đòi hỏi một cuộc "chém giết lớn" để phân ngôi thứ và lập lại trật tự thế giới có lợi cho kẻ thắng trên cơ sở chiếm lấy thuộc địa của kẻ thua.



Before blaming France, u must learn what happended to German if she didnt start war. The result clearly is : *German economy still collapse, nothing change.*


----------



## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Learn Economic history of Germany properly, bro. Germany before 1800 was heavily rural, with some urban trade centers..........Before 1850 Germany lagged behind the leaders in industrial development, Britain, France and Belgium
> 
> Abt history of capitalism in Europe, VN book wrote that: Bcs of its late industrialization, so German lack of market to sell their products. Over producing problem made German had no choice but waging wars against Britain, France and hope they could "rob" the market from Britain, France to sell their products and to exploit resources from colonies (*it means if German did not make war, then she would still face hyper inflation cos she could not find big enough market to sell her products*). WW 1 happened just bcs new capitalist country like German wanted to re share the colonies/ market in the world.
> 
> If u still can read VNese, then u can read this and translate into English (if possible) to let another know Why capitalist system wanna bring chaos to the world everytime they got economic crisis.
> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiến_tranh_thế_giới_thứ_nhất#Nguy.C3.AAn_nh.C3.A2n.2C_b.E1.BA.A3n_ch.E1.BA.A5t_chi.E1.BA.BFn_tranh
> 
> 
> Before blaming France, u must learn what happended to German if she didnt start war. The result clearly is : *German economy still collapse, nothing change.*


One, Germany is a late starter in modernizing the economy but it surpassed all other within a short time.

Two, the Germans are rich. Really with people having big bucks. 10 Trillion USD. Ok the first half has all, while the other half nothing. Capitalism.

Third, if you think socialism is implemented in VN or CN or Venezuela then you haven’t known Germany yet. Here as a poor man you can get everything for free: from housing with central heating to healthcare to hospital visits to school to university. Yes the government is even generous by giving you extra cash every month.

In Vietnam you must pay for everything.

Wanting to enjoy socialism? Come to Germany!

Germany has the strongest economy in the Western Hemisphere. Waiting it to collapse can be frustrating. Very frustrating. The British, the French had hoped the Germans would never recover from the wars. All day dreamers.

We are again off topic.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Man, that was epic, really!!! Within 24 hours max of the disaster I already knew what the problem was since fishermen reported a yellow underwater cloud coming out from the pipeline (illegal pipeline authorized by local officials by bribe money) and a few fisherman swimming near got sick from that, 1 died. So everything was very clear. After a couple of days, all those reports disappeared and the government started to cover up but it in the end had to give up, the problem was too much in the open and people were angry.
> 
> 
> 
> With these 2 its always humor and comedy, they are not good for anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> They have a phd in nonsense. These 2 have been like this for years, they are incapable of changing or reasoning.
> 
> Actually, I didn't even bother to read most of his reply, waste of time.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean by S300 long range aircraft missile? Those are very sophisticated missiles.
> 
> Are you saying license production of Kh31A/E?
> 
> Any sources, more info?


bro VN military news is more guessing than fact stating. If I say VN is close to manufacture s300 and kh31 missile then it is my conclusion on reading Việt military news. No need to take every of my post as authentic.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> bro VN military news is more guessing than fact stating. If I say VN is close to manufacture s300 and kh31 missile then it is my conclusion on reading Việt military news. No need to take every of my post as authentic.



Guessing is definitely what it usually is. Well, I was surprised about S-300 missiles because Russia has not allowed anybody to produce them.

A few years ago there was talk about VN producing the Yakhont missile under license and that would make sense, but nothing has been heard since. The KH-31 is a bit of old tech at this point, but I guess more will be revealed later. Now the Kaliber would be a really nice one to produce.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Guessing is definitely what it usually is. Well, I was surprised about S-300 missiles because Russia has not allowed anybody to produce them.
> 
> A few years ago there was talk about VN producing the Yakhont missile under license and that would make sense, but nothing has been heard since. The KH-31 is a bit of old tech at this point, but I guess more will be revealed later. Now the Kaliber would be a really nice one to produce.


We as simple posters guess, a certain neighbor guesses too. Actually VN military doctrine has not changed much since centuries, that means, maintaining the balance of powers, avoiding unnecessary provocation, but in parallel keeping the army having an edge over the CN army.

Practising secrecy over everything but publishing some info to the public belong to the Paradoxon.

Our focus now is economy. We don’t want to slow down the progress. Military power comes with the time.

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## Viet

RoK police on a visit to VN








The military chiefs of Vietnam and United States in the Philippines. Has Jim Mattis offered anything that Vietnam is so happy?










New Kalashnikov made in Vietnam for the Marines










New 7,62x54mm bullets made by z113 factory with more powerful kinetic energy

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> One, Germany is a late starter in modernizing the economy but it surpassed all other within a short time.
> 
> Two, the Germans are rich. Really with people having big bucks. 10 Trillion USD. Ok the first half has all, while the other half nothing. Capitalism.
> 
> Third, if you think socialism is implemented in VN or CN or Venezuela then you haven’t known Germany yet. Here as a poor man you can get everything for free: from housing with central heating to healthcare to hospital visits to school to university. Yes the government is even generous by giving you extra cash every month.
> 
> In Vietnam you must pay for everything.
> 
> Wanting to enjoy socialism? Come to Germany!
> 
> Germany has the strongest economy in the Western Hemisphere. Waiting it to collapse can be frustrating. Very frustrating. The British, the French had hoped the Germans would never recover from the wars. All day dreamers.
> 
> We are again off topic.


10 Trillion USD Germany got come from US's mercy. Its just like South VN let US troops stationed in VN, then she also got Trillion USD. But everyone know what happened to her after US left.

US economy is going down due to over producing again , I think US now only strong enough to protect England, that why she (UK) insist on Brexit to get our of incoming mess in EU.

Just wait and see, EU will get in big mess again after Brexit (it also means that US will exit from EU,too). No daddy's protection, EU is just a group of chicken to Russian bear .


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> 10 Trillion USD Germany got come from US's mercy. Its just like South VN let US troops stationed in VN, then she also got Trillion USD. But everyone know what happened to her after US left.
> 
> US economy is going down due to over producing again , I think US now only strong enough to protect England, that why she (UK) insist on Brexit to get our of incoming mess in EU.
> 
> Just wait and see, EU will get in big mess again after Brexit (it also means that US will exit from EU,too). No daddy's protection, EU is just a group of chicken to Russian bear .


bro the mountain of money has been accumulated over the decades. VN needs to learn from Germany: a powerful military umbrella and a good environment for doing business. Prosperity will come as certainly as snow in the alpines in winter.

Actually the Germans will profit from Brexit. Jobs and money will leave the British island for Germany.

You will see the Germans will be the one that profits most from the brexit disaster, much similar to the case of Greek bankruptcy.

Ever asked why lots of Vietnamese try legal and illegal to immigrate en mass to Germany? Yes they do with a good reason.

I believe we are off topic.

Vietnam has placed an order for BRT-80 amphibious tanks, says Alexander Krasovitsky, the general director of the company, that manufactures the vehicle. No more details.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> bro the mountain of money has been accumulated over the decades. VN needs to learn from Germany: a powerful military umbrella and a good environment for doing business. Prosperity will come as certainly as snow in the alpines in winter.
> 
> Actually the Germans will profit from Brexit. Jobs and money will leave the British island for Germany.
> 
> You will see the Germans will be the one that profits most from the brexit disaster, much similar to the case of Greek bankruptcy.
> 
> Ever asked why lots of Vietnamese try legal and illegal to immigrate en mass to Germany? Yes they do with a good reason.
> 
> I believe we are off topic.
> 
> Vietnam has placed an order for BRT-80 amphibious tanks, says Alexander Krasovitsky, the general director of the company, that manufactures the vehicle. No more details.
> 
> View attachment 433744
> View attachment 433745
> View attachment 433746



Russian BTR series doesnt have ramp door, thats not good for quick depart for the landing infantry units. On other hand BT and BMP tracked vehicles offered rear door capability. Though i believe, amphibious capability of Vietnam Marine is still in growing phase.

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## Viet

madokafc said:


> Russian BTR series doesnt have ramp door, thats not good for quick depart for the landing infantry units. On other hand BT and BMP tracked vehicles offered rear door capability. Though i believe, amphibious capability of Vietnam Marine is still in growing phase.


Ok I posted the pictures of the article that reports the purchase. Pls don’t blame ha ha. As for the rest, if you study VN then you will know It isn’t a revolution but evolution process. Money plays the major role. Unless a war is imminent, VN military modernization develops step by step.

recent exercise of the Marines with the support of a naval task force


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Russian BTR series doesnt have ramp door, thats not good for quick depart for the landing infantry units. On other hand BT and BMP tracked vehicles offered rear door capability. Though i believe, amphibious capability of Vietnam Marine is still in growing phase.



This is what the article says, Google translated:

*General Director of the factory - production "Defense Industry Group", Alexander Krasovitsky has said that Vietnam has sent orders for multi-purpose terrain vehicle GAZ-59037.*
The information was provided by Alexander Krasovitsky in an interview with Sputnik yesterday, Thursday 26 October.

It is known that the ATV 59037 was a modified variant of the APC. The BTR-80 was serving in large numbers in the Russian Army as well as in many former Soviet republics.




Armored Multi-purpose GAZ-59037A

Is Vietnam ordering an amphibious vehicle designed on the basis of the BTR-80? Is there any prospect for this taxi fighter to be present at the S-shaped land strip in the not so distant future? Replacement of armored vehicles carrying the BTR-60PB army is becoming increasingly urgent, especially when both the Army and the Marines are invested to advance to modern.

In addition, Alexander Krasovitsky recommends that every year Russia exports several hundred BTR-82A (deep upgrade of the BTR-80), and this armored infantry carrier Considered as their business card in the international arms market.

However, it must be acknowledged that the BTR-82A still has some disadvantages that make it unlikely that Vietnam will be interested in it.




Armored vehicles BTR-82A

The "Taxi of the Field" BTR-82A was first introduced in 2009 and garnered positive reviews after its performance at the 15th Interpolitex Military Exhibition in Moscow in October 2011. .

The most notable change between the BTR-82A and the BTR-80 was the 14.5 mm KPVT heavy machine gun turret that had been replaced by an automatic turret, which mounted a 30 mm 2A72 gun It can deploy a variety of different types of ammunition to destroy all targets from the ground to the air, providing superior support firepower.

Unfortunately, the weapon is the only "revolution" on this APC, it still has the same major weaknesses as the thin armor, the old chassis for extremely limited mine defense. Doors for the soldiers are still located on the side, making them very vulnerable to enemy fire.




Russian armored troop carrier named Boomerang

Currently, Russia has launched more advanced APC series, Boomerang, which has completely overcome the old disadvantages on the BTR-82A, in addition to possessing superior strength by adding four more missiles. anti-tank AT-14 Kornet and modern optical shooting system, accompanied by comfortable comfort for combat teams.


Even if Vietnam can manage its financial resources and choose an APC that has proven its capabilities over a long period of time, many European-made field taxis, such as Patria AMV or Piranha-3C They are good candidates.

With the above situation, perhaps BTR-82A will not be able to soon follow GAZ-59037 on Vietnam.

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## Carlosa

*The Third Gepard Missile Frigates of the Vietnamese Navy has Arrived at Cam Ranh Port*

28 October 2017





Rolldock Star carrying third Gepard missile frigate (photo : naval)

According to an updated Maritimeraffic.com website, the Rolldock Star carrying the 3rd Gepard missile frigates was returned to the Cam Ranh port on 27 October.

The Rolldock Star has now entered the Cam Ranh port as scheduled in preparation for the delivery of the 3rd Gepard missile frigates to the Vietnamese People's Navy.

Thus, the 44-day journey begins on 13 September in Novorossiysk of the Rolldock Star with the task of carrying the 3rd Gepard missile frigates of the Vietnamese People's Navy has come to an end.

The ship will soon be removed from the Rolldock Star and ready to join the navy fleet of the Vietnamese People's Navy.

In November, it is expected that the remaining Gepard missile defense vessel in Russia's second pair will be returned to Vietnam.

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## Viet

CHINA-VIETNAM TIES OPINION
*China and Vietnam: from confrontation to accommodation*





By ALEXANDER CASELLA
OCTOBER 27, 2017 12:57 PM (UTC+8)


Chairman Mao Zedong once commented that China and Vietnam were as close as lips and teeth. While the description was consonant with the geographical proximity of the two countries, it did not dwell on the question: Who is the lips and who is the teeth?

We can presume, however, that there was no ambiguity in the chairman’s mind to the effect that while the lips cannot bite the teeth, the teeth can bite the lips. Likewise, the illustration of the proximity between the two countries carried an indirect warning: In a pinch, it is China’s teeth that will bite the lips rather than the opposite.

Of all the civilizations that developed over the centuries within China’s cultural orbit, none was as conditioned as Vietnam’s by its proximity to China. While Japan and Korea, like Vietnam, shared with China an adhesion to Mahayana Buddhism with a strong Confucian and Taoist input, used ideograms to write and ate with chopsticks, none shared an extensive and often undefined land border with the Middle Kingdom.

Viewed from a historical perspective, China’s “teeth” were not a theoretical proposition. This geographical proximity and a thousand years of Chinese rule from 111 BC to AD 938 left a mark on Vietnam, which permeated its institutions and society. Historians differ as to whether or not the end result was the emergence of another, smaller version of China.

But none will question the fact that Chinese influence notwithstanding, the Vietnamese developed and preserved a distinct personality and identity, albeit within China’s cultural sphere. Over the following centuries it became Vietnam’s policy to humor China, pander to it if necessary, avoid any overt provocation and basically keep it at arm’s length.

After the invasion of China by Japan, the creation of the Chinese republic and the colonization of Vietnam by France, political relations between China and the Vietnamese court in Hue slowly dissolved into non-existence.

It was only with the creation of the Chinese Communist Party in 1921 and of the Vietnamese Communist Party in 1930 that a semblance of relations emerged between the two countries. Operating under the umbrella of the Communist International and meeting either in Moscow or in the Communist-controlled areas of China, the leaderships of the two parties were in constant contact and, over the years, developed a strong common ideological basis. Thus with China in the throes of a civil war and Vietnam occupied by the French, the only two components of Chinese and Vietnamese society that were interacting were their respective Communist parties.

The relationship between the two parties took on a completely new dimension in 1950. In December 1946, the uncertain truce between the French forces in Vietnam and the communist Viet Minh broke down as the two opponents resorted to open warfare. In 1949, the Chinese Communists proclaimed the People’s Republic of China, and in the autumn of 1950 the Viet Minh defeated the French forces controlling the border areas between Vietnam and China.

The Viet Minh now had a secure rear base in China where it could train its troops in safety and through which it was to receive a massive amount of military aid. This enabled the Viet Minh to expand its areas of control within Vietnam, where by 1953 it had embarked on its first land-reform campaign.

Josef Stalin had encouraged the Vietnamese communists to pattern their land reform on the Chinese model. Ignoring the fact that land tenure in Vietnam differed from that in China, the Chinese cadres assigned to the Viet Minh to oversee the land reform ordered the arrest and sometimes executions of thousands of small farmers whose landholdings were insignificant.

Among those arrested was Nguyen Van Linh, who 33 years later was to become secretary general of the Communist Party of Vietnam and one of the moving forces in the Vietnamese reform movement. From jail Linh smuggled a report to Ho Chi Minh, who with the support of Vo Nguyen Giap, the army commander, called for an emergency plenary meeting of the Communist Party, which decided that China’s land-reform process was not to be a model for Vietnam.

It was to prove the first step in many for the Vietnamese Communist Party’s shift away from China’s ideological orbit.

The second step occurred in the spring of 1954 at the battle of Dien Bien Phu. Prior to that battle, the Chinese military mission attached to the Viet Minh had designed an attack plan based on China’s experience in Korea, which provided for a massed infantry attack supported by an artillery bombardment.

In January 1954, two days prior to the attack, General Giap scrapped the plan. Not only did he postpone the attack by two months, to a time when the monsoon would ground the French air force, but his plan also provided for artillery pieces firing individually in support of a network of trenches, which would smother the French position on the pattern of France’s own 18th-century siege tactics.

By 1954 the Vietnamese Communist Party, while outwardly maintaining cordial relations with its Chinese counterpart, had weaned itself from both the ideological and the military doctrines prevailing in Mao’s China.

The Chinese were incensed, but the strategy worked, and Dien Bien Phu became the first military campaign that saw the defeat of a Western army by a Third World insurgent force.

Thus by 1954 the Vietnamese Communist Party, while outwardly maintaining cordial relations with its Chinese counterpart, had weaned itself from both the ideological and the military doctrines prevailing in Mao’s China.

During the second Vietnam War, Sino-Vietnamese relations were in essence governed by geopolitical considerations. For Beijing the main concern, as in Korea, was to ensure that there be no hostile US presence on its border. Thus its support to Hanoi, both military and economic, sought to preserve the existence of North Vietnam as a buffer rather than to promote its conquest of the South.

The fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975, totally changed the context of the relationship. On May 1, Labor Day, South Vietnam’s new Communist rulers were thunderstruck when literally every building in Cholon, the Chinese suburb of Saigon, flew a Chinese flag. It was obviously not a spontaneous act but the result of a decision made in Beijing reaffirming China’s commitment to protecting its community in Vietnam.

For the Vietnamese Communists, it was an unacceptable proposition. They had embarked on a policy of “building socialism” in southern Vietnam, which provided for the nationalization of all significant economic enterprises. With the commercial establishment practically in the hands of the Chinese, “building socialism” put Vietnam on a collision course not only with its Chinese community but also with the Chinese state.

But the fate of the Chinese community was only one of the bones of contention between China and Vietnam. Over the years the Chinese had supported the emergence of a Cambodian communist movement that had seceded from the Vietnamese-inspired Indochinese communist movement. This group, the Khmer Rouge, was now ruling Cambodia and was violently anti-Vietnamese. Thus the regime in Hanoi suddenly found itself confronted by an aggressive Cambodia, a Chinese community it did not fully control, and a hostile China.

It was not a situation Hanoi could contend with alone, and by 1978 the regime, which over the years had navigated a careful course between Beijing and Moscow, had now thrown its lot in with the Soviet Union. By 1979 it had invaded Cambodia, fought a short border war with China and embarked on a policy of socio-ethnic cleansing by inducing hundreds of thousands of its people to flee by boat and seek refuge in neighboring countries of Southeast Asia and in China.

A debilitating occupation of Cambodia, a hostile China on its border, a high state of tension with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), and a collapsed domestic economy resulting from a blanket policy of collectivization was not a situation the regime in Hanoi felt particularly uncomfortable with. Over the decades, if not centuries, the Vietnamese had kept China at bay, defeated all their enemies, and manipulated all their friends. Confrontation was what they were used to. It was peace that they could not manage.

With China singled out as the enemy, and secure in the economic and military backing of the Soviet Union, Vietnam soldiered on. Then in December 1991 the Soviet Union imploded.

The collapse of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics had a traumatic effect on Hanoi. For decades Vietnam’s Communist leaders had seen themselves as the “vanguard of the world revolution in Southeast Asia”. Now there was no longer a world revolution. Not only were they ideological orphans but they had also embarked on a policy that, without outside help, was unsustainable.

During their wars against France and the US and their subsequent confrontation with China, Vietnam’s Communists had substantially relied on foreign aid, first from China and subsequently from the Soviet Union. The collapse of the USSR brought to an end Soviet aid. Now, for the first time, Vietnam had to become self–sufficient.

For the regime this was not a matter of choice but of survival. With economic development a priority, and collectivization a flagrant failure, the only option for the country was a step-by-step integration into the global market economy. This in turn could be achieved not only by a departure from the Marxist economic model but even more so by the promotion of a climate of stability. Thus for Vietnam’s Communists normalization with ASEAN and the US and de-escalating their confrontation with China became the priorities.

With no enemy of China to ally itself with, and having given up it hegemonic ambitions in Cambodia, Vietnam from Beijing’s perspective was thus downgraded to the rank of a smaller, albeit occasionally quarrelsome, neighbor to be watched but with which it could come to terms.

The net result was that the two countries embarked on a process of renewed dialogue at all levels. Party-to-party relations were resumed with the caveat that they were not based on a mutual ideological vision but rather on the principle that each Communist Party actually represented the state.

In parallel, a state-to-state dialogue led in December 2008 to the signing of a land-border demarcation agreement as well as an understanding regarding their maritime border at the mouth of the Gulf of Tonkin. Thus the only current outstanding dispute between China and Vietnam concerns their overlapping maritime claims in the South China Sea.

According to reliable sources it is this claim that precludes China from selling military equipment to Vietnam. However, the fact that Beijing in November last year signed a significant defense deal with Malaysia, which also has maritime claims in the South China Sea, is indicative of the complexity of the issue – a complexity that is reflected both in China increasingly affirming itself in the area and Washington’s policy of trying to contain Beijing.

Currently China is Vietnam’s No 2 trading partner after the United States and is the source of 29% of Vietnam’s imports and the destination of 10% of its exports. Meanwhile, the US is the destination of 21% of Vietnam’s exports and the source of 4.4% of its imports. In other words, Hanoi has succeeded in balancing its economic relations with both powers.

Politically, however, the Vietnamese have to contend with Washington’s efforts in trying to entice them to become a more active component of its policy of containing China. Thus the US has lifted restrictions on the sale of weapons to Vietnam. In August it transferred six coastal patrol boats to Vietnam, and a visit by a US aircraft carrier is scheduled for next year. That the ultimate aim of the US is to obtain some form of mooring rights, if not more, in Cam Ranh Bay is a given.

The challenge for Vietnam’s current leadership is to expand the country’s position in the global market economy without alienating its two main trading partners, which happen to be a current superpower and an aspiring one.

Within this perspective, China does not have any particular designs on Vietnam. Alternatively, however, were Vietnam to adopt a policy that would lead to a substantive strengthening of the US strategic position in the region, this might change. There is therefore a red line in its relations with the US that Vietnam cannot cross without provoking a reaction from China. The problem is that this red line is undefined is thus creating an area of uncertainty.


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## AViet

Quite superficial view from an Westerner as usual, who does not have in-depth knowledge about things but prefer to say as if he know everything.

In addition, China is No.1 trade partner of Vietnam for long time, while the US never is. The author must know it, but shameless lies seems now common trait in both Indian and Westerners

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## Viet

Vietnamese who were fathered by Japanese soldiers who remained in what is now Vietnam after World War II arrive at Tokyo's Haneda airport on Oct. 18. | KYODO

*NATIONAL / HISTORY*
*Vietnamese offspring of Japanese WWII soldiers visit the land of their fathers*
KYODO, JIJI

Thirteen Vietnamese fathered by Japanese soldiers who remained in what is now Vietnam after World War II visited Japan last week to meet one of the soldiers and visit the grave of another.

The Vietnamese, now in their 60s and 70s, are among the offspring of hundreds of Japanese soldiers who remained in French Indochina after the war, but later returned without their families.

Japan invaded French Indochina, part of which is now Vietnam, in 1940 during World War II. Of the Japanese troops deployed there, an estimated 600 remained after Japan’s surrender in August 1945 and joined the independence movement to fight against France’s attempt to re-establish its colonial rule in the First Indochina War between 1946 and 1954.

Many of them returned to Japan after the end of that conflict and their families faced discrimination and other hardships.

Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko met with a widow and descendants of Japanese war veterans in Hanoi earlier this year as part of their efforts to soothe some of the wounds left over from the war.

The visiting Vietnamese expressed their delight at a news conference in Tokyo last week after setting foot in Japan.

They said their long-awaited dream of visiting Japan had come true.

For Phan Hong Chau, 67, this was his first visit to Japan. He said he felt he had “returned home” when he arrived at an airport in Japan. He added that he was very happy that his long-held dream had come true.

Hong Nhat Quang, 67, head of the group, said he would like to continue exchanges with Japanese relatives.

After the news conference, the group toured the Imperial Palace and the Imperial Household Agency in Tokyo.

Also while in Tokyo, they visited the grave of a soldier who fathered one of the Vietnamese. And on Monday, they met a former soldier in Osaka Prefecture who is the father of another one.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> This is what the article says, Google translated:
> 
> *General Director of the factory - production "Defense Industry Group", Alexander Krasovitsky has said that Vietnam has sent orders for multi-purpose terrain vehicle GAZ-59037.*
> The information was provided by Alexander Krasovitsky in an interview with Sputnik yesterday, Thursday 26 October.
> 
> It is known that the ATV 59037 was a modified variant of the APC. The BTR-80 was serving in large numbers in the Russian Army as well as in many former Soviet republics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armored Multi-purpose GAZ-59037A
> 
> Is Vietnam ordering an amphibious vehicle designed on the basis of the BTR-80? Is there any prospect for this taxi fighter to be present at the S-shaped land strip in the not so distant future? Replacement of armored vehicles carrying the BTR-60PB army is becoming increasingly urgent, especially when both the Army and the Marines are invested to advance to modern.
> 
> In addition, Alexander Krasovitsky recommends that every year Russia exports several hundred BTR-82A (deep upgrade of the BTR-80), and this armored infantry carrier Considered as their business card in the international arms market.
> 
> However, it must be acknowledged that the BTR-82A still has some disadvantages that make it unlikely that Vietnam will be interested in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Armored vehicles BTR-82A
> 
> The "Taxi of the Field" BTR-82A was first introduced in 2009 and garnered positive reviews after its performance at the 15th Interpolitex Military Exhibition in Moscow in October 2011. .
> 
> The most notable change between the BTR-82A and the BTR-80 was the 14.5 mm KPVT heavy machine gun turret that had been replaced by an automatic turret, which mounted a 30 mm 2A72 gun It can deploy a variety of different types of ammunition to destroy all targets from the ground to the air, providing superior support firepower.
> 
> Unfortunately, the weapon is the only "revolution" on this APC, it still has the same major weaknesses as the thin armor, the old chassis for extremely limited mine defense. Doors for the soldiers are still located on the side, making them very vulnerable to enemy fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian armored troop carrier named Boomerang
> 
> Currently, Russia has launched more advanced APC series, Boomerang, which has completely overcome the old disadvantages on the BTR-82A, in addition to possessing superior strength by adding four more missiles. anti-tank AT-14 Kornet and modern optical shooting system, accompanied by comfortable comfort for combat teams.
> 
> 
> Even if Vietnam can manage its financial resources and choose an APC that has proven its capabilities over a long period of time, many European-made field taxis, such as Patria AMV or Piranha-3C They are good candidates.
> 
> With the above situation, perhaps BTR-82A will not be able to soon follow GAZ-59037 on Vietnam.



Hmm Vietnam army GAZ vehicle is for SAR purpose

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Hmm Vietnam army GAZ vehicle is for SAR purpose
> 
> View attachment 433915



Yes, That'a all there is to it.


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## Viet

a girl from the infantry


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## Viet

New ground radar






The stage is set for Japan led Tpp-11 at the upcoming APEC summit in Da Nang next month. Without the United States.






According to latest stat, 160,000 Vietnamese ethnic are living and working in South Korea. Let’s hope no war breaks out, no Vietnamese needs to flee.


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## Viet

Việt Nam will send the first female security officer to join peacekeeping activities in South Sudan, Ambassador Nguyễn Phương Nga, Head of Việt Nam’s Permanent Mission to the UN, said yesterday.– Photo tienphong.vn






Vietnamese who were fathered by Japanese soldiers who remained in what is now Vietnam after World War II arrive at Tokyo's Haneda airport on Oct. 18. | KYODO


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## Viet

A glimpse on what is coming. 2 Boeing C-17 transport aircraft from US airforce just arrived Hanoi. Donald Trump pays a state visit to Vietnam.








Probably at least a police division will be deployed. Schools and universities are closed. Everything in the city of Da Nang will come to a standstill during the Summit.

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## Carlosa

*CONTROP to Provide Maritime EO/IR Payloads to the Vietnamese Navy*

03 November 2017





The iSea-40HD systems will be used for safety and surveillance missions (photo : Controp)

CONTROP Precision Technologies Ltd. announced it had received a contract to provide a "significant number" of maritime EO/IR payloads to the Vietnamese Navy. This is a follow-on order of a previous order made three years ago. CONTROP’s iSea-40HD will be used for safety and surveillance. Delivery of the systems will commence in 2018.

Weighing 29Kg, the iSea-40HD Maritime EO/IR Payload has a thermal camera with continuous optical zoom, a full HD day camera, four gimbals for high stabilization, and an optional laser pointer and laser range-finder.

The iSea Family of maritime EO/IR payloads consists of a variety of payloads in different sizes for different maritime missions and applications – from the iSea-20HD 240mm, 10.7kg system to the iSea-50HD 354mm, 29kg system. These camera payloads are used worldwide for Coast Guard and Naval surveillance/observation applications, and provide an outstanding man-machine interface (MMI) and flexibility. All of the CONTROP iSea day/night camera payloads have an interface to NMEA0183 radars for slewing the EO/IR camera to the detected target. The iSea systems include CONTROP's proprietary Payload Electronics Box, which provides a Video Tracker as well as Video Enhancement algorithms and a Picture-in-Picture feature.

Hagay Azani, VP Marketing & Sales of CONTROP, commented: "We are pleased that the Vietnamese Navy once again selected us to supply the marine payloads as a follow-on order – a testament to their high level of satisfaction. We thank them for the close cooperation over the years, and believe that this cooperation will expand to include additional projects in the future."

(Israel Defence)

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> *CONTROP to Provide Maritime EO/IR Payloads to the Vietnamese Navy*
> 
> 03 November 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The iSea-40HD systems will be used for safety and surveillance missions (photo : Controp)
> 
> CONTROP Precision Technologies Ltd. announced it had received a contract to provide a "significant number" of maritime EO/IR payloads to the Vietnamese Navy. This is a follow-on order of a previous order made three years ago. CONTROP’s iSea-40HD will be used for safety and surveillance. Delivery of the systems will commence in 2018.
> 
> Weighing 29Kg, the iSea-40HD Maritime EO/IR Payload has a thermal camera with continuous optical zoom, a full HD day camera, four gimbals for high stabilization, and an optional laser pointer and laser range-finder.
> 
> The iSea Family of maritime EO/IR payloads consists of a variety of payloads in different sizes for different maritime missions and applications – from the iSea-20HD 240mm, 10.7kg system to the iSea-50HD 354mm, 29kg system. These camera payloads are used worldwide for Coast Guard and Naval surveillance/observation applications, and provide an outstanding man-machine interface (MMI) and flexibility. All of the CONTROP iSea day/night camera payloads have an interface to NMEA0183 radars for slewing the EO/IR camera to the detected target. The iSea systems include CONTROP's proprietary Payload Electronics Box, which provides a Video Tracker as well as Video Enhancement algorithms and a Picture-in-Picture feature.
> 
> Hagay Azani, VP Marketing & Sales of CONTROP, commented: "We are pleased that the Vietnamese Navy once again selected us to supply the marine payloads as a follow-on order – a testament to their high level of satisfaction. We thank them for the close cooperation over the years, and believe that this cooperation will expand to include additional projects in the future."
> 
> (Israel Defence)


I bet we will copy the technology and turn in made in Vietnam product. The sensor can be integrated in a firing computer for instance.






The army begins mass deployment of domestic made camouflage net for especially exposed military installations such as radar masts. The net is said capable absorbing enemy radar waves.






New sea mine UĐM. Some 10,000 of this nice mine if deployed would bring the entire South China Sea to a standstill.

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## Viet

Since 1965 in service as part of VN multilayer air defense: S75 anti aircraft missile now with improved guidance system


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> I bet we will copy the technology and turn in made in Vietnam product. The sensor can be integrated in a firing computer for instance.
> 
> View attachment 434763
> 
> 
> The army begins mass deployment of domestic made camouflage net for especially exposed military installations such as radar masts. The net is said capable absorbing enemy radar waves.
> 
> View attachment 434771
> 
> 
> New sea mine UĐM. Some 10,000 of this nice mine if deployed would bring the entire South China Sea to a standstill.
> 
> View attachment 434774




On a wooden boat? Lolol very cost efficient.


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## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> On a wooden boat? Lolol very cost efficient.


SO sea mines can be deployed from fishing boats, 1,000 fishing boats can deploy 10,000 sea mines


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## TenLua

Viva_Viet said:


> SO sea mines can be deployed from fishing boats, 1,000 fishing boats can deploy 10,000 sea mines



Thats one way to win a war; make the other guy go broke first.


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## Viet

The aircraft of the president of Russia, comrade Vladimir Putin, transporting equipment has just arrived Da Nang.


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## Viet

Welcome

Just freshly approved by the US Senat, the new US ambassador to Vietnam: Daniel Kritenbrink, arrives Hanoi, just few days before the arrival of the US president aircraft, the Airforce One.


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## barjo

TenLua said:


> Thats one way to win a war; make the other guy go broke first.


smart move deploy mines on shipping routes, and can be drift to any nearby waters... very smart, you aint kill your enemy but everyone. Great smart move


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## Viva_Viet

barjo said:


> smart move deploy mines on shipping routes, and can be drift to any nearby waters... very smart, you aint kill your enemy but everyone. Great smart move


We also will die if losing control of SCS (east sea).


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## TenLua

barjo said:


> smart move deploy mines on shipping routes, and can be drift to any nearby waters... very smart, you aint kill your enemy but everyone. Great smart move



You are singaporean and indonesian lmao!!!!!

Did you get lost? The pokemon go forum is that way —->


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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> New domestic made aerial surveillance system VQ1-M enters service for the Army group South.
> 
> View attachment 432060


it look like S75's rader. how many S75 operated by Vietnam. ? 
here is Myanmar's S75's rader. it look the same. Vietnam also making them. ?


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## Viet

barjo said:


> smart move deploy mines on shipping routes, and can be drift to any nearby waters... very smart, you aint kill your enemy but everyone. Great smart move


no worry bro, our sea mines can be configured to explode by certain depth and by noice signatures of enemy warships or submarines. as we consider indonesia as friend, so we will exclude yours from the kill list

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## Farhan Bohra

AViet said:


> Quite superficial view from an Westerner as usual, who does not have in-depth knowledge about things but prefer to say as if he know everything.
> 
> In addition, China is No.1 trade partner of Vietnam for long time, while the US never is. The author must know it, but shameless lies seems now common trait in both Indian and Westerners


What is actually your problem?

Seems like too much communism making you crazy.


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## barjo

Viet said:


> no worry bro, our sea mines can be configured to explode by certain depth and by noice signatures of enemy warships or submarines. as we consider indonesia as friend, so we will exclude yours from the kill list
> 
> View attachment 435380


 much relieved bro...

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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> it look like S75's rader. how many S75 operated by Vietnam. ?
> here is Myanmar's S75's rader. it look the same. Vietnam also making them. ?
> View attachment 435289


VN calls the modernized version as SNR75-M3. If modified, the missile can even attack land targets. VN army is said having 1,000 missiles.









The war in Yemen proves it: we can bombard enemy land targets by s75 land attack missiles.

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> VN calls the modernized version as SNR75-M3. If modified, the missile can even attack land targets. VN army is said having 1,000 missiles.


no wonder Vietnam have best AD in ASEAN region. so u guys upgraded them locally.? Vietnam do know how to upgrade and maintain their fleet and decent technology to make new one. hope our army can do like that with colab with Vietnam.



Viet said:


> The war in Yemen proves it: we can bombard enemy land targets by s75 land attack missiles.


this one can make land attack.!! that's new to me. it's need to modified to do land attack.? how about it range. ?

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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> no wonder Vietnam have best AD in ASEAN region. so u guys upgraded them locally.? Vietnam do know how to upgrade and maintain their fleet and decent technology to make new one. hope our army can do like that with colab with Vietnam.
> 
> 
> this one can make land attack.!! that's new to me. it's need to modified to do land attack.? how about it range. ?


The Saudi call it „Qaher-M2“ carrying a warhead of 350kg, range 400km. With a CEP of just 5m. So surprisingly very precise. It is not a secret the Russians support the modernization of the missile in case of Vietnam and Saudi Arabia.

We can assume, VN buys the technology, expertise and make the upgrade locally.

How about Myanmar? You have many of them in store?

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> The Saudi call it „Qaher-M2“ carrying a warhead of 350kg, range 400km. With a CEP of just 5m. So surprisingly very precise. It is not a secret the Russians support the modernization of the missile in case of Vietnam and Saudi Arabia.
> 
> We can assume, VN buys the technology, expertise and make the upgrade locally.
> 
> How about Myanmar? You have many of them in store?


we dont have much. some reports said we got from 280 to 500 during 2006-2010 along with MiG-29.we also should find the way to trun into Surface to Surface missiles like Saudi as we have another types of MR SAM and some of S75 have about to expire soon. BTW VN also have Hwasong 6 SRBM is it ? VN would be strongest BM force in ASEAN region.

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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> we dont have much. some reports said we got from 280 to 500 during 2006-2010 along with MiG-29.we also should find the way to trun into Surface to Surface missiles like Saudi as we have another types of MR SAM and some of S75 have about to expire soon. BTW VN also have Hwasong 6 SRBM is it ? VN would be strongest BM force in ASEAN region.


VN has missile program including ballistic missile program. But being the most powerful army in SE Asia means little if considering the number of men and tons of money the PLA has for its military buildup. I am not sure if our existing military strategy works in the long run, a combination of soft and hard factors. Or one day we are forced to go nuclear to ensure our country’s survival. Once the Chinese control the SC sea, they will strangulate Vietnam step by step. There isn’t little doubt about that.

They have showed little mercy for Vietnam in the last 1,000 years. Why should they change their mind now and in the future?

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## Viet

Military Capabilities
*Russia begins delivering T-90S/SK tanks to Vietnam, says report*
*Gabriel Dominguez* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly 
07 November 2017






A Russian T-90S MBT fitted with the Shtora defensive aids suite. Source: UralVagonZavod


Russia has begun delivering T-90S and T-90SK main battle tanks (MBTs) to Vietnam, according to a report by Russian state-owned news agency Interfax.

“As a result of a series of negotiations between Russian and Vietnamese experts, a contract was signed for the delivery of T-90S and T-90SK tanks, and the parties have now started implementing it,” Interfax quoted Mikhail Petukhov, a deputy director of Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), as saying on 7 November.

The announcement comes after Vietnamese and Russian media outlets reported earlier this year that Hanoi had ordered 64 T-90S/SK MBTs from Russia. The reports said at the time that the acquisition would be funded by credit provided by Moscow.

In July Russian tank manufacturer UralVagonZavod announced in its annual report that it had secured an order from Vietnam for the tanks. The T-90S is the basic export model, while the ‘K’ postfix is a reference to command versions.

The value of the T-90 deal has not been disclosed but is thought to be about USD250 million. The investment represents the first major order of new MBTs that the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) has secured for many years. Investment over the past decade and more has been firmly focused on modernising the Vietnamese navy and air force.

Petukhov also confirmed that Moscow is in discussions with Hanoi over the potential supply of Russian-made anti-aircraft missile systems. “The Vietnamese side is engaged in a dialogue on the supply, repair, and modernisation of anti-aircraft missile systems,” he was quoted by Interfax as saying.

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## Viet

the article also says Russia negotiates with Vietnam for delivery of anti-aircraft missile systems. most probably s400 and pantsyr S1. Vietnam could deliver the trucks, while Russia transfers the missile systems.

@Barmaley

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## Carlosa

Aung Zaya said:


> no wonder Vietnam have best AD in ASEAN region. so u guys upgraded them locally.? Vietnam do know how to upgrade and maintain their fleet and decent technology to make new one. hope our army can do like that with colab with Vietnam.
> 
> 
> this one can make land attack.!! that's new to me. it's need to modified to do land attack.? how about it range. ?



To be clear, the Qaher-M2 missile which Yemen uses against Saudi Arabia (200 km range) is a NEWLY MANUFACTURED missile whose design is a derivative of the S-75. The chinese are the first ones that started modifying the S-75 design as a ground to ground missile.

An American military expert said that the Yemeni army and Houthis have also changed the electrical fuse of S-75 SAM missiles and turned them to SSM (surface to surface) capable of targeting ground bases with high accuracy nearly 5-10 meters.

The Vietnamese upgrade is the S-125-2TM ' Pechora-2TM "Tetraedr", the upgrade is from Belarus and Vietnam is doing the upgrade under license. I have not seen any information that such upgrade provides ground to ground capability, but it could be possible. Some info about the upgrade:

Tetraedr "is developing the complex medium-range anti-aircraft missile S-125-2TM. Tetraedr was established on 26 April 2001 in the capital Minsk of Belarus Republic, there are over 300 officials and employees have academic study and practical experience in the fields of design, test and operate the weapons equipped with advanced air defense techniques. While the newly established more than 10 years but Tetraedr has prestige in the field of research, innovation, upgrade the air defense missile maneuvers, including S-125-2TM.

Air Defense missile system S-125 Pechora-2TM-2TM "Tetraedr" was embarking on research and development in December 2006 with the original name is KO-125-2TM (КО stands for the phrase Комплекс Оборудования/equipment combination), on the basis of upgrading technical tactics and maneuverability of the anti-aircraft missile system S-125 "Pechora" and S-125 m "Pechora-M". In 2008, the standard upgrade package configuration S-125-2TM ' Pechora-2TM "Tetraedr was completed and introduced to clients using the S-125 and S-125 m. In the designation S-125 Pechora-2TM "-2TM", the letter T is an acronym from "Тетраэдр/Tetraedr" and the letter M stands for the word "Мобильный means maneuver" in Russian.

According to the content upgrade package S-125, S-125 m in accordance with S-125-2TM ' Pechora-2TM "Tetraedr offers customers a number of airport equipment and spare parts for the consortium to upgrade, and elections expert installation, testing, operation and transfer of technology upgrades in complex technical installations in the country.

In December 2008, Tetraedr has found its first customer is the Republic of Azerbaijan with a contract upgraded 27 missile S-125 m "Neva-M" in accordance with S-125 Pechora-2TM "-2TM" over 2 phases: phase 1 Tetraedr by experts directly upgrade 5 S-125 m ended in April 2009, the second phase by the technical staff of Azerbaijan participated in upgrading under the direction and monitoring, and technology transfer expert step-by-step Tetraedr for the remaining combinations. In 2 days 14 and 15/12/2009, the crew monitoring of the air defense team of Azerbaijan has conducted firing trials "equipment, S-125-2TM ' Pechora-2TM" with the success of high-speed ballistic target drone IVS-M1/ИВЦ-М1 only by 1. Currently, Tetraedr together with forces of Azerbaijan has completed phase 2 upgrade for the Neva-M combination.

Vietnam is the second customer signed with Tetraedr upgrade package transfer contracts over 30 missile S-125 m "Pechora-M" onto the rear S-125 Pechora-2TM-2TM. Arrival S-125 Pechora-2TM-2TM will be equipped for at least 10 air defense missile Regiment (we have 8 regiments of the Pechora-2 m is in use, including 213, 257, 250, 274, 276, 282, 284, 285). Beginning in October 2010, the vehicle equipment and component parts to upgrade the S-125 m "Pechora-M" phase 1 of this contract has been moved to transport airport.

After a while the upgraded equipment, Pechora-2TM A31 at air defense Engineering Bureau-the air force, the battalion 152 250 missile regiment was the first unit of the Corps to receive the new equipment to be upgraded. From October 26 to 28/3/2011, battalions of 152 along Tetraedr experts, the plant engineering department and A31-service PK-KQ conducted firing trials equipment at TB1. In this shot, defusing the firing of 152 battalion used the equipment, S-125-2TM, shot a total of 6 rounds (1 ammo consumption on 26 March 2011 and 5 cartridges consumed on 28/3/2011) kill all six targets, achieving 100% removal results.

The second missile units receiving S-125-2TM is battalion 122 284 missile Regiment. In rehearsal firing by armed PK-KQ held from 1 to 5/12/2011 at TB1, 122 battalion along the Tetraedr technical specialists have conducted a successful test firing the equipment, S-125-2TM in conjunction with the shooting represented the equipment, S-125-2TM 152 battalion.

Improve power "Pechora-2 m" Pan crossbow in the process of modernization, in the complex, the basic elements are replaced completely, mounted photovoltaic system On "recent" – night and defensive combinations radio technology to deal with the anti-missile radar. As the two rocket launcher mounted on the truck by the Minsk tractor factory production vehicle.

The modernization in order to reach the main goal: to restore the life expectancy of the system by replacing the old equipment and move into the more modern equipment to enhance the system's ability to fight through the expanding scope of action with regard to the means of attacking the road not in a State of simple and complex noise-enhanced convenience the external shape, and duration of technical maintenance of the complex.

The modernization: modernization projects:-strengthening resistance to interference of the system from the passive and active interference bands-application of photovoltaic system in order to detect TV and automatic target tracking in passive mode in day and night from the air by laser remote-area operations by adopting the with modern digital in determining coordinates and map coordinates (UKV), enhanced accuracy when tracking the targets-enhanced ability to detect small size and low-range-apply new workplace for monitoring and controlling, is made on the basis of modern equipment with data on the information from the channel and, photoelectric information about migration parameters and the type of target, the efficient functioning of the missile to the target, the launcher and the other necessary information-installation equipment simulation training aimed at modernization of monitoring procedure – ensure the control implicitly with the provided information on the breakdown problem of combinations, including those elements which can replace each other (pin, module) – replacement of major equipment on the basis of the elements and new technology. Replacement covers: cab-100%; antenna-80%; Launcher-80%-reduced number of spare parts from 8 to 10 times Two modernized versions Two modernized versions 1. Mounted in the tube-with the means of transport for the Launcher, antenna and power supply equipment.

2. Form (not mounted in the tube)-with the Launcher, radar stations and cabin controls on automobile chassis and power supply automatically when the control cabin modernization, the old equipment being withdrawn completely. The modern equipment are welcome; the expression and information processing, control equipment, and modify the document on the basis of being used on the basis of modern computational techniques.

The new equipment includes: automated workplace of the commanding officer, controlling, monitoring, and control computers, communications devices, devices of recording parameters, equipment and other equipment. The equipment is mounted in the new tube or on the truck. The Cabin can be fitted for missile-raising when mounting on the truck and unplug when deployed on the battlefield.

When the modernization of the radar station, the old equipment was recovered, the receiving equipment for radio new photovoltaic 3025. The new equipment, which is designed on the basis of modern computing techniques and solid technology: capture device (high frequency components and the main pressure increases), the system of resistance to interference, the system of selectively moving target (SDTs), programmable device command guidance and coordinate systems, synchronous generator, computer controlled and checked, power supply and other equipment. The new guidance sensors are installed, see the more modern photovoltaic radio, a laser rangefinder and the new elements that control the operation of antennas and other devices to exchange information with the cabin.

UVH antenna-2 is mounted on the motor vehicle and be secured by the device of automatic electric and transverse adjustment system automatically. Hydraulic driving device make the lifting and lowering of the antenna system. The anti-jamming antenna and satellite navigation system was installed on the antenna system.

When modernizing launcher was fitted with a device with high reliability of control system, control the stem, which controls the transmission, exchange of information with the cabin UHK-2.

Launcher is mounted on the motor vehicle and be secured by the device of automatic telephone, satellite navigation equipment and automatic horizontal alignment system. The loaders for the Launcher is made possible by the use of new ammunition or vehicles was modernized PR-14-2 m.

Two versions of modernization The modernization of air defense missile to 5V27D include the modernization of the engine in the first period, a radio proximity fuze and warhead, the protein to expand operations, the effect on maximum range-32 km, raise the probability of target on fire. The elevation of a radio proximity fuze in normal mode for low-flying targets lowered from 60 count 20 m. The ability to shoot down aerial targets strengthened by increasing the volume of explosives up 1.6 times and the number of fragments up to 3.7 times.


G.H.K (Translated by Bing)

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## Viet

*



*

*Russia offers 5 mln USD aid to Vietnam in flood recovery*
Update: 11:10 | 08/11/2017

Russian President Vladimir Putin on November 7 directed providing 5 million USD in aid for Vietnam to overcome consequences of typhoon Damrey.

Speaking to the media, Russian President’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov expressed his hope that the humanitarian initiative will be welcomed by many countries.






Flood in the central province of Thua Thien-Hue. (Photo VNA)

Russia calls on the global community, including those attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders’ Meeting, to show solidarity with Vietnamese people, he said.

Peskov added that Putin discussed with Prime Minister Dmitri Medvedev, Minister of Civil Defence, Emergencies and Disaster Relief Vladimir Puchkov, and Minister of Finance Anton Siluanov about damage caused by the storm in Vietnam.

Causing the most serious damages over the past two decades, typhoon Damrey made landfall in central Vietnam at a time when the APEC Economic Leaders’ Week is ongoing in the central city of Da Nang from November 6-11.

The typhoon has so far left 69 dead, 30 injured, tens of thousands of people evacuated and collapsed over 120,700 houses.

It also damaged transport infrastructure and left many areas in power outage.


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## Viet

M548 Cargo tanks in manouver 









Nice polished missile for unwanted clowns

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Or one day we are forced to go nuclear to ensure our country’s survival. Once the Chinese control the SC sea, they will strangulate Vietnam step by step. There isn’t little doubt about that.



Hope by then an Asian version of NATO (with its anti-chicom nuclear umbrella) is formed. It will take a long time from now and all parties must continue to grow their economies much bigger for time being. What you can spare with that firm later objective in mind, you can put into maximum conventional deterrence for time being. It also gives enough time for China to change its attitude even if that is unlikely....which is worth hedging with though.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Hope by then an Asian version of NATO (with its anti-chicom nuclear umbrella) is formed. It will take a long time from now and all parties must continue to grow their economies much bigger for time being. What you can spare with that firm later objective in mind, you can put into maximum conventional deterrence for time being. It also gives enough time for China to change its attitude even if that is unlikely....which is worth hedging with though.


Surely it is better if we stand on our feet not depending on anyone, but realistically speaking we can’t. But why should we not seek alliance and military partners to defend our country? Why should we make our enemy too easy to rape our country?
The French, the Americans, the Chinese, or in the past the Mongols, the Manchu, they are all military great powers but all had foreign troops foreign money when attacking Vietnam. But we should fight alone?

I don’t bother to mention the Khmer or the Siamese. They are smaller but always seek their chance to attack Vietnam.

No we shouldn’t be stupid.

If history is a guide, we will be attacked if our enemies feel our weakness. We lost 100 years of economic development by wars, we shouldn’t repeat the mistake.

India and Vietnam can join hands to maintain peace in the region.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Surely it is better if we stand on our feet not depending on anyone, but realistically speaking we can’t. But why should we not seek alliance and military partners to defend our country? Why should we make our enemy too easy to rape our country?
> The French, the Americans, the Chinese, or in the past the Mongols, the Manchu, they are all military great powers but all had foreign troops foreign money when attacking Vietnam. But we should fight alone?
> 
> I don’t bother to mention the Khmer or the Siamese. They are smaller but always seek their chance to attack Vietnam.
> 
> No we shouldn’t be stupid.
> 
> If history is a guide, we will be attacked if our enemies feel our weakness. We lost 100 years of economic development by wars, we shouldn’t repeat the mistake.
> 
> India and Vietnam can join hands to maintain peace in the region.



Yes I mean you must be guaranteed strong alone to provide a strong military alliance long term with countries sharing same goals. No one should be made dependent on anyone else when it comes to sovereignty guarantee....rather the approach must be to hedge and broaden what is there at one's disposal so there is a greater deterrence at lower cost. I guess that is different from NATO and other such which was formed in a different condition (and latched many purely dependent entities)....I am talking more of one established when all member countries are at or near their peak socioeconomic realisation, each is strong alone as well...I feel we all have long way to go though.

If Vietnam can definitely pursue its own (propietary wise) WMD deterrence without affecting its economy/international relations etc, that would obviously be best option for sure (it will have to gain much more economic weight to do it with little realised negatives in operation in my opinion). Thus such a path is somewhat fuzzy right now (not doubting Vietnam capability should it choose, but it must weigh the options well when it is at the fork in the road, for example it will have to withdraw from the NPT and deal with the foreign policy reaction chain that creates which can have some bearing on its economy depending on the timing). 

But the secondary hedge is to create some form of close alliance with a WMD provider on the NATO format in this specific regard. Essentially this is how say German commanders have WMD at their disposal too (much more directly than say Japan/So-Ko which rely much much more on locally based US commanders)...without attracting most of the negatives of sovereign pursual of the option (given the very formation of NATO, UN from German role in WW2). Again I state this is just the 2nd best option, 1st best is definitely Vietnam doing it fully on its own and fully owning and controlling such weapons and its doctrine. 

Next 10 years or so might be the crucial period to see how Vietnamese strategy forms on this. Japan/So-Ko breaking out with their own WMD capability in the short term depending how things go there because of No-Ko and continued Chinese client-statism will definitely provide some perspective for Vietnam on how to go about it.

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## TaiShang

*Full text of Chinese President Xi's signed article on Vietnamese media*

(Xinhua) 17:29, November 09, 2017

HANOI, Nov. 9 (Xinhua) -- President Xi Jinping on Thursday published a signed article titled "For a New Vista in China-Vietnam Friendship" on mainstream Vietnamese media Nhan Dan of Vietnam ahead of his state visit to Vietnam, where he will also attend the 25th Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders' Meeting in Da Nang.

The following is the full text of the article:

***

*For a New Vista in China-Vietnam Friendship*

_By Xi Jinping, _General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China and President of the People's Republic of China.


At the invitation of General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Nguyen Phu Trong and President of Vietnam Tran Dai Quang, I will soon pay a state visit to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. *Warm feelings well up inside of me as I am about to be back in this beautiful country after my visit at the end of 2015.*

China and Vietnam are very close neighbors connected by mountains and rivers. *Our peoples have engaged in exchange and mutual learning since ancient times.*

In the struggle for independence and liberation in modern times, *our peoples fought shoulder to shoulder, and forged a special bond of "camaraderie + brotherhood." *Chairman Ho Chi Minh spent 12 long years in China for revolutionary activities. *He was like a brother for Chairman Mao Zedong, Premier Zhou Enlai and other Chinese leaders.* *General Nguyen Son devoted himself to the Chinese revolution and traversed the Long March with the Chinese Red Army.* *He became the only foreign military officer commissioned in New China and a rare "general of two countries."* The Chinese people also provided selfless help to Vietnam in its fight for national liberation. Chairman Mao once said that "*The seven hundred million Chinese people are the strong supporters of the Vietnamese people, and the vast Chinese territory is the reliable rear area.*" Dou Jinbo, the first artillery adviser of the Chinese military advisory group to Vietnam, named his newborn daughter "Yue Hua," meaning "Vietnam and China" upon learning of his mission in Vietnam. *This friendship forged with blood by the older generation of leaders of our two parties, countries and peoples* in those tumultuous years must be remembered and cherished forever.

In the new era, our two peoples have worked closely to pursue reform and renewal, and advance the cause of socialism. *We have explored socialist development paths suited to our own national conditions, created miracles in our respective development, and achieved marked progress in our bilateral ties. *The two countries now enjoy deeper political mutual trust and closer high-level exchange. With my visit this time, the top leaders of our two parties and countries will have had mutual visits within a single year twice in just three years.

The two countries have deepened and broadened practical cooperation. *China has been Vietnam's biggest trading partner for 13 years in a row, and Vietnam has become China's biggest trading partner among ASEAN countries.* Bilateral trade in 2016 reached nearly 100 billion U.S. dollars. More and more Chinese companies are investing in Vietnam. For example, as a Chinese company running in Vietnam for over 10 years, the Texhong Textile Group has created over 7,000 jobs in Bac Ninh through the plant it opened locally and contributed significantly to local tax revenues. The Long Jiang Industrial Park in Tien Giang, established mainly by private Chinese investors, now hosts over 30 companies.

The two countries have increased people-to-people exchange. *China has been Vietnam's largest source of foreign tourists, for whom Da Nang and Nha Trang are among the most popular destinations. *There are over 300 passenger flights between the two countries every week. *Both Chinese literature classics such as The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, The Water Margin and contemporary Chinese movies and TV series have a large fan base in Viet Nam.* Do Thi Thanh Hoa, a singer from Viet Nam, *won the monthly championship at the "Avenue of Stars," *a popular singing competition show on the China Central Television. More importantly, our two countries have, through friendly consultations, *delimited the boundaries on land and in the Beibu Gulf and properly managed differences,* creating favorable conditions for the common development of the two countries and for regional peace and stability. All the above examples best illustrate the underlying significance and rich implications of the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership between China and Vietnam.

Today, the two countries have both embarked on a new journey of reform and development, forging ahead toward our respective ambitious goals. The Communist Party of China successfully held its 19th National Congress last month. Overall guidelines and program of action were set out for the future development of the party and the country, drawing a blueprint for China's development between now and the middle of this century.* Our plan is to complete the building of a moderately prosperous society in all respects by 2020; basically realize socialist modernization by 2035; and develop China into a great modern socialist country that is prosperous, strong, democratic, culturally advanced, harmonious, and beautiful by the middle of this century.* We have the confidence and the ability to lead the Chinese people toward fulfilling the Chinese Dream of national rejuvenation. Vietnam is, in line with the guidelines set at the 12th National Congress of the CPV, advancing all-round renewal for early realization of the goal of a prosperous people and a strong, democratic, equitable and advanced industrialized country toward modernity. *We need to work hand in hand more than ever before in our pursuit of dreams of national strength and prosperity.*

As the international and regional situations keep evolving, our two parties and countries face many identical or similar new problems and challenges. China has a saying, *"Adversity makes one stronger, just as polishing makes jade finer."* A Vietnamese saying says, *"Do not put down your oar just because the waves run high."* As good neighbors, friends, comrades and partners whose future is closely interconnected, we need to uphold and further grow our relations, support each other in our endeavors for stability, reform and people's livelihood, jointly advance the cause of socialism and promote regional peace, stability, openness and development. Here, I wish to share with you the following thoughts:

-- *We need to keep to the right direction and achieve a new height in strategic mutual trust.* We need to maintain close high-level engagement and have timely exchange of views on the relations between our two parties and countries and on issues of shared interest to keep the China-Vietnam relations moving in the right direction. We need to actively share experience on state governance and strengthen inter-party interactions, to enrich and develop the theories and practice of socialist development and build a community of shared future with strategic significance.

-- *We need to deepen cooperation and foster new prospects for our interconnected interests. *We need to enhance the complementarity of our development strategies, promote the development of the "Belt and Road" and the "Two Corridors, One Economic Belt," and work for substantive progress in our cooperation in key areas, including infrastructure, trade, industrial capacity, cross-border economic cooperation zones and agriculture, to deliver more benefits to people of our two countries.

-- *We need to expand exchanges and build a new foundation for people-to-people affinity. *We need to carry forward our traditional friendship, promote people-to-people exchange, step up cooperation in culture, education and tourism and between our youth and media organizations, to help our people know each other better and enhance popular support for our friendship to pass on from generation to generation.

-- *We need to strengthen coordination and create new highlights in multilateral cooperation. *We need to follow the trend in today's world and of our times, enhance coordination and cooperation within such multilateral frameworks as the United Nations, Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC), China-ASEAN Cooperation and Lancang-Mekong Cooperation, and jointly champion open and inclusive regional cooperation to uphold the momentum of regional openness and development.

-- *We need to bear in mind the big picture* and write a new chapter of good-neighborliness in our relations. Acting in the larger interest of our own reform, development and stability and China-Vietnam friendship, we need to well manage our differences and disagreements, and stay committed to seeking a fundamental and durable solution to the maritime issues acceptable to both sides through friendly consultation. *We need to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, actively advance the consultation on a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea and jointly uphold peace and stability there.*

Another important agenda of my visit is to attend the 25th APEC Economic Leaders' Meeting in Da Nang. China supports Vietnam in hosting a successful meeting, and will work with Vietnam and other members to engage in practical discussions on deepening regional economic integration, building the Free Trade Area in the Asia-Pacific, strengthening regional connectivity, advancing economic structural reform and innovation, promoting inclusive development and outlining the Post-2020 Vision under the theme of "Creating New Dynamism, Fostering a Shared Future." We look forward to a highly productive meeting that contributes to the common development and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific.

*Chairman Ho Chi Minh once compared the Vietnam-China relationship to the one "between hand and foot, between pestle and mortar, between root and stem, and between elder and younger brothers."* A Chinese proverb also says, *"When brothers are of the same mind, they have the power to cut through metal." *I look forward to having in-depth discussions with the Vietnamese leaders and friends from various sectors on this visit to tap the potential for cooperation, build up friendship, deepen our special ties and jointly create a new vista in China-Vietnam relations.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/1109/c90000-9290820.html

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## Viet

*US President Donald Trump has arrived in Vietnam for the APEC summit. *

*Source: *
AAP
17 MINS AGO

President Donald Trump has arrived in Vietnam to attend the APEC summit amid regional tensions.

Trump touched down on Friday in the coastal city of Da Nang to attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit.

Trump plans to deliver the second of his two major speeches during the trip.

He'll address a CEO summit and aides say the president will outline his vision of free trade in the region, as well as threats posed by North Korea's aggressive nuclear weapons development.

Trump flew to Vietnam from China, where he abandoned the tough talk that defined his presidential campaign. Instead, he flattered Beijing on trade and its approach to North Korea.


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## TaiShang

*President Xi arrives in Vietnam for APEC meeting, state visit*
Xinhua, November 10, 2017

Chinese President Xi Jinping, who is also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, arrived in Da Nang on Friday for the 25th Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders' Meeting and a state visit to the southeast Asian country.

Xi will deliver a speech at the APEC CEO Summit later this afternoon, and attend a dialogue with representatives of the APEC Business Advisory Council, as well as an informal dialogue with leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

*On the sidelines of the APEC events, the Chinese president is scheduled to hold a series of bilateral meetings with leaders of other countries on Saturday.*

This year's APEC Economic Leaders' Week is held under the theme of "Creating New Dynamism, Fostering a Shared Future."

In a signed article published in Nhan Dan, the official newspaper of the Communist Party of Vietnam, Xi wished Vietnam a great success hosting the APEC meeting, saying that China looks forward to a "highly productive meeting that contributes to the common development and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific."

The overseas trip is Xi's first after the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China. *After attending the APEC meeting in Da Nang on Nov. 10-11,* *he will pay state visits to Vietnam and Laos on Nov. 12-14.*

The APEC is a regional economic forum established in 1989 to leverage the growing interdependence of the Asia-Pacific.

APEC currently has 21 member economies, namely, Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, China, China's Hong Kong, Chinese Taipei, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Peru, the Philippines, Russia, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand, the United States and Vietnam.






http://www.china.org.cn/world/2017-11/10/content_41872583.htm

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## Svantana

Mr. Joko Widodo has arrived in Vietnam for the APEC summit 2017

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## TenLua

TaiShang said:


> *Full text of Chinese President Xi's signed article on Vietnamese media*
> 
> (Xinhua) 17:29, November 09, 2017
> 
> HANOI, Nov. 9 (Xinhua) -- President Xi Jinping on Thursday published a signed article titled "For a New Vista in China-Vietnam Friendship" on mainstream Vietnamese media Nhan Dan of Vietnam ahead of his state visit to Vietnam, where he will also attend the 25th Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Economic Leaders' Meeting in Da Nang.
> 
> The following is the full text of the article:
> 
> ***
> 
> *For a New Vista in China-Vietnam Friendship*
> 
> _By Xi Jinping, _General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China and President of the People's Republic of China.
> 
> 
> At the invitation of General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Nguyen Phu Trong and President of Vietnam Tran Dai Quang, I will soon pay a state visit to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. *Warm feelings well up inside of me as I am about to be back in this beautiful country after my visit at the end of 2015.*
> 
> China and Vietnam are very close neighbors connected by mountains and rivers. *Our peoples have engaged in exchange and mutual learning since ancient times.*
> 
> In the struggle for independence and liberation in modern times, *our peoples fought shoulder to shoulder, and forged a special bond of "camaraderie + brotherhood." *Chairman Ho Chi Minh spent 12 long years in China for revolutionary activities. *He was like a brother for Chairman Mao Zedong, Premier Zhou Enlai and other Chinese leaders.* *General Nguyen Son devoted himself to the Chinese revolution and traversed the Long March with the Chinese Red Army.* *He became the only foreign military officer commissioned in New China and a rare "general of two countries."* The Chinese people also provided selfless help to Vietnam in its fight for national liberation. Chairman Mao once said that "*The seven hundred million Chinese people are the strong supporters of the Vietnamese people, and the vast Chinese territory is the reliable rear area.*" Dou Jinbo, the first artillery adviser of the Chinese military advisory group to Vietnam, named his newborn daughter "Yue Hua," meaning "Vietnam and China" upon learning of his mission in Vietnam. *This friendship forged with blood by the older generation of leaders of our two parties, countries and peoples* in those tumultuous years must be remembered and cherished forever.
> 
> In the new era, our two peoples have worked closely to pursue reform and renewal, and advance the cause of socialism. *We have explored socialist development paths suited to our own national conditions, created miracles in our respective development, and achieved marked progress in our bilateral ties. *The two countries now enjoy deeper political mutual trust and closer high-level exchange. With my visit this time, the top leaders of our two parties and countries will have had mutual visits within a single year twice in just three years.
> 
> The two countries have deepened and broadened practical cooperation. *China has been Vietnam's biggest trading partner for 13 years in a row, and Vietnam has become China's biggest trading partner among ASEAN countries.* Bilateral trade in 2016 reached nearly 100 billion U.S. dollars. More and more Chinese companies are investing in Vietnam. For example, as a Chinese company running in Vietnam for over 10 years, the Texhong Textile Group has created over 7,000 jobs in Bac Ninh through the plant it opened locally and contributed significantly to local tax revenues. The Long Jiang Industrial Park in Tien Giang, established mainly by private Chinese investors, now hosts over 30 companies.
> 
> The two countries have increased people-to-people exchange. *China has been Vietnam's largest source of foreign tourists, for whom Da Nang and Nha Trang are among the most popular destinations. *There are over 300 passenger flights between the two countries every week. *Both Chinese literature classics such as The Romance of the Three Kingdoms, The Water Margin and contemporary Chinese movies and TV series have a large fan base in Viet Nam.* Do Thi Thanh Hoa, a singer from Viet Nam, *won the monthly championship at the "Avenue of Stars," *a popular singing competition show on the China Central Television. More importantly, our two countries have, through friendly consultations, *delimited the boundaries on land and in the Beibu Gulf and properly managed differences,* creating favorable conditions for the common development of the two countries and for regional peace and stability. All the above examples best illustrate the underlying significance and rich implications of the comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership between China and Vietnam.
> 
> Today, the two countries have both embarked on a new journey of reform and development, forging ahead toward our respective ambitious goals. The Communist Party of China successfully held its 19th National Congress last month. Overall guidelines and program of action were set out for the future development of the party and the country, drawing a blueprint for China's development between now and the middle of this century.* Our plan is to complete the building of a moderately prosperous society in all respects by 2020; basically realize socialist modernization by 2035; and develop China into a great modern socialist country that is prosperous, strong, democratic, culturally advanced, harmonious, and beautiful by the middle of this century.* We have the confidence and the ability to lead the Chinese people toward fulfilling the Chinese Dream of national rejuvenation. Vietnam is, in line with the guidelines set at the 12th National Congress of the CPV, advancing all-round renewal for early realization of the goal of a prosperous people and a strong, democratic, equitable and advanced industrialized country toward modernity. *We need to work hand in hand more than ever before in our pursuit of dreams of national strength and prosperity.*
> 
> As the international and regional situations keep evolving, our two parties and countries face many identical or similar new problems and challenges. China has a saying, *"Adversity makes one stronger, just as polishing makes jade finer."* A Vietnamese saying says, *"Do not put down your oar just because the waves run high."* As good neighbors, friends, comrades and partners whose future is closely interconnected, we need to uphold and further grow our relations, support each other in our endeavors for stability, reform and people's livelihood, jointly advance the cause of socialism and promote regional peace, stability, openness and development. Here, I wish to share with you the following thoughts:
> 
> -- *We need to keep to the right direction and achieve a new height in strategic mutual trust.* We need to maintain close high-level engagement and have timely exchange of views on the relations between our two parties and countries and on issues of shared interest to keep the China-Vietnam relations moving in the right direction. We need to actively share experience on state governance and strengthen inter-party interactions, to enrich and develop the theories and practice of socialist development and build a community of shared future with strategic significance.
> 
> -- *We need to deepen cooperation and foster new prospects for our interconnected interests. *We need to enhance the complementarity of our development strategies, promote the development of the "Belt and Road" and the "Two Corridors, One Economic Belt," and work for substantive progress in our cooperation in key areas, including infrastructure, trade, industrial capacity, cross-border economic cooperation zones and agriculture, to deliver more benefits to people of our two countries.
> 
> -- *We need to expand exchanges and build a new foundation for people-to-people affinity. *We need to carry forward our traditional friendship, promote people-to-people exchange, step up cooperation in culture, education and tourism and between our youth and media organizations, to help our people know each other better and enhance popular support for our friendship to pass on from generation to generation.
> 
> -- *We need to strengthen coordination and create new highlights in multilateral cooperation. *We need to follow the trend in today's world and of our times, enhance coordination and cooperation within such multilateral frameworks as the United Nations, Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC), China-ASEAN Cooperation and Lancang-Mekong Cooperation, and jointly champion open and inclusive regional cooperation to uphold the momentum of regional openness and development.
> 
> -- *We need to bear in mind the big picture* and write a new chapter of good-neighborliness in our relations. Acting in the larger interest of our own reform, development and stability and China-Vietnam friendship, we need to well manage our differences and disagreements, and stay committed to seeking a fundamental and durable solution to the maritime issues acceptable to both sides through friendly consultation. *We need to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, actively advance the consultation on a Code of Conduct in the South China Sea and jointly uphold peace and stability there.*
> 
> Another important agenda of my visit is to attend the 25th APEC Economic Leaders' Meeting in Da Nang. China supports Vietnam in hosting a successful meeting, and will work with Vietnam and other members to engage in practical discussions on deepening regional economic integration, building the Free Trade Area in the Asia-Pacific, strengthening regional connectivity, advancing economic structural reform and innovation, promoting inclusive development and outlining the Post-2020 Vision under the theme of "Creating New Dynamism, Fostering a Shared Future." We look forward to a highly productive meeting that contributes to the common development and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific.
> 
> *Chairman Ho Chi Minh once compared the Vietnam-China relationship to the one "between hand and foot, between pestle and mortar, between root and stem, and between elder and younger brothers."* A Chinese proverb also says, *"When brothers are of the same mind, they have the power to cut through metal." *I look forward to having in-depth discussions with the Vietnamese leaders and friends from various sectors on this visit to tap the potential for cooperation, build up friendship, deepen our special ties and jointly create a new vista in China-Vietnam relations.
> 
> http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/1109/c90000-9290820.html



How sweet. Now, would you please stop sending fake food over the borders?


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## TaiShang

TenLua said:


> How sweet. Now, would you please stop sending fake food over the borders?



You mean contaminated US beef and GMO food?

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## TenLua

TaiShang said:


> You mean contaminated US beef and GMO food?



That too. But I was really referring to plastic rice.


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## TaiShang

TenLua said:


> That too. But I was really referring to plastic rice.



Pay the market price and you will get your money's worth. Keep your capitalists, who do the middlemen's work as traders, under check. It is usually with them that corruption and all other things happen. *Producers cannot sell you directly.* You have so many Vietnamese middle men.

Producer will deliver what the customer (the importer) demands. Again, check your (potentially) corrupt traders who may demand low quality products. 

Besides, plastic rice news involved an African country and was a hoax. 

Anyways, this is defense forum. Let's continue on the trade forum.

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## TenLua

TaiShang said:


> Pay the market price and you will get your money's worth. Keep your capitalists, who do the middlemen's work as traders, under check. It is usually with them that corruption and all other things happen. *Producers cannot sell you directly.* You have so many Vietnamese middle men.
> 
> Producer will deliver what the customer (the importer) demands. Again, check your (potentially) corrupt traders who may demand low quality products.
> 
> Besides, plastic rice news involved an African country and was a hoax.
> 
> Anyways, this is defense forum. Let's continue on the trade forum.



Ahhh. What about the fake eggs and grapes?


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## TaiShang

TenLua said:


> Ahhh. What about the fake eggs and grapes?



Development, my friend. Stages of development. China, East Asia in general including Vietnam, has been experiencing growth in quality of life, which includes food. 

There is also the issue of communication. It is best to approach Western reporting cautiously. For this, it is better Vietnam and China encourages better people-to-people communication.

***

*Mandarin gaining popularity in Vietnam*
China Daily, November 11, 2017





Vietnamese student Nguyen Duc Tien speaks at the 16th Chinese Proficiency Competition for Foreign College Students in Ho Chi Minh City on May 26. [Photo/Xinhua]


Nong Khanh Ly, a 21-year-old Vietnamese woman, amazed the Chinese audience at a television quiz show on culture with her fluent Mandarin and formidable recall of classical poetry.

She was praised for reciting the writing of Li Qingzhao, a household poetess of the Song Dynasty (960-1279).

"I like the sentimental mist that lingers among her lines," said the girl, *"the more you learn about the language, the deeper you fall in love with it."*

The senior student is majoring in Chinese at Guangxi University in Nanning, the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region.

"Like most young students in Vietnam, I dreamed of going abroad after high school, and quite a number of us thought China was the best choice to see the world for both its ancient and modern civilization, which is full of charm," Nong said.

Cultural appeal is a big factor attracting her country's youth to pick up Chinese, she said.

"Since different Chinese TV series and films online are especially popular in Vietnam, if you know the language then you don't have to be limited by the translation," she said.

Meng Ruisen, a teacher at the International Education Institution at Guangxi University, said the institution helps make Chinese attractive to foreigners by promoting traditional Chinese culture as well as its dynamic modern civilization.

"We offer foreign students not only culture courses but also provide chances to experience day-to-day Chinese life in their spare time. During traditional festivals we hold homestays and at other times we have Chinese language corners or language competitions to improve their skills and broaden their horizons."

Chen Gang, deputy dean of the institution, told China Daily that financial support from the Chinese government is the other consideration contributing to the nation's popularity.

*In 2016, 45 percent of the 1,679 international students that studied at Guangxi University were Vietnamese.*

He said geographical proximity is another reason.

"Among the students from Asian countries with full Guangxi scholarships, 20 are from the four Vietnamese provinces bordering Guangxi," Chen said.

*As one of those 20, Nong gets a 1,000 yuan ($150) subsistence allowance every month apart from free tuition and accommodations*.

The university also maintains close connections with 30 universities and institutions in Vietnam to facilitate the promotion of Chinese culture by organizing Chinese training camps annually, Chen said.

Nguyen Van Tung, who teaches Chinese at Hung Vuong University in Vietnam's Phu Tho province, also noticed the growing popularity of Chinese. *At his university, 120 students major in Chinese and over 600 are also learning Chinese while majoring in other subjects.*

With the deepening cooperation between the two counties, it's quite common to see Chinese tourists and business executives in Vietnam, which creates job opportunities for those who know Chinese, he said.

"I once studied Chinese at Guangxi University. After studying for four years, the 28 graduates in my class were all hired by companies and institutions with higher salaries than those who learned English," Tung said.

Chinese has become more accessible in Vietnam, he said. Most universities offer professional courses and there are various training programs to choose from or you can learn by yourself using an online class, he added.

http://china.org.cn/world/2017-11/11/content_41877466.htm


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## TenLua

TaiShang said:


> Development, my friend. Stages of development. China, East Asia in general including Vietnam, has been experiencing growth in quality of life, which includes food.
> 
> There is also the issue of communication. It is best to approach Western reporting cautiously. For this, it is better Vietnam and China encourages better people-to-people communication.
> 
> ***
> 
> *Mandarin gaining popularity in Vietnam*
> China Daily, November 11, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese student Nguyen Duc Tien speaks at the 16th Chinese Proficiency Competition for Foreign College Students in Ho Chi Minh City on May 26. [Photo/Xinhua]
> 
> 
> Nong Khanh Ly, a 21-year-old Vietnamese woman, amazed the Chinese audience at a television quiz show on culture with her fluent Mandarin and formidable recall of classical poetry.
> 
> She was praised for reciting the writing of Li Qingzhao, a household poetess of the Song Dynasty (960-1279).
> 
> "I like the sentimental mist that lingers among her lines," said the girl, *"the more you learn about the language, the deeper you fall in love with it."*
> 
> The senior student is majoring in Chinese at Guangxi University in Nanning, the Guangxi Zhuang autonomous region.
> 
> "Like most young students in Vietnam, I dreamed of going abroad after high school, and quite a number of us thought China was the best choice to see the world for both its ancient and modern civilization, which is full of charm," Nong said.
> 
> Cultural appeal is a big factor attracting her country's youth to pick up Chinese, she said.
> 
> "Since different Chinese TV series and films online are especially popular in Vietnam, if you know the language then you don't have to be limited by the translation," she said.
> 
> Meng Ruisen, a teacher at the International Education Institution at Guangxi University, said the institution helps make Chinese attractive to foreigners by promoting traditional Chinese culture as well as its dynamic modern civilization.
> 
> "We offer foreign students not only culture courses but also provide chances to experience day-to-day Chinese life in their spare time. During traditional festivals we hold homestays and at other times we have Chinese language corners or language competitions to improve their skills and broaden their horizons."
> 
> Chen Gang, deputy dean of the institution, told China Daily that financial support from the Chinese government is the other consideration contributing to the nation's popularity.
> 
> *In 2016, 45 percent of the 1,679 international students that studied at Guangxi University were Vietnamese.*
> 
> He said geographical proximity is another reason.
> 
> "Among the students from Asian countries with full Guangxi scholarships, 20 are from the four Vietnamese provinces bordering Guangxi," Chen said.
> 
> *As one of those 20, Nong gets a 1,000 yuan ($150) subsistence allowance every month apart from free tuition and accommodations*.
> 
> The university also maintains close connections with 30 universities and institutions in Vietnam to facilitate the promotion of Chinese culture by organizing Chinese training camps annually, Chen said.
> 
> Nguyen Van Tung, who teaches Chinese at Hung Vuong University in Vietnam's Phu Tho province, also noticed the growing popularity of Chinese. *At his university, 120 students major in Chinese and over 600 are also learning Chinese while majoring in other subjects.*
> 
> With the deepening cooperation between the two counties, it's quite common to see Chinese tourists and business executives in Vietnam, which creates job opportunities for those who know Chinese, he said.
> 
> "I once studied Chinese at Guangxi University. After studying for four years, the 28 graduates in my class were all hired by companies and institutions with higher salaries than those who learned English," Tung said.
> 
> Chinese has become more accessible in Vietnam, he said. Most universities offer professional courses and there are various training programs to choose from or you can learn by yourself using an online class, he added.
> 
> http://china.org.cn/world/2017-11/11/content_41877466.htm




Eh. Can't argue with that.


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## TaiShang

TenLua said:


> Eh. Can't argue with that.



Really, I know from Taiwan. Our businessman practically invented gutter oil but it did not make big news. 

Over the years, lots of milk and other food scandals, yet, not much publicity in the international media. 

I do not complain this favorable treatment but the Mainland (Motherland) is often been targeted very harshly and unfairly by the West. Perhaps they hold the Mainland in such a high esteem (LOL). 

My understanding is, they will tolerate you no matter what up to the point they think you become a threat to their interests. Then, the whole media will create news to libel and slander even if there is not one in reality.

Overall, nonetheless, East Asian cuisine is healthier, which is shown in the great improvement in longevity.


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## TenLua

TaiShang said:


> Really, I know from Taiwan. Our businessman practically invented gutter oil but it did not make big news.
> 
> Over the years, lots of milk and other food scandals, yet, not much publicity in the international media.
> 
> I do not complain this favorable treatment but the Mainland (Motherland) is often been targeted very harshly and unfairly by the West. Perhaps they hold the Mainland in such a high esteem (LOL).
> 
> My understanding is, they will tolerate you no matter what up to the point they think you become a threat to their interests. Then, the whole media will create news to libel and slander even if there is not one in reality.
> 
> Overall, nonetheless, East Asian cuisine is healthier, which is shown in the great improvement in longevity.



It's common knowledge even in the west our media is propaganda 24/7.


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## Viet

Xi Jinping in Vietnam
I think we shall copy the chinese style by adding females into the guard of honors


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## Viet

Someone in VN has counted how many times Xi Jinping names his country as “Great Power” when he delivers a speech at the Party Congress in Beijing: 26. Amazing. We have yet to count how many times this time when he delivers a speech at Apec meeting in Vietnam.

Anyway if coming to investments, Singapore is a great power.


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## Viet

Airforce One in Hanoi


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## peruni

Carlosa said:


> The chinese are the first ones that started modifying the S-75 design as a ground to ground missile.



S-75 was used on numerous times as a ground to ground missile. I even think Vietnam has used it in such a way few times during war with USA if my memory is still good.

Almaz has designed almost all missiles systems to be capable to attack ground target, it is a feature made by designer and producers of Dvina and Neva and many other missiles systems from Soviet Union and today Russia.

It was always there but it is not a primary role of system so it is rare to talk about it or event see that capabilities in usual catalogues that are available to public with short descriptions of systems.

Iraq has used in wars SA-2 and SA-3 as guided to attack ground targets, in Yugoslavia wars that air defense systems was used in such a role to attack ground targets.

In Iraq with some help and ideas from Yugoslavia who had a project of Vulcan ground to air(later made and modified for ground to ground attacks but never adopted in armament of YPA) in late 50's and mid 60's, Iraq under sanctions started development in 90's of ground to ground unguided version of ground to air guided missile. S-75 has a liquid fuel so it was a potential good candidate to convert it to a ballistic missile that does not requires quick deployment.

There was also some modifications of ground to sea or sea to sea missiles for ground to ground attack, some are produced new with such a option it was a Soviet school that propagates - enables such diversities in missiles systems.

For example when we talk about sea to sea missiles Styx P-15 missiles was modified to be used for ground to ground role, Rubez was one of older systems capable to attack ground targets.

New missiles systems such a s-300,s-400 and Bastions have such a capabilities to attack ground targets but it is considered secondary role and not much advertised.

BTW

Iran has obtained much of its missiles technologies from Iraq and Yugoslavia not directly but because both states have collapsed, people where willing to give and sell information trough some side channels and in case of Iraq many scientist working on military project after invasion of Iraq fled to Iran and they took their knowledge with them.

Iran have modified many land to air and sea to sea missiles for ground to ground role.

Main sources of all Iranian missile technologies are N.Korea. China Yugoslavia and Iraq. They(Iran) have in recent two decades perfected some of technologies they previously copied, obtained, steel and developed now in use their own unique designs some of them are very successful and very good.

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## Viet

Hanoi November 11. Vietnam/United States bilateral summit

Interesting remark of Donald Trump: he says he seeks strong partners not weak ones. The meeting between US president and VN communist chief is behind closed doors. Some of the agreements: VN will buy US aircraft engines, trucks and invest in an Alaska gas and pipeline project. I believe the Chinese invest money in other places but not in Alaska.


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## Viet

Interesting: the US government wants to sell military hardware to the former enemy Vietnam to increase exports. Donald Trump complains on Sunday about the United States trade deficit with Vietnam: US$32 billion in 2016. He mentions US-made Patriot missile defence system that Vietnam can buy. Yes make America great again Mr President.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/trump-urges-vietnam-buy-missiles-171112083317942.html


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## TaiShang

Interesting line-up. 

Why put 'Trump the missile-salesperson' in the second row?

China to the right, Indonesia to the left?

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## TenLua

EastWind said:


> Interesting: the US government wants to sell military hardware to the former enemy Vietnam to increase exports. Donald Trump complains on Sunday about the United States trade deficit with Vietnam: US$32 billion in 2016. He mentions US-made Patriot missile defence system that Vietnam can buy. Yes make America great again Mr President.
> 
> http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/trump-urges-vietnam-buy-missiles-171112083317942.html



I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great. Which makes sense because I do not think we would sell a former enemy anything of real effectiveness.


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## TaiShang

*Xi calls for advancing of China-Vietnam ties*
Xinhua, November 13, 2017



Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, addresses a welcoming banquet held by General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the International Convention Center in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua] 

Chinese President Xi Jinping on Sunday called for advancing the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership while attending a welcoming banquet in Hanoi.

General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang* held a banquet for Xi,* also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, at the International Convention Center.

Xi stressed that his state visit to Vietnam aims to consolidate traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and chart out future for bilateral ties.

The fact that China and Vietnam both follow the leadership of Communist parties and socialist road, jointly strengthen solidarity and cooperation, as well as seek prosperity, is in line with the fundamental interests of both peoples and conducive to the peace, stability and development of the region and the world, said Xi.

Xi urged the two countries continue to be good neighbors, good friends, good comrades and good partners.

Trong, on behalf of the Vietnamese party, government and people, extended warm welcome to Xi, saying that Vietnam and China are neighbors with traditional friendship.

Vietnam attaches great importance to Vietnam-China ties and is willing to work together with China to enhance traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and ensure sustainable, healthy and stable development of the *comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership*, Trong said.

Trong believed that Xi's visit will inject new impetus to the bilateral ties.

Xi arrived in Hanoi on Sunday for a state visit to the Southeast Asian country. It is his second visit to Vietnam as China's head of state and top CPC leader. His previous state visit was in 2015.

http://china.org.cn/world/2017-11/13/content_41882336.htm










Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, and Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee, witness the signing of a memorandum of understanding on joint implementation of the Belt and Road Initiative and Vietnam's "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan, as well as a series of cooperation documents in such areas as industrial capacity, energy, cross-border economic cooperation zone, e-commerce, human resources, economy and trade, finance, culture, health, media, social science, and border defense, after their talks in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. (Xinhua/Yao Dawei)

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## gambit

TenLua said:


> I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great.


Soviet/Russian/Chinese gear ain't something to cheer about either. When I was active duty, I had a chance to see the classified technical analyses of the MIG-25. The jet is essentially crap.

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## TaiShang

*Urgent: China, Vietnam agree to fully, effectively implement DOC*
Xinhua, November 13, 2017
HANOI, Nov. 13 (Xinhua) -- *China and Vietnam agreed to fully and effectively implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC)*, according to a joint statement released on Monday by the two countries.

The two sides also agreed to reach the Code of Conduct (COC) in the South China Sea as soon as possible on the basis of consultation, according to the statement. 

http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2017-11/13/content_41884500.htm

*Urgent: Vietnam reaffirms adherence to one-China policy*
Xinhua, November 13, 2017
HANOI, Nov. 13 (Xinhua) -- Vietnam reaffirms its firm adherence to the one-China policy in a joint statement issued by China and Vietnam on Monday.

In the statement, the Vietnamese side voices support for the peaceful development of cross-Strait relations and *the great cause of China's peaceful reunification, saying it will resolutely oppose any separatist attempts for "Taiwan independence."*

Vietnam does not have any official relations with Taiwan and China appreciates this, according to the statement.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2017-11/13/content_41884451.htm

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## TenLua

gambit said:


> Soviet/Russian/Chinese gear ain't something to cheer about either. When I was active duty, I had a chance to see the classified technical analyses of the MIG-25. The jet is essentially crap.



Why do you say that?


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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> *Xi calls for advancing of China-Vietnam ties*
> Xinhua, November 13, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, addresses a welcoming banquet held by General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the International Convention Center in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. [Photo/Xinhua]
> 
> Chinese President Xi Jinping on Sunday called for advancing the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership while attending a welcoming banquet in Hanoi.
> 
> General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee Nguyen Phu Trong and Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang* held a banquet for Xi,* also general secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee, at the International Convention Center.
> 
> Xi stressed that his state visit to Vietnam aims to consolidate traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and chart out future for bilateral ties.
> 
> The fact that China and Vietnam both follow the leadership of Communist parties and socialist road, jointly strengthen solidarity and cooperation, as well as seek prosperity, is in line with the fundamental interests of both peoples and conducive to the peace, stability and development of the region and the world, said Xi.
> 
> Xi urged the two countries continue to be good neighbors, good friends, good comrades and good partners.
> 
> Trong, on behalf of the Vietnamese party, government and people, extended warm welcome to Xi, saying that Vietnam and China are neighbors with traditional friendship.
> 
> Vietnam attaches great importance to Vietnam-China ties and is willing to work together with China to enhance traditional friendship, deepen practical cooperation and ensure sustainable, healthy and stable development of the *comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership*, Trong said.
> 
> Trong believed that Xi's visit will inject new impetus to the bilateral ties.
> 
> Xi arrived in Hanoi on Sunday for a state visit to the Southeast Asian country. It is his second visit to Vietnam as China's head of state and top CPC leader. His previous state visit was in 2015.
> 
> http://china.org.cn/world/2017-11/13/content_41882336.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, and Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee, witness the signing of a memorandum of understanding on joint implementation of the Belt and Road Initiative and Vietnam's "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan, as well as a series of cooperation documents in such areas as industrial capacity, energy, cross-border economic cooperation zone, e-commerce, human resources, economy and trade, finance, culture, health, media, social science, and border defense, after their talks in Hanoi, Vietnam, Nov. 12, 2017. (Xinhua/Yao Dawei)


I read a bit thru the 19 agreements signed during the visit of Xi Jinping. Not a breakthrough but more substance than just a cooperation between the two countries Red Cross both sides had agreed at last summit. Vietnam gives a goahead for a Chinese Bank and a tyre manufacturing plants.


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## gambit

TenLua said:


> Why do you say that?


Let us take your comment...

*I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great.*

What have you read ?

Any time we want to talk about hardware, whether it is for civilian or military purpose, inevitably we tread into the technical realm.

There is an old programmer's advice: The software does not do what you wanted it to do, but it does what you tell it to do.

There is a great difference in what you want and what you finally had to do. Hardware is no different. Am not talking about the Patriot missile or the MIG-25. Am talking about the intent of your question.

What does 'all that great' mean ? Is there an internationally accepted standard for missile combat successes ? What is that standard ? What are the criteria that establishes that standard ? How were those criteria tested before they were accepted to become a standard ?

The reality is that there are more credible informally accepted standard on what is a 'great infantryman' than there are for what is a 'great air defense missile', especially when the target is another missile and not an aircraft. The Patriot missile was *NOT* originally designed to be used against another missile. So when it was used in that manner, of course it will have mixed results.

Whenever people criticize the Patriot missile in that role -- and am not saying you are such a critic -- they are not interested in discussions of the technical issues involved. It is like criticizing a truck for failure to qualify for a Formula One race. And the criticism is directed at those who do not care to research on what is a 'truck' and what is that Formula One racer. The gullible will believe the vehicles are technically the same, therefore, the critics must be correct.

I have presented the technical arguments on the Patriot missile on this forum many times over the yrs. I can practically sense over the Internet that the critics glazed their eyes at the technical facts. Am not talking about high level math equations but just general principles.

For example, have you heard of 'intercept guidance laws' such as 'proportional navigation' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a243123.pdf

Would you believe that the sport of hockey uses PN in analyzing tactics ? Not just for the puck on the ice but on how players can intercept opponents.

Proportional Navigation is just one of many variations of guidance laws that forms the foundation of missile designs. A project would involve mathematicians, programmers, aerodynamicists, propulsion engineers, and material specialists.

Critics of American weapons systems are not interested in these items. Let me know if you are willing to be objective and learn new things.


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## TenLua

gambit said:


> Let us take your comment...
> 
> *I read that the patriot missile defense system isnt all that great.*
> 
> What have you read ?
> 
> Any time we want to talk about hardware, whether it is for civilian or military purpose, inevitably we tread into the technical realm.
> 
> There is an old programmer's advice: The software does not do what you wanted it to do, but it does what you tell it to do.
> 
> There is a great difference in what you want and what you finally had to do. Hardware is no different. Am not talking about the Patriot missile or the MIG-25. Am talking about the intent of your question.
> 
> What does 'all that great' mean ? Is there an internationally accepted standard for missile combat successes ? What is that standard ? What are the criteria that establishes that standard ? How were those criteria tested before they were accepted to become a standard ?
> 
> The reality is that there are more credible informally accepted standard on what is a 'great infantryman' than there are for what is a 'great air defense missile', especially when the target is another missile and not an aircraft. The Patriot missile was *NOT* originally designed to be used against another missile. So when it was used in that manner, of course it will have mixed results.
> 
> Whenever people criticize the Patriot missile in that role -- and am not saying you are such a critic -- they are not interested in discussions of the technical issues involved. It is like criticizing a truck for failure to qualify for a Formula One race. And the criticism is directed at those who do not care to research on what is a 'truck' and what is that Formula One racer. The gullible will believe the vehicles are technically the same, therefore, the critics must be correct.
> 
> I have presented the technical arguments on the Patriot missile on this forum many times over the yrs. I can practically sense over the Internet that the critics glazed their eyes at the technical facts. Am not talking about high level math equations but just general principles.
> 
> For example, have you heard of 'intercept guidance laws' such as 'proportional navigation' ?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_navigation
> http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a243123.pdf
> 
> Would you believe that the sport of hockey uses PN in analyzing tactics ? Not just for the puck on the ice but on how players can intercept opponents.
> 
> Proportional Navigation is just one of many variations of guidance laws that forms the foundation of missile designs. A project would involve mathematicians, programmers, aerodynamicists, propulsion engineers, and material specialists.
> 
> Critics of American weapons systems are not interested in these items. Let me know if you are willing to be objective and learn new things.



Enlighten me.


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## gambit

TenLua said:


> Enlighten me.


Which part of the Patriot missile system would you like to know better ?


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## TenLua

gambit said:


> Which part of the Patriot missile system would you like to know better ?



Its radar.


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## Viet

*Trump begged Vietnam to buy US military equipment because he needed ‘quick wins’: report*




BRAD REED
14 NOV 2017 AT 07:05 ET 



President Donald Trump reportedly begged the Vietnamese government to buy American military equipment because he needed “quick wins” ahead of upcoming elections.

Sources tell Bloomberg that Trump grilled Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc about why his country wasn’t spending more money buying American weapons.

“He needed quick wins, he told his team in the room, because he’d be running for re-election before anyone realized,” Bloombergreports. “And weapons sales, in Trump’s view, are good for his approval ratings.”

Trump apparently spent much of his trip hawking American weapons to other countries, as he sought to emulate the early success he had in cutting a massive weapons deal with Saudi Arabia earlier this year.

“Trump rarely set down in a country without pointing out that buying a few F-18s would go a long way toward winning his heart,” Bloomberg writes. “But he’ll return home to Washington without having secured a major new order for American defense contractors.”

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## gambit

TenLua said:


> Its radar.


Google is your friend...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot

Overall, the system has several radars, including the radar on the missile itself, and each performs a specific function.


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## TenLua

gambit said:


> Google is your friend...
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot
> 
> Overall, the system has several radars, including the radar on the missile itself, and each performs a specific function.



What about the missiles payload.....

Aircraft target hit rate....

Missile target hit rate.....

At 3 million USD per missile, what are your thoughts on cost effectiveness of this system. Recently, one was use to shoot down a $200 drone. 

Can an enemy bankrupt a country by sending swarms of missiles that cost 10x cheaper than the systems missile?


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## gambit

TenLua said:


> What about the missiles payload.....


Google is your friend...

https://www.armyrecognition.com/uni...t_specifications_information_description.html


> The high-explosive 90kg warhead is situated behind the terminal guidance section.


Not that difficult to find.



TenLua said:


> Aircraft target hit rate....
> 
> Missile target hit rate.....


Wait until a war.



TenLua said:


> At 3 million USD per missile, what are your thoughts on cost effectiveness of this system. Recently, one was use to shoot down a $200 drone.
> 
> Can an enemy bankrupt a country by sending swarms of missiles that cost 10x cheaper than the systems missile?


If this is intended to ridicule the system, it means you do not understand warfare in general.

An UAV may cost less than the Patriot missile, but if the UAV is not destroyed, what is the value of the intelligence the UAV gathered and returned to the enemy ?


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## Svantana

Indonesian Aerospace NC-212i AX-2121 project for Viet nam

        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram

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## TenLua

gambit said:


> Google is your friend...
> 
> https://www.armyrecognition.com/uni...t_specifications_information_description.html
> 
> Not that difficult to find.
> 
> 
> Wait until a war.
> 
> 
> If this is intended to ridicule the system, it means you do not understand warfare in general.
> 
> An UAV may cost less than the Patriot missile, but if the UAV is not destroyed, what is the value of the intelligence the UAV gathered and returned to the enemy ?



If I wanted google to enlighten me, I would have used google. You offered to educate me on the subject, so, I am asking you. Clearly, you know this system better than anyone else, and I like my information straight from the horses mouth.

To address your last statement, you do not think it is idiotic? On the contrary, you do not seem to understand warfare, not even its fundamentals. You might make a good cannon fodder, but your understanding of warfare on a macro level is cartoonish at best; here's why: UAV cost less than a patriot missile, that is apparent. And I, the your enemy, send over $200 USD UAV and I know you must destroy it or risk losing valuable intel, far more valuable than 3 million USD. Suppose that I make 15000 UAV for the price of one missile and I keep sending them over and you continue to launch your expensive missile at me, I've already won the war via the economic front. And as you know, far more wars have been won on the economic front than it is won on the battlefield. 

We're not discussing dynamics of war here, we're discussing the economics of war.

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## Viet

gambit said:


> Which part of the Patriot missile system would you like to know better ?


Patriot is the core of NATO air defense over Western Europe. I don’t think we will buy the missile system though even Donald Trump offers it. It is almost impossible to integrate US missile system with the system of the Russians.


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## gambit

TenLua said:


> If I wanted google to enlighten me, I would have used google.


It is a good start.



TenLua said:


> To address your last statement, you do not think it is idiotic? On the contrary, you do not seem to understand warfare, not even its fundamentals. You might make a good cannon fodder, but your understanding of warfare on a macro level is cartoonish at best; here's why: *UAV cost less than a patriot missile, that is apparent.* And I, the your enemy, send over $200 USD UAV and I know you must destroy it or risk losing valuable intel, far more valuable than 3 million USD. Suppose that I make 15000 UAV for the price of one missile and I keep sending them over and you continue to launch your expensive missile at me, I've already won the war via the economic front. And as you know, far more wars have been won on the economic front than it is won on the battlefield.
> 
> We're not discussing dynamics of war here, we're discussing the economics of war.


That -- highlighted -- is hilarious.

If you know of a radar system that will display the manufacturing cost of an intruder so that the defender can make a financially informed decision on whether to shoot, I would love to know who makes it. Such a radar system would save the Patriot battery commander the mockery of after-the-fact Internet experts.

My understanding of warfare is cartoonish ? Unlike the movies, when a radar display an unidentified airborne object, missiles do not automatically launches. If that is what you believe, then what cartoons have you been watching.

For example...Is the airspace contested or controlled and which status is more likely to have unidentified airborne objects ?

The answer determines the response mechanism and time. Have you even heard of the phrase and idea of 'contested airspace' ?

Contrary to the movies, in contested airspace, unidentified airborne objects actually *DELAYS* missile launches. In contested airspace, not all friendlies are quick to respond to IFF queries. Therefore, you as the defender must give benefit of the doubt lest you get involved in fratricide, aka 'blue on blue' killing. On the other hand, in contested airspace, if there is an order from above that all friendlies must either be quick to respond to IFF queries or stay out, then you can set automatic defensive measures.

Since we know that no radar system can display the manufacturing cost of an unidentified airborne object, even a cheaply made UAV must be treated as a multi-million$$ high capability threat. Do you understand now ?

There is a difference between cheap and inexpensive. Cheap usually mean quality related. Inexpensive mean lower manufacturing cost but the quality is comparable to an established standard.

If there is a radar system that can display the $200 manufacturing cost of an unidentified airborne intruder, as a Patriot battery commander, I would not respond once I see the dollar figures next to its altitude, speed, and heading values. 

Two hundred bucks are not going to get you much in terms of capabilities. If it is a recon drone, my lasers and IR strobes can do the job of interfering with its sensors. And at 200 bucks, that thing cannot carry any ordnance worth worrying about. So yes, I would love to have a radar system that can calculate the manufacturing cost of a perceived threat so I can avoid being mocked by Internet experts.

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## Aqsuperman

VPN 012 Lý Thái Tổ in Thailand for ASEAN exercise

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## TenLua

gambit said:


> It is a good start.
> If there is a radar system that can display the $200 manufacturing cost of an unidentified airborne intruder, as a Patriot battery commander, I would not respond once I see the dollar figures next to its altitude, speed, and heading values.



That is the whole basis of this conversation though. The point is, you DO NOT know what it is that you are seeing on your radar, and if you did, you do not know its value and purpose. As you stated previously, the value of whatever intel it is that the patriot missile is trying to protect exceed 3 million USD. You are forced to engage or let a 200 USD drone win the battle for me. One drone not enough? Fine, I'll send 1000 drone and I would STILL get more value out of my drones than your one missile. Shoot it down or give up your position and numbers. You're like the Brock Lesnar of the MMA world, if he can't win in the first 1 minute of the fight, he will never win. He is big and powerful but he expend too much energy; fighting a unsustainable fight. This relate to us because look at Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc...

It's like you're trading rooks for pawns and you expect to win a chess game. 

I'm not a expert, never claimed to be an expert, you, however, claimed you know everything there is to know about said missile system. What I did claim is that your tactics are cartoonish. Kinda like marvin the martian trying to blow up the world with your fancy lasers only to be outplayed by bugs bunny and his carrots. Or like how Wily E. Coyote with his state of the art ACME road runner missile.

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## Carlosa

*Trump courts Vietnam to ward off Beijing in South China Sea*
Bill Gertz
http://www.atimes.com/trump-courts-vietnam-ward-off-beijing-south-china-sea/

Once bitter enemies, the United States and Vietnam are increasing defense and intelligence cooperation in the face of growing Chinese maritime encroachment in the South China Sea.

US President Donald Trump has unveiled a program of using quiet diplomacy and behind-the-scenes discussions to block Chinese attempts to take over the South China Sea through a covert campaign of island-building and militarization. During his November 10-12 visit to Vietnam, *Trump agreed to sharply increase security cooperation, including stepped-up military support and, surprisingly, intelligence cooperation*.

The joint US-Vietnam statement outlines the new relationship. “The two leaders underscored that their two countries would deepen and gradually expand security and intelligence cooperation, enhancing information sharing and joint training on issues of mutual concern,” it said.

Cooperation on bolstering cyber security, a key concern of both countries – which have both been targets of Chinese hacking – will also be stepped up. The two will exchange delegations and information-sharing “in order to promote an open and secure cyberspace.” The Vietnamese also are seeking closer collaboration on aviation safety and security and counterterrorism.

A senior White House official traveling with the president said Chinese encroachment in the South China Sea and the militarization of newly created islands was on Mr Trump’s agenda for discussion with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang in Hanoi. “The very clear, consistent message from the president on the importance of maintaining freedom of navigation in the South China Sea will come through loud and clear,” the official said prior to the meetings.

The senior official added that Trump would also voice American concerns about the “militarization of features in the South China Sea.”

“The two leaders underscored the strategic importance to the international community of free and open access to the South China Sea, the importance of unimpeded lawful commerce, the need to respect freedom of navigation and over-flight, and other lawful uses of the sea,” the statement said.

Without mentioning China, it called on regional states to avoid “escalatory actions, the militarization of disputed features, and unlawful restrictions on freedom of the seas.” It also reaffirmed efforts to create a code of conduct for the South China Sea and for all claimants to clarify maritime claims with international law.

Quang told reporters he shared Mr Trump’s views on recent developments in the South China Sea and noted Vietnam’s policy of settling disputes through negotiations.

In a bid to counter the US program, Chinese supreme leader Xi Jinping followed Trump’s visit with a formal state visit of his own.

Xi met with Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam and afterward said party and state ties were solid, Xinhua reported. The Chinese leader also said Vietnam had agreed to “further deepen” bilateral ties.

“The two leaders underscored the strategic importance to the international community of free and open access to the South China Sea, the importance of unimpeded lawful commerce, the need to respect freedom of navigation and over-flight, and other lawful
uses of the sea”

Xi stated in public remarks that both countries should safeguard friendly cooperation but there was no announcement of the kind of defense and intelligence cooperation contained in the joint statement issued during the Trump summit.

Tensions were raised between China and Vietnam in April 2016 when China’s state-run China National Offshore Oil Corp. moved an oil-drilling platform to waters near the mouth of the Tonkin Gulf, near the Paracels. It was the third time since 2014 that the rig had been moved near Vietnamese waters, prompting Hanoi to demand China remove the platform.

A statement issued by Vietnam and China on November 13 said both countries vowed to avoid such actions in the future.

Trump, in his public comments in Vietnam, sought to play down the sea dispute. He emphasized plans for increased trade but made no mention of the growing Chinese militarization campaign in the sea.

That campaign has included building on the Paracels, which are claimed by Vietnam, China and others; and the Spratlys, which are claimed by the Philippines and China.

The US Navy has been conducting warship passages near the islands to challenge China’s claims that the islands are in its territorial waters.

Trump focused his comments on closing what he said is a US$32 billion trade imbalance between the US and Vietnam. He announced US$12 billion in bilateral trade deals.

The American president’s major agenda item for his 10-day Asia visit was seeking regional support for curbing North Korea’s nuclear program, and he received some backing from the Vietnamese. The joint statement said both leaders expressed “grave concern” about the North Korean threat.

The Trump approach toward Vietnam appears designed to use trade and increased defense cooperation with the Southeast Asian country in a bid to pressure China into backing off its expansive and aggressive claims to control most of the South China Sea.

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## TaiShang

*Commentary on President Xi's Southeast Asia Trip ③: Opening up new prospects for Sino-Vietnamese ties*

(CNTV) 11:01, November 16, 2017






Chinese President Xi Jinping, also general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, paid a state visit to Vietnam on Nov. 12-13.

Xi had talks with Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee, Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang and Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan, Chairwoman of the National Assembly of Vietnam respectively, working out the road map for the development of Sino-Vietnamese relations in the new period.

It's Xi's first overseas trip on the heels of the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China (CPC) held in October and also marks the mutual visit within a single year by the top leaders of the two parties and two countries, which are of great significance to the bilateral relationship.

During the visit, Xi and Vietnamese leaders had in-depth exchanges of views on *enhancing strategic communication between the two parties and two countries, stepping up exchanges of experience in the party and state governance, further synergizing the development strategies of the two countries, and deepening and broadening pragmatic cooperation and people-to-people exchanges*, as well as on regional and international issues of mutual concerns.

The leaders of both sides had reached a consensus on *deepening China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic cooperation partnership* and witnessed the signing of a series of cooperation agreements.

Public opinions say Xi's visit has advanced the spirit of being good neighbors, friends, camaraderie and partners of the two countries to consolidate traditional friendships.

It is expected to boost bilateral cooperation in many fields including the *implementation of China-proposed Belt and Road Initiative and Vietnam's "Two Corridors and One Economic Circle" plan,* and promote the two countries to learn from each other and seek common development.

The landmark visit of Xi is also expected to open up new prospects for Sino-Vietnamese relations, which can make greater contributions to regional peace, stability and prosperity.

_By Zhang Maorong, World Economy Institute of China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations; cartoon drawings by Liao Tingting_

(The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Panview or CCTV.com. )

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/1116/c90000-9293518.html


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## gambit

TenLua said:


> That is the whole basis of this conversation though. The point is, you DO NOT know what it is that you are seeing on your radar, and if you did, you do not know its value and purpose.


If you understand that then why do you wish to mock the defender ?



TenLua said:


> As you stated previously, the value of whatever intel it is that the patriot missile is trying to protect exceed 3 million USD. You are forced to engage or let a 200 USD drone win the battle for me.


How do I know that it is a $200 drone ?



TenLua said:


> One drone not enough? Fine, I'll send 1000 drone and I would STILL get more value out of my drones than your one missile.


Really ?

Here is where your supposedly understanding of the 'economics of war' will be tested.

One thousand UAV equals to how many UAV pilots ?

What are their ingress/egress vectors ?

Wait...You do not know what is a 'vector' in relation to aviation ?

In aviation, a 'vector' is technically identified as a heading *PLUS* an airspeed. But most of the time, heading is the most commonly used factor.

Now you want to send 1,000 UAVs over a target ? Let us be generous and say one UAV pilot can remotely control 3 UAVs. That still leave you with at least 300 UAV pilots for mission planning -- *JUST FOR ONE TARGET*.

Is the war restricted to only one ground target ?

What is/are the economics of your air force ? Bombers vs fighters ? How many UAVs ? Range ?

So now you have 1,000 UAVs controls by at least 300 UAV pilots. Are the UAVs over-the-horizon ( OTH ) ?

Wait...You do not know that UAV are OTH limited ?

Radio signals are line-of-sight ( LOS ) limited, meaning once the UAV is over the horizon, you lose radio signals contact.

Try this...

http://members.home.nl/7seas/radcalc.htm

I have posted the above link on this forum for yrs. It educated people more than they realize. Radar horizon is electrical horizon.

American UAVs are *SATELLITE* relayed, meaning their control signals are not confined to Earth horizon but are relayed thru satellites. It means in your hypothetical scenario, if your UAV forces do not have satellite support, you are limited to how far your UAVs can fly.

A ground target is very much like a funnel, meaning all airborne attackers will ingress at fairly reasonable predictable entry points, and if there are multiple attackers, not all of them can enter at the same time. Even a recon UAV must follow similar flight routes if it must gain important information.

So now you have 1,000 UAVs whose 300 pilots must coordinate their approaches -- just to take pictures ?

How valuable is this target ?

The reason why you so casually tossed out that 1,000 UAVs figure is because you are ignorant of the complexities of flight in general and of air traffic control in particular.

There is no need to address the rest of your post.

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## TenLua

> "How do I know that it is a $200 drone ?"



That is just it, you're not suppose to know.




> Here is where your supposedly understanding of the 'economics of war' will be tested.
> 
> One thousand UAV equals to how many UAV pilots ?
> 
> What are their ingress/egress vectors ?
> 
> Wait...You do not know what is a 'vector' in relation to aviation ?
> 
> In aviation, a 'vector' is technically identified as a heading *PLUS* an airspeed. But most of the time, heading is the most commonly used factor.
> 
> Now you want to send 1,000 UAVs over a target ? Let us be generous and say one UAV pilot can remotely control 3 UAVs. That still leave you with at least 300 UAV pilots for mission planning -- *JUST FOR ONE TARGET*.
> 
> Is the war restricted to only one ground target ?
> 
> What is/are the economics of your air force ? Bombers vs fighters ? How many UAVs ? Range ?
> 
> So now you have 1,000 UAVs controls by at least 300 UAV pilots. Are the UAVs over-the-horizon ( OTH ) ?
> 
> Wait...You do not know that UAV are OTH limited ?
> 
> Radio signals are line-of-sight ( LOS ) limited, meaning once the UAV is over the horizon, you lose radio signals contact.
> 
> Try this...
> 
> http://members.home.nl/7seas/radcalc.htm
> 
> I have posted the above link on this forum for yrs. It educated people more than they realize. Radar horizon is electrical horizon.
> 
> American UAVs are *SATELLITE* relayed, meaning their control signals are not confined to Earth horizon but are relayed thru satellites. It means in your hypothetical scenario, if your UAV forces do not have satellite support, you are limited to how far your UAVs can fly.



My UAV's are autonomous, GPS guided drones. All I have are drones, lots of drones, 3D printed drones. so much drones that if they flew at once they would block out the sun; that is my air force. For ground, I have 500k soldiers all of which are trained snipers. In addition to their assault rifle, they all have .308 sniper rifle. 250K of my men have shoulder launch ground to air missiles. 100K have anti tank missiles. My intel are all gathered by drones. I divide my men into platoons;each platoons have 2 commander who direct their platoon with 4k resolution birds eye view of the battlefield with a radius of 100 miles. Their equipment are carried by donkeys. Their rations consist of donkey meat and rice.

My supply line are made up of 1 million donkeys. They form a line from the moon to earth.

The Earth is flat so i do not know of this Earth curvature you speak of.



> A ground target is very much like a funnel, meaning all airborne attackers will ingress at fairly reasonable predictable entry points, and if there are multiple attackers, not all of them can enter at the same time. Even a recon UAV must follow similar flight routes if it must gain important information.
> 
> So now you have 1,000 UAVs whose 300 pilots must coordinate their approaches -- just to take pictures ?
> 
> How valuable is this target ?
> 
> The reason why you so casually tossed out that 1,000 UAVs figure is because you are ignorant of the complexities of flight in general and of air traffic control in particular.
> 
> There is no need to address the rest of your post.



My purpose is to have you throw your resources at me. I'm in the air so I am not confine to 2D movement, I can move left right back forth up and down so your entry point argument is irrelevant.

Your move Wily E. coyote, come at me with your trillion dollar military.


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## Aqsuperman

The use of modded ex US equipment in the VPA 

M113 with Soviet M1938 107mm mortar 











M548 tracked carrier with Soviet Zu 23 2 23mm auto cannon 











M548 with 105mm M101 howitzer. A similar set up is use on the Ural truck

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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> The use of modded ex US equipment in the VPA
> 
> M113 with Soviet M1938 107mm mortar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M548 tracked carrier with Soviet Zu 23 2 23mm auto cannon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M548 with 105mm M101 howitzer. A similar set up is use on the Ural truck


Jihaded m548

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## Carlosa

*Chinese Kidnapping of Vietnamese Fishermen in the South China Sea: a Primary Source Analysis | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative*
By Elena Bernini | September 14, 2017
AMTI Update
https://amti.csis.org/chinese-kidnapping-primary-source/
_The following is adapted from the author’s M.Phil. thesis at Oxford University. The full thesis can be accessed here on the Oxford University Research Archive._

_I was kept for 3 days and my family had to bring money, 140 million VND [approximately $6,200 USD], to Da Nang to ask some people for help there. We didn’t know what the money was for… They detained three boats and kept us in the same warehouse. They fed us like pigs, just with big chunk of plain rice… How could I go to the toilet? They gave me a bucket. Then I did it myself… We had to bend down. They didn’t let us to look at their faces, otherwise, we might be hit black and blue… Their boats reached 30-40 km/h, so much faster than my boat which was only 7 km/h… We were arrested in the sea. Then we were brought to another boat to the islands. We were blindfolded so as not to see how the islands looked like… 15 people were arrested and kept in a kind of warehouse. Then they let 12 fishermen to go home on their boats and kept the 3 other people and a boat. Because there were so many people that they couldn’t have enough food for them… They asked us to send the money via a bank account and we had no idea who would receive the money._

_– Kidnapped Vietnamese fisherman (Interview 2016)_

Three newly-discovered official Chinese documents from 2009 and interviews conducted on Ly Son island in 2016 confirm accounts that Chinese uniformed personnel, on Chinese government ships, repeatedly kidnapped Vietnamese fishermen for ransom near the disputed Paracel Islands from 2005 to 2012. The accounts include Chinese officials beating Vietnamese fishermen and stealing their catch and boats. The documents bear the seals of Zhong Sha Fishing Administration, which covers a subset of the Paracel Islands, and cite articles of China’s domestic fishery law. Vietnamese fishermen described Chinese men in uniform who kidnapped them, and a Chinese “embassy” in Da Nang that took ransom payments. A bank account in Hainan is listed for wire transfers. This suggests that the incidents were not standard criminality, but irregular attempts by Chinese officials to enforce Chinese maritime law and IUU (illegal, unregulated, or unreported) fishing regulations, while at the same time making a profit.

Previous media and scholarly articles have almost exclusively focused on cases of Chinese fishing militia ramming Vietnamese fishing vessels and stealing their boat equipment (for example GPS navigational devices, hulls, and fuel) and fish catch. Yet these unpublished Chinese documents and interviews portray what appears to be a Chinese state-sponsored kidnapping network. The kidnappings are intertwined with human rights abuses, including arrests and irregular detentions of Vietnamese fishermen in the Paracels and their subsequent maltreatment in inhumane and degrading conditions. They also include beatings that sometimes cause permanent disabilities, and detentions with little food in small and unbearably hot rooms without toilets or mosquito netting.

In the documents given to the fishermen by their Chinese captors, the name of the prosecuting body—which ostensibly enforces Chinese domestic law in the Paracels—is Zhong Sha Fishery Administration. The Zhong Sha Fishery seal is stamped in red ink on all three of the Chinese documents. The ransom money—which the fishermen must collect themselves—is transferred to a Chinese bank (Bank of China) in Sanya on Hainan island, which is reportedly home to numerous Chinese fishing militia units. The sum of money requested is usually eight times more than the average annual income of a Vietnamese fisherman.




Official Chinese document with ransom demand. Black boxes have been added to protect the fishing vessel number and name of the fisherman with his fingerprint.
The first document states that the amount of the fine is 70,000 yuan (around $10,429 dollars), which must be paid within 10 days or else the detained fisherman “needs to face other punishments”.



The second document, the “Decision regarding the Punishment ordered by the Fisheries administration,” includes the charges and admission of guilt. Black boxes have been added to obscure the fishing vessel number and the signature of the fisherman.
The second document provides information on the location of one such incident. It states that, “on February 21, 2009, at 13:50 p.m. [sic] in China, at this certain latitude [and longitude] 16°33’09″N 112°45’43.86″E, the plaintiff conducted blast fishing in P.R. China-controlled sea. They obtained around 250 kg fish in good quality. This act is despicable and troublesome, and it is a serious violation against “China’s Fishing Law” clause number 8 and the fourth clause of the ‘Temporary Regulation for Foreigners and Foreign Freight, Fishing Businesses in China Sea’”. It also states that the address of the prosecuting body is “China, Hainan Province, Hai-kou City, Tai-hua Road, Number 9”.
In this instance, the family of the apprehended Vietnamese fisherman received a translation of Document 1. A major omission in the translation is that the Chinese Coast Guard or maritime militia arrested the fisherman based on his engaging in blast fishing. While blast fishing is indeed a destructive environmental practice, Chinese officials in this case may have used the environmental issue as a pretense for arrest without having informed the fisherman of the alleged crime, therefore not giving him the opportunity to plead innocent.

The incident occurred in the territorial sea around the Paracels that both China and Vietnam claim, but which China administers. Any future arbitration, according to Greg Poling of AMTI, would likely find that the territorial seas around all the Paracels are traditional fishing grounds for both Chinese and Vietnamese fishermen.

Documents 1 and 2 are both dated February 21, 2009, indicating that the authorities received a full confession on the same day as the alleged violation. Apparently, Chinese officials detained the fishing boat and made the fisherman confess immediately. According to interviews conducted with the fishermen, no translator was made available—despite Document 2 saying that the fisherman has the right to appeal to a high-level court “within 60 days of receiving this document,” or to the “People’s Court” “within 30 days”.

The third document is a cash receipt for the 70,000 yuan fine, dated less than two weeks after Documents 1 and 2. The receipt bears the same seal of the Zhong Sha Fishing Administration as the previous two documents. At the bottom right of the receipt is a stamp and the signature of the person who received the cash.
According to my interviews with fishermen on Ly Son Island, the Vietnamese government tries to keep such incidents quiet by sending local authorities to the houses of fishermen and dissuading them from international legal remedies and news coverage. Officials insist on night burials to discourage public funerals that might attract attention or galvanize protests which might offend China, thereby safeguarding Sino-Vietnamese relations. According to one source, Vietnam’s Coast Guard collects data on incidents at sea but does not publish it. Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Coast Guard did not respond to requests for comment.

When incidents at sea happen, the Vietnamese government mostly deploys _pro forma_diplomatic protests. Yet its efforts are too little to have much effect. Once detained by Chinese state-sponsored forces, Vietnamese fishermen see little Vietnamese government support, whether in the form of rigorous rescue operations, diplomacy, hostage negotiation, or sufficient financial support to cover ransom demands. Vietnamese fishermen end up with dual grievances, against the Chinese government that abuses them at sea, and the Vietnamese government that fails them at home.

_Header photo courtesy of the Flickr stream of Lucas Jans._

Elena Bernini obtained an M.Phil. in International Development in 2017 from Oxford University. She is the founder of Oxford Omnia, a human rights organization that focuses on fishermen’s human rights.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> *Chinese Kidnapping of Vietnamese Fishermen in the South China Sea: a Primary Source Analysis | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative*
> By Elena Bernini | September 14, 2017
> AMTI Update
> https://amti.csis.org/chinese-kidnapping-primary-source/
> _The following is adapted from the author’s M.Phil. thesis at Oxford University. The full thesis can be accessed here on the Oxford University Research Archive._
> 
> _I was kept for 3 days and my family had to bring money, 140 million VND [approximately $6,200 USD], to Da Nang to ask some people for help there. We didn’t know what the money was for… They detained three boats and kept us in the same warehouse. They fed us like pigs, just with big chunk of plain rice… How could I go to the toilet? They gave me a bucket. Then I did it myself… We had to bend down. They didn’t let us to look at their faces, otherwise, we might be hit black and blue… Their boats reached 30-40 km/h, so much faster than my boat which was only 7 km/h… We were arrested in the sea. Then we were brought to another boat to the islands. We were blindfolded so as not to see how the islands looked like… 15 people were arrested and kept in a kind of warehouse. Then they let 12 fishermen to go home on their boats and kept the 3 other people and a boat. Because there were so many people that they couldn’t have enough food for them… They asked us to send the money via a bank account and we had no idea who would receive the money._
> 
> _– Kidnapped Vietnamese fisherman (Interview 2016)_
> 
> Three newly-discovered official Chinese documents from 2009 and interviews conducted on Ly Son island in 2016 confirm accounts that Chinese uniformed personnel, on Chinese government ships, repeatedly kidnapped Vietnamese fishermen for ransom near the disputed Paracel Islands from 2005 to 2012. The accounts include Chinese officials beating Vietnamese fishermen and stealing their catch and boats. The documents bear the seals of Zhong Sha Fishing Administration, which covers a subset of the Paracel Islands, and cite articles of China’s domestic fishery law. Vietnamese fishermen described Chinese men in uniform who kidnapped them, and a Chinese “embassy” in Da Nang that took ransom payments. A bank account in Hainan is listed for wire transfers. This suggests that the incidents were not standard criminality, but irregular attempts by Chinese officials to enforce Chinese maritime law and IUU (illegal, unregulated, or unreported) fishing regulations, while at the same time making a profit.
> 
> Previous media and scholarly articles have almost exclusively focused on cases of Chinese fishing militia ramming Vietnamese fishing vessels and stealing their boat equipment (for example GPS navigational devices, hulls, and fuel) and fish catch. Yet these unpublished Chinese documents and interviews portray what appears to be a Chinese state-sponsored kidnapping network. The kidnappings are intertwined with human rights abuses, including arrests and irregular detentions of Vietnamese fishermen in the Paracels and their subsequent maltreatment in inhumane and degrading conditions. They also include beatings that sometimes cause permanent disabilities, and detentions with little food in small and unbearably hot rooms without toilets or mosquito netting.
> 
> In the documents given to the fishermen by their Chinese captors, the name of the prosecuting body—which ostensibly enforces Chinese domestic law in the Paracels—is Zhong Sha Fishery Administration. The Zhong Sha Fishery seal is stamped in red ink on all three of the Chinese documents. The ransom money—which the fishermen must collect themselves—is transferred to a Chinese bank (Bank of China) in Sanya on Hainan island, which is reportedly home to numerous Chinese fishing militia units. The sum of money requested is usually eight times more than the average annual income of a Vietnamese fisherman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Official Chinese document with ransom demand. Black boxes have been added to protect the fishing vessel number and name of the fisherman with his fingerprint.
> The first document states that the amount of the fine is 70,000 yuan (around $10,429 dollars), which must be paid within 10 days or else the detained fisherman “needs to face other punishments”.
> 
> 
> 
> The second document, the “Decision regarding the Punishment ordered by the Fisheries administration,” includes the charges and admission of guilt. Black boxes have been added to obscure the fishing vessel number and the signature of the fisherman.
> The second document provides information on the location of one such incident. It states that, “on February 21, 2009, at 13:50 p.m. [sic] in China, at this certain latitude [and longitude] 16°33’09″N 112°45’43.86″E, the plaintiff conducted blast fishing in P.R. China-controlled sea. They obtained around 250 kg fish in good quality. This act is despicable and troublesome, and it is a serious violation against “China’s Fishing Law” clause number 8 and the fourth clause of the ‘Temporary Regulation for Foreigners and Foreign Freight, Fishing Businesses in China Sea’”. It also states that the address of the prosecuting body is “China, Hainan Province, Hai-kou City, Tai-hua Road, Number 9”.
> In this instance, the family of the apprehended Vietnamese fisherman received a translation of Document 1. A major omission in the translation is that the Chinese Coast Guard or maritime militia arrested the fisherman based on his engaging in blast fishing. While blast fishing is indeed a destructive environmental practice, Chinese officials in this case may have used the environmental issue as a pretense for arrest without having informed the fisherman of the alleged crime, therefore not giving him the opportunity to plead innocent.
> 
> The incident occurred in the territorial sea around the Paracels that both China and Vietnam claim, but which China administers. Any future arbitration, according to Greg Poling of AMTI, would likely find that the territorial seas around all the Paracels are traditional fishing grounds for both Chinese and Vietnamese fishermen.
> 
> Documents 1 and 2 are both dated February 21, 2009, indicating that the authorities received a full confession on the same day as the alleged violation. Apparently, Chinese officials detained the fishing boat and made the fisherman confess immediately. According to interviews conducted with the fishermen, no translator was made available—despite Document 2 saying that the fisherman has the right to appeal to a high-level court “within 60 days of receiving this document,” or to the “People’s Court” “within 30 days”.
> 
> The third document is a cash receipt for the 70,000 yuan fine, dated less than two weeks after Documents 1 and 2. The receipt bears the same seal of the Zhong Sha Fishing Administration as the previous two documents. At the bottom right of the receipt is a stamp and the signature of the person who received the cash.
> According to my interviews with fishermen on Ly Son Island, the Vietnamese government tries to keep such incidents quiet by sending local authorities to the houses of fishermen and dissuading them from international legal remedies and news coverage. Officials insist on night burials to discourage public funerals that might attract attention or galvanize protests which might offend China, thereby safeguarding Sino-Vietnamese relations. According to one source, Vietnam’s Coast Guard collects data on incidents at sea but does not publish it. Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Coast Guard did not respond to requests for comment.
> 
> When incidents at sea happen, the Vietnamese government mostly deploys _pro forma_diplomatic protests. Yet its efforts are too little to have much effect. Once detained by Chinese state-sponsored forces, Vietnamese fishermen see little Vietnamese government support, whether in the form of rigorous rescue operations, diplomacy, hostage negotiation, or sufficient financial support to cover ransom demands. Vietnamese fishermen end up with dual grievances, against the Chinese government that abuses them at sea, and the Vietnamese government that fails them at home.
> 
> _Header photo courtesy of the Flickr stream of Lucas Jans._
> 
> Elena Bernini obtained an M.Phil. in International Development in 2017 from Oxford University. She is the founder of Oxford Omnia, a human rights organization that focuses on fishermen’s human rights.



And many Vietnamese here complains about our burning down the boats policy, albeit we are treating the fisherman we caught very humanly as possible, compared it with shooting first policy of Pinoy and Myanmar and this kind of China "hospitality".

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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> And many Vietnamese here complains about our burning down the boats policy, albeit we are treating the fisherman we caught very humanly as possible, compared it with shooting first policy of Pinoy and Myanmar and this kind of China "hospitality".



Humanly as in this case right?

*Indonesian Navy Opens Fire on Vietnamese Fishermen*

Indonesian forces capture a Vietnamese fishing vessel near the Natuna Islands, July 21 (Indonesian Navy)
By *MarEx *2017-07-24 17:05:30

Vietnamese authorities allege that the Indonesian navy opened fire on a Vietnamese fishing vessel on Saturday evening, wounding four of the six crewmembers on board. Two of the men reportedly required medical treatment for serious injuries.

The SAR agency of Vietnam’s Binh Dinh province said that the incident occurred 130 nm southeast of Con Dao islands, not far from the Indonesian EEZ boundary and the newly renamed "North Natuna Sea." Vietnam and Indonesia dispute the location of the boundary line.

The Indonesian government would not confirm the skirmish, but it would not be unusual in the region. Vietnamese, Malaysian and Chinese fishing boats have often entered Indonesian-claimed waters over the past few years, occasionally leading to confrontations between Indonesian security forces, trawlers and coast guard escorts from other nations.

The most serious recent incident occured last October, when Indonesian forces opened fire on two Vietnamese fishing boats, killing one crewmember and injuring two more. The incident led Vietnam to file a formal diplomatic protest. For 2016 as a whole, Indonesian forces captured about 100 Vietnamese fishing vessels and over 1,100 crew. About 800 crewmembers were deported within the same year, but not all returned with their boats: under the leadership of Minister Susi Pujiastuti, the Indonesian Ministry of Maritime Affairs has taken to blowing up or burning illegal fishing vessels as a means of sending a message to would-be trespassers. The policy has made Pujiastuti the nation's most popular minister, and she claims that this visible form of deterrence has led to a 90 percent reduction in illegal fishing in Indonesian waters.

Malaysia has a similar problem with foreign fishing fleets. All told, the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency has arrested 70 Vietnamese fishermen since April, and the agency reports about 22 interdictions involving Vietnamese boats off the island of Sarawak since the start of the year.


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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Humanly as in this case right?
> 
> *Indonesian Navy Opens Fire on Vietnamese Fishermen*
> 
> Indonesian forces capture a Vietnamese fishing vessel near the Natuna Islands, July 21 (Indonesian Navy)
> By *MarEx *2017-07-24 17:05:30
> 
> Vietnamese authorities allege that the Indonesian navy opened fire on a Vietnamese fishing vessel on Saturday evening, wounding four of the six crewmembers on board. Two of the men reportedly required medical treatment for serious injuries.
> 
> The SAR agency of Vietnam’s Binh Dinh province said that the incident occurred 130 nm southeast of Con Dao islands, not far from the Indonesian EEZ boundary and the newly renamed "North Natuna Sea." Vietnam and Indonesia dispute the location of the boundary line.
> 
> The Indonesian government would not confirm the skirmish, but it would not be unusual in the region. Vietnamese, Malaysian and Chinese fishing boats have often entered Indonesian-claimed waters over the past few years, occasionally leading to confrontations between Indonesian security forces, trawlers and coast guard escorts from other nations.
> 
> The most serious recent incident occured last October, when Indonesian forces opened fire on two Vietnamese fishing boats, killing one crewmember and injuring two more. The incident led Vietnam to file a formal diplomatic protest. For 2016 as a whole, Indonesian forces captured about 100 Vietnamese fishing vessels and over 1,100 crew. About 800 crewmembers were deported within the same year, but not all returned with their boats: under the leadership of Minister Susi Pujiastuti, the Indonesian Ministry of Maritime Affairs has taken to blowing up or burning illegal fishing vessels as a means of sending a message to would-be trespassers. The policy has made Pujiastuti the nation's most popular minister, and she claims that this visible form of deterrence has led to a 90 percent reduction in illegal fishing in Indonesian waters.
> 
> Malaysia has a similar problem with foreign fishing fleets. All told, the Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency has arrested 70 Vietnamese fishermen since April, and the agency reports about 22 interdictions involving Vietnamese boats off the island of Sarawak since the start of the year.



Nah single incidents, we capture lot of Vietnamese


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## Carlosa

madokafc said:


> Nah single incidents, we capture lot of Vietnamese



Yeah sure, kill a few here and there is not a big deal. i'm sure they feel better now

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## TenLua

madokafc said:


> Nah single incidents, we capture lot of Vietnamese



lol keep ankle biting. When they bite back and conquer the historical pile of shit that is indonesia don't cry foul.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> lol keep ankle biting. When they bite back and conquer the historical pile of shit that is indonesia don't cry foul.


Autsch! I don’t think the Indonesians deserve such bashing. True there are Incidents with some ending with deathly outcome but they are overall more human than the Chinese and the likes. Don’t forget the indonesia will soon as we speak become VN major energy supplier with coal and gas. The latter is supplied by a pipeline system to Vietnamese controlled seas and mainland.

Strategically the US, the Japanese yes the Indo with their military buildup play a cornerstone to stop the Chinese advance in the southern part of the sea. All that will give us time to rebuild the economy, for our military buildup.

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## frequency

So China finally bends over to Uncle Trump. LOL



madokafc said:


> And many Vietnamese here complains about our burning down the boats policy, albeit we are treating the fisherman we caught very humanly as possible, compared it with shooting first policy of Pinoy and Myanmar and this kind of China "hospitality".



You can burn their fishermen boats. But soon, they will burn your country. You wont be here on Earth to witness it.


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## Viet

Cool images of Vietnam coast guard vessel 8020 visiting Honululu (Hawaii)













Visiting a Indonesian warship 
sis mado 









Military field kitchen 
Can vietnamese food such as pho be cooked?

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## Nilgiri

http://mashable.com/2016/02/05/another-vietnam-photography/#b6Dw5sqBlGqj

1965-1975

Another Vietnam

Unseen images of the war from the winning side

by Alex Q. Arbuckle



EastWind said:


> Can vietnamese food such as pho be cooked?



Should be easily done, given most military portable kitchen (field unit) I have seen world over have dedicated soup capability. Here is an East German one back in the day:






There are even MRE options in the west for pho now:

amazon.ca/Backpackers-Pantry-Beef-Pho-Servings/dp/B00SISWJJQ

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## Viet

The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
November 10, 2017
*Remarks by President Trump at APEC CEO Summit | Da Nang, Vietnam*
Ariyana Da Nang Exhibition Center

Da Nang, Vietnam

1:19 P.M. ICT

PRESIDENT TRUMP: What an honor it is to be here in Vietnam -- in the very heart of the Indo-Pacific -- to address the people and business leaders of this region.

This has already been a remarkable week for the United States in this wonderful part of the world. Starting from Hawaii, Melania and I traveled to Japan, South Korea, and China, and now to Vietnam, to be here with all of you today.

Before we begin, I want to address all those affected by Typhoon Damrey. Americans are praying for you and for your recovery in the months ahead. Our hearts are united with the Vietnamese people suffering in the aftermath of this terrible storm.

This trip comes at an exciting time for America. A new optimism has swept all across our country. Economic growth has reached 3.2 percent, and going higher. Unemployment is at its lowest level in 17 years. The stock market is at an all-time high. And the whole world is lifted by America’s renewal.

Everywhere I’ve traveled on this journey, I’ve had the pleasure of sharing the good news from America. But even more, I've had the honor of sharing our vision for a free and open Indo-Pacific -- a place where sovereign and independent nations, with diverse cultures and many different dreams, can all prosper side-by-side, and thrive in freedom and in peace.

I am so thrilled to be here today at APEC, because this organization was founded to help achieve that very purpose. America stands as a proud member of the community of nations who make a home on the Pacific. We have been an active partner in this region since we first won independence ourselves.

In 1784, the first American ship sailed to China from the newly independent United States. It went loaded with goods to sell in Asia, and it came back full of porcelain and tea. Our first president, George Washington himself, owned a set of tableware from that ship.

In 1804, Thomas Jefferson sent the explorers, Lewis and Clark, on an expedition to our Pacific Coast. They were the first of the millions of Americans who ventured west to live out America’s manifest destiny across our vast continent.

In 1817, our Congress approved the first full-time Pacific development [deployment] of an American warship. That initial naval presence soon grew into a squadron, and then a fleet, to guarantee freedom of navigation for the growing number of ships, braving the high seas to reach markets in the Philippines, Singapore, and in India.

In 1818, we began our relationship with the Kingdom of Thailand, and 15 years later our two countries signed a treaty of friendship and commerce -- our first with an Asian nation.

In the next century, when imperialist powers threatened this region, the United States pushed back at great cost to ourselves. We understood that security and prosperity depended on it.

We have been friends, partners, and allies in the Indo-Pacific for a long, long time, and we will be friends, partners, and allies for a long time to come.

As old friends in the region, no one has been more delighted than America to witness, to help, and to share in the extraordinary progress you have made over the last half-century.

What the countries and economies represented here today have built in this part of the world is nothing short of miraculous. The story of this region in recent decades is the story of what is possible when people take ownership of their future.

Few would have imagined just a generation ago that leaders of these nations would come together here in Da Nang to deepen our friendships, expand our partnerships, and celebrate the amazing achievements of our people.

This city was once home to an American military base, in a country where many Americans and Vietnamese lost their lives in a very bloody war.

Today, we are no longer enemies; we are friends. And this port city is bustling with ships from around the world. Engineering marvels, like the Dragon Bridge, welcome the millions who come to visit Da Nang’s stunning beaches, shining lights, and ancient charms.

In the early 1990s, nearly half of Vietnam survived on just a few dollars a day, and one in four did not have any electricity. Today, an opening Vietnamese economy is one of the fastest-growing economies on Earth. It has already increased more than 30 times over, and the Vietnamese students rank among the best students in the world. (Applause.) And that is very impressive.

This is the same story of incredible transformation that we have seen across the region. Indonesians for decades have been building domestic and democratic institutions to govern their vast chain of more than 13,000 islands. Since the 1990s, Indonesia’s people have lifted themselves from poverty to become one of the fastest-growing nations of the G20. Today, it is the third-largest democracy on Earth.

The Philippines has emerged as a proud nation of strong and devout families. For 11 consecutive years, the World Economic Forum has ranked the Philippines first among Asian countries in closing the gender gap and embracing women leaders in business and in politics. (Applause.)

Kingdom of Thailand has become an upper middle-income country in less than a generation. Its majestic capital of Bangkok is now the most visited city on Earth. And that is very impressive. Not too many people here are from Thailand. (Applause.)

Malaysia has rapidly developed through recent decades, and it is now ranked as one of the best places in the world to do business.

In Singapore, citizens born to parents who survived on $500 dollars a day [year] are now among the highest earners in the world -- a transformation made possible by the vision of Lee Kwan Yew’s vision of honest governance and the rule of law. (Applause.) And his great son is now doing an amazing job.

As I recently observed in South Korea, the people of that Republic took a poor country ravaged by war, and in just a few decades turned it into one of the wealthiest democracies on Earth. Today, South Koreans enjoy higher incomes than the citizens of many European Union countries. It was great spending time with President Moon.

Everyone knows of China’s impressive achievements over the past several decades. During this period -- and it was a period of great market reforms -- large parts of China experienced rapid economic growth, jobs boomed, and more than 800 million citizens rose out of poverty. I just left China this morning and had a really productive meeting and a wonderful time with our gracious host, President Xi.

And, as I saw on my first stop of this trip, in Japan we see a dynamic democracy in a land of industrial, technological, and cultural wonders. In fewer than 60 years, that island nation has produced 24 Nobel Prize winners for achievements in physics, chemistry, medicine, literature, and the promotion of peace. (Applause.) President Abe and I agree on so much.

In the broader region, countries outside of APEC are also making great strides in this new chapter for the Indo-Pacific.

India is celebrating the 70th anniversary of its independence. It is a sovereign democracy, as well as -- think of this -- over 1 billion people. It's the largest democracy in the world. (Applause.) Since India opened its economy, it has achieved astounding growth and a new world of opportunity for its expanding middle class. And Prime Minister Modi has been working to bring that vast country, and all of its people, together as one. And he is working at it very, very successfully, indeed.

As we can see, in more and more places throughout this region, citizens of sovereign and independent nations have taken greater control of their destinies and unlocked the potential of their people.

They’ve pursued visions of justice and accountability, promoted private property and the rule of law, and embraced systems that value hard work and individual enterprise.

They built businesses, they built cities, they built entire countries from the ground up. Many of you in this room have taken part in these great, uplifting national projects of building. They have been your projects from inception to completion, from dreams to reality.

With your help, this entire region has emerged -- and it is still emerging -- as a beautiful constellation of nations, each its own bright star, satellites to none -- and each one, a people, a culture, a way of life, and a home.

Those of you who have lived through these transformations understand better than anyone the value of what you have achieved. You also understand that your home is your legacy, and you must always protect it.

In the process of your economic development, you’ve sought commerce and trade with other nations, and forged partnerships based on mutual respect and directed toward mutual gain.

Today, I am here to offer a renewed partnership with America to work together to strengthen the bonds of friendship and commerce between all of the nations of the Indo-Pacific, and together, to promote our prosperity and security.

At the core of this partnership, we seek robust trade relationships rooted in the principles of fairness and reciprocity. When the United States enters into a trading relationship with other countries or other peoples, we will, from now on, expect that our partners will faithfully follow the rules just like we do. We expect that markets will be open to an equal degree on both sides, and that private industry, not government planners, will direct investment.

Unfortunately, for too long and in too many places, the opposite has happened. For many years, the United States systematically opened our economy with few conditions. We lowered or ended tariffs, reduced trade barriers, and allowed foreign goods to flow freely into our country.

But while we lowered market barriers, other countries didn’t open their markets to us.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: (Inaudible.)

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Funny. They must have been one of the beneficiaries. (Applause.) What country do you come from, sir?

Countries were embraced by the World Trade Organization, even if they did not abide by its stated principles. Simply put, we have not been treated fairly by the World Trade Organization. Organizations like the WTO can only function properly when all members follow the rules and respect the sovereign rights of every member. We cannot achieve open markets if we do not ensure fair market access. In the end, unfair trade undermines us all.

The United States promoted private enterprise, innovation, and industry. Other countries used government-run industrial planning and state-owned enterprises.

We adhered to WTO principles on protecting intellectual property and ensuring fair and equal market access. They engaged in product dumping, subsidized goods, currency manipulation, and predatory industrial policies.

They ignored the rules to gain advantage over those who followed the rules, causing enormous distortions in commerce and threatening the foundations of international trade itself.

Such practices, along with our collective failure to respond to them, hurt many people in our country and also in other countries. Jobs, factories, and industries were stripped out of the United States and out of many countries in addition. And many opportunities for mutually beneficial investments were lost because people could not trust the system.

We can no longer tolerate these chronic trade abuses, and we will not tolerate them. Despite years of broken promises, we were told that someday soon everyone would behave fairly and responsibly. People in America and throughout the Indo-Pacific region have waited for that day to come. But it never has, and that is why I am here today -- to speak frankly about our challenges and work toward a brighter future for all of us.

I recently had an excellent trip to China, where I spoke openly and directly with President Xi about China’s unfair trade practices and the enormous trade deficits they have produced with the United States. I expressed our strong desire to work with China to achieve a trading relationship that is conducted on a truly fair and equal basis.

The current trade imbalance is not acceptable. I do not blame China or any other country, of which there are many, for taking advantage of the United States on trade. If their representatives are able to get away with it, they are just doing their jobs. I wish previous administrations in my country saw what was happening and did something about it. They did not, but I will.

From this day forward, we will compete on a fair and equal basis. We are not going to let the United States be taken advantage of anymore. I am always going to put America first the same way that I expect all of you in this room to put your countries first. (Applause.)

The United States is prepared to work with each of the leaders in this room today to achieve mutually beneficial commerce that is in the interest of both your countries and mine. That is the message I am here to deliver.

I will make bilateral trade agreements with any Indo-Pacific nation that wants to be our partner and that will abide by the principles of fair and reciprocal trade. What we will no longer do is enter into large agreements that tie our hands, surrender our sovereignty, and make meaningful enforcement practically impossible.

Instead, we will deal on a basis of mutual respect and mutual benefit. We will respect your independence and your sovereignty. We want you to be strong, prosperous, and self-reliant, rooted in your history, and branching out toward the future. That is how we will thrive and grow together, in partnerships of real and lasting value.

But for this -- and I call it the Indo-Pacific dream -- if it's going to be realized, we must ensure that all play by the rules, which they do not right now. Those who do will be our closest economic partners. Those who do not can be certain that the United States will no longer turn a blind eye to violations, cheating, or economic aggression. Those days are over.

We will no longer tolerate the audacious theft of intellectual property. We will confront the destructive practices of forcing businesses to surrender their technology to the state, and forcing them into joint ventures in exchange for market access.

We will address the massive subsidizing of industries through colossal state-owned enterprises that put private competitors out of business -- happening all the time.

We will not remain silent as American companies are targeted by state-affiliated actors for economic gain, whether through cyberattacks, corporate espionage, or other anti-competitive practices. We will encourage all nations to speak out loudly when the principles of fairness and reciprocity are violated.

We know it is in America’s interests to have partners throughout this region that are thriving, prosperous, and dependent on no one. We will not make decisions for the purpose of power or patronage. We will never ask our partners to surrender their sovereignty, privacy, and intellectual property, or to limit contracts to state-owned suppliers.

We will find opportunities for our private sector to work with yours and to create jobs and wealth for us all. We seek strong partners, not weak partners. We seek strong neighbors, not weak neighbors. Above all, we seek friendship, and we don’t dream of domination.

For this reason, we are also refocusing our existing development efforts. We are calling on the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank to direct their efforts toward high-quality infrastructure investment that promotes economic growth.

The United States will also do its part. We are also committed to reforming our development finance institutions so that they better incentivize private sector investment in your economies, and provide strong alternatives to state-directed initiatives that come with many strings attached.

The United States has been reminded time and time again in recent years that economic security is not merely related to national security. Economic security is national security. It is vital -- (applause) -- to our national strength.

We also know that we will not have lasting prosperity if we do not confront grave threats to security, sovereignty, and stability facing our world today.

Earlier this week, I addressed the National Assembly in Seoul, South Korea and urged every responsible nation to stand united in declaring that every single step the North Korean regime takes toward more weapons is a step it takes into greater and greater danger. The future of this region and its beautiful people must not be held hostage to a dictator’s twisted fantasies of violent conquest and nuclear blackmail.

In addition, we must uphold principles that have benefitted all of us, like respect for the rule of law -- (applause) -- individual rights, and freedom of navigation and overflight, including open shipping lanes. Three principles and these principles -- (applause) -- create stability and build trust, security, and prosperity among like-minded nations.

We must also deal decisively with other threats to our security and the future of our children, such as criminal cartels, human smuggling, drugs, corruption, cybercrime, and territorial expansion. As I have said many times before: All civilized people must come together to drive out terrorists and extremists from our societies, stripping them of funding, territory, and ideological support. We must stop radical Islamic terrorism.

So let us work together for a peaceful, prosperous, and free Indo-Pacific. I am confident that, together, every problem we have spoken about today can be solved and every challenge we face can be overcome.

If we succeed in this effort, if we seize the opportunities before us and ground our partnerships firmly in the interests of our own people, then together we will achieve everything we dream for our nations and for our children.

We will be blessed with a world of strong, sovereign, and independent nations, thriving in peace and commerce with others. They will be places where we can build our homes and where families, businesses, and people can flourish and grow.

If we do this, will we look at the globe half a century from now, and we will marvel at the beautiful constellation of nations -- each different, each unique, and each shining brightly and proudly throughout this region of the world. And just as when we look at the stars in the night sky, the distance of time will make most of the challenges we have and that we spoke of today seem very, very small.

What will not seem small -- what is not small -- will be the big choices that all of our nations will have to make to keep their stars glowing very, very brightly.

In America, like every nation that has won and defended its sovereignty, we understand that we have nothing so precious as our birthright, our treasured independence, and our freedom.

That knowledge has guided us throughout American history. It has inspired us to sacrifice and innovate. And it is why today, hundreds of years after our victory in the American Revolution, we still remember the words of an American founder and our second President of the United States, John Adams. As an old man, just before his death, this great patriot was asked to offer his thoughts on the 50th anniversary of glorious American freedom. He replied with the words: independence forever.

It's a sentiment that burns in the heart of every patriot and every nation. Our hosts here in Vietnam have known this sentiment not just for 200 years, but for nearly 2,000 years. (Applause.) It was around 40 AD when two Vietnamese sisters, the Trung Sisters, first awakened the spirit of the people of this land. It was then that, for the first time, the people of Vietnam stood for your independence and your pride.

Today, the patriots and heroes -- (applause) -- of our histories hold the answers to the great questions of our future and our time. They remind us of who we are and what we are called to do.

Together, we have it in our power to lift our people and our world to new heights -- heights that have never been attained,

So let us choose a future of patriotism, prosperity, and pride. Let us choose wealth and freedom over poverty and servitude. Let us choose a free and open Indo-Pacific.

Finally, let us never forget the world has many places -- (applause) -- many dreams, and many roads. But in all of the world, there is no place like home.

so, for family, for country, for freedom, for history, and for the glory of God, protect your home, defend your home, and love your home today and for all time. (Applause.)

Thank you. God Bless You. God Bless the Pacific region. And God Bless the United States of America. Thank you very much. Thank you. (Applause.)

END

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## striver44

frequency said:


> So China finally bends over to Uncle Trump. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> You can burn their fishermen boats. But soon, they will burn your country. You wont be here on Earth to witness it.


Just try......we're waiting


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## katarabhumi

TenLua said:


> lol keep ankle biting. When they bite back and conquer the historical pile of shit that is indonesia don't cry foul.





frequency said:


> You can burn their fishermen boats. But soon, they will burn your country. You wont be here on Earth to witness it.



Oooh soo scawree... I'm tremblinggg... 

.


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## TenLua

katarabhumi said:


> Oooh soo scawree... I'm tremblinggg...
> 
> .



Not hard to fold paper men.


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## Viet

22y Nguyễn Thị Thu Hồng

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## Viet

155mm artillery

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## Reashot Xigwin

TenLua said:


> Not hard to fold paper men.


We spend more on our dogs than the VPA spends on their grunts... So what that make the VPA then?

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## Nike

TenLua said:


> lol keep ankle biting. When they bite back and conquer the historical pile of shit that is indonesia don't cry foul.



Cry foul? Like you had energy to swim far enough to the south

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> We spend more on our dogs than the VPA spends on their grunts... So what that make the VPA then?


that means your spendings have surpassed that of rich country as Germany. they spend much less on dogs. congrats.

maybe we all stop trolling and post some nice stories of cooperations between VN and ID.

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## TenLua

Reashot Xigwin said:


> We spend more on our dogs than the VPA spends on their grunts... So what that make the VPA then?



That makes the VPA smart.


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## TenLua

madokafc said:


> Cry foul? Like you had energy to swim far enough to the south



As a matter of fact, I do. Problem?

You’re here because you envy the VPA so you hate Vietnam. That makes you a hatin azz b**ch. Isnt there a indonesian military forum somewhere? Is it because there is nothing about the indonesian military worth mentioning? It has to be. Why else would you rather discuss Vietnamese military.


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## xiao qi

TenLua said:


> As a matter of fact, I do. Problem?
> 
> You’re here because you envy the VPA so you hate Vietnam. That makes you a hatin azz b**ch. Isnt there a indonesian military forum somewhere? Is it because there is nothing about the indonesian military worth mentioning? It has to be. Why else would you rather discuss Vietnamese military.


Keep calm, bro, this is forum to discuss not to become a battlefield

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## Bhayangkara

xiao qi said:


> Keep calm, bro, this is forum to discuss not to become a battlefield


Perhaps, it is just him who thought this forum as a battlefield 

I think some of Vietnam members here should to be more relaxed and no need to being serious in responding such differences. Besides that will not bring any good, it would just make your own thread becomes more chaotic and getting more off topic.

Honestly, I've seen many of a good things here, especially its related to the development of Vietnam's military capabilities, which I think it is worth to be discussed than anything else.

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## Viet

Welcome the President of Poland and his Spouse to Vietnam

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## Viet

Industry
*South Korea’s Huneed Technologies seeks investment in Vietnam*
*Jon Grevatt* - Jane's Defence Weekly
30 November 2017

South Korean defence firm Huneed Technologies, which is partly owned by Boeing, is looking to invest in establishing a facility in Vietnam, the state-run Vietnam News Agency (VNA) reported on 28 November.

According to the VNA report, Huneed Technologies wants to invest in a high-technology industry park in Saigon, near to Ho Chi Minh City (HCMC). VNA said the government of HCMC “will create optimal conditions to welcome Huneed Technologies … to its Saigon Hi-Tech Park”.

Following a meeting on 27 November with Eugene Kim, chairman of Huneed Technologies, a HCMC official was quoted by VNA as saying the city “will offer the group its abundant labour resources, developed traffic infrastructure facilities, and investment incentives”.


...—-...
Huneed provides electrical panels and components for F15 fighter jet. Not really top secret, so why not produce in VN. We can churn out products much cheaper.

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## TenLua

Bhayangkara said:


> Perhaps, it is just him who thought this forum as a battlefield
> 
> I think some of Vietnam members here should to be more relaxed and no need to being serious in responding such differences. Besides that will not bring any good, it would just make your own thread becomes more chaotic and getting more off topic.
> 
> Honestly, I've seen many of a good things here, especially its related to the development of Vietnam's military capabilities, which I think it is worth to be discussed than anything else.




What do you call people who deceptively take the moral high ground? You know, people who fake it but are really rotten inside? Ahh, yes, we call them sociopath. There seem to be a pattern among your kind on this forum.

I know an indonesian guy. Very authentic. He says the middle to upper class in indonesia are......conniving.

Battleground? Here? HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAAHA losing touch with reality are we?


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## Viet

Tuoi Tre News

Politics
*Exclusive interview: US ambassador on cooperation, trade, aircraft carrier visit to Vietnam*

Kritenbrink says he will try very hard to promote the Vietnam-U.S. relationship

By Quynh Trung / Tuoi Tre News November 20, 2017, 10:39 GMT+7





Daniel J. Kritenbrink, U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam. Photo: Nguyen Khanh/Tuoi Tre News

He was already on an airplane to Hanoi just a week after being officially confirmed by the Senate as the new U.S. ambassador to Vietnam.

Sleeves rolled up, he was ready for his first mission as the ambassador: to prepare for U.S. President Donald Trump’s attendance at the APEC summit in Da Nang, running from November 6 to 11, and his state visit to the Vietnamese capital from November 11 to 12.

He is Daniel J. Kritenbrink, a career diplomat with varied experience in Asia. 

The Senate confirmed Kritenbrink as the new ambassador to Vietnam in October.

He replaced Ted Osius, who still stays in Vietnam after his ambassadorship.

Kritenbrink has served as an American diplomat since 1994. He was the Senior Advisor for North Korea Policy at the Department of State.

A former Deputy Chief of Mission in Beijing, China, Kritenbrink has held senior leadership positions at the Department of State and served as a Senior Director at the National Security Council.

"Hi my friend, please call me Dan." That was how Kritenbrink started his exclusive interview with Tuoi Tre News on November 16 in Hanoi, his first-ever formal contact with local media in his new role.

_Have you ever thought that you will one day become a U.S. ambassador to Vietnam? How was your feeling when President Trump nominated you?_

I am so honored to be a new American ambassador to Vietnam. As a career diplomat, I always want to serve my country and welcome all opportunities to do so. Truly, it is a dream come true for me to be able to represent the U.S. in such an important country like Vietnam. I’m particularly excited to be here because I am so optimistic about our future partnership.

I believe and the U.S. government believes our partnership with Vietnam is one of our most important relationships in the entire region, if not the entire world. I feel a sense of responsibility as well. I can guarantee I will work very hard to make sure we expand our cooperation across the board.

What did your family think when they first heard that you would become the new ambassador to Vietnam and that they would have to move to Vietnam with you? Do they have any expectations living in Hanoi given that it is a foreign land with a very different language and culture?

They are so excited to come here. My family has never been here before, even though this is my fourth time here.

As you may know, we live in Northern Virginia. There is a very large Vietnamese community there. Our favorite restaurants are Vietnamese and we always go to those restaurants close to our house.

We are looking forward to coming here having some real Vietnamese food on the ground here. As I said in my welcome video, we look forward to traveling across Vietnam and making a lot of Vietnamese friends. I do want to study Vietnamese. I had studied it for a couple of months before I came here so it is not very good yet.

_Apart from five priorities you stated in your testimony before the Senate, is there any other specific area that you are interested in and want to personally get involved in regarding the Vietnam-U.S. relationship?_

I tried to lay out five priorities in our partnership because I do think those are among the most important ones that include: trade and investment, security, people to people ties, advancing human rights, and dealing with humanitarian and war legacies. One thing I would say I want to emphasize is I do want to spend a lot of my time promoting people to people ties, getting smart Vietnamese students to travel to the U.S., getting young Americans to travel and study here and making sure that tourists and businesspeople go back and forth. I think it is a foundation for our brighter future to make sure two peoples understand one another, respect one another. Personally, I was an international student when I was younger and it completely transformed my life and helped me become a diplomat. So, I would like to bring many Vietnamese students to study in the U.S. and vice versa.

President Trump paid an official visit to Vietnam during his first year in office. What does it mean to the Vietnam-U.S. relationship, in your opinion? What role does Vietnam play in the "free and open" Indo-Pacific President Trump has called for?

We think that President Trump had a tremendously successful visit here. First, the president and the entire team and all of us are deeply grateful for the tremendous hospitality and warm welcome the president has received, both from Vietnam’s top leaders, particularly President Tran Dai Quang, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, and Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, and from the Vietnamese public. The president was very touched by that. It is so wonderful to see so many Vietnamese friends rushing out in the street, welcoming the president and cheering him. 





_Daniel J. Kritenbrink, U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam, gestures during an interview with _Tuoi Tre News_ in Hanoi on November 16, 2017. Photo: _Nguyen Khanh/Tuoi Tre News


I think the president’s main objective when coming here was to demonstrate the U.S. is a strong and committed partner both to Vietnam and the entire Indo-Pacific region as a whole. The bilateral joint statement both sides issued during the president’s visit will be a blueprint and outline for our partnership in the years to come. Our security cooperation is expanded. In trade and investment, we have signed commercial deals worth US$12 billion. Our education cooperation is strengthened through Fulbright University. We have agreed to deal with war legacy issues like our commitment to eradicate dioxin at Bien Hoa Airport and the Vietnamese government has agreed to give us a new piece of land for rent to build a new building for the U.S. embassy.

President Trump said the U.S. wants strong and independent partners around the world and around the Indo-Pacific region. We invest in your success, we want to have partners that are strong, independent and engaged in free trade and don’t rely on a state-run economic model.

_Speaking to Vietnamese leaders, President Trump said Vietnam and the U.S. have many things in common and trade has become a very important element of our relationship. He looked forward to "fair and reciprocal" two-way trade considering a deficit favoring Vietnam and the U.S. is now Vietnam's largest market. Could you share with us how to approach this target in the years to come?_

The president was very clear in his public remarks as well as in his comments to Vietnamese leaders. The U.S. is very interested in pursuing fair and reciprocal trade. There are tremendous economic opportunities in Vietnam and I think our trading relationship is mutually beneficial. I think American companies are some of the best in the world. We have the best services and the best products that contribute significantly to Vietnam’s objectives, developing your economy and engaging in your economic reforms, and again to promoting prosperity to Vietnamese people. We want to be a part of that. Sometimes there are policies in place that discriminate American companies against other foreign firms. Also, there are barriers to fair competition. I think that is where the president focused on and he wants to advance our trading partnership. He wants to make sure all are mutually beneficial.

I think trade is a key pillar for our bilateral relationship so we want to focus on that again. There are so many tremendous opportunities. Vietnam is America’s fastest-growing export market. I will do everything I can to help American businesses here. I want to highlight the products and services American businesses can offer. If there are challenges or problems on one side or the other, I will try to involve myself and the great team at the embassy to see what we can overcome. 

_Do you think there are any new emerging challenges between Vietnam and the U.S. under Trump presidency, especially in trade and investment? If yes, what can we do to address them?_

There are always challenges in relationships, even in my personal relationship. What I would like to focus on are the tremendous opportunities in the U.S.-Vietnam relationship. I am very optimistic about our future as my friends and the U.S. government are now. We see tremendous potential for this relationship. Our security collaboration is expanding dramatically because we have so many interests in common, whether it is related to the [East Vietnam Sea] or combating terrorism. To address these challenges, both sides need to focus on building mutual trust and mutual respect. We are doing a great job. I think our relationship will continue to grow.

My expectations from the Vietnamese side are that we will continue the great work we have done over the last several years. As an American diplomat, it is particularly emotional to see how far we have come over the last 20 years. We have overcome the painful part of our history, we reconcile to build a good foundation for our relationship. On that foundation, we have done all tremendous things in terms of economics and trade, security, and people to people ties. Even 20 years or 40 years later, we still need to spend time focusing on these issues because they remain important to our relationship. That’s the reason why we commit to further dioxin eradication at Bien Hoa Airport. Both sides are working on very important missions like the humanitarian search for missing soldiers during the war and that is why we continue to offer our great support for UXOs in Vietnam. I think we need to continue to focus there but our primary focus has to be the future.

_In Hanoi, President Trump offered to help mediate or arbitrate when it comes to East Vietnam Sea disputes. How about this possibility?_

Looking at the joint statement, the president reiterates the U.S. commitment to free and open Indo-Pacific which includes our shared interests with Vietnam and principles to ensure maritime disputes in the [East Vietnam Sea] are resolved peacefully and in accordance with international law, to make sure all countries enjoy freedom of navigation and freedom of over-flight, and unimpeded commerce. The sea plays a vital role in the global economy. It is an important waterway for trade flows. America will fly and sail anywhere international law allows. We and Vietnam remain committed to these principles.

We will continue to focus on the diplomacy there with partners like Vietnam and we will continue to build Vietnam’s maritime capability. You probably know the president has announced that we had provided Vietnam with a Hamilton-class Coast Guard vessel.

_Could you assess the prospects of our maritime security collaboration, especially a visit to Vietnam by a U.S. aircraft carrier next year?_

It is promising because we have common interests. Both believe in the free and open maritime domain. We both believe the disputes existing in the [East Vietnam Sea] should be resolved peacefully. What the U.S. is doing together with Vietnam and also other partners like the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia is helping all of our friends develop their maritime capability to make sure they are able to defend their waters and have the ability to support their fishermen.

We will continue to see our great collaboration between the U.S. and Vietnam in maritime security and our two militaries as well. That is a very exciting part of our relationship.

I am particularly excited to see the announcement that our aircraft carrier will visit Vietnam in 2018. That will be amazing to see the carrier and thousands of sailors and all capabilities they offer. I think that is a real powerful symbol for our partnership

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## Aqsuperman

Initial outfitting of the CSB 8020 has been completed. The ship is on its way to Vietnam at the moment.

Now the only thing left to do is securing a stable ammunition supply for the 76mm Oto Melara…

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## Viet

Sea trails complete, Gepard Frigate is on the way to Vietnam. I assume the chinese will keep an eye on the warship as seen previoussy with other warships of Vietnam operating at sea.














Vietnam buys Israeli made iSea-40HD. the sensor is expected to install on patrol boats in 2018.

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## Viet

Sea Platforms
*Poland to provide SAR vessels for Vietnam*
*Krzystof Kuska* - Jane's Navy International 
05 December 2017

The Polish government signed a framework loan agreement with Vietnam for the construction of six search-and-rescue (SAR) vessels on 28 November.

The project, valued at EUR200 million (USD237 million), will be co-ordinated by Polish Armaments Group (PGZ) subsidiary Cenzin. Under the contract terms, Remontowa Shipbuilding in Gdańsk will build the first two vessels. The second batch of four will be built in Vietnam, with Poland providing technology transfer and material kits.

According to Cenzin, a build contract is expected to be signed in the coming months and construction on the first vessel will start in 2018. The project is planned to be completed within four years.

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## Aqsuperman

Gepard 487 preprae to go home

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## Aqsuperman

Before returning home, CSB 8020 decided to visit her sisters in the Philipine Navy

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## Viet

OHDACA-funded kindergartens open in Vietnam
December 12, 2017 
_Story and photos by_
_Sgt. 1st Class Corey Ray_
_U.S. Army-Pacific Public Affairs_

LIEN THUY, Vietnam — Representatives from the U.S. Army-Pacific, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the U.S. Embassy in Vietnam were met with throngs of dancing children during a ribbon cutting ceremony at a new U.S. funded kindergarten, here, Dec. 7.

Lien Thuy is a commune located in the North Central Coast region of Vietnam and one of the poorest provinces in the country. The new regional, 10-room kindergarten can support the education of 320 children and doubles as a storm shelter as the region is prone to torrential rains and flooding.

Brig. Gen. Douglas Anderson, deputy commander, Army Reserve, USARPAC and commander of the 9th Mission Support Command, spoke at the ribbon cutting ceremony.

LIEN THUY, Vietnam — Locals sneak a peek at festivities during a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a U.S.-funded kindergarten, in Lien Thuy, Vietnam, Dec. 7, 2017. The new regional, ten-room kindergarten can support the education of 320 children and doubles as a storm shelter as the region is prone to torrential rains and flooding. U.S. Pacific Command has built 20 schools in Vietnam since 2009 using Overseas Humanitarian, Disaster, and Civic Aid funds. (U.S. Army photo by Sgt. 1st Class Corey Ray)

“Since 2009, the U.S government, through the Overseas Humanitarian, Disaster and Civic Aid (OHDACA) program, has partnered with the Vietnamese government and communities to construct schools, clinics, centers and bridges in many towns in Vietnam. And the Lien Thuy kindergarten is the 20th school we’ve built in Vietnam under our partnership program,” he said.

According to the Defense Security Cooperation Agency’s website, OHDACA-funded activities are intended to directly address humanitarian needs, augment Combatant Commander (CCDR) capabilities to respond to humanitarian crises, help generate long-term positive perceptions and goodwill for Department of Defense, and promote cooperation with foreign military and civilian counterparts.

Concurrently, OHDACA-funded activities provide direct benefits to the HN by improving the basic living conditions of the civilian populace in a country susceptible to extremism, enhancing the legitimacy of the HN government by improving or building its capacity to provide essential services (such as health care or education) to its populace, and promoting stability in the HN or region.”

This was the second OHDACA-funded kindergarten opened in the last three days. The other was opened in the Quang Vinh Commune, Hue Province in Vietnam, Dec. 5. Each project cost approximately $500 thousand and was built in under a year.

The projects were requested by Vietnam, developed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, sponsored and funded by U.S. Pacific Command and coordinated with the U.S. Embassy in Vietnam.

“This close cooperation between Vietnam and the U.S. reflects the spirit of our partnership between the two countries,” said Anderson.


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## Farhan Bohra

@Carlosa You might find this interesting, I think I predicted this happen in past, now India-Singapore officially signed the pact. For first 3 years,Indian Navy deploy 2 Brahmputra Class frigates.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...base-east-of-malacca-in-singapore/505455.html

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopo...ve-read-about-china-and-singapore-india-naval

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## Aqsuperman

CSB 8020 is finally home.This mark the first transfer of lethal weaponry from the US to VN.

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## Viet

Strong women

"Star Wars: The Last Jedi" Actress Kelly Marie Tran in Singapore to promote the movie.





Lt. Đỗ Thị Hằng Nga in Sri Lanka to promote UN peace keeping operations

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## Viet

Pretty cool intevention, make old to new, unmanned radar guided 57mm artillery
automatic loading, firing speed 70 shells a minute, can operate day and night.






















a battery of unmanned artillery

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## Viet

Visit of US General Terrence J. O’Shaughnessy, the Air Force Commander of US Pacific Central Command. It is reported he offers pilot trainings on weapon systems, Vietnam wants to acquire. P3 and F16. Good stuffs, the US has too many surpluses, why not give them to Vietnam? we defend peace in the region.

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## Viet

Congrats to Kathy Tran for winning a seat in the House of Delegates of Virginia






Also congrats to Dean Tran for winning a seat in the Senate of Massachusetts


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## Aqsuperman

Gen. Terrence J. O’Shaughnessy, Commander of the Pacific Airforce paid a visit to the VPAF airbases.

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## Aqsuperman

Missile naval drill of the VPN. Expend a lot of KH 35 and 3M 54 it seems

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## Viet

Yes it seems a serious drill is undertaken with numerous missiles being fired by surface warships, submarines and coastal artillery. Including firing of expensive supersonic antiship missiles Kalibr by submerged submarines.


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## Viet

6 new patrol vessels coming






Until they fall apart.


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## Viet

Firing antiship missiles

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## Viet

*History*

In these days during Chrismas 1972, the US airforce launched the greatest ever air assault on civilian cities in the history of war. 153 strategic bombers B-52 taking off Guam und Utapao (Thailand) and 1,100 fighter jets taking off from their bases and 6 Aircraft Carriers operating in the Gulf of Tonkin launched wave after wave attacks on primary targets: Hanoi and Haiphong. Numerous US tank aircrafts were readied at the bases at Thailand and Philippines.
The destructions to Hanoi and Haiphong were enormous. North Vietnam air defence was strong with a vast network of radars, anti aircraft guns and SAMs, but the air force only had 100 Mig21 fighter jets.


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## TenLua

EastWind said:


> Congrats to Kathy Tran for winning a seat in the House of Delegates of Virginia
> View attachment 443931
> 
> 
> 
> Also congrats to Dean Tran for winning a seat in the Senate of Massachusetts
> View attachment 443938



LOL these Vietnamese politicians are going to get REKT. American politic is brutal; survival of the most ruthless. Just read Machiavelli to see what it's all about.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> LOL these Vietnamese politicians are going to get REKT. American politic is brutal; survival of the most ruthless. Just read Machiavelli to see what it's all about.


no problem, politics is a dirty business, but our people will increase vietnamese influence in America. we can copy the Jews.

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## Viet

https://de.sputniknews.com/videoklub/20171225318842179-russische-lenkwaffe-kalibr-vietnam-uebungen/

Apparently one of the submarines in the exercise fires one land attack missile Kalibr 3M-14. The cruise missile has a warhead of 450 kg with splitted ammunitions, flying 20m over sea surface, 50m over land surface on final route to targets, range 2,500km, whereas the russians limit the max range when selling the missiles to Vietnam.


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## Viet

defense budget is very little, while we are waiting for the delivery of T90s, the army still possesses large stock piles of old and modernized tanks such as T55 tank with laser finder.


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## TenLua

EastWind said:


> defense budget is very little, while we are waiting for the delivery of T90s, the army still possesses large stock piles of old and modernized tanks such as T55 tank with laser finder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 445630



Is that the marine uniform?

These men need to be fed, they look hungry and exhausted.


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## Aqsuperman

VPA RPO - A Thermobaric Rocket of the Chemical Warfare unit.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Is that the marine uniform?
> 
> These men need to be fed, they look hungry and exhausted.


the Marines. yeh they need to eat more beef and drink more milk. ha ha.











the Marines seem being better equipped then other Infantry Troops.

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## Viet

Not too bad, the new Chinese movie film "Youth" is well made, featuring the war against Vietnam in 1979.

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## Viet

New in service: Spyder anti aircraft missile system

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## Viet

Visiting the British Army













6 US made highspeed light patrol vessels officially enter Vietnam Coast Guard. Metal Shark Defiant 45, the hull is made of aluminium.

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## Viet

Some improvements are made to the powerful 36D6 acquisition radar. One single S300 missile system can follow 120 aerial targets in any one given time. Missiles can be launched targeting up to 60 incoming enemy planes, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles by S300 fire control computer.


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## Viet

http://www.janes.com/article/76749/vietnam-russia-sign-truck-manufacturing-deal

Vietnam and Russia have just signed a truck manufacturing deal. Russia will transfer technology and expertise. That will enable Vietnam to produce trucks for domestic and export markets. Truck types include kamaz, gaz and uaz in both variants commercial and military trucks.

Wonderful Pantsir missile/gun truck on kamaz chassis


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## Viet

Naval Weapons
*Vietnam’s ex-US Coast Guard cutter arrives home*
*Ridzwan Rahmat* - Jane's Navy International
03 January 2018






_Vietnamese crew lining the starboard rail of CSB-8020 during its transfer ceremony at US Coast Guard Base Honolulu, in May 2017. Source: US Coast Guard
_

*Key Points*

The Vietnam Coast Guard’s largest vessel has now arrived in-country
The platform, which was once deployed by the United States to provide gunfire support in the Vietnam War, will now enforce Hanoi’s claims in the South China Sea
The Vietnam Coast Guard’s (Canh Sát Bin Vit Nam: CSBV) ex-Hamilton-class high-endurance cutter that was previously in service with the United States Coast Guard (USCG) has arrived in-country.

The vessel, which was formerly known as USCG _Morgenthau_ (WHEC 722), departed Honolulu in November 2017, and arrived in Vung Tau, Vietnam on 15 December 2017, according to a vessel movement analysis by _Jane’s_ . On its journey to home, the 115 m ship, which now bears the pennant number 8020, made a port call in Manila on 12 December.

CSB-8020 was officially handed over to Vietnam in May 2017. However the vessel, and a pioneering crew of Vietnamese personnel, remained in Hawaii in the ensuing months to conduct familiarisation and training activities with USCG officials. CSB-8020 is now the largest vessel in service with the CSBV.

The Hamilton class has an overall length of 115.2 m, an overall beam of 13.1 m, and a hull draught of 6.1 m. The cutter has a top speed of 29 kt, a standard range of 9,600 n miles (17,779 km) at 15 kt, and can accommodate a crew of 162 including 19 officers, and one helicopter on the flight deck.

While in USCG service, ex- _Morgenthau_ was armed with one 76 mm naval gun as a primary weapon, two Orbital M242 Bushmaster dual-feed chain guns, and one 20 mm Raytheon close-in weapon system (CIWS). The ship was deployed for naval gunfire support (NGFS) missions in the Vietnam War.


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## Viet

A troop of robots armed to the teeth on battle field is the goal.







some Vietnam made robots

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## TenLua

EastWind said:


> A troop of robots armed to the teeth on battle field is the goal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some Vietnam made robots



Dude, Ima soooo sneak up on one of those and ride it, Im sooo gonna.


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## Viet

some updates on this thread

a new Russia made light guided missile Frigate (Gepard class) arrives Singapore before heading to final destination in Vietnam.




new improved domestic made sniper rifle OSV-96, calibre 12,7 x 108 mm




155mm artillery in exercise





improved VN made medium range radar RV-02 capble to detect enemy stealth fighter jets



















new domestic made armored vehicles










the first visit of US aircraft carriers since end of Vietnam war is expected in March







Vietnam is reported negotiating with Russia for delivery of 4 more guided missile Corvettes (Molniya class).

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## Viet

new: 105mm artillery on tracked verhicle





Marines with CTAR-21 assualt rifle





Rare event: the Army chiefs of the US and Russia, Jim Mattis and Sergei Shoigu, will held talks with Vietnamese Army Chief in Hanoi next week.











In an public speech the new U.S. ambassador to Vietnam Daniel Kritenbrink says “There are two things I would like to tell you after meeting with Mr. President in Vietnam: first, just like me,* Mr. President puts 100 percent trust in Vietnam, and second, Mr. President pledges to take action to promote this partnership*”. The US carrier group led by US aircraft carrier Carl Vilson will probably be the first to make port call to Cam Ranh bay. Many other carriers may follow suit.


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## Viet

3,000 ton oceanic research vessel for Taiwan, built by Triyards in Vietnam. Interesting, Taiwan is much more advanced but is unable to build such sophisticated vessels. anyway TW wants more vessels.


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## Viet

Built by Damen Vietnam shipyard, inducting 2 (Stan Patro class) new 42m long, speed 25.5kn, ships to the Border Guard. Unlike the Coast Guard, that is under civil admistration, these ships belong to the Border Guard, with men and women, that will play the first line of defense, holding back the enemy as long as possible until the arrival of the main strike force. Those ships are expected to be heavily armed.


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## Aqsuperman

Training with US made 155mm M114 

Cant believe we still have ammunition for these guys

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## Nike

Aqsuperman said:


> Training with US made 155mm M114
> 
> Cant believe we still have ammunition for these guys



155 mm cal is abundant in number, and easy to get in open market


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## gtiger

madokafc said:


> 155 mm cal is abundant in number, and easy to get in open market



Right. Based on one of the pictures, the shells used for the guns were M107s, which are still manufactured by many countries. I wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam itself had factories that could churn out these shells (dated back to the 1930s.)


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## gtiger

EastWind said:


> no problem, politics is a dirty business, but our people will increase vietnamese influence in America. we can copy the Jews.



A voice perhaps. The Jewish people have a lot of money for influence (AIPAC). The Vietnamese people do not.


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## Viet

gtiger said:


> A voice perhaps. The Jewish people have a lot of money for influence (AIPAC). The Vietnamese people do not.


true, the Jews have huge influence not only in America, but in Germany, in France, in Italy and many other parts of the world. we have money with the evidence of exile Vietnamese transfering $20 billion per year to the homeland, with most of the money coming from the United States, but we don´t have the influence the Jews have. that is something we can learn from them. they are smart, the chinese are smart too, but why the Jews have influence while the Chinese almost none? if one gets thru to this one can learn one or two things from them. for instance, while the chinese´ behavior is very predictable, the of the Jews almost impossible to predict. we don´t know what they have in minds.


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## Viet

Visit of Russian military chief Sergei Shoigu. Interesting: Russian, Vietnam have drawn up plan for joint military exercises. Besides Russia wants to transfer some weapon technologies, and share experience of using weapons in real combat — a reference to Russia's campaign in Syria. Vietnam wants Russia to play a greater role in Asia-Pacific.










US military chief James Matties also in Hanoi for consultations. Surprise: the first US aircraft carrier will visit Da Nang, not Cam Ranh bay, in March. Besides the US is expected to gift another large Hamilton class patrol vessel by next year. so everyone is happy: Russia and America.


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## Viva_Viet

EastWind said:


> new: 105mm artillery on tracked verhicle
> View attachment 449028
> 
> 
> Marines with CTAR-21 assualt rifle
> View attachment 449033
> 
> 
> Rare event: the Army chiefs of the US and Russia, Jim Mattis and Sergei Shoigu, will held talks with Vietnamese Army Chief in Hanoi next week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In an public speech the new U.S. ambassador to Vietnam Daniel Kritenbrink says “There are two things I would like to tell you after meeting with Mr. President in Vietnam: first, just like me,* Mr. President puts 100 percent trust in Vietnam, and second, Mr. President pledges to take action to promote this partnership*”. The US carrier group led by US aircraft carrier Carl Vilson will probably be the first to make port call to Cam Ranh bay. Many other carriers may follow suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 449042


Good news, VN is friendly and peaceful nation that all US president can trust

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## Svantana

Viet nam - Indonesia bilateral meeting in New Delhi.

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## Viet

2,600 ton submarine rescue vessel built by TNHH shipyard






new model of submarine rescue vessel, with heli pad


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## Viet

Built by *Sông Thu shipyard*
two new large 4,000 ton patrol vessels DN-4000 class for the Coast Guard










60 ships of various sizes under construction at Song Thu shipyard










Unter negotiation. Vietnam seeks foreign assistance especially from the Dutch in building modern warships as corvettes, frigates and destroyers.


























Members of Vietnam Army as guest in India. Some may have observed India test firing long range nuclear balistic missile Agni-V. a proud moment for India.

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## Aqsuperman

Second Hamilton-class cutter for Vietnam Coast Guard confirmed!

https://navaltoday.com/2018/01/24/us-coast-guard-cutter-sherman-returns-from-final-deployment/

*US Coast Guard cutter Sherman returns from final deployment*



US Coast Guard photo of USCGC Sherman

*US Coast Guard’s high endurance cutter Sherman (WHEC 720) returned from its final deployment on January 23, completing a 76-day patrol in the Bering Sea.*

The deployment was Sherman’s last one before it decommissions in March this year after nearly 50 years of service.

The cutter is scheduled to be decommissioned on March 29 and will reportedly be transferred to Vietnam. Should this be the case, Sherman would be joining former sister ship USCGC Morgenthau which was renamed to ‘CSB 8020’ after it was transferred to Vietnam.

During their final patrol, the crew supported the safe transit of a disabled vessel over 800 miles to Dutch Harbor, enforced fisheries regulations in the Bering Sea and the Gulf of Alaska. They also provided a command and control platform capable of embarking a helicopter, thus providing search and rescue coverage to those operating in the Bering Sea.

Sherman has a storied history including being the last remaining US Warship in the Coast Guard or Navy to have sunk an enemy vessel. It is also one of only two cutters to hold the Vietnam Service Award and the only cutter to hold the Combat Action Ribbon for action in the Vietnam War.

In 2001 it became the first cutter to circumnavigate the world, after conducting UN sanctions enforcement duty in the Persian Gulf and goodwill projects in Madagascar, South Africa and Cape Verde.

Adding to Sherman’s history, in March of 2007, a boarding team dispatched from the cutter discovered 17 metric tons of cocaine on the Panamanian-flagged freighter, Gatun. This seizure remains the largest drug bust in US history with an estimated street value of $600 million. As the record holder, Sherman proudly wears the Golden Snowflake.

“As Sherman and her crew return home from this final patrol, it is humbling to look back on the history and the accomplishments of this crew and the previous,” said Capt. Steve Wittrock, commanding officer of Sherman. “This final patrol has been significant in that the Bering Sea mission is one of the most demanding and historically important in the Coast Guard and I am very proud of the way that the crew has performed throughout the last two challenging months.”

Sherman is one of the Coast Guard’s four remaining 378-foot high endurance cutters still in operation. The 1950s era fleet of cutters is presently being replaced by the national security cutters, which will soon serve as the Coast Guard’s primary, long-range asset. Honolulu will serve as a homeport to two of the national security cutters, replacing Sherman and the already decommissioned Morgenthau.

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## Viet

Ship radar (X-band 8-10 GHz), range 300km, produced by Vietnam military institute of technology



































some new ships on display made by Vietnam shipyards





Stan Patrol (SPa) fast patrol vessel





2,400 ton support vessel






FSC 5009 mulipurpose vessel






another supoort vessel





Tug boat

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## Viet

9th Vietnam/US security dialogue in Hanoi. More cooperations are expected, with the US beginning to provide more assistances, although we haven’t reached the point yet when we will officially ask the US for providing security garantine.

the Chinese run amok. Globaltimes warns the US and Vietnam not to cross the red line. US aircraft carriers docking at Vietnamese ports is interpreted as such. Funny. Maybe as direct response Donald Trumps wants to stay on the safe side with asking the Congress for more money. $716 billion for 2019 military budget.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1087174.shtml


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## Viet

where are all Viet members @Carlosa @AViet @other? 

Interesting picture: thousands of armed Chinese militia members made ready to fight for Vietnam in its war against the US armed forces in 1966. However it is not reported anyone of them had made the way to Vietnam.






Today the picture is reversed with Vietnam´s greatest challenge: how to get stealthy close to America without offending a big neighbor? Donald Trump to a state visit in Hanoi.


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## Viet

*Indian, Vietnamese armies hold first military exercise*
PTI|
Jan 29, 2018, 09.27 PM IST









Read more at:
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/62699234.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst


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## Viet

Submarine hunters (Petya class) in recent exercise










It is expected the US will retire two more large patrol vessels Midgett & Mellon of Hamilton class this year and next to transfer to Vietnam.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Submarine hunters (Petya class) in recent exercise
> 
> View attachment 451187
> 
> View attachment 451189
> 
> 
> It is expected the US will retire two more large patrol vessels Midgett & Mellon of Hamilton class this year and next to transfer to Vietnam.
> 
> View attachment 451193
> 
> View attachment 451194


East wind is that you?


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam first BTR - 152 ambulance is ready to roll....And it look kind of okay - ish....

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## Viet

YuChen said:


> East wind is that you?


I have no clue what you are talking about. Ah all the best to the PLA soldiers who are ready to risk their lives in cleaning up the mines laid by the PLA along the border to Vietnam. I think we will build highways and railways across the borders once all mines are removed. it is a bit weird the PLA believed mines could hinder or slow down a possible Vietnamese tank army assault.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> I have no clue what you are talking about. Ah all the best to the PLA soldiers who are ready to risk their lives in cleaning up the mines laid by the PLA along the border to Vietnam. I think we will build highways and railways across the borders once all mines are removed. it is a bit weird the PLA believed mines could hinder or slow down a possible Vietnamese tank army assault.


You used the ID "EastWind" previously.


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## Viet

Vietnam has reportedly acquired the cost effective Israeli land attack missile system EXTRA in 2013 (range 150 km, weight of 150 kg , circular error probability (CEP) of 10 m). Israeli now develops a new improved version with range 300km. It won´t harm anybody if we could acquire the technology and mass produce the long range version.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/feb...e_extra_rocket/missisle_systems_from_imi.html






Greeting Pentagon chief Jim Mattis in Hà Nội airport. Washington apparently seeks closer tie to Vietnam since the Philippines under Durtede shuns America. not a bad thing though.


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## Serge2018

Hello everybody!

Week ago have joined the Forum, glad to read you and ready to add something useful to this topic. 

But before it, I have to discover around 750 pages of the issue 
Unfortunately, the vast majority of pictures and links (made 4-5 years ago) are not available now.

If you have any questions related to the highlights of the VNA in the post-Soviet media and relevant think tanks - just ask me.

Have a nice day!



Viet said:


>



Wow, see this one for the first time.

What is the name of this armored car?
Is it based on BTR-152?
And what does mean CSCO signature on the helmets?

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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> Hello everybody!
> 
> Week ago have joined the Forum, glad to read you and ready to add something useful to this topic.
> 
> But before it, I have to discover around 750 pages of the issue
> Unfortunately, the vast majority of pictures and links (made 4-5 years ago) are not available now.
> 
> If you have any questions related to the highlights of the VNA in the post-Soviet media and relevant think tanks - just ask me.
> 
> Have a nice day!
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, see this one for the first time.
> 
> What is the name of this armored car?
> Is it based on BTR-152?
> And what does mean CSCO signature on the helmets?


oh the post was made some times ago, can´t remember, I believe CSCD = Cảnh sát Cơ động (mobile police). I think riot police is a more correct term.

really you read thru 750 pages? 

yes please share some of the highlights of the VNA in the post-Soviet media and relevant think tanks


































Headquarters of the Police


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## TOTUU

Viet said:


> where are all Viet members @Carlosa @AViet @other?
> 
> Interesting picture: thousands of armed Chinese militia members made ready to fight for Vietnam in its war against the US armed forces in 1966. However it is not reported anyone of them had made the way to Vietnam.
> 
> View attachment 451123
> 
> 
> Today the picture is reversed with Vietnam´s greatest challenge: how to get stealthy close to America without offending a big neighbor? Donald Trump to a state visit in Hanoi.
> 
> View attachment 451126


 Interesting‘s thing is china helped viet , then viet betray , then China have to kill traitor .Let a man who has helped you beat you, Vietnam is awesome.

To say more, the Vietnamese spread propaganda about to hate China , don't worry , we don't care . you make any progress, we really don't care, we won't worry, and we congratulate you .
Maybe you think it's arrogant , But we really can't change it .
Every time I look at your Vietnamese and Indian propaganda and comments, we all want to laugh . The most important thing is to do your own thing, not to be hostile or to belittle your opponent .

And your(india /viet) behavior, can make more Vietnamese indians hate China and despise China , meanwhile ,
It will also infuriate Chinese who are not hostile to you .
This kind of hate behavior is really bad .
Of course, It's not because we're noble. China's mentality is determined by its national conditions, just as Vietnam doesn't care about Cambodia .
Actually, Vietnam's media and democracy, including your behavior, is a bit too far. It's not good for you. You hate China and be hostile to China is OK , but pay attention to discretion. Too much will do harm to you.


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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> oh the post was made some times ago, can´t remember, I believe CSCD = Cảnh sát Cơ động (mobile police). I think riot police is a more correct term.



Looks like (armament, equipment, uniform etc.) some of these guys are from police special forces.



Viet said:


> really you read thru 750 pages?



Yeah, I'm still looking through. 
I guess it's fair before starting to be involved in discussions (despite I'm well-read about the issue).



Viet said:


> yes please share some of the highlights of the VNA in the post-Soviet media and relevant think tanks



If you specify what exactly, I will provide, for sure. 
Cuz there are tons of information in russian language segment of the web.

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## Aqsuperman

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> Interesting‘s thing is china helped viet , then viet betray , then China have to kill traitor .Let a man who has helped you beat you, Vietnam is awesome.
> 
> To say more, the Vietnamese spread propaganda about to hate China , don't worry , we don't care . you make any progress, we really don't care, we won't worry, and we congratulate you .
> Maybe you think it's arrogant , But we really can't change it .
> Every time I look at your Vietnamese and Indian propaganda and comments, we all want to laugh . The most important thing is to do your own thing, not to be hostile or to belittle your opponent .
> 
> And your(india /viet) behavior, can make more Vietnamese indians hate China and despise China , meanwhile ,
> It will also infuriate Chinese who are not hostile to you .
> This kind of hate behavior is really bad .
> Of course, It's not because we're noble. China's mentality is determined by its national conditions, just as Vietnam doesn't care about Cambodia .
> Actually, Vietnam's media and democracy, including your behavior, is a bit too far. It's not good for you. You hate China and be hostile to China is OK , but pay attention to discretion. Too much will do harm to you.



ARE. YOU. FCKING. SERIOUS?

Betray? Traitor? Dude, China and Viet have been at it for thousands of years since the birth of both countries. Count how many time China has paid "a little visit" to Vietnam and got itself lit up in the process. Help? Sure, Soviet helped China and China helped Vietnam, all have their own interest in the whole ordeal so don't run around acting like China assistance to Vietnam is out of pure generosity. And remember that it was China that backed Khmer Rouge and its genocide regime in Cambodia. Vietnam overthrew the Khmer Rouge and China attacked Vietnam to protect its crony. China "beat" Vietnam? As in Cultural Revolution "beat" China? That is indeed awesome.

Propaganda.....right, could you go back a couple of page in this thread, please? You would see a giant Chinese asshole named TerranMarine. Read through his posts and then we can discuss whether Vietnamese or Chinese is more "arrogant", ok? Have a great day.

Vietnam related defense new now

Two brand new Gepard 3.9 ships are officially incorporated into the Vietnam People Navy. 015 Tran Hung Dao and 016 Quang Trung, famous Vietnamese leaders that taught Chinese invaders a lesson back in the old days.






















Serge2018 said:


> Hello everybody!
> 
> Week ago have joined the Forum, glad to read you and ready to add something useful to this topic.
> 
> But before it, I have to discover around 750 pages of the issue
> Unfortunately, the vast majority of pictures and links (made 4-5 years ago) are not available now.
> 
> If you have any questions related to the highlights of the VNA in the post-Soviet media and relevant think tanks - just ask me.
> 
> Have a nice day!
> 
> Wow, see this one for the first time.
> 
> What is the name of this armored car?
> Is it based on BTR-152?
> And what does mean CSCO signature on the helmets?



That is an Isreal made APC, RAM - 2000. CSCĐ, or Mobile Force, is more or less to a heavily armed police force for special operation though you could see them dealing with common crimes as well. 

Oh and i have some questions, mainly relate to the Vietnam submarine training program. I believed beforeKilo 636, Soviet and later Russia did provive submarine traning to Vietnam. Do you have any picture or infomation on that subject?


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## TOTUU

Aqsuperman said:


> ARE. YOU. FCKING. SERIOUS?
> 
> Betray? Traitor? Dude, China and Viet have been at it for thousands of years since the birth of both countries. Count how many time China has paid "a little visit" to Vietnam and got itself lit up in the process. Help? Sure, Soviet helped China and China helped Vietnam, all have their own interest in the whole ordeal so don't run around acting like China assistance to Vietnam is out of pure generosity. And remember that it was China that backed Khmer Rouge and its genocide regime in Cambodia. Vietnam overthrew the Khmer Rouge and China attacked Vietnam to protect its crony. China "beat" Vietnam? As in Cultural Revolution "beat" China? That is indeed awesome.
> 
> Propaganda.....right, could you go back a couple of page in this thread, please? You would see a giant Chinese asshole named TerranMarine. Read through his posts and then we can discuss whether Vietnamese or Chinese is more "arrogant", ok? Have a great day.
> 
> Vietnam related defense new now
> 
> Two brand new Gepard 3.9 ships are officially incorporated into the Vietnam People Navy. 015 Tran Hung Dao and 016 Quang Trung, famous Vietnamese leaders that taught Chinese invaders a lesson back in the old days.


 how many time China has paid "a little visit" to Vietnam ???? vietnam north is 1000 years is china , visit ? in fact in history , when china weak , Vietnam attacks China too . How did you get to the south of Vietnam ? 
On the other hand, for a thousand years, China and Vietnam have how many years in war and how many years in peace. Then we can count the war and peace between Vietnam and other neighboring countries for a thousand years, as well as changes in the territorial boundaries . In this millennium, the territory of Vietnam has increased or decreased. 
Do you think Vietnam's northern border has not changed for more than 1,000 years because of Vietnam?
why Vietnam's southern border expanding south for a thousand years ? history ,now is tool ,and in history ,it is not hate each other , There are many Kings ,it is like Civil war of region .
China's aid to Vietnam is not pure ? What do you want to be pure? You take a pure example. others help you, you must say that others are not pure. LOL . Give me an example of Vietnam's pure aid. Let me see if it's pure or not . .

You say a Chinese comment makes you unhappy, then please see why?
like me , Every time I see news and comments from Vietnam, I have to hate Vietnam . Although I am a Chinese who likes Vietnam .

News reports and comments from Vietnam have angered the Chinese. If you disagree, please search trung quoc on youtube \ google ! And you can search 越南 （Vietnam ，Chinese ）. You compare .
Almost no Chinese people care about Vietnam , hate vietnam Almost None . But Vietnamese comments and reports have angered some Chinese. In fact, many Chinese hate Vietnam because of Vietnamese news and commentary.

The Vietnamese hated China , it is OK , We don't care , Chinese understand. But don't overdo it.

The Vietnamese can concentrate on development, and then be strong enough to fight China. But there really is no need to smear or promote hatred of China .

We don't care about Vietnamese warships and troops . Now Vietnam's military is moving too slowly . I hope your military progress faster .

* Two brand new Gepard 3.9ships * , It's not enough , Gepard , too weak . I personally think Vietnam needs to get the attention of the Chinese, at least two aircraft carriers . Produce as much as you can , don't buy other country goods ,Europe and Russia's warships are not good , they no money now ,so their many warship Technology is too slow . If you can, you can buy 5 - 10 American zumwalt-class destroyers .

Vietnam compete with china for the island, need at least* 20 destroyers* and *3 aircraft carriers ,* 200 F22 aircraft , 500 F35 aircraft , Military expenditure spending is at least *$80 billion* .

You might think that this is arrogance, that the Chinese don't care about Vietnam and look down on Vietnam.Maybe you are right, but the Chinese really don't care much about other countries, even the United States , We are more focused on our own development, focusing on technology and economics .If you don't believe it, you can see what the official media in China are reporting .

In the end, I want to say good luck to Vietnam, just like most Chinese people I hope Vietnam is getting better and better .
Of course, the two countries should fight when they need fight.


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## Aqsuperman

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> how many time China has paid "a little visit" to Vietnam ???? vietnam north is 1000 years is china , visit ? in fact in history , when china weak , Vietnam attacks China too . How did you get to the south of Vietnam ?
> On the other hand, for a thousand years, China and Vietnam have how many years in war and how many years in peace. Then we can count the war and peace between Vietnam and other neighboring countries for a thousand years, as well as changes in the territorial boundaries . In this millennium, the territory of Vietnam has increased or decreased.
> Do you think Vietnam's northern border has not changed for more than 1,000 years because of Vietnam?
> why Vietnam's southern border expanding south for a thousand years ? history ,now is tool ,and in history ,it is not hate each other , There are many Kings ,it is like Civil war of region .
> China's aid to Vietnam is not pure ? What do you want to be pure? You take a pure example. others help you, you must say that others are not pure. LOL . Give me an example of Vietnam's pure aid. Let me see if it's pure or not . .
> 
> You say a Chinese comment makes you unhappy, then please see why?
> like me , Every time I see news and comments from Vietnam, I have to hate Vietnam . Although I am a Chinese who likes Vietnam .
> 
> News reports and comments from Vietnam have angered the Chinese. If you disagree, please search trung quoc on youtube \ google ! And you can search 越南 （Vietnam ，Chinese ）. You compare .
> Almost no Chinese people care about Vietnam , hate vietnam Almost None . But Vietnamese comments and reports have angered some Chinese. In fact, many Chinese hate Vietnam because of Vietnamese news and commentary.
> 
> The Vietnamese hated China , it is OK , We don't care , Chinese understand. But don't overdo it.
> 
> The Vietnamese can concentrate on development, and then be strong enough to fight China. But there really is no need to smear or promote hatred of China .
> 
> We don't care about Vietnamese warships and troops . Now Vietnam's military is moving too slowly . I hope your military progress faster .
> 
> * Two brand new Gepard 3.9ships * , It's not enough , Gepard , too weak . I personally think Vietnam needs to get the attention of the Chinese, at least two aircraft carriers . Produce as much as you can , don't buy other country goods ,Europe and Russia's warships are not good , they no money now ,so their many warship Technology is too slow . If you can, you can buy 5 - 10 American zumwalt-class destroyers .
> 
> Vietnam compete with china for the island, need at least* 20 destroyers* and *3 aircraft carriers ,* 200 F22 aircraft , 500 F35 aircraft , Military expenditure spending is at least *$80 billion* .
> 
> You might think that this is arrogance, that the Chinese don't care about Vietnam and look down on Vietnam.Maybe you are right, but the Chinese really don't care much about other countries, even the United States , We are more focused on our own development, focusing on technology and economics .If you don't believe it, you can see what the official media in China are reporting .
> 
> In the end, I want to say good luck to Vietnam, just like most Chinese people I hope Vietnam is getting better and better .
> Of course, the two countries should fight when they need fight.



Again, ARE. YOU. FCKING. SERIOUS?

First, you open your comment about Vietnam "betray" China and then China has to kill the traitor. Why the hell that you think Vietnam "betray" China when China back a genocide regime like Khmer Rouge that massacre Vietnam civilian? Is that what Chinese call help? All of your babbling about history and shit fail to answer key questions: Why China support Khmer Rouge to kill Vietnamese? Why China attacked Vietnam in 1979 and demanded Vietnam to withdraw from Cambodia when dozens of thousands of Cambodian and Vietnamese are killed daily by Khmer Rouge? China only helped Vietnam because they wanted to keep the US distracted and away from the Taiwan issue. In term of betrayal, I dare say the Soviet would have lovely opinions about China action in the 1962 border war.

Second, I never said ordinary Chinese comment make me unhappy. I said the presence of a giant Chinese asshole is a proof that no matter where you go, Chinese arrogance far surpass Vietnamese counterpart. No Chinese ever care about Vietnam? Hah, then would you explain the action of TerranMarine? He got his *** banned because he can't keep his arrogance from exploding inside a Vietnamese thread. He searched out all the tabloid articles that suit his ego and spam it everywhere he can. Go back a couple page to see the action of your fellow countryman. Official media? We both know official media is shit, the more radical comment mostly come from social media.

Third, Chinese arms for Vietnam? That is such a good joke I can't stop laughing. Sure, Gepard is weak, US carrier is weak, Japan submarine is weak, everything is weak and Chinese stuff would beat everything. Good luck with that kind of thought. F-22 and F-35? Oh brother, you need to get out more often....

Fourth, thank you for your wish. Vietnam would always get better in one way or another. Even if some Chinese walked in and call us traitors or try to lecture Vietnam about arrogance and shit, we never bother too much about them anyway. GLHF.

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## TOTUU

Aqsuperman said:


> Again, ARE. YOU. FCKING. SERIOUS?
> 
> First, you open your comment about Vietnam "betray" China and then China has to kill the traitor. Why the hell that you think Vietnam "betray" China when China back a genocide regime like Khmer Rouge that massacre Vietnam civilian? Is that what Chinese call help? All of your babbling about history and shit fail to answer key questions: Why China support Khmer Rouge to kill Vietnamese? Why China attacked Vietnam in 1979 and demanded Vietnam to withdraw from Cambodia when dozens of thousands of Cambodian and Vietnamese are killed daily by Khmer Rouge? China only helped Vietnam because they wanted to keep the US distracted and away from the Taiwan issue. In term of betrayal, I dare say the Soviet would have lovely opinions about China action in the 1962 border war.
> 
> Second, I never said ordinary Chinese comment make me unhappy. I said the presence of a giant Chinese asshole is a proof that no matter where you go, Chinese arrogance far surpass Vietnamese counterpart. No Chinese ever care about Vietnam? Hah, then would you explain the action of TerranMarine? He got his *** banned because he can't keep his arrogance from exploding inside a Vietnamese thread. He searched out all the tabloid articles that suit his ego and spam it everywhere he can. Go back a couple page to see the action of your fellow countryman. Official media? We both know official media is shit, the more radical comment mostly come from social media.
> 
> Third, Chinese arms for Vietnam? That is such a good joke I can't stop laughing. Sure, Gepard is weak, US carrier is weak, Japan submarine is weak, everything is weak and Chinese stuff would beat everything. Good luck with that kind of thought. F-22 and F-35? Oh brother, you need to get out more often....
> 
> Fourth, thank you for your wish. Vietnam would always get better in one way or another. Even if some Chinese walked in and call us traitors or try to lecture Vietnam about arrogance and shit, we never bother too much about them anyway. GLHF.


 China back a genocide regime ,what a joke , your happy is OK ! china help you , when betray also can punish .
1962 is Soviet To invade our territory . The Soviet union did not withdraw its troops from China until 1955, and demanded a military base in China . Does China have troops in Vietnam or have military bases in Vietnam.

I never said ordinary Chinese comment make me unhappy . I'm just using the word (unhappy) to express your statement . OK ! *English is not my language, there is ambiguity, you ignore it.*
There are few people care about Vietnam, not mean no one ! do you understand .
in fact The Vietnamese commentary and the news were so full of hatred and distortion that it angered both the Vietnamese and the Chinese . Include your comments .
Chinese arms for Vietnam? *You misunderstand*, *or my English is wrong,* I mean to let you Vietnam to produce for yourself .
about europe \ russia or japan weapon , yes , We now think they're too weak, maybe you think it's arrogant, ridiculous, but that's what we think . They are moving too slowly now , Without money, people are too lazy . 
they no have new generation of fighters and warships . It's very arrogant ， sorry .
* [ *Vietnam need at least* 20 destroyers* and *3 aircraft carriers ,* 200 F22 aircraft , 500 F35 aircraft , Military expenditure spending is at least *$80 billion* *.] It's not a joke. I'm serious . *
Basically the Chinese don't mention Vietnam, and you don't care about what we call traitors . If the Chinese are concerned about Vietnam, that's not good for Vietnam .
Though you go and preach your genocide, proclaim your hatred and anguish . As long as you're happy.
I still have to say good luck to Vietnam. -----------------*The comments above are all translated by Google. There are many wrong places. Please don't mind the mistakes.*


----------



## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> Looks like (armament, equipment, uniform etc.) some of these guys are from police special forces.
> 
> Yeah, I'm still looking through.
> I guess it's fair before starting to be involved in discussions (despite I'm well-read about the issue).
> 
> If you specify what exactly, I will provide, for sure.
> Cuz there are tons of information in russian language segment of the web.


Can you translate some highlights and post here? Would be interesting for some readers who follow the development of Vietnam military.

Personally I am interested of when VN would be able to build submarine and destroyer


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## Titikaka

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> how many time China has paid "a little visit" to Vietnam ???? vietnam north is 1000 years is china , visit ? in fact in history , when china weak , Vietnam attacks China too . How did you get to the south of Vietnam ?
> On the other hand, for a thousand years, China and Vietnam have how many years in war and how many years in peace. Then we can count the war and peace between Vietnam and other neighboring countries for a thousand years, as well as changes in the territorial boundaries . In this millennium, the territory of Vietnam has increased or decreased.
> Do you think Vietnam's northern border has not changed for more than 1,000 years because of Vietnam?
> why Vietnam's southern border expanding south for a thousand years ? history ,now is tool ,and in history ,it is not hate each other , There are many Kings ,it is like Civil war of region .
> China's aid to Vietnam is not pure ? What do you want to be pure? You take a pure example. others help you, you must say that others are not pure. LOL . Give me an example of Vietnam's pure aid. Let me see if it's pure or not . .
> 
> You say a Chinese comment makes you unhappy, then please see why?
> like me , Every time I see news and comments from Vietnam, I have to hate Vietnam . Although I am a Chinese who likes Vietnam .
> 
> News reports and comments from Vietnam have angered the Chinese. If you disagree, please search trung quoc on youtube \ google ! And you can search 越南 （Vietnam ，Chinese ）. You compare .
> Almost no Chinese people care about Vietnam , hate vietnam Almost None . But Vietnamese comments and reports have angered some Chinese. In fact, many Chinese hate Vietnam because of Vietnamese news and commentary.
> 
> The Vietnamese hated China , it is OK , We don't care , Chinese understand. But don't overdo it.
> 
> The Vietnamese can concentrate on development, and then be strong enough to fight China. But there really is no need to smear or promote hatred of China .
> 
> We don't care about Vietnamese warships and troops . Now Vietnam's military is moving too slowly . I hope your military progress faster .
> 
> * Two brand new Gepard 3.9ships * , It's not enough , Gepard , too weak . I personally think Vietnam needs to get the attention of the Chinese, at least two aircraft carriers . Produce as much as you can , don't buy other country goods ,Europe and Russia's warships are not good , they no money now ,so their many warship Technology is too slow . If you can, you can buy 5 - 10 American zumwalt-class destroyers .
> 
> Vietnam compete with china for the island, need at least* 20 destroyers* and *3 aircraft carriers ,* 200 F22 aircraft , 500 F35 aircraft , Military expenditure spending is at least *$80 billion* .
> 
> You might think that this is arrogance, that the Chinese don't care about Vietnam and look down on Vietnam.Maybe you are right, but the Chinese really don't care much about other countries, even the United States , We are more focused on our own development, focusing on technology and economics .If you don't believe it, you can see what the official media in China are reporting .
> 
> In the end, I want to say good luck to Vietnam, just like most Chinese people I hope Vietnam is getting better and better .
> Of course, the two countries should fight when they need fight.


Keep calm and see the truth. You forgot about the helps from USSR for China. So you think the Guandong (Japanese army) in Qingdao could surrendered Chinese force in WW2? USSR helped you so much after you got independent so see what these thing they got in 1969. Dont mention to Japanese who give you more than 200 billion USD (ODA) from 1960 to now to help you get second position in the world about economy. Next to the American, forgot the opening economy you got from the visit of American in 1980s??


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## TOTUU

Titikaka said:


> Keep calm and see the truth. You forgot about the helps from USSR for China. So you think the Guandong (Japanese army) in Qingdao could surrendered Chinese force in WW2? USSR helped you so much after you got independent so see what these thing they got in 1969. Dont mention to Japanese who give you more than 200 billion USD (ODA) from 1960 to now to help you get second position in the world about economy. Next to the American, forgot the opening economy you got from the visit of American in 1980s??


 We won't forget anything, good or bad. 

At the same time, we will not exaggerate the role of others and undermine our efforts . At the same time, I also want to say that Soviet aid we paid for the money and minerals , Japan's ODA is a loan that is not a bailout, is to pay back, and it has to buy something from Japan, and the ODA we also have ,and bigger than jap , We won't let anyone thank us because it's a loan, not a bailout. it is business behaviour .

USA ? Do you know anything about business? We offer a lot of cheap products and sacrifice our environment. Do they need to thank us? And do you think this is China's unilateral benefit? Without China's support, the United States could be the world's sole superpower , Most simply, without China's support, the United States could sanction Russia, Iran and north Korea , The dollar can be so easily pressed against the euro .
JAP ? Even Japan gives us $10 trillion, we won't be grateful! More than 50 years of war ,We have compensated our national revenue for decades. only In 1931- 1945, 35 million people were killed.

If it were you, would you forgive this ----a country invade your couuntry for 50 years ,your country's People killed 10% people , and pay for decades of your country 's income. then this country To borrow $2 billion to your country, and you have to use this money buy the products of that country. Would you thank that country?
Read some propaganda and accuse china forgetting . what is a joke .


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## Titikaka

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> China back a genocide regime ,what a joke , your happy is OK ! china help you , when betray also can punish .
> 1962 is Soviet To invade our territory . The Soviet union did not withdraw its troops from China until 1955, and demanded a military base in China . Does China have troops in Vietnam or have military bases in Vietnam.
> 
> I never said ordinary Chinese comment make me unhappy . I'm just using the word (unhappy) to express your statement . OK ! *English is not my language, there is ambiguity, you ignore it.*
> There are few people care about Vietnam, not mean no one ! do you understand .
> in fact The Vietnamese commentary and the news were so full of hatred and distortion that it angered both the Vietnamese and the Chinese . Include your comments .
> Chinese arms for Vietnam? *You misunderstand*, *or my English is wrong,* I mean to let you Vietnam to produce for yourself .
> about europe \ russia or japan weapon , yes , We now think they're too weak, maybe you think it's arrogant, ridiculous, but that's what we think . They are moving too slowly now , Without money, people are too lazy .
> they no have new generation of fighters and warships . It's very arrogant ， sorry .
> * [ *Vietnam need at least* 20 destroyers* and *3 aircraft carriers ,* 200 F22 aircraft , 500 F35 aircraft , Military expenditure spending is at least *$80 billion* *.] It's not a joke. I'm serious . *
> Basically the Chinese don't mention Vietnam, and you don't care about what we call traitors . If the Chinese are concerned about Vietnam, that's not good for Vietnam .
> Though you go and preach your genocide, proclaim your hatred and anguish . As long as you're happy.
> I still have to say good luck to Vietnam. -----------------*The comments above are all translated by Google. There are many wrong places. Please don't mind the mistakes.*


China obviously backed up Khmer Rouge. I already read a comment of a Chinese expert who in Cambodia to help Khmer Rogue at that time. I have no enough post to post link in here. But he said he saw Khmer Rouge soldier took Chinese-Cambodian and they required the help from him but He did not do anything.



BOMB OF LOVE said:


> We won't forget anything, good or bad.
> 
> At the same time, we will not exaggerate the role of others and undermine our efforts . At the same time, I also want to say that Soviet aid we paid for the money and minerals , Japan's ODA is a loan that is not a bailout, is to pay back, and it has to buy something from Japan, and the ODA we also have ,and bigger than jap , We won't let anyone thank us because it's a loan, not a bailout. it is business behaviour .
> 
> USA ? Do you know anything about business? We offer a lot of cheap products and sacrifice our environment. Do they need to thank us? And do you think this is China's unilateral benefit? Without China's support, the United States could be the world's sole superpower , Most simply, without China's support, the United States could sanction Russia, Iran and north Korea , The dollar can be so easily pressed against the euro .
> JAP ? Even Japan gives us $10 trillion, we won't be grateful! More than 50 years of war ,We have compensated our national revenue for decades. only In 1931- 1945, 35 million people were killed.
> 
> If it were you, would you forgive this ----a country invade your couuntry for 50 years ,your country's People killed 10% people , and pay for decades of your country 's income. then this country To borrow $2 billion to your country, and you have to use this money buy the products of that country. Would you thank that country?
> Read some propaganda and accuse china forgetting . what is a joke .



But you are the first person who accuse Vietnam in here in while China attacked Vietnam, not Vietnam attacked China. Yes Japanese's ODA is a loan so why you still got the loan from Japan when everyday you said they are this, they are that? You borrow mony from friends but they give money for that, Is it not the help from friends to you? You can give all reason to prove you are good and accused someone are not, I see you are trying to be hypocrite, Even when you said Japan kill 35 million your people, why you need to be grateful, we also can said: Chinese kill Vientamese people in Ming dynasty, why they need to thank to China in VN war. So ridiculous in your logic.

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## TOTUU

Titikaka said:


> China obviously backed up Khmer Rouge. I already read a comment of a Chinese expert who in Cambodia to help Khmer Rogue at that time. I have no enough post to post link in here. But he said he saw Khmer Rouge soldier took Chinese-Cambodian and they required the help from him but He did not do anything.


 
China does not support your government. What do you support ,Or use the word " recognition "?
What about the government of your country, that is your home thing , not other countries, and no other country has the right to interfere ? China supports Cambodia's government and does not support the corruption and cruelty of the government. OK !

Let foreigners solve their own internal affairs . The country will never have peace, as it is now Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan .
The government is not good enough to overthrow it . This is a national right . Not the right of foreigners.
If you can't overthrow your government, it only mean that ---- anti-government people << support the government people .

What's wrong with China attack vietnam, Vietnam doesn't mess with China, can China beat him? China has also helped it . You think Vietnam hasn't invaded China? Vietnamese territory has been expanding, you don't know.

accuse Vietnam ?
Vietnam is everywhere blackening China, we are all unconcerned, reply here is not ok? Go and count the news and comments from the Vietnamese. Then you can count the Chinese news and comments .
Are we qualified? We are a poor country, and we are doing everything we can to help Vietnam save money . They say our help is not pure enough. You can cite a pure example for Vietnam! Yes, helping Vietnam is helping ourselves ,But because of that, help is not a help ?what is a joke .


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## Viet

Titikaka said:


> China obviously backed up Khmer Rouge. I already read a comment of a Chinese expert who in Cambodia to help Khmer Rogue at that time. I have no enough post to post link in here. But he said he saw Khmer Rouge soldier took Chinese-Cambodian and they required the help from him but He did not do anything.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are the first person who accuse Vietnam in here in while China attacked Vietnam, not Vietnam attacked China. Yes Japanese's ODA is a loan so why you still got the loan from Japan when everyday you said they are this, they are that? You borrow mony from friends but they give money for that, Is it not the help from friends to you? You can give all reason to prove you are good and accused someone are not, I see you are trying to be hypocrite, Even when you said Japan kill 35 million your people, why you need to be grateful, we also can said: Chinese kill Vientamese people in Ming dynasty, why they need to thank to China in VN war. So ridiculous in your logic.


We once helped the Chinese in their military campaign against their enemies in the northern front during the Ming. Ok that’s a rare exception. Usually peace is ensured if we have an edge or overhand over the Chinese army for example as seen during the Le. The peace period lasted for 300 years.

If the Chinese feel our weakness, they will attack using every excuses: we don’t pay tribute. We betray them. We mistreat the Hoa. We attack their ally the Khmer. We miss to congrat the Emperor on his birthday...

Or we fail to send gifts to the Emperors concubines.

Peace and prosperity can be garantined by overwhelming firepower.


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## Serge2018

Aqsuperman said:


> That is an Isreal made APC, RAM - 2000. CSCĐ, or Mobile Force, is more or less to a heavily armed police force for special operation though you could see them dealing with common crimes as well.



Yeah, RAM. This version is just a little bit heavier, for primar fire support of police operations.

Thank you!



Aqsuperman said:


> Oh and i have some questions, mainly relate to the Vietnam submarine training program. I believed beforeKilo 636, Soviet and later Russia did provive submarine traning to Vietnam. Do you have any picture or infomation on that subject?



I've discovered this issue some time ago and found out that there is information shortage towards the whole process (except official information). As I know, crews were prepared paralelly with the process of submarines' building (perhaps in Sankt-Peterburg). The contract - signed in December 2009 - also included building of the Training Center in Viet Nam (for the Vietnamese submariners; under plan of the company "Aurora" which have its representative office in Nha Trang) and all necessary infrastructure at Cam Ranh. Due to russian official propagandistic newspaper, since October 2013, 54 submariners started 12-month preparation course in India at "Satavakhana" military school ().

There is also known that in accordance with the contract at least 160 torpedos had been acquired (80 pcs. 53-65KE and 80 pcs. TE-2). Exact amount of delivered 3M14E and 3M54E is unknown (may be the Vietnamese journalists know?). Total cost of the contract is estimated around 4 bln. USD.



Viet said:


> Can you translate some highlights and post here? Would be interesting for some readers who follow the development of Vietnam military.
> 
> Personally I am interested of when VN would be able to build submarine and destroyer



No problem!

I guess, Viet Nam is not ready yet to build its own submarines (except mini submarines), and I'm not sure that you really need destroyers - this kind of battle ship is for ocean.

Looks like - this is my private opinion - you need at least six frigates (pr.11661E "Gepard-3.9" is corvette, good one, but not frigate) and up to 18 corvettes.

There was one sarcastic article in the russian media about "the first Vietnamese submarine", but I think you had saw it earlier (page 47 of the thread).

And I'd like to say that since 2003 the military build-up of Vietnam has been impressing. You have done a great job!

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## Viet

a Vietnamese company buys two Bell 505 Jet Range X helicopters.







The US apparently wants to sell their high priced F35 stealth fighter to Vietnam as well, as part of “Buy American” campaign. "They will be able to use our equipment for maritime domain awareness, for maritime security ... that’s important for them," Kaidanow said, according to the Associated Press. "Our hope is [Vietnam] will consider American companies (not only) in defense but in other sectors as well."







The U.S. recently transferred a Coast Guard Cutter as well as several Boeing Insitu ScanEagle unmanned aerial vehicles for maritime surveillance to Vietnam.


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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> Yeah, RAM. This version is just a little bit heavier, for primar fire support of police operations.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> I've discovered this issue some time ago and found out that there is information shortage towards the whole process (except official information). As I know, crews were prepared paralelly with the process of submarines' building (perhaps in Sankt-Peterburg). The contract - signed in December 2009 - also included building of the Training Center in Viet Nam (for the Vietnamese submariners; under plan of the company "Aurora" which have its representative office in Nha Trang) and all necessary infrastructure at Cam Ranh. Due to russian official propagandistic newspaper, since October 2013, 54 submariners started 12-month preparation course in India at "Satavakhana" military school ().
> 
> There is also known that in accordance with the contract at least 160 torpedos had been acquired (80 pcs. 53-65KE and 80 pcs. TE-2). Exact amount of delivered 3M14E and 3M54E is unknown (may be the Vietnamese journalists know?). Total cost of the contract is estimated around 4 bln. USD.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem!
> 
> I guess, Viet Nam is not ready yet to build its own submarines (except mini submarines), and I'm not sure that you really need destroyers - this kind of battle ship is for ocean.
> 
> Looks like - this is my private opinion - you need at least six frigates (pr.11661E "Gepard-3.9" is corvette, good one, but not frigate) and up to 18 corvettes.
> 
> There was one sarcastic article in the russian media about "the first Vietnamese submarine", but I think you had saw it earlier (page 47 of the thread).
> 
> And I'd like to say that since 2003 the military build-up of Vietnam has been impressing. You have done a great job!


South Korea, a country that is smaller in population and land mass, produces fighter jets, submarines and destroyers. I don’t see any reason why we don’t follow. But you are right VN needs more firepower at sea. Mighty frigates are a good start.

I have hoped Russia will assist.


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## warzone

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> China does not support your government. What do you support ,Or use the word " recognition "?
> What about the government of your country, that is your home thing , not other countries, and no other country has the right to interfere ? China supports Cambodia's government and does not support the corruption and cruelty of the government. OK !
> 
> Let foreigners solve their own internal affairs . The country will never have peace, as it is now Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan .
> The government is not good enough to overthrow it . This is a national right . Not the right of foreigners.
> If you can't overthrow your government, it only mean that ---- anti-government people << support the government people .
> 
> What's wrong with China attack vietnam, Vietnam doesn't mess with China, can China beat him? China has also helped it . You think Vietnam hasn't invaded China? Vietnamese territory has been expanding, you don't know.
> 
> accuse Vietnam ?
> Vietnam is everywhere blackening China, we are all unconcerned, reply here is not ok? Go and count the news and comments from the Vietnamese. Then you can count the Chinese news and comments .
> Are we qualified? We are a poor country, and we are doing everything we can to help Vietnam save money . They say our help is not pure enough. You can cite a pure example for Vietnam! Yes, helping Vietnam is helping ourselves ,But because of that, help is not a help ?what is a joke .



Are you another humorist in this forum? We can all see how China is a great friend to others nations, just look how China is treating the African nations for example. China give 1 $ but take back 2$... Taking all the resources and treat them like satellite nations. China is just as bad as any other superpowers. Your friend President Duarte of Philippines probably took some bride to be friendly with China. Philippines political system is notoriously corrupted, every former presidents are know to take huge bribes (example: Number uno Ferdinand Marcos) 

Let me remind you that China is over 20 times the size in territorial, population and economy compare to VN.... VN attacking China....Stop reading the PLA BMNA (BIG Mouth No Action) news. VN did some cross border commando attacks during the 1979 conflict, but it was small tactical and sabotage attacks inside China.... Invasions always come from the northern border of VN.... We can't beat China, so VN go south and destroyed all the southern kingdoms to annexed the lands.

Yeah you are right, VN should get aircraft carriers and big destroyers so that PLA would have the biggest slow moving targets to sink in the South China Sea... Your big proud PLA aircrafts carriers will sink in the first days of conflict whatever it's with US, Japan or VN. You don't need to be a genius to know that.

What other VNese said in the internet doesn't represent the majority of the population. You cannot just reading comments from a few people and then blaming on everyone else, that's not really smart. Big mouths are always louder in the internet and weak guys are always acting tough, you should know that by now.

You saying China didn't support Khmer Rouge is grotesque. Thousands of PLA military advisors in Cambodia, military weaponry and uniforms in the Khmer Rouge, PLA invasion in 1979 was coincide few weeks after the VPA invasion of Cambodia in december 1978. I suggest you again to stop reading the PLA BMNA (BIG Mouth No Action) news.









Those Khmer Rouge uniforms doesn't look like the PLA uniform, right?


----------



## TOTUU

warzone said:


> Are you another humorist in this forum? We can all see how China is a great friend to others nations, just look how China is treating the African nations for example. China give 1 $ but take back 2$... Taking all the resources and treat them like satellite nations. China is just as bad as any other superpowers. Your friend President Duarte of Philippines probably took some bride to be friendly with China. Philippines political system is notoriously corrupted, every former presidents are know to take huge bribes (example: Number uno Ferdinand Marcos)
> 
> Let me remind you that China is over 20 times the size in territorial, population and economy compare to VN.... VN attacking China....Stop reading the PLA BMNA (BIG Mouth No Action) news. VN did some cross border commando attacks during the 1979 conflict, but it was small tactical and sabotage attacks inside China.... Invasions always come from the northern border of VN.... We can't beat China, so VN go south and destroyed all the southern kingdoms to annexed the lands.
> 
> Yeah you are right, VN should get aircraft carriers and big destroyers so that PLA would have the biggest slow moving targets to sink in the South China Sea... Your big proud PLA aircrafts carriers will sink in the first days of conflict whatever it's with US, Japan or VN. You don't need to be a genius to know that.
> 
> What other VNese said in the internet doesn't represent the majority of the population. You cannot just reading comments from a few people and then blaming on everyone else, that's not really smart. Big mouths are always louder in the internet and weak guys are always acting tough, you should know that by now.
> 
> You saying China didn't support Khmer Rouge is grotesque. Thousands of PLA military advisors in Cambodia, military weaponry and uniforms in the Khmer Rouge, PLA invasion in 1979 was coincide few weeks after the VPA invasion of Cambodia in december 1978. I suggest you again to stop reading the PLA BMNA (BIG Mouth No Action) news.
> View attachment 452517
> View attachment 452518
> 
> 
> 
> Those Khmer Rouge uniforms doesn't look like the PLA uniform, right?


LOL , humorist , I think Vietnam realy humorist . vinetnam's comment ----*China give 1 $ but take back 2$! LOL ,WHY YOU WRITE BACK 20$ ...
Stop reading the PLA BMNA (BIG Mouth No Action) news.----SORRY ,PLA ,It's basically training news.
even no news about Vietnam. about 1979 is none . we are not vietnam .
next , you say ---so VN go south and destroyed all the southern kingdoms to annexed the lands. LOL
why VN aggression? If China is not strong, Vietnam will invade China. In your opinion, China should destroy the kingdom of Vietnam.As for your comments, I personally hope china to help Cambodia go Nouth and destroyed all the Nouthern kingdoms to annexed/reoccupy the lands .


you say ----You saying China didn't support Khmer Rouge is grotesque. lol, china support Khmer Rouge ,it is right , like support vienam gov .  That doesn't mean we support their corruption.Just as the Vietnamese government had plundered and killed Chinese in Vietnam.


you say ----You cannot just reading comments from a few people and then blaming on everyone else, that's not really smart ..... sorry , 
Vietnam's media \news\comments, I see too much, what exactly is it, you understand it .


china media\news\comments ,you can search in chinese . Vietnam's media \news\comments, It has angered the Chinese people, although very few people now , but will gradually become more . Vietnam's media \news\comments win the world , they make vietnam hate china , then make china hate vietnam .Let's see who wins in the end . guancha.cn/china main media ,pla official media 81.cn/ , look for vietnam !!


Oh, I forgot to say it. Vietnam has a low presence in Chinese news media commentary. You can believe anything anti-chinese, as long as you are happy ....Like you said---feneration \resources plunderer  \Invasion 1000 years ------Vietnam's happy is important .

at last ,big mouth is chinese people, like me , not my gov and pla ...your vietnam big mouth is your people and media ,These two are the same ,But the difference is that we can afford the consequences. You can't afford it .1979 , Our troops take turns to play game , as they exercise . 

I think the Chinese have the same thing as the Vietnamese . we support Vietnam to beat China too.

add say --- corrupted ----every country have corrupt , people and government all have corrupt .Every country has a different view of corruption. 
We Chinese frankly can't stand western corruption, including corruption in Vietnam.Have many corrupt in China, but we are still doing things.But corruption in the west country and Vietnam is even not work . China's civil servants can do something in one day, they can't finish it in three days.*


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## warzone

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> LOL , humorist , I think Vietnam realy humorist . vinetnam's comment ----*China give 1 $ but take back 2$! LOL ,WHY YOU WRITE BACK 20$ ...
> Stop reading the PLA BMNA (BIG Mouth No Action) news.----SORRY ,PLA ,It's basically training news.
> even no news about Vietnam. about 1979 is none . we are not vietnam .
> next , you say ---so VN go south and destroyed all the southern kingdoms to annexed the lands. LOL
> why VN aggression? If China is not strong, Vietnam will invade China. In your opinion, China should destroy the kingdom of Vietnam.As for your comments, I personally hope china to help Cambodia go Nouth and destroyed all the Nouthern kingdoms to annexed/reoccupy the lands .
> 
> 
> you say ----You saying China didn't support Khmer Rouge is grotesque. lol, china support Khmer Rouge ,it is right , like support vienam gov .  That doesn't mean we support their corruption.Just as the Vietnamese government had plundered and killed Chinese in Vietnam.
> 
> 
> you say ----You cannot just reading comments from a few people and then blaming on everyone else, that's not really smart ..... sorry ,
> Vietnam's media \news\comments, I see too much, what exactly is it, you understand it .
> 
> 
> china media\news\comments ,you can search in chinese . Vietnam's media \news\comments, It has angered the Chinese people, although very few people now , but will gradually become more . Vietnam's media \news\comments win the world , they make vietnam hate china , then make china hate vietnam .Let's see who wins in the end . guancha.cn/china main media ,pla official media 81.cn/ , look for vietnam !!
> 
> 
> Oh, I forgot to say it. Vietnam has a low presence in Chinese news media commentary. You can believe anything anti-chinese, as long as you are happy ....Like you said---feneration \resources plunderer  \Invasion 1000 years ------Vietnam's happy is important .
> 
> at last ,big mouth is chinese people, like me , not my gov and pla ...your vietnam big mouth is your people and media ,These two are the same ,But the difference is that we can afford the consequences. You can't afford it .1979 , Our troops take turns to play game , as they exercise .
> 
> I think the Chinese have the same thing as the Vietnamese . we support Vietnam to beat China too.
> 
> add say --- corrupted ----every country have corrupt , people and government all have corrupt .Every country has a different view of corruption.
> We Chinese frankly can't stand western corruption, including corruption in Vietnam.Have many corrupt in China, but we are still doing things.But corruption in the west country and Vietnam is even not work . China's civil servants can do something in one day, they can't finish it in three days.*



*Why wrote in bold your comment?* You want to talk loud like a tough guy and intimidating the people like PLA ?? Most the things you wrote are incoherent and too many contrary comments, you change your comments like you changing your diapers. You lack to many facts and knowledge to discuss anything serious with you....

Stop writing comments in this VN forum you are embarrassing yourself. You are the one (Chinese) who come in this forum (Vietnamese) and start saying provocative and negative comments. Please get out of this forum


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## TOTUU

warzone said:


> *Why wrote in bold your comment?* You want to talk loud like a tough guy and intimidating the people like PLA ?? Most the things you wrote are incoherent and too many contrary comments, you change your comments like you changing your diapers. You lack to many facts and knowledge to discuss anything serious with you....
> 
> Stop writing comments in this VN forum you are embarrassing yourself. You are the one (Chinese) who come in this forum (Vietnamese) and start saying provocative and negative comments. Please get out of this forum


you say ---You want to talk loud like a tough guy and intimidating the people like PLA ?? LOL, your happy is ok ! trust your trust ! just because my translation APP copy this ,became BOLD ,i lazy to change ....your vietnam , anything with in your brain to became bad .....so LOL .
you say china is invade ------you say your viet is ------------We can't beat China, so VN go south and destroyed all the southern kingdoms to annexed the lands.
you say ---China give 1 $ but take back 2$ ,
you say ----You are the one (Chinese) who come in this forum (Vietnamese) and start saying provocative and negative comments. Please get out of this forum .
viet is a judge ? one side Discredit China ,one side say my comment is provocative . so joke vietnam .
Who is the provocation? 781 pages , look my fist comment ! look your viet 's comment !
Vietnam So love to hate China ， fight China in front， don't in back 。
i'm waiting VN go Nouth and destroyed all the nouthern kingdoms --china to annexed the lands.


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## Viet

Recently a news site selects the National Anthem of Vietnam - " Tiến Quân Ca" (Song Of Marching Troops) as one of the most impressive national anthems. Because of the clear language expressed in the song.

(English translation)

*March to the Front!*

Armies of Vietnam, we go forward,

with the one will to save our Fatherland.

Our hurried steps are sounding on the long and arduous road.

Our flag, red with the blood of victory, bears the spirit of our country.

The distant rumbling of the guns mingles with our marching song.

The path to glory passes over the bodies of our Enemies.

Overcoming all hardships, together we build our resistance bases.

Ceaselessly for the people's cause we struggle,

Hastening to the battle field!

Forward! All together advancing!

Our Vietnam is strong eternal.

Soldiers of Vietnam, we go forward,

The gold star of our flag in the wind, leading our people, our native land, out of misery and suffering.

Let us join our efforts in the fight for the building of a new life.

Let us stand up and break our chains.

For too long have we swallowed our Hatred.

Let us keep ready for all sacrifices and our life will be radiant.

Ceaselessly for the people's cause we struggle,

Hastening to the battlefield!

Forward! All together advancing!

Our Vietnam is strong eternal.

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## Viet

Ground breaking for Hanwha Techwin Engines plants last September, producing aircraft engine parts for GE, Pratt & Whitney (P&W) and Rolls-Royce. Super fast progress. First factory will open end of April 2018, two other factories will be completed by 2022. Vietnam will likely produce parts of engines powering F-35 fighter jets as well.
























What is the most challenge in developing F-35 Stealth Fighter Jet?

It is the software that controls the planes. 8 million lines of software code – or more than 4 times the amount of the F-22 Raptor. the US software engineers have great difficulties to fix thousands of software code errors. So why not tap Vietnam? we have very good coder.

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## gtiger

Viet said:


> It is the software that controls the planes. 8 million lines of software code – or more than 4 times the amount of the F-22 Raptor. the US software engineers have great difficulties to fix thousands of software code errors. So why not tap Vietnam? we have very good coder.



Software developed for US weapon projects has to go through a very complex process that has security very high on the requirement checklist. While black box specification helps somewhat, it's still tough (if not impossible) for non-American programmers with little security clearance to bid for work on sensitive projects such as the F-35 program.

I'm not sure many Vietnamese software engineers would want to work on such projects, as the tools and know-hows do not apply well to normal commercial projects where arguably there are more opportunities. Many US software programmers working on fighter and transport plane software projects found that their skills don't translate well to works in hot companies like Google, Apple or Facebook.



Viet said:


> The US apparently wants to sell their high priced F35 stealth fighter to Vietnam as well, as part of “Buy American” campaign. "They will be able to use our equipment for maritime domain awareness, for maritime security ... that’s important for them," Kaidanow said, according to the Associated Press. "Our hope is [Vietnam] will consider American companies (not only) in defense but in other sectors as well."



The F-35s are simply too expensive for Vietnam. The Vietnamese ground forces need modernization as well. Wonders can be done with the cost of five F-35s. The estimated cost of $140 million apiece for the Air Force version would buy a lot of modern tanks or helicopter gunships.

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## Viet

gtiger said:


> Software developed for US weapon projects has to go through a very complex process that has security very high on the requirement checklist. While black box specification helps somewhat, it's still tough (if not impossible) for non-American programmers with little security clearance to bid for work on sensitive projects such as the F-35 program.t
> 
> I'm not sure many Vietnamese software engineers would want to work on such projects, as the tools and know-hows do not apply well to normal commercial projects where arguably there are more opportunities. Many US software programmers working on fighter and transport plane software projects found that their skills don't translate well to works in hot companies like Google, Apple or Facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> The F-35s are simply too expensive for Vietnam. The Vietnamese ground forces need modernization as well. Wonders can be done with the cost of five F-35s. The estimated cost of $140 million apiece for the Air Force version would buy a lot of modern tanks or helicopter gunships.


The latest price tag for F-35 is $80 million apiece with sinking tendency. If the US source parts from VN, the price would be much lower. Ok lower in theory. I know our aerospace is still at infancy. The Donald Trump administration funds the acquisition of UAV program Boeing ScanEagle for VN. We get almost for free.

But true, US weapons are expensive I expect we will just buy here and there a bit. Ok security concern is an issue.

a software coder in VN demands between 1,000 or 2,000 USD a month. Or a bit higher for high priced projects. Comparing to what you can earn in America and Europe up to 10,000 USD a month or even more that is dirty cheap.


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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> South Korea, a country that is smaller in population and land mass, produces fighter jets, submarines and destroyers. I don’t see any reason why we don’t follow. But you are right VN needs more firepower at sea. Mighty frigates are a good start.
> 
> I have hoped Russia will assist.



The reason is the gap in technologies, you know it very well. South Korea is the famous "Asian tiger" while Viet Nam is a developing country.



Viet said:


> The US apparently wants to sell their high priced F35 stealth fighter to Vietnam as well, as part of “Buy American” campaign. "They will be able to use our equipment for maritime domain awareness, for maritime security ... that’s important for them," Kaidanow said, to the Associated Press. "Our hope is [Vietnam] will consider American companies (not only) in defense but in other sectors as well."



But here is nothing about the will to sell F-35 to Vietnam. 



Viet said:


> The U.S. recently transferred a Coast Guard Cutter as well as several unmanned aerial vehicles for maritime surveillance to Vietnam.



The link is not available... Do you have a subscription?


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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> The reason is the gap in technologies, you know it very well. South Korea is the famous "Asian tiger" while Viet Nam is a developing country.
> 
> 
> 
> But here is nothing about the will to sell F-35 to Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> The link is not available... Do you have a subscription?


http://aviationweek.com/singapore-airshow-2018/top-us-diplomat-singapore-promote-buy-america

_The official also highlighted the growing security relationship with Vietnam following the 2016 lifting of a lethal weapons ban. The U.S. recently transferred a Coast Guard National Security Cutter to the Vietnamese as well as several Boeing Insitu ScanEagle unmanned aerial vehicles for maritime surveillance.

“We are encouraging them to look beyond the U.S. grant assistance but also diversifying away from some of their typical suppliers . . . like the Russians,” the official said. “That would one, give them more capability but, two, help strengthen our partnership.”_

https://www.defensenews.com/digital...xports-to-vietnam-decrease-russian-influence/

_During a phone call with reporters Monday, Kaidanow said the U.S. relationship with Vietnam is improving, and she spoke about the administration’s desire to see more defense contracts between the two nations.

“As they move forward, it’s completely up to them as a sovereign country, how they go about acquiring their defense systems,” she said. “Certainly our hope is that they will consider American companies not just, by the way, in the defense sector but in other sectors as well where our trade issues are important for them to consider.”_

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## Water Car Engineer

ASW Package for Vietnam and Myanmar


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## AViet

Water Car Engineer said:


> ASW Package for Vietnam and Myanmar



Vietnam will never buy your primitive weapons. Dream on.


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## Water Car Engineer

AViet said:


> Vietnam will never buy your primitive weapons. Dream on.


 
Already happened, bud.


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## AViet

In Indian media only. I've just tried to find the news in Vietnam media, but failed to find any.
And I do not trust Indian media, as usual. Some years ago, it barked about how India exports high tech products to Vietnam and imports raw materials from Vietnam, but in fact, it was vice versa according to official export-import data.


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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> The reason is the gap in technologies, you know it very well. South Korea is the famous "Asian tiger" while Viet Nam is a developing country.
> 
> 
> 
> But here is nothing about the will to sell F-35 to Vietnam.


The Korean war made South Korea poor, endless wars made VN even poorer. But no reason to look back, we work harder to catch up. Selling F35 to VN is my own conclusion


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## Farhan Bohra

AViet said:


> In Indian media only. I've just tried to find the news in Vietnam media, but failed to find any.
> And I do not trust Indian media, as usual. Some years ago, it barked about how India exports high tech products to Vietnam and imports raw materials from Vietnam, but in fact, it was vice versa according to official export-import data.


Vietnam importing raw material from India?

Which raw material Viet importing from India, when India herself importing raw materials from outside.


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## AViet

At that times, cotton was the biggest export items from India to VN. And cashew nut (raw material) have always been a big import item from India. But VN never export any raw material to India in big quantity as your media bragged.


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## warzone

Viet said:


> The Korean war made South Korea poor, endless wars made VN even poorer. But no reason to look back, we work harder to catch up. Selling F35 to VN is my own conclusion


 F35 are only for very close allies to the US only, anyway it will be too expensive for even a rich nation to buy and maintenance them (even with monetary help package). Canada get out of F35 because it was be too expensive for taxpayers and F18 Hornet is doing a decent good job for the price.

The US give donations first to the least offensive (or lethal) branch of VPA (which is the Coast guard....like open slowly a door to see reactions of everyone, then later move further up to other branches of VPA. The US already concluded that VN is the most reliable army to give a good fight and contain PLA ambition. Why USA have to fight China when you have a country like VN who is willing to fight? That's why they already drop Philippines out of that picture. Philippines army is notorious corrupted and incompetent (the military budget got big chunk lost by corruption every year). Just look at the battle of Marawi, it took them +5 months to kick out a few hundred lightly armed ISIS.

The next logic step will be no lethal donations like AWAC or transport planes or whatever for other VPA army branches. Then the lethal weaponry donations or cheap price will come like F16 or F18 or whatever. Personally I will love VN have F16 or F18 or even the A-10 Thunderbolt (soon-to-be-retire) or all of them, they are battle tested and reliable planes. VN have too many similar weaponry with PLA, which is not good because (like everyone know) PLA employ in mass number.

I will always remember 1-2 years ago, some people (mainly Chinese) in this forum laughing at the idea that VPA will get F-16 or US weaponry... Well it maybe a lot closer and VN will get for free or at cheap price... With US weaponry it will help VN to get a little bit more dangereous

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## Farhan Bohra

AViet said:


> At that times, cotton was the biggest export items from India to VN. And cashew nut (raw material) have always been a big import item from India. But VN never export any raw material to India in big quantity as your media bragged.



Thats all ?

I don't think any one bragging about India's import from Vietnam, or Indian export. 

It might be looking like this to you , but in reality it is not. 

A $5 billion dollar import in $400 billion look like what? 1.25%. 

I don't think anyone bragging. No one is going to brag about 1.25%.


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## Viet

US Embassador to Vietnam, Dan Kritenbrink, and his family members in traditional dress to Tet. cooking banh Chung included. 50 years ago, the Tet offensive became the turning point of the Vietnam war.


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Thats all ?
> 
> I don't think any one bragging about India's import from Vietnam, or Indian export.
> 
> It might be looking like this to you , but in reality it is not.
> 
> A $5 billion dollar import in $400 billion look like what? 1.25%.
> 
> I don't think anyone bragging. No one is going to brag about 1.25%.


Has India T54/T55 tanks in the inventory? India has large tank army, so Vietnam, I think both countries can cooperate in the field.

made in Vietnam new armor for T54/T55 tanks with 105 mm M68 cannon










the russians are late. did they want to deliver the T90 tanks end of 2017?






Merkava 4 looks much more modern than T90. Maybe we can acquire later?


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## Aqsuperman

Well, I can't believe I live long enough to see this scene

American M-16s in a Fallen Soldiers ceremony on CSB 8020, an ex American Hamilton cutter. I thought SKS or AK would be more appropriate in these occasions.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Has India T54/T55 tanks in the inventory? India has large tank army, so Vietnam, I think both countries can cooperate in the field.
> 
> made in Vietnam new armor for T54/T55 tanks with 105 mm M68 cannon
> 
> View attachment 453332
> 
> View attachment 453334
> 
> 
> the russians are late. did they want to deliver the T90 tanks end of 2017?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merkava 4 looks much more modern than T90. Maybe we can acquire later?



Yes T-55, T-62 and Centurion are in reserve and some in War Wastage Reserve.

We tried to send some T-55 to Afghanistan, but I don't know what happened to that. I am pretty much pissed off with Indian FP. 

Our most of FP is reactive instead of pro-active.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Yes T-55, T-62 and Centurion are in reserve and some in War Wastage Reserve.
> 
> We tried to send some T-55 to Afghanistan, but I don't know what happened to that. I am pretty much pissed off with Indian FP.
> 
> Our most of FP is reactive instead of pro-active.


there is a wide field in military industrial complex though where both countries can cooperate. India is much far ahead of Vietnam, be tanks or lets say building submarines. Aviet may think India is primitive in manufacturing, but it is not really the case.

ah a news: a recently issued Vietnamese government decree stipulates all foreign submarines must surface and hoist the country flag when crossing thru Vietnamese territorial waters.

Lets how can we enforce the rule with US nuclear submarines frequently crossing the South China sea or Japanese and Chinese submarines intruding our waters.


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## Viet

With the leaving of the last foreigner who assists Vietnam in operating the submarine fleet, all 6 Kilo attack submarines are combat ready, according to a Brigadier General of the Vietnamese Navy.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> With the leaving of the last foreigner who assists Vietnam in operating the submarine fleet, all 6 Kilo attack submarines are combat ready, according to a Brigadier General of the Vietnamese Navy.
> 
> View attachment 453529


Have long time no see you and @Carlosa . Are you ok?

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> Have long time no see you and @Carlosa . Are you ok?


hey sis I am ok, you too? I haven´t heard of Carlosa for a while too, I hope he is well.

Has anyone access to this report? 
*Vietnam's projected budget allocations on Naval Ships until 2024*
http://www.satprnews.com/2018/01/14/vietnam-defense-spends-on-naval-ships-2016-to-2024/

The report mentions destroyers!

my dream of Aegis like destroyers for the Navy may come true finally

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> there is a wide field in military industrial complex though where both countries can cooperate. India is much far ahead of Vietnam, be tanks or lets say building submarines. Aviet may think India is primitive in manufacturing, but it is not really the case.
> 
> ah a news: a recently issued Vietnamese government decree stipulates all foreign submarines must surface and hoist the country flag when crossing thru Vietnamese territorial waters.
> 
> Lets how can we enforce the rule with US nuclear submarines frequently crossing the South China sea or Japanese and Chinese submarines intruding our waters.


This is not about Indian primitive manufacturing base.
Manufacturing base is all right, and high end manufacturing base will come as India grow.

But about Indian Foreign policy, the FP is not like we showing confidence or we going pro active. There is lot of things India can do with Vietnam.

Which India can offer, Vietnamese leadership not going to ask specific things, maybe because of lack of confidence in relationship or some other technicalities. That is upto India to directly bring Vietnam into circle.

I am not talking about weapons only BTW. But economics too, and also nuclear realm. This is not like Vietnam going to ask nuclear umbrella from India.

That is upto India to come up with plans like NATO sharing program. Then there are cyber, aeronautics , space- very important sector in today's world. There are lot of sectors in which India Vietnam can cooperate. But we moving pretty much slow. 

I dont know the reason, even when China made her intentions clear, I dont know why we hesitating.

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## Viet

Su22 fighter jet as target exercise for AA guns







Su30 fighter aircraft can carry R77 air-to-air missile that is capable to follow and destroy enemy stealth fighter planes.















Repair & Maintenance Su22 jets


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> This is not about Indian primitive manufacturing base.
> Manufacturing base is all right, and high end manufacturing base will come as India grow.
> 
> But about Indian Foreign policy, the FP is not like we showing confidence or we going pro active. There is lot of things India can do with Vietnam.
> 
> Which India can offer, Vietnamese leadership not going to ask specific things, maybe because of lack of confidence in relationship or some other technicalities. That is upto India to directly bring Vietnam into circle.
> 
> I am not talking about weapons only BTW. But economics too, and also nuclear realm. This is not like Vietnam going to ask nuclear umbrella from India.
> 
> That is upto India to come up with plans like NATO sharing program. Then there are cyber, aeronautics , space- very important sector in today's world. There are lot of sectors in which India Vietnam can cooperate. But we moving pretty much slow.
> 
> I dont know the reason, even when China made her intentions clear, I dont know why we hesitating.


I think both India and Vietnam hesitate although there is little reason for. Strengthening military capacity industrial complex is good for both sides. India trains for example Vietnamese submariners and fighter pilots. 

We haven’t reached the point yet when we ask the United States or India for nuclear umbrella. I am not sure, either if we would reach a point in the future to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons. Some people may think going nuclear is difficult but you see in the case of North Korea, it is more difficult to make a good hybrid car than a nuclear bomb.

a Su30 with Mig21 (is it Su22?)


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> I think both India and Vietnam hesitate although there is little reason for. Strengthening military capacity industrial complex is good for both sides. India trains for example Vietnamese submariners and fighter pilots.
> 
> We haven’t reached the point yet when we ask the United States or India for nuclear umbrella. I am not sure, either if we would reach a point in the future to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons. Some people may think going nuclear is difficult but you see in the case of North Korea, it is more difficult to make a good hybrid car than a nuclear bomb.
> 
> a Su30 with Mig21 (is it Su22?)
> 
> View attachment 453674


I am not talking about Vietnam starting any nuclear program. Hell, no. 

Neither India going to transfer any nuclear technology because of there own commitments. What I am saying is India sharing nuclear weapons with Vietnam under a treaty. 

And neither that need to be in control of Vietnamese Army, that only need to be on soil of Vietnam where Indian Strategic Force Command totally control them. 

Thats how NATO sharing program works without violating NPT.

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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> I am not talking about Vietnam starting any nuclear program. Hell, no.
> 
> Neither India going to transfer any nuclear technology because of there own commitments. What I am saying is India sharing nuclear weapons with Vietnam under a treaty.
> 
> And neither that need to be in control of Vietnamese Army, that only need to be on soil of Vietnam where Indian Strategic Force Command totally control them.
> 
> Thats how NATO sharing program works without violating NPT.


That is also the way how Germany cooperates with the United States on nuclear weapons on German soil. Germany Tornado bombers are trained to drop nuclear bombs, although the US retains control on the red button. Thinking the unthinkable.

We have uranium reserves. We have atomic programs. We have atomic research facilities. Development nuclear weapons or even thermo nuclear weapons is just...simple physics. If we reach a certain threshold in R&D, everything is a piece of cake.

We won’t let our enemy to round us and bring us to the gas chambers.

Let’s hope the nuclear option is just a theoretical thought. We can defend our country by conventional means.

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## Viet

WORLD NEWS
FEBRUARY 14, 2018 / 6:59 PM / UPDATED 13 HOURS AGO
*Trump, Vietnam's Quang discuss Asia security: White House*
Reuters Staff





U.S. President Donald Trump holds a meeting with members of Congress at the White House in Washington, U.S., February 14, 2018. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump spoke with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang on Wednesday, discussing the regional security situation, growing bilateral defense ties and trade, the White House said in a statement.

The phone call came ahead of a trip to Da Nang in March by the U.S. aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, the first such visit by an American carrier since the Vietnam War and a dramatic sign of deepening military ties between the two countries.

Reporting by Susan Heavey; Writing by David AlexanderEditing by Chizu Nomiyama


----------



## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> WORLD NEWS
> FEBRUARY 14, 2018 / 6:59 PM / UPDATED 13 HOURS AGO
> *Trump, Vietnam's Quang discuss Asia security: White House*
> Reuters Staff
> 
> View attachment 453987
> 
> U.S. President Donald Trump holds a meeting with members of Congress at the White House in Washington, U.S., February 14, 2018. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump spoke with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang on Wednesday, discussing the regional security situation, growing bilateral defense ties and trade, the White House said in a statement.
> 
> The phone call came ahead of a trip to Da Nang in March by the U.S. aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, the first such visit by an American carrier since the Vietnam War and a dramatic sign of deepening military ties between the two countries.
> 
> Reporting by Susan Heavey; Writing by David AlexanderEditing by Chizu Nomiyama


Yes. Mr.Trump look quite friendly to VN. Hope he realize that support VN to unify Sub Mekong region is the best choice to maintain peace in Asia

VN got Soviet full support to unify Sub Mekong since 1979, now its time to have support from US.

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Yes. Mr.Trump look quite friendly to VN. Hope he realize that support VN to unify Sub Mekong region is the best choice to maintain peace in Asia
> 
> VN got Soviet full support to unify Sub Mekong since 1979, now its time to have support from US.


Ha ha don’t speak too loud bro, someone can run amok otherwise.

US carrier Carl Wilson will soon make port call at Da Nang. It is interesting to know that not only Cam Ranh but Da Nang have the capability to receive aircraft carriers.

Carl Wilson and other carriers including US naval fleets can buy freshwater, foods, fuel and many other stuffs when docking VN ports. So they can cruise the South China Sea days and nights 365 days a year. Win win scenario.








Ah interesting pictures inside a VN attack submarine

VN is officially classified as one of poorest in the region, but surprisingly possesses the largest submarine fleet. Moreover a single Kilo, aboard with more firepower than any Japanese submarine, can bring deaths and destruction to an entire enemy surface fleet.

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## Viet

Super fast progress. Hardly a year has passed since Vietnam signs agreement with Korean company LS MTron to manufacture agricultural machineries for domestic and export markets, with 50% localisation rate, Thaco now nears completion of the plant.











Interesting too. LS Mtron also manufactures track shoes for tanks. so why not as next step to sign a agreement.


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## Viet

Inside a factory that modernizes T54/55 tanks. Can´t wait to see first Made in Vietnam tanks.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Ha ha don’t speak too loud bro, someone can run amok otherwise.
> 
> US carrier Carl Wilson will soon make port call at Da Nang. It is interesting to know that not only Cam Ranh but Da Nang have the capability to receive aircraft carriers.
> 
> Carl Wilson and other carriers including US naval fleets can buy freshwater, foods, fuel and many other stuffs when docking VN ports. So they can cruise the South China Sea days and nights 365 days a year. Win win scenario.
> 
> View attachment 454057
> 
> 
> 
> Ah interesting pictures inside a VN attack submarine
> 
> VN is officially classified as one of poorest in the region, but surprisingly possesses the largest submarine fleet. Moreover a single Kilo, aboard with more firepower than any Japanese submarine, can bring deaths and destruction to an entire enemy surface fleet.
> 
> View attachment 454059
> View attachment 454060


Lastest news.Trump will rejoin TPP if he got more benefit.

VN can give much more benefit and even make Trump become the first Emperor of USA if Trump agree to support VN to unify sub Mekong region


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## Viet

_Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnam People’s Army Pham Ngoc Minh and a Vietnamese delegation are present at the Singapore Airshow 2018. Minh told the company about Vietnam’s interest in aircraft components, pilots’ training, and sea patrol aircraft. Hawker Pacific said it will help Vietnam improve local pilots’ capacity and set up a centre for aircraft maintenance services in Vietnam with a view to transferring the technology to the country._

https://en.vietnamplus.vn/vietnam-l...hnologies-at-asias-biggest-airshow/126213.vnp

Unclear what patrol aircraft VN wants to purchase, nor when Hawker Pacific will set up maintenance service and will transfer the technology. Hopefully nice birds like Business Jet Beechcraft included.


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## Viet

It´s reported the US Carrier Carl Vinson, at present anchoring at Manila, will make 5 day port call at Da Nang from 5-9 of March. This will be the first US carrier to dock at a port in Vietnam since 1964, the last one 'visited' Vietnam in May 1964, it was mined and sunk. Ok the war is over, everybody is welcome to visit Vietnam.






Somewhere in the South China Sea. a Kilo attack submarine conducts emergency surfacing, firing a torpedo.


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## Viet

_a news few months ago that went under radar._

*
Vietnam Deputy Defense Minister Makes Historic Carrier Visit*
Story Number: NNS171022-03 Release Date: 10/22/2017 3:47:00 PM

From Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group Public Affairs

PACIFIC OCEAN (NNS) -- Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN 70) hosted the highest ranking Vietnamese official to ever embark a U.S. aircraft carrier, Oct. 19.

Senior Lieutenant General Nguyen Chi Vinh, deputy minister of National Defense for the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and 11 other Vietnamese military officials embarked Carl Vinson while the ship conducted carrier qualifications off the coast of Southern California. The delegation interacted with crew members, ate lunch with strike group leaders and observed flight operations during the visit.

"This is a historic day and we are very honored to have you visit Carl Vinson," said Rear Adm. John Fuller, commander, Carrier Strike Group 1, as he met with Vinh. "We are very pleased to be a part of this maritime cooperation."

The strike group is comprised of an aircraft carrier, air wing, cruiser and several guided-missile destroyers. The strike group's flagship, Carl Vinson, consists of more than 3,000 personnel who operate and maintain the carrier. When deployed overseas, it operates with more than 60 aircraft and 2,000 additional Sailors from the air wing.

"I was very impressed with the professionalism and the working level of the whole Carl Vinson crew," said Vinh.

The strike group, which returned from a 6-month deployment to the Indo-Asia-Pacific region in June, provides a range of capabilities including promoting regional maritime partnerships, providing maritime security and maintaining freedom of navigation.

"I think that maritime cooperation is one of the areas where America and Vietnam can cooperate together," said Vinh.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=102974


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## xiao qi

Happy new year to all Vietnamese member on PDF. Hope we get more achieve in military and economy in the new year.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

xiao qi said:


> Happy new year to all Vietnamese member on PDF. Hope we get more achieve in military and economy in the new year.


*Chúc Mừng Năm Mới*

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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> _The official also highlighted the growing security relationship with Vietnam following the 2016 lifting of a lethal weapons ban. The U.S. recently transferred a Coast Guard National Security Cutter to the Vietnamese as well as several *Boeing Insitu ScanEagle* unmanned aerial vehicles for maritime surveillance.
> 
> “We are encouraging them to look beyond the U.S. grant assistance but also diversifying away from some of their typical suppliers . . . like the Russians,” the official said. “That would one, give them more capability but, two, help strengthen our partnership.”_



This link is another, here we can see information which was not available via the previous one. 

Last but not the least (crucial sentence):


> The U.S. could see agreements with Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore, a partner on *Lockheed Martin*’s F-35 program, coming out of the show, the official added.





Viet said:


> The Korean war made South Korea poor, endless wars made VN even poorer. But no reason to look back, we work harder to catch up. Selling F35 to VN is my own conclusion



Yes, there is no any doubt that Vietnam is doing very well on the way to improve military capabilities. And I really happy with you, Lads!

Who knows, maybe in 5-7 years acquisition of F-35 will be more realistic. As for now, Su-35 and Su-34 (Su-32) seems advisably, but require tons of bln. USD.



Viet said:


> Has anyone access to this report?
> *Vietnam's projected budget allocations on Naval Ships until 2024*



Unfortunately, no.

There is something like this if you try to follow an original link "OOPS! THAT PAGE CAN’T BE FOUND."

I'd like to say that this information has to be verified. Looks like these guys are preparing reports and "reports" about everything and everywhere.

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## Aqsuperman

A beautiful side view of Vietnam Coast Guard CSB 8020, an ex Hamilton-class cutter of US origin. Another Hamilton would come to Vietnam shore in March. These ships are among the most formidable Coast Guard vessels in the region in term of firepower, endurance and water displacement. Well, that is if you exclude our lovely Northern neighbor.

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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> This link is another, here we can see information which was not available via the previous one.
> 
> Last but not the least (crucial sentence):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there is no any doubt that Vietnam is doing very well on the way to improve military capabilities. And I really happy with you, Lads!
> 
> Who knows, maybe in 5-7 years acquisition of F-35 will be more realistic. As for now, Su-35 and Su-34 (Su-32) seems advisably, but require tons of bln. USD.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, no.
> 
> There is something like this if you try to follow an original link "OOPS! THAT PAGE CAN’T BE FOUND."
> 
> I'd like to say that this information has to be verified. Looks like these guys are preparing reports and "reports" about everything and everywhere.


The link is ok. The paper just costs $500 

https://www.marketresearch.com/Stra.../Vietnam-Defense-Spends-Naval-Ships-10410580/


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## Nilgiri

@Viet @Aqsuperman @xiao qi @Carlosa et al,

Remember to keep tagging me (Esp for the best articles you may want my input on in this thread). The forum glitches mean I don't get notifications much even though I am watching this thread.

Thanks  Go Vietnam!

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## Viva_Viet

Nilgiri said:


> @Viet @Aqsuperman @xiao qi @Carlosa et al,
> 
> Remember to keep tagging me (Esp for the best articles you may want my input on in this thread). The forum glitches mean I don't get notifications much even though I am watching this thread.
> 
> Thanks  Go Vietnam!


VN-India have big oil exploration project in SCS(east VN sea), so when can India sent warship to protect the project like what US is doing with VN-US Blue whale project, bro ??
---------------------------------
*US warship's Asian tour sends China a warning*

*


USS Stethem patrolled around Triton isls while VN-US drilling oil in block 118 Blue whale (lô 118 Cá Voi Xanh in picture)project in 2017 .*

*https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-warships-asian-tour-sends-china-a-warning.545033/*

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## Nilgiri

Viva_Viet said:


> VN-India have big oil exploration project in SCS(east VN sea), so when can India sent warship to protect the project like what US is doing with VN-US Blue whale project, bro ??
> ---------------------------------
> *US warship's Asian tour sends China a warning*
> 
> *
> 
> *
> *USS Stethem patrolled around Triton isls while VN-US drilling oil in block 118 Blue whale (lô 118 Cá Voi Xanh in picture)project in 2017 .*
> 
> *https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/us-warships-asian-tour-sends-china-a-warning.545033/*



I hope soon bro....the USN is very powerful/matured and large, we are not close, still expanding/developing etc.

Is there any talk to have a deployment of Indian naval assets in Cam Ranh?

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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> the modernization of the S-300PMU-2 Favorit systems is complete, which allows it to engage 36 targets flying as low as 10 meters off the ground at a range of 200km, and guide 72 missiles simultaneously.
> 
> the army has two batteries (12 launchers). the missiles can shoot down enemy aircraft, cruise missiles, as well as ballistic missiles and stealth fighter jets.



Do you have any detailed information related to this?
Asking because there was no any confirmation in the Russian language sources. 

NB: this post was written almost 4 years ago (p.82)

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## Viva_Viet

Nilgiri said:


> I hope soon bro....the USN is very powerful/matured and large, we are not close, still expanding/developing etc.
> 
> Is there any talk to have a deployment of Indian naval assets in Cam Ranh?


No news so far bro. Lets be strong to fight against any enemies

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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> Do you have any detailed information related to this?
> Asking because there was no any confirmation in the Russian language sources.
> 
> NB: this post was written almost 4 years ago (p.82)


oh that is a long while, can´t remember. I usually translated the news from different sources, mostly from Viet defence sites. Vietnam´s S300 missile system being upgraded with a more powerful long range acquistion S400 radar is reported.

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## Viet

"Vietnam" is the topic of this year meeting of Deutscher Ostasiatischer Verein, a business club founded by Hamburg businesspeople in 1900. Back then as tool of Germany´s imperialism hegemony in the Far East.

Two Vietnamese speakers are invited: Truong Gia Binh (CEO of FPT) and Philipp Rösler (Chairman of Hainan Foundation in New York, a secret club that controls the Chinese conglomerate HNA). Interesting: Rösler will speak on China. a country that today advances imperialism hegemony in the Far East.

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## Viet

Vietnam´s annual defence budget reportedly is about $6 billion in 2020. To put it perspective: the yearly increase of China defence budget is more than the entire military spendings of Vietnam and the Philippines put together.

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## Viet

Norfolk, US state of Virginia, February 21-22. Vietnamese Ambassador to the United States Pham Quang Vinh tours the US aircraft carrier George H.W. Bush.




































Visiting Memrorial of General MacArthur (Norfork, VA).

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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> oh that is a long while, can´t remember. I usually translated the news from different sources, mostly from Viet defence sites. Vietnam´s S300 missile system being upgraded with a more powerful long range acquistion S400 radar is reported.



Yeah, I saw it. We call this radar station "crocodile" for its funny form. 
But this is still S-300PMU-1. At least until there is no 48N6E2 acquired by Vietnam.

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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> Yeah, I saw it. We call this radar station "crocodile" for its funny form.
> But this is still S-300PMU-1. At least until there is no 48N6E2 acquired by Vietnam.


Vietnam air defense acquired this radar from Ukraine:

*3D ST68UM *

*



*


All data collected from radar stations across Vietnam are fed into centralized computer aided air defense system.

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## Viet

For the first time since end of Vietnam war, a US missile cruiser, USS Lake Champlain (CG-57), is on route along with carrier and destroyer to docking a Vietnam sea port.

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## Viet

*Vietnam War at top of ACT list of Australia's most significant historic events*

Canberra Times
Feb 24, 2018





Three of Canberra's Vietnam veterans meet at the Vietnam War memorial. From left: Jack Aaron, Peter Dinham and Greg Kennett. Photo: Karleen Minney


A helicopter flying overhead will transport Jack Aaron back to the conflict he fought in more than 50 years ago.

The Vietnam War, Australia's longest conflict until recently and the first to be televised in its living rooms, still resonates with the veteran now living in Canberra.

Long after the war ended with the evacuation of Americans and South Vietnamese people from Saigon, Australians and particularly Canberrans also regard it as among the most important historic chapters in their lifetimes.






The day Gough Whitlam was dismissed as prime minister, November 11, 1975. Photo: Fairfax Media

A new study by the Social Research Centre, an ANU subsidiary, shows that of the events people believed had the greatest effect on the country during their lives, the Vietnam War ranked first in the ACT and seventh across the nation.

Mr Aaron was 27 when he sailed to Vietnam with the navy, having to leave his wife to look after their young daughter.


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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> *Vietnam War at top of ACT list of Australia's most significant historic events*
> 
> Canberra Times
> Feb 24, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three of Canberra's Vietnam veterans meet at the Vietnam War memorial. From left: Jack Aaron, Peter Dinham and Greg Kennett. Photo: Karleen Minney
> 
> 
> A helicopter flying overhead will transport Jack Aaron back to the conflict he fought in more than 50 years ago.
> 
> The Vietnam War, Australia's longest conflict until recently and the first to be televised in its living rooms, still resonates with the veteran now living in Canberra.
> 
> Long after the war ended with the evacuation of Americans and South Vietnamese people from Saigon, Australians and particularly Canberrans also regard it as among the most important historic chapters in their lifetimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The day Gough Whitlam was dismissed as prime minister, November 11, 1975. Photo: Fairfax Media
> 
> A new study by the Social Research Centre, an ANU subsidiary, shows that of the events people believed had the greatest effect on the country during their lives, the Vietnam War ranked first in the ACT and seventh across the nation.
> 
> Mr Aaron was 27 when he sailed to Vietnam with the navy, having to leave his wife to look after their young daughter.



Near my house has one VC who fought nearly 10 years in jungle, One time, I asked him, who is best soldiers among American's ally in Vietnam. Immediately, he said: Austrailia's soldiers.

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## Nilgiri

xiao qi said:


> Near my house has one VC who fought nearly 10 years in jungle, One time, I asked him, who is best soldiers among American's ally in Vietnam. Immediately, he said: Austrailia's soldiers.



Yup I read somewhere, in VC ground unit impression, Americans were always quick to bring in air strikes etc, but Aussies prefer to stay in the jungle and do the close quarters/old school combat. Psychologically the latter had more impact on VC.

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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> Vietnam air defense acquired this radar from Ukraine:
> 
> *3D ST68UM*



At least three 36D6-M radar station (improved version of ST68UM (36D6)) were delivered. Very good choice, btw.



Viet said:


> All data collected from radar stations across Vietnam are fed into centralized computer aided air defense system.



Yeah, there is also (possibly) the Central command post of Air Force - Air Defence at these pictures .
We have very similar structures of our AFs. It makes the process of exploration much easier. 

Thanks a lot for nice photos!

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## Nilgiri

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ia-vietnam-president/articleshow/63098129.cms





_India continued to be among Vietnam’s top ten largest trading partners as the bilateral trade turnover has increased 16% per annum on average in the past decade. _

Defence is effective strategic area of cooperation with India: Vietnam President 

India-Vietnam strategic partnership is on upswing with President Tran Dai Quang visiting India little over a month after Vietnam’s PM visit to Delhi as India seeks to expand foothold in periphery of China. On a trip that will be marked by landmark MoUs in civil nuclear cooperation and port development President Quang told ET that Hanoi cherishes defence partnership with India. 

*Can you elaborate on growth in Indo-Vietnam defence partnership? *

Defense and security have been the effective strategic areas of cooperation. India has actively supported Vietnam in training, capacity building, defense technology transfer and defense credit. 

*What are Vietnam’s plan to expand economic ties with India? *

India continued to be among Vietnam’s top ten largest trading partners as the bilateral trade turnover has increased 16% per annum on average in the past decade. A large number of major Indian firms have established and expanded their footprints in Vietnam. 

India has given priority to Vietnam in development cooperation and education and training, and paid attention to promoting the bilateral cooperation in science and technology, information and communication, energy, oil and gas, agriculture and tourism. 

The cultural bonds and people-to-people exchanges between the two countries have also deepened. A large population of Vietnamese are watching Indian dramas and practicing yoga.

Apart from the bilateral frameworks, both countries have also forged close collaboration and effective mutual support at multilateral fora, especially at the United Nations. Vietnam welcomes India's efforts in and strong commitments to its "Act East" policy as well as to enhancing the connectivity and development cooperation with ASEAN. As the coordinator of ASEAN-India relations for 2015-2018, Viet Nam has worked closely with India to drive the India-ASEAN cooperation further forward. 

*What are the new areas that Vietnam is seeking Indian investments? *

Economic, investment and trade cooperation is one of the areas enjoying very high growth recently, especially since the two countries established the Strategic Partnership in 2007 and upgraded it to Comprehensive Strategic Partnership in 2016. India has become one of Vietnam’s top ten trading partners; our bilateral trade turnover has expanded by 16% per annum over the last 10 years. India also ranked 28th among the 126 countries and territories investing in Viet Nam in 2017 with 168 projects and total registered capital of $756 million. Many major Indian corporations, including TATA Group, ONGC and Essar are having sound business in Vietnam. 

Vietnam encourages more investments from India so that the latter will become more one of the top investors into Viet Nam and the target of US$ 15 billion in bilateral trade by 2020 can be realised. Renewable energy, manufacturing, information technology, infrastructure, to name a few are India’s strength for which Viet Nam has need. Both sides need to strengthen both bilateral and regional connectivity as well as infrastructural connectivity such as air links, roads and maritime links, and digital connectivity. 

Moreover, both sides need to establish business-to-business and business-to-government dialogue mechanisms, and provide forums for sharing interests, strategies and visions for development cooperation. Both countries’ businesses also need to play a more active role in promoting cooperation.

*What is your opinion on India’s Act East Policy? *

Apart from the bilateral frameworks, both countries have also forged close collaboration and effective mutual support at multilateral fora, especially at the United Nations. Vietnam welcomes India's efforts in and strong commitments to its "Act East" policy as well as to enhancing the connectivity and development cooperation with ASEAN. As the coordinator of ASEAN-India relations for 2015-2018, Viet Nam has worked closely with India to drive the India-ASEAN cooperation further forward. 

*India and Vietnam have just completed ten years of the Strategic Partnership and one year of the Comprehensive Strategic Partnership. What is your evaluation of India –Vietnam relations? *

Vietnam and India have enjoyed a long-standing traditional friendship with various historical and cultural similarities, which was established by President Ho Chi Minh and Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and nurtured by successive generations of leaders and people of both countries. The two nations have empathized and supported each other in their struggle for national independence in the past as well as in the national construction and development today. 

With trust and many shared interests, the two countries established the Strategic Partnership in July 2007 and upgraded it to Comprehensive Strategic Partnership in September 2016. This fine relationship has been concretized in various fields, especially the pillars of politics, national defense, security, economy, trade, investment, culture, science and technology, education and training and people-to-people exchange. 

The bilateral political relations have gone from strength to strength thanks to regular mutual visits at the high and lower levels through party-to-party, state-to-state, government-to-government, parliament-to-parliament as well as people-to-people exchanges. The General Secretary, President, Prime Minister and President of the National Assembly of Viet Nam have all visited India. Viet Nam also hosted the visits of the President, Vice President, Prime Minister, Speaker of the Lok Sabha and National Security Advisor of India. Practical commemorative activities have been hosted by both countries to celebrate the 45th anniversary of diplomatic relations and 10 years of the Strategic Partnership. 

Bilateral cooperation mechanisms, including the Action Plan 2017-2020, have been effectively implemented, thus facilitating the enhancement of the bilateral cooperation in various areas.

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## Viet

Made in Vietnam 12.7mm long range sniper rifle Osv96. Max Range 2,500m. somewhere on the battlefield in Syria.

















Police

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## Aqsuperman

A Vietnamese NC-212i with Indonesia tail flag. The first plane should arrive by June or so.

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## pr1v4t33r

Aqsuperman said:


> A Vietnamese NC-212i with Indonesia tail flag. The first plane should arrive by June or so.

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## Nike

pr1v4t33r said:


>



Sertification for autopilot and Navigation software by Airbus led the project stalled for a year

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> A Vietnamese NC-212i with Indonesia tail flag. The first plane should arrive by June or so.


I don’t understand why we don’t ask Airbus for licensing production? we can’t progress if just relying on imports.

Sure, assembling aircraft will be a thing, we never do before, but if we can start from somewhere, that will be a great thing.


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## Viet

Vietnam surface fleet, with a guided missile frigate firing Kh35 antiship missile

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## Viet

New Delhi on March 3. State visit to India. One of the agreements: Vietnam, India cooperate on nuclear energy.



























the visit aims first and foremost to deepen strategic trust between Vietnam and India.


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## Viet

*Former foe to host visit by first American aircraft carrier since the war*
The USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier—seen here in January in a U.S. Navy photo—is soon set to visit Vietnam, a former foe now embracing the U.S. as a counterbalance to China. MASS COMMUNICATION SPECIALIST 2ND CLASS SEAN M. CASTELLANO

By
Jake Maxwell Watts
March 2, 2018 8:00 a.m. ET







ABOARD THE USS CARL VINSON—A U.S. aircraft carrier will soon visit Vietnam, marking the highest point in the U.S.-Vietnam relationship in decades and a rare win for Washington as China expands its competing economic and military influence elsewhere in Southeast Asia.

Communist Vietnam is set to host the largest U.S. military presence on its soil since the 1970s when the USS Carl Vinson arrives in the coming days, the first postwar visit by a U.S. aircraft carrier.

The visit, arranged after a meeting in Vietnam between Presidents Donald Trump and Tran Dai Quang in November, signals their concern about China’s presence in the South China Sea, a sea lane where Beijing has built artificial islands with runways and missile shelters.

Attempts to resolve competing claims to the waterway through diplomacy and international law have been eroded by China’s warming relations with some countries. Most notable among those is the Philippines, which under President Rodrigo Duterte has set aside its dispute and befriended Beijing, winning billions of dollars in investment commitments and bruising its alliance with the U.S.





U.S. Secretary of Defense James Mattis, left, met Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the presidential palace in Hanoi in January. PHOTO: HOANG DINH NAM/AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE/GETTY IMAGES


But Vietnam, which fought a war with China in 1979 and has a 2,000-mile coastline along the South China Sea, has sought to improve ties with Washington. The U.S. lifted a decades-old embargo on arms sales to Vietnam in late 2016 and last year donated a Coast Guard ship to Hanoi, which has asked for 18.

Among other gestures of friendship, Washington has channeled funds into removal of wartime toxins, while Vietnam has welcomed American warships to a refurbished naval base used by U.S. forces during the Vietnam War.

Economic ties are flourishing, with two-way trade doubling in five years to more than $50 billion in 2017, according to data from both governments. The countries announced $12 billion in commercial agreements when Mr. Trump visited in November.

“The visit gives Vietnam a hedge against China at a time when Beijing is assertive in pressing its claims in the South China Sea,” said Murray Hiebert, a Southeast Asia expert at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.







Vietnam and the U.S. aren’t an obvious pairing. The ideology of the ruling Communist Party clashes with Washington’s embrace of capitalism, and Hanoi routinely imprisons its critics. In February, the State Department criticized the jailing of two political activists.

Vietnamese relations with China, meanwhile, have been strained. Anti-China riots rocked Vietnam in 2014 after Beijing moved an oil rig into disputed waters.

Several Southeast Asian countries share maritime disputes with China, which claims virtually the entire South China Sea. In the past year, China built more infrastructure on artificial islands in the disputed waters, including tunnels and radar installations, adding to runway and missile installations it completed earlier.






Vietnamese honor guards in navy uniforms march in Hanoi in 2016. PHOTO: KHAM/AFP/GETTY IMAGES


Vietnam has sought and failed to use regional forums like a biannual gathering of Southeast Asian leaders to pressure Beijing, one reason it has worked to upgrade relations with the U.S., said Carlyle Thayer, emeritus professor at the Australian Defence Force Academy in Canberra.

Hanoi’s foreign ministry didn’t respond to a request for comment. Tran Cong Truc, a former official who consults for the Vietnamese government on defense issues, said the Carl Vinson’s visit is part of a broader policy in Vietnam to improve relations with all countries, especially large powers.

Washington’s relationships in Southeast Asia, meanwhile, are being tested as China expands its economic ties with smaller states such as Cambodia, Myanmar and the Philippines—often through promises of infrastructure loans.

The Trump administration’s “America First” approach has also shaken some U.S. relationships in Asia. On taking office, Mr. Trump took the U.S. out of a Pacific trade pact that was seen as a counter to China’s economic presence, and in which Vietnam stood to become one of the greatest beneficiaries.

In a policy document published in December, the administration sketched a new national-security strategy that depicts the world as one of heightened rivalries and potentially dangerous competition, especially from China.

That stance has further put Asian partners who are reluctant to choose sides on edge. “I think more than in any region, the sense of great power rivalry is pronounced in Southeast Asia,” said Huong Le Thu, senior analyst at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

For the past two weeks, the Carl Vinson has steamed through the South China Sea, making a port call in Manila and welcoming media and officials on board to demonstrate U.S. commitment. The carrier has about 4,500 personnel and 1,500 on accompanying escorts, officials said.

Rear Adm. John Fuller, commander of the carrier strike group, said the Navy is committed to a role as a relationship-builder, through port visits and joint exercises. “It’s what we do as the United States Navy,” he said.

Write to Jake Maxwell Watts at jake.watts@wsj.com


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## Viet

Bombarding targets by EXTRA land attack missiles, assisted by UAV Orbiter-2 drone





















there are new longe range and high endurance drone and new advanced version of attack missiles from the Israelis. I wonder if we can ever get the technology and produce similar stuffs by ourselves.


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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> Bombarding targets by EXTRA land attack missiles, assisted by UAV Orbiter-2 drone



*Viet*, I have few questions about the Coastal Missile Defence. 

Why EXTRA is used as a coastal rocket complex instead of its primar role - MLRS? This missile is definitely for a high-precision elimination of ground targets, but using this one for striking ships... seems strange. 

Is it approximately known the structure of coastal missile brigades (679th, 680s and 681st)?

Thank you in advance!

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## Aqsuperman

This would be another unique day in Vietnam - US relation after the visit of President Bill Clinton back in 1995. A US aircaft carrier is now 5 km from Danang, one of the fiercest battle grounds back in the Vietnam War, or Anti - US resistance conflict in pur language. Well, shiet change fast these days so hod fast to your seat !!! More picures would be coming soon when the vessel receive the Vietnam delegation on board. 








Serge2018 said:


> *Viet*, I have few questions about the Coastal Missile Defence.
> 
> Why EXTRA is used as a coastal rocket complex instead of its primar role - MLRS? This missile is definitely for a high-precision elimination of ground targets, but using this one for striking ships... seems strange.
> 
> Is it approximately known the structure of coastal missile brigades (679th, 680s and 681st)?
> 
> Thank you in advance!



Well EXTRA is a more like a multipurpose tool, VN is suppose to use it to neutralize ground asset but slow transport and landing ship would be prime targets as well. To tackle heavili armed warship, dedicate anti - ship missile should take over. Oh and EXTRA is not deployed in a very wide scale, Coastal Defense Units tend to deploy a combination of howitzer/gun (76mm and 85mm) and Soviet era missiles (P-5 and P-15). There are new addditions over the years as well with P-800 and possibly BAl KH-35.

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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> *Viet*, I have few questions about the Coastal Missile Defence.
> 
> Why EXTRA is used as a coastal rocket complex instead of its primar role - MLRS? This missile is definitely for a high-precision elimination of ground targets, but using this one for striking ships... seems strange.
> 
> Is it approximately known the structure of coastal missile brigades (679th, 680s and 681st)?
> 
> Thank you in advance!


As apsupermann points out, Extra is a multipurpose missile that can attack targets that move as well as targets that don’t move. You know there is a great military power, if I recall it is Malaysia, that occupies lots of other people territories in the South China Sea, claiming the whole sea region as ancient lands. Peaceful rise bla bla.

Extra missiles can bring destruction to the weaponized islands, destroying the runways, before the Malays can launch aircraft to attack our territories.

Extra costs a bit more, but has longer range than MLRS, more precise, more destructive.

As for the size and structure of missile brigade, I have no clue. You can place a bet that although lack of funds Vietnam coastal defense is multilayered equipped not only by Extra missile batteries.

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## Viet

US Aircraft carrier USS CARL VINSON, guided missile cruiser USS LAKE CHAMPLAIN, destroyer USS WAYNE E. MEYER in the Da Nang bay.


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## Aqsuperman

Here, there, everywhere


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## Viet

USS Carl Vinson


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## Serge2018

Aqsuperman said:


> Well EXTRA is a more like a multipurpose tool, VN is suppose to use it to neutralize ground asset but slow transport and landing ship would be prime targets as well. To tackle heavili armed warship, dedicate anti - ship missile should take over.



OK, up to you! Despite I have a little bit another point of view towards this issue. 



Aqsuperman said:


> Oh and EXTRA is not deployed in a very wide scale, Coastal Defense Units tend to deploy a combination of howitzer/gun (76mm and 85mm) and Soviet era missiles (P-5 and P-15). There are new addditions over the years as well with P-800 and possibly BAl KH-35.



To be more precise - as far as I know - there are following rocket weaponry: "Redut" (P-35B missiles), "Rubezh" (P-15M "Termit" missiles) and K-300P "Bastion-P" (P-800 "Yakhont" missiles; two rocket batteries, at least one of them is in the 681st Birgade).
By the way, do You have any links where I can read about Vietnamese modernization of P-35B which extended its range up to 550km? As well as about Coastal Defence at all (excluding Wikipedia).

Thank You very much in advance!

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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> As apsupermann points out, Extra is a multipurpose missile that can attack targets that move as well as targets that don’t move. You know there is a great military power, if I recall it is Malaysia, that occupies lots of other people territories in the South China Sea, claiming the whole sea region as ancient lands. Peaceful rise bla bla.
> 
> Extra missiles can bring destruction to the weaponized islands, destroying the runways, before the Malays can launch aircraft to attack our territories.
> 
> Extra costs a bit more, but has longer range than MLRS, more precise, more destructive.



First export sale of Extra was to Azerbaijan soon after the Russian-Georgian war in August 2008. There are MLRS launchers with eight missiles on each (also can use 122mm and 160mm missiles).
Unfortunately, I'm still not allowed to put any photo/video here until I have 30 posts, just to show you these MLRS. At the same time, you can easily find them through Google. 



Viet said:


> As for the size and structure of missile brigade, I have no clue. You can place a bet that although lack of funds Vietnam coastal defense is multilayered equipped not only by Extra missile batteries.



In accordance with open sources, there are four brigades, including one (the 685th) rocket-artillery. This Brigade is also equipped by Extra.

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## Pepsi Cola

It was only a few decades ago that Vietnam War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the US was in Vietnam or any other countries? What's happening right now in Ukraine, Syria, and Lybia? What happens if one day there is a new election and the winner candidate don't support the US? The US works for its own interest, not for you.


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## IblinI

Okarus said:


> It was only a few decades ago that Vietnam War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the US was in Vietnam or any other countries? What's happening right now in Ukraine, Syria, and Lybia? What happens if one day there is a new election and the winner candidate don't support the US? The US works for its own interest, not for you.


Why bother, they have made up their mind.


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## Viet

Okarus said:


> It was only a few decades ago that Vietnam War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the US was in Vietnam or any other countries? What's happening right now in Ukraine, Syria, and Lybia? What happens if one day there is a new election and the winner candidate don't support the US? The US works for its own interest, not for you.


I think it is not difficult to understand we want peace and prosperity. Everything else is secondary.

Talking of past wars days and nights won’t bring us to peace and prosperity. We can talk of our wars with the French, the Japanese, the Siamese, the Mongolians, or many others I can’t remember yet. Will talking bring us anything? A new war with the US can be ruled out. We are not a country that anti Americanism belongs to national identity.

What matters is today and not what happens in the past.

You can ask yourself which country today poses the greatest danger to our national territory.

It is the same country that we have fought most wars.

The war with America is in reality a just footnote although brutal and destructive in scale in our history.


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## Aqsuperman

Okarus said:


> It was only a few decades ago that Vietnam War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the US was in Vietnam or any other countries? What's happening right now in Ukraine, Syria, and Lybia? What happens if one day there is a new election and the winner candidate don't support the US? The US works for its own interest, not for you.



There is no such thing as love or hate in internatioal relation. US work for their benefit by sending a aircraft carrier to Vietnam and we work for our benefit by accepting it. As long as both countries goal remain the same then there would be no drastic change. Talking about war, VN and China have a rather intersting history of "skirmish" against each other so yeah, no need to teach us how to act when big countries pay port calls to Vietnam. China and US used to work together to bring down the USSR, I guess something is reapeating itself here, hehe


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## Viet

Pretty cool. Transport vessels made by Z189 shipyard, powered by Rolls Royce engines, are used to ferry US and VN visitors between shore and US warships.



































As like every year, a US hospital ship will visit Vietnam in March, providing medical assistance for the locals.


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## Aqsuperman

Serge2018 said:


> To be more precise - as far as I know - there are following rocket weaponry: "Redut" (P-35B missiles), "Rubezh" (P-15M "Termit" missiles) and K-300P "Bastion-P" (P-800 "Yakhont" missiles; two rocket batteries, at least one of them is in the 681st Birgade).
> By the way, do You have any links where I can read about Vietnamese modernization of P-35B which extended its range up to 550km? As well as about Coastal Defence at all (excluding Wikipedia).



Currently, all information about Redut-M modernization is more or less come from expert speculation. There are no concrete details about it just yet but I would notify you when something comes up.

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## Viet

Serge2018 said:


> First export sale of Extra was to Azerbaijan soon after the Russian-Georgian war in August 2008. There are MLRS launchers with eight missiles on each (also can use 122mm and 160mm missiles).
> Unfortunately, I'm still not allowed to put any photo/video here until I have 30 posts, just to show you these MLRS. At the same time, you can easily find them through Google.
> 
> In accordance with open sources, there are four brigades, including one (the 685th) rocket-artillery. This Brigade is also equipped by Extra.


Pls ask more questions or similar things, and 30 posts are out.

Ah what do you think about VN/US reapproachment? Russia does too little to deter the Chinese.

The US say, the 4 nuclear powered Los Angeles class fast-attack submarines stationed in Guam could be the next guests that make port visit to Vietnam. Shark hunting games included.

https://www.stripes.com/news/submarine-could-be-next-navy-vessel-to-visit-vietnam-1.515172


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## Viet

Delivery landing ships of Damen Roro 5612 class to Panama. Similar patches were previously delivered to Venezuela and Bahamas.













Until now, only Kilo submarines can fire Kalibr cruise missiles, Roro landing ship can carry containers that can also launch Kalibr cruise missiles. Cheap and effective. A means to compensate the weakness of Vietnam surface warships.


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## Viet

State visit to Bangladesh @UKBengali

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## Serge2018

Okarus said:


> It was only a few decades ago that Vietnam War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the US was in Vietnam or any other countries? What's happening right now in Ukraine, Syria, and Lybia? What happens if one day there is a new election and the winner candidate don't support the US? The US works for its own interest, not for you.



Could you please tell what is happening in Ukraine now from the Chinese point of view?


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## Viet

Ms. Kang Kyung-wha is currently on a visit to Vietnam, preparing for the Vietnam visit by SK President Moon Jae-in. Interesting: although she is Foreign Minister, she likes to dress like a military women. Anyway she gives $20 million to VN for mine clearing efforts in the provinces of Quang Binh und Binh Dinh.

http://world.kbs.co.kr/german/news/news_In_detail.htm?No=69727


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## Serge2018

Viet said:


> Pls ask more questions or similar things, and 30 posts are out.



Yes, for sure. This is just a question of time. 



Viet said:


> Ah what do you think about VN/US reapproachment? Russia does too little to deter the Chinese.



I think this is only the Vietnam-U.S. interstate business. Despite from our side - I mean the post-Soviet space - it seems a little bit strange because of awful events during the Vietnam War. At the same time, there is extremely good that you have found reconciliation quite soon after the war.

As for Russian-Chinese relations, they have business grounds. Simalteneously, Russia is definitely scared by China - huge human resource as well as fast growing military capabilities allow China to crash Russia in case of a conventional war. Therefore, Russia can stop the PLA only by its nuclear weapon. But I think this is not the topic of the thread.

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## Viet

Beautiful missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain previously arrived for port visit.


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## warzone

Serge2018 said:


> Could you please tell what is happening in Ukraine now from the Chinese point of view?



We can also change a few words of his post and it will be like :
It was only a few decades ago that WW2 and Korea War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the Japanese Imperial Army was in China or US was in Korea against PLA and killed a couple millions PLA soldiers in human waves attacks?

This new Einstein @Okarus just realize now that every country is working for it own interest. Unless China bribe leaders in countries like Africa (and Philippines) and tiny nations, then those nations will give everything to China. There are no such as Chinese free loan and free development projects, people and nations will end up paying something later. Example please? Well The dictator Franco of Spain got a huge bribe from the Allied to not enter WW2 even after Germany gave him a huge military aid and help him win the civil war in 30s. Diplomacy is a selfish and treacherous game,, everybody is for itself like in a buffet all-you-can-eat (you take the best dishes).

Hey @Okarus, if China is so great can you remind me how many (true) military allies superpower China have? Please don't name Pakistan in it (it not your friend it only friend to counter balance India)....

Nothing is forever and things changes over decades (people die and born, mentality change) just work for your own benefits at the present moment and stop looking at the past. After WW2, the US with the marshall plan? Should the defeated German take the US aid for reconstruction (after the US destroyed) everything? Or Should the Japanese take the US financial help for reconstruction after dropping 2 nuclear bombs? From your point of view genius @Okarus , Viet like the Japanese and German have no honor. I guess China have more honor when Chinese people was wearing same clothes and riding bicycles, and then welcome all Japanese investments and aids.

Here a funny article (I can't post the link) about the aircraft carrier visit in VN from China point of view...

*China Says U.S. Carrier's Vietnam Visit Was a 'Waste of Money'*

in the National Interest magazine.

But China forget that in 2014 PLA navy pay a visit to Sri Lanka....Was worth it then? Now that Sri Lanka buy more Chinese weapons, political rapprochement and trade is booming between the 2 countries... What a hypocrisy !!! LOL

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## Viet

warzone said:


> We can also change a few words of his post and it will be like :
> It was only a few decades ago that WW2 and Korea War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the Japanese Imperial Army was in China or US was in Korea against PLA and killed a couple millions PLA soldiers in human waves attacks?
> 
> This new Einstein @Okarus just realize now that every country is working for it own interest. Unless China bribe leaders in countries like Africa (and Philippines) and tiny nations, then those nations will give everything to China. There are no such as Chinese free loan and free development projects, people and nations will end up paying something later. Example please? Well The dictator Franco of Spain got a huge bribe from the Allied to not enter WW2 even after Germany gave him a huge military aid and help him win the civil war in 30s. Diplomacy is a selfish and treacherous game,, everybody is for itself like in a buffet all-you-can-eat (you take the best dishes).
> 
> Hey @Okarus, if China is so great can you remind me how many (true) military allies superpower China have? Please don't name Pakistan in it (it not your friend it only friend to counter balance India)....
> 
> Nothing is forever and things changes over decades (people die and born, mentality change) just work for your own benefits at the present moment and stop looking at the past. After WW2, the US with the marshall plan? Should the defeated German take the US aid for reconstruction (after the US destroyed) everything? Or Should the Japanese take the US financial help for reconstruction after dropping 2 nuclear bombs? From your point of view genius @Okarus , Viet like the Japanese and German have no honor. I guess China have more honor when Chinese people was wearing same clothes and riding bicycles, and then welcome all Japanese investments and aids.
> 
> Here a funny article (I can't post the link) about the aircraft carrier visit in VN from China point of view...
> 
> *China Says U.S. Carrier's Vietnam Visit Was a 'Waste of Money'*
> 
> in the National Interest magazine.
> 
> But China forget that in 2014 PLA navy pay a visit to Sri Lanka....Was worth it then? Now that Sri Lanka buy more Chinese weapons, political rapprochement and trade is booming between the 2 countries... What a hypocrisy !!! LOL


Chinese foreign minister Mr Wang Yi complains the USS _Carl Vinson’s_ four-day visit to Da Nang threatens regional stability. Interesting logic. Chinese logic.

Considering on other side the clowns say the visit is waste of time and money, won’t alter the balance of power in the region because the PLA navy has numerous superiority.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-is-disrupting-peace-in-south-china-sea-says-beijing-f7w87d5ts

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## Pepsi Cola

warzone said:


> We can also change a few words of his post and it will be like :
> It was only a few decades ago that WW2 and Korea War ended, don't forget it so quickly. You still remember what happened the last time the Japanese Imperial Army was in China or US was in Korea against PLA and killed a couple millions PLA soldiers in human waves attacks?
> 
> This new Einstein @Okarus just realize now that every country is working for it own interest. Unless China bribe leaders in countries like Africa (and Philippines) and tiny nations, then those nations will give everything to China. There are no such as Chinese free loan and free development projects, people and nations will end up paying something later. Example please? Well The dictator Franco of Spain got a huge bribe from the Allied to not enter WW2 even after Germany gave him a huge military aid and help him win the civil war in 30s. Diplomacy is a selfish and treacherous game,, everybody is for itself like in a buffet all-you-can-eat (you take the best dishes).
> 
> Hey @Okarus, if China is so great can you remind me how many (true) military allies superpower China have? Please don't name Pakistan in it (it not your friend it only friend to counter balance India)....
> 
> Nothing is forever and things changes over decades (people die and born, mentality change) just work for your own benefits at the present moment and stop looking at the past. After WW2, the US with the marshall plan? Should the defeated German take the US aid for reconstruction (after the US destroyed) everything? Or Should the Japanese take the US financial help for reconstruction after dropping 2 nuclear bombs? From your point of view genius @Okarus , Viet like the Japanese and German have no honor. I guess China have more honor when Chinese people was wearing same clothes and riding bicycles, and then welcome all Japanese investments and aids.
> 
> Here a funny article (I can't post the link) about the aircraft carrier visit in VN from China point of view...
> 
> *China Says U.S. Carrier's Vietnam Visit Was a 'Waste of Money'*
> 
> in the National Interest magazine.
> 
> But China forget that in 2014 PLA navy pay a visit to Sri Lanka....Was worth it then? Now that Sri Lanka buy more Chinese weapons, political rapprochement and trade is booming between the 2 countries... What a hypocrisy !!! LOL



China is not great, at least not yet. China is still a developing nation and its GDP per captia is still very low. Trade is trade. You give off something and you gain something. The more trade, the better. I'm not against that.

The point is that when US comes, proxy wars follow. If you're willing to fight their wars, then be my guest. 

The "waste of money" quote was from a commentary piece on the Chinese news website. A commentary piece is a opinion piece, which means the piece only represents the author's opinion. National Interest is probably not the most credible source. They'd quote a random guy on Weibo and somehow make it seems like that one guy can represent the majority. I bet you don't always believe any opinion pieces on CNN either right?


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## Viet

Defence

*Protect freedom of navigation, combat narrow nationalism: Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang*

By PTI | Mar 04, 2018, 03.50 PM IST





_The two nations have a bilateral trade of USD 10 billion. Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Tran yesterday resolved to take it to USD 15 billion by 2020._


NEW DELHI: Peace and prosperity will come to the Indo-Asia-Pacific region only when all countries step in to protect the freedom of navigation and combat narrow nationalism, Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang said today in an apparent reference to China's military posturing in the area.

Tran also supported India's bid to become a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) and said his country supported New Delhi's active participation in regional linkages and cooperation mechanisms.

The visiting president said political, defence and security cooperations were the "strategic pillars" of bilateral relations and emphasised the effective implementation of the India-Vietnam Comprehensive Strategic Partnership.

Referring to the Indian Ocean, Asia and the Pacific, Tran said though the region was creating new drivers for growth, it faced "notable intertwined challenges". It was also the "core theatre" in the competition for power and influence among major powers, he added.

Delivering a lecture on Vietnam-India relations here, Tran said the aspiration that the next century becomes the "Indo-Asia-Pacific century" can be realised if all countries share a common vision for an open and rule-based region, and a common interest in the maintenance of peace, stability, and inclusive prosperity, "wherein no country, no nation, and no group shall be left behind".

"The aspiration (for the Indo-Asia-Pacific century) will come true when all countries join in the effort to protect the freedom of navigation and unimpeded trade and not let the Indo-Asia-Pacific be balkanised into spheres of influence manipulated by power politics, hindered by protectionism, or divided by narrow nationalism," Tran said.

The president's remarks come a day after India and Vietnam vowed to join hands for an open and thriving Indo-Pacific, besides ensuring an efficient and rule-based regional security architecture.


@Nilgiri

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## Viet

*Data Cube*

Vietnam introduces Satellite data cube system, a cheap but effective means to monitor the region by using satellites of friendly nations.

Owing to the support of I.M.System Group (USA), a modern server system with capacity of storing up to 200 TB has been established at the Vietnam National Space Center. Data Cube software system is provided by CSIRO. In the first step, Vietnam will gather the satellite data of LandSat (United States), Sentinel (European Community) and ALOS (Japan).


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## warzone

Okarus said:


> China is not great, at least not yet. China is still a developing nation and its GDP per captia is still very low. Trade is trade. You give off something and you gain something. The more trade, the better. I'm not against that.
> 
> The point is that when US comes, proxy wars follow. If you're willing to fight their wars, then be my guest.
> 
> The "waste of money" quote was from a commentary piece on the Chinese news website. A commentary piece is a opinion piece, which means the piece only represents the author's opinion. National Interest is probably not the most credible source. They'd quote a random guy on Weibo and somehow make it seems like that one guy can represent the majority. I bet you don't always believe any opinion pieces on CNN either right?




CNN and National Interest are not the greatest but still good source of info, much better than Chinese and Vietnamese government controlled newspapers and media. Whatever some articles said it’s a waste of money or waste of time or meaningless visit, I’m sure that China is not very happy about that aircraft carrier visiting VN and the warming military relation between US-VN.

From your point of view, VN taking US military cooperation and aid make VN a proxy of the US? So Taiwan, South Korea and Japan who have all US military cooperation and US hardware are all proxies of the US ? So if one day Russia increase military cooperation and send huge military aids to China to counter balance US influence in Asia, would it make China a proxy of Russia? Either you don’t understand the word proxy or I don’t understand your logic.

Let me remind you that China want ALL the South China Sea and threatening everyone who dare to challenge her claims. Only a small nation (Viet Nam) dare to challenge military and stand strong against China, that why a lot of Chinese are angry for that “INSUBORDINATION” and stubborness of a small country against a mighty giant. If Viet Nam doesn’t accept military aids from whoever (Japan, US, South Korea, Taiwan, India, ect) it will be just stupid. US military aid to VN doesn’t come with any major conditions (it free why not taking it). Unlike the Russian military aids to Syria which come with a heavy price tags (leasing military bases, share resources, reconstruction contracts, debt payments, ect…). Bashar Al-Assad and Syria would have their hands tied for the next 20-30 years minimum.






Do you think the Chinese demand of South China sea is too excessive and deserve a war? Why we can all share the cake? My wish is VN would become one day a military ally of China (we share so many things in common even same DNA - VNese with Southern China) but the problem (show in history) that China never treat small nation as equal but more as vassal. To understand a problem you must admit you have a problem, that's why China never had any genuine military ally.

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## gambit

warzone said:


> My wish is VN would become one day a military ally of China (we share so many things in common even same DNA - VNese with Southern China)...


This is a very dangerous argument.

Before the discovery of DNA, we had genealogy and cultural similarities as compelling arguments for all sorts of alliances. Still, they were never enough to keep peoples from separating themselves. Am sure you can find enough reasons in Viet Nam's history to know when and why the Viets decided to fight for their independence from China.

I grew up with the Latin based Vietnamese language. Do *YOU* advocate the Chinese language for Viet Nam because of DNA? My family's origin came from North Viet Nam and we can trace our Chinese ancestry back nearly 300 yrs. *Hsüan *was our original Chinese surname before multi-great grandpa decided to leave China. Today, it is *Xuân*. There are also Indian genes in me, so who am I supposed to ally with?

Do you really think that China's claim to the entirety of the South China Sea came from Chinese overwhelming love for the Asians based upon DNA? That China is going to share the bounty of the SCS to all Asians based upon DNA ties? Today, China is claiming the sea. Tomorrow, China will claim the land. You think the Chinese are going to respect the yrs of independence Viet Nam has and leave you alone? No, the sea is just another path to claim Viet Nam. Back in 1946, the Ho-Sainteny Agreement would have put Viet Nam into the French Union. That is the best China would do for Viet Nam, a vassal state with mostly domestic autonomy.


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## Viva_Viet

* 
Korean people apologize to massacre victims in central Vietnamese province*

Hundreds of civilians in Quang Nam Province were killed by Korean troops five decades ago


By Duy Khang / Tuoi Tre News
March 11, 2018, 16:19 GMT+7





Members of the Korea-Vietnam Peace Foundation express their apologies during the commemoration of 135 victims of a wartime massacre in Ha My Hamlet in the central province of Quang Nam on March 11, 2018. Photo: Tuoi Tre
Over 40 people from South Korea have arrived in a hamlet in the central Vietnamese province of Quang Nam to commemorate the victims of a massacre carried out by Korean troops during the war 50 years ago.

Forty-one members of the Korea-Vietnam Peace Foundation expressed their apologies and formally bowed in front of family members of the deceased in Ha My Hamlet, Dien Duong Commune, Dien Ban District during a ceremony on Sunday morning.

The Korean members came from all walks of life, but they gathered at the commemoration for just one purpose, which was to extend their sincere apologies to the late victims, their families, as well as the Vietnamese people, Kang U-il, chair of the foundation, remarked.





_Dang Thi Kha, one of the survivors in the massacre which took place in 1968. Photo: _Tuoi Tre
The massacre took place in early 1968, when South Korean troops lined up the unsuspecting locals in a field before shooting straight at them.

Their mission was to eliminate every single communist in the hamlet.

Many families were completely wiped out following the incident.

“I was angry. I lost five family members including my mother and older brother. The massacre happened when I was just three years old,” Dang Thi Kha, a survivor, said.





_Kim Mae Hwa (R), whose cousin was among the Korean troops, apologizes to Nguyen Thi Thanh, a survivor of the massacre. Photo:_ Tuoi Tre
“Now as the Korean people are saying sorry, I understand that my anger would not be able to change the past,” Kha continued

https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/society...ims-in-central-vietnamese-province/44483.html


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## warzone

gambit said:


> This is a very dangerous argument.
> 
> Before the discovery of DNA, we had genealogy and cultural similarities as compelling arguments for all sorts of alliances. Still, they were never enough to keep peoples from separating themselves. Am sure you can find enough reasons in Viet Nam's history to know when and why the Viets decided to fight for their independence from China.
> 
> I grew up with the Latin based Vietnamese language. Do *YOU* advocate the Chinese language for Viet Nam because of DNA? My family's origin came from North Viet Nam and we can trace our Chinese ancestry back nearly 300 yrs. *Hsüan *was our original Chinese surname before multi-great grandpa decided to leave China. Today, it is *Xuân*. There are also Indian genes in me, so who am I supposed to ally with?
> 
> Do you really think that China's claim to the entirety of the South China Sea came from Chinese overwhelming love for the Asians based upon DNA? That China is going to share the bounty of the SCS to all Asians based upon DNA ties? Today, China is claiming the sea. Tomorrow, China will claim the land. You think the Chinese are going to respect the yrs of independence Viet Nam has and leave you alone? No, the sea is just another path to claim Viet Nam. Back in 1946, the Ho-Sainteny Agreement would have put Viet Nam into the French Union. That is the best China would do for Viet Nam, a vassal state with mostly domestic autonomy.




About that military alliance between VN and China, it’s my own personal utopia wish with a lot of fantasies and hot girls in it...LOL!!! Of course you are not going to side with someone just because he have the same eyes and hairs color as you and he also know your grandma. In politic like in business, you going to take the best offer on the table regardless where the person come from. I’m just saying that similar DNA and cultural background should help the relation between 2 countries not distance them like what is happening now.

I was thinking about a relation like Russia and Serbia have, both are Slavs ethnic and orthodox religion.

My family also come from North Viet Nam (Hung Yen) and we can also trace back our origins from China. NGUYEN is YUEN in Chinese, as you know most Vnese names have Chinese origin. We are North 1954 in Ho Nai (Bien Hoa), the baddest anti-communist soldiers during the VN war...

The human relation is good between VNese and Chinese. Just look at the Chinatowns around the world, they are mostly VNese and Chinese living/working next/with each others. They get along because we share many similarities and background. VNese are not going to live in Little Delhi or Little Havana neighborhoods. Immigrants always go where they feel like home and the VNese are no different.

I have many close Chinese friends and I get along with them very well because we share same value, mentality and cultural background. But we never talk about VN/CN politic and SCS maybe that's why we still good friends...LOL

Human relation and politic are 2 different things, and people should stop judging other nation population by politic adopted by their government or political conflict between 2 governments. And we all know China will never going to change the way they treat and bully their neighbors. We also know already that China is a huge superpower who doesn’t need any equal partners and will muscle around to get she what want. The Chinese government still have that empire and vassals or superpower and satellite states mentality. Unless one day, China break in few states. What is really sad is a lot of Chinese believe the distorted informations their government feed them.

Until then, just like VN did by defeating military for the 1st time in history a modern colonial power (and then inspiring others colonized nations around the world to revolt) hopefully this time VN standing strong against China 'expansionism" will inspire others nations to stand up and fight.


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## gambit

warzone said:


> I’m just saying that similar DNA and cultural background should help the relation between 2 countries not distance them like what is happening now.


Let us inject just a wee bit of cynicism into the subject.

If a white man want to put you under his rule, it does not take much for him to find ways to make what he want palatable. Simply put, his differences from you are too obvious.

But if someone who is similar to you in many ways, now it is more problematic for him. Of course, you can appeal to him using your commonalities in asking to be viewed as an equal, and that pleading is even more important if you are somehow not as capable of defending yourself. If he does not want to be perceived as a bully, he will use your arguments against you. Your moral appeals are irrelevant at worst and useful tools for him at best. Moralities works only if everyone holds them in *EQUAL* esteem. Japan did not have it then, and China does not have it now.



warzone said:


> The human relation is good between VNese and Chinese. Just look at the Chinatowns around the world, they are mostly VNese and Chinese living/working next/with each others. They get along because we share many similarities and background. VNese are not going to live in Little Delhi or Little Havana neighborhoods. *Immigrants always go where they feel like home and the VNese are no different.*


You are correct there as I have plenty of casual reading about this subject. But there is a larger issue to consider. Minorities often got along because they had to when they are living under the laws and culture of a dominant group.



warzone said:


> I have many close Chinese friends and I get along with them very well because we share same value, mentality and cultural background. *But we never talk about VN/CN politic and SCS maybe that's why we still good friends...LOL*


Why not? Am not asking to be facetious. But genuinely 'Why not?' What are you -- all of you -- afraid of? Are shared cultural past and genetics commonalities not enough?

The reality is tough to bear. A sign of a good and deep friendship is when you are able to share *ALL* your differences to each other and still remains friends. And you will remain friends because each is confident that none will use the differences to hurt each other, especially when nationalistic passions pulls at all of you.



warzone said:


> Human relation and politic are 2 different things, and people should stop judging other nation population by politic adopted by their government or political conflict between 2 governments.


I agree with you to some degrees, but not all.

Like it or not, even in a dictatorship, a government is often, if not usually, seen as 'representative' of the country and the people. Internally, the people may despise the dictator, but when putting on a face for outsiders, they can and often will turn against any criticisms of what they perceives to be slights against their country.

I do not immediately come to a conclusion about any individual, but once I learned of his origin, I will consider his country's political contents in dealing with him. For example, if I meet a Canadian, I know that Canadians are generally benevolently condescending of Americans, and I know that attitude came from a combination of Canadian politics and culture.

I may not judge, but neither will I ignore the importance of politics upon a person. And I am not unique in this. If I say to a foreigner that I am an American, how do I know if he will assess me based upon Iraq or American fast food or Disney or all of them? Based upon my time in the USAF, I dare say that any foreigner who delays his assessment of an American and deals with him/her on a personal level is a rarity.



warzone said:


> And we all know China will never going to change the way they treat and bully their neighbors. We also know already that China is a huge superpower who doesn’t need any equal partners and will muscle around to get she what want. The Chinese government still have that empire and vassals or superpower and satellite states mentality. Unless one day, China break in few states. What is really sad is a lot of Chinese believe the distorted informations their government feed them.
> 
> Until then, just like VN did by defeating military for the 1st time in history a modern colonial power (and then inspiring others colonized nations around the world to revolt) hopefully this time VN standing strong against China 'expansionism" will inspire others nations to stand up and fight.


Then I will say this...

The Internet opened new ways for peoples of all countries to talk to each other, but the common thing I have noticed is that unless it is specified up front that a conversation is to be devoid of ideologies and politics, the *DEFAULT* subjects are ideologies and politics, and given the fact that this forum is military oriented, ideologies are politics are inevitable.

So when it is obvious that a group is hypernationalistic -- the Chinese -- it is pointless to try to appeal to them on humanistic grounds. Hypernationalism is a rage that cannot be reasoned with because with reasoning are compromises, and compromises means getting less than what are expected. China want *ALL* of Asia, just like how the Japanese once wanted all of Asia. The Chinese on this forum supports that aspiration. China have no good intentions for Viet Nam. Never had and never will.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

warzone said:


> thats why China never had any genuine military ally.


 
Let us be clear: diplomatic and military alliance are only tools for minor factions, that would otherwise not be able survive until the next winter in the world stage if playing alone.
Why would THE greatest Civilization on Earth, that ranks first at the end of the game, spanning over 10'000 years, need the ludicrous help provided by any other puny factions?
China has leaded the human development for the last 5 milleniums unmatched, with the exception of the post Mongol occupations era: after Admiral Zhenghe's seven voyages post 1421 AD, followed by the Manchu occupation of the 17th AD, the Eight-Nation Alliance occupation of the 19th AD, and the Japan-Soviet-U.S. triple occupations of the 20th AD.
But today, after 6 centuries of foreign occupations, China is back on track once again toward the first place, just think about its unbreakable quantum entanglement communications, the largest 500 meters radio telescope FAST, the largest 100 kilometers in circumference particle supercollider in construction, the deepest 3000 meters undersea manned laboratory, the fastest supercomputers Sunway TaihuLight and Tianhe-2, the most sensitive quantum submarine detector SQUID (superconducting quantum interference device), the supersonic vacuum maglev train, etc, etc..

_*Great powers don't need to have any allies.*_ - General Charles de Gaulle.




warzone said:


> My wish is VN would become one day a military ally of China (we share so many things in common even same DNA - VNese with Southern China) but the problem (show in history) that China never treat small nation as equal but more as vassal.



DNA is everything bro, I see that we are on the same wavelength!
Indeed, the ecosystems dictate the selection of genes. Since China (excluding the North) and Indochina (excluding the South) both share the same type of geological and biological ecosystems (humid subtropical rainforest over karstic geomorphologic landscapes, with bamboo forests), both people have developed convergent genetic solutions through Darwinian selection.

Just one example: both Chinese and Indochinese people enjoy the delicate fragrance of the jackfruits and durians. But western imperialist invaders, that never encountered these delicacies during the last milleniums, simply didn't select the right genes, and their neural systems will simply detect and falsely missclassify the rich molecules of these fruits! As their brains will trigger alerts likening the molecules to putrefaction... 
Meaning that cohabitation with ethnic Europeans is simply impossible, ending with reckless bans of these fruits, if one is to live under western occupation like in South East Asia (i.e. Singapore).

Same goes for most food and everyday life products like nước mắm, Chinese coriander, bamboo shoots, camphor based balms, etc. etc...















Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...4/?temp_hash=24402490b6a0b9ad0120d636db94bef4
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...wa_Cfa.png/800px-Koppen_World_Map_Cwa_Cfa.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koppen_World_Map_Cwa_Cfa.png



▲ Both people live in Humid subtropical climate.







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...2/?temp_hash=24402490b6a0b9ad0120d636db94bef4
http://static.baicaolu.com/uploads/201311/13856937667z8AbQDO.jpg
http://www.baicaolu.com/doc-view-11027.html



▲ Both people enjoy the delicate fragrance of the jackfruits.







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...5/?temp_hash=24402490b6a0b9ad0120d636db94bef4
http://feiyishu.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/c3874b04fac874e.jpg
http://feiyishu.com/4685.html



▲ Both people enjoy the delicate fragrance of the durians. 







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...6/?temp_hash=24402490b6a0b9ad0120d636db94bef4
http://cdn.sci-news.com/images/2016/07/image_4041_2-Slow-Loris.jpg
http://www.sci-news.com/biology/aye-ayes-slow-loris-alcohol-consumption-04041.html



▲ Both people enjoy the sight of the Bee Monkey or Nycticebus coucang at dusk.




warzone said:


> Until then, just like VN did by defeating military for the 1st time in history a modern colonial power (and then inspiring others colonized nations around the world to revolt)




Alas, wake up, this is another misreading of the history of the 20th AD! As an Indochinese, one must go to Dien Bien Phu and witness with one's own eye, the official tribute paid to the FUGOs, instrumental in the demise of the West!
Note that FUGOs is the name used by the Japanese during WWII, and are their directed energy and mind-control secret weapons, later captured by the U.S. victor at the end of the Pacific War.
In a nutshell, nobody but the U.S. puppet master did win after 1947, the Indochina pawn being only used by them as a cannon fodder to destroy the French Empire. 








Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/img_1374-jpg.452198/?temp_hash=4c38f622dde651252d19936be94dc7a0
http://



▲ Dien Bien Phu, or the beginning of the end of the French Empire 







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/img_1611-jpg.452199/?temp_hash=4c38f622dde651252d19936be94dc7a0
http://



▲ Dien Bien Phu, or the beginning of the end of the French Empire







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...3/?temp_hash=4c38f622dde651252d19936be94dc7a0
https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/111901158062830631644/6419412776846290802
https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...:0x0!8m2!3d21.392344!4d103.015982?hl=en&dcr=0
Geolocation: 
21°23'32.4"N 103°00'57.5"E
21.392344, 103.015982




▲ Dien Bien Phu, or the beginning of the end of the French Empire
Street lamp post as a FUGO hovering over the world, notice the purple death ray







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/img_1874-jpg.452200/?temp_hash=4c38f622dde651252d19936be94dc7a0
http://



▲ Dien Bien Phu, or the beginning of the end of the French Empire
Street lamp post as a FUGO hovering over the world, notice the purple death ray







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/img_1935-jpg.452201/?temp_hash=4c38f622dde651252d19936be94dc7a0
http://



▲ Normal Indochinese street lamp post in nearby town







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/img_1961-jpg.452202/?temp_hash=4c38f622dde651252d19936be94dc7a0
http://



▲ Normal Indochinese street lamp post in a nearby city



Meanwhile, 7 decades later in the U.S. occupied French capital...







Spoiler: Link



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...2/?temp_hash=5dfeafbb249875f1f76a48fe5839f45b




▲ French President's comment as displayed by the French TV...(9 Feb 2018)







Spoiler: Link



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...3/?temp_hash=5dfeafbb249875f1f76a48fe5839f45b

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/961929436999438336https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/961929436999438336
Geolocation: 
48°52'14.3"N 2°19'00.3"E
48.870641, 2.316754 



▲ French President's comment as displayed in twitter. 3:47 AM - 9 Feb 2018







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...6/?temp_hash=5dfeafbb249875f1f76a48fe5839f45b
Geolocation: 
48°49'25.1"N 2°21'55.1"E
48.823649, 2.365292 



▲ Meanwhile, 7 decades later in the U.S. occupied French capital


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## Nilgiri

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> Just one example: both Chinese and Indochinese people enjoy the delicate fragrance of the jackfruits and durians. But western imperialist invaders, that never encountered these delicacies during the last milleniums, simply didn't select the right genes, and their neural systems will simply detect and falsely missclassify the rich molecules of these fruits! As their brains will trigger alerts likening the molecules to putrefaction...
> Meaning that cohabitation with ethnic Europeans is simply impossible, ending with reckless bans of these fruits, if one is to live under western occupation like in South East Asia (i.e. Singapore).



I personally prefer Jackfruit overall over Durian (though some durians are quite good, it depends).

I used to not like even jackfruit as kid, but suddenly developed the taste of it around teenage years.

What do you prefer out of interest.... jackfruit or durian?


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## Galactic Penguin SST

Nilgiri said:


> I personally prefer Jackfruit overall over Durian (though some durians are quite good, it depends).
> 
> I used to not like even jackfruit as kid, but suddenly developed the taste of it around teenage years.
> 
> What do you prefer out of interest.... jackfruit or durian?



Like the Tiger, the King Of The Jungle, the King Of Fruits of course!









Spoiler: Links



http://
http://
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJGrzP4PW7Q



▲ Cô Gái Sầu Riêng - Tâm Đoan [Vân Sơn 20 - Vân Sơn In Việt Nam - Những Nẻo Đường Miền Tây]. Published on Feb 19, 2017

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## Viet

_*Great powers don't need to have any allies.*_ - General Charles de Gaulle.

America is the greatest military power the world has ever seen, but she relies on her allies to provide assistance when going to war.

As for the French, without the British helping them in WW I and II, they would have ended up as slaves to the Germans. So de Gaulle admits France is not a great power. Even in the last phase of the war against the Viet Minh on Indochinese battlefields, the French army relied on money and weapons provided by the US. In the decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu, the French relied on the recruited German soldiers (former Wehrmacht) because not the French but the Germans that fought the desperate battle until the bitter end.

In the last days of the battle, the French general staff even issued a request to the United States government for authorization of nuclear weapons. Both, the US and France thought of possibility of Chinese intervention should they resort to nuclear war. In that case there were plans to attack China with nuclear weapons too.

Crazy people

To maintain the colonial rule over Indochina, America and France were willing to start a new nuclear war.

The plan was dropped because the British government opposed the idea.

That all are recently revealed by Pentagon Papers.

http://donkasprzak.com/drop-3-atomic-bombs-at-dien-bien-phu/amp/

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Viet said:


> America is the greatest military power the world has ever seen, but she relies on her *allies* to provide assistance when going to war.



Respectfully disagree, great confusion again from our bro from the south...

*Puppet*





A puppet is a country that is de jure independent but is more or less controlled by another, often stronger nation, through an installed government that is loyal to the controlling nation.

When a country is puppeted, its government is replaced by one installed by the puppet master, matching the puppet master's ideology. If a puppet master declares war, they can call in their puppets as allies. In the peace conference that ensues after a successful war, puppeted countries will not be able to make demands by themselves, though the puppet master can dictate demands in favor of its puppets if they choose to do so. As a result, an already puppeted country cannot puppet other countries.

If a puppet master is forced to capitulate, its puppets will automatically capitulate as well if it isn't in a faction with a major country that has yet to capitulate. If a puppet master capitulates but there are still majors in a puppets faction, the puppet will earn autonomy points if TFV/DOD is enabled. Upon defeating a puppet master (and other majors in faction with it), the victorious nations can choose to detach puppeted countries from their puppet master, making them free-standing nations again. Communist countries get a 70% cost reduction for puppeting other countries. 

*Puppet Master*

Advantages of having a puppet

• No insurgency
• The puppet master nation may import goods from its puppet or subject state at a rate discounted below the standard trade rate 
• It is possible to "request" control over the troops of the puppet; this provides additional divisions for the puppet master, although puppet divisions may not be very well designed.
• The master can effectively boost their own manpower by raising units including a mix of master and puppet manpower (70% for a Colony, 90% for a Puppet, and 100% for an Integrated Puppet). Such colonial divisions are controlled by the puppet master.
• Puppeting countries can often be safer than annexing them as it generates less World TensionWorld Tension than territorial annexation, reducing the risk of foreign intervention by other potentially hostile countries.


Disadvantages of having a puppet

• Puppeting small countries with few resources is less efficient than simply annexing the country.
• If you give too much land to a puppet, it may refuse to give you your land back.


*Being a puppet*


Advantages of being a puppet

• If a nation declares war on a puppet, its master will automatically turn hostile towards the nation that declared war on it, bringing them as well as all their other puppets into the fight. 
• Puppets can receive lend lease from their master, even in peacetime.


Disadvantages of being a puppet 

• A puppet can neither justify war goals nor can it declare war on another country, in addition to that, puppets cannot make demands in a peace conference, meaning that a puppet's territorial expansion is entirely decided by the puppet master.
• If a puppet master declares war on a nation, they can freely force the puppet into the war. If matched up against a stronger opponent and fighting alone, the odds are clearly not in its favor. Even if the puppet proves stronger and defeats that enemy, it gets nothing but glory (and autonomy points) from the war unless the puppet master provides something in the peace or thereafter.
• A puppet has to deal with autonomy or risk further disadvantages in favor of its overlord. 

*Autonomy system*


Autonomy levels

One puppet may act more or less independent than another. This represents the difference between largely autonomous dominions like Canada or Australia, somewhat autonomous colonies like the British Raj, and totally subservient puppet states like Manchukuo and Mengkukuo.








Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...5/?temp_hash=da58b1a4c007eb7e7afc045c9030a850
http://
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Puppet



▲ Table of Autonomy levels







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...6/?temp_hash=da58b1a4c007eb7e7afc045c9030a850
http://
https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Puppet



▲ Table of Autonomy levels (fascism)

https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Puppet


*Conclusion*

As the disparity between the U.S. hyperpower and all other minors nations is so huge, the U.S. has only puppets and no allies.

And for this same reason, that's why China never had any genuine military ally, and only puppets.

How could there ever be a relationship based on an equal footing between China and its much feable neigbours, would a child ask for equality of treatment from its parents? 

The best Korea has ever achieved over 2000 years, is the two countries being as “close as lips and teeth”. 

In this regard, Indochina being to China as close as "beard and lips", could benefit from the vast Chinese economic bounties, investments and assistance in building infrastructures that are so needed, military umbrella including nuclear plus missile defence coverage, cultural mutually benenefitial exchanges, boon for the tourism industry of both nations, academic and professional opportunities, etc., if only it decides to do so.

Be humble, there is no shame in recognising one's past mistakes, and mend one's past hostile and self-defeating diplomacy, provided it is done timely and with sincerity. Presenting an official apology via diplomatic channel should suffice in this case. 

And forget about the U.S. backstabbers, don't repeat the same mistakes of President Ngô Đình Diệm who was brutally assassinated by his handler during a CIA-backed coup d'état in 1963!
Learn the lessons from Saif al-Islam Gaddafi of Libya, who personaly decided to surrender the Libyan nuclear program and thrust the U.S., only to wake up after the 2011 C.I.A hatched color revolution! 








Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/diemassas-jpg.459176/?temp_hash=fb6e9134d84799b07164a7ec9f101d1a
http://bowlingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/diemassas.jpg
http://



▲ Miserable end of South Vietnam President Ngô Đình Diệm backstabbed by the U.S. 








Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...7/?temp_hash=fb6e9134d84799b07164a7ec9f101d1a
http://www.peopleschina.net/UploadFiles/20131019249800.jpg
http://www.peopleschina.net/Shuhua_show.asp?id=1182



▲ A powerful and prosperous Asia from North to South possible if united.

P.S. Kindly advise you to start taking mandarin courses without any more delays. Be assured that many Chinese friends in this forum will surely be glad to provide guidance if needed.


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## sahureka2

in Vietnam, the modification and conversion work carried out by the Cubans was very interesting, integrating different weapons into a different chassis platform; hopefully it is hoped to be carried out also in Vietnam with the collaboration of Havana

http://soha.vn/canh-sat-bien-viet-n...g-khong-quan-rieng-biet-20180221235415315.htm

http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/quo...moi-hop-tac-quoc-phong-viet-nam-cuba-3354145/

Here are some of your typical weapons like the SA-2/3 anti-aircraft missile launcher on the T-54/55 tank frame, artillery installed on trucks, modified BTR-60 troop transport vehicles with BMP-1 turrets or even more interesting with the cannon D-10T2S 100mm of the T-54-55, turning it into a tank destroyer and called BTR-100.






This interest has increased in recent days, when the new version of the BTR-60 appeared even more extensively modified and armed with the cannon U-5TS 115mmof the T-62, to which the name BTR-115 is temporarily assigned





Interesting article, which states that Vietnam provided three (3) UAV-02 of local production in Cuba

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## Viet

fact to Vietnam war

The man, who led America into the Vietnam war: US President Lyndon B. Johnson. All began with much hurra´s but when the war slowly slipped into the military disaster, he lamented in a talk: *“A man can fight . . . if he can see daylight down the road somewhere. But there ain’t no daylight in Vietnam. There’s not a bit." “I just can’t be the architect of surrender.”*







To gather intel over North Vietnam, the US airforce deployed their most advanced recon airplane SR71 Blackbird. Code named *"Giant Scale"*. Starting in 1968, taking off airbase of Okinawa in Japan, the SR-71 fleet conducted averaged one sortie a week for nearly two years. By 1970, two sorties per week, and by 1972, then one sortie per day. Although North Vietnamese air defence reportedly fired over 800 missiles but none could hit the airplane that is capable to fly as high as 85,000 ft at Mach 3.5.

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## Viet

Surprise: last year 2017, Vietnam is the second largest arms buyer of Israel after India. Per SIPRI Amrs Transfer Database, Vietnam arms purchases include 5 SPYDER missile trucks with 200 Derby and 200 Python-5 surface to air missiles.

http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israels-top-arms-clients-India-Vietnam-Azerbaijan-545027

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## Viet

*Vietnam sees role for Australia in resolving South China Sea tensions*





Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull meets with Prime Minister of Vietnam Nguyen Xuan Phuc during a bilateral meeting in Da Nang, Vietnam, in November 2017. Alex Ellinghausen

by Lisa Murray

Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc has flagged closer co-operation with Australia to deal with tensions in the South China Sea as he warned all sides to refrain from using force and intimidation.

Mr Phuc said Canberra and Hanoi, which are set to deepen trade and defence ties this week with a new strategic partnership, would cooperate closely to ensure security in the region and freedom of navigation and over-flight in the contested area.


Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/politics/wo...na-sea-tensions-20180313-h0xf4s#ixzz59nPNKcYL

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## Viet

Hanoi/Canberra establising strategic partnership

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## Viet

Welcome to hell. Patch Ceremony for the new comer: Brig. Gen. Viet Luong, deputy commanding general of operations of the 8th US Army in S. Korea.

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## Viet

New recruits


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## Viet

In these days Vietnam remembers of My Lai masacre committed by US armed forces 50 years ago. The bloodbath lasting 4 hours on 16. März 1968 ends 504 lives including women und children.


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## AViet

including women and children is not a correct statement, Viet. Absolute majority of them are women and children.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> including women and children is not a correct statement, Viet. Absolute majority of them are women and children.


you are right. most all the victims were women and children.


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## Aqsuperman

The overhaul of Vietnam ex Korean Pohang aka HQ-18

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## Viet

Vietnam stops another oil project with the Spanish company Repsol in an apparent threat of war of the Chinese. I wonder what can be done to stop the Chinese clowns?

It will be sooner or later a time for a decision.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-43507448

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## Viet

Nice gesture with symbolism: the wife of the RoK President Kim Jung-sook receives 15 Vietnamese students in the president palace ahead of her husband President Moon Jae-in’s visit to Vietnam. Small countries need to unite against regional bully.







RoK President on a sales trip. Given the growth rate in trades, Vietnam will overtake the US and become the second largest trading partner of Korea in just 2 years after China, with bilateral trades exceeding $100b.


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## Viet

*Lavrov comments on Russia-Vietnam military cooperation*
Military & Defense
March 23, 11:08





© Mikhail Japaridze / TASS

*HANOI*, March 23. /TASS/. Military and military-technical cooperation between Moscow and Hanoi meets criteria of the international law, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Friday after talks with his Vietnamese counterpart Pham Binh Minh.

"Russia and Vietnam share views on the problems of the world order and call for respecting the international law, the central role of the United Nations, a collective approach to solving any issues and solely peaceful methods of settling any disputes," Lavrov said.

Russia and Vietnam seek to set up "such an architecture of cooperation which would ensure sustainable development and meet interests of security" of all countries of the Asia-Pacific Region, Russia’s top diplomat said.

"Military and military-technical cooperation between Russia and Vietnam fully meets these criteria," he stressed.

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) should have a central and encouraging role in the joint efforts of building the new inclusive off-bloc architecture, Lavrov said.

ASEAN was set up on August 8, 1967 in Bangkok. The organization brings together Brunei, Vietnam, Indonesia, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines. Russia has been ASEAN’s dialogue partner.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/995722


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## Viet

Some news from the big country on the northern front

Starting from the war against Vietnam in the 1979, the PLA laid mine fields along the entire border to Vietnam. Just 21 from 53 mine fields were cleared by the PLA soldiers. Large parts of territories remain no-man land.

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## Viet

Some signs of normalization 40 years after the war. China Railway Kunming says wanting to accelerate construction of railway to Vietnam transporting both passengers and goods. Freight capacity per train will be increased from 270 tons to 4,000 tons. Vietnam allows Chinese private cars to enter the territory as far as Ha Long city.


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## Viet

Surprise: Vietnam communist chief in Paris for a chat with French President Emmanuel Marcon. Relationship with the French is a complicated matter. Vietnam is still a developing country with little money but as bonbon for the visit, the Vietnamese companies that accompany the visit have signed several billions of USD with French businesses including cooperation in space, purchase of modern aircraft, building of subway and power plant.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...als-during-vietnam-leader-visit-idUSKBN1H320Q

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## AViet

Viet said:


> Surprise: Vietnam communist chief in Paris for a chat with French President Emmanuel Marcon. Relationship with the French is a complicated matter. *Vietnam is still a developing country with little money but as bonbon* for the visit, the Vietnamese companies that accompany the visit have signed several billions of USD with French businesses including cooperation in space, purchase of modern aircraft, building of subway and power plant.



What is the point? Vietnam of course is a poor developing country and what we going to deal with France is typically for a developing country: 
- Cooperation in space: meaning Vietnam buy technology from France, not vice versa;
- purchase of modern aircraft: meaning Vietnam buy aircraft from France, not vice versa; 
- building of subway and power plant: meaning Vietnam buy technology or equipment from France, not vice versa...


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## Viet

AViet said:


> What is the point? Vietnam of course is a poor developing country and what we going to deal with France is typically for a developing country:
> - Cooperation in space: meaning Vietnam buy technology from France, not vice versa;
> - purchase of modern aircraft: meaning Vietnam buy aircraft from France, not vice versa;
> - building of subway and power plant: meaning Vietnam buy technology or equipment from France, not vice versa...


Of course we came out from dirty poor status and now achieve poor status. Of course we can’t produce aircraft hence are forced to buy from the French. I sometimes ago bought a Toyota car too.

What is your point?

There are military deals too but as they aren’t disclosed so I didn’t mention.

What we know: both VietJet and the new comer Bamboo airways buy aircraft and other stuffs worth $10.3 billions.

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## Viet

Made by US company Metal Shark, worth $20 millions, another batch of 6 highspeed boats for Vietnam coast guard. The US coast guard fields similar Metal Shark boats.


*Hoa Kỳ chuyển giao 6 xuồng tuần tra cho Việt Nam*




Bản quyền hình ảnh ĐSQ HOA KỲ
Image caption Xuồng tuần tra phản ứng nhanh Metal Shark do Hoa Kỳ bàn giao cho Việt Nam.

Hoa Kỳ vừa chuyển giao cho Việt Nam sáu xuồng tuần tra Metal Shark trong chuyến thăm đầu tiên của Tư lệnh Tuần duyên Hoa Kỳ đến nước này, theo thông cáo báo chí từ Đại sứ quán Hoa Kỳ tại Hà Nội ngày 29/3.

Việc bàn giao sáu xuống tuần tra này diễn ra trong thời điểm Phó Đô đốc Fred M. Midgette, Tư lệnh lực lượng Tuần duyên Hoa Kỳ, đang có chuyến thăm Việt Nam.

Lễ bàn giao cơ sở vật chất và trang thiết bị trị giá 20 triệu đô la cho Bộ Tư lệnh Vùng Cảnh sát biển 4 diễn ra tại đảo Phú Quốc - điểm cực Tây Nam của Việt Nam - được xem là một cột mốc nữa trong quan hệ hợp tác đang phát triển giữa Hoa Kỳ và Việt Nam, và thể hiện sự ủng hộ của Hoa Kỳ đối với Việt Nam - 'một đất nước hùng mạnh, thịnh vượng, độc lập, có đóng góp cho an ninh quốc tế và thượng tôn pháp luật', theo thông báo báo chí của Đại sứ quán Hoa Kỳ tại Hà Nội.





Bản quyền hình ảnhĐSQ HOA KỲ
Image captionĐại sứ Hoa Kỳ Daniel Kritenbrink và Trung tướng Nguyễn Quang Đạm tại buổi lễ bàn giao




Bản quyền hình ảnhĐSQ HOA KỲ
Image caption

Đại sứ Hoa Kỳ Daniel Kritenbrink, Trung tướng Nguyễn Quang Đạm, Tư lệnh lực lượng Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam, Phó Đô đốc Fred M. Midgette, Tư lệnh lực lượng Tuần duyên Hoa Kỳ, Tổng Lãnh sự Hoa Kỳ tại Thành phố Hồ Chí Minh Mary Tarnowka và các quan chức Việt Nam tại Phú Quốc hôm 28/3

Các cơ sở vật chất và trang thiết bị được bàn giao bao gồm một trung tâm huấn huyện, một xưởng bảo dưỡng, một thang nâng xuồng, các phương tiện, máy mô phỏng hàng hải và 6 xuồng tuần tra phản ứng nhanh mới, có khả năng di chuyển với vận tốc tối đa 50 hải lý/giờ.

Đại sứ Hoa Kỳ tại Việt Nam Daniel Kritenbrink phát biểu: "Mùa thu năm nay, chúng tôi dự kiến khởi công cơ sở của Vùng Cảnh sát biển 3 tại Vũng Tàu" và cho rằng đây "thực sự là một thời điểm đầy phấn chấn" trong mối quan hệ hợp tác hiệu quả giữa Hoa Kỳ và Việt Nam.

Các thách thức trong khu vực và toàn cầu hiện nay bao gồm buôn lậu; buôn bán trái phép; cướp biển và cướp có vũ trang trên biển; đánh bắt cá trái phép, không có kiểm soát và không báo cáo; suy giảm môi trường và nhiều vấn đề khác.




Bản quyền hình ảnh ĐSQ HOA KỲ
Image caption Xuồng tuần tra phản ứng nhanh Metal Shark do Hoa Kỳ bàn giao cho Việt Nam

Xuồng tuần tra Metal Shark của Vùng Cảnh sát biển 4 sẽ đóng vai trò ngăn chặn các tác nhân xấu với những vi phạm chống lại Việt Nam hoặc diễn ra trong khu vực gần Việt Nam.

Theo Đại sứ quán Hoa Kỳ tại Hà Nội, quan hệ đối tác song phương giữa Hoa Kỳ và Việt Nam tiếp tục phát triển đạt những tầm cao mới, với việc các Tổng thống Hoa Kỳ liên tiếp công du tới Việt Nam - Tổng thống Obama năm 2016 và Tổng thống Trump năm 2017; với chuyến thăm của quan chức quốc phòng cấp cao nhất - Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Hoa Kỳ James Mattis - vào tháng 1 năm 2018; hay tàu sân bay Hải quân Hoa Kỳ USS Carl Vinson thực hiện chuyến thăm lịch sử tới Việt Nam vào đầu tháng này.

http://www.bbc.com/vietnamese/vietnam-43579610

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## Viet

“45 Defiant” patrol class, speed 50 knots, plus a training center, a maintenance facility, a boat lift, vehicles, a navigation simulator are transfered to Vietnam Coast Guard. Vice Admiral Fred M. Midgette, Commander of the US coast guard is in Vietnam for the handover.


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## Viva_Viet

AViet said:


> What is the point? Vietnam of course is a poor developing country and what we going to deal with France is typically for a developing country:
> - Cooperation in space: meaning Vietnam buy technology from France, not vice versa;
> - purchase of modern aircraft: meaning Vietnam buy aircraft from France, not vice versa;
> - building of subway and power plant: meaning Vietnam buy technology or equipment from France, not vice versa...


Okay,but France will buy more VN clothes,shoes, seafoods, fruits etc from VN.

And if France transfer more high tech to VN, then VN-France will earn more money if VN can localize up to 40% of France high tech products and sell to TPP, ASEAN region.


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Okay,but France will buy more VN clothes,shoes, seafoods, fruits etc from VN.
> 
> And if France transfer more high tech to VN, then VN-France will earn more money if VN can localize up to 40% of France high tech products and sell to TPP, ASEAN region.


Let’s not forget we need the French support for the incoming EU free trade pact and French warships in the South China Sea. The US increase military budget to $700 billions per year, other including the Chinese follow by increasing the military spendings. Exciting times ahead. If the world goes down, why not in a Big Bang.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Let’s not forget we need the French support for the incoming EU free trade pact and French warships in the South China Sea. The US increase military budget to $700 billions per year, other including the Chinese follow by increasing the military spendings. Exciting times ahead. If the world goes down, why not in a Big Bang.
> 
> 
> View attachment 462485


Yep, UK just show to Russia that she is still a strong nation when she can call for support to expell Russian diplomats and boycotting World cup in Russia. So, I think France also wanna look strong like UK,too, and Indochina region can help France to gain more power again.

Transfer more high tech to VN, then France will get more power and money when her cars,her plane, her ships etc can sell to all over TPP,ASEAN region.

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## Viet

Vietnam can’t build aircraft but has good software coders. FPT software and Airbus have signed agreement to further develop Skywise data platform. The system will be Airbus future centralized maintenance system for all types of Airbus airplanes.

Easyjet with 300 aircraft and AirAsia with 700 aircrafts are the first customers that use Skywise.

https://centreforaviation.com/news/...rm-deals-with-fpt-software-and-easyjet-783799


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## Viet

Cuba libre!

Next stop at socialist brother Cuba. As gift to the visit, Vietnam frees Cuba from the debts and 5,000 ton rice. Cuba interestingly in return gives the command of a 160ha economic zone west of Havana to a Vietnamese company in an effort to provide some fresh air to its ailing Soviet-style command economy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/cub...ion-at-special-development-zone-idUSL1N1RC09Z











Aerial view of Mariel's port, Cuba's main entry and exit point for foreign trade


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## sahureka2

but not only that, other collaborations will continue:
https://vov.vn/chinh-tri/dang/tong-...-dam-voi-chu-tich-cuba-raul-castro-745334.vov
in one passage it is affirmed:
" _Hai bên nhất trí tập trung thúc đẩy hợp tác kinh tế, thương mại, đầu tư, giáo dục thế hệ trẻ; tiếp tục hợp tác chặt chẽ về quốc phòng, an ninh và đối ngoại; tích cực phối hợp và ủng hộ lẫn nhau trên các diễn đàn đa phương, đẩy mạnh giao lưu nhân dân, giáo dục thế hệ trẻ hai nước.
The two sides agreed to focus on promoting economic, trade, investment and education of the young generation. *continue to cooperate closely on defense*, security and foreign affairs; actively coordinate and support each other in multilateral forums, promote people exchanges, educate the young generation of the two countries."_

this reminds me of my post of March 13, 2018



sahureka2 said:


> in Vietnam, the modification and conversion work carried out by the Cubans was very interesting, integrating different weapons into a different chassis platform; hopefully it is hoped to be carried out also in Vietnam with the collaboration of Havana
> 
> http://soha.vn/canh-sat-bien-viet-n...g-khong-quan-rieng-biet-20180221235415315.htm
> 
> http://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/quo...moi-hop-tac-quoc-phong-viet-nam-cuba-3354145/
> 
> Here are some of your typical weapons like the SA-2/3 anti-aircraft missile launcher on the T-54/55 tank frame, artillery installed on trucks, modified BTR-60 troop transport vehicles with BMP-1 turrets or even more interesting with the cannon D-10T2S 100mm of the T-54-55, turning it into a tank destroyer and called BTR-100.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This interest has increased in recent days, when the new version of the BTR-60 appeared even more extensively modified and armed with the cannon U-5TS 115mmof the T-62, to which the name BTR-115 is temporarily assigned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting article, which states that Vietnam provided three (3) UAV-02 of local production in Cuba



I wonder if we will soon see some Vietnamese system that resembles, for example, the BTR-100 or BTR-115 or Juppiter V, and instead, we will see a Cuban anti-ship missile that resembles the KCT-15, a Vietnamese version licensed by the Russian Kh-35 Uran.

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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> but not only that, other collaborations will continue:
> https://vov.vn/chinh-tri/dang/tong-...-dam-voi-chu-tich-cuba-raul-castro-745334.vov
> in one passage it is affirmed:
> " _Hai bên nhất trí tập trung thúc đẩy hợp tác kinh tế, thương mại, đầu tư, giáo dục thế hệ trẻ; tiếp tục hợp tác chặt chẽ về quốc phòng, an ninh và đối ngoại; tích cực phối hợp và ủng hộ lẫn nhau trên các diễn đàn đa phương, đẩy mạnh giao lưu nhân dân, giáo dục thế hệ trẻ hai nước.
> The two sides agreed to focus on promoting economic, trade, investment and education of the young generation. *continue to cooperate closely on defense*, security and foreign affairs; actively coordinate and support each other in multilateral forums, promote people exchanges, educate the young generation of the two countries."_
> 
> this reminds me of my post of March 13, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if we will soon see some Vietnamese system that resembles, for example, the BTR-100 or BTR-115 or Juppiter V, and instead, we will see a Cuban anti-ship missile that resembles the KCT-15, a Vietnamese version licensed by the Russian Kh-35 Uran.


No way. Vietnam will never transfer antiship missile technology to Cuba. Harmless thing such as surveillance drones will be given but no sophisticated weapons. Vietnam companies will inject some $500 million to $1 billion into Cuba economy. In defense deals, little is disclosed. Cuba may provide SA2 missiles on tank chassis to Vietnam air defense.


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## AViet

Viet said:


> No way. Vietnam *will never transfer antiship missile technology to Cuba. Harmless thing such as surveillance drones will be given but no sophisticated weapons.* Vietnam companies will inject some $500 million to $1 billion into Cuba economy. In defense deals, little is disclosed. Cuba may provide SA2 missiles on tank chassis to Vietnam air defense.
> 
> View attachment 463151



You must be Vietnamese vice minister of Defence General Nguyen Chi Vinh or at least the spokeman of this ministry, who prefer to be disguised as a German on this forum.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> You must be Vietnamese vice minister of Defence General Nguyen Chi Vinh or at least the spokeman of this ministry, who prefer to be disguised as a German on this forum.


I had expected a China fanboy as you would cone and ask such question. Look, it’s all about probability. If you have ever played lottery, you know it: it is not easy to pick the correct 6 numbers out of 49 possibilities for any number. In case you don’t know, it it 49^6. To win the jackpot, you must additional guess the correct number 7. So 49^7. Take the calculator!

The probability Vietnam delivery of AshM to Cuba is lower than 1/(49^7). Why? Look at the map: Cuba neighbors include the United States. We aren’t mad enough to risk a new war.

USSR delivery of missiles to Cuba once brought the world to a nuclear showdown.

Well we don’t have nuclear missiles that can be delivered, but Cuba could threaten US warships in the region by AShM if we delivered. The US would consider such thing as hostile act. Donald Trump won’t be amused.

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## Viet

April 4, Moscow: following the visit of General Sergei Shoigu to Hanoi early this year, Vietnam and Russia militaries have signed a 3 year cooperation agreement til 2020 with the aim to increase professionalism and combat strength of the Vietnamese army. A renewed speculation Russia will deliver Su35 fighter jet and S400 missile system. New: Vietnam will participate in joint military exercises including tank biathlon on Russia territory.

Russia president Vladimir Putin will pay a visit to Vietnam, although no date is announced yet.


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam Riot Militia with Israeli Tar-21. Damn!

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Vietnam Riot Militia with Israeli Tar-21. Damn!


nice. military grade equipment. but shoes appear not military grade and look weak. Right direction with better equippments. maybe we can export the stuffs. everyone wants to earn money by selling killing machines.

Tar-21 rifles









Ctar21 rifles





Galil ACE 31/32 7,62x39mm rifles










M79 40mm granate launcher










not hightech, but VN made artillery shells can pulverize enemy targets.

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## Viet

two news from the country of rising sun:

with more than 260,000 including students Vietnamese make up Japan´s third largest foreign group after Chinese and Koreans. as Vietnamese group doubles every two years, it is expected Vietnamese ethnics will surpass the koreans and chinese within 10 years to reach 1,000,000. Not necessary a bad thing for Japan´s shrinking and aging population.

http://hpr2.org/post/asia-minute-record-number-foreigners-living-japan

Vietnamese engineers have completed MicroDragon satellite: 50x50x50 centimeters cube with the weighs of 50 kilograms. Once in orbit, it will monitor Vietnam´s coastal waters and locate fisheries resources. It will also track illegal foreign vessels. a Japanese Epsilon rocket will lift the satellite into space end of the year. 2 more satellites code name LOTUSat-2 with 500kg each will be launched.

the Japanese are welcome to assist Vietnam to make rockets so we can launch satellites into space by our launching vehicles. Spy satellites included.

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## Aqsuperman

Talking about rocket, here is TV-01, a Vietnam designed rocket. Given the primitive launch rail, it's probably a prototype for now but the project as a whole has a lot of potential in term of military application.

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## Viet

Interesting to know: in the US government budget 2018, $12 million is allocated for Vietnam military and $5 million for “Vietnam Education Foundation Grants". $17 million in total. a tinny water drop in the vast ocean of $4 trillion government budget.


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## Viet

rare pictures: Vietnamese female fighters during the war between China and Vietnam, 1979, photography by Alain Ruscio.

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## Viet

*Vietnam's Fishing ‘Militia’ to Defend Maritime Claims Against China *
April 06, 2018 9:35 AM





FILE - Fishing boats are docked in Tho Quang port, Danang, Vietnam.


TAIPEI — 
Vietnam is quietly fostering a state-supported fishing boat militia to hold off China at sea even as the two sides talk formally about easing their sovereignty dispute, according to experts who follow the issue.

The Southeast Asian country is encouraging its commercial fishing fleet to use stronger boats and take military-trained personnel to sea in case of a clash with China, analysts who follow the country say. China has its own fishing militia, in the same body of water.

“I think it’s a good policy to avoid future conflicts where militia fishermen are out in the sea and if there are some tensions,” said Trung Nguyen, dean of international relations at Ho Chi Minh University of Social Sciences and Humanities.

Development of the Vietnamese militia since at least 2009 comes despite regular talks between the two governments, with the latest just this week. 

The Vietnamese Communist Party general secretary met the visiting Chinese foreign minister Monday to suggest “joint safeguarding (of) maritime peace and stability,” China’s Xinhua News Agency said.

Vietnam may be “flexing muscle” now in case talks fail to produce results, said Eduardo Araral, associate professor in the National University of Singapore’s school of public policy.





*
How the militia works*

The Vietnamese militia has not gone to battle with China, and if it did it would risk facing the world's third largest military.

But Vietnamese military units are arming fishing boats, said Carl Thayer, Southeast Asia-specialized emeritus professor at the University of New South Wales in Australia.

That procedure may be similar to the deployment of former soldiers to help keep public order as needed on land in Vietnam, he said. Vietnam requires conscription, he added, so fishermen would already have basic military skills.

“Putting them at sea would just be getting people the right age and giving them that training,” he said. “All they did is move what they do on land, how to defend factories et cetera, and extend that to sea, so I’d imagine it’s the same thing.”

Thirteen fishing militia platoons are helping more than 3,000 fishermen work near the South China Sea's Paracel Islands, according to a 2017 study by scholars with the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore. China controls the Paracels, but Vietnam claims the chain as its own.

The maritime militia got a boost in 2009 when the Vietnamese National Assembly passed a law recommending that self-defense militia escort Vietnamese fishing fleets.

The more than 10,000 fishermen and roughly 2,000 fishing boats in Khanh Hoa province of southern Vietnam have received infrared night vision binoculars and ﬁrearms, the study from Singapore says.

Vietnam issued a protocol in 2014 to aid fishermen who build “modern large capacity” ships, often steel ones, to expand their reach, the study adds. It says Vietnamese banks had lent $176 million to fishermen for upgrades of some 400 ships.





FILE - A Vietnamese sinking boat (L) which was rammed and then sunk by Chinese vessels near disputed Paracels Islands, is seen near a Marine Guard ship (R) at Ly Son island of Vietnam's central Quang Ngai province.
*
Record of clashes*

China claims about 90 percent of the 3.5 million-square-kilometer South China Sea. Vietnam says it should control the sea’s waters off its long north-south coastline extending into the Paracel and Spratly Island chains.

Sailors died in clashes between the countries in 1974 and 1988. The positioning of a Chinese oil rig in 2014 sparked a boat-ramming incident at sea and deadly rioting in Vietnam against Chinese interests.

China has long nurtured its own fishing militia as a “grassroots” effort with formal military support and attention from President Xi Jinping, scholars from the U.S.-based Naval War College’s China Maritime Studies Institute have written. Armed fishing boats help defend China’s maritime claims by “harrying and diverting” foreign vessels, the political intelligence firm Stratfor said in 2016.

Five other governments claim all or parts of the South China Sea. They dispute China’s land reclamation to build up islets in the sea and the military use of some.





FILE - A Vietnamese naval soldier stands quard at Thuyen Chai island in the Spratly archipelago.

The two Communist countries hold frequent party-to-party and senior-level official talks about settling maritime differences. But talks often fall short of any settlement because of historic distrust, especially now on how to divide undersea oil and gas fields, Araral said.

“Maybe this is some kind of muscle-flexing dynamic on the part of the Vietnamese to say that ‘while we talk we assert our rights,’” Araral said.

A Vietnamese fishing militia will not be able to catch up to the capability and number of personnel under China's militia, he said, but Vietnam feels obligated to try. “So they have to build their own local capabilities and they will do a guerrilla resistance to the Chinese if necessary," he said.

_This story was written by Ralph Jennings_

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## Viet

General Ngô Xuân Lịch pays a visit to Tokyo April, 4. Vietnam encourages Japan to do more for peace and stability in the region. Japan warships are welcome to pay visits to Vietnam.
















https://m.vov.vn/quan-su-quoc-phong...nzo-abe-749554.vov#ref-https://www.google.de/


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## Viet

Female militia






Computer aided 37mm & 57mm AAA guns with auto loading

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## Viet

New generation of 139-seater high-speed boat linking the mainland and islands. Starting end of April connecting Ly Son Island, shortening the travel time from the mainland to the island from 75 minutes to 35 minutes. Built by the Shipyard 189 at a cost of US$1 million. Speed 30 kn.

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## Viet

3 Australia warships as HMAS Anzac, HMAS Toowoomba and HMAS Success will make port call to Saigon with more than 640 sailors onboard on the coming days.

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## Viet

New hunting season: loading Kalibr cruise missiles

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## Viet

Vietnamese surface warships in live fire exercise

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## Jäger

I heard Vietnam will acquire new Self Propelled Howitzers either the French Caesar or Russian Msta? which has the better win for the contract?

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## Viet

Bundeswehr said:


> I heard Vietnam will acquire new Self Propelled Howitzers either the French Caesar or Russian Msta? which has the better win for the contract?


I believe if to choose which one, the army will buy Msta because Vietnam already produces 152mm shells. Caesar uses 155mm shells.

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## Aqsuperman

A platoon of VPA upgraded T-55s undergoing maintenance

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> A platoon of VPA upgraded T-55s undergoing maintenance


Look cool. I wonder when our T90 tanks will arrive though? Those upgraded T55 tanks even in large number of 1,000 pieces or more have little chance against the mass of heavy armored Chinese tanks with 125mm main gun.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Look cool. I wonder when our T90 tanks will arrive though? Those upgraded T55 tanks even in large number of 1,000 pieces or more have little chance against the mass of heavy armored Chinese tanks with 125mm main gun.



There are tank tactics (combined with other ones) the Vietnamese will have developed by now to make do with what they got against more well armed adversary. There are ways to harness defenders advantage even if your tank is 1 generation behind or so....using terrain and adequate anti-tank support.

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## Viet

Training Sailship tàu *Lê Quý Đôn* sets sail to pay visit to Cambodia and Thailand.

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## Viet

Built by X46 shipyard, two more 260 ton Fishery patrol ships

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> There are tank tactics (combined with other ones) the Vietnamese will have developed by now to make do with what they got against more well armed adversary. There are ways to harness defenders advantage even if your tank is 1 generation behind or so....using terrain and adequate anti-tank support.


India possesses several large tank armies I wonder why both countries Vietnam and India can’t cooperate on producing tanks. From the news: Vietnam will modernize 800 T54/55 tanks (out of 1,200) with many of them equipped by laser guided 105mm M68 main cannon.

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## Viet

At the recent air strike carried out by the US, France and England, Syria air defense shot down many of Tomahawk cruise missiles fired by US destroyers. For instance 5 out of 12 of S125 ground to missiles being fired, 5 destroyed the targets. A respectable result. Good to know: Vietnam air defense possess a modernized S125 air defense system, with faster response time and more accuracy.











Vietnam air defense with S125 missiles


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> India possesses several large tank armies I wonder why both countries Vietnam and India can’t cooperate on producing tanks. From the news: Vietnam will modernize 800 T54/55 tanks (out of 1,200) with many of them equipped by laser guided 105mm M68 main cannon.
> 
> View attachment 467349



We are overhauling our defence dev+production strategy right now....it has been atrociously mismanaged for decades now. Hope there is movement on this sustainably so this kind of JV can happen in future.

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## Viet

Kuwait sends several supertankers with 4 million barrels of crude in total to Vietnam this month in April. More to come. the new Nghi Son refinery needs 200,000 barrels per day.

https://www.hellenicshippingnews.co...crude-for-new-vietnam-refinery-in-april-data/


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## Viet

Although having coal reserves of estimated 48.2 billion tons in Red River basin and North East coal basin, enough to fuel power plants for hundreds of years, Vietnam plans to import gigantic amount of coals from Australia, Indonesia and Russia: 40.3m tons in 2020, 100m tons in 2030. Vietnam coal is not of high quality.

http://english.vov.vn/economy/vietnams-coal-imports-grow-despite-large-reserves-373000.vov

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Although having coal reserves of estimated 48.2 billion tons in Red River basin and North East coal basin, enough to fuel power plants for hundreds of years, Vietnam plans to import gigantic amount of coals from Australia, Indonesia and Russia: 40.3m tons in 2020, 100m tons in 2030. Vietnam coal is not of high quality.
> 
> http://english.vov.vn/economy/vietnams-coal-imports-grow-despite-large-reserves-373000.vov



Indonesian prices have suddenly plummeted short term because of large supply increase there and demand internally has dropped. India and Vietnam probably will increase imports from there this year I think.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Indonesian prices have suddenly plummeted short term because of large supply increase there and demand internally has dropped. India and Vietnam probably will increase imports from there this year I think.


Yes great stuff. Vietnam shall increase imports of cheap but high quality coal. The prices drop because the chinese stop the operations of many thermal power plants. Maybe because of high level of polution. A good time to buy coal to build up national coal reserves. We never know when the Chinese run amok and impose a sea blockade. They just harrashed Australian warships when they are en route to Vietnam.

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## NEKONEKO

Nilgiri said:


> Indonesian prices have suddenly plummeted short term because of large supply increase there and demand internally has dropped. India and Vietnam probably will increase imports from there this year I think.


You are right

China has restricted coal imports at many ports and plans to phase out a large number of thermal plants, hurting demand. Indian power generators are likely to increase imports because they face a supply crunch.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/ec...ndonesia-coal-prices/articleshow/63823659.cms

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## Viet

Suu Kyi in Vietnam, the strongman oh I mean the women that holds the political power in Burma.






@Aung Zaya

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> Suu Kyi in Vietnam, the strongman oh I mean the women that holds the political power in Burma.
> 
> View attachment 468293
> 
> 
> @Aung Zaya


sure. bro
she hold the strongest political power and support from most of the people in Myanmar. 
i think this visit will emphasize to improve in trade and investment. Vietnam is now 7th largest investor of Myanmar and investment of Vietnam in Myanmar is now $2.1B, jumping over 50% compared to 2016's figure. goods of vietnam especially snacks and home appliances gained very good reputation in Myanmar.

* Aung San Suu Kyi visits Vietnam *
Released at: 13:38, 21/04/2018






Myanmar's State Counsellor Aung San Suu Kyi is welcomed by Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc in Hanoi on April 19. (Photo: VNA)




Myanmar's State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi paid official visit to Vietnam on April 19 and 20.

by Long Van


Vietnam & Myanmar to establish comprehensive cooperative partnership
FPT wins $11.3 million contract in Myanmar
Viettel wins $1.5 billion bid in Myanmar
Myanmar’s State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, who is also Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of the President’s Office, paid an official visit to Vietnam on April 19 and 20 at the invitation of Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc. The two countries issued a joint statement, the text of which follows and was released by the Vietnam News Agency.

1. At the invitation of His Excellency Nguyen Xuan Phuc, Prime Minister of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, Her Excellency Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, State Counsellor of the Republic of the Union of Myanmar, paid her first official visit to Vietnam from April 19 to 20.

2. During the visit, State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi was accorded a ceremonial welcome by His Excellency Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc. While in Vietnam, State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi held bilateral talks with Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and attended a banquet hosted by the Prime Minister. State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi also paid courtesy calls on leaders of Vietnam, laid a wreath at the Monument of National Heroes and Martyrs, and visited President Ho Chi Minh’s Stilt House. The State Counsellor also met with the Chairman of the Vietnam - Myanmar Friendship Association and Vietnamese enterprises operating in Myanmar.

3. The two leaders acknowledged that the traditional friendship and close cooperation between Vietnam and Myanmar were established by President Ho Chi Minh and General Aung San and cultivated by generations of leaders and people from both countries. They reaffirmed their common aspirations for peace, prosperity and development of the region and beyond. Vietnamese leaders emphasized that Vietnam is always mindful of the strong support rendered by the government and people of Myanmar in the past struggle for national liberation and in current efforts for national development. State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi expressed her admiration for the determination and courage with which the government and people of Vietnam defended and developed their country. State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi congratulated Vietnam for successfully implementing the strategy of renovation, reform and intensive and extensive international integration.

4. The leaders reviewed developments in bilateral relations and cooperation since the successful visit by His Excellency Nguyen Phu Trong, General Secretary of Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam, to Myanmar in August 2017. The Vietnamese side stressed the importance attached to relations with Myanmar and the government led by the National League for Democracy (NLD) and reaffirmed its continued support for peace and national reconciliation in Myanmar. Vietnam firmly believes that the 21st Century Panglong was a major step forward and, through dialogues and negotiation, the Government of Myanmar would continue to succeed in building a stable and thriving democratic federal Union. The Myanmar side expressed its appreciation to Vietnam for its consistent support as well as for sharing with Myanmar its experience with regard to national reconciliation and development.

5. Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi noted with satisfaction the positive progress in bilateral cooperation in past years, particularly the elevation of bilateral ties to a Comprehensive Cooperative Partnership in August 2017. Both sides reaffirmed their will to strengthen further the effectiveness of comprehensive cooperation in all areas, including trade and investment, cultural, social, and educational cooperation. These efforts will enhance trust and intensified cooperation between the two countries, bringing practical benefits to both peoples.

6. In order to effectively implement the Comprehensive Cooperative Partnership Agreement, the two leaders expressed their strong desire to promote cooperation in politics, trade and investment, defense and security, agriculture, forestry and fisheries, connectivity, energy and telecommunications, tourism, justice, education, and people-to-people exchanges and regional involvement.

7. The two sides emphasized that the exchange of visits at all levels and channels, including government-to-government, parliament-to-parliament, party-to-party, and people-to-people, will enhance the friendship and cooperation between the two countries. Both sides agreed that close party-to-party cooperation is an important pillar of bilateral ties and looked forward to the early signing of Action Plan 2018-2023 to implement the Comprehensive Cooperative Partnership established in August 2017.

8. The two sides recognized the strong development in bilateral economic cooperation. Two-way trade in 2017 reached nearly $830 million, a 51 per cent increase compared to 2016. Vietnam has risen to become the seventh-largest foreign investor in Myanmar, with 17 projects and $2.1 billion in registered capital. This relationship of cooperation demonstrates that the two economies complement each other and brings benefits to both sides in the fields of agricultural trade, investment, aqua product processing, tourism and services, given the circumstance that the Government of Myanmar is carrying out extensive economic reforms. The two sides also reaffirmed the commitment to enhance cooperation and find new means to reach the two-way trade target of $1 billion at the earliest possible time. Both sides stressed the importance of policy provision in trade and investment and providing a favorable environment for foreign investors, including those from Myanmar and Vietnam. Leaders of both sides recognized the need to study further the possibility of establishing new mechanisms as well as signing the necessary memoranda of understanding (MoUs) and agreements to help facilitate and promote investment between the two countries.

9. Both sides expressed appreciation of recent developments in bilateral defense-security cooperation and reaffirmed the continued effective implementation of agreements reached under bilateral and multilateral frameworks. The two sides agreed to expand defense and security cooperation, including the exchange of military delegations at all levels, conduct the Defense Policy Dialogue at the Deputy Ministerial level in 2018, and expand cooperation into other areas, such as training, medical assistance, search and rescue, and sports exchanges. Vietnam welcomes friendship, sightseeing, and field research visits by Myanmar delegations as well as Myanmar trainees attending courses on the treatment of burns and the manufacture of prosthetic limbs in Vietnam.

10. The two sides welcomed and committed to fully implementing the newly-signed MoU on Cooperation in the Field of Post, Telecommunication and ICT, and the MoU on Information Cooperation. Both sides agreed to expedite negotiations for the early signing of the Agreement on the Prevention and Fight Against Crime and other agreements and treaties in the field of security cooperation. Both sides reaffirmed their commitment not to allow any individual or organization to use one country’s territory to conduct activities against the other country.

11. Both sides agreed to strengthen cooperation with a view towards promoting closer financial links and enhancing the financial sector, including financial services. The two sides also emphasized the importance of strengthening bilateral cooperation in the telecommunications and energy sectors, especially in the fields of oil and gas and infrastructure sharing.

12. Both sides reiterated that agriculture, forestry and fisheries cooperation is an important area of cooperation with many advantages and potential for mutual support and development. In that spirit, the two sides agreed to sign agreements on agriculture, forestry, fisheries and livestock and to expand cooperation at an early date to find ways to improve the quality and value of agricultural products, including corn, rice, beans and mung beans. The two sides expressed a commitment to accelerating procedures to sign an MoU on Cooperation in Agriculture and Rural Development at the earliest possible time.

13. The two sides also agreed to promote multi-modal transport cooperation, including land, sea and air links between the two countries and within the sub-region. In light of the successful GMS 6 held in Hanoi in March, the two sides will work closely together to achieve the goals set out at GMS 6.

14. The two leaders also discussed ways to deepen further bilateral ties in tourism, justice, education and people-to-people exchanges under the framework of the Comprehensive Cooperative Partnership. Both sides encouraged the effective implementation of student exchange programs at all levels. They reiterated their support of the role and activities of the Vietnam-Myanmar Friendship Association and the Myanmar-Vietnam Friendship Association to enhance people-to-people exchanges and contribute proactively to the extensive development of the Comprehensive Cooperative Partnership between the two countries.

15. The two leaders expressed their appreciation of the close cooperation in regional and international forums, including ASEAN, the Non-Aligned Movement, and the UN. To elevate the excellent cooperation to new heights in the spirit of the Comprehensive Cooperative Partnership, both sides agreed to continue to support the realization of the ASEAN Community’s goals through regional cooperation within the ACMECS and the CLMV frameworks, especially in the areas of environment, poverty alleviation, water security, connectivity, and human resources development.

16. The two sides reiterated continuing the close cooperation in regional cooperation mechanisms in the Mekong sub-region, including the Mekong - Japan, Mekong - Korea, Mekong - Ganga, and Lower Mekong Initiative as well as the Greater Mekong Sub-region. Vietnam encouraged Myanmar to become an official member of the Mekong River Commission (MRC).

17. Leaders of both sides expressed their commitment to cooperate closely to build a successful ASEAN Community with a central role in the regional security architecture.

18. Both sides reiterated the importance of maintaining peace, stability, and freedom of navigation and overflight in the region and underlined the importance of the peaceful resolution of disputes in accordance with international law and the 1982 UNCLOS without resorting to threat or use of force. Both sides committed to support the full and effective implementation of the DOC and the early conclusion of an effective COC in the East Sea.

19. State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi expressed her deep gratitude for the hospitality, cordiality, and warm-hearted reception Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc accorded to her and the members of the delegation and looked forward to receiving Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc on an official visit to Myanmar at a mutually convenient time.

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## Viet

@Aung Zaya

the Singapore company Gia Phu International Pte. Ltd. wants to construct a $5 billion Vung Ro refinery. We will need some 160,000 barrels crude per day or more. Would be good if we buy oil from Myanmar for Vung Ro.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> @Aung Zaya
> 
> the Singapore company Gia Phu International Pte. Ltd. wants to construct a $5 billion Vung Ro refinery. We will need some 160,000 barrels crude per day or more. Would be good if we buy oil from Myanmar for Vung Ro.



Is there any existing/proposed overland energy pipeline from Myanmar to Vietnam?

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Viet said:


> Look cool. I wonder when our T90 tanks will arrive though? Those upgraded T55 tanks even in large number of 1,000 pieces or more have little chance against the mass of heavy armored Chinese tanks with 125mm main gun.



This shows that Indochina should have sticked to its Socialist Focus path. 
The DPRK, a Northern brotherly nation that was razed to the ground after the war in 1953, and after six decades of steady dedication to its Songun-Juche orientation, the DPRK has emerged victorious, as a H-bomb superpower, with a manned space program.
Instead, after the demise of the Soviet Union, the Warsaw Pact and the COMECON, by changing its heading by a 180 degrees U-turn, Indochina is now left light years behind!







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...0/?temp_hash=cdf90dd97ab29f8753fb2dce394e461d
http://
http://



▲ Comrades *Kim Il Sung* and Ho Chi Minh, 1958 in Hanoi.







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...0/?temp_hash=8a03760fd66d3ae1124f7f0c462b6f61
http://ipic.su/img/img7/fs/multi_photo_2017-08-08_dn32972_image1closeupL.1502255863.jpg



▲ North Korean orbital recoverable capsule for manned space program, full flight sequence schematics











Spoiler: Links



https://i.imgur.com/D5SMkXv.jpg
http://




▲ North Korean Unha launchers family


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Is there any existing/proposed overland energy pipeline from Myanmar to Vietnam?


Not yet as far as official announcements are concerned. What we know, 2 Viet companies explore oil and gas in Myanmar since 10 years, there is no report of discovery though. Vietnam wants oil and gas as it’s issued in the joint statements during the visit of Suu Kyi. It makes sense to have pipelines linking both countries. Burma has huge oil reserves, also gas. It has pipeline to China. In the case of VN, we have two challenges to overcome: money to finance the construction and consent of Thailand and Laos for transit. 

Many things happen under the surface we all don’t know though.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSTRE4930WB20081004

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## Viet

Land Platforms

*Vietnam upgrades heavy armour fleet*
*Dmitry Fediushko, Moscow* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
20 April 2018

The People’s Army of Vietnam (PAVN) is upgrading its fleet of heavy armoured vehicles, Russian and Vietnamese defence sources have told _Jane's_ .

Hanoi is receiving Russian T-90S main battle tanks (MBTs). “Deliveries of the T-90S/SK MBTs to Vietnam have already begun. The contract is to be implemented before the end of 2019,” a Russian defence industry source told _Jane's_ . According to the 2016 annual report of the manufacturer Uralvagonzavod (UVZ), Vietnam is to receive 64 T-90S/SK tanks. This means Hanoi is receiving the baseline and command (T-90SK) version of the T-90S.

Meanwhile, the PAVN is upgrading some of its legacy T-54/55 tanks to the T-54M3 standard.


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## Viet

Sea blockade or not, Vietnamese oil company Petrolinex will buy a stake in the JXTG's Marifu oil refinery in Japan in April 2019. Probably major parts of 200,000 barrels refinery’s output will be exported to Vietnam.







https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-Deals/Japanese-refiner-JXTG-to-export-gasoline-to-Vietnam


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## Viet

In the ongoing economic talks between the United States and Japan, Tokyo offers cheap loans and insurance to exporters shipping American liquefied natural gas to Vietnam and elsewhere. In the first step, the US and Japan want to train workers in Vietnam and the Philippines, to assess the feasibility and environmental impact of infrastructure projects. Japan hopes the move will lure Donald Trump away from the demand of a free trade agreement with Japan.

Not a bad move: Vietnam needs clean energy.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan-to-promote-American-LNG-exports-with-eye-on-trade-gap

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## Aqsuperman

More details about the T-54M3 tank project. It seems that Isreali offer Vietnam some of the best weapon deals nowdays in term of missiles, tanks and rifiles. 






Hanoi is receiving Russian T-90S main battle tanks (MBTs). "The deliveries of the *T-90S*/SK MBTs to Vietnam have already started. The contract is to be completed before the end of 2019," a source from Russian defense industry says. According to the annual report of the Uralvagonzavod (UVZ) research-and-manufacturing corporation for 2016, No.704 customer (Vietnam) is to receive 64 T-90S/SK tanks. Therefore, Hanoi takes the delivery of both the baseline and the command (T-90SK) modifications of the T-90S.

At the same time, PAVN updates a number of legacy T-54/55 tanks to the T-54M3 standard. "The Vietnamese military has launched a program to upgrade its fleet of T-54/55 tanks," a source from Vietnamese defense industry says. He adds that "several dozen" tanks will be modified. "The modernization of the whole fleet of T-54/55 MBTs is unlikely due to financial constraints," he says.

According to the source, the T-54M3 tank has been fitted with additional Super Blazer explosive reactive armor that protects the tank's frontal arc and sides. The vehicle has retained the organic D-10T2S 100 mm rifled gun of the baseline T-54/55. The T-54M3 has also received a new sighting system with infrared channel and a meteorological sensor. The tank's armament suite has been reinforced by a 60 mm mortar installed in the left part of the turret. The organic DShKM 12.7 mm heavy anti-aircraft machinegun has been retained also. All the new components of the T-54M3 tank are supplied by Israel's Rafael company.

"PAVN has launched several programs aimed at the modernization of Cold war-era systems. The T-54B tanks, the *BM-21* Grad multiple launch rocket systems and the P-18 radars will be upgraded in the first instance," the Vietnamese source said. According to him, the T-54Bs, not T-55 or Chinese-made Type 59 tanks, will be rebuilt into the T-54M3s.

The Vietnamese military has been beefing up the combat potential of its sea and air components in recent years. However, the land service of PAVN, Vietnam People's Ground Forces (VPGF) saw almost no upgrade. In 2015, Hanoi refurbished *ASU-85* 85 mm self-propelled anti-tank guns (SPATG) and issued them to the 168th Artillery Brigade of VPGF.

The acquisition of T-90S and modernization of the T-54B will shore the combat potential of Vietnamese ground troops. However, the firepower of the T-54M3 lags behind that of most modern tanks.

Vietnam's armor fleet comprises the T-54/55, *T-62*, *Type 59* (a Chinese copy of the T-54), and even WWII-age T-34-85 tanks. Thus, Hanoi urgently needs to bring it to a modern standard.

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## Viet

Ye military buildup costs money, blood and tears. What are the options on the table?


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## Viet

Surprise: nice pictures of artificial peaceful nearshore islands in the Gulfs of Tonkin and Thailand. Not comparable to the islands created by a certain northern country with guns and missiles in place. Next step: creating far shore islands.

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## Viet

Also something new: peacekeeping operations

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Surprise: nice pictures of artificial peaceful nearshore islands in the Gulfs of Tonkin and Thailand. Not comparable to the islands created by a certain northern country with guns and missiles in place. Next step: creating far shore islands.
> 
> 
> View attachment 469877
> View attachment 469876
> 
> View attachment 469881
> 
> View attachment 469875
> View attachment 469878



How much would a typical property go for do you think on these kind of islands in Vietnam?

I have not seen @Carlosa in a while btw, any idea whats up?


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> How much would a typical property go for do you think on these kind of islands in Vietnam?
> 
> I have not seen @Carlosa in a while btw, any idea whats up?


Such artificial islands with housings are something new, we haven’t such stuff before. I don’t think those houses are cheap, probably $1 million apiece. Property is still cheap in Vietnam though if you compare to other places.

You can find Carlosa on Twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/carlosascsinfo?lang=en

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## Viet

Gas masks produced by X61 factory, each costing about 1 million VND for the population, just in case, someone runs amok, resorting to chemical attack on Vietnam cities.

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## Aung Zaya

Nilgiri said:


> Is there any existing/proposed overland energy pipeline from Myanmar to Vietnam?


Sry bro. i just see ur question. 
there is no proposed pipeline or energy plan between 2 countries so far. but it can be possible in future as we're exploring more gas field in the south and BoB.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> How much would a typical property go for do you think on these kind of islands in Vietnam?
> 
> I have not seen @Carlosa in a while btw, any idea whats up?



Carlosa has retired from PDF, I prefer to spend my limited time in Twitter, a much better platform for me where I can deal directly with many of the people involved in these subjects. I'll check in here from time to time.

My twitter address: https://twitter.com/@CarlosaSCSinfo

Are you in twitter?

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Gas masks produced by X61 factory, each costing about 1 million VND for the population, just in case, someone runs amok, resorting to chemical attack on Vietnam cities.
> 
> 
> View attachment 469951



Vietnam better invest into EMP shielding for its infra as well. The cost is not excessive, the US commitee on it last said it will cost 3 billion USD roughly for entire US at basic level...so Vietnam will be much much cheaper.



Carlosa said:


> Carlosa has retired from PDF, I prefer to spend my limited time in Twitter, a much better platform for me where I can deal directly with the main people / experts on these issues. I'll check in here from time to time.
> 
> My twitter address: https://twitter.com/@CarlosaSCSinfo
> 
> Are you in twitter?



I don't really tweet etc...but thanks I will follow you there buddy!

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Vietnam better invest into EMP shielding for its infra as well. The cost is not excessive, the US commitee on it last said it will cost 3 billion USD roughly for entire US at basic level...so Vietnam will be much much cheaper.


There is no real protection against nuclear EMP, similar to protection against nuclear explosion (e.i. hiding in bunkers deep under the earth surface). Deploying nuclear EMP over a foreign country territory is much similar to resorting to nuclear weapons.

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## Viet

Stealth frigate RSS Intrepid pays a 4 day visit to Đà Nẵng. A joint exercise is planned. Singapore is a country where Vietnam can take a clue of the way to the future.



















Sailors































a Vietnamese Molynia Corvett with AK-630 30mm ship ratling cannon, max firing speed 5,000 rounds/min.


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> There is no real protection against nuclear EMP, similar to protection against nuclear explosion (e.i. hiding in bunkers deep under the earth surface). Deploying nuclear EMP over a foreign country territory is much similar to resorting to nuclear weapons.



Faraday cages for critical infrastructure + at least one household container (to put in basic vital comms etc) will protect against most range of EMP flux. Also can look into bunkers for a back up comm infra (say AM radio antenna and local cell networking) that would be set up after such attack.

Of course the vast majority of electronics will get toasted (since its not feasible to protect that majority) depending on the amplitude in question...but I am talking the critical survival stuff only....i.e same concept as handing out gas masks...best to protect the best you can within reasonable cost, it makes it that much harder for the enemy to achieve a planned result.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Faraday cages for critical infrastructure + at least one household container (to put in basic vital comms etc) will protect against most range of EMP flux. Also can look into bunkers for a back up comm infra (say AM radio antenna and local cell networking) that would be set up after such attack.
> 
> Of course the vast majority of electronics will get toasted (since its not feasible to protect that majority) depending on the amplitude in question...but I am talking the critical survival stuff only....i.e same concept as handing out gas masks...best to protect the best you can within reasonable cost, it makes it that much harder for the enemy to achieve a planned result.


A nuclear EMP is usually followed by nuclear blasts. EMP is used to knock out one country’s air defense. We can shield parts of major infrastructure and our air defense against EMP but not against attack of nuclear armed ballistic missiles.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> A nuclear EMP is usually followed by nuclear blasts. EMP is used to knock out one country’s air defense. We can shield parts of major infrastructure and our air defense against EMP but not against attack of nuclear armed ballistic missiles.



Yep if its full on nuclear strike that is complete different just like you say (can only counter effectively with WMD of your own/alliance shield + MAD doctrine). 

But an adversary with such weaponry may not elect to use those but use a starfish prime style EMP (ext. high alt atmosphere/space burst) over cpl major cities etc. Esp if say Vietnam over time develops/deploys a reliable low altitude terminal defense BMD (for actual nuclear strike etc) etc.

Anyways Vietnam must certainly prioritise its defense resources in the correct sequence....this is really more a long term thing I am talking about.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Yep if its full on nuclear strike that is complete different just like you say (can only counter effectively with WMD of your own/alliance shield + MAD doctrine).
> 
> But an adversary with such weaponry may not elect to use those but use a starfish prime style EMP (ext. high alt atmosphere/space burst) over cpl major cities etc. Esp if say Vietnam over time develops/deploys a reliable low altitude terminal defense BMD (for actual nuclear strike etc) etc.
> 
> Anyways Vietnam must certainly prioritise its defense resources in the correct sequence....this is really more a long term thing I am talking about.


To tell the truth we are in a desperate situation. Even helpless.

Ok, Vietnam possesses with s300 a certain degree of air defense capability against ballistic missile attack. Acquiring s400 is under discussion. Any s400 unit with the long range powerful radar system is said can track up to 300 (s300 only 100) enemy incoming ballistic missiles simultaneously and can destroy many of them by missile interceptors. The key problem remains: the Chinese with their unlimited resources can overwhelm any Vietnam air defense by over saturation attack.

Nevertheless I think we will go for s400 soon. Vietnam is well known to fight until the bitter end.

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## Aqsuperman

Well, we never get to take things easy so far :v 

A Vietnam delegation in the Ukraine Alder MLRS weapon test.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> To tell the truth we are in a desperate situation. Even helpless.
> 
> Ok, Vietnam possesses with s300 a certain degree of air defense capability against ballistic missile attack. Acquiring s400 is under discussion. Any s400 unit with the long range powerful radar system is said can track up to 300 (s300 only 100) enemy incoming ballistic missiles simultaneously and can destroy many of them by missile interceptors. The key problem remains: the Chinese with their unlimited resources can overwhelm any Vietnam air defense by over saturation attack.
> 
> Nevertheless I think we will go for s400 soon. Vietnam is well known to fight until the bitter end.
> 
> 
> View attachment 470860
> View attachment 470861
> View attachment 470862



For time being need to have much deterrence as you can...and broaden and develop alliances with more countries that have issues with China too....that will add to this deterrence over time too. 

It is always something to balance how much you commit to security (immediate) vs economy (given the latter is what will help long term even more), definitely not easy and can never really know it its perfect amount of hedging etc... but have to try the best you can with what you got.

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## jhungary

Nilgiri said:


> Faraday cages for critical infrastructure + at least one household container (to put in basic vital comms etc) will protect against most range of EMP flux. Also can look into bunkers for a back up comm infra (say AM radio antenna and local cell networking) that would be set up after such attack.
> 
> Of course the vast majority of electronics will get toasted (since its not feasible to protect that majority) depending on the amplitude in question...but I am talking the critical survival stuff only....i.e same concept as handing out gas masks...best to protect the best you can within reasonable cost, it makes it that much harder for the enemy to achieve a planned result.



There are different level of EMP protection, and most government building was build with a giant faraday cage within its structure.

I don't know if you have ever heard of a term called SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities). SCIF have absolute 0 EM Emission, and they are protected against all sort of EMP attack, I cannot tell you in what degree however, as they are highly confidential, I can tell you this tho, each desk inside a SCIF have its own distant prescribed to it and you cannot move the table and chair otherwise you will destroy the whole SCIF integrity on EM Control

There are a lot can be done with EMP actually, it's not as mighty as most people make it out to be, of course it will be to an un-shield building.

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## Nilgiri

jhungary said:


> There are different level of EMP protection, and most government building was build with a giant faraday cage within its structure.
> 
> I don't know if you have ever heard of a term called SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities). SCIF have absolute 0 EM Emission, and they are protected against all sort of EMP attack, I cannot tell you in what degree however, as they are highly confidential, I can tell you this tho, each desk inside a SCIF have its own distant prescribed to it and you cannot move the table and chair otherwise you will destroy the whole SCIF integrity on EM Control
> 
> There are a lot can be done with EMP actually, it's not as mighty as most people make it out to be, of course it will be to an un-shield building.



Yup, there is much in the US military and other developed militaries for sure given they have the highest data (from RnD) and also highest responsibility/mandate for this scenario.


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## frequency

Carlosa said:


> Carlosa has retired from PDF, I prefer to spend my limited time in Twitter, a much better platform for me where I can deal directly with many of the people involved in these subjects. I'll check in here from time to time.
> 
> My twitter address: https://twitter.com/@CarlosaSCSinfo
> 
> Are you in twitter?



Totally agreed. I'll tweet you on twitter. I also prefer twitter over PDF. This site has gone to sh1t thanks to the Chinese infestation and the Pakis are loving it.

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam land reclamation on Spratly Island

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> For time being need to have much deterrence as you can...and broaden and develop alliances with more countries that have issues with China too....that will add to this deterrence over time too.
> 
> It is always something to balance how much you commit to security (immediate) vs economy (given the latter is what will help long term even more), definitely not easy and can never really know it its perfect amount of hedging etc... but have to try the best you can with what you got.


A strong economy will support a strong military. VN economy grows 7.5 percent this year. We need higher growth. Much higher. As for deterrence, probably you also notice: VN deterrence is diplomacy aka we hope the Chinese don’t run amok. We will see. I think it’s best we keep all guns loaded.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> A strong economy will support a strong military. VN economy grows 7.5 percent this year. We need higher growth. Much higher. As for deterrence, probably you also notice: VN deterrence is diplomacy aka we hope the Chinese don’t run amok. We will see. I think it’s best we keep all guns loaded.



Yup India too needs much higher growth rates and much stronger economy. Of course it will take time....but now we are both entering phase II at least (china about 10 - 12 years ago), so to speak:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=IN-VN-CN

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## Farhan Bohra

jhungary said:


> There are different level of EMP protection, and most government building was build with a giant faraday cage within its structure.
> 
> I don't know if you have ever heard of a term called SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities). SCIF have absolute 0 EM Emission, and they are protected against all sort of EMP attack, I cannot tell you in what degree however, as they are highly confidential, I can tell you this tho, each desk inside a SCIF have its own distant prescribed to it and you cannot move the table and chair otherwise you will destroy the whole SCIF integrity on EM Control
> 
> There are a lot can be done with EMP actually, it's not as mighty as most people make it out to be, of course it will be to an un-shield building.


There are different terminologies in SFC's C&C structures.

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## Farhan Bohra

Nilgiri said:


> Yup, there is much in the US military and other developed militaries for sure given they have the highest data (from RnD) and also highest responsibility/mandate for this scenario.








Showing in plain sight.

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## Viet

Surprise: police women on an island in the East Sea of Vietnam

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## Viet

*Kraig Labs Approved To Make Spider Silk In Vietnam – Used By US Army*

By
Matt Roush -
May 2, 2018








ANN ARBOR — Kraig Biocraft Laboratories Inc., a biotech and advanced materials developer, announced it has been issued its Enterprise Registration Certificate required to begin its operations in Vietnam.

Kraig is developing *genetically engineered silkworms* that spin silk that has some of the strength characteristics of spiderwebs — so-called “spider silk.”

“These licenses to operate in a traditional silk producing region are the most substantial milestones for Kraig Labs commercial development since the creation of our first spider silk transgenics,” said Kraig Labs founder and CEO Kim Thompson. “Our teams in the U.S.A. and in Vietnam have been working closely with officials in Quang Nam province and with central government ministries to bring this long standing vision to reality.”

The company’s advanced silk production platform was designed specifically to fit within existing silk industry infrastructure.

“Our work to obtain these approvals has been driven by our goal of producing recombinant spider silk on *a large scale*, which can only be achieved by harnessing the opportunities presented by existing large scale silk production infrastructure,” Thompson said

The company has already proven through its contract with the U.S. Army that its spider silk technology can be scaled quickly and efficiently, moving from the laboratories of the University of Notre Dame and into its own research and production facilities. The company said the Vietnam deal gives it a path to greater scalability, harnessing existing silk production infrastructure with the capacity to match the demand for spider silk materials.

“Today’s announcement is more than just a major milestone for the Company, it’s a revolutionary step in the commercialization of spider silk,” said Jon Rice, Kraig Labs COO. “More than five years of hard work, meetings, and extensive legal and regulatory paperwork, have gone into securing these approvals and licenses. We now stand ready to change an entire industry.”

Today’s announcement follows last week’s announcement of the formation of the Company’s Vietnamese subsidiary Prodigy Textiles Co. Ltd., and the receipt of that subsidiary’s Investment Registration Certificate (IRC). Having been issued both its IRC and with today’s announcement, its Enterprise Registration Certificate (ERC), Prodigy Textiles is preparing to begin operation.

Kraig’s new wholly owned subsidiary, Prodigy Textiles, is its spider silk production arm. Vietnam has been the focus of the company’s efforts to launch commercial scale production of recombinant spider silk, due to the country’s existing silk production infrastructure. Kraig estimates that it can produce its recombinant spider silk at prices similar to regular silk, giving the company a tremendous competitive advantage.

The company is now preparing for the grand opening of its subsidiary operations in Quang Nam province, Vietnam. Management is preparing to hire staff for the new facilities and is prepping the first allotment of *transgenic silkworms* to ship from its U.S. research headquarters.

To view the most recent edition of Kraig’s Spider Sense quarterly newsletter and/or to sign up for Company alerts, visit www.KraigLabs.com/newsletter.

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## Viet

Vietnam diplomacy works, showing Vietnam influence on the world stage is rising.

Toronto, April 22, 2018 - G7 foreign ministers condemn China's actions in the East and South China Seas.





Washington, May 3. Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sander of the White House warns Beijing of consequences for its growing militarization in the South China Sea.





OTTAWA, April 24, Canadian Conservative Senator Thanh Hai Ngo (a Vietnamese) brought a resolution into the Senat calling the government to take action against China. The resolution is passed Canada’s upper house of parliament with 43-28 votes.

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## Viet

Visit of Iran parliament speaker Ali Ardeshir Larijan to Hanoi. Tension between Iran and Israel can torpedo the plan to buy Iran crude to build up Vietnam’s strategic crude oil and petroleum reserves of 90 days.

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## Viet

Some more pictures of US aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson visit to Da Nang in March

cooking Viet foods (I am hungry)

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## Viet

Recuits with new camo











A stat of the Vietnam war: in 1969 at the height of the war, the US and Southern Vietnamese army fired 100,000 tonnes of ground based ammunitions per month, compared to just 150 tonnes per month by Northern Vietnamese army. the imbalance of power is bizarre.

US army





North Vietnamese army





Southern Vietnamese army (ARVN)





Southern Vietnamese Women paramilitary volunteers


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## Viet

A good relationship to Washington pays off. US Agency for International Development (USAID) provided *$390 million* non-refundable aid for a project on dioxin remediation in the Bien Hoa airport.






Some constructions ongoing, but small scale though

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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> Vietnam land reclamation on Spratly Island


is that a trench system you're building??????


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## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> is that a trench system you're building??????



Bunker, trench, hangar, runway...Just another day in the SEA region where everyone try one up each other  Still wholefully behind China effort though.


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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> Bunker, trench, hangar, runway...Just another day in the SEA region where everyone try one up each other  Still wholefully behind China effort though.


I thought trench are obsolete


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## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> I thought trench are obsolete



Not really, trench remain a important military fortification nowadays. Certain countries even develop special method to make trench and similar contructions such as HESCO block units.

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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Visit of Iran parliament speaker Ali Ardeshir Larijan to Hanoi. Tension between Iran and Israel can torpedo the plan to buy Iran crude to build up Vietnam’s strategic crude oil and petroleum reserves of 90 days.
> 
> 
> View attachment 472574
> View attachment 472575
> View attachment 472576


Why not approaching UAE?


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> Why not approaching UAE?


I think we will. Vietnam wants 45 million barrels of crude and petrol as national strategic reserves.


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## Viet

Australia remembers the most bloodiest battle of the Vietnam war 50 years ago: the 25 day long battle of Coral-Balmora (1968).


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## Serge2018

striver44 said:


> I thought trench are obsolete



Take a look at the Russian-Ukrainian frontline and then you'll understand importance of military fortifications.

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## warzone

striver44 said:


> I thought trench are obsolete


Even today in 21st century, the trenches are the best friends of every infantrymen (especially for less equipped armies) and even tanks use sometime (to hide the tank hulls). And it also good to slow tanks and IFV advance as well…




How protect yourself on a flat terrain if you get bombarded from artillery or air or direct fire from heavy or light guns? How about ambush and hiding? Every Vietnamese infantrymen have a shovel as a standard issue equipment, the main purpose is to dig a personal trench and secondary as a combat weapon. Vietnamese soldiers are really good at building trenches and tunnels, that come with decades of war experience.








They beat the French at Dien Bien Phu bases by digging trenches very close to the French defence lines and then launched their attacks from the trenches, not like human waves some countries does all the times...LOL

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## striver44

warzone said:


> Even today in 21st century, the trenches are the best friends of every infantrymen (especially for less equipped armies) and even tanks use sometime (to hide the tank hulls). And it also good to slow tanks and IFV advance as well…
> View attachment 475351
> 
> How protect yourself on a flat terrain if you get bombarded from artillery or air or direct fire from heavy or light guns? How about ambush and hiding? Every Vietnamese infantrymen have a shovel as a standard issue equipment, the main purpose is to dig a personal trench and secondary as a combat weapon. Vietnamese soldiers are really good at building trenches and tunnels, that come with decades of war experience.
> 
> View attachment 475352
> View attachment 475354
> 
> They beat the French at Dien Bien Phu bases by digging trenches very close to the French defence lines and then launched their attacks from the trenches, not like human waves some countries does all the times...LOL


even If the trench are built in a relatively huge area and a supporting geography (like mountains,hills, high grounds) like this 





it's not going to hold much

especially if you're building a trench in an tiny island in the middle of the sea, and from the picture I saw they're building it very close to the beachhead. Considering that a likely enemy that will be invading those island is china. I don't think it's going to make any difference, the Chinese would just carpet bomb those trench.


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## Serge2018

striver44 said:


> even If the trench are built in a relatively huge area and a supporting geography (like mountains,hills, high grounds) like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's not going to hold much
> 
> especially if you're building a trench in an tiny island in the middle of the sea, and from the picture I saw they're building it very close to the beachhead. Considering that a likely enemy that will be invading those island is china. I don't think it's going to make any difference, the Chinese would just carpet bomb those trench.



That's not true. Practice shows that fortifications are still have a huge significance on the battlefield.
Btw, how do you image yourself troops in defence?

And I repeat: take a look at least few videos from the Russian-Ukrainian frontline, all questions will become irrelevant (despite there is a big lack of materials translated into English).

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## warzone

striver44 said:


> even If the trench are built in a relatively huge area and a supporting geography (like mountains,hills, high grounds) like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's not going to hold much
> 
> especially if you're building a trench in an tiny island in the middle of the sea, and from the picture I saw they're building it very close to the beachhead. Considering that a likely enemy that will be invading those island is china. I don't think it's going to make any difference, the Chinese would just carpet bomb those trench.


wow Do you have any military training to say something like that? Trust me a shit tiny hole make a huge between life and death.....Because even people with BASIC infantry training will never say something STUPID things like this 
[/QUOTE]

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## striver44

warzone said:


> wow Do you have any military training to say something like that? Trust me a shit tiny hole make a huge between life and death.....Because even people with BASIC infantry training will never say something STUPID things like this


[/QUOTE]
why so butthurt ???? well I'll just leave it here, and lets see what trenches can do against the artillery and bombing onslaught.


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> why so butthurt ???? well I'll just leave it here, and lets see what trenches can do against the artillery and bombing onslaught.


Look I am not a military man, but what do you think which infantryman will survive if a artillery granate explodes nearby?

The man in the trench or the man being exposed to the shrapnels?

It is all about increase of survivability. Of course if the enemy repeats artillery bombardments at trenches and bunkers, at some time those hideouts will be destroyed or softened.

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## striver44

Viet said:


> Look I am not a military man, but what do you think which infantryman will survive if a artillery granate explodes nearby?
> 
> The man in the trench or the man being exposed to the shrapnels?
> 
> It is all about increase of survivability. Of course if the enemy repeats artillery bombardments at trenches and bunkers, at some time those hideouts will be destroyed or softened.


ok I accept that, I'm not trying to offend anyone


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## Nilgiri

striver44 said:


> even If the trench are built in a relatively huge area and a supporting geography (like mountains,hills, high grounds) like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's not going to hold much
> 
> especially if you're building a trench in an tiny island in the middle of the sea, and from the picture I saw they're building it very close to the beachhead. Considering that a likely enemy that will be invading those island is china. I don't think it's going to make any difference, the Chinese would just carpet bomb those trench.



Sorry dude, but one thing defeats your analysis.....a competent military will evaluate its own strategies and tactics by thinking whats the worst way the enemy can attack it (and do this iteration a few times more up the chain to the relevant levels possible). Everyone that uses trenches today has factored all of those results in already, by thinking how they themselves would do their best to attack such...and hedging with all the counters available. Whatever can go through this process and still be valid/useful, will be employed....no matter how it might optically look like.

=======================================

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...xercise-with-vietnam/articleshow/64241913.cms

BTW @Viet any vietnamese news regarding this? @Viva_Viet @Aqsuperman @xiao qi 

*With an eye on China, India to hold naval exercise with Vietnam*

HIGHLIGHTS

Three Indian warships will enter the Tien Sa Port (Danang) on Monday
From May 21 to 25, there will be a professional interaction between personnel of the two navies
India is also set to train Vietnamese fighter pilots to fly the Sukhoi-30 fighter jets

NEW DELHI: India will hold its first naval exercise with Vietnam next week, as part of the overall strategy to steadily build military ties with nations in the Asia Pacific region with an eye firmly on a confrontationist and expansionist China, even as defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman is slated to visit Hanoi next month.

Three Indian warships on operational deployment to South East Asia and North West Pacific region, stealth frigate INS Sahyadri, missile corvette INS Kamorta and fleet tanker INS Shakti, will enter the Tien Sa Port (Danang) on Monday.

“From May 21 to 25, there will be a professional interaction between personnel of the two navies, official calls and interaction with dignitaries of the Vietnamese Government. On completion of the harbour phase, warships from the two navies would be undertaking the exercise,” said Navy spokesperson Captain D K Sharma.

With defence cooperation being a vital component of the “comprehensive strategic partnership” between the two countries, Sitharaman is scheduled to visit Vietnam in June to further bolster bilateral military ties. The chief of general staff of the Vietnam People's Army and the commander-in chief of Vietnam People's Navy are also slated to visit India later this year.

The two countries are wary of China’s aggressive tactics in Asia-Pacific, especially the contentious South China Sea, and have steadily cranked up their bilateral military ties over the last few years. There have also been a series of high-level visits to Vietnam, with PM Narendra Modi visiting Hanoi in September 2016 and announcing a new $500 million defence line of credit.

After inking a “joint vision statement on defence for 2015-2020” in May 2015, the two countries also decided to elevate their “strategic partnership” to “comprehensive strategic partnership” during Modi’s visit in September 2016.

India has also offered the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles as well as the Akash surface-to-air missile defence systems to Vietnam.

India is also set to train Vietnamese fighter pilots to fly the Sukhoi-30 fighter jets, much like it has been tutoring sailors from that country on the complex art of operating Kilo-class submarines for the last four years, as earlier reported by TOI.

Apart from regular port calls by warships, the Indian Navy cooperates with the Vietnam People’s Navy on a wide range of issues from operational interactions and training to logistics support and exchange of experts.

India, of course, has also stepped up defence cooperation, ranging from expansion in military visits and exercises to training and technology-sharing, with other Southeast Asian countries like Singapore, Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia.




As for the South China Sea, India has repeatedly stressed the need for all to respect the freedom of navigation in international waters, right of passage and overflight, unimpeded commerce and access to resources in accordance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.

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## Viet

Kuwaii, April 23. Chief of Kuwaii National Guards receives delegations of Vietnam, Bahrain and Turkey to Command Center drills.







US hospital ship Mercy accompanied by two other vessels - Expeditionary Fast Transport vessel USNS Brunswick (T-EPF-6) and Japanese JDS Osumi - makes Port call to Nha Trang.







Three India warships -- INS Sahyadri, INS Shakti and INS Kamorta --led by Rear Admiral Dinesh Kumar Tripathi, Flag Officer Commanding from the Eastern Fleet is to pay a visit to Da Nang.







Russia state oil company Rosneft, a crucial arm of Putin’s foreign policy, begins drilling oil offshore of Vietnam. The Chinese begin to issue war threat. The drilling is backed by the Kremlin. Let’s see if Putin can be blackmailed by Beijing.







Vietnam demands China to withdraw missiles from the outposts in the South China Sea. "Vietnam requests that China, as a large country, shows its responsibility in maintaining peace and stability in the East Sea," Vietnamese foreign ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang.

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## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> even If the trench are built in a relatively huge area and a supporting geography (like mountains,hills, high grounds) like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's not going to hold much
> 
> especially if you're building a trench in an tiny island in the middle of the sea, and from the picture I saw they're building it very close to the beachhead. Considering that a likely enemy that will be invading those island is china. I don't think it's going to make any difference, the Chinese would just carpet bomb those trench.


We have all kinds of missile to shoot down all CN jet fighter, warship. Trench is for stopping CN "human wave" tactic, missile is not good enough to stop infantry.



Nilgiri said:


> Sorry dude, but one thing defeats your analysis.....a competent military will evaluate its own strategies and tactics by thinking whats the worst way the enemy can attack it (and do this iteration a few times more up the chain to the relevant levels possible). Everyone that uses trenches today has factored all of those results in already, by thinking how they themselves would do their best to attack such...and hedging with all the counters available. Whatever can go through this process and still be valid/useful, will be employed....no matter how it might optically look like.
> 
> =======================================
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...xercise-with-vietnam/articleshow/64241913.cms
> 
> BTW @Viet any vietnamese news regarding this? @Viva_Viet @Aqsuperman @xiao qi
> 
> *With an eye on China, India to hold naval exercise with Vietnam*
> 
> HIGHLIGHTS
> 
> Three Indian warships will enter the Tien Sa Port (Danang) on Monday
> From May 21 to 25, there will be a professional interaction between personnel of the two navies
> India is also set to train Vietnamese fighter pilots to fly the Sukhoi-30 fighter jets
> 
> NEW DELHI: India will hold its first naval exercise with Vietnam next week, as part of the overall strategy to steadily build military ties with nations in the Asia Pacific region with an eye firmly on a confrontationist and expansionist China, even as defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman is slated to visit Hanoi next month.
> 
> Three Indian warships on operational deployment to South East Asia and North West Pacific region, stealth frigate INS Sahyadri, missile corvette INS Kamorta and fleet tanker INS Shakti, will enter the Tien Sa Port (Danang) on Monday.
> 
> “From May 21 to 25, there will be a professional interaction between personnel of the two navies, official calls and interaction with dignitaries of the Vietnamese Government. On completion of the harbour phase, warships from the two navies would be undertaking the exercise,” said Navy spokesperson Captain D K Sharma.
> 
> With defence cooperation being a vital component of the “comprehensive strategic partnership” between the two countries, Sitharaman is scheduled to visit Vietnam in June to further bolster bilateral military ties. The chief of general staff of the Vietnam People's Army and the commander-in chief of Vietnam People's Navy are also slated to visit India later this year.
> 
> The two countries are wary of China’s aggressive tactics in Asia-Pacific, especially the contentious South China Sea, and have steadily cranked up their bilateral military ties over the last few years. There have also been a series of high-level visits to Vietnam, with PM Narendra Modi visiting Hanoi in September 2016 and announcing a new $500 million defence line of credit.
> 
> After inking a “joint vision statement on defence for 2015-2020” in May 2015, the two countries also decided to elevate their “strategic partnership” to “comprehensive strategic partnership” during Modi’s visit in September 2016.
> 
> India has also offered the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles as well as the Akash surface-to-air missile defence systems to Vietnam.
> 
> India is also set to train Vietnamese fighter pilots to fly the Sukhoi-30 fighter jets, much like it has been tutoring sailors from that country on the complex art of operating Kilo-class submarines for the last four years, as earlier reported by TOI.
> 
> Apart from regular port calls by warships, the Indian Navy cooperates with the Vietnam People’s Navy on a wide range of issues from operational interactions and training to logistics support and exchange of experts.
> 
> India, of course, has also stepped up defence cooperation, ranging from expansion in military visits and exercises to training and technology-sharing, with other Southeast Asian countries like Singapore, Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the South China Sea, India has repeatedly stressed the need for all to respect the freedom of navigation in international waters, right of passage and overflight, unimpeded commerce and access to resources in accordance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.


Yep, we heard the news, but VN news dont say much just to avoid CN anger

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## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> We have all kinds of missile to shoot down all CN jet fighter, warship.


Ohhhhhh yeahhhh?? I dont think so


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## Viet

Shooting exercise with half automatic artilley















Onboard of cadett training sailship 286 Lê Quý Đôn






















the sailship visit to the Philippines


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## Aqsuperman

Nilgiri said:


> Sorry dude, but one thing defeats your analysis.....a competent military will evaluate its own strategies and tactics by thinking whats the worst way the enemy can attack it (and do this iteration a few times more up the chain to the relevant levels possible). Everyone that uses trenches today has factored all of those results in already, by thinking how they themselves would do their best to attack such...and hedging with all the counters available. Whatever can go through this process and still be valid/useful, will be employed....no matter how it might optically look like.
> 
> =======================================
> 
> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...xercise-with-vietnam/articleshow/64241913.cms
> 
> BTW @Viet any vietnamese news regarding this? @Viva_Viet @Aqsuperman @xiao qi
> 
> *With an eye on China, India to hold naval exercise with Vietnam*
> 
> HIGHLIGHTS
> 
> Three Indian warships will enter the Tien Sa Port (Danang) on Monday
> From May 21 to 25, there will be a professional interaction between personnel of the two navies
> India is also set to train Vietnamese fighter pilots to fly the Sukhoi-30 fighter jets
> 
> NEW DELHI: India will hold its first naval exercise with Vietnam next week, as part of the overall strategy to steadily build military ties with nations in the Asia Pacific region with an eye firmly on a confrontationist and expansionist China, even as defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman is slated to visit Hanoi next month.
> 
> Three Indian warships on operational deployment to South East Asia and North West Pacific region, stealth frigate INS Sahyadri, missile corvette INS Kamorta and fleet tanker INS Shakti, will enter the Tien Sa Port (Danang) on Monday.
> 
> “From May 21 to 25, there will be a professional interaction between personnel of the two navies, official calls and interaction with dignitaries of the Vietnamese Government. On completion of the harbour phase, warships from the two navies would be undertaking the exercise,” said Navy spokesperson Captain D K Sharma.
> 
> With defence cooperation being a vital component of the “comprehensive strategic partnership” between the two countries, Sitharaman is scheduled to visit Vietnam in June to further bolster bilateral military ties. The chief of general staff of the Vietnam People's Army and the commander-in chief of Vietnam People's Navy are also slated to visit India later this year.
> 
> The two countries are wary of China’s aggressive tactics in Asia-Pacific, especially the contentious South China Sea, and have steadily cranked up their bilateral military ties over the last few years. There have also been a series of high-level visits to Vietnam, with PM Narendra Modi visiting Hanoi in September 2016 and announcing a new $500 million defence line of credit.
> 
> After inking a “joint vision statement on defence for 2015-2020” in May 2015, the two countries also decided to elevate their “strategic partnership” to “comprehensive strategic partnership” during Modi’s visit in September 2016.
> 
> India has also offered the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles as well as the Akash surface-to-air missile defence systems to Vietnam.
> 
> India is also set to train Vietnamese fighter pilots to fly the Sukhoi-30 fighter jets, much like it has been tutoring sailors from that country on the complex art of operating Kilo-class submarines for the last four years, as earlier reported by TOI.
> 
> Apart from regular port calls by warships, the Indian Navy cooperates with the Vietnam People’s Navy on a wide range of issues from operational interactions and training to logistics support and exchange of experts.
> 
> India, of course, has also stepped up defence cooperation, ranging from expansion in military visits and exercises to training and technology-sharing, with other Southeast Asian countries like Singapore, Myanmar, Malaysia and Indonesia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the South China Sea, India has repeatedly stressed the need for all to respect the freedom of navigation in international waters, right of passage and overflight, unimpeded commerce and access to resources in accordance with the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.



For now, there is only a confirmation that there is going to be a naval excercise between the Indian ships and two ships from Vietnam People Navy. We don't have anything solid yet but given the scale of the visit, I think the ships mentioned are going to Gepards, probably the newest pair: HQ-15 Tran Hung Dao and HQ-16 Quang Trung. Oh and here are some pictures of the receiving ceremony.

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## Indos

Hai @Viet and @Aqsuperman 

How are you buddies ?  

Why there is still few Vietnamese in PDF ? I left PDF 1,5 year ago and now Vietnam Defence Forum is still quite empty. I though many Vietnamese now have high speed internet access. 

You lost @William Hung here, he is quite a good defender of Vietnam in PDF 

Thanks for APEC 2017

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## Aqsuperman

Indos said:


> Hai @Viet and @Aqsuperman
> 
> How are you buddies ?
> 
> Why there is still few Vietnamese in PDF ? I left PDF 1,5 year ago and now Vietnam Defence Forum is still quite empty. I though many Vietnamese now have high speed internet access.
> 
> You lost @William Hung here, he is quite a good defender of Vietnam in PDF
> 
> Thanks for APEC 2017



We have up and down, I guess. Military is not exactly a hot topic in my country.

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## Trango Towers

Aqsuperman said:


> We have up and down, I guess. Military is not exactly a hot topic in my country.


In Vietnam now as I type this. On a bus to Chau Doc. Cambodia tomorrow. I seen the suffering of your people from the Americans. May you never have another war. Love Vietnam. Love the people

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## Viva_Viet

snow lake said:


> In Vietnam now as I type this. On a bus to Chau Doc. Cambodia tomorrow. I seen the suffering of your people from the Americans. May you never have another war. Love Vietnam. Love the people


After 20 year in war agaisnt US till 1975, VN also sufferred US-CN sanction till 1990 (year of Soviet collapse). Thats the price for a small country but wanna live in independence, bro.

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## Trango Towers

Viva_Viet said:


> After 20 year in war agaisnt US till 1975, VN also sufferred US-CN sanction till 1990 (year of Soviet collapse). Thats the price for a small country but wanna live in independence, bro.


I went to the remenent museum I Saigon I was so angry. Waned to cry.
Americans are evil


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## Viet

Indos said:


> Hai @Viet and @Aqsuperman
> 
> How are you buddies ?
> 
> Why there is still few Vietnamese in PDF ? I left PDF 1,5 year ago and now Vietnam Defence Forum is still quite empty. I though many Vietnamese now have high speed internet access.
> 
> You lost @William Hung here, he is quite a good defender of Vietnam in PDF
> 
> Thanks for APEC 2017


WH is the worst troller I have ever seen. He probably spends hours reading all of my posts to seek unsharp statements and begins debates about it. Once he claims Vietnamese people come from the Khmer land because I post a report from the Havard medical school stating the Viet came from Taiwan based on genetic evidences.

I guess you like him because he finds Muslim people “cool”. Ok.

Viet people generally hate militarism. We are proud of the army, our major streets are named after the national heroes, but we rarely talk about military in daily life.

There were more Viet posters in the past, they are not interested of anymore. Understandable, the Chinese have turned a discussion forum into trash bin.

Vietnam military spending in absolute sum is among the lowest in the world. Considering the threat we are facing, our spending is rediculous.

More rediculous: we are not in any military pact. No wonder the Chinese clowns threaten Vietnam with war in regular interval.

In respect to Indonesia, I find your country does little to nothing to maintain peace in the region. Very regrettable.

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## Indos

Viet said:


> WH is the worst troller I have ever seen. He probably spends hours reading all of my posts to seek unsharp statements and begins debates about it. Once he claims Vietnamese people come from the Khmer land because I post a report from the Havard medical school stating the Viet came from Taiwan based on genetic evidences.
> 
> I guess you like him because he finds Muslim people “cool”. Ok.
> 
> Viet people generally hate militarism. We are proud of the army, our major streets are named after the national heroes, but we rarely talk about military in daily life.
> 
> There were more Viet posters in the past, they are not interested of anymore. Understandable, the Chinese have turned a discussion forum into trash bin.
> 
> Vietnam military spending in absolute sum is among the lowest in the world. Considering the threat we are facing, our spending is rediculous.
> 
> More rediculous: we are not in any military pact. No wonder the Chinese clowns threaten Vietnam with war in regular interval.



I also see @BoQ77 is still banned. Carlosa is absent either. Actually, there are many good Vietnamese writer in Quora.

Ya, I guest Indonesia doesnt want to act alone. Today China has become the other SEA members as well with his militarized man made island. By the way, Indonesia under Jokowi is still much better than during Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. You can check on this:

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/jakarta-pushes-for-patrols-by-s-e-asian-nations-in-south-china-sea

PUBLISHED
MAR 17, 2018

SYDNEY • Indonesia has lobbied South-east Asian countries to carry out maritime patrols in the disputed South China Sea, claimed in most part by China, to improve security, Defence Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said yesterday.

Indonesia said it is a non-claimant state in the South China Sea dispute. However, it has clashed with China over fishing rights around the Natuna Islands, and has expanded its military presence in the area. It has also renamed the northern reaches of its exclusive economic zone, asserting its own maritime claim.

Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and Defence Minister Marise Payne held talks yesterday with their Indonesian counterparts Retno Marsudi and Mr Ryacudu in Sydney, ahead of an Asean summit starting today.

"For the South China Sea, I went around to friends - Asean defence ministers - so that each country that faces the South China Sea patrols up to 200 nautical miles, around 230km," Mr Ryacudu told reporters at a joint press conference.

Indonesia is focusing on three areas, notably the Sulu Sea, the Malacca Strait and the seas around the coast of Thailand, Mr Ryacudu said, referring to existing cooperation with Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia and the Philippines.

"If we look at the (borders) from Vietnam down to Indonesia and to the Philippines, we can see we have secured almost half of the South China Sea (in areas) we are already patrolling," he said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

And Australia has rejected the idea last year 

MARCH 7, 2017 / 10:23 AM / A YEAR AGO

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-indonesia-australia-idUSKBN16E0D0

In an interview with the Australian newspaper last month, Indonesian President Joko Widodo said he would like to see joint patrols and intended to raise the idea with Turnbull, but only if it did not further inflame tensions with China.


“We are not going to undertake any actions which would increase tensions in the South China Sea,” said Turnbull, when asked by a reporter whether Indonesia had raised the prospect of conducting joint patrols.


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## Viet

Indos said:


> I also see @BoQ77 is still banned. Carlosa is absent either. Actually, there are many good Vietnamese writer in Quora.
> 
> Ya, I guest Indonesia doesnt want to act alone. Today China has become the other SEA members as well with his militarized man made island. By the way, Indonesia under Jokowi is still much better than during Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. You can check on this:
> 
> https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/jakarta-pushes-for-patrols-by-s-e-asian-nations-in-south-china-sea
> 
> PUBLISHED
> MAR 17, 2018
> 
> SYDNEY • Indonesia has lobbied South-east Asian countries to carry out maritime patrols in the disputed South China Sea, claimed in most part by China, to improve security, Defence Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said yesterday.
> 
> Indonesia said it is a non-claimant state in the South China Sea dispute. However, it has clashed with China over fishing rights around the Natuna Islands, and has expanded its military presence in the area. It has also renamed the northern reaches of its exclusive economic zone, asserting its own maritime claim.
> 
> Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and Defence Minister Marise Payne held talks yesterday with their Indonesian counterparts Retno Marsudi and Mr Ryacudu in Sydney, ahead of an Asean summit starting today.
> 
> "For the South China Sea, I went around to friends - Asean defence ministers - so that each country that faces the South China Sea patrols up to 200 nautical miles, around 230km," Mr Ryacudu told reporters at a joint press conference.
> 
> Indonesia is focusing on three areas, notably the Sulu Sea, the Malacca Strait and the seas around the coast of Thailand, Mr Ryacudu said, referring to existing cooperation with Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia and the Philippines.
> 
> "If we look at the (borders) from Vietnam down to Indonesia and to the Philippines, we can see we have secured almost half of the South China Sea (in areas) we are already patrolling," he said.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> And Australia has rejected the idea last year
> 
> MARCH 7, 2017 / 10:23 AM / A YEAR AGO
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-indonesia-australia-idUSKBN16E0D0
> 
> In an interview with the Australian newspaper last month, Indonesian President Joko Widodo said he would like to see joint patrols and intended to raise the idea with Turnbull, but only if it did not further inflame tensions with China.
> 
> 
> “We are not going to undertake any actions which would increase tensions in the South China Sea,” said Turnbull, when asked by a reporter whether Indonesia had raised the prospect of conducting joint patrols.


Carlosa is on Twitter. BoQ is banned forever because he repeatedly offened the Chinese especially the German Mod guy. I had appealed him several times to stop but he refused to listen. Trolling is ok but what he did was ways too much. When I troll the Chinese, they even don’t notice it.

Big country should shoulder big responsibility. So should Indonesia and Australia. But both do too little. It can’t be that Vietnam holds the first line and the last line of defense.

The rise of Rome collided with the hegemony of Carthago. If the rise of China can’t be checked, we ALL would be doomed. Vietnam and Indonesia. So the fate of Carthago.

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## Viva_Viet

snow lake said:


> I went to the remenent museum I Saigon I was so angry. Waned to cry.
> Americans are evil


We r living in dog eat dog world. all invaders, including CN, is evil, bro

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## Trango Towers

Viva_Viet said:


> We r living in dog eat dog world. all invaders, including CN, is evil, bro


Every man had the right to live free. No country should invade another.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Carlosa is on Twitter. BoQ is banned forever because he repeatedly offened the Chinese especially the German Mod guy. I had appealed him several times to stop but he refused to listen. Trolling is ok but what he did was ways too much. When I troll the Chinese, they even don’t notice it.
> 
> Big country should shoulder big responsibility. So should Indonesia and Australia. But both do too little. It can’t be that Vietnam holds the first line and the last line of defense.
> 
> The rise of Rome collided with the hegemony of Carthago. If the rise of China can’t be checked, we ALL would be doomed. Vietnam and Indonesia. So the fate of Carthago.


Aussie start buying more seafood, fruit, steel from VN as both VN-Aussia are TPP members, things getting better now, bro

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## Viet

Oil tanker INS Shakti of India Navy anchores at Tien Sa Port in Da Nang city.

According to latest statistics, Vietnam has about 4 billion tons of crude oil and gas reserves in the waters. so about 33.8 billion barrels.






Japanese warship JS Osumi (4001) anchores at Cam Ranh bay.






US hospital ship USNS Mercy anchores at Nha Trang bay.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Viva_Viet said:


> Aussie start buying more seafood, fruit, steel from VN as both VN-Aussia are TPP members, things getting better now, bro



Aussies are now begging for mercy.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/asia/australia-china-turnbull-visit-intl/index.html

How about you to first protect your own fishermen from Duterte's law enforcers?


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## jhungary

snow lake said:


> I went to the remenent museum I Saigon I was so angry. Waned to cry.
> Americans are evil



Did you go to Hanoi Chinese War Crime museum? You should go there and have a visit, you can see not just the American did horrible stuff to Vietnamese, the Chinese did it too, in some case, even more horrible than the American.

Or you can just ask any Vietnamese member.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Aussies are now begging for mercy.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/asia/australia-china-turnbull-visit-intl/index.html
> 
> How about you to first protect your own fishermen from Duterte's law enforcers?



LOL

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## IblinI

jhungary said:


> Did you go to Hanoi Chinese War Crime museum? You should go there and have a visit, you can see not just the American did horrible stuff to Vietnamese, the Chinese did it too, in some case, even more horrible than the American.
> 
> Or you can just ask any Vietnamese member.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Remnants_Museum
Its original name was Exhibition house for US and Puppet Crimes, you figure it out.


----------



## jhungary

YuChen said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Remnants_Museum
> Its original name was Exhibition house for US and Puppet Crimes, you figure it out.



That's the one in Ho Chi Ming City (Saigon) the one I was referring to is in Hanoi, it's about Chinese war crime committed during the 1979 Chinese Invasion

P.S. they have a name which I forgot, but I know it was about War Crime committed by Chinese troop during the 1979 border conflict.


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## IblinI

jhungary said:


> That's the one in Ho Chi Ming City (Saigon) the one I was referring to is in Hanoi, it's about Chinese war crime committed during the 1979 Chinese Invasion
> 
> P.S. they have a name which I forgot, but I know it was about War Crime committed by Chinese troop during the 1979 border conflict.


Link?


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## jhungary

YuChen said:


> Link?



I can't link you when I don't remember the name of that place.

You probably will get better luck to Vietnamese member, I don't speak Vietnamese and I had not live in Vietnam in my life, I have been Hanoi a few time for visit, that's it.


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## Viva_Viet

jhungary said:


> I can't link you when I don't remember the name of that place.
> 
> You probably will get better luck to Vietnamese member, I don't speak Vietnamese and I had not live in Vietnam in my life, I have been Hanoi a few time for visit, that's it.


Its Vn military history museum

The *Viet Nam Military History Museum*, set up on 17 July 1956, is one of seven national museums in Vietnam. It covers 12,800 m2. It is situated in central Hanoi, opposite the Lenin Park and near the Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum. The Flag Tower of Hanoi is located inside of the museum grounds.

28A Dien Bien Phu Road, Ba Dinh district, HaNoi, Phone (+84-4) - 38234264

Entrance is 40,000 VND, 30,000 for cameras.

Museum is currently not open on Monday and Friday and closes for lunch between 11:30 and 13:00

Opening Hours 8h00 - 11h30 and 13h00 - 16h00


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## jhungary

Viva_Viet said:


> Its Vn military history museum
> 
> The *Viet Nam Military History Museum*, set up on 17 July 1956, is one of seven national museums in Vietnam. It covers 12,800 m2. It is situated in central Hanoi, opposite the Lenin Park and near the Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum. The Flag Tower of Hanoi is located inside of the museum grounds.
> 
> 28A Dien Bien Phu Road, Ba Dinh district, HaNoi, Phone (+84-4) - 38234264
> 
> Entrance is 40,000 VND, 30,000 for cameras.
> 
> Museum is currently not open on Monday and Friday and closes for lunch between 11:30 and 13:00
> 
> Opening Hours 8h00 - 11h30 and 13h00 - 16h00




Thanks


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## Viva_Viet

jhungary said:


> Thanks


But the space for 1979 war is small cos Vn dont want higher tension wt CN now.


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## Viva_Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Aussies are now begging for mercy.
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/asia/australia-china-turnbull-visit-intl/index.html
> 
> How about you to first protect your own fishermen from Duterte's law enforcers?



Aussies are now begging for mercy.?? wow, keep that idea to make yourself happy. VN-Aussia just enhance the relationship thanks to TPP

----------------------

*Governor General of Australia to visit Việt Nam*
Update: May, 23/2018 - 09:00
image: http://vietnamnews.vn//images/icon/icon_print.gif



image: http://vietnamnews.vn//images/icon/icon_letter.gif






image: http://image.vietnamnews.vn//uploadvnnews/Article/2018/5/22/ToanquyenUC59384155PM.jpg





Governor General of Australia Peter Cosgrove. — VNA/VNS Photo
Viet Nam News
HÀ NỘI — At the invitation of President Trần Đại Quang, the Governor General of Australia Peter Cosgrove and his wife Lynne Cosgrove will pay a State visit to Việt Nam from Wednesday to Saturday. The visit also marks the 45th anniversary of the two countries’ diplomatic relations (1973-2018).

The visit will be an opportunity to review the robust bilateral relationship between Việt Nam and Australia, which was upgraded to strategic partnership status in March 2018 when Prime Minister Nguyễn Xuân Phúc visited Australia.

During the last 45 years, Việt Nam and Australia have built a strong partnership with the establishment of comprehensive partnership in 2009. They signed a declaration on enhancing bilateral comprehensive partnership in 2015.

*Trade and economic partnership is a key component of bilateral ties, with trade revenue increasing 200 times since 1990 to reach US$6.46 billion in 2017 and expected to hit $10 billion in 2020. *

Australia currently ranks 19th out of 116 foreign investors in Việt Nam with a total investment of $1.82 billion in 396 projects. T*he two sides have signed the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP)* and actively engage in negotiations on the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP).

Australia has been a regular ODA provider in various fields, including infrastructure, poverty reduction, innovation, climate change response, gender equality and startup support.

The two sides have also worked together on security and national defence, to fight international crime syndicates, illegal immigration, and the removal of unexploded ordnance (UXO). Australian navy ships have been paying frequent visits to Vietnamese ports with the latest call made in June last year. The Việt Nam-Australia Joint Transnational Crime Centre based in HCM City is an effort to exchange information to fight terrorism, human trafficking and drugs.

Việt Nam and Australia are close partners in both international and regional forums such as ASEAN, East Asia Summit, Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation and the UN.

Australian tourists to Việt Nam have increased, reaching over 370,500 in 2017, making it one of the 10 leading sources of visitors to the country.

Australia is currently home to 30,000 Vietnamese students. Meanwhile, Việt Nam is also one of the five popular options for study of Australian students.

Along with economic cooperation, Việt Nam and Australia have enjoyed effective affiliation in all fields of politics-diplomacy, security-defence, science-technology and culture-education.


Read more at http://vietnamnews.vn/politics-laws...ia-to-visit-viet-nam.html#tbybmzd4Cgj4qE38.99


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## Viet

Interesting events

Commander of Vietnam Air Force together with 20 other countries will meet for a 3 day summit in Herzliya (Israel). IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Gadi Eisenkot at the IDF’s Kirya military headquarters will greet the Air Force commanders to a show of force of Israeli Air Force. Participation of F-35i stealth fighter jets included.

https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Bon...force-conference-kicks-off-in-Herzliya-557974







A group of US student pilots will visit Vietnam in Summer, says Vice Superintendent of US Air Force Academy Colonel David Harris. Maybe a super opportunity to stage Top Gun dog fight scenes.







With the increase of Chinese air planes in the South China Sea, Vietnam must prepare for the scenario that China establishes ADIZ in the region, says Major general Nguyen Hong Quan of Vietnamese Armed Forces.

Not a bad idea if Vietnam establishes own ADIZ and steps up military buildup in response.

Joining a military pact is still in the table.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Interesting events
> 
> Commander of Vietnam Air Force together with 20 other countries will meet for a 3 day summit in Herzliya (Israel). IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Gadi Eisenkot at the IDF’s Kirya military headquarters will greet the Air Force commanders to a show of force of Israeli Air Force. Participation of F-35i stealth fighter jets included.
> 
> https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Bon...force-conference-kicks-off-in-Herzliya-557974
> 
> View attachment 476396
> 
> 
> 
> A group of US student pilots will visit Vietnam in Summer, says Vice Superintendent of US Air Force Academy Colonel David Harris. Maybe a super opportunity to stage Top Gun dog fight scenes.
> 
> View attachment 476399
> 
> 
> 
> With the increase of Chinese air planes in the South China Sea, Vietnam must prepare for the scenario that China establishes ADIZ in the region, says Major general Nguyen Hong Quan of Vietnamese Armed Forces.
> 
> Not a bad idea if Vietnam establishes own ADIZ and steps up military buildup in response.
> 
> Joining a military pact is still in the table.
> 
> View attachment 476400


US-SK-JP suffer the most to CN ADIZ in the region. If they want our help, then they need to help Vn more.

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> US-SK-JP suffer the most to CN ADIZ in the region. If they want our help, then they need to help Vn more.


Yes especially the Japanese. I wonder why they are too passive? They are stucked in the pacific constitution apparently. Vietnam should acquire more firepower by increasing the number of submarines. Bringing more funs to the Sea.

Z189 - Hải Phòng Shipyard constructs one more submarine rescue vessel.

Code name MSSARS 9316.

Length 93 m; wide 16 m; crew 113 người; weight 3,950 tons. Completion in 27 months.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Yes especially the Japanese. I wonder why they are too passive? They are stucked in the pacific constitution apparently. Vietnam should acquire more firepower by increasing the number of submarines. Bringing more funs to the Sea.
> 
> Z189 - Hải Phòng Shipyard constructs one more submarine rescue vessel.
> 
> Code name MSSARS 9316.
> 
> Length 93 m; wide 16 m; crew 113 người; weight 3,950 tons. Completion in 27 months.
> 
> View attachment 476440
> 
> 
> View attachment 476443


Maybe JP population is just too old to do some hard work now, not mentioning that JP become so coward after surrender in WW2


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## Feng Leng

After so much Viet boasting, PLAAF attacked and killed Viet frogmen near Paracels!

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/viet...ted-chinese-bomb-attack-near-paracels.560365/


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## Viva_Viet

Feng Leng said:


> After so much Viet boasting, PLAAF attacked and killed Viet frogmen near Paracels!
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/viet...ted-chinese-bomb-attack-near-paracels.560365/


Thats normal, soldiers are born to kill and be killed. And ppl can see VN soldiers are always brave and fight to death.

btw : its not bomb, its just like sea mine.

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## Feng Leng

Viva_Viet said:


> Thats normal, soldiers are born to kill and be killed. And ppl can see VN soldiers are always brave and fight to death.
> 
> btw : its not bomb, its just like sea mine.


Viet soldiers are born to be killed in a human wave! They cannot even touch our H-6K! Just like March 14, 1988. Now, 30 years later, Viet have another glorious human wave defeat!

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## Viva_Viet

Feng Leng said:


> Viet soldiers are born to be killed in a human wave! They cannot even touch our H-6K! Just like March 14, 1988. Now, 30 years later, Viet have another glorious human wave defeat!


Only useless rock and your stupid bomber there, boring. Our soldiers just did their jobs and die in the mission.

Keep living in your barren land and dirty desert. Our brave men will kill u like dogs if u try to take our fertile land in VN-Laos-Camb (PLA just too coward to fight wt Vn troops there)

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## Nike

CN 212i patroller of Vietnam armed forces, had been spotted in Vietnam. 
Vietnam has taken delivery of two NC-212i aircraft from Indonesia with photos showing #8891 and #8892 at Gia Lam airport.




Photo source unknown

The aircraft arrived from Indoensia on May 22. A total of three aircraft were ordered.


Source

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## warzone

Feng Leng said:


> Viet soldiers are born to be killed in a human wave! They cannot even touch our H-6K! Just like March 14, 1988. Now, 30 years later, Viet have another glorious human wave defeat!


LOL ... Human waves infantry attacks are the speciality of the PLA... Can you remind me how many PLA troop were killed in the Korea war (couple millions!?!) and PLA regulars killed on Viet Nam border in 1979 (against mostly border troop and paramilitary units...hahaha)? At least say THANK YOU to VN, we teach a big lesson in 1979 that human waves are useless and then PLA started it modernization as we know today. Show a little bit of appreciation.









Oh please! 1988 was 80 something dumb VN soldiers (most of them unarmed) standing on rocks and got shot by brave PLA soldiers on gunboats. If that incidence is so meaningful for PLA and make them so proud then it tell a lot about the combat experience and courage of PLA (haha!!!). Like I said before, everytime PLA make a threat everybody is so SCARE...LOL.

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## IblinI

warzone said:


> LOL ... Human waves infantry attacks are the speciality of the PLA... Can you remind me how many PLA troop were killed in the Korea war (couple millions!?!) and PLA regulars killed on Viet Nam border in 1979 (against mostly border troop and paramilitary units...hahaha)? At least say THANK YOU to VN, we teach a big lesson in 1979 that human waves are useless and then PLA started it modernization as we know today. Show a little bit of appreciation.
> View attachment 476703
> 
> View attachment 476704
> 
> Oh please! 1988 was 80 something dumb VN soldiers (most of them unarmed) standing on rocks and got shot with by brave PLA soldiers on gunboats. Like I said before, everytime PLA make a threat everybody is so SCARE...LOL.


PLA starts from zero and used "Human wave" tactic and becomes what it is today,nice logic there,I should give you a round of applause.


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## warzone

YuChen said:


> PLA starts from zero and used "Human wave" tactic and becomes what it is today,nice logic there,I should give you a round of applause.


So now you admit that human waves are PLA tactics ...LOL !!! Ok, now that PLA don't use anymore human waves attacks can you tell me what their military achievements since 1979...???? NADA...lol... !!! I know one big PLA military success since 1979, it's when the PLA massacre thousands of unarmed students in Tia Nan Men Square 1989....Now we know why every country is scare of the killer PLA when it make threats...LOL

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## IblinI

warzone said:


> So now you admit that human waves are PLA tactics ...LOL !!! Ok, now that PLA don't use anymore human waves attacks can you tell me what their military achievements since 1979...???? NADA...lol... !!! I know one big PLA military success since 1979, it's when the PLA massacre thousands of unarmed students in Tia Nan Men Square 1989....Now we know why every country is scare of the killer PLA when it make threats...LOL


Read again, Mr Logic, and no reply needed.


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## warzone

YuChen said:


> Read again, Mr Logic, and no reply needed.


Haha I understand your childish logic... When you run out of arguments and lack of facts, the hole is getting deeper... And it going to take time for the best warrior of China @YuChen to crawl out of the darkness of misinformation, dilusional and mirage of the real might of PLA ..lol... I really don't want to see you cry like a little girl when you going to realize that PLA can't even invade Taiwan (without exposing the India, VN and Japan flanks...) ...lol

By the way @YuChen , is @Feng Leng is your boyfriend? Why replying for him or her? I am very sad, you already a married woman

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## Viet

The incoming Vietnam/Japan summit will be interesting. A Vietnamese delegation led by State President is scheduled to meet with the Emperor of Japan. In an interview with Japanese media before departing to Tokyo, Vietnam urges Japan to play a more active role in the South China Sea.

In clear text, Japan should accelerate the military buildup and deploy Naval and Air forces to the region.







Making history. Lieutenant General of the Air Force Pham Tuan on July 23, 1980, became the first Vietnamese and the first Asian to travel into space. It took nine minutes for the spaceship to enter the orbit and one day for the two astronauts to dock at Salyut 6, a Soviet orbital space station. Tuan spent 8 days in the orbit.

Too bad, the USSR collapsed leaving Vietnam vulnerable to enemy attack.










Julia Bishop, Australia foreign office minister, is scheduled to pay a visit. She says despite different political systems, Australia and Vietnam share the same strategic interests. She will also open a new bridge over the Meking, the Cao Lanh Bridge. Australia finances the brigde with over $160 millions in non refundable aid.

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## Viet

Vietnam’s bid for a non-permanent seat at the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) for 2020-2021 tenure is backed by 54 nation Asia-Pacific grouping.

Vietnam entrance into the most powerful UN body is certain.

An interesting study by University of Pennsylvania shows, there is a correlation between World Bank loan/aid and UNSC membership. Nation being member of UNSC gets much more supports from the US controlled World Bank than without.







http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/05...eceive-world-bank-loans-united-states-mexico/


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## Viet

Wonderful: US guided missile cruiser Antietam, accompanied by a destroyer, came within 12 miles of Paracel islands. Not far from there, US company ExxonMobil is on track to start the biggest ever gas exploration for Vietnam by next year.

I think the Spanish oil company Repsol accompanied by Spanish warships should return and drill oil for Vietnam.

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam People navy HQ-18 ( Ex-Pohang corvette) after overhaul. The only ship in the country navy that is not from Russia or leftover of the defunded Republic of Vietnam Navy. On a side note: Vietnam Coast guard receive a lot of ship from Korea, US and Japan. In fact, the total tonage of the VCG is much larger than the VPN.

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## fadine

Vietnam starts building the first submarine rescue-ship

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## Viet

*Welcome ceremony for Vietnam President at Tokyo Imperial Palace*

By Japanese Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko on May 30.

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## Viet

Maybe a coincidence: Vietnam announces on the same day the start of a North/South HSR rail study with the construction to start in 2020. with Japanese or Korea technology or other western nations.

Nice: Crown Prince Naruhito and his wife Crown Princess Masako also attend the welcome greetings. Prime minister Abe and other cabinet members are present too.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Maybe a coincidence: Vietnam announces on the same day the start of a North/South HSR rail study with the construction to start in 2020. with Japanese or Korea technology or other western nations.
> 
> Nice: Crown Prince Naruhito and his wife Crown Princess Masako also attend the welcome greetings. Prime minister Abe and other cabinet members are present too.
> 
> View attachment 477612
> View attachment 477611



If you go for Japan in the end, there should be Japan-VN-India collaboration hopefully to achieve the best economies of scale possible for HSR....because the Japanese tech is where India is commited to for its HSR plans too.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Maybe a coincidence: Vietnam announces on the same day the start of a North/South HSR rail study with the construction to start in 2020. with Japanese or Korea technology or *other western nation*s.
> 
> Nice: Crown Prince Naruhito and his wife Crown Princess Masako also attend the welcome greetings. Prime minister Abe and other cabinet members are present too.
> 
> View attachment 477612
> View attachment 477611


Yeah. I love HSR tech from *other western nation*s. 

Actually, JP just bought tech from German-France and build up her industry, so it'd better for VN to buy the original HSR high tech from german-france if JP dont wanna help.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> If you go for Japan in the end, there should be Japan-VN-India collaboration hopefully to achieve the best economies of scale possible for HSR....because the Japanese tech is where India is commited to for its HSR plans too.





Viva_Viet said:


> Yeah. I love HSR tech from *other western nation*s.
> 
> Actually, JP just bought tech from German-France and build up her industry, so it'd better for VN to buy the original HSR high tech from german-france if JP dont wanna help.


I hope we can join build with the Japanese if not then it’s not the end of the world. we will find another partners. Vietnam/Japan/India can join produce parts, wherever economically sense. We build the first domestic cars by hiring German technology companies. We can continue with rail.

The most important thing whether Japan or Germany is we have access to technology and can import all necessary machinery.

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## Viet

*China out, Vietnam and Israel in for RIMPAC 2018*

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/navy-china-out-vietnam-and-israel-in-for-rimpac-2018-1.530220








Pham Quang Vinh, the US ambassador to the United States meets with Pentagon Chief James Mattis. Vietnam urges the US do more for peace and stability in the region. In clear text: Vietnam urges the US to step up military presence. Vietnam trust to the Chinese is below freezing point.

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## Viet

Time to say Goodbye. Probably the last state banquet of the Emperor of Japan before his resignation from the throne next year in April. Japan plans to welcome no any more state guests prior to the Akihito abdication. Interesting: Akihito asks if the Vietnamese people living in Japan are happy?

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## Viet

U.S mulls over handing trainer aircraft to Vietnam





https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/u-s-mulls-over-handing-trainer-aircraft-to-vietnam-3757698.html


South China Sea Showdown: How Vietnam Would Wage War Against China

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...down-how-vietnam-would-wage-war-against-25931

Land based P18 AShM

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## xiao qi

Viet said:


> U.S mulls over handing trainer aircraft to Vietnam
> 
> View attachment 477963
> 
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/u-s-mulls-over-handing-trainer-aircraft-to-vietnam-3757698.html
> 
> 
> South China Sea Showdown: How Vietnam Would Wage War Against China
> 
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...down-how-vietnam-would-wage-war-against-25931
> 
> Land based P18 AShM
> 
> View attachment 477964


Likely we will buy F16 from US in the next time

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## Viet

xiao qi said:


> Likely we will buy F16 from US in the next time


Yes F16 and more firepower thru more other lethal military equipment plus more increasing cooperations with other armies as the US, Japan, France und UK. More are necessary to deter and it necessary to defeat aggression.


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## Viet

What’s the distance between France and Vietnam?

France vessel Surcouf commanded by Lt. Trung tá Christine Ribbe pays a visit to the port of Saigon.













The distance between India and Vietnam is certainly closer.

More pics from the visit to Da Nang by three India warships led by commander Dinesh K.Tripathi

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## Viet

Tokyo, June 1. Event celebrating 45 years Vietnam/Japan diplomatic relationship. Top bad, Japan as a great nation is on the decline. With minus 400,000 a year (about the size of a city in Germany) the population of Japan shrinks at alarming rate.

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## Viet

the next guests to the South China sea: Russia

Destroyer Admiral Tributs, destroyer Admiral Vingradov and tanker Pechenga pay a port visit to the Cam Ranh bay.

















Not too far from the place where Russia oil company Rosnef starts drilling oil for Vietnam.

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## frequency

warzone said:


> So now you admit that human waves are PLA tactics ...LOL !!! Ok, now that PLA don't use anymore human waves attacks can you tell me what their military achievements since 1979...???? NADA...lol... !!! I know one big PLA military success since 1979, it's when the PLA massacre thousands of unarmed students in Tia Nan Men Square 1989....Now we know why every country is scare of the killer PLA when it make threats...LOL



Nobody on earth is scared of the Chinese. They are worms.

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## warzone

frequency said:


> Nobody on earth is scared of the Chinese. They are worms.


Don’t be so rude man, the PLA going to make threats to invade Canada as well…LOL !!! We can all see the might of victorious PLA against students in Tian Nan Men Square (which is a sad 29th birthday today), against Tibetans protesters in Tibet and against Uyghurs equipped with knifes in Xinjiang. PLA is at the best when other side is unarmed or armed with knifes...If other side is armed, the PLA will launch a treacherous surprise attack like Korea in 1950, Parachel in 1974, VN invasion in 1979, ...LOL



xiao qi said:


> Likely we will buy F16 from US in the next time



US will most likely supply military trainer aircrafts first (to make Vnese pilots comfortable with US technology) then hopefully the F16 and A10 Thunderbolt will come after.
*US mulls over handing military trainer aircraft to Vietnam* by VNEXPRESS




Not such a fantasy dream to have VN with US aircrafts afterall... Couple years ago, some PLA lovers was calling VNese people stupid and having wet dreams, who is laughing now?...LOL

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## Viet

Apropos Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudea invites Vietnam to the upcoming G7 summit in Charlevoix. Topic: how to protect our oceans for generations to come. Interesting topic. Vietnam government chief will have the chance to meet Donald Trump.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Apropos Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudea invites Vietnam to the upcoming G7 summit. Topic: how to protect our oceans for generations to come. Interesting topic. Vietnam government chief will have the chance to meet Donald Trump.
> 
> View attachment 478547



How much is French language known among the Vietnamese govt leaders would you say these days?

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## Viet

France and UK announce sending warships to the SC sea. Soon we will have more warships than sharks in the waters. 







https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806041065096082-france-britain-sending-ships-south-china-sea/

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## trishna_amṛta

Question : Does the wikipedia list of the active Vietnam Navy vessels and Air Force inventory accurate?


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> How much is French language known among the Vietnamese govt leaders would you say these days?


I don’t think anyone can speak French. Many Vietnamese members of the government today are educated in the West. Well some in Russia but no longer in China. For instance the current long served foreign minister Phạm Bình Minh. After graduation in Vietnam he went to United States for further education. He received the Master of Arts in Law and Diplomacy at Fletcher School.

He is said the most hated Vietnamese in China, because Minh is the one that pushes Vietnam opening to the West.

He is the architect of Vietnam foreign policy.

If one does not know: Vietnam is probably the first and only country in the world that has a foreign office, occupied with high educated ranks, only to think how to interact with China. That is history.

In fact, for hundreds if not thousands of years Vietnam foreign policy is very focused on China, nowadays the previous Middle Kingdom is seen as important as the kingdom of Netherlands. E.i. not much relevant.

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## xiao qi

trishna_amṛta said:


> Question : Does the wikipedia list of the active Vietnam Navy vessels and Air Force inventory accurate?


no, the Vietnamese army usually try to hide everything so you will not know exactly what they have in hand, that is tradition from war until now. even dont mention from unbelieveable suorce like wiki



Viet said:


> I don’t think anyone can speak French. Many Vietnamese members of the government today are educated in the West. Well some in Russia but no longer in China. For instance the current long served foreign minister Phạm Bình Minh. After graduation in Vietnam he went to United States for further education. He received the Master of Arts in Law and Diplomacy at Fletcher School.
> 
> He is said the most hated Vietnamese in China, because Minh is the one that pushes Vietnam opening to the West.
> 
> He is the architect of Vietnam foreign policy.
> 
> If one does not know: Vietnam is probably the first and only country in the world that has a foreign office, occupied with high educated ranks, only to think how to interact with China. That is history.
> 
> In fact, for hundreds if not thousands of years Vietnam foreign policy is very focused on China, nowadays the previous Middle Kingdom is seen as important as the kingdom of Netherlands. E.i. not much relevant.


people who can speak french in government are rare, english and russian is more popular than, I and this minister you mentioned have same province, actually from my house to his origin house is only about 30km. I do not know much about him so can not to comfirm for what you say but his father was likely known more than for this thing

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## Viet

South Korea military chief Song Young-moo stops by for a visit. Vietnam is the core country of South Korea’s “New Southern Policy”, hence gets the status on par with SK major countries as US, Japan, EU and China.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> I don’t think anyone can speak French. Many Vietnamese members of the government today are educated in the West. Well some in Russia but no longer in China. For instance the current long served foreign minister Phạm Bình Minh. After graduation in Vietnam he went to United States for further education. He received the Master of Arts in Law and Diplomacy at Fletcher School.
> 
> He is said the most hated Vietnamese in China, because Minh is the one that pushes Vietnam opening to the West.
> 
> He is the architect of Vietnam foreign policy.
> 
> If one does not know: Vietnam is probably the first and only country in the world that has a foreign office, occupied with high educated ranks, only to think how to interact with China. That is history.
> 
> In fact, for hundreds if not thousands of years Vietnam foreign policy is very focused on China, nowadays the previous Middle Kingdom is seen as important as the kingdom of Netherlands. E.i. not much relevant.



Yeah I was wondering, because then the Viet leader can speak to Trudeau in French rather than go through translator for Viet/English etc. hehe.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Yeah I was wondering, because then the Viet leader can speak to Trudeau in French rather than go through translator for Viet/English etc. hehe.


Some can but most not. Today French has not the role that used to play in the past. You may know it: French was official language in administration, replacing Chinese when the French finally conquered Vietnam in 19 century.

With the French rule coming to an end and Ho Chi Minh to power, Ho was keen to introduce Vietnamese as official language and scripts, preventing the return of Chinese. Ho was fluent in Mandarin.

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## frequency

Viet said:


> I don’t think anyone can speak French. Many Vietnamese members of the government today are educated in the West. Well some in Russia but no longer in China. For instance the current long served foreign minister Phạm Bình Minh. After graduation in Vietnam he went to United States for further education. He received the Master of Arts in Law and Diplomacy at Fletcher School.
> 
> He is said the most hated Vietnamese in China, because Minh is the one that pushes Vietnam opening to the West.
> 
> He is the architect of Vietnam foreign policy.
> 
> If one does not know: Vietnam is probably the first and only country in the world that has a foreign office, occupied with high educated ranks, only to think how to interact with China. That is history.
> 
> In fact, for hundreds if not thousands of years Vietnam foreign policy is very focused on China, nowadays the previous Middle Kingdom is seen as important as the kingdom of Netherlands. E.i. not much relevant.



Vietnam has been different compared to China for over 2 centuries. We are the first country to lead as a more multicultural nation in the world. Without the Vietnam war, Vietnam would be a quantum leap compare to China.



Nilgiri said:


> Yeah I was wondering, because then the Viet leader can speak to Trudeau in French rather than go through translator for Viet/English etc. hehe.



The cool part about Vietnamese language is that it is very similar to Latin language which make it easier for us to learn to speak French.

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## Nilgiri

frequency said:


> The cool part about Vietnamese language is that it is very similar to Latin language which make it easier for us to learn to speak French.



Yah you do have latin based script for Vietnamese as well.


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Yah you do have latin based script for Vietnamese as well.


Vietnamese usually can speak multiple languages without problems. Personally besides Vietnamese I speak German, English fluently. I can speak French and Spanish a bit. I once tried to speak Chinese to impress some but stopped because of Chinese idiots here and there. in Germany, a kid learns English very early - at Primary school. When they come to Highschool, a second foreign language is mandatory. Be French or Spanish. or both. So you can imagine how many languages a Viet kid in a foreign country has to master. Sometimes it is too much.

Ah I read the news, India warships were tailed by a Chinese vessel when leaving Vietnam. You should be bothered by such silly action but should increase the frequency of sending warships to the SC Sea.






https://swarajyamag.com/insta/china...ercise-with-vietnam-in-south-china-sea-report

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## Viet

Wonderful: a group of investors plans to create a giant artificial island off coast of Da Nang city. Size: 1,400ha. for a cost of $8 billion. I believe the size will exceed that of a certain country that created in recent years.

For a peaceful environment 






http://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/...ed-proposal-for--8-bln-project.html#ui=mobile

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## AViet

frequency said:


> Vietnam has been different compared to China for over 2 centuries. We are the first country to lead as a more multicultural nation in the world. Without the Vietnam war, Vietnam would be a quantum leap compare to China.
> 
> 
> 
> The cool part about Vietnamese language is that it is very similar to Latin language which make it easier for us to learn to speak French.



Vietnamese language use Latin script, but our language is a Mon Khmer one. You can say that Vietnamese language is similar to Khmer in basic words, to Chinese in 80% of vocabulary and even to Korean or Japanese through Chinese connection, but cannot say Vietnamese language is similar to Latin languages,


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Vietnamese language use Latin script, but our language is a Mon Khmer one. You can say that Vietnamese language is similar to Khmer in basic words, to Chinese in 80% of vocabulary and even to Korean or Japanese through Chinese connection, but cannot say Vietnamese language is similar to Latin languages,


Khmer and mon Khmer are two different shoes, have little to nothing in common.

Do you understand anything if listening to a Cambodia person?

In contrast, a person in Spain and a person in Italy can understand each other although they speak different languages.

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## AViet

Viet said:


> Khmer and mon Khmer are two different shoes, have little to nothing in common.
> 
> Do you understand anything if listening to a Cambodia person?
> 
> In contrast, a person in Spain and a person in Italy can understand each other although they speak different languages.



Nothing. This is a iinguistic issue, which I am not professional.

However, I know some basic Khmer words which are identical to Vietnamese:
numbers from 1 to 5 (for example: boyn = bốn; myot - một)
ka = cá

In addition, I doubt if a Spanish and an Italian can understand each other without studying. My Russian mate (20 years ago) said that Russian need to study around 6 months to understand other Slavic languages (similar to an adult Vietnamese learn spoken Chinese)

And I know for sure that Romanian and Italian cannot understand each other (both are Latin languages).

And Bengali (spoken in Bangladesh) and Norse (spoken in Norway) both belong to Indo-European language family (with many similar basic words, may be even more than the similarity between Vietnamese and Khmer) but I doubt a Bengali can understand a Norwegian.


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## Farhan Bohra

AViet said:


> Nothing. This is a iinguistic issue, which I am not professional.
> 
> However, I know some basic Khmer words which are identical to Vietnamese:
> numbers from 1 to 5 (for example: boyn = bốn; myot - một)
> ka = cá
> 
> In addition, I doubt if a Spanish and an Italian can understand each other without studying. My Russian mate (20 years ago) said that Russian need to study around 6 months to understand other Slavic languages (similar to an adult Vietnamese learn spoken Chinese)
> 
> And I know for sure that Romanian and Italian cannot understand each other (both are Latin languages).
> 
> And Bengali (spoken in Bangladesh) and Norse (spoken in Norway) both belong to Indo-European language family (with many similar basic words, may be even more than the similarity between Vietnamese and Khmer) but I doubt a Bengali can understand a Norwegian.


Bengali is also official language of state of West Bengal.


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## Viet

AViet said:


> Nothing. This is a iinguistic issue, which I am not professional.
> 
> However, I know some basic Khmer words which are identical to Vietnamese:
> numbers from 1 to 5 (for example: boyn = bốn; myot - một)
> ka = cá
> 
> In addition, I doubt if a Spanish and an Italian can understand each other without studying. My Russian mate (20 years ago) said that Russian need to study around 6 months to understand other Slavic languages (similar to an adult Vietnamese learn spoken Chinese)
> 
> And I know for sure that Romanian and Italian cannot understand each other (both are Latin languages).
> 
> And Bengali (spoken in Bangladesh) and Norse (spoken in Norway) both belong to Indo-European language family (with many similar basic words, may be even more than the similarity between Vietnamese and Khmer) but I doubt a Bengali can understand a Norwegian.


Italian and Spanish share overwhelming many similarities in words, in sounds, in gramma because both share the same root.


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## Farhan Bohra

Viet said:


> Italian and Spanish share overwhelming many similarities in words, in sounds, in gramma because both share the same root.


That is because Naples was protectorate of Spain.


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## Viet

Farhan Bohra said:


> That is because Naples was protectorate of Spain.


No. actually Italian and Spanish belong to the group of Roman language that has the root in vulgar Latin - the language that was spoken by soldiers of Roman Empire. The Rom army brought not only the language to Western Europe but civilization.

I believe we are off topic


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## 大汉奸柳传志

Viet said:


> He is said the most hated Vietnamese in China


we don't even know who that is...


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## Viet

Tribute to Anthony Bourdain, the man who makes Vietnam especially the country food popular to international audience. In over 206 episodes and two shows, no country has enraptured the brazen itinerant more so than Vietnam. 

"Vietnam. It grabs you and doesn’t let you go. Once you love it, you love it forever." - Anthony Bourdain

He committed suicide by hanging himselves in a hotel room in Paris.

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## Viet

Vietnam PM arrives the French speaking province of Quebec for G7 outreach summit. Previously during the visit of Canada defense minister to Vietnam, Canada offers training courses for Vietnamese Armed Forces. Not dog fighting aerial combat over Canada sky but nevertheless interesting.







Also interesting. Old to new. Mounting 100mm mortar and 12.7mm machine gun on mobile platform.

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## Aung Zaya

Today , Mytel Grand opening ceremony 
@Viet

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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> Today , Mytel Grand opening ceremony
> @Viet


Yes the day of the days. the result when two countries armies work together, bringing the most modern mobile networks to Myanmar, with 7,000x 4G base transceiver stations and 30,000 km of fibre-optic cables installed.

by the way, Vietnam prepares to install the first 5G in 1 or 2 years. Myanmar can have it if you want too.


























In just a year Mytel’s 4G base transceiver stations have cropped up all over Myanmar, even in rural, mountainous and remote areas. — VNS Photo

Read more at http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/44957...olden-pagoda-country.html#8WIMl7xEjzuPMThW.99

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## Viet

Vietnam expresses anger and protest when China sends bombers into South China sea in the weeks of May. “Vietnam demands that China stop these activities, cease militarization of the area, and strictly respect Vietnam’s sovereignty over the Hoang Sa islands,” foreign ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang (Hoang Sa =Paracels). Earlier this month, Vietnam also asked China to withdraw military equipment from the nearby Spratly Islands in the disputed waters, following media reports that China had installed missiles there.

What a surprise, the US sends B52 bombers as response into the region a week later in June, drawing China´s protest, but an apparent welcome by Vietnam. Qatar seeks NATO membership, maybe Vietnam can follow.

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## Viet

Russia Pacific flotilla comprising of 2 destroyers and 1 tanker stop at Cam Ranh bay. Nice: the flotilla commander Oleg Korolyov proposes Vietnam naval flotilla to pay a counter visit at the Pacific Fleet home base in Vladivostok.

man, the Navy needs destroyers and long range submarines.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1007873

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Qatar seeks NATO membership, maybe Vietnam can follow.



I think they will need to change the name at that point heh. Or create the new alliance treaties like before like SEATO etc.


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> I think they will need to change the name at that point heh. Or create the new alliance treaties like before like SEATO etc.


Something that can protect Vietnam. No SEATO neither other toothless, more joining the NATO should the tension become unmanageable.

Other countries spend sums on military as if WW III is around the corner.

Vietnam military

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## Viet

Vietnam on G7+ summit in Quebec (without US president Donald Trump. He departs early for Singapore)


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## Aqsuperman

A nice get-together

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## Carlosa

AViet said:


> In addition, *I doubt if a Spanish and an Italian can understand each other without studying*. My Russian mate (20 years ago) said that Russian need to study around 6 months to understand other Slavic languages (similar to an adult Vietnamese learn spoken Chinese).



So says someone that speaks neither Spanish or Italian. Spanish and Italians with no previous training of the other's language can understand about 25% of the other language, many similarities, same grammatical structure, can learn the other language quite well in just a few months. But hey, no worries about what I say, I'm a fake Spanish as you used to say.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> So says someone that speaks neither Spanish or Italian. Spanish and Italians with no previous training of the other's language can understand about 25% of the other language, many similarities, same grammatical structure, can learn the other language quite well in just a few months. But hey, no worries about what I say, I'm a fake Spanish as you used to say.



My mother knows 7 languages and I know 5 languages, of which two can be used fluently. In addition, I studied Chinese, Japanese, French. I can read French newspapers with ease, and when I was in Italy, I found that I could read and understand around 30% of Italian magazines (not newspaper). I just guess similarities between Spanish and Italian.

And nothing proves that you know Spanish/Italian more than me.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> So says someone that speaks neither Spanish or Italian. Spanish and Italians with no previous training of the other's language can understand about 25% of the other language, many similarities, same grammatical structure, can learn the other language quite well in just a few months. But hey, no worries about what I say, I'm a fake Spanish as you used to say.


Hey bro welcome back, or at least one post a while, I follow your page from time to time. Keep up!

I once experienced the similarities between Spanish and Italian first hand when hearing a conservation between an Italian and a group of Cubans that speak Spanish.

Don’t bother too much about the guy. For him, only Chinese is true Chinese, the rest is faked. I learned to move on.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> Hey bro welcome back, or at least one post a while, I follow your page from time to time. Keep up!
> 
> I once experienced the similarities between Spanish and Italian first hand when hearing a conservation between an Italian and a group of Cubans that speak Spanish.
> 
> Don’t bother too much about the guy. For him, only Chinese is true Chinese, the rest is faked. I learned to move on.



Thanks bro, try to contact me in Twitter, I don't know your account there, some of the juicy information there gets shared in private messages.



AViet said:


> My mother knows 7 languages and I know 5 languages, of which two can be used fluently. In addition, I studied Chinese, Japanese, French. I can read French newspapers with ease, and when I was in Italy, I found that I could read and understand around 30% of Italian magazines (not newspaper). I just guess similarities between Spanish and Italian.
> 
> And nothing proves that you know Spanish/Italian more than me.



Eres un tio pendejo, jodido y mal parido, hablas mucho pero no sabes un coño.

That's some Spanish for you, enjoy the translation.

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## Nike

Carlosa said:


> Thanks bro, try to contact me in Twitter, I don't know your account there, some of the juicy information there gets shared in private messages.
> 
> 
> 
> Eres un tio pendejo, jodido y mal parido, hablas mucho pero no sabes un coño.
> 
> That's some Spanish for you, enjoy the translation.



You made my day with your cussing LoL.


----------



## frequency

AViet said:


> Vietnamese language use Latin script, but our language is a Mon Khmer one. You can say that Vietnamese language is similar to Khmer in basic words, to Chinese in 80% of vocabulary and even to Korean or Japanese through Chinese connection, but cannot say Vietnamese language is similar to Latin languages,



It is Latin. Do you see we write in character or alphabet? Man, what's wrong with you. Do you me a big favour, stop TALKING to me! F!!! What an incompetent person! Bye!



Carlosa said:


> So says someone that speaks neither Spanish or Italian. Spanish and Italians with no previous training of the other's language can understand about 25% of the other language, many similarities, same grammatical structure, can learn the other language quite well in just a few months. But hey, no worries about what I say, I'm a fake Spanish as you used to say.



That guy AVIET is a weird dude. Zero intelligence. He thinks Vietnamese language is Chinese. He's just another "flat earth" believer. You know what I mean.



Carlosa said:


> Thanks bro, try to contact me in Twitter, I don't know your account there, some of the juicy information there gets shared in private messages.
> 
> 
> 
> Eres un tio pendejo, jodido y mal parido, hablas mucho pero no sabes un coño.
> 
> That's some Spanish for you, enjoy the translation.




Ojalá pudiera matar a Hinm en la vida real.

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## Carlosa

frequency said:


> That guy AVIET is a weird dude. Zero intelligence. He thinks Vietnamese language is Chinese. He's just another "flat earth" believer. You know what I mean.
> .



Totally agree with you man. He is also a time waster.



frequency said:


> Ojalá pudiera matar a Hinm en la vida real.



Ha ha, right. This is the correct Spanish: Ojalá pudiera matarlo en la vida real.

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## AViet

Carlosa said:


> Thanks bro, try to contact me in Twitter, I don't know your account there, some of the juicy information there gets shared in private messages.
> 
> 
> 
> Eres un tio pendejo, jodido y mal parido, hablas mucho pero no sabes un coño.
> 
> That's some Spanish for you, enjoy the translation.





frequency said:


> It is Latin. Do you see we write in character or alphabet? Man, what's wrong with you. Do you me a big favour, stop TALKING to me! F!!! What an incompetent person! Bye!
> 
> 
> 
> That guy AVIET is a weird dude. Zero intelligence. He thinks Vietnamese language is Chinese. He's just another "flat earth" believer. You know what I mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ojalá pudiera matar a Hinm en la vida real.




I do not know you and do not care about your ignorance. You can keep it. I just want to explain to others that not all Vietnamese are so poorly educated that cannot differentiate between the script used for writing and language.

This forum is open to anyone to share his idea. You cannot forbid anyone to respond when you keep spreading false propaganda, fake news or poor knowledge like this.


----------



## Viet

*Nirmala Sitharaman inaugurates Bharat Electronics’ representative office in Vietnam*
Setting up of Bharat Electronics Ltd’s representative office in Hanoi is part of efforts to boost India-Vietnam ties

Last Published: Wed, Jun 13 2018. 10 13 PM IST
Elizabeth Roche





Defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the Presidential Palace, in Hanoi on Wednesday. Photo: PTI


*New Delhi:* In a significant move to boost India-Vietnam ties, union defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman inaugurated the first representative office of the state-owned defence equipment manufacturer Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) in Hanoi.

Sitharaman handed over the symbolic key of BEL’s representative office in Vietnam (VIRO) to Gowtama M.V., chairman and managing director, BEL, on Wednesday.

Hanoi was hosting the Vietnam-India Defence Industry Business Meeting at Hotel Melia. P. Harish, Indian ambassador to Vietnam, Ajay Kumar, secretary, defence production, and other senior officials of the Indian and Vietnam defence forces were present at the event.


VIRO is located near the Indian Embassy in the Vietnam capital. BEL is a defence electronics company, that has been playing a key role in manufacturing of defence armaments, including air defence and surveillance radars, missiles, cockpit and flight control systems for India’s indigenous light combat aircraft.

In recent years, it has been “fast expanding its global presence, and putting its best foot forward to give a thrust to exports worldwide, especially in South-East Asia, including the Republic of the Union of Myanmar, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and the Philippines,” a BEL statement said.

“Spotting a niche market in Vietnam, BEL has now set up its first representative office in Vietnam to address export business opportunities and to provide unstinted product support and services to users in the region,” the statement said.

“The representative office will aim to promote BEL’s exports in areas such as weapons systems, radar systems, naval systems, military communication systems, electronic warfare systems, combat management systems and coastal surveillance systems,” it added.

In recent years, India has been strengthening its political, economic and strategic ties with Southeast Asian countries, signing defence cooperation pacts with Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia. This comes against the backdrop of an aggressively rising China. Since 2014, India has refashioned its “look East” policy to “Act East” policy.

India and Vietnam have been in talks for the sale of Brahmos cruise missiles, jointly produced by Russia and India, to Hanoi.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> *Nirmala Sitharaman inaugurates Bharat Electronics’ representative office in Vietnam*
> Setting up of Bharat Electronics Ltd’s representative office in Hanoi is part of efforts to boost India-Vietnam ties
> 
> Last Published: Wed, Jun 13 2018. 10 13 PM IST
> Elizabeth Roche
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman with Vietnamese President Tran Dai Quang at the Presidential Palace, in Hanoi on Wednesday. Photo: PTI
> 
> 
> *New Delhi:* In a significant move to boost India-Vietnam ties, union defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman inaugurated the first representative office of the state-owned defence equipment manufacturer Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) in Hanoi.
> 
> Sitharaman handed over the symbolic key of BEL’s representative office in Vietnam (VIRO) to Gowtama M.V., chairman and managing director, BEL, on Wednesday.
> 
> Hanoi was hosting the Vietnam-India Defence Industry Business Meeting at Hotel Melia. P. Harish, Indian ambassador to Vietnam, Ajay Kumar, secretary, defence production, and other senior officials of the Indian and Vietnam defence forces were present at the event.
> 
> 
> VIRO is located near the Indian Embassy in the Vietnam capital. BEL is a defence electronics company, that has been playing a key role in manufacturing of defence armaments, including air defence and surveillance radars, missiles, cockpit and flight control systems for India’s indigenous light combat aircraft.
> 
> In recent years, it has been “fast expanding its global presence, and putting its best foot forward to give a thrust to exports worldwide, especially in South-East Asia, including the Republic of the Union of Myanmar, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and the Philippines,” a BEL statement said.
> 
> “Spotting a niche market in Vietnam, BEL has now set up its first representative office in Vietnam to address export business opportunities and to provide unstinted product support and services to users in the region,” the statement said.
> 
> “The representative office will aim to promote BEL’s exports in areas such as weapons systems, radar systems, naval systems, military communication systems, electronic warfare systems, combat management systems and coastal surveillance systems,” it added.
> 
> In recent years, India has been strengthening its political, economic and strategic ties with Southeast Asian countries, signing defence cooperation pacts with Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia. This comes against the backdrop of an aggressively rising China. Since 2014, India has refashioned its “look East” policy to “Act East” policy.
> 
> India and Vietnam have been in talks for the sale of Brahmos cruise missiles, jointly produced by Russia and India, to Hanoi.
> 
> View attachment 480242
> 
> View attachment 480241
> 
> 
> View attachment 480248
> View attachment 480250


Nice, India-sub Mekong-TPP co operation will become too strong and too big to any threat

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## Viet

The French















The troop


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## frequency

Viet said:


> The French
> 
> View attachment 480330
> View attachment 480329
> View attachment 480331
> View attachment 480332
> 
> 
> The troop
> 
> View attachment 480333
> View attachment 480334
> View attachment 480335
> View attachment 480336



Defeated the mongol, defeated the French, defeated the Japanese, defeated the American, defeated the Chinese, and will continue to defeat the Chinese!

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## Viva_Viet

frequency said:


> Defeated the mongol, defeated the French, defeated the Japanese, defeated the American, defeated the Chinese, and will continue to defeat the Chinese!


It will be a nightmare for any invaders when India decide to setup a big arm factory in VN and willing to share good tech.

time for India-VN to re-take weapon market. Russia should join soon before too late due to her high price while same quality wt India-Vn weapons


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## Viet

The Israeli

Yuval Miodovsky, a member of Israeli Armed Forces teaches “Krav“ - a Israeli karate variant for close contact.


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## Aqsuperman

T-90 and MSTA? Seem to be a wonderful combination. Wish VPA would set up several divisions worth of them.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> T-90 and MSTA? Seem to be a wonderful combination. Wish VPA would set up several divisions worth of them.


Looks very odd. The army needs more money.


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## Viet

On patrol A speedboat and A Su30 jet













India wants to increase weapon exports by setting up armament plants and representative office of PSU Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) in Vietnam.


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## Viet

Vietnam´s new strategy in the South China sea

https://international.thenewslens.com/article/97948











Vietnam continues modest expansions to its outposts in the Spratly Islands, most recently on Ladd Reef. Satellite imagery from March and June shows that Hanoi has dredged a new channel, which did not exist in older photos, and is expanding one of its two facilities (the other is a small lighthouse to the west) at the feature.

An image from March 18 reveals a channel recently dredged through the southern edge of the reef, with a barge and two large (roughly 160-foot) vessels just north of the mouth of this new entrance into the lagoon. At least 21 smaller ships, all of which appear to be Vietnamese fishing boats, are present inside the lagoon.

A closer look at the barge shows two pieces of construction equipment, likely backhoes or grab dredgers, loading sediment into a waiting vessel after having scooped it off the seabed. This method of dredging is typical of the work Vietnam has undertaken at several of its other occupied features. The Philippines has also started similar work at its facility on Thitu Island. By contrast, China has usually employed suction cutter dredgers in the South China Sea, which can move sediment much more quickly, but at a staggering environmental cost.

The March image also shows that some of that dredged sediment appears to have been deposited next to Vietnam’s small outpost at the northern end of Ladd Reef.

A more recent image taken on June 3 reveals that Vietnam is expanding the northern outpost, building on sediment from the dredged channel. The barge is tied up alongside the construction site, two large ships are visible at the northern end of the channel, and nearly 80 smaller ships both inside and outside the lagoon. Most, if not all, of these seem to be Vietnamese fishing boats.

The new construction involves the installation of a hexagonal platform about 100 feet across. At least one piece of construction equipment, likely a backhoe, is operating on the recently deposited sediment next to this platform. The new structure appears to be identical to expansions built onto four of Vietnam’s other pillbox-like facilities in the Spratlys, at Collins, Lansdowne, Tennent, and Discovery Great Reefs in recent years. Like those expansions, the new building at Ladd will presumably be connected to the existing outpost by a footbridge.

With the new construction at Ladd Reef, Vietnam has made modest upgrades to 21 of its 49 outposts in the Spratlys in recent years. The decision to expand its footprint at Ladd Reef, including with a new channel to facilitate resupply and allow larger vessels to shelter in the lagoon, is of particular interest given recent events.

The construction work at Ladd Reef also highlights an important new aspect of Vietnam’s military doctrine in the South China Sea: the use of fishers as a militia force.

Ladd Reef is the westernmost of the occupied rocks and reefs in the Spratlys. To the southwest lie several undersea banks that China claims as part of the island group despite their being entirely submerged, along with Vietnamese oil and gas blocks that have been the focus of several high-profile spats between Beijing and Hanoi over the last year. Vietnam, the United States, and most of the international community consider that area to be a piece of the continental shelf belonging to Hanoi, but China claims ill-defined “historic rights” to it as part of its “nine-dash line” claim to most of the South China Sea.

Vietnam built a series of small platforms, called “economic, scientific, and technological services stations,” on the underwater banks in the area in the 1980s and 1990s. Despite recent upgrades, those facilities are extremely vulnerable and were reportedly threatened by Beijing as part of its campaign to force Hanoi to abandon oil and gas work in Block 136 last year. This offers one likely motive for Hanoi’s decision to bolster its footprint at nearby Ladd Reef, which could prove valuable as a staging ground for vessels patrolling the outposts and resources to the southeast.






The construction work at Ladd Reef also highlights an important new aspect of Vietnam’s military doctrine in the South China Sea: the use of fishers as a militia force. China employs a maritime militia consisting of fishers from its coastal provinces to bolster its presence and support operations in contested waters without provoking a military response from others.

Vietnam learned the difficulty of confronting such a militia firsthand during the 2014 standoff over China’s deployment of an oil rig in disputed waters, when Chinese fishing vessels were called upon to protect the rig’s operations. In response, Vietnam has recruited its own fishers to serve in a similar capacity, though to-date they have been less active than their Chinese counterparts. In this case, the large number of fishing vessels present at Ladd Reef throughout the construction process suggest they might be offering protection and support in an official militia capacity.

TNL Editor: David Green

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## Viet

Construction starts for India funded Information Technology Institute at Vietnam army university in Nha Trang.







The Lady - India defense minister - to a visit of Cam Ranh bay, the home base of Vietnam submarine fleet

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Construction starts for India funded Information Technology Institute at Vietnam army university in Nha Trang.
> 
> View attachment 480957
> 
> 
> 
> The Lady - India defense minister - to a visit of Cam Ranh bay, the home base of Vietnam submarine fleet
> 
> View attachment 480958
> View attachment 480959


India must stand firm. US is destroying CN wt her sanction now and when CN collapse, both VN-India could be the next US's targets


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## Mohrenn

Viva_Viet said:


> India must stand firm. US is destroying CN wt her sanction now and when CN collapse, both VN-India could be the next US's targets



Don't worry too much about China


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## Viva_Viet

Mohrenn said:


> Don't worry too much about China


WHy should we worry, bro ??


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## Viet

New weapons in sight?





Made in VN rifles STL-A1 M203





M18

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## Viet

*Facebook removes Paracel, Spratly Islands from Chinas map at Vietnams request*
By *Viet Tuan* 
July 2, 2018 | 11:17 pm GMT+7 Vietnam Express

_A map used for Facebook advertising previously showed the islands, which are under Vietnams sovereignty, as part of China._

Social networking giant Facebook has complied with a request by the Vietnamese government regarding a wrongful depiction of its sovereignty.

As of Monday afternoon, a map used for Facebooks advertising tool was found to have completely removed Paracel (Hoang Sa) and Spratly (Truong Sa) Islands in the South China Sea, which Vietnam calls the East Sea.

Previously, the map wrongfully depicted the islands, which are under Vietnams sovereignty, as part of China.

The adjustment was made after Vietnamese information authorities on Sunday issued a request for Facebook to take immediate actions to correct the maps misinformation regarding the islands sovereignty.

Vietnams Authority of Broadcasting and Electronic Information under the Ministry of Information and Communications has confirmed that Facebook had complied with its request in a timely manner.

However Doan Cong Huynh, head of the ministrys Department of Foreign Information Services, said that Facebook would still need to issue an official apology and a statement regarding the correction so that China would not be able to use the incorrect map to back its claim over the islands.

The maps wrongful depiction of Paracel and Sprarly Islands as part of China has reportedly outraged many people in Vietnam, where Facebook is the most popular network with more than 58 million active accounts.

Vietnam has consistently affirmed that it has full legal basis and historical evidence to assert its sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly Islands.

China seized the Paracel Islands from South Vietnam by force in 1974, and has been illegally occupying a number of reefs in the Spratly Islands since 1988.

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## Viet

Fresh graduates from Air Defence Academy in Russia


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## Viet

*Pompeo to visit Vietnam*





Hanoi, July 5 (IANS) US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will visit Vietnam on July 8-9, it was announced here on Thursday.


This will be Pompeo’s first trip to Vietnam after taking office as Secretary of State, said Ngo Toan Thang, vice spokesperson of the Vietnamese Foreign Affairs Ministry.

Pompeo’s visit is expected to help strengthen the strategic partnership in various spheres like politics, diplomacy, economy, trade, national defence and overcoming consequences of the war, Thang was quoted as saying by Xinhua news agency.


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## Viet

Still running: US M48 tanks







New camo






Meeting with Japan military chief Onodera Itsunori. Vietnam urges Japan to do more in assisting Vietnam military buildup.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Still running: US M48 tanks
> 
> 
> View attachment 484702
> 
> 
> New camo
> 
> View attachment 484706
> 
> 
> Meeting with Japan military chief Onodera Itsunori. Vietnam urges Japan to do more in assisting Vietnam military buildup.
> 
> View attachment 484707


Yeah. JP must send more warship to protect her sea route in SCS(east VN sea).

And dont forget to apollogy for bad things in WW2 to VNese


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## Viet

Ground based anti aircraft missiles


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## Aqsuperman

Some samples of "unique" Western weapons in Vietnam People Army... Well, only a couple of crates

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Some samples of "unique" Western weapons in Vietnam People Army... Well, only a couple of crates


Looks futuristic but too bulky not handy for the infantry.


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## Viet

*US, Vietnam to Cooperate on Freedom of Navigation in Disputed South China Sea*
July 09, 2018 3:53 PM Nike Ching






_U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, right, meets with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc at the International Convention Center in Hanoi, Vietnam, July 9, 2018._


The U.S. top diplomat reaffirmed America's commitment to a "free and open Indo-Pacific" region during his first trip to Vietnam, saying Washington and Hanoi will work together to uphold freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea.

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo concluded his first trip to Vietnam as the top U.S. diplomat on Monday.

“The United States is dedicated to an Indo-Pacific region with strong, independent nations who respect each other’s sovereignty, uphold the rule of law, and advance responsible commerce,“ said Pompeo at a business community reception in Hanoi.

https://www.voanews.com/amp/4475002.html


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## Viet

X52 maintenance and repair facility is said being able to handle the Kilo submarines.


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## Aqsuperman

Good bye old classic ZU-23-2 23mm cannon, hello advance RSW stations


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## Viet

Military Capabilities
*Vietnam upgrades navy MRO capabilities*
*Jon Grevatt, Bangkok* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly 
12 July 2018






Vietnam has invested in developing its X52 Shipyard, which is providing maintenance support for the country’s Kilo-class submarines. 


Source: Government Inspectorate of Vietnam

Vietnam’s state-run media has published details of the work the country’s Ministry of National Defence (MND) is doing to modernise the country’s naval maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) capabilities.

Reports on 9 July said that the MND had invested in the past two years in developing the so-called X52 Shipyard, which is owned by the Vietnam People’s Navy (VPN) and is located in Cam Ranh Bay in the south central coast province of Khanh Hoa.

Upgrading of the facilities has been undertaken primarily to support the VPN’s six Project 636 ‘Kilo’-class diesel-electric attack submarines, which were procured from Russia in 2009. The last of two of these submarines were commissioned in March 2017.

Reports said that investments in the X52 Shipyard, which was inaugurated in 2012, had enabled the facility to repair and upgrade about 20 navy ships in 2017 in addition to its initial work in supporting the Kilo-class submarines. Capability development has also been secured through efforts to send engineers for training overseas, most notably to Russia.

Reports added that the MND aims to continue investing in the facility with the intention to enable it to carry out full MRO services for the Kilo-class submarines by 2019.

*Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options at　**ih*


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## Viet

Congrats to Viet X. Luong. He is promoted from Brig. General to Major Gereral, the highest ranking an immigrant from Vietnam ever receives in the US army, becoming the right hand of Lt. General Michael A. Bills, the commanding General of the 8th US Army in RoK. Should North Korea launch sudden attack on RoK, the 8th US army will bear the brunt of major assault as she protects Soul from the flank.

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## Viet

US soldiers have military gears Vietnamese army only dreams of.

@jhungary


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## frequency

Viet said:


> US soldiers have military gears Vietnamese army only dreams of.
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> View attachment 486296
> View attachment 486297



Yes, but to be honest, all those weight you carry is a burden. I'd prefer something super light yet very effective in combat. Mobility is critical in a battlefield.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> US soldiers have military gears Vietnamese army only dreams of.
> 
> @jhungary
> 
> View attachment 486296
> View attachment 486297



That's strange, as that is exactly what I said when I was in the Army and sent to Iraq in 2003.

Back then it was a different time, I went to war with no more than $9,000 worth of gear, compare to $25,000 of soldier from today.

I went to war with
-K Pot ($100)
-AN/PVS-14 ($2100)
-M4RIS ($2000)
-Interceptor Body Armor with 2 SAPI insert ($900)
-M9 sidearm ($450)
-Map ($10)
-UCP Uniform ($80)
-T-Shirt ($20)
-DuPoint combat boots ($100)
-Safety Glass ($50)

Back then it was a bare M4RIS which mean I get a Carry Handle instead of a ACOG, and then you have boots that worn out every 3 months in Desert Heat, MOPP Suit that is the wrong color, IBA cover that is the wrong color. We look like this






While today, ACOG (worth $1300) is a TO&E individual equipment, you also get a better M4A1, and better protected Army Combat Helmet and Improved/Modular Body Armor with give you 2 side insert as well as the front and back, also with individual GPS and ICOM, and which is something I can only dream of when I was over there in 2003. With improved boots, AN/PVS-18 and improved Wind Goggle. You no longer need to wipe sand out of your face.

Today's soldier looks like this

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## jhungary

frequency said:


> Yes, but to be honest, all those weight you carry is a burden. I'd prefer something super light yet very effective in combat. Mobility is critical in a battlefield.



Not all of the modern equipment is a weight add on, some are made to minimize weight by going multipurpose, some equipment is made of lighter material.

For example, how much different in weight to add a ACOG on a M4 in place of the metal carry handle? The difference may be 200 or 300 grams but you get a assisted aiming equipment rather than a bore sight. The same goes with lighter but more durable footwear to lighter weight modular body armour.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> That's strange, as that is exactly what I said when I was in the Army and sent to Iraq in 2003.
> 
> Back then it was a different time, I went to war with no more than $9,000 worth of gear, compare to $25,000 of soldier from today.
> 
> I went to war with
> -K Pot ($100)
> -AN/PVS-14 ($2100)
> -M4RIS ($2000)
> -Interceptor Body Armor with 2 SAPI insert ($900)
> -M9 sidearm ($450)
> -Map ($10)
> -UCP Uniform ($80)
> -T-Shirt ($20)
> -DuPoint combat boots ($100)
> -Safety Glass ($50)
> 
> Back then it was a bare M4RIS which mean I get a Carry Handle instead of a ACOG, and then you have boots that worn out every 3 months in Desert Heat, MOPP Suit that is the wrong color, IBA cover that is the wrong color. We look like this
> 
> View attachment 486520
> 
> 
> While today, ACOG (worth $1300) is a TO&E individual equipment, you also get a better M4A1, and better protected Army Combat Helmet and Improved/Modular Body Armor with give you 2 side insert as well as the front and back, also with individual GPS and ICOM, and which is something I can only dream of when I was over there in 2003. With improved boots, AN/PVS-18 and improved Wind Goggle. You no longer need to wipe sand out of your face.
> 
> Today's soldier looks like this
> 
> View attachment 486522


Just curious, how much you can earn in the army? And how much your wife gets if you fall on a battlefield?


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Just curious, how much you can earn in the army? And how much your wife gets if you fall on a battlefield?



lol, I don't know how much other people earn, I earn around $5000 a month before benefit and combat pays. All in you are talking about 7000 to 8000 a months.

How much my mum get (I wasn't married back then) if I go down in battle depends on several factors, she get a one off 50,000 payment + backpay + bonus from the Army, and depending on eligibility, you will also have an insurance policy between 50000 to 400000 you can get, and you can only claim only if you serve in a warzone for 120 days.

Actually, I wasn't too sure how much for the one off payment, 50,000 IIRC, but I maybe wrong, was told once about 15 years ago and I haven't died once, so I can't tell you how much it was exactly.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> lol, I don't know how much other people earn, I earn around $5000 a month before benefit and combat pays. All in you are talking about 7000 to 8000 a months.
> 
> How much my mum get (I wasn't married back then) if I go down in battle depends on several factors, she get a one off 50,000 payment + backpay + bonus from the Army, and depending on eligibility, you will also have an insurance policy between 50000 to 400000 you can get, and you can only claim only if you serve in a warzone for 120 days.
> 
> Actually, I wasn't too sure how much for the one off payment, 50,000 IIRC, but I maybe wrong, was told once about 15 years ago and I haven't died once, so I can't tell you how much it was exactly.


That means the US army pays good especially for the high ranks e.i. captain or general, and considering one receives free food and bed. The death payout is not much but Ok.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> That means the US army pays good especially for the high ranks e.i. captain or general, and considering one receives free food and bed. The death payout is not much but Ok.



Actually, no, it is widely known the US military underpay their rank, $7000 may seems a lot to you, but it is not even at scale to the same job in commercial sector, and if I were to work in commercial sector, I can earn about twice as much.

For example, my second tour in Afghanistan as a Captain I earn about $8000 a months with Combat Pay (because I don't go out as much as when I was a 1LT) but if I were to work with PMC for the same job (Intelligence Specialist) I would earn about $300,000 a year, which is about $22,000 a month.

The death payout is again depending on what kind of Policy you had, and you can get a private Policy that pays more on top of the death benefit you will get. In some case, it goes up to 1 millions and more , for example, The death of Pat Tillman (A NFL footballer who died in Afghanistan) result in a rumoured payout of 10 millions as per his own and his club Insurance Policy.

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Actually, no, it is widely known the US military underpay their rank, $7000 may seems a lot to you, but it is not even at scale to the same job in commercial sector, and if I were to work in commercial sector, I can earn about twice as much.
> 
> For example, my second tour in Afghanistan as a Captain I earn about $8000 a months with Combat Pay (because I don't go out as much as when I was a 1LT) but if I were to work with PMC for the same job (Intelligence Specialist) I would earn about $300,000 a year, which is about $22,000 a month.
> 
> The death payout is again depending on what kind of Policy you had, and you can get a private Policy that pays more on top of the death benefit you will get. In some case, it goes up to 1 millions and more , for example, The death of Pat Tillman (A NFL footballer who died in Afghanistan) result in a rumoured payout of 10 millions as per his own and his club Insurance Policy.


ok the army can never pay as much as you get in a private enterprise. I mean you defend your country. I also meant what payout one gets if a soldier falls in a battle. Private death contract is private. I can sign a private contract with 1 million USD too, but why should my wife get rich when I go down?


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## Viet

Rumor says Vietnam´s Marine Corps will receive T90 tanks next year. Russia can´t produce the tanks as fast as it should. Ok an imminent China invasion isn´t on the horizon yet.






Song Thu shipyard said it would build two modern DN-4000 multi-patrol boats for the Coast Guard. Specs: length 122.9m; width 16m; speed of 23.2 knots. good stuff, hope the ships can be produced quickly. the coast guard urgently needs more large boats.










Also, Sông Thu shipyard starts producing 4 x tug boats STU 1606 class for the Coast Guard.


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## Viet

A new construction at Vietnam controlled Ladd Reef that involves the installation of a hexagonal platform about 100 feet across can be seen on the pictures. For helicopters probably.

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## Viet

*Stronger than Steel*

The US company Kraig Biocraft opens the Prodigy Textiles facility in Quang Nam province. One step closer to mass production of genetically spidersilk. The material made of silk is super light, can withstand high kinetic impact and ballistic blast, ideally for soldiers’ protective vests. In fact the company has contract developing vests for the US army.

https://www.kraiglabs.com/kraig-bio...extiles-co-ltd-facility-in-quang-nam-vietnam/

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## Aqsuperman

Look like after winning the World Cups, French Airforce will hold a tour through Southeast Asia using the prize money lol. The force inclused Rafale fighter and a couple of transports.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> ok the army can never pay as much as you get in a private enterprise. I mean you defend your country. I also meant what payout one gets if a soldier falls in a battle. Private death contract is private. I can sign a private contract with 1 million USD too, but why should my wife get rich when I go down?



Your wife is gonna get rich regardless, do you think she care whether you are alive or dead when she start buying designer handbag or shoes or anything?

Well, defending one country is a duty, in this case, duty + benefit, I was not a patriotic guy before I join, and I am not a patriotic guy after I left, many people don't know this is just a job, at least for me.

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## trishna_amṛta

Aqsuperman said:


> French Airforce will hold a tour through Southeast Asia using the prize money lol. The force inclused Rafale fighter and a couple of transports.



They are making *sales / promotional visit*. The promotional most likely for the A-400 instead for the Rafale though. 
The only countries in that list that are currently viable enough for the sale of Rafale are UAE and Indonesia. Indonesia is currently has tender for 48 multirole fighter, although Viper block 70 is the likely winner there is always chance the political wind might change in favour for Rafale (albeit unlikely). Other countries in that list are either currently bankrupt (Malaysia), doesn't have enough money (Philippine), already order F-35 (Singapore), incompatible datalink (Vietnam), or already operate Rafale (India)

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam contigent in Russia Tank Biathlon

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## Aqsuperman

"Time to make some noises, comrades"

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## Viet

A crash of a Su22 fighter jet in NorthVietnam killed two pilots onboard. I believe the Su22 in service are getting old and dangerous. The US Congress proposes Vietnam to be included in the list of three countries that will be exempted from US sanction if they buy Russians weaponry. Caatsa. Hurrying up the process of acquiring new fighters, new weapon systems from Russia once the exception becomes law should be considered. In long run, only building up a domestic military complex is the only thing that avoids us running into trouble. Just my personal opinion.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/w...uring-of-russian-weapons-reports-2762701.html


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## warzone

Aqsuperman said:


> "Time to make some noises, comrades"


It one of the most unfair war games. Russian know perfectly the equipments, terrain and weather, Chinese bring their own Type-96B tanks and have plenty of time to train in a copy of the war game field back at home , and the others countries already operated the T-72 for decades... In the meantime, Vietnamese crews had just a few days to practice with the T-72... Thank God it just a game to make Russia and China look good on the top ranking.

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## TaiShang

Viet said:


> A crash of a Su22 fighter jet in NorthVietnam killed two pilots onboard. I believe the Su22 in service are getting old and dangerous. The US Congress proposes Vietnam to be included in the list of three countries that will be exempted from US sanction if they buy Russians weaponry. Caatsa. Hurrying up the process of acquiring new fighters, new weapon systems from Russia once the exception becomes law should be considered. In long run, only building up a domestic military complex is the only thing that avoids us running into trouble. Just my personal opinion.



I think real Vietnamese never fully trust the US people. This is how a US people feels he has been treated in Vietnam.

I guess Vietnam cannot demonize the US enough after what was gone through.






@Stranagor

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## Viet

TaiShang said:


> I think real Vietnamese never fully trust the US people. This is how a US people feels he has been treated in Vietnam.
> 
> I guess Vietnam cannot demonize the US enough after what was gone through.
> 
> View attachment 490216
> 
> 
> @Stranagor


Please stop. We all know Chinese agenda: waiting for the moment to attack. Your rants against America and the West are just fake.

Of course we can’t rely solely on America or any other country but on the firepower of our army.

Test firing of a modernized T55 tank.
The army needs between 1,000 and 2,000 tanks.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Foreign Ministry mum on US arms deal*
By Khanh Lynh 

August 2, 2018 | 10:16 pm GMT+7




Last March, U.S. aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson arrived in Da Nang on a historic visit to Vietnam. Photo by Nguyen Dong.

Spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang merely said at a regular press conference that she would pass on questions about the deal to relevant authorities.

She said Vietnam's defense policy is to protect the country's peace, independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and to contribute to peace and stability in the region and the world.

"[Vietnam's] defense cooperation with other countries are to implement this policy," the spokesperson said.

A U.S.-based newspaper on Thursday quoted an unnamed official from the U.S. State Department as saying that Vietnam has signed contracts to buy U.S. military equipment worth $94.7 million.

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## AViet

Viet said:


> Please stop. We all know Chinese agenda: waiting for the moment to attack. Your rants against America and the West are just fake.
> 
> Of course *we can’t rely solely on America* or any other country but on the firepower of our army.
> 
> Test firing of a modernized T55 tank.
> The army needs between 1,000 and 2,000 tanks.
> 
> View attachment 490272



Viet, who are you to say "we"? Your forefathers fought for the US, received salary paid by the US to kill Vietnamese people. Our forefathers fought for the freedom and independence of Vietnam and made the foundation for a relatively prosperous Vietnam of today. Without the sacrifices of our forefathers, just look at "democratic" Philippines or India for the future of the puppet "Republic of Vietnam".

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## Viet

AViet said:


> Viet, who are you to say "we"? Your forefathers fought for the US, received salary paid by the US to kill Vietnamese people. Our forefathers fought for the freedom and independence of Vietnam and made the foundation for a relatively prosperous Vietnam of today. Without the sacrifices of our forefathers, just look at "democratic" Philippines or India for the future of the puppet "Republic of Vietnam".


I don’t know what you are talking about. My family originally comes from Hanoi.

VN unity was won by contributions from all the people from north to central to south. So prosperity. From inland and overseas Vietnamese.

You defend the Chinese at every occasion but they can improve the relationship to Vietnam immediately if offering a non aggression pact. That will cost them nothing. There is a reason why the Chinese don’t do it.

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## Viet

As I predicted, Vietnam will find another potent partner with military might to explore oil and gas in the South China Sea: Japan. Let’s see how Xi Jinping will react. If he will threaten Japan with war.


https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/vietnam-finds-new-partners-for-s-china-sea-drilling
*Vietnam Finds New Partners for S. China Sea Drilling*





Repsol's lease blocks, canceled over Chinese objections (green); Rosneft's Block 06-1 (red); and Sao Vang-Dai Nguyet (yellow). China's nine-dash line boundary is in red (Greg Poling / twitter)

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I don’t know what you are talking about. My family originally comes from Hanoi.
> 
> VN unity was won by contributions from all the people from north to central to south. So prosperity. From inland and overseas Vietnamese.
> 
> You defend the Chinese at every occasion but they can improve the relationship to Vietnam immediately if offering a non aggression pact. That will cost them nothing. There is a reason why the Chinese don’t do it.



He also very conveniently left out the same "Vietnamese Founding Father" fought the Chinese in 1979 and MANY OCCASION SINCE. Or rather, being killed by Chinese in 1979.

The problem is, be it French, Japanese, American, or Chinese that invaded Vietnam, there are only one country in that list Vietnam is bordering to, and it's said country policy that would have direct (both positive and negative) impact on Vietnam, and that country is not France, Japan or USA. care to guess which country is that? 

LOL

I love how @AViet stick up to the Chinese tho.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Viet said:


> In fact, for hundreds if not thousands of years Vietnam foreign policy is very focused on China, nowadays the previous Middle Kingdom is seen as important as the kingdom of Netherlands. E.i. not much relevant.



*The North East Asia* (NEA) integration modeled after the European Union is no longer a dream!

Under the guise of The European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC), the first post WWII attempt to unify the Europeans was masterminded by Charles de Gaulle.
It was formally established in 1951 by 6 nations, Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Luxembourg.
By 2018, 28 nations have joined the EU, with Ukraine and Turkey's memberships still pending...

Today, the first core for a future North East Asia Union is integrating the three NEA powerhouses under the East Asian Core Observatories Association (EACOA): China, Korea and Japan.
_
On Sep. 21, 2005, during a ceremony at NAOJ mitaka campus in Japan, a memorandum of understanding for the East Asian Core Observatories Association (EACOA) was signed by the Head vice Director of National Astronomical Observatories of Chinese Academy of Sciences (NAOC), Dr. Zhao Gang, the President of Korea Astronomy and Space Science Institute (KASI), Dr. Seok Jae Park, the Director of Academia Sinica Institute of Astronomy and Astrophysics (ASIAA), Dr. Paul Ho, and the Director General of the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan (NAOJ), Dr. Norio Kaifu in the presence of lots of guests from the East Asian countries.

http://www.eacoa.net/index.php
http://english.nao.cas.cn/ic2015/isatp2015/201703/t20170329_175449.html​_
Unsurprisingly, Vietnam that sees its future in the NEA sphere is already mulling its full membership!

_Opinions of the Korean Astronomy Community on the EAO Issues raised by EAO Director Paul Ho on Mar. 25, 2017

5.should EAO sign agreement with vietnam

(Conclusion) Conditional yes.
(Reasons) Depends on if Vietnam pays her share or gets some limited privilege/status. 

http://home.kias.re.kr/MKG/upload/2017ssg/S1_4_Park_EAO.pdf​_







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...8/?temp_hash=eaca4d86a5f4bb7a36685448f162ff6b
http://
http://



▲ NEA wants you!







Spoiler: Links



https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...7/?temp_hash=fb6e9134d84799b07164a7ec9f101d1a
http://www.peopleschina.net/UploadFiles/20131019249800.jpg
http://www.peopleschina.net/Shuhua_show.asp?id=1182



▲ A powerful and prosperous East Asia from North to South possible if united.


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## Viet

jhungary said:


> He also very conveniently left out the same "Vietnamese Founding Father" fought the Chinese in 1979 and MANY OCCASION SINCE. Or rather, being killed by Chinese in 1979.
> 
> The problem is, be it French, Japanese, American, or Chinese that invaded Vietnam, there are only one country in that list Vietnam is bordering to, and it's said country policy that would have direct (both positive and negative) impact on Vietnam, and that country is not France, Japan or USA. care to guess which country is that?
> 
> LOL
> 
> I love how @AViet stick up to the Chinese tho.


I highly doubt he is Vietnamese. More like a Chinese clown.

He embraces racism, never misses an opportunity to create distrust between Vietnamese in the North and the in the South, between the Vietnamese inland and those in overseas.

He hates everything liberal, everything from the West. But he finds everything from China is Ok. Including their arrogance and aggression.

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## Galactic Penguin SST

Forget about the eternal litany of "China is stealing someone else's high technology". Now the next North East Asian technological powerhouse, namely the rising Indochinese Tiger is allegedly been caught red handed for the first time, trying to acquire sensitive military technology from a superpower!

The source stated that nuclear propulsion for hypersonic missile had been stolen in 2013 by the N.A.T.O.
It is unclear what space technology Indochina might have obtained.

*Indochina's Space Ambition Revealed*

_Second Russian Scientist Charged With Treason in July

July 30 2018 - 11:07

A second Russian scientist has reportedly been charged with sharing state secrets with another country this month, a week after the high-profile detention of a space researcher on treason charges.

Last week, Viktor Kudryavtsev, a scientist at one of Russia’s leading space research labs, was charged with state treason for a suspected leak of hypersonic missile technology to a NATO country in 2013. 

A member of the Public Monitoring Committee (PMC) prison watchdog said last Friday that a second scientist was found to have been detained on treason charges in July, despite prison wards having previously assured observers that only one scientist was being held.

Alexei Temiryov, 64, was detained on July 18 and placed under arrest for allegedly leaking secret documentation to Vietnam, his lawyer, Anna Polozova, was quoted as saying by the RBC news website Sunday.

His lawyer said that the information her client is accused of leaking was not classified. 

“All of it is in the public record, it’s in every textbook in every library,” she told RBC.

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/second-russian-scientist-charged-treason-july-62377​_


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## Viet

the images are about 10 years apart. the soldiers apparently get a bit more weight.











Vietnam army kitchen with Russia army chief Sergey Shoigu tasting spring rolls 











Vietnam defense industry scores some success last year, with 21 new built ships and 75 ships being repaired.

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## hoangsa74

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> Forget about the eternal litany of "China is stealing someone else's high technology". Now the next North East Asian technological powerhouse, namely the rising Indochinese Tiger is allegedly been caught red handed for the first time, trying to acquire sensitive military technology from a superpower!
> 
> The source stated that nuclear propulsion for hypersonic missile had been stolen in 2013 by the N.A.T.O.
> It is unclear what space technology Indochina might have obtained.
> 
> *Indochina's Space Ambition Revealed*
> 
> _Second Russian Scientist Charged With Treason in July
> 
> July 30 2018 - 11:07
> 
> A second Russian scientist has reportedly been charged with sharing state secrets with another country this month, a week after the high-profile detention of a space researcher on treason charges.
> 
> Last week, Viktor Kudryavtsev, a scientist at one of Russia’s leading space research labs, was charged with state treason for a suspected leak of hypersonic missile technology to a NATO country in 2013.
> 
> A member of the Public Monitoring Committee (PMC) prison watchdog said last Friday that a second scientist was found to have been detained on treason charges in July, despite prison wards having previously assured observers that only one scientist was being held.
> 
> Alexei Temiryov, 64, was detained on July 18 and placed under arrest for allegedly leaking secret documentation to Vietnam, his lawyer, Anna Polozova, was quoted as saying by the RBC news website Sunday.
> 
> His lawyer said that the information her client is accused of leaking was not classified.
> 
> “All of it is in the public record, it’s in every textbook in every library,” she told RBC.
> 
> https://themoscowtimes.com/news/second-russian-scientist-charged-treason-july-62377_​


and we all know who viet nam is trying to get those documents for


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## cochine

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> *The North East Asia* (NEA) integration modeled after the European Union is no longer a dream!
> 
> Under the guise of The European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC), the first post WWII attempt to unify the Europeans was masterminded by Charles de Gaulle.
> It was formally established in 1951 by 6 nations, Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Luxembourg.
> By 2018, 28 nations have joined the EU, with Ukraine and Turkey's memberships still pending...
> 
> Today, the first core for a future North East Asia Union is integrating the three NEA powerhouses under the East Asian Core Observatories Association (EACOA): China, Korea and Japan.
> _On Sep. 21, 2005, during a ceremony at NAOJ mitaka campus in Japan, a memorandum of understanding for the East Asian Core Observatories Association (EACOA) was signed by the Head vice Director of National Astronomical Observatories of Chinese Academy of Sciences (NAOC), Dr. Zhao Gang, the President of Korea Astronomy and Space Science Institute (KASI), Dr. Seok Jae Park, the Director of Academia Sinica Institute of Astronomy and Astrophysics (ASIAA), Dr. Paul Ho, and the Director General of the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan (NAOJ), Dr. Norio Kaifu in the presence of lots of guests from the East Asian countries.
> 
> http://www.eacoa.net/index.php
> http://english.nao.cas.cn/ic2015/isatp2015/201703/t20170329_175449.html_​
> Unsurprisingly, Vietnam that sees its future in the NEA sphere is already mulling its full membership!
> 
> _Opinions of the Korean Astronomy Community on the EAO Issues raised by EAO Director Paul Ho on Mar. 25, 2017
> 
> 5.should EAO sign agreement with vietnam
> 
> (Conclusion) Conditional yes.
> (Reasons) Depends on if Vietnam pays her share or gets some limited privilege/status.
> 
> http://home.kias.re.kr/MKG/upload/2017ssg/S1_4_Park_EAO.pdf_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Links
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...8/?temp_hash=eaca4d86a5f4bb7a36685448f162ff6b
> 
> 
> ▲ NEA wants you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Links
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/...7/?temp_hash=fb6e9134d84799b07164a7ec9f101d1a
> http://www.peopleschina.net/UploadFiles/20131019249800.jpg
> http://www.peopleschina.net/Shuhua_show.asp?id=1182
> 
> 
> ▲ A powerful and prosperous East Asia from North to South possible if united.



Vietnam ís member of ASEAN.


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## Ominae

Decided to come here and ask on the M18 carbine.

Is it based on the XM-177s captured from Allied Forces in the Vietnam War and then modernized? I was under the initial impression that Z111 makes them.


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## Viet

60 years after surrender, the French army returns to Vietnam. as a friend.






















New Coast Guard vessel of TT-1500 class
1.500 tons, speed 24 kn/h, range 4,000 miles






New camo

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## Aung Zaya

seem not bad.  

*Vietnam carrier stuns rivals in Myanmar with half-price blitz*
Mytel captures 4% market share in two months since debut

YUICHI NITTA, Nikkei staff writer September 04, 2018 12:01 JST



A Mytel showroom in central Yangon draws visitors.
YANGON -- Myanmar's mobile phone market has seen a rapid shift in market share with the arrival of newcomer Mytel, which has offered cutthroat discounts that have won the hearts of the nation's users.

Supported by its powerful Vietnamese parent Viettel Group, the new entry has managed to capture 4% of the market after only two months in operation. 

"I keep hearing the commercials, so I decided to try them out," a 30-year old man said at a Mytel showroom in Yangon. The provider, first established in 2016, finally launched mobile services nationwide in June. Signs and posters featuring its orange and white logo have festooned Yangon's cityscape since that date.

The biggest draw for Mytel, also known as Telecom International Myanmar, is its dirt-cheap rates. A 30-day, 5-gigabyte data plan sells for 3,500 kyat ($2.31), which is less than half the rate set by Myanmar's biggest carrier, the state-run Myanma Posts and Telecommunications.

Myanmar's mobile customers chiefly purchase prepaid plans, and people are free to switch SIM cards at will. Many users hold SIM cards for multiple carriers that are chosen depending on the situation.

At the end of June, the three biggest carriers in Myanmar catered to 53 million total customers. Mytel's price-cutting strategy drew 2.4 million users by the middle of August, translating to a market share topping 4%.

Back in Vietnam, it took Viettel a full year to attract 2 million customers. The telecom owns 49% of Mytel, while the remainder is split between two other Myanmar shareholders.





Myanmar is Viettel's 10th foreign market since launching operations in Cambodia in 2009. Its overseas footprint extends all the way to Mozambique and Haiti.

Viettel has since built up a commanding 46% market share in Cambodia, as well as a 50% slice in East Timor. Offshore operations generated 19 trillion dong ($815 million) last year, more than quadruple the figure in 2010.

But the telecom established its business most rapidly in Myanmar, where the cellphone saturation rate has jumped from 32.9% in 2014 to 81.5% last year. MPT used to hold a domestic monopoly, but the transition from military rule to a civilian government ushered in Norway's Telenor and Qatar's Ooredoo, which both launched services in 2014. That same year, MPT forged a joint tie-up with Japanese mobile carrier KDDI and Tokyo-based trading house Sumitomo Corp.

Myanmar's three major rivals have been on edge over Mytel's encroachment. They issued a joint statement in February agreeing to "abide by sound price competition practices" -- a thinly-veiled rebuke against Mytel's discounted price schedule.




A woman sells Mytel prepaid cards at a shop in Yangon. (Photo by Yuichi Nitta)
Last year, the Myanmar government banned sales of loss-making mobile plans and the free distribution of SIM cards in a bid to curb excessive competition. But because Mytel is a new player, it won an exemption for its discounts.

However, "the rates are expected to be hiked to the same level as other companies eventually," said an industrial insider, with the exemptions likely expiring by early September.

Even so, Mytel will end up accepting 4 million to 5 million contracts by the end of the year, according to Zaw Min Oo, the company's chief public relations officer. The company is offering plans bundled with low-end devices manufactured in Vietnam, and is flooding the television airwaves with commercials.

Mytel is able to afford the low-price strategy because of the backing of Viettel, a state enterprise directly controlled by Vietnam's defense ministry. Viettel commands a 47% market share in Vietnam, far outstripping the 26% share of its closest rival MobiFone.

Viettel's profit margin approaches 20%, giving it the financial resources to weather loss-leading investments. The group's access to Vietnam's military-industrial complex yields contractors and professionals who minimize the costs of building and managing telecom equipment.

Although Mytel has endeavored to toe the regulatory boundaries with its aggressive discounting, one sales campaign apparently crossed the line. Around June, authorities ordered the carrier to halt a lottery-type promotion that gives away free services through an app. Complaints from rivals initiated the corrective action.

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## Viet

the recent Vietnam/Russia summit brought many interesting aspects including Vietnam having agreed to buy Russia´s miliary gears for over $1 billion. the number of T90 tanks look to increase.
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/dipl...ks-russia-it-strikes-us1-billion-weapons-deal












Vietnam appears still to operate Mig21, Mig23 and F5 figher jets as per recent pictures and reports.














46 of Su27, Su30 fighter jets receive new tracking radars.

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## Viet

Xi Jinping was not amused. On the way to Saigon, UK warship HMS Albion intentionally sailed close to the Paracels occupying by the PLA.

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## MacanJawa

nice sukhois, when su35?


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## Viet

MacanJawa said:


> nice sukhois, when su35?


Su35 is very expensive over $100m a piece. I think the VN will acquire the bird some time in the future but not yet. for instance the air defence still relies on Su22 fighter jets. for targets at sea, the Su22s carry Kh29 antiship missiles.

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## Svantana

GoViet grand launch event with Mr Jokowi and Mr Nadiem Makariem (the owner of GoJek)


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## Viet

Svantana said:


> GoViet grand launch event with Mr Jokowi and Mr Nadiem Makariem (the owner of GoJek)


Ok not defense but interesting though  I read the entry of gojek has created 25,000 jobs within a short time. Impressive performance.All the best to the new company goViet

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## initial_d

Viet said:


> Ok not defense but interesting though  I read the entry of gojek has created 25,000 jobs within a short time. Impressive performance.All the best to the new company goViet
> 
> View attachment 499230
> View attachment 499231


In indonesia, those kind of helmet are illegal, why Nadiem Makarim (ceo of gojek) not giving the go viet helmet the same as the indonesian go jek helmet that are more savety


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## Viet

initial_d said:


> In indonesia, those kind of helmet are illegal, why Nadiem Makarim (ceo of gojek) not giving the go viet helmet the same as the indonesian go jek helmet that are more savety


Vietnam is lax in that regard. Helmets are sometimes something of a deco, people not taking too serious. Long way to go. True, a change of sentiment is required.


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## Viet

Japanese attack submarine Kuroshio pays port call to Cam Ranh bay.

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## Viet

Perfect 

After the expansion of X52 shipyard is complete by 2019, the yard will be able to perform maintenance, repair and overhaul of submarines.






https://www.janes.com/article/81700/vietnam-upgrades-navy-mro-capabilities

Maybe Chinese and Taiwanese submarines want to dock and receive maintenance and refuel?

@TaiShang

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## Viet

September 17, White House, US president Donald Trump receives the new Vietnamese embassador to the US, Ha Kim Ngoc. The core component of America first policy is, as Donald Trump once said it bluntly in a speech, America seeking strong partners, not weaklings.

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## Viet

*Vietnam Military Spending*

The Vietnam Government allotted US$5 Billion towards military expenditure in 2017, of that 32.7% is earmarked for the acquisition of defense equipment. Additionally, the country is within the method of addressing its limitations with respect to combating trendy threat scenarios with its existing obsolete equipment, and has kicked off military modernization plans over the previous few years.

The country’s defense expenditure increased at a CAGR of xx% over 2017-2023. Within the returning years, demand for defense equipment is principally expected to revolve around fighter and multi-role aircraft, naval vessels, patrol ships, maritime patrol aircraft, submarines, and surveillance equipment. The country’s defense expenditure is predicted to extend at a CAGR of 7+%.

*Browse Full Report: *https://www.marketresearchengine.com/vietnam-defense-system-market

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## Viet

New office building of defense ministry in Hanoi. The massive complex is said can withstand fire, earthquake and bomb blast

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## frequency

Trần Đại Quang is dead! YAY!!

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## Svantana

Go-viet


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## Viet

“It was with sadness that I learned of the passing of President Tran Dai Quang”. 

“President Quang was a great friend of the US. He graciously hosted me during my historic state visit to Hanoi in November 2017, and I am grateful for his personal commitment to deepening the US-Vietnam Comprehensive Partnership,” 

“We will not soon forget his contributions to peace, security, and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region or his voice for Vietnam as a proud and independent nation on the world stage,” 


- Donald Trump -


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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> Ok not defense but interesting though  I read the entry of gojek has created 25,000 jobs within a short time. Impressive performance.All the best to the new company goViet
> 
> View attachment 499230
> View attachment 499231


ohh. if we call goViet , it come with those beacutiful drivers ?  must try in coming trip to Hanoi

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## Viet

First image of Su30 bomber armed by r77 air-to-air missile. Acceleration 8g, top speed Mach 4, max range 175 km.


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## TaiShang

China, Vietnam vow to take ties to new high

CGTN
2018-09-29 18:35 GMT+8












Zhao Leji, a senior official of the Communist Party of China (CPC), on Saturday concluded his official visit to Vietnam, where he and Vietnamese officials agreed to push forward bilateral ties.

Zhao, a member of the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee and secretary of CPC's Central Commission for Discipline Inspection, started visiting Vietnam on Wednesday.

During his meeting with Nguyen Phu Trong, general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) Central Committee, Zhao said thanks to the guidance by the general secretaries of both parties, the relations between the two parties and the two countries have seen a healthy and steady development.

Zhao noted that his visit was aimed at implementing the important consensus reached by the two parties' general secretaries, enhance strategic communication, promote the exchange of visits by high-level officials and deepen substantial cooperation, so as to lift the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation to a higher level.





A stand of Vietnam is seen during the 13th China-ASEAN Expo in Nanning, south China, September 12, 2016. /VCG Photo

*Nguyen Phu Trong said the Vietnam-China relations are at the best time in history, adding that the achievements accomplished by China not only benefit Chinese people, but also drive Vietnam's development and elevate bilateral ties.*

The general secretary noted that the Vietnamese side is willing to enhance exchanges on theoretic innovation and practical experience between the two parties, implement consensus reached by the two parties in an all-out manner, and deepen cooperation in various fields, so as to enrich the traditional friendly cooperative relationship between the two countries.

During his meeting with Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan, chairwoman of Vietnam's National Assembly, Zhao said *this year marks the 10th anniversary of the establishment of the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation* and the general secretaries of both parties exchanged historic visits in 2015 and 2017 and reached important consensus.

Zhao said both sides should further increase political mutual trust, deepen cooperation between their legislative bodies and join hands to consolidate the political and social foundation of China-Vietnam relations.

Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan said the increased exchanges between the two parties' high-level officials play a vital role in boosting Vietnam-China relations, and *Vietnam's National Assembly is willing to enhance cooperation with China's National People's Congress on legislation and supervision.*

During his meeting with Tran Quoc Vuong, a member of the Politburo of the CPV Central Committee and permanent member of the CPV Central Committee's secretariat, Zhao said the CPC and CPV share the duty to safeguard and develop the China-Vietnam relations, *noting that the CPC is willing to enhance exchanges and cooperation in various fields with the CPV.*

Tran Quoc Vuong spoke highly of the Vietnam-China relations and China's development achievements, stressing the willingness to deepen the exchanges and cooperation between the two parties and join hands to push forward the steady development of the relations between the two countries.

During his talks with Tran Cam Tu, member of the CPV Central Committee's Secretariat and head of the Committee's Inspection Commission, Zhao said the Chinese side is willing to deepen exchanges of experience and push forward cooperation in various fields between the two parties and the two countries, handle the differences in an appropriate manner and join hands to make progress in elevating the China-Vietnam comprehensive strategic partnership of cooperation.

Tran Cam Tu said it is the Vietnamese party's and government's long-term policy to carry forward the Vietnam-China traditional friendship, expressing the willingness to implement the cooperation mechanism and properly handle differences so as to expand bilateral cooperation in an all-out manner.

Both sides agreed to promote exchanges in discipline inspection, and enhance cooperation in anti-corruption. They also attended a signing ceremony for a memorandum of understanding on cooperation between the discipline inspection departments.

During his tour in Vietnam, Zhao also attended a photo exhibition marking the 40th anniversary of China's reform and opening up and the 32th anniversary of Vietnam's reform and innovation drive. Zhao also paid a visit to the memorial hall of Ho Chi Minh, expressing respect to the late leader of Vietnam.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d514e3249544e7a457a6333566d54/share_p.html

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## Viet

Some guests coming for a visit

India’s destroyer INS Rana









Canada‘s frigate HMCS Calgary









New Zealand‘s frigate Te Mana

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## Suika

Don't think this has been noticed so thought it worth putting it up.

A Vietnamese warship visited Japan for the first time. Its the frigate Tran Hung Dao, visiting from September 27th until September 30th at Yokosuka. JS Asuka will serve as host-ship during the visit.
http://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/release/201809/20180925-02.pdf

Here are Trần Hưng Đạo and Asuka starting at 3:09

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## Viet

Suika said:


> Don't think this has been noticed so thought it worth putting it up.
> 
> A Vietnamese warship visited Japan for the first time. Its the frigate Tran Hung Dao, visiting from September 27th until September 30th at Yokosuka. JS Asuka will serve as host-ship during the visit.
> http://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/release/201809/20180925-02.pdf
> 
> Here are Trần Hưng Đạo and Asuka starting at 3:09


Interesting voyage as well as interesting event: Vietnam warship paying a port visit to Japan.

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## Suika

Nice photos, thanks for that.

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## Avicenna

Just a general question.

Are there plans to replace the SU-22 and what options are being looked at?


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## Viet

Avicenna said:


> Just a general question.
> 
> Are there plans to replace the SU-22 and what options are being looked at?


I wish I know but unfortunately I know nothing  there is indeed rumor as well as speculation Vietnam will buy a squadron Su35 fighter for $1 billion to strengthen air defense not only to keep the Chinese in check. Maybe not a coincidence Vietnam recently buys for $1 billion Russia military hardware but she did not undisclose what is inside in the package.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/03/will-vietnam-buy-a-squadron-of-russian-s-35-fighter-jets/

That is new:

For the first time ever Vietnam will send military medics to a UN mission to South Sudan, with 10 female medics included. To a country with Muslims a majority, treating women as second class.

Transported by a military aircraft from Australia airforce

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## Viet

A patrol vessel of Brunei, KDB Daruttaqwa, is paying port visit to Tien Sa. There are still lots of the world navies, Vietnam can invite for a party.

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## Viet

Vietnam coast guard vessel csb8001 pays a 4 day friendly visit to Chennai port (India).

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## Viet

It’s planned the two RAAF C17 transport aircraft carrying Vietnamese medics contingent to South Sudan will be refueled midair over Indian Ocean by Australia’s KC30 tankers.

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## Suika

Viet said:


> Interesting voyage as well as interesting event: Vietnam warship paying a port visit to Japan.
> 
> View attachment 502171
> View attachment 502168
> View attachment 502169
> View attachment 502170



Additionally, after its 3 day stay in Yokosuka from September 27th to the 30th, the Tran Hung Dao is heading to another Japanese port, Sakai port, for a stay from October 3rd to October 6th. JS Abukuma will serve as host ship at Sakai Port.
http://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/release/201810/20181002-01.pdf

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## Viet

Suika said:


> Additionally, after its 3 day stay in Yokosuka from September 27th to the 30th, the Tran Hung Dao is heading to another Japanese port, Sakai port, for a stay from October 3rd to October 6th. JS Abukuma will serve as host ship at Sakai Port.
> http://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/release/201810/20181002-01.pdf


That is nice.


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## Nilgiri



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## Suika

Suika said:


> Additionally, after its 3 day stay in Yokosuka from September 27th to the 30th, the Tran Hung Dao is heading to another Japanese port, Sakai port, for a stay from October 3rd to October 6th. JS Abukuma will serve as host ship at Sakai Port.
> http://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/release/201810/20181002-01.pdf



Here are some pictures from this visit.
























__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2012335082161533

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## Viet

Vietnam sells three 6,500 ton chemical tanker (BS01 class) to RoK.







RoK apparently continues phasing out old vessels and donates to friends. Vietnam will receive the next vessel 1,300 ton Yeosu class by end of this month. Top speed 32 kn, range 4,000 miles.

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## Viet

Vietnam government chief Nguyen Xuan Phuc will pay a visit to Japan on Sunday. He will hold talk with Shinzo Abe.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...olving-tensions-south-china-sea/#.W7j9ykXRaEc


Some more nice pics of missile frigate Tran Hung Dao in Japan

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## Viet

*Vietnam has upgraded Kalashnikov AKM under the name STL-1A *
weapons defence industry military technology UK
POSTED ON WEDNESDAY, 26 SEPTEMBER 2018 15:04


Vietnam`s defense industry has upgraded the Kalashnikov-derivate STL-1A 7.62 mm assault rifle, a Vietnamese military source told TASS. The STL-1A is a locally made copy of the renowned Kalashnikov AKM assault rifle. The STL-1A has received an attaching lug for the M203 40 mm under-barrel grenade launcher (UGL), new plastic handguard, folding buttstock, ergonomic pistol grip, and updated muzzle brake.






*STL-A1 assault riffle, modernized AK-74/AKM assault rifle, with AK-74M muzzle break and folding stock, along with the 40mm M203 grenade launcher style. (Picture source hollilla.com)*


"Since the early 2000s, the People`s Army of Vietnam (PAVN) has been searching for a new organic firearm. A Kalashnikov-type assault rifle is the best option as its gas-operating scheme is the most reliable one and can be used in hot and wet climate in an effective manner. Along with the manufacturing of the Israeli-originated Galil 31 ACE assault rifle under license, the local industry is considering modernization of previously developed Kala[shnikov]-type firearms, namely, the AKM-VN and STL-1A," the source said.

The Vietnamese defense industry does not disclose any specifications of the STL-1A. "We convert ageing Soviet-made AKM assault rifles into the STL-1As," an industrial source told TASS. "The Vietnamese military is now receiving the STL-1A," he added.

Vietnam`s new development in the field of small arms resembles the Kalashnikov Group`s (a subsidiary of Rostec state corporation) AK-103 7.62 mm assault rifle. Like the AK-103, the STL-1A has received an AK-74-type single-chamber muzzle break, folding buttstock and polymer handguard. However, the Vietnamese weapon is fed by 30-round metal magazines of the basic AK. The GP-25/GP-34 40 mm UGL has been replaced by the M203 40 mm launcher that is being produced in Vietnam. It should be mentioned that the STL-1A carries a Vietnamese-type side-mounted attaching lug for sights. "The optical or red dot sights with the dovetail mount can hardly be installed," the industrial source said.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/wea...ed_kalashnikov_akm_under_the_name_stl-1a.html

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## Nilgiri

More from the recent exercise with India:

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## Viet

Missile frigate Hung Dao participates RoK international fleet review 2018 in Jeju.

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## Viet

CONTENT PREVIEW
Industry
*Nexter looks to build its profile in Vietnam*
*Jon Grevatt* - IHS Jane's Defence Industry
10 October 2018





Nexter has said it is looking for industrial partnerships in Vietnam, where it is promoting products including its CAESAR 155 mm artillery system, seen here integrated with a Tatra 8×8 chassis. Source: Nexter


Nexter is stepping up efforts to secure industrial partnerships in Vietnam as part of the French defence group’s wider efforts to expand its profile in Southeast Asia.

A spokesperson for the company said on 9 October that its attendance at the recent Homeland Security Expo in Hanoi, which took place 3–4 October, is geared towards supporting the industrial strategy.

“Nexter is a recognised actor in Southeast Asia, especially in the artillery and ammunition domains,” a company spokesperson told _Jane’s_ .

“Our aim is to promote Nexter throughout the region [and] that is the reason why we [were] in Vietnam for the Homeland exhibition. In Vietnam, we are looking for opportunities [for] industrial partnerships. Moreover, as we always do with our clients and users, we intend to build strong and long-term relationships.”

The spokesperson added that the company showcased its products at the Defence Services Asia (DSA) exhibition in April 2018 and will be also be exhibiting at the Indo Defence show in early November.

In Hanoi Nexter profiled equipment including its CAESAR 155 mm/52-calibre self-propelled howitzer and 105 mm LG1 light towed artillery system, as well as its battlefield management solutions. With these products, Nexter already has a strong presence in the region.

Its most recent large contract was announced at DSA in Kuala Lumpur. In this programme, Nexter and its Malaysian partner Advanced Defence Systems (ADS) were selected to supply 18 LG1 artillery systems to the Malaysian Army, with deliveries of the guns expected to start in 2019 and be completed by February 2020.

The contract, the value of which was not disclosed, also envisages that the integration and maintenance of the guns will be carried out locally by ADS. The LG1 has also been procured by Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand.


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## Viet

It makes sense if Vietnam can self-produce the French artillery and shells domestically, I believe. The performance of the gun is not too bad.


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## Viet

Vietnam/RoK naval showcase and cooperation

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## Viet

The Marines’ recent live fire exercise

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## Viet

Landing in South Sudan of the medics after a long flight
























Snipers? They will probably be tasked to protect the medics camp.

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## sahureka2

here is the frigate Pohang YeosuPCC-765 class already with the new optical number 20 assigned by Vietnam, this time the ship is transferred with original armament, 2 turrets OtoMelara 76/62 and 2 turrets Breda Dardo 40/70, 2x3 324mm torpedo tube ASW

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnamese T-90 undergone water-tight testing.

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## Viet

Russia-made T90s for Vietnam
Would be great if Vietnam can produce them domestically.


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## Viet

https://vtdigger.org/2018/10/18/mattis-visits-agent-orange-cleanup-site-vietnam-call-leahy/

Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis visited Bien Hoa, where a decade-long remediation effort led by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) is expected to begin next year at a cost of $390 million.


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## Viet

Vietnam’s first ever 4,000 ton submarine rescue vessel, under construction, built by z189 shipyard has great export potential. Especially Australia that builds up a large submarine fleet. The rescue ship of MSSARS 9316 model will be complete in 2 years.

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## Viet

After visit in RoK, missile frigate Hung Dao is paying a visit to Chinese naval base (an opportunity to spot Chinese warships at close distance ).
















Readying submarines for patrols at highsea


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## Viet

*NWI - NAVAL WARFARE*
*Vietnam receives second ROKN corvette*
17th October 2018 - 08:54 GMT | by Gordon Arthur







Vietnam’s second 1,200t Pohang-class corvette – formerly operated by the Republic of Korea Navy (ROKN) – appeared in a South Korean international fleet review off the coast of Jeju on 11 October.

The former ROKS Yeosu now carries pennant number HQ-20 in the Vietnam People’s Navy.


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## Carlosa

I’m sharing my article on Medium.com about the #Vietnamese Kilo submarine force & a review of the latest Russian Kilo 636.3 Class. A very extensive, long analysis. @Nilgiri @Viet 




Viet said:


> After visit in RoK, missile frigate Hung Dao is paying a visit to Chinese naval base (an opportunity to spot Chinese warships at close distance ).
> 
> View attachment 508433
> 
> View attachment 508431
> 
> View attachment 508438
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Readying submarines for patrols at highsea
> 
> View attachment 508451
> View attachment 508452
> View attachment 508456
> View attachment 508458
> View attachment 508460

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> I’m sharing my article on Medium.com about the #Vietnamese Kilo submarine force & a review of the latest Russian Kilo 636.3 Class. A very extensive, long analysis. @Nilgiri @Viet


He Carlosa amigo nice to see you here again from time to time. I will check the link but would you mind to post the article here too?

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> He Carlosa amigo nice to see you here again from time to time. I will check the link but would you mind to post the article here too?



Thank you my friend, its good to see you here. The link its better, Its a very long article, I really mean very long, many pages, lots of pictures. Too much to post. Check it out.

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## Nilgiri

Carlosa said:


> I’m sharing my article on Medium.com about the #Vietnamese Kilo submarine force & a review of the latest Russian Kilo 636.3 Class. A very extensive, long analysis. @Nilgiri @Viet



Great read! Thanks!

@AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec

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## AMG_12

Nilgiri said:


> Great read! Thanks!
> 
> @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec


Welcome back bro

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Thank you my friend, its good to see you here. The link its better, Its a very long article, I really mean very long, many pages, lots of pictures. Too much to post. Check it out.


So I finally managed to read thru your article. Very comprehensive analysis and very well written. Not too bad. I personally think Vietnam needs more quantity. Acquiring 6 more submarines in the medium term would be ideal. Aip and ballistic missile capability would be a nice add-on.

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## Carlosa

Viet said:


> So I finally managed to read thru your article. Very comprehensive analysis and very well written. Not too bad. I personally think Vietnam needs more quantity. Acquiring 6 more submarines in the medium term would be ideal. Aip and ballistic missile capability would be a nice add-on.



Yes, Vietnam needs another 6 subs in order to have a powerful deterrence. As far as I know, the next sub purchase will be for European subs. Vietnam had been negotiating with Italy for the purchase of the S-1000 sub, but nothing has been heard since.

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Yes, Vietnam needs another 6 subs in order to have a powerful deterrence. As far as I know, the next sub purchase will be for European subs. Vietnam had been negotiating with Italy for the purchase of the S-1000 sub, but nothing has been heard since.


I am pretty sure negotiations are under way to get more subs. It takes time as Vietnam is choosy wanting the best deals. More subs not for fun but to counter the increasing threat from the China naval fleets. But I understand now the economy is top priority, m the buildup can increase step by step. Very helpful if Vietnam gets money by selling military stuffs to friendly countries.

Vietnam at Indo Defence 2018

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## Viet

These ships displayed on Indo Defence are remarkable because they prove: Vietnam can mass produce missile corvette and support ships.











Submarine launched land attack cruise missile 3M-14E. Will Vietnam master the technology to produce the missile en mass and extend the range to 2.500 km as initially designed.

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## Viet

CNBC, a US broadcaster reports despite US sanction threat, Vietnam wants to go ahead with the acquisition of Russia-made S400 missile defense system.

https://de.sputniknews.com/politik/20181115322967630-usa-sanktionen-russland-s400/

Maybe Vietnam should drive both rails ...not only Russia but also by acquisition of F35 fighter aircraft. Donald Trump government repeatedly urges Vietnam to buy US weapons.


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## Viet

Coast guard receiving new and modern ships recently although the pace seems to slow down a bit.

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## Viet

Classic tank buster











Machine gun Pkms, reportedly also available on sale for exports 






















The gun appears to be a variant of China-made machine gun Pkm.





Different varieties of assault rifles






AK47







Mini loud less granate launcher 






12.7mm Kvsk

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## Viet

Also on display at Indo Defence 2018

Vietnam-made gun boat TT-400TP

Who wants to buy?

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## Svantana

Viet said:


> Also on display at Indo Defence 2018

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## Svantana

glimpse some Vietnam naval product at Indodefense 2018

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## Aqsuperman

The picture is taken from Comrade Commissar

Judging from the look, it's a VERA passive radar. Quite a good piece of sensor for the VPAF.

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## Viet

Unteroffizier 







Infantry

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## Viet

Launching Vietnam’s fastest passenger ship, 35 knots, I think also suitable for transporting troops to remote islands.







That’s more for leisure.

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## Viet

A big fish: Vietnam’s Austal shipyard is about to deliver a US$97.7 million catamaran to Trinidad. The vessel can carry 926 passengers and 250 cars at speeds of 37.5 knots. A good step forward. It’s still a long way until Vietnam can build frigates and destroyers though.

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## Viet

31 T90S tanks are built. Still many to go. Seen on letter “B” (Вьетнама - Việt Nam) painted on tanks inside Russia’s tank factory UralVagonZavod.
























There is speculation Vietnam may get tank kits from Russia and build them into complete tanks at home. Actually a Win win for Russia and Vietnam. Cheaper. Vietnam tank armies could need 1,000 modern tanks in addition to the existing 1,500 legacy tanks.

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## Viet

Vietnam buys 3 Heron UAV 1 from Israel Aerospace in a $160 million deal.

https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-...ell-drones-to-vietnam-in-160m-deal-1001263894







A Vietnam-made mini satellite “microdragon” is complete and ready to be launched for January 17, 2019 into orbit. mission: monitoring the sea and waters along coastal areas. A Japanese Epsilon-4 rocket from the Uchinoura Space Centre will carry the mini sat among with 6 other into space.












Interesting: in theory Japan can use Epsilon rocket as ICBM. Just a bit of modification though.











@Suika
@Nilgiri

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Vietnam buys 3 Heron UAV 1 from Israel Aerospace in a $160 million deal.
> 
> https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-...ell-drones-to-vietnam-in-160m-deal-1001263894
> 
> View attachment 525498
> 
> 
> 
> A Vietnam-made mini satellite “microdragon” is complete and ready to be launched for January 17, 2019 into orbit. mission: monitoring the sea and waters along coastal areas. A Japanese Epsilon-4 rocket from the Uchinoura Space Centre will carry the mini sat among with 6 other into space.
> 
> View attachment 525503
> 
> 
> View attachment 525500
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting: in theory Japan can use Epsilon rocket as ICBM. Just a bit of modification though.
> 
> View attachment 525505
> 
> 
> View attachment 525507
> 
> 
> @Suika
> @Nilgiri



Overtime I foresee much cooperation between Vietnam, Japan and India in aerospace. In Vietnam case, you will be needing more and more dual use tech with time (you mention space launcher/ICBM crossover for example) to cover large adversary with deterrence assets at minimal cost....and they serve well for civilian needs in the larger frontier economy too.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Overtime I foresee much cooperation between Vietnam, Japan and India in aerospace. In Vietnam case, you will be needing more and more dual use tech with time (you mention space launcher/ICBM crossover for example) to cover large adversary with deterrence assets at minimal cost....and they serve well for civilian needs in the larger frontier economy too.


I read India’s army wants to acquire the newer version of Heron drones that is also an interesting concept of defense for Vietnam too. The drone can start from the deck of any medium to large warship. Virtually turning any warship into a carrier.

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## JohnWick

Hey buddy a good news it is!

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## Suika

Viet said:


> Vietnam buys 3 Heron UAV 1 from Israel Aerospace in a $160 million deal.
> 
> https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-...ell-drones-to-vietnam-in-160m-deal-1001263894
> 
> View attachment 525498
> 
> 
> 
> A Vietnam-made mini satellite “microdragon” is complete and ready to be launched for January 17, 2019 into orbit. mission: monitoring the sea and waters along coastal areas. A Japanese Epsilon-4 rocket from the Uchinoura Space Centre will carry the mini sat among with 6 other into space.
> 
> View attachment 525503
> 
> 
> View attachment 525500
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting: in theory Japan can use Epsilon rocket as ICBM. Just a bit of modification though.
> 
> View attachment 525505
> 
> 
> View attachment 525507
> 
> 
> @Suika
> @Nilgiri



Yeah the epsilon rocket requires very little manpower for operation and is very flexible in way of launching. It can be used as the basis of an ICBM should it be deemed necessary.

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## Viet

*Vietnam may drop purchase of new batch of Israeli air defense missile systems – source*

Military & Defense
December 13, 8:04UTC+3
*A source close to Vietnam’s Defense Ministry told TASS Israeli SPYDER short-range air defense missile systems "operate poorly in tropical conditions and regularly break down”*






*SPYDER short-range air defense missile systems*

© AP Photo/Joseph Nair

MOSCOW, December 13. /TASS/. Vietnam may give up further purchases of Israeli SPYDER (Surface-to-air PYthon and DERby) short-range air defense missile systems due to flaws found in these weapons, a source close to Vietnam’s Defense Ministry told TASS.

The Defense Ministry of Vietnam is against purchasing a new batch of Israeli SPYDER short-range systems. Specifically, in the estimate of military specialists, these systems operate poorly in tropical conditions and regularly break down,” the source said.

The SPYDER weapons are also incompatible with the earlier supplied Russian surface-to-air missile systems, “which lowers the efficiency of Vietnam’s united air defense,” the source added.

“The Israeli systems have been test-fired in Vietnam since the beginning of this year and in most cases these firings failed,” the source noted.

TASS does not yet have official comments from the Vietnamese and Israeli defense ministries.

A contract with Israel’s Rafael for the delivery of SPYDER surface-to-air missile systems to Vietnam was signed in 2015. The sum of the deal was not disclosed. According to open sources, the Vietnamese side then acquired five or six batteries of these air defense systems and 250 missiles for them.

http://tass.com/defense/1035771

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## Viet

Why buying a missile system that can’t work in the tropical climate?
Crazy. Israel should quickly provide a bug fix. Otherwise it’s a gap in Vietnam united air defense.











@Nilgiri

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Why buying a missile system that can’t work in the tropical climate?
> Crazy. Israel should quickly provide a bug fix. Otherwise it’s a gap in Vietnam united air defense.
> 
> View attachment 526467
> 
> 
> View attachment 526469
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri



They were under trial or you already bought them?


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> They were under trial or you already bought them?


Don’t know. Either someone was sleeping when making decision or the missile was only test fired in Israel.

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## Viet

*108 Military Central Hospital to open modern 2,000-bed facility*
Update: December, 14/2018 - 18:10





The 108 Military Central Hospital central building is the country’s largest and most modern medical facility.— Photo courtesy of the hospital


Viet Nam News

HÀ NỘI — The 108 Military Central Hospital *will put its central building into operation* *on December 17* as the *country’s largest and most modern medical facility after more than seven years of construction.*

Located inside *the current hospital at No1 Trần Hưng Đạo Street, Hoàn Kiếm District, Hà Nội*, the construction consists of three buildings (two 22-storey buildings with a height of 108m and a 10-storey building) with a total floor area of 150,000sq.m and 2,000 beds, with capacity for 4,000 in emergencies.

The building is the country’s only medical facility with 50 positive-pressure operating rooms, including *45 standard operating rooms, three organ transplant operating rooms and two hybrid operating rooms. *The hybrid rooms are equipped with advanced diagnosis, intervention and surgery facilities such as MRI machines, CT Scanners and a robotic intervention imaging system.

"With patient-centered orientation, the building has been equipped with many modern facilities that meet international standards to provide accuracy, speed and satisfaction to patients," said Deputy Director of the 108 Military Central Hospital Phạm Nguyên Sơn.

Sơn said as the highest level of military hospital, the hospital receives between 4,000 – 5,000 patients daily. In 2018, it has provided health checkups and examination for nearly a million patients.





The gas transportation system is used to transport samples, drugs, medical instruments weighing from 3 to 5 kg.— Photo courtesy of the hospital


To reduce waiting time of patients and increase efficiency in medical examination and treatment, the hospital will be the first medical facility in the country to operate two gas and conveyor transport systems. The gas transportation system is used to transport samples, drugs, medical instruments weighing from three to five kilos.

"With gas and conveyor transportation systems, samples are transferred automatically from the lab to the testing centre that helps to reduce human power and health workers would have more time to take care for patients," said Sơn.

In addition, the hospital also has an advanced automated testing system that can perform 3,600 tests per hour.

"This automated testing system help improving quality and quantity of tests and shortening the waiting time of patients," stressed Sơn.

This facility will contribute to the enhancement of scientific and technical resources for scientific research, training, technology transfer for the medical staff in the military sector as well as medical facilities in the country, according to Sơn. — VNS


Read more at http://vietnamnews.vn/society/48207...rn-2000-bed-facility.html#Kkdo7GsosUdp4sBz.99


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Don’t know. Either someone was sleeping when making decision or the missile was only test fired in Israel.



We have had issues with Spike ATGM from Israel too. But they were just under trial and now cancelled, we will make a local system with optimised sensor for our desert conditions.


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> We have had issues with Spike ATGM from Israel too. But they were just under trial and now cancelled, we will make a local system with optimised sensor for our desert conditions.


I think the problem can be solved by air con?

@jhungary


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> I think the problem can be solved by air con?
> 
> @jhungary



Well our operational requirement needs certain temperature range to be met. Also the problem was in discerning the target from the background when there is lot of ambient background heat/mirage (rather than the issue being the local heat of the system)...sensor cooling can only help so much with that, rather it needs an optimised logic and clutter control etc for the specific desert at hand. 

@Signalian @randomradio @Water Car Engineer @django


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## warzone

Nilgiri said:


> We have had issues with Spike ATGM from Israel too. But they were just under trial and now cancelled, we will make a local system with optimised sensor for our desert conditions.


 I am pretty sure it's because of the high humidity of VN tropical weather and also the rainy season (half a year) must affect the system performance and damage it (electronic). Did they test the system during the rainy season before the purchase? I hope it just incompetence and no corruption involved.

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## Nilgiri

warzone said:


> I am pretty sure it's because of the high humidity of VN tropical weather and also the rainy season (half a year) must affect the system performance and damage it (electronic). Did they test the system during the rainy season before the purchase? I hope it just incompetence and no corruption involved.



Yes tropics can do that (Mig 21 for example needed lot of modification to be flown at heavy sortie rate in India conditions compared to USSR). Not sure at what stage of testing the Spyder was in for Vietnam. Whats clear is likely be cancelled now I think...unless some fix can be found.

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## Aqsuperman

There are rumors that a large number of "Russian tanks" have reached a certain Vietnam port. Naturally, people assume that they must be the long-awaited T-90s

Sadly, upon close inspection, these are likely T-72 "White Eagle" ordered by Laos. The tanks must have been in transit as Laos is a landlocked country.

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## Nike

Aqsuperman said:


> There are rumors that a large number of "Russian tanks" have reached a certain Vietnam port. Naturally, people assume that they must be the long-awaited T-90s
> 
> Sadly, upon close inspection, these are likely T-72 "White Eagle" ordered by Laos. The tanks must have been in transit as Laos is a landlocked country.



They need it to replacing their aging tanks


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## warzone

Nilgiri said:


> Yes tropics can do that (Mig 21 for example needed lot of modification to be flown at heavy sortie rate in India conditions compared to USSR). Not sure at what stage of testing the Spyder was in for Vietnam. Whats clear is likely be cancelled now I think...unless some fix can be found.


I think they can fix that problem on the few they have, it not a huge problem.



Marine Rouge said:


> They need it to replacing their aging tanks


Everyone want to have the money to change for the nice new car of the year, including you. Like everyone and every armies in the world, we can't do it because of lack of fund and others priorities.

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## randomradio

Viet said:


> I think the problem can be solved by air con?
> 
> @jhungary





Nilgiri said:


> Well our operational requirement needs certain temperature range to be met. Also the problem was in discerning the target from the background when there is lot of ambient background heat/mirage (rather than the issue being the local heat of the system)...sensor cooling can only help so much with that, rather it needs an optimised logic and clutter control etc for the specific desert at hand.
> 
> @Signalian @randomradio @Water Car Engineer @django



All we know is Spike failed trials because of the seeker being unable to handle desert temperatures. This is obviously not the complete picture. 

We don't know anything else like whether the problem is with cooling, the seeker itself or something else entirely, like difficult test conditions.



Viet said:


> Why buying a missile system that can’t work in the tropical climate?
> Crazy. Israel should quickly provide a bug fix. Otherwise it’s a gap in Vietnam united air defense.
> 
> View attachment 526467
> 
> 
> View attachment 526469
> 
> 
> @Nilgiri



They haven't mentioned if the problem is with the mobile launchers or the missiles or the radar or something else. 

Our SPYDERs are adequately tropicalised. Personally, I think it's a problem with the launcher, since that's the only thing India and Vietnam do not share in our respective SAMs. We use TATA while Vietnam uses MAN.

Of course, it could also be a very specific problem which occurred in Vietnam depending on the deployment patterns closer to the equator compared to India.

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## jhungary

Viet said:


> I think the problem can be solved by air con?
> 
> @jhungary



depending on how the missile failed, tracking sensor are very sensitive to ambient temperature, especially if the missile are heat seeking, the contrast is used to track the target. If so, Air-Con is useless as you cannot alter ambient temperature.

On the other hand, if the missile failed because of technical difficulty (like overheating and such) then air-con may be of use.

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## TenLua

Vietnam does not need tanks. Ot doesn’t need jets, what Viet Nam need is to legalize Marijuana. Just do it you stupid fucking backwards thinking motherfuckers.


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## randomradio

TenLua said:


> Vietnam does not need tanks. Ot doesn’t need jets, what Viet Nam need is to legalize Marijuana. Just do it you stupid fucking backwards thinking motherfuckers.



Isn't it the death penalty for even possession of marijuana?


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## Nilgiri

Haha @TenLua welcome back!



randomradio said:


> Isn't it the death penalty for even possession of marijuana?



I know it is in Singapore.....basically anything in possession more than even a gram (of MJ) or something like that....is considered to be drug trafficking = death penalty.

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## Aqsuperman

So a couple of Vietnamese fisherman just got their hand on a "weird" fish

Oh well, who am I kidding? It's a Chinese torpedo. Probably Yu-6 or its training variant, I think. Like the country it belongs to, PLAN does like to litter the sea with its junks.





















But we butchered it anyway :v

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## TenLua

Nilgiri said:


> Haha @TenLua welcome back!
> 
> 
> 
> I know it is in Singapore.....basically anything in possession more than even a gram (of MJ) or something like that....is considered to be drug trafficking = death penalty.



Thanks man.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> So a couple of Vietnamese fisherman just got their hand on a "weird" fish
> 
> Oh well, who am I kidding? It's a Chinese torpedo. Probably Yu-6 or its training variant, I think. Like the country it belongs to, PLAN does like to litter the sea with its junks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we butchered it anyway :v


Look fcking great: China peaceful rise

Vietnam warships can litter the seas by sea mines and torpedo too

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## The Ronin

The first T-90S for Vietnam

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## Viet

Ho chi Minh trail

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## Aqsuperman

And after months and months of waiting, we finally have our first batch of T-90s (In a stripped state it seems, 12.7mm HMG, electronic equipment, skirt armors are nowhere in sight. They must have come in a separate ship)

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## Aqsuperman

More picture about the arrival of Vietnam T-90s. I dare say this batch consists of at least 1e (battalion)

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> More picture about the arrival of Vietnam T-90s. I dare say this batch consists of at least 1e (battalion)


So how many tanks has a battalion? 64 something?

Do the tanks miss protective armor for the wheels?

A hit from the side, and the T90 is a sitting duck.


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> So how many tanks has a battalion? 64 something?
> 
> Do the tanks miss protective armor for the wheels?
> 
> A hit from the side, and the T90 is a sitting duck.



I believe a battalion has 40 - 60 tanks ...could be bit more if needed.

Armour Skirts for the wheels...are a weight/maintenance penalty...so depending on what the overall use for the tank regiment is (in the broader force structure)...they can be foregone (say if they are tasked with operations that are not expected to see much Anti-tank counterforce...or your doctrine simply based around overwhelming quickly with enough speed+numbers that per unit total protection is not a huge overriding priority)

@hellfire @Signalian @Vergennes @Desert Fox @The Sandman

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## Signalian

Viet said:


> So how many tanks has a battalion? 64 something?


Depends from country to country. 35 or 45 or 59.



> Do the tanks miss protective armor for the wheels?
> 
> A hit from the side, and the T90 is a sitting duck.




These tanks are in transit for a transfer, not battle ready for war, so side skirts arent required at this instant.

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## Nilgiri

Signalian said:


> Depends from country to country. 35 or 45 or 59.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These tanks are in transit for a transfer, not battle ready for war, so side skirts arent required at this instant.



Yeah I mean even if they dont put em on later...there can be reasons.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Yeah I mean even if they dont put em on later...there can be reasons.


Ok that makes sense. Should not be a problem to install the skirts before sending tanks into a battle.


Signalian said:


> Depends from country to country. 35 or 45 or 59.
> 
> These tanks are in transit for a transfer, not battle ready for war, so side skirts arent required at this instant.


At last Vietnam now has modern tanks. Even if we receive hundreds of T90s, I wonder how can we withstand a possible Chinese tank assault with ten of thousands of more modern tanks on the northern front?

Maybe some time in the future asking the Russians for a more powerful tank.






The VPA has experience in fighting a numerous enemy though. The battle of Quang Tri 1972 when 7 tanks of north Vietnamese army clashed with 130 tanks of Republican Army.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Even if we receive hundreds of T90s, I wonder how can we withstand a possible Chinese tank assault with ten of thousands of more modern tanks on the northern front?



Defensive formation and tactics and lot of anti-tank squads layered around....and lot of @Viva_Viet kinda ppl everywhere cant hurt.

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## Signalian

Viet said:


> View attachment 530224


M-110 or M-107


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## Viet

Signalian said:


> M-110 or M-107


Looks like M110. can bombard targets 25 miles away.


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## jhungary

Signalian said:


> M-110 or M-107





Viet said:


> Looks like M110. can bombard targets 25 miles away.
> 
> View attachment 530278



Those are M107s

The M110 is an upgrade build of old M107, the chassis is all but the same (some similarity inside), however, the Gun M110 uses and M107 uses are different. And can tell by one simple things at the tip of the barrel. That's the Muzzle Break.

M110's 203mm SPG have longer barrel and have a muzzle break at the end, while M107's 175mm gun don't have muzzle break at the end.

Also, @Viet, your photo is a M107 not a M110, it was used on M107 Wiki Page

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Those are M107s
> 
> The M110 is an upgrade build of old M107, the chassis is all but the same (some similarity inside), however, the Gun M110 uses and M107 uses are different. And can tell by one simple things at the tip of the barrel. That's the Muzzle Break.
> 
> M110's 203mm SPG have longer barrel and have a muzzle break at the end, while M107's 175mm gun don't have muzzle break at the end.
> 
> Also, @Viet, your photo is a M107 not a M110, it was used on M107 Wiki Page


Ah ok my wrong guess. US deployed many M110s during Vietnam war.



Nilgiri said:


> Defensive formation and tactics and lot of anti-tank squads layered around....and lot of @Viva_Viet kinda ppl everywhere cant hurt.


VV is right. In all the wars the Chinese raged against Vietnam they always fielded mass of soldiers that stormed Vietnamese defense lines. Read the war in the 14 century during the Ming dynasty.Chinese soldiers fell in mass but they kept coming.

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## Viet

T90 tanks
Photo by Nam Đức Bùi
Not so good in quality


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## Carlosa

In Vietnam a battalion has 31 tanks: 3 companies of 10 tanks each plus the commanding tank.



Signalian said:


> Depends from country to country. 35 or 45 or 59.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These tanks are in transit for a transfer, not battle ready for war, so side skirts arent required at this instant.

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> VV is right. In all the wars the Chinese raged against Vietnam they always fielded mass of soldiers that stormed Vietnamese defense lines. Read the war in the 14 century during the Ming dynasty.Chinese soldiers fell in mass but they kept coming.



Viva is a quality guy....and he adds to it by having 20+ chinese trolls here for breakfast whenever he pleases ...they honestly don't know how bad it looks optically for them (to take him on 1 vs 20 and come out worse) lol...it only adds credence to the assertions he makes (and of course the parallels in history like you mention).



Carlosa said:


> In Vietnam a battalion has 31 tanks: 3 companies of 10 tanks each plus the commanding tank.



Wow thats a really small company size to begin with and only 3 of them in a battalion huh. Happy new year my friend.

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## Jäger

the first T-90S MBT arrives in Vietnam

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## Viet

*Tough South China Sea talks ahead as Vietnam seeks to curb China's actions*

Reuters 
December 31, 2018

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Tough negotiations lie ahead over a new pact between China and Southeast Asian nations aimed at easing tensions in the South China Sea, as Vietnam pushes for provisions likely to prove unpalatable to Beijing, documents reviewed by Reuters suggest. 

Hanoi wants the pact to outlaw many of the actions China has carried out across the hotly disputed waterway in recent years, including artificial island building, blockades and offensive weaponry such as missile deployments, according to a negotiating draft of the ASEAN Code of Conduct (COC) seen by Reuters. 

The draft also shows Hanoi is pushing for a ban on any new Air Defence Identification Zone - something Beijing unilaterally announced over the East China Sea in 2013. Chinese officials have not ruled out a similar move, in which all aircraft are supposed to identify themselves to Chinese authorities, over the South China Sea. 

Hanoi is also demanding states clarify their maritime claims in the vital trade route according to international law – an apparent attempt to shatter the controversial “nine-dash line” by which China claims and patrols much of the South China Sea, the draft shows. 

“Going forward, there will be some very testy exchanges between the Vietnamese and China in particular over the text of this agreement,” said Singapore-based Ian Storey, a veteran South China Sea expert, who has seen the draft.

“Vietnam is including those points or activities that they want forbidden by the Code of Conduct precisely because China has been carrying these out for the last 10 years.” 

Le Thi Thu Hang, a spokeswoman at the Vietnam Foreign Ministry, said negotiations on the Code of Conduct had made some progress recently, with Vietnam actively participating and other countries showing “their constructive and cooperative spirit”. 

“Vietnam wishes related countries to continue their efforts and make a positive contribution to the negotiation process in order to achieve a substantive and effective COC in accordance with international law, especially the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, contributing to the maintenance of peace, stability and security in the East Sea (South China Sea) in particular and in the region in general,” she said. 

Singapore’s Foreign Ministry, the chair of the 10-nation ASEAN bloc for 2018, did not respond to a request for comment. 

“We cannot comment right now but Thailand certainly supports discussion on the single negotiating draft,” said Busadee Santipitaks, a spokeswoman for Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which takes over as ASEAN chair in the new year.

*CHINA SEEKS BAN ON OUTSIDER DRILLS *
The draft also confirms earlier reports that China wants military drills with outside powers in the South China Sea to be blocked unless all signatories agree. 

In addition, Beijing wants to exclude foreign oil firms by limiting joint development deals to China and South East Asia. Experts expect both elements to be strongly resisted by some ASEAN countries. 

“That is unacceptable,” one Southeast Asian diplomat told Reuters, referring specifically to the suggested ban on military drills with countries outside the region. 

In a statement sent to Reuters, China’s Foreign Ministry said negotiations on the code were confidential, and it could not comment on their content. 

The next round of working level talks is expected to take place in Myanmar in the first quarter of next year, the Southeast Asian diplomat said. 

In August, Chinese and ASEAN officials hailed the initial negotiating text as a milestone and a breakthrough when it was endorsed by the foreign ministers of ASEAN and China. 

It will be negotiated over the coming year by senior ASEAN and Chinese officials and has not yet been released publicly. 

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang last month called for the pact to be sealed by 2021, a timetable some envoys and analysts are skeptical can be reached. 

“There’s a lot of tough work ahead - that figure seems to have just been plucked from the air,” one senior Asian diplomat said. 

*DEAD LETTER? *
The code builds on an earlier declaration on the South China Sea signed between ASEAN and China in 2002.

That document did not prevent the vital international trade route emerging as a regional flashpoint amid China’s military rise and its extensive program of island building on disputed reefs since 2014. 

The United States and other regional powers including Japan and India are not part of the negotiations, but take a strong interest in the waterway that links Northeast Asia with the Middle East and Europe. 

Several countries, including Japan, India, Britain and Australia, have joined the United States in gradually increasing naval deployments through the South China Sea. They are often shadowed by Chinese naval ships. 

Carl Thayer, an expert on Vietnam’s military and diplomacy at Australia’s Defence Force Academy, said Hanoi was expected to prove a tough negotiator but would need support among other ASEAN members to hold a firm line against China. 

The Philippines successfully challenged Beijing’s South China Sea claims in an international arbitration case in 2016, but has reversed policy under President Rodrigo Duterte, who has avoided confronting China as he seeks to secure billions of dollars of loans and investments for his infrastructure program. 

The 19-page draft remains vague in key areas including its precise geographic scope, whether it will be legally binding and how disputes will be resolved.

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## Carlosa

Nilgiri said:


> Viva is a quality guy....and he adds to it by having 20+ chinese trolls here for breakfast whenever he pleases ...they honestly don't know how bad it looks optically for them (to take him on 1 vs 20 and come out worse) lol...it only adds credence to the assertions he makes (and of course the parallels in history like you mention).
> 
> 
> 
> Wow thats a really small company size to begin with and only 3 of them in a battalion huh. Happy new year my friend.



That's the traditional Russian/Soviet tank battalion, Vietnam follows that. 
Happy New Year my friend!!!

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> That's the traditional Russian/Soviet tank battalion, Vietnam follows that.
> Happy New Year my friend!!!


Hey Amigo Carlosa late Merry Christmas and Happy new year. Vietnam following big bro Russia is not a bad thing, I hope bro Putin sends some nice gifts this year though

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## Viet

https://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms...to-set-up-weapons-manufacturer.html#ui=mobile


Last update: 11:15 | 04/01/2019

_Vietnam has outlined a series of plans for strengthening the military in the 2018-2025 period with the establishment of an armament manufacturing and repair corporation, heard at a press conference held by the Ministry of Defense in Hanoi earlier this week. _





_A Kilo-class submarine of Vietnam's army._


The facility is part of the country’s efforts to modernize the weapons and the entire armed forces through 2025 and the years to come, the government said on its portal, giving no details.

In the army structure, the corporation will belong to the General Corporation of Defense Industry which has a workforce of 25,000 people.

Vietnam has several weapon manufacturing factories under the Ministry of Defense. The Southeast Asian country also signed different contracts to buy weapons abroad, including one worth US$2 billion to purchase a fleet of six Kilo class submarines from Russia.

In 2012, Russia’s President Vladimir Putin affirmed to tighten cooperation with Vietnam in study, manufacturing, and maintenance of military equipment and weaponry. In return, Vietnam affirmed to allow Russia to set up a vessel maintenance depot in Vietnam’s Cam Ranh military base.

In May 2016, US President Barack Obama announced the full removal of the embargo on sales of lethal weapons to Vietnam.

So far, Vietnam’s military spending remains nonpublished except for several deals inked with big partners like Russia.

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## Viet

Fri 1/4/2019, 11:24 (GMT+7)

*Vietnam restructures military into ‘focused and lean machine’*






Vietnam's defense ministry is set to merge agencies with similar functions to cut down the number of staff by 10 percent in 2021 compared to 2015. Photo by VnExpress/Vo Thanh


Under instructions from the Communist Party’s Central Military Commission, its 88 companies have been reorganized into just 17, reducing down the number of officers by 16,000.

"The ministry has also reduced the size of some corps and reorganized them into economic units in strategic defense and security areas, and they will not participate in purely economic tasks," Lieutenant General Do Can, deputy head of the ministry's general political department, said at a meeting on Wednesday.

The ministry is set to merge agencies with similar functions to cut down the number of staff by 10 percent in 2021 compared to 2015.

The ministry has also equitized, divested from, shut down, or transferred to the Ministry of Labor, Invalids and Social Affairs its 22 vocational schools, withdrawing the military from vocational training and employment.

Military academies are already following a roadmap to stop providing training to civilians by 2020.

"Some military schools are still training several times more civilians than military personnel," Can said, adding that the Ministry of Education and Training has agreed with the decision to end civilian training by 2020.

The ministry has also given the military's 25 hospitals financial autonomy, significantly reducing the amount of money spent on them from the government’s coffers.

It has merged the army's five newspapers into a single newspaper under the General Staff of the People's Army of Vietnam.

The military's restructuring is being carried out under a directive issued by the Politburo, the Communist Party's top decision-making body, to "build a focused and lean machine" designed for "effective work," and follows a similar restructuring by the Ministry of Public Security last August.

It also includes the dissolution or revamp of a number of units under the High Command of the Border Defense Force, reducing the number of staff by nearly 3,000, and the dissolution of 14 reserve military engineer brigades under the military's general companies.

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/v...ry-into-focused-and-lean-machine-3863446.html

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## Viet

*History*

40 years ago, January 7, 1979 with support by artillery, Vietnamese tank army stormed the last bastion at Cambodia capital of Phnom Penh.

















The last Cambodia army unit surrendered.

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## Viet

Images of the Cambodia military campaign

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Images of the Cambodia military campaign
> 
> View attachment 530949
> 
> 
> View attachment 530963
> 
> 
> View attachment 530959
> 
> 
> View attachment 530953
> 
> 
> View attachment 530951
> 
> 
> View attachment 530955
> 
> 
> View attachment 530958
> 
> 
> View attachment 530961
> 
> 
> View attachment 530965



Its how a nation is able to act and exist and have resolve and toughness to make and see a tomorrow....when they are at bare bones, all comforts stripped away and staring at the precipice of annihilation...that is how I judge their ultimate fiber. Vietnam has earned my undying respect on it...probably more than any other in recent times.

@Viva_Viet @Carlosa

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## Nike

Nilgiri said:


> Its how a nation is able to act and exist and have resolve and toughness to make and see a tomorrow....when they are at bare bones, all comforts stripped away and staring at the precipice of annihilation...that is how I judge their ultimate fiber. Vietnam has earned my undying respect on it...probably more than any other in recent times.
> 
> @Viva_Viet @Carlosa



They got guts and knacks for it

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## Viet

Thu 1/3/2019, 11:39 (GMT+7)

*US aircraft carrier in Vietnam among most memorable images*

*



*






A satellite image provided by DigitalGlobe to AP shows the USS Carl Vinson docked in the central city of Da Nang on March 5, 2018.

The U.S.-based Associated Press (AP) has included the picture among eight most striking news images captured by satellite imagery company DigitalGlobe in 2018.

The photo, titled "Back to Danang," which captures the USS Carl Vinson docking at Da Nang City on Vietnam’s central coast for a historic five-day visit last March, has made it into the list.

The visit marked a monumental milestone in the diplomatic relationship between the two former enemies. It was also the first time a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier docked in Vietnam, four decades after the end of the Vietnam War.

Professor Carlyle Thayer from the University of New South Wales at the Australian Defense Force Academy told _VnExpress International_ the USS Carl Vinson has sent a message that the U.S. will maintain its naval presence in the South China Sea. Vietnam calls the waterway the East Sea.

"Vietnam has been reassured by the Trump administration that it will enhance their comprehensive partnership," he said. "This visit signals that the United States intends to remain engaged in Southeast Asia."

"From space, the message was clear in the dozens of fighter jets on deck," the _AP _reported.

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## frequency

Viet said:


> Ok that makes sense. Should not be a problem to install the skirts before sending tanks into a battle.
> 
> At last Vietnam now has modern tanks. Even if we receive hundreds of T90s, I wonder how can we withstand a possible Chinese tank assault with ten of thousands of more modern tanks on the northern front?
> 
> Maybe some time in the future asking the Russians for a more powerful tank.
> 
> View attachment 530222
> 
> 
> The VPA has experience in fighting a numerous enemy though. The battle of Quang Tri 1972 when 7 tanks of north Vietnamese army clashed with 130 tanks of Republican Army.
> 
> View attachment 530224



Less is more. Harder to spot and harder to aim at 1 tank vs 10 tanks. You're more like to kill masses vs a single tank.

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## Viet

frequency said:


> Less is more. Harder to spot and harder to aim at 1 tank vs 10 tanks. You're more like to kill masses vs a single tank.


No, less is not more, sometimes it’s a certain death. A weak armor tank is an easy prey for enemy infantry. Take the war in Syria. When launching an attack on Al-Bab, a Turkish tank battalion lost 3 Leopards 2A4 in the first major battle.The IS fighters ambushed the tanks and hit from the side where the armor is thin. A good panzer is a good combination of firepower, mobility and armor. The German army phased out all Leopard 2A4. Well... the Germans sold them to Turkey and Indonesia.











@Marine Rouge

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## Nike

Viet said:


> No, less is not more, sometimes it’s a certain death. A weak armor tank is an easy prey for enemy infantry. Take the war in Syria. When launching an attack on Al-Bab, a Turkish tank battalion lost 3 Leopards 2A4 in the first major battle.The IS fighters ambushed the tanks and hit from the side where the armor is thin. A good panzer is a good combination of firepower, mobility and armor. The German army phased out all Leopard 2A4. Well... the Germans sold them to Turkey and Indonesia.
> 
> View attachment 531271
> 
> 
> View attachment 531269
> 
> 
> @Marine Rouge



Ours is ex Swiss leopard 2A4 though and upgraded to Leo 2 RI standard, not germany leopard 2A1 or 2 being upgraded to A4 standard in mid 90's and then sold to Turkey in 2000's, there is differences in this model.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Marine Rouge said:


> Ours is ex Swiss leopard 2A4 though and upgraded to Leo 2 RI standard, not germany leopard 2A1 or 2 being upgraded to A4 standard in mid 90's and then sold to Turkey in 2000's, there is differences in this model.


Also erdogan didn't want to use infantry supports during the earlier skirmish because he didn't want the bad PR of having a dead turkish soldiers in syria.

So its mostly do to politics & not technological or tactical what caused the lost of the leopards.


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## Nike

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also erdogan didn't want to use infantry supports during the earlier skirmish because he didn't want the bad PR of having a dead turkish soldiers in syria.
> 
> So its mostly do to politics & not technological or tactical what caused the lost of the leopards.



Though, we got plenty AT weapons and platform actually like Javelin ATGM, NLAW, MILAN, KONKURS. Meanwhile we still got attack helicopter like Apache armed with hellfire, Mi35 with Ataka.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also erdogan didn't want to use infantry supports during the earlier skirmish because he didn't want the bad PR of having a dead turkish soldiers in syria.
> 
> So its mostly do to politics & not technological or tactical what caused the lost of the leopards.


That is stupid by Turkish military command. Sending tanks to battle without air cover and infantry support.



Marine Rouge said:


> Ours is ex Swiss leopard 2A4 though and upgraded to Leo 2 RI standard, not germany leopard 2A1 or 2 being upgraded to A4 standard in mid 90's and then sold to Turkey in 2000's, there is differences in this model.


Ok however the Leo is designed during the Cold War and has a major weakness: ammunitions are stored at the side wall. Once the thin armor is pierced, the tank will explode like a firework. See pictures of explosion where Leopard is hit by anti tank. How about Indonesia tanks?Maybe you install additional reactive armor?

I don’t know how about T90, whether tank shells are stored at the rear? Because it is considered as a safer place.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> That is stupid by Turkish military command. Sending tanks to battle without air and infantry support.
> 
> 
> Ok however the Leo is designed during the Cold War and has a major weakness: ammunitions are stored at the side wall. Once the thin armor is pierced, the tank will explode like a firework.


1. Politics. 

2. As opposed to putting it in the center & exposing the crews somehow makes it any better?


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> 1. Politics.
> 
> 2. As opposed to putting it in the center & exposing the crews somehow makes it any better?
> View attachment 531295


I got this picture of T90MS: you can see ammunitions are stored at the rear section.


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## Svantana

42 units Indonesian Leopard 2a4 MBT




61 units Indonesian Leopard 2a4 RI MBT compare with Others


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## dBSPL

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also erdogan didn't want to use infantry supports during the earlier skirmish because he didn't want the bad PR of having a dead turkish soldiers in syria.
> 
> So its mostly do to politics & not technological or tactical what caused the lost of the leopards.



Sir, That's not exactly true.

Both operations began with the special units and commandos. But there are tens of kilometers of concrete tunnels on the field and thousands of ATGMs distributed uncontrollably. There is a 7-year war in Syria. Most of the world's most experienced ATGM teams are currently in Syria.

Both ISIS and the PKK tried guerrilla warfare against the Turkish army. But failed strategy is ( which was tried in ES op ) to keep the front lines of the Turkish army with low levels and limited military capacity FSA units . Already in the OB operation this scheme was abandoned. For this reason, the PKK could not hold any point in OB operation and take about 3000 losses in 2 months. Half of the power in the area has been destroyed.

The biggest casualty of the Turkish army in Syria was ISIS's Raid of AlBab-Akil. TAF Unit's sight fell to about 2 meters below, and they tried raid on dense fog with collaborators in the town. We lost 2 tanks there. Therefore, UAV's are now equipped with SAR systems. The physical conditions in the field is no longer an operative problem. In addition, special units equipments now includes tunnel detection systems and behind-the-wall radars.

During the ES and OB operations, over 100 asymmetric ATGM attacks were carried out against the armored elements of the TSK. Apart from electronic and hardkill / softkill systems, there are tactics and strategies developed by both the TAF and the Syrian regime forces against asymmetric terorist elements and theirs ATGM teams. I wouldn't explain them right here.

Also There is also the fact that the Syrian airspace is under Russian control and we have problems from time to time in the disputed areas with the regime. Here, we can say that risk planning is under the pressure of the time factor. In case of CAS problems, a number of systems and strategies have been developed with the experience gained in the field. In the operation to the east of the Euphrates, we will have the opportunity to see the size of this progress.

Anyway, the topic is very nice and I would follow up with interest.

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## Reashot Xigwin

dBSPL said:


> Sir, That's not exactly true.
> 
> Both operations began with the special units and commandos. But there are tens of kilometers of concrete tunnels on the field and thousands of ATGMs distributed uncontrollably. There is a 7-year war in Syria. Most of the world's most experienced ATGM teams are currently in Syria.
> 
> Both ISIS and the PKK tried guerrilla warfare against the Turkish army. But failed strategy is ( which was tried in ES op ) to keep the front lines of the Turkish army with low levels and limited military capacity FSA units . Already in the OB operation this scheme was abandoned. For this reason, the PKK could not hold any point in OB operation and take about 3000 losses in 2 months. Half of the power in the area has been destroyed.
> 
> The biggest casualty of the Turkish army in Syria was ISIS's Raid of AlBab-Akil. TAF Unit's sight fell to about 2 meters below, and they tried raid on dense fog with collaborators in the town. We lost 2 tanks there. Therefore, UAV's are now equipped with SAR systems. The physical conditions in the field is no longer an operative problem. In addition, special units equipments now includes tunnel detection systems and behind-the-wall radars.
> 
> During the ES and OB operations, over 100 asymmetric ATGM attacks were carried out against the armored elements of the TSK. Apart from electronic and hardkill / softkill systems, there are tactics and strategies developed by both the TAF and the Syrian regime forces against asymmetric terorist elements and theirs ATGM teams. I wouldn't explain them right here.
> 
> Also There is also the fact that the Syrian airspace is under Russian control and we have problems from time to time in the disputed areas with the regime. Here, we can say that risk planning is under the pressure of the time factor. In case of CAS problems, a number of systems and strategies have been developed with the experience gained in the field. In the operation to the east of the Euphrates, we will have the opportunity to see the size of this progress.
> 
> Anyway, the topic is very nice and I would follow up with interest.


I'm not talking about the overall operation but just on the certain aspect where couple of leopards got lost in the process. I'm not discounting the turkish military to be clear here.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> I got this picture of T90MS: you can see ammunitions are stored at the rear section.
> 
> 
> View attachment 531302


Not showing the whole blueprint I see what you did there[emoji6] 

Even so its still not much of an improvement because its not really an isolated compartment like what the western tanks have.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Not showing the whole blueprint I see what you did there[emoji6]
> 
> Even so its still not much of an improvement because its not really an isolated compartment like what the western tanks have.
> View attachment 531326
> View attachment 531327


Which western tanks? Look again. Each T90 carries 40 rounds with 22 auto loaded on a carousel (the picture you posted) and 18 stored in the isolated protective rear section (the previous picture I posted). Such design is clearly superior to Leopard 2 tank. Here with turret, front and side armor. So it is more difficult to bring ammunitions inside the tank hull to explode.







@jhungary


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Which western tanks? Look again. Each T90 carries 40 rounds with 22 auto loaded on a carousel (the picture you posted) and 18 stored in the isolated protective rear section (the previous picture I posted). Such design is clearly superior to Leopard 2 tank. Here with turret, front and side armor. So it is more difficult to bring ammunitions inside the tank hull to explode.
> 
> 
> View attachment 531344
> 
> 
> @jhungary



Not going to say autoloader tank is superior than gunner/loader tank, each have their own pros and cons, they are just different system, that's all.

However, you don't generally kinetic explode the round inside a tank, the most dangerous situation is from the round cooking off. Which mean the round is overheated in the environment. That could happen with or without hull penetration

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## Viet

jhungary said:


> Not going to say autoloader tank is superior than gunner/loader tank, each have their own pros and cons, they are just different system, that's all.
> 
> However, you don't generally kinetic explode the round inside a tank, the most dangerous situation is from the round cooking off. Which mean the round is overheated in the environment. That could happen with or without hull penetration


Ok but autoloading and isolated ammunitions compartments seem to be a good concept though. Germany for instance currently works on the Leopard 3 that copies many features of T90 tank and T14 Armata: light weight (50 tons), bigger cannon (130 mm), autoloading, unmanned turret, smaller tank personnel (2 or 3). There is plan to build 5,000 Leopard 3 for the cost of $100 billion. The question is whether or not a future Leopard 3 has a chance against Armata that is going to have a 152 mm cannon? I would say the Russians are far ahead in tank technology.

https://www.workzeitung.ch/2018/05/ruestungshysterie-5000-leopard-3-panzer-fuer-100-milliarden/

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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Ok but autoloading and isolated ammunitions compartments seem to be a good concept though. Germany for instance currently works on the Leopard 3 that copies many features of T90 tank and T14 Armata: light weight (50 tons), bigger cannon (130 mm), autoloading, unmanned turret, smaller tank personnel (2 or 3). There is plan to build 5,000 Leopard 3 for the cost of $100 billion. The question is whether or not a future Leopard 3 has a chance against Armata that is going to have a 152 mm cannon? I would say the Russians are far ahead in tank technology.
> 
> https://www.workzeitung.ch/2018/05/ruestungshysterie-5000-leopard-3-panzer-fuer-100-milliarden/
> 
> 
> View attachment 531465


Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/256437-armata-stuck-moscow-parade/amp/

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russias-armata-tank-may-never-be-threat-nato-21269

https://www.google.com/amp/s/taskandpurpose.com/russia-fancy-armata-tanks-broke/amp/

Even the chinese are mocking the armata:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...s-makers-criticized-russia-battle-tank-2015-6

Fun facts: the T-14 was never designed to be a tank in the 1st place. Object 148 was designed around a universal chassis in mind. It's kinda like the US M113 but bigger.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armata_Universal_Combat_Platform


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/256437-armata-stuck-moscow-parade/amp/
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-russias-armata-tank-may-never-be-threat-nato-21269
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/taskandpurpose.com/russia-fancy-armata-tanks-broke/amp/
> 
> Even the chinese are mocking the armata:
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...s-makers-criticized-russia-battle-tank-2015-6
> 
> Fun facts: the T-14 was never designed to be a tank in the 1st place. Object 148 was designed around a universal chassis in mind. It's kinda like the US M113 but bigger.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armata_Universal_Combat_Platform


Nonsense. Engine breakdown is not uncommon least in newest developed tanks. Armata tank seems superior than any western tanks from the US, Germany, France and UK. Germany newest Leopard 3 tank would come in 2030. Do you think the Leo won’t have any problem at all? F35 is mirred in problems. Everything takes time. Even the T90 Vietnam acquires now is still good enough.

Fyi no joke: during the height of the Cold War, the US intended to sacrifice Germany by nuking German soils, should Soviet tanks overran German defense lines annihilated allied armed forces and reached the Rhein river. A beautiful death. Should the world go down, why not in a Big Bang.

Without a quick deployment of US army, Western Europe is defenseless against Russia conventional military power. the NATO never gives up the principle of first use of nuclear weapons because they know the chance of winning in a conventional war is thin.

I bet, tomorrow should russian tanks reach the Rhein, a nuclear exchange would be triggered.



dBSPL said:


> Sir, That's not exactly true.
> 
> Both operations began with the special units and commandos. But there are tens of kilometers of concrete tunnels on the field and thousands of ATGMs distributed uncontrollably. There is a 7-year war in Syria. Most of the world's most experienced ATGM teams are currently in Syria.
> 
> Both ISIS and the PKK tried guerrilla warfare against the Turkish army. But failed strategy is ( which was tried in ES op ) to keep the front lines of the Turkish army with low levels and limited military capacity FSA units . Already in the OB operation this scheme was abandoned. For this reason, the PKK could not hold any point in OB operation and take about 3000 losses in 2 months. Half of the power in the area has been destroyed.
> 
> The biggest casualty of the Turkish army in Syria was ISIS's Raid of AlBab-Akil. TAF Unit's sight fell to about 2 meters below, and they tried raid on dense fog with collaborators in the town. We lost 2 tanks there. Therefore, UAV's are now equipped with SAR systems. The physical conditions in the field is no longer an operative problem. In addition, special units equipments now includes tunnel detection systems and behind-the-wall radars.
> 
> During the ES and OB operations, over 100 asymmetric ATGM attacks were carried out against the armored elements of the TSK. Apart from electronic and hardkill / softkill systems, there are tactics and strategies developed by both the TAF and the Syrian regime forces against asymmetric terorist elements and theirs ATGM teams. I wouldn't explain them right here.
> 
> Also There is also the fact that the Syrian airspace is under Russian control and we have problems from time to time in the disputed areas with the regime. Here, we can say that risk planning is under the pressure of the time factor. In case of CAS problems, a number of systems and strategies have been developed with the experience gained in the field. In the operation to the east of the Euphrates, we will have the opportunity to see the size of this progress.
> 
> Anyway, the topic is very nice and I would follow up with interest.


Turkey army is well armed and trained. However I wonder of how long Turkey can afford a war of attrition in Syria considering turkey economy is slowing down?


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## Viet

A major step toward mass production of military grade spider silk used by future protective body vests: US technology company Kraig Labs has delivered spider silk technology to Vietnam! superlight but as strong as steel.












https://www.innovationintextiles.com/kraig-labs-delivers-spider-silk-technology-to-vietnam/


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## frequency

Viet said:


> No, less is not more, sometimes it’s a certain death. A weak armor tank is an easy prey for enemy infantry. Take the war in Syria. When launching an attack on Al-Bab, a Turkish tank battalion lost 3 Leopards 2A4 in the first major battle.The IS fighters ambushed the tanks and hit from the side where the armor is thin. A good panzer is a good combination of firepower, mobility and armor. The German army phased out all Leopard 2A4. Well... the Germans sold them to Turkey and Indonesia.
> 
> View attachment 531271
> 
> 
> View attachment 531269
> 
> 
> @Marine Rouge



Sorry, I disagree. But I'm not talking about Tank armor. I'm talking about quantity of ppl. Of course, agility is better. Less is more depends on the strategy. This is why you have spies and ppl who are very specialized in warefare such as the Navy Seals. You could easily detect and target a thousand soldiers but not 100 soldiers who operate almost near invisible but of course you are not invincible. The point is to eliminate as many of your enemies as possible to with minimal losses. Again, it's the strategy and set up. What Vietnam needs is to make many Mother of all Bombs. Bombs are effective in killing masses and destroying Strongholds. Less is more.


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## jhungary

Viet said:


> Ok but autoloading and isolated ammunitions compartments seem to be a good concept though. Germany for instance currently works on the Leopard 3 that copies many features of T90 tank and T14 Armata: light weight (50 tons), bigger cannon (130 mm), autoloading, unmanned turret, smaller tank personnel (2 or 3). There is plan to build 5,000 Leopard 3 for the cost of $100 billion. The question is whether or not a future Leopard 3 has a chance against Armata that is going to have a 152 mm cannon? I would say the Russians are far ahead in tank technology.
> 
> https://www.workzeitung.ch/2018/05/ruestungshysterie-5000-leopard-3-panzer-fuer-100-milliarden/
> 
> 
> View attachment 531465



First of all, let me apologise for the late reply, I was out on business and have had 3 days without internet. Anyway.

As I said, there are pros and cons with both system, I am not going to say which one is better because if you are a trained manual tank crew, you don't like Autoloader system, and vice versa. 

Autoloader tank is the future because you cannot manually load a round if you want to use EM weapon or cartridge-less weapon, such as railgun, but as far as I can see, today autoloader is not mature enough to work as a standalone system. One major flaw for the autoloader is when it jam, it's very hard to clear it as the mechanism inside a already crowded tank would make you work like a wonder to unjam the vehicle, most of these would result to having the turret being taking off the chassis and unjam it this way. But for a loader tank, you clear jam by opening the breech, and if that didn't do the trick, push the charging stick inside the barrel to expel the casing or projectile. 

You also need to think of the down time, when you have to maintain your tank in the field and stand guard outside when you are not using them. IT would be a lot easier to maintain the tank with a 4 men crew over a 2 or 3 men crew, and with 4 men crew, you have a shorter time to pull guard duty, (6 hours interval instead of 8 hours if you have a 3 men crew, and 12 hours if you have a 2 men crew.)

So as I said, it really depends on the user.

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## Viet

frequency said:


> Sorry, I disagree. But I'm not talking about Tank armor. I'm talking about quantity of ppl. Of course, agility is better. Less is more depends on the strategy. This is why you have spies and ppl who are very specialized in warefare such as the Navy Seals. You could easily detect and target a thousand soldiers but not 100 soldiers who operate almost near invisible but of course you are not invincible. The point is to eliminate as many of your enemies as possible to with minimal losses. Again, it's the strategy and set up. What Vietnam needs is to make many Mother of all Bombs. Bombs are effective in killing masses and destroying Strongholds. Less is more.


Well I think it depends much on war theaters how Vietnam adopts what defense strategy. Assaulting a weaker enemy as Cambodia, Vietnam tank army can launch a full frontal onslaught while against a much strong opponent as China, Vietnam adopts a defensive posture. The PLA lost 520 tanks in the first 4 days when attacking Vietnam in the early hours of Spring offensive 1979. Because of difficult terrains Chinese tanks were queued in long attacking lines. in many cases the PLA infantry could not be fast enough as tanks stormed too fast ahead. Tanks were easy targets. Vietnam difficult terrain is Vietnam’s most formidable defense. That helps the border defence. They were trained to hold the positions at all cost though. Because once the PLA breaks thru the northern defense lines, the way to Hanoi would be free. The terrain is mostly flat. There were two major Vietnamese army groups around that time to protect the capital though.

posting some pictures of the attacking PLA. Chinese army mobilization was about 600,000 men with probably 500,000 men in reserves. No idea how many tanks were readied for the invasion, probably some thousands pieces.


























Beautiful peaceful rise image of China

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## Viet

Korea Times 
2019-01-13

*Donald Trump offers to meet Kim in Vietnam in mid-Feb. for 2nd summit: report*





U.S. President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un / Joint Press Corps


U.S. President Donald Trump has proposed holding the second summit talks with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un in mid-February and suggested Vietnam as the venue, a foreign report said Sunday.

The report comes amid mounting expectations that the two leaders will soon hold their next summit to resume the stalled denuclearization talks. They first met in Singapore in June last year.

North Korea is said to be reviewing the U.S. proposal and has yet to give a formal response, a news report by Japan's Yomiuri Shimbun said, citing officials familiar with the matter.

The Strait Times also reported earlier that Vietnam and Thailand are on the "shortlist" for the second Trump-Kim meeting and that both countries are willing to host the event, citing unidentified sources.

Both have diplomatic ties with Pyongyang and Washington, and have organized international events like APEC, the report said.

Pyongyang and Washington have been locked in a stalemate over how to carry out the agreements they reached in their first-ever summit, at which Kim promised to work toward complete denuclearization in exchange for security guarantees from the United States.

Progress has been slow ever since as the North wants sanctions relief, while the U.S. remains firm that sanctions will remain in place until the North completely gives up its nuclear weapons program.

Speculation has been rising as to where Trump and Kim will decide to meet. Singapore was in the international spotlight when the June summit took place.

Southeast Asian countries have been mentioned as strong possible candidates, including Vietnam, Indonesia and Mongolia.

In his New Year's Day speech, Kim warned that he could go a new way if the United States clings to pressure and sanctions on the North's regime. But he kept the door open for talks with the U.S., saying he is willing to meet Trump at anytime.

Trump earlier said that the U.S. and North Korea are in talks over where to hold their second summit and a decision on the venue will be announced in the "not-too-distant future." (Yonhap)


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## Viet

According to Russia media avia.pro, Vietnam is interested in acquiring 5th generation fighter aircraft SU-57. 2 squadrons a 24 pieces would cost $2 billion.

Not a small sum of money











The backbone of Vietnam tank armies consists of legacy of T54/T55 tanks. Little hope against modern enemy tanks. But good when attacking in ambush.

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## Aqsuperman

Recently, Laos has received loads of weapons from Russia and now, Vietnam takes its turn.

On 14/01/2019, Vietnam delivers a batch of Vietnam-Gali ACE 31 and 32 rifles to Laos Ministry Of Defense.

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## Viet

*Procurement: Herons Headed For Vietnam*
Archives

January 15, 2019: Vietnam has purchased $140 million worth of Israeli Heron 1 UAVs. Vietnam will use the Herons for “strategic reconnaissance” which probably includes patrolling coastal waters. That is something the Heron does a lot of for many foreign customers.

The Heron first flew in the 1990s and is not only similar to the American Predator but has been produced in larger quantities and sold to more foreign customers. Heron is the primary heavy UAV for the Israeli military, which makes sense as it was Israel, not the United States that pioneered UAVs of this type. It was the Israeli successes in UAV technology that motivated an American firm (General Atomics) to create the MQ-1 Predator.

The Heron 1, because it was so similar to the Predator has sold well to foreign customers who cannot obtain the MQ-1. In addition to being one of the primary UAVs for the Israeli armed forces security organizations from India, Turkey, Russia, France, Brazil, El Salvador, the United States, Canada, and Australia have either bought, leased, or licensed manufactured the Heron.

The original Heron 1 weighs about the same (1.2 tons) as the Predator and has greater endurance (40 hours). Max speed is 205 kilometers an hour and cruising speed is a bit less. Heron 1 has a slightly higher ceiling (10 kilometers/30,000 feet, versus 8 kilometers) than Predator and software which allows it to automatically take off, carry out a mission, and land. Not all American large UAVs can do this. Heron 1 does have a larger wingspan (16.5 meters/51 feet) than the Predator (13.2 meters/41 feet) and a payload of about 250 kg (550 pounds). The ground control equipment can control a Heron 1 up to 350 kilometers away but Heron can travel much farther using pre-programmed instructions and will automatically try to get back if there are any problems. While under pre-programmed flight Heron 1 cannot be jammed.

Heron 1 currently sells for about $10 million each although the Israelis are willing to be flexible on price. Herons are sold as a system (three Herons, a ground control station, maintenance equipment and training) that can cost $50 million (or more) per such system. Most Herons are used for reconnaissance and surveillance, including maritime patrol. Heron can be equipped with missiles but all those exported are unarmed and most used by the Israeli military are also unarmed. Heron does carry a wide array of sensors (day/night vidcams, radars, laser rangefinders and such) and often provides target information of warplanes and helicopter gunships.

Largely unnoticed is the fact that Vietnam is the third largest customer for Israeli military exports. While India gets about half of Israeli arms exports, Azerbaijan gets about 12 percent and Vietnam six percent. In the last decade, Israel has sold $1.5 billion worth of military weapons and military equipment to Vietnam. Israel and Vietnam established diplomatic relations in 1993 and a decade later Israel was supplying Vietnam with a growing number of high-tech exports, including a growing number of military items. It began with Israel providing training, advisory and equipment. After that Vietnam became a customer for a growing number of Israeli weapons and military equipment, including Derby air-to-air missiles, Spyder air defense systems, a factory for producing ACE assault rifles and air defense radars.

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc/20190115.aspx#foo

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## Viet

*Vietnam’s coast observation satellite goes into orbit from Japan*

By *Staff reporters*

Fri 1/18/2019, 11:46 (GMT+7)

*Vietnamese satellite MicroDragon was successfully launched from the Uchinoura Space Center in Kagoshima Prefecture in southern Japan Friday morning.*




Epsilon 4 rocket brings Vietnamese-made satellite MicroDragon into space as seen in a still image from a video by Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA).

The satellite, built by a team of Vietnamese engineers with help from Japanese experts and launched aboard Japan’s Epsilon 4 launcher, will be used to observe Vietnam’s coast line.

MicroDragon measures 50x50x50 centimeters (19.6 inches) and weighs around 50 kilograms (110 pounds).

It will help evaluate water quality, locate fisheries resources and monitor changes to serve aquaculture.

It will also detect cloud coverage and aerosols, collect ground-based sensor signals and transmit them to stations on Earth.

In 2013 the Vietnam National Space Center (VNSC) sent 36 engineers to five top universities in Japan for master’s programs in satellite technology as part of a joint Vietnam-Japan project to prevent natural disasters and climate change using satellites.

Using official development assistance from Japan and counter capital from the Vietnamese government, the engineers worked with Japanese experts to build MicroDragon in Japan.

The satellite marks a milestone for Vietnam in building satellites. The VNSC told the media earlier that the satellite is expected to provide imagery of a specific area within six to 12 hours compared with at least two days when is it obtained from a commercial satellite imagery provider.

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## Aqsuperman

VPA T-90S in warehouse and cleaning ditch (To wash away dirt built-up in the track after a march)

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## Viet

The T90 tanks that were delivered have aircon. However tanks are not equipped with Schtora, headlamps of the distance active protection system. Instead tanks rely on additional active protection blocs.

https://de.sputniknews.com/panorama/20190103323481588-t90s-panzer-vietnam-lieferung/








Russia tank maker says T90 can destroy every kinds of enemy tank.

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## cochine

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Viet

*Vietnam welcomes 2nd US-DPRK summit*
Wednesday, 2019-02-06 16:08:15



Spokesperson of the Foreign Ministry Le Thi Thu Hang 



NDO - Vietnam welcomes the second US-Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) summit and strongly supports dialogues to maintain peace, security and stability on the Korean Peninsula.

Spokesperson of the Foreign Ministry Le Thi Thu Hang made the statement on February 6 in reply to reporters’ questions on Vietnam’s comment on US President Donald Trump’s remark in his latest State of the Union address on the upcoming summit, planned for February 27 and 28 in Vietnam.

Vietnam stands ready to actively contribute to and cooperate with relevant sides to ensure the success for the second US-DPRK summit, thus helping achieve the above-mentioned goal, the spokesperson concluded.


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## TenLua

Vietnamese people are pretty dumb in general. Cambodia created their own engine.


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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Vietnamese people are pretty dumb in general. Cambodia created their own engine.


It’s Tet time, pls don’t talk too much of garbage here!


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## TenLua

Viet said:


> It’s Tet time, pls don’t talk too much of garbage here!


Ok


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## Viet

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2019/02/11/air-force-ospreys-spotted-in-vietnam-for-first-time/
At least four Ospreys with the 353rd SOG landed in Vietnam for refueling Feb. 5

nice birds











landing in Danang





Vietnam appears to coordinate the summit with the Chinese. Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh, front, arrives at the Beijing Capital International Airport on Tuesday en route to Pyongyang, two weeks before a planned second U.S.-North Korea summit in Hanoi. [YONHAP]






Arrived in Pyongyang (North Korea)





Vietnamese delegation en route to Kim Jong Un


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## Aqsuperman

The second shipment of T-90 just reached our shore

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## Viet

That’s beautiful. Vietnamese tank armies should have 1,000 modern tanks in addition to the existing 1,500 legacy tanks. But playing safe, Vietnam should revive the military alliance with Russia. Nobody knows when our northern neighbor with more than 10,000 heavy tanks will run amok, accusing us, we bully their blood brother Cambodia.

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## Nilgiri

Aqsuperman said:


> The second shipment of T-90 just reached our shore



Good job Vietnam. Keep bulking up....keep strengthening!

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## Viet

*Take a step inside Kim Jong Un's Hanoi hotel*

By Karla Cripps, CNN







After a draining two-and-a-half day train journey across China, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un checked in to the Melia Hotel in Hanoi Tuesday.

There had been wide speculation about where Kim would stay, given his security requirements.

The 21-story property, with 306 rooms and suites, is located in the historic heart of Hanoi and is just walking distance from the presumed summit sites -- Government Guest House and the Sofitel Legend Metropole.

Even better, it's less than one mile away from the North Korea Embassy.





Inside the Melia's spacious Presidential Suite at the top of the hotel.Courtesy Melia




*Here's what Trump is eating for lunch in Hanoi*

From CNN's James Griffiths





An example of cha ca, a traditional Vietnamese dish served to President Trump during a working lunch in Hanoi.


President Trump and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen are currently sharing a working lunch in the country's Presidential Palace in Hanoi.

Here's what they're eating:

First course: Fresh shredded green mango salad with scallops, mint leaves and cashew nuts served in a sweet vinaigrette dressing.

Second course: Deep fried Hanoi-style spring rolls with shrimp, pork, vermicelli and vegetables served with a side of sweet and sour fish sauce and red chillies.

Third course: King crab meat and spinach in a light seafood-based broth.

Fourth course: Grilled cod fish “cha ca”; roasted Wagyu beef medallions with foie gras and a semi-sweet fermented black rice sauce; sautéed “su su” vegetables with garlic (crispy green chayote stems and leaves); steamed sticky glutinous rice with shrimp wrapped in a lotus leaf.

Dessert: A traditional Vietnamese dessert consisting of lotus seeds, longans, and white wood-ear mushrooms served warm and in a light sugary syrup.


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## Viet

Most important visit of the year: Donald Trump pays a visit to the Party Chief and invites him to the White House. Vietnamese enterprises signed contracts worth $21 billion with US technology companies. The US government urges Vietnam to buy US weapons.











https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...exports-in-meeting-with-vietnam-idUSKCN1QG1HU

“We make the best military equipment in the world by far, whether it’s jet fighters or missiles or rockets or anything you want to name, we make, we’re acknowledged to have made, we make the best,”.

- Donald Trump -

A US security guarantee is much better than any US made weapon.


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## Viet

"I had gone through a journey of more than 3,000 kilometers to Vietnam and thank the country for a warm and enthusiastic welcome. We are very happy. Thank Vietnam very much".

- Kim Jong-un -

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## Viet

The summit appears to hit a dead end. Kim is said wanting to stay a bit longer. He will tour Vietnam.


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## striver44

*Indonesia slams Vietnam for disrupting arrests*

Arya Dipa and Agnes Anya
The Jakarta Post






Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Minister Susi Pudjiastuti lambasted the Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance (VFRS) agency for allegedly disrupting the Indonesian Navy’s efforts to seize four Vietnam-flagged vessels for illegally fishing in Indonesian waters.

“We request that Vietnam’s government explain about and apologize for the incident,” said Susi on Monday in Bandung, West Java, adding that she would communicate with Foreign Minister Retno LP Marsudi about issuing a formal protest against Vietnam over the incident.

The incident took place on Sunday morning when two VFRS patrol vessels — Kiem Ngu 214214 and Kiem Ngu 214263 — allegedly “prompted dangerous maneuvers” to intercept the arrest of the four vessels for fishing illegally in the northern part of Natuna waters in Riau Islands, authorities said.

“The actions could have caused collisions so we warned them more firmly,” said Cdre. Irvansyah, the commander of the Indonesian Navy’s 1st Fleet Sea Battle Group.

*The captain of KRI Tom-357 had to shoot a 76-millimeter cannon to drive the two VFRS patrol boats off,* he added.
The Navy eventually managed to seize the four Vietnam-flagged fishing boats safely and put them under their custody.

The four were identified as BV 525 TS; BV 9487 TS; BV 4923 TS; and BVS 525 TS — the first three of which were caught while carrying a total of four cooling boxes full of fish.

Susi said it was not the first such incident in the past few weeks.

Last week, two VFRS boats allegedly tried to stop KP Hiu Macan 01, a vessel owned by the Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Ministry’s directorate general of marine resources and fisheries supervision, from arresting four Vietnamese fishing vessels also in North Natuna waters.

The Hiu Macan 01’s captain, Samson, said he decided to release the Vietnamese ships due to safety concerns, citing an incident last year when a Vietnamese coast guard vessel allegedly rammed into a ministry patrol boat — which at the time of the incident was trying to seize a suspected illegal fishing boat.

The fisheries ministry recorded that vessels from Vietnam were among the most seized fishing boats in the ongoing crackdown on illegal fishing. Since October 2014, the ministry has seized or sunk 276 Vietnam-flagged fishing boats for poaching Indonesian waters.

The Foreign Ministry said it regretted the recurrent “disruptions against Indonesia’s law enforcement measures by Vietnamese vessels”.

“The ministry has coordinated with related ministries and institutions, including the Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Ministry, to overcome the issue with Vietnam,” ministry spokesperson Arrmanatha Nasir told The Jakarta Post on Tuesday.

However, he did not comment on whether or not his office would send a formal protest to Vietnam.

Naval skirmishes commonly occur in the waters off Natuna Islands regency, especially with Vietnam, as Jakarta and Hanoi remain locked in a dispute over their overlapping exclusive economic zones (EEZs) in the area.

In 2017, tensions flared following a maritime stand-off involving a Vietnamese coast guard vessel that had intercepted an Indonesian fisheries ministry vessel during its attempt to arrest five Vietnamese fishing boats.

Later that year, President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo hosted talks in Jakarta with Nguyen Phu Trong, the general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, to mend ties that had been stretched due to such incidents.

Jokowi then visited Vietnam in 2018, which resulted in a bilateral commitment to conclude negotiations on maritime boundaries and to combat illegal fishing. However, skirmishes in the area continue to date.

Coordinating Maritime Affairs Minister Luhut Pandjaitan recently announced a plan to populate the Natuna Islands with fishermen from other regions such as Java in an effort to bolster Indonesia’s presence in the area.
The Natuna Sea is geographically closer to Vietnam and Malaysia, and borders the disputed South China Sea. (tjs)

Lambasting China for Incursion,while at the same time doing the same thing ..


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## Nike

striver44 said:


> *Indonesia slams Vietnam for disrupting arrests*
> 
> Arya Dipa and Agnes Anya
> The Jakarta Post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Minister Susi Pudjiastuti lambasted the Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance (VFRS) agency for allegedly disrupting the Indonesian Navy’s efforts to seize four Vietnam-flagged vessels for illegally fishing in Indonesian waters.
> 
> “We request that Vietnam’s government explain about and apologize for the incident,” said Susi on Monday in Bandung, West Java, adding that she would communicate with Foreign Minister Retno LP Marsudi about issuing a formal protest against Vietnam over the incident.
> 
> The incident took place on Sunday morning when two VFRS patrol vessels — Kiem Ngu 214214 and Kiem Ngu 214263 — allegedly “prompted dangerous maneuvers” to intercept the arrest of the four vessels for fishing illegally in the northern part of Natuna waters in Riau Islands, authorities said.
> 
> “The actions could have caused collisions so we warned them more firmly,” said Cdre. Irvansyah, the commander of the Indonesian Navy’s 1st Fleet Sea Battle Group.
> 
> *The captain of KRI Tom-357 had to shoot a 76-millimeter cannon to drive the two VFRS patrol boats off,* he added.
> The Navy eventually managed to seize the four Vietnam-flagged fishing boats safely and put them under their custody.
> 
> The four were identified as BV 525 TS; BV 9487 TS; BV 4923 TS; and BVS 525 TS — the first three of which were caught while carrying a total of four cooling boxes full of fish.
> 
> Susi said it was not the first such incident in the past few weeks.
> 
> Last week, two VFRS boats allegedly tried to stop KP Hiu Macan 01, a vessel owned by the Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Ministry’s directorate general of marine resources and fisheries supervision, from arresting four Vietnamese fishing vessels also in North Natuna waters.
> 
> The Hiu Macan 01’s captain, Samson, said he decided to release the Vietnamese ships due to safety concerns, citing an incident last year when a Vietnamese coast guard vessel allegedly rammed into a ministry patrol boat — which at the time of the incident was trying to seize a suspected illegal fishing boat.
> 
> The fisheries ministry recorded that vessels from Vietnam were among the most seized fishing boats in the ongoing crackdown on illegal fishing. Since October 2014, the ministry has seized or sunk 276 Vietnam-flagged fishing boats for poaching Indonesian waters.
> 
> The Foreign Ministry said it regretted the recurrent “disruptions against Indonesia’s law enforcement measures by Vietnamese vessels”.
> 
> “The ministry has coordinated with related ministries and institutions, including the Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Ministry, to overcome the issue with Vietnam,” ministry spokesperson Arrmanatha Nasir told The Jakarta Post on Tuesday.
> 
> However, he did not comment on whether or not his office would send a formal protest to Vietnam.
> 
> Naval skirmishes commonly occur in the waters off Natuna Islands regency, especially with Vietnam, as Jakarta and Hanoi remain locked in a dispute over their overlapping exclusive economic zones (EEZs) in the area.
> 
> In 2017, tensions flared following a maritime stand-off involving a Vietnamese coast guard vessel that had intercepted an Indonesian fisheries ministry vessel during its attempt to arrest five Vietnamese fishing boats.
> 
> Later that year, President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo hosted talks in Jakarta with Nguyen Phu Trong, the general secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, to mend ties that had been stretched due to such incidents.
> 
> Jokowi then visited Vietnam in 2018, which resulted in a bilateral commitment to conclude negotiations on maritime boundaries and to combat illegal fishing. However, skirmishes in the area continue to date.
> 
> Coordinating Maritime Affairs Minister Luhut Pandjaitan recently announced a plan to populate the Natuna Islands with fishermen from other regions such as Java in an effort to bolster Indonesia’s presence in the area.
> The Natuna Sea is geographically closer to Vietnam and Malaysia, and borders the disputed South China Sea. (tjs)
> 
> Lambasting China for Incursion,while at the same time doing the same thing ..



Setali tiga uang, they are thieves

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## Bennedict

Marine Rouge said:


> Setali tiga uang, they are thieves


Indonesia can always back Vietnam on diplomatic stage about SCS issue, but instead they choose to make their potential ally pissed off, and this is not their first time doing this

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## warzone

Marine Rouge said:


> Setali tiga uang, they are thieves


I'm agree with you, those rogue fishermen are thugs but they are few and miserable thieves. But one day when China will take by force/military control of all South China sea and forbid any fishermen boats nearby (except Chinese fishermen boats), then everyone will know who will be the biggest thug and then Indonesia will miss those few idiots Vietnameses rogues fishermen back then (today).


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## Viet

Bennedict said:


> Indonesia can always back Vietnam on diplomatic stage about SCS issue, but instead they choose to make their potential ally pissed off, and this is not their first time doing this


Backing Vietnam? Where and when? That isn’t funny at all. Using weapons in dispute waters overlapping Eez, even the Jakarta Post article stating the region around Natura waters is geographically closer to Vietnam and Malaysia than Indonesia.


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## nufix

Viet said:


> Backing Vietnam? Where and when? That isn’t funny at all. Using weapons in dispute waters overlapping Eez, even the Jakarta Post article stating the region around Natura waters is geographically closer to Vietnam and Malaysia than Indonesia.



Closer to Vietnam doesnt mean it belongs to Vietnam, does it? They violated the boundary and they were arrested, period. No more discussion needed.


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## Viet

nufix said:


> Closer to Vietnam doesnt mean it belongs to Vietnam, does it? They violated the boundary and they were arrested, period. No more discussion needed.


No more discussion? No more talks?
Why your president Widodo made this statement when visiting Vietnam last year?

“We have agreed that the negotiation on the EEZ between the two countries could be enhanced, and I hope that this negotiation could be concluded soon”.

- Widodo -

He made jokes?

Or he is just a clown or worse, he is a liar?

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-indonesia-eye-early-eez-delimitation-3807656.html


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## Nike

Viet said:


> No more discussion? No more talks?
> Why your president Widodo made this statement when visiting Vietnam last year?
> 
> “We have agreed that the negotiation on the EEZ between the two countries could be enhanced, and I hope that this negotiation could be concluded soon”.
> 
> - Widodo -
> 
> He made jokes?
> 
> Or he is just a clown or worse, he is a liar?
> 
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-indonesia-eye-early-eez-delimitation-3807656.html



President talking before your clown starting to made ruckus, and with this just expect more Vietcong ships goes to the bottom of sea and your man become fish food along with them. We can kill millions commies in the past, not needed to Reminding our people resolve to add more Vietcong commies in the list in future when we met them at open seas


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## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> President talking before your clown starting to made ruckus, and with this just expect more Vietcong ships goes to the bottom of sea and your man become fish food along with them. We can kill millions commies in the past, not needed to Reminding our people resolve to add more Vietcong commies in the list in future when we met them at open seas


So you are telling me your president is a liar. Good.

Threatening Vietnam is rediculous. Indonesia army, airforce and navy are too weak to pose any challenge. Even all ASEAN armies combined can’t threaten us. Too weak. The best thing you can do is running amok against Chinese ethnics. Only few Viet people live in Indonesia. If any.

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## fadine

Demonstrating strength in the region has not been clearly defined, the clash is inevitable.

Look at Indonesian naval vessels, its do not dare to fire. With Indonesian naval, who are savage, ready to set explosives, destroying boats of fishermen, this does not show peace love, it is still in an uninhabited region.


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## TenLua

All ghe people I have met in real life from Indonesia are chill as ****. We smoke weed and laugh about shit. Those on here are aggressive. 

Don’t make me bitch slap yall.

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## warzone

TenLua said:


> All ghe people I have met in real life from Indonesia are chill as ****. We smoke weed and laugh about shit. Those on here are aggressive.
> 
> Don’t make me bitch slap yall.


I was trying to be nice, guess I was wrong.... Don't mess with the Indonesian army, they invaded the East Timor in the 90s and destroyed that island powerful army. But ran before the Aussies get involved. Indonesia also is the most easy defendable country in the world with thousands and thousands of islands.



Marine Rouge said:


> President talking before your clown starting to made ruckus, and with this just expect more Vietcong ships goes to the bottom of sea and your man become fish food along with them. We can kill millions commies in the past, not needed to Reminding our people resolve to add more Vietcong commies in the list in future when we met them at open seas


You good fighting when you outnumber people by 10 against 1, East Timor, Christian and chinese massacres in the 90s, Papua conflict, Aceh conflict are a few examples.....Please remind me how we call people that fight in large number against a few...


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## nufix

Why do you always talk out of context? I mean here, in this forum. Let the people who really have the say (like our pres and yours) to talk about it. You are just a clown, trying to entertain yourself with stupid discussions on the internet. Look for a girlfriend you homo.



Viet said:


> No more discussion? No more talks?
> Why your president Widodo made this statement when visiting Vietnam last year?
> 
> “We have agreed that the negotiation on the EEZ between the two countries could be enhanced, and I hope that this negotiation could be concluded soon”.
> 
> - Widodo -
> 
> He made jokes?
> 
> Or he is just a clown or worse, he is a liar?
> 
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/vietnam-indonesia-eye-early-eez-delimitation-3807656.html


----------



## warzone

nufix said:


> Why do you always talk out of context? I mean here, in this forum. Let the people who really have the say (like our pres and yours) to talk about it. You are just a clown, trying to entertain yourself with stupid discussions on the internet. Look for a girlfriend you homo.


No need to insult people here. We start with a political subject , so don't insulting people here because of their point of view. One of you patriot talk about killing people and blabla ...which is just bad, it just open the pandora door


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## nufix

warzone said:


> No need to insult people here. We start with a political subject , so don't insulting people here because of their point of view. One of you patriot talk about killing people and blabla ...which is just bad, it just open the pandora door



Who’s the first to call our president clown and a liar? Typical viets, fail to see themselves in the mirror, just like when they call Chinese thieves when they are also thieving. The evidence? 200+ boats destroyed by Indo? You want to talk about that? How about refrain yourself from going to the disputes EEZ before the matter is settled between the two countries?


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## warzone

nufix said:


> Who’s the first to call our president clown and a liar? Typical viets, fail to see themselves in the mirror, just like when they call Chinese thieves when they are also thieving. The evidence? 200+ boats destroyed by Indo? You want to talk about that? How about refrain yourself from going to the disputes EEZ before the matter is settled between the two countries?


Chill man, your president and any presidents in this world are not God.... So criticizing them doesn't mean much today, don't take it personal. My previous post was about those few idiots rogue Vnese thieves of today but the biggest one will come one day when they will control the whole SCS


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## striver44

Viet said:


> So you are telling me your president is a liar. Good.
> 
> Threatening Vietnam is rediculous. Indonesia army, airforce and navy are too weak to pose any challenge. Even all ASEAN armies combined can’t threaten us. Too weak. The best thing you can do is running amok against Chinese ethnics. Only few Viet people live in Indonesia. If any.


Owwwh thretening vietnam is ridiculous....we are not thretening. We are merely taking your fishing boats and use it as a source of entertainment by blowing it one by one while we let your puny coast guard watch lol.

This,oh this is beautiful...from your asean big bro viets cheers







Thank you. See you next time



warzone said:


> I was trying to be nice, guess I was wrong.... Don't mess with the Indonesian army, they invaded the East Timor in the 90s and destroyed that island powerful army. But ran before the Aussies get involved. Indonesia also is the most easy defendable country in the world with thousands and thousands of islands.
> 
> 
> You good fighting when you outnumber people by 10 against 1, East Timor, Christian and chinese massacres in the 90s, Papua conflict, Aceh conflict are a few examples.....Please remind me how we call people that fight in large number against a few...


Your are good only getting massacred by china in some shallow reef in south china sea ....ooops


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## Aqsuperman

The "incident" between Vietnam and Indonesia a couple of days ago was an unfortunate one and due to overlapping claims, it's indeed impossible to avoid such confrontations in some cases. However, shooting live ammunition against the law enforcement of another country is an EXTREMELY HOSTILE behavior no matter what. One minor slip of feet and there would be casualties, what happens then?

Furthermore, some Indonesians flocked into the Vietnam forum acting as if they own the freaking sea and shoo fisherman from other countries away without solving the claim disputes first ? Guess who is also acting like that in the East Sea nowadays? CHINESE. 



striver44 said:


> Owwwh thretening vietnam is ridiculous....we are not thretening. We are merely taking your fishing boats and use it as a source of entertainment by blowing it one by one while we let your puny coast guard watch lol.
> 
> This,oh this is beautiful...from your asean big bro viets cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. See you next time



Sure, we are going to see each other again 

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/i...rted-skirmish-in-disputed-waters-3589198.html

" Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry, denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard in a bid to free its fishermen. He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard and could leave Vietnam as soon as the Indonesian government arranged transport"

Vietnam napped Indonesian officers before, Vietnam would nap some more in the future. But feel free to shoot our wooden fishing boats that worth pretty much nothing. We take pleasure in whipping thieves and their protector in a MANLY way. But if blowing up empty fishing boats is what grinds your gears then by all means, help youself



striver44 said:


> Your are good only getting massacred by china in some shallow reef in south china sea ....ooops



Sure, Vietnam People Armed Forces sucks by Indonesian standards. But hey, at the very least, Vietnam is proud to be a country without active terrorist/insurrection in ASEAN. Let's see how Indonesian and their mighty military is doing...

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/indonesian-troops-hunt-suspects-after-papua-mass-killing

"Indonesian soldiers are hunting for rebels suspected of killing as many as 24 construction workers in the restive Papua province, as an eyewitness account supplied by the military described a grisly mass execution"







Nah, Indonesian military could not do shit. Indonesian got killed by REBELS every day the only thing that keep the average Indonesian feeling proud their military is the fact that they manage to blow some fishing boats... OOOPS.

But I guess that is actually quite normal in Indonesia where police torture suspects with snakes and shits like that  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-after-terrorising-suspected-thief-with-snake

"Indonesian police have acknowledged officers terrorised a Papuan man with a snake after a video of the incident circulated online showing the man screaming in fear while his interrogator laughed"

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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> The "incident" between Vietnam and Indonesia a couple of days ago was an unfortunate one and due to overlapping claims, it's indeed impossible to avoid such confrontations in some cases. However, shooting live ammunition against the law enforcement of another country is an EXTREMELY HOSTILE behavior no matter what. One minor slip of feet and there would be casualties, what happens then?
> 
> Furthermore, some Indonesians flocked into the Vietnam forum acting as if they own the freaking sea and shoo fisherman from other countries away without solving the claim disputes first ? Guess who is also acting like that in the East Sea nowadays? CHINESE.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, we are going to see each other again
> 
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/i...rted-skirmish-in-disputed-waters-3589198.html
> 
> " Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry, denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard in a bid to free its fishermen. He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard and could leave Vietnam as soon as the Indonesian government arranged transport"
> 
> Vietnam napped Indonesian officers before, Vietnam would nap some more in the future. But feel free to shoot our wooden fishing boats that worth pretty much nothing. We take pleasure in whipping thieves and their protector in a MANLY way. But if blowing up empty fishing boats is what grinds your gears then by all means, help youself




Dude, that is why we dont board Viet ships anymore, we shoot at them. And no, the latest ship we shot at was a VN CG ship, not a wooden ship. So you see? It is Vietnam that escalated the conflict from just a board and search patrol. Like I have always said, VN always forgot to see themselves on the mirror. Want me to buy you one? 

Now the question is, what are you going to do about it? Nothing? Alright, now go scram.


----------



## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> The "incident" between Vietnam and Indonesia a couple of days ago was an unfortunate one and due to overlapping claims, it's indeed impossible to avoid such confrontations in some cases. However, shooting live ammunition against the law enforcement of another country is an EXTREMELY HOSTILE behavior no matter what. One minor slip of feet and there would be casualties, what happens then?
> 
> Furthermore, some Indonesians flocked into the Vietnam forum acting as if they own the freaking sea and shoo fisherman from other countries away without solving the claim disputes first ? Guess who is also acting like that in the East Sea nowadays? CHINESE.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, we are going to see each other again
> 
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/i...rted-skirmish-in-disputed-waters-3589198.html
> 
> " Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry, denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard in a bid to free its fishermen. He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard and could leave Vietnam as soon as the Indonesian government arranged transport"
> 
> Vietnam napped Indonesian officers before, Vietnam would nap some more in the future. But feel free to shoot our wooden fishing boats that worth pretty much nothing. We take pleasure in whipping thieves and their protector in a MANLY way. But if blowing up empty fishing boats is what grinds your gears then by all means, help youself
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, Vietnam People Armed Forces sucks by Indonesian standards. But hey, at the very least, Vietnam is proud to be a country without active terrorist/insurrection in ASEAN. Let's see how Indonesian and their mighty military is doing...
> 
> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/indonesian-troops-hunt-suspects-after-papua-mass-killing
> 
> "Indonesian soldiers are hunting for rebels suspected of killing as many as 24 construction workers in the restive Papua province, as an eyewitness account supplied by the military described a grisly mass execution"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, Indonesian military could not do shit. Indonesian got killed by REBELS every day the only thing that keep the average Indonesian feeling proud their military is the fact that they manage to blow some fishing boats... OOOPS.
> 
> But I guess that is actually quite normal in Indonesia where police torture suspects with snakes and shits like that  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-after-terrorising-suspected-thief-with-snake
> 
> "Indonesian police have acknowledged officers terrorised a Papuan man with a snake after a video of the incident circulated online showing the man screaming in fear while his interrogator laughed"


Lol casualties in war is a must. Speaking of getting killed. what about the 840.000+ casualties in vietnam war? Im sure they are having a great time getting killed or firebombed.LOL. im sure that is something to be proud of 

I admit that indonesian forces uses inhumane way in many of the conflict area, but what about you? Arent your government busy building "reeducation" camp back then ?? You must be the most moral army in the world Hahahahaha


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## Nike

striver44 said:


> Lol casualties in war is a must. Speaking of getting killed. what about the 840.000+ casualties in vietnam war? Im sure they are having a great time getting killed or firebombed.LOL. im sure that is something to be proud of
> 
> I admit that indonesian forces uses inhumane way in many of the conflict area, but what about you? Arent your government busy building "reeducation" camp back then ?? You must be the most moral army in the world Hahahahaha



Commies talk about morality, its joke


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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Dude, that is why we dont board Viet ships anymore, we shoot at them. And no, the latest ship we shot at was a VN CG ship, not a wooden ship. So you see? It is Vietnam that escalated the conflict from just a board and search patrol. Like I have always said, VN always forgot to see themselves on the mirror. Want me to buy you one?
> 
> Now the question is, what are you going to do about it? Nothing? Alright, now go scram.



No one shoots the law enforcement of another country and claims: "I'm not at fault". Have ships from VN Coast Guard ever opened fire with live ammunition on Indonesian vessels? No? Then why the fck that it was us that escalate the conflict? You are drunk with national pride or what?

But I guess since you are born with an unstable mind, you have a hard time comprehending SOCIAL NORMS. Want to shoot empty Vietnam fishing boats? Help yourself. But the next time we napped an unlucky fisheries officer from Indonesia, he might not come back in one piece.



striver44 said:


> Lol casualties in war is a must. Speaking of getting killed. what about the 840.000+ casualties in vietnam war? Im sure they are having a great time getting killed or firebombed.LOL. im sure that is something to be proud of
> 
> I admit that indonesian forces uses inhumane way in many of the conflict area, but what about you? Arent your government busy building "reeducation" camp back then ?? You must be the most moral army in the world Hahahahaha





Marine Rouge said:


> Commies talk about morality, its joke



Hey it was you Indonesian that come up with all the guts and "military will" first. I simply pointed out some facts that the Indonesian military, with all that stuff they bought from world superpowers, could not handle a couple of rebel groups but they are so eager to shoot fishing boats. Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago and after that, we have to fought in Cambodia but in the end, peace reign over Vietnam. Indonesian nowadays? 24 Indonesian workers got their throat sliced and tossed into a mass grave. Indonesian polices tortured prisoners using snake.

So you Indonesian called your country the big bro of Asian while letting rebels run around killing civilian? Moreover, your lawn enforcement use snake to force information out of suspect? You sure Indonesia is the ultimate protagonist in every story after hearing that?

Of course, Vietnam would not brag about its "morality" back in the old days but in the 21st century, Vietnam dare to call itself to be better than Indonesia. Proof? WE. DON'T. BOMB. OUR. COUNTRYMEN.

With all that said, I strongly recommended that you Indonesian go back to where you are. Vietnam-Indonesia relation experience bumps from time to time. Let the officials sort it out instead of accusing others and arouse "unpleasant" memories. But if you Indonesian wish to go further with "re-education camps" and believe that Indonesia is always the right party, I'm more than happy to entertain you with "Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66", "Human right in Aceh", "Papua struggle for independence". Gosh, I bet we are going to have a good time with each other discussing those subjects, right gents?

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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> No one shoots the law enforcement of another country and claims: "I'm not at fault". Have ships from VN Coast Guard ever opened fire with live ammunition on Indonesian vessels? No? Then why the fck that it was us that escalate the conflict? You are drunk with national pride or what?
> 
> But I guess since you are born with an unstable mind, you have a hard time comprehending SOCIAL NORMS. Want to shoot empty Vietnam fishing boats? Help yourself. But the next time we napped an unlucky fisheries officer from Indonesia, he might not come back in one piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey it was you Indonesian that come up with all the guts and "military will" first. I simply pointed out some facts that the Indonesian military, with all that stuff they bought from world superpowers, could not handle a couple of rebel groups but they are so eager to shoot fishing boats. Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago and after that, we have to fought in Cambodia but in the end, peace reign over Vietnam. Indonesian nowadays? 24 Indonesian workers got their throat sliced and tossed into a mass grave. Indonesian polices tortured prisoners using snake.
> 
> So you Indonesian called your country the big bro of Asian while letting rebels run around killing civilian? Moreover, your lawn enforcement use snake to force information out of suspect? You sure Indonesia is the ultimate protagonist in every story after hearing that?
> 
> Of course, Vietnam would not brag about its "morality" back in the old days but in the 21st century, Vietnam dare to call itself to be better than Indonesia. Proof? WE. DON'T. BOMB. OUR. COUNTRYMEN.
> 
> With all that said, I strongly recommended that you Indonesian go back to where you are. Vietnam-Indonesia relation experience bumps from time to time. Let the officials sort it out instead of accusing others and arouse "unpleasant" memories. But if you Indonesian wish to go further with "re-education camps" and believe that Indonesia is always the right party, I'm more than happy to entertain you with "Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66", "Human right in Aceh", "Papua struggle for independence". Gosh, I bet we are going to have a good time with each other discussing those subjects, right gents?


Vietnam have no overlapping claim on our territory. Yet most boats we captured came from you guys. The VN coast guard entered indonesian waters illegally to extract 4 fishing boats. This is 100% vietnamese fault. 

3 vietnamese ship to be destroyed & Susi demanding an apology from the vietnamese government:
https://regional.kompas.com/read/20...nam-ditenggelamkan-di-laut-terdepan-indonesia

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## TenLua

warzone said:


> I was trying to be nice, guess I was wrong.... Don't mess with the Indonesian army, they invaded the East Timor in the 90s and destroyed that island powerful army. But ran before the Aussies get involved. Indonesia also is the most easy defendable country in the world with thousands and thousands of islands.
> 
> 
> You good fighting when you outnumber people by 10 against 1, East Timor, Christian and chinese massacres in the 90s, Papua conflict, Aceh conflict are a few examples.....Please remind me how we call people that fight in large number against a few...



Can’t blame them really; Australia, arguably, have the best ground fighting force in the world. You can tell by their accent. And their track record.

Is there not enough castrophies in Indonesia? Why the aghression on here?


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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Vietnam have no overlapping claim on our territory. Yet most boats we captured came from you guys. The VN coast guard entered indonesian waters illegally to extract 4 fishing boats. This is 100% vietnamese fault.
> 
> 3 vietnamese ship to be destroyed & Susi demanding an apology from the vietnamese government:
> https://regional.kompas.com/read/20...nam-ditenggelamkan-di-laut-terdepan-indonesia



Vietnam and Indonesian have no overlapping claims in term of territory. However, what Vietnamese and Indonesian are going to kill each other for is the claim of "traditional fishing ground". Yes, I agree that the term is kind of vague with lackluster proof but everyone In South East Asia (and China) is playing with that. I also believe that Indonesia and China have issues with that term near Natuna Regency.

Do I claim that Vietnamese fisherman always obeys the integrity of the territorial waters of other countries? Nah, I'm a Vietnamese and I know my countrymen are not exactly "by the rule" type. Nonetheless, what I'm saying now (and from the very beginning) is that I highly disapprove of the conducts of the Indonesian law enforcement. Shooting at the waters near a Vietnam Coast Guard vessel is provocative. It could not lead to war but all it takes is one slip of feet and it sure as hell would escalate the tension between countries.

But it seems that most Indonesian here fail to see my point. They prefer to taunt history of Vietnam and come up with derogatory comments aim toward Vietnam People Armed Forces and Vietnamese fisherman. One fcker even go as far as to make jokes of the sacrifice of our soldiers in Vietnam-China reef skirmishes. Would you feel funny if I laughed at Bali bombing and criticized the ability of Indonesian military to prevent attacks on civilians since that incident regardless of how many soldiers have died in the attempt? That is why I said that if the Indonesian in here keep sticking stubbornly with the "Indonesia is always right we have a higher moral standard than Vietnam" after all the articles I posted about dead Indonesian workers in a mass grave and Indonesian polices torturing suspects with a freaking snake, I'm going to take things up a notch here.

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## Viet

TenLua said:


> Can’t blame them really; Australia, arguably, have the best ground fighting force in the world. You can tell by their accent. And their track record.
> 
> Is there not enough castrophies in Indonesia? Why the aghression on here?


Indo people tend to become aggressive at some point, be in conflict or discussion. I don’t understand why so. It’s hard to have a normal conservation with such people. Their forefathers from Borneo once came to indochinese mainland occupying central part of Vietnam today. They were primitive society, practicing caste system and slave trades. Good, we one day erased them from the planet. The best thing we have ever done for humanity.

No more talks no more discussion


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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Vietnam and Indonesian have no overlapping claims in term of territory. However, what Vietnamese and Indonesian are going to kill each other for is the claim of "traditional fishing ground". Yes, I agree that the term is kind of vague with lackluster proof but everyone In South East Asia (and China) is playing with that. I also believe that Indonesia and China have issues with that term near Natuna Regency.
> 
> Do I claim that Vietnamese fisherman always obeys the integrity of the territorial waters of other countries? Nah, I'm a Vietnamese and I know my countrymen are not exactly "by the rule" type. Nonetheless, what I'm saying now (and from the very beginning) is that I highly disapprove of the conducts of the Indonesian law enforcement. Shooting at the waters near a Vietnam Coast Guard vessel is provocative. It could not lead to war but all it takes is one slip of feet and it sure as hell would escalate the tension between countries.
> 
> But it seems that most Indonesian here fail to see my point. They prefer to taunt history of Vietnam and come up with derogatory comments aim toward Vietnam People Armed Forces and Vietnamese fisherman. One fcker even go as far as to make jokes of the sacrifice of our soldiers in Vietnam-China reef skirmishes. Would you feel funny if I laughed at Bali bombing and criticized the ability of Indonesian military to prevent attacks on civilians since that incident regardless of how many soldiers have died in the attempt? That is why I said that if the Indonesian in here keep sticking stubbornly with the "Indonesia is always right we have a higher moral standard than Vietnam" after all the articles I posted about dead Indonesian workers in a mass grave and Indonesian polices torturing suspects with a freaking snake, I'm going to take things up a notch here.


You & I both know that the vietnamese claims of innocence doesn't hold water. That's why vietnam doesn't take this to the international court & remain silent about this. Because even your government knows that they're full of sh!ts. 

You assume that vietnamese fishermen are independent agents. The truth is Vietnamese fishing fleet are part of the VPA they won't dare fish outside their water unless they have approval of the government. That's why its okay to say the vietnamese are acting like scums.

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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You & I both know that the vietnamese claims of innocence doesn't hold water. That's why vietnam doesn't take this to the international court & remain silent about this. Because even your government knows that they're full of sh!ts.
> 
> You assume that Vietnamese fishermen are independent agents. The truth is Vietnamese fishing fleet are part of the VPA they won't dare fish outside their water unless they have approval of the government. That's why its okay to say the vietnamese are acting like scums.



What you have there is nothing but a mix between assumption and prejudge toward everyone else beside your own country. Unlike our friend from the Philippine, we Vietnamese know for certain that even if we win at international court, no one would bother to enforce the rule. Why bother wasting money for a thing that could not help? Philippine came out on top at the Hague court and guess what? Chinese fisherman still stroll all over Philippine waters nowadays. 

But what I found to be extremely funny is that you claim our fisherman to be an extension of our military. You have any idea what is the cost of such a system in practice? I bet you must have a read a bunch of article about Chinese militia fleet and assume that Vietnam employ the same practice. No, Vietnamese fishermans go out to the sea to feed their families, they are not combatants. However, in Indonesian eyes, every country in ASEAN must be scum to "fish near Indonesia" and Indonesian military "show serious gut" by open fire on vessels of foreign law enforcement. Feel free to indulge yourself with shooting empty fishing boat while rebels kill workers and polices torture suspects using snakes. Perhaps in the end, such is the way the mind of the average blindingly prideful Indonesian work.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> What you have there is nothing but a mix between assumption and prejudge toward everyone else beside your own country. Unlike our friend from the Philippine, we Vietnamese know for certain that even if we win at international court, no one would bother to enforce the rule. Why bother wasting money for a thing that could not help? Philippine came out on top at the Hague court and guess what? Chinese fisherman still stroll all over Philippine waters nowadays.
> 
> But what I found to be extremely funny is that you claim our fisherman to be an extension of our military. You have any idea what is the cost of such a system in practice? I bet you must have a read a bunch of article about Chinese militia fleet and assume that Vietnam employ the same practice. No, Vietnamese fishermans go out to the sea to feed their families, they are not combatants. However, in Indonesian eyes, every country in ASEAN must be scum to "fish near Indonesia" and Indonesian military "show serious gut" by open fire on vessels of foreign law enforcement. Feel free to indulge yourself with shooting empty fishing boat while rebels kill workers and polices torture suspects using snakes. Perhaps in the end, such is the way the mind of the average blindingly prideful Indonesian work.


Chronology of the incidents: 

KRI Bung Tomo (KRI TOM-357) approach & try to capture 4 vietnamese fishing boat (BV 525 TS, BV 9487 TS, BV 4923 TS, BV 525) in the natuna sea (05° 51' 40" U - 105° 49' 50" T) but then received a hail from 2 VFRS (Kiem Ngu 2142124 & 214263) boats to release the 4 vietnamese ships, the 2 vietnamese then try to block the corvette path by using dangerous maneuver which are illegal under article number 8 of COLREGS 1972 of which vietnam is a signatory & numerous other violations. To avoid collision the corvette fired 3 warning shots using small calibre gun but were all ignored, only after the corvette used its 76mm gun the 2 ships finally leaves the scene. 

This is not the 1st time that vietnam used its coast guard ships to interfere with lawful arrest. Last month KN-241 almost collided with KP Hiu Macan 01 for trying to arrest 4 vietnamese fishing boats. Who's willing to bet its the same ships that we just arrested. 

For all your claims of the vietnamese fishermen not being part of the military the VFRS sure willing to go through all that trouble protecting thieves. 

Let's face it you guys are no different than the chinese, you guys are even worse perhaps in this regards by being all hypocrite about it.


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## nufix

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Chronology of the incidents:
> 
> KRI Bung Tomo (KRI TOM-357) approach & try to capture 4 vietnamese fishing boat (BV 525 TS, BV 9487 TS, BV 4923 TS, BV 525) in the natuna sea (05° 51' 40" U - 105° 49' 50" T) but then received a hail from 2 VFRS (Kiem Ngu 2142124 & 214263) boats to release the 4 vietnamese ships, the 2 vietnamese then try to block the corvette path by using dangerous maneuver which are illegal under article number 8 of COLREGS 1972 of which vietnam is a signatory & numerous other violations. To avoid collision the corvette fired 3 warning shots using small calibre gun but were all ignored, only after the corvette used its 76mm gun the 2 ships finally leaves the scene.
> 
> This is not the 1st time that vietnam used its coast guard ships to interfere with lawful arrest. Last month KN-241 almost collided with KP Hiu Macan 01 for trying to arrest 4 vietnamese fishing boats. Who's willing to bet its the same ships that we just arrested.
> 
> For all your claims of the vietnamese fishermen not being part of the military the VFRS sure willing to go through all that trouble protecting thieves.
> 
> Let's face it you guys are no different than the chinese, you guys are even worse perhaps in this regards by being all hypocrite about it.



It is like I have always been saying, apparently there is no mirror whatsoever in Vietnam. They tend to avoid looking at themselves in the mirror. Many times Viets throw accusations at other countries, I am 100% certain that they are also doing the same thing.

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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> No one shoots the law enforcement of another country and claims: "I'm not at fault". Have ships from VN Coast Guard ever opened fire with live ammunition on Indonesian vessels? No? Then why the fck that it was us that escalate the conflict? You are drunk with national pride or what?
> 
> But I guess since you are born with an unstable mind, you have a hard time comprehending SOCIAL NORMS. Want to shoot empty Vietnam fishing boats? Help yourself. But the next time we napped an unlucky fisheries officer from Indonesia, he might not come back in one piece.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey it was you Indonesian that come up with all the guts and "military will" first. I simply pointed out some facts that the Indonesian military, with all that stuff they bought from world superpowers, could not handle a couple of rebel groups but they are so eager to shoot fishing boats. Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago and after that, we have to fought in Cambodia but in the end, peace reign over Vietnam. Indonesian nowadays? 24 Indonesian workers got their throat sliced and tossed into a mass grave. Indonesian polices tortured prisoners using snake.
> 
> So you Indonesian called your country the big bro of Asian while letting rebels run around killing civilian? Moreover, your lawn enforcement use snake to force information out of suspect? You sure Indonesia is the ultimate protagonist in every story after hearing that?
> 
> Of course, Vietnam would not brag about its "morality" back in the old days but in the 21st century, Vietnam dare to call itself to be better than Indonesia. Proof? WE. DON'T. BOMB. OUR. COUNTRYMEN.
> 
> With all that said, I strongly recommended that you Indonesian go back to where you are. Vietnam-Indonesia relation experience bumps from time to time. Let the officials sort it out instead of accusing others and arouse "unpleasant" memories. But if you Indonesian wish to go further with "re-education camps" and believe that Indonesia is always the right party, I'm more than happy to entertain you with "Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66", "Human right in Aceh", "Papua struggle for independence". Gosh, I bet we are going to have a good time with each other discussing those subjects, right gents?


Dude we merely fire warning shot. Stop making it like we shoot straight into your boat



Aqsuperman said:


> Vietnam and Indonesian have no overlapping claims in term of territory. However, what Vietnamese and Indonesian are going to kill each other for is the claim of "traditional fishing ground". Yes, I agree that the term is kind of vague with lackluster proof but everyone In South East Asia (and China) is playing with that. I also believe that Indonesia and China have issues with that term near Natuna Regency.
> 
> Do I claim that Vietnamese fisherman always obeys the integrity of the territorial waters of other countries? Nah, I'm a Vietnamese and I know my countrymen are not exactly "by the rule" type. Nonetheless, what I'm saying now (and from the very beginning) is that I highly disapprove of the conducts of the Indonesian law enforcement. Shooting at the waters near a Vietnam Coast Guard vessel is provocative. It could not lead to war but all it takes is one slip of feet and it sure as hell would escalate the tension between countries.
> 
> But it seems that most Indonesian here fail to see my point. They prefer to taunt history of Vietnam and come up with derogatory comments aim toward Vietnam People Armed Forces and Vietnamese fisherman. One fcker even go as far as to make jokes of the sacrifice of our soldiers in Vietnam-China reef skirmishes. Would you feel funny if I laughed at Bali bombing and criticized the ability of Indonesian military to prevent attacks on civilians since that incident regardless of how many soldiers have died in the attempt? That is why I said that if the Indonesian in here keep sticking stubbornly with the "Indonesia is always right we have a higher moral standard than Vietnam" after all the articles I posted about dead Indonesian workers in a mass grave and Indonesian polices torturing suspects with a freaking snake, I'm going to take things up a notch here.


Well at least we fight against terrorism. Even sophisticated europeam countries like france,germany,belgium failed to foil many terrorist attack LOL. Unlike you of course who funded terror group like VC


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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Chronology of the incidents:
> 
> KRI Bung Tomo (KRI TOM-357) approach & try to capture 4 vietnamese fishing boat (BV 525 TS, BV 9487 TS, BV 4923 TS, BV 525) in the natuna sea (05° 51' 40" U - 105° 49' 50" T) but then received a hail from 2 VFRS (Kiem Ngu 2142124 & 214263) boats to release the 4 vietnamese ships, the 2 vietnamese then try to block the corvette path by using dangerous maneuver which are illegal under article number 8 of COLREGS 1972 of which vietnam is a signatory & numerous other violations. To avoid collision the corvette fired 3 warning shots using small calibre gun but were all ignored, only after the corvette used its 76mm gun the 2 ships finally leaves the scene.
> 
> This is not the 1st time that vietnam used its coast guard ships to interfere with lawful arrest. Last month KN-241 almost collided with KP Hiu Macan 01 for trying to arrest 4 vietnamese fishing boats. Who's willing to bet its the same ships that we just arrested.
> 
> For all your claims of the vietnamese fishermen not being part of the military the VFRS sure willing to go through all that trouble protecting thieves.
> 
> Let's face it you guys are no different than the chinese, you guys are even worse perhaps in this regards by being all hypocrite about it.





nufix said:


> It is like I have always been saying, apparently there is no mirror whatsoever in Vietnam. They tend to avoid looking at themselves in the mirror. Many times Viets throw accusations at other countries, I am 100% certain that they are also doing the same thing



Once again, I need to point out some facts:

- What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.

- Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.



striver44 said:


> Well at least we fight against terrorism. Even sophisticated europeam countries like france,germany,belgium failed to foil many terrorist attack LOL. Unlike you of course who funded terror group like VC



- Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?


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## Viet

nufix said:


> It is like I have always been saying, apparently there is no mirror whatsoever in Vietnam. They tend to avoid looking at themselves in the mirror. Many times Viets throw accusations at other countries, I am 100% certain that they are also doing the same thing.


What accusation? You and other including your nationalist political establishment are the one here that throw accusations. Who resorted to using guns? Yes it’s You!



striver44 said:


> Lol casualties in war is a must. Speaking of getting killed. what about the 840.000+ casualties in vietnam war? Im sure they are having a great time getting killed or firebombed.LOL. im sure that is something to be proud of
> 
> I admit that indonesian forces uses inhumane way in many of the conflict area, but what about you? Arent your government busy building "reeducation" camp back then ?? You must be the most moral army in the world Hahahahaha


Aha making fun of Vietnam war casualties? Shameless clown!


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## barjo

Aqsuperman said:


> Once again, I need to point out some facts:
> 
> - What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.
> 
> - Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> - Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?


sorry about that bro... real soldier real navy ain't use water gun... sorry to say.. we dont make people wet LoL


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## Viet

barjo said:


> sorry about that bro... real soldier real navy ain't use water gun... sorry to say.. we dont make people wet LoL


Why Lol? Don’t act like a nationalist retard!


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## Aqsuperman

barjo said:


> sorry about that bro... real soldier real navy ain't use water gun... sorry to say.. we dont make people wet LoL



There is a reason why Japan, South Korea and a whole lot of country rely on water guns to take care of disputes in the sea. First, people rarely die from that. Second, it could hardly be classified as military actions so the tension shall remain in check.

But it seems that you ultra-nationalist Indonesian only care about things like: "Hah, I shoot you and you don't dare to do anything. That makes me stronger than you". That kind of mind would lead to disaster someday. In fact, it already did. With the rebels running amok in Indonesia and repeated natural disasters (my condolence to the dead and those who are suffering), I dare say Indonesia government is attempting to divert some of the dissatisfaction to other countries. Guess what kind of subject would vitalize the average Indonesian these kinds of days: shooting a bunch of empty fishing boats and acting aggressive against lawn enforcement of a fellow ASEAN member.

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## Ambalat

Our backyard so it's our rules, period!
Sometimes thiefs got killed by their victim and sometimes by law enforcement, it happened everywhere.
I must say, that's the risk of their job.
So, my advise is... If you don't wanna get hurt then don't get in to trouble or get another job instead.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Once again, I need to point out some facts:
> 
> - What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.
> 
> - Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> - Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?


Fun facts: Vietnam's source cannot be trusted. Considering we captured over 200! Of your ships. Your government are responsible for more than half of the ships captured by our coast guards & navy.


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## barjo

Aqsuperman said:


> There is a reason why Japan, South Korea and a whole lot of country rely on water guns to take care of disputes in the sea. First, people rarely die from that. Second, it could hardly be classified as military actions so the tension shall remain in check.
> 
> But it seems that you ultra-nationalist Indonesian only care about things like: "Hah, I shoot you and you don't dare to do anything. That makes me stronger than you". That kind of mind would lead to disaster someday. In fact, it already did. With the rebels running amok in Indonesia and repeated natural disasters (my condolence to the dead and those who are suffering), I dare say Indonesia government is attempting to divert some of the dissatisfaction to other countries. Guess what kind of subject would vitalize the average Indonesian these kinds of days: shooting a bunch of empty fishing boats and acting aggressive against lawn enforcement of a fellow ASEAN member.


like to be said here in world to became nationalist ultra nationalis you may say... you must learn from vietnam.. am I right bro? LoL


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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> There is a reason why Japan, South Korea and a whole lot of country rely on water guns to take care of disputes in the sea. First, people rarely die from that. Second, it could hardly be classified as military actions so the tension shall remain in check.
> 
> But it seems that you ultra-nationalist Indonesian only care about things like: "Hah, I shoot you and you don't dare to do anything. That makes me stronger than you". That kind of mind would lead to disaster someday. In fact, it already did. With the rebels running amok in Indonesia and repeated natural disasters (my condolence to the dead and those who are suffering), I dare say Indonesia government is attempting to divert some of the dissatisfaction to other countries. Guess what kind of subject would vitalize the average Indonesian these kinds of days: shooting a bunch of empty fishing boats and acting aggressive against lawn enforcement of a fellow ASEAN member.


Speaking of natural disaster,vietnam regularly got fucked by typhoons.just sayin



Viet said:


> What accusation? You and other including your nationalist political establishment are the one here that throw accusations. Who resorted to using guns? Yes it’s You!
> 
> 
> Aha making fun of Vietnam war casualties? Shameless clown!


Whats with the anger.? You started it



Aqsuperman said:


> Once again, I need to point out some facts:
> 
> - What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.
> 
> - Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.
> 
> 
> 
> - Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?


Wohoooo interesting, vietcong state funded terror group must be a center of national pride lol. Im sorry for those poor vietnam civillians that vietcong terrorist killed without mercy,their properties sacked by some commie proletariat clowns who later at the end of the century goes full capitalist hahahahaha.NORTH VIETNAM must be proud.


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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun facts: Vietnam's source cannot be trusted. Considering we captured over 200! Of your ships. Your government are responsible for more than half of the ships captured by our coast guards & navy.



Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best  Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.



Ambalat said:


> Our backyard so it's our rules, period!
> Sometimes thiefs got killed by their victim and sometimes by law enforcement, it happened everywhere.
> I must say, that's the risk of their job.
> So, my advise is... If you don't wanna get hurt then don't get in to trouble or get another job instead.



You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim



striver44 said:


> Speaking of natural disaster,vietnam regularly got fucked by typhoons.just sayin



But hey, we did not got fked that frequently compared to Indonesia these kinds of days, right? 2018 Lombok earthquake, 2018 Sulawesi earthquake and tsunami, 2018 Sunda Strait tsunami, 2019 South Sulawesi floods,... Indonesian died left and right all over the place. Gosh and your military still have times and resources to shoot empty fishing boats. The average Indonesian must have felt happy about that. You sure God don't want to tear Indonesia a new one as punishment for acting like ones without brain?



striver44 said:


> Wohoooo interesting, vietcong state funded terror group must be a center of national pride lol. Im sorry for those poor vietnam civillians that vietcong terrorist killed without mercy,their properties sacked by some commie proletariat clowns who later at the end of the century goes full capitalist hahahahaha.NORTH VIETNAM must be proud LOL.



And you have gone full retard with those unintelligible screams. Did you smash your keyboard while typing that sentence? Let me enlighten you with some information about about Indonesian and their "communist hunts". I will try to use simple words so one with reduced intelligence like you could understand.

"With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."

"The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"

"Those arrested included leading politicians, artists and writers such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, and peasants and soldiers. Those incarcerated in the vast network of prisons and concentration camps faced "extraordinarily inhumane conditions." Many did not survive this first period of detention, dying from malnutrition and beatings"

Well.... I guess everything fit the doctrine of Indonesian on human right? Let's see how Indonesian are doing nowadays.

"Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"

"Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."

"Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."

Can I have a round of applaud for the excellent service of the Indonesian military and their conduct in the 21st century please  Oh wait, they are acting like the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. Man you guys put the "terror VC" to shame with what you guys are doing in Papua and Aceh. Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.

Words alone don't convince you about the brutality of Indonesian military? How about we share with each other some secret clips and pictures from Papua and Aceh? Man I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.

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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best  Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.
> 
> 
> 
> You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim
> 
> 
> 
> But hey, we did not got fked that frequently compared to Indonesia these kinds of days, right? 2018 Lombok earthquake, 2018 Sulawesi earthquake and tsunami, 2018 Sunda Strait tsunami, 2019 South Sulawesi floods,... Indonesian died left and right all over the place. Gosh and your military still have times and resources to shoot empty fishing boats. The average Indonesian must have felt happy about that. You sure God don't want to tear Indonesia a new one as punishment for acting like ones without brain?
> 
> 
> 
> And you have gone full retard with those unintelligible screams. Did you smash your keyboard while typing that sentence? Let me enlighten you with some information about about Indonesian and their "communist hunts". I will try to use simple words so one with reduced intelligence like you could understand.
> 
> "With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."
> 
> "The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"
> 
> "Those arrested included leading politicians, artists and writers such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, and peasants and soldiers. Those incarcerated in the vast network of prisons and concentration camps faced "extraordinarily inhumane conditions." Many did not survive this first period of detention, dying from malnutrition and beatings"
> 
> Well.... I guess everything fit the doctrine of Indonesian on human right? Let's see how Indonesian are doing nowadays.
> 
> "Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"
> 
> "Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."
> 
> "Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."
> 
> Can I have a round of applaud for the excellent service of the Indonesian military and their conduct in the 21st century please  Oh wait, they are acting like the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. Man you guys put the "terror VC" to shame with what you guys are doing in Papua and Aceh. Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.
> 
> Words alone don't convince you about the brutality of Indonesian military? How about we share with each other some secret clips and pictures from Papua and Aceh? Man I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.


Pffffft hahahaha Well its acceptable at least we indonesian in this forum never see ourselves as if we are some kind of angels with moral high ground, if you look carefully i do admit indonesian forces mistreatment,unlike vietnamese forumers of course who blame indonesia for crimes while failing to look back at its own hahaha....as may indonesian forumers said before, dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl


----------



## TenLua

striver44 said:


> Pffffft hahahaha Well its acceptable at least we indonesian in this forum never see ourselves as if we are some kind of angels with moral high ground, if you look carefully i do admit indonesian forces mistreatment,unlike vietnamese forumers of course who blame indonesia for crimes while failing to look back at its own hahaha....as may indonesian forumers said before, dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl


Plenty of mirrors in VN. When VN looks in the mirror, it sees itself. There is no illusions about that. But when indo look at itself in the mirror, it sees VN. Analogous to a kitten and a lion. 

I say that because of all the places you could be, you chose to be here, comparing indo to VN. Why?


----------



## Ambalat

Aqsuperman said:


> Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best  Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.
> 
> You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim



At least your government should educate these fishermans beter, give or equip their boats wwith GPS or some something. If.. you wanna believe that traditional fishing ground bullshit, then good luck with chinese fishing boats and navy at the SCS. they believe the entire SCS also their traditional fishing ground. For your info, we already praised by our action... internationally, no doubt about that and thank's to our die hard and no mercy minister Susi Pudjiastuti. Just google.


----------



## trishna_amṛta

Aqsuperman said:


> Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best  Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe.



What torture?! BTW if it's was me (or my people) we most likely bring sufficient size reticulated python to swallow the person whole (less paperwork that way)



Aqsuperman said:


> Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.



Seriously Vietnam dare to bring the issue to international arbitrage?



Aqsuperman said:


> "With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."
> 
> "The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"
> 
> "Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"
> 
> "Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."
> 
> "Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."



Care to provide any hard evidence other than hearsay or baseless acquisition that not only has no ground in reality but also doesn't make any sense whatsoever?



Aqsuperman said:


> Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.



A yet here you are



Aqsuperman said:


> I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.



How about you side shoot first, and well see how that will end.



striver44 said:


> dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl



They are commie, they still waiting for someone to "fairly sharing their wealth" which include mirror in it.



Aqsuperman said:


> Once again, I need to point out some facts:
> 
> - What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots.



And the person who tell the tell able to live through to tell the story?! Do you see the ridiculousness of that claim alone? If you still don't get it then I highly suggest you go to firing range and try to shoot some Ma Deuce against wooden plank or better a concrete block and see yourself the result.


----------



## Nike

Commies always commies, just like the GI's said during Nam War a good commies is a dead commies. Period.


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## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> Pffffft hahahaha Well its acceptable at least we indonesian in this forum never see ourselves as if we are some kind of angels with moral high ground, if you look carefully i do admit indonesian forces mistreatment,unlike vietnamese forumers of course who blame indonesia for crimes while failing to look back at its own hahaha....as may indonesian forumers said before, dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl



Oh, remind who is the fcker that bring the whole ordeal about this into Vietnam forum? Oh wait, it's you Indonesian with all that military will and gut. It was the Indonesian that stared this fight and keep it going. I already tell "Hey, shut up and go back to where you are. Let the officials take care of everything" but no, you Indonesian want to prove that you are always right. Now you are trying to say you know how evil the Indonesia is but at least you don't claim to be innocence like the Vietnamese. You are the BIGGEST F-A-G I have ever met in this forum with all those lies. 

Moreover, your "terror VC" joke die pretty fast once I bring out the genocide stuff eh? Now you are babbling all days about "mirror, mirror, mirror. Talk about mirror or i would rage quit"



Ambalat said:


> At least your government should educate these fishermans beter, give or equip their boats wwith GPS or some something. If.. you wanna believe that traditional fishing ground bullshit, then good luck with chinese fishing boats and navy at the SCS. they believe the entire SCS also their traditional fishing ground. For your info, we already praised by our action... internationally, no doubt about that and thank's to our die hard and no mercy minister Susi Pudjiastuti. Just google.



Sure, have fun with shooting up boat while rebels are busy slicing Indonesian workers  All Vietnamese fishing vessels have GPS. Praised? By who? The Chinese? The Malaysian? Who in their right mind praise such an action?



trishna_amṛta said:


> What torture?! BTW if it's was me (or my people) we most likely bring sufficient size reticulated python to swallow the person whole (less paperwork that way)



People that come up late talk the biggest  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-indonesia-police-put-snake-on-west-papua-boy

"Indonesian police who used a large snake to terrorise a handcuffed boy is reflective of “a widespread pattern of violence” against indigenous West Papuans, a United Nations panel of experts has said, calling for investigations into numerous cases of violence, unlawful arrest and mistreatment."

But I guess the concept of human right is brand new in Indonesia so you guys think joke like letting a python swallowing people is funny...



trishna_amṛta said:


> Care to provide any hard evidence other than hearsay or baseless acquisition that not only has no ground in reality but also doesn't make any sense whatsoever?



Hey, I get what I can from the Internet You want hard evidence include pictures and clips? Go to backyards. You grandfather might have kept some skulls in the warehouse. I could not post thing like that as It violates the rules. In any case, here are some research material, I highly doubt everything all the experts claim is wrong

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26732062_Genocide_in_Indonesia_1965-1966
https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=249QDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=vi#v=onepage&q&f=false



trishna_amṛta said:


> A yet here you are



A meaningless sentence come from a clueless Indonesian. This is the Pakistan Defence Forum. This thread is called Vietnam Defence Forum. Have you see any thing that say "Indonesia" in here? Oh wait, there are: INDONESIAN TROLLS.



trishna_amṛta said:


> How about you side shoot first, and well see how that will end.



Sadly, it was your side that you shoot first. To attempt to change history seem lame



trishna_amṛta said:


> They are commie, they still waiting for someone to "fairly sharing their wealth" which include mirror in it.



Vietnam has a total population of 91.70 million, 8.4% of the population lived below the international poverty line (around 7 million). Indonesia has a population of 261 million; of those, 28 million citizens live below the poverty line, approximately 10 percent of the population.

Vietnam GDP sure fall behind Indonesia but I guess more Vietnamese know more about "wealth" than Indonesian.



trishna_amṛta said:


> And the person who tell the tell able to live through to tell the story?! Do you see the ridiculousness of that claim alone? If you still don't get it then I highly suggest you go to firing range and try to shoot some Ma Deuce against wooden plank or better a concrete block and see yourself the result.



Penetration power is nothing if you could not hit crap. The fisherman claim that it was a short burst, not an entire ammo box. But I guess that make you Indonesian come up with more bullshit like "We don't intentionally hit your boat with 12.7mm to kill, just want to scare lol"



Marine Rouge said:


> Commies always commies, just like the GI's said during Nam War a good commies is a dead commies. Period.



And the country that send those GI recently picked the communist Vietnam to host summit between itself and another nuclear-armed country. Guess that mean US and Vietnam could walk over the past. American troops used to say in the Pacific Theater: "_The only good Jap_ is a _Jap_ who's been _dead_ six months". Nowadays, say that sentence in Japan and people would sue you to death for it. 

Indonesia nowadays? Still the same kind of regime 50 years ago that play the "communist card" to win vote and kill minority ethic in Papua and Aceh. How about Indonesia let people in those regions take a vote about their independence then we would talk about "democracy"? Oh wait you can't. Not when rebel cut people throat and the military unleash live ammunition on peaceful demonstrators.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## trishna_amṛta

Aqsuperman said:


> People that come up late talk the biggest  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-indonesia-police-put-snake-on-west-papua-boy
> 
> "Indonesian police who used a large snake to terrorise a handcuffed boy is reflective of “a widespread pattern of violence” against indigenous West Papuans, a United Nations panel of experts has said, calling for investigations into numerous cases of violence, unlawful arrest and mistreatment."
> 
> But I guess the concept of human right is brand new in Indonesia so you guys think joke like letting a python swallowing people is funny...



Again what torture..?!

*I wasn't joking about letting reticulated python swallow a guy,* in fact I even knew certain place in Borneo where there is still a giant serpent make her nest (most likely living fossil)




Aqsuperman said:


> Hey, I get what I can from the Internet You want hard evidence include pictures and clips? Go to backyards. You grandfather might have kept some skulls in the warehouse. I could not post thing like that as It violates the rules. In any case, here are some research material, I highly doubt everything all the experts claim is wrong
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26732062_Genocide_in_Indonesia_1965-1966
> https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=249QDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=vi#v=onepage&q&f=false



Again your quoting stuff from FAKE NEWS and medias that has no reputation of integrity whatsoever and from ... is that even Google search query? Your knowledge came from Google search and FAKE NEWS medias? 



Aqsuperman said:


> Sadly, it was your side that you shoot first. To attempt to change history seem lame



As I had stated before how about your side shoot first and we going to see what that would lead. BTW I really looking forward if I can meet people like you somewhere out on the sea with you guys bring whatever rifle (or any weapon) that suit you and so do I. There we will see who is the straighter shooter.



Aqsuperman said:


> Vietnam has a total population of 91.70 million, 8.4% of the population lived below the international poverty line (around 7 million). Indonesia has a population of 261 million; of those, 28 million citizens live below the poverty line, approximately 10 percent of the population.
> 
> Vietnam GDP sure fall behind Indonesia but I guess more Vietnamese know more about "wealth" than Indonesian.



You mean the wealth that was gain from "fair distribution of someone else wealth" right ? 
BTW do you even know how much things cost in Indonesia? You keep quoting shits that you don't even understand



Aqsuperman said:


> Penetration power is nothing if you could not hit crap. The fisherman claim that it was a short burst, not an entire ammo box. But I guess that make you Indonesian come up with more bullshit like "We don't intentionally hit your boat with 12.7mm to kill, just want to scare lol"



Clearly *you had shown again that you don't have any understanding whatsoever in fundamental of firearm or how "hot-pursuit" is regulate by international convention*. Just curious how many Google search you made just to understand what I was referring to?!



Aqsuperman said:


> Indonesia nowadays? Still the same kind of regime 50 years ago that play the "communist card" to win vote and kill minority ethic in Papua and Aceh.



How about basing your argument from something that is real instead of something that doesn't exist or not happening? 



Aqsuperman said:


> How about Indonesia let people in those regions take a vote about their independence then we would talk about "democracy"? Oh wait you can't. Not when rebel cut people throat and the military unleash live ammunition on peaceful demonstrators.



And AGAIN you keep stating baseless accusation without hard evidence what so ever. How many Google search query you made just to cranking all those statements of yours?

BTW If you Vietnamese posters are so annoyed or whatever because we Indonesian poster bring this subject up. Then why don't you just report us to the mod of the forum instead huh?
Personally I don't give any shit if I will be banned from this kind of forum, anyway I'm not the one whose posting something from dubious source.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best  Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.
> 
> 
> 
> You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim
> 
> 
> 
> But hey, we did not got fked that frequently compared to Indonesia these kinds of days, right? 2018 Lombok earthquake, 2018 Sulawesi earthquake and tsunami, 2018 Sunda Strait tsunami, 2019 South Sulawesi floods,... Indonesian died left and right all over the place. Gosh and your military still have times and resources to shoot empty fishing boats. The average Indonesian must have felt happy about that. You sure God don't want to tear Indonesia a new one as punishment for acting like ones without brain?
> 
> 
> 
> And you have gone full retard with those unintelligible screams. Did you smash your keyboard while typing that sentence? Let me enlighten you with some information about about Indonesian and their "communist hunts". I will try to use simple words so one with reduced intelligence like you could understand.
> 
> "With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."
> 
> "The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"
> 
> "Those arrested included leading politicians, artists and writers such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, and peasants and soldiers. Those incarcerated in the vast network of prisons and concentration camps faced "extraordinarily inhumane conditions." Many did not survive this first period of detention, dying from malnutrition and beatings"
> 
> Well.... I guess everything fit the doctrine of Indonesian on human right? Let's see how Indonesian are doing nowadays.
> 
> "Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"
> 
> "Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."
> 
> "Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."
> 
> Can I have a round of applaud for the excellent service of the Indonesian military and their conduct in the 21st century please  Oh wait, they are acting like the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. Man you guys put the "terror VC" to shame with what you guys are doing in Papua and Aceh. Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.
> 
> Words alone don't convince you about the brutality of Indonesian military? How about we share with each other some secret clips and pictures from Papua and Aceh? Man I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.



Fun facts: the indonesian ministry of fishery always have detailed informations of their accounts accessible to the publics & they have regular press briefing. What does the vietnam government have for transparency & accountability? 

Do point it out to me when is the last time our fishermen have to be escorted by government gunboats when we're stealing other people's fish. Also there's no fish in vietnam. Not anymore. Not after you guys overfished & polluted your sea & the scs is controlled by china. Why do you think there's so many of you guys are over here stealing other people's fishes & almost none from ours. You even stole from palau & papua new guinea. Can you explain that? 

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2015/06/15/palau-illegal-fishing

http://www.pireport.org/articles/20...ned-fishing-illegally-papua-new-guinea-waters


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## Ambalat

Aqsuperman said:


> Sure, have fun with shooting up boat while rebels are busy slicing Indonesian workers  All Vietnamese fishing vessels have GPS. Praised? By who? The Chinese? The Malaysian? Who in their right mind praise such an action?



So they all have GPS and still intruding someone else backyards, are they all broken? made in Vietnam or they just bought them from AliExpress? Praised by who? mmm is Google banned in Vietnam? if not then just google for "Susi Pudjiastuti illegal fishing" you'll get your answer.

talking about the traditional fishing ground... You accept UNCLOS but want a traditional fishing ground shits, what a joke  . Please don't blame the Chinese if they're also doing their fishing activities inside/within the SCS, it's their rights and your rights. I'm more than happy with them, but please don't even come close to our seas, coz we're also... more than happy to send them to the bottom of the ocean.


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## Aqsuperman

trishna_amṛta said:


> Again what torture..?!
> 
> *I wasn't joking about letting reticulated python swallow a guy,* in fact I even knew certain place in Borneo where there is still a giant serpent make her nest (most likely living fossil)



You have hard time understanding words or what? Your polices use snake to force information out of a suspects. That is not torture? You guys are filming an episode on Animal Planet with that guy? 



trishna_amṛta said:


> Again your quoting stuff from FAKE NEWS and medias that has no reputation of integrity whatsoever and from ... is that even Google search query? Your knowledge came from Google search and FAKE NEWS medias?



Screaming fake new won't hep with your case. I could quote you actual books but sadly, copyright issues force me to use a link from google book. Both links complied information from scholars and witness, what do you want more? A time machine that you back to that particular period? I give a link, you scream fake new. I give another link, you scream fake new. But hey, there are tons of book out there that cover the genocide, acting in denial make Indonesian look weak and pitiful. 



trishna_amṛta said:


> As I had stated before how about your side shoot first and we going to see what that would lead. BTW I really looking forward if I can meet people like you somewhere out on the sea with you guys bring whatever rifle (or any weapon) that suit you and so do I. There we will see who is the straighter shooter



Once again, this is not a contest of gut and marksmanship. This is a issue about interactions between law enforcement force on the sea. You seem eager to shoot others? How about use your brain for once to take care of the rebels that keep slicing the throat of your countryman?



trishna_amṛta said:


> You mean the wealth that was gain from "fair distribution of someone else wealth" right ?
> BTW do you even know how much things cost in Indonesia? You keep quoting shits that you don't even understand



Vietnam (and China) switch to the market economy for like 20 years already. You must be living under a hole to not notice that. The number I quote are taken from World Bank, the international poverty line stay the same no mater what country (1 dollar/day). As far as i see, more Vietnamese could afford mirror than Indonesian. Period.



trishna_amṛta said:


> Clearly *you had shown again that you don't have any understanding whatsoever in fundamental of firearm or how "hot-pursuit" is regulate by international convention*. Just curious how many Google search you made just to understand what I was referring to?!



Actually, I am serving as a part-time militia after graduating from university. I know how firearms wok and guess what: If you could not aim, you could not hit. You think of the M2 Browning as a fcking mortar or what? Hot pursuit? Nah, it's just the average Indonesian acting like a dick. 



trishna_amṛta said:


> How about basing your argument from something that is real instead of something that doesn't exist or not happening?



Amnesty International said it exist. Freedom House said it exist. United Nation said it exist. The Guardian said it exist. New York Time said it exist. Only your brain seem not to exist 



trishna_amṛta said:


> And AGAIN you keep stating baseless accusation without hard evidence what so ever. How many Google search query you made just to cranking all those statements of yours?
> 
> BTW If you Vietnamese posters are so annoyed or whatever because we Indonesian poster bring this subject up. Then why don't you just report us to the mod of the forum instead huh?
> Personally I don't give any shit if I will be banned from this kind of forum, anyway I'm not the one whose posting something from dubious source.



Google is a good way to search for information if you could filter out credible sources. But if you are a diehard nationalist or outright ignorant fool, everything that say against your belief would be considered fake news. It's impossible to argue against that kind of mind. 

Annoyed? Yeah, I'm fcking annoyed that you Indonesian coming here and crash our thread but report you to the mod? Then what? A simple ban? That is NOWHERE near what I want. I want these pages to show Vietnamese and other members the hypocrisy and the aggressiveness of Indonesians. Damn, to think that I donated a part of my salary back to Indonesia as relief aid back in the 2018 Sulawesi tsunami, now I feel kind of stupid. Should give those money to the rebels and add more oil to the flame. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Fun facts: the indonesian ministry of fishery always have detailed informations of their accounts accessible to the publics & they have regular press briefing. What does the vietnam government have for transparency & accountability?
> 
> Do point it out to me when is the last time our fishermen have to be escorted by government gunboats when we're stealing other people's fish. Also there's no fish in vietnam. Not anymore. Not after you guys overfished & polluted your sea & the scs is controlled by china. Why do you think there's so many of you guys are over here stealing other people's fishes & almost none from ours. You even stole from palau & papua new guinea. Can you explain that?



Detailed information? Hah, that definitely crack me up. Again, you keep insisting that "I am right and you are wrong". We have fcking Ministry Of Fisheries control that release report every year and guess what, you guys are among the parties we claim to be extremely hostile. No fish in Vietnam? So you are an expert in marine biology now? The degree you have must come from from a crappy university

https://vov.vn/kinh-te/ngu-dan-phu-yen-don-loc-bien-lai-ca-tram-trieu-mot-chuyen-tau-873565.vov






That is sure a big lack of fish for a small no-name market in Central Vietnam.



Ambalat said:


> So they all have GPS and still intruding someone else backyards, are they all broken? made in Vietnam or they just bought them from AliExpress? Praised by who? mmm is Google banned in Vietnam? if not then just google for "Susi Pudjiastuti illegal fishing" you'll get your answer.
> 
> talking about the traditional fishing ground... You accept UNCLOS but want a traditional fishing ground shits, what a joke  . Please don't blame the Chinese if they're also doing their fishing activities inside/within the SCS, it's their rights and your rights. I'm more than happy with them, but please don't even come close to our seas, coz we're also... more than happy to send them to the bottom of the ocean.



Oh right. Praised as in "A little bit of a nut case"? You Indonesian sure have quite a weird to classify "praises". "is Google banned in Vietnam?" Your friend scream at me for using Google and still you come up with that question. You sure you Indonesian have good eyes there?

Sure, we will come and go as we please  Today, Indonesian open fire on a boat from Vietnam Fisheries Control. Tomorrow, Vietnam Fisheries Control nap an Indonesian officer and send him to Davy Jones' Locker 

"Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry, denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard. He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard." Old new from the old days.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ambalat

Aqsuperman said:


> Oh right. Praised as in "A little bit of a nut case"? You Indonesian sure have quite a weird to classify "praises". "is Google banned in Vietnam?" Your friend scream at me for using Google and still you come up with that question. You sure you Indonesian have good eyes there?
> 
> Sure, we will come and go as we please  Today, Indonesian open fire on a boat from Vietnam Fisheries Control. Tomorrow, Vietnam Fisheries Control nap an Indonesian officer and send him to Davy Jones' Locker
> 
> "Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry, denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard. He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard." Old new from the old days.



That's why you should use Google properly, search before asking! that's what google for. And for your info our fishery ministry use google tech to monitor the boats operating in our seas. About the "praises" you call it weird, I guess Google is weird too to let us use their tech to monitor our seas. Leonardo DiCaprio, Prince Charles, EU, UN etc etc they're all weird too for praising the Indonesian success on combating the IUUF in our seas.

Off topic then:
About my fellow countrymen, am not interested in him or what he write. I'm more interested in your argument about this illegal fishing issues in our seas. That's why I always quoted stuff you write about my argument.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> You have hard time understanding words or what? Your polices use snake to force information out of a suspects. That is not torture? You guys are filming an episode on Animal Planet with that guy?
> 
> 
> 
> Screaming fake new won't hep with your case. I could quote you actual books but sadly, copyright issues force me to use a link from google book. Both links complied information from scholars and witness, what do you want more? A time machine that you back to that particular period? I give a link, you scream fake new. I give another link, you scream fake new. But hey, there are tons of book out there that cover the genocide, acting in denial make Indonesian look weak and pitiful.
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, this is not a contest of gut and marksmanship. This is a issue about interactions between law enforcement force on the sea. You seem eager to shoot others? How about use your brain for once to take care of the rebels that keep slicing the throat of your countryman?
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam (and China) switch to the market economy for like 20 years already. You must be living under a hole to not notice that. The number I quote are taken from World Bank, the international poverty line stay the same no mater what country (1 dollar/day). As far as i see, more Vietnamese could afford mirror than Indonesian. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I am serving as a part-time militia after graduating from university. I know how firearms wok and guess what: If you could not aim, you could not hit. You think of the M2 Browning as a fcking mortar or what? Hot pursuit? Nah, it's just the average Indonesian acting like a dick.
> 
> 
> 
> Amnesty International said it exist. Freedom House said it exist. United Nation said it exist. The Guardian said it exist. New York Time said it exist. Only your brain seem not to exist
> 
> 
> 
> Google is a good way to search for information if you could filter out credible sources. But if you are a diehard nationalist or outright ignorant fool, everything that say against your belief would be considered fake news. It's impossible to argue against that kind of mind.
> 
> Annoyed? Yeah, I'm fcking annoyed that you Indonesian coming here and crash our thread but report you to the mod? Then what? A simple ban? That is NOWHERE near what I want. I want these pages to show Vietnamese and other members the hypocrisy and the aggressiveness of Indonesians. Damn, to think that I donated a part of my salary back to Indonesia as relief aid back in the 2018 Sulawesi tsunami, now I feel kind of stupid. Should give those money to the rebels and add more oil to the flame.
> 
> 
> 
> Detailed information? Hah, that definitely crack me up. Again, you keep insisting that "I am right and you are wrong". We have fcking Ministry Of Fisheries control that release report every year and guess what, you guys are among the parties we claim to be extremely hostile. No fish in Vietnam? So you are an expert in marine biology now? The degree you have must come from from a crappy university
> 
> https://vov.vn/kinh-te/ngu-dan-phu-yen-don-loc-bien-lai-ca-tram-trieu-mot-chuyen-tau-873565.vov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is sure a big lack of fish for a small no-name market in Central Vietnam.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh right. Praised as in "A little bit of a nut case"? You Indonesian sure have quite a weird to classify "praises". "is Google banned in Vietnam?" Your friend scream at me for using Google and still you come up with that question. You sure you Indonesian have good eyes there?
> 
> Sure, we will come and go as we please  Today, Indonesian open fire on a boat from Vietnam Fisheries Control. Tomorrow, Vietnam Fisheries Control nap an Indonesian officer and send him to Davy Jones' Locker
> 
> "Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry, denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard. He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard." Old new from the old days.


Nobody on planet earth trust vietnam's account on the issues. Remember your coast guard ships entered our territory without permission. There's no changing that fact.

https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/the-fishing-battle-on-the-front-line-of-beijings-ambitions/92282
Those are tuna they only exist in the open sea you idiot. Nowhere near vietnam & no need to guess how your no name market gets all it fish if all vietnamese fishermen acted like the one here.

Unless indonesian fishermen poach under the shadow of a government gunboat then we're not even close in how the vietnamese acted against their neighbor. You guys are no different than the chinese.


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## cochine

Last update 17:12 | 06/03/2019
 


*Vessels of Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force visit Da Nang*
_Two training vessels of the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force (JMSDF) arrived at Tien Sa port on March 6, beginning a visit to the central city of Da Nang._


_



_

_Vessel JS Setoyuki of the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force at Tien Sa port_


The ships, JS Setoyuki and JS Shimayuki, carry 390 officers and sailors led by Nakagama Yoshiyuki, Commander of the JMSDF’s Training Division 1.

During their stay in Da Nang, they are set to pay courtesy calls to the city’s leaders and the Military Region 5 High Command. They will also take part in a volleyball exchange with officers and soldiers of the Naval Region 3 High Command, and join Vietnamese naval soldiers in military music performances at the Trung Vuong Theatre.

The JMSDF vessels pay the visit amid the increasing enhancement of Vietnam-Japan relations, including defence ties. 

The trip, scheduled to last until March 9, is one of the activities realising the recent agreements between the two countries’ leaders so as to develop bilateral defence cooperation in a result-oriented manner.






JS Setoyuki and JS Shimayuki ships, carrying 390 officers and sailors, dock at Tien Sa port in Da Nang




















Japanese crew members are welcomed at Tien Sa port








During their stay in Da Nang, they are set to pay courtesy calls to the city’s leaders and the Military Region 5 High Command








They will also take part in a volleyball exchange with officers and soldiers of the Naval Region 3 High Command, and join Vietnamese naval soldiers in military music performances at the Trung Vuong Theatre








The JMSDF vessels pay the visit amid the increasing enhancement of Vietnam-Japan relations, including defence ties








The visit is one of the activities realising the recent agreements between the two countries’ leaders so as to develop bilateral defence cooperation in a result-oriented manner







The trip is scheduled to last until March 9



VNA


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## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> Commies always commies, just like the GI's said during Nam War a good commies is a dead commies. Period.


Ok what if people say a dead Indo is a good Indo?

Do you agree?


----------



## Aqsuperman

Ambalat said:


> That's why you should use Google properly, search before asking! that's what google for. And for your info our fishery ministry use google tech to monitor the boats operating in our seas. About the "praises" you call it weird, I guess Google is weird too to let us use their tech to monitor our seas. Leonardo DiCaprio, Prince Charles, EU, UN etc etc they're all weird too for praising the Indonesian success on combating the IUUF in our seas.



Combating the IUUF? Sure if that is what grind your gear. Shooting live ammunition against the law enforcement of a country that have never shoot at you? Yeah. I'm pretty sure Leonardo DiCaprio, Prince Charles, EU, UN etc would show your country with praises for that. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Nobody on planet earth trust vietnam's account on the issues. Remember your coast guard ships entered our territory without permission. There's no changing that fact.



And you think how many countries in the world would throw their weight behind Indonesia, especially when you open fire first and not us? Remember that others see country as a whole, not separate services. With the way that Indonesian law enforcement and military behave across the land and in those "autonomous regions", you think Indonesia could have landslide win a contest of trust with Vietnam?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Those are tuna they only exist in the open sea you idiot. Nowhere near vietnam & no need to guess how your no name market gets all it fish if all vietnamese fishermen acted like the one here.
> 
> Unless indonesian fishermen poach under the shadow of a government gunboat then we're not even close in how the vietnamese acted against their neighbor. You guys are no different than the chinese.



"Open sea" and "nowhere near Vietnam" ? So ALL tuna fish learn to concentrate exclusively near Indonesia? That is a wild imagination you have there, my prideful Indonesian friend. Those fishes are VIETNAM Yellowfin Tuna and we have registration for that. http://wwf.panda.org/knowledge_hub/...lutions/fisheries/vietnam_yellowfin_tuna_fip/ .Vietnam Fisheries Control already designate zones with high probability of such tuna fish and guess what? None of them got near Malaysia, lest Indonesia. 

Fishing with gunboat? That is funny. All I see is Indonesian gunboat opening fire against a vessel from Vietnam Fisheries Control and that is what others would see. Name one time Vietnam shoot fishing boats from Indonesia, Philippine, Taiwan and other countries. You can't? Then your claim about Vietnam acting like China sound like a joke. In fact, the hostile behaviors of Indonesia law enforcement forces make the country the second highest threat for ASEAN fisherman on the sea nowadays. Feel free to shoot at vessels of fisheries control of other countries. But remember that if an unlucky Indonesian fisherman/officers got captured, I assure you Vietnam and others would resort to extreme measures without hesitant.



Viet said:


> Ok what if people say a dead Indo is a good Indo?
> 
> Do you agree?



One thumb up for that  With disaster after disaster, dead Indo lies all along the coast and they are the best citizens in the country. They see our life cheap? Then from now on, we Vietnamese should start viewing life of Indonesian to be cheaper than a cent.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Combating the IUUF? Sure if that is what grind your gear. Shooting live ammunition against the law enforcement of a country that have never shoot at you? Yeah. I'm pretty sure Leonardo DiCaprio, Prince Charles, EU, UN etc would show your country with praises for that.
> 
> 
> 
> And you think how many countries in the world would throw their weight behind Indonesia, especially when you open fire first and not us? Remember that others see country as a whole, not separate services. With the way that Indonesian law enforcement and military behave across the land and in those "autonomous regions", you think Indonesia could have landslide win a contest of trust with Vietnam?
> 
> 
> 
> "Open sea" and "nowhere near Vietnam" ? So ALL tuna fish learn to concentrate exclusively near Indonesia? That is a wild imagination you have there, my prideful Indonesian friend. Those fishes are VIETNAM Yellowfin Tuna and we have registration for that. http://wwf.panda.org/knowledge_hub/...lutions/fisheries/vietnam_yellowfin_tuna_fip/ .Vietnam Fisheries Control already designate zones with high probability of such tuna fish and guess what? None of them got near Malaysia, lest Indonesia.
> 
> Fishing with gunboat? That is funny. All I see is Indonesian gunboat opening fire against a vessel from Vietnam Fisheries Control and that is what others would see. Name one time Vietnam shoot fishing boats from Indonesia, Philippine, Taiwan and other countries. You can't? Then your claim about Vietnam acting like China sound like a joke. In fact, the hostile behaviors of Indonesia law enforcement forces make the country the second highest threat for ASEAN fisherman on the sea nowadays. Feel free to shoot at vessels of fisheries control of other countries. But remember that if an unlucky Indonesian fisherman/officers got captured, I assure you Vietnam and others would resort to extreme measures without hesitant.
> 
> 
> 
> One thumb up for that  With disaster after disaster, dead Indo lies all along the coast and they are the best citizens in the country. They see our life cheap? Then from now on, we Vietnamese should start viewing life of Indonesian to be cheaper than a cent.


They burn the rain forest to the ground. Jakarta sinks into the ocean because they suck too much waters out of the ground. They run amok with nationalism and religious fanaticsm. Large parts of national budgets go to police and army. Common people go hungry to bed. Natural disasters happen regularly so falling aircraft from the sky. Indo maids are abused everywhere. But surprisingly nobody cares.They see communism everywhere as enemy and consider their president as God.

Calling Indo as delusional people is an understatement.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ambalat

Aqsuperman said:


> Combating the IUUF? Sure if that is what grind your gear. Shooting live ammunition against the law enforcement of a country that have never shoot at you? Yeah. I'm pretty sure Leonardo DiCaprio, Prince Charles, EU, UN etc would show your country with praises for that.



If that's what it takes to get rid of them, we'll do. and like it or not in reality we are winning the war on IUUF.
a thief is a thief and if it's backed by law enforcement then they're nothing but a nasty thief and we'd punished them as well if they're resisting. As for the thiefs, warning shoot is to drive them away, we're not going to kill them unless they fight back. we're just taken what they've stolen, destroy their boats, put them in jail and bring them to their family when jail term is served.

You barely heard our fisherman on the news? well our seas are fast enough for them to fish and no they don't have to steal at some one else backyard.

Just obey the UNCLOS and stick with it and we're all live in peace. well not really you still have the Chinese in the entire SCS. Good viet is a dead viet? they'd say that and good luck with them


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## warzone

Ambalat said:


> If that's what it takes to get rid of them, we'll do. and like it or not in reality we are winning the war on IUUF.
> a thief is a thief and if it's backed by law enforcement then they're nothing but a nasty thief and we'd punished them as well if they're resisting. As for the thiefs, warning shoot is to drive them away, we're not going to kill them unless they fight back. we're just taken what they've stolen, destroy their boats, put them in jail and bring them to their family when jail term is served.
> 
> You barely heard our fisherman on the news? well our seas are fast enough for them to fish and no they don't have to steal at some one else backyard.
> 
> Just obey the UNCLOS and stick with it and we're all live in peace. well not really you still have the Chinese in the entire SCS. Good viet is a dead viet? they'd say that and good luck with them



Ah those BRAVE Indonesian fisherman (who turned armed pirates by opportunities ) that raped, robbed and killed thousands (women, children and babies) of defenseless Vietnamese refugees boatpeople fleeing wars in the 70s and 80s... Never in the news? They are in history books and collective memories now. Another example of bravery and legendary fighting spirit of....

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ambalat

warzone said:


> Ah those BRAVE Indonesian fisherman (who turned armed pirates by opportunities ) that raped, robbed and killed thousands (women, children and babies) of defenseless Vietnamese refugees boatpeople fleeing wars in the 70s and 80s... Never in the news? They are in history books and collective memories now. Another example of bravery and legendary fighting spirit of....


Woaaaahhh... heeelloowww dude you’re way off topic now, just stay focus on the subject will ya. Bringing back some old memory wont help much, you should thank us for letting you use our island to live instead. We’re mature now thanx to our experiences from the past. You too should just move on, otherwise you gonna have French, US, Aussie forumners in this forum.


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## barjo

warzone said:


> Ah those BRAVE Indonesian fisherman (who turned armed pirates by opportunities ) that raped, robbed and killed thousands (women, children and babies) of defenseless Vietnamese refugees boatpeople fleeing wars in the 70s and 80s... Never in the news? They are in history books and collective memories now. Another example of bravery and legendary fighting spirit of....


why those boat peoples goes in the sea instead? Are they affraid of VC going to rape and robb them so they take the chance for survival in the sea... whats the matter with your history lesson people? LoL

Reactions: Like Like:
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## striver44

TenLua said:


> Plenty of mirrors in VN. When VN looks in the mirror, it sees itself. There is no illusions about that. But when indo look at itself in the mirror, it sees VN. Analogous to a kitten and a lion.
> 
> I say that because of all the places you could be, you chose to be here, comparing indo to VN. Why?





barjo said:


> why those boat peoples goes in the sea instead? Are they affraid of VC going to rape and robb them so they take the chance for survival in the sea... whats the matter with your history lesson people? LoL


They're sure afraid. Because vietcong is a terror organization and yess its state sponsored by north vietnam. So sad



Aqsuperman said:


> Fishing with gunboat? That is funny. All I see is Indonesian gunboat opening fire against a vessel from Vietnam Fisheries Control and that is what others would see. Name one time Vietnam shoot fishing boats from Indonesia, Philippine, Taiwan and other countries. You can't? Then your claim about Vietnam acting like China sound like a joke. In fact, the hostile behaviors of Indonesia law enforcement forces make the country the second highest threat for ASEAN fisherman on the sea nowadays. Feel free to shoot at vessels of fisheries control of other countries. But remember that if an unlucky Indonesian fisherman/officers got captured, I assure you Vietnam and others would resort to extreme measures


Ew ew ewwww hahahaha i dare you to lynch our officers. Big mouthed commies, we stay true to our words, when we say burn the ship,we burn them. Call me when your wet dream turns into reality,hahahaha



TenLua said:


> Plenty of mirrors in VN. When VN looks in the mirror, it sees itself. There is no illusions about that. But when indo look at itself in the mirror, it sees VN. Analogous to a kitten and a lion.
> 
> I say that because of all the places you could be, you chose to be here, comparing indo to VN. Why?


I dont compare indo to vietnam, im just sayin, your fishing boat illegaly enter our territory, assisted by your CG and in the end of the day you proof yourself to be another version of china will little or no remorse for illegal incursion into another country waters. 


Got it?


----------



## Nike

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Nobody on planet earth trust vietnam's account on the issues. Remember your coast guard ships entered our territory without permission. There's no changing that fact.
> 
> https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/the-fishing-battle-on-the-front-line-of-beijings-ambitions/92282
> Those are tuna they only exist in the open sea you idiot. Nowhere near vietnam & no need to guess how your no name market gets all it fish if all vietnamese fishermen acted like the one here.
> 
> Unless indonesian fishermen poach under the shadow of a government gunboat then we're not even close in how the vietnamese acted against their neighbor. You guys are no different than the chinese.



At least chinese got more money for global investment drive to accompany their big talk, meanwhile this fucking hillbillies from jungle is much poorer than us and already talking big


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Nobody on planet earth trust vietnam's account on the issues. Remember your coast guard ships entered our territory without permission. There's no changing that fact.
> 
> https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/the-fishing-battle-on-the-front-line-of-beijings-ambitions/92282
> Those are tuna they only exist in the open sea you idiot. Nowhere near vietnam & no need to guess how your no name market gets all it fish if all vietnamese fishermen acted like the one here.
> 
> Unless indonesian fishermen poach under the shadow of a government gunboat then we're not even close in how the vietnamese acted against their neighbor. You guys are no different than the chinese.


Its disputed water, if u believe it belong to u, then sue VN to international court.

ID army is just a joke, u should feel lucky cos VN is busy wt big enemies like CN-US now.



warzone said:


> Ah those BRAVE Indonesian fisherman (who turned armed pirates by opportunities ) that raped, robbed and killed thousands (women, children and babies) of defenseless Vietnamese refugees boatpeople fleeing wars in the 70s and 80s... Never in the news? They are in history books and collective memories now. Another example of bravery and legendary fighting spirit of....


their army is just a cheap joke, we dont even wanna send our real warship to stop their warship.

btw, just put all of those barbarian on ignore list. dont waste time wt them.


----------



## warzone

Viva_Viet said:


> Its disputed water, if u believe it belong to u, then sue VN to international court.
> 
> ID army is just a joke, u should feel lucky cos VN is busy wt big enemies like CN-US now.
> 
> 
> their army is just a cheap joke, we dont even wanna send our real warship to stop their warship.
> 
> btw, just put all of those barbarian on ignore list. dont waste time wt them.



Don't mess with the Indonesian army, they fought and won big wars against huge armies like East Timor (35 000 Indonesian military against 2000 ragtag rebels) , Aceh (42 000 against 5000), Papua (30 000 against 1000) to name a few... Great military achievements

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Aqsuperman

Ambalat said:


> If that's what it takes to get rid of them, we'll do. and like it or not in reality we are winning the war on IUUF.
> a thief is a thief and if it's backed by law enforcement then they're nothing but a nasty thief and we'd punished them as well if they're resisting. As for the thiefs, warning shoot is to drive them away, we're not going to kill them unless they fight back. we're just taken what they've stolen, destroy their boats, put them in jail and bring them to their family when jail term is served.
> 
> You barely heard our fisherman on the news? well our seas are fast enough for them to fish and no they don't have to steal at some one else backyard.
> 
> Just obey the UNCLOS and stick with it and we're all live in peace. well not really you still have the Chinese in the entire SCS. Good viet is a dead viet? they'd say that and good luck with them



Again. I have no qualm about what you Indonesian what to do, the only thing that come to my mind is the atmosphere generated from the action. So far, with the Indonesian eagerness to open live ammunition on unarmed protesters in "autonomous region", I highly doubt you fisheries control vessels would simply "shoot to drive people away". In Vietnam, we hear about Indonesian all the time since they are know for calling their military to shoot everyone in sight."Good viet is a dead viet"? For a people that claim "Bringing back some old memory wont help much", your idea is kind of bullshit  



barjo said:


> why those boat peoples goes in the sea instead? Are they affraid of VC going to rape and robb them so they take the chance for survival in the sea... whats the matter with your history lesson people? LoL



Simple: THEY NEVER HEAR ABOUT INDONESIAN PIRATES. In a war, people always flee. Guess how many people from Papua flee to other places after Indonesia annexed half of their country. Pretty sure after that, Human Right Commission filed plenty of report about Indonesia "rape, loot and engage in all kinds of plunder" in the region. Have you ever read some of them because for sure as hell they EXIST. 



striver44 said:


> They're sure afraid. Because vietcong is a terror organization and yess its state sponsored by north vietnam. So sad



Hello, F-A-G, you sure love to talk about "terro VC" but don't bother to look about your own military back in the old days and in the 21st century? Terror? I bet Indonesia bring lots and lots of terror to Papua and Aceh RIGHT NOW. 



striver44 said:


> Ew ew ewwww hahahaha i dare you to lynch our officers. Big mouthed commies, we stay true to our words, when we say burn the ship,we burn them. Call me when your wet dream turns into reality,hahahaha



Indonesian used to claim: "Vietnam never dares to clash with us on the sea". After clashes happened, Indonesian claimed: " Vietnam never dare to capture our officer". After Vietnam captured some Indonesian officers, a retard Indonesian now claim: "Vietnam never dare to lynch our officer"

No, Vietnam would not dare to lynch Indonesian officer, we simply expose him to minor concussions so he could not come back from a coma



striver44 said:


> I dont compare indo to vietnam, im just sayin, your fishing boat illegaly enter our territory, assisted by your CG and in the end of the day you proof yourself to be another version of china will little or no remorse for illegal incursion into another country waters.



Let's see, aggressiveness on the sea: Indonesian win. Willingness to resort to firearm: Indonesian win. The number of trolls that flood forum thread of other countries to express their agenda: Indonesian win

Yup, that sure sound like Chinese a lot from my point of view.



Marine Rouge said:


> At least chinese got more money for global investment drive to accompany their big talk, meanwhile this fucking hillbillies from jungle is much poorer than us and already talking big



With more than 20 million Indonesian living with less than 1 dollar/ day compared to Vietnam 8 million (World Bank numbers), pretty sure more Vietnamese know about the wealth than Indonesian. Indonesian GDP is 5 times higher than Vietnam So why the heel so many live in poverty? Oh wait, they could not work without any worry as rebels would slice their throat at any time. Meanwhile, "hillbillies from jungle" could get to their working place without worrying that some rebels might jump out and execute them in a gruesome manner. 

But for a total A-hole that quickly resort to wartime sayings and ethnic slurs, your feeble mind could not comprehend (or refuse to accept) that. You jump from subject to subject looking for a way to dehumanize Vietnamese (without any provocation from Vietnamese member) and that is the only thing you good at in your pathetic life, Mr. AIR CHIEF MARSHAL. (hope you don't think you are actually a marshal in real life lol)

For a "mighty" country like Indonesia, your ability to take care of some disfranchised rebel is a joke. But your mind always seeks glory in clashes with other ASEAN members. How about using some of those trigger-happy troops to deal with the rebels once and for all? Oh wait, you guys sucks at that kind of task

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

warzone said:


> Don't mess with the Indonesian army, they fought and won big wars against huge armies like East Timor (35 000 Indonesian military against 2000 ragtag rebels) , Aceh (42 000 against 5000), Papua (30 000 against 1000) to name a few... Great military achievements


Hey but there is hope. Thanks Russia bro. SU35 will change the game. They will bombard the shit out of those rebels. The necessary money will be made by burning more rain forests to make place for more palm oil plants.





Marine Rouge said:


> At least chinese got more money for global investment drive to accompany their big talk, meanwhile this fucking hillbillies from jungle is much poorer than us and already talking big


Why bringing China money into the discussion? Ok why not bringing indonesian garlic price into this Vietnam military thread? you are funnier than I thought.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## barjo

Aqsuperman said:


> Again. I have no qualm about what you Indonesian what to do, the only thing that come to my mind is the atmosphere generated from the action. So far, with the Indonesian eagerness to open live ammunition on unarmed protesters in "autonomous region", I highly doubt you fisheries control vessels would simply "shoot to drive people away". In Vietnam, we hear about Indonesian all the time since they are know for calling their military to shoot everyone in sight."Good viet is a dead viet"? For a people that claim "Bringing back some old memory wont help much", your idea is kind of bullshit
> 
> 
> 
> Simple: THEY NEVER HEAR ABOUT INDONESIAN PIRATES. In a war, people always flee. Guess how many people from Papua flee to other places after Indonesia annexed half of their country. Pretty sure after that, Human Right Commission filed plenty of report about Indonesia "rape, loot and engage in all kinds of plunder" in the region. Have you ever read some of them because for sure as hell they EXIST.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello, F-A-G, you sure love to talk about "terro VC" but don't bother to look about your own military back in the old days and in the 21st century? Terror? I bet Indonesia bring lots and lots of terror to Papua and Aceh RIGHT NOW.
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian used to claim: "Vietnam never dares to clash with us on the sea". After clashes happened, Indonesian claimed: " Vietnam never dare to capture our officer". After Vietnam captured some Indonesian officers, a retard Indonesian now claim: "Vietnam never dare to lynch our officer"
> 
> No, Vietnam would not dare to lynch Indonesian officer, we simply expose him to minor concussions so he could not come back from a coma
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see, aggressiveness on the sea: Indonesian win. Willingness to resort to firearm: Indonesian win. The number of trolls that flood forum thread of other countries to express their agenda: Indonesian win
> 
> Yup, that sure sound like Chinese a lot from my point of view.
> 
> 
> 
> With more than 20 million Indonesian living with less than 1 dollar/ day compared to Vietnam 8 million (World Bank numbers), pretty sure more Vietnamese know about the wealth than Indonesian. Indonesian GDP is 5 times higher than Vietnam So why the heel so many live in poverty? Oh wait, they could not work without any worry as rebels would slice their throat at any time. Meanwhile, "hillbillies from jungle" could get to their working place without worrying that some rebels might jump out and execute them in a gruesome manner.
> 
> But for a total A-hole that quickly resort to wartime sayings and ethnic slurs, your feeble mind could not comprehend (or refuse to accept) that. You jump from subject to subject looking for a way to dehumanize Vietnamese (without any provocation from Vietnamese member) and that is the only thing you good at in your pathetic life, Mr. AIR CHIEF MARSHAL. (hope you don't think you are actually a marshal in real life lol)
> 
> For a "mighty" country like Indonesia, your ability to take care of some disfranchised rebel is a joke. But your mind always seeks glory in clashes with other ASEAN members. How about using some of those trigger-happy troops to deal with the rebels once and for all? Oh wait, you guys sucks at that kind of task


what do you think chinese thingking about vietland? may be part of their old rulling power... so prepare your self as you told what happent in papua as you fill free to speak, you might reunited with uncle Mao in the near future... and i guess we're not in the same team in this north natuna sea issue, well goodluck meet your friendly chinnese CG then.. coz we will not! any thief come in, is not good guest, like Tan Malaka said (by the way he commie who build chinnese coomie party in sanghai in the past when he was far east commie intern) The owner of the house will not negotiate with looters who come to loot "our sea"


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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> No, Vietnam would not dare to lynch Indonesian officer, we simply expose him to minor concussions so he could not come back from a coma


Ooooh interesting wet dreams you have there, but still its only a dream. So sad.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Hey but there is hope. Thanks Russia bro. SU35 will change the game. They will bombard the shit out of those rebels. The necessary money will be made by burning more rain forests to make place for more palm oil plants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why bringing China money into the discussion? Ok why not bringing indonesian garlic price into this Vietnam military thread? you are funnier than I thought.


All barbarians have same problem, they alway think that the disputed land/water belong to them and they can threaten ppl wt their stupid arm forces even when the International court never support them. (CHampa thought they could enslave VN, Pol Pol thought VN land belong to them, CN thinks SCS (east VN sea) belong to them, ID think the disputed water bween VN-ID belong to them).

CHampa, Pol Pot r dead when we fed up wt their annoying . CN only control 10-12 % SCS(east VN sea) and will collapse soon under US's sanction . When CN is really dead, we will "settle" the dispute water wt ID wt the same way we "settle" the dispute wt Champa and Pol Pot.


----------



## Nike

Viet said:


> They burn the rain forest to the ground. Jakarta sinks into the ocean because they suck too much waters out of the ground. They run amok with nationalism and religious fanaticsm. Large parts of national budgets go to police and army. Common people go hungry to bed. Natural disasters happen regularly so falling aircraft from the sky. Indo maids are abused everywhere. But surprisingly nobody cares.They see communism everywhere as enemy and consider their president as God.
> 
> Calling Indo as delusional people is an understatement.



Lol, look at yours much of your budget goes for army and the corruption Vietcong generals did, and as i said your country goes old while staying poor and at the same time made problem with most of your neighbours


----------



## barjo

Viva_Viet said:


> All barbarians have same problem, they alway think that the disputed land/water belong to them and they can threaten ppl wt their stupid arm forces even when the International court never support them. (CHampa thought they could enslave VN, Pol Pol thought VN land belong to them, CN thinks SCS (east VN sea) belong to them, ID think the disputed water bween VN-ID belong to them).
> 
> CHampa, Pol Pot r dead when we fed up wt their annoying . CN only control 10-12 % SCS(east VN sea) and will collapse soon under US's sanction . When CN is really dead, we will "settle" the dispute water wt ID wt the same way we "settle" the dispute wt Champa and Pol Pot.


says that to US President Trumant and US marine LOL, you so miserable bro...


----------



## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> All barbarians have same problem, they alway think that the disputed land/water belong to them and they can threaten ppl wt their stupid arm forces even when the International court never support them. (CHampa thought they could enslave VN, Pol Pol thought VN land belong to them, CN thinks SCS (east VN sea) belong to them, ID think the disputed water bween VN-ID belong to them).
> 
> CHampa, Pol Pot r dead when we fed up wt their annoying . CN only control 10-12 % SCS(east VN sea) and will collapse soon under US's sanction . When CN is really dead, we will "settle" the dispute water wt ID wt the same way we "settle" the dispute wt Champa and Pol Pot.


Ok hahahaha. Very nice dream.very well done


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## Aqsuperman

barjo said:


> what do you think chinese thingking about vietland? may be part of their old rulling power... so prepare your self as you told what happent in papua as you fill free to speak, you might reunited with uncle Mao in the near future... and i guess we're not in the same team in this north natuna sea issue, well goodluck meet your friendly chinnese CG then.. coz we will not! any thief come in, is not good guest, like Tan Malaka said (by the way he commie who build chinnese coomie party in sanghai in the past when he was far east commie intern) The owner of the house will not negotiate with looters who come to loot "our sea"



It seems that your blood is boiling to the point that your veins are about to explode as the number of grammar errors in your sentence is increasing by the minute but hey, I'm no grammar nazi so let get this show rolling everyone.

- Before the colonial period, countries in Southeast Asia beat up each other from time no time while grabbing land, there's no helping that. But in the post-colonial period, things change as people value the integrity of their nation more. The way Indonesia annexed Papua and invaded East Timor clearly indicate that Indonesia is far from a side that simply wants to protect their country. You feel that Indonesia is a country that upholds the moral code in the region? Let Aceh and Papua hold a vote regarding their independence and we shall see what happen.

- Chinese? Oh no worry. We Vietnamese meet them every day in South China Sea (which is a name that leaves a bad taste in my mouth). So we have ample experience at dealing with our northern neighbor, you don't have to worry about us 

- Do what you believe to be right as I don't like to be someone that tells you the "best way" to behave. But remember this: Too eager to shoot others? Then others might not be that willing to let things pass the next time you mess up



striver44 said:


> Ooooh interesting wet dreams you have there, but still its only a dream. So sad.



So you are both a F-A-G and a meme boy? Good to know 



Marine Rouge said:


> Lol, look at yours much of your budget goes for army and the corruption Vietcong generals did, and as i said your country goes old while staying poor and at the same time made problem with most of your neighbours



Let's see...

Vietnam People Armed Forces in 2018 boast the 9th numerous military in the world with T-90 tanks, Scud missiles, Kilo submarine, Sukhoi aircraft, Gepard Frigates and plenty of goods from other countries tries. The budget is estimated to be above 7.8 billion US dollars per year which includes the costs of various military-civil services.

What about Indonesia and their almighty army?

- Piracy in Indonesia: The Navy seems to be formed for parades as they can do crap about pirates
- Rebel in Indonesia: The Army never fall behind their Army counterpart in term of uselessness as rebels roam the land killing people left and right with near-impunity.
- Human right in Indonesia: Now this is funny. Vietnam is a "communist" country so Indonesia must be way ahead of Vietnam when it comes to human right, right? Oh wait, we are in the fcking same group with UN Human Right Commission blasting us with complaints every year

Old and poor? The more you speak show how ignorant you are. One Google query with keyword "Vietnam economic" should tell you everything you must know about us. But as a narrow-minded Indonesian, your feeble brain fail to take in information that don't match your Stone Age belief. More than 20 million Indonesian live with less than a dollar a day and in Vietnam, the number is less than 10 million but you still you think you guys are all rich and powerful. Good joke there.

Relations with other ASEAN member? Well, things get bumpy in Vietnam but I assure you, it could not get as hot as Malaysia-Indonesia relation.



barjo said:


> says that to US President Trumant and US marine LOL, you so miserable bro...



Oh you know something new about "US President Trumant and US marine" involvement in Southeast Asia and surrounding regions that see the lost of US servicemen defending France colonial, Chinese Nationalist and various puppet government back in the old days? Please share us your wisdom. 



striver44 said:


> Ok hahahaha. Very nice dream.very well done



The right to hope for a better future is the right of each person. For example, I bet the average Indonesian would dream that:
1/Someone do something with the rebels that slaughter us citizen like animals every day
2/ Someone do something with the pirate that steal our stuff every time our ship get near Malacca Strait
3/ Someone do something with the policeman that locks us in the same cage with a god damn snake without evidence

After like what, 2-4 pages of constant bickering, it seem that the mind of the Indonesian in here are running low on ideas. First they try to boast their pride with baseless reasons then switch to a mix of ethic slurs and wartime sayings (with a whole lot of mirror crap in between) and end up with meme and "hahaha...ha...ha...ha...dream"

I'm game at anytime, Indonesian boys. We play this game until you guys crawl your pathetic A-S-S back to whatever hole you Indonesian come from and stay there for good. There is no way in hell you guys get to have the last words in OUR thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## barjo

Aqsuperman said:


> It seems that your blood is boiling to the point that your veins are about to explode as the number of grammar errors in your sentence is increasing by the minute but hey, I'm no grammar nazi so let get this show rolling everyone.
> 
> - Before the colonial period, countries in Southeast Asia beat up each other from time no time while grabbing land, there's no helping that. But in the post-colonial period, things change as people value the integrity of their nation more. The way Indonesia annexed Papua and invaded East Timor clearly indicate that Indonesia is far from a side that simply wants to protect their country. You feel that Indonesia is a country that upholds the moral code in the region? Let Aceh and Papua hold a vote regarding their independence and we shall see what happen.
> 
> - Chinese? Oh no worry. We Vietnamese meet them every day in South China Sea (which is a name that leaves a bad taste in my mouth). So we have ample experience at dealing with our northern neighbor, you don't have to worry about us
> 
> - Do what you believe to be right as I don't like to be someone that tells you the "best way" to behave. But remember this: Too eager to shoot others? Then others might not be that willing to let things pass the next time you mess up
> 
> 
> 
> So you are both a F-A-G and a meme boy? Good to know
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> 
> Vietnam People Armed Forces in 2018 boast the 9th numerous military in the world with T-90 tanks, Scud missiles, Kilo submarine, Sukhoi aircraft, Gepard Frigates and plenty of goods from other countries tries. The budget is estimated to be above 7.8 billion US dollars per year which includes the costs of various military-civil services.
> 
> What about Indonesia and their almighty army?
> 
> - Piracy in Indonesia: The Navy seems to be formed for parades as they can do crap about pirates
> - Rebel in Indonesia: The Army never fall behind their Army counterpart in term of uselessness as rebels roam the land killing people left and right with near-impunity.
> - Human right in Indonesia: Now this is funny. Vietnam is a "communist" country so Indonesia must be way ahead of Vietnam when it comes to human right, right? Oh wait, we are in the fcking same group with UN Human Right Commission blasting us with complaints every year
> 
> Old and poor? The more you speak show how ignorant you are. One Google query with keyword "Vietnam economic" should tell you everything you must know about us. But as a narrow-minded Indonesian, your feeble brain fail to take in information that don't match your Stone Age belief. More than 20 million Indonesian live with less than a dollar a day and in Vietnam, the number is less than 10 million but you still you think you guys are all rich and powerful. Good joke there.
> 
> Relations with other ASEAN member? Well, things get bumpy in Vietnam but I assure you, it could not get as hot as Malaysia-Indonesia relation.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you know something new about "US President Trumant and US marine" involvement in Southeast Asia and surrounding regions that see the lost of US servicemen defending France colonial, Chinese Nationalist and various puppet government back in the old days? Please share us your wisdom.
> 
> 
> 
> The right to hope for a better future is the right of each person. For example, I bet the average Indonesian would dream that:
> 1/Someone do something with the rebels that slaughter us citizen like animals every day
> 2/ Someone do something with the pirate that steal our stuff every time our ship get near Malacca Strait
> 3/ Someone do something with the policeman that locks us in the same cage with a god damn snake without evidence
> 
> After like what, 2-4 pages of constant bickering, it seem that the mind of the Indonesian in here are running low on ideas. First they try to boast their pride with baseless reasons then switch to a mix of ethic slurs and wartime sayings (with a whole lot of mirror crap in between) and end up with meme and "hahaha...ha...ha...ha...dream"
> 
> I'm game at anytime, Indonesian boys. We play this game until you guys crawl your pathetic A-S-S back to whatever hole you Indonesian come from and stay there for good. There is no way in hell you guys get to have the last words in OUR thread.


damn... i give u a clue, truman doctrine.. and see did a cave man could read LOL



Aqsuperman said:


> It seems that your blood is boiling to the point that your veins are about to explode as the number of grammar errors in your sentence is increasing by the minute but hey, I'm no grammar nazi so let get this show rolling everyone.
> 
> - Before the colonial period, countries in Southeast Asia beat up each other from time no time while grabbing land, there's no helping that. But in the post-colonial period, things change as people value the integrity of their nation more. The way Indonesia annexed Papua and invaded East Timor clearly indicate that Indonesia is far from a side that simply wants to protect their country. You feel that Indonesia is a country that upholds the moral code in the region? Let Aceh and Papua hold a vote regarding their independence and we shall see what happen.
> 
> - Chinese? Oh no worry. We Vietnamese meet them every day in South China Sea (which is a name that leaves a bad taste in my mouth). So we have ample experience at dealing with our northern neighbor, you don't have to worry about us
> 
> - Do what you believe to be right as I don't like to be someone that tells you the "best way" to behave. But remember this: Too eager to shoot others? Then others might not be that willing to let things pass the next time you mess up
> 
> 
> 
> So you are both a F-A-G and a meme boy? Good to know
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> 
> Vietnam People Armed Forces in 2018 boast the 9th numerous military in the world with T-90 tanks, Scud missiles, Kilo submarine, Sukhoi aircraft, Gepard Frigates and plenty of goods from other countries tries. The budget is estimated to be above 7.8 billion US dollars per year which includes the costs of various military-civil services.
> 
> What about Indonesia and their almighty army?
> 
> - Piracy in Indonesia: The Navy seems to be formed for parades as they can do crap about pirates
> - Rebel in Indonesia: The Army never fall behind their Army counterpart in term of uselessness as rebels roam the land killing people left and right with near-impunity.
> - Human right in Indonesia: Now this is funny. Vietnam is a "communist" country so Indonesia must be way ahead of Vietnam when it comes to human right, right? Oh wait, we are in the fcking same group with UN Human Right Commission blasting us with complaints every year
> 
> Old and poor? The more you speak show how ignorant you are. One Google query with keyword "Vietnam economic" should tell you everything you must know about us. But as a narrow-minded Indonesian, your feeble brain fail to take in information that don't match your Stone Age belief. More than 20 million Indonesian live with less than a dollar a day and in Vietnam, the number is less than 10 million but you still you think you guys are all rich and powerful. Good joke there.
> 
> Relations with other ASEAN member? Well, things get bumpy in Vietnam but I assure you, it could not get as hot as Malaysia-Indonesia relation.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you know something new about "US President Trumant and US marine" involvement in Southeast Asia and surrounding regions that see the lost of US servicemen defending France colonial, Chinese Nationalist and various puppet government back in the old days? Please share us your wisdom.
> 
> 
> 
> The right to hope for a better future is the right of each person. For example, I bet the average Indonesian would dream that:
> 1/Someone do something with the rebels that slaughter us citizen like animals every day
> 2/ Someone do something with the pirate that steal our stuff every time our ship get near Malacca Strait
> 3/ Someone do something with the policeman that locks us in the same cage with a god damn snake without evidence
> 
> After like what, 2-4 pages of constant bickering, it seem that the mind of the Indonesian in here are running low on ideas. First they try to boast their pride with baseless reasons then switch to a mix of ethic slurs and wartime sayings (with a whole lot of mirror crap in between) and end up with meme and "hahaha...ha...ha...ha...dream"
> 
> I'm game at anytime, Indonesian boys. We play this game until you guys crawl your pathetic A-S-S back to whatever hole you Indonesian come from and stay there for good. There is no way in hell you guys get to have the last words in OUR thread.


and btw superman we live in place called earth LOL


----------



## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> Lol, look at yours much of your budget goes for army and the corruption Vietcong generals did, and as i said your country goes old while staying poor and at the same time made problem with most of your neighbours


Ok we will see who laughs at the end of the day. You can stick to burning the forest.here, from the news today: Vietnamese carmaker Vinfast has started mass production of cars. The top L model can run 300 kmh. Oh among the news: 4,000 frigate or more heavier warships are coming.











Launching 2 new warships of Spa 4207 class
















Will be a nice ship for the Navy: 4,000 ton frigate






The Japanese are to deliver 6 new built 1,500 tons patrol ships worth $320 million.






Communication equipment from Viettel

Reactions: Like Like:
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## striver44

Viet said:


> Ok we will see who laughs at the end of the day. You can stick to burning the forest.here, from the news today: Vietnamese carmaker Vinfast has started mass production of cars. The top L model can run 300 kmh. Oh among the news: 4,000 frigate or more heavier warships are coming.
> 
> View attachment 544881
> 
> 
> View attachment 544883
> 
> 
> Launching 2 new warships of Spa 4207 class
> 
> View attachment 544885
> 
> 
> View attachment 544887
> 
> 
> View attachment 544889
> 
> 
> Will be a nice ship for the Navy: 4,000 ton frigate
> 
> View attachment 544892
> 
> 
> The Japanese are to deliver 6 new built 1,500 tons patrol ships worth $320 million.
> 
> View attachment 544897
> 
> 
> Communication equipment from Viettel
> 
> View attachment 544900
> 
> 
> View attachment 544903
> 
> 
> View attachment 544905


what's the point of showing off cars at us, when we are the top 2 largest car manufacturers in SE Asia and we produce much more ships in our shipyard than yours??????



Aqsuperman said:


> It seems that your blood is boiling to the point that your veins are about to explode as the number of grammar errors in your sentence is increasing by the minute but hey, I'm no grammar nazi so let get this show rolling everyone.
> 
> - Before the colonial period, countries in Southeast Asia beat up each other from time no time while grabbing land, there's no helping that. But in the post-colonial period, things change as people value the integrity of their nation more. The way Indonesia annexed Papua and invaded East Timor clearly indicate that Indonesia is far from a side that simply wants to protect their country. You feel that Indonesia is a country that upholds the moral code in the region? Let Aceh and Papua hold a vote regarding their independence and we shall see what happen.
> 
> - Chinese? Oh no worry. We Vietnamese meet them every day in South China Sea (which is a name that leaves a bad taste in my mouth). So we have ample experience at dealing with our northern neighbor, you don't have to worry about us
> 
> - Do what you believe to be right as I don't like to be someone that tells you the "best way" to behave. But remember this: Too eager to shoot others? Then others might not be that willing to let things pass the next time you mess up
> 
> 
> 
> So you are both a F-A-G and a meme boy? Good to know
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see...
> 
> Vietnam People Armed Forces in 2018 boast the 9th numerous military in the world with T-90 tanks, Scud missiles, Kilo submarine, Sukhoi aircraft, Gepard Frigates and plenty of goods from other countries tries. The budget is estimated to be above 7.8 billion US dollars per year which includes the costs of various military-civil services.
> 
> What about Indonesia and their almighty army?
> 
> - Piracy in Indonesia: The Navy seems to be formed for parades as they can do crap about pirates
> - Rebel in Indonesia: The Army never fall behind their Army counterpart in term of uselessness as rebels roam the land killing people left and right with near-impunity.
> - Human right in Indonesia: Now this is funny. Vietnam is a "communist" country so Indonesia must be way ahead of Vietnam when it comes to human right, right? Oh wait, we are in the fcking same group with UN Human Right Commission blasting us with complaints every year
> 
> Old and poor? The more you speak show how ignorant you are. One Google query with keyword "Vietnam economic" should tell you everything you must know about us. But as a narrow-minded Indonesian, your feeble brain fail to take in information that don't match your Stone Age belief. More than 20 million Indonesian live with less than a dollar a day and in Vietnam, the number is less than 10 million but you still you think you guys are all rich and powerful. Good joke there.
> 
> Relations with other ASEAN member? Well, things get bumpy in Vietnam but I assure you, it could not get as hot as Malaysia-Indonesia relation.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you know something new about "US President Trumant and US marine" involvement in Southeast Asia and surrounding regions that see the lost of US servicemen defending France colonial, Chinese Nationalist and various puppet government back in the old days? Please share us your wisdom.
> 
> 
> 
> The right to hope for a better future is the right of each person. For example, I bet the average Indonesian would dream that:
> 1/Someone do something with the rebels that slaughter us citizen like animals every day
> 2/ Someone do something with the pirate that steal our stuff every time our ship get near Malacca Strait
> 3/ Someone do something with the policeman that locks us in the same cage with a god damn snake without evidence
> 
> After like what, 2-4 pages of constant bickering, it seem that the mind of the Indonesian in here are running low on ideas. First they try to boast their pride with baseless reasons then switch to a mix of ethic slurs and wartime sayings (with a whole lot of mirror crap in between) and end up with meme and "hahaha...ha...ha...ha...dream"
> 
> I'm game at anytime, Indonesian boys. We play this game until you guys crawl your pathetic A-S-S back to whatever hole you Indonesian come from and stay there for good. There is no way in hell you guys get to have the last words in OUR thread.


oooooooooooooooooooooohh yes, Vietnam boasts world 9th most numerous army with very very very advanced T90,scud missiles, gepard class frigate and other hyped up russian weaponry LOL we are so scared that we took hundreds and hundreds of their fishing boats and burned them all while we wait and watch those scary vietcong armed forces came into action, which they never dare. hahahaha



Aqsuperman said:


> - Before the colonial period, countries in Southeast Asia beat up each other from time no time while grabbing land, there's no helping that. But in the post-colonial period, things change as people value the integrity of their nation more. The way Indonesia annexed Papua and invaded East Timor clearly indicate that Indonesia is far from a side that simply wants to protect their country. You feel that Indonesia is a country that upholds the moral code in the region? Let Aceh and Papua hold a vote regarding their independence and we shall see what happen.


Im sorry cambodia, Vietnam respects your national integrity so much.much sad



Viet said:


> Ok we will see who laughs at the end of the day. You can stick to burning the forest.here, from the news today: Vietnamese carmaker Vinfast has started mass production of cars. The top L model can run 300 kmh. Oh among the news: 4,000 frigate or more heavier warships are coming.
> 
> View attachment 544881
> 
> 
> View attachment 544883


Thats a nice private enterprise you have there, it shows that communism is a failed product and whoever stand by it is actually a hypocrite (just like most viet forum members). I bet uncle Ho will be sad.


----------



## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> oooooooooooooooooooooohh yes, Vietnam boasts world 9th most numerous army with very very very advanced T90,scud missiles, gepard class frigate and other hyped up russian weaponry LOL we are so scared that we took hundreds and hundreds of their fishing boats and burned them all while we wait and watch those scary vietcong armed forces came into action, which they never dare. hahahaha


Wow...but Im not surprise when u guys have same thinking wt Pol Pot when believing that VN is busy to counter CN-US, so we would not dare to attack Khmer Rouge .

Just wait ,dude. Never say never. Pol pot wt full CN's support was wiped put in just 1 week in 1979..


----------



## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> Wow...but Im not surprise when u guys have same thinking wt Pol Pot when believing that VN is busy to counter CN-US, so we would not dare to attack Khmer Rouge .
> 
> Just wait ,dude. Never say never. Pol pot wt full CN's support was wiped put in just 1 week in 1979..


Full china what?????Cambodia fell before china came into action about 3 months later hahahah, btw so much respect for national integrity by Vietnam forum member hahaha, hypocrite.



Aqsuperman said:


> It seems that your blood is boiling to the point that your veins are about to explode as the number of grammar errors in your sentence is increasing by the minute but hey, I'm no grammar nazi so let get this show rolling everyone.
> 
> What about Indonesia and their almighty army?
> 
> - Piracy in Indonesia: The Navy seems to be formed for parades as they can do crap about pirates


*wot>??????????*
*The Hunt for the Fish Pirates who Exploit the Sea*

For 10 years, a rogue fishing vessel and its crew plundered the world’s oceans, escaping repeated attempts of capture. Then a dramatic pursuit across the high seas finally netted the one that got away.

By Richard Gray
18 February 2019
In the haze of an overcast April afternoon, the rust-stained hull of the Andrey Dolgov slapped its way through the ocean swell, oily water gushing from the ship’s waterlogged bilge as it made a desperate attempt to flee.

Pursued by a sleek, heavily armed naval patrol boat, the ungainly fishing vessel had little hope of escape. A drone and surveillance aircraft circled overhead while the Indonesian navy ship bore quickly down, closing a trap that had been months in the making. The crew of the Andrey Dolgov surrendered.

It seems hard to believe that this creaking, corroded vessel was one of the most wanted on the high seas. Yet it slipped through the authorities’ fingers on several occasions and managed to elude ships sent to chase it across the ocean.

The Andrey Dolgov, or STS-50 or Sea Breez 1 as it also sometimes called itself, had been plundering the oceans of their most valuable living resource – fish. It was part of an international organised criminal network that thrives between the blurred lines of maritime law and on the corruption of officials.

The operation to capture the vessel and its crew was the culmination of months of international cooperation between police and maritime authorities, painstaking detective work and satellite tracking worthy of a spy thriller.

“The captain and the crew were shocked to have been caught,” says Andreas Aditya Salim, part of the presidential taskforce in Indonesia that led the operation to snare the Andrey Dolgov. “They tried to say they did not go fishing as the refrigerator and other parts of the vessel were broken.”




The Andrey Dolgov, also known as STS-50, had been fishing illegally in the Southern Ocean for years before it was captured (Credit: Sea Shepherd)

When Indonesian naval officers boarded the ship after ambushing it at the mouth of the Strait of Malacca, a major shipping lane between the Malay Peninsula and the Indonesian island of Sumatra, they found a huge stack of 600 finely meshed gill nets that could stretch up to 18 miles (around 29km) in length if deployed.

In a single trip the nets allowed those on board to haul up $6m (£4.56m) worth of fish, illegally taking it ashore where it was either sold on the black market or mixed with legal catches for sale. Ultimately the fish ends up on supermarket shelves, in restaurants and on people’s tables. _(Watch the video below on the mission to catch the FV Viking)_

“Approximately 20% of all global catch is illegal, unreported or unregulated,” explains Katie St John Glew, a marine biologist at the National Oceanography Centre at the University of Southampton. And the impacts are widespread, hurting the fish stocks themselves, the fishing industry and consumer trust. “If illegal fishing ultimately could result in stocks collapsing, this will then affect the livelihood of fishers across the globe.”

Over the 10 years or so it is thought to have been operating illegally, the Andrey Dolgov is estimated to have looted up to $50m (£38m) worth of fish from the oceans

Over the 10 years or so it is thought to have been operating illegally, the Andrey Dolgov is estimated to have looted up to $50m (£38m) worth of fish from the oceans. With that kind of money to be made, it is easy to see why it illegal fishing is a tempting enterprise for criminal organisations.

“These vessels operate in international waters outside the jurisdiction of nation states,” says Alistair McDonnell, part of the fisheries crime team at Interpol who helped coordinate the hunt for the Andrey Dolgov. “This is something that the criminals exploit.”




Patagonian toothfish are highly prized in restaurants around the world, where they are often marketted as Chilean sea bass (Credit: Christopher Jones/NOAA)

But the effect of this exploitation runs deeper than an opportunity for criminals to make money. It is often involves the corruption of public officials, fraud, money laundering and slavery – many of the crews on board these vessels are forced labour, imprisoned on a boat out at sea, often thousands of miles from home.

Then there is the environmental impact.

“Illegal fishing is one of the greatest threats to sustainable fisheries,” explains Matthew Camilleri, head of fisheries at the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. “The fishing gear they use can also be very destructive to fragile ecosystems like coral reefs. This is why the international community is putting a lot of effort into combating it.”

The Andrey Dolgov did not begin its life as an illegal fishing vessel. Built in 1985, the 54m-long (178ft) vessel was constructed as a tuna longline fishing boat at the Kanasashi Zosen shipyards at the scenic port of Shimizu in Japan, in the shadow of the volcanic Mount Fuji. Sailing as the Shinsei Maru No 2, the 570-ton boat operated for years legally under the Japanese flag in the Pacific and Indian Oceans for the Japanese seafood company Maruha Nichiro Corporation.

The vessel then appears to have changed hands a number of times after 1995 before it ended up sailing under the Filipino flag as the Sun Tai 2 until about 2008 when it joined the Republic of Korea’s fishing fleet, changing hands at least four times in under a year to owners including a Mr Boo-In Park and the STD Fisheries Corporation.




Several kilometres of nets were found on board the Andrey Dolgov when Indonesian authorities boarded it (Credit: Sea Shepherd)

At some point between 2008 and 2015, the vessel appears to have been refitted as an Antarctic toothfish boat, capable of operating in the wild Southern Ocean and storing fish for long periods on board. Toothfish are highly prized in restaurants around the world, sometimes referred to as "white gold" due to their value, but require specific licenses to fish.

While the boat is suspected of having been fishing illegally for at least 10 years, it first came to the attention of the authorities on the international stage in October 2016 when Chinese officials found it trying to offload toothfish that had been caught illegally. By now the boat was called the Andrey Dolgov and was flying the Cambodian flag, operated by a company registered in Belize. A year earlier it had been photographed off the coast of Punta Arena, on the southern tip of Chile’s Patagonian region, indicating it had been fishing in the Southern Ocean.

But before the Chinese authorities could take further action, the vessel and its crew fled across the Indian Ocean. This time, however, the vessel had been listed as IUU – illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing. This meant when the crew tried to enter the port again in Mauritius it was denied entry.




The STS-50, which has links to Russian organised crime, highlights many of the problems faced by those who police global fisheries (Credit: Sea Shepherd)

By January 2017 the vessel had been renamed the Sea Breez 1 under a Togo flag. Togo later struck the vessel off the registry, but as it moved from port to port, and the vessel changed name again to AYDA. When it arrived at ports, the crew presented forged documents to obscure its identity and it claimed a to belong to at least eight different flag states including Togo, Nigeria and Bolivia.

They are essentially committing identity fraud by repeatedly falsifying their registry - Alistair McDonnell

“It’s a common tactic,” says McDonnell. “They are essentially committing identity fraud by repeatedly falsifying their registry. Only flag states have jurisdiction over vessels when they are more than 200 miles from a coast, but these vessels claim flags of states that have no fisheries legislation to cover it and are not subject to any international fisheries treaties.”

Illegal fishing vessels also regularly change the flags they fly, claiming nationalities of states that have denounced them.

“Coastal states may consider them a high-risk vessel, without the protection of a flag state, and therefore stateless,” says McDonnell.

Finally, in February 2018, the authorities caught up with the Andrey Dolgov again at a port in Madagascar when the captain of a vessel claiming to be the STS-50 provided a false International Marine Organisation number – which every vessel on the ocean above a certain size must have – and forged documents. Madagascar alerted the Convention for the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources, which regulates fishing in the Southern Ocean around Antarctica.




Satellite images and data allow fishing vessels to be tracked on the world's oceans so boats engaging in illegal activity can be identified (Credit: OceanMind)

Again, the boat and its crew fled, but this time they left a trail behind. The vessel had been fitted with an automatic transponder system, which is used to help prevent collisions between ships at sea. This automatic identification system, known as AIS, broadcasts a location signal that can be picked up by radio equipment and overhead satellites.

Simultaneously the vessel appeared to be off the coast of the Falklands, Fiji and Norway – thousands of miles apart

But there was a problem. When officials plugged the AIS identification number for the vessel into their system, they were presented with a spaghetti of tracks all over the world. Simultaneously the vessel appeared to be off the coast of the Falklands, Fiji and Norway – thousands of miles apart.

“They were obscuring their identity by spoofing their AIS,” explains Charles Kilgour, who at the time was senior fisheries analyst at OceanMind, a British non-profit organisation that analyses data from fishing vessels at sea. It was a technique that allowed the Andrey Dolgov to appear to be in almost 100 different locations at once.



The mission to catch Andrey Dolgov spanned the globe

But then its pursuers received another alert – the Andrey Dolgov had popped up just off the coast of Maputo, in Mozambique’s waters. An inspection team found fishing gear on board and forged registration documents. They officially “detained” the vessel, seizing its documents and the crew’s passports, but before they could investigate further, the Andrey Dolgov absconded, slipping through the fingers of the authorities again.

This time, however, Kilgour and his team had a positive identification of the exact time and location of the Andrey Dolgov. Using a passing satellite, they were able capture radar images of the fishing vessel while it was at anchorage off Maputo, helping them to clarify which of the AIS tracks they were seeing was the right one.




The international effort to capture the Andrey Dolgov after it escaped from custody twice resulted in a pursuit across the high seas (Credit: Sea Shepherd)

“We use algorithms to identify potential vessels from the synthetic aperture radar images,” says Kilgour, who now works for Global Fishing Watch, a Google-backed project to monitor fishing vessels around the world. “Any large metal vessel shows up quite clearly. Then we correlate that with the AIS data we have.”

The team at OceanMind also use infrared satellite imaging, which allows them to pick up lights from fishing vessels at night. With the additional information they now had, they were able to pinpoint which of the AIS tracks belonged to the Andrey Dolgov.

Meanwhile a vessel owned by marine conservation organisation Sea Shepherd, which had been taking part in a joint operation in Tanzania with other African fishing authorities, took up the pursuit. Under the command of the Tanzanian navy, it chased the Andrey Dolgov for several days towards the Seychelles, sending back images of it from a drone, further helping to confirm its identity.

“The fishing vessel left Mozambique’s waters to find refuge on the high seas,” says Peter Hammarstedt, director of campaigns at Sea Shepherd. “What was amazing was the Tanzanian authorities decided to leave their own waters to pursue it even though it hadn’t committed crime in Tanzania or entered its waters.”

Without the authority to board the vessel outside Tanzanian waters, however, they were eventually forced to give up the chase.




The authorities in Indonesia have taken a zero tolerance approach to illegal fishing, destroying another notorious illegal fishing vessel, the F/V Viking (Credit: Getty Images)

Kilgour and his team gave Interpol updates about the fleeing fishing boat’s position every four hours, using its speed and direction to calculate where it might be heading.

For most states, there is a reluctance to give chase and seize rogue vessels like this. The jurisdictional quagmire makes it tricky, but then there is also the expense of such a seizure. The vessels – often badly maintained – can be a pollution risk, they often need to be repaired, the catch on board needs to be disposed of safely and the crew need to be repatriated. Pests can be a problem on board and you must also post 24-hour security.

“Even developed countries are reluctant to do this,” says Bradley Soule, chief fisheries analyst at OceanMind. “So, it is hardly surprising that developing nations would rather not.”

The Andrey Dolgov was heading towards one of the few nations that aggressively targets illegal fishing vessels

Fortunately, the Andrey Dolgov was heading towards one of the few nations that aggressively targets illegal fishing vessels. Indonesia, under the leadership of the country’s minister for maritime affairs and fisheries Susi Pudjiastuti, has seized and destroyed 488 illegal fishing vessels since 2014. Among those was another Antarctic toothfish poacher, the F/V Viking, which was the last of a notorious group of fishing vessels known as the Bandit Six, operating illegally in the Southern Ocean, thousands of miles from Indonesia’s waters.

To make the point that illegal fishing would not be tolerated, no matter where it took place, Pudjiastuti had the F/V Viking spectacularly blown up on a sandbank off the shore of Pangandaran, West Java. With another notorious fish pirate heading into its waters, Pudjiastuti gave the Indonesian navy her endorsement to order an interception.

But as the vessel came into the busy Malacca straits, the satellite signal from its AIS transponder was lost among the mess of other signals in the area. Instead the Indonesian navy had to rely upon the calculations made using the information supplied by Kilgour and his team to estimate where the fishing boat might be. They dispatched the KRI Simeulue 2, a coastal patrol boat, to stop it.

“The last 72 hours saw sleepless nights for everyone involved,” says Interpol’s McDonnell.

As the Andrey Dolgov came into range, however, the Simeulue 2 and land based coastguard stations began picking up its AIS signal, allowing them to home in on the rogue vessel. Once they had visually confirmed the identity, the Simeulue 2 raced alongside around 60 miles from the southeast side of Weh Island, Sebang, ordering the captain of the fishing vessel to stop so he could be boarded.




Indonesia has destroyed hundreds of illegal fishing vessels by burning them, or sinking them off shore (Credit: Getty Images)

Once aboard, the naval officers found the captain and five other officers to be Russian and Ukranian. The rest of the crew consisted 20 Indonesians who later claimed they had no idea the vessel was fishing illegally. They were treated by the authorities as if were victims of human trafficking and slavery after being duped into working on board.

The captain, a Russian citizen named as Aleksandr Matveev, was later sentenced to four months in prison and fined Rp200 million (£10,800) after being found guilty of illegal fishing. The other Russian and Ukranian offers were deported to their home countries.

“After the inspection, we discovered that F/V STS-50 violated Indonesian fisheries law,” says Pudjiastuti. “Illegal fishing is a public enemy and every state should provide assistance in terms of eliminating it.”

But the investigation has not stopped there. Specialised digital forensics teams have pored over the wealth of intelligence contained within the fishing vessel’s bridge, its on-board computer systems, navigational instruments and the captain’s mobile phone.

It is helping the international authorities piece together the wider criminal web that the vessel operated in. While the Andrey Dolgov was registered as belonging to Red Star Company Ltd, domiciled in Belize, the suspected owner is a Russian citizen who has an office in South Korea and has conducted several bank transactions in New York. The boat is thought to have links to Russian organised crime.

Interpol are now helping law enforcement agencies in a number of countries to track down the criminals who operated the Andrey Dolgov, counterfeited its documents, helped to launder its catches and the money it made.




Many of the crew on board the Andrey Dolgov, or STS-50 as it had re-named itself, were suspected of being forced labour (Credit: Getty Images)

“The work doesn’t stop with the capture of the vessel,” says McDonnell. “There are still quite a lot of questions to be answered. These organisations are tightknit, often run within families or as a “dark” business disguised with legitimate companies. We are looking at how the criminals set their business models up, how they turn the fish into money. Until recently they have been able to operate with almost complete impunity. That is changing now.”

OceanMind too are developing new technology to help track down other vessels that try to hide or obscure their identity more easily. They will combine this with the artificial intelligence it uses to help identify vessels and determine whether the boats have permission to be operating in the areas where they are.

Others too are developing ways of combating illegal fishing. Katie St John Glew at Southampton, for example, is developing ways to use the chemical isotopes in fish to trace in which part of the ocean fish were caught. These isotope tracers come from the food the fish were feeding on before they were caught, and so could be used to identify products that are on sale but were caught illegally.

As for the Andrey Dolgov itself, it could soon play a role in catching the criminals like those who operated it. Rather than blow it up, Pudjiastuti decided to have the boat converted so it can join the Indonesian fisheries enforcement fleet. It will serve as a symbol of the country’s war on illegal fishing and as a message to the fish pirates – they are running out of places to hide.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190213-the-dramatic-hunt-for-the-fish-pirates-exploiting-our-seas


----------



## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> Full china what?????Cambodia fell before china came into action about 3 months later hahahah, btw so much respect for national integrity by Vietnam forum member hahaha, hypocrite.
> 
> 
> *wot>??????????*
> *The Hunt for the Fish Pirates who Exploit the Sea*
> 
> For 10 years, a rogue fishing vessel and its crew plundered the world’s oceans, escaping repeated attempts of capture. Then a dramatic pursuit across the high seas finally netted the one that got away.
> 
> By Richard Gray
> 18 February 2019
> In the haze of an overcast April afternoon, the rust-stained hull of the Andrey Dolgov slapped its way through the ocean swell, oily water gushing from the ship’s waterlogged bilge as it made a desperate attempt to flee.
> 
> Pursued by a sleek, heavily armed naval patrol boat, the ungainly fishing vessel had little hope of escape. A drone and surveillance aircraft circled overhead while the Indonesian navy ship bore quickly down, closing a trap that had been months in the making. The crew of the Andrey Dolgov surrendered.
> 
> It seems hard to believe that this creaking, corroded vessel was one of the most wanted on the high seas. Yet it slipped through the authorities’ fingers on several occasions and managed to elude ships sent to chase it across the ocean.
> 
> The Andrey Dolgov, or STS-50 or Sea Breez 1 as it also sometimes called itself, had been plundering the oceans of their most valuable living resource – fish. It was part of an international organised criminal network that thrives between the blurred lines of maritime law and on the corruption of officials.
> 
> The operation to capture the vessel and its crew was the culmination of months of international cooperation between police and maritime authorities, painstaking detective work and satellite tracking worthy of a spy thriller.
> 
> “The captain and the crew were shocked to have been caught,” says Andreas Aditya Salim, part of the presidential taskforce in Indonesia that led the operation to snare the Andrey Dolgov. “They tried to say they did not go fishing as the refrigerator and other parts of the vessel were broken.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Andrey Dolgov, also known as STS-50, had been fishing illegally in the Southern Ocean for years before it was captured (Credit: Sea Shepherd)
> 
> When Indonesian naval officers boarded the ship after ambushing it at the mouth of the Strait of Malacca, a major shipping lane between the Malay Peninsula and the Indonesian island of Sumatra, they found a huge stack of 600 finely meshed gill nets that could stretch up to 18 miles (around 29km) in length if deployed.
> 
> In a single trip the nets allowed those on board to haul up $6m (£4.56m) worth of fish, illegally taking it ashore where it was either sold on the black market or mixed with legal catches for sale. Ultimately the fish ends up on supermarket shelves, in restaurants and on people’s tables. _(Watch the video below on the mission to catch the FV Viking)_
> 
> “Approximately 20% of all global catch is illegal, unreported or unregulated,” explains Katie St John Glew, a marine biologist at the National Oceanography Centre at the University of Southampton. And the impacts are widespread, hurting the fish stocks themselves, the fishing industry and consumer trust. “If illegal fishing ultimately could result in stocks collapsing, this will then affect the livelihood of fishers across the globe.”
> 
> Over the 10 years or so it is thought to have been operating illegally, the Andrey Dolgov is estimated to have looted up to $50m (£38m) worth of fish from the oceans
> 
> Over the 10 years or so it is thought to have been operating illegally, the Andrey Dolgov is estimated to have looted up to $50m (£38m) worth of fish from the oceans. With that kind of money to be made, it is easy to see why it illegal fishing is a tempting enterprise for criminal organisations.
> 
> “These vessels operate in international waters outside the jurisdiction of nation states,” says Alistair McDonnell, part of the fisheries crime team at Interpol who helped coordinate the hunt for the Andrey Dolgov. “This is something that the criminals exploit.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Patagonian toothfish are highly prized in restaurants around the world, where they are often marketted as Chilean sea bass (Credit: Christopher Jones/NOAA)
> 
> But the effect of this exploitation runs deeper than an opportunity for criminals to make money. It is often involves the corruption of public officials, fraud, money laundering and slavery – many of the crews on board these vessels are forced labour, imprisoned on a boat out at sea, often thousands of miles from home.
> 
> Then there is the environmental impact.
> 
> “Illegal fishing is one of the greatest threats to sustainable fisheries,” explains Matthew Camilleri, head of fisheries at the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. “The fishing gear they use can also be very destructive to fragile ecosystems like coral reefs. This is why the international community is putting a lot of effort into combating it.”
> 
> The Andrey Dolgov did not begin its life as an illegal fishing vessel. Built in 1985, the 54m-long (178ft) vessel was constructed as a tuna longline fishing boat at the Kanasashi Zosen shipyards at the scenic port of Shimizu in Japan, in the shadow of the volcanic Mount Fuji. Sailing as the Shinsei Maru No 2, the 570-ton boat operated for years legally under the Japanese flag in the Pacific and Indian Oceans for the Japanese seafood company Maruha Nichiro Corporation.
> 
> The vessel then appears to have changed hands a number of times after 1995 before it ended up sailing under the Filipino flag as the Sun Tai 2 until about 2008 when it joined the Republic of Korea’s fishing fleet, changing hands at least four times in under a year to owners including a Mr Boo-In Park and the STD Fisheries Corporation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Several kilometres of nets were found on board the Andrey Dolgov when Indonesian authorities boarded it (Credit: Sea Shepherd)
> 
> At some point between 2008 and 2015, the vessel appears to have been refitted as an Antarctic toothfish boat, capable of operating in the wild Southern Ocean and storing fish for long periods on board. Toothfish are highly prized in restaurants around the world, sometimes referred to as "white gold" due to their value, but require specific licenses to fish.
> 
> While the boat is suspected of having been fishing illegally for at least 10 years, it first came to the attention of the authorities on the international stage in October 2016 when Chinese officials found it trying to offload toothfish that had been caught illegally. By now the boat was called the Andrey Dolgov and was flying the Cambodian flag, operated by a company registered in Belize. A year earlier it had been photographed off the coast of Punta Arena, on the southern tip of Chile’s Patagonian region, indicating it had been fishing in the Southern Ocean.
> 
> But before the Chinese authorities could take further action, the vessel and its crew fled across the Indian Ocean. This time, however, the vessel had been listed as IUU – illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing. This meant when the crew tried to enter the port again in Mauritius it was denied entry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The STS-50, which has links to Russian organised crime, highlights many of the problems faced by those who police global fisheries (Credit: Sea Shepherd)
> 
> By January 2017 the vessel had been renamed the Sea Breez 1 under a Togo flag. Togo later struck the vessel off the registry, but as it moved from port to port, and the vessel changed name again to AYDA. When it arrived at ports, the crew presented forged documents to obscure its identity and it claimed a to belong to at least eight different flag states including Togo, Nigeria and Bolivia.
> 
> They are essentially committing identity fraud by repeatedly falsifying their registry - Alistair McDonnell
> 
> “It’s a common tactic,” says McDonnell. “They are essentially committing identity fraud by repeatedly falsifying their registry. Only flag states have jurisdiction over vessels when they are more than 200 miles from a coast, but these vessels claim flags of states that have no fisheries legislation to cover it and are not subject to any international fisheries treaties.”
> 
> Illegal fishing vessels also regularly change the flags they fly, claiming nationalities of states that have denounced them.
> 
> “Coastal states may consider them a high-risk vessel, without the protection of a flag state, and therefore stateless,” says McDonnell.
> 
> Finally, in February 2018, the authorities caught up with the Andrey Dolgov again at a port in Madagascar when the captain of a vessel claiming to be the STS-50 provided a false International Marine Organisation number – which every vessel on the ocean above a certain size must have – and forged documents. Madagascar alerted the Convention for the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources, which regulates fishing in the Southern Ocean around Antarctica.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satellite images and data allow fishing vessels to be tracked on the world's oceans so boats engaging in illegal activity can be identified (Credit: OceanMind)
> 
> Again, the boat and its crew fled, but this time they left a trail behind. The vessel had been fitted with an automatic transponder system, which is used to help prevent collisions between ships at sea. This automatic identification system, known as AIS, broadcasts a location signal that can be picked up by radio equipment and overhead satellites.
> 
> Simultaneously the vessel appeared to be off the coast of the Falklands, Fiji and Norway – thousands of miles apart
> 
> But there was a problem. When officials plugged the AIS identification number for the vessel into their system, they were presented with a spaghetti of tracks all over the world. Simultaneously the vessel appeared to be off the coast of the Falklands, Fiji and Norway – thousands of miles apart.
> 
> “They were obscuring their identity by spoofing their AIS,” explains Charles Kilgour, who at the time was senior fisheries analyst at OceanMind, a British non-profit organisation that analyses data from fishing vessels at sea. It was a technique that allowed the Andrey Dolgov to appear to be in almost 100 different locations at once.
> 
> 
> 
> The mission to catch Andrey Dolgov spanned the globe
> 
> But then its pursuers received another alert – the Andrey Dolgov had popped up just off the coast of Maputo, in Mozambique’s waters. An inspection team found fishing gear on board and forged registration documents. They officially “detained” the vessel, seizing its documents and the crew’s passports, but before they could investigate further, the Andrey Dolgov absconded, slipping through the fingers of the authorities again.
> 
> This time, however, Kilgour and his team had a positive identification of the exact time and location of the Andrey Dolgov. Using a passing satellite, they were able capture radar images of the fishing vessel while it was at anchorage off Maputo, helping them to clarify which of the AIS tracks they were seeing was the right one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The international effort to capture the Andrey Dolgov after it escaped from custody twice resulted in a pursuit across the high seas (Credit: Sea Shepherd)
> 
> “We use algorithms to identify potential vessels from the synthetic aperture radar images,” says Kilgour, who now works for Global Fishing Watch, a Google-backed project to monitor fishing vessels around the world. “Any large metal vessel shows up quite clearly. Then we correlate that with the AIS data we have.”
> 
> The team at OceanMind also use infrared satellite imaging, which allows them to pick up lights from fishing vessels at night. With the additional information they now had, they were able to pinpoint which of the AIS tracks belonged to the Andrey Dolgov.
> 
> Meanwhile a vessel owned by marine conservation organisation Sea Shepherd, which had been taking part in a joint operation in Tanzania with other African fishing authorities, took up the pursuit. Under the command of the Tanzanian navy, it chased the Andrey Dolgov for several days towards the Seychelles, sending back images of it from a drone, further helping to confirm its identity.
> 
> “The fishing vessel left Mozambique’s waters to find refuge on the high seas,” says Peter Hammarstedt, director of campaigns at Sea Shepherd. “What was amazing was the Tanzanian authorities decided to leave their own waters to pursue it even though it hadn’t committed crime in Tanzania or entered its waters.”
> 
> Without the authority to board the vessel outside Tanzanian waters, however, they were eventually forced to give up the chase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The authorities in Indonesia have taken a zero tolerance approach to illegal fishing, destroying another notorious illegal fishing vessel, the F/V Viking (Credit: Getty Images)
> 
> Kilgour and his team gave Interpol updates about the fleeing fishing boat’s position every four hours, using its speed and direction to calculate where it might be heading.
> 
> For most states, there is a reluctance to give chase and seize rogue vessels like this. The jurisdictional quagmire makes it tricky, but then there is also the expense of such a seizure. The vessels – often badly maintained – can be a pollution risk, they often need to be repaired, the catch on board needs to be disposed of safely and the crew need to be repatriated. Pests can be a problem on board and you must also post 24-hour security.
> 
> “Even developed countries are reluctant to do this,” says Bradley Soule, chief fisheries analyst at OceanMind. “So, it is hardly surprising that developing nations would rather not.”
> 
> The Andrey Dolgov was heading towards one of the few nations that aggressively targets illegal fishing vessels
> 
> Fortunately, the Andrey Dolgov was heading towards one of the few nations that aggressively targets illegal fishing vessels. Indonesia, under the leadership of the country’s minister for maritime affairs and fisheries Susi Pudjiastuti, has seized and destroyed 488 illegal fishing vessels since 2014. Among those was another Antarctic toothfish poacher, the F/V Viking, which was the last of a notorious group of fishing vessels known as the Bandit Six, operating illegally in the Southern Ocean, thousands of miles from Indonesia’s waters.
> 
> To make the point that illegal fishing would not be tolerated, no matter where it took place, Pudjiastuti had the F/V Viking spectacularly blown up on a sandbank off the shore of Pangandaran, West Java. With another notorious fish pirate heading into its waters, Pudjiastuti gave the Indonesian navy her endorsement to order an interception.
> 
> But as the vessel came into the busy Malacca straits, the satellite signal from its AIS transponder was lost among the mess of other signals in the area. Instead the Indonesian navy had to rely upon the calculations made using the information supplied by Kilgour and his team to estimate where the fishing boat might be. They dispatched the KRI Simeulue 2, a coastal patrol boat, to stop it.
> 
> “The last 72 hours saw sleepless nights for everyone involved,” says Interpol’s McDonnell.
> 
> As the Andrey Dolgov came into range, however, the Simeulue 2 and land based coastguard stations began picking up its AIS signal, allowing them to home in on the rogue vessel. Once they had visually confirmed the identity, the Simeulue 2 raced alongside around 60 miles from the southeast side of Weh Island, Sebang, ordering the captain of the fishing vessel to stop so he could be boarded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesia has destroyed hundreds of illegal fishing vessels by burning them, or sinking them off shore (Credit: Getty Images)
> 
> Once aboard, the naval officers found the captain and five other officers to be Russian and Ukranian. The rest of the crew consisted 20 Indonesians who later claimed they had no idea the vessel was fishing illegally. They were treated by the authorities as if were victims of human trafficking and slavery after being duped into working on board.
> 
> The captain, a Russian citizen named as Aleksandr Matveev, was later sentenced to four months in prison and fined Rp200 million (£10,800) after being found guilty of illegal fishing. The other Russian and Ukranian offers were deported to their home countries.
> 
> “After the inspection, we discovered that F/V STS-50 violated Indonesian fisheries law,” says Pudjiastuti. “Illegal fishing is a public enemy and every state should provide assistance in terms of eliminating it.”
> 
> But the investigation has not stopped there. Specialised digital forensics teams have pored over the wealth of intelligence contained within the fishing vessel’s bridge, its on-board computer systems, navigational instruments and the captain’s mobile phone.
> 
> It is helping the international authorities piece together the wider criminal web that the vessel operated in. While the Andrey Dolgov was registered as belonging to Red Star Company Ltd, domiciled in Belize, the suspected owner is a Russian citizen who has an office in South Korea and has conducted several bank transactions in New York. The boat is thought to have links to Russian organised crime.
> 
> Interpol are now helping law enforcement agencies in a number of countries to track down the criminals who operated the Andrey Dolgov, counterfeited its documents, helped to launder its catches and the money it made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many of the crew on board the Andrey Dolgov, or STS-50 as it had re-named itself, were suspected of being forced labour (Credit: Getty Images)
> 
> “The work doesn’t stop with the capture of the vessel,” says McDonnell. “There are still quite a lot of questions to be answered. These organisations are tightknit, often run within families or as a “dark” business disguised with legitimate companies. We are looking at how the criminals set their business models up, how they turn the fish into money. Until recently they have been able to operate with almost complete impunity. That is changing now.”
> 
> OceanMind too are developing new technology to help track down other vessels that try to hide or obscure their identity more easily. They will combine this with the artificial intelligence it uses to help identify vessels and determine whether the boats have permission to be operating in the areas where they are.
> 
> Others too are developing ways of combating illegal fishing. Katie St John Glew at Southampton, for example, is developing ways to use the chemical isotopes in fish to trace in which part of the ocean fish were caught. These isotope tracers come from the food the fish were feeding on before they were caught, and so could be used to identify products that are on sale but were caught illegally.
> 
> As for the Andrey Dolgov itself, it could soon play a role in catching the criminals like those who operated it. Rather than blow it up, Pudjiastuti decided to have the boat converted so it can join the Indonesian fisheries enforcement fleet. It will serve as a symbol of the country’s war on illegal fishing and as a message to the fish pirates – they are running out of places to hide.
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190213-the-dramatic-hunt-for-the-fish-pirates-exploiting-our-seas


Pls read the CN's support to Pol Pot if u care .

Btw, VN got yellow warning from EU when fishing illegaly in ID's water, but we wont have yellow warning when fishing in disputed zone and we r free to attack any pirates making trouble to our fishing men in that area.

We only use coast guard forces instead of real warships like ID in disputed zone .the coast guard ships equiped wt GPS navigating system,so they wont violate ID water like u guys accusing to VN guard ship.


----------



## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> We only use coast guard forces instead of real warships like ID in disputed zone .the coast guard ships equiped wt GPS navigating system,so they wont violate ID water like u guys accusing to VN guard ship.


we used to use small patrol boats,

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> we used to use small patrol boats,


Lets solve the disputed water in civil maner. No one support a country using warship to arrest fishing boats in disputed water

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Aqsuperman

barjo said:


> damn... i give u a clue, truman doctrine.. and see did a cave man could read LOL



Oh right, let's see...

"Critics of the policy have observed that the governments of Greece and Turkey were themselves far from democratic at this time, and neither were facing Soviet subversion in the spring of 1949. Historian Eric Foner writes that the Doctrine "set a precedent for American assistance to anticommunist regimes throughout the world, no matter how undemocratic"

A doctrine that fight communist using methods that are initially designated to be "unsavory practices only used by the communist". Yup, sound like a shining example of democracy to me. 



barjo said:


> and btw superman we live in place called earth LOL



And I think I lost you with that sentence...What was that supposed to mean?



striver44 said:


> oooooooooooooooooooooohh yes, Vietnam boasts world 9th most numerous army with very very very advanced T90,scud missiles, gepard class frigate and other hyped up russian weaponry LOL we are so scared that we took hundreds and hundreds of their fishing boats and burned them all while we wait and watch those scary vietcong armed forces came into action, which they never dare. hahahaha



Unlike Indonesian with those trigger-happy troops and retard Internet users, we Vietnamese value the ability to use brain in every action and avoid resorting to live ammunition. But let put this into a perspective that you feeble brain could understand

Indonesia possesses a military that could scare Vietnam into submission by capturing Vietnam fishing boat, opening fire against Vietnam Coast Guard and so on? Then why the heck Vietnam has no active terrorist/insurrection why Indonesia itself is filled to the brim with those? Simple: Vietnam crush terrorist while Indonesia focus on capturing unarmed fishing boats. Too eager to shoot shooting boats but could not put a stop to few bands of pirates and terrorists? Yeah, the word for that kind of action is: COWARDICE. 

And for the love of god, use sentences that people that learn English are able to comprehend. Reading your mess of words slowly decreases my IQ.



striver44 said:


> *wot>??????????*



Fish pirate? Oh I think your brain lacks common senses. Here is what I mean about piracy in Indonesia.

"Piracy in Indonesia is not only notorious, but according to a survey conducted by the International Maritime Bureau, it was also the country sporting the highest rate of pirate attacks back in 2004, where it subsequently dropped to second place of the world's worst country of pirate attacks in 2008, finishing just behind Nigeria. However, Indonesia is still deemed the country with the world's most dangerous water due to its high piracy rate"

"The term 'Piracy in Indonesia' includes both cases of Indonesian pirates hijacking other cargo and tanks, as well as the high rate of practising piracy within the country itself. Approximately 50,000 vessels worth of the world's trade employ the Strait of Malacca annually, including oil from the Persian Gulf and manufactured goods to the Middle East and Suez Canal. The success that stems from this trade portal makes the Strait an ideal location for pirate attacks"

"The first group consisted of four Indonesian pirates who were being arrested where they confessed that they aided and abetted a larger syndicate that operated in the Strait of Malacca. The second group of attackers during that month included six Indonesian men who were being detained. They were suspects for a group of Indonesian pirates that allegedly boarded a merchant vessel in Singapore. During the attack, warning shots were being fired and the pirates fled the scene. It is believed that the group arrived from Batam, an island that was closely situated to the Strait."

Yeah, Indonesia Navy is doing a fantastic job. But as Indonesian pirates got guns (crappy ones but could still shoot) while Vietnamese fisherman don't have anything, it's easy to see which one is the easier target between the two.



striver44 said:


> we used to use small patrol boats,



"Patrol boats: with M2 Browning and 76mm gun for fisheries control duty? Now that is a wee bit like actual warships. How about we strap missile to our Coast Guard vessels and call them "patrol boat" as well? 

With the number of Indonesian trolls dropping by the minute, time to update on the T-90 delivery phase for Vietnam People Army. Look like our heavy tank transporters had a busy day at port.

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## Viet

striver44 said:


> what's the point of showing off cars at us, when we are the top 2 largest car manufacturers in SE Asia and we produce much more ships in our shipyard than yours??????
> 
> 
> oooooooooooooooooooooohh yes, Vietnam boasts world 9th most numerous army with very very very advanced T90,scud missiles, gepard class frigate and other hyped up russian weaponry LOL we are so scared that we took hundreds and hundreds of their fishing boats and burned them all while we wait and watch those scary vietcong armed forces came into action, which they never dare. hahahaha
> 
> 
> Im sorry cambodia, Vietnam respects your national integrity so much.much sad
> 
> 
> Thats a nice private enterprise you have there, it shows that communism is a failed product and whoever stand by it is actually a hypocrite (just like most viet forum members). I bet uncle Ho will be sad.


Why posting made-in-Vietnam cars here? Why do you post fishing dispute here in this military thread? You act as if your country survival depends on fishing.

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## warzone

barjo said:


> why those boat peoples goes in the sea instead? Are they affraid of VC going to rape and robb them so they take the chance for survival in the sea... whats the matter with your history lesson people? LoL



Escaping Viet Nam? Well you have China communist in the North, Laos communist and the murderous Khmer Rouge (and after their defeat in 1979 it's the Vnamese military occupation of Cambodia) on the West, and then you have the sea...where is the safest way to go smarty @barjo ? Me and my family went to the sea by boat, nothing fun here and I wish that to nobody what we and hundreds thousands went through...

Your lack of knowledge just show your limited intelligence. Let me remind you with a couple examples, the Syrians welcomed the Palestinian refugees for decades before they, themselves become refugees. Same go for the Venezuelans, they welcomed the Colombian who fled the civil war in the 60s till 2000s until the Venezuelans, themselves have to flee their own country for economic reasons.

Whatever is wars, natural disasters (remember tsunami 2003?) or economic crisis (do you still remember the Indonesian financial crisis and deadly riots in the 90s smarty?). Keep laughing loud smarty @barjo , because nobody know what will happen in the future and those tomorrow unlucky refugees could be you or your family one day and wish you to never come face to face with armed thugs when you are so vulnerable (hungry, tired, sickness) and defenseless and have nothing but only your clothes on...


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Oh right, let's see...
> 
> "Critics of the policy have observed that the governments of Greece and Turkey were themselves far from democratic at this time, and neither were facing Soviet subversion in the spring of 1949. Historian Eric Foner writes that the Doctrine "set a precedent for American assistance to anticommunist regimes throughout the world, no matter how undemocratic"
> 
> A doctrine that fight communist using methods that are initially designated to be "unsavory practices only used by the communist". Yup, sound like a shining example of democracy to me.
> 
> 
> 
> And I think I lost you with that sentence...What was that supposed to mean?
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike Indonesian with those trigger-happy troops and retard Internet users, we Vietnamese value the ability to use brain in every action and avoid resorting to live ammunition. But let put this into a perspective that you feeble brain could understand
> 
> Indonesia possesses a military that could scare Vietnam into submission by capturing Vietnam fishing boat, opening fire against Vietnam Coast Guard and so on? Then why the heck Vietnam has no active terrorist/insurrection why Indonesia itself is filled to the brim with those? Simple: Vietnam crush terrorist while Indonesia focus on capturing unarmed fishing boats. Too eager to shoot shooting boats but could not put a stop to few bands of pirates and terrorists? Yeah, the word for that kind of action is: COWARDICE.
> 
> And for the love of god, use sentences that people that learn English are able to comprehend. Reading your mess of words slowly decreases my IQ.
> 
> 
> 
> Fish pirate? Oh I think your brain lacks common senses. Here is what I mean about piracy in Indonesia.
> 
> "Piracy in Indonesia is not only notorious, but according to a survey conducted by the International Maritime Bureau, it was also the country sporting the highest rate of pirate attacks back in 2004, where it subsequently dropped to second place of the world's worst country of pirate attacks in 2008, finishing just behind Nigeria. However, Indonesia is still deemed the country with the world's most dangerous water due to its high piracy rate"
> 
> "The term 'Piracy in Indonesia' includes both cases of Indonesian pirates hijacking other cargo and tanks, as well as the high rate of practising piracy within the country itself. Approximately 50,000 vessels worth of the world's trade employ the Strait of Malacca annually, including oil from the Persian Gulf and manufactured goods to the Middle East and Suez Canal. The success that stems from this trade portal makes the Strait an ideal location for pirate attacks"
> 
> "The first group consisted of four Indonesian pirates who were being arrested where they confessed that they aided and abetted a larger syndicate that operated in the Strait of Malacca. The second group of attackers during that month included six Indonesian men who were being detained. They were suspects for a group of Indonesian pirates that allegedly boarded a merchant vessel in Singapore. During the attack, warning shots were being fired and the pirates fled the scene. It is believed that the group arrived from Batam, an island that was closely situated to the Strait."
> 
> Yeah, Indonesia Navy is doing a fantastic job. But as Indonesian pirates got guns (crappy ones but could still shoot) while Vietnamese fisherman don't have anything, it's easy to see which one is the easier target between the two.
> 
> 
> 
> "Patrol boats: with M2 Browning and 76mm gun for fisheries control duty? Now that is a wee bit like actual warships. How about we strap missile to our Coast Guard vessels and call them "patrol boat" as well?
> 
> With the number of Indonesian trolls dropping by the minute, time to update on the T-90 delivery phase for Vietnam People Army. Look like our heavy tank transporters had a busy day at port.


Not long ago they did bullshit of Asean leadership as if it is their birthright. Luckily they move on.Shooting at other be justified or not and leadership of a bloc do not fit together.


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## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> Lets solve the disputed water in civil maner. No one support a country using warship to arrest fishing boats in disputed water


Dont worry once our BAKAMLA got their hands on larger ships such as these




We sure will start to withdraw our warships,but till then . Be sure vietnam dont intimidate our law enforcement vessels anymore. Cheers



Aqsuperman said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> "Patrol boats: with M2 Browning and 76mm gun for fisheries control duty? Now that is a wee bit like actual warships. How about we strap missile to our Coast Guard vessels and call them "patrol boat" as well?


Well, we tried using small patrol boats once and the result= vietnam CG started harrasing those boats,so we let the fishing vessels flee.

Then we tried to use warships,and as u can see, it worked m8.



Viet said:


> Not long ago they did bullshit of Asean leadership as if it is their birthright. Luckily they move on.Shooting at other be justified or not and leadership of a bloc do not fit together.


 Its okay, we can be leaders while at the same time shooting at our neighbors criminal fishing vessels . We're friends right??



warzone said:


> Escaping Viet Nam? Well you have China communist in the North, Laos communist and the murderous Khmer Rouge (and after their defeat in 1979 it's the Vnamese military occupation of Cambodia) on the West,



You forget the commies north vietnam and their vietcong



Viet said:


> Why posting made-in-Vietnam cars here? Why do you post fishing dispute here in this military thread? You act as if your country survival depends on fishing.


Why?? This is a vietnam military forum, and it appears one of your law enforcement ship clashed with our ships, numerous times



Aqsuperman said:


> Fish pirate? Oh I think your brain lacks common senses. Here is what I mean about piracy in Indonesia.
> 
> "Piracy in Indonesia is not only notorious, but according to a survey conducted by the International Maritime Bureau, it was also the country sporting the highest rate of pirate attacks back in 2004, where it subsequently dropped to second place of the world's worst country of pirate attacks in 2008, finishing just behind Nigeria. However, Indonesia is still deemed the country with the world's most dangerous water due to its high piracy rate"
> 
> "The term 'Piracy in Indonesia' includes both cases of Indonesian pirates hijacking other cargo and tanks, as well as the high rate of practising piracy within the country itself. Approximately 50,000 vessels worth of the world's trade employ the Strait of Malacca annually, including oil from the Persian Gulf and manufactured goods to the Middle East and Suez Canal. The success that stems from this trade portal makes the Strait an ideal location for pirate attacks"
> 
> "The first group consisted of four Indonesian pirates who were being arrested where they confessed that they aided and abetted a larger syndicate that operated in the Strait of Malacca. The second group of attackers during that month included six Indonesian men who were being detained. They were suspects for a group of Indonesian pirates that allegedly boarded a merchant vessel in Singapore. During the attack, warning shots were being fired and the pirates fled the scene. It is believed that the group arrived from Batam, an island that was closely situated to the Strait."
> 
> Yeah, Indonesia Navy is doing a fantastic job. But as Indonesian pirates got guns (crappy ones but could still shoot) while Vietnamese fisherman don't have anything, it's easy to see which one is the easier target between the two.


Well Im sorry for your birth defect, you seems to have a problems understanding this, the piracy in the strait of malacca is a trilateral problems shared between Indonesia,malaysia,singapore. Why nalacca strait? Simply its one of the busiest (if not the busiest) maritime route in the planet , with merchant ships carrying goods and stuff .simply put the richer you are, the more determinded are the thieves. So its not a surprise why pirates focused their operation in those particular area, 
But hey at least the pirates are true in their intentions,unlike vietnam of course who used its fishing fleet to grab others country resources and while at the same time bashing china for incursion. So sad


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> Dont worry once our BAKAMLA got their hands on larger ships such as these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We sure will start to withdraw our warships,but till then . Be sure vietnam dont intimidate our law enforcement vessels anymore. Cheers
> 
> 
> Well, we tried using small patrol boats once and the result= vietnam CG started harrasing those boats,so we let the fishing vessels flee.
> 
> Then we tried to use warships,and as u can see, it worked m8.
> 
> Its okay, we can be leaders while at the same time shooting at our neighbors criminal fishing vessels . We're friends right??
> 
> 
> 
> You forget the commies north vietnam and their vietcong
> 
> 
> Why?? This is a vietnam military forum, and it appears one of your law enforcement ship clashed with our ships, numerous times
> 
> 
> Well Im sorry for your birth defect, you seems to have a problems understanding this, the piracy in the strait of malacca is a trilateral problems shared between Indonesia,malaysia,singapore. Why nalacca strait? Simply its one of the busiest (if not the busiest) maritime route in the planet , with merchant ships carrying goods and stuff .simply put the richer you are, the more determinded are the thieves. So its not a surprise why pirates focused their operation in those particular area,
> But hey at least the pirates are true in their intentions,unlike vietnam of course who used its fishing fleet to grab others country resources and while at the same time bashing china for incursion. So sad


Yes you are Asean leader bullshit.

A squadron of those missile guided corvettes have more weapons onboard than the entire Indo navy. In fact, thanks Russia bro, Vietnam can produce 3,000 Kh35 antiship missiles in total. That’s more than enough I believe more than all warships in the world combined. Just we are hesitant because focused on economy, you shouldn’t play stupid, playing a game of provocation.


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## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> Well Im sorry for your birth defect, you seems to have a problems understanding this, the piracy in the strait of malacca is a trilateral problems shared between Indonesia,malaysia,singapore. Why nalacca strait? Simply its one of the busiest (if not the busiest) maritime route in the planet , with merchant ships carrying goods and stuff .simply put the richer you are, the more determinded are the thieves. So its not a surprise why pirates focused their operation in those particular area,
> But hey at least the pirates are true in their intentions,unlike vietnam of course who used its fishing fleet to grab others country resources and while at the same time bashing china for incursion. So sad



"A trilateral problem"? So how come most of the pirates come from Indonesia base on recent reports? Oh wait, turn out Indonesia navy could not keep its citizen from seeking fortune on ship that pass the Malacca strait.



striver44 said:


> You forget the commies north vietnam and their vietcong



Guess how many Papua flee their home land after Indonesia sweep in and grab half of Papua. They must love Indonesia a lot lol.



striver44 said:


> Well, we tried using small patrol boats once and the result= vietnam CG started harrasing those boats,so we let the fishing vessels flee.
> 
> Then we tried to use warships,and as u can see, it worked m8.



Soooooo... You guys wish to bring out warship for fisheries control duty? Then I guess it fine for Vietnam to follow suit and send something big to the region as well?



striver44 said:


> Why?? This is a vietnam military forum, and it appears one of your law enforcement ship clashed with our ships, numerous times



Yes, this is the Vietnam Military Forum thread. VIETNAM. MILITARY. FORUM. Not "Here, feel free to post everything that remotely related to Vietnam armed forces". What happen in the last week incident is between Vietnam Fisheries Control (a civilian body) and Indonesia warship. Dying to share your opinion? Then create your own god damn thread instead of searching for threads with the word "Vietnam" to dish out your prejudice.


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## striver44

Viet said:


> Yes you are Asean leader bullshit.
> 
> A squadron of those missile guided corvettes have more weapons onboard than the entire Indo navy. In fact, thanks Russia bro, Vietnam can produce 3,000 Kh35 antiship missiles in total. That’s more than enough I believe more than all warships in the world combined. Just we are hesitant because focused on economy, you shouldn’t play stupid, playing a game of provocation.
> 
> View attachment 545126
> 
> 
> View attachment 545123
> 
> 
> View attachment 545130


oh yes I've heard this before, another hyped up russian weaponry capable of obliterating an entire force, hahahaha. Ok. I understand you're so focused on economy, that explains why poor countries like you with GDP just 1/4th of Indonesia LOL could pour a lot of money to buy latest russian weaponry, I think that building an Armed forces=Economic development in vietnam . so sad



Aqsuperman said:


> "
> 
> 
> 
> Soooooo... You guys wish to bring out warship for fisheries control duty? Then I guess it fine for Vietnam to follow suit and send something big to the region as well?
> 
> 
> 
> .


Im waiting for that, but like most vietnamese forumer here, just talk no action, big mouthed A-hole thinks their country is some kind of juggernaut with so called 9th largest Armed forces with T90,Kilo,Gepard and 3000++++++++++++ Kh 35 anti dick missile

Btw good luck sending your tiny boat near natuna next time, meanwhile Indonesia had just finisj building up it joint military base in natuna, I pity those molniya boat, they'll have to return for fuel


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> Lets solve the disputed water in civil maner. No one support a country using warship to arrest fishing boats in disputed water


For the last time indonesia does not have a territory dispute with vietnam. Don't u guys have google in communist vietnam? 

This is about the blatant violation of vietnam's illegal fishing in the natuna sea & elsewhere while your government actually gives encouragement & protection to the perpetrators & the have the hypocrisy to say that they're better than the chinese.

Vietnam: 
"How dare china illegally fish in our sea & sent boat to disrupt our fishermen!" 

Also Vietnam: 
"What do you mean I can't steal fish & sent boat to disrupt your fishermen in your sea?" 

This is one instance I think where the hypocrisy is even worse than the crime it self.


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## warzone

striver44 said:


> oh yes I've heard this before, another hyped up russian weaponry capable of obliterating an entire force, hahahaha. Ok. I understand you're so focused on economy, that explains why poor countries like you with GDP just 1/4th of Indonesia LOL could pour a lot of money to buy latest russian weaponry, I think that building an Armed forces=Economic development in vietnam . so sad
> 
> 
> Im waiting for that, but like most vietnamese forumer here, just talk no action, big mouthed A-hole thinks their country is some kind of juggernaut with so called 9th largest Armed forces with T90,Kilo,Gepard and 3000++++++++++++ Kh 35 anti dick missile
> 
> Btw good luck sending your tiny boat near natuna next time, meanwhile Indonesia had just finisj building up it joint military base in natuna, I pity those molniya boat, they'll have to return for fuel


 Can you remind me the huge military achievements of the Indonesian military of the last 50 years... Aceh, East Timor, Papua? Like I said before, you guys are good fighting when you outnumber by 10-20 times your opponents... Indonesian navy will never send those Natura ships unless they are sure they outnumber 5-10 times the Viet Nam Navy , that's how you guys fight...

Good luck defending your 17 500 islands with your small fleet and then try to free large number of boats for a mission or attack.


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## Reashot Xigwin

warzone said:


> Can you remind me the huge military achievements of the Indonesian military of the last 50 years... Aceh, East Timor, Papua? Like I said before, you guys are good fighting when you outnumber by 20-30 time your opponents... Indonesian navy will never send those ships unless they are sure they outnumber the Viet Nam Navy by 5-10, that's how you guys fight


Notice all those wars were fought far away from indonesia's proper & those two include naval & aerial insertion in a massive scale (see trikora & dwikora operations). It also shows indonesian finese in handling insurgency. There's an old joke in the TNI that if we join the vietnam war the communist would have been driven out long ago.

It actually tells you something about indonesia's logistic & planning capabilty in how to wage war in far away land. Meanwhile vietnam can only sends troops close & only by land route.

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## warzone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Notice all those wars were fought far away from indonesia's proper & those two include naval & aerial insertion in a massive scale (see trikora & dwikora operations). It also shows indonesian finese in handling insurgency. There's an old joke in the TNI that if we join the vietnam war the communist would have been driven out long ago.
> 
> It actually tells you something about indonesia's logistic & planning capabilty in how to wage war in far away land. Meanwhile vietnam can only sends troops close & only by land route.



I don't how the Indonesian will change anything. The South Korean, the Aussie, the Kiwi, the Thai and the Philippino are already involved. There were 600 000 Us and allied troop and 500 000 South Vietnamese soldiers. The Indonesian army doesn't have anything special, neither modern equipment neither large battlefield experience or anything . You guys are too pride of yourselves


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## striver44

warzone said:


> Can you remind me the huge military achievements of the Indonesian military of the last 50 years... Aceh, East Timor, Papua? Like I said before, you guys are good fighting when you outnumber by 10-20 times your opponents... Indonesian navy will never send those Natura ships unless they are sure they outnumber 5-10 times the Viet Nam Navy , that's how you guys fight...
> 
> Good luck defending your 17 500 islands with your small fleet and then try to free large number of boats for a mission or attack.


can you tell me how many times vietcong got fucked during the entirety of the vietnam war????, remember kids vietnam war is won politically by north vietnam not militarily against the U.S. 
and oh dont forget suicidal and corrupt vietnam leadership send those puny pathethic viet soldier to stand by a reef only to be used as shooting target by china. so sad



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Notice all those wars were fought far away from indonesia's proper & those two include naval & aerial insertion in a massive scale (see trikora & dwikora operations). It also shows indonesian finese in handling insurgency. There's an old joke in the TNI that if we join the vietnam war the communist would have been driven out long ago.
> 
> It actually tells you something about indonesia's logistic & planning capabilty in how to wage war in far away land. Meanwhile vietnam can only sends troops close & only by land route.


why would we compare ourself with a state that fund terrorism?????


----------



## warzone

striver44 said:


> can you tell me how many times vietcong got fucked during the entirety of the vietnam war????, remember kids vietnam war is won politically by north vietnam not militarily against the U.S.
> and oh dont forget suicidal and corrupt vietnam leadership send those puny pathethic viet soldier to stand by a reef only to be used as shooting target by china. so sad



What an imbecile, you didn't answer my question you just trying to divert the subject. List me the Indonesian army achievements. 

Those soldiers that get killed on the reef most of them wasn't armed.


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## striver44

warzone said:


> What an imbecile, you didn't answer my question you just trying to divert the subject. List me the Indonesian army achievement


Achievement???? well most of ours is the same with yours, a political one....we driven the dutch,the brits and the dutch(once again) from papua..the same way you drive out the americans. Not by overwhelming firepower but by careful planning, and use of politics. savvy?????


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## warzone

striver44 said:


> Achievement???? well most of ours is the same with yours, a political one....we driven the dutch,the brits and the dutch(once again) from papua..the same way you drive out the americans. Not by overwhelming firepower but by careful planning, and use of politics. savvy?????


 LOL The way you comment doesn't havea lot of diplomacy....


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## striver44

warzone said:


> LOL


that's it?????? hahahahahaha

now please tell me fellow vietnam member, how brilliant is tet offensive, im sure its a brilliant military victory instead of a political one.sad

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## warzone

striver44 said:


> that's it?????? hahahahahaha


LOL The way you comment doesn't have a lot of diplomacy....boasting about the Indo army and your boat Natura and blabla.... hypocrite


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## striver44

warzone said:


> What an imbecile, you didn't answer my question you just trying to divert the subject. List me the Indonesian army achievements.
> 
> Those soldiers that get killed on the reef most of them wasn't armed.


yes so sad, they sent those kids unarmed facing chinese guns, typical commies, they view human life as cheap. as cheap as their monthly wages and rations. so sad to hear this huhuuhuhuhuhu, wait I'll need a tissue



warzone said:


> LOL The way you comment doesn't have a lot of diplomacy....boasting about the Indo army and your boat Natura and blabla.... hypocrite


im not a diplomat, im merely exposing how vietnamese member lambasting china for incursion while turning a blind eye when they did the ver exact same thing


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## Reashot Xigwin

warzone said:


> I don't how the Indonesian will change anything. The South Korean, the Aussie, the Kiwi, the Thai and the Philippino are already involved. There were 600 000 Us and allied troop and 500 000 South Vietnamese soldiers. The Indonesian army doesn't have anything special, neither modern equipment neither large battlefield experience or anything . You guys are too pride of yourselves


Indonesia during that time periods have one things the western powers don't have. The ability to use everything at their disposals.

Let's just say there will be less vietnamese by the time we're done & leave it at that.

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## Viet

striver44 said:


> oh yes I've heard this before, another hyped up russian weaponry capable of obliterating an entire force, hahahaha. Ok. I understand you're so focused on economy, that explains why poor countries like you with GDP just 1/4th of Indonesia LOL could pour a lot of money to buy latest russian weaponry, I think that building an Armed forces=Economic development in vietnam . so sad
> 
> 
> Im waiting for that, but like most vietnamese forumer here, just talk no action, big mouthed A-hole thinks their country is some kind of juggernaut with so called 9th largest Armed forces with T90,Kilo,Gepard and 3000++++++++++++ Kh 35 anti dick missile
> 
> Btw good luck sending your tiny boat near natuna next time, meanwhile Indonesia had just finisj building up it joint military base in natuna, I pity those molniya boat, they'll have to return for fuel


Pls don’t brag on GDP figures.that is misleading. I give you an example: if I spend $100 to dig a hole in my garden and spend another $100 to undo my stupidity, how much GDP was generated? Correct:$200. Venezuela has higher GDP per capita than yours but their population can’t afford any to buy anything to eat. They can’t even afford to import toilet paper. Large parts of your GDP are generated by selling natural resources. You rely on food imports. VN sells foods to your country. What happens with 50 years when your resources are dried and the last tree is burned?

If we don’t suffer colonialism, numerous wars, devastation and economic sanctions in the last century our GDP would be on par with South Korea. You have extremely long peace period, but your GDP figure is pretty much low.

If I was you, instead of military buying foreign weapons I would spend more money on education. Indonesia education sucks if you haven’t noticed. You rank at the bottom of Pisa ranking. Despite low budget Vietnam ranks on par with other much richer countries in East Asia and Western Europe.In some metrics we are even better.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Indonesia during that time periods have one things the western powers don't have. The ability to use everything at their disposals.
> 
> Let's just say there will be less vietnamese by the time we're done & leave it at that.


Your country nowadays is much like the Turkey: the politics is driven by a nationalist Islamist wave. Sorry, what should the people think, when Turkey leadership declares onion prices as of national strategic importance, when people queue stores for cheap onions? Much like you, with garlic. Sorry, you are primitive.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Pls don’t brag on GDP figures.that is misleading. I give you an example: if I spend $100 to dig a hole in my garden and spend another $100 to undo my stupidity, how much GDP was generated? Correct:$200. Venezuela has higher GDP per capita than yours but their population can’t afford any to buy anything to eat. They can’t even afford to import toilet paper. Large parts of your GDP are generated by selling natural resources. You rely on food imports. VN sells foods to your country. What happens with 50 years when your resources are dried and the last tree is burned?
> 
> If we don’t suffer colonialism, numerous wars, devastation and economic sanctions in the last century our GDP would be on par with South Korea. You have extremely long peace period, but your GDP figure is pretty much low.
> 
> If I was you, instead of military buying foreign weapons I would spend more money on education. Indonesia education sucks if you haven’t noticed. You rank at the bottom of Pisa ranking. Despite low budget Vietnam ranks on par with other much richer countries in East Asia and Western Europe.In some metrics we are even better.
> 
> 
> Your country nowadays is much like the Turkey: the politics is driven by a nationalist Islamist wave. Sorry, what should the people think, when Turkey leadership declares onion prices as of national strategic importance, when people queue stores for cheap onions? Much like you, with garlic. Sorry, you are primitive.


Meanwhile vietnamese can't even vote or criticize the government... That's an improvement how exactly?


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Meanwhile vietnamese can't even vote or criticize the government... That's an improvement how exactly?


Critics are not forbidden but any attempt to attack the government is taboo. No it’s not improvement but really not different to other periods in history. Fyi, VN is always ruled by a strong central government, be now under VCP leadership or previously under imperial rules be either from VN or CN. In your country any critics to Islam is taboo and forbidden too, isn’t it? For blasphemy be true or not, you throw all into jails or kill them. Where is your progress? No that is primitive.

VN has a communist leadership but we have Buddhist pagoda and Christ churches everywhere.Nobody will be jailed for critics to the religions in VN.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Critics are not forbidden but any attempt to attack the government is taboo. No it’s not improvement but really not different to other periods in history. Fyi, VN is always ruled by a strong central government, be now under VCP leadership or previously under imperial rules be either from VN or CN. In your country any critics cs to Islam is taboo and forbidden too, isn’t it? You throw anyone into jails or kill them. Where is your progress?


So you need a strong man to lead the country otherwise the country will fall into ruin or something like that. And you call us primitives? 

At least we evolved past the needs for an authoritarian ruler.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> So you need a strong man to lead the country otherwise the country will fall into ruin or something like that. And you call us primitives?
> 
> At least we evolved past the needs for an authoritarian ruler.


A strong hand is ok, but your country’s leadership is similar to the old ages in Europe when their politics were driven by waves of nationalism and religious fanaticism.

As for authoritarian rule,Facebook, google, youtube and other western media are available in VN. Everyone can post bullshit, unless it’s not attacking the government, it’s not forbidden.

Considering everything is forbidden in other communist countries as China, Cuba and North Korea that is an improvemen. But we are off topic, much to other posts related to fishing, don’t you think so?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> A strong hand is ok, but your country’s leadership is similar to the old ages in Europe when their politics were driven by waves of nationalism and religious fanaticism.



Hmmm....




jokowi riding alone without security while conversing with commuters.

So this look like its driven by fanaticism?

At least its not like in vietnam where the people are expected to act like slaves towards their leader. Again which one are the primitives? 

In here people's matters. We don't need leader to tell us what to do.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Hmmm....
> View attachment 545246
> 
> jokowi riding alone without security while conversing with commuters.
> 
> So this look like its driven by fanaticism?
> 
> At least its not like in vietnam where the people are expected to act like slaves towards their leader. Again which one are the primitives?
> 
> In here people's matters. We don't need leader to tell us what to do.


Ok VN ruling party achievement with uniting the country, winning independent wars against France, America, China and Cambodia is nothing in front of a successful former furniture seller of Indonesia. Good, congrats.

As for Indo catching our fishermen, no worry, Viettel has just successfully produced a long range surveillance X band radar, a clone of “Score 3000”, that can detect ships at 170 km away, regardless of days and nights in all weather conditions. We will be faster at place than your patrol ships.


----------



## Aqsuperman

It seems Indonesians refuse to leave the thread alone after all that. Well it's a good thing that I have plenty of free time as it's weekend now.



striver44 said:


> Im waiting for that, but like most vietnamese forumer here, just talk no action, big mouthed A-hole thinks their country is some kind of juggernaut with so called 9th largest Armed forces with T90,Kilo,Gepard and 3000++++++++++++ Kh 35 anti dick missile
> 
> Btw good luck sending your tiny boat near natuna next time, meanwhile Indonesia had just finisj building up it joint military base in natuna, I pity those molniya boat, they'll have to return for fuel



Let's see:

Indonesian with big balls: Rebels roam the country, pirate rule the sea, annexed people land and police torture people with snakes
Vietnamese with no balls: No rebel, no pirate and so far never annex lands of other countries since the birth of modern government

Once again, Indonesian avoid topics that embarrass them and focus on the only thing that play well to their pride: THE WILL TO SHOOT UNARMED PEOPLE.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Don't u guys have google in communist vietnam?



Solid proof that Indonesian simply pay no attention to detail. It seems that many Indonesian diehards take information about Vietnam from their great-grandparents. Hey genius, we have excellent connection to the Internet including every search engines, social platforms and so on. It's you guys that must use your Google more before coming up with dumb *** rhetorical questions.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's an old joke in the TNI that if we join the vietnam war the communist would have been driven out long ago.



What a funny joke that I forgot to laugh. Rebels are currently roaming Indonesia killing people left and right TILL THIS VERY DAY but some retard Indonesian think they could help the US (with top-tier weapons and millions of personnel) alter the outcome of the Vietnam War? Please, visit a mental institution for a full checkup right away. Next thing you say would be like: "If i was around in 2002 and 2005, I could have stopped the Bali Bombing". Gosh, I wonder why Indonesians have so much confidence in their military when the Indonesian Armed Forces could not finish a few rebels groups armed with smuggled rifles.



striver44 said:


> can you tell me how many times vietcong got fucked during the entirety of the vietnam war????, remember kids vietnam war is won politically by north vietnam not militarily against the U.S.
> and oh dont forget suicidal and corrupt vietnam leadership send those puny pathethic viet soldier to stand by a reef only to be used as shooting target by china. so sad



In war, people win some and lose some. Your Indonesians war on terrorist, on the other hand, is a combination of fck up and fck up. But feel free to dwell in Vietnam War while Indonesian got slaughtered by rebels nowadays. You seem like to talk about Vietnam history but when I bring up Indonesia, you start screening in denial.

Corruption? Suicidal? Well that would make the Vietnam People Army weak, right? Terrorists would take that chance and kill Vietnamese, right? Pirate should be all over Vietnam robbing ships, right?

But wait, I cannot see a single terrorist/pirate in my country while Indonesian is filled with those. I hope you are not that stupid to see A GIANT FCKING FLAW in the logic you just barked.

BTW, here is one thing to cheer up your day: "According to Transparency International, Suharto is the most corrupt leader in modern history, having embezzled an alleged $15–35 billion during his rule."



striver44 said:


> why would we compare ourself with a state that fund terrorism?????



Sure, Vietnam funded terrorism while Indonesians sent terrorists into Papua and set up a regime that NO ONE like. Good to know.



striver44 said:


> Achievement???? well most of ours is the same with yours, a political one....we driven the dutch,the brits and the dutch(once again) from papua..the same way you drive out the americans. Not by overwhelming firepower but by careful planning, and use of politics. savvy?????



Indonesia never lose a single battle while fighting colonial powers as they use their wits....Well, I heard fairy tales that sound more believable than that. Next thing you say would be "People from Papua love Indonesian and we share a happy relationship with each other". Oh wait, Papua LOVE to separate from Indonesia the first chance they get.



striver44 said:


> yes so sad, they sent those kids unarmed facing chinese guns, typical commies, they view human life as cheap. as cheap as their monthly wages and rations. so sad to hear this huhuuhuhuhuhu, wait I'll need a tissue



A shining example of a Indonesian F-A-G that refuse to get straight to the point and dance around the world  Oh my God did you just commented "huhuuhuhuhuhu" ? Have you finished primary school yet because in Vietnam, only grade school children resort to "huhuuhuhuhuhu" as they run out of reasons.



striver44 said:


> im not a diplomat, im merely exposing how vietnamese member lambasting china for incursion while turning a blind eye when they did the ver exact same thing



Thanks heaven you are not a diplomat because every time you start screaming "huhuuhuhuhuhu" as you get into a tight corner, people would put a leash on your neck, ship you back to Jakarta and with a tag: "We ask that you send us a DIPLOMAT, not a KID...and this one is not even a smart kid".



Reashot Xigwin said:


> jokowi riding alone without security while conversing with commuters.
> 
> So this look like its driven by fanaticism?
> 
> At least its not like in vietnam where the people are expected to act like slaves towards their leader. Again which one are the primitives?
> 
> In here people's matters. We don't need leader to tell us what to do



Lol a picture that show a official driving with random people talks a lot about domestic affair.

"Robertus Robet was briefly detained early on Thursday after video emerged online of him singing a protest song criticising a plan to put senior military officials in civilian government positions, comparing it to the days of Indonesia’s late dictator Suharto.

The university lecturer, who is also a well-known rights campaigner, was released and subsequently charged under a law that makes it illegal to insult public institutions. The maximum penalty is 18 months’ jail"

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/441512-indonesian-activist-charged-with-insulting-military

Really? You arrest people because of a song? Even in Communist Vietnam, we don't have that kind of dismal charge in our laws. Freedom and democracy in Indonesia at its finest, I guess. If that is not "fanatical" then I guess Hitler is a "respectable" figure in Indonesia then?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Ok VN ruling party achievement with uniting the country, winning independent wars against France, America, China and Cambodia is nothing in front of a successful former furniture seller of Indonesia. Good, congrats.
> 
> As for Indo catching our fishermen, no worry, Viettel has just successfully produced a long range surveillance X band radar, a clone of “Score 3000”, that can detect ships at 170 km away, regardless of days and nights in all weather conditions. We will be faster at place than your patrol ships.
> 
> 
> View attachment 545269
> 
> 
> View attachment 545270


That was the ruling party then. Not the ruling party now. Most of those people involved are already dead or already have 1 foot in the ground. 

Meanwhile the former furniture salesman been making great strides in domestic & international stages to the point you know about him but nobody knows or gives a shit about vietnam's president.


----------



## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Meanwhile the former furniture salesman been making great strides in domestic & international stages to the point you know about him but nobody knows or gives a shit about vietnam's president.



No, out president doesn't do much. Let's see:

- Host a summit between US and North Korea regarding nuclear disarmament in the Korea Peninsula
- Promote the rise of support industries and take care of debt from previous decades
- Increase the social security in the country which lead to a decrease in criminal offenses. 

Conclusion: Indonesian don't know about our president (and that is fine, we don't give one fck about Indonesian president and his salesman history). However,you should refrain from making comments that include the rest of the worlds as it's highly likely that you don't know crap about their interest. Vietnam is so irrelevant in the world stage? Well we are "relevant" enough that the United States choose us to hold a summit. Wonder if Indonesia could ever hope to be the host of such a summit in the future?

Answer: Fcking unlikely. Not with their history of hotel bombing and rebels lol :v


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That was the ruling party then. Not the ruling party now. Most of those people involved are already dead or already have 1 foot in the ground.
> 
> Meanwhile the former furniture salesman been making great strides in domestic & international stages to the point you know about him but nobody knows or gives a shit about vietnam's president.


What great stride? You mean he helps Indonesia to export furniture to Vietnam?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> No, out president doesn't do much. Let's see:
> 
> - Host a summit between US and North Korea regarding nuclear disarmament in the Korea Peninsula
> - Promote the rise of support industries and take care of debt from previous decades
> - Increase the social security in the country which lead to a decrease in criminal offenses.
> 
> Conclusion: Indonesian don't know about our president (and that is fine, we don't give one fck about Indonesian president and his salesman history). However,you should refrain from making comments that include the rest of the worlds as it's highly likely that you don't know crap about their interest. Vietnam is so irrelevant in the world stage? Well we are "relevant" enough that the United States choose us to hold a summit. Wonder if Indonesia could ever hope to be the host of such a summit in the future?
> 
> Answer: Fcking unlikely. Not with their history of hotel bombing and rebels lol :v


I have no idea that your dictator president are so irrelevant that you have to include meaningless summits that are paid for by the US & with both attendee actually left early because they can't reach an understanding. Vietnam serves as venue & props nothing more: 

List of notable summits actually hosted by indonesia: 
- Asian-Africa summit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandung_Conference 
- ASEAN 
- APEC
- IMF
- Our Ocean Conference that just we just hosted a couple of months ago. The pope even gives his blessing: https://www.ucanews.com/news/pope-backs-indonesias-tough-illegal-fishing-policy/84116 what the heck have vietnam ever done to get the approval of the pope?! 
- There's more but I'm too lazy.
- & other less notable international conferences that people somehow have no problems with choosing indonesia for the venue: https://allconferencealert.net/indonesia.php

It seems you guys don't even have access to google if you don't even know that indonesia is a way ahead of vietnam in international politics. Even in the domestics stage you guys are pathetic. In comparison to us anyway.

Thank you for proving my points.


----------



## striver44

Viet said:


> Ok VN ruling party achievement with uniting the country, winning independent wars against France, America, China and Cambodia is nothing in front of a successful former furniture seller of Indonesia. Good, congrats.
> 
> As for Indo catching our fishermen, no worry, Viettel has just successfully produced a long range surveillance X band radar, a clone of “Score 3000”, that can detect ships at 170 km away, regardless of days and nights in all weather conditions. We will be faster at place than your patrol ships.
> 
> 
> View attachment 545269
> 
> 
> View attachment 545270


Ok hahaha is that going to change anything??

Just now LoL
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QqQIIJigBMAA&usg=AOvVaw3dUF18mzm37rK_YZXxbrrn

Yup another vietnam fishing boat brought in by KKP boats 
http://batam.tribunnews.com/2019/03...una-kkp-tangkap-kapal-ikan-asing-asal-vietnam


----------



## striver44

Viet said:


> Critics are not forbidden but any attempt to attack the government is taboo. No it’s not improvement but really not different to other periods in history. Fyi, VN is always ruled by a strong central government, be now under VCP leadership or previously under imperial rules be either from VN or CN. In your country any critics to Islam is taboo and forbidden too, isn’t it? For blasphemy be true or not, you throw all into jails or kill them. Where is your progress? No that is primitive.
> 
> VN has a communist leadership but we have Buddhist pagoda and Christ churches everywhere.Nobody will be jailed for critics to the religions in VN.


woahhhhhh, attacking government are kinda tabooo???at the same time criticize us for jailing religion insulters hahahahaha, VN is always ruled by strong central government ????hahahaha I cant believe the amount of hyprocrisy in this thread by viet forumers. bashing indonesia for using snake as torture while itself is infamous for torture (you know commies thing), bashing china for incursions while sending naval vessels to others territory, whats next vietcong??????



Viet said:


> Pls don’t brag on GDP figures.that is misleading. I give you an example: if I spend $100 to dig a hole in my garden and spend another $100 to undo my stupidity, how much GDP was generated? Correct:$200. Venezuela has higher GDP per capita than yours but their population can’t afford any to buy anything to eat. They can’t even afford to import toilet paper. Large parts of your GDP are generated by selling natural resources. You rely on food imports. VN sells foods to your country. What happens with 50 years when your resources are dried and the last tree is burned?


so tell me how is it building and spending lavishly on the armed forces=economic development???? Im interested. still just to remind you the fact that your gdp is pfffft only 1/4th of ours.



Viet said:


> If we don’t suffer colonialism, numerous wars, devastation and economic sanctions in the last century our GDP would be on par with South Korea. You have extremely long peace period, but your GDP figure is pretty much low.


No baby, you suffer from communism



Viet said:


> Your country nowadays is much like the Turkey: the politics is driven by a nationalist Islamist wave. Sorry, what should the people think, when Turkey leadership declares onion prices as of national strategic importance, when people queue stores for cheap onions? Much like you, with garlic. Sorry, you are primitive.


your country nowadays still suffered from communist shit utopia, which is driven by some immature kids who thinks they're smart after reading karl marx das capital. thinking its so great that everything must be shared between the comune ,it's only in 90s that your government realize that communism sucks and entered the market economy. but still they use communism as a rallying cry so that the vietnam commie party could stay in power. sad



Aqsuperman said:


> It seems Indonesians refuse to leave the thread alone after all that. Well it's a good thing that I have plenty of free time as it's weekend now.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see:
> 
> Indonesian with big balls: Rebels roam the country, pirate rule the sea, annexed people land and police torture people with snakes
> Vietnamese with no balls: No rebel, no pirate and so far never annex lands of other countries since the birth of modern government


nice exageration you got there girl, hahahaha. rebels roam the country????? hahahahahahahahahahahaha. much of the rebels had already been subded just like in aceh, the only safe heavens they have now is in the remote mountains of papua or in the jungles of poso. and yes none of the *roam the country freely like you imagined. LOL.*

meanwhile vietnam=a communist country with ehemmmm free market economy, crying baby and playing victims in south china sea while making multiple incursion into neighboring country waters, stealing fishes, crappy gdp, even more crappy gdp per capita,poor infrastructure, wannabe juggernaut regional power.



Aqsuperman said:


> A shining example of a Indonesian F-A-G that refuse to get straight to the point and dance around the world  Oh my God did you just commented "huhuuhuhuhuhu" ? Have you finished primary school yet because in Vietnam, only grade school children resort to "huhuuhuhuhuhu" as they run out of reasons.
> 
> 
> Thanks heaven you are not a diplomat because every time you start screaming "huhuuhuhuhuhu" as you get into a tight corner, people would put a leash on your neck, ship you back to Jakarta and with a tag: "We ask that you send us a DIPLOMAT, not a KID...and this one is not even a smart kid".


is it forbidden to cry for those poor souls who vietnamese elite send there without proper arms only to be living target practice by china's naval guns?? I pity them, they should be going to school, having a family, get good jobs. but I think those fat elites above dont think the same

and another Vietnamese fishing boats captured 8th march 2019, this time by Indonesian Navy Corvette Teuku Umar-*385*


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## Aqsuperman

Again, Indonesian avoid to answer things that their brain refuse to handle 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> I have no idea that your dictator president are so irrelevant that you have to include meaningless summits that are paid for by the US & with both attendee actually left early because they can't reach an understanding. Vietnam serves as venue & props nothing more:
> 
> List of notable summits actually hosted by indonesia:
> - Asian-Africa summit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandung_Conference
> - ASEAN
> - APEC
> - IMF
> - Our Ocean Conference that just we just hosted a couple of months ago. The pope even gives his blessing: https://www.ucanews.com/news/pope-backs-indonesias-tough-illegal-fishing-policy/84116 what the heck have vietnam ever done to get the approval of the pope?!
> - There's more but I'm too lazy.
> - & other less notable international conferences that people somehow have no problems with choosing indonesia for the venue: https://allconferencealert.net/indonesia.php
> 
> It seems you guys don't even have access to google if you don't even know that indonesia is a way ahead of vietnam in international politics. Even in the domestics stage you guys are pathetic. In comparison to us anyway.
> 
> Thank you for proving my points.



LOL Vietnam hold those summit all the time but guess what, no one care about them so we don't bother to list them here. In the international stage, you need SERIOUS prestige for people from the United Nation Security Council and "nuclear-armed club" to host a summit in your country regarding nuclear disarmament. Sure the result might not play out well but if you have no name whatsoever in politic, they don't even bother to pick you from the first place. Indonesia could be the street vendor but Vietnam shall act as the main event.

Indonesia domestics affair where people got arrested for singing a song? please, enlighten us on how the fck it's better than Vietnam. BTW, I see that you bring out a whole lot of points before about "If we we were in Vietnam back then, we could drive you guys out". Care to explain my "view" about the point?



striver44 said:


> nice exageration you got there girl, hahahaha. rebels roam the country????? hahahahahahahahahahahaha. much of the rebels had already been subded just like in aceh, the only safe heavens they have now is in the remote mountains of papua or in the jungles of poso. and yes none of the *roam the country freely like you imagined. LOL.*
> 
> meanwhile vietnam=a communist country with ehemmmm free market economy, crying baby and playing victims in south china sea while making multiple incursion into neighboring country waters, stealing fishes, crappy gdp, even more crappy gdp per capita,poor infrastructure, wannabe juggernaut regional power.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46446719

"A soldier was also shot dead when a team of police and security forces were sent to investigate Sunday's killings, authorities added.

The workers had been building a road and bridges in the remote and mountainous Nduga region.

Police have blamed the deaths on separatist fighters.

Insurgents calling for independence have been active in Papua for decades.

The BBC's Rebecca Henschke in Jakarta says that if the killings are confirmed it will be the deadliest bout of violence in years in the restive province."

Peaceful Indonesia where every people live in harmony  Where is the almighty Indonesian Army that could shoot unarmed fishing boat? Cound they stop the incident from the first place? If you are good at fighting, you would have killed every single terrorist in your country for good. You don't leave a fcking "safe heaven" for them in your country so don't say that as if that is some sort of "achievement" lol. "Hey guys, Indonesia is safe, there are few rebels in the country. Around 4 months ago, 24 Indonesian got executed in a gruesome manner but everything beside that is fine"

That sound damn assuring in so many levels, right? 



striver44 said:


> is it forbidden to cry for those poor souls who vietnamese elite send there without proper arms only to be living target practice by china's naval guns?? I pity them, they should be going to school, having a family, get good jobs. but I think those fat elites above dont think the same
> 
> and another Vietnamese fishing boats captured 8th march 2019, this time by Indonesian Navy Corvette Teuku Umar-*385*



Nah, I pretty sure when you come up with the unintelligible "uhuhuhuhuhhu", you try to make fun of us but it backfire as it make you sound like a pre-puberty GIRL from primary school.

I say A, you scream uhuhuhuhuhhu
I say B, you scream uhuhuhuhuhhu
I say C, you scream uhuhuhuhuhhu

That sure make you like a compassion person? No, you are acting like a kid with a slow-developed brain that attempt to tease adults.

Our soldier got ambushed in the reef with only construction equipment, they are pioneers, not front line combatants. However, their sacrifice help us reclaim most of the lands in Spratly Islands. Indonesia? Well I bet every soldier that invade Papua receive indoctrination about "Papua is our land, the people love us Indonesian there". Decades later, Papua remain hateful of Indonesians. I bet troops from Indonesian want to live peacefully, go to school and stuff but no, Indonesia have to station troops in Papua and let their soldiers die every now and then. That sure make the "Indonesia elite" become a pretty authoritarian regime from Vietnam point of view. Oh wait, the UN Human Right Commission already classify you guys as one long ago.



striver44 said:


> woahhhhhh, attacking government are kinda tabooo???at the same time criticize us for jailing religion insulters hahahahaha, VN is always ruled by strong central government ????hahahaha I cant believe the amount of hyprocrisy in this thread by viet forumers. bashing indonesia for using snake as torture while itself is infamous for torture (you know commies thing), bashing china for incursions while sending naval vessels to others territory, whats next vietcong??????



Lol what commie things? You are seriously comparing wartime Vietnam to modern day Indonesia? No, in the 21st century, we don't use snake to torture people like the barbaric Indonesian, get that fact straight. Want me to bring story about wartime Indonesia? Pretty sure you guys upheld moral code well in the 1965-1966 Genocide. 



striver44 said:


> so tell me how is it building and spending lavishly on the armed forces=economic development???? Im interested. still just to remind you the fact that your gdp is pfffft only 1/4th of ours.



Oh you like numbers?

Less than 10 million Vietnamese live with less than 1 dollar/day (poverty line by World Bank standard). Indonesia? That number is more than 20 million. Sure, Indonesian GDP is 5 times higher than Vietnam but more Vietnamese know about wealth than Indonesian lol.We Vietnamese force people to share wealth? Then in Indonesia, I guess all the wealth got held up at the top. 



striver44 said:


> No baby, you suffer from communism



The opinion of a Indonesian retard would not outweigh the opinions of experts from Standard & Poor, Moody and Fitch. You know, major firms that assess the economy for nations around the world? They say the Vietnam economy is longer a controlled economy then we are no longer a controlled economy. Period. Want to say otherwise? Show your degree in economic and we shall talk more.



striver44 said:


> your country nowadays still suffered from communist shit utopia, which is driven by some immature kids who thinks they're smart after reading karl marx das capital. thinking its so great that everything must be shared between the comune ,it's only in 90s that your government realize that communism sucks and entered the market economy. but still they use communism as a rallying cry so that the vietnam commie party could stay in power. sad



We improve outsell and look to the future, nothing wrong with that. Indonesia? "We must beware of the communist threats" is the top common election quote for every campaigner in Indonesia. You want to hunt communist so bad that you forget that non-communist rebels still kill Indonesian every day lol. You guys still dream back in the days of Suharto where killing communist earns you aids from the West but guess what? In the 21st century, Indonesia is known for bombing, terrorist slice up throat of citizen and police lock people in cage with snakes, not "communist uprising".

As this is the "Vietnam Military Forum thread" after all, let's talk about Vietnam military for a bit as the Indonesian trolls are busy raging.

A Sukhoi aircraft from the VPAF has rejoined the fleet after receiving upgrades at oversea

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Viet

striver44 said:


> Ok hahaha is that going to change anything??
> 
> Just now LoL
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QqQIIJigBMAA&usg=AOvVaw3dUF18mzm37rK_YZXxbrrn
> 
> Yup another vietnam fishing boat brought in by KKP boats
> http://batam.tribunnews.com/2019/03...una-kkp-tangkap-kapal-ikan-asing-asal-vietnam


well Chinese ramming and sinking Vietnam fishing vessels with killing intent is not new nor shocking anyone more.I don’t think that will sit well in Vietnamese public. this time many US and Japanese media report on the incident. That will not sit well either in the US and Japan. As for Indonesia we will wait to see if you copy China behavior.


----------



## warzone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Indonesia during that time periods have one things the western powers don't have. The ability to use everything at their disposals.
> 
> Let's just say there will be less vietnamese by the time we're done & leave it at that.


LOL
During the Viet Nam war, Indonesia doesn't have the ABILITY to take care of their own military problems by trying to control all those tiny islands with small REBEL FACTIONS (few thousands armed ragtag militants) and also can’t solve her territorial problem military (DEFEATED… LOL ) with your much smaller neighbor, MALAYSIA and a small troop of allies.

And you say Indonesia will change the course of Viet Nam war if it get involved, hahaha what a joke!



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Hmmm....
> View attachment 545246
> 
> jokowi riding alone without security while conversing with commuters.
> 
> So this look like its driven by fanaticism?
> 
> At least its not like in vietnam where the people are expected to act like slaves towards their leader. Again which one are the primitives?
> 
> In here people's matters. We don't need leader to tell us what to do.



Primitive? Trump can’t do what your president did by going unannounced in a subway with minimum security detail (undercover agents), does it mean USA is primitive?

Which country have a terrorism problems, have deadly riots, highest murder rate 6.2 (against 1.52 for Viet Nam), lack of equal rights between women and men, violence against others religions… Yes Indonesia is a role model for all the countries in the world and everyone in the world want to go live in Indonesia


----------



## Viet

I wonder why Indo posters are laughing? Their GDP isn’t the reason to laugh on Vietnam. South Korea was poorer but now its GDP per capita slowly reaches the level of Japan. Both Japan and SK are countries we admire but Indo? Sorry. Yes it is laughable. India and Pakistan clash over Kashmir, North Korea with the US, both conflicts can escalate to a nuclear exchange that will end the world as we know it. But hey, the Indo shoot at our fishermen while the Chinese ramm to kill.


----------



## Indos

Viet said:


> I wonder why Indo posters are laughing? Their GDP isn’t the reason to laugh on Vietnam. South Korea was poorer but now its GDP per capita slowly reaches the level of Japan. Both Japan and SK are countries we admire but Indo? Sorry. Yes it is laughable. India and Pakistan clash over Kashmir, North Korea with the US, both conflicts can escalate to a nuclear exchange that will end the world as we know it. But hey, the Indo shoot at our fishermen while the Chinese ramm to kill.



No one shoot at Vietnamese fisherman @Viet It was a warning shoot to your government ships who chase our navy ship.


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## Viet

Indos said:


> No one shoot at Vietnamese fisherman @Viet It was a warning shoot to your government ships who chase our navy ship.


Indos, sorry I can’t understand the language. from the uniform and weapons they are not from the coast guard but from the army or navy?


----------



## Indos

Viet said:


> Indos, sorry I can’t understand the language. from the uniform and weapons they are not from the coast guard but from the army or navy?



Yup, it was a navy, Bung Tomo class corvette. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bung_Tomo-class_corvette


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## Viet

Indos said:


> Yup, it was a navy, Bung Tomo class corvette.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bung_Tomo-class_corvette


Why navy with big guns? Where is your coast guard?
Vietnam has large Eez waters. We have with Indonesia overlapping Eez waters around Natura. Foreign vessels intrude Vietnam waters regularly but I never heard of Vietnamese warships firing on foreign vessels.

I never heard either of Vietnam law enforcement vessels ramm foreign ships to kill everyone onboard. Only primitive people resort to violence.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Aqsuperman

Incoming news about Indonesia "domestic affair" 

"As many as 15 people are feared to have been killed in a firefight between Indonesian soldiers and Papuan independence fighters, adding to more than two dozen deaths in the simmering conflict since November."

"Aidi claimed the soldiers had arrived in the area to guard work on the trans Papua highway and the attack was unprovoked. According to Sambom, the soldiers had burned traditional dwellings and interrogated villagers."

"An insurgency has simmered in Papua, which makes up the western half of the island of New Guinea, since the early 1960s when Indonesia annexed the Dutch-controlled territory.

Discrimination against indigenous Papuans and abuses by Indonesian police and military have drawn renewed attention globally as Indonesia campaigns for membership in the UN’s human rights watchdog.

The exiled leader of the Papuan independence movement, Benny Wenda, in January presented a 1.8m-signature petition calling for self-determination to the UN human rights chief in Geneva."

Yeah that sure make domestic affair in Indonesia "far superior" than Vietnam. Man, we never have a shooting skirmishes in our soils since the 1990s. The Indonesian Armed Forces in the 21st century manage to brew an ongoing insurrection while the Vietnam People Army fail to have one. That sure make me feel shameful about how "weak" our army is nowadays. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/08/west-papua-independence-deaths-battle-indonesia

Yeah.... I was joking :v

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

Seen during DPRK/US summit in Hanoi

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

Even the summit failed, Vietnam role as dealmaker slowly pays off. 50 US companies from Google, Apple, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, ExxonMobil, GE, Ford, MasterCard, Qualcomm, IBM to JP Morganwill attend a business summit next week in Hanoi. They are parts of $6 trillion US/ASEAN council club. Well a gift of Donald Trump. In other direction, Kim would like Vietnamese companies to come to his country.

http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/50680...hold-talks-in-ha-noi.html#u1rfpHCCZtCc6bR3.99


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Even the summit failed, Vietnam role as dealmaker slowly pays off. 50 US companies from Google, Apple, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, ExxonMobil, GE, Ford, MasterCard, Qualcomm, IBM to JP Morganwill attend a business summit next week in Hanoi. They are parts of $6 trillion US/ASEAN council club. Well a gift of Donald Trump. In other direction, Kim would like Vietnamese companies to come to his country.
> 
> http://vietnamnews.vn/economy/50680...hold-talks-in-ha-noi.html#u1rfpHCCZtCc6bR3.99
> 
> View attachment 545533
> 
> 
> View attachment 545536


Nk-US should failed, thats the signal for everyone to know that CN-US negotiation will be failed too.

Unlike 1979, Daddy US-Jap will spank CN so hard this time


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## AMG_12

Viva_Viet said:


> Nk-US should failed, thats the signal for everyone to know that CN-US negotiation will be failed too.
> 
> Unlike 1979, Daddy US-Jap will spank CN so hard this time


Even though the thread isn't about US-China relations, I'd like to add China isn't North Korea. The Sino-US relations are way more deeper and complex than US-NK. Japan got it's own set of problems to deal eith.


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## Viva_Viet

Game.Invade said:


> Even though the thread isn't about US-China relations, I'd like to add China isn't North Korea. The Sino-US relations are way more deeper and complex than US-NK. Japan got it's own set of problems to deal eith.


Just wait and see US keep spanking CN. Its so clear that US want CN collapse like Soviet, so US can loot all CN properties like in Qing time


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## Aqsuperman

Game.Invade said:


> Even though the thread isn't about US-China relations, I'd like to add China isn't North Korea. The Sino-US relations are way more deeper and complex than US-NK. Japan got it's own set of problems to deal eith.



Yeah I used to think like that too. With China being the richest source of rare earth minerals which is essential for virtually every electronics and the US boast the most tempting market for technology in the world, I concluded that the US needed China and and China needed the US. However, it seem that nowadays, the US go all out on the trade war against China without any restraint. It's best to wait to see how things turn out from the sideline. 

Now back to Vietnam military affair. Vietnam recently sent a group of officers on a friendly visit to Oregon. During the visit, the officer took the chance to observe UH-72 Dakota, a militarized version of the Eurocopter EC145. For a while, the helicopter fleet of Vietnam People Armed have received nothing new. Let's hope that the visit could lead to purchases in the future.


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## warzone

Indos said:


> Yup, it was a navy, Bung Tomo class corvette.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bung_Tomo-class_corvette


Wow what bunch of tough guys, sending a military navy corvette against a coast guard ship and that idiot officer is talking like the just won a major military battle ...

Sure that action just made Indonesia navy so respected by every armies in the world... Well nothing new here, that how Indonesia army fight for decades (always 10-30 against 1) and the proofs are all in the hstory books about the past Indonesian conflicts (Aceh, Papua, East Timor, ect...). I won't be surprise if the Indonesian Navy will start using your submarines to sink fishing boats and VN coast guard boats. Such a legendary bravery...



Viet said:


> Why navy with big guns? Where is your coast guard?
> Vietnam has large Eez waters. We have with Indonesia overlapping Eez waters around Natura. Foreign vessels intrude Vietnam waters regularly but I never heard of Vietnamese warships firing on foreign vessels.
> 
> I never heard either of Vietnam law enforcement vessels ramm foreign ships to kill everyone onboard. Only primitive people resort to violence.
> 
> View attachment 545465


 That's not primitive, that's pure COWARDICE.


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## Aqsuperman

warzone said:


> Wow what bunch of tough guys, sending a military navy corvette against a coast guard ship and that idiot officer is talking like the just won a major military battle ...
> 
> Sure that action just made Indonesia navy so respected by every armies in the world... Well nothing new here, that how Indonesia army fight for decades (always 10-30 against 1) and the proofs are all in the hstory books about the past Indonesian conflicts (Aceh, Papua, East Timor, ect...). I won't be surprise if the Indonesian Navy will start using your submarines to sink fishing boats and VN coast guard boats. Such a legendary bravery...
> 
> 
> That's not primitive, that's pure COWARDICE.



The Indonesian already drop the issue and leave the thread. It's best that we don't try to create more animosity than we need to.


----------



## Viet

Beautiful training vessel of Imperial Japanese Navy in Vietnam

JS Setoyuki





@Suika

Surprise visit to Tokyo

Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnamese People’s Army Phan Van Giang pays a special visit to Admiral Katsutoshi Kawano, Chief of Staff of the Japanese Army on March 4.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Why navy with big guns? Where is your coast guard?
> Vietnam has large Eez waters. We have with Indonesia overlapping Eez waters around Natura. Foreign vessels intrude Vietnam waters regularly but I never heard of Vietnamese warships firing on foreign vessels.
> 
> I never heard either of Vietnam law enforcement vessels ramm foreign ships to kill everyone onboard. Only primitive people resort to violence.
> 
> View attachment 545465


Can't believe you already forget how I humiliated you last time by saying the US even uses its aircraft carrier for patrol against illegal fishing.

https://m.sandiegoreader.com/weblog...vy-carrier-group-hunts-for-illegal-fishermen/

LOW INTELLIGENCE VIETNAMESE STRIKES AGAIN.

If you suffered from Alzheimer please refrain from using the internet.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Incoming news about Indonesia "domestic affair"
> 
> "As many as 15 people are feared to have been killed in a firefight between Indonesian soldiers and Papuan independence fighters, adding to more than two dozen deaths in the simmering conflict since November."
> 
> "Aidi claimed the soldiers had arrived in the area to guard work on the trans Papua highway and the attack was unprovoked. According to Sambom, the soldiers had burned traditional dwellings and interrogated villagers."
> 
> "An insurgency has simmered in Papua, which makes up the western half of the island of New Guinea, since the early 1960s when Indonesia annexed the Dutch-controlled territory.
> 
> Discrimination against indigenous Papuans and abuses by Indonesian police and military have drawn renewed attention globally as Indonesia campaigns for membership in the UN’s human rights watchdog.
> 
> The exiled leader of the Papuan independence movement, Benny Wenda, in January presented a 1.8m-signature petition calling for self-determination to the UN human rights chief in Geneva."
> 
> Yeah that sure make domestic affair in Indonesia "far superior" than Vietnam. Man, we never have a shooting skirmishes in our soils since the 1990s. The Indonesian Armed Forces in the 21st century manage to brew an ongoing insurrection while the Vietnam People Army fail to have one. That sure make me feel shameful about how "weak" our army is nowadays.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/08/west-papua-independence-deaths-battle-indonesia
> 
> Yeah.... I was joking :v


I guess Israel & Russia sucks then because they also have the same problems as indonesia? 

Can't believe the virtue signaling of the vietnamese posters over here. Vietnam is a literal stain on human rights in general: https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/03/04/eu-press-vietnam-rights-record

You guys even worse than we are but have the galls to point a finger at us.

In here you can at least appeal to the court.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Aqsuperman

Correction folks. One Indonesian remain in our thread. Let's give him oir warmest welcome, shall we?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Can't believe you already forget how I humiliated you last time by saying the US even uses its aircraft carrier for patrol against illegal fishing.
> 
> https://m.sandiegoreader.com/weblog...vy-carrier-group-hunts-for-illegal-fishermen/
> 
> LOW INTELLIGENCE VIETNAMESE STRIKES AGAIN.
> 
> If you suffered from Alzheimer please refrain from using the internet.



Humiliated? Yeah that was funny when we literally bash you and your fellow countryman more than 100 times in this thread. Your reason is lame, unfounded and sideshow into part time insults than civilized argument. I figure that is normal in a barbaric country that use snake to interrogate suspects. 

BTW, you link doesn't work: https://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblog...vy-carrier-group-hunts-for-illegal-fishermen/

"*Page not found*
The requested page could not be found.

You may have followed a broken or outdated link, or may have made a typo. You should check the URL or take a look at our Site Map, which may show you what you were looking for."

I search for keywords from the link but not a single relevant result come up. Kindly post us the content of the article if possible. For the US to use its hammer to hit flies is quite unusual in my ears.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> I guess Israel & Russia sucks then because they also have the same problems as indonesia?
> 
> Can't believe the virtue signaling of the vietnamese posters over here. Vietnam is a literal stain on human rights in general: https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/03/04/eu-press-vietnam-rights-record
> 
> You guys even worse than we are but have the galls to point a finger at us.
> 
> In here you can at least appeal to the court.



Actually, if what Israel and Russia face occur in Indonesia, your country would crumble overnight. Rebels in Indonesia receive non existence supports from other countries, have no access to steady military supplies (unless your army have some on sale) and finally, they only have crappy rifles.

If you feeble mind could remember, you Indonesian claim that Vietnam domestic affair is "pathetic" (your word) compared to Indonesia. So it's a comparison between Vietnam (no rebel) and Indonesia (has a "safe heaven" for rebel with ongoing insurrection). Don't talk as if we Vietnamese are the ones that compare Indonesian against the world (though I dare say the world is doing far better than Indonesia in the war on terrorist)

Vietnam is a stain on human rights? Then I guess Indonesia already burnt the human right guide book and bury the ash. We could not drop as low as using snake to torture criminals, that for sure. Remember the link I post earlier? About a guy that got arrested for singing a song that anger some government officials and need to head to the court. Yeah in Vietnam, you must do something WAY bigger than than in order to be classified as a offense. But I guess Indonesian kangaroo courts have plenty of free time on their hand to go after something as TRIVIAL as a SONG. A FCKING SONG. SERIOUSLY? You guys post people around the clock to search the Internet for that kind of stuff?

Appeal to the court? Does it work? I bet it look worthless since:

"Although the country has had national human rights institutions, the National Commission on Human Rights, the commission itself has little effect as it was not given any legal teeth against discriminatory practices committed by the government"

"The police used unnecessary and excessive force against demonstrators and protesters, especially in land dispute cases. In the rare instances where investigations took place, little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice.


In January, six palm oil farmers were seriously injured in Jambi Province after Police Mobile Brigade (Brimob) officers fired rubber bullets at them in an attempt to evict them from a plantation they were working on. The plantation was the subject of an ongoing land dispute between the farmers and a palm oil company.
In June, security forces used unnecessary and excessive force while attempting to forcibly evict a community in Langkat district, North Sumatra. The community had been involved in a land dispute with the local authorities. When the community protested against the eviction, police officers fired on the crowd without warning, injuring at least nine people. Six others were kicked and beaten."
"In January 2018, the Aceh police ransacked a parlor with support from the Aceh autonomous government. The police tortured all LGBT citizens within the premises of the parlor, shaved the heads of transgender women, stripped their shirts and bras, and paraded them in the street while forcing to shout 'to become men'. The event caused massive outrage from human rights organization throughout the world, from Europe, Australia, the Americas, and to liberal sections of Asia. In February 2018, the Indonesian government planned to pass a legislation that would criminalize gay sex. The legislation is supported by all of the 10 political parties of the country, and is expected to pass before Valentines Day. Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia"

Man, those appeals you mentioned must have been "pretty effective".

To sum it up, Vietnam is not ideal but Indonesia is the country that fall below Vietnam in every manner beside economy. Period. Civil management? Suck. Treatment toward people with different opinion? Crap. Human right? A joke. Come back and say otherwise when:

1. You have no more rebels in your country.
2. You stop locking people in cage with snakes.
3. You no longer prosecute people for a song with "anti-government content".


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Correction folks. One Indonesian remain in our thread. Let's give him oir warmest welcome, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> Humiliated? Yeah that was funny when we literally bash you and your fellow countryman more than 100 times in this thread. Your reason is lame, unfounded and sideshow into part time insults than civilized argument. I figure that is normal in a barbaric country that use snake to interrogate suspects.
> 
> BTW, you link doesn't work: https://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblog...vy-carrier-group-hunts-for-illegal-fishermen/
> 
> "*Page not found*
> The requested page could not be found.
> 
> You may have followed a broken or outdated link, or may have made a typo. You should check the URL or take a look at our Site Map, which may show you what you were looking for."
> 
> I search for keywords from the link but not a single relevant result come up. Kindly post us the content of the article if possible. For the US to use its hammer to hit flies is quite unusual in my ears.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, if what Israel and Russia face occur in Indonesia, your country would crumble overnight. Rebels in Indonesia receive non existence supports from other countries, have no access to steady military supplies (unless your army have some on sale) and finally, they only have crappy rifles.
> 
> If you feeble mind could remember, you Indonesian claim that Vietnam domestic affair is "pathetic" (your word) compared to Indonesia. So it's a comparison between Vietnam (no rebel) and Indonesia (has a "safe heaven" for rebel with ongoing insurrection). Don't talk as if we Vietnamese are the ones that compare Indonesian against the world (though I dare say the world is doing far better than Indonesia in the war on terrorist)
> 
> Vietnam is a stain on human rights? Then I guess Indonesia already burnt the human right guide book and bury the ash. We could not drop as low as using snake to torture criminals, that for sure. Remember the link I post earlier? About a guy that got arrested for singing a song that anger some government officials and need to head to the court. Yeah in Vietnam, you must do something WAY bigger than than in order to be classified as a offense. But I guess Indonesian kangaroo courts have plenty of free time on their hand to go after something as TRIVIAL as a SONG. A FCKING SONG. SERIOUSLY? You guys post people around the clock to search the Internet for that kind of stuff?
> 
> Appeal to the court? Does it work? I bet it look worthless since:
> 
> "Although the country has had national human rights institutions, the National Commission on Human Rights, the commission itself has little effect as it was not given any legal teeth against discriminatory practices committed by the government"
> 
> "The police used unnecessary and excessive force against demonstrators and protesters, especially in land dispute cases. In the rare instances where investigations took place, little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice.
> 
> 
> In January, six palm oil farmers were seriously injured in Jambi Province after Police Mobile Brigade (Brimob) officers fired rubber bullets at them in an attempt to evict them from a plantation they were working on. The plantation was the subject of an ongoing land dispute between the farmers and a palm oil company.
> In June, security forces used unnecessary and excessive force while attempting to forcibly evict a community in Langkat district, North Sumatra. The community had been involved in a land dispute with the local authorities. When the community protested against the eviction, police officers fired on the crowd without warning, injuring at least nine people. Six others were kicked and beaten."
> "In January 2018, the Aceh police ransacked a parlor with support from the Aceh autonomous government. The police tortured all LGBT citizens within the premises of the parlor, shaved the heads of transgender women, stripped their shirts and bras, and paraded them in the street while forcing to shout 'to become men'. The event caused massive outrage from human rights organization throughout the world, from Europe, Australia, the Americas, and to liberal sections of Asia. In February 2018, the Indonesian government planned to pass a legislation that would criminalize gay sex. The legislation is supported by all of the 10 political parties of the country, and is expected to pass before Valentines Day. Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia"
> 
> Man, those appeals you mentioned must have been "pretty effective".
> 
> To sum it up, Vietnam is not ideal but Indonesia is the country that fall below Vietnam in every manner beside economy. Period. Civil management? Suck. Treatment toward people with different opinion? Crap. Human right? A joke. Come back and say otherwise when:
> 
> 1. You have no more rebels in your country.
> 2. You stop locking people in cage with snakes.
> 3. You no longer prosecute people for a song with "anti-government content".



This came from a retard that's happy because vietnam get chosen as a venue for a failed negotiation? It's not like we have hosted hundreds of similar high profiled summits in the past. Right? 

https://m.sandiegoreader.com/weblog...vy-carrier-group-hunts-for-illegal-fishermen/
View attachment 545768

It is a well known fact that the navy also pull double duty for the coast guard. Argentine used their navy to stop chinese boats for example. They also shoot directly at ships. Not a warning shot like us... Wonder what you think about them? 

Except aceh have malaysia's backing during the insurrection & the papuan have the australian backing them for quite a while now. No the real reason we're still around is we're just that good. If you want to see actual incompetence of dealing with rebellion look at myanmar. Israel & Russian non-state actors also doesn't have steady access to armaments. Beside Hezbollah. Also india fares worse than us in handling their terrorism we never accuse them of incompetence.

Again? Let's say this one more time okay? 

YOU [emoji122] DON'T [emoji122] REALLY [emoji122] CARE [emoji122] ABOUT[emoji122] HUMAN[emoji122] RIGHTS[emoji122] CAUSE [emoji122] IF [emoji122] YOU[emoji122] DO[emoji122] YOU [emoji122] WOULD [emoji122] LOOK [emoji122] AT [emoji122] YOUR [emoji122] COUNTRY [emoji122] FIRST

Viet at least knows he's smart enough not to dig his own grave. Do you really want to die on this hill?

Also how nice of you to not read the fucking links:
"During 2018, Vietnamese authorities convicted at least 42 rights activists and bloggers under various abusive laws, almost triple the number of convictions in 2017, including Le Dinh Luong (20 years), Luu Van Vinh (15 years), Hoang Duc Binh (14 years), Nguyen Quoc Hoan (13 years), Nguyen Van Tuc (13 years), Nguyen Trung Truc (12 years), Nguyen Trung Ton (12 years), Truong Minh Duc (12 years), Vuong Van Tha (12 years), Nguyen Bac Truyen(11 years), Nguyen Van Duc Do (11 years), Tu Cong Nghia (10 years), and Tran Thi Xuan (9 years)."

This just the bloggers & human rights advocates

"Vietnam

Vietnam’s human rights record remains dire in all areas. The Communist Party maintains a monopoly on political power and allows no challenge to its leadership. Basic rights, including freedom of speech, opinion, press, association, and religion, are restricted. Rights activists and bloggers face harassment, intimidation, physical assault, and imprisonment. Farmers continue to lose land to development projects without adequate compensation, and workers are not allowed to form independent unions. The police use torture and beatings to extract confessions. The criminal justice system lacks independence. State-run drug rehabilitation centers exploit detainees as laborers making goods for local markets and export. Nevertheless, increasing numbers of bloggers and activists have called publicly for democracy and greater freedoms."

https://www.hrw.org/asia/vietnam

Meanwhile the police officer that used snake for interrogation were forced to apologize & Robert only faces 18 months in jail with chance for an early release & appeal. In indonesia human rights violations are recorded because we have relatively strong press & human rights advocates compared to every country in the regions. God knows what vietnam have to defend human rights in the country.

Nobody ever said we are perfect but we are certainly better than your in human rights, press freedom, economy, labor rights.... You know what we are BETTER than you.


----------



## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This came from a retard that's happy because vietnam get chosen as a venue for a failed negotiation? It's not like we have hosted hundreds of similar high profiled summits in the past. Right?
> 
> https://m.sandiegoreader.com/weblog...vy-carrier-group-hunts-for-illegal-fishermen/
> View attachment 545768
> It is a well known fact that the navy also pull double duty for the coast guard. Argentine used their navy to stop chinese boats for example. They also shoot directly at ships. Not a warning shot like us... Wonder what you think about them?
> 
> Except aceh have malaysia's backing during the insurrection & the papuan have the australian backing them for quite a while now. No the real reason we're still around is we're just that good. If you want to see actual incompetence of dealing with rebellion look at myanmar. Israel & Russian non-state actors also doesn't have steady access to armaments. Beside Hezbollah. Also india fares worse than us in handling their terrorism we never accuse them of incompetence.
> 
> Again? Let's say this one more time okay?
> 
> YOU
> 
> 
> 
> DON'T
> 
> 
> 
> REALLY
> 
> 
> 
> CARE
> 
> 
> 
> ABOUT
> 
> 
> 
> HUMAN
> 
> 
> 
> RIGHTS
> 
> 
> 
> CAUSE
> 
> 
> 
> IF
> 
> 
> 
> YOU
> 
> 
> 
> DO
> 
> 
> 
> YOU
> 
> 
> 
> WOULD
> 
> 
> 
> LOOK
> 
> 
> 
> AT
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR
> 
> 
> 
> COUNTRY
> 
> 
> 
> FIRST
> 
> Viet at least knows he's smart enough not to dig his own grave. Do you really want to die on this hill?
> 
> Also how nice of you to not read the fucking links:
> "During 2018, Vietnamese authorities convicted at least 42 rights activists and bloggers under various abusive laws, almost triple the number of convictions in 2017, including Le Dinh Luong (20 years), Luu Van Vinh (15 years), Hoang Duc Binh (14 years), Nguyen Quoc Hoan (13 years), Nguyen Van Tuc (13 years), Nguyen Trung Truc (12 years), Nguyen Trung Ton (12 years), Truong Minh Duc (12 years), Vuong Van Tha (12 years), Nguyen Bac Truyen(11 years), Nguyen Van Duc Do (11 years), Tu Cong Nghia (10 years), and Tran Thi Xuan (9 years)."
> 
> This just the bloggers & human rights advocates
> 
> "Vietnam
> 
> Vietnam’s human rights record remains dire in all areas. The Communist Party maintains a monopoly on political power and allows no challenge to its leadership. Basic rights, including freedom of speech, opinion, press, association, and religion, are restricted. Rights activists and bloggers face harassment, intimidation, physical assault, and imprisonment. Farmers continue to lose land to development projects without adequate compensation, and workers are not allowed to form independent unions. The police use torture and beatings to extract confessions. The criminal justice system lacks independence. State-run drug rehabilitation centers exploit detainees as laborers making goods for local markets and export. Nevertheless, increasing numbers of bloggers and activists have called publicly for democracy and greater freedoms."
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/asia/vietnam
> 
> Meanwhile the police officer that used snake for interrogation were forced to apologize & Robert only faces 18 months in jail with chance for an early release & appeal. In indonesia human rights violations are recorded because we have relatively strong press & human rights advocates compared to every country in the regions. God knows what vietnam have to defend human rights in the country.
> 
> Nobody ever said we are perfect but we are certainly better than your in human rights, press freedom, economy, labor rights.... You know what we are BETTER than you.



A. LONG. UNINTELLIGIBLE. RAMBLING. FROM. A. INDONESIAN. THAT FAIL. TO .COMPREHEND. HUMAN. WORDS

"Except aceh have malaysia's backing during the insurrection & the papuan have the australian backing them for quite a while now. No the real reason we're still around is we're just that good. If you want to see actual incompetence of dealing with rebellion look at myanmar. Israel & Russian non-state actors also doesn't have steady access to armaments. Beside Hezbollah. Also india fares worse than us in handling their terrorism we never accuse them of incompetence."

Oh the mighty Indonesian could not handle a couple of insurrection groups that receive what tanks? airplane? surface-to-air missile? Oh no, they have Cold War era weapon at best. In the 21st century, Indonesia is getting their *** kicked by rebels that lack modern weapon. You said that your country is still around because your army is good at stopping rebel from taking over the country. In fact, it goes the other way around: Your army SUCKS BALL because they fail to exterminate a few tiny group of rebels in the 21st century. Once again, don't compare your country with others as they face far larger problem than you and so far, they are doing fine. You guys? Whenever i read news about how ill-armed Papua rebels wasted MODERNIZED Indonesian soldiers, I crack up in tears...because I'm unable to contain my laughs 

BTW, you sure your brain is not filled with tumors? Because as far as I'm remember, you Indonesian bring up the subject of human right first and let's see what Indonesian have to offer:

Violence gains minority: Check
Homophobic extremists with support of the government beat up LGBT: Check
People got locked up for singing a song: Check

In rerun, Vietnam only lock up some people for a few dozens of years. And that what make us worse than you? WHAT. A. JOKE.

YOU GUYS KILL YOUR OWN PEOPLE IN COLD BLOOD. WE DON'T
YOU GUYS ALLOW REBEL TO FLOURISH IN YOUR BORDER. WE DON'T
YOU GUYS LOCK PEOPLE UP IN CAGE WITH SNAKE. WE DON'T
YOU GUYS ARREST PEOPLE BECAUSE OF A FCKING SONG. WE DON'T
FINALLY, YOU GUYS LIKE TO COMPARE INDONESIA WITH OTHER BUT FAIL TO SAY YOUR OWN SHORTCOMINGS. WE DON'T

Those are a lot of do for Indonesian and a lot of don't for Vietnamese. Stop smoking weeds to see some hard cold truths. "We are certainly better than you"? Oh you mean you could hurt your people far more better than us?

LET HEART IT AGAIN, FOLKS. EXPLAIN HOW THESE EVENTS CORRESPOND TO THE "RELATIVE STRONG PRESS AND HUMAN RIGHT ADVOCATES"

"Although the country has had national human rights institutions, the National Commission on Human Rights, the commission itself has little effect as it was not given any legal teeth against discriminatory practices committed by the government"

"The police used unnecessary and excessive force against demonstrators and protesters, especially in land dispute cases. In the rare instances where investigations took place, little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice.


In January, six palm oil farmers were seriously injured in Jambi Province after Police Mobile Brigade (Brimob) officers fired rubber bullets at them in an attempt to evict them from a plantation they were working on. The plantation was the subject of an ongoing land dispute between the farmers and a palm oil company.
In June, security forces used unnecessary and excessive force while attempting to forcibly evict a community in Langkat district, North Sumatra. The community had been involved in a land dispute with the local authorities. When the community protested against the eviction, police officers fired on the crowd without warning, injuring at least nine people. Six others were kicked and beaten."
"In January 2018, the Aceh police ransacked a parlor with support from the Aceh autonomous government. The police tortured all LGBT citizens within the premises of the parlor, shaved the heads of transgender women, stripped their shirts and bras, and paraded them in the street while forcing to shout 'to become men'. The event caused massive outrage from human rights organization throughout the world, from Europe, Australia, the Americas, and to liberal sections of Asia. In February 2018, the Indonesian government planned to pass a legislation that would criminalize gay sex. The legislation is supported by all of the 10 political parties of the country, and is expected to pass before Valentines Day. Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia"

Here are some key words for you, in case your brain fail to process too much information at a time: "unnecessary and excessive force", "little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice", "Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia", "police officers fired on the crowd without warning"... Bet your mother A-S-S you would not find these keywords with Vietnam near them.

P/s: This will never end unless you run back to where you come from with your tail behind your leg like your "uhuhuhuhuhu" friend striver-whatever. This is OUR thread. You want to play? I'm game all day.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This came from a retard that's happy because vietnam get chosen as a venue for a failed negotiation? It's not like we have hosted hundreds of similar high profiled summits in the past. Right?
> 
> https://m.sandiegoreader.com/weblog...vy-carrier-group-hunts-for-illegal-fishermen/
> View attachment 545768
> 
> It is a well known fact that the navy also pull double duty for the coast guard. Argentine used their navy to stop chinese boats for example. They also shoot directly at ships. Not a warning shot like us... Wonder what you think about them?
> 
> Except aceh have malaysia's backing during the insurrection & the papuan have the australian backing them for quite a while now. No the real reason we're still around is we're just that good. If you want to see actual incompetence of dealing with rebellion look at myanmar. Israel & Russian non-state actors also doesn't have steady access to armaments. Beside Hezbollah. Also india fares worse than us in handling their terrorism we never accuse them of incompetence.
> 
> Again? Let's say this one more time okay?
> 
> YOU [emoji122] DON'T [emoji122] REALLY [emoji122] CARE [emoji122] ABOUT[emoji122] HUMAN[emoji122] RIGHTS[emoji122] CAUSE [emoji122] IF [emoji122] YOU[emoji122] DO[emoji122] YOU [emoji122] WOULD [emoji122] LOOK [emoji122] AT [emoji122] YOUR [emoji122] COUNTRY [emoji122] FIRST
> 
> Viet at least knows he's smart enough not to dig his own grave. Do you really want to die on this hill?
> 
> Also how nice of you to not read the fucking links:
> "During 2018, Vietnamese authorities convicted at least 42 rights activists and bloggers under various abusive laws, almost triple the number of convictions in 2017, including Le Dinh Luong (20 years), Luu Van Vinh (15 years), Hoang Duc Binh (14 years), Nguyen Quoc Hoan (13 years), Nguyen Van Tuc (13 years), Nguyen Trung Truc (12 years), Nguyen Trung Ton (12 years), Truong Minh Duc (12 years), Vuong Van Tha (12 years), Nguyen Bac Truyen(11 years), Nguyen Van Duc Do (11 years), Tu Cong Nghia (10 years), and Tran Thi Xuan (9 years)."
> 
> This just the bloggers & human rights advocates
> 
> "Vietnam
> 
> Vietnam’s human rights record remains dire in all areas. The Communist Party maintains a monopoly on political power and allows no challenge to its leadership. Basic rights, including freedom of speech, opinion, press, association, and religion, are restricted. Rights activists and bloggers face harassment, intimidation, physical assault, and imprisonment. Farmers continue to lose land to development projects without adequate compensation, and workers are not allowed to form independent unions. The police use torture and beatings to extract confessions. The criminal justice system lacks independence. State-run drug rehabilitation centers exploit detainees as laborers making goods for local markets and export. Nevertheless, increasing numbers of bloggers and activists have called publicly for democracy and greater freedoms."
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/asia/vietnam
> 
> Meanwhile the police officer that used snake for interrogation were forced to apologize & Robert only faces 18 months in jail with chance for an early release & appeal. In indonesia human rights violations are recorded because we have relatively strong press & human rights advocates compared to every country in the regions. God knows what vietnam have to defend human rights in the country.
> 
> Nobody ever said we are perfect but we are certainly better than your in human rights, press freedom, economy, labor rights.... You know what we are BETTER than you.


When PH sent warship to arrest CN fishing boats in Scabourough , CN also sent her warships there and took the scarborough shoal from PH.

So, when ID send warship to VN-ID dispute zone, then VN sub marine Kilos also have the right to sink your warship. Our Kilos r just busy wt CN navy now, so your warships still not be sunk yet. No one will support ID when your warship is sunk in disputed zone, just like no one support PH when she lost Scaborough cos PH sent warship to threaten CN fishing boast first.

As I know, ID navy has No thing strong enough to attack VN sub marine Kilos.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> A. LONG. UNINTELLIGIBLE. RAMBLING. FROM. A. INDONESIAN. THAT FAIL. TO .COMPREHEND. HUMAN. WORDS
> 
> "Except aceh have malaysia's backing during the insurrection & the papuan have the australian backing them for quite a while now. No the real reason we're still around is we're just that good. If you want to see actual incompetence of dealing with rebellion look at myanmar. Israel & Russian non-state actors also doesn't have steady access to armaments. Beside Hezbollah. Also india fares worse than us in handling their terrorism we never accuse them of incompetence."
> 
> Oh the mighty Indonesian could not handle a couple of insurrection groups that receive what tanks? airplane? surface-to-air missile? Oh no, they have Cold War era weapon at best. In the 21st century, Indonesia is getting their *** kicked by rebels that lack modern weapon. You said that your country is still around because your army is good at stopping rebel from taking over the country. In fact, it goes the other way around: Your army SUCKS BALL because they fail to exterminate a few tiny group of rebels in the 21st century. Once again, don't compare your country with others as they face far larger problem than you and so far, they are doing fine. You guys? Whenever i read news about how ill-armed Papua rebels wasted MODERNIZED Indonesian soldiers, I crack up in tears...because I'm unable to contain my laughs
> 
> BTW, you sure your brain is not filled with tumors? Because as far as I'm remember, you Indonesian bring up the subject of human right first and let's see what Indonesian have to offer:
> 
> Violence gains minority: Check
> Homophobic extremists with support of the government beat up LGBT: Check
> People got locked up for singing a song: Check
> 
> In rerun, Vietnam only lock up some people for a few dozens of years. And that what make us worse than you? WHAT. A. JOKE.
> 
> YOU GUYS KILL YOUR OWN PEOPLE IN COLD BLOOD. WE DON'T
> YOU GUYS ALLOW REBEL TO FLOURISH IN YOUR BORDER. WE DON'T
> YOU GUYS LOCK PEOPLE UP IN CAGE WITH SNAKE. WE DON'T
> YOU GUYS ARREST PEOPLE BECAUSE OF A FCKING SONG. WE DON'T
> FINALLY, YOU GUYS LIKE TO COMPARE INDONESIA WITH OTHER BUT FAIL TO SAY YOUR OWN SHORTCOMINGS. WE DON'T
> 
> Those are a lot of do for Indonesian and a lot of don't for Vietnamese. Stop smoking weeds to see some hard cold truths. "We are certainly better than you"? Oh you mean you could hurt your people far more better than us?
> 
> LET HEART IT AGAIN, FOLKS. EXPLAIN HOW THESE EVENTS CORRESPOND TO THE "RELATIVE STRONG PRESS AND HUMAN RIGHT ADVOCATES"
> 
> "Although the country has had national human rights institutions, the National Commission on Human Rights, the commission itself has little effect as it was not given any legal teeth against discriminatory practices committed by the government"
> 
> "The police used unnecessary and excessive force against demonstrators and protesters, especially in land dispute cases. In the rare instances where investigations took place, little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice.
> 
> 
> In January, six palm oil farmers were seriously injured in Jambi Province after Police Mobile Brigade (Brimob) officers fired rubber bullets at them in an attempt to evict them from a plantation they were working on. The plantation was the subject of an ongoing land dispute between the farmers and a palm oil company.
> In June, security forces used unnecessary and excessive force while attempting to forcibly evict a community in Langkat district, North Sumatra. The community had been involved in a land dispute with the local authorities. When the community protested against the eviction, police officers fired on the crowd without warning, injuring at least nine people. Six others were kicked and beaten."
> "In January 2018, the Aceh police ransacked a parlor with support from the Aceh autonomous government. The police tortured all LGBT citizens within the premises of the parlor, shaved the heads of transgender women, stripped their shirts and bras, and paraded them in the street while forcing to shout 'to become men'. The event caused massive outrage from human rights organization throughout the world, from Europe, Australia, the Americas, and to liberal sections of Asia. In February 2018, the Indonesian government planned to pass a legislation that would criminalize gay sex. The legislation is supported by all of the 10 political parties of the country, and is expected to pass before Valentines Day. Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia"
> 
> Here are some key words for you, in case your brain fail to process too much information at a time: "unnecessary and excessive force", "little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice", "Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia", "police officers fired on the crowd without warning"... Bet your mother A-S-S you would not find these keywords with Vietnam near them.
> 
> P/s: This will never end unless you run back to where you come from with your tail behind your leg like your "uhuhuhuhuhu" friend striver-whatever. This is OUR thread. You want to play? I'm game all day.


The virtue signaling is strong here. Our human rights & everything else still better than yours. According to every parameter. So what that makes vietnam then? 

You can't change that facts. 

Of all people you guys seems to forget about how difficult guerilla warfare is. Also we can't use heavy artillery since east timor due to the civilian government restriction. FYI we're winning anyway so why brought this up? Seems kinda pointless.

And people in glass house shouldn't throw rock. The Vietnamese navy lost a naval skirmish in the 80s against chinese on speed boats. I think the you guys take the cake on incompetence.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_South_Reef_Skirmish

Vietnamese casualty: 
-	64 killed
-11 wounded
-9 captured
-2 armed transporters sunk
-1 landing craft destroyed

China's: 
-1 wounded. (Womp, womp) 

let me remind you again the chinese was on speadboats.

Look we all know you don't fool anyone here. You don't give a damn about the plight of human rights or indonesian in general. Especially when vietnam is already a human right basket case.

The real reason you use the human right cards is because you lost an argument on the legality of vietnam fishing in our territory. 

Why don't you just admit it. After all who are you trying to convince the vietnamese members here are more or less are just bunch of degenerates that couldn't care less about human rights especially. The indonesians don't care because they know you're faking it. Know your audience.


Viva_Viet said:


> When PH sent warship to arrest CN fishing boats in Scabourough , CN also sent her warships there and took the scarborough shoal from PH.
> 
> So, when ID send warship to VN-ID dispute zone, then VN sub marine Kilos also have the right to sink your warship. Our Kilos r just busy wt CN navy now, so your warships still not be sunk yet. No one will support ID when your warship is sunk in disputed zone, just like no one support PH when she lost Scaborough cos PH sent warship to threaten CN fishing boast first.
> 
> As I know, ID navy has No thing strong enough to attack VN sub marine Kilos.


We have an MPA designed for sub warfare & a better navy & airforce compared to yours. So really go ahead, shoot if you dare.


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## Suika

Viet said:


> Beautiful training vessel of Imperial Japanese Navy in Vietnam
> 
> JS Setoyuki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Suika
> 
> Surprise visit to Tokyo
> 
> Chief of the General Staff of the Vietnamese People’s Army Phan Van Giang pays a special visit to Admiral Katsutoshi Kawano, Chief of Staff of the Japanese Army on March 4.
> 
> View attachment 545685



JS Setoyuki is an old ship, but is OK since she comes as a training ship 

She didn't come alone but went with JS Shimayuki as well. About 390 personnel from both ships. They arrived at Da Nang on March 6th for a stay and will leave on March 9th.




http://vovworld.vn/ja-JP/ニュース/日本の海上自衛隊の練習艦タナンに寄港-729486.vov









__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2230116067050099

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## Aqsuperman

Ok let's analyze words by words



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The virtue signaling is strong here. Our human rights & everything else still better than yours. According to every parameter. So what that makes vietnam then?



"Every parameter"? You want to tell that to people in Ache and Papua right this moment? Consider what happen at those region right now, I dare say plenty of people there would disagree but I guess their opinion is irrelevant to you, right? 

Want a single piece of proof that Vietnam is better than Indonesia? BLOOD. Count how many Indonesian got slaughtered by Indonesia military and see the result. You could search "every parameter" you could get but you would find nothing about Vietnam security force open fire with live munition and rubber bullet on our people. Tear gas is as far as we dare to go but Indonesia, you guys sure get trigger happy from time to time.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Of all people you guys seems to forget about how difficult guerilla warfare is. Also we can't use heavy artillery since east timor due to the civilian government restriction. FYI we're winning anyway so why brought this up? Seems kinda pointless.



Vietnamese (including me) know everything that need to be known about "guerilla warfare". Guess what? The performance of Indonesian army still look kind of S-H-I-T.

"Winning"? As i recall, you guys have been "winning" in Papua for no less than 30 years. Every once in a while? Indonesia like "Peace is within reach", "The final rebels have been exterminated", "We have won the heart and mind of people in Papua",... Forget my directness but that sound lamer and lamer every time.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> And people in glass house shouldn't throw rock. The Vietnamese navy lost a naval skirmish in the 80s against chinese on speed boats. I think the you guys take the cake on incompetence.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_South_Reef_Skirmish
> 
> Vietnamese casualty:
> - 64 killed
> -11 wounded
> -9 captured
> -2 armed transporters sunk
> -1 landing craft destroyed
> 
> China's:
> -1 wounded. (Womp, womp)
> 
> let me remind you again the chinese was on speadboats.



Uh... sorry? I already tell you our soldier in that battle are pioneer with construction equipment, not front line troops with heavy weapon. With their sacrifice, we managed to secure our territory in the Spratly Island. Can't say the same about Indonesian soldiers that die in the 21st century in Papua as they keep dying and the situation remain unchanged. 

Plus, that thing happen the 1980s which is the last time we lost troops in skirmishes. Comparing a 1980s skirmish that end long ago to ongoing insurrection? You sense of time sure is good. Indonesian noways? Your troops keep stocking the body bag again and again and again and again... When will the killing end? NEVER. Since the 21st century Indonesia army SUCKS compared to the 21st century Vietnam Army when it come to dealing with terrorists. We could even go through the list of terror attack of both countries to prove that at least. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Look we all know you don't fool anyone here. You don't give a damn about the plight of human rights or indonesian in general. Especially when vietnam is already a human right basket case.
> 
> The real reason you use the human right cards is because you lost an argument on the legality of vietnam fishing in our territory.
> 
> Why don't you just admit it. After all who are you trying to convince the vietnamese members here are more or less are just bunch of degenerates that couldn't care less about human rights especially. The indonesians don't care because they know you're faking it. Know your audience



Well you get at least one thing right there: WE. DON'T. GIVE. ONE. FCK . ABOUT INDONESIA

This is the Vietnam Military Thread and believe me when I say we are pretty mellow fellows. We rarely go out of our way to crash the thread of others because of something flare up in the SCS. Did you see us go ham on the Indonesian in the forum because you unleash live ammunition near our Coast Guard?

No, we think "S-H-I-T happen, let's the officials sort it out". But guess what, Indonesian like you bash into our thread, pump your chest and scream: "Check out the coward Vietnamese. We shoot your boats. IN. YOUR. FACE". As usual, Indonesian unleash the first shot and as if we Vietnamese will let thing go the way you please.

"Lost an argument": I haven't lost crap. You "uhuhuhu" friend with slow-developed brain turn tail before I get to the bottom of things with him. You, on the other hand, insist that you side of story is always right. That is not an argument. That is you telling me to accept your point view and submit myself to your logic. AS IF THAT COULD WORK!

"more or less are just bunch of degenerates": Right, degenerates that have to welcome Indonesia "friends" that pop out from nowhere and crash our thread. You want us to serve milk and cookie? Beside, being called "degenerates" by people from a country that lock people in the same cage with snake, prosecute people because of a song and beat up minority ethic seem pretty amusing.

"The Indonesians don't care": You guys don't care about human right in Indonesia because that would admit that you guys run a freaking terrific government against other minorities. Sadly, people look over that every now and then so guess what they see? A pile of S-H-I-T  



Reashot Xigwin said:


> We have an MPA designed for sub warfare & a better navy & airforce compared to yours. So really go ahead, shoot if you dare.



Better than the Vietnam military in every regard...except the ability to stop dying in front of rebels armed with decade old rifles, right? Man that is one hell of a feat for the almighty Indonesian army with all of their "MPA designed for sub warfare & a better navy & airforce". Gosh to say that the such a invincible got their *** kicked by Papua rebels would be a unthinkable....Wait, they did die to the Papua rebels  

Now if you have your fill, kindly fck off. Create a fcking thread to brag about the superiority of Indonesian army against rebel and Vietnam fisherman. Our thread is not the place for you boast about what kind of dick Indonesian are.

Vietnam 9th Division recently receive a visit of the Indianian military delegation


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## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> We have an MPA designed for sub warfare & a better navy & airforce compared to yours. So really go ahead, shoot if you dare.


Then sink our coast guard ships first if your navy has the guts. What is the use of sending warship,but dare not shoot the VN coast guard ships ??

Stupid guy like u love to talk big, show ppl here if ID army have any weapon can harm out Kilos first while it so clear that VN Kilos can attack any ID naval ports wt land attack misslie and sail back without any problem



Aqsuperman said:


> ? Man that is one hell of a feat for the almighty Indonesian army with all of their "MPA designed for sub warfare & a better navy & airforce". Gosh to say that the such a invincible got their *** kicked by Papua rebels would be a unthinkable....Wait, they did die to the Papua rebels
> 
> Now if you have your fill, kindly fck off. Create a fcking thread to brag about the superiority of Indonesian army against rebel and Vietnam fisherman. Our thread is not the place for you boast about what kind of dick Indonesian are.
> 
> Vietnam 9th Division recently receive a visit of the Indianian military delegation


Good to have fun wt that barbarian, want an arm race wt VN ?? Then the barbarian need to buy 6 sub marine that have same power wt VN Kilos first

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Aqsuperman

Viva_Viet said:


> Good to have fun wt that barbarian, want an arm race wt VN ?? Then the barbarian need to buy 6 sub marine that have same power wt VN Kilos first



They like show off their muscle to us while still could not take care of some tiny groups of rebels lol.

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## Viva_Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> They like show off their muscle to us while still could not take care of some tiny groups of rebels lol.


While such a search would test the capabilities of even larger navies, it has exposed some of Indonesia’s weaknesses, such as problems with night-time and all-weather searches and a lack of equipment to conduct sophisticated aerial maritime surveillance, said Mr Collin Koh, an associate research fellow at the S Rajaratnam School of International Studies in Singapore who studies the modernisation of South-east Asia’s navies.

The Indonesian Navy has 213 ships in total, including more than 70 patrol and coastal combatants, said Mr Brian Harding, director for East and South-east Asia at the Washington DC-based Center for American Progress, said in a World Politics Review interview published last month.

“However*, the sum is less than its parts, with fewer than half of the vessels combat-ready and most not well integrated,*” Mr Harding said

https://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/search-jet-exposes-indonesian-navys-limitations


more than half of ID warships cant fight in real Naval battle, the rest r not well integrated


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## KAL-EL

Viva_Viet said:


> Just wait and see US keep spanking CN. Its so clear that US want CN collapse like Soviet, so US can loot all CN properties like in Qing time



You really think so?

What about all properties owned by Jack Ma?


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## frequency

Viva_Viet said:


> Then sink our coast guard ships first if your navy has the guts. What is the use of sending warship,but dare not shoot the VN coast guard ships ??
> 
> Stupid guy like u love to talk big, show ppl here if ID army have any weapon can harm out Kilos first while it so clear that VN Kilos can attack any ID naval ports wt land attack misslie and sail back without any problem
> 
> 
> Good to have fun wt that barbarian, want an arm race wt VN ?? Then the barbarian need to buy 6 sub marine that have same power wt VN Kilos first



Indonesian army is sh1t. They are full of it.


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## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> Stupid guy like u love to talk big, show ppl here if ID army have any weapon can harm out Kilos first while it so clear that VN Kilos can attack any ID naval ports wt land attack misslie and sail back without any problem
> 
> 
> Good to have fun wt that barbarian, want an arm race wt VN ?? Then the barbarian need to buy 6 sub marine that have same power wt VN Kilos first



Oh boyy its nice to be back,
whats next?vietnamese bragging about 6 Kilo class sub (meanwhile indonesia now in final stage for another 3 sub =total 8 sub), scud missile ? Lol as if it can harm our big cities LoL, T90? Well we have 100 leopards against 64 T90s 

Hoahemmmm whats next viet? Those T90 will not be much help when we cuaght and burn your fishing fleet hehehehe. Peace



Viva_Viet said:


> When PH sent warship to arrest CN fishing boats in Scabourough , CN also sent her warships there and took the scarborough shoal from PH.
> 
> So, when ID send warship to VN-ID dispute zone, then VN sub marine Kilos also have the right to sink your warship. Our Kilos r just busy wt CN navy now, so your warships still not be sunk yet. No one will support ID when your warship is sunk in disputed zone, just like no one support PH when she lost Scaborough cos PH sent warship to threaten CN fishing boast first.
> 
> As I know, ID navy has No thing strong enough to attack VN sub marine Kilos.


Oh boyyyy im so excited for this hehehehehehehe, 6kilo subs against indonesian navy . Ok nice


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## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> Oh boyy its nice to be back,
> whats next?vietnamese bragging about 6 Kilo class sub (meanwhile indonesia now in final stage for another 3 sub =total 8 sub), scud missile ? Lol as if it can harm our big cities LoL, T90? Well we have 100 leopards against 64 T90s
> 
> Hoahemmmm whats next viet? Those T90 will not be much help when we cuaght and burn your fishing fleet hehehehe. Peace


The Indonesian Navy has 213 ships in total, including more than 70 patrol and coastal combatants, said Mr Brian Harding, director for East and South-east Asia at the Washington DC-based Center for American Progress, said in a World Politics Review interview published last month.

“However*, the sum is less than its parts, with fewer than half of the vessels combat-ready and most not well integrated,*” Mr Harding said

https://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/search-jet-exposes-indonesian-navys-limitations

More than hafl of ID ships are junks, the rest r not well integrated. We just need coast guard ship to slam your warship. Sink our coast guard ,dare u ?? Kilos under sea bed are waiting for a good excuse to sink the usless barbarain ships


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## striver44

This is what happens with most nov


Viva_Viet said:


> The Indonesian Navy has 213 ships in total, including more than 70 patrol and coastal combatants, said Mr Brian Harding, director for East and South-east Asia at the Washington DC-based Center for American Progress, said in a World Politics Review interview published last month.
> 
> “However*, the sum is less than its parts, with fewer than half of the vessels combat-ready and most not well integrated,*” Mr Harding said
> 
> https://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/search-jet-exposes-indonesian-navys-limitations
> 
> More than hafl of ID ships are junks, the rest r not well integrated. We just need coast guard ship to slam your warship. Sink our coast guard ,dare u ?? Kilos under sea bed are waiting for a good excuse to sink the usless barbarain ships : cool:


Oh yes baby we have so much junk, hehehee, dont forget that your vietnam navy still operate petya class boat hehehe and dont forget those second hand pohang corvette , osa class 1960s or so missile boat and most important ww2 hand me please LST. Very advanced much fear

This Kilo class submarine wet dream will vanish as fast as vietnam vanishing fishing fleet hehehe


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## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> This is what happens with most nov
> 
> Oh yes baby we have so much junk, hehehee, dont forget that your vietnam navy still operate petya class boat hehehe and dont forget those second hand pohang corvette , osa class 1960s or so missile boat and most important ww2 hand me please LST. Very advanced much fear


Yes.petya boats are junk, they cant harm "black hole" Kilos and ID junk ships also cant harm our Kilos too.

Everyone can see who will win when VN kilos attack ID port and sink ID junk ships.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> Then sink our coast guard ships first if your navy has the guts. What is the use of sending warship,but dare not shoot the VN coast guard ships ??
> 
> Stupid guy like u love to talk big, show ppl here if ID army have any weapon can harm out Kilos first while it so clear that VN Kilos can attack any ID naval ports wt land attack misslie and sail back without any problem
> 
> 
> Good to have fun wt that barbarian, want an arm race wt VN ?? Then the barbarian need to buy 6 sub marine that have same power wt VN Kilos first [emoji23]


Those kilos will be easily detectable if you decided to use it in the natuna sea where we actually have the equipment there to detect submarine & vietnamese surface fleets are not even close to our capability. You guys even slapped on a ground based gun on your ship. No need to tell you how effective they'll be in combat. 


Aqsuperman said:


> They like show off their muscle to us while still could not take care of some tiny groups of rebels lol.


There's only tiny groups of rebels left because the vast majority have already surrendered or defeated. You don't see acehnese rebels or moluccas rebels on the news anymore.

Papua is whole different animal. The terrains there make vietnamese jungle look like nothing. That's why we can comfortably said we can beat the vietnamese during the war if we because we have experience in papua.

& no we don't use the sticks as often when the carrots works betters.
154 OPM soldiers surrendered themselves during 2017.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nasion...pm-serahkan-diri-hasil-pendekatan-humanis-tni

https://m.detik.com/news/berita/d-3...tni-mereka-lihat-pembangunan-papua-makin-maju

There's a lot more cases like this one where hundred upon hundreds of OPM soldiers defected & not just their grunts but their generals. Mathias Wenda surrendered himselves last january.


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## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> Yes.petya boats are junk, they cant harm "black hole" Kilos and ID junk ships also cant harm our Kilos too.
> 
> Everyone can see who will win when VN kilos attack ID port and sink ID junk ships.


Yup seeing is believing, which kinda didnt happen till now lolololololol, well i appreciate your war fantasy but I think the more sane vietnam commander up above knows better about using 6 kilo class "black hole " against indonesian Navy. They know with their limited vessels they cant do shit about those poor vietnamese thief near natuna very sorry for that,

The same exageration happened when russia decide to station s300 and s400 air defence system in syria, most junkies think that syria is safe from coalition and israeli bombardment ....which is not the case, just like any exagerated russian weaponry. Sorry


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> Yes.petya boats are junk, they cant harm "black hole" Kilos and ID junk ships also cant harm our Kilos too.
> 
> Everyone can see who will win when VN kilos attack ID port and sink ID junk ships.


A sub is not a wunderwaffe. There's limitations on submarine & most of them are fatal. For once submarine are slow as F! The moment a sub open fire you just give away your position. 

Fun fact: kilos were tested in indonesian water & was found to be too big to be used here. So that pretty much limit where they can operate. 

Also we have 4th U-boat Coming with the same capability of the Kilo. Does that count?


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> A sub is not a wunderwaffe. There's limitations on submarine & most of them are fatal. For once submarine are slow as F! The moment a sub open fire you just give away your position.
> 
> Fun fact: kilos were tested in indonesian water & was found to be too big to be used here. So that pretty much limit where they can operate.
> 
> Also we have 4th U-boat Coming with the same capability of the Kilo. Does that count?


Can you detect VN submarine’s position if 300 km away? What if the sub fires a missile when submerged? Do you have planes or sats available everywhere? Vietnamese has 6 but can increase the submarines in a short time if required. We now focus on economy not war. Besides, Indonesia submarines are too weak. One single Kilo has enough weapons onboard to give a dead blow to your naval fleet. The Kilo is designed to hit to kill. Not for parade. The sub has Kalibr, this highly maneuverable, long range cruise missiles fly at Mach 3 when approaching targets. Your surface warships have no defense against such threat. I give 50:50 chance for US and Chinese destroyers and cruisers to intercept the Kalibr. But the Kilo seldom fires one missile. At least two will be fired to overwhelm enemy air defense. Having said that reminding you to stop playing a game of provocation.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Can you detect VN submarine’s position if 300 km away? What if the sub fires a missile when submerged? Do you have planes or sats available everywhere? Vietnamese has 6 but can increase the submarines in a short time if required. We now focus on economy not war. Besides, Indonesia submarines are too weak. One single Kilo has enough weapons onboard to give a dead blow to your naval fleet. The Kilo is designed to hit to kill. Not for parade. The sub has Kalibr, this highly maneuverable, long range cruise missiles fly at Mach 3 when approaching targets. Your surface warships have no defense against such threat. I give 50:50 chance for US and Chinese destroyers and cruisers to intercept the Kalibr. But the Kilo seldom fires one missile. At least two will be fired to overwhelm enemy air defense. Having said that reminding you to stop playing a game of provocation.
> 
> 
> View attachment 545987


A cruise missile will just makes it easier to detect because the subs have to stay still below the surface of the water with jet trails pointing where its last known location. The 6 subs might as well be for parade. It will not be able to pass the natuna sea defense. 

Speaking of subs indonesia nagapasa class are equipped with the black shark torpedoes (best one on the market).

It can't be detected by current vietnamese sonar.


----------



## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> Yup seeing is believing, which kinda didnt happen till now lolololololol, well i appreciate your war fantasy but I think the more sane vietnam commander up above knows better about using 6 kilo class "black hole " against indonesian Navy. They know with their limited vessels they cant do shit about those poor vietnamese thief near natuna very sorry for that,
> 
> The same exageration happened when russia decide to station s300 and s400 air defence system in syria, most junkies think that syria is safe from coalition and israeli bombardment ....which is not the case, just like any exagerated russian weaponry. Sorry


We only send coast guard ships to VN-ID disputed water, and the water cannons from guard ships cant sink any ships.

If u wanna see our kilos sink your junk ships, then sink our coast guard first. ( what is the use of sending warship but dare not fight??) so we will have a good reason to launch the attack.

If u dare not, then just get used to wt VN guard ships slamming your junk ships



Reashot Xigwin said:


> A cruise missile will just makes it easier to detect because the subs have to stay still below the surface of the water with jet trails pointing where its last known location. The 6 subs might as well be for parade. It will not be able to pass the natuna sea defense.
> 
> Speaking of subs indonesia nagapasa class are equipped with the black shark torpedoes (best one on the market).
> 
> It can't be detected by current vietnamese sonar.


ID junk ships r not VN Kilos target yet cos our Kilos r usedto counter CN navy now. If u think Kilos r just for parade,then Sink our guardships in disputed zone, then wr will have good excuse to use the Kilos to attack ID. Then ID will have same fate wt Champa and Pol Pot when having Nothing to fight back Kilos destroying ID naval port


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> We only send coast guard ships to VN-ID disputed water, and the water cannons from guard ships cant sink any ships.
> 
> If u wanna see our kilos sink your junk ships, then sink our coast guard first. ( what is the use of sending warship but dare not fight??) so we will have a good reason to launch the attack.
> 
> If u dare not, then just get used to wt VN guard ships slamming your junk ships
> 
> 
> ID junk ships r not VN Kilos target yet cos our Kilos r usedto counter CN navy now. If u think Kilos r just for parade,then Sink our guardships in disputed zone, then ID will have same fate wt Champa and Pol Pot when having Nothing to fight back Kilos destroying ID naval port


Subs don't win war, asks the german. 

That means the only thing we need to do is destroy the 6 subs then vietnam is finished. Nice to know [emoji106]


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Subs don't win war, asks the german.
> 
> That means the only thing we need to do is destroy the 6 subs then vietnam is finished. Nice to know [emoji106]


We dont need to win the war in ID-VN disputed zone, our kilos just simply stay around 300km from Natuna base then fire the misssle to destroy the port, then ID cant send any more warship to the disputed zone any more


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> We dont need to win the war in ID-VN disputed zone, our kilos just simply stay around 300km from Natuna base then fire the misssle to destroy the port, then ID cant send any more warship to the disputed zone any more


Tough luck. The natuna base are protected by the millennium aa defense system. While our MPA can find your subs & sink them. 

Fun facts about the natuna its an island fortress with the infrastructure to strike at 5 different country if we so please. Think of it as an indonesian midway.


----------



## Aqsuperman

Great, look like we have ourselves a party going on and I'm almost late



striver44 said:


> Oh boyy its nice to be back,
> whats next?vietnamese bragging about 6 Kilo class sub (meanwhile indonesia now in final stage for another 3 sub =total 8 sub), scud missile ? Lol as if it can harm our big cities LoL, T90? Well we have 100 leopards against 64 T90s
> 
> Hoahemmmm whats next viet? Those T90 will not be much help when we cuaght and burn your fishing fleet hehehehe. Peace



Oh"uhuhuhu boy" is back and us Vietnamese are shaking....because we can't fcking believe the retard actually show his face back here.

"Harm our big cities": We will level them in a forth night after dishing about 50 Club-K missiles. Reason: Indonesia still relies on handheld air-to-surface missiles/auto cannon for air defense while we have actual SAMs. What could you do to protect your cities against missile attack? Yea. NOTHING

"8 subs": Sure, fossilized Type 209 and some Chang-Bogo have a high chance against Vietnam cruise missile-capable Kilo subs. Oh wait, they don't 

"100 leopards against 64 T90s": That is a whole new kind of stupidity you just spoke: Your Leopard are used 2A4 variant from German surplus store. Guess the year that the variant come from. A tip: it starts in 19 and end with 92 (at the latest). On the other hand, Vietnam T-90 is brand new and our variant receive benefit from 21st century technologies. Our T-90 will smoke your elderly Leopard any day of the week.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Those kilos will be easily detectable if you decided to use it in the natuna sea where we actually have the equipment there to detect submarine & vietnamese surface fleets are not even close to our capability. You guys even slapped on a ground based gun on your ship. No need to tell you how effective they'll be in combat.



We don't even have to get into Natuna to do some damages. Say hello to the missile era. "Slapped on a ground based gun on your ship"? Uh...you mean our Coast Guard ship with their Zu-23-2? Lol we use that to smash pirate boats. As if we bring those into a shooting war. In combat against foreign enemies, we rely on navy vessels with missile. Get your fact straight.



striver44 said:


> Yup seeing is believing, which kinda didnt happen till now lolololololol, well i appreciate your war fantasy but I think the more sane vietnam commander up above knows better about using 6 kilo class "black hole " against indonesian Navy. They know with their limited vessels they cant do shit about those poor vietnamese thief near natuna very sorry for that,
> 
> The same exageration happened when russia decide to station s300 and s400 air defence system in syria, most junkies think that syria is safe from coalition and israeli bombardment ....which is not the case, just like any exagerated russian weaponry. Sorry



Sure, our army cannot do much about but somehow or someway, Vietnam so far have not experienced terrorist attack and pirate raids. Oh you want to compare Vietnam Army against Indonesian Army? How about we list the number of terrorist attack in your country and mine. Let me start with some notable incidents first:

Last decade:
*12 October 2002* — The coordinated bomb attacks occurred on in the tourist district of Kuta, Bali. The attack was claimed as the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia according to the current police general, killing 202 people, (including 88 Australians, and 38 Indonesian citizens). A further 240 people were injured. Various members of Jemaah Islamiyah, a violent Islamist group, were convicted in relation to the bombings, including three individuals who were sentenced to death.
*
28 May 2005* — Two improvised explosive devices, set to explode 15 minutes apart, detonated during the morning at a market in the center of Tentena, Central Sulawesi, killing 22 and wounding at least 40 more.
*
1 October 2005* — Series of suicide bomb and a series of car bombs exploded at two sites in Jimbaran Beach Resort and in Kuta, Bali. The terrorist attack claimed the lives of 20 people and injured more than 100 others. The three bombers also died in the attacks.

This decade:
*9 May 2018* - Terrorism inmates in a detention center staged an riot resulting in the death of 5 police officers and one inmate. The detention center is heavily guarded compound of the local headquarters of the Mobile Brigade Corps, a paramilitary unit of the National Police, and it was guarded by elite counter-terrorism officers.
*
13 May 2018* - Suicide bombers, among them were a mother and her 2 kids, bombed 3 churches in Surabaya, killing and injuring dozens of people at night the bomb also shook of a apartment complex in Sidoarjo, at least 3 adults in a single apartment room were killed, while 3 children occupying the same room survived. All of them were from the same family.
*
14 May 2018* - Suicide bomb in police gate of City of Surabaya, At least 10 people, 4 policemen and 6 civilians, were wounded in the attack. 4 suicide bombers were killed
*
16 May 2018* - A police station in Pekanbaru, Riau was attacked by 5 attackers with swords. They arrived at the police station using a car. One of the attackers drove off after hitting and killing a police officer with the car, while 4 others attacked using swords which then injured 2 police officers. Four of the attackers were later killed while the driver was captured by the police.

Conclusion: Let's us applaud the effort of the Indonesian Army for doing one hell of a job in protecting their country from terrorists  What about "terrorism in Vietnam"? Yeah, nothing. White as a sheet.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> There's only tiny groups of rebels left because the vast majority have already surrendered or defeated. You don't see acehnese rebels or moluccas rebels on the news anymore.
> 
> Papua is whole different animal. The terrains there make vietnamese jungle look like nothing. That's why we can comfortably said we can beat the vietnamese during the war if we because we have experience in papua.
> 
> & no we don't use the sticks as often when the carrots works betters.
> 154 OPM soldiers surrendered themselves during 2017.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/nasion...pm-serahkan-diri-hasil-pendekatan-humanis-tni
> 
> https://m.detik.com/news/berita/d-3...tni-mereka-lihat-pembangunan-papua-makin-maju
> 
> There's a lot more cases like this one where hundred upon hundreds of OPM soldiers defected & not just their grunts but their generals. Mathias Wenda surrendered himselves last january.



"Vietnamese jungle look like nothing": Oh you have spent some years in Vietnamese jungle before? Because if you do, you would have know that what said is a pile of S-H-I-T. Experience ? Your experience mean NOTHING because if you know what are you doing, the fighting should stop a long time ago. Want to beat us in the Vietnam War while you could not handle a few dozens ill-equipped rebels right this moment? You must have smoked a good deal of weed to come to that half-baked conclusion: "Oh we fcking struggle right now with some rebels in Indonesia but if we got sent back in the Vietnam War, we could have won while having no experience whatsoever in dealing with with local climate, population, geography,.... "

Sound fcking hilarious on so many levels. Next thing you say would be "If we got send to Iraq back in 2014, we could have stopped the ISIS menace from the first place" lol. 

Moral story: Good at killing terrorist? Then you country should be free of terrorists. Your country still have terrorists in the 21st century but you claim that you could outperform others in the pasts? Well, your military SUCKS and you are a liar. Period. 




Reashot Xigwin said:


> Tough luck. The natuna base are protected by the millennium aa defense system. While our MPA can find your subs & sink them.
> 
> Fun facts about the natuna its an island fortress with the infrastructure to strike at 5 different country if we so please. Think of it as an indonesian midway.



Destroys us? sink us? With what? Indonesian hope and dream?

"Millennium aa defense system": Seriously? All you get is a couple of close in defense weapon? We could have strike everything within 200 kilometer radius with missiles from surface ships, jets and submarine and you think your base is safe with a couple of CIWS lol?

What is your best anti submarine weapon right now? Moreover, you think you could get close enough to our subs to use them without being terminated by a couple of missile salvos first?

"With the infrastructure to strike at 5 different country": Oh how scary...wait, strike other countries with what? I hope you don't mean with meats of Indonesian cows lol because you could barely push yourself to contain rebels, let alone engaging in a strike again other countries.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> Great, look like we have ourselves a party going on and I'm almost late
> 
> 
> 
> Oh"uhuhuhu boy" is back and us Vietnamese are shaking....because we can't fcking believe the retard actually show his face back here.
> 
> "Harm our big cities": We will level them in a forth night after dishing about 50 Club-K missiles. Reason: Indonesia still relies on handheld air-to-surface missiles/auto cannon for air defense while we have actual SAMs. What could you do to protect your cities against missile attack? Yea. NOTHING
> 
> "8 subs": Sure, fossilized Type 209 and some Chang-Bogo have a high chance against Vietnam cruise missile-capable Kilo subs. Oh wait, they don't
> 
> "100 leopards against 64 T90s": That is a whole new kind of stupidity you just spoke: Your Leopard are used 2A4 variant from German surplus store. Guess the year that the variant come from. A tip: it starts in 19 and end with 92 (at the latest). On the other hand, Vietnam T-90 is brand new and our variant receive benefit from 21st century technologies. Our T-90 will smoke your elderly Leopard any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't even have to get into Natuna to do some damages. Say hello to the missile era. "Slapped on a ground based gun on your ship"? Uh...you mean our Coast Guard ship with their Zu-23-2? Lol we use that to smash pirate boats. As if we bring those into a shooting war. In combat against foreign enemies, we rely on navy vessels with missile. Get your fact straight.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, our army cannot do much about but somehow or someway, Vietnam so far have not experienced terrorist attack and pirate raids. Oh you want to compare Vietnam Army against Indonesian Army? How about we list the number of terrorist attack in your country and mine. Let me start with some notable incidents first:
> 
> Last decade:
> *12 October 2002* — The coordinated bomb attacks occurred on in the tourist district of Kuta, Bali. The attack was claimed as the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia according to the current police general, killing 202 people, (including 88 Australians, and 38 Indonesian citizens). A further 240 people were injured. Various members of Jemaah Islamiyah, a violent Islamist group, were convicted in relation to the bombings, including three individuals who were sentenced to death.
> *
> 28 May 2005* — Two improvised explosive devices, set to explode 15 minutes apart, detonated during the morning at a market in the center of Tentena, Central Sulawesi, killing 22 and wounding at least 40 more.
> *
> 1 October 2005* — Series of suicide bomb and a series of car bombs exploded at two sites in Jimbaran Beach Resort and in Kuta, Bali. The terrorist attack claimed the lives of 20 people and injured more than 100 others. The three bombers also died in the attacks.
> 
> This decade:
> *9 May 2018* - Terrorism inmates in a detention center staged an riot resulting in the death of 5 police officers and one inmate. The detention center is heavily guarded compound of the local headquarters of the Mobile Brigade Corps, a paramilitary unit of the National Police, and it was guarded by elite counter-terrorism officers.
> *
> 13 May 2018* - Suicide bombers, among them were a mother and her 2 kids, bombed 3 churches in Surabaya, killing and injuring dozens of people at night the bomb also shook of a apartment complex in Sidoarjo, at least 3 adults in a single apartment room were killed, while 3 children occupying the same room survived. All of them were from the same family.
> *
> 14 May 2018* - Suicide bomb in police gate of City of Surabaya, At least 10 people, 4 policemen and 6 civilians, were wounded in the attack. 4 suicide bombers were killed
> *
> 16 May 2018* - A police station in Pekanbaru, Riau was attacked by 5 attackers with swords. They arrived at the police station using a car. One of the attackers drove off after hitting and killing a police officer with the car, while 4 others attacked using swords which then injured 2 police officers. Four of the attackers were later killed while the driver was captured by the police.
> 
> Conclusion: Let's us applaud the effort of the Indonesian Army for doing one hell of a job in protecting their country from terrorists  What about "terrorism in Vietnam"? Yeah, nothing. White as a sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> "Vietnamese jungle look like nothing": Oh you have spent some years in Vietnamese jungle before? Because if you do, you would have know that what said is a pile of S-H-I-T. Experience ? Your experience mean NOTHING because if you know what are you doing, the fighting should stop a long time ago. Want to beat us in the Vietnam War while you could not handle a few dozens ill-equipped rebels right this moment? You must have smoked a good deal of weed to come to that half-baked conclusion: "Oh we fcking struggle right now with some rebels in Indonesia but if we got sent back in the Vietnam War, we could have won while having no experience whatsoever in dealing with with local climate, population, geography,.... "
> 
> Sound fcking hilarious on so many levels. Next thing you say would be "If we got send to Iraq back in 2014, we could have stopped the ISIS menace from the first place" lol.
> 
> Moral story: Good at killing terrorist? Then you country should be free of terrorists. Your country still have terrorists in the 21st century but you claim that you could outperform others in the pasts? Well, your military SUCKS and you are a liar. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Destroys us? sink us? With what? Indonesian hope and dream?
> 
> "Millennium aa defense system": Seriously? All you get is a couple of close in defense weapon? We could have strike everything within 200 kilometer radius with missiles from surface ships, jets and submarine and you think your base is safe with a couple of CIWS lol?
> 
> What is your best anti submarine weapon right now? Moreover, you think you could get close enough to our subs to use them without being terminated by a couple of missile salvos first?
> 
> "With the infrastructure to strike at 5 different country": Oh how scary...wait, strike other countries with what? I hope you don't mean with meats of Indonesian cows lol because you could barely push yourself to contain rebels, let alone engaging in a strike again other countries.


Bhuahahahaha Ouhhhhh yes, with your limited arsenals of kalibr crusie missile Im sure your military planners must've consisted of defence pk forumers lol.

Sure nice to know how 50 cruise missile is a considered a thing, hahahahaha


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Great, look like we have ourselves a party going on and I'm almost late
> 
> 
> 
> Oh"uhuhuhu boy" is back and us Vietnamese are shaking....because we can't fcking believe the retard actually show his face back here.
> 
> "Harm our big cities": We will level them in a forth night after dishing about 50 Club-K missiles. Reason: Indonesia still relies on handheld air-to-surface missiles.auto cannon for air defense while we have actual SAMs. What could you do to protect your cities against missile attack? Yea. NOTHING
> 
> "8 subs": Sure, fossilized Type 209 and some Chang-Bogo have a high chance against Vietnam cruise missile-capable Kilo subs. Oh wait, they don't
> 
> "100 leopards against 64 T90s": That is a whole new kind of stupidity you just spoke: Your Leopard are used 2A4 variant from German surplus store. Guess the year that the variant come from. A tip: it starts in 19 and end with 92 (at the latest). On the other hand, Vietnam T-90 is brand new and our variant receive benefit from 21st century technologies. Our T-90 will some your elderly Leopard any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't even have to get into Natuna to do some damages. Say hello to the missile era. "Slapped on a ground based gun on your ship"? Uh...you mean our Coast Guard ship with their Zu-23-2? Lol we use that to smash pirate boats. as if we bring those into a shooting war. In combat against foreign enemies, we rely on navy vessels with missile. Get your fact straight.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, our army cannot do much about but somehow or someway, Vietnam so far have not experienced terrorist attack and pirate raids. Oh you want to compare Vietnam Army against Indonesian Army? How about we list the number of terrorist attack in your country and mine. Let me start with some notable incidents first:
> 
> Last decade:
> *12 October 2002* — The coordinated bomb attacks occurred on in the tourist district of Kuta, Bali. The attack was claimed as the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia according to the current police general, killing 202 people, (including 88 Australians, and 38 Indonesian citizens). A further 240 people were injured. Various members of Jemaah Islamiyah, a violent Islamist group, were convicted in relation to the bombings, including three individuals who were sentenced to death.
> *
> 28 May 2005* — Two improvised explosive devices, set to explode 15 minutes apart, detonated during the morning at a market in the center of Tentena, Central Sulawesi, killing 22 and wounding at least 40 more.
> *
> 1 October 2005* — Series of suicide bomb and a series of car bombs exploded at two sites in Jimbaran Beach Resort and in Kuta, Bali. The terrorist attack claimed the lives of 20 people and injured more than 100 others. The three bombers also died in the attacks.
> 
> This decade:*
> 9 May 2018* - Terrorism inmates in a detention center staged an riot resulting in the death of 5 police officers and one inmate. The detention center is heavily guarded compound of the local headquarters of the Mobile Brigade Corps, a paramilitary unit of the National Police, and it was guarded by elite counter-terrorism officers.*
> 
> 13 May 2018* - Suicide bombers, among them were a mother and her 2 kids, bombed 3 churches in Surabaya, killing and injuring dozens of people at night the bomb also shook of a apartment complex in Sidoarjo, at least 3 adults in a single apartment room were killed, while 3 children occupying the same room survived. All of them were from the same family.*
> 
> 14 May 2018* - Suicide bomb in police gate of City of Surabaya, At least 10 people, 4 policemen and 6 civilians, were wounded in the attack. 4 suicide bombers were killed*
> 
> 16 May 2018* - A police station in Pekanbaru, Riau was attacked by 5 attackers with swords. They arrived at the police station using a car. One of the attackers drove off after hitting and killing a police officer with the car, while 4 others attacked using swords which then injured 2 police officers. Four of the attackers were later killed while the driver was captured by the police.
> 
> Conclusion: Let's us applaud the effort of the Indonesian Army for doing one hell of a job in protecting their country
> 
> 
> 
> "vietnamese jungle look like nothing": Oh you have spent some years in Vietnamese jungle before? Because if you do, you would have know that what said is a pile of S-H-I-T. ? Experience ? Your experience mean NOTHING because if you know what are you doing, the fighting should stop a long time ago. Want to beat us in the Vietnam War while you could not handle a few dozens ill-equipped rebels right this moment? You must have smoked a good deal of weed to come to that half-baked conclusion: "Oh we fcking struggle right now with some rebels but if we got sent back in the Vietnam War, we could have won"
> 
> Sound facking hilarious on so many level



You mean a monkey model t-90 equipped with inferior Mango round? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment

Look up at my earlier post in the same thread & ask viet about it. I already educated him & the rest about how soviet armor are inferior compared to the west.

Meanwhile we have Leopard 2RI/A6 equiped with the best available DM53 round. 

Except Natuna is the only exception. if Vietnam want to do anything to indonesia it have to pass the Natuna sea & airspace. (An impossible task) 






I don't need to know vietnamese jungle personally to know that it is nothing compared to the Papuan jungle. Compared to the papuan VC is easy.


----------



## striver44

Anyway as i use to say, wishful thinking will not help you turn the situation your illegal fisherman face. So sad huhuhuhu



Reashot Xigwin said:


> You mean a monkey model t-90 equipped with inferior Mango round?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment
> 
> Meanwhile we have Leopard 2RI/A6 equiped with the best available DM53 round.
> 
> Except Natuna is the only exception. if Vietnam want to do anything to indonesia it have to pass the Natuna sea & airspace. (An impossible task)
> View attachment 546052
> 
> 
> I don't need to know vietnamese jungle personally to know that it is nothing compared to the Papuan jungle. Compared to the papuan VC is easy.


No need to be serious with viet forumers, they live in an ultimate fantasy world, where they can win wars with scud, t90,kilo class subs, and 3000+++ anyi ship missile lol.

Russian weapons looks nice on paper, just look at how russian AD system perform against NATO and israeli attack insyria,



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Tough luck. The natuna base are protected by the millennium aa defense system. While our MPA can find your subs & sink them.
> 
> Fun facts about the natuna its an island fortress with the infrastructure to strike at 5 different country if we so please. Think of it as an indonesian midway.


Those viet forgot that indonesia is now in the process of installing seabed sonar system
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BhAB&usg=AOvVaw1lz68L2uZNQRMB9buLa5Ky&ampcf=1

Their kilo will be easily located and destroyed



Viet said:


> Can you detect VN submarine’s position if 300 km away? What if the sub fires a missile when submerged? Do you have planes or sats available everywhere? Vietnamese has 6 but can increase the submarines in a short time if required. We now focus on economy not war. Besides, Indonesia submarines are too weak. One single Kilo has enough weapons onboard to give a dead blow to your naval fleet. The Kilo is designed to hit to kill. Not for parade. The sub has Kalibr, this highly maneuverable, long range cruise missiles fly at Mach 3 when approaching targets. Your surface warships have no defense against such threat. I give 50:50 chance for US and Chinese destroyers and cruisers to intercept the Kalibr. But the Kilo seldom fires one missile. At least two will be fired to overwhelm enemy air defense. Having said that reminding you to stop playing a game of provocation.
> 
> 
> View attachment 545987


I remember you're the same guy who thinks (more likely fantasized)that mig 21 could carry rbs 15 lol

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Reashot Xigwin

striver44 said:


> Anyway as i use to say, wishful thinking will not help you turn the situation your illegal fisherman face. So sad huhuhuhu
> 
> 
> No need to be serious with viet forumers, they live in an ultimate fantasy world, where they can win wars with scud, t90,kilo class subs, and 3000+++ anyi ship missile lol.
> 
> Russian weapons looks nice on paper, just look at how russian AD system perform against NATO and israeli attack insyria,


Not to mention a lot of their weapons are non-operational. One of those bloggers that get arrested. Forgot whom. Posted online about how squadron of SU-27 is left decaying in a hangar. This is of course angered the vietnamese authority which led to him being arrested. This however shows that vietnam intentionally padded the numbers of their arsenal by counting non-operational or non-functional to show they have a much larger number of weapons than they actually have. 

But it also explains why vietnam managed to have such a large army. With such a small economy. This means in war maybe around 70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case. 

So Beating vietnam might be a breeze after all.


----------



## striver44

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Not to mention a lot of their weapons are non-operational. One of those bloggers that get arrested. Forgot whom. Posted online about how squadron of SU-27 is left decaying in a hangar. This is of course angered the vietnamese authority which led to him being arrested. This however shows that vietnam intentionally padded the numbers of their arsenal by counting non-operational or non-functional to show they have a much larger number of weapons than they actually have.
> 
> But it also explains why vietnam managed to have such a large army. With such a small economy. This means in war maybe around 70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case.
> 
> So Beating vietnam might be a breeze after all.


Because acc to them economic development=6 Kilo class submarine lol

Cmon vietnamese members here, we both know that there will be no war whatsoever and the only thing that will actually continue to happen is the increasing number of illegal vietnamese and other nation fishing vessels got blown up.....is that so hard for you to understand?


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Not to mention a lot of their weapons are non-operational. One of those bloggers that get arrested. Forgot whom. Posted online about how squadron of SU-27 is left decaying in a hangar. This is of course angered the vietnamese authority which led to him being arrested. This however shows that vietnam intentionally padded the numbers of their arsenal by counting non-operational or non-functional to show they have a much larger number of weapons than they actually have.
> 
> But it also explains why vietnam managed to have such a large army. With such a small economy. This means in war maybe around 70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case.
> 
> So Beating vietnam might be a breeze after all.


Ah oh. Actually our fishing boast and guard ships r harrashing ID warships in disputed zone EVERYDAY and taking away tons of nice fish, carb, lobster etc ..while ID warship still dare not shooot

There r thousand VN fishing boats fishing in ID-VN disputed zone EVERYDAY and luring tons of fishing,crab etc from ID water to the disputed zone and sell to EU-CN-JP etc for lots of money 



striver44 said:


> Because acc to them economic development=6 Kilo class submarine lol
> 
> Cmon vietnamese members here, we both know that there will be no war whatsoever and the only thing that will actually continue to happen is the increasing number of illegal vietnamese and other nation fishing vessels got blown up.....is that so hard for you to understand?


Yeah. Thats why I dont care much abt disputing bween VN-ID in disputed water. But some ID guys here love trolling in VN defence theard, then lets start trolling each other


----------



## Viet

striver44 said:


> Anyway as i use to say, wishful thinking will not help you turn the situation your illegal fisherman face. So sad huhuhuhu
> 
> 
> No need to be serious with viet forumers, they live in an ultimate fantasy world, where they can win wars with scud, t90,kilo class subs, and 3000+++ anyi ship missile lol.
> 
> I remember you're the same guy who thinks (more likely fantasized)that mig 21 could carry rbs 15 lol


Did I say that? Not Mig21, more a role for Su22. Vietnam’s Mig21 usually plays the role as interceptor, or attacker in ambush. It’s well documented in Vietnam war, the air battles over North Vietnam.
A pair of Mig21 fly in advance with a Mig21 in camouflage flies in ambush position behind.


----------



## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> Bhuahahahaha Ouhhhhh yes, with your limited arsenals of kalibr crusie missile Im sure your military planners must've consisted of defence pk forumers lol.
> 
> Sure nice to know how 50 cruise missile is a considered a thing, hahahahaha



For ones that have nothing to defense against missile attack, 50 cruise missiles is enough to cripple cities after cities  I'm also sure that your military planner never satisfied with annexing Papua so they send out crooks like you to crash people thread, "Uhuhuhuh" boy.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> You mean a monkey model t-90 equipped with inferior Mango round?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment
> 
> Look up at my earlier post in the same thread & ask viet about it. I already educated him & the rest about how soviet armor are inferior compared to the west.
> 
> Meanwhile we have Leopard 2RI/A6 equiped with the best available DM53 round.
> 
> Except Natuna is the only exception. if Vietnam want to do anything to indonesia it have to pass the Natuna sea & airspace. (An impossible task)



Oh I don't know you could access our T-90s? Wait, you are making unsubstantiated claims again  We use export variant? Well I bet stripped down Leopard fare well against Soviet weapon then? Just a minute, oh no, Turkish Leopard got smoke by Cold War era Fagot ATGM, a signature Soviet weapon. And those Turkish Leopard are far newer models than the mothballed Leopard 2 your Indonesian could muster. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Not to mention a lot of their weapons are non-operational. One of those bloggers that get arrested. Forgot whom. Posted online about how squadron of SU-27 is left decaying in a hangar. This is of course angered the vietnamese authority which led to him being arrested. This however shows that vietnam intentionally padded the numbers of their arsenal by counting non-operational or non-functional to show they have a much larger number of weapons than they actually have.
> 
> But it also explains why vietnam managed to have such a large army. With such a small economy. This means in war maybe around 70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case.
> 
> So Beating vietnam might be a breeze after al



Lol come from people that could lost soldiers after soldiers against ill-equipped rebels. How convenient that your bring out news about "non-operational Vietnamese Su-27 " but also "forgot" the source. I also read a article about "ill-disciplined" Indonesian submarine crew with such a low level of training that lead to quite a few fatal incidents. Some sources even claim that Indonesian soldiers are more adept at shooting against unarmed protesters than fighting rebels. My fellow country use a credible source about the state of Indonesian Navy but I know things are worse in the Air Force. I hope that you don't want me to bring out my sources as well? Since you don't bother with your?

"70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case" I guess the FSB, CIA, MI6 should hire you because you could predict the total readiness of Vietnam People Army equipment without spending a single day in the VPA. 

....Wait, you are here in a little-know defense forum instead of serving in a high level government capacity? That means most of your predictions happen to be TRASHES :b Totally nail it. Instead of posting your "imagination" in our thread, put your words into a novels and sell them to some Indonesian fools to make them feel better about their pathetic country. 

Strong Indonesia: Hundreds dead and thousands wounded due to terrorists. Ongoing insurrection.
Weak Vietnam: No dead due to terrorist. No insurrection.

Yeah sure keep dreaming about beating us Vietnamese but the world already know the performance of Indonesian soldiers again the Papua rebels. To think losers that unable to keep their country in peace in the 21 st century dare to claim that they can beat Vietnam People Army in the Vietnam War and nowadays? Not to mention that they have no idea about capacity of Vietnam Armed Forces? What you Indonesian have is a unrealistic dream that might get foiled by future attack from Papua rebels. Want to make a bet that more Indonesian would lose their lives in the incoming months?

When you are capable of beating actual military units, there is still a chance that you might experience difficulty fighting rebels. However, if you could not handle rebels, you never would be able to defeat organized armies. Period.

So anyway, have fun "winning" in Papua for, I don't know, another 50 years ?



striver44 said:


> Because acc to them economic development=6 Kilo class submarine lol
> 
> Cmon vietnamese members here, we both know that there will be no war whatsoever and the only thing that will actually continue to happen is the increasing number of illegal vietnamese and other nation fishing vessels got blown up.....is that so hard for you to understand?



I think that you mind must have lost a screw or two, "uhuhuhuhu" boy. The purchase of sophisticated military equipment IS the sign of economic development. Count how many country in the world could afford a modern fleet of submarine that is larger than 6 as well as holding a standing army of hundreds of thousands of man. I recall that even Indonesia have to trade palm oil for some Su-35? Man that sound powerful. 

And if my mind work correctly:

It was YOU that crashed into our thread screaming about an incident between VCG and Indonesian Navy FIRST. The tongue you use in that very first post was far from wanting to share information. You wanted to boast about the incident as an achievement. Not mention that this is a Vietnam military thread, not "Whatever Vietnam". Your actions indicate that you are a stuck-up A-S-S-H-O-L-E which fail read the name of the thread before posting something completely irrelevant. 

It was YOU that threaten us with military action (a.k.a war) FIRST. Don't talk as if we Vietnamese member in the PDF was the ones that start all of this war story shiet.

It was YOU that made joke out of Vietnam People Army and messed with the death of Vietnamese soldiers FIRST. After that, it's simply natural for the Vietnamese in here to bring up the "ultra lame" performance of the Indonesian in Papua. The body count in Papua is around 27 (3 soldiers, 24 civilians) right now, excluding rebels so as to make you feel better. But bet you mother A-S-S it will go up soon.
Not only you Indonesian want to play innocence but you guys want to pin the blame on us? FCK. THAT. S-H-I-T. UHUHUHUH BOY.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> For ones that have nothing to defense against missile attack, 50 cruise missiles is enough to cripple cities after cities  I'm also sure that your military planner never satisfied with annexing Papua so they send out crooks like you to crash people thread, "Uhuhuhuh" boy.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I don't know you could access our T-90s? Wait, you are making unsubstantiated claims again  We use export variant? Well I bet stripped down Leopard fare well against Soviet weapon then? Just a minute, oh no, Turkish Leopard got smoke by Cold War era Fagot ATGM, a signature Soviet weapon. And those Turkish Leopard are far newer models than the mothballed Leopard 2 your Indonesian could muster.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol come from people that could lost soldiers after soldiers against ill-equipped rebels. How convenient that your bring out news about "non-operational Vietnamese Su-27 " but also "forgot" the source. I also read a article about "ill-disciplined" Indonesian submarine crew with such a low level of training that lead to quite a few fatal incidents. Some sources even claim that Indonesian soldiers are more adept at shooting against unarmed protesters than fighting rebels. My fellow country use a credible source about the state of Indonesian Navy but I know things are worse in the Air Force. I hope that you don't want me to bring out my sources as well? Since you don't bother with your?
> 
> "70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case" I guess the FSB, CIA, MI6 should hire you because you could predict the total readiness of Vietnam People Army equipment without spending a single day in the VPA.
> 
> ....Wait, you are here in a little-know defense forum instead of serving in a high level government capacity? That means most of your predictions happen to be TRASHES :b Totally nail it. Instead of posting your "imagination" in our thread, put your words into a novels and sell them to some Indonesian fools to make them feel better about their pathetic country.
> 
> Strong Indonesia: Hundreds dead and thousands wounded due to terrorists. Ongoing insurrection.
> Weak Vietnam: No dead due to terrorist. No insurrection.
> 
> Yeah sure keep dreaming about beating us Vietnamese but the world already know the performance of Indonesian soldiers again the Papua rebels. To think losers that unable to keep their country in peace in the 21 st century dare to claim that they can beat Vietnam People Army in the Vietnam War and nowadays? Not to mention that they have no idea about capacity of Vietnam Armed Forces? What you Indonesian have is a unrealistic dream that might get foiled by future attack from Papua rebels. Want to make a bet that more Indonesian would lose their lives in the incoming months?
> 
> When you are capable of beating actual military units, there is still a chance that you might experience difficulty fighting rebels. However, if you could not handle rebels, you never would be able to defeat organized armies. Period.
> 
> So anyway, have fun "winning" in Papua for, I don't know, another 50 years ?
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you mind must have lost a screw or two, "uhuhuhuhu" boy. The purchase of sophisticated military equipment IS the sign of economic development. Count how many country in the world could afford a modern fleet of submarine that is larger than 6 as well as holding a standing army of hundreds of thousands of man. I recall that even Indonesia have to trade palm oil for some Su-35? Man that sound powerful.
> 
> And if my mind work correctly:
> 
> It was YOU that crashed into our thread screaming about an incident between VCG and Indonesian Navy FIRST. The tongue you use in that very first post was far from wanting to share information. You wanted to boast about the incident as an achievement. Not mention that this is a Vietnam military thread, not "Whatever Vietnam". Your actions indicate that you are a stuck-up A-S-S-H-O-L-E which fail read the name of the thread before posting something completely irrelevant.
> 
> It was YOU that threaten us with military action (a.k.a war) FIRST. Don't talk as if we Vietnamese member in the PDF was the ones that start all of this war story shiet.
> 
> It was YOU that made joke out of Vietnam People Army and messed with the death of Vietnamese soldiers FIRST. After that, it's simply natural for the Vietnamese in here to bring up the "ultra lame" performance of the Indonesian in Papua. The body count in Papua is around 27 (3 soldiers, 24 civilians) right now, excluding rebels so as to make you feel better. But bet you mother A-S-S it will go up soon.
> Not only you Indonesian want to play innocence but you guys want to pin the blame on us? FCK. THAT. S-H-I-T. UHUHUHUH BOY.


Still have to pass through the Natuna island though... 

Those turkish model were refurbished Swiss Leo A1 model & erdogan refused to use infantry support during the incursion leading to the destroyed tanks. It's political decision not military that destroyed the tanks. 

Monkey models are quite real unfortunately for you. It's no secret that Russia doesn't give their best products away. Ask the indians & Iraqis or better yet ask your servicemen.

The Mango apfsds are easy to guess because its the rounds they export & the same one india's have & producing under license. They sure as hell not going to give you their lekalo or svinets. 

Ou contraire beating organized army are way easier than rebels. Just look at Afghanistan. The soviets get assraped by bunch goat herders & so does the US... I don't see anyone questioning both of their capabilities to wage war.

Just because vietnam is peaceful it doesn't mean anything. Slovakia is peaceful doesn't mean its better than israel or india. Indonesia is regional power with a global reach while vietnam is grateful just for having more golf course.

Iraqi under saddam had a large military... So you pretty much compared your country to iraq. A large military with shoddy weapons & tactics. Nice going there.

Vietnam lying about their military inventory is pretty much open secret. Everybody in the military circle knows about it. Those thousands of tanks that vietnam supposedly have are mostly legacies even going back as ww2 & not even in working condition. They just kept it there to pad out the numbers. So who's to say they don't keep counts of jets or ships that way. I mean after all if I'm lying you can just check it with your government. After all they don't arrest citizens concerned with the state of the military or do they? [emoji5]


----------



## Nike

I was reading here for a while and remind me about me old discussion in the past, Vietnam army is still weak as hell even when they got T90s, their basic infantryman still like this






Their suppose elite Marine unit






And it is like they still living in Cold war era









Their airforce is basically revolver around their Flanker and Su22 but here there is no reliable figure about their combat readiness and how much training they do every year, months or weeks.


----------



## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> For ones that have nothing to defense against missile attack, 50 cruise missiles is enough to cripple cities after cities  I'm also sure that your military planner never satisfied with annexing Papua so they send out crooks like you to crash people thread, "Uhuhuhuh" boy.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I don't know you could access our T-90s? Wait, you are making unsubstantiated claims again  We use export variant? Well I bet stripped down Leopard fare well against Soviet weapon then? Just a minute, oh no, Turkish Leopard got smoke by Cold War era Fagot ATGM, a signature Soviet weapon. And those Turkish Leopard are far newer models than the mothballed Leopard 2 your Indonesian could muster.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol come from people that could lost soldiers after soldiers against ill-equipped rebels. How convenient that your bring out news about "non-operational Vietnamese Su-27 " but also "forgot" the source. I also read a article about "ill-disciplined" Indonesian submarine crew with such a low level of training that lead to quite a few fatal incidents. Some sources even claim that Indonesian soldiers are more adept at shooting against unarmed protesters than fighting rebels. My fellow country use a credible source about the state of Indonesian Navy but I know things are worse in the Air Force. I hope that you don't want me to bring out my sources as well? Since you don't bother with your?
> 
> "70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case" I guess the FSB, CIA, MI6 should hire you because you could predict the total readiness of Vietnam People Army equipment without spending a single day in the VPA.
> 
> ....Wait, you are here in a little-know defense forum instead of serving in a high level government capacity? That means most of your predictions happen to be TRASHES :b Totally nail it. Instead of posting your "imagination" in our thread, put your words into a novels and sell them to some Indonesian fools to make them feel better about their pathetic country.
> 
> Strong Indonesia: Hundreds dead and thousands wounded due to terrorists. Ongoing insurrection.
> Weak Vietnam: No dead due to terrorist. No insurrection.
> 
> Yeah sure keep dreaming about beating us Vietnamese but the world already know the performance of Indonesian soldiers again the Papua rebels. To think losers that unable to keep their country in peace in the 21 st century dare to claim that they can beat Vietnam People Army in the Vietnam War and nowadays? Not to mention that they have no idea about capacity of Vietnam Armed Forces? What you Indonesian have is a unrealistic dream that might get foiled by future attack from Papua rebels. Want to make a bet that more Indonesian would lose their lives in the incoming months?
> 
> When you are capable of beating actual military units, there is still a chance that you might experience difficulty fighting rebels. However, if you could not handle rebels, you never would be able to defeat organized armies. Period.
> 
> So anyway, have fun "winning" in Papua for, I don't know, another 50 years ?
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you mind must have lost a screw or two, "uhuhuhuhu" boy. The purchase of sophisticated military equipment IS the sign of economic development. Count how many country in the world could afford a modern fleet of submarine that is larger than 6 as well as holding a standing army of hundreds of thousands of man. I recall that even Indonesia have to trade palm oil for some Su-35? Man that sound powerful.
> 
> And if my mind work correctly:
> 
> It was YOU that crashed into our thread screaming about an incident between VCG and Indonesian Navy FIRST. The tongue you use in that very first post was far from wanting to share information. You wanted to boast about the incident as an achievement. Not mention that this is a Vietnam military thread, not "Whatever Vietnam". Your actions indicate that you are a stuck-up A-S-S-H-O-L-E which fail read the name of the thread before posting something completely irrelevant.
> 
> It was YOU that threaten us with military action (a.k.a war) FIRST. Don't talk as if we Vietnamese member in the PDF was the ones that start all of this war story shiet.
> 
> It was YOU that made joke out of Vietnam People Army and messed with the death of Vietnamese soldiers FIRST. After that, it's simply natural for the Vietnamese in here to bring up the "ultra lame" performance of the Indonesian in Papua. The body count in Papua is around 27 (3 soldiers, 24 civilians) right now, excluding rebels so as to make you feel better. But bet you mother A-S-S it will go up soon.
> Not only you Indonesian want to play innocence but you guys want to pin the blame on us? FCK. THAT. S-H-I-T. UHUHUHUH BOY.





Aqsuperman said:


> For ones that have nothing to defense against missile attack, 50 cruise missiles is enough to cripple cities after cities  I'm also sure that your military planner never satisfied with annexing Papua so they send out crooks like you to crash people thread, "Uhuhuhuh" boy.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I don't know you could access our T-90s? Wait, you are making unsubstantiated claims again  We use export variant? Well I bet stripped down Leopard fare well against Soviet weapon then? Just a minute, oh no, Turkish Leopard got smoke by Cold War era Fagot ATGM, a signature Soviet weapon. And those Turkish Leopard are far newer models than the mothballed Leopard 2 your Indonesian could muster.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol come from people that could lost soldiers after soldiers against ill-equipped rebels. How convenient that your bring out news about "non-operational Vietnamese Su-27 " but also "forgot" the source. I also read a article about "ill-disciplined" Indonesian submarine crew with such a low level of training that lead to quite a few fatal incidents. Some sources even claim that Indonesian soldiers are more adept at shooting against unarmed protesters than fighting rebels. My fellow country use a credible source about the state of Indonesian Navy but I know things are worse in the Air Force. I hope that you don't want me to bring out my sources as well? Since you don't bother with your?
> 
> "70% is actually operational at the best case while 50% or so at the very worst case" I guess the FSB, CIA, MI6 should hire you because you could predict the total readiness of Vietnam People Army equipment without spending a single day in the VPA.
> 
> ....Wait, you are here in a little-know defense forum instead of serving in a high level government capacity? That means most of your predictions happen to be TRASHES :b Totally nail it. Instead of posting your "imagination" in our thread, put your words into a novels and sell them to some Indonesian fools to make them feel better about their pathetic country.
> 
> Strong Indonesia: Hundreds dead and thousands wounded due to terrorists. Ongoing insurrection.
> Weak Vietnam: No dead due to terrorist. No insurrection.
> 
> Yeah sure keep dreaming about beating us Vietnamese but the world already know the performance of Indonesian soldiers again the Papua rebels. To think losers that unable to keep their country in peace in the 21 st century dare to claim that they can beat Vietnam People Army in the Vietnam War and nowadays? Not to mention that they have no idea about capacity of Vietnam Armed Forces? What you Indonesian have is a unrealistic dream that might get foiled by future attack from Papua rebels. Want to make a bet that more Indonesian would lose their lives in the incoming months?
> 
> When you are capable of beating actual military units, there is still a chance that you might experience difficulty fighting rebels. However, if you could not handle rebels, you never would be able to defeat organized armies. Period.
> 
> So anyway, have fun "winning" in Papua for, I don't know, another 50 years ?
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you mind must have lost a screw or two, "uhuhuhuhu" boy. The purchase of sophisticated military equipment IS the sign of economic development. Count how many country in the world could afford a modern fleet of submarine that is larger than 6 as well as holding a standing army of hundreds of thousands of man. I recall that even Indonesia have to trade palm oil for some Su-35? Man that sound powerful.
> 
> And if my mind work correctly:
> 
> It was YOU that crashed into our thread screaming about an incident between VCG and Indonesian Navy FIRST. The tongue you use in that very first post was far from wanting to share information. You wanted to boast about the incident as an achievement. Not mention that this is a Vietnam military thread, not "Whatever Vietnam". Your actions indicate that you are a stuck-up A-S-S-H-O-L-E which fail read the name of the thread before posting something completely irrelevant.
> 
> It was YOU that threaten us with military action (a.k.a war) FIRST. Don't talk as if we Vietnamese member in the PDF was the ones that start all of this war story shiet.
> 
> It was YOU that made joke out of Vietnam People Army and messed with the death of Vietnamese soldiers FIRST. After that, it's simply natural for the Vietnamese in here to bring up the "ultra lame" performance of the Indonesian in Papua. The body count in Papua is around 27 (3 soldiers, 24 civilians) right now, excluding rebels so as to make you feel better. But bet you mother A-S-S it will go up soon.
> Not only you Indonesian want to play innocence but you guys want to pin the blame on us? FCK. THAT. S-H-I-T. UHUHUHUH BOY.


Pffftt believe me, 50 cruise missile will done nothing. What you gonna do girl ? Blow some house here and there, few mostly civilian casualties on our side and yess, the international blame game is on you, meanwhile after you emptied your stock of 50 or so kalibr, we with more money than yours, could buy even deadlier weapons to turn ho cho minh city into a living hell hahahaha. Actually thats what i want, vietnam shoot first, then our government realized there is something wrong and decide to spend much more money for the armed forces. Niceeeee


----------



## GraveDigger388

Alright guys, that's enough. Strayed the topic too far. From illegal fishing to...whatever this theoretical warfare acrobatics are called.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


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## Viva_Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> Alright guys, that's enough. Strayed the topic too far. From illegal fishing to...whatever this theoretical warfare acrobatics are called.


Yeah, dont know why small problem in ID-VN disputed zone going too far to all out war. Even a much bigger VN-CN disputed water problem still not become war yet


----------



## striver44

Viva_Viet said:


> Yeah, dont know why small problem in ID-VN disputed zone going too far to all out war. Even a much bigger VN-CN disputed water problem still not become war yet


Thats the whole point of my conversation isnt it?

Okay im out

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> I was reading here for a while and remind me about me old discussion in the past, Vietnam army is still weak as hell even when they got T90s, their basic infantryman still like this
> View attachment 546139
> 
> 
> Their suppose elite Marine unit
> 
> View attachment 546140
> 
> 
> And it is like they still living in Cold war era
> 
> View attachment 546141
> View attachment 546142
> 
> 
> Their airforce is basically revolver around their Flanker and Su22 but here there is no reliable figure about their combat readiness and how much training they do every year, months or weeks.


Nonsense. Vietnamese military is underfunded because of financial constraints not weak. Our military record with numerous victories goes back to the early days of the Han dynasty, that is some 2,000 years. Only few countries in the world have such history except the Greeks, the Persians, the Romans and of course the Chinese.


----------



## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Nonsense. Vietnamese military is underfunded not weak.


vn spends 2.3% of the GDP on defense. And you call this as "underfunded"??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> vn spends 2.3% of the GDP on defense. And you call this as "underfunded"??
> View attachment 546205


And how much is it in dollars?

Or VND?


----------



## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> And how much is it in dollars?
> 
> Or VND?


So what? you can request vcp to increase the defense budget to 10%, or even 20% of the GDP. I believe it could make you very happy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Only few countries in the world have such history except the Greeks, the Persians, the Romans and of course the Chinese.


Chinese dynasties era should not have counted.


----------



## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> So what? you can request vcp to increase the defense budget to 10%, or even 20% of the GDP. I believe it could make you very happy.


You are wrong. Vietnamese in general are pacifist. We hate militarism. China has a leader that loves to dress in military cloth holding endless military parades. Thailand has a military government. Indonesia and Burma have military generals that command the politics. Such thing is unthinkable in Vietnam. Have you ever seen the party chief of Vietnam that oversees a military parade?

Unless we are middle of a war, military plays no role in the politics nor society. Vietnamese never accept military leadership nor waste of money on military in peacetime.

Ok that is probably something new for you.


----------



## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Vietnamese military is underfunded





Viet said:


> Vietnamese never accept military leadership nor waste of money on military in peacetime.


then why complain vn is short on military funding?
why you always clap your own face by your own hand?


----------



## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> then why complain vn is short on military funding?
> why you always clap your own face by your own hand?


I complain with a good reason. I tell you:On one side I hate seeing money on military instead of social programs, on the other side I don’t want to see weakness considering your claim and actions in the SC sea. Nobody knows when you run amok. In fact Vietnam is in a dilemma. If we increase military power, China leadership will accuse Vietnam of war preparation, as if tomorrow we would conquer Laos, Cambodia, Burma and other to make their population to slaves.


----------



## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Still have to pass through the Natuna island though...
> 
> Those turkish model were refurbished Swiss Leo A1 model & erdogan refused to use infantry support during the incursion leading to the destroyed tanks. It's political decision not military that destroyed the tanks.
> 
> Monkey models are quite real unfortunately for you. It's no secret that Russia doesn't give their best products away. Ask the indians & Iraqis or better yet ask your servicemen.
> 
> The Mango apfsds are easy to guess because its the rounds they export & the same one india's have & producing under license. They sure as hell not going to give you their lekalo or svinets.
> 
> Ou contraire beating organized army are way easier than rebels. Just look at Afghanistan. The soviets get assraped by bunch goat herders & so does the US... I don't see anyone questioning both of their capabilities to wage war.
> 
> Just because vietnam is peaceful it doesn't mean anything. Slovakia is peaceful doesn't mean its better than israel or india. Indonesia is regional power with a global reach while vietnam is grateful just for having more golf course.
> 
> Iraqi under saddam had a large military... So you pretty much compared your country to iraq. A large military with shoddy weapons & tactics. Nice going there.
> 
> Vietnam lying about their military inventory is pretty much open secret. Everybody in the military circle knows about it. Those thousands of tanks that vietnam supposedly have are mostly legacies even going back as ww2 & not even in working condition. They just kept it there to pad out the numbers. So who's to say they don't keep counts of jets or ships that way. I mean after all if I'm lying you can just check it with your government. After all they don't arrest citizens concerned with the state of the military or do they?



Again, you put our claim against the VPA that have no "tangible evidence" with zero collaboration from experts. we are talking numbers, facts, charts,...not imagination. "Vietnam Su-27s rotten in hangar?" No pictures No name? No time period? Then is there any reason to believe that it take place in real life and not your own brain?

"Just because vietnam is peaceful it doesn't mean anything." Peace MEANS everything. If peace is nothing then I wonder why everyone bother with negotiation and compromises? Wait, the world DO care about peace. Indonesia don't bother with peace because you are a country that is filled with safe haven for terrorists. Your Indonesian treat peace as nothing because you are afraid to admit that your army is unable to maintain peace. Period.

"Iraqi under saddam had a large military... So you pretty much compared your country to iraq. A large military with shoddy weapons & tactics. Nice going there"

Well Indonesia with its large military fail to contain rebels and terrorist attack while we can. Good enough for an army with "shoddy weapons & tactics", right? By the way, base on recent news, turn out 3 of the Indonesian soldiers that lost their life belong to Kopassus, your country elite special force. For ill-equipped rebels that on their last legs to come out with such a feat equal 2 things: Either they are too goods or your Army sucks ball. My money is on the latter.

"They don't arrest citizens concerned with the state of the military or do they?". It's actually a criminal offense to post pictures of the military without consulting the Ministry of Defense first. But as far as I'm concern, we are still treat our citizen better than a certain country *Indonesia* that arrest people for singing a song with "inappropriate contents".



Marine Rouge said:


> I was reading here for a while and remind me about me old discussion in the past, Vietnam army is still weak as hell even when they got T90s, their basic infantryman still like this
> View attachment 546139
> 
> 
> Their suppose elite Marine unit
> 
> View attachment 546140
> 
> 
> And it is like they still living in Cold war era
> 
> View attachment 546141
> View attachment 546142
> 
> 
> Their airforce is basically revolver around their Flanker and Su22 but here there is no reliable figure about their combat readiness and how much training they do every year, months or weeks.



Those are...pretty old photos. You just google without checking out the dates of the pictures? Well, in that case, we share the same stuff too here and there so I guess the Indonesia is not too awesome, right?











Classic PT-76 - BTR-50 combo. "Cold War" stuff at its finest.






AMX-13. A pretty "new" tank , right?






A Saladin. This shiet date back to the Vietnam War era






These are..oh my fcking god, BTR-40 right? I only saw some of them in our museums but you guys still hold on to them? Nice windshield btw. 

Damn, the Indonesian military have way more old stuff than the Vietnam People Army.



striver44 said:


> Pffftt believe me, 50 cruise missile will done nothing. What you gonna do girl ? Blow some house here and there, few mostly civilian casualties on our side and yess, the international blame game is on you, meanwhile after you emptied your stock of 50 or so kalibr, we with more money than yours, could buy even deadlier weapons to turn ho cho minh city into a living hell hahahaha. Actually thats what i want, vietnam shoot first, then our government realized there is something wrong and decide to spend much more money for the armed forces. Niceeeee



INDONESIA. HAS. ZERO. AIR. DEFENSE. CAPABILITY. Sure you have Close In Weapon System, MANPADS and crap but as if they could stop missile reliably in the last boost phase. And I say we only NEED 50 to cripple Indonesian cities, I don't say we only HAVE 50, "uhuhuhu boy". Once again, you guys already shoot FIRST, not us.Both on the sea and in the forum, the Indonesian always unleash the first shot, not Vietnamese.



striver44 said:


> Thats the whole point of my conversation isnt it?
> 
> Okay im out



You was the one that create this mess, remember? But you also turned tail and ran pretty quick, right Mr. "uhuhuhu boy"? Feel free to put up the facade that you don't want this to happen your fellow countryman but Vietnamese members in the thread already knew that you are the one that start this shiet. Crawl back to the hole you come from and stay there if you actually want this to stop.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> Again, you put our claim against the VPA that have no "tangible evidence" with zero collaboration from experts. we are talking numbers, facts, charts,...not imagination. "Vietnam Su-27s rotten in hangar?" No pictures No name? No time period? Then is there any reason to believe that it take place in real life and not your own brain?
> 
> "Just because vietnam is peaceful it doesn't mean anything." Peace MEANS everything. If peace is nothing then I wonder why everyone bother with negotiation and compromises? Wait, the world DO care about peace. Indonesia don't bother with peace because you are a country that is filled with safe haven for terrorists. Your Indonesian treat peace as nothing because you are afraid to admit that your army is unable to maintain peace. Period.
> 
> "Iraqi under saddam had a large military... So you pretty much compared your country to iraq. A large military with shoddy weapons & tactics. Nice going there"
> 
> Well Indonesia with its large military fail to contain rebels and terrorist attack while we can. Good enough for an army with "shoddy weapons & tactics", right? By the way, base on recent news, turn out 3 of the Indonesian soldiers that lost their life belong to Kopassus, your country elite special force. For ill-equipped rebels that on their last legs to come out with such a feat equal 2 things: Either they are too goods or your Army sucks ball. My money is on the latter.
> 
> "They don't arrest citizens concerned with the state of the military or do they?". It's actually a criminal offense to post pictures of the military without consulting the Ministry of Defense first. But as far as I'm concern, we are still treat our citizen better than a certain country *Indonesia* that arrest people for singing a song with "inappropriate contents".
> 
> 
> 
> Those are...pretty old photos. You just google without checking out the dates of the pictures? Well, in that case, we share the same stuff too here and there so I guess the Indonesia is not too awesome, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Classic PT-76 - BTR-50 combo. "Cold War" stuff at its finest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMX-13. A pretty "new" tank , right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Saladin. This shiet date back to the Vietnam War era
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are..oh my fcking god, BTR-40 right? I only saw some of them in our museums but you guys still hold on to them? Nice windshield btw.
> 
> Damn, the Indonesian military have way more old stuff than the Vietnam People Army.
> 
> 
> 
> INDONESIA. HAS. ZERO. AIR. DEFENSE. CAPABILITY. Sure you have Close In Weapon System, MANPADS and crap but as if they could stop missile reliably in the last boost phase. And I say we only NEED 50 to cripple Indonesian cities, I don't say we only HAVE 50, "uhuhuhu boy". Once again, you guys already shoot FIRST, not us.Both on the sea and in the forum, the Indonesian always unleash the first shot, not Vietnamese.
> 
> 
> 
> You was the one that create this mess, remember? But you also turned tail and ran pretty quick, right Mr. "uhuhuhu boy"? Feel free to put up the facade that you don't want this to happen your fellow countryman but Vietnamese members in the thread already knew that you are the one that start this shiet. Crawl back to the hole you come from and stay there if you actually want this to stop.


What mess? Its not a mess.. its fun games

Yes we shoot first but atleast we know 6 kilo class submarine aint gonna do shit about it so......


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Again, you put our claim against the VPA that have no "tangible evidence" with zero collaboration from experts. we are talking numbers, facts, charts,...not imagination. "Vietnam Su-27s rotten in hangar?" No pictures No name? No time period? Then is there any reason to believe that it take place in real life and not your own brain?
> 
> "Just because vietnam is peaceful it doesn't mean anything." Peace MEANS everything. If peace is nothing then I wonder why everyone bother with negotiation and compromises? Wait, the world DO care about peace. Indonesia don't bother with peace because you are a country that is filled with safe haven for terrorists. Your Indonesian treat peace as nothing because you are afraid to admit that your army is unable to maintain peace. Period.
> 
> "Iraqi under saddam had a large military... So you pretty much compared your country to iraq. A large military with shoddy weapons & tactics. Nice going there"
> 
> Well Indonesia with its large military fail to contain rebels and terrorist attack while we can. Good enough for an army with "shoddy weapons & tactics", right? By the way, base on recent news, turn out 3 of the Indonesian soldiers that lost their life belong to Kopassus, your country elite special force. For ill-equipped rebels that on their last legs to come out with such a feat equal 2 things: Either they are too goods or your Army sucks ball. My money is on the latter.
> 
> "They don't arrest citizens concerned with the state of the military or do they?". It's actually a criminal offense to post pictures of the military without consulting the Ministry of Defense first. But as far as I'm concern, we are still treat our citizen better than a certain country *Indonesia* that arrest people for singing a song with "inappropriate contents".
> 
> 
> 
> Those are...pretty old photos. You just google without checking out the dates of the pictures? Well, in that case, we share the same stuff too here and there so I guess the Indonesia is not too awesome, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Classic PT-76 - BTR-50 combo. "Cold War" stuff at its finest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AMX-13. A pretty "new" tank , right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Saladin. This shiet date back to the Vietnam War era
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are..oh my fcking god, BTR-40 right? I only saw some of them in our museums but you guys still hold on to them? Nice windshield btw.
> 
> Damn, the Indonesian military have way more old stuff than the Vietnam People Army.
> 
> 
> 
> INDONESIA. HAS. ZERO. AIR. DEFENSE. CAPABILITY. Sure you have Close In Weapon System, MANPADS and crap but as if they could stop missile reliably in the last boost phase. And I say we only NEED 50 to cripple Indonesian cities, I don't say we only HAVE 50, "uhuhuhu boy". Once again, you guys already shoot FIRST, not us.Both on the sea and in the forum, the Indonesian always unleash the first shot, not Vietnamese.
> 
> 
> 
> You was the one that create this mess, remember? But you also turned tail and ran pretty quick, right Mr. "uhuhuhu boy"? Feel free to put up the facade that you don't want this to happen your fellow countryman but Vietnamese members in the thread already knew that you are the one that start this shiet. Crawl back to the hole you come from and stay there if you actually want this to stop.



Trust me or a communist government that have a history of lying to its people, imprison its critics, torturing dissidents & doesn't allow freedom of thought... Oh yeah that's a real tough choice. 

Again your argument can be used against another just as well. So according to your logic Israel, India & Russia remains in chaos is because their army can't maintain peace? Then forgetting how indonesia actually managed to make peace with numerous other rebel groups. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3sDjjAjubhGB3m9X-Gsxdh

So you're saying the IDF, India's & Russian armed forces is bad because they can't keep peace while the VPA is better because they can? 

Wow. That's an ironclad argument over there? (Sarcasm.)




outnumbered 2 to 1 & still ended up taking 10 people with them.

"A force of 50-70 rebels armed with military-grade weapons as well as spears and arrows attacked a group of 25 soldiers in Nduga district in a battle lasting several hours Thursday, said Muhammad Aidi, the military spokesman for Indonesia's easternmost Papua region."

You do realize Robert was also arrested for breaking the law right? Again your attempt to use the moral high ground fail when your government arrested hundreds of people like robert without a trial. 




striver44 said:


> What mess? Its not a mess.. its fun games
> 
> Yes we shoot first but atleast we know 6 kilo class submarine aint gonna do shit about it so......



6 kilo can't do shit when we control the entrance to indonesia & the only way in is through a naval fortress.


----------



## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> What mess? Its not a mess.. its fun games



A "fun game" that YOU starts but now you claim that you don't want to continue? For me, it look like you want to have a chance to humiliate us Vietnamese at first but things turn to shiet so fast that you start: "Cmon, it's not going to become a war", "I'm out",... You talk big but once shiet hit the fans, you run away with your tail between your legs?

I know for certain that you are a certified P-U-S-S the moment you start acting as a bully in primary school, "uhuhuhuh" boy.



striver44 said:


> Yes we shoot first but atleast we know 6 kilo class submarine aint gonna do shit about it so......



Yea, "the Indonesian shoot FIRST", NOT "the Vietnamese shoot FIRST". Yes, YOU are the cause of this debate, NOT us Vietnamese. For now, the situation remain tense but if things come to shove, our Kilo subs will definitely test the Indonesian ability to defense against missile attacks... Wait, you guys have nothing that could contain missiles beside auto cannon so your A-S-S is toasted.

BTW, don't feel too proud because you dare to shoot first. Germany, Italia and Japan all shot first in WW2 while laughing about what people could do to them for such provocations. I guess your history teacher did teach you what happen to the the Axis for their bravery to shoot first, right?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Trust me or a communist government that have a history of lying to its people, imprison its critics, torturing dissidents & doesn't allow freedom of thought... Oh yeah that's a real tough choice.



LET HEAR IT AGAIN, FOLKS

The police used unnecessary and excessive force against demonstrators and protesters, especially in land dispute cases. In the rare instances where investigations took place, little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice.


In January, six palm oil farmers were seriously injured in Jambi Province after Police Mobile Brigade (Brimob) officers fired rubber bullets at them in an attempt to evict them from a plantation they were working on. The plantation was the subject of an ongoing land dispute between the farmers and a palm oil company.
In June, security forces used unnecessary and excessive force while attempting to forcibly evict a community in Langkat district, North Sumatra. The community had been involved in a land dispute with the local authorities. When the community protested against the eviction, police officers fired on the crowd without warning, injuring at least nine people. Six others were kicked and beaten.
Repeated allegations of torture and otherwise ill-treating detainees by security forces, particularly peaceful political activists in areas with a history of independence movements such as Papua and Maluku has been reported. Independent investigations into such allegations were rare. There were no investigations into allegations of torture and other ill-treatment of 21 peaceful political activists by Special Detachment-88 (Densus-88), a police counter-terrorism unit. The 21 had been tortured during arrest, detention and interrogation in Maluku in August 2010. Caning was increasingly used as a form of judicial punishment in Aceh. At least 72 people were caned for various offences, including drinking alcohol, being alone with someone of the opposite sex who was not a marriage partner or relative (khalwat), and for gambling. The Acehnese authorities passed a series of by-laws governing the implementation of Sharia after the enactment of the province’s Special Autonomy Law in 2001

In January 2018, the Aceh police ransacked a parlor with support from the Aceh autonomous government. The police tortured all LGBT citizens within the premises of the parlor, shaved the heads of transgender women, stripped their shirts and bras, and paraded them in the street while forcing to shout 'to become men'. The event caused massive outrage from human rights organization throughout the world, from Europe, Australia, the Americas, and to liberal sections of Asia. In February 2018, the Indonesian government planned to pass a legislation that would criminalize gay sex. The legislation is supported by all of the 10 political parties of the country, and is expected to pass before Valentines Day. Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia, along with Malaysia

As if the the human right record of Vietnam get close to Indonesian. Stop imagining as if Indonesia is heaven on earth. Dissident? Oh we indeed lock our dissident in cell, we don't lock them into cage with snake like Indonesian. Freedom of thought? HAH - HAH - HAH, speak like a true hypocrite while Indonesian prosecute people FOR. A. FCKING .SONG. If that is what your idea of freedom of thought then our country is paradise. Don't want to trust a communist? Feel free but I highly doubt people all over the world eager to bite the words coming out of the mouth of a Indonesian after checking these reports. These are not "minor violations", these are "extravagant abuses of power from the police and the military with near impunity" (not my words). 




Reashot Xigwin said:


> Again your argument can be used against another just as well. So according to your logic Israel, India & Russia remains in chaos is because their army can't maintain peace? Then forgetting how indonesia actually managed to make peace with numerous other rebel groups. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3sDjjAjubhGB3m9X-Gsxdh
> 
> So you're saying the IDF, India's & Russian armed forces is bad because they can't keep peace while the VPA is better because they can?
> 
> Wow. That's an ironclad argument over there? (Sarcasm.)


Israelis and Russian face a EXTREMELY tough time with their terrorists and that is why they never bother going out of their way to criticize armies of other countries. You Indonesian? What the Papua rebels have? Long range rockets? Artillery? Tons of dynamite? No, they have some stolen rifles at best. Remember that it was you Indonesian that want to compare armies first. As far as matter concerns, your army sucks as you fail to maintain peace. Want to bring thing to a world scope? That shiet go way above your head.

We Vietnamese feel proud of our army for their ability to maintain peace in our borders. That alone is enough to prove our army is superior to you. An army that fail to keep things in order at home but claim that they could beat other armies? That army is a JOKE and people that trust in it are FOOLS. Period



Reashot Xigwin said:


> outnumbered 2 to 1 & still ended up taking 10 people with them.
> 
> "A force of 50-70 rebels armed with military-grade weapons as well as spears and arrows attacked a group of 25 soldiers in Nduga district in a battle lasting several hours Thursday, said Muhammad Aidi, the military spokesman for Indonesia's easternmost Papua region."
> 
> You do realize Robert was also arrested for breaking the law right? Again your attempt to use the moral high ground fail when your government arrested hundreds of people like robert without a trial.



2 to 1 ? Lol for elite soldiers with automatic firearms to lose men to rebels armed with "spears and arrows" is a big SHAME. Military grade weapon? Did they include machine gun, mortars, guided missiles? No they are rifles from Cold War era. Not to mention that not every Papua rebels carry things that could go boom (as some indeed carry "spears and arrows") so don't get your tits up with your kill ratio. Killing people armed with "spears and arrows" is not an achievement.

Anyway, Kopassus is the elite formation in your country and they lost 3 man to that kind of rag tag rebels? Then I guess your macho army could not turn out quality soldiers to contain such a low level insurrection. Imagine what Hamas, ISIS, Chechen... with their zealous tenacity and modern weapon could do to your pathetic soldiers. Your government would fall in the matter of weeks.

"arrested for breaking the law" ? Singing a makeup song is a crime in Indonesia then? We Vietnamese also arrested people for breaking the law. They also got a chance to present their side of a story. We don't have to resort to moral high ground because we are already far more better than you in that regard.

Want a proof? Name one incident that involve Vietnam People Army and Vietnam Public Security Force shooting protesters. On the other hand, I could list at least dozens of incidents of that kind in Indonesia, police as well as soldiers.

Don't act as if Robertus Robert is the only one in your country that face the retard legal system of Indonesia. Indonesia beat up dissident, shoot protesters, torture prisoners... A series of complaints filled the UN Human Right Commission every year. Unlike you, I have ACTUAL SOURCES to back my claim. I would not make "vague claims" then simply say "I forgot the sources".



Reashot Xigwin said:


> 6 kilo can't do shit when we control the entrance to indonesia & the only way in is through a naval fortress.



The "naval fortress" that is guarded by the almighty Rheinmetall Oerlikon Millennium Gun? Well, we will torch every facility in that place with long range missiles and bunker buster munitions before we move on to your cities if things get too hot. Once again ,remember that your military possesses near zero protection against missiles. You guys don't have a proper SAM in service. What could you do beside letting our missiles pound you day after day?


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Trust me or a communist government that have a history of lying to its people, imprison its critics, torturing dissidents & doesn't allow freedom of thought... Oh yeah that's a real tough choice.
> 
> Again your argument can be used against another just as well. So according to your logic Israel, India & Russia remains in chaos is because their army can't maintain peace? Then forgetting how indonesia actually managed to make peace with numerous other rebel groups. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3sDjjAjubhGB3m9X-Gsxdh
> 
> So you're saying the IDF, India's & Russian armed forces is bad because they can't keep peace while the VPA is better because they can?
> 
> Wow. That's an ironclad argument over there? (Sarcasm.)
> View attachment 546291
> 
> outnumbered 2 to 1 & still ended up taking 10 people with them.
> 
> "A force of 50-70 rebels armed with military-grade weapons as well as spears and arrows attacked a group of 25 soldiers in Nduga district in a battle lasting several hours Thursday, said Muhammad Aidi, the military spokesman for Indonesia's easternmost Papua region."
> 
> You do realize Robert was also arrested for breaking the law right? Again your attempt to use the moral high ground fail when your government arrested hundreds of people like robert without a trial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6 kilo can't do shit when we control the entrance to indonesia & the only way in is through a naval fortress.


No offense but Indonesia is just a small fish on the world stage. Donald Trump visited Vietnam twice. The communist chief is scheduled to visit him at the White House this year again. Interesting deals are expected to be signed. Probably including US weapon delivery. Where is your furniture salesman Widodo?







https://m.english.vietnamnet.vn/fms...-trong-to-visit-u-s--this-year.html#ui=mobile


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> A "fun game" that YOU starts but now you claim that you don't want to continue? For me, it look like you want to have a chance to humiliate us Vietnamese at first but things turn to shiet so fast that you start: "Cmon, it's not going to become a war", "I'm out",... You talk big but once shiet hit the fans, you run away with your tail between your legs?
> 
> I know for certain that you are a certified P-U-S-S the moment you start acting as a bully in primary school, "uhuhuhuh" boy.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, "the Indonesian shoot FIRST", NOT "the Vietnamese shoot FIRST". Yes, YOU are the cause of this debate, NOT us Vietnamese. For now, the situation remain tense but if things come to shove, our Kilo subs will definitely test the Indonesian ability to defense against missile attacks... Wait, you guys have nothing that could contain missiles beside auto cannon so your A-S-S is toasted.
> 
> BTW, don't feel too proud because you dare to shoot first. Germany, Italia and Japan all shot first in WW2 while laughing about what people could do to them for such provocations. I guess your history teacher did teach you what happen to the the Axis for their bravery to shoot first, right?
> 
> 
> 
> LET HEAR IT AGAIN, FOLKS
> 
> The police used unnecessary and excessive force against demonstrators and protesters, especially in land dispute cases. In the rare instances where investigations took place, little progress was made in bringing perpetrators to justice.
> 
> 
> In January, six palm oil farmers were seriously injured in Jambi Province after Police Mobile Brigade (Brimob) officers fired rubber bullets at them in an attempt to evict them from a plantation they were working on. The plantation was the subject of an ongoing land dispute between the farmers and a palm oil company.
> In June, security forces used unnecessary and excessive force while attempting to forcibly evict a community in Langkat district, North Sumatra. The community had been involved in a land dispute with the local authorities. When the community protested against the eviction, police officers fired on the crowd without warning, injuring at least nine people. Six others were kicked and beaten.
> Repeated allegations of torture and otherwise ill-treating detainees by security forces, particularly peaceful political activists in areas with a history of independence movements such as Papua and Maluku has been reported. Independent investigations into such allegations were rare. There were no investigations into allegations of torture and other ill-treatment of 21 peaceful political activists by Special Detachment-88 (Densus-88), a police counter-terrorism unit. The 21 had been tortured during arrest, detention and interrogation in Maluku in August 2010. Caning was increasingly used as a form of judicial punishment in Aceh. At least 72 people were caned for various offences, including drinking alcohol, being alone with someone of the opposite sex who was not a marriage partner or relative (khalwat), and for gambling. The Acehnese authorities passed a series of by-laws governing the implementation of Sharia after the enactment of the province’s Special Autonomy Law in 2001
> 
> In January 2018, the Aceh police ransacked a parlor with support from the Aceh autonomous government. The police tortured all LGBT citizens within the premises of the parlor, shaved the heads of transgender women, stripped their shirts and bras, and paraded them in the street while forcing to shout 'to become men'. The event caused massive outrage from human rights organization throughout the world, from Europe, Australia, the Americas, and to liberal sections of Asia. In February 2018, the Indonesian government planned to pass a legislation that would criminalize gay sex. The legislation is supported by all of the 10 political parties of the country, and is expected to pass before Valentines Day. Indonesia has been branded as the most homophobic country in core Asia, along with Malaysia
> 
> As if the the human right record of Vietnam get close to Indonesian. Stop imagining as if Indonesia is heaven on earth. Dissident? Oh we indeed lock our dissident in cell, we don't lock them into cage with snake like Indonesian. Freedom of thought? HAH - HAH - HAH, speak like a true hypocrite while Indonesian prosecute people FOR. A. FCKING .SONG. If that is what your idea of freedom of thought then our country is paradise. Don't want to trust a communist? Feel free but I highly doubt people all over the world eager to bite the words coming out of the mouth of a Indonesian after checking these reports. These are not "minor violations", these are "extravagant abuses of power from the police and the military with near impunity" (not my words).
> 
> 
> 
> Israelis and Russian face a EXTREMELY tough time with their terrorists and that is why they never bother going out of their way to criticize armies of other countries. You Indonesian? What the Papua rebels have? Long range rockets? Artillery? Tons of dynamite? No, they have some stolen rifles at best. Remember that it was you Indonesian that want to compare armies first. As far as matter concerns, your army sucks as you fail to maintain peace. Want to bring thing to a world scope? That shiet go way above your head.
> 
> We Vietnamese feel proud of our army for their ability to maintain peace in our borders. That alone is enough to prove our army is superior to you. An army that fail to keep things in order at home but claim that they could beat other armies? That army is a JOKE and people that trust in it are FOOLS. Period
> 
> 
> 
> 2 to 1 ? Lol for elite soldiers with automatic firearms to lose men to rebels armed with "spears and arrows" is a big SHAME. Military grade weapon? Did they include machine gun, mortars, guided missiles? No they are rifles from Cold War era. Not to mention that not every Papua rebels carry things that could go boom (as some indeed carry "spears and arrows") so don't get your tits up with your kill ratio. Killing people armed with "spears and arrows" is not an achievement.
> 
> Anyway, Kopassus is the elite formation in your country and they lost 3 man to that kind of rag tag rebels? Then I guess your macho army could not turn out quality soldiers to contain such a low level insurrection. Imagine what Hamas, ISIS, Chechen... with their zealous tenacity and modern weapon could do to your pathetic soldiers. Your government would fall in the matter of weeks.
> 
> "arrested for breaking the law" ? Singing a makeup song is a crime in Indonesia then? We Vietnamese also arrested people for breaking the law. They also got a chance to present their side of a story. We don't have to resort to moral high ground because we are already far more better than you in that regard.
> 
> Want a proof? Name one incident that involve Vietnam People Army and Vietnam Public Security Force shooting protesters. On the other hand, I could list at least dozens of incidents of that kind in Indonesia, police as well as soldiers.
> 
> Don't act as if Robertus Robert is the only one in your country that face the retard legal system of Indonesia. Indonesia beat up dissident, shoot protesters, torture prisoners... A series of complaints filled the UN Human Right Commission every year. Unlike you, I have ACTUAL SOURCES to back my claim. I would not make "vague claims" then simply say "I forgot the sources".
> 
> 
> 
> The "naval fortress" that is guarded by the almighty Rheinmetall Oerlikon Millennium Gun? Well, we will torch every facility in that place with long range missiles and bunker buster munitions before we move on to your cities if things get too hot. Once again ,remember that your military possesses near zero protection against missiles. You guys don't have a proper SAM in service. What could you do beside letting our missiles pound you day after day?



Vietnam list of human rights abuse:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_conviction_of_14_Vietnamese_dissidents


Defendants

All 14 defendants were arrested in 2011 as part of the 2011 crackdown on Vietnamese youth activists. They were writers and political and social activists, mainly belonging to Redemptorist group in the Roman Catholic Church.[1][5] They have engaged in community service and fighting against land seizures and corruption. Recently, many activists have been critical of the Vietnamese government, backing other dissidents and bloggers and called for democracy and human rights.[1][5]Some defendants have participated in peaceful protests in support of other previously-convicted dissidents.[

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ushroom-freed-vietnam-blogger-released-prison

She was later convicted for “anti-state propaganda” for publishing damning Facebook posts about deaths in police custody, a toxic spill in central Vietnam and criticisms of the ruling Communist party.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vietnams-crackdown-dissidents-isnt-new-33081

Article twenty-five of the nation’s constitution protects these civil liberties, but the Reporters Without Borders’ Press Freedom Index ranks Vietnam 175 out of 180 countries. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced Vietnam’s arrest and imprisonment of bloggers who have criticized the government, such as Nguyen Van Hoa, who was convicted of spreading anti-state propaganda and sentenced to seven years in prison for reporting on a chemical spill along Vietnam’s central coast in 2017. Earlier that year, a court sentenced blogger Nguyen Ngoc Nhu Quynh, also known as Mother Mushroom, to ten years in prison for writing about the impact of the spill on fish. Paul Robertson of Human Rights Watch’s Asia division criticized the verdictas an example of the Vietnamese government’s “paranoid desire to maintain political control” taking precedent over “justice and human rights.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...seeks-silence-dissidents-181115062123198.html

"They raided the concert. They said the singer was singing UNPERMITTED songs," Trang said. 






You have no ides how much I waited for you to fall to my trap.

No matter how bad indonesia are, vietnam will always be beneath us in every regard. So there's some consolation in that.

Meanwhile there's thousands of dead of VCs for a couple of dozens GIs. If we compared k/d ratios then vietnam will surely lose. War isn't a game, kid. I come from a military family & the first thing they tell u is that sh!ts happens. Israel lost 100s of soldiers during the lebanon war against an army that might as well have nothing compared to the israeli, Russia although won the 2008 georgian war was humiliated by the much smaller georgian army during the course of the war. 

It seems vietnamese forget that they also chuckled spears & rocks at a more superior foes & died in the hundreds but still managed to kill some. 

& remember the papuans are braver than the vietnamese. They have no problems putting themselves in the firing line just to recover their friends's body

If you can't handle of seeing your armed forces being criticized then you shouldn't be in the internet in the 1st place. I mean when you guys posted that conscripts can only have an allowance of 3 bullets for weekly training how am I not supposed to laugh.

Question: how can u use cruise missiles if we destroy every viet naval assets? Last time I check we have the better navy & air force. Better training too because vpa rarely trained for actual combat. 

Just google at how many joint military exercises we have in a year compared to the vpa for the truth.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Question: how can u use cruise missiles if we destroy every viet naval assets? Last time I check we have the better navy & air force. Better training too because vpa rarely trained for actual combat.
> 
> Just google at how many joint military exercises we have in a year compared to the vpa for the truth.


Wow, better training, but still can do almost Nothing to our guardships in disputed zone


----------



## warzone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Vietnam list of human rights abuse:
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_conviction_of_14_Vietnamese_dissidents
> 
> 
> Defendants
> 
> All 14 defendants were arrested in 2011 as part of the 2011 crackdown on Vietnamese youth activists. They were writers and political and social activists, mainly belonging to Redemptorist group in the Roman Catholic Church.[1][5] They have engaged in community service and fighting against land seizures and corruption. Recently, many activists have been critical of the Vietnamese government, backing other dissidents and bloggers and called for democracy and human rights.[1][5]Some defendants have participated in peaceful protests in support of other previously-convicted dissidents.[
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ushroom-freed-vietnam-blogger-released-prison
> 
> She was later convicted for “anti-state propaganda” for publishing damning Facebook posts about deaths in police custody, a toxic spill in central Vietnam and criticisms of the ruling Communist party.
> 
> https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vietnams-crackdown-dissidents-isnt-new-33081
> 
> Article twenty-five of the nation’s constitution protects these civil liberties, but the Reporters Without Borders’ Press Freedom Index ranks Vietnam 175 out of 180 countries. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced Vietnam’s arrest and imprisonment of bloggers who have criticized the government, such as Nguyen Van Hoa, who was convicted of spreading anti-state propaganda and sentenced to seven years in prison for reporting on a chemical spill along Vietnam’s central coast in 2017. Earlier that year, a court sentenced blogger Nguyen Ngoc Nhu Quynh, also known as Mother Mushroom, to ten years in prison for writing about the impact of the spill on fish. Paul Robertson of Human Rights Watch’s Asia division criticized the verdictas an example of the Vietnamese government’s “paranoid desire to maintain political control” taking precedent over “justice and human rights.”
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...seeks-silence-dissidents-181115062123198.html
> 
> "They raided the concert. They said the singer was singing UNPERMITTED songs," Trang said.
> 
> View attachment 546405
> 
> 
> You have no ides how much I waited for you to fall to my trap.
> 
> No matter how bad indonesia are, vietnam will always be beneath us in every regard. So there's some consolation in that.
> 
> Meanwhile there's thousands of dead of VCs for a couple of dozens GIs. If we compared k/d ratios then vietnam will surely lose. War isn't a game, kid. I come from a military family & the first thing they tell u is that sh!ts happens. Israel lost 100s of soldiers during the lebanon war against an army that might as well have nothing compared to the israeli, Russia although won the 2008 georgian war was humiliated by the much smaller georgian army during the course of the war.
> 
> It seems vietnamese forget that they also chuckled spears & rocks at a more superior foes & died in the hundreds but still managed to kill some.
> 
> & remember the papuans are braver than the vietnamese. They have no problems putting themselves in the firing line just to recover their friends's body
> 
> If you can't handle of seeing your armed forces being criticized then you shouldn't be in the internet in the 1st place. I mean when you guys posted that conscripts can only have an allowance of 3 bullets for weekly training how am I not supposed to laugh.
> 
> Question: how can u use cruise missiles if we destroy every viet naval assets? Last time I check we have the better navy & air force. Better training too because vpa rarely trained for actual combat.
> 
> Just google at how many joint military exercises we have in a year compared to the vpa for the truth.



Indonesia have prove nothing in combat in the pas 60 years and they have problems solving their own small conflicts. Indonesia army should focus (and stop run away from the Aussies army) before talking big and mean... You can practice all you want and have the best equipments, and it doesn't guarantee you anything. Just ask the Saudis about Yemen...

So your family have military background? They are cooks, nurses, vehicules repairmen, administration, truck drivers, .... I guess they saw a lot of major Indonesians conflicts like the Papua, East Timor when Indo fight 30 against 1. The Indo know nothing about about majors wars, massive destruction and millions of deaths... just shut up

A modern army today, the combat soldiers (fighting force) represent only between 10-20% of the personnel and the vast majority are non-combat.

When you fight against a super power technological superior with destructive air power and illimited funds for war, the ratio will always be high... More than 100 Russians mercenaries killed by US planes (against 0 US casualties) last February in Syria and the same can be said about the ratio between Iraqi VS US in 2003, the Korean War (PLA vs US) and also the WW2 (Japan vs US) so explain me the difference between these ratio versus the VN war ratio smarty?

It well reported (just google it, smarty) that US military inflated the enemy casualties during VN war to win support for the war. They would inflated the number and also count cilivians as death combattants. Explain me the ratio almost 1;1 for dogfights between North VN vs US...LOL Not bad when we have the same technology. That ratio was the start of the program TOPGUN training for the US air force to solve that ratio...lol

Im sure the Indonesians will doing much better like 1:1 against the US then anyone elses because Indo are tons of experience fighting small ragtag rebels forces number betweeen few hundred to few thousands. Like you said in previous post, with the Indonesians sending troop in VN , the US will win the Viet Nam war


----------



## Viva_Viet

warzone said:


> Indonesia have prove nothing in combat in the pas 60 years and they have problems solving their own small conflicts. Indonesia army should focus (and stop run away from the Aussies army) before talking big and mean... You can practice all you want and have the best equipments, and it doesn't guarantee you anything. Just ask the Saudis about Yemen...
> 
> So your family have military background? They are cooks, nurses, vehicules repairmen, administration, truck drivers, .... I guess they saw a lot of major Indonesians conflicts like the Papua, East Timor when Indo fight 30 against 1. The Indo know nothing about about majors wars, massive destruction and millions of deaths... just shut up
> 
> A modern army today, the combat soldiers (fighting force) represent only between 10-20% of the personnel and the vast majority are non-combat.
> 
> When you fight against a super power technological superior with destructive air power and illimited funds for war, the ratio will always be high... More than 100 Russians mercenaries killed by US planes (against 0 US casualties) last February in Syria and the same can be said about the ratio between Iraqi VS US in 2003, the Korean War (PLA vs US) and also the WW2 (Japan vs US) so explain me the difference between these ratio versus the VN war ratio smarty?
> 
> It well reported (just google it, smarty) that US military inflated the enemy casualties during VN war to win support for the war. They would inflated the number and also count cilivians as death combattants. Explain me the ratio almost 1;1 for dogfights between North VN vs US...LOL Not bad when we have the same technology. That ratio was the start of the program TOPGUN training for the US air force to solve that ratio...lol
> 
> Im sure the Indonesians will doing much better like 1:1 against the US then anyone elses because Indo are tons of experience fighting small ragtag rebels forces number betweeen few hundred to few thousands. Like you said in previous post, with the Indonesians sending troop in VN , the US will win the Viet Nam war


ID has super soldiers, so they can stop our guard ships in disputed zone wt their bare hands. Thats explain why ID dont have any guard ship can match wt VN ones cos they put so much money on training "super soldiers "


----------



## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> You have no ides how much I waited for you to fall to my trap.
> 
> No matter how bad indonesia are, vietnam will always be beneath us in every regard. So there's some consolation in that.



Uh huh, very SERIOUS incidents indeed....Wait, NOT . A .SINGLE. CASUALTY. Have Vietnamese DIED because of Vietnamese bullets? NO. Have Indonesian DIED because of Indonesian bullets? YES, PLENTY.

So you conclusion that "vietnam will always be beneath us in every regard" seem fcking hilarious. At the very least, Vietnam is not that EAGER to KILL its own countryman. Could you even comprehend the difference between countries?


One side shoot people, one side lock people.
One side torture people, one side lock people.
One side beat people, one side lock people

Every regard? I cannot see ONE FCKING regard that Indonesia Vietnam regarding dissident treatment, less EVERY.
We never SHED blood against our kins while Indonesian ALREADY shed plenty. As if murder is a lighter crime than "holding people in cells and breakup unannounced gathering" (which you Indonesian also love to do to protesters demonstrations)



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Meanwhile there's thousands of dead of VCs for a couple of dozens GIs. If we compared k/d ratios then vietnam will surely lose. War isn't a game, kid. I come from a military family & the first thing they tell u is that sh!ts happens. Israel lost 100s of soldiers during the lebanon war against an army that might as well have nothing compared to the israeli, Russia although won the 2008 georgian war was humiliated by the much smaller georgian army during the course of the war.



We are speaking in present term, mate. Stop jumping back and forth between timeline. But if you want a comparison between kill ratio then...


Vietnam War: last for 19 years, we lost 1,000,000 man, the US + South Vietnam + Their Allies lost 390,000 (far from just a couple of dozens GIs). Kill ratio? Roughly 2.5 : 1, not too shabby for an army of farmers, right?


Indonesian National Revolution: last for 4 years, Indonesia lost between 45,000 and 100, 000 man to British 1.200 and Dutch 6,100. Kill ratio? Vary from 6 : 1 to 13 : 1. Yeah, you guys SUCK.

"War isn't a game, kid": Then stop fcking threaten others with war FIRST. "I come from a military family"? So we are comparing background now? Well, I technically SERVE in the Army as a militia. I smell more gunpowder in a week than your Indonesian troops in Papua in a year, just to say about about training tempo. So don't bother bringing out last decade war to explain the poor performance of our army.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> It seems vietnamese forget that they also chuckled spears & rocks at a more superior foes & died in the hundreds but still managed to kill some.
> 
> & remember the papuans are braver than the vietnamese. They have no problems putting themselves in the firing line just to recover their friends's body



We NEVER throw spear against American soldier, we give them bullet. You might be confused between the Vietnam War and the Indochina War. Go through your history book again.

"Papuans are braver than the vietnamese"? Brave enough to take sortie after sortie from B-52 bombers? No offense against the people in Papua but now, you are acting like the Soviet in the Winter War again:


Soviet:
"We cannot defeat Finland though we should be much stronger than them? Then we might as well describe them as an invincible army with tanks and planes while they practically have nothing"


Indonesia:
"We cannot defeat the Papuan rebels though we should be much stronger than them? Then we might as well describe them as an invincible army with tanks and planes while they practically have nothing"

See something familiar? Wait a bit longer and you would claim that the Papuan rebels are comparable to the US Navy Seal  Face it, your army SUCKS. Your Kopassus SUCKS. And most of all you SUCK.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Question: how can u use cruise missiles if we destroy every viet naval assets? Last time I check we have the better navy & air force. Better training too because vpa rarely trained for actual combat.
> 
> Just google at how many joint military exercises we have in a year compared to the vpa for the truth.




"every viet naval assets" With what? Hope and dream? We have SAMs as well as land based anti ship missiles that cover every major coastal cities. How could you approach our bases without being obliterated in the first progress? Unlike us, you armed forces have zero air defense against missile and no land-based anti ship missiles. Everything you could do is to toss aircraft and ship against us but guess what: We don't have to get close to Indonesia to launch attacks as we have CRUISE MISSILES. Name one thing you have in your service to contain that.


"joint military exercises" ? We would not say outright that such exercises carry no benefits but in a 1 vs 1 scenario, how do suggest that your Army put the experience you earn from "joint military exercises" to use? The VPA is not a army that like fanfare, we don't invite foreign journalists to our army excises in order to get some praises. Our Armed Forces focus EXCLUSIVELY on combine-arm operations, nothing more.


"Better training too because vpa rarely trained for actual combat" oh more vague claims that you conveniently "forget the source" then? We train around the clock and take part in exercise every quarter. But I could show proof that we are better than you, proof that even you could access. Again, we are in the 21st century, don't jumb back to the Vietnam War at your leisure to compare 1970s and 2010s. You don't compare WW1 Mark IV tank with M1 Abrams. But if you like past stories so much then I can show you the performance of your army in the war against the Dutch. 

Vietnam: No insurrection, terrorists attack for the last 20 years
Indonesia: Ongoing insurrection, constant terrorists attack for the last 20 years

You claim that you have a good army, a "regional power with global reach" but your army could not secure peace? Then your army is nowhere as good as you claim to be. Plain and simple. Thing might be different if what you face are well-trained rebels armed with top of the line weapon but as they are now, the Papuan rebels are way below average when it comes to weapon. If even the almighty Kopassus fall to rebels with "spear and arrow" then it's natural to conclude that the rest of your army would definitely yield far worse results against actual military.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Uh huh, very SERIOUS incidents indeed....Wait, NOT . A .SINGLE. CASUALTY. Have Vietnamese DIED because of Vietnamese bullets? NO. Have Indonesian DIED because of Indonesian bullets? YES, PLENTY.
> 
> So you conclusion that "vietnam will always be beneath us in every regard" seem fcking hilarious. At the very least, Vietnam is not that EAGER to KILL its own countryman. Could you even comprehend the difference between countries?
> 
> 
> One side shoot people, one side lock people.
> One side torture people, one side lock people.
> One side beat people, one side lock people
> 
> Every regard? I cannot see ONE FCKING regard that Indonesia Vietnam regarding dissident treatment, less EVERY.
> We never SHED blood against our kins while Indonesian ALREADY shed plenty. As if murder is a lighter crime than "holding people in cells and breakup unannounced gathering" (which you Indonesian also love to do to protesters demonstrations)
> 
> 
> 
> We are speaking in present term, mate. Stop jumping back and forth between timeline. But if you want a comparison between kill ratio then...
> 
> 
> Vietnam War: last for 19 years, we lost 1,000,000 man, the US + South Vietnam + Their Allies lost 390,000 (far from just a couple of dozens GIs). Kill ratio? Roughly 2.5 : 1, not too shabby for an army of farmers, right?
> 
> 
> Indonesian National Revolution: last for 4 years, Indonesia lost between 45,000 and 100, 000 man to British 1.200 and Dutch 6,100. Kill ratio? Vary from 6 : 1 to 13 : 1. Yeah, you guys SUCK.
> 
> "War isn't a game, kid": Then stop fcking threaten others with war FIRST. "I come from a military family"? So we are comparing background now? Well, I technically SERVE in the Army as a militia. I smell more gunpowder in a week than your Indonesian troops in Papua in a year, just to say about about training tempo. So don't bother bringing out last decade war to explain the poor performance of our army.
> 
> 
> 
> We NEVER throw spear against American soldier, we give them bullet. You might be confused between the Vietnam War and the Indochina War. Go through your history book again.
> 
> "Papuans are braver than the vietnamese"? Brave enough to take sortie after sortie from B-52 bombers? No offense against the people in Papua but now, you are acting like the Soviet in the Winter War again:
> 
> 
> Soviet:
> "We cannot defeat Finland though we should be much stronger than them? Then we might as well describe them as an invincible army with tanks and planes while they practically have nothing"
> 
> 
> Indonesia:
> "We cannot defeat the Papuan rebels though we should be much stronger than them? Then we might as well describe them as an invincible army with tanks and planes while they practically have nothing"
> 
> See something familiar? Wait a bit longer and you would claim that the Papuan rebels are comparable to the US Navy Seal  Face it, your army SUCKS. Your Kopassus SUCKS. And most of all you SUCK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "every viet naval assets" With what? Hope and dream? We have SAMs as well as land based anti ship missiles that cover every major coastal cities. How could you approach our bases without being obliterated in the first progress? Unlike us, you armed forces have zero air defense against missile and no land-based anti ship missiles. Everything you could do is to toss aircraft and ship against us but guess what: We don't have to get close to Indonesia to launch attacks as we have CRUISE MISSILES. Name one thing you have in your service to contain that.
> 
> 
> "joint military exercises" ? We would not say outright that such exercises carry no benefits but in a 1 vs 1 scenario, how do suggest that your Army put the experience you earn from "joint military exercises" to use? The VPA is not a army that like fanfare, we don't invite foreign journalists to our army excises in order to get some praises. Our Armed Forces focus EXCLUSIVELY on combine-arm operations, nothing more.
> 
> 
> "Better training too because vpa rarely trained for actual combat" oh more vague claims that you conveniently "forget the source" then? We train around the clock and take part in exercise every quarter. But I could show proof that we are better than you, proof that even you could access. Again, we are in the 21st century, don't jumb back to the Vietnam War at your leisure to compare 1970s and 2010s. You don't compare WW1 Mark IV tank with M1 Abrams. But if you like past stories so much then I can show you the performance of your army in the war against the Dutch.
> 
> Vietnam: No insurrection, terrorists attack for the last 20 years
> Indonesia: Ongoing insurrection, constant terrorists attack for the last 20 years
> 
> You claim that you have a good army, a "regional power with global reach" but your army could not secure peace? Then your army is nowhere as good as you claim to be. Plain and simple. Thing might be different if what you face are well-trained rebels armed with top of the line weapon but as they are now, the Papuan rebels are way below average when it comes to weapon. If even the almighty Kopassus fall to rebels with "spear and arrow" then it's natural to conclude that the rest of your army would definitely yield far worse results against actual military.


"Captain Indos" is far more superor than Captain Ames bro. Captain Ames nid a shield in the movie, but Captain Indos only use bare hands to stop VN guard ships


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Uh huh, very SERIOUS incidents indeed....Wait, NOT . A .SINGLE. CASUALTY. Have Vietnamese DIED because of Vietnamese bullets? NO. Have Indonesian DIED because of Indonesian bullets? YES, PLENTY.
> 
> So you conclusion that "vietnam will always be beneath us in every regard" seem fcking hilarious. At the very least, Vietnam is not that EAGER to KILL its own countryman. Could you even comprehend the difference between countries?
> 
> 
> One side shoot people, one side lock people.
> One side torture people, one side lock people.
> One side beat people, one side lock people
> 
> Every regard? I cannot see ONE FCKING regard that Indonesia Vietnam regarding dissident treatment, less EVERY.
> We never SHED blood against our kins while Indonesian ALREADY shed plenty. As if murder is a lighter crime than "holding people in cells and breakup unannounced gathering" (which you Indonesian also love to do to protesters demonstrations)
> 
> 
> 
> We are speaking in present term, mate. Stop jumping back and forth between timeline. But if you want a comparison between kill ratio then...
> 
> 
> Vietnam War: last for 19 years, we lost 1,000,000 man, the US + South Vietnam + Their Allies lost 390,000 (far from just a couple of dozens GIs). Kill ratio? Roughly 2.5 : 1, not too shabby for an army of farmers, right?
> 
> 
> Indonesian National Revolution: last for 4 years, Indonesia lost between 45,000 and 100, 000 man to British 1.200 and Dutch 6,100. Kill ratio? Vary from 6 : 1 to 13 : 1. Yeah, you guys SUCK.
> 
> "War isn't a game, kid": Then stop fcking threaten others with war FIRST. "I come from a military family"? So we are comparing background now? Well, I technically SERVE in the Army as a militia. I smell more gunpowder in a week than your Indonesian troops in Papua in a year, just to say about about training tempo. So don't bother bringing out last decade war to explain the poor performance of our army.
> 
> 
> 
> We NEVER throw spear against American soldier, we give them bullet. You might be confused between the Vietnam War and the Indochina War. Go through your history book again.
> 
> "Papuans are braver than the vietnamese"? Brave enough to take sortie after sortie from B-52 bombers? No offense against the people in Papua but now, you are acting like the Soviet in the Winter War again:
> 
> 
> Soviet:
> "We cannot defeat Finland though we should be much stronger than them? Then we might as well describe them as an invincible army with tanks and planes while they practically have nothing"
> 
> 
> Indonesia:
> "We cannot defeat the Papuan rebels though we should be much stronger than them? Then we might as well describe them as an invincible army with tanks and planes while they practically have nothing"
> 
> See something familiar? Wait a bit longer and you would claim that the Papuan rebels are comparable to the US Navy Seal  Face it, your army SUCKS. Your Kopassus SUCKS. And most of all you SUCK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "every viet naval assets" With what? Hope and dream? We have SAMs as well as land based anti ship missiles that cover every major coastal cities. How could you approach our bases without being obliterated in the first progress? Unlike us, you armed forces have zero air defense against missile and no land-based anti ship missiles. Everything you could do is to toss aircraft and ship against us but guess what: We don't have to get close to Indonesia to launch attacks as we have CRUISE MISSILES. Name one thing you have in your service to contain that.
> 
> 
> "joint military exercises" ? We would not say outright that such exercises carry no benefits but in a 1 vs 1 scenario, how do suggest that your Army put the experience you earn from "joint military exercises" to use? The VPA is not a army that like fanfare, we don't invite foreign journalists to our army excises in order to get some praises. Our Armed Forces focus EXCLUSIVELY on combine-arm operations, nothing more.
> 
> 
> "Better training too because vpa rarely trained for actual combat" oh more vague claims that you conveniently "forget the source" then? We train around the clock and take part in exercise every quarter. But I could show proof that we are better than you, proof that even you could access. Again, we are in the 21st century, don't jumb back to the Vietnam War at your leisure to compare 1970s and 2010s. You don't compare WW1 Mark IV tank with M1 Abrams. But if you like past stories so much then I can show you the performance of your army in the war against the Dutch.
> 
> Vietnam: No insurrection, terrorists attack for the last 20 years
> Indonesia: Ongoing insurrection, constant terrorists attack for the last 20 years
> 
> You claim that you have a good army, a "regional power with global reach" but your army could not secure peace? Then your army is nowhere as good as you claim to be. Plain and simple. Thing might be different if what you face are well-trained rebels armed with top of the line weapon but as they are now, the Papuan rebels are way below average when it comes to weapon. If even the almighty Kopassus fall to rebels with "spear and arrow" then it's natural to conclude that the rest of your army would definitely yield far worse results against actual military.



Why can't you just admit your country is worse than us. If u can't vote, protest or demand fair wages then you are objectively speaking are far worse than us. Hell even cambodia scored better than yours. 

Somehow killing someone in detention for speaking out against corruption & enslaving someone is better somehow?

Don't you know? Vietnam don't have enough bullets to spare. They pretty much kill their citizens in prisons by torturing them.

North korea don't have a terrorism problem & doesn't need to use bullets (in public)... You comparing yourself to north korea? 

If vpa trained in joint operation in secret (which I doubt it) how do you keep it secret from the public? Thousands of people & millions of dollars worth of material don't just disappear & reappears. Unless vietnam's corruption is that bad? And can I have some proof of that plz.

Also Vietnam don't have the equivalent of a joint chief of staffs or panglima. To coordinate between the different branches. The Politburo is the one making the military decision. Yep the VPA will be constrained by government bureaucracy if war ever breaks out.

VPA is not a military they're technically a branch of the communist party. They will never be an efficient fighting force as long as the communist is in charge. 

Again we don't need to be afraid of vietnam's missiles hitting any civy because vietnam CANNOT wage an offensive war. Didn't I just said that the natuna airbase can strike 5 country? That country included yours more specifically the airbase & naval port in the south. 










Phu quoc, nhon thraob & the airforce bases in the south will be decimated before the main fleet from cahm ranh arrived. By then it would be too late. 

VPA are untested & untrained in combat. While TNI already have an experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Why can't you just admit your country is worse than us. If u can't vote, protest or demand fair wages then you are objectively speaking are far worse than us. Hell even cambodia scored better than yours.
> 
> Somehow killing someone in detention for speaking out against corruption & enslaving someone is better somehow?
> 
> Don't you know? Vietnam don't have enough bullets to spare. They pretty much kill their citizens in prisons by torturing them.
> 
> North korea don't have a terrorism problem & doesn't need to use bullets (in public)... You comparing yourself to north korea?
> 
> If vpa trained in joint operation in secret (which I doubt it) how do you keep it secret from the public? Thousands of people & millions of dollars worth of material don't just disappear & reappears. Unless vietnam's corruption is that bad? And can I have some proof of that plz.
> 
> Also Vietnam don't have the equivalent of a joint chief of staffs or panglima. To coordinate between the different branches. The Politburo is the one making the military decision. Yep the VPA will be constrained by government bureaucracy if war ever breaks out.
> 
> VPA is not a military they're technically a branch of the communist party. They will never be an efficient fighting force as long as the communist is in charge.
> 
> Again we don't need to be afraid of vietnam's missiles hitting any civy because vietnam CANNOT wage an offensive war. Didn't I just said that the natuna airbase can strike 5 country? That country included yours more specifically the airbase & naval port in the south.
> 
> View attachment 546500
> 
> View attachment 546501
> 
> 
> Phu quoc, nhon thraob & the airforce bases in the south will be decimated before the main fleet from cahm ranh arrived. By then it would be too late.
> 
> VPA are untested & untrained in combat. While TNI already have an experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches.


Then stop our guard ships in disputed zone first. We r taking tons of good fish, crab, losbter in VN-ID disputed zone evryday and leave Nothing to ID fisherman 

VN rammed ID guard ship and arrest ID officer. But ID " super man " came to resuce and forced VN to release the officer 

--------------------------
*Detained fisheries official released by Vietnam*

Tama Salim
The Jakarta Post
Jakarta / Tue, May 30, 2017 / 10:59 am



Vietnam Coast Guard 8005 vessel allegedly hit a Vietnamese-flagged fishing boat, which was previously caught by Indonesian authorities for alleged poaching in Indonesian waters. The boat sunk and Indonesian patrol personnel Danang Gunawan Wibisono, who was guarding it, was detained by the Vietnamese authorities. (The Jakarta Post/Source)
*0*
SHARES
Vietnam released on Monday an Indonesian fisheries official who was recently detained by the Vietnamese coast guard after intercepting five Vietnamese fishing boats in waters allegedly claimed by both countries.

Danang Gunawan Wibisono, an officer from the Marine and Fisheries Ministry (KKP) who was taken into custody by Vietnamese coast guard officials last week, arrived in Jakarta on Monday following “intensive coordination through diplomatic channels” between the governments of Indonesia and Vietnam, KKP secretary general Rifky Hardjianto revealed.

“Gunawan was a crewmember onboard Hiu Macan 01 patrol ship and took part in the processing of five Vietnamese fishing boats captured on May 21 in the Natuna Sea, Riau islands,” Rifky said in a statement to _The Jakarta Post_ late on Monday.

The KKP official was evacuated to a Vietnamese coast guard ship when the captured boat he was inspecting – KH 97579 TS – capsized at the location it was seized. He spent a few days on board the coast guard vessel until it docked in Ho Chi Minh City, before the Vietnamese side handed him over to the Indonesian Consulate General there on Saturday, Rifky said.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2017/05/30/detained-fisheries-official-released-by-vietnam.html


----------



## Aqsuperman

First, I have proposition for you: You see, this is the Vietnam Defense Forum after all and therefore, we Vietnamese love to post things that are relevant to the Vietnam People Armed Forces in here. This debate stray way too far from the subject of the thread and the Vietnamese members are getting extremely frustrated. Striver whatever , the one that starts everything already fled the scene. 

So I have 3 courses of action for you:

You drop it. We drop it. Then the Indonesian and the Vietnamese could go back to do what they want to without giving a fck about the others. Just like the old days. 

Dying to settle an argument that no longer prove too relevant to each parties? Then make a separate thread, name it "Indonesia vs Vietnam: The Argument That Last Until The Apocalypse" or something like that. As long as you keep the name neutral then it's fine. Afterward, tag me and a couple of Vietnamese members in there and we shall have our showdown. 

You are an ultra D-I-C-K that wan to keep things exactly the way there are? Then simply keep doing what you are doing. It's going to be a test of endurance and hopefully it ends before the Papua rebels achieve independence for their land. 
Your call.

In the case you go with the D-I-C-K option , feel free to feast your eyes to the below 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Why can't you just admit your country is worse than us. If u can't vote, protest or demand fair wages then you are objectively speaking are far worse than us. Hell even cambodia scored better than yours.
> 
> Somehow killing someone in detention for speaking out against corruption & enslaving someone is better somehow?
> 
> Don't you know? Vietnam don't have enough bullets to spare. They pretty much kill their citizens in prisons by torturing them.
> 
> North korea don't have a terrorism problem & doesn't need to use bullets (in public)... You comparing yourself to north korea?



Sources, sources, sources, sources annnnnnnnnd sources. Show it to me, mate. "Oh Vietnam kill people in secret like North Korea, no one know about that but me, an Indonesian happen to know about them. I just knew it". That is a rambling of fool that is running out of reason (and possibility sanity). You really test my patient with your imagination. We are talking facts that could be backed by credible sources, not speculations, unfounded analyses and dreams. We are are talking about Vietnam, not North Korea, not China, not any country that you kindly link to us. I . NEED. PROOF. Want me to spell it out? P-R-O-O-F. Not I-M-A-G-I-N-A-T-I-O-N. 

You Indonesian KILL people, you Indonesian TORTURE people and most of all, You Indonesian TREAT minor ethics like TRASH. I could throw tons of article about that but what could you do? Show me article that Vietnam government lock some people up? So far, UN Human Right Commission never charge us with locking minorities into cages with snakes, torturing people and shooting protesters. Understand? You SHOOT people. We DON'T SHOOT people. So is it true that we lack bullet so we could not shoot people? As if anyone the world bite that kind of logic lol. 

Here, use this search phrase: "Diễn tập quân sự Việt Nam". It stand for "Vietnam military exercises". See if we have ever experience lacks of ammunition. Not to mention that most of the videos on the internet come from Vietnam reservists, not front line formations. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> If vpa trained in joint operation in secret (which I doubt it) how do you keep it secret from the public? Thousands of people & millions of dollars worth of material don't just disappear & reappears. Unless vietnam's corruption is that bad? And can I have some proof of that plz.



It's called "military secrecy" lol. Is that a new word to the Indonesian? How could the American develop new generation aircraft? Well they pick a large stretch of land, quarantine the place, name it Area 51 and take care of their business there without prying eyes of the public. The same thing happen in Vietnam and as ammunition and soldier shuffle between bases, "millions of dollars worth of material don't just disappear & reappears" indeed occur. But for the Indonesian soldiers that are dying for public attention, I bet they post pictures about their bases and onsite equipment on the Internet day and night, right? That what you make your army SUCKS. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also Vietnam don't have the equivalent of a joint chief of staffs or panglima. To coordinate between the different branches. The Politburo is the one making the military decision. Yep the VPA will be constrained by government bureaucracy if war ever breaks out.
> 
> VPA is not a military they're technically a branch of the communist party. They will never be an efficient fighting force as long as the communist is in charge.



More claim without backup sources  Sure, Politburo members have a saying in military matters but thing automatically follow already-established work frames in wartime including local defense and overall strategy. The Politburo then only need to win the war. We fought 3 FCKING LONG WARS from the 1945 to 1990 so if our coordination system is too bureaucratic , we would ALL wind up dead a long time ago. For your information, back in the days, we successfully deal with 3 members from the UN Security Council so don't tell us how to wage wars. You Indonesian could barely coordinate you troops smooth enough to kill small-time rebels and you dare claim that you could outsmart us in combat? GET. FCKING. REAL. 

Want proof? How about we go back and analyze the kill ratio again? 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Again we don't need to be afraid of vietnam's missiles hitting any civy because vietnam CANNOT wage an offensive war. Didn't I just said that the natuna airbase can strike 5 country? That country included yours more specifically the airbase & naval port in the south.













Phu quoc, nhon thraob & the airforce bases in the south will be decimated before the main fleet from cahm ranh arrived. By then it would be too late.

VPA are untested & untrained in combat. While TNI already have an experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches.[/QUOTE]

Let's see what we, the poor VPA got in term of air defense and anti ship weapon in our naval and navy bases...

This





This 





This 




This





Annnnnnnnd...this. A CIWS just like your awesome _Millennium_ 






"VPA are untested & untrained in combat. While TNI already have an experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches"

Uhh... you are high on drugs? the VPA already FOUGHT and CAME OUT ON TOP in a series of wars. "Untested & untrained" my A-S-S. Here, use this phrase "Wars that involve Vietnam" and count how many conflict the VPA participated in. 

Once again, we have to come back on thing you Indonesia are afraid to admit: your army SUCKS. 

"experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches." What do you mean by "actual enemies"? The Papua? The Aceh? Those are..."actual enemies" to you? you must not mean the Dutch or the Anglo, right? Because that mean the French, the US and the Chinese that had a beef with the VPA in the past are not "actual enemies"? 

Well, I hate to break it to you but: Regardless of what you brag about your "almighty Indonesia army", it's the PERFORMANCE on the field that DECIDE it all. 


You have an ongoing insurrection in your country? Check.
For the last 10 years or so, your country is ravaged by terrorist attacks? Check.
Indonesian rebels in Papua have nothing but terrible weapon but they still manage to waste 3 soldier from the elite Kopassus? Check
In Vietnam, we have none of those. Good enough of a reason for you?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> First, I have proposition for you: You see, this is the Vietnam Defense Forum after all and therefore, we Vietnamese love to post things that are relevant to the Vietnam People Armed Forces in here. This debate stray way too far from the subject of the thread and the Vietnamese members are getting extremely frustrated. Striver whatever , the one that starts everything already fled the scene.
> 
> So I have 3 courses of action for you:
> 
> You drop it. We drop it. Then the Indonesian and the Vietnamese could go back to do what they want to without giving a fck about the others. Just like the old days.
> 
> Dying to settle an argument that no longer prove too relevant to each parties? Then make a separate thread, name it "Indonesia vs Vietnam: The Argument That Last Until The Apocalypse" or something like that. As long as you keep the name neutral then it's fine. Afterward, tag me and a couple of Vietnamese members in there and we shall have our showdown.
> 
> You are an ultra D-I-C-K that wan to keep things exactly the way there are? Then simply keep doing what you are doing. It's going to be a test of endurance and hopefully it ends before the Papua rebels achieve independence for their land.
> Your call.
> 
> In the case you go with the D-I-C-K option , feel free to feast your eyes to the below
> 
> 
> 
> Sources, sources, sources, sources annnnnnnnnd sources. Show it to me, mate. "Oh Vietnam kill people in secret like North Korea, no one know about that but me, an Indonesian happen to know about them. I just knew it". That is a rambling of fool that is running out of reason (and possibility sanity). You really test my patient with your imagination. We are talking facts that could be backed by credible sources, not speculations, unfounded analyses and dreams. We are are talking about Vietnam, not North Korea, not China, not any country that you kindly link to us. I . NEED. PROOF. Want me to spell it out? P-R-O-O-F. Not I-M-A-G-I-N-A-T-I-O-N.
> 
> You Indonesian KILL people, you Indonesian TORTURE people and most of all, You Indonesian TREAT minor ethics like TRASH. I could throw tons of article about that but what could you do? Show me article that Vietnam government lock some people up? So far, UN Human Right Commission never charge us with locking minorities into cages with snakes, torturing people and shooting protesters. Understand? You SHOOT people. We DON'T SHOOT people. So is it true that we lack bullet so we could not shoot people? As if anyone the world bite that kind of logic lol.
> 
> Here, use this search phrase: "Diễn tập quân sự Việt Nam". It stand for "Vietnam military exercises". See if we have ever experience lacks of ammunition. Not to mention that most of the videos on the internet come from Vietnam reservists, not front line formations.
> 
> 
> 
> It's called "military secrecy" lol. Is that a new word to the Indonesian? How could the American develop new generation aircraft? Well they pick a large stretch of land, quarantine the place, name it Area 51 and take care of their business there without prying eyes of the public. The same thing happen in Vietnam and as ammunition and soldier shuffle between bases, "millions of dollars worth of material don't just disappear & reappears" indeed occur. But for the Indonesian soldiers that are dying for public attention, I bet they post pictures about their bases and onsite equipment on the Internet day and night, right? That what you make your army SUCKS.
> 
> 
> 
> More claim without backup sources  Sure, Politburo members have a saying in military matters but thing automatically follow already-established work frames in wartime including local defense and overall strategy. The Politburo then only need to win the war. We fought 3 FCKING LONG WARS from the 1945 to 1990 so if our coordination system is too bureaucratic , we would ALL wind up dead a long time ago. For your information, back in the days, we successfully deal with 3 members from the UN Security Council so don't tell us how to wage wars. You Indonesian could barely coordinate you troops smooth enough to kill small-time rebels and you dare claim that you could outsmart us in combat? GET. FCKING. REAL.
> 
> Want proof? How about we go back and analyze the kill ratio again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phu quoc, nhon thraob & the airforce bases in the south will be decimated before the main fleet from cahm ranh arrived. By then it would be too late.
> 
> VPA are untested & untrained in combat. While TNI already have an experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches.



Let's see what we, the poor VPA got in term of air defense and anti ship weapon in our naval and navy bases...

This





This 





This 




This





Annnnnnnnd...this. A CIWS just like your awesome _Millennium_ 






"VPA are untested & untrained in combat. While TNI already have an experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches"

Uhh... you are high on drugs? the VPA already FOUGHT and CAME OUT ON TOP in a series of wars. "Untested & untrained" my A-S-S. Here, use this phrase "Wars that involve Vietnam" and count how many conflict the VPA participated in. 

Once again, we have to come back on thing you Indonesia are afraid to admit: your army SUCKS. 

"experience fighting actual enemy & have more yearly exercises involving thousands of personnel from all branches." What do you mean by "actual enemies"? The Papua? The Aceh? Those are..."actual enemies" to you? you must not mean the Dutch or the Anglo, right? Because that mean the French, the US and the Chinese that had a beef with the VPA in the past are not "actual enemies"? 

Well, I hate to break it to you but: Regardless of what you brag about your "almighty Indonesia army", it's the PERFORMANCE on the field that DECIDE it all. 


You have an ongoing insurrection in your country? Check.
For the last 10 years or so, your country is ravaged by terrorist attacks? Check.
Indonesian rebels in Papua have nothing but terrible weapon but they still manage to waste 3 soldier from the elite Kopassus? Check
In Vietnam, we have none of those. Good enough of a reason for you?[/QUOTE]


So you didn't read the link? 

Quynh was arrested for posting what police described as anti-state reports, including one about civilians dying in police custody
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1MR1B0

Vietnam is ranked bottom 5 in journalist freedom for a reason. Whenever people wanted to report systemic abuses they have a tendency to disappear. The only news that you hear are the one the VCP wanted you to hear. 

Tyranny is a defining characteristic of Vietnam’s communist party and the very reason the party has controlled the country for more than forty years. The arrest of Kim Nga’s husband and the imprisonment and disappearances of other bloggers and activists in recent years represents not a new wave of crackdowns under one particularly harsh president but the status quo relationship between citizens and their government in Vietnam since the communist party took power in the 1970s.
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vietnams-crackdown-dissidents-isnt-new-33081

Vietnam doesn't have the equivalent of area 51 nor does it have the equivalent of lockheed skunkworks. Nice try though & Soldiers still need permission to post sensitive equipments. There's actually a tactical reason for using social media. It helps with public perceptions & morales among other things.





TNI goes from the most hated during the suharto period to the most loved institution after the reformation because of the smart use of social media. 

A good read about the topic of the military use of social media: 
https://socialwebtactics.com/government-social-media/how-the-us-military-uses-instagram/
You don't see the US having any problems of keeping military secrets despite seemingly almost half of their military on instagram. 

Vietnam on the other hand still stuck in a cold war mindset because they are afraid that people going to found out that the emperor have no clothes. The truth is everybody already know that vietnam fudge the numbers when it came to their military to show that they are larger than they actually are. 





This again explain why vietnam can maintain a "large army" despite having a more smaller economy than Philippines or Thailand. It also explain the lack of transparency & why despite this is a military forum there's hardly any military contents. There's just absolutely no way vietnam can maintain that amount of armaments it claimed with the current economic, research & industrial output. Without cutting corners & lying about it. That's just common sense.

The hundreds thousands of dead vietnamese & russian during ww2 might have something else to say about that. Politics is not military. The situation on the ground are completely different than the one on the desk. The soviet systems of central planning are not meant to win war they are meant to keep the communist party in place, winning the war is a secondary concerns. And If central committee planning is so good why did the russian decided to replace it with a more flexible western systems by 2030? Clearly even they see the communist military planning are outdated by today standard. Every vietnamese soldiers whenever they ask for artillery support or reinforcement have to pass it on to the chain of command until they can find someone with the proper authorization. In the west & TNI a squad can order a strike or retreat without needing it to be approved by bureaucrats 1st hand. That's why western army always have less casualties compared to those in the east. Also you guys didn't win alone you got china & the USSR to thank you for that.

Also a fun fact. The TNI spends more on their dog units than the VPA spends on their grunts. 

So does that mean. That Dogs>VPA? 

Most of your air defense are outdated soviet craps. Remember monkey model? That kind of air defense didn't help much in syria now does it. 

Our pilots have clocked in more hours than the VN pilots. I think they can handle it. 

Not to mention we have the more advanced martadina & nagapass class to help out.


----------



## Viva_Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Our pilots have clocked in more hours than the VN pilots. I think they can handle it.
> 
> Not to mention we have the more advanced martadina & nagapass class to help out.


war bween VN-ID will not happen in near future, so the armies will not be used. It'd better to show that u can have a better coast guard ships than VN.

Of course u cant cos ID guard ships r too small, thats why we can arrest ID offiers as easy as kid


----------



## Aqsuperman

Ok my mistake, forget my proposition then  You must be a total dick



Reashot Xigwin said:


> So you didn't read the link?
> 
> Quynh was arrested for posting what police described as anti-state reports, including one about civilians dying in police custody
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1MR1B0
> 
> Vietnam is ranked bottom 5 in journalist freedom for a reason. Whenever people wanted to report systemic abuses they have a tendency to disappear. The only news that you hear are the one the VCP wanted you to hear.
> 
> Tyranny is a defining characteristic of Vietnam’s communist party and the very reason the party has controlled the country for more than forty years. The arrest of Kim Nga’s husband and the imprisonment and disappearances of other bloggers and activists in recent years represents not a new wave of crackdowns under one particularly harsh president but the status quo relationship between citizens and their government in Vietnam since the communist party took power in the 1970s.
> https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vietnams-crackdown-dissidents-isnt-new-33081
> 
> Vietnam doesn't have the equivalent of area 51 nor does it have the equivalent of lockheed skunkworks. Nice try though & Soldiers still need permission to post sensitive equipments. There's actually a tactical reason for using social media. It helps with public perceptions & morales among other things.



I read all of your links but guess what...NO-ONE-DIED-YET.

Once again, your brain fail to take the factor of BLOODSHED into account. You ramble on and on and on about tyranny in Vietnam but have Vietnamese dissidents actually died/got tortured/got shot in real life and not in your pathetic imagination? "Disappearances" ? Guess what: people that go against the government in Indonesia disappear all the time as well and I have their name, places and period. Want to hear them instead of appropriating vague claim you got from a quick google search? You police and military pull all kind of stunt there but guess what Indonesian blood is so cheap that other Indonesian simply don't give a damn.

And no we don't have Area 51 in Vietnam but we use it to so that even monkeys with basic brain could comprehend the phrase "military secrecy". "Tactical reason for using social media"...right... right...as in "The Papua rebels receive training from the US Navy SEAL and have ultra modern rifles. That is the reason why our elite Kopassus got toasted in a firefight against them"



Reashot Xigwin said:


> TNI goes from the most hated during the suharto period to the most loved institution after the reformation because of the smart use of social media



Correction. People still hate your army, you simply fail to notice them  Want to prove my point? Go to Papua and scream "The TNI is the most loved institution in the country". Guess how long does it take for someone to beat you to death for that kind of claim.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Vietnam on the other hand still stuck in a cold war mindset because they are afraid that people going to found out that the emperor have no clothes. The truth is everybody already know that vietnam fudge the numbers when it came to their military to show that they are larger than they actually are.



"everybody already know"? Who know beside you ? Sources, please. Wait. YOU HAVE NONE. Let's check out key points again:

Indonesia is not the world and as if your onion represent the world

You claim that we hold older vehicles in service to make us look bigger? That is funny coming from a country that still hold in service AMX-30, PT-76, BTR-40, BTR-50, Alvis Saladin,...and count everything toward their total amour vehicle. 

I must emphasize something: STOP WITH THE EVERYONE. The world give one fck about Indonesia, ok? You believe that all of your analyses are correct but where are the numbers? The pictures? The collaborations from experts? YOU HAVE NOTHING.
There is a old saying in my country when we deal with lawyers that could not present actual proof in court but keep speculating and waste everyone time: STOP BARKING LIKE A DOG, GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR NOVELIST CAREER. I think that saying suit you perfectly 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> This again explain why vietnam can maintain a "large army" despite having a more smaller economy than Philippines or Thailand. It also explain the lack of transparency & why despite this is a military forum there's hardly any military contents. There's just absolutely no way vietnam can maintain that amount of armaments it claimed with the current economic, research & industrial output. Without cutting corners & lying about it. That's just common sense.



Again, you are SPECULATING. You have "common senses" of an amateur that know nothing about the VPA combat history, let alone present accurate analyses about our combat power. So your opinion mean JACK-S-H-I-T. Indonesian budget for the army? 8.18 billion US dollar in 2017. The Vietnam People Army? 7.8 billion US dollar and that was from 2013. Please, don't assume that our army always perform worse than you as Indonesia is the one that experience troubles with terrorists and rebels, not us. FIELD PERFORMANCE is always the deciding factor while judging the ability of an army. Period.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The hundreds thousands of dead vietnamese & russian during ww2 might have something else to say about that. Politics is not military. The situation on the ground are completely different than the one on the desk. The soviet systems of central planning are not meant to win war they are meant to keep the communist party in place, winning the war is a secondary concerns. And If central committee planning is so good why did the russian decided to replace it with a more flexible western systems by 2030? Clearly even they see the communist military planning are outdated by today standard. Every vietnamese soldiers whenever they ask for artillery support or reinforcement have to pass it on to the chain of command until they can find someone with the proper authorization. In the west & TNI a squad can order a strike or retreat without needing it to be approved by bureaucrats 1st hand. That's why western army always have less casualties compared to those in the east. Also you guys didn't win alone you got china & the USSR to thank you for that.



"If it ain't broke, why fix it?" You guys also died in droves back in the fight against the British and the Dutch, remember? Our system got refined through ACTUAL wars, not hunt for small times rebels. Sure we take experience, supplies and equipment from the Chinese and the Soviet but don't tell you me you Indonesian manage everything without aid from the West in the last century? Because that would be hilarious.

And sure, a brave squad of Indonesian sallies out without having to report to anyone only come back in 3 coffins. Great :b



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also a fun fact. The TNI spends more on their dog units than the VPA spends on their grunts.
> 
> So does that mean. That Dogs>VPA?



Again, no number to compare but hey, more fun fact: VPA, an army that receive less fund than dogs in the TNI manage to keep peace in Vietnam while TNI soldiers fail to do the same in Indonesia. In fact, TNI let their beloved country ravage by terrorists, rebels, pirates,... for decades after decades.

So does that mean: TNI dog>VPA>TNI soldiers. What would you call soldiers that perform worse than someone that receive less fund than dogs? TNI soldiers (including the Kopassus) equal DOG-SHIETS, perhaps?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Most of your air defense are outdated soviet craps. Remember monkey model? That kind of air defense didn't help much in syria now does it.



Sorry to burst your bubble but there are different export variants. T-72s for Iraq are inferior to T-72s for East German. Vietnam is a long time partner of Russia so we get far better stuff than ordinary customers like Indonesia.As if Russia is willing to sell you good stuff when you ask to pay for the purchase with palm oil. PALM. OIL. LOL. You have any plan to trade Indonesian cows for future purchases? Because we have spare cows in our ranches and we could sell them to you for a cheap price.

Moreover, don't tell me your air force is as good as the Israeli when it come to air defense suppression because you guys don't have actual SAM to practice mock attacks. You guys don't even have specialized anti-radiation missiles to targets our radar. AS IF YOUR PLANE COULD SURVIVE PUSHING THROUGH OUR SAM UMBRELLA.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Our pilots have clocked in more hours than the VN pilots. I think they can handle it.



"You think?" No your opinion is TRASH. In war, we talk about real capability, you don't "think". You have no SAM. you have no anti ship missile. You have no experience in air defense suppression.

Conclusion: YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE OF WINNING OVER OUR BASES, either airbase or navy base.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Not to mention we have the more advanced martadina & nagapass class to help out.



Good, an aerial slaughter require some audience after all. After we finish with your jets, maybe we would feel kind enough to let the Indonesian Navy fish the wet, dejected and crumbling Indonesian pilots our of the water. However, we might feel a bit evil and promptly finish everything through a salvo of anti ship missiles. Afterward, we shall ransom their rotten bodies back to Jakarta and get more money to get more stuff to kill more Indonesian in the future. The war would go on until the Papua overthrow your government, sign us a peace treaty and the Vietnamese go home happy and our pockets filled with cash.


----------



## warzone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Let's see what we, the poor VPA got in term of air defense and anti ship weapon in our naval and navy bases...
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annnnnnnnd...this. A CIWS just like your awesome _Millennium_



Yo Smarty @Reashot Xigwin You still didn't answer my questions about those ratios,... What are the worse ratios : the Iraqi war 1991 with 300 coalition soldiers killed vs 25-50 000 Iraqi soldiers killed or Iraqi 2003 war with 200 US soldiers killed vs 10-45 000 killed or the Viet Nam war ratio ? LOL


----------



## Aqsuperman

Viva_Viet said:


> war bween VN-ID will not happen in near future, so the armies will not be used. It'd better to show that u can have a better coast guard ships than VN.
> 
> Of course u cant cos ID guard ships r too small, thats why we can arrest ID offiers as easy as kid



The dick want war talk and he shall have his war talk. I'm going to teach this motherfcker not to overstay his welcome in our thread.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## warzone

Aqsuperman said:


> The dick want war talk and he shall have his war talk. I'm going to teach this motherfcker not to overstay his welcome in our thread.


haha let him talk, talk is cheap... He believe so much his army just like those PLA lovers, they believe money and training can buy combat experience and teaching a nation to accept huge human losses and misery.


----------



## Aqsuperman

warzone said:


> Yo Smarty @Reashot Xigwin You still didn't answer my questions about those ratios,... What are the worse ratios : the Iraqi war 1991 with 300 coalition soldiers killed vs 25-50 000 Iraqi soldiers killed or Iraqi 2003 war with 200 US soldiers killed vs 10-45 000 killed or the Viet Nam war ratio ? LOL



To him, Indonesian National Revolution has the best kill ration of all 
45,000 to 100,000 dead Indo to around 7,300 dead Dutch + Brit. A ratio between 6 : 1 and 13 : 1. Awesome kill ratio for the Indo. Kudos to he Indonesian Army for dying like that.


----------



## warzone

Aqsuperman said:


> To him, Indonesian National Revolution has the best kill ration of all
> 45,000 to 100,000 dead Indo to around 7,300 dead Dutch + Brit. A ratio between 6 : 1 and 13 : 1. Awesome kill ratio for the Indo. Kudos to he Indonesian Army for dying like that.


The Dutch is a small army with limited air power and limited resources but still manage to do huge damage... You like your ratio 1 vs 13 el smarty @Reashot Xigwin
Imagine Indo Military VS US army with their air power and all their firepower (arty, navy, ect), it will be 50 indo deads vs 1 US dead, 100 VS 1? LOL

And the Indo army are only willing fight when they outnumber their opponents by 10 to 30, bravely is the motto of Indo army so we will never see that happen...LOL


----------



## Viva_Viet

warzone said:


> The Dutch is a small army with limited air power and limited resources but still manage to do huge damage... You like your ratio 1 vs 13 el smarty @Reashot Xigwin
> Imagine Indo Military VS US army with their air power and all their firepower (arty, navy, ect), it will be 50 indo deads vs 1 US dead, 100 VS 1? LOL
> 
> And the Indo army are only willing fight when they outnumber their opponents by 10 to 30, bravely is the motto of Indo army so we will never see that happen...LOL


They should feel happy cos there is a big sea bween VN-ID. If we share land border, then ID would be just like another Pol Pot and lost all water to VN

Actually ID is losing the disputed water to VN now as they guard ships simply cant Guard


----------



## Viet

Ok there are other news. A year has passed since the medics were sent to South Sudan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Aqsuperman

More Sukhoi of the Vietnam People Air Force return from oversea after receiving upgrades.


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Ok my mistake, forget my proposition then  You must be a total dick
> 
> 
> 
> I read all of your links but guess what...NO-ONE-DIED-YET.
> 
> Once again, your brain fail to take the factor of BLOODSHED into account. You ramble on and on and on about tyranny in Vietnam but have Vietnamese dissidents actually died/got tortured/got shot in real life and not in your pathetic imagination? "Disappearances" ? Guess what: people that go against the government in Indonesia disappear all the time as well and I have their name, places and period. Want to hear them instead of appropriating vague claim you got from a quick google search? You police and military pull all kind of stunt there but guess what Indonesian blood is so cheap that other Indonesian simply don't give a damn.
> 
> And no we don't have Area 51 in Vietnam but we use it to so that even monkeys with basic brain could comprehend the phrase "military secrecy". "Tactical reason for using social media"...right... right...as in "The Papua rebels receive training from the US Navy SEAL and have ultra modern rifles. That is the reason why our elite Kopassus got toasted in a firefight against them"
> 
> 
> 
> Correction. People still hate your army, you simply fail to notice them  Want to prove my point? Go to Papua and scream "The TNI is the most loved institution in the country". Guess how long does it take for someone to beat you to death for that kind of claim.
> 
> 
> 
> "everybody already know"? Who know beside you ? Sources, please. Wait. YOU HAVE NONE. Let's check out key points again:
> 
> Indonesia is not the world and as if your onion represent the world
> 
> You claim that we hold older vehicles in service to make us look bigger? That is funny coming from a country that still hold in service AMX-30, PT-76, BTR-40, BTR-50, Alvis Saladin,...and count everything toward their total amour vehicle.
> 
> I must emphasize something: STOP WITH THE EVERYONE. The world give one fck about Indonesia, ok? You believe that all of your analyses are correct but where are the numbers? The pictures? The collaborations from experts? YOU HAVE NOTHING.
> There is a old saying in my country when we deal with lawyers that could not present actual proof in court but keep speculating and waste everyone time: STOP BARKING LIKE A DOG, GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE AND MOVE ON WITH YOUR NOVELIST CAREER. I think that saying suit you perfectly
> 
> 
> 
> Again, you are SPECULATING. You have "common senses" of an amateur that know nothing about the VPA combat history, let alone present accurate analyses about our combat power. So your opinion mean JACK-S-H-I-T. Indonesian budget for the army? 8.18 billion US dollar in 2017. The Vietnam People Army? 7.8 billion US dollar and that was from 2013. Please, don't assume that our army always perform worse than you as Indonesia is the one that experience troubles with terrorists and rebels, not us. FIELD PERFORMANCE is always the deciding factor while judging the ability of an army. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" You guys also died in droves back in the fight against the British and the Dutch, remember? Our system got refined through ACTUAL wars, not hunt for small times rebels. Sure we take experience, supplies and equipment from the Chinese and the Soviet but don't tell you me you Indonesian manage everything without aid from the West in the last century? Because that would be hilarious.
> 
> And sure, a brave squad of Indonesian sallies out without having to report to anyone only come back in 3 coffins. Great :b
> 
> 
> 
> Again, no number to compare but hey, more fun fact: VPA, an army that receive less fund than dogs in the TNI manage to keep peace in Vietnam while TNI soldiers fail to do the same in Indonesia. In fact, TNI let their beloved country ravage by terrorists, rebels, pirates,... for decades after decades.
> 
> So does that mean: TNI dog>VPA>TNI soldiers. What would you call soldiers that perform worse than someone that receive less fund than dogs? TNI soldiers (including the Kopassus) equal DOG-SHIETS, perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to burst your bubble but there are different export variants. T-72s for Iraq are inferior to T-72s for East German. Vietnam is a long time partner of Russia so we get far better stuff than ordinary customers like Indonesia.As if Russia is willing to sell you good stuff when you ask to pay for the purchase with palm oil. PALM. OIL. LOL. You have any plan to trade Indonesian cows for future purchases? Because we have spare cows in our ranches and we could sell them to you for a cheap price.
> 
> Moreover, don't tell me your air force is as good as the Israeli when it come to air defense suppression because you guys don't have actual SAM to practice mock attacks. You guys don't even have specialized anti-radiation missiles to targets our radar. AS IF YOUR PLANE COULD SURVIVE PUSHING THROUGH OUR SAM UMBRELLA.
> 
> 
> 
> "You think?" No your opinion is TRASH. In war, we talk about real capability, you don't "think". You have no SAM. you have no anti ship missile. You have no experience in air defense suppression.
> 
> Conclusion: YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE OF WINNING OVER OUR BASES, either airbase or navy base.
> 
> 
> 
> Good, an aerial slaughter require some audience after all. After we finish with your jets, maybe we would feel kind enough to let the Indonesian Navy fish the wet, dejected and crumbling Indonesian pilots our of the water. However, we might feel a bit evil and promptly finish everything through a salvo of anti ship missiles. Afterward, we shall ransom their rotten bodies back to Jakarta and get more money to get more stuff to kill more Indonesian in the future. The war would go on until the Papua overthrow your government, sign us a peace treaty and the Vietnamese go home happy and our pockets filled with cash.



I guess the part of PRISONERS DYING ON YOUR GOVERNMENT WATCH is not considered death. Meaning they have been tortured or neglected. Indonesia went through democratic reformation relatively bloodless. 

Arresting someone without due causes for suspicisson to do harm to people or the state is a right all nations have. Vietnam however abused that right by arresting human rights advocates & bloggers by the hundreds & abusing them in prison. 

I will give you links to HRW. A reputable sources if you can't trust an organization dedicated on human rights than its your problem not mine:

Nguyen Danh Dung, a blogger, has been forcibly disappeared since his arrest in December 2016. A former political prisoner and high-profile blogger, Truong Duy Nhat, who fled to Bangkok to seek asylum in mid-January mysteriously disappeared in Thailand on January 26 and has not been heard from since. His disappearance evokes the case of a former oil company executive and asylum seeker, Trinh Xuan Thanh, who was kidnapped by Vietnamese government officials in Germany and forcibly returned to Vietnam in July 2017.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/03/04/eu-press-vietnam-rights-record

At the UPR session, Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister Le Hoai Trung claimed that Vietnam ensures for everyone “the right to be treated equally before the law” and access to defense counsel. Instead, the criminal justice system is an arm of state oppression, with limited access to lawyers and unfair trials. Defense lawyers have inadequate time to prepare for politically motivated trials and to present their cases in court. Most trials for national security offenses last less than a day, and some are over in two hours.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/02/01/vietnam-hanoi-misleads-un-rights-record

This is just the political prisoner.
https://www.hrw.org/tag/vietnam-political-prisoners

BTW I notice you no longer said your country are better at human right than mine. So I take it I finally convinced you? 

Depends on which part of papua. Other half hate us, other half love us. The situation in papua is a lot more complex & that will take too much time to explain the nuances of the issue.

This came from a person (I assume. Or am I speculating here too without evidence?) that speculate the VCP never arrested someone for singing or torture. Despite overwhelming evidence from numerous right groups. How is it right for you to speculate, but I can't? The hypocrisy is strong with you & when was the last time the VPA have any field performance? Speaking of military history: 

https://id.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operasi_Pembebasan_Sandera_Mapenduma

Long story short a joint operation between police & military in the highland of papua managed to save 25 researchers, teachers & medic. And freed villages of around a thousand people from the OPM.

Of this type of "field performance there's more. They just don't have it in english.

& If you talking about exercises then yes we have more than yours, in far larger scale & complexity.

Just search youtube tni natuna 2018 exercise if the video doesn't work.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov&cshid=1552756131857

"Minulyo informed that substance of the exercise includes decision making, preparation and training, and commanding military campaigns and joint operations.

The exercise will also include training on several operations, such as air surveillance operations, tactical intelligence, special force operations, air support, air force base takeovers, joint naval operations, amphibious operations, air travel, administrative landing, territorial and joint land operations"

Vietnam doesn't have this type of exercise in this scale. TNI roles are more complex than the VPA. Given that our budget are far more minuscule than yours. The TNI level of professionalism are quite good actually.

Our old junks can actually still be used. Vietnamese junks are just there to pad the numbers & some are not in working orders to maintain appearance because of communism or whatever reasons. Learn the difference.

Russia or in this case the soviets have been trading commodities for weapons for years & you're supposed to be their "ally" in the region. 

You know a quick wiki search at TNI should tell you we have sams & ashm. I've been studying the VPA for years (how do you think I know which tank rounds you guys will be getting & how vietnam isn't being honest about their record keeping.) the least u can do is google it. Or did they ban it in your country? 

Guess which country rank below us? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index


----------



## Aqsuperman

You are fcking pathetic, you know that? Well, let shiet hit the fan once more time



Reashot Xigwin said:


> I guess the part of PRISONERS DYING ON YOUR GOVERNMENT WATCH is not considered death. Meaning they have been tortured or neglected. Indonesia went through democratic reformation relatively bloodless.
> 
> Arresting someone without due causes for suspicisson to do harm to people or the state is a right all nations have. Vietnam however abused that right by arresting human rights advocates & bloggers by the hundreds & abusing them in prison.
> 
> I will give you links to HRW. A reputable sources if you can't trust an organization dedicated on human rights than its your problem not mine:
> 
> Nguyen Danh Dung, a blogger, has been forcibly disappeared since his arrest in December 2016. A former political prisoner and high-profile blogger, Truong Duy Nhat, who fled to Bangkok to seek asylum in mid-January mysteriously disappeared in Thailand on January 26 and has not been heard from since. His disappearance evokes the case of a former oil company executive and asylum seeker, Trinh Xuan Thanh, who was kidnapped by Vietnamese government officials in Germany and forcibly returned to Vietnam in July 2017.
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/03/04/eu-press-vietnam-rights-record
> 
> At the UPR session, Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister Le Hoai Trung claimed that Vietnam ensures for everyone “the right to be treated equally before the law” and access to defense counsel. Instead, the criminal justice system is an arm of state oppression, with limited access to lawyers and unfair trials. Defense lawyers have inadequate time to prepare for politically motivated trials and to present their cases in court. Most trials for national security offenses last less than a day, and some are over in two hours.
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/02/01/vietnam-hanoi-misleads-un-rights-record
> 
> This is just the political prisoner.
> https://www.hrw.org/tag/vietnam-political-prisoners
> 
> BTW I notice you no longer said your country are better at human right than mine. So I take it I finally convinced you?
> 
> Depends on which part of papua. Other half hate us, other half love us. The situation in papua is a lot more complex & that will take too much time.
> 
> This came from a person (I assume. Or am I speculating here too without evidence?) that speculate the VCP never arrested someone for singing or torture. Despite overwhelming evidence from numerous right groups. How is it right for you to speculate, but I can't? The hypocrisy is strong with you & when was the last time the VPA have any field performance? Speaking of military history:



THE WORD. MY FRIEND. THE WORD. All I see are "disappearance" cases, not "dead", "die", "dying".... in all of the sources you posted. Before, I intentionally avoided sources that talk about "disappearance of dissidents" in Indonesia as i felt they were too vague. Could they simply hide somewhere? Is there a chance they might be held in Indonesian prisons? But if you claim that "disappearance" automatically mean death then I'm more than willing to toss you 1,001 articles that talk about such cases in Indonesia. I take that such people all dead then?

For the fcking last time, get it memorize: Human right situation in Vietanm is WAY better than Indonesia. Name me 1 "dissident" from Vietnam that ACTUALLY wind up DEAD and I would agree with with whatever bullshiet you speak of next. "Disappearance" is not going to cut it. But if you implies that "disappearance" equal death then I could come to the conclusion that FAR MORE people in Indonesia ended up in a body bag than I anticipated, excluding the number of people that already got shot to dead on the street.

Btw, which half of people in Papua love you guys? The half that contains Indonesian that come from the central government and their Papuan lackeys or the half with ordinary Papuan that simply with for independence? You have annexed the place for more than 3 decades, such a division indicate poor efforts in reconciling the region. That mean SUCK A-S-S performance from the TNI again.

"A joint operation between police & military in the highland of papua managed to save 25 researchers, teachers & medic. And freed villages of around a thousand people from the OPM"

Uhm..That's it? A rescue operation? That is the only proof that prove your military is of quality? VPA officers would laugh at that as it nothing near the complex of operations they mounted in Cambodia and Thailand borders. 

You see: Field performance is judged through effectiveness. In counter terrorist, your success is decided by how you effectively neutralize all terrorists. To simplify things for you, imagine that you house if full with rats. You could kill hundreds of them but more are popping up every day. Want to prove that you good at killing rats? Then you must kill them all, plain and simple. 

Your claim that your army is superb when it comes to field performance? Then why for the last 2 decades, Indonesia is ravaged by terrorists attacks and rebels? Is it the job of the TNI to keep their citizen safe? How long does it take until the killing end? 3 million-dollar questions for you and you almighty army there. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Just search youtube tni natuna 2018 exercise if the video doesn't work.
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov&cshid=1552756131857
> 
> "Minulyo informed that substance of the exercise includes decision making, preparation and training, and commanding military campaigns and joint operations.
> 
> The exercise will also include training on several operations, such as air surveillance operations, tactical intelligence, special force operations, air support, air force base takeovers, joint naval operations, amphibious operations, air travel, administrative landing, territorial and joint land operations"
> 
> Vietnam doesn't have this type of exercise in this scale. TNI roles are more complex than the VPA. Given that our budget are far more minuscule than yours. The TNI level of professionalism are quite good actually.



Yeah, big words there. Sadly, we have done the same since the 1970s . But guess what, we have fcking LOAD of experience compared to the Indonesian regarding combine arm operations, coordination between brands of service,... Proof? We manage to pacify Khmer Rouge, destroy their bases in Thailand and defense of our northern border against a rather "unstable neighbor". What Indonesians have to brag about the military history of their army? Yea, NOTHING. Except the kill ratio of 13 : 1 which is actually hilarious from my view

And please, your military budget is only exceed us by 13.5 %. As if that is enough to surpass the ACTUAL difference in military experience.

"Professionalism"? Professional enough to shoot at unarmed protesters then?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Our old junks can actually still be used. Vietnamese junks are just there to pad the numbers & some are not in working orders to maintain appearance because of communism or whatever reasons. Learn the difference.



Again. NO. FCKING. SOURCE. Your junks look like they are about to fall apart, especially the BTRs. You keep them around to brag that you have a huge number of operational vehicle. Period. Name one thing that the VPA field that no longer movable. T-34, Su-100, ASU-85,... Stuff like that roll around just fine but if you look at Wikipedia, Global Firepower and sources like that, they don't include such vehicles and we are fine by that.

"Or whatever reason"?...The vagueness in your claims just reach a whole new level with that phrase...



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Russia or in this case the soviets have been trading commodities for weapons for years & you're supposed to be their "ally" in the region.



Yes, Vietnam is an ally that either pay cash or take credit from foreign banks to finance arm purchases. We don't beg Russia, Israel, Belarus, South Korea,... to take palm oil for weapon. I mean if it's crude oil then I guess that could pass but palm oil. FCKING. PALM. OIL. SERIOUSLY? What next? Cow? Sheep? Pig? What the hell is that kind of barter system?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> You know a quick wiki search at TNI should tell you we have sams & ashm



Already done that. In fact, I even spent time to google translate to look for sources in Indonesian in case there are some new developments.

The result? NOTHING. You guys have Man portable surface to air misses plus 1 single mobile missile system (Rapier, NASAMS 2 and TD-2000B) plus auto cannon in term of air defense. Those are hardly suffice in a war with VPAF which is armed to the the teeth with long range air to surface missiles as well as anti-radiation missiles and ECM pods. Your anti ship category fare better but the number is minimal to make an impact. The situation is already grave if you are on the defensive but to attack first? Let's see:

No anti-radiation missiles

No bunker-buster ammunition 

No specialized ECM pod for air suppression duty

Yeah, your chance to successfully attack our airbase and navy base is comparable to the chance that you might become an expert analysis of military affair employed by the Indonesian government.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> I've been studying the VPA for years (how do you think I know which tank rounds you guys will be getting & how vietnam isn't being honest about their record keeping.)



I HIGHLY doubt that claim. Time and again, you come up with various error that prove you know NOTHING about Vietnam, let alone an expert about the Vietnam People Army. Which tank rounds we will receive? Please, those thing are all over the Internet and believe me once I say those are merely SPECULATIONS.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> the least u can do is google it. Or did they ban it in your country?



I believe this is the third time you Indonesian come up with that kind of stupid A-S-S question. Solid proof that you know nothing about us, Mr. Expert.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Guess which country rank below us?
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index



Oh you want go with that, how about this:
Vietnam.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/vietnam/terrorism
Although there’s little history of terrorism in Vietnam, attacks can’t be ruled out. You should be aware of the global risk of indiscriminate terrorist attacks which could be in public areas, including those visited by foreigners.

There’s a heightened threat of terrorist attack globally against UK interests and British nationals, from groups or individuals motivated by the conflict in Iraq and Syria. You should be vigilant at this time.

Indonesia
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/indonesia/terrorism
Terrorists are very likely to try to carry out attacks in Indonesia. Terrorist groups have the capacity and intent to carry out attacks at anytime and anywhere in the country. Types of attacks have included suicide bombings and small-arms fire, targeting public and crowded places.

The threat from Islamist extremism remains high, though the Indonesian authorities continue to disrupt attack planning, including arresting alleged terrorists reportedly in the advanced stages of preparation.

On 14 May 2018 there was an explosion at a security post of police headquarters in Surabaya, causing a number of deaths and casualties.

On 13 May 2018 there were explosions at three churches in Surabaya in East Java causing a number of deaths and casualties.

On 24 May 2017 there were bomb explosions at the Kampung Melayu bus station in east Jakarta. Three police officers were killed.

On 14 January 2016 a terrorist attack took place near the Sari Pan Pacific Hotel and Sarinah Plaza on Jalan M.H. Thamrin in central Jakarta. The attack included a number of explosions and gun battles. Eight people died and a number were injured, including foreigners.

Small-scale attacks occur on a regular basis and further incidents are likely. Attacks could be indiscriminate, including in places frequented by foreigners. Beach resorts, bars and restaurants, hotels, markets, shopping malls hosting major international brand outlets, tourist attractions, places of worship, foreign embassies, polling stations, ferry terminals and airports are all potential targets. Indonesian government, law enforcement interests and places of worship are regularly targeted by extremists. Western interests are also at risk.

Be vigilant and take care at all times. You should regularly review your security arrangements and be particularly vigilant during holiday periods including the Christmas and New Year period, Chinese New Year, Nyepi (Balinese New Year), Easter, Ramadan, local elections and Independence Day (17 August) which can be a time of heightened tension and increased risk.

There is a risk of kidnapping at sea in and around the waters of Indonesia. This risk is higher in the Sulu and Celebes seas.

The long-standing policy of the British government is not to make substantive concessions to hostage takers. The British government considers that paying ransoms and releasing prisoners increases the risk of further hostage taking.

There is considered to be a heightened threat of terrorist attack globally against UK interests and British nationals, from groups or individuals motivated by the conflict in Iraq and Syria. You should be vigilant at this time.

It seems that your report regarding terrorist risk is a WEE BIT LONGER than us in the eyes of the Brit, eh?

Btw, I find something hilarious, I want to share it to you.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-i...battlegrounds-as-elections-loom-idUKKBN1QU0AQ

"Almost every day, “Janda”, a self-described Indonesian housewife with 2,000 Twitter followers, dispenses lifestyle tips, complains about city life, and praises how the government of President Joko Widodo has improved her life as a young mother."

"But Janda the housewife does not exist. The Twitter account’s real owner is an unmarried middle-aged man who offers political social media services backing Widodo’s re-election campaign."

"“Our battleground is social media. The content we are making for the election is reaching at least a million people per week,” said the owner of the Janda account, declining to be named because his work is legally in a grey area."

"Three buzzers directly involved in the current campaign described how they operate hundreds of personalized social media accounts each on behalf of the candidates. One denied propagating fake news, while two said they didn’t care about the accuracy of the content."

"On a recent afternoon in Jakarta, one buzzer team leader scrolled through two mobile phones that had over 250 Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, YouTube and Twitter accounts, each with a fake persona. He updated five of them with posts praising Widodo’s achievements or mocking Prabowo and his running mate"

Well....I guess that is a good way to earn money from politician. You could hook me up to that? I'm VERY good at picking up dirt in people profile.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Aqsuperman

Vietnam Physician Day in South Sudan

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viet

May have already been posted 

an interesting picture of Vietnam integrated air defense







R60 air to air missiles






7 Su30 line up for take off to a patrol

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> You are fcking pathetic, you know that? Well, let shiet hit the fan once more time
> 
> 
> 
> THE WORD. MY FRIEND. THE WORD. All I see are "disappearance" cases, not "dead", "die", "dying".... in all of the sources you posted. Before, I intentionally avoided sources that talk about "disappearance of dissidents" in Indonesia as i felt they were too vague. Could they simply hide somewhere? Is there a chance they might be held in Indonesian prisons? But if you claim that "disappearance" automatically mean death then I'm more than willing to toss you 1,001 articles that talk about such cases in Indonesia. I take that such people all dead then?
> 
> For the fcking last time, get it memorize: Human right situation in Vietanm is WAY better than Indonesia. Name me 1 "dissident" from Vietnam that ACTUALLY wind up DEAD and I would agree with with whatever bullshiet you speak of next. "Disappearance" is not going to cut it. But if you implies that "disappearance" equal death then I could come to the conclusion that FAR MORE people in Indonesia ended up in a body bag than I anticipated, excluding the number of people that already got shot to dead on the street.
> 
> Btw, which half of people in Papua love you guys? The half that contains Indonesian that come from the central government and their Papuan lackeys or the half with ordinary Papuan that simply with for independence? You have annexed the place for more than 3 decades, such a division indicate poor efforts in reconciling the region. That mean SUCK A-S-S performance from the TNI again.
> 
> "A joint operation between police & military in the highland of papua managed to save 25 researchers, teachers & medic. And freed villages of around a thousand people from the OPM"
> 
> Uhm..That's it? A rescue operation? That is the only proof that prove your military is of quality? VPA officers would laugh at that as it nothing near the complex of operations they mounted in Cambodia and Thailand borders.
> 
> You see: Field performance is judged through effectiveness. In counter terrorist, your success is decided by how you effectively neutralize all terrorists. To simplify things for you, imagine that you house if full with rats. You could kill hundreds of them but more are popping up every day. Want to prove that you good at killing rats? Then you must kill them all, plain and simple.
> 
> Your claim that your army is superb when it comes to field performance? Then why for the last 2 decades, Indonesia is ravaged by terrorists attacks and rebels? Is it the job of the TNI to keep their citizen safe? How long does it take until the killing end? 3 million-dollar questions for you and you almighty army there.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, big words there. Sadly, we have done the same since the 1970s . But guess what, we have fcking LOAD of experience compared to the Indonesian regarding combine arm operations, coordination between brands of service,... Proof? We manage to pacify Khmer Rouge, destroy their bases in Thailand and defense of our northern border against a rather "unstable neighbor". What Indonesians have to brag about the military history of their army? Yea, NOTHING. Except the kill ratio of 13 : 1 which is actually hilarious from my view
> 
> And please, your military budget is only exceed us by 13.5 %. As if that is enough to surpass the ACTUAL difference in military experience.
> 
> "Professionalism"? Professional enough to shoot at unarmed protesters then?
> 
> 
> 
> Again. NO. FCKING. SOURCE. Your junks look like they are about to fall apart, especially the BTRs. You keep them around to brag that you have a huge number of operational vehicle. Period. Name one thing that the VPA field that no longer movable. T-34, Su-100, ASU-85,... Stuff like that roll around just fine but if you look at Wikipedia, Global Firepower and sources like that, they don't include such vehicles and we are fine by that.
> 
> "Or whatever reason"?...The vagueness in your claims just reach a whole new level with that phrase...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Vietnam is an ally that either pay cash or take credit from foreign banks to finance arm purchases. We don't beg Russia, Israel, Belarus, South Korea,... to take palm oil for weapon. I mean if it's crude oil then I guess that could pass but palm oil. FCKING. PALM. OIL. SERIOUSLY? What next? Cow? Sheep? Pig? What the hell is that kind of barter system?
> 
> 
> 
> Already done that. In fact, I even spent time to google translate to look for sources in Indonesian in case there are some new developments.
> 
> The result? NOTHING. You guys have Man portable surface to air misses plus 1 single mobile missile system (Rapier, NASAMS 2 and TD-2000B) plus auto cannon in term of air defense. Those are hardly suffice in a war with VPAF which is armed to the the teeth with long range air to surface missiles as well as anti-radiation missiles and ECM pods. Your anti ship category fare better but the number is minimal to make an impact. The situation is already grave if you are on the defensive but to attack first? Let's see:
> 
> No anti-radiation missiles
> 
> No bunker-buster ammunition
> 
> No specialized ECM pod for air suppression duty
> 
> Yeah, your chance to successfully attack our airbase and navy base is comparable to the chance that you might become an expert analysis of military affair employed by the Indonesian government.
> 
> 
> 
> I HIGHLY doubt that claim. Time and again, you come up with various error that prove you know NOTHING about Vietnam, let alone an expert about the Vietnam People Army. Which tank rounds we will receive? Please, those thing are all over the Internet and believe me once I say those are merely SPECULATIONS.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe this is the third time you Indonesian come up with that kind of stupid A-S-S question. Solid proof that you know nothing about us, Mr. Expert.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you want go with that, how about this:
> Vietnam.
> https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/vietnam/terrorism
> Although there’s little history of terrorism in Vietnam, attacks can’t be ruled out. You should be aware of the global risk of indiscriminate terrorist attacks which could be in public areas, including those visited by foreigners.
> 
> There’s a heightened threat of terrorist attack globally against UK interests and British nationals, from groups or individuals motivated by the conflict in Iraq and Syria. You should be vigilant at this time.
> 
> Indonesia
> https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/indonesia/terrorism
> Terrorists are very likely to try to carry out attacks in Indonesia. Terrorist groups have the capacity and intent to carry out attacks at anytime and anywhere in the country. Types of attacks have included suicide bombings and small-arms fire, targeting public and crowded places.
> 
> The threat from Islamist extremism remains high, though the Indonesian authorities continue to disrupt attack planning, including arresting alleged terrorists reportedly in the advanced stages of preparation.
> 
> On 14 May 2018 there was an explosion at a security post of police headquarters in Surabaya, causing a number of deaths and casualties.
> 
> On 13 May 2018 there were explosions at three churches in Surabaya in East Java causing a number of deaths and casualties.
> 
> On 24 May 2017 there were bomb explosions at the Kampung Melayu bus station in east Jakarta. Three police officers were killed.
> 
> On 14 January 2016 a terrorist attack took place near the Sari Pan Pacific Hotel and Sarinah Plaza on Jalan M.H. Thamrin in central Jakarta. The attack included a number of explosions and gun battles. Eight people died and a number were injured, including foreigners.
> 
> Small-scale attacks occur on a regular basis and further incidents are likely. Attacks could be indiscriminate, including in places frequented by foreigners. Beach resorts, bars and restaurants, hotels, markets, shopping malls hosting major international brand outlets, tourist attractions, places of worship, foreign embassies, polling stations, ferry terminals and airports are all potential targets. Indonesian government, law enforcement interests and places of worship are regularly targeted by extremists. Western interests are also at risk.
> 
> Be vigilant and take care at all times. You should regularly review your security arrangements and be particularly vigilant during holiday periods including the Christmas and New Year period, Chinese New Year, Nyepi (Balinese New Year), Easter, Ramadan, local elections and Independence Day (17 August) which can be a time of heightened tension and increased risk.
> 
> There is a risk of kidnapping at sea in and around the waters of Indonesia. This risk is higher in the Sulu and Celebes seas.
> 
> The long-standing policy of the British government is not to make substantive concessions to hostage takers. The British government considers that paying ransoms and releasing prisoners increases the risk of further hostage taking.
> 
> There is considered to be a heightened threat of terrorist attack globally against UK interests and British nationals, from groups or individuals motivated by the conflict in Iraq and Syria. You should be vigilant at this time.
> 
> It seems that your report regarding terrorist risk is a WEE BIT LONGER than us in the eyes of the Brit, eh?
> 
> Btw, I find something hilarious, I want to share it to you.
> https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-i...battlegrounds-as-elections-loom-idUKKBN1QU0AQ
> 
> "Almost every day, “Janda”, a self-described Indonesian housewife with 2,000 Twitter followers, dispenses lifestyle tips, complains about city life, and praises how the government of President Joko Widodo has improved her life as a young mother."
> 
> "But Janda the housewife does not exist. The Twitter account’s real owner is an unmarried middle-aged man who offers political social media services backing Widodo’s re-election campaign."
> 
> "“Our battleground is social media. The content we are making for the election is reaching at least a million people per week,” said the owner of the Janda account, declining to be named because his work is legally in a grey area."
> 
> "Three buzzers directly involved in the current campaign described how they operate hundreds of personalized social media accounts each on behalf of the candidates. One denied propagating fake news, while two said they didn’t care about the accuracy of the content."
> 
> "On a recent afternoon in Jakarta, one buzzer team leader scrolled through two mobile phones that had over 250 Facebook, Instagram, Whatsapp, YouTube and Twitter accounts, each with a fake persona. He updated five of them with posts praising Widodo’s achievements or mocking Prabowo and his running mate"
> 
> Well....I guess that is a good way to earn money from politician. You could hook me up to that? I'm VERY good at picking up dirt in people profile.



Once again its your problem if you can't trust hrw or the unhcr or even your own citizens for that matters. 

Really your country won't let you vote or protest & that's better how again? If you willing to trade freedom for security you deserves neither. This is why I never understand the viet slave mentality. No indonesian would want their country to be like vietnam, but vietnamese would want vietnam to be democratic.

How many time should I tell you. Your jungle is nothing compared to papuan jungle. It's a an air lift operation, a high altitude rescue in the most inhospitable jungle involving 2 branches & hundreds of personnel where everything can go wrong. There's no vietnamese equivalent & the last operations you have were in the 1970s meanwhile all indonesian operations haven't be declassified yet.

Speaking of counter terrorism we have the best CTU in the region. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...force-has-become-a-model-for-the-region-97368

I swear you just keep getting dumber & dumber. If TNI wanted to kill all the "rats" it would have done so already. The same reason why there's still a vietnam is because the US doesn't want to exterminate all of you. TNI mission in the region is to assist the local governor & maintain order in nduga. That's it.

The VPA budget is to maintain its large standing army & hardware. The Indonesian army is to maintain a small but effective force. We paid, trained, fed & equipped our soldiers better than yours. VPA is an army composed mostly of peasants there's not single shred of professionalism in any of their soldiers.

Most of your aad are concentrated up north, this is however not the case in the south where there are less aad to handle. The S300 is not going to change anything Contrary to popular belief aad are actually not that hard to avoid especially a russian made one. Cause they were not made to make a sharp maneuver like the patriot missiles. 

Sharp turn maneuver, countermeasure from flares to chaff, ECW the indonesian f-16s can be equipped with a pod & I think there's more. Remember we have better pilots & better planes than yours.

We don't need to inflict a devastating blows or a bloody nose attack just enough to make sure vietnam disappeared from the natuna sea & sues for peace.

Vietnam being given mango is already god given. If Russia doesn't even give their REAL ally india their best rounds what hope you can possibly have? Also politically speaking giving vietnam a tank round that can actually harm china newer tank is a no brainer. This is just a simple process of elimination.


----------



## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Once again its your problem if you can't trust hrw or the unhcr or even your own citizens for that matters.
> 
> Really your country won't let you vote or protest & that's better how again? If you willing to trade freedom for security you deserves neither. This is why I never understand the viet slave mentality. No indonesian would want their country to be like vietnam, but vietnamese would want vietnam to be democratic.
> 
> How many time should I tell you. Your jungle is nothing compared to papuan jungle. It's a an air lift operation, a high altitude rescue in the most inhospitable jungle involving 2 branches & hundreds of personnel where everything can go wrong. There's no vietnamese equivalent & the last operations you have were in the 1970s meanwhile all indonesian operations haven't be declassified yet.
> 
> Speaking of counter terrorism we have the best CTU in the region. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...force-has-become-a-model-for-the-region-97368
> 
> I swear you just keep getting dumber & dumber. If TNI wanted to kill all the "rats" it would have done so already. The same reason why there's still a vietnam is because the US doesn't want to exterminate all of you. TNI mission in the region is to assist the local governor & maintain order in nduga. That's it.
> 
> The VPA budget is to maintain its large standing army & hardware. The Indonesian army is to maintain a small but effective force. We paid, trained, fed & equipped our soldiers better than yours. VPA is an army composed mostly of peasants there's not single shred of professionalism in any of their soldiers.
> 
> Most of your aad are concentrated up north, this is however not the case in the south where there are less aad to handle. The S300 is not going to change anything Contrary to popular belief aad are actually not that hard to avoid especially a russian made one. Cause they were not made to make a sharp maneuver like the patriot missiles.
> 
> Sharp turn maneuver, countermeasure from flares to chaff, ECW the indonesian f-16s can be equipped with a pod & I think there's more. Remember we have better pilots & better planes than yours.
> 
> We don't need to inflict a devastating blows or a bloody nose attack just enough to make sure vietnam disappeared from the natuna sea & sues for peace.
> 
> Vietnam being given mango is already god given. If Russia doesn't even give their REAL ally india their best rounds what hope you can possibly have? Also politically speaking giving vietnam a tank round that can actually harm china newer tank is a no brainer. This is just a simple process of elimination.


Ok just a theoretical scenario: you say Vietnam is weak, how do you want to shoot down Vietnam’s high flying bombers or counter attacks of ballistic missiles if Indo airdefense only has AA guns?







Can AA gun shoot down GPS guided land attack missile?


----------



## Aqsuperman

What a fcking persistent bastard you are. I give you that.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Once again its your problem if you can't trust hrw or the unhcr or even your own citizens for that matters.



I trust them enough to use their reports. I simply don't give credit to your speculations. "Disappearance in Vietnam" equals death? Then how about "Disappearance in Indonesia"? Once again, you fail to produce solid evidence that someone actually DIED in Vietnam while I could provide TONS of sources that indicate indiscriminate killings/abuses of power take place around the clock in Indonesia.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Really your country won't let you vote or protest & that's better how again? If you willing to trade freedom for security you deserves neither. This is why I never understand the viet slave mentality. No indonesian would want their country to be like vietnam, but vietnamese would want vietnam to be democratic.



And you call yourself an E-X-P-E-R-T lol. Vietnamese have the right to vote, to protest and to decide their fate. If we kept doing things in the old way, we would have ended up like the Soviet Union long ago. KEY DIFFERENCES there. "Trade freedom for security"? Guess what:Indonesian have neither FREEDOM nor SECURITY. Don't fool yourself: Anti-government protesters in Indonesia got shot while rebels run amok. Moreover, it's funny for us to be called "slave" by someone that annexed lands and enslave other ethics.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> How many time should I tell you. Your jungle is nothing compared to papuan jungle. It's a an air lift operation, a high altitude rescue in the most inhospitable jungle involving 2 branches & hundreds of personnel where everything can go wrong. There's no vietnamese equivalent & the last operations you have were in the 1970s meanwhile all indonesian operations haven't be declassified yet.



Sound impressive, still can't hold a candle to Vietnam operations in Cambodia  Have you guys ever attacked strong points while under attacked by heavy artillery, aircraft and thousands of well armed rebels? Google "Vietnam-Thailand Border Skirmishes" to see how dismal the scope of your "rescue operation" is.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Speaking of counter terrorism we have the best CTU in the region. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...force-has-become-a-model-for-the-region-97368



B-E-S-T? As in "has the best chance at failing miserably" time and gain? See this: If you are so good at fighting terrorists, government of other countries would not have to put up TONS of warnings regarding terrorists threat in Indonesia. Logic, mate.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> I swear you just keep getting dumber & dumber. If TNI wanted to kill all the "rats" it would have done so already. The same reason why there's still a vietnam is because the US doesn't want to exterminate all of you. TNI mission in the region is to assist the local governor & maintain order in nduga. That's it.



And I'm certain that you just got full retard with that absurd claim. "We are so good at killing terrorists but we simply want to maintain order and shiet so we keep letting the terrorists attack us every now and then". Is that claim sound like it comes from an qualified E-X-P-E-R-T? In counter terrorists, you kill every terrorist as soon as possible, no exception. Any kind of excuses you use to refute that rule is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-E-T, plain and simple. NO ONE like to have terrorist in their country so if you have some terrorists running around then there are 2 possibilities: Either you guys SUCK at counter terrorists or Indonesia DELIBERATELY allow the terrorists to do so. Take your pick.

Speaking about Vietnam War, the only thing that the US stop from using is nuclear weapon. They already threw at us things that would make the average Indonesian wet their pant. Now I'm not claim that the US Armed Forces lack firepower. However, they simply fight the wrong war against the wrong people with the wrong strategy. Nowadays, people often talk about Vietnam War as a proof that the US occasionally go into wars without a clear "exit strategy" in mind. Iraq would be the prime example by the way.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The VPA budget is to maintain its large standing army & hardware. The Indonesian army is to maintain a small but effective force. We paid, trained, fed & equipped our soldiers better than yours. VPA is an army composed mostly of peasants there's not single shred of professionalism in any of their soldiers.



Again, FIELD PERFORMANCE. You feed your soldiers better than us? You give you troops more weapon than us? You train your troops more rigorously than us? Then they must have performed better than us, right?

Sadly, the TNI fails HORRIBLY considering the investment that go into them. Brag about your equipment, brag about your "rescue operation", brag about "giant inter-service exercises",...but that cannot change one fact: Half of the worlds still issues warning to their citizen regarding terrorist risks in Indonesia. That means people from other countries simply don't believe that your army is able to do J-A-C-K-S-H-I-E-T to maintain order across the country.

You call us peasant army? Well our peasant army know not to shoot our unarmed protesters. Could you say the same about your "professional" troops? Oh being trigger happy is a trait of professionalism in the TNI?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Most of your aad are concentrated up north, this is however not the case in the south where there are less aad to handle. The S300 is not going to change anything Contrary to popular belief aad are actually not that hard to avoid especially a russian made one. Cause they were not made to make a sharp maneuver like the patriot missiles.



"Because it's Russian" is not a plausible excuse to play down risk from AA and SAM. Remember that while we concentrate our army in the north, every division in the VPA possesses organic SAMs. In fact, many bases in the South have deep SAM umbrella to shield important installations near the coast so fat chance you guys could push through without dying in droves.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Sharp turn maneuver, countermeasure from flares to chaff, ECW the indonesian f-16s can be equipped with a pod & I think there's more. Remember we have better pilots & better planes than yours.



Oh please, your F-16s are still Block 32+ Standards A/B and C/D. Those aircraft came into being back in 1980s. They are at least 3 decade old. Without upgrades, as if they could carry modern day gears for air suppression duty. That is IF you have something for that kind of duty. Again, don't think, either name the shiet you have or accept the fact that you have nothing at all. Period.

"Better planes and better pilots"? Eh, I don't think people are willing to sell you good stuff if you intend to pay them with palm oil. Just saying. Pilot skills? Have you pilot receive training from people that actually shoot down planes? We went tango with the US Air force for decades, not mention that we are a long time ally of Russia. As if we could lose to you guys in pilot training.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> We don't need to inflict a devastating blows or a bloody nose attack just enough to make sure vietnam disappeared from the natuna sea & sues for peace.



A while ago, you claimed that you guys could leisurely "annihilate every viet base in southern Vietnam" at the drop of a hat but now you just want us to get out of natuna? That seems to be a DRAMATIC drop from your earlier claims, right? Good luck holding up to that kind of dream lol.


Your ships could not reach us without being engaged by shore missiles, submarine and surface warships

Your jet could not reach us without being engaged by SAMs, autocannon and of course, VPAF Sukhoi fighter

Your guys have nothing good for air suppression duty, let alone base-killing weapons.
Conclusion: Indonesian could barely scratch bases in Vietnam. Your chance of dealing critical damages is second to none.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Vietnam being given mango is already god given. If Russia doesn't even give their REAL ally india their best rounds what hope you can possibly have? Also politically speaking giving vietnam a tank round that can actually harm china newer tank is a no brainer. This is just a simple process of elimination.



India and Russia are allies in the international stage but they are also competitors in weapon market. It's understandable that Russia might not want to give India the best thing they have but both countries nonetheless cooperate from time to time, namely the Brahmos project which Vietnam already secured a few dozens examples the last I heard. But Vietnam? As if we could endanger Russia position when it comes to exporting weapon. That is why the odds are good that Russia might be willing to offer us quality stuff. In the case they are unable to give us the best thing they have in their service then whatever they give us still could not be as crappy as you Indonesian hope to be. Who would buy from Russia if all they give for their long time allies are crappy stuff? Again, logic.

Once more time, I have to remind you that you are an amateur. The "process of elimination" you come up with has an EXTREMELY low credibility. Without CONCRETE collaborations from TRUE EXPERTS that have better insights, your claim is nothing but TRASH.

P.S: While Russia is willing to sell weapon, the bear seems to prefer hard currencies over palm oil. So I dare SPECULATE that Su-35 for Indonesian would be equal the quality of palm oil you guys send

Reactions: Like Like:
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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Ok there are other news. A year has passed since the medics were sent to South Sudan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 546678
> 
> 
> View attachment 546680
> 
> 
> View attachment 546682
> 
> 
> View attachment 546684
> 
> 
> View attachment 546686


What kind of camo is that...


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## Aqsuperman

YuChen said:


> What kind of camo is that...



Something that come crashing out of the drawing board in 1 month lol :v Still blend in fairly well.

Back to relevant news, 1 of Vietnam 4 Gerard-class frigates,HQ-16 Quang Trung, recently left for Malaysia for a an exercise. Potentially, the exercise shall take place along with ships from Australian Navy returning from IPE-19 exercise in Sri Lanka.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## striver44

Viet said:


> Ok just a theoretical scenario: you say Vietnam is weak, how do you want to shoot down Vietnam’s high flying bombers or counter attacks of ballistic missiles if Indo airdefense only has AA guns?
> 
> 
> View attachment 547086
> 
> 
> Can AA gun shoot down GPS guided land attack missile?
> 
> View attachment 547089


Hahahahahahaha the question is....how would your ballistic missile even reach our cities? 
Oh i know....i suppose the vietcong will brought the scud swimming until it reaches certain distace to strike indonesian territory


----------



## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> Hahahahahahaha the question is....how would your ballistic missile even reach our cities?
> Oh i know....i suppose the vietcong will brought the scud swimming until it reaches certain distace to strike indonesian territory



Back for more, eh? "Uhuhuhuhu boy"? For a moment, I though you turned tail and ran back to your cage but bravo for coming back. 

What Viet said is a THEORY. Do you even understand the meaning of that word? He simply wants to show that there is no way you could stop guided missiles using autocannon plus MANPADS alone. Why we want to waste our Scud on the fragile AA network of Indonesia while we could rely on precise air to surface missiles for point targets? 

But I guess for people that could barely contain some small-time rebels for the longest time, theories about air-air defense are too hard to comprehend?


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> What a fcking persistent bastard you are. I give you that.
> 
> 
> 
> I trust them enough to use their reports. I simply don't give credit to your speculations. "Disappearance in Vietnam" equals death? Then how about "Disappearance in Indonesia"? Once again, you fail to produce solid evidence that someone actually DIED in Vietnam while I could provide TONS of sources that indicate indiscriminate killings/abuses of power take place around the clock in Indonesia.
> 
> 
> 
> And you call yourself an E-X-P-E-R-T lol. Vietnamese have the right to vote, to protest and to decide their fate. If we kept doing things in the old way, we would have ended up like the Soviet Union long ago. KEY DIFFERENCES there. "Trade freedom for security"? Guess what:Indonesian have neither FREEDOM nor SECURITY. Don't fool yourself: Anti-government protesters in Indonesia got shot while rebels run amok. Moreover, it's funny for us to be called "slave" by someone that annexed lands and enslave other ethics.
> 
> 
> 
> Sound impressive, still can't hold a candle to Vietnam operations in Cambodia  Have you guys ever attacked strong points while under attacked by heavy artillery, aircraft and thousands of well armed rebels? Google "Vietnam-Thailand Border Skirmishes" to see how dismal the scope of your "rescue operation" is.
> 
> 
> 
> B-E-S-T? As in "has the best chance at failing miserably" time and gain? See this: If you are so good at fighting terrorists, government of other countries would not have to put up TONS of warnings regarding terrorists threat in Indonesia. Logic, mate.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm certain that you just got full retard with that absurd claim. "We are so good at killing terrorists but we simply want to maintain order and shiet so we keep letting the terrorists attack us every now and then". Is that claim sound like it comes from an qualified E-X-P-E-R-T? In counter terrorists, you kill every terrorist as soon as possible, no exception. Any kind of excuses you use to refute that rule is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-E-T, plain and simple. NO ONE like to have terrorist in their country so if you have some terrorists running around then there are 2 possibilities: Either you guys SUCK at counter terrorists or Indonesia DELIBERATELY allow the terrorists to do so. Take your pick.
> 
> Speaking about Vietnam War, the only thing that the US stop from using is nuclear weapon. They already threw at us things that would make the average Indonesian wet their pant. Now I'm not claim that the US Armed Forces lack firepower. However, they simply fight the wrong war against the wrong people with the wrong strategy. Nowadays, people often talk about Vietnam War as a proof that the US occasionally go into wars without a clear "exit strategy" in mind. Iraq would be the prime example by the way.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, FIELD PERFORMANCE. You feed your soldiers better than us? You give you troops more weapon than us? You train your troops more rigorously than us? Then they must have performed better than us, right?
> 
> Sadly, the TNI fails HORRIBLY considering the investment that go into them. Brag about your equipment, brag about your "rescue operation", brag about "giant inter-service exercises",...but that cannot change one fact: Half of the worlds still issues warning to their citizen regarding terrorist risks in Indonesia. That means people from other countries simply don't believe that your army is able to do J-A-C-K-S-H-I-E-T to maintain order across the country.
> 
> You call us peasant army? Well our peasant army know not to shoot our unarmed protesters. Could you say the same about your "professional" troops? Oh being trigger happy is a trait of professionalism in the TNI?
> 
> 
> 
> "Because it's Russian" is not a plausible excuse to play down risk from AA and SAM. Remember that while we concentrate our army in the north, every division in the VPA possesses organic SAMs. In fact, many bases in the South have deep SAM umbrella to shield important installations near the coast so fat chance you guys could push through without dying in droves.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, your F-16s are still Block 32+ Standards A/B and C/D. Those aircraft came into being back in 1980s. They are at least 3 decade old. Without upgrades, as if they could carry modern day gears for air suppression duty. That is IF you have something for that kind of duty. Again, don't think, either name the shiet you have or accept the fact that you have nothing at all. Period.
> 
> "Better planes and better pilots"? Eh, I don't think people are willing to sell you good stuff if you intend to pay them with palm oil. Just saying. Pilot skills? Have you pilot receive training from people that actually shoot down planes? We went tango with the US Air force for decades, not mention that we are a long time ally of Russia. As if we could lose to you guys in pilot training.
> 
> 
> 
> A while ago, you claimed that you guys could leisurely "annihilate every viet base in southern Vietnam" at the drop of a hat but now you just want us to get out of natuna? That seems to be a DRAMATIC drop from your earlier claims, right? Good luck holding up to that kind of dream lol.
> 
> 
> Your ships could not reach us without being engaged by shore missiles, submarine and surface warships
> 
> Your jet could not reach us without being engaged by SAMs, autocannon and of course, VPAF Sukhoi fighter
> 
> Your guys have nothing good for air suppression duty, let alone base-killing weapons.
> Conclusion: Indonesian could barely scratch bases in Vietnam. Your chance of dealing critical damages is second to none.
> 
> 
> 
> India and Russia are allies in the international stage but they are also competitors in weapon market. It's understandable that Russia might not want to give India the best thing they have but both countries nonetheless cooperate from time to time, namely the Brahmos project which Vietnam already secured a few dozens examples the last I heard. But Vietnam? As if we could endanger Russia position when it comes to exporting weapon. That is why the odds are good that Russia might be willing to offer us quality stuff. In the case they are unable to give us the best thing they have in their service then whatever they give us still could not be as crappy as you Indonesian hope to be. Who would buy from Russia if all they give for their long time allies are crappy stuff? Again, logic.
> 
> Once more time, I have to remind you that you are an amateur. The "process of elimination" you come up with has an EXTREMELY low credibility. Without CONCRETE collaborations from TRUE EXPERTS that have better insights, your claim is nothing but TRASH.
> 
> P.S: While Russia is willing to sell weapon, the bear seems to prefer hard currencies over palm oil. So I dare SPECULATE that Su-35 for Indonesian would be equal the quality of palm oil you guys send



This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.

In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html

In vietnam you can never protest like this.

Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.

Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them? 

Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army? 

Close but no dice




Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them. 

Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner. 

Not to mention we trounced the Australian air force during pitch black exercise 2012. Last time I check the australians are better than you.

Except india doesn't produce 125mm tank rounds & not a competitor in that field. Despite india being a major customers. Buying more weapons in a single quarter than vietnam. Russia still doesn't give them & Mango is the only rounds the russian export. So no lekalo or svinets for you. Meanwhile our DM53 can destroy your T-90s like it was nothing.

But that also makes you Russia's bitch. Indonesia is in the verge of becoming a major arms producer & if war do break out we can build our own & vietnam can't.


----------



## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.



Monarchies supposed to died over centuries ago but many still lingers around in the present days. Why don't people from those countries rise up and overthrow the throne?

"If I'm not tortured or dead" = "I must protest against the VCp". What kind of fck up logics is that?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html
> 
> In vietnam you can never protest like this.



Vietnamese rarely have to protests because though life is hard, they could push through using help from the government. Don't act as if "having many protests" is the proof of freedom lol, especially when you open fire against the protesters every now and then while we NEVER resort to that kind of method. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.



Right,...So you mean killing people is still not as server as NOT killing people? That is once FCKING CATCH 22 LOGIC there. What's next? "Counter terrorist is not about killing them, it's about nurturing them so they keep attacking you until you all wind up dead"?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them?



Duh, I AM technically a Vietnamese soldier. From what I look, they eat just fine. Malnourished? Well as long as world nutritionists don't classify Vietnam and the Vietnam People Army as malnourished then guess what: Once more time, your opinion is TRASH.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army?



Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency,...

Vietnam soldiers do nothing but manage to secure peace for decades.

Indonesian soldiers do a lot of thing but government from other countries still judge your country as a nest of terrorists. 
Yea...I think that it was YOU Indonesian that FAIL to get your money woorth LOL.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them.



In the US records, your F-16 are classified as Block 32+, the name "block 52ID" is nowhere near actual "block 52" lol. "Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement" SOUND FCKING SCARY indeed. But guess what: The air frame of your F-16 already reach the end of their service life. I highly doubt they could do JACK SHIET against the combination of modern day SAM + Sukhoi. Again, no sources, no pictures, just words. And no one give credit to words alone  



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner.



Oh I don't know but is alzheimer disease widespread in Indonesia and old Indonesians lost their mind the moment they hit 60s? Because in Vietnam, our old war veteran could manage themselves fairly well and they sure as hell could recount battle stories for the young pilots. Train as hard as you like but nothing beat tactics obtained from actual wars.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Not to mention we trounced the Australian air force during pitch black exercise 2012. Last time I check the australians are better than you.



You guys "trounced" the Australian air force? Could you provides sources for that? What is the kill ratio in the stimulation by the way? 5 : 1? 10: 1? or...13 : 1? You know that you throwing out a claim without backup sources is kind of DUMP, right? 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Except india doesn't produce 125mm tank rounds & not a competitor in that field. Despite india being a major customers. Buying more weapons in a single quarter than vietnam. Russia still doesn't give them & Mango is the only rounds the russian export. So no lekalo or svinets for you. Meanwhile our DM53 can destroy your T-90s like it was nothing.



Lol for an E-X-P-E-R-T, you are slow at catching up recent developments. Search the phrase "India tank munition" and se the result.. Russian already transfered technologies to India so the latter could produce 125mm rounds long ago. Who know if the India could start exporting the rounds in the future. Once again, I have to emphasize the fact that Indonesian Leopard are USED vehicles that Bundeswehr ditched out of their Cold War era storage. On the other hand, Vietnam T-90 are newly manufactured. Want to compared hull age? I would advised that Indonesia tank driver be careful not to break the hull of their elderly Leopard while maneuvering. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> But that also makes you Russia's bitch. Indonesia is in the verge of becoming a major arms producer & if war do break out we can build our own & vietnam can't.



Oh you want to go with more derogatory? I guess the gloves are off then so how about this: Vietnam is a bitch but Indonesia, a country with an almighty army could not maintain order across the land which is obviously worse than what the army of a bitch could do. So what that make the Indonesia military ? A SON OF A BITCH? A PUSSY? A WENCH? 

"In the verge of becoming a major arms producer" my A-S-S. You best invention lately is a light tank. So far no fighter jet, no MBT,...no stuff that could help you win ACTUAL wars. What I find funny most is that the more you brag about the strength of your army, I feel them to be weaker and weaker. Foreign governments still publish countless warning about the risk of terrorist in Indonesia but you believe you are "winning" the war on terrorists? With all of that tanks, jets and shiet but Indonesia still suffer terrorist attacks after terrorist attacks for the last 20 years? Indonesia fields the best counter terrorist unit in the region? Apparently not "best" enough to finish rag tag rebels once and for all. 

SO THEN WHAT GOOD IS YOUR ARMY? JUST A SHOW DOG THAT ONLY BITE FOR REAL IN EXERCISES?


----------



## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> Back for more, eh? "Uhuhuhuhu boy"? For a moment, I though you turned tail and ran back to your cage but bravo for coming back.
> 
> What Viet said is a THEORY. Do you even understand the meaning of that word? He simply wants to show that there is no way you could stop guided missiles using autocannon plus MANPADS alone. Why we want to waste our Scud on the fragile AA network of Indonesia while we could rely on precise air to surface missiles for point targets?
> 
> But I guess for people that could barely contain some small-time rebels for the longest time, theories about air-air defense are too hard to comprehend?


Ouhhh i suggest my girlfriend @Aqsuperman miss me already hahahha



Aqsuperman said:


> Back for more, eh? "Uhuhuhuhu boy"? For a moment, I though you turned tail and ran back to your cage but bravo for coming back.
> 
> What Viet said is a THEORY. Do you even understand the meaning of that word? He simply wants to show that there is no way you could stop guided missiles using autocannon plus MANPADS alone. Why we want to waste our Scud on the fragile AA network of Indonesia while we could rely on precise air to surface missiles for point targets?
> 
> But I guess for people that could barely contain some small-time rebels for the longest time, theories about air-air defense are too hard to comprehend?


Well I've got work to do so its not wise to spend all my time here, i suggest youre jobless because you appear to have nothing to do other than defending vietnam fishermen in this forum lol



Reashot Xigwin said:


> This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.
> 
> In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html
> 
> In vietnam you can never protest like this.
> 
> Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.
> 
> Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them?
> 
> Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army?
> 
> Close but no dice
> View attachment 547263
> 
> Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them.
> 
> Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner.
> 
> Not to mention we trounced the Australian air force during pitch black exercise 2012. Last time I check the australians are better than you.
> 
> Except india doesn't produce 125mm tank rounds & not a competitor in that field. Despite india being a major customers. Buying more weapons in a single quarter than vietnam. Russia still doesn't give them & Mango is the only rounds the russian export. So no lekalo or svinets for you. Meanwhile our DM53 can destroy your T-90s like it was nothing.
> 
> But that also makes you Russia's bitch. Indonesia is in the verge of becoming a major arms producer & if war do break out we can build our own & vietnam can't.


I've told you before, relax there is nothing the vietnamese goverment ever going to do with those fishermen, we could trade blow with them all day long, but whats the point? We're humiliating their CG and destroying their fishing fleet and there is nothing those T90,scid,kalibr,kilo,s300 shit going to do to change that.....lol.

believe me im more than happy once those scid missile and kalibr are fired. Indonesian goverment will then allocate more funds for the armed forces and we will have aour F16V's and our AAW frigate faster then we all hope. Dont forget that indonesian navy only consider AAW frigate after the chinese coast guard incident back in 2016



Viva_Viet said:


> Then stop our guard ships in disputed zone first. We r taking tons of good fish, crab, losbter in VN-ID disputed zone evryday and leave Nothing to ID fisherman


LOl admitting yourself for theft. And while the samw time cry baby because china wants some of your islands



Reashot Xigwin said:


> This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.
> 
> In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html
> 
> In vietnam you can never protest like this.
> 
> Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.
> 
> Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them?
> 
> Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army?
> 
> Close but no dice
> View attachment 547263
> 
> Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them.
> 
> Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner.


Their only modern jets are basically the sukhois.....the rest are hand me down cold war era jets.
Meanwhile indonesia could field not only sukhois, but also F16's, hawks, T50's. Not to mention the incoming su35. Their s300 sound so scary, in paper. We all know how those missile performed against western built jets in syria. In theory egyptian air defence should decimate the IAF in 1973 and 1982. But look what happened? Hahahahaha
Their navy is built on molniya class attack boat (yes boat) with limited range (vietnam doesnt operate navy oiler). During the desrt storm campaign 12 such iraqi missile boats were decimated by royal navy westland lynx. Dont forget that we will stationed Apache's on natuna. The only ocean going vessel would be the 4 gepard frigate and hand me down pohangs with no missile armament . Not a big deal at all

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> Ouhhh i suggest my girlfriend @Aqsuperman miss me already hahahha



You might be careful about your choice of words. The last I heard, Indonesia beat up gays and people that claim to be gays. So if you have weird fancies about me, you should keep them to yourselves, no need to speak out loud. Unless that is what get you d-i-c-k up...



striver44 said:


> Well I've got work to do so its not wise to spend all my time here, i suggest youre jobless because you appear to have nothing to do other than defending vietnam fishermen in this forum lol



Lol do you want to compare about our occupation now? See this: It was YOU Indonesian that came to OUR thread, not the other way around. We are normally HERE. So as if we would let you rambling on and on about the might of Indonesian Army while dehumanizing us Vietnamese in this thread. For the record, I spend roughly 20 minutes/day browsing military forums and defense related pages as a hobby which means I could accomplish my militia duty AND my primary job no trouble.



striver44 said:


> I've told you before, relax there is nothing the vietnamese goverment ever going to do with those fishermen, we could trade blow with them all day long, but whats the point? We're humiliating their CG and destroying their fishing fleet and there is nothing those T90,scid,kalibr,kilo,s300 shit going to do to change that.....lol.



Feeling proud to be an aggressor on the sea, eh? Japan used to act like that around 80 years ago as well. Guess what happen to them? Yeah, 2 nukes. Keep resorting to live ammunition and the next thing come to shove would be missiles. See if your pathetic AA guns and short range MANPADS could save Indonesian A-S-S from getting nicely TOASTED.



striver44 said:


> believe me im more than happy once those scid missile and kalibr are fired. Indonesian goverment will then allocate more funds for the armed forces and we will have aour F16V's and our AAW frigate faster then we all hope. Dont forget that indonesian navy only consider AAW frigate after the chinese coast guard incident back in 2016



Indonesian already tossed away TONS of money to combat threats from terrorists with zero effects. I would love to see how Indonesia could scramble money effectively in wartime conditions with missiles pounding their cities day and night.



striver44 said:


> eanwhile indonesia could field not only sukhois, but also F16's, hawks, T50's



Yeah, Indonesian F-16s are not hand-me-down jets either, they are just extremely old  By the way, did you just include trainer and light attack aircraft? The newest Hawks would be at least 16 year old by now, not to mention that it possesses laughable combat loads and service range. T-50 Golden Eagle? You use trainers for combat duty? They would be nice target practices at best. 



striver44 said:


> We all know how those missile performed against western built jets in syria. In theory egyptian air defence should decimate the IAF in 1973 and 1982. But look what happened? Hahahahaha


Once again, you guys need to know that Israeli simply have ample experience in air suppression which they obtain after suffering heavy losses in the Yom Kippur War. They have the tools AND the tactics. Indonesian nowadays?

-No ACTUAL SAMs so near zero experience in air suppression duty
-No anti radiation missiles so you pilots need to rely on visual confirmation while targeting SAM sites, which is basically flying around until we shoot you down.

Keep laughing like that until we send back Indonesian pilots to Jakarta in body bags  



striver44 said:


> Their navy is built on molniya class attack boat (yes boat) with limited range (vietnam doesnt operate navy oiler).



Because we don't consider oilier as naval assets in peace time. In wartime, we could appropriate vessels from PetroVietam to support ships on extended missions. 



striver44 said:


> uring the desrt storm campaign 12 such iraqi missile boats were decimated by royal navy westland lynx.



So you guys are as good as the Brits? I doubt that as they killed Indonesian left and right with relative ease back in Indonesian National Revolution.



striver44 said:


> The only ocean going vessel would be the 4 gepard frigate and hand me down pohangs with no missile armament . Not a big deal at all



You conveniently forget that we have 6 cruise missile capable Kilo submarines. Considering the fact that the best ASW ships in Indonesian service are a fleet of rotten ex-East German Project 1331M, I would LOVE to see how Indonesian Navy fare against opposing subs that could throw missiles from more than 200 kilometers away. Of course, we would have to take into account the missile defense of Indonesia...Wait a minute: Your guys have SHIET in that aspect


----------



## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Monarchies supposed to died over centuries ago but many still lingers around in the present days. Why don't people from those countries rise up and overthrow the throne?
> 
> "If I'm not tortured or dead" = "I must protest against the VCp". What kind of fck up logics is that?
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese rarely have to protests because though life is hard, they could push through using help from the government. Don't act as if "having many protests" is the proof of freedom lol, especially when you open fire against the protesters every now and then while we NEVER resort to that kind of method.
> 
> 
> 
> Right,...So you mean killing people is still not as server as NOT killing people? That is once FCKING CATCH 22 LOGIC there. What's next? "Counter terrorist is not about killing them, it's about nurturing them so they keep attacking you until you all wind up dead"?
> 
> 
> 
> Duh, I AM technically a Vietnamese soldier. From what I look, they eat just fine. Malnourished? Well as long as world nutritionists don't classify Vietnam and the Vietnam People Army as malnourished then guess what: Once more time, your opinion is TRASH.
> 
> 
> 
> Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency,...
> 
> Vietnam soldiers do nothing but manage to secure peace for decades.
> 
> Indonesian soldiers do a lot of thing but government from other countries still judge your country as a nest of terrorists.
> Yea...I think that it was YOU Indonesian that FAIL to get your money woorth LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> In the US records, your F-16 are classified as Block 32+, the name "block 52ID" is nowhere near actual "block 52" lol. "Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement" SOUND FCKING SCARY indeed. But guess what: The air frame of your F-16 already reach the end of their service life. I highly doubt they could do JACK SHIET against the combination of modern day SAM + Sukhoi. Again, no sources, no pictures, just words. And no one give credit to words alone
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I don't know but is alzheimer disease widespread in Indonesia and old Indonesians lost their mind the moment they hit 60s? Because in Vietnam, our old war veteran could manage themselves fairly well and they sure as hell could recount battle stories for the young pilots. Train as hard as you like but nothing beat tactics obtained from actual wars.
> 
> 
> 
> You guys "trounced" the Australian air force? Could you provides sources for that? What is the kill ratio in the stimulation by the way? 5 : 1? 10: 1? or...13 : 1? You know that you throwing out a claim without backup sources is kind of DUMP, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Lol for an E-X-P-E-R-T, you are slow at catching up recent developments. Search the phrase "India tank munition" and se the result.. Russian already transfered technologies to India so the latter could produce 125mm rounds long ago. Who know if the India could start exporting the rounds in the future. Once again, I have to emphasize the fact that Indonesian Leopard are USED vehicles that Bundeswehr ditched out of their Cold War era storage. On the other hand, Vietnam T-90 are newly manufactured. Want to compared hull age? I would advised that Indonesia tank driver be careful not to break the hull of their elderly Leopard while maneuvering.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh you want to go with more derogatory? I guess the gloves are off then so how about this: Vietnam is a bitch but Indonesia, a country with an almighty army could not maintain order across the land which is obviously worse than what the army of a bitch could do. So what that make the Indonesia military ? A SON OF A BITCH? A PUSSY? A WENCH?
> 
> "In the verge of becoming a major arms producer" my A-S-S. You best invention lately is a light tank. So far no fighter jet, no MBT,...no stuff that could help you win ACTUAL wars. What I find funny most is that the more you brag about the strength of your army, I feel them to be weaker and weaker. Foreign governments still publish countless warning about the risk of terrorist in Indonesia but you believe you are "winning" the war on terrorists? With all of that tanks, jets and shiet but Indonesia still suffer terrorist attacks after terrorist attacks for the last 20 years? Indonesia fields the best counter terrorist unit in the region? Apparently not "best" enough to finish rag tag rebels once and for all.
> 
> SO THEN WHAT GOOD IS YOUR ARMY? JUST A SHOW DOG THAT ONLY BITE FOR REAL IN EXERCISES?


This is your argument btw:

Vietnam isn't a human right shithole despite: 

- Having no election.

- No protest right.

- Draconian laws. (You can get arrested for not singing a song correctly.) 

- Low labor rights.

- No free press.

- Culture of systematic abuses. 

- Repression on religious right. 

- Unlawful executions.

- Enslaving prisoners for labor. https://laborrights.org/our-work/forced-labor-vietnam (>30k people enslaved to make t-shirts.)

& So on & so forth... But according to you its not so bad. Because they don't kill people (not that you know of) somehow? 

Do you realize how retarded you are right now? 

See this is why its right to called vietnamese as slaves. As long as you guys are fed you won't say a word despite the horrible shit happening in the background. The right to Protest is the foundation of human rights without it you might as well live in tyranny. Oh wait? You already in one. [emoji23] 

Oh yeah, because because 60 years old dogfighting experience in a mig 21 is going to do you any good. There is a better way to embarrass yourself, you know. 

Doing nothing is now called efficiency? Well I know what I'm going to use as an excuse for not going to work. "Hey, boss I'm not going to work because I'm being efficient right now." Genius! By that logic bums are just being efficient. VPA are not bums they are just being efficient.

What kind of argument is that anyway. The least active you are the more effective you become? 

Still doesn't change the facts that we still have better armed forces than yours. BTW trouncing the australian, its real. The exercise starts with australian super hornets locking on the flankers but the flankers immediately close the distance and move behind their backs & tag them. 

Also about terrorists. In case you didn't know something bad just happened in new zealand & Netherland just now. Wonder what you think about their armed forces. After all you tied military prowess to how they can stop terrorism that they have no control of? 

See how flawed your argument is?


----------



## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Vietnam isn't a human right shithole despite:
> 
> - Having no election.
> 
> - No protest right.
> 
> - Draconian laws. (You can get arrested for not singing a song correctly.)
> 
> - Low labor rights.
> 
> - No free press.
> 
> - Culture of systematic abuses.
> 
> - Repression on religious right.
> 
> - Unlawful executions.
> 
> - Enslaving prisoners for labor. https://laborrights.org/our-work/forced-labor-vietnam (>30k people enslaved to make t-shirts.)
> 
> & So on & so forth... But according to you its not so bad. Because they don't kill people (not that you know of) somehow?
> 
> Do you realize how retarded you are right now?



Here is what I want you to do: Take those key words you list, put "Indonesia" next to them and search the phrase online. See how many result come up? P.S: I already did that so don't try to bullshiet your way out of this. In the case you are too lazy, here are some links

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/indonesia-set-carry-out-14-unlawful-executions-tonight
http://www.etan.org/news/2011/11faleopayne.htm
https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/268976.pdf

"You can get arrested for not singing a song correctly" ? Oh wait, it sound familiar somehow...Oh that shiet just happen a couple of weeks ago in Indonesia. Can I claim that you guys also use "draconian laws" as you prosecute people for signing an anti-military song?

Yes, according to ME, Vietnam is PARADISE compared to Indonesia as NO ONE have died yet. There is a reason why murder is one the hideous crimes in modern laws. There is no way IN Hell a country that kill people indiscriminately could claim to have a "relatively strong human right". We keep going back and forth over this issue so try to get this this through your fcking thick skull of your.

YOU KILL PEOPLE. I HAVE PROOFS WITH THE WORD "KILL" IN THEM.
WE DON'T KILL PEOPLE. HAVE PROOF THAT SHOW OTHERWISE? SHOW IT.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> See this is why its right to called vietnamese as slaves. As long as you guys are fed you won't say a word despite the horrible shit happening in the background. The right to Protest is the foundation of human rights without it you might as well live in tyranny. Oh wait? You already in one



You have a hard time comprehending HUMAN words? I already said Vietnamese have the right to object government decision. We simply choose to do that through various channels before resorting to mass protects. In Indonesia? Sure, you could protest at will. It just that sometime, Indonesian soldiers + polices might shoot protesters to death, that's all.

Awesome "foundation of human rights" you got there.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Oh yeah, because because 60 years old dogfighting experience in a mig 21 is going to do you any good. There is a better way to embarrass yourself, you know.



War never changes. Experiences from an old war always provide good knowledge. But for an army that got massacred with a ratio between 6 :1 and 13 : 1, there is indeed nothing to learn from old veterans.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Doing nothing is now called efficiency? Well I know what I'm going to use as an excuse for not going to work. "Hey, boss I'm not going to work because I'm being efficient right now." Genius! By that logic bums are just being efficient. VPA are not bums they are just being efficient.



It seem that you are born stupid. See: How could you measure the effectiveness of an army? Do you measure by counting the number of exercise and the expense that go in it? Or you take a good look at its ability to maintain orders in the country?

VPA is inactive, lazy and simply act like a bum? Then why the heck is there is no terrorists around in Vietnam? We have more than 50 ethics, 8 major religions with dozens of conflicting thoughts, not to mention that we are located in a zone know for ongoing insurrection. So by your logic, Vietnam would have been ravaged by terrorists attacks for YEARS.

But guess what: VPA NEVER let an terrorist attack occur. Why? We simply fight things that have to be fought. Period. In Indonesia, the military focus on hosting exercise and bragging about their might. That is the REASON why for decades, Indonesian have to live alongside terrorists. Unless there are major changes, your children and their grandchildren would also have to live knowing that some jack A-S-S might blow them up in heartbeat, all because the military fail to set things right.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Still doesn't change the facts that we still have better armed forces than yours. BTW trouncing the australian, its real. The exercise starts with australian super hornets locking on the flankers but the flankers immediately close the distance and move behind their backs & tag them.



Have you seen the annual parades of the New Iraqi Army before the ISIS attacks? They showcase top of the line weaponry, things that only cold hard dollars could afford. But once ISIS sweep over, the Army disinterested into the wind. Sure, Indonesia might have fancy stuff in the military but in the end, what Indonesian want is ORDER. An Army that fail to maintain ORDER means NOTHING.

Btw, I don't want to hear your fcking words, I want a god damn source that claim you guys "trounce" the Australia Air Force. Stimulation reports, flight logs, ..whatever, just throw me some proofs. Unless that it happens to belong solely to your IMAGINATION again as with the "rotten VPAF Su-27".



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Also about terrorists. In case you didn't know something bad just happened in new zealand & Netherland just now. Wonder what you think about their armed forces. After all you tied military prowess to how they can stop terrorism that they have no control of?
> 
> See how flawed your argument is?



What happen in Christchurch, New Zealand is a typical "lone wolf" attack. While it's indeed possible to claim that it's a terrorist attack, I personally think that it's a mass shooting motivated by hatred against Muslim, similar to what happen in schools in the United States.

BUT, and this is a big BUT, what currently happen in Indonesia is far more different than New Zealand. You guys have ACTIVE insurrections. New Zealand? They have no rebel. That means the Indonesian army must perform better than the NZ at stopping terrorist attacks. Sadly, the performance of your military is simply a BIG disappointment. For the last 2 decades, how many months manage to pass by in Indonesia without a terrorist attack?

My idea stand the same: The duty of an army is to protect its people, maintain order and secure the land. An army that is REPEATEDLY fail to accomplish these tasks, no matter how "fancy" it appears, is an army of JOKERS. Period.


----------



## Viet

Hi


YuChen said:


> What kind of camo is that...


a random camo I guess. As for camo, Vietnam develops some domestic small arms and fake major weapons to fool enemy satellites. I wonder if they can succeed?

On the background a fake S300 missile system






real S300






fake Su30





real Su30


----------



## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> You might be careful about your choice of words. The last I heard, Indonesia beat up gays and people that claim to be gays. So if you have weird fancies about me, you should keep them to yourselves, no need to speak out loud. Unless that is what get you d-i-c-k up...


Nahhh I get it, Youre probably a 17 year old girl , real men talk with cold head, unlike immature girls ofcourse who used to grumble every trash words they could throw , spoiled brat hahaha. I suppose your period isnt over yet. Im sorry to bother you





Aqsuperman said:


> You might be careful about your choice of words. The last I heard, Indonesia beat up gays and people that claim to be gays. So if you have weird fancies about me, you should keep them to yourselves, no need to speak out loud. Unless that is what get you d-i-c-k up...
> 
> 
> 
> Lol do you want to compare about our occupation now? See this: It was YOU Indonesian that came to OUR thread, not the other way around. We are normally HERE. So as if we would let you rambling on and on about the might of Indonesian Army while dehumanizing us Vietnamese in this thread. For the record, I spend roughly 20 minutes/day browsing military forums and defense related pages as a hobby which means I could accomplish my militia duty AND my primary job no trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling proud to be an aggressor on the sea, eh? Japan used to act like that around 80 years ago as well. Guess what happen to them? Yeah, 2 nukes. Keep resorting to live ammunition and the next thing come to shove would be missiles. See if your pathetic AA guns and short range MANPADS could save Indonesian A-S-S from getting nicely TOASTED.
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian already tossed away TONS of money to combat threats from terrorists with zero effects. I would love to see how Indonesia could scramble money effectively in wartime conditions with missiles pounding their cities day and night.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, Indonesian F-16s are not hand-me-down jets either, they are just extremely old  By the way, did you just include trainer and light attack aircraft? The newest Hawks would be at least 16 year old by now, not to mention that it possesses laughable combat loads and service range. T-50 Golden Eagle? You use trainers for combat duty? They would be nice target practices at best.
> 
> 
> Once again, you guys need to know that Israeli simply have ample experience in air suppression which they obtain after suffering heavy losses in the Yom Kippur War. They have the tools AND the tactics. Indonesian nowadays?
> 
> -No ACTUAL SAMs so near zero experience in air suppression duty
> -No anti radiation missiles so you pilots need to rely on visual confirmation while targeting SAM sites, which is basically flying around until we shoot you down.
> 
> Keep laughing like that until we send back Indonesian pilots to Jakarta in body bags
> 
> 
> 
> Because we don't consider oilier as naval assets in peace time. In wartime, we could appropriate vessels from PetroVietam to support ships on extended missions.
> 
> 
> 
> So you guys are as good as the Brits? I doubt that as they killed Indonesian left and right with relative ease back in Indonesian National Revolution.
> 
> 
> 
> You conveniently forget that we have 6 cruise missile capable Kilo submarines. Considering the fact that the best ASW ships in Indonesian service are a fleet of rotten ex-East German Project 1331M, I would LOVE to see how Indonesian Navy fare against opposing subs that could throw missiles from more than 200 kilometers away. Of course, we would have to take into account the missile defense of Indonesia...Wait a minute: Your guys have SHIET in that aspect


Ohhh yes i love those kilo class subamrine joke......please kindly send your 50+++++++ cruise missile. But we both understand that it'll not happen at all . So sad
Claim to be military expert , regulary browse military forum LOL.What you seem to miss , is that our block15 F16's is now in the process of SLEP to increase its readiness 




And our T50 trainer will soon be equiped with AN/APG 67 multimode radar. 20 already ordered to equip 15 jets




I think its enough to deal with your old su 22 legacy fighters........

And one more thing miss aqsuperman, mind to tell you the Parchim's are not our most advanced ASW vessels. Our sigma's and f2000 deserve that honor. Our parchims are now mostly used as a gunboats and quasi coast guard and its the spearhead in the fight against illegal vietnamese fishing boats for the time being. At least until our 110M and 80M coast guard vessels are ready for service


----------



## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> Nahhh I get it, Youre probably a 17 year old girl , real men talk with cold head, unlike immature girls ofcourse who used to grumble every trash words they could throw , spoiled brat hahaha. I suppose your period isnt over yet. Im sorry to bother you



Nah, I'm definitely a matured man that bring out facts. Only girls (and boys that act like girl) imitate crying sounds like "uhuhuhuh" during arguments. Do you happen to know someone like that around? In my opinion, that guy seem like quite F-A-G. Wonder how his homophobic parents think oh him  



striver44 said:


> Ohhh yes i love those kilo class subamrine joke......please kindly send your 50+++++++ cruise missile. But we both understand that it'll not happen at all . So sad



So you Indonesian talk big about the capability of the Indonesia, claim that it would be simple to defeat Vietnam Armed Forces in a single stroke and threaten us with war. But now that I bring up the war talk, you said that "it'll not happen at all"? You have split personalities or what? Indonesia lack actual SAMs, no quality ASW vessels and most important of all, no experience in air defense suppression. Explain to me how these COLD. HARD. FACTS are jokes? 



striver44 said:


> Claim to be military expert , regulary browse military forum LOL.What you seem to miss , is that our block15 F16's is now in the process of SLEP to increase its readiness



It's my hobby to keep an out for defense development, that is all. I never claim to be an expert. It was your friend Xigwin that claim be an expert that spent "years researching the VPA".

Again, I rely on the US reports regrading the variants of F-16 they sell to customer all over. As far as I concern, Indonesian F-16s are ancient/worn out. For a period, I believe that Indonesian F-16s have to be grounded due to the lack of part caused by an arm embargo (likely from 2000 to 2005). Simply put, to be effective nowadays, F-16s have to reach Block 60 standard at the very least.



striver44 said:


> And our T50 trainer will soon be equiped with AN/APG 67 multimode radar. 20 already ordered to equip 15 jetsI think its enough to deal with your old su 22 legacy fighters



A trainer is still a trainer, no one in their right mind bring trainers to wars. Even the Korean who produce the FA-50, the most combat capable version of the Golden Eagle line, only use such aircraft in light attack role. Furthermore, VPAF Su-22s are mostly attackers nowadays so they only show up in favorable conditions. In air-to-air role, Vietnam Su-27/30 are the main players. Say a beef-up trainer could beat a purpose-design fighter? 



striver44 said:


> And one more thing miss aqsuperman, mind to tell you the Parchim's are not our most advanced ASW vessels. Our sigma's and f2000 deserve that honor. Our parchims are now mostly used as a gunboats and quasi coast guard and its the spearhead in the fight against illegal vietnamese fishing boats for the time being. At least until our 110M and 80M coast guard vessels are ready for service



OK, let take your words at face value (which I highly doubt their credibility), what are the best ASW weapons such ships have? Torpedoes launchers and torpedoes armed helicopters? Could they successfully detect targets and sunk submarines up to 200 kilometers away? Assuming that you guys use the newest version of Eurocopter AS565 Panther, the detection range is still wholly inadequate to neutralize cruise missile capable submarines. That is IF enemy jet fighter fail to notice such helicopter strolling around.


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## MacanJawa

please stop, what type vpa body armor use? using western style like CIRAS, FSBE plate carrier or russian style 6b43?

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## Viet

striver44 said:


> Nahhh I get it, Youre probably a 17 year old girl , real men talk with cold head, unlike immature girls ofcourse who used to grumble every trash words they could throw , spoiled brat hahaha. I suppose your period isnt over yet. Im sorry to bother you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ohhh yes i love those kilo class subamrine joke......please kindly send your 50+++++++ cruise missile. But we both understand that it'll not happen at all . So sad
> Claim to be military expert , regulary browse military forum LOL.What you seem to miss , is that our block15 F16's is now in the process of SLEP to increase its readiness
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And our T50 trainer will soon be equiped with AN/APG 67 multimode radar. 20 already ordered to equip 15 jets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think its enough to deal with your old su 22 legacy fighters........
> 
> And one more thing miss aqsuperman, mind to tell you the Parchim's are not our most advanced ASW vessels. Our sigma's and f2000 deserve that honor. Our parchims are now mostly used as a gunboats and quasi coast guard and its the spearhead in the fight against illegal vietnamese fishing boats for the time being. At least until our 110M and 80M coast guard vessels are ready for service


It’s not that easy. Unless you can prove you can fight, Indo military prowess only exists on paper. Buying military hardware, doing endless exercises, soldiers wearing fancy equipment prove nothing.

The US airforce fielded 207 B52 bombers and more than 2,000 fighter aircraft in the battle of Hanoi of 1972 but unable to break thru Vietnamese air defense. My friend, thinking some few Indo second hand aircrafts could do the job is more than funny.

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## Aqsuperman

MacanJawa said:


> please stop, what type vpa body armor use? using western style like CIRAS, FSBE plate carrier or russian style 6b43?



Depend on what units you want to talk about:
Naval Infantry use Israel-made vest and helmet












Regular Force use domestic mass-produced vests. 
















Finally, annual call up of reservist use captured American made flak jackets.






Depend on the latest report from SIPRI, it seem that the deal regarding Indian-made boats might experienced some hiccups.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Here is what I want you to do: Take those key words you list, put "Indonesia" next to them and search the phrase online. See how many result come up? P.S: I already did that so don't try to bullshiet your way out of this. In the case you are too lazy, here are some links
> 
> https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/indonesia-set-carry-out-14-unlawful-executions-tonight
> http://www.etan.org/news/2011/11faleopayne.htm
> https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/268976.pdf
> 
> "You can get arrested for not singing a song correctly" ? Oh wait, it sound familiar somehow...Oh that shiet just happen a couple of weeks ago in Indonesia. Can I claim that you guys also use "draconian laws" as you prosecute people for signing an anti-military song?
> 
> Yes, according to ME, Vietnam is PARADISE compared to Indonesia as NO ONE have died yet. There is a reason why murder is one the hideous crimes in modern laws. There is no way IN Hell a country that kill people indiscriminately could claim to have a "relatively strong human right". We keep going back and forth over this issue so try to get this this through your fcking thick skull of your.
> 
> YOU KILL PEOPLE. I HAVE PROOFS WITH THE WORD "KILL" IN THEM.
> WE DON'T KILL PEOPLE. HAVE PROOF THAT SHOW OTHERWISE? SHOW IT.
> 
> 
> 
> You have a hard time comprehending HUMAN words? I already said Vietnamese have the right to object government decision. We simply choose to do that through various channels before resorting to mass protects. In Indonesia? Sure, you could protest at will. It just that sometime, Indonesian soldiers + polices might shoot protesters to death, that's all.
> 
> Awesome "foundation of human rights" you got there.
> 
> 
> 
> War never changes. Experiences from an old war always provide good knowledge. But for an army that got massacred with a ratio between 6 :1 and 13 : 1, there is indeed nothing to learn from old veterans.
> 
> 
> 
> It seem that you are born stupid. See: How could you measure the effectiveness of an army? Do you measure by counting the number of exercise and the expense that go in it? Or you take a good look at its ability to maintain orders in the country?
> 
> VPA is inactive, lazy and simply act like a bum? Then why the heck is there is no terrorists around in Vietnam? We have more than 50 ethics, 8 major religions with dozens of conflicting thoughts, not to mention that we are located in a zone know for ongoing insurrection. So by your logic, Vietnam would have been ravaged by terrorists attacks for YEARS.
> 
> But guess what: VPA NEVER let an terrorist attack occur. Why? We simply fight things that have to be fought. Period. In Indonesia, the military focus on hosting exercise and bragging about their might. That is the REASON why for decades, Indonesian have to live alongside terrorists. Unless there are major changes, your children and their grandchildren would also have to live knowing that some jack A-S-S might blow them up in heartbeat, all because the military fail to set things right.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the annual parades of the New Iraqi Army before the ISIS attacks? They showcase top of the line weaponry, things that only cold hard dollars could afford. But once ISIS sweep over, the Army disinterested into the wind. Sure, Indonesia might have fancy stuff in the military but in the end, what Indonesian want is ORDER. An Army that fail to maintain ORDER means NOTHING.
> 
> Btw, I don't want to hear your fcking words, I want a god damn source that claim you guys "trounce" the Australia Air Force. Stimulation reports, flight logs, ..whatever, just throw me some proofs. Unless that it happens to belong solely to your IMAGINATION again as with the "rotten VPAF Su-27".
> 
> 
> 
> What happen in Christchurch, New Zealand is a typical "lone wolf" attack. While it's indeed possible to claim that it's a terrorist attack, I personally think that it's a mass shooting motivated by hatred against Muslim, similar to what happen in schools in the United States.
> 
> BUT, and this is a big BUT, what currently happen in Indonesia is far more different than New Zealand. You guys have ACTIVE insurrections. New Zealand? They have no rebel. That means the Indonesian army must perform better than the NZ at stopping terrorist attacks. Sadly, the performance of your military is simply a BIG disappointment. For the last 2 decades, how many months manage to pass by in Indonesia without a terrorist attack?
> 
> My idea stand the same: The duty of an army is to protect its people, maintain order and secure the land. An army that is REPEATEDLY fail to accomplish these tasks, no matter how "fancy" it appears, is an army of JOKERS. Period.


Sorry I just return from taking my "efficient" break.

Again can you defend your argument even the part where you indirectly defends slavery? 

Indonesians is not under an illusions that our country are perfect but you actually are under the illusion that your country are better than us. I don't need to give evidences & reasons that indonesia is a perfect human right model but you do & so far you have not convinces me that indonesia is worse than vietnam. 

The girl that got arrested actually sang praise for the army/country. She just sang it poorly. Makes you wonder what would happen if she actually sang something that insult the army & it was bad? 

Again using your argument that means vietnam AA defense can easily be bypassed considering the VPA cannot stop the american from bombing the ever living shit out of you during operation rolling thunder. So yeah thanks for the vote of confidence. 

Again your argument is flawed. There's a thing called a negative peace. Vietnam is perfect example of negative peace. Peace at the expense of justice & freedom. While vietnam maybe peaceful in the surface its not a real peace. That's why vietnam rank below us in the peace index.The job of the army is not to maintain order. That's the job of the police. So again using public order as a measuring stick for the armed forces is extremely flawed that nobody serious ever uses it for actual argument. Go ahead use it somewhere else everybody will laugh at you. Even if its so there are far more worse offenders. 

The VPA haven't seen combat since the 70s & they lack modern equipments, techniques & training to actually make them effective in 21st century warfare. So yeah its safe to assume you guys sucks compared to ours. 

FYI insurrection in indonesia is mostly peaceful or low level. The recent incident in papua being the only few outlier.


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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Sorry I just return from taking my "efficient" break.



Very efficient indeed Have you take an MRI scan to detect any potential tumor in your brain yet?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Again can you defend your argument even the part where you indirectly defends slavery?



We are not slaves and we don't approve slavery. "Indirectly" equal speculation and yes, it's IMPOSSIBLE to discuss about that without SOURCES. Speaking of which, care to show the proof that Indonesian pilot "trounce" their Australasian counterpart in Pitch Black please. I have been waiting for that for a fcking long time.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Indonesians is not under an illusions that our country are perfect but you actually are under the illusion that your country are better than us. I don't need to give evidences & reasons that indonesia is a perfect human right model but you do & so far you have not convinces me that indonesia is worse than vietnam.



Again, we have to think back again about the way we process information. I already gave you tons of evidences about the fact that Indonesian polices + soldiers are too eager to pull the trigger compared to their Vietnamese colleagues. Remember who bring up the issue about human right first? Yeah, it's you with the "relative strong human right".

You brain simply refuse to trust anything that remotely indicate Indonesia fall behind Vietnam in human right. Everything happen in Vietnam also happen in Indonesia. However, some extreme things that only happen in Indonesia don't happen in Vietnam. That alone prove Vietnam to be better than Indonesia.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The girl that got arrested actually sang praise for the army/country. She just sang it poorly. Makes you wonder what would happen if she actually sang something that insult the army & it was bad?



You are speculating AGAIN. Work by that logic, Mr. Robert only sang a makeup song dated back in the 1990s. Imagine if he sing a song that actually cover current situation. Would he then receive far harsher punishments?



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Again using your argument that means vietnam AA defense can easily be bypassed considering the VPA cannot stop the american from bombing the ever living shit out of you during operation rolling thunder. So yeah thanks for the vote of confidence.



Well I have nothing against the fact that US bombers and fighter-bombers inflicted heavy losses on our infrastructure back in the Vietnam War. US was a world SUPERPOWER back then then and still one now after all. But once again, you FORGOT some details: US Air Force LOST a total 922 aircraft in that operation which last for nearly a year and that is when they already had EXPERTISE in AIR-SUPPRESSION sorties. They employed anti-radiation missiles , extensive ECW supports, experienced pilots...

So is the current Indonesia air force possesses anything like the US Air Force regarding air defense suppression? YEA, A BIG "NO". Yes, you could quote me that Vietnam Air Defense would have no trouble blasting Indonesian jets out of the sky. You guys have nothing to actively locate, target and destroy SAMs so fat chance your jets could survive. The VPAF, on the other hand, could destroy enemy SAMs without troubles using Kh-31P anti-radiation missiles and pods optimized for air-suppression. The moment Indonesian soldiers turn on their radars, they would feel the chill of the Underworld. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> Again your argument is flawed. There's a thing called a negative peace. Vietnam is perfect example of negative peace. Peace at the expense of justice & freedom. While vietnam maybe peaceful in the surface its not a real peace



That is a great way to dance around the words. Sorry but ALL COUNTRIES in the world recognize that Vietnam is a peaceful country IN EVERY REGARD. They don't have to issues terrorist warnings while their citizens visit Vietnam. You think it's possible to maintain peace by taking away people freedom and justice? No, that create anger and anger lead to retaliation (a.k.a terrorists attacks). Considering the fact Vietnam witness ZERO terrorists attacks so far, it's a solid proof that Vietnamese have no significant issues with their rights.

Indonesia? Yea, fat chance that people feel satisfied as they constantly live in fear of terrorist attacks.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> That's why vietnam rank below us in the peace index



There are more way to judged how peaceful a country is beside the Global Peace Index. For instance: Travel Warning in US Department of State. Indonesia possesses an "excellent" record in the eyes of the Americans by the way 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The job of the army is not to maintain order. That's the job of the police. So again using public order as a measuring stick for the armed forces is extremely flawed that nobody serious ever uses it for actual argument. Go ahead use it somewhere else everybody will laugh at you. Even if its so there are far more worse offenders.



So far, only you that claim people would laugh at me. How could an Army expect to protect its people if it fail to maintain order in turbulent times? The fact that you guys send soldiers to Papua instead of additional policeman prove that Indonesia intend to use troops to restore order in the region. That also means failure in containing terrorists attacks lies largely on the shoulder of the Indonesian Armed Forces. Your Kopassus also lies under the jurisdiction the Ministry of Defense, no? 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> The VPA haven't seen combat since the 70s & they lack modern equipments, techniques & training to actually make them effective in 21st century warfare. So yeah its safe to assume you guys sucks compared to ours.



And that you got that from "years of researching" the VPA? Sure, I have no issues admitting that Indonesia got more stuff compared to our troops. However, in modern wars, things would be decided by certain weapons. I already brought out proofs that show the weakness of the Indonesian army in anti-submarine warfare, air-defense suppression and surface-to-air missiles. So your "assumption" sound fcking unbelievable.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> FYI insurrection in indonesia is mostly peaceful or low level. The recent incident in papua being the only few outlier.



Insurrections are never "peaceful", mind your choice of words  Do you know how many terrorists attack happen in Indonesia in 2018 alone? No expert claim the situation in Indonesia to be a "low-level insurrection" as that would be a lie.

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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Sorry I just return from taking my "efficient" break.
> 
> Again can you defend your argument even the part where you indirectly defends slavery?
> 
> Indonesians is not under an illusions that our country are perfect but you actually are under the illusion that your country are better than us. I don't need to give evidences & reasons that indonesia is a perfect human right model but you do & so far you have not convinces me that indonesia is worse than vietnam.
> 
> The girl that got arrested actually sang praise for the army/country. She just sang it poorly. Makes you wonder what would happen if she actually sang something that insult the army & it was bad?
> 
> Again using your argument that means vietnam AA defense can easily be bypassed considering the VPA cannot stop the american from bombing the ever living shit out of you during operation rolling thunder. So yeah thanks for the vote of confidence.
> 
> Again your argument is flawed. There's a thing called a negative peace. Vietnam is perfect example of negative peace. Peace at the expense of justice & freedom. While vietnam maybe peaceful in the surface its not a real peace. That's why vietnam rank below us in the peace index.The job of the army is not to maintain order. That's the job of the police. So again using public order as a measuring stick for the armed forces is extremely flawed that nobody serious ever uses it for actual argument. Go ahead use it somewhere else everybody will laugh at you. Even if its so there are far more worse offenders.
> 
> The VPA haven't seen combat since the 70s & they lack modern equipments, techniques & training to actually make them effective in 21st century warfare. So yeah its safe to assume you guys sucks compared to ours.
> 
> FYI insurrection in indonesia is mostly peaceful or low level. The recent incident in papua being the only few outlier.


War is a serious business. Winning a war requires rather IQ than military hardware. Does Indonesia have any known military generals or leaders? Fyi in case you haven’t noticed, Vietnam has many world famous military leaders as Vo Nguyen Giap. He is even famous in the West with victory against France and America. Or going back Hai Ba Trung, Ngo Quyen, Le Loi or Trung Hung Dao. The army led by Hung Dao defeated the 500,000 men Mongol army including the entire annihilation of the invasion fleet at Bach Dang.

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## cochine

SUAV will be provided for VN navy.

















http://soha.vn/bien-phong-viet-nam-duoc-trang-bi-suav-rq-11-raven-cua-my-20190320144940164.htm

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## Viet

Vietnam metallurgy Institut successfully makes a carbon composite material that withstand a heat of 3,000 Celsius. Such material can be used in satellite parts.







https://www.tienphong.vn/cong-nghe/...anh-cong-vat-lieu-che-tao-ve-tinh-1391632.tpo

Made in Vietnam: Gk3 assault rifle
Available on sale for exports

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## GraveDigger388

Viet said:


> Vietnam metallurgy Institut successfully makes a carbon composite material that withstand a heat of 3,000 Celsius. Such material can be used in satellite parts.
> 
> View attachment 548248
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tienphong.vn/cong-nghe/...anh-cong-vat-lieu-che-tao-ve-tinh-1391632.tpo
> 
> Made in Vietnam: Gk3 assault rifle
> Available on sale for exports
> 
> 
> View attachment 548251


Any specs on the rifle?


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## cochine

Trung Sisters in ancient history of Vietnam.











pls reference to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trưng_Sisters

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## Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> Any specs on the rifle?


There are two versions: Gk1 (top) and Gk3 (below) with grenate launcher.







The rifles are a hybrid of Israeli rifles Galil ACE and Galil AKM. The military wanted a weapon that combines the best features of two Galil variants. I think the Israeli would not be amused  
when they know we copy their technology and develop a weapon and sell the rifles to export customers. Ah.. firing speed: 700 rounds per minute.

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## GraveDigger388

Viet said:


> There are two versions: Gk1 (top) and Gk3 (below) with grenate launcher.
> 
> View attachment 548324
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles are a hybrid of Israeli rifles Galil ACE and Galil AKM. The military wanted a weapon that combines the best features of two Galil variants. I think the Israeli would not be amused
> when they know we copy their technology and develop a weapon and sell the rifles to export customers. Ah.. firing speed: 700 rounds per minute.
> 
> View attachment 548330


Caliber and firing modes?


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## Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> Caliber and firing modes?


It is said the rifles have the body of Galil ACE for compactness. The gun barrel comes from Galil AKM with 415 mm in length. Both are Vietnam own developments. That allows the projectile to gain higher velocity and higher kinetic energy. Rifles can fire both NATO round variants.

Interested of buying?

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## GraveDigger388

Viet said:


> It is said the rifles have the body of Galil ACE for compactness. The gun barrel comes from Galil AKM with 415 mm in length. Both are Vietnam own developments. That allows the projectile to gain higher velocity and higher kinetic energy. Rifles can fire both NATO round variants.
> 
> Interested of buying?


Nah, just interested in knowing. More guns more fun.

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## Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> Nah, just interested in knowing. More guns more fun.


Ah ok. Vietnam is said to work on an improved version of Ak200 that could become standard future assault rifle for Vietnamese army.


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## Aqsuperman

Turn out HQ-015 just out for a patrol while HQ-016 head for Malay and possibly HQ-012 as well.

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## GraveDigger388

Viet said:


> Ah ok. Vietnam is said to work on an improved version of Ak200 that could become standard future assault rifle for Vietnamese army.
> 
> 
> View attachment 548434


AK-200 is already a beast. What could be improved, I wonder...


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## Viet

Surprise: Vietnamese version of mother of all bombs 

Kab500

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## warzone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Sorry I just return from taking my "efficient" break.
> 
> Again can you defend your argument even the part where you indirectly defends slavery?
> 
> Indonesians is not under an illusions that our country are perfect but you actually are under the illusion that your country are better than us. I don't need to give evidences & reasons that indonesia is a perfect human right model but you do & so far you have not convinces me that indonesia is worse than vietnam.
> 
> The girl that got arrested actually sang praise for the army/country. She just sang it poorly. Makes you wonder what would happen if she actually sang something that insult the army & it was bad?
> 
> Again using your argument that means vietnam AA defense can easily be bypassed considering the VPA cannot stop the american from bombing the ever living shit out of you during operation rolling thunder. So yeah thanks for the vote of confidence.
> 
> Again your argument is flawed. There's a thing called a negative peace. Vietnam is perfect example of negative peace. Peace at the expense of justice & freedom. While vietnam maybe peaceful in the surface its not a real peace. That's why vietnam rank below us in the peace index.The job of the army is not to maintain order. That's the job of the police. So again using public order as a measuring stick for the armed forces is extremely flawed that nobody serious ever uses it for actual argument. Go ahead use it somewhere else everybody will laugh at you. Even if its so there are far more worse offenders.
> 
> The VPA haven't seen combat since the 70s & they lack modern equipments, techniques & training to actually make them effective in 21st century warfare. So yeah its safe to assume you guys sucks compared to ours.
> 
> FYI insurrection in indonesia is mostly peaceful or low level. The recent incident in papua being the only few outlier.



You got all info wrong, smarty cook @Reashot Xigwin !!! VPA last major combat experience date to 1989 in Cambodia, today they are still officers with combat experience in the forces. VPA Elites units were still operating in Cambodia till 2000s to support the Cambodian army and VPA units also help the Lao army to crushed the Hmong rebels in 2000s.

Guys reading books like you don't understand that the training are based on combat experience and VPA have huge knowledge (combat, logistic, medical and field cooking like your family jobs in Indo army). The US, Canada, Russia and others are still training their troops with the combat experiences earned from WW2. Technology is great but you can't win war only with planes and missiles, you need boots on the ground to occupy the territory. Infantry combat training didn't change much over decades (beside inserting new tech gadgets over the years), unless one day we will fight in the space.

Fighting VPA on mainland will be a much bigger challenge and impossible task for your Indo army. And defending your 17 500 islands with your actual Indo army is an impossible task... An enemy will just need to occupy few major islands and it over, Indo army have their ressources stretch way to much...

By the way, Indo army is not that modern, only few new toys to defend 17 500 islands. Hope with the new toys, You guys will not run away from the SMALL AUSTRALIAN ARMY again ..

You still didn't answer my question about RATIO, the US VS Iraqi in 1991 (292 US Dead vs 25 000-50 000 Iraqi) and 2003(200 US dead vs 13 500-45000 iraqi)....So the ratio of VN war wasn't so bad after all.

the Americans lost 3,744 planes, 5,607 helicopters and 578 UAVs . ANd South Viet NAm lost 1,018 aircraft and helicopters..Not bad hein? The US did *580,000* bombing missions, try to stop that smarty cook @Reashot Xigwin

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## Viet

The US as an enemy is a thing of the past. Turkey is kicked out of F35 fighter jet program. I wonder if it’s technically politically feasible for Vietnam to participate? The US seeks a new partner to replace the Turks. Donald Trump once again at last visit urged Vietnam to buy US weapons. Financially it’s feasible. F35 cost per piece slowly sinks to the level of Russia fighter jet.

Two F35 squadrons would be sufficient. Participating in F35 production would be a major push for defense industry.

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## KAL-EL

Viet said:


> The US as an enemy is a thing of the past. Turkey is kicked out of F35 fighter jet program. I wonder if it’s technically politically feasible for Vietnam to participate? The US seeks a new partner to replace the Turks. Donald Trump once again at last visit urged Vietnam to buy US weapons. Financially it’s feasible. F35 cost per piece slowly sinks to the level of Russia fighter jet.
> 
> Two F35 squadrons would be sufficient. Participating in F35 production would be a major push for defense industry.
> 
> 
> View attachment 548700




If it was up to me (which it obviously is not) It would happen.

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## Viva_Viet

KAL-EL said:


> If it was up to me (which it obviously is not) It would happen.


Actually F 35 is a stupid plane and Russian radar can detect it easily, no superior tech on that usless F 35 .


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## KAL-EL

Viva_Viet said:


> Actually F 35 is a stupid plane and Russian radar can detect it easily, no superior tech on that usless F 35 .



The F-35 would be an extremely major upgrade to the Vietnamese Air Force.

Vietnamese government would certainly not call it a stupid plane, and would gladly except a squadron or two

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## Viva_Viet

KAL-EL said:


> The F-35 would be an extremely major upgrade to the Vietnamese Air Force.


Actually Russian jet fighters r good enough. Buying US products and weapons are just for balancing the US-VN trade.

But I dont think US will sell F 35 to VN cos they worry that VN may send F 35 tech to Russia even F 35 tech has nothing special.

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## Viet

KAL-EL said:


> The F-35 would be an extremely major upgrade to the Vietnamese Air Force.
> 
> Vietnamese government would certainly not call it a stupid plane, and would gladly except a squadron or two


There are some sensibility in Vietnam but I think having stealth fighter jet as F35 that can fly undetected into enemy airspace is pretty nice. Su30 and Su35 (if the airforce buys it) can’t.









Viva_Viet said:


> Actually Russian jet fighters r good enough. Buying US products and weapons are just for balancing the US-VN trade.
> 
> But I dont think US will sell F 35 to VN cos they worry that VN may send F 35 tech to Russia even F 35 tech has nothing special.


We buy F35, the US buys VN cars and smartphones. Trade deficit will be balanced. Win win.We won’t reveal US tech to Russia. Pretty stupid if we do so.

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## Aqsuperman

KAL-EL said:


> The F-35 would be an extremely major upgrade to the Vietnamese Air Force.
> 
> Vietnamese government would certainly not call it a stupid plane, and would gladly except a squadron or two



Well F-35 is indeed a great plane to have but for the time being, I dare say the first US-made aircraft to join the VPAF fleet of aircraft would be a trainer (Texan). Regarding future purchases, chances are Hanoi is aiming for C-130, P-3 Orion and so on. In the case we do buy jet fighter, I bet my money on F-16. 

Russian Knight pit stop in Vietnam

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> View attachment 548771
> 
> 
> 
> We buy F35, the US buys VN cars and smartphones. Trade deficit will be balanced. Win win.We won’t reveal US tech to Russia. Pretty stupid if we do so.


US dont trust VN, so she wont sell and we dont need F 35 anyway.

US without CN like in 1979 also cant harm VN as we control the oil shipping from Sing to Guam passing throught SCS ( east VN sea).


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> US dont trust VN, so she wont sell and we dont need F 35 anyway.
> 
> US without CN like in 1979 also cant harm VN as we control the oil shipping from Sing to Guam passing throught SCS ( east VN sea).


Ok trust is a big word. Let’s say everyone acts on own national egoistic interest. Despite different ideology, both VN and US share the same interest in East Sea. Having stealth capacity will enable Vietnam airforce to carry out bombing missions deep inside enemy territory. Not necessarily a realistic scenario but having prepared for the worst will deter someone’s ill intentions.

My feeling is, the Turkey under Erdogan is nearing the point of no return, the US will soon decide which partner she will pick to replace them in the F35 program. I think our chance is 1/10.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Ok trust is a big word. Let’s say everyone acts on own national egoistic interest. Despite different ideology, both VN and US share the same interest in East Sea. Having stealth capacity will enable Vietnam airforce to carry out bombing missions deep inside enemy territory. Not necessarily a realistic scenario but having prepared for the worst will deter someone’s ill intentions.
> 
> My feeling is, the Turkey under Erdogan is nearing the point of no return, the US will soon decide which partner she will pick to replace them in the F35 program. I think our chance is 1/10.


Actually VN's biggest enemy is US cos only US is strong enough to make trouble for VN now. CN PLA is just a joke as PLA generals r very stupid and they dont have any tactic better than human wave attack, not mentioning that CN only control 10-12% in SCS( east VN sea) cos PLAN suck, so they r not our threat there,too.

So, we dont need F 35 to stop stupid PLA human wave attack. VN F-35 will mainly be used to attack US war ships in SCS ( east VN sea) if US want war wt VN again. and of course US wont sell F 35 to VN


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Actually VN's biggest enemy is US cos only US is strong enough to make trouble for VN now. CN PLA is just a joke as PLA generals r very stupid and they dont have any tactic better than human wave attack, not mentioning that CN only control 10-12% in SCS( east VN sea) cos PLAN suck, so they r not our threat there,too.
> 
> So, we dont need F 35 to stop stupid PLA human wave attack. VN F-35 will mainly be used to attack US war ships in SCS ( east VN sea) if US want war wt VN again. and of course US wont sell F 35 to VN


We lost Paracels. We lost parts of Spratlys. We will lose more if overestimate our strength.

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## Viet

A new interesting development

CA18 flying gun

Basically a UAV with a mounted gun, optical tracking, GPS guided, weight 22 kg.

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## 925boy

Viva_Viet said:


> Actually VN's biggest enemy is US cos only US is strong enough to make trouble for VN now. CN PLA is just a joke as PLA generals r very stupid and they dont have any tactic better than human wave attack, not mentioning that CN only control 10-12% in SCS( east VN sea) cos PLAN suck, so they r not our threat there,too.
> 
> So, we dont need F 35 to stop stupid PLA human wave attack. VN F-35 will mainly be used to attack US war ships in SCS ( east VN sea) if US want war wt VN again. and of course US wont sell F 35 to VN


And why would China *need human wave attack* with all the weapons it currently has? That makes no sense. While China is not a peer to US military wise, China is still gunning for the US position in the military sphere. If China is gunning for US position, my logical assumption is that China can already give a strong blow to most regional militaries, including Vietnam imo. @Viet is 100% correct to say VIetnam should not overestimate itself. China can overwhelm you in multiple ways.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> We lost Paracels. We lost parts of Spratlys. We will lose more if overestimate our strength.


We lost Paracel when North VN must focus on taking Sout VN in 1974. We lost parts of Spratly in 1988 when our troops must stay in Las-Cam to fight against Thai-Pol Pot wt full support from CN-US, and our economy was so bad in 1988 due to US sanction.

Now, we have no more problem wt Pol pot, no more US sanction to VN, we can focus 100% on SCS ( east VN sea) issue.CN PLA now just a cheap joke, thats why CN lost i oil rig conflict i 2014.



925boy said:


> And why would China *need human wave attack* with all the weapons it currently has? That makes no sense. While China is not a peer to US military wise, China is still gunning for the US position in the military sphere. If China is gunning for US position, my logical assumption is that China can already give a strong blow to most regional militaries, including Vietnam imo. @Viet is 100% correct to say VIetnam should not overestimate itself. China can overwhelm you in multiple ways.


VN also have better weapons, not mentioning if VN cover SCS( east VN sea) wt seamines, then CN economy will collapse cos CN merchant ships from Middle east, Africa, Singapore cant pass through.

Sea mines r enough to destroy CN economy, thats why CN say SCS( east VN sea) is her core interest even when she only control 10-12% there due to her army suck.

CN army is always suck since ancient time.only US is a real threat to VN.


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## GraveDigger388

Viva_Viet said:


> We lost Paracel when North VN must focus on taking Sout VN in 1974. We lost parts of Spratly in 1988 when our troops must stay in Las-Cam to fight against Thai-Pol Pot wt full support from CN-US, and our economy was so bad in 1988 due to US sanction.
> 
> Now, we have no more problem wt Pol pot, no more US sanction to VN, we can focus 100% on SCS ( east VN sea) issue.CN PLA now just a cheap joke, thats why CN lost i oil rig conflict i 2014.
> 
> 
> VN also have better weapons, not mentioning if VN cover SCS( east VN sea) wt seamines, then CN economy will collapse cos CN merchant ships from Middle east, Africa, Singapore cant pass through.
> 
> Sea mines r enough to destroy CN economy, thats why CN say SCS( east VN sea) is her core interest even when she only control 10-12% there due to her army suck.
> 
> CN army is always suck since ancient time.only US is a real threat to VN.


Taking down a country's economy by blocking their water trading route isn't as easy as you depicted. Especially concerning countries like China. 

Just take a look at Nazi Germany's Wolfpack. They sunk many ships, yes, but they lost all the same. And that was half a century ago.

Not to mention China's military. At current state their strength surpass every single SEA country's. Granted, war can be won via political means, but still....let's not instigate. Just be defensive for now.

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## Viva_Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> Taking down a country's economy by blocking their water trading route isn't as easy as you depicted. Especially concerning countries like China.
> 
> Just take a look at Nazi Germany's Wolfpack. They sunk many ships, yes, but they lost all the same. And that was half a century ago.
> 
> Not to mention China's military. At current state their strength surpass every single SEA country's. Granted, war can be won via political means, but still....let's not instigate. Just be defensive for now.


Whatever, CN is always cheap in VNese eyes when they only know human wave tactic. CN just lost in 2014 conflict,too. Show that CN will win in the next VN-CN conflict before boasting


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## GraveDigger388

Viva_Viet said:


> Whatever, CN is always cheap in VNese eyes when they only know human wave tactic. CN just lost in 2014 conflict,too. Show that CN will win in the next VN-CN conflict before boasting


See? That's the problem with your judgement. Just because you think something or someone sucks doesn't mean it does. Opinion =/= Facts. I don't like what China does in SCS as well. But I'm also not a chauvinist.

Hey Aq @Aqsuperman, whatdya think?


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> We lost Paracel when North VN must focus on taking Sout VN in 1974. We lost parts of Spratly in 1988 when our troops must stay in Las-Cam to fight against Thai-Pol Pot wt full support from CN-US, and our economy was so bad in 1988 due to US sanction.
> 
> Now, we have no more problem wt Pol pot, no more US sanction to VN, we can focus 100% on SCS ( east VN sea) issue.CN PLA now just a cheap joke, thats why CN lost i oil rig conflict i 2014.
> 
> 
> VN also have better weapons, not mentioning if VN cover SCS( east VN sea) wt seamines, then CN economy will collapse cos CN merchant ships from Middle east, Africa, Singapore cant pass through.
> 
> Sea mines r enough to destroy CN economy, thats why CN say SCS( east VN sea) is her core interest even when she only control 10-12% there due to her army suck.
> 
> CN army is always suck since ancient time.only US is a real threat to VN.


Things are not that easy bro. It’s good to be confident but consider this: South Vietnam has better warships with more firepower but lost Paracels because she underestimated the Chinese Navy, hence unprepared, in addition not knowing the Chinese were ready for a full scale war. Without the backing of the US Navy with nuclear umbrella, South Vietnam could not risk it. The US was about to withdraw from Vietnam. That’s a hard lesson.

Never underestimate the enemy, calculate the unknowns, make sure at next time we have the backing of a superpower.



GraveDigger388 said:


> Taking down a country's economy by blocking their water trading route isn't as easy as you depicted. Especially concerning countries like China.
> 
> Just take a look at Nazi Germany's Wolfpack. They sunk many ships, yes, but they lost all the same. And that was half a century ago.
> 
> Not to mention China's military. At current state their strength surpass every single SEA country's. Granted, war can be won via political means, but still....let's not instigate. Just be defensive for now.


Vietnam can’t do alone. Let’s assume the US won’t intervene, only together with Japan and India we could inflict serious damage, bringing China economy to a standstill by sea mines, submarines and land/sea attack missiles. Such scenario can be interestingly read in fiction book as Shattered Trident. But there is a risk of a nuclear war.

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## Viva_Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> See? That's the problem with your judgement. Just because you think something or someone sucks doesn't mean it does. Opinion =/= Facts. I don't like what China does in SCS as well. But I'm also not a chauvinist.
> 
> Hey Aq @Aqsuperman, whatdya think?


CN economy is falling and this time, its CN ,not VN, is under US sanction.

Your country never get a real US sanction, so u guys simply dont know how hard it is ( just look at the economy of N.Korea, Iran for some ideas abt US sanction). CN economy is just too bad now, Xi is very worry abt it and even set the growth for 2019 is just 6% ( 2018 is 6,8%). Wt a very bad economy situation like that, CN simply cant be a threat to VN.



Viet said:


> Things are not that easy bro. It’s good to be confident but consider this: South Vietnam has better warships with more firepower but lost Paracels because she underestimated the Chinese Navy, hence unprepared, in addition not knowing the Chinese were ready for a full scale war. Without the backing of the US Navy with nuclear umbrella, South Vietnam could not risk it. The US was about to withdraw from Vietnam. That’s a hard lesson.
> 
> Never underestimate the enemy, calculate the unknowns, make sure at next time we have the backing of a superpower.
> 
> 
> Vietnam can’t do alone. Let’s assume the US won’t intervene, only together with Japan and India we could inflict serious damage, bringing China economy to a standstill by sea mines, submarines and land/sea attack missiles. Such scenario can be interestingly read in fiction book as Shattered Trident. But there is a risk of a nuclear war.
> 
> 
> View attachment 548964


Thats not underestimate the enemy, its just a correct analyst abt what will happen.

As u know, I always say that CN economy will be in chaos in 2023 due to US sanction. So when CN is in chaos and finnly collapse, then US may turn VN to the next enemy after CN collapse like Soviet.

When VN may become US next target, then we never can buy F35. Thats it.


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> CN economy is falling and this time, its CN ,not VN, is under US sanction.
> 
> Your country never get a real US sanction, so u guys simply dont know how hard it is ( just look at the economy of N.Korea, Iran for some ideas abt US sanction). CN economy is just too bad now, Xi is very worry abt it and even set the growth for 2019 is just 6% ( 2018 is 6,8%). Wt a very bad economy situation like that, CN simply cant be a threat to VN.
> 
> 
> Thats not underestimate the enemy, its just a correct analyst abt what will happen.
> 
> As u know, I always say that CN economy will be in chaos in 2023 due to US sanction. So when CN is in chaos and finnly collapse, then US may turn VN to the next enemy after CN collapse like Soviet.
> 
> When VN may become US next target, then we never can buy F35. Thats it.


The French attacked Vietnam because they wanted to loot our country and people. The Chinese burned our cities to the ground, killing the last man last woman last kid they encountered because they hate everything Vietnamese. The US intervened in Vietnam because they wanted to stop communism. You see different motives?

I don’t think the US will pose a security threat again. Nor the French.
In contrast the Chinese hate Vietnam because of their racism so I don’t think that will ever change.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> The French attacked Vietnam because they wanted to loot our country and people. The Chinese burned our cities to the ground, killing the last man last woman last kid they encountered because they hate everything Vietnamese. The US intervened in Vietnam because they wanted to stop communism. You see different motives?
> 
> I don’t think the US will pose a security threat again. Nor the French.
> In contrast the Chinese hate Vietnam because of their racism so I don’t think that will ever change.


US intervened in Vietnam because she wanted to sell all weapons still in stock after WW2 ( S.VN soldiers were forced to use ww2 guns like M1 Garand against N.VN using Ak 47 in the early time of VN war )

Not mentioning SCS( east VN sea) is also very important to Guam, SK, JP and US also wanna control it.


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## Viet

Ok more pictures of visit of Russia’s Su30SM fighter jets to Vietnam. Such event costs lots of money, the Russians apparently hope Vietnam to buy more aircraft.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> Ok more pictures of visit of Russia’s Su30SM fighter jets to Vietnam. Such event costs lots of money, the Russians apparently hope Vietnam to buy more aircraft.
> 
> 
> View attachment 549023
> 
> 
> View attachment 549025
> 
> 
> View attachment 549051
> 
> 
> View attachment 549048



Just a stop before going to LIMA 2019

https://www.google.com/amp/tass.com/defense/1050210/amp


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## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> Just a stop before going to LIMA 2019
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/tass.com/defense/1050210/amp


Ah ok but I think they hope someone countries will buy the jets.


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam Gerard in Malaysia for LIMA 2019


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## TenLua

I have finally figured out why they’re so anal on here. Loiterer of this site are usually extremist. Extreme nationalism. Extreme patrioticism (is there such a word?). 

The antidote for your fuckery is Marijuana. There is no question.


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## Viet

*China tries to forget, but its war with Vietnam ended with a US victory. Just look at Trump*

The 40th anniversary of the Sino-Vietnamese war is passing largely unnoticed in China, where all commemorative activity has been banned
But Vietnam bitterly recalls the conflict that tore two ideological allies apart – and sent Hanoi into American arms




Cary Huang 

Published: 10:30am, 3 Mar, 2019


The 40th anniversary of the Sino-Vietnamese War went unnoticed in China, as no commemorative activities were allowed in the country – not even any Vietnam-related posts on social media.

But this was not the case in Vietnam 
as state-run media and newspapers published in-depth features and critical commentaries recalling the fierce fight from February 17 to March 16, 1979. An editorial in _The Voice of Vietnam_, a Communist Party mouthpiece, called the war a “righteous … struggle to defend the motherland” and condemned China’s “brutal and illogical invasion”.
China should not forget this history. The anniversary provides a good chance for reflection, as many young Chinese lost their lives in the war – also in the name of defending their motherland.

Back then Beijing made no secret of its motivation to teach an “ungrateful” former ally a lesson, after Hanoi apparently switched its alliance to the Soviet Union by signing the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation with China’s chief rival at the time in November 1978.





A Vietnamese man prays at a rally marking the 38th anniversary of the border war with China, at Hoan Kiem lake in Hanoi, Vietnam. Photo: EPA


The Sino-Vietnamese war was also widely thought of as an effort to stop Hanoi’s campaign to oust the China-backed Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia
, which had taken the form of an invasion of Phnom Penh. If so, the Chinese campaign was somewhere between pointless and a complete failure, as it failed to achieve either goal. Vietnamese troops remained in Cambodia until the late 1980s, while Beijing-backed Pol Pot was ousted and the rebels were forced to retreat to Cambodia’s remote western region. Hanoi went on to forge an even closer alliance with Moscow as a result of China’s invasion. Nevertheless, the war had a lasting impact not only on the two countries’ relationship, but also on China’s relations with China’s neighbours. It reshaped geopolitics in the region, and its legacy endures today.

The short-lived but bloody military conflict took a heavy toll in terms of casualties as well as economic losses for both countries. While Beijing and Hanoi have failed to provide full details, Western estimates count 28,000 dead Chinese soldiers and a further 43,000 wounded, while putting the Vietnamese casualties at 20,000 to 35,000 – many of them civilians because the war was fought exclusively on Vietnamese soil.






Chinese frontier soldiers at Laoshan in Yunnan province during the Sino-Vietnamese War. File photo
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The painful chapter completely destroyed the countries’ traditional friendship, nurtured by their communist founding fathers Mao Zedong and Ho Chi Minh and once described by Chairman Mao Zedong “as close as lips and teeth”.

That friendship was built on a shared ideology and forged by China’s support of Vietnam during the decades it spent at war, first with France and then with the United States, for which Beijing provided billions of dollars in aid and sent about 320,000 soldiers to help its ally.

The Sino-Vietnamese war undermined China’s image as a peace-loving nation and raised suspicions about the non-hegemonic diplomacy it had long claimed to have.

*Flying distance for a dictator, neutral on nukes: why Vietnam is perfect for Trump-Kim summit*
Many nations were horrified to see 600,000 Chinese troops cross the 600km border into Vietnam’s six northernmost provinces, just to teach a lesson to an “unthankful” former ally.

The skirmish sowed a seed of hatred and cultivated distrust between the two peoples. The Vietnamese see their war against the Chinese as comparable to their battles after the French and American invasions, as they fought to safeguard their national independence.

It also resulted in continued spats along the armed border throughout the 1980s. There was also further conflict in territorial disputes, including a 1988 naval battle over a contested reef in the South China Sea, before the two sides formally ended tensions and restored full diplomatic relations in 1991.





Chinese veterans commemorate the 40th anniversary of the politically sensitive Sino-Vietnamese border war. Photo: Weibo


This friction also rekindled memories of a historical enmity dating back millennia. Chinese incursions into what is today Vietnamese territory go back as far as 1BC. For centuries, many of China’s smaller neighbours were subjects to its imperial rule.

The most unwanted legacy of the war is that it helped reshape today’s geopolitics in the region, pushing a former comrade in arms into the embrace of what was once their former common foe – the US.

Without that bloody war, Vietnam and China would be close diplomatic allies and ideological bedfellows, two of the world’s five surviving communist-ruled and self-declared socialist states, which also include North Korea, Laos and Cuba.

Hanoi’s diplomatic relations with Washington have arguably never been better. US President 
Donald Trump
s choice of Hanoi as the venue of his second summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un
– Trump’s second visit to Vietnam since taking office two years ago – speaks volumes. ■

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## Aqsuperman

Marksmans from Vietnam People Army in AASAM (Australian Army Skill at Arms Meet)

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Marksmans from Vietnam People Army in AASAM (Australian Army Skill at Arms Meet)


they wear helmets that were not seen before. Western army styles?


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## striver44

Viet said:


> War is a serious business. Winning a war requires rather IQ than military hardware. Does Indonesia have any known military generals or leaders? Fyi in case you haven’t noticed, Vietnam has many world famous military leaders as Vo Nguyen Giap. He is even famous in the West with victory against France and America. Or going back Hai Ba Trung, Ngo Quyen, Le Loi or Trung Hung Dao. The army led by Hung Dao defeated the 500,000 men Mongol army including the entire annihilation of the invasion fleet at Bach Dang.
> 
> 
> View attachment 547934
> 
> 
> View attachment 547937


We defeated the mongols too lol, our commanders such as raden wijaya defeated the mongolians sent by kublai khan in1293. the majapahit empire is one of the largest if not the largest empires to have existed in SE asia.would we be able to conquer if we didnt have capable military strategist?? 



Aqsuperman said:


> Marksmans from Vietnam People Army in AASAM (Australian Army Skill at Arms Meet)
> .


Vietnam should not be shy to ask help from us indonesians, we'll be happy to help our little asean brother. You see, to be better you have to learn from the best


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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> they wear helmets that were not seen before. Western army styles?



Seem so. These helmets seem to belong to Western manufacturers, not domestic. 



striver44 said:


> Vietnam should not be shy to ask help from us indonesians, we'll be happy to help our little asean brother. You see, to be better you have to learn from the best



Sure, Indonesia perform extremely well in many marksman competitions, I have nothing against that. If only Indonesian counter-terrorist units perform just as good as their marksmans colleagues, right? 

More pictures about Vietnam delegation in AASAM. Weapons seem to be FN FNC and FN MAG

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## striver44

Aqsuperman said:


> Seem so. These helmets seem to belong to Western manufacturers, not domestic.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, Indonesia perform extremely well in many marksman competitions, I have nothing against that. If only Indonesian counter-terrorist units perform just as good as their marksmans colleagues, right?
> 
> More pictures about Vietnam delegation in AASAM. Weapons seem to be FN FNC and FN MAG


So sad, years after the end of vietnam war. The viet soldiers seem to have lost its shooting skills. But dont worry. Just ask our help,we will help you. I think vietnam deserve ya know 5th or 6th rank.


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## Aqsuperman

striver44 said:


> So sad, years after the end of vietnam war. The viet soldiers seem to have lost its shooting skills. But dont worry. Just ask our help,we will help you. I think vietnam deserve ya know 5th or 6th rank.



Sure, sure sure whatever you say


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## warzone

striver44 said:


> So sad, years after the end of vietnam war. The viet soldiers seem to have lost its shooting skills. But dont worry. Just ask our help,we will help you. I think vietnam deserve ya know 5th or 6th rank.



Another dummy guy who read too many books think shooting range games (between few persons) prove the efficiency of the entire army of hundreds of thousands… Competition (between a few dudes) meant nothing and you can have all the medals you want and it still doesn’t prove anything in real combat. 

During a real combat firefight, with all the noises and destruction (and death) around do you think all the dudes (on the marksman competition) will have the same concentration and composure as in the peaceful shooting range ? ... Also will have all the time to shoot no-moving targets, because the enemy will stop moving to let you shoot at them... You too smart book reader @striver, you will be a great general

Do you know that base on different studies that 10-20% soldiers don’t even shoot their guns to kill another human being during real combat situation? You can practice all you want in a quiet and safe environment, but it won't take away the fact that some still won’t fire at the enemy during real combat. Do you know that smarty book reader @striver44


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> We defeated the mongols too lol, our commanders such as raden wijaya defeated the mongolians sent by kublai khan in1293. the majapahit empire is one of the largest if not the largest empires to have existed in SE asia.would we be able to conquer if we didnt have capable military strategist??
> 
> 
> Vietnam should not be shy to ask help from us indonesians, we'll be happy to help our little asean brother. You see, to be better you have to learn from the best


Defeating Mongolia? How is it possible if Indonesia as country came into existence not long ago? There is no historical record that you ever fought a real war. You lost East Timor against some rebels, didn’t you?



Aqsuperman said:


> Seem so. These helmets seem to belong to Western manufacturers, not domestic.
> 
> Sure, Indonesia perform extremely well in many marksman competitions, I have nothing against that. If only Indonesian counter-terrorist units perform just as good as their marksmans colleagues, right?
> 
> More pictures about Vietnam delegation in AASAM. Weapons seem to be FN FNC and FN MAG


I like the helmets. Look great. The camo is too green too exposed. Not good. But overall a right step in right direction.


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## Viet

Land Platforms
*Russia completes delivery of T-90S/SK tanks to Vietnam*
*Dmitry Fediushko, Moscow and Samuel Cranny-Evans, London* - Jane's Defence Weekly 
28 March 2019





A Russian T-90S MBT fitted with the Shtora defensive aids suite. Source: UralVagonZavod


Moscow has completed the delivery of 64 T-90S/SK main battle tanks (MBTs) to Vietnam, the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) confirmed to _Jane's_ on 28 March.

A military-diplomatic source said "the multi-faceted contract" that was signed in 2016 for the MBT acquisition "has been fulfilled in accordance with the original schedule".

"All the financial issues under the contract have been resolved, and the Vietnamese tank crews and technical specialists have already been trained," the source added.

A representative of the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) told _Jane's_ that the MBTs were shipped in two large batches, each totalling "no fewer than 30 platforms".

"The first batch was delivered last December, while the second one arrived in Vietnam in late February," said the source, adding that the VPA received the MBTs equipped with Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour and a turret-mounted missile countermeasures system.

"The vehicles will replace outdated Chinese Type 59 and non-upgraded Soviet-era T-54 tanks," he said, pointing out that the VPA has already begun operating the new vehicles.

In July 2017 Vietnamese state-run news agencies confirmed that Hanoi had ordered 64 T-90Ss, including an undisclosed number of T-90SK variants, pointing out that the acquisition would be funded by credit provided by Moscow.

The T-90S is the basic export model, while the 'K' is a reference to command versions.


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## striver44

warzone said:


> Another dummy guy who read too many books think shooting range games (between few persons) prove the efficiency of the entire army of hundreds of thousands… Competition (between a few dudes) meant nothing and you can have all the medals you want and it still doesn’t prove anything in real combat.
> 
> During a real combat firefight, with all the noises and destruction (and death) around do you think all the dudes (on the marksman competition) will have the same concentration and composure as in the peaceful shooting range ? ... Also will have all the time to shoot no-moving targets, because the enemy will stop moving to let you shoot at them... You too smart book reader @striver, you will be a great general
> 
> Do you know that base on different studies that 10-20% soldiers don’t even shoot their guns to kill another human being during real combat situation? You can practice all you want in a quiet and safe environment, but it won't take away the fact that some still won’t fire at the enemy during real combat. Do you know that smarty book reader @striver44



yes i agree lol, marksmanship is a dumb game for vietnamese. and even though its dumb enough it didn't stop them for participating. which make the question , who is the actual dumb here????

oh i know

those helmet looks dumb on you


Look, I would love more vietnamese participation in Marksmanship contest, they will be a good addition in the cheerleading role. just shot pew pew pew no score, and the rest of the time, you could actually pay attention on how world class shooters work.



Viet said:


> Defeating Mongolia? How is it possible if Indonesia as country came into existence not long ago? There is no historical record that you ever fought a real war. You lost East Timor against some rebels, didn’t you?
> 
> 
> .


https://www.wowshack.com/the-forgotten-mongol-invasion-of-java-that-changed-history/

btw vietnam also didnt existed yet during the battle of bach dang.


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## NEKONEKO

@striver44 what are you doing here, stop

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## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> Vietnam should not be shy to ask help from us indonesians, we'll be happy to help our little asean brother. You see, to be better you have to learn from the best


So u dont feel shy when we arrested your " well trained" officer in disputed water easily like kid ??

Actually we also can arrest your stupid president essily if he come to the disputed zone too


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## cochine

striver44 said:


> We defeated the mongols too lol, our commanders such as raden wijaya defeated the mongolians sent by kublai khan in1293. the majapahit empire is one of the largest if not the largest empires to have existed in SE asia.would we be able to conquer if we didnt have capable military strategist??



When Indonesia shared border with Yuan (Mongolian) Dynasty of China like Vietnam, you could speak Futonghua like Ujggur people now in China.
The sea is protected you !


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> yes i agree lol, marksmanship is a dumb game for vietnamese. and even though its dumb enough it didn't stop them for participating. which make the question , who is the actual dumb here????
> 
> oh i know
> 
> those helmet looks dumb on you
> 
> 
> Look, I would love more vietnamese participation in Marksmanship contest, they will be a good addition in the cheerleading role. just shot pew pew pew no score, and the rest of the time, you could actually pay attention on how world class shooters work.


No Lol. worthless to laugh or make rediculous comments. Vietnam’s participation in western army’s exercises is a good thing that seems to increase in size and scope.If you want to beat the West and the East, learn from the West and East. Check the record numbers of Vietnamese students in the US, Canada and Japan. Vietnamese army should transform itself from a mass army to an elite army.


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## Viet

*Boeing official says Vietnam military drone deal almost done*

By *Vu Anh*
Fri 3/29/2019, 11:34 (GMT+7)

*Boeing is close to sealing a deal to sell unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to Vietnam, an official from the U.S. company revealed.*





Boeing's unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) ScanEagle. Photo courtesy of Boeing


The Boeing Insitu ScanEagle is a small, long-range, low-altitude reconnaissance drone built by Insitu, a Boeing subsidiary.

The sale will be supported through U.S. Foreign Military Financing and the recipient will be the Vietnamese Coast Guard, Yeong Tae Pak, Boeing’s marketing director for defense sales in Southeast Asia, said Wednesday at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition in Malaysia.

"The sale is in progress," British security magazine _Jane’s_ quoted him as saying.

The number of UAVs to be bought is not known.

Yeong said the deal is as an indicator of Boeing’s defense sales strategy in newer regional markets like Vietnam, where opportunities to grow its defense presence is "being pursued through lower-tier platforms."

The drone can operate above 15,000 feet and hover over a battlefield for extended missions of up to 20 hours, depending on system configuration.

The five-foot-long ScanEagle UAV has a 10-foot wingspan and can operate in land and maritime environments.

In February the U.S.’s Indo-Pacific Command chief, Admiral Phil Davidson, said in a statement that Vietnam is acquiring equipment from the U.S., including Boeing Insitu ScanEagle UAVs, Beechcraft T-6 Texan II trainer aircraft and a second decommissioned US Coast Guard cutter.

In August last year a local newspaper quoted an unnamed U.S. State Department official as saying that Vietnam had signed contracts to buy U.S. military equipment worth $94.7 million.

Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry has neither confirmed nor denied the information.

Last March the USS Carl Vinson arrived in Da Nang on a historic visit, the first to Vietnam by an American aircraft carrier since 1975. During its visit, the U.S. delivered six Metal Shark patrol boats to Vietnam.

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## warzone

striver44 said:


> yes i agree lol, marksmanship is a dumb game for vietnamese. and even though its dumb enough it didn't stop them for participating. which make the question , who is the actual dumb here????
> 
> oh i know
> 
> those helmet looks dumb on you
> 
> 
> Look, I would love more vietnamese participation in Marksmanship contest, they will be a good addition in the cheerleading role. just shot pew pew pew no score, and the rest of the time, you could actually pay attention on how world class shooters work.
> 
> 
> https://www.wowshack.com/the-forgotten-mongol-invasion-of-java-that-changed-history/
> 
> btw vietnam also didnt existed yet during the battle of bach dang.



Wow, so your logic is marksmanship contests (between few delegates) prove the sharpshooting of the entire army personnel. So the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia and Singapore won all the ASEAN marksmanship contests must be all mighty and formidable army, I didn't know that. So all Indonesian soldiers are sharpshooters, right!!

Thank You to share your knowledge smarty book reader @striver44, now I understand how Indonesia defend it 17 500 islands with 300 000 soldiers, it just need to put 17 soldiers on each island because Indonesia won few marksmanship contests so the entire army are fearsome sharpshooters.

Because you are not the brightest light here in this forum, maybe video will make you understand about COMBAT MARKSMANSHIP.

This is a video of the movie GLORY (1989), during rifle training scene






So you see the different between competition and real combat, smarty. Stay with your fancy competitions and your medals. Tell your Indo army to wear those medals when fighting the rebels, it will put fear into the enemies. And I am sure the SMALL AUSTRALIAN ARMY are pissing in their pants because INDO won few regional marksmanship contests (but never win any major war).


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## Aqsuperman

It seem that the Vietnamese thread in PDF is continuously "blessed" by the visits of Indonesian members who are eager to start some shiet up 



striver44 said:


> yes i agree lol, marksmanship is a dumb game for vietnamese. and even though its dumb enough it didn't stop them for participating. which make the question , who is the actual dumb here????
> 
> oh i know
> 
> those helmet looks dumb on you



Vietnam participate in marksmanship competitions to improve ourselves and communicate with other armed forces. But to use marksmanship competition to measure the fighting capability of an ARMY? Yeah that sounds FCKING DUMB, "uhuhuhuh boy". It seems that you don't learn what happen the last time you run your mouth in this thread? "I'm out", "These Vietnamese are so mean so I have to imitate crying sounds to somehow make them feel insulted", "I'm going to expose my wild fantasies by start calling other Vietnamese my girlfriend" ...

But let's take your words at face value. Indonesia marksman achieved fame in many competitions so Indonesian Armed Forces must have excellent shooters, right? 

Oh wait, 3 Indonesian soldiers from the elite Kopassus got smoked fighting Papuan rebels armed with mothballed rifles, spear, bow and arrow,... For the special force to lose man against such a rag-tag band of rebels seems a bit odd considering that Indonesia marksman score extremely well in competitions, right? The report said 25 Indonesian soldiers came into contact with about 50 rebels so it should take like 2 shots per soldier to finish the firefight, right? So how come the firefight lasted for hours and 3 Kopassus soldier went back home in body bags?


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## Viet

Myanmar military looking to strengthen ties with Vietnam



By Mizzima 
29 March 2019






Vietnamese soldiers of an army defense unit march during a parade marking 70th anniversary of National Day at a street in Hanoi, Vietnam. Photo: Minh Hoang/EPA


The Armed Forces of Myanmar wish to strengthen the friendship and comprehensive cooperation with the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA), a Myanmar military officer has said, according to a Vietnamplus report.

Brigadier General Aung Zeya, Myanmar’s military, naval and air force attaché to Vietnam, made the statement at a Hanoi banquet on March 27 hosted by the Myanmar Embassy in Vietnam on the occasion of the 74th founding anniversary of Myanmar’s Armed Forces.

Attending the event, Major General Ngo Minh Tien, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the VPA, said that in the context of the fruitfully developing bilateral relations, the ties between the VPA and Myanmar’s Armed Forces have continuously been consolidated and promoted.

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## warzone

Viet said:


> Myanmar military looking to strengthen ties with Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> By Mizzima
> 29 March 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese soldiers of an army defense unit march during a parade marking 70th anniversary of National Day at a street in Hanoi, Vietnam. Photo: Minh Hoang/EPA
> 
> 
> The Armed Forces of Myanmar wish to strengthen the friendship and comprehensive cooperation with the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA), a Myanmar military officer has said, according to a Vietnamplus report.
> 
> Brigadier General Aung Zeya, Myanmar’s military, naval and air force attaché to Vietnam, made the statement at a Hanoi banquet on March 27 hosted by the Myanmar Embassy in Vietnam on the occasion of the 74th founding anniversary of Myanmar’s Armed Forces.
> 
> Attending the event, Major General Ngo Minh Tien, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the VPA, said that in the context of the fruitfully developing bilateral relations, the ties between the VPA and Myanmar’s Armed Forces have continuously been consolidated and promoted.



I was in Myanmar last week... Gosh the weather is freaking burning hot over there and the food...well we can skip that part as well... And it like moving back in time, it was like Viet Nam 15-20 years ago. But the Myanmar economy is moving at good pace. The cost of living is cheap and people are generally honest ( a sign that mass tourism is not there yet)

Myanmar have many really good experienced units with combat experience.. And why Myanmar are not among the top 3 in ASEAN marksmanship game smarty book reader @striver44 ??? Please enlight us

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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> It seem that the Vietnamese thread in PDF is continuously "blessed" by the visits of Indonesian members who are eager to start some shiet up
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam participate in marksmanship competitions to improve ourselves and communicate with other armed forces. But to use marksmanship competition to measure the fighting capability of an ARMY? Yeah that sounds FCKING DUMB, "uhuhuhuh boy". It seems that you don't learn what happen the last time you run your mouth in this thread? "I'm out", "These Vietnamese are so mean so I have to imitate crying sounds to somehow make them feel insulted", "I'm going to expose my wild fantasies by start calling other Vietnamese my girlfriend" ...
> 
> But let's take your words at face value. Indonesia marksman achieved fame in many competitions so Indonesian Armed Forces must have excellent shooters, right?
> 
> Oh wait, 3 Indonesian soldiers from the elite Kopassus got smoked fighting Papuan rebels armed with mothballed rifles, spear, bow and arrow,... For the special force to lose man against such a rag-tag band of rebels seems a bit odd considering that Indonesia marksman score extremely well in competitions, right? The report said 25 Indonesian soldiers came into contact with about 50 rebels so it should take like 2 shots per soldier to finish the firefight, right? So how come the firefight lasted for hours and 3 Kopassus soldier went back home in body bags?



Thats because Viets always talk shit they became funny sometimes. For us, Viet forum section visit is always a recreation. Be thankful, at least some people think Viets mean something. Chinese and other forumers dont even think Vietnam exist. Thanks for making us laugh every now and then. Lel


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## Viet

nufix said:


> Thats because Viets always talk shit they became funny sometimes. For us, Viet forum section visit is always a recreation. Be thankful, at least some people think Viets mean something. Chinese and other forumers dont even think Vietnam exist. Thanks for making us laugh every now and then. Lel


well at least Vietnam army is famous by history and feared by enemy. Indonesia is famous and feared by what? Rifle shooting competitions?



warzone said:


> I was in Myanmar last week... Gosh the weather is freaking burning hot over there and the food...well we can skip that part as well... And it like moving back in time, it was like Viet Nam 15-20 years ago. But the Myanmar economy is moving at good pace. The cost of living is cheap and people are generally honest ( a sign that mass tourism is not there yet)
> 
> Myanmar have many really good experienced units with combat experience.. And why Myanmar are not among the top 3 in ASEAN marksmanship game smarty book reader @striver44 ??? Please enlight us


It’s interesting considering Vietnam and Myanmar were at the same stage of economic development in the 1990s.

@Aung Zaya


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## nufix

Viet said:


> well at least Vietnam army is famous by history and feared by enemy. Indonesia is famous and feared by what? Rifle shooting competitions?
> 
> 
> It’s interesting considering Vietnam and Myanmar were at the same stage of economic development in the 1990s.
> 
> @Aung Zaya



Feared by enemy? Online enemy?


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## Aung Zaya

warzone said:


> I was in Myanmar last week... Gosh the weather is freaking burning hot over there and the food...well we can skip that part as well... And it like moving back in time, it was like Viet Nam 15-20 years ago. But the Myanmar economy is moving at good pace. The cost of living is cheap and people are generally honest ( a sign that mass tourism is not there yet)


been in Yangon ?!! Yangon is getting hotter and hotter since most of Yangon's big trees ( 75% ) got destroyed during cyclone Nargis. it's a shame that YGN authority still ignored that.In this regards , I like urbanscape of HCMC's district 12 or something ( i forgot ), the blocks of plants in middle of residents area can really change the climate of surroundings. Hope Gov will take this case seriously in one day.



warzone said:


> Myanmar have many really good experienced units with combat experience.. And why Myanmar are not among the top 3 in ASEAN marksmanship game smarty book reader @striver44 ??? Please enlight us



this is because Our general never care about that in last year. no intensive training , no special slection , no budget for that. but starting from 2 years ago , Myanmar concentrated on that kind of competition. so we can hope it in coming future.



Viet said:


> It’s interesting considering Vietnam and Myanmar were at the same stage of economic development in the 1990s


we also hope that in coming decade , Myanmar would grow like Vietnam's today.

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## Viva_Viet

nufix said:


> Feared by enemy? Online enemy?


feared by ID officer who was arrested in disputed zone as easily as kid


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## warzone

Aung Zaya said:


> been in Yangon ?!! Yangon is getting hotter and hotter since most of Yangon's big trees ( 75% ) got destroyed during cyclone Nargis. it's a shame that YGN authority still ignored that.In this regards , I like urbanscape of HCMC's district 12 or something ( i forgot ), the blocks of plants in middle of residents area can really change the climate of surroundings. Hope Gov will take this case seriously in one day.
> 
> 
> 
> this is because Our general never care about that in last year. no intensive training , no special slection , no budget for that. but starting from 2 years ago , Myanmar concentrated on that kind of competition. so we can hope it in coming future.
> 
> 
> we also hope that in coming decade , Myanmar would grow like Vietnam's today.



I went to Yangon, then flew to Bagan and then drove to Mandalay.. And it was freaking hot everywhere 38-39 degree. My skin got screwed up , LOL

Yangon have a lot more green spaces than Ho Chi Minh and it a lot less dense and pack. I see a lot of big building construction sites, so it might change quickly. If I am Burmese I would put some money in real estate, it going to be HOT HOT in few years just like in Viet Nam. Motobikes are not permitted in Yangon, so it’s a good thing. So far from what I see, Viet Nam have a good reputation among local and I think Myanmar take Viet Nam as a model to fellow for economic developpment. By the way, I never visit so many temples and pagodas in a whole life, they are everywhere. People are very religious and superstitious.

Don’t waste money of marksman competition, better invest money on the well-being of soldiers (housing, food, ect..). In America, they always have competition between different police forces and fire departments. Does it really prove anything? It prove none, they are all equally as good and competent.



nufix said:


> Thats because Viets always talk shit they became funny sometimes. For us, Viet forum section visit is always a recreation. Be thankful, at least some people think Viets mean something. Chinese and other forumers dont even think Vietnam exist. Thanks for making us laugh every now and then. Lel



I am NOT A PATRIOTIC but I am a guy that believe in FACTS so let start about who is the funniest here,

Some Indo dudes that brag winning marksman local contests make instantly every Indo soldier a champion marksmanship, an INDO army of 300K soldiers that can’t finish a bunch of few ragtag rebel groups armed with obsolete weapons (knifes, pistols, rifles, arrows),

an Indo army that keep running away from SMALL AUTRALIAN ARMY, an Indo army that brag that can defend 17 500 islands with 300 000 soldiers and few boats…

Also brave Indo army bring so much respect when they will fight only when they outnumber the enemy (ragtag rebels) by 10,20,30 against 1

So who is the clown and the delusional here?

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## Viet

Aung Zaya said:


> been in Yangon ?!! Yangon is getting hotter and hotter since most of Yangon's big trees ( 75% ) got destroyed during cyclone Nargis. it's a shame that YGN authority still ignored that.In this regards , I like urbanscape of HCMC's district 12 or something ( i forgot ), the blocks of plants in middle of residents area can really change the climate of surroundings. Hope Gov will take this case seriously in one day.
> 
> 
> 
> this is because Our general never care about that in last year. no intensive training , no special slection , no budget for that. but starting from 2 years ago , Myanmar concentrated on that kind of competition. so we can hope it in coming future.
> 
> 
> we also hope that in coming decade , Myanmar would grow like Vietnam's today.


You have a much larger landmass and much more natural resources than Vietnam. Becoming rich and developed is just a matter of time. I have little doubt.



Most importantly: keep politics, economy and military out of the hands of religious, nationalistic nuts!

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## nufix

Viva_Viet said:


> feared by ID officer who was arrested in disputed zone as easily as kid


 Oh you mean the Viet PCG that let Viets fisher caught and prosecuted by ID army. Yeah i know that


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## Viet

nufix said:


> Feared by enemy? Online enemy?


Nonsense!
Saying good bye, today 46 years ago, the last US combat troop left Vietnam. March 29, 1973.


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## Aqsuperman

As I suspect, a friend of a F-A-G would be just another F-A-G



nufix said:


> Thats because Viets always talk shit they became funny sometimes. For us, Viet forum section visit is always a recreation. Be thankful, at least some people think Viets mean something. Chinese and other forumers dont even think Vietnam exist. Thanks for making us laugh every now and then. Lel



Oh really? As far as I'm concern, some Indonesian (and of course, Chinese) members in the PDF seem to to like crashing Viet thread to prove that they are DICKS acting like DICKS. Recreation? Sure, even I might need some "recreation" activities if my country got bombed around the year by small-time terrorists and people got their throat sliced execution-style. But in reality, no once classify talking trash as recreation unless the people involved have brain defects. Talk shit? We never talk shit unless some dicks come around pumping their chest asking for troubles.



nufix said:


> Oh you mean the Viet PCG that let Viets fisher caught and prosecuted by ID army. Yeah i know that



Of course, we all know the bravery of the Indonesian that sent warship armed to the teeth to face Vietnam Coast Guard which is just a civilian run service. I guess the Indonesian fisheries officer that Vietnam Coast Guard "rescued" a couple of year back got scared enough that he requested his superiors to beg for reinforcement from the military. Otherwise, Vietnam Coast Guard might "rescue" more Indonesian fisheries officer in the future.

Truly a mark of bravado, right? Beating the law enforcement force with the help of military vessels is a giant achievement. 



nufix said:


> Feared by enemy? Online enemy?



By the enemy that we kicked butt during the last century. You were born under a rock so you missed the history class? As Indonesia performed spectacularly (dying that is) in Indonesian National Revolution, I guess it's hard to comprehend words like "wars" and "victories"


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## Viet

the US says Vietnam acquires Beechcraft T-6 Texan II trainer aircraft.
Anyone has info how many pieces and when will they arrive?
the birds can carry all sorts of weapons.


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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> As I suspect, a friend of a F-A-G would be just another F-A-G
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really? As far as I'm concern, some Indonesian (and of course, Chinese) members in the PDF seem to to like crashing Viet thread to prove that they are DICKS acting like DICKS. Recreation? Sure, even I might need some "recreation" activities if my country got bombed around the year by small-time terrorists and people got their throat sliced execution-style. But in reality, no once classify talking trash as recreation unless the people involved have brain defects. Talk shit? We never talk shit unless some dicks come around pumping their chest asking for troubles.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, we all know the bravery of the Indonesian that sent warship armed to the teeth to face Vietnam Coast Guard which is just a civilian run service. I guess the Indonesian fisheries officer that Vietnam Coast Guard "rescued" a couple of year back got scared enough that he requested his superiors to beg for reinforcement from the military. Otherwise, Vietnam Coast Guard might "rescue" more Indonesian fisheries officer in the future.
> 
> Truly a mark of bravado, right? Beating the law enforcement force with the help of military vessels is a giant achievement.
> 
> 
> 
> By the enemy that we kicked butt during the last century. You were born under a rock so you missed the history class? As Indonesia performed spectacularly (dying that is) in Indonesian National Revolution, I guess it's hard to comprehend words like "wars" and "victories"



Dude, why take everything seriously? It is not like I am taking you or Vietnam seriously, coz you are joke. Even your currency (Dong) means Penis in english. Is that why you like dick so much?


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## Aung Zaya

warzone said:


> I went to Yangon, then flew to Bagan and then drove to Mandalay.. And it was freaking hot everywhere 38-39 degree. My skin got screwed up , LOL


 bro u are lucky. In Mandalay , mostly 40 and last year it went up to 43. and Bagan too. So many tourists go directly to hilly region and avoid the cnetral plain region.  as u said , it's freaking hot everywhere. 



warzone said:


> Yangon have a lot more green spaces than Ho Chi Minh and it a lot less dense and pack. I see a lot of big building construction sites, so it might change quickly. If I am Burmese I would put some money in real estate, it going to be HOT HOT in few years just like in Viet Nam.


yes.bro Yangon is planning new satellite cities and the market is so hot. the bad thing is the land price also rocketed to double at the same. So , now i thinking of investing in capital city Nay Pyi Taw and second largest city Mandalay instead of Yangon. All embassies will move to Nay Pyi Taw in very soon. some already start construction. So i'm thinking of investing in some foreigners oriented things in Nay Pyi Taw. Land prices are also cheap there. I will start with small business. Check the land availability in NPT. almost untouched. 







warzone said:


> Viet Nam have a good reputation among local and I think Myanmar take Viet Nam as a model to fellow for economic developpment. By the way, I never visit so many temples and pagodas in a whole life, they are everywhere. People are very religious and superstitious.


true. bro . Vietnam products are getting popular in recent years after arrival of vietnamese big companies like Viettel and HAGL to Myanmar market. and yes. we need to take many things from Vietnam's recent developments. Vietnam is changing a lot even within this decade.Unfortunately, unlike Vietnam , Myanmar need to settle political unrest first. hope gov can solve this in very soon.


warzone said:


> Don’t waste money of marksman competition, better invest money on the well-being of soldiers (housing, food, ect..). In America, they always have competition between different police forces and fire departments. Does it really prove anything? It prove none, they are all equally as good and competent.


I also think so. bro. now Armed Force is changing a lot. In the past , they rarely did an exercise. but poured money in military parade adding many types of military vehicles and fancy things. now, for eg:last year , in Armed force day parade , they removed all vehicles display. Instead , they held 2 or 3 joint military exercises in both land and sea. seem Armed forces concentrate on somethings like combat readiness instead of showing off in parade , which is good. really glad to see they are changing like that. as u said , they should concentrate only on major competition and instead should do somethings on the well-being of soldiers.

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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Dude, why take everything seriously? It is not like I am taking you or Vietnam seriously, coz you are joke. Even your currency (Dong) means Penis in english. Is that why you like dick so much?



Oh I'm sorry, I don't know in Indonesia, you could casually jump in front of other people, insult them and say "Hey, why so serious?" Guess what: You look like a retard prankster on YouTube. Running around and messing with people that don't even know why you mom and dad decide to fck without contraception one day. But once people react back, you start bullshieting: "Why so serious", "It's not like I'm taking you seriously", "You are a joke to me",...

Sure, our currency happen to carry a rather unfortunate meaning in English but that is the marvelous of language. It's not like we purposely name our currency after dick. But in case you like to insult people base on their local identities and country features, I have LOADS of stuff through a single Google search. For example:

"What would you call a fcking retard that can move on? An Indon"

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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> Oh I'm sorry, I don't know if Indonesia, you could casually jump in front of other people, insult them and say "Hey, why so serious?" Guess what: You look like a retard prankster on YouTube. Running around and messing with people that don't even know why you mom and dad decide to fck without contraception oce day. But once people react back, you start bullshieting: "Why so serious", "It's not like I'm talking you seriously", "You are a joke to me",...
> 
> Sure, our currency happen to carry a rather unfortunate meaning in English but that is the marvelous of language. It's not like we purposely name our currency after dick.
> 
> But in case you like to insult people base on their local identities and country features, I have LOADS of stuff through a single Google search. For example:
> 
> "What would you call a fcking retard that can move on? An Indon"



Why so butthurt? Is it coz it’s true?


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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Why so butthurt? Is it coz it’s true?



It's called "human emotion". You insult people, they would feel pissed and shall react, plain and simple. "Butthurt" is the word commonly used by lame A-S-S dicks while attempting to justify their dick moves. Sorry but save your crap "Why react to my insults. Because it's true?" for Indon that actually fall for such a pathetic logic.

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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> It's called "human emotion". You insult people, they would feel pissed and shall react, plain and simple. "Butthurt" is the word commonly used by lame A-S-S dicks while attempting to justify their dick moves. Sorry but save your crap "Why react to my insults. Because it's true?" for Indon that actually fall for such a pathetic logic.



Dicks again? That confirms you love Dong so much. *wink wink*


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## Viet

nufix said:


> Dicks again? That confirms you love Dong so much. *wink wink*


I suggest you stop polluting here.


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## Viet

Missile/Gun truck Pantsir/S1 „made in Vietnam“. Armed by four anti aircraft missiles A72. Not as so elegant as the Russian original but a step in cost savings 












Sau lần ra mắt và gây chú ý hồi đầu năm, mới đây thứ vũ khí đặc sắc và





Đây là một hệ thống phòng không tự hành tầm thấp gắn trên khung






Thành phần chính của tổ hợp vũ khí này là 4 tên lửa vác vai A-72






Bên cạnh đó hệ thống còn có thêm thiết bị ổn định đường ngắm để tác






Tên lửa và khí tài quang điện tử đều đáp ứng các yêu cầu về tự động hóa, có thể nhanh chóng xác định





Hệ thống có thể phóng hoàn toàn 4 tên lửa A-72 trong khoảng thời






Điểm đáng hoan nghênh





Một trong những hệ thống vũ khí gây chú ý nhiều nhất chính là tổ hợp tên lửa phòng không tự hành tầm thấp do Quân chủng Phòng không - Không quân phối hợp cùng Viện Khoa học Công nghệ quân sự chế tạo


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## GraveDigger388

Viet said:


> Missile/Gun truck Pantsir/S1 „made in Vietnam“. Armed by four anti aircraft missiles A72. Not as so elegant as the Russian original but a step in cost savings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sau lần ra mắt và gây chú ý hồi đầu năm, mới đây thứ vũ khí đặc sắc và
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Đây là một hệ thống phòng không tự hành tầm thấp gắn trên khung
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thành phần chính của tổ hợp vũ khí này là 4 tên lửa vác vai A-72
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bên cạnh đó hệ thống còn có thêm thiết bị ổn định đường ngắm để tác
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tên lửa và khí tài quang điện tử đều đáp ứng các yêu cầu về tự động hóa, có thể nhanh chóng xác định
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hệ thống có thể phóng hoàn toàn 4 tên lửa A-72 trong khoảng thời
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Điểm đáng hoan nghênh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Một trong những hệ thống vũ khí gây chú ý nhiều nhất chính là tổ hợp tên lửa phòng không tự hành tầm thấp do Quân chủng Phòng không - Không quân phối hợp cùng Viện Khoa học Công nghệ quân sự chế tạo


Specs?


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## Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> Specs?


Build by Vietnam military institute. Fire control system located inside a cabin, low range, self propelled missiles can be launched in 15 second interval, target automatic detection, optoelectronic infrared thermal camera, day light camera and laser distance measuring device.


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## GraveDigger388

Viet said:


> Build by Vietnam military institute. Fire control system located inside a cabin, low range, self propelled missiles can be launched in 15 second interval, target automatic detection, optoelectronic infrared thermal camera, day light camera and laser distance measuring device.


More details about radar used and it's operational range, missile specs, vehicle specs, FCS, etc?


----------



## Viet

GraveDigger388 said:


> More details about radar used and it's operational range, missile specs, vehicle specs, FCS, etc?


Oh not much details are available. But basically Vietnam mounts shoulder fire missiles on a truck. That’s it. A72 missile goes back to the time of USSR. The next truck will have a more powerful missile: a Vietnam made version of Igla missile. You can check the specs of Igla. Radar and fire control system are also domestic. Many items are licensed from Russia with adding domestic ingredients to better adapt to Vietnam battlefields.


----------



## nufix

Viet said:


> I suggest you stop polluting here.



Or what?


----------



## Viet

nufix said:


> Or what?


Nothing. You are doing low level trolling. Boring.


----------



## nufix

Viet said:


> Nothing. You are doing low level trolling. Boring.



You are correct tho, I stopped taking Viet posters seriously since 2016 or so..


----------



## Viet

nufix said:


> You are correct tho, I stopped taking Viet posters seriously since 2016 or so..


ok good. this thread is for people that show interest in Vietnam military or related stuffs. Pls don´t troll here. time to move on bro. or to leave.

The US says she will provide a one more US coast guard cutter to Vietnam. More details may come later this year. most like the same class as the first one "Morgenthau" that was transfered to Vietnam Coast Guard.


----------



## nufix

Viet said:


> ok good. this thread is for people that show interest in Vietnam military or related stuffs. Pls don´t troll here. time to move on bro. or to leave.
> 
> The US says she will provide a one more US coast guard cutter to Vietnam. More details may come later this year. most like the same class as the first one "Morgenthau" that was transfered to Vietnam Coast Guard.



Chill, somebody asked why Indo posters are here, so I answered. As long as you dont mention us in your funny posts, we'll just chill.


----------



## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Dicks again? That confirms you love Dong so much. *wink wink*



As much as homo Indon love each other, I guess  But I guess Indon pranksters don't understand English. The only that get through their brain is a shrapnel from bomb that explode right next to them which fortunately, Indonesia terrorists got that covered quite well.



nufix said:


> You are correct tho, I stopped taking Viet posters seriously since 2016 or so..



So you have been a sore loser for 3 years now, good to know that our thread have a silent Indon stalker around.



nufix said:


> Chill, somebody asked why Indo posters are here, so I answered. As long as you dont mention us in your funny posts, we'll just chill.



Oh that seem so reasonable... but wait a minute, who start shiet in the Vietnam Defense Forum in the first place? Oh right, it was a couple of Indons who had too much time on their hands. But somehow, it's the Vietnamese that take things too far in your eyes? 

Now you come here acting almighty and order us not to mention you guys in our posts? Oh that is nearly as hilarious as the claim "Indonesia is the safest nation in ASEAN with zero terrorists threat". You think that you have some authority to pull that after all the trash talking? How about you kindly fck off to the hole you come from and stay there with your mouth shut, sound good to you?



Viet said:


> ok good. this thread is for people that show interest in Vietnam military or related stuffs. Pls don´t troll here. time to move on bro. or to leave.



That motherfcker is a bona fide troll, there is no way around it. As if his brain could do anything more than trolling around. We should consider him as an nasty pest that instead of a fellow PDF member .


----------



## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> As much as homo Indon love each other, I guess  But I guess Indon pranksters don't understand English. The only that get through their brain is a shrapnel from bomb that explode right next to them which fortunately, Indonesia terrorists got that covered quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> So you have been a sore loser for 3 years now, good to know that our thread have a silent Indon stalker around.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh that seem so reasonable... but wait a minute, who start shiet in the Vietnam Defense Forum in the first place? Oh right, it was a couple of Indons who had too much time on their hands. But somehow, it's the Vietnamese that take things too far in your eyes?
> 
> Now you come here acting almighty and order us not to mention you guys in our posts? Oh that is nearly as hilarious as the claim "Indonesia is the safest nation in ASEAN with zero terrorists threat". You think that you have some authority to pull that after all the trash talking? How about you kindly fck off to the hole you come from and stay there with your mouth shut, sound good to you?
> 
> 
> 
> That motherfcker is a bona fide troll, there is no way around it. As if his brain could do anything more than trolling around. We should consider him as an nasty pest that instead of a fellow PDF member .



Sharpnels? I'd worry more about Agent Orange that covered the whole vietnam. Bro, you need to get checked out, maybe that's why you are so homo you named your currency Dong *wink wink*


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## Viet

nufix said:


> Sharpnels? I'd worry more about Agent Orange that covered the whole vietnam. Bro, you need to get checked out, maybe that's why you are so homo you named your currency Dong *wink wink*


dong means copper, you illiterate. Vietnam traditional currency is copper, silver and gold.

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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Sharpnels? I'd worry more about Agent Orange that covered the whole vietnam. Bro, you need to get checked out, maybe that's why you are so homo you named your currency Dong *wink wink*



Thank to our good friend from the US, the clearing of Agent Orange-infested regions is moving up at a good pace. Indonesia nowadays? People heard "Indon", they think "terrorists", "terrorists attacks" and "homophobia". But what I find most funny is:

I say A, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
I say B, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
I say C, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
I say you mom is a whore, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
I say you dad is a pimp, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
I say you are a homo, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking

It's like your only insult you could come up in here is "Dong" but I guess that is best you could do as an uneducated Indon. For the record, Vietnam currency is đồng, not dong. As my friend Viet said, đồng is copper. It serves alongside vàng (gold) and bạc (silver) in many transactions in the old days. English LACKS diacritic so some Vietnamese words got changed in the adaption process ( Đồng -> Dong) but for someone like you that have to stuck with the pathetic education system of Indonesia, such a fact is too hard to comprehend, right? All you could do "dong, dong, dong, your currency is dong" and you are going to keep barking like the pitiful dog you are until the end of days.


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## nufix

Viet said:


> dong means copper, you illiterate. Vietnam traditional currency is copper, silver and gold.



Yeah try say "I love Dong" in the U.S



Aqsuperman said:


> Thank to our good friend from the US, the clearing of Agent Orange-infested regions is moving up at a good pace. Indonesia nowadays? People heard "Indon", they think "terrorists", "terrorists attacks" and "homophobia". But what I find most funny is:
> 
> I say A, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
> I say B, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
> I say C, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
> I say you mom is a whore, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
> I say you dad is a pimp, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
> I say you are a homo, you scream "Dong" like a B-I-T-C-H and start winking
> 
> It's like your only insult you could come up in here is "Dong" but I guess that is best you could do as an uneducated Indon. For the record, Vietnam currency is đồng, not dong. As my friend Viet said, đồng is copper. It serves alongside vàng (gold) and bạc (silver) in many transactions in the old days. English LACKS diacritic so some Vietnamese words got changed in the adaption process ( Đồng -> Dong) but for someone like you that have to stuck with the pathetic education system of Indonesia, such a fact is too hard to comprehend, right? All you could do "dong, dong, dong, your currency is dong" and you are going to keep barking like the pitiful dog you are until the end of days.



I thought by now you already realize I didnt even read what you wrote. Turns out I only need one word to reactivate that agent orange effect still in your blood system and all hell break lose.


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## Viet

man, less trolls will be good here.

the anti terror units are armed by German and Israeli rifles including one that can shoot around the corner.


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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Yeah try say "I love Dong" in the U.S



Only dipshiet Indon talk like that. Educated Vietnamese would say "I love Vietnamese Đồng". Stop thinking as if businessman around the globe care about the slang meaning of a currency instead of profit. Only illiterate homo Indon scream dong hysterically and think that it's a big deal.



nufix said:


> I thought by now you already realize I didnt even read what you wrote. Turns out I only need one word to reactivate that agent orange effect still in your blood system and all hell break lose.



Oh so you don't read what I wrote but once you see that I quote you post, you jump back to the thread and come up with reply as fast as a loyal dog answering to the master call. You sure that your grandparents and your great grandparents don't work as slave for the Anglo or the Dutch? Because their descendant seem to act like one.

Feel free to act as if you don't care about us all you want. But everyone know you are a sore loser Indon that never want to let other have the last words. You are just a sad troll 



Viet said:


> man, less trolls will be good here.



Indonesian like to troll others so much and mother nature return in kind by trolling their A-S-S hard with tsunami, earthquake, flood... So let entertain the troll a bit longer because who know, their pathetic life might end in the next second.


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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> Only dipshiet Indon talk like that. Educated Vietnamese would say "I love Vietnamese Đồng". Stop thinking as if businessman around the globe care about the slang meaning of a currency instead of profit. Only illiterate homo Indon scream dong hysterically and think that it's a big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh so you don't read what I wrote but once you see that I quote you post, you jump back to the thread and come up with reply as fast as a loyal dog answering to the master call. You sure that your grandparents and your great grandparents don't work as slave for the Anglo or the Dutch? Because their descendant seem to act like one.
> 
> Feel free act as if you don't care about us all you want. But everyone know you are a sore loser Indon that never want to let other have the last words. You are just a sad troll :0
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian like to troll others so much and mother nature return in kind by trolling their A-S-S hard with tsunami, earthquake, flood... So let entertain the troll a bit longer because who know, their pathetic life might end in the next second.



Alright alright, I am entertained enough for this weekend. Dont cry. See you next weekend. Dont suck too much Dong will you.

Anyway, this is my parting gift: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ding dong dingilly-dong dong-dillongo


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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Alright alright, I am entertained enough for this weekend. Dont cry. See you next weekend. Dont suck too much Dong will you.



Entertained? More like "got my A-S-S handed to me". But as in the tradition of the Vietnamese, I would gladly let you run away with your tail between your legs. Here is a parting gift from me. It's slightly "sophisticated" so call me if you could not comprehend it, ok? Hope not to see your fck face again.


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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> Entertained? More like "got my A-S-S handed to me". But as in the tradition of the Vietnamese, I would gladly let you run away with your tail between your legs. Here is a parting gift from me. It's slightly "sophisticated" so call me if you could not comprehend it, ok? Hope not to see your fck face again.



Told you I am going back next week, why do you keep calling me? Ok then, I am glad to stay here and enrich your forum section with some hard truth.


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## Viet

@waz
@The Eagle

can you stop this guy nufix from trolling in Vietnam military thread pls?


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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Told you I am going back next week, why do you keep calling me? Ok then, I am glad to stay here and enrich your forum section with some hard truth.



Hey fcker, this is the VIETNAM. DEFENSE. FORUM thread. You don't want people to call you? Then FCK OFF in a QUIET manner like the other Indon trolls. You don't come in here, insult us and then say: "I will be back but I'm going to leave an final insult here for you guys"

No, you are a troll. A. FCKING. TROLL. You are an expert in Vietnam military affair? No. An well respected academic then? Also no. The only thread that could use some "enriching" from you is a thread called "Trash Talking Indon".


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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> Hey fcker, this is the VIETNAM. DEFENSE. FORUM thread. You don't want people to call you? Then FCK OFF in a QUIET manner like the other Indon trolls. You don't come in here, insult us and then say: "I will be back but I'm going to leave an final insult here for you guys"
> 
> No, you are a troll. A. FCKING. TROLL. You are an expert in Vietnam military affair? No. An well respected academic then? Also no. The only thread that could use some "enriching" from you is a thread called "Trash Talking Indon".



Lol, I already said that to your lover Viet that I stopped taking Viet posts seriously since 2016, what more would you expect? It is not like you are expert on Indonesian matters as well, so I responded your shitty posts with shitty posts. Looks like a fair trade to me, eh Dong?


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## Aqsuperman

nufix said:


> Lol, I already said that to your lover Viet that I stopped taking Viet posts seriously since 2016, what more would you expect? It is not like you are expert on Indonesian matters as well, so I responded your shitty posts with shitty posts. Looks like a fair trade to me, eh Dong?



Stop caring but come by once in awhile for shietposting? From what I see, you got so hung over us that you could not let things go, a solid proof of sore loser. In case you eyes so blind to truth, you fellow Indonesian come here shietposting FIRST. A few week earlier, we Vietnamese don't fcking care about Indonesian but all of the sudden, Indonesian trolls flock into the thread starting some shiet over a incident on the sea. You are simply a latecomer troll but act as if you put things right? You "hard truth" and "enriching" should be comparable to the trash I toss out for dog on the street. 

So yeah, your idea of fair trade look fcking ridiculous in my eyes. Fck off quietly and we Vietnamese might consider putting everything behind. Otherwise, we are going to see the extend of you limited brain, Indon troll.


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## waz

@nufix no more posting here now please.

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## nufix

Aqsuperman said:


> Stop caring but come by once in awhile for shietposting? From what I see, you got so hung over us that you could not let things go, a solid proof of sore loser. In case you eyes so blind to truth, you fellow Indonesian come here shietposting FIRST. A few week earlier, we Vietnamese don't fcking care about Indonesian but all of the sudden, Indonesian trolls flock into the thread starting some shiet over a incident on the sea. You are simply a latecomer troll but act as if you put things right? You "hard truth" and "enriching" should be comparable to the trash I toss out for dog on the street.
> 
> So yeah, your idea of fair trade look fcking ridiculous in my eyes. Fck off quietly and we Vietnamese might consider putting everything behind. Otherwise, we are going to see the extend of you limited brain, Indon troll.



@waz 

You see, they keep inviting me. How am I not going to enjoy enriching this forum section?


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## Viet

nufix said:


> @waz
> 
> You see, they keep inviting me. How am I not going to enjoy enriching this forum section?


That is enough ok?


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## nufix

Viet said:


> That is enough ok?



Alright, tell your friends to stop inviting me back into this section. But I will always be honored to come back here, friend


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## Viet

@waz

Please


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## waz

Stop quoting him and he ain’t coming, last warnings before bans.


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## Aqsuperman

Well, guess I have to live with that. Back to some Vietnamese related news before more retard Indo troll coming in. 

Vietnamese team from AASAM with other shooters.

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## Viva_Viet

nufix said:


> @waz
> 
> You see, they keep inviting me. How am I not going to enjoy enriching this forum section?


U r welcome to post news abt VN and ID-VN relationship.

Just stop spamming.


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## Aqsuperman

Vietnamese soldiers and their Australian colleagues in the closing days of AASAM

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## Viet

Good news of the day:
The US delivers another batch of 6 highspeed patrol boats - 45-foot Metal Shark. Top speed 35 kn. Worth $20 million.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...am-amid-deepening-security-ties-idUSKCN1RD1YA






The 45-foot Metal Shark patrol boat, the type delivered by the US to Vietnam in 2017. Image: Metal Shark

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## Viet

Vietnam is to sign an intergovernmental agreement with Russia for the use of Glonass satellite navigation system.
The agreement will enable Vietnam warships to guide missiles such as Kh35 antiship ship missiles, range 260 km, more precise towards targets. Glonass will become fully operational 2023.






Giàn phóng tên lửa Kh-35 Uran-E trên tàu hộ tống Project 12418 của Hải quân Nhân dân Việt Nam

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## xiao qi

*Boeing official says Vietnam military drone deal almost done*
By Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition in Malaysia.






"The sale is in progress," British security magazine _Jane’s_ quoted him as saying.

The number of UAVs to be bought is not known.

Yeong said the deal is as an indicator of Boeing’s defense sales strategy in newer regional markets like Vietnam, where opportunities to grow its defense presence is "being pursued through lower-tier platforms."

The drone can operate above 15,000 feet and hover over a battlefield for extended missions of up to 20 hours, depending on system configuration.

The five-foot-long ScanEagle UAV has a 10-foot wingspan and can operate in land and maritime environments.

In February the U.S.’s Indo-Pacific Command chief, Admiral Phil Davidson, said in a statement that Vietnam is acquiring equipment from the U.S., including Boeing Insitu ScanEagle UAVs, Beechcraft T-6 Texan II trainer aircraft and a second decommissioned US Coast Guard cutter.

In August last year a local newspaper quoted an unnamed U.S. State Department official as saying that Vietnam had signed contracts to buy U.S. military equipment worth $94.7 million.

Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry has neither confirmed nor denied the information.

Last March the USS Carl Vinson arrived in Da Nang on a historic visit, the first to Vietnam by an American aircraft carrier since 1975. During its visit, the U.S. delivered six Metal Shark patrol boats to Vietnam.

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/b...-military-drone-deal-almost-done-3901778.html

@Viet long time no see

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## Viet

He sis @xiao qi how are things going? 
I haven’t seen you for a while.


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## Viet

Came across by a news. Parliament speaker Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan upon arrival to Paris, is greeted by the French military. The French army and military complex should engage more in the region.

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## Viet

Vietnam needs billions of dollars to clear all bombs and mines left from wars | #AsiaNewsNetwork
LATEST ISSUES





PUBLISHED 3 APRIL 2019


https://elevenmyanmar.com/news/viet...ombs-and-mines-left-from-wars-asianewsnetwork

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## TenLua

Viet said:


> Myanmar military looking to strengthen ties with Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> By Mizzima
> 29 March 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnamese soldiers of an army defense unit march during a parade marking 70th anniversary of National Day at a street in Hanoi, Vietnam. Photo: Minh Hoang/EPA
> 
> 
> The Armed Forces of Myanmar wish to strengthen the friendship and comprehensive cooperation with the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA), a Myanmar military officer has said, according to a Vietnamplus report.
> 
> Brigadier General Aung Zeya, Myanmar’s military, naval and air force attaché to Vietnam, made the statement at a Hanoi banquet on March 27 hosted by the Myanmar Embassy in Vietnam on the occasion of the 74th founding anniversary of Myanmar’s Armed Forces.
> 
> Attending the event, Major General Ngo Minh Tien, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the VPA, said that in the context of the fruitfully developing bilateral relations, the ties between the VPA and Myanmar’s Armed Forces have continuously been consolidated and promoted.



There is only one place for myanmar, and that is to be conquered.


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## GraveDigger388

TenLua said:


> There is only one place for myanmar, and that is to be conquered.


So much for being "the most laid back person in the forum"....

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## IblinI

GraveDigger388 said:


> So much for being "the most laid back person in the forum"....


Hahahahahahahaha...


----------



## Viva_Viet

TenLua said:


> There is only one place for myanmar, and that is to be conquered.


not easy, Myanmar drop bomb and killed CNese, and everyone remain silent .....


----------



## Viet

*Vietnam an Important Indo-Pacific Partner*
APRIL 3, 2019 | BY DAVID VERGUN 
US Department of Defense

1
The U.S. considers Vietnam a valued partner in the region.




2
Vietnam's armed forces consist of the Vietnam People's Army, the Vietnam People's Public Security and the Vietnam Civil Defense Force. The VPA includes ground forces, a navy and an air force, with 450,000 active-duty personnel. If paramilitary forces are included, the total military population is around 5 million.





3
Vietnam is a member of the United Nations, Association of Southeast Asian Nations, Non-Aligned Movement, International Organisation of the Francophonie, and the World Trade Organization.






4
A forecast by PricewaterhouseCoopers states that Vietnam could be the fastest growing of the world's emerging economies.


----------



## Viet

Washington wants to send Aircraft carrier for port visit on regular basis to Vietnam.


https://worldview.stratfor.com/situ...shington-aims-regular-aircraft-carrier-visits


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## Viet

Missile Frigate 012 Lý Thai To pays a port visit to Myanmar.


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## TenLua

GraveDigger388 said:


> So much for being "the most laid back person in the forum"....



I’m honored that you would consider me for such a title; I must decline, however.



YuChen said:


> Hahahahahahahaha...



And the fk are you laughing at?


----------



## Viet

Coming today across with an article on China missile threat. It’s primarily assessed the implications on Korean Peninsula but contains some interesting details:
China deploys 3 missile Corps in bracket () as main theater: 51 (Japan), 52 (Taiwan) and 53 (Vietnam) with 5 missile brigades each.

http://en.asaninst.org/contents/imp...listic-missiles-for-korean-national-security/

The colors red, blue, and yellow respectively indicate ICBM bases, MRBM bases, and SRBM bases.







Distance of missiles to possible targets in Japan, Vietnam, Philippines and Western Pacific


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## GraveDigger388

TenLua said:


> I’m honored that you would consider me for such a title; I must decline, however.



With how much you talked about weed, one might assume that such title would be self-proclaimed...

Oh well


----------



## Viet

New generation of Vietnam made synthetic kevlar helmets will gradually replace old models in the army. The new lightweight Kevlar can withstand high powered projectiles of caliber 9 mm.


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## TenLua

GraveDigger388 said:


> With how much you talked about weed, one might assume that such title would be self-proclaimed...
> 
> Oh well



Wrong assumption; your problem. If you were smart you would have kept that to yourself. Since you spoke your terrible judgement is now apparent. Drop in a fetal position and repent for your transgressions.


----------



## GraveDigger388

TenLua said:


> Wrong assumption; your problem. If you were smart you would have kept that to yourself. Since you spoke your terrible judgement is now apparent. Drop in a fetal position and repent for your transgressions.


Heh, yeah right


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## Aqsuperman

Navy diplomacy

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## Viet

@Aung Zaya 

Food is served

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## Aung Zaya

Viet said:


> @Aung Zaya
> 
> Food is served


 like it ?! it's mont lone yay paw.. very traditional food.


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## TenLua

Aung Zaya said:


> like it ?! it's mont lone yay paw.. very traditional food.



Whats it taste like?


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## Viet

*Vietnam 'quietly upgrades' facilities in West Philippine Sea*
(UPDATED) Vietnam is not 'facing the same reaction from China's maritime militia forces as the Philippines recently has,' says the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative 

https://www.rappler.com/authorprofile/paterno-esmaquel
*Paterno Esmaquel II *
@paterno_ii 
Published 4:40 PM, April 10, 2019







VIETNAM UPGRADES. Vietnam is quietly upgrading its facilities in the Spratly Islands, says the Washington-based Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Photo courtesy of AMTI/CSIS/DigitalGlobe 



MANILA, Philippines (UPDATED) – Vietnam has quietly upgraded its facilities in the Spratly Islands in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) since mid-2017, the Washington-based Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) said on Wednesday, April 10.

"Vietnam continues to quietly upgrade its facilities in the Spratly Islands, though apparently without facing the same reaction from China's maritime militia forces as the Philippines recently has," the AMTI said in an update dated Monday, April 8, and emailed to subscribers on Wednesday, April 10.

AMTI, which is part of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, noted that Vietnam "occupies 49 outposts spread across 27 features in the vicinity of the Spratly Islands."

The think tank said Vietnam "undertook an expansion" in the Spratlys "to extend its small runway and create a protected harbor." Vietnam "created about 40 acres of new land" through "the use of construction equipment to dredge up part of the reef surrounding the island and cover it in sand."

“This process was more time-consuming and less environmentally disastrous than the methods used for China's industrial-scale dredging and landfill at its facilities in the Spratlys, but still involved the intentional destruction of coral reef," AMTI said.

Vietnam's upgrades included the finishing touches on an airstrip, construction of communications facilities, and drainage channels.

"It seems that regardless of external factors, whether amid negotiations and relative calm or tensions and threats of violence, Hanoi is committed to a steady but modest expansion of its capabilities in and around the Spratly Islands," AMTI said.

"Vietnam has not attempted to engage in the same large-scale militarization of its features as China; there is no sign of facilities built to house attack aircraft, for instance. Instead, Hanoi's upgrades seem geared toward expanding its ability to monitor and patrol contested waters and, especially in the case of its pillbox and DK1 platforms, improve living conditions and ensure it can resupply by air if necessary," it added.

In a message to Rappler on Wednesday evening, AMTI director Gregory Poling said: "It wouldn't be surprising if Manila filed a protest against some Vietnamese activities, for instance at Spratly Island. Vietnam does the same when the Philippines does certain things in the Spratlys. That is about establishing a record of non-compliance with the other's claims."

"But again, it's a whole different issue than the changes to the status quo orchestrated by Beijing, which present a clear threat to Filipino access to disputed waters," Poling said.

He added, "It should also be noted that many of Vietnam's upgrades are in underwater areas to the southwest that are not part of Kalayaan Islands claimed by Manila. Only Beijing and Taipei pretend those underwater features are part of the Spratlys."

AMTI earlier noted "initial Philippine efforts to start runway repairs" on Pag-asa Island in May 2018. In response, the think tank said China deployed its maritime militia to the vicinity of Pag-asa Island.

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said last Thursday, April 4, that he will not allow China to occupy Pag-asa Island, while the Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs said the presence of Chinese militia there is "illegal." Critics however said Duterte's friendliness toward China has led to an increase in China's incursions in the West Philippine Sea. *– Rappler.com*

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## Aqsuperman

Courtesy from AMTI

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## warzone

*Former naval commando arrested for pulverizing debt collectors in northern Vietnam*





https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/society...ebt-collectors-in-northern-vietnam/49587.html

VPA combat training isn’t that bad after all. Even retired, the dude still have his skill sets learned in VN army.

His combat training was a lot more useful for real life situations than competing for medals at shooting no moving targets in a relaxing environment, hein?!?


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## TenLua

warzone said:


> *Former naval commando arrested for pulverizing debt collectors in northern Vietnam*
> View attachment 552733
> 
> 
> https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/society...ebt-collectors-in-northern-vietnam/49587.html
> 
> VPA combat training isn’t that bad after all. Even retired, the dude still have his skill sets learned in VN army.
> 
> His combat training was a lot more useful for real life situations than competing for medals at shooting no moving targets in a relaxing environment, hein?!?



Meh. Its not the training, its the individual. No videos? Boooooo


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## Viet

*Two Indian naval ships to make port call in Vietnam*
Friday, 12 April 2019 | PTI | Hanoi 








Two Indian naval ships will be making a port call at Vietnam from April 13 to 16 as part of an ongoing operational deployment in the Southeast Asian region.

INS Kolkata and INS Shakti, under the command of Captain Aditya Hara, will arrive in Cam Ranh International port on Saturday, the Indian Embassy in Hanoi said in a statement on Friday.

During the visit, there will be professional interaction between personnel of the Indian Navy and Vietnam People's Navy.

Official calls and interaction with dignitaries of the Vietnamese government as well as guided tours and sports events for the visiting Indian Navy personnel have also been planned, the statement said.

A visit to the Indian Ships will also be organised for friends of India in Khanh Hoa province.

Following the completion of harbour phase of activities, both the navies would conduct joint exercises.

India-Vietnam relations have grown stronger in recent years due to a vibrant economic engagement and growing convergence on political, regional and security issues.

In 2016, during the official visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to Vietnam, the relations between the two countries were elevated to the level of 'Comprehensive Strategic Partnership'.

Vietnamese Prime Ministerr Nguyen Xuan Phuc visited India in January 2018 as a guest at the Republic Day Parade and took part in the ASEAN-India Commemorative Summit.

This was followed by a State Visit by the then President of Vietnam, Tran Dai Quang, to India in March 2018. President Ram Nath Kovind paid a State Visit to Vietnam in November 2018.

"These high-level visits followed by regular exchanges from defence services have added momentum into ongoing bilateral defence and security cooperation," the embassy said.

Bilateral defence cooperation is a vital component of the 'Comprehensive Strategic Partnership' between India and Vietnam.

The Indian Navy has extensive interactions with Vietnam People's Navy, particularly in the field of training, repairs, maintenance and logistics support aimed at capacity building.

Earlier this month, in a series of ships' port calls between two countries, an Indian Coast Guard ship ICGS VIJIT paid a port call to Danang from April 1 to 4.

"There is growing convergence between India and Vietnam on various regional and international issues. Both countries are committed to building a peaceful and prosperous Asia and the Indo-Pacific region on the basis of respect for national sovereignty and international law as well as freedom of navigation, overflight and unimpeded economic activities.

"The current visit seeks to enhance bilateral maritime cooperation and will further bolster the strong bonds of friendship between the two countries and contribute to security and stability in the region and the world at large," the statement added.

dailpioneer.com

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## Viet

Border defense units receive modern Vietnam-made Galil ace31 assault rifles, replacing traditional Kalashnikov.




Via QPVN.




Parts for the Galil ACE 31 and 32 are made in this factory using CNC machines.


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## Aqsuperman

Cam Ranh Port receive another visit from Indian Navy

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## TenLua

Man yall a buncha lil girls n shit. I talk a little shit and bitches be like,” i dont wanna talk to you so NYaH!” Whatever.


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## Viet

Missile frigates 011 and 015 are scheduled to attend China’s international fleet review in the Yellow Sea on April 23. Not bad if the navy has bigger capital ships in the future for such event. Destroyer or something similar.

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## Viet

Frigate 015
on route to the Yellow Sea













Cadets sailship 286 is leaving home port Nga Trang, on route to Singapore and Indonesia.


















New digital camo
too colorful I believe
Grey is usually better.

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## Viet

where is the rifle?

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## Aqsuperman

Cam Ranh Port is busy this time of year. A Russian flotilla just in for a 4 day visit.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Cam Ranh Port is busy this time of year. A Russian flotilla just in for a 4 day visit.


The warships paid unannounced visit. Too bad: Russia ist just a shadow of itself after the collapse of USSR. Russia/Vietnam military alliance would still exist today.


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## Viet

Elizabeth Pham, Leutnant, the first ever female F18 fighter pilot of the US Marine Corps







Congrats for being promoted to Major 

























Marine Corps Captain Elizabeth Pham, was born in Seattle, Washington. As if being a high school valedictorian and college honors graduate from the University of San Diego, were not enough, Elizabeth Pham chose a quite unusual career route for a young Vietnamese-American woman – U.S. fighter pilot.

Not for weakling. Before another bombing mission over Iraq.

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## Viet

Vietnam is one of top three countries (among with India and Azerbaijan) of Israeli $9.2 billion arms sales in 2018.





Tel Aviv (AsiaNews / Agencies)

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/-Isr...ry-exports,-a-7.5-billion-business-46801.html

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam - India Naval Exercise. VPN participants include Gepard class frigate and Molniya missile boat

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## Viet

Admiral Philip S. Davidson, Commander of the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command on a visit to Vietnam. The frequency of US warships and aircraft carriers look to increase. Vietnam can expect some nice flowers and military support if Vietnam is under attack in return.








Slowly but steady, Vietnam strengthens presence in the highsea.





aerial view of Southwest Cay





floating guard station


“The Vietnamese endgame seems to be making these facilities more survivable, raising the cost for the Chinese to try to take them,” says Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative Director, Gregory Poling.


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## Viet

On the occasion of 70 anniversary of Laotian armed forces, Laos received the first batch of made-in-Vietnam Galil ace31/32 assault rifles.






Đại diện BQP Việt Nam bàn giao súng trường Galil ACE cho nước bạn Lào. Ảnh: Truyền






Súng Galil ACE "Made in Vietnam" sẽ xuất hiện trong Lễ duyệt binh kỷ niệm 70 năm


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## Viet

Uncle Kim Jong Un plays Dan Bau, a traditional Vietnamese musical instrument. He may visit Vietnam again as the US floats the idea of another summit.







25 Vietnamese students that attend Russia military academy Mozhaysky are reportedly safe following an explosion in the compound.












The US government launches the largest ever dioxins eradication campaign that will last over a decade in Vietnam. $183 million is allocated.






Adm. Philip Davidson, the commander of US IndoPacific theater pays a visit to the army headquarters. Interesting discussions, I guess. Davidson describes the Chinese as „paranoid“. He asks the US Congress for additional $22 billion to buy submarines and destroyers to counter chinese policy of intimidation in the region. I don’t think Vietnam has any objections.

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam Gepard frigate in China for the PLAN 70th anniversary along with ships from Japan, India, Russia and others.

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## Aqsuperman

One word: Foggy.


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## Viet

*How Vietnam Became Donald Trump’s Forever War*

Absent from his generation’s signature conflict, he turned Vietnam into an ideological battlefield he has returned to repeatedly.


By MICHAEL KRUSE

02/26/2019 05:03 AM EST

Michael Kruse is a senior staff writer for Politico.





Getty Images

For Donald Trump, Vietnam never ended.

Conventional wisdom says Trump sluiced through the fractious late 1960s relatively unmoved, shirt-and-tie focused on the family’s real estate business and trying to turn his father’s wealth into some of his own. Even now, at the start of his third year as president, and heading to Hanoi for his second summit with North Korean despot Kim Jong Un, conversations about Trump and Vietnam typically start and finish with how he skirted getting drafted, or what he said about John McCain, or perhaps his habit of likening his sexual promiscuity to the dangers of combat.

But over the years, as the United States as a whole struggled to move on from the psychological trauma of his generation’s signature conflict, Trump did not let go of Vietnam. In his invocations of the place, the war and its resonance as a fissure in modern American history, Trump has mined a rich and useful vein, presenting himself variously as charitable, virile, lucky and tough. But more than even that, Trump has deployed Vietnam as a bedrock tenet of his rudimentary worldview: We don’t win anymore.

“Weakness,” Tony Schwartz, who spent hundreds of hours with Trump while writing the words for The Art of the Deal, told me, “is Trump’s greatest fear.” As such, in the estimation of Schwartz, the takeaway of the war in Vietnam was viscerally unsettling, “his worst fear writ large—that the enemy, with far less money and resources, would figure out a way to outwit the Goliath.” In this telling, the Goliath is the U.S., but Trump himself, too—and the humbling retreat in 1975 was not only a national wound, Schwartz suggested, but a personal affront. And over time he has turned that grievance into an appeal that clicked with a constituency that shared his frustration. “He is always trolling for sore spots, unresolved issues, places to egg on grudges and resentments,” biographer Gwenda Blair told me, “and Vietnam is no exception.”

Trump graduated from college at the utter apex of the war. The day of his 1968 commencement at the Wharton business school, at the University of Pennsylvania, 40 American soldiers were killed. That year would become the bloodiest of the war. More than half a million of his peers were fighting in Vietnam. Trump, 22, fit and strong, didn’t join them. He “wasn’t a fan of the Vietnam War,” and he also “wasn’t a marcher,” he has said. “I had other things to do.” He has often cited the fortune of a high draft lottery number, but that’s not the reason he didn’t go; the lottery didn’t even beginuntil December 1969. Trump didn’t go, like many men his age, because of four education deferments—and then, more consequentially, a medical deferment in the fall of ‘68 due to a since-much-discussed set of heel spurs. In any event, while a Princeton-educated lieutenant named Robert Swan Mueller III was leading a platoon of Marines in the thick of searing combat, Trump was back in his father’s office in Brooklyn, collecting rent and planning his move to Manhattan.

“Trump was AWOL from the Vietnam generation. He didn’t protest in the streets of America or go to Southeast Asia,” presidential historian Douglas Brinkley told me. This, however, Brinkley quickly added, did not mean Trump was unaware of what was happening. The country seemed to be cleaving into two, and President Richard Nixon remained popular at the time, and those two things were not unrelated. Trump is not a conservative in the mold of Ronald Reagan, said Brinkley, assessing his most important political influences. “He’s a Nixonian culture wars guy.”

And Vietnam, the war, its veterans and what citizens of this country thought of them or did or didn’t do for them became the crucible of those culture wars.

In the middle of the 1980s, in the wake of the career-making opening of Trump Tower, Trump co-chaired the New York Vietnam Veterans Memorial Commission and gave his time (albeit sporadically, some said) and money ($1 million) in the effort to build the city’s memorial along the East River. “I was a very strong opponent of the Vietnam War,” he told the Times at the dedication in May of 1985, “but I also recognized that the people who went to fight were great Americans. I always thought they got a bad shake in life and never got their just recognition.”

A decade later, though, on the Howard Stern Show, Trump compared that service and sacrifice with his post-divorces dating capers.

“Dating is like being in Vietnam,” he said in 1993.

The danger of dating, he said in 1997, was the possibility of contracting a sexually transmitted disease. “My own personal Vietnam,” he explained. “I feel like a great and very brave soldier.”

Two years after that, when he was talking about running for president as a Reform Party candidate, Trump for the first time was asked about Vietnam in a specifically political context.

“Did you serve in the military,” Tim Russert askedhim on “Meet the Press” in October of 1999.

“I did not.”

“What reason?”

“Well, I got very lucky. We had lottery numbers, and I guess this was my biggest factor of luck in my life …”

“The Vietnam War build-up in 1965,” Chris Matthews said to Trump the following month on MSNBC. “Would you have done that?”

His blunt response in retrospect was an initial glimpse at two of the animating themes of his zero-sum foreign policy. Brawn. With a strain of isolationism. “Vietnam was a disaster,” Trump told Matthews. “It was too far away. It didn’t affect us. I guess if you do it, you have to go to win. We didn’t go to win. But I think Vietnam would have been a good place for us to stay out of.”

In 2005 and ’06, enjoying his spiking, Apprentice-amped celebrity and talking again to shock jocks instead of political pundits, Trump commented on America’s growing crisis in Iraq with additional references to Vietnam.

“Remember in Vietnam when we used to say, there used to be a certain group that would say, ‘Declare victory and leave’?” Trump told Don Imus. “Well, that sounds like one here—‘declare victory and leave,’” he said, advocating essentially for the military version of a familiar Trump tactic.

“Iraq is the biggest disaster ever,” he said to Stern.

“Disaster?” Stern said.

“It’s making Vietnam look like a good war,” Trump said.

Finally, in 2008, in what now feels like a frivolous interlude, Miss Universe, which Trump at the time co-owned with NBC, held its annual pageant in Nha Trang, Vietnam. The winner was Miss Venezuela. Rounding out the top five were Miss Colombia, Miss Dominican Republic, Miss Mexico and Miss Russia. For the second straight year, during the evening gown portion of the competition, Miss USA slipped and fell. An ascendant Lady Gaga sang a song. Jerry Springer was one of the hosts. Donald Trump Jr. was one of the judges. His famous father, though, wasn’t there, later explaining to Stern that the plane flight was too long.

It wasn’t until Trump started to really run for president that the primacy of Vietnam’s role in his life began to come into fuller focus. The ways he used it were revealing. “It’s not like he’s particularly interested in Vietnam as a country,” Charlie Laderman, a historian at King’s College London and one of the authors of the 2017 book, Donald Trump: The Making of a World View, told me. “It’s something he’s able to utilize.”

First, he recalled on occasion his work on the memorial in New York. “Every time I see a vet, and especially a Vietnam vet, they say, ‘Mr. Trump, thank you for the memorial,’” he said at a rally in Iowa, for instance, six weeks into his candidacy. (That was exactly a week after he had said McCain was “not a war hero” and was considered one “because he was captured” but that he preferred people who “weren’t captured.”)

Second, and throughout his erratic but effective campaign, he cast Vietnam as the latest addition to the roster of countries taking advantage of the U.S. “Another one,” he said in a speech in Iowa. “A new one,” he said in South Carolina. “A new hot one,” he said in Connecticut.

More than anything else, though, he used the war in Vietnam and its sad, wrenching consequences to undergird the gut-level oomph of Make America Great Again.

For Trump the setting and the stakes were new. The thought certainly was not. At New York Military Academy, the stern, upstate school he attended from 8th grade on, Trump imbibed the mantra of “in it to win it,” Peter Ticktin, one of his classmates, told me. That, Ticktin said, applied to Americans and America. “It was the feeling of supremacy that this country had in the 1950s,” Trump said to graduating students in a speech at Lehigh University in 1988. “It was a feeling of supremacy. It really was. And I had—I didn’t know it well—I was very young at that point—and I didn’t know the feeling of supremacy. I’ve known that since the Vietnam War …”

Now, though, as his bid for president built, he bored down on this idea.

“So,” he said in New Hampshire, “when I was young and went to school, I had always heard we never lost, this country, we never lost a war, you know, World War I, World War II, we—we just didn’t lose wars. And since then, I mean, when you think of it, you look at Vietnam …”

“Prior to Vietnam, we never lost a war, right?” he said in Tennessee. “Vietnam was a loss. Nothing else you can call it. And then after that, we now—we don’t even think about winning.”

“Since Vietnam,” he said in Ohio, “we don’t win anymore.”

As president, in addition to attacking on TwitterSenator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, whom he’s dubbed “Da Nang Dick,” Trump has hosted the Vietnamese prime minister at the White House, where he credited Nguyen Xuan Phuc with having “done a spectacular job.” This will be Trump’s second visit to Vietnam, where he’s more popular than he is at home. On his first visit, in November of 2017, he met again with Phuc and also met with some American veterans. They were, he said, “special, special people,” “great, great warriors” and “tough, smart cookies.”

“Like many of that era, he has been fixated on Vietnam ever since,” Trump biographer Michael D’Antonio told me this week. “Those who didn’t serve carry guilt and resentment over the feelings of guilt. Trump isn’t the type to get over anything let alone this issue.”

And he continues to process it in the way he processes nearly everything. “In a way,” added fellow biographer Blair, “it’s as if he’s an ongoing, one-man focus group, constantly trying things out and seeing how they play in terms of his own self-interest.”

What struck Laderman the most in his research for his book was the apparent lack of importance of ideals or values in the formation of Trump’s foreign policy and overall view of the world. With respect to Vietnam specifically, according to Laderman, what seemed to trouble Trump was not that the defeat was (as many conservatives saw it) a setback in the broader Cold War struggle or (as many liberals saw it) an undermining of America’s positioning as a global promoter of human rights. “It all really does,” Laderman said, “come back to power in a very naked sense.”

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## Viet

Make old to new!

S125 anti aircraft missile system

New fire control system SNR-125-2TM can detect enemy airplanes 100 km away. Missile computing only needs 3 seconds to lock a target.

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## Viet

Cadets sailship 286/Lê Quý Đôn makes Port call to Singapore.



























@Mista 
@sinait

famous Singapore street food can only be beaten by Vietnam street food

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## sinait

Viet said:


> Cadets sailship 286/Lê Quý Đôn makes Port call to Singapore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Mista
> @sinait
> 
> famous Singapore street food can only be beaten by Vietnam street food





> famous Singapore street food can only be beaten by Vietnam street food


Cannot make a fair comparison as Singapore street food is multi-racial with Chinese, Malay, Indian, Eurasian and Chinese Peranakan mix.

I ever do sailing on a large double masted cutter, supposedly ocean going capable.
Very fun until hell of difficult to row when there is no wind with a hot sun.
Not fun as well when sailing in a storm, terribly cold and wet.
.

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## Viet

The coast guard’s new class of search and rescue vessels CN09.
Weight 160 ton, speed 20 kn, lightweight strengthened steel. Vessel can run at full speed continuously for 24 hours or maximum 10 days at speeds of 9-10 kn. Capable to withstand hard storms. Can tow other vessel with a tonnage of up to 3,000 tons.
















Tàu được trang bị hệ động lực gồm 2 động cơ diezen do Mỹ sản xuất.





Tàu tuần tra CN09 là loại tàu hiện đại nhất mà Biên phòng.

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## IAmBamboo

I know Vietnam domestically produces some body armor, but I've only seen this one which I haven't been able to find much info about




Does anyone know if these are being used in the army? Also if this armor has a name?
I am curious to find out what type of body armor the army uses

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## Aqsuperman

IAmBamboo said:


> I know Vietnam domestically produces some body armor, but I've only seen this one which I haven't been able to find much info about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if these are being used in the army? Also if this armor has a name?
> I am curious to find out what type of body armor the army uses



Welcome to the PDF 

For your question, it's hard to obtain much information about the body armor that our army uses beside what mainstream medial already cover. Considering the secrecy nature of the PAVN, the only way to know for sure is to wait for a war to break out :v

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## Aqsuperman

*Singapore, South Korea to co-host maritime security exercise*







A major maritime security field training exercise organised by Singapore and South Korea will start tomorrow.

The exercise is part of efforts to strengthen cooperation within the Asean Defence Ministers' Meeting-Plus (ADMM-Plus), which comprises the Asean countries (Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam send ships while Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Myanmar send observers) as well as Australia, China, Japan, India, South Korea, New Zealand, Russia and the United States.

The Ministry of Defence (Mindef) said the exercise, which will end on May 13, will involve 16 ships, six aircraft and about 700 personnel from the 18 countries. Participants will conduct a series of professional exchanges ashore, as well as maritime security drills in the waters off South Korea and Singapore.


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## Viet

IAmBamboo said:


> I know Vietnam domestically produces some body armor, but I've only seen this one which I haven't been able to find much info about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if these are being used in the army? Also if this armor has a name?
> I am curious to find out what type of body armor the army uses


The Vietnamese inscription says “protective vest, weight 2.2 kg, production year 2010”, other data as serial number, charge, size are not readable.

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## IAmBamboo

Aqsuperman said:


> Welcome to the PDF
> 
> For your question, it's hard to obtain much information about the body armor that our army uses beside what mainstream medial already cover. Considering the secrecy nature of the PAVN, the only way to know for sure is to wait for a war to break out :v





Viet said:


> The Vietnamese inscription says “protective vest, weight 2.2 kg, production year 2010”, other data as serial number, charge, size are not readable.



I see! Although I understand their secrecy, I really wish they would share more as it is very interesting. If Vietnam can produce body armor, I wonder what else they can produce! Thanks for the info

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## sahureka2

this Russian article, indicates an interest in Vietnam for the SU-57E, you have more information about this news
https://topwar.ru/157413-vetnam-proignoriroval-su-35.html

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## Viet

IAmBamboo said:


> I see! Although I understand their secrecy, I really wish they would share more as it is very interesting. If Vietnam can produce body armor, I wonder what else they can produce! Thanks for the info


Vietnam defence budget is low. Very low. It’s about $5.1 billion this year, expectedly will rise to $7.9 billion by 2024. Considering a certain external threat we are facing, the budget should be 10 times higher, at least to the level of Japan, but it’s unrealistic for a obvious reason. So best hope is to develop a domestic military complex to make things cheaper.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vietnamese-defense-industry-outlook-2019-095445790.html

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## Aqsuperman

sahureka2 said:


> this Russian article, indicates an interest in Vietnam for the SU-57E, you have more information about this news
> https://topwar.ru/157413-vetnam-proignoriroval-su-35.html



Unfortunately, the current trend in the VPAF is more Su-30 and aim for Su-35 in the near future. Though I think that Su-57 would be a nice addition, such an aircraft need more times to mature.

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## Viet

A photo from a previous Russia-Vietnam defense engagement.
*

What’s in Russia’s New Military Facility in Vietnam?*
A new maintenance center spotlights some of the ongoing defense collaboration by the two sides and Moscow’s desire to strengthen its security footprint in the wider region.

The diplomat 
thediplomat.com


Last week, a Russian state-owned defense firm officially announced the start of operations for a new maintenance facility in Vietnam. The development spotlighted some of the ongoing collaboration between the two sides despite the wider challenges that have been evident in the defense aspect of the relationship in recent years.

As I have observed before in these pages, Vietnam and Russia have a defense relationship that dates back to the Cold War. Despite some challenges for ties as Vietnam engages newer partners such as the United States and Russia’s regional and international behavior attracts greater scrutiny, some advances in this realm of ties have continued as Hanoi continues to modernize its military and Moscow seeks a stronger defense presence in the broader Asia-Pacific.

That has been evident over the past year or so as well, whether it be headlines about new Vietnamese orders of Russian equipment – with Moscow traditionally being Vietnam’s biggest partner in this respect – or visits and exchanges that have reinforced the continued significance of the relationship for both sides.

One of the aspects of Russia-Vietnam defense collaboration that has received attention in recent years is the potential for the setting up of new maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facilities in Vietnam. These facilities have been viewed as not just part of routine maintenance of Russian equipment in Vietnam – a key issue with some Russian equipment more generally – but a wider effort to utilize initial buys of Russian equipment as stepping stones towards wider defense collaboration.

A case in point came last October, when UEC-Klimov, a subsidiary of the United Engine Corporation which is part of Rostec, and the Vietnamese company Helicopter Technical Service Company, signed a distribution contract concerning service maintenance of engines. The agreement paved the way for potential next steps, including the setting up of a center to perform the services that were described.

Last week, this aspect of Russia-Vietnam defense ties was in the headlines again with the official announcement of the opening of a new helicopter engine facility in Vietnam related to the agreement inked last October. Russian defense industrial group Rostec announced the opening of what essentially constituted a new helicopter engine MRO facility in Vietnam.

Per Rostec in an April 22 statement, the MRO center – characterized as a “integrated logistics support center for repairing helicopter engines” – had begun operations in the Vietnamese city of Vũng Tàu, an area where the Vietnam People’s Air Force (VPAF) and some commercial operators have bases. The facility, set up by UEC-Klimov, is equipped with “all the necessary equipment, spare parts, and assemblies to provide repairs and engines designed by UEC-Klimov.” The facility operates on space occupied by Helicopter Technical Service Company, which provides service maintenance for Russian-made helicopters and acts as a distributor of the TB3-117 and VK-2500 engines that Russia is helping maintain.

While specifics remain unclear, the work that is proceeding at the facility includes some sharing of expertise as well as training. Rostec said the Russian side is providing spare parts and personnel training for engine and gearbox maintenance, while the Vietnamese side was providing support personnel to accompany the working process, with some of them having already received certificates from UEC-Klimov on successful familiarization with some aspects of the repair process. Repairs on the first helicopter engine had recently been completed at the facility, and that by the end of April, four more engines in use in Vietnam would go through repairs at the center.

Interestingly, Rostec itself cast the center as part of a regionwide effort, thereby playing into perceptions that this is part of a wider effort by Russia to strengthen defense collaboration with Asian states. Viktor Kladov, Rostec’s director for international cooperation and regional policy, said there were plans to expand helicopter repair and support services to India, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Australia, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka, in addition to Vietnam. Those sorts of broader strategic calculations only reinforce the importance of paying attention to these individual efforts undertaken by Russia in the region.


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## Viet

Samsung Elec Vietnam donated 300 pieces of new invented IGNIS thermal imaging cameras to Vietnam Fire and Rescue Police Department. Interesting piece of equipment. surviable in all extreme conditions, light weight, water/dust/heat resistant, camera able to detect humans in full darkness. good suitable for police, special ops, as well as military use, I believe. Vietnam just needs to acquire the technology.


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## nufix

Viet said:


> Vietnam defence budget is low. Very low. It’s about $5.1 billion this year, expectedly will rise to $7.9 billion by 2024. Considering a certain external threat we are facing, the budget should be 10 times higher, at least to the level of Japan, but it’s unrealistic for a obvious reason. So best hope is to develop a domestic military complex to make things cheaper.
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vietnamese-defense-industry-outlook-2019-095445790.html



7.9 bils by 2024? I thought Vietnam is already rich now?

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## Aqsuperman

Base on certain sources, VPA has received its newest assets from Israel: IAI Heron (unarmed) and IAI Eitan (armed). The operator is presumed to be the 954th Navy Aviation Brigade.

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## Viet

Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya (left) and his Vietnamese counterpart, Ngo Xuan Lich, pose for a photo Thursday before talks



*Japan and Vietnam defense ministers agree to peacefully tackle Beijing's South China Sea expansion*
JIJI, KYODO
MAY 3, 2019


HANOI - Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya and his Vietnamese counterpart, Ngo Xuan Lich, confirmed Thursday that the two countries will work together to peacefully resolve the issue of China’s rapid expansion in the South China Sea.

Meeting with Vietnam’s minister of defense in Hanoi, Iwaya also stressed the importance of steadily implementing U.N. Security Council sanctions resolutions against North Korea to realize the country’s denuclearization.

Iwaya asked for Vietnam’s support in resolving North Korea’s abductions of Japanese nationals decades ago.

Lich indicated Vietnam’s readiness to cooperate on the denuclearization issue.

“Japan hopes to further deepen ties with Vietnam in the era of Reiwa,” Iwaya said at the outset of talks with Lich, referring to the nation’s new imperial era under Emperor Naruhito, who ascended the throne Wednesday.

Lich expressed his congratulations over the succession, and told Iwaya that he hopes his visit to Vietnam will “contribute to pushing bilateral defense ties to a new stage.”

In line with Iwaya’s visit to Vietnam, the two countries’ defense authorities exchanged a memorandum of understanding stipulating the two governments’ intention to call for cooperation between the Japanese and Vietnamese defense industries.

Based on the MOU, cooperation is likely to be promoted in fields such as maritime security, humanitarian assistance, disaster relief and cybersecurity, sources with knowledge of the matter said.

Tensions remain high in the South China Sea, with China pushing its claims to almost the entire body of water — a vital shipping lane with rich fishing grounds and possibly large oil and natural gas deposits. Vietnam as well as Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan claim parts of the waters.

During the talks, Iwaya explained Japan’s latest national defense guidelines that were endorsed in December last year, which called China’s military activities in the South China Sea and surrounding waters “a serious security concern for the region including Japan and for the international community.”

Japan is locked in a territorial dispute with China in the East China Sea over the Japanese-controlled Senkaku Islands, which China calls Diaoyu.

The discussions in the Vietnamese capital were the first official talks between the two countries’ defense ministers since June last year.

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## Aqsuperman

Food, smile and chitchat. a night on HQ 286 Lê Quý Đôn

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## Viet

nufix said:


> 7.9 bils by 2024? I thought Vietnam is already rich now?


No worry once we get rich with a big stick you would not want to make funny comment here


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## Aqsuperman

Suit yourself 



waz said:


> @nufix no more posting here now please.



I would like the admin to take a look into this whole ordeal. This guy repeatedly spread the thread with unrelated stuff like:



nufix said:


> History as beggars: check
> History as incompetent people: check
> GDP among the lowest in ASEAN: check
> GDP per capita also among the lowest in ASEAN: check
> High level of fantasy (everything is based on "when", "if", once): check
> Known as home to illegal fishers: check
> Known to selling own daughters to some old white men or chinese: check
> Currency literally means penis in english: check



This is the second time. I hope that he got what his deserve this time.


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## Viet

@waz 
@The Eagle 

can you stop this troller nufix please?


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## gambit

nufix said:


> I was running a research. I want to understand the Vietnamese users better. Is it wrong to try understand how they think?
> 
> @waz
> @The Eagle


No, you are a troll in the truest sense of the word.


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## waz

nufix said:


> The list is based on their reactions. Troll would be like calling other humans as dogs or something like that.



I did warn you not come back to this thread. Now it’s a ban.

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## Aqsuperman

A toast to the moderator. Finally, some peace and quiet. Back to some related issues.

Damen Sông Cấm, a branch of Damen Group is contributing greatly to the shipbuilding industry of Vietnam. Recently, the company deliver 2 Vietnamese-built tug boats to Australia. The Vietnam Coast Guard already order a couple of DN 4000 from Damen Sông Cấm which would form the nucleus of its fleet in the future. Needless to say, these ships are optimized for RAAAAAAAMINNNGG SPPPEEEEDDDD.

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## Viet

waz said:


> I did warn you not come back to this thread. Now it’s a ban.


Thank waz

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## Viet

Good to know: the honorary guards are at least 1.8 meters high.
We should copy our big neighbor by adding females into the guards. Looks better not only because of equality reason.


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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> A toast to the moderator. Finally, some peace and quiet. Back to some related issues.
> 
> Damen Sông Cấm, a branch of Damen Group is contributing greatly to the shipbuilding industry of Vietnam. Recently, the company deliver 2 Vietnamese-built tug boats to Australia. The Vietnam Coast Guard already order a couple of DN 4000 from Damen Sông Cấm which would form the nucleus of its fleet in the future. Needless to say, these ships are optimized for RAAAAAAAMINNNGG SPPPEEEEDDDD.


Ok I can’t wait for delivery of those 4,000 ton ships but I believe cheaper if we cover the sea region by sea mines. 5,000 pieces should be enough to bring the entire $5 trillion commercial sea traffic to standstill.

Vietnam domestic made with three types of mines for different tastes.






Mìn neo MN-01





Thuỷ lôi KMP





Thuỷ lôi UĐM

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## Viet

General Ngô Xuân Lịch pays a visit to Ottawa. Vietnamese army may soon have the chance to train in Canada and other states of the NATO.

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## Viet

Aussie warships HMAS Canberra and HMAS Newcastle pay a visit to the Bay of Canranh.

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## Aqsuperman

A busy time for the Gepard fleet 

HQ 16 Quang Trung is off to Singapore

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## Viet

*Japan, Vietnam Teaming up to Resist China Expansion*
May 09, 2019 11:22 PM

Ralph Jennings





Japan's Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya answers a reporter's question during a meeting with Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan at the Pentagon, April 19, 2019, in Washington.



TAIPEI —
Japan is helping Vietnam build a defense against the larger, more militarily powerful China as Vietnam says Beijing’s forces are occupying more than their legal share of the South China Sea.

Japanese Defense Minister Takeshi Iwaya and his Vietnamese counterpart, Ngo Xuan Lich, met May 3 to “advance cooperation” on maritime security, Tokyo-based NHK television online said.

In October, the ministers met in Tokyo to discuss issues surrounding the South China Sea. They signed a “defense cooperation and exchange” memorandum that prescribed regular vice ministerial-level talks, the Japanese defense ministry website says.

Japan has been jousting with China over sovereignty in parts of the East China Sea, including a chain of uninhabited islets coveted by fishing fleets.

“Essentially there is an arc of anxiety stretching from New Delhi to Canberra and Jakarta and Hanoi and Tokyo,” said Jeffrey Kingston, history instructor at Temple University, Japan Campus. “So, I think that perhaps the rhetoric is aimed at signaling that there are collective, shared concerns that are leading towards a collective response.”





FILE - Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich, center, talks to then-Australian Defense Minister Marise Payne at the two-day ASEAN Defense Ministers Meeting, Oct. 24, 2017, north of Manila, Philippines.
*

Japan-Vietnam exchanges*

An agreement between the two countries opened the way for more Japanese ports of call in Vietnam, as well as technical cooperation on defense equipment for Vietnamese maritime surveillance, NHK reported.

It’s unclear how much Japan will donate to Vietnam directly, Kingston said. Japan’s public generally doesn’t support a more “assertive strategic” role for their government, he added, though a lot of people feel a “good vibe” toward Vietnam compared to China. Japanese laws also limit arms sales to other countries.

Japan could set up military exchanges, hold strategic dialogue and offer “naval defense equipment,” said Murray Hiebert, deputy director of the Southeast Asia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

“Vietnam is looking to Japan as a hedge as China militarizes the South China Sea, puts more pressure on Vietnam in their areas of dispute and presses Hanoi to abandon oil exploration activities, including on Vietnam’s continental shelf,” Hiebert said.





South China Sea Territorial Claims

*Sino-Vietnamese spats*

Beijing claims about 90% of the 3.5 million-square-kilometer South China Sea, stretching from the island of Borneo north to Hong Kong.

China and Vietnam clashed there in 1974 and in 1988. Five years ago, the two sides rammed each other’s boats over the positioning of a Chinese oil rig in waters that Vietnam claims. The incident touched off deadly anti-China rioting in Vietnam. The two countries dispute undersea gas-exploration tracts as well as the Paracel Islands, which China now controls.

Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan also claim sea tracts that China calls its own. Those governments value the waterway for its fisheries and undersea fuel reserves.

China raised alarms around Southeast Asia after 2010 by building up tiny islets for defense installations.

Japan began to step up support of its own interests around Asia. In 2017, an alliance including Japan, the United States, India and Australia began calling for China to leave the sea open for international use and increasing relations in Southeast Asia.

“The Japanese want to support the Vietnamese claims, but they don’t want to do it militarily,” said Stephen Nagy, senior associate politics and international studies professor at International Christian University in Tokyo. “What they’d rather do is build capacity, build interoperability and build a coalition of states that will stand by and try to enforce maritime law in the South China Sea.”





Passengers crowd check-in counters at Noi Bai Airport in Hanoi, Vietnam, July 29, 2016.
*
Evolving friendship*

Japanese ties with Vietnam started more than two decades ago when investors took advantage of the country’s low wages. Japanese automakers and other investors launched 3,320 projects in Vietnam worth a combined registered capital of $42.5 billion as of 2016.

Partly to support its industry and partly to offset Chinese economic influence in Southeast Asia, Japan now funds infrastructure projects in Vietnam.

A Japanese loan built the airport terminal in Hanoi, and Japanese aid funded the subway system being constructed in Ho Chi Minh City. Japanese official development aid to Vietnam had totaled 2.8 trillion yen ($25.5 billion) by 2016.

“I think these (military) actions expand the original economic field into the political field,” said Tai Wan-ping, Southeast Asia-specialized international business professor at Cheng Shiu University in Taiwan. “Japan’s military performance in Southeast Asia wasn’t proactive in the past.”

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## Viet

50 years ago, the battle of Hamburger Hill


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## Aqsuperman

*ADMM-Plus navies strengthen maritime security cooperation in multinational exercise*






Over the past two weeks, 19 ships and 10 aircraft from the 18 ASEAN Defence Ministers' Meeting (ADMM)-Plus nations worked together on a series of exercises to enhance their cooperation in the event of a transnational maritime security threat.

Held from 30 Apr to 13 May, the fourth Maritime Security Field Training Exercise (MS FTX) was co-organised by Singapore and the Republic of Korea (ROK).

"The exercise is a key milestone of Singapore and ROK's co-chairmanship of the ADMM-Plus Experts' Working Group on Maritime Security," said exercise co-director and Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) Head of Naval Operations Rear-Admiral (RADM) Edwin Leong.

"It brings our navies together to collaborate across a spectrum of maritime security operations...(and) enhances our collective capability to address maritime security threats in the region and to keep our sea lines of communication open and secure for all."

The sea phase of the MS FTX began in the waters off Busan, ROK. In one exercise scenario, a ship was suspected to be transporting armed personnel and dangerous weapons. 

A distress signal was picked up by the Information Fusion Centre (IFC) in Singapore, and the perpetrators were found to be uncooperative.

After receiving information from the IFC, ships from the various navies, including RSN frigate RSS _Stalwart_, quickly formed a cordon around the distressed ship. 

An ROK Navy (ROKN) Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) rappelled down via a Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter to apprehend the gunmen. At the same time, a boarding team from RSS _Stalwart_ was despatched to support the mission and swiftly secured the ship's engine room.

"I was impressed by the (boarding and search exercise). Even though the sea was rough, the Singapore boarding team could still do it very well," said Lieutenant Commander Le Thanh Binh from the Vietnam People's Navy, an observer on board landing ship tank ROKS _Cheonjabong_. 

"Nowadays, there are a lot of challenges and threats at sea…which cannot be addressed by any single nation (alone). So the collective multinational effort becomes more and more important," added the 35-year-old staff officer from the Division of Naval Operations, Navy Headquarters.

*Paving the Way for Practical Cooperation*

En route from ROK to Singapore, the ADMM-Plus navies carried out maritime security drills such as protection of key installations, helicopter cross-deck landings and replenishment at sea drills. They also practised the Code of Unplanned Encounters at Sea, and conducted information-sharing through the sense-making capabilities of the IFC to track vessels of interest.

On 12 May, the navies arrived at the waters off the eastern part of Singapore. 
Acting on information received through the earlier info-sharing exercises, boarding teams from the Singapore, Brunei, India and ROK navies conducted a search on a simulated hijacked ship. 

Working together with their international counterparts has been an eye-opening experience for the crew of RSS _Stalwart_. 

Despite the initial challenge of getting other navies on board with using the IFC's information-sharing system, communication supervisor Military Expert (ME) 2 Amy Tan, 31, was heartened to see how they worked together for the common goal of maritime security.

"With the help of IFC and (my) officers, we found ways to integrate everyone into using the system effectively. I've learnt how to work with the different navies, despite some communication barriers."

The closing ceremony of the ADMM-Plus MS FTX will be held at RSS _Singapura_ – Changi Naval Base on 13 May. It will be officiated by Singapore's Chief of Defence Force Lieutenant-General Melvyn Ong, and attended by exercise co-directors RADM Leong and ROKN Director Maritime Operations Center RADM Hwang Sun Woo.


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## Viet

Image Credit: U.S. Marine Corps photo by Lance Cpl. J.J. Harper 
*Vietnam Is the Chinese Military’s Preferred Warm-Up Fight*

At some point, the Chinese military will need to test its new capabilities – and Vietnam is likely the preferred adversary.

By Derek Grossman


https://thediplomat.com/2019/05/vietnam-is-the-chinese-militarys-preferred-warm-up-fight/

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## Aqsuperman

Vietnam Ka-27 at IMDEX 2019

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## Viet

Russian engines service centre in Vietnam
*UEC-Klimov opens a Russian engines service centre in Vietnam*

Posted on May 16th, 2019 by ES in Aerospace, Russia




Specialists from Vietnam have passed the mandatory intermediate-level maintenance certification for Russian engines (HeliTechCo)


St Petersburg’s UEC-Klimov, which is part of the United Engine Corporation, opened a Vietnam-based service and repair centre for the TV3-117 and VK-2500 helicopter engines in April of this year. The centre is located in the city of Vũng Tàu and has been certified by the aviation authorities of Vietnam. To date, five TV3-117 engines have been repaired at the base and are being operated in Vietnam.

The creation of the service centre was made possible by the maintenance and repair service contract signed with Vietnam’s MRO provider Helicopter Technical Service Company (HeliTechCo). It covers the TV3-117 and VK-2500 engines as well as the main rotor transmissions of Russian-built helicopters. Under the agreement, which covers 12 Asian countries, the Helicopter Technical Service Company becomes the distributor of the TV3-117 and VK-2500 turboshaft engines for Russian helicopters in Indonesia, Malaysia, Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Australia, India, China, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

In addition, the Vietnamese side has provided trained staff to support the work at the service centre, whereby local specialists have undergone compulsory technological procedure certification for the intermediate-level maintenance of the TV3-117 engine family and its various models. The Russian side, in turn, is supplying components and spare parts, whilst also providing training for staff for the maintenance of engines and main rotor transmissions.

As of October 2018, some 100 Russian helicopters, including Mi-8/17s and Ka-32s powered by the TV3-117 engines, are being operated in Vietnam. The VK-2500 engines are installed on new modifications of the Mi-8/17 helicopters.


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## Viet

Interesting graph: Vietnam possesses large rare earth reserves. Those minerals are used in smart phones, electric cars, hybrid cars, batteries, display panels and..weapon systems.


_

_


The military received new stuffs. little info available what stuffs but look promising.















Xe Zil-130 vẫn đang được bộ đội ta sử dụng dù đã đưa vào biên chế từ hàng





Xe vận tải Hyundai HD170 của Lữ đoàn 971 nhận hàng xong, chuẩn bị vận chuyển đi các quân khu, quân đoàn phía Bắc. Ảnh





Kiểm tra quân số và và xe máy sẵn sàng cơ động của Trung đoàn Vận tải














Các loại vũ khí tự hành đặt trên xe bánh xích M548. Ảnh: Truyền hình Thông tấn.


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## Viet

M548 gun truck










105mm gun truck










Artillery position

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## Viet

The army is testing new armor piercing 85 mm projectile with core made of tungsten alloy.











Armor piercing a) front; b) backside





Shot of a test plate (a) and the thickness of the steel plate (b)

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## IAmBamboo

I found out that Vietnam currently uses a helmet called the A2 Helmet that is made of hard plastic, I was curious to know if anyone knows if they would use any other helmets or would they actually use these A2 Helmets in combat? I assume they would only be for training

Also they look very close to the PASGT helmets, very cool


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## Aqsuperman

IAmBamboo said:


> I found out that Vietnam currently uses a helmet called the A2 Helmet that is made of hard plastic, I was curious to know if anyone knows if they would use any other helmets or would they actually use these A2 Helmets in combat? I assume they would only be for training
> 
> Also they look very close to the PASGT helmets, very cool



A2 is strictly use for field exercise + humanitarian missions. Would be funny if the VPA use that kind of helmet lol in actual war :b So far, VPA reservists use American M1, Soviet SSh-68, etc. The regular is presumed to have a stockpile of "self-produced helmets + armor vests"

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## TenLua

Aqsuperman said:


> A busy time for the Gepard fleet
> 
> HQ 16 Quang Trung is off to Singapore



Conquer that Godforsaken country while you’re there.



Viet said:


> Interesting graph: Vietnam possesses large rare earth reserves. Those minerals are used in smart phones, electric cars, hybrid cars, batteries, display panels and..weapon systems.
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _
> 
> 
> The military received new stuffs. little info available what stuffs but look promising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xe Zil-130 vẫn đang được bộ đội ta sử dụng dù đã đưa vào biên chế từ hàng
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xe vận tải Hyundai HD170 của Lữ đoàn 971 nhận hàng xong, chuẩn bị vận chuyển đi các quân khu, quân đoàn phía Bắc. Ảnh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kiểm tra quân số và và xe máy sẵn sàng cơ động của Trung đoàn Vận tải
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Các loại vũ khí tự hành đặt trên xe bánh xích M548. Ảnh: Truyền hình Thông tấn.



What difference does that make? Your leaders are a bunch of uneducated fuckwits who are going to give it all to china for fractions of pennies on the dollar. Vietnam can have all the wealth in the world-wouldn’t change a damn thing. Can’t even make your streets last for more than a month. Your bridges lack material and they collapse. Trash everywhere in the waterways (stupid sons of bitches can’t spare a few bucks to clean it up?) 

Problem with Vietnam isn’t money, its the dumbass fucking culture. You’ll put a dimwit twat in charge just because he’s your son, forget the guy with credentials.


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## Viet

*Australia's Vietnam: What really happened when the soldiers returned*
By Tom Richardson
May 24, 2019 — 12.15pm
https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...en-the-soldiers-returned-20190516-p51o2u.html


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## Viet

Vận tải cơ hạng trung C-130A Hercules thu được dưới dạng chiến lợi phẩm sau ngày đất nước thống nhất chính là loại máy bay lớn nhất từng phục vụ trong biên chế Không quân Nhân dân Việt Nam.





Việt Nam đã thu được 7 chiếc vận tải cơ C-130 của quân đội VNCH sau năm 1975





C-130A có chiều dài 29,8m; sải cánh 40,4 m; chiều cao 11,6m; trọng lượng rỗng 34.400kg; trọng lượng cất cánh tối đa 70.300kg





Ngay sau khi tiếp nhận những chiếc C-130, quân đội Việt Nam đã bổ sung ngay vào phi đội máy bay vận tải cơ phục vụ cho chiến trường

Vietnam seized 7 x C130 Hercules transport aircraft from Republican army in 1975.

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## Aqsuperman

Rare photos of Vietnamese delegates to Israel in the 1990s. The purpose of the trip is supposed to be the examination of Israel Tiran tank series (T-54/55/62 upgraded with Western equipment). Vietnam T-55M3 is likely the result of the information as well as cooperation obtained during the trip.

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## xiao qi

*Chinese leader visits Vietnam and discuss about South China Sea issues. 

Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Việt Nam - Trung Quốc nói về Biển Đông tại Hà Nội*





*Tại hội đàm, Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Việt Nam, Trung Quốc cho rằng về vấn đề tồn tại giữa hai nước, hai bên nhất trí cần kiên trì giải quyết vướng mắc bằng biện pháp hòa bình, tạo sự tin cậy vững chắc; quyết tâm cùng nhau xây dựng môi trường hòa bình trên Biển Đông*

Chiều 27-5, tại Trụ sở Bộ Quốc phòng, Đại tướng Ngô Xuân Lịch, Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng, chủ trì Lễ đón Đoàn đại biểu Quân sự cấp cao Trung Quốc do Thượng tướng Ngụy Phượng Hòa, Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng Trung Quốc, làm Trưởng đoàn.





Đại tướng Ngô Xuân Lịch, Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng, đón Thượng tướng Ngụy Phượng Hòa, Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng Trung Quốc.

Đoàn đại biểu Quân sự cấp cao Trung Quốc thăm chính thức Việt Nam từ ngày 27 đến 29-5 theo lời mời của Đại tướng Ngô Xuân Lịch, Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam.

Sau Lễ đón, hai bộ trưởng đã tiến hành hội đàm. Tại hội đàm, hai bên trao đổi về tình hình thế giới, khu vực, tình hình mỗi nước và quan hệ quốc phòng song phương, trong đó tập trung đánh giá kết quả triển khai Nghị định thư về hợp tác quốc phòng song phương năm 2003, Tuyên Bố tầm nhìn chung về hợp tác quốc phòng đến năm 2025 của Bộ Quốc phòng hai nước đã ký năm 2017.





Hai Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng duyệt đội danh dự Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam

Khẳng định quan hệ hợp tác quốc phòng giữa hai nước trong thời gian qua đã có sự phát triển, xứng đáng là trụ cột quan trọng của hợp tác toàn diện giữa hai Đảng, hai nước, thể hiện được sự tin cậy chính trị cao, hai bên đánh giá cao các hoạt động hợp tác đã được triển khai tương đối toàn diện, từng bước được cơ chế hóa với nội dung thiết thực, phù hợp với nhu cầu, khả năng đáp ứng của mỗi bên. Nổi bật là hoạt động tiếp xúc cấp cao và các chuyến thăm của lãnh đạo quân đội hai nước được thúc đẩy duy trì thường xuyên. Một số cơ chế hợp tác được thiết lập, mở rộng về nội dung và hình thức như: Đối thoại Chiến lược quốc phòng, giao lưu sĩ quan trẻ, tuần tra liên hợp trên Vịnh Bắc Bộ, giao lưu hữu nghị Quốc phòng biên giới, hợp tác công tác đảng, công tác chính trị, đào tạo, hợp tác giữa các quân khu giáp biên…

Năm 2019 được bai bên thống nhất xác định là năm bản lề mang tính đột phá trong quan hệ hai quân đội, hướng tới chào mừng 70 năm thiết lập quan hệ ngoại giao hai nước vào năm 2020. Trong đó, hai bên thống nhất thời gian tới tiếp tục thúc đẩy hợp tác quốc phòng trên các lĩnh vực công tác đảng, công tác chính trị; hoàn thành các công trình nghiên cứu khoa học lịch sử, phim tài liệu; tăng cường hợp tác trên các lĩnh vực quân y; hợp tác giữa các quân chủng Hải quân, Phòng không - Không quân, lực lượng bảo vệ biên giới, công nghiệp quốc phòng, gìn giữ hòa bình Liên Hiệp Quốc; đặc biệt quan tâm tới Chương trình Giao lưu hữu nghị quốc phòng biên giới và quan hệ giữa các quân khu, Biên phòng, Hải quân, Không quân Việt Nam với Chiến khu Miền Nam Trung Quốc…

Về vấn đề tồn tại giữa hai nước, hai bên nhất trí cần kiên trì giải quyết vướng mắc bằng biện pháp hòa bình, tạo sự tin cậy vững chắc; quyết tâm cùng nhau xây dựng môi trường hòa bình trên Biển Đông; khẳng định môi trường hòa bình trên Biển Đông mà hai bên cùng nhau xây dựng không chỉ dành riêng cho Trung Quốc hay Việt Nam, mà còn cho các đối tác có thiện chí hợp tác với hai nước để cùng nhau phát triển.

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Sau hội đàm, hai bộ trưởng đã chứng kiến cơ quan chức năng Bộ Quốc phòng hai nước ký các văn bản hợp tác: Bản ghi nhớ Hợp tác y tế quân sự giữa hai Bộ Quốc phòng; Thỏa thận giữa hai Bộ Quốc phòng về đào tạo nhân viên quân sự năm học 2019 - 2020; Bản ghi nhớ hợp tác giáo dục quân sự giữa Học viện Quốc phòng Việt Nam và Đại học Quốc phòng Trung Quốc; Lễ bàn giao trang bị vật tư y tế, tìm kiếm cứu nạn do Bộ Quốc phòng Trung Quốc tặng Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam.





Hai Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng dự lễ bàn giao trang bị vật tư y tế, tìm kiếm cứu nạn do Bộ Quốc phòng Trung Quốc tặng Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam

Đại tướng Ngô Xuân Lịch trân trọng cảm ơn Quân ủy Trung ương và Bộ Quốc phòng Trung Quốc đã tặng Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam một số trang bị, vật tư y tế, tìm kiếm cứu nạn; coi đây là biểu tượng có ý nghĩa quan trọng, đánh dấu bước phát triển mới trong quan hệ hai quân đội. Bộ trưởng Ngô Xuân Lịch thông báo và mời Bộ trưởng Ngụy Phượng Hòa tham dự Hội nghị Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng các nước ASEAN mở rộng (ADMM+) cũng như cử tàu Hải quân tham dự Diễn tập an ninh hàng hải và Lễ duyệt binh tàu quốc tế vào năm 2020 khi Việt Nam là Chủ tịch ASEAN.
Một số hình ảnh:





Hai Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng duyệt đội danh dự Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam





Hai Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng nghe giới thiệu về các trang bị vật tư y tế, tìm kiếm cứu nạn do Bộ Quốc phòng Trung Quốc tặng Bộ Quốc phòng Việt Nam










Hai Bộ trưởng Bộ Quốc phòng chứng kiến lễ ký kết văn kiện hợp tác

https://nld.com.vn/thoi-su/bo-truon...ve-bien-dong-tai-ha-noi-20190527200727826.htm


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## Viet

Vietnam remembers the battle of dien bien phu 65 years ago.

With military and financial assistance of the United States, unter the command of Colonel Christian de Castries, 10,800 French troops, with another 16,000 in reserve, were committed to the decisive battle. The plan also saw deployment of 7 divisions of US and British army. the French elite paratroopers jumped off, taking position at The Valley. The troops would receive supplies by land and air. Catries‘s plan was to lure the Vietnamese army into an open battle and then annihilated it by overwhelming fire power.









Major Marcel Bigeard


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## Viet

Destroyer Forbin pays a port visit to Saigon. The vessel belongs to the most powerful warship of the French Navy.

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## Viet

On patrol

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## Aqsuperman

Newest pictures of VPA T-90. Excellent view of the countermeasures.

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## Viet

More from T90. 





Các xe tăng chiến đấu chủ lực T-90S của Việt Nam tại đơn vị





Cận cảnh đèn nhiễu OTShU-1-7 thuộc hệ thống phòng vệ chủ động "mềm" Shtora-1 trên xe tăng T-90

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## Viet

Interesting video
Vietnam Geopolitics

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## sahureka2

An interesting video on the artillery of Cuba, many towed systems, modified into self-propelled, since Vietnam also has these systems, could be an opportunity.





The Cuban technicians have in the chassis of the T-34, in addition to making a self-propelled artillery with a 130 mm M-46 cannon, they have also done it with a 152 mm M1937 howitzer (ML-20)











152 mm M1937 howitzer (ML-20)





and the video also identifies another version of the BTR-60 with a new turret armed with what looks like a 100mm gun, but the differences with the BTR-100 are obvious, the turret of this version is completely different and the part Rear of the BTR-60 chassis is in the original configuration.
This new version of the BTR-60 was included in the video dedicated to the artillery, I think it is used as self-propelled artillery.










BtR-100

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## Viet

Test firing newly developed armor piercing 85 mm shells

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## Viet

Still running: T54/55 tanks

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## Viet

The military run Viettel is at the forerunner of “Made in Vietnam” push, especially in the field of ICT information and communication technology.













Thủ tướng Nguyễn Xuân Phúc xem trình diễn các giải pháp viễn thông và CNTT mà Viettel tự nghiên cứu phát triển.


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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> Still running: T54/55 tanks



From the pictures to me it doesn't look like a T-54/55, but light Tank Type 62

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## Aqsuperman

Good news from our American partner

"Insitu Inc., Bingen, Washington, is awarded $47,930,791 for firm-fixed-price delivery order N0001919F2602 against a previously issued basic ordering agreement (N00019-17-G-0001) for 34 ScanEagle unmanned air vehicles for the governments of Malaysia (12); Indonesia (8); Philippines (8); and Vietnam (6). In addition, this order provides for spare payloads, spare and repair parts, support equipment, tools, training, technical services, and field service representatives. Work will be performed in Bingen, Washington (77 percent); and multiple shore and at sea locations in Malaysia (9 percent); Philippines (5 percent); Vietnam (5 percent); and Indonesia (4 percent), and is expected to be completed in March 2022"

https://dod.defense.gov/News/Contra...YTepEKuxGkxxv0XLSBnCJ4l24Qvi7aPx9XJULD7jC7kk/

Welcome to Vietnam People Army, Scan Eagle


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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> From the pictures to me it doesn't look like a T-54/55, but light Tank Type 62


Not sure. Can be. You may be right. T62 is heavier, has 115 mm cannon while T54/55 100 mm cannon.

Vietnam T62 tanks





Xe tăng chiến đấu chủ lực T-62 của Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam.






Xe tăng T-62 sắp được cấp phát số lượng lớn cho các đơn vịI






Giới thiệu tính năng của xe tăng T-62 tới các cán bộ tham gia tập huấn kỹ thuật






Xe tăng chiến đấu chủ lực T-62 của Việt Nam






Xe tăng T-62 của Việt Nam đang khai hỏa


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## sahureka2

No, I don't mean the tank soviet T-62, but the Chinese Type 62 light tank armed with 85mm cannon, Vietnam should have received more than 300

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## Aqsuperman

sahureka2 said:


> No, I don't mean the tank soviet T-62, but the Chinese Type 62 light tank armed with 85mm cannon, Vietnam should have received more than 300



Maybe, Type 62 look quite similar to the Soviet T-54/55.

It seems that the first group of VPAF pilots has complete their training on the American T-6 Texan.

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## Viet

T6 Texan II is the first step before acquiring F16.






Máy bay huấn luyện sơ cấp T-6 Texan II của Không quân Mỹ.







Tiêm kích hạng nhẹ F-16 Fighting Falcon của Không quân Mỹ


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## Viet

Air Platforms
*Vietnam to receive ScanEagle unmanned aircraft*
*Gareth Jennings, London* - Jane's Navy International 
03 June 2019






Vietnam is one of four Asia-Pacific countries included in a contract for ScanEagle UAVs. The deal represents the first order for the country, which is expanding its maritime surveillance capabilities. Source: IHS Markit/Gareth Jennings


The Socialist Republic of Vietnam is to field the Insitu ScanEagle unmanned aircraft system (UAS) as part of a wider ramp-up of its airborne maritime surveillance capabilities.

The procurement of six unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) was announced by the US Department of Defense (DoD) on 31 May in a deal that included previously disclosed procurements and follow-on orders for three other Asia-Pacific countries.

Further to the air vehicles, the contract provides for spare payloads, spare and repair parts, support equipment, tools, training, technical services, and field service representatives. Work is expected to complete in March 2022.

The ScanEagle aircraft is 1.2 m long, has a wingspan of 3 m, and is launched using a pneumatic catapult and recovered by the company's Skyhook system. It has a service ceiling of 10,000 ft and an endurance of more than 20 hours. The ScanEagle is equipped with electro-optic, infrared, and high-resolution video cameras that enable the operator to track stationary and moving targets.

The DoD announcement did not disclose which branch of Vietnam's armed forces would operate the ScanEagle, but in July 2013 the country stood up a new combined air force and navy brigade specifically to perform a range of maritime missions. The 954 Air Force-Naval Brigade was activated to undertake a number of tasks, including maritime surveillance.

With a coastline of around 3,400 km to protect, including its burgeoning offshore oil and gas industry, the Vietnamese government has devoted significant resources to shoring up its maritime patrol and surveillance capabilities.


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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> No, I don't mean the tank soviet T-62, but the Chinese Type 62 light tank armed with 85mm cannon, Vietnam should have received more than 300


Where did you get the 300 number?
Ok that is fine. China provided Vietnam lots of weapons during the good time before relationship collapsed.

A note, the PLA attacked Vietnam in 1979 in the first wave by 6 tank brigades totaling 550 tanks, including 200 type 62. most of them were destroyed in the first days of the battle.











Xe tăng hạng nhẹ Type 62 của Trung Quốc






Xe tăng Trung Quốc bị Sư đoàn 346 tiêu diệt ở Bản Sẩy, Hòa An, Cao Bằng sáng 18-2-1979.





Một chiếc Type 62 của Trung Quốc bị bắt sống trong tình trạng tương đối nguyên vẹn.


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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> Where did you get the 300 number?
> Ok that is fine. China provided Vietnam lots of weapons during the good time before relationship collapsed.
> 
> A note, the PLA attacked Vietnam in 1979 in the first wave by 6 tank brigades totaling 550 tanks, including 200 type 62. most of them were destroyed in the first days of the battle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xe tăng hạng nhẹ Type 62 của Trung Quốc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xe tăng Trung Quốc bị Sư đoàn 346 tiêu diệt ở Bản Sẩy, Hòa An, Cao Bằng sáng 18-2-1979.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Một chiếc Type 62 của Trung Quốc bị bắt sống trong tình trạng tương đối nguyên vẹn.



The first photo you posted refers to a modernized version that was not exported to Vietnam.

The number of Type-62s delivered to Vietnam I found on various websites, various quantities are declared, some report 320 type 62, instead wikipedia in Vietnamese reports 200 Type-62.
https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xe_tăng_hạng_nhẹ_kiểu_62
It would be very interesting if there is more information on the number currently available to Vietnam.


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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> The first photo you posted refers to a modernized version that was not exported to Vietnam.
> 
> The number of Type-62s delivered to Vietnam I found on various websites, various quantities are declared, some report 320 type 62, instead wikipedia in Vietnamese reports 200 Type-62.
> https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xe_tăng_hạng_nhẹ_kiểu_62
> It would be very interesting if there is more information on the number currently available to Vietnam.


I searched a bit in Vietnam defense web sites, however couldn’t find any figures. Vietnam received major weapon systems from USSR, China mostly delivered small arms. So I don’t think Vietnam has them in huge numbers. But 200 or 300 can be very realistic, Chinese 62 tanks were designed as light tanks for difficult terrains and swamp lands. If Vietnam deployed them in major combat operations the tanks would have little chance against US tanks with it’s thin armor and light cannon. Vietnam preferred T54/55 in the battles instead.

Interestingly Pol Pot Cambodia received lots of Chinese type 62 tanks. In the Cambodia campaign of 1978, Vietnam T54 tanks overran them like elephants over chickens.






Cụ thể là Type 62 được chế tạo với giáp mỏng, pháo chính nhỏ.


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## Viet

*First Vietnamese student graduates from US Aviation Leadership Program*
By Tech. Sgt. Christopher Gross, 14th Flying Training Wing Public Affairs / Published June 06, 2019









Col. Samantha Weeks, 14th Flying Training Wing commander, pins on Capt. Toai Dang’s, wings during a graduation ceremony May 30, 2019, at Columbus Air Force Base, Miss. Dang became the first Vietnamese student from Vietnam Air Defense-Air Force, to graduate the Aviation Leadership Program. ALP is a U.S. Air Force-funded program, providing students of friendly and developing countries with undergraduate pilot training scholarships. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Christopher Gross)




















*COLUMBUS AIR FORCE BASE, Miss. (AFNS) -- *
Capt. Toai Dang, of the Vietnam Air Defense-Air Force, became the first Vietnamese student to graduate from the Aviation Leadership Program on May 31 at Columbus Air Force Base.

ALP is a U.S. Air Force-funded program, providing students of partner and developing countries with undergraduate pilot training scholarships.

During the graduation ceremony, which also recognized students from Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training Class 19-10/16, Special Assistant to the Director of Training and Readiness and Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations Brig. Gen. Edward Vaughan, at the Pentagon, was the guest speaker and talked about the significance of Dang’s participation and completion of ALP.

“I want you to fly, I want you to fight and I want you to win,” Vaughn said. “It is a great honor and privilege to be able to speak to you and welcome you among us now as one of our partners.”

In addition, Lt. Gen. Steve Kwast, commander of Air Education and Training Command, commented on Dang’s graduation marking a significant step forward for the two countries’ air forces.

“Vietnam’s participation in the Aviation Leadership Program is a tremendous milestone for the U.S. Air Force and Vietnam Air Defense-Air Force collaborative relationship,” Kwast said. “This type of training and cooperation enables Vietnam’s air force to increase its abilities in air and maritime operations. This partnership helps ensure peace and stability in the region and in the world.”

“It’s a good chance for me to come here (and) study something new,” Dang said about the opportunity.

Dang’s involvement in the program also helps strengthen the security ties between the U.S. and Vietnam and exemplifies the commitment of the two countries to deepen their defense relationship and bilateral cooperation, an objective of the 2011 Memorandum of Understanding on Advancing Bilateral Defense Cooperation and the 2015 Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations. Dang’s participation in ALP demonstrates the commitment between the U.S. and Vietnam toward reaching mutual goals in the Indo-Pacific region.

“Capt. Dang’s graduation from ALP and the skills and knowledge he’s gained through the training represents our continued cooperation with partner countries and our strong support for the region,” said Brig. Gen. Michael Winkler, Pacific Air Forces Strategy, Plans and Programs director. “We look forward to greater military-to-military cooperation that continues to allow the U.S. and Vietnam to more effectively work together to ensure peace and stability in the Indo-Pacific region.”

Dang said he is looking forward to returning to Vietnam to help his fellow pilots with lessons learned after 12 months in training at Columbus AFB. Upon his return, Dang will go on to fly the EADS CASA 295, a twin turboprop tactical airlifter.

Before arriving at their pilot training base, ALP students attend the Defense Language Institute English Language Center at Joint-Base San Antonio Lackland, Texas, for special purpose English training. Dang started at DLIELC in 2016. Once he graduated from DLIELC, Dang then arrived at Columbus AFB and started ALP in May 2018. He has since flown the T-6 Texan II for more than 167 hours. Unlike Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training, where students will go on to fly the T-1A Jayhawk or T-38 Talon following their time in the T-6, ALP students put in more hours in the T-6 and receive their wings once they complete the course.

Maj. Dave Cote, 41st Flying Training Squadron instructor pilot, and Capt. Christy Martin, from the 14th Student Squadron, are both international military student officers and they provide administrative support to the 55 international student officers from 23 nations while they are in pilot training at Columbus AFB.

“ALP is heavily geared toward flying and ground training,” Cote said, “but another major aspect of the ALP is to promote cultural and informational exchanges to develop mutual cooperation and understanding between the U.S. Air Force and participating nations’ air forces.

Cote said he feels ALP is essential to “building partner capacity.”

“Building partnerships and relationships takes years, if not decades,” Cote said. “The relationships our U.S. and international student pilots build now will no doubt remain long after their days at Columbus (AFB).”

Cote said 20 years from now, student pilots and graduates from Columbus AFB will be colonels and generals in their respective air forces, and these relationships could play a major role down the road.

“The connections and relationships created today in the flight rooms and rigors of pilot training will hopefully remain throughout careers,” Cote said.

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## Viet

S300 missile battery and other stuffs
all faked to fool enemy satellites
Will they succeed?

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## Viet

Two Aussie warships in the bay
Chinese warships harassed them all the way when entering the Sc sea.






Tàu khu trục HMCS Regina






Tàu tiếp viện hậu cần MV Asterix






Biên đội tàu chiến Hải quân Hoàng gia Canada trong chuyến thăm cảng quốc tế Cam Ranh.

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## Viet

Wrong translation
Those two ships came from Canada.

Here another interesting clip







Tuy nhiên kết quả bắn thử nghiệm pháo tự hành M548 trong thời gian qua đã chứng minh điều ngược lại, thậm chí Quân khu 9 còn cải tiến trang bị thêm tổ hợp pháo này một súng máy 7.62mm trên nóc xe làm nhiệm vụ phòng không. Nguồn ảnh: QPVN.

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## IAmBamboo

Viet said:


> Wrong translation
> Those two ships came from Canada.
> 
> Here another interesting clip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tuy nhiên kết quả bắn thử nghiệm pháo tự hành M548 trong thời gian qua đã chứng minh điều ngược lại, thậm chí Quân khu 9 còn cải tiến trang bị thêm tổ hợp pháo này một súng máy 7.62mm trên nóc xe làm nhiệm vụ phòng không. Nguồn ảnh: QPVN.



Interesting! I see that a lot of these gifs of the army are from QPVN, are they ran by the government also or something?
Also does anyone know what helmets those are the two are wearing in the gif?


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## Viet

IAmBamboo said:


> Interesting! I see that a lot of these gifs of the army are from QPVN, are they ran by the government also or something?
> Also does anyone know what helmets those are the two are wearing in the gif?


those from Vietnam military television. That are regular reports on TV. The helmets seem to be originated in USSR. Those helmets are used in trainings and military exercises only.

here a cut from an article about QDND television 







Hơn 6 năm làm truyền hình, 3 năm được khoác trên mình bộ quân phục trong vai trò MC tại kênh QPVN, Phạm Quý Linh cảm thấy rất tự hào và xúc động khi thực hiện những công việc chuẩn bị cho lễ kỉ niệm ngày thành lập Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam.





Có mặt từ sớm tại bảo tàng Lịch sử quân sự Việt Nam trong những ngày cuối tháng 12, Phạm Quý Linh cùng đồng nghiệp đang chuẩn bị cho những bản tin, chương trình cho lễ kỉ niệm 71 năm Ngày thành lập Quân đội Nhân dân Việt Nam (22/12/1944 – 22/12/2015).






Tranh thủ lúc đồng nghiệp đang khảo sát địa điểm sẽ thực hiện công việc, cô chuẩn bị trước kịch bản để thuận lợi trong việc biên tập bản tin. Sinh năm 1991, từng tốt nghiệp Đại học sư phạm nghệ thuật Trung ương, nữ MC quân đội lại có niềm đam mê với việc dẫn bản tin trên truyền hình.





Trong những ngày kỉ niệm 71 năm này, cô rất thú vị và xúc động khi được tiếp chuyện một em bé người nước ngoài trong trang phục áo dài dân tộc Việt nam tới thăm bảo tàng.






QPVN là một kênh truyền hình chuyên biệt của lực lượng quân sự, quốc phòng nhằm đáp ứng yêu cầu tuyên truyền, quảng bá sâu rộng về xây dựng Quân đội nhân dân, xây dựng nền quốc phòng toàn dân và bảo vệ Tổ quốc trong thời kỳ mới. Quý Linh đã may mắn được tham gia đóng góp một phần nhỏ bé cho QPVN với sứ mệnh đem những thông tin nóng hổi nhất đến đồng bào, các chiến sĩ đang ngày đêm làm nhiệm vụ trên khắp cả nước.






Ngày 22/12 hàng năm cũng là ngày những thế hệ trẻ như cô cảm thấy tự hào và vinh dự khi được khoác lên mình màu xanh áo lính và tự nhắc nhở sẽ trau dồi bản thân hơn nữa để phát huy khả năng và tiếp tục cống hiến cho QPVN nói riêng và QĐND Việt Nam nói chung.





Trở về đài ngay sau khi cùng đồng nghiệp thực hiện bản tin, cô lại bắt tay vào công việc chuẩn bị cho việc lên bản tin trưa.

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## xiao qi

One our aircraft crashes in Khanh Hoa province
*Máy bay quân sự rơi ở Khánh Hòa*
Sáng 14/6, đang diễn tập, chiếc máy bay quân sự rơi ở huyện Cam Lâm, rồi bốc cháy, hai phi công tử vong.
Vị trí máy bay quân sự rơi trên rẫy trồng xoài của người dân, gần hồ nước Suối Dầu, xa khu dân cư. "Máy bay bị cháy một nửa. Hai phi công đã tử vong", ông Nguyễn Ngọc Khuê, Chủ tịch UBND xã Suối Tân (huyện Cam Lâm, Khánh Hòa) cho biết.

Theo ông Nguyễn Hữu Hảo, Chủ tịch UBND huyện Cam Lâm, máy bay quân sự gặp nạn khi đang diễn tập. Xung quanh khu vực máy bay rơi cháy lớn, lực lượng tổ chức dập lửa.





Xác máy bay bốc cháy sau khi rơi. Ảnh: _Châu Tuấn._

Người dân cách hiện trường hơn một km nói đã nghe một tiếng nổ lớn. "Chạy đến nơi tôi thấy khói lửa bốc cao. Một phi công nhảy dù nằm bất tỉnh cách máy bay khoảng 100 m, được người dân đưa đi cấp cứu", một người dân nói.





Một bộ phận của máy bay tại hiện trường. Ảnh: _Xuân Ngọc._

Khu vực hiện trường sau đó được phong tỏa hai đầu, cách nhau 100 m. Quân đội đang căng dây, khám nghiệm xác máy bay. Nhiều mảnh vỡ nằm nhiều vị trí khác nhau, được thu gom đưa lên xe tải chuyên dụng, đến 12h30 chở khỏi hiện trường.





Xác máy bay được chở đi khỏi hiện trường. Ảnh: _Xuân Ngọc._

Theo Bộ Quốc phòng, lúc 9h10 máy bay YAK-52 của Trung đoàn 920, Trường Sĩ quan Không quân thuộc Quân chủng Phòng không - Không quân đóng ở Nha Trang tổ chức bay huấn luyện. Sau khi hoàn thành bài bay, trên đường về, máy bay mất liên lạc với Sở Chỉ huy lúc 9h35.

Đơn vị đã khẩn trương triển khai các biện pháp tìm kiếm, phát hiện máy bay rơi tại chân đập Suối Dầu. Đại úy Lê Xuân Trường (Biên đội trưởng, Phi đội 1, Trung đoàn 920) hy sinh trong buồng lái; trung sĩ Đào Văn Long (học viên bay) tử vong trên đường đi cấp cứu.

Bộ Quốc phòng đã chỉ đạo các cơ quan chức năng của Bộ phối hợp với Quân chủng Phòng không - Không quân điều tra nguyên nhân vụ tai nạn; phối hợp với chính quyền địa phương trên địa bàn nhanh chóng khắc phục hậu quả; thăm hỏi, động viên gia đình và giải quyết chính sách đối với hai phi công tử nạn.

Khu vực Diên Khánh - Cam Lâm - Cam Ranh, Khánh Hòa là nơi một số máy bay từng gặp nạn. Tháng 8/2000, máy bay Yak-52 đã rơi ở xã Cam Hiệp Nam, Cam Lâm, hai phi công hy sinh. Tháng 3/2004, một chiếc Yak-52 bay huấn luyện cất cánh từ sân bay Nha Trang đã rơi xuống xã Suối Cát, huyện Diên Khánh, hai phi công bị thương.

Yak-52 là một máy bay huấn luyện sơ cấp của Liên Xô, được sản xuất bởi hãng Aerostar từ năm 1977 đến năm 1998. Loại máy bay được thiết kế để huấn luyện nhào lộn cho học viên của tổ chức DOSAAF của Liên Xô trước đây. Loại máy bay này được sử dụng ở các nước khác nhằm mục đích huấn luyện quân sự.





Vị trí máy bay gặp nạn. Ảnh: _Khánh Hoàng.

https://vnexpress.net/thoi-su/may-bay-quan-su-roi-o-khanh-hoa-3938390.html_


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## Viet

ALL GENRES
*Izumo arrives in Vietnam*




Courtesy of Defense Ministry Maritime Staff Office / Jiji Press

The MSDF destroyer Izumo, front, and the U.S. Navy’s USS Ronald Reagan conduct a joint drill in the South China Sea.

7:24 pm, June 15, 2019

Jiji Press HANOI (Jiji Press) — Two destroyers of the Maritime Self-Defense Force, including the Izumo helicopter flattop, arrived at Cam Ranh International Port in southern Vietnam on Friday.

The MSDF ships’ visit to the key strategic Vietnamese port relatively near the disputed Spratly and the Parcel islands in the South China Sea is aimed at highlighting defense cooperation between Japan and Vietnam and deterring China’s militarization of the sea, observers said.

The Izumo anchored in Cam Ranh Bay for the second time, after its first visit there two years ago.

The Izumo and the other destroyer, Murasame, have been engaging in activities in the Indo-Pacific region, according to the MSDF.

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## Viet

Izumo


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## Viet

Tàu khu trục mang trực thăng JS Izumo của Phòng vệ Biển Nhật Bản. Ảnh: Hà Trang.






Bộ đội tàu chiến của Lực lượng Phòng vệ Biển Nhật Bản đến cảng quốc tế Cam Ranh vào sáng 14/6. Ảnh: Hà Trang.

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## Aqsuperman

JMSDF and VPN

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## Viet

Two pilots were killed during a training with Yak-52.
Maybe time to retire all legacy USSR aircraft.





















Aqsuperman said:


> JMSDF and VPN


He the pics can’t be seen. can you post them again?

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## Aqsuperman

Though it's less than successful, BPS-500 still hang around :b

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Though it's less than successful, BPS-500 still hang around :b


Wow it’s just like a tinny white mouse that trails a grey elephant

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Wow it’s just like a tinny white mouse that trails a grey elephant



LOL u started using viva viet "  " as well

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## Viet

Why UK refused to send troops to Vietnam to support the US during the war?

- the UK general public was against the war, considering it as a war of aggression

- UK own economic difficulties


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## Viet

Vietnam is invited to G20 Summit by Japan that takes place from June 27 to July 1.




*Thủ tướng Nguyễn Xuân Phúc sẽ tham dự Hội nghị G20 và thăm Nhật Bản*
Thủ tướng Chính phủ Nước Cộng hòa xã hội chủ nghĩa Việt Nam Nguyễn Xuân Phúc và phu nhân sẽ dẫn đầu Đoàn đại biểu cấp cao Việt Nam tham dự Hội nghị Thượng đỉnh G20 và thăm Nhật Bản.
(TTXVN/Vietnam+) 20/06/2019 19:06 GMT+7 



Thủ tướng Nguyễn Xuân Phúc. (Ảnh: Thống Nhất/TTXVN)

Nhận lời mời của Thủ tướng Nhật Bản Shinzo Abe, Thủ tướng Chính phủ Nước Cộng hòa xã hội chủ nghĩa Việt Nam Nguyễn Xuân Phúc và phu nhân sẽ dẫn đầu Đoàn đại biểu cấp cao Việt Nam tham dự Hội nghị Thượng đỉnh G20 và thăm Nhật Bản.

Chương trình diễn ra từ ngày 27/6 đến ngày 1/7./.


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## Nilgiri

A good read @Viet @Viva_Viet @Aqsuperman @cochine @xiao qi and all my VN friends

https://rightlog.in/2019/06/vietnam-india-china-01/







In what can be seen as a major shot in the arm for India and her strategic interests when it comes to relations with the Southeast Asian country of Vietnam, it has been reported that a direct flight between Kolkata and Vietnam is set to start from October 3 this year. The Vietnamese Ambassador to India, Pham Sanh Chau, said, “We, today, launched direct Indigo flights between Kolkata and Hanoi, that will be starting from October 3, this year. We have also launched an online platform for Indian travellers to apply for a visa on arrival.”

Another event which signifies strengthened ties between the two countries, Vietnam has reportedly reaffirmed its support for India’s bid for permanent membership at the United Nations Security Council (UNSC). It is relevant to mention here that Vietnam has been unanimously voted as a non-permanent member at the UNSC for the 2020-21 term. The Vietnamese Ambassador stated, “Vietnam has expressed its commitment to support fully India’s bid to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Previously also Vietnam has stated its support for India to become a UNSC permanent member once the council expands.” He added, “We look forward to working closely with India. India and Vietnam share a special relationship — we are also comprehensive strategic partners. For Vietnam, India is amongst the three countries which enjoy the highest status of the relationship.”

He also expressed pleasure at PM Modi’s landslide victory during the 2019 Lok Sabha polls and said, “We are very pleased to see that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was re-elected. Our leaders were among the first to send congratulatory messages to PM Narendra Modi on the counting day itself. We congratulate Prime Minister Narendra Modi on his success which shows that he has earned the confidence of the people of India. We are confident that relations will grow substantially.”

It must be noted that these positive signs reaffirming the strengthening of ties between the two countries have come at a very good time for India. Vietnam is rife with anti-China sentiments, given China’s bellicose attitude on the South China Sea dispute where Vietnam’s maritime interests are under threat too among other southeast Asian countries. Given the deepening ties with the nation, India seeks to channelize the popular sentiment against China into building a strong mutually beneficial relationship with the Southeast Asian country. Some strategic analysts see Vietnam as a part of India’s attempts to contain China, just as China uses Pakistan as a tool to contain India. For India, the growing nation appears to be a very natural and obvious choice, when it comes to effectively countering the Chinese strategy of encircling the country with military bases in the Indian Ocean. It will be in India’s interests that Vietnam exercises control over its part of the South China Sea as it is believed to be rich in oil and natural gas deposits.

Over the recent past, especially since the Modi government came to power for the first time in 2014, India has made it a point to deepen its relations with Vietnam. This is also in line with the ‘Act East Policy’ adopted by the current dispensation in India. Over the recent past, Modi government has sought to establish closer economic, defence and business ties with Vietnam. In 2016, the year PM Modi visited the country, India extended a $500 million line of credit to the Southeast Asian nation in order to bolster defence ties. In fact, India has emerged as one among the top ten trading partners of Vietnam indicating growing economic and business relations between the two countries. It is clear that the Modi government is not going to set back when it comes to the aggressive Chinese strategy of encircling India. In fact, the Modi government has made up its mind to effectively counter the diplomatic aggression shown by China and Vietnam has clearly emerged as a prominent puzzle piece in India’s diplomatic policy.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> A good read @Viet @Viva_Viet @Aqsuperman @cochine @xiao qi and all my VN friends
> 
> https://rightlog.in/2019/06/vietnam-india-china-01/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In what can be seen as a major shot in the arm for India and her strategic interests when it comes to relations with the Southeast Asian country of Vietnam, it has been reported that a direct flight between Kolkata and Vietnam is set to start from October 3 this year. The Vietnamese Ambassador to India, Pham Sanh Chau, said, “We, today, launched direct Indigo flights between Kolkata and Hanoi, that will be starting from October 3, this year. We have also launched an online platform for Indian travellers to apply for a visa on arrival.”
> 
> Another event which signifies strengthened ties between the two countries, Vietnam has reportedly reaffirmed its support for India’s bid for permanent membership at the United Nations Security Council (UNSC). It is relevant to mention here that Vietnam has been unanimously voted as a non-permanent member at the UNSC for the 2020-21 term. The Vietnamese Ambassador stated, “Vietnam has expressed its commitment to support fully India’s bid to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Previously also Vietnam has stated its support for India to become a UNSC permanent member once the council expands.” He added, “We look forward to working closely with India. India and Vietnam share a special relationship — we are also comprehensive strategic partners. For Vietnam, India is amongst the three countries which enjoy the highest status of the relationship.”
> 
> He also expressed pleasure at PM Modi’s landslide victory during the 2019 Lok Sabha polls and said, “We are very pleased to see that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was re-elected. Our leaders were among the first to send congratulatory messages to PM Narendra Modi on the counting day itself. We congratulate Prime Minister Narendra Modi on his success which shows that he has earned the confidence of the people of India. We are confident that relations will grow substantially.”
> 
> It must be noted that these positive signs reaffirming the strengthening of ties between the two countries have come at a very good time for India. Vietnam is rife with anti-China sentiments, given China’s bellicose attitude on the South China Sea dispute where Vietnam’s maritime interests are under threat too among other southeast Asian countries. Given the deepening ties with the nation, India seeks to channelize the popular sentiment against China into building a strong mutually beneficial relationship with the Southeast Asian country. Some strategic analysts see Vietnam as a part of India’s attempts to contain China, just as China uses Pakistan as a tool to contain India. For India, the growing nation appears to be a very natural and obvious choice, when it comes to effectively countering the Chinese strategy of encircling the country with military bases in the Indian Ocean. It will be in India’s interests that Vietnam exercises control over its part of the South China Sea as it is believed to be rich in oil and natural gas deposits.
> 
> Over the recent past, especially since the Modi government came to power for the first time in 2014, India has made it a point to deepen its relations with Vietnam. This is also in line with the ‘Act East Policy’ adopted by the current dispensation in India. Over the recent past, Modi government has sought to establish closer economic, defence and business ties with Vietnam. In 2016, the year PM Modi visited the country, India extended a $500 million line of credit to the Southeast Asian nation in order to bolster defence ties. In fact, India has emerged as one among the top ten trading partners of Vietnam indicating growing economic and business relations between the two countries. It is clear that the Modi government is not going to set back when it comes to the aggressive Chinese strategy of encircling India. In fact, the Modi government has made up its mind to effectively counter the diplomatic aggression shown by China and Vietnam has clearly emerged as a prominent puzzle piece in India’s diplomatic policy.


Good move! Finally direct flights.
That will facilitate exchanges between Vietnam and India.

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## Viet

History

With the aim to annihilate the Pol Pot Cambodia army before the PLA completion of mobilization,

40 years ago, at 10pm on January 6, 1979 Vietnamese Marines began one of the largest ever beach assaults on heavily defended Cambodia positions at Tà Lơn, also known as Bokor.

After 5 days of intense fighting and hefty casualties Vietnamese Marines broke thru, making the way free to the heartland of Cambodia.

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## Viet

Especially made for Vietnamese Marines
Night vision gear for Galil Assault Rifle Ace





Trong ảnh là bộ ba kính ngắm ngày/đêm và kính quy chiếu cho súng trường Galil ACE do Viện





Trong đó đối với kính ngắm ngày KNN-GL32, do công nghệ in ảnh vạch khắc điểm đỏ trong nước chưa thực sự đáng tin cậy, nên nhóm đề tài đã nghiên cứu và áp dụng phương pháp chiếu ảnh từ ngoài để tạo điểm đỏ nhưng vẫn đảm bảo kích thước và vết ngắm bắn. Hiện tại kính ngắm KNN-GL32 có 2 chế độ phóng đại x1 và x4. Nguồn ảnh: VTV2.





Ngoài ra các mẫu kính ngắm mới giành cho súng trường Galil ACE đều được chế tạo bằng các loại vật liệu mới có độ bền cao phù hợp với môi trường nóng ẩm của Việt Nam, nhưng lại có trọng lượng nhẹ, giúp làm giảm trọng lượng của súng khi gắn thêm các loại kính ngắm trong chiến đấu. Nguồn ảnh: VTV2.





Bên cạnh đó, nhóm kỹ sư của Viện Vũ khí còn nghiên cứu phương án gá lắp các mẫu kính ngắm mới lên trên một số mẫu súng cải tiến, chứ không giới hạn sử dụng trên các mẫu súng Galil ACE. Nguồn ảnh: VTV2.





Theo đó khác với các mẫu kính ngắm đêm từng được Việt Nam chế, KNĐ-GL32 được trang bị bộ biến đổi quang điện mới có khả năng tự ngắt khi xạ thủ vẫn để kính ở chế độ hoạt động và để mở nắp che vật kính vào ban ngày. Bởi với cường độ ánh sáng mạnh có thể làm hư hại bộ biến đổi quang điện trong kính. Nguồn ảnh: VTV2.





Tuy nhiên, để đảm bảo các yêu cầu tác chiến liên tục KNĐ-GL32 cũng được thiết kế để có thể hoạt động cả ban ngày lẫn đêm theo từng chế độ mà nó được trang bị như “Đêm” hoặc “Ngày/Đêm”. Nguồn ảnh: VTV2.





Galil ACE hiện là mẫu súng trường tấn công tiên tiến nhất Quân đội ta hiện nay, tuy nhiên trong quá trình chuyển giao công nghệ chế tạo loại vũ khí này các đối tác nước ngoài lại từ chối hỗ trợ cho chúng ta công nghệ sản xuất các loại kính ngắm đi kèm Galil ACE. Mà nhiều khả năng ở đây là mẫu kính ngắm quang học ngày/đêm Mepro 21 của hãng Meprolight. Nguồn ảnh: QĐND.

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## Jäger

I have a question, do you think Vietnam will buy the BrahMos even though the Vietnam Military uses P-800 for the Bastion K-300 Coastal Launcher?

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## Viet

Jäger said:


> I have a question, do you think Vietnam will buy the BrahMos even though the Vietnam Military uses P-800 for the Bastion K-300 Coastal Launcher?


Yakhont is land based decade old missile system. It’s said Vietnam wants to acquire a new missile system that can be fired by plane, ship and land based artillery. In addition Vietnam military wants to acquire the right to produce the system. The latter is probably the reason why India refused the deal.

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## gtiger

Viet said:


> Why UK refused to send troops to Vietnam to support the US during the war?
> 
> - the UK general public was against the war, considering it as a war of aggression
> 
> - UK own economic difficulties



The UK, especially the then foreign minister Anthony Eden - later Prime Minister, might have played a role in dissuading the USA from considering seriously the option of using nuclear weapons at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. Eden pushed hard for the peace settlement at Geneva, and openly criticized the USA for not signing the accords. He was also the critic of American war policies in Vietnam a decade later. As he was in his retirement by then, his views were merely personal and did not reflect the UK government's somewhat pro-American official policies.


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## Indos

*Indonesia, Vietnam speed up EEZ delimitation*

Dian Septiari
The Jakarta Post

Bangkok / Mon, June 24, 2019 / 01:13 pm



Indonesian President Joko Widodo (L) and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc exchange greetings during the welcoming ceremony of the World Economic Forum on ASEAN at the National Convention Center in Hanoi, Vietnam on September 12, 2018. (Pool via Reuters/Ye Aung Thu)

Indonesia and Vietnam have agreed to speed up maritime delimitation, while at the same time starting fresh talks to establish “provisional common guidelines” to prevent fishing incidents.

President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo met his Vietnamese counterpart, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, on Saturday at the 34th ASEAN Summit in Bangkok, where they agreed to accelerate the ongoing negotiations on the delimitation of their exclusive economic zones (EEZ), said Foreign Minister Retno LP Marsudi.

“The negotiation has taken a long time, and the two leaders stated that efforts to resolve this negotiation should be accelerated, otherwise we would experience incidents like we have experienced so far,” Retno said on Saturday.

The EEZ delimitation with Vietnam is one of five active border negotiations Indonesia is currently engaged in. The talks have been going on for years without results. The two countries previously reached an agreement on a continental shelf boundary in 2003 — after 30 years of negotiations.

Earlier this year, the Indonesian Navy reported that a vessel belonging to Vietnam’s Fisheries Resources Surveillance (VFRS) Agency had rammed one of its corvette-class warships to obstruct the impounding of a Vietnam-flagged boat suspected of fishing illegally in Indonesian waters. Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Minister Susi Pudjiastuti has lamented that was not the first such incident.

Experts have suggested that the two countries establish temporary standard operating procedures to deal with the disputed waters both sides claim as part of their EEZs, as the ongoing delimitation negotiations have yet to produce results.

To solve this particular problem, Retno said, officials of the two countries would meet to address various issues regarding EEZs and possibly devise interim guidelines for the disputed waters.

“We will probably discuss the provisional common guidelines temporarily, which will regulate the area being negotiated while waiting for the negotiations to be completed. This is to prevent unnecessary incidents,” she said.

Meanwhile, the Philippines ratified an EEZ delimitation agreement with Indonesia earlier this month, concluding the entire negotiation process as the two foreign ministers formally exchanged the ratification documents in August.

The agreement sets out boundaries in the overlapping EEZs of the Philippines and Indonesia in Mindanao and Celebes seas.

When President Jokowi met Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte in Bangkok on Saturday, they praised the resolution of the issue.

“The agreement provides legal certainty on the EEZ boundary between the two countries,” the two leaders said.

The ratification by the Philippines followed a similar move by Indonesia in 2017, when Indonesia ratified the maritime deal over the EEZ boundaries in the Mindanao Sea and the Celebes Sea. The agreement itself was signed in 2014 after 20 years of negotiations.

The Indonesian Foreign Ministry’s legal affairs and international treaties director general, Damos Agusman, said the agreement was the first maritime boundary agreement between the two largest archipelagic states. The agreed line, he said, was drawn from the respective archipelagic straight baselines using a set of innovative provisions of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

“The next agenda point would be the negotiation of the continental shelf in the same area covering the agreed EEZ to demonstrate that the EEZ lines and the continental shelf lines are two different legal regimes, for which different negotiations are absolutely required,” Damos said on Sunday.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/seasia/2019/06/24/indonesia-vietnam-speed-up-eez-delimitation.html

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## Aqsuperman

Indos said:


> *Indonesia, Vietnam speed up EEZ delimitation*
> 
> Dian Septiari
> The Jakarta Post
> Bangkok / Mon, June 24, 2019 / 01:13 pm
> 
> 
> 
> Indonesian President Joko Widodo (L) and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc exchange greetings during the welcoming ceremony of the World Economic Forum on ASEAN at the National Convention Center in Hanoi, Vietnam on September 12, 2018. (Pool via Reuters/Ye Aung Thu)
> 
> Indonesia and Vietnam have agreed to speed up maritime delimitation, while at the same time starting fresh talks to establish “provisional common guidelines” to prevent fishing incidents.
> 
> President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo met his Vietnamese counterpart, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, on Saturday at the 34th ASEAN Summit in Bangkok, where they agreed to accelerate the ongoing negotiations on the delimitation of their exclusive economic zones (EEZ), said Foreign Minister Retno LP Marsudi.
> 
> “The negotiation has taken a long time, and the two leaders stated that efforts to resolve this negotiation should be accelerated, otherwise we would experience incidents like we have experienced so far,” Retno said on Saturday.
> 
> The EEZ delimitation with Vietnam is one of five active border negotiations Indonesia is currently engaged in. The talks have been going on for years without results. The two countries previously reached an agreement on a continental shelf boundary in 2003 — after 30 years of negotiations.
> 
> Earlier this year, the Indonesian Navy reported that a vessel belonging to Vietnam’s Fisheries Resources Surveillance (VFRS) Agency had rammed one of its corvette-class warships to obstruct the impounding of a Vietnam-flagged boat suspected of fishing illegally in Indonesian waters. Maritime Affairs and Fisheries Minister Susi Pudjiastuti has lamented that was not the first such incident.
> 
> Experts have suggested that the two countries establish temporary standard operating procedures to deal with the disputed waters both sides claim as part of their EEZs, as the ongoing delimitation negotiations have yet to produce results.
> 
> To solve this particular problem, Retno said, officials of the two countries would meet to address various issues regarding EEZs and possibly devise interim guidelines for the disputed waters.
> 
> “We will probably discuss the provisional common guidelines temporarily, which will regulate the area being negotiated while waiting for the negotiations to be completed. This is to prevent unnecessary incidents,” she said.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Philippines ratified an EEZ delimitation agreement with Indonesia earlier this month, concluding the entire negotiation process as the two foreign ministers formally exchanged the ratification documents in August.
> 
> The agreement sets out boundaries in the overlapping EEZs of the Philippines and Indonesia in Mindanao and Celebes seas.
> 
> When President Jokowi met Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte in Bangkok on Saturday, they praised the resolution of the issue.
> 
> “The agreement provides legal certainty on the EEZ boundary between the two countries,” the two leaders said.
> 
> The ratification by the Philippines followed a similar move by Indonesia in 2017, when Indonesia ratified the maritime deal over the EEZ boundaries in the Mindanao Sea and the Celebes Sea. The agreement itself was signed in 2014 after 20 years of negotiations.
> 
> The Indonesian Foreign Ministry’s legal affairs and international treaties director general, Damos Agusman, said the agreement was the first maritime boundary agreement between the two largest archipelagic states. The agreed line, he said, was drawn from the respective archipelagic straight baselines using a set of innovative provisions of the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).
> 
> “The next agenda point would be the negotiation of the continental shelf in the same area covering the agreed EEZ to demonstrate that the EEZ lines and the continental shelf lines are two different legal regimes, for which different negotiations are absolutely required,” Damos said on Sunday.
> 
> https://www.thejakartapost.com/seasia/2019/06/24/indonesia-vietnam-speed-up-eez-delimitation.html



Let us all hope for the best  

VPA T-54M3, the local upgrade for the father of the tank corp. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/

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## IAmBamboo

Found this really interesting article, perhaps sometime soon we could see a Future Soldier program in Viet Nam such as Russia's Ratnik program? Some of the equipment shown could definitely be improved further though. I am really interested in those helmets though, and that new camo looks interesting.

Full Article found here, but I will paste the text and pictures that do show the new gear: https://kienthuc.net.vn/quan-su/chi...t-nam-se-mang-gi-ra-chien-truong-1230783.html

*What will Vietnam's future warriors bring to the battlefield?*





Theo đó vào đầu tháng 5 vừa qua, Thượng tướng Bế Xuân Trường - Ủy viên ban chấp hành Trung ương Đảng, Ủy viên Quân ủy Trung ương - Thứ trưởng Bộ Quốc Phòng cùng đoàn công tác Bộ Quốc phòng trong chuyến thăm và làm việc tại Nhà máy Z176, đã được lãnh đạo Z176 giới thiệu một số mẫu *quân trang dã chiến đặc biệt* đang được nhà máy này phát triển giành cho nhiệm huấn luyện và sẵn sàng chiến đấu.




Trong bức ảnh này có thể nhận thấy một mẫu quân trang mới đang được _Nhà máy Z176_ sản xuất để cấp phát cho bộ đội trong tương lai thay thế cho bao xe đựng đạn AK truyền thống, sản phẩm có tính thẩm mỹ cao hơn rất nhiều. Quan sát sơ bộ, mẫu quân trang này vẫn sử dụng họa tiết ngụy trang kiểu K07, trên áo có may sẵn một số túi trang bị để đựng băng đạn hay lựu đạn hoặc đạn súng phóng lựu M79.

Ngoài ra còn một chi tiết rất đáng chú ý nữa đó là chiếc mũ chống đạn thế hệ mới với rất nhiều ưu điểm so với mũ cối hay mũ A2 hiện nay, đó là được trang bị các đường ray để gắn đèn pin chiến thuật, camera hay một số phụ kiện tác chiến khác, sản phẩm có nhiều nét tương đồng với những loại mũ bảo hộ tiên tiến nhất hiện nay.





Bên cạnh bộ quân trang dã chiến mới, trong bức ảnh này có thể dễ dàng nhận ra còn một bộ nữa với màu ngụy trang của binh chủng đặc công, bên cạnh là áo cỏ dành cho lực lượng bắn tỉa.




Theo đó ở thời điểm hiện tại một số mẫu quân trang, khí tài trang bị cho các đơn vị tác chiến đặc biệt như bộ đội đặc công, lính bắn tỉa, hải quân đánh bộ như ba lô đa năng, áo lưới ngụy trang, áo phao đa năng cho hải quân và nhiều sản phẩm phục vụ quốc phòng khác.




Trong ảnh ta có thể thấy một phần thiết kế của áo lưới ngụy trang do Nhà máy Z176 sản xuất, bản thân người lính khi mặc đầy đủ trang bị kể cả áo chống đạn vẫn có thể sử dụng loại cho các nhiệm vụ đặc biệt.




Một mẫu ba lô hành quân mới do Z176 chế tạo có thiết kế hoàn toàn khác biệt với mẫu ba lô truyền thống đang được sử dụng trong toàn quân. Dù trong ảnh nó có kích thước khá lớn tuy nhiên người lính mang theo nó không có cảm giác không quá nặng nề.




Còn đây là mẫu áo phao đa năng cho hải quân nhiều khả năng được thiết kế giành riêng cho lực hải quân đánh bộ, khi trên áo được tích hợp sẵn nhiều túi đựng băng đạn, lựu đạn, bộ đàm. Tuy nhiên không rõ nó có khả năng chống đạn hay không.

All photos are sourced from Factory Z176

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## Viet

IAmBamboo said:


> Found this really interesting article, perhaps sometime soon we could see a Future Soldier program in Viet Nam such as Russia's Ratnik program? Some of the equipment shown could definitely be improved further though. I am really interested in those helmets though, and that new camo looks interesting.
> 
> Full Article found here, but I will paste the text and pictures that do show the new gear: https://kienthuc.net.vn/quan-su/chi...t-nam-se-mang-gi-ra-chien-truong-1230783.html
> 
> *What will Vietnam's future warriors bring to the battlefield?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theo đó vào đầu tháng 5 vừa qua, Thượng tướng Bế Xuân Trường - Ủy viên ban chấp hành Trung ương Đảng, Ủy viên Quân ủy Trung ương - Thứ trưởng Bộ Quốc Phòng cùng đoàn công tác Bộ Quốc phòng trong chuyến thăm và làm việc tại Nhà máy Z176, đã được lãnh đạo Z176 giới thiệu một số mẫu *quân trang dã chiến đặc biệt* đang được nhà máy này phát triển giành cho nhiệm huấn luyện và sẵn sàng chiến đấu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trong bức ảnh này có thể nhận thấy một mẫu quân trang mới đang được _Nhà máy Z176_ sản xuất để cấp phát cho bộ đội trong tương lai thay thế cho bao xe đựng đạn AK truyền thống, sản phẩm có tính thẩm mỹ cao hơn rất nhiều. Quan sát sơ bộ, mẫu quân trang này vẫn sử dụng họa tiết ngụy trang kiểu K07, trên áo có may sẵn một số túi trang bị để đựng băng đạn hay lựu đạn hoặc đạn súng phóng lựu M79.
> 
> Ngoài ra còn một chi tiết rất đáng chú ý nữa đó là chiếc mũ chống đạn thế hệ mới với rất nhiều ưu điểm so với mũ cối hay mũ A2 hiện nay, đó là được trang bị các đường ray để gắn đèn pin chiến thuật, camera hay một số phụ kiện tác chiến khác, sản phẩm có nhiều nét tương đồng với những loại mũ bảo hộ tiên tiến nhất hiện nay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bên cạnh bộ quân trang dã chiến mới, trong bức ảnh này có thể dễ dàng nhận ra còn một bộ nữa với màu ngụy trang của binh chủng đặc công, bên cạnh là áo cỏ dành cho lực lượng bắn tỉa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Theo đó ở thời điểm hiện tại một số mẫu quân trang, khí tài trang bị cho các đơn vị tác chiến đặc biệt như bộ đội đặc công, lính bắn tỉa, hải quân đánh bộ như ba lô đa năng, áo lưới ngụy trang, áo phao đa năng cho hải quân và nhiều sản phẩm phục vụ quốc phòng khác.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trong ảnh ta có thể thấy một phần thiết kế của áo lưới ngụy trang do Nhà máy Z176 sản xuất, bản thân người lính khi mặc đầy đủ trang bị kể cả áo chống đạn vẫn có thể sử dụng loại cho các nhiệm vụ đặc biệt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Một mẫu ba lô hành quân mới do Z176 chế tạo có thiết kế hoàn toàn khác biệt với mẫu ba lô truyền thống đang được sử dụng trong toàn quân. Dù trong ảnh nó có kích thước khá lớn tuy nhiên người lính mang theo nó không có cảm giác không quá nặng nề.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Còn đây là mẫu áo phao đa năng cho hải quân nhiều khả năng được thiết kế giành riêng cho lực hải quân đánh bộ, khi trên áo được tích hợp sẵn nhiều túi đựng băng đạn, lựu đạn, bộ đàm. Tuy nhiên không rõ nó có khả năng chống đạn hay không.
> 
> All photos are sourced from Factory Z176


It says the new helmet has a better bullet-proof profile than the current A2 helmets. It can in addition mount camera and other features.


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## IAmBamboo

Viet said:


> It says the new helmet has a better bullet-proof profile than the current A2 helmets. It can in addition mount camera and other features.



That's great, it's good that they replaced the older Pith helmets with the A2 but they definitely need better bulletproof helmets. I know they make PASGT helmets but as far as I know, I don't think those are standard issued
Also I know they were producing bulletproof armor but I haven't heard much on it, so it's good to see another progress update on more experimental body armor.


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## Viet

Arrived at G20 summit in Japan

The probably most exciting event of the year

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## Viet

The most produced tanks ever: T54/55 tanks. 100,000 pieces were made. Some thousand pieces still serve in the Vietnamese panzer army.


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## Viet

G20 Summit in Japan. Meeting between Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and US President Donald Trump. Vietnam will soon begin to import liquified natural gas from US fields. The move will please Trump a bit. Actually he wants more: Vietnam shall buy more US merchandises and especially US weapon systems.

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## Viet

Interesting pics of modernized T54B tank



















the “invisibles”

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## Viet

T54B


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## Viet

Infantry’s future standard rifle: Galil Ace32. The made-in-Vietnam rifle will gradually replace AK47 and AKM.

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## Viet

The return of the F5 fighter jet

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## Viet

One of the ships was a RoK donation to Vietnam Navy.









Russia resumes making 2A20 tank shells of calibre 115mm. The move will potentially benefit Vietnam T62 tank army. Ammunitions become available and are no longer a concern.














New developed z117 armor vests for the infantry

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Infantry’s future standard rifle: Galil Ace32. The made-in-Vietnam rifle will gradually replace AK47 and AKM.




Great choice!

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## xiao qi

Even though there seems to be a media blackout on the situation, VietDefense has been aware about the ongoing clashes at sea between Vietnamese and Chinese maritime forces. The situation is less tense than the 2014 incident though. Here is what we know so far. The following was translated from our friends over from Đơn vị tác chiến điện tử ( Comrade Commissar ).

The conflict zone is near Vanguard Bank, known as Bãi Tư Chính in Vietnam. This is an area of the southern continental shelf of Vietnam and is not related to the Spratly Islands, though China connects it to the Spratly Islands under Chinese sovereignty claims.

- Vietnam has continuously strengthened its maritime forces in the sea while practicing "soft but firm action", avoiding doing anything that will give the Chinese a reason to escalate things further. Vietnamese ships are using loudspeakers to broadcast Vietnam's maritime and sovereignty claims, demanding that the Chinese side not act provocatively and aggressively.

- The Chinese patrol vessels are still acting aggressive, continuously ramming the bow of Vietnamese ships. Due to reinforced bows, Vietnamese ships have not taken any real damage.

- The situation is tense, though not as tense as the last large scale incident in 2014. It seems while more maritime and military units are now in a state of readiness for potential conflict, they will not be deployed as the situation is "under control". While the conflict is not as bad compared to the 2014 drilling rig incident, all units must be on standby.

Below is an image detailing one of the incidents at sea. It clearly shows two ships from Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance nearby four Chinese Coast Guard vessels. The KN-472 is one of the newer generation of patrol vessels with a displacement of 770 tons and is equipped with a remote control weapons platform.

In comparison, China has deployed the Haijing 3901 cutter. With a 12,000 ton water displacement, it is considered the largest coast guard cutter in the world.







Source from Vietnamdefense

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## Viet

*Vietnamese People's Army officer participates in international exercise*
By Lance Cpl. Kindo GoJune 26, 2019





Vietnamese Armed Forces Capt. Huong Vu is a native of Hanoi, Vietnam, who wanted to take part in peacekeeping around the world. She read about the United Nations and the missions they conducted, thinking about how amazing the missions were. Vu is now a staff officer with the Vietnam Department of Peacekeeping Operations and is participating in Khaan Quest 2019 from June 14-28.

Q&A.

Q: How do you feel being in the military?
A: "I feel really proud serving in the military. There is a lot of opportunities you miss just being a civilian. If I stayed a civilian, I would never get the chance to participate in peacekeeping exercises like Khaan Quest. You also get to travel around to different countries and work with the people there, which is something I really enjoy."

Q: Why do you think Khaan Quest and peacekeeping are important?
A: "I think Khaan Quest is very important because of my lack of experience. What I learn here will definitely be a major help in any mission I deploy to in the future. This is a big confidence booster for me, especially in my leadership skills. I also think peacekeeping is important because we get to work with other countries. We learn about each other and how to work efficiently with one another. To me, this is very essential experience I gain, especially from the more experienced participants of Khaan Quest."

Q: Why do you think women are important in peacekeeping?
A: "In the past, there has been the concept that women are weak and all the protecting should be left to men. I think that's wrong! Women are powerful and can do a lot of things. Women who participate in peacekeeping can protect people just as well as men do. We should go for more gender equality and believe more in the abilities of men and women."

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## Viet

Two new built tug boats for the Coast Guard

STU 1606








_



_

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## Viet

Heckler & Koch MP5 9x19mm A3 variant 
German rifles, produced in Turkey


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## xiao qi

Chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan meets with President of China Xi Jinping in Beijing









https://vnanet.vn/vi/anh/anh-thoi-s...nuoc-chnd-trung-hoa-tap-can-binh-3968442.html

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## Carlosa

This Twitter thread cover the stand off between Vietnam & China in the Spratlys:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1148816617037369344


xiao qi said:


> Even though there seems to be a media blackout on the situation, VietDefense has been aware about the ongoing clashes at sea between Vietnamese and Chinese maritime forces. The situation is less tense than the 2014 incident though. Here is what we know so far. The following was translated from our friends over from Đơn vị tác chiến điện tử ( Comrade Commissar ).
> 
> The conflict zone is near Vanguard Bank, known as Bãi Tư Chính in Vietnam. This is an area of the southern continental shelf of Vietnam and is not related to the Spratly Islands, though China connects it to the Spratly Islands under Chinese sovereignty claims.
> 
> - Vietnam has continuously strengthened its maritime forces in the sea while practicing "soft but firm action", avoiding doing anything that will give the Chinese a reason to escalate things further. Vietnamese ships are using loudspeakers to broadcast Vietnam's maritime and sovereignty claims, demanding that the Chinese side not act provocatively and aggressively.
> 
> - The Chinese patrol vessels are still acting aggressive, continuously ramming the bow of Vietnamese ships. Due to reinforced bows, Vietnamese ships have not taken any real damage.
> 
> - The situation is tense, though not as tense as the last large scale incident in 2014. It seems while more maritime and military units are now in a state of readiness for potential conflict, they will not be deployed as the situation is "under control". While the conflict is not as bad compared to the 2014 drilling rig incident, all units must be on standby.
> 
> Below is an image detailing one of the incidents at sea. It clearly shows two ships from Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance nearby four Chinese Coast Guard vessels. The KN-472 is one of the newer generation of patrol vessels with a displacement of 770 tons and is equipped with a remote control weapons platform.
> 
> In comparison, China has deployed the Haijing 3901 cutter. With a 12,000 ton water displacement, it is considered the largest coast guard cutter in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source from Vietnamdefense

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## IAmBamboo

Viet said:


> Interesting pics of modernized T54B tank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the “invisibles”


Awesome, does anyone know the name of the helmets the two are using in the first picture? I think Viettel showed them but I can't find any names for it


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> This Twitter thread cover the stand off between Vietnam & China in the Spratlys:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1148816617037369344


Hey Carlosa friend, good to see you here again

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## Carlosa

Likewise bro, just here once in a while.



Viet said:


> Hey Carlosa friend, good to see you here again

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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Likewise bro, just here once in a while.


Perfect bro 

The tension happening now at Paracels has the potential toward a full escalation. It is speculated by BBC, depending on the outcome of her talk in Beijing, the parliament speaker Nguyễn Thị Kim Ngân may head to Washington afterwards.

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## Carlosa

Its not in the Paracels, its in Vanguard Bank, west of Spratly Island.



Viet said:


> Perfect bro
> 
> The tension happening now at Paracels has the potential toward a full escalation. It is speculated by BBC, depending on the outcome of her talk in Beijing, the parliament speaker Nguyễn Thị Kim Ngân may head to Washington afterwards.


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## Viet

Carlosa said:


> Its not in the Paracels, its in Vanguard Bank, west of Spratly Island.


Ah it’s part of Spratlys.

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## Raduga

envy 





hope we could do naval drill together , gorshkov sailing beside the iver would look neat

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## Viet

Made-in-Vietnam night vision gear NVS1BT
Suitable for Galil Ace and other rifles

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## Viet

Russia delivers two Brem-1M tank rescue vehicles as part T90 delivery to Vietnam.

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## Viet

Recruit training on 155mm artillery

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## Viet

IAmBamboo said:


> Awesome, does anyone know the name of the helmets the two are using in the first picture? I think Viettel showed them but I can't find any names for it


Look at the helmet! The previous version is called A2. Don’t have a name either. Maybe called A3 helmet. Made by Z176 factory.

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## Viet

T54M3 with improved armor













T55 tank with D-10T2S main cannon two-axis stabilization system. Firing rate: 6-7 rounds per minute 


















Surprise: reconnaissance troops with M18 rifles

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## Aqsuperman

Soldiers of the VPA during training for ArmyGame-2019 in Russia

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> T54M3 with improved armor



There is Tungsten mine in Vietnam that India imports from (to diversify its import needs, given India has very little tungsten reserves), esp for use in developing and producing armour.

I wonder if Vietnam and India are cooperating in this area more than just a pure monetary investment. Because the company that invested in Vietnam (NMDC) is also got lot of agreements with the defence lab (DMRL) in India that does such armour development.

Certainly there is much win-win scope here anyway for requirements of both countries.

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## IAmBamboo

Viet said:


> Surprise: reconnaissance troops with M18 rifles



Wish I could find more information on what gear soldiers use, like names of vests and stuff. Also I didn't know reconnaissance troops used M18 rifles, interesting!


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## Viet

IAmBamboo said:


> Wish I could find more information on what gear soldiers use, like names of vests and stuff. Also I didn't know reconnaissance troops used M18 rifles, interesting!


Not easy to find much info on Vietnam military. Many are in secrecy to keep enemies guessing.

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## Viet

Vietnam Navy is among 26 nations that will participate the upcoming Russia Fleet review in Vladivostok.

Ok we need more ships, and bigger capital ships.


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## Viet

Image from last year Indo defense 2018

Hospital ship on offer

2,000 ton

300 personal capacity 

One year has passed. Anyone knows if any ship was sold?








Fast patrol vessel 

MS-50S

Superlight with material made up of Polypropylen Polystone copolymer (PPC)

Speed 35 knt

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## Viet

The Airforce looks for revenue outside of budget. Vietstar Air, the commercial arm of Vietnam Airforce, has been granted aviation business license to operate civil aircraft. It will become the first airliner in the country to operate business jets as Embraer Legacy 600.

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## Viet

The “Marines” on exercise

Wearing such carmo in tropical and hot weather it is certainly not comfortable I guess.


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## Viet

Still one of the best inventions in recent years 

57mm autoloading cannon


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> The “Marines” on exercise
> 
> Wearing such carmo in tropical and hot weather it is certainly not comfortable I guess.


This is the same pictures of marines you posted few years ago back. I remember every pictures except for the last one. Jesus christ the two look like shit & give the kids a hamburger[emoji488]. I've been to a fight even I could snap the kid into two.

BTW I'm going to steal the last one & saved it under "argument" [emoji1]


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This is the same pictures of marines you posted few years ago back. I remember every pictures except for the last one. Jesus christ the two look like shit & give the kids a hamburger[emoji488]. I've been to a fight even I could snap the kid into two.
> 
> BTW I'm going to steal the last one & saved it under "argument" [emoji1]


Ok you show what pictures were posted and when in this thread, otherwise I report you to the mods here.

Ok I report you either way because you insult our army by your bawdy language. shits and kids.

@Dubious

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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This is the same pictures of marines you posted few years ago back. I remember every pictures except for the last one. Jesus christ the two look like shit & give the kids a hamburger[emoji488]. I've been to a fight even I could snap the kid into two.
> 
> BTW I'm going to steal the last one & saved it under "argument" [emoji1]



Well well well guess who show up. It's the world-renowned expert from Indonesia that just come back with more bull crap. Perhaps the example of nufix fail to show you that in Vietnam Defence Forum, Indon trolls tend to get banned?

By the way, I HIGHLY doubt you saw those images. Why? Because the pictures were uploaded to the Internet on 22/7/2019, 2 days ago. So yeah, you are both a LIAR and a TROLL (that is about to be banned).

On a side note:
Have your country release the result of the investigation regarding the death of Indonesian election officials? To lose more than 300 people in a freaking election in peacetime due to sheer exhaustion, one could only imagine the treatment of Indonesian bureaucrats toward servants of the state, soldiers and officials alike.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Aqsuperman said:


> Well well well guess who show up. It's the world-renowned expert from Indonesia that just come back with more bull crap. Perhaps the example of nufix fail to show you that in Vietnam Defence Forum, Indon trolls tend to get banned?
> 
> By the way, I HIGHLY doubt you saw those images. Why? Because the pictures were uploaded to the Internet on 22/7/2019, 2 days ago. So yeah, you are both a LIAR and a TROLL (that is about to be banned).
> 
> On a side note:
> Have your country release the result of the investigation regarding the death of Indonesian election officials? To lose more than 300 people in a freaking election in peacetime due to sheer exhaustion, one could only imagine the treatment of Indonesian bureaucrats toward servants of the state, soldiers and officials alike.



I'm not gonna look for the pictures (2lazy) point is I remembered the pictures the background, people, equipment even aiming pose from the ditch & I just pointing it out.

Pointing out facts is called trolling? [emoji19] 

There's a reason I never been banned in PDF while you guys have been banned in more than 1 occasion on multiple threads. 

Ask viet he's been banned for like what 2 times already? 






thx for the pics I'll be using this in a lot of discussion from now on. [emoji48] [emoji48] [emoji48]


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## Nike

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'm not gonna look for the pictures (2lazy) point is I remembered the pictures the background, people, equipment even aiming pose from the ditch & I just pointing it out.
> 
> Pointing out facts is called trolling? [emoji19]
> 
> There's a reason I never been banned in PDF while you guys have been banned in more than 1 occasion on multiple threads.
> 
> Ask viet he's been banned for like what 2 times already?
> 
> 
> View attachment 570679
> 
> thx for the pics I'll be using this in a lot of discussion from now on. [emoji48] [emoji48] [emoji48]



You got a micro tavor, you put aim point eotech on it, but you handle them with spray and pray position just like good ol AK's. Just what on earth happened there


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## Dubious

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This is the same pictures of marines you posted few years ago back. I remember every pictures except for the last one. Jesus christ the two look like shit & give the kids a hamburger[emoji488]. I've been to a fight even I could snap the kid into two.
> 
> BTW I'm going to steal the last one & saved it under "argument" [emoji1]


Dont insult soldiers..

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dubious said:


> Dont insult soldiers..


This ain't it chief, but I will leave this alone out of respect for others in this forum.


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## Dubious

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This ain't it chief, but I will leave this alone out of respect for others in this forum.


I am sorry but I didnt understand what the problem was 

@Arsalan help me mate!


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## Reashot Xigwin

Dubious said:


> I am sorry but I didnt understand what the problem was
> 
> @Arsalan help me mate!


There was no problems the guy viet is a tattletale. Like i said I'll leave it at that.

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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'm not gonna look for the pictures (2lazy) point is I remembered the pictures the background, people, equipment even aiming pose from the ditch & I just pointing it out.
> 
> Pointing out facts is called trolling? [emoji19]
> 
> There's a reason I never been banned in PDF while you guys have been banned in more than 1 occasion on multiple threads.
> 
> Ask viet he's been banned for like what 2 times already?
> 
> 
> View attachment 570679
> 
> thx for the pics I'll be using this in a lot of discussion from now on. [emoji48] [emoji48] [emoji48]



Pointing the facts WITHOUT proofs to back them up is, yes, trolling. Once again, you pull the same shiet you did a few months agao. "Hey I remember seeing some shiet about the Vietnamese before? Proof. My memory is good enough".

Typical move for a troll  

"You guys have been banned in more than 1 occasion" ? Nice to see you compare yourself against all Vietnamese members. Incidentally, I NEVER got banned myself but I'm pretty sure over the years, a fair number of Indon in PDF got banned in MULTIPLE threads as well. 



Marine Rouge said:


> You got a micro tavor, you put aim point eotech on it, but you handle them with spray and pray position just like good ol AK's. Just what on earth happened there



It's called hip-firing practice, used in clearing bunkers and trenches. If you call that position is spray-and-pray, get your eyes checked. 



Reashot Xigwin said:


> There was no problems the guy viet is a tattletale. Like i said I'll leave it at that.



You ARE the problem. Everything was fine until you come around


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> This ain't it chief, but I will leave this alone out of respect for others in this forum.


You are a bad troller!

Some posters troll but they do troll smart so that nobody notices. In contrast you troll too bad too stupid.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'm not gonna look for the pictures (2lazy) point is I remembered the pictures the background, people, equipment even aiming pose from the ditch & I just pointing it out.
> 
> Pointing out facts is called trolling? [emoji19]
> 
> There's a reason I never been banned in PDF while you guys have been banned in more than 1 occasion on multiple threads.
> 
> Ask viet he's been banned for like what 2 times already?
> 
> 
> View attachment 570679
> 
> thx for the pics I'll be using this in a lot of discussion from now on. [emoji48] [emoji48] [emoji48]


You admit are too lazy to provide proof to back up your statement?

No you troll, I was never banned.


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## Nilgiri

Dubious said:


> Dont insult soldiers..



I suggest to just threadban that guy. Problem solved. He always flames and derails so much in Vietnam threads, even pinned ones like this...long history of him doing so (even he refers to it here in his "defense") 

@Arsalan

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## Viet

*U.S. Sides With Vietnam in Maritime Dispute With China*

*State Department warns Chinese to end 'bullying' toward oil and gas search* 





Getty Images

Bill Gertz - JULY 24, 2019 5:00 AM

The State Department has warned China to halt "bullying" in the South China Sea as part of a dispute with Vietnam over oil and gas exploration in the disputed waterway.

In a blunt statement issued Saturday, department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus said China was interfering with Vietnam's "long-standing" exploration and production of undersea energy resources.

"China's repeated provocative actions aimed at the offshore oil and gas development of other claimant states threaten regional energy security and undermine the free and open Indo-Pacific energy market," Ortagus said.

"China should cease its bullying behavior and refrain from engaging in this type of provocative and destabilizing activity," she stated.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said earlier this year that China has been blocking development in the South China Sea through coercive measures and as a result is preventing regional states from developing an estimated $2.5 trillion in energy reserves.

"China's reclamation and militarization of disputed outposts in the [South China Sea], along with other efforts to assert its unlawful SCS maritime claims, including the use of maritime militia to intimidate, coerce, and threaten other nations, undermine the peace and security of the region," Ortagus said.

Additionally, China has been pressuring members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to accept an agreement that would restrict regional states' abilities to partner with third party companies and countries.

The coercion is an indication Beijing is seeking "to assert control over oil and gas resources in the South China Sea," the spokeswoman said.

"The United States firmly opposes coercion and intimidation by any claimant to assert its territorial or maritime claims," she said.

The sea has become a flashpoint in U.S.-China relations, along with trade disputes over Chinese technology theft and unfair trade practices.

China tried to claim 90 percent of the sea as historical maritime territory in an unprecedented bid to take control of the international waterway.

Three years ago the U.N. Permanent Court of Arbitration ruled the Chinese claim to own the South China Sea, based on a vaguely defined Nine-Dash Line around the waterway, was illegal. China has rejected the court ruling.

Adm. Philip Davidson, commander of the Indo-Pacific Command, said last week that China conducted a series of provocative missile tests in the South China Sea as part of messages to the United States by China's defense minister.

The Chinese fired six anti-ship ballistic missiles in the South China Sea in the first sea launch of the new DF-21D missile. The unique missile is designed to sink U.S. aircraft carriers at sea with a maneuvering warhead.

The Pentagon also said the missile tests were a violation of a 2015 pledge made by Chinese president Xi Jinping not to militarize disputed islands in the South China Sea.

The U.S. statement came amid growing tensions between Vietnam and China over access to undersea resources.

Vietnam's government on July 20 called on China to remove a survey vessel and coast guard ships near Vanguard Bank, a reef in the western part of the Spratly Islands that is claimed by China, Vietnam, Philippines, and other states.

In early July, China's survey ship and accompanying coast guard ships began conducting undersea seismic tests.

Vietnam responded by sending its coast guard vessels to the region.

Vietnamese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said July 19 that the Chinese survey ship _Haiyang Dizhi 8_ and escort vessels had carried out activities in violation of Vietnam's exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

"Vietnam has made contact with China on multiple occasions via different channels, delivered diplomatic notes to oppose China's violations, and staunchly demanded China to stop all unlawful activities and withdraw its ships from Vietnamese waters," the ministry statement said.

The dispute over undersea exploration is the most serious since May 2014, when China dispatched a mobile oil platform to the Paracel Islands. During that standoff, Vietnam sent vessels that sought to prevent the Chinese platform from attaching to the seabed and were challenged by Chinese escort ships.

In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang accused the United States of meddling in the South China Sea energy dispute.

"For a long time, external forces including the U.S. have been making wanton remarks on this issue, stirring up troubles and sowing discord with ill intentions," Geng said Monday.

Recent comments by Pompeo and White House national security adviser John Bolton on the South China Sea were "slanders" against China.

"We urge the U.S. to stop such irresponsible behaviors, respect the facts and the efforts of China and ASEAN countries to settle disputes through dialogue, and make positive contributions to peace and stability in the South China Sea rather than doing the opposite," he said.

Further north, Chinese and Russian bombers and aircraft were confronted by jet interceptors from South Korea and Japan, after the Chinese and Russian aircraft intruded in Seoul's air defense zone over islands in the Sea of Japan.

The bombers were described as Chinese H-6s and Russian Tu-95s.

South Korea's military also said more than 300 warning shots were fired at a Russian A-50 command and control military jet that intruded into South Korean airspace.

The four-nation standoff was the first of its kind in the region.

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## Aqsuperman

Quite a chilly day in Vladivostok

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## Viet

The border guards

What rifle is that?






a visit from last May: Thượng tướng Ngụy Phượng Hòa, or in english, Chinese Defense Minister General Wei Fenghe. It turns out, he is one of outspoken warmongers from the PLA.

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## IAmBamboo

Viet said:


> The border guards
> 
> What rifle is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a visit from last May: Thượng tướng Ngụy Phượng Hòa, or in english, Chinese Defense Minister General Wei Fenghe. It turns out, he is one of outspoken warmongers from the PLA.



Can't seem to find any info on what that weapon could be, the closest thing it looks like to me right away is a PP-91 Kedr, but those look smaller compared to what the guards are holding though.

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## Aqsuperman

Viet said:


> The border guards
> 
> What rifle is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a visit from last May: Thượng tướng Ngụy Phượng Hòa, or in english, Chinese Defense Minister General Wei Fenghe. It turns out, he is one of outspoken warmongers from the PLA.



AK magazine so it must fire 7.62x39mm...But that is all I got lol.

Edit: I think the rifle is a Gali ACE 31 with a folding stock.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Quite a chilly day in Vladivostok


Beautiful picture 

Like angels 

@vostok

Sending submarines instead of frigates to Russia fleet review would be cool.

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## Viet

Young summer camp


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## Viet

More pics from Missile Frigate 016, the first ever visit of Vietnamese warship to Russia

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## warzone

Reashot Xigwin said:


> I'm not gonna look for the pictures (2lazy) point is I remembered the pictures the background, people, equipment even aiming pose from the ditch & I just pointing it out.
> 
> Pointing out facts is called trolling? [emoji19]
> 
> There's a reason I never been banned in PDF while you guys have been banned in more than 1 occasion on multiple threads.
> 
> Ask viet he's been banned for like what 2 times already?
> 
> 
> View attachment 570679
> 
> thx for the pics I'll be using this in a lot of discussion from now on. [emoji48] [emoji48] [emoji48]







LOL clown @Reashot Xigwin clown @Marine Rouge you 2 dumb dumb experts saw fire coming from the muzzles ?…They are training combat stances, dumb dumb…That combat stance (waist aiming) can be use while patrolling, searching, marching or aiming at close range or whatever while resting your arms and have much better view… So what is wrong with that dumb dumb???











You guys should focus on how to crush those tiny ragtag under-equipped rebels factions and defending your 17 500 islands and also tell your army to stop running away from the small Australian army
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...n-papua-rebels-indonesia-190711070101513.html





2 dumb dumb try to teach others while their own indo army can't finish those tiny poorly equipped rebels factions, those rebels don't have more than 2 ammo magazines each and a huge nightmare of various ammo types between them....
LOL !!!


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## Viet

warzone said:


> View attachment 571189
> 
> LOL clown @Reashot Xigwin clown @Marine Rouge you 2 dumb dumb experts saw fire coming from the muzzles ?…They are training combat stances, dumb dumb…That combat stance (waist aiming) can be use while patrolling, searching, marching or aiming at close range or whatever while resting your arms and have much better view… So what is wrong with that dumb dumb???
> View attachment 571186
> View attachment 571183
> View attachment 571185
> 
> 
> You guys should focus on how to crush those tiny ragtag under-equipped rebels factions and defending your 17 500 islands and also tell your army to stop running away from the small Australian army
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...n-papua-rebels-indonesia-190711070101513.html
> 
> View attachment 571191
> 
> 2 dumb dumb try to teach others while their own indo army can't finish those tiny poorly equipped rebels factions, those rebels don't have more than 2 ammo magazines each and a huge nightmare of various ammo types between them....
> LOL !!!


Wow! This little kid Papua bunch holds off the entire Indonesia army? What’s up with the self declared ASEAN leader?

@Marine Rouge

Maybe you should try to finish them off by tanks, submarines, jets, etc everything you have before laughing on Vietnam military.


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## Nike

warzone said:


> View attachment 571189
> 
> LOL clown @Reashot Xigwin clown @Marine Rouge you 2 dumb dumb experts saw fire coming from the muzzles ?…They are training combat stances, dumb dumb…That combat stance (waist aiming) can be use while patrolling, searching, marching or aiming at close range or whatever while resting your arms and have much better view… So what is wrong with that dumb dumb???
> View attachment 571186
> View attachment 571183
> View attachment 571185
> 
> 
> You guys should focus on how to crush those tiny ragtag under-equipped rebels factions and defending your 17 500 islands and also tell your army to stop running away from the small Australian army
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...n-papua-rebels-indonesia-190711070101513.html
> 
> View attachment 571191
> 
> 2 dumb dumb try to teach others while their own indo army can't finish those tiny poorly equipped rebels factions, those rebels don't have more than 2 ammo magazines each and a huge nightmare of various ammo types between them....
> LOL !!!





Viet said:


> Wow! This little kid Papua bunch holds off the entire Indonesia army? What’s up with the self declared ASEAN leader?
> 
> @Marine Rouge
> 
> Maybe you should try to finish them off by tanks, submarines, jets, etc everything you have before laughing on Vietnam military.



Lol, just a bunch of armed brigands and thief located and operated in far away jungle in Papua, its nothing serious compared to heavily armed Viet Narco gangs operating in Vietnam big cities armed with military standard firearms warrants attention even from their military and needed to use heavy equipment to bust them out 
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/t...-gang-in-northern-vietnam-police-3772722.html

Its just prelude for Viet Narco civil war like what happened in Mexico, competent my *** even they built stronghold in your neighbourhood


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## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> Lol, just a bunch of armed brigands and thief located and operated in far away jungle in Papua, its nothing serious compared to heavily armed Viet Narco gangs operating in Vietnam big cities armed with military standard firearms warrants attention even from their military and needed to use heavy equipment to bust them out
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/t...-gang-in-northern-vietnam-police-3772722.html
> 
> Its just prelude for Viet Narco civil war like what happened in Mexico, competent my *** even they built stronghold in your neighbourhood


sis, it is just a police raid against drug gangsters, carried out by police forces.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> sis, it is just a police raid against drug gangsters, carried out by police forces.



Sure sure just a police raid,


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## Viet

Marine Rouge said:


> Sure sure just a police raid,


They are police forces. Look at their carmo, rifles, verhicles!

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## Aqsuperman

Marine Rouge said:


> Lol, just a bunch of armed brigands and thief located and operated in far away jungle in Papua, its nothing serious compared to heavily armed Viet Narco gangs operating in Vietnam big cities armed with military standard firearms warrants attention even from their military and needed to use heavy equipment to bust them out
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/t...-gang-in-northern-vietnam-police-3772722.html
> 
> Its just prelude for Viet Narco civil war like what happened in Mexico, competent my *** even they built stronghold in your neighbourhood



Ladies and gentlemen, this is how a Indonesian gone mad trying to tell people that Vietnam is about to fall into a civil war because of drug. Let's see...

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2018/12/07/papua-mass-killing-what-happened.html







"According to the account of surviving Istaka Karya worker Jimmi Aritonang, which he relayed to the Cendrawasih Military Command, an armed group kidnapped 25 workers from the Istaka Karya camp in Nduga regency on Saturday and forcefully marched them to the nearby Karunggame River.

On Sunday, the workers were once again forced to move, this time toward the Puncak Kabo hill. On the way there, they were ordered to squat and line up in five rows. The gunmen then shot at the workers, killing 14 on the spot, while the remaining 11 pretended to be dead

The gunmen then left the victims and continued their journey to Puncak Kabo. The 11 workers who had played dead attempted to escape, but they were spotted. The rebels caught and killed five of them, while the other six managed to escape toward Mbua"

Well, at seem that the Viet narco gang with "stronghold" (a few brick houses) with "military standard firearms" (outdated illegally imported riflers) in our "neighborhood" (a border region) still fail to pull up a masterpiece as the Papua in Indonesia. Gosh check out the coffins. Let me throw out a few emo to tell you how I feel: 

Civil war over drug in Vietnam? Man you Indons need to stop using drugs while surfing the Internet.

By the way, that was indeed a police raid. The gang had firearms which made the appearance of armored cars completely natural. Can you even read the word "POLICE" on the side?


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## warzone

Marine Rouge said:


> its nothing serious compared to heavily armed Viet Narco gangs operating in Vietnam big cities armed with military standard firearms warrants attention even from their military and needed to use heavy equipment to bust them out
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/t...-gang-in-northern-vietnam-police-3772722.html
> 
> Its just prelude for Viet Narco civil war like what happened in Mexico, competent my *** even they built stronghold in your neighbourhood



Dumb Dumb It’s extremely hard to get guns legally or illegally in Viet Nam, the few guns seized by police are mostly junks, handmade or obsolete . They are very few murders committed with guns in VN for a population of 100 millions, it the proof the low number of guns in Vietnam….Here are the junks confiscated on the heavily armed Viet Narco gangs...LOL











Marine Rouge said:


> Lol, just a bunch of armed brigands and thief located and operated in far away jungle in Papua,



Only armed thieves operating in jungle far away, right?...LOL!! How about this incident in March 2019 in West Papua when 50 to 70 rebels carrying firearms as well as SPEARS and ARROWS attacked a group of 25 soldiers in a battle lasting several hours, killing 3 dead soldiers and 10 poorly equipped rebels… LOL spears and arrows LOL

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/08/west-papua-independence-deaths-battle-indonesia

How about those armed groups in Indonesia

Rebels groups in Indonesia


Free Aceh Movement (separatist)
South Moluccas (separatist)
Free Papua Movement (separatist)
Terrorist groups in Indonesia

Jemaah Islamiyah[53] (JI) (Islamist)
Mujahidin Indonesia Timur (MIT) (Islamist)
Jamaah Ansharut Tauhid (JAT) (Islamist)
Jamaah Ansharusy Syariah (JAS) (Islamist)
Jamaah Ansharut Daulah (JAD) (Islamist)
Now you know why your nickname is clown@Marine Rouge , right !?


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## Aqsuperman

Pictures of Vietnam T-90 have trickled in:

It seem that these pictrues show practice APFSDS, 9M119M "Refleks" and snorkel equipment

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## Viet

Vietnamese soldiers train for Army Games 2019
By My Hanh, Trong Hai

News | July 25, 2019 | 03:57 am GMT+7
*The few female medical officers in the Vietnamese contingent to the Army Games 2019 have undergone rigorous training for the Russia Army Games next month.
*






Eight teams of the Vietnam People's Army joined at a military training ground in the northern Vinh Phuc Province on Tuesday to get ready to compete in eight disciplines at event organized by Russian Defense Ministry on August 3-17.

This year, the Vietnamese contingent comprises tank crew, medical staff, food service specialists, emergency rescue personnel, armored vehicles crew, literary/art and dancing contestants, snipers, and chemical reconnaissance vehicles.

Only the medical relay team has female members.







A female officer receives help to put on a bullet-proof vest.

The military medical relay team will race with teams from Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Myanmar, Russia, Uzbekistan and Zimbabwe in Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan.







A female medical officer crawls under barbed wire to approach a wounded individual in a simulated setting. In addition to professional skills training, they were also given shooting lessons, and exercises involving overcoming obstacles and crossing rivers.







A female officer carries out first aid on a wounded soldier in the battlefield after overcoming multiple obstacles.







"It was not a long journey but it was really a big challenge, because I had to lift the wounded person weighing more than 80kg using my knees," said Lieutenant Nguyen Thi Hanh (R), who trained for the military medical relay race.

According to the competition rules, contestants must provide medical aid to subjects weighing 80kg and above. Hence, the female soldiers were given training to strengthen their knees, legs and arms and taught to place a wounded soldier on their knees and drag him/her for a distance of 15 meters. Previously, tarpaulins were allowed in this contest, but that’s no longer the case.







A wounded soldier is taken from the BTR armored vehicle to the ground in a simulated situation where a vehicle is hit during combat.







A female soldier carries an 80-kilogram male soldier and runs 15 meters.







Three soldiers practice delivering a wounded soldier, lying on a flat wood surface, using a rope over a river that has no bridge. One of the competitions requires contestants to make use of a rope by tying it around trees to deliver the wounded from one side of a river to the other. The soldiers must learn how to make strong knots and exert strong pulls.







Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Bach Dang, head of the Vietnam Military Medical Relay Team, runs in a simulated setting that tests soldiers’ skills to overcome obstacles.







Dang dissembles an AK rifle as part of the training.

"Last year the teams joined the Army Games primarily to improve their skills and gain experience. This year, the teams have prepared ahead... and are determined to win prizes for the country and the Vietnamese army," said Dang.

Last year, when the country made its debut at the games, Vietnam fielded candidates for just three disciplines.

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## Viet

*EU, Vietnam to become brothers in arms*


*



*
A military officer holds a European Union flag in a file photo. Photo: Facebook


Two sides will sign a new defense agreement on August 5, opening the way for stronger strategic cooperation including in the South China Sea

By DAVID HUTT

On August 5, the European Union’s (EU) chief diplomat Federica Mogherini will sign a new defense agreement with Vietnam, the first such security deal Brussels will have with a Southeast Asian nation.

It is the latest indication that the EU is trying to forge a closer defense relationship with the region and Vietnam in particular, which is at the heart of disputes with China in the South China Sea.

After taking part in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Regional Forum and an EU-ASEAN Post-Ministerial Conference in Bangkok between August 1 and 2, Mogherini will head to Hanoi to sign “an agreement on Vietnam’s participation in our European military and civilian missions”, she told regional media earlier this week.

“I expect it to be the first of many with our friends in ASEAN, because our missions do not only serve European interests, but serve first and foremost the interest of peace and security globally,” added Mogherini, the EU’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy.

Alongside Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich, she is scheduled to sign a Framework Participation Agreement (FPA), which will make Vietnam part of the EU’s crisis management operations, Asia Times confirmed with EU sources.

A FPA also allows a partner nation to contribute to the operations and missions under the EU’s Common Security and Defense Policy, a strategy to coordinate the bloc’s defense and intelligence policies.





EU Foreign Policy Chief Federica Mogherini speaks in Kuwait City, July 14, 2019. Photo: AFP

An EU spokesperson told Asia Times the agreement “confirms the EU’s and Vietnam’s shared commitment to contribute to peace and security in their neighborhoods and the wider world, as well as to safeguarding the rules-based multilateral order.”

“[It] will allow for Vietnam’s active participation in EU-led crisis management operations. These play a key role in peacekeeping, conflict prevention and strengthening international security in the EU’s immediate neighborhood and beyond,” the spokesperson added.

It will be the fourth FPA the EU has signed with an Asia-Pacific nation, after Australia, New Zealand and South Korea.

The deal comes as the EU’s relations with Vietnam are flourishing.

On June 30, the two sides finally signed a free trade agreement (FTA), almost four years after negotiations ended. It is the EU’s second trade deal with a Southeast Asian country, after it signed one with Singapore earlier this year. The European Commission called it “the most ambitious free trade deal ever concluded with a developing country.”

Hanoi reckons that because the trade deal will cut most tariffs on Vietnamese exports into the EU once the deal comes into effect, and eventually almost all duties after a few years, it could boost the country’s exports to the EU, worth $42.5 billion last year, by up to 20%.

But security relations are also improving. In April, Jean-Christophe Belliard, deputy secretary-general of the European External Action Service, the EU’s foreign and defense ministry, visited Hanoi to meet with Deputy Defense Minister Nguyen Chi Vinh. Reports at the time indicated the two officials discussed a range of defense issues as well as the EU’s financial support for Vietnamese officers to attend EU courses and building Vietnam’s peacekeeping capabilities.

The following month, Vinh led a Vietnamese delegation to Brussels to attend an EU Chiefs of Defense meeting at the invitation of Claudio Graziano, chairman of the European Union Military Committee, the EU’s highest military body. Vietnam for the first time took part in a European Union Military Committee meeting last year.

Also in May, the first joint committee meeting under Vietnam and EU’s Comprehensive Partnership and Cooperation Framework Agreement, a deal signed in 2012 and which came into effect in 2016, was held. It was co-chaired by Vietnam’s deputy minister of foreign affairs, To Anh Dzung, and Gunnar Wiegand, director for Asia and Pacific in the European External Action Service.

Vietnamese military band performs at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi, November 12, 2017. Photo: AFP/Pool/Kham

The EU has good reason for prioritizing relations with Vietnam. It was one of five countries chosen in June to become non-permanent members of the UN Security Council for the next two years, which should give it more experience in international diplomacy.


Vietnam is also set to take on the chairmanship of the ASEAN bloc next year, as the chair rotates between member states annually. Strong relations with Hanoi could thus allow the EU to gain more leverage in Southeast Asian affairs.

More important, Vietnam is at Southeast Asia’s geo-strategic center, as it remains the only rival claimant that is vocally opposing Chinese expansionism in the South China Sea, the region’s most burning security issue.

Both US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi are also in Bangkok this week to try to entice Southeast Asian nations to their side of the divide. Many analysts believe that the US and China are now in a contest for spheres of influence in Southeast Asia.

The ASEAN Regional Forum comes just two weeks after the Wall Street Journal, quoting unnamed US officials, alleged that Cambodia had entered a deal to allow the Chinese military exclusive use of a domestic naval base, which if true would ratchet up regional concerns about Chinese expansionism.

It also comes amid yet another standoff in the South China Sea, after a Chinese exploration ship along with two coastguard vessels stationed around the oil-rich Vanguard Bank, a feature Vietnam claims as its territory. China’s threat of military action last year and in 2017 forced Vietnam to cancel planned oil exploration projects in the same area.

The EU has so far refused to openly take sides in the South China Sea disputes, though it does take the position that Beijing must respect international law based on the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

The EU Global Strategy, published in June 2016, vows to “uphold freedom of navigation, stand firm on the respect for international law, including the Law of the Sea and its arbitration procedures, and encourage the peaceful settlement of maritime disputes.”





A French naval officer in front of the Vendémiaire frigate. Photo: Twitter

In April and May, EU and Vietnamese defense officials reportedly discussed the possibility of EU member states sending more vessels on freedom of navigation missions to the South China Sea.

Indeed, the EU Maritime Security Strategy advocates for member states “to play a strategic role in providing global reach, flexibility and access” for the EU, and to “support the freedom of navigation and contribute to global governance by deterring, preventing and countering illicit activities.”

“The EU is committed to maintaining a legal order for the seas and oceans based upon the principles of international law, as reflected notably in the [UNCLOS],” an EU spokesperson said in regard to the grouping’s position on the South China Sea. “This includes the maintenance of maritime safety, security, and cooperation, freedom of navigation and overflight.”

But only two member states currently engage in freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea: France and the United Kingdom. However, the UK is expected to leave the EU on October 31, depriving the bloc of its largest military power and leaving only France, a former colonizer of Vietnam, to perpetuate the policy in the region.

France and Vietnam have improved security relations in recent years, signing a defense cooperation agreement back in 2009 and beginning a Defense Policy Dialogue in late 2016.

The first Vietnam-France deputy ministerial dialogue on security and defense strategy took place last September, at which a Vietnam-France Joint Committee on Defense Cooperation was signed, setting out bilateral defense initiatives until 2028. This followed a visit to Paris by the Vietnamese Communist Party’s General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong, the country’s leading statesman.

Apart from defense talks and agreements, France is also reportedly keen to take a defensive position in the South China Sea disputes, in which Vietnam is now the only claimant loudly protesting China’s annexation and militarization of parts of the maritime area.

French vessels engaged in freedom of navigation exercises in the South China Sea in 2017 and last year, soon after an international arbitration panel at The Hague ruled in July 2016 that China’s wide-sweeping claims to the sea are illegitimate under international law. Beijing rejected the decision.





A Vietnamese soldier stands watch overlooking the South China Sea. Photo: Facebook

In May, the French destroyer FS Forbindocked in Vietnam, the first visit of its kind. At the 2019 Shangri-La Dialogue, an annual regional defense dialogue held in Singapore in late May, French Minister of the Armed Forces Florence Parly promised that French vessels would “sail more than twice a year in the South China Sea” and continue upholding international law in a “steady, non-confrontational but obstinate way.”

Exactly what a Vietnam-EU FPA will mean in practical terms is unclear. At present, there are only Common Security and Defense Policy missions in Europe and Africa, and none in Asia. Arguably it will be more symbolic than substantive, at least at first.

The EU has held five EU-ASEAN High-Level Dialogue on Maritime Security Cooperation sessions since 2013, while it is currently co-chair of the ASEAN Regional Forum’s Inter-sessional Meeting on Maritime Security, along with Vietnam and Australia.

But the EU is angling to expand its security brief in Asia. For years, it has lobbied to gain a seat at the intimate ASEAN Defense Minister’s Meeting (ADMM) Plus Experts’ Working Group sessions, and the more grandiose annual East Asia Summits.

At this year’s Shangri-La Dialogue conference, Mogherini said that when she made her first speech at the summit four years ago, she had stated the EU “had the ambition to be not only – as we are already – the key economic partner for Asia, but also to become a global security provider or a security partner, and Asia should have been part of that work.”

Four years on, she said in May, “we have come a long way on this. Today we work more closely than ever with ASEAN, not only politically and economically, but also on security, including on the military level.”

“Once positioning itself as a ‘natural partner,’ Brussels has realized that if it wants to be taken seriously [in Southeast Asia], it cannot be through self-entitlement and empty political gestures, but rather concrete, practical actions that demonstrate its ability to bring about positive change,” wrote Eva Pejsova, a senior analyst at the European Union Institute for Security Studies, a think tank.

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## Viet

Sea Platforms
*Vietnam takes delivery of two refurbished vessels from Japan*
*Ridzwan Rahmat, Singapore and Kosuke Takahashi, Tokyo* - Jane's Navy International 
01 August 2019


The Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance agency has taken delivery of two refurbished vessels from Japan.

The vessels, which bear the pennant numbers KN-595 and KN-596, were handed over by Vietnamese company Hong Ha Shipbuilding to the agency on 30 July.

In response to questions from _Jane's_ , a Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson clarified on 2 August that the vessels are part of a donation of six vessels that was announced by Tokyo in 2014, and approved by then foreign minister Fumio Kishida in August that year.

The donation was done at the request of Vietnamese leaders to assist the country in bolstering its maritime law enforcement capabilities, said the spokesperson.





Lực lượng Kiểm ngư Việt Nam






Phát biểu tại Lễ bàn giao


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## Viet

Not yet posted I believe.

Testing new class of vessel Kn-272

Made by x51 shipyard

Weight 700 ton

Speed 18 knt 

Remote controlled naval gun “Typhoon” at starboard, range 1,000m

High speed water cannon


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## Viet

A better picture of T90 training tank

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## Aqsuperman

VPA snipers at ArmyGame 2019. I believe they are using a new camo pattern.

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## Reashot Xigwin

warzone said:


> View attachment 571189
> 
> LOL clown @Reashot Xigwin clown @Marine Rouge you 2 dumb dumb experts saw fire coming from the muzzles ?…They are training combat stances, dumb dumb…That combat stance (waist aiming) can be use while patrolling, searching, marching or aiming at close range or whatever while resting your arms and have much better view… So what is wrong with that dumb dumb???
> View attachment 571186
> View attachment 571183
> View attachment 571185
> 
> 
> You guys should focus on how to crush those tiny ragtag under-equipped rebels factions and defending your 17 500 islands and also tell your army to stop running away from the small Australian army
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019...n-papua-rebels-indonesia-190711070101513.html
> 
> View attachment 571191
> 
> 2 dumb dumb try to teach others while their own indo army can't finish those tiny poorly equipped rebels factions, those rebels don't have more than 2 ammo magazines each and a huge nightmare of various ammo types between them....
> LOL !!!



Its not about the stance dumb-dumb. It's about everything else in the picture. 

Never have I mention "stance" as the problems. 

Take a good look again why I laugh at this pictures: 





If you want to see actual incompetence in dealing with rebel groups try look at vietnam management of cambodia: 

Vietnam maintained the fifth-largest armed forces in the world, with 1.26 million regular soldiers under arms, 180,000 of whom were stationed in Cambodia in 1984.[85][86]Consequently, the Vietnamese Government had to spend one-third of its budget on the military and the campaign in Kampuchea, despite receiving US$1.2 billion in military aid annually from the Soviet Union, thus further hampering Vietnam's economic rebuilding efforts.[84]


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## Aqsuperman

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Its not about the stance dumb-dumb. It's about everything else in the picture.
> 
> Never have I mention "stance" as the problems.
> 
> Take a good look again why I laugh at this pictures:
> View attachment 572425
> 
> 
> If you want to see actual incompetence in dealing with rebel groups try look at vietnam management of cambodia:
> 
> Vietnam maintained the fifth-largest armed forces in the world, with 1.26 million regular soldiers under arms, 180,000 of whom were stationed in Cambodia in 1984.[85][86]Consequently, the Vietnamese Government had to spend one-third of its budget on the military and the campaign in Kampuchea, despite receiving US$1.2 billion in military aid annually from the Soviet Union, thus further hampering Vietnam's economic rebuilding efforts.[84]



Lol, don't you all love how this uneducated Indon talk about "vietnam management of cambodia" as if it's a mere insurgency ? What happened in Cambodia is a giant whirlwind of ethic and ideology WARS with presences of superpowers that would overwhelm any lesser country (like Indonesia). Khmer Rouge and other "rebel groups" possessed tanks, artillery, MANPADS, ... the likes of which their Indonesia counterparts could NEVER dream of. But guess what, Vietnam CRUSHED them all and nowadays, we DON'T have a active insurgency in our heartland as well as border regions.....unlike Indonesia.

For the sake of comparison, let's see what Wikipedia has to say about Papua conflict

"The *Papua conflict* is an ONGOING conflict between Indonesian administration and the indigenous population of Western New Guinea (Papua) in which Indonesia has been accused of conducting a genocidal campaign against the indigenous inhabitants. Subsequent to the withdrawal of the Dutch administration from the Netherlands New Guinea in 1962 and implementation of Indonesian administration in 1963, the Free Papua Movement (Indonesian: _Organisasi Papua Merdeka, (OPM)_, a militant Papuan-independence organisation, has conducted a low-key guerrilla war against Indonesia through the targeting of its military and police

Protests and ceremonies by Papuans raising their flag for independence or federation with Papua New Guinea, and accuse the Indonesian government of indiscriminate violence and of suppressing their freedom of expression. At least 100,000 Papuans have been killed in the violence, and thousands more have been raped, tortured and imprisoned by the Indonesian military since 1969 and the Indonesian governance style has been compared to that of a police state, suppressing freedom of political association and political expression. Indonesia continues to restrict foreign access to the region due to sensitivities regarding its suppression of Papuan nationalism"

For like what, HALF A FCKING CENTURY, the almighty Indonesia armed forces cannot put down the insurgency in Papua that is backed by, wait for it, NO ONE. So there are theories for that

1/ People in Papua happen to be supersoldiers (better than Vietnamese Assault Pioneer , better than the US Navy Seal, better than Russian Alpha Group, ....)
2/ Indonesia simply suck at fighting rebel.

I shall let people find their own answer


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## Viet

Just making a thought on the US decision to withdraw from INF.

According to US, China has about 2,000 ballistic and cruise missiles with 280 nuclear warheads. Interestingly, China has not signed any arms control regime like the INF treaty between the US and USSR. The treaty prohibits all land based ballistic and cruise missiles with range between 500km and 5,500km.

the question: when 80 percent of China missile arsenal are of short range, they can’t reach America, so what potential targets will they be used for?

Beautiful missiles from the PLA








the missiles are certainly destined for targets in Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Philippines.

The US seeks to station land based ballistic and cruise missiles in East Asia. That will be interesting to know which countries will host the missiles.


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## Aqsuperman

VPA tankers in ArmyGame 2019. So far, the odds are against us with all teams in the lot have substantial experience with T-72 while Vietnam only recently fielded T-90

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## Viet

Women power
The lady is beautiful 

Interestingly EU’s national security and military affairs are increasingly handled by women. The new defense minister of Germany is a woman. She replaced a women that goes to Brüssel to become the head of EU ruling body.






Vietnam's Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh (R) and Federica Mogherini (L), Vice-President of the European Commission and High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, arrive at a joint press conference after a meeting with at the Government Guesthouse in Hanoi, Vietnam, 05 August 2019. Mogherini is on an official visit to Vietnam from 03 to 05 August 2019.


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## Viet

Good: the giant 10,000 ton chinese bully ship has withdrawn from the scene. Some smaller ships remain though. So the risk remains high that we see clashes again like the previous encounter.

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## Viet

“Two steps from Hell”

Great music!

A remembrance of the 10 day and night air battle over Hanoi at Christmas 1972








The US air assault began on 18 December with 129 B-52s approaching Hanoi. Hundreds of fighter aircraft taken off from 6 US aircraft carriers joined the attack. Good tactic: B52 bombers flew in formation, in successive waves made up three bombers.

The aftermath of the attack marked the end of US involvement in Vietnam.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> “Two steps from Hell”
> 
> Great music!
> 
> A remembrance of the 10 day and night air battle over Hanoi at Christmas 1972
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The US air assault began on 18 December with 129 B-52s approaching Hanoi. Hundreds of fighter aircraft taken off from 6 US aircraft carriers joined the attack. Good tactic: B52 bombers flew in formation, in successive waves made up three bombers.
> 
> The aftermath of the attack marked the end of US involvement in Vietnam.


Thats the last effort of US in VN and they tried everything they could.

Btw, u can read from my link to know more abt electronic warfare in VN, so next time when Cnese like Han-patriot brag that CN"super jamming decive" can jam VN missile, then u can give him a hard slap to wake him up 

---------
 
*TACTICS AND TECHNIQUES OF ELECTRONIC WARFARE*

*Electronic Countermeasures in the Air War Against North Vietnam 1965-1973*


*by Bernard C. Nalty*







_US Air Force F-105D Thunderchief is trying to evade V-750V SAM launched from a SA-75 Dvina, North Vietnam (US Air Force image).
__________

*Linebacker II: The First Two Nights*

By the time the B-52's launched Linebacker II, in December 1972, Fan Song operators had polished their skill in combating the bombers. As early as 9 April, near Dong Ha in South Vietnam, a SAM damaged an attacking B-52, the first missile hit suffered by a Stratofortress in seven years of Southeast Asia operation. On that day the first warning came when an electronic warfare officer on board one of the bombers in the three-plane cell detected a guidance signal. After the second B-52 in the cell had dropped its bombs and begun turning away, at least three missiles bored toward it. One of these exploded just 50 feet from the plane's left wing tip, puncturing the external fuel tank on that side and tearing into the fuselage. Despite the damage, Capt. Kenneth J. Curry landed safely at Da Nang. The absence of a Fan Song signal prior to launch indicated that the enemy had tracked the jamming source. [50]

When the Stratofortresses went North, SAM defenses were ready. The first of these planes damaged by a missile over North Vietnam was a B-52D hit by fragments while attacking Thanh Hoa on 23 April. Not until 22 November, however, did one of the SAM's destroy a B-52, a Thailand-based plane bombing a target 24 nautical miles northwest of Vinh. The pilot, Capt. Norbert J. Ostrozny, tried to fly the crippled aircraft to Nakon Phanom but lost control about 12 nautical miles from that base. The entire crew parachuted and was rescued within a few hours. [51]

In *shooting down Ostrozny's B-52D, North.. Vietnamese radar had provided accurate guidance despite electronic jamming by the victim*, the other two bombers in the cell, and three EB-66's orbiting some distance away. As he approached the target, Captain Ostrozny had received additional protection from a chaff corridor created by four F-4's and from two Iron Hand F-105G'3. Throughout the approach, when the countermeasures were most effective, the radar operator had contented himself with passive tracking, simply following the jamming source across his scope. He allowed the B-52 to soar unchallenged to the release point. Then, as the plane turned sharply away after dropping its bombs, the wings formed an angle of roughly 45 degrees with the horizon, and the strongest part of the jamming cone passed ineffectually beyond the SAM site. At this instant, the Fan Song transmitted just long enough to pinpoint its target before the missile battery launched the two SAM's that exploded beneath the B-52. [52]

SAM controllers thus demonstrated that they had learned to take advantage of certain technical and tactical characteristics of the B-52. When Linebacker II began, the enemy already knew that the plane's jamming transmitters were least effective during sharp turns, that each Stratofortress habitually made just such a turn after dropping its bombs, and that formations usually attacked from about 35,000 feet. Armed with this information, the Fan Song operator passively tracked the jamming signal to determine azimuth and elevation, used the normal operating altitude to establish the range, then verified the range by transmitting for a couple of seconds as the three-plane cell was making its post-target turn.

These tactics minimized or entirely avoided exposure to anti-radiation missiles, and they enabled the enemy to catch the B-52 when it was most vulnerable to radar-controlled weapons. For the defenders, however, waiting for the post-target turn had an obvious failing-it permitted the bomber to reach the release point opposed only by barrage fire. [53]

The 207 B-52's in Southeast Asia carried an impressive array of countermeasures equipment that included the ALT-22 jamming transmitter, used against the Fan Song track-while-scan beacon, and the ALT-28, which could either reinforce the ALT-22 or engage in down-link jamming. By mid-December, all B-52's serving in this area mounted four ALT-28's and three ALT-22's, except for 41 of the 98 G models on Guam that carried older, less powerful ALT-6B's instead of the ALT-22's. Electronic warfare officers in the bombers usually directed two ALT-28's and two ALT-22's or ALT-6's against Fan Song and used the other pair of ALT-28's to jam the SAM guidance beacon. With the remaining ALT-22 or ALT-6, he usually attacked height-finder radars. [54]

Plans for Linebacker II B-52 strikes drew upon the experience gained during the spring of 1972. Out of respect for North Vietnamese antiaircraft guns, which had proved so deadly against Rolling Thunder fighter-bombers, the B-52's flew beyond reach of even the 85-mm weapon. At these altitudes, SAM's were their most dangerous, but the bombers maintained the three-plane cells which thus far had provided adequate countermeasures protection. To avoid mid-air collision, the cells kept 2 minutes apart.

During the first three nights, the Stratofortresses sought to minimize exposure to the SAM's by getting out of missile range as rapidly as possible, even though steeply banked turns of 113 to 160 degrees were required. The officers who approved these tactics realized that ;uch a turn was "a characteristically vulnerable position" because the "effects of both TWS and beacon jamming were minimized. " [55] They believed, however, that the greater speed in leaving the target area would more than offset the loss of jamming coverage. [56]

Linebacker II began on 18 December with 121 B-52's in three waves attacking seven targets near Hanoi. Supporting the first wave were 19 countermeasures aircraft: three EB-66's for standoff jamming, eight chaff-dispensing F-4's, and eight Wild Weasels for radar suppression. The second wave received the same countermeasures support, but as the third wave arrived, four Navy A-7's replaced the eight Wild Weasels, and five EA-3B's joined the EB-66's, their Air Force counterparts, in long-range jamming. [57] ^

Everything went well as the waves approached their targets. Capt. D. D. McCrabbe, an electronic warfare officer on board one of the bombers, felt that the SAM crews were "a little confused" at first, but the confusion ended as soon as the raiders had dropped their bombs. "We started doing our post- target turn and just all hell broke loose," the captain related. "They just started throwing everything at us." The enemy fired 164 missiles that night, downing three aircraft and damaging two others. All the hits occurred as the B-52's were turning' into wind of at least 71 knots and struggling to get out of SAM range. [58]

Pending completion of a detailed evaluation by the Security Service and the Air Staff, planners made minor adjustments in countermeasures support. For radar suppression, the first wave on the 19th could count on eight F-105G's, the second had ten and the third had four Navy A-7's. Eight F-4's laid chaff corridors for the first wave, two Phantoms sowed additional chaff for the second, and eight Phantoms preceded the final wave. Once again, five Navy EA-3B's joined three EB-66's already in covering the third wave.
^
The three B-52's lost the first night had been flying at 34, 000 feet, 38, 000 feet, and 38, 500 feet, and indication that the lowest and highest aircraft in the bomber streams had not received adequate chaff protection. As a result, base altitudes of 34, 500 and 35, 000 feet were established for the bomber cells, keeping all the aircraft closer to the center of a corridor sown from 36, 000 feet. And, in order to give the B-52's room to avoid approaching SAM's, the interval between cells was doubled to 4 minutes. This increased interval allowed the enemy more time for passive radar tracking, but the increased chaff coverage, plus the jamming barrage from the bomber cells, were expected to offset this advantage. [60]

No really drastic revision of B-52 tactics seemed necessary. As one of the aircraft commanders later pointed out, there really was no reason to change tactics at this point." The Stratofortresses, after all, had used the same basic procedures over Haiphong on 15 April and suffered no losses. "Sure," he admitted, "we lost some aircraft on the first day [of Linebacker II], but the area we flew in was better defended." On the second night, 19 December, no B-52's were lost, though two suffered damage, which seemed to confirm these views. [61]

H*ard Lessons are Learned*

The tactics that worked on the second night failed on the third, as the sky came alive with 221 SAM's, 39 more than had been fired on the 19th. "Just watching all the SAM's, " said Capt. Bruce Kordenbrock, "was like watching a show until you realized they were starting to shoot at you." To Capt. D. W. Jameison, the enemy seemed to be "just salvoing off like six SAM's at a time, " of which "maybe one or two would be tracking." Other B-52 crewmen, such as Maj. L. M. Sweet, reported hectic radar activity on the night of the 20th, with as many as three Fan Song radars simultaneously tracking a single plane. A tail gunner saw three missiles, obviously guided from the ground, pursue his bomber through a hard left turn and explode within 750 feet of him. [62]

Below the bomber stream, Captain Kordenbrock saw a stratum of antiaircraft shells bursting so close together that "you could get out and walk on it." The scene reminded him of "all the war movies you've ever heard about. TSgt C. M. O'Quinn, the tail gunner whose B-52 had been chased by three missiles, believed "they were sending up triple A [antiaircraft artillery] and SAM's together. . . , hoping we'd dive to avoid the SAM's and fly through the flak. " Although the B-52's remained above 34, 500 feet and escaped flak damage, missiles downed six bombers and damaged a seventh. [63]

Until the Security Service could evaluate the role of countermeasures on the night of the 20th, three interim actions were taken to reduce SAM effectiveness during the strikes planned for the 21st. First, electronic warfare officers shifted one jammer from the Fan Song track-while - scan beam to reinforce the downlink jamming barrage. Second, planners decided to compress the bomber stream, stacking the cells from 33, 500 to 38, 000 feet and timing their arrival over the targets at intervals between 90 and 120 seconds. This decision reversed the 19 December policy of extending the bomber streams to keep the aircraft close to the center of the chaff corridor. Finally, plans for the night of 21 December called for two of the bomber streams, 24 of the 30 attacking aircraft, to avoid sharp turns, relying on their speed, boosted by the prevailing wind, to approach from the west and to depart eastward over the Tonkin Gulf. [64]

The countermeasures evaluation for the first night, which became available on the 23d, confirmed that the three bombers lost to SAM's on 18 December had received fatal hits during post-target turns, when their jamming was least effective. More significant was the disclosure that all three had belonged to "the cells in which no jamming was committed to the beacon (downlink) frequency." [65] The shift of emphasis from Fan Song to downlink jamming therefore appeared wise.

Initial comments on chaff effectiveness on the night of 18 December implied that the corridors had been satisfactory despite winds that varied from predictions by as much as 10 degrees in direction and 14 knots in velocity. Subsequent reports stated, however, that the three Stratofortresses shot down that night had been on the fringe of a ragged corridor. The difference between the predicted winds and the air currents actually encountered had disrupted the planned chaff coverage. [66]

When the Security Service analysis of the 20 December strikes arrived, it disclosed that chaff protection had been nonexistent that night. Plans had called for 27 of the 33 attacking cells to be protected by chaff corridors while within range of SAM sites. Although "many cells flew through some portion of the corridor" during the night's operation, "only four cells were actually in chaff at their respective bomb release lines and post target turns. " The six B-52's that fell victim to SAM's were from 5 to 10 nautical miles from the chaff concentrations when hit. The wind had again blown gaps in the coverage, forcing planners to think in terms of widespread blankets rather than comparatively narrow corridors. A shortage of chaff, however, caused postponement of this modification of counter- measures tactics. [67]

The evaluation of the third night's countermeasures effectiveness also sustained the decision, made in time for the 21 December operation, to substitute speed for steeply banked turns in getting out of SAM range. The Security Service reported that the missile batteries had again concentrated their fire upon B-52's in the post-target turn. In one case, the intended victim foiled the enemy by quickly leveling off and "re-injecting the protection noise jamming element during the terminal phase of the intercept." [68]

Study of the first three nights also led to a prohibition against using certain B-52 models over Hanoi-Haiphong. One of the three B-52's shot down on the 18th, and four of the six destroyed on the 20th were B-52G's carrying ALT-6 jamming transmitters instead of the newer ALT-22. For the rest of Linebacker II, therefore, bombers mounting the ALT-6 were restricted to less heavily defended targets. [69]

As the struggle against the SAM continued additional Navy aircraft joined the support force, with EA-6B's in engaging in stand-off jamming and A-7E's flying SAM suppression. Effective 24 December, chaff blankets replaced the corridors, and the bombers began releasing chaff in self defense. The B-52 electronic warfare officers received instructions to drop the radar reflectors whenever they detected Fan Song tracking signals during any turn sharper than 45 degrees and with a bank angle of 30 degrees or more. Although designed to confuse airborne radar, the chaff would also provide some extra protection during the dangerous post-target turn. [70]

Throughout Linebacker II, countermeasure tactics underwent analysis and revision. Tests at Eglin AFB indicated that the B-52 antenna radiation pattern was ill suited for downlink jamming. In addition, the enemy seemed to be using a modified SAM, fitted with a more powerful guidance beacon that was less susceptible to a modulated noise barrage. As a result, the B-52's that attacked North Vietnam on 26 December employed only two ALT-28's against the downlink. All other transmitters jammed the track-while-scan beam, except for one ALT-22 or ALT-6 directed against height finder radars and the I-band T-8209 signal.

When the electronic warfare officer detected the T-8209, he was to switch on his ALR-18 jamming transmitter. Although designed for the airborne radar carried by MIG interceptors, this device also had some value against the T-8209. [71]

The attacks of 26 December incorporated all the counter- measures lessons learned since the 18th. Plans for the operation combined precise timing with countermeasures protection, sending 120 bombers to attack 10 targets within 15 minutes. Careful selection of approach and departure routes brought the B-52's over seven targets almost simultaneously. Also, altitudes and interval varied to confuse the defenders, with some cells climbing or descending during the shallow post-target turn. Counter-measures support required 62 Air Force and Navy planes for stand-off jamming, SAM suppression, and chaff dispensing. [72]

The 24 F-4's laying chaff on 26 December put down two blankets, one west of Hanoi and the other over Haiphong. The six B-52 cells attacking Thai Nguyen, some 30 nautical miles north of Hanoi, had no chaff cloud to protect them, but certain of the bombers released chaff during the post-target turn, whether or not a Fan Song signal was detected. [73]

Despite the resourcefulness of those who planned the raid, SAM's claimed two B-52D's on the night of 26 December, scoring both hits in the vicinity of Hanoi. One aircraft received the fatal damage before releasing its bombs, but the other went down during its post-turn. The countermeasures plan was not at fault, however, for in both cases, one aircraft in the cell had turned back, depriving the remaining pair of vital jamming power. [

https://www.allworldwars.com/Tactics-and-Techniques-of-Electronic-Warfare-by-Bernard-Nalty.html

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## Aqsuperman

Strap something old on another old thing and we have somthing new-ish :b






The Ural truck chassis seem resilient enough to handle a bunch of artillery including the 85mm D-44 above

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## Viet

A Vietnamese tank (R) competes against a tank from Tajikistan at the International Army Games 2019 in Moscow, Russia, August 11, 2019. Photo courtesy of Vietnam People's Army.







The Vietnamese chemical troop at the Safe Environment competition of International Army Games 2019 in China, August 13, 2019. Photo by Vietnam People's Army newspaper


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## Viet

*As China Looms, Vietnam Aims to Develop a More Modern, Skilled Navy*
By Ralph Jennings
August 12, 2019 09:26 AM




FILE - Vietnam Navy ships barely visible inside Cam Ranh Bay (D. Schearf/VOA).

TAIPEI - A Vietnamese military official advocates developing a more modern, better skilled navy that can hold off complex threats, mainly what experts believe to be increasing pressure from China.

A rear admiral and political commissar in Hanoi told the official _Viet Nam News_ August 6 that the navy could not be “taken by surprise at any development.

“In this complicated situation that poses many threats to the country’s defense and security, given the Navy’s role as the key defender of the country’s sovereignty, the Viet Nam People’s Navy must do more to build a strong, developed, skilled and modern naval force that can fulfill all assigned missions,” said the commissar, Phạm Văn Vững.

The commissar’s words follow the sinking of a Vietnamese fishing vessel in March — Vietnam says at the hands of China.

More recently, Chinese coast guard boats have approached a Vietnamese undersea energy exploration site near Vanguard Bank in the South China Sea. China and Vietnam vie for sovereignty over tracts of the sea where these two incidents have occurred. These two upsets are just the latest between the territorial rivals dating back centuries.




South China Sea territorial claims

Naval improvements would help Vietnam deter China, analysts believe, though Vietnamese naval firepower is unlikely to come near equaling that of China.

“I think all they can think of doing is being a bit of a deterrent,” said Murray Hiebert, deputy director of the Southeast Asia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. “Neither Vietnam nor China wants somebody to fire the first shot. That would be pretty serious. So, Vietnam sends in vessels to sort of block China.”

Navy, present and future

Today’s Vietnamese navy has 65 vessels including six submarines and six frigates, according to research database GlobalFirePower.com. It needs a “mastery of modern weapons” and “careful planning” of logistics issues, the commissar said earlier this month via Viet Nam News.




FILE - A nuclear-powered Type 094A Jin-class ballistic missile submarine of the Chinese People's Liberation Army's navy is seen during a military display in the South China Sea, April 12, 2018.

China today has one of the world’s most powerful navies at 714 vessels including 76 submarines, 33 destroyer and an aircraft carrier, GlobalFirePower.com says.

China claims about 90 percent of the disputed sea, overlapping Vietnam’s smaller claim as well as tracts that four other governments call their own. The other claimants are Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan.

Chinese maritime activity alarms particularly Vietnam because China controls the full Paracel archipelago, a South China Sea tract vehemently claimed by Hanoi. Much of Vietnam’s population resents China over the maritime dispute.




FILE - A ship (top) of Chinese Coast Guard is seen near a ship of Vietnam Marine Guard in the South China Sea, about 210 km (130 miles) off shore of Vietnam, May 14, 2014.

“Vietnam realized that they had to modernize their navy to cope with the harassment from the Chinese coast guard,” said Trung Nguyen, international relations dean at Ho Chi Minh University of Social Sciences and Humanities.

Foreign help

The Vietnamese navy should work with foreign governments, the commissar was quoted saying. It “must effectively coordinate with other military forces and civilian forces to build a whole-nation defense and people-based defense, while at the same time, maintaining diplomatic efforts, especially in terms of exchanges with naval forces from other countries,” he said.

The Southeast Asian country acquired six U.S. patrol boats this year. It normally taps Russia for weaponry, such as missile stealth frigates, Hiebert said.

Washington may eventually push to send its aircraft carriers to Vietnam once a year, Thayer said. The U.S. government has been massing allies in Asia over the past two years to help contain China’s maritime expansion.

More spats ahead?

China and Vietnam are used to conflicts over maritime sovereignty, and new ones come up despite diplomatic moves to solve previous ones.

They had already gotten into “confrontations” over fuel exploration near Vanguard Bank in the 1990s, said Carl Thayer, Southeast Asia-specialized emeritus professor with the University of New South Wales.

Vietnam backed away from the site last year but never agreed to stay away in the long term, Thayer said. This time, he said, Chinese vessels reached Vietnam’s continental shelf.

“So, now we have the arrival of this Chinese ship this year, and it’s operating on the Vietnamese side of the exclusive economic zone,” Thayer said.


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## Aqsuperman

At long last, the construction of 12 ships for Vietnam Border Guard funded by India line of credit would start at Larsen & Toubro


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## Viet

A T-72B3 tank used by Vietnam for the finals of the Tank Biathlon, part of the International Army Games 2019, in Russia, August 15, 2019. Photo courtesy of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.







A Vietnamese soldiers' combat engineer vehicle at the Safe Route competition in Russia's International Army Games on August 11, 2019. Photo by VnExpress/My Hanh

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## Viet

The B52-killer during Vietnam war, SA2 missile still plays a key part of Vietnam integrated air defense.

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## Viet

Su27 and Su30 Fighter jet with R27 heat-seeking Air-to-air missiles against enemy aircraft as well as R27 anti radar missile variant, max range 100km


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## Viet

Army Games 2019 (Russia)

female Medics


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## Viet

*Vietnam’s Strange Ally in Its Fight With China*
*The Russian oil giant Rosneft is quietly backing Hanoi in its clash with Beijing.*
BY BENNETT MURRAY | AUGUST 1, 2019, 12:48 PM






Russian navy warships sail during the parade of the Russian fleet as part of the Navy Day celebration in St. Petersburg on July 28. ALEXEY NIKOLSKY/AFP/GETTY IMAGES


As heavily armed Vietnamese and Chinese coast guard ships stare each other down in the South China Sea near the submerged Vanguard Bank, Hanoi appears to have found its spine despite threats from its gigantic neighbor. Unlike in the past two years, when Vietnam quietly scrapped a pair of drilling ventures with the Spanish energy firm Repsol under Chinese pressure, Vietnam is currently demanding that China withdraw its survey ship, _Haiyang Dizhi 8_, and its escorts from the vicinity of the oil and gas blocks. This time, Vietnam has teamed up with an old friend and key shareholder in the drilling: the Russian government.

The facts on the ground have barely changed since the most recent standoffs in 2017 and 2018. All of them occurred within China’s “nine-dash line,” the imprecise self-defined boundary in which Beijing lays claim to almost all of the South China Sea. But the contested fields, all within the 35,000-square-mile, energy-rich Nam Con Son Basin, are also largely within 200 nautical miles of Vietnam’s coastline, the international rule of thumb for determining exclusive economic zones. China is distant—more than 600 miles away—leaving Beijing no real options under the global status quo to claim the Vanguard Bank.

Nonetheless, Vietnam called off drilling in Blocks 136/03 and 07/03, the Vietnamese-licensed drilling concessions that last came under Chinese scrutiny under murky circumstances. While the reasons for the cancellations were never publicly disclosed, reports from Hanoi and within the industry suggested that China had threatened to invade Vietnamese bases in the Spratly Islands, a disputed territory that the two violently fought over in the 1980s. Vietnam, attempting to salvage its security situation amid doubts over the Trump administration’s commitment to the region, went on the retreat. It also did not help that the Philippines, which until recently had been a reliable fellow opponent of the nine-dash line, suddenly expressed ambivalence following the 2016 election of President Rodrigo Duterte.

But last time, the Madrid-based Repsol risked being cut off from its hundreds of millions of dollars in investments and potential revenue. This time, a much tougher partner is involved: Rosneft, whose primary shareholder is the Russian government. Gazprom also operates nearby, as does Zarubezhneft, a wholly Russian state-owned firm founded in 1967 whose local Vietsovpetro joint venture with PetroVietnam is all that is left of the Soviet Union’s once mighty overseas fossil fuel ventures. Where Repsol, a private firm from a minor world power, held little geopolitical clout, Russia can be expected to play old-fashioned great-power politics to defend cash flows to the state.

The Kremlin’s policy on the South China Sea dispute has never been straightforward. Officially neutral, Moscow usually provides tacit diplomatic cover to Beijing by publicly insisting that nonclaimant countries ought to stay away from the dispute. Attempts to portray the conflict as a problem of global significance, it argues, are cynical misrepresentations to justify American power grabs.

Moscow also shares Beijing’s distrust for the institutions standing in China’s way—President Vladimir Putin said Russia was “solidarizing with and supporting China’s stance” after the latter refused to recognize the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s 2016 ruling against the nine-dash line. The Russian approach to the South China Sea is not unlike China’s toward the 2014 annexation of Crimea: ostensibly neutral but deferential to the local great power while steadfastly opposed to the matter being settled in Western institutions.

But while the Kremlin’s rhetoric may be useful for China, its actions at sea have been less so. Although Russia may not officially take Vietnam’s side in the dispute, its companies are the only ones currently producing at the country’s behest within the nine-dash line. This is no minor transgression—at a time when Chinese maritime militias ruthlessly attack foreign fishermen and its military positions itself to strong-arm Vietnam out of its oil and gas fields, Russia’s cooperation with Vietnamese resource extraction is a serious (albeit low-key) affront, even if the Kremlin carefully avoids calling attention to it.

While no one expects Russia to deploy an armada from Vladivostok to challenge the People’s Liberation Army Navy, China has plenty to lose if it plays its hand too strongly against Rosneft. China’s Belt and Road Initiative, with its lofty plans to connect Eurasia, must carefully thread routes through what Russia considers to be its backyard. Some $7 billion of Chinese wealth has already been strategically placed in Ukraine, which remains locked in an undeclared war against Russian forces in its east. Georgia, whose ties with Russia have long been poisoned, has also flirted with the Belt and Road. China is also spreading its largesse among Russia’s friends in the Eurasian Economic Union, and an ambitious project to link Kazakhstan with Belarus is already underway.

While no one expects Russia to deploy an armada from Vladivostok to challenge the People’s Liberation Army Navy, China has plenty to lose if it plays its hand too strongly against Rosneft.

Keeping the peace between two powers requires substantial give and take and inevitable conflicts that must be addressed quietly as spheres of influence are established and reinforced. As a result, joint Russian-Vietnamese oil drilling off the southern Vietnamese coast is almost definitely on the negotiating table.

China, isolated as it is amid the U.S. trade war and a general wave of Western disengagement, is also in no mood to antagonize the only power that cuts it slack in the South China Sea. While it may not be in Russia’s interests to side with the regular U.S. denunciations of Chinese maritime expansionism, neither does the Kremlin particularly want Beijing to control the multitrillion-dollar shipping lanes linking the Indian and Pacific oceans.

For Vietnam’s part, linking its petroleum industry to great-power politics may be its best chance of hanging on to some of its drilling fields within the nine-dash line. It has brought the United States on board as well, with an ExxonMobil drilling project in the Blue Whale field, sandwiched precariously off the coast of Da Nang, between China’s proclaimed continental shelf boundary and one of the nine dashes. The downside is that the strategy’s success is no longer so dependent on Hanoi’s decision-making as greater winds blow. But Vietnam’s unilateral negotiating power, dwarfed as the country is by its enormous and increasingly powerful neighbor, has proved paper-thin in the past two years. Relying on Moscow, or Washington, as an advocate may not be ideal, but options are running out.

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## Nilgiri

@Viet @Carlosa @xiao qi @fadine @Viva_Viet @cochine 



*India builds 12 high-speed patrol boats for Vietnam*

https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/india-builds-12-high-speed-patrol-boats-for-vietnam-3968449.html






*Work began this week near India’s Chennai City to build 12 high-speed patrol vessels for the Vietnam Border Guard.*
The offshore vessels are built under a contract signed between the Vietnam Border Guard and Indian company Larsen & Toubro.

It was part of India’s $100-million line of credit extended to Vietnam during a trip to India in October 2014 by the then Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung.

The ships are designed to serve the protection of maritime sovereignty, strengthen security and detect illegal activities like smuggling. They can also assist with search and rescue missions, _Vietnam News Agency_ reported.

Made of aluminum alloy, they will be 35 meters long and able to reach a maximum speed of 35 knots. They will be armed with modern navigation, monitoring and defense equipment.

Five will be built at Larsen & Toubro’s Kattupalli shipyard in Chennai, Tamilnadu State, and the rest will be made at the Hong Ha Shipyard in Vietnam’s northern port city of Hai Phong using Larsen & Toubro knowhow and under its supervision.

The Indian firm will take full responsibility for the designs and technologies of all the 12 ships.

Vietnam and India established a strategic partnership in 2007.

At a ceremony held Wednesday to start the shipbuilding project, Major-General Hoang Dang Nhieu, Deputy Commander of the Vietnam Border Guard, said Vietnam and India were paying more attention to boosting collaboration between the two nations in different fields, and the shipbuilding project was an important part of it.

This high-speed patrol ship project will play a key role in strengthening the bilateral defense relations of Vietnam and India, officials of both sides said.

Retired Vice Admiral B Kannan, CEO of Larsen & Toubro Shipbuilding, said Vietnam and India have a long-standing friendship and are currently promoting their cooperation in many fields, including national defense.

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## xiao qi

Nilgiri said:


> @Viet @Carlosa @xiao qi @fadine @Viva_Viet @cochine
> 
> 
> 
> *India builds 12 high-speed patrol boats for Vietnam*
> 
> https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/india-builds-12-high-speed-patrol-boats-for-vietnam-3968449.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Work began this week near India’s Chennai City to build 12 high-speed patrol vessels for the Vietnam Border Guard.*
> The offshore vessels are built under a contract signed between the Vietnam Border Guard and Indian company Larsen & Toubro.
> 
> It was part of India’s $100-million line of credit extended to Vietnam during a trip to India in October 2014 by the then Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung.
> 
> The ships are designed to serve the protection of maritime sovereignty, strengthen security and detect illegal activities like smuggling. They can also assist with search and rescue missions, _Vietnam News Agency_ reported.
> 
> Made of aluminum alloy, they will be 35 meters long and able to reach a maximum speed of 35 knots. They will be armed with modern navigation, monitoring and defense equipment.
> 
> Five will be built at Larsen & Toubro’s Kattupalli shipyard in Chennai, Tamilnadu State, and the rest will be made at the Hong Ha Shipyard in Vietnam’s northern port city of Hai Phong using Larsen & Toubro knowhow and under its supervision.
> 
> The Indian firm will take full responsibility for the designs and technologies of all the 12 ships.
> 
> Vietnam and India established a strategic partnership in 2007.
> 
> At a ceremony held Wednesday to start the shipbuilding project, Major-General Hoang Dang Nhieu, Deputy Commander of the Vietnam Border Guard, said Vietnam and India were paying more attention to boosting collaboration between the two nations in different fields, and the shipbuilding project was an important part of it.
> 
> This high-speed patrol ship project will play a key role in strengthening the bilateral defense relations of Vietnam and India, officials of both sides said.
> 
> Retired Vice Admiral B Kannan, CEO of Larsen & Toubro Shipbuilding, said Vietnam and India have a long-standing friendship and are currently promoting their cooperation in many fields, including national defense.



Good news, thanks a lot for your support to our country

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## Viet

Women power





Nguyen Hong Minh is a police officer at Jangseong County Police Department, South Jeolla Province, South Korea. Photo courtesy of Nguyen Hong Minh.






Nguyen Hong Minh, second from left, and her colleagues at Jangseong County Police Department, South Jeolla Province. Photo courtesy of Nguyen Hong Minh.


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## Aqsuperman

Well, it's high time Vietnam toss out its own pressure to the East Sea dispute. Here come the installation of Sao Vàng - Đại Nguyệt rig in Block 06.1, 350 km to the Southeast of Vung Tau.

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## Viet

Aqsuperman said:


> Well, it's high time Vietnam toss out its own pressure to the East Sea dispute. Here come the installation of Sao Vàng - Đại Nguyệt rig in Block 06.1, 350 km to the Southeast of Vung Tau.


The right move: building oil rigs across our Eez waters. Why not inviting Germany to drill? Let’s see if Angela Merkel receives a chinese Ultimatum?


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## Viet

Apparently a Vietnamese clone of Russia‘s coastal missile defense system Rubezh-ME. The missile is originated from Kh35 antiship missile.


145 kg warhead, capable of engaging a surface target at ranges between 7 km and 260 km. INS/GLONASS navigation system.












Oh cool!
Making old to new
T54/55 tanks




Các khung thân xe tăng T-54/55 đang được nâng cấp tại Nhà máy Z153






Xe tăng T-54/55 sau khi hoàn tất quá trình hiện đại hóa


Vietnamese team performed better than expected at Army Games (Russia).




Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng Nga Sergey Shoigu (ngoài cùng bên trái) và Thượng tướng Phan Văn Giang, Tổng Tham mưu trưởng Quân đội nhân dân Việt Nam, thưởng thức chè xanh ở ngoại ô Moskva ngày 17/8. Ảnh: _QĐND._





Bộ trưởng Sergey Shoigu thích thú với tiếng đàn bầu dân tộc của Việt Nam. Ảnh:_ QĐND._

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## Aqsuperman

*United States, Southeast Asia to hold first ever joint maritime drill*




The US has traditionally been the dominant naval power in Southeast Asia and will hold its first-ever joint maritime exercises with the region's countries in September. (Photo: AFP/Ted Aljibe)






BANGKOK: The US and 10 Southeast Asian states will hold their first-ever joint maritime exercises in September, aimed at preventing "wrongdoing" as Washington and Beijing jostle for influence in the region.

Washington has traditionally been the dominant naval power in Southeast Asia and its re-engagement with the area comes as a deteriorating trade war with China threatens to engulf the global economy.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo attended a regional summit earlier this month with the 10-country Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in a bid to promote the Trump administration's so-called "Indo-Pacific" strategy.

Also a source of friction is China's expansive claims to the South China Sea, as the resource-rich waters contain some of the world's most vital commercial shipping lanes.

Despite having conflicting interests with four rival claimants in ASEAN, China last year held a joint maritime drill with the regional bloc.





US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo attended a regional summit earlier this month with the 10-country Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in a bid to promote the Trump administration's so-called "Indo-Pacific" strategy. (Photo: AFP/Romeo Gacad)

The navies of the US and ASEAN will do the same on Sep 2, the US embassy in Bangkok announced late Friday (Aug 23), with the exercises launching at a Thai naval base in Chonburi province east of Bangkok.

The purpose of the five-day maritime drill is to "maintain maritime security, focus on prevention and pre-empt wrongdoing in the sea", said a US embassy statement.

The drills will primarily take place off the coast of Vietnam's southernmost Ca Mau province, where the US Navy will dispatch "suspicious boats" in a mock exercise to help ASEAN's navies to "search, verify and legally prosecute" the boats.

Tensions between China and Vietnam have been high since July in the disputed sea when a Chinese survey ship entered waters where Hanoi has several oil and gas projects.

The ship left for a brief period this month, and then came back - prompting calls from Hanoi to vacate the area.

But a Thai defence ministry spokesman on Saturday played down the timing of the US-ASEAN drills.

"We held exercises with China, now we are having exercises with the US ... it has nothing to do with the current situation," said Lieutenant General Kongcheep Tantravanich.

On Friday, a US military ship sailed through the Taiwan Strait to conduct a "freedom of navigation" voyage, the island's defence ministry said.

The move is likely to further irk China in the wake of Washington's latest US$8 billion arms sales to self-ruling Taiwan, which Beijing views as part of its territory.

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## congtubl

*Vietnam-Cambodia Border Friendship Exchange fosters trust and cooperation*
*



*
*



*

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## Aqsuperman

VPN is going to send HQ-18, a Pohang-class corvette to the AUMX exercise. With its torpedo racks removed, HQ-18 is essentially an overpowered gunboat.

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## sahureka2



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## congtubl

[QUOTE = "sahureka2, bài đăng: 11746696, thành viên: 175938"]




[MEDIA = youtube] k8rt6aSwi6o [/ MEDIA] [/ QUOTE]















> T-54M получил систему управления огнем TIFCS-3BU, созданную испанской компанией по разработке информационных технологий и вооружений Indra Sistemas. Данная система обеспечивает полностью автоматическое наведение пушки, включает в свой состав лазерный дальномер TSGS-54BU и тепловизор. Он была разработана специально для российских танков, таких как Т-54, Т-72 и прочих.[/ QUOTE]


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## congtubl



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## Viet

congtubl said:


>


Galil 31?





7.62X39mm Assault Rifle
216mm barrel length

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## Ultima Thule

Viet said:


> Galil 31?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.62X39mm Assault Rifle
> 216mm barrel length


Did you make/manufacture even some small arm for Vietnamese military @Viet

So you don't make/manufacture any single bullet at home, which lesser economy Pakistan is making Cruise Missiles/ Ballistic Missiles/ Artillery shells/precision guided munitions/fighter jets etc etc, in that base you wanna take on your main opponent China @Viet if you thinks so then you are the biggest fool in the world @Viet

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## Viet

pakistanipower said:


> Did you make/manufacture even some small arm for Vietnamese military @Viet
> 
> So you don't make/manufacture any single bullet at home, which lesser economy Pakistan is making Cruise Missiles/ Ballistic Missiles/ Artillery shells/precision guided munitions/fighter jets etc etc, in that base you wanna take on your main opponent China @Viet if you thinks so then you are the biggest fool in the world @Viet


Bro we make nearly all sorts of rifles, artillery guns, bullets, missiles.
I see great military cooperation between Vietnam and Pakistan. For example we lack of capabilities in ballistic missiles.

Inside a factory































Does Pakistani army need any Galil rifles? Galil 31, Galil 32. We make them at very low cost. For every 100 rifles, you buy, you get 1 free 
You buy more, you get more.






_

_

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## Ultima Thule

Viet said:


> Bro we make nearly all sorts of rifles, artillery guns, bullets, missiles.
> I see great military cooperation between Vietnam and Pakistan. For example we lack of capabilities in ballistic missiles.
> 
> Inside a factory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Pakistani army need any Galil rifles? Galil 31, Galil 32. We make them at very low cost. For every 100 rifles, you buy, you get 1 free
> You buy more, you get more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> _


ok only small arm but what missiles do you invented from scratch @Viet


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## Viet

pakistanipower said:


> ok only small arm but what missiles do you invented from scratch @Viet


Do you have ballistic missile submarines?


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## Ultima Thule

Viet said:


> Do you have ballistic missile submarines?


No @Viet


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## Viet

pakistanipower said:


> No @Viet


Not good

But a great chance for Vietnam/Pakistan military work sharing 

a network of Radar Elm-2084 (originated from Israel) is deployed.
Vietnam’s Air defence Elm Radars are able to detect incredible 1,200 targets combined (in case of massive attacks by warplanes, missiles, drones on Vietnam territory). Range 475km.







I think we need a longer range radars, more than 1,000km.

The Jews are smart people.

I have full trust to them.

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## Ultima Thule

Viet said:


> Not good
> 
> But a great chance for Vietnam/Pakistan military work sharing
> 
> a network of Radar Elm-2084 (originated from Israel) is deployed.
> Vietnam’s Air defence Elm Radars are able to detect incredible 1,200 targets combined (in case of massive attacks by warplanes, missiles, drones on Vietnam territory). Range 475km.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think we need a longer range radars, more than 1,000km.
> 
> The Jews are smart people.
> 
> I have full trust to them.


we don't need a 1000 km radar, 400- 500 km radar enough for us to detect attack from india, we have also US MP-77 and Chinese YL-12A long range radars (AESA) with similar range in our arsenal @Viet


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## Viet

pakistanipower said:


> we don't need a 1000 km radar, 400- 500 km radar enough for us to detect attack from india, we have also US MP-77 and Chinese YL-12A long range radars (AESA) with similar range in our arsenal @Viet


It has some benefits if you can detect enemy missiles at early stage, preferably when missiles are launched. The earlier you can detect the more you are prepared. China has 6 missile armies, with 2 stationed at the direct northern flank. 4 more are further north. When missiles are at terminal phase, Vietnam would have only minutes to respond.


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## congtubl

pakistanipower said:


> we don't need a 1000 km radar, 400- 500 km radar enough for us to detect attack from india, we have also US MP-77 and Chinese YL-12A long range radars (AESA) with similar range in our arsenal @Viet






VRS-2DM









rv-02
VN Product and export radar RV-02, i thinks we can sharing.


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## Ultima Thule

congtubl said:


> VRS-2DM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rv-02
> VN Product and export radar RV-02, i thinks we can sharing.


Looks like based on old vintage tech from Soviet Union/Russia @congtubl


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## congtubl

pakistanipower said:


> Looks like based on old vintage tech from Soviet Union/Russia @congtubl


Does Russia product Galil?Why did you think it? All machines, the manual English, you can see in this Video.
We change from Russia Ak to Galil Israel.

Here the AK-103 we can product





New ver STL-A1


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## Nike

pakistanipower said:


> Looks like based on old vintage tech from Soviet Union/Russia @congtubl







Right side, looks like P 18 VHF radar, on the left P 15 2dimension uhf radar , both Soviet legacy

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## Viet

More Soviet legacy 

T54M











@Nilgiri

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## congtubl

[QUOTE = "Marine Rouge, bài đăng: 11753391, thành viên: 145637"] [ATTACH = đầy đủ] 578185 [/ ATTACH]
Bên phải, trông giống như radar P 18 VHF, bên trái radar Uh 2dimension uhf, cả hai di sản của Liên Xô [/ QUOTE]
No...we product it, from License Czech, radar P18M












*VRS-2DM Viettel*
*



*




*VRS-M2D*
*



*

New radar


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## Viet

Chinese PLA Navy soldiers on a naval vessel in the South China Sea. Photo: Twitter

*Why China is picking a fight with Vietnam*
Analysts see Vietnam as China’s preferred ‘warm-up fight’ before a bigger battle with the US in the South China Sea

ByDAVID HUTT


If simmering tensions erupt into full-blown conflict in the South China Sea, increasingly it seems the first shots to be fired would be between China and Vietnam.

The two rival sea claimants have been locked in a weeks-long standoff over the energy-rich Vanguard Bank, with neither side apparently ready to back down. While China opposes any rival claimants’ move to develop energy resources in contested sea areas, the current confrontation with Vietnam may serve a dual strategic purpose.

Derek Grossman, a senior defense analyst at the RAND corporation, a Washington-based think tank, has argued that if China was to launch a military offensive in the South China Sea, its most likely choice of combatant would be Vietnam.

Vietnam is Beijing’s “preferred warm-up fight,” he wrote earlier this year before the Vanguard Bank standoff, reasoning it is “a middle-sized power that should be easily defeatable” by the Chinese military.

Although conflict is still unlikely, Beijing is again ramping up its aggression and “gunboat diplomacy” by pressuring Hanoi to end its exploration for oil and gas in the contested waters.

In July, a Chinese survey ship, Haiyang Dizhi 8, along with an armed flotilla, spent weeks sailing near the Vanguard Bank, a maritime area well within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ).

In mid-August, after it seemed the survey ship had returned to China, it reappeared in Vietnamese waters where local and Russian energy firms are jointly exploring for oil.





Vanguard Bank area circled in red. Image: Wikimedia Commons


Last year, similar pressure from China forced Hanoi to cancel a US$200 million oil exploration contract it had entered with Spanish energy firm Repsol. China claims almost 90% of the South China Sea through its so-called nine-dash line map, a wide-reaching demarcation which was rejected by an arbitral tribunal at The Hague in July 2016.

The BBC’s Vietnamese service reported on September 3 that the deep-water crane Lam Kihn was moved by state-owned China Oil and Gas Group into Vietnamese waters, a move that will inevitably heighten tensions.

If true, China and Vietnam could be in for a repeat of their volatile 2014 standoff, when the state-run China National Offshore Oil Corporation moved its semi-submersible Hai Yang Shi You 981 oil rig and fishing militia into waters claimed by Vietnam near the Spratly Islands.

China’s alleged move of the Lam Kihn crane into Vietnamese waters comes as Vietnam and the nine other members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) take part this week in inaugural maritime naval exercises with the United States.

It also comes just a month before Vietnamese President and Communist Party chief, Nguyen Phu Trong, is expected to make a high-profile state visit to Washington, at which the US and Vietnam could upgrade their relations to a “strategic partnership.”

Chinese and Vietnamese forces last came to blows in 1988 during a skirmish around the South China Sea’s Johnson South Reef, a clash that killed 64 Vietnamese soldiers. That followed on a brief but bloody border war in 1979 where both sides lost thousands of soldiers.

Times have changed since those previous short-lived conflicts. The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is now one of the world’s largest and most well-equipped militaries. In 2017, Chinese President Xi Jinping called for the PLA “to be fully transformed into world-class forces” by 2050. Yet there is believed to be deep insecurity in Beijing about how prepared the military is to fight a large-scale conflict.

Xi has spoken about the PLA suffering from “peace disease” because they haven’t been in an actual conflict situation for decades. Given the turnaround of senior officials since the last real conflict in 1979, most have never been in a war.





Chinese President Xi Jinping reviews a military display of Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy in the South China Sea on April 12, 2018. Photo: Xinhua

Dennis Blasko, a noted observer of the Chinese military, argued in February that despite the considerable investment in weaponry and technology, and massive structural reforms, there remains “a lack of confidence in PLA capabilities and a failure of the PLA’s educational and training systems to prepare commanders and staff officers for future war.”

“Therefore,” he added, “the senior Chinese military leadership demonstrates little or no enthusiasm to commit the PLA to actual combat against a modern foe, preferring to achieve China’s national objectives through deterrence and actions short of war conducted by a combination of civilian, government, paramilitary, and military forces.”

This insecurity will factor into who China sees as a viable opponent. Fighting India on land and high in the Himalayas “does the PLA little good” to prepare for air and naval warfare, Grossman wrote. Conflict in the Korean peninsula would likely be far too violent and close to home.

Fighting against Japan, the Philippines or South Korea would probably involve the American military, as each have security alliances with the US. The Taiwan Relations Act commits Washington to coming to Taiwan’s defense in the event of Chinese military aggression.

Beijing would “prefer a conflict that is winnable” and “Vietnam is fundamentally incapable of sustaining operations on par with China due to shortfalls in capabilities, training, and manpower,” Grossman has argued.

Less academic analysis has gone into how the Vietnam People’s Army’s (VPA) sees its own position. Hanoi tends to be more secretive than Beijing while its academic circles are even more hermetic. The Ministry of National Defence published its last defense “white paper” a decade ago, to mark the 65th anniversary of the VPA’s foundation.

Analysts agree, however, that Hanoi is taking military matters increasingly seriously as tensions in the South China Sea escalate year by year.

Businesswire reported in April that Vietnam’s government earmarked US$5.1 billion for military expenditure in this year’s budget, about a third of which will go towards defense equipment procurements. Some analysts estimate that Hanoi’s military spending could rise to $7.9 billion by 2024.

There are also certain signs of concern about the military’s readiness – and the need to do more. In June, the National Defense Journal, run by Vietnam’s Defense Ministry, published an essay on the military’s training and human resources.





Performers dance with large national flags marking an anniversary of Vietnam’s communist regime in Hanoi, February 3, 2017. Photo: AFP/Hoang Dinh Nam

“The training of cadres in the military is not even and balanced; content and training programs are still slow to innovate; the update of new military knowledge and technology in training is not higher,” it warned.
Clearly, Vietnam has a much weaker military than China’s.

Vietnam spends about $5 billion a year on its military; China spends $220 billion. China has five times the number of active personnel as Vietnam, and has ten times the number of aircraft (3,187 to 318) and almost 11 times as many naval vessels (714 to 65). China also has much better equipment; the People’s Liberation Army Navy has aircraft carriers and destroyers, assets Vietnam lacks.

Most analysts reckon that, given this asymmetry, Vietnam’s only strategic choice would be defensive in the event of a conflict. Still, there doesn’t appear to be a consensus on this in Hanoi.

In an article for the National Defense Journal published on August 30, Information Minister Nguyen Manh Hung – who is also a major-general in the VPA and a former chairman of Viettel, a military-owned conglomerate – wrote that “in the future, if war happens to our country, it will be a people’s war to protect a developed country against the enemy’s aggression.”

However, he noted that “in the wars against our ancestors before, and our Party later, our nation often faced enemies with outstanding military power and strength, but we took the offensiveness as the dominant ideology, instead of passiveness or passive defense,” he wrote.

“Offensive thoughts,” he added, creates unity amongst the people, and a belief that they won’t surrender regardless of how strong the enemy is. He, however, also used the phrase “phòng ngự tích cực”, which is similar to the Chinese concept of an “active defense” or “positive defense” – a term used in the 1980s by then-leader Deng Xiaoping to mean strategically defensive but operationally offensive.





A Vietnamese soldier stands watch overlooking the South China Sea. Photo: Facebook

This would certainly suggest that senior Vietnamese Communist Party officials are seriously weighing the possibility of war, and how it might be waged. It is thus probably not a coincidence that the Communist Party has given newspapers more leeway to write about this year’s anniversary of Vietnam-China border wars.

Reports from earlier this year suggest that Vietnam has been quietly expanding its maritime militia and arming more of its coast guard in preparation of even more aggressive tactics by China’s equivalents.

Given the military mismatch, Vietnam’s greatest deterrence would likely come through international partnerships. And Hanoi has been busy making new friends. For instance, Vietnam agreed last month to expand defense ties with South Africa, while Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison reaffirmed their military cooperation during an anticipated visit to Hanoi.

Vietnam has also signed new defense agreements with the European Union and Japan this year. Most important, however, would be if Hanoi could win more strategic assurances from its former battlefield foe the US.

Much thus hangs on Trong’s upcoming visit to Washington. While mostly facile – US relations with Vietnam are far better than the semantics would belie – it would send a stronger signal that America is backing Vietnam, and serve as a long-term deterrent to China, if the two sides agreed to upgrade their strategic relations.

It will almost certainly stop short of a defense pact, since the Vietnamese Communist Party’s internal rules – the so-called “Three No’s” – forbid it from signing military pacts with other nations. However, an ungraded partnership could allow for more US naval vessel visits to Vietnam – something that Washington wants – and perhaps a commitment from Hanoi to purchase more military hardware from the US.

Vietnam currently buys about four-fifths of its military equipment from Russia and a tenth from Israel. In return for more purchases, Washington may offer clarity over whether Vietnam will be sanctioned over the prolix Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA), which can sanction nations that purchase weapons from Russia.





US President Donald Trump (L) speaks with his Vietnamese counterpart Nguyen Phu Trong at the Presidential Palace in Hanoi on February 27, 2019. Photo: AFP via Vietnam News Agency

Vietnam has been temporarily exempted from CAATSA, and former secretary of defense James Mattis had sought a waiver for Vietnam. But to make the exemption more permanent Hanoi must show that it is reducing its dependency on Russian military imports.

Also by purchasing more American military hardware, Vietnam would reduce its considerable trade surplus with the US, something known to irk the Donald Trump administration.

Washington has certainly been firm against Beijing’s latest actions in the South China Sea, which the State Department described as “coercive interference in Vietnam’s longstanding oil and gas activities.” The State Department also noted last month that China is trying to block access “to an estimated $2.5 trillion in unexploited hydrocarbon resources” in the South China Sea’s waters.

The US Defense Department, meanwhile, highlighted in a report last year that China is the world’s second largest consumer of crude oil and the third largest country consumer of natural gas. Moreover, its reliance on imported gas, which accounted for 67% of its needs in 2017, could grow to 80% by 2035, therefore raising the importance of untapped resources in the South China Sea.

The US will need to show that it is serious about ensuring Vietnam’s security vis-a-vis China. Hanoi no doubt remembers that then US president Barack Obama declined to defend a treaty ally when China seized the Scarborough Shoal from the Philippines in 2012. Neither did Obama provide any support to Vietnam during the 2014 Hai Yang Shi You 981 standoff.

Trump has continued largely in the same vein, making stern statements but not backed by action when China successfully forced Vietnam to cancel oil exploration deals last year and in 2017 in contested South China Sea areas.

China’s pressing maneuvers near the Vanguard Bank, and its alleged moving of a crane into Vietnamese waters, are arguably now more dangerous as its vessels now have access to new naval and air facilities on artificial features it has developed in the sea.





A satellite image of the Fiery Cross Reef in the South China Sea. Photo: Planet Labs
This means that vessels no longer need to return to mainland China for refueling and maintenance during journeys into the South China Sea. It also means they can patrol much closer to the Vietnamese coastline and for longer periods of time.

China’s Haiyang Dizhi 8 now faced off with Vietnamese vessels at Vanguard Bank reportedly went to a new naval base established on the nearby Fiery Cross Reef, not the Chinese mainland, to refuel before returning to the contested feature.

If the standoff with Vietnam escalates into an armed confrontation, it could provide China a test case of its readiness for a possible bigger fight in the contested sea in the years to come.


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## Viet

*Vietnamese warship completes US-ASEAN maritime drill*

By *Quy Nguyen*
Sat 9/7/2019




Vietnam's submarine hunting battleship No.18 takes part in aerial photographic exercise in the U.S.-ASEAN maritime exercise that wrapped up on September 6, 2019. Photo courtesy of the Vietnam's Navy. 

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)-U.S. Maritime Exercise (AUMX) started on Monday at the Sattahip Naval Base in Thailand and wrapped up in Singapore.

The crew of battleship No.18, a Pohang-class corvette that South Korea gifted to Vietnam last year, was part of the combined task group alongside with the Philippine Navy’s BRP Ramon Alcaraz and the Royal Brunei Navy’s KDB Darulaman.

Under the command of the Philippine Navy’s BRP Ramon Alcaraz headed by Captain Hilarion Cesista, the No.18 ship participated in activities including coding and decoding of electronic versions (PUBEX), light communication (FLASHEX), night cruises and aerial photographic exercise (PHOTOEX).

The Vietnamese warship also performed a visit, board, search, and seizure (VBSS) drill and was on sentry duty for naval ships of the Philippines, Brunei and the U.S.

The No.18 battleship performed combined tasks well and received highly appreciation from regional countries, Vietnam People's Army newspaper reported.

The drills come at a time of rising U.S. engagement in the region and tensions between Beijing and Southeast Asian nations over the South China Sea.

The AUMX was proposed by former U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis at a meeting with his 10 ASEAN counterparts on the sidelines of the ASEAN Defense Ministers Meeting-Plus in October 2017 in the Philippines.

The proposal was approved at the ASEAN Defense Ministers Meeting one year later in Singapore and it was agreed that AUMX drill will only take place once and not on a regular basis.

Eight warships, four aircraft and more than a thousand personnel from the U.S. and all 10 countries took part in the maritime exercise.

Last October, the Vietnamese navy sent its 015 Tran Hung Dao frigate to participate in a five-day joint naval exercise with ASEAN and China at Zhanjiang City, Guangdong Province. The event aimed to foster stability and relieve tensions in the region.

In June last year, Vietnam also sent eight naval officers to Hawaii to participate in the Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) Exercise, the world’s largest multinational naval drill held every two years. Participating in the one-month maritime exercise were 47 surface ships, five submarines, 18 national land forces, and more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 naval forces.


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## Viet

Vietnam’s T72-B3 in sky blue at Russia tank biathlon


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## Viet

Super heavy P35B missile


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## Viet

*British Aircraft Carrier Plans to Sail in South China Sea*
September 11, 2019

By George Mtimba


Chinese Ambassador Liu Xiaoming rejected the statement by the Royal Navy that they would be maintaining international law regarding freedom of navigation.
The new British aircraft carrier, HMS Queen Elizabeth, would be sent to the South China Sea on her first operational deployment.
Experts believe Brexit is forcing Britain to pivot to the American position on the South China Sea.

China warned Britain not to enter the South China Sea to sail near disputed islands, saying that it constitutes “hostile behavior,” and implied that Beijing would be forced to make a military response. The Chinese ambassador in London said that Britain “should not do this dirty job for somebody else.”





The South China Sea disputes involve both island and maritime claims among several sovereign states within the region, namely Brunei, the People’s Republic of China (PRC), the Republic of China (ROC/Taiwan), Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam. An estimated $3.37 trillion worth of global trade passes through the South China Sea annually, which accounts for a third of the global maritime trade. 80 percent of China’s energy imports and 39.5 percent of China´s total trade passes through the South China Sea.

Speaking at the Defense Reporters Association in London, Chinese Ambassador Liu Xiaoming rejected the statement by the Royal Navy that they would be maintaining international law regarding freedom of navigation. According to Sky News, Liu said that the South China Sea is big enough— an open sea area with an area of 3 million square kilometers— and there is no problem in free sailing. China does not object to anyone sailing there, but vessels cannot enter Chinese territorial waters within 12 nautical miles.

Anglo-American “Special Relationship” and the South China Sea

In February last year, British Defense Minister Gavin Williamson said that the United Kingdom must be prepared to use “hard power” to deter adversaries. The new British aircraft carrier, HMS Queen Elizabeth, would be sent to the South China Sea on her first operational deployment.

According to Sky News, the military attache of the Chinese Embassy, who participated in the activities of the Defense Reporters Association with the Chinese ambassador, said, “if the United States and the United Kingdom jointly challenge or violate China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, it will constitute hostilities.” The British government responded that the United Kingdom opposes the “militarization” of the South China Sea and insists that the British aircraft carrier will still visit the South Pacific in 2021. A British government spokesman told Sky News that the navigation of the international navy in the South China Sea is normal, and the Royal Navy is no exception.





The HMS Queen Elizabeth is the largest and most powerful vessel ever constructed for the Royal Navy, set to enter service in 2020. In February, then-Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson confirmed that her first mission will take place in the Pacific region, where Beijing has been involved in a dispute over navigation rights and territorial claims in the South China Sea.

Chinese think tank experts believe that Britain has no special position on the issue of competition in the South China Sea, and generally expresses its concern about the South China Sea issue within the EU framework. However, since the Brexit referendum in 2016, the UK has abandoned its policy of not holding a position on the South China Sea issue and began to express its high profile to maintain freedom of navigation and overflight in the South China Sea. In 2017, the foreign minister, now Prime Minister Boris Johnson, said that the first action of the British aircraft carrier was to go to the South China Sea for cruising.

At the beginning of 2018, two British frigates and an amphibious assault ship entered the Asia Pacific waters and crossed the Vietnamese Sea several times. The British amphibious assault ship entered the waters of the Xisha Islands in China without notice, causing protests in Beijing.

Liu Jin, a European expert at the China Institute of International Studies, believes that the main reason for Britain’s policy of changing the South China Sea is the pressure brought by Brexit. Because Britain’s diplomatic choices have narrowed after Brexit, the special relationship between Britain and the United States has become more important, so it is more susceptible to political pressure from the United States. Liu Jin believes that the UK’s active involvement in the South China Sea issue is a move toward the US South China Sea policy, with the aim of strengthening the special relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States.

Free navigation” to China’s approval?

The Nansha Islands and the Xisha Islands are located on the main channel of the South China Sea and have important strategic significance. However, China, Vietnam and the Philippines have sovereignty disputes here.

The US Navy often conducts “free sailing” in the South China Sea and challenges China’s territorial position in the South China Sea. Washington accused Beijing of illegally building military facilities on the South China Sea islands, but China referred to this as an overbearing provocation from the Americans.


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## congtubl

With italian.


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## Viet

Two Submarine hunters, previously donated by RoK government, will reportedly receive Kh35 antiship missiles.















4,000 ton navy vessel with 40mm cannon

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## sahureka2

congtubl said:


> With italian.



That of the images is the Drakon 220 designed in Croatia
http://www.hisutton.com/New Croatian midget sub - Drakon 220.html


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## congtubl

sahureka2 said:


> That of the images is the Drakon 220 designed in Croatia
> http://www.hisutton.com/New Croatian midget sub - Drakon 220.html


Yes...
This is right, DK 450
http://www.hisutton.com/DRASS.html





@Viet : KCT-15 not UranE, with radar surface, sona form India

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## Viet

congtubl said:


> Yes...
> This is right, DK 450
> http://www.hisutton.com/DRASS.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Viet : KCT-15 not UranE, with radar surface, sona form India


Yes ok I prefer the name Kh35 though. Vietnam‘s antiship missile Kct15 is a licensed built Kh35.


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## Viet

An article on Vietnam’s Su30 fighter jets was recently published in a chinese defense forum.





*Báo Trung Quốc nói gì về tiêm kích Su-30MK2 hiện đại nhất của Không quân Việt Nam?*





Các phi công Trung đoàn không quân 935 bên cạnh tiêm kích Su-30MK2

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## Viet

*Air Force generals Goldfein, Brown make historic visit to Vietnam*
By Charles Pope, Secretary of the Air Force Public Affairs / Published September 12, 2019





Air Force Chief of Staff nominee Gen. David L. Goldfein awaits the start of his Senate Armed Services Committee confirmation hearing on Capitol Hill, June 16, 2016. In the background are his wife, Dawn; daughter, Diana; mother, Mary; and father, Bill.



JOE GROMELSKI/STARS AND STRIPES








Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein meets with his Vietnamese counterpart, Lieutenant General Lê Huy Vịnh, during his historic visit to Hanoi, Vietnam, in August. Goldfein and Vinh discussed ways to strengthen the partnership between the two countries on a range of topics. “What was really rewarding was how sincerely warm the reception was,” Goldfein said. (Courtesy photo)




ARLINGTON, Va. (AFNS) --
As his plane approached Hanoi during the middle leg of a trip across the Indo-Pacific in August, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David L. Goldfein confronted a set of powerful and unusual reactions as he peered out the window to the countryside below.

“I realized I was looking at the exact same picture my dad looked at in the cockpit of his F-4 (Phantom II); I looked down and saw this big river that was flowing very red with mud and I said, ‘Well, there it is, the Red River Valley’ as it came into view,” Goldfein said.

Gen. CQ Brown Jr, Pacific Air Forces commander, was on the flight as well. He too experienced a similar swell of memories and emotions as the plane closed in on Vietnam.

“As a young officer, my father did two tours in Vietnam working special operations intelligence and subsequently as an adviser to a South Vietnamese transportation unit. As we flew in, I reflected on my memories of my dad leaving home and at such a young age not fully appreciating he’d gone to war in this very country,” Brown said.

For Americans of a certain age like Goldfein and Brown, Vietnam remains an unshakable memory even today, 44 years after the era-defining war ended. The memory and the reactions it triggers are even more pronounced for people like Goldfein and Brown – second-generation service members whose fathers fought in a war whose legacy continues to influence military thinking and strategy to this day.

The view from the window and the memories it triggered, however, were misleading.

In two days of meetings with senior Vietnamese officials, the prevailing atmosphere was how best to work together. What Goldfein and Brown experienced was the new Vietnam.

“I wasn’t sure what kind of reception we’d get given our history between our two countries,” Goldfein conceded. “What was really rewarding was how sincerely warm the reception was.”

“Those that had once been my father’s adversaries were now our partners focused on common security interests,” Brown said. “We were warmly received by our Vietnam hosts, a complete (departure) from the reception experienced by our Vietnam-era POWs.”

That is no illusion. Despite an anguished past, the connection today between the United States and Vietnam has realized achievements on multiple fronts and holds potential for even broader cooperation.

The U.S. normalized trade relations with Vietnam in 1994 and diplomatic relations were fully restored in 1995. More recently, Vietnam joined the World Trade Organization in 2007. Vietnam is now the United States’ 16th largest trading partner and the U.S. ranks as Vietnam’s third largest trading partner.

Along with Indonesia and Malaysia, Vietnam is emerging as an important fixture in a changing region. As such, U.S. policy toward Vietnam includes efforts to build a “strategic partnership” that is rooted in “common interests and principles, including freedom of navigation, respect for a rules-based order in accordance with international law and recognition of national sovereignty.”

Distinct actions clearly illustrate that posture and highlight the “then and now” nature of the relationship.

Goldfein’s visit marked the first time a U.S. Air Force chief of staff came to Vietnam since the war ended. Another major example of how relations have changed occurred last year, when a U.S. aircraft carrier came to Vietnam for the first time since the war ended.

More broadly, the U.S. military engages in numerous annual training exchanges and activities to enhance bilateral cooperation and interoperability with the Vietnam People’s Army, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard.

Experts support the conclusion by Goldfein and Brown that Vietnam offers an opportunity for the U.S. to cooperate on security issues.

“While disagreements over the (U.S.-Vietnam) trade imbalance could temporarily stall progress, China’s growing influence in the region will likely push U.S. and Vietnamese strategic interests closer together,” the Council on Foreign Relations concluded in a 2019 analysis of U.S. and Vietnam relations.

The connection came through during meetings, Goldfein said.

“Here we are sitting in this room as the second generation of combatants who went after one another all those years and we are talking about partnership. It was surreal,” he said of the conversation with senior Vietnamese military leaders in Hanoi.

“We’ve been very serious about legacy war issues, including efforts to help clean up dioxin (better known as Agent Orange, a cancer-causing defoliant that was sprayed across the countryside during the war). We’re also serious about the repatriation of remains, including Vietnamese remains when they are found,” Goldfein said.

Another catalyst is China, which is moving to expand its influence. It is especially active in the South China Sea off Vietnam’s coast.

Vietnam and other countries have taken note and reacted, Brown said.

“I’ve noticed the increased focus and whole-of-government efforts by nations to ensure a safe and secure environment free of coercion,” he said. “There is more bilateral and multilateral cooperation and collaboration than in year’s past.”

Despite the history, Goldfein said there were no awkward moments.

“None at all. If you think about it, this is not new. How many aces have befriended their fellow aces? … In every conflict afterwards, sometimes the profession of arms gets you beyond the animosities that got you to go to war in the first place.”

And yet, despite the emergence of the “new” Vietnam, memories of an earlier time were never far from Goldfein or Brown.

From their hotel in Hanoi, they could see the red rooftop of what remains of the notorious Hanoi Hilton, a prison camp operated by the North Vietnamese, where U.S. servicemen were held in harsh conditions in some cases for years. Among them were Air Force pilots Lee Ellis and Bud Day. Each endured more than five years in prison.

Goldfein, who during the trip was reading Ellis’s book, “Leading with Honor,” chronicling his years as a prisoner of war, was able to tour the prison with Brown.

“That only made it more personal, that I was standing in a cell that (Ellis) probably spent some time in or John McCain,” Goldfein said. “It’s pretty surreal and moving.”

Brown’s reaction was similar.

“Standing in one of the concrete cells for just a few moments. I reflected on the fact that many of our POWs spent not moments, but years in these cells under arduous conditions. It was a very sobering experience,” he said.

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## congtubl

http://ttvnol.com/threads/tang-thiet-giap-viet-nam-phan-2.495933/page-1014#post-45523550

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## Viet

Inside A31 repair and maintenance facility


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## congtubl

New radar

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## Viet

*S. Korean Defense Ministry rejects petition from Vietnam War civilian massacre survivors*
Posted on : Sep.28,2019 08:09 KST Modified on : Sep.28,2019 08:09 KST

print 프린트
Larger font size 글씨크기 크게
Smaller font size 글씨크기 작게
103 survivors demanded investigation into massacres in April




The two Nguyens hold a press conference in front of the Blue House after submitting their petition for victims of civilian massacres by South Korean troops during the Vietnam War on Apr. 4.(Joh Yun-yeong, staff reporter)


Nguyen Thi Thanh, 59, is a survivor of a civilian massacre by South Korean troops during the Vietnam War. When she was seven years old, she lost her family members and suffered a bullet wound to her left side when South Korean soldiers indiscriminately slaughtered civilians in the village of Phong Nhi/Phong Nhat in Vietnam’s Quang Nam Province. Seventy-four villagers were killed on that day alone. South Korea sent 312,000 troops to Vietnam between September 1964 and 1972 –during which around 80 massacres of Vietnamese civilians were committed, with a total estimated death toll as high as 9,000.

On Apr. 4 of this year, Nguyen and 102 other victims submitted a petition to the South Korean government demanding an investigation into the massacres, a formal apology for the civilian losses, and recovery measures for the damages. Their claim was that Seoul “continues not to acknowledge the truth of the civilian massacres during the Vietnam War despite numerous opportunities, and has not taken any measures to apologize or restoring the victims’ honor.” It marks the first time Vietnamese survivors of civilian massacres during the war have petitioned a South Korean state institution.






Nguyen Thi Thanh, a civilian massacre survivor from the Vietnam War, recalls how South Korean troops slaughtered her family and home village at the National Assembly in Seoul on Apr. 6, 2015. (Kim Gyoung-ho, staff photographer)


On Sept. 9, the Ministry of National Defense (MND) gave a belated response to the petition – long after the 90-day official response deadline had elapsed. It claimed that no information regarding civilian massacres by South Korean troops had been found in any of its documents, and said that while a joint investigation with Vietnamese authorities would have to come ahead of an independent investigation by South Korea, the “conditions had not yet been formed” for a joint investigation by the South Korean and Vietnamese governments.

Civic and social groups objected to what amounted – despite its decorous language – to an official rejection by Seoul of victims’ demand to know why South Korean troops had shot them and massacred their family members. Sixty groups, including the Korea-Vietnam Peace Foundation and Citizen Association for Thinking about Vietnam and Korea, held a press conference in front of the MND complex in Seoul’s Yongsan District on the morning of Sept. 26, urging the government to take a more active stance in resolving historical issues.

The members identified two main problems with the MND’s response. First, noting that the civilian massacres during the war had aspects of war crimes, they argued that large-scale war times were “very unlikely” to have been indicated directly in the South Korean military’s combat records. Their position is that the ministry’s claim not to have found evidence of the massacres in an examination of its official documents showed an utter lack of understanding of the nature of war crimes by the state. They also said the MND could not be trusted in its reply about there being “no related records” when the National Intelligence Service (NIS) has declined to disclose even a list of investigation documents on the Vietnam War civilian massacres for the past three years, despite a court ruling. They claimed that ahead of a joint investment with Vietnamese authorities, the South Korean government could easily conduct a primary investigation using documents in its own possession and the US’.






Corporal J. Vaughn of Delta-2 Platoon, US Marines, who documented the civilian massacre of Phong Nhi during the Vietnam War on Feb. 12, 1968. (Hankyoreh archives)


The groups also urged Seoul to comply with the principle of a victim-centered resolution. “Why is it that the same victim-centered approach adopted in demanding that Japan assume responsibility for illegal actions during colonization is only regarded as secondary when it comes to Vietnamese victimized by South Korean troops during the Vietnam War?” they asked. They went on to demand that Seoul at least set up an official investigation body with participating civilian experts for the incidents outlined by the 103 petitioners and, if the findings show a strong probability of legal violations by South Korean forces, to adopt measures to restore the victims’ honor, including an official apology and memorial projects for the affected regions.


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## Viet

The upgraded T54M tanks possess TIFCS-3BU fire control system and very solid explosive reactive armor. The latter is capable of resisting anti-tank shells fired from a distance of 100 meters and infantry guns fired at a range of 200-300 m.

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## Viet

*South China Sea: Fear of total war surge as Vietnamese Foreign Minister warns Beijing*
_





Vietnam's Foreign Minister has delivered a thinly veiled dig at China at the UN (Image: GETTY)
*THE VIETNAMESE foreign minister Pham Binh Minh has warned against actions which could raise tensions over the hotly disputed South China Sea.*
By GURSIMRAN HANS
PUBLISHED: 02:58, Sun, _


Mr Pham’s comments are likely to be considered a direct warning to China. Beijing and Hanoi have disputes over the Spratly Islands, also claimed by The Philippines and Taiwan and the Parcacel Islands, also claimed by Taipei. Mr Pham, also Deputy Prime Minister said at the UN General Assembly: “Vietnam has on many occasions voiced its concerns over the recent complicated developments in the South China Sea, including serious incidents that infringed upon Vietnam’s sovereignty.

“Relevant states should exercise restraint and refrain from conducting unilateral acts, which might complicate or escalate tensions at sea, and settle disputes by peaceful means.”

Beijing has sent coastguard vessels to an energy block operated by Russia’s Rosnet Oil PJSC near Vietnamese shores.

The US has accused China of intimidating other claimants from developing resources in the disputed waters.

China has responded by accusing Washington of attempting sow discontent with other nations.






A Vietnamese fishing vessel and Chinese naval ships in the disputed sea (Image: GETTY)


In a previous statement, Hanoi’s Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang said: “Vietnam welcomes and is willing to join other nations and the international community” in order to maintain peace, stability and security.

The Vietnamese word for the South China Sea translates as East Sea.

One-third of international shipping passes throughout.

READ MORE: China unveil amphibious warship as South China Sea disputes go on


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## Nilgiri

Viets, toughest in history lol:






@Viet @Viva_Viet @cochine @Carlosa @xiao qi @Aqsuperman

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## Viet

Model of a supply ship 






In a repair shop

Su27 fighter jet






Firing Kh35 antiship missile from Molynia warship

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## congtubl

DSE VIETNAM 2019




















https://soha.vn/khai-mac-trien-lam-...9-quy-mo-lon-chua-tung-co-201910021216243.htm

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## Viet

North Korea makes quick progress. I wonder when we can make submarine launched ballistic missiles?


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## Galactic Penguin SST

At first all these smoking guns..


*Germs anti-Islam law (i.e. anti burka), applied to HKer!!!*







17 Aug 2019


The Germany Police asked one Hongkonger to take off his mask when Hongkongers rally in support of Hongkong protest. Usually Hongkong protesters all wear black mask in Hongkong.



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162920649674805248

https://twitter.com/Liam_Stone18/status/1162920649674805248

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hong...-news-discussion.623438/page-29#post-11710134​


And finally, after a feigned four months of "weakness" and "leniency", the Empire (read: *Skynet aka The MATRIX*) drops the mask literally, sort of speak! 

What was suspected from day one as the ulterior motive of the Empire is now confirmed.


*MTR stations and bank vandalised as protesters rage against Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam's anti-mask law*

4 Oct, 2019

Hong Kong’s embattled government has announced plans to ban people from wearing masks at public assemblies, as it struggles to control the increasingly violent civil unrest gripping the city.

Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor’s administration, under mounting pressure from its political allies to put a stop to nearly four months of anti-government protests, imposed the ban on Friday through legislation by invoking a tough, colonial-era emergency law that has not been used in more than half a century.

Lam says she did not seek approval from Beijing to implement the law during her recent trip for the National Day celebrations and says legislation is a step towards resolving the situation and restoring stability to Hong Kong.






https://archive.fo/zHH43/6096a5a0a710369676c1ec34cab8b85bc9701e68.jpg ; https://archive.fo/zHH43/a5266c7b232c5d1ad6c1abf890d8ce03031d0d9b/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...c/d8/images/2019/10/04/image_from_ios_167.jpg 
▲ 1. Hong Kong braindead ziombie shills in action, in "criminalizing" the civilian facial mask!


https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...er-carrie-lam-announce-introduction-anti-mask​
Indeed, isolated events might be misleading and often meaningless, while the larger global picture over several decades, covering five continents is indisputable.

In this case, the latest Hong Kong development only echoes what has already been craftily implemented as clumsy tricks in the West and even mainland China!





CHN Bamboo said:


> You must have been hurt by Muslims.
> 
> Have Muslim ever forced you to buy their Qie Gao(切糕) at a high price?
> 
> 不要说这些会让穆斯林发怒的话。没人希望自己的信仰被怀疑或者剥夺。



This 切糕 (Qiegao) conspiracy is at the core of all current developments in Xinjiang. Note that it used to be called 新疆骗子 in the past.

By searching the words "新疆切糕骗子"(Xinjiang Qiegao scammers) with google or youtube, once again, we see that the West's disinformation machine is enforcing a totalitarian blackout on this topics, in its ongoing proxy-war waged on China.

Meanwhile, searching in mandarin gives therefore a more better idea, such as baidu search:

*Typical result:*

•新疆切糕是如何骗人的 How does Xinjiang Qiegao deceive people?
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/423891786692329932.html

•为什么新疆人骗人得不到公正的审判？？？他们卖切糕就是不对。 Why do Xinjiang criminals that deceive people can escape a fair trial? ? ? This scam is not right.
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/506906932.html?qbl=relate_question_2


*Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
女子买切糕，发现被骗后要走，被卖方拦下无奈服从 The woman bought the Qiegao and found that she was going to be deceived but was stopped by the seller.
https://v.qq.com/x/page/v0367ht31hs.html​And indeed, for more than two decades, this has been allowed. Most often, the cheated customer ended up beaten by gangs of these professional scammers.

But when security personel at the entrance of long distance bus station for instance, seem to enjoy the beating instead of intervening, then one has the proof that it was from day one a well prepared and executed conspiracy.

*Procedure of the conspiracy*

To conduct nation wide, even in smaller towns, this violent scam, in order to antagonize the ethnic Uyghurs from all the other ethnic groups of China.

Conducted by small group of ethnic Uyghur male, up to ten.

Immunity from prosecution is assured by the authority.

*Objective of the conspiracy*

After one generation, it is expected that all Chinese of age 20 and above will have grown a genuine hostile feeling for ALL Uyghurs, and beyond, for all Muslems.

Without any sympathy left from the rest of the some 50 Chinese ethic groups, *a ban on burka is made possible * on the isolated Xinjiang ethnic Uyghurs!

*Conclusion*

This only echoes the conspiracy in Europe. For two decades, Muslems were singled-out for praying in the streets, or wearing hijab, or refusing to shake hands, or refusing to go to the swimming pools with there fellow schoolmates, or eating halal -refusing pork- at the canteen, or building minarets.

But, also, once marginalized, the delinquent teenagers would only be punished with a lenient sentence.

*Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
Ultraviolent aggression of an Asian Indochinese (L’agression ultraviolente d’une Asiatique résolue grâce à la vidéosurveillance)
http://www.leparisien.fr/val-de-mar...a-la-videosurveillance-18-07-2019-8119500.php​Today we know that all these "bad seeds", have in fact craftily been engineered en masse to form the backbone of the West's proxy armies as "ISIS" in their proxy-war waged on Libya, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yaman and Iran!

And as these were supposed to die in the Middle East while carrying out the grand strategy of their European puppet masters, therefore the absolute interdiction for them to return to live in the West!

*And the ban on burka is now unopposed in the West!*








https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...c-in-here-please.621888/page-93#post-11661804​
Here the goal again clearly stated by the Empire's mouthpiece in implementing its frantic and reckless 24/7/365 ALL-CCTV 5G/6G Teraherz Big Brother Dystopian Totalitarian Orwellian Surveillance of all the world's masses, at the Ground level, complementing its already built multi-layered space, near space and airborne infrastructures:


I hope all CCTV cameras in Hong Kong are working well.

*All these Loser rioters caught by the CCTV camera

will have ZERO future*.

They all will be tracked by *Big Data AI*
* *using their unique face and unique physical gait*.

All these Loser rioters have better start committing mass suicides and
burn themselves up to dust

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hong...-news-discussion.623438/page-36#post-11785808​

If this thesis is true, then the prospect for the less industrialized nations seems bleak indeed.

One might expect that the next to be targeted in a row would be...Indochina!

See for yourself and decide!





https://archive.is/mB5g7/41692abe356340575436edd7b8f3c8d3d0354fef.jpg ; https://archive.is/mB5g7/96badde29962965e62d47c37f3621e7f787cddb8/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004125826/https://i.imgur.com/HDx8YBg.jpg 
▲ 2. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!





https://archive.fo/IOHz2/42d025df4518d2248e33a52e1b8938e931bef819.JPG ; https://archive.fo/IOHz2/b0147a6cf78f152d5b2ab82bda09f5543cc8af50/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...db/resize/2019/0221/155064981763_20190221.JPG 
▲ 3. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!





https://archive.fo/lHT33/c21ae0d6bd7c7ee1a9ea8676f3c26c4874e78c6c.jpg ; https://archive.fo/lHT33/e3274b1e4edb78af8238aaa6d6f60f5081efe84d/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...e.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/image.jpg 
▲ 4. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!






https://archive.fo/yPik5/6cb8013c21222d35bf64b357201eff53e083d6e5.jpeg ; https://archive.fo/yPik5/f77c9d7a91e254cacdf4e350acc1ed7766fbffb5/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...ia:7120309ccd44429090c0479535164c62/1000.jpeg 
▲ 5. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!


----------



## Viet

Galactic Penguin SST said:


> At first all these smoking guns..
> 
> 
> *Germs anti-Islam law (i.e. anti burka), applied to HKer!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 17 Aug 2019
> 
> 
> The Germany Police asked one Hongkonger to take off his mask when Hongkongers rally in support of Hongkong protest. Usually Hongkong protesters all wear black mask in Hongkong.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162920649674805248
> 
> https://twitter.com/Liam_Stone18/status/1162920649674805248
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hong...-news-discussion.623438/page-29#post-11710134​
> 
> 
> And finally, after a feigned four months of "weakness" and "leniency", the Empire (read: *Skynet aka The MATRIX*) drops the mask literally, sort of speak!
> 
> What was suspected from day one as the ulterior motive of the Empire is now confirmed.
> 
> 
> *MTR stations and bank vandalised as protesters rage against Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam's anti-mask law*
> 
> 4 Oct, 2019
> 
> Hong Kong’s embattled government has announced plans to ban people from wearing masks at public assemblies, as it struggles to control the increasingly violent civil unrest gripping the city.
> 
> Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor’s administration, under mounting pressure from its political allies to put a stop to nearly four months of anti-government protests, imposed the ban on Friday through legislation by invoking a tough, colonial-era emergency law that has not been used in more than half a century.
> 
> Lam says she did not seek approval from Beijing to implement the law during her recent trip for the National Day celebrations and says legislation is a step towards resolving the situation and restoring stability to Hong Kong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.fo/zHH43/6096a5a0a710369676c1ec34cab8b85bc9701e68.jpg ; https://archive.fo/zHH43/a5266c7b232c5d1ad6c1abf890d8ce03031d0d9b/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...c/d8/images/2019/10/04/image_from_ios_167.jpg
> ▲ 1. Hong Kong braindead ziombie shills in action, in "criminalizing" the civilian facial mask!
> 
> 
> https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...er-carrie-lam-announce-introduction-anti-mask​
> Indeed, isolated events might be misleading and often meaningless, while the larger global picture over several decades, covering five continents is indisputable.
> 
> In this case, the latest Hong Kong development only echoes what has already been craftily implemented as clumsy tricks in the West and even mainland China!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This 切糕 (Qiegao) conspiracy is at the core of all current developments in Xinjiang. Note that it used to be called 新疆骗子 in the past.
> 
> By searching the words "新疆切糕骗子"(Xinjiang Qiegao scammers) with google or youtube, once again, we see that the West's disinformation machine is enforcing a totalitarian blackout on this topics, in its ongoing proxy-war waged on China.
> 
> Meanwhile, searching in mandarin gives therefore a more better idea, such as baidu search:
> 
> *Typical result:*
> 
> •新疆切糕是如何骗人的 How does Xinjiang Qiegao deceive people?
> https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/423891786692329932.html
> 
> •为什么新疆人骗人得不到公正的审判？？？他们卖切糕就是不对。 Why do Xinjiang criminals that deceive people can escape a fair trial? ? ? This scam is not right.
> https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/506906932.html?qbl=relate_question_2
> 
> 
> *Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
> 女子买切糕，发现被骗后要走，被卖方拦下无奈服从 The woman bought the Qiegao and found that she was going to be deceived but was stopped by the seller.
> https://v.qq.com/x/page/v0367ht31hs.html​And indeed, for more than two decades, this has been allowed. Most often, the cheated customer ended up beaten by gangs of these professional scammers.
> 
> But when security personel at the entrance of long distance bus station for instance, seem to enjoy the beating instead of intervening, then one has the proof that it was from day one a well prepared and executed conspiracy.
> 
> *Procedure of the conspiracy*
> 
> To conduct nation wide, even in smaller towns, this violent scam, in order to antagonize the ethnic Uyghurs from all the other ethnic groups of China.
> 
> Conducted by small group of ethnic Uyghur male, up to ten.
> 
> Immunity from prosecution is assured by the authority.
> 
> *Objective of the conspiracy*
> 
> After one generation, it is expected that all Chinese of age 20 and above will have grown a genuine hostile feeling for ALL Uyghurs, and beyond, for all Muslems.
> 
> Without any sympathy left from the rest of the some 50 Chinese ethic groups, *a ban on burka is made possible * on the isolated Xinjiang ethnic Uyghurs!
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> This only echoes the conspiracy in Europe. For two decades, Muslems were singled-out for praying in the streets, or wearing hijab, or refusing to shake hands, or refusing to go to the swimming pools with there fellow schoolmates, or eating halal -refusing pork- at the canteen, or building minarets.
> 
> But, also, once marginalized, the delinquent teenagers would only be punished with a lenient sentence.
> 
> *Soft video -without violent gory ending-*
> Ultraviolent aggression of an Asian Indochinese (L’agression ultraviolente d’une Asiatique résolue grâce à la vidéosurveillance)
> http://www.leparisien.fr/val-de-mar...a-la-videosurveillance-18-07-2019-8119500.php​Today we know that all these "bad seeds", have in fact craftily been engineered en masse to form the backbone of the West's proxy armies as "ISIS" in their proxy-war waged on Libya, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yaman and Iran!
> 
> And as these were supposed to die in the Middle East while carrying out the grand strategy of their European puppet masters, therefore the absolute interdiction for them to return to live in the West!
> 
> *And the ban on burka is now unopposed in the West!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/all-...c-in-here-please.621888/page-93#post-11661804​Here the goal again clearly stated by the Empire's mouthpiece in implementing its frantic and reckless 24/7/365 ALL-CCTV 5G/6G Teraherz Big Brother Dystopian Totalitarian Orwellian Surveillance of all the world's masses, at the Ground level, complementing its already built multi-layered space, near space and airborne infrastructures:
> 
> 
> I hope all CCTV cameras in Hong Kong are working well.
> 
> *All these Loser rioters caught by the CCTV camera
> 
> will have ZERO future*.
> 
> They all will be tracked by *Big Data AI*
> * *using their unique face and unique physical gait*.
> 
> All these Loser rioters have better start committing mass suicides and
> burn themselves up to dust
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hong...-news-discussion.623438/page-36#post-11785808​
> 
> If this thesis is true, then the prospect for the less industrialized nations seems bleak indeed.
> 
> One might expect that the next to be targeted in a row would be...Indochina!
> 
> See for yourself and decide!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.is/mB5g7/41692abe356340575436edd7b8f3c8d3d0354fef.jpg ; https://archive.is/mB5g7/96badde29962965e62d47c37f3621e7f787cddb8/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004125826/https://i.imgur.com/HDx8YBg.jpg
> ▲ 2. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.fo/IOHz2/42d025df4518d2248e33a52e1b8938e931bef819.JPG ; https://archive.fo/IOHz2/b0147a6cf78f152d5b2ab82bda09f5543cc8af50/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...db/resize/2019/0221/155064981763_20190221.JPG
> ▲ 3. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.fo/lHT33/c21ae0d6bd7c7ee1a9ea8676f3c26c4874e78c6c.jpg ; https://archive.fo/lHT33/e3274b1e4edb78af8238aaa6d6f60f5081efe84d/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...e.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/image.jpg
> ▲ 4. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.fo/yPik5/6cb8013c21222d35bf64b357201eff53e083d6e5.jpeg ; https://archive.fo/yPik5/f77c9d7a91e254cacdf4e350acc1ed7766fbffb5/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191004...ia:7120309ccd44429090c0479535164c62/1000.jpeg
> ▲ 5. The last generation of Indochinese to wear facial mask, before its expected ban!


You are off topic!

Pls don’t post garbage!


----------



## Viet

Make old to new







Hình ảnh hiếm hoi về biến thể nâng cấp xe thiết giáp M113 (khoanh đỏ) đang được Quân đội Nhân dân Việt Nam thực hiện. Ảnh: Binh chủng Tăng Thiết giáp.







Hình ảnh hiếm hoi về biến thể M113 nâng cấp của Việt Nam. Ảnh: Binh chủng Tăng Thiết giáp.







Tổ hợp súng phòng không 12,7 mm điều khiển từ xa do Viện Vũ khí - Tổng cục Công nghiệp quốc phòng chế tạo. Ảnh: QPVN


----------



## Viet

Interesting stuffs

Russia military industry shows military hardware on DSE Vietnam 2019 in Hanoi.

*Rubezh-ME*
Land based antiship missile system


----------



## Viet

Military doctors in training with standard weapons: K59 pistols and AK rifles

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## congtubl




----------



## Galactic Penguin SST

Viet said:


> You are off topic!
> 
> Pls don’t post garbage!




Facial recognition AI is not off topic. Vietnam is currently a non-compliant nation due to the extensive use of facial masks. As an ASEAN member, anti-facial mask legislation will follow soon accordingly.

Moreover, Vietnam is selfie addicted. This is what the official european state television France 2 has presented on 10 October 2019 in its program "Envoyé spécial" as the first step toward a *numerical totalitarian state*!

http://web.archive.org/web/20191011...special-du-jeudi-10-octobre-2019_3640797.html
http://archive.fo/o50Cr

Below is only another illustration of the level of informations that CCTVs and selfie can contain, and that are feeding the Skynet sentient Global World AI:

*Obsessed fan finds Japanese idol's home by zooming in on her eyes*

Oct 09, 2019

Did you know that high-resolution phone cameras can expose more than just pimples and pores? You might be revealing your location to internet predators without even realising it.

Japanese idol Ena Matsuoka was attacked outside her home last month after a fan figured out her address from selfies she posted on social media — just by zooming in on the reflection on her pupils, according to media reports.

The fan, Hibiki Sato, 26, managed to identify a bus stop and the surrounding scenery from the reflection on Matsuoka's eyes and matched them to a street using Google Maps.

Sato had even approximated the storey Matsuoka lived on based on the windows and the angle of the sunlight in her eyes.

Matsuoka, 21, a member of the J-pop group Tenshitsukinukeniyomi (天使突抜ニ読ミ), was attacked outside her home in Tokyo on Sept 1 by Sato, who had been waiting at a bus stop.

She had just reached her door when Sato approached her from behind, covering her mouth with a piece of cloth.

He dragged her to a dark corner and molested her, injuring her face in the struggle.

Sato admitted to the attack after he was arrested on Sept 17 and revealed that he was a huge fan of Matsuoka.

Fans of J-pop groups have called for better protection of female idols after several high-profile stalking and assault cases in recent years.

Maho Yamaguchi, ex-member of pop group NGT48, spoke out in January about an alleged assault in which two men entered her home and tackled her.

Japan also revised its anti-stalking laws to cover online harassment after singer Mayu Tomita was stabbed dozens of times by a stalker.

Tomita had tried to report her stalker 12 days before the attack, but police dismissed the threat.





https://archive.fo/wYkmU/bbf91701e9506184db981e309e0dd88ebfa36619.jpg ; https://archive.fo/wYkmU/1a3ac5b5ce7eb08f40525fe40ff8b5e258f54641/scr.png ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191011...al_images/Oct2019/091019_stalker_internet.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191011...al_images/Oct2019/091019_stalker_internet.jpg ; http://web.archive.org/web/20191011...an-finds-japanese-idols-home-zooming-her-eyes ; http://archive.fo/Z2MAb 
▲ 1. Geolocation made possible from selfie by zooming in on the reflection on pupils: Ena Matsuoka was geolocated by Hibiki Sato.


http://web.archive.org/web/20191011...an-finds-japanese-idols-home-zooming-her-eyes
http://archive.fo/Z2MAb​


----------



## Nilgiri

@Viet @cochine @Viva_Viet @fadine 

Is this more or less correct translation?:

https://www.sggp.org.vn/pho-chinh-u...GDVx2Rs4TpIxT6gGU6NMapX75D6t3LoCSKbzHPgiVLrm0

In the afternoon of 7-10, responding to the interest of voters in District 7 (Ho Chi Minh City) about the situation of the East Sea and Tu Chinh beach, Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang, Member of the National Assembly, Deputy Political Commissar of Military Region 7 spent about 15 minutes to frankly share a lot of information.

The National Assembly Deputies Group met with voters before the 8th Session of the National Assembly XIV, in addition to Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang, there was also delegate To Thi Bich Chau, Chairman of the Vietnam Fatherland Front Committee of Ho Chi Minh City.

At the meeting, voters in District 7 expressed their interest in the situation of the East Sea, especially at the current Tu Chinh beach, voters want to know the information to take action to show their patriotism properly.

Answering the voters, Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang affirmed that Vietnam has sufficient historical and legal grounds to declare that Tu Chinh beach belongs to Vietnam. According to the 1982 International Convention on the Law of the Sea, coastal states have exclusive economic zones from the baseline out to 200 nautical miles. China is not a sovereign coastal state up to Tu Chinh beach. They are just pretending to be their sovereignty in the Spratlys and Paracel Islands, to calculate 200 nautical miles from these two archipelagos. But this excuse is unreasonable because the Spratlys and Spratlys have never been Chinese.

*According to Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang, the oil plots in Tu Chinh are still under normal exploration. Currently China has more than 40 ships with geological ocean, but the Vietnamese side also brought 50 ships to defend sovereignty.*

*Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang said that if our forces fired first, they would fall into China's vicious conspiracy to launch an invasion of the sea.*

The Major-General shared further that Vietnam and China have a good tradition of diplomatic relations, but because of China's ambition to monopolize the South China Sea, the relationship between the two countries is chipped. Vietnam is struggling with a political and diplomatic path.

“Someone asked if we were willing to sue China, were we willing to fight China or not. These are all possible, but not what we expected, ”Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang said.

*According to the Major General, Vietnam will use all political and diplomatic measures, when it has used all these measures and still cannot preserve its sovereignty, then the lawsuit? will be taken.* But at present, diplomatic measures are still workable, Vietnam has resorted to the level that the Minister of Foreign Affairs opposes to the United Nations and there are still measures at a higher level than the Prime Minister, the President. nationality.

“That means that all political and diplomatic measures must be used, the international will also realize that Vietnam respects peace, Vietnam has dealt with international disputes by diplomatic politics, then spread it out internationally. Vietnam is not in a hurry to do this, "Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang explained.

He further analyzed, Vietnam does not want to fall into the conspiracy of the forces, they want us to confront them to benefit. Heaven was born we were neighbors with China. The problem is how to maintain both state diplomacy and sovereignty at the same time. If a war occurred, the people were miserable, and the side that won, the people suffered, and the economic damage was clearly seen in the countries still in the war.

The representative emphasized that up to now, we are still preserving very well the sovereignty right at sea, especially in Tu Chinh beach. “The party and the state pay special attention to this issue. Voters are assured that when there is a problem, there will be official information to join with the army in protecting the national sovereignty, ”said Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Viet

Vietnam seeks money to fund more patrol vessels amid chinese pressure.








Vietnam T90 tanks


----------



## Viet

Following china repeated provocations in the months, there are signs within top decision making body, Vietnam considers to sue China before international court. The time could come by next year when Vietnam takes over the Asean chairmanship and becomes a non permanent member of UN Security Council. A security alliance with the US would be under consideration.








Generalsekretär und Staatspräsident Vietnams: Nguyen Phu Trong

https://amp.dw.com/de/neuer-streit-im-südchinesischen-meer/a-50793279


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## Viet

Congrats!






_
Vice Adm. Thomas J. Moore, left, administers the oath of office to Rear Adm. Huan T. Nguyen during Nguyen’s promotion ceremony at the U.S. Navy Memorial & Heritage Center, Oct. 10, 2019. Nguyen is the first Vietnamese-American promoted to the ... more >
*Navy promotes Huan Nguyen to be first Vietnamese-American admiral*_

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> Vice Adm. Thomas J. Moore, left, administers the oath of office to Rear Adm. Huan T. Nguyen during Nguyen’s promotion ceremony at the U.S. Navy Memorial & Heritage Center, Oct. 10, 2019. Nguyen is the first Vietnamese-American promoted to the ... more >
> *Navy promotes Huan Nguyen to be first Vietnamese-American admiral*_



Had the pleasure of interacting cpl years ago with Vietnamese origin officer in Canadian Navy too....for his final training on upgrade of system by my company.

He is Lt. Com...will be fast tracked to Captain in the coming years I believe.

With the caliber I see, it means Vietnam navy also has a great future ahead of it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Viet

Too bad, Vietnam is no longer a Kingdom.

At the invitation of Shinzo’s government, Vietnam PM will attend the enthronement ceremony of Emperor Naruhito on 22, October.


----------



## congtubl

Nilgiri said:


> @Viet @cochine @Viva_Viet @fadine
> 
> Is this more or less correct translation?:
> 
> https://www.sggp.org.vn/pho-chinh-u...GDVx2Rs4TpIxT6gGU6NMapX75D6t3LoCSKbzHPgiVLrm0
> 
> In the afternoon of 7-10, responding to the interest of voters in District 7 (Ho Chi Minh City) about the situation of the East Sea and Tu Chinh beach, Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang, Member of the National Assembly, Deputy Political Commissar of Military Region 7 spent about 15 minutes to frankly share a lot of information.
> 
> The National Assembly Deputies Group met with voters before the 8th Session of the National Assembly XIV, in addition to Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang, there was also delegate To Thi Bich Chau, Chairman of the Vietnam Fatherland Front Committee of Ho Chi Minh City.
> 
> At the meeting, voters in District 7 expressed their interest in the situation of the East Sea, especially at the current Tu Chinh beach, voters want to know the information to take action to show their patriotism properly.
> 
> Answering the voters, Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang affirmed that Vietnam has sufficient historical and legal grounds to declare that Tu Chinh beach belongs to Vietnam. According to the 1982 International Convention on the Law of the Sea, coastal states have exclusive economic zones from the baseline out to 200 nautical miles. China is not a sovereign coastal state up to Tu Chinh beach. They are just pretending to be their sovereignty in the Spratlys and Paracel Islands, to calculate 200 nautical miles from these two archipelagos. But this excuse is unreasonable because the Spratlys and Spratlys have never been Chinese.
> 
> *According to Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang, the oil plots in Tu Chinh are still under normal exploration. Currently China has more than 40 ships with geological ocean, but the Vietnamese side also brought 50 ships to defend sovereignty.*
> 
> *Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang said that if our forces fired first, they would fall into China's vicious conspiracy to launch an invasion of the sea.*
> 
> The Major-General shared further that Vietnam and China have a good tradition of diplomatic relations, but because of China's ambition to monopolize the South China Sea, the relationship between the two countries is chipped. Vietnam is struggling with a political and diplomatic path.
> 
> “Someone asked if we were willing to sue China, were we willing to fight China or not. These are all possible, but not what we expected, ”Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang said.
> 
> *According to the Major General, Vietnam will use all political and diplomatic measures, when it has used all these measures and still cannot preserve its sovereignty, then the lawsuit? will be taken.* But at present, diplomatic measures are still workable, Vietnam has resorted to the level that the Minister of Foreign Affairs opposes to the United Nations and there are still measures at a higher level than the Prime Minister, the President. nationality.
> 
> “That means that all political and diplomatic measures must be used, the international will also realize that Vietnam respects peace, Vietnam has dealt with international disputes by diplomatic politics, then spread it out internationally. Vietnam is not in a hurry to do this, "Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang explained.
> 
> He further analyzed, Vietnam does not want to fall into the conspiracy of the forces, they want us to confront them to benefit. Heaven was born we were neighbors with China. The problem is how to maintain both state diplomacy and sovereignty at the same time. If a war occurred, the people were miserable, and the side that won, the people suffered, and the economic damage was clearly seen in the countries still in the war.
> 
> The representative emphasized that up to now, we are still preserving very well the sovereignty right at sea, especially in Tu Chinh beach. “The party and the state pay special attention to this issue. Voters are assured that when there is a problem, there will be official information to join with the army in protecting the national sovereignty, ”said Major General Nguyen Minh Hoang.



Don't worry about that.
Fishman of Vietnamese have catch a new fish.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Viet

@Indos
@Nike

If Vietnam participates the program, the airforce can buy 100 pieces.



50 million USD a yet sounds Ok.








Tại triển lãm quốc phòng ADEX 2019 hiện đang diễn ra ở Hàn Quốc, phái đoàn Việt Nam đã tỏ ra rất quan tâm tới *chiến đấu cơ thế hệ năm* đang được nước bạn phát triển. Nguồn ảnh: Sina.

_





Đây là loại tiêm kích thế hệ năm mang tên KF-X do Hàn Quốc tự nghiên cứu và hoàn thiện. Tuy nhiên phiên bản được trưng bày tại triển lãm chỉ là mô hình với tỷ lệ 1:1 và không thể bay được. Nguồn ảnh: Sina._






KF-X hay còn có tên gọi khác là IA IF-X là loại chiến đấu cơ thế hệ thứ năm, được Hàn Quốc và Indonesia hợp tác nghiên cứu và phát triển từ năm 2010 và tới nay đã hoàn thiện giai đoạn đầu. Nguồn ảnh: Sina.

_





Loại chiến đấu cơ này được hứa hẹn sẽ có khả năng tàng hình ngang với tiêm kích F-35, được Hàn Quốc và Indonesia dự kiến bán với giá 50 triệu USD mỗi chiếc và sẽ bắt đầu được trực chiến từ năm 2025. Nguồn ảnh: Sina.







Có giá dự kiến khoảng 50 triệu USD cho mỗi chiếc, đây hứa hẹn là một dự án cực kỳ tiềm năng. Theo kế hoạch, năm 2021 bản thử nghiệm đầu tiên của tiêm kích KF-X sẽ được ra đời, năm 2022 sẽ bay thử chuyến đầu tiên và tới năm 2032, ít nhất 120 chiếc sẽ được ra đời. Phái đoàn quân sự cấp cao Việt Nam đã quan sát kỹ chiếc tiêm kích đặc biệt trên và được phía bạn giới thiệu chi tiết về tính năng kỹ chiến thuật của chiếc tiêm kích này. Tuy nhiên để tiến tới đặt mua thì vẫn còn một chặng đường dài khi đối thủ của KF-X là Su-57 tỏ ra quá mạnh.Nguồn ảnh: Sina._

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## Nike

Viet said:


> @Indos
> @Nike
> 
> If Vietnam participates the program, the airforce can buy 100 pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> 50 million USD a yet sounds Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tại triển lãm quốc phòng ADEX 2019 hiện đang diễn ra ở Hàn Quốc, phái đoàn Việt Nam đã tỏ ra rất quan tâm tới *chiến đấu cơ thế hệ năm* đang được nước bạn phát triển. Nguồn ảnh: Sina.
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Đây là loại tiêm kích thế hệ năm mang tên KF-X do Hàn Quốc tự nghiên cứu và hoàn thiện. Tuy nhiên phiên bản được trưng bày tại triển lãm chỉ là mô hình với tỷ lệ 1:1 và không thể bay được. Nguồn ảnh: Sina._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KF-X hay còn có tên gọi khác là IA IF-X là loại chiến đấu cơ thế hệ thứ năm, được Hàn Quốc và Indonesia hợp tác nghiên cứu và phát triển từ năm 2010 và tới nay đã hoàn thiện giai đoạn đầu. Nguồn ảnh: Sina.
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loại chiến đấu cơ này được hứa hẹn sẽ có khả năng tàng hình ngang với tiêm kích F-35, được Hàn Quốc và Indonesia dự kiến bán với giá 50 triệu USD mỗi chiếc và sẽ bắt đầu được trực chiến từ năm 2025. Nguồn ảnh: Sina.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Có giá dự kiến khoảng 50 triệu USD cho mỗi chiếc, đây hứa hẹn là một dự án cực kỳ tiềm năng. Theo kế hoạch, năm 2021 bản thử nghiệm đầu tiên của tiêm kích KF-X sẽ được ra đời, năm 2022 sẽ bay thử chuyến đầu tiên và tới năm 2032, ít nhất 120 chiếc sẽ được ra đời. Phái đoàn quân sự cấp cao Việt Nam đã quan sát kỹ chiếc tiêm kích đặc biệt trên và được phía bạn giới thiệu chi tiết về tính năng kỹ chiến thuật của chiếc tiêm kích này. Tuy nhiên để tiến tới đặt mua thì vẫn còn một chặng đường dài khi đối thủ của KF-X là Su-57 tỏ ra quá mạnh.Nguồn ảnh: Sina._



50 million? From where your sources? Dont make hoax


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## Viet

Nike said:


> 50 million? From where your sources? Dont make hoax


The sum is mentioned in the article!


_Có giá dự kiến khoảng 50 triệu USD cho mỗi chiếc._


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## Nike

Viet said:


> The sum is mentioned in the article!
> 
> 
> _Có giá dự kiến khoảng 50 triệu USD cho mỗi chiếc._



LoL even The first prototype still not finished, your media already talking the final prices. In Korea or Indonesia we are not talking about the prices, but research funding.


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## Viet

Nike said:


> LoL even The first prototype still not finished, your media already talking the final prices. In Korea or Indonesia we are not talking about the prices, but research funding.


That’s estimated price, sis, certainly probably not the final price when delivering to customers. Consider this: the more jets are produced the lower the price. See F35. Vietnam participation makes sense.


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## Indos

Viet said:


> @Indos
> @Nike
> 
> 
> If Vietnam could participate the program, the airforce would buy 100 pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> 50 million USD a yet sounds Ok.



Glad to see Vietnam showing interest on the plane. I guess you only have two option to challenge Chinese J 20, whether you choose Su 57 or KFX (if the program is success). South Korea is indeed looking another partner as Indonesia seems to decrease its financial contribution. Let's wait for another one to two month to see what is the result of KFX renegotiation.

50 million USD is a price set up during early development of KFX.

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## Viet

Indos said:


> Glad to see Vietnam showing interest on the plane. I guess you only have two option to challenge Chinese J 20, whether you choose Su 57 or KFX (if the program is success). South Korea is indeed looking another partner as Indonesia seems to decrease its financial contribution. Let's wait for another one to two month to see what is the result of KFX renegotiation.
> 
> 50 million USD is a price set up during early development of KFX.


I am for more industrial cooperations in close neighborhoods, with Japan, Korea and certainly Indonesia.
The Koreans have engine parts factories in Vietnam so they can have the parts to be produced en masse. Cheaper. Faster.

Hanwha engine
They make aircraft parts including for fighter jets.






Or
the US engine parts maker Alloy Corps
They make parts for Boeing, Rolls Royce.
















Universal Alloy Corporation (Da Nang)

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## Viet

Vietnam signs a contract for a $180 million earth observation satellite.
the sat will be built by Japanese satellite manufacturer NEC and Sumitomo Corp. 

Good: it can keep tracks of all activities in the SC sea.









https://spacewatch.global/2019/10/v...-lotusat-1-from-japans-nec-and-sumitomo-corp/

interesting:
Vietnam plans at least two ASNARO satellites and other series of low cost satellites. Japan appears to be willing to transfer the technology so we can make them at low costs.


----------



## Viet

*India will stand firm on oil and gas cooperation with Vietnam: experts*
By *Viet Anh*


https://ampe.vnexpress.net/news/new...cooperation-with-vietnam-experts-4001256.html





Indian Navy soldiers stand ready as their ship approaches Da Nang in central Vietnam for an official visit, May 2018. Photo by VnExpress/Nguyen Dong


India will not reconsider its oil and gas cooperation with Vietnam, said Geeta Kochhar, faculty member of the Center for Chinese and Southeast Asian Studies at the Jawaharlal Nehru University.

Kochhar made the judgment in the context of Chinas illegal oil and gas activities in the East Sea, internationally known as the South China Sea, including the deployment of Chinese oil survey vessel Haiyang Dizhi 8 and its escorts to Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf.

"If China really wants to be assertive of not letting India cooperate with Vietnam, I do not think India would accept that and they should not accept that," Kochhar said Tuesday on the sidelines of a conference on Indias relations with neighboring countries held Tuesday in Hanoi by the Vietnam Institute of Indian and Southwest Asian Studies (VIISAS).

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is determined on "not accepting any kind of domination or control by any powers in the region," she said.

She added that the competition in oil and gas cooperation should not be converted into any kind of confrontation, and it is not fair if China has some objections to India’s cooperation with Vietnam because China itself also cooperates with Vietnam and other countries, such as Nepal.

Explaining the consistent policy of India in cooperating with Vietnam, Associate Professor Doctor Om Prakash Dahiya from the Department of Political Science, Zakir Husain Delhi College, University of Delhi, said "Vietnam plays a pivotal role in India’s Look East policy," given its strategic location in the South China Sea.

New Delhi has cooperated with Hanoi in offshore oil exploration in the waters of the South China Sea since 1988 and Indias attention in cooperating with Vietnam in the sea is not merely economic, but for military and security interests as well, said Tien-sze Fang, Associate Professor at the Center for General Education and Deputy Director of the Center for India Studies, National Tsing Hua University, Taiwan.

He said it is imperative for India to call for freedom of navigation in the region as around 40 percent of its global trade passes through the South China Sea.

"Chinas militarization of the South China Sea is widely seen as a major roadblock to the open and free Indo-Pacific region and will result in significant changes to the 29 sea lanes of communications passing through the region, trillions of dollars of trade passage, potential energy or fishery resources," Fang said.

In addition to economic concerns, what worries India much more is the geopolitical competition.

If, for Beijing, the Indian Ocean is not an Indias ocean, New Delhis imperative is to contest impressions that the South China Sea is not waters that fall under Chinas control. "Additionally, the South China Sea is the gateway to the Pacific region and the center of the Indo-Pacific region," he added.

Both Fang and Dahiya mentioned the fact that China has more than once requested India and Vietnam to stop their oil and gas cooperation, but it has failed to cut the bonds between the two countries.

Back in 2014, during her visit to Vietnam, Indian External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj said state-owned OVL (ONGC Videsh Limited) would continue its oil exploration and exploitation in accordance with cooperation agreements that India has inked with Vietnam.

The move came after China opposed to the operation of OVL in the East Sea.

On August 2, Indian External Affairs Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar confirmed that India would like to continue its oil and gas cooperation with Vietnam in the sea in a meeting with his Vietnamese counterpart Pham Binh Minh in Bangkok.

Commenting on the current East Sea situation, Indian Ambassador to Vietnam, Pranay Verma, said New Delhi was seeking to build international connections for peace, stability and prosperity with its neighboring and nearby countries.

"As India strives to become a five trillion-dollar economy in the next five years, it is creating capabilities and demands that present unique opportunities for all of its partners, particularly its neighbors, to build mutually reinforcing stakes for shared prosperity and development," he said.

He also said India has had greater awareness on its due role in the regional and global order, and its willingness to play that role, to be a contributor of ideas and capabilities in the international arena, and to embrace globalism and internationalism at a time when national instincts are increasingly turning inwards.

Vietnam and India established diplomatic relations in 1972.

India, a staunch ally in Vietnams fight for independence and reunification, is also one of Vietnams top trading partners, with two-way trade turnover reaching $10.69 billion last year, double that of 2016, according to the Vietnam Trade Affairs Office in India.


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## initial_d

Viet said:


> That’s estimated price, sis, certainly probably not the final price when delivering to customers. Consider this: the more jets are produced the lower the price. See F35. Vietnam participation makes sense.


why not buy indonesian shares in kfx, its a win win solution, we need to let go of the project and vietnam wanting to have share in the project, for me KFX/IFX project are not benefiting indonesia, with only 20% shares but have to buy 50-80 plane, we only get to produce wings and tail component, soooo litle "transfer of technology" for us indonesia and with south korea buying 120 plane the production line only for 10 year before it is closed, For me it is more beneficial for indonesia to purchase far more advance F-35 than KFX with similar price range, who knows if we smart and can lobby the american, we could fit in to replace the turkey share in F-35 and can produce parts for F-35, F-35 will replace not just F-16, but also F-18, F-15 and Harrier, thats mean there are order for 6000-7000 F-35 in 40 years span, a very very good business for indonesia if we can replace turkey in F-35 project


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## Viet

initial_d said:


> why not buy indonesian shares in kfx, its a win win solution, we need to let go of the project and vietnam wanting to have share in the project, for me KFX/IFX project are not benefiting indonesia, with only 20% shares but have to buy 50-80 plane, we only get to produce wings and tail component, soooo litle "transfer of technology" for us indonesia and with south korea buying 120 plane the production line only for 10 year before it is closed, For me it is more beneficial for indonesia to purchase far more advance F-35 than KFX with similar price range, who knows if we smart and can lobby the american, we could fit in to replace the turkey share in F-35 and can produce parts for F-35, F-35 will replace not just F-16, but also F-18, F-15 and Harrier, thats mean there are order for 6000-7000 F-35 in 40 years span, a very very good business for indonesia if we can replace turkey in F-35 project


I think it’s worth Vietnam takes the share if Korea/Indonesia agree and let Vietnam to participate. I read Indonesia wants - in fact - to reduce the fundings to the Kfx program. Probably, I don’t certainly know, you have either financial constraints or doubts on the program or both.

Why not. Vietnam would gain technology that would never become available.

I think the key question is not the money required for the program but whether or not the US would allow Vietnam to participate and allow transfer of technology. The latter is required to make the plane to a affordable level. There are still great resistance in the US Congress that hinders any worthy arms sales to a communist country.

If you take the F35 share of the Turkey, well, that will be a big win for Indonesia. The benefits will be certainly bigger than in the Kfx. Which will be just an inferior version of F35.


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## Viet

@Nike 

google earth Bay of Camranh

I only see 4 Kilo at the Bay! so 2 on patrol obviously.

not what you claimed, all 6 are in the Bay because we haven´t money to buy fuels which sounds redicolous.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> @Nike
> 
> google earth Bay of Camranh
> 
> I only see 4 Kilo at the Bay! so 2 on patrol obviously.
> 
> not what you claimed, all 6 are in the Bay because we haven´t money to buy fuels which sounds redicolous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 586279
> 
> 
> View attachment 586280



Lol, you can assume them to patrol around cham ran bay


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## Viet

sniper rilfe "WKW Wilk"

weight 16,1 kg, length 1.350 mm, barrel 880 mm, 12,7 x 99 mm standard NATO rounds, range 3,000 m















new Made-in-Vietnam anti stealth radar, based on Belarus Vostok-E RV-01, RV-02 radar














modified version GTAR-21 rifle especially made for the Marines

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## Viet

40 years ago,

3 warships of Italy “Andrea Doria“ „Vittorio Veneto“ and „Stromboli“ left the Port by Juli 1979 heading to the western Pacific. Their mission: rescuing the vietnamese “boat people” in the SC sea. Italy was the only country in the world, that officially came to the rescue. 900 Vietnamese were brought to Italy.

thank you Italy!






Auch Deutschland nahm vor 40 Jahren „Boatpeople“ auf. Italien setzte die eigene Marine zur Rettung ein (dpa / Werner Schilling)


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## Aqsuperman

VPN North Korean-made Sang-O submarine and I-SILC semi-submersible infiltration craft going through maintenance

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## sahureka2

I vietnamiti hanno installato missili anti-nave KCT 15 di produzione nazionale, ma derivati dal russo Kh-35 Uran, sulla corvetta di classe Pohang (ex RCC 765 _Yeosu_) ricevuto alla fine del 2018 come aiuto militare dalla Marina sudcoreana.

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## congtubl

Pohang 18 test balance with KCT-15 or VCM-01

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## Viet

The army should be prepared for war, so the _PLA Daily _in its New Year’s post 2019.
the year end 2019 is approaching, must we occupy bunkers along the border? Nobody knows when they run amok.

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/mil...riorities-2019-boost-training-and-prepare-war










Military


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## Viet

Two BRDM-2 armored verhicles 

Interesting with mounted machine gun


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## Viet

Vietnam can make a domestic made armor piercing Rpg29, called Sct29.

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## Barmaley

New Kamaz 6x6 trucks for Vietnam





https://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/qu...-nhan-loat-ngua-tho-sieu-khoe-tu-nga-3391108/

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## Viet

Barmaley said:


> New Kamaz 6x6 trucks for Vietnam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://baodatviet.vn/quoc-phong/qu...-nhan-loat-ngua-tho-sieu-khoe-tu-nga-3391108/


Why not Kamaz 8x8?
We can build beautiful Gun trucks


----------



## Viet

Chinese vessel Haiyang Dizhi 8, along with 30-40 accompanying vessels, withdrew from Vietnam EEZ waters, ending 3 month standoff.
Chinese wanted to sabotage Viet Nam oil exploration.
Rediculous!


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## congtubl

Pacific Reach 2019 at Australia rescue submarrine











Vietnamese Recuse Submarine, the same version


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## Beast

Viet said:


> Chinese vessel Haiyang Dizhi 8, along with 30-40 accompanying vessels, withdrew from Vietnam EEZ waters, ending 3 month standoff.
> Chinese wanted to sabotage Viet Nam oil exploration.
> Rediculous!


https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ai...3/mmsi:370718000/imo:8751617/vessel:HAKURYU_5

Lol.. why your hakuryu-5 is at Ho chin Minh sea area and not at SCS?

Typical selective posting. Vietnam is not allow any new drilling in China nine dash line. 

Vietnam is not going to match our navy attribution tactics. Even USS Ronald reegan got chased out of SCS and what makes you think Vietnam stand better chance?


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## congtubl

Beast said:


> https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ai...3/mmsi:370718000/imo:8751617/vessel:HAKURYU_5
> 
> Lol.. why your hakuryu-5 is at Ho chin Minh sea area and not at SCS?
> 
> Typical selective posting. Vietnam is not allow any new drilling in China nine dash line.
> 
> Vietnam is not going to match our navy attribution tactics. Even USS Ronald reegan got chased out of SCS and what makes you think Vietnam stand better chance?


Lol...Do you understand, after finished hakuryu-5 should be come back home, or you want to come back Bejing?

Stop in this Thread... if you want, go to another, i help you to known China don't have anything in here


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## Beast

congtubl said:


> Lol...Do you understand, after finished hakuryu-5 should be come back home, or you want to come back Bejing?
> 
> Stop in this Thread... if you want, go to another, i help you to known China don't have anything in here


Harukyu-5 is rent by Vietnam recently to carry our deep oil drilling.. stop hiding from your humiliation. But it is now stuck at Vietnam sea, not doing anything.. Becos it is blocked from any drilling in nine dash line by China.


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## Viet

Beast said:


> Harukyu-5 is rent by Vietnam recently to carry our deep oil drilling.. stop hiding from your humiliation. But it is now stuck at Vietnam sea, not doing anything.. Becos it is blocked from any drilling in nine dash line by China.


Not a problem
2 steps forward, 1 step back
Still a progress
It’s a long game
You can’t drill either.
The military buildup continues. We can wait.

Think of the losers from the Han, to the Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing. Xi will become one another loser in the long list.


----------



## Viet

*U.S. to provide ship to Vietnam to boost South China Sea patrols*
Phil Stewart and James Pearson






U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper reviews the Vietnamese guard of honour during a welcoming ceremony in Hanoi, Vietnam November 20, 2019.
REUTERS/KHAM





U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper speaks at the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam in Hanoi, Vietnam November 20, 2019.
REUTERS/KHAM


HANOI (Reuters) - The United States announced on Wednesday it will provide Vietnam with another coast guard cutter for its growing fleet of ships, boosting Hanoi's ability to patrol the South China Sea amid tensions with China.

U.S. Defense Secretary Mark Esper disclosed the decision during an address in Vietnam, which has emerged as the most vocal opponent in Asia of China's territorial claims in the South China Sea.

In his speech, Esper took aim at China, which he accused of "bullying" neighbors, like Vietnam.

"China's unilateral efforts to assert illegitimate maritime claims threaten other nations' access to vital natural resources, undermine the stability of regional energy markets, and increase the risk of conflict," Esper told students at the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam.

The vessel will be Vietnam's second cutter from the U.S. Coast Guard, which just two years ago transferred a Hamilton-class cutter to Vietnam. By providing the ships, the U.S. hopes to enable Vietnam to assert its sovereignty and deter China.

More than four decades after the Vietnam War ended, ties between the United States and Vietnam are increasingly focused on shared concerns over Chinese expansion.

China claims 90% of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea, but Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also lay claim to parts of it, through which about $3 trillion of trade passes each year.

Beijing in July sent a ship for a months-long seismic survey to an area internationally designated as Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) but also claimed by China.

Vietnam said earlier this month it could explore legal action in the dispute, a move previously taken by the Philippines - where Esper visited earlier this week.

In 2016, the Philippines won a ruling from the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague that invalidated China's claim over most of the South China Sea.

Speaking earlier at Vietnam's defense ministry, Esper said the international rules-based order “has come under duress."

"Collectively, we must stand up against coercion and intimidation, protect the rights of all nations, big and small," Esper said.

The United States accuses China of militarizing the South China Sea and trying to intimidate Asian neighbors who might want to exploit its extensive oil and gas reserves. 

In April, the United States delivered six patrol boats worth $12 million to Vietnam's Coast Guard. Those vessels were in addition to another twelve "Metal Shark" patrol boats it provided to Vietnam in the last two years.



(Reporting by Phil Stewart; Editing by Andrew Heavens and Christian Schmollinger)


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## congtubl

Viet said:


> Not a problem
> 2 steps forward, 1 step back
> Still a progress
> It’s a long game
> You can’t drill either.
> The military buildup continues. We can wait.
> 
> Think of the losers from the Han, to the Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing. Xi will become one another loser in the long list.


And China is always afraid of Pack Hang Seo.

In Dec, Russia and Vietnam will have ex. rescue submarrine

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## smooth manifold

Beast said:


> Harukyu-5 is rent by Vietnam recently to carry our deep oil drilling.. stop hiding from your humiliation. But it is now stuck at Vietnam sea, not doing anything.. Becos it is blocked from any drilling in nine dash line by China.


that's their typical pathetic mindset. it's not something new.


----------



## Viet

A72 missiles
Test firing












The 1,000 hp German diesel engine makes a job for the legacy T54 tanks.


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## Viet

Coming next year: one more giant patrol vessel provided by the US






https://www.stripes.com/news/pacifi...d-rising-tensions-in-south-china-sea-1.608059


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## Viet

OTO Melara 76mm ship gun
coming likely remained onboard of the US Hamilton class for Vietnam coast guard
Good for shore bombardment


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## Viet

good shooting

wkw wilk

The most powerful home made rifle in the inventory

Max range 3,000m
Velocity 882 m/s


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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> OTO Melara 76mm ship gun
> coming likely remained onboard of the US Hamilton class for Vietnam coast guard
> Good for shore bombardment


However, the Russian AK-176 shoots faster


----------



## warzone

Beast said:


> https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ai...3/mmsi:370718000/imo:8751617/vessel:HAKURYU_5
> 
> Lol.. why your hakuryu-5 is at Ho chin Minh sea area and not at SCS?
> 
> Typical selective posting. Vietnam is not allow any new drilling in China nine dash line.
> 
> Vietnam is not going to match our navy attribution tactics. Even USS Ronald reegan got chased out of SCS and what makes you think Vietnam stand better chance?



PLA navy chased away US navy ..haha !!! You are another delusional and funny guy @Beast . Last couple days, US Navy warships twice sailed near islands claimed by China in the South China Sea. Where was big mouth PLA navy?

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/e...sputed-south-china-sea-amid-us-china-tensions




Big mouth PLA threat US, threat VN, threat Japan, threat Taiwan, threat India, ect…
When PLA will stop talking and start a military operation against a real army? PLA is good against Uyghurs Islamists armed with knifes and axes or the Tibetans or the unarmed students...

Here we go again, big mouth PLA threat military actions against British Royal navy and we all know it's a big joke

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...yal-navy-aircraft-carrier-hms-queen-elizabeth


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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> However, the Russian AK-176 shoots faster


All Vietnam warships have one Ak176 on the starboard, two rapid firing Ak630 guns on the backboard.


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## sahureka2

You have some information on the characteristics of this 100-ton submarine


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## congtubl

Viet said:


> good shooting
> 
> wkw wilk
> 
> The most powerful home made rifle in the inventory
> 
> Max range 3,000m
> Velocity 882 m/s



Now we have a new gun: *ORSIS T-5000
http://www.armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2019/1127/103055546/detail.shtml*

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## AViet

sahureka2 said:


> You have some information on the characteristics of this 100-ton submarine



Recently there are some rumors about midget submarine being built en masse by Vietnamese defense industry, but I cannot find any concrete information.

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## congtubl

AViet said:


> Recently there are some rumors about midget submarine being built en masse by Vietnamese defense industry, but I cannot find any concrete information.


May be:


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## congtubl

https://vnexpress.net/khoa-hoc/nhun...-lam-thanh-tuu-ung-dung-khoa-hoc-4019936.html


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## sahureka2

congtubl said:


> May be:



Yugoslavia R-3E

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## Viet

Ok got banned for 2 weeks
I insulted the PLA.


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## Viet

make old to new

Ak47 with target finder aimpoint
Parts of the rifle are made in plastics to reduce weight.










Phương án tích hợp kính ngắm Aimpoint trên súng trường tấn công AK-47


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## Indos

Deputy Director Vietnam Army Academy Mayjend Tran Khac Dao visited Yonkav 1 Kostrad

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## congtubl

www.qdnd.vn

Sonya-class minesweeper

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## Viet

In these days like in many places in the world, the Vietnamese Defence Attaché Office in Singapore held a ceremony on December 3 to mark the 75th founding anniversary of the Vietnam People’s Army. When the army was founded, it only consisted of a platoon. Interestingly 3 women were part of the army.
The armed forces had gone thru a deep valley of bloods and tears.


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## Viet

The mini submarines Dolphin class look promising. Can we make them in series?













Need more 4,000 ton submarine supply and rescue vessels












Exercise 
Rescuing a sunken submarine


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## Viet

Live fire exercise


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## Viet

From Russia with love

parliament speaker Nguyễn Thị Kim Ngân arrives Moscow on a visit to Russia. In a discussion with the director of Russia military complex Rustam Minnikhanov, she reportedly expressed Vietnam interest of acquiring two more Gepard missile Frigates.


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## Viet

The Gepard will be better off if armed by Kalibr cruise missiles - instead of Kh35.


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## Viet

Yugo class submarines






Tàu ngầm mini lớp Yugo và tàu bán ngầm I-SILC của Hải quân Việt Nam





Tàu bán ngầm I-SILC được thử nghiệm sau khi hoàn thành công tác bảo dưỡng


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## Viet

*Two Japanese navy vessels conduct friendly sweep of Da Nang*

By *Phan Nghia*

Thu, 12/12/2019 | 21:00 (GMT+7)







Two Japanese minesweepers at Tien Sa Port in Da Nang, December 12, 2019. Photo by Vietnam News Agency/Tran Le Lam.


Carrying 180 officers, the ships berthed at Tien Sa Port on a four-day visit.

The Japanese crew, led by navy captain Ikubo Seiji of Minesweeper Division III, is set to visit Da Nang’s Navy and Military High Command where officers of both countries will for the first time discuss and share minesweeping intel, Vietnam News Agency reported.

As part of Japan’s Free and Open Indo-Pacific Strategy, the initiative aims to strengthen cooperation between its own and other navies across the Indian Ocean.

Da Nang is the crews 7th destination since embarking for the Phillippines, Bangladesh, Maldives, Bahrain, India, and Malaysia.

JS Bungo is a large-sized, Uraga-class minesweeper, 141 meters long and 22 meters wide, with a 5,700-ton loading capacity. It is one of Japans two largest mine countermeasure vessels.

JS Takashima is a small-sized, Hirashima-class minesweeper, 57 meters long and 9.8 meters wide, with a 570-ton loading capacity.


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## Viet

another Medics group on a UN mission to South Sudan 

pictures qdnd.vn



















A Vietnamese peacekeeper and their families






Captain Nguyen Van Quynh bidding farewell to his wife and three-month-old daughter






A happy moment with relatives






Major Bach Thuy Hang hugs her two sons before boarding.






A touching moment






A representative from the Australian Embassy in Vietnam bids farewell to members of the L2FH Rotation 2.












They are all ready for the noble international mission.






In a group photo before the flight












They are to serve at the UN Mission in South Sudan for a year.






Smiling with strong determination to successfully fulfill assigned tasks


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## Viet

exercise with T90S tanks
































Test run


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## Bogeyman

VIETNAM’S 2019 DEFENSE WHITE PAPER: PREPARING FOR A FRAGILE FUTURE
https://amti.csis.org/vietnams-2019-defense-white-paper-preparing-for-a-fragile-future/
​

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## Viet

Surprise

SPYDER anti aircraft missile battery

Seems readying for test firing


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## congtubl

New ver. for Vietnam with 8 UKSK

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## Viet

*
“Future of the Vietnamese Defense Industry - Market Attractiveness, Competitive Landscape and Forecasts to 2024”*


Tweet this
Vietnamese defense budget is projected to register a CAGR of 9.43% over 2020-2024, to reach US$7.9 billion by 2024.

This report provides readers with detailed analysis of both historic and forecast defense industry values, factors influencing demand, the challenges faced by industry participants, analysis of industry leading companies and key news.

China's increased naval presence and territorial claims in the disputed waters of South China Sea are the major factors compelling the Vietnamese government to increase its military capabilities. The Vietnamese Government allocated US$5.1 billion towards military expenditure in 2019, of which 32.5% is earmarked for the procurement of defense equipment. The country's defense expenditure increased at a CAGR of 7.34% over 2015-2019.

The country's military modernization efforts are focused on preventing China from taking hold of disputed territory in the South China Sea. Over the forecast period, the country is expected to procure fighter and multi-role aircraft, armored vehicles, naval vessels, patrol ships, maritime patrol aircraft, and surveillance equipment. The country's defense expenditure is projected to increase from US$5.5 billion in 2020 to US$7.9 billion by 2024, increasing at a CAGR of 9.43%.

Between 2015 and 2019, Vietnam cumulatively spent US$7.2 billion on defense equipment, while US$15 billion was assigned for revenue expenditure. Over the forecast period, Vietnam's capital expenditure is expected to grow at a CAGR of 9.43% and revenue expenditure is expected to register growth of 9.44%. Vietnam's slow population growth is projected to increase per capita defense expenditure from US$53.7 in 2019 to US$79.3 by 2024.

Vietnamese homeland security expenditure, on a cumulative basis, is expected to be US$20.9 billion over the forecast period compared to US$12.7 billion spent between 2015 and 2019. Efforts to protect its maritime boundaries, coupled with the need to counter human trafficking and the illicit drug trade are anticipated to drive homeland security expenditure during the forecast period.

The lack of technology and low domestic defense capability has forced the country to import weapon systems from foreign OEMs in order to fulfill its military requirements. Over 2014 to 2018, Russia emerged as the largest supplier of military hardware to Vietnam with a share of over 77.9% of Vietnam's imports, followed by Israel, Belarus, South Korea and Ukraine accounting for 9%, 4.1%, 2.8% and 2% respectively. Vietnam prefers government-to-government deals when procuring defense equipment; therefore, improving government-to-government relationships are expected to open up business opportunities over the forecast period.

*Select Findings*


China's increased naval presence and territorial claims in the disputed waters of South China Sea are the major factors compelling the Vietnamese government to increase its military capabilities.
Counter-amphibious operations are a major focus of the Vietnam People's Navy (VPN) to combat potential enemies on the sea and as well as on the islands.
Over the past five years, Vietnam has increased spending on the enhancement of its maritime competencies and this is likely to continue over the forecast period.
The Vietnamese Government allocated US$5.1 billion towards military expenditure in 2019, of which 32.5% is earmarked for the procurement of defense equipment.
The country's defense expenditure increased at a CAGR of 7.34% over 2015-2019.
*Reasons to Buy*


This report will give the user confidence to make the correct business decisions based on a detailed analysis of the Vietnamese defense industry market trends for the coming five years.
The market opportunity section will inform the user about the various military requirements that are expected to generate revenues during the forecast period. The description includes technical specifications, recent orders, and the expected investment pattern by the country during the forecast period.
Detailed profiles of the top domestic and foreign defense manufacturers with information about their products, alliances, recent contract wins, and financial analysis wherever available. This will provide the user with a total competitive landscape of the sector.
A deep qualitative analysis of the Vietnamese defense industry covering sections including demand drivers, key trends and latest industry contracts.
*Companies Mentioned*


The Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (SBIC)
Sukhoi
Admiralty Shipyards
Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding
*Key Topics Covered*

*1. Introduction*

*2. Executive Summary*

*3. Market Attractiveness and Emerging Opportunities*

3.1. Current Market Scenario

3.1.1. Primary threat perception

3.1.2. Military Doctrine & Strategy

3.1.3. Procurement Programs

3.1.4. Top Procurement Programs By Value (US$ Million) 2019-2024

3.1.5. Social, Political and Economic Environment & Support for Defense Projects

3.1.6. Political & Strategic Alliances

3.2. Defense Market Size Historical and Forecast

3.2.1. Defense expenditure is projected to grow at a CAGR of 9.43% during the forecast period

3.2.2. Disputes in the South China Sea and military modernization are expected to drive the Vietnamese military expenditure

3.2.3. Defense expenditure as a percentage of GDP is expected to hover at 2% in 2024

3.3. Analysis of Defense Budget Allocation

3.3.1. Share of capital expenditure in the overall defense budget is expected to increase

3.3.2. Vietnam's capital expenditure is expected to grow at a CAGR of 9.43% over the forecast period

3.3.3. Per capita defense expenditure to be US$79.3 by 2024

3.4. Homeland Security Market Size and Forecast

3.4.1. Homeland security expenditure is expected to be US$5.1 billion by 2024

3.4.2. The main factors driving homeland security expenditure are the illicit drugs trade and human trafficking

3.5. Benchmarking with Key Global Markets

3.5.1. Vietnamese defense expenditure is expected to remain low compared to leading spenders

3.5.2. Vietnam has a low defense expenditure compared to other Asian countries

3.5.3. Vietnam's defense expenditure as a percentage of GDP is higher than leading Asian defense spenders

3.6. Defense Market Opportunities: Key Trends

3.6.1. Top 10 Defense Market Sectors by Value (US$ Million) - Projections over 2019-2024

3.6.2. Naval Vessels - Frigates

3.6.3. Infrastructure Construction

3.6.4. Facilities Management

*4. Defense Procurement Market Dynamics*

4.1. Import Market Dynamics

4.1.1. Limited domestic defense capabilities drives the country's defense imports

4.1.2. Defense imports are expected to increase over the forecast period

4.1.3. Russia is a significant defense trade partner of Vietnam

4.1.4. Naval vessels and aircraft accounted for the majority of defense imports over 2014-2018

4.2. Export Market Dynamics

4.2.1. The country has been unable to access the global defense market

*5. Industry Dynamics*

5.1. Five Forces Analysis

5.1.1. Bargaining power of supplier: medium

5.1.2. Bargaining power of buyer: low

5.1.3. Barrier to entry: medium

5.1.4. Intensity of rivalry: Medium

5.1.5. Threat of substitution: low to medium

5.2. Market Regulation

5.2.1. Vietnamese procurement rules focus on international collaborations

5.2.2. Vietnam has not disclosed any offset obligations

5.3. Market Entry Route

5.3.1. Budget Process

5.3.2. Procurement Policy and Process

5.3.3. Foreign equipment manufacturers can enter the market through direct commercial sales

5.3.4. Government-to-government deals are an attractive entry route to the country's defense market

5.4. Key Challenges

5.4.1. Lack of transparency and prevalence of corruption hinders the growth of domestic defense industry

5.4.2. Absence of private players limits the growth of domestic defense industry

*6. Competitive Landscape and Strategic Insights*

6.1. Competitive Landscape Overview

6.1.1. Vietnam Market Share Analysis, 2019-2024

6.2. Key Companies

6.2.1. The Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (SBIC): overview

6.2.2. The Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (SBIC): products

6.2.3. The Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (SBIC): recent announcements and strategic initiatives

6.2.4. The Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (SBIC): alliances

6.2.5. The Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (SBIC): recent contract awards

6.2.6. Sukhoi: overview

6.2.7. Sukhoi: products

6.2.8. Sukhoi: recent contract awards

6.2.9. Admiralty Shipyards: overview

6.2.10. Admiralty Shipyards: recent announcements and strategic initiatives

6.2.11. Admiralty Shipyards: products

6.2.12. Admiralty Shipyards: recent contract awards

6.2.13. Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding: overview

6.2.14. Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding: products

6.2.15. Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding: recent announcements and strategic initiatives

6.2.16. Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding: recent contract awards

*7. Business Environment and Country Risk*

7.1. Economic Performance

7.1.1. Gross Domestic per Capita

7.1.2. Gross Domestic Product, current US$

7.1.3. Exports of Goods and Services

7.1.4. Imports of Goods and Services

7.1.5. Local Currency Unit per US$

7.1.6. Market capitalization of listed companies (US$ Billion)

7.1.7. Market capitalization of listed companies as a % of GDP

7.1.8. Goods Exports as a percentage of GDP

7.1.9. Goods Imports as a percentage of GDP

7.1.10. Services Imports as a percentage of GDP

7.1.11. Services Exports as a percentage of GDP

7.1.12. Foreign direct investment, net (BoP, current US$ Billion)

7.1.13. Net foreign direct investment as a % of GDP

7.1.14. Mining, Manufacturing, Utilities Output

For more information about this report visit https://www.researchandmarkets.com/r/dlfsxb

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## Viet

Interesting 

Provided by USSR, probably no longer in service

Vietnam’s IL28 bombers


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## congtubl

And more Pic in this link: https://vnexpress.net/thoi-su/viet-nam-trung-bay-nhieu-vu-khi-hien-dai-4030568.html


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## Nike

Viet said:


> Interesting
> 
> Provided by USSR, probably no longer in service
> 
> Vietnam’s IL28 bombers




Our had long in the museum though  got 36 of them served in Navy, in torpedo bomber varians with Chinese Yu 2 torpedo


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## Viet

Nike said:


> Our had long in the museum though  got 36 of them served in Navy, in torpedo bomber varians with Chinese Yu 2 torpedo
> View attachment 594742
> View attachment 594743


36 bombers?
What the hell did you receive so many of them? You hardly needed bombers against communist rebels, separatists and terrorists!


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## Nike

Viet said:


> 36 bombers?
> What the hell did you receive so many of them? You hardly needed bombers against communist rebels, separatists and terrorists!




Not 36 bomber, thats only came from Il 28 beagle alone, we had another 24 Tu 16i Maritime strike variants along with four squadron Mix of B 25 mitchell and B 26 invader medium range bomber around 40 units. Thats not enough to leveled Singapore and Malaysia during confrontation against Commonwealth though. 

B25 lowpass in Jakarta





Fleets of B25 bomber in Kemayoran





Tu 16i heavy bomber TNI AU




B25 in our Museum


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## Viet

Nike said:


> Not 36 bomber, thats only came from Il 28 beagle alone, we had another 24 Tu 16i Maritime strike variants along with four squadron Mix of B 25 mitchell and B 26 invader medium range bomber around 40 units. Thats not enough to leveled Singapore and Malaysia during confrontation against Commonwealth though.
> 
> B25 lowpass in Jakarta
> 
> View attachment 594773
> 
> Fleets of B25 bomber in Kemayoran
> 
> View attachment 594774
> 
> Tu 16i heavy bomber TNI AU
> View attachment 594775
> 
> B25 in our Museum
> View attachment 594776


That’s overkill!
If North Vietnam had received all necessary weapons by USSR and China, the war would end earlier.


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## Viet

Recently on official public display 

Improved S125 anti aircraft missiles

radio-guided air defense missile system, capable of engaging targets in severe jamming environments at low altitudes. It can also be deployed against targets on ground and water surface if visible to radar.


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## Viet

Still running

T62













All being parts of Vietnam’s tank armies


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## Viet

Bmp2





Xe chiến đấu bộ binh BMP-2



Zsu234





Pháo phòng không tự hành ZSU-23-4.



Field surveillance radars P18M





Đài radar P18M


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## Viet

Transport vessels 
What class is that?


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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> Transport vessels
> What class is that?


Looks like a Damen 5009 Stan Patron with Vietnam flag, new acquisition?
if the answer is yes, for the Navy or for the Coast Guard ?

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## Viet

Among items that are displayed, a model T-54B
Vietnam needs more warships. Submarines, corvettes, frigates, destroyers.

text: vietnamnet.vn





Thủ tướng cùng các đại biểu xem tổ hợp tên lửa đất phòng không C125-2TM






Thủ tướng cùng các đại biểu bên xe tăng T-90S






Những năm qua, quân đội được trang bị nhiều vũ khí và khí tài hiện đại, đảm bảo yêu cầu phòng thủ, bảo vệ lãnh thổ






Năm 2020 và những năm tới, lực lượng quân đội nghiên cứu, khai thác, làm chủ phương tiện, sử dụng có hiệu quả vũ khí, trang thiết bị mới, kể cả nghệ thuật tác chiến, tổ chức bộ máy...






Thủ tướng, Chủ tịch QH, Bộ trưởng Quốc phòng nghe thuyết minh về các loại tàu cứu hộ, tàu cảnh sát biển...












Chủ tịch QH xem loạt súng ống bộ binh


















Thủ tướng thử


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## congtubl

Tested SPYDER-SR with Python 5





Derby-MR SPYDER-MR





https://vtv.vn/video/le-ky-niem-30-...n-doi-nhan-dan-viet-nam-21-12-2019-411726.htm
From 28:00

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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> Looks like a Damen 5009 Stan Patron with Vietnam flag, new acquisition?
> if the answer is yes, for the Navy or for the Coast Guard ?


In general white is coast guard, grey is naval warships.

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## Viet

Loading weapons onto a submarine
Most interesting item: Kalibr cruise missiles packed in tubes








_



_



A sub seen in the distance in a exercise


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## Viet

Vietnam’s most modern Air defense system SPYDER

Different verhicles with missile launcher

Spyder Radar ELM-2084 can detect enemy aircraft in a distance of 330km.
Acquiring 200 targets at once, with missiles firing at 20 targets.

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## Viet

Sub hunter Frigate Petya class
Pretty old ships but armed with modern torpedo












New gunboats












Submariners at a naval school in RoK

















A S300 missile battery
Russia finally appears willing to provide offensive weapons which are requested by Vietnam.











Iskander ballistic missiles


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## Viet

SCUD balistic missile battery

still running


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## Viet

DSE Vietnam 2019







Steel cutting for the 4th landing craft
Roro5612











Perfect fit Klub-K cruise missiles


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## Viet

Practice 






















In the series making old to new

57mm AA gun 
auto loading
Max firing rate 120 rounds per minute 
Max range 6,000m
Radar guided


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## Viet

Which country is it?

Tuổi trẻ TV reports the shipyard Z173 is to deliver the first batch of 60 patrol boats.

class CQ-02

Length 15,1m, wide 3,86m, weight 12.5 ton

made by plastic PPC, strengthened by bullet resistant steel

Max speed 43 knots 

vhf radar, range 36 nautical mile

gps navigation system

built-in automatic mounted machine gun 12.7 mm

Man, I wish we can build frigates and destroyers en masse in the future. What we need is importing foreign technology.


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## Viet

More fire power: 
Kh35 antiship missiles mounted on Pohang class missile frigate #18


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## Viet

Developed against enemy aircraft carrier strike group

P35B antiship missile
with warhead weight 1 ton
supersonic speed Mach 1.4
range 460 km


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## Nike

Viet said:


> Developed against enemy aircraft carrier strike group
> 
> P35B antiship missile
> with warhead weight 1 ton
> supersonic speed Mach 1.4
> range 460 km



Unfortunetaly we had retired the previous version of shaddock missile


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## Viet

Nike said:


> Unfortunetaly we had retired the previous version of shaddock missile


Practical reason. Vietnam military budget is too small hence the needs to keep legacy military weapons until they disappear in dust.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> Practical reason. Vietnam military budget is too small hence the needs to keep legacy military weapons until they disappear in dust.



We retired shaddock because the Whiskey class Submarine we operated being retired too in 1980's.


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## GS Zhou

Viet said:


> Developed against enemy aircraft carrier strike group
> 
> P35B antiship missile
> with warhead weight 1 ton
> supersonic speed Mach 1.4
> range 460 km


Do you really understand the topic that you were talking about? You want to show the old USSR missile, but the images you pasted is actually the taiwan navy Cheng Kung-class frigate, which is a copy of the US Perry class. And also the missile launched from the ship is NOT the old USSR missile, but the taiwan Hsiung Feng III missile. 

the image you post:





vs. taiwan navy FFG 1101 launches Hsiung Feng III





It's really weird because you've post the defense topic news for long years, but constantly making such silly mistakes.

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## Viet

GS Zhou said:


> Do you really understand the topic that you were talking about? You want to show the old USSR missile, but the images you pasted is actually the taiwan navy Cheng Kung-class frigate, which is a copy of the US Perry class. And also the missile launched from the ship is NOT the old USSR missile, but the taiwan Hsiung Feng III missile.
> 
> the image you post:
> View attachment 598734
> 
> 
> vs. taiwan navy FFG 1101 launches Hsiung Feng III
> View attachment 598736
> 
> 
> It's really weird because you've post the defense topic news for long years, but constantly making such silly mistakes.


Ok my mistake

this below is from Vietnam military.

as long as the weapon is still operational I post here (even for fun, for educational purposes).

P35B missile













Nike said:


> We retired shaddock because the Whiskey class Submarine we operated being retired too in 1980's.


interesting, why the Soviets did not deliver to North Vietnam? The North Vietnamese would need the submarines more than you. Anyway, welcome back to military buildup, even not sorts of communist scare this time.

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## Viet

*ASIA DEFENSE | ECONOMY | SECURITY | SOUTHEAST ASIA*
*Vietnam Shipbuilding Capabilities in the Headlines With Patrol Vessel Deliveries to Nigeria*






A picture of the Le Quy Don, a Vietnam Navy sailing ship.
Credit: Wikimedia Commons


By Prashanth Parameswaran
January 09, 2020

Earlier this month, reports surfaced regarding Vietnam’s building of patrol vessels for Nigeria. The development spotlighted Hanoi’s ongoing ambitions to increase the global reach of its shipbuilding capabilities amid the opportunities and challenges that this objective continues to present for the country.

Vietnam’s maritime industry continues has continued to experience notable growth over the years, and its shipbuilding sector includes a series of shipyards in the south, central, and northern areas of the country including state-owned and foreign-linked firms. Despite ongoing challenges like capacity and cases of corruption, Vietnam continues to eye opportunities to expand its shipbuilding capabilities through various means — including constructing and delivering boats to foreign countries.

Last week, we saw another round of headlines about Vietnam’s shipbuilding capabilities. Local media reports spotlighted the fact that Vietnamese shipyards were in the process of delivering dozens of patrol boats to Nigeria as part of existing commitments that had been made.

The report by Vietnam’s _Tuoi Tre_newspaper, last updated January 5, focused on two separate deliveries by Vietnamese shipyards. The first was the delivery of *50 patrol boats *by Hanoi-based James Boat Technology Company, which had been transported from Doan Xa Port in the northern Vietnamese city of Hai Phong to Harcourt Port in Nigeria in mid-December. Those boats will reportedly be used for patrol, search and rescue missions, and protection of oil rigs. The second was the expected delivery by Vietnamese firm Hong Ha of *10 steel-armored patrol boats* now being kept at a port in Hai Phong City, following a deal signed with what was described as “a Nigerian billionaire.”

Few additional specifics were offered by the report, including the exact identification of the type of vessels. Based on photos and videos that accompanied the report, _IHS Jane’s_ noted that the armored patrol boats to be delivered looked similar to the 17 m Manta fast patrol/interceptor craft that had been made by Malaysian company Suncraft and also advertised by Vietnam’s Haiphong-based 189 Shipbuilding Company (Z189).

The deliveries themselves are in line with Vietnam’s ambitions to increase the global outreach of its shipbuilding capabilities. They are also consistent with Nigeria’s efforts to build up its naval capabilities, with Nigerian officials indicating late last year that new vessels were expected from countries such as France, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

To be sure, this is just one in a series of developments spotlighting Vietnam’s global shipbuilding ambitions and the expansion of its maritime sector more generally. But with these trends expected to continue on into the future, specific manifestations of this such as the one we saw surfacing int his case will continue to be important to monitor to assess how Hanoi is managing the opportunities and challenges therein.


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## Viet

A docu (in German language sorry) over Germany‘s involvement. After the WW II, colonial French made a brutal attempt to retake the control over Vietnam (along with Laos and Cambodia). The indochina war that would last for 9 years broke out. Fighting on the foremost front lines were the soldiers of the Fremdenlegion or Légion étrangère.

70 pct of Légion étrangère members were former Deutsche Wehrmacht. Some were recruited from the former Waffen SS - a racistic ideological military arm of the Deutsche Wehrmacht. At of the day, the Germans were the ones that fought until the bitter end.






Unter der Doppelrune "wirst du siegen": Werbeplakat für Franzosen, die freiwillig in die Waffen-SS eintreten sollten

Quelle: picture alliance / akg-images


----------



## Viet

A72 AA missiles on a Kamaz truck


----------



## Viet

*China Would Rather You Forget Their Losing a War Against Vietnam*







January 9, 2020 Topic: Security Blog Brand: The Buzz Tags: ChinaVietnamMilitaryTechnologyWar

In 1979 the PLA didn't live up to expectations.

by Charlie Gao

Key Point: The PLA was able to use 1979 as a testing ground for military reforms.


Chinese operations against Vietnam in the 1980s are often divided into four phases. In the first, the Chinese and Vietnamese further entrenched their positions along the border. This lasted until 1981. The second and third phase consisted of escalating offensive operations across the border from 1981 to 1987, gradually increasing in intensity. The last phase involved the PLA’s withdrawal from the border region. The political objectives of the Chinese incursions were to “punish” Vietnam for its continued belligerence towards Thailand and Cambodia. Since Vietnamese troops were going into Cambodia, Chinese troops would continue to do the same. Militarily, China saw the border conflict as a way to evolve the PLA from an antiquated fighting force to a modern one, by testing new doctrines and equipment on the border.

The PLA’s performance in the 1979 war was so bad, even Vietnamese commanders were surprised, according to some sources. This was a result of its reliance on Korean War–style infantry assault tactics, due to the operational inflexibility and stagnation of military thought in the PLA. The layout of the command structure, and the infrastructure that supported it, could not support maneuver warfare by smaller units of higher-quality forces.

Following the 1979 war, many reforms and reorganizations occurred within the PLA. Old leadership was removed, and a fresh set of new officers was brought in. Finally, in 1984 the situation presented itself for a test of these reforms. Late in 1983, Deng Xiaoping met with Prince Norodom Sihanouk of Cambodia. The prince wanted help, as Vietnamese soldiers were making significant gains inside of Cambodia. As a result, Deng decided to mobilize the PLA for a significant offensive operation in 1984. The offensive’s objectives were to capture the areas of Laoshan and Zheyinshan. 

After preparatory barrages throughout most of April 1984, the ground offensive was finally launched on April 28. Five infantry regiments assaulted hilltop positions around Laoshan, taking them one by one. This was not a total success story, as these regiments took heavy casualties and used inflexible tactics similar to 1979. The two regiments assigned to assault Zheyinshan fared better. Flexible command allowed the attacks to be postponed until the opportune time, and the attack was a great success, with all Vietnamese positions being captured. The divisional commander in charge of those regiments was soon promoted to command the Eleventh Army, and the attack was cited as a textbook example of what the PLA could now accomplish.

The Vietnamese launched counterattacks in the MD-84 Campaign in an attempt to reclaim the positions they lost in the Laoshan offensive. Counterattacks occurred against the Chinese positions at Laoshan throughout June and July. After-action reports from these offensives suggest that Chinese military modernization proved to be a possible reason for success. Vietnamese veterans recalled being shelled by Chinese artillery even at nighttime, due to the deployment of new Chinese night-vision devices to the frontline. In addition, Chinese logistics achieved new levels of efficiency. One Chinese artillery commander remarked that in repelling the counterattacks, he could execute as many fire missions as he wished without worrying about ammunition supply for the first time in his career.

Operations in the Laoshan sector also were the catalyst for the development of greater direct-action capability among the PLA’s reconnaissance units. After a Vietnamese Dac Cong commando unit destroyed a PLA counterbattery radar in 1984, Deng Xiaoping asked the PLA General Staff to create similar capabilities. All Chinese military regions were ordered to organize reconnaissance brigades, which were then rotated throughout the Laoshan sector. Fifteen reconnaissance brigades were created, three to five of which were deployed to the sector at any given time. These brigades were very active in raiding rear areas, and experience gained by them was later used by the PLA to help create their own special-operations forces.

Overall, while the Sino-Vietnamese border wars might have seemed insignificant, they proved to be an effective testing ground for the PLA’s reforms. Trials by fire in the Laoshan sector allowed the PLA to grow a new cadre of forward-thinking leadership. New technologies and organizational structures were also trialed and reformed, and combat experience was gained that lead to the creation of Chinese SOF. In one Chinese general’s words, the border conflict “allowed him to achieve his dream of waging modern war by modern methods.” The Sino-Vietnamese border conflict of 1979 to 1990 can be seen as the crucible in which the modern PLA was born, reformed from the lumbering army that attacked Vietnam in 1979.


_The author was informed by _Chinese Military Strategy in the Third Indochina War_ by Edward C. Dowd and _Deng Xiaoping’s Long War: The Military Conflict between China and Vietnam 1979–1991_ by Xiaoming Zhang._

_Charlie Gao studied political and computer science at Grinnell College and is a frequent commentator on defense and national-security issues. This piece was originally featured in September 2019 and is being republished due to reader's interest._


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## Viet

a model of similar 60 highspeed patrol boats that are sold to Nigeria.


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## Viet

30y fighter pilot
Cpt Nguyễn Quang Sáng
coming from a farmer family, his father a war veteran


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## Viet

No money, no education, no job, no citizenship, no future? 

Why joining the US army is a very good alternative!

Plus, unlike Vietnam, US soldiers are very highly respected in daily life.












- good salary ranging from $20k to $100k per year

- generous healthcare

- free college education

- fast lane to US citizenship

- tax free when buying at US army shops

- personal development program


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## Viet

Some new features to BM21

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## Viet

Unmanned copter made by Vietnam’s Academy of Science and Technology

name dragonfly-df26

operating radius 50 km

fuel for 180 minutes

load 4 kg


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## Viet

a donation by Donald Trump

a US coast guard cutter 






© ẢNH : FACEBOOK
John Midgett (WHEC 726) thuộc lớp Hamilton của Hải quân Mỹ





© Ảnh : VGP


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## vishwambhar

I have never seen warriors like Vietnam.... This nation brought two super powers to its knees.... USA and China.... Still in spite of having such a huge navy and budget China can't even dream of touching Vietnam.... I'm really proud that India has Vietnam as a friend.... Wish our borders were sharing each others and we would have both be like Jai and veeru

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## Viet

S2 missile








Kamaz truck

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## Viet



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## vishwambhar

Viet said:


>



Is that T90?


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## Viet

vishwambhar said:


> Is that T90?


Yes it is

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## Viet

S125 missiles

they should be put on warships.


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## striver44

Viet said:


> S125 missiles
> 
> they should be put on warships.
> 
> 
> View attachment 601701
> View attachment 601702
> View attachment 601703


The smarter things to do is to buy newer more advanced and agile missile which actually have similar range .

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## Viet

striver44 said:


> The smarter things to do is to buy newer more advanced and agile missile which actually have similar range .


Ideally the submarines can fire nuclear ballistic missiles.


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## striver44

Viet said:


> Ideally the submarines can fire nuclear ballistic missiles.


Dude firstly im talking about air defence missile, instead of installing old bulky pechira why not invest in newer shtil missile, secondly kilo's cant launch ballistic missile, as it would not fit inside.

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## Viet

striver44 said:


> Dude firstly im talking about air defence missile, instead of installing old bulky pechira why not invest in newer shtil missile, secondly kilo's cant launch ballistic missile, as it would not fit inside.


Ok I mean we need to acquire new type of submarine that can fire ballistic missiles. 
Why scrapping the S125 when it is still very effective?


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## striver44

Viet said:


> Ok I mean we need to acquire new type of submarine that can fire ballistic missiles.
> Why scrapping the S125 when it is still very effective?


i never ask you to scrap didn't I???? i merely telling you that there are better alternative than sticking obsolete SAM into warships, for me as long as the electronics are still updated then the Pechora could still be effective against some military targets, but putting it on a warship is not quite an efficient from my perspective especially when you have other more potent choice.
a vls armed with shtil missile system would be better aboard your ships.


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> i never ask you to scrap didn't I???? i merely telling you that there are better alternative than sticking obsolete SAM into warships, for me as long as the electronics are still updated then the Pechora could still be effective against some military targets, but putting it on a warship is not quite an efficient from my perspective especially when you have other more potent choice.
> a vls armed with shtil missile system would be better aboard your ships.


The s125 is not absolete. In contrast it is highly effective because it’s upgraded by Vietnam military. In addition parts for the s125 missile are made domestically. That saves lots of money. I agree with you though it’s not easy to put the s125 on surface warships.







There is plan to acquire two more Gepard frigates with modern air defense however there is a hurdle. The Russians can’t deliver gas engines. Maybe Vietnam buys the engines from Germany.


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## sahureka2



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## striver44

Viet said:


> The s125 is not absolete. In contrast it is highly effective because it’s upgraded by Vietnam military. In addition parts for the s125 missile are made domestically. That saves lots of money. I agree with you though it’s not easy to put the s125 on surface warships.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is plan to acquire two more Gepard frigates with modern air defense however there is a hurdle. The Russians can’t deliver gas engines. Maybe Vietnam buys the engines from Germany.


You need atleast 4000 tons hull to install that and its cumbersome targetting system.


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> You need atleast 4000 tons hull to install that and its cumbersome targetting system.


Vietnam is currently building some landing ships, bigger than this ST2300 class landing ship, which is used by the Marines with their light tanks.
Big enough so I think we could put Kalibr cruise missiles or s125 missiles including all radar and fire control unit on deck. Just a theory though.

St2300 class

















St100 class


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## striver44

Viet said:


> Vietnam is currently building some landing ships, bigger than this ST2300 class landing ship, which is used by the Marines with their light tanks.
> Big enough so I think we could put Kalibr cruise missiles or s125 missiles including all radar and fire control unit on deck. Just a theory though.
> 
> St2300 class
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> St100 class


Using transport as missile trucks also proposed to the US navy in the form of this LPD based BMD ship.




Inpressive firepower with 288 VLS.(added vls could be added because plenty of space)


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## Barmaley

Vietnam signed a contract for at least 12 Yak-130 combat training aircraft worth more than $350 million in 2019, which might pave the way for a future Su-30SM or Su-35 contract.






https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2020/01/29/821674-vetnam-zaklyuchil

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## Viet

Perfect 

a Training jet before acquiring Su35


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## Viet

Factories


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## Viet

Visiting the US coast guard in Seattle

The US cutter 726 will be transferred to Vietnam in March.


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## striver44

New hangar for helo

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## sahureka2

striver44 said:


> New hangar for helo



April 2019









https://m.thanhnien.vn/the-gioi/vie...g-tren-chien-ham-dinh-tien-hoang-1074546.html


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## Dave1798

Barmaley said:


> Vietnam signed a contract for at least 12 Yak-130 combat training aircraft worth more than $350 million in 2019, which might pave the way for a future Su-30SM or Su-35 contract.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/articles/2020/01/29/821674-vetnam-zaklyuchil



Some report says contract is around 12 to equip 1 squadron (350 million isn't enough for 30+), Vietnam will need around 30 to fully replace L-39 unless they plan to order more later on.. Also, if they decide to go with Yak-130, what are the chances Vietnam will purchase European or American aircrafts in the future? Seems unusual that they sign a contract for a Russian trainer aircraft and consider F-16, Gripen etc.. to replace their old Su-22. Also their were reports that Vietnam were going to receive some T-6 Texan too. I think this contract mean Vietnam will probably purchase Russian aircrafts like Su-57 in the future instead. Maybe it is due to commonality/cost or Vietnam doesn't mind that China uses similar aircrafts now because I seen in earlier reports that Vietnam were moving away from Russian aircrafts due to Chinese familiarity with them..


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## Viva_Viet

Dave1798 said:


> Some report says contract is around 12 to equip 1 squadron (350 million isn't enough for 30+), Vietnam will need around 30 to fully replace L-39 unless they plan to order more later on.. Also, if they decide to go with Yak-130, what are the chances Vietnam will purchase European or American aircrafts in the future? Seems unusual that they sign a contract for a Russian trainer aircraft and consider F-16, Gripen etc.. to replace their old Su-22. Also their were reports that Vietnam were going to receive some T-6 Texan too. I think this contract mean Vietnam will probably purchase Russian aircrafts like Su-57 in the future instead. Maybe it is due to commonality/cost or Vietnam doesn't mind that China uses similar aircrafts now because I seen in earlier reports that Vietnam were moving away from Russian aircrafts due to Chinese familiarity with them..


Things changed so fast. CN economy is already too bad under trade war, now its going to fall into chaos due to failed to control Cor virus and dont know what kind of deadly virus will happen next.

PLA simply dont have the will to fight anymore.they just trying to survive .So same Russian jet will not be big problem now.


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> New hangar for helo


Too bad! the pace of adding capital ships to the navy has stalled. We need technology and money to build ships on assembly lines. Like making chinese sausage.


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## striver44

Viet said:


> Too bad! the pace of adding capital ships to the navy has stalled. We need technology and money to build ships on assembly lines. Like making chinese sausage.


Capital ship wont do much against china's fleet.
A swarm of AShM will do. Air launched AShM Jets imo is better option


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> Capital ship wont do much against china's fleet.
> A swarm of AShM will do. Air launched AShM Jets imo is better option


Vietnam can produce Kh35 antiship missiles however we lack capital ships that carry the missiles. You can see the navy can quickly install the missiles on the new Pohang class frigate. The ship itself is a donation by RoK. We still can’t build capital ships obviously.


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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> Vietnam can produce Kh35 antiship missiles *however we lack capital ships that carry the missiles*. You can see the navy can quickly install the missiles on the new Pohang class frigate. The ship itself is a donation by RoK. We still can’t build capital ships obviously.



If desired, there would also be plenty of space on the Hamilton OPV 8020 class,





which could go to the Vietnamese People's Navy and modify the optical number 22 by continuing the uniform numbering of the donated Pohang class (18-20)





1x OtoMelara 76/62 compact
2x4 Kh-35 Uran or Vietnamese version
1x AK-630 aft of the ship

and .....as Viet wrote last Sunday, another Hamilton-class Cutter will arrive in March


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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> If desired, there would also be plenty of space on the Hamilton OPV 8020 class,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which could go to the Vietnamese People's Navy and modify the optical number 22 by continuing the uniform numbering of the donated Pohang class (18-20)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1x OtoMelara 76/62 compact
> 2x4 Kh-35 Uran or Vietnamese version
> 1x AK-630 aft of the ship
> 
> and .....as Viet wrote last Sunday, another Hamilton-class Cutter will arrive in March


Yes the second cutter comes by next month but I don’t think the vessels are suitable as warships.

Too slow, too vulnerable


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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> Yes the second cutter comes by next month but I don’t think the vessels are suitable as warships.
> 
> Too slow, too vulnerable



I don't know today, but the Hamilton class was declared Speed: 29 kn
The ship has shown that it can perform long patrolling missions in the oceans well and its size gives the possibility to install systems to increase defense and offense capabilities.
Over 2x4 Kh-35 Uran, as I already wrote in my previous post you can install a Russian CIWS AK-630 in the same position previously done the US had the CIWS 20 mm Phalanx, possibly to expand the antiaircraft defense a couple could be used of quadruple systems A72 for MANPADS https://photo-2-baomoi.zadn.vn/w1000_r1m/2019_03_14_180_29978563/e016e42aea6a03345a7b.gif
The ship should still have sonar, and in the past it was also equipped with 324mm triple torpedo tubes for ASW torpedoes which therefore it should be possible to reposition or reuse the systems of Soviet origin already in use on the Petya class; to complete, ASW helicopter, not a Russian Kamov too high for the Hangar, but a new or acquired second-hand ASW helicopter of Western origin.
By carrying out the work in Vietnam shipyards which already demonstrated excellent skills, the final cost should remain low.
anti-ship missiles and MANPADS A72 system made in Vietnam
For the ASW fight it should not be difficult to find friendly countries that help to supply 324 mm at moderate prices, indeed if you use torpedo tubes and torpedoes of Soviet origin already in use in Vietnam the expense would be only to adapt the systems to the ship .
If you want to save money, instead of buying the CIWS AK-630, you could opt for the AK-230 recovered from one of the decommisionated naval units.
https://photo-1-baomoi.zadn.vn/w700_r1/2019_11_06_180_32842770/5ee40a2f906f7931207e.jpg

Waiting for new frigates, these 2 Hamilton can make an excellent contribution to the defense of national maritime borders

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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> I don't know today, but the Hamilton class was declared Speed: 29 kn
> The ship has shown that it can perform long patrolling missions in the oceans well and its size gives the possibility to install systems to increase defense and offense capabilities.
> Over 2x4 Kh-35 Uran, as I already wrote in my previous post you can install a Russian CIWS AK-630 in the same position previously done the US had the CIWS 20 mm Phalanx, possibly to expand the antiaircraft defense a couple could be used of quadruple systems A72 for MANPADS https://photo-2-baomoi.zadn.vn/w1000_r1m/2019_03_14_180_29978563/e016e42aea6a03345a7b.gif
> The ship should still have sonar, and in the past it was also equipped with 324mm triple torpedo tubes for ASW torpedoes which therefore it should be possible to reposition or reuse the systems of Soviet origin already in use on the Petya class; to complete, ASW helicopter, not a Russian Kamov too high for the Hangar, but a new or acquired second-hand ASW helicopter of Western origin.
> By carrying out the work in Vietnam shipyards which already demonstrated excellent skills, the final cost should remain low.
> anti-ship missiles and MANPADS A72 system made in Vietnam
> For the ASW fight it should not be difficult to find friendly countries that help to supply 324 mm at moderate prices, indeed if you use torpedo tubes and torpedoes of Soviet origin already in use in Vietnam the expense would be only to adapt the systems to the ship .
> If you want to save money, instead of buying the CIWS AK-630, you could opt for the AK-230 recovered from one of the decommisionated naval units.
> https://photo-1-baomoi.zadn.vn/w700_r1/2019_11_06_180_32842770/5ee40a2f906f7931207e.jpg
> 
> Waiting for new frigates, these 2 Hamilton can make an excellent contribution to the defense of national maritime borders


That sounds nice however having such ships runs counter Vietnam naval strategy of attack in ambush, then hit and run. The enemy can detect our ships hundreds of miles away, attacking them by long range weapons, our ships won’t survive in any open sea battle. I am not expert just believe the Hamilton ships are too exposed to radar. It can’t run fast enough to evade incoming enemy missiles.


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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> That sounds nice however having such ships runs counter Vietnam naval strategy of attack in ambush, then hit and run. The enemy can detect our ships hundreds of miles away, attacking them by long range weapons, our ships won’t survive in any open sea battle. I am not expert just believe the Hamilton ships are too exposed to radar. It can’t run fast enough to evade incoming enemy missiles.



If this is the problem, then it would have been useless to buy the Russian Gepard class frigates, as with a maximum speed of 27 knots they are slower than the Hamilton class.
True they are smaller in size and more modern as silhouettes, but not so small that they cannot be detected by the radar of a possible opponent.
YES the low displacement units are excellent for fast attacks, but not very suitable to patrol their EEZ, as they have a short autonomy, while the Hamilton can navigate safely even in stormy sea and keep control for long periods of navigation, which is very important today, to show the flag to remind others who administratively manages those sea areas
And equipping Hamilton with new systems would make them much more dissuasive towards possible provocations

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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> If this is the problem, then it would have been useless to buy the Russian Gepard class frigates, as with a maximum speed of 27 knots they are slower than the Hamilton class.
> True they are smaller in size and more modern as silhouettes, but not so small that they cannot be detected by the radar of a possible opponent.
> YES the low displacement units are excellent for fast attacks, but not very suitable to patrol their EEZ, as they have a short autonomy, while the Hamilton can navigate safely even in stormy sea and keep control for long periods of navigation, which is very important today, to show the flag to remind others who administratively manages those sea areas
> And equipping Hamilton with new systems would make them much more dissuasive towards possible provocations


The Gepard offers stealth. Ok at least a bit, while Hamilton is a white elephant that waits to be hit. Ha ha.

I wish we can make warships like making missiles and ammunitions. Because we have 100 ships, we can mount weapons onboard very quick: fresh from ammunitions factory, fire and heat resistant B41 anti tank missile.


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## Viet

Hunting submarine: dropping torpedo SET-40UE from a Ka-28 heli




































Và theo những hình ảnh có được, Ka-28 của Lữ đoàn 954 đã triển khai ít nhất 2 hai phao định vị thủy âm (có thể là loại RGB-NM-1) hỗ trợ cho tàu Petya xác định và tiêu diệt “tàu ngầm” đối phương bên dưới mặt nước bằng ngư lôi SET-40UE, vũ khí chống ngầm chính trên các tàu Petya. Nguồn ảnh: QPVN.


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## Goku

Viet said:


> Hunting submarine: dropping torpedo SET-40UE from a Ka-28 heli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Và theo những hình ảnh có được, Ka-28 của Lữ đoàn 954 đã triển khai ít nhất 2 hai phao định vị thủy âm (có thể là loại RGB-NM-1) hỗ trợ cho tàu Petya xác định và tiêu diệt “tàu ngầm” đối phương bên dưới mặt nước bằng ngư lôi SET-40UE, vũ khí chống ngầm chính trên các tàu Petya. Nguồn ảnh: QPVN.


Do u guys have a ship building industry? Like for your Navy?? Till you can produce /buy big naval ships , Viet Navy can concentrate on inducting Fast attack aircrafts in huge numbers. Invest more in coastal defences.


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## Viet

Goku said:


> Do u guys have a ship building industry? Like for your Navy?? Till you can produce /buy big naval ships , Viet Navy can concentrate on inducting Fast attack aircrafts in huge numbers. Invest more in coastal defences.


yes small vessels such as

gunship TT400 class










Lighting class attack vessel

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## Viet

T90S on display

the T90 tank army would be most likely deployed on the northern front.


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## Viet

Su30 on patrol 





















Night patrol


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> The Gepard offers stealth. Ok at least a bit, while Hamilton is a white elephant that waits to be hit. Ha ha.
> 
> I wish we can make warships like making missiles and ammunitions. Because we have 100 ships, we can mount weapons onboard very quick: fresh from ammunitions factory, fire and heat resistant B41 anti tank missile.


Hamilton is a very good patrol ship in the Ocean. VN nid to patrol the Ocean now, just just around our coast.

See anything special bro??

------

1/29/2020 Indonesian Navy #TNIAL CN-235 220 MPA spotted several CCG ships and what appeared to be a #PLAN Jiangkai II-Class Frigate operating in Indonesia EEZ in North #Natuna Sea with its transponder turned off













Diesen Thread anzeigen
https://mobile.twitter.com/jatosint?lang=de
PLAN 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indo...egal-fishing-by-chinese-vessels.648064/page-6


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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Hamilton is a very good patrol ship in the Ocean. VN nid to patrol the Ocean now, just just around our coast.
> 
> See anything special bro??
> 
> ------
> 
> 1/29/2020 Indonesian Navy #TNIAL CN-235 220 MPA spotted several CCG ships and what appeared to be a #PLAN Jiangkai II-Class Frigate operating in Indonesia EEZ in North #Natuna Sea with its transponder turned off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diesen Thread anzeigen
> https://mobile.twitter.com/jatosint?lang=de
> PLAN
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indo...egal-fishing-by-chinese-vessels.648064/page-6


Turning off transponder is a nasty move. I am not sure whether or not to thank the wuhan virus, because of this small animal the peaceful rise is stalling.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Turning off transponder is a nasty move. I am not sure whether or not to thank the wuhan virus, because of this small animal the peaceful rise is stalling.


Yeah.and the special in 4 pictures is that the last guard ship "patrolling" wt CN ships is VN ship, thats why we nid Halmiton for long day patrol 
--------





JATOSINT

@Jatosint
·
3. Feb.

Some corrections The ship in the last pic is a Vietnamese Coast Guard (VCG) ship which, according to TNI, 'fencing' at Indonesia-Vietnam continental shelf boundary with 3 other VCG's ships with their transponder on


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## NEKONEKO

Viet said:


> I am not sure whether or not to thank the wuhan virus, because of this small animal the peaceful rise is stalling.


I don't think its okay to say something like that, regardless of what the Chinese military do and done.
Sure their aggressive rise is very concerning, but should not say something like that. Hundreds of people died.


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## MacanJawa

NEKONEKO said:


> I don't think its okay to say something like that, regardless of what the Chinese military do and done.
> Sure their aggressive rise is very concerning, but should not say something like that. Hundreds of people died.



Nope more like thousand died, no one know excact number


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## Viet

Cool! Chance to learn naval exercise from big bro Russia. Vietnam with one frigate #16 participating manouver in Vladivostok last summer.


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## TenLua

I know I talk a lot of shit about China, but I would never wish actual harm on any specific race of people. I'm old enough to see the individual and not the race. My shit talking is just that, and only that. My condolence to China.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Cool! Chance to learn naval exercise from big bro Russia. Vietnam with one frigate #16 participating manouver in Vladivostok last summer.


Nice, its time to take control of the whole SCS (east VN sea).next step, VN can co operate wt Russia to take control of the Ocean

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## Viet

No pain no gain


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## Viet

*Vietnam, Under Increasing Pressure From China, Mulls a Shift Into America’s Orbit*
Joshua Kurlantzick | Thursday, Jan. 30, 2020


In a major new defense white paper, its first in 10 years, Vietnam has begun signaling that it could abandon its long-standing foreign policy strategy of hedging between major powers like China and the United States and move more definitively into Washington’s orbit. These documents are generally full of turgid jargon, but this one, released late last year, is unusually blunt, with a warning to China about the consequences of stepping up its aggressive behavior toward Vietnam in the South China Sea.

Despite its potential policy significance, though, the defense paper has been overshadowed in Vietnam by the country’s domestic politics. The ruling Communist Party elites are already jockeying for position ahead of the next National Congress in January 2021, when the party will elect its slate of senior leaders. President Nguyen Phu Trong, who also serves as party general secretary, is in poor health and set to retire, and there is no clear front-runner to replace him. The outcome of this political infighting will likely play an important role in determining just how much Hanoi is willing to recalibrate its foreign policy.

*Get your FREE copy of our in-depth report on the U.S.-China Rivalry in the Trump Era.*

The defense paper clarifies the Vietnamese leadership’s current and future strategic thinking, including its military organization, its defense capabilities and its broader view of relationships with regional and global powers. In its three previous editions—in 1998, 2004 and 2009—Vietnam was much more cautious about antagonizing China, with which it has longstanding political and economic ties. The 2009 paper offered only positive assessments of Beijing, while remaining consistent with Hanoi’s careful approach to foreign policy, which it calls the “three nos”: no formal military alliances, no hosting of foreign military bases and no explicit alignment with any single outside actor.

The new white paper does not break fully from this doctrine, but it does make some frank assessments about rising tensions in Southeast Asia. In the words of Nguyen The Phuong, a research associate at Vietnam National University’s Center for International Studies, the paper “recognizes the region as a boiling cauldron where great powers compete for influence.” This is an accurate assessment of the South China Sea, in particular.

China comes in for frequent and scathing criticism. In a section about the South China Sea, for example, the paper notes that “unilateral actions, power-based coercion, violations of international law, militarization, change in the status quo, and infringement upon Vietnam’s sovereignty… have undermined the interests of nations concerned and threatened peace, stability, security, safety, and freedom of navigation and overflight in the region.” The culprit is not identified, but it is clear what country the passage is referring to, and in other places the paper directly names China.

Hanoi’s frustration is intensifying as Beijing becomes even more aggressive in the South China Sea. Last summer, China provoked a months-long confrontation in the strategic waterway when it sailed a geological survey ship into Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone near Vanguard Bank. As Beijing continues its extensive militarization of nearby bases, which includes military installations on reclaimed land, China’s ability to intimidate Vietnam and other nearby countries will only grow. Vietnamese leaders are finding it harder to ease bilateral tensions through the usual diplomatic channels, with China simply refusing to respond to Vietnamese entreaties at times. Anti-China sentiment among the Vietnamese population has also risen, as protests have erupted in recent years over China’s influence in the country and its bullying in the South China Sea, further complicating bilateral relations.

*The U.S. and Vietnam have already built close strategic ties, and Pentagon officials regard Hanoi as one of America’s most important emerging military partners.*

The defense paper, along with other speeches and writings by Vietnamese strategists, makes clear that China’s provocations are pushing Hanoi steadily away from the “three nos,” even if it is not ready to fully break from that doctrine. It may be evolving its strategy, though, to include a fourth “no” and one important hypothetical. The paper says that Vietnam “will not use force or threaten the use of force in international relations,” presumably unless attacked. But more importantly, it also suggests that although Hanoi is not ready for formal alliances, “depending on circumstances and specific conditions, Vietnam will consider developing necessary, appropriate defense and military relations with other countries.” This is a major statement that suggests Hanoi could ultimately jettison its previous foreign policy of hedging and tilt more clearly toward the U.S.

Washington would welcome such a move with open arms. The U.S. and Vietnam have already built close strategic ties, and Pentagon officials regard Hanoi as one of America’s most important emerging military partners. As The Diplomat’s Prashanth Parameswaran has noted, Vietnam has “one of the more capable militaries in Southeast Asia.” The Trump administration has increased so-called freedom of navigation patrols in the South China Sea to challenge China’s expansive maritime claims, and sent the first U.S. aircraft carrier to Vietnam since the Vietnam War, among other efforts to upgrade relations. Even Trump’s criticism of Vietnam on trade issues has not seriously damaged strategic ties.

The bilateral relationship has become even more important to Washington as other regional actors have drawn closer to China. Under President Rodrigo Duterte, the Philippines, a U.S. treaty ally, continues to pivot toward Beijing. This month, Duterte pushed forward major China-backed infrastructure projects despite national security concerns, including over a major new airport located near sensitive military facilities and the involvement of a Chinese state-owned company in the Philippine telecommunications sector.

Defense planners in Washington imagine Hanoi playing an even bigger role in American foreign policy in Asia, or what the Trump administration has branded as its “Indo-Pacific strategy.” That role could include more U.S. port calls to Vietnam, larger American defense aid packages, and perhaps Vietnam even joining the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, a loose security coalition the U.S. maintains with Japan, Australia and India. Vietnam’s new defense paper states that ships of foreign navies are welcome to visit Vietnamese ports—a signal to the U.S. as well as to other naval powers like India.

But Hanoi must also consider the diplomatic and economic fallout of aligning more closely with Washington. Vietnam maintains close economic ties with China, which is Hanoi’s largest two-way trading partner, and many Vietnamese officials are wary of scaring off Chinese investors. Some Vietnamese strategists also doubt that the U.S. would come to their country’s defense should a major conflict erupt in the South China Sea.

Whether the Vietnamese government acts on the tough language laid out by its defense strategists also depends on who ascends to the party leadership next year. Trong, the most powerful politician in Vietnam right now, is historically known for his ideological and personal links to China, even as Vietnam’s ties with the U.S. have continued to improve under his leadership. He reportedly favors Tran Quoc Vuong, the deputy general secretary, to succeed him. Vuong would likely represent continuity, but he has never held a top government post and is inexperienced in foreign policy, so he could be seen as weak in responding to Chinese aggression. Another candidate for the top leadership, Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc, may be more skeptical of China and supportive of warmer ties with Washington.

Trong has been the party chief since 2011, and the party gave him the additional role of president in 2018, when the previous officeholder, Tran Dai Quang, died from an illness. One key decision facing the party at next year’s congress is whether to permanently merge the two roles or, more likely, to separate them again. Combining them would mean stepping away from a longtime arrangement of sharing power among the “four pillars” of party chief, president, prime minister and chair of the National Assembly.

Whatever arrangement the party decides on, its new leaders will face some tough decisions on how to approach China. In the meantime, some in Hanoi may believe that it is unwise to push Beijing any further before first sorting out its domestic politics. But it may not have the luxury of waiting until 2021, should Beijing decide to provoke another standoff in regional waters.

_Joshua Kurlantzick is senior fellow for Southeast Asia at the Council on Foreign Relations._


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## sahureka2

Question:
Is Vietnam interested in buying the Russian trainer SR-10?
https://m.baomoi.com/sau-yak-130-vi...ay-huan-luyen-canh-nguoc-sr-10/c/34005493.epi


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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> Question:
> Is Vietnam interested in buying the Russian trainer SR-10?
> https://m.baomoi.com/sau-yak-130-vi...ay-huan-luyen-canh-nguoc-sr-10/c/34005493.epi


That is speculative, like many things Vietnam wants to acquire after the army chief Ngô Xuân Lịch went to Russia. We apparently need more hard core weapons to deter repeated chinese incursions and provocations.
Xi Jingping wants war.






© CC BY-SA 4.0 / MINISTRY OF DEFENCE OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION
Đại tướng Shoigu và Đại tướng Ngô Xuân Lịch

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## Viet

"In the next 5 years, Vietnam will not buy more submarines, but will continue to strengthen the number of surface warships. The Navy should be among the most potent naval force in Southeast Asia“, said Lieutenant General Phan Van Giang, Chief of General Staff.

I think strengthening the number of both submarines and surface warships is better, not just one of the branches.

pictures of last year visit of a coast guard ship to Japan (Yokohama)


















Mine sweeper in service

Sonya class







Yurka class

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## Viet

Tanks deployed in SE Asia armies with similar fire power as Vietnam‘s newest tank


Vietnam‘s T90S/SK












OplotM of Thailand







T72B1MS of Laos






Leopard 2SG of Singapore


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## Nilgiri

Dont know if it was posted earlier in thread:

*L&T to deliver first high-speed patrol boat to Vietnam in September*

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...t-to-vietnam-in-september/article30813056.ece

*Hanoi also wants Akash Surface-to-Air Systems and Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters*

The first high-speed patrol boat being built for Vietnam under the $100-million Line of Credit (LoC) will be delivered by September, said JD Patil, whole time Director & Senior Executive Vice-President defence & smart technologies, Larsen & Toubro. Hanoi is procuring 12 such boats for its border guard force under the LoC extended in September 2014.

“We should be delivering the first boat this September. Five boats will be built by L&T while the remaining will be built in Vietnam. We are trying to finish the boats by mid 2021,” Mr. Patil told _The Hindu_ on the sidelines of the Defexpo last week.

In 2016, India has extended another $500 million defence LoC to Vietnam and discussions are under way to identify the equipment. Defence sources said Vietnam has expressed interest in Akash Surface-to-Air Systems and Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters.

(rest at link)
===============

@Viet @Viva_Viet

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## Nike

Nilgiri said:


> Dont know if it was posted earlier in thread:
> 
> *L&T to deliver first high-speed patrol boat to Vietnam in September*
> 
> https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...t-to-vietnam-in-september/article30813056.ece
> 
> *Hanoi also wants Akash Surface-to-Air Systems and Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters*
> 
> The first high-speed patrol boat being built for Vietnam under the $100-million Line of Credit (LoC) will be delivered by September, said JD Patil, whole time Director & Senior Executive Vice-President defence & smart technologies, Larsen & Toubro. Hanoi is procuring 12 such boats for its border guard force under the LoC extended in September 2014.
> 
> “We should be delivering the first boat this September. Five boats will be built by L&T while the remaining will be built in Vietnam. We are trying to finish the boats by mid 2021,” Mr. Patil told _The Hindu_ on the sidelines of the Defexpo last week.
> 
> In 2016, India has extended another $500 million defence LoC to Vietnam and discussions are under way to identify the equipment. Defence sources said Vietnam has expressed interest in Akash Surface-to-Air Systems and Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters.
> 
> (rest at link)
> ===============
> 
> @Viet @Viva_Viet



Any pics for the design?


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## Nilgiri

Nike said:


> Any pics for the design?



https://defpost.com/lt-launches-pro...peed-patrol-vessels-for-vietnam-border-guard/






Let's see what it looks like in the end though.


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## Nike

Nilgiri said:


> https://defpost.com/lt-launches-pro...peed-patrol-vessels-for-vietnam-border-guard/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see what it looks like in the end though.



Vietnam already capable to build such boats though, even in the class of high end OPV. Wonder why they still ordered such basic patrol boats


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## Nilgiri

Nike said:


> Vietnam already capable to build such boats though, even in the class of high end OPV. Wonder why they still ordered such basic patrol boats



Probably order logs are full while they wait to develop more capacity. Its why India buys last tranche of russian frigates still though we make better ones domestically.


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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> Probably order logs are full while they wait to develop more capacity. Its why India buys last tranche of russian frigates still though we make better ones domestically.


Honestly we need big capital ships as destroyer and cruiser. Not small ones. Our enemy is unfortunately VERY BIG.



Nike said:


> Vietnam already capable to build such boats though, even in the class of high end OPV. Wonder why they still ordered such basic patrol boats


Unless we get access to technology the Navy would not order them in big number I think.

Other news

Lots of US weaponry in service

For instance

M578 rescue tank








From the z111 factory

Brandnew domestic improved Ak47 rifle with finder

more lethal

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## Nilgiri

Viet said:


> Honestly we need big capital ships as destroyer and cruiser. Not small ones. Our enemy is unfortunately VERY BIG.



Yes but need to grow economy more and military budget more. It takes money to buy, train, protect, network and operate bigger things.

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## Viet

Largest private weapons museum in Vietnam targets war history enthusiasts
By Quynh Tran

Travel | February 29, 2020 | 10:29 am GMT+7
*Thousands of weapons and war uniforms from around the world dating back centuries are on display at a museum in southern town Vung Tau.

*




74-year-old Robert Taylor from the U.K. first opened the museum in 2012 and closed it shortly after due to personal reasons. The museum opened again in 2016 at a new address on Tran Hung Dao Street in the beach town.

The French-designed building was built in 1912 and covers a total area of 1,500-square-meters.







The museum displays over 2,500 weapons and war uniforms from across the globe. The owner has classified them into different sections based on the period they were used.

It was the largest private museum of weaponry in Vietnam, according to the Vietnam Book of Records.








The war uniform section of the medival period covers Chinese dynasties like the Qin (ruling from 221 to 206 BC), Song (960-1279) and Qing (1636-1912).







Over 1,000 weapons including guns, swords and knives are housed at the museum.







This is the Greek falchion, dating back 2,000 years, and is one of the oldest weapons in the collection. It remains sharp and in good condition.







The longest of two Indian arquebuses made in the 18th century is three meters. Due to its weight of 14 kg, the gun can only be used as a cannon and has to be reloaded after each shot.







A pistol made in 1816 in a section specially focused on French firearms.







A Vietnamese cannon with dragon detail casted during the period of Khai Dinh, the 12th Nguyen Dynasty ruler (1916-1925).







Hand cannons used by ethnic tribes in northern Vietnam in the 14th and 15th centuries.







Uniforms and weaponry from World War II, the North Korean and Vietnam wars.







The M1919 machine gun was a popular weapon used in World War II, amongst others.







Tan, a visitor from Long An Province, said: "The museum is so diverse and detailed. The ancient Chinese uniforms are my favorite."

The museum opens everyday with an entrance fee of VND70,000 ($3) for adults and half the price for children under 12.

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## Viet

*How the North Vietnamese army modified a WW2 submachine gun for its war against the US*
Jon Guttman




The basis for the weapon was the Chinese Type 50, a blowback, open bolt submachine gun, but with its heat shield cut back three inches and faired into the barrel. (Photo from Historynet.com)

During its war with the French, the communist Viet Minh combined guerrilla warfare and improvisation with more conventional tactics made possible by smuggling large stocks of weaponry from the People’s Republic of China. The latter’s contribution included most of the artillery used in the 1954 siege of Dien Bien Phu and generous amounts of Type 50 submachine guns, Chinese copies of the simple but highly effective Soviet PPSh-41 of World War II.

After having to settle for only the northern part of the territory they regarded as their own in the Western-brokered peace that followed the ouster of the French from Indochina, the North Vietnamese set about preparing for their next move, the overthrow of the United States-backed government in South Vietnam and its incorporation into a united, communist Vietnam.

While the North Vietnamese did not have a full-fledged weapons industry, they did have the engineering capacity to create a submachine gun for the fight to come by combining elements of the Type 50 with those of the French MAT-49, large stocks of which they had also acquired in the course of their just-concluded conflict. The result was a distinctive looking weapon in its own right that, in classic Vietnamese style, involved more ingenuity than invention.

The basis for the weapon was the Chinese Type 50, a blowback, open bolt submachine gun, but with its heat shield cut back three inches and faired into the barrel. The muzzle compensator, designed to reduce barrel climb while firing fully automatic, was removed and a new foresight tap welded to the muzzle.








Firing the same 7.62x25mm round as the original PPSh-41, the M-50K, as the North Vietnamese SMG was designated, had a muzzle velocity of 1,600 feet per second, a rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute and an effective range of 100-150 feet. (Photo by Historynet.com)

The simple open leaf sight could be set for 100 to 200 meters. The wooden furniture and stock, which were vulnerable to rot in Indochina’s operating conditions, were removed and replaced with a wooden hand grip behind the trigger and an adjustable wire butt as used on the MAT-49, welded to either side of the gun. Ammunition was generally carried in a curved 35-round magazine, but the SMG was capable of accommodating the original Type 50’s circular 71-round drum if the wire butt stock was pulled fully back.

Firing the same 7.62x25mm round as the original PPSh-41, the M-50K, as the North Vietnamese SMG was designated, had a muzzle velocity of 1,600 feet per second, a rate of fire of 700 rounds per minute and an effective range of 100-150 feet.


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## Viet

A chinese poster here says design is worse than Syria rebels, it’s effective regardless.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> A chinese poster here says design is worse than Syria rebels, it’s effective regardless.


Once again, how is it effective when a mobile jeep can't do his job, hit and run because the driver has to get out to avoid the muzzle flash?


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## warzone

Jinri said:


> Once again, how is it effective when a mobile jeep can't do his job, hit and run because the driver has to get out to avoid the muzzle flash?




You think it’s a better idea to carry a heavy machine gun on your back ? You make the best with what you have. It's a low cost and effective for fire support. Even PLA use this, so go ask them if it's effective


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## IblinI

warzone said:


> You think it’s a better idea to carry a heavy machine gun on your back ? You make the best with what you have. It's a low cost and effective for support fire. Even PLA use this so go ask them if it's effective
> View attachment 610647


Spot the difference before we can carry on the conversation.


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## warzone

Jinri said:


> Spot the difference before we can carry on the conversation.


You tell me what huge difference... PLA doing a photo pose and VPA doing live fire exercice? (Haha I bet money that's what you was talking about but didn't notice because you think you too smart)...Please share your huge knowledge with us

There are plenty of pictures showing PLA using the same type of weapon systems, every armies in the world (PLA included) know it's cheap, effective and combat proven...Except you

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## gambit

Jinri said:


> Once again, how is it effective when a mobile jeep can't do his job, hit and run because the driver has to get out to avoid the muzzle flash?


There is nothing wrong with that configuration. But I doubt you are interested in finding out why. You are more interested in mocking the Viets than in genuine discussion.


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## Viet

Diplomacy
*How Vietnam is using fishing trawlers to keep an eye on China’s military*

Vietnamese boats frequently make forays into Chinese territorial waters near Hainan, home to a number of key armed forces bases, a think tank says
While many might come for the fish, some also stay to spy, analyst says
Topic | South China Sea





Liu Zhen

Published: 6:00pm, 23 Feb, 2020


Vietnamese trawlers – some with militia on board – are intruding repeatedly into Chinese waters near the southern island of Hainan as Hanoi steps up its presence in the South China Sea, according to Chinese diplomatic observers.

At least 34 Vietnamese boats sailed near Hainan between January 19 and January 31, with most of the vessels going within the 12 nautical mile territorial limit, the South China Sea Strategic Situation Probing Initiative, a think tank at Peking University, said in a report released this month.

Thirty of the vessels gathered “peculiarly” on the southeast side of the island, particularly near the coast of Sanya and Lingshui, the think tank said, citing automatic identification system data used for maritime monitoring.

Sanya, a city on the island, is a major base for the Chinese navy’s South Sea Fleet and home port of the aircraft carrier Shandong, while the air force uses Lingshui as a base to project power over the South China Sea.

“As it is known to all, there are a number of Chinese naval and airbases,” the think tank said in the report. “It would make no economic sense for Vietnamese fishermen to go the extra distance to the east side of Hainan if simply to fish.”

Malaysia, China and Vietnam in ‘dangerous, ongoing game of chicken’ in South China Sea


China and Vietnam have large overlapping claims in the resource-rich South China Sea but China’s sovereignty over Hainan is not disputed, making the Vietnamese fishing activities in the area illegal, according to the think tank.

Chen Xiangmiao, an associate researcher at the National Institute for South China Sea Studies in Hainan, said Vietnamese vessels made more than 10,000 such intrusions a year and the forays had continued for at least a decade.

“In my observation, they do come for the fishing resources, but at the same time we do need to be aware that Vietnam has its own maritime militia on board fishing trawlers, which does not get much international attention,” Chen said.

Although the military bases had their own security zones, information about the Chinese armed forces such as logistics operations, equipment details, and movements by warships and aircraft, could still be gleaned from a distance, he said.

“In fact some of the Vietnamese vessels going there probably are just purely spy boats,” Chen said.

He said these particular boats were usually small and hard to identify in a big fleet.

“Even with the help of satellite identification systems, they are often too small and dispersed for Chinese law enforcers to catch and expel,” Chen said.

Xi Jinping says China, Vietnam should resolve their disputes ‘properly’


Hu Bo, director of the Centre for Maritime Strategy Studies at Peking University, said China had held back on using force so as not to destabilise relationships with rival South China Sea claimants.

In the past, tensions have risen in the region as the Chinese coastguard has sunk fishing boats from other nations, including Vietnam and the Philippines.

“But if the aggression escalates it would be hard to tell [what will happen] in the future,” Hu said.

China has deployed its own maritime militia – fishing boats that work with the military – in the South China Sea, engaging in confrontations with US military vessels in a number of high-profile incidents.

So much so that US Navy commander Admiral John Richardson told his Chinese counterpart Admiral Shen Jinlong last year that Washington would treat the Chinese maritime militia the same as the People’s Liberation Army Navy.


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## Viet

Surprise visit

US aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt is scheduled to make Danang port call tomorrow.







.

Incredible firepower

The commander of US Pacific fleet, John C. Aquilino, will come too for a tea.

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## Indos

@Viva_Viet 

Halo bro, is Pakistan Defense Forum banned in Vietnam ? Seems to me that this thread doesnt have much viewer even since 2013, the situation is much different with Indonesian thread which is developing and now has many silent reader that most probably all of them comes from Indonesia. Or is it because of the use of English ?

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## Viva_Viet

Indos said:


> @Viva_Viet
> 
> Halo bro, is Pakistan Defense Forum banned in Vietnam ? Seems to me that this thread doesnt have much viewer even since 2013, the situation is much different with Indonesian thread which is developing and now has many silent reader that most probably all of them comes from Indonesia. Or is it because of the use of English ?


no, dpf is not banned. Just bcs VNese r very bad at typing & speaking English. 

not mentioning Vnese like spending time on Facebook, youtube and online film more than discusing on the forum.watching film is more relax while arguing wt low IQ red guard Cnese here is very tired

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## Indos

Viva_Viet said:


> no, dpf is not banned. Just bcs VNese r very bad at typing & speaking English.
> 
> not mentioning Vnese like spending time on Facebook, youtube and online film more than discusing on the forum.watching film is more relax while arguing wt low IQ red guard Cnese here is very tired


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## Viet

For the first time ever, the army conduct a drill to combat non traditional enemies - a virus. Scenario: 30,000 infections within military units.


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## Viet

US aircraft carrier the USS Theodore Roosevelt off Da Nang's coast.

where are the other warships from the strike group? 1 cruiser and 6 destroyers?

the German media comment on the event: US and Vietnam show unity in face of chinese threat.







https://m.focus.de/finanzen/boerse/...hlossenheit-gegenueber-china_id_11731417.html

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## Viet

Cruiser Bunker Hill








Vietnamese and US officials in front of the guided-missile cruiser USS Bunker Hill (CG52) (Photo: QDND)


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## Viet

Nice

China considers US carrier visit to Vietnam as provocation that will not go unanswered.

it shows we do the right thing.


https://de.sputniknews.com/amp/politik/20200305326553698-china-us-flugzeugtraeger-vietnam/

*China wird Präsenz von US-Flugzeugträger in Vietnam nicht unbeantwortet lassen*


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## Viet

*US aircraft carrier visiting Vietnam is armed to the teeth*


By Nguyen Dong

News | March 7, 2020 | 







The giant vessel arrived in Vietnam’s central city of Da Nang for a five-day visit on Thursday, the second U.S. aircraft carrier to visit Vietnam in two years.







It docked at Tien Sa Port along with cruiser USS Bunker Hill and a destroyer. The carrier has 5,000 crew members while the other two have a total of 1,500.

The Theodore Roosevelt is a Nimitz-class nuclear-powered carrier, 1,092 feet (332.8 meters) long and with a displacement of 117,000 tons and capacity to carry 90 aircraft.







Fighter aircraft on the USS Theodore Roosevelt. The aircraft carrier is armed with three Phalanx CIWS, two RIM-7 Sea Sparrow weapons systems against airborne threats such as anti-ship missiles and aircraft, and two RIM-116 infrared surface-to-air missiles.







There are four squadrons of the Boeing F/A-18E and F/A-18F Super Hornet twin-engine, multirole fighter aircraft, one squadron of Boeing EA-18G Growler electronic warfare aircraft, two squadrons of Sikorsky SH-60/MH-60 Seahawk multi-mission helicopters, one squadron of Northrop Grumman E-2 Hawkeye, an early warning aircraft, and one squadron of Grumman C-2 Greyhound cargo aircraft.







The Bunker Hill is a Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser, 567 feet (173 meters) long and with a displacement of 9,300 tons.







The cruiser is equipped with a number of modern weapons, including the Mark 54 Lightweight Torpedo, a standard 12.75 inch (324 mm) anti-submarine warfare torpedo; 122 vertical launching system, an advanced system for holding and firing missiles on mobile naval platforms, such as surface ships and submarines; and two 12.7 cm/50 Type 3 naval guns.







Its anti-aircraft and anti-submarine artillery systems are at various locations on the deck. In the middle are two close-in weapon systems, a point-defense weapon system for detecting and destroying short-range incoming missiles and aircraft.







On two sides are M242 Bushmaster chain guns, a 25 mm single-barrel chain-driven autocannon. The cannons are covered in canvas on shore.







The cruiser is equipped with two MH-60R Seahawk helicopters and the helipad is at the stern .







Cannons and torpedoes at the stern of the USS Bunker Hill.







The visit by the Theodore Roosevelt take place at a time when Vietnam and the U.S. are commemorating 25 years of diplomatic relations.

Two years ago the USS Carl Vinson visited Da Nang, marking a milestone in ties between the two former enemies.

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## Viet

Tien Sa Port

the Crew of the carrier, cruiser and destroyer take a rest.


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## Viet

Tàu khảo sát hải dương học HMS Enterprise (H88) thuộc Hải quân Hoàng gia Anh đã cập cảng Hải Phòng, Việt Nam trong chuyến thăm hữu nghị.





Đại diện quân đội và hải quân nhân dân Việt Nam cùng Đại sứ quán Anh tại Hà Nội và chính quyền thành phố Hải Phòng đã ra cảng đón tàu và thủy thủ đoàn cập cảng Hải Phòng.





Tàu khảo sát Enterprise sẽ thăm xã giao Hải Phòng từ ngày 19-25/2. Chuyến thăm nhằm tăng cường hơn nữa các hoạt động hợp tác quốc phòng giữa quân đội hai nước.





Chuyến thăm của tàu diễn ra vào năm Vương quốc Anh và Việt Nam kỷ niệm 10 năm thiết lập quan hệ đối tác chiến lược, trong đó hợp tác an ninh quốc phòng là một trong những lĩnh vực quan trọng.


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## Viet

Vietnam sends military observers to monitor the large scale military exercise of combined armed forces China/Cambodian.

The manouver “Golden Dragon 2020” takes place 150km southern Phnom Penh.


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## Nilgiri

@Viet nice pics bro. Hope you and yours are staying safe.

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## Viet

Nilgiri said:


> @Viet nice pics bro. Hope you and yours are staying safe.


What can I say, a tsunami is coming.

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## Viet

Setting up the third military field hospital for the United Nations

Additional 70 military medical staff on the way to South Sudan




















Not funny

South Sudanese government asked RoK to stop sending soldiers to the country due to the fear of coronavirus. Vietnam probably has to fill the gap.




Lực lượng gìn giữ hòa bình của Hàn Quốc tại Nam Sudan. (Nguồn: AP)


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## Viet

Too many legacy boats
Too few modern vessels

USSR Osa class

Quad P15 antiship missiles












































New improved anti tank rockets

9M14


















AT3 rocket

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## Viet

Oops

some sailors of USS Theodor Roosevelt that were among visitors to Vietnam lately are infected by coronavirus.






Tàu sân bay USS Theodore Roosevelt cùng tuần dương hạm USS Bunker Hill trên Thái Bình Dương, tháng 2.2020
Hải quân Mỹ






Máy bay đậu trên mặt boong tàu sân bay Theodore Roosevlet







Siêu tàu hiện ra sừng sừng như một tòa nhà khổng lồ giữa biển Đà Nẵng







Quốc kỳ Việt Nam – Mỹ được treo trang trọng trong thân tàu sân bay Theodore Roosevelt nhân chuyến thăm Việt Nam

_


















_







Hai chiếc C2A của hải quân Mỹ tại sân bay Đà Nẵng

Đậu Tiến Đạt




Lực lượng biên phòng đo thân nhiệt người tham gia đón tàu





CG-52 được xem là một trong những tàu tuần dương hiện đại nhất

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## Viet

“Made in Vietnam” assault rifles Gk1 and Gk3

based on Israeli Ace assault rifles

Gk1







Gk3














Bomb run

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## Viet

breaking news

China first aircraft carrier burning

seems the ship is damaged beyond repair.

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## IblinI

Viet said:


> breaking news
> 
> China first aircraft carrier burning
> 
> seems the ship is damaged beyond repair.


Mr genius, firstly it is not an aircraft carrier, secondly, it was mostly the smoke, would be delayed for weeks only.


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## Viet

Jinri said:


> Mr genius, firstly it is not an aircraft carrier, secondly, it was mostly the smoke, would be delayed for weeks only.


Ok my mistake

my best wishes to the crew of the vessel


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Ok my mistake
> 
> my best wishes to the crew of the vessel


No worry, all workers are safe.


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## xuxu1457

by the way, as US said, did US carrier got covid19 from Vietnam?


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## flowerfan2020

Viet said:


> breaking news
> 
> China first aircraft carrier burning
> 
> seems the ship is damaged beyond repair.


China is building at least 8 of these big gifts to Vietnam at South China Sea.


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## Viet

xuxu1457 said:


> by the way, as US said, did US carrier got covid19 from Vietnam?


We don’t know.
When the US carrier made the visit on March 4, we just had few infections.
Vietnam began very early with tightening the screw when there was report out Wuhan with unknown infections. On 7 January, thing began to accelerate, Vietnam began with visitor screening, quarantine and evacuation of Vietnamese out of China.
So I think it’s extremely unlikely that the carrier crew got infected in Danang.








https://ampe.vnexpress.net/news/new...itors-amid-china-pneumonia-scare-4038669.html


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> We don’t know.
> When the US carrier made the visit on March 4, we just had few infections.
> Vietnam began very early with tightening the screw when there was report out Wuhan with unknown infections. On 7 January, thing began to accelerate, Vietnam began with visitor screening, quarantine and evacuation of Vietnamese out of China.
> So I think it’s extremely unlikely that the carrier crew got infected in Danang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://ampe.vnexpress.net/news/new...itors-amid-china-pneumonia-scare-4038669.html


 Still unclear why



*UPDATED: 8 Sailors on USS Theodore Roosevelt Have COVID-19; Port Calls Canceled as Navy Investigates Outbreak*
By: Megan Eckstein
March 24, 2020 4:23 PM • Updated: March 26, 2020 8:30 AM




A U.S. Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet assigned to the Tomcatters of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 31 flies above the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71), Feb. 27, 2020. US Navy photo.

_This post has been updated to reflect that additional COVID-19 cases have been discovered aboard USS _Theodore Roosevelt_ (CVN-71)_

THE PENTAGON – Three sailors aboard USS _Theodore Roosevelt _(CVN-71) have tested positive for COVID-19 and are being flown off the aircraft carrier to a Defense Department hospital in the Pacific region. These are the first cases of sailors on a deployed ship testing positive for the virus.

Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly said the three were being removed from the ship as soon as possible after the positive diagnosis, and any sailors who have been in contact with them recently are being put in quarantine.

“This is an example of our ability to keep our ships deployed at sea underway even with active COVID-19 cases,” Modly said.

On Wednesday, _The Wall Street Journal_ reported five additional cases had been discovered on the aircraft carrier.

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Mike Gilday declined to say where the carrier was now or what DoD hospital the sailors were flown to. Recent images show the carrier in the Philippine Sea, where it conducted at-sea exercises with Marine Corps and Air Force assets last week.

While an aircraft carrier is the most spacious ship in the fleet, more than 5,000 sailors are packed into the ship.

The Navy is still investigating how the outbreak on _Theodore Roosevelt_ could have started. Gilday said it was unclear where the virus came from – the ship made a port call to Da Nang, Vietnam, 15 days ago,* but aircraft have been coming and going with people and supplies.*

“In the case of the carrier, she was last in port 15 days ago, but I think it would be difficult to tie down these active cases to that particular port visit. *We’ve had aircraft flying to and from the ship, and so we just don’t want to say it was that particular port visit*. We took great precautions when that crew came back from that shore period to do enhanced medical screening of the crew,” Gilday told reporters today in the Pentagon.
“We are moving very quickly to isolate those cases. In those cases, those sailors are running a temperature and they have some body aches, but we wouldn’t necessarily characterize them as requiring hospitalization. But they’re positive, those three cases. So we are rapidly removing them from the ship, and we are understanding who they came in contact with over the recent days and weeks so we can begin to take a look inside the ship, how we can isolate and contain as best we can.”





Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class Maria F. Potts-Szoke, assigned to Naval Medical Research Center, prepares a sample for investigational analysis in Naval Medical Research Center’s mobile laboratory aboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71), March 19, 2020. US Navy photo.

Gilday added that the carrier has the capability to test for influenza to rule that in or out as a diagnosis. The carrier also has the ability to swab for COVID-19 and fly the swabs off the ship to the nearest DoD medical facility for testing, which takes just four to six hours after the swab arrives.

U.S. Indo-Pacific Command on Feb. 27 instituted a policy of requiring 14 days between port visits, to ensure U.S. Navy ships weren’t spreading the disease around the Pacific. It was around that time that INDO-PACOM Commander Adm. Phil Davidson allowed _Theodore Roosevelt _to proceed with its planned port visit to Da Nang, which was significant given that Vietnam only allows one warship per country to visit its ports each year.

“At that particular time when the decision was made in late February or early March to pull the ship into Da Nang, which is on the central coast – at that time there were only 16 positive cases in Vietnam, and those were well to the north, all isolated in Hanoi. And so this is a very risk-informed decision by actually the INDO-PACOM commander Adm. Davidson on whether or not we would proceed with that port visit,” Gilday said.
“After the port visit we conducted a 14-day isolation period; we just hit day 15” today, the CNO added.

He told USNI News that the Navy is taking a hard look at how the sailors on _Theodore Roosevelt _could have contracted the disease so that the sea service can implement best practices for the 100 other ships deployed around the globe today.

“In each of these cases, whenever we have a positive on any ship or in any unit, we’re doing the forensics on each one of those cases and trying to understand what kind of best practices or the do’s and the don’t’s we can quickly promulgate fleet-wide. So I don’t have a better answer for you other than to say we’re on it,” he told USNI News during the question and answer session.

Still, port visits have been canceled, with deployed ships only being allowed to pull into a port if they need repairs or resupply. Even then, crew are restricted to the pier and cannot venture out into the port city.




Ohio-class ballistic-missile submarine USS Tennessee (SSBN-734) gold crew returns to its homeport at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay, Georgia, following a strategic deterrence patrol on Jan. 11, 2020. US Navy Photo

Gilday said the service is taking particular care with the crews on its ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs), which conduct nuclear deterrence missions globally. Those crews are seeing enhanced medical screenings before heading out to sea for training or deployment, including a 14-day period of restricted movement to monitor for any emerging symptoms.

The submarine force has seen zero cases of COVID-19, Gilday made clear.

“We have not missed any operational commitments in the Navy at this time. The impacts to readiness force-wide have been low, but that’s not to say that this couldn’t spike at any given time,” the admiral said.
“We continue to watch this very closely, every ship, squadron and submarine.”

All told, the Navy has 86 active cases of COVID-19 as of today: 57 are Navy military personnel, 13 are Navy civilians, 11 are dependents and five are Navy contractors, Modly said during the event.

Despite those cases, “our ships are sailing, our planes are flying, and training is still happening to safeguard our U.S. national interests and those of all our allies and partners around the world.”
https://news.usni.org/2020/03/24/3-...-calls-canceled-as-navy-investigates-outbreak


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## warzone

flowerfan2020 said:


> China is building at least 8 of these big gifts to Vietnam at South China Sea.



So scary, we are all scare to death in Viet Nam...8 for Viet Nam, haha!! How many for USA, for Japan and for Taiwan???… 100 aircraft carriers, maybe 200? You think China and big mouth PLA are producing aircraft carriers like manufacturing TV ?? Start to build them first and then try to learn how it work before you open your big mouth, maybe in a couple decades!!! Those aircraft carriers are just big fat targets waiting to get hit with missiles and subs.


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## IblinI

warzone said:


> So scary, we are all scare to death in Viet Nam...8 for Viet Nam, haha!! How many for USA, for Japan and for Taiwan???… 100 aircraft carriers, maybe 200? You think China and big mouth PLA are producing aircraft carriers like manufacturing TV ?? Start to build them first and then try to learn how it work before you open your big mouth, maybe in a couple decades!!! Those aircraft carriers are just big fat targets waiting to get hit with missiles and subs.


Let me put you in your place, this is what your defense industry is capable of, indeed small and lean.





Overkill but anyway

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## Viet

Jinri said:


> Let me put you in your place, this is what your defense industry is capable of, indeed small and lean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overkill but anyway


Ok your ship looks nicer.

I hope the PLA men will fight fair.

not like the Han army that ran naked against Viet women battalions in previous encounters.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Ok your ship looks nicer.
> 
> I hope the PLA men will fight fair.
> 
> not like the Han army that ran naked against Viet women battalions in previous encounters.


Almost forget, sorry to say that the engine for this little boat of yours are most probably foreign made.

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## Viet

Jinri said:


> Almost forget, sorry to say that the engine for this little boat of yours are most probably foreign made.


It’s imported.

I hope the PLA will not be encouraged to start a war after they read this comment.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> It’s imported.
> 
> I hope the PLA will not be encouraged to start a war after they read this comment.


Don't worry, if you guys poured enough money to the defense industry, you would rival NK in 20 years,and unlike you, mr important. I am not the one behind the desk.

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## Viet

Jinri said:


> Don't worry, if you guys poured enough money to the defense industry, you would rival NK in 20 years,and unlike you, mr important. I am not the one behind the desk.


You are clueless. There is a saying in Vietnam: a good man is not a soldier. Unless there is a war, military is the last thing people in Vietnam have in mind. The chance for militarization in peacetime is close to zero. Vietnam is very far from a military driven society. Vietnamese hate militarism. We are not NK or Iran that spend most of resources on military.

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## Viet

*How The 1979 China-Vietnam War Forever Reshaped Asia*






April 15, 2020 Topic: Security Blog Brand: The Buzz Tags: ChinaVietnamMilitaryTechnologyWorldHistory
The region was never the same again.

by Sebastien Roblin




Here's What You Need To Remember: Party Chairman Deng Xiaoping used the PLA’s demonstrated shortcomings to consolidate political power and begin a modernization effort, downsizing it by over a million personnel to improve its quality. Thus, the Chinese war intended to “teach Vietnam a lesson” ended up being instructive both politically and operationally, though only at a terrible cost in human life for both sides.

At 5 AM on February 17, 1979, a massive artillery bombardment rippled across Vietnam’s mountainous northern border with China. Waves of soldiers from the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) swarmed towards the startled Vietnamese soldiers hunkered down in border forts, bunkers and caves. Some outposts, taken by surprise, fell; others repelled the attacks with withering small arms and artillery fire.

However, east of the Vietnamese village of Dong Khe, sitting astride the Highway 4A connecting the key cities of Lang Son and Cao Bang, the diesel motors of two battalions of Type 59 tanks rumbled. Though small units of PLA tanks had sparred with UN forces during the Korean War, this would be their first large-scale engagement.

By the late 1970s, Communist factions involved in Southeast Asia had successfully overthrown Western-backed governments in Saigon, Vientiane and Phnom Penh. But like close friends torn apart by long-festering resentments and mistrust, the former allies soon turned against each other.

The Cambodian Khmer Rouge feared a renewal of historical Vietnamese domination. The Vietnamese harbored a similar fear of China. And the Chinese were locked in a bitter ideological feud with the Soviets. Thus in November 1978, Moscow signed a mutual defense treaty with Hanoi.

Two months later, after years of bloody cross-border attacks, Vietnam overthrew the genocidal Chinese-backed Khmer Rouge regime in a lightning military campaign. China was furious—and mobilized 600,000 troops to southern China’s Yunnan and Guangxi provinces.

On February 15, Beijing announced it would launch a “defensive counterattack” to punish Vietnam. It also mobilized troops on its northern border with the Soviet Union.

Nine corps-sized armies averaging three divisions each were committed to the punitive campaign, which had three main objectives. On the western flank, three PLA armies would focus on capturing the border city of Lao Cai, defended by two PVA divisions. Meanwhile, six armies in the east under General Xu Shiyou would advance on Cao Bang and Lang Son—the latter astride a highway leading directly to Hanoi. This front was defended by four Vietnamese divisions.

Overall, the PLA had local numerical superiority of between three and six to 1 in its favor. Most of Vietnam’s elite regular units remained engaged in Cambodia, including its extensive inventory of Chinese, Soviet and U.S. tanks and jets.

The PLA’s infantry-heavy force was supported by roughly 600 tanks in six regiments for the campaign, plus a seventh held in reserve according to Nikolai Ezhov, a documenter of historical PLA organization. On the eastern Lang Son front, the 43rd Army’s tank regiment operated eighty Type 59 tanks, a Chinese clone of the Soviet T-54 tank with a lumpy cast-steel turret. Though outdated, the 40-ton Type 59 remained tough and reliable, with a rifled 100-millimeter gun and between 100 and 200-millimeters of sloped frontal armor.

However, the mainstay were four regiments of lighter twenty-three-ton Type 62 light tanks, a downsized Type 59 with a 85-millimeter gun designed for operations around Southern China’s rugged mountains, marshy rice paddies and subtropical forests. Yet with no more than 35- to 50-millimeters of frontal armor, the Type 62 was vulnerable to even light armor-piercing weapons. The regiments, counting 107 tanks each, included organic tank regiments of the 42nd and 43rd and 55th armies in the east and an independent unit near Lao Cai.

A regiment of eighty similarly vulnerable Type 63 amphibious tanks (based on the Soviet PT-76) also saw action, suffering heavy losses, including its commanding officer.

Deng Xiaoping forbade committing Chinese aviation to battle against Vietnam’s battle-tested air defenses, and Chinese troops were forbidden from moving beyond the air-defense umbrella of Chinese SAMs. Thus, neither side’s warplanes saw battle.

Breakthrough at Dong Khe

A Chinese unit history describes how the two 43rd Army tank battalions east of Dong Khe were accompanied by a battalion of infantry and a platoon of engineers. However, the PLA forces almost entirely lacked mechanized transport, with fewer than 100 Type 63 armored personnel carriers. Xiaoming Zhang describes the drastic works-around adopted in _Deng Xiaoping’s Long War:_

“Such were the crudities of operational art that PLA infantry fastened themselves to the top of tanks with ropes so that they would not fall off. Accordingly, when they came under enemy fire, they were effectively bound in place...”

As the tanks barreled down a crude canyon, their riders were raked by small arms fire from above. The tanks rumbled on, ramming through an improved roadblock made of boulders. However, when a Type 59 attempted to cross the River Bang, a wooden bridge collapsed beneath it.

Instead, Chinese tankers forded the river assisted by engineers, as mortar and anti-tank rounds rained down from overlooking heights. Several tanks bogged down during the crossing, and another was picked off by an anti-tank missile.

After losing fifteen tanks, the survivors forged through the bombardment and at 10 AM rolled into an undefended Dong Keh. The Vietnamese had not expected enemy forces to penetrate down the mountainous, 18.5-mile long road so fast. But meanwhile, the Vietnamese opened a dam to flood the ford.

Long Slog at Cao Bang and Lang Son

The capture of Dong Khe was only one of dozens of targets assaulted by the PLA to mixed success on February 17. But because most PLA units could only advance at walking speed, they couldn’t rapidly exploit its breakthroughs.

The PLA also lacked a modern communications and supply systems, relying on human or animal labor to carry a third of its supplies, and hand and signal flags for tactical communications. Deficient training and educations due to the near-collapse of schooling during the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976) was also an issue. Peasants hastily levied for the conflict often received only one or two practice sessions with live ammunition and grenades prior to being sent into combat. One army hastily implemented a policy of teaching three soldiers out of every company how to read maps.

When PLA tanks pushed forward without infantry support, they were ambushed at short range by Vietnamese troops with rocket-propelled grenades, or picked off from afar by medium-range recoilless rifles and long-range Sagger anti-tank guided missiles. Dozens of lightly armored Type 62 tanks were lost advancing on Cao Bang. Rapid-firing 37-millimeter flak guns of a Vietnamese air defense regiment reportedly ravaged another PLA tank unit.

Meanwhile, Vietnamese militias and special operatives launched deadly raids and ambushes on PLA supply lines, and rear-area night attacks intended to trick Chinese artillery into firing on their own troops. According to legend, a lone Vietnamese female sniper managed to kill eight PLA tank commanders before being captured and crushed under a tank by vengeful soldiers.

Though scheduled for capture in two days, Cao Bang finally fell on February 25. PLA troops then focused east on the more valuable prize of Lang Son, defended by the elite Vietnamese 3rd Gold Star division.

Here the PLA tankers encountered Vietnamese tankers in T-34/85 tanks of the 407th Tank Regiment. The dated but reliable World War II-era medium tanks actually had a fighting chance against the lightly-armored Type 62s, but the Chinese claimed fourteen T-34s for no loss and captured three, one of which is now displayed in a Chinese museum. In another encounter, a PLA 122-millimeter howitzer battalion reported knocking out six T-34s at long range.

On March 2, Chinese forces secured half of Lang Son. Edward Chen in “China’s War With Vietnam, 1979” described the final push:

_The final assault was launched on March 3 preceded by the seizure of Hill 303. Tanks led the infantry in a head-long rush for only ten minutes; then the hill was captured. Shortly after, the Vietnamese artillery on Khua Ma Son mountain heavily bombarded the PLA on that hill. The Chinese tanks once again coordinated with the infantry. After fierce exchanges of fire power, mine explosion, and tunnel blowing-up, the six Vietnamese firing positions on the mountain were destroyed one after another. Finally rockets fired from the mountain's top signaled its capture._

PLA forces now held a highway leading directly to Hanoi eighty miles away. On March 5, Vietnam announced a general mobilization of the population, and began airlifting units out of Cambodia. Simultaneously, Beijing announced its campaign had concluded and began withdrawing troops.

Fighting nonetheless continued eleven more days during the withdrawal. PLA troops reportedly left regional housing and infrastructure in ruins to inflict maximum “punishment” on Vietnam. Vietnam claimed ten thousand civilians were killed by PLA troops.

And the Soviets? Moscow decided direct military intervention was too risky and logistically impractical, though it did assist Vietnam with air transport, naval communications and arms shipments. China had demonstrated its regional primacy, but Moscow and Hanoi only drew closer.

Vietnamese forces also remained in Cambodia. Over the next decade China, Thailand and the United States helped the Khmer Rouge and other groups wage a bloody anti-Vietnamese insurgency. In this context, Chinese tanks saw combat a final time during the Battle of Vi Xuyen in 1984 when PLA troops assaulted two Vietnamese-held mountains on the border.

“Victory”?

Beijing and Hanoi released wildly contradictory claims regarding the casualties in the war. External studies estimate around 26,000 PLA killed in action and around 30 to 35,000 Vietnamese troops.

The PLA officially records total hull loss of 44 tanks, while Vietnam claimed to have knocked out 134 tanks at Cao Bang, 76 at Lang Son and 66 tanks at Lao Cai. Other sources claim hundreds, or 50 to 90 percent, of Chinese tanks were damaged or destroyed. The higher numbers likely better reflect combat losses, though many may have been recovered and repaired.

The Sino-Vietnamese war is generally perceived in the West as humiliating for Chinese forces. Undeniably, the PLA sustained heavy casualties, took longer than it expected to achieve its objectives, and demonstrated the obsolesces of its equipment, doctrine and organization. However, it also inflicted greater casualties on a determined enemy benefiting from fortifications and favorable terrain.

Party Chairman Deng Xiaoping used the PLA’s demonstrated shortcomings to consolidate political power and begin a modernization effort, downsizing it by over a million personnel to improve its quality. The PLA also began upgrading Type 62s with additional armor and developing more survivabletank designs.

Thus, the Chinese war intended to “teach Vietnam a lesson” ended up being instructive both politically and operationally, though only at a terrible cost in human life for both sides.

_Sébastien Roblin holds a Master’s Degree in Conflict Resolution from Georgetown University and served as a university instructor for the Peace Corps in China. He has also worked in education, editing, and refugee resettlement in France and the United States. He currently writes on security and military history for War Is Boring. This article first appeared last year._

_Image: Reuters._


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> You are clueless. There is a saying in Vietnam: a good man is not a soldier. Unless there is a war, military is the last thing people in Vietnam have in mind. The chance for militarization in peacetime is close to zero. Vietnam is very far from a military driven society. Vietnamese hate militarism. We are not NK or Iran that spend most of resources on military.


you are more clueless than anyone to not trust your government and army to spilled out such nonsense at a age of 40, invest in defense industry means militarization.
Looks like vietnam needs some clerk and accountant.
The stupid man is looking for an excuse for not being able to built an engine for even a little boat and suger coating it as "peace loving people".
Anyway, never expected more from you, the infamous linear thinking viet.

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## warzone

Jinri said:


> Let me put you in your place, this is what your defense industry is capable of, indeed small and lean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overkill but anyway


 Obviously you are not the brightest light in this forum, comparing the size of a grape to a watermelon. What is wrong with producing small armed fast boats? Iran with it fleet of small armed fast boats is doing a great job keeping the US navy (who are far more capable and deadly by decades than PLA) on the edge in the Persian Gulf and it will give a hell of fight in case of conflict.





Having a huge defense budget and large quantity of military hardware doesn’t guaranty you success. PLA should look at the Saudi army, despite having all they perform miserably against a small hungry and poorly equipped Yemenis rebels. Even with western advisers and all the modern weaponry, they can’t fight.

PLA is all about threatening everyone (VN, Japan, India, Taiwan, US…even Hong Kong ..hhaha... good at crushing students ) and no action… PLA scare to end up like the Saudis and lose all the mighty image it try to build with the money ? It’s why we didn’t see any PLA action since the battle of Tiananmen square against unarmed students? Some action please, make us scare big mouth PLA

North Korea ( beside their nuclear bombs and ballistic missiles) with their vastly 1960-70s weaponry, zero economy and only have food storage to fight 6-12 months warfare? LOL !!! Another sign that you are not the brightest light in here.

PS: it @grey boy 2 is your boyfriend?


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## grey boy 2

warzone said:


> PS: it @grey boy 2 is your boyfriend?


Oh boy you're one aggressive online gay looking for attention? aren't you?
Unfortunately i ain't your type, better luck next time lol
Btw, we've plenty of your kind selling "seafood" at temple street in my hometown HK, feel free go to join them anytime


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## IblinI

warzone said:


> Obviously you are not the brightest light in this forum, comparing the size of a grape to a watermelon. What is wrong with producing small armed fast boats? Iran with it fleet of small armed fast boats is doing a great job keeping the US navy (who are far more capable and deadly by decades than PLA) on the edge in the Persian Gulf and it will give a hell of fight in case of conflict.
> View attachment 624601
> 
> 
> Having a huge defense budget and large quantity of military hardware doesn’t guaranty you success. PLA should look at the Saudi army, despite having all they perform miserably against a small hungry and poorly equipped Yemenis rebels. Even with western advisers and all the modern weaponry, they can’t fight.
> 
> PLA is all about threatening everyone (VN, Japan, India, Taiwan, US…even Hong Kong ..hhaha... good at crushing students ) and no action… PLA scare to end up like the Saudis and lose all the mighty image it try to build with the money ? It’s why we didn’t see any PLA action since the battle of Tiananmen square against unarmed students? Some action please, make us scare big mouth PLA
> 
> North Korea ( beside their nuclear bombs and ballistic missiles) with their vastly 1960-70s weaponry, zero economy and only have food storage to fight 6-12 months warfare? LOL !!! Another sign that you are not the brightest light in here.
> 
> PS: it @grey boy 2 is your boyfriend?


In short, "Even though I am running around almost naked and unable to make even a little boat engine, but we are still confident". says a wise viet man.
As for your small boat deterrence theory, don't know if the Iranian or your navy is on the same page with you when they have a better choice.


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## Viet

Jinri said:


> you are more clueless than anyone to not trust your government and army to spilled out such nonsense at a age of 40, invest in defense industry means militarization.
> Looks like vietnam needs some clerk and accountant.
> The stupid man is looking for an excuse for not being able to built an engine for even a little boat and suger coating it as "peace loving people".
> Anyway, never expected more from you, the infamous linear thinking viet.


Keep laughing 

Keep accumulating weapons. Let’s see if you can liberate Taiwan.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Keep laughing
> 
> Keep accumulating weapons. Let’s see if you can liberate Taiwan.


Don't be mad, I think I made a clear point that investing in the defense industry not only benefits the armed forces but also uplifting the industrial level of a nation as a whole.


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## Viet

Jinri said:


> Don't be mad, I think I made a clear point that investing in the defense industry not only benefits the armed forces but also uplifting the industrial level of a nation as a whole.


You say nothing new. I knew that.


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> You say nothing new. I knew that.


You knew but acted and typed the total opposite and suger coating it as "peace loving".
Things would be different only if your army run company could invest more from its revenue and act accordingly for decades.


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## Viet

Jinri said:


> You knew but acted and typed the total opposite and suger coating it as "peace loving".
> Things would be different only if your army run company could invest more from its revenue and act accordingly for decades.


Vietnamese being pacific is a fact which has root in confucism. We go to war only if necessary, not for fun. Certainly we are not China with large resources, so priority must be made. If I have to choose between making a car or making a warship then I choose the first. Unless a war breaks out, all men will be mobilized I see better benefits for us to make cars.

As for Viettel you mentioned I don’t run the company I don’t know what objectives it has. You may be right, the company should do more.


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## sahureka2

sahureka2 said:


> If desired, there would also be plenty of space on the Hamilton OPV 8020 class,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which could go to the Vietnamese People's Navy and modify the optical number 22 by continuing the uniform numbering of the donated Pohang class (18-20)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1x OtoMelara 76/62 compact
> 2x4 Kh-35 Uran or Vietnamese version
> 1x AK-630 aft of the ship
> 
> and .....as Viet wrote last Sunday, another Hamilton-class Cutter will arrive in March



Seems like it was a good idea 

_"The American patrol ship, which appeared in the service of the coast guard of Vietnam, can be converted into a full-fledged frigate, taking its rightful place in the local navy battle pennants. This opinion was expressed by the publication KienThuc." _

https://en.topwar.ru/170312-kienthuc-kak-prevratit-korabl-ssha-v-rusificirovannyj-fregat.html

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## warzone

grey boy 2 said:


> Oh boy you're one aggressive online gay looking for attention? aren't you?
> Unfortunately i ain't your type, better luck next time lol
> Btw, we've plenty of your kind selling "seafood" at temple street in my hometown HK, feel free go to join them anytime



Did I hurt your little feeling, internet tough guy @grey boy 2 ? You seem to appreciate the girl pic of not-so- bright light @IblinI, so why jumping so quickly about your sexual orientation?

I go to HKG often and have many Hkgers friends, was there last April 2019. I always stay in same hotel on Nathan road near Temple Street, so I know that neighborhood well.

Keep your prejudices about Temple Street workers for yourself and in the internet forum safe behind your laptop screen, internet tough guy. Because you have no balls no courage to say it in front of those people, so better just shut up.

We are not created and born equal with same opportunities in this world, but arrogant internet tough guy like you don’t understand that.



IblinI said:


> In short, "Even though I am running around almost naked and unable to make even a little boat engine, but we are still confident". says a wise viet man.
> As for your small boat deterrence theory, don't know if the Iranian or your navy is on the same page with you when they have a better choice.



Another reason you are not the brightest dude in here, the same apply for big mouth PLA future performance in real combat vs Saudi army poor performance in Yemen . Having a lot of big new toys and winning war games (by cheating) doesn’t mean anything until real combat. But one thing is 100% certain, is that big mouth PLA is NOT in the same page with the US,,,,, big mouth PLA is still far behind US forces in quality and combat experience….

It's a lot more easy to learn how to operate fast small boats in quick attack formation than learning how to operate a complex aircraft carrier task force, which going to take big mouth PLA at least 20 years (maybe 15 now). Also, the Iranian small fast boats haven’t best tested in real combat, neither the VN navy so we have nothing to compare with.


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## IblinI

warzone said:


> Did I hurt your little feeling, internet tough guy @grey boy 2 ? You seem to appreciate the girl pic of not-so- bright light @IblinI, so why jumping so quickly about your sexual orientation?
> 
> I go to HKG often and have many Hkgers friends, was there last April 2019. I always stay in same hotel on Nathan road near Temple Street, so I know that neighborhood well.
> 
> Keep your prejudices about Temple Street workers for yourself and in the internet forum safe behind your laptop screen, internet tough guy. Because you have no balls no courage to say it in front of those people, so better just shut up.
> 
> We are not created and born equal with same opportunities in this world, but arrogant internet tough guy like you don’t understand that.
> 
> 
> 
> Another reason you are not the brightest dude in here, the same apply for big mouth PLA future performance in real combat vs Saudi army poor performance in Yemen . Having a lot of big new toys and winning war games (by cheating) doesn’t mean anything until real combat. But one thing is 100% certain, is that big mouth PLA is NOT in the same page with the US,,,,, big mouth PLA is still far behind US forces in quality and combat experience….
> 
> It's a lot more easy to learn how to operate fast small boats in quick attack formation than learning how to operate a complex aircraft carrier task force, which going to take big mouth PLA at least 20 years (maybe 15 now). Also, the Iranian small fast boats haven’t best tested in real combat, neither the VN navy so we have nothing to compare with.


don't be mad, enjoy your bicycle.


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## grey boy 2

warzone said:


> Did I hurt your little feeling, internet tough guy @grey boy 2 ? You seem to appreciate the girl pic of not-so- bright light @IblinI, so why jumping so quickly about your sexual orientation?
> 
> I go to HKG often and have many Hkgers friends, was there last April 2019. I always stay in same hotel on Nathan road near Temple Street, so I know that neighborhood well.
> 
> Keep your prejudices about Temple Street workers for yourself and in the internet forum safe behind your laptop screen, internet tough guy. Because you have no balls no courage to say it in front of those people, so better just shut up.
> 
> We are not created and born equal with same opportunities in this world, but arrogant internet tough guy like you don’t understand that.
> 
> 
> 
> Another reason you are not the brightest dude in here, the same apply for big mouth PLA future performance in real combat vs Saudi army poor performance in Yemen . Having a lot of big new toys and winning war games (by cheating) doesn’t mean anything until real combat. But one thing is 100% certain, is that big mouth PLA is NOT in the same page with the US,,,,, big mouth PLA is still far behind US forces in quality and combat experience….
> 
> It's a lot more easy to learn how to operate fast small boats in quick attack formation than learning how to operate a complex aircraft carrier task force, which going to take big mouth PLA at least 20 years (maybe 15 now). Also, the Iranian small fast boats haven’t best tested in real combat, neither the VN navy so we have nothing to compare with.



Never mind, not going to derail a sticky, people has been putting in effort and pride with it


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## warzone

IblinI said:


> don't be mad, enjoy your bicycle.



Me mad, why? For your dumb comments? Your last comment just show again why you are not the brightest light in here, it’s meaningless and try to insult me (bicycle ??? WTF hahaha!!!) to cover the fact that you can’t reply me with an intelligible comment.

You are reading too many big mouth PLA newspapers and your blind patriotism clearly mess up your mindset. People like you who defend their motherland blindly is one of the reasons why a growing number of people around the world are hating China and big mouth PLA. And that number just grow bigger day by day. And with COVID-19 that numbers just grow quicker.

Remember the arrogance of the Romans, the arrogance of the British and French colonial empires, the arrogance of the Japanese imperial army (which China despised so much but act like them today) , the arrogance of the US (now in decline...fast) and now the arrogance of China and big mouth PLA….and remember how they all end up?

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## cochine

IblinI said:


> You knew but acted and typed the total opposite and suger coating it as "peace loving".
> Things would be different only if your army run company could invest more from its revenue and act accordingly for decades.



Its better for this thread. Following Hongkong agency there is slogenin Tokyo, " Chinese, pls go out !"






một đài truyền hình có trụ sở ở Hồng Kông trình chiếu một đoạn video ghi lại ở một nhà hàng Nhật Bản tại TP Ito có cảnh một nhân viên phục vụ hô lớn "Trung Quốc! Mời đi ra ngoài" với một du khách.


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## Viet

Vietnam should blacklist the PLA as terror organization.


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## Viet

The Battle of Long Tan (1966)

A documentary









The 3 day battle was fought between the regiments of NVA and Vietcong against Australia’s 1st Task Force.





Battle of Long Tan, 18 August 1966

Belongs to the numerous films Vietnam war theme 

„Danger Close”


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## flowerfan2020

cochine said:


> Its better for this thread. Following Hongkong agency there is slogenin Tokyo, " Chinese, pls go out !"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> một đài truyền hình có trụ sở ở Hồng Kông trình chiếu một đoạn video ghi lại ở một nhà hàng Nhật Bản tại TP Ito có cảnh một nhân viên phục vụ hô lớn "Trung Quốc! Mời đi ra ngoài" với một du khách.


According the sign, it said: "Only Chinese allow, other breed prohibited."


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## cochine

flowerfan2020 said:


> According the sign, it said: "Only Chinese allow, other breed prohibited."



Yoke.
Japanese do know that when chinese cpc citizen coming in, what she can do ... ?


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## Viet

New automatic weapon on fishery vessels

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## sahureka2

Viet said:


> New automatic weapon on fishery vessels



14,5 mm ?


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## Viet

sahureka2 said:


> 14,5 mm ?


Yes 14.5 mm calibre

can be mounted on small boat as well









On armor verhicle







Warship

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## striver44

Viet said:


> Vietnam should blacklist the PLA as terror organization.


*China's Response To Coronavirus A 'Terrorist Act', Officials Say*
*Lisa Finn
,
Patch•April 22, 2020





*
SUFFOLK COUNTY, NY — A group of lawmakers and business owners said Tuesday that they'd like to see China's response to the new coronavirus pandemic declared "a terrorist act."

A press conference was held Tuesday both on Facebook and in the office of New York State Assemblyman Anthony Palumbo in Riverhead to discuss what they called a "bold action to save local businesses and the economy."

Palumbo said the "terrorist act" declaration would open the door for insurance companies to pay out business disruption claims with reimbursement through the Terrorism Risk Insurance Fund.

"It was recently revealed that China knew about the dangers posed by the virus early on, yet did nothing to stop its spread," Palumbo said in a release.

He added: "It is clearly an act of terrorism to intentionally conceal a deadly virus that can infect millions and cause economic devastation around the world. With this declaration we can not only sue China for damages, we will also gain access to hundreds of billions of dollars for our businesses under the Terrorism Risk Insurance Fund."

The officials said they will call on President Donald Trump and Gov. Andrew Cuomo to declare the virus an “Act of Terrorism” and clear the way for the Terrorist Risk Insurance Fund.

According to Gary Pollakusky of the Rocky Point Sound Beach Chamber of Commerce: “Our businesses are in crisis and are counting on the president and governor do everything they can to make sure we survive."

Other elected officials agreed: “Businesses are on life support due the virus,” said Riverhead Councilwoman Jodi Giglio. “They pay high insurance premiums and need the companies insuring them to be there for them. This declaration will help these businesses survive.”

Palumbo is currently running to fill New York State Senator Kenneth LaValle's seat when he retires and Giglio is seeking election to Palumbo's seat.

When asked for his thoughts on the proposed declaration Tuesday, Suffolk County Executive Steve Bellone said he hadn't heard of the measure and would "have to take a look at that."

He added: "As we move away from the height of the crisis and we see the numbers start to go down we can see some think it's time to move away from putting politics aside and the cooperative spirit of working together in a crisis."

Bellone said the spotlight remains on providing supplies for front line workers and finding relief for small businesses and homeowners, as well as moving forward with a focus on recovery and the "challenges we have ahead. I'm not really interested in getting involved in side issues that are not really relevant to what we are doing here."

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## Viet

Next week, a day to remember

April 30, 1975

after breakthrough the last lines of defense, with the city being encircled and cut off,
North Vietnamese tanks arrived Saigon middle.

With the collapse of the Republican army, the President of South Vietnam, General Dung van Minh, signed the unconditional surrender. 












Minh announcing the surrender of South Vietnam.

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## Viet

North Vietnam‘s Air defence







Pháo cao xạ cỡ nòng 57mm trong chiến tranh Việt Nam


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## cochine

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## cochine

*Weapon of VPA in Vietnam war.*

Initially, the artillery forces were provided with some kind of defensive spoils (Ant-tank PAK 40 75 mm made in Germany in WW II, transfered by UdSSR) by the Soviet Union.
Nguồn ảnh: Otavaga.






In 1960, the Soviet Union provided Vietnam with a series of powerful rocket launchers (BM-13, BM-14, BM-21 Grad, DKB) and even heavy guns with extremely long range.
Nguồn ảnh: Bảo tàng Pháo binh





Until June 22, 1965, the new armored command was established.Photo: Tank troops - armored vehicles were born on the first day equipped with armored vehicles of France, USA.
Nguồn ảnh: Otavaga





The first period (1959-1960) was mainly T-34-85 / Type 58 medium tank provided by Soviet / Chinese.From 1962, we began to supply modern T-54 tanks and PT-76 swimming tanks.






In addition to tanks, the Soviet Union in the war against the US also provided Vietnam with a number of armored vehicles such as BTR-40, BTR-50P, BTR-60.





On the Chinese side, it supplies Vietnam with T-59 tanks (the Chinese version of T-54), amphibious Type 63 amphibious tanks (Vietnam calls it K63-85) and armored vehicles.





The Air Defense - Vietnam Air Force was officially established only on late. However, right from 1958, units of "future" PK-KQ army were soon born.



ctober 22, 1963.

At the beginning of its establishment, the anti-aircraft troops were mainly equipped with German-made guns (captured by the Soviet Union after 1945 and provided aid to us).For example, the legendary German Flak 88, a cannon that can both shoot aircraft and defeat tanks.





Subsequently, the Soviet Union provided additional 37mm 61-K, 57mm S-60, 85mm 52-K, and the largest, KS-19 100mm cannon (this type of artillery was recorded to shoot down a B-52 in12 days late night 1972). There are also 14.5mm ZPU-1/2 machine gun, ZSU-57-2, AM self-propelled machine guns.





With the missile team, the first missile regiment bearing the 236 mark (Doan Song Da) was officially established on January 7, 1965 with the main equipment of extremely S-75 Dvina air defense missile complex.





In the period 1965-1972, the Soviet Union mainly provided us with S-75 Dvina missiles with a number of modified versions to improve the resistance to interference, range ... China also provided us with a version ofS-75 is designated HQ-2 but we don't used. ( Its reported that it was problem with the quality was fallon down after start)





It was not until 1972 that the Soviet Union agreed to provide us with a more modern air defense missile complex - the S-125 Pechora.






Regarding air equipment, the Soviet Union provided the Vietnam People's Air Force with three types of interceptors: MiG-15UTI (for training only), MiG-17 and especially MiG-21 F13, PFM, MF, UM).(PF version And China gives us J-6 - the Soviet MiG-19 version.





The MiG-21s helped the Vietnam People's Air Force significantly dominate the skies in front of thousands of state-of-the-art US aircraft.Hundreds of US fighter planes (including the "flying fortress" B-52) were shot down by MiG-21.





Regarding air transport / helicopters, the Soviet Union provided us with heavy transport helicopters Mi-6, medium helicopters Mi-4/8, transport aircraft An-2 / Li-2 /Il-18 / Il-14 / An-24. Photo source: Logistics Museum.





The Navy or Vietnamese People's Navy was established on May 7, 1955 with the original name of "Coast Guard Department".The construction of the Song Lo and Bach Dang fleets Since the 1960s, the People's Navy of Vietnam has been "modernized" by Soviet-Chinese warships.





The majority of the warships we received during the anti-American resistance were artillery ships, subchasers, torpedo boats tens to hundreds of tons.





It was not until 1972 that Vietnam had its first missile ship - the Soviet-made Project 183 Komar fast attack ships. This ship is equipped with two P-15 Termit cruise missiles.

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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Next week, a day to remember
> 
> April 30, 1975
> 
> after breakthrough the last lines of defense, with the city being encircled and cut off,
> North Vietnamese tanks arrived Saigon middle.
> 
> With the collapse of the Republican army, the President of South Vietnam, General Dung van Minh, signed the unconditional surrender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minh announcing the surrender of South Vietnam.


All dream for peace and normal, happy life after the war

South VN soldier spoke English so well in the footage."everyone is happy, no one have to fight anymore.."

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## Viet

*Vietnam may soon sue China on South China Sea*
Hanoi is weighing an international arbitration case against Beijing to settle their hotly contested sea claims
By DAVID HUTT MAY 7, 2020





A Vietnamese soldier stands watch overlooking the South China Sea. Photo: Facebook
Vietnam is believed to be inching towards filing an international arbitration case against China’s expansive claims in the South China Sea, a potential legal response to rising Chinese intimidation and harassment in the contested waterway.

Analysts monitoring the situation believe Hanoi could file such a petition, possibly similar to the one the Philippines filed and won against China at The Hague’s Permanent Court of Arbitration in July 2016.

That decision ruled that China has “no historical rights” under its “nine-dash line” which Beijing uses to claim sovereignty to nearly 90% of the sea. China refused to participate in the proceedings and said it would “ignore” the decision, which lacked an enforcement mechanism.

“There have been significantly more voices within the ruling elite in Hanoi calling for bringing China to court” since last year, said Alexander Vuving, professor at the Daniel K Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu, Hawaii.



Derek Grossman, a senior defense analyst at the RAND Corporation, a Washington-based think tank, said he had no confirmation that Hanoi is moving forward with an international case, but “I have heard from government sources that the proposal is under serious consideration.”

A Vietnamese diplomatic source who spoke to Asia Times on the condition of anonymity said discussions in Hanoi about an international lawsuit are now more intense than previously.

At an annual South China Sea conference hosted last November by the Diplomatic Academy of Vietnam, Vietnam’s deputy foreign minister Le Hoai Trung publicly raised the issue of an international case, the first time in nearly five years that a senior official had broached it.

“The UN Charter and UNCLOS 1982 have sufficient mechanisms for us to apply those measures,” Trung said at the time, referring to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), an international treaty.







Vietnam has rising motivation to take China to court. The Chinese Haiyang Dizhi 8 geological survey ship spent much of 2019 harassing a Vietnamese joint venture with a Russian firm that was exploring for energy in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) in the South China Sea.

That intimidation has continued this year, in spite of the coronavirus crisis. On April 3, a Vietnamese fishing vessel was sunk by a Chinese coast guard ship near in disputed waters near the sea’s Paracel Islands.

Then, on April 13, the Chinese Haiyang Dizhi 8 geological survey ship was redeployed to monitor Vietnam’s EEZ.

Days later, the Chinese government announced the creation of new administrative areas in the Paracel and Spratly Islands, parts of which Vietnam also claims.

Vietnam isn’t the only rival claimant in the South China Sea to have faced recent Chinese intimidation. Last month, Chinese vessels patrolled areas of the South China Sea that lie in Malaysia’s EEZ, including an area where it is conducting energy exploration.

While taking the matter to an international court may give Hanoi a certain symbolic victory, Beijing is unlikely to abide by any potential ruling in Vietnam’s favor. And the move could escalate tensions closer to conflict, analysts say.

But there is a sense that Vietnam is running out of options. Bill Hayton, a South China Sea expert at the Chatham House think tank, told Reuters last November that an international lawsuit is maybe “the only thing left for Vietnam.”

Speaking to Asia Times, Honolulu-based analyst Vuving opined that “Hanoi may think it has no other option [but] to sue China at an international court.”

Whenever Beijing opposes Hanoi’s actions in the South China Sea, the Vietnamese government has basically two options: either publicly criticize China or attempt to solve tensions through communist party-to-party meetings with Beijing.





Chinese President Xi Jinping (C) and Vietnam’s Communist Party Secretary General Nguyen Phu Trong (R) wave during a welcoming ceremony at the presidential palace in Hanoi, November 12, 2017. Photo: AFP/Hoang Dinh Nam


When Beijing announced the new administrative centers last month, Vietnam’s Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Le Thi Thu Hang issued a statement deploring the move. “Vietnam demands that China respect Vietnam’s sovereignty and abolish its wrongful decisions,” it said.

Last August, Vietnam analyst Le Hong Hiep wrote in regional media that “diplomacy seems…to be the first and also the last line of defence [for Vietnam] against China’s assertiveness in the South China Sea.”

However, Hanoi might sense the time is ripe for a new legalistic approach, one that could sway international opinion in its favor.

Indeed, if there was ever a time when the Vietnamese people were most inclined to rally around the ruling Communist Party and when Beijing was at its weakest and most vulnerable, it is arguably now.

Global frustration with China, chiefly because of its handling of the coronavirus crisis and its subsequent disinformation campaign, has not been so pronounced in decades.

The China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, a think tank affiliated with the Ministry of State Security, China’s top intelligence body, apparently claimed in a recent report that “global anti-China sentiment is at its highest since the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown,” according to a Reuters report paraphrasing of the report.

At the same time, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has been weakened domestically as economic growth, the long-ruling party’s main source of legitimacy, is expected to contract in 2020 for the first time in four decades.

Vietnam’s ruling Communist Party, however, has won praise at home and abroad for its competent and uncharacteristically transparent handling of the Covid-19 crisis. Vietnam is also likely to be a big benefactor as the US, Japan and European states seek to “decouple” their economies and shift their supply chains away from China.

Vietnam can also leverage its current strong international standing to make its case against China.





Chinese PLA Navy soldiers on a naval vessel in the South China Sea. Photo: Twitter


Vietnam is this year’s rotating chair of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), a position it will likely try to use to forge a more united front amongst Southeast Asian neighbors, many of which have their own rival claims against China in the sea.

Vietnam also holds the non-permanent seat at the UN Security Council for 2021-22, a position that allows it to raise the issue of Chinese “aggression” to other Security Council members, said Carl Thayer, emeritus professor at the University of New South Wales in Australia.

But the problem, he noted, is obvious: “China has the right of veto.” According to Thayer, “Vietnam has been ambiguous about what legal action it would take and what issues it would raise.”

Instead of lodging a complaint through the UN Security Council, Hanoi could pursue the “Philippines model” by making a claim under the UNCLOS treaty, which determines sovereignty and maritime delimitation.

If it takes that route, Hanoi will need to decide whether it files a case at the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea, the International Court of Justice, an Arbitral Tribunal or a Special Arbitral Tribunal.

“All state parties to UNCLOS are free to nominate which of the four mechanisms it prefers. If a state has not done so, then the default position is the Arbitral Tribunal. This is what occurred with the Philippines and China,” Thayer explained.

If an Arbitral Tribunal rules in Vietnam’s favor, which will require Hanoi to prove several debatable issues over its own historic claims, then “Vietnam would gain by the publicity it received and the political pressure it would put China under,” Thayer said.





US President Donald Trump (R) and Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc (L) at a meeting at the Government Office in Hanoi on February 27, 2019. Photo: Saul Loeb/AFP


It would also give Vietnam “grounds for resisting Chinese actions and would provide a basis for the international community to support Vietnam” but “there is very little Vietnam could do” if Chinaignores the ruling, as it did with the Philippines, Thayer said.

Indeed, there are risks of taking China to court. Writing last August, analyst Le Hong Hiep noted that senior Vietnamese officials are wary of taking China to arbitration as “even if Vietnam wins the case, it will not stop China from encroaching into the country’s waters in the future.”

“Even worse,” he added, “it may make China more aggressive and further destabilise Vietnam–China relations, which may threaten Vietnam’s economic prospects and put the country into a precarious strategic position.”

RAND Corporation analyst Grossman asserted last year that if China did seek conflict, Vietnam would be the Chinese military’s “preferred warm-up because it would offer the military much-needed combat experience in the air and naval domains, without the threat of US intervention, and in a winnable situation.”

It’s unclear if Vietnam is being pressured by international allies, namely the US, to file an arbitration case against China in hopes of establishing a second legal precedent against Beijing’s sea claims. Such a verdict, analysts argue, would give the US more ammunition to intensify its freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea.

It is “important to highlight how the Chinese Communist party is exploiting the world’s focus on the Covid-19 crisis by continuing its provocative behavior,” US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said to Southeast Asian foreign ministers in a video conference last month.

“The United States,” Pompeo said, “strongly opposes China’s bullying; we hope other nations will hold them to account, too.”

In many ways, Vietnam is in a Catch-22 situation. Its attempts at diplomacy and public protest have failed to deter China, as recent intimidation tactics have underscored.

But internationalizing their tensions might push Vietnam and China – and, by extension, the US and China – closer to a point of armed conflict, which *Hanoi likely knows it has no chance of winning without major foreign backing.*


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## cochine

__ https://www.facebook.com/


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## Indos

Guys, you need CN 235 MPA for better protecting your claim in South China Sea. I think it is not enough to have NC 212i MPA to cover that vast sea area. 

Here is our defense journalist statement.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256400975914401800

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## Viet

Indos said:


> Guys, you need CN 235 MPA for better protecting your claim in South China Sea. I think it is not enough to have NC 212i MPA to cover that vast sea area.
> 
> Here is our defense journalist statement.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256400975914401800


Buying a plane here and there is nice, however it is not going to change anything even if we buy 100 planes. Since I joined Pdf I promoted Vietnam to join the US military alliance. Chinese only respect military strength. Appearing weakness is something we can’t afford. They laugh at us. They will come. It’s a question of when not if. We must be prepared. To fight the Chinese we need more submarines more tanks more aircraft more missiles. A lots of more’s.

We must strike the balance of power, otherwise a war will come. Inevitably.

But Ok to have a good relationship it is good when we buy more aircraft from Indonesia.

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## Indos

Viet said:


> Buying a plane here and there is nice, however it is not going to change anything even if we buy 100 planes. Since I joined Pdf I promoted Vietnam to join the US military alliance. Chinese only respect military strength. Appearing weakness is something we can’t afford. They laugh at us. They will come. It’s a question of when not if. We must be prepared. To fight the Chinese we need more submarines more tanks more aircraft more missiles. A lots of more’s.
> 
> We must strike the balance of power, otherwise a war will come. Inevitably.
> 
> But Ok to have a good relationship it is good when we buy more aircraft from Indonesia.



I believe they wont come. I dont think they want to conquer any land just like in the old days, they just want to assert more power in South China Sea. This is why they build several military post there. Those aircraft carriers are also intended for their adventure in SCS. It shows seriousness on their part for that plan.

As I said already in other thread, Indonesia will only possibly pose formidable power projection after the year 2034, with the assumption we can still grow economically at least 5-6 percent for the next 14 years. I believe our future leader until 2034 will still adopt similar policy like the previous ones to keep defense spending below 1 percentage of GDP. So by looking into that realistic projection, our defense spending will only increase inline with GDP growth increase.

I believe that from now until 2034, the needed of that power balance can only be achieved by the present of US military and its ally. So far we see new development at the end of last year during NATO meeting when US try to bring NATO to help them do the power projection and posturing in a contested SCS. If NATO agrees with US plan, it can bring significant blow to China power projection in that area.

Indonesia IMO will likely to be more vocal on the issue starting this year and try to bring ASEAN together in the SCS dispute as we have witnessed in January events. And as Malaysia appears to show more firm stance on the dispute as well which is quite contrast with its previous leadership under Najib, so it is likely that ASEAN can be more united on the SCS issue and produce more strong stance about the important for all parties to abide with UNCLOS rule in every ASEAN-China meeting. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the news about ASEAN more stronger stance on the issue.

*ASEAN reaffirms international law as basis for sovereignty in South China Sea*

Dian Septiari
The Jakarta Post
Jakarta / Sat, January 18, 2020 / 03:56 pm
https://www.thejakartapost.com/seas...-appointed-as-pgn-president-commissioner.html

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## Viet

Indos said:


> I believe they wont come. I dont think they want to conquer any land just like in the old days, they just want to assert more power in South China Sea. This is why they build several military post there. Those aircraft carriers are also intended for their adventure in SCS. It shows seriousness on their part for that plan.
> 
> As I said already in other thread, Indonesia will only possibly pose formidable power projection after the year 2034, with the assumption we can still grow economically at least 5-6 percent for the next 14 years. I believe our future leader until 2034 will still adopt similar policy like the previous ones to keep defense spending below 1 percentage of GDP. So by looking into that realistic projection, our defense spending will only increase inline with GDP growth increase.
> 
> I believe that from now until 2034, the needed of that power balance can only be achieved by the present of US military and its ally. So far we see new development at the end of last year during NATO meeting when US try to bring NATO to help them do the power projection and posturing in a contested SCS. If NATO agrees with US plan, it can bring significant blow to China power projection in that area.
> 
> Indonesia IMO will likely to be more vocal on the issue starting this year and try to bring ASEAN together in the SCS dispute as we have witnessed in January events. And as Malaysia appears to show more firm stance on the dispute as well which is quite contrast with its previous leadership under Najib, so it is likely that ASEAN can be more united on the SCS issue and produce more strong stance about the important for all parties to abide with UNCLOS rule in every ASEAN-China meeting.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Here is the news about ASEAN more stronger stance on the issue.
> 
> *ASEAN reaffirms international law as basis for sovereignty in South China Sea*
> 
> Dian Septiari
> The Jakarta Post
> Jakarta / Sat, January 18, 2020 / 03:56 pm
> https://www.thejakartapost.com/seas...-appointed-as-pgn-president-commissioner.html


Indonesia doesn’t share a common land border with China, you don’t share common sea lanes, either; hence you are not in a precarious strategic position as we are.

But your assessment is right that a military strong Indonesia is very helpful in maintaining a certain degree of balance of power. The US military presence in the region is imperative though.

I don’t believe Asean can do anything.


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## Reashot Xigwin

13 MAY 2020 12:00 AM

Video footage shows Vietnamese T-90S/SK MBTs fitted with Shtora-1 APS

Video footage released online on 12 May by the Vietnam National Defence television channel (QPVN) shows that at least some of the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) T-90S/SK main battle tanks (MBTs) acquired from Russia have been equipped with the Shtora-1 active protection system (APS).

The footage, which was part of a QPVN news programme, showed at least one T-90SK and two T-90S MBTs fitted with the Russian-made APS.

The second distinctive feature on the MBTs, which were shown being displayed at a military base alongside several other tanks and an armoured recovery vehicle, was the Kord 12.7 mm heavy machinegun (HMG) - instead of the organic NSVT 12.7 mm HMG - which was seen installed in a roof-top mount.






A screengrab from QPVN video footage released on 12 May showing VPA T-90S/SK MBTs equipped with the Shtora-1 active protection system.

The QPVN news report comes after the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) told Jane’s in March 2019 that Moscow had completed the delivery of 64 T-90S/SK MBTs to Vietnam under a contract signed in 2016.

A representative of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) told Janes at the time that the MBTs had been shipped in two large batches, each totalling “no fewer than 30 platforms”.

“The first batch was delivered last December [2018], while the second one arrived in Vietnam in late February [2019],” said the sources at the time, adding that the VPA received the MBTs equipped with Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour and “a turret-mounted missile countermeasures system”.

The vehicles are replacing outdated Chinese-made Type 59 and non-upgraded Soviet-era T-54 tanks, he added.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/2020/05/14/b92a31b2-a433-4ea0-979e-107a5b8fedd0

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## Viet

Tàu tuần tra USCGC John Midgett đã được xóa bỏ số hiệu





Hệ thống CIWS Phalanx cùng radar AN/SPS-40 đã được gỡ bỏ khỏi tàu


Former US coast vessel USCGC John Midgett is stripped off painting, rotating gun phalanx, radar before handing over to Vietnam Coast Guard.



Vietnam Coast Guard says will continue patrols despite chinese threat.





Tàu cảnh sát biển 8004 làm nhiệm vụ trên biển. Ảnh: Cảnh sát biển VN


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## Viet

T90S/SK











Khả năng điều khiển xe tăng khá ấn tượng của kíp lái T-90 Việt Nam. Ảnh: Binh chủng Tăng Thiết giáp.

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## Viet

*SOUTHEAST ASIA*
*A New Dynamics of U.S.-Viet Nam Relations: U.S.-led ‘Quad and Viet Nam Axis’ in the Indo-Pacific*

 


SHARE


 

 
TWEET

April 26, 2020
By

Gitanjali Sinha Roy
The relation between the United States and Viet Nam has been reinvigorated in the recent times and that has led to an extraordinary level mutual exchange. Both countries have had a tempestuous past with scars of the war.

This rapprochement accompanied with Viet Nam’s efforts to work with the Asia-Pacific countries like Japan and India speaks volumes about Viet Nam’s concern over Chinese assertive superiority mainly in the South China Sea and due to these dynamics, the relations between the United States of America and Viet Nam are now in a new era of stronger relations. The article traces the reasons for the ‘new changes within the dynamics’ between the United States of America and Vietnam which stems the possibility of the formation of a ‘United States-led coalition with the Quad countries and Viet Nam Axis’ in the Indo-Pacific region.

According to the 2019 Defence White Paper of Viet Nam, it considers itself as a“maritime nation which pays special attention to the safety and protection of the seas along with commitment towards the freedom of navigation and overflight”. They also aim for free trade and peaceful economic activities in accordance with international law. For the United States, the importance of Viet Nam is based on the fact that it is a Southeast Asian nation, a maritime power and in a tussle with China in the South China Sea. Therefore, the United States finds Viet Nam to be the most suitable candidate for their South and Southeast Asian strategy where China’s maritime dominance and its efforts to emerge as a maritime hegemonic power needs to be dealt with.

Also, the U.S knows very well that apart from China, Viet Nam has been considered the most dangerous maritime power as it has taken China on in the South China Sea.

The U.S. has been amazed by the sheer courage that Viet Nam has shown to tackle Chinese aggression.The 2019 Defence White Paper also clearly reflects Viet Nam’s fear from Chinese encroachment as it mentions about the destabilizing elements in the region which threatens the stability, peace and prosperity in the South China Sea and East Sea according to Viet Nam. Though, the white paper avoids calling out any countries name, but it does mention that the “new developments in the East Sea like the unilateral actions, power-based coercion, violation of international law, militarization, change in the status quo, and infringement upon Vietnam’s sovereignty, sovereign rights, and jurisdiction as provided in international law have undermined the interests of nations concerned and threatened peace, stability, security, safety, and freedom of navigation and overflight in the region.” Therefore, it is a clear reference to China without actually naming it.


Viet Nam faces multiple challenges from China in the South China Sea of threat from militarised artificial islands and the test deployments of capabilities from these island facilities.

Viet Nam has become active in the economic operations within the claimed exclusive economic zone and its continental shelf and has been repetitively challenged by China which has resulted in the withdrawal of some oil and gas exploration projects like the demand to cease the exploration operation with Repsol in 2017 and the most recent standoff around the Vanguard Bank.

The United States of America understands Viet Nam’s importance in the multipolar world and knows how Viet Nam can be an integral part of the Indo-Pacific strategy of countering Chinese maritime dominance. Viet Nam too agrees with this fact and the 2019 Defence White paper is proof of that where it assesses the global situation which has been rapidly evolving into a multipolar order.


The region of Southeast Asia continues to be a dynamic part of the Asia-Pacific region due to its increasingly important geo-economic, geo-political and geo-strategic location making it a battleground among the great powers and it also mentioned the various foreign initiatives of China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), the U.S. Free and Open Indo-Pacific Strategy (FOIP) and India’s Look East Policy (LEP) now Act East Policy (AEP). Viet Nam has been making efforts to build good ties with Australia, India and Japan and other partners of the United States keeping the Free and Indo-Pacific concept and strategy in mind. 


In March 2018, they signed a new strategic partnership and 2019 during Prime Minister Morrison’s visit recognised each other’s importance as bilateral as well as Indo-Pacific partners globally. Both countries expressed their serious concerns in the developments of the South China Sea especially the long-standing oil and gas issues and condemned Chinese behaviour of violating the International law in particular UNCLOS. Viet Nam’s relations with India are based on a comprehensive strategic partnership which entails both these nations to build closer maritime security cooperation and work towards oil and gas explorations.

India has been training fighter pilots from Viet Nam and has been in talks to sell surface-to-air missiles. Both the countries have had joint naval exercises. Viet Nam’s relations with Japan have significantly expanded through strategic links in the last five years. These expanded ties include regular Japanese port visits to Viet Nam and Japan has been assisting Vietnam in maritime security and defence industrial cooperation. Viet Nam has been building closer relations with all three close partners of the U.S and by doing this is paving itself a position of being a networking security forum where all the regional powers combine which would help each of these countries come together and align against their common cause of threat, China.

Viet Nam was recently invited by the United States to participate in the Indo-Pacific teleconference on the COVID-19. Viet Nam was the only non-Quad member invited to this teleconferencing. Though, it can be said that since Viet Nam has been the Chair for ASEAN this year maybe that’s why it was invited by the United States.

On the contrary, the new changing dynamics in the relations between the U.S. and Viet Nam clearly highlights the importance of Viet Nam’s contribution in dealing with China in the Southeast Asian region especially as a maritime partner.

Viet Nam is known to have the strongest standing army and maritime force in Southeast Asia which is also beneficial in a situation of crisis in the region. Viet Nam’s relations with Japan Australia and India pave way for a multi-lateral dimension in its diplomacy which ultimately benefits the U.S. and due to all these inter-twined relations; Viet Nam has indirectly become a part of the Quad and so, there is a possible formation of a U.S. led coalition with Quad countries and Vietnam Axis in the Indo-Pacific region.


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## Viet

Vietnam is invited to Rimpac 2020, a US led military exercise in the western Pacific. Unclear if Vietnam will send any warships or just observers.


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## Indos

@Viet @Viva_Viet 

Look like you dont have video about your Army/Airforce/Navy, so far I only can see picture, it will be interesting if you have some video.

How is the update about your MALE UAV program that has been revealed in 2015 ?


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## Viva_Viet

Q


Indos said:


> @Viet @Viva_Viet
> 
> Look like you dont have video about your Army/Airforce/Navy, so far I only can see picture, it will be interesting if you have some video.
> 
> How is the update about your MALE UAV program that has been revealed in 2015 ?


Seem like our army dont like making video. So we dont have much.

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## Viet

in the last 4 years, 50 vessels are built and have joined the fishery department patrol fleet.

KN-750 class

770 tons



























latest models have 4x 12.7mm and 1x 14.5mm automatic machine guns.


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## Viet

Su30 with long range missiles


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## Viet

Interesting piece of history

a Vietnamese T34 tank (#289) captured during the 1979 war is displayed at the Bejing war museum Changping.







Pic with women

a military medic in Africa







massive USSR military supply (1973)

tanks

S75 missiles, S125 missiles


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## Viet

taken from Vietdefense

Hechler & Koch







Su 30 on patrol

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## Journeyman

Launch of _MSSARS_ 9316 (multipurpose submarine search-and-rescue _ship_ 9316) at Hai Phong. This is the largest ship in vietnam navy at 3950 tons

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## Viet

Ak630 ship gun





Pháo tự động 6 nòng (AK-630) trên tàu tên lửa tấn công nhanh của lữ đoàn 167, Vùng 2 hải quân bắn đạn thật trên biển


Loading Kh35 antiship missiles





Lắp đạn tên lửa chống hạm cho tàu tên lửa đi làm nhiệm vụ tuần tra trên biển

ẢNH: MAI THANH HẢI


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## Viet

*VIETNAM TO BEGIN PRODUCING INDIGENOUS ANTI-SHIP MISSILES BASED ON RUSSIAN KH-35UE*








Click to see full-size image

*The production of the KH-35UE anti-ship missile (also known as Uran-E system) began under the designation VCM-01 at Vietnam’s Z189 shipyard.*

The KH-35UE anti-ship missile is an export version of Russia’s KH-35U anti-ship missile.

*According to Vietnamese media, the Z189 shipyard is operated by the Ministry of Defense of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and it will carry out serial production of the VCM-01.*


Electronic components for the Vietnamese analogue of the 3M24E anti-ship missile will be supplied by the Viettel Military Industry and Telecoms Group.

Vietnam became the second country in the Asia-Pacific region to develop its own missile based on the Russian Uran-E. The first such country was North Korea, which previously showed images of a missile that looked very much like a Russian medium-range anti-ship missile.

Back in 2019, the Vietnamese Pohang type corvette upgraded with KH-35 Uran-E missile. The Vietnamese Pohang Flight III-class submarine guard installed their own versions of the Russian missile, the Uran-E anti-ship missile on a Pohang type corvette (former RCC 765 Yeosu) received at the end of 2018 as military aid from the South Korean Navy.





Click to see full-size image




Click to see full-size image





Click to see full-size image

Pohang-class guard vessels are medium-sized with a length of 88.3 m, width of 10 m, draft of 2.9 m and the amount of water expansion fully 1,300 tons. CODOG engine (combined diesel and gas turbine) allows the ship to run with a maximum speed of 32 knots, cruising speed of 15 knots, with a range of 4,000 nautical miles (7,400 km), having a crew of 95 people.

The weapons fitted to the Plight Flight III class of the Pohang class include two 76.2 mm Oto Melara Compact cannons with a barrel that is 62 times longer than the diameter (76 mm / 62). In addition, the ship also has two 40 mm/70 double-barrel quick-firing Dardo artillery platforms, in addition to supporting the 76 mm gun in destroying small targets.

The Uran-E missile is a subsonic weapon featuring a normal aerodynamic configuration with cruciform wings and fins and a semisubmerged air duct intake. The propulsion unit is a turbofan engine. The missile is guided to its target at the final leg of the trajectory by commands fed from the active radar homing head and the radio altimeter.

From 2001–2015, Russia supplied Vietnam with 198 Uran-E missiles for sea-based use. By June 2016, Vietnam was planning to start serial production of their indigenous anti-ship missile based on the Uran-E, covering three types of missiles for sea-launched, air-launched, and coastal defense as part of the 3K60 Bal/SSC-6 Sennight mobile coastal defense system.

It appears that the time has finally come to produce more of these indigenous missiles based on the Uran-E.

https://southfront.org/vietnam-to-b...-anti-ship-missiles-based-on-russian-kh-35ue/

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## Journeyman

Overhaul and parts production of Su-27 at A32 factory in Da Nang. Glad to see all the fighters are combat ready.

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## Viet

*Call in the cavalry: Vietnam introduces mounted police force*

By *Giang Huy - Viet Tuan*
Mon 6/8/2020, 05:06 pm (GMT+7)

*Vietnam's first mounted police battalion paraded in front of Hanoi's Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum Monday morning, prior to a parliamentary session.*





The parade on Doc Lap Street, which bisects the mausoleum and the parliament, was witnessed by the National Assembly delegates and other officials.





The parading battalion consisted of 60 horses and police officers, led by two white horses.

The mounted police force, which will operate under the Mobile Police Force Command of the Ministry of Public Security, was formed in early 2020. The force will directly train and utilize horses to fight crime, and take care of the team, including breeding new members.






National Assembly chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan receives the salute from a battalion officer as Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and others watch. The parade began at around 7 a.m.

Ngan noted that despite the cavalry being a new entity in Vietnam, the Public Security Ministry and officers are resolved to overcome all challenges including insufficient experience and training, logistics and human resources.







The police officers leading the battalion salute as they pass the parliament building.





Police officers said the horses are in good health, resilient and capable of adapting to different situations. The force can be used for patrolling and controlling unruly demonstrations, especially in areas where normal vehicles cannot be used. The force will fight crime, patrol and engage in rescues in mountainous areas, as well as maintain security in cities. The cavalries could also transport weapons and food to remote areas, as well as participating in governmental ceremonies and receiving international heads of state. They would also participate in international competitions to gain experience.







The horses are all thoroughly trained to follow commands. So far, the police have bred and increased the team’s strength to 109, and tamed 65 wild horses.






A police officer stands at attention as Ngan delivers a speech.





The parade sets off from one end of Doc Lap Street.






The mounted police parade in rows of five.






The parade ended at around 7:45 a.m. A police officer and his horse get some rest.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> *Call in the cavalry: Vietnam introduces mounted police force*
> 
> By *Giang Huy - Viet Tuan*
> Mon 6/8/2020, 05:06 pm (GMT+7)
> 
> *Vietnam's first mounted police battalion paraded in front of Hanoi's Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum Monday morning, prior to a parliamentary session.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The parade on Doc Lap Street, which bisects the mausoleum and the parliament, was witnessed by the National Assembly delegates and other officials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The parading battalion consisted of 60 horses and police officers, led by two white horses.
> 
> The mounted police force, which will operate under the Mobile Police Force Command of the Ministry of Public Security, was formed in early 2020. The force will directly train and utilize horses to fight crime, and take care of the team, including breeding new members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National Assembly chairwoman Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan receives the salute from a battalion officer as Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc and others watch. The parade began at around 7 a.m.
> 
> Ngan noted that despite the cavalry being a new entity in Vietnam, the Public Security Ministry and officers are resolved to overcome all challenges including insufficient experience and training, logistics and human resources.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The police officers leading the battalion salute as they pass the parliament building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police officers said the horses are in good health, resilient and capable of adapting to different situations. The force can be used for patrolling and controlling unruly demonstrations, especially in areas where normal vehicles cannot be used. The force will fight crime, patrol and engage in rescues in mountainous areas, as well as maintain security in cities. The cavalries could also transport weapons and food to remote areas, as well as participating in governmental ceremonies and receiving international heads of state. They would also participate in international competitions to gain experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The horses are all thoroughly trained to follow commands. So far, the police have bred and increased the team’s strength to 109, and tamed 65 wild horses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A police officer stands at attention as Ngan delivers a speech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The parade sets off from one end of Doc Lap Street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The mounted police parade in rows of five.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The parade ended at around 7:45 a.m. A police officer and his horse get some rest.


That's not a horse that's a pony.


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## Viet

Reashot Xigwin said:


> That's not a horse that's a pony.


Good
A bit small 
They should import horses from Mongolia or Europe.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viet said:


> Good
> A bit small
> They should import horses from Mongolia or Europe.


No, get one from the US they are much better & cheaper. European horses... Not so reliable from personal experience. 

I suggest a quarter or throughbreed if it's only for policing. 

Pony like that are only useful as pack animal.

That & glue... I just realize those are Hmong horses.


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> Good
> A bit small
> They should import horses from Mongolia or Europe.


Thats Mongol houses, bro. They r small, but strong and not easy to get panic like EU horses.



Reashot Xigwin said:


> No, get one from the US they are much better & cheaper. European horses... Not so reliable from personal experience.
> 
> I suggest a quarter or throughbreed if it's only for policing.
> 
> Pony like that are only useful as pack animal.
> 
> That & glue... I just realize those are Hmong horses.


Thats Mongol horse. Do Google, dude.


Image_





Mr. Long riding on Day 6.Credit...Sarah Farnsworth/The

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/sports/mongol-derby-winner.amp.html_

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## Viet

Viva_Viet said:


> Thats Mongol houses, bro. They r small, but strong and not easy to get panic like EU horses.
> 
> 
> Thats Mongol horse. Do Google, dude.
> 
> 
> Image_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Long riding on Day 6.Credit...Sarah Farnsworth/The
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/sports/mongol-derby-winner.amp.html_



big statue. horses that are deployed at German police forces.






Polizistinnen zu Pferd - und nicht nur Reiterinnen in Uniform: Wer bei der Reiterstaffel der Polizei arbeitet, hat zwar auch repräsentative Aufgaben, ist vorrangig aber weiter Polizeibeamter. Foto: Ralf Hirschberger

© Ralf Hirschberger


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## cochine

In the past ....


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## Viva_Viet

Viet said:


> big statue. horses that are deployed at German police forces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polizistinnen zu Pferd - und nicht nur Reiterinnen in Uniform: Wer bei der Reiterstaffel der Polizei arbeitet, hat zwar auch repräsentative Aufgaben, ist vorrangig aber weiter Polizeibeamter. Foto: Ralf Hirschberger
> 
> © Ralf Hirschberger


EU horses look good, but stupid and coward against the protest 

------
*London protests: Panic as loose police horse charges through crowds - officer injured*
_





A mounted officer fell off her horse which then charged away (Image: SKY)_
*A MOUNTED officer fell off her horse which then charged away in chaotic scenes as police clashed with protesters at an anti-racism rally in London today.*

*https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ex...-police-horse-injuries-black-lives-matter/amp*


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## Reashot Xigwin

Viva_Viet said:


> Thats Mongol houses, bro. They r small, but strong and not easy to get panic like EU horses.
> 
> 
> Thats Mongol horse. Do Google, dude.
> 
> 
> Image_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Long riding on Day 6.Credit...Sarah Farnsworth/The
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/sports/mongol-derby-winner.amp.html_



Sure mate...


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## Viet

From the web: Russia is open to exporting T14 Armata tanks. Vietnam is named along with Egypt, India, Belarus as natural customers.







Việt Nam được báo chí Nga nhận định là khách hàng tiềm năng của T-14 Armata


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## striver44

is there any plan by vietnam to buy more warships???


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## Viet

striver44 said:


> is there any plan by vietnam to buy more warships???


Most likely to happen considering chinese provocation

US defence secretary Mark Aspen condemns chinese harassment of the Philippines, sinking of a Viet fishing vessel. He announced sending 7 nuclear submarines into waters of SC sea. We call it Bien dong - East Sea.

https://www.nguoi-viet.com/viet-nam/my-dua-7-tau-ngam-nguyen-tu-toi-bien-dong/




Tàu ngầm nguyên tử USS Alexandria chuẩn bị rời căn cứ tại đảo Guam đến vùng Ấn Độ-Thái Bình Dương ngày 5 Tháng Năm, 2020. (Hình: US Navy)

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## Viet

Test firing RPO Shmel heat seeking armor piercing gun
The most feared infantry weapon 








Trang tin Quốc phòng Việt Nam của kênh truyền hình Quốc phòng Việt Nam trong một phóng sự mới đây bất ngờ đưa hình ảnh về súng áp nhiệt RPO-Shmel, vũ khí bộ binh được coi là đáng sợ nhất hiện nay do Nga sản xuất.
PrevNext


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## Viva_Viet

striver44 said:


> is there any plan by vietnam to buy more warships???


We can buy Russian nuke sub when we need. Russia is the best bro of VN.

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## Viet

Courtesy to Viet defence FB

T54M3, T90S


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## flowerfan2020

Viet said:


> Vietnam is invited to Rimpac 2020, a US led military exercise in the western Pacific. Unclear if Vietnam will send any warships or just observers.


where is the Vietnam battle ship? Sorry, I already trying very hard to find you powerful battle ship.


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## KAL-EL

This is supposed to be a serious thread about Vietnam defense


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## flowerfan2020

KAL-EL said:


> This is supposed to be a serious thread about Vietnam defense


Yeah, they mean to be serious.


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## Viet

flowerfan2020 said:


> where is the Vietnam battle ship? Sorry, I already trying very hard to find you powerful battle ship.


here some

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## Song Hong

Very very few female soldiers in Vietnam. 

Those female officers are from top families or top students.



Viet said:


> here some
> 
> 
> View attachment 644289
> 
> 
> View attachment 644290
> 
> 
> View attachment 644292
> 
> 
> View attachment 644294
> 
> 
> View attachment 644295
> 
> 
> View attachment 644297


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## flowerfan2020

Viet said:


> here some
> 
> 
> View attachment 644289
> 
> 
> View attachment 644290
> 
> 
> View attachment 644292
> 
> 
> View attachment 644294
> 
> 
> View attachment 644295
> 
> 
> View attachment 644297


Not bad but not good enough. They are too small and not powerful enough. They won't last on the fist strike by a strong navy.


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## Viet

flowerfan2020 said:


> Not bad but not good enough. They are too small and not powerful enough. They won't last on the fist strike by a strong navy.


Not that easy
Weaker navies can deploy different means.
War is not like you play on a Nintendo.


----------



## Viet

Vietnam artillerists will participate in the upcoming Army Games 2020 in Russia.





Bộ đội Việt Nam huấn luyện bắn cối

Anti tank gun 9M113








Bệ phóng, cơ cấu ngắm bắn và đạn tên lửa chống tăng 9M113 Konkurs





Tên lửa chống tăng 9M113 Konkurs lắp trên bệ phóng 9P135M. Ảnh: chinhphu.vn


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## warzone

flowerfan2020 said:


> Not bad but not good enough. They are too small and not powerful enough. They won't last on the fist strike by a strong navy.



Yo the not-the-brightest @flowerfan2020 So you think Big mouth PLA aircraft carriers would survive more than 1 week at the sea during a conflict… Every radars and surveillance aircrafts will pick those big fat targets in the middle of the sea and it will be a bye bye as soon as they leave their bases…





You think we are in WW1 and WW2, when every navies want those huge, heavy (70 000 tons) and powerful battleships like those Musashi and Yamamoto battleships ... and do you know how those slow fatties performed in combat, not-so-bright @flowerfan2020 ?) .

Goddamned, why Big mouth PLA don’t have you as military adviser... It will be so much easier for us...haha


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## Viva_Viet

warzone said:


> Yo the not-the-brightest @flowerfan2020 So you think Big mouth PLA aircraft carriers would survive more than 1 week at the sea during a conflict… Every radars and surveillance aircrafts will pick those big fat targets in the middle of the sea and it will be a bye bye as soon as they leave their bases…
> View attachment 645419
> 
> 
> You think we are in WW1 and WW2, when every navies want those huge, heavy (70 000 tons) and powerful battleships like those Musashi and Yamamoto battleships ... and do you know how those slow fatties performed in combat, not-so-bright @flowerfan2020 ?) .
> 
> Goddamned, why Big mouth PLA don’t have you as military adviser... It will be so much easier for us...haha


Hes false flagger, he cant speak & write Cnese fluently.

Hes in same false flaggers group wt Song Hong who cant write Vnese fluently.

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## Viet

*Vietnam launches third Damen-designed landing ship for navy*

by Ridzwan Rahmat Jun 25, 2020, 08:09 AM
Janes.com


Da Nang-based shipbuilder, Song Thu Corporation, has launched the third 57 m roll-on/roll-off (Ro-Ro) landing ship tank (LST) on order for the People’s Army of Vietnam...

Da Nang-based shipbuilder, Song Thu Corporation, has launched the third 57 m roll-on/roll-off (Ro-Ro) landing ship tank (LST) on order for the People’s Army of Vietnam (PAVN) Navy.






The third 57 m landing ship on order for the People’s Army of Vietnam Navy, seen here at its launch ceremony. (General Department of Defence Industry, Vietnam Ministry of Defence)


The vessel, which has been built to a proprietary Damen design, was launched on 22 June, according to a notice published by the Vietnamese defence ministry’s General Department of Defence Industry on the following day. It carries the pennant number 528.

According to information released by the department, the landing ship displaces 1,480 tonnes and has a top speed of 12 kt. It has an overall length of 57.27 m, and an overall beam of 12 m.

Janes also previously reported that the vessel can accommodate a complement of 16, and crew facilities include a commanding officer’s cabin, two officer‘s cabins, and seven bunks for other ranks on a twin-sharing basis.


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## Viet

Third landing ship 528 (photo : KienThuc)




First and second landing ship 526 and 527 (photo : KienThuc)


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## Viet

Pilot training 





Tiêm kích Su-30MK2 Không quân Việt Nam huấn luyện trên biển.



Flight academy





Học viên Học viện PK-KQ lên giảng đường. Ảnh: Infonet.


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## striver44

Viet said:


> Third landing ship 528 (photo : KienThuc)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First and second landing ship 526 and 527 (photo : KienThuc)


Very shallow deck...

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## Viet

Test firing A72 short range Anti aircraft missiles







Các xạ thủ tên lửa A-72 phòng không Việt Nam thực hành bắn đạn thật diệt mục tiêu.

Armor piercing 9M14 anti tank






Tên lửa chống tăng 9M14 Malyutka (AT-3 Sagger) do Việt Nam cải tiến




B72 anti tank guided rockets


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## congtubl

wow






What are they?


----------



## Viet

4x4 Pansir missile/gun truck


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## Barmaley

congtubl said:


> View attachment 649250
> 
> 
> wow
> 
> View attachment 649251
> 
> 
> What are they?



It's a cranes.

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## flowerfan2020

warzone said:


> Yo the not-the-brightest @flowerfan2020 So you think Big mouth PLA aircraft carriers would survive more than 1 week at the sea during a conflict… Every radars and surveillance aircrafts will pick those big fat targets in the middle of the sea and it will be a bye bye as soon as they leave their bases…
> View attachment 645419
> 
> 
> You think we are in WW1 and WW2, when every navies want those huge, heavy (70 000 tons) and powerful battleships like those Musashi and Yamamoto battleships ... and do you know how those slow fatties performed in combat, not-so-bright @flowerfan2020 ?) .
> 
> Goddamned, why Big mouth PLA don’t have you as military adviser... It will be so much easier for us...haha


A big mouth PLA has ability to sunk your small navy in one hour.


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## warzone

flowerfan2020 said:


> A big mouth PLA has ability to sunk your small navy in one hour.









HAHAHAHAHAHA big mouth @flowerfan2020 !!! So funny !!!Oh please do it right now and also sink Japanese and Taiwanese navies also.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!! You understand now why we call PLA BIG MOUTH, always threats and big words but ZERO action.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH always BLABLABLABLA like ladies talking (minus the big battle in 1989 against students )... The pride of Big mouth PLA aircrafts carriers will also be sink within days after leaving their bases HAHAHAHA BIG MOUTH @flowerfan2020 love big mouth PLA

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## Viet

Z111 weapon factory
Not too small
The place where the newest AK15, STV380 assault rifles are made.























STV380

















AK15























warzone said:


> View attachment 652234
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHA big mouth @flowerfan2020 !!! So funny !!!Oh please do it right now and also sink Japanese and Taiwanese navies also.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!! You understand now why we call PLA BIG MOUTH, always threats and big words but ZERO action.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH always BLABLABLABLA like ladies talking (minus the big battle in 1989 against students )... The pride of Big mouth PLA aircrafts carriers will also be sink within days after leaving their bases HAHAHAHA BIG MOUTH @flowerfan2020 love big mouth PLA


He is right. He can laugh on us because we are seen as weak.
We need more capital weapons as submarines to deter chinese aggression.


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## congtubl

2018: PTH85-VN18





2020

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## congtubl

Maybe su-3xx

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## Viet

congtubl said:


> View attachment 654653
> 
> 
> Maybe su-3xx


Another Su30 or Su35 fighter squadron would be nice.


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## Viet

The army stays on alert midst of multiple chinese naval exercises in the region.

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## Viet

Stv410 rifle







_

_

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## Figaro

Viet said:


> Another Su30 or Su35 fighter squadron would be nice.


Is Vietnam in any active talks to procure the Su-35?


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## Viet

Exercise

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## sahureka2

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-build-six-patrol-vessels-media-idUSKCN24T1J5
Vietnam agrees $348 million Japan loan to build six patrol vessels

https://dambiev.livejournal.com/1992899.html
On July 28, 2020 Vietnam signed with the Japanese shipbuilding company Mitsubishi Shipbuilding Co. (part of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) a contract for the construction of six 96-meter Kunigami-class patrol ships (in the title photo) with a displacement of 1,700 tons for the Vietnamese Coast Guard.

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## Viet

Figaro said:


> Is Vietnam in any active talks to procure the Su-35?


I think despite chinese threat the army will not buy big items in the times of crisis like this, midst of economic standstill because of coronavirus. We will focus on domestic weaponry manufacturing. Maybe in 1 or 2 years when the economy recovers, then more submarines, more surface warships and fighter jets on the agenda.


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## Nike

Viet said:


> I think despite chinese threat the army will not buy big items in the times of crisis like this, midst of economic standstill because of coronavirus. We will focus on domestic weaponry manufacturing. Maybe in 1 or 2 years when the economy recovers, then more submarines, more surface warships and fighter jets on the agenda.



You already taking Japanese loans for six large patrol ships though. And already in talk for 200 more T90 tank. Chinese threat is very real lately. In the region you need more power to handle China as not to become the burden like Malaysia and Philippines. Indonesia is in talk with France for 48 Rafale, six Scorpene class Submarine and up to 12 Gowind class Corvettes, taking proposal for 15 Austrian Eurofighter Typhoon, contract for two Itver Huitveld class Destroyer (with up to two more options), 8 Osprey Heavy tiltrotor Aircraft, contract through DCS for five C130J lift aircraft and in pending delivery for Six H225m caracal and 9 Bell412EPI, not to mention other smaller stuff like AShM, Gatling gun, ATGM like NLAW and Javelin. We are very seriously to consider Chinese threat even amid Covid19 dissaster.

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## Viet

Nike said:


> You already taking Japanese loans for six large patrol ships though. And already in talk for 200 more T90 tank. Chinese threat is very real lately. In the region you need more power to handle China as not to become the burden like Malaysia and Philippines. Indonesia is in talk with France for 48 Rafale, six Scorpene class Submarine and up to 12 Gowind class Corvettes, taking proposal for 15 Austrian Eurofighter Typhoon, contract for two Itver Huitveld class Destroyer (with up to two more options), 8 Osprey Heavy tiltrotor Aircraft, contract through DCS for five C130J lift aircraft and in pending delivery for Six H225m caracal and 9 Bell412EPI, not to mention other smaller stuff like AShM, Gatling gun, ATGM like NLAW and Javelin. We are very seriously to consider Chinese threat even amid Covid19 dissaster.


Wow that is a long shopping list!!!


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## mejikuhibiu

Vietnam not only strenghten navy but also your army too.. you have share border with china in land.. if war errupt they will attack you from land too

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## cochine

mejikuhibiu said:


> Vietnam not only strenghten navy but also your army too.. you have share border with china in land.. if war errupt they will attack you from land too



the last invasion is in 1979. in the next conflict reattack shall be done in land of enemy.


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## initial_d

what vietnam need is western made armament, france or american fighter jet, american attack helicopter, awacs and radar, warship and ASHM, for land forces it's okay buying it from russia like T-90ms and lots of Kornets ATGM


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## mejikuhibiu

initial_d said:


> what vietnam need is western made armament, france or american fighter jet, american attack helicopter, awacs and radar, warship and ASHM, for land forces it's okay buying it from russia like T-90ms and lots of Kornets ATGM


Maybe vietnam try for europe first.. they much more flexible rather than US


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## congtubl

sahureka2 said:


> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-build-six-patrol-vessels-media-idUSKCN24T1J5
> Vietnam agrees $348 million Japan loan to build six patrol vessels
> 
> https://dambiev.livejournal.com/1992899.html
> On July 28, 2020 Vietnam signed with the Japanese shipbuilding company Mitsubishi Shipbuilding Co. (part of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) a contract for the construction of six 96-meter Kunigami-class patrol ships (in the title photo) with a displacement of 1,700 tons for the Vietnamese Coast Guard.


Vietnam need smaller than that. TT-1500





6 ships from Japan Gov gave us

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## congtubl

But in Jica report, the vessel is long 79m, sothat it maybe ASO ship, 1000t.


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## Indos

When will Vietnam induct CN 235 MPA ? It will be very useful to monitor Vietnamese EEZ.

Senegal Airforce second CN 235 MPA is preparing to have first flight in PT Dirgantara Indonesia facility.


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## Nike

Indos said:


> When will Vietnam induct CN 235 MPA ? It will be very useful to monitor Vietnamese EEZ.
> 
> Senegal Airforce second CN 235 MPA is preparing to have first flight in PT Dirgantara Indonesia facility.



This one is pass flight tests and various functioning system tests that's why it had been painted with livery before being delivered to the customer.

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## Viet

Indos said:


> When will Vietnam induct CN 235 MPA ? It will be very useful to monitor Vietnamese EEZ.
> 
> Senegal Airforce second CN 235 MPA is preparing to have first flight in PT Dirgantara Indonesia facility.


Can you tell the capabilities, how much per bird and how much the operating cost?


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## Indos

Viet said:


> Can you tell the capabilities, how much per bird and how much the operating cost?



Endurance is 11 hours 20 minutes. You can check the capabilities in the link I have provided. There are also CN 235 ASW and Special Mission. The operating cost is quite low since it is a propeller plane. The price of CN 235 is starting at 25 million USD. CN 235 MPA will be more expensive of course.






https://www.indonesian-aerospace.com/aircraft/detail/22_cn235-220+mpa

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## Indos

@Viva_Viet Welcome back bro

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## congtubl

[QUOTE = "Indos, post: 12603900, member: 148143"] [USER = 40895] @Viva_Viet [/ USER] Chào mừng anh trở lại : chúc mừng:[/ QUOTE]
When will VN receive the 3rd nc-212i? Do you have this Pic, we has just only 8991, 8992 in 2018.

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## Indos

congtubl said:


> [QUOTE = "Indos, post: 12603900, member: 148143"] [USER = 40895] @Viva_Viet [/ USER] Chào mừng anh trở lại : chúc mừng:[/ QUOTE]
> When will VN receive the 3rd nc-212i? Do you have this Pic, we has just only 8991, 8992 in 2018.



I dont know whether there is still one NC 212 under construction in PTDI facility currently, as far as I know Vietnam has already taken all of 3 NC 212 and one of them is lost during Su 27/30 search and rescue operation. There is dangerous wind flow near the sea that I think become the main reason of the lost due to the pilot who may fly too low when the wind was strong. Sea bird use that wind flow for migration purposes. I saw it in National Geographic channel.


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## congtubl

Indos said:


> I dont know whether there is still one NC 212 under construction in PTDI facility currently, as far as I know Vietnam has already taken all of 3 NC 212 and one of them is lost during Su 27/30 search and rescue operation. There is dangerous wind flow near the sea that I think become the main reason of the lost due to the pilot who may fly too low when the wind was strong.


No, this is VCG not VAF
2011 we bought 3 Casa-212 from Spain.
2016, 3 from Indo NC-212i.


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## Indos

congtubl said:


> No, this is VCG not VAF
> 2011 we bought 3 Casa-212 from Spain.
> 2016, 3 from Indo NC-212i.



According to PTDI director, all of 3 NC 212i for Vietnam have been delivered in 2018

https://katadata.co.id/yuliawati/be...r-lima-pesawat-nc-212-ke-filipina-dan-vietnam

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## Viet

Courtesy to FB Vietdefense 

new desert style camo


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## Viet

T90 tank


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## Viet

New “made in Vietnam” STV rifles also good suitable for women hands

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## Viet

Tank traps

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## Viet

Time flies fast. It’s a while since the establishment of submarine fleet.


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## Viet

Another small transport vessel 120 ton for the navy


Length 35,06m, wide 6,90m, 2 máy x 750HP/máy; speed 11 hải lý/h. Tàu được vận hành bởi 12 thuyền viên; Tầm hoạt động 300 hải lý; Khả năng chịu sóng cấp 6 và gió cấp 8.


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## Viet

The 6 new Japanese built vessels for Vietnam coast guard appear to be Aso class.







a bit lighter but faster than current Vietnam built vessels - Damen class.







Tàu tuần tra của Cảnh sát biển Việt Nam.​

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## Viet

Israel army replaced in 2009 the US made M16 by the domestic made Tavor rifle.






Vietnam now follows suit with domestic manufacturing of Tavor.


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## Viet




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## flowerfan2020

TenLua said:


> CCP BACK THE **** UP OR GET SMACK THE **** UP. PUSSIES. FUCKING BACK THE **** UP.


Just reported you trolling. This post nothing about CCP. If you think you country is so tough no need you to cry like a bitxx here.


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## 21stCentury

Viet said:


> New “made in Vietnam” STV rifles also good suitable for women hands
> 
> 
> View attachment 659638
> 
> 
> View attachment 659639



Sexy Viet girls, nice rifles btw


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## IblinI

Viet said:


> Israel army replaced in 2009 the US made M16 by the domestic made Tavor rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vietnam now follows suit with domestic manufacturing of Tavor.


just passing by, but this camo is way too ugly for me to ignored.
here is our new camo.


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## Viet

IblinI said:


> just passing by, but this camo is way too ugly for me to ignored.
> here is our new camo.
> View attachment 682242
> 
> View attachment 682243
> 
> View attachment 682244


I agreed with you. Our camo will not win any beauty competition. The Marines have best camo though.











Interesting to note, other units as national guard use Tar21 assault rifles too.


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## Barmaley

The first Yak-130's for Vietnam in high level of manufactured readiness.

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## Journeyman




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## IblinI

Viet said:


> I agreed with you. Our camo will not win any beauty competition. The Marines have best camo though.
> View attachment 682443
> 
> View attachment 682447
> View attachment 682448
> 
> Interesting to note, other units as national guard use Tar21 assault rifles too.
> View attachment 682451
> View attachment 682452

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## Viva_Viet

IblinI said:


> just passing by, but this camo is way too ugly for me to ignored.
> here is our new camo.
> View attachment 682242
> 
> View attachment 682243
> 
> View attachment 682244


Actually this is special force, they wear uniform during parade and in peace time only, during war, they only wear underwear and use Mud for camouflage


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## IblinI

Viva_Viet said:


> Actually this is special force, they wear uniform during parade and in peace time only, during war, they only wear underwear and use Mud for camouflage
> 
> View attachment 688455


those are regular units in the photos which i post, maybe you need a bit refresh on what a morden day special force looked like.


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## Viva_Viet

IblinI said:


> those are regular units in the photos which i post, maybe you need a bit refresh on what a morden day special force looked like.


Im talking abt VN special force uniform, bro. They only wear underwear and camouflage by Mud during the war.


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## IblinI

Viva_Viet said:


> Im talking abt VN special force uniform, bro. They only wear underwear and camouflage by Mud during the war.


defintely not anymore, you need communication equips,battery, plate carrier amd many more...


----------



## Viva_Viet

IblinI said:


> defintely not anymore, you need communication equips,battery, plate carrier amd many more...


No, our special force is just like lonely wolf, they dont make any communication during the fight.Just simply make a plan and follow the plan to destroy the targets, thats all.

U think why VN special force can attack a heavy guarded US airbase in Thailand and damage even B-52 bombers if they r not better than US navy SEAL during VN war ??


----------



## sahureka2

The Vietnamese shipyard Sông Thu seems to be updating a Petya class frigate / project 159AE, the entire command superstructure is replaced with a modern design, do you have any other news on how it will look at the end of the works?
I remember that some years ago some drawings of a possible modernization were published, maybe one of those projects is being implemented?







a few years ago some drawings circulated, 





who knows if finished the work it will have a configuration of the armament similar to this one, but today the superstructure is already different from that drawing

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## Viva_Viet

sahureka2 said:


> The Vietnamese shipyard Sông Thu seems to be updating a Petya class frigate / project 159AE, the entire command superstructure is replaced with a modern design, do you have any other news on how it will look at the end of the works?
> I remember that some years ago some drawings of a possible modernization were published, maybe one of those projects is being implemented?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a few years ago some drawings circulated,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who knows if finished the work it will have a configuration of the armament similar to this one, but today the superstructure is already different from that drawing


Got some news for VN Petya here. Upgraded better radar system, better AAA system, mounted SAM,too.

Pls Google trans


















Việt Nam hiện đại hóa tàu săn ngầm Petya


Việt nam đang thực hiện chương trình hiện đại hóa tàu săn ngầm project 159 petya để các tàu này tiếp tục bảo vệ biển đảo đất nước.




m.baonghean.vn

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## sahureka2

observing the photo of the Petya in the shipyard and the drawings of the past on the hypothesis of modernization, I developed this photoshop of how it could be when the work is finished

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## sahureka2



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## sahureka2

Recalling the articles of a few years ago concerning the collaboration of India in the modernization of the 159-class Petya project, + today observing the structural changes carried out in the Da Nang shipyard, I tried to evaluate what India could offer for such modernization. Certainly these are just my hypotheses, and it is certain that the hulls have many years of navigation, but it would be interesting even just as an experience the realization of a single unit as a prototype, so to gain experience in making an ASW corvette made in Vietnam in the future.





then certainly instead of systems supplied by India they could be the Russian ones to have a standardization with the naval units of the Gepard or Molniya class as I had depicted in the previous drawings

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## IblinI

Viva_Viet said:


> No, our special force is just like lonely wolf, they dont make any communication during the fight.Just simply make a plan and follow the plan to destroy the targets, thats all.
> 
> U think why VN special force can attack a heavy guarded US airbase in Thailand and damage even B-52 bombers if they r not better than US navy SEAL during VN war ??


modern special warfare is not about human factor anymore, a huge support force is required to accomplish the mission, you don't just shoot your way out.

just tell me how is "naked vietnamese" going to communicate with airforce, comand center and mark the target for precision munition,etc...

Rus SSO in Syria is a great example.


----------



## Viet

*Video footage shows Vietnamese T-90S/SK MBTs fitted with Shtora-1 APS*
by Import Feeder May 14, 2020, 08:38 AM

Video footage released online on 12 May by the Vietnam National Defence television channel (QPVN) shows that at least some of the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) T-90S/SK...

Video footage released online on 12 May by the Vietnam National Defence television channel (QPVN) shows that at least some of the Vietnam People's Army (VPA) T-90S/SK main battle tanks (MBTs) acquired from Russia have been equipped with the Shtora-1 active protection system (APS).

The footage, which was part of a QPVN news programme, showed at least one T-90SK and two T-90S MBTs fitted with the Russian-made APS.

The second distinctive feature on the MBTs, which were shown being displayed at a military base alongside several other tanks and an armoured recovery vehicle, was the Kord 12.7 mm heavy machinegun (HMG) - instead of the organic NSVT 12.7 mm HMG - which was seen installed in a roof-top mount.






A screengrab from QPVN video footage released on 12 May showing VPA T-90S/SK MBTs equipped with the Shtora-1 active protection system.


The QPVN news report comes after the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) told _Jane’s_ in March 2019 that Moscow had completed the delivery of 64 T-90S/SK MBTs to Vietnam under a contract signed in 2016.

A representative of the Vietnam People’s Army (VPA) told _Janes_ at the time that the MBTs had been shipped in two large batches, each totalling “no fewer than 30 platforms”.

“The first batch was delivered last December [2018], while the second one arrived in Vietnam in late February [2019],” said the sources at the time, adding that the VPA received the MBTs equipped with Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour and “a turret-mounted missile countermeasures system”.

The vehicles are replacing outdated Chinese-made Type 59 and non-upgraded Soviet-era T-54 tanks, he added.


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## Viet




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## Viva_Viet

IblinI said:


> modern special warfare is not about human factor anymore, a huge support force is required to accomplish the mission, you don't just shoot your way out.
> 
> just tell me how is "naked vietnamese" going to communicate with airforce, comand center and mark the target for precision munition,etc...
> 
> Rus SSO in Syria is a great example.


We don't fight in far place like Russia-US, it's a waste cos once day, Russia-US will have to withdraw from Syria and gain Nothing. 

We only fight around our borders. For example, On 5 July 1984 during VN-CN conflicts, a team from the Vietnamese 821st Sapper Regiment destroyed the Cymbeline artillery- locating radar system making CN leader Deng so surprised and questioned why CN forces couldn't do the same ??


----------



## IblinI

Viva_Viet said:


> We don't fight in far place like Russia-US, it's a waste cos once day, Russia-US will have to withdraw from Syria and gain Nothing.
> 
> We only fight around our borders. For example, On 5 July 1984 during VN-CN conflicts, a team from the Vietnamese 821st Sapper Regiment destroyed the Cymbeline artillery- locating radar system making CN leader Deng so surprised and questioned why CN forces couldn't do the same ??
> View attachment 695775


it's not you don't, but you can't..again, just saying you need to updated your knowledge on morden special warfare..
the day of this has long gone, I'm out, bye.






PS: Laoshan is the place you really shouldn't talked about though.


----------



## Viva_Viet

IblinI said:


> it's not you don't, but you can't..again, just saying you need to updated your knowledge on morden special warfare..
> the day of this has long gone, I'm out, bye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Laoshan is the place you really shouldn't talked about though.


Ok,we can't, but we don't care cos we don't waste money fighting in far places while our "mud men" still can destroy CN radar at any time cos PLA still don't know how to detect our men


----------



## IblinI

Viva_Viet said:


> Ok,we can't, but we don't care


correction, "you don't care".


----------



## Viva_Viet

IblinI said:


> correction, "you don't care".


And PLA still don't know how to detect our mud men.

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## IblinI

Viva_Viet said:


> And PLA still don't know how to detect our mud men.


I thought we were having at least a decent conversation about special warfare, but anyway ,bye.

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## flowerfan2020

Viva_Viet said:


> And PLA still don't know how to detect our mud men.


That why I called Vietnam a 4th world country because even most of Africa 3rd world country already use 2020 updated weapon but you still proud of mud men.


----------



## Viet

IblinI said:


> it's not you don't, but you can't..again, just saying you need to updated your knowledge on morden special warfare..
> the day of this has long gone, I'm out, bye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Laoshan is the place you really shouldn't talked about though.


Honestly speaking putting jokes aside I think you are one most reasonable posters on this forum by far.
You deserve to be heard.


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## sahureka2

??

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## cochine

New jet for Vietnam airforce. There is Yak - 130 from Russia.



















Lựa chọn tuyệt vời của Không quân Việt Nam: Tiến thẳng lên hiện đại - Máy bay mới sắp về?


Khi đưa tin chuyến thăm gần đây của ông Shoigu tới KnAAZ, Izvestia và Russia 1 đồng loạt công bố hình ảnh đáng mong chờ về những chiến đấu cơ mới, rất hiện đại của KQ Việt Nam.




soha.vn

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## Viva_Viet

New set for VN soldiers, including exoskeleton


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## IblinI

@Viet


----------



## Paul2

Viet said:


> I like this toast below that reflects many things, so I would like to begin with it:
> 
> 
> _*"We are a school. We here are teachers, and students, and researchers. Many of us are in uniform with obligations to our defense and security establishments, but in the end we are a school with everything that entails&#8212;libraries, homework, computers, research, publications, and end-of-term grades. . . . We have this common understanding of the central importance of continuous learning, and that is what we should take as the central motivating force in our institutional relationship."*_
> 
> &#8212;Toast in honor of Vietnamese National Defense Academy Commandant General Vo Tien Trung offered by NDU President Vice Admiral Ann E. Rondeau, October 2011, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, DC.


I almost got a hear attack, I first thought it's Thatcher back from her grave.


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## cochine

The defense magazine Jane's reported on 15/2, the Vietnamese side has just ordered 12 Aero Vodochody L-39NG jet trainers from the Czech Republic.

The L-39 training aircraft currently used by Vietnam as a training jet is also capable of fighting no less than a light fighter.















Dòng máy bay huấn luyện Việt Nam có thể tấn công như cường kích


(Kiến Thức) - Loại máy bay huấn luyện L-39 hiện đang được Việt Nam sử dụng như một máy bay phản lực huấn luyện còn có khả năng tác chiến không thua kém gì một loại tiêm kích hạng nhẹ.




kienthuc.net.vn


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## cochine

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=475130050167888


----------



## Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen

Vietnam received the third division of missile systems K-300P "Bastion-P"









Похоже Вьетнам получил третий дивизион ракетных комплексов К-300П «Бастион-П»


Похоже Вьетнам получил третий дивизион ракетных комплексов К-300П Бастион-П. В новом репортаже вьетнамского телеканала QPVN рассказывается о подготовке боевых расчетов береговых подвижных ракетных комплексов К-300П Бастион-П во вновь…




dambiev.livejournal.com


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## Viet

Some vids

domestic made Stv380 assault rifle for the Infantry
penetrating 20cm concrete





Launch of a landing craft





Inside the biggest factory
Can probably make hundred thousands rifles per year including 25,000 Galil per year


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## Viet

Exercise


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## Paul2

Viet said:


> Some vids
> 
> domestic made Stv380 assault rifle for the Infantry
> penetrating 20cm concrete


That's a concrete block, not a solid concrete. 5.45 pew pew has no chances against real concrete.


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## flowerfan2020

Paul2 said:


> That's a concrete block, not a solid concrete. 5.45 pew pew has no chances against real concrete.


Don't take it too seriously. Viet just making a visual effect movies.


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## TenLua

ccp prolly own Viet Nam too so.......


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## warzone

Paul2 said:


> That's a concrete block, not a solid concrete. 5.45 pew pew has no chances against real concrete.



It's pretty impressive penetration for a small assault weapon. Those concrete blocks are common use to build houses and building around the world which is a good indication of penetration and damage. Nato ammo 5.56 mm will do less 1/4 damage with the same concrete blocks . To blow away a full heavy concrete block or bunch of sand bags, you will need a heavy machine gun like .50 caliber


flowerfan2020 said:


> Don't take it too seriously. Viet just making a visual effect movies.


Hey big mouth @flowerfan2020 , how big mouth PLA is doing? When big mouth PLA will invade Taiwan? Just like COVID 19 vaccine, I guess the Taiwanese are immune to big mouth PLA threats after more than 70 years of threats and big mouth talking. Better not doing any dumb move, because the world is just looking a reason to be united against big mouth PLA ... Remember the COVID???

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## Suika

A C-2 landed in Ho Chi Minh international airport a few weeks ago.

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## Viet



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## Viet

Peace Corp

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## Song Hong

Vietnam new local-made VCM-01 anti-ship cruise missile which is a development of the Vietnamese KCT-15, a customized version of the Russian-made Kh-35UE produced under license in Vietnam. It is believed to have a range of 300km.

That makes Vietnam the most powerful surface navy (excluding submarine) in SE Asia, surpassing Singapore.

In the event of naval battle involving shooting war of surface fleet (no air force, no submarine), Singapore navy will be sunk.

And Vietnam is able to make all these missiles herself, Singapore will run out of ammo in no time because she imports everything.

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## casual

Off topic but south Asia is in the middle of a covid surge. I urge all Vietnamese friends to protect themselves though masks, social distancing, and hand washing. Also please get vaccinated as soon as you can.

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## Viva_Viet

casual said:


> Off topic but south Asia is in the middle of a covid surge. I urge all Vietnamese friends to protect themselves though masks, social distancing, and hand washing. Also please get vaccinated as soon as you can.


Yes.Vietnam has extended its quarantine policy from 14 to 21 days for both foreign arrivals and those who come into contact with Covid-19 patients. We wont let Covid ruin our factories. 









Quarantine period extended to 21 days: Health minister


The COVID-19 quarantine period in Việt Nam has been extended to 21 days.



vietnamnews.vn

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## sahureka2

ex USCG John Midgett, second cutter Hamilton class donated to Vietnam already sails with new colors, flag and optical number 8021

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## sahureka2

According to information from marine monitoring site MarineTraffic, the Vietnam Coast Guard ship CSB 8021 left the US Coast Guard port in Seattle, Washington at 9:15 am on June 1, 2021 (11:15 pm GMT). Vietnam). headed to the Pacific Ocean to go to Vietnam.
https://thanhnien.vn/the-gioi/tau-canh-sat-bien-viet-nam-tai-my-da-khoi-hanh-ve-nuoc-1392711.html

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## Viet

Exercise

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## sahureka2

July 5th defense news video.
According to this screenshot, the Kh-35 Uran missiles have returned aboard a Pohang-class frigate


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## warzone

Viet said:


> Exercise
> 
> View attachment 759508
> View attachment 759509
> View attachment 759510
> View attachment 759511
> View attachment 759512
> View attachment 759513


On the 1st Picture, the good old Petya frigates and so glad they got the upgrade lately. It's scary to think that they were the backbone of VN navy not long ago (10 years exactly) until the Gepard frigates arrived and then the subs.

I always remember seeing a couple of them sitting idle in Ho Chi Minh port (before 2010) for a while and having sailors clothes hanging on cannons to dry ...haha

Thanks to big mouth PLA threats, those Petya are now just support fire ships and VN navy is on the way to build a formidable and respectable force. Again mucho gracias boca grande PLA !!!


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## sahureka2

Gepard class frigates, after 011 Dinh Tien Hoang, the new telescopic hangar was built on 015-Tran Hung Dao and 016-Quang Trung.
Probably the 012 Ly Thai To will have already received it too.

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## Viva_Viet

Song Hong said:


> Vietnam new local-made VCM-01 anti-ship cruise missile which is a development of the Vietnamese KCT-15, a customized version of the Russian-made Kh-35UE produced under license in Vietnam. It is believed to have a range of 300km.
> 
> That makes Vietnam the most powerful surface navy (excluding submarine) in SE Asia, surpassing Singapore.
> 
> In the event of naval battle involving shooting war of surface fleet (no air force, no submarine), Singapore navy will be sunk.
> 
> And Vietnam is able to make all these missiles herself, Singapore will run out of ammo in no time because she imports everything.


When we defeated Mongol invasion 3 times, SG was still just a fishing village. So, Pls don't compare VN military wt SG's one. I dont even think SG can still survive in the next 100 years


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## sahureka2

The Vietnamese frigate Quang Trung (016) during the Russian Navy Day Parade in Vladivostok.
photo Ildus Gilyazutdinov

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## sahureka2

sahureka2 said:


> The Vietnamese shipyard Sông Thu seems to be updating a Petya class frigate / project 159AE, the entire command superstructure is replaced with a modern design, do you have any other news on how it will look at the end of the works?
> I remember that some years ago some drawings of a possible modernization were published, maybe one of those projects is being implemented?



here a photo of the Petya class frigate during the modification works, indicated with arrows the new superstructures,





from a commercial satellite photo it looks like they eventually reused the same AK-726 turrets.





I ask if anyone has completed photos for this frigate
Thank


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## Song Hong

Too many Vietnamese forget what US did to them.

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## frequency

Viva_Viet said:


> Ok,we can't, but we don't care cos we don't waste money fighting in far places while our "mud men" still can destroy CN radar at any time cos PLA still don't know how to detect our men


what is vietnam "mud men" men?


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## Viva_Viet

frequency said:


> what is vietnam "mud men" men?







thats VN's sapper, they cover themselves with mud


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## frequency

Viva_Viet said:


> thats VN's sapper, they cover themselves with mud


I see, no one talks about these guys. Are they effective in battles?


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## Viva_Viet

frequency said:


> I see, no one talks about these guys. Are they effective in battles?


Bcs both mighty US-CN don't wanna admit that their troops are worse than VN's sappers.

Yes, they are nightmare in VN war against US and CN leader Deng had to admit :No PLA troops can do the same after VN sapper destroyed 10 million USD Cymbeline radar


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## Viet

Export to Jamaika
Patrol vessels Spa 4207

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## Viet

T-54M tanks with wide ranging main cannon


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## Viet

Out of domestic production
130mm self propelled howitzer

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## Viet

Domestic made AK rifle

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## Shahzad hanif

Indeed, Pakistan was founded on such a vision—the “Pakistani Dream”, a vision of a prosperous, equitable, tolerant, and dynamic society—which was at the heart of the Independence Movement, even if, over the years, its clarity has diminished.


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## flowerfan2020

TenLua said:


> Ok china i have had enough of you being a scared little pooch. You’re such a coward it makes me sick of it. Why the are you so full of cowards? You keep wanting the world to be scared of you but by now all that posturing noone even gives a damn anymore, we all know you’re just a country full of pussies and i say this to your chinese face all the time. Its annoying how scared and pussified your whole country is. Aomt no chinese ever intimidated anyone, you’re famouse for being cowards. Not racist just pointing out the obvious. Why are you people such pussies?


You need some medication, moron.


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## AViet

flowerfan2020 said:


> You need some medication, moron.



America and the damn liberal democracies worldwide are falling apart as fast as China is rising. No wonder why someone get mad.


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## flowerfan2020

warzone said:


> @flowerfan2020 Hey girl, why are you so sensitive when someone say something negative about big mouth PLA? PLA didn't do any major succesfull military operation in the last 60 years ( beside killing super unarmed students in 1989) to deserve respect and admiration. Until big mouth PLA stop making ``SCARY`` threats to all neighbors countries, everyone wait patiently for any military actions from tiger paper PLA and show their combat prowess... Because by making so many threats everyday, everybody are deaf now..LOL





warzone said:


> @flowerfan2020 Hey girl, why are you so sensitive when someone say something negative about big mouth PLA? PLA didn't do any major succesfull military operation in the last 60 years ( beside killing super unarmed students in 1989) to deserve respect and admiration. Until big mouth PLA stop making ``SCARY`` threats to all neighbors countries, everyone wait patiently for any military actions from tiger paper PLA and show their combat prowess... Because by making so many threats everyday, everybody are deaf now..LOL


Who is the butt hurt here? Stop bitxhing like a Puxxy.


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## flowerfan2020

warzone said:


> LOL ... Just like big mouth PLA you are talking a lot but zero action (go back killing unarmed students or stop doing treacheous attacks like PLA puXXies...korea 1950, india 1962, VN 1979 ect...) haha....Big mouth PLA threats Taiwan for 70 years...can we see some actions please ? So who are puXXies now?


Big mouth? PLA has much more ambition than just united Taiwan and time will see. The fact is your viet has most biggest mouth with no ability.


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